[02:00] <dobey> kenvandine: well, looks like it passed now. if QA hits it in the morning, perhaps you can publish by the time you start working :)
[02:04] <kenvandine> dobey, awesome
[05:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2508 Publishing packages
[06:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2508 Proposed pocket
[08:53] <vigo> dobey, ^
[08:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2517 QA Signoff: Approved
[09:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2381 Failed to understand "https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-ui-extras/force-serial-test-run/+merge/318223". Is it a merge?
[09:03] <jgdx> trainguards, hey, wonder if you could clear ubuntu-settings-components from silo 2381?
[09:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2381 Preparing packages
[09:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2381 Currently building (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings). Failed to build (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Successfully built (xenial/ubuntu-settings-components, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-settings-components, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[09:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2508 Release pocket
[10:01] <Mirv> jgdx: ok
[10:02] <Mirv> jgdx: done now, takes some time before bileto's status notices it
[10:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2381 Failed to build (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Successfully built (xenial/ubuntu-settings-components, xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-settings-components, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[10:12] <jgdx> Mirv, thank you
[10:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Preparing packages
[10:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2381 Failed to build (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Successfully built (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[10:51] <vigo> tedg_, ping
[11:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Successfully built
[11:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Mirv, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2519 Preparing packages
[11:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Mirv, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2519 Generating diffs
[12:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Mirv, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2519 Failed to build (xenial/qtdeclarative-opensource-src).  You must supply either a Commit Message on your MP, or a custom debian/changelog entry
[12:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Pending binary packages (xenial/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[12:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to build (xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/unity-api). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/miral, zesty/qtmir, zesty/unity-api, zesty/unity8). Successfully built (xenial/miral, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtmir-gles)
[12:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-printing-app, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[13:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Preparing packages
[13:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Preparing packages
[13:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 zesty/unity-api: Failed to commit https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity-api/workspaces. You must supply either a Commit Message on your MP, or a custom debian/changelog entry
[13:32] <dobey> vigo: what's up?
[13:33] <vigo> dobey, no worries, just pinged you when I approved the silo this morning :)
[13:34] <dobey> vigo: the big orange ubuntu button in unity8 opens app drawer now.
[13:35] <vigo> dobey, oh you're looking to the current one
[13:38] <vigo> dobey, ack :)
[13:38] <dobey> and looking at the test plan for url-dispatcher i'm not sure it makes any sense
[13:38] <vigo> dobey, I agree
[13:39] <dobey> also unity7 doesn't use url-dispatcher
[13:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Pending binary packages (xenial/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[13:39] <vigo> dobey, ok, I'll write it down in trell and approve then
[13:39] <vigo> everyhting else is fine
[13:40] <dobey> vigo: it seems like it means to search the wikipedia scope under unity8
[13:42] <vigo> dobey, that's working
[13:42] <vigo> and you can link with browser as it is one of the few apps working
[13:42] <vigo> at least for me :)
[13:42] <dobey> yeah as long as it's the browser from .deb
[13:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/unity8). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu, xenial/qtubuntu-gles, xenial/ubuntu-keyboard, xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-touch-session, xenial/unity8, zesty/indicator-keyboard, zesty/qtmir, zesty/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtubuntu, zesty/qtubuntu-gles, zesty/ubuntu-keyboard, zesty/ubuntu-sys
[13:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to build (xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/unity-api). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/miral, zesty/qtmir, zesty/unity-api, zesty/unity8). Successfully built (xenial/miral, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtmir-gles)
[13:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-printing-app, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[14:06] <kenvandine> vigo, you marked 2516 as approved in trello but not bileto, could you please approve that?
[14:07] <dobey> kenvandine: hi. can you ack/publish 2517 too please?
[14:07] <kenvandine> dobey, sure
[14:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2517 Publishing packages
[14:09] <vigo> kenvandine, right away
[14:09] <kenvandine> vigo, thanks!
[14:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ted charles dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2516 QA Signoff: Approved
[14:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ted charles dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2516 Publishing packages
[14:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Preparing packages
[14:11] <dobey> thanks kenvandine
[14:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2517 Proposed pocket (zesty/indicator-printers). Release pocket (xenial/indicator-printers)
[14:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ted charles dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2516 Proposed pocket (zesty/indicator-datetime, zesty/keeper, zesty/url-dispatcher). Release pocket (xenial/indicator-datetime, xenial/keeper, xenial/url-dispatcher)
[14:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- oSoMoN, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2504 Preparing packages
[14:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2517 Release pocket
[14:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/content-hub). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-printing-app, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[14:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Mirv, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2519 Failed to build (xenial/qtdeclarative-opensource-src). Ready to build (xenial/qtdeclarative-opensource-src-gles)
[15:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- oSoMoN, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2504 Failed to build (zesty/webbrowser-app). Pending binary packages (xenial/webbrowser-app)
[15:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Pending binary packages (xenial/unity8). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu, xenial/qtubuntu-gles, xenial/ubuntu-keyboard, xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-touch-session, zesty/indicator-keyboard, zesty/qtmir, zesty/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtubuntu, zesty/qtubuntu-gles, zesty/ubuntu-keyboard, zesty/ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/ubu
[15:17] <oSoMoN> trainguards: can you please re-run https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2504/+build/12067454 ? (flaky test)
[15:19] <xnox> building
[15:20] <oSoMoN> thanks!
[15:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2483 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/cmake-extras). Successfully built (xenial/cmake-extras)
[15:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Successfully built
[15:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- oSoMoN, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2504 Successfully built
[15:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-printing-app, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[16:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-keyboard). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu, xenial/qtubuntu-gles, xenial/ubuntu-keyboard, xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-touch-session, xenial/unity8, zesty/qtmir, zesty/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtubuntu, zesty/qtubuntu-gles, zesty/ubuntu-keyboard, zesty/ubuntu-system-settings,
[16:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Preparing packages
[16:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 zesty/ubuntu-printing-app: Failed to branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ahayzen/ubuntu-printing-app/add-ubuntu-printing-app
[16:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine ahayzen, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2236 Dependency wait (zesty/qtubuntu-print). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/content-hub, zesty/ubuntu-printing-app). Successfully built (xenial/content-hub, xenial/qtubuntu-print, xenial/ubuntu-printing-app, xenial/ubuntu-ui-extras, zesty/ubuntu-ui-extras)
[17:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Preparing packages
[17:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2520 Preparing packages
[17:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Pending binary packages (xenial/indicator-keyboard, zesty/indicator-keyboard). Successfully built (xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu, xenial/qtubuntu-gles, xenial/ubuntu-keyboard, xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/ubuntu-touch-session, xenial/unity8, zesty/qtmir, zesty/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtubuntu, zesty/qtubuntu-gles, zesty/ubuntu-keyboard, zesty/ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/ubu
[17:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2483 Preparing packages
[17:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- ltinkl, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2481 Successfully built
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2520 Needs rebuild due to new commits
[18:06] <dobey> kenvandine: hmm, any idea why the ual and new silo stuff hasn't migrated yet? they all seem to be "valid candidate"
[18:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- dobey, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2483 Successfully built
[18:38] <kenvandine> dobey, looking
[18:38] <kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/libubuntu-app-launch4.html
[18:38] <kenvandine> dobey, ^^ libertine-scope
[18:39] <kenvandine> hmmm
[18:39] <kenvandine> i didn't remember seeing that yesterday
[18:40]  * kenvandine prepares a branch
[18:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Preparing packages
[18:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 zesty/unity-api: Failed to commit https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity-api/workspaces. You must supply either a Commit Message on your MP, or a custom debian/changelog entry
[18:49] <kenvandine> dobey, i guess libertine-scope isn't complete abandonware... but it doesn't look like it's been buildable for a while
[18:49] <kenvandine> getting a fix
[18:49] <dobey> ok
[18:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Preparing packages
[18:55] <dobey> hmm, i wonder why libertine scope uses ual at all. i thought it was just talking to liberetine directly
[18:56] <dobey> we should probably work on getting it and click scope both removed from the archive at this point i think, since app drawer takes care of that now
[18:58] <dobey> ChrisTownsend, bregma: ^^ is that an accurate view of where libertine-scope stands today?
[19:00] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: Are you asking about whether libertine scope uses ual or are you asking if we should remove it from the archive because of app drawer?
[19:00] <ChrisTownsend> Or both maybe?:)
[19:01] <dobey> ChrisTownsend: well, the archive thinks it uses ual, so i don't think you need to answer that. so mostly if we should remove it from the archive
[19:04] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: Well, I say until the App Drawer has the ability to discern between different containers, then I would vote that it should stay in the archive.  Otherwise, folks using Libertine w/ multiple containers with the same app installed will not know which app they want to launch.  I realize that is kind of a corner case, but we get questions quite a bit about the App Drawer and X apps.
[19:05] <dobey> has there been any discussion at all with design about how best to do that?
[19:05] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: Not that I'm aware of.  I keep bringing it up to management too.
[19:07] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: But it's possible it has been discussed, it just hasn't trickled back to me:)
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2521 Preparing packages
[19:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2521 zesty/libertine-scope: Failed to branch https://code.launchpad.net/~larryprice/libertine-scope/updated-cmake-extras
[19:15] <kenvandine> larryprice, ^^
[19:15] <kenvandine> bileto failed to branch your branch
[19:15] <larryprice> kenvandine, o no
[19:15] <kenvandine> weird
[19:17] <larryprice> kenvandine, says parent does not exist... i may have made a mistake in the ancestry of that branch. we can try again
[19:18] <kenvandine> ok, i guess start a new branch
[19:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to build (xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/miral, zesty/qtmir, zesty/unity8). Pending binary packages (xenial/unity-api, zesty/unity-api). Successfully built (xenial/miral, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtmir-gles)
[19:20] <dobey> oof
[19:24] <dobey> kenvandine: erm, just a hiccup in launchpad maybe?
[19:25] <larryprice> running that command gives me the same result locally
[19:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2521 Preparing packages
[19:26] <dobey> yup
[19:26] <dobey> it's building now
[19:27] <kenvandine> indeed...
[19:28] <dobey> oh i guess trello is in us-east-1 too
[19:28] <dobey> whee
[19:30] <kenvandine> oh that'll help...
[19:30] <kenvandine> grrr
[19:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to build (xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/miral, zesty/qtmir, zesty/unity8). Successfully built (xenial/miral, xenial/qtmir, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/unity-api, zesty/qtmir-gles, zesty/unity-api)
[19:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2521 Pending binary packages
[20:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- kenvandine, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2521 Successfully built
[20:38] <kenvandine> rvr, libertine-scope in silo 2521 has no reverse depends, can we ack the rebuild for the UAL transition to unblock zesty promotion?
[20:39] <kenvandine> rvr, i'd rather not wait for trello to come back online and it doesn't affect any products
[20:42] <dobey> kenvandine: and all the QA people are already gone, being almost 22:00 in EU
[20:42] <kenvandine> dobey, that too... rvr seems to often be around though :)
[20:42] <dobey> or slightly early or later, depending (i guess i have to say UK separately from EU now)
[20:43] <dobey> i have a silo that i would like to get published asap too, since it's a build tool and QA really doesn't need to do anything for it
[21:06] <dobey> kenvandine: publish and ask for forgiveness later? :)
[21:40] <dobey> kenvandine: please? this blockage is getting annoying :)
[21:41] <dobey> hmm, or maybe i should just manually funge a couple things to make my life a little easier
[23:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2464 Updates pocket
[23:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2467 Updates pocket
[23:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2488 Updates pocket


[09:01] <popey> interesting blog post from czajkowski, i didn't even notice the "guest post" line at the top till after I'd read it
[09:32] <czajkowski> morning
[09:33] <czajkowski> popey: aye trying to get the word out about stuff happening in Ireland from people who are still doing stuff byt not ubuntu members yet
[09:33] <czajkowski> though I am gonna get Mike to go for membership soon
[09:33] <czajkowski> but he just doesnt think he does stuff
[09:33] <czajkowski> ;)
[10:13] <daubers> czajkowski: Bit like a hackspacE?
[10:13] <czajkowski> aye
[10:14] <daubers> Speaking of which, I really should finish writing my arduino course
[10:15]  * MartijnVdS installs his new (4 disk, instead of 2) NAS
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> more room for the photos!
[10:16] <daubers> Raid 10?
[10:16] <daubers> Raid 5?
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> 5
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> well "magic" -- if I replaced two smaller disks with a bigger one, it'd magically create RAID1 on the "extra"  bit and LVM it together
[10:17] <daubers> .......
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: It's a Synology NAS, it's automatic :)
[10:18] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Good thing you're not after performance!
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm after storage space ;)
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> and I like how it's "normal" Linux RAID + LVM, not some custom disk format
[10:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:32] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> gigabit++
[10:33] <brobostigon> cool :)
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> saves me so much time when transferring my data to my new NAS :)
[10:33] <brobostigon> :D
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> 45 MB/s .. not quite the full gigabit, but good enough for now
[10:48] <daubers> MartijnVdS: SMB or NFS?
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> smb
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> I haven't figured out how to map UIDs
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> NEED_IDMAPD=yes
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> Except it's a lot of work to set up
[12:09] <Laney> oops
[12:09] <Laney> I gave EDF a reading that was 1200kWh too high and almost ended up paying £120 extra
[12:09] <Laney> 1000kWh*
[12:10] <SpudULike> I'm sure they would have spotted the error .....
[12:10] <SpudULike> ... not.
[12:10] <Laney> no, they just issued the bill
[12:10] <Laney> next reading wouldnt have made sense though ...
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> next reading would have corrected it
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> even if they were to send a guy around to check
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> Laney: They complained about my gas reading :) "4 m³? That's impossible!"
[14:22] <ali1234> they are supposed to check it once a year even if you give them readings
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: They only have to check every 2-3 years on this side of the sea
[14:58] <Aivaras> I am thinking of buing new Sony Vaio E14, may anyone has that same model?
[16:05] <ali1234> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3257875&cid=42012165
[16:06] <ali1234> people don't put a passphrase on their ssh keys?
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> on automatic signing keys?
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> or was this not one?
[16:09] <ali1234> dunno about the freebsd key, just specifically refering to that comment
[16:15] <BigRedS> lots of people use passhpraseless keys
[16:15] <BigRedS> "I use keys so I don't need to type my password in every time"
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> I use agent so I don't have to type in my password every time..
[16:22] <SuperEngineer> Found a nice way of not having to dump Ubuntu from my old Acer netbook this week [12.04 Unity is a bit too heavy for it]
[16:23] <SuperEngineer> switched to GL dock from ppa [more unity friendly]... back to luving Ubuntu on netbook
[16:23] <SuperEngineer> [gl dock = Cairo Dock]
[16:26] <SuperEngineer> Cairo Dock latest = lastest way of doing an Ubuntu Netbook Remix ;)
[16:39] <Aivaras> What should I blame for strange mp3 playback?
[16:40] <ali1234> blame pulseaudio
[16:40] <ali1234> that's what everyone else does
[16:41] <ali1234> but seriously
[16:41] <ali1234> what software are you using to play the mp3s?
[16:41] <Aivaras> any
[16:41] <ali1234> hmm
[16:41] <Aivaras> from vlc to Banshee
[16:41] <ali1234> what about other formats?
[16:42] <Aivaras> movies with AAC seams to be OK.
[16:42] <ali1234> what exactly is strange?
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> 48000 vs 44100?
[16:43] <Aivaras> You know how old CD players in car plays?
[16:43] <ali1234> like skipping?
[16:43] <Aivaras> yeah
[16:43] <Aivaras> skipping, repeating
[16:43] <ali1234> could be PA buffer under/overruns
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> could be corrupt files
[16:43] <ali1234> which could be an audiorate problem
[16:43] <ali1234> yeah, could be corrupt files
[16:44] <Aivaras> And it seams that it happens more then I use external card then internal.
[16:44] <ali1234> if the CD skips when you rip to MP3 it sounds exactly like a skipping CD... even if you do a digital rip
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> buffer underruns.
[16:44] <ali1234> yeah i would guess buffer problems in PA
[16:44] <Aivaras> ps. files on phone and ipod works nice.
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> the same files?
[16:44] <Aivaras> yeah
[16:45] <ali1234> so its not a problem in the files. ok
[16:45] <ali1234> you could try tweaking the PA buffers
[16:45] <Aivaras> how to do that?
[16:45] <ali1234> i forgot how to do it but it helped me before
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: is the machine exceptionally slow or old?
[16:45] <ali1234> hmm... watch this video... hang on
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: or the sound card exceptionally uncommon?
[16:45] <Aivaras> Core 2 Duo
[16:46] <Aivaras> Sound Blaster play!"
[16:46] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0wlaXbc_8
[16:46]  * MartijnVdS lost track of Create Labs after the AWE32 ;)
[16:46] <ali1234> listen to audio... sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's all broken up
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> Creative Labs
[16:46] <ali1234> is that how it sounds?
[16:47] <ali1234> also check in audio properties for that flickering of sinks
[16:47] <ali1234> sound settings -> applications
[16:48] <Aivaras> no flickering
[16:48] <Aivaras> one moment I will record how mine sounds
[16:50] <ali1234> core 2 duo is kinda old but not so old that i would expect it to be unable to play an mp3
[16:50] <ali1234> i remember my 486 couldn't play mp3s but when i upgraded to P133 it could
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> my 486 could do it, but I couldn't do anything else
[16:51] <ali1234> mine was not quite fast enough. no FPU i think. it couldn't play quake either
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> 486SX!
[16:51] <ali1234> the pentium used about 50% of CPU to play an mp3 :)
[16:51] <Azelphur> TF2 runs on the open source radeon drivers, this is pretty awesome.
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and intel drivers?
[16:52] <ali1234> yes, yes it is
[16:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: don't have any intel devices
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: heathen! ;)
[16:52] <Azelphur> xD
[16:53] <Azelphur> native TF2 makes me very tempted to sell my 570 + 630 and go for a radeon with eyefinity
[16:53] <ali1234> yeah i heard it's way better for multiple monitors
[16:54] <Azelphur> indeed, nvidia deliberately bricks the drivers
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> does nvidia still not do xrandr?
[16:54] <Azelphur> 302+ does afaik
[16:55] <Aivaras> no
[16:55] <Aivaras> 304.48 and xrandr don't work.
[16:55]  * Azelphur shrugs
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> because with xrandr, they can't keep showing you their logo in their own tool
[16:56] <Aivaras> What I hate about nvidia driver is that I can't plug ext screen without restarting xorg
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> you can
[16:57] <Aivaras> how?
[16:57] <ali1234> nvidia-settings
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> Plug in the screen, configure it, restart X,
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> disconnect screen
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> reconnect screen
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> no more X restarts required :)
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> and that
[16:58] <Aivaras> and then you disconect screen you have space you can't see where all the windows goes to :D
[16:59] <Aivaras> my sound seams to be working now :D
[17:01] <Aivaras> It seams that problems starts then I run out of ram.
[17:06] <ali1234> yeah memory exhaustion really hurts performance
[17:06] <ali1234> specifically swap i/o
[17:07] <ali1234> if you put 16GB of ram in a machine ubuntu will fly and after most of / gets cached you'll have still about 4GB free
[17:07] <ali1234> but any swapping at all basically stops all other processes
[17:08] <Aivaras> Now I have 3GB and most of the time none of them are free :D
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> Q/ can I force a vidoe mode in Ubunty?
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> [reason: trying to fully use a KVM switch to swap pooter monitor & tv - doing this causes wrong video on pooter monitor but correct option not available]
[17:22] <ali1234> sure
[17:22] <ali1234> just set modelines in xorg.conf
[17:23] <ali1234> your problem happens because kvm blocks monitor edid
[17:23] <SuperEngineer> whooppeee!  thanks ali1234
[17:24]  * SuperEngineer goes hunting & tyoing in xorg.conf
[17:25] <SuperEngineer> [& especially appreciates knowing the reason why it was failing!]
[17:26] <Aivaras> can 5 years old HDD (2.5", 250GB) maximux reading speed be ~60MB/s or that indicates problem?
[17:33] <popey> evening
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1365510/ so where / what should i be adding
[17:37]  * SuperEngineer waves evening backatya popey
[17:37] <ali1234> you probably want to manually specify refresh rates instead
[17:38] <ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973
[17:39] <SuperEngineer> in the file or in monitor settings?
[17:39]  * SuperEngineer looks at thread
[17:41] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: thanks for that
[18:18] <DJones> Has anybody come across this firm before www.ashadegreener.co.uk ? Offers free solar panels, you get free electricty during the day (if the sun is out I assume), they get to keep the government incentives, up to 25 year contracts, they pay the cost of the panels, doesn't seem to be a scam, featured on watchdog as a good example
[18:45] <soreau> DJones: So they're just taking full advantage of the government incentive to profit while not actually charging the consumer? (but instead benefiting them by giving them free electricity..)
[18:46] <DJones> thats how i read it
[18:47] <soreau> Seems kinda like they're robbing the power company.. (at least from the power companies POV)
[18:47] <soreau> DJones: That's cool. Is there anything like this in .us you know of?
[18:48] <DJones> Not really robbing the power company, any excess electricity generated is fed back into the system and the power company doesn't end up providing the homeowner with electricity
[18:48] <DJones> No idea about the US schemes
[18:49] <soreau> Looks like they're installation area is fairly limited http://ashadegreener.co.uk/install-area/
[18:49] <soreau> sounds legit, I'd definitely look into it if I owned a home in that area
[18:49] <soreau> DJones: nice find, everyone loves free money ;)
[18:51] <penguin42> surely there's no sunlight in Barnsley
[18:51] <soreau> ah, so that's the catch
[18:56] <soreau> DJones: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/30/free-solar-panels-not-bargain
[19:00] <DJones> That assumes you have the £10-£20K cost of having your own panels fitted though
[19:03] <AlanBell> extend the mortgage to cover it
[19:03] <AlanBell> don't think I have enough south facing roof
[19:04] <DJones> Its my parents looking at it, they have a double fronted house which has masses of south facing roof
[19:06] <penguin42> DJones: I think I'd check whether there are any insurance issues before doing it
[19:07] <penguin42> DJones: And also what happens if you want to sell
[19:07] <DJones> Yeah, looked at that, they insure it and if you sell the house, the owner takes over getting the benefit
[19:08] <penguin42> DJones: What happens if they go under?
[19:09] <DJones> Probably somebody buys the assets & takes over getting the governement grants, if nobody buys them out, you get to keep the panels
[19:10] <penguin42> do the panels belong to them? If so do they have the right to remove them (if they were going under) and would they have to pay to return the roof to good condition
[19:11] <DJones> I presume the panels belong to them, doubt they could remove them though
[19:11] <ali1234> yeah, the feed-in tariff basically is robbing the power company
[19:12] <ali1234> they are paying like 300% the going rate for the power
[19:12] <ali1234> that's why it's better to buy your own panels
[19:12] <penguin42> ali1234: Well, more the tax payers
[19:12] <ali1234> the feed in tariff is worth 3x the electricity you pay for
[19:13] <ali1234> no, not the tax payers - all the other customers of the power company
[19:14] <penguin42> ali1234: There are some reports from Germany that solar helped reduce some of the peaks during the day, it's possible those would be the most expensive points when the power company would have to buy power (not sure if it works like that for them?)
[19:14] <ali1234> of course not
[19:14] <ali1234> they buy power several months in advance
[19:15] <penguin42> ali1234: But there is hour-by-hour trading of power
[19:15] <ali1234> yes, but that's power that was already bought several months earlier
[19:15] <penguin42> oh
[19:16] <ali1234> what happens is all the power companies guess how much power they will need in 6 months time
[19:16] <ali1234> if they guess too low they go to one of the other power companies and buy some power from them
[19:17] <penguin42> ali1234: But if they have feed in allocated to them does that mean they have less chance of having to buy from others?
[19:17] <ali1234> so day-to-day fluctuations basically cancel out across the wider network
[19:18] <ali1234> no, because again, they have to predict roughly how much they need 6 months in advance
[19:18] <ali1234> so they take into account feed in
[19:18] <penguin42> ah
[19:18] <ali1234> their estimates are not wrong by a huge amount
[19:18] <ali1234> one day they might be over capacity, another day, under
[19:19] <ali1234> so today they are buying power, tomorrow selling it
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> WHAT POWER CO'S DON'T FACTOR IN IS COST OF RECOVERY IN CASE OF NATIONAL DISATER
[19:19] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Shhh!
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> sorry for the shouting... didn't realise caps lock stilll on
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> me bad
[19:20] <ali1234> the thing is that the feed-in tariff is about 3x what the end user would pay for the same amount of electricity and the power co. has to buy it whether they need it or not
[19:21] <AlanBell> hmm
[19:21]  * AlanBell checks
[19:21] <AlanBell> southern electric standard rate is 13.42p per kWh
[19:21] <ali1234> so if you have enough solar panels to generate 1/3 of the electricity you use, getting free panels and free electricity is actually a bad deal in the long run
[19:22] <ali1234> i don't know if it's really 3x :)
[19:22] <ali1234> but it's certainly an extremely bad deal for the power co.
[19:22] <AlanBell> FiT floor price for new solar PV export tarriff (the bit the electricity company has to buy) is 4.5p /kWh
[19:23]  * SuperEngineer ponders enhancement to xchat... warn when about to send in caps ;)
[19:24] <AlanBell> FiT generation tarrif for solar PV is around 14p/kWh
[19:25] <AlanBell> so the "feed in" bit that the power company pays for is a decent deal for the power company (might not be a great deal, but it is less than they sell it for)
[19:25] <penguin42> AlanBell: to be fair that's standard rate you're comparing again
[19:25] <AlanBell> the generation tariff is not paid by the power company
[19:26] <ali1234> solar PV can get you up to 45p/kWh
[19:26] <AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/eligible/levels/
[19:26] <ali1234> that's if you have a new install today
[19:26] <ali1234> if you;ve had it for a year the rates are much higher
[19:27] <AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/export/
[19:27] <ali1234> remember... there was a court case about it, because the new government wanted to drasticly cut the whole plan
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> slightly aside - but somthing I've always wondered: what would be the cost of power supply via your own diesel generator?
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> [apart from "variable"]
[19:28] <AlanBell> the question is, who pays the generation tariff?
[19:29] <ali1234> good question
[19:29] <ali1234> SuperEngineer: "a modern diesel plant will consume between 0.28 and 0.4 litres of fuel per kilowatt hour"
[19:30] <ali1234> so about 40p/kWh
[19:30] <SuperEngineer> hmmm
[19:30] <ali1234> assuming diesel costs £1-£1.50
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> ...& if one made one's own diesel? ;)
[19:32] <ali1234> a good diesel generator doesn't need much maintenance
[19:32] <ali1234> BUT you have to get a big one to get the efficiency
[19:32] <ali1234> and they are loud too
[19:32] <ali1234> basically you need a small building to put it in
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> [when the land outside your place is full of sheep - that may not be difficult]
[19:35] <ali1234> yeah, it would probably work if you live on a farm
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> [not on a farm - but by a farm - so ground cost would be a one off "extra cost"]
[19:37] <AlanBell> looks like the electricity company has to pay the generation tariff as well as the export tariff (the feed-in part)
[19:37] <AlanBell> and yes, they just screw over the other customers to get the money
[19:38] <Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nwfxx/Sound_It_Out/ worth a watch
[19:38] <SuperEngineer> Laney: a Rolex or a Timex?
[19:40] <Aivaras> Casio. :D
[19:47] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:48] <AlanBell> evening
[19:49] <Pendulum> hiya
[19:50] <czajkowski> am knackered
[19:50] <czajkowski> poxy traffic
[19:51] <AlanBell> have you been driving in it?
[19:51] <SuperEngineer> a thought: with the news that microdaft is killing MSN next year & moving to Skype only...
[19:52] <SuperEngineer> I need MSN for contact with cancer impaired releative [therefore no phone call -text only] is Skype on ubuntu ready for simple text only conversations [msn style]?
[19:52] <AlanBell> skype works fine for text chatting (never used MSN so I don't know what MSN style is)
[19:52] <AlanBell> I know what gangnam style is if that helps?
[19:52] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye we got a zip car for the day and went down to drop off one of J motorbikes
[19:53] <czajkowski> and drove a BMW 3 series for the day as I'd not been in one and he's just bought one
[19:53] <czajkowski> may not be delivered till January :(
[19:55] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: text chat is the bit concerning me... forget the "msn style" bit.  Thanks [& I want a video of AlanBell doing Gangnam Style pretty please!!!]
[19:55] <AlanBell> not. going. to. happen.
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> darn
[19:57] <ali1234> skype works more or less perfectly
[19:58] <ali1234> well, there are a few problems but they all have fixes
[19:58] <ali1234> and it's mainly problems with audio/video
[19:58]  * AlanBell notes Sam Spilsbury joining https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
[19:59] <christel> AlanBell gangnam style. i'd pay to see that.
[19:59] <SuperEngineer> +1
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> next u-uk podcast?
[20:00] <christel> christmas special - video edition? :D
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> [seems I have started a wish list here]
[20:01] <SuperEngineer> let's all beg
[20:02] <SuperEngineer> ...£££'s to children in need foe AlanBell doing Gangnam?
[20:02] <SuperEngineer> ...or £££'sx2 for popey doing the same with him
[20:03]  * AlanBell thinks christel and SuperEngineer are way too keen on this idea
[20:03] <AlanBell> and there should be a christel and SuperEngineer gangnam video
[20:03]  * SuperEngineer imagines both now muttering/swearing under their breath
[20:05] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: It would, however, make a lovely title for next podcast
[20:06] <christel> :o
[20:11] <AlanBell> maybe one day I will do a podcast
[20:11] <christel> with bells?
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> christel: nah, he just whistles
[20:14] <AlanBell> with chickens
[20:14] <AlanBell> and free software
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> (this is illegal in most counties)
[20:14] <penguin42> AlanBell: Chickens doing gangnam style?
[20:15] <AlanBell> dunno if podcasts are still the thing or if you have to do video these days
[20:15] <AlanBell> google hangoutcasts
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> you can do both
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> I'm subscribed to a few podcasts that have both an audio version and a youtube channel where you can see people talking into microphones..
[20:16] <christel> chickens doing gangnam style! love it :D
[20:17] <ali1234> has anyone done like a linux call-in podcast? like rush limbaugh of open source?
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> Ubuntu-
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> Lugradio's voicemail section?
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> podcast next title...
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> we do it GangNamStle ;)
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> with video
[20:18] <AlanBell> that might work
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPlkFPowCc
[20:18]  * SuperEngineer watches
[20:19]  * AlanBell thinks that chap is confused about the gender of his chicken
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytSNlHw8J8 ?
[20:21] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc&list=UU_6WXjvHxBEChRjA-ch9a7g&index=17&feature=plcp
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: chickens with feedback loops?
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes!
[20:22] <AlanBell> ah, that one is a boy
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> & yes, he is confused
[20:23] <ali1234> i'm never sure whether to feel bad for kubuntu developers or the chickens :/
[20:24] <AlanBell> they are on Ubuntu Server now
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> CD or DVD?
[20:25] <AlanBell> CD
[20:25] <Daviey> Good to see AlanBell embracing the cloud.
[20:26] <AlanBell> the chickens like Maize as a Service
[20:26] <SuperEngineer> going back to the chicken vid.... don't know who was more scary: the chick in the foreground ...or the chick in the background! ;)
[20:27] <penguin42> a serving of chicken with open source
[20:36] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: see my tweet of -sevveral- months ago! "I have a bottle of tomato ketchup I was given & it's got no lid. It's ok, it's free & open sauce ;)"
[21:10] <popey> Myrtti, what is possuvarrasta ?
[21:12] <Laney> I wonder why my UDS yubikey is ...
[21:12] <Laney> any guesses?
[21:13]  * popey guesses Laney means "where"
[21:13] <popey> in the ubuntu bag?
[21:13] <Laney> why it is missing? :P
[21:13] <Laney> the ubuntu bag now contains a sleeping bag, but could be
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> maybe airport security has it?
[21:14] <Laney> just found a cache of ubuntu + linaro pens
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> Tonight.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0078pw1
[21:17] <Laney> yay found it
[21:17] <Laney> safely tucked inside a pile of letter
[21:17] <Laney> s
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> I love how they put Night of the Living Dead on after 3 hours of Rolling Stones
[21:24] <Aivaras> Is 50MB/s read speed for 5 years old laptop hdd is indication of problem or it's normal state?
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> sounds normal enough
[21:24] <penguin42> yeh
[21:24] <Aivaras> oh, then it totaly sucks compared to new WD
[21:25] <penguin42> Aivaras: Welcome to progress
[21:25] <Aivaras> I was thinking that HDDs are progresing only by capacity and speed is similar.
[21:26] <Aivaras> Now I have 100 vs 50. :D
[21:26] <penguin42> Aivaras: As you up the density in the same space you get more data each time it spins
[21:26] <penguin42> Aivaras: also newer drives tend to spin a bit faster (* may not be true on laptop)
[21:27] <Aivaras> penguin42: they are 5400 RPM, while some are 7200
[21:28] <penguin42> nod
[21:28] <daftykins> what penguin42 said, aerial density increase is a speed boost
[21:28] <Aivaras> and some _server's_ hdds are 10.000 RPM
[21:28] <penguin42> Aivaras: some are 15k
[21:28] <daftykins> and consumer
[21:28] <daftykins> my VMs on my desktop here run off a 10,000rpm 300GB WD velociraptor
[21:29] <penguin42> Aivaras: However, if you don't need a very large one, treat yourself to an SSD - they're much faster
[21:29] <Aivaras> Yeah, I know. I will get one for new laptop. Old one is lucky enoth to have 750GB + 250GB HDDs :D
[21:29] <daftykins> SSDs for the OS and software, backed by large capacity mechanical drives is the way to go
[21:30] <penguin42> nod
[21:30] <Aivaras> btw guys, would sony vaio E14 wold be bad option?
[21:31] <daftykins> for what?
[21:31] <daftykins> got a link?
[21:32] <Aivaras> HECHJZ
[21:32] <Aivaras> sorry
[21:33] <Aivaras> http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vaio-e-series
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: gesundheit?
[21:33] <Aivaras> press see all
[21:33] <daftykins> ah, the word is 'areal' density
[21:33] <daftykins> my bad
[21:34] <daftykins> Aivaras: cheapest model? and what would the laptop be used for?
[21:34] <Aivaras> I am thinkig about one with i5, 1600x900 sceen and no GPU
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: Intel GPU, I guess then?
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> built into the CPU
[21:35] <penguin42> Aivaras: Stuff that uses Intel onboard CPU generally works well
[21:35] <Aivaras> yeah. I ment no ext gpu.
[21:36] <penguin42> Aivaras: Only laptops I know to stay away from Ubuntu at the moment are the newer Samsung's - they've got a really nasty EFI bug with Ubuntu - which is a shame because I like Sammy
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: the Chromebook is nice :)
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> even though it's ARM-based
[21:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: True
[21:36] <Aivaras> my old samsung works crappy with new ubuntu
[21:36] <daftykins> penguin42: prevents install / boot?
[21:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's just a bug on their EFI x86 ones recently; it completely bricks them
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> it's a bit wobbly (resting it on my knee sometimes auto-presses the mouse pad/button while I'm typing)
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I had a bricked EFI Dell a few weeks ago.. couldn't even get through POST to get into setup anymore
[21:37] <penguin42> daftykins: bug 1040557
[21:37] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: nasty, what caused the brick?
[21:37] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you know how you did that?
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Setting it to boot from UEFI in the BIOS
[21:37] <Aivaras> While it worked well from like 7.10 till 10.04. Now it sucks :D
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: or whatever it's all called now :)
[21:37] <daftykins> crikey
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> the pre-boot config thing
[21:38] <daftykins> can't you just boot the normal style?
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> you couldn't tell it to
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> and resetting the BIOS (shorting the mainboard pins) didn't help either
[21:38] <daftykins> ah, they started chopping that option off already eh?
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> good thing it was a work PC, just send back to dell and get a new one
[21:38] <daftykins> is that a new enough machine to be affected by all the secure boot jazz too?
[21:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: a lot of the BIOS EFI oimplementations look very very broken
[21:39] <penguin42> daftykins: These failings tend not to be secure boot problems
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: well I could have told it to boot old-style.. but the boot process crashed before giving the option
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> halfway through showing the Dell logo(!!)
[21:40] <daftykins> wowzer
[21:40] <ali1234> 1. buy 1000 laptops
[21:40] <ali1234> 2. brick them all
[21:40] <ali1234> 3. return for refund
[21:40] <penguin42> 4. wait 6 months
[21:40] <penguin42> 5. goto 1
[21:40] <ali1234> 4. trollface... yeah!
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> the next one I got (same model) worked
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> maybe it was just a buggy firmware revision
[21:41] <ali1234> probably
[21:42] <ali1234> and i bet there was a way to fix it anyway
[21:42] <ali1234> i repaired a few "bricked" acers before
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably.. but I don't know all the magic keystrokes for resetting Dells :)
[21:42] <daftykins> maybe just an update, or disabling the support as one of those bug posts says (granted, not the Dell, but anyway)
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I spent half an hour on this one
[21:42] <ali1234> normally you make a fat flash drive and put bios image on it then boot while holding a special key combo
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it wouldn't even get through POST
[21:43] <ali1234> doesn't matter
[21:43] <ali1234> neither did the acers
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> oh it's lower-level than that even?
[21:43] <ali1234> sure
[21:44] <ali1234> it's bad-bios-flash recovery
[21:44] <daftykins> if it's key-combo style yeah it won't need POST
[21:44] <ali1234> you don't even see anything on the screen
[21:45] <ali1234> i think it just makes it load the bios image directly to ram, and then it auto-self-repairs
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> hardcore :)
[21:45] <penguin42> yeh, I mean it depends just where the bug is and that's pot luck; if it's early enough even that's not going to work
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> I figured I'd have to flash the BIOS using SPI or JTAG
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> I've unbricked routers with those :)
[21:48] <ali1234> every computer should have a backup system in mask rom
[21:48] <ali1234> if it doesn't it's trash
[21:51] <daftykins> doesn't that require a larger chip that puts board prices up? guess such costs are negligible now?
[21:51] <ali1234> no
[21:51] <ali1234> put it in the motherboard chipset
[21:51] <ali1234> even fake chinese ipod have this
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't have to be fancy.. just recovery-mode
[21:55] <ali1234> it can be done in under 1kb...
[21:56] <ali1234> possibly not on x86-asm though
[21:56] <ali1234> maybe 2kb there...
[21:58] <Aivaras> still chips with kbs of memmory are cheap
[22:00] <ali1234> you probably pay more for the programmer who actually knows how to write x86-asm, than for the total extra hardware cost for all the units you sell
[22:01] <daftykins> i wonder how most motherboards are implementing their 'crashfree BIOS' type setups, since nobody needs gigabyte's crazy dual-BIOS chip implementation :D
[22:02] <ali1234> the dual bios thing is great cos you can pull the chip from a bad board and plug it into the second bios slot to reflash it
[22:02] <ali1234> i keep a old gigabyte board around for this reason
[22:03] <daftykins> that should be less and less likely now though, i'd hope
[22:03] <ali1234> yeah
[22:03] <ali1234> plus most bios are soldered to the board anyway these days
[22:03] <daftykins> due to whatever it is the companies are up to
[22:03] <daftykins> aww :(
[22:04] <amoun> irc.hackthissite.org/6667
[22:04] <daftykins> ?
[22:52] <andylockran> hey all
[22:52] <andylockran> has anyone had experience with using a mobile framework (sencha/cordova/phonegap .etc) - and any recommendations?
[23:37] <^jelly^> hello :)
[23:38] <andylockran> hi


[00:59] <ir8> Hello I have a few question about hardware and where can i get a list of supported hardware.
[04:11] <mrhanky> ok guys i need some help
[04:11] <mrhanky> uhm.. i have a server ubuntu server
[04:11] <mrhanky> and i have a backup server with ubuntu server
[04:11] <mrhanky> it backs up my main server every morn at 6am
[04:12] <mrhanky> now, i want to save on energy
[04:12] <mrhanky> so can i make my backup server hibernate, then make my main server tell it to wake up?
[04:12] <mrhanky> is that possible?
[04:12] <mrhanky> id really like to know :)
[04:12] <iRRV1> WOL?
[04:12] <mrhanky> WOL? uhm not sure what that is
[04:13] <iRRV1> i dont know much about WOL (Wake On Lan) but sounds like what you would want
[04:13] <mrhanky> oohhh
[04:13] <mrhanky> yeah that is
[04:13] <mrhanky> do you know of a tutorial or something?
[04:13] <mrhanky> :)
[04:13] <iRRV1> i think it differs bios-to-bios
[04:14] <iRRV1> but i have never done it and know next to nothing about it
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> you need something that can send custom icmp packets to the powered off system
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> and a bios that supports wol.
[04:14] <mrhanky> i can do that
[04:15] <mrhanky> let me see if my bois does... i have 3 backup server candidates so im sure one of them does! :)
[04:15] <mrhanky> thanks guys! :D
[04:15] <iRRV1> np
[04:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> gl
[04:25] <iRRV1> im still deciding what kind of a game i should host on my server (originally was gunna be a MUD...then i wanted to do some sort of something that would actually get users...) ...any suggestions?
[04:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> dont knock mud players ;P
[04:26] <iRRV1> im not
[04:26] <iRRV1> just saying theres too many good muds out there and im coming in too late in the game to get any users
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> guess the amount of bandwidht you have to your server affects what you want to runon it
[04:27] <iRRV1> 300 Mb/month iirc
[04:28] <iRRV1> errr....
[04:28] <iRRV1> that sounded pretty low...good thing its 300 Gb/month
[04:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> ;)
[04:29] <iRRV1> but its a cheap vps so its likie 256 MB ram and 10 gigs hdd and such
[04:32] <iRRV1> and i mean if i could get any builders to help me with my MUD i would stay at it...but i've been working at this for about a week or 2 and only got a fraction of a city
[04:32] <iRRV1> well...probably a week
[04:33] <iRRV1> (and i'll shutup if this is too offtopic, btw)
[04:35] <iRRV1> but if anyone has any suggestions for what to run on my server, they would be much appreciated (and yes, it is a ubuntu server :D)
[04:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> shouldnt you get an idea before a server ? :P
[04:36] <iRRV1> i had one
[04:37] <iRRV1> then i after i got the server, i had a realization
[04:38] <iRRV1> so im running a MUD server and a crossfire server on there currently...but im prolly gunna take em both down if i can get a half decent idea for a server
[11:04]  * delcoyote hi
[14:17] <mindframe> is it possible to control access to usb devices in linux?  example: I want to block all USB IDs except for 046d:c51a
[15:51] <sergevn> mindframe: this can be done in udev
[15:51] <sergevn> mindframe: look in /etc/udev/rules.d
[15:52] <sergevn> mindframe: been a while since I played with that, there is good documentation about this on https://wiki.ubuntu.com and https://help.ubuntu.com
[17:45] <ZeeshanQ> hey
[17:45] <ZeeshanQ> can anyone suggest me a book to start linux from the command line
[18:54] <AtomicSpark> is there anyway to easily search for and delete a file in a bunch of folders without manually deleting each one?
[18:54] <nxvl> find?
[18:54] <AtomicSpark> nvm. i figured out i can search the mounted folder. :P
[18:55] <AtomicSpark> that was quick.
[18:55] <nxvl> bash scripting is always cool
[18:55] <AtomicSpark> i'm getting rid of all the thumbs.db. silly windows files.
[18:56] <AtomicSpark> have you worked with samba at all?
[18:58] <nxvl> yep
[19:00] <AtomicSpark> i have this weird inconsistency with my samba share. right now i'm just sharing a users home as one main collection of files. i can manually type in the address. smb://server/username
[19:00] <AtomicSpark> but when i try to find it via the network option in ubuntu it just has two shares on it. homes and print$
[19:01] <AtomicSpark> homes doesnt mount. i'm thinking it might either be configured wrong or its trying to use the user name i'm logged into on the local machine
[19:09] <AtomicSpark> hmm. now my workgroup is empty. smb protocol is very random. even on windows.
[20:01] <sommer_> ScottK: just an fyi, I got a notice from LP saying I'm about to expire from the clamav team :(
[21:09] <thenewguy> how secure is Ubuntu server? if i put a stock Ubuntu box on the web with LAMP how safe am i? i will have it behind a Hardware firewall
[21:10] <ivoks> you'll have only http port open to the public
[21:10] <ivoks> fwiw, php is patched with suhosin patch from http://www.hardened-php.net/
[21:14] <Nafallo> if the P is PHP, you are as secure as your applications ;-)
[21:14] <ivoks> right
[21:14] <ivoks> and you can apply that rule to any other language
[21:15] <Nafallo> yepp. but there is only one language I mistrust on principle ;-)
[21:15] <Nafallo> anyway. lets not get into that discussion :-)
[21:15] <ivoks> Nafallo: i agree with you, but when you think of it... most of the problems are really aplication based
[21:16] <Nafallo> yepp :-)
[21:16] <ivoks> php is, kind of, proof of concept, but, to be honest, it isn't much worse than other languages
[21:17] <Nafallo> its widely popular, so of course it gets more CANs
[21:17] <ivoks> right...
[21:17] <ivoks> meh... long night in front of me...
[21:18] <ivoks> i'll convert dbmail into dovecot...
[21:18] <Nafallo> :-)
[21:22] <ivoks> it would be great to have mod_security in apache, by default
[21:22] <ivoks> too bad mod_security is still gpl2
[21:24] <ivoks> o! o! changes!
[21:24] <ivoks> http://blog.modsecurity.org/2008/06/modsecurity-lic.html
[21:28] <AtomicSpark> ivoks, yay?
[21:28] <ivoks> AtomicSpark: yay? :)
[21:29] <AtomicSpark> ivoks, yes.
[21:32] <nxvl> ivoks: woooho!
[21:57] <ScottK> sommer_: You should be able to renew yourself.  Let me know if you can't.
[21:58] <sommer_> ScottK: cool, thanks
[21:58] <nxvl> ScottK: hi!
[21:58] <ScottK> Hello nxvl.
[21:58] <nxvl> ScottK: how are you!
[21:58] <ScottK> Good, but busy.
[21:58] <nxvl> ScottK: everything is going fine
[21:58] <nxvl> yeah, same here
[21:58] <ScottK> (which explains why I haven't signed your GPG key among other things)
[21:58] <nxvl> this days are really busy
[21:58] <nxvl> :D
[21:59] <nxvl> well i was going to ask you something, but, don't mind
[21:59] <nxvl> :P
[21:59] <ScottK> If it's a quick question, go ahead.
[21:59] <ScottK> nxvl: ^^
[21:59] <nxvl> well
[21:59] <ScottK> Is anyone here actually running dovecot for sasl with Postfix?
[22:00] <nxvl> it's a not short time demanding thing
[22:00] <ScottK> Not even the asking?
[22:00] <nxvl> so nevermind
[22:00] <nxvl> :D
[22:00] <nxvl> well
[22:00] <nxvl> i was going to ask you to review augeas
[22:00] <nxvl> :P
[22:00] <ScottK> Ah.
[22:00] <ScottK> Probably not today.
[22:00] <nxvl> and it's not a simple package
[22:01] <nxvl> is a multiple binary + library one
[22:01] <ScottK> My suggestion would be ask sistpoty to do it.  He's really good on library packaging.
[22:01] <nxvl> but doesn't mind, if you find some time i will be really grateful if you took a look, even a quick one :D
[22:02] <nxvl> ScottK: thanks! i will
[22:02]  * ScottK adds it TODO.
[22:03] <ScottK> sommer_: Are you using Postfix with Dovecot for SASL?
[22:04] <nxvl> sommer_: can you please test augeas i need some sysadmins opinions on it
[22:04] <nxvl> sommer_: it has some test cases on the web page, and a test environment
[22:04] <nxvl> sommer_: so if you have time, please test it and send me some feedback
[22:26] <shelbyscates> hey guys i have an old dell running ubuntu server dapper drake and im setting up wake from lan, and now that i have it installed, i cant figure out for the life of me how to get my system to hibernate from the command line! HELP PLUZE :D
[22:32] <shelbyscates> hulp? pleexx?
[22:32] <shelbyscates> D':
[22:34] <FanBoyUK> shelbyscates: im here to help
[22:34] <FanBoyUK> shelbyscates: its okay, IM FROM THE INTERNETS
[22:41] <shelbyscates> FanBoyUK: LMAO
[22:41] <shelbyscates> so yeah
[22:41] <shelbyscates> can someone pleez help mah?
[22:41] <shelbyscates> hey guys i have an old dell running ubuntu server dapper drake and im setting up wake from lan, and now that i have it installed, i cant figure out for the life of me how to get my system to hibernate from the command line! HELP PLUZE :D
[22:42] <shelbyscates> seriously though, i need serious help
[22:42] <shelbyscates> D:
[22:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> then be patient
[22:45] <shelbyscates> ok :)
[22:45] <specialKevin> shelbyscates: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=813387
[22:45] <specialKevin> that might be of some help
[22:48] <Insomnia1ity> shelbyscates: 22:34:47 - FanBoyUK<EMAIL_ADDRESS>left #ubuntu-server ()
[23:04] <zul> nxvl: you pinged me a while ago?
[23:05] <nxvl> zul: yep, don't remember why
[23:06] <zul> nxvl: k
[23:54] <shelbyscates> thanks guys


[00:05] <TDJACR> How does launchpad implement bazaar commit control?
[00:06] <lifeless> each user has their own file space
[00:06] <TDJACR> I mean, how does bzr+ssh:// only allow you to modify certain branches and stuff
[00:07] <wgrant> It's a custom SSH server.
[00:07] <TDJACR> Oh
[00:07] <TDJACR> Is is, like launchpad, F/OSS?
[00:07] <wgrant> It is
[00:07] <spiv> Yes.
[00:07] <TDJACR> Cool.
[00:07] <wgrant> See lib/lp/codehosting in the LP tree.
[00:08] <TDJACR> I was wondering how bzr+ssh limited what a user could do with ssh.
[00:08] <spiv> Although probably Launchpad could probably use OpenSSH if it didn't need to support sftp and using the Launchpad DB to get the public key(s) for a user.
[00:09] <spiv> Because apart from those things the bulk of the access control is done in a bzr plugin.
[00:09] <TDJACR> Which?
[00:10] <spiv> A custom one :)  It's in Launchpad's source somewhere.
[00:10] <TDJACR> For example, if I only wanted jim and bob to be able to commit to my server, but not execute any other command, how would I do that?
[00:11] <spiv> With OpenSSH, you can create an authorized_keys file on the server that restricts a user that auths with a particular key to only running a particular command.
[00:11] <TDJACR> spiv: So would I make that comman bzr?
[00:11] <spiv> There's even a helper script in bzr's source tree for that, just a sec.
[00:12] <spiv> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/annotate/head%3A/contrib/bzr_ssh_path_limiter
[00:12] <TDJACR> spiv: Thanks so much!
[00:12] <spiv> (there's also a much more complex bzr_access script in that contrib directory)
[00:13] <TDJACR> spiv: But that one would make a protected SSH bzr smart server, correcy?
[00:13] <TDJACR> t
[00:13] <spiv> Depending on what you mean by "protected", yes.
[00:14] <TDJACR> spiv: Users can't log on and execute irssi
[00:14] <spiv> Right.
[00:14] <spiv> Assuming they authenticate to that account with that key.
[00:14] <TDJACR> spiv: How would I control which branches they may  commit to
[00:14] <spiv> So you'd want to turn off password auth, or make the account have no password.
[00:15] <spiv> Use filesytem permissions.
[00:15] <TDJACR> spiv: So I ocould add the user to a group.
[00:15] <TDJACR> Sounds good.
[00:15] <TDJACR> Thanks so much
[00:15] <spiv> And/or use the argument that bzr_ssh_path_limiter takes
[00:16] <spiv> In the example it gives, command="bzr_ssh_path_limiter /home/foo/code" ..., the client won't be able to access any bzr data outside /home/foo/code
[00:17] <TDJACR> spiv: But I could make two branches in it, correct?
[00:17] <TDJACR> And limit them with fs permissions?
[00:18] <spiv> Right.
[00:18] <TDJACR> Sounds awesome, thank you.
[01:57] <bp0> hello
[01:58] <bp0> what is the difference between https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tvtime and https://bugs.launchpad.net/tvtime
[01:59] <micahg> bp0: one is the upstream project and one is the ubuntu package
[01:59] <bp0> how are they used differently
[02:00] <bp0> what is different about the bugs that are reported for each one
[02:01] <bp0> ?
[02:05] <micahg> bp0: bugs for the ubuntu package are reported against the package
[02:06] <micahg> tvtime actually uses sourceforge for bug tracking
[02:06] <micahg> but the launchpad project would list bugs linked to sourceforge
[02:08] <bp0> so where should that bug about ekiga killing sound in tvtime be reported?
[02:09] <micahg> it needs to be triaged in Ubuntu most likely
[02:10] <micahg> bp0: did you add all those tasks?
[02:10] <micahg> and are you experiencing the issue?
[02:11] <bp0> yeah
[02:11] <bp0> i was trying to get it listed with the others
[02:11] <micahg> bp0: are you using Ubuntu?
[02:11] <bp0> now, i think i've figured out how
[02:11] <bp0> not this moment
[02:13] <micahg> well, if you're not using Ubuntu, then sourceforge would be the place to file your bug
[02:13] <micahg> with tvtime
[02:14] <bp0> oh, yeah, i am using ubuntu
[02:14] <bp0> but not this moment
[02:14] <bp0> so i couldnt test anything right now if you asked
[02:14] <micahg> ok, then I suggest hoping in #ubuntu-bugs sometime tomorrow and hopefully someone can triage it for you
[02:14] <micahg> *hopping
[02:15] <micahg> I don't know enough about tvtime to do it right now
[03:16] <rasiq> bug notify - urgent - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/460121
[03:18] <micahg> rasiq: the place for this would be #ubuntu-bugs
[03:19] <rasiq> thanks micahg..
[03:19] <rasiq> will post there.. bye..
[03:40] <lifeless> hmm
[03:41] <lifeless> LP apis seem to write to world readable dirs their credentials
[03:41] <lifeless> [sigh]
[04:14] <TDJACR> How does launchpad automatically add pushes to the working tree?
[04:19] <spiv> TDJACR: it doesn't; it runs loggerhead
[04:20] <spiv> (which is a web viewer for bzr branches)
[04:34] <meoblast001> hi
[04:34] <meoblast001> how long is the downtime expected to be for?
[04:35] <meoblast001> is this a major server change, or just a minor one
[04:35] <spm> meoblast001: heh. timing. Shortly hopefully.
[04:35] <meoblast001> ok, i have some code i was going to push, and i'm getting tired
[04:35] <meoblast001> i was wondering if i should wait or go to bed and push tomorrow
[04:36] <meoblast001> well, i do have a small amount of studying to do, so i will be awake for probably 15 more minutes anyways
[04:47] <meoblast001> spm: it's back up
[04:47] <meoblast001> at least the bazaar server is
[06:12] <al-maisan> Good morning
[06:12] <motionman> good morning :)
[07:53] <mdke> when trying to set<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as the contact address for ~ubuntu-doc, I get this error<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with Registry Administrators." Any ideas?
[07:54]  * spiv wonders if kfogel really is the help contact still...
[07:56] <wgrant> mdke: Sounds like it might have been registered to a team that was merged away.
[07:56] <mdke> wgrant: could be
[07:57] <mdke> can't you have more than one team with the same contact address?
[07:57] <wgrant> mdke: I guess your best bet is to ask a Question to have it removed or transferred.
[07:57] <lifeless> mdke: you'll need to file a request for the admins
[07:57] <wgrant> No.
[07:57] <lifeless> mdke: email addresses have to be unique
[07:57] <mdke> that's a bit odd, I think
[07:57] <lifeless> mdke: also note that having a contact address means that users preferences for contacting, bug mail etc, all stop working.
[07:57] <lifeless> generally, I think its a terrible idea to set an external list as the contact details for an LPteam
[07:58] <wgrant> I think the current implementation of the team contact address idea is hugely flawed.
[07:58] <wgrant> And should be avoided wherever possible.
[07:58] <mdke> a good alternative for us would be to disable the "Contact this team" button
[07:59] <mdke> it's a PITA for all team members to get those emails individually rather than through the mailing list
[07:59] <wgrant> Note that that button is only available to team members.
[07:59] <mdke> we don't use that team for bugmail or branch subscriptions
[07:59] <wgrant> But it's still crazy that it's not disablable.
[07:59] <mdke> well, we get quite a few email from individuals interested in participating
[08:00] <mdke> actually I don't think they are all members
[08:00] <wgrant> They can only contact the admins, IIRC.
[08:01] <mdke> we had an email recently from ~efsc70, who isn't a member, and I think the whole team got it
[08:02] <wgrant> I only get a "Contact this team's owner" link.
[08:02] <mdke> ok, that one must have only gone to me then, I guess. it didn't say that in the email
[08:02] <mdke> the team gets them too sometimes though, I suspect it is people who join the open subteam, and then use it
[08:03] <mdke> it really would make sense for such emails to go to the mailing list, I feel
[08:03] <mdke> Launchpad even suggests using a mailing list in the interface (although it's referring to a LP mailing list)
[08:04] <mdke> anyway, for the original problem, do I open a question on the launchpad project?
[08:05] <wgrant> You do.
[08:05] <mdke> ok
[08:42] <lifeless> mwhudson: you wouldn't happen to know when merge requests via mail will work again?
[08:55] <slangasek> I wonder if it would be possible to prevent users from changing the state of the tasks on bug #368497, or lock it to a group somehow.
[08:59] <wgrant> slangasek: There is no such functionality.
[08:59] <slangasek> wgrant: then I wonder if the accounts of the people who are playing bug volleyball could be locked
[09:00] <wgrant> Bug #73122
[09:00] <lifeless> wow
[09:02]  * wgrant returns to messing with ddeb domination logic.
[09:02] <wgrant> Odd that that bug has been hit so many times.
[09:02] <lifeless> I think there is a good reason to have final states
[09:03] <lifeless> and a less crowd-approach for bugs
[09:03] <slangasek> wgrant: odd, but clearly not coincidental.  The bug was also given a nickname at one point, which I removed, hoping that would stem the flow of pointless state changes; someone, somewhere on the Internet, is telling other people this bug should be reopened
[09:04] <lifeless> have you googled for it ?
[09:04] <slangasek> yes
[09:04] <slangasek> didn't find anything except LP itself
[09:04] <wgrant> slangasek: But they weren't directly reopened.
[09:04] <slangasek> wgrant: how do you mean/
[09:04] <wgrant> Oh. Different tasks.
[09:04] <wgrant> I just saw lots of transitions in each block, which tended to indicate idiocy rather than malice.
[09:05] <wgrant> But I see now that they were for different tasks.
[09:05] <slangasek> I guess alternatively, I could unsubscribe ubuntu-sru from the bug and make it Not My Problem, but I figured I should at least /ask/ before abandoning the bug to chaos
[09:06] <slangasek> wgrant: I'm pretty sure it is idiocy rather than malice; if it were malice, why would they all be focused on a single bug instead of reopening bugs at random :)
[09:07] <wgrant> slangasek: By idiocy I meant accidental state changing, which does happen sometimes.
[09:07] <wgrant> But in that case it should hit other bugs.
[09:12] <micahg> wgrant: how often are merged branches hidden?
[09:12] <micahg> is it supposed to be instantaneous?
[09:13] <wgrant> micahg: As soon as the branch is scanned (that is within a couple of minutes, when the new revisions show up in LP)
[09:18] <micahg> wgrant: this branch isn;t showing as merged: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/prism/prism-1.0b2-karmic
[09:20] <micahg> or rather, it's not being hidden
[09:20] <wgrant> micahg: Ah, this mess...
[09:21] <wgrant> micahg: A branch's status is set to Merged automatically only when it is merged into a series branch.
[09:21] <wgrant> micahg: There are no series branches in that project.
[09:21] <micahg> ah
[09:21] <micahg> so I need to manually set it
[09:21] <wgrant> Right.
[09:21] <wgrant> This is unfortunate.
[09:22] <micahg> ok, I'll talk to someone about creating a series for it
[09:22] <micahg> should I file a bug?
[09:22] <micahg> for it not being marked merged
[09:22] <wgrant> It's not a bug.
[09:22] <wgrant> It wasn't merged, in that sense.
[09:22] <wgrant> So it should not be marked merge.
[09:22] <wgrant> +d
[09:22] <micahg> if you say so :)
[09:23] <wgrant> I believe people are rethinking how all that works.
[09:27] <micahg> does lp linking branches only work for official branches with bug #s?
[09:28] <wgrant> LP will automatically link any branch to bugs that are referenced properly (that is, a 'bzr ci --fixes lp:123456', not just a textual reference in a commit message).
[09:28] <micahg> ah
[09:28] <micahg> that's what I need to do
[09:29] <micahg> and if it's multiple bugs?
[09:30] <TDJACR> How does launchpad add all pushes to the mainline?
[09:30] <wgrant> micahg: I think something like '--fixes lp:123456 --fixes lp:234567'
[09:30] <TDJACR> Er, working tree
[09:30] <wgrant> TDJACR: How do you mean?
[09:30] <wgrant> LP doesn't keep working trees.
[09:30] <wgrant> As was explained this morning, it uses Loggerhead to provide a web UI to the branches.
[09:31] <TDJACR> Ah. How does it keep all pushes as the "working tree"
[09:32] <wgrant> I still don't understand what you mean.
[09:32] <wgrant> Lp doesn't deal with working trees.
[09:32] <TDJACR> When I bzr push ./ lp:myproj How does it become the files, in the directory.
[09:33] <spiv> TDJACR: you mean how is it that you can view the files in the branch via the web site?
[09:33] <TDJACR> If I push to my own server, I need to ssh into it and bzr update it
[09:33] <spiv> TDJACR: it uses loggerhead (https://launchpad.net/loggerhead0
[09:33] <wgrant> TDJACR: Loggerhead is a web application which looks at the branch (not the working tree) and displays the file listings and gives you files. They don't exist in a working tree on disk.
[09:33] <spiv> TDJACR: launchpad doesn't host any working trees
[09:34] <TDJACR> spiv: So, If I branched off of my server, I'd still get a working tree, but my server wouldn't have one?
[09:35] <spiv> TDJACR: yes
[09:36] <spiv> TDJACR: a working tree is where you can use a text editor etc to make changes that you can then "bzr commit".
[09:36] <TDJACR> When I push to my server I get This transport does not update the working tree of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:36] <TDJACR> But not when I push to LP
[09:37] <spiv> Launchpad is configured to not create working trees
[09:37] <lifeless> spiv: there is also that bug
[09:37] <wgrant> It will give you that message only if there is an existing working tree on the other end, IIRC.
[09:37] <lifeless> with a spurious message
[09:37] <spiv> You can create a shared repository on your server that does the same thing (bzr init-repo --no-trees)
[09:37] <TDJACR> spiv: I'll try it.
[09:37] <TDJACR> Thanks.
[09:38] <TDJACR> Now, why doesn't branch remember the location when I push?
[09:38] <spiv> And you can remove an existing, unwanted working tree with "bzr remove-tree" (run on the server in this case)
[09:38] <spiv> It should, unless it has already remembered a different location.
[09:39] <spiv> If you need to override an existing remembered location you can do "bzr push --remember your_location"
[09:40] <TDJACR> Okay, cool.
[09:42] <TDJACR> What is the purpose of having a tree?
[09:47] <spiv> It's the place where you edit files.
[09:47] <spiv> And "bzr commit" those edits.
[09:48] <spiv> Also called a checkout or a working copy.
[09:51] <TDJACR> Let me refine that, why would I have a tree on my server? The pushes wouldn't appear as files.
[10:24] <oSoMoN> hi all
[10:25] <oSoMoN> I've requested a one time import of translation templates in rosetta, and the files are markes as uploaded by someone else in the import queue
[10:25] <oSoMoN> and this someone else (who used to be responsible for the translations on this project) received mails to confirm the upload
[10:25] <henninge_> oSoMoN: the branch owner, I think
[10:26] <oSoMoN> doesn't seem so, the branch owner is a team
[10:26] <oSoMoN> and this person is not part of the team anymore
[10:27] <oSoMoN> could that be a bug in rosetta, or some setting I need to change somewhere?
[10:28] <henninge_> oSoMoN: let me check
[10:28] <oSoMoN> thx
[10:31] <henninge_> oSoMoN: see the code ;) http://paste.ubuntu.com/301941/
[10:32] <oSoMoN> pretty clear indeed
[10:32] <henninge_> oSoMoN: so templates is the series driver or the series owner
[10:32] <henninge_> *for templates*
[10:33] <oSoMoN> but where do I set the series driver?
[10:33] <henninge_> oSoMoN: on the series home page, I am pretty sure
[10:34] <oSoMoN> I don't seem to be allowed to set it (although I'm admin of the project, and it's already set to the team anyway, not this person)
[10:34] <oSoMoN> see https://launchpad.net/elisa/1.0
[10:40] <henninge_> oSoMoN: this *is* a bit strange, I don't see how Philippe Normand comes into play at all ...
[10:41] <oSoMoN> me neither!
[10:41] <henninge_> oSoMoN: can you please file a bug about it so we investigate the matter further?
[10:41] <oSoMoN> he used to be part of the elisa-developers team and in charge of translations
[10:41] <oSoMoN> sure
[10:41] <oSoMoN> what project on LP should I file it against?
[10:41] <henninge_> oSoMoN: Please add that information to the bug report
[10:42] <henninge_> oSoMoN: rosetta
[10:51] <slangasek> nice, bug #368497 reopened again
[10:52] <wgrant> Wow.
[10:55] <slangasek> uhm, interesting correlation
[10:55] <slangasek> each of the last three accounts that reopened the bug was created on the day they did so
[10:56] <oSoMoN> henninge: I just checked using launchpadlib, and Philippe Normand is the series owner
[10:56] <oSoMoN> the thing is, I cannot find where to change this
[10:56] <henninge> oSoMoN: right, so the owner does not show in the UI any more?
[10:57] <oSoMoN> no, it doesn't
[10:57] <henninge> oSoMoN: can you search if there is a bug this? it should be in launchpad-registry
[10:57] <oSoMoN> sure
[10:58] <henninge> oSoMoN: I always thought Maintainer was another word for Owner ...
[10:59]  * slangasek finds three more accounts listed on there that were created within a week of meddling with that bug state, nice
[11:01] <oSoMoN> henninge: I can't find a bug for it, will file one
[11:02] <henninge> oSoMoN: please do.
[11:03] <henninge> oSoMoN: Maybe the owner is meant to be obosoleted but than the translation import code should not use it, either.
[11:03] <oSoMoN> I'll include this info in the bug report
[11:03] <henninge> oSoMoN: thanks
[11:04] <henninge> oSoMoN: please subscribe me to the bug
[11:04] <oSoMoN> sure
[11:13] <oSoMoN> henninge: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/460980
[11:14] <oSoMoN> note that I manage to set myself as the series' owner using launchpadlib
[11:15] <henninge> oSoMoN: thank you. good job!
[11:16] <oSoMoN> thanks to you
[12:11] <Laney> Can I get a PPA which builds on armel/sparc please?
[12:11] <Laney> I need to test some FTBFS fixes
[14:57] <simon-o> Hi, is this error known? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~simono/ubuntu/karmic/gnoemoe/fixes-bug-459164/revision/6
[15:01] <PhilDick> I've reported a few bugs in Launchpad for ubuntu.  Is there an easy/convenient way to get a list of bugs I've created or commented on?
[15:05] <thekorn> PhilDick: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/people/+me/+reportedbugs
[15:06] <thekorn> and .../+commentedbugs
[15:27] <kfogel> launchpadlib experts: what am I doing wrong in this?  project.getBranches(status="any")
[15:28] <kfogel> it gets a HTTP 400 "Bad Request"
[15:28] <kfogel> I've tried it without the status= too.
[15:28] <kfogel> (that is, with just "any")
[15:31] <bodhi_zazen> What is the best way to contact a LP admin ?
[15:32] <jml> bodhi_zazen, ask a question on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[15:32] <jml> bodhi_zazen, or just ask your question here.
[15:33] <bodhi_zazen> jml: done, but I did not get an answer
[15:33] <bodhi_zazen> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/85249
[15:34] <geser> kfogel: I just noticed the API doc got now the toc, finally :)
[15:34] <jml> bodhi_zazen, our admins aren't always able to answer questions as quickly as they'd like.
[15:34] <jml> bodhi_zazen, this week they are unusually busy helping with the Ubuntu release.
[15:35] <bodhi_zazen> I understand
[15:36] <bodhi_zazen> my request is over 2 weeks old =)
[15:37] <kfogel> geser: yeah, saw that.  \o/
[15:37] <jml> kfogel, o hai
[15:38] <jml> kfogel, does it work with, say, status='merged'?
[15:39] <kfogel> jml: it's working now with no args (which means "any active status"), and that's fine for my purposes.
[15:40] <jml> kfogel, ok.
[15:40] <jml> kfogel, I think that the API docs are terrible wrt enums.
[15:41] <kfogel> jml: I haven't used them enough yet to form an opinion, but I'll take that as a warning.
[15:41] <jml> kfogel, well, you just bumped into that as a problem. :)
[15:42] <thekorn> kfogel: you can also catch the HTTPError object and print error.content, this should give you all possible values
[15:42] <thekorn> in this case: status: Invalid value "any". Acceptable values are: Experimental, Development, Mature, Merged, Abandoned
[15:43] <kfogel> thekorn: thank you for that tip!
[15:47] <jml> also (and I'm sure I've asked this before), but why isn't that included in the str() of the HTTPError?
[16:07] <Chipzz> Hey people, my apologies for the spam, but for those that didn't see it yet, may I steal a couple of minutes of your time and draw your attention to http://www.fosdem.org/2010/distrominiconf ? :)
[16:08] <Chipzz> IMO the launchpad ppl could contribute a lot here :)
[16:22] <nekohayo> anyone else having problems with apport popping up on each coming back from sleep/suspend in karmic, and then launchpad not being able to parse the stuff it sends?
[16:22] <nekohayo> been like that for a week
[17:34] <bond> hey
[17:36] <bond> How do you run a receipt describing the bug and its status through the bot commands?
[17:50] <rowinggolfer> really love the new changes to the site.
[17:57] <Pici> bond: What bot are you referring to?
[18:00] <bond> Pici: !bug #NNNN
[18:02] <Pici> bond: if you mean ubottu....
[18:02] <Pici> !usage | bond
[18:03] <bond> Pici: I am interested in plugin that takes information about the bug on launchpad
[18:04] <bond> a plug encyclopedia I have already installed and functioning well. Or have you laid there in the encyclopedia? :)
[18:05] <Pici> bond: That would be the bugtracker plugin, code is here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/ubuntu-bots/tweak .  Help can be found in #ubuntu-bots
[21:07] <tgm4883> Should users always be able to ask questions in the Answers section of a project, even if the project unchecks the "users can ask questions" checkbox?
[21:07] <tgm4883> specifically, we disabled this function a while ago, and a user just asked a question though it https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/mythbuntu
[21:13] <beuno> tgm4883, I think the shouldn't
[21:13] <beuno> there's a bug around for it
[21:14] <beuno> there are reasons why it's enabled, but it needs some thought
[21:19] <tgm4883> beuno, ok, thanks for the info
[22:52] <zorael> What does it mean when it says "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document" when I try to modify the description of a bug?
[22:59] <intellectronica> zorael: it's a bug
[22:59] <malept> hi, I think my PPA build needs to be kicked on bohrium
[23:26] <malept> the PPA build in question seems to be stuck on unpacking the gettext package...
[23:29] <wgrant> malept: I've seen bohrium get stuck several times lately.
[23:33] <malept> wgrant: oh joy.
[23:50] <vadi2> Are launchpad PPAs affected by the slowdown? I uploaded a package, but I never got a confirmation email and it's not showing up on my PPA page.
[23:58] <wgrant> vadi2: PPA uploads are happening fine. You probably didn't sign the package correctly.
[23:59] <vadi2> but there is no error about it: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/147193/


[03:49] <jalcine> bobweaver: how big of an effort would be it to recreate the panel in Qt?
[03:52] <bobweaver> qml multimedia sensors and what not are not as advanced (networking) . But one could try to make a C++  plugin thingy. what I did with the Tv was not a great thing but it works
[03:52] <bobweaver> but that is with unity2d libs
[03:53] <bobweaver> like the plugin thing that is there at the moment in unity 2d is great but to replace with all qml front end would be fun but well.... that would be fun
[03:53] <bobweaver> effort lots
[03:54] <bobweaver> that is just one man's thoughts. There are many things that could get in the way
[03:55] <bobweaver> s|multimedia|mobile
[04:25] <jalcine> Hm.
[04:25] <jalcine> I really want to help with Ubuntu Phone.
[04:26] <jalcine> Still working on a SpeechDispatcher-esque system for speech recognition.
[04:26] <jalcine> Should help out with Unity when I'm done.
[04:26] <jalcine> https://github.com/jalcine/speechcontrol if you're curious
[10:01] <sledges> Friday moarning!
[10:02] <sledges> thanks for the answer popey
[10:05]  * Tak doing Real Work on friday, feel dirty
[10:13] <sledges> well "look busy.." :)
[10:35] <jjardon__>  Hi, does anyone know if ubuntu for phones will be libre software?
[10:43] <popey> jjardon__: the core OS is fully open source, just like the desktop
[10:43] <popey> there may be some enablement work on hardware which requires other licenses as set by the handset/SoC manufacturers though
[10:46] <jjardon__> popey: Thanks for the info. Is the UI libre software also?
[10:47] <popey> jjardon__: all canonical software is GPL
[10:47] <popey> so the UI will also be open source
[10:49] <mitya57> The source code for the UI toolkit can already be downloaded from ppa:ui-toolkit/ppa, though the packaging refers to a closed LP branch
[10:50] <mitya57> (License is LGPL-3.0)
[10:53] <jjardon__> popey, mitya57 great, thanks!
[11:42] <schasch> Hi, does anyone know which phone to buy to flash first ubuntu-mobile-firmware-images?  the GT-I9250?
[11:50] <popey> schasch: you've probably seen the demos being given on the galaxy nexus, but we've not made any kind of final decisions, so I wouldn't buy a phone specifically for Ubuntu Phone testing right now. The first preview images may be some way off.
[12:07] <schasch> popey: :-( ...bad news... OK, I hoped those images for Galaxy Nexus could be released those days.
[12:07] <popey> patience ☺
[12:08] <schasch> patience is hard...I am still working on n900-maemo and waiting for a real linux phone
[12:14] <jo-erlend> schasch, hey... That _is_ a real linux phone. My usb port died on that one and they replaced it with an n8. :(
[12:21] <schasch> jo-erlend: till now I am happy with n900, but the hardware/software is too old and to slow...
[12:39] <sledges> get an N9
[12:40] <sledges> ah sure, not certain how that will blend in with ubuntu-os being android based
[12:40] <sledges> a "true linux phone" then ? ;)
[12:55] <popey> sledges: its not android based
[12:57] <sledges> using android bsp that is
[12:57] <sledges> for drivers' part
[12:57] <popey> sure, just that boit
[12:58] <popey> *bit
[12:58] <popey> it's not "android" as google would describe it

[12:58] <sledges> android kernel?
[13:00] <Tak> but android is a custom os on top of a linux kernel...
[13:01] <popey> exactly, so it's ubuntu on top of a linux kernel using android drivers for some of the hardware
[13:02] <sledges> but android drivers are compiled against bionic, ubuntu meanwhile will be (uc/g)libc (?)
[13:02]  * popey shrugs
[13:03] <sledges> *userspace drivers that is
[13:03] <sledges> like GLES wrappers etc
[13:32] <Elleo> I don't know what the ubuntu-phone team are doing, but there is libhybris, which allows for the use of bionic based drivers in a glibc based system
[13:34] <sledges> too true, I wonder when ubuntu will disclosed what's under the bonnet
[13:34] <sledges> *disclose
[13:34] <Walther> Any news on the availability of images?
[13:34] <sledges> and the source code? :)
[13:34] <Walther> I'd love to get hacking on it and help porting it to N9
[13:34] <sledges> well, we got told "patience" ..
[13:43] <popey> we'll announce when images are (going to be) available
[13:43] <popey> you'll know ☺
[13:50] <benfrancis> Is there any more information available yet about building HTML5 apps for Ubuntu Phone? Will there be any device APIs available to web apps? Sailfish looks like it will support HTML5 via Cordova Qt. Is this the approach Ubuntu phone will take, or will they run directly in a webkit runtime like Tizen?
[13:51] <Walther> Also, will the images be specific to devices, or will they follow the "generic kernel" way?
[13:52] <Walther> As in; will we have to make actual *ports* for different devices, or can the community help building support for other devices to a "generic" image
[13:52] <Walther> (because you know, ports suck and maintaining of separate ports sucks)
[13:58] <popey> Walther: we don't have any more info on that right now
[13:58] <benfrancis> I suspect there may be an issue with the distribution of device drivers. Most Android devices have proprietary drivers shipped with them (with no open source alternatives) which is what makes distributing images for those devices tricky from a legal point of view.
[13:58] <popey> benfrancis: no info yet on extending HTML5 or APIs
[13:59] <benfrancis> popey: OK, thanks. Where should I be listening for any news?
[14:08] <popey> benfrancis: "the internet" ☺
[14:08] <popey> also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone
[14:09]  * benfrancis turns on omnipotent mode and watches the whole Internet :P
[14:09]  * ubuntubhoy thinks popey must be getting sick of answering UOS release questions
[14:11] <sledges> maybe writing a bot would be handy? :)
[14:13] <Walther> ehm, might be useful to stick that wiki link to the topic
[14:26] <popey> ubuntubhoy: not at all
[14:30] <schasch> watching mark's video lets me and community think there will be an image for the galaxy nexus 'next week' because it looks this "ready"-state
[14:30] <schasch> maybe there should be a date for "source/image -release" be written  on http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone or http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone to stop this BIG release question...
[14:30] <schasch> something like : "no dev/test images" or sourcecode before sep 2013 for any phone"
[14:31] <schasch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone or http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone....
[14:36] <popey> schasch: updated it
[14:41] <schasch> popey : thanks, but maybe something like :    !!![ "no dev/test images" or sourcecode before 'SEP 2013' for any phone ]!!!
[14:41] <schasch> would be better...
[14:42] <Tak> where did you hear this 2013/9 date?
[14:42] <dpm> benfrancis, you can also ask questions on www.askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=mobile
[14:43] <schasch> Tak : I didn't heard it, but I read in the Internet "images coming soon" and that seems not to be true
[14:46] <schasch> someone from the ubuntu-team should tell us a  NOT BEFORE ...[YEAR.MONTH],  , at least for the sourcecode...
[14:46] <Tak> NOT BEFORE 2013/1
[14:46] <popey> the guys are working hard on the software right now, nothing will happen before CES next week. Once that's over we'll try and get an update.
[14:47] <popey> heh
[14:49] <schasch> popey : thanks...
[14:55] <user82> schasch, setp 13 or just a date you made up?
[14:56] <robin-gloster> user82: that date is made up
[14:56] <schasch> correct, fantasy
[14:56] <user82> puh..that would be after my birthday...without ubuntu images ready or my birthday i have to wait for christmas to buy a new phone :D
[14:56]  * Tak caught in a landslide
[14:56] <schasch> :-)
[14:59] <user82> hoping for google nexus images anyway..not buying a phone less price effective for ubuntu os to be honest
[14:59] <schasch> if ubuntu would tell me 'FEB 2013' image/source for galaxy nexus/or other  ,  I would buy one today
[15:00] <robin-gloster> user82: dev phone was a galaxy nexus, so probable that an image for that will be the first to be released
[15:00] <user82> robin-gloster, it was a samsung nexus..not to be confused with the lg device google nexus 4
[15:00] <user82> i got that wrong too first
[15:01] <robin-gloster> user82: "galaxy nexus"!
[15:01] <user82> ah ok yeah..that is what i meant.
[15:01] <user82> google phone has much better performance/price
[15:02] <schasch> robin-gloste : popey wrote they do not know yet wich phone
[15:02] <schasch> i would pay a bit more as long as I have ubuntu
[15:02] <user82> hopefully it gets ported to many phones...
[15:02] <robin-gloster> user82: galaxy nexus was a google phone, too, but the one released before nexus4
[15:02] <user82> "ported"0adopted
[15:02] <user82> did not know that yet robin-gloster ...
[15:03] <robin-gloster> user82: all nexus "nexus one, nexus S, galaxy nexus and nexus4" are "google phones"
[15:04] <user82> ah ok...well nexus 4 is the one i would prefer
[15:07] <robin-gloster> schasch: i only know that GNexus was the dev phone, so I said it's probable that an early image will be for it ;)
[15:10] <schasch> robin-gloster : thats what I thought/hoped too... , but see popey 's  aswer to me...
[15:10] <schasch> maybe they show it next week at CES on a NEXUS4 ???
[15:10] <schasch> :-)
[15:14] <DrHalan> hey. i am wondering if anybody is working on porting gwibber to ubuntu for phones. would be cool to have microblogging integrated into the OS.
[15:15] <DrHalan> and the same for telepathy (Maemo was pretty cool in that matter)
[16:21] <ct529> I have motorola defy, will UP work on it?
[16:22] <ubuntubhoy> ct529: only GNex image being released at first
[16:23] <ubuntubhoy> but when source is out I am sure someone will port it
[16:23] <ct529> ubuntubhoy: :-(
[16:25] <ct529> ubuntubhoy: any timeline?
[16:25] <ubuntubhoy> ct529: nope
[16:26] <ubuntubhoy> but was stated on channel nothing till after CES at earliest
[16:30] <Tak> and also on the site
[16:34] <ubuntubhoy> and the MOTD
[17:13] <ct529> ubuntubhoy: MOTD
[17:13] <ct529> ubuntubhoy: ?
[17:22] <nrosvall_> Hi
[17:22] <nrosvall_> Any news if ubuntu phone os is going to support Python with PyQt or Pyside?
[17:26] <dmdrummond> nrosvall_: I haven't heard anything official, but I'm sure it will run Python.
[17:28] <robin-gloster> nrosvall_: mhall119 said that currently only HTML5/QML/OpenGL is supported. anything else has not been decided so far
[17:29] <dmdrummond> robin-gloster: What about native code?
[17:29] <mhall119> dmdrummond: QML is native
[17:29] <robin-gloster> dmdrummond: native == QML
[17:30] <dmdrummond> mhall119: robin-gloster: last time I looked it was a markup language with javascripty bits.
[17:32] <mhall119> it's as native as python in that regard
[17:32] <dmdrummond> mhall119: I would never call oython native tbh
[17:33] <mhall119> it gets to be a difference that makes no difference
[17:33] <dmdrummond> mhall119: Wow, and that gets to be a sentence that makes no sense
[17:34] <mhall119> sorry, maybe a cultural saying
[17:34] <dmdrummond> mhall119: Will we be able to back up the QML in native C++, as say is done in the Blackberry 10 platform?
[17:34] <mhall119> dmdrummond: I'm not 100% sure on that
[17:35] <mhall119> dmdrummond: it's still pretty early, and the goal is to make the QML and HTML5 SDK top-notch
[17:41] <dmdrummond> mhall119: For the dialler app, there must already be some platform abstractions going on.  The docs I have seen so far do not mention much other than UI.  Will there be a consistent interface for bluetooth/location/<other common phone feature> ?
[17:44] <mhall119> dmdrummond: bluetooth probably, since we have that on desktops/laptops already
[17:44] <mhall119> I don't know if there's a common way of getting gps/location information though
[19:50] <rsalveti> nrosvall_: I don't see why not supporting python with pyqt/pyside
[19:51] <rsalveti> if it's working properly with qt5, then it should be good
[20:06] <Silur> hi all
[20:06] <Silur> can anyone help me with some developing q-s
[20:07] <Silur> the site and the video only metions QML and HTML5
[20:07] <Silur> will i be able to run a hellp world std C++?
[20:07] <Silur> or will it contain a python shell?
[20:07] <Silur> the site says
[20:08] <Silur> "Ubuntu phone's going to inherit Desktop ubuntu's security, workflow, Design and management"
[20:08] <Silur> what about development?
[20:09] <Silur> ubuntu is not unix without development opportunities :D
[22:37] <Ryan45> What is Ubuntu's relationship with Nvidia. Being involved with the tablet porting community it always seemed to fall back on NVidia quickly abandoning support for thier platforms as soon as they brought something new out.
[22:41] <Ryan45> If I read the logs correct an image is coming out for Galaxy Nexus which is TI OMAP.
[22:42] <Ryan45> I would image this is going to limit UP's availability to OMAP devices, which is not the end of the world. In fact you might be on to something if you can create an Ubuntu Phone Market where vendors can sell unlocked phones.
[22:43] <Ryan45> Obviously, the rest of the world wouldn't care
[22:43] <Ryan45> but in the US it would be a huge hit for the nerds.


[12:49] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:55] <ahoneybun[m]> Heyo BluesKaj
[13:04] <BluesKaj> hey ahoneybun[m]
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> mmikowski, arraybolt3: Just tried the new kfocus-power-bin in package-testing. No dice. Same result as before.
[22:23] <mmikowski> Hi Eickmeyer: Sorry to hear that. Hmmf, I didn't test it outside of KDE, I just made sure it worked on my normal desktop.
[22:24] <mmikowski> Is it the same output as before, or something new?
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> Same output as before.
[22:24] <mmikowski> I'll also double check the package, I might have missed something.
[22:24] <mmikowski> It's beta for a reason! :) (tm)
[22:25] <Eickmeyer> 👍
[22:26] <mmikowski> haha, I was thinking I might have missed the kfocus-power-bin package, but judging by the fixed window title, I don't think so.
[22:26] <mmikowski> But there might be a merge snafu so that Aaron's fixes didn't get in place, so gimme a few ...
[22:27] <Eickmeyer> Take your time.
[22:27] <mmikowski> btw, I missed it a long time ago, but we finally patched the crashy button error on ubiquity.
[22:28] <Eickmeyer> I saw the emails. I might be able to reformat it as an SRU if that patch is formatted as a debdiff, which it doesn't look like it is.
[22:29] <Eickmeyer> It would have to include changelog entries and what-not.
[22:29] <Eickmeyer> I also couldn't sponsor the upload since it's a package in main.
[22:31]  * Eickmeyer afk for a while
[23:39] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: I can confirm that the Discover update indicator has come back \o/
[23:39] <arraybolt3> Noticed it for the first time just now.
[23:39] <arraybolt3> (er, I mean, clicked it just now, I noticed it a bit earlier.)