[00:02] <Myrtti> good night kids
[00:03] <Pici> byebye
[01:20] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[01:20] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[01:20] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[03:57] <wobblywu> hi
[04:00] <Seeker`> hi
[04:00] <Seeker`> wobblywu: how can we help you?
[04:00] <wobblywu> I was wondering a thing or two about the way mneptok just handled a situation in ubuntu-offtopic
[04:00] <wobblywu> more specifically, I was wondering if that was a whim of mneptok or the default way of handling such situations these days
[04:01] <wobblywu> it seemed overly hostile
[04:01] <wobblywu> I hate to be a tattletale, but mneptok isn't responding to me in either offtopic or PM :)
[04:02] <Seeker`> how long ago?
[04:02] <wobblywu> few minutes, one sec
[04:02] <wobblywu> between 34 and 44 minutes of the previous hour (currently 01 of the new hour)
[04:03] <wobblywu> 3:34-3:44 (am) GMT
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: Looks like a remove would be the appropriate action there, with an !o4o > and !coc > on rejoin.
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> (or in /msg)
[04:04] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, a remove?
[04:04] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, what for?
[04:04] <Seeker`> I dont think he overreacted
[04:04] <Seeker`> wobblywu: He posted some pretty unsuitable content
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: The link.
[04:05] <wobblywu> he pasted a url he was not aware was not allowed
[04:05] <wobblywu> it's quite common to paste urls like that in -offtopic channels
[04:05] <wobblywu> we don't quite appreciate it, but he didn't know that at the time (being new, as he said)
[04:05] <Seeker`> that doesn't make it right
[04:05] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: /msg ubotu o4o is in the channel topic.  Not reading the topic is not an excuse for being completely inappropriate.
[04:05] <wobblywu> msg ubotu o4o is in the topic without context
[04:06] <wobblywu> most newcomers won't know what o4o stands for
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> ubotu tells them.....
[04:06] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about tells them..... - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[04:06] <wobblywu> and surely you don't expect newcomers to click and type everything said in the topic?
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> remove says "that's not welcome here, for reals" - if it's done again a ban can be expected.
[04:06] <wobblywu> i can entirely understand someone reading the topic and not typing /msg ubotu o4o. I probably wouldn't either.
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> Yes, actually we do.
[04:07] <wobblywu> that's quite unreasonable
[04:07] <wobblywu> surely the preferred method of handling is not an immediate removal of newcomers upon rule breaking? he was not aware of the rule, I made the rule clear to him in jest
[04:07] <tonyyarusso> Or, alternatively, ASK what the guidelines are when entering, especially if you plan on posting something that any reasonably person would realize was offensive.
[04:07] <wobblywu> mneptok felt it was necessary to repeat it was not allowed in a more hostile way
[04:07] <tonyyarusso> depends on the rule.
[04:08] <tonyyarusso> Mild things can be more like "hey dude, uncool", but that was pretty far over the line of appropriateness.
[04:08] <wobblywu> simply put, had mneptok not taken part of the situation the user would now still be in the channel but would know not to paste those links in there
[04:08] <wobblywu> of/in
[04:08] <Seeker`> wobblywu: In response to your original point, it is a pretty standard way of dealing with a situation like that, and I reckon that some people might have actually banned him straight away
[04:08] <wobblywu> Seeker`, which is quite unreasonable
[04:09] <wobblywu> i'm sure an official complaint from me in here won't do any good, but if it does, may it be noted :)
[04:09] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: actually, remove is pretty standard freenode-wide practice.  Specifics vary, of course, but from the context here that looks like it would be pretty in line with the network recommendations.
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> Of course, there are always other networks if you'd like an environment more open to things like that.
[04:10] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, I really doubt that, to be honest
[04:10] <wobblywu> considering we're talking about the offtopic channel here
[04:10] <wobblywu> an immediate removal would be nothing less than expected in #ubuntu, but this is supposed to be the more laidback channel
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntu-offtopic is not #defocus.  We have standards, and users are expected to a) find out what they are, b) follow them, c) help ensure others do the same.
[04:11] <wobblywu> I know what they are, I followed them, and I made clear to the user what they were
[04:11] <wobblywu> the user found out that way, then decided to follow them
[04:11] <wobblywu> mneptok came in, threatened the user, the user parted
[04:12] <wobblywu> please don't think this is just the specific user i'm complaining about
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> I don't see a threat.
[04:12] <wobblywu> it's rather a more often seen way of handling by ops that are hardly ever active in the main channel to begin with
[04:12] <wobblywu> I consider "Froto: and i would have banned you rather than merely warning you." a subtle threat, although one could argue otherwise
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> What relevance does which channels users spend most of their time in have?
[04:13] <wobblywu> I also hope mneptok doesn't think i'm trying to single him out, as this isn't that big a deal in itself
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> eh, that's more of an explanation than a threat.
[04:13] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, quite a lot of relevance really
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> not that I see
[04:13] <wobblywu> the more time one spends in a channel, the more acquainted one will be with the flow of the channel
[04:14] <tonyyarusso> I'm sure everyone is plenty acquanted with #ubuntu...
[04:14] <wobblywu> i'm using flow in lack of a better word :)
[04:14] <wobblywu> i'm referring to #ubuntu-offtopic here, of course
[04:15] <tonyyarusso> Well he seems to have been talking in there off and on (probably between calls) for the last 6 hours today.
[04:15] <Seeker`> all of the ops here have a pretty similar idea of what is sensible behaviour in an #ubuntu channel, no matter what channels they spend time it
[04:16] <Seeker`> if someone posted that in a channel I was an op in, I would have at least removed them
[04:16] <wobblywu> Seeker`, my point here is that #ubuntu-offtopic does obviously require a different approach than most other #ubuntu channels
[04:16] <Seeker`> it may do, but there is a still a limit, and when someone goes over that limit, action is taken
[04:16] <wobblywu> i'd hate to get into a quarrel regarding the strict following of !o4o again, as I already did that yesterday
[04:17] <tonyyarusso> Yes, but anything looser than this approach makes the channel terrible.  We know from experience.
[04:17] <wobblywu> experience is a lousy counselor
[04:17] <wobblywu> (I know that from experience)
[04:18] <tonyyarusso> If you'd prefer a different approach, perhaps #defocus would better fit what you're looking for in an offtopic channel.  We don't want to ever have something like that in Ubuntu namespace, however, so that isn't going to happen.
[04:19] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, what are you implying here?
[04:19] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: I'm not implying - I'm stating.
[04:19] <wobblywu> can't one do both? :P
[04:20] <wobblywu> i'm not saying we should let -offtopic go down the drain, nor am I saying links like that are ever appropriate for -offtopic
[04:20] <wobblywu> i'm saying I find it overly hostile in the way certain ops tend to react on users (especially new users) in -offtopic (not talking about any other ubuntu channel)
[04:21] <wobblywu> and my grammar is horrible tonight
[04:21] <tonyyarusso> Please present a counterproposal then, rather than just expressing distaste for the current state of affairs.  (Chances are it's been tried, unsuccessfully.)
[04:21] <wobblywu> let's just call it stream of consciousness writing, so I can get away with it
[04:21] <wobblywu> i've presented a counterproposal yesterday
[04:21] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, had mneptok not responded at all, I wouldn't be in here right now
[04:22] <wobblywu> so, there's my counterproposal
[04:22] <tonyyarusso> We've already covered that no response is unacceptable as an alternative.
[04:22] <wobblywu> how is that no response?
[04:22] <wobblywu> I responded to the user
[04:22] <wobblywu> had mneptok given my response I wouldn't be here either
[04:23] <wobblywu> no need to tell the users they'll be banned next time they do it, just tell them it's not appreciated in the channel
[04:23] <wobblywu> they're either newcomers or regulars, newcomers aren't aware of the rules and should be told the rules without force, and regulars already know the rules so should be dealt with accordingly
[04:23] <Seeker`> wobblywu: but if they will be banned next time they do it, why hide it from them?
[04:24] <Seeker`> wobblywu: how do you tell the difference between a newcomer and a regular with a different nickname?
[04:24] <wobblywu> Seeker`, because they would have had a chance of redeeming themselves rationally, without losing their face or feeling threatened
[04:24] <Seeker`> but then they will be shocked that they are banned, and demand that they be given a warning first
[04:24] <wobblywu> Seeker`, the difference is generally told by IP, identd, nickname, behaviour
[04:24] <wobblywu> Seeker`, oh but I do think that
[04:24] <wobblywu> textual warning first, kick second, kickban third
[04:25] <wobblywu> one should be lenient on new users, some sort of three strikes before the rules count thing
[04:25] <Seeker`> identd and nickname are both easily changed
[04:25] <tonyyarusso> s/kick/remove/
[04:25] <wobblywu> the combination of IP, identd, nickname and behaviour rarely changes :)
[04:25] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, right
[04:25] <wobblywu> silly freenodians, remove ;P
[04:25] <Seeker`> there are currently at least 5 different IPs that I could connect from at the moment, none of which are in any way related to each other
[04:26] <wobblywu> Seeker`, were you to come in on 5 different IPs pasting rickroll youtube links each time, it'd be somewhat of a hint
[04:26] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: You have some point there, but it's _really_ hard to keep track of how new every user is when you have between 100 and 1700 users in each channel, and are in 20-80 channels.
[04:26]  * Hobbsee waves to wobblywu
[04:26] <tonyyarusso> Wish I had those skillz, but I couldn't even remember to change the backup tape on Thursday ... :(
[04:27] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, I asked the user whether he was new, he said yes. I pointed out the CoC to the user, and told the user the content was not appropriate for the channel. The user complied.
[04:27] <Seeker`> wobblywu: but if I were to come back each time and break slightly different rules...?
[04:27] <wobblywu> Seeker`, then they would need to find a better way of entertaining themselves
[04:27] <Seeker`> wobblywu: My point is that people who "enjoy" trolling do use the "i'm new" excuse, and it is possible to appear the same as a new user
[04:28] <wobblywu> Seeker`, are you really suggesting we should just remove on every offense in case they're secret clones?
[04:28] <tonyyarusso> wobblywu: It might have been more "discrete" had mneptok put the warning in a PM, but Seeker` has a point about them needing to be aware of the consequences, so they don't complain about them when they come on an "I didn't know" basis.
[04:28] <wobblywu> hi Hobbsee :)
[04:28] <wobblywu> tonyyarusso, had the warning been in PM it would've been entirely different as well
[04:28] <tonyyarusso> However, that's getting into pretty minor points, and not really all that important in the grand scheme of things.
[04:28] <Seeker`> no, i'm suggesting that the response should be appropriate to the "infringement" of the rules
[04:28] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: btw, there was no indication that the experiment had continued indefintely.
[04:28] <wobblywu> in the grand scheme of things this user left offended, where he wasn't before mneptok meddled
[04:28] <wobblywu> Hobbsee, I know :)
[04:29] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: only the ops there knew about the proposed change
[04:29] <wobblywu> Hobbsee, merely trying to figure out where we stand right now (before any experiment)
[04:29] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: you're effectively blaming them for stuff they didnt' know about, which isn't overly helpful.
[04:29] <wobblywu> Hobbsee, oh definitely not, i'm wondering whether there would not have been a better method in general
[04:29]  * elky_work remembers sayign something about unplanned changes
[04:29] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: probably, and i'd expect so, but please, not around release.
[04:29]  * elky_work notes that this is proof of her concern
[04:30] <wobblywu> telling off a user, new or not, is rarely the best method (unless it's a final warning)
[04:30] <wobblywu> in the main channel, that is
[04:30] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: the attention will be on #ubuntu, not on -offtopic
[04:30] <wobblywu> Hobbsee, oh release _is_ coming up, isn't it? :]
[04:30] <wobblywu> 2 days in the cool timezones
[04:30] <Hobbsee> so making mass changes in there right now probably isn't appropriate
[04:30] <Hobbsee> yeah.  and may envy be significantly changed before it does!
[04:31] <wobblywu> Hobbsee, the linux kernel too please!
[04:31] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: are you involved in the release this time?
[04:31] <wobblywu> the bug that made me drop gutsy is still in there ;(
[04:31] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: that being said, a proposed list of changes to the irc mailing list, so everyone's on the same page, and so people can all be aware, and discuss the proposed changes, would be a good idea.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: er, yes.  a bit.
[04:31] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: I can never keep track of which release/people/roles are which.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:31]  * Seeker` goes to bed, it being 4:30 am in sensible time zones
[04:31]  * Hobbsee has many hats.
[04:31] <wobblywu> ohh, a new forum alongside a new release
[04:32]  * tonyyarusso nicknames Hobbsee Bartholomew
[04:32] <wobblywu> already have a thing to nitpick, links aren't obvious anymore ;(
[04:32] <tonyyarusso> (sp?)
[04:32] <wobblywu> bartholomew I believe, so it seems right
[04:33] <wobblywu> anyway, Hobbsee, you make a fair point
[04:33] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: :)
[04:33] <wobblywu> I do hope this doesn't become a regular thing for me though, I just left two other IRC networks because I was getting too involved :P
[04:34] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: obviously, it's very important for all irc ops to actually know about the proposed changes, and to have a say in them.
[04:34] <wobblywu> but I do hope some action is taken soon regarding this issue, even if it's just a discussion leading to a "we won't change anything" outcome
[04:34] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: deal with it a few days after release, please.
[04:34] <wobblywu> will do
[04:34] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: everyone's watching #ubuntu and such - that's the priority
[04:34] <elky_work> wobblywu, a time span greater than 40hrs would be good kthx
[04:34] <wobblywu> elky_work, :P
[04:34] <wobblywu> I really wasn't responding because of the discussion of yesterday, though
[04:35] <wobblywu> I didn't expect that to have gone out priority mail to all the ops :P
[04:35] <wobblywu> I just thought it was a valid point to make, as this specific issue allowed for more subtleties... and I was out of Frasier episodes to watch, anyway
[04:35] <wobblywu> but alright, i'm all nagged out for a day
[04:36] <tonyyarusso> hehe, okay :)
[04:36] <elky_work> we aren't something to use for entertainment. it's a waste of our time
[04:36] <wobblywu> thanks Seeker`, tonyyarusso, (Hobbsee, elky_work)
[04:36] <wobblywu> elky_work, oh do catch some jest ;P
[04:36] <Hobbsee> wobblywu: indeed.
[04:36] <Hobbsee> cya
[04:37] <elky_work> wobblywu, it's so fun to be used for entertainment. makes us feel so great and makes it so freaking easy to keep up with everything else going on. yes. so funny. ever so funny. ha. ha.
[05:41] <zenwhen> I think the guy was joking...
[06:04] <elky_work> zenwhen, that does not make either funny or appropriate. i can joke about lots of nasty and inappropriate things.
[06:05] <elky_work> the 'joke' part does not negate the 'nasty' or the 'inappropriate' parts
[08:10] <Hobbsee> a thought occurs to me.
[08:11] <Hobbsee> i think i've found the new recruit ground
[08:12] <jussio1> Hobbsee: pray tell...
[08:13] <Hobbsee> jussio1: it's here
[08:13] <Hobbsee> i really don't think we should keep logging this channel
[08:16] <jussio1> hrmmm
[08:19] <Hobbsee>  ah well.  if they want to take the people who can't behave in our channels, then all power to them - as long as they don't decide to attack the main channels
[08:46] <Myrtti> I think the channel should be logged, but the logs should be made public after each irc/cc council meet, or per request
[08:48] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: yeah, mass delayed logs, etc
[08:50] <jussi01> Hobbsee: so its now official. :/
[08:51] <Hobbsee> jussi01: indeed.
[08:51] <Hobbsee> jussi01: echan,btw
[08:51] <jussi01> Hobbsee: what?
[08:51] <Hobbsee> jussi01: wrong channel?
[08:51] <jussi01> oh yeah
[09:11] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: can we get the alternate (or both) contacts of #kubuntu changed to be the IRC council please?
[09:11] <Hobbsee> tia.
[09:49] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: how come?
[09:54] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: because i'm the current contact, and im' asking you to?
[09:54] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: also because i'm stepping down in kubuntuland.
[09:54] <PriceChild> no you're the current alternate
[09:54] <PriceChild> who is haggai?
[09:55] <rodserling> happy earth day, ops
[09:55] <jpatrick> PriceChild: old, old Kubuntu dev from _years_ ago
[09:58] <PriceChild> do anything these days?
[09:58] <PriceChild> he is online atm?
[09:59] <jpatrick> PriceChild: he was with Riddell at the start of Kubuntu and kinda went off after Hoary (by what I've read), doesn't do anything from what I've seen my time on the time
[10:00] <jpatrick> team* - last time
[10:01] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: a very old kubuntu guy - and that's what i meant
[10:01] <Hobbsee> not seen him active in ages
[10:01] <PriceChild> not responding to PMs?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> nope
[10:02] <jpatrick> he's just MIA, or just in in action anymore
[10:03] <jpatrick> not in*
[10:05]  * jpatrick watches hzu in #u
[11:41] <ikonia> so board of !hardy in #ubuntu....roll on 24th
[11:52] <Hobbsee> that envy factoid needs updating, too
[11:53] <PriceChild> !hardy
[11:53] <ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 24, 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[11:53] <Seeker`> I cant wait for II
[11:53] <PriceChild> !no hardy is <reply> 9Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 24, 2008 - For more info, see:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[11:53] <ubotu> I'll remember that PriceChild
[11:54] <PriceChild> grr
[11:54] <Seeker`> bored of hardy already :P
[11:54] <PriceChild> !no hardy is <reply> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 24, 2008 - For more info, see:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Support in #ubuntu+1 - Come join the #ubuntu-release-party now!
[11:54] <ubotu> I'll remember that PriceChild
[11:59] <ikonia> Seeker`: bored of !hardy
[11:59] <ikonia> there's another one now
[11:59] <ikonia> where are my razord blades.......
[12:12] <elkbuntu> ikonia, because you have a beard?
[12:12] <elkbuntu> ikonia, btw did you get that stuff i asked you for?
[12:12] <nalioth> why would he need a razor for his bear ?
[12:13] <ikonia> my beard is gone
[12:13] <ikonia> I wanted to slit my throat
[12:13] <ikonia> elkbuntu: check your pm
[12:13] <PriceChild> !o4o
[12:13] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-ops. Controversial topics, which always turn into flame wars: war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, suicide are not for here. Microsoft software in ##windows (Please note Freenode Policy)
[12:13] <elkbuntu> because suicide is a nasty subject to talk about
[12:13]  * PriceChild hides
[12:13] <elkbuntu> ikonia, if you responded to my work nickin the past 5 hours, i didnt see it
[12:13] <ikonia> agreed
[12:14] <PriceChild> All ops are bound within the guidelines of ubuntu channels, which require no discussion on suicide.... I don't care how bad it gets you're not getting out of it now!!
[12:14] <elkbuntu> haha
[12:14] <ikonia> elkbuntu: no problem, I'm on a clients sit this week so will give it attention when I get home
[12:14] <Pici> :P
[12:14] <ikonia> s/sit/site
[12:14] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: oh, damn.
[12:14] <nalioth> well, don't shave any bears
[12:14] <elkbuntu> ikonia, sure, my email address is on my launchpad page too, if that's easier
[12:14] <PriceChild> I saw a bear once
[12:14] <ikonia> thats fine, I've already got you
[12:15]  * nalioth ate a bear once
[12:15] <PriceChild> It was a saturday.
[12:16]  * Pici can't wait for #ubuntu+1 to close
[12:16] <ikonia> Pici: I'm begging for it
[12:16] <ikonia> h-a-r-d-y keys are worn out
[12:16] <jpatrick> p-a-r-t-y
[12:17] <ikonia> PriceChild: has something changed with the forum in the last 24 hours ?
[12:17] <PriceChild> ikonia: we upgraded to vB 3.7
[12:17] <PriceChild> Old theme was incompatible, ubuntu-geek rewrote one from scratch I htink.
[12:17] <ikonia> is the layout supposed to be the current layout or is it going back to the older interface ?
[12:17] <ikonia> ahh
[12:18] <ikonia> you pre-mpted
[12:18] <ikonia> e
[12:18] <PriceChild> He doesn't like the old messiness needed to replicate ubuntu.com
[12:19] <elkbuntu> im seeing a pixel glitch along the right border
[12:19] <ikonia> the new layout is killing me
[12:19] <PriceChild> I don't...?
[12:19] <elkbuntu> about 2cm from the top
[12:19] <elkbuntu> more like 1.5cm
[12:19] <PriceChild> what browser?
[12:20] <PriceChild> Could you screenshot then post it in forum feedback and help?
[12:20] <elkbuntu> will do later
[12:20] <elkbuntu> need to get back to cooking stuff to freeze for dinner party on saturday
[12:21] <nalioth> dinner party?
[12:21]  * nalioth didn't get an invitation  :(
[12:21] <ikonia> she is having a hardy launch party
[12:21] <ikonia> did you not get the invite
[12:21] <Pici> :(
[12:29]  * Seeker` can see the same glitch (I think)
[12:30] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Do you want me to post it on the forums?
[12:35] <elkbuntu> Seeker`, the top corner has like a 1px indent?
[12:36] <elkbuntu> and no, it's not a launch party, it's my housewarming and just coincides
[12:36] <Pici> riight
[12:36] <Seeker`> http://people.bath.ac.uk/cjo20/Screenshot.png
[12:37] <PriceChild> Seeker`: what browser?
[12:37] <Seeker`> Firefox
[12:37] <Seeker`> just checking the version
[12:37] <Seeker`> <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:37] <Pici> Hm, Mine looks fine on the FF3 nightly on Windows.
[12:37] <Seeker`> I'm running @ 1680x1050
[12:38] <Pici> And still looks fine if I do some zooming or text zooming
[12:38] <PriceChild> its tested on ff3 b5 and ie7 afaik
[12:39] <Seeker`> it should probably also be tested on the current stable firefox too
[12:39] <ikonia> just looked on ie7 can't see a problem
[12:40] <Seeker`> ikonia: what resolution are you running at?
[12:40] <ikonia> 1280x800
[12:40] <Seeker`> elkbuntu: what about you?
[12:41] <Pici> Mine looks fine in FF3 even if I expand the window to 2048x768
[12:41] <Seeker`> hmm
[12:42] <Pici> Mind you, I dont have FF2 around to test with
[12:42] <ikonia> Hmmm look in the server OS forum, can you only see 5 threads ?
[12:43] <Seeker`> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=339
[12:43] <Seeker`> ?
[12:43] <Seeker`> I can only see 5 threads on that page
[12:43] <ikonia> there is something wrong with that subforum
[12:43] <Pici> Showing threads 1 to 5 of 5
[12:44] <ikonia> looks like they have all been removed/archived until 5 threads
[12:45] <ikonia> they all seem to show 5 threads except for beginners thread
[12:46] <Seeker`> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4761308#post4761308
[12:58] <ikonia> Seeker`: nice one, thank you
[13:00] <elkbuntu> Seeker`, yes, widescreen, i think 1280x800
[13:00] <elkbuntu> and i'm still using ff2
[13:04] <Ogi> hi all
[13:05] <Seeker`> hi
[13:06] <Seeker`> how can we help you?
[13:07] <Ogi> sorry but it's not this chat what i wanted to enter ;p i do not know what is IRC??
[13:07] <Ogi> see ya
[13:07] <Gary> maybe he wanted #ubuntu-oops
[13:08] <elkbuntu> he can quit channels quite speedy for someone who doesnt know irc too
[13:10] <elkbuntu> he may have got forwarded to here too, his realname is 'java user'
[13:17] <jussio1> PriceChild: Ping
[14:38] <Pici> jrib: Thanks, I stupidly assumed that unknownamerican would stop the offtopicness after my last warning
[14:39] <jrib> I have him in a pm now
[14:40] <jrib> and now he's gone...
[14:54] <elkbuntu> yay, discussions about religion lead to spamming of troll channels :( whose bright idea was this again?
[15:28] <PriceChild> jussio1: pong
[16:08] <Seeker`> what was the experiment that guy mentioned last night?
[16:08] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: relaxing #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:14] <Seeker`> that does'nt sound like a great idea :P
[16:14] <Pici> Self moderating
[16:15] <Seeker`> hmm, but self moderation only works if the majority agree on what is "sensible"
[16:15] <Seeker`> I reckon that it would break down as soon as a "significant minority" decide to start trolling
[16:24] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: they moderate it more than we do
[16:42] <ubotu> Lamego called the ops in #ubuntu (THE-HARDY-HERON all day off-topic)
[16:42] <Pici> .
[16:44] <ubotu> hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[16:44] <Pici> hm
[16:44] <Pici> ban.pl didnt work too well there.
[16:45] <PriceChild> ban not needed really
[16:45] <Pici> PriceChild: I already removed him once.
[16:45] <Pici> That was not the first warning for him
[16:45] <Pici> Anyway, you're probably right
[16:46] <PriceChild> 10 minute quiets and they get bored
[16:46] <PriceChild> if its really necessary
[17:16] <jussio1> !staff | [19:12:57] <_Babygirl_> Merhaba Benle Dürüstce ArkadaþlýkEtmek Ýstiyorsan Arkadaþ Olmak Ýstersen €€€kelel€kell seldaist33@
[17:17] <Dave2> They're gone, thanks
[17:17] <jussio1> great :)
[17:17] <Dave2> (and the rest of 'em, too)
[17:17] <jussio1> you guys work quick. that came like 30 seconds before, if that.
[17:18] <jussi01> !test
[17:18] <ubotu> Failed.
[17:18] <jussio1> hrm, does the bot not like this nick? :/
[17:18] <jussio1> !test
[17:19] <PriceChild> do a different factoid
[17:19] <Pici> jussio1: it wont do it if you asked the same thing a moment ago: spam protection
[17:19] <jussio1> !ping
[17:19] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[17:19] <jussio1> curious, why didnt it like my staff one then?
[17:20] <Pici> jussio1: Probably some of the characters in there
[17:20] <PriceChild> unicode probably
[17:20] <jussio1> ahhh, yes, of course
[17:20] <PriceChild> !hardy | ü
[17:20] <PriceChild> !hardy | u
[17:20] <ubotu> ü: Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 24, 2008 - For more info, see:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Support in #ubuntu+1 - Come join the #ubuntu-release-party now!
[17:20] <ubotu> u: Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 24, 2008 - For more info, see:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Support in #ubuntu+1 - Come join the #ubuntu-release-party now!
[17:21] <PriceChild> a different one then 8-)
[17:22] <jussio1> aha, its the []
[17:22] <jussio1> !test | [
[17:22] <ubotu> [: Failed.
[17:22] <jussio1> hrm
[17:22] <Pici> !ping | [spam]
[17:22] <ubotu> [spam]: ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[17:23]  * Pici shrugs, stops abusing the bot
[17:23] <jussio1> it gave me this in pm: [19:18:42] <ubotu> Error: Missing "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
[17:23] <PriceChild> !test | €
[17:23] <ubotu> €: Failed.
[17:24] <jussio1> curious... anyway. whatever. :)
[17:51] <Pici> Exteris: How can we help you today?
[17:52] <Exteris> Hi, i have a request: Could someone put a message on the mibbit irc page that people need to be patient in some channels, because in #ubuntu-nl for instance, they leave after 30 seconds or something.
[17:52] <Exteris> 17 seconds after saying 'hi' actually :|
[17:52] <Pici> Exteris: We don't administer Mibbit.
[17:52] <Exteris> Pici, another method: PM from ubotu?
[17:52] <Pici> Exteris: Perhaps asking in #mibbit would be a better option?
[17:53] <Exteris> Pici, i mean the mibbit page integrated on the ubuntu website
[17:53] <Pici> Exteris: We have that? /me looks
[17:53] <Exteris> * Jovatov<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-nl
 Hey allemaal
[17:53] <Exteris> * Jovatov has quit (Client Quit)
[17:54] <Exteris> that happened within a minute, and we see a lot of mibbiters lately
[17:54] <Pici> Exteris: Can you link me to the page?
[17:54] <Exteris> sure i'll check
[17:55] <Exteris> I've seen the page
[17:55] <Pici> Exteris: Do you mean the page on ubuntu-nl.org ?
[17:55] <Exteris> can't seem to find it this fast :P
[17:56] <Exteris> that might be
[17:56] <Pici> http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/chat/ this ?
[17:56] <Exteris> oh yes
[17:56] <Exteris> that's something of our loco then
[17:56] <Exteris> :|
[17:56] <Pici> Yep
[17:56] <Exteris> sorry to bother you
[17:57] <Pici> No, its okay :)
[18:15] <Pici> RaMuS: Hello, how can we help you today?
[18:16] <RaMuS> sorry i didnt want to come here
[18:16] <RaMuS> ^^
[18:16] <RaMuS> wrong chan
[18:18] <Exteris> Pici, you have a script/trigger for that? /helloandhelp :P
[18:18] <Pici> Exteris: Nope, I just type it
[18:18] <Exteris> Pici, </kidding>
[18:18] <Pici> I: Please join #ubuntu+1 for Hardy/8.04 support/discussion.
[18:18] <Pici> er, have that too
[18:19] <Pici> Exteris: Anyway, is there anything else we could help you with today?
[18:20] <Exteris> Pici, you just tried, but i was wrong :P (i'll leave now then)
[18:20] <Exteris> oh 1 question
[18:21] <Pici> Sure
[18:21] <Exteris> does one of the admins of #ubuntu-nl have access to the chanserv join message for that channel?
[18:21] <Exteris> and i mean ppl like profoX` etc
[18:22] <Exteris> to add that the mibbiters entering need to be patient for at least some time, because this sucks :P
[18:22] <Pici> Exteris: Probably only Seve-as or SW-AT
[18:22] <Pici> Exteris: names changed so it doesnt ping them
[18:22] <Pici> They both have level 30 in -nl
[18:22] <Exteris> okay i'll ask them in -nl then
[18:22] <Exteris> ciao
[18:37] <tonyyarusso> Seveas: Say, I remember that ubotu once (maybe still?) announced all bugs as they were reported in #ubuntu-bugs.  Is this code with the rest of the stuff on LP, or was it using RSS feeds?
[18:37] <Pici> tonyyarusso: Its on lP
[18:37] <tonyyarusso> Pici: ah, sweet.
[18:38] <Seveas> tonyyarusso, it's announcing in #ubuntu-bugs-announce now
[18:38] <Pici> tonyyarusso: And I dont think that the RSS feeds were implemented on LP when it was written
[18:38]  * tonyyarusso should check out what the branch looks like lately, but doesn't want to learn how to use bzr on a Mac today
[18:38] <tonyyarusso> Pici: good point
[18:38] <tonyyarusso> Seveas: ah
[19:05] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: how are you today?
[19:06] <Jack_Sparrow> NOt bad.. trying to take it really slow
[19:06] <Jack_Sparrow> thanks for asking
[19:20] <Pici> !test
[19:20] <ubotu> Failed.
[19:22] <ubotu> In ubotu, Pici said: shipit =~ s/Gutsy \(7.10\)/Hardy \(8.04\)/
[19:23] <Pici> failed indeed.
[19:31] <Jack_Sparrow> I vote we forward paul to +1
[19:42] <Pici> done and done
[19:42] <Jack_Sparrow> Agreed..  thanks
[19:43] <Jack_Sparrow> pici   Here is the pm from thatguy   <thatGuy_> you are being a real asshole
[19:43] <PriceChild> 4h
[19:44] <Pici> PriceChild: hm?
[19:46] <Jack_Sparrow> Pici, just for the logs..  <thatGuy_> you ban me after I've already found my answer.    You just happen to be one of them
[19:51] <thatGuy_> how long am I banned from #ubuntu?
[19:53] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: ^
[19:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Pici
[19:53] <Pici> yes
[19:54] <thatGuy_> pici, well how long am I being forwarded to #ubuntu+1?
[19:54] <Pici> thatGuy_: Is there a reason that you did not join #ubuntu+1 after being asked multiple times that your question was not suited for #ubuntu ?
[19:54] <Jack_Sparrow> I posted him PM's to me you can decide...  He has been nothing but rude and unattentive to our requests to go to the right channel
[19:55] <Jack_Sparrow> his
[19:55] <thatGuy_> I admit being rude after being unjustly banned.  brb
[19:56] <Jack_Sparrow> Obviously he does not intend to obey the rules or listen...
[19:57] <thatGuy_> where is the rule saying I was join #ubuntu+1 for a general linux question?
[19:58] <thatGuy_> . . . saying I must* join. . .
[19:59] <Pici> thatGuy_: The 'rule' is that questions for the in-development version of Ubuntu (Hardy) are to be asked in #ubuntu+1 , not in #ubuntu, its in the channel topic and was mentioned many times to you
[19:59] <thatGuy_> pici, I asked how to find what modules the kernel has loaded.  I fail to see how that is Hardy Heron related.  That was my reasoning for not joining #ubuntu+1
[19:59] <thatGuy_> pici, the question was not "in-development version of Ubuntu" related
[20:01] <thatGuy_> "The 'rule' is that questions for the in-development version of Ubuntu (Hardy). . ."
[20:01] <thatGuy_> ^^^ That directly does not apply to what I asked
[20:01] <Pici> thatGuy_: Jack felt that since you were asking regarding ipw versus iwl 3945 that it was hardy related.
[20:02] <Pici> thatGuy_: And it would have been answered quite quickly in #ubuntu+1 if you had asked
[20:02] <Pici> thatGuy_: Anyway, I understand why you might be frustrated by this whole ordeal, but your response in PM was not appropriate at all.
[20:02] <thatGuy_> I actually didn't ask anything regarding ipw versus ipl.  I simply wanted to know what drivers I had loaded
[20:03] <thatGuy_> the ban was not appropriate at all
[20:03] <thatGuy_> neither was my reaction.  If I had known of this channel at that join, I would have joined here immediately
[20:03] <thatGuy_> at that time*
[20:04] <thatGuy_> how long is the forward to #ubuntu+1?
[20:05] <Pici> thatGuy_: Not long, Please take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and let me know when you are done
[20:05] <thatGuy_> ok
[20:08] <thatGuy_> I'm done reading it.  I've read http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct as well.
[20:10] <Pici> thatGuy_: Okay, I will go ahead and lift the ban, but please remember that we are only trying to help here.
[20:11] <thatGuy_> pici, ok.  Thank you very much
[20:12] <thatGuy_> pici, to clarify, should I go ahead and ask every question I have in #ubuntu+1 (at least until Thursday or I do an upgrade)?
[20:13] <Pici> thatGuy_: If its a hardy related question then it belongs in #ubuntu+1
[20:15] <Pici> uh oh
[20:16] <Pici> thatGuy_: anything else we can help you with?
[20:16] <thatGuy_> pici, my judgement on that appears to not be in accordance with the operators.....
[20:18] <thatGuy_> I don't expect that will be another problem though.  I don't believe I need any more help
[20:18] <Pici> thatGuy_: Well, if you do return, we'll be welcome to help you out as long as the guidelines are remembered.
[20:18] <thatGuy_> Pici: Sounds good.  I think I'm done here.
[20:19] <thatGuy_> see you in #ubuntu.  bye
[20:20] <Seveas> !ping
[20:20] <Pici> Seveas: Dead.
[20:20] <Seveas> yeah
[20:20] <Seveas> power cycling
[20:20] <Pici> jussio1: Is ubot5 yours?
[20:21] <Pici> jussio1: If so, there is a supybot option to turn off it complainging when x is not a valid command.
[20:25] <Pici> complanigingingnng
[20:27] <Seveas> ubotu is on his way back
[20:27] <ompaul> be afraid?
[20:28]  * Seveas needs new colo
[20:29] <Pici> I unmuted ubot5 in #ubuntu, it probably need to be re-muted when ubotu regains consciousness
[23:03] <Odd-rationale> Hello! Just a suggestion. Could you add that the forums is down in the #ubuntu topic? That would help until it is back up and running. Thanks!
[23:07] <Odd-rationale> nvm. it is up now...
[23:19] <Pici> ikonia: Thanks
[23:19] <ikonia> not at all
[23:19] <ikonia> didn't notice you awake
[23:20] <ikonia> although I think you may have to step in now
[23:20] <Pici> ikonia: I'm not even really here, just got a language notification
[23:20] <ikonia> ah
[23:20] <ikonia> well "he wants girls now"
[23:20] <ikonia> so your up


[21:46] <willwh> hi guys anyone awake?
[21:46] <willwh> I'm wondering about a tool to test geo-delivery
[21:46] <willwh> i.e. single DNS endpoint (that routes to other instances)
[21:46] <willwh> I want to get maybe, http response codes, latency, stuff like that
[21:46] <willwh> anyone know of anything like that?


[03:27] <Populus> Hiya
[08:53] <__chip__> my main machine is doing the cute "don't POST, blink some leds" routine, so I'll probably spend some time with a screwdriver and a cursebook
[08:53] <zyga> re
[08:53] <__chip__> zyga: o/
[08:53] <zyga> __chip__: hey :)
[08:53] <__chip__> zyga: how's poland?
[08:54] <zyga> __chip__: just as we left it, I think
[08:54] <zyga> not much has changed
[08:55] <zyga> (including the reasons for not being here in the first place)
[08:55] <zyga> in other news, we're looking to move out ASAP
[08:55] <zyga> but unable to for some time
[08:55] <zyga> how's UK?
[08:55] <zyga> still U?
[08:55] <__chip__> zyga: out of the place, or the country?
[08:55] <zyga> the place
[08:55] <__chip__> ah, phew
[08:55] <zyga> being in the country for now will help
[08:56] <__chip__> UK still divided, still better than ar :-)
[08:56] <zyga> "universally divided, we stand united" or something
[08:56] <__chip__> sounds about right
[08:57] <__chip__> anyway, i need to go find a screwdriver
[08:57] <zyga> how are things, I'm sorry I was off all morning but I was stuck in "register your company" webbrowser windows hell
[08:58] <__chip__> zyga: <__chip__> my main machine is doing the cute "don't POST, blink some leds" routine, so I'll probably spend some time with a screwdriver and a cursebook
[08:59] <ogra_> wow, i hadnt one doing that in a decade i think
[09:00] <zyga> __chip__: ouch, I hope it's nothing serious
[09:00] <zyga> __chip__: in case you need a spare machine, I have some still boxed, just come to warsaw and collect it
[09:00] <zyga> __chip__: PC speaker helps
[09:00] <zyga> but if it doesn't post and you didn't pour coffee on it, it's the RAM
[09:01] <zyga> hey ogra_ for a moment I was wondering if you were referring to setting up a company or having a machine not post
[09:01] <zyga> must be morning
[09:01] <zyga> mvo: how's everything?
[09:01] <ogra_> lol
[09:02] <mvo> zyga: good morning, looking at the tsync issue on trusty currently, mostly understood I think
[09:03] <mvo> zyga: there is the open question what to do about it, I will write a forum post about it I think, we have some options, not exactly sure which is the best one just now
[09:05] <__chip__> zyga: numlock and scroll lock on, caps lock blinking, led machine --> RAM issue
[09:06] <__chip__> zyga: https://www.parts-people.com/blog/2014/07/02/dell-latitude-e6400-led-post-codes-diagnostic-indicators/
[09:06] <__chip__> s/led machine/dell machine/ :-)
[09:08] <zyga> __chip__: did anything happen to your machine or power grid since it last worked?
[09:08] <ogra_> your obsolescence-counter is full :)
[09:08] <zyga> mvo: this is about the "re-execed" version of the tool being unsuitable for older systems?
[09:09] <mvo> zyga: correct, its a combination of issues.
[09:10] <mvo> zyga: the best option is probably to statically link snap-seccomp on the core snap - the downside is that the debian/rules modification is ugly
[09:10] <zyga> mvo: is that a per "go build" option?
[09:11] <zyga> mvo: one idea we might try is to run ld-so on snap-seccomp
[09:11] <zyga> mvo: not sure if you think this is sensible
[09:12] <mvo> zyga: I tried that and things segfaulted
[09:13] <zyga> oh, that's interesting (and unfortunate)
[09:13] <zyga> how did you run it?
[09:13] <mvo> zyga: I did not investigate the segfault further tough
[09:13] <zyga> (I was hoping to use this approach for other things0
[09:13] <mvo> zyga: I can look again
[09:13] <zyga> not urgent, just curious
[09:22] <mvo> zyga: I don't get anything useful from gdb,  i use the same commandline as CommandFromCore() is using
[09:22] <zyga> I see
[09:23] <mvo> zyga: funny enough, even LD_LIBARARY_PATH=... ldd ./usr/lib/snapd/snap-seccomp core dumps
[09:25] <mvo> zyga: ok, anything does, hm, hn
[09:26] <Chipaca> huzzah!
[09:27] <mvo> zyga: aha, getting closer, broken symlinks
[09:29] <zyga> lip 10 11:28:47 fyke kernel: audit: type=1400 audit(1499678927.313:439): apparmor="DENIED" operation="capable" profile="/snap/core/2329/usr/lib/snapd/snap-confine" pid=19314 comm="snap-confine" capability=4  capname="fsetid"
[09:31] <zyga> mvo: curious if this is not one of our chown's
[09:34] <mvo> zyga: could be, where do you see this?
[09:45] <pstolowski> Chipaca, #3569 updated
[09:46] <Chipaca> pstolowski: looking
[09:48] <Chipaca> hmm, something is still not happy with this box
[09:54] <Chipaca> psftw: thank you!
[09:54] <Chipaca> uh
[09:54] <Chipaca> pstolowski: ^
[09:54] <pstolowski> Chipaca, ty!
[09:55] <mvo> zyga: CommandInCore now also works, things look good, need to clean that up a bit more though
[09:55] <mvo> zyga: but at least things move forward
[09:56] <zyga> mvo: just running hello-world.evil
[09:56] <zyga> mvo: I installed aa-notify
[09:57] <Chipaca> wellp, and now a kernel BUG thing
[09:58] <Chipaca> sounds like i need to re-reseat the memory and run memtest for a while
[10:17]  * Chipaca declares victory over the ram monster, in order to tempt it early
[10:59] <mup> PR snapd#3576 opened: tests: snap debug confinement does not exists yet in 2.26.x <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3576>
[11:04] <mvo> zyga: I created the forum topic now about the snap-seccomp, I wonder what the best way forward is, it could be either static linking or using osutil.CommandFromCore() - I lean towards the later
[11:11] <zyga> mvo: let me read and comment
[11:11]  * zyga experiments with apparmor tracing on 2nd computer
[11:13]  * Son_Goku grumbles about fontconfig
[11:14] <Son_Goku> libfontconfig isn't thread-safe, woo :(
[11:18] <Chipaca> Son_Goku: party yeah party woo </vihart>
[11:18] <Son_Goku> this happened, which is why I'm grumbling about libfontconfig: https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib/issues/177
[11:19] <Chipaca> Son_Goku: (that's a reference to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niz8TfY794&feature=youtu.be&t=212 fwiw -- sorry if it was obscure :-) )
[11:20] <Chipaca> anyway, machine seems moderately happy, i'm off for a run and lunch will bbl
[11:31] <niemeyer> Good mornings
[11:37] <Son_Goku> niemeyer: morning
[12:38] <mvo> jdstrand: hey jdstrand, good morning! I looked into the tsync issue with snap-seccomp on trusty this morning and wrote whats going on in https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/2-26-8-libseccomp-on-trusty/ - let me know what solution you prefer
[12:48] <jdstrand> mvo: good morning, lookingn
[12:48] <jdstrand> looking*
[12:54] <zyga> jdstrand: hey, after you are done with that, can you please have a look at https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/apparmor-profile-caching/1268 and https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/using-snap-update-ns-from-snap-confine-to-initialize-mount-namespaces/1266/1 please
[13:02] <jdstrand> mvo: done
[13:02] <niemeyer> Sorry, running late for the standup.. will be there in a second
[13:06] <jdstrand> zyga: looking
[13:10] <mup> PR snapcraft#1400 opened: lxd: Distingish FileNotFoundError if not installed <bug> <Created by kalikiana> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1400>
[13:13] <zyga> jdstrand: thank you :)
[13:37] <cachio> mvo, zyga, about the snap-seccomp error? any idea why the lib is not there? is it related to the other issue?
[13:40] <mvo> cachio: could you please pastebin the exact error again? I suspect it is just a spec file update, i.e. I think the binary is not copied into the right place for some reason. is this happening with master?
[13:41] <cachio> mvo, it is happening with the fedora branch
[13:42] <cachio> mvo, https://paste.ubuntu.com/25061349/
[13:43] <cachio> I'll rebase again to discard any other problem
[13:43] <mvo> cachio: could you please also show e the link for the fedora branch?
[13:43] <cachio> mvo, https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3505
[13:43] <mup> PR snapd#3505: PLEASE IGNORE: Enable more tests for suse and fedora <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3505>
[13:44] <zyga> cachio, mvo: I'll resolve 3505
[13:44] <mvo> zyga: ta
[13:51] <Chipaca> mvo: was your "thank you" on sil's snapd#3574 a +1?
[13:51] <mup> PR snapd#3574: snap find only searches stable <Created by stuartlangridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3574>
[14:10] <mup> PR snapd#3531 closed: interfaces: updates default, mir, optical-observe, system-observe, screen-inhibit-control and unity7 <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3531>
[14:11] <mup> PR snapd#3574 closed: cmd/snap: snap find only searches stable <Created by stuartlangridge> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3574>
[14:15] <pstolowski> cjwatson, hey! do you want to make the simple change to #3501 suggested by Samuele, so we can land it?
[14:17] <cjwatson> sure, give me a minute to run tests and such
[14:24] <Chipaca> woo, mwhudson got the golang fix backported and sitting in xenial-proposed :-D
[14:27] <cjwatson> pstolowski: done
[14:29] <mup> PR snapd#3409 closed: tests: fix snap confine from core test to check the restart was done <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3409>
[14:29] <pstolowski> cjwatson, thanks
[15:01] <Chipaca> snapd#3478 is a nice easy review, if anybody's looking for something to do
[15:01] <mup> PR snapd#3478: tests: extend upower-observe test to cover snaps providing slots <Created by fgimenez> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3478>
[15:02] <Chipaca> (it's already got one +1)
[15:08] <ppisati> ogra_: i'm using this ubuntu core pi3 img: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/16/ubuntu-core-16-pi3.img.xz
[15:08] <ppisati> ogra_: but i can't get any overlay to load, how is that?
[15:08] <Chipaca> snapd#3481 is a slightly more involved PR, but still straightforward, needing a second review
[15:08] <mup> PR snapd#3481: tests: add avahi-observe interface test <Created by fgimenez> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3481>
[15:09] <ogra_> ppisati, you need to unpack the overlays.tgz
[15:09] <ogra_> iirc in stable we still had that only as tarball
[15:11] <ogra_> ppisati, this got fixed shortly after the first stable release, but since we cant update gadget content yet tsble still has the initial setup with the tgz
[15:11] <ogra_> s/tsble/stable/
[15:11] <ppisati> ogra_: i unpacked that in /boot/uboot where the rest of the boot fw resides, modified config.txt accordinlgy but nothing is loaded
[15:12] <ogra_> it needs to be in an "overlays" subdir
[15:12] <ppisati> ogra_: if i build a beta image, would it work? or is there a pre-baked image that i can use?
[15:12] <ogra_> the blob has the path hardcoded
[15:12] <ppisati> ogra_: yes, it's in /boot/uboot/overlays/*
[15:12] <ogra_> ppisati, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/all-snaps/daily/current/
[15:12]  * ppisati tries the current
[15:13] <ogra_> that loads the vc4 overlay by default
[15:13] <ppisati> ogra_: ok
[15:13] <ogra_> so i'm 100% prositive that overlays work
[15:13] <ppisati> ogra_: ooook
[15:35] <mup> PR snapd#3501 closed: store: orders API now checks if customer is ready <Created by cjwatson> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3501>
[15:40] <mup> PR snapd#3481 closed: tests: add avahi-observe interface test <Created by fgimenez> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3481>
[15:41] <mup> PR snapd#3399 closed: many: add the interface command <Decaying> <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3399>
[16:12] <mup> PR snapd#3495 closed: tests: remove snapd before building from branch <Created by fgimenez> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3495>
[16:20] <mup> PR snapcraft#1401 opened: Correct capitalisation for PyPI <Created by evandandrea> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1401>
[16:51] <pachulo> hey! how do you delete a snap from the store?
[16:55] <mvo> niemeyer: I updated https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/2-26-8-libseccomp-on-trusty/1265 - if you have a moment, it would be great if you could have a look and comment. no rush, I have dinner now and call it a day soon
[16:55] <niemeyer> mvo: Will definitely do, thanks for that
[18:04] <cachio> zyga, any idea why it could be failing? https://paste.ubuntu.com/25062665/
[18:04] <cachio> zyga, it is happening on fedora
[18:48] <sergiusens> tyhicks: jdstrand hi there, mind directing me to the snappy security whitepaper?
[18:50] <tyhicks> hey sergiusens
[18:51] <tyhicks> jdstrand: I'm getting a 404 for the whitepaper (https://developer.ubuntu.com/snappy/guides/security-whitepaper) is this an updated copy? http://people.canonical.com/~davidcalle/core/Whitepaper:%20Ubuntu%20Core%2016%20-%20Security.pdf
[18:52]  * sergiusens waits for confirmation
[18:58] <cachio> Son_Goku, hey
[18:58] <Son_Goku> cachio: hi?
[18:58] <zyga>  z
[18:58] <zyga> cachio: looking
[18:59] <cachio> Son_Goku, I am now working on morphis stuff to make snapd tests work on fedora
[18:59] <Son_Goku> cachio: who are you?
[18:59] <cachio> Son_Goku, I am sergio, we meet on london
[18:59] <zyga> cachio: no idea
[18:59] <Son_Goku> ah
[18:59]  * zyga returns to fighting his network issues :/
[19:00] <cachio> zyga, any idea bout the issue with snap-seccomp ?
[19:00] <cachio> did you take a look?
[19:03] <cachio> Son_Goku, I am trying to fix the tests for fedora and I see this issue trying to build the snapd binary
[19:03] <cachio> error: File not found: /usr/src/packages/BUILDROOT/snapd-13<IP_ADDRESS>-2.x86_64/usr/lib/snapd/snap-seccomp
[19:03] <cachio> Son_Goku, did you see that before?
[19:03] <cachio> morphis told you something about that one?
[19:04] <morphis> cachio: I guess the snapd rpm packaging isn't yet updating to include that binary
[19:06] <cachio> morphis, you mean the spec to build it is missing?
[19:06] <morphis> I guess so
[19:06] <morphis> snap-seccomp seems to be a really recent addition
[19:07] <cachio> morphis, ok, I'll try to add that
[19:07] <cachio> morphis, thanks
[19:07] <morphis> great
[19:07] <morphis> np
[19:16] <jdstrand> davidcalle: hey, it appears https://developer.ubuntu.com/snappy/guides/security-whitepaper is 404
[19:16] <jdstrand> davidcalle: also, http://people.canonical.com/~davidcalle/core/Whitepaper:%20Ubuntu%20Core%2016%20-%20Security.pdf is out of date, should be rc9
[19:17] <jdstrand> tyhicks, sergiusens: fyi ^
[19:18] <sergiusens> jdstrand: thanks, do you have it on your p.c.c ?
[19:18] <jdstrand> sergiusens: I do not, davidcalle manages it, but I gave you the link to the source doc in privmsg
[19:19] <jdstrand> you could export to pdf from there
[19:27] <DeeJayh> Is there a way to use the ubuntu core without snaps? I used to use the core on minimalist builds to have only what I need/want kind of like a archlinux/gentoo style build if you will
[19:30] <jdstrand> DeeJayh: others may say point you at something different, but Ubuntu Core must use snaps and isn't a building block for an apt-based system. you probably want to consider the netboot images: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
[19:31] <jdstrand> DeeJayh: actually, I think http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/ is better for that
[19:31] <jdstrand> DeeJayh: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Base
[19:32] <DeeJayh> you're a god
[19:32] <DeeJayh> *bows*
[19:32] <DeeJayh> Thanks jdstrand I had no idea this existed
[19:32] <jdstrand> it has gone through a few different names over the years
[19:33] <DeeJayh> I was aware of netboot but it didn't fit my needs, that base build is exactly what I've been dreaming of lol
[19:33] <DeeJayh> I used to compile core before it became snappy
[19:33] <jdstrand> cool, glad it fits your needs :)
[19:33] <jdstrand> right
[19:33] <jdstrand> that was one of the names. since ubuntu-core as a minimal os and Ubuntu Core were confusing, they renamed ubuntu-core ubuntu-base
[19:37] <DeeJayh> sounds like a good call on their part lol
[19:38] <DeeJayh> the only other question I have, because I am unfamiliar with the architectures, for ARM devices, is the arm64 64bit and armhf the 32bit?
[19:44] <DeeJayh> nvm quick google search alleviated my curiousity lol thank you again
[20:01] <davidcalle> jdstrand: pdf should be up to date now, PR for redirects waiting to be merged and deployed, sorry for the delay
[20:01] <davidcalle> Will update the source comments once it's done
[20:34] <jdstrand> davidcalle: ok, thanks! (tyhicks, fyi ^)
[20:35] <tyhicks> thanks
[21:26] <mwhudson> Chipaca: you ok to do the verification on that?