[03:25] <sorat> hi
[05:31] <flocculant> b1 release tomorrow (Friday)
[05:39] <flocculant> bluesabre: early indications are an old name returning and a couple of new ones on the tracker
[05:40] <flocculant> Unit193: you any idea why lightdm-gtk=-greeter would be complaining about upstart? and if it'd slow desktop arrival at all?
[05:42] <Unit193> There was something recently in one of the packages about upgrades, likely in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/* stuff.
[05:45] <flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/trjGhTGmbP/
[10:46] <bluesabre> flocculant: looks like that's some fallback code to launch indicators in older releases of ubuntu. Shouldn't cause the slowdown, and as you can see by the timestamps, it keeps going
[10:48] <bluesabre> The rest of that is GTK's ongoing debug output to developers spamming users
[10:49] <bluesabre> flocculant: don't suppose you know if the other *buntus are having the first login slowness?
[10:50] <bluesabre> it takes forever to get to ubiquity, so I'm thinking it might be not just us
[10:51] <bluesabre> also glad that the b1 release is tomorrow... want to document what's new so blogs don't just write us off
[10:52] <bluesabre> flocculant: and yeah, also of note that 32bit gets no attention at all
[10:53] <bluesabre> I also wonder if iso.qa's display is part of the problem. "5/5 completed", "oh good, they got their testers"
[10:53] <knome> maybe
[10:54] <knome> (hello)
[10:54] <bluesabre> hiya knome
[10:54] <knome> stomach bug almost beaten
[10:55] <bluesabre> almost yay
[10:56] <slickymasterWork> that's good news knome
[10:56] <slickymasterWork> and morning both
[10:56] <knome> hello slickymasterWork
[10:58] <bluesabre> hey there slickymasterWork
[12:10] <bluesabre> knome, flocculant, thoughts on having an interesting and informative release note for bionic? Currently drafting up a general format here https://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1804-release
[12:11] <bluesabre> It would 1) make our release more interesting for users, and 2) give our testers an idea of where to look for issues
[12:12] <bluesabre> and if so, can I include it on the b1 note if I finish writing it up tonight? :)
[12:16] <knome> bluesabre, commented on the pad
[12:17] <knome> do we have anything else to mention about xfce getting forward?
[12:18] <slickymasterWork> I'd remove the 'and' in (and formerly GNOME 2)
[12:19] <knome> slickymasterWork, jfdi :P
[12:19] <bluesabre> knome: we will, not written it yet, https://imgur.com/a/iLjym
[12:19] <slickymasterWork> nasty knome :P
[12:19] <knome> yes...
[12:21] <bluesabre> for reference, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes
[12:27] <bluesabre> and a summary, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bMeZ8YbhFYJvkVpu2V_LGCWRT4oc1bBReGVJ57HbQqs/edit?usp=sharing
[12:28] <knome> that's a lot of links
[12:28] <knome> well done
[12:28] <bluesabre> some mornings are more productive than others :)
[12:43] <knome> bluesabre, you have my permission to do things you want with the b1 release notes
[17:46] <flocculant> bluesabre: yep - release note works for me - finish writing it up, ping bashfulrobot in -release with the location of it so that IT is the B1 release note - means I don't have to try to get that done tonight
[17:46] <flocculant> ack re fallback code
[17:47] <flocculant> not sure if other *buntus have the problem - but I can certainly find out - I'll start with Ubuntu
[17:47] <flocculant> re iso.qa - yea I've wondered that in the past ... I'll drop a note to m/l's re it
[17:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: re pad - things new that are now gtk3? maybe highlight that - for the last while we've been saying Xfce have been porting things to gtk3 - so we've not got much different
[17:54] <flocculant> bluesabre: re pinging bashfulrobot, when you know what rn link will be - put it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/Beta1
[18:10] <knome> slickymasterWork, how does your schedule look tomorrow post-dinner?
[18:16] <slickymasterWork> wide open, so we can do some work
[18:17] <knome> good
[18:19] <flocculant> bluesabre: sent something about tracker with a pic
[19:11] <flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1705243 is that actually expected behaviour?
[19:59] <flocculant> bluesabre: more re rn you want to do - you can add https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes if you want - it'll get updated shortlyish
[20:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: figured out a good way of fixing the default look of the greeter window also with adwaita: http://i.imgur.com/X3ogKVD.png
[21:15] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - I grabbed looby lou, budgie and mate. None are slow to desktop. I can only confirm it with xubuntu
[21:15] <flocculant> unfortunately ...
[21:20] <ochosi> meh, that sucks
[21:21] <ochosi> so something in our session is dragging us down..?
[21:21] <ochosi> is that a recent issue?
[21:22] <flocculant> ochosi: nope - I've been talking about it for months
[21:23] <knome> pleia2, there was an interesting (in a way) mail about xubuntu derivatives on -contacts, we need to reply to that soon
[21:24] <knome> (the reply is mostly uninteresting)
[21:24] <flocculant> evening knq
[21:24] <flocculant> fail
[21:25] <flocculant> knome :p
[21:25] <ochosi> flocculant: sry, must've slipped by me
[21:25] <flocculant> np
[21:26] <ochosi> isn't there a systemd profiling thingy which tells you what took how long at startup?
[21:26] <ochosi> (that may include the session lag)
[21:26] <flocculant> didn't last time I checked
[21:26] <flocculant> ochosi: it doesn't however appear to be a constant issue - just first time
[21:27] <ochosi> hm
[21:27] <flocculant> if I was waiting for 90s everytime I booted my machine - I'd have installed something else in November :D
[21:28] <ochosi> lol
[21:28] <flocculant> I'll re-re-re-reinstall vanilla xub and check systemd-analyze again
[21:29] <flocculant> *nowish*
[21:30] <ochosi> awesome
[21:30] <ochosi> thanks a bunch
[21:31] <flocculant> np ofc :)
[21:31] <flocculant> longest bit of doing this - is waiting for the usb to be done ;)
[21:31] <ochosi> hehe
[21:31] <ochosi> any more bugs on our side you know of that need ironing out?
[21:32] <flocculant> not that jump out at me
[21:33] <flocculant> I find it harder and harder to know - more stuff from ppa's and git make it awkward to know what others see :)
[21:33] <ochosi> welcome to my world ;)
[21:33] <flocculant> ha ha
[21:33]  * ochosi whispers: you're drifting towards arch...
[21:34] <flocculant> nah - if I get that far I'll just move back to a vanilla install and start drifting again :D
[21:35] <flocculant> bbs - booting to live again
[21:45] <ochosi> flocculant: i presume this one can be closed as fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1652933
[21:45] <ochosi> (still linked to our bugs blueprint)
[21:46] <ochosi> (at least this works fine for me)
[21:48] <ochosi> knome: isn't this done and inprogress already? https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-b-community
[21:48] <ochosi> or in fact done and done
[21:56] <flocculant> ochosi: yea you can close that
[21:56] <flocculant> clearing the bug bp is on my radar when I do the release note
[21:56] <ochosi> alrighty
[21:56] <ochosi> just decided to go through the bps now a bit
[21:58] <flocculant> ochosi: systemd-blame things - and stopwatch timings for a vanilla install and my usual install https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YPNCQ2Nd2B/
[21:58] <flocculant> and ack that :)
[21:59] <flocculant> lost the will to live timing the live with a stopwatch last time - wasn't in the frame of mind to try again :p
[22:02] <flocculant> Unit193: from post #7 down from kerry_s > re core https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2386532&p=13746559&viewfull=1#post13746559
[22:02] <ochosi> the times don't really add up for me
[22:02] <flocculant> systemd ones?
[22:02] <ochosi> with vanilla you write 30 secs, but systemd tells us about roughly 9
[22:03] <flocculant> yup
[22:03] <ochosi> ok, so then the conclusion is that systemd analyze doesn't help in this case
[22:03] <flocculant> yea
[22:04] <flocculant> just brb - check the second login times to the vanilla install
[22:06] <flocculant> ochosi: ok so 2nd login to that install and I see times more or less the same as this install - eg what I'd expect
[22:06] <Unit193> Oh strange, and I see slick mentioned the try vs install, that's usually where the problem stands.
[22:06] <flocculant> so something goes on for the 1st ever login - that takes an age
[22:07] <flocculant> Unit193:ack
[22:08] <flocculant> ochosi: if I was me me - not me Xubuntu QA expecting this - I'd boot the usb find it taking ages, assume somethign wrong with the stick, do it all again - see the same thing - perhaps wait the 2nd time - see it taking ages to do anything and likely go elsewhere
[22:13] <flocculant> ochosi: re bugs you're seeing comment earlier - not often seeing it now, but some are > the double net indicator thing
[22:13] <ochosi> ah right
[22:13] <flocculant> I'm assuming we're still not sure what etc
[22:13] <ochosi> i remember, you mentioned that a few times
[22:13] <flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1685502/comments/4
[22:13] <ochosi> seems to be a race condition that is probably not fully under our control
[22:13] <flocculant> yea
[22:13] <ochosi> hopefully sn-plugin will make a difference there
[22:14] <ochosi> or are you using that already?
[22:14] <flocculant> it's installed but not in panel
[22:14] <flocculant> but I've not seen it for a while iirc
[22:15] <flocculant> when I *did* restarting panel/networky things made no difference
[22:15] <flocculant> in 17.10 it stopped it
[22:15] <flocculant> anyway - kind of cosmetic imo really
[22:16] <ochosi> yeah, but not pretty
[22:16] <ochosi> because very prominent
[22:17] <flocculant> aah yes - I think I have ind-plugin to see tbird on panel
[22:17] <flocculant> aaah
[22:18] <flocculant> with sn-plugin and notifications - 2 net icons
[22:21] <flocculant> bluesabre: have day off tomorrow - out for a few hours midday ish - should be back in time to get the techy note up together
[22:22] <ochosi> you have to hide "application indicators" in the indicator plugin
[22:23] <ochosi> then they shouldn't be visible there
[22:23] <ochosi> so only once
[22:23] <flocculant> in sn-plugin?
[22:24] <flocculant> I don't have extra net in ind-plugin even though it's not hidden
[22:25] <flocculant> in sn-plugin it's showing net manager applet
[22:25] <flocculant> that's just bizarre - only 1 net icon now
[22:26] <flocculant> giving up for Thursday - night all :)
[22:29] <slickymaster> nighty night flocculant
[22:36] <ochosi> same here, night all
[22:55] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
[23:04] <bluesabre> evening all
[23:20] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.


[20:18] <LeMike> hello there. I want to restructure our whole infrastructure and read about Terraform, Ansible etc. But I am totally lost. Which OSS helper would be good to describe server and working stations? (with infrastructure and software)
[22:24] <RoyK> LeMike: I use ansible - dunno about what terraform can do what are you trying to achive?


[01:07] <Bashing-om> guiverc: PM to Wildman IRT issue791 on FB. Not heard back yet.
[01:08] <guiverc> ack... & thanks
[01:39] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Canonical solutions reduce SmartNIC time-to-market and drive efficiency in enterprise data centres @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-on-smartnics-drive-data-centre-effieciency
[01:40] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: How we improved testing Ubuntu on WSL – and how you can too! @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/improved-testing-ubuntu-wsl
[01:40] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Jonathan Carter: CLUG Talk: Running Debian on a 100Gbps router @ https://jonathancarter.org/2023/06/14/clug-talk-running-debian-on-a-100gbps-router/
[01:40] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu 22.10 (Kinetic Kudu) reaches End of Life on July 20 2023 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/06/14/ubuntu-22-10-kinetic-kudu-reaches-end-of-life-on-july-20-2023/
[03:21] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu 22.10 (Kinetic Kudu) reaches End of Life on July 20 2023 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/06/14/ubuntu-22-10-kinetic-kudu-reaches-end-of-life-on-july-20-2023/ (by guiverc)
[03:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: ONLYOFFICE 7.4 Adds Draw Tools and Plugin Support for ChatGPT @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/06/onlyoffice-desktop-editors-adds-chatgpt (by Joey Sneddon)
[19:18] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Ubuntu OnAir Live Stream @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyRcIZskKNE (by Ubuntu OnAir)


[07:02] <dholbach> hiya guys
[07:02] <dholbach> is there anybody who could get http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/10/01/ubuntu-karmic-free-culture-showcase-winners-announced/ on the fridge?


[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #183416 in xorg (main) "screen is enlarged very much when I enable my graphics card(NVDIA card)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183416
[05:46] <ubotu> New bug: #40659 in dmidecode (main) "[ia64] Can't get past "Configuring xserver-xorg"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40659
[06:45] <Q-FUNK> re
[06:55] <bryce> hey
[07:00] <Q-FUNK> no wonder batman's patch would not apply:  it needs to apply after everyone else's patch is there :)
[07:08] <bryce> heh
[07:16] <Q-FUNK> I'm building myself a test package
[07:17] <Q-FUNK> I'll try it with both -amd and the -siliconmotion on my laptop
[07:18] <bryce> amazing how much time this friggin equipment takes to make it work
[07:18] <bryce> can't believe I've put an entire week into ume, and I feel barely further along than a week ago
[07:20] <Q-FUNK> indeed
[07:20] <Q-FUNK> it almost feels like rocket science
[07:38] <tjaalton> bryce: apparently there is a libdrm release coming up in the next few weeks
[07:39] <tjaalton> bryce: which means that the TTM API is finished..
[07:40] <tjaalton> RAOF has snapshot packages for libdrm, so I'll try to build the intel stuff against it
[07:41] <bryce> tjaalton: amazing!
[07:41] <bryce> kewl
[07:42] <tjaalton> the diff against 2.3.0 is over 6MB :)
[07:42] <tjaalton> but that includes the kernel drivers too, same for bsd
[07:42] <bryce> tjaalton: I made some good progress on ume today.  Preliminary results show that the lockup is solved.  I'm hoping by the time i get up tomorrow we'll be close to done with it
[07:43] <tjaalton> bryce: that was with poulsbo?
[07:43] <bryce> yeah I bet.  The libdrm2 patch I was manhandling for ume was like 16,000 lines
[07:43] <bryce> yup
[07:43] <tjaalton> hehe
[07:44] <tjaalton> so I tried RAOF's nouveau packages yesterday, and it worked quite well
[07:44] <bryce> nice
[07:44] <bryce> 3d stuff?
[07:44] <tjaalton> obviously no 3D, and no VT
[07:44] <tjaalton> :)
[07:44] <bryce> oh
[07:44] <tjaalton> it's flaky
[07:44] <tjaalton> but the software rendering wasn't too bad
[07:44] <bryce> ok, so worked quite well for certain definitions of quite well ;-) ;-)
[07:45] <tjaalton> yeah
[07:45] <tjaalton> the VT's not working is a known issue
[07:45] <tjaalton> no DRI since there was no driver for it
[07:46] <tjaalton> but according to the wiki it's known to be broken for most
[07:46] <tjaalton> jcristau: RAOF also promised to co-maintain nouveau on git.d.o :)
[07:47] <tjaalton> the package is derived from -nv, so it's close to the XSF standards
[07:47] <bryce> I hate it when VT switching is broken.  makes debugging a pain
[07:47] <tjaalton> yep
[07:47] <bryce> ah really...  is it a superset of -nv yet?
[07:48] <tjaalton> no, obfuscated parts are mostly rewritten, so it's a fork but has more functionality now
[07:49] <tjaalton> so I'm not proposing to replace -nv with it, not for hardy anyway :)
[07:49] <bryce> well, still good to heaer about the progress
[07:49] <tjaalton> although it seems that there are serious issues with -nv where on some models you need the binary driver to "prime" the card"
[07:50] <tjaalton> and nvidia is not going to fix that
[07:50] <bryce> wow
[07:50] <bryce> I didn't know about that
[07:51] <bryce> wow that sucks
[07:51] <tjaalton> I'm not sure how common that is
[07:51] <bryce> maybe it's updating bios or something?
[07:51] <tjaalton> possibly
[07:52] <tjaalton> i'll dig up the bug on b.fd.o
[08:04] <tjaalton> hmh, can't find it
[08:04] <bryce> ah well
[08:05] <bryce> might be good to note on our wiki somewhere
[08:05] <tjaalton> but there was one where aaronp said that "there's nothing we can do about it right now" or similar
[08:05] <bryce> oh btw, the bug I mentioned in that tagging greasemonkey script is fixed now
[08:06] <tjaalton> oh, cool
[08:06] <bryce> brian also added some tooltips to it (haven't checked that out yet)
[08:09] <tjaalton> so are the ume guys switching to hardy now?
[08:09] <tjaalton> and would that be an excuse for putting the new drm stuff in the kernel?-)
[08:10] <bryce> they're shooting for hardy yes, but gutsy is a backup in case we can't get things like X to work on it
[08:10] <bryce> unfortunately time is very short to prove it on hardy, which is why everyone's scrambling
[08:11] <tjaalton> yep
[08:11] <tjaalton> we'd get TTM with the drm, although that was declined at UDS
[08:11] <bryce> it looks like they've accepted that they're going to be running non-stock ubuntu, with loads of PPA bobbins stuck ontop, so they're working to the assumption that they'll be carrying drm bits and pieces
[08:12] <bryce> I'm sure they would love hearing new drm included in main ubuntu, but don't think they're expecting it
[08:12] <bryce> it would be >awesome< to have TTM
[08:13] <tjaalton> I'm not exactly sure what would break with it, since it's not like a requirement to use it
[08:13] <bryce> yeah
[08:13] <tjaalton> but intel surely is going for it
[08:13] <bryce> mvo would be happy
[08:13] <tjaalton> hehe
[08:14] <tjaalton> so, I'll break my laptop now
[08:14] <bryce> well, if nothing else, it'd be nice to stick it in a ppa for people
[08:15] <tjaalton> yeah
[08:15] <bryce> I'm sure dell would snag it for their systems
[08:16] <bryce> (assuming it doesn't eat kittens and make babies cry or something)
[08:17] <mvo> bryce: looks like I missed the earlier bits of the conversation :) ? new intel drivers?
[08:18] <tjaalton> mvo: libdrm release due "in a few weeks"
[08:18] <bryce> mvo, with TTM
[08:18] <tjaalton> which would include the new memory manager (TTM)
[08:18] <mvo> oh, with ttm ?
[08:18] <mvo> nice
[08:18] <tjaalton> so I'll try to package the intel branch that uses it
[08:19] <tjaalton> currently the performance with 965 is actually worse than with the old driver, but that's hopefully fixed soon
[08:19]  * mvo nods
[08:19] <mvo> will this branch do redirected direct rendering?
[08:20] <tjaalton> I mean with TTM, worse than the current driver with EXA (amazed that it's actually possible..)
[08:20] <tjaalton> mvo: I think that's a separate issue
[08:20] <tjaalton> although it would require TTM yes
[08:22] <mvo> ok
[08:23] <mvo> thanks
[08:38] <bryce> tjaalton: I got another meeting with Intel about -intel bugs tomorrow, but I've been so busy with ume stuff I haven't put much thought into what to talk about.  Are there any issues you think would be worth bringing up with them?
[08:39] <bryce> oh speaking of which, Rolla says "We expect it to be better on 965 in about 2 weeks.  If Jesse releases 2.2.1 before that, then 2.3 should include the major improvements."
[08:39] <bryce> "2.3 will release around march. 2.2.1 should be released near this month's end."
[08:39] <tjaalton> hmm
[08:39] <tjaalton> is March too late?
[08:40] <tjaalton> hmm
[08:40] <bryce> hmm, we were putting in new -ati's up until the last moment before release
[08:40] <tjaalton> yeah.. but it was gutsy :)
[08:40] <bryce> true
[08:40] <bryce> ok I'll bring that up.
[08:41] <bryce> what else?
[08:43] <tjaalton> so 2.3 will use TTM, and we should be able to keep the hardy version more uptodate even when it's released
[08:43] <tjaalton> I just hope they'll be around when the bugs keep rolling in :)
[08:43] <bryce> no kidding
[08:44] <tjaalton> so _if_ we are able to use TTM for intel, we _could_ ship with 2.3
[08:44] <bryce> are you certain 2.3 will require TTM?  I can ask to get clarification on that
[08:44] <tjaalton> but otherwise it's 2.2.1 and back to XAA
[08:45] <tjaalton> oh, no I'm not sure, but if it's not available then we still have the annoying bugs
[08:45]  * bryce nods
[08:45] <bryce> I'll ask for clarification on it
[08:48] <bryce> TTM is wholey within libdrm?  No xserver components needed?
[08:48] <tjaalton> I'll probably take a C course this semester, which should improve my debugging skills :)
[08:48] <bryce> wholly
[08:48] <bryce> cool
[08:48] <tjaalton> AIUI yes
[08:49] <tjaalton> the redirected direct rendering touches xserver
[08:49] <tjaalton> but that's separate
[08:50] <bryce> upstream would be very sad if we went back to XAA
[08:50] <bryce> "the gfx team says:
[08:50] <bryce> EXA should only be slower than XAA on 965 mostly.  Also, we're working
[08:50] <bryce> fully on EXA and we're we are doing nothing else with XAA so it doesn't
[08:50] <bryce> support other features we've added - thus reverting to XAA would leave
[08:50] <bryce> you unsupported.
[08:50] <bryce> "
[08:51] <tjaalton> yeah :/
[08:51] <tjaalton> carrot-and-stick
[08:52] <bryce> I sort of don't like how they flip switch over to new features and (relatively) immediately drop support for the old version
[08:52] <bryce> reminds me of the -i810/-intel switch
[08:58] <tjaalton> true
[08:58] <tjaalton> drm built with a couple of nouveau related warnings, nothing else
[09:09] <bryce> tjaalton: are you experiencing bug 175774?  I also started noticing it recently.
[09:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175774 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[hardy] Enabling "Normal" effects produces badly drawn window shadows." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175774
[09:09] <bryce> I assumed it was compiz' fault but see the bug has ended up with us
[09:09] <bryce> ah nevermind, I see you've already commented on it
[09:11] <tjaalton> yes, it's visible with EXA
[09:39] <ubotu> New bug: #182489 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "Atheros wireless (AR5006EG) not working on ASUS Eee PC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182489
[09:42] <Ng> the gfx team are wrong, EXA is slower on 855 too ;)
[09:43] <tjaalton> heh
[09:43]  * Ng been playing with pm-utils quirks and I can kind of get X back after a resume, but scrolling is still very broken when I do, so it's clearly not working properly somewhere. I'm trying to find out what the correct suspend quirks are for this hardware and I was wondering if I could reasonably try the intel driver from gutsy-proposed with the hardy Xorg
[09:43] <tjaalton> sure, the current version is, but the TTM version is 40% slower on 965 than a non-TTM version of the driver
[09:43] <Ng> ouch
[09:44] <tjaalton> rest should apparently be fine
[09:44] <tjaalton> ..with TTM
[09:44] <mvo> Ng: contracts for terminator being in the repository!
[09:44] <Ng> I'm also considering pestering Peter Clifton about it, since he was so awesome in tracking down the bug that stopped me suspending with the release gutsy -intel driver
[09:44] <Ng> mvo: ta :D
[09:44] <mvo> Ng: meh, make that congrats :)
[09:44]  * mvo can't type
[09:46] <Ng> I also need to find more brave x40 users :)
[09:48] <mvo> Ng: dholbach comes to my mind
[09:49] <Ng> mvo: ooh, interesting point :)
[10:12] <bryce> night
[10:14] <Ng> cya bryce :)
[10:16] <tjaalton> night bryce, hopefully I'll have a working TTM setup by the time you wake up :)
[10:31] <mvo> night bryce
[10:32] <mvo> tjaalton: do you happen to know aobut the latest development with the redirected direct rendering? is it merged into some branch already?
[10:34] <tjaalton> mvo: I know that cworth is working on it, but at least his personal trees haven't been updated in a while, so could be that they are now in a separate branch (of xserver etc)
[10:35] <tjaalton> once I get this TTM crap working I'll have a closer look
[10:35] <mvo> ok, thanks
[11:34] <tjaalton> hmm strange.. emacs runs on a local display but not over ssh, fails with xcb_xlib_lock assertion
[11:35] <tjaalton> and now it works
[11:35] <tjaalton> puzzling
[12:12] <ubotu> New bug: #4596 in xorg (main) "Xorg 6.8.2-77 has multiple issues/bugs" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4596
[12:18] <sirex`> How can I submit new keyboard layout to Ubuntu?
[12:38] <tjaalton> sirex`: please submit them upstream
[12:39] <tjaalton> file a bug against xkeyboard-config on bugzilla.freedesktop.org
[12:39] <sirex`> Ok, thans tjaalton.
[12:43] <tjaalton> sirex`: then if it is approved and included in upstream we can add it to our package
[12:43] <sirex`> tjaalton: can I sumbit a bug to bugs.launchpad.net?
[12:44] <sirex`> I mean bug about new keyboard layout..
[12:44] <tjaalton> yes, and then link to the upstream bug
[12:44] <tjaalton> so we know when it's applied upstream
[13:11] <sirex`> I filed bug: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14096
[13:11] <ubotu> Freedesktop bug 14096 in General "New Lithuanian keyboard layout LEKP" [Normal,New]
[13:16] <tjaalton> ok, now file the same on lp.net, and link to the b.fd.o bug
[13:21] <ubotu> New bug: #183511 in xkeyboard-config (main) "New keyboard layout – LEKP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183511
[13:24] <tjaalton> sirex`: ok, I can link the upstream bug to that
[13:25] <tjaalton> done
[14:21] <Ng> ooooh
[14:21] <Ng> I just got a successful suspend/resume cycle
[14:21]  * Ng tries again
[14:22] <tjaalton> don't spoil it :)
[14:22] <Ng> win!
[14:22] <Ng> that's so weird, but somehow the new kernel seems to have fixed that
[14:22] <Ng> I noticed pitti said his suspend worked with it
[14:22] <Ng> now I need to hack the hal fdi's to set the quirks for this laptop
[14:22] <Ng> and maybe try and whittle the list of required quirks down a bit
[14:26] <Ng> but at least I can close out my bug
[18:16] <seb128> see you later
[18:49] <Q-FUNK> apparently, bartman's combined patch (port blacklist, pci listing, ubuntu changelog) on xserver-corg-core 1.3 (gutsy) has been verified to not introduce regressions when upgrading X under -intel.
[18:49] <Q-FUNK> I'm testing now with nv and siliconmotion
[18:52] <Q-FUNK> (and needless to say, with -amd too)
[22:52] <Q-FUNK> bryce: maybe it's just me, but these tow patches make this nv driver feel snappier.
[22:52] <bryce> :-)
[23:09] <tjaalton> mesa head building.. I guess it'll take a while
[23:11] <Q-FUNK> mesa /bin/jarjarbinks ?
[23:13] <tjaalton> not quite as annoying to watch ;)
[23:13] <Q-FUNK> ;)
[23:15] <tjaalton> duh, failed
[23:16] <tjaalton> at i915tex, the next one would've been i965
[23:16] <tjaalton> the one _I_ need
[23:18] <tjaalton> something for tomorrow then..
[23:18] <tjaalton> ->
[23:22] <bryce> heya tormod
[23:22] <tormod> hi bryce!
[23:23] <tormod> testing out the new Render support on radeon. Any idea I what I can test for? compiz?
[23:23] <bryce> tjaalton: I finally managed to get a good backtrace of the poulsbo ume crash - it's a ioctl call to the kernel.  So, something appears to be broken in the kernel.
[23:26]  * tormod is starting to hate {trackerd,updatedb,scrollkeeper-update}
[23:26] <bryce> I may need to learn how to shut that off
[23:28] <tormod> the killer is when I do a package update that calls scrollkeeper-in-hell-update and at the same time the cron job kicks in, and they starve each other :(
[23:28] <Q-FUNK> how was it that I enable my PPA again?
[23:29] <tormod> funny enough, it happens often on a slow machine, if you have the habit of updating just after booting.
[23:29] <Q-FUNK> I have test packages of the patched server for gutsy and of the latest amd, also backported for gutsy.
[23:29] <tormod> Q-FUNK: isn't that just a click on launchpad?
[23:32] <Q-FUNK> seems enabled, but no idea how to upload to it
[23:32] <tormod> Q-FUNK: dput
[23:32] <tormod> where is the blacklist for compiz located?
[23:32] <Q-FUNK> yes, but where to?
[23:34] <Q-FUNK> ah. found
[23:40]  * tormod thought he knew better than the blacklist...


 Into the Streets!
[11:08] <slashtom> Unity through Faith
[11:20] <ebel> czajkowski: get yourself a telly?
[11:21] <czajkowski> yup
[11:21] <czajkowski> it stopped about 10 mins from the apartment
[11:22] <czajkowski> shops and local business closed up around 7 last night
[11:22] <czajkowski> so getting food last night was interesting
[11:31] <ebel> hehe
[11:32] <czajkowski> jon got nandos and I got other foods in the house
[11:32] <czajkowski> but tesco closed damn early as did iceland
[11:32] <czajkowski> take aways weren't really working
[11:33] <ebel> Time to stock up on food.
[11:34] <czajkowski> yup
[11:34] <czajkowski> have job interview thursday
[11:34] <czajkowski> pending no riots!
[11:39] <ebel> Good luck!
[11:40] <czajkowski> ty
[15:49] <airurando> crikey who knows Kenneth O' Brien? He is one of the Linux Foundation Linux training scholarship winners!
[15:49] <airurando> only five picked out of 200 applicants
[15:50] <airurando> http://www.linux.com/news/galleries/linux-foundation-scholarship-winners-the-future-of-linux/kenneth-obrien-ireland
[15:50] <airurando> well done him!!
[15:58] <tdr112> he did the http://www.opensourceireland.org site , he talked at one of the ossbarcamp
[15:58] <czajkowski> yup
[15:58] <czajkowski> he did indeed
[15:59] <airurando> wasn't it chris duffin who talked about osi?
[16:00] <tdr112> him too
[16:00] <tdr112> there was a few of them mostly from ucd i thing
[16:00] <tdr112> think
[16:00] <airurando> I know the name ken o'brien. I'm just trying to place him.
[16:00] <airurando> fair play to him anyway.
[16:01] <tdr112> well done to him
[19:37] <ricky108> hi
[19:37] <ricky108> can someone help me
[19:37] <ricky108> which irc server is the best place to chat with people in Ireland
[19:38] <moylan> most of the chatrooms on irc that i use are on irc.freenode.net
[19:39] <ricky108> ok
[19:39] <ricky108> I live in Limerick
[19:39] <ricky108> how to chat with people from there
[19:41] <czajkowski> ricky108: hiya
[19:41] <ricky108> hi
[19:41] <ricky108> whats up?
[19:42] <czajkowski> not much
[19:42] <czajkowski> ricky108: where are you in limerick
[19:42] <ricky108> in dorradoyle
[19:42] <ricky108> you?
[19:42] <ricky108> sorry first time chatting here
[19:43] <ricky108> this is the best place to chat with limerick people?
[19:43] <czajkowski> ricky108: sometimes
[19:43] <czajkowski> we;re kinda spread all over
[19:43] <czajkowski> come september more people from limerick are around
[19:43] <czajkowski> with the colleges back
[19:43] <ricky108> usually which one is the best for irelad
[19:43] <ricky108> i see so you are studying in University of Limerick
[19:44] <czajkowski> no I di a long time ago
[19:44] <czajkowski> ubuntu-ie is for ireland
[19:44] <ricky108> ok
[19:44] <ricky108> then
[19:44] <czajkowski> ricky108: we've got details of our events on ubuntu-ie.org
[19:45] <ricky108> oh ok
[19:45] <czajkowski> so there will hopefully be an event next september in lmerick
[19:45] <ricky108> what kind of events you organise
[19:46] <czajkowski> ricky108: so in september we're going to have global jam
[19:46] <czajkowski> where we work on bugs and areas
[19:46] <ricky108> bugs??
[19:46] <ricky108> bacteria??
[19:47] <czajkowski> ubuntu bugs
[19:47] <czajkowski> things that are broken
[19:47] <ricky108> what is ubunt?
[19:47] <ricky108> ubuntu?
[19:47] <czajkowski> ok why are you here???
[19:48] <ricky108> i just wanted to chat
[19:48] <ricky108> and i googled it
[19:48] <ricky108> and i came here
[19:48] <ricky108> simple
[19:48] <ricky108> sorry for being stupid
[19:51] <czajkowski> ubuntu is an operating system
[19:51] <moylan> he's gone
[19:51] <czajkowski> fecking trolls
[19:52] <moylan> not a troll methinks.  just a kid
[20:00] <czajkowski> moylan: to see bugs you can work on
[20:00] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs
[20:00] <czajkowski> you can look at things and areas
[20:04] <moylan> that's a lot of bugs.  now to see if i can make any of them happen locally...
[20:35] <daxroc> czajkowski: stalker eh ;)
[20:36] <czajkowski> ya long story
[20:36] <czajkowski> moylan: also folks in #ubuntu-bugs help
[20:36] <daxroc> for real , thought you were joking
[20:38] <czajkowski> I wish
[20:46] <daxroc> was stalking moylan too and #ubuntu-bugs wow ... Damn wish I had time to stalk someone
[20:47] <daxroc> How's the job hunting going ?
[20:47] <czajkowski> slow
[20:47] <czajkowski> but better thna at home for me
[20:47] <czajkowski> :/
[20:48] <daxroc> Know it's slow here. glad I have a job but need more money too
[20:49] <daxroc> I'm working twice as hard for < half what I should be getting.
[20:50] <daxroc> ahwell great expierience here tho so not a total loss
[20:52] <daxroc> Best of luck with the hunting. Have a good one
[20:52] <czajkowski> thanks
[20:54] <daxroc> may get some garlic for that stalker just incase eh !
[20:56] <czajkowski> http://laughingsquid.com/beard-measuring-t-shirt/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+laughingsquid+%28Laughing+Squid%29
[20:59] <infoturtle> that picture makes me want that t-shirt and an epic beard
[21:00] <czajkowski> infoturtle: did you see the link I posted re bugs
[21:00] <czajkowski> or you can join the bug squad in ubuntu-bugs
[21:00] <infoturtle> I'm in the room but must have come in after your link
[21:00] <infoturtle> #ubuntu-bugs I mean
[21:02] <czajkowski> infoturtle: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs
[21:03] <infoturtle> cheers, I was just flicking through those trying to find something easy to start on. Also doing some C but just started on it
[21:04] <daxroc> wow best wifi ap name ever .. c:\virus.exe
[21:10] <daxroc> FreeBSD rocks damn it
[21:40] <infoturtle> Would anyone have any intrest in working on a bug in a group, for those who haven't done it before, before the UGJ?
[21:41] <czajkowski> infoturtle: could do
[21:41] <czajkowski> just not today
[21:41] <czajkowski> infoturtle: if you ask or join the bug squad they'll help you
[21:42] <czajkowski> infoturtle: or maybe fagan would hel
[21:42] <czajkowski> help
[21:44] <infoturtle> I'd ask there but I have the fear of looking stupid. Any day would be great at all (unless I'm moving) and I'd be thankful for it.
[21:45] <infoturtle> If anyone would be willing to help and join to see how it's done it would be great
[21:45] <infoturtle> I just have no idea how to tackle the code
[21:46] <czajkowski> infoturtle: it;s busier during the day
[21:46] <czajkowski> moylan: would you be up for it also
[21:48] <infoturtle> That's great czajkowski, thanks, I'll keep an eye on the room in the mean time and when you/anyone can string some time together I'll be here :D


[12:38] <Irritiable> Hi. Lubuntu typical RAM usage is ~500MB?
 No. You can run Lubuntu with 256mb but don't expect whistles.
[12:40] <Irritiable> lubot2: I was looking for a low RAM usage setup with Lubuntu. I do not want the (pardon me) bloatware of a default video / audio player and text editor and such (nano is fine; but it should default to Notepad++).
[12:40] <Irritiable> Video/Audio should default to VLC.
[12:41] <Irritiable> Same for the other bloatware ("email" and "online accounts" nonsense). Is there a way to remove the default 'accessibility' nonsense that ships with Lubuntu? Preferably a pre-written bash-script? :)
[12:43] <Irritiable> Startup finished in 4.242s (firmware) + 4.585s (loader) + 5.829s (kernel) + 3.317s (userspace) = 17.974s; I'm impressed.
[12:43] <JohnDoe_71Rus> ssd ?
[12:44] <Irritiable> JohnDoe_71Rus: Yes. Low end quality. 64GB size at that.
[12:44] <JohnDoe_71Rus> my laptop 2007 year with 14.04 boot about 1 minute
[12:44] <Irritiable> vbox-web/drive are taking ~5s.
[12:44] <Irritiable> This is sadly Ubuntu 16.04 LTS 64-bit running LXDE.
[12:45] <Irritiable> I was not impressed by Unity. In fact: It left a sour taste in my mouth faster than KDE Plasma.
[12:46] <Irritiable> I'd prefer the power-off to fully powered-on and booted (idling) state to be at 10s or less.
[12:46] <Irritiable> Preferred RAM usage to be at 256MB or less (I am not a fan of bells and whistles). CPU usage at idle should be at 1% (although the current 10% is acceptable).
[12:47] <Irritiable> Is there an easy method (init.d?) to cause typical daemons / services that start-up upon logon to be delayed by a few seconds (EG: network access / audio)?
[12:48] <Irritiable> Also: Is booting in blind mode vs. another mode affecting the actual boot time (there is only an on-board graphics 'card' with this laptop)?
[13:00] <Irritiable> It appears under Ubuntu 16.04 LTS running LXDE: All *.sh files default with a dialog asking permissions to execute a script or execute a script file under a terminal; How would you cause it to simply execute as a terminal (holding the window open /after/ execution terminates)?
[14:34] <saliorMoonLT> Is there a reason I am experiencing (minor) screen tearing while using Google Chrome browser?
[16:19] <Vallu> Hi! How
[16:20] <Vallu> how to backup an iphone on Lubuntu
[16:29] <Vallu> sorry, I meant: is there a app/way to backup an Iphone to Lubuntu?
[16:35] <JohnDoe_71Rus> iTunes?
[16:38] <Irritiable> Vallu: Are you trying to copy all the userland data off from the iPhone and store it on the storage medium of Lubuntu (hdd/sdd)?
[16:39] <JohnDoe_71Rus> i use android
[16:39] <Irritiable> JohnDoe_71Rus: Same.
[16:39] <Irritiable> Android 6.0.1 sadly on my phone.
[16:40] <Vallu> Should I manage to backup the Iphone, I would then move files to a external HD
[16:40] <Vallu> userland data?
[16:46] <Vallu> I had been using Imac for more than 10 years, so I just had to connect the phone through Itunes. After my Imac passed over, I decided to try Lubuntu on my very old pc; I'm quite happy, but I really do need to backup my phone. I'm aware there should be a way to save photos and music, but I would first exclude the chance to backup contacts, chats, sms and so on...
[16:57] <JohnDoe_71Rus> https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-itunes-on-linux-1999251
[16:58] <JohnDoe_71Rus> https://askubuntu.com/questions/414737/how-do-i-install-itunes-on-ubuntu
[18:47] <Irritiable> Is there a config file that holds all default application associations with extensions?
[18:48] <Irritiable> EG: Open *.sh files with GEdit?
[21:00] <tamperino> Hey guys. I decided to install Lubuntu on a macbook air (2013), but I can't detect wifi, and there's no ethernet port. Would downloading the broadcom drivers on my windows PC and putting them on a USB stick work?
[21:20] <prince-charmant> tamperino, ---> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2092695
[22:02] <TacoGS> Does anyone know what the qt5 dev meta package is?
[22:02] <tsimonq2> TacoGS: I'll look, sec.
[22:02] <tsimonq2> TacoGS: You're probably looking for qtbase5-dev or qtbase5-dev-tools.
[22:03] <TacoGS> lets find out
[22:03] <TacoGS> when I search qt5 meta... google shit the bed
[22:03] <TacoGS> every distro gave me a list of 5000 packages
[22:05] <TacoGS> you were very close, you did solve it for me
[22:05] <TacoGS> qtbase5-dev
[22:05] <TacoGS> qtbase5-dev-tools
[22:05] <tsimonq2> Ahhh.
[22:05] <tsimonq2> Same source package. ;)
[22:05] <TacoGS> I appreciate your assistance :D
[22:05] <tsimonq2> No problem :D


[08:11] <neuralis> fabbione: have we considered shipping with some sane limits enabled by default in /etc/security/limits.conf?
[08:11] <fabbione> neuralis: the defaults are sane. :)
[08:11] <fabbione> no we are not going to touch them
[08:11] <fabbione> not for dapper
[08:12] <fabbione> and we are way past FF for that
[08:12] <neuralis> i didn't think any limits are enabled by defualt, are they?
[08:12] <fabbione> there are no limits
[08:12] <fabbione> and we don't want them
[08:12] <fabbione> it's more the time they break something that really protects you against stupidity
[08:13] <fabbione> i have seen far too many apache installs broken for the crap in limits.conf
[08:13] <maswan> if you have a multi-user system where you need them, you know much better what kind of limits you need
[08:13] <neuralis> it seems strange that we ship a system that's susceptible to a forkbomb out of the box.
[08:14] <fabbione> neuralis: i can give you a 20 lines C program that no matter what limits you put there it will kill your machine...
[08:16] <neuralis> right, but an nproc limit is low-hanging fruit. i don't feel too strongly about it, but i do think we should ship one.
[08:16] <maswan> hmm.. I think the only one we enforce is a 3 hour soft cputime limit on our multiuser machines
[08:17] <maswan> and that's mostly because people forget looping processes
[08:18] <maswan> neuralis: what should it be then? would a limit on 100k be useful?
[08:18] <fabbione> neuralis: i think who really needs limits should set them up as it fits better for them
[08:18] <maswan> neuralis: because below that I see it conflicting with real use
[08:23] <neuralis> maswan: your users run 100k processes in parallel?
[08:24] <maswan> neuralis: apache might
[08:24] <neuralis> very unlikely, and that's a special case.
[08:25] <neuralis> in any case, i'll consider throwing it into a spec for dapper+1, and we can get some other feedback.
[08:27] <neuralis> fabbione: send me your 20-line C program. there are any number of ways i can think of to bring down a machine, but i'd love to see yours. :)
[08:28] <fabbione> neuralis: just do a while loop with open(filefoo); close(fd);
[08:28] <fabbione> make sure you open and close
[08:29] <fabbione> a perfectly legal operation that will not hit limits at all
[08:29] <fabbione> 1 file open
[08:29] <fabbione> you will see your machine crashing in a few seconds.. depending on the RAM
[08:30] <fabbione> do not sleep in the middle.. no need to do any operations in the loop
[08:30] <fabbione> just open/close :)
[10:33] <TMM> hi!
[10:33] <TMM> to repost my question on -devel:
[10:33] <TMM> what would me the chances of getting iscsi support into the -server kernel before dapper releases? slim? extremely small? near-zero? :) it pretty much doesn't touch any files, it just adds a couple
[10:33] <mkrufky> zero -- dapper kernel is in code freeze
[10:33] <TMM> crud...
[10:34] <TMM> I only just noticed that it's missing
[10:34] <mkrufky> TMM: they are only doing bug fixes
[10:34] <mkrufky> TMM: try #ubuntu-kernel
[10:34] <TMM> hahaha, ok :)
[10:34] <mkrufky> TMM: maybe they can help you
[10:34] <mkrufky> ;-)
[10:36] <TMM> but, thanks mkrufky :)
[10:37] <mkrufky> TMM: i try
[10:37] <mkrufky> TMM: you shouldnt be afraid to compile your own kernel
[10:37] <mkrufky> TMM: the ubuntu guys frown on it, though
[10:37] <TMM> ow, I'm not, it's just that our customers won't like it very much
[10:37] <mkrufky> TMM: you will lose ubuntu tech support
[10:37] <mkrufky> gotcha
[10:37] <TMM> they *really* won't like that
[10:38] <mkrufky> well, you can always provide a package for them
[10:38] <TMM> not having iscsi support is going to be a huge problem
[10:38] <TMM> not only for me, but for others, and I am a fucking retard that I didn't check
[10:38] <TMM> earlier
[10:39] <TMM> I noteced it was missing from breezy as well, and never bothered to check dapper, until today, I was sort of assuming it would be there
[10:39] <mkrufky> TMM:  here is a GREAT howto for building .deb kernel-pachages
[10:39] <mkrufky> http://www.us.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch08s05.html.en#id2530099
[10:39] <TMM> I really don't want to put any more sles boxes
[10:39] <mkrufky> if i were you, I would build a kernel package, and host it in your own apt repo for your customers
[10:39] <TMM> mkrufky: I know how to do all that, but then I would have to track security. and prompty recompile
[10:40] <mkrufky> TMM: but, this DOES violate your support
[10:40] <mkrufky> yup :-(
[10:40] <TMM> I know, and I don't want that
[10:40] <mkrufky> ok
[10:40] <TMM> also, our company is looking to become ubuntu support reseller... would be a pretty stupid move
[10:40] <mkrufky> well, then.... your company may have some pull
[10:40] <TMM> meh, doubtful
[10:40] <TMM> we aren't yet
[10:41] <TMM> I am just too late probably
[10:41] <TMM> I am a fucking moron :)
[10:41] <mkrufky> :-(
[10:41] <TMM> trying to push ubuntu in the company I work for, and forgetting to implement something as critical as this...
[10:42] <ajmitch> TMM: we're not at kernel freeze yet, so there still might be a chance
[10:42] <TMM> that would be awesome... just tell me what I need to do :)
[10:42] <Fujitsu> More than a month until kernel freeze.
[10:42] <TMM> I'll do anything
[10:42] <Fujitsu> It is quite possible that you could get it in, as there is a focus on servers this time around.
[10:42] <Fujitsu> May 18.
[10:43] <ajmitch> TMM: filed a bug in malone asking for it?
[10:43] <TMM> I've got big hardware to test all of this crap on, I got 3 different types of iscsi sans to test from, got amd64 box too
[10:43] <ajmitch> talked to the guys in #ubuntu-kernel?
[10:43] <TMM> ajmitch: I just asked, there doesn't seem to be anyone home yet
[10:43] <TMM> ajmitch: and I haven't asked on malone yet...
[10:44] <TMM> having iscsi support would mean that I can stop putting crappy sles9 boxes in places where vmware needs to run for instance
[10:45] <TMM> with rhcs now in dapper, I think it is strange that it isn't in actually :)
[10:45] <TMM> rhcs is pretty darn cool
[10:45] <TMM> I implemented a 6 node cluster on redhat as4 for a customer :)
[10:45] <TMM> neat hardware too
[10:46] <TMM> I felt like a kid in a candystore
[10:46] <TMM> :)
[10:49] <TMM> ajmitch: what would I need to do? put it in malone? I don't necceceraly want to request it as a feature, more like 'permission' or something, I don't like asking others to do "my" work :)
[10:50] <TMM> ajmitch: plus, there is also the matter of the user-space utilities that would have to go into main/ then I suppose... that's probably a tad nastier
[10:50] <TMM> I really need to go sleep now, early day tomorrow...
[10:51] <TMM> ajmitch: could you please email me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if you can help me with some information, please? :) I would really like to have this in dapper
[10:51] <TMM> bye now


[14:31] <RainCT> Guys, what would you think about a "rotate wallpaper" otion in the appearance window?
[14:42]  * RainCT is bored and ponders doing something from your TODO :P
[16:55] <qzip> good evening
[16:55] <qzip> i have a problem with pppoe-connection: it breaks after some time of working
[16:55] <qzip> tried to install via pppoeconf and nm-applet both
[16:55] <qzip> can you help me please?
[21:59] <walters> hey, wondering if you guys had done anything WRT the dbus update yet


[03:54] <navsen> hello?
[04:14] <stochastic> hi
[04:14] <stochastic> how are you navsen
[04:47] <navsen> good
[04:47] <navsen> I was just wondering how the project was going and if there are any plans to participate in google summer of code?
[04:57] <navsen> ok, well I gotta go.
[10:04] <stochastic> ScottL, ^^  You'd be the one to organize this if it's something we can tap into.
[10:27] <astraljava> We're doing very little ground-breaking stuff, I think vanilla would be a better place for that, or some of the upstream projects.
[10:28] <knome> thinking pretty much the same for xubuntu
[10:29] <knome> i'm not sure who would have all the time for mentoring
[10:29] <astraljava> I mean, what is there to code, when you're practically doing integration?
[10:29] <knome> and if somebody did, that probably took all of his work hours away
[10:32] <knome> well, there is bits here and there ;)
[10:32] <astraljava> That is not to say, if someone found something really cool and interesting, and wanted to work on it, that I would oppose of it. Not at all, I could even find time to mentor, but I have no idea what that would be.
[10:32] <astraljava> Of course, but anything that lasted throughout the summer?
[10:33] <knome> mind you, we're implementing a menu editor completely from scratch this cycle ;]
[10:33] <astraljava> Well, that could be something worth pondering about.
[10:33] <knome> yeah, too bad one of my friends already wrote it :)
[10:33] <astraljava> But we'd be stealing that from you guys anyway. ;)
[10:34] <knome> hehe
[10:34] <astraljava> Ahh...
[10:34] <knome> no, feel free to use that
[10:34] <knome> well, it's not a full-fledged menu editor
[10:34] <knome> so i lied a bit
[10:34] <knome> but you can (un)hide items and add "bookmarks" to the menu
[10:34] <astraljava> Ok.
[10:37] <astraljava> Well, of course we'd feel free to use it. It _is_ free software, right? :D
[10:42] <knome> let me think
[10:42] <knome> ;)
[10:42] <astraljava> *frown*
[10:42] <knome> i suppose
[10:42] <knome> :P
[13:56] <scott-work> astraljava: can i put you down as the responsible person for some livedvd work items in the blueprint?
[13:56] <astraljava> scott-work: Yes, all, if you want.
[13:56] <scott-work> astraljava: just the first two are what i'm thinking:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-ubuntustudio-livedvd
[13:57] <scott-work> astraljava: well, there are others for ubiquity and others as well, i was hoping to distribute the load
[13:57] <astraljava> scott-work: Of course, and since I now have the time, I will try to unload you (as dirty as it sounds) as much as possible.
[13:58] <scott-work> lols
[13:59] <scott-work> astraljava: would you edit the work items as see fit to assign yourself and also make the ones you are currently working on as 'INPROGRESS"?
[14:00] <scott-work> my main concern right now is to update the work items so that the number of TODO items decreases
[14:00] <scott-work> i don't want to lie, of course, just accurately reflect reality, at least as reasonably close as possible
[14:01] <scott-work> astraljava: i had already suggested to falktx that he try his hand at the ubiquity patch portion
[14:01] <scott-work> but that requires us to make some decisions very soon about work flows
[14:01] <scott-work> astraljava: BUT, i don't think we _need_ to reconcile the ubiquity issue right now
[14:02] <scott-work> i would mainly like to focus on getting the live-dvd task resolved first, and i think working through ubiquity might retard that progress
[14:02] <astraljava> scott-work: Yes of course, I'm sorry I've been a tad lousy with the stuff from the project management point of view.
[14:02] <scott-work> and since cjwatson is going to be unavailable soon i think live-dvd is the priority
[14:02] <astraljava> Yep, that's my reasoning too.
[14:03] <scott-work> astraljava: oh no, no.  not you, but me?  aye, i have been lax lately :/
[14:03] <scott-work> but i'm getting back into the routine again :)
[14:03] <astraljava> I think we all need to participate, and you just can't handle it all.
[14:04] <scott-work> now, if i can just get an answer about REVU and when it might be up, then we can start the lowlatency kernel push in earnest :-D
[14:04] <falktx> revu is being deprecated afaik
[14:04] <falktx> it never really worked
[14:04] <falktx> and now ubuntu has the software-center app-portal thing
[14:05] <astraljava> falktx: True, but it is still _supposed_ to be there, until the two projects agree on using mentors.d.o, for instance.
[14:05] <falktx> yeah
[14:05] <falktx> just that I gave up on that a long time ago
[14:07] <scott-work> astraljava: when you talked with cjwatson the other day about live-dvd, which channel did you do it in?  i hope to learn some more about it by reading the logs
[14:07] <astraljava> scott-work: On #ubuntu-devel.
[14:07] <scott-work> thank you
[14:07] <astraljava> scott-work: And you mentioned REVU again on #xubuntu-devel, which I'm not sure was the correct channel.
[14:08] <astraljava> scott-work: I notified of this, and the fact that I already asked about REVU on #-motu a while ago. You need to pay attention, sir! :D
[14:08] <scott-work> astraljava: heheh, thanks :P
[14:08] <scott-work> it looks like REVU is still down :(   i want to get the -lowlatency kernel into it :|
[14:09] <astraljava> scott-work: I guess you could look into utilizing mentors.debian.org for that.
[14:09] <astraljava> scott-work: Or upload to some other public place, and notify necessary people of its whereabouts. Luke springs to mind.
[14:10] <scott-work> astraljava: the later is what i was thinking as well, abogani already has it in his ppa
[14:11] <astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, but they will want to see the other bits and pieces, on top of the binary package.
[14:11] <astraljava> scott-work: That bzr branch Laney suggested isn't a bad idea, either.
[14:11] <scott-work> astraljava: but the source is there, right?
[14:12] <scott-work> in ppa i meant
[14:12] <scott-work> astraljava: so maybe we create a bzr branch under the -dev team?
[14:15] <astraljava> scott-work: If you dget the *.dsc from a PPA, it doesn't give you the debian/, does it?
[14:15] <astraljava> scott-work: Yes, that would be my suggestion.
[14:20] <scott-work> astraljava: not sure about the *.dsc/PPA/debian/ bit... i have always grabbed the source, removed '~ppa*', and then ran debuild
[14:21] <scott-work> astraljava: i have final changes to seeds for theme-ui update and then i'll move onto the lowlatency kernel then
[14:21] <astraljava> scott-work: Yep. That's why the bzr branch would be best.
[14:22] <scott-work> TheMuso: do you have any input on the fact that REVU doesn't seem to be available, placing the lowlatency kernel into one of our BZR branches for review by you and another MOTU?
[14:22] <astraljava> Giving upload rights to the kernel team would guarantee the best possible cooperation.
[14:33] <scott-work> astraljava: good point!  do we have a kernel team?  :grin
[14:33]  * scott-work thinks that he's suppossed to create one per the blueprint and hasn't done it yet
[14:34] <astraljava> scott-work: We don't, but the Ubuntu project does, and they will want to work with you (okay, us|US).
[14:47] <scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure the kernel team does want to work with us|US
[14:47] <scott-work> that wasn't meant to be deragatory or mean
[14:48] <scott-work> but i think the kernel team has been very clear that the lowlatency kernel will be a community maintained kernel and they will not support it
[14:49] <scott-work> and they (apw, leann, steve c.) seemed quite okay with us making it as long as we base off of the ubuntu kernel and maintain security updates
[14:50] <astraljava> scott-work: Fine, I don't really mind. But still, having it publicly shared would make it easier to maintain, community or not.
[14:53] <scott-work> astraljava: oh, i should have pointed out as well that abogani already has a git repo set up for it as well
[14:54] <astraljava> scott-work: That's good, too. But having it under the studio-dev, for instance, would make it much more efficient, privilege-management-wise, for instance. But yeah, we probably have to think about it more.
[14:55] <scott-work> good point
[14:57] <scott-work> i like the idea of putting it under a -dev bzr branch myself, not sure i can justify that desire though
[14:58] <astraljava> I do understand that it's Alessio who's going to work with it the most, so we will have to respect his opinions about it the most.
[14:59] <astraljava> But, if it is, by definition, community-maintained, others would have to have access to it as well. But there should be certain limitations to 'others', it's a kernel after all, FCOL! :D
[15:00] <scott-work> hehe, good points, again
[15:02] <scott-work> my understanding (limited and inferred) from the uds session was that if alessio maintains the code in git, it can be rebased on new/updated kernel fairly easily due to some automation
[15:02] <scott-work> this apparently applies to security updates as well
[15:04] <astraljava> Yeah. And I do understand that kernel is exclusively developed and maintained in git, and that is in strong favor of keeping it in git in the future. git is fairly easily managed, privileges-wise, though, so we shouldn't have problems there.
[18:09] <scott-work> progress looks much better after updating the blueprint work items :)   http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
[18:09] <scott-work> thank you for helping with that astraljava
[18:12] <ailo> scott-work, Read that each distro must decide for themselves if they will be LTS or not. Xubuntu is named as being one. Does UbuntuStudio need to sign up for that as well?
[18:17] <scott-work> ailo: yes we do, i had forgotten about that
[18:17] <scott-work> ailo: is this something you would like to head up?
[18:17] <scott-work> i would really appreciate it
[18:18] <scott-work> although i think astraljava and i talked about this we considered discussing it at this week's meeting (yes, we REALLY will have one)
[18:19] <scott-work> so maybe a first step is to send an email to the -dev list noting that we need to apply, asking for opinions on what time durations (old LTS is 3 years, new LTS is five years - although we can choose what we want), and then mention discussion will occur in the meeting
[18:20] <astraljava> ...which reminds me to check up on the agenda.
[18:21] <scott-work> this is the email about the LTS approval for other derivatives:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000922.html
[18:21] <scott-work> astraljava: i'm not too worried about populating the agenda with unnecessary items if you are not as well
[18:21] <scott-work> i wouldn't mind keeping it short and sweet...maybe the LTS items and then an update on where we stand for 12.04
[18:22] <scott-work> unless you think we need to have more and i'm agreeable to that as well, of course ;)
[18:23] <astraljava> scott-work: Define unnecessary. :)
[18:25] <scott-work> uhhhh, anything we don't need?  :P
[18:25] <scott-work> hmmmmm, good question, actually
[18:25] <scott-work> i would rather have a nice short, but effective meeting, rather that address a bunch of topics, for which we aren't prepared, because we are trying to emulate another team's meeting agenda or style
[18:26] <scott-work> i suppose that is really what i meant
[18:26] <scott-work> although i am not intending to be deragatory about any other teams or their agendas
[18:29] <astraljava> Satisfactory? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012January22
[18:32] <scott-work> hehe, yeah, that's pretty lean
[18:32] <scott-work> thanks for updating that, to be honest i had completely forgotten about some of the items under "old business"
[18:32] <scott-work> astraljava: are you making any progress so far on the live-dvd?
[18:34] <scott-work> i hadn't actually had a chance to read or digest what cjwatson told you in the irc logs
[18:37] <scott-work> astraljava: hmmm, i was hoping cjwatson would have given more explanation
[18:39] <scott-work> i'm confused actually
[18:40] <scott-work> other than not including that installer, what would we not want available on the live dvd?  maybe i need to reread the irc log
[18:42] <scott-work> s/that installer/the installer
[18:42] <scott-work> i also realize that we probably will need a new pacakge:   'ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntustudio'
[18:42] <astraljava> I don't know, really. I haven't had much time today, in fact, to spend on that.
[18:42] <astraljava> Uhh... yeah. :-/
[18:42] <astraljava> Who's got artistic skills in here?
[18:43]  * astraljava sent a meeting reminder on u-s-devel@
[18:44] <scott-work> astraljava: you rock!
[18:45]  * astraljava bows
[19:02] <scott-work> interesting, a "professional DAW for linxu"  http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/01/bitwig-professional-music-creation.html
[19:10] <falktx> lol, "professional"
[20:59] <TheMuso> scott-work: I know nothing about revu not being available, and a kernel tree in a bzr branch is only going to cause much pain.
[22:03] <len> Just wondering. Is there any web page that has the work flows we want and the applications and usage that goes with them?
[22:39] <astraljava> len: You're probably looking for this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
[22:40] <astraljava> len: Also of considerable source of information, this is a good point to start from: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio
[22:40] <ScottL> TheMuso, we weren't going to host the code necessarily in the bzr branch, it was just to get the code reviewed


[16:06] <gabriele_> Hi...
[16:07] <gabriele_> I have got a problem with my webcam... it isn't seen by my pc
[23:01] <darkxst>  jbicha, is gnome tweak tool working for you currently?
[23:04] <darkxst> jbicha, http://pastebin.com/JuLaTfzQ


 @mitya57 if qt6-base need lto disabling, would you say the rest of the stack does as well?
 Or do we need to work through the stack one by one?
 I don't know. In Qt 5 times build flags from qtbase applied everywhere, but Qt 6 has a different build system so this may have changed.
 Trying qt base anyway, then will see what happens I guess. I note most of qt5 seems to be in the lto-disabled-list package
 Ah, that will explain it.
 Adding to that list would be much better than patching everything.
 Indeed
 qt6-base build with LTO off, but then fails on ppc64el on symbols
 sigh....
 I can mark those symbols as optional in Debian.
 That would be good. I'll retry builds in a clean PPA 1st, as armhf in the current one actually built with LTO, so I want to start there from scratch (re @mitya57: I can mark those symbols as optional in Debian.)
 Then I guess I can follow this: https://www.processon.com/view/link/61f50f161efad479c0785a08
 @mitya57 tempting to just shove all of Qt is the lto-disable-list and be done with it, but I guess it should all be checked propperly?
 If Qt 5 was there, then it makes sense.
 Ok, I will compromise then. Build qt6-base, then try the next tier in the Qt6 stack. If most of that also fails with LTO, then I'll stop and propose the whole stack goes into the lto-disabled-list. Reasonable? (re @mitya57: If Qt 5 was there, then it makes sense.)
 https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/e0896d46/file_3938_tgs.webp
 Nice sticker!
 so far only qt6-qtbase seems to have an LTO issue
 symbols are an issue though
 wondering if some of those are LTO related
[16:01] <fvogt> How do you enable LTO? If you just pass -flto, that won't work
[16:02] <fvogt> You'd need to use DCMAKE_INTERPROCEDURAL_OPTIMIZATION:BOOL=ON and let Qt/CMake handle it itself
[16:02] <fvogt> Then it disables LTO on the version tagging object.
[16:06] <RikMills> fvogt: LTO is turned on via a patched dpkg in Ubuntu
[16:06] <fvogt> I suspected something like that
[16:07] <RikMills> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu2
[16:08] <RikMills> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu4
[16:08] <fvogt> You'll have to opt out of that and go the cmake way
[16:09] <RikMills> if I end up adding the qt6 packages to the excluded list it will never get enabled
 yes, disabling LTO seems to make most symbols issues go away. probably some slight delta to go to debian for ppc64el symbols
[16:40] <fvogt> You don't have to disable LTO, just disable the dpkg injection of -flto and set CMAKE_INTERPROCEDURAL_OPTIMIZATION instead
[16:41] <RikMills> not going to carry such a delta to debian. adding all qt6 to the lto-disabled list until debian enabled LTO by default seems the best thing here
 https://launchpad.net/bugs/1961324


[00:42] <jo-erlend> are people aware that couchdb isn't syncing? I haven't seen any notices about it or any news.
[00:51]  * DiegoSarmentero is back (gone 00:00:56)
[00:51]  * DiegoSarmentero is away: verdura...
[00:52]  * DiegoSarmentero is back (gone 00:01:00)
[00:53]  * DiegoSarmentero is away: Not here... send me an e-mail! :P
[00:53]  * DiegoSarmentero is back (gone 00:00:02)
[06:29] <jo-erlend> does any sync of any couchdb work for any users?
[06:32] <jo-erlend> I keep seeing status updates like these: «    2011-07-08 Syncing of Firefox bookmarks is not working for some users due to a server issue. We are looking into this and trying to resolve it ASAP.» The dates seem to change, but nothing else. It's a little bit discouraging that the service can be down for weeks and weeks with no explanation or progress. It seems a little strange that is says "for some users". I haven't been able to tr
[06:32] <jo-erlend> ack down anyone who's able to sync any couchdb.
[06:44] <jo-erlend> I really _need_ to get my contacts soon. Can someone dump them for me? They're fairly useless for me now.
[08:26] <Ademan> is it possible to rsync to ubuntu one?
[08:26] <karni> Ademan: No, it is not possible.
[08:27] <karni> Ademan: U1 uses custom binary protocol. Which is open source.
[08:27] <Ademan> karni: thanks, that's too bad


[06:39] <godbyk> Hello, tisqueldotim. Right now the Ubuntu Manual project has been focusing on the regular Ubuntu distribution. We haven't worked on manuals for Lubuntu, Kubuntu, etc.
[06:40] <godbyk> tisqueldotim: Having said that, it's something we're interested in exploring. If you think enough people would be interested in such a manual (and would be willing to help create it), I'm happy to help you with our tools and we could even distribute the manual on our website.
[10:51] <tisqueldotim> godbyk, Well that's interesting .. I have to say that I'm looking at both the Ubuntu manual and the eian administrators handbook , and I'd like to be able to use the 'comments' tool to leave such text as post-it's in the manual for my friends and colleagues to click on and assess as the manual evolves (as it is copy-left) Do you know of such a program  ( At moment I use nitro-PDF ) and can you give me the name ??
[10:51] <tisqueldotim> **debian admin ...
[20:27] <tisqueldotim> godbyk, What were those tools again ??
[21:10] <godbyk> Hellp, tisqueldotim.
[21:10] <godbyk> tisqueldotim: You might have a look at crocodoc.com.  We used that a bit for editing last time.
[21:10] <godbyk> You can upload the PDF and annotate it.  I think you can download the annotated PDF, too, but I'm not sure.
[21:11] <godbyk> The tools I was talking about are the tools that we use to generate the manual: LaTeX, our document template, website, etc.


[04:22] <lostson> hmm my fluxbox based edition is coming along nicely
[04:22] <lostson> fun stuff to mess with
[04:59] <lostson> the fluxbox ubuntu theme is pretty slick
[15:52] <mikeputnam> next debian by 2/5-2/6  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/01/msg00003.html
[17:40] <lostson> hmm to c or c++ that is the question
[19:56] <lostson> +-
[19:56] <lostson> sorrry 8 month old was typing