[00:24] <jMCg> short summary: I can't get grub to install while having the kvm "booted" with virt-rescue, I can't get the kvm to boot with the host's kernel/initrd, because of race conditions in udev/init-bottom
[00:25] <jMCg> lovely.
[00:25] <jMCg> Btw, trying to install a grub in the guest is just a straw -- there's no gurantee that it'll boot with that.
[00:43] <Kano> hi, why is include/generated/compile.h not packaged?
[00:44] <Kano> it is in the debian kernel headers
[00:44] <Kano> http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/amd64/linux-headers-3.2.0-1-amd64/filelist
[00:44] <Kano> the complete generated part is missing
[00:46] <Kano> well not all, just that file...
[00:47] <Kano> here is only the cross/config.h
[11:21] <bethebunny> Is there any way I can tell the kernel to not buffer a pipe? I realize this is a bad idea, I just want to test some things
[11:36] <jMCg> oh, wow. Something seems to have leaked from libguestfs into my host.
[11:51] <jMCg> oh, joy. So, when I install more than one kernel in $host, it doesn't boot anymore.
[13:42] <eagles0513875> hey guys :)
[13:42] <eagles0513875> is 3.2.0-16 or -17 going to be the final kernel for precise?
[13:43] <eagles0513875> hey yofel
[13:43] <eagles0513875> you a kernel expert
[15:44] <eagles0513875> hey guys anyone around in here
[15:44] <eagles0513875> im getting a kernel panic with the latest precise kernel the -17 as well as the -16 http://picpaste.com/pics/sshot-55-LmLJQcdb.1330180894.jpg <-- shows the panic
[16:11] <vitb_home> eagles0513875: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/935585  looks similar enough
[16:11] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 935585 in upstart "[kernel panic] init: log.c:786: Assertion failed in log_clear_unflushed: log->remote_closed" [High,Confirmed]
[16:42] <eagles0513875> yep thats it  it


[11:55] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[15:34] <freakyy> hi all. is there by any chance a possibility that they fix the nvidia driver or wahtever which prevents me from using mouse or keyboard in the installer
[15:34] <freakyy> ?
[15:34] <freakyy> or live system
[15:34] <freakyy> ?
[15:37] <hggdh> freakyy: yes, there is a good chance. But you have to report what happened as a bug
[16:25] <BluesKaj> freakyy, which ubuntu?
[16:26] <BluesKaj> this is ubunru +1 which is mainly a testing/dev chat for ubuntu 181.0 Cosmic , maybe ask in #uhuntu chat
[16:27] <BluesKaj> err 18.10


[04:25] <mup> Bug # changed: 1539785, 1558232, 1558239, 1560191
[23:01] <thumper> ugh
[23:01] <thumper> provider/lxd tests don't pass if you aren't in the lxd groupd
[23:01] <thumper> ffs
[23:01] <thumper> test isolation FTW
[23:53] <davecheney> thumper: protip: uninstall lxd and they pass
[23:53] <davecheney> (i'm not joking)


[05:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Any updates you want to commit to elementary-xfce?
[09:56] <bluesabre> Unit193: besides uploading it? Mau-G pushed a release yesterday
[09:57] <Unit193> Yes I'm aware, hence why I asked. :D


[04:56] <micahg> utlemming: we're working on getting some more help for backports
[08:09] <flexiondotorg> Laney, if you have a sec I'd like to discuss some package updates that I've been asked to seek UI freeze exceptions for.
[08:13] <sil2100> Quick heads up - I'm disabling the system-image importer for a short moment
[08:30] <sil2100> It's back up if anything
[08:48] <flexiondotorg> Laney, can I request a moment of your time please?
[08:49] <Laney> flexiondotorg: One second please
[08:49] <flexiondotorg> Sure
[09:47] <Riddell> bug 1488843 could do with going into vivid-updates if someone has the powers for that
[09:48] <Laney> flexiondotorg: At your service
[09:48] <flexiondotorg> Cheers
[09:49] <flexiondotorg> I got some updated that require UI exemptions.
[09:49] <flexiondotorg> Can you take a look and potentially sign off?
[09:49] <flexiondotorg> First up is - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-welcome/+bug/1493274
[09:50] <flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE Welcome is not currently translated. I'll be opening that up in 16.04.
[09:50] <flexiondotorg> I did submit these before the UI freeze in an effort to dodge UI expemtions.
[09:51] <Laney> flexiondotorg: does the ubuntu docs team do anything with ubuntu mate?
[09:51] <flexiondotorg> No.
[09:56] <Laney> flexiondotorg: OK, I think it's fine then if you're not invalidating the work of anyone else
[09:56] <flexiondotorg> Thanks. Can you ack that bug please?
[09:56] <flexiondotorg> I have one other to discuss as well.
[09:56] <Laney> I did
[09:57] <flexiondotorg> Thanks.
[09:57] <Laney> I just commented on plank if it's that one
[09:57] <flexiondotorg> Well, I want that too. But here is the other.
[09:57] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-artwork/+bug/1493065
[09:57] <flexiondotorg> Minor change.
[09:58] <Laney> k
[09:58] <Laney> You know the release team isn't subscribed to this
[09:58] <Laney> so we wouldn't have seen it
[09:59] <flexiondotorg> Yeah, I wasn't sure when/if I shouild subscribe the release-team.
[09:59] <Laney> It would be preferable to do this that way instead of synchronously on IRC
[09:59] <flexiondotorg> OK, understood. Will do in future.
[09:59] <darkxst> Laney, probably a TB Question, but I have been wondering if UiFe for flavour specific stuff, couldnt be delegated to the relevant flavour team leads
[10:00] <darkxst> s/couldnt/could/
[10:01] <Laney> darkxst: Perhaps. You probably want to keep a way of avoiding messing up the work of people working on documenting and translating things, but maybe the main RT doesn't have to be involved for flavours.
[10:01] <Laney> darkxst: Bring it up on ubuntu-release@ if you want to talk about a change
[10:01] <flexiondotorg> Laney, Can you just cast a quick eye over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-settings/+bug/1493034
[10:01] <flexiondotorg> I don't think it needs an UI or FF exemption.
[10:05] <darkxst> Laney, ok, will do
[10:05] <Laney> flexiondotorg: It probably does since you're changing the scrollbars
[10:06] <flexiondotorg> Laney, Understood.
[10:06] <flexiondotorg> It is OK?
[10:06] <Laney> Sure
[10:06] <flexiondotorg> Basically, they are alway displayed now.
[10:07] <flexiondotorg> Laney, thanks for helping. I'll sub the RT in future for such exemptions.
[10:07] <flexiondotorg> I'd like those update in the next beta so I can focus on bug hunting after that.
[10:08] <flexiondotorg> Laney, do you require any flavour assistance for the next bet?
[10:08] <flexiondotorg> *beta?
[12:28] <tjaalton> infinity: so, new mesa-lts-vivid adds renamed libosmesa6* packages, but it doesn't solve installability of the libosmesa6 library, because all the reverse deps are versioned, and Provides isn't
[12:33] <sil2100> Hey guys! Is there any archive admin around to help us out with a review of a CI Train landing that introduces new binary packages (soname bump)? The packaging has been already reviewed by kenvandine, but we still need the archive admin approval:
[12:34] <sil2100> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-010-2-publish/80/artifact/unity-scopes-api_packaging_changes.diff <- the packaging diff
[12:34] <sil2100> Thanks o/
[14:42] <infinity> tjaalton: I don't have any context there.  What was the bug you were trying to fix?
[14:47] <tjaalton> infinity: well it's part of bug 1424466, but an internal request to allow installing libosmesa6's rdeps
[14:48] <tjaalton> there's only one way to fix it in trusty that I can see, which is to build osmesa separately like on precise, and starting from w+1 rely on versioned Provides
[14:48] <tjaalton> mesa upstream no longer has machinery for static builds
[14:53] <tjaalton> uh no, it's bug 1424059
[15:01] <jamespage> doko, ^^ those two :-) pretty please :)
[15:30] <doko> jamespage, python-magnumclient accepted. for a MIR approval please check to run the testsuite for python3 as well
[15:30] <jamespage> doko, ack will do
[15:31] <doko> for debian acceptance, ... there are a lot of copyright holders missing in debian/copyright
[15:37] <doko> jamespage, castellan looks ok, runs the tests for all versions
[15:55] <jamespage> doko, thanks for the NEW processing - much appreciated...
[21:14] <bdmurray> slangasek: I think bug 1258639 mostly covers the same case we were talking about the other day regarding upgrading from T to V.
[21:43] <slangasek> bdmurray: looks like it, yes
[21:44] <bdmurray> I'll see if similar changes work for upgrading from T to V then.


[10:24] <zequence> sakrecoer_: I've updated the current-standard repo with the correct CoFs, and did a black version of the wordmark (just changed the color)
[10:25] <zequence> Also added that to the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/UserShowcase
[10:25] <zequence> There are more versions of the wordmark, but it's not really that important for the wallpapers anyway, so I'm going to leave it at this
[10:25] <zequence> Will announce the contest tomorrow
[10:26] <zequence> Once Zak is around, we can talk with him more about collecting standard art in one place, and also creating a page for it on our website
[10:26] <zequence> We also need to change the website theme, so there's plenty to do
[10:26] <zequence> I won't bother with this for a little while though. Need to do other stuff now :)


[05:02] <Tinchio> can anyone recommend me an IDE for Java? it must have auto complete code function and sintax highlight, please anyone else but Eclipse or Netbeans
[06:15] <man-di> Tinchio: Emacs+JDEE, Vim+some java plugin
[19:29] <xhaker> man-di: any progress on the eclipse 3.3.* packaging for Debian?
[19:31] <xhaker> on a side note, I don't fancy netbeans very much


[01:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4693 Needs rebuild due to new commits (focal/unity). Ready to build (/:, focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:unity, focal/to, focal/update)
[02:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4693 Ready to build (/:, focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:unity, focal/to, focal/update). Updates pocket (focal/unity)
[02:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rikmills, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4824 Failed to build
[16:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rikmills, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4825 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now


[01:01] <mwhudson> hm
[01:01] <mwhudson> is it possible to have a desktop client for sms's that talks to my phone over bluetooth or similar?
[01:02] <ajmitch> I think so, but it'd depend on what your phone would support
[01:02] <mwhudson> ah, maybe this is really what i want: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.desktopsms&hl=en
[01:03] <ajmitch> I remember that gnokii used to do it for older phones
[01:03] <ajmitch> right, I guess installing an app on the phone that can be controlled by your desktop would work :)
[01:14] <mwhudson> airdroid seems quite nice
[19:41] <chilts> morning
[20:21] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:29] <Atamira> morning
[20:29] <ajmitch> morning
[21:06] <hads> morning
[22:05] <thumper> morning


[05:52] <Unit193> dax: inco9 seems to have hit Ubuntu and ubottu too
[05:53] <dax> Unit193: indeed. We're working on it.
[10:58] <ikonia> gone
[11:55] <jpds> Ah, I like how -ru's !ask says at the end that everyone might be sleeping.
[12:00] <bazhang> pretty sure that spammer got klined LjL
[12:09] <popey> aha! a jpds !
[12:09]  * popey stabs jpds with !lococouncil
[12:10] <ikonia> I thought that had been changed
[12:10] <ikonia> !lococouncil
[12:10] <popey> please to be fixing that factoid
[12:10] <ikonia> upp
[12:10] <ikonia> oops
[12:10] <popey> try in -irc
[12:10] <ikonia> just released I shouldn't have done that as I did it
[12:10] <ikonia> didn't want to ping anyone
[12:10] <popey> or -locoteams where people actually use it
[12:10] <ikonia> not going to ping anyone
[12:10] <ikonia> no no
[12:10] <ikonia> I'll do it in a pm
[12:14] <ikonia> gee I wonder why this guy was banned
[12:14] <Gay-Meow> Hi all!
[12:14] <Gay-Meow> Why me banned yesterday?
[12:15] <Gay-Meow> LjL?
[12:15] <LjL> Gay-Meow: because #ubuntu is a technical support channel, and your question about Shuttleworth's sexual preferences had nothing to do with that.
[12:15] <Gay-Meow> but please
[12:16] <Tm_T> yes?
[12:16] <Gay-Meow> If he is gay me will a pleasure to use Ubuntu
[12:16] <Tm_T> Gay-Meow: for that question or discussion, #ubuntu is not the place
[12:17] <LjL> Gay-Meow: that seems very silly, using or not using a distribution based on the sexual preferences of its founder. anyway, please refrain from asking questions like that in #ubuntu in the future. only technical support.
[12:17] <Gay-Meow> Just i read about him that he say bad words about gays, but I do not believe
[12:17] <Gay-Meow> sorry ok
[12:18] <Gay-Meow> but here me ask it question?
[12:18] <Gay-Meow> where
[12:18] <LjL> Gay-Meow: try #gaygeeks maybe.
[12:18] <Gay-Meow> no work((
[12:19] <Gay-Meow> channel does not exist?
[12:19] <Gay-Meow> #gaygeeks
[12:19] <LjL> it exists
[12:19] <LjL> you need to
[12:19] <LjL> !register
[12:20] <LjL> if you need help with registration, ask #freenode
[12:20] <Gay-Meow> register on freenode or channel for gays?
[12:20] <LjL> freenode
[12:20] <Gay-Meow> ok
[12:21] <Gay-Meow> normal?
[12:21] <LjL> hmm?
[12:21] <Gay-Meow> i registered?
[12:21] <LjL> 13:21:33] [Notice] -NickServ- Gay-Meow is not registered.
[12:21] <LjL> again if you need help with registration, please ask in #freenode
[12:22] <Gay-Meow> but i make coman nick "nick"
[12:22] <Gay-Meow> ok
[12:22] <LjL> "/nick" is not for registering.
[12:22] <LjL> read the guide.
[12:22] <Gay-Meow> thanks you!
[12:22] <Gay-Meow> thx!
[12:23] <LjL> Gay-Meow: please leave this channel if you have no more questions for us here
[12:23] <Gay-Meow> ok thx!
[12:23] <Gay-Meow> bye bye! kiss u!
 yes vlvc is a special version of vlc...to use video conf.
[12:28] <bazhang> special version of VLC? really?
[12:29] <popey> http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlvc/
[12:29] <LjL> bazhang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoLan_VideoConference
[12:29] <popey> looks that way
[12:30] <bazhang> LjL, any clue what noplv426 wants?
[12:31] <LjL> bazhang: yeah, he wants a good video conferencing solution. unfortunately i'm afraid those are lacking.
[12:31] <Pici> google hangouts!
[13:15] <mrmist> the "find" bot is back again
[13:16] <ikonia> gone
[13:16] <ikonia> left a message for it to contact this channel
[14:40] <HFSPLUS> why did you meenies ban me from ubuntu?
[14:40] <HFSPLUS> I dont understand at why you are being so mean your a big meanie
[14:40] <LjL> oh, lord, not you
[14:40] <HFSPLUS> who?
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> ....................../´¯/)
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> ....................,/¯../
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> .................../..../
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
[14:41] <HFSPLUS> ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
[14:42] <Pici> I don't have the patience for this today.
[14:44] <ikonia> don't bother, it's a waste of time
[14:59] <LjL> Pici: [15:52:43] <LjL> usr13, ActionParsnip, cordoval:  ( lsmod ; lsb_release -a ; uname -a ) | pastebinit
[14:59] <LjL> but maybe aside from highlighting three people i should have made it in colors or something
[15:00] <Pici> woo
[15:01] <Pici> LjL: I saw it actually, just was commenting on the use of the 'info' file.
[15:01] <LjL> i just get kind of upset when there's a perfectly functioning command that was already given, and then a potentially bad one is given instead, *and* defended
[15:11] <Pici> ugh
[15:11] <Pici> I could use some help with HFSPLUS (wherever you see him) and in #ubuntu-women
[15:11] <Myrtti> Pici: where?
[15:12] <Pici> Myrtti: HFSPLUS in #kubuntu, #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic, #ubuntu-irc....
[15:12] <Pici> and some trolls in -women
[15:12] <Pici> They're in #freenode too
[15:14] <LjL> he disconnected, watch for ban evasion
[15:22] <mneptok> there are some days that contributing to the Ubuntu community makes me feel like an anchor repairman from New Zealand
[15:22] <mneptok> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/antarctica/9050999/Repair-man-accidentally-joins-South-Pole-expedition.html
[15:47] <LjL> jrib: olawd
[15:47] <jrib> hmm
[15:48]  * Myrtti puts that in quote file
[17:02] <Myrtti> I saw oCean nekk... nevermind
[17:03] <gary> pics or it neve... oh hi
[17:03] <oCean> what did I do now
[17:03] <pangolin> I got all the pics to prove it.
[17:24] <Dave2> \win 21
[22:29] <urlin2u> we are getting political pm's from   CanolaOil  at #ubuntu
[22:32] <Myrtti> ok, could you pm me one?
[22:33] <urlin2u> Myrtti, I didn't even look but there are others that claimed they were, I just ran the !pm for the bot to tell them about pming.
[22:34] <elky> urlin2u, could you direct someone who actually got the message to us?
[22:34] <urlin2u> Myrtti, posted in the channel by <LordDragon>
[22:36] <urlin2u> I never open unsolicited pm's I just saw the evidence on the channel, I will do this better in the future. :D
[22:36] <Myrtti> removed, banned and reported
[22:38] <pangolin> thanks for taking care of that Myrtti and thank you urlin2u for reporting
[22:39] <urlin2u> no problem


[15:46] <cmaloney> https://app.getpocket.com/read/2971771299
[15:47] <cmaloney> Tim Bray left Amazon
[15:47] <cmaloney> https://getpocket.com/library/?pl_i=2971771299 <- Better link
[15:53] <jrwren> i never heard of him before today, but he is a hero
[15:53] <greg-g> +1
[15:53] <jrwren> "Firing whistleblowers isn’t just a side-effect of macroeconomic forces, nor is it intrinsic to the function of free markets. It’s evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture."
[15:53] <cmaloney> He's big in the Ruby community
[15:53] <jrwren> https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2020/04/29/Leaving-Amazon
[15:54] <cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Bray
[15:54] <cmaloney> erm, not ruby
[15:55] <cmaloney> XML and JSON and other web standards
[15:57] <jrwren> oh, he is retirement age. Here I was expecting some young 20something.
[16:10] <mrgoodcat> he's only been at amazon for 5 years, and i believe he was actually at aws not amazon proper
[16:13] <jrwren> he says both of those in his post, yes.
[16:13] <jrwren> but... what is the difference between AWS and "amazon proper"?
[16:41] <mrgoodcat> aws is officially a separate business with its own leadership and corporate structure
[16:42] <mrgoodcat> "amazon proper" is the parent company which is amazon.com
[16:43] <cmaloney> Does Jeff Bezos get money from AWS?
[16:46] <jrwren> yes.
[16:46] <jrwren> its just a business unit.
[16:46] <jrwren> its l"separate" like instagram or whatsapp are. lol.
[16:47] <jrwren> or how Alphabet has google and all its other separatre business units.
[16:47] <jrwren> I don't see why distinction of a business unit is important.
[16:57] <cmaloney> tax purposes
[16:57] <cmaloney> That's about it
[16:58] <jrwren> hrm... I don't think it even counts for tax purposes. AFAIK it isn't structured as a wholy-owned subsidiary. It isn't like Berkshire Hathaways holdings. It is just a business unit, AFAIK.
[18:23] <mrgoodcat> I think in this case the distinction is, as stated in the article, the average power balance between employee and employer is much different between amazon and aws
[18:40] <jrwren> yeah.
[22:41] <gamerchick02> i got my Commodore movie! i ordered The Commodore Story on blu-ray and just got it today!


[04:44] <KrakenOverlord> Hey everybody
[04:45] <KrakenOverlord> I have a problem with audio not working with lubuntu
[04:48] <KrakenOverlord> I suspect I'm missing something deeper, because youtube returns strange errors and spotify refuses to open
[17:20] <FOX5> im looking for a way to mount windows etwork drives onto a linyux operating system throught the command line
[18:53] <damascene> Lubuntu 16.04 has the shortcuts at the bottom bar over the menu button http://i.imgur.com/Q6F8YcJ.png
[18:53] <damascene> Should I report it
[19:15] <pierri_magazine> qual é a ultima versao lubuntu lts?
[19:15] <krytarik> !14.04 | pierri_magazine
[19:19] <pierri_magazine> obrigado, pela atenção..... é que estou rodando o ubuntu mate 15.10 em ambiente empresarial e esta travando bastante..... vou colocar o lubuntu!
[22:11] <GeorgeX> hi.  i'm trying to install lubuntu on my windows computer and am getting an error
[22:11] <GeorgeX> soemthing baut UEFI and not beign able to boot the existing OS
[22:15] <damascene> Lubuntu 16.04 has the shortcuts at the bottom bar over the menu button http://i.imgur.com/Q6F8YcJ.png should I report it?
[22:15] <damascene> GeorgeX, it's something in your computer BIOS
[22:17] <GeorgeX> damascene, my computer bios is set to legacy
[22:17] <GeorgeX> rather than uefi.  would windows 7 have bypased the bios setting?


[09:24] <jtv> Anyone willing to review a branch for the OCR?  I've been leaning on henninge far too much for my reviews.
[09:24] <jtv> noodles775, you could do this!
[09:24] <jtv> Willing to review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/extract-approval-js ?
[09:25] <jtv> Ahem... MP is https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/extract-approval-js/+merge/28852
[09:29] <noodles775> Sorry jtv - I'm working to get an urgent feature done right now...
[09:29]  * jtv continues his search for prey
[09:33] <jtv> rockstar, on the off-chance you're working right now: I'm hoping to get a javascript review...  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/extract-approval-js/+merge/28852
[09:42] <rinze> jtv: I can code review, but I'm not a UI reviewer
[09:43] <jtv> rinze: that's fine—there's no UI change apart from chromium now showing things properly like other browsers.
[09:43] <jtv> rinze: is javascript a problem?
[09:44] <rinze> no, javascript should be fine
[09:44] <jtv> And... change of nick?
[09:44]  * rinze claims the MP
[09:44] <jtv> thanks
[09:44] <rinze> jtv: I switched to two nicks that I can connect/disconnect independently, one for work and one for other FOSS stuff
[09:44] <jtv> begrijpelijk
[12:46] <rinze> jtv: I haven't forgotten your branch but it's taking a wee bit longer since my JavaScript is a bit rusty.
[12:47] <jtv> rinze: in that case, it'd probably be better to go over it with a javascript-specialized reviewer—gets you unrusted and also lets you pick up JS coding guidelines.
[12:51] <rinze> jtv: Yeah, that'd be useful, though there doesn't appear to be one around at the moment :-(
[12:52] <jtv> ...and there's the catch.
[12:52] <rinze> (I've just been looking at https://dev.launchpad.net/JavaScriptReviewNotes)
[12:54] <jtv> rinze: looking at those myself now... I see that my documentation needs some tweaks.
[12:56] <bigjools> jtv: hi
[12:56] <jtv> hi bigjools
[12:56] <bigjools> jtv: can you review this for me please: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/launchpad/copy-archive-fix-component/+merge/28871
[12:56] <bigjools> it's going to be a CP
[12:57] <jtv> bigjools: so speed matters... right ho
[12:57] <bigjools> thanks
[12:58] <jtv> rinze: I was in the process of updating my documentation; will finish that after julian's review.  BTW I think I forgot to mention that there was no lint.
[12:59] <rinze> rinze, ok
[13:00] <bigjools> rinze: how many other nicks have you got? :)
[13:01] <jtv> bigjools: approved
[13:01] <bigjools> jtv: cheers
[13:01] <bigjools> now, I need flacoste to do the same :)
[13:01] <jtv> quite
[13:01] <jtv> I suppose you can land on devel in the meantime.
[13:04] <rinze> bigjools: just these three :-)
[13:05] <rinze> jtv: I also have another branch up for review
[13:05] <jtv> rinze: let's have it then
[13:05] <rinze> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jelmer/launchpad/600153-main-archive-builds-on-restricted/+merge/28867
[13:15] <jtv> rinze: did you run "make lint" btw?
[13:17] <rinze> jtv: No, I haven't run make lint
[13:17] <jtv> Make it a habit.  We're supposed to do that before submitting the MP.
[13:19] <rinze> ok
[13:22] <jtv> Also, I know it's not your fault (or at least not in this branch), but could you give _get_enabled_restricted_families and _set_enabled_restricted_families docstrings explaining what their purpose is?  If they're methods, give them dromedaryCase names rather than underscore_separated names.
[13:25]  * rinze nods
[13:27] <jtv> Also, in _set_enabled_restricted_families please consider avoiding that nasty line break in the "if" condition.  Not very important, but would-be-nice.
[13:28] <bigjools> jtv: I have another branch up, not urgent though, at your leisure!
[13:28]  * bigjools needs to eat
[13:28] <jtv> bigjools: on the queue please
[13:28] <rinze> jtv: I considered that but I couldn't think of an easy way of doing that without adding a nested if statement
[13:28] <bigjools> done, ta
[13:28] <jtv> Thanks.  My fault for not updating the topic.
[13:28] <jtv> On call:  jtv || reviewing: rinze || queue: [bigjools] || This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ || https://code.launchpad.net/launchpad/+activereviews
[13:29] <jtv> rinze: in this case a nested would not be _that_ bad if you combine it with a temporary variable.
[13:29] <jtv> rinze: thanks  :)
[13:31] <jtv> rinze: btw I was wondering... what does CannotRestrictArchitectures._fmt do?
[13:35] <rinze> jtv: I believe it's used for the stringified version of the exception
[13:35] <jtv> rinze: stringified version?  You mean for __repr__'ing it?
[13:36] <jtv> rinze: come to think of it I'd prefer it if you just passed the error message to the constructor.
[13:36] <rinze> I meant __str__, but now that I'm checking it doesn't actually appear to be the case.
[13:37] <rinze> it's what some of the other exceptions used as well
[13:37] <rinze> jtv: That makes sense
[13:38] <jtv> Also avoids changes between python versions... the underscore sort of says "don't mess with this, it looks funny and there's a faint ticking noise coming out of it."
[13:49] <jtv> rinze: btw lint doesn't complain about it, but try to avoid trailing whitespace as well.
[13:56] <flacoste> bigjools: what do you need me for?
[14:17] <jtv> rinze: you have a line overrun in your docstring for test_main_archive_can_use_restricted.  You can fix that by turning it into a comment—we don't usually write docstrings for test methods.
[14:19] <jtv> rinze: and have a look at TestCase.assertContentEqual; will save you a bit of listification there.
[14:19] <rinze> rinze: The style guide is ambiguous in that regard: "Write in the docstring of each test case what is being tested. As a special case for test methods, a comment block at the beginning of the method is considered an acceptable substitute to a docstring."
[14:20] <rinze> s/rinze/jtv/
[14:20] <rinze> jtv: Ah, I wasn't aware of that one - thanks
[14:20] <jtv> rinze: we don't usually write docstrings there... saves us having to follow the docstring format.
[14:20] <jtv> So don't feel too bad about being merely "considered acceptable."  :-)
[14:23] <rinze> heh, ok
[14:31] <jtv> bigjools, line 66 of your diff: s/Lets/Let's/
[14:32] <bigjools> grar
[14:32] <jtv> But frankly starting paragraphs with that is usually an indicator that you're trying to pass off setup code as documentation.
[14:32] <jtv> You may just want to say something like "we have a" rather than "let's make a"
[14:32] <bigjools> I welcome any recommendation to make it better
[14:33] <jtv> Do it all in French!
[14:33] <jtv> no wait
[14:33] <bigjools> Enc...
[14:33] <bigjools> no waut
[14:33] <jtv> ?
[14:34] <bigjools> typing is clearly not my strong point today
[14:35] <jtv> bigjools: instead of...
[14:35] <jtv> https://code.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/launchpad/api-commercial-ppas-bug-597211/+merge/28877
[14:35] <jtv> argh
[14:35] <jtv> Instead of...
[14:35] <jtv> store = getUtility(IStoreSelector).get(MAIN_STORE, DEFAULT_FLAVOR)
[14:36] <bigjools> are we putting the missing U back?
[14:36] <jtv> ...you can just say...
[14:36] <jtv> store = IStore(Archive)
[14:36] <jtv> The missing U back?  I wish.  But now we can say it's a metric U and some people just haven't gotten around to adopting it yet.
[14:36] <bigjools> does that select a slave or master depending on the operation?
[14:37] <jtv> Yes, that's the default flavour.
[14:37] <bigjools> cool
[14:37] <jtv> There's also IMasterStore and ISlaveStore.  Thank stub for that.
[14:37] <bigjools> we should do a branch to fix all of those at once
[14:37] <bigjools> yeah I know, I have a jihad branch that is forcibly choosing ISlaveStore but it breaks a million tests
[14:38] <jtv> In some places you'll need to commit just to make the slave catch up.
[14:38] <bigjools> I know -  but it's not as simple as that
[14:40] <jtv> bigjools: I was hoping for more here :)
[14:40] <jtv> what complications do you have in mind?
[14:40] <bigjools> I'm gonna take a new strategy of using the Slave policy in top-level scripts and cast objects to IMasterObject where I need to write them
[14:40] <jtv> BTW with those changes the branch looks good to me.  Nice work.
[14:41] <stub> If IStore(Archive) doesn't work because it is not derived from SQLBase (not sure), they can review my branch with the one line fix.
[14:43] <jtv> bigjools: I just approved your branch
[14:43] <bigjools> jtv: grassyass
[14:43] <jtv> rinze, how's yours coming along?
[14:43] <jtv> bigjools: de nutter
[14:55]  * jtv is taking a break
[15:17] <jtv-afk> hi EdwinGrubbs!
[15:17] <jtv-afk> Maybe you can review one of mine?
[15:17] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv-afk: sure
[15:17] <jtv-afk> EdwinGrubbs: e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-580337/+merge/28880
[16:04] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv-afk: what does "test_getVariable_smoke" mean? I don't see anything called "smoke".
[16:32] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: smoke test :)
[16:34] <EdwinGrubbs> I kinda guessed, but it seemed a little vague.
[16:35] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: review sent
[16:35] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: thanks!
[17:20] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: btw, do you have any thoughts on the email I sent about adding code to POTemplate.importFromQueue() to cache the message count?
[17:20] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: oh, I swapped that out... hang on
[17:22] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: istm this count doesn't have to be time-accurate so an offline job may be more suitable.  Apart from that it made sense.
[17:23] <jtv> But is the caching necessary?  Summing the template message counts for a package shouldn't be too costly.
[17:23] <jtv> (As long as you don't go doing it in python)
[17:24] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: the problem occurs because the +needs-packaging page sums the message counts for each sourcepackage and then sorts the sourcepackages based on that.
[17:24] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: SQL-side or python-side?
[17:24] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: it's summed in sql
[17:25] <jtv> Oh, it's the old "sort before you batch" problem?
[17:25] <jtv> Where you don't have any performance problems thanks to batching, _except_ determining the order to batch in scales really badly with overall table size?
[17:26] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: I'm assuming that there are multiple POTemplates per sourcepackage, since we are using a subquery. If it was one-to-one, we could join instead.
[17:27] <jtv> Well you can still left-join—it's just a question of how costly that is.
[17:27] <EdwinGrubbs> does the message count typically change more than once a day for each sourcepackage? If not, a daily cronjob would actually be more db intensive.
[17:28] <jtv> Unless we pick out only the templates that _have_ changed.
[17:28] <jtv> A message queue would be ideal, but timestamps would do it as well.
[17:28] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: are you saying it's either 1-to-1 or 1-to-0? I thought it was 1-to-many, which a left-join wouldn't help.
[17:28]  * EdwinGrubbs feels like I'm talking about world cup scores.
[17:30] <jtv> It's one-to-many... but you can still "group by"
[17:31] <jtv> select sourcepackagename.id, sum(messagecount) from sourcepackagename join potemplate on potemplate.sourcepackagename = sourcepackagename.id group by sourcepackagename.id;
[17:35] <EdwinGrubbs> jtv: how is POTemplate.date_last_updated updated? I don't see a trigger, and the POTemplate class doesn't seem to do it automatically or in importFromQueue().
[17:38] <rinze> jtv: I've pushed an updated version of my branch
[17:39] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: in POTFileImporter
[17:39] <jtv> rinze: cool, thanks... I'll get on it in a minute
[17:41] <jtv> rinze: in ll.66—67, could you capitalize and punctuate the error string?
[17:42] <jtv> EdwinGrubbs: so it is up-to-date, though it may be python-side time rather than database-side time.  But I guess that could be fixed if needed.
[17:42] <rinze> rinze, yep
[17:42] <jtv> rinze: you're talking to yourself again :)
[17:43] <rinze> doh
[17:43] <jtv> rinze: anyway, with that one remark, I'm approving.  Please give me a moment to document.
[17:47] <jtv> rinze: done
[17:47] <rinze> jtv: thanks!
[17:47] <jtv> np
[17:47]  * jtv is about done
[17:56] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs: Can I add a branch to your queue? It's a simple one to fix the merge of stable into db-devel
[17:57] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: sure
[17:58] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jelmer/launchpad/stable-fix/+merge/28912
[18:11] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: this branch appears to have a lot more than resolved conflicts. Is there another branch that was already reviewed but never landed?
[18:12] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs: It merges stable into db-devel so it's got all the other changes from stable as well
[18:15] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs: I don't have much experience fixing these sorts of merges, I wonder what the best way is to present these changes for review.
[18:19] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: it's a good idea to add a comment to the mp which shows just the two files that you had to modify.
[18:23] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, the two files are lib/lp/soyuz/{configure.zcml,model/archive.py}
[18:30] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: what editor do you use?
[18:30] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, vi
[18:32] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze:  your branch contains an unusual amount of dangling whitespace and tab-characters as opposed to spaces. Most of us have vi or emacs configured to highlight these. See https://dev.launchpad.net/UltimateVimPythonSetup
[18:33] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: the most import configs are
[18:33] <EdwinGrubbs> highlight WhitespaceEOL ctermbg=red guibg=red
[18:33] <EdwinGrubbs> match WhitespaceEOL /\s\+$/
[18:33] <EdwinGrubbs> and
[18:34] <EdwinGrubbs> setlocal list listchars=tab:>~,trail:*
[18:35] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, thanks
[18:35] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: actually, setlocal should be just 'set' unless it is called from a command that checks the filetype of each newly opened file.
[18:39] <EdwinGrubbs> rinze: btw, at the very bottom of that wiki page there is a branch that I made that incorporates almost all the configs, so you don't have to copy and paste or download dependencies.
[18:52] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, thanks for the review
[18:52] <rinze> EdwinGrubbs, and thanks for the hint about the vim config branch, I'll have a look at it sometime
[19:16] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, could you please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/fix-stuck/+merge/28924 ?
[19:19] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: sure
[19:35] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: looking at the .bzrignore, it seems odd that the source package files would be placed directly in the lib/canonical/ directory and not in a subdirectory.
[19:36] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, IME, building a package places the files in the parent directory.
[19:36] <EdwinGrubbs> oh, I see, you didn't want to have two levels of temp directories.
[19:38] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: it also seems like SourcePackageRecipeBuildManager.initiate() would benefit from adding assert isinstance(self.author_name, unicode) so you get an early warning if None or a str is passed in.
[19:42] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, how would that be a benefit?
[19:45] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: well, it would only catch tests that initialize the object without running it. I'm not sure if that is even plausible.
[19:52] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: r=me
[19:53] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, thanks!
[20:49] <abentley> rockstar, could you please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/process-upload-no-cwd/+merge/28682 ?
[20:53] <rockstar> abentley, ack
[22:37] <bdmurray> leonardr: my mp is ready for re-review
[22:44] <leonardr> bdmurray: ok, i'll get to it tomorrow morning. remind me if i don't get to it
[22:46] <bdmurray> leonardr: okay thanks
[23:24] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: I didn't see your branch in the queue. I can do it later today.
[23:29] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs, okay


[12:06] <alourie|work> hello
[12:57] <alourie|work> I'd like to find out what is the status of qa.ubuntu.com. What is its purpose in the grand scheme of ubuntu things?
[13:01] <alourie|work> it seems that all QA activity is managed through QA wiki, not qa.u.com
[18:18] <persia> alourie|work: qa.ubuntu.com contains some Cqanonical-hosted QA resources.  Mostly tracking systems and automation coordination.  Team organisation is documented in the wiki.


 https://hackaday.com/2018/06/22/linux-fu-the-great-power-of-make/
 Found on reddit if someone wants a source. Thought it was neat
 It is sad that so few are encrypting the disk
 I was a bit worried about the default encryption option even though I use it
 I thought it had been compromised
 @govatent, Even if it was compromised, it is better than nothing
 True
 Go USA!  Most popular country for Ubuntu.
 @AdamOutler, Wow, didn't expect that honestly lol
 Oh @RazPi - You wanted to know the names of the fittings on the 3D printer - https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?url=search-alias=industrial&field-keywords=PC4-M6&linkCode=ll2&tag=geeksurvival-20&linkId=f368ba1a401bd000d991c26e68ef2e5d
 That was me.  Wow, they are called pneumatic fittings.  I would think there was a different nomenclature for something that transfers plastic instead of pressurized air.
 @KMyers Those don't fit my printer I bought both the black and the blue ones :(
 @RazPi, I think we may need to make some modifications to yours. Sounds like a weekend project
 Ooh I like the sound of that
 It's been hard to move forward with FreeCAD without a working printer
 @RazPi, http://www.soliforum.com/topic/15273/howto-convert-da-vinci-jr-to-ramps-14/
 Ohh I see now
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYtbnTGVoQY


[22:30] <EgyParadox> Hello, I need to restore my cloak: https://launchpad.net/~omohsen , Thanks.
[22:31]  * housecat ponders
[22:33] <housecat> EgyParadox: please update your Launchpad description (on the page https://launchpad.net/~omohsen/+edit ) to include the text "Hi I request a cloak for the account EgyParadox" and let me know when done.
[22:33] <housecat> You can delete it again once I've seen it.
[22:38] <housecat> perfect, thank you
[22:38] <housecat> one sec while i find someone to apply the cloak
[22:40] <EgyParadox> Done
[22:41] <housecat> EgyParadox: cloak done :)
[22:42] <EgyParadox> Thanks!
[23:35] <Unit193> I remember that nick, I think I sent him a memo.


[12:42] <noel_> khjsjkgfs
[13:51] <cjohnston> mornin
[13:57] <jussi01> cjohnston: have you any python skills?
[13:57] <cjohnston> I can spell it and i have three books so i can learn it
[13:57] <cjohnston> and a desire
[13:57] <cjohnston> heh
[13:58] <jussi01> ahh, that sounds perfect :D
[18:52] <tsimpson> fwiw, #ubuntu-irc and this channel _do_ have different purposes, this channels is for discussion/interaction for/with the people giving support in channels, #ubuntu-irc is for operator support
[18:53] <tsimpson> discussion of how support is going in #ubuntu would be offtopic in -irc, but not here
[18:53] <tsimpson> -irc can and should be used more, but not for the same purpose of this channel
[19:02] <rww> tsimpson: In my scrollback for this channel, I see stuff that would fit fine in #ubuntu-offtopic, meta-discussion about this channel (that wouldn't exist if we didn't have it), multiple support questions that belong in #ubuntu, and a discussion of Metabot. It's my (of course, less informed than some) opinion that the purpose of #ubuntu-irc could be expanded somewhat without damaging its
[19:02] <rww> usefulness.
[19:02] <tsimpson> sure, but this is still a new channel
[19:03] <tsimpson> the main purpose if it is for co-ordination for the support team
[19:03] <tsimpson> which would not be useful in -irc and probably disrupted in -ot
[19:04] <rww> I've been helping on and off in #ubuntu for about a year. I can't remember a time when I've wished there was a channel for coordinating #ubuntu support because I needed something that couldn't be dealt with in -ot or -ops.
[19:04] <erUSUL> i said it here and in the mailing list. imho having both -irc and this channel is duplication for no gain. a single channel is enough
[19:05] <rww> I understand that the channel is new, but it seems that thusfar, there doesn't seem to be a particularly large demand for it from others, either.
[19:05] <erUSUL> but that's just imho
[19:05] <jussi01> A channel doesnt get its purpose working in a week or 2, it takes sometime more.
[19:07] <rww> Was this channel created because of community demand for it? Or because there's a general view that it's needed? Or because someone decided "maybe this would be a cool idea"?
[19:07] <rww> (I'm not a neophobe, the last alternative is valid, I'm just curious)
[19:07] <erUSUL> anyway it is comforting to see that the feedback others (the potencial users of both channels being an op in #ubuntu-es and perhaps the oldest helpper of #ubuntu) and me are giving is just redirected to /dev/null
[19:10] <jussi01> erUSUL: no, feedback isnt getting redirected to dev/null, its just we want to explain to you the reasons we feel differently.
[19:11] <erUSUL> jussi01: i've heard not a single reason why merging the two channels would be such a bad idea
[19:12] <erUSUL> jussi01: you create the channel. decree what is offtopic in what channel. disregard any complain just saying this is offtopic here this is offtopic there ?
[19:14] <tsimpson> the channels serve different purposes
[19:15] <tsimpson> -irc is not for support co-ordination, -irc-helps is not for operator issues
[19:17] <erUSUL> tsimpson: ok; running again in circles. i know what you want the channels to be for. Again what is so wrong about having a channel for support co-ordination *and* for loco operators issues. too much traffic? you must be jocking
[19:17] <rww> Bot discussion and operator issues are different issues, we should create #ubuntu-bot-support for dealing with ubottu clones. Neither is getting cloaks, we need #ubuntu-cloaks. Arguing that #ubuntu-irc is only for operator issues is disingenous, because its scope can easily be changed.
[19:17] <tsimpson> erUSUL: because things get confused, operator issues and support issues going on at the same time
[19:18] <erUSUL> tsimpson: maybe you are worried about an unmanegable topic size XXDD
[19:18] <tsimpson> the support team deserve a channel, rather than shoving them into another channel
[19:19] <tsimpson> rww: and we do have #ubuntu-bots, #ubuntu-bots-team and #ubuntu-bots-devel
[19:19] <tsimpson> and we can always move cloak requests to #ubuntu-irc-council
[19:19] <tsimpson> as they are the only ones who can deal with cloak requests
[19:20] <erUSUL> ok is clear that a decission has been made by the ones that can make it. i wont waste more time in this
[19:20] <erUSUL> i do not see any helper here anyway
[19:20] <tsimpson> this channel is new, we'll bring more people here
[19:21] <rww> Again, as someone who would presumably be part of that support team, I haven't personally ever seen a need for a channel, and haven't seen others expressing the need for one.
[19:21] <rww> tsimpson: Exactly, you can change #ubuntu-irc's scope one way, and you can change it the other way too. That's my point :)
[19:22] <tsimpson> when supporting >1000 people, you don't think co-ordination is needed?
[19:22] <tsimpson> more than 1000 in multiple channels
[19:22] <jussi01> this channel isnt just for #ubuntu
[19:23] <rww> tsimpson: Not that I've seen, no. The support "team" is composed of individuals, the majority of which are clued in to what to do. Those that aren't generally either learn quickly (before they'd find this channel, probably) or get pointed the right way in PM.
[19:24] <tsimpson> you could apply that method to the motu, most would know what to do, those that don't learn quickly. but having a channel for co-ordination makes things much easier
[19:24] <tsimpson> being an active support giver will be one way to get an ubuntu membership, so we do need to monitor supporters more
[19:25]  * erUSUL ¬.¬
[19:25] <rww> tsimpson: The barrier to entry for MOTU is much higher than the barrier to entry for supporting in #ubuntu.
[19:25] <tsimpson> rww: not really, just knowledge
[19:26] <tsimpson> and having a place where people can ask support-specific questions (not support questions), helps people become better support givers and helps to give people a sense of community
[19:27] <tsimpson> they won't just be a bunch of separate individuals, who happen to give support. they'll be a group who can interact with each other and discuss issues that matter to them
[19:27] <rww> tsimpson: Yes, MOTU involves a lot more knowledge, which is not gained through ordinary usage of Ubuntu like most support knowledge is, and which is highly technical and specific in nature.
[19:29] <rww> tsimpson: I'm not sure that answering questions is complicated enough to require support-specific questions. If you know the answer to a question, you answer it. If you don't, you leave it for someone else. If nobody answers it, Metabot does a reasonable job of catching that.
[19:29] <rww> If I wanted a sense of community, that's what #ubuntu-offtopic is for.
[19:29] <tsimpson> some people are better MOTUs than others, they share that knowledge and experience and everyone benefits
[19:30] <tsimpson> the same can be for people who give support
[19:30] <rww> well, apart for being a dumping ground for stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere. which is only going to get worse by moving meta-support discussion from it.
[19:32] <rww> tsimpson: What knowledge and experience? I can measure the number of things I'd tell a potential #ubuntu person on one hand, and apart from #ubuntu-meta, they're all easily discoverable through watching #ubuntu for a couple of hours.
[19:32] <tsimpson> giving support in our channels is as valuable and substantial a contribution as packaging/developing, why should they be shoved into another channel and sidelined?
[19:32] <rww> Because packaging and developing require much more coordination than support does.
[19:34] <tsimpson> and the packaging and development teams have lots of channels
[19:34] <tsimpson> we're only creating one
[19:35] <jussi01> we are not creating #kubuntu-irc-helpers, #xubuntu-irc-helpers etc
[19:35] <rww> And I don't think it's necessary. You disagree, and I don't think we're going to change each others' minds, because this is based on perceptions, not facts.
[19:35] <tsimpson> time will tell if it will work or not
[19:36] <rww> indeed
[19:37] <jussi01> Thing is, I do beleive the support can be done better than it is being done now.. this channel is aimed at making it better
[19:42] <rww> jussi01: What's the status of this channel, anyway? The wiki page on it has UNAPPROVED DRAFT in huge letters, it doesn't appear to have been discussed on ubuntu-irc, and the IRC Council agenda is backlogged to say the least. Is it going to be discussed at some point before it's "approved", or did you (plural) decide to just create it now and be done with it?
[19:43] <rww> s/discussed on/discussed beforehand on/, I guess :)
[19:45] <jussi01> rww: the channel is approved, the wiki page isnt finished yeat, hence unapproved
[19:47] <rww> jussi01: makes sense. thanks for clarifying :)
[19:48] <jussi01> :)


[09:21] <kwwii> amazing...people now think that the bug tracker is for commentary
[09:21] <kwwii> "I represent all ubuntu users because I am an unbuntu user" - great statement
[09:22] <ziroday> kwwii: where?
[09:26] <kwwii> ziroday: in a bug report...no worries
[09:27] <ziroday> ah :)
[14:15] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-1.png
[14:15] <dashua> Some new murrine tweaks to human-murrine.  What do you think?
[14:40] <kwwii> dashua: what did you change?
[15:13] <zniavre> dashua:  icon theme is great what name it is please?
[15:38] <dashua> kwwii: I added the new new glazestyle=5 and lowered the contrast to .65 which gives a nice subtle look.  Also added GtkEntry::honors-transparent-bg-hint = 1 for  rounded entries in web pages.
[15:38] <dashua> zniavre: A combo of the Breathe Icon Set and whats missing from that is Human.
[15:53] <Nece228> im using murrine storm cloud right now
[15:53] <Nece228> it seems to be faster than other murrine themes
[16:15] <zniavre> dashua:  thank you
[16:17] <dashua> zniavre: Np :)
[16:34] <dashua> zniavre: Sorry, reboot new Nvidia drivers 177.80.  Working good :)
[16:35] <zniavre> still beta drivers ?
[16:53] <rsc-> hiiii
[16:58] <kwwii> howdy
[17:00] <kwwii> rsc-: just answered your email
[17:00] <rsc-> yeah, seeing what i can do about the colors
[17:01] <thorwil> tweaking earthen ibex?
[17:06] <rsc-> yep.
[17:06] <rsc-> on a side note, i managed to get some cumin today from the grocery store and 'adjusted' my leftover chili with it. :p
[17:07]  * rsc- now regrets making earthenibex waaayyy too messy
[17:07] <thorwil> adjusting chili with cumin is new to me
[17:07] <rsc-> "adjusting" meaning just reheating it and adding more spices to it
[17:08] <rsc-> (because I cooked it /without/ cumin)
[17:08] <rsc-> uploading a preview of the adjusted one now (with more gold-ish colors)
[17:08] <thorwil> =8-[]
[17:09] <rsc-> =8-[]?
[17:09] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/cave3.jpg
[17:09] <thorwil> rsc-: hair-big-eyes-mouth open-wide regarding cooked /without/ cumin
[17:10] <rsc-> haha.
[17:10] <rsc-> I didn't have any. :P
[17:10] <rsc-> (for the record, now i got more than enough)
[17:10] <rsc-> i thought it was in response to the comment about the gold color.
[17:10] <thorwil> that's not earthen ibex any longer. i like it better
[17:11] <rsc-> yeah. I'm not sure about the new additions right now though (the dust and the gems)
[17:11] <zniavre> it looks prehistorical (if the word is correct) i like it
[17:12] <thorwil> rsc-: where's the bg texture from?
[17:12] <rsc-> yeah, i think Kenneth was the one who was pointing towards the "cave painting" direction
[17:12] <thorwil> yes
[17:12] <rsc-> thorwil, layered from a few textures from cgtextures.com
[17:12] <rsc-> (crosses fingers that that'd be alright :()
[17:13] <rsc->  http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/cave2.jpg before adjustment
[17:13] <thorwil> rsc-: do they have any words about licenses on that sit?
[17:13] <rsc-> "No payment or royalties are required to use these Textures"
[17:13] <rsc-> "The use of Textures is non-exclusive, royalty free, and you have the right to modify them"
[17:13] <thorwil> rsc-: no doubt, the new one fits titlebar color better
[17:14] <rsc-> thorwil, titlebar color of human?
[17:14] <thorwil> rsc-: lacks a word about re-distribution. but i guess if no single texture can be made out in your image, it'Äs safe
[17:14] <thorwil> yes
[17:15] <thorwil> or any toned down orange
[17:15] <rsc-> thorwil, im just quoting snippets from their document
[17:15] <rsc-> i think theres a clause about it there
[17:15] <thorwil> ah found the page
[17:16] <rsc-> http://www.cgtextures.com/content.php?action=license
[17:16] <rsc-> yep.
[17:16] <rsc-> really nice resource site, jsut found it recently
[17:17] <thorwil> "Can I use these textures in my Open Source (Creative Commons, GPL, etc) project?
[17:17] <thorwil> No, unfortunately the textures cannot be used in Open Source projects because the licenses are not compatible. Allmost all Open Source licenses allow redistribution of the materials, which is not allowed for these textures."
[17:18] <rsc-> right
[17:18] <rsc-> hehe
[17:18] <rsc-> oh well.
[17:18] <thorwil> but that likely is about unmodified re-distribution
[17:18] <rsc-> yeah
[17:18] <rsc-> i think it's saying it in the context of including the unmodified file as, say, a 3d texture in a GPL'd piece of software
[17:20] <thorwil> yes
[17:21] <thorwil> rsc-: i'm not sure the gems will be understood as such, but they are a nice touch
[17:22] <rsc-> they made more sense when that area was darker (i.e., not on the one i showed), i was planning to do some sort of space-y abstract thing there
[17:22] <rsc-> but with the new color direction im not sure anymore
[17:24]  * thorwil sets as background
[17:24] <rsc-> ah whatever, i'll figure out where to go from here :)
[17:24] <rsc-> cool :)
[17:24] <thorwil> rsc-: human windows on top if it look almost cold in comparison
[17:25] <rsc-> cold?
[17:26] <thorwil> rsc-: yes. cave3 has a quite warm feel and the grey and muddy orange of the windows loose in that competition
[17:26] <rsc-> i was afraid of that.
[17:26] <rsc-> i just toned down the saturation a bit
[17:27] <thorwil> rsc-: now reducing saturation could fix that, but would also risk to make it drab. i would try to make it just a bit darker
[17:27] <rsc-> im just afraid of repeatnig the "way-too-dark" mistake of earthenibex
[17:28] <rsc-> hehe
[17:28] <thorwil> understandable
[17:28] <rsc-> i'll call it a night and do the adjustments tomorrow (its 12 midnight here) :)
[17:28] <thorwil> kwwii: is changing the titlebar color an option?
[17:28] <thorwil> rsc-: ooh, sleep you very well!
[17:33] <rsc-> who did the warty wallpaper?
[17:33] <rsc-> that looked nice.
[17:50] <Borzo> gidday
[18:07] <kwwii> thorwil: not really
[18:07] <kwwii> thorwil: we could change it slightly but not by very much
[18:08] <kwwii> in the meantime I spoke to mark about the themeing
[18:08] <kwwii> and he thinks that although we did say we would include something new we should wait until we have our new team together
[18:20] <kwwii> and with that, I will spend some time helping my son with his homework
[18:20] <kwwii> bbl
[18:38] <thorwil> hello Borzo
[19:01] <Borzo> hi thorwil
[20:55] <kwwii> thorwil: do you know of any way to subscribe to all the Kyūdō pages at once?
[20:55] <kwwii> I am subscribed to the main page, but that doesn't change much
[20:56] <thorwil> kwwii: no, have been wondering myself
[20:57] <thorwil> kwwii: i will post to the list about any more noteworthy edit/addition
[20:57] <thorwil> although opening all pages in tab to cycle through them and clicking subscribe everywhere doesnt take long :)
[20:59] <kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I'll do that in the end, just thought I should ask first
[21:00] <kwwii> I am not the wiki-king in any sense
[21:00]  * kwwii doesn't like wikis (but don't tell anyone)
[21:01] <thorwil> hmm, didn't use wikis much before. it's a good tool for this
[21:05] <kwwii> I was born before the days of computers...been thinking about getting a t-shirt that says "I hate emails"
[21:05] <thorwil> lol
[21:06] <thorwil> just added a section "Means to Express the Message" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Message
[21:07] <thorwil> all other edits already on the ML
[21:07] <thorwil> good night!
[21:07] <kwwii> night man, sleep well
[21:07] <kwwii> see you soon


[18:36] <harmw> harlowja_away: those timeouts I got from neutron/nova are probably comming from my controller beeing utter crap
[18:36] <harmw> keystone couldn't keep up on this old Atom
[18:36] <harmw> I've now moved it to something a little more powerfull, and things suddenly got better :)


[08:13] <NCommander> How long after a package enters dep-wait will it clear once its dependencies are available
[08:14] <NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19414431/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.alsa-plugins_1.0.18-1ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz - this build log is extremely puzzling
[08:59] <geser> NCommander: why should it leave DEPWAIT?
[08:59] <NCommander> geser, LP to my knowledge clears things that are actually dep-wait on its own
[08:59] <NCommander> Am I wrong?
[09:00] <NCommander> (the status is MANUALDEPWAIT)
[09:00] <geser> that's correct
[09:00] <NCommander> maybe I'm not following you
[09:00] <geser> but amd64-libs is not available
[09:01] <geser> perhaps I did get your question/your problem
[09:01] <NCommander> oooh
[09:01]  * NCommander only looked at amd64's depwait
[09:01] <NCommander> d'oh
[09:02] <NCommander> hrm
[09:02] <NCommander> amd64-libs did exist
[09:02] <NCommander> Then it vanished
[09:02] <NCommander> Strange
[09:03] <geser> for amd64 is easy: alsa-plugins (main) vs ia32-libs (universe)
[09:03] <NCommander> ia32-libs is not in main?
[09:03] <NCommander> oh
[09:03] <NCommander> Ok
[09:03] <geser> looks like the build-dependencies need an update for at least i386 and amd64
[09:03] <NCommander> ok
[09:03]  * NCommander fails
[09:03] <geser> ia32-libs is not in main according to LP: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs
[09:04] <NCommander> Yeah
[09:04] <NCommander> I would have swore it was
[09:04] <NCommander> Odd
[09:04] <geser> till dapper is was in main
[09:04] <NCommander> How did lib32asound2-dev then get built
[09:04] <NCommander> if ia32-libs is in universe
[09:05] <geser> without checking I guess with the needed lib32* libs
[09:05] <geser> or lib64 libs
[09:05] <geser> amd64-libs is on the sync-blacklist
[09:05] <NCommander> ia32 libs will not be installed out of the box
[09:05] <NCommander> I mean they are physically not installed
[09:06] <NCommander> It might be saner to do a promotion of ia32-libs to main
[09:06] <geser> I mean the biarch packages like lib32asound2
[09:06] <geser> or lib32z1
[09:06] <NCommander> Oh I see
[09:07] <geser> I doubt the archive admins want it back in main
[09:07] <NCommander> ok
[09:07] <NCommander> so alsa-plugins actually needs fixing
[09:07] <NCommander> The 32 bit fix is clear
[09:07] <NCommander> I have no idea how to fix building the 64 varients
[09:08] <NCommander> hrm
[09:08] <geser> there are lib64* variants of some packages
[09:08] <NCommander> ok
[09:08] <NCommander> I give
[09:08] <NCommander> alsa-plugins is not depending on ia32
[09:09] <NCommander> *ia32-libs
[09:09]  * NCommander begins working backwards
[09:09] <NCommander> oh wait
[09:09] <NCommander> nm
[09:09] <NCommander> found it
[09:10] <geser> check which 32bit packages it needs on amd64 and if they exist in a lib32 version
[09:10] <NCommander> geser, they are listed in the control file oddly enough
[09:11] <NCommander> (both are)
[09:11] <NCommander> what was the bug number?
[09:11] <geser> bug number?
[09:12] <NCommander> there was a bug that pointed me to that build failure
[09:12] <NCommander> I forgot I posted the log :-)
[09:14]  * NCommander tweaks his build environment to build only in main/restricted
[09:15] <NCommander> apachelogger, ping
[09:16] <NCommander> StevenK, ScottK: ping
[09:30] <NCommander> ENEEDCOREDEV
[09:40] <persia> NCommander, Are you seeking advice or an upload?
[09:41] <NCommander> persia, the later
[09:42]  * NCommander has created and built tested the fix patch in main-only pbuilder instances
[09:42] <persia> NCommander, Just subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors then.  Shouldn't be too long.
[09:42] <NCommander> did
[09:42] <persia> And it's time critical because?
[09:44] <NCommander> upgrading pulse audio uninstalls other packages, and removes the -desktop packages?
[09:44] <persia> And you've marked the relevant bug critical?
[09:44] <NCommander> High
[09:44] <persia> I'd bump it, based on breaking the default installation for a majority of users.
[09:44] <NCommander> I thought critical was only for violations, or serve risk of data/security lose and issues
[09:45]  * persia checks
[09:45]  * NCommander finds Ubuntu's priorities are at best a little loosely defined
[09:45] <persia> Critical: A bug which has a severe impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users
[09:45] <NCommander> Works for me
[09:45]  * NCommander bumps
[09:46] <persia> So it'll probably be one of the first things that any of the main sponsors hits.
[09:46]  * NCommander did mark the urgency critical in the changelog so it will take relatively little time to build
[09:46] <persia> That said, the number of jaunty users currently is small, and all of them are expected to be able to deal with breakage of that sort, so a day or so won't hurt, really.
[09:47] <persia> In the changelog you'd be better off with "medium".  It sorts before others, but still lets someone push something truly critical (like a key toolchain bug or something) in front of it.
[09:47] <NCommander> The toolchain will go first anyway
[09:47] <NCommander> the kernel and the toolchain are scored so they are built a moment a builder is together
[09:48] <NCommander> From the way I understand
[09:48] <NCommander> for packages without explicate build scores
[09:48] <persia> Well, OK, but still.  Using "critical" means there's no flexibility.  "medium" would have the same relative effect, and leave flexibility.
[09:49] <NCommander> So I should kill the patch and reupload?
[09:49] <wgrant> Does urgency actually matter in Ubuntu?
[09:49] <NCommander> wgrant, it actually affects the build score
[09:49] <NCommander> The way I understand it, if a package isn't scored explicately (i.e., kernel, toolchain), it starts at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 for main, restricted, universe, multiverse
[09:50] <NCommander> (I'd guess parther is 5000 if there is anything built from source there)
[09:50] <NCommander> Then a number (its either 1 or 5 if I understand correctly) is added for each queued build
[09:50] <NCommander> so if there are two queued packages for main, its 1005 and 1010 respectively
[09:50] <persia> wgrant, Only a very little, and only within an otherwise identical set.
[09:51] <NCommander> Urgency bumps the build score by ten per level of urgency set
[09:55]  * NCommander notes that might not be 100% correct
[10:40] <NCommander> ScottK, & jdong: http://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/11d7ba7d3a88a605 - care to weigh in on this?
[10:40] <wgrant> NCommander: Erm, wrong URL?
[10:41] <NCommander> oops
[10:41] <NCommander> http://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/11d7ba7d3a88a605
[10:41] <NCommander> argh
[10:41] <NCommander> Bug #295495
[10:41] <NCommander> there
[11:18] <edson> hi. after the upgrade that following packages: libgphoto2-2 (2.4.0-8ubuntu7) to 2.4.0-8ubuntu8
[11:18] <edson> libgphoto2-port0 (2.4.0-8ubuntu7) to 2.4.0-8ubuntu8, the web pics on firefox cant be seeing. some one can help?
[11:47] <cjwatson> NCommander: it's five per level of urgency set; doesn't make a whole lot of difference though since that's less than most other factors
[11:47] <NCommander> cjwatson, oh, I thought it was ten
[11:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: for comparison five minutes in the queue gets you a credit of 5, 15 minutes gets you a credit of 10, 30 minutes a credit of 15 ... being in main vs. universe grants 1000 vs. 250
[11:48] <cjwatson> etc.
[11:48] <NCommander> Ah
[11:48] <NCommander> Cool
[11:48] <cjwatson> I look forward to LP being open source so that we can just stick a URL to the relevant code in some documentation :)
[11:50] <Hobbsee> oh, neat.
[11:54] <NCommander> cool
[11:54] <NCommander> LP internals
[11:54] <NCommander> Build scores probably should be doc'ed somewhere
[11:54] <StevenK> The numbers themselves mean very little
[14:53] <ScottK> NCommander: I know backports.org backports debhelper regularly with no issues.  Since it only affects building packages, not using them, I think it's worth considering.
[15:14] <DeadPanda> hey, just wondering if DKMS would throw a fit if it replaced a module already in the kernel?  (I need a newer uvcvideo than that available in Intrepid for this laptop)
[15:17] <superm1> DeadPanda, as long as the kernel module isn't compiled as "part" of the kernel (eg not modular), it would be fine
[15:18] <DeadPanda> superm1: thanks
[15:18] <\sh> moins
[15:40] <Pelo> morning folks I think something is broken in the envyng packages,
[15:41] <tseliot> Pelo: what exacty?
[15:41] <Pelo> envyng-gtk install , along iwth common, but when I run envyng-g it wants  me to install envyng-qt , which I do and then it seems to install a full kde , very unnessary , just tought I would let you know
[15:41] <Pelo> never did that in hardy
[15:42] <tseliot> Pelo: the gtk ui wasn't ready therefore you will have to use either the qt ui or the textual ui
[15:42] <Pelo> tseliot, understood , thanks
[15:45] <superm1> cjwatson, is there a particular reason that laptop-detect casper and lupin casper aren't just in the live task, but instead explicitly listed in livecd-rootfs?
[17:43] <emgent> heya
[18:09] <jdong> NCommander: backporting debhelper 7 is outside my scope of comfort, I think ScottK should answer your question :)
[18:10] <ScottK> jdong: Since -release can't build against -backports and debhelper is only relevant to the build process, I think it should be fine.
[18:10] <ScottK> debhelper is one package where if it wasn't backwards compatible a huge amount of stuff would have blown up and we'd know it.
[18:11] <ScottK> There's an etch-backport of debhelper 7 if that's any comfort.
[18:29] <jdong> ScottK: alright, that sounds safe to me then
[18:30] <ScottK> Safe in the scheme of backports safe, yes.
[18:49] <X3> hi everyone
[18:49] <X3> please dont hate me
[18:49] <X3> |18:33:58| (X3) off topic question Im looking for skilled coders both windows and linux for new projects hardware manipulation/embedded systems/some web coders with knowledge of current standards other skills necessary these are opensource projects that will be be using some existing sourcecode most of it is really done just needs modifying/updating/adding features to suit the wip concept...
[18:49] <X3> |18:34:00| (X3) no reinventing of the wheel just making it current running better and target a large audience immediatly available to use programs in both projects please message me with contact detail @ http://x3webworx3.spaces.live.com/ any help even finding interested coders even students are welcome. thank you...
[18:50] <X3> |18:38:31| (X3) http://www.xps-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88&goto=newpost
[18:50] <X3> |18:39:11| (X3) http://www.xps-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87&goto=newpost
[18:51] <X3> that contains more information about project that may give you an idea many new laptop users could benefit os both that wish to dual boot linux and windows
[18:51] <X3> not just Dell laptops but all laptops
[19:04] <X3> no ok
[19:30] <emgent> someone know in that package is lzm2dir ?
[19:30] <emgent> s/that/what/
[19:44] <ScottK> emgent: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/how-do-i-decompress-lzm-files-586399/
[19:45] <emgent> saw that danke :)
[20:55]  * jdong questions mail-notification's "sent: about 41 minutes ago" field.
[20:55] <jdong> is that really rough enough an approximation to require wording it that way? :)
[21:35] <Kopfgeldjaeger> do-release-upgrade stops when /var/lib/update-notifier/ doesnt exist (when update-notifier isnt installed..). but that's probably not that important because afaik you should install ubuntu-desktop before upgrading.(?)
[21:37] <Kopfgeldjaeger> [the same with /var/games]
[22:15]  * soren notes that the trigger related stuff is missing from Debian/Ubuntu Policy.. How odd.
[22:16] <liw> is it a policy issue?
[22:16] <soren> The policy lists all the ways in which maintainer scripts can be called.
[22:17] <soren> Err...
[22:17] <soren> The policy lists all the ways in which maintainer scripts can be called except the trigger related ones.
[22:17] <soren> Chapter 6.
[22:17] <liw> oh, I didn't know triggers involve calling maintainer scripts in special ways
[22:18] <soren> How would you? It doesn't say in the debian policy :)
[22:22] <ion_> Documentation often lags behind code. :-)
[22:24] <liw> http://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2007/04/msg00076.html -- right, that does specify that the postinst takes care of triggers
[22:24] <liw> soren, you should perhaps file a bug against the debian-policy package in the Debian bug tracking system
[22:25] <soren> Yes, I should.
[22:33] <ScottK> But the entertainment value would probably be higher if you could get Ian Jackson to file the bug.
[22:35] <Cheery> hi
[22:36] <Cheery> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/275207/python-ctypes-and-function-calls
[22:37] <Cheery> I'd like to know how to disable no-execution -flag for my heap
[22:38] <Cheery> Q9550 seems to have such retarded feature
[22:38] <soren> ScottK: :)
[23:47] <click170> Howcome irb in Hardy isn't compiled with --readline ?
[23:49] <click170> *hangs head in shame* nm, found it


[02:26] <erickLee> is it advantageous to create a native calender application for ubuntu?
[16:18] <Bluefoxicy> has anyone seen NixOS?
[16:42] <SuperEngineer> Bluefoxicy: soory - haven'yt even seen NixON ;)
[16:53] <Bluefoxicy> heh
[17:33] <Bluefoxicy> I'm trying to figure out if it would take a lot of work to get dpkg/apt aware enough to mimic Nix
[17:33] <Bluefoxicy> specifically, NOT including any of that behavior
[17:33] <Bluefoxicy> just able to be prodded into it
[17:34] <Bluefoxicy> I'd rather write something like that as an external plug-in and not break  Debian for the rest of us; and Nix proper is insane.


[02:53] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r537 Make Thunar-Gtk3 look backdrop-ish when losing focus... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[09:49] <ochosi> flocculant: apart from the features you've been discussing with bluesabre recently for pa-plugin, do we know about any regressions/problems with the updated apps from qa-staging in bionic?
[09:49] <ochosi> just so i know if i should try to tackle anything specific before christmas
[09:50] <ochosi> would be nice to get as much as possible from staging -> archive as soon as possible and then think about whether there's anything to promote from qa-experimental -> qa-staging
[09:51] <flocculant> not that I'm aware of - I've at least used the 3 new apps, all appear to work ok - not remembering any sort of visual thing jumping out at me
[09:53] <ochosi> kewl
[09:53] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - winning that fight now - some libkey package was in autoremovable, reinsalled build-deps for pa-plugin and did it all again.
[09:54] <flocculant> bluesabre: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26103403/
[09:54] <flocculant> ochosi: no problem :)
[09:54] <ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: Any thoughts/stoppers from your side to just promote the things we have kept in qa-staging to the archive? as there have been no obvious stoppers i'd like to get as many testers as possible asap and pushing them would help. we can also subsequently discuss if anything from experimental shall be promoted to staging
[09:55] <flocculant> bluesabre: also I found that sometimes when I was restarting the panel, the icon wasn't grey during this mucking about
[09:56] <ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: btw, having the 4.13 panel in experimental would be helpful
[09:57] <Unit193> ochosi: There's nothing to push, they're all backports.
[09:57] <flocculant> ochosi: the things in qa-staging are only for artful afaik
[09:57] <flocculant> ha ha
[09:58] <ochosi> hah
[09:59] <ochosi> noice
[09:59]  * ochosi slaps himself
[09:59] <flocculant> ochosi: btw - got an issue with (I assume xfdesktop4) where I lose a bunch of right click 'stuffs' on desktop, open terminal here for instance
[10:02] <Unit193> xubuntu_migrate-tasklist-separator.patch
[10:02] <Unit193> looks like it can go away.
[10:03] <ochosi> Unit193: yes, that's an old one
[10:03] <ochosi> we don't need that from the previous LTS anymore
[10:03] <ochosi> so it can go
[10:03] <ochosi> flocculant: with xfdesktop 4.13?
[10:04] <flocculant> ochosi: from the ppa yep
[10:05] <ochosi> may be a problem with garcon
[10:05] <ochosi> i vaguely remember some issues with that
[10:05] <flocculant> thought I'd reported it - seems not
[10:23] <ochosi> would be good if you could give a detailed account on what changed exactly
[10:23] <ochosi> so i can try to reproduce and debug that a little
[10:23] <flocculant> ochosi: ack
[10:23] <ochosi> (i personally only use xfdesktop to show the wallpaper...)
[10:24] <flocculant> I have a few things on desktop
[10:42] <flocculant> ochosi: now I can't remember what I used to do before :D
[10:43] <flocculant> been so long since I lost it
[10:44] <flocculant> iirc - right click on folder on desktop used to be able to open terminal here, but don't see it in vm of bionic either
[11:10] <ochosi> flocculant: not sure whether that was ever there, that's a standard thunar thing though
[11:29] <flocculant> perhaps it's thunar then
[11:30] <flocculant> I know last cycle the behaviour changed
[11:58] <flocculant> Unit193: can't remember the reply now, possible to see what downloads have happened on a ppa? specifically the qa-staging one
[11:58] <flocculant> or bluesabre - or anyone else who happens to know :D
[12:05] <nueb> I would like some assistance in restoring the default greybird theme - i seem to have broken it
[12:06] <nueb> after editing the images in "/usr/share/themes/greybird/xfwm4", the window title bar is gone
[12:07] <nueb> i tried downloading greybird from its github and replacing the greybird folder with the latest github release, but the windowbar is still broken when choosing "greybird" in window manager
[12:07] <ochosi> nueb: that's easy, just sudo apt install greybird-gtk-theme --reinstall
[12:08] <ochosi> but this would also mean all your changes are gone
[12:08] <ochosi> if you want to effectively edit/work with the theme, i recommend you git clone greybird into ~/.themes and edit it there on a git branch
[12:08] <ochosi> then you'll also havev a clear diff and can reset more easily
[12:08] <ochosi> you can even name it differently so you can switch back and forth easil
[12:08] <ochosi> y
[12:13] <nueb> thank you guys so much. i appreciate the help
[12:14] <nueb> I'm not sure exactly where i went wrong. i only edited a couple of the .xpm files and deleted a couple of the .png files, in order to make the window corners flat and not rounded
[12:14] <nueb> and to remove the gradients
[19:57] <bluesabre> flocculant: Yeah, I've seen the icon initialized to grey a few times, seems to happen rarely, and goes away when hovering :\
[19:58] <bluesabre> I pushed a bunch of changes in the last 48 hours for playlist improvements, stability, and memory leaks... if you want to poke around
[19:58] <bluesabre> er... last week :D https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/log/
[20:16] <bluesabre> Planning to do another point release for the pa-plug today, and then I might have one more new thing to add to it this week before it's feature complete
[20:16] <Unit193> flocculant: Yeah, sort of.
[20:16] <bluesabre> Pretty good for the beginning of December :)
[20:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hellos.
[20:18] <bluesabre> Unit193: heya
[20:31] <Unit193> What's up doc?
[20:38] <bluesabre> Unit193: not much, just writing code and cleaning
[20:53] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - as far as playlists go - things I'm using currently don't appear to show them :
[20:54] <flocculant> p
[20:54] <flocculant> I do check - what the crack is with clementine though - seems to work ok here
[20:55] <flocculant> Unit193: ok - basically just wanted to know a number there if possible
[20:55] <Unit193> Yeah, pasting now.
[20:55] <flocculant> \o/
[20:56] <Unit193> flocculant: Numbers can be easily off, and don't forget that building counts too: http://paste.openstack.org/show/lm1lipFyg7ePKdbKdf9g
[20:57] <flocculant> some usage showing then perhaps
[21:09] <bluesabre> flocculant: so, no playlists show, or just clementine?
[21:09] <bluesabre> I've tested with rhythmbox and clementine, not sure what other apps support them
[21:21] <ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant: i fixed some issues in notifyd's state machine this week (read/unread states in DND or without), would be great if you could give it a spin
[21:26] <bluesabre> ochosi: will give that a shot this week
[21:26] <bluesabre> ochosi: likewise, if you want to shake the pa-plug down, that'd be helpful :)
[21:29] <ochosi> bluesabre: will shake, rattle and roll it
[21:30] <bluesabre> :D
[22:04] <bluesabre> knome: soooooo.... wallpaper contest?
[22:05] <knome> yes
[22:05] <knome> we need to set the rules
[22:06] <knome> there was some disagreey
[22:08] <bluesabre> Let me know if there's anything you need from me
[22:09] <knome> let me look at the ML thread quickly
[22:09] <knome> hmm
[22:09] <knome> i found a new place where i have to fix the logos
[22:09] <knome> the mailman stuff
[22:42] <knome> new email re: wallpaper contest sent