[00:30] <hazmat>  niemeyer pong
[00:30] <niemeyer> hazmat: Heya
[00:30] <niemeyer> hazmat: Was just wondering about the boolean stuff, but Clint already mentioned it's still on going
[00:32] <hazmat> hmm. wasn't appearing in the kanban view the other branch masked it
[00:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: Most of the remaining issues seem related to it
[00:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: Also a couple of new cases related to symlinks
[00:47] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I've only seen basic symlinks in charms.. the kind where they link  foo -> ./common.sh
[00:47] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, these are still fine
[00:48] <niemeyer> SpamapS: We'll prevent only the symlinks pointing out of the charm
[00:48] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The are only two occurrences in the entire repo
[00:48] <niemeyer> There are
[00:49] <SpamapS> I'd bet those are not in the reviewed charms
[00:49] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I've sent the output of the import round to the list
[00:49] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It's
[00:49] <niemeyer> ----- lp:~yellow/charms/oneiric/buildbot-slave/trunk
[00:49] <niemeyer> and
[00:50] <niemeyer> ----- lp:~openstack-ubuntu-testing/charms/precise/nova-cloud-controller/trunk
[01:21] <niemeyer> It's really unfortunate that we didn't start revisions on 1'
[01:41] <jimbaker> finally, reproduced bug 912812 in a simple test
[01:41] <_mup_> Bug #912812: Error condition on relation hooks locks events processing <juju:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/912812 >
[01:41] <jimbaker> (about time ;) )
[01:44] <_mup_> juju/purge-queued-hooks r454 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:44] <_mup_> Added test to verify queued hooks are purged after error
[01:50] <niemeyer> jimbaker: What was it about?
[01:53] <jimbaker> niemeyer, per the above bug, there may be queued hooks (say -changed after a -joined) that are waiting to run. but what if -joined exits with an error? the workflow (and its underlying state machine) at this point is in an error and it cannot run any such hooks
[01:55] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Hmm, right.. but isn't that expected?
[01:56] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sure. hence the bug
[01:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Sorry, I mean.. isn't the fact that it stops event processing expected?
[01:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: What's the bug?
[01:56]  * niemeyer reads
[01:56] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the state machine freezes
[01:56] <jimbaker> and the unit is consequently dead
[01:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Ah, ok.. the problem isn't that it stops processing events, but that it stops processing *EVERYTHING* ;-)
[01:57] <jimbaker> niemeyer, correct
[02:24] <_mup_> juju/purge-queued-hooks r455 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:24] <_mup_> Ensure accompanying -changed hook does not execute if -joined fails
[14:19] <jorge> could anyone help me with a juju test to deploy hadoop-master charm? the detailed scenario is pasted here http://pastebin.com/CrBab8RY ... Thanks! :)
[15:13] <m_3> jorge: hi, I'll give it a try on my end... it looks like it can't see the ppa
[15:30] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/102698/juju-wont-run-on-orchestra-due-to-ssh-error
[15:30] <jcastro> new question if someone has time to check it out
[15:43] <jorge> m_3: hum... but, when I run the same install script manually, from the same instance, it works. the instance has the proxy env variables set up (http_proxy no_proxy ....). so, i would like to understand how juju run the script. maybe this is the problem.
[15:47] <m_3> jorge: yeah, I just got it to 'started' state
[15:48] <m_3> and the tests have been passing for hadoop-master
[15:48] <m_3> try it again if you would... destroy-service, then terminate-machine, then deploy it again
[15:49] <m_3> trying to determine if it was just spurious dns fail or something else
[15:54] <jorge> ok
[18:20] <jcastro> niemeyer: heya, I'm not clear about something when you do these imports.
[18:20] <jcastro> do we need to have those 22 bugs fixed before the store can go live?
[18:21] <jcastro> basically, should I be making an effort to find people willing to help fix those?
[18:21] <m_3> jcastro: I think it's more a warning that these won't be visible to the charm-store
[18:22] <jcastro> ok, so they're not like "we need to fix these now or we are doomed"
[18:22] <m_3> jcastro: I'm watching the official "~charmers" ones closely... the rest shouldn't matter, they're just personal branches
[18:22] <m_3> afaik
[18:22] <jcastro> ok, that clears it up for me, thanks
[18:24] <m_3> I think the boolean may've landed recently... I'll verify, but once it does the remaining `~charmers` branches can be fixed
[18:28] <jcastro> we have a guy setting up juju with orchestra if someone wants to answer these: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/juju?sort=unanswered&pagesize=50
[18:30] <SpamapS> niemeyer: will there be somewhere that people can go to see the reason their charm failed to import?
[18:33] <m_3> SpamapS: good question... rather than waiting for reports thru email
[18:33] <SpamapS> even email is dicey IMO.. we don't have a contact field yet
[19:37] <hazmat> SpamapS, we do indirectly
[19:37] <hazmat> if its from a ppa, the owner is known
[19:38] <hazmat> and if its in charmers, the responsible group is known
[19:40] <SpamapS> hazmat: true. I think I'm just anti-email because I have 400 unread
[20:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yo
[20:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sorry, was off for a while
[20:04] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Absolutely.. the only reason I've been sending those reports to the list is because I've been working on the importer and the store itself
[20:04] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Tailoring restrictions and fixing bugs as I go
[20:04] <niemeyer> SpamapS: So it feels like a good idea to share the whole-repo intermediate results so that the repository may be improved while we don't have the final thing
[20:05] <niemeyer> SpamapS: In the future, juju publish will give immediate feedback
[20:06] <m_3> jcastro: post sounds good.. ship it
[20:06] <jcastro> <3 thanks
[20:06] <m_3> I think it's asking for help in exactly the right way... getting peeps to think about what sort of customizations they might already do
[20:06] <jcastro> right
[20:07] <m_3> ... and sharing them
[20:07] <jcastro> so if like everyone is saying "everyone knows you use nginx with wordpress"
[20:07] <jcastro> then we should ship that!
[20:07] <m_3> right
[20:07] <jcastro> of course people will argue about the nitnoid details, but even if you follow most of the things people agree on it's still better than what we have now
[20:07] <m_3> and other choices that people like can just be config options
[20:07] <jcastro> right!
[20:08] <m_3> or fork
[20:08] <jcastro> I should flesh out that detail better.
[20:08] <m_3> that's another post :)


[00:00] <cliftonts> it has to, yes it's been through canonical first but if you get a request from them for big beach ball and then suddenly a request for a picture of a big beach ball direct from a user you don't need their search term direct to know it was them
[00:01] <ali1234> that assumes they click on it
[00:01] <ali1234> oh wait, no it doesn't
[00:01] <ali1234> nvm :)
[00:01] <cliftonts> lol
[00:01] <ali1234> well, this is why i don't use unity
[00:02] <cliftonts> so it's flawed, not that I care if amazon knows what I'm searching for
[00:02] <ali1234> they also proxy it to filter out adult content
[00:02] <ali1234> though i would have throught amazon could do that automatically
[00:02] <ali1234> and also because they want those juicy stats
[00:02] <cliftonts> well no, if amazon did it how would they ever sell the adult products on there?
[00:02] <ali1234> well as an optional feed setting
[00:03] <ali1234> google adsense can do it
[00:03] <ali1234> you can disable adult, gambling, political ads etc
[00:03] <cliftonts> well the lens is a great idea, but far from ideal in reality
[00:03] <ali1234> i don't want a flat search
[00:03] <cliftonts> It's great as long as you never search for anything in the dash you'd rather keep to yourself
[00:03] <ali1234> i want to go to where i know the thing is, then search
[00:04] <ali1234> if i want to find a video, i go to youtube and search
[00:04] <cliftonts> you do, but not everyone is the same
[00:04] <ali1234> if i want a file on my hard disk, i open a terminal and run find
[00:04] <ali1234> it's much more efficient, and no privacy concerns
[00:04] <ali1234> exactly. not everyone is the same
[00:04] <ali1234> unity assumes everyone is the same
[00:04] <ali1234> that's why i don't use it
[00:05] <cliftonts> it's great that they are trying to create somethng that's not identical to the crowd, history will decide if it was for the better
[00:05] <ali1234> yeah, it's totally nothing like chromeOS :)
[00:05] <cliftonts> I wouldn't know
[00:05] <ali1234> with mac OS style dock and menus
[00:06] <cliftonts> yes there's overlap, as there is with every os today, but what they are doing with the dash is their own path. For better or worse
[00:06] <cliftonts> Personally I love it, it's not KDE
[00:07] <ali1234> KDE was good until they added plasma and a searchable start menu
[00:07] <ali1234> gnome was good until they added a searchable start menu
[00:08]  * penguin42 is using KDE on his main machine, although I don't like the start menu much
[00:08] <ali1234> the key difference between all the new style desktops and all the old style desktops is all the new ones assume they know better than you do, what you want
[00:08] <penguin42> ali1234: KDE seems reasonably tweakable these days
[00:08] <ali1234> that's what it means when they have a search, rather than the ability to go directly to what you want
[00:08] <gareth__> I HATE 3G!!!
[00:09] <ali1234> the worst part is when they try to "learn" frm the user
[00:09] <gareth__> I want my name back
[00:09] <ali1234> so the user is trying to learn the OS and the OS is trying to learn the user
[00:09] <ali1234> as a result, both are chasing an ever moving target
[00:09] <ali1234> this is not likely to end well
[00:10] <ali1234> gareth__: /msg nickserv help ghost
[00:10] <gareth__> I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride
[00:10] <ali1234> when i try to use unity i have to act dumb and try to forget everything i know
[00:11] <cliftonts> And I'm back!
[00:11] <cliftonts> Why does 3g get bored with the conversation and just drop out?
[00:11] <ali1234> you have bad signal
[00:12] <cliftonts> well yes, I do miss gnome 2 sometimes. I love the way they've got bold and started working towards a vision but it is a bit worrying when they strip all the features out
[00:12] <cliftonts> no, I don't it does this all the time, wherever I am
[00:12] <penguin42> cliftonts: That's why I just put MATE on lesser powered machines
[00:13] <cliftonts> and once it's disconnected it won't reconnect. I have to unplug and plug back in
[00:13] <cliftonts> I keep meaning to give that new gnome3 respin a test drive
[00:13] <shauno> sounds a lot like me e220.  frankly useless :/
[00:13] <cliftonts> I never really got the chance to play with the shell
[00:14] <cliftonts> spot on shauno
[00:14] <cliftonts> oh no, e173 apparently
[00:16] <cliftonts> aah, it looks like I was bumped off the network because someone has woken up and fixed it
[00:16] <cliftonts> I can see web pages again!!
[00:18] <cliftonts> and on that note I think it's bedtime
[00:18] <cliftonts> so thanks ali1234 for the inspiration, I'll catch you all next time
[01:40] <ali1234> how the fudge did this get 15 different answers? http://askubuntu.com/questions/24946/how-do-i-disable-the-drum-beat-sound-on-the-login-screen
[01:41] <ali1234> seriously? i thought ubuntu was supposed to be easy
[04:58] <alkisg> Hi, we've been using pad.ubuntu-uk.org for development notes, but it appears to be down... Will it be up again in the future? Is there any way to get a copy of our notes somewhat soon?
[05:05] <ali1234> popey would know
[05:06] <ali1234> it's 6AM on a sunday though, so everyone sensible is sleeping
[05:11] <alkisg> Thank you, I'll come back sometime tomorrow morning if the problem isn't solved
[05:13] <ali1234> stick around in the channel if you can. someone who knows might wake up in a bit
[05:15] <alkisg> Phew, fortunately I had the pad page open in some remote system, and while it got disconnected, I was able to get a screenshot of the top of the list, so I don't mind much anymore :)
[05:17] <ali1234> would about there think "Morning," really, which people stuff something through.
[05:18] <ali1234> the top 12 most used words in this channel for past 11 days, in order. weird- http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[05:20] <alkisg> ...for a moment I thought my english failed me, as I could parse the sentence formed by the random words... :D
[05:20] <alkisg> *couldn't
[05:22] <ali1234> Unity windows after having better server first seems always system getting facebook.
[05:23] <ali1234> that actually sums up my opinion of unity pretty well
[08:24] <Andres-kain> good morning!
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:37] <Neoti_Laptop> hey people...
[08:55] <cliftonts> AlanBell are you there?
[09:22] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yfXyn8bZcw&feature=youtu.be
[09:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:36] <jacobw> morning brobostigon
[09:39] <brobostigon> morning jacobw
[09:40] <Halexander9000> Good morning everyone. Could someone please let me know what the new "Install RELEASE" icon on my dash does? Because all it's done so far is cause me trouble.
[09:51] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:51] <bashrc> hello
[09:51] <AlanBell> Halexander9000: never heard of that one, what does it look like/do?
[09:51] <brobostigon> morning AlanBell
[10:25] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: Well, it looks a lot like the Ubuntu installed from the LiveCD I have from a month and a half ago, but after I go through all the steps it's always stuck at "Detecting file systems..." and it doesn't go any further than that. And on top of that, I think it's broken, since it displays "Unable to load pageProblem occurred while loading the URL file:///usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/index.htmlError opening file:
[10:25] <Halexander9000> Ubuntu installer*
[10:26] <AlanBell> ok, so um, why are you running it on an installed system?
[10:26] <AlanBell> normally that doesn't get installed
[10:26] <AlanBell> it is called ubiquity, you can remove it from the software centre
[10:27] <Halexander9000> Well, yesterday it updated. When I rebooted to complete the updates, this new icon appeared on my dash, and naturally I assumed that a new release of Ubuntu is pending installation.
[10:28] <AlanBell> hmm, ok, that isn't part of the upgrade process, ubiquity only runs on the live CD really
[10:28] <Halexander9000> The thing is, I installed ubuntu on a mobile drive, and as such I use Rescatux as a boot loader. After the update, I saw a new entry of a new version of linux right beside the old one.
[10:28] <Halexander9000> Used it, and thus here I am.
[10:28] <AlanBell> what version are you running at the moment?
[10:29] <Halexander9000> So, can I force kill the process then?
[10:29] <Halexander9000> Oh, um... what was the terminal command again?
[10:29] <Halexander9000> For the version check...
[10:29] <AlanBell> cat /etc/lsb-release
[10:30] <Halexander9000> Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
[10:30] <AlanBell> ok, and you want to upgrade to 12.10?
[10:31] <Halexander9000> Yes. And after going through all this trouble, I think I'd rather burn a new disc with the update than trying to fix this installer thing-ama-jiggy.
[10:32] <Halexander9000> Can I force kill the process without any serious consequences?
[10:32] <AlanBell> sure
[10:32] <Halexander9000> Alrighty then.
[10:32] <AlanBell> especially if you are going to start again :)
[10:32] <Halexander9000> Cannot kill process with PID 13821 with signal 9.
[10:32] <Halexander9000> Operation not permitted
[10:33] <Halexander9000> Well, that's just wonderfull.
[10:33] <AlanBell> normally you would go to the software centre and go to edit-software sources and tell it to notify you of any new version (not just LTS)
[10:33] <AlanBell> then the software updater should offer you the new release and you let it get on with it
[10:33] <AlanBell> sudo kill -9 13821
[10:34] <Halexander9000> Oh, neat. Right... um, so, burn a new disc?
[10:35] <Halexander9000> Or do the software center thing?
[10:35] <AlanBell> your call :)
[10:35] <Halexander9000> Disc it is.
[10:36] <Halexander9000> Thanks for the advice. Have a nice one, ok? Life that is.
[10:36] <AlanBell> needs to be USB or DVD
[10:36] <Halexander9000> Yup.
[10:37] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: Oh, and what's so new about the new version?
[10:37] <AlanBell> quite a few fixes in the Unity area, updated versions of various things, it isn't the most dramatic of upgrades
[10:38] <Halexander9000> I see.
[10:39] <Halexander9000> Hey, is having an 8 GB swap partition a good idea on a 1TB mobile hard-drive.
[10:40] <Halexander9000> Because the system Ubuntu is running on is... well it only has 495.6 MB of RAM.
[10:41] <AlanBell> that sounds fine, you don't really want to be using swap, but it is harmless to have more of it than you need
[10:41] <AlanBell> ram upgrades are cheap and effective :)
[10:42] <Halexander9000> True. But... I don't know for sure, but I doubt there's any RAM chips available for this old system. At least not the type it needs.
[10:44] <AlanBell> what is the spec of them?
[10:44] <Halexander9000> And it's not my call when it comes to physical upgrades. I'm just installing ubuntu on that mobile hard-drive so I can backup the owner's files on it without any Windows viruses getting their greedy little fingers on this drive and on top of that so the owner can have a back up OS in case Windows XP decides to die.
[10:45] <AlanBell> :)
[10:45] <Halexander9000> It's ... complicated. I don't know because I haven't popped the hood yet to look at them. But the system is... 6 to 10 years old? Maybe?
[10:46] <Halexander9000> Question: How do I get a torrent of the latest Ubuntu iso? Usually it was right there in the download page.
[10:47] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/alternative-downloads
[10:48] <Halexander9000> Thank you!
[10:49] <Halexander9000> There we go...
[10:51] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: I really hope nothing bad will happen with the data I already back-ed up on this drive as long as it's on a different partition, right?
[10:51] <AlanBell> the installer won't touch partitions you don't tell it to
[10:52] <AlanBell> so read carefully which partitions it is talking about :)
[10:52] <Halexander9000> I purposefully made it an ntsf partition. So I can't accidentally select it as a root partition.
[10:53] <Halexander9000> But... now that I think of it... it can't seem to read it anymore after the whole "installer" fiasco.
[10:53] <Halexander9000> Did it remain unmounted?
[10:54] <Halexander9000> Because I set it to be permanently mounted in root in a folder called FileStorage
[10:54] <Halexander9000> But the installed asked me to unmount sdb for some reason.
[10:54] <Halexander9000> installer*\
[10:55] <Halexander9000> Oh dear...
[10:56] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: Um, help?
[10:56] <Halexander9000> Please?
[10:57] <AlanBell> I don't really know what your situation is
[10:57] <Halexander9000> Ask me anything! Just... help me get that data back. Please!
[10:58] <AlanBell> why do you think it is gone?
[10:59] <Halexander9000> Because I right clicked the folder where it's supposed to be on and under Contents it says "none"
[10:59] <Halexander9000> I think I feel sick...
[11:00] <Halexander9000> There's nothing in there except a stupid loading animation on my cursor.
[11:00] <AlanBell> do you think it is mounted there?
[11:00] <Halexander9000> How do I check?
[11:00] <AlanBell> type mount in a terminal
[11:01] <Halexander9000> Sent the results in a PM addressed to you.
[11:02] <AlanBell> ok, nothing mounted apart from sdb2 on /
[11:02] <AlanBell> sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb
[11:02] <AlanBell> ^^ that will show you what partitions are on the disk
[11:03] <Halexander9000> Done
[11:04] <AlanBell> /dev/sdb3       278530048<PHONE_NUMBER>   837464064    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT <- your data
[11:04] <Halexander9000> how do I mount it back to /FileStorage ?
[11:04] <AlanBell> so sudo mount /dev/sdb3 /home/Halexander9000/FileSTorage
[11:04] <Halexander9000> How*
[11:04] <AlanBell> probably
[11:04] <AlanBell> something like that anyhow
[11:05] <Halexander9000> sudo mount /dev/sdb3 /home/Mihaela/FileStorage ?
[11:06] <AlanBell> sounds about right
[11:06] <Halexander9000> No... I think I know what the problem is. The mount folder is in root, not in home. Adapting...
[11:06] <Halexander9000> There we go!
[11:07] <Halexander9000> Pardon my french but FRAG YEAH!
[11:07] <Halexander9000> Well then... burning that image to a disc now.
[11:11] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: Thanks for everything!
[11:14] <Halexander9000> AlanBell: Oh, and pardon me for asking, but your user name reminds me of Tron for some reason...
[11:15] <AlanBell> :)
[11:15]  * AlanBell wants a light cycle
[11:15]  * Halexander9000 wants a tron horse. Like the one from the music video by DaftPunk.
[11:16]  * Halexander9000 or a tron dragon. A Tron-Toothless-Nightfury maybe?
[11:16] <Halexander9000> That would be awesome.
[11:16] <AlanBell> hehe
[11:17]  * Halexander9000 is burnin-burnin-done with the disc!
[11:17] <Halexander9000> Ah, check-sum...
[11:19]  * Halexander9000 is the proud owner of a Ubuntu 12.10 disc now.
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[11:20] <Halexander9000> Right, see you later on the grid AlanBell ;)
[11:20] <Halexander9000> Goodbye!
[11:26] <Neoti_Laptop> hey people... just been excited to hear about 12.10... so looked on youtube and  theres people not happy with the new release... even some long time supporter has said its a crap release..... should i trust the hype about this ... whats going on ?
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Laptop: Some people will always say it's bad
[11:27] <AlanBell> Neoti_Laptop: specifically what issues are people finding?
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> And people who ARE happy tend to make fewer blog posts/youtube videos/etc about it
[11:28] <AlanBell> I know that there are problems reading the dash with the orca screen reader, I consider that to be a major fault
[11:28] <AlanBell> however I don't consider the existence of the shopping lens to be a problem at all
[11:28] <penguin42> Neoti_Laptop: Give it a go; if the Amazon stuff is the main gripe it's easy to turn off, other than that I don't think there are many problems
[11:29] <AlanBell> perceptions of a release are different from person to person, I suspect there are people out there who thing different things are important to them
[11:29] <Neoti_Laptop> sloness in searchs due to amazone. (yes it can be turned off.) nvidia drivers causing problems... 3 people listed the amd start up error as a bug... etc...
[11:29] <penguin42> which AMD startup error?
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks vs http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks
[11:29] <Neoti_Laptop> sorry about spelling.... lol
[11:29] <AlanBell> ok, I don't have nvidea or AMD so I don't think those problems are important :)
[11:29] <Neoti_Laptop> @AlanBell - Lolz....
[11:30] <AlanBell> all about perception :)
[11:30] <Neoti_Laptop> yep...
[11:30] <AlanBell> the amazon search seems kind of quick to me, but I have 70Mbit broadband
[11:30] <Neoti_Laptop> i was about to upgrade, but i think i'll leave it for a bit... maybe until 12.04 or something ...
[11:30] <Neoti_Laptop> im happy with 12.04.....
[11:31] <AlanBell> I do think that the amazon turn off switch has been terribly badly implemented, but I think they will do better soon
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> you don't have to upgrade
[11:31] <penguin42> AlanBell: I guess it was a bit of a rush job
[11:31] <AlanBell> I think unity is better generally in 12.10 than 12.04
[11:31] <AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, and they did it the hard way that doesn't work
[11:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: I think the llvmpipe stuff isn't necessarily stable yet; so people who were on unity-2d may have a significant amount of pain
[11:32] <AlanBell> both of them will be most upset
[11:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: It's not that unusual
[11:32] <AlanBell> llvmpipe will happen in virtualbox and on computers more than about 7 years old
[11:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: Lots of people used unity-2d
[11:34] <AlanBell> oh, and USB displaylink devices
[11:34] <AlanBell> but apart from that, not having a GPU is a bit of an edge case
[11:35] <AlanBell> there are some things that don't correctly use the powerful GPU that they have
[11:35] <AlanBell> like some ARM boards
[11:35] <penguin42> AlanBell: There were also people who found unity-2d more stable with the closed graphics drivers/cards they had, and/or found it more responsive
[11:36] <AlanBell> but in almost all cases you are better off throwing the "move lots of pixels about" job to the GPU and saving the CPU for important stuff
[11:36] <Laney> hahaha the UDS hotel showers
[11:36] <penguin42> Laney: ?
[11:36] <Laney> see Daviey @ G+
[11:37] <AlanBell> penguin42: sure, there are situations where the GPU doesn't get properly used, those situations should be fixed rather than moving the task to other silicone
[11:37] <AlanBell> silicon
[11:37] <AlanBell> do I want to look at a picture of Daviey in the shower??
[11:37] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yep, I'm just saying that dropping -2d forces peoples hand, which to force things to get fixed isn't necessariyl bad, but it'll get a group of people with broken situations
[11:39] <AlanBell> yeah
[11:39] <AlanBell> gnome shell is a good alternative to unity-2d
[11:39] <AlanBell> Laney: oh wow
[11:39] <penguin42> AlanBell: That's also requiring 3d now isn't it?
[11:40] <Laney> I daresay they look slightly worse than brussels
[11:41] <AlanBell> penguin42: err, good point, it uses llvmpipe too on non-3d situations
[11:42] <AlanBell> it is faster than unity for the unfashionable, but still used task of "running an application that I have on my computer and I want to run"
[11:43] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh, I'd noticed in a vm gnome3's shell was pretty responsive - unity seems to trigger an X (server) crash in kvm pretty reliably every few minutes in Quantal as well which is unfortunate
[11:43] <SuperMatt> afternoon, all
[11:44] <AlanBell> not tried unity in KVM yet, don't think there would be any accelleration there
[11:44] <penguin42> AlanBell: Correct, no acceleration
[11:44] <AlanBell> the virtualbox stuff should work but I think unity is broken and doesn't use it
[11:44] <penguin42> AlanBell: It's certainly a heck of a lot more stable than in the Alpha's and Beta's - during the Alpha's the KVM guests were crashing seconds after login
[11:45] <AlanBell> wonder what virtualisation the Canonical folk use
[11:45] <penguin42> AlanBell: I can't remember the bug number, but the current KVM one seemed to be a pretty repeatable xserver bug
[11:46] <AlanBell> or is it all done on hardware, which would explain why the alt/super key grabbing hasn't been addressed
[11:53] <penguin42> AlanBell: You'd think the devs would be trying new versions on their laptops without breaking there main install
[12:17] <Supermanintights> Hi..  I think I may have messed up (denial), and just lost 700mb of data on my external.  My external drives keep changing it's partition format to Fat32 or something other than NTFS (which is what I always set it to), and I just tried to change it back, and basically it deleted all my stuff.  While I admit this is probably my fault, is there a way to undo/recover my information - I changed it via gparted.
[12:33] <penguin42> Supermanintights: It's an odd thing for a drive to change its format by itself
[12:45] <Supermanintights> it's happened 3x on two different USB drives
[12:46] <Supermanintights> granted the latest one is my fault trying to reverse the change, but my external drives have a tendency to just change format.  Normally to 'unformatted'
[12:46] <Supermanintights> which is the case for my 2tb drive that has been unused for about 18 months :(
[12:56] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Interesting, I've been helping someone with a USB external drive corruption he's seeing; he's tracked it a long way - he thinks he's currently got it down to only happening on Ubuntu desktop installs but not server, and has some wireshark captured traces
[12:56] <penguin42> Supermanintights: So, what do you think you actually did with gparted - just changed the partition table or something more than that?
[12:57] <Supermanintights> with gparted, I just tried to change it from msdos fat32 to ntfs, but didn't consider I'd lose my data (I've changed partition type without loss of data once before, but I don't remember the specifics)
[12:57] <Supermanintights> so unmouted, right click, format, then ntfs.  I feel more and more retarded everytime I think about it.
[12:58] <Supermanintights> Regarding the corruption in the past - it's happened on ubuntu and windows, and seems to be random - it works, I turn laptop off, turn it on the next day and it's just changed itself to unformatted - but if I get a recovery software (windows), I can actually recover the data without any loss
[13:00] <Supermanintights> someone on the ubuntu main has told me to do a dd thing to try and image the disc as part of backup, but terminal seems to just be sat working since I ran it.
[13:06] <penguin42> Supermanintights: If you did format as ntfs I suspect you've lost it; there might be some recovery stuff that can pull blocks apart individually, but I don't know which bits an ntfs overwrites
[13:07] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Tell me a bit about the drive ?
[13:07] <Supermanintights> the corrupted? well it's been two drives
[13:07] <Supermanintights> both WD
[13:07] <Supermanintights> the first one (and the one I just screwed today) is a Western Digital 1TB MyBook
[13:07] <penguin42> are they WD branded external drives, or are they WD drives in a 3rd party enclosure?
[13:07] <penguin42> ah ok, all WD branded
[13:09] <Supermanintights> the 2tb (the one that's been set as unformatted for 18 months is a WD 2TB Essentials
[13:09] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Changing the partition type should be fairly safe, reformatting is a bad idea
[13:10] <penguin42> Supermanintights: It's also really odd to have a change like that happen rather than just a more random corruption; what's the host machine and are the drives externally powered or via a hub?
[13:10] <Supermanintights> all I did was right click, format as NTFS
[13:11] <Supermanintights> which change - normally, it corrupts/changes by going from formatted (normally NTFS) to 'unformatted' (according to ubuntu when I check it out)
[13:11] <Supermanintights> this one was where it changed itself from NTFS to MS DOS / FAT32
[13:11] <penguin42> ah ok, sorry I thought you said it went from NTFS to Fat
[13:12] <penguin42> yeh, the formatted to unformatted makes sense as a corruption; the NTFS-fat is a bit weirder
[13:12] <Supermanintights> this time it did, which was weird, because I never use FAT32, except as a tiny partition if I'm transferring to my PS3
[13:12] <Supermanintights> but this was my entire drive - and I'd not touched it for a while as it was left at home.  All my data was still on it, but it was just formatted as MSDOS according to win7, when I checked it out in Gparted, it was set to FAT32
[13:13] <penguin42> Supermanintights: MSDOS and FAT32 are approximately the same
[13:14] <Supermanintights> It's not like I even abuse the drives, I don't tend to touch them mostly, they're just left in my laptop for the most part
[13:14] <Supermanintights> (they're external ones that have a plug)
[13:15] <penguin42> Supermanintights: And what's the laptop out of interest?
[13:15] <Supermanintights> the ntfs-fat change, I hadn't used this drive in about 12 months, I knew there was data on there, but just hadn't ever needed to use it until my laptop crashed and I went to back it up, but when certain files kept failing to transfer (my large ones) - thats when I looked into it and saw the format change.
[13:16] <Supermanintights> Toshiba Satellite A-500
[13:16] <Supermanintights> (17-X)
[13:17] <penguin42> ok
[13:17] <penguin42> hmm
[13:17] <penguin42> that's a weird set of problems
[13:17] <penguin42> (as was the problem described by the other person)
[13:18] <Supermanintights> yup, the fact it just corrupts itself is weird - but to have it change as ntfs-fat32 is just weird, especially as all my data is there - and there's more data on there than was space on my laptop, so I definitely hadn't changed it myself and forgot about it (not that I'd ever need to)
[13:26] <Supermanintights> ok, so it appears to have made an image back up of my drive.  I've no idea what to do with it but now I'm going to try and recover this
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: so you have one file which contains the entire disk, with partition table etc?
[13:27] <Supermanintights> ironically, I just backed up everything from my dead laptop onto that that I needed, and my laptop won't even boot a live usb of ubuntu for me to go back and recover it again if needed
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: If so, kpartx is your friend.
[13:27] <Supermanintights> I assume so.  I followed advice from someone else
[13:27] <Supermanintights> sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/backup.dd bs=4M
[13:27] <Supermanintights> That was the command I ran
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> yup
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> then your _entire drive_ is in backup.dd
[13:28] <Supermanintights> it's 55gb - does that seem right size for you?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> if your disk is 60GB..
[13:28] <Supermanintights> :(
[13:28] <Supermanintights> it's 1tb capacity, there was at least 750gb at the last count
[13:30] <Supermanintights> This is one of those moments where I really wish I could just wake up and start the day again.
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> talk to SuperEngineer
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[13:30] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Are you sure sdb was the right drive to backup?
[13:30] <penguin42> Supermanintights: If you're seeing this many things going south, I'd really suggest running a memtest for a few hours
[13:31] <Supermanintights> I think so - that's what it said on Gparted, but 55gb seems to be closer for the amount of data that's on my main disk
[13:32] <Supermanintights> 62.95GiB used on my main drive - but it says /dev/sda(1) on gparted
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> what does 'file backup.dd' say?
[13:32] <Supermanintights> Do i type that in terminal?
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> yes, without the ''
[13:33] <Supermanintights> backup.dd: ERROR: cannot open `backup.dd' (No such file or directory)
[13:33] <Supermanintights> (sorry if I'm supposed to use pastebin on that)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> Type the full path to your backup file :)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> instead of just "backup.dd"
[13:34] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Don't worry about using pastebin unless it's more than about 3 lines
[13:34] <Supermanintights> "/backup.dd: x86 boot sector; partition 1: ID=0x7, starthead 254, startsector 2,<PHONE_NUMBER> sectors, code offset 0xb8
[13:34] <Supermanintights> "
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> ah
[13:35]  * Supermanintights hopes that is a good 'ah'
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: it's a partial backup (first 55GB) of your 1TB disk
[13:35] <Supermanintights> oh, ok
[13:35] <MartijnVdS><PHONE_NUMBER> * 512 bytes =<PHONE_NUMBER>00 bytes =~ 1TB
[13:36] <Supermanintights> both my internal and my external drives are 1tb if that makes a difference
[13:36] <Supermanintights> how can I back up the next several 55gb?
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> the disk named "sdb"
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> by not backing up to / but to the place where you mounted a disk that's big enough to hold everything :)
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> (so the same "dd if=" thing, but instead of "/backup.dd" use "/where-ever-you-mounted/backup.dd")
[13:38] <Supermanintights> is that just the 750gb - or the full 1tb, I've had more than what's currently on there in the past, this is probably that drive's 4th reincarnation if that makes sense
[13:39] <dogmatic69> anyone noticed when a window takes focus, the bar at the top is not for the window..
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: full 1TB, but there are ways to back up only the "used" space
[13:39] <dogmatic69> eg: I plug my phone in, and a nautilis window pops up with the files right. Click the X and the previous window (chrome) closed.
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ooh, annoying :) Never seen that myself
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I've seen the popup come up without focus, so Alt+F4 would close the wrong window
[13:40] <dogmatic69> very. Even though it has 'focus' I have to click in the window before the top bar is showing the correct thing.
[13:40] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ye, I think that is the same thing.
[13:40] <dogmatic69> its on top but does not actually have focus.
[13:40] <Supermanintights> dogmatic69, granted this is on ubuntu, but I know that similar can happen with windows if an app is 'always on top' but you say have clicked another window behind and alt+f4 - that may be completely twaddle but it might be relevant
[13:41] <dogmatic69> Supermanintights: no, there is def something strange going on.
[13:41] <dogmatic69> Say this second window just poped up. and its small so you can still see other windows behind.
[13:41] <dogmatic69> no matter what you click that new window will not go away.
[13:41] <dogmatic69> you have to first click it to have 'proper focus' and then click away.
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I use sloppy focus, I thought my bug was related to that
[13:43] <dogmatic69> what is sloppy focus?
[13:43] <dogmatic69> maybe I have that too.
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: focus-follows-mouse
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> (but don't unfocus when mouse is over desktop)
[13:45] <dogmatic69> ah, dont think I have that.
[14:01] <AlanBell> so *thats* what that fuse is connected to
[14:05] <penguin42> AlanBell: ?
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Wiring mysteries?
[14:06] <AlanBell> yeah, was fixing a fan in the bathroom
[14:06] <AlanBell> flicked the wrong switch in the consumer unit earlier and reset my server
[14:08]  * MartijnVdS had them all labelled when they replaced the kitchen
[14:08] <AlanBell> all computers should have a small laptop battery in them
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> (and added a few new outlets)
[14:09] <AlanBell> yeah, I have three labeled "sockets"
[14:09] <AlanBell> will be clarifying those lables later :)
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you know the small UPSes APC sells right? :)
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE700G-GR&total_watts=200
[14:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon all. Can a few of you try this for me and see if it breaks? http://web-dev.libertus.co.uk/vdash/
[14:10] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: looks very nice
[14:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can click on the chart or the table to the right.
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or, the UK version: http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE700G-UK&total_watts=300
[14:10] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: some UTF8 issue for the £ signs
[14:11] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: that is the wrong side of the transformer though
[14:11] <AlanBell> the UPS should be on the low voltage DC side
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: You plug your PC into the UPS, which plugs into the wall.. so if the wall loses power it doesn't matter as much
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> but hmm. DC side UPS
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> That would rock
[14:12] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeh, I'm seeing the same blob for the the £
[14:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - So where do I fix that then? The data is in a MySQL db and is UTF-8 encoded?
[14:13] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, the UPS is a 12v battery (normally) but they step it up to 240 and make it AC just to turn it back again
[14:14] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: in the doctype perhaps?
[14:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah ha.
[14:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> $mysqli->set_charset("utf8")
[14:15] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: in firefox if I go to dev tools - character encoding and select western rather than utf-8 I get £ signs
[14:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Should be OK now.
[14:16] <AlanBell> yes, is OK now
[14:16] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: You can do arbitrary html injection on the parameter
[14:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> But does it do anything?
[14:16] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: http://web-dev.libertus.co.uk/vdash/?ind=Penguin+Cleaner%3CH1%3EHello%3C/H1%3E
[14:16] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: It just gets included
[14:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[14:17] <popey> Pip pip!
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> It's Alan Hour!
[14:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is going into Job Centres I think so I doubt many will know what SQL injection is, but thanks. I will do a bit more screening.
[14:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> The db user only has SELECT though.
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you're using parameterized queries, I hope? :)
[14:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
[14:18] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: someone could send someone a URL with javascript in the URL that loads nasty stuff from that domain if that domain is a trusted one
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> then that bit is safe :)
[14:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Say that in English please?
[14:20] <AlanBell> http://web-dev.libertus.co.uk/vdash/?ind=job%3Cscript%3Ewindow.alert%28%22evil%20stuff%20goes%20here%22%29%3C/script%3E
[14:20] <popey> \o/ Alans
[14:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok. I see. Thanks.
[14:20]  * popey is making the most of free booze at the airport
[14:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Will clean up the $_REQUEST processor
[14:20] <penguin42> popey: That's the fuel!
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: Free booze? You must be a frequent flyer ;)
[14:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[14:21] <popey> this is the _best_ lounge I have ever been in
[14:21] <popey> games room lounge, those silly hanging chairs from the 60s
[14:21] <popey> did I mention the booze? :)
[14:22] <AlanBell> popey: which airport?
[14:22] <popey> LHR T3
[14:23] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: The trick would be to mail someone something like 'Hey, this job we were talking about <url> sounds good, can you ... for me' - now if the URL then did something like have a script that did something else as the user who is logged in the person who sent the URL could get the internal system to do soemthing
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: AlanBell Is it better now?
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can still type crap but I don't think it will do anything disatrous.
[14:42] <AlanBell> yeah, looks like it strips out tags or something
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> strip_tags, htmlentities and nl2br
[14:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah, blast - the ones with "&" in them now don't work ;-)
[14:48] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Looks like it's safe against someone like me who doesn't know much HTML
[14:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think I will just stop converting the string to htmlenitities. The strip tags should fix most.
[14:49] <AlanBell> & was a really poor choice of special symbol
[14:49] <AlanBell> bet that was tim berners lee
[14:49] <penguin42> AlanBell: You're not going to strip his knighthood for that are you
[14:49] <AlanBell> he should be stripped of the knighthood for that one
[14:50] <AlanBell> I totally would, yes :)
[14:50] <AlanBell> whoever came up with comma separated values too
[14:51] <AlanBell> and apostrophes as quotation marks
[14:51] <AlanBell> line them all up against a wall
[14:53] <popey> yay, $coworker has arrived to keep me company
[14:54] <penguin42> popey: And your intention is to pickle $coworker as fast?
[14:56] <popey> \o/ beer
[14:57] <popey> trying to imbibe as much as possible in as short a time as possible
[14:57] <popey> copenhagen isnt cheap for beer
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> that afraid of flying?
[15:04] <popey> haha
[15:04] <popey> right, flying time
[15:04] <popey> ttfn
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> \o
[15:07] <christel> <3 copenhagen
[15:07] <christel> BUY ALL THE DANISH THINGS
[15:07] <christel> (infact, buy denmark and give it to me for christmas)
[15:07] <christel> :D:D:D
[15:08] <penguin42> butter biscuits ?
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> christel: But.. isn't that the wrong Scandinavian country?
[15:09] <christel> ah see i LOVE denmark
[15:09] <christel> (for shopping!)
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> christel: but their vowels are ALL WRONG
[15:09] <christel> it has ALL the best (interior/homewarez) shops!
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> but how do you get those things back to your house?
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> Most interior stuff won't fit in carry-on, or even checked luggage!
[15:12] <christel> yeah that is the problem! you need a shipping container
[15:12] <christel> and then the wait is like UBER LONG
[15:13]  * christel looks shifty
[15:13] <penguin42> we've got Clas Olson and Ikea - how much more random European housewares could you need
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> christel: Good thing you Scandinavians have a stranglehold on the shipping market ;)
[15:21] <christel> hehehe
[15:40] <Myrtti> myh. https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/DeR8UwPQAsd
[15:41] <Myrtti> it's super annoying
[15:43] <AlanBell> oh, I have to file a bug about that indicator too
[15:45] <Myrtti> I don't even know where to start looking what's failing
[15:47] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/application-indicators/ possibly
[15:47] <AlanBell> where it says indicators are more accessible no less
[15:48] <AlanBell> "checkbox item not checked" is what all the availability entries are read as
[15:48] <AlanBell> except for the selected one which is checkbox item checked
[15:52] <AlanBell> Myrtti: what do you have in http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/
[15:52] <SuperMatt> has anyone tried installing proprietary nvidia drivers on a fresh quantal install?
[15:53] <SuperMatt> I've given it a go, but it doesn't work
[15:53] <SuperMatt> it's like the module isn't loading
[15:54] <AlanBell> Myrtti: you should have a file in there called gm-notify which contains /usr/share/gm-notify/gm-notify.desktop
[15:54] <oimon> saw someone else complaining on reddit bout that SuperMatt
[15:54] <SuperMatt> orly?
[15:55]  * oimon is waiting for a sick bug to hit the rest of the household as his toddler has the bug :(
[15:55] <Myrtti> AlanBell: hold on, relogging in
[15:55] <oimon> in quarantine for a week, just as my week off comes
[15:58] <AlanBell> Myrtti: I don't have the gmail-notifier turning up in the messaging menu yet, but I do have thunderbird
[15:58] <AlanBell> and gwibber and empathy
[15:59] <oimon> Myrtti: you looking for a gmail notifier?
[16:00] <Myrtti> oimon: in a way, yes
[16:01] <oimon> i use checkgmail
[16:01] <Myrtti> oimon: I have gm-notify, but it's not showing up where it should.
[16:01]  * MartijnVdS just has a (pinned) tab open on gmail -- its favicon tells me if I have mail
[16:01] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: yeah I have that too - for those times I'm in the browser.
[16:01] <oimon> Myrtti: have you edited the whitelist?
[16:02] <oimon> i use" gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Panel systray-whitelist "['JavaEmbeddedFrame', 'Wine', 'Update-notifier', 'clementine', 'Checkgmail']"
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I'm always in the browser.. or I'm coding and then I don't want to be interrupted by email :)
[16:03] <Myrtti> oimon: whitelist?
[16:04] <oimon> Myrtti: it allows apps on the unity systray that use the old systray
[16:04] <AlanBell> no oimon this is an appindicator
[16:04] <AlanBell> not a whitelist issue
[16:04] <oimon> oh sorry, missed start of convo
[16:05] <Myrtti> StartupNotify=False
[16:05] <Myrtti> interesting
[16:07] <Myrtti> also the Empathy indicator claims I'm online, but when I start empathy for real, it's offline and starts to log in.
[16:09] <AlanBell> hmm, those availability things belong to empathy do they?
[16:09] <Myrtti> well I assume so - Empathy is the only thing in my messaging menu
[16:09] <AlanBell> yeah, not sure if they belong to empathy or the messaging menu itself
[16:10] <AlanBell>  /usr/bin/gm-notify is a python script and at the end is addMailboxIndicators
[16:10] <AlanBell> looks like that should publish stuff into the messaging menu, and on startup the messaging menu should poke it to do that
[16:15] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gm-notify/+bug/1040259
[16:15] <AlanBell> I think that epic bug is a "we broke everything" kind of bug
[16:16] <Myrtti> oh my dear god
[16:18] <AlanBell> backwards compatibility is for wimps
[16:20] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gwibber/libmessaging-menu-port/+merge/120961 is the merge that fixed it in gwibber
[16:20] <AlanBell> first bit is swapping an import of indicate for an import of MessagingMenu
[16:20] <AlanBell> /usr/bin/gm-notify still imports indicate and not messagingmenu so it looks like this problem
[16:22] <AlanBell> what a complete pain
[16:34] <Myrtti> well atleast I know it's a bug now
[16:34] <Myrtti> and know what bug to watch
[16:44] <Myrtti> I wonder should I just give up and do a clean reinstall.
[16:58] <jacobw> i seem to remember this working perfectly well while everyone followed the freedesktop.org standards ..
[17:13] <Azelphur> how to troll my cousin while he's trying to play playstation online,  cat /dev/zero | ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>"cat >> /dev/null"
[17:13]  * Azelphur puts evil face on
[17:15] <mgdm> you send him one character over ssh?
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: /dev/zero is an unending stream of \0
[17:15] <mgdm> when I do 'cat /dev/zero' I just get one
[17:15] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:15] <mgdm> I'd need to use dd to get more
[17:16] <Azelphur> indeed, /dev/zero is an unending stream
[17:16] <Azelphur> so it frags the crap outta the upload and makes him lag like a bitch
[17:16] <mgdm> Yes, I know what /dev/zero is, ffs
[17:16] <Azelphur> :p
[17:16] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: cat /dev/zero "hangs" for me -- its producing an endless stream
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> \0 != EOF :)
[17:16] <mgdm> I know that too
[17:25] <Supermanintights> interesting, I may steal that for when I want to get my brother off the playstation
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: just seed an Ubuntu ISO :)
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> That's way more useful than /dev/zero ;)
[17:25] <Supermanintights> haha
[17:26] <Supermanintights> it always seems to lag on me whenever I use it, yet he never ever experiences problems.  I suspect foul play.
[17:37] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I find md5sum /dev/zero is a great way to keep a core busy.....
[17:37] <dwatkins_> put a remote power switch on the router and turn it off every few minutes?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Great idea :)
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: md5sum /dev/urandom if you want 2 cores busy
[17:39] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm - does it end up doing the urandomness on another core?
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: it should
[17:40] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm not what I'm seeing, I'm seeing a single core, mostly in system
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: hmmm
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: would that be a bug or a feature?
[17:40] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm, I think generally when the kernel does something for a process it's really in the same process
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah.. unless it's really special
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: like fuse (and other?) FSes
[17:42] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I'm not quite sure how it handles fuse; but I suspect that what you've got there is the fuse process doing the work filling the data, and you've still got your using process; so as long as your using process doesn't block it can use cpu while the kernel gets on with stuff
[17:42] <penguin42> hmm, can you use AIO on /dev/random?
[17:43] <MartijnVdS> Yes
[17:43] <MartijnVdS> Otherwise gnupg couldn't tell you to mash some buttons to get more randomness
[17:43] <penguin42> ah sorry, I meant can you use AIO on /dev/urandom
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> sure, it's just another device/file :)
[17:45] <bigcalm[mob]> Attending an ice hockey match and bored of our team's lack of skill
[17:46] <bigcalm[mob]> 2 goals down and we're into the 2nd period
[17:46] <penguin42> bigcalm[mob]: Well, get down there and show how it's done
[17:46] <bigcalm[mob]> Ha
[17:47] <bigcalm[mob]> Individually they are good. Just terrible as a team right now
[17:49] <bigcalm[mob]> And for the last 2 seasons. We're bottom of the league for a reason :-)
[17:51] <bigcalm[mob]> Lass next to me can't stop shouting
[17:52] <penguin42> then move your hand....
[17:52] <bigcalm[mob]> Where?
[17:53] <penguin42> ...off her
[17:53] <bigcalm[mob]> Haha
[17:56] <knightwise> hey everyone
[17:56] <knightwise> eeevenin
[17:59] <bigcalm[mob]> Now 3 goals down
[17:59] <bigcalm[mob]> 4 goals down
[18:01] <knightwise> got a little problem here
[18:02] <knightwise> hooking up a secondary display to my macbook air via a VGA cable
[18:02] <knightwise> but ubuntu doesnt recognise the screen
[18:02] <knightwise> so it gives it a resolution of 1024
[18:03] <knightwise> while its a 23 inch screen that can handle 1600 by 1080
[18:03] <knightwise> any ideas  ?
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> read-edid | parse-edid
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> ?
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> check the xorg log for EDID/DCC info?
[18:03] <penguin42> knightwise: Which Ubuntu version, do you know which video chip it has?
[18:03] <knightwise> 12.04
[18:04] <knightwise> erm .. i'm not realy sure what videcard i have
[18:04] <bigcalm[mob]> 5 goals down
[18:04] <penguin42> knightwise: OK, try what MartijnVdS was saying, and show the output (via a pastebin?) - also check if there are any 'additional drivers' that can be added
[18:05] <bigcalm[mob]> This is as depressing as always
[18:06] <knightwise> io eror reading edid ?
[18:06] <bigcalm[mob]> I thought that vga didn't sand any display information from the monitor
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you pastebin the /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[18:07] <knightwise> just checked for additional drivers
[18:07] <knightwise> negative on that
[18:07] <bigcalm[mob]> Pastebinit \o/
[18:08] <knightwise> http://pastebin.com/XHNwEKUe
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> 'negatory'
[18:08] <penguin42> bigcalm[mob]: vga has a edid in the same/similar way to DVI - or should be
[18:09] <penguin42> bigcalm[mob]: Old VGA didn't have much back when it 1st came out
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: is this one of the Macs with 2 graphics cards? Intel+NVidia?
[18:09] <knightwise> dumb , its a great screen but it only has vga :(
[18:09] <knightwise> no , its a macbook air
[18:09] <knightwise> 11.6
[18:09] <knightwise> latest model
[18:09] <bigcalm[mob]> Ah. I have a feeling that my crts must have been pants
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> Doesn't that come with 2 graphics cards? Intel+NVidia?
[18:10] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Looks both connected via Intel to me, external via display port
[18:10] <knightwise> http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
[18:11] <penguin42> knightwise: How is the VGA connected - some wacky dongle ?
[18:11] <penguin42> knightwise: 'VGA output using Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter (sold separately)' - one of those?
[18:11] <dogmatic69> would anyone be able to help me do the following without inkscape?
[18:11] <dogmatic69> inkscape -z -e /output/path.png -w 800 /input/path.svg
[18:12] <bittin> am i welcome and where in UK can i stay?
[18:12] <dogmatic69> basically convert a svg to png with scaling.
[18:12] <knightwise> yep
[18:12] <knightwise> mini display adapter
[18:12] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Try 'convert'
[18:12] <knightwise> penguin42: confirmed
[18:12] <dogmatic69> penguin42: I did try that before, but could not seem to make it work properly.
[18:12] <penguin42> knightwise: hmm, so it looks like you have a bug there - not quite sure where the bug is; but please report it for starters;   ubuntu-bug xorg
[18:13] <penguin42> dogmatic69: What did it do?
[18:13] <dogmatic69> my svgs may only be 20px wide for example, and want to generate a 800px wide file. It was just pixelated.
[18:13] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Ah, so you don't want to do a scale after the render
[18:13] <dogmatic69> hold on, let me see if I have it in the git logs still.
[18:13] <dogmatic69> penguin42: ye.
[18:13] <dogmatic69> exactly that.
[18:13] <knightwise> Its funny , when I do the same thing with my 13 inch mac
[18:13] <knightwise> there is no problem
[18:14] <knightwise> penguin42: perhaps I should give it a try in 11.10
[18:14] <penguin42> knightwise: It's probably just a funny of the way it's wired on that version of the mac - you could try 11.10 - or better, try 12.10
[18:14] <penguin42> knightwise: Otherwise, it looks to me like you should use xrandr to forcibly add the resolution, it's a bit tricky but it normally works
[18:14] <dogmatic69> penguin42: I am doing this in php. I could for example read the xml in and replace the numbers and pipe to convert but there must be a better way.
[18:15] <penguin42> dogmatic69: What parameters are you using to convert? I'd suggest -geometry
[18:15] <knightwise> i meant 12.10 :)
[18:15] <penguin42> knightwise: A lot of the devs use macs, so it's worse trying the latest one because there is always some catch up on the latest ones, but otherwise try and use xrandr to add the mode to that output
[18:15] <knightwise> too bad , got the system working like a charm on 12.04 right now
[18:15] <penguin42> knightwise: Then use xrandr
[18:15] <knightwise> real nice machine :) some tweaks , keyboard mappings adjusted and all that :)
[18:15] <knightwise> xrandr ?
[18:16] <penguin42> knightwise: It's a command to manipulate the x-resizing-and-rotation system
[18:16] <dogmatic69> penguin42: found this in my git logs before switching to inkscape `convert $file -resize $size $target`;
[18:16] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Yeh, try using -geometry rather than -resize
[18:16] <dogmatic69> ok, will try that. Thanks
[18:17] <penguin42> knightwise: You'll need to use xrandr --newmode to tell it what your monitor can do, and then   xrandr   --addmode DP1   to associate that new mode with your monitor; you'll be able to drop those commands in your .profile/.bashrc and it should pick them up on login
[18:17]  * penguin42 disappears to eat his crumble  - back shortly
[18:18] <knightwise> hmmm. looks VERY complicated :)
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: you can do it
[18:18] <knightwise> i know i can :)
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: you're a techie, right?
[18:18] <knightwise> I am a techie :p
[18:19] <knightwise> need to look at this and see how to do it. make sure i have the specs for the seconf monitor right
[18:19]  * knightwise needs to sit down with coffee for this
[18:19] <dogmatic69> penguin42++
[18:19] <dogmatic69> penguin42: thanks, that seems to work.
[18:20] <knightwise> gonna give it a try tomorrow (when i'm behind my machine and have some time to get down and try this)
[18:28] <Myrtti> so the next question is, how do I get rid of Webapps I don't want.
[18:37] <AlanBell> Myrtti: did you get them working in Firefox?
[18:37] <Myrtti> I haven't used Firefox since Boudicca and Iceni
[18:40] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Great!
[18:47] <ali1234> Myrtti: http://askubuntu.com/questions/166655/how-do-i-remove-a-website-from-ubuntus-web-applications
[19:17] <MarbleMad> Hi, Trying to install EAGLE but I'm a bit of a linux newby and I don't know how to install the required  libraries libssl.so.1.0.0 and libcrypto.so.1.0.0.  Can anyone offer some advice? I'm using ubuntu10.04 and don't want to upgrade as that opens a whole other can of worms.
[19:19] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get install libssl1.0.0 probably
[19:20] <AlanBell> and libcrypto++9
[19:20] <AlanBell> maybe
[19:20] <AlanBell> actually probably both are in libssl
[19:20] <MarbleMad> ok will give that a shot. thanks.
[19:22] <jacobw> MarbleMad: dpkg can show you which packages provide which files, dpkg-query -S 'libssl*' will show all packages that provides files matching that pattern
[19:27] <Darael> !info libssl1.0.0 lucid
[19:27] <Darael> Ah.  That's the package that would have them.  Check for a ppa?
[19:29] <AlanBell> eww
[19:30] <AlanBell> !info eagle
[19:30] <Darael> !eagle lucid
[19:30] <Darael> ...
[19:30] <Darael> !info eagle lucid
[19:30] <AlanBell> install that then
[19:30] <Darael> MarbleMad: Is there any reason not to use the version of eagle that's /in/ Lucid?
[19:30] <MarbleMad> Managed to find an older version of eagle that works so. Thanks folks. I'm good.
[19:31] <MarbleMad> yeh that's the one i'm using i think. I got confused tring to use the version on the eagle web site :)
[19:31] <Darael> For future reference, looking to see if something's already in the repositories should be the /first/ thing to try.
[19:31] <MarbleMad> thanks.
[19:32] <Darael> Getting things off websites is suboptimal, not least because setting them up is often a lot more effort that way.
[19:35] <ali1234> eagle was definitely in 10.04
[19:35] <ali1234> it was a bit buggy though when used with compiz
[19:35] <Darael> Well, I'm sure MarbleMad will find that out if they're using compiz.
[19:36] <ali1234> yeah. basically all fonts go transparent. it's really weird
[19:36] <Darael> Fascinating.
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> even quantal has Eagle...
[19:36] <ali1234> sure. it's in the repositories, why wouldn't it?
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: license
[19:37] <ali1234> there is plenty of propietary software in ubuntu
[19:37] <Darael> Some things /have/ disappeared from repos between releases.  Usually because there was a strictly more functional replacement, but still.
[19:37] <ali1234> yeah like ktechlab
[19:38] <ali1234> no replacement though
[19:52] <Guest14009> anyone know how to cycle through irc channels in weechat?
[19:58] <Guest14009> ah, F5 and F6 do it
[19:59] <mgdm> Did you hit every key on the keyboard to try and find that out? :)
[20:01] <Guest14009> did a bit of duckduckgoing
[20:01] <Guest14009> i'm trying latest build of elementary
[20:01] <Guest14009> have to say it's the best linux experience i've had in years
[20:02] <Guest14009> slick & lightweight
[20:02] <Guest14009> and works how i expect/want it to
[20:06] <Guest14009> wife looking over shoulder "ooh thats pretty"
[20:07] <Guest14009> exit
[20:21] <directhex> 256GB previous-gen SSD for <£100. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-021-CR&groupid=701&catid=2104&subcat=2394
[20:22] <ali1234> is humble bundle stuff installable on 12.10 yet?
[20:30] <ali1234> directhex: are the 32GB V4s just as good?
[20:31] <ali1234> 32GB would be enough for my /
[20:32] <directhex> ali1234: no. most SSDs scale performance with size, because the speed is determined by the number of NAND chips that can be accessed simultaneously, and the bigger the drive the more NAND chips
[20:32] <ali1234> i see.
[20:32] <directhex> so not just as good. good enough? maybe.
[20:32] <ali1234> still faster than a HD though right?
[20:33] <directhex> yes
[20:40] <ali1234> demon has changed their packages again
[20:40] <ali1234> they now offer "truly" unlimited downloads and "unlimited" static IPs
[20:42] <mgdm> are the static IPs on v6? :)
[20:43] <ali1234> no, demon do not support v6
[20:45] <jacobw> hmm?
[20:47] <ali1234> "We will absolutely adopt IPv6. However at this stage we have more than  enough IPs to last us for a good few years. We are looking to run trials  in a year's time. "
[20:47] <ali1234> posted 7 days ago
[20:47] <mgdm> blimey
[20:47] <ali1234> actually i am fairly sure they have a 6to4 tunnel
[20:47] <ali1234> they just don't advertise it
[20:48] <ali1234> i haven't got around to testing it though
[20:48] <ali1234> maybe i should do that now
[20:48] <shauno> I think it's a shame that running out of v4 is the only feature people see for v6
[20:49] <ali1234> yeah
[20:50] <ali1234> i'll need to put a machine in DMZ for it to receive SIT packets right?
[20:50] <shauno> I like having everything in the house routable, without having to beg my isp for /28 (and a consumer-level router that'd do 1:1 nat)
[21:40] <ali1234> hmmmm
[21:47] <ali1234-v6> \o/
[21:53] <ali1234> so this tunnel is not actually owned by the ISP
[21:54] <ali1234> it seems to be somewhere in russia
[21:54] <ali1234> should i be worried about security?
[21:55] <ali1234> mtr <IP_ADDRESS> goes to relarn.ru, but mtr -6 facebook.com doesn't seem to go through it
[22:34] <Azelphur> Is there any way to make grep print X lines above and below the match?
[22:35] <shauno> like grep -A and grep -B  ?  (After and Before)
[22:35] <Azelphur> cool, ty
[22:36] <mgdm> see also -C (which gives 'context')
[22:37] <mgdm> so grep -C 2 prints 2 lines either side
[22:37] <shauno> nifty, didn't know that one


[09:53] <omairqazi> hi
[09:53] <pranavgade20> hi
[09:54] <pranavgade20> Hi elopio, kyrofa, sergiusens!
[10:09] <konrad11901> popey: you there?
[10:12] <Accelerator> omairqazi: give this a try
[10:12] <Accelerator> omairqazi: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-use-chmod-and-chown-command/
[10:13] <omairqazi> Accelerator: i will try the snapcraft-preload plugin from sergiusens
[10:14] <Accelerator> omairqazi: Alright np..if the plugin does not work then change user permissions :)
[10:15] <omairqazi> ok
[10:23] <coolpolygons> tsimonq2: there?
[10:24] <Accelerator> No..he is offline
[10:25] <coolpolygons> kk
[10:29] <RAI> hi to elopio, kyrofa and sergiusens
[10:30] <RAI> Answer a snapcraft question in askubuntu
[10:30] <daniellimws[m]> Hey RAI, just want to let you know, they will only be online in around 3 hours
[10:30] <daniellimws[m]> Please ask a specific question
[10:31] <daniellimws[m]> We can help but you need to be specific and patient
[10:32] <Accelerator> daniellimws[m]: That task has a step to say hi to those mentors...i don't think he needs any help for now
[10:32] <daniellimws[m]> Ok then
[11:16] <omairqazi> hi popey
[11:16] <popey> hi
[11:17] <konrad11901> oh, popey, hi!
[11:17] <omairqazi> popey: regarding the backslide snap. it works with sudo without classic confinement. but still many commands does not work they say EACCES: permission denied, scandir '/home/omair/backslide'
[11:19] <omairqazi> and for changing the port it says Cannot start server: EACCES: permission denied, rmdir '.tmp'
[11:19] <omairqazi>  popey please help
[11:20] <popey> I'm not sure this is trivially fixable.
[11:21] <omairqazi> popey: but it works with classic confinement
[11:21] <popey> Yes, but it's not something that would get approval in the store for classic.
[11:21] <popey> I don't know who suggested classic to you, but it's frankly not an option
[11:22] <omairqazi> ok
[11:22] <omairqazi> popey: also devmode works with strict confinement
[11:22] <popey> right, and devmode can't go in the stable channel
[11:22] <popey> we could put it in devmode in the edge channel
[11:22] <omairqazi> hmm
[11:22] <popey> that would be fine
[11:22] <popey> and then work on getting it confined strictly later, that's certainly an option
[11:22] <omairqazi> ok
[11:23] <popey> and would give you a solution to this snap
[11:23] <omairqazi> hmm
[11:23] <coolpolygons> balloons: there?
[11:23] <omairqazi> popey: snappy-debug seccomp says syscall chown. as suggested i install snapcraft preload
[11:24] <omairqazi> but no luck
[11:24] <popey> yeah, i never had luck with snapcraft preload
[11:24] <konrad11901> popey: I'm sorry for bothering you, but I'm still having issues with snapping an electron app. I tried with another project - firebase-admin, but it's quite similar to messenger-demo-viewer - works perfectly fine in devmode, but there are some issues in strict. Snappy-debug again shows some issues with chown (while trying to change app's settings or delete/add connections): https://paste.ubuntu.com/26352633/
[11:25] <popey> ugh
[11:28] <omairqazi> popey for the alias https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/alias-for-backslide/3430
[11:39] <daniellimws[m]> popey, sorry I was the one that suggested to use classic as I saw that in an article regarding asciinema
[11:39] <daniellimws[m]> I'm very curious, if we confine the snap to only one directory, wouldn't it lose the packaged app's intended functionality?
[11:39] <daniellimws[m]> When that happens won't people prefer installing via npm or pip which already works instead
[11:40] <omairqazi> daniellimws[m]: popey told me to use devmode and release to the edge channel
[11:40] <popey> No worries :)
[11:41] <popey> daniellimws[m]: it's not confined to only one directory, the snap has write access to multiple places.
[11:45] <daniellimws[m]> popey: but what about when apparmor denies open/read/write access?
[11:46] <popey> Most snaps can be convinced to write to specific places
[11:46] <popey> they have their $HOME set to /home/$USER/snap/$SNAPNAME/current
[11:46] <popey> which is writable
[11:48] <konrad11901> popey: do you have any idea what to do with this chown error? :/
[11:49] <daniellimws[m]> what about in the case of backslide which wants to write to the current working directory?
[11:50] <popey> it can, if you add the home interface/plug
[11:52] <daniellimws[m]> oh so that will expose the snap to the entire home directory?
[11:53] <omairqazi> well home plug didn't work for backslide
[11:53] <omairqazi> but you can try
[11:54] <omairqazi> but home plug is mandatory if your snap reads and writes data to the home directory
[11:57] <popey> yes, add the home plug to most snaps
[12:07] <omairqazi> popey i released it to edge https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-backslide/3408/14
[12:27] <tsimonq2> coolpolygons: Empty pings solve nothing. ;)
[12:31] <daniellimws[m]> popey, what about /tmp
[12:31] <popey> each snap has access to their own tmp
[12:32] <popey> https://docs.snapcraft.io/snaps/structure
[12:33] <daniellimws[m]> ahh ok thanks
[12:33] <omairqazi> popey: sorry to disturb you. please take a look at my submission https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/6091379543375872/
[12:34] <popey> will do!
[12:35] <omairqazi> thanks
[12:40] <omairqazi> popey: if you dont mind from next time onwards please call me Omair instead of Qazi :)
[12:40] <popey> oh, apologies.
[12:47] <omairqazi> popey: it is ok. did test my snap? it works in devmode. sudo snap install backslide --edge --devmode
[12:47] <omairqazi> s/did/did you
[12:49] <omairqazi> hi guys again. sorry network problem
[12:50] <Accelerator> np
[13:04] <coolpolygons> tsimonq2: wondering if u could check my work here: https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/4613563035418624/
[13:12] <tsimonq2> coolpolygons: Sure, I'll get to it by the end of the day US time
[13:14] <coolpolygons> thank you :D
[13:21] <omairqazi> elopio hi!
[13:35] <konrad11901> Guys, does anyone have some time to test my snap? I have some issues with it, and I want to confirm it's not an issue with my environment.
[13:36] <konrad11901> If so, please follow these instructions: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26353137/. I'd be very thankful for your help!
[13:40] <daniellimws[m]> I'm feeling a bit lazy but sure ;)
[13:41] <daniellimws[m]> looks like a little too much work.. i'll come back later
[13:43] <konrad11901> ok :)
[14:16] <omairqazi> elopio there?
[14:38] <omairqazi> elopio hi
[14:43] <konrad11901> popey: you there?
[14:44] <omairqazi> elopio: please take a look https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/6091379543375872/?sp-page=2
[14:52] <balloons> coolpolygons, ?
[15:06] <JacobKING> Hello evilnick, degville, pmatulis and davidcalle I'm Jacob this is my task Google Code-In
[15:30] <Dominic1234> Hi Elopio kyrofa sergiusens!
[15:31] <elopio> hello Dominic1234
[15:33] <Dan_> elopio
[15:33] <Guest98771> anyone there
[15:34] <elopio> hello Guest98771
[15:35] <konrad11901> elopio: can I ask you something about the electron snaps?
[15:36] <ChinmayKulkarni> Hi
[15:37] <ChinmayKulkarni> Where can I get how to tutorial
[15:37] <konrad11901> nevermind
[15:38] <davidcalle> Hi ChinmayKulkarni it's in the task description :)
[15:38] <davidcalle> https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-guidelines
[15:38] <ChinmayKulkarni> Ya I found
[15:38] <ChinmayKulkarni> Actually I don't have a pc
[15:38] <elopio> konrad11901: sure.
[15:38] <ChinmayKulkarni> So now what should I do
[15:39] <davidcalle> ChinmayKulkarni: ah, then you can't do the task, you should pick another one
[15:40] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio
[15:40] <elopio> hello
[15:40] <ChinmayKulkarni> Ok
[15:41] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio: Yesterday popey tested the orbitdb snap and concluded that the softwares not working he also told you to accept my task.... and i asked you what should i do u said to subit reviews
[15:42] <elopio> yes, I reviewed and found a solution after all :)
[15:42] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> Will that work you tried it?
[15:43] <elopio> I tried it, yes. I hope it will work for you too
[15:43] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> ok then i will try and see now
[15:44] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> and what is g++ in the build packages
[15:44] <elopio> great
[15:44] <elopio> g++ is the c++ compiler.
[15:45] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> what is make?
[15:45] <elopio> make is a program to build other programs.
[15:46] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> can you find soln for my other snap also it is dev-time
[15:46] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26346578/
[15:46] <elopio> maybe, I haven't tried that one yet
[15:47] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> can you help me plz
[15:48] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> i really like that app cause it shows the local time of github users
[15:48] <elopio> sure, I have it in my list of things to do.
[15:49] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> ok no prob
[15:59] <Accelerator> kyrofa: One of the errors i got is that the fix you suggested is too long-(91 > 79 characters)...is there a way to bypass the limit?
[15:59] <kyrofa> Accelerator, no, but line breaks are totally okay
[16:01] <Accelerator> kyrofa: But then won't it be a deformed?
[16:01] <Accelerator> s/a/-
[16:01] <kyrofa> Haha, a little I suppose, but no way around that
[16:02] <Accelerator> Ok totally cool with that :)
[16:06] <konrad11901> elopio: nevermind, I managed to solve my problem, but thanks anyway :)
[16:06] <elopio> happy to have helped :D
[16:07] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio i got an error not working-orbitdb
[16:08] <elopio> DANIELLIVINGSTON: please put your error on paste.ubuntu.com and send us the link. Also add the commands you ran, and the snapcraft.yaml
[16:12] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio:https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26353801/
[16:13] <konrad11901> sergiusens: if you have some spare time, could you check my submission please? :)
[16:13] <elopio> DANIELLIVINGSTON: ah, I think I now what happened. You copied my source: ., but probably you should use source: https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db.git
[16:14] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> ok i will see
[16:37] <omairqazi> wxl: hi! please take a look at my submission: https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/6047433035350016/ Thanks!
[16:44] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio
[16:45] <Accelerator> Kyrofa: Do i need to define all these? https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26353957/
[16:47] <DANIELLIVINGSTON> elopio: i again got an error will running orbitdb after installing
[16:49] <omairqazi> bye guys
[16:49] <omairqazi> meet you tomorrow IST
[16:49]  * omairqazi is going to sleep
[17:02] <kyrofa> Accelerator, yep
[17:02] <daniellimws> popey: hi, regarding my snap uber, is it ready to be forked into snapcrafters repo?
[17:02] <kyrofa> Accelerator, or remove them, if necessary
[17:02] <kyrofa> (as I mentioned in my most recent review)
[17:15] <Accelerator> kyrofa: If i do remove them...then what will i put let's say here-->raise errors.MissingDesktopFileError(?)
[17:25] <Accelerator> kyrofa: nvm...can i make another PR though because it would be quite difficult to edit online 😅😅
[17:48] <konrad11901> Hi all, one question. I see that snapcraft is available on macOS through homebrew. What about the snap support itself? Are snaps supported on macOS, is it planned or it won't probably happen?
[17:54] <Accelerator> konrad11901: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/support-for-macos/1290
[18:01] <konrad11901> Accelerator: ok, thanks!
[18:01] <Accelerator> np
[18:10] <m4sk1n> elopio: what should I do? how can I make travis use lxd or docker?
[18:11] <elopio> m4sk1n: did you try installing the snapcraft snap? That might work on  trusty
[18:11] <m4sk1n> it runs snapcraft with `npm run dist`, so there’s no way other than running the whole build in container
[18:12] <m4sk1n> yes, but command not found
[18:12] <elopio> that's because /snap/bin is not in $PATH
[18:13] <elopio> you can add "export PATH=$PATH:/snap/bin"
[18:13] <m4sk1n> ENOENT
[18:14] <elopio> sorry, what?
[18:15] <m4sk1n> error
[18:15] <m4sk1n> from npm
[18:16] <Nissaar> sergiussens: hi. https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/6583702333161472/. for this task. for the new branch. should i upload a new file ?
[18:16] <elopio> m4sk1n: after exporting th path?
[18:16] <m4sk1n> before
[18:17] <m4sk1n> let me try it now
[18:17]  * m4sk1n uploaded an image: Screenshot_20180109-191647.png (197KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TnxryUgjcqcCTpWfdXgLYJOP>
[18:17] <m4sk1n> :D
[18:42] <Accelerator> kyrofa: Can i make a new PR and a new branch or do you need the old commits?
[18:42] <kyrofa> Accelerator, for the same task? Use the same PR
[18:53] <m4sk1n> 55.9kB/s on travis ci…
[19:20] <Nissaar_> elopio: hi
[19:20] <Nissaar_> https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/5373896733753344/
[19:20] <Nissaar_> i need help for this task
[19:22] <Nissaar_> after cd in the repository which i have cloned. when i do git checkout -b add-snap-support: it says :'fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git'
[19:23] <Accelerator> Nissaar_, If you are having problems then check this out: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-create-a-pull-request-on-github
[19:24] <m4sk1n> Error downloading stage packages for part 'desktop-gtk2': The package 'adwaita-icon-theme' was not found.
[19:25] <Nissaar_> im following this tutorial<: https://gist.github.com/popey/7803cfbda9b337fab792c403e50e4709
[19:30] <Accelerator> Nissaar_, the one i gave you is more simple to follow and understand
[19:32] <m4sk1n> elopio: trusty has no adwaita-icon-theme, so there’s no way to build it XD
[20:10] <Nissaar_> elopio ?
[20:10] <Nissaar_> popey ?
[21:41] <m4sk1n> -_-
[21:41] <m4sk1n> elopio: it fails because of travis ci, they have problems witch connection XD
[21:44] <elopio> m4sk1n: oh well, that was worth a try
[21:46] <elopio> m4sk1n: changing the job to use lxd or docker will be very invasive, I'm not sure they would like it
[21:46] <elopio> but also, worth to suggest.
[21:47] <elopio> m4sk1n: here is how you set up lxd in travis: https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/blob/master/tools/travis/setup_lxd.sh
[21:48] <elopio> here is an example of calling snapcraft from docker: https://github.com/elopio/blockchain-snaps/blob/master/.travis.yml#L27


[16:52] <rajen> #lool
[17:56] <pindonga> hi anyone around? how can I specify snappy to run everything unconfined (so that I can test everything works, before starting to restrict things)
[17:57] <pindonga> I've tried specifying security-template: unconfined, but it doesn't seem to be enough (I get 'bad system call' errors when the program tries to setuid
[17:57] <pindonga> (it's a daemon)


[01:11] <Luza> sup folks new guy to ubuntu studios or linux period . i cant seem to get blender 2.8 to read my radeon 580 rx .. anybody get amd to work properly ?
[01:13] <Luza> on additional drivers they dont show up either
[01:48] <tomreyn> Luza: i'm not into blender really but i think they have their own IRC channel here, try #blender
[01:48] <tomreyn> also you most likely won't need any extra drivers other than amdgpu which comes with ubuntu
[01:51] <Luza> yeah but for some reason blenders not recognizing them
[02:20] <tomreyn> if you're using the blender snap it may be restricted too much, preventing it from detecting / using the hardware.
[02:21] <tomreyn> on the other hand, it could be a bug in an older blender version which ships with ubuntu(studio), so try vice versa and maybe try one downloaded from blender, too.
[02:21] <tomreyn> *blender.org
[02:33] <tomreyn> i just downloaded blender 2.81a and on this ubuntu 18.04 system with Radeon RX 580, in blender -> edit -> preferences -> system -> cycles render devices, i also don't see it listed on any tab. i guess you could probably get opencl working with either the open source (mesa / dri) drivers or with amd's proprietary amdgpu overlay drivers.
[02:34] <tomreyn> the latter aren't supported by the volunterrs here though. i sugeest to seek some suggestions from the blender community since this is probably a more common question.
[06:22] <Kaffeeknecht> gm
[06:23] <Luza> morning
[06:23] <Luza> hey man you willing to share screens ? and help me with my amd drivers ?
[06:24] <Kaffeeknecht> sorry, a bit short this morning...currently fighting with my notebook's filesystem...
[06:25] <Luza> oh ok no big thanks anyways
[07:13] <Eickmeyer> Kaffeeknecht: Just for reference on that, we do not allow support via screen sharing for the security of all involved.
[07:22] <Kaffeeknecht> thx!
[16:56] <Olivier> bonsoir tout le monde !
[16:59] <tomreyn> good evening, Olivier
[17:02] <jukebohi> Bonsoir Olivier
[17:04] <Olivier> je suis nouveau sur ubuntu studio
[17:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> !fr | Olivier


[11:17] <Satoris> Four finger gestures are still broken for me. Are they working for anyone?
[13:48] <Satoris> Unity 2D still works with swipe a couple of times. Then it crashes.
[14:15] <cnd> Satoris, they are still going to be broken until I get some touch accounting fixes in
[14:15] <cnd> Satoris, bregma_, dandrader, tvoss: standups!
[14:15] <dandrader> Proposed fix for "2. UGEvent::Unref()" issue from "[Systems-team] Grail fixes" e-mail sent by cnd. Now I'll start looking into the issue described in "3. Recognizer::AcceptGesture()".
[14:15] <bregma_> did the standups gets moved by an hour, or am I confused?
[14:16] <dandrader> bregma_, yep. timezone shifts cased it
[14:16] <cnd> bregma_, yes, europe just entered DST
[14:16] <tvoss> chromium and bug work, jenkins work
[14:16] <cnd> I'm going to be doing code reviews and cleaning up touch accounting fixes in grail to propose it
[14:16] <Satoris> Tried to work on bugs and stuff but turned out unproductive. In a fit of rage rewrote evemu's build system in CMake. It's a proof of concept that took maybe an hour.
[14:16] <bregma_> that doesn't make sense, my timezone hasn't changed
[14:16] <Satoris> Chromium finalisation too.
[14:17] <Satoris> Which touch bugs are fixed and worked on and which ones are not?
[14:18] <dandrader> Satoris, you mean from that "Grail fixes" e-mail?
[14:18] <Satoris> That, but anywhere really.
[14:18] <cnd> bregma_, this is getting some attention on #ubuntu-devel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/963500
[14:19] <bregma_> yet another duplicate
[14:19] <bregma_> I will tackle that today then
[14:19] <cnd> ok
[14:19] <dandrader> Satoris,  from that e-mail the only item that no one worked on yet is "6. All tests", I think
[14:21] <Satoris> It's not causing any bugs (yet). cnd, what should we focus on next?
[14:21] <cnd> Satoris, that would still be very helpful to have done
[14:22] <cnd> I can get you a diff
[14:22] <Satoris> There are no crashers or usability issues (apart from nothing working at all)?
[14:25] <dandrader> cnd, do you recall the bug that caused that output? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/utouch-grail/+bug/964135
[14:25] <cnd> Satoris, I'm not sure what you want?
[14:26] <cnd> you can test things, find bugs, and try to resolve them
[14:26] <cnd> but it will be hard for another day or two until I can get the touch accounting stuff fixed
[14:26] <cnd> dandrader, that's also due to the touch accounting issues
[14:27] <dandrader> ah, ok
[14:27] <dandrader> maybe you could make it a duplicate or something
[14:28] <Satoris> cnd: should I work on 6 or some other issue tomorrow?
[14:28] <cnd> Satoris, 6 would be helpful if it's not fixed by then
[14:31] <cnd> dandrader, I don't think we have a bug for touch accounting yet, so I may just use it
[14:31] <dandrader> even better
[14:32] <cnd> Satoris, http://paste.ubuntu.com/900536/
[14:32] <cnd> it's a hand edited diff, so it may need some massaging to apply
[14:32] <bregma_> was someone working on porting Unity to GEISv2?
[14:33] <dandrader> bregma_, o/
[14:33] <bregma_> what's the status of that?
[14:33] <dandrader> bregma_, done. but not proposed yet as it doesn't fix any bug
[14:33] <bregma_> well, actually I have a list of at least 6 bugs it would fix
[14:33] <dandrader> in reality it does fix
[14:34] <dandrader> but it's not a proper fix for the bugs
[14:34] <dandrader> a proper fix being fixing GEISv1
[14:34] <bregma_> well, the problem is that GEISv1 is incompatible with the new grail architecture, so the solution is to move to GEISv2 and be done with
[14:35] <cnd> bregma_, ?
[14:35] <cnd> it's really really late to be moving to geis v2
[14:36] <Satoris> Should someone want to play with it: https://code.launchpad.net/~jpakkane/utouch-evemu/cmake
[14:36] <Satoris> Not proposing for merge for obvious reasons.
[14:36] <bregma_> can you describe what problems you were having with the utouch-evemu build as it currently exists?
[14:36] <Satoris> It is implemented in autogarbage.
[14:37] <bregma_> I find your attitude unprofessional in this regard
[14:37] <Satoris> tvoss: please tell how many hours you have lost due to said build system.
[14:37] <bregma_> I asked for a problem desription, not a politicl rant
[14:38] <tvoss> Satoris, bregma_ it is indeed more cumbersome to adjust the auto* build systems for automatic building and testing, at least: that's my experience with it
[14:39] <Satoris> I have made my point several times (more than I should have, probably). Autotools is a poor system, which is fragile, hard to use, unreliable, and causes lost productivity.
[14:39] <bregma_> _is_ there a problem description?
[14:40] <tvoss> bregma_, not in terms of a description that one could put in a bug report
 Tried to work on bugs and stuff but turned out unproductive. In a fit of rage rewrote evemu's build system in CMake
[14:41] <tvoss> bregma_, it's more like papercuts to me that add up to decreased efficiency
[14:41] <bregma_> surely those bugs have descriptions?
[14:41] <Satoris> They are bugs (and design decisions) of autotools, not our projects.
[14:42] <Satoris> Time lost fighting the system rather than working on real issues is the main thing for me.
[14:42] <bregma_> what were you trying to do in utouch-evemu that caused the fits of rage?  Surely something that bad can be described in words.
[14:42] <bregma_> Given that there are zero bugs against that project
[14:42] <Satoris> The fit of rage came elsewhere. I chose evemu, because it was the easiest and thus makes a good proof of concept.
[14:43] <bregma_> ah, I see, purely political then
[14:43] <Satoris> Loss of productivity is political?
[14:44] <bregma_> I have not loss of productivity with that project
[14:44] <bregma_> I builds, it runs, it has zero bugs
[14:44] <bregma_> that's why I was asking
[14:45] <Satoris> There have been issues raised that possibly CMake could not do some things that we need. This was made to show that it can do what is required.
[15:05] <cnd> biab
[16:16] <cnd> dandrader, I'm going to propose the fix to the tests for subscription deactivate before slice unreferencing
[16:16] <cnd> just fyi
[16:16] <dandrader> cnd,
[16:16] <dandrader> ok
[16:17] <cnd> that's the last thing necessary before I can look into proposing the touch accounting fixes
[16:17] <dandrader> cnd, btw, should that practice be documented somewhere in grail.h?
[16:17] <dandrader> (the slice before subscription thing)
[16:17] <cnd> dandrader, maybe...
[16:18] <cnd> I'd actually rather fix it for real
[16:18] <cnd> I think if UGEvent held a shared_ptr reference to the subscription, it would work
[16:18] <cnd> it's a bit of a corner case
[16:18] <cnd> the user normally shouldn't be closing down a subscription while still processing events
[16:24] <dandrader> I find it a bit confusing that a gesture can be active and ended at the same time
[16:28] <dandrader> cnd, could the code in gesture.cpp:202 be simply a call to End()?
[16:31] <cnd> dandrader, End() is a method that does ends a gesture, line 202 is an if conditional
[16:31] <cnd> did you mean something else?
[16:32] <dandrader> I meant calling End() from inside that if(){}
[16:32] <dandrader> cnd, ^
[16:33] <dandrader> instead of replicating the code. One difference is that End() also clears some lists. I don't know if that matters
[16:33] <dandrader> that's why I asked
[16:33] <cnd> dandrader, yeah, we should call End() there
[16:33] <cnd> good catch
[16:36] <dandrader> cool. I'll add this change to a branch along with some other simple refactoring commits
[16:36] <cnd> sounds good
[16:37] <cnd> dandrader, I just proposed the test fixes, btw
[16:38] <dandrader> ok, I'll check them after lunch
[16:41] <cnd> dandrader|lunch, I filed a bug for the fact that UGSlice does not have a reference to UGSubscription
[16:41] <cnd> so it's a documented issue
[18:30]  * cnd wishes grail and gcc had C11 _Generic support
[18:31] <cnd> I just spent 20 minutes tracking down a bug where I was passing a pointer to a c++ bool instead of an int
[18:31] <cnd> which are of different sizes on i386 at least
[18:34] <bregma_> hint:  don't do that
[18:42] <cnd> bregma_, you're always so helpful :)
[18:42] <bregma_> np
[19:37] <cnd> dandrader, bregma_: I just proposed a utouch-grail branch that will make gestures work properly
[19:38] <cnd> it should fix all the grail warnings people see in their .xsession-errors and when running apps on the command line
[19:38] <cnd> I'm going to get some lunch, biab
[19:38] <bregma_> I'm waiting for MR mail to come through
[19:39] <bregma_> whups, there it is....
[21:24] <cnd> dandrader, help me understand why signals and slots is a better architectural solution
[21:24] <cnd> the reason I'm hesitant about it is because it replaces a strong linkage between two objects with a weaker dynamic linkage
[21:25] <cnd> while signals and slots look better aesthetically, to me at least, I worry that it opens us up to less maintainable architectures because it won't be quite as obvious how objects interact with each other
[21:31] <dandrader> it's just about having better or true encapsulation. A Touch is shouldn't know that a Recognizer exists. It's the other way around
[21:31] <dandrader> s/Touch is/Touch
[21:32] <dandrader> it's a big enabler of unit testing, for instance.
[21:33] <dandrader> if you have hard links between objects it gets very difficult to use them individually or to use them in different parts of the system
[21:35] <cnd> hmm... that's a good point
[21:35] <cnd> dandrader, I'm hesitant to make a change to using a new library at this point though
[21:36] <cnd> merely because of how close we are to release
[21:36] <cnd> it adds a huge new variable to everything
[21:36] <cnd> though after 12.04 is released we can look into using signals
[21:36] <cnd> dandrader, what do you think?
[21:36] <dandrader> I think if you have objects calling each other you can easily end up with an entanglement of relationships that makes the system more complex.
[21:36] <dandrader> but sure
[21:37] <dandrader> at this point it might be risky to add this dependence
[21:38] <cnd> I do agree about the tangled relationships
[21:38] <cnd> it does make me cringe having the all_touches_ array and the Recognizer::DeleteTouch method
[21:39] <cnd> dandrader, maybe we don't need Recognizer::DeleteTouch...
[21:39] <cnd> maybe we can just delete it from all_touches_ when the TouchEnd is seen
[21:39] <cnd> we're guaranteed not to receive any more events for that touch
[21:40] <cnd> we're also guaranteed to receive the TouchEnd
[21:40] <cnd> we could put a check at the end of ProcessEvent to reap all ended touches from all_touches_
[21:44] <dandrader> yeah, that sounds good
[21:45] <dandrader> gotta go. I'll continue reading your patch tomorrow morning. see you tomorrow
[22:47] <cnd> bregma_, it dawned on me that the resolution to our aclocal m4 script daily build issue is that we should be checking in a copy of xorg-gtest.m4 into our upstream m4/ directory
[22:48] <cnd> the aclocal system uses serial numbers to keep track of newer macro scripts, so it shouldn't be harmful
[22:48] <cnd> and our distributed tarball includes the scripts anyways, so it's not as though the real upstream distribution will be any different
[22:49] <cnd> merely the upstream source code repository will contain one more file