[00:01] <moqq> is there any timeline on the release of 1.23?
[00:01] <jrwren> i thought it was out?
[00:01] <jrwren> i was wrong.
[00:05] <lazyPower> jrwren: its still in devel ppa, close to release however
[00:05] <lazyPower> moqq: I cannot offer a hard ETA - but its rounding the final phase of Q/A and poking, i would imagine we'll see it land next week
[00:06] <moqq> great, thank you
[00:06] <jrwren> lazyPower: that is what confused me.
[00:06] <lazyPower> jrwren: come at me and my actions bro https://github.com/chuckbutler/docker-charm/commit/e72fd0d5b21071806e661b8c0e548884e26d3f60 ;)
[00:07] <jrwren> lazyPower: why me?
[00:07]  * jrwren runs away
[00:07] <lazyPower> because I like tormenting you when you're around? :D
[00:07] <jrwren> hahaha. fair!
[00:07] <jrwren> lazyPower: you should see some of the terrible things I've done lately :)
[00:07]  * lazyPower eyes narrow
[00:08] <jrwren> lazyPower: foregone logstash-forwarder for beaver, because its easier.
[00:08] <lazyPower> oh yeah?!
[00:08] <lazyPower> bro, we need to talk about logstash server.
[00:08] <lazyPower> I've got a branch thats getting fairly mature, that needs third party eyes
[00:09] <jrwren> lazyPower: we definitely need to talk, because I too have a branch. we need to come together.
[00:09] <lazyPower> are you running my branch for trusty in the UIX prodstack?
[00:09] <lazyPower> or did you fork it and cycle on your own stuff?
[00:09] <jrwren> not yet
[00:09] <jrwren> i forked your branch and hacked it up.
[00:09] <lazyPower> ok, so my thought is this
[00:09] <lazyPower> i just landed a big merge from IS that adds some nice goodies in there
[00:10] <lazyPower> think you can port those to your branch, and we can do a review on tests+polish+actions
[00:10] <jrwren> https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/beaver-charm and https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/charms/trusty/logstash/trunk
[00:10] <lazyPower> adn then make a proposal for trusty?
[00:10] <jrwren> I'll take a look.
[00:10] <lazyPower> oh man
[00:10] <lazyPower> you like, neutered half the relations
[00:10] <jrwren> did i?
[00:10] <jrwren> oh yeah.
[00:10] <lazyPower>     major rework. remove ampq and redis, add raw tcp
[00:10] <jrwren> we can put those back.
[00:11] <jrwren> running redis server seems overkill.
[00:11] <lazyPower> just add raw tcp, and block config sections with jinja
[00:11] <lazyPower> well, are you running a 30 node cluster?
[00:11] <jrwren> if gonna use redis, shouldn't i use the redis charm?
[00:11] <lazyPower> 30 node cluster + redis queueing = kinda the reference arch for this stack.
[00:11] <lazyPower> we shoudl be yeah
[00:11] <jrwren> I found no evidence of any reference arch for this stack :)
[00:12] <lazyPower> hate me all you want - i got it from here: http://www.logstashbook.com/
[00:12] <jrwren> hey me too!
[00:12] <lazyPower> <3
[00:12] <jrwren> i got the paper copy
[00:12] <jrwren> I'm really impressed with the typesetting.
[00:12] <jrwren> Its really a pleasure to read.
[00:13] <lazyPower> so anywho - if your charm operates more reliably than the franken-java-monster we have now
[00:13] <lazyPower> lets converge on that - get IS to test it in staging and see how it goes
[00:13] <jrwren> yeah, lets do that.
[00:13] <lazyPower> or OIL actually, they would probably be interested in this as well
[00:13] <jrwren> see also, the warning on page 193 :p
[00:15] <lazyPower> I'm in malta starting Sunday - can you feesably look at this sometime in the next 2 weeks? I'll lend some later-workday-hours to pair
[00:15] <lazyPower> after the malta sprint, and we'll go from there
[00:15] <jrwren> that timing matches us reasonably well.
[00:15] <lazyPower> i got poked by IS to get this thing in the CS sooner rather than later, and i'm doing one of these numbers @_@
[00:15] <jrwren> we are JUST getting this into a std. dev env.
[00:15] <jrwren> another week we may have it into our staging env
[00:15] <lazyPower> ok sweet, so timing works then.
[00:16] <lazyPower> Take a look at this MP, and see if this makes sense to you - as this was the big feature branch they wanted landed pre-store-inclusion. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lazypower/charms/trusty/logstash/trunk/revision/47
[00:17] <jrwren> ha! ssl
[00:17] <lazyPower> kind of important really :)
[00:17] <jrwren> so... SSL was a reason I went beaver isntead of logstash-forwarder
[00:17] <lazyPower> <3 them for contributing that
[00:17] <jrwren> its entirely unimportant if you aren't accepting logs from outside.
[00:18] <jrwren> all the comms from LS to ES are entirely unencrypted.
[00:18] <jrwren> its faux security
[00:18] <jrwren> and much added complexity
[00:18] <jrwren> but cool that they did it as config.
[00:19] <jrwren> before I gave up on it I was considering self signed generation and serving that to LSF on relation get
[00:19] <lazyPower> there's charmhelpers to take care of SSL generation/consumption
[00:19] <jrwren> nice.
[00:19] <lazyPower> you know about this right?
[00:19] <jrwren> i've not seen that part of helpers
[00:19] <lazyPower> 1 sec, fishing link
[00:20] <jrwren> so far this patch is +10
[00:20] <lazyPower> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charm-helpers/charm-helpers/devel/files/head:/charmhelpers/contrib/ssl/
[00:22] <jrwren> very cool.
[00:22] <lazyPower> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/trusty/nagios/trunk/revision/12
[00:22] <lazyPower> line88 = consuming of that code, and generating self signed certs
[00:22] <lazyPower> er, line88 of upgrade-charm hook
[00:23] <lazyPower> so those may help you moving forward when you need SSL certs
[00:23] <lazyPower> and you can use self-signed certs
[00:23] <lazyPower> i nkow there are many cases where that ignites fire, and causes headaches. Namely when dealing with anything on the consuming end that expects a valid CA Signed SSL certificate
[00:24] <jrwren> yeah, so that works for that use case.
[00:24] <lazyPower> in term so flogstash - you could push to /usr/local/share/ssl/ca-certificates/ and run update-ca-certificates, and the self signed would no longer raise alarms.
[00:24] <lazyPower> *push the ca cert
[00:25] <lazyPower> and that could be done w/ base64 encoding over a relationship
[00:25] <jrwren> logstash-forwarder has a ca config line
[00:25] <lazyPower> so perfect
[00:25] <jrwren> yes, exactly what I was considering
[00:25] <lazyPower> \o/
[00:25] <jrwren> but now I don't need it :p
[00:25] <lazyPower> i find your lack of encryption disturbing ;)
[00:25] <jrwren> *shrug*
[00:25] <jrwren> i worked at a security company :p
[00:26] <jrwren> it get... complecated.
[00:26] <jrwren> for example, what do you do when you add more units to the logstash service?
[00:27] <lazyPower> in terms of ssl?
[00:28] <lazyPower> the way i see it, you have 2 options. hand over all the keys in a peer relationship and install them or 2) go nuts generating keys and do key management
[00:30] <jrwren> you'll have to do 2
[00:30] <jrwren> because with 1 your CN no longer matches the address to which you are connecting
[00:32] <lazyPower> fair, i had not thought about CN based rejections. Stinking common name validation
[00:34] <jrwren> so you have to use subject alternative names
[00:34] <jrwren> which is not so easy to automate in openssl command lien
[00:35] <jrwren> I would love to see it done :)
[00:35] <jrwren> heck, at that point, someone could write up a very nice "run your own CA" charm :)
[00:37] <jrwren> so all that said, I see great value in both solutions, hence our building of that beaver charm last week.
[00:40] <lazyPower> fair enough - i can see/understand the need to GSD before you tackle the wall
[00:50] <lazyPower> jrwren: i forgot about UOS coming week after the sprint. if we get slammed lets touch base at least and see where we're at in terms of time/exploration.
[00:50] <lazyPower> and with that note, i'm goign to head out for the evening. Cheers o/
[00:51] <jrwren> gnight lazyPower travel safely
[01:03] <moqq> this is correct?:  JUJU_DEV_FEATURE_FLAG=actions juju bootstrap
[01:05] <moqq> ahhhgg. juju destroy-environment appears to leave the vagrant box image in an unusable state. after i destroy the initial environment and try to bootstrap again, i only get “ ERROR juju.cmd supercommand.go:430 cannot initiate replica set: cannot get replica set configuration: cannot get replset config: not authorized for query on local.system.replset”
[03:27]  * thumper frowns
[03:27] <thumper> wallyworld: you around?
[03:27] <wallyworld> yeah
[03:28] <thumper> so I'm trying to upgrade my ec2 env
[03:28] <thumper> it is currently using 1.20.14
[03:28] <thumper> my client is 1.22.1
[03:28] <thumper> juju upgrade-juju says: "no upgrades available"
[03:28] <thumper> any idea why?
[03:29] <wallyworld> um
[03:30] <wallyworld> do you have a tools-url setting in use?
[03:30]  * thumper looks
[03:30] <wallyworld> just saw this in the code :-(
[03:30] <wallyworld> 			// No tools found and we shouldn't upload any, so if we are not asking for a
[03:30] <wallyworld> 			// major upgrade, pretend there is no more recent version available.
[03:31] <wallyworld> why oh why
[03:31] <thumper> juju get-env tools-url says nothing
[03:31] <thumper> ?
[03:31] <wallyworld> might be tools-metadata-url
[03:31] <thumper> 2015-04-24 03:16:00 DEBUG juju.cmd.juju upgradejuju.go:367 found more recent current version 1.20.14
[03:31] <thumper> 2015-04-24 03:16:00 INFO juju.cmd cmd.go:113 no upgrades available
[03:31] <wallyworld> so that comment was from the upgrade code
[03:31] <thumper> that is from the log
[03:32] <thumper> this is a very vanilla ec2 deploy
[03:32] <thumper> I'm wondering why we are telling people there are no upgrades available when there obviously are
[03:33] <wallyworld> me too
[03:33] <wallyworld> ok, what about juju metadata validate-tools (i think)
[03:33] <moqq> i’m glad i wasn’t going crazy then
[03:33] <moqq> i thought that was strange too
[03:34] <thumper> wallyworld: what does the validate tools do?
[03:34] <wallyworld> if prints the available tools and where it finds them
[03:34] <wallyworld> or more accurately, the tools it would use
[03:34] <thumper> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10876012/
[03:35] <thumper> so... WTF?
[03:35] <wallyworld> ok so that's good
[03:35] <wallyworld> good in that your client can fin the expected tol
[03:35] <wallyworld> tools
[03:35] <wallyworld> bad in that it refuses to use them
[03:35] <wallyworld> so we can narrow down where to look for the issue
[03:36] <wallyworld> i'll read the code a bit to see if anything jumps out
[03:36] <thumper> wallyworld: also, (since I'm not working today) can you file a bug about the help text for upgrade-juju?
[03:36] <thumper> wallyworld: it still says minor numbers are dev versions
[03:36] <wallyworld> sure
[03:37] <thumper> wallyworld: I did 'juju upgrade-juju --version 1.22.1' and it worked
[03:38] <wallyworld> hmmm, so the automatic new version selection fails
[03:38] <wallyworld> the relevant comment
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// No explicitly specified version, so find the version to which we
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// need to upgrade. If the CLI and agent major versions match, we find
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// next available stable release to upgrade to by incrementing the
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// minor version, starting from the current agent version and doing
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// major.minor+1. If the CLI has a greater major version,
[03:38] <wallyworld> 		// we just use the CLI version as is.
[03:38] <bradm> anyone know how you get a charm added to trusty?  bip is currently only in precise, I followed what looked to be the instructions at https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/authors-charm-store#recommended-charms and filed LP#1401774, but there is literally no movement.
[03:39] <wallyworld> bradm: marcoceppi_ would be one person to ask, i have NFI
[03:40] <bradm> I filed this bug about 4 months ago now..
[03:40] <bradm> marcoceppi_: can you have a look at LP#1401774 when you're about and have time?  trying to get the bip charm into trusty.
[03:41] <wallyworld> thumper: one guess i have quickly looking at the code is that we still seem to expect to only upgrade from x.y to x.y+1
[03:42] <wallyworld> that's if we don't specify an explicit version
[03:42] <wallyworld> so in your case, it was looking for 1.21
[03:42] <thumper> hmm...
[03:42] <wallyworld> not sure why it couldn't find that
[03:42] <wallyworld> and anyway, that's wrong
[03:42]  * thumper nods
[03:42]  * thumper goes to make a coffee
[03:42] <wallyworld> i'll file a bug
[03:47] <moqq> hey i can’t find in the docs anything detailing exactly what ports/routes are needed between the juju client and the rest of the cluster. is it ssh from the client machine to every machine in the cluster?
[03:47] <moqq> and what the “tools storage” port 8040 is exactly used for / by whom
[03:50] <wallyworld> moqq: tools storage port is no longer used for new installs
[03:50] <moqq> oh excellent
[03:51] <wallyworld> the main port is 17070 used to connect the client to the state servers
[03:51] <wallyworld> and ssh
[03:51] <moqq> the 17070 is a mongodb port?
[03:51] <wallyworld> the client can ssh to each node, but it can proxy via the state server i think
[03:51] <moqq> ah ok
[03:52] <wallyworld> no, mongo uses 37017
[03:52] <wallyworld> but only the state server connects to that
[03:52] <moqq> okay. and there is only one state server per cluster?
[03:52] <moqq> per ‘environment’ *
[03:53] <wallyworld> by default, but there is high availability also so a cluster of state servers is supported
[03:53] <moqq> ah ok
[03:53] <wallyworld> 1, 3, 5, 7 etc
[03:53] <wallyworld> odd numbers because it uses a mongo replicaset
[03:53] <moqq> yep
[03:53] <moqq> so, to issue commands to an environemnt (like deploy or actions), the machine running the juju client needs only to be able talk the master server(s) via tcp 37017
[03:53] <moqq> correct?
[03:53] <wallyworld> 17070
[03:54] <moqq> erm*
[03:54] <moqq> yes
[03:54] <wallyworld> yes
[03:54] <moqq> excellent, thank you
[03:54] <wallyworld> sure, np
[03:54] <wallyworld> i can't recall if ssh proxy is enabled by default
[03:55] <wallyworld> if it is, you can also ssh to worker nodes via the state server also, so 17070 should be all you need the client to connect to
[03:55] <moqq> yeah that makes sense. neat
[03:55] <moqq> just curious, what protocol is it carrying over 17070?
[03:57] <wallyworld> proxy-ssh is true by default for new environments
[03:57] <wallyworld> websocket
[03:57] <moqq> over https?
[03:57] <wallyworld> https based
[03:57] <moqq> awesome
[03:57] <wallyworld> when an env is bootstrapped, certs are generated
[03:57] <moqq> i saw those in there, that makes sense.
[03:59] <moqq> thanks again for the info. getting this into production with a handful of custom charms over the coming week and a half so i will likely have a few more inquiries!
[04:02] <wallyworld> moqq: sure, np. there's more people in #juju-dev so you will have most luck asking in there
[04:02] <wallyworld> ask any questions and we'll try and help
[04:02] <wallyworld> there's also the mailing list
[04:02] <wallyworld> good luck with the roll out
[04:07] <moqq> awesome, thank you
[04:22] <lazyPower> bradm: Updates to trusty are predicated by test inclusion - if you can contribute some amulet tests to the bip charm it would expedite the process
[04:22] <lazyPower> ah disregard, i made that statement while still reading backlog and not looking @ the bug
[04:22]  * lazyPower stands in teh corner
[04:36] <bradm> lazyPower: ayup.  as far as I can tell there's tests there.  I might need to update the branch from precise trunk since its been filed so long ago
[04:37] <lazyPower> bradm: sorry about that - i dont see it in our RevQ, and id ont know why thats the case
[04:37] <lazyPower> status new + linked branch should have pulled it in
[04:37] <bradm> lazyPower: I'm planning to rewrite it in services framework, it should be pretty simple
[04:37] <lazyPower> :thumbsup: I look forward to seeing that :)
[04:37] <bradm> lazyPower: no worries, I couldn't see it in the review queue either, so I finally got time to go looking
[04:37] <bradm> lazyPower: I have a couple of thruk charms to throw charmers way once I get tests added
[04:38] <bradm> lazyPower: those are all in the services framework
[04:39] <bradm> lazyPower: anyway, for the bip charm push up to trusty, if we can get it on someones radar to see whats going on, that'd be awesome.  its not a hugely high priority, bip is kind of my play charm that I push along when I get a chance
[08:14] <jcapel> I thought I'd give juju a go on my freshly installed 15.04 server, but juju-quickstart fails. It seems to assume the system is using upstart (it fails on start juju-db)
[09:09] <bloodearnest> hmm, can I file/reassign a bug to a specific charm? Seems I can only assign to "charms" project
[09:19] <jamespage> marcoceppi_, hey - how do I see why the charm release yesterday has not ingested into the store?
[09:20] <marcoceppi_> jamespage: great question, no idea anymore. If it passes proof it should be ingested. Are you not seeing it in the gui or not deployable?
[09:21] <jamespage> marcoceppi_, https://jujucharms.com/cinder/
[09:21] <jamespage> vs the branch on launchpad
[09:21] <marcoceppi_> https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:trusty/cinder
[09:21] <marcoceppi_> seems revision 18 is in the store
[09:22] <marcoceppi_> this is a charmstore api thing, you'll need to ping rick_h_ & co to investigate
[09:23] <marcoceppi_> jamespage: actually, they do seem to be the same
[09:23] <marcoceppi_> so this might be a larger issue
[09:24]  * marcoceppi_ investigates
[09:25] <marcoceppi_> jamespage: it seems that what's in lp:~openstack-charmers/charms/trusty/cinder/trunk is in the charmstore proper
[09:25] <marcoceppi_> the gui seems to have the same revision, but the revision history is off
[09:26] <marcoceppi_> which makes sense, I think the api is mid-transision away from tracking dvcs info
[09:26] <marcoceppi_> rick_h_ and the ui team would know more
[10:54] <rick_h_> jamespage: marcoceppi_ there's a bug with the new charmstore not getting the up to date changelog and the guys on are it. The charm itself, the readme, etc is all good but it's missing the latest revisions in the changelog.
[11:07] <marcoceppi_> rick_h_: that's what it seemed like, I figured we were just going to drop that in a juju publish world
[11:07] <rick_h_> marcoceppi_: well our goal will be to try to keep it if we can tell but yea. Might end up being a link to the homepage/etc
[11:09] <marcoceppi_> rick_h_: ack, thanks for the clarification
[11:18] <Mmike> Hey, guys,. I run `juju run --service myservice "someSuperDuperStuff.sh`, and that fails with timeout for some units. But at the same time I'm able to do 'juju ssh myservice/{0,1,2,3...}' with no problem(s)
[11:19] <Mmike> how is juju run implemented, and why whould it time out, how do I start debugging this?
[11:28] <marcoceppi_> Mmike: juju run is run as a hook context, so if you have hooks running or is someSuperDuperStuff.sh never exits
[11:28] <marcoceppi_> it'll timeout
[11:43] <Mmike> marcoceppi_: aaaa, makes sense!
[11:43] <Mmike> marcoceppi_: thnx! :)
[11:43] <Mmike> i do have hooks still running
[11:48] <marcoceppi_> Mmike: so the juju run is queued
[11:49] <marcoceppi_> Mmike: you'd probalby be interested in actions, which is like run with some structure and async nature
[11:51] <Mmike> marcoceppi_: for now I can really do 'juju ssh' in a for loop
[11:51] <Mmike> marcoceppi_: is there a document(ation) describing how to use juju actions?
[11:53] <marcoceppi_> Mmike: yes, there is: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/authors-charm-actions
[11:53] <Mmike> oh
[11:53] <Mmike> neat!
[11:53] <Mmike> marcoceppi_++ thnx
[12:08] <urulama> jamespage: is this the proper cinder now? https://jujucharms.com/cinder
[17:30] <jhobbs> Hi - is there a way to specify a revision of the launchpad branch for a charm in deployer bundles?
[20:23] <hatch> is there any way to expose a port on a unit from the juju CLI?
[20:25] <jrwren> nope
[20:25] <hatch> ok how about any way to expose a port besides the hook context
[20:27] <hatch> doesn't look like I cna change it from the aws console
[20:29] <jrwren> yeah, you can, edit the security group.
[20:32] <lazyPower> hatch: juju run --service "open-port 80"
[20:33] <lazyPower> Anon hook context == hook context. I use this when developing and i forget to set an open-port statement.
[20:33] <hatch> lazyPower: very cool trick! Thanks!
[20:33] <jrwren> been looking for that for a year(almost) is it documented?
[20:34] <hatch> (not that I could find) heh
[20:34] <hatch> well juju run is
[20:34] <hatch> so this is just a really cool technique :)
[20:36] <jrwren> the key there is that the unit tools path is in PATH when using --service. That is great!
[20:38] <jrwren> bah, its right there in the juju run help.


[00:55] <bryce> tjaalton: hmm still haven't seen the uploads come through; perhaps something is stuck
[01:02] <ubotu> New bug: #188549 in xserver-xorg-driver-nv "Hardy a4: graphics on XPS m1330" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188549
[02:05] <ubotu> New bug: #193544 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad not detected on MacBook Santa Rosa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193544
[03:26] <ubotu> New bug: #144914 in compiz (main) "putting glxgears below another window when running compiz looks funny (dup-of: 96991)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144914
[03:46] <ubotu> New bug: #148434 in compiz (main) "compiz opengl rendering artefacts (dragging, rotating) (dup-of: 96991)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148434
[03:46] <bryce> (yes, I've gone on a dupe spree *grin*)
[03:50] <bryce> tjaalton: I've set bug 96991 as the master for all the compiz/3d redirected direct rendering issues.
[03:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 96991 in xorg-server "3D stuff breaks with Compiz:  Redirected Direct Rendering is needed in DRI" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96991
[03:55] <bryce> down to 1377 total bugs
[06:10] <tjaalton> bryce: maybe the archive was frozen already
[06:10] <bryce> morning tjaalton
[06:10] <bryce> no I think it's a soft "on your honor" freeze
[06:11] <tjaalton> hmm
[06:13] <tjaalton> slangasek send an email saying that main is frozen, but it shouldn't have been at the time
[06:13] <bryce> tjaalton: should we ask slangasek or someone for help?
[06:13] <tjaalton> bryce: I think so
[06:13] <tjaalton> maybe also with syncing -ati?
[06:15] <bryce> yeah
[06:20] <bryce> there's a platform meeting on #ubuntu-meeting he'll be at in about half an hour; might be good to bump his elbow about these things at the start of that
[06:21] <tjaalton> oh ok, I'll be there
[06:35] <tjaalton> bryce: what should we do with input-hotplug? all this time there has been the possibility to generate an fdi file for it either from xorg.conf or /etc/default/console-setup, but the problem was (and still is) that which package should own the script
[06:36] <bryce> tjaalton: hmm good question.  xorg would be my first guess
[06:36] <bryce> but maybe that's more just because I'm less familiar with console-setup
[06:36] <tjaalton> hal upstream has not answered to my questions about the hal-script approach which would make the fdi-file unnecessary
[06:37] <tjaalton> yeah I think xserver-xorg would be the place
[06:37] <bryce> did you talk with cjwatson about it last week?
[06:38] <tjaalton> yes, and as a result I sent the email to hal-list..
[06:38] <bryce> ok, maybe it would be a good thing to bring up at the meeting tonight
[06:38] <tjaalton> yep
[06:38] <bryce> I need to get direction as well about the xrandr gui.
[06:39] <bryce> I think merging with redhat is the right way to go, but I'm concerned we don't have enough time left
[06:40] <bryce> however with all the bug stuff I did today I feel a *lot* more comfortable about or stability
[06:40] <tjaalton> well, since it's just a gui, it should be able to touch it late in the release process
[06:40] <bryce> getting 965 working was a very important goal, so I'm really glad that all has worked out
[06:41] <tjaalton> I'm concerned about i-h, since there are a number of bugs where I said that "this will be fixed in hardy blahblah" :)
[06:42] <bryce> what's i-h?
[06:42] <bryce> oh input-hotplug?
[06:42] <tjaalton> yeah ;)
[06:42] <tjaalton> or i12 from now on :)
[06:42] <tjaalton> maybe not
[06:42] <bryce> yeah, I've got a long list of input issues I've promised people I'd look at, but haven't yet
[07:24] <tjaalton> bryce: I have to go to the swimming hall, but will get back in ~2h
[07:25] <bryce> ok cool
 bryce: looks like Timo didn't re-sign xorg-server
 07:15:35 WARNING Upload was rejected:
[08:07] <bryce>  07:15:35 WARNING        Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main' of file 'xorg-server_1.4.1~git20080131-1ubuntu4.dsc'
[08:21] <bryce> tjaalton: so I think if you re-debsign my package and upload it, it should go through
[08:21] <bryce> oh, and you may be happy to hear I finally sent in my core-dev app tonight.
[08:25] <bryce> seb128: cjwatson and I discussed about xrandr gui plans at the meeting today
[08:26] <bryce> seb128: after giving it thought, the right approach seems to be to drop what I've been working on and instead focus on integrating and finishing the RedHat tool
[08:26] <seb128> ah, why?
[08:27] <bryce> seb128: cjwatson suggested that I ask if you would be able to assist me with this integration
[08:27] <seb128> sure
[08:28] <bryce> seb128: well, firstly because it seems there is little chance of getting our tool upstream.
[08:28] <bryce> seb128: but also because the underlying structure that redhat has put in place is better designed than what I've rushed together
[08:31] <seb128> ok
[08:31] <bryce> I'm writing a reply to get some additional information; I'll cc you.
[08:34] <seb128> ok
[08:39] <bryce> sent
[08:41] <bryce> seb128: from what it looks like, it will require some integration work to gnome-desktop, gnome-settings-daemon, and gnome-control-center
[08:41] <bryce> seb128: I want to find out if they are using a VCS (currently I just wget -r the files, which is a pain)
[08:42] <bryce> http://www.gnome.org/~ssp/randr/
[08:42] <seb128> bryce: better to reply on the list to ask that, I don't know what they are using
[08:42] <bryce> maybe we take a snapshot and put into bzr to work on...?
[08:42] <seb128> sounds good
[08:43] <bryce> yeah, that was my first question in my email
[08:44] <bryce> seb128: have you worked with Soeren Sandmann before?
[08:46] <seb128> no
[08:47] <mvo> hey bryce! thanks for your mail about i965 and compiz
[08:48] <mvo> we removed the blacklist for it a while ago (when exa was enabled), but I'm happy that I don't have to reenable it again :)
[08:48] <bryce> mvo, :-)
[08:48]  * mvo upgrades his i965 system to test
[08:49] <bryce> mvo, the packages haven't been uploaded quite yet, but should be as soon as tjaalton returns
[08:49] <bryce> but I stuck debs up for testing at http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/Greedy/
[08:52] <bryce> anyway, got an early meeting tomorrow morning.  g'night
[08:54] <mvo> good night
[08:55] <mvo> bryce: works nicely here bte
[08:55] <mvo> btw
[08:55] <mvo> great work!
[10:23] <tjaalton> hmm, I thought that a simple dput -u would've worked, but guess not
[10:31] <tjaalton> yeah, now they got accepted
[12:50] <soren> How do you figure out which driver to use for input?
[13:01] <tjaalton> soren: hmm what do you mean=
[13:01] <tjaalton> ?
[13:02] <soren> Not sure how I can explain it better. I've found the answer, thouhg :)
[13:02] <soren> though..
[13:03] <tjaalton> heh, ok
[13:04] <tjaalton> evdev is the one that input-hotplug uses by default, for instance
[13:05] <soren> input-hotplug?
[13:05] <soren> Ok, it seems that my problem is that mdetect is not installed by default anymore. I'm assuming that's intentional somehow?
[13:06] <soren> ..
[13:06] <soren> No, it seems that won't help me either.
[13:07] <tjaalton> hotplugging input devices, a new feature in xserver 1.4 but not yet used by default
[13:08] <tjaalton> soren: what problems are you having?
[13:08] <soren> I want to use vmmouse when running inside kvm.
[13:08] <soren> That solves pretty much everything.
[13:09] <soren> ...w.r.t. to X pointers, at least.
[13:09] <soren> :)
[13:09] <tjaalton> it's used by default on vmware guests
[13:10] <tjaalton> at least should be
[13:11] <soren> Right, but that depends on a) mdetect being installed when dexconf runs and b) actually running inside vmware (doesn't work with kvm).
[13:11] <tjaalton> right
[13:12] <tjaalton> xserver-xorg recommends mdetect
[13:12] <soren> Well, on the live cd, it's not installed when I log in.
[13:12] <tjaalton> ok, so it's not strong enough
[13:13] <soren> Do you happen to know how fedora does it? They get it right, you see.
[13:13] <tjaalton> nope, no idea
[13:13] <soren> I looked at system-config-display, but ti doesn't say vmmouse anywhere in the source, afaics.
[13:14] <tjaalton> maybe dexconf could use the same QEMU_KVM hack as for the device driver
[13:15] <tjaalton> to detect that it's running under kvm
[13:16] <soren> Well.. We could, but I think it's a horrible, horrible hack.
[13:18] <tjaalton> indeed :)
[13:24] <soren> tjaalton: Oh!
[13:24] <soren> tjaalton: You're the one who did the vmmouse detection stuff in dexconf.
[13:25] <tjaalton> was I
[13:25] <tjaalton> hmm
[13:25] <soren> Oh, you just merged it.
[13:25] <soren> Sorry, it was bryce.
[13:26] <tjaalton> yep, I think it didn't work before, and still doesn't if mdetect isn't installed
[13:26] <soren> bryce: Why bother with the vmmouse_detect thing in dexconf instead of just detecting if the device is there?
[13:30] <tjaalton> and do it in the server?
[13:31] <mvo_> tjaalton: will we get xf86-video-ati 6.8.0 (will that work with our xserver)?
[13:31] <tjaalton> mvo_: after alpha5, and yes it works
[13:31] <mvo_> rock!
[13:31] <soren> tjaalton: Well, dexconf is still fine, but I'm guessing the device itself must be identifiable (rather than looking at the environment)
[13:31] <mvo_> any pre-deps available already? I have a r500 and can't wait to switch to radeon again
[13:32] <tjaalton> mvo_: no, just get the source from debian and build it
[13:32] <tjaalton> mvo_: no 3D though
[13:32] <tjaalton> not yet anyway ;)
[13:32] <tjaalton> soren: did you look at vmmouse_detect how it does the detection?
[13:34] <tjaalton> soren: if it really is something generic that the server should support (and not just vmware specific), then I think it would be possible to get it in the server itself
[13:35] <tjaalton> although, in the input-hotplug world I think it should be hal that needs to know that the system is a virtual guest
[14:01] <ubotu> New bug: #193667 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "bad performaces on intel x3100" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193667
[15:09] <ubotu> New bug: #193690 in xorg (main) "Xorg + PCI card = INVALID IO ALLOCATION" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193690
[15:11] <ubotu> New bug: #192136 in xulrunner-1.9 (main) "Background image when scrolling" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192136
[15:16] <soren> tjaalton: WEll, it turns out that if the vmmouse driver doesn't detect the vmware stuff, it just passes control on to the regular mouse driver. For this very reason, Fedora has actually defaulted to vmmouse for the last couple of releases.
[15:33] <soren> tjaalton: Do you reckon we could do the same?
[15:47] <ubotu> New bug: #193575 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad periodically disconnects" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193575
[15:55] <soren> bryce: Where did you find the vmmouse_detect code?
[15:57] <bryce> soren, mdz passed it along to me from one of the vmware guys iirc
[16:01] <soren> bryce: Ah.
[16:01] <soren> bryce: You wouldn't happen to have a name and an e-mail for that guy?
[16:56] <bryce> soren: yeah hang on (sorry was in a conf call with amd)
[16:56] <soren> Cool.
[16:56] <soren> While we're sort of on the subject..
[16:57] <soren> 16:16:26 < soren> tjaalton: WEll, it turns out that if the vmmouse driver doesn't detect the vmware stuff, it just passes control on to the regular mouse driver. For this very reason, Fedora has  actually defaulted to vmmouse for the last couple of releases.
[16:57] <soren> 16:33:37 < soren> tjaalton: Do you reckon we could do the same?
[16:57] <bryce> Philip Langdale
[16:57] <bryce> From: Philip Langdale<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:58] <bryce> he's a vmware guy according to mdz, despite the email's url
[16:58] <bryce> wow, odd
[16:59] <tjaalton> soren: sounds nice
[17:02] <tjaalton> duh, now we get bugs about intel chips being too slow
[17:03] <bryce> hehe
[17:07] <bryce> tjaalton: I decided to wait on bringing up the input-hotplug issues since I thought it would be more productive if you were there; last time I talked with cjwatson about it he recommended to stick with the current configuration approach for this release
[17:08] <bryce> tjaalton: but perhaps you and I can talk with colin on the side to work out a better plan
[17:08] <tjaalton> bryce: yeah sure
[17:12] <bryce> soren: so regarding the vmmouse configuration, if the current approach isn't working then I'm definitely open to better ideas
[17:13] <bryce> soren: it would be nice to have the input-hotplug stuff squared away before undertaking any things that would take a large effort; defaulting to vmware sounds like it would be simple (assuming it didn't cause other issues); adding support in the xserver to detect it would be more effort but probably the better solution
[17:14] <tjaalton> but there's no need to touch the server, if the driver has all the nuts and bolts in it
[17:14] <bryce> right...  "xserver and/or the driver"
[17:15] <tjaalton> apparently it just loads another driver (in this case, mouse) if the host system is not a virtual guest
[17:15] <tjaalton> and if we end up using input-hotplug fo hardy, evdev
[17:15] <tjaalton> although maybe there's a better way to do it with i-h
[17:16] <tjaalton> hmm I'll try it on my laptop
[17:16] <bryce> I wonder if debian has looked at this already?
[17:16] <tjaalton> doesn't look like it
[17:17] <bryce> ok, well sounds like defaulting to vmmouse is a decent solution.   It'd be interesting to hear debian's opinion
[17:17] <tjaalton> of course
[17:19] <bryce> Intrepid Ibex.  mm
[17:26] <ubotu> New bug: #193726 in xorg-server (main) "package xserver-xorg-core 2:1.4.1~git20080131-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: falha em buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1)rsa" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193726
[17:29] <tjaalton> yep, wonder what the nickname will be.. intrepid is too long so maybe just ibex
[17:29] <tjaalton> vmmouse works fine on my laptop
[17:30] <tjaalton> hmm actually it doesn't even use it
[17:31] <tjaalton> "the core pointer device wasn't specified in explicitly in the layout. using the default mouse configuration". right.
[17:51] <tjaalton> soren: so, the current code in dexconf has no meaning since it doesn't write a ServerLayout section anymore
[17:52] <tjaalton> the server should default to vmmouse if we want to use it
[18:03] <jcristau> i think if it finds a device with Option CorePointer, it uses that as the mouse device
[18:25] <tjaalton> jcristau: yep, probably so
[18:26] <tjaalton> changing evdev -> vmmouse from the example fdi-file worked, but now all mouse clicks are doubled
[18:26] <tjaalton> so i-h doesn't like "mouse"
[18:27] <tjaalton> but I guess that was common knowledge
[18:50] <jcristau> tjaalton: pretty much, because then you get the events both from /dev/input/mouseN and /dev/input/mice
[18:50] <jcristau> or something like that
[18:50] <jcristau> which sucks
[19:41] <tjaalton> yep, even the movement is doubled :)
[19:43] <bryce> fun
[19:43] <tjaalton> and for some reason, i-h on my laptop is party broken, "up" generates "printscr"
[19:44] <tjaalton> my desktop works fine, same config
[19:44]  * bryce delves back into xrandr gui work
[19:44] <jcristau> tjaalton: that's a xkbmodel mismatch between evdev and something else afaik
[19:45] <tjaalton> jcristau: normally I would agree, but the gnome kb-layout capplet seems to show correct values (=evdev layout)
[19:46] <jcristau> what about setxkbmap -print?
[19:46] <tjaalton> or is it perhaps something else then.. need to investigate later
[19:46]  * jcristau doesn't trust gnome
[19:46] <tjaalton> hehe
[19:46] <tjaalton> Heroes first :)
[20:21] <tjaalton> jcristau: ok, here's the diff:
[20:21] <tjaalton> --- setxkbmap-normal	2008-02-20 22:15:02.000000000 +0200
[20:21] <tjaalton> +++ setxkbmap-ih	2008-02-20 22:17:47.000000000 +0200
[20:21] <tjaalton> @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
[20:21] <tjaalton>  xkb_keymap {
[20:21] <tjaalton> -	xkb_keycodes  { include "xfree86+aliases(qwerty)"	};
[20:21] <tjaalton> +	xkb_keycodes  { include "evdev+aliases(qwerty)"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton>  	xkb_types     { include "complete"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton>  	xkb_compat    { include "complete"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton> -	xkb_symbols   { include "pc+fi(kotoistus)+level3(ralt_switch)"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton> -	xkb_geometry  { include "pc(pc105)"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton> +	xkb_symbols   { include "pc+fi(kotoistus)+inet(evdev)+level3(ralt_switch)"	};
[20:22] <tjaalton> +	xkb_geometry  { include "pc(pc104)"	};
[20:23] <tjaalton> geometry is different
[20:54] <ubotu> New bug: #193793 in mesa (main) "[hardy] X crashes on r300 during f-spot slideshow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193793
[21:11] <ubotu> New bug: #193800 in xdm (universe) "outdated Depends dependency relationships" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193800
[21:53] <bryce> seb128: I've roughed out a todo list for the xrandr gui work - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/DisplayConfig
[21:54] <bryce> seb128: when you get a chance please take a look and give me your feedback
[21:56] <seb128> bryce: ok
[22:07] <seb128> bryce: looks good to me
[22:08] <seb128> bryce: I can look at the gtk and gnome* fedora patches tomorrow and give you my opinion on them if that works for you
[22:08] <bryce> ok
[22:08] <seb128> bryce: is that something we still want for hardy?
[22:08] <bryce> yes
[22:09] <seb128> ok, will look at that tomorrow then
[22:09] <bryce> the gtk patch adds certain new xrandr 1.2 functionality the other code requires
[22:09] <seb128> it's getting late now and I don't feel like starting on that now ;-)
[22:09] <bryce> seb128: sure, but first a couple questions...
[22:09] <seb128> sure
[22:09] <seb128> questions are fine
[22:09] <seb128> I just don't want to start reading code changes ;-)
[22:09] <bryce> seb128: should I go ahead and set up a bzr repo for us and stick this in it for us to work on?
[22:10] <seb128> do you think the level of change is important enough to justify a bzr?
[22:10] <bryce> seb128: oh, hmm that's my only question :-)
[22:11] <bryce> well, it seems they don't respond swiftly so if we have patches it may take some time to get them accepted, so it may be easier to manage them in a vcs
[22:11] <bryce> seb128: I assume we'll need to do some work on the code in order to make it fit and look proper
[22:14] <bryce> well, we could wait and decide tomorrow if you'd prefer?
[22:17] <seb128> sorry was busy with other things
[22:18] <seb128> well
[22:18] <seb128> if we do take the redhat patches and only small bug fixing there, which I expect will be the case for gtk, gnome-desktop, gnome-settings-daemon I'm not convinced bzr will be useful
[22:19] <seb128> if we need to write code, which will likely be the case for gnome-control-center I think that's useful
[22:19] <bryce> ok, yes that's what I suspect to be the case
[22:19] <bryce> gnome-desktop may also require some additional coding; most of the xrandr logic is implemented there
[22:20] <bryce> however I've not looked at it deeply enough yet
[22:20] <bryce> but for now, I could create a branch for gnome-control-center?
[22:21] <seb128> sure
[22:21] <bryce> ok cool
[22:21] <seb128> do you want this one to be used for packaging and everything?
[22:22] <seb128> or only to hack on that and we can merge with the packaging branch on updates, etc?
[22:22] <bryce> I was thinking just for hacking on, to assist in producing patches
[22:22] <bryce> right, the latter
[22:24] <seb128> sounds good to me
[22:24] <seb128> in which case feel free to set bzr for other things if you need too
[22:24] <bryce> ok great
[22:24] <seb128> that should not impact on normal desktop updates
[22:24] <seb128> we can merge changes from the hack bzr to the package one when we want
[22:25] <bryce> yup
[22:25] <seb128> and keep on doing normal updates in the meantime
[22:25] <seb128> cool
[22:25] <seb128> thanks
[22:25] <bryce> great, thanks
[23:44] <jcristau> tjaalton: i think the difference in xkb_symbols is what matters here


[07:31] <lissyx> bandali, arm64 debug symbols are on launchpad :)
[07:31] <lissyx> bandali, we might need a version bump + rebuild of gnome-3-38-2004-sdk as well to get the arm64 symbols ?
[07:48] <lissyx> bandali, (since the last build of it for arm64 is from april and we have not collected its symbols and it's not available on launchpad library anymore)
[08:12] <lissyx> bandali, ok on my side it's all green and merged
[13:19] <lissyx> seb128, i wont be able to make it today
[13:20] <seb128> lissyx, ack, I don't have enough time for firefox things anyway to have more to contribute that things we discuss on this channel usually
[13:55] <lissyx> bandali, and if we have debug symbols on arm64 for core22 we would need a rebuild of gnome-42-2204-sdk as well ?
[14:15] <seb128> lissyx, bandali, Ken is out until Friday but I will talk to him about doing a rebuild once he's back
[14:16] <lissyx> great
[14:43] <KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 3defb5c Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series Avoid-blocking-in-glGetQueryObjecti64v-for-direct-scanout.patch clutter-frame-clock-Avoid-rapidly-toggling-dynamic-max-re.patch * Fixes for stuttering * https://deb.li/3CQ4z
[14:43] <KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master c732c56 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/debian/Support-Dynamic-triple-double-buffering.patch * Update Support-Dynamic-triple-double-buffering.patch * https://deb.li/ZBBh
[14:43] <KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 1cbffee Jeremy Bicha debian/changelog * releasing package mutter version 44.2-2 * https://deb.li/snyR
[14:43] <KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 8058ba5 Jeremy Bicha debian/ (5 files in 3 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/44.2-2' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/36rDv
[14:43] <KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 1b306ae Jeremy Bicha debian/changelog * releasing package mutter version 44.2-2ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/xn6h
[14:44] <GunnarHj> Hi mdeslaur, would it be possible to give me access to bug #2024182? I'm curious about what the problem was.
[14:47] <mdeslaur> GunnarHj: sure
[14:48] <mdeslaur> actually, I just made it public
[14:48] <GunnarHj> mdeslaur: thanks!
[14:51] <GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Hmm.. I'm glad we have your security folks around. :) Are you about to fix it in mantic too? Pls note that we made very recent changes there.
[14:51] <mdeslaur> sure, I'm looking at mantic now
[14:52] <GunnarHj> Great!
[14:53] <mdeslaur> GunnarHj: I won't be able to update it on salsa though, is that an issue?
[14:53] <GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Nah, I can do that once you have uploaded.
[14:54] <mdeslaur> GunnarHj: cool
[16:55] <mdeslaur> eww, what happened to fonts in lunar? they are all being rendered super thin
[16:58] <mdeslaur> GunnarHj: accountsservice uploaded to mantic
[17:08] <GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Thanks! I'll take a look and update the repo.
[17:34] <jbicha> mdeslaur: that could be the new Ubuntu font https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-font-update-available-for-testing/34676
[17:35] <jbicha> there is a new source package, fonts-ubuntu-classic in the mantic new queue for people who prefer the previous version
[17:37] <mdeslaur> I can't believe some folks like the new version
[19:24] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-freon signed tags 35a6066 Matteo F. Vescovi upstream/52+dfsg * Upstream version 52+dfsg * https://deb.li/buAR


[05:59] <ricardo> Hello? any1?
[05:59] <Atharva> ricardo : Whats the problem ?
[06:02] <ricardo> hi atharva
[06:02] <ricardo> the problem is>
[06:02] <ricardo> i am trying to install my intel graphics drive
[06:02] <ricardo> r
[06:03] <ricardo> but i have read several sites but since i am a beginner not very able to compile or do all that stuffs that are required
[06:03] <ricardo> i dont even know how to compile or so :(
[06:04] <Atharva> go to -> System -> Administration -> Additional Drivers
[06:04] <ricardo> let me check
[06:05] <ricardo> done
[06:05] <ricardo> and it lists only 1 driver (my Wireless card)
[06:06] <ricardo> so far i have followed this>
[06:06] <Atharva> Have you enabled it ?
[06:06] <ricardo> yeap it is enabled
[06:07] <ricardo> but that one iw working fine, what i am trying to get is the intel graphics one
[06:07] <ricardo> not the wireless
[06:07] <ricardo> http://intellinuxgraphics.org/build.html
[06:07] <ricardo> that is what i have tried to follow
[06:08] <ricardo> when i try to do my ./autogen.sh for my card it says: dri2proto required.
[06:08] <Atharva> Tell me one thing what do you want on graphics....
[06:08] <ricardo> i need to get my HDMI port working fine, i cannot get the audio tru hdmi or the appropiate screen resolution once connected to my TV
[06:10] <ricardo> the driver description says i required the driver installed for hdmi audio/video working properly, but apparently i need tocompile since i cannot fine an specific package for ubuntu :(
[06:12] <ricardo> and also i want to know if installing the driver i can get HD playback to work properlysince i get laggy playback only :(
[06:13] <ricardo> (in win7 it works fine. but in ubuntu not working fine :(
[06:13] <Atharva> Actually I have never tried this before...
[06:13] <Atharva> sry cant help ....
[06:14] <ricardo> dont worry man
[07:13] <txadm> May I ask for some help setting up ubuntu as an http/ftp server?
[07:15] <urlin2u> txadm, you can ask that at #ubuntu more people on there. :D
[07:15] <txadm> Ah, as I asked on here someone replied on #ubuntu, thank you so much! :)
[10:50] <henry_> Can anybody help me?  i have just installed the latest Ubuntu and want to use my adaptec aha 2940 scsi card.  How do I do this?
[10:57] <haqking> henry_: hi, is that an old 50 pin scsi ?
[10:59] <henry_> Yes .  Not sure of the date but adaptec do provide Vista drivers.  I am trying to use my Epson gt30000 scanner which is vital to me and I would prefer not to have to use windows in a virtual machine.
[11:01] <haqking> yes i see, i think there is a few issues with it but a modprobe shoulod yield some results, wait one sec just having a quick look around
[11:02] <henry_> Oh by the way .... thanks for being here!
[11:03] <haqking> no problem ;-)
[11:04] <haqking> i am pretty sure you will need to custom build your kernel with that module see here http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man4/ahc.4.html
[11:04] <haqking> it is for old version of ubunut but i think the aicxxx is being replaced
[11:05] <haqking> sorry but dont think i can be of much more help than that, someone with direct experience of that card i thinkn would need to chime in, have you posted on the forum ?
[11:09] <Sidewinder1> henry_, Someone here: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=332   may be able to give specific instructions for that card. It'll take longer, but you'll get more exposure, over time.
[11:11] <henry_> Thanks for the link.  Had a look and that is all way beyond my abilities!
[11:11] <haqking> best bet it is to post in the forum with link above ^ and see if anyone else has experience with that card
[11:11] <haqking> best of luck
[11:12] <Sidewinder1> henry_, You could do a search for that card; in lieu of that, just start a new thread.
[11:13] <henry_> Thanks both I will wander over to the forum and see what can be done.  All a shame as I am desperate to become Microsoft free and it is things like this that stop me!
[11:14] <Sidewinder1> henry_, It can be frustrating at times, but if you patiently persevere, you'll be rewarded, I'm sure. :-)
[11:17] <haqking> even if you used MS in a virtual machine, it still needs to be seen in your Host to be virtualised in the guest
[11:21] <henry_> Oh blow! another good Idea squashed
[11:24] <haqking> may a i suggest a scsi to USB adapter instead http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html
[11:24] <haqking> any need to use your SCSI card per se, its only for the scanner right ?
[11:31] <henry_> Yes just for the scanner.  Been thinking about an adapter they seem expensive at about £60 second hand on ebay especially when I have a card sitting in the machine.  Do these adapters all work OK with Ubuntu?
[11:40] <haqking> just looking around for a cheaper model
[11:40] <haqking> seems cheap in the USA, discontinued alot over here in the UK
[11:42] <haqking> yeah if you cant help in the forum then a adapter might be your only option im afraid
[11:42] <haqking> *get help
[12:01] <henry_> I think I will watch this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1812231&highlight=adaptec+2940)....seems I am not the only one.  The other thing about the adapters is they appear to be slow at 480 Mbi v 1280 Mbit for the scsi
[12:07] <haqking> best of luck ;-)
[12:07] <haqking> sorry couldnt be of more help on that one
[13:01] <Kent> Hey, anyone know of a way that I can automatically bring a particular nautilus window to the front?
[13:01] <Kent> Sometimes I have so many windows open that I suddenly want to get back to my nautilus window that's set up how I like it
[13:02] <Kent> Can't find a keyboard shortcut for it
[13:07] <Kent> hm
[13:07] <Kent> hever mind
[13:07] <Kent> I found something
[13:11] <M0hi> particular window?
[14:15] <vohe> hello, can i get information about "usable" programs here?
[14:17] <vohe> i look for a calendar program, that can use google-calendar (online, not downloaded ics) AND that is able to print in different ways. (e.g. filofax pages)
[14:18] <holstein> vohe: i have often wished google would just do that :/
[14:20] <vohe> holstein: I wish that too. Google could do that, but only in english locals i need that in german! and...
[14:21] <vohe> under windows i found "sunbird" that can do some "extra" print formats. There i have to use the add on fgprinters.
[14:21] <holstein> i cant imagine sunbird *not* supporting Gcal
[14:21] <holstein> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/
[14:21] <vohe> but sunbird is out of development and fgprinters only work with old versions...
[14:21] <holstein> oh... hehe :)
[14:21] <vohe> so... what?
[14:22] <holstein> you already tried it...
[14:22] <vohe> is there any program under ubuntu that can print more than a "month" preview of the calendar files?
[14:23] <holstein> is lightning dead? http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/ ?
[14:23] <vohe> i tried, evolution, thunderbird...
[14:23] <holstein> vohe: i mean, its linux, and its all open, so all of them do whatever you want to make them do... in theory
[14:23] <vohe> holstein: yes, in case of print lists - it is dead!
[14:23] <holstein> as for in practice, we would just have to try them, and see
[14:57] <J4r3d> Hello
[14:58] <J4r3d> Is anyone here?
[14:58] <holstein> sure
[14:58] <holstein> we're all here :)
[14:58] <holstein> J4r3d: if you would, take a moment and review the /topic
[14:59] <holstein> just type /topic in whenever you join an official support channel
[14:59] <holstein> some of them are more strict than others
[14:59] <J4r3d> Ah ok. Thank you I was just about to ask how to do that. :)
[14:59] <holstein> depending on the chat client you are using, you can sometimes see it easier than other times
[15:00] <holstein> i forget what that freenode webchat looks like...
[15:01] <J4r3d> I am getting an error. Insufficient arguments for command. I apologize this is my first venture into any sort of chat.
[15:02] <holstein> J4r3d: no worries
[15:02] <holstein> how did you get here?
[15:02] <holstein> is there a webpage?
[15:02] <holstein> or just searching through freenode?
[15:03] <J4r3d> Yes. I was looking for support on Ubuntu and was directed to this channel. I tried the ubuntu-beginners-team channel but no one was answering.
[15:03] <holstein> J4r3d: but, are you in the web browser?
[15:03] <holstein> at http://webchat.freenode.net/ ??
[15:04] <J4r3d> Yes. I clicked the link for the channel and thus I ended up here
[15:05] <holstein> J4r3d: thats actually good to know
[15:05] <holstein> you dont get the topic that way in the webchat...
[15:05]  * holstein_test is testing
[15:06] <J4r3d> Ah. I was also looking at downloading xchat to use as my client however I was having trouble figuring out how to download and install it with Ubuntu.
[15:06] <holstein> xchat is nice
[15:06] <holstein> J4r3d: you can do that in many ways
[15:06] <holstein> i would suggest trying the software center if you have that
[15:07] <J4r3d> Oh! I forgot about that. Brb. And thank you. :)
[15:07] <holstein> sure
[15:08] <haqking> yes xchat is in software centre or with sudo apt-get install xchat from terminal
[15:09] <J4r3d> Downloading now. Pardon the silly question but what is sudo?
[15:09] <haqking> see here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[15:10] <holstein> !sudo | J4r3d
[15:10] <ubot2`> J4r3d: sudo is a command to run command-line programs with superuser privileges ("root") (also see !cli). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information. For graphical applications see !gksu (GNOME, Xfce), or !kdesudo (KDE). If you're unable to execute commands with sudo see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/fixsudo
[15:10] <haqking> it is for temporary elevating to admin privelege and is preferred method in ubuntu as the root account is disabled by default
[15:12] <J4r3d> Ok. Im not sure I understand but I just finished the download of xchat so Im going to boot that up and be back in just a sec.
[15:13] <haqking> basically when you want to do something of an admin anture to your system you tell it you have the privelege to do to by prefixing the command with sudo
[15:13] <haqking> it will then ask for your password to confirm you really do and checks your account has sudo privelege
[15:13] <haqking> then carries it out
[15:13] <holstein> J4r3d will be back from xchat soon :)
[15:13] <haqking> *admin nature
[15:15] <haqking> welcome back j43rd
[15:16] <haqking> j4r3d even ;-)
[15:16] <j4r3d> Thank you :)
[15:17] <j4r3d> Now I understand how the /topic command works. What did you mean by the root account being disabled by default? Perhaps I should do a bit more reading to understand the technical details beforehand?
[15:18] <holstein> j4r3d: its not working in the webchat though
[15:18] <holstein>  /topic
[15:18] <holstein> which is good to know... i usually suggest that, and i didnt know it didnt work the same there
[15:20] <j4r3d> Ah ok. I put in the command and read up on it. Thank you :).
[15:21] <haqking> root is the superuser in linux, in Ubuntu it is disabled and it is preferred to carry out superuser tasks using sudo
[15:22] <haqking> which is like being root for a short period without logging in as root and without putting your system in too much danger of messing it up as root
[15:22] <j4r3d> Ah ok. That makes sense. Thanks
[15:22] <haqking> read the link posted earlier at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[15:25] <Sidewinder1> j4r3d, Two of my favorite links for learning about ubuntu are: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php And: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=510812 Enjoy! :-)
[15:26] <holstein> so, apparently, /topic just doenst work from the webchat... the topic is at the top of the page all the time though
[15:26] <j4r3d> I peered at it. Its open on my browser for me to look at later. :) I did have a question though. I decided I wanted to try out Ubuntu before completely getting rid of Windows. So I downloaded and installed it with the Wubi installer. Now that Ive play with it a little bit, Id like to use it to completely replace Windows but Im not sure how to go about that. Do I uninstall Ubuntu first and then reinstall with the task of eradicating Windows while i r
[15:26] <j4r3d> einstall? Or is there a way to get rid of Windows and simply boot from Ubuntu?
[15:27] <j4r3d> Thanks Sidewinder1 :) Ill be sure to take a look at those.
[15:27] <Sidewinder1> j4r3d, Please see my links above, especially the psychocats one.
[15:28] <holstein> you can to whatever really... no reason to keep that wubi install in place though
[15:28] <holstein> j4r3d: are you going to wipe windows?
[15:28] <j4r3d> I plan on it yes.
[15:28] <holstein> if you want to dual boot, i would unistall wubi, then install ubuntu
[15:28] <holstein> if you are going to wipe the drive, do whatever you want
[15:29] <holstein> nothing about that wubi will prevent that install from happening
[15:30] <j4r3d> Hmmm. Ok.
[15:30] <Sidewinder1> j4r3d, You might want to install and dual boot for a while until you're completely comfortable with ubuntu. You can always remove Win at a later date.
[15:30] <holstein> yeah, and the only reason i say remove the wubi first is just to clear up the hard drive space, and simplify the process a bit
[15:30] <holstein> you dont *have* to do that first
[15:31] <holstein> if i were you, i would use the wubi for a few more weeks, then install 11.10 :)
[15:31] <Sidewinder1> j4r3d, One important thing if you need to shrink an NTFS/fat32 partition; make sure to defragment it at least twice prior to shrinking.
[15:35] <j4r3d> I think thats actually good advise. I just started using Ubuntu and I think I may have gotten ahead of myself. I will work on becomimg familiar with it before I kill Windows.
[15:36] <holstein> j4r3d: also, break that wubi :)
[15:36] <holstein> before installing, do some things in there
[15:36] <holstein> since you are going to wipe the drive anyways... its better to learn on it
[15:37]  * Sidewinder1 Is not a big fan of WUBI; but I guess it serves it's purpose of allowing win. folks to try ubuntu, within the win os.
[15:37] <holstein> yeah... it helped me transition
[15:39] <Sidewinder1> I never used it (wubi), went straight to dual-boot. But I've seen many questions in #u where wubi is the problem. I think the mistake is that folks try to use it on a long term basis.
[15:40] <holstein> yup.. it was breaking my LAN on that machine somehow... i forget now
[15:45] <j4r3d> I think Ill use Wubi for a couple weeks and then setup a dual boot for windows.
[15:47] <Sidewinder1> Sounds like a plan. :D
[17:35] <spartan-11510> Hi
[17:36] <Sidewinder1> Good Afternoon.
[17:37] <spartan-11510> I need some help for packaging, i'm sorry if my question hav not place here
[17:38] <spartan-11510> I search the minimal option in makefile
[17:39] <Sidewinder1> Are you familiar with this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware?highlight=%28%28CompilingEasyHowTo%29%29
[17:40] <spartan-11510> No i read that and if i've any question i ask you. Thank you very much
[17:41] <Sidewinder1> spartan-11510, I ask only because I'm not real familiar with compiling software. Also if compiling is your goal, you might be better off asking in #ubuntu, rather than a beginners channel.
[17:42] <Sidewinder1> Hope it helped. :-)
[17:42] <spartan-11510> Ok thank you very much ;)
[17:42] <Sidewinder1> You're welcome.
[18:29] <tdn> How do I change system language (menus and the like) to Danish?
[18:32] <urlin2u> tdn, your on which release, in Natty look at language support I believe.
[18:36] <tdn> urlin2u, lucid
[18:36] <tdn> urlin2u, LTS
[18:36] <tdn> urlin2u, I would really like to do it from command line if possible. And for all users.
[18:38] <urlin2u> I haven't used lucid in a long time, and am not really sure to be honest, the #ubuntu channel is a bit busier you might try there as well
[18:39] <tdn> Ok


[01:08] <Bluekuja> Seveas :ping
[01:09] <Seveas> Bluekuja, ?
[01:09] <Bluekuja> hi dennis can i ask you a fast question about irc bots?
[01:09] <Seveas> sure
[01:10] <Bluekuja> i have a irc server and i need a logger bot ,do you know a good software for it?
[01:11] <pygi> Bluekuja: mostly any will do, eggdrop seems like a reasonable choice, too bloated tho :P
[01:11] <Seveas> if you operate the server, then just let the server log
[01:11] <Seveas> otherwise, use a supybot or an eggdrop
[01:11] <Bluekuja> oh perfect
[01:11] <Bluekuja> tnx seveas and pygi
[01:11] <Bluekuja> ;)
[01:11] <Seveas> yeah
[01:12] <Bluekuja> heeh
[01:12] <Seveas> eggdrop sucks anyway
[01:12] <Bluekuja> lol
[02:05] <Bluekuja> goodnight #edubuntu
[04:11] <emmakelley> Hi
[08:25] <alexcamilo> Hello
[08:28] <alexcamilo> I have some questions about edubuntu. Are there polish versions of the various applications/games? and what are the recommended specs for running edubuntu?
[08:29] <alexcamilo> Would a 650mhz intel celeron cpu and 160mb of ram suffice?
[09:12] <pourriture> hello .... was just looking for a distro to install on a testbed and I stumbled across edubuntu ... am VERY interested in hearing success stories
[09:14] <pourriture> I love the idea of an os for kids/education ... when I was 10 I started with apple basic and it was a bit daunting ... what age group does edubuntu have the most "stuff" for?
[09:14] <highvoltage> hi pourriture
[09:15] <highvoltage> i work on the tuxlabs project: http://www.tuxlabs.org.za
[09:15] <highvoltage> we user a highly customised, and a bit more primitive setup, but similar to edubuntu
[09:16] <highvoltage> we run it in 200 schools across south africa at the moment, and it's been great.
[09:17] <pourriture> cool ... am  looking  at that now ... don't have kids myself (yet) but friends and co-workers are always asking me about good computer stuff for their kids
[09:17] <pourriture> more home use ... not terminal server type classroom things
[09:19] <highvoltage> ok. the default edubuntu installation doesn't have massive amount of software for kids.
[09:19] <highvoltage> but if you download software from the ubuntu universe, there's lots of cool stuff.
[09:20] <pourriture> I have installed the debian jr package before ... but it was kind of hit and miss as far as being current
[09:22] <pourriture> and I don't usually use gnome or kde ... so I might have missed some of the finer points .... for my boxen I use a slim fluxbox or svgalib config
[09:22] <pourriture> so the full blown desktop environment is a bit out of my arena
[09:31] <highvoltage> XFCE is really nice.
[11:28] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco
[11:28] <highvoltage> how are things going?
[11:29] <jsgotangco> hey
[11:29] <jsgotangco> i had a bad sprain this morning
[11:33] <highvoltage> ouch. recovered from the fall yet?
[11:35] <jsgotangco> oh i did already
[11:35] <jsgotangco> i just woke up, and i felt a sharp pain
[12:07] <janimo> ogra_ibook: ping
[04:55] <marc_> exit
[06:28] <josh__> hello
[06:30] <mhz> highvoltage, ping
[06:31] <mhz> highvoltage, I could finally boot into ISO in hda8
[06:32] <highvoltage> mhz: pong
[06:32] <highvoltage> yay :)
[06:33] <mhz> highvoltage, do you think this should be wikied in w.u.o or my personal wiki?
[06:34] <highvoltage> mhz: it's just a copy and paste from both :)
[06:34] <mhz> ?
[06:34] <mhz> what you mean?
[06:34] <highvoltage> i mean, you could do it in both.
[06:34] <mhz> oooh
[06:34] <mhz> i c
[06:34] <highvoltage> once you've done it in either, you could just copy and paste it, since it's all moin :)
[06:34] <josh__> hey, i wonder if you could help, can i edit the GRUB from edubuntu?
[06:35] <highvoltage> yep
[06:35] <josh__> because when i rebooted after installing edubuntu the GRUB bootloader didnt give me XP as a option...just ubuntu
[06:35] <highvoltage> press alt+f2, then type sudo "gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst"
[06:35] <mhz> highvoltage, yeah, the diff is I write spanish in my personal one
[06:35] <mhz> ;)
[06:36] <highvoltage> mhz: aaah
[06:36] <highvoltage> mhz: perhaps the ubuntu one then :)
[06:37] <josh__> thanks for that highvoltage
[06:38] <mhz> highvoltage, as I have dapper install iso, I tried it with elive.iso first
[06:38] <mhz> highvoltage, elive ROCKS!!!!!
[06:38] <mhz> highvoltage, its Elive Panel is out of this world!
[06:39] <spacey> whats elive?
[06:39] <highvoltage> hmm... yeah. i don't know what it is either.
[06:39] <mhz> elive is a live/installable distro based on enligthenment
[06:39] <mhz> e16 and e17
[06:39] <spacey> aha
[06:40] <mhz> and i must admit I am entering nirvana here
[06:40] <mhz> it is so spectacular
[06:40] <mhz> very, very stylish and cool
[06:41] <highvoltage> try e17 + gxl :)
[06:43] <mhz> hehehe
[07:54] <bobulator> some of you might like this:
[07:54] <bobulator> http://news.com.com/Ad+watchdog+warns+Microsoft+to+%27Get+the+Facts%27/2100-1016_3-5323672.html?tag=nefd.hed
[09:38] <highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu
[09:39] <juliux> goodnight highvoltage
[09:40] <highvoltage> night juliux!
[10:34] <cbx33> hey everyone :D
[10:34] <cbx33> ogra_ibook, you around?
[10:36] <cbx33> hey Bluekuja
[10:37] <Bluekuja> hey cbx33 :)
[10:37] <Bluekuja> this server is lagging
[10:37] <Bluekuja> im trying to identify
[10:37] <cbx33> hehe
[10:37] <Bluekuja> ok done
[10:37] <cbx33> excellent
[10:37] <Bluekuja> eheh
[10:37] <cbx33> how've you been
[10:38] <cbx33> Bluekuja, you used bzr?
[10:38] <Bluekuja> i was initially in launchpad
[10:38] <Bluekuja> then im putting up an irc server
[10:38] <Bluekuja> ^^
[10:38] <cbx33> ah....yeh you said the other day
[10:38] <Bluekuja> yep^^
[10:38] <cbx33> I'm trying to checkout one of ogra's bzr archives
[10:38] <cbx33> but it still doesnt work
[10:39] <Bluekuja> nope i didnt use before bzre
[10:39] <Bluekuja> *bzr
[10:39] <cbx33> ah ok
[10:39] <cbx33> Bluekuja, you used REVU before?
[10:39] <Bluekuja> nope
[10:39] <cbx33> heheh
[10:39] <cbx33> ok
[10:39] <cbx33> :p
[10:40] <Bluekuja> thats motu software
[10:40] <Bluekuja> ^^
[10:40] <cbx33> i know
[10:40] <Bluekuja> oliver is an expert
[10:40] <Bluekuja> so just wait me
[10:40] <Bluekuja> *him
[10:40] <Bluekuja> but its away
[10:41] <Bluekuja> tomorrow he will be here for sure
[10:42] <cbx33> ahhh
[10:42] <cbx33> I have many questions for him :p