[04:24] <mup> Bug #1724553 changed: maas shows negative resources in pods <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724553>
[04:30] <mup> Bug #1724553 opened: maas shows negative resources in pods <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724553>
[04:33] <mup> Bug #1724553 changed: maas shows negative resources in pods <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724553>
[19:11] <Loose_> For some reason my laptops will not connect to the wifi at the library, also the librarian does not know linux but my cell phone is connecting
[19:13] <Loose_> I used another laptop with windows and it said the ip needs to be configured


[03:17] <mapp|work> this sucks, dns isnt working at work
[06:58] <ali1234> Azelphur: djy1991 just uploaded a video with base64 content in the description. it appears to be an executable file. you know anything about this? some valve ARG happening?
[06:58] <ali1234> the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmldfFmv_EU
[07:17] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:41] <knightwise> morning everyon e
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's the NSA/CIA talking to people in the field
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: 21st century number stations
[07:48] <ali1234> on djy's channel?
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea who that is
[07:49] <MooDoo> I watch defcon videos and it was interesting the general of the NSA on there, quite an interesting watch
[07:50] <diddledan> hi every body
[07:50]  * diddledan awaits dr nick reference
[07:50] <MooDoo> hi
[07:50] <diddledan> fial
[07:50] <diddledan> fail*
[07:51] <diddledan> it goes: "hi dr nick!"
[07:51] <diddledan> </simpsons fail>
[07:52] <MooDoo> i have no idea what you're talking about ;)
[07:53] <diddledan> cartoon about a family of yellow people
[07:54] <diddledan> the son of the family insists that people eat his shorts
[07:54] <MooDoo> sorry i know who they are, no idea about the dr nick reference, shall I go back to sleep?
[07:54] <diddledan> lol
[07:55] <diddledan> you have to have seen quite alot to catch the few episodes he actually appears in
[07:55] <diddledan> one of his lines that I remember well is "INflammable means flammable?!"
[07:56] <diddledan> that line was uttered after the inflammable container exdploded
[07:56] <diddledan> --d
[08:06] <diplo> Morning all
[08:06] <gordonjcp> "flammbable" isn't a real word
[08:06] <gordonjcp> of course, neither is "flammable"
[08:06] <gordonjcp> I reall must clean this keyboard
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/washable-keyboard-k310
[08:13] <AlanBell> diddledan: valuable and invaluable are also not opposites
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> famous and infamous?
[08:15] <diddledan> I thought the same about decent and indecent, too, but apparently exposure of one kind is less legal than the other
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "He got arrested for decent exposure"? Must've been really trying 8-)
[08:15] <diddledan> lol
[08:20] <shauno> I've always wondered that about 'terrific'.  horror->horrific, terror->terrific.  why is terrific a good thing?
[08:23] <shauno> my task this morning; figure out how to reply to an email without just insulting him.  this is not going to be a fun morning
[08:25] <diplo> shauno: I just don't bother or get someone else to do it as I can't do that.. going to get me sacked one day
[08:27] <knightwise> morning everyone
[08:27]  * knightwise is trying to find a way to stream his iTunes library over the web
[08:29] <shauno> we've made a feature request that "appliance" expose the option to use a http-proxy.  I got the reply "If you provide the DNS server to the <appliance> it must resolve the issue. <web-service> data will be re-directed through DNS server and then proxy server."
[08:32] <shauno> my favourite part being that he's sent a screenshot of his laptop (not "appliance") resolving timesofindia.com as "explanation"
[08:37] <diplo> I'd probably have replied with something like 'do you know what you're talking about' :)
[08:38] <shauno> yeah, that's one of few options I've come up with that don't start with "what the"
[08:40] <diplo> It really sucks doesn't it, one of my old colleages has started a job in london, went from we did everything to a corporate env with dbadmins/linux/window admins etc
[08:41] <diplo> Most people he deals with don't really have a clue, it's got to the point now that they have given him root/admin access to all the servers and he then writes docs for them :/
[08:42] <shauno> I know it's a well-beaten horse, but I'm still not happy that our firmware dev got moved from missouri to bangalore
[08:42] <diddledan> keys to the kingdom!
[08:43] <diddledan> shauno: did the guys move with the job or did the job move to new guys?
[08:43] <shauno> the role moved, the bodies didn't
[08:43] <diddledan> fudge
[08:43] <diddledan> so they completely nuked an entire department?
[08:43] <diddledan> that sucks
[08:44] <MooDoo> sigh.
[08:44] <diddledan> it's not so bad if you can retain the same staffing
[08:44] <diddledan> but to braindrain an entire department and somehow train a new department to do the same job really doesn't make sense
[08:45] <diddledan> training that new department without any of the old department to offer advice*
[08:45] <shauno> it wasn't retraining, it was 'mutualization', when we were swallowed whole by a parent company
[08:45] <MooDoo> it's all about cost, why pay for local staff, when you can get cheaper labour a continent awaty
[08:47] <diddledan> eek it's light outside
[08:47] <diddledan> -_-
[08:47] <diplo> skills I guess, that's the other issue with my mate in london. they all have 'a indian' who works for them that they pass off not so nice work
[08:48] <diplo> But the problem with it is that they're fairly rubbish on the whole from what he's found out, but... htey cost 1/10th the cost of most UK staff
[08:50] <shauno> we have some who are totally worth their weight
[08:51] <diddledan> me?
[08:52] <diddledan> oh hang, on. good point.
[08:52] <diddledan> wrong , placement
[08:55] <MooDoo> I know a company that outsourced all their work to india, made most of their workforce redundant....they had to grovel to get their staff back when their biggest client threatened to leave them if they didn't move it all back as the outsourcing company were pitiful.
[08:56] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: :-)
[09:29] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Poinsettia Day! :-D
[09:30] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:30] <foobarry> an employer choose a wood-free paper for sustainability but the paper in made in india, hence massive carbon footprint :(
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> enviro-madness!
[09:31] <shauno> wood-free paper sounds .. I must google this.  It just reminds me of the terrible waxpaper-like TP we used to have at school
[09:33] <diddledan> shauno: plastic - made of oil
[09:33] <diddledan> :-p
[09:34] <diddledan> and, shauno , you actually ventured far enough to be using TP in a school toilet?!
[09:34] <foobarry> its called "harvest"
[09:35] <diddledan> hold it in until you get home!
[09:37] <shauno> I never had that issue.  you must have some proper dodgy schools down south :p
[09:37] <diddledan> lol
[09:38] <diddledan> put it this way, you daren't try and flush the mess away
[09:38] <foobarry> our school toilets were like pub toilets or football ground toilets ..open sewers
[09:38] <diddledan> that's a n00b mistake
[09:38] <Myrtti> shauno: bamboo or recycled paper
[09:39] <diddledan> instead of disappearing down the drain it bubbles up and out over your feet
[09:39] <diddledan> sorry for the visuals
[09:40] <diddledan> I never have understood why toilet makers make the cistern hold more water than can fit in the bowl if the bowl wasn't to empty at all
[09:40] <foobarry> i have memories of the flooded toilet floors so clearly that you would just have to stand at the entrance and get your wanger out and just pee onto the puddle
[09:40] <diddledan> foobarry: lol
[09:40] <Myrtti> diddledan: or have an overflow drain like sinks do
[09:40] <foobarry> i still have recurring dreams about slipping over on filthy toilets
[09:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Any budding beekeepers?: http://opensource.com/life/13/12/open-source-beehive
[09:41] <ali1234> foobarry: it has to, because physics
[09:41] <ali1234> er, i mean diddledan
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: didn't sabdfl have a hive/colony?
[09:42] <xnox> he is also allergic to bees =)
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently yes MartijnVdS
[09:42] <AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1115
[09:44] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: emmajane would...
[09:44] <MooDoo> they could of branded it with a ubuntu logo ;)
[09:44] <MooDoo> Myrtti: emmajane would of knitted it ;)
[09:45] <Myrtti> MooDoo: or sewn
[09:45] <MooDoo> Myrtti: or even crochet ;)
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> My wife's dad used to keep bees and we'd quite like to, but our youngest child has severe allergies so it's probably not a good idea.
[09:45] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: s/of/have/
[09:46] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: thanks :p
[09:46] <SuperMatt> sorry to do that, but it drives me up the wall >.<
[09:46] <SuperMatt> that and "can I get"
[09:46] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: it's fine, I don't mind being rediculed infront of my peers :)
[09:46] <SuperMatt> \o/
[09:47] <MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[09:47] <MooDoo>  :)
[09:47] <Myrtti> SuperMatt: I hereby give you permission to correct my English language anytime, anywhere
[09:47] <SuperMatt> Oh, you don't want that
[09:47] <SuperMatt> I'm wrong in a number of places
[09:47] <Myrtti> SuperMatt: take it as a challenge
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you can always defer to the Queen, of course
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: hah - we have a bit of a meme in our pub about that - every time a newcomer comes in and says "can I get a pint of ..." everyone tells them no and why.
[09:48] <MooDoo> I wish people would talk proper like what I does.
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: aren't you from halfway oop norf though?
[09:48] <SuperMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: that's brilliant
[09:49] <SuperMatt> I assume you go with "because you're not allowed behind the bar"?
[09:49] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nottingham, so should be saying things like "ayup me duck"
[09:49] <shauno> they've always irked me.  "I'll have" more than "can I get", but still
[09:49] <Myrtti> I had to explain the difference between immaterial substances and set objects to D the other day when he was reading over my shoulder my Finnish discussion over what kind of Baileys are available at Tescos
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah, so not quite the north, but also not quite the middle anymore ;)
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thet kind of thing - then we say you may drink if you ask properly "Please may I have... " would be a good start! So sometimes newcomers don't stay very long ;-)
[09:50] <SuperMatt> hahaha
[09:50] <MooDoo> http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/french-cafe-fed-up-with-rushed-customers-begins-charging-more-for-rudeness/story-fn93ypt9-1226781130323
[09:50] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: read that :D
[09:51] <Myrtti> different referencing pronouns for expressing "I've not seen any special Baileys at the store"
[09:51] <SuperMatt> Myrtti: "Tescos" also winds me up...
[09:51] <SuperMatt> because it's Tesco
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: or Americans and their "legos"
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: That's great!
[09:51] <Myrtti> SuperMatt: yes, I left that there on purpose ;-)
[09:51] <SuperMatt> oh god yeah, legos just sounds wrong
[09:51] <shauno> "can I get" is a simple yes/no question, surely?
[09:51] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: we need a bot in here, for people that say "can any one help" and if no please, pass them to #ubuntu ;)
[09:52] <foobarry> every nightclub deserves an s on the end
[09:52] <MooDoo> shauno: it sounds wrong.
[09:52] <MooDoo> s/get/have
[09:52] <foobarry> "can i get" is plain rude. "please could i have.."
[09:52] <SuperMatt> foobarry: they only get an s on the end because the people that attend are normally commoners. filthy filthy commoners.
[09:52] <foobarry> colloquialists
[09:52] <shauno> 'get' is accurate, if the next step is to point them to the offie ;)
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> shauno: "can I get a pint?" -> "can I help myself to one?"; "can I have a pint?" -> "would you mind doing it for me?"
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's not rude, it just means you you are asking if you can retrieve whatever it is yourself.
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> even *I* know that :P
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> In a self-service diy warehouse it is probably right.
[09:53] <foobarry> its an americanism, therefore lame
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> The assistant would let you know where you can go and get said item.
[09:54] <shauno> "I'll have" is my pet hate.  it only actually works if someone else is offering
[09:54]  * Myrtti gets popcorn
[09:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, Myrtti. Isn't it a bit early for popcorn?
[09:55] <SuperMatt> It's never too early
[09:55] <SuperMatt> the real question is: salt or sweet?
[09:55] <foobarry> "i'll have" only works when you ask your mates what beers they are having
[09:55] <SuperMatt> I'm being badgered to try these fancy new combination packs of salt and sweet
[09:55] <SuperMatt> but I remain unconvinced
[09:55] <foobarry> SuperMatt: rackspace?
[09:55] <SuperMatt> no news yet!
[09:55] <foobarry> :(
[09:55] <Myrtti> SuperMatt: there is no sweet popcorn in Finland
[09:56] <Myrtti> so I've not really learnt to eat it
[09:56] <foobarry> butterkist ra ra ra
[09:56] <shauno> yay, I have new Pi (which is also incorrect, but the plural of .. pis? looks awkward)
[09:56] <SuperMatt> I've had a lot of good feedback, but no offer
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: is there plain popcorn? Is there sugar/syrup?
[09:56] <SuperMatt> the recruiter is convinced that they're just waiting for signoff to hire me
[09:56] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: salty, or butter
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: no "nothing"?
[09:56] <SuperMatt> oh god, I don't want butter on my popcorn
[09:56] <SuperMatt> MADNESS
[09:56] <foobarry> rackspace use recruiters?
[09:56] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: not really, unless you pop it in a pan at home
[09:57] <Myrtti> or pop corn machine at home
[09:57] <SuperMatt> well they don't really hire for specific roles, so I guess they have recruiters which go hunting down the best people for them
[09:57] <foobarry> my wife asked for a £30 popcorn machine
[09:57] <SuperMatt> it's a case of "go and find me the best" rather than "here's a role, try and find someone to fit it"
[09:58] <foobarry> they are far away in hayes or somewhere?
[09:58] <SuperMatt> yup yup
[09:58] <SuperMatt> it'll be an interesting commute
[10:00] <SuperMatt> but totally worth it for the name on my cv ;)
[10:12] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: did you hear from RS?
[10:13] <SuperMatt> nope, nothing yet
[10:13] <MooDoo> how rude
[10:13] <SuperMatt> the general gist is that they haven't said no yet, so chances are there's delays getting sign off for me
[10:14] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: or like other companies, they are rude and don't reply to unsuccessful applicants, but still keeping my fingers crossed fro you.
[10:14] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: do you have RHCE?
[10:14] <SuperMatt> RHCSA
[10:14]  * MartijnVdS has RSA4096
[10:14] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: oooo
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> also ECDSA
[10:14] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: that's a typing exam lol
[10:14] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: it's all through a recruitment agency, so the recruiter is constantly badgering racksapce
[10:15]  * diplo keeps debating getting some quali's
[10:15] <diplo> My company don't do any training of any sort ever
[10:15] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: ah!
[10:15] <SuperMatt> so if it really was a no, we'd have an answer by now
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "please mash some keys to get more random bits"
[10:15] <diplo> So will be self paid :/
[10:15] <SuperMatt> but they've called me every day this week
[10:15] <SuperMatt> I just hope I head today so I can hand in my notice today as I'm off tomorrow
[10:15] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I remember doing RSA2 myself many moons ago, plenty of putting my fingers on the home keys lol
[10:15] <SuperMatt> I don't want to wait till monday as my notice period is a month and it'd mean starting midweek or something
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: oh I meant my GPG key
[10:16] <MooDoo> diplo: yeah I have to self train my self, but not sure, RHCE or MSCITP?
[10:17] <diplo> I'm going for RHCE eventually, recently got training material.
[10:17] <MooDoo> diplo: where you get that from?  was it a book?
[10:18] <diplo> I have an old book, and training material was from a friend
[10:19] <mycziii> hi guys
[10:19] <diplo> Well a couple of books, I can't afford to get newer ones yet, but if I get the gist of all the other stuff first and then when I'm a little more flush get an updated one
[10:21] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:21] <MooDoo> diplo: sounds like a plan
[10:21] <MooDoo> mycziii: brobostigon hello :)
[10:21] <brobostigon> :)
[10:22] <Myrtti> whee, one of D's Christmas presents sorted, \o/ http://shop.theaa.com/store/car-kits/aa-emergency-breakdown-and-touring-kit just arrived (ironically from Littlehampton where we'll be going for the holidays)
[10:22] <mycziii> MooDoo: :-)
[10:22] <popey> SuperMatt: are you sure your notice period isn't four weeks?
[10:22] <SuperMatt> I'm pretty certain it's a month
[10:23] <SuperMatt> because I was stung by it in my last place, so I double checked here
[10:23] <popey> starting a job mid-week isn't the worst thing in the world
[10:23] <SuperMatt> I know
[10:23] <SuperMatt> but it'd be nice to start on a monday
[10:23] <SuperMatt> have a nice refreshing weekend
[10:23] <Myrtti> I always try to make a point of starting on the first working day of the month
[10:24] <SuperMatt> Myrtti: sure, it's good for ensuring payday goes smoothly
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> so do I, but at this job they told me "Your contract starts on the first, but as that's a Friday, you won't have to come in until the 4th"
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> so I got a free day out of it! ;)
[10:25] <SuperMatt> nice work
[10:25] <popey> heh
[10:25] <popey> starting mid week means you dont have the commute pressure of monday morning
[10:25] <popey> and people being too busy on a monday to help you get started
[10:25] <popey> IMO
[10:25] <popey> IME
[10:25] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: We started my first Monday with a sprint planning. Worked great :)
[10:26] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:26] <popey> My first day at Canonical was me flying to Florida
[10:26] <SuperMatt> I'm sad that I hadn't heard back earlier in the week, tbh, because it would have been the crowning glory of that week
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: nice!
[10:26] <SuperMatt> I had such an expic week running from last thursday to tuesday, I just wanted the job offer to top it off
[10:26] <SuperMatt> sads that it didn't happen like that
[10:45] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:45] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:54] <davmor2> MooDoo: is it snowing up norff yet?
[10:55] <MooDoo> nah just a bit damp
[11:04] <MooDoo> and cold in the morning.
[11:18] <directhex> did the latest chromium update break flash?
[11:25] <AlanBell> directhex: seems ok in 31.0.1650.63
[11:25] <dwatkins> if it did, it's Google's bundled version of Flash
[11:26] <dwatkins> directhex: what's breaking?
[11:26] <directhex> dwatkins, chromium uses flashplugin. chrome uses google flash
[11:26] <directhex> dwatkins, no flash works. it's not in about:plugins
[11:26] <dwatkins> oh sorry, misread your original comment directhex
[11:27] <dwatkins> what Ubuntu version?
[11:27] <dwatkins> also, I assume you installed Chromium via apt-get or similar.
[11:27] <dwatkins> I'm guessing it has a PPA, it's been a while since I installed it
[11:27] <directhex> ok, fixed it with more aggressive "kill" usage
[11:27] <dwatkins> woot
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> kill --with=fire
[11:28] <dwatkins> My laptop's currently running 12.04 to try and reproduce a flash problem where the "let me use the microphone" dialog can't be dismissed
[11:29] <ali1234> that is an old and well known bug
[11:29] <dwatkins> it is, ali1234? what should I search for to find out more, please?
[11:29] <ali1234> hang on i'm looking for the bug
[11:29] <dwatkins> thanks
[11:30] <bigcalm> davmor2: morning. Did you think the curries were a little thin last night?
[11:30] <ali1234> bug 995699
[11:30] <dwatkins> thanks ali1234 :)
[11:31] <ali1234> it's a compiz bug btw...
[11:33] <popey> bug 1260287
[11:33] <popey> does that lock up for everyone?
[11:33] <directhex> my penultimate ps3 game has arrived, courtesy amazon and popey
[11:33] <popey> moi?
[11:34] <directhex>      Selected Payment Method: Gift Certificate/Card (£16.99)
[11:34] <popey> oh ☻
[11:34] <popey> yay
[11:35] <popey> what did you get?
[11:35] <directhex>      Ni No Kuni - Wrath of the White Witch (PS3)
[11:35] <directhex> a JRPG animated by legendary japanese company Studio Ghibli
[11:35] <ali1234> whaaaaaaaaat?
[11:35] <MartijnVdS>   /me youtubes
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> it looks amazing
[11:36] <ali1234> i assume it's in english?
[11:36] <popey> heh, looks cute
[11:36] <popey> the trailer was english
[11:36] <directhex> if you're some kind of mainstream dubbed user, rather than subtitles... </hipster>
[11:37] <popey> heh
[11:37] <ali1234> loads of great games don't get translated at all :(
[11:37] <popey> My ex-boss has a daughter who learned Japanese after getting into the game culture.
[11:37] <ali1234> i might have to buy a ps3 for this
[11:37] <popey> She now works as a JP/EN translator I believe
[11:38] <popey> she's was big into jp DS games
[11:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: I think mine worked out to be a very expensive Curry :)
[11:38] <directhex> ali1234, i didn't see you as the type
[11:38] <ali1234> why not? i love stuff like this
[11:38] <bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, not my idea to just split the bill like that :S
[11:38] <directhex> ali1234, i'm ending my involvement with last-gen purchases. am done buying 360 games, and now only have one ps3 game left to buy before drawing a line under my ps3 collection
[11:39] <davmor2> bigcalm: we always do that it's just easier
[11:39] <daftykins> directhex: what's the last?
[11:39] <directhex> daftykins, the last of us!
[11:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: you need to have more expensive tastes :D
[11:39] <ali1234> like i said the other day, i only buy consoles when they are EOL, and therefore cheap
[11:39] <directhex> daftykins, the ordering decided for maximum irony
[11:40] <popey> yeah, i rarely buy new, ouya is the exception
[11:40] <daftykins> :D
[11:40] <daftykins> that doesn't work when you want to play games with friends
[11:40] <daftykins> *upon* said consoles
[11:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: but normally I pay maybe £5 extra, this time it was more like £10 but I don't really mind cause it was a nice evening for everyone which was the important bit, did Hayley have a nice time?
[11:41] <daftykins> davmor2: the dreaded divided curry cost, eh?
[11:41] <Myrtti> ali1234: yeah it's in English
[11:41] <bigcalm> davmor2: she did indeed. As did I :) Hayley is always worried before attending such events. After we left, she said she was so glad that she did attend
[11:41] <Myrtti> we bought it but it wasn't quite as fun as we thought
[11:42] <ali1234> aw :(
[11:42] <davmor2> bigcalm: good
[11:42] <Myrtti> it's basically glorified Pokemon
[11:42] <popey> We had Bunny Chow for tea last night.
[11:42] <popey> Kids loved it
[11:42] <Myrtti> or Final Fantasy or Lufia
[11:42] <popey> over xmas I plan to get the kids eating all kinds of different things
[11:42] <davmor2> popey: you chowed on bunny that's just not right ;)
[11:43] <popey> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Quarter_Mutton_Bunny_Chow.jpg
[11:43] <ali1234> popey: cannot reproduce your bug on saucy, also the UI isn't how you describe (there is no file menu)
[11:43] <Myrtti> popey: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/dec/04/jack-monroe-budget-christmas
[11:43] <popey> oh, did I typo
[11:43] <popey> ali1234: how much music is in your folder?
[11:44] <popey> is it just madly busy then?
[11:44] <ali1234> eh... quite a lot, but not as much as serious mp3 collectors
[11:44] <popey> only 400 in mine
[11:44] <ali1234> 53GB
[11:44] <MooDoo> 20gb in mine
[11:45]  * popey leaves it running
[11:45] <ali1234> the UI remains responsive, new stuff popping up all the time
[11:45] <popey> mine instantly becomes unresponsive when I add a folder
[11:45] <bigcalm> 159GB
[11:45] <ali1234> oh btw... i'm using xubuntu :)
[11:45] <ali1234> maybe it's fighting with zeitgeist?
[11:46] <popey> wonder if I can get more output by running it manually via python?
[11:46] <ali1234> what if you add an empty folder or one with just 1 mp3 in it?
[11:46] <ali1234> i get lots of debug output about bad files too
[11:46] <popey> same
[11:46] <popey> same issue with 1 mp3
[11:46] <popey> i get no debug out
[11:48] <diddledan> I've got 31.55GB
[11:48] <popey> i am only trying this app because it claims to be able to get missing album art
[11:48] <popey> if there's another ubuntu app (which isn't amarok) which can do it, I'll try that
[11:49]  * diplo manually did all his with mp3tag.de ( 160gb's worth )
[11:49] <ali1234> rhythmbox can do it
[11:49] <diplo> But simples to do it now as I get new albums I do it
[11:49] <ali1234> it doesn't put it into the mp3 files though
[11:49] <popey> it can?
[11:49] <popey> oh
[11:49] <ali1234> yeah, it's a plugin
[11:49] <diddledan> diplo: that's a lotta giggles
[11:49] <popey> does it save a jpg in the folder thoug
[11:49] <popey> not stuff it an unrelated folder?
[11:50] <ali1234> no, it saves them all in ~/.cache/rhythmbox/albumartcache.dat or something
[11:50] <ali1234> also the plugin is bugged and i had to disable it
[11:50] <ali1234> it used to work though
[11:50] <popey> bah
[11:51] <diplo> That's why I use mp3tag, it writes the image to the mp3 so no seperate album art anywhere
[11:52] <daftykins> then you're just duplicating the image n times :(
[11:52] <daftykins> i used to do that, but i prefer to just have 'cover.jpg' within the album folder
[11:52] <diplo> Yep, but it's miniscule in size change
[11:52] <daftykins> a good media player can read that
[11:53] <daftykins> plus it's against the rules of certain communities i believe
[11:53] <diplo> diddledan: I've been sorting mp3's for last 10-15 years, I only listen to 10gb of it probably just don't get rid of anything :)
[11:53] <brobostigon> free mobile spotify, yay
[11:53] <diplo> Communities daftykins ?
[11:54] <diddledan> spotify is amazeballs
[11:54] <daftykins> diplo: yep such as what.cd
[11:54] <Myrtti> diddledan: +1000000
[11:54] <ali1234> does free spotify still have the silly "you can only listen to each song three times ever" limit?
[11:54] <foobarry> brobostigon: about time
[11:54] <brobostigon> foobarry: i agree, yes.
[11:54] <daftykins> i have never used spotify
[11:55] <Myrtti> I still pay for it though, turns out the artists are paid more if people with premium subscription listen to their songs
[11:55] <daftykins> not sure it'd be for me either
[11:55] <diddledan> I pay for it too
[11:55] <foobarry> i've spent < 20 quid on albums this year
[11:55] <foobarry> so paying for potify is not economical
[11:56] <diplo> Same here foobarry
[11:56] <Myrtti> foobarry: I pay for the convenience, space saving and not needing to worry if my harddrive borks
[11:56] <foobarry> i think i backed up my musics to google music
[11:56] <diddledan> I pay for the discovery of new tracks based on my listening past
[11:56] <foobarry> i'm kinda fussy
[11:56] <daftykins> that part could be handy
[11:56] <diplo> Not sure what.cd is daftykins but all my images come from amazon ( auto grabs them with mp3tag )
[11:56] <Myrtti> also I don't really listen to radio so following artists and playlist publishers exposes me to new music
[11:56] <diddledan> spotify radio is awesome
[11:57] <foobarry> anyone noticed that CDs on amazon are expensive again nowadays
[11:57] <diplo> I find new stuff from friends and Sky Music channels :)
[11:57] <awilkins> I usually buy music on CD from play.com these days
[11:57] <daftykins> diplo: private music torrent site - perhaps unsavoury for me to discuss further! anywho they have quite specific rules on things
[11:57] <foobarry> play.com is not play.com anymore though
[11:57] <foobarry> it became a marketplace site :(
[11:58] <awilkins> Not used it in a while
[11:58] <daftykins> diplo: lol sky music channels are still playing the same things for the last 15 years though!
[11:58] <diddledan> play.com is rakouten, or so they keep insisting
[11:58] <daftykins> rakouten?
[11:58] <diddledan> daftykins: no idea
[11:58] <foobarry> special move in street fighter
[11:58] <awilkins> Dammit, you beat me to it
[11:59] <diplo> Scuzz isn't, I like rock /metal as well as other stuff
[11:59] <daftykins> not sure how a site can be that :D
[11:59] <diplo> But tbh, I play 80's stuff more than anything
[11:59] <awilkins> They should so advertise themselves with that because it would work better than the stupid adverts on the side of buses
[11:59] <daftykins> diplo: heh i was thinking of Kerrang which is the top offender for what i said
[11:59] <foobarry> i just discovered that zavvi is still going
[11:59] <diplo> Definitly daftykins :)
[12:00] <daftykins> i just had a local gas co. employee come over to quote me for a new boiler, he's guessing around the £1,900 mark :(
[12:00] <popey> diplo: mp3tag is windows?
[12:00] <foobarry> youtube just presented me with a pair of boobs barely covered with hair on their front page (not signed in)
[12:01] <diddledan> foobarry: awesome
[12:01] <foobarry> :-|
[12:01] <diplo> Yep, but works perfectly under wine popey
[12:01] <diplo> Or did about 6 months ago when I last did the lot of them
[12:01] <popey> how manual is it?
[12:01] <popey> you have to do each track?
[12:01] <diplo> So I have my music in Music/Artist/Album/mp3's
[12:01] <popey> ditto
[12:02] <diplo> I basically select an album with all mp3s and go to top and get album art
[12:02] <diplo> Click the one you want from results
[12:02] <diplo> Click save
[12:02] <diplo> I did 160gb over a 2 week period on and off
[12:03] <diplo> Renamed all files to the same format 01 - songname.mp3
[12:03] <diplo> I guess I'm a little OCD on it :)
[12:04] <diplo> I'll install mp3tag now to test if it still works
[12:04] <diddledan> I wonder what time wordpress 3.8 is going to hit today
[12:05] <ali1234> 3.8? i only just upgraded to 3.7 :/
[12:05] <daftykins> ^my thoughts exactly
[12:05] <diddledan> ali1234: it was a short dev cycle
[12:05] <popey> meh, too manual
[12:06] <diplo> heh
[12:06] <diplo> It was the best I could find that did what I wanted, all others sucked
[12:06] <daftykins> Nexus 4 in macro shocker: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pj000srr8nmph5/IMG_20131212_120144.jpg
[12:06] <diplo> I did find a CLI tag that did it all via musicbraninz and did a best guess
[12:06] <diplo> Worked 70% well
[12:06] <diplo> Can't remember the name off my head though
[12:14] <diplo> Help please :) - My mum has been asked to get a wireless mouse for my brother.. plays some games - FPS's etc.. what is the recommendation now
[12:14] <diplo> Last mouse I bought specifically for gaming was a MX510 :)
[12:14] <diplo> so out of harddware now
[12:14] <daftykins> take a look at something by Razer
[12:15] <dutchie> daftykins: http://beets.radbox.org/?
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> I've heard wireless mice + games = laggy
[12:15] <dutchie> er, diplo
[12:15] <daftykins> dutchie: perhaps not me that was after that?
[12:15] <daftykins> :)
[12:15] <dutchie> too many d people
[12:15] <daftykins> :D
[12:15] <diplo> Never had an issue so far with the one I have and that was a work one M-RAG97 Logitech thing
[12:16] <diddledan> o/
[12:16] <diplo> ta, looking
[12:16] <dutchie> re: mice: i'm very happy with my roccat kone xtd
[12:16] <daftykins> dratted d dudes doth detract from discussion daily
[12:16] <diplo> That could have been it dutchie !
[12:16] <dutchie> there are semi-official linux drivers too
[12:16] <diplo> Not required for linux, brother a windows boy through and through
[12:17] <diddledan> \o/ windows rockxs your sockxs
[12:17] <diddledan> I've been awake too long
[12:17] <diddledan> I've gone into randomness mode
[12:17] <daftykins> diddledan: you never leave it!
[12:18] <diplo> BBetter see what she wants to spend, I think it was more £30 :)
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: what's wrong with that mode?
[12:23] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: not much
[12:26] <SuperMatt> popey: I have some questions about raid in btrfs, though I have a feeling it might be best for me to test this in vms
[12:27] <SuperMatt> imagine I had one disk with all my data on
[12:27] <popey> ya
[12:27] <SuperMatt> would it be simple to come along with two equally sized disks and raid5 all of them without having to remove data from the first disk?
[12:27] <popey> with no RAID?
[12:27] <popey> you can't raid 5 in btrfs yet
[12:27] <popey> only RAID 0 and 1
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: to upgrade from btfs-with-no-raid to btrfs-with-raid5?
[12:28] <davmor2> diddledan: why would you use an operating system that throws rocks as your socks?  What did your socks do?
[12:28] <SuperMatt> ah, well popey has answered my question :P
[12:28] <popey> if the first disk was btrfs you can just add a second one and make it RAID 1
[12:28] <popey> and then run balance to spread the data around
[12:28] <popey> all online
[12:28] <SuperMatt> sure, raid 1 is just striped, right?
[12:28] <diddledan> davmor2: they're pretty pungent
[12:28] <popey> well, its RAID1-like
[12:28] <popey> its not RAID1
[12:28] <SuperMatt> sure sure
[12:28] <popey> basically every chunk is in two places
[12:28] <davmor2> diddledan: they wash then don't have windows throw rocks at them :D
[12:29] <popey> thats how I have my 12 disk btrfs volume, one big RAID1
[12:29] <diddledan> lol
[12:29] <SuperMatt> I see
[12:29] <SuperMatt> dang, I wish raid 5 worked
[12:29] <diddledan> raid6!
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: managed in a smart way by btrfs right?
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: so every file has *2* copies on the array, not 12
[12:30] <SuperMatt> nm, diddledan 5 or 6, doesn't matter with 3 drives ;)
[12:30] <diddledan> >.<
[12:31] <SuperMatt> tbh, I need to look at what disks I have and see what the best option is for me
[12:31] <SuperMatt> that'll be a job for this weekend
[12:31] <popey> yes MartijnVdS
[12:31] <popey> I haven't run balance for ages, might kick one off
[12:32] <diddledan> goo on, popey, squeeze one out
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[12:33] <SuperMatt> https://cloud.supermatt.net/public.php?service=files&t=1ce33ea8f0afd2d7f7621b0fb8b5dceb
[12:33] <diddledan> if nothing else it'll make a fancy light show
[12:33] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561123/
[12:33] <popey> away she goes
[12:33] <SuperMatt> that's how my disks look now, I just wanna whip 3 of them out and put them in a nice way in to my n54l
[12:33] <SuperMatt> could do four of them
[12:33] <diddledan> I used to enjoy taking a drive out of a hotswap array and reinsert to watch the lightshow as it rebuilds
[12:34] <SuperMatt> I *really* don't enjoy anything that involves messing around with my data D:
[12:34] <diddledan> popey: how big is your array in raw terms and then how much formatted+raid?
[12:35] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561140/ \o/
[12:35] <popey> it's 12x2TB
[12:35] <diddledan> wow
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you add those 4 in the middle later?
[12:35] <diddledan> that's quite an expensive rig then
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> with the lower usage?
[12:35] <popey> yes
[12:35] <popey> hence me now balancing
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> still no auto-balance then
[12:36] <popey> i think it does
[12:36] <popey> but you only see the effect after some time
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> and only on write, probably
[12:36] <diddledan> can I ask what you've got it all wired into? as in the external caddy and the drive machine?
[12:36] <popey> it doesn't manually move stuff about, but prioritises the emptier disks
[12:36] <popey> yeah
[12:36] <diddledan> I seem to recall you've got it on a microserver?
[12:36] <popey> yes
[12:36] <daftykins> could there be an fstab option to tell it to do things?
[12:36] <popey> microserver and 8-way array external
[12:37] <diddledan> nice
[12:37] <popey> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Do_I_need_to_run_a_balance_regularly.3F
[12:38] <popey> haha, syslog getting spammed http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561152/
[12:38] <diddledan> eep
[12:38] <diddledan> it better be buffered
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, dmesg -T :)
[12:39] <diddledan> otherwise it'll nuke your rebalance with syslog writes overtaking it
[12:39] <popey> yeah, i use dmesg -T but that's a multitail of syslog
[12:39] <popey> diddledan: not a problem
[12:39] <popey> it can balance a disk which is in use
[12:39] <popey> and my / is on another disk anyway ☻
[12:40] <popey>  / is on an SSD
[12:40] <diddledan> fairy nuff
[12:41] <diddledan> I think I need to go in search of feeding time
[12:41] <popey> [Thu Dec 12 12:41:22 2013] Kernel BUG at ffffffffa015b0d2 [verbose debug info unavailable]
[12:41] <popey> oof
[12:41] <diddledan> eep
[12:42] <diddledan> that not nice
[12:42] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561172/
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> eep
[12:42] <diddledan> I'm scared for your data now
[12:43] <diddledan> invalid opcode? that's an odd one
[12:44] <diddledan> tht means it tried to execute data?
[12:44] <popey> I'm sure it'll be fine ☻
[12:44] <directhex> i don't think btrfs is remotely production-ready yet
[12:44] <diddledan> tell that to oracle
[12:45] <directhex> hey oracle: you suck
[12:45] <popey> tell that to Jolla
[12:45] <directhex> hey jolla: you suck
[12:45] <popey> ☻
[12:45] <diddledan> isn't btrfs an oracle baby?
[12:45] <directhex> here's the thing about Enterprise vendors and filesystems
[12:45] <popey> Chris left Oracle
[12:45] <diddledan> aah
[12:45] <xnox> diddledan: FusionIO
[12:45] <popey> Works for FusionIO
[12:45] <directhex> we used to have a 1 rack multi-terabyte array running ReiserFS
[12:45] <directhex> as the only supported FS
[12:46] <diddledan> directhex: murder trial put an end to that one
[12:46] <ali1234> popey: they inherited it from meego
[12:46] <diddledan> for a long time reiser was THE filesystem everyone else aspired to be
[12:47] <diddledan> then the police came and everyone wanted to be NOT reiser
[12:47] <awilkins> Used to run the root of my MythTV box on reiserfs
[12:47] <awilkins> The media storage has always been xfs though
[12:47] <diddledan> awilkins: xfs is a pretty solid system
[12:48] <popey> ali1234: true
[12:48] <diddledan> online fsck ftw
[12:48] <ali1234> not that that makes it okay... but it's even more funny that intel wanted to ship it years ago
[12:49] <popey> I still chuckle at Robert Carr who came along to his first UDS with his Mum (as he was 15) and stood up to give a presentation about compiz, but his (reiser4) home partition fragged between standing up and getting on stage.
[12:49] <brobostigon> tim martin, owner of jd wheatherspoon was just on daily politics.
[12:49] <popey> lots of OOOOOHHHHH! from the audience
[12:49] <popey> as he plugged laptop into projector and all everyone saw was reiserfs errors
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> ricerfs
[12:49] <popey> funroll loops
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> exactly ;)
[12:50] <directhex> they sell those at tesco now, i the american imports aisle
[12:50] <directhex> wait, that's froot loops
[12:50] <diddledan> don't remind me that I admin gentoo servers, please!
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> popey: was that Seville then?
[12:50] <popey> ya
[12:50] <popey> you were there ☻
[12:50] <popey> the place with the smelly drains
[12:50] <awilkins> hah, my MythTV box used to be Gentoo
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> popey: and the ice cold basement & 35° weather
[12:51] <popey> Install Gentoo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjGSMUep6_4
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> popey: and good food!
[12:51] <awilkins> Gentoo used to be the easiest way to get the bleeding-edge kernel modules that you needed to run my TV tuner hardware
[12:51] <awilkins> And you learn a lot
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I used slackware for that. In 1996-7
[12:52] <awilkins> You also spend a LOT of time watching compiler scrollback
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> I still do that with openwrt
[12:52] <awilkins> I'm still on White Russian
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> I'm on Barrier Breaker now
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> i.e. trunk
[12:53] <awilkins> My hardware has a quirk and I don't want to risk annoying it
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: what kind of device do you have?
[12:54] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, It's an old Buffalo G54
[12:54] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Broadcom internally I think
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: similar to the Linksys 54G devices probably?
[12:55] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, It's this one : http://wiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/openwrtdocs/hardware/buffalo/wbr_g54
[12:57] <awilkins> The fiddly stuff noted at the top of the page puts me off reflashing it
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> awilkins:                 # Buffalo WBR-B11 and Buffalo WBR-G54
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: its switch config defaults are listed in the code still
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> (in trunk)
[12:57] <daftykins> i've got dd or open on my WBR-G54L :D
[12:57] <daftykins> i think it died, then flashing it fixed it!
[12:58] <awilkins> If I flash it then it dies I'm stuck with the Virgin "Super Hub"
[12:58]  * MartijnVdS has a TP-Link WDR4300
[12:58] <awilkins> After I stopped running irssi sessions on it, it was a lot more reliable
[12:59] <awilkins> Very happy with it's ability to WOL my boxes at home
[12:59] <awilkins> And act as an SSH VPN box
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> I get fibre to the home -> media converter -> gigabit ethernet (limited to 100mbit at the ISP's end)
[13:00] <awilkins> Ah, Dutch internet
[13:00] <foobarry> lol. on facebook "HP printer special edition". one comment "the photo is of a lexmark printer". reply: "the box says HP"
[13:00] <daftykins> anyone had any experience with the Canon 'CAPT' printer driver?
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: then the weird starts: I need to set up a PPPoE session on VLAN 6
[13:08] <dwatkins> ali1234: thanks for the link, I worked around the issue with Unutiy in 2D mode, where the permissions dialog can be clicked [on this laptop]
[13:09] <ali1234> u nutty?
[13:09] <daftykins> ubnuttu
[13:11] <dwatkins> haha, Unity of course
[13:11] <dwatkins> nautilus then crashed, but I can't reproduce that issue
[13:12] <dwatkins> perhaps nautilus doesn't like me logging out when booted from a USB stick
[13:12] <dwatkins> (and back in again)
[13:41] <knightwise> any Whoovians in today ?
[13:42] <diddledan> nanooo nanooo
[13:49] <foobarry> watched donnie darko again last week. great film. couldn't remember anything about it as had been over 10 yrs
[13:50] <MooDoo> knightwise: I love who
[13:51] <dwatkins> me two
[13:51] <diddledan> I thrice
[13:52] <diddledan> gotta love his companion mindy
[13:52] <dwatkins> roll on xmas
[13:53] <popey> hah
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: Who! Can't wait for the christmas episode :)_
[13:54] <diddledan> the 50th anniversary blew my mind
[13:54] <foobarry> knightwise: got alpine working with office 365?
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it was great, wasn't it?
[13:56] <daftykins> foobarry: i saw that for the first time recently, i figured there was something familiar about the guy - i'd already seen 'Source Code' which he's also in :)
[13:59] <knightwise> foobarry: nope, not yet
[13:59] <knightwise> only Gmail
[14:15] <Laney> czajkowski: which FOSDEM hotel are you staying at?
[14:15]  * Laney is now considering going
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> Laney: just for czajkowski ?
[14:17] <Laney> she was telling me about it a while ago
[14:17] <Laney> you could give me a suggestion if you have one
[14:18] <MooDoo> woohoo amiga 500 emulator in the browser :) http://pnacl-amiga-emulator.appspot.com/
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> Laney: suggestion for what?
[14:18] <Laney> a decent hotel for fosdem
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea. I usually take the train there for only one day
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> if I go
[14:18] <Laney> k
[14:27] <MooDoo> ooo fosdem
[14:46] <MooDoo> ,
[14:46] <MartijnVdS>  !
[14:48] <MooDoo> lol typo, didn't think any one would notice lol
[14:52] <bigcalm> Careful, you'll put us into a comma coma
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> comma chameleon?
[14:55] <MooDoo> http://elite.frontier.co.uk/ OMG
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> £200 to get into the alpha
[14:57] <MooDoo> well not interested in that, will just wait for the game
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> £50 for beta access -- once it's beta
[14:57] <MooDoo> but still OMG
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> and £35 for the final game
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: those videos.. whoa
[14:59] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: awesome big elite fanboy here
[14:59] <foobarry> not playing on my pc :(
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I've only played Frontier, but I was *glued* to my PC for weeks when I did
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> loved that game
[14:59] <MooDoo> :)
[14:59] <diplo> foobarry: http://youtu.be/1QC3aHzVnlQ
[14:59] <foobarry> wow, is this game footage or cut scene
[14:59] <diplo> Is the link in the page
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8B4KptyVI
[15:00] <foobarry> looks a bit "busy"
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: of course they're only showing the "cool" parts in the video
[15:01] <MooDoo> well if the graphics are like that through the whole game, it'll be immense
[15:02] <foobarry> no linux version though
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: if it's like Elite or Frontier, most will be procedurally generated, with some basic hand-made star systems
[15:03] <diplo> Looks good to me, I may even be interested :)
[15:03] <diddledan> what did I miss?
[15:03] <MooDoo> diddledan: new version of elite
[15:03] <diddledan> aha
[15:04] <diddledan> is it like kerbel space program? :-p
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's more like the Death Star battle scene in Star Wars
[15:04] <diddledan> hehe
[15:04] <diddledan> complete with flying into the spinny hole
[15:05] <diddledan> (at least the original was)
[15:05] <awilkins> That's in-engine
[15:05] <awilkins> Very very shiny
[15:06] <awilkins> The main thing that concerns me about the new Elite is the hitscan weapons
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: what like the laser in the old ones?
[15:07] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, yup
[15:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Useful feature - New offline mode in Google Drive spreadsheet app: http://googledrive.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/newsheets.html?m=1
[15:08] <awilkins> Although the flight mechanics look to have been made less realistic which is good
[15:08] <awilkins> The combination of Newtonian flight and long-ranged hitscan laser weapons made Elite 2 and 3 no fun at all
[15:09] <foobarry> ok, jumbo frames on vmware. vm has mtu9000, switch vlan has jumbo enabled, vmware vswitch jumbo enabled...what else i need?
[15:09] <awilkins> You just circled each other like two tennis balls on a rubber bungee cord until one of you connected with your laser and snuffed the other one out into a cloud of ash
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: host network adapter needs mtu9000 probably
[15:10] <foobarry> hmm i thought vsphere 5.5 did that for me..i'll check
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: ash and a container of slaves^Wanimal meat
[15:10] <awilkins> The alternate battle outcome was that you collided with something that had a big shield and went "Whuf."
[15:11] <foobarry> vmnic5  0000:0c:00.01 elxnet      Up   10000Mbps Full  9000   Emulex Corporation IBM OCm11102-F2-X Emulex OneConnect 2-port PCIe 10GbE Converged Network Adapter
[15:15] <foobarry> strangely the emulex mgmt interface says the opposite
[15:15] <shauno> accidentally got the IR cam instead of the regular cam for the pi.  Downsides, I'm now purple.  Upsides, I now know where all the optical sensors on my roomba are :)
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: does it also work on remote controls?
[15:18] <awilkins> IR cam is just a standard cam with a different filter no?
[15:19] <awilkins> Are the framerates on normal CCD sensors good enough to decode remotes?
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I don't know actually
[15:24] <shauno> MartijnVdS: yeah.  stroboscopic flashlights :)
[15:24] <AlanBell> awilkins: it doesn't have a filter at all
[15:24] <AlanBell> so it does night vision and other interesting things
[15:25] <shauno> right, it's the regular camera with the IR cutout removed.  I would say "just", but it seems removing the IR cutout from the regular model is a challenging, destructive process
[15:25] <AlanBell> the wii bar for the wiimotes is also IR, a wiimote is basically a 1024x1024 IR camera
[15:26]  * awilkins is the guy who worked that out first on Slashdot
[15:26] <awilkins> "Beacon bar"
[15:26] <awilkins> (some other wag then said "Bacon bar... mmmmmm"
[15:27] <SuperMatt> could people please do me a favour and let me know if port 80 is open on <IP_ADDRESS>?
[15:27] <awilkins> Nope
[15:27] <SuperMatt> any more please?
[15:27] <SuperMatt> I'd like as many results as possible
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
[15:28] <AlanBell> doesn't work for me SuperMatt
[15:32] <diplo> Refused here as well
[15:36] <popey> PORT    STATE  SERVICE
[15:36] <popey> 80/tcp  open   http
[15:36] <popey> 113/tcp closed ident
[15:36] <popey> 443/tcp open   https
[15:37] <awilkins> Works now
[15:37] <awilkins> Getting a big monochrome ENGINE
[15:37] <SuperMatt> goodo
[15:37] <SuperMatt> thanks
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I get a connection now as well
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> nginx responds
[15:39] <SuperMatt> huzzah
[15:39] <SuperMatt> it should be going nginx -> varnish cache -> apache
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> ("nginx? I thought I'd installed lighttpd!")
[15:40] <SuperMatt> I know how to use nginx, so...
[15:40] <diddledan> varnish behind nginx?!
[15:40] <SuperMatt> sure
[15:40] <diddledan> is that the right way about?
[15:40] <SuperMatt> varnish doesn't do https
[15:40] <diddledan> aah
[15:40] <SuperMatt> so you need to terminate the ssl somehow
[15:41] <diddledan> so nginx is just an ssl arbitrator then
[15:41] <SuperMatt> yup
[15:41] <diddledan> in this context
[15:41] <SuperMatt> I think I'm going to suggest that actually all jpgs, etc go through the nginx/varnish level of stuff
[15:42] <diddledan> that makes sense - apache is too heavy to be bothering with static assets that can be served much faster by the cache or intermediary layer
[15:42] <SuperMatt> indeed
[15:42] <SuperMatt> so for each site, If I have www. and media., everything should be cool
[15:42] <diddledan> nginx is very speedy at static iirc
[15:42] <diddledan> and varnish is good at caching
[15:43] <diddledan> so I'd use varnish to cache the application pages and nginx to run the static and ssl
[15:44] <dwatkins> what about stunnel?
[15:45] <SuperMatt> diddledan: that idea of using varnish for the static is because it doesn't have to read from disk
[15:45] <SuperMatt> plus, you really don't want to cache any of your php/python/ruby/whatever
[15:46] <dwatkins> if you're using ssl, surely you shouldn't cache anything
[15:46] <czajkowski> Laney: http://www.scandichotels.fi/Hotels/Belgia/Brysseli/Scandic-Grand-Place/
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> depends.. most static images and js should be safely cacheable
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: be sure to use encrypted storage though
[15:47] <dwatkins> I guess I'm thinking of proxy servers, they shouldn't cache ssl, clearly
[15:47] <dwatkins> ssl encrypted traffic
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I think this is a reverse proxy on the server end though
[15:48] <SuperMatt> if your serving jpgs over ssl, you might as well have them cached
[15:48] <diddledan> dwatkins, if the cache control headers are set to allow caching then there's no reason not to do so
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> client-side HTTP proxies usually use CONNECT (sort of like tcp passthrough) for SSL -- they can't see inside the SSL stream
[15:49] <diddledan> it's up to the app developer to decide what to allow to be cached and what not
[15:50] <dwatkins> ah yes, the "CONNECT method" which confuses people from being called CONNECT when you're trying to connect.
[15:50] <diddledan> the only issue comes with a proxy between "application" and "user" that wants to cache because they won't have the ssl certificate to prove authenticity of the data
[15:50] <dwatkins> yeah, that's fun
[15:51] <diddledan> that is until you discover that some taiwanese ssl authority has given out carte-blance certificates (which did happen recently)
[15:51] <SuperMatt> diddledan: unless you're an network admin and can install a new cert on everyone's machines
[15:52] <SuperMatt> thus being able to sniff facebook passwords over ssl \o/
[15:52] <dwatkins> naughty
[15:52] <SuperMatt> I know right ;)
[15:53] <SuperMatt> and it's exactly what governments can do \o/
[15:53] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: do you also have your coffee machine connected to the UPS?
[15:53] <dwatkins> ...or just the aircon
[15:53] <SuperMatt> I don't drink coffee
[15:53] <SuperMatt> or tea
[15:53] <SuperMatt> or anything hot really
[15:54] <dwatkins> the guy at the desk next to me is building a tie fighter in "hard mode", without opening the bag (of Lego)
[15:54] <dwatkins> we have a team advent calendar
[15:55] <SuperMatt> sorry, what?
[15:55] <SuperMatt> how is he building it?
[15:55] <dwatkins> in the bag, without breaking it open
[15:55] <SuperMatt> but surely it comes in multiple bags
[15:55] <dwatkins> nah, these are tiny models
[15:55] <SuperMatt> that's how I remember my lego working
[15:55] <dwatkins> about 10 pieces each
[15:55] <SuperMatt> oh, lego calendar?
[15:56] <dwatkins> yeah
[15:56] <SuperMatt> I might give that a go tomorrow then :D
[15:57] <dwatkins> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yZIFo8MpHT4/Uh-Ri0dGxGI/AAAAAAAAj_g/eK9ybolO5TU/s1600/LEGO+Star+Wars+2013+Advent+Calendar+02.jpg
[15:57] <diddledan> meh, I haven't got a calendar this year
[15:59] <diplo> Not had a calendar since I was probably 12?
[15:59] <SuperMatt> as an adult, you must remember you can buy your own :P
[16:00] <diplo> I buy them for my kids..
[16:00] <dwatkins> We get enough chocolate at work, so I bought the department a Lego one.
[16:00]  * diplo is going to spend the last hour of work sorting Xmas cards I think, to tired!
[16:47]  * dwatkins WD40s the postroom door, calls the day a success and heads home
[17:03] <Laney> czajkowski: ye beaut
[17:04] <czajkowski> Laney: awwww :p
[17:04] <Laney> not sure why you linked me to a finnish page though
[17:12] <Laney> czajkowski: seems kind of far away?
[17:12] <Laney> or are all of the ok hotels in the city centre?
[17:13] <czajkowski> Laney: yup all city center
[17:13] <czajkowski> it's about a 7 min walk from the main bar we go to
[17:13] <czajkowski> and a 5 min walk from nearest bus stop
[17:13] <czajkowski> so it's very good
[19:54] <Laney> steakkkkkkkkk
[20:05] <popey> nom
[20:06] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zbjke2rqpjazzzl/IMG_20131212_200436.jpg
[20:06] <daftykins> i want to get curry but ^
[20:07] <popey> hah
[20:07] <popey> we argue over who is going to get the wine bottle from the kitchen when we have one of the cats like that
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: don't you have curry delivery services in your area? ;)
[20:09] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: haha, my take-away is about 30 seconds from my door :)
[20:09] <daftykins> popey: :D
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> \o/ 13 hours before landing
[20:10] <daftykins> which landing is this? :)
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: My landing at Gatwick :)
[20:11] <daftykins> 13hrs O_O where have you been sir?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Take-off is in 12
[20:11] <daftykins> haha
[20:11] <daftykins> i wondered if you were doing that
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: going to this: http://www.nerinapallot.com/shop2/?productDetails.cfm?Basket=1@,&ProductID=1802
[20:12] <daftykins> nice :D
[20:13] <daftykins> my parents are going to see Black Sabbath this weekend, i'm quite jealous
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> they still exist?!
[20:13] <daftykins> it's why i have this cat here as a guest right now :D
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> (BS, not your parents)
[20:13] <daftykins> XD
[20:13] <daftykins> either/or
[20:13] <daftykins> yeah they only popped out another album the other day
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmPVS_iGK9U & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD6F9vNEmRs
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> I've been to Nerina's concerts before :)
[20:15] <daftykins> popey: just got offered android 4.4.2 on my Nexus 4
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I installed that manually yesterday. Can't find any obvious differences with 4.4.1
[20:16] <popey> yeah, just got it on my n7
[20:16] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah i never saw .1
[20:17] <popey> and the other n7 too
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: you should click those video links :P
[20:17] <popey> slow download is slow
[20:17] <daftykins> since 4.4 i've noticed most apps that should stop the phone sleeping, fail to
[20:17] <popey> i use wakey
[20:17] <popey> to force it to stay on
[20:17] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i want to, but i feel my laptop's tinny speakers won't do it justice - also the power button *alone* on my HTPC's remote doesn't work =|
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it was recorded using a camera's internal mic.
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: tinny speakers won't make it worse ;)
[20:18] <daftykins> oh they're live? :)
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> yeah, they're videos I made at previous concerts :)
[20:19] <daftykins> N4 seems as bad as iPads for slowly updating @_@
[20:19] <daftykins> i like the fingerless gloves XD
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it was the middle of May, in Cornwall. It gets cold near the ocean!
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> it was *beautiful* out there though, at Minack Theatre (and the rest of Porthcurno)
[20:21] <daftykins> says you to an islander ;)
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> re: N4 - http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1r1n5z/psa_do_not_clear_data_for_google_service_framework/cdiymrp
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: she's an islander too! (Jersey)
[20:22] <daftykins> :O
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVxeuwlvf8w
[21:17] <foobarry> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/dec/12/pupils-father-christmas-ruined-by-vicar-santa-claus-origins
[21:18] <foobarry> :-|
[21:18] <foobarry> parents of nine-year olds were complaining about the vicar educating the kids
[21:33] <daftykins> :O
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[21:43] <foobarry> i have a feeling my son will tell everyone at nursery
[21:44] <foobarry> everytime santa gets mentioned my boy says HE'S JUST PRETEND
[21:44] <foobarry> just to remind me
[21:46] <daftykins> lmao
[21:46] <daftykins> i'm not sure how i'd deal with that issue if i had kids
[21:46] <daftykins> generational deceit D:
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> I'm also not sure..
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> well "santa" nobody believes in here
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> but "Sinterklaas", whose presents come on Dec 5th.. every kid
[21:58] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: he turns up early!
[22:02] <shauno> I think ours comes late .. most the continent seems to have a consensus
[22:02] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: santa claus is even named after our Sinterklaas
[22:04] <daftykins> shauno: ah :)
[22:06] <shauno> I also found out in parts of europe, santa doesn't do the naughty/nice thing.  he arrives with a furry devil-type thing.  santa does the nice kids, and the furry hands out potatos to the naughty kids
[22:07] <daftykins> shauno: wouldn't that be like any other year in Ireland? ;)
[22:07] <popey> my daughter figured it out a year or more back, and she's good at keeping secrets, so Sam still believes
[22:07] <daftykins> potatoes all 'round!
[22:07] <shauno> apparently there's no potatoes and it's my fault.
[22:07] <daftykins> no potatoes!?


[00:00] <cryptodan_laptop> hello
[00:01] <ron__> Ok, let's get started. There is a link to the Ubuntu Global BugJam Wiki that gives a good overview of the event
[00:02] <ron__> You need to have a launchpad account to record your results.
[00:02] <cryptodan_laptop> So this is just a beta test of Ubuntu 15.10
[00:03] <ron__> The BugJam starts this Friday, Aug 7 and runs to Sun, Aug 10
[00:03] <ron__> Yes it is a beta test to help debug it
[00:04] <cryptodan_laptop> What kernel will be default on 15.10?
[00:04] <ron__> I believe it will be 4.x
[00:05] <ron__> 4.1 Kernel
[00:06] <cryptodan_laptop> There are going to be a lot of people unhappy with nvidia and kernel 4.1.x and 4.x or later 4.0 works fine with nvidia
[00:06] <ron__> We suggest that you use Virtualbox to load the image.
[00:07] <cryptodan_laptop> I do have vmware workstation
[00:08] <ron__> It may not be 4.1.x when it is released but this is one of the reasons they do the bugjam and testing
[00:08] <ron__> vmware workstation is fine.
[00:09] <ron__> The areas that we have focused on is installing and testing packages
[00:09] <cryptodan_laptop> So ill download it tonight and load it up Friday
[00:10] <ron__> Wait until we get closer to Friday to get the latest daily build.
[00:11] <ron__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Testing
[00:12] <ron__> We are doing image testing which is the installation process and Application testing
[00:13] <ron__> There are guides that you complete online as you proceed through the tests and record bugs/issues
[00:13] <cryptodan_laptop> Awesome glad I will possibly contributing to the open source community
[00:14] <ron__> You are contributing to making Ubuntu software better.
[00:15] <ron__> The software can be buggy at this point so everything may not run smoothly but that is the point of the exercise.
[00:16] <cryptodan_laptop> Usually I do not use or test beta software
[00:16] <ron__> We are working remotely this time but we met as a group for the 15.04 bugjam and had alot of fun
[00:17] <ron__> Think of helping to make it better.
[00:18] <ron__> That's also the reason we don't install it on our hardware and use virtual devices for these tests
[00:18] <cryptodan_laptop> One thing that turned me off to ubuntu was the slow unity Ubuntu 9 to 12 were much better for my needs
[00:20] <ron__> Unity has improved dramatically over the past 4 Ubuntu versions. Unity 8 may be a part of 15.10
[00:21] <cryptodan_laptop> Would be worth giving it a shot again
[00:21] <ron__> Here is an example of testing the download iso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough
[00:23] <cryptodan_laptop> okay I have done something like that for the intelligence community
[00:24] <ron__> Great, it should be similar experience. But remember the software can be buggy at this stage.
[00:25] <ron__> Here is the example of the application testing, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cadence/Walkthrough
[00:26] <cryptodan_laptop> Awesome
[00:27] <ron__> I will be putting our BugJam on the Ubuntu Wiki on Tuesday and ask that you sign in indicating that you will be participating.
[00:27] <ron__> with our team, Ubuntu-Maryland
[00:27] <cryptodan_laptop> Okay
[00:28] <ron__> An email will also sent tomorrow with some of the information and links that we discussed tonight
[00:29] <cryptodan_laptop> I will keep an eye out for it
[00:29] <ron__> Great, do you have any other questions
[00:30] <cryptodan_laptop> Nope
[00:30] <ron__> Thanks for joining me, good night
[00:34] <cryptodan_laptop> You too


[00:11] <poolie> hi all
[00:24] <jelmer> g'morning poolie!
[00:24] <jelmer> how were your holidays?
[00:40] <poolie> hi
[00:40] <poolie> pretty nice
[00:46] <poolie> wgz, hi?
[00:51] <wgz> hey poolie
[00:52] <poolie> hi
[00:52] <poolie> happy new year
[00:52] <poolie> i was just going to reply to terry from leo-editor
[00:52] <wgz> yeah, that was also on my todo for tomorrow
[00:52] <poolie> if he has a working branch i think he can just call that 'trunk
[00:53] <wgz> however he created the previous one still results in it being broken, apparently
[00:53] <wgz> I need somone who understands launchpad stacking to walk me through the relationship between the branches
[01:55] <AfC> Is there an environment variable (or?) that indicates to bzr which SSH key to use when connecting to a remote server?
[01:55] <poolie> afc, not in bzr, but you can configure that in .ssh/config
[01:56] <AfC> poolie: no, it's per command [ie bzr] not per target server that I need to change it
[01:56] <poolie> if you want to use a different one for bzr vs other access, create a different virtual host, with the HostName pointing to the real name
[01:56] <AfC> hm
[01:56] <poolie> hm
[01:56] <AfC> let me look, might work
[01:56] <poolie> i think you can set the ssh client command name and you could point to a script that adds that parameter
[01:56] <AfC> oh,
[01:56]  * AfC dummy
[01:56] <AfC> I changed the name of they key file
[01:56] <AfC> already had an entry in .ssh/config
[01:57] <AfC> bah
[01:57] <AfC> humbug
[01:57] <AfC> sorry for noise.
[01:57] <AfC> poolie: thanks for help
[01:58] <AfC> [that was hard to debug!]
[07:51] <jelmer> moin
[07:57] <poolie> hi jelmer
[07:57] <poolie> welcome back
[08:00] <vila> hi all,
[08:00] <vila> happy new year poolie
[08:01] <poolie> hi there, thanks vila, hi mgz
[08:01] <mgz> morning all!
[08:02] <poolie> hey
[08:14] <jam> hi all, welcome back from the holidays
[09:59] <wgz> ....it's a random place in the UK
[09:59] <wgz> not even where my ISP is based
[09:59] <wgz> okay, enough battling with plusness
[09:59] <jelmer> it's probably just the closest thing to the cneter of the UK?
[09:59] <jelmer> I just got disconnected too
[10:00] <wgz> I'd expect more midlandsy for that, is suspiciously close to scotland
[10:27] <mgz> ha, again I'd plugged this laptop in without actually switching on the power
[11:30] <mgz> vila: so windows babune is still bust, I think this is still my fault and I've made a circular import despite trying not to
[11:31] <vila> dang it, almost forgot
[11:31] <vila> mgz: there are at least 2 issues
[11:31] <mgz> can you give me the traceback from the win32utils import?
[11:31] <mgz> if I can get away without completely restructuing the platform code to make it more sane, that would probably be best
[11:32] <vila> that one is trivial, just removing the line 2087 in osutils
[11:32] <vila> http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/view/debug/job/debug-windows/lastFailedBuild/
[11:32] <vila> http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/view/debug/job/debug-windows/lastFailedBuild/testReport/junit/bzrlib.tests.per_intertree.test_compare/TestCompare/test_abc_content_to_empty_InterDirStateTree_C__/ is where I get lost
[11:33] <mgz> okay, looking, thanks
[11:33] <mgz> ack.
[11:34] <vila> mgz: so you can start from lp:~vila/bzr/for-babune/
[11:34] <vila> if you want
[11:34] <mgz> probably also just an import ordering issue from me
[11:34] <mgz> otherwise, I'll blame jelmer's xml removing branch
[11:34] <mgz> will track it down.
[11:34] <vila> more likely ;)
[11:35] <vila> also, absolute import fallback came to mind
[11:36] <mgz> er... what were these test__btree_serializer ones about...
[11:36] <mgz> I thought I'd formed an opinion, but now can't remember it
[11:37] <vila> hmpf, yeah, not very readable output, but I suspect the same underlying issue so didn't ever bother
[11:43] <mgz> okay, your for-babune change is good, I'm going to send that to pqm
[11:48] <vila> jelmer: I'm not sure I understand your desire for unescape_for_display, care to clarify ?
[11:49] <mgz> can't a man have his desires?
[11:49] <vila> hehe
[11:49] <vila> sure, but understanding them help to address them ;)
[12:07] <jelmer> vila: Mostly, I just like to not have a lot of different ways of converting URLs to user touchable things and vice versa
[12:08] <mgz> URL.__unicode__
[12:08] <jelmer> mgz: we do want to allow paths in locations.conf though
[12:08] <jelmer> in particular, I worry about things like readonly+file:///
[12:08] <vila> yeah and windows paths too (or at least one bug asks for that)
[12:08] <jelmer> and escaping characters in URLs
[12:09] <vila> right,
[12:09] <jelmer> that's why I'm a bit skeptical - I'd rather just use normalized URLs internally and have user input converted to normalized URLs using something like location_to_url
[12:10] <mgz> passing strings around of various different types does lead to breakage
[12:10] <vila> so there are already several bugs filed for that and I agree with the goal and I'm not even sure I like allowing remote urls in config files given that  server settings that can be overridden are... unclear
[12:11] <mgz> I don't think that means we need to use URLs for everything, but certainly we need to know what kind of path is being operated on when displaying it in an error message etc
[12:11] <mgz> rather than looking at it and guessing
[12:11] <jelmer> mgz: we do seem to need some guessing here, so I'd rather have it in one spot (location_to_url) than in multiple places
[12:11] <vila> so when I say out-of-scope, I don't mean I don't care, it's just that this proposal is not about this topic
[12:12] <vila> readonly+file is probably already a bug with locations.conf :-/
[12:12] <jelmer> vila: I disagree, it adds more code that does this - and I think doing it properly is as much or perhaps less work than the current MP
[12:13] <mgz> well, we can guess (or rather have a clear process) when the url enters bzrlib from the user (command line, config file, etc)
[12:14] <mgz> s/url/path, url, or filename/
[12:14] <jelmer> mgz: ah, yeah - I think we mean the same thing
[12:14] <mgz> but that's... an ideally, not what currently happens in many cases
[12:14] <mgz> yup, violent agreement
[12:14] <vila> jelmer: well, I tried changing it while migrating locations.conf to config stacks and... encountered some ugly cases (sorry I can't remember the details right now) but it wasn't that easy
[12:16] <mgz> hm, too many branches named "fix...."
[12:16] <vila> looking at the config bugs: bug #85479 #359320 #437009
[12:17] <vila> looking at the config bugs: bug #85479 bug #359320 bug #437009
[12:18] <mgz> nice set vila.
[12:18] <mgz> incremental cleanups are fine, I've not looked at your branch yet, will shortly
[12:18] <vila> yeah, right, as said above, it's not as if I don't care about the issue
[12:19] <vila> jelmer: I agree that I use the same pattern as locations.conf but I did on purpose so any fix in one should go into the other and hopefully even more code can be shared but I wanted a simple proposal
[12:20] <mgz> ow, builddeb makes a bt.test_selftest test fail
[12:21] <mgz> it's.... a relative import issue! :D
[12:22] <mgz> plugins/builddeb/util.py", line 32, in <module> from distro_info import DebianDistroInfo, UbuntuDistroInfo
[12:22] <mgz> already fixed?
[12:22] <jelmer> mgz: I don't think that's a relative import issue
[12:22] <jelmer> mgz: distro_info is a top-level package
[12:23] <mgz> ah, I just don't have it then.
[12:24] <vila> mgz: and yeah, urls enter bzrlib in different ways, config files are utf8 but provides unicode, btw https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/907279-override-from-env/+merge/86737 has landed but I'll still welcome your comments about 'env_encoding'
[12:25] <mgz> what's the lp: name for it?
[12:25] <mgz> vila: will do, can probably simplify the encoding side a little now with some of the other changes (rather than previous tack of having lots of different possible encodings for different things)
[12:29] <vila> mgz: yeah. your functions have the right stuff but the API doesn't quite fit what config is expecting, there is probably an easy middle ground though
[12:29] <vila> hmm
[12:29] <vila> more network issues on a different machine now :-/
[12:33] <jelmer> :(
[12:35] <mgz> okay, that's made a bit of a dent in the review queue
[12:35] <jelmer> mgz: thanks
[12:39] <vila> transient DNS failure ? Do such things really still happen ? :-}
[12:40] <vila> jelmer: gha, look at smart/server.py line 360 :-(
[12:41] <vila> jelmer: on the bright side, grep returns ~50 hits for local_path_from_url so there is still hope
[12:43] <vila> jelmer: anyway, did I convince you I care about this stuff ? I already added a test with a location starting with file:/// (look at the last rev I pushed before my last comment), would you be fine with one more test showing that file:///foo is handled as /foo for section ids ?
[12:45] <vila> jelmer: and also (which may give you some more context), I'm whacking moles fixing bug #832042 already so chasing more moles today... is a bit too much ;)
[12:51] <mgz> okay, my issue with StartingPathMatcher vila,
[12:52] <mgz> is that I'm not sure if it's just trying to operate on local paths, or whether the if 'file://' check is intended to let other absolute urls through
[12:52] <vila> . o O (Amazing how apparently simple proposals can raise so many issues ;)
[12:52] <vila> mgz: same as locations.conf,
[12:53] <jelmer> vila: I think this is just a single issue with it - it keeps the brokenness that's present in the previous implementation
[12:53] <vila> mgz: the aim is (and was) to allow paths where internally we also deal with urls
[12:53] <jelmer> vila: I never questioned whether or not you cared :)
[12:53] <vila> hehe
[12:53] <mgz> which would be weird, because then the self.location could be either a url or a filesystem path when the slash handling goes on
[12:53] <vila> jelmer: but I can't fix all brokeness at once ;)
[12:54] <mgz> vila: the problem is the proposal isn't also deleting the old logic, so it's not clear you're not to blame :)
[12:54] <vila> mgz: yeah, not super pretty, I know, but that's what we have
[12:54] <vila> oh my deleting the old logic will have to wait for all plugins to stop using the old implementation....
[12:55] <mgz> right :)
[12:55] <vila> well, for bzr itself to stop using it to start with
[12:55] <vila> I fired that one to *avoid* reusing locations.conf logic for new config files (the section ordering in this case)
[12:56] <vila> because I didn't want to have to deal with this brokeness in /etc/bazaar/defaults.conf or whatever we call it
[12:56] <vila> I'm not a big fan of using urls in config files either mainly because the smart server ignore many options coming from there
[12:57] <mgz> anyway, this is livable with, provided you define in the docstring what 'location' may be in practice, and add some XXX about making this saner
[12:58] <vila> yeah, there are 2 call sites: initial location conversion, section id conversion, we need a bunch of tests around these anyway (the bugs I mentioned above are also around these calls)
[12:59] <vila> .. and I haven't mentioned allowing relative paths there either ;)
[12:59] <mgz> just enumerating what doesn't work and listing bugs right there would help
[13:00] <vila> ... which open another can of worms: if these paths are inside a bzr tree, should we apply the renames too ? ;)
[13:00] <mgz> right now, the code has various assumptions and it's not clear what they are
[13:00] <jelmer> I think that would reduce some of my concerns about this code as well
[13:00] <vila> right, I'm slowly discovering pitfalls and trying to make them clearer
[13:00] <vila> \o/
[13:01] <jelmer> I'm still not convinced that doing it right would actually be that much harder than what you have at the moment, but I'll defer to your judgement on that
[13:02] <vila> yeah, may be I resigned too soon last time or may be too many issues were making it harder to understand...
[13:02] <vila> I remember having to followup once or twice after my first attempt landed
[13:03] <vila> but I was focused on minimizing differences between the old and the new implementation
[13:04] <mgz> that's the kind of thing that is also useful to say in a docstring
[13:04] <vila> at least now, it's all contained in a single class
[13:04] <vila> 'that' ?
[13:05] <mgz> "logic intended to be compatible with previous implementation config.olf_function"
[13:05] <mgz> or similar.
[13:05] <mgz> olf? old.
[13:07] <mgz> I think the sky castle here is something like urlparse and poping from the tail to determine heirachy
[13:08] <mgz> after converting input string to url from relpath etc
[13:08] <vila> instead of just startswith ?
[13:08] <mgz> clearly just looking at the path section one segment at a time is enough for nearly all cases though
[13:09] <vila> not to mention globs :-/
[13:10] <mgz> yeah, so you could say that http://example.com/bzr/branch?why=1/2 is in the same line as http://example.com/bzr/branch
[13:11] <vila> the former starts with the later
[13:12] <vila> oooh, jelmer, did you have some colo use case in mind ?
[13:13] <mgz> ah, I see, but then say that http://example.com/bzr/branch_X isn't in the same line
[13:13] <vila> yeah :-/
[13:13] <vila> but is it really an issue ?
[13:13] <mgz> colo has kicked up a bunch of issues around this by wanting to stick stuff on the end of locations
[13:13] <vila> and potentially in the middle too
[13:14] <jelmer> mgz: colocated branch names don't have slashes in them though
[13:14] <mgz> you have a bug report requesting that :)
[13:15] <jelmer> mgz: slashes have to be urlencoded
[13:16] <mgz> say you wanted a location config for all your colo branches named 'trunk'
[13:16] <mgz> would you invision having a section like [file:,branch=trunk] with rules?
[13:17] <mgz> that's a relative path, not a glob
[13:17]  * mgz ponders
[13:17] <vila>   /path/asdfasdf/*/trunk
[13:17] <mgz> would you invision having a section like [file://*,branch=trunk] with rules?
[13:17] <jelmer> mgz: I think the latter makes most sense, probably
[13:17] <jelmer> mgz: I don't think colocated branches (or rather, path segment parameters) need special casing
[13:17] <vila> you have a branch.conf too,
[13:18] <vila> so the other conf files should not be abused (not to mention you can move your branch and keep your settings)
[13:18] <jelmer> as an example, I currently always have "email" in branches named "unstable" set to "Jelmer Vernooij<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:18] <jelmer> independent of what project they're in
[13:19] <mgz> heh, I guess the glob would work with branches hidden in .bzr
[13:19] <vila> jelmer: and this works for colo branches right ?
[13:19] <jelmer> vila: I haven't tried it for colo branhces, but I don't see why it wouldn't
[13:20] <vila> me neither
[13:21] <vila> jelmer: errr, waitasec, what section name do you use for this ?
[13:23] <jelmer> IIRC [/home/jelmer/src/*/unstable]
[13:23] <vila> if I'm not mistaken it will fail for /home/jelmer/src/xxx/experimental/unstable
[13:24] <vila> i.e. locations.conf will match '*' with a *single* path component
[13:24] <jelmer> ah, I see. So I guess it won't work for colocated branches then
[13:25] <vila> to match on the colo branch name, no, but to apply to all colo branches yes
[13:26] <jelmer> anyway, I'm not really worried about that right now :)
[13:29] <vila> ...hmm, but StartingPathMatcher will match, damn, forgot to mention that... gee
[13:30] <jelmer> vila: are you sure?
[13:31] <jelmer> in that case it seems like file://foo/bar will also match file://foo/bars ?
[13:31] <jelmer> which would be Bad
[13:31] <vila> well, locations.conf split the path and then try to match each component and also sort on the number of components (my issue with it)
[13:31] <jelmer> vila: the components won't match for colocated branches
[13:32] <jelmer> file://bar/bar vs file://bar/bar,branch=foo
[13:32] <vila> sorry, components from split('/')
[13:32] <vila> after removing the final '/' if present
[13:39] <jelmer> right, so colocated branches won't match
[13:41] <vila> if you have a section named /foo/bar and a branch named file:///foo/bar,branch=baz the section will apply I think, by luck, but apply...
[13:48] <jelmer> vila: if that is the case, wouldn't file://foo/bars also match?
[13:48] <vila> if the section is named foo/bar ? It should match
[13:48] <vila> even /foo/bar/ :-/
[13:49] <jelmer> urgh
[13:49] <vila> yeah
[13:49] <vila> note that nobody complained... yet :-/
[13:51] <vila> s/yet/so far/
[13:58] <vila> oh crap, smart server timing out while debugging :-(
[14:26] <vila> uuurgh,
[14:26] <vila> I found one cause of smart server calling get_config_file too much:
[14:27] <vila> in at least one case, both the remote branch and the real_branch will ask for it :-/
[14:27] <jelmer> vila: we shouldn't be using the real branch anymore in a lot of cases
[14:28] <vila> I'm working on a branch based on bzr.dev@6404
[14:29] <vila> the test is bzrlib.tests.per_branch.test_branch.TestStrict.test_strict_history(RemoteBranchFormat-v2)
[14:30] <vila> hmm
[14:31] <vila> jelmer: could it be that a failure in the smart server triggers a fallback to real_branch in the client ? I'm having a weird behavior right now:
[14:31] <vila> I encounter either LockNotHeld errors or SIGPIPE or... no errors but a use of real_branch
[14:32] <vila> AFAICS only pulls should be triggered, does that requires real_branch still ?
[14:32] <jelmer> vila: no, that shouldn't require real_branch
[14:32] <vila> jelmer: not sure if my description makes sense... ask for details if you need
[14:32] <vila> crap, so some error is swallowed :-(
[14:33] <jelmer> vila: I'm not sure that is the case, perhaps there's something oither than a pull here?
[14:33] <vila> the test do commits and pulls
[14:33] <vila> well, sprout, setting appen_revisions_only to start with too
[14:33] <vila> ha, and some merge_from_branch
[14:34] <vila> but all the trees should be local
[14:34] <vila> (but the branches should be remote)
[14:35] <vila> if I put breakpoints where LockNotHeld should raise, it stops raising... naughty
[14:37] <vila> oh, progress, I'm at the raising call site...
[14:40] <vila> weird, the real_branch is not None but still cannot be unlocked (so still some real_branch involved....)
[14:44] <vila> jelmer: any advice about debugging lock issues with the smart objects ?
[14:45] <jelmer> vila: not really, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to debug
[14:45] <vila> well, I don't really know myself :-/
[14:46] <vila> AFAICS I didn't touch any locking stuff
[14:46] <vila> hmm, or did I *remove* some ?
[14:47] <vila> hmm, so, I'm working on changing stack.set() to not call store.save() but instead wait until branch.unlock() to save the config file
[14:48] <vila> so far, I've fixed only a few places in the code and fixed the blackbox tests that were mixing config settings on branch objects and run_bzr() calls
[14:49] <vila> and I've got all blackbox tests passing, so presumably my fixes are not that bad
[14:49] <jelmer> vila: you probably need some magic in Branch._ensure_real
[14:49] <jelmer> vila: a write lock on RemoteBranch can be upgraded to a write lock on the real branch
[14:50] <vila> the trick is that I don't lock anything anymore (for config purposes) relying on ... damn it, let's try something
[14:51] <vila> nope
[14:52] <vila> so, relying on callers to always write lock branches when setting new values for options (which seems  correct so far, except for the tests themselves)
[14:52] <jelmer> vila: if you do that, you probably want to also assert that the branch is locked when setting new options?
[14:54] <vila> hmm
[14:54] <vila> I didn't so far...
[14:55] <vila> .. fearing useless IOs ??
[14:55] <vila> which is ridiculous, let's try that
[14:56] <jelmer> I don't think checking *we* have a write lock causes extra IO
[14:57] <vila> yup, but it means I need the .branch attribute for BranchStore which I was hoping to get rid of, nm
[15:03] <vila> hmm, no difference for the current test, but more blackbox failures to deal with
[15:03] <vila> pfew, 59
[15:04] <vila> jelmer: any objection on making branch write-locking mandatory to set an option ?
[15:06] <jelmer> vila: sounds reasonable to me
[15:06] <vila> (previously we were taking one on the config file itself without involving the branch anyway...(
[15:06] <vila> ))
[15:12] <jelmer> mgz: any plans on landing your no_locale_hacks mp?
[15:14] <mgz> some, still a little concerned about the effect on random scripts using bzrlib directly
[15:18] <mgz> basically, on nix only, if they don't call setlocale,
[15:19] <mgz> currently they can do some things involving non-ascii characters, but not open non-ascii files or write non-ascii data to some streams
[15:20] <mgz> the branch means a few more things won't work unless setlocale is called.
[15:21] <jelmer> mgz: are you having seconds thoughts about it, or do you have anything in mind to address that?
[15:23] <mgz> well, could change the fallback value, but that probably does more harm than good for a corner case.
[15:42] <vila> ok, blackbox failures fixed, the diff is now >1400 lines and I've still to address the ~50 remaining failures :-/
[15:43] <vila> and the previous test is still failing ;)
[15:44] <vila> jelmer: another nice suggestion like the previous one ? :-P
[15:44] <vila> kidding really
[15:44] <vila> I've found interesting cases with this one ;)
[15:44] <jelmer> vila: perhaps split out the change to require a write lock for config changes?
[15:45] <vila> oh, I will split out the change, there are already 4 or 5 mps in my wip
[15:45] <vila> and many controversial changes... like,
[15:46] <vila> if you have read-access only to a branch you cannot push it anymore...(well, unless you had write access when you set push_location)
[15:47] <vila> or the fact that we save some config settings even if the operation fails
[15:47] <vila> on the bright side, some hpss_calls went down !
[15:52] <jelmer> :)
[16:00] <vila> O
[16:00] <vila> M
[16:00] <vila> G
[16:00] <vila> RemoteBranchStore you idiot !
[16:01] <vila> ...and I stay polite
[16:01] <vila> I completely missed to do the same changes I did on BranchStore
[16:41] <vila> @only_raises is evil
[16:47] <jelmer> yep
[16:49] <mgz> ehehe, naughty jelmer
[16:50] <mgz> went with 'stronk' for the branch name :)
[16:50] <vila> that's where I lost the exceptions I was searching for...
[16:50] <jelmer> mgz: stronk is dutch for "branch" :)
[16:50] <jelmer> mgz: strong was the typo, not the other way around :)
[16:51] <mgz> ehehe
[16:51] <vila> of course, now that I know,  calling store.save_changes() in unlock()... cannot fail with that ;)
[16:58] <mgz> hm, should probably just do this change, it's low impact
[17:10] <bzr-RM> jelmer: woohoo !!!!
[17:10] <vila> :)
[17:11] <jelmer> vila: hmm?
[17:11] <vila> noticed your what's new update ;)
[17:12] <jelmer> ah :)
[18:06] <glen> hi, how new bzr i need here to merge then? http://pastebin.com/hM6mWAs9
[18:07] <glen> it says i need 1.16 or newer, i have 2.4.2 and it's not new enough still?
[18:09] <jelmer> glen: your repository locally is too old
[18:10] <jelmer> glen: you probably want to run "bzr upgrade"
[18:10] <glen> but i just checkouted it (branched it)
[18:10] <jelmer> glen: the remote repository that you cloned was probably also in an old format
[18:10] <glen> how do i upgrade remote repo?
[18:11] <jelmer> glen: "bzr upgrade <url>"
[18:11] <glen> "bzr upgrade lp:eventum" ?
[18:11] <jelmer> yep
[18:11] <glen> i need lots of bandwidth for that too?
[18:11] <jelmer> For launchpad branches I think there is also a link on the branch page that can do it for you
[18:11] <wgz> vila: I'm reasonably sure your odd babune debug-windows failures are pyx drift
[18:12] <glen> jelmer: but how fresh version it lp web updates to? i need 2.0.4 support
[18:13] <wgz> vila: tests pass here, failure makes no sense, and module path goes from "c:\cygwin\home\babune\babune\slaves\xp-32bits.local\workspace\debug-windows\bzrlib\workingtree_4.py" to "_dirstate_helpers_pyx.pyx"
[18:13] <wgz> which implies a dirty cwd, but the error is still weird
[18:14] <wgz> glen: the current format works with 2.0 clients still
[18:15] <glen> does bzr have concept of svn:eol-style ?
[18:16] <wgz> no, but you can set a similar thing globally for your local branches
[18:20] <wgz> see <http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-reference/eol-help.html>
[18:21] <wgz> vila: previous reference to these failures (thanks email search) <https://code.launchpad.net/~gz/bzr/url_unquote_unreserved_842223/+merge/82309/comments/177821>
[18:24] <wgz> hm, I see, it's building with cygwin's gcc, and pyrex not cython
[18:25] <wgz> so perhaps the failures relate to that, the debug-windows setup is not the same as the selftest-windows setup maybe?
[18:44] <wgz> hm, random poking isn't getting me anywhere, but does show that the .pyx file being used isn't the one from the build process I think
[18:45] <wgz> enough for today.