[04:37] <nuvolari> hi oom KilosU
[04:38] <nuvolari> oom is vroeg op!
[04:38] <KilosU> lo nuvolari
[04:38] <KilosU> dit gaan reen
[04:38] <nuvolari> dis reeds bewolk hierso
[04:38] <KilosU> jys hier
[04:38] <nuvolari> lol
[04:38] <KilosU> het jy die bed nat gemaak?
[04:38] <nuvolari> o, ek dog omdat oom so vroeg hier is
[04:38] <nuvolari> nee, darm nie oom
[04:38] <KilosU> lol nee
[04:38] <nuvolari> was net vroeg op
[04:39] <nuvolari> ek moet gaan klaarmaak
[04:39] <nuvolari> sien oom later!
[04:39] <nuvolari> hou die fort oom!
[04:39] <KilosU> ek maak het oop vir sus hierdie tyd elke dag maar gewoonlik is pc af
[04:39] <KilosU> was bang gisteraand om af te sit
[04:40] <nuvolari> hmm, hoekom oom?
[04:40] <KilosU> mooi loop seun
[04:40] <nuvolari> ek moet nog kyk of my updates klaargemaak het gister
[04:40] <nuvolari> dankie oom KilosU
[04:40] <KilosU> bang ek verloor iptables goed
[04:40] <nuvolari> ah
[04:40] <nuvolari> ok, ek is weg
[04:40] <nuvolari> oom moet firestarter gebruik
[04:40] <KilosU> k
[04:40] <nuvolari> dis baie maklik
[04:41] <KilosU> sjoe ek sukkel al weke met baie goed. gaan nou
[04:41] <KilosU> sien jou later
[04:41] <nuvolari> (ek praat uit konteks, ek weet nie waarvoor oom dit gebruik nie :P)
[04:41] <nuvolari> tot later
[04:41] <KilosU> om 2 pcs een 3g te gee
[04:41] <KilosU> sonder router
[05:04] <Kilos> Symmetria, you awake?
[05:45] <Kilos> hi DigiGram
[05:45] <DigiGram> morning Kilos
[05:45] <Kilos> queery ping
[05:45] <Kilos> you one of the young group
[05:45] <DigiGram> why whats up?
[05:45] <Kilos> how do i get whatsapp to work on ubuntu
[05:46] <DigiGram> if you find a way let me know :)
[05:46] <Kilos> lol do you use it
[05:46] <DigiGram> whatsapp only works if you have a sim card inserted, so you can't run it in an emulator
[05:47] <Kilos> i just know peeps leaving mxit to go whatsapp and dunno why
[05:47] <DigiGram> I would love it, but as far as I know, there is no clear way of making it work
[05:47] <Kilos> i google before and it was many megs of stuff to install for that emulator thing
[05:48] <DigiGram> whats nice about whatsapp is, it's almost the same as SMS's, you don't get network errors (or its just hidden at least), and you are logged in automaticly, and anybody with your number has you on whatsapp automatically
[05:49] <DigiGram> yeah, the android emulator is quite large, but it does not give you access to a phone number
[05:49] <Kilos> oh
[05:49] <DigiGram> and whatsapp needs that. You can't even register another number on your phone
[05:50] <DigiGram> during setup they send an sms to your phone that your phone needs to auto detect
[05:51] <Kilos> oh so you gotta start from a fone
[05:52] <Kilos> same as mxit used to be before evo
[05:52] <DigiGram> almost yeah
[05:52] <DigiGram> but mxit uses jabber, so you could connect with other clients
[05:52] <DigiGram> I still do
[05:53] <Kilos> sons chick has whatsapp on her windows pc, so i will keep looking, there must be linux way too
[05:56] <DigiGram> if she can tell you what app she uses, I'll figure it out for ubuntu
[05:57] <Kilos> ok i will get hold of her via mail because since the whatsapp thing she never mxits no more
[05:57] <Kilos> stupid woman
[05:57] <DigiGram> hehe
[05:57] <DigiGram> well let me know, then I'll figure it for us
[05:57] <Kilos> she said though that she couldnt use fone while on pc using it
[05:58] <Kilos> cool
[05:59] <DigiGram> maybe she just use VNC to access the phone from pc
[06:00] <Kilos> Maaz, google  whatsapp from PC
[06:00] <Maaz> Kilos: "How to Install Whatsapp on PC" http://www.ruchirablog.com/install-whatsapp-pc/ :: "WhatsApp on PC | How to get Whatsapp on your personal computer" http://whatsapponpc.com/ :: "Whatsapp Messenger on your Windows PC [How To]" http://www.theandroidsoul.com/how-to-use-whatsapp-messenger-on-your-windows-pc/ :: "How to Install WHATSAPP on PC [2012] - YouTube"
[06:00] <Maaz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd6EINMlygg :: "How to WhatsApp for PC 100% free Guide [WORKI…
[06:01] <Kilos> she is a dodo on a pc
[06:04] <Kilos> she wouldnt know about vnc
[06:05] <DigiGram> hehe
[06:05] <DigiGram> maybe used a guide
[06:05] <DigiGram> I will check those vid's later
[06:05] <Kilos> np
[06:13] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday
[06:14] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[06:14] <maiatoday> thanks everyone for doing the meeting last night
[06:14] <maiatoday> I fell asleep and then woke up when queery pinged me :(
[06:15] <Kilos> maiatoday, are you ordering the cd's?
[06:15] <maiatoday> or let me rephrase, when I woke up I saw his ping and it was too late
[06:15] <Kilos> lol np girl
[06:15] <maiatoday> I have already ordered the CDS
[06:15] <maiatoday> they are DVDs this time
[06:15] <Kilos> youre a star
[06:16] <maiatoday> also yesterday I had a chat or two with Kerbero about the release party
[06:16] <Kilos> yeah we heard 12.10 is too big for cd
[06:16] <maiatoday> nothing finalised yet
[06:16] <Kilos> great
[06:17] <Kilos> when finalised let not_found know please
[06:17] <maiatoday> ok cool
[06:17] <maiatoday> I will also blog about the parties soon I hope
[06:17] <Kilos> he is doing the reports
[06:17] <Kilos> dunno if you were here when he offered
[06:18] <maiatoday> thanks not_found for doing the reports
[06:18] <maiatoday> every bit helps
[06:18] <maiatoday> our re-approval is in dec I think
[06:18] <Kilos> ah
[06:19] <maiatoday> but we have bee keeping track of things so it shouldn't be too hard to put the web page together for re-approval
[06:19] <Kilos> nice
[06:19] <Kilos> we lost without you
[06:20] <maiatoday> :) thanks, but you know, everybody is doing a great job
[06:20] <maiatoday> the meetings get scheduled, the reports get done
[06:20] <maiatoday> the twitter feed gets updated
[06:21] <maiatoday> with these basic things in place we can do more exciting things too
[06:21] <Kilos> hopefully yeah
[06:21] <maiatoday> and it's more fun if more people help out
[06:21] <Kilos> hows all your stuff doing girl?
[06:21] <Kilos> you winning at least?
[06:21] <maiatoday> so I feel bad for not being around but on the flip side I think it is a good thing
[06:22] <maiatoday> my studies are finished now, I passed and everything
[06:22] <Kilos> yeah spreading the workload
[06:22] <Kilos> well done
[06:22] <maiatoday> from that though I have some projects I have to do which is eating my time
[06:22] <maiatoday> ty
[06:22] <maiatoday> also 2 day jobs hehe, granted they are both only 3 days a week but it adds yp
[06:22] <maiatoday> s/yp/up
[06:23] <Kilos> hi SmilyBorg
[06:23] <SmilyBorg> Hi there
[06:23] <maiatoday> hi SMilyBorg, I saw you queery's post to the loco website had some problems, are they sorted out now?
[06:23] <Kilos> sjoe maiatoday dont burn yourself out
[06:24] <SmilyBorg> sorry that I didn't make it to the meeting last night. had a bit of a bad spell
[06:24] <Kilos> aw np SmilyBorg
[06:24] <maiatoday> Kilos, hopefully I'm on fire not burning out
[06:24] <Kilos> you're forgiven
[06:24] <Kilos> hehe
[06:29] <Kilos> maiatoday, how you getting aroung the customs guys?
[06:29] <SmilyBorg> I think it's sorted. Everyone's explanation of what happened makes sense, and apparently the loco site will be updated with the correct info
[06:30] <maiatoday> ok well just ping me or fix the loco site if there is still a problem SmilyBorg
[06:30] <maiatoday> Kilos, dunno, we'll have to see what they write on the invoice. Ususally if it isn't a lot of money I just pay it
[06:30] <Kilos> ai
[06:31] <maiatoday> biggest issue is it delays things by months sometimes
[06:31] <Kilos> they must make it like 2$ or something
[06:31] <Kilos> yeah they are a pain
[06:31] <maiatoday> well the package is like 8 kg so they can't really make it 2$
[06:32] <maiatoday> if they say something like marketing material or flyers it helps
[06:32] <maiatoday> but if they say CDs it gets stopped
[06:32] <maiatoday> I'll just deal with it when it gets here
[06:33] <Kilos> do you have a contact at canonical you can explain nicely to
[06:33] <maiatoday> hmm no not really, I mean there is a contact to track the package but it is part of a bigger distribution so you can't really track it before that
[06:34] <maiatoday> thing is if they would just tell me how much the customs is early and not make it stuck while they decide then I would actually prefer to pay the customs to get the DVDs out quicker
[06:34] <Kilos> no i mean to explain what to say is in the package
[06:35] <maiatoday> no not really
[06:35] <Kilos> someone must have
[06:35] <Kilos> drussell, you here
[06:35] <Kilos> ?
[06:36] <Kilos> he might have a contact aqs he works for them i think
[07:04] <Kilos> hi jrgns
[07:04] <Kilos> sjoe
[07:04] <Kilos> peer at it again
[07:42] <superfly> hi Vince-0_
[07:42] <Vince-0_> haai
[07:43] <superfly> Vince-0_: I see you found me on G+
[07:43] <Vince-0_> I did -
[08:00] <Kilos> hi superfly Vince-0
[08:01] <superfly> morning oom Kilos
[08:01]  * Kilos tries a reboot to see if them iptable things will still work
[08:30] <Kilos> bad move rebooting
[08:32] <SmilyBorg> Does anyone know anything about http://za.archive.ubuntu.com/ being unresponsive?
[08:32] <Kilos> yes i get nothing either SmilyBorg
[08:33] <SmilyBorg> arg, and just when I need an app
[08:33] <Kilos> maybe they down
[08:33] <Kilos> change to nother repo
[08:33] <SmilyBorg> can traceroute to them, so maybe just down for maintainance
[08:33] <SmilyBorg> ya, will do
[08:42] <Vince-0> Haai Kilos
[08:42] <Kilos> hehe
[08:42] <Vince-0> Hi SmilyBorg
[08:43] <SmilyBorg> hey Vince-0
[08:52] <Kilos> w000 superfly just running them 3 commands and pc2 connects
[08:52] <Kilos> after a reboot
[08:52]  * Kilos dances a jig
[08:53] <DigiGram> I really need to decide on a distro and stick to it :)
[08:54] <Kilos> lol
[08:54] <superfly> great stuff Kilos
[08:54] <Kilos> ty for the help superfly
[08:54] <superfly> SmilyBorg: don't bother with that, use UFS's mirror instead
[08:54] <superfly> Kilos: you're welcome
[08:54] <DigiGram> Hopefully my new netbook will support a newer ubuntu or mint at least
[08:55] <Kilos> DigiGram, you like unity?
[08:55] <superfly> DigiGram: what netbook is that?
[08:55] <SmilyBorg> last I checked we have 8 confirmed ad 5 maybes for saturday :-)
[08:55] <DigiGram> Kilos, not at all
[08:55] <SmilyBorg> superfly: UFS?
[08:55] <Kilos> and kde?
[08:55] <DigiGram> and superfly I still need to shop for one
[08:55] <Kilos> good news that SmilyBorg
[08:55] <DigiGram> http://mirror.ufs.ac.za/
[08:55] <SmilyBorg> ya :-)
[08:56] <DigiGram> I love KDE, but my laptop is to old for KDE to work nice, so I use LXDE or MATE
[08:56] <SmilyBorg> thanks guys. just used the main servers. was trying to get prepaid-manager-applet installed
[08:56] <SmilyBorg> now I need to figure how to get it to retrieve a balance on 8ta
[08:56] <Kilos> i installed mate again this morning. hard work unity
[08:57] <superfly> DigiGram: too old? I find that strange
[08:57] <charlvn> ohayo gozaimas
[08:57] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on
[08:57]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[08:57] <superfly> DigiGram: KDE handles no 3D so much better than Unity tand Gnome Shell
[08:57] <charlvn> good meeting yesterday
[08:57] <DigiGram> well, KDE does work, but I have to sacrifice a lot of speed
[08:58] <superfly> DigiGram: I've never noticed that, I've run KDE on less than I've run Unity or Gnome
[08:58] <superfly> and it has run better
[08:58] <DigiGram> Laptop is a celeron made for Vista
[08:58] <tonberryE352> acquire ssd
[08:58] <tonberryE352> find seatbelt
[08:58] <DigiGram> its funny, KDE gives me problems on my PC and laptop, but at work it was great
[08:59] <superfly> DigiGram: what graphics card?
[08:59] <Vince-0> im using cinnamon
[08:59] <DigiGram> no idea superfly
[08:59] <SmilyBorg> the new unity in 12.10 works gret without 3d aceleration
[08:59] <DigiGram> I haven't tried cinnamon Vince-0, maybe I should set a VM to test it before I format
[09:01] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn!
[09:02] <charlvn> Maaz: thanks
[09:02] <Maaz> charlvn: Sure
[09:04] <DigiGram> let me get a clean USB to install MATE and try that a bit, this LXDE is good, but I want moar
[09:05] <charlvn> oh wow, the mate desktop has the nyan cat in the about screen?!
[09:05] <charlvn> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Mate_Desktop_Ubuntu.png
[09:07] <Kilos> i like mate
[09:07] <Kilos> knocks the socks off unity
[09:08] <charlvn> Kilos: i'm installing it right now :)
[09:09] <DigiGram> mmm, now just to find a USB drive I can format
[09:11] <Vince-0> DigiGram - Ubuntu 12.04 with Cinnamon and AWN launcher
[09:11] <Vince-0> dual screen is a bit buggy but ees ok
[09:11] <DigiGram> does it use xrandr for dual screen?
[09:12] <Vince-0> ow I don't know
[09:12] <Vince-0> its just the notifications that doen't work well with a second screen attached
[09:12] <DigiGram> I'll install Mint MATE and have a look
[09:13] <charlvn> oooh mate looks old :(
[09:14] <charlvn> and i don't even get the nyan cat in the about screen
[09:14]  * zeref YaaawwwnnNs
[09:14] <DigiGram> I'm not into the too flashy stuff, I'll rather have something that works with my down-to-earth equipment
[09:15] <charlvn> that's strange, the screenshot on the wikipedia is from mate 1.1 and mine is mate 1.4.0
[09:15] <charlvn> DigiGram: in principle, i'm not either, but ths does feel like going back a few years :)
[09:16] <DigiGram> true, but most of my time is spent in terminal, so I don't mind to much
[09:16] <charlvn> took a screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/NURM9.jpg
[09:16] <charlvn> DigiGram: same here, i use mutt for mail and irssi for irc, but still :)
[09:17] <charlvn> once again, i find it strange that i have a "floppy drive" device, even though my VM has none
[09:17] <DigiGram> just get some themes then hehe
[09:18] <charlvn> ok now to try cinnamon ;)
[09:19] <DigiGram> let me know what you think, I'm backing up so long
[09:20] <DigiGram> charlvn, where did you get that about screen
[09:21] <Kilos> you can get help with mate at #mate
[09:21] <charlvn> DigiGram: from the wikipedia
[09:21] <DigiGram> oh okay
[09:22] <charlvn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_(desktop_environment)
[09:22] <DigiGram> because mine looks much different
[09:22] <DigiGram> might be because I have MINT installed with MATE
[09:22] <charlvn> ah
[09:22] <charlvn> no i installed mate on top of ubuntu 12.04
[09:23] <DigiGram> oh okay
[09:23] <charlvn> ooh, cinnamon is more my style
[09:24] <charlvn> made another screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/Ewo3h.jpg
[09:27] <tonberryE352> a civil discussion about desktop environments
[09:27] <tonberryE352> not something you see every day
[09:27] <DigiGram> hahaha yeah Tonberry
[09:27] <Kilos> hehe
[09:27] <DigiGram> normally its more of an argument
[09:27] <Kilos> we dont fight or be nasty here
[09:27] <Kilos> this is a real community
[09:29] <DigiGram> cinnamon actually does look good
[09:32] <charlvn> me gusta, i think cinnamon is what i have been looking for
[09:32] <charlvn> i have this runnning inside a vm now on my desktop but i might even install it on my laptop later
[09:33] <charlvn> i actually wanna try it inside mint now
[09:34] <DigiGram> yeah maybe I should download mint cinnamon first to see if I like it
[09:35] <charlvn> yeah i first installed the ppa on ubuntu 12.04 but am booting mint cinnamon 13 now inside a different vm
[09:36] <DigiGram> I have mint mate running in a vm for quite a while now
[09:36] <charlvn> lemme try that too
[09:37] <charlvn> strange, mint cinnamon looks a heck of a lot different
[09:38] <DigiGram> yeah, my mint mate looks much better than your screenshot
[09:39] <charlvn> lemme just install it first and add the vmware drivers because it's impossible on this live cd
[09:40] <superfly> I just find gtk and gnome irritating in general... it seems to be aimed at the "I don't know how to use a computer" crowd
[09:41] <charlvn> superfly: it's probably true, to some extent, kde i feel has much more features
[09:42] <DigiGram> will try KDE on the netbook. the new ones packs a better punch than my laptop anycase
[09:43] <Kilos> lol
[09:45] <superfly> DigiGram: I have a Toshiba netbook which is very awesome
[09:45] <DigiGram> I'll see what my budget allows
[09:46] <superfly> DigiGram: it was around R3k when I compared prices
[09:46] <DigiGram> it should be small, good battery life, and should run the newest version of ubuntu/mint/whatever
[09:46] <DigiGram> R3k is around what I'll spend I think
[09:48] <superfly> nb 505 I think it is
[10:04] <charlvn> my mint cinnamon looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/h9QqM.png
[10:04] <charlvn> does that make sense?
[10:05] <charlvn> i downloaded linuxmint-13-cinnamon-dvd-64bit.iso
[10:05] <DigiGram> for me mint mate looks better
[10:05] <charlvn> probably, i will try that next, already got the iso here
[10:05] <charlvn> but first i go on lunch... bbl
[10:05] <DigiGram> enjoy
[10:08] <DigiGram> installer keeps crashing, seems to me I'll need to burn the DVD
[10:24] <Squirm> DigiGram: I'm usuing mate
[10:24] <Squirm> it's good
[10:25] <Squirm> actually. it looks like charlvn :P maybe it's cinnamon
[10:26] <DigiGram> Trying to get the installer working now
[10:26] <Squirm> write it to a flash drive and boot from that ^^
[10:27] <DigiGram> from USB (created with YUMI) it keeps on crashing
[10:27] <Squirm> ah
[10:27] <Squirm> I just use dd these days
[10:28] <Squirm> dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/device bs=1M
[10:28] <DigiGram> and then it is bootable?
[10:28] <Squirm> where of is the actual device, not a partition. do say /dev/sdb NOT /dev/sdb1
[10:28] <DigiGram> would've saved me some time
[10:28] <Squirm> s/do/so
[10:28] <DigiGram> yeah I understand
[10:28] <Squirm> it makes it bootable
[10:29] <DigiGram> what I do like about YUMI in windows though is it helps you to add multiple ISO's to your USB
[10:30] <Squirm> yes, that's the only time I've used yumi
[10:30] <Squirm> I think I used it through wine
[10:30] <Squirm> otherwise I used to use unetbootin
[10:30] <Squirm> SmilyBorg: I like your mailing list signature on relativity
[10:30] <SmilyBorg> :-) thanks
[10:31] <SmilyBorg> thats actualy my personal mail signature
[10:31] <Squirm> I figured. should have worded my sentence differently
[10:31] <Squirm> :P
[10:31] <SmilyBorg> hehe, its ok
[10:47] <charlvn> DigiGram: which installer keeps crashing?
[10:48] <DigiGram> when I run MINT MATE x64 as live USB, the install now installer crashes each time it asks for country (before I input anything)
[10:48] <charlvn> wow that's irritating
[10:49] <charlvn> but i have had issues like that before
[10:49] <DigiGram> but I've burned the DVD before Squirm told me dd would've worked
[10:49] <charlvn> it could indeed be because you're booting from usb
[10:49] <charlvn> *might* have worked ;)
[10:49] <DigiGram> okay yeah *might*
[10:49] <DigiGram> will test it another day
[10:49] <charlvn> i also often try to do it in that way but i have had mixed results
[10:49] <DigiGram> for now, the DVD actually worked
[10:50] <charlvn> ah great
[10:50] <charlvn> the traditional way is still the safest way
[10:52] <charlvn> i normally do it by 1) formatting the usb 2) mounting both the iso and the usb device 3) rsync -a the files 4) rename isolinux to syslinux 5) unmount 6) install the syslinux boot loader
[10:52] <charlvn> i have had very good results with that
[10:52] <charlvn> at least when it comes to ubuntu, other distro's i've also had mixed results\
[10:53] <charlvn> but i even managed to install ubuntu on my old macbook pro 8,1 using that technique
[10:53] <charlvn> and i couldn't even get that to boot ubuntu from the cd
[10:54] <charlvn> here's the script i wrote back then: https://github.com/ushahidi/Ubuntu_MacBook_Pro_8.1/blob/master/create.sh
[10:54] <charlvn> but it includes some wireless driver stuff you need after the install
[10:56] <Kilos> what about startup disk creator
[10:56] <Kilos> made my kubuntu work first time
[10:56] <charlvn> had mixed results with that too but usually works for me as well
[10:57] <Kilos> but did it from maverick
[10:57] <charlvn> but then you need ubuntu to start off with
[10:57] <charlvn> so not good for a first time install
[10:57] <Kilos> well duh
[10:57] <charlvn> :)
[10:57] <charlvn> the other day i was helping someone on #ubuntu-nl but he was on windows so he needed to do something else
[10:57] <Kilos> you guys should always have one ubuntu os inna pocket
[10:57] <Squirm> I haven't had an issue with that dd command I pasted
[10:58] <charlvn> us yes :P but not everyone is us
[10:58] <Squirm> yet
[10:58] <charlvn> Squirm: depends on the distro
[10:58] <charlvn> some distro's come with "hyrid iso" images which also works on flash drives
[10:59] <charlvn> but, that said, some older computers don't work with them regardless
[10:59] <charlvn> it depends on the bios
[10:59] <charlvn> for example, to install debian on my somewhat older (5 years old or so) fujitsu-siemens, i need to use the .img usb-hdd images
[11:00] <charlvn> the hybrid iso images don't work with the bios
[11:01] <Kilos> ai no usb-zip
[11:01] <charlvn> Kilos: usb-zip? you mean old zip drives?
[11:01] <Kilos> hey jrgns you like a yoyo today
[11:01] <Kilos> no in bios the option to boot from usb-zip
[11:02] <charlvn> interesting
[11:02] <charlvn> i assume it doesn't refer to the compression format
[11:02] <Kilos> thats what i used the other usb options didnt work
[11:02] <charlvn> hmmmm
[11:02] <charlvn> weird
[11:02] <charlvn> but interesting
[11:02] <Kilos> lol
[11:02] <Kilos> everything weird here
[11:02] <charlvn> lol
[11:03] <Kilos> but we get there in the end
[11:03] <charlvn> weird is the new normal when it comes to computers :P
[11:03] <charlvn> it's actually weird when nothing is weird
[11:03] <jrgns> hey, yes, soz, freakin network issues
[11:03] <jrgns> seems to be sorted for now
[11:03] <Kilos> 3 weeks or more to get 2 pcs using 3g
[11:04] <Kilos> thats good jrgns network isuues
[11:04] <Kilos> sjoe
[11:04] <charlvn> more like network chaos :)
[11:05] <jrgns> hehe
[11:08] <charlvn> ok installing mint mate now
[11:16] <superfly> it seems part of Cape Town is without ADSL
[11:16] <superfly> we have net here at work, but my wife has none at home
[11:19] <charlvn> a default install from linuxmint-13-mate-dvd-64bit.iso (+ vmware drivers) gives me this: http://i.imgur.com/rExx1.png
[11:20] <charlvn> conclusion: cinnamon looks sexy on ubuntu but not on mint and mate looks sexy on mint but not on ubuntu
[11:20] <charlvn> that's going completely from the default configuration - obviously that can be changed drastically...
[11:21] <charlvn> the default configurations on the various distro's are also all just configurations at the end of the day
[12:08] <charlvn> here's another distro that has ubuntu-based mate/cinnamon desktops:
[12:08] <charlvn> http://www.snowlinux.de/blog/380-snowlinux-2-qcreamq-mate-released\
[12:08] <charlvn> http://www.snowlinux.de/blog/413-snowlinux-2-qcreamq-cinnamon-released
[13:58] <inetpro> yikes!
[13:58] <inetpro> good mornings
[13:58] <inetpro> you guys talk a lot today
[14:04] <superfly> afternoon inetpro
[14:33] <Kilos> lol lo inetpro
[15:21] <Kilos> queery have you figured a way to use whatsapp on ubuntu?
[15:22] <Kilos> or you also only got on fone
[15:47] <hubx> hi there
[15:56] <magespawn> Good evening all
[15:56] <Vince-0> SUp
[15:58] <magespawn> Hey Vince-0
[15:58] <Vince-0> watching Tears of Steel trailor
[15:59] <Vince-0> made using Blender
[16:00] <magespawn> Sounds cool
[16:06] <Kilos> hey magespawn
[16:06] <Kilos> yo not_found
[16:06] <not_found> Uncle Kilos , alo
[16:07] <not_found> Question (one I have asked countless times)... What bot is Maaz again (I need to set up a bot for IRC meeting tomorrow night) and all I know is off supybot with a plugin?!!?
[16:08] <Kilos> ibid not_found
[16:08] <not_found> thanks uncle Kilos ... will have a quick look. not much time to learn its ins and outs however :p
[16:08] <Kilos> the daily build works better if you can get it from tumbleweed
[16:08] <Kilos> i lost link with all installs
[16:09] <Kilos> i will help you
[16:09] <Kilos> but not xchat sound on mate here
[16:09] <superfly> not_found: it's dea simple
[16:09] <Kilos> i forgot how i fixed it last time
[16:09] <superfly> Kilos: i think you need to give up on that
[16:09] <Kilos> lol
[16:10] <Kilos> and go unity
[16:10] <Kilos> ?
[16:10] <not_found> k superfly , will have a quick look and start crying on channel when it all goes pear shaped ;)
[16:10] <Kilos> or kde without sound
[16:10] <not_found> why KDE no sound:
[16:10] <not_found> ?
[16:10] <Kilos> sudo aptitude install ibid not_found
[16:10] <not_found> Oh and there is a very cool qt based interface which name I can't remember now :/
[16:10] <Kilos> only in quassel and xchat
[16:11] <Kilos> same on mate and kde
[16:12] <Kilos> pidgin and everything else sound works
[16:12] <not_found> very odd
[16:12] <not_found> why do I always have to edit bash.bashrc for completion since 11.10?! grrr
[16:12] <Kilos> i think its unity trying to snag me to stay with it
[16:13] <not_found> well they going to have to do major work on Unity to make it faster because it is killing Ubuntu for gaming at the moment I heard
[16:13] <Kilos> have you installed ibid?
[16:14] <Kilos> then run ibid-setup
[16:14] <not_found> busy installioong
[16:15] <Kilos> lol
[16:16] <not_found> I don't know the answer :(
[16:16] <not_found> this is hard
[16:16] <Kilos> what answer?
[16:17] <magespawn> Hey Kilos
[16:18] <not_found> What would you like to call your bot?
[16:18] <Kilos> anything man
[16:18] <Kilos> Mine is QP magespawn s is GC
[16:19] <Tonberry> alice or bob
[16:19] <Kilos> ya
[16:19] <magespawn> Vince-0: just watched the trailer too, very cool
[16:19] <not_found> To some people sarcasm is merely a word starting with an S...
[16:19] <Kilos> hehe
[16:21] <not_found> ok all set up...
[16:21] <not_found> now to run and test it
[16:21] <Kilos> just type in ibid and enter
[16:21] <magespawn> http://mango.blender.org
[16:22] <not_found> wow... that is many many errors
[16:22] <not_found> but it is in channel
[16:22] <magespawn> Here?
[16:22] <Kilos> ok now tell it auth nick
[16:22] <Kilos> youre nick
[16:23] <magespawn> Which channel guys?
[16:23] <Kilos> there by him for a meeting magespawn
[16:24] <Kilos> his locals
[16:24] <magespawn> Oh, okay
[16:24] <not_found> #ubuntu-ae
[16:24] <smile4> I'm young! :D
[16:25] <smile4> not_found: whats that :)
[16:25] <not_found> how do I auth if I am using another nick than the one I specified
[16:26] <smile4>  /ns identify yourregisterednick pass
[16:26] <Kilos> wont work
[16:26] <smile4> :)
[16:26] <smile4> it does, Kilos
[16:26] <Kilos> ah
[16:27] <Kilos> i had to treat my cow with kid gloves
[16:27] <smile4> I use it as an auto-perform action :p
[16:27] <not_found> I am already identified as the right nick... the bot doesn't want to auth me howver
[16:28] <Kilos> then you gotta give the new nick permissions
[16:28] <not_found> that is silly :/
[16:28] <Kilos> it stops others messing with it
[16:28] <Kilos> apart from basics
[16:29] <nlsthzn> wonder if the other admin things are working when my nick not the same
[16:29] <Kilos> auth admin
[16:29] <Kilos> auth sysadmin
[16:29] <Kilos> auth everything
[16:29] <Kilos> hehe
[16:29]  * not_found needs a quick reference guide
[16:29] <magespawn> It controls the auth through nickserv, i think
[16:30] <not_found> didn't want to auth me until I changed my nick
[16:30] <Kilos> ya they cheeky
[16:30] <not_found> the meeting commands, built in or need another plugin?
[16:31] <Kilos> auth plugins
[16:31] <not_found> :/
[16:31] <Kilos> auth meetings
[16:31] <Kilos> inetpro, said you had to do something there
[16:31] <Kilos> dunno what
[16:32] <Kilos> whats you mail addy
[16:32] <Kilos> will send my list of commands etc
[16:32] <not_found> same as my normal irc nick + gmail dot com
[16:32] <Kilos> ai thats a kak nick without tab complete
[16:33] <not_found> lol...
[16:33] <not_found> no worries
[16:33] <not_found> using in built help system ... let the bot tell me
[16:34] <nlsthzn> grrr
[16:35] <nlsthzn> how can I make the bot female (lol, or I should change the name I guess) :p
[16:35] <Kilos> give it a female name
[16:35] <Kilos> mail gone
[16:36] <Kilos> twit
[16:36] <superfly> nlsthzn: you have to find all the places that the bot refers to itself and change them
[16:37] <superfly> I don't know if recent versions of ibid have an option for that
[16:37] <Kilos> i delete ibid.db and ini and start again
[16:40] <nlsthzn> :)
[16:40] <Kilos> hehe
[16:40] <nlsthzn> I gave it a female name, that is the problem :p
[16:40] <Kilos> windows logic
[16:40] <nlsthzn> he doesn't know he is female
[16:40] <nlsthzn> :p
[16:40] <Kilos> format and reinstall
[16:41] <Kilos> whats his name?
[16:41] <nlsthzn> lulu
[16:41] <Kilos> lol
[16:41] <nlsthzn> it is a name u see a lot in the UAE for some reason
[16:42] <nlsthzn> Should have gone with Sir Bani Yas :/
[16:42] <nlsthzn> well the meeting stuff worked great!!
[16:42] <nlsthzn> awesome bot
[16:42] <nlsthzn> now to delete and re-configure :D
[16:42] <Kilos> all the noies are there
[16:42] <Kilos> nosies
[16:43] <nlsthzn> I asked for some peeps to stay there to assist me in growing the channel uncle Kilos
[16:43] <Kilos> ah
[16:44] <nlsthzn> oh and good news... we have gained ownership of the launchpad account for the UAE loco so it is full steam ahead again :)
[16:44] <Kilos> yay well done
[16:45] <nlsthzn> pity the one Uni here brushed us off when we wanted to have an installfest there :'(
[16:45] <nlsthzn> got me so annoyed I even blogged about it (and I never blog more than two posts in a blog, ever)
[16:46] <nlsthzn> how do I quit the bot gracefully or do I just kill the terminal?
[16:47] <Kilos> die
[16:48] <nlsthzn> ?
[16:52] <superfly> nlsthzn: you can try sending it a kill signal, or just kill the terminal
[16:52] <smile> Kilos: what can you do?
[16:52] <smile> :p
[16:53] <nlsthzn> thanks superfly ... gave it the kill command and she commited
[17:00] <Kilos> i gotta go eat
[17:00] <Kilos> be good
[17:01] <nlsthzn> cheers
[17:19] <Kilos> looks good to see so many nicks here again for a change
[17:19] <Kilos> yo nuvolari het jy krag vanaand
[17:22] <nuvolari> aloha
[17:22] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos
[17:22] <nuvolari> net net
[17:22] <nuvolari> ons het nie werk by die krag gehad nie
[17:22] <nuvolari> er
[17:22] <nuvolari> ons het nie krag by die werk gehad nie
[17:22] <nlsthzn> lol
[17:22] <Kilos> lol
[17:22] <magespawn> Ha
[17:23] <nuvolari> gelukkig is hier krag, want ander mense van die werk het nie
[17:23] <nuvolari> Kilos: hoekom vra oom?
[17:23] <Kilos> ai
[17:23] <magespawn> I am out of here for now, good night all
[17:24] <Kilos> mag ek nie?
[17:24] <Kilos> night magespawn
[17:24] <nuvolari> nee ek't net gedink oom het oë in hoë plekke wat spy
[17:24] <nuvolari> :P
[17:25] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[17:25] <nuvolari> dat oom dalk geweet het hier is nie krag nie
[17:25] <nuvolari> o, oom het dit seker na gisteraand afgelei :P
[17:25] <Kilos> ja
[17:25] <nuvolari> ek't al vergeet dit was af
[17:25] <Kilos> nou en dan dink ek ook
[17:26] <nuvolari> lol
[17:26] <nuvolari> ek is bly iemand doen dit meer as ek!
[17:26] <nuvolari> :P
[17:27] <nuvolari> ek oop nie queery het off-list flames gehad nie :-/
[17:27] <Kilos> o ja maia het klaar dvds bestel
[17:27] <nuvolari> niemand het sleg bedoel nie
[17:27] <Cantide> someone from Humansdorp phoned me today - she asked if we could speak in Afrikaans; I had to refuse :(
[17:27] <nuvolari> Cantide: did she sound hot?
[17:27] <Kilos> aw shame Cantide
[17:28]  * nuvolari should make his number available for such cases :P
[17:28] <Kilos> dont go by sound
[17:28] <nuvolari> true
[17:28] <Cantide> nuvolari, hahahaha
[17:28] <nuvolari> sounds can be deceiving
[17:28] <Cantide> too true
[17:28] <Kilos> some sound wonderful till you get to know them
[17:28] <Cantide> the call was recorded anyway
[17:28] <Cantide> so there was no hitting on anyone :p
[17:29] <nuvolari> lol
[17:29] <Cantide> also, she was probably twice my age
[17:29] <Kilos> Cantide, dont you understand afrikaans
[17:29] <Cantide> i can understand some simple dialogue, that's all :'(
[17:29] <Cantide> and i can't speak it :'(
[17:29] <nuvolari> ons kan van hom skinder oom Kilos :P
[17:29] <Cantide> the result of living in Durban and only using English
[17:29] <Kilos> you grew up where?
[17:30] <Kilos> not_found, you can get to be boss of ibid with this nick too
[17:30] <Kilos> the grant option
[17:34] <not_found> ah ok... changed the ownership name in any case and changed the bots name
[17:34] <Kilos> i see
[17:34] <nuvolari> halp
[17:34] <Kilos> wow what a mouthfull
[17:34] <nuvolari> how do I connect to my boinc instance?
[17:34] <Kilos> wat nou nuvolari
[17:35] <nuvolari> it's running, but the manager won't connect
[17:36] <Cantide> Kilos, Durban ^^
[17:36] <Kilos> thats no excuse Cantide
[17:37] <Kilos> ian grew up there too
[17:37] <Cantide> it's a great excuse :)
[17:37] <Kilos> and cocooncrash
[17:37] <Kilos> haha
[17:37] <Cantide> well, ironically there is an Afrikaans high school next to my house
[17:38] <Kilos> there are some cute afrikaans chicks
[17:38] <Cantide> oh yeah!!
[17:38] <Kilos> aqnd they know how to cook
[17:38] <Cantide> i work with one haha
[17:38] <Cantide> but yeah, all communication in Durban seems to be mostly in English
[17:38] <Cantide> business, shopping, the schools i went to
[17:39] <Kilos> yeah it is
[17:39] <Cantide> Zulu is creeping in
[17:39] <Cantide> so i haven't really had to use Afrikaans ever :-S
[17:39] <Kilos> IT language is all english i think
[17:39] <Kilos> dunno what language sudo is
[17:40] <Kilos> Maaz, define sudo
[17:40] <Maaz> Kilos: I don't know about sudo. Maybe you meant Scudo, judo, Sudd, Suds, sudor, ludo, sumo, suds or udo?
[17:40] <not_found> is that south sudo?
[17:41] <Kilos> no man sudo as in sudo aptitude
[17:42] <Kilos> drussell, you here?
[17:42] <Cantide> hahaha
[17:42] <Cantide> how can Maaz not know sudo?
[17:43] <Cantide> '-'
[17:43] <Cantide> and where I'm going, Afrikaans will be totally unheard of :< but it would be ideal for impressing friends :)
[17:43] <Kilos> lol
[17:44]  * nuvolari awaits upgrade before restarting
[17:44] <Cantide> nuvolari, what are you up to?
[17:44] <nuvolari> Cantide: need a reoot to see if I can get my boinc manager back
[17:45] <nuvolari> *reboot
[17:45] <nuvolari> but I didn't upgrade for a while
[17:45] <nuvolari> so that has to finish now
[17:47] <Kilos> oh nuvolari i tried firestarter first but also didnt work
[17:47] <Kilos> cable connection without router
[17:47] <nuvolari> Kilos: what are you trying to do? I didn't get the entire picture yesterday, I just saw iptables and mentioned firestarter :P
[17:48] <Kilos> share 3g
[17:48] <Kilos> over ethernet
[17:48] <nuvolari> hmm, did you tell firestarter to do dhcp?
[17:48] <Kilos> tried gadmin and samba and arno and 4000 commands
[17:49] <Kilos> nope
[17:49] <Cantide> lol
[17:49] <Cantide> nuvolari, i don't know what boinc is :'(
[17:49] <nuvolari> also, you should make sure the internet connected device is ppp0, and eth0 is for sharing the internet
[17:50] <Kilos> anyway purged lotsa stuf still have arno not conf properly and lotsa iptables stuff but its working
[17:50] <Kilos> so i leave well enough alone now
[17:50] <nuvolari> Cantide: it's a client that allows you to run projects that participate in distributed computing
[17:50] <nuvolari> Kilos: ah, yeah, if it's working, leave it :P
[17:50] <Kilos> lol
[17:51] <nuvolari> firestarter worked the first time, every time, for me
[17:51] <Kilos> without router
[17:51] <nuvolari> yeah
[17:51] <Kilos> direct cable
[17:52] <nuvolari> when I didn't have a wireless router, I used it too
[17:52] <Kilos> see how you made me suffer by staying off here
[17:52] <nuvolari> laptop to netbook with 1 cable
[17:52] <Kilos> jy skuld my drie weke se sweet
[17:52] <Cantide> nuvolari, cool :)
[17:52] <nuvolari> heh, sorry oom Kilos
[17:52] <Kilos> hehe
[17:53] <nuvolari> nice! first time I see this
[17:53] <nuvolari> awesomewm marks a tile red when it notifies the user
[17:54] <nuvolari> oh dear :-/ flash upgrade
[17:54] <nuvolari> hope it doesn't break
[17:54] <not_found> bbl
[17:55] <nuvolari> ya, it's toast :-/
[17:58] <Cantide> :-S
[18:06] <smile> brb
[18:09] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight
[18:09] <smileE17> hoi :p
[18:12] <charlvn> hi smileE17
[18:12] <smileE17> hi charlvn :) have you slept well ;)
[18:12] <charlvn> yes! it's nice weather
[18:12] <charlvn> so i am sleeping and can't get up in the morning :)
[18:13] <charlvn> brb
[18:15] <smileE17> charlvn: why is that? :P
[18:15] <smileE17> you don't like work? :p or studying
[18:16] <charlvn> no i like work but the bed is just so nice in the morning :P
[18:16] <smileE17> at the evening it is, too :p
[18:17] <charlvn> for some reason i don't like going to bed early, but i think it's because i have trouble getting off the internets :D
[18:21] <nuvolari> good, upgrade went fine
[18:30] <smileE17> bye :)
[18:31] <nuvolari> success!
[18:31] <nuvolari> boinc is running
[18:31] <nuvolari> cheers smileE17
[18:31] <smileE17> good night, nuvolari
[18:50] <charlvn> :D
[18:50] <charlvn> nn all
[20:28] <DigiGram> Maaz: coffee on
[20:28]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[20:29] <DigiGram> wow, somebody listens to me :)
[20:32] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for DigiGram!
[20:33] <inetpro> DigiGram: enjoy it!
[20:33] <DigiGram> thanx Maaz
[20:33] <DigiGram> hehe inetpro
[20:34] <DigiGram> I wanted to do a late night MCU programming sprint, but I need to update my java first, and that won't happen on this EDGE connection of mine
[20:34] <Tonberry> mcu programming in java?
[20:37] <DigiGram> I use energia, a port from Arduino IDE to the TI Launchpad MSP430. And that uses java
[20:37] <Tonberry> ah
[20:37] <inetpro> sounds interesting
[20:37] <DigiGram> I'm to new at mcu's to try my hand at c (which I also do not know lol)
[20:38] <DigiGram> so now I sit and take apart an old CDRom for parts
[20:38] <inetpro> yikes
[20:38] <Kerbero> i am sure there should be beter ide's fot the msp430
[20:39] <DigiGram> want to test the laser for a trip beam
[20:39] <Tonberry> after the laser?
[20:39] <Tonberry> ah
[20:39] <DigiGram> I feel an infra red laser would be good for a beam
[20:39] <DigiGram> there is some good Windows IDE's yeah
[20:39] <DigiGram> but i'm quite happy with Energia, this is the first problem I ran into
[20:40] <inetpro> DigiGram: have fun!
[20:40]  * inetpro falling asleep
[20:40] <inetpro> good night
[20:40] <Tonberry> i would be tempted to just try a infra red led
[20:40] <Kerbero> yeah
[20:41] <DigiGram> night inetpro
[20:41] <DigiGram> the LED do not have a good range when your receiver is a cheap LDR
[20:41] <Tonberry> another ir led as receiver?
[20:42] <Kerbero> how do you want to use an ldr for that? it is going to pick upo other light too
[20:43] <Tonberry> a ldr is not really the optimal detector for any light source
[20:43] <DigiGram> yes Kerbero it will pick up other light, but if you set the sensitivity quite high, it recognises the laser beam from subdued sunlight
[20:43] <DigiGram> yes I know it's a crappy detector, but it works for me (and my budget)
[20:44] <Kerbero> no, sorry, you are wasting your budget
[20:44] <Kerbero> just use two ir led's as Tonberry just said
[20:44] <DigiGram> well it works
[20:44] <DigiGram> I've set it up previously in a sunny environment as well as indoors
[20:45] <Kerbero> i am impressed that you got it working though
[20:46] <DigiGram> my multimeter is still packed in after the move, as soon as I find it, I'll try the two IR LED's
[20:47] <DigiGram> still have some spares after my WII project
[20:48] <DigiGram> I've used LDR's a lot from school days, so maybe I'm just lucky
[20:48] <DigiGram> oh, I must add, the two laser beams I have previously set up was with a red laser, not IR


 hi all. hope everyone is doing well and keeping safe.
 Hey @philipz, happy new year. Good to see you! :D
 Hi everyone. There is a Telegram group for Ubuntu developer?
 Hi everyone. There is a public Telegram group for Ubuntu developer? (edited)
 Hi everyone. There is a public Telegram group for Ubuntu developers? (edited)
 I'm interested on gnome extentions and gnome native app develop
 I'm interested to learn on gnome extentions and gnome native app develop (edited)
 Not *really*. But it depends what you mean by "ubuntu developers" :D
 There are some here and there on telegram, but telegram isn't great for work/life balance, so a bunch of developers don't use it.
 Thanks Alan @popeydc. Can you help me to know, how I can propose features for the next gnome vanilla? (maybe it isn't best hour for ask you, because different time zone)
 Best having those conversations upstream with gnome developers
 They have a gitlab instance
 To you too my friend. I hear you all the time on the ubuntu podcast. 😁 (re @popeydc: Hey @philipz, happy new year. Good to see you! :D)
 Thanks again Alan @popeydc and sorry for my OT 😊
 Not offtopic at all :). Have a nice day!


[00:00] <mwhudson> oh, i mangled the stacked on url it seems
[00:01] <jml> kfogel: so, from 'def prefer_recent_revs', you could instead write
[00:01] <kfogel> jml: ok, string extension all fixed
[00:01] <jml> s += ''.join(map(str, sorted(self._landings, key=lambda x: x.top_rev.revno)))
[00:02] <kfogel> jml: (blank line after class doc strings done)
[00:02] <kfogel> reading
[00:02] <kfogel> jml: nice
[00:02] <jml> kfogel: and that would replace the for loop & function.
[00:02] <jml> kfogel: if you prefer named functions (and We generally do, but I don't care), you can split out the lambda
[00:02] <jml> kfogel: using 'key' is almost always faster than a cmp-based sort.
[00:02] <kfogel> jml: wait, that's not really from prefer_recent_revs, right?
[00:03] <kfogel> jml: it's from the outer  func
[00:03] <kfogel> jml: IOW, def prefer_recent_revs() would just go away
[00:04] <jml> kfogel: I meant 'from' as in 'starting at'
[00:04] <kfogel> jml: nod
[00:04] <jml> kfogel: but yes, you are right.
[00:05] <kfogel> jml: hmm, doing that resulted in a difference
[00:05] <kfogel> jml: let me investigate
[00:06] <kfogel> jml: oh, it reversed the order of the sort
[00:06] <kfogel> jml: note the order of a and b in prefer_recent_revs
[00:07] <jml> kfogel: ahh, easy enough to add a negate to the key function.
[00:07] <kfogel> jml: beautiful
[00:07] <jml> unless they are strings
[00:08] <jml> in which case, umm...
[00:08]  * jml learns Python again
[00:08] <kfogel> jml: they're numbres
[00:08] <kfogel> jml: they should be, anyway
[00:08] <kfogel> wait
[00:08] <kfogel> hmmm
[00:08] <kfogel> er
[00:08] <jml> sorted(list, key=whatever, reverse=True)
[00:08] <jml> that's clearer anyway
[00:08] <jml> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#sorted
[00:08] <kfogel> jml: wow, never knew about reverse=True
[00:09] <kfogel> great
[00:09] <jml> kfogel: sometimes the stdlib is awesome :)
[00:09] <kfogel> jml: now there's no difference
[00:09] <jml> cool.
[00:09] <kfogel> jml: there's another sort function elsewhere
[00:09] <kfogel> I'll see if I can do the same thing.
[00:11] <jml> kfogel: when you're done with that can you commit & push the branch so I can take another look.
[00:11] <kfogel> jml: sure, one min
[00:13] <jml> cheers.
[00:17] <mwhudson> jml: in your branch that you sent to me, there are a bunch of XXXed questions in lib/devscripts/tests/test_sourcecode.py
[00:17] <mwhudson> jml: i'm sure some of them have answers now
[00:17] <mwhudson> (like "can we rely on twisted")
[00:17] <mwhudson> jml: can you run through and update them?
[00:18] <kfogel> jml: pushed.  UI doesn't show all revs yet, but presumably bzr has them.  r9384 is latest.
[00:20] <kfogel> jml: good advice on trivial bugs, btw (on ml)
[00:21] <jml> kfogel: thanks
[00:21] <jml> mwhudson, will do.
[00:21] <jml> ta :)
[00:21] <mwhudson> jml: thanks
[00:21] <mwhudson> gosh, i know bash too well
[00:21]  * jml is a little bit closer to my second cup of coffee
[00:23] <jml> kfogel: more stylistic stuff coming your way
[00:24] <jml> kfogel: # where "{X}" means "LogRevision for X" -- needs two more spaces of indent to align with the comment above
[00:24] <jml> and a blank line afterwards to sate the PEP 8 gods' thirst.
[00:24] <jml> kfogel: don't align '=', but rather keep one space on either side.
[00:24] <jml> kfogel: empty list is written like s = [], not s = [ ]
[00:25] <jml> similarly empty dict is {} not { }
[00:25] <kfogel> jml:  reading
[00:25] <jml> kfogel: indentation in get_ex_cons is still 2-space, should be 4-space.
[00:26] <sinzui> jml: I started writing a new linter. It uses pep9.py
[00:26] <kfogel> jml: ok, correcting, and dang it, I set the py-indent-offset var to 4, what the heck is up with that persistent 2 space then?
[00:26] <sinzui> jml: I started writing a new linter. It uses pep8.py
[00:26] <jml> sinzui, I actually have pep8.py wired up to my emacs
[00:26] <jml> sinzui, you don't think I _remember_ all this crap? :)
[00:26] <jml> kfogel: blame barry's non-standard python mode :P
[00:26] <sinzui> jml: mine is wired in to gedit. I am announcing the release in two days
[00:27] <jml> sinzui, cool.
[00:27] <sinzui> jml: I think we should abandon pylint. pyflakes + pep8 is good enough for me
[00:27] <jml> kfogel: get_ex_cons could probably be a classmethod, rather than a top-level function
[00:27] <kfogel> jml: when you say "don't align '=', you mean for example in ContainerRevision.__str__() ?
[00:27] <jml> sinzui, +1
[00:27] <kfogel> jml: (missing " above, sorry)
[00:27] <jml> kfogel: exactly so.
[00:27] <kfogel> jml: ok, fixing
[00:28] <kfogel> jml: but I don't have to like it :-)
[00:32] <jml> kfogel: heh heh.
[00:32] <jml> kfogel: in LogExCons.__init__, you assign to a local variable to no obvious effect (current_top_level_rev = None). A bug, perhaps?
[00:32] <jml> kfogel: page_intro is really wide. Is it possible to wrap it without breaking wiki formatting?
[00:33] <jml> kfogel: I dropped out, what was the last thing I said?
[00:33] <kfogel> jml: hunh, I made get_ex_cons() a class method, and now it produces an empty page
[00:33] <kfogel> one sec
[00:33] <kfogel> jml: last thing you said was:
[00:33] <kfogel> kfogel: page_intro is really wide. Is it possible to wrap it without breaking wiki formatting?
[00:34] <kfogel> jml: sure, I can use "\" at end of line in page_intro, right?
[00:34] <jml> kfogel: thanks.
[00:34] <jml> nothing got dropped the.
[00:34] <kfogel> jml: if a class method is to be used privately only, should I prefix its name with "_" ?
[00:35] <jml> kfogel: yes, in general.
[00:35] <jml> kfogel: but maybe I was mistaken about the classmethod thing...
[00:36] <kfogel> jml: ? no other class uses it, though it is sort of of general utility
[00:37] <jml> kfogel: well, if it looks better, do it :)
[00:37] <jml> kfogel: I just realized that I misinterpreted its purpose, and advised based on that bad interpretation
[00:37]  * jml almost always uses classmethod to make factories for the class.
[00:38] <kfogel> jml: the current_top_level_rev intialization question is a deep philosophical question, actually: do we believe in "init explicitly to an invalid value" or do we believe in "don't init it if the initial value shouldn't matter" ?
[00:38] <kfogel> jml: I don't care which the answer is; if it's 2, I'll do 2.
[00:39] <kfogel> jml: re the get_ex_cons() thing: I think on balance top-level method feels a bit more right, so I'm going to uncommit that.  Not that it's a big deal either way.
[00:40] <jml> kfogel: cool.
[00:40] <kfogel> jml: how about the init question?
[00:41] <jml> kfogel: it's a post-2nd-coffee question.
[00:41] <kfogel> jml: there I have consulted with dusty tomes in Greek and Latin, and still find no certain answer.  I rely on your wisdom.
[00:41] <jml> kfogel: I tend to prefer instantiating actual honest-to-goodness objects.
[00:42] <kfogel> jml: mmm, good point -- the initialization misleads as to the expected type
[00:42] <kfogel> jml: but I don't have an object yet
[00:43] <jml> sec.
[00:43]  * kfogel waits for the caffeine to reach jml's capillaries
[00:44] <jml> kfogel: this is how I would do the string building stuff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/268841/
[00:44]  * jml now turns to current_top_level_rev...
[00:45] <jml> kfogel: ahh, right.
[00:45] <jml> kfogel: set it to None.
[00:45] <kfogel> jml: thx, I didn't know about string.extend()
[00:45] <jml> kfogel: it's list.extend
[00:45] <jml> kfogel: what it's doing is building a list of lines.
[00:45] <kfogel> d'oh, sorry
[00:46] <jml> kfogel: and then joining those lines together with '\n' as a separator.
[00:46] <kfogel> jml: I think I'm going to rename that var from "s" so as not to confuse anymore
[00:46] <kfogel> jml: one sec while I make everyone do that
[00:46] <kfogel> jml: (I think it's worth it; good habits now == easier reviews later)
[00:46] <jml> kfogel: maybe even to something that actually means something about the problem domain? :)
[00:46] <jml> kfogel: ok, while you do that, I'll make a coffee. :)
[00:47] <kfogel> jml: fwiw, my natural emacs indentation does not put the first " four spaces after the column of the [ above it, in this new list/string universe.
[00:48] <kfogel> sorry
[00:48] <kfogel> I mean
[00:48] <kfogel> it does not put it right under the [, but instead under the =
[00:48] <kfogel> I wonder if that is due to some indentation var still set to 2
[00:48]  * kfogel looks
[00:48] <kfogel> yup
[00:48] <kfogel> py-indent-offset got reset to 2
[00:48] <kfogel> dunno what's up with that; I'm just going to fix it in the vars line for the file
[00:49] <kfogel> (and deal with my .emacs later -- it has to be compatible with many projects, not just lp)
[00:55] <jml> kfogel: emacs should be better at per-project configuration
[00:55] <jml> kfogel: ok, so... where are we.
[00:55] <kfogel> jml: I'm still transforming the list/string stuff
[00:56] <kfogel> jml: interesting; when I have only one elt, I can still use .extend()
[00:58] <jml> kfogel: yeah. it's just joining one list onto the end of another
[00:58] <kfogel> jml: yeah, just interesting that it will also join an elt -- i.e., won't create a terminal cdr, as (some) lisps might.
[00:59] <barry> bac: done to 10 failures
[00:59] <jml> kfogel: can you give an example?
[01:00] <mwhudson> kfogel: python lists are lisp vectors, not lisp lists
[01:00] <kfogel> mwhudson: thx
[01:00] <mwhudson> (gosh, brain fade, lisp does call 1-d arrays vectors, right?)
[01:00] <kfogel> mwhudson: I think so
[01:04] <jml> kfogel: btw, you should have your name and the date in XXX comments
[01:05] <kfogel> jml: "XXX: Karl Fogel 2009-09-10: ..." ?
[01:05] <kfogel> jml: (trying to make you a lisp example, but it's back-burner)
[01:05] <jml> kfogel: yeah. thanks.
[01:05] <jml> I guess you are supposed to use WikiName...
[01:05] <kfogel> jml: really?
[01:06] <kfogel> jml: ok
[01:06] <jml> but I couldn't possibly force someone else to do that, given I dislike it and there's no actual reason.
[01:06] <kfogel> jml: ok :-)
[01:07] <kfogel> jml: anything else?
[01:07] <kfogel> jml: branch pushed again, to r9388
[01:08] <jml> kfogel: alpha-sort imports, blank line between stdlib imports and bzr imports. barry has an elisp thingy to do this for you on EmacsTips
[01:09] <barry> kfogel: if you grab the latest python-mode.el, C-c C-f is bound to py-sort-imports
[01:11] <kfogel> barry:  it only works on multiline imports
[01:11] <jml> :(
[01:11] <kfogel> barry: gets an "unbalanced parentheses" error for me
[01:11] <kfogel> same from EmacsTips
[01:11] <kfogel> jml: is this right:
[01:11] <kfogel> import getopt
[01:11] <kfogel> import re
[01:11] <kfogel> import sys
[01:11] <kfogel> from bzrlib.branch import Branch
[01:11] <kfogel> from bzrlib import log
[01:11] <kfogel> from bzrlib.osutils import format_date
[01:11] <barry> kfogel: yeah, it looks for names inside parens
[01:11] <kfogel> or should bzrlib be first?
[01:12]  * mwhudson still needs to write something/figure out how to drive ropemacs to do the import statements automatically
[01:12] <jml> kfogel: bzrlib first
[01:12] <kfogel> and sorted within that?
[01:12] <jml> mwhudson, please please please.
[01:12] <jml> kfogel: I don't understand.
[01:12] <kfogel> jml: I can think about about three different ways that might be Right.
[01:12] <kfogel> want to just paste what the right way is?
[01:12] <mwhudson> jml: after filtering those questions, can you commit and push?
[01:12] <jml> yeah, ok.
[01:12] <jml> mwhudson, yes, I will.
[01:13] <mwhudson> thank you
[01:13] <kfogel> jml: there are 3 bzrlib lines; what order should they be in?  (granted that they come before the other imports)
[01:13] <jml> mwhudson, this review is consuming all of my mental bandwidth right now
[01:13] <kfogel> mwhudson: he's mine, don't touch him
[01:13] <mwhudson> jml: ok
[01:14] <jml> the slowness and unreliability of my internet connection is not helping...
[01:15] <jml> kfogel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/268852/
[01:15] <kfogel> jml: thx
[01:16] <jml> kfogel: don't use has_key
[01:16] <kfogel> jml: committed and pushed (r9389)
[01:16] <kfogel> dang it :-)
[01:16] <kfogel> jml: ok
[01:16] <jml> you want... umm...
[01:17] <kfogel> jml: 'in' ?
[01:17] <kfogel> jml: btw, why not use has_key()
[01:17] <kfogel> ?
[01:17] <jml> ec = all_ex_cons.get(a, None)
[01:17] <kfogel> jml: ok, wait a sec
[01:17] <kfogel> How is that better?
[01:17] <kfogel> IMHO it's worse, in terms of communicating what we're doing there.
[01:17] <jml> if ec is None:\n    ec = ExCon(a); all_ex_cons[a] = ec
[01:17] <jml> well, you can do the if a in all_ex_cons
[01:18] <jml> has_key is deprecated, and won't be in future versions of python
[01:18] <kfogel> ah
[01:18] <jml> either use 'get' or 'in'.
[01:19] <jml> I tend to lean to leap-before-you-look (hence the get), but both are appropriate here.
[01:19] <kfogel> jml: I'll wait for moer comments before pushing again
[01:19] <kfogel> (or for EOT)
[01:20] <jml> kfogel: last thing
[01:20] <kfogel> ?
[01:20] <jml> kfogel: dict colon alignment is kind of like = alignment
[01:20] <kfogel> ah
[01:20] <jml> kfogel: {a: b, c: d, ...}
[01:21] <kfogel> jml: in main(), right?
[01:21] <kfogel> jml: any other places?
[01:22] <jml> kfogel: no, just main
[01:22] <kfogel> jml: pushed to r9391
[01:22] <jml> kfogel: thanks.
[01:23] <jml> kfogel: please merge it.
[01:23] <kfogel> jml: thank you for the thorough review
[01:23] <jml> kfogel: np.
[01:24] <jml> kfogel: are we going to have that phone call?
[01:25] <kfogel> jml: bzr pqm-submit -m "[r=jml][ui=none] Add utilities/community-contributions.py script, for updating https://dev.launchpad.net/Contributions."
[01:25] <kfogel> ?
[01:25] <kfogel> jml: on second thought, leaving out the latter half, as the script already says that.
[01:25] <kfogel> (and if it ever changes, the script will change)
[01:26] <jml> heh
[01:26] <jml> sure.
[01:29] <kfogel> jml: submitted!
[01:33] <kfogel> jml: are you seeing my priv msgs?
[01:34] <jml> sorry
[01:34] <jml> I have dodgy internet
[01:36] <kfogel> np
[01:56] <kfogel> intellectronica: hey, what's diff btw a welcome msg and a topic?
[01:58] <intellectronica> kfogel: a welcome message is sent to you once and can have more than one line
[01:58] <intellectronica> i don't remember seeing them on freenode, though, so maybe you can't use them
[01:58] <kfogel> intellectronica: well, it's important that the msg be re-gettable anyway, which /topic is
[01:58] <kfogel> intellectronica: so i think maybe topic is better anyway?
[01:59] <kfogel> intellectronica: I type "/topic" all the time in here, and in other channels.
[01:59] <kfogel> intellectronica: (I mean to read the topic, not to change it)
[02:00] <intellectronica> kfogel: fair enough. i don't rely on it as much, but that's hardly statistically significant
[02:00] <kfogel> intellectronica: my use is not be statistically significant either; so hard to get real data, unless Freenode chooses to share with us :-).
[02:04] <intellectronica> indeed
[02:05] <intellectronica> anyway...
[02:05]  * intellectronica goes to dream in ascii art
[02:09]  * jml more coffee & more toast, then mwh-related branches.
[02:10]  * mwhudson lunches
[02:22] <jml> fwiw, my internet connection today is really crappy, so please forgive my occasional lapses.
[02:26] <jml> mwhudson, I've filtered those questions.
[02:38] <mwhudson> jml: thanks
[02:44] <jml> mwhudson, you aren't in #launchpad-reviews, I take it.
[05:37] <jml> internet hates me
[05:37] <jml> x hates me
[05:38] <jtv> jml: we don't hate you though
[05:39] <jtv> (Insert your favorite snide follow-up here)
[05:40] <jml> it's entirely possible that firefox hates me most of all
[05:40] <jtv> wouldn't put it past it
[05:41] <jtv> jml: is it perhaps time to get to the root cause of all this hatred?
[05:41] <jtv> face it, with all the variables, the only constant is you.
[06:03]  * jml bravely launches firefox again
[06:28] <jml> mwhudson, hi
[06:28] <mwhudson> jml: hello
[06:28] <jml> mwhudson, I've pushed up my changes to that branch
[06:28]  * mwhudson tests his ec2test-hackery branch on itself
[06:28] <jml> mwhudson, how have things gone with you?
[06:29] <jml> (sorry, it's been a very distracty day)
[06:29] <mwhudson> jml: i have moved some code around in ec2test
[06:29] <mwhudson> jml: yeah, no worries
[06:29] <jml> mwhudson, yay
[06:29] <jml> I guess I'll resubmit the mp or something
[06:29] <mwhudson> jml: specifically, the connect_as_user methods now return something rather than mutating instance state
[06:29] <mwhudson> jml: and the code to make a unix user is on instance now
[06:30] <jml> soooo happy
[06:30] <mwhudson> yeah, it's very much an improvement
[06:30] <mwhudson> oh heavens
[06:30] <jml> mwhudson, I really wanted to do that, but couldn't quite see how, at the time.
[06:30] <jml> mwhudson, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/better-sourcecode-update/+merge/11580
[06:31]  * jml also wants to review all of maxb's recent branches.
[06:31] <jml> oh man.
[06:31] <jml> and my computer crashed / hanged before I could submit that other one, I think.
[06:32] <mwhudson> jml: boto seems to import hashlib
[06:32] <jml> mwhudson, why is this a problem?
[06:32] <mwhudson> jml: does ec2test work with python 2.4 at all?
[06:33] <jml> mwhudson, yeah, I think so.
[06:33] <jml> but maybe I'm wrong
[06:35]  * jml files https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/427703
[06:35] <ubot3> Malone bug 427703 in launchpad-foundations "Way to see which branches I'm testing with ec2test right now" [Undecided,New]
[06:48] <jml> ok
[06:49] <jml> let's see if my computer will stay up long enough for this to work.
[07:06] <jml> the ohloh import is up to phase 3!
[07:06] <jml> Step 3 of 3: Counting lines of source code (Running 4875/66451)
[07:09] <mwhudson> jml: cool
[07:31] <jml> mwhudson, were you planning on reviewing the better-sourcecode-update branch today?
[07:31] <jml> didrocks, wuuu.
[07:31] <didrocks> :)
[07:31] <didrocks> ok, I'm trying to checkout it in intrepid
[07:32] <jml> didrocks, the secret page is https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
[07:32] <jml> didrocks, getting a Launchpad dev environment up and running is not as easy as it should be.
[07:32] <didrocks> yes, I already read this "secret" page :)
[07:32] <didrocks> ok, trying it right now
[07:32] <mwhudson> jml: yeah, i'll try
[07:33] <jml> mwhudson, cool. thanks.
[07:33] <didrocks> ok, bzr doesn't know the format, let me have a look at the bzr ppa for intrepid
[07:38] <mwhudson> jml: done
[07:39] <jml> mwhudson, hanks.
[07:40] <didrocks> jml: Hum, it will definitevely broke my intrepid server if I accept a "Score is -9863" :)
[07:40] <didrocks> jml: Well, I will be able to do it from home, can you drop me some instructions so that I can start on it?
[07:41] <jml> didrocks, ok. that sucks.
[07:41] <jml> didrocks, sure. have you filed a bug for it yet?
[07:41] <didrocks> no, I'm doing it right now
[07:41] <didrocks> jml: against launchpadlib, right?
[07:41] <jml> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/389872
[07:41] <ubot3> Malone bug 389872 in launchpad-registry "GPG keys not exposed in API" [Low,Triaged]
[07:42] <didrocks> ok, it already exist, great :)
[07:42] <jml> didrocks, I'll make some comments there.
[07:42] <didrocks> jml: thanks, and I try to assign it to myself :)
[07:42] <jml> :)
[07:59] <jml> didrocks, done
[08:02] <didrocks> jml: yes, I'm assigning the bug to myself. I hope it will be a little more clear when seeing the code. Thanks :)
[08:02] <jml> didrocks, np.
[08:02] <jml> didrocks, good luck!
[08:02] <didrocks> jml: thanks! I will certainly ping you :)
[08:03] <jml> didrocks, note that I'm in Australia for the next week and a bit, so you may find timezones to be a problem.
[08:03] <jml> didrocks, people in this channel will gladly help you though, if I'm not around.
[08:04] <didrocks> jml: ok, I'll just ask here. Enjoy Australia :)
[08:15]  * mwhudson eods
[08:16] <jml> mwhudson, have a good weekend.
[08:16] <mwhudson> jml: well i'm working tomorrow...
[08:16] <jml> mwhudson, oops
[08:16] <jml> mwhudson, have a good evening then :)
[08:18] <mwhudson> (swap day for later in the year, so i'm not that upset about it...)
[08:32] <adeuring> good morning
[09:19] <xaver> hi i have trouble with launchpad repo. the download start with 900-1200 kb/s and slow down to 1000-3000 B/s
[09:19] <xaver> hi
[09:20] <mrevell> Guten morgen
[09:20] <xaver> i have trouble with launchpad repo. the download start with 900-1200 kb/s and slow down to 1000-3000 B/s (kann auch deutsch schreiben)
[09:20] <xaver> ^^
[09:22] <mrevell> xaver: Sorry, that's the limit of my German :) What are you downloading?  Ich habe kein problem - Ich hab jetzt ein update gemacht mit 3 ppas.
[09:28] <xaver> is immer also nicht nur heute
[09:28] <xaver> zuhause läuft es
[09:28] <xaver> nur hier...
[09:28] <noodles775> bigjools: any idea why ppa's specifically would always slow down for xaver?
[09:29] <bigjools> local networking issues
[09:29] <noodles775> xaver: ah, so it's probably a network issue specifically ...
[09:29] <noodles775> Yes, sounds like it, if it's specific to one location.
[09:29] <xaver> ok thx
[09:29] <noodles775> np.
[09:29] <xaver> wir hängen direkt am RZ ;)
[09:29] <bigjools> is there a proxy in the way?
[09:29] <bigjools> etc.
[09:32] <xaver> no
[09:32] <xaver> we a direct likned ion the data center
[09:32] <xaver> on
[09:32] <xaver> frist 20 mb run with 900-1200kbs
[09:33] <xaver> next second down to 1000 b/s
[09:35] <xaver> another question, i pack a lot of packages at home, is a good docu how i can help with packages for launchpad.... -> problem at home is my connetion very bad, but now i can upload it at work
[09:37] <noodles775> xaver: help with packages for Ubuntu? http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newdev or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[09:47] <xaver> is in linux a programm for M$ exchange 2007 beside from evolution mail
[09:59] <xaver> bye reboot ;)
[10:11] <wgrant> noodles775: Nice new archive views.
[10:12] <noodles775> wgrant: thanks! There are still a few changes to land - but it was in a landable state.
[10:12] <noodles775> wgrant: cprov is getting ready to land a simplified "Adding this PPA to your system" portlet which will mean the sources.list details are folded by default.
[10:12] <wgrant> noodles775: Great!
[10:13] <wgrant> noodles775: The multiple <dd>s in sequence on +packages look, IMO, much better if the non-final ones have a 'margin-bottom: 0' added.
[10:13] <wgrant> noodles775: Otherwise there are awkward gaps.
[10:16] <noodles775> wgrant: hmm... I can't see the awkward gap... do you mean, for example, between the last dd under 'Number of packages' and the 'repository size' dt?
[10:16] <wgrant> noodles775: The package filter on +index is set to the right distroseries by default, but the table contains packages for all seires. Is that known?
[10:16] <wgrant> noodles775: Between the binary and source counts/sizes is the main one.
[10:17] <wgrant> There's as much of a gap between those two and between the last and the following heading.
[10:17] <maxb> woo. I just got my first ec2test email :-)
[10:18]  * wgrant eats.
[10:20] <noodles775> wgrant: nope, first bug - (actually for me the package filter is *not* being set to the correct default even though the sources.list is... :/)
[10:48] <danilos> jtv: hey, around?
[11:03] <wgrant> noodles775: You're right about it not being set by default. Firefox was just doing bad cachy things.
[11:04] <noodles775> OK, I'll fix that today.
[11:09] <wgrant> Who is behind the new DSPR index?
[11:10] <noodles775> wgrant: bigjools initially, but I think cprov-afk ended up implementing it?
[11:10] <wgrant> noodles775: I see.
[11:11] <bigjools> mostly cprov in fact, the original mockup was discarded since we decided it was no good
[11:11] <wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/2.27.92-1ubuntu1
[11:11] <wgrant> The '(New)' there looks very strange and it's somewhat unobvious what it means.
[11:13] <wgrant> maxb: Aha! Your branch was merged. Very nice.
[11:25] <jtv> Hmm... why is "bzr push" transferring a hundred MB again?
[11:26] <maxb> wgrant: 1 of 6 :-)
[11:27] <maxb> no, 2 of 6 :-)
[11:28]  * wgrant prepares the second part of PPA download counts.
[11:28] <noodles775> wgrant: great! I've left space in the PPA stats portlet for that exact reason :)
[11:28] <bigjools> ha
[11:29] <noodles775> danilos: did you have an issue where the last object of a traversal was being traversed but not being added to request.traversed_objects? If so, can you tell me more?
[11:30] <danilos> noodles775: yes
[11:30] <danilos> noodles775: you just need to provide an empty Navigation implementation for your interface; see the branch you reviewed (DistroSeriesLanguage adds navigation and registers it with browser:navigation)
[11:31] <noodles775> danilos: great, thanks!
[11:31] <danilos> noodles775: salgado has a bug about it (i.e. wants to fix it so we don't have to introduce empty, silly, navigation implementations), but I forgot the number :)
[11:32] <noodles775> danilos: np - I'm unstuck now so I'm happy :)
[11:32] <danilos> noodles775: heh, you should be, I spent entire day trying to figure that out (it was a public holiday in Brazil :)
[11:33] <noodles775> danilos: yeah, I just spent 45mins looking at it, and mentioned it to bigjools who remembered you'd had that issue - yay (I didn't take in the comment in the MP).
[11:33] <bigjools> for once I actually remembered something
[11:34] <noodles775> ;)
[11:34] <danilos> bigjools: good job, here's a candy! :P
[11:34]  * bigjools licks danilo's lollipop
[11:41]  * jtv tries to forget what he just read
[12:01] <mrevell> Launchpad community meet-up in London on the 28th Sept: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-meet-up-28th-september-the-warwick-london
[12:14] <bigjools> mrevell: we should offer a pint to anyone who turns up!
[12:15] <mrevell> bigjools: heh, maxb would get a pint in that case :)
[12:16] <bigjools> mrevell: I think I'm taking my bike down on the train this time. Walking to and from county hall was a PITA
[12:26] <bigjools> mrevell: btw, I really think the location should be in the pub opposite the Warwick
[12:29] <intellectronica> pretty much anywhere will be better than the warwick
[12:29] <intellectronica> sorry, didn't mean to be bitchy. it's about the company, not the location
[17:23] <jtv> gah... why did stacking stop working in my rf!?
[17:25] <jtv> Far as I can tell, everything is in 2a.  But:
[17:25] <jtv> Source branch format does not support stacking, using format:
[17:25] <jtv>   Branch format 7
[17:27] <jtv> danilos: I don't think I can land that test fix for you.  For some reason some branches will push and some won't.  :(
[17:28] <jtv> ah, and as soon as I said that, this one suddenly came through...  Let's see if PQM still thinks it's a "different VCSystem."
[17:35] <intellectronica> barry: i've got a lovely patch for you to review. removals only
[17:48] <mrevell> I'm off for the weekend, byeeeee
[17:48] <jtv-afk> bye mrevell!
[18:05] <intellectronica> have a loveleee weekend everyone
[19:36] <salgado> rockstar, how can we get diffs for merge proposals on launchpadlib branches? (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpadlib/lp-dev-utils/+merge/11607)
[19:36] <gary_poster> salgado: I think edge updates are broken.  I asked losas about it.
[19:39] <salgado> gary_poster, I don't understand what's the relation between these.  do you mean that the script which generates diffs on edge is not running?
[19:39] <gary_poster> salgado: yeah, that's my guess
[19:39] <rockstar> salgado, I'm not sure what you mean.
[19:40]  * rockstar thinks gary_poster might be telling lies
[19:40] <gary_poster> rockstar: unintentionally :-)
[19:40] <rockstar> gary_poster, that's a given.  :)
[19:41] <salgado> rockstar, I was thinking that the script were only configured to generate diffs for launchpad branches.  should it generate diffs for any branches?
[19:41] <gary_poster> rockstar: :-) what salgado is asking about is that my MP has been sitting around for over two hours, and I still don't have a diff.  Similarly...
[19:41] <rockstar> salgado, if you're talking about moving diffs, abentley and I are talking about an oops on edge that may be caused by trying to get these moving diffs generated.
[19:41] <gary_poster> oh, no, my "similarly" example is now ok
[19:41] <rockstar> gary_poster, ah, okay, that's unrelated to what we're talking about then.
[19:42] <gary_poster> well, I should say, "oh, yes! my "similarly" example is ok now!"
[19:43] <gary_poster> but anyway, rockstar, should that page have a diff?  If not, does it indicate that something is not running somewhere, maybe?  (That was my suspicion given the recent troubles)
[19:43] <rockstar> gary_poster, are the branches actually different?
[19:43] <gary_poster> rockstar: yeah, added a buncha files
[19:43] <gary_poster> rockstar: maybe adds are not noticed?
[19:44]  * gary_poster doublechecks he has not done something stupid...
[19:45] <abentley> gary_poster: The diff is not being generated because the branches are not different.
[19:45] <gary_poster> I also moved a directory
[19:45] <gary_poster> I just tried repushing
[19:45] <abentley> gary_poster: Sorry, typo on my part.
[19:45] <gary_poster> oh?
[19:46] <abentley> gary_poster: I mistyped the command to determine whether the  branches were different.
[19:46] <gary_poster> gotcha
[19:51] <rockstar> abentley, https://launchpad.net/bugs/427383
[19:51] <mup> Bug #427383: ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded in merge through the API <api> <oops> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/427383>
[19:51] <ubot3> Malone bug 427383 in launchpad-code "ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded in merge through the API" [Medium,Triaged]
[19:51] <mup> Bug #427383: ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded in merge through the API <api> <oops> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/427383>
[19:52] <rockstar> Can we get an admin to kick ubot3?
[20:58] <maxb> ubot3 has been kicked before and has come back. To get rid of it permanently, ask #ubuntu-bots
[20:58] <ubot3> maxb: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[20:58] <maxb> ubot3 owner
[20:58] <ubot3> This bot is owned by jussi01 - Questions about ubottu should be asked in #ubuntu-bots
[21:15] <abentley> rockstar: I updated bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/codeimport_api and it seems to be failing differently now: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/269372/
[21:18] <rockstar> abentley, contents of the test?
[21:18] <rockstar> abentley, actually, I'll take a look at it, and send the email to the list.
[21:18] <abentley> rockstar: You mean text of the test file?
[21:19] <rockstar> abentley, I meant the text, but don't worry about it.  I'll do some sleuthing, and if I get stuck like last time, I'll email to the list.
[21:19] <abentley> rockstar: No point sending mail to the list if this is a trivial problem.
[21:19] <rockstar> abentley, yeah, I'm not sure what's going on.  If it isn't a trivial problem, than I'll deal with it.  You're running out of core hours.
[21:20] <abentley> rockstar: Cool.
[21:21] <rockstar> abentley, also, I'm having a hard time finding the diffstat field in the database.
[21:21] <abentley> rockstar: Are you looking at the Diff table?
[21:21] <rockstar> abentley, no, I didn't know there was a Diff table.  Looking now.
[21:22] <rockstar> abentley, thanks.
[21:22] <abentley> rockstar: np
[21:27] <mwhudson> good morning
[21:33] <abentley> mwhudson: good morning.  Forgot you were around today.
[21:34] <abentley> mwhudson: Was about to invite rockstar to stand-up.
[21:39] <Fly-Man-> And another one bites the dust ....
[21:39] <Fly-Man-> What is happening with GIT imports these days ?
[21:40] <didrocks> Hey guys, I'm trying to checkout LP on mmy updated karmic, but I have an issue: http://paste.ubuntu.com/269385/
[21:41] <rockstar> abentley, let's stand then.
[21:41] <abentley> mwhudson: skype?
[21:45] <rockstar> abentley, I couldn't hear you.
[21:45] <abentley> rockstar: So I heard.
[21:46] <mwhudson> abentley, rockstar: few minutes, i'm still eating toast?
[21:47] <rockstar> abentley, hm, try again.  We can chat before mwhudson can join.
[21:49] <salgado> sinzui, thanks a lot for the help in converting person-index
[21:50] <sinzui> salgado: send me the review if you do not want to break it up
[21:51] <salgado> sinzui, ok
[21:52] <salgado> sinzui, I think the email addresses in contact-details should have a whole row for itself
[21:52] <salgado> quite often people have email addresses that are too long for the space we have there, and they will overlap with the time zone there
[21:52] <sinzui> salgado: Maybe, it was until I tried putting timezone there
[21:53] <sinzui> salgado: if the address is long, timezone should fall below it. The overlap was cause by the odd contact markup that I put on the side
[21:53]  * sinzui now doubt what he said is true
[21:53] <salgado> and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to move the openid right below the email addresses, as it's only shown when the user is looking at their own page
[21:54] <salgado> let me test it
[21:54] <sinzui> oh, yes. I prefer that too
[21:55] <mwhudson> abentley, rockstar: invite me now?
[21:56] <mwhudson> i am online, whatever skype says
[21:56] <didrocks> well, reading the mailing-list, I tried to execute make schema && make, without success, unfortunately: http://paste.ubuntu.com/269395/ :/
[21:56] <salgado> sinzui, indeed, the timezone doesn't fall below emails when they're too long
[21:57] <sinzui> salgado: So I must have been sniffing glue for lunch. Oh well. Move it to where you like, or drop it since it is on the map already
[21:58] <salgado> sinzui, I'll move it inside the two-column div, together with the rest of the stuff there
[21:58] <salgado> the problem really is with the email address thing, that needs the whole row for itself
[21:59] <sinzui> irc is just as long
[22:00] <salgado> but irc, as rendered there, can be broken into multiple lines
[22:00] <salgado> sinzui, should all of our "see-all" links not have the 'Show' bit in their text anymore?
[22:01] <sinzui> No, I had to remove them from a lot of portlets last week per beuno and kiko
[22:02] <sinzui> salgado: you might fix bug 386163 by accident
[22:02] <ubot3> Malone bug 386163 in launchpad-registry "Inconsistencies in contact detail labels on person page" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386163
[22:02] <mup> Bug #386163: Inconsistencies in contact detail labels on person page <Launchpad Registry:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/386163>
[22:02] <mup> Bug #386163: Inconsistencies in contact detail labels on person page <Launchpad Registry:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/386163>
[22:02] <mup> Bug #386163: Inconsistencies in contact detail labels on person page <Launchpad Registry:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/386163>
[22:04] <salgado> sinzui, not really by accident, but I will
[22:05] <sinzui> I see edwin fixed the irc form by accident. I'll assign it for him to close
[22:14] <salgado> sinzui, jabberids will have the same problem, but this only happens when they don't have any character (e.g. a dash) that the browser considers when breaking words
[22:15] <salgado> maybe what we need is to output our email addresses using<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:15] <sinzui> Maybe we should consider somethi....yes
[22:16]  * sinzui cannot remember the name of the formatter
[22:16] <salgado> oh, a formatter?
[22:16] <barry> sinzui: ping
[22:16] <sinzui> salgado: yes there is something in tales that makes long lines wrap
[22:16] <salgado> break_long_words!
[22:16] <sinzui> hi barry
[22:17] <barry> sinzui: hi.  let's talk base-layout.txt
[22:17] <sinzui> okay
[22:18] <barry> is there anything we can do other than print huge gobs of html?  it's just so fragile and very difficult to strip down the output
[22:18] <sinzui> how to you propose we verify each element that it is required to output?
[22:18] <rockstar> abentley, upon further inspection, it looks like that's a launchpadlib error.
[22:19] <rockstar> Like it's an error in marshalling an object to rest.
[22:19] <barry> sinzui: well, let's think about it.  i guess we don't have id's for the really essential bits do we?  and if not, should we?
[22:19] <barry> i have nothing against adding ids for testing purposes
[22:19] <barry> (we do that a lot)
[22:19] <sinzui> barry: in the case of base layout, we are relying on it to make sane pages. so ids are not relevant
[22:20] <barry> sinzui: ids for testing purposes could make sense though
[22:20] <sinzui> good luck putting an id in a comment
[22:21] <barry> sinzui: so then. we does base-layout.txt give us that other page tests don't give us indirectly?
[22:21] <sinzui> barry: ids, will get you most of the way. You need to put parse <html> to get the whole doc
[22:21] <rockstar> mwhudson, could you look at https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1348EA292 for me?
[22:21] <rockstar> mwhudson, I just need a hypothesis sanity check.
[22:22] <sinzui> barry: ? title, scripts, styles, meta, body with classes, headers, footers, diagnostics
[22:22] <mwhudson> rockstar: ok
[22:22] <sinzui> barry: No test other than base layout verifies those, nor should they
[22:22] <mwhudson> rockstar: simplejson.loads('') explodes like this, btw...
[22:22] <barry> sinzui: indirectly some of them are tested, e.g. titles
[22:23] <barry> sinzui: i'm not saying that's good, i'm just trying to boil this test down to essentials
[22:23] <barry> sinzui: as a doctest, you gotta admit, it's not readable :)
[22:23] <rockstar> mwhudson, yea, it's obvious there's a JSON issue here.  I feel like this might actually be lazr.restful not handling the blank correctly.
[22:24] <sinzui> barry: I direct is not good enough in this case. that test is painful because base-layout is that important. add ids if you wish, and use BS to parse <html> you still need to verify doctype and comments
[22:25] <sinzui> barry: I do not agree, because diagnosing failures in the macros was not possible without the test. You can improve the test, but I think you made changes without that test, and that is a big no no
[22:25] <barry> sinzui: well, one simple way to fix this would be to just blow away the view.render() output and paste in whatever the template outputs now.  but i wouldn't say that's a good solution.  otoh, it's not clear to me it's any worse that what it's doing now
[22:26] <sinzui> barry: you proposed ids, I said fine, why are you backtrackin?
[22:26] <barry> i'm not.  i'm looking for options
[22:27] <mwhudson> rockstar: hmm
[22:28] <sinzui> I think ids are best because we do not really care about the element, except for title. In all other cases, I think we care about the atts (class, src, href, style) so...
[22:28] <barry> ok.  i agree, let's go with ids
[22:28] <barry> thanks
[22:29] <sinzui> barry:
[22:29] <sinzui> >>> print find_tag_by_id(page, 'body-tag')['class']
[22:29] <sinzui> budy overview ponies
[22:29] <barry> yes, that's the idea
[22:30] <sinzui> barry: I think the end comment is testing using a split, so that test will continue to work
[22:31] <sinzui> barry: the doctype could be tested as a split on <html
[22:31] <rockstar> mwhudson, got time for a quick pre-imp call?
[22:32] <barry> sinzui: i'm not too worried about the doctype because ellipsis can ignore everything following.  ellipsis work less well the farther deep you go in the output
[22:32] <mwhudson> rockstar: i will have after i've refilled my coffee cup, one sec
[22:32] <barry> sinzui: is it really that important to test end comments?
[22:32] <rockstar> mwhudson, that's fine.  I need you caffeinated anyway.
[22:33] <sinzui> barry: yes, for the diagnostics at the end of the page
[22:34] <barry> sinzui: oh yes, those, but the <!-- yui-d0 --> comments?  or maybe i misunderstood what you meant
[22:35] <sinzui> barry: and as you might guess from the the use of
[22:35] <sinzui>     >>> print content[content.index('</html>') + 7:]
[22:35] <sinzui> I was desperate to isolate the one part I needed to fix at a late hour
[22:35] <mwhudson> rockstar: ok
[22:35] <barry> sinzui: yep
[22:35] <sinzui> barry: If you are using  BS you wont care because you can test containership
[22:35] <rockstar> mwhudson, "User Not Found"
[22:36] <barry> sinzui: right, that's what i think we really care about
[22:36] <mwhudson> stupid skype
[22:36] <sinzui> barry: agreed
[22:36] <barry> sinzui: cool, thanks.  will you be around for a while?  i may ping you to review this last change when it's ready
[22:37] <sinzui> barry: I think I will be in an out for the next 8 hours
[22:37]  * sinzui tries to change 38 pages before Monday
[22:37] <barry> sinzui: okay, that's cool.  if you're here and want to look, that's fine.  if not, i'm jfdi.  i'm tired of this branch and it needs to LAND! :)
[22:38]  * barry will not sleep until this is in the tree
[22:38] <didrocks> well, my launchpad dev setup try on jaunty fails as well :/
[22:38] <sinzui> barry: I agree. We can fix bugs next week, but we wont know about bugs if you don't land it
[22:39] <barry> sinzui: so right you are
[22:39]  * barry hacks
[22:43] <mwhudson> rockstar: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/269419/
[22:43] <mwhudson> (gee thanks, postgres!)
[22:52] <wgrant> buildbot is sad.
[22:53] <rockstar> wgrant, yeah, mwhudson said he was going to fix it, but I have a read lock on him right now.
[22:53] <wgrant> Ah.
[23:13] <mwhudson> hooray for test runs with 9 landings :/
[23:14] <wgrant> Yes. It wasn't mine?
[23:16] <mwhudson> wgrant: no
[23:16] <mwhudson> it's a rosetta thing
[23:16] <mwhudson> lib/lp/translations/browser/tests/translationmessage-views.txt
[23:17] <wgrant> mwhudson: Ah, great.
[23:20] <mwhudson> seems a bit of the test that should have been deleted
[23:39] <maxb> When I make minor followup changes to a branch proposed for merging after comments from reviewers, should I resubmit the MP ?
[23:39]  * mwhudson finally defeats pqm-submit for his '[testfix]
[23:40] <wgrant> maxb: No.
[23:40] <mwhudson> maxb: if the changes are small, paste the diff between what was reviewed and the current state of the branch into a comment
[23:40] <wgrant> maxb: Just reply saying that you've done it, and give the diff.
[23:40] <mwhudson> maxb: (we'll be fixing the workflow around this sort of thing soonish)