[01:59] <mirek> may i ask for help? i am new to launchpad and i would like to add new serie of drupal cms
[01:59] <mirek> (i added new release to old serie :-( )
[02:02] <mirek> no roseta admin in here?
[03:00] <AlexMBas> hello all
[03:00] <OgMaciel> can someone lend me a hand trying to solve a problem with Rosetta?
[03:02] <AlexMBas> we're having problems with % substition on strings
[03:02] <OgMaciel> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/scribus/+pots/scribus/pt_BR/+translate?batch=10&show=untranslated on string 99 for instance
[03:03] <AlexMBas> any rosetta developer around here ?
[03:04] <jamesh> my guess is that those strings have been incorrectly marked as C format strings in the PO template
[03:04] <OgMaciel> jamesh: true
[03:04] <OgMaciel> jamesh: is this something we'd have to fix it upstream?
[03:04] <AlexMBas> yeah
[03:05] <jamesh> Rosetta performs special checks to C format strings to make sure that the translations are compatible format strings
[03:05] <jamesh> (which isn't really desired if the string isn't a format string)
[03:05] <AlexMBas> jamesh, % followed by a space character should not be identified as a C format string, shound it ?
[03:05] <jamesh> the best fix would be to the scribus source code, telling xgettext that the string isn't a format string
[03:06] <OgMaciel> AlexMBas: lemme know the outcome?  I'll be doing something else
[03:06] <AlexMBas> ok
[03:06] <AlexMBas> thanks OgMaciel
[03:06] <OgMaciel> AlexMBas: my pleasure buddy
[03:07] <AlexMBas> jamesh, who should do it on scribus source code ?
[03:07] <AlexMBas> we (translators) ? or should we open a bug report for the upstream package ?
[03:08] <jamesh> AlexMBas: probably the scribus developers -- if they add a comment like /* xgettext:no-c-format */ above the string, it will fix the problem for future po templates
[03:08] <AlexMBas> cool
[03:08] <AlexMBas> so I'll try to contact them
[03:08] <jamesh> I am not sure if we have a policy for unsetting c-format for existing data in Rosetta though (I don't work on that part of Launchpad)
[03:08] <AlexMBas> thank yoiu very much jamesh
[03:09] <AlexMBas> I'll try to contact the upstream development team
[03:56] <jdong> is it OK to attach deb packages to bug reports?
[03:56] <jdong> bandwidth/storage wise
[03:57] <jdong> I don't want to be abusing launchpad's generous services
[03:57] <spiv> jdong: should be fine.
[03:57] <jdong> thanks!
[03:57] <spiv> Assuming it's not openoffice-sized ;)
[03:57] <jdong> Ubuntu Backports testers are gonna love you, spiv
[03:58] <jdong> no, I'm not gonna upload any beasts like that!
[03:58] <jdong> most of them are small packages, like rhythmbox or dia
[03:58] <jdong> :)
[03:58] <jdong> this will greatly improve our testing base
[04:03] <jdong> btw, I forgot to say this earlier, but thanks for making bzr hosting and knits work on launchpad :)
[04:04] <jdong> the automatix team loves you guys for that :)
[04:04] <spiv> Cool :)
[04:06] <jdong> these canonical projects are just nothing short of amazing
[04:06] <jdong> in about a year you guys have made a service that rivals Sourceforge
[04:06] <spiv> Hmm, they don't seem to be using team branches, I wonder if that's intentional.
[04:06] <jdong> https://launchpad.net/products/automatix/+branches
[04:06] <jdong> we've got 4 team-authored branches
[04:07] <jdong> they're still learning how to work the bzr system
[04:07] <spiv> Oh, I was looking at the "Official Automatix.KDE Head" one, which is under ~mstlyevil
[04:07] <spiv> But I see there are some in ~automatix after all.
[04:08] <spiv> Excellent :)
[04:08] <jamesh> spiv: that is a "authored by team, registered by user" branch
[04:08] <jamesh> so ends up in the user's namespace
[04:08] <spiv> jamesh: Well, it's the location it was pushed to that I was interested in.
[04:11] <spiv> jamesh: Mostly I was wondering if the ~<teamname> directories were discoverable enough that people would use them or not.  It seems they are.
[04:11] <jdong> spiv: will launchpad eventually get some documentation on using hosted branches?
[04:12] <jdong> spiv: I only figured it out because I was browsing around with a SFTP client, and came across the team folders
[04:12] <jdong> then I asked ddaa in #bzr about it
[04:13] <jamesh> jdong: ddaa wrote a blog article about it (and will write a followup on team branches)
[04:13] <jdong> jamesh: I know that; but I don't think the average person exploring launchpad.net will figure that out
[04:14] <jdong> something on either the bazaar info page or the register branches, or even the +branches/ page would be cool
[04:14] <jamesh> jdong: yep.  Perhaps we should get some docs up on help.launchpad.net about it.
[04:17] <spiv> jdong: https://launchpad.net/bazaar has a short overview
[04:17] <spiv> d'oh
[08:06] <stub> SteveA: I don't suppose you know what airlines might offer cheap flights between London->Vilnius, Vilnius->Paris, Prague->Bucharest and Prague->London?
[08:13] <jamesh> stub: I got an air baltic flight for london -> vilnius and back (the same flight Steve is taking)
[08:18] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes time. Estimated downtime is 10 mins.
[08:18] <stub> This is for the regular code update.
[08:36] <stub> I've had to abort the update. Another attempt will be made later today.
[08:37] <jamesh> any particular problem?
[08:38] <fabbione> stub: what did explode?
[08:40] <stub> I need to rerun a data migration script as some bad data has crept back in.
[08:44] <stub> Znarl, elmo: Gangotri app server will be down for the next few hours so ignore the alerts
[09:07] <SteveA> stub: london to vilnius and vilnius to paris: try air baltic (as james said) and lithuanian airlines (dunno what they're called nowadays.  all the formerly state-owned companies have recently rebranded themselves and no one knows who is who anymore)
[09:18] <jamesh> lifeless: while working on my cscvs branch, I was looking at doing a test case for changing a file to a symlink in subversion, but it seems that subversion prevents you from doing that
[09:18] <lifeless> ahha. if you do a delete and add then of the same name, changing type ?
[09:19] <jamesh> that's what you need to do, yes.
[09:20] <jamesh> so we shouldn't see evil branches that trip up bzr in that respect
[09:24] <lifeless> wel, I'd like to be sure that that sequence wont trip up cscvs still - but its good to know that bzr can represent what svn does
[09:25] <carlos_> morning
[09:26] <jamesh> lifeless: sure.  I'll make sure that the file -> symlink replace (and reverse) is tested
[09:36] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for its regular code update. Estimated downtime is 10 minutes.
[09:40] <jamesh> lifeless: I'm doing brad's at the moment.  Thanks for the nag
[09:42] <SteveA> stub: ping
[09:45] <stub> SteveA: pong
[09:45] <lifeless> jamesh: thanks.
[09:50] <jamesh> lifeless: I included some user agent stats in the analysis of the bazaar.launchpad.net logs.  It looks like we only had ~ 10 people try to access it with bzr-0.7 over the 50 days
[09:51] <lifeless> good :)
[09:52] <jamesh> the logs should give a good indication of how people adopt new versions of bzr
[09:59] <glatzor> hi lifeless. Is it possible to remove a branch from bazaar.launchpad.net? I accidentally pushed the wrong branch to lp and after canceling the transaction process my bazaar repo on lp broke.
[10:03] <lifeless> glatzor: no. you can repair the content using lftp and bzrlib though
[10:03] <lifeless> jamesh: on pending-reviews, carols librarian sampledata branch shows as needs review, but AFAICT its always been in w-i-p.. any ideas ?
[10:07] <carlos> stub: hmm, I just remember that I had to remember you the need to execute the migration script for my branch....
[10:07] <glatzor> lifeless: could you please elaborate on this?
[10:08] <stub> carlos: I already had. Duplicates crept in during the migration though - however, I think I can work around it.
[10:09] <carlos> stub: yeah, but I guess someone was added after the initial migration
[10:09] <lifeless> glatzor: what do you mean
[10:09] <stub> carlos: I ran the script just before, and dupes crept in during the run.
[10:09] <glatzor> lifeless: I don't even know how to fix a local repo :)
[10:10] <carlos> you can remove the restriction, start launchpad, run the migration script and add the restriction again
[10:10] <lifeless> glatzor: well, give some details about what is wrong
[10:10] <stub> carlos: Not really, but I can work around it similarly.
[10:10] <carlos> ok
[10:11] <stub> Not that it matters, we have had to revert to last weeks release anyway due to other problems.
[10:11] <glatzor> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/people/glatzor/+branch/gnome-app-install/sebi
[10:11] <glatzor> I get the same error message if I try to push
[10:19] <glatzor> lifeless: do you need more to know?
[10:20] <lifeless> lftp to the branch url
[10:20] <lifeless> remove the directory .bzr/branch
[10:20] <jamesh> lifeless: I think the problem is the first item in Andrew's queue
[10:20] <lifeless> and push again
[10:21] <lifeless> removed it
[10:21] <lifeless> can you run the script ?
[10:27] <glatzor> lifeless: one little question: how can I connect using lftp?
[10:27] <lifeless> ftp URL
[10:27] <lifeless> erm
[10:27] <lifeless> lftp URL
[10:44] <bradb> stub: around?
[10:44] <stub> bradb: yes
[10:46] <bradb> stub: How hard would it be to get a query of all Ticket.title vs. the first line (i.e. up to ".") of Ticket.description?
[10:47] <stub> first line != up to ".". But not hard.
[10:47] <stub> You want up to \n or up to . ?
[10:48] <bradb> up to ".", if possible
[10:48] <bradb> I should have said first sentence.
[10:49] <stub> ok.
[10:49] <stub> Gimme a tick
[10:49] <lifeless> . turns up in abbreviations ;)
[10:49] <bradb> stub: no prob, thanks
[10:59] <stub> bradb: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileVl8aBh.html
[10:59] <stub> bradb: That ok for your needs or do you need it csv or something?
[11:00] <bradb> stub: that's great, thanks!
[11:14] <SteveA> jamesh: ping
[11:14] <jamesh> SteveA: pong
[11:24] <jamesh> bradb: btw, you have a branch that has been sitting as merge-conditional for 48 days (bradb/launchpad/malone-smallfixes).  Is there anything holding up merging it?
[11:29] <bradb> jamesh: Some potentially controversial changes to filebug pages. I'll try to merge it as soon as I get coding time again.
[11:29] <jamesh> okay.  Just checking to see if it had been forgotten
[12:06] <salgado> anybody up for some quick code review?
[12:19] <ddaa> lifeless: ping
[12:19] <ddaa> lifeless: please run reconcile on vostok, kthxbye
[12:23] <lifeless> ddaa: its in my todo, thanks.
[12:25] <carlos> I'm going to increase the timeout value for staging. It will be restored tomorrow
[12:25] <carlos> I need it to debug a problem there
[12:34] <carlos> see you later!
[12:35] <lifeless> stub: are you around ?
[12:35] <stub> lifeless: yes
[12:36] <lifeless> I just maied you about rolling out dyson
[12:36] <lifeless> I thought I would prod you incase your mai was not open ;)
[12:49] <lifeless> ddaa: around ?
[12:49] <ddaa> yup
[12:49] <ddaa> reading BranchRevision stuff right now
[12:50] <ddaa> lifeless: that's what you wanted to talk to me about, right?
[12:50] <lifeless> the +source page requires that cvs/svn details are put in.
[12:50] <lifeless> this seems buggy to me, as some products release wihtout any cvs/svn repository.
[12:50] <ddaa> the +source page is broken on so many levels it's not funny
[12:50] <lifeless> so I'd like us to put back in place the 'no vcs' option that was there before.
[12:51] <ddaa> I thought it was still there
[12:51] <lifeless> nope.
[12:51] <ddaa> ...
[12:52] <lifeless> also, do you know who has privilege to change the ftp details in +source (without changing the cvs/svn details)
[12:53] <ddaa> no clue, I'd bet nobody
[12:53] <ddaa> this page is just plain broken
[12:53] <ddaa> nothing it does makes sense
[12:54] <lifeless> I think that is overly harsh.
[12:54] <lifeless> do you think the release-tarball-pattern details belong on the same page as SVN details ?
[12:55] <ddaa> IMO SVN details and the like do not belong in product series to start with
[12:55] <ddaa> but release-tarball stuff does, since it's about the release series
[12:55] <lifeless> I'm avoiding that discussion right now. It is a diversion from the discussion I want to have.
[12:56] <ddaa> It's the only honest reply I have to answer your question.
[12:56] <ddaa> Since SVN/CVS stuff should not be in product series, and tarball details is definitely a product series thing, they should not be on the same page.
[12:56] <ddaa> However, as long as they are both in product series, it might make sense to keep them on the same page for convenience
[12:58] <lifeless> well the problem is
[12:58] <lifeless> that once the CVS/SVN is certified as 'good', they cannot edit the tarball release details anymore
[12:59] <lifeless> we can either make the check for permission more fine grained - check fields on that form, or split it out to a separate form.
[01:00] <lifeless> I'll draft a spec, get you and mpt and keybuk to eyeball it.
[01:00] <ddaa> I'd rather have it in a separate form, as it's heading in the direction of separating vcs-imports from product series
[01:00] <lifeless> its not about that, really.
[01:00] <lifeless> but as we agree on different form, thats fine.
[01:01] <ddaa> I understand it, but it's still heading in the right direction, regardless of the motivation
[01:01] <lifeless> food time, tchau
[01:01] <ddaa> what about source package association?
[01:01] <lifeless> I dont know what that means
[01:01] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/46240
[01:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46240 in launchpad-bazaar "posting $series/+source yields a confusing warning" [High,Confirmed]
[01:02] <lifeless> do you mean 'http://launchpad.dev/products/test/trunk/+ubuntupkg'
[01:02] <ddaa> about everybody that tries to set up a vcs import gets this warning, and  believe that the vcs details were not recorded
[01:03] <ddaa> I have no opinion on whether the source package form should be separate from the release tarball form, but it should definitely be separate from the vcs import form.
[01:06] <lifeless> I think there is already a separate form is my point
[01:06] <lifeless> you will need to look at the view class and template, but I think that +ubuntupkg and the source package field on the +source form are functionally equivalent.
[01:07] <ddaa> lifeless: I would like if you could get somebody to look at it
[01:08] <yvesC> Hi
[01:08] <yvesC> which package is supposed contains tuxpaint locale for french ?
[01:09] <ddaa> I can and will look at things like complete-branch-revision, but anything else that's a distraction  from fixing vcs imports is out of scope for me until I can tell sabdfl I'm happy with how svn imports are doing.
[03:35] <lifeless> dda1: so what do you think of complete-branch-revision
[04:30] <dda1> lifeless: generally, I'm okay with it. I had some discussion monday with Kinnison about the caveats and how client code (soyuz) need to deal with revisions going away from branches.
[04:31] <dda1> s/monday/sunday/
[04:32] <lifeless> right. soyuz wont link to BranchRevision, I have a todo to update the record branch revision sec to reflect this change.
[04:32] <lifeless> BranchRevision will become just a cache
[04:33] <dda1> I think the use case here is to record a revision and be able to tell which branch this revision can be retrieved from.
[04:34] <ddaa> recording the revision can be done either by a foreign key to Revision.id or by a textual revision_id
[04:34] <lifeless> not really
[04:35] <lifeless> there are several different use cases.
[04:35] <lifeless> for instance, one record branch revision use case is to allow connecting the dots between source packages and products.
[04:35] <ddaa> the big caveat is that we cannot guarantee that a revision that was in the ancestry of a branch at a time will always be.
[04:35] <lifeless> I know
[04:36] <SteveA> sabdf1: reply to review sent.  r=me
[04:36] <ddaa> lifeless: I thought you knew, but Kinnison wanted to be sure that you were reminded :)
[04:40] <ddaa> "connecting the dots between source packages and products", that does not appear to require complete-branch-revision in realistic non-ambiguous cases. Having the full graph would be useful for best-effort in finding the "closest" (FSVO) relative of a branch, but that may be more that we what we would need.
[04:40] <ddaa> I mean, finding the closest relative for ambiguous use cases.
[04:40] <ddaa> s/use case/scenario/
[04:40] <lifeless> I gave you a single use case.
[04:41] <ddaa> forgive my confused terminology, my workplace is not as quiet as it is usually
[04:41] <lifeless> particularly, I gave you one that is also relevant for the record-source-package-release-branch=-reversion spec
[04:41] <ddaa> ?
[04:41] <lifeless> but there are a number of operations we have planned to do in the past like:
[04:41] <ddaa> ETOOMANYDASHES
[04:42] <lifeless>  * where has this revision been merged?
[04:42] <lifeless>  * which of these [set]  of branches is the one with the most recent code?
[04:42] <lifeless>  * can I have a pony?
[04:43] <lifeless> that all need different queries through the graph : so having the graph cheaply available for a branch or set of branches, and the reverse graph too, is important.
[04:43] <elmo> lifeless: no
[04:43] <ddaa> lifeless: okay, I already have one for tomlord on my shopping list, should I add you as well?
[04:43] <lifeless> elmo: ?
[04:43] <elmo> lifeless: you can't have a pony
[04:43] <lifeless> elmo: why would you say no to me!
[04:43] <elmo> lifeless: to make you cry?
[04:43] <lifeless> I'm nice. And I'm no longer SOOO fat that I would break its back
[04:44] <ddaa> what do you mean by "reverse graph"?
[04:44] <ddaa> lifeless: we gotta play some mao in Vilnius with a pony rule
[04:45] <lifeless> ddaa: the relationship of revisions to branches, rather than branches to revisions.
[04:46] <ddaa> lifeless: generally, i think that "get all revisions in the ancestry of a branch" and "get all branches that have a revision in their ancestry" is useful for a variety of nice bling.
[04:46] <ddaa> I voiced my specific performance concerns on the mailing list.
[04:47] <lifeless> right, which I think is already addressed.
[04:47] <lifeless> AIUI it the constraint will be fine.
[04:47] <lifeless> and I've already discussed performance with stub
[04:47] <ddaa> the performance of the specific query I gave is important
[04:48] <lifeless> well, create a table with 1 billion rows and test it :)
[04:48] <ddaa> as pages that give detailed branch listing are already soft-timing-out sometimes.
[04:48] <lifeless> what is the detailed branch listing page - do you have a sample url ?
[04:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+branchlisting
[04:49] <ddaa> the issue is generating the "1704 revisions, 0 in the past month." bits
[04:49] <lifeless> you do that through two queries right ?
[04:49] <ddaa> ATM two queries per branch
[04:50] <ddaa> the query in the post would allow doing one query for the whole page
[04:50] <lifeless> right
[04:50] <ddaa> it still needs to be reasonably cheap
[04:51] <ddaa> it might be possible that indexes can prevent non-mainline revisions from slowing it down
[04:51] <ddaa> I just do not know
[04:51] <sabdf1> SteveA: thanks, will land when i get back from dublin, it's fine for this to roll out next week
[04:51] <ddaa> The alternative is putting caches in Branch, that are updated by the branch-scanner or another script, but that's increased complexity in code not directly related to display that I would rather avoid
[04:52] <lifeless> ddaa: the ratio is typically 3:1
[04:52] <lifeless> ddaa: i.e. under an order of magnitude - if we are going to have a problem, we'll have it anyway.
[04:52] <ddaa> anyhomw
[04:53] <carlos> salgado: please, could you ping kiko?
[04:53] <ddaa> I'm happy with that spec, esp. since you said that the branch scanner optimisation patch is already in the pipej
[04:53] <carlos> salgado: I need to talk with him about a change he did
[04:54] <carlos> hmm salgado: or at least ask him to read his email tonight, I think he did a change that would kill our performance on production
[04:56] <ddaa> there would still be a hole with ghost filling, but it's not a big issue, and there would be ways to deal with it (e.g. compare size of ghost-unaware ancestry with what the db says once a day)
[04:57] <lifeless> steve and I have been talking about he branch scanner somewhat too
[04:57] <ddaa> mh
[04:57] <ddaa> just thought of an interesting corner case
[04:57] <lifeless> it should be possible to generate a very fast scanner - I'm doing a spec up for consideration now
[04:58] <ddaa> the database can know more of the ancestry than the branch
[04:58] <lifeless> sure
[05:00] <ddaa> so it might be useful to have branchrevision actually tell that a branch actually has revisions in its ancestry, although they are ghosts. In particular when there will be branch horizon (which expect to happen eventually).
[05:00] <lifeless> Lets not preengineer that
[05:00] <ddaa> sure
[05:00] <lifeless> we can add that later at minimal cost.
[05:01] <ddaa> We just need to make sure ATM that the branch scanner can deal with revisions turning into ghosts
[05:01] <ddaa> so we can guarantee branchrevision tells us that a revision _can_ be checked out from a branch
[05:02] <ddaa> and not break referential integrity when revisions start turning into ghosts
[05:04] <SteveA> lifeless: ready for that talk whenever
[05:17] <salgado> carlos, pinging him now
[05:17] <carlos> salgado: I sent the email already
[05:17] <carlos> so is enough if he's able to read it today
[05:18] <carlos> salgado: but thanks
[05:39] <kiko> hey carlos
[05:39] <kiko> go ahead, that was crazy.
[05:43] <carlos> kiko: hi
[05:43] <carlos> yeah, I saw your answer
[05:43] <kiko> cool
[05:43] <carlos> kiko: do you think we have any way to do 'make check' on staging to detect this kind of performance problems?
[05:44] <kiko> well
[05:44] <kiko> we could measure times it took to render certain pages
[05:44] <kiko> and then look at that over time.
[05:44] <kiko> I assume there's something that does that already though...
[05:45] <carlos> yeah, but that will not prevent this kind of changes to land on production...
[05:45] <carlos> we lack the QA part on staging
[05:45] <carlos> because I think that change was scheduled to land today
[05:46] <kiko> carlos, was it going to land today?
[05:46] <kiko> and didn't it?
[05:47] <carlos> kiko: I'm not completely sure, but it landed before friday night and stub has been rolling out all changes until friday night
[05:47] <carlos> kiko: the rollout was cancelled
[05:47] <kiko> ah. really? why?
[05:47] <carlos> stub had some problems
[05:48] <carlos> I think with the virtual hosting thing
[05:48] <carlos> from Stub's words
[05:48] <SteveA> yeah, missing config item for production
[05:48] <carlos> Due to bugs in the recent publisher updates that cause Launchpad to just
[05:48] <carlos> return 500 errors
[05:48] <kiko> I see.
[05:49] <kiko> well, land the reversal and then notify stub of it.
[05:49] <carlos> ok
[05:49] <kiko> great that you caught it on staging
[05:49] <SteveA> combined with an early version of the vhosting code
[05:49] <SteveA> that doesn't cope well with that
[05:53] <carlos> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileL85TI6.html
[05:53] <carlos> kiko: r=kiko ?
[05:55] <kiko> carlos, yeah. though I would say in the comment that a) ret could have many results and b) the batching system will slice the results afterwards
[05:55] <kiko> anyway, r=kiko
[05:55] <carlos> kiko: hmm I tried to note that already ;-)
[05:55] <carlos> but I guess if you request it I didn't clarify it enough
[06:01] <Ro1> hi all
[06:01] <kiko> carlos, it's fine, don't worry.
[06:01] <carlos> ok
[06:14] <lifeless> kiko - how does launhcpad make sure that security bugs are not visible to other people than the security contact?
[06:14] <lifeless> kiko: or does it let it be visible, but hide access to the contents ?
[06:14] <kiko> lifeless, private bugs are only visible to subscribers.
[06:14] <kiko> that's the principle
[06:14] <kiko> security contacts are subscribed to new security bugs
[06:15] <kiko> that's how they can see them
[06:15] <lifeless> ok. *how*
[06:15] <kiko> sorry?
[06:15] <lifeless> what words do I use to talk about this bit of zope machinery?
[06:15] <kiko> oh.
[06:15] <kiko> security.py mostly
[06:16] <kiko> it defines who can see a bug
[06:16] <kiko> combined with the zcml.
[06:16] <lifeless> and this magically applies to stuff returned from sqlobject?
[06:16] <lifeless> or only at the gap between content and view class ?
[06:16] <kiko> the latter.
[06:17] <lifeless> so e.g. the view class needs to strip out returned elements from a list that are not meant to be visible, or it will get prmission errors ?
[06:18] <kiko> BugTaskSet.search() only returns visible items.
[06:18] <lifeless> ok.
[06:18] <kiko> so the answer is yes
[06:18] <kiko> if you query and get back an item that you are not supposed to display and try to display it
[06:18] <lifeless> and if it returned incorrect things by mistake the worst possible condition is 'PermissionDenied'
[06:18] <kiko> it will die
[06:18] <lifeless> cool.
[06:18] <lifeless> thanks
[06:18] <kiko> right.
[06:18] <kiko> exactly.
[06:19] <lifeless> I'm working up a related spec
[06:19] <lifeless> and wanted to know enough to get myself into trouble.
[06:19] <kiko> sure
[06:20] <lifeless> so AuthorizationBase is subclassed, and the usedfor field gives the permission instance a context to find out data from, and a user requesting access
[06:20] <kiko> yep
[06:21] <lifeless> thanks, you have been a great help.
[06:21] <lifeless> probably will still be a bit sketchy as I haven't checked the zcml side of it yet
[06:21] <kiko> with zcml
[06:21] <kiko> you define what attributes are visible/editable with what permissions.
[06:21] <kiko> that's generally it
[06:21] <kiko> see bug.zcml for details
[06:23] <lifeless> the <!-- Bug --> bit ?
[06:34] <kiko> lifeless, the attributes and set_attributes bits on the bug context object.
[06:36] <lifeless> thanks
[06:39] <Kamion> Hello. Is there any way to delete the registration of a bzr branch in Launchpad?
[06:40] <LarstiQ> not without admin help I believe.
[06:41] <Kamion> I was hoping I might be able to work around the fact that I can't convert from an external branch to a hosted branch
[06:41] <Kamion> because I'd like to keep using the 'ubuntu' name for branches representing current Ubuntu packages, but that name's already taken by external branches for many of my packages
[06:42] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/5575 says "the whole system is designed so that branches are easy to rename" but I cannot find how to rename a branch
[06:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5575 in launchpad-bazaar "Do we really have to name our branches in Launchpad?" [High,Confirmed]
[06:43] <ddaa> Kamion: in theory you should be able to do it from the +edit or +admin form
[06:43] <ddaa> not sure if the perms are set right, though
[06:44] <Kamion> +edit doesn't have it
[06:44] <ddaa> bug 5575 is about something else, which I started addressing in a ui branch (that's on PendingReviews) but that I never got the time to finesh.
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5575 in launchpad-bazaar "Do we really have to name our branches in Launchpad?" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5575
[06:44] <Kamion> +admin is forbidden
[06:50] <ddaa> okay, that's a bug
[06:50] <Kamion> ddaa: do you have any idea what my right answer would be here? I'm trying to convert to the distro procedure in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto
[06:50] <carlos> Kamion: +admin is usually reserved for launchpad admins and 'experts' (admins with less rights)
[06:50] <Kamion> ah, ok
[06:50] <ddaa> branch/+admin should be allowed to the branch owner
[06:50] <Kamion> want a bug?
[06:50] <ddaa> admins and experts get the right to fuck with other people branches
[06:50] <carlos> ddaa: who else has access to +edit ?
[06:51] <ddaa> carlos: +edit and +admin for branch should have the same access
[06:51] <ddaa> I think ATM +edit is owner-or-admin
[06:51] <ddaa> but it makes sense to keep them separated, since +admin allows editing things that changes the URL the branch
[06:51] <carlos> what's the point of having two pages for the same people?
[06:52] <carlos> oh, I see
[06:52] <ddaa> and the pages where the branch appear on launchpad, etc
[06:52] <ddaa> it allows moderately antisocial changes
[06:52] <carlos> I'm not completely sure whether is the best option. I think most of launchpad uses +admin for non owner tasks (or at least Rosetta does it)
[06:53] <Kamion> bug 51130
[06:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51130 in launchpad-bazaar "cannot use +admin on a branch I own" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51130
[06:54] <lifeless> ddaa: +admin should be admins only.
[06:54] <lifeless> ddaa: +edit should ahve the functionality the branch owner needs.
[06:55] <ddaa> I'm keen on keeping the features to change the branch owner/product/name separate from the form normally used to change the branch sumary, external URL, etc.
[06:55] <lifeless> ddaa: its a good idea to not give people hints to URLs that they will rarely have access to, and using +admin on branch does that.
[06:55] <lifeless> thats fine, I support that.
[06:55] <ddaa> lifeless: is there another standard name for "form allowed to the owner to change dangerous things?"
[06:56] <ddaa> I'm happy to call it +crocodile if nobody has a problem with that
[06:56] <lifeless> ddaa: the reset of lp does not differentiate this AFAIK
[06:57] <lifeless> salgado: your karmacontext sql needs some comments to pass DBA review - altrting you early
[06:58] <lifeless> salgado: see TranslationUploads for an example
[06:59] <carlos_> see you later
[07:02] <ddaa> actually, I think branch/+spork would be a better name
[07:03] <ddaa> Kamion: in the meantime, you can ask an admin to make the change for you
[07:04] <ddaa> changing the branch name will break nothing
[07:05] <Kamion> hmm, there are a lot of them; is anyone willing to rename ~30 branches for me?
[07:06] <ddaa> Kamion: note that, as a convention, we like vcs-imports to be named the same as their series
[07:07] <Kamion> ok, I don't need to rename any imports though
[07:08] <ddaa> lifeless: can you accomodate Kamion?
[07:15] <salgado> lifeless, thanks for alerting me. we're still working on that
[07:16] <salgado> lifeless, anyway, is it just some comments on the new columns?
[07:53] <lifeless-lithuan> Kamion: what do you need done ?
[08:05] <kiko> lifeless-lithuan, lifeless-lt perhaps?
[08:34] <Keybuk> cprov, Kinnison: I have another example of the uploader failing an upload that should have been approved
[08:34] <Keybuk> do you want it?
[08:34] <cprov> Keybuk: yes, anywhere in chinstrap would be fine
[08:34] <Keybuk> would drescher not be fine? :p
[08:36] <Keybuk> cprov: chinstrap:~scott/upload-20060627-102715-005864/
[08:37] <Keybuk> note that the changes and dsc are both signed by the key that is associated with that user in launchpad
[08:37] <Keybuk> and that he is a member of the right team
[08:37] <crimsun> cprov: / Keybuk: to note, I recently (two days ago) bumped forward the expiration date on that key and reuploaded it to wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net.
[08:38] <cprov> Keybuk: wait, this is all about a previously expired key ?
[08:39] <Keybuk> ah
[08:39] <Keybuk> crimsun: it's not showing up as not-expired for me
[08:40] <Keybuk> or, it's showing up as expired
[08:41] <Keybuk> gpg: requesting key C88ABDA3 from hkp server subkeys.pgp.net
[08:41] <Keybuk> gpg: key C88ABDA3: "Daniel T. Chen (new<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not changed
[08:41] <Keybuk> pub   1024D/C88ABDA3 2003-06-23 [expired: 2006-06-27]
[08:41] <crimsun> so the newer key simply hasn't synced yet
[08:41] <Keybuk> crimsun: hasn't sync'd anywhere yet
[08:41] <Keybuk> cprov: sorry to bother you
[08:42] <cprov> Keybuk: np, anytime
[09:14] <lifeless-lithuan> kiko: lifeless-lt would syggest less than lifeless
[09:59] <cntb> hi anyone?
[10:30] <kbrooks> Is there a bug open related to the CoC?
[10:34] <matsubara> kbrooks: could you be more specific?
[10:34] <kbrooks> never mind/
[11:36] <cguima> boa noite
[11:38] <cguima> algum me pode dar uma informao?
[11:40] <matsubara> cguima: sim eu posso, mas este  um canal em ingls.
[11:40] <cguima> devo ento escrever em ingls?
[11:41] <matsubara> cguima:  melhor. voc tem mais chances de ter sua pergunta respondida
[11:42] <cguima> obrigada
[11:42] <cguima> my problem is with the wireless
[11:43] <cguima> i want to work with linux
[11:43] <cguima> but i  can't work with my wireless device
[11:44] <matsubara> cguima: try asking on #ubuntu or #ubuntu-br
[11:44] <cguima> do you know where to find drivers
[11:44] <cguima> ok, thanks


[12:39] <kc2bez[m]> https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/releases/tag/1.2.0
 :D
 Perfect
[16:09] <tsimonq2> Good morning everyone :)
[16:09] <tsimonq2> I'm on my way to the Ubuntu Summit
[16:12] <kc2bez[m]> That is fantastic Simon Quigley
[16:14] <tsimonq2> ...part of me didn't think I'd ever get this far :D I'm so excited. I've only met a half a dozen or less Canonical employees in my life, ever. Thanks again to the LC for choosing me to represent us in this opportunity :)
 "https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/..." <- This is AMAZING timing because all of my time until the 10th is dedicated to Ubuntu and Lubuntu :)
[16:16] <tsimonq2> And I can go nag for acceptance in person :P
[16:17] <kc2bez[m]> tsimonq2: I am excited for you! I am happy to have helped even if my role was super tiny in that.
[16:36] <tsimonq2> Thanks :)
[16:36] <tsimonq2> You guys are welcome to tag along! I know this was a quicker request, but if we get invited again in the future, let's do more than me ;)
[16:38] <kc2bez[m]> I hope to at some point. It just didn't work well for my schedule.
[16:38] <tsimonq2> I'm going to board now - I'll be working on Qt to start but let me know if we need anything
[16:38] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: All good
 Have a good trip @tsimonq2 and enjoy the summit!
 Forwarded from dalto8: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/pull/2069
[18:53] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Pull 2069 in calamares/calamares "[grubcfg] Fix bugs and add option to force defaults to update existing values" [Open]
 Thank you!! (re @Leokolb: Have a good trip @tsimonq2 and enjoy the summit!)
[21:08] <ItzSwirlz> ooh! new lxqt tag!
[21:08] <tsimonq2> :D
[21:09] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: in case he starts asking questions ^^^^^ I forwarded him here because he has to do what we just did with the seed
[22:46] <kgiii> Have fun and make great connections at the Summit! I've been to all sorts of conferences and conventions in my life and the connections you make are as valuable as the material  you learn.


[01:41] <darthanubis> bug 1271282
[10:28] <l3on> about gnome3 ... is there some script help me to set dark theme for gtk2 app (such as terminator) ?
[10:30] <l3on> I'm playing with ' xprop -f _GTK_THEME_VARIANT 8u -set _GTK_THEME_VARIANT "dark"  '
[10:31] <l3on> but I would like to select windows according with /usr/bin/path_bin
[11:16] <ricotz> l3on, i expect you are using the staging/utopic packages now! ;)
[11:17] <l3on> ricotz: a mix of... I didn't not run a dist-upgrade, just picked only some packages and gtk
[11:18] <l3on> I'm the only one with gnome-shell crashes ?
[11:20] <ricotz> ok, which packages are conflicting? if you cherry-pick things it is hard to say what it causing it
[11:20] <ricotz> gnome-shell git runs fine
[11:21] <l3on> right now I have these pacakges installed http://paste.ubuntu.com/8379198/
[11:22] <l3on> trying to update gdm, let see what happens
[11:24] <ricotz> as said you better commit to the whole things rather than just bits, the internal dependencies are not hardened enough to catch interoperability issues
[11:24] <ricotz> i assume you use gnome3-staging only?
[11:25] <ricotz> (which is fine)
[11:28] <l3on> ricotz, yep.. gnome3 packages come only from -staging
[11:28] <l3on> ok, let's do a dist-upgrade
[11:28] <ricotz> l3on, use upgrade!
[11:28] <l3on> no dist-upgrade ?
[11:28] <l3on> why??
[11:29] <ricotz> you dont really want to things autoremove do you?
[11:29] <ricotz> if upgrade works without complains then use that
[11:29] <ricotz> "upgrade"
[11:30] <ricotz> the libmutter0e transitions is already done
[11:32] <l3on> sometimes this error occurs http://paste.ubuntu.com/8379262/
[11:33] <ricotz> should be fine as long the loaders.cache is there in the end
[11:38] <l3on> ok, upgrade successfully and rebooted .. everything is fine.
[11:39] <l3on> I guess yesterday -staging repo was in a inconsistent state
[11:39] <l3on> that's why I got shell crashing
[11:39] <ricotz> good
[11:41] <l3on> awesome, thanks ricotz :)
[11:41] <l3on> let's see this polari now :)
[12:26] <l3on> empathy e gnome-terminal have problem here
[12:26] <l3on> empathy Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[12:27] <l3on> gnome-terminal: Error creating terminal: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)
[12:32]  * ricotz takes a look
[12:47] <ricotz> l3on, those should be fixed shortly, feel free to report more of such issues
[12:48] <l3on> ricotz, they just need a rebuild ?
[12:48] <ricotz> i am running a more relaxed gtk version here which isnt so strict with ui-file errors
[12:48] <ricotz> no, those real bugs
[12:52] <l3on> ah ok.. sure!
[12:52] <ricotz> gnome-terminal is suppose to be fixed
[12:52] <ricotz> ..now
[12:54] <l3on> ricotz, sure, it is! :)
[13:31] <ricotz> l3on, empathy should work again too
[13:42] <l3on> ricotz, confirmed :) .. empathy works again
[13:52] <l3on> ricotz: if you interested ... also gnome-weather gives problems
[13:52] <l3on> (org.gnome.Weather.Application:9110): Gjs-CRITICAL **: Attempting to call back into JSAPI during the sweeping phase of GC. This is most likely caused by not destroying a Clutter actor or Gtk+ widget with ::destroy signals connected, but can also be caused by using the destroy() or dispose() vfuncs. Because it would crash the application, it has been blocked and the JS callback not invoked.
[13:54] <LinDol> hi all
[14:15] <l3on> and find a workaround for the xprop and terminator
[14:15] <l3on> :)
[14:15] <l3on> awesome
[14:17] <ricotz> l3on, hmm interesting, this sounds even like a problem in vanilla utopic
[14:19] <ricotz> darkxst, ^ gnome-weather
[20:48] <Noskcaj> ricotz, should the gnome3-staging ppa include all the upower 0.99 stuff so it doesn't break other things the user may have?
[21:01] <ricotz> Noskcaj, hmm, i dont think so if it isnt part of "ubuntu-gnome", which packages do you have in mind?
[21:03] <Noskcaj> I'd been hoping all of them, or at least reccomend that the user installs the upower ppa. gnome-shell-pomodoro should be in the staging ppa though
[21:07] <ricotz> Noskcaj, i get your point, but this ppa targets gnome3-only (gnome-shell) users so there is no need to support cinnamon/xfce/unity
[21:08] <Noskcaj> Makes sense. Could you copy gnome-shell-pomodoro from my ppa?
[21:08] <Noskcaj> And maybe just mention that it will break other DEs without ppa:noskcaj/upower
[21:09] <ricotz> ok, will push a no-change rebuild of it
[21:09] <Noskcaj> ty
[21:09] <ricotz> using "0.10.2-5upower1" is not a good idea
[21:10] <Noskcaj> What should it be instead?
[21:10] <ricotz> something which isnt greater than 0.10.2-5ubuntuX
[21:11] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll make it ppa1 in future
[21:12] <ricotz> use something like "0.10.2-5+upower1"
[21:12] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:17] <ricotz> Noskcaj, any reason why gnome-applets isnt in your ppa?
[21:19] <Noskcaj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1330037/comments/13
[21:19] <Noskcaj> nvm, i hadn't seen darkxst's comment
[21:19] <Noskcaj> i'll fix that now
[21:33] <ricotz> Noskcaj, ignore the build-failure like i do, since this useless anyway when gnome-shell get updated
[21:34] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:40] <Noskcaj> ricotz, How should i go about updating stuff in the staging ppa?
[21:44] <ricotz> Noskcaj, say what you like to update and i cross them off my list
[21:45] <Noskcaj> I was going to do anjuta
[21:46] <ricotz> alright
[21:50] <Noskcaj> Should i just put it in my staging ppa and you copy it across?
[21:51] <ricotz> maybe even do it in debian since it is a sync?
[21:51] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:58] <Raven-6> I'm on Ubuntu Gnome 14.04, how do I prevent the screen from shutting off on the login screen? The power options are all set to always on
[21:58] <Noskcaj> actually, i can never get stuff sponsored in debian, let alone stuff in exp. I'll go and find something else to do
[22:03] <Noskcaj> Raven-6, I'm not really sure what you mean
[22:04] <Raven-6> Noskcaj in the gnome greeter, the screen times out
[22:11] <ricotz> Noskcaj, maybe gnome-weather?
[22:14] <ricotz> have fun
[22:15] <Noskcaj> i'll try
[22:47] <Noskcaj> Done in https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/build/+packages , i'm going to see if tests can be enabled now
[22:56] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you probably need to use xvfb-run for the tests
[22:56] <Noskcaj> How do i do that?
[22:56] <darkxst> use dh_override_auto_test
[22:57] <darkxst> then something like `xvfb-run -a make -C tests check`
[22:57] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:58] <Noskcaj> with the ` ?
[22:58] <darkxst> no just the bit in between those!
[22:59] <Noskcaj> ok, just checking
[23:14] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you forgot to add build-deps!
[23:21] <dark-yux1> Are you going to add gnome videos for gnome 3.12?
[23:23] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Just xvfb dep?
[23:28] <darkxst>  might also need dbus-x11 (if the tests needs dbus)


[09:29] <sgmoore> Good morning
[09:39] <RikMills> morning
[10:13] <sgmoore> So the QA link sends me to http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ which is up for sale. Can someone point me to our QA/CI if it exists? :)
[10:15] <sgmoore> Also it looks like we are on phabricator for management, that is going away soon. We need to organize elsewhere.
[10:15] <RikMills> sgmoore: the QA site is gone. but the ppa-build-status script can be run locally
[10:16] <RikMills> CI is also gone, as no one knew the tooling
[10:16] <sgmoore> oof ok
[10:17] <RikMills> we started to look at a new one a couple of times, but didn't really happen
[10:18] <sgmoore> no worries, just trying to sort out where we are, will get us back into shape :)
[10:18] <RikMills> that is the idea :)
 Since that point, I learned a bit of Ruby ;)
 Optimism++
[13:14] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:44] <sgmoore> Hello
[13:50] <ahoneybun> heyo BluesKaj and sgmoore
[13:52]  * sgmoore waves at ahoneybun
[13:53] <BluesKaj> hey ahoneybun, sgmoore
[13:55]  * ahoneybun waves back at sgmoore
 Please all read: https://lists.launchpad.net/kubuntu-council/msg01142.html
 I did so enough to make simple hacks, but sitters tooling was too much for me to update for ever (re @tsimonq2: Since that point, I learned a bit of Ruby ;))
[20:18] <sgmoore> G'night folks, see you tomorrow
[22:11] <valorie> hmmm, cannot access http://www.ricktimmis.com/
[22:11] <valorie> am I alone in that?
[22:24] <mparillo> Neither HTTP nor HTTPs worked for me.


[14:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, is didrocks in today?
[14:36] <seb128> robert_ancell, yes
[14:36] <seb128> robert_ancell, what about you?
[14:36] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure am
[14:36] <seb128> robert_ancell, he was to the quickly one for the first hour, not sure where he is now
[14:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, np, I'll catch him later
[14:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, have you seen mvo?
[14:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, no
[14:38] <seb128> ok
[15:37] <jasoncwarner_> jbicha: I still don't have your email. can you dm me the blueprint?
[15:37]  * jasoncwarner_ grumbles about the the reliability of the internet.


[14:21] <Cheri703> Anyone have a RAID setup they use with any regularity?
[14:21] <Cheri703> I'm contemplating the idea
[15:21] <thafreak> i do
[15:21] <thafreak> i have several
[15:22] <thafreak> but more disks mean more potential for failure actually
[15:23] <thafreak> since having 3-4 times the number of disks spinning 24/7, I've seen a major increase in the number of failing hard drives at my house...
[15:23] <thafreak> :/
[15:23] <thafreak> like my newest raid 10 array, i just happened to peak in the dmesg, I saw sata errors on one of the disks
[15:24] <thafreak> but no errors from MD/raid layer...and no smart errors yet
[15:24] <thafreak> so, I have no idea what happened there
[15:24] <thafreak> probably me using non-raid compatible drives
[15:24] <thafreak> there might be some weight to the disk manufacturer's argument that you should use raid compatible disks
[15:25] <thafreak> i.e. WD RE4 or Red drives, or seagate ES2 drives
[15:25] <thafreak> not sure if there are any drive manufacturers left out there besides WD and seagate...
[15:25] <thafreak> well, who's cheapest drives aren't $500
[15:27] <thafreak> that's my 2 cents anyway
[15:28] <thafreak> I would try the WD Red drives...not because I have any experience with them mind you, but there really isn't much to choose from anyway
[15:28] <thafreak> the Red drives are supposed to be geard for home NAS, and therefore combine the benefits of the Green drives with some of the features of the RE4 enterprise raid drives
[15:29] <thafreak> at a cost closer to the green drives
[15:30] <thafreak> I used to be very pro-seagate, but I just recently had 3 out of 4 high end enterprise class (read expensive) seagate drives die after maybe 3 1/2 years
[15:30] <thafreak> i expect cheap desktop drives to have that kind of lifespan, not the ones you pay almost double for...
[15:30] <thafreak> ok, sorry...</rant>
[16:26] <dzho> no no, let the ranting flow
[18:39] <paultag> http://www.theonion.com/articles/fucker-riding-mans-ass-whole-way-out-to-cleveland,6860/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post%3Asection%3Adefault NSFW
[18:39] <paultag> but awesome
[20:27] <thafreak> anyone ever buy a case like this:
[20:27] <thafreak> http://www.amazon.com/Nanuk-Case-Cubed-Foam-Olive/dp/B003JH7ZLS/ref=sr_1_41_m?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350073547&sr=1-41
[20:28] <thafreak> I'm considering getting one for transporting hard drives
[20:28] <thafreak> using either bare sata drives, or external usb drives as backup media
[20:28] <thafreak> instead of tapes


[08:32] <rbasak> smb: http://dpdk.org/ml/archives/dev/2015-September/023183.html
[13:24] <megagigawatt> Hi there, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a samba/acl issue i am having please, I have made a post on the forums here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2294351 which is probably easier to understand than me trying to type it out here, thanks in advance
[13:45] <funkenstrahlen> Hey, I need some help setting up unattended upgrades on my ubuntu server. I installed and configured it, but it does not get run automatically somehow...
[13:45] <funkenstrahlen> I used this infopage to set it up https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates
[13:45] <teward> funkenstrahlen: what makes you say it's not run?
[13:48] <funkenstrahlen> teward: I checked back after 14 days. could not find any logs in /var/log/unattended-upgrades. Then I ran apt-get upgrade manually. some updates where found. so I ran unattended upgrades manually and a log was created.
[13:48] <funkenstrahlen> teward: So this is evidence for me it did not run at all
[13:49] <funkenstrahlen> my apt.conf.d looks like this: https://gist.github.com/funkenstrahlen/2153d78dc2a786bb9c4d
[13:49] <funkenstrahlen> so periodica intervald of each day is set
[13:50] <funkenstrahlen> I *think* I might now the problem, but do not know enough about how unattended upgrades work
[13:50] <funkenstrahlen> I found a script in /etc/cron.daily/apt.disabled
[13:51] <teward> funkenstrahlen: OS?
[13:51] <funkenstrahlen> I assume that by default this apt script runs the unattended upgrades?
[13:51] <teward> or rather the version
[13:51] <funkenstrahlen> teward: ubuntu server 14.04 lts
[13:52] <funkenstrahlen> I thought maybe the *.disabled blocks it from getting run?
[13:52] <funkenstrahlen> but why is it .disabled? there is no word of that in any tutorials
[13:53] <funkenstrahlen> and because it works fine when I run unattended upgrades manually, I do not think there is a config file error. Its just not getting called at all
[13:53] <prudentmav> any thoughts on the use of serverpilot? If any of you use it
[13:59] <funkenstrahlen> teward: still there? any idea?
[14:00] <dft> prudentmav: never used it but it looks interesting.
[14:01] <thebwt> funkenstrahlen: unattended upgrades doesn't just run apt-get upgrade on a cron
[14:02] <prudentmav> dft I used it on a development environment and it did save a lot of time but just hesitant to use in a production environment
[14:02] <thebwt> it picks specific package types
[14:04] <funkenstrahlen> thebwt: yes I know. still I would like to know why my unattednded upgrades does not get run daily
[14:05] <dft> prudentmav: I hear you.  If serverpilot goes away, what will take to unplug your VPS's from it and take manual control of your wp sites
[14:05] <prudentmav> yeah that is the big unanswered question for me
[14:06] <dft> I think I would rather
[14:06] <dft> ack
[14:07] <dft> typing spasm
[14:07] <dft> rather use aws and bootstrapping if I was in the business of building wp sites for all sorts of clients.
[14:10] <dft> I think I would rather roll my own wp/vps builder using AWS's api.
[14:14] <prudentmav> I use digitalocean and just tired of sysadmin tasks... I'd rather stick to app and front end dev work
[14:39] <siebjee-> Hi Guys, I'm running ubuntu server 15.10 with <IP_ADDRESS>-generic kernel. And updated to 4.2.0-7generic. But it has not been live updated. I thought this was new in 4.0 kernel ? Any info on this ?
[14:39] <jpds> siebjee-: I imagine the tooling with apt isn't yet in place
[14:39] <siebjee-> jpds: is there a way to force this anyway ?
[14:40] <siebjee-> I'd realy like to see this happening! *_*
[14:40] <jpds> (Also, I don't think it's a good idea to run a non-LTS release on a server)
[14:40] <siebjee-> Its my private server, so don't really care about LTS on there or not :)
[14:40] <siebjee-> On production servers i would care about LTS
[14:40] <Seveas> siebjee-: there is no such thing as live kernel updates.
[14:41] <siebjee-> On arch it is possible to update the kernel without down-time
[14:53] <revolve> is there any way of getting dlm-pcmk on 12.04?
[14:55] <rbasak> frediz: from #ubuntu-devel:
[14:55] <rbasak> 15:54 <stgraber> rbasak: I'm happy with ginger, for kimchi, you're missing a debian/copyright entry for  ui/pages/help/gen-index.py which is LGPLv2.1+ and not Apache2 as debian/copyright declares
[14:56] <jpds> rbasak: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/amd64/dlm-pcmk
[14:57] <rbasak> jpds: ?
[14:57] <jpds> rbasak: Err, that was for revolve.
[14:57] <rbasak> np
[14:58] <revolve> jpds: right, I'm on trusty though
[14:58] <revolve> can I get those sources?
[14:59] <jpds> revolve: You said 12.04
[14:59] <revolve> right
[14:59] <revolve> ah 14.04 sorry
[18:32] <RevertToType> so... it's definitely something related to the dhcp lease...
[18:32] <RevertToType> seems client side not server side
[18:32] <RevertToType> after about 30 minutes it drops.... running dhclient in terminal kicks it back in (don't even need to release the old lease...)
[18:33] <RevertToType> using dhcpcd as the daemon didn't resolve it... dhclient is back on but no clue why it keeps dropping
[18:37] <Slugs_> would you recommend hardware or software RAID?
[18:43] <RoyK> Slugs_: I'd recommend sw raid
[18:43] <RoyK> Slugs_: but it all depends the use of it
[18:43] <Slugs_> yeah alot of people are recommending sw
[18:44] <RoyK> Slugs_: hwraid can be fine on the boot medium, since it outrules problems with boot sectors
[18:44] <tonyyarusso> I usually go for SW too, so I don't have to worry about finding a matching controller if it dies.
[18:44] <RoyK> Slugs_: sw raid (or zfs if you're doing the planning well) is what I'd recommend for data
[18:45] <Slugs_> RoyK: zfs not ext4?
[18:45] <RoyK> !zfs
[18:45] <RoyK> Slugs_: zfs is something like mdadm+lvm+checksumming
[18:45] <Slugs_> wow
[18:45] <RoyK> Slugs_: it's very secure, checksumming all over, but it's not very flexible
[18:46] <RoyK> Slugs_: I'm using zfs in production, also on my home server, but I'm planning to go back to mdadm, for various reasons
[18:47] <Slugs_> i see
[18:47] <RoyK> Slugs_: if you have a machine with ECC RAM and you don't want to add new disks to the raidset, use ZFS - otherwise, I'd suggest mdadm raid
[18:47] <Slugs_> well I’m trying to simplly setup 4, 4TB drives in a RAID0 config for performance
[18:48] <jelly> how do you even put "4TB drives" and "performance" into the same sentence
[18:48] <RoyK> Slugs_: just don't do that
[18:49] <jelly> are there 15krpm 4TB drives now?
[18:49] <RoyK> Slugs_: what sort of performance? iops or sequencial?
[18:49] <RoyK> jelly: no
[18:49] <jrwren> no btrfs love?
[18:50] <Slugs_> oh i see, the drives are too big for ‘performance’ im assuming your all saying
[18:50] <RoyK> Slugs_: a single 4TB drive can do something like 200MB/s sequencially, far less with seeks, very far less
[18:50] <RoyK> Slugs_: it all depends on how you look at performance
[18:50] <Slugs_> im trying to write about 80 mbps
[18:50] <Slugs_> constantly
[18:50] <RoyK> Slugs_: 4TB drives spin at 7200rpm, meaning they may do 120iops
[18:51] <patdk-wk> heh, that is a lot of iops for 7.2k rpm
[18:51] <RoyK> Slugs_: a single drive can do that - a raid5 with four drives can certainly do that unless the CPU is something 10+ years old
[18:51] <RoyK> patdk-wk: 'may' do - usually around 80
[18:52] <Slugs_> i thoguht raid0 was better then raid5 since its only stipped
[18:52] <RoyK> Slugs_: striped, not stripped
[18:52] <Slugs_> sorry yes
[18:52] <RoyK> Slugs_: raid5 on 3 drives has about the same speed as raid0 on 4 drives
[18:52] <RoyK> Slugs_: for reads
[18:53] <RoyK> Slugs_: a wee bit less for writes
[18:53] <Slugs_> i need writes more then reads in this setup
[18:53] <Kalimer0> my server hangs during the restart via cron . it fails to shutdown syslog-ng . any ideas?
[18:53] <RoyK> Slugs_: and you'll be a sorry bastard if using raid0 with your data and a drive fucks up, and it will, beleive me on that
[18:53] <RoyK> Slugs_: is the data important?
[18:53] <ikonia> RoyK: come on with the language !
[18:53] <Slugs_> RoyK: understood
[18:54] <RoyK> Slugs_: if the data isn't important, use raid0
[18:54] <RoyK> Slugs_: if you need massive writes and the data is important, use raid1+0
[18:54] <patdk-wk> you mean, if uptime isn't important
[18:54] <RoyK> patdk-wk: or data
[18:54] <patdk-wk> why? backups cover important data, not raid
[18:55] <patdk-wk> raid covers uptime
[18:55] <ikonia> design to your requirements
[18:55] <RoyK> patdk-wk: well, if you have a truckload of writing, backups won't be enough to get the important data if a drive is lost 23 hours after last backup in a raid0 setup
[18:55] <Slugs_> so just to be clear raid 1+0 is good of data *is* important as well
[18:56] <Slugs_> *if*
[18:56] <Slugs_> s/of/if
[18:56] <patdk-wk> that is a backup failure then, backup every 5min, I do
[18:56] <RoyK> Slugs_: with 1+0 you'll get the best of both worlds, good iops and good sequencial i/o, but you'll have to get a lot of drives
[18:57] <Slugs_> 4 not enough/
[18:57] <Slugs_> ?
[18:57] <patdk-wk> some servers I even have on continuous backup, once it's done, it starts again.
[18:58] <RoyK> Slugs_: what are your requirements? what sort of backup do you use? etc?
[18:58] <patdk-wk> raid6 is generally better than raid10 with limited disks
[18:58] <patdk-wk> but it does have iop issues
[18:58] <RoyK> Slugs_: are you on 10Gbps or just gigabit?
[18:58] <patdk-wk> but better for protection
[18:58] <RoyK> patdk-wk: obviously true
[18:58] <Slugs_> RoyK: I don’t care about backing it up, im using 1 gb (network)
[18:58] <patdk-wk> raid10 has the issue if one disk breaks, you depending on the other disk to be fine, normally this is the case, and not an issue
[18:59] <RoyK> Slugs_: what sort of i/o is this? are you just dumping data to this?
[18:59] <Slugs_> yes im wriring multicast video to disk
[19:00] <Slugs_> 80 mpbs
[19:00] <RoyK> then use raid[56]
[19:00] <RoyK> it's good for sequencial stuff
[19:00] <RoyK> 80Mbps is rather a lot
[19:00] <RoyK> use mdraid with a large chunk size and use raid-5 or better raid-6
[19:00] <Slugs_> the bottleneck would be my drives?
[19:01] <Slugs_> 7200 rpm
[19:01] <RoyK> with a large chunk size, the drives should do 100MB/s each
[19:01] <RoyK> or more
[19:01] <Slugs_> and i can configure this with mdraid?
[19:01] <RoyK> man mdadm ;)
[19:01] <Slugs_> ok
[19:02] <Slugs_> RoyK: Thank you for the advice
[19:02] <RoyK> Slugs_: what is this - cctv stuff?
[19:02] <Slugs_> and guidance
[19:02] <Slugs_> no, NPVR
[19:02] <Slugs_> network PVR
[19:02] <Slugs_> for off-air channels
[19:03] <Slugs_> recording live tv
[19:03] <RoyK> same thing, really
[19:03] <Slugs_> sure, just thought you wanted to know ;)
[19:03] <RoyK> Slugs_: just use a large chunk size on that raid
[19:03] <Slugs_> ok
[19:03] <RoyK> Slugs_: and use at least raid-5
[19:03] <Slugs_> ok
[19:03] <Slugs_> Thank you again
[19:04] <RoyK> Slugs_: your boss will hate you if the raid goes down and the data is lost
[19:04] <Slugs_> well i already hate him, so we will be even
[19:04] <RoyK> Slugs_: also, better use a lot of spindles rather than a few large ones
[19:04] <Slugs_> yeah, more drives the better
[19:04] <RoyK> Slugs_: the most important is the chunk size - 1MB minimum
[19:04] <Slugs_> it might even make sense to add more smaller capacity drives
[19:05] <Slugs_> ok
[19:05] <jrwren> how many video streams are you going to record at once?
[19:05] <RoyK> 4MB or 8MB may be practical
[19:06] <Slugs_> im recording 40, 3.5 Mbps streams at once
[19:06] <jrwren> wow! cool. good luck :)
[19:06] <RoyK> Slugs_: and monitor CPU use - it will be used for parity calculation - it should be pretty fast, but at the rate you're mentioning you may need a good CPU (or four)
[19:07] <sarnold> 160 Mbps? not 160MBps?
[19:07] <RoyK> Slugs_: sar/sysstat may be a good friend for long time monitoring, so may munin be
[19:07] <Slugs_> 4 core, Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0 @ 2.40GHz
[19:07] <RoyK> sarnold: 160MBps won't work too well over gigabit ;)
[19:08] <sarnold> RoyK: true :)
[19:09] <RoyK> Slugs_: should do well
[19:09] <RoyK> Slugs_: what is the current cpu usage over the last hour?
[19:09] <Slugs_> im not recording anything...
[19:10] <mtl11> Hi. I'm trying to figure out an issue with unmodified cloud images. If I download and launch a 14.04 cloud image on openstack, when I try to update the kernel or otherwise run update-grub it hangs trying to "modprobe btrfs".  Anyone have any idea why it might be doing that?
[19:10] <RoyK> Slugs_: then install sysstat, enable it, install munin-node and perhaps munin if you don't have a munin installation somewhere and make nice graphs to see how it's behaving
[19:10] <Slugs_> awesome thank you
[19:11] <RoyK> Slugs_: there are several other monitoring systems available, but munin is easy to install, so I'd recommend it if you don't have any experience in monitoring
[19:11] <Slugs_> i don’t so thank you
[19:12] <Slugs_> the more i learn the more i realize i don’t know
[19:12] <RoyK> Slugs_: touché
[19:12] <RoyK> Slugs_: that's philosophy ;)
[19:12] <Slugs_> RoyK: Yes ;)
[19:16] <RevertToType> so still thirty minutes even after changing dhclient.conf to send dhcp-lease-time 600;
[19:20] <RoyK> rbanffy_: did you restart dhclient?
[19:21] <RevertToType> restarting it works but i need it to do that automatically
[19:21] <RevertToType> like i shouldn't even have to do that
[19:22] <sarnold> RevertToType: copy aside your dhclient systemd thingy, apt-get purge dhclient, and try out dhcpcd instead. This has just been too much hassle...
[19:26] <boshhead> Hello, I'm trying to install ubuntu 15.04 server, I have also tried 15.10 server and the system gets stuck after "boot-efi.mount". I've typed up the messages I get on bootup: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12428947/
[19:26] <boshhead> Both 15.04 and 15.10 hang on the same message.
[19:28] <RevertToType> sarnold: i basically did that yesterday and dhcpcd didn't seem that good but i'll do a full reboot and try again :(
[19:28] <sarnold> RevertToType: oh. :(
[19:28] <RevertToType> "virtual packages like 'dhcp-client" can't be removed
[19:29] <RevertToType> oi dpkg
[19:29] <RevertToType> dpkg is saying it's not installed
[19:29] <RevertToType> WUHT
[19:30] <RevertToType> update/upgrade time
[19:31] <sarnold> RevertToType: dpkg -l '*dhc*' may show what's really going on..
[19:32]  * RevertToType nods
[19:32] <sarnold> boshhead: dang that's the worst thing to google for, ever.
[19:32] <boshhead> sarnold: yeah there's no relevant results on google
[19:32] <boshhead> so im in despair :P
[19:34] <boshhead> oh wait.. maybe this is it "It sounds like your initramfs doesn't have the needed module for vfat." - im gonna try adding vfat to /etc/modules if it doesn't exist
[19:35] <boshhead> after that ill try replacing grub with elilo or refit
[19:36] <RevertToType> sarnold: it lists it as unknown for desired action and not-installed
[19:37] <sarnold> boshhead: mkinitramfs(8) suggests /etc/initramfs-tools/modules is the place to put modules
[19:38] <boshhead> sarnold: oh right the other file is generated. thank you.
[19:40] <robertj> so is debootstrap for vivid just...broken?
[19:41] <boshhead> rebooting, which me luck :)
[19:55] <netameta> well, i have jenkins set up, Not insde a container. now i am trying to run a job, the job should clone a repo from github, and then run a bash script. , i am not sure how to tell jenkis where to clone the repo to.
[20:01] <ikonia> try #jenkins ?
[20:01] <netameta> Thanks
[20:30] <RevertToType> this is gonna be the death of me... grabbing a second laptop- out of our bin--- starting from scratch... maybe i just left too much of a mess
[20:32] <dmsimard> jamespage: Sorry to poke you, did you guys notice any issues around python-cryptography/python-cffi on liberty packages with services like nova or keystone ?
[21:13] <jelly> Slugs_: you'll eaither need to mux that back to some 1-4 streams to disk, cheap 4TB sata disks are not very likely to be able to work with 40 parallel writers
[21:14] <jelly> either ^^ or get a drive array that can actually survive more random io
[21:16] <jelly> if they're only writing for archival purposes and never reading, it might be doable
[21:19] <jelly> (and if you want users to also watch those saved streams, you're looking at SSDs or ramdrives, two orders of magnitude more expensive solutions)
[21:20] <ratrace> is Ubuntu (15.04) capable of booting from root on multi-disc btrfs? It requires special btrfs device scan support.
[21:21] <ratrace> I'm talking about mounting root, not actually booting, I know /boot can't be btrfs
[21:28] <netameta> How can i create a new user and assign it ssh key ?
[21:29] <netameta> new user is adduser, but how can i assign it neww ssh keys
[21:30] <OerHeks> netameta, login as that user, and follow the guide ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Keys
[21:31] <netameta> OerHeks, i dont think i can log in with this user
[21:31] <netameta> not before i have ssh keys for it
[21:31] <netameta> ec2 restrict access to only ssh keys
[21:32] <netameta> unless, its possible to create a user from the main user, and then use the new user and follow that guide
[21:32] <OerHeks> netameta, oh, not sure how ec2 works, they should auto make ssh keys when adding an user, logically
[21:33] <netameta> yea i have 1 pair for the main user
[21:33] <netameta> so i can log on their instan
[21:33] <netameta> but i need another user
[21:33] <netameta> Is it possible to create a user and then "mount" it ?


[03:47] <lithpr> does anyone know what i need to do to have default chromium spell check english correctly.  Everytime i type in a textarea every single word is highlighted as a spelling mistake.  I'm awful, but not that awful
[03:58] <kristian-aalborg> lithpr: hi
[03:59] <kristian-aalborg> you probably need to set it to "english somewhere"
[03:59] <kristian-aalborg> "english" somewhere, that is
[04:00] <lithpr> yeah, i've been through chromium preferencesm and i don't see anywhere to set the dictionary
[04:16] <lithpr> spell check working in chrome- good enough for now
[04:24] <T44> btw, is anyone around that ever worked on the lxpanel code? especially the task switcher
[10:59] <kaemo> damn, i've lost shutdown and restart option from  'shutdown menu'. anyone knows what might be the case?
[11:11] <phillw> kaemo: I see the question, but do not know an answer, you can always try the mailing list if you do not get a reply on here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/GettingInvolved has the details on that and it's a great resource to see where lubuntu is heading.
[11:12] <phillw> hiyas hyperair can you help on "(10:59:24) kaemo: damn, i've lost shutdown and restart option from  'shutdown menu'. anyone knows what might be the case?" I've never come across it.
[11:13] <bioterror> I would give rm -rf to .config ;D
[11:14] <bioterror> (ofcourse to the folders including lx)
[11:14] <bioterror> phillw, that's not the first we encounter this
[11:16] <phillw> bioterror: hmmm, I'll have to pop it onto the mailing list to ensure Julien is aware of it, I've not seen it logged as a bug, maybe it needs to be.
[11:16] <kaemo> i've got it
[11:16] <kaemo> ubuntu makred hal as not needed anymore
[11:16] <kaemo> so it was deleted during apt-get autoremove
[11:17] <bioterror> :D
[11:17] <phillw> kaemo: we still are not totally hal free.
[11:17] <bioterror> installing hal brought them back?
[11:17] <kaemo> yup
[11:17] <kaemo> :]
[11:17] <bioterror> nice to know
[11:17] <bioterror> phillw, captain, make your markings to the log book! ;D
[11:17] <kaemo> phillw: i see now ;)
[11:17] <phillw> kaemo: thanks I'll pop it onto the mailing list so our dev team know.
[11:19] <phillw> kaemo: did you install lubuntu over an existing ubuntu installation, or was it a 'clean' lubuntu installation?
[11:19] <kaemo> over ubuntu desktop
[11:19] <phillw> ahh, then it is a ubuntu bug, not a lubuntu one. But I'll get it documented up.
[11:20] <bioterror> well
[11:20] <bioterror> that could happen with lubuntu too?
[11:20] <bioterror> where's the difference? ;D
[11:20] <kaemo> bioterror: good question
[11:21] <kaemo> phillw: i don't know if it does matter, but lately the lubuntu-desktop metapackage was remove. i also remove some programs like aqualung, mplayer etc., coz i had my favourite ones already installed
[11:22] <phillw> bioterror: I'll raise it on the mailing list, then it can be tested out. In the mean time I can make a note on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp#Install%20Lubuntu%20from%20Ubuntu%20or%20any%20Ubuntu%20flavors
[11:24] <phillw> kaemo: the meta package is quite safe to remove, it's only needed during an install or an upgrade from one version to another https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp#Remove%20lubuntu-desktop has the full gory details if you are un certain.
[11:24] <T44> actually i was wondering if i can do a dist-upgrade without breaking my system
[11:25] <T44> because i removed the metapackage too, and patched the hell out of lxde
[11:26] <phillw> T44: well, you'll be able to tell us :P
[11:28] <phillw> T44: if you totally customise things, then you're not running lubuntu and we have enough on our hands keeping that happy. My suggestion would be to put the meta package back on and then do the dist-upgrade. However the team have committed to supporting the 10.04 beta as if it were an LTS.
[11:29] <T44> yeah of course, its all heavily customized
[11:29] <phillw> T44: so you will still receive all the updates to the lubuntu system, as the new ones will be backported.
[11:30] <T44> guess i'll stay on 10.04 for a while then
[11:30] <phillw> T44: well, for 5 years, anyways :P
[11:30] <T44> heh, good enough :)
[11:30] <T44> running lubuntu on 4 of my computers now
[11:32] <hyperair> phillw: sorry, i don't know what could cause shutdown/restart to disappear either
[11:32] <hyperair> phillw: i saw it years ago, but i imagine that everything has changed since then so the problem isn't the same
[11:32] <phillw> hyperair: it was the removal of hal
[11:32] <hyperair> O_o
[11:32] <hyperair> hal?
[11:32] <hyperair> you mean lxdm can't handle shutdown without hal?
[11:32] <phillw> hyperair: it appears not.
[11:33] <hyperair> meh =\
[11:33] <hyperair> which version?
[11:33] <phillw> hyperair: 10.04
[11:33] <hyperair> i thought 10.10 completed the halsectomy from pretty much everything
[11:33] <hyperair> ah .04
[11:33] <hyperair> that's why
[11:33] <phillw> hyperair: which we're committed to support for 5 years.
[11:34] <hyperair> phillw: well yes, but .04 is frozen, and we can't push an invasive change like that to a frozen release
[11:35] <hyperair> phillw: it just means that with .04 you should keep hal around, that's all.
[11:36] <phillw> hyperair: I know that, but if 11:16:31) kaemo: ubuntu makred hal as not needed anymore
[11:36] <phillw> (11:16:49) kaemo: so it was deleted during apt-get autoremove happens, it will just cause support issues. I'll add it to the 10.04 notes.
[11:36] <hyperair> hmm?
[11:36] <hyperair> that's weird
[11:37] <phillw> hyperair:  it was a lubuntu on top of ubuntu install, so needs to go into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp#Install%20Lubuntu%20from%20Ubuntu%20or%20any%20Ubuntu%20flavors
[11:37] <hyperair> i guess apt-get was acting weird
[11:37] <phillw> I'll get it added in.
[11:37] <hyperair> because lxde/lxde-core/lxsession recommend hal
[11:38] <hyperair> apt-get autoremove should never remove it unless lxde/lxde-core/lxsession were also gone
[11:41] <phillw> hyperair: I've never really played with installing lubuntu on top of an existing system, so I don't know how it behaves, but in 10.04 it obviously mis behaves.
[11:41] <hyperair> apparently so
[11:41] <bioterror> phillw, you should play with ubuntu more ;)
[11:41] <hyperair> phillw: i don't think aptitude would get it wrong
[11:41] <hyperair> phillw: but apparently apt-get does
[11:41] <bioterror> phillw, take one you're going to give away and play with it first
[11:41] <hyperair> i'm going to test this in schroot
[11:57] <kaemo> phillw, hyperair it's 10.10, not 10.04 (in my case)
[11:58] <bioterror> wish there was a alpha to test ;D
[11:58] <phillw> kaemo:  oooh, well that should not be happening then.
[12:00] <kaemo> gtg, bbl :)
[13:43] <hyperair> phillw: i just tried apt-get install ubuntu-desktop, followed by apt-get install lubuntu-desktop, followed by apt-get autoremove ubuntu-desktop, and nothing got removed together with ubuntu-desktop. O_o
[13:43] <phillw> hyperair: most odd, as bioterror said it was not the 1st time he's seen it happen.
[13:44] <hyperair> phillw: weird.
[13:44] <hyperair> phillw: could it have been due to mixing apt-get and aptitude?
[13:44] <phillw> hyperair: It's worth noting on the 10.04 section just in case.
[13:45] <phillw> hyperair: it could be, as they keep two different databases AFIK
[13:45] <hyperair> phillw: but it was 10.10 though
[13:45] <hyperair> and yeah, apt-get keeps a separate db from aptitude
[13:45] <hyperair> at least for the automatically installed packages list
[13:46] <hyperair> phillw: conclusion= people should only use aptitude. =p
[13:46] <phillw> hyperair: yeah, it was 10.10
[13:47] <hyperair> aptitude is awesome. you can even play minesweeper with it
[13:47] <phillw> hyperair: I'm an apt-get person, just because I'm familiar with it, they do both behave slightly differently.
[13:47] <hyperair> slightly
[13:47] <hyperair> i used to be an apt-get person
[13:47] <hyperair> but then i've noticed that aptitude allows for very fine-grained control over dependency issues
[13:47] <hyperair> whereas apt-get would fail right away and complain
[13:48] <phillw> I guess I'll have to learn aptitude as apt-get has been dropped.
[13:48] <phillw> Still it will mean a whole new set of notes on my forum :P
[13:48] <hyperair> phillw: apt-get hasn't been dropped though.
[13:49] <hyperair> phillw: and it probably won't be dropped in the future either
[13:50] <phillw> I thought it was no longer installed by default? I saw messages on the 10.04 testing forum going on about it?
[13:50] <hyperair> no
[13:50] <hyperair> apt-get has always been installed by default
[13:51] <phillw> probably me having a blonde moment, but I recall a thread about it.
[13:52] <kaemo> phillw: in 10.10 aptitude is not installed by default, apt-get is ;-)
[13:53] <phillw> kaemo: that'll be what it was then, I do recall a thread about aptitude and apt-get :)
[13:55] <hyperair> phillw: yeah that's probablt it
[13:55] <hyperair> probably*
[13:56] <phillw> hyperair: lol at apt-get install aptitude :P
[13:57] <hyperair> phillw: hey i do that in my chroots for testing
[13:58] <hyperair> phillw: i recently discovered aptitude -D which shows you why a package is being automatically installed/remove
[13:58] <hyperair> d
[13:58] <hyperair> something like aptitude -D banshee
[13:58] <hyperair> which will show which package depends on what
[14:03] <kaemo> do you know anything about "not authorised" issue when plugging in pendrive? i'm on lectures now and it happend to me in the worst possible time ;p
[14:04] <kaemo> i noticed it in both gnome and lxde (after installing lubuntu-desktop)
[14:05] <hyperair> sounds like something screwed policykit up
[14:05] <kaemo> like used was kicked out form some device admin group or something
[14:05] <kaemo> could be
[14:06] <kaemo> user*
[14:06] <hyperair> i don't see how that could happen.
[14:08] <kaemo> me neither, just makin' some unsure inference from my knowlage ;)
[14:09] <kaemo> i've seen this issue before on the net, ut hoped that it won't affect me ;<
[16:12] <kaemo> anyone present?
[16:13] <phillw> kaemo: I'm usually lurking :)
[16:13] <kaemo> phillw: :)
[16:13] <kaemo> i've got another issue ;<
[16:14] <kaemo> with suspending
[16:14] <kaemo> suspend option in shutdown menu does not work like it's supposed to work
[16:15] <kaemo> it blacks out screen but no suspension is made
[16:15] <kaemo> in gnome-power-preferences i don't even have option to suspend when lid is closed
[16:16] <kaemo> and runnin' gnome-power-preferences --verbose gives something like this:
[16:16] <phillw> suspending is a PITA across the whole family. http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=332 is the best resource for it, they have a list of what ones work, what ones don't and various work arounds.
[16:16] <kaemo> TI:17:10:29	TH:0x89c7da8	FI:gpm-prefs-core.c	FN:gpm_prefs_setup_action_combo,366
[16:16] <kaemo>  - Cannot add option, as cannot suspend.
[16:16] <kaemo> TI:17:10:29	TH:0x89c7da8	FI:gpm-prefs-core.c	FN:gpm_prefs_setup_action_combo,368
[16:16] <kaemo>  - Cannot add option, as cannot hibernate.
[16:16] <kaemo> TI:17:10:29	TH:0x89c7da8	FI:gpm-prefs-core.c	FN:gpm_prefs_setup_action_combo,361
[16:16] <kaemo> okay, i'll give it a look
[16:16] <phillw> !flame | kaemo
[16:16] <kaemo> phillw: flame? how come?
[16:17] <phillw> !flood | kaemo
[16:17] <phillw> me got the wrong command :P
[16:17] <kaemo> ubot5: i know, but i'm on univeristy net and it www doesnt work too good
[16:17] <kaemo> ubot5: go to hell
[16:18] <phillw> !language | kaemo
[16:18] <kaemo> phillw: what does !flame do? ;-)
[16:19] <phillw> flame was an incorrect instruction, what I wanted was flood, ubot is only a bot so if I get it wrong I get an error message from it.
[16:20] <phillw> kaemo: "(16:16:31) ubot5: Sorry, I don't know anything about 'flame'"
[16:20] <kaemo> :)
[16:20] <kaemo> here's paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/533505/
[16:20] <kaemo> but i'look at forum anyway
[16:21] <phillw> kaemo: you'd still be far better off on that area of the forum, there's all sorts of 'tweaks' they know. just remember to use the lubuntu tag if you post a question up.
[16:23] <kaemo> phillw: i know
[16:24] <kaemo> phillw: what is your association with lubuntu project?
[16:24] <phillw> kaemo: /join lubuntu-offtopic
[17:07] <kejt_> hi all, anyone here who can help me
[17:08] <szczur> kejt_, what's the problem?
[17:08] <kejt_> hi szczur... well maybe it isn't quite lubuntu problem, but I dont know where else to go...
[17:09] <kejt_> problem is...
[17:09] <kejt_> that I cant find a way to add a simple xrandr script to startup?
[17:10] <szczur> what about adding it to .XSession in your home folder?
[17:11] <kejt_> I didnt try that, I added it to various rc.d files, xinit and some other i forgot :)
[17:11] <kejt_> will try that now.
[17:12] <szczur> :)
[17:21] <kejt_> szczur... nothing... I did in terminal this:
[17:22] <kejt_> sudo leafpad .Xsession
[17:22] <kejt_> copy paste this http://pastebin.ca/1994752
[17:22] <kejt_> not link, but content... :)
[17:22] <kejt_> and finally chmod 700 .Xsession
[17:23] <kejt_> restared and nothing happened... same old resolution
[17:25] <phillw> kejt_: you need to install xorg.conf for it to remember screen resolutions, i don't know why, but you have to put the screen resolution into the xorg.conf file.
[17:27] <kejt_> ok, but let's say i dont want that, i just want that some script starts up with lubuntu, could that be done? iirc in ubuntu there is "tool" just for managing startup...
[17:28] <phillw> kejt_: the xorg.conf file will be read at startup, it is by far the easier way to do it.
[17:29] <kejt_> ok so do i need to manually create xorg.conf in X11 folder?
[17:33] <phillw> kejt_: http://www.osguides.net/operation-systems/217-how-to-create-xorgconf-in-ubuntu-910.html is where I send people to that has where it puts things etc.
[17:33] <kejt_> ok, thanks will look there...
[17:35] <phillw> you will see an entry for your screen resolution, someone like bioterror would be better able to help you, so hang around for when he's active (I think he's having dinner).
[17:48] <phillw> hyperair: is lxandr remembering screen resolutions?
[17:58] <hyperair> phillw: i don't know, why don't you test it?
[18:01] <phillw> hyperair: because they broke support for my usb 3G dongle in the kernel release in later 9.10 and 10.04. I'm currently running 9.10 ubuntu with updates turned off, it's a real PITA. I'm staying at this pub so can now order cable broadband. It really does it hard for me to support lubuntu :'(
[18:02] <phillw> *does make it hard*
[18:04] <hyperair> hmm
[18:04] <hyperair> well that sucks.
[18:04] <phillw> hyperair: I have a very unloved bug report in for it. But, heck, such is life.
[18:05] <hyperair> heh kernel bug reports often go unloved
[18:06] <phillw> tell me about it :) even http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=92 does not work :(
[18:07] <hyperair> phillw: what you could try doing is looking for the person who develops the driver for your dongle, and whine at him/her
[18:07] <hyperair> wait a sec, exactly what is broken?
[18:07] <phillw> it's a huwaiie (or however they are spelt)
[18:08] <hyperair> hwuawei afaik
[18:08] <hyperair> huawei?
[18:08] <hyperair> @_@
[18:08] <meetingology> hyperair: Error: "_@" is not a valid command.
[18:08] <hyperair> phillw: anyway, if wvdial works, surely it's a problem in the userspace app?
[18:08] <phillw> the network manager simply refuses to recognise my model.
[18:08] <hyperair> yeah maybe it's a network manager problem
[18:09] <hyperair> try poking some network manager devs.
[18:09] <phillw> I've tried the two work arounds from my own forum, and it doesn't want to play with them either.
[18:10] <hyperair> what workarounds are they?
[18:11] <phillw> hyperair: daft thing is, as 3 is one of the main sellers of usb dongles in the UK I was sorta hoping they'd get onto it, I reported it during the 10.04 testing cycle on 10.04
[18:11] <phillw> hyperair: have a read of the thread. http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=92
[18:11] <hyperair> phillw: i only see one post.
[18:11] <hyperair> and i saw it already.
[18:12] <phillw> hyperair: let me go dig out the bug report.
[18:13] <kristian-aalborg> hi all
[18:16] <phillw> hyperair: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/529794?comments=all maybe you could give some one a 'gentle' dig in the ribs?
[18:16] <phillw> hiyas kristian-aalborg
[18:16] <kristian-aalborg> the Eee 700 is running smoothly with 10.4 :D
[18:17] <hyperair> phillw: by the way, next time you gather information in a forum thread, please copy it over to the bug report. developers don't like following links everywhere
[18:17] <phillw> hyperair: I enclosed the forum thread link on the bug report, that is how I found the bug report :D
[18:18] <hyperair> phillw: i mean please summarize whatever's useful in the forum thread into a comment on the bug report.
[18:18] <hyperair> phillw: every extra step you make a developer take reduces the likelihood that he/she's going to fix the bug
[18:18] <hyperair> or even take a good long look at it
[18:20] <phillw> hyperair: okies, I have no problem doing that, but the devs etc. have to appreciate that whilst there is the 'full, official' way of doing reports, us lesser mortals do not know them and just try to give as much information as we can.
[18:21] <hyperair> phillw: that doesn't stop you from posting useful information such as your device id from lsusb, logs, any potential workarounds used, and whatnot onto the bug report instead of leaving it hidden inside a forum thread for developers to dig through.
[18:22] <hyperair> phillw: many devels don't even open bugs.launchpad.net, they just stare at their emails, and if they don't see the information there they just ignore it and move on, or request for more info, and move on anyway
[18:43] <kristian-aalborg> any slim users here?
[18:45] <bioterror> kristian-aalborg, sowwy, lubuntu uses lxdm as default
[18:45] <kristian-aalborg> yup, I saw
[18:45] <kristian-aalborg> setting up slim should not be too hard, though
[18:46] <kristian-aalborg> it does start the X server ;)
[19:22] <kristian-aalborg> fwiw, lubuntu 10.4 takes about 1,7gigs
[19:23] <kristian-aalborg> hey, I got slim working :D
[19:24] <mark76> How?
[19:25] <kristian-aalborg> I just kept messing around
[19:25] <phillw> kristian-aalborg: so I was not that far out when I said 2GB including swap, it's nice to be correct every so often :P
[19:26] <mark76> Yes. But what did you do that made it work?
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> I can paste the files, mark76
[19:26] <mark76> Okay
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> however...
[19:26] <mark76> :|
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> there's no network OR configuration tools
[19:27] <kristian-aalborg> since I got it (slim) running... will have to figure that out ;)
[19:28] <mark76> Does SLiM normally come with network and configuration tools?
[19:28] <kristian-aalborg> there should be no connection
[19:30] <kristian-aalborg> hmm
[19:30] <kristian-aalborg> I might be using the wrong commands in the .xinitrc
[19:33] <kristian-aalborg> does anybody know this?
[19:34] <kristian-aalborg> I use, for Lubuntu:
[19:34] <kristian-aalborg> exec startlubuntu
[19:34] <kristian-aalborg> for openbox
[19:34] <kristian-aalborg> exec openbox-session
[19:34] <kristian-aalborg> in other words, the stuff from /usr/bin - is this the correct approach?
[20:05] <kristian-aalborg> hurm
[20:06] <kristian-aalborg> I also lost my keyboard settings, it seems
[20:06] <kristian-aalborg> ah wait
[20:06] <kristian-aalborg> I did not... only lxterm doesn't see them
[20:14] <kristian-aalborg> I think SLiM is by far the leanest
[20:15] <kristian-aalborg> but I'd be okay with lxdm too if I could strip it down to what slim does
[20:15] <kristian-aalborg> "press this button to flip between sessions"
[20:48] <Kurdistan> guys can you take a look to: http://paste.ubuntu.com/533452/?
[20:49] <Kurdistan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/533452/
[21:06] <leszek> hi
[21:06] <szczur> hi leszek
[21:18] <phillw> hiyas leszek, szczur has just been sold, pop onto #lubuntu-offtopic for the details :)
[21:31] <kristian-aalborg> any idea how to remove unneded entries from lxdm?
[21:34] <kaemo> did anyone had issues with suspending not working?
[21:40] <kristian-aalborg> kaemo: look at the wiki, I think there might be something there
[22:23] <kristian-aalborg> hurf durf
[22:24] <kristian-aalborg> should I remove the swap partition on the ssd? I have 512 megs of ram
[22:39] <koios> hi phillw
[22:43] <kristian-aalborg> anyone using radiotray?


[01:41] <catbus1> Hi, I hit this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/neutron-api/+bug/1535374, is there a way to update the keystone charm without redeploy?
[01:41] <mup> Bug #1535374: keystone hook failed: "shared-db-relation-changed" - Invalid service requested: 'neutron' <oil> <neutron-api (Juju Charms Collection):Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535374>
[01:41] <catbus1> how do I tell the unit to update the keystone charm from the keystone/next?
[02:05] <arosales> catbus1: I am on my way out but saw your question.  Have you take a look at charm upgrade?
[02:06] <arosales> re the bug you referenced the suggestion was to try the next development release of the charm and not the stable one.  But not that around Jan 28 there should be openstack charm release to pull this in
[02:06] <arosales> catbus1: references to look at:
[02:06] <arosales> https://jujucharms.com/docs/1.25/authors-charm-upgrades
[02:06] <catbus1> arosales: but the charm upgrade is from the same place keystone/stable, right? I need it from keystone/next
[02:07] <arosales> correct you would need to branch the charm locally and then specify that in your charm upgrade
[02:07] <arosales> here are a couple of other references
[02:07] <arosales> https://jujucharms.com/docs/1.24/commands (search the page for upgrade-charm
[02:07] <catbus1> arosales: ok, great, thank you!
[02:07] <arosales> and a few other forum posts
[02:07] <arosales> http://marcoceppi.com/2015/01/force-upgrade-best-juju-secret/
[02:07] <arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseNotes/OpenStackCharms
[02:07] <arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OpenStackCharms/ReleaseNotes1510
[02:08] <arosales> if you are running in production I would suggest to wait for the stable release so you are on a stablel to stable path
[02:08] <arosales> but at least you can read over these options and perhaps give you some things to consider
[02:08] <arosales> hope that helps.
[02:08] <arosales> have a good weekend
[02:08]  * arosales grabs some dinner
[02:08] <catbus1> arosales: it does help. thanks, have a weekend.
[02:09] <arosales> cool
[15:51]  * D4RKS1D3 Hi


[03:23] <linux_is_my_hero> my cups client computer sees the shared printer on the cups server, but when attempting to print, the job is sent and nothing happens.