[00:07] <bloody`> hey guys ,my laptop just froze, xubuntu, does it in ubuntu, for no reason i know of.
[00:11] <thebear1331> hey maxamillion, do you know how to get fluxbox to prompt me to login as root when I try to use synaptic, like it does in XFCE?
[00:13] <ppe> Aargh.
[00:14] <ron_o> the bear, there's a command that brings up a gui when you want to login to root.. but I forget what that is.
[00:14] <bloody`> alt ctrl f7
[00:14] <ron_o> you'd need to create a link like that or type it in via 'run program'
[00:18] <zoredache> ron_o: gksu
[00:18] <ron_o> yah. :)
[00:18] <zoredache> gksu whatever...
[00:18] <ron_o> it's been awhile.
[00:19] <ppe> How to I format /dev/sdc as FAT32?
[00:19] <ppe> Or just format it in any way.'
[00:19] <ron_o> ppe you can either use gparted or you can look up the command for that.
[00:20] <ron_o> as long as your partition isn't mounted.
[00:20] <ppe> I'll check out gparted, I am having no luck with the commands.
[00:20] <ron_o> hehe, good enough.
[00:20] <ron_o> gparted is simple.
[00:20] <ppe> What? But if it isn't mounted, I can't see it ?
[00:20] <ron_o> you'll see it in gparted and you can see it in your terminal
[00:22] <ppe> Now I can't unmount it :/
[00:22] <ron_o> just type in $sudo cfdisk to see your partitions.
[00:22] <ron_o> you can't #umount /dev/sdc ??
[00:23] <ppe> Oh, umount.
[00:23] <ppe> I was spelling it correctly.
[00:23] <ron_o> you mean incorrectly. ;->
[00:23] <ron_o> just confusing ya.
[00:24] <Tu13es> anyone know how to change the DPI in xubuntu?
[00:25] <ppe> ron_o, it keeps saying that the device is busy.
[00:25] <ppe> Busy being annoying, that's what I say!
[00:25] <zoredache> you could simply rebot
[00:25] <zoredache> reboot*
[00:25] <ppe> true.
[00:25] <ron_o> it's busy if you are using the partition in any way.
[00:25] <ron_o> don't reboot.
[00:25] <ron_o> learn why it's busy.
[00:26] <ppe> Argh.
[00:26] <ppe> Wait.
[00:26] <ron_o> you could just be casually using your terminal and be in there.
[00:26] <ron_o> busy doesn't mean much.
[00:26] <ppe> That's what I thought.
[00:26] <ppe> But I'm not.
[00:26] <ron_o> you're in there somehow.
[00:26] <ron_o> close your terminal.
[00:27] <NBrepresent> Hi, when i start a movie in Totem, i get an error "The audio device is in use"
[00:27] <ron_o> close your file manaer.
[00:27] <NBrepresent> how do i test/check audio settings?
[00:27] <ppe> I clicked the x.
[00:27] <ppe> Are programs still running when I hit the 'x' ?
[00:27] <ron_o> you mean you closed the window?
[00:27] <zoredache> ppe:  if something got started in the background then yes, it is possible
[00:28] <ron_o> NBrepresent, I had the same problem until I looked up what to do to have multiple applications using your sound card.
[00:28] <ppe> NBrepresent, adding the 'Volume Control' thing in your Panel Bar, then right-clicking that to see what audio device the software is using.
[00:28] <ron_o> I haven't had that issue again.
[00:28] <ppe> ron_o, Yeah, I closed the window.
[00:28] <hackhalotwo> can WINE play win98 games?
[00:29] <ron_o> NBrepresent, if you were to logout and then log back in, you would cease to hvae that problem until something grabbed your sound card again and didn't let it go.
[00:29] <NBrepresent> the properties just says Device: default
[00:29] <zoredache> hackhalotwo: some, but you'll get a better answer in a wine channel/forum
[00:29] <ron_o> NBrepresent, have you ever had sound before?
[00:29] <NBrepresent> i haven't tested that yet
[00:29] <hackhalotwo> ok
[00:29] <NBrepresent> i'm just setting this comp up for the first time, sort of
[00:30] <ppe> Yeah, me too.
[00:31] <ron_o> ppe, did you start gparted yet?
[00:31] <ron_o> or you can't umount your partition?
[00:31] <Azalar_> anyone know why xfce-desktop would crash when you right click on it
[00:31] <ppe> I restarted, but I'll start it in a sec.
[00:32] <ppe> So where is gparted?
[00:32] <ppe> Actually, couldn't I just run it from console ?
[00:32] <Tu13es> hmm
[00:32] <Tu13es> my fonts all look bigger than they should
[00:32] <ron_o> you have to download gparted with synaptic.
[00:32] <Tu13es> I'm confused
[00:32] <ppe> ah, ok
[00:34] <Azalar_> why is xfce so flaky
[00:35] <NBrepresent> is there any kind of sound diagnostic package i can get?
[00:35] <ron_o> NBrepresent, not that I know of.
[00:35] <ron_o> I think I downloaded ALSA
[00:35] <ron_o> make sure you have the ALSA package.
[00:36] <NBrepresent> k
[00:36] <ron_o> IMHO< this shit should be taken care of to begin with.
[00:36] <NBrepresent> word!
[00:36] <ron_o> make sure your applications all use ALSA if they allow you to choose.
[00:36] <ron_o> Azalar_, I don't know if it's so flaky..
[00:36] <ron_o> however, it could be something else.
[00:37] <NBrepresent> does anyone know how to make drag and drop MOVE files instead of copy them?
[00:37] <ron_o> maybe you're hardware? don't know. Could be anything.
[00:37] <ron_o> NBrepresent, you can do that with your file manager.
[00:37] <ron_o> it's just like Windows.
[00:37] <NBrepresent> i couldn't find the preference for it
[00:37] <Azalar_> kubuntu same version runs without stuff crashing
[00:38] <zoredache> NBrepresent: drag and drop does move if both the source and dest are on the same volume I believe
[00:39] <NBrepresent> hm, maybe just not from the desktop then
[00:39] <NBrepresent> because i definitely can't drag and drop and move files from the desktop to, for example, my home folder
[00:39] <zoredache> but I have seen some inconsistancies here and there about when it chooses to move, and when it chosses to copy
[00:39] <NBrepresent> it copies, then i have to delete the one on the desktop
[00:39] <ron_o> Azalar_, sorry.. maybe you should stick with Kubuntu or Ubuntu.
[00:40] <zoredache> NBrepresent: if you hold down the shift key when dragging you should get the move effect though
[00:41] <Azalar_> got an old machine though so thought i'd give xubuntu a try, doesnt look like it was ready for release yet though, more like alpha software
[00:41] <ppe> Okay, I've formatted my 4GB USB Stick to FAT32.
[00:42] <zoredache> Azalar_: do you have a serious question or just a vague belief that is alpha?
[00:42] <ppe> Now I can't access it, and it says "3GB Removable Volume"
[00:43] <zoredache> ppe: how did you format it again?
[00:43] <ppe> With gparted
[00:44] <zoredache> and you made a partition, and formated the partition as fat32?
[00:44] <ppe> I took the entire flash-drive and pressed "format to > fat32".
[00:45] <zoredache> I believe he hal has filters that won't let you mount a file system that is directly on a device... I am pretty sure it expects you to have created partitions
[00:45] <zoredache> I know you wouldn't be able to mount it under windows if you didn't create a partition
[00:47] <Azalar_> yeah my question was why would xfce-desktop crash just by right clicking on it
[00:47] <ppe> My answer would be that it doesn't.
[00:47] <ppe> Let's agree to disagree ?
[00:47] <zoredache> Azalar_: obviously it shouldn't do that... as to 'why', there is probably a bug somewhere...
[00:50] <Azalar_> ok np, i'll give fluxbuntu a go instead, thanks anyway
[01:07] <hackhalotwo> is there a good Virtual Drive program for Linx?
[01:18] <hackhalotwo> dont answer that, i figured it out
[01:46] <NBrepresent> hey, i'm looking for sound card help if anyone's around? aplay -l gives "no soundcards found"
[02:24] <michaelkyle> hi how can i change my desktop resolution, i installed and i got 800x600 only and i cant change it, atleast trough "display" in Xfce desktop configuration
[02:24] <michaelkyle> i want to change it to 1024x768
[03:22] <michaelkyle> how come that in livecd xfce was entriely on spanish and now that i installed it is Spanglish.,.. :s
[03:23] <michaelkyle> more english than spanish imo
[03:35] <PlayBoy> Hi! I need help install compizfusion in xubuntu
[03:39] <ere4si> !compiz | PlayBoy
[03:39] <ubotu> PlayBoy: Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL) - Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager - help in #compiz-fusion
[03:39] <PlayBoy> Thanks
[03:39] <PlayBoy> =)
[03:39] <PlayBoy> I'm using xubuntu gutsy
[03:40] <PlayBoy> My grafic card is ati radeon 7000 QE/VE
[03:40] <PlayBoy> Drivers of my card is free
[03:41] <PlayBoy> I don't install drivers of my ati, x-server-org doesn't compatibility work
[03:49] <Thingus> Hey, I'm using Xubuntu Feisty on my laptop, and WiCD is giving me some GladeXML errors... I have the libs installed and everything, but I can't figure it out.
[03:54] <PlayBoy> Problems with network manager pc off ... =(
[03:54] <ere4si> !ati | PlayBoy
[03:54] <ubotu> PlayBoy: To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[03:57] <PlayBoy> ubotu: My card is free driver since feisty version...
[03:58] <PlayBoy> xubuntu is secure?
[05:45] <mib_ugq9w8qi> hello i need help installing limewire...
[05:45] <mib_ugq9w8qi> and also getting into root ..it wont allow me ...it wont accept my PW
[05:50] <mib_ugq9w8qi> is anybody here?
[06:24] <Thingus> Anyone know anything about conky?
[06:25] <nikolam> I have some trouble with writing speed to floppy disk
[06:25] <nikolam> and also with reading from external USB 2.0 HDD
[06:25] <nikolam> Since last few weeks it is extremely slow
[07:19] <MICHAELKYLE> hi, my usb headsets dont get any sound, yes i they appear on lsusb, and i set them in the sound control panel but i still cant hear anything, i think its a the usb sound module but i dont know to much about it, if someone could help me pls.
[07:21] <Thingus> For some reason, xfce4-panel is eating 98% of my CPU.
[07:21] <Thingus> What's up with that?
[07:22] <MICHAELKYLE> Thingus, try #xfce
[07:22] <MICHAELKYLE> seems noone knows aboutanything in here
[07:28] <Thingus> They were less than helpful... -.-
[07:33] <Thingus> Hrm... Restarted xfce4-panel.
[07:33] <Thingus> Now it works.
[07:48] <ellon> u guys r usin' xubuntu?
[07:49] <MICHAELKYLE> yes
[07:49] <MICHAELKYLE> well most i think
[07:53] <ellon> is any one using Intel video card? XVideo is a problem in xUbuntu
[08:04] <sonicreindeer> Good eve to all in this chat re: a broken bootloader with Feisty.
[08:05] <sonicreindeer> I am attempting to repair a broken Xubuntu Feisty system. I was testing a dual-boot scenario last evening within my Mac Jaguar partition while loading OS 9.2.2 on top of the desktop as a separate app( ie; running Classic on top of Jaguar ). Little did I realize how the Classic sys files overwrote the files within the bootloader in the MBR for me to access my Feisty drive separate from my Mac drive. Can't boot to Feisty
[08:06] <sonicreindeer> The specs of my box are as follows:  1st Generation G4/ 400 PPC( Sawtooth ) w/ 896 MB of RAM, a factory 20 Gig drive is running Jaguar w/ a separate 40 GB Maxtor running my beloved Feisty. Attempted the upgrade from feisty iinto Gutsy, but, my box didn't like it much.
[08:07] <sonicreindeer> I spent over three months configgin' Feisty the way I personally want for it to run. Although the upgrade has crossed my mind several times over, I'm keepin' Feisty. Convince me otherwise w/ the right ISO link w/ all of the first-run bugs worked out of Gutsy.
[08:08] <MICHAELKYLE> u... thats not good, i have no idea but if overwrites the files of mbr the most logical and i gues uve thought of that too, its to find a way of just reinstall the mbr of xubuntu
[08:08] <MICHAELKYLE> although i havent heard about such a thing ever :)
[08:09] <MICHAELKYLE> and btw, heres not the best place to ask hehe, ppl here  dont know about anything, copy all that and paste it on #ubuntu, theres more users there, and theyre more serious
[08:09] <sonicreindeer> I know. this is a first for me, as well. I was just using my box as a guinea pig, if you will, for a virtual dual-boot oon a client's G3/ 700 iMac.
[08:10] <sonicreindeer> Kewl. I'll just hop over there with my issue. Thank you kindly for the ear.
[08:11] <MICHAELKYLE> no problem ;)
[11:01] <trentster> hey all, bit of a strange problem,, probably something really simple....I am running combiz all is working well except for the little windows that shows the workspaces on the bottom right, dont show the open windows on each desktop, it just is black, and if I click on it, it shows all the windows. Also when I launch any program it is automatically minimized...any ideas?
[11:14] <TheSheep> !compiz
[11:14] <ubotu> Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL) - Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager - help in #compiz-fusion
[11:29] <trentster> hey all, bit of a strange problem,, probably something really simple....I am running combiz all is working well except for the little windows that shows the workspaces on the bottom right, dont show the open windows on each desktop, it just is black, and if I click on it, it shows all the windows. Also when I launch any program it is automatically minimized...any ideas?
[11:34] <TheSheep> !repeat
[11:34] <ubotu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://wiki.ubuntu.com while you wait. Also see !patience
[11:35] <TheSheep> trentster: try asking at the support channel for compiz
[12:45] <NBrepresent> hi, i'm on xubuntu and noticing that the help for gnome applications doesn't work... i guess i need a package (something like gnome-help) but i can't find anything like that in synaptic... what do i need to get help working for gnome apps?
[12:45] <TheSheep> NBrepresent: yelp
[12:45] <NBrepresent> k
[12:46] <NBrepresent> thanks
[13:01] <NBrepresent> also, i've noticed that gnome apps that try to set the desktop wallpaper cannot do it (i'm assuming because the apps are expecting that xfce is not managing the desktop) ... anything i can do about that?
[15:28] <steve__> hello is anybody here?
[16:06] <Skrat> Is there a compatibility list of computers for Xubuntu?
[16:22] <ArmyMan007> hello
[16:22] <ArmyMan007> can anyone help me please with Xubuntu?
[16:22] <Skrat> whats the problem
[16:22] <ArmyMan007> hi
[16:22] <Skrat> "Dont ask to ask"
[16:23] <Skrat> So yeah, whats up
[16:23] <ArmyMan007> I need some help about how to configure my network in Xubuntu
[16:23]  * Skrat backs away slowly
[16:23] <ArmyMan007> :P
[16:23]  * ArmyMan007 slaps Skrat around a bit with a large trout
[16:24] <Skrat> Lol, sorry. way over my head
[16:24] <ArmyMan007> "backs away slowly" kinda gave me the big idea...
[16:24] <ArmyMan007> lol
[16:24]  * Skrat grabs the trout and eats it
[16:24] <ArmyMan007> well
[16:25] <ArmyMan007> better get back there... l8er :D
[16:25] <Skrat> Cya. :P
[16:37] <Skrat> Anyway, bbiab.
[17:13] <artur__> hi folks, i have another computer next to me with the xubuntu in live cd mode cause i was going to install it. But the mouse doesn't work, it is an old mouse (cause it's an old pc), a serial one. How can i make this mouse works?
[17:16] <LeAstrale> artur__: unfortunately im unable to help you on that one :(
[17:17] <LeAstrale> any1 in here with some ideas for the man ?
[17:22] <Sekaab> Hello there
[17:29] <Sekaab> Hey again
[17:30] <Sekaab> is someone familiar with SecondLife under Xubuntu?
[17:30] <Sekaab> especially Sound and Voice Chat?
[17:33] <LeAstrale> Sekaab: nahh... cant help you on that one unfortunately
[17:34] <Sekaab> okay :)
[17:34] <Sekaab> isnt that importend
[17:34] <ArmyMan007> hello, can anyone help me with how to connect my other computer to the internet?
[17:35] <ArmyMan007> I need a step-by-step help...
[17:35] <ArmyMan007> hello, can anyone help me with how to connect my other computer to the internet?
[17:35] <ArmyMan007> I need a step-by-step help...
[17:36] <j1mc> ArmyMan007: your other computer?
[17:36] <Sekaab> hows your network configured?
[17:36] <Sekaab> you have one computer already connected?
[17:36] <ArmyMan007> sekaab -> I have a wireless network connection
[17:36] <ArmyMan007> I'm talking with you on the working computer
[17:36] <ArmyMan007> it's got XP\
[17:36] <ArmyMan007> the other one has the Xubuntu
[17:37] <ArmyMan007> I've just installed it today
[17:37] <ArmyMan007> and I need some help getting the internet up and running
[17:37] <Sekaab> so you use an wireless router that connects the internet?
[17:37] <ArmyMan007> yes
[17:37] <ArmyMan007> this computer (the one i'm talking with you) has the router
[17:38] <ArmyMan007> the other one has the reciever thingy...
[17:38] <Sekaab> is that router a box delivered by your ISP oder is it a seperate computer?
[17:38] <ArmyMan007> i'm sorry... I'll be back in 20 min tops...
[17:38] <ArmyMan007> sorry... :-(
[17:38] <Sekaab> okay
[17:41] <LeAstrale> doesnt Xubuntu have some way to lock the screen when you leave the computer?
[17:42] <LeAstrale> i have been unable to find a keycombo or anything that locked and required password on return
[17:43] <ron_o> you mean lockscreen?
[17:47] <ron_o> you have to explain yourself more LeAstrale
[17:47] <LeAstrale> ron_o: i mean that in Kubuntu i can push ctrl+alt+L to lock the computer
[17:47] <LeAstrale> but i cant in Xubuntu
[17:48] <ArmyMan007> I'm back...
[17:49] <ArmyMan007> ready to get to work...
[17:49] <ron_o> well, you can set up a shortcut in applications >> settings >> keyboard
[17:49] <ron_o> but I'm not sure if you can do that or not.
[17:50] <LeAstrale> its one of the key features i miss at the moment:/
[17:50] <ron_o> wiat
[17:50] <ArmyMan007> can anyone help me with how to connect my other computer to the internet?
[17:51] <ron_o> LeAstrale, try control+alt+delete as a test to see if that works.
[17:51] <LeAstrale> ron_o: i will do on return to Xubuntu
[17:51] <ron_o> I think the command is xflock4
[17:52] <ron_o> I don't use that function so, ya know.:)
[17:52] <ron_o> I should try it now..
[17:52] <ron_o> oh wait.. no....
[17:52] <ron_o> yes..
[17:52] <ron_o> no..
[17:52] <ron_o> :_)
[17:52] <ron_o> can'
[17:52] <ron_o> can
[17:52] <ron_o> can't decide.
[17:52] <ArmyMan007> could anyone please help me to configure my wireless connection?
[17:53] <ArmyMan007> lelolelolelo,lelolelolelolelo,lelolelolelolelo,delililililolelolelo...
[17:53] <ArmyMan007> could anyone please help me to configure my wireless connection?
[17:53] <LeAstrale> ArmyMan007: stop the spam, it wont help you at all
[17:54] <ArmyMan007> LeAstrale -> I would like to reffer you to other spam that has been made by another user...
[17:55] <ron_o> LeAstrale, I just tried both xflock4 and alt+control+del and it locks the screen automatically.
[17:55] <LeAstrale> okay. ty ron_o
[17:55] <LeAstrale> solved my problems
[17:55] <ron_o> you could set up your own key combo as you wish.
[17:55] <LeAstrale> im gonna user Super+L like in windows
[17:56] <wbadger> anyone good with ooo calc?
[17:56] <ArmyMan007> could anyone please help me?\
[17:56] <ArmyMan007> I need help despretly
[17:57] <wbadger> ArmyMan007, what's your problem
[17:58] <ArmyMan007> I need help configuring the network
[17:59] <ArmyMan007> I'm using this computer (XP) which has internet working
[17:59] <ArmyMan007> and the other computer (having the Xubuntu) is the problematic...
[18:00] <wbadger> pm me?
[18:00] <TheSheep> wbadger: we don't pm here
[18:00] <ArmyMan007> just help me out here
[18:00] <ArmyMan007> i need a step-by-step help...
[18:00] <ArmyMan007> and I've got 1 hour to do so...
[18:00] <wbadger> ok .. sorry, ArmyMan007 what exactly happens when you try to connect
[18:01]  * LeAstrale bows and crawl back in the corner! TheSheep has returned!
[18:03] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> I don't know how to setup the internet connection
[18:04] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: how do you connect?
[18:04] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: with the xp
[18:04] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> The XP has the router, and the other computer has the reciever thingy...
[18:05] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> and I don't know how to setup everything there...
[18:05] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: this is wireless network?
[18:06] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> yes
[18:06] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: how is the receiver connected to the computer? through usb?
[18:07] <ArmyMan007> not through a USB
[18:08] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: network cable?
[18:08] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: rj-45?
[18:08] <MatBoy> more people have problems with a unstable XFCE on 7.10 ?
[18:08] <TheSheep> MatBoy: define "unstable"
[18:08] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> it's a wireless receiver
[18:09] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: but how it is connected to the computer?
[18:09] <MatBoy> TheSheep, crashing applications, aplpication menu gone, background menu (right click) not working, this all when running the system for some minutes
[18:09] <TheSheep> MatBoy: sounds pretty back
[18:09] <TheSheep> MatBoy: s/back.bad
[18:09] <ArmyMan007> It's just pluged in the back..
[18:10] <MatBoy> TheSheep, indeed, sorry to say, but I'm going to install KDE now to see what happens
[18:10] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: how the socket looks like? is it flat and thin?
[18:10] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: or does it look like a phone plug, only bigger?
[18:10] <MatBoy> or shall I go for gnome ?
[18:10] <ArmyMan007> phone plug kind
[18:10] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: ok, that's rj45
[18:10] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> by the way, sorry for the misunderstanding...
[18:11] <MatBoy> rj45 is 8 poles, rj11 is 4
[18:11] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> could you please help me with it?
[18:12] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: I don't know about how to set up the thing on the windows side
[18:12] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: you might try asking at ##windows
[18:12] <ArmyMan007> I need to install it on the ubuntu
[18:12] <ArmyMan007> !!!
[18:12] <wbadger> I don't think it requires installing on windows
[18:12] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: but I can help with the linux side if the other side is set up already
[18:12] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> I need to install it on the Xubuntu, not windows...
[18:13] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: wait, so it's not two computers?
[18:13] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> I just need help, step-by-step as to how to configure the internet... from A-Z
[18:13] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep -> I have 2 computers: one I'm talking with you right now (this is the XP), and the other computer has the Xubuntu
[18:14] <wbadger> TheSheep, he said windows comp works, and is connected to a router, which in place is connected to the xubuntu comp
[18:15] <MatBoy> ok, I'm installing gnome now
[18:15]  * TheSheep is confused
[18:15] <MatBoy> man  it **** but I have seen it more with XRFCE
[18:15] <MatBoy> XFCE
[18:15] <wbadger> heh nothing to be confused about
[18:15] <TheSheep> MatBoy: if it won't help, there might be some driver or hardware issue
[18:15] <MatBoy> TheSheep, yap, could be it also... Nvidia maybe >
[18:15] <MatBoy> ?
[18:15] <ArmyMan007> ok... i get it... i'll be back tommarow... :-(
[18:16] <TheSheep> MatBoy: possible
[18:16] <MatBoy> I only run the Nvidia drivers because I like that start-logo :P
[18:16] <TheSheep> MatBoy: try gnome, if it works fine then it's xubuntu
[18:16] <MatBoy> TheSheep, I will let you know...
[18:16] <MatBoy> I'm someone that is sticky to one thing...
[18:16] <MatBoy> man, I don't like to change
[18:16] <TheSheep> MatBoy: nobody likes
[18:17] <MatBoy> TheSheep, no really, I also don;t like new cars
[18:17] <MatBoy> and new girlfriends
[18:17] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> em.. what's herzliya? :O
[18:17] <wbadger> city
[18:17] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> can't PM you...
[18:18] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> what makes you think i'm from there?
[18:18] <wbadger> nickname and real name - I know someone with same as yours
[18:19] <ArmyMan007> are you like in his school or something?
[18:19] <wbadger> was
[18:20] <ArmyMan007> sorry for the personal question: was? did you move or something?
[18:20] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: you need to have your nick registered with freenode to pm non-ops
[18:20] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: see the faq on freenone.net website
[18:20] <TheSheep> freenode.net
[18:20] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep - could you please show me a link to do so?
[18:21] <wbadger> was with him in middle school now we are in different high schools
[18:21]  * MatBoy is bbl reboot
[18:21] <TheSheep> wbadger: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
[18:21] <ArmyMan007> wbadger what's your highschool?
[18:21] <TheSheep> sorry
[18:21] <TheSheep> aemthat was for you
[18:21] <ArmyMan007> TheSheep - Thanks, found it... :D
[18:22] <TheSheep> ArmyMan007: taht was for you
[18:22] <wbadger> I'm in rishonim now. you (he) were with some of my class in germany. for registration i believe all it takes is writing "/msg nickserv register yourpassword"
[18:23] <j1mc> MatBoy left, but i just read his notes above now.  it bothers me when people say, "xubuntu (or whatever) stinks" when they are using non-free drivers.
[18:23] <TheSheep> j1mc: he just wanted to get our attention to help him
[18:23] <j1mc> yeah
[18:23] <TheSheep> j1mc: he doesn't mean it
[18:23] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> rishonim highschool? what an odd name...
[18:24] <wbadger> rishonim = first in hebrew
[18:24] <ArmyMan007> wbadger -> awsome! so... what's your name? :D
[18:25] <ArmyMan007> Let's get it started (on Xubuntu... :P)
[18:25] <wbadger> register then pm ;)
[18:25] <ArmyMan007> k... working on it..
[18:28] <ArmyMan007_> try to PM
[18:33] <MatBoy> ow man it has happened
[18:33] <MatBoy> you have to ban me from this channel
[18:33] <MatBoy> me likes gnome
[18:39] <TheSheep> MatBoy: we don't mind
[18:41] <j1mc> MatBoy: :)  gnome has more user-friendly things that xfce.  it's just a bit slower is all.
[18:41] <MatBoy> j1mc, it's faster here actually :S
[18:41] <MatBoy> TheSheep, ok, I will not leave ;)
[18:42] <j1mc> hrmmmm... o.O
[18:47] <MatBoy> j1mc, man, Gnome is really so much faster on my Q6600 :S
[18:47] <MatBoy> man, I'm really sorry guys
[19:46] <Super_BQ> hi
[19:49] <Super_BQ> i updated kubuntu and after reboot, there is no start menu showing
[19:49] <Super_BQ> it says some dbus power manager didn't start and console showing
[19:57] <j1mc> Super_BQ: can you open a terminal?
[20:32] <rech> hi, since I've updated from 7.04 to 7.10, everytime that message box "enter your password to perform administrative tasks" takes something like 40 seconds to auth my password. It used to be much quicker with 7.04. Do you guys know if  I can re-configure that?
[20:32] <kyp4> can anyone help me with an xubuntu problem I am having?
[20:40] <kyp4> ... guess not
[20:40] <Super_BQ> same here
[20:41] <Super_BQ> I did an update and my xfc4 desktop (pull down menu) application got nuked
[20:41] <Super_BQ> fortunately terminal and vnc works
[20:43] <Super_BQ> i had to rightclick on the top menu bar and manually add Xfce Menu - but somehow the icon of the mouse it shows has an X (meaning error?)
[20:43] <Super_BQ> after reboot - menu still shows up but with the X
[20:44] <Super_BQ> and the annoying dbus error message after every reboot
[20:49] <Super_BQ> ahh i think i've may of fixed 1 bug
[20:49] <Super_BQ> disabled the power manager - don't need it
[23:12] <cheruvim> hey all got a problem
[23:12] <LeAstrale> hi
[23:12] <LeAstrale> :)
[23:12] <cheruvim> I'm trying to post to the forums and they won't let me.. do I have to respond to an email or something
[23:12] <cheruvim> I keep getting this damn screen saying I dont have permissions
[23:12] <cheruvim> yet I see other users posting constantly
[23:13] <LeAstrale> cheruvim: i actually can't remember if you have to activaet the account by email first?
[23:14] <cheruvim> I registered, and then tried to post and I keep getting the damn permissions screen, it's wierd
[23:14] <cheruvim> anyway the reason I'm trying to post to the forums is that I'm trying to use aldo the morse code training program
[23:14] <cheruvim> and I've hit a snag
[23:15] <cheruvim> every time I try to use koch method or block method, it says "can't create mcop directory"
[23:15] <cheruvim> I use it sudo
[23:15] <cheruvim> because it won't run as my user
[23:16] <cheruvim> actually correct that.. it will run but it runs into the same problem
[23:16] <cheruvim> any ideas as to why it can't create a directory even as super user??
[23:17] <cheruvim> according what I've read on the forums so far, it should just go. anyone know if there is a conf file?
[23:18] <LeAstrale> try creating it with sudo mkdir first
[23:18] <LeAstrale> i dunno sry
[23:18] <cheruvim> hmm ok.. I'll try that
[23:19] <cheruvim> I think the problem is that I don't know where it is trying to create this directory
[23:19] <cheruvim> here is the full message?
[23:19] <cheruvim> Creating link /home/cfurst/.kde/socket-cfurst-desktop.
[23:19] <cheruvim> can't create mcop directory
[23:22] <LeAstrale> have you tried asking in the kubuntu channel ?
[23:22] <LeAstrale> are you using Xubuntu ?
[23:23] <LeAstrale> im using kubuntu and i have both ".kde", ".kde4" and ".mcop" hidden in my homefolder
[23:23] <LeAstrale> where you shouldn't need to be root to create folders
[23:24] <cheruvim> I'm using gutsy isn't that gnome by default?
[23:24] <nicola1> Where can I read changelog from 7.10 to 8.04 alpha 6 ? most changes I read were about gnome environmente
[23:24] <cheruvim> maybe its a gnome kde compatibility issue.. I'll check for those folders and their permissions..
[23:24] <LeAstrale> ubuntu gutsy ?
[23:25] <cheruvim> yeah it's the newest one, no?
[23:25] <LeAstrale> it is
[23:28] <cheruvim> GOT IT
[23:29] <cheruvim> I had to create that directory with word rwx permissions.
[23:29] <cheruvim> all
[23:30] <LeAstrale> okay then :)
[23:31] <cheruvim> thanks for the suggestion.. :)
[23:31] <LeAstrale> yw
[23:36] <ere4si> cheruvim, if I try to access the forums from the front page I get the permission prob - I use a link to a post and join from there with no issues
[23:36] <cheruvim> which link?
[23:37] <ere4si> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=333867
[23:43] <cheruvim> hey thanks for the link
[23:43] <cheruvim> turns out I had to activate the account via link in an email
[23:43] <ere4si> k :)
[23:44] <cheruvim> evolution wasn't set up to automatically receive mail... So I didn't see it until I hit da button. OK.. so I'm a noob so sue me.. :-D
[23:44] <LeAstrale> cheruvim: didn't i imply that earlier ?
[23:44] <cheruvim> I thought you said you didn't remember
[23:45] <cheruvim> ok so now I have to learn morse code.
[23:45] <LeAstrale> i might have
[23:45] <LeAstrale> bbl folks
[23:45] <samuel> Hello ppl, I need some help over here. My sound crashes because of wine. I got a nForce2 AC97 chipset. I just want to know how to restart the sound (which mod should I remove with rmmod?, is there another way of restarting sound?) Thanks for help.
[23:46] <ere4si> samuel, you might be better asking that in #winehq...
[23:46] <cheruvim> Thanks for the help everyone... have fun! :)
[23:48] <samuel> well actually my question is not really about wine, but about sound in ubuntu
[23:48] <samuel> but I can try it
[23:48] <ere4si> was it when you installed wine that you lost the sound sanu?
[23:49] <samuel> no
[23:49] <samuel> only when wine crashes
[23:50] <ere4si> samuel, then that's a wine issue I would think - find out why it crashes
[23:50] <ere4si> after a crash - type in a terminal   dmesg | tail
[23:53] <samuel> mmmh no sys error repported. Apparently, wine seems to still use the soundchipset, even if I crashed
[23:53] <samuel> *it
[23:56] <ere4si> try   top   in a terminal to see if after a crash wine is still using resources
[23:57] <samuel> mmmh no, wine is definitely not using resources
[23:58] <samuel> but xmms is not able to play any sound


[02:45] <jsgotangco> good morning
[02:46] <Burgundavia> salut
[02:46] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what is happening?
[02:47] <Burgundavia> not much
[02:47] <jsgotangco> even svn isn't active
[02:47] <jsgotangco> :(
[02:47] <Burgundavia> no
[02:47] <Burgundavia> I need to email elmo my new key
[02:48] <Burgundavia> and then I will get active
[02:48] <jsgotangco> ok
[04:17] <jsgotangco> thegreedyturtle, hi there
[05:36] <thegreedyturtle> hey jsgo, sorry i was idle
[05:36] <thegreedyturtle> still kinda am ;)
[05:37] <jsgotangco> no worries
[05:42] <Burgundavia> hey
[05:42] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:42] <Burgundavia> quick summary
[05:42] <Burgundavia> we want a web way to editing our docs in svn, using docbook
[05:42] <Burgundavia> froud has investigated apache lenya
[05:42] <Burgundavia> seems like it meets our needs
[05:43] <Burgundavia> we need a dev to look at it and give and upcheck/downcheck
[05:43] <jdub> a 'web way'?
[05:43] <Burgundavia> editing online, ala a wiki, but into the svn repos
[05:44] <jdub> using docbook syntax?
[05:44] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:45] <jdub> so writing docbook syntax into an html form that gets shunted into svn..
[05:45] <Burgundavia> yes, I believe so
[05:45] <jdub> that seems remarkably breakable and complicated for simple document editing procedures
[05:45] <Burgundavia> I have not played with lenya myself
[05:45] <Burgundavia> we are looking to involve a great many people in doc editing
[05:45] <Burgundavia> provide a single source
[05:45] <Burgundavia> and keep our existing infrastructure
[05:46] <jdub> that sounds like using an svn or baz repository directly to me - i don't understand the web page requirement
[05:46] <Burgundavia> the web requirement is to lower the exisiting barrier to editing
[05:46] <Burgundavia> think of this as rosetta vs a gnome-translator
[05:47] <jdub> it doesn't lower the barrier usefully
[05:47] <jdub> the writer still has to author docbook
[05:47] <jsgotangco> can i make a comment
[05:47] <jdub> and they're stuck in an htmlarea instead of a text editor
[05:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, jump in
[05:48] <jsgotangco> i still don't see the point of the portal since the manual author still has to dump his thoughts in an html text area
[05:48] <jdub> (i see lenya has some element of wysiwyg editing, but has an awful chunk of infrastructure underneath it)
[05:48] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:49] <jsgotangco> (the awful chunk of intfrastructure can be the xslt stuff)
[05:49] <Burgundavia> the team almost ripped itself apart in January discussing major changes
[05:49] <Burgundavia> we decided that the path of least resistance was to develop a web portal to our existing docbook/svn stuff
[05:50] <jdub> that sounds like a heck of a lot of wasted time to me
[05:51] <Burgundavia> can you suggest a better solution (I am asking seriously)
[05:51] <jdub> sorry, but a good editor, sensible revision control (svn or preferably baz) and useful preview tools (yelp) are all you need to start writing and contributing good documentation
[05:52] <Burgundavia> what about single source?
[05:52] <Burgundavia> I want to remove all docs from the wiki (hopefully)
[05:53] <jdub> so, you have to get used to the idea that it will never happen :)
[05:53] <jsgotangco> i still like our current setup
[05:53] <jsgotangco> (its quite simple really)
[05:53] <jdub> official documentation in revision control and in the distro (packages) is hugely beneficial
[05:54] <jdub> because you have a clear place to contribute (both docs, translations, etc)
[05:54] <jdub> and a clear delivery path (packages in the distro)
[05:54] <jdub> you could also autogenerate them for a website
[05:54] <Burgundavia> what about on the web?
[05:55] <jdub> if you want to deliver them to a website, that's really simple
[05:55] <jdub> there will always be stuff going on in the wiki
[05:55] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:55] <Burgundavia> I am talking single source
[05:56] <Burgundavia> the wiki is currently filled with crap, from our perspective
[05:56] <jdub> in fact, having the wiki makes finding people for the documentation team so much easier
[05:56] <Burgundavia> most of what we are discussing has been hashed out many times on the doc team lists
[05:56] <jdub> we can pluck great contributors from the wiki into the doc team, and get them working on the distro docs
[05:56] <Burgundavia> I am trying to move forward what we discussed there
[05:57] <jdub> ok, so my suggestion for moving forward:
[05:57] <jdub> * docbook in revision control
[05:57] <Burgundavia> but you are failing to address the major issue that still exists
[05:57] <jdub> * attempt to automate package building for testing purposes
[05:57] <jdub> * do some gonzo web delivery for testing purposes, maybe spruce it up and make it sexy later on
[05:58] <Burgundavia> what about getting it back from the web?
[05:58] <jdub> * hack more talk less! :)
[05:58] <jsgotangco> jdub, ROCK
[05:58] <Burgundavia> I am trying to get something together here
[05:58] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, to be honest, you are not helping
[05:58] <Burgundavia> I am very very mad now
[05:58] <jdub> well, further down the track we could look into doing documentation commentary like php.net, but in the distro instead of on the web
[05:58] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i don't seewhy we have to complicate this to be honest
[05:58] <jdub> but there's no point making things complicated to start with
[05:59] <jsgotangco> my problem at the moment is that no one is pulling docs from svn except some people
[05:59] <Burgundavia> I am going to walk away, and when I come back, I am going to post a message to the devel list about what the doc team has dicussed, what we have found, and where we need to move
[05:59] <jsgotangco> our svn is still empty
[05:59] <jdub> jsgotangco: empty?
[05:59] <jdub> i thought all the distro doc bits were in it
[05:59] <jsgotangco> empty as in old docs
[06:00] <jsgotangco> i meant it still has old docs
[06:00] <jsgotangco> its not really moving that much
[06:00] <jdub> yeah
[06:00] <jsgotangco> just look at the commit list
[06:00] <jdub> seems there's more discussion about infrastructure issues than actual doc hacking :)
[06:00] <jsgotangco> i know
[06:00] <jsgotangco> thats why i believe froud is getting frustrated at this
[06:01] <jsgotangco> this is not a complicated issue
[06:03] <jsgotangco> jdub, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-May/002220.html
[06:04] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:04] <Burgundavia> sorry, needed to blow off steam
[06:04] <Burgundavia> Sean and I have spent the past 2 months talking about this issue
[06:04] <Burgundavia> and this is what we came up with
[06:04] <Burgundavia> so, yes there has already been a lot of talk
[06:04] <Burgundavia> this is about how to move it forward
[06:05] <jdub> i don't see the necessity for a "web portal" to move forward
[06:05] <jdub> we already have the tools
[06:05] <Burgundavia> basically, I said, we need a web way to edit stuff
[06:05] <jdub> but you don't
[06:05] <Burgundavia> sean said, lets not lose the exisiting infrastructure
[06:05] <jsgotangco> jdub, would it be possible to consider this for the future instead for this release cycle
[06:06] <jdub> you have a much better tool on your hard disk
[06:06] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no
[06:06] <jdub> a web browser is a hideous place to write docbook
[06:06] <Burgundavia> at least let us try and then fail
[06:06] <jdub> you actually have all the tools you need already
[06:06] <Burgundavia> before you condemn us to fail beforehand
[06:06] <Burgundavia> I find that very annoying
[06:06] <jdub> i'm not saying it will fail
[06:06] <jsgotangco> i can only imagine our portal becoming like the wiki sorry but that's how i feel about this
[06:07] <jdub> i'm saying you have everything you need to write and publish documentation
[06:07] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we can control access to a web portal much easier
[06:07] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am saying we don't
[06:07] <jdub> you don't need a web portal to write docs
[06:07] <Burgundavia> jdub, you don't need rosettta to translate either, by the same logic
[06:07] <jdub> that's absolutely true
[06:08] <Burgundavia> but it makes it easier
[06:08] <Burgundavia> this is about making it easier
[06:08] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu is about making it easier
[06:08] <jdub> dude
[06:08] <jdub> emotional argument is not useful argument
[06:08] <Burgundavia> I am just very frustrating
[06:09] <Burgundavia> because we have a workable solution
[06:09] <Burgundavia> froud has tested it
[06:09] <Burgundavia> we just need a dev to implement it
[06:09] <jdub> no, dude
[06:09] <jdub> this is silliness
[06:09] <jdub> you already have all the tools you need
[06:09] <jdub> every other project out there has written documentation without a 'web portal'
[06:09] <Burgundavia> most docs suck
[06:09] <Burgundavia> and they don't involve the community
[06:09] <jdub> in exactly the same way that every other project out there has translations done in emacs
[06:09] <jdub> that is incorrect
[06:10] <Burgundavia> suffice it to say that we need a better way. We really do. The web is a very easy tool to getting people involved
[06:10] <Burgundavia> lets harness that
[06:10] <jdub> i'm sorry, but this is emotional claptrap
[06:11] <jdub> a) you don't need a better way, you need to actually write docs
[06:11] <Burgundavia> jdub, that is rude
[06:11] <jdub> b) you don't need more people involved, you need a small team doing great work - *then* you can scale up
[06:11] <jdub> this is infrastructural fantasy stuff
[06:14] <jdub> the point about rosetta is fine, but translation has actually scaled to the point where rosetta can be useful
[06:14] <jdub> documentation, within ubuntu, has not
[06:15] <jdub> a better first step would be to have web based commentary on documentation, like php
[06:15] <jdub> then integrating that with yelp, the documentation reader in gnome
[06:15] <Burgundavia> commentary on docs?
[06:16] <jdub> that will allow people to contribute to the documentation in a useful way, and have documentors operating as editors of those contributions
[06:16] <jdub> further down the track, using something similar to monodoc for user contributions far beyond commentary would be great
[06:16] <jdub> but it's very, very important to start small and scale up
[06:16] <Burgundavia> then fundamentally is the difference between that and what I am proposing?
[06:16] <jdub> i'm talking about the future
[06:16] <jdub> nice things to have
[06:16] <Burgundavia> I think the people will appear "when you build it"
[06:17] <jdub> they're entirely unnecessary for writing documentation right now, however
[06:17] <jdub> we have the best tools to hand already
[06:17] <jdub> revision control (svn or even better, baz)
[06:17] <Burgundavia> we currently use svn, talk to us later about changing
[06:18] <Burgundavia> we are also not going to change from docbook
[06:18] <jdub> emacs or vi with docbook/xml editing helpers, or even conglomerate if it's stable enough
[06:18] <Burgundavia> thus, we need an easy way to involve people
[06:18] <Burgundavia> conglomerate is not
[06:18] <jdub> ok, the easy way to involve people is this:
[06:18] <Burgundavia> I use bluefish myself
[06:18] <jdub> do absolutely fantastic work and inspire people to get on board
[06:19] <Burgundavia> look, docs are glamourous
[06:19] <Burgundavia> every single barrier, no matter how small, that is in the way migth be the showstopper
[06:19] <Burgundavia> observe gnome docs
[06:19] <jdub> i understand
[06:19] <jdub> ah, gnome documentation has different problems
[06:19] <jdub> related to scaling and branching
[06:19] <Burgundavia> on the web eliminates a huge barrier of getting another program and learning how to use that, etc.
[06:20] <jdub> no, it doesn't significantly help
[06:20] <jdub> unless the user doesn't have to write docbook
[06:20] <Burgundavia> I don't want documentors to have to deal with version control
[06:20] <Burgundavia> taht should just happen
[06:20] <jdub> which can be done with desktop tools too :)
[06:20] <Burgundavia> which ones?
[06:20] <Burgundavia> eSVN?
[06:20] <jdub> no
[06:20] <jdub> dude
[06:20] <jdub> scale up
[06:21] <jdub> forget this infrastructure fancy
[06:21] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am saying we will scale when we have the structure in place
[06:21] <jdub> the important thing is to do great work - that's what gets people interested to help out
[06:21] <jdub> you don't need to scale now
[06:21] <jdub> you need to start
[06:22] <Burgundavia> please just implement the lenya thing, and then we can talk
[06:22] <Burgundavia> we can make that an official request, if you want
[06:22] <jdub> "then we can talk"?
[06:22] <jdub> dude
[06:22] <jdub> seriously
[06:22] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, that didnt sound right
[06:23] <jdub> it's not easy because it's not right or compeling
[06:23] <jdub> compelling
[06:23] <jdub> the doc team doesn't need more infrastructure to write docs
[06:23] <jdub> it needs more docs :-)
[06:24] <jdub> that's what will get people interested
[06:24] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, have you read through the backlog of this channel and doc-list?
[06:24] <jdub> one of the past gnome doc team leaders learnt docbook specifically to contribute
[06:24] <jdub> i know guys who've learnt C to contribute to gnome
[06:24] <Burgundavia> I am trying to find the email exchange mark, sean and I had
[06:24] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[06:25] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, irclog no, but doc-list yes, for me its all pointless as no one is pulling docs from svn
[06:25] <jsgotangco> svn is all that matters to me at the moment
[06:25] <jdub> the real lesson here is not to get bogged down in irrelevant details
[06:26] <jdub> start small, kick arse, scale when necessary, not before
[06:27] <jdub> i understand the attraction, but i've seen way too many projects kill themselves doing things that are unrelated to their real goals
[06:27] <jdub> i have to get some lunch :-)
[06:28] <jsgotangco> me too
[06:28] <jsgotangco> jdub, thanks for the time
[06:28] <Burgundavia> jdub, take a read through this thread --> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-April/001755.html
[06:58] <jdub> so i just had a long walk to get lunch
[06:58] <jdub> and thought about a bunch of the problems
[07:00] <jsgotangco> sounds good i just arrived from lunch as well
[07:00] <jdub> i think the first part is really basic
[07:00] <jdub> this talk about a web portal assumes that the major role of the doc team is 'writing docs'
[07:01] <jdub> where really, it isn't
[07:01] <jdub> at least not this early on
[07:01] <jdub> there's an enormous amount we can do simply by using what we have, and integrating it in a more useful way
[07:01] <jdub> there's very little that needs to be done from scratch
[07:01] <jdub> *very* little
[07:04] <Burgundavia> that is the point of lenya
[07:04] <Burgundavia> it is already a fairly mature app
[07:05] <jdub> oh, dude, come on
[07:05] <Burgundavia> in fact, they just added some measure of WYSIWYG editing
[07:05] <jsgotangco> ok i want to base on my experience im no docbook expert at all, sean took the time to mentor me and most of what I know came from him but it didnt stop me from doing stuff in what we currently have in a learning standpoint it is very interesting but can be intimidating to the new user
[07:06] <jsgotangco> id rather have contributors who know some level of docbook or at least willing to bitethe bullet instead of giving them toned-down tools
[07:06] <jsgotangco> too much abstraction muddles things
[07:07] <Burgundavia> jdub, jsgotangco, sorry, my ex is calling, I must run
[07:07] <jdub> Burgundavia: "the point of lenya" is not to realise that we hardly need to write new docs at all
[07:07] <Burgundavia> jdub, say again?
[07:08] <jdub> i've relayed a thought about hardly needing to write docs at all, and you've somehow related it to a document writing tool
[07:08] <jdub> it ends up sounding silly after a while
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I am still not understanding what you are saying
[07:08] <jsgotangco> hmm you mean using technology for the sake of technology instead of your end goal?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> web based writing is not technology for the sake of technology
[07:09] <jdub> Burgundavia: you inserted your current argument into an unrelated point
[07:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:09] <jdub> here's me saying we don't need to write new docs
[07:10] <jdub> and here's you saying "this is what a doc writing tool is for!"
[07:10] <jdub> it doesn't gel
[07:10] <jdub> and it sounds silly
[07:10] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:11] <Burgundavia> what I got from you is that current tools are suffecient not "we don't need to write new docs"
[07:11] <jdub> oddly, i'm saying both
[07:12] <Burgundavia> what do you mean about writing new docs?
[07:12] <jdub> but the latter is a new thought
[07:12] <Burgundavia> are you saying we just need to collate what is out there?
[07:12] <Burgundavia> that is total crack
[07:12] <jdub> it is not total crack
[07:12] <jdub> we have a wealth of documentation already
[07:12] <jsgotangco> it makes sense reusing what we currently have
[07:12] <jdub> and it is inadequately presented to users
[07:12] <Burgundavia> good docs are visual
[07:12] <jsgotangco> we just have to weed out the crack ones
[07:12] <Burgundavia> visual requires screenshots/etc.
[07:13] <Burgundavia> which are by there very nature Ubuntu specific
[07:13] <jdub> but you're assuming that requires fresh new documentation
[07:13] <Burgundavia> at the very least, it requires major refactoring of exisiting docs
[07:14] <jdub> and ignoring the massive benefits we can give to users from existing works
[07:14] <jdub> no dude
[07:14] <jdub> even before refactoring
[07:14] <jdub> there is a lot we can do
[07:14] <jdub> for instance
[07:14] <Burgundavia> sorry, really have to go this time
[07:14] <jdub> early in the warty cycle
[07:14] <Burgundavia> my ex is here
[07:14] <Burgundavia> countinue what you have to say
[07:14] <Burgundavia> I can read in the scrollback
[07:14] <Burgundavia> and respond later
[07:14] <jdub> i suggested (and thom implemented) integration of the debian doc metadata and OMF
[07:15] <jdub> suddenly, we almost doubled the documentation available in yelp
[07:15] <jdub> that's a huge win
[07:15] <jdub> with very little work
[07:15] <jsgotangco> jdub, most argue that no one reads documentation in yelp
[07:15] <jdub> just pulling together stuff we already have
[07:15] <jdub> jsgotangco: well hey, lots of people argue that no one reads documentation :-)
[07:16] <jsgotangco> ok same goes then so we have so much stuff in the wiki
[07:16] <jsgotangco> some are gold, some are crack
[07:16] <jsgotangco> i still believe we can weed out the crack in that
[07:16] <jdub> (i don't think either argument has much merit)
[07:16] <jsgotangco> and integrate in current svn
[07:17] <jdub> yeah, there's a bunch of stuff we can do there
[07:17] <jdub> but there's way more we can do without even touching a line of docbook
[07:17] <jsgotangco> we all agreed in UDU that our wiki needs a facelift thats why we had a bof for that
[07:18] <jdub> yeah, switching away from zwiki will make life simpler
[07:18] <jdub> that was an unfortunate mistake
[07:18] <jsgotangco> i still believe that since docbook gets frozen our wiki is the natural exgtension of the documentation therefore needs tighter controls
[07:18] <jdub> the wiki needs tighter controls?
[07:19] <jsgotangco> well at least have someone review what people have been posting on it
[07:19] <thegreedyturtle> 'hoy
[07:19] <jdub> yes
[07:19] <jdub> it needs farming
[07:20] <thegreedyturtle> i kinda disagree with that, i think that the wiki needs to be very free, and then the docteam takes the best of it and moves it into the official docs
[07:20] <jsgotangco> we shouldn't remove its collaborative nature
[07:20] <jdub> thegreedyturtle: (you're not disagreeing)
[07:20] <thegreedyturtle> im disagreeing with the statement that the wiki needs tighter controls
[07:20] <jdub> thegreedyturtle: jsgotangco just clarified that
[07:21] <thegreedyturtle> mm, im not so sure about even review myself though
[07:21] <thegreedyturtle> it would be good for keeping the wiki organized though
[07:21] <jdub> every good wiki needs farmers
[07:22] <jsgotangco> you end up with ambigious docs
[07:22] <thegreedyturtle> clarify farmers?
[07:22] <jsgotangco> farmers weed stuff
[07:22] <jdub> people who roam the wiki, tidying stuff up, culling the crap, etc.
[07:22] <thegreedyturtle> got it
[07:22] <jsgotangco> so far mdke is doing good work on that
[07:24] <thegreedyturtle> is mdke post on the list at all? i don't have the names matched to the irc handles yet
[07:24] <jsgotangco> im sure contributors are interested in learning some docbook
[07:24] <jsgotangco> thegreedyturtle, mdke is matthew east
[07:24] <thegreedyturtle> ok
[07:24] <jsgotangco> jdub is jeff waugh
[07:25] <thegreedyturtle> thanks
[07:26] <thegreedyturtle> being fairly new myself, i think the biggest hurdle for new people isn't actually the docbook formats, but accessing the repositories
[07:27] <jsgotangco> hmmm you mean by committing or just accessing
[07:27] <jsgotangco> its not that difficult
[07:27] <thegreedyturtle> a bit of both, and i know it's not difficult, but consider what happens when someone checks out the document source code
[07:28] <thegreedyturtle> they suddenly get this huge dump of code, and it's easy to get overwhelmed
[07:28] <thegreedyturtle> and then: what to do next?
[07:28] <jsgotangco> well you check out svn because you expect that stuff right
[07:29] <thegreedyturtle> well, you check out the svn because you expect it, and I check out the svn because I expect it, but someone who just wants to submit a quick document about how they made something work would not want that stuff
[07:29] <thegreedyturtle> they just want to write a paper and feel good about it - which is why wikis are so popular... which brings us back to the root
[07:30] <jsgotangco> we can't put all that stuff in svn much less include every contribution
[07:31] <thegreedyturtle> very true - so the question here is how can we allow a user who doesn't want to deal with docbook and svn to contribute to something other than a wiki?
[07:32] <thegreedyturtle> the simple way is to use farmers
[07:32] <jdub> thegreedyturtle: further down the track - annotated documentation, either on the web or in yelp
[07:33] <jdub> but it's *further down the track*
[07:33] <jdub> no point worrying about it now
[07:33] <thegreedyturtle> righto
[07:34] <jsgotangco> ok we're going back to where we started, this is not a complicated thing some people have submitted docs in OOo or other format and we've publishedit as docbook
[07:34] <thegreedyturtle> so that's your earlier point about just getting something 'on paper' ?
[07:35] <thegreedyturtle> you are saying that someone submitted as OOo and someone else did the conversion for them, right?
[07:35] <jsgotangco> right
[07:36] <jsgotangco> (although OOo to Docbook isn't the cleanest thing available at the moment)
[07:36] <thegreedyturtle> from your experience, do you think that's scaleable?
[07:36] <thegreedyturtle> another question, one of you mentioned that the svn documents are all old?
[07:37] <thegreedyturtle> what are they old compared to?
[07:37] <thegreedyturtle> another repo, the wiki, ... ?
[07:37] <thegreedyturtle> (im kinda picking your brain now.. :)
[07:39] <jsgotangco> if you mean scaleable in a sense that we can do it for everyone everyday, no its not the most effective way but we don't do that everyday
[07:39] <jsgotangco> (i don't think traffic of that kind won't go up either)
[07:40] <jsgotangco> when I said old, i meant hoary old docs since we're in breezy, there are some stuff that may not be applicable now
[07:40] <thegreedyturtle> ok
[07:40] <jsgotangco> (if you look at the commit list nothing much has moved either)
[07:41] <jsgotangco> (which is understandable because we're still to early to do effective docs for breezy)
[07:41] <jdub> thegreedyturtle: luckily, we don't need to be concerned about scalability this early on :-)
[07:41] <jsgotangco> right
[07:41] <thegreedyturtle> you guys both running breezy right now?
[07:41] <jsgotangco> my other machine runs breezy
[07:42] <thegreedyturtle> is it worth running yet?
[07:42] <jsgotangco> i wouldn't use it as main of course
[07:43] <thegreedyturtle> ok
[07:43] <jsgotangco> but some people i met in UDU run breezy in their laptops
[07:43] <thegreedyturtle> mmm UDU, that was prolly lotsa fun neh?
[07:44] <jsgotangco> it was fun but it was work at the same time
[07:44] <jsgotangco> (we watched hitchiker's guide though)
[07:44] <thegreedyturtle> brb
[07:48] <thegreedyturtle> fun, work, what's the difference?
[07:49] <thegreedyturtle> what do you usually use to edit docbook, just an xml editor?
[07:50] <jsgotangco> heck even emacs will do
[07:51] <thegreedyturtle> yeah but I'm lazy...
[07:53] <jsgotangco> well being lazy won't start things really
[07:54] <thegreedyturtle> it's not a lazy as in start things, more lazy as in i want the convenience of a simple editor, but i guess it doesn't matter
[07:55] <jsgotangco> i like learning new stuff i guess it really depends on the person
[07:55] <thegreedyturtle> i like learning stuff too, but right now im up to my nostril hairs
[07:57] <thegreedyturtle> i have a subversion book to read, a docbook to read, and im still finishing essential sys admin, let alone my programming courses at college. I also want to at least get a small 'code portfolio' under my belt, and toss in a girlfriend... you get the idea :)
[07:57] <thegreedyturtle> and I still needs a job...
[07:58] <thegreedyturtle> hence, the easier it is to contribute, the more I'll be able to
[08:00] <thegreedyturtle> anyhoo, im off to work on the above list, i appreciate your ear
[09:18] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, check your mail
[09:22] <jsgotangco> ok reading now
[09:25] <jsgotangco> ok at least we'll know if we're go or no
[09:25] <Burgundavia> basically I am tired of talking this issue
[09:25] <Burgundavia> and jdub really really pissed me off
[09:26] <Burgundavia> we have hashed out nearly every detail, we just need the implementation now
[09:27] <jsgotangco> ill try out lenya myself later it looks mighty interesting
[09:27] <Burgundavia> lenya looks really really cool
[09:28] <Kinnison> Morning
[09:28] <Burgundavia> salut Kinnison
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I was arguing with more people today
[09:28] <Kinnison> heh
[09:28] <Burgundavia> this time it was jdub
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I aim high
[09:32] <Burgundavia> tomorrow it will be mark
[09:32] <Burgundavia> oh wait, already done that
[09:32] <Burgundavia> bugzilla bug 8516
[09:33] <Burgundavia> in other news, corey is looking forward to helping out more with malone
[09:33] <jsgotangco> spatial?
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:33] <jsgotangco> that was a nasty thread
[09:33] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu spatial breaks usablity
[09:33] <Kinnison> Yeah, I don't like it, but my father does
[09:33] <Burgundavia> the closing window way?
[09:33] <Kinnison> yep
[09:33] <Burgundavia> seems to split the community
[09:34] <Kinnison> aye
[09:34] <Burgundavia> ala the menu bar thing
[09:34] <Kinnison> having a config option in breezy is a *must* IMO
[09:34] <Burgundavia> window vs global
[10:26] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, check your mail
[10:26] <jsgotangco> wait
[10:29] <jsgotangco> it might work but it'll take some time
[10:29] <Burgundavia> I just sent that to the list to highlight the importance of getting our portal up
[11:29] <jsgotangco> brb
[01:43] <jdub> corey
[08:52] <HappyFool> i've written a page on the ubuntu wiki, and one of the comments I've made is that it *might* be unsafe to edit /etc/modules -- is this overly conservative? What could realistically go wrong? (page is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IntelFiveThreeSixEPModemHowto)
[08:52] <HappyFool> oh, and hello ;)
[09:09] <thegreedyturtle> meeting at #ubuntu-meeting
[09:10] <Burgundavia> indeed
[10:08] <mvirkkil> Any news about the CD shipments?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> we are not the correct people to ask
[10:10] <Burgundavia> and they will contact you when they ship, to confirm the addy
[10:11] <mvirkkil> Burgundavia: Just wondering. Didn't want to ask in ubuntu-devel either. Oh, well. Patience is a virtue :-)
[10:12] <Burgundavia> indeed


[09:02] <mup> PR snapd#12251 closed: tests: ensure that fakeinstaller put the seed into the right place <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12251>
[09:12] <mup> PR snapd#12249 closed: cmd/libsnap-confine-private: do not panic on chmod failure <Simple 😃> <Created by mardy> <Merged by mardy> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12249>
[09:32] <mup> PR snapd#12248 closed: fakeinstaller: format SystemDetails result with %+v <Skip spread> <Created by mwhudson> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12248>
[09:47] <mup> PR snapd#12242 closed: interfaces: steam-support allow additional mounts <Created by kenvandine> <Merged by mardy> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12242>
[11:38] <mup> PR snapd#12253 opened: o/devicestate,daemon: use the expiration date from the assertion in user-state and REST api (user-removal 4/n) <Created by Meulengracht> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12253>
[12:03] <mup> PR snapd#12247 closed: o/devicestate: support mounting ubuntu-save also on classic with modes <Run nested> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12247>
[12:13] <mup> PR snapd#12245 closed: overlord: introduce hold levels in the snapstate.Hold* APIs <Skip spread> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12245>
[12:13] <mup> PR snapd#12254 opened: tests: create partition table in fakeinstaller <Run nested> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12254>
[12:18] <mup> PR snapd#12255 opened: o/ifacestate: introduce DebugAutoConnectCheck hook <Skip spread> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12255>
[13:42] <mup> PR snapcraft#3946 opened: (do not merge) tests: wait for core20 snap to be ready <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3946>
[13:42] <mup> PR snapcraft#3947 opened: (do not merge) tests: control branch <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3947>
[14:33] <mup> PR snapd#12256 opened: tests: use test-snapd-swtpm instead of swtpm-mvo snap in nested helper <Run nested> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12256>
[15:19] <mup> PR snapd#12257 opened: autopkgtests: fix running autopkgtest on kinetic <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12257>
[15:44] <mup> PR snapd#12258 opened: o/snapstate: be consistent not creating per-snap save dirs for classic models <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12258>
[15:59] <mup> PR snapd#12259 opened: o/snapstate: drive-by: cleanup *CopySnapData signatures for consistency <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Cleanup :broom:> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12259>
[16:24] <mup> PR snapd#12250 closed: tests: add minimal-smoke test for UC22 and increase minimal RAM <Run nested> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12250>
[18:09] <mup> PR snapd#12259 closed: o/snapstate: drive-by: cleanup *CopySnapData signatures for consistency <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Cleanup :broom:> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12259>
[19:05] <mup> PR snapd#12243 closed: interfaces: allow access to icon subdirectories <Created by robert-ancell> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12243>
[19:10] <mup> PR snapd#12193 closed: seccomp: allow opening XDP sockets <Simple 😃> <Created by mardy> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12193>
[19:15] <mup> PR snapd#12198 closed: interfaces: add microceph interface <Needs Samuele review> <Created by stgraber> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12198>
[19:25] <mup> PR snapd#12227 closed: tests: use `snap prepare-image` in fde-on-classic mk-image.sh <Run nested> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12227>
[21:38] <mup> PR snapcraft#3948 opened: requirements: update <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3948>


[19:26] <srn_prgmr> Can anyone answer how the cloud images for 12.10 groovy are built, and if any of the source config files are available? All the documentation I can find seems to be out of date.
[19:27] <sarnold> srn_prgmr: one added wrinkle is that there's customized images for each cloud provider, too; if your questions are about one specific one, it imght help to know which one is being discussed
[19:28] <srn_prgmr> How about KVM
[19:28] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: have you seen https://git.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned/tree/
[19:30] <srn_prgmr> TJ-, no. I looked at https://code.launchpad.net/cloud-images and when I clicked on https://code.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned I got "This page does not exist, or you may not have permission to see it."
[19:30] <srn_prgmr> So I guess the problem is that link needs to be updated?
[19:31] <srn_prgmr> Specifically, the "code" tab for https://code.launchpad.net/cloud-images
[19:31] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: it links OK for me, to https://git.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned
[19:32] <srn_prgmr> TJ-, Yes I can see https://git.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned. The list of repositories for https://code.launchpad.net/cloud-images doesn't appear to include that exact reference is what I was trying to say.
[19:33] <srn_prgmr> I guess I could file a bug report against cloud-images to fix the link?
[19:34] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: that is where I followed it from, so that is weird. " lp:~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned  2020-10-07 "
[19:35] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: from the page that lands on, there's a "Browse the code"
[19:36] <srn_prgmr> TJ-, ok, that's weird. Are you logged in? I'm not.
[19:37] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: yes
[19:38] <srn_prgmr> TJ-: yes that link works for me if I'm logged in. I don't see why I should need to be logged in though...
[19:38] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: that's the issue
[19:39] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: probably related to https://launchpad.net/~cloudware
[19:39] <TJ-> srn_prgmr: "The information on this page is private."
[19:39] <srn_prgmr> I could see https://git.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned without being logged in
[19:40] <srn_prgmr> But https://code.launchpad.net/~cloudware/cloud-images/+git/ubuntu-old-fashioned requires being logged in, yeah
[19:41] <srn_prgmr> I'm not sure if the corrective action is fixing the link or prompting the user to log in
[19:41] <srn_prgmr> And if so, who that bug would be filed against
[19:41] <teward> sounds like a concern for #launchpad if you can view a private project/repo without being logged in
[19:41] <teward> since bugs in those cases are against Launchpad Itself and permissions managements
[19:49] <srn_prgmr> OK, thanks
[23:30] <halvors> Can i boot the ubuntu-installer into rescue mode to rescue a system?
[23:32] <sarnold> yeah I think you just hit alt+f2 once it's booted
[23:32] <halvors> ok thx
[23:47] <halvors> sarnold: That is the ubuntu server installer right?
[23:47] <sarnold> halvors: yeah, I'm pretty sure I used the alternate consoles on the installer a few months ago
[23:48] <halvors> worked, thanks
[23:48] <sarnold> woot


[01:38] <gnomefreak> anyone think they will have time to write a page wiki or not to change the window control buttons to right hand side in Lucid? there are a few ways to do it but im finishing up updates and im gone for a day or 3


[16:04]  * cjwatson writes a longish mail about thoughts for possible approaches to the debootstrappish part of bug 1135163, and then realises that he's argued himself round to the point where only a single option is plausible
[16:04] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1135163 in choose-mirror (Ubuntu) "d-i can't install against an https mirror" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1135163
[17:47] <infinity> cjwatson: Are you going to make --no-check-gpg imply --no-check-ssl, or add the latter as an explicit debootstrap option or some such?
[17:48] <infinity> cjwatson: (And then pass down a cmdline/preseed to trigger same, for people who don't care about baking certs into an installer or driver disk)
[17:49] <cjwatson> infinity: I already made debian-installer/allow_unauthenticated imply wget --no-check-certificate, indeed
[17:49] <cjwatson> At least for early stages; I still need to arrange to pass that to debootstrap, but it's easy enough
[17:49] <infinity> cjwatson: Sure, I meant for debootstrap.
[17:50] <cjwatson> debootstrap has a --no-check-certificate option, so it's just a matter of having base-installer pass it.  Next on my list
[17:50] <infinity> cjwatson: I wonder if debootrap might want a --no-check-ssl, and then a --no-check-sigs that implies -ssl/-gpg for people who want to skip all checking at once.
[17:50] <infinity> Oh, wait, it does?
[17:50] <infinity> Oh, so it does.
[17:50] <infinity> I've never noticed that before.
[17:51] <infinity> Cause I never thought it did SSL. :P
[17:51] <infinity> Neeeevermind, then.
[17:51] <cjwatson> Looks like it was added in 2010
[17:52] <infinity> Explains it.  I don't seem to notice new software features added after about 2002, unless they smack me in the face.
[17:53] <cjwatson> It may be worth having a separate preseedable question for disabling SSL checks, but I think I'll wait until somebody complains
[17:54] <infinity> My bet is that's what the big G would prefer.
[17:54] <infinity> Driver disks or custom installers are both harder than a preseed when you're installing on a network that you trust.
[17:54] <cjwatson> Hm, you may be right.  If so I should probably do that now rather than later
[17:55] <cjwatson> The SSL check is weaker than GPG for most purposes
[17:55] <infinity> Right, AFAIR, their reason for wanting SSL wasn't anonymisation or security, but purely that they prefer not to run any HTTP services at all.
[17:55] <infinity> So, having one unique snowflake HTTP Ubuntu mirror irks them.
[17:56] <infinity> But I doubt they care AT ALL if it provides any security on top of the GPG checks.
[18:00] <cjwatson> I shouldn't have mailed debian-mirrors@ about adding Mirrors.masterlist metadata for this - now I'm embroiled in arguments with people missing the point


[18:25] <jawn-smith> bdmurray: I have an autopkgtest question
[18:25] <jawn-smith> I know that a package in main can have test dependencies on universe packages
[18:26] <jawn-smith> but does that cause problems on i386? I'm looking at mysql-8.0 vs libevent
[18:26] <jawn-smith> and the d/tests/control file for mysql-8.0 has a universe package as a dependency. That universe package is arch independent so it should be installable on i386
[18:27] <jawn-smith> but the i386 tests are failing with a badpkg error. This only happens on i386
[18:27] <bdmurray> Is libevent available for i386?
[18:30] <jawn-smith> Hmm why libevent? The package it's claiming is not installable is libexpect-perl, not libevent
[18:30] <bdmurray> Because I didn't look that far into it and you didn't tell me it was libexpect-perl. ;-)
[18:31] <jawn-smith> that makes sense! libexpect-perl is arch independent, so it should be available on i386
[18:32] <bdmurray> Is this a new test dependency?
[18:32] <jawn-smith> pretty sure "arch independent" is the correct term. Its d/control specifies "Architecture: all" and it builds a _all.deb file
[18:32] <jawn-smith> Yes, it is
[18:32] <bdmurray> Maybe we need to look at this https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/i386.kinetic/i386+build-depends.sources
[18:33] <bdmurray> Found from this https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive-tools/tree/update-i386-whitelist
[18:34]  * jawn-smith reads
[18:38] <bdmurray> I do see libexpect-perl here https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/i386.kinetic/_home_ubuntu-archive_mirror_ubuntu_dists_kinetic_universe_binary-i386
[18:41] <jawn-smith> Okay, trying to understand all this whitelisting stuff


[00:16] <bcurtiswx> maco: Just missed the train 20 min wait :(
[00:20] <bcurtiswx> lfaraone: You at TOI as well?
[00:35] <maco> bcurtiswx: he's not
[00:36] <bcurtiswx> I remembered the stickers but not your adapter maco. Sry about that.
[00:36] <maco> i'll be in the US for a while :)
[00:41] <lfaraone> bcurtiswx: nope, sorry
[00:41] <lfaraone> maco: so its you, aaron, jbicha, kjcole, and..?
[00:42] <lfaraone> hmmm, after running the AIM→Gtalk import tool, I can't log in to Google Talk on Pidgin or Empathy. Delightful.
[00:42] <maco> lfaraone: and Pendulum
[00:43] <maco> and jbicha's wife and my boyfriend
[00:43] <lfaraone> ah, sorry to miss it all.
[01:00] <bcurtiswx> Stuck at metro center
[01:08] <bcurtiswx> Wow maco this is pretty bad here!
[01:08] <jbicha> and we're out
[01:08] <bcurtiswx> Out?
[01:11] <bcurtiswx> Who's leaving?
[01:13] <bcurtiswx> maco: Who left?
[01:34] <bcurtiswx>      Going up escalators
[01:39] <bcurtiswx> Nobody here. Hmm.
[03:22] <bcurtiswx> maco: What lamp r u talking about?
[03:33] <bcurtiswx> maco, nvm, i found a similar one on cragslist, it's not as blue but it's close enough. thx


[02:50] <Kohai_UT> I'm a newbie trying to install mythbuntu 9.04 beta.  When it gets to detecting hardware, my screen goes through several iterations of blank with red dots (messed up video) to a stop watch cursor icon.  then it hangs at a blank messed up screen.
[02:51] <Kohai_UT> It seems like it was trying to test video resolution support since sometimes the stop watch cursor icon looked stretched.  The machine is running, just seems like my video is out of whack.
[02:51] <Kohai_UT> Chipset is nvidia and I tried to isntall with both the nvidia driver and the open source driver option with the same results. Any ideas?
[02:57] <darthanubis> Kohai_UT, newbie and beta do not mix, why?
[02:57] <darthanubis> how much "testing" can a newbie perform anyway?
[02:58] <darthanubis> you should be using 8.10 which is STABLE
[03:00] <Kohai_UT> I should say I'm a newbie to mythtv, but not to linux.  I'm interested in features that are coming in .22 and may dable with some of the features in development.
[03:00] <Kohai_UT> I seem to be testing the install so far!
[03:15] <Kohai_UT> It looks like if I wait long enough (5+ min), it starts the rotating again.
[03:36] <Kohai_UT> I'll submit it as a bug against 9.04 beta.
[03:36] <Kohai_UT> Thanks, good night all
[03:52] <MythbuntuGuest88> !help
[03:52] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[05:08] <Stemming78> Problems with MYSQL - unable to get BACKEND running....
[05:09] <Stemming78> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/ffe827b2
[05:10] <Stemming78> Ran:    1. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0      2. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database       3. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common
[05:13] <Stemming78> anyone online that can answer this?  Unsure as to WHY a fresh installation has problems getting MYSQL to install properly
[05:15] <Stemming78> bump
[05:17] <Stemming78> PLEASE help...  Dont want to do another install!!!
[05:20] <Stemming78> I think this may be the problem (Step 1 - left blank for password)
[05:20] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, what are you doing different from the normal install?
[05:20] <Stemming78> mythbox@mythbox-backend:~$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database
[05:20] <Stemming78> Failed to connect to database (incorrect admin password)
[05:20] <Stemming78> Failed to create or modify database (incorrect admin username/password?)
[05:21] <Stemming78> Nothing...   FRESH installation and at Mythtv Setup - getting no unod found, then cannot login to database...   4th time installing software
[05:22] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, a blank password __will__ work but is not suggested for security reasons, my first question is,  is the frontend on the same machine as the backend?
[05:22] <Stemming78> What I changed on my box - 1. added a 2cond drive to run OS from   2. Another PVR 500 card (now have 2).    3.  New Motherboard w/ AMD processor
[05:22] <Stemming78> Previous box worked fine after installation....
[05:22] <Stemming78> Yes, this is a Frontend and Backend machine
[05:23] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, which release are you using? (8.10?)
[05:25] <Stemming78> Installed 8.10 and it crapped out (same problem) so I tried the 9.04 v6.2 beta
[05:25] <Stemming78> On 9.04 now -   much faster install as there is NO LONGER a graphical interface for 8.10 -  installs like 6.10
[05:27] <Stemming78> *cannot use the mouse for 8.10 with MUCH more settings to input
[05:29] <Stemming78> foxbuntu: just tried again to set the passwords/ip address (this time with a password)...  getting same error message Failed to connect to database (incorrect admin password)
[05:30] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, ah...leave the IP alone
[05:30] <Stemming78> I did...  Only this time set a MSQ root password
[05:30] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, on a Primary Master Backend (until you add remote frontends) the IP needs to be set to <IP_ADDRESS> in both IP fields
[05:31] <Stemming78> I have a remote frontend - just turned off atm
[05:31] <Stemming78> will try again...
[05:32] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, ok then if you have a remote frontend, did you enable the MythTV service during the install?
[05:32] <Stemming78> yes
[05:34] <Stemming78> OK,  now it is working.....  set the IP address to <IP_ADDRESS> and selected "NO" to remote frontend
[05:35] <Stemming78> Now, is there a setting in MCC that can be selected for Remote Frontend to work without having to change this again?
[05:35] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, are you using the root username and password in MythTV Backend Setup?
[05:36] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, for MySQL yes, but you will need to change the backend settings to allow frontends
[05:36] <Stemming78> no....   root is ///*** and mysql is *****12
[05:37] <Stemming78> explain
[05:37] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, what?
[05:37] <Stemming78> to get remote frontend to work
[05:37] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, in the MythTV setup where you are getting the error, what username are you using?
[05:38] <Stemming78> not sure...  it is working now though...  would have to have to go back and it fails agian
[05:39] <foxbuntu> if it fails when you go in, then its not working, its still configured wrong
[05:39] <Stemming78> ok, so go back in (  sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database ) and allow for remote frontend?
[05:40] <foxbuntu> no
[05:40] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, why are you trying to do things with dpkg-reconfigure to set the passwords?
[05:41] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, at this point you _have_ deviated from a normal installation
[05:41] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, not that we cant make that work...but I want you to understand where you are at
[05:41] <Stemming78> These are the steps I found to fix issue I was having (unable to login to database:  MYSQL)     1.  sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0     2. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database   3. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common
[05:42] <Stemming78> I realize that....  but fresh outof the box it wouldnt work
[05:42] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, thats a method to reset the mysql root user password and then reset the backend databased and apply those changes to mythtv-common
[05:42] <Stemming78> ok...  so what now?
[05:43] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, run: mythtv-setup
[05:44] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, actually, have you setup a static IP, or setup DHCP reservations on your network for your master backend?
[05:45] <Stemming78> Router has <IP_ADDRESS> set static for master backend
[05:45] <Stemming78> nothing set on the machine
[05:45] <Stemming78> *static
[05:45] <foxbuntu> ok
[05:46] <foxbuntu> then in mythtv-setup, General > set the IPs to that IP
[05:46] <foxbuntu> well before we do that...lets enable remote frontends
[05:46] <foxbuntu> open up MCC
[05:47] <Stemming78> k...  switching between screens so there will be a delay -   2 computers connected to the TV\
[05:48] <Stemming78> at MCC
[05:48] <foxbuntu> np
[05:48] <Stemming78> enable MYSQL Services?
[05:49] <foxbuntu> yes
[05:49] <foxbuntu> then click apply
[05:51] <Stemming78> OK - finished install...  Mythtv Setup now runnning ...   change both local and master IPs to <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:51] <Stemming78> * two fields
[05:51] <foxbuntu> yes
[05:53] <Stemming78> ok - 1. General is setup.....
[05:53] <Stemming78> Complete the other settings I suppost
[05:53] <Stemming78> *suppose
[05:53] <foxbuntu> yes
[05:54] <Stemming78> What do I use for the WinTV PVR500?  analog?
[05:55] <Stemming78> that is new to me...
[05:55] <foxbuntu> no, IVTV
[05:56] <foxbuntu> or its PVR-xxx or something similar
[05:56] <foxbuntu> not Analog V4L device
[05:57] <Stemming78> This is NEW settings from before...   with IVTV -   getting dev/video0,1,2   then jumps to dev/video24,25,26
[05:57] <Stemming78> PVR500 has 2 tuners...   Have 2 istalled
[05:58] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, you want, video0,1,2,3
[05:58] <Stemming78> I know....  dont have the 3 as an option
[05:58] <foxbuntu> try typing it in
[05:59] <foxbuntu> or from the terminal try: ls /dev/video*
[05:59] <foxbuntu> and see what exists
[06:00] <Stemming78> output:   http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m53c8645a
[06:00] <foxbuntu> so video3 is there
[06:00] <foxbuntu> just go ahead and type it into mythtv-setup then
[06:01] <Stemming78> put not an option in the IVTV
[06:01] <foxbuntu> what?
[06:01] <foxbuntu> for the video device you typed in: /dev/video3, correct?
[06:02] <Stemming78> typed it in and it reverted back to 0
[06:02] <Stemming78> ONCE setup that is....   Think the tuner may be of issue?
[06:03] <foxbuntu> what?
[06:03] <Stemming78> I can manage with 3 tuners....
[06:03] <foxbuntu> you tried to edit one that was already setup?
[06:04] <foxbuntu> you need to type it in when you are ADDING a new tuner
[06:04] <Stemming78> nm....  I got it.... oops
[06:04] <Stemming78> scrolled through a list
[06:04] <Stemming78> sorry fior the confusion
[06:05] <foxbuntu> ok
[06:13] <Stemming78> Ok....   Runnning Mythfilldatabase....
[06:13] <Stemming78> Now TRYING to mount the MOVIES and VIDEOS that are stored on my Vista box....
[06:14] <Stemming78> Here is what I have done in the past --  rusty....  Maybe I am missing something
[06:14] <Stemming78> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m3e2cbbbf
[06:15] <Stemming78> Do I need to cmodify exports?
[06:15] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, the filesystem should be smbfs
[06:15] <Stemming78> ?
[06:16] <Stemming78> not cifs
[06:16] <foxbuntu> cifs in your fstab needs changed to smbfs
[06:16] <Stemming78> thanks
[06:16] <Stemming78> same error
[06:19] <Stemming78> Fstab file:   http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m528c9158
[06:20] <Stemming78> .smbcredentials file:   http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m19f0b4de
[06:21] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
[06:24] <Stemming78> thanks...  will mess with that.
[06:25] <Stemming78> BTW, I know you are in the building business...  How is the company going?
[06:26] <Stemming78> Also, should mention there is a new way to network if you havent already heard about them -  Power Over Ethernet.
[06:26] <Stemming78> Link to supposedly the best ones on the market.
[06:26] <Stemming78> http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BL-PA100KTA-Ethernet-Definition-Communication/dp/B000FZXHGO
[06:30] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, I know all about those networking technologies
[06:30] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, I am in beta testing with my products
[06:31] <foxbuntu> Stemming78, I have hardware that fits my insane requirements finally and I am happy with how it works
[06:35] <Stemming78> very good...  frind of mine just told me about them... thought I would pass the info on.
[12:51] <mnabil> guys , how can i preconfigure ubuntu deb package with know user name and password for mysql  ,or how can i do this in the preseed file
[14:54] <MythbuntuGuest72> morning
[14:55] <MythbuntuGuest72> I am having trouble setting up my remote.  I am using a homebrew serial receiver.
[14:55] <MythbuntuGuest72> IT was working in mythbuntu just fine until last night
[14:56] <MythbuntuGuest72> I was pluging somthing into a different serial port and had to set uart to 16550A
[14:57] <MythbuntuGuest72> once that was done, lirc stopped working.  I reset all serial ports back to uart none, but no joy
[14:58] <MythbuntuGuest72> Lirc starts and when running irw or irrecord, i can see them attaching to lircd
[14:59] <MythbuntuGuest72> but irw does nothing on button press and irrecord bails after 10 seconds of not seeing button presses (but they are being pressed)
[15:00] <MythbuntuGuest72> im pulling my hair out, I have followed http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Serial_Lirc_Install with no sucess
[15:00] <MythbuntuGuest72> helpers?
[15:48] <Aksor> hi guys
[15:48] <Aksor> I really need some help
[15:49] <Aksor> I'm new to linux and I made the mistake of installing powersave and mythbuntu will not boot now
[15:51] <Aksor> I get past the logo and then it gets a cursor blinking in the top left corner then drops down to the (ramfs) prompt telling me it can't find init
[15:52] <Aksor> I can mount the disk using the live cd but not sure what to do from there
[16:38] <crxlpy> hey superm1 just got the trunk mytharchive, making an iso now. no errors so far w00000t
[16:48] <crxlpy> just thought I would give feedback since you helped me out last week
[17:49] <MythbuntuGuest00> anybody on?
[17:50] <MythbuntuGuest00> !help
[17:50] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[17:51] <Aksor> Must be a sunday everybody still sleeping
[17:51] <Aksor> never mind I fixed my own problems
[18:25] <Guest83135> Hi! I'm a Fedora user sorry... anyway as I can't find any #Fedora-mythtv channel I'm posting here...
[18:27] <rhpot1991> Guest83135: you'd be better off in #mythtv-users
[18:27] <Guest83135>  I have a problem, I created a channels.conf file using the  scan utility... when I try to import it into mythtv (0.21) it crashes the application... any suggestion?
[18:27] <Guest83135> rhport1991: ok, thanks...
[22:46] <bmsleight> Hi, I have been running my myth machine for a about three years. Time for a hardware upgrade. I am thinking of 3 of (Hauppauge Nova-T 500 dual digital TV tuner) - giving 6 unique feeds. To give extra flexibility or even more cards.   So the question is how many tuner cards is silly ?


[11:57] <akgraner> elky, pleia2 thanks for adding you wikis to the nominations page - Let's see more wikis getting added! Another exciting cycle ahead for the UW Project!
[15:36] <AlanBell> http://www.paulmellors.net/2010/05/making-the-change
[17:20] <czajkowski> alooha
[17:25] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: what say? floor the comments with suggestions? ;)
[17:25] <nigelbabu> I'd say all of the above plus listen to buuntu-uk podcasts :D
[17:49] <AlanBell> I was just posting it for general interest
[18:06] <elky> oh dear, amber's been shuffled thanks to the new eyalolololololkul eruption it seems
[18:24] <JanC> yeah, some time ago, and with her 11 other people
[18:26] <Pendulum> so far pleia2 and I are both being told our flights are on
[18:34] <JanC> yeah, your airline company probably bribed the other one to cancel their flight so yours could go through  ;)
[18:42] <maco> Pendulum: flights from dc are on as well
[19:34] <contrary> Europython conference in Birmingham UK has obtained some grant funding for women computer scientists.  For more info go to http://wiki.europython.eu/GoogleDiversity
[19:35] <contrary> Can someone tell me how I can post this information on the ubuntu women wiki?
[19:36] <czajkowski> contrary: you can post it to the mailing list?
[19:37] <czajkowski> contrary: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women
[19:38] <contrary> thanks.  I was looking for that
[19:38] <czajkowski> no problem
[19:41] <contrary> I have sent a message to the mailing list.  Just hope it gets sent out.
[19:41] <contrary> There seem to be an awful lot of male names on the women.ubuntu chat
[19:44] <AlanBell> true enough
[19:45] <czajkowski> contrary: there are but they are welcome here
[19:46] <czajkowski> contrary: the mail may get held for moderaton unless you've joined the list
[19:46] <czajkowski> but it shouldn't take too long to get through
[19:47] <contrary> czajkowski: thank you
[19:47] <contrary> AlanBell: why?
[19:48] <czajkowski> contrary: why not , they are helpful and spread the ubuntu word and are often key in introducing more women to the teams
[19:48] <maco> we need our allies :)
[19:48] <contrary> I am not saying they should not be here, I was just curious.
[19:49] <AlanBell> because it is a project to make Ubuntu more welcoming to women and support the women who are in the community, this is something that seems like a good idea to me
[19:49] <AlanBell> it was a good question, don't worry!
[19:49] <contrary> Hold on, I was not trying to exclude, I was just wondering why.  Now I know
[19:50] <maco> we know. just explaining
[19:50] <AlanBell> I want Ubuntu to be used by the mainstream population, which is going to mean that the community has to reflect the normal population
[19:50] <contrary> Well I think I have managed to convert at least one person to Ubuntu - trouble is everyone thinks Windows is the ONLY OS.
[19:50] <AlanBell> currently it doesn't, which is a bug that the team is fixing
[19:51] <contrary> Well I am available as the non-techie tester for anything.  Learnt today how to navigate my directories through the terminal.
[19:52] <maco> yay :)
[19:52] <maco> that's what akgraner said a year and a bit ago too :P now she's writing for Ubuntu User magazine and running Ubuntu Women and everything
[19:53] <AlanBell> contrary: what country are you in, there is probably a local team we could point you towards in addition to this one
[19:53] <contrary> UK
[19:53] <AlanBell> oh, easy! #ubuntu-uk I am from the UK
[19:53] <contrary> I am only just learning about irc.  Must admit I am really enjoying it
[19:54] <AlanBell> we have quite a large and active crowd in the UK
[19:54] <contrary> My son needed a computer for university.  Couldn't afford to buy a new one so decided to build his own.  Found ubuntu as a free OS.  The rst is history
[19:55] <AlanBell> cool
[19:55] <contrary> No windows computers at all in our house - except my work laptop
[19:56] <AlanBell> Windows is getting to the point where it is "just for work" for a lot of people
[19:56]  * JanC has no Windows computers in house or anywhere else ☺
[19:56] <AlanBell> I don't either
[19:56] <contrary> You are right.  When we could choose our Internet browsers I always used Mozilla.  Whenever IT guys came to the office to upgrade somethign they also selectedit over IE
[19:56] <czajkowski> contrary: good to hear
[19:56] <czajkowski> contrary: where abouts in the uk are you based?
[19:57] <contrary> Birmingham.
[19:57] <czajkowski> no sign yet of your mail....
[19:57] <maco> is that were popey lives?
[19:57] <czajkowski> maco: nope
[19:57] <czajkowski> farnborogh
[19:57]  * maco google maps
[19:57] <contrary> I used to live near F'boro
[19:57] <AlanBell> contrary: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam
[19:58]  * AlanBell lives in Farnham
[19:58]  * czajkowski is in Dublin
[19:58] <maco> hey birmingham's near coventry!
[19:59] <maco> yay ska! :)
[19:59] <contrary> Used to live in Aldershot.
[19:59] <contrary> Birmingham is near everywhere - it is in the middle of the country
[19:59] <maco> contrary: well coventry is in equally big text close to birmingham on google maps :P
[19:59] <AlanBell> 'near' is a flexible concept to our American friends
[20:00] <contrary> ha ha.  Not using OSM?  Mappa Mercia is a complete map of the Midlands - well most of it
[20:00] <maco> looks like 20mi on the map...
[20:00] <maco> 20mi is near...
[20:00] <AlanBell> maco: ok, that is near
[20:01] <contrary> http://mappa-mercia.org/standard-map.shtml
[20:01] <contrary> who lives in coventry
[20:01] <maco> i need to print out a UK map, label cities ive heard of, and then put little cut-outs of people's hackergotchis near them
[20:01] <AlanBell> contrary: ask in #ubuntu-uk
[20:02] <maco> contrary: one of my fave ska bands is from coventry
[20:02] <maco> The Specials ... aka ... The Special AKA
[20:02] <JanC> hehe
[20:04] <JanC> maco: you should check out The Employees!
[20:05] <JanC> (the Belgian band of that name)
[20:06] <JanC> The Offspring even stole one of their songs during the 1990s  ;)
[20:06] <contrary> have subscribed to the ubuntu uk mailing list.  Will have to go - nice food calling.  Bye everyone.  Nice to meet you
[20:07] <AlanBell> o/


[15:46] <whitman> Hi.
[15:47] <whitman> I have a little problem, can anyone help me?
[15:48] <whitman> Upgrading 14 lts to 16 lts, and afther the upgrade, i can't logging in to session.
[15:50] <whitman> It put me an error message: wrong password.
[15:51] <whitman> In console no errors.
[15:52] <OvenWerks> Not having done an upgrade (I installed and moved home over) I am not sure.
[15:52] <krytarik> whitman: Probably wrong keyboard layout on the login screen then.
[15:52] <OvenWerks> there are however likely to be more answers in #xubuntu (which has the same DE)
[15:53] <OvenWerks> krytarik: that makes sense
[15:55] <whitman> My keyboard layout befor upgrade is Hungarian, and the "guest" session use it.
[15:56] <whitman> So i need to backup home directory into safe.....
[15:57] <OvenWerks> The login screen has a keyboard setting, what does it say you have now?
[15:57] <OvenWerks> Maybe it is not in line with system (console should be system)
[15:59] <whitman> I'm from 14.04 live now, try to backup.
[16:01] <whitman> My password not contains special characters, just simply characters and numbers. Eg: StupidDog22.
[16:02] <whitman> I think those characters same in my keyboard like in english.
[16:03] <whitman> Ok, thanks a lot of your help.
[16:04] <whitman> Bye.
[16:04] <krytarik> whitman: Make sure the numbers are taken.
[16:04] <whitman> The numbers....
[16:05] <whitman> I type numbers from numeric keypad (numlock status on.)
[16:05] <krytarik> Alright then.
[16:06] <whitman> Thanks, i go to trying.... :)
[16:06] <whitman> Bye.