[01:04] <lns> has anyone had any progress with the 100% CPU Nautilus bug in Gutsy upon user logout?
[01:04] <lns> I can't seem to find the bug in LP
[04:19] <semaja2> howdy, anyone here able to help me?
[04:21] <HedgeMage> semaja2:  until we hear your question we won't know
[04:21] <HedgeMage> :)
[04:22] <semaja2> lol well applications like gcompris and tuxpaint have stopped working, they wont load
[04:22] <semaja2> the process starts but just doesnt start etc
[04:22] <semaja2> other apps like blackjack work tho
[04:22] <HedgeMage> that's odd
[04:22] <semaja2> id prefer not to reformat for this
[04:23] <HedgeMage> have you tried running them from a terminal to see if any errors are shown?
[04:23] <semaja2> yeh it starts but gets stuck
[04:23] <semaja2> in compris it gets upto the point where it says where the database is
[04:23] <semaja2> no errors tho
[04:27] <HedgeMage> hmm
[04:27] <semaja2> i did a reinstall of gcompris but didnt help
[04:30] <crimsun> LTNS, HedgeMage.
[04:35] <HedgeMage> crimsun:  yep, my life is back down to the usual level of insanity
[04:36] <crimsun> HedgeMage: good to read : )
[04:36] <HedgeMage> thanks :)
[08:45] <Bauer|> hi. How can I make edubuntu accept clients from other network-segments?
[08:46] <Bauer|> I changed the IP-adress to <IP_ADDRESS> and ran a ltsp-update-sshkeys
[08:46] <Bauer|> now edubuntu accepts clients from 10.84.8.*
[08:46] <Bauer|> but this is a server-segment, the schools is at 10.84.10.*/10.84.11* and so on
[08:46] <Bauer|> these are not accepted on logon...
[09:26] <Bauer|> ?? ltsp-update-sshkeys prints no result? Now I can't even log on from the same network-segment..
[14:29] <RichEd> hi anestis
[14:30] <anestis> hi Rich, sorry for the delay
[14:30] <RichEd> that's okay ... lets join #educonlinux
[14:30] <anestis> ok
[15:06] <nonsparker> Hey Guys
[15:16] <mcfloppy_> hello
[15:16] <mcfloppy_> how can i set in lts.conf which xorg config should be used?
[15:17] <mcfloppy_> [<IP_ADDRESS>]
[15:17] <mcfloppy_>    X_CONF = xorg.conf.dual
[15:17] <mcfloppy_> dont work
[15:17] <mcfloppy_> and with absolute path also dont work
[15:30] <steph_> I've installed gutsy and there is an applet for noetworking management. When I change properties (DHCP or anything else) it looks like I need to restart the network daemon. Am I wrong?
[15:31] <steph_> I have two interfaces (for ltsp)
[15:48] <bddebian> Heya
[17:50] <arnath01> hi, does edubuntu ship with any software that is suitable for teaching kids in primary school? (so ages 6-12)
[17:51] <arnath01> because i've been looking at the site a bit, and i seem to find tools for 12+ and 6- but little for in between (i might be overlooking something)
[17:56] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  there are a few good things -- off the top of my head, anagramarama (letter scramble game) and hangman come to mind, also fish fillet (logic ga
[17:56] <HedgeMage> ...logic game)
[17:56] <arnath01> ah :)
[17:57] <arnath01> my mother teaches in a primary school on a tight IT budget, i'm thinking of demonstrating edubuntu + thin clients
[17:57] <HedgeMage> cool
[17:57] <HedgeMage> where are you in the world?
[17:57] <arnath01> belgium
[17:57] <arnath01> HedgeMage: the thin clients require no hard disk at all correct?
[17:58] <HedgeMage> correct
[17:58] <HedgeMage> ahh, cool
[17:58] <arnath01> ah good, that saves a bit more money on each pc hehe :)
[18:00] <HedgeMage> if you are buying thin clients rather than stripping down old pcs, there are a few on the market that have very low power consumption and are small and cheap (think 200-350 USD each)
[18:00] <arnath01> o nice
[18:01] <arnath01> i haven't really decided yet if i should go for new ones or old ones (primarily because i'm not sure how many they would need and where i could get em all :))
[18:01] <HedgeMage> there are pros and cons to each
[18:02] <arnath01> true, but the cheapness of old ones overcomes the benefits of new ones in my opinion
[18:02] <arnath01> only problem is getting enough old ones :)
[18:02] <HedgeMage> you can usually get old machines donated that would serve well as thin clients, but they take up lots of space and power (usually 400 watts for an old pc vs. 5 watts for a thin client)
[18:02] <arnath01> ouch, didn't know it was that big a difference
[18:02] <HedgeMage> yep
[18:03] <johnny> hmm.. the PCs i'm using have 90watt power supplies, but i'm sure it can add up overtime
[18:03] <HedgeMage> that's not bad
[18:03] <arnath01> indeed
[18:03] <HedgeMage> it depends on how old the old pcs are ;)
[18:03] <arnath01> what's the best strategem for getting my hands on some screens?
[18:04] <arnath01> old ones as well?
[18:04] <arnath01> or is there like a cheap lcd screen that would be suited?
[18:04] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  it's hard (at least here) to find used monitors in working condition
[18:05] <HedgeMage> most people keep those until they die
[18:05] <arnath01> HedgeMage: indeed, i can attest to that with an 8 year old monitor that i bought second-hand back then :D
[18:05] <arnath01> (still works like a charm ;))
[18:05] <arnath01> but is there such a thing is a lowcost lcd screen? (that still has some resemblance of performance)
[18:05] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  if you're going to buy more than 5 or 10 at a shot, get ViewSonic or Sony or some other big company with a history of good educational discounts to assign you your own sales rep -- then milk them for every money saver they can think of
[18:06] <arnath01> HedgeMage: hehehe, do you know of a ballpark figure there?
[18:07] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  Depending on how many you are buying, you may be able to find something suitable at around 100 USD if you aren't too picky
[18:07] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  ymmv of course ;)
[18:07] <arnath01> ah ok :)
[18:07] <HedgeMage> but, investing in monitors doesn't hurt too much -- they tend to last forever
[18:08] <arnath01> HedgeMage: not the cheap ones ironically... :D
[18:08] <johnny> corporate folks on an upgrade cycle?
[18:08] <arnath01> and a decent one would be nearing the price of the entire thin client, which may be a bit overboard
[18:08] <arnath01> johnny: indeed, but how do you get in touch with those? :)
[18:08] <arnath01> is there like a national forum for companies dumping old equipment?
[18:08] <johnny> spend a few hours on phone calls i guess
[18:08] <arnath01> ah :P
[18:09] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  hmm -- I have a $140 lcd panel I bought in 1999 that is still going strong
[18:09] <johnny> good idea tho
[18:09] <arnath01> i'm in for a bit of fun i see ;)
[18:09] <johnny> thrift stores?
[18:09] <arnath01> HedgeMage: nice :o
[18:09] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  yep :)
[18:10] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  yay for bargain hunting! (that was REALLY cheap back then)
[18:10] <arnath01> indeed, back then lcd was a novelty :D
[18:10] <arnath01> johnny: hmm, not sure if we have an equivalent of that in belgium :p
[18:10] <HedgeMage> wow, my son is snoring, but his eyes are open, all glazed over watching a movie
[18:11] <johnny> arnath01, people don't donate their old items anywhere?
[18:11] <arnath01> johnny: "donate" not so much, second hand selling ye, but big companies don't post on those sites
[18:11] <johnny> they don't have that charitable guilt syndrome in belgium?
[18:11] <arnath01> johnny: (at least that i'm aware of)
[18:11] <johnny> not big companies
[18:11] <arnath01> they might, but then i'm totally oblivious of it :P
[18:12] <johnny> i was just speaking of individuals donating to thrift stores
[18:12] <johnny> or similiar that is
[18:12] <johnny> for religious support
[18:12] <arnath01> johnny: still not that i know off :P only the second hand shops
[18:12] <johnny> or charities that sell items from it
[18:12] <johnny> it's like a second hand shop people can write off on their taxes :)
[18:12] <arnath01> hah nice :)
[18:13] <johnny> no charitable writeoffs in belgium?
[18:13] <arnath01> hmm, i think that's a possibility, but i don't know of any large centers that handle it
[18:14] <arnath01> but i may simply be too ignorant on that subject :P
[18:14] <johnny> it's not usually a large thing, many charities have their own.. like for the hospital
[18:14] <HedgeMage> johnny:  I think most European countries do VAT instead of income tax
[18:15] <johnny> aha.. i always get confused about VAT
[18:15] <johnny> one day i'll actually need to know
[18:15] <arnath01> HedgeMage: up until just now, i thought that was the same hehe :)
[18:15] <arnath01> what's income tax then?
[18:15] <HedgeMage> johnny:  depending on how it's implemented, it can be better or worse than the US system -- but at least it's always less paperwork!
[18:15] <johnny> yeah.. that's what i want :)
[18:15] <johnny> lol
[18:16] <arnath01> :D
[18:16] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  In the US, you get taxed up to three times, depending on where you live...
[18:16] <arnath01> thats nasty :|
[18:17] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  first, you pay federal tax based on your income -- unfortunately, in all the years congress has made so many tax breaks and then other taxes to cover them (they try to use tax incentives to create social policy) that the tax code is tens of thousands of pages long
[18:18] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  so it's a horribly complicated process, and anyone who has the money to hire a good tax professional can pay a lot less than their fare share (which everyone else has to make up)
[18:18] <johnny> well.. some of them are good
[18:19] <johnny> like credits for going to college
[18:19] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  then, every state has its own sales tax (but they don't have the power to tax inter-state transactions, so many also have a state income tax to make up for it)
[18:19] <johnny> yes.. state income tax.. yay
[18:19] <johnny> lol
[18:19] <HedgeMage> johnny:  that could be done outside the tax code though
[18:20] <johnny> needa debug it like an open source project.. sadly the compile time is too long ...
[18:20] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  then, each local govornment (at the city, township, or county level) has a property tax that all landowners pay
[18:20] <johnny> it's like 1000 times longer than openoffice
[18:20] <johnny> on a 486
[18:20] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  based on the value of the property and where it is located
[18:21] <HedgeMage> johnny:  I think all laws should be submitted as patches under revision control (preferably git)
[18:21] <HedgeMage> ;)
[18:21] <johnny> wikis are easier for them to use
[18:21] <johnny> merging branches would be difficult :)
[18:22] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  anyhow, the tax codes in the US are horribly complicated, and large companies will do anything for a tax break (as both companies and the people who own them pay tax on income)
[18:22] <arnath01> damn hehe
[18:22] <johnny> and if you work for yourself... 15% here in maryland
[18:22] <arnath01> sometimes you just wish they'd start off with a clean slate ;)
[18:22] <HedgeMage> johnny:  it's far worse in Illinois
[18:23] <johnny> start our own country..
[18:23] <arnath01> we have the same problem in belgium, though possibly in a different way, the short of it is that taxes are simply too complex
[18:23] <arnath01> and getting exponentially more so each year it seems
[18:25] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  someone I'm having a related convo with wants to know if donations to charitable organizations in Belgium are taxed, and if charitable organizations pay tax on anything
[18:28] <arnath01> HedgeMage: heh, not a clue really
[18:29] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  okay :)
[18:29] <HedgeMage> we were debating the current US tax system vs "fair tax" (a system proposed for use in Indiana) vs Euro-style VAT
[18:30] <arnath01> "fair tax", a contradiction if ever i heard one :P
[18:30] <HedgeMage> heh
[18:31] <HedgeMage> basically, it's a VAT with charitable organizations being exempt, and a flat prebate to even the playing field a bit between the impoverished and everyone else
[18:31] <HedgeMage> I think it sounds interesting, though I'm not sold on it yet
[18:32] <arnath01> i don't know nearly enough on the subject to take an educated stance, but it does seem to be nice :)
[18:33] <arnath01> in belgium they are considering to fill in the tax papers before sending them to the people (at least fill in the draft)
[18:33] <arnath01> so unless you have a reason to think it's wrong, you could just copy it
[18:33] <arnath01> now that would be a sweet idea
[18:33] <HedgeMage> heh
[18:34] <arnath01> it does not solve the real problem, i know :D
[18:34] <arnath01> but it solves MY problem :D
[18:34] <HedgeMage> :)
[18:38] <arnath01> HedgeMage: should i be interested in helping translation efforts for edubuntu, any idea where to start?
[18:39] <HedgeMage> arnath01:  I'd start by checking out the translator team on launchpad.net -- I'm afraid I don't recall it's name, though
[18:39] <arnath01> ah will have a look :)
[18:39] <HedgeMage> (I only know English and a little ASL, so not very useful there)
[18:40] <arnath01> :)
[18:43] <arnath01> ah, why does a day only have 24 hours, there's so much i want to do :<
[18:43] <HedgeMage> I know the feeling
[18:46] <HedgeMage> hi ced37
[18:47] <ced37> Hi, hows things?
[18:47] <HedgeMage> okay, I guess
[18:48] <ced37>  Good, Im just checking this irc out for the first time, I have a 15 pc edu install im tinkering with at the moment, in my classroom
[18:49] <HedgeMage> cool
[18:50] <ced37> Yeah, the kids like it, I had a few problems with my older thin clients upgrading to 7.10. but 7.04 is wonderful!
[18:53] <ced37> Alrighty then, hakuna matata, and keep fighting the good fight, better get some breakfast, chow for now!
[19:31] <judgement> hello i need help w/multiseat and thin client
[23:17] <steph_> Sorry if you read the same message on another channel. I've send it 10 minutes ago.
[23:17] <steph_>  Ok, I'll try to explain my problem (which I don't understand that much). I have 2 network intefaces: one goes to the web, the other to the router. If I ping the router, it says "Destination Host Unreachable". I'm on the same subnet. When I try to admin the router from a M$, everything is well (conclusion: the router works). Do I have to setup something like firewall, conf file or something else ? Any help would be appreciated.
[23:17] <steph_> Thanks
[23:18] <steph_> I'm running Gutsy


[00:35] <rick_h_> the email it burns!
[01:14] <gary_poster> lol
[12:17] <gary_poster> welcome back rick_h_
[12:17] <gary_poster> good to have you back. hope you had a good time
[12:19] <bac> gary_poster: on stable and dev ~juju-gui-charmers PPA doesn't have saucy builds.  want a card for that?
[12:20] <gary_poster> bac, sure thank you. high priority has room, and that seems about right.
[12:27] <gary_poster> rick_h_, when you get a chance, please add this to your list of emails to slog through, or similar :-) : http://jujugui.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/bugs-vs-kanban/
[12:28] <gary_poster> rick_h_, that is what we agreed, but we are happy to revisit if you disagree and want to be convincing. :-)
[12:31] <rick_h_> gary_poster: sure thing, I read through that and +1. I think it reads kind of what we had talked about where kanban is committed work and the only 'change' is let's do better to syncing the cards with bugs we've gotten done
[12:31] <gary_poster> ok cool rick_h_ thanks
[12:32] <rick_h_> and yea, good time by all, DC Zoo was awesome. VA mountains are awesome. My own bed is awesome lol
[12:32] <gary_poster> lol great :-)
[12:33] <rick_h_> and the touareg has a 'spirited' side taking us through back mountain passes with > 8 deg grades and emergency runaway truck lanes and fog so thick you can't see the brake lights of a guy 2 car lengths in front of you.
[12:33] <rick_h_> but she loved powering through those
[12:34] <gary_poster> lol, sounds fun in a "I hope I don't drive us all off the side of a mountain" kind of way :-)
[12:35] <rick_h_> yea, let's just say my wife wants me to start double checking the GPS the car produces more often
[12:41] <gary_poster> heh, yeah, DC has brought that conversation up for us more than once actually.  DC appears to be an anti-GPS zone
[12:42] <rick_h_> well that part worked well. We got rerouted twice due to traffic conditions. It was crazy, towing a 5,000lb trailer to get the notice "In 1 mile, take the exit on the left" in a 6 lane wide highway
[13:35] <bac> too much vietnamese food?  i type 'make tet' way too often.
[13:39] <gary_poster> hey frankban, running make in the charm on saucy is downloading and trying to build bzrlib, even though I have bzr 2.6.0 installed.  This then fails because I do not have libpython-dev installed, afaict.  Shoudl I install libpython-dev and add that to the charm dependencies, or should the charm not being trying to build bzrlib?
[13:41] <frankban> gary_poster: hi! bzrlib is required by juju-deployer. so, if libpython-dev is not listed in make sysdeps it should be added
[13:41] <gary_poster> frankban, cool, on it, thanks
[13:53] <rick_h_> yay, readthedocs fixed their bzr stuff http://charmworld.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html
[13:58] <frankban> guihelp: could anyone please review https://codereview.appspot.com/14125043 ? 1 review + 1 QA. thanks!
[13:59] <gary_poster> jujugui if you are coming to the resolve/retry mtg with luca it is in less than one minute in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/eeadd54f49162797f746e11bc0adc95c87a0e963
[14:00] <gary_poster> (see your calendar for detaisl)
[14:05] <gary_poster> luca__, you coming?
[14:05] <luca__> just grabbing my charger
[14:05] <luca__> gary_poster: ^
[14:05] <gary_poster> cool
[14:17] <benji> frankban: which file in the GUI has the tests for the deployer integration?
[14:18] <gary_poster> benji, the only gui deployer integration we have so far is from bcsaller
[14:18] <frankban> benji: did not work on the client side deployer support, you might ask ben
[14:18] <gary_poster> and it is on the env
[14:18] <benji> ok; I think I see it now
[14:24] <bac> hey benji can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/fix-icons/+merge/188341 ?  it is a critical charmworld fix for broken icons.
[14:24] <benji> bac: I'll look right now.
[14:24] <bac> ty
[14:33] <rick_h_> gary_poster: so I'll update #1229215 with the first step we talked about
[14:33] <_mup_> Bug #1229215: Confusing unit retry/resolve UX <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229215>
[14:38] <gary_poster> awesome thanks rick_h_
[14:50] <benji> bac: apparently my "right now" is a little off today; the branch looks good.
[14:50] <bac> thanks benji.  will land and release soon.
[14:58] <gary_poster> frankban, hey.  I'm still having trouble making the charm.  I'm on saucy fwiw, but I think this issues is a chicken and egg problem.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6175862/  It looks like bzr is trying to build itself, and found a plugin in my .bazaar directory and so tried to include that in docs, but the rvsubmit plugin expected launchpadlib, which exists in my system just fine but has not yet been built in the virtu
[14:58] <gary_poster> alenv (because it needs bzr to be built).  So, it's a loop.  The solution would seem to be to exclude my plugins from the bzr build step.  I don't see an automatic way to do this, so I just plan to move my ~/.bazaar directory aside manually, temporarily.  Agree, or do you have another idea?
[14:58] <bac> abentley: i just had a charmworld MP approved.  lander being tested.
[14:58] <bac> abentley: does it run at :00 ?
[14:59] <abentley> bac: I don't understand.  I'm trying to restore the lander.  AFAIK, it's not running successfully.
[15:00] <bac> abentley: last week you asked to be alerted when we had branches to be landed.  i wasn't aware that the new lander was not working.
[15:00] <abentley> bac: The trigger runs every minute, does that answer your question?
[15:00] <bac> abentley: that does
[15:00] <frankban> gary_poster: looking
[15:01] <gary_poster>  :-P biabfrankban, going to another call
[15:01] <gary_poster>  supposed to be this: frankban, going to another call :-P biab
[15:01] <abentley> bac: Okay, so jcsackett reported problems Friday afternoon.  I tried to fix them, but ended up locking myself out of the instance.
[15:02] <bac> abentley: ok.  please let me know what i should do, if anything, to get my branch merged.  i'm happy to wait a little while but i'd like to do a charmworld release today.
[15:03] <abentley> bac: Run the tests locally, merge into trunk locally, commit and push trunk.
[15:05] <bac> abentley: ok, i understand the manual procedure.  i was asking more if you wanted me to wait to see if the lander would work on my branch.  as i said, i'm happy to do that for a limited amount of time.
[15:05] <abentley> bac: I can't give you an estimate for how long this will take.  The floor keeps collapsing underneath me with every step I take.
[15:06] <bac> ok.  i'll land manually.  good luck abentley.
[15:19] <rick_h_> lol benji you don't like my python docstrings with params? :)
[15:19] <rick_h_> gary_poster: so I think I'm close enough on email atm, if I was sick of email and wanted to code something did you have a place you wanted me to jump into or just grab a bug and go forth?
[15:19] <benji> nope :)
[15:20] <rick_h_> benji: do you displlike it on the js @param business as well or python in particular is buggy?
[15:20] <hazmat> gary_poster, incidentally there are a few bugs around the notifications in the last release.. once you enter the full screen errors you cant go back
[15:20] <gary_poster> rick_h_, "Make bundle token realer": make the bundle token thing actually do the right thing
[15:20] <rick_h_> gary_poster: rgr
[15:20] <gary_poster> hazmat, yeah, thank you, known bug.  for next release (this week) we are simply removing the "all notifications"
[15:21] <benji> rick_h_: I dislike it in JS too, but at least we have tools that actually parse it there, we're not doing anything like that on the Python side.
[15:21] <hazmat> gary_poster, cool
[15:21] <rick_h_> benji: ah, ok.
[15:25] <frankban> gary_poster: make BZR_PLUGIN_PATH='-user' should prevent bzr from importing plugins from HOME.
[15:25] <gary_poster> frankban, ah, nice!  I'll add that to Makefile too
[15:25] <gary_poster> thank you
[15:26] <frankban> gary_poster: yeah, if it works, adding that to the Makefile sounds great, thank you
[15:26] <gary_poster> cool
[15:28] <bac> hey benji i had to fix a ton of pre-existing lint problems in my branch.  could you re-approve https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/fix-icons/+merge/188341 ?
[15:29] <benji> bcsaller: hi, are you in?
[15:29] <benji> bac: sure
[15:29] <bac> actually since i'm landing it by hand it doesn't matter
[15:29] <bcsaller> benji: yes
[15:30] <benji> bcsaller: cool, a question about the deployer bits: is it (more or less) finished?  I.e., given a deployer file will it deploy the described services, relations, config, etc.?
[15:31] <bcsaller> benji: It should fire off the env call to an actual backend with the proper data (though that could use more testing) but that call is also implemented in the fakebackend and that will simulate a deploy now
[15:32] <benji> bac: looks good [but man I dislike a couple of the whitespace rules that linter insists upon, especially the two spaces before inline indents; who does that?)
[15:33] <benji> bcsaller: ok.  I'm asking because (in my in-development branch that may well be doing something wrong) I don't get correct results when deploying a bundle using its deployer-formatted description.  I'll look deeper.
[15:33] <hatch> morning
[15:33] <benji> bcsaller: are there any demo deployer files that are known to work that I can reference?
[15:34] <benji> hatch: it seems your jetlag-induced early-bird desires have been defeated
[15:34] <bcsaller> benji: you can export something on the canvas today and re-import that but there is test/data/wp-deployer.yaml as well
[15:34] <benji> bcsaller: cool, thanks
[15:34] <hatch> benji: haha, nah had eye doc appt
[15:34] <benji> ah
[15:35] <hatch> 20/20....like a boss
[15:36] <benji> I was 20/13 the last time I had mine checked, but I'm probably down to 20/20 by now.
[15:36] <abentley> bac: I am ready to try an auto landing.   :-P)
[15:41] <hatch> haha
[15:41] <benji> yow
[15:41] <gary_poster> and, yes, yuck :-)
[15:42] <benji> I'll make my millions by inventing eye lube for the overly-thick contact market.
[15:42] <bcsaller> benji: did that file import for you?
[15:43] <benji> bcsaller: I'm just visually comparing it with my data right now, I haven't tried to import it... one sec an I'll try.
[15:46] <benji> bcsaller: "Import Environment Failed"
[15:47] <benji> bcsaller: let me try again on trunk, I may have broken my branch
[15:47] <bcsaller> testing locally, I didn't expect that to fail
[15:49] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm afraid bac landed changes that conflict with yours.  However, once you've fixed the conflicts, I believe jenkins will land your changes.
[15:49] <bcsaller> benji: that did work for me here
[15:50] <benji> bcsaller: it failed on trunk for me too; this is by dragging and dropping the file; are you using some other mechanism to load the file?
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:50] <bcsaller> DnD
[15:50] <benji> hmm
[15:52] <benji> bcsaller: oh!  I figured it out: I had the Charmworld API v3 flag enabled, which apparently causes the failure when importing.  I'll look at figuring out why that breaks import.
[15:52] <bcsaller> benji: ahh, I bet its the change to charm revision searching
[15:52] <benji> I'll keep that in mind.
[15:53] <bac> abentley: does your lander run 'make lint' on charmworld?
[15:54] <abentley> bac: No.
[15:57] <jcsackett> abentley: thanks!
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[16:01] <gary_poster> bug
[16:01] <gary_poster> bug 1220909
[16:01] <_mup_> Bug #1220909: Searching for "rabbit" doesn't return the rabbitmq charm <charmworld:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220909>
[16:13] <rick_h_> luca__: still around?
[16:13] <luca__> rick_h_: for another 15 mins or so :)
[16:14] <rick_h_> luca__: so I'm working on updating the bundle token to be 'correctish' and I'm looking over assets/etc
[16:14] <luca__> rick_h_: ok
[16:14] <rick_h_> luca__: the one thing I notice is that we have several sizes of the old charm token and curious if there's thought on that on the bundle side?
[16:14] <rick_h_> in particular for the autocomplete/quicksearch results display?
[16:14] <rick_h_> right now I'd imagine they all get the same generic icon + the name of the bundle?
[16:14] <luca__> rick_h_: thats right
[16:15] <rick_h_> luca__: the other thing I've not verified yet is 'related charms' ?
[16:15] <luca__> rick_h_: they only show in the auto-complete if its recommended
[16:15] <rick_h_> there's related bundles I'd assume, but not verified. They also just get the same generic image
[16:15] <luca__> rick_h_: related charms is "charms within this bundle"
[16:15] <rick_h_> luca__: is that how we treat autcomplete currently? I thought we ditched the idea of search with recommended? /me dbl checks
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: it's a list of the charms within the bundle, it includes summary of each service
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: it seems odd that I can search for rack and get results but a rack bundle would not because it's not recommended?
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: afaik the auto-complete only shows recommended charms
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: ok, that's not true atm
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: wait wait wait :)
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: and since we've been heading down the path of autcomplete being more of a 'quick search' I don't think it should be true
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: the auto-complete is the drop down part which shows results as you type
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: right
[16:17] <Makyo> hatch, https://codereview.appspot.com/13986043
[16:17] <rick_h_> http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/
[16:17] <rick_h_> enter 'rack'
[16:17] <hatch> Makyo: thanks will take a look shortly
[16:17] <rick_h_> and see three options, none of which are reviewed charms
[16:17] <Makyo> hatch, cool, thanks.
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: ^^
[16:17] <luca__> rick_h_: it should only recommended stuff…I thought it was only showing recommended stuff hehe
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: now recommended charms are given a higher 'score' in autocomplete and get showed at the top of the list
[16:18] <luca__> rick_h_: because the add to my canvas in auto-complete is missing
[16:18] <rick_h_> luca__: but with the idea of it being 'quicksearch' vs 'autocomplete' does that idea still hold true?
[16:18] <rick_h_> luca__: true, I need to get that in. I'll try to squeeze it in soon. I might be able to drive-by it. It should be a quick/easy update
[16:19] <luca__> rick_h_: mostly, I can't remember the decision to why it's not just recommended, I think it's like that because we couldn't implement the rest of the UX
[16:20]  * bac lunches
[16:20] <rick_h_> luca__: ok, so bundle tokens in the sidebar will be larger than charm tokens and show the icons below. They'll be a simple icon/name in autocomplete and be the generic icon for now.
[16:20] <luca__> rick_h_: thats fine
[16:20] <rick_h_> so really just the three sizes, sidebar, fullscreen (for now), and autocomplete
[16:20] <luca__> rick_h_: ok
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_: do you need assets?
[16:21] <rick_h_> luca__: no, I can use the bundle token svg. I think that's the only *asset* needed right now.
[16:21] <rick_h_> luca__: I'm also noticing the orange 'selected' is moved to the left?
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_:  ok
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_:  that is correct
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: due to the orange triangle
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: ok cool. I think I'm good for now. I'm sure something else will come up.
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: ah, that makes sense
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: which you should be implementing soon :D
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: glad to be back :P
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: /nudge /nudge /wink /wink
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: rofl welcome back, you was missed :D
[16:23] <Makyo> bac, I...uh...had other problems with lightweight checkouts.  I may have been lying about what I found.
[16:23]  * Makyo quietly rebuilds dev evn <.<  >.>
[16:23] <bac> Makyo: ok.
[16:24] <gary_poster> frankban, hey https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fcf9a8c4670d9c371763980ac16e8f3ba7de77b2
[16:24] <gary_poster> oh frankban actually lets go to the meeting one
[16:24] <gary_poster> the next one
[16:24] <frankban> gary_poster: ok joining
[16:24] <gary_poster> frankban, if not clear, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4dc220a25e4e00a204f48f8e64644c392635a78d
[16:28] <hatch> Makyo: much better :) just qa'ing
[16:35] <hatch> bcsaller: so are you going to tackle the bundle details page or did you want me to take that branch back?
[16:36] <bcsaller> hatch: Oh, feel free, I still have a little time on this one
[16:37] <hatch> ok I'm going to move the visualization integration into a separate card
[16:38] <bcsaller> hatch: there is a different card for that already
[16:38] <hatch> oh ok
[16:38] <hatch> refreshing
[16:47] <Makyo> hatch, thanks! Big diff against trunk, re-qaing before I land.
[16:47] <hatch> Makyo: oh ok yes plz do :)
[16:51] <hatch> rick_h_: do you have a second to explain to me what's going on with this token? I'm trying to find what handles the click event? It doesn't appear to be the container or the token?
[16:52] <rick_h_> hatch: sure thing
[16:59] <rick_h_> bac: can you join us for a sec? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/59268b0ddde3ebb3799023f43c35e7d5d1a2f80b?hl=en
[17:07] <gary_poster> Makyo, congrats on eagle landing :-)
[17:08] <Makyo> gary_poster, haha, thanks :)  it'll be good to have in the GUI
[17:08] <gary_poster> definitely!
[17:12] <hatch> jujugui does anyone know what a bundle id is?
[17:12] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki says ~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:12] <hatch> so does that mean there is no reference to the Ubuntu version?
[17:12] <hatch> or that it's a bundle?
[17:13] <gary_poster> hatch currently that would be jc:~bac/wiki/wiki IIRC.  Also, see this page:
[17:14] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/~bac/bundle/wiki/wiki
[17:14] <gary_poster> oh.  apparently it is jc:~bac/wiki/3/wiki  ?
[17:14] <gary_poster> that's a bit odd
[17:14] <gary_poster> since it is against charms
[17:15] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, looking at the api to see what charmworld wants for an ID to be passed to locate a charm and get its details
[17:15] <rick_h_> so /api/3/xxx/yyy/zzz
[17:15] <hatch> yeah basically I need to know what the ID is so that I know how to parse it
[17:16] <gary_poster> hatch do you have url for an api 3 search result?  that would probably tell us what we need to know
[17:16] <gary_poster> oh there we go
[17:16] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[17:17] <rick_h_> gary_poster: do they not have a series info on them?
[17:17] <gary_poster> no rick_h_ there is only one series, bundle.  So here I have something for you
[17:18] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, trying to figure out from the api docs http://charmworld.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html#terminology to actual calls how things map up to build urls
[17:18] <gary_poster> this is the kind of result you get from a search: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6176395/
[17:18] <gary_poster> e.g. you go to http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/search and search for "bac" (don't do this, it loads everything :-P)
[17:19] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, what's a 'basket' then? Just a grouping so I might have a bunch of bundles in my rharding basket?
[17:19] <gary_poster> rick_h_, basket is deployer file
[17:19] <gary_poster> rick_h_, deployer files can contain multiple bundles
[17:19] <gary_poster> so they decided to call deployer files baskets
[17:19] <rick_h_> so you might have multiple bundles in a single deployer file...ah that starts to fit
[17:20] <rick_h_> ok, so the bundle details view might have multiple bundles in it?
[17:20] <gary_poster> so if you look at ~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:20] <rick_h_> or are we only working on one at a time?
[17:20] <gary_poster> ~bac is the owner of course
[17:20] <gary_poster> wiki is the basket
[17:20] <gary_poster> sorry, the first one is.  3 is the basket revision
[17:20] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, ok. so we're dealing with one at a time.
[17:20] <gary_poster> and the second "wiki" is the bundle name
[17:20] <gary_poster> yes
[17:20] <hatch> so what should the url be then? on jujucharms.com ?
[17:21] <hatch> jujucharms.com/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki ?
[17:21] <rick_h_> so to ID it we'd need to know it's a bundle, the basket, the owner, the revision, and the name of the bundle in the basket
[17:21] <gary_poster> yeah
[17:23] <gary_poster> rick_h_, both of these work:
[17:23] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:23] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[17:23] <gary_poster> so if you don't have revision you can get head
[17:24] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, because rev is HEAD
[17:24] <gary_poster> yeah
[17:25] <abentley> jcsackett: Looks like it landed fine, I'll update the revno now.
[17:25] <jcsackett> abentley: yes; i'm sorry were you waiting for me to confirm?
[17:26] <abentley> jcsackett: No, I was on lunch.
[17:26] <jcsackett> abentley: well ok then. :-)
[17:27] <rick_h_> gary_poster: can you join us then for a sec?
[17:28] <rick_h_> hatch: has a valid question
[17:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: or not if you're busy :)
[17:28] <hatch> rare...I know
[17:28] <hatch> lol
[17:28] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:28] <rick_h_> or benji or bac if they're free.
[17:28] <gary_poster> what url rick_h_
[17:28] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/59268b0ddde3ebb3799023f43c35e7d5d1a2f80b?hl=en
[17:40] <rick_h_> gary_poster: are all bundles required to have an owner? e.g. no ~charmers default? Or is that not true
[17:49] <hatch> jujugui I've noticed that the failures for api restarting have lasted a very long time now, do we know if any changes were made to alter that code or is canonistack just being itself?
[17:49] <Makyo> We could just use https://www.google.com/webdesigner/ for the GUI.
[17:50] <hatch> google is making Dreamweaver, what? lol
[17:52] <gary_poster> rick_h_, don't quite understand your question.  ~charmers may own a bundle.  The "promulgated" flag determines whether that bundle is the recommended one, as with charms
[17:52] <gary_poster> hatch that looks like Canonistack to me :-(
[17:52] <gary_poster> either that or juju
[17:53] <gary_poster> but probably canonistack
[17:53] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ok, so having a bundle without a ~owner is legit as it is in the case of a charm.
[17:53] <gary_poster> rick_h_, oh I see, yes.  promugated.
[17:53] <gary_poster> l
[17:53] <rick_h_> gary_poster: since bundles weren't in LP I wasn't sure how that worked out. If all bundle urls would requie an explicit ~owner
[17:55] <gary_poster> rick_h_, bundles are in LP.  See "Branch" in http://staging.jujucharms.com/~bac/bundle/wiki/wiki for instance
[17:55] <gary_poster> (links to https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charms/bundles/wiki/bundle)
[17:55]  * gary_poster needs to go to lunch :-)
[17:57]  * gary_poster goes to lunch and a walk
[17:57] <hatch> enjoy!
[17:57] <abentley> bac, jcsackett: I believe Jenkins is fully restored now.  Please ping if you have any problems.
[18:01] <bac> thanks abentley
[18:02] <abentley> bac: np
[18:02] <bac> rick_h_, hatch: have you seen https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/17bgbReU6JJMoUHSJeo8egG5zoSM0fpPIs7U8F1-Piyk/edit
[18:03] <rick_h_> bac: no, good to know
[18:05] <hatch> rick_h_: looks like they do want `bundle` in the url
[18:05] <rick_h_> hatch: so they want it in the charmworld url, doesn't mean we need it in the gui url
[18:06] <hatch> see Actual Example URLS
[18:06] <rick_h_> hatch: so the browser Store object will need to build that correctly
[18:06] <rick_h_> hatch: right, those are all charmworld urls
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: staging/manage are charmworld
[18:07] <hatch> no they are on jujucharms.com it says
[18:07] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/ is not the gui
[18:07] <hatch> ohh damn woops I totally didn't even click on that
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: ah, I see that there's a GUI url there
[18:07] <hatch> and yeah
[18:07] <hatch> lol
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: but I'm sure we can negotiate
[18:08] <rick_h_> hatch: the smaller we can make it the better
[18:08] <hatch> my issue with these user readable urls is that they aren't really readable at all haha
[18:08] <hatch> they might be 'pretty' but not really readable
[18:08] <hatch> unless of course you know what you are looking for
[18:08] <rick_h_> hatch: well, sharable, twitter, printable on flyer -able
[18:08] <hatch> :)
[18:09] <rick_h_> hatch: but yea, that's been the curse with what we HAVE to have vs what is really human readable
[18:11] <hatch> rick_h_: see (where your cursor is) the valid urls
[18:11] <hatch> (or so I am assuming)
[18:11] <hatch> I don't know if we can do all of those without /bundle/
[18:11] <rick_h_> hatch: just closed it.
[18:12] <hatch> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/17bgbReU6JJMoUHSJeo8egG5zoSM0fpPIs7U8F1-Piyk/edit#
[18:12] <rick_h_> hatch: calling
[18:17] <rick_h_> bac benji gary_poster so there's a bundle series but it's not part of the id?
[18:18] <benji> rick_h_: are you asking if that is the case or why that is the case?
[18:18] <rick_h_> benji: I guess both. Is this true and intentionally true
[18:19] <bac> the 'series' is part of the id.  it is just always 'bundle'
[18:19] <benji> yes to both
[18:19] <benji> since it will never change, making it part of the ID didn't make much sense
[18:19] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki series is precise?
[18:19] <bac> ah, i was referring to the url
[18:20] <rick_h_> so can I get a precise and a saucy version of the bundle for bac's wiki?
[18:20] <rick_h_> it would seem no since series isn't part of the url/id?
[18:20] <rick_h_> unlike charms
[18:21] <benji> right, bundles aren't segmented into series
[18:21] <hatch> but they have a series property?
[18:22] <hatch> so you need a new deployer or bundle for different serieses?
[18:23] <benji> I don't know why they would have a series property.  I can't see what it would mean.
[18:23] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[18:23] <rick_h_> benji: that's our confusion
[18:23] <hatch> it's there?
[18:23] <benji> hatch: define "it" and "there"
[18:23] <hatch> series
[18:23] <hatch> in the result of the api call
[18:24] <benji> hatch: yep, it's returned from the URL you gave
[18:29] <hatch> benji: so bundles DO have a series, but the only way for a user to determine that is not by the ID but by inspecting its details
[18:30] <hatch> an author will need to make different bundles for different series
[18:30] <rick_h_> benji: yea, but you said it makes no sense for bundles to have a revision so it confused us that the api call provided one, yet it's not part of the id to have multiple revisions of the same bundle
[18:30] <benji> I'd say that bundles having a series is a bug.
[18:30] <rick_h_> benji: ok, makes sense now. Thanks for the clear up
[18:31] <hatch> benji: ok so would the author make a new deployer or new bundles for series?
[18:31] <hatch> precise-wordpress, saucy-wordpress etc etc
[18:31] <bcsaller> are we sure bundles are limited to a series?
[18:31] <bcsaller> I'm not
[18:32] <hatch> well the parts in it are
[18:32] <hatch> so if you're using 'precise' charms the bundle only works on precise
[18:32] <hatch> well
[18:33] <benji> hatch: it would depend on their goal; I wouldn't be surprised if some name them according to series
[18:33] <bcsaller> hatch: a bundle is more than one charm, they might not all be the same series, maybe LTS with the DB but new series for some new appserver
[18:33] <benji> that makes me wonder if juju supports mixed series environments
[18:34] <hatch> bcsaller: right - but is that supported?
[18:34] <bcsaller> I thought it did
[18:34] <bcsaller> we can check on another channel, but we did used to be able to do this
[18:35] <hatch> benji: is the charm api going to match the bundle one at some point? re the revision being /3/ instead of -3 ?
[18:35] <rick_h_> bcsaller: yea, I don't think anything stops it. It's just confusing and as benji says can be considered a bug
[18:35] <rick_h_> bcsaller: the charms define what series they are in their definitinos and can be corss series, though I'm not sure how juju would do with bringing up the 'right' series  images for each charm
[18:35] <benji> hatch: I'm not aware of any plans to do that.  I'm also not aware of the difference being intentional, but I would suspect it was.
[18:35] <bcsaller> bundles can include a default series to resolve charms from, but they can include explicit charm urls as well
[18:36] <rick_h_> bcsaller: but urls incldue the series. It's never optional
[18:36] <benji> ah, so "series" is really "default charm series"
[18:36] <bcsaller> rick_h_: it used to be, but maybe not anymore
[18:36] <bcsaller> rick_h_: and what if they say -HEAD
[18:36] <bcsaller> I guess that would still have series though
[18:37] <hatch> then you're cray-cray
[18:37] <hatch> but yeah :)
[18:37] <bcsaller> really? package.json says things like that
[18:37] <rick_h_> bcsaller: so revision is different. We have allowed that to be ignored, -HEAD, or an int
[18:37] <hatch> bcsaller: I know - and I wish that they would delete every module without locked down deps from npm :)
[18:38] <bcsaller> hatch: and maybe for packages that makes sense, but charms are configuration and runtime flow around packages and usually not a specific version but any in that series
[18:38] <bcsaller> and so the newest is usually expected to be the best one
[18:39] <hatch> well that's the same everywhere but that's not always the case
[18:40] <hatch> buut anyways - as long as Juju can deploy each charm to the proper series that's alright
[18:40] <hatch> not sure how it'll know which one to deploy on the providers
[18:41] <hatch> but I'm sure there is an answer for that
[19:06] <gary_poster> the charm is for a series
[19:07] <hatch> gary_poster: right, but if a bundle contains charms for multiple series does Juju handle deploying it to the proper series?
[19:07] <gary_poster> hatch, yes.
[19:08] <hatch> that's pretty coooooool
[19:08] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:17] <BradCrittenden> benji: for a bundle to be 'featured' it must first be promulgated, right?
[19:18] <benji> bac: that is my understanding
[19:18] <bac> benji: and what's the process for marking it promulgated?
[19:19] <benji> bac: If I recall correctly, there is none. :/
[19:19] <bac> \o/
[19:19] <bac> well, my work here is done
[19:19] <bac> benji: ok, so i'll write a killer test and we'll just hope it works in real life
[19:19] <benji> heh
[19:24] <hatch> rick_h_: do you remember where the app makes the XHR request to get the charm data?
[19:24] <rick_h_> hatch: that's all in the Store object.
[19:24] <rick_h_> hatch: the Store is theonly thing allowed to make calls to charmworld
[19:25] <hatch> ok because this is what I have right now https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/charm/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[19:25] <hatch> so I need to make the 'charm' part optional
[19:25] <rick_h_> hatch: so api3 should already provide the calls
[19:25] <rick_h_> hatch: just a matter of getting it the data
[19:26] <rick_h_> hatch: actually, don't see bundle calls, so maybe it needs a new call for bundle vs charm()
[19:26] <gary_poster> benji, bac, to make a charm promulgated, you log onto charm world as a charmer and you have the ability to bless a charm.  I would guess it is the same for bundles.  There is a UX for that now for charms.
[19:27] <rick_h_> gary_poster: that's for 'featured' but not promulgated. I thought that was part of the LP/branch process?
[19:27] <gary_poster> I don't know whether it exists for bundles. Do you all?
[19:28] <hatch> who chose the word promulgated? lol
[19:28] <gary_poster> rick_h_, I may be confused then.  I don't know what promulgated means then.  bac, benji, I think this is something to clarify with Rick and/or Orange squad.
[19:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, abentley do you know what the rules are for promulgated and bundles?
[19:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: originally, any charm owned by ~charmers was promulgated
[19:29] <rick_h_> and the UI is to feature things which show up in the featured section on the front page
[19:29] <rick_h_> then the promulgation rules changed so that the juju gui charm could be 'reviewed' even though ~charmers didn't own it
[19:29] <rick_h_> I'm not sure how that was implemented in the end
[19:30] <gary_poster> rick_h_, oh and by featured you mean added to the list of editorially gardened featured charms
[19:30] <abentley> rick_h_: I believe the charms in any basket that's linked to a series are considered promulgated.
[19:30] <rick_h_> gary_poster: correct
[19:30] <abentley> rick_h_: s/charms/bundles/
[19:30] <rick_h_> gary_poster: benji bac ^
[19:30] <gary_poster> abentley, rick_h_ how do you link something to a series?
[19:31] <gary_poster> (in this case the bundles series?)
[19:31] <rick_h_> gary_poster: well that gets interesting when bundles don't have a series. Except benji said they did have a series and it was always bundle
[19:31] <gary_poster> right, they do, they have a single static series
[19:31] <rick_h_> so that definition/workings might need some shake down
[19:31] <abentley> gary_poster: I don't know.  sinzui? ^^
[19:31] <rick_h_> might need two? bundle/promulgated?
[19:31] <rick_h_> no sinzui here atm
[19:32] <abentley> rick_h_: No, there's a different between having a series and being linked to it.
[19:32] <rick_h_> I've ping'd sinzui to jump in here for a sec if he's got a minute
[19:32] <rick_h_> abentley: gotcha
[19:32] <abentley> rick_h_: All sourcepackage branches *have* a series, but only one branch is linked to it, typically ~charmers/*/trunk
[19:33] <rick_h_> thanks sinzui
[19:33] <rick_h_> sinzui: so the question came up about how to mark a bundle as promulgated
[19:33] <sinzui> You don't
[19:34] <rick_h_> sinzui: and abentley mentioned that linking a branch to a series does it currently, and we were wondering how that was done/worked?
[19:34] <rick_h_> currently meaning for charms
[19:34] <abentley> rick_h_: Oh, for charms they use a script.
[19:34] <sinzui> Members of ~charmers can run charm-promulgate to that links a branch to series package in Lp
[19:34] <sinzui> only they can run it.
[19:35] <sinzui> They can also do in the Lp UI, though I doubt they know that
[19:35] <rick_h_> sinzui: ah ok. And is/was there a plan for bundles and this?
[19:35] <sinzui> yes, though I have not read the script to know if it does something charmy
[19:36] <gary_poster> sinzui, we could ask them to do it via LP for bundles, though, it sounds like?
[19:36] <rick_h_> sinzui: cool, is the script in charmworld src to look at or just handed to someone? e.g. where can we find it?
[19:37] <sinzui> doesn't look like it enforces trunk
[19:37] <bac> rick_h_: not in charmworld afaict
[19:39] <sinzui> rick_h_, gary_poster, bac: I think they run charm-tools promulgate  -owner-branch lp:~user/charms/bundles/bundle-package/bundle --series bundles
[19:40] <rick_h_> sinzui: ah, part of charm tools. Very cool then.
[19:40] <gary_poster> cool, thanks sinzui!
[19:41] <sinzui> If it does not work, I think we can fix the script in a matter of minutes!
[19:49] <bac> thanks sinzui
[20:09] <hatch>  I'm looking for ideas as to what to call a bundle and a charm because 'charmview' is no longer a good name
[20:09] <hatch> chundle? :D
[20:11] <gary_poster> hatch, DeployableView
[20:11] <gary_poster> DeploymentView
[20:11] <bcsaller> BundleView?
[20:11] <gary_poster> It's supposed to handle both IIUC
[20:11] <gary_poster> charms and bundles
[20:12] <hatch> yeah it looks like they might share a lot of the same code
[20:12] <hatch> I'll know once I'm done to be sure
[20:12] <gary_poster> BundleOrCharmView might actually not be as bad as it seems :-)
[20:12] <hatch> haha
[20:12] <hatch> new BundleOrCharmView(yourGuessIsAsGoodAsMine); //mohohahahaha
[20:13] <bcsaller> lol
[20:13] <bcsaller> CharmworldEntityView
[20:13] <gary_poster> heh
[20:13] <gary_poster> (to the mohahaha etc.)
[20:14] <gary_poster> yeah bcsaller's is nice.  I like the stupid simplicity of BundleOrCharmView though :-)
[20:15] <hatch> yeah but everythign else we do is with big fancy words, like promulgated
[20:15] <bcsaller> or Stack ;)
[20:15] <hatch> so we can't just go lame on this one
[20:15] <hatch> hahaha
[20:15] <hatch> stack
[20:15] <hatch> lol
[20:15] <bcsaller> BundleOrCharmOrStackView ;)
[20:16] <hatch> lol
[20:16] <hatch> CharmworldEntityView sounds good, so does DeployableVIew though
[20:16] <hatch> well I guess I'll see if they do share enough code for it to matter
[20:17] <hatch> we don't need fullscreen views for this bundle view do we?
[20:17] <gary_poster> why wouldn't we hatch?
[20:17] <hatch> oh I thought it was going away
[20:17] <hatch> or not soon enough I guess
[20:17] <gary_poster> hatch yeah it is, but...exactly
[20:21]  * gary_poster updates hoping it doesn't kill his system, prior to restarting
[20:21] <gary_poster> If I never come back, I left a GUI charm branch for Antonio on Launchpad...
[20:22] <gary_poster> ...Jeff can have my horse...
[20:22] <hatch> yusssssss
[20:22] <gary_poster> ...and I leave my six-shooter to Benji...
[20:23] <bac> gary_poster: it looks like the webops have their hands full today and won't get to our charmworld RT.  benji has agreed to shepherd it tomorrow.
[20:23] <gary_poster> ok cool thanks bac.   :P
[20:31] <hatch> kik
[20:31] <hatch> lol
[20:35] <hatch> no...nothing? well I thought it was funny :)
[20:45] <gary_poster> :-P
[20:46]  * gary_poster restarts
[20:57] <hatch> man it's frustrating that bzr doesn't deal with renaming files well
[21:05] <bac> hatch: huh?
[21:07] <hatch> bac: it shows the whole file as a diff instead of a rename
[21:08] <hatch> so you lose all of your 'real' diff
[21:08] <bac> hatch: i think you've done something wrong.  did you use 'bzr mv'?
[21:08] <hatch> bac: no I just renamed the file
[21:08] <bac> even that should work.  put it back and then use 'bzr mv' to rename it.
[21:09] <hatch> ok will try that
[21:10] <bac> hatch: i'm not trying to convert you but generally when you find bzr doing something incredibly stupid then you may have done something where there is a different way that gives expected results.
[21:10] <gary_poster> +1 on all of that fwiw
[21:11] <hatch> re-proposing will see if it works this time
[21:11] <hatch> thanks
[21:11] <hatch> and yeah - you're probably right :)
[21:11] <hatch> the issue is that when you have a git problem, a quick google search solves everything, there just aren't that many q&a's for bzr I guess
[21:11] <hatch> most just point to the docs which don't help if you don't know what's happening :)
[21:12] <hatch> and actually I've seen this rename issue from others so I just assumed that's how it was :D
[21:14] <bac> benji or jujugui: one review of  https://codereview.appspot.com/14151043 please?
[21:14] <hatch> sure
[21:14]  * bac walks dog. will be back later.
[21:15]  * benji is too late.
[21:16] <hatch> bac: done
[21:16] <hatch> bac: doesn't look like that technique worked either https://codereview.appspot.com/14153043 diff is still the whole file
[21:19] <hatch> oh well I'll just update the description to point to where the changes were
[21:21] <bac> hatch: what does bzr diff say on your command line?
[21:22] <hatch> bac: `bzr diff --old ../../trunk | vim - ` shows me the same as what codereview says
[21:22] <hatch> so it must just deal with mv's as delete/create
[21:23] <hatch> instead of rename
[21:23] <bac> Makefile => makefile
[21:23] <bac> renamed:
[21:23] <bac>   Makefile => makefile
[21:23] <bac> [21:23] <bac> er, that's not right
[21:24] <hatch> and the diff shows nothing?
[21:24] <bac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6177338/
[21:25] <hatch> hmm that's odd
[21:25] <hatch> I did the exact same thing
[21:25] <hatch> I'll try reverting it and re-applying
[21:26] <hatch> bzr mv charm.js charmworld.js
[21:28] <hatch> bac:  odly enough https://gist.github.com/hatched/1ed747f2c33ba1a629ba
[21:28] <hatch> the output is very similar to what you said
[21:28] <hatch> s/said/had
[21:28] <hatch> but the diff still shows a full add/delete
[21:28] <gary_poster> that's just how it represents it in the diff, IIRC
[21:29] <gary_poster> I'm running away.  Juju local conquered me again. :-/
[21:29] <gary_poster> ttyl
[21:29] <hatch> gary_poster: ohhh ok I gotcha
[21:29] <hatch> cya
[21:29] <hatch> wow they have some big hardware outside digging up the road, shaking the whole house haha
[21:39] <hatch> rick_h_: hey if you pop your head in here could you take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/14153043 and let me know if this is on the right track for your impl
[22:43] <rick_h_> hatch: dinner and such atm but will peek later tonight.
[22:43] <hatch> yeah no rush
[23:00] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:22] <hatch> mornin huwshimi
[23:22] <hatch> what's Tuesday like?
[23:23] <huwshimi> hatch: Rainy
[23:23] <hatch> yeah that's what I'm hearing :/


[05:14] <akhil_> When I try to open a jnlp file ( http://www.topcoder.com/contest/aren...ppletProd.jnlp ) I get the following error messasge:
[05:14] <akhil_> netx: Launch Error: Could not launch JNLP file. (java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException null) (java.lang.SecurityException Changing the SecurityManager is not allowed.)
[05:14] <akhil_> I am using Ubuntu 8.04.
[07:04] <rivasdiaz> akhil_: the address is not complete so I couldn't download the JNLP to verify it, but it seems like a security problem. "Changing SecurityManager is not allowed" tell me that the java application is trying to instantiate a new SecurityManager which is not possible under JNLP 'cause there is a SecurityManager already instantiated
[10:05] <kroiz> Hi, I am tring to import org.antlr.runtime to my simple java program and I am given the message that the package does not exist.
[10:07] <kroiz> I added to my $CLASSPATH all the jars that I located with antlr.


[15:44] <zeripath> tomreyn: so yeah hp-wmi is a module in my kernel but it won't modprobe it seems.
[15:44] <zeripath> ah
[15:44] <zeripath> I am an idiot
[15:45] <zeripath> hp_wmi does modprobe
[15:45] <zeripath> It becomes hp_wmi not hp-wmi
[16:09] <tomreyn> zeripath: right, i forgot to do the conversion.
 hmm should have been a module though?   grep HP_WMI /boot/config-$(uname -r)    tells me CONFIG_HP_WMI=m
 ubuntu 18.04 with HWE (linux 5.3)
[16:10] <tomreyn> i'm not sure what the exact sysfs path to look at would be, though
[16:12] <zeripath> So yeah I've been able to get that module installed in to my kernel - I'm just trying to figure out how to use it
[16:13] <zeripath> I suspect I have to write additional functionality --
[16:13] <zeripath> for example if I press the Omen key - which is where Home should be I get a hp_wmi: bad event status 0x5
[17:46] <zeripath> tomreyn: it looks like I might have to try kernel at least 5.4.7
[17:47] <zeripath> I get a lot of ACPI Error: Field [D128] at bit offset/length 128/1024 exceeds size of target Buffer (160 bits) (20181213/dsopcode-197)
[17:47] <zeripath> with that module
[17:48] <zeripath> but damn I have a bloody nvidia card
[17:49] <zeripath> ARGH so I can't just randomly move to a newer kernel
[18:02] <tomreyn> zeripath: exactly the ACPI errors i referred to above
[18:04] <zeripath> yeah sorry
[18:04] <zeripath> I don't think they are the issue for the backlight but it would make testing difficult.
[18:05] <zeripath> Is there any chance that the fixes of 5.4.7 will be backported to the eoan line?
[18:05] <tomreyn> chances are focal will release with linux 5.5, and if it will, there'll be a LTSE / HWE backport for ubuntu 18.04 LTS for it, which will most likely get compatible nvidia drivers.
[18:05] <tomreyn> i can't tell about the backports, i'm not an ubuntu kernel dev.
[18:06] <tomreyn> if you filed a bug report you'd likely increse the chances of it being considered
[18:07] <zeripath> I'll have to figure out how to report a bug on launchpad then...
[18:08] <zeripath> I guess the other thing is to see how focal is doing...
[18:10] <tomreyn> zeripath: "ubuntu-bug" / "apport" - general support would be in #ubuntu if you have any questions
[18:10] <tomreyn> try doing both?
[18:17] <zeripath> heh
[18:17] <zeripath> I've done the ubuntu-bug thing
[18:38] <zeripath> Ah So actually this is a seriously simple fix
[18:41] <zeripath> I've applied the patches<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:41] <zeripath> to a private dkms'd thing
[18:41] <zeripath> and the error goes bye bye
[18:44] <tomreyn> oh you already posted those to the bug report, now we got two ;)
[18:45] <tomreyn> your dmesg is not short of ACPI errors in general
[18:48] <tomreyn> is the bios from september the latest?
[18:50] <tomreyn> there's F.14 (you have F.13) at https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/omen-by-hp-15-dc1000-laptop-pc-series/26122182/swItemId/ob-243598-1
[18:51] <tomreyn> but it only seem to be the latest intel microcode update
[18:52] <zeripath> yeah that was my thought
[18:52] <zeripath> Can we install that firmware without having to go to windows
[18:52] <tomreyn> there's also this separate IC update https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/omen-by-hp-15-dc1000-laptop-pc-series/26122182/swItemId/ob-227043-2
[18:52] <zeripath> a lot of the errors might be because I was adding and removing the hp-wmi module
[18:53] <tomreyn> only if HP provides linux support for this system, via their support website, or through fwupd.org
[18:54] <tomreyn> yes there are really only two classes of ACṔI errors you have. one is about hp-wmi
[18:55] <tomreyn> the other seems to be about the usb hub
[19:11] <zeripath> yeah
[20:45] <zeripath> SO I
[20:45] <zeripath> have managed to hack the hp-wmi driver to return the values of my leds
[20:45] <zeripath> woot
[20:45] <zeripath> cat /sys/devices/platform/hp-wmi/keyboardleds                     [20:45:46]
[20:45] <zeripath> #7da247 #42adff #ffaee2 #27b6ff
[20:46] <zeripath> I just need to decide on how they are supposed to be returned and then I'll try storing them again...
[22:30] <zeripath> damn that wasn't real


[00:45] <nacc> cpaelzer: hrm, i was able to backport the patches so kopanocore buillds, but now it's faililg dep8, willl debug before you need to review
[02:46] <zzz> hi. im trying to figure out why df and lsblk output is incompatible for an internal drive. fs shows 472M Size, however lsblk correctly shows a 15G partition
[02:46] <zzz> *df
[02:48] <TJ-> zzz: partitions and file-systems can be different sizes
[02:56] <zzz> TJ- how can i make the file system 15G? the drive is empty
[02:59] <sarnold> are you *confident* it's empty? this feels weird
[03:00] <yer> any sendmail gurus in here
[03:01] <TJ-> zzz: if the partition contains the file-system it suggests you've enlarged the partition at some point
[03:01] <zzz> no. old eee pc with 2 internal ssd: 4G + 15G
[03:01] <zzz> clean ubuntu server install
[03:02] <TJ-> zzz: best to show us: "pastebinit <( lsblk; df )"
[03:02] <zzz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26503665/
[03:02] <zzz> sdb1 is the part in question
[03:03] <zzz> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26503670/ for humans
[03:05] <zzz> im not experienced with this stuff
[03:06] <sarnold> "timemachine" .. is this an HFS+ or similar filesystem? do you care about it's contents at all?
[03:09] <zzz> no, it's ext4. i just mounted it for macos' time machine but it uses a sparse bundle
[03:09] <zzz> dont care about contents at all
[03:11] <sarnold> alright; I *think* you can probably just umount /media/timemachine ; mke2fs -t ext4 -j /dev/sdb1
[03:11] <sarnold> I haven't driven mke2fs by hand in ages..
[03:13] <TJ-> zzz: if it's ext you can just do "sudo resize2fs /dev/sdb1" without un-mounting it
[03:14] <TJ-> ext can do online resize for extending, but not shrinking
[03:14] <zzz> thanks guys. i'm reading up on it jut to feel safe. any idea of what couldve caused smth like this?
[03:14] <sarnold> I thought about that, but didn't want to shortchange the filesystem on inodes.
[03:15] <sarnold> zzz: the easiest way I could think of to create this would be to dd a filesystem from one tiny partition to this partition.
[03:27] <zzz> ok it seems to have solved it
[03:28] <zzz> how can i ever repay you
[03:28] <sarnold> pass it along :)
[03:28] <zzz> you know i will. thank you
[03:29] <sarnold> you're welcome ;) have fun
[04:40] <yer> any network guys in here?
[04:41] <yer> got a TL-R600VPN router doin some weird shit
[04:43] <yer> keeps setting a IP adress to be a DMZ host, and its an address that we have never used .... port forwardings appearing by them selfs
[04:43] <yer> selves
[04:43] <yer> scary
[06:41] <cpaelzer> nacc: all the qemu train blocks on the new queue with src:ipxe-qemu-256k-compat
[06:41] <cpaelzer> nacc: I'm on it in the sense that I ping infinity on a daily base who said he is gonna take a look
[06:45] <cpaelzer> waiting with kopano until you set status to ready-to-review then
[07:01] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:23] <jamespage> coreycb: the wireshark pkg-config in xenial is foobar - so I'm going to patch out the wireshark support from libvirt for the xenial/queens backport
[08:23] <jamespage> we don't need that for openstack...
[08:37] <davidjmemmett_> Morning all
[08:38] <davidjmemmett_> Has anyone else experienced any freezes using artful on EC2 (using c5 instances)? I can sometimes boot a machine, sometimes it hangs forever, sometimes it freezes and dies after a few minutes
[09:52] <rbasak> davidjmemmett_: yes, on this channel
[09:53] <rbasak> davidjmemmett_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sssd/+bug/1746806
[10:00] <davidjmemmett_> Yup, that’s the one, cheers rbasak
[10:02] <rbasak> davidjmemmett_: please mark yourself as affected
[10:02] <davidjmemmett_> Will do
[10:04] <rbasak> davidjmemmett_: is it sssd related for you as well?
[10:05] <davidjmemmett_> Yes, using it for LDAP with
[10:05] <davidjmemmett_> ^auth
[10:05] <rbasak> Please could you comment on the bug? The data point is useful I think.
[10:05] <rbasak> Since it could be a kernel regression or a latent sssd bug merely exposed by a newer kernel
[10:06] <rbasak> If everyone affected says it's only with sssd, then that points to an sssd bug. OTOH if we get reports from users not using sssd, then more likely a kernel bug.
[10:48] <jamespage> coreycb: just tripped on that missing deb dbgsym thing with libvirt in queens-staging
[11:38] <coreycb> jamespage: afaik it's not due to debhelper or dh-autoreconf. It recreated with artful versions of those.
[11:40] <coreycb> jamespage: also turned on dbgsyms in a xenial-pike ppa and had no problem building the queens python-coverage
[11:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: hi, thanks for the zstd feedback, I'm looking into it now
[11:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: a question
[11:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: "Rather than "dist-upgrade" on Xenial, could you please check that the new zstd is pulled in on a plain "apt-get upgrade" and via the update manager? "
[11:41] <rbasak> o/
[11:41] <jamespage> coreycb: hmm so its a mix of newer debhelpers + ppa with debug symbols enabled?
[11:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: when you say update-manager, you mean the desktop UI thingy that prompts for upgrades?
[11:41] <rbasak> ahasenack: right
[11:41] <ahasenack> ok
[11:41] <rbasak> ahasenack: because that's the most common use case, right?
[11:42] <ahasenack> I suppose :)
[11:42] <rbasak> I ask because I know dist-upgrade can be more clever. But we need the zstd update to work even when users don't use dist-upgrade for the entire SRU to be useful, AIUI.
[11:43] <rbasak> And I don't know off the top of my head exactly what update-manager does.
[11:43] <ahasenack> I'll start with upgrade
[11:43] <ahasenack> thanks
[11:43] <ahasenack> I rarely use upgrade nowadays, indeed
[11:43] <rbasak> If someone says "it definitely does the equivalent of 'apt-get upgrade' and 'apt-get upgrade' works" and I believe this person then no need to test :)
[11:43] <ahasenack> I'm happy with dist-upgrade's behavior of stopping and showing what NEW packages it would install
[11:44] <ahasenack> nah, the test is easy
[11:44] <ahasenack> I don't mind it
[11:44] <ahasenack> I just don't know what to do if it fails :)
[11:44] <rbasak> As long as you understand why I'm asking :)
[11:44] <ahasenack> s/don't/won't/
[11:44] <rbasak> Yeah I don't know either
[11:45] <ahasenack> I remember in the past apt upgrade pulling in new packages. It probably depends (hah)
[11:47] <coreycb> jamespage: seems so, maybe it's one of the other debhelper deps that was backported
[11:47] <jamespage> coreycb: might be - just trying something else
[11:48] <jamespage> alot of the behaviour in a PPA is PPA specific so I'm wondering whether this is generally broken
[11:48] <jamespage> for later debhelper revs in PPA's with debug symbols enabled...
[12:32] <ahasenack> rbasak: apt upgrade and desktop GUI upgrade tests passed, looking at your other points now
[12:32] <ahasenack> (I updated the bug)
[13:15] <jamespage> coreycb: its a dpkg/debhelper incompat
[13:15] <jamespage> debhelper is doing something new with regards to ddeb's
[13:15] <jamespage> dpkg carries:
[13:15] <jamespage>     - dpkg-gencontrol: Fix Package-Type override handling for ddeb support.
[13:16] <coreycb> jamespage: aha, that looks like it
[13:17] <coreycb> jamespage: do you wan to attempt backporting dpkg?
[13:17] <coreycb> want
[13:17] <coreycb> jamespage: reviewing pxc 5.7 now btw
[13:23] <jamespage> coreycb: hmm
[13:23] <jamespage> maybe
[13:25] <ahasenack> rbasak: replied in the MP about --devunversioned, and you are right about the missing dh_auto_build bit in bionic (also replied in the MP). Will fix the later and push
[13:35] <jamespage> coreycb: debhelper @ 10.2.5ubuntu2 is where the behavioural change for ddebs happened - requiring a new dpkg for compat
[13:37] <coreycb> jamespage: ok. just noticed we have 10.2.2 in pike.
[13:37] <jamespage> coreycb: not entirely convinced I want dpkg in the UCA
[13:38] <jamespage> coreycb: yeah that does the old style ddeb generation
[13:38] <coreycb> jamespage: yeah
[13:38] <jamespage> kinda two choice here - either we do something with dpkg or we switch UCA debhelper back to the old style
[13:39] <coreycb> jamespage: old style seems sensible
[13:47] <ahasenack> rbasak: pushed, and the ppa is building a new bionic test upload with that as well (https://launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+archive/ubuntu/zstd-backport-1717040/+packages)
[13:47] <ahasenack> it takes a while because the tests are run at build time, and they are a bit long
[13:49] <jamespage> coreycb: ok I think I figured out where to tweak that
[13:55] <rbasak> ahasenack: ack
[14:10] <jamespage> coreycb: https://launchpad.net/~james-page/+archive/ubuntu/queens/+build/14300947 rebuilding with debhelper patches
[14:11] <jamespage> coreycb: I forgot how much hassle the final UCA pocket for an Ubuntu LTS is
[14:11] <jamespage> 2 years of deltas...
[14:12] <coreycb> jamespage: sure is. we can reset to just backporting to bionic next release.
[14:12] <coreycb> jamespage: hopefully ppa builds are faster today. they were painfully slow yesterday.
[14:13] <jamespage> coreycb: yup
[14:13] <jamespage> nice easy peasy
[14:13] <jamespage> coreycb: ca-patches per pocket - http://paste.ubuntu.com/26505879/
[14:13] <coreycb> jamespage: i see a trend :)
[14:46] <jamespage> coreycb: bah so close with debhelper - now generating .deb for dbgsym, but ddeb into the control file...
[14:46]  * jamespage sighs
[14:49] <jamespage> coreycb: ok take 10
[14:49] <coreycb> jamespage: lol
[14:49] <jamespage> I think I see what needs to happen
[14:51] <jamespage> coreycb: maybe just run those pxc maintainer scripts through https://github.com/mvdan/sh
[14:52] <coreycb> jamespage: oh nice
[14:52] <coreycb> jamespage: will do
[14:54] <jamespage> coreycb: I did
[14:54] <jamespage> pushed as new commit on my branch
[14:54] <coreycb> jamespage: ah thx
[16:12] <rbasak> ahasenack: could you edit the bug description according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libzstd/+bug/1717040/comments/44 please?
[16:12] <ahasenack> rbasak: sure
 hi ..
 i used openstack-telemetry charms .. 2 services got problem (mongodb & neutron-gateway)  .. juju status output : http://paste.ubuntu.com/26506527/
 mongodb log output: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26506520/
 neutron-gateway: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26506512/
[17:39] <rbasak> nacc: on your corosync question. Which particular path are you trying to tackle?
[17:45] <renatosilva> I occasionally get an email with title "test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )", why?
[17:46] <renatosilva> content says: "/etc/cron.daily/logrotate: Warning: apache2.service changed on disk. Run 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload units."
[17:47] <renatosilva> I want to understand how exactly this cron email has been activated since I can't remember doing this manually
[17:47] <dpb1> usually because apache2 has been updated, and it's asking you to reload the daemon
[17:48] <renatosilva> dpb1: that's what the message says, yes, meaning the auto-update I have configured is hopefully working but... I would expect the system to reload apache after _auto-updating on a server_
[17:49] <renatosilva> how was cron allowed to send me email? is that a default configuration?
[17:49] <renatosilva> why the system bothers me with this useless email about apache? why not just reload it?
[17:56] <dpb1> how often do you get it?
[17:57] <dpb1> not sure about cron "allowed" to send you an email.  that depends on how you have things configured.  I think by default it sends to the root user on the system, as a way of notifying you of what happened.  it's standard cron behavior
[17:57] <nacc> rbasak: i'm thinking that if pacemaer upgrades before corosynnc finishes (runs its postinst), we don't need the flag
[17:57] <nacc> rbasak: because a systemd unit that is partof the other will follow the state transitions
[17:58] <nacc> rbasak: in which case, we don't nened the /run flag for upgraders, as it will nnaturally be enforced (unless they modified the units manually, in which case it's a separate case)
[18:04] <rbasak> I wonder if a versioned Conflicts would suffice. But we don't usually use those, so I'd like someone to confirm that we actually want that and it won't have any inadvertent side-effects.
[18:05] <rbasak> Have the new corosync Conflict on older pacemaker (or vice versa).
[18:05] <rbasak> Then they can't even both be unpacked at once.
[18:05] <rbasak> Hopefully apt will resolve that to upgrade the pacemaker first.
[18:05] <rbasak> But is this really needed?
[18:06] <rbasak> I think we understand the Breaks path well, we have to use this path for older releases anyway, and it's only temporary.
[18:06] <rbasak> So while I think you're probably right, does doing it your way add additional risk and complexity?
[18:07] <rbasak> One issue with Conflicts is that it can be quite constraining in terms of possible upgrade paths, which is why AIUI it's generally frowned upon in favour of Breaks where possible.
[18:21] <nacc> rbasak: ok -- yeah, it was more about minimizing the delta
[18:21] <renatosilva> dpb1: ok, first I wanted to know how cron came up to doing it, that explains it then, it's, default config
[18:21] <nacc> rbasak: i agree with what you are saying, in principle (also for my own edification)
[18:22] <dpb1> renatosilva: yes, cron will email the result of any script that fails (returns a non-zero code) or has any output of any kind.  All other cases, it stays silent
[18:22] <renatosilva> dpb1: but it's a useless notification in this case, I wonder why isn't apache just reloaded instead
[18:22] <dpb1> renatosilva: how often do you get it
[18:24] <dpb1> renatosilva: a quick google search turns up that it could be simply a buggy update with systemd
[18:25] <renatosilva> dpb1: randomly really, enough to get me annoyed.... in the past I would get like a few a month, not sure... then it was quite some time since last occurrence, and today it came back... I believe it's as often as apache package gets auto-updated, and I had some time without it because I think auto-updates were just not working
[18:25] <dpb1> renatosilva: could it be tied to reboots?
[18:26] <renatosilva> unexpected reboots then, but I don't think so
[18:26] <dpb1> renatosilva: anyway, please file a bug against apache2 in ubuntu with this behavior
[18:26] <dpb1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+filebug
[18:27] <dpb1> you can even use `ubuntu-bug apache2` from the command line
[21:00] <coreycb> wolsen: jamespage: stable point releases are underway for newton, ocata, and pike. bug 1747067, bug 1747066, and bug 1747065.
[21:00] <wolsen> awesome coreycb - thanks much!
[21:00] <coreycb> wolsen: np!
[22:44] <nacc> powersj: how hard would it be to change our CI to use git-ubuntu.self-test from the built snap starting at https://code.launchpad.net/~nacc/usd-importer/+git/usd-importer/+merge/337104
[22:44] <nacc> or even as its own custom pipeline for now?
[22:45] <powersj> options 1) change nothing till you land 2) I could update the job manually and run it against that branch to get a result or 3) update the job now use that going forward
[22:45] <nacc> powersj: well, the problem is CI will fail with it
[22:45] <nacc> powersj: for 1)
[22:45] <powersj> a 2nd pipeline is, interesting, but would be rather confusing with multiple votes right?
[22:45] <nacc> yeah, i expect to see the old fail and the new succeed, if that makes sense
[22:45] <nacc> we would then decommision the old once this lands
[22:48] <nacc> powersj: we can also talk about it on monday with rbasak
[22:48] <nacc> dpb1: --^ just an fyi the above is delaying our phasing (not anyone's fault, just necessary changes)
[22:48] <powersj> how many open branches are there? is it a big concern to break older reviews?
[22:48] <nacc> I think I'm the only one trying to land anything right now :)
[22:49] <nacc> we can wait to see what rbasak thinks
[22:49] <powersj> then on Monday I would propose, let's get the CI happy with your branch and use that going forward
[22:49] <nacc> yeah i thin kthat's the right approach too
[22:56] <rbasak> nacc, powersj: I'm happy either way
[22:56] <nacc> rbasak: ok, i think the move to snap the scripts was easier than i expected
[22:56] <rbasak> As long as one of the two mechanisms is capable of passing when you're don e:)
[22:56] <nacc> rbasak: so we can do all the self-test for CI i the snap
[22:56] <nacc> lint + pytest of the gitubuntu/ dir
[22:56] <powersj> rbasak: go enjoy your friday night
[22:56] <powersj> :P
[22:57] <nacc> heh
[23:02] <rbasak> We've been enjoying online furniture shopping :)
[23:04] <dpb1> nacc: OK, let's chat about it on monday with powersj if you have some ideas
[23:10] <powersj> rbasak: would using the built snap's self-test imply that we no longer need the pipeline given we would get rid of the tox and pytest steps?
[23:11] <powersj> err that was meant for nacc ^
[23:11] <powersj> hopefully he continues his exhilarating furniture shopping ;)


[05:00] <DIRT> anyone know how to get broadcom drivers working with no internet? the live usb has the drivers but the broadcom drivers dont install
[05:01] <well_laid_lawn> DIRT:  tried modprobing them ?
[05:02] <well_laid_lawn> you may have the wrong module loading which will need blacklisting
[05:07] <DIRT> havent tried modprobe.
[05:12] <DIRT> when i look at lsmod i see brcmsmac listed
[05:18] <DIRT> nope. it needs a firmware. instaling the debs off the usb drive doesnt work they just install the driver located elsewhere in the /
[05:18] <DIRT> wich isnt on my install
[06:24] <DIRT> downloaded a deb that had the firmware packaged works.
[06:25] <DIRT> also what works is not connecting to the internet, telling the installer to install 3rd party packages, and that installs the broadcom driver.
[06:26] <DIRT> if i connect to the internet 3rd party drivers dont work but could have been internet cutting out
[08:35] <diogenes_> finally after so many years apt autoremove actually purges the old kernels
[09:27] <xubuntu18i_fred> hello
[09:28] <Spass> hello xubuntu18i_fred
[09:29] <xubuntu18i_fred> i have a big prob
[09:30] <xubuntu18i_fred> after an update from 16.04.3 to 18.04 nor keyboard nor mouse at login screen
[09:32] <pmjdebru1jn> can you switch to a console using (Ctrl+Alt+F1) ?
[09:33] <pmjdebru1jn> does the keyboard/mouse work when you boot 18.04 from a live-usb/cd?
[09:33] <xubuntu18i_fred> nope, the keyboard is off (also the caps lock, numlock) and no mouse
[09:33] <pmjdebru1jn> is there anything special with your keyboard/mouse? is it a laptop? are the keyboard/mouse connected via a usb hub, or directly to the system
[09:34] <pmjdebru1jn> xubuntu18i_fred: does botting the older kernel from 16.04 via GRUB fix things?
[09:34] <xubuntu18i_fred> yes everything is ok with a live usb, keyboard usb wired behind the tower
[09:35] <xubuntu18i_fred> mouse logitech with unify key
[11:12] <Spass> I'm on 18.04 using Catfish 1.4.4, is it possible to make Catfish remember its window size when closing? right now it always starts a little bit too small for my liking and I need to enlarge it
[11:14] <Spass> if not, I would like to propose that feature for the future releases ( ping bluesabre )
[11:15] <pmjdebru1jn> or maybe just a more sensitive default window size :)
[11:15] <pmjdebru1jn> sensible
[11:18] <Spass> another possibility - enable "advanced hidden top secret option" to ~/.config/catfish/catfish.rc
[11:19] <Spass> like "window-width=1000" and "window-height=500"
[11:21] <Spass> s/to/in/
[18:28] <greuceanu> hello
[18:29] <Spass> hello greuceanu
[18:30] <greuceanu> how do i configure a file with filemanager ?
[18:30] <greuceanu> dont have root acces


[02:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Meet the Penguin Corps! | Community Spotlight @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz3MOTVA28Y (by Ubuntu OnAir)
[12:42] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Intel and Canonical to secure containers software supply chain @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/secure-containers-supply-chain-intel-openvino-canonical
[18:31] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: SQL Server on Ubuntu Pro: bringing it all back home @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/sql-server-on-ubuntu-pro-bringing-it-all-back-home


[02:55] <skellat> Blam.
[02:56] <skellat> Podcast hiatus declared until August 20th.  Still haven't decided if I'm going to run for one of two seats on the Ashtabula County Board of Commissioners.  I have until 4 PM on August 27th to decide.
[02:56] <skellat> Echo....
[02:56] <skellat> ....echo...
[02:56] <skellat> ...cho...
[02:58] <Unit193> Howdy.
[14:33] <andygraybeal> heya!  wooh
[14:34] <paultag> Oh man
[14:34] <paultag> skellat
[14:34] <paultag> hey andygraybeal
[14:34] <andygraybeal> greets paul
[14:34] <paultag> howdy
[14:34] <andygraybeal> you gonna be at the columbus linux thing in september?
[14:35] <paultag> OLF
[14:35] <paultag> yessir, making plans already
[14:35] <andygraybeal> nice
[14:35] <andygraybeal> me oto
[14:35] <andygraybeal> er.. hopefully atleast
[14:35] <paultag> and also planning for a Debian hackathon with gilbert
[14:35] <andygraybeal> september is busy season for us still normlaly before frost.
[14:35] <paultag> I have a shit-ton of hackathons in September
[14:36] <andygraybeal> nice
[15:28] <canthus13> http://www.reddit.com/r/techsupportgore/comments/we68d/i_forgot_to_move_my_laptop_when_i_turned_on_the/   o.O
[15:39] <andygraybeal> hehe, i read that one :)  hilarious
[15:39] <andygraybeal> doesn't that happens to you when your on allrecipes.com ?
[15:57] <canthus13> nope. that's what cell phones are for. :)
[16:00] <andygraybeal> :)
[16:00] <paultag> nc pault.ag 2017 ← it lives again
[16:04] <canthus13> paultag: Aweomse.
[16:05] <paultag> :)
[16:05] <canthus13> Awesome, too.
[16:05] <paultag> what's cool about this is it uses a .gif to do the rendering
[16:05] <paultag> python digests it and putputs ANSI. I hacked this up last winter but never found a way to run it
[16:06] <canthus13> http://miku.acm.uiuc.edu/
[16:06] <paultag> yeah
[16:06] <canthus13> I had that running for a while.
[16:06] <paultag> less cool version
[16:07] <canthus13> Also had ADVENTUR running on a telnet port for a while.
[16:07] <canthus13> might do that one again.
[16:08] <canthus13> Doesn't beat the starwars rendition,t hough.
[16:09] <paultag> mmmm
[16:09] <paultag> that's true
[16:09] <paultag> but this can take random gifs and render them to the terminal
[16:09] <paultag> which is why I care, I was going to build this into a cli web-browser
[16:09] <paultag> at least for low-res gifs
[16:12] <canthus13> that's pretty cool. :)
[16:13] <paultag> thanks :)
[16:31] <canthus13> Now... I've got frotz installed.. I just need to find infocom games. :)
[22:20]  * canthus13 ponders ways to set up a telnet connection that would allow people to connect directly to a frotz session running an instance of a game.
[23:44] <dzho> http://zork.net/ <- canthus13
[23:49] <canthus13> :D


[02:27] <jdstrand> man that took a while. first of 2 jobs done. I am going to let the publisher have a run then do the 2nd job
[02:31] <jdstrand> ok, publisher started and I disabled the cronjob again
[03:30] <jdstrand> ok, publisher run finished, starting command 2 of 2. it will take about 3 hours
[07:01] <jdstrand> publisher back online
[07:01]  * jdstrand heads out
[08:14] <tumbleweed> Laney: probably not around tonight (up to my ears in scaleconf)
[08:16] <pitti> jdstrand: ah, saw your publisher comment too late -- that explains a bit :)
[08:16] <pitti> jdstrand: I just released the corresponding langpacks, they need to go along with the firefox bits
[08:53] <Laney> tumbleweed: I thought that said scalaconf and got excited
[08:53] <Laney> also ack
[09:03] <tumbleweed> hah
[09:30] <highvoltage> that actually deserved an appluase :)
[13:46] <jdstrand> pitti: which langpacks did I miss? I did all the langpacks in -proposed and saw when I copied firefox that it had several as well
[13:47] <pitti> jdstrand: hm, I didn't see any of them, but maybe that was also just a victim of the publisher delay
[13:48] <pitti> jdstrand: at least "6 hours ago" corresponds to the time when I moved them over
[13:48] <jdstrand> pitti: probably-- I did maverick + langpacks, ran the publisher then lucid + langpacks. when I ran the publisher in between I think it took an hour and a half
[13:48] <jdstrand> you came on about 1 and 15 minutes after I reenabled the publisher
[13:49] <pitti> jdstrand: so, maybe we just both copied them over then
[13:49] <pitti> (which doesn't hurt)
[13:49]  * jdstrand nods
[13:50] <jdstrand> it takes a while to copy those :)
[13:50] <pitti> yeah, some 10 minutes
[13:50] <jdstrand> oh-- how do you do it?
[13:50] <pitti> sru-release --pattern lucid language-pack-
[13:51] <jdstrand> hmm, I used copy-package on each individually. that was painful
[13:51] <pitti> urgh, yes
[13:51]  * jdstrand jots down sru-release
[13:51] <pitti> jdstrand: that's in ubuntu-archive-tools; there's also an sru-release script on cocoplum, but it's deprecated
[13:52] <pitti> we just need it for kernels and big SRUs these days, which make sru-release LP-timeout
[13:53] <jdstrand> cool. I learned something :)
[13:55] <cjwatson> I'm going to try http://paste.ubuntu.com/818818/ next time I have occasion to do this kind of thing
[14:03]  * jdstrand notes sru-release is not mentioned on ArchiveAdministration. I've made note of it and will document once I've used it once
[14:03] <jdstrand> (if no onw else does before me)
[14:06] <jdstrand> well, I'm off tody so I better get out of here. have a nice day :)
[14:13] <Riddell> why does backport-helper.py not find bug 922601 ?
[14:13] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 922601 in oneiric-backports "Please backport 0.9.0~rc4-0ubuntu1 from precise to oneiric (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922601
[14:13] <cjwatson> no package name
[14:13] <Riddell> mm
[14:13] <cjwatson>     PACKAGE_RE = re.compile(r'Please backport ([a-z0-9][-a-z0-9+.]+)', re.I)
[14:14] <Riddell> yeah I saw I needed to add a "Please" :)
[14:14] <cjwatson> also ubuntu-archive not subscribed
[14:15] <Laney> I don't see a backporters ack
[14:15] <cjwatson> and that
[14:16] <Riddell> Laney: does the script enforce that? (don't worry I'm going to get scottk to check it over)
[14:16] <Laney> no, it just sounded like you were processing it without one
[14:16] <Laney> well, s/no/I don't know/
[14:17] <cjwatson> I don't think so, though arguably it should
[14:20] <Riddell> it's still not being picked up by backport-helper.py :(
[14:20] <Laney> Wouldn't be that hard to check that ubuntu-archive was subscribed by a backporter, as a first approximation. Otherwise, iterating bug_activity collections isn't the nicest thing.
[15:45] <micahg> Riddell: you still need approval from the backports team
[15:49] <Riddell> micahg: what sort?  something that stops the backport-helper.py script seeing the bug?
[15:49] <micahg> Riddell: BTW, is the current version in oneiric broke?
[15:49] <micahg> Riddell: to backport anything
[15:50] <Riddell> micahg: but I'm trying to understand what stops the script seeing it
[15:51] <Riddell> micahg: it's not broke but upstream wants a way to point people with problems to a newer version
[15:51] <micahg> it shouldn't see it if a backporter hasn't approved it
[15:54] <Riddell> micahg: that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking what is the technical change that a member of ~ubuntu-backporters needs to do to get the script to see it
[15:55] <Riddell> just a comment?
[15:56] <micahg> I think a backporter setting to IN PROGRESS
[15:57] <ScottK> Point me at the bug and I'll approve it.
[15:58] <Riddell> ScottK: bug 922601
[15:58] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 922601 in oneiric-backports "Please backport networkmanagement 0.9.0~rc4-0ubuntu1 from precise to oneiric (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922601
[15:59] <Laney> it searches for bugs which are In Progress
[15:59] <ScottK> Done
[15:59] <Laney> (and that the archive is subscribed to)
[16:00] <Laney> backport-helper.py:202
[16:00] <Laney> Riddell: ^^^
[16:00] <Riddell> Laney: ah hah, thanks
[16:01] <Laney> and it actually /does/ walk the history to find out who to credit the backport too
[16:06] <Riddell> hmm now I'm getting no output from ./mass-sync.py --flush-backports  should I?
[16:07] <cjwatson> yes
[16:07] <cjwatson> you probably forgot to run mass-sync on the output of backport-helper
[16:13] <Riddell> cjwatson: hmm it didn't like that either http://paste.kde.org/194042/
[16:14] <cjwatson> dunno sorry
[16:14] <cjwatson> meeting
[16:15] <cjwatson> oh maybe you need to set your cocoplum username
[16:15] <cjwatson> ideally configure it in ~/.ssh/config
[16:16] <cjwatson> or set UBUNTU_ARCHIVE_HOST in the environment if you don't normally ssh to "cocoplum.canonical.com" - see synclib.py
[16:16] <cjwatson> this annoyance will go away once we convert to backportpackage ...
[16:21] <Riddell> awesome thanks
[23:20] <cjwatson> Could somebody process multipath-tools through NEW for me, please?  I have a dmraid upload pending which will require it
[23:20] <cjwatson> the new kpartx-udeb binary wants to go to main


[00:29] <brousch1> cmaloney: I'm about to punch audacity in the face
[00:29] <brousch1> I'm trying to trim this wav file but it refuses to trim where I want it to
[00:30] <brousch1> It's fine in audacity, then I export, and it has an extra half second of sound
[00:50] <cmaloney> This is pathetic: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/windows-8-more-widely-used-than-os-x-ie-still-on-the-rise/
[00:50] <cmaloney> brousch1: How are you trimming the file?
[00:50] <brousch1> cutting and trimming
[00:51] <jjesse> windows 8 is moving up quickly as MS pushes the death of XP
[00:51] <brousch1> select what i want, edit, remove audio, trim
[00:51] <cmaloney> I'm not sure what trim does
[00:51] <cmaloney> I've never used it
[00:51] <cmaloney> That may be what the problem is
[00:51] <cmaloney> I'd use something like cut to remove the audio
[00:53] <brousch1> same thing
[00:53] <brousch1> I even got the same result with kwave, a different editor
[00:53] <brousch1> wtf
[00:53] <cmaloney> brousch1: Would you jump on a hangout to show me what the heck you're doing?
[07:41] <rick_h> morning
[11:20] <cmaloney> Good morning
[11:20] <cmaloney> Probably closer to lunch for you. :)
[11:21] <rick_h> abyea
[11:21] <rick_h> yea
[11:21] <brousch1> eh?
[11:21] <cmaloney> How's the sprint going?
[11:22] <brousch1> Is rick_h in a foreign land?
[11:23] <cmaloney> Signs point to "yes"
[11:28] <rick_h> yes, london
[12:55] <cmaloney> I have a command to to a sshfs mount to work called "mordocs"
[12:55] <cmaloney> everytime I type it, I think "morlocks"
[13:49] <jrwren> https://twitter.com/brandon_rhodes/status/375241601242918912   I cannot duplicate. its a lie!
[13:53] <brousch1> jrwren: Don't you work at Arbor Networks? http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html#arbor-networks-agency-ann-arbor-mi-and-burlington-ma
[15:01] <brousch1> Python! http://aws.amazon.com/cli/
[16:11] <jrwren> yes
[16:12] <jrwren> brousch1: yeah, the new CLI tools look like thin wrappers around boto.
[16:12] <jrwren> thank goodness the java shit is gone!
[16:14] <jrwren> brousch1: want to apply? or do you just like that it is listed on jobs.python.com?
[16:31] <rick_h> jrwren: they hired the boto guy. He refactored a base layer https://github.com/boto/botocore
[16:32] <jrwren> i noticed the base player.
[16:32] <jrwren> I didn't know he was now AMZN employed. that is cool.
[16:32] <jrwren> i use boto a lot. I like it enough.
[18:27] <brousch1> jrwren: I just thought it cool that it was on the feed
[18:53] <jcastro> rick_h: you have a unicomp right?
[19:15] <cmaloney> Filco, iirc
[19:15] <cmaloney> jcastro: ^^
[19:15] <cmaloney> John sivak has a unicomp
[20:32] <tony-smlr> If you are in the Detroit area tonight Please join me for the SMLR  EPISODE 100 Celeberation on Sep 4th 2013 at Atwater Brewery in Detroit MI
[20:51] <rick_h> jcastro: yes, I've got filco and unicomp and leopold and kenisis and...
[20:52] <jcastro> excelloent
[20:52] <jcastro> I will mention you in the post
[20:53] <rick_h> jcastro: heh
[21:02] <cmaloney> Yea, rick_h is the local keyboard conniseur
[21:02] <cmaloney> He's the Somalier of Space Bars
[21:03] <cmaloney> The Maitre D of the clicky key
[21:05]  * rick_h clickys some more
[22:17] <waf> hey, seeing jcastro's blog post on the front page of hn
[22:18] <jcastro> yay!
[22:59] <cmaloney> Nice!


[09:33] <slyon> schopin: hey! Could you do a brief sanity check on this for me? https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/262 (I realized this while preparing the packaging for the next release)
[09:34] <schopin> Ooh I'm liking the title of this PR already \o/
[09:34] <slyon> heh :) I realized that we do not need part of our abi_compat symbols, as they've never been part of the library


[03:07] <tgnx> hello
[03:07] <tgnx> i'm just installed ubuntu on a pc and after installation it won't boot
[11:26] <allee> Keybuk: Sun Galaxy X4100 sda1 versus sdi1 root dev mistery: After netbooting dapper with preseeding, reboot fails can't mount /dev/sdi1. In grub dialog s/sdi1/sda1/ and boots successful. df shows root it now mounted on /dev/sdi1
[11:27] <Keybuk> come again?
[11:28] <Keybuk> what is root= k
[11:29] <allee> in grub append?  root=/dev/sdi1.  I need to change it to /dev/sda1
[11:31] <Keybuk> ok, but then df says something different?
[11:32] <allee> yes, when I login df says /dev/sdi1 for /
[11:33] <allee> ah, and afair fdisk -l listed /dev/sda not sdi.  checking ...
[11:33] <Keybuk> that makes no sense
[11:33] <Keybuk> sorry, but if /dev/sda1 is mounted as the root device, that's what will show up in df
[11:33] <Keybuk> it doesn't suddenly jump to sdi1 half way through the boot sequence
[11:34] <Keybuk> what are sda-sdh ?
[11:34] <allee> Keybuk: no idea, sorry.  There only one harddisk.  lsmod lists usb-storage as first loaded.
[11:35] <Keybuk> I can't help you
[11:35] <Keybuk> what you're saying makes zero sense
[11:35] <Keybuk> you'll need to get your facts sorted out first
[11:35] <Keybuk> is your hard disk /dev/sda1 or /dev/sdi1, for example ... you're claiming it's both
[11:36] <allee> Keybuk: during install it says it always says sdi.  menu.lst contains sdi. fine so far
[11:37] <allee> Keybuk: boot fails with can mount sdi1 and I'm on 'sh#' prompt.  Reboot and in grub dialog set root=/dev/sda1 and it boots successfully
[11:38] <Keybuk> ok
[11:38] <Keybuk> and then after booting, what does "cat /proc/mounts" say?
[11:38] <crispinf> Keybuk: many thanks for that udev fix - it worked perfectly, so I marked the bug as "Fix released"
[11:39] <allee> Keybuk: one moment, I tried a reboot and now I'm on '#' prompt again.  I'll reboot and change to sda1 again ..
[11:45] <Keybuk> allee: either way, this sounds like an installer bug to me
[11:45] <Keybuk> if sda-sdh are being given to removable devices, that's a bug
[11:45] <Keybuk> file it on hw-detect
[11:47] <allee> proc mounts only shows /dev/sda1, df / lists sdi1
[11:49] <Keybuk> ok
[11:49] <Keybuk> iz installer bug
[11:50] <allee> Keybuk: ok, I'll file bug against hw-detect
[12:51] <allee> done: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hw-detect/+bug/33249
[12:53] <Kamion> er, what? hw-detect doesn't assign device names
[12:53] <Kamion> Keybuk: what do you think should change in hw-detect?
[12:54] <Keybuk> it shouldn't load usb-storage before the scsi/raid/sata controller
[12:55] <Keybuk> otherwise the kernel will allocate sda-sdX to whatever USB keys and devices are plugged in
[12:55] <Keybuk> and then finally sdX+1 to the intended root filesystem
[12:55] <Keybuk> which means they better damned well leave everything connected next time they boot ;)
[12:58] <Keybuk> I assume that's what's grabbing sda-sdh anyway
[01:01] <Keybuk> either way, the installer is arranging matters so that the intended root filesystem is sdi, where udev/
[01:01] <Keybuk> initramfs are making it sda
[01:01] <Keybuk> and I think the installer is at fault, as sdi is a rather far-fetched name for it
[01:07] <allee> Should I but another X4100 with sda preseeded?  Then it stop in partition menu, and I can send you more infos if needed
[01:08] <Kamion> allee: no need, thanks
[01:09] <allee> Kamion: 'k.   Saves me some time ;)
[01:14] <allee> Keybuk: mhmm, after boot mpt* drivers are loaded before usb-storage.  Point I don't understand is why can the system still access / via sdi1
[01:15] <Keybuk> it can't
[01:15] <Keybuk> it's just lying to you
[01:15] <Keybuk> "mount" just outputs a text file that's created after the system has booted
[01:15] <Keybuk> and that just seeds the root filesystem information from /etc/fstab, which is wrong
[01:16] <Keybuk> it has nothing to do with where the root filesystem REALLY IS :)
[01:16] <Keybuk> it's just all there for compatibility with old shit
[02:00] <allee> Keybuk: cool. not the first time old shit drives me crazy. thx for this info!
[02:43] <crispinf> /etc/mtab is something I don't understand, /proc/mounts is much more reliable :-)
[03:01] <Kamion> AFAIK the only reason /etc/mtab hasn't been replaced with a symlink to /proc/mounts is that /proc/mounts doesn't give you all the information that /etc/mtab gives you about loopback mounts
[03:01] <Kamion> at least that was the problem last time it was suggested in Debian
[03:04] <crispinf> sounds to me like minor bug compared to the fact that mtab can sometimes just give you plain wrong info :-)
[03:08] <Kamion> it's not a huge deal, but it was a regression ... sometimes the bugs you know about are better than shiny new ones ;-)
[03:09] <crispinf> true :-)


[07:39] <barco> I need some help with Installing Epoptes on Ltsp Chroot. It seems to be an issue with ubuntu keyserver being down
[07:46] <alkisg> barco: what's the error output? the keyserver seems to work here...
[07:47] <barco> gpg: keyserver timed out
[07:47] <barco> gpg: keyserver receive failed: keyserver error
[07:47] <alkisg> barco: ping keyserver.ubuntu.com
[07:47] <alkisg> Maybe you don't have a correct resolv.conf in your chroot
[07:49] <barco> I think you're right. Let me check that...
[07:51] <barco> Thanx, that was the problem. I don't use internet on the clients so never noticed the issue.
[07:53] <alkisg> Cool, let us know if you like epoptes etc
[07:54] <barco> Will do, I'm trying it out right after I update the NBD Image.
[07:57] <barco> It's snappy! I like the fact that it can broadcast to a client before log-in!
[07:58] <alkisg> Yeah some times we only want to broadcast something for 1 hour without the students even logging in, so we thought to implement it this way :)
[10:33] <barco> And here I've been logging in to workstations to broadcast. So much more work. Epoptes is also a lot more responsive than Italc when broadcasting. Looks like it updates several times per second without bogging down the network.
[10:34] <barco> Used to have 1second interval updates on Italc. That translates to 2-3 second lag with 6clients! Thanx for all your effort and work on this project!!