[10:42] <flocculant> sounds like a sep
[12:15] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r643 Fix xml validation and release 18.04.0 (by Sean Davis)
[14:48] <Unit193> bluesabre: Since you're pushing that, I'm going to presume you want me to sync from exp. :P
[15:36] <bluesabre> Unit193: go for it :)
[15:36] <Unit193> Already did.
[15:37] <bluesabre> Awesome. :D
[15:38] <bluesabre> And thanks for updating the PPAs
[21:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: So, fonts.
[21:57] <knome> foooooonts.


[13:58] <MohamedAlaa98> hello guys :)
[13:58] <MohamedAlaa98> When will be the next meeting?
[14:00] <phillw> qa meeting due nowish :)
[14:00] <MohamedAlaa98> sorry?
[14:01] <MohamedAlaa98> I mean the ubuntu membership meeting>
[14:02] <phillw> MohamedAlaa98: I know they recently changed the structure. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership has the full details.
[14:02] <balloons> aloha everyone!
[14:02] <phillw> hi balloons
[14:03] <balloons> let's have at it
[14:03] <balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
[14:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun  6 14:03:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:03] <balloons> Ok, let's do a quick role call and see who's around
[14:03] <phillw> o/
[14:04] <MohamedAlaa98> me :)
[14:05] <balloons> excellent :-)
[14:05] <balloons> I can only assume everyone else is iso testing :-)
[14:05] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[14:06] <balloons> I don't believe we have any
[14:07] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[14:07] <balloons> So, I wonder if gema is around
[14:08] <balloons> the UK has had a bit of a holiday and long weekend
[14:08] <phillw> we're all supposed to be back today :)
[14:08] <pitti> in general she is
[14:08] <balloons> that's right.. everyone is back today :-)
[14:09] <balloons> We'll move on for the moment to the flavors I think
[14:09] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[14:09] <balloons> phillw, why don't you start us off -- and is your successor around?
[14:10] <phillw> my successor has not agreed to the role - so you're stuck with me :P
[14:10] <balloons> :p
[14:11] <phillw> testing seems okay. a few minor niggles. One thing that is causing concern is that there does not appear to be a browser for ppc builds in 12.10 (they used Ffox in 12.04).
[14:11] <MohamedAlaa98> I'm still here :)
[14:12] <balloons> phillw, what do you mean no browser?
[14:12] <phillw> no Chromium (never was ppc) but no Ffox either this time.
[14:12] <balloons> aka, there's no ppc build for ffox..
[14:12] <phillw> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1008975
[14:12] <balloons> did they drop support on ff's end?
[14:13] <MohamedAlaa98> quit
[14:13] <phillw> idk, I was made aware of it a couple of days ago. The lubuntu-qa team is in discussion with Julien, but I guess it would affect all of the ppc builds?
[14:14] <balloons> seems like it does https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691898
[14:15] <balloons> anyways, it looks like they fixed the issue, so it should be possible to build on ppc again with there code changes
[14:15] <phillw> excellent news, i will communicate it to the testers :)
[14:16] <balloons> well, julien linked to the ubuntu bug, which is still pending
[14:16] <phillw> how do we go about getting it into 12.10?
[14:16] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/987421
[14:17] <phillw> okies, I'll leave it in Juliens' capable hands :)
[14:17] <balloons> :-)
[14:17] <balloons> the good news is it CAN be fixed, how's that?
[14:17] <balloons> anything else to report?
[14:18] <phillw> nope. I'm done :)
[14:18] <balloons> thanks phillw
[14:18] <balloons> and as always, thanks to all the lubuntu QA team -- you guys are doing good work again on alpha one :-)
[14:19] <balloons> alright, do we have someone from xubuntu?
[14:21] <balloons> astraljava, you about?
[14:21] <balloons> how about ubuntu studio?
[14:22] <balloons> Well I can give the update for both that they are not participating in alpha 1..
[14:22] <balloons> anyone around for kubuntu?
[14:22] <balloons> They too are not issuing iso's for alpha 1
[14:23] <Riddell> mm?
[14:23] <Riddell> I'm testing alpha 1 right now
[14:23] <balloons> err.. sorry Riddell
[14:24] <balloons> yes, not the full suite of images.. just the desktop for alpha 1
[14:24] <balloons> correct?
[14:24] <Riddell> right, which will probably become the full suite of images
[14:25] <balloons> great, anything else to report -- how's the testing going?
[14:25] <Riddell> pleasingly well
[14:26] <balloons> anything else to add?
[14:26] <Riddell> not just now
[14:26] <balloons> that's great news.. I hope it's smooth sailing for you :-)
[14:27] <balloons> Alright, finally mythbuntu, which isn't pushing out a DVD for alpha 1
[14:28] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other Updates
[14:28] <balloons> I suppose I shall fill in then for updates for ubuntu
[14:28] <balloons> As everyone knows, it's alpha 1 testing time
[14:29] <balloons> we've had a few respins already, fixing some kernel bugs and other issues
[14:30] <balloons> the following caused respins:
[14:30] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-base/+bug/1006717
[14:30] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1008898
[14:30] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1008905
[14:31] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/isc-dhcp/+bug/1006937
[14:31] <balloons> thanks to everyone testing on alpha 1 and helping find and sort out these issues
[14:32] <balloons> Updates from me:
[14:32] <balloons> working on the first call for testing to be announced tomorrow -- we'll be testing the 12.10 kernel on 12.04 and using the qatracker to do it :-)
[14:33] <balloons> working with popey to understand how unity testing will happen this cycle
[14:34] <balloons> and meeting with the hexr team to understand how we can roll out a community hardware database using HEXR
[14:34] <balloons> Anyone else have a question or update they'd like to share?
[14:34] <phillw> o/
[14:34] <balloons> go ahead
[14:35] <phillw> do you have the link to the area where the devs flag up what is being considered to cause a respin. It was an excellent resource last time :)
[14:37] <balloons> phillw, sure
[14:37] <phillw> afaik, no one dared edit anything on it last cycle from lubuntu-qa :)
[14:37] <balloons> hehe :-)
[14:38] <balloons> yes, also I was just checking, but the build notes for the iso's should contain the same information
[14:39] <balloons> I'm not sure I'm seeing such things, so that's something for me to follow-up with
[14:39] <balloons> alright, anything else?
[14:39] <balloons> if not, we're finishing up early :-)
[14:39] <jibel> o/
[14:40] <balloons> jibel, go ahead
[14:40] <jibel> about quantal alpha 1 testing
[14:40] <jibel> as you said we've had a few respins already
[14:40] <jibel> I'd just like to mention that there is a build in progress of ubuntu desktop
[14:41] <jibel> and new images will be published in 1h or so
[14:41] <balloons> jibel, ohh really? ahh
[14:41] <jibel> so stay tuned on #ubuntu-testing to help us review these images
[14:41] <balloons> I just synced and was surprised nothing new came in overnight
[14:41] <jibel> balloons, really
[14:41] <jibel> we need tests on HW with wireless and Macs
[14:42] <jibel> but review on VM won't hurt :)
[14:42] <balloons> your bugfix is landing for the mac mini?
[14:42] <jibel> yep, new kernel to fix a bug with B43 wireless cards
[14:43] <jibel> and fix in Ubiquity to workaround a bug in python3
[14:43] <jibel> that's all from me
[14:43] <jibel> ..
[14:43] <balloons> thanks jibel !
[14:43] <balloons> ok, everyone thanks for coming out.. happy testing
[14:44] <balloons> #endmeeting
[14:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun  6 14:44:02 2012 UTC.
[14:44] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-14.03.moin.txt
[14:44] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-14.03.html
[15:00] <infinity> o/
[15:00]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun  6 15:01:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:01]  * stgraber waves
[15:01] <ogra_> moop
[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:02]  * xnox turns off countdown theme tune
[15:02] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:02] <slangasek> ogra ev stokachu stgraber slangasek xnox cjwatson bdmurray infinity doko barry jodh
[15:02] <highvoltage> nice
[15:02] <ogra_> geez, i'm first !
[15:03] <ogra_> done:
[15:03] <ogra_> * flash-kernel fixes and merges and more findings for more fixes and merges next
[15:03] <ogra_>  week
[15:03] <ogra_> * image tests ... and more image tests.. and even more ahead
[15:03] <ogra_> * researching image build issues
[15:03] <ogra_> * discovered a bunch of bugs with the recent panda kernels and worked with paolo on them
[15:03] <ogra_> todo:
[15:03] <ogra_> * corpus christi tomorrow in my state (not all of germany has it as a bank holiday, my state does though)
[15:03] <ogra_> * fix live-build to actually produce ac100 images with the new flash-kernel
[15:03] <ogra_> * finally switch to live arm images now that A1 is done
[15:03] <ogra_> * look into how to integrate flash-kernel into debian-cd to make images bootable
[15:03] <ogra_> * upload pending merges
[15:03] <ogra_> ..
[15:03] <ev> pass (still typing)
[15:04] <xnox> stokachu: has been working hard this week as well?!
[15:04] <slangasek> stokachu: hiya :) anything you'd like to share re: this week's activity?  (autofs, autofs, and more autofs)
[15:04] <xnox> slangasek: there was dpatch envolved as well =)
[15:06] <slangasek> stgraber: go ahead
[15:06] <stgraber> - SRU
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Went through the list of pending SRUs for Precise and helped verify these that didn't need any weird setup
[15:06] <stgraber>  - First 12.04.1 team meeting, worked on team wiki page, announced team on mailing-lists
[15:06] <stgraber>  - While testing LXC nesting, found a pretty nasty bug in euca2ools (making /etc/ssl/certs a static file if installed before openssl), fixed and SRUed
[15:06] <stgraber> - Release
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Quick training on cdimage handling and alpha-1 preparing with Kate
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Alpha-1 preparation
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Tracked down a python3-dbus bug making the installer crash when connecting to wifi, worked around for alpha-1, fix is now upstream
[15:06] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Added LXC backend to auto-upgrade-testing
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Implemented early version of the python module, currently wrapping the C commands, will be ported to liblxc soon
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Started testing LXC's SRU, found a bug, fixed in quantal and SRUed the fix
[15:07] <stgraber> - ISO tracker
[15:07] <stgraber>  - New roles for product management and testcase management
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Add a new buginstruction text field to products
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Improve ACL checking
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Some more work on testsuites management, moving columns between tables, updating UI
[15:07] <stgraber> - Other
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Booked flights to Plumbers
[15:07] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:07] <stgraber>  - More alpha-1 fun
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Continue with ISO tracker changes based on the list from QA and work items
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Continue going through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Look at the isc-dhcp SRU for Oneiric (asked for some information in the bug)
[15:07] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:07] <slangasek> ev: ready yet?
[15:08] <ev> yes
[15:08] <ev> - Very short week. Packing Millbank desk for Blue Fin move on Thursday, party
[15:08] <ev>   on Sunday, public holiday Monday and Tuesday.
[15:08] <ev> - Mail to Andy, Martin, and James Westby on a plan for how we can get the
[15:08] <ev>   kernel crash collecting work finished and reporting to errors.ubuntu.com.
[15:08] <ev> - Wrote debugging guide for whoopsie-daisy:
[15:08] <ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/Debugging
[15:08] <ev> - Uploaded a new Wubi for 12.10.
[15:08] <ev> - Worked in some performance improvements to errors.ubuntu.com requested by
[15:08] <ev>   webops. We've been seeing some timeouts getting hit by some of the
[15:08] <ev>   components talking to Cassandra. As we don't have statsd and Graphite up yet
[15:08] <ev>   (RT awaiting action from webops), I can only pick at low hanging fruit. This
[15:08] <ev>   change moves from getting a column count from several wide rows (which reads
[15:08] <ev>   the entire row into memory) for the "average crashes per user" graph to
[15:08] <ev>   using counters.
[15:08] <ev> - Added txstatsd and Graphite code to lp:errors and lp:daisy. Added JMX to
[15:08] <ev>   Graphite via JMXTrans. The latter gives us Cassandra operational stats in
[15:08] <ev>   Graphite. None of this is deployed yet as we need a new Graphite server
[15:08] <ev>   (RT #53325).
[15:08] <ev> - Some clean up of the tastypie branch of lp:errors on advice from James
[15:08] <ev>   Westby. Now implements the list protocol to provide lazy evalution of the
[15:08] <ev>   query, emulating behavior found in evil ORMs.
[15:08] <ev> - More discussion with Martin around uniting the Launchpad and crashdb
[15:08] <ev>   retracers.
[15:08] <ev> (done)
[15:08] <slangasek> good thing it's a short week ;)
[15:08] <ev> heh
[15:10] <ev> - Read on Wandsworth Common
[15:10] <ev> - Played catch with the dog
[15:10] <ev> - Watched pretty much the entire running of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia on Netflix
[15:10] <ev> (done)
[15:10] <ogra_> legally ?
[15:10] <ev> ogra_: it is not yet illegal to play catch on the common
[15:10] <infinity> How do you illegally play catch with a dog?
[15:10] <ogra_> ha
[15:11] <slangasek>  * lining up the python3 sprint
[15:11] <slangasek>  * DebConf planning
[15:11] <slangasek>  * discovered a lingering startup issue with rpcbind/statd/nis; fix in progress (bug #1007293)
[15:11] <slangasek>  * SRU processing, and some verification (update-notifier, rpcbind)
[15:11] <slangasek> (done)
[15:11] <njin> who win, the dog ?
[15:11] <slangasek>  * helping here and there with A1 release this week
[15:11] <ev> njin: always
[15:12] <njin> Hurra for the dog
[15:12] <slangasek> xnox:
[15:12] <xnox> * autofs merge is in progress, some patches accepted into debian
[15:12] <xnox> * applied for core-dev, due on 18th of June
[15:12] <xnox> * working on foundations-q-ubiquity-lvm-luks, attempting to pre-seed now
[15:12] <xnox> * mpt is working on the luks design (no mockups yet)
[15:12] <xnox> * got quad hdd usb3.0 dock, helping kernel team to bisect when we lost
[15:12] <xnox> 3.0 support in kernel cause I have the
[15:12] <xnox> hardware. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/966248
[15:12] <xnox> * short week due to queen's diamond jubilee
[15:12] <xnox> * this week: ubiquity, ubiquity, ubiquity...
[15:12] <xnox> * during other days did boost1.49, offlineimap, usb-creator for
[15:12] <xnox> debian work, visited canonical offices.
[15:13] <slangasek> xnox: do you know an eta from mpt for the mockups?
[15:13] <xnox> slangasek: no.
[15:13] <slangasek> ok
[15:13] <cjwatson> Three-day week due to public holidays.  (Hid up north and pretended not to be British.)
[15:14] <cjwatson> Wrote an API client for removing packages and killed off the old shell-access-only script.
[15:14] <cjwatson> Landed PaS parsing fix for any-arm.
[15:14] <cjwatson> Fixed ubiquity bug 1003443 which was breaking automatic tests.
[15:14] <cjwatson> Added syslinux-themes-ubuntu-quantal package to fix Chinese edition image builds.
[15:14] <cjwatson> Attempted to fix up update-manager following work on relative imports; unfortunately I ran out of time and Michael had to clean up after me.
[15:14] <cjwatson> *Just* managed to get https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/queue-api/+merge/108967 in for review, which should be enough to allow moving queue to an API client.
[15:14] <cjwatson> ..
[15:14] <bdmurray> investigation into the fix for bug 346386 not working in Precise
[15:14] <bdmurray> queried for foundations bugs with the most duplicates that are actively receiving dupes
[15:14] <bdmurray> review of foundations team bugs with the most duplicates
[15:14] <bdmurray> wrote json reader / alerter for spikes in bug volume e.g. recent-package-bugs
[15:15] <bdmurray> modified bug bot not to modify precise bugs saying they need a new update-initramfs
[15:15] <bdmurray> modified search-bugs in ubuntu-bugpatterns to copy tags from duplicate to the master bug
[15:15] <bdmurray> wrote lp-bug-dupe-props in lptools to prevent working on bugs with duplicates with the same reporter
[15:15] <bdmurray> modified lp-bug-dupe-props to check description for apport key / value pairs
[15:15] <bdmurray> reported bug 1007637 regarding preventing reporting multiple package install failures
[15:15] <bdmurray> apport modification to ensure that package_hook tags update-manager dist-upgrade bugs dist-upgrade
[15:15] <bdmurray> investigation into apport-package failures not being sent to the error tracker
[15:15] <bdmurray> launchpad dev environment setup
[15:15] <bdmurray> ␗ done
[15:16] <infinity> * Last week:
[15:16] <infinity>   - Did some SRU stuff and other random AA faff while in HK
[15:16] <infinity>   - Worked on non-public *mumble*mumble* stuff with jk
[15:16] <infinity>   - Reviewed and sponsored some simple uploads for xnox
[15:16] <infinity> * Linaro Connect last week:
[15:16] <infinity>   - Good discussions around v8 progress in ARM and with upstreams
[15:16] <infinity>   - ARM will be backporting their GCC patches to 4.7 for us
[15:16] <infinity>   - Binutils should be out "soon", but still ARM-internal for now
[15:16] <infinity>   - Need to chase up Linaro to get qemu-user-aarch64 working
[15:16] <infinity>   - Lots of other good discussions around big.LITTLE, v7 server
[15:16] <infinity>     concerns, single zImage (almost there!), and other fun bits
[15:16] <infinity> * PlusOneMaint, starting this week
[15:16] <infinity>   - Cleaned up quantal_probs on Monday, leading to my first +1 beer
[15:16] <infinity>   - Training up Andy for PlusOneMinion tasks, currently teaching him
[15:16] <infinity>     the joys and pain of hunting build failures
[15:16] <infinity>   - Setting up my new laptop, as the old one's display unceremoniously
[15:16] <infinity>     died the day after I got home from Hong Kong
[15:16] <infinity> (done)
[15:17] <barry> py3 porting: lazr.authorization, wsgi_intercept, oauth, httplib2 (issue 210), lazr.restfulclient.  this did not go well (details available on request), so i explored alternatives w/pitti who made me very happy.  apport's dependency on launchpadlib is server side only, so he's going to juggle the packages/deps to remove the ubuntu-desktop task dep.  \o/
[15:17] <barry> python issue 14673 and pep 421 implementation (review, sponsor).
[15:17] <barry> provided some consulting for bug 1008898 (upstream dbus-python py3 bug).
[15:17] <barry> worked a bit on my dd application + debian uploads
[15:17] <barry> todo: re-chase some dependencies and update the spreadsheet.  prep for next week's sprint
[15:17] <barry> done.
[15:18] <njin> translating debugging central for italian reporters, hardware testing A1 - in progress
[15:18] <njin> done
[15:19] <ogra_> no jodh today ?
[15:19] <infinity> Not in the channel, at any rate.
[15:19] <ogra_> yep
[15:20] <slangasek> right
[15:20] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:21] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything new? :)
[15:21] <bdmurray> I mentioned bug 346386 being unfixed in precise
[15:21] <slangasek> yep
[15:21] <ogra_> from natty ?
[15:21] <ogra_> wow
[15:22] <slangasek> did you find the reason for its unfixedness?
[15:22] <bdmurray> I found the relevant bit I think
[15:22] <bdmurray> in acquire-item.cc there is now a if (Verify == true) check
[15:22] <bdmurray> which didn't exist in oneiric
[15:23] <slangasek> should the bug be reopened?
[15:23] <bdmurray> yes probably
[15:24] <slangasek> ok
[15:24] <slangasek> next steps?  will you follow up with the apt maintainers (David/mvo)?
[15:24] <bdmurray> yes, I've talked to mvo about it briefly
[15:25] <slangasek> ok cool
[15:25] <slangasek> anything else on the "actively receiving dupes" list that we should be aware of?
[15:26] <bdmurray> as I was looking at bugs w/ the most duplicates I ran across bug 529714
[15:26] <slangasek> hmm, are there new dupes coming in?
[15:26] <bdmurray> which times out
[15:27] <bdmurray> no, but it clutters the most duplicates list
[15:27] <slangasek> right
[15:27] <bdmurray> and I thought breaking out the 'suggesting use of RTLD_DEEPBIND when
[15:27] <bdmurray> opening nss modules from eglibc' task might be a good idea
[15:27] <slangasek> sounds good to me
[15:27] <bdmurray> okay
[15:28] <bdmurray> then infinity and I were looking at bug 1001904 yesterday evening
[15:28] <bdmurray> the users had added hardy to their sources
[15:28] <slangasek> and people are doing this because there's a java package still in the hardy archive?
[15:29] <slangasek> we removed it from partner for all releases... I guess we overlooked hardy because it was in the main archive, not in partner?
[15:30] <slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ do we want to remove sun-java from the hardy release pocket?
[15:32] <cjwatson> We've never regenerated a release pocket Packages so far
[15:32] <cjwatson> In the past I've said we'd only do it given a CnD
[15:32]  * slangasek nods
[15:32] <slangasek> any other action to take here, then?  I'm not sure it makes sense to worry about the missing replaces per se
[15:32] <cjwatson> So, well, it's possible, but it would have to be a tremendously compelling reason
[15:32] <xnox> do we have permission to continue to distribute sun-java though? I thought there was termination.
[15:32] <cjwatson> xnox: Only for later versions
[15:33] <xnox> ok
[15:33] <infinity> We could fix the replaces, but really, pulling in Essential packages from a 4 year old release is sort of a "you get to keep both pieces" scenario.
[15:33] <slangasek> agreed
[15:33] <infinity> If we fix the replaces, would it completely disappear the old package?
[15:33] <infinity> Cause that's vaguely elegant, at least.
[15:33] <infinity> Or... Maybe that would be hilariously bad.
[15:34] <bdmurray> well is there something better we can do to detect people in this scenario?
[15:34] <infinity> It's pretty clearly unsupported-but-allowed use of the tools.  I dunno how much hand-holding we can do.
[15:36] <slangasek> infinity: right - so what about detecting that this is what a user has done, so we can disregard the bug reports (or block them beforehand)?
[15:36] <slangasek> I'm not interested in us spending effort making this work for users
[15:36] <infinity> Disregarding is a bit harsh without feedback telling them why.
[15:37] <slangasek> there are many bug reports that go disregarded
[15:37] <infinity> And the effort spent on making fancy hooks for that sounds like more than just doing the replaces and papering over it.
[15:38] <slangasek> so we think this is a one-off circumstance, and we won't see other bug reports?
[15:38] <infinity> There are two dupes.
[15:39] <infinity> Not sure how many others haven't been found.
[15:39] <bdmurray> I'll try and search for more 3 isn't really a large quantity
[15:39] <slangasek> by "other" I mean "other kinds of bugs caused by trying to travel back in time 4 years"
[15:39] <infinity> Oh.
[15:39] <slangasek> if it's going to be a general class of issue, better to suppress bug reporting
[15:39] <infinity> Nothing that I've seen.  But bdmurray's the one who knows all. :P
[15:40] <cjwatson> I can imagine some, but auto-installation of Essential seems like the hardest to avoid.
[15:40] <slangasek> if we really think this is the only bug of its kind, then that's easily done
[15:41]  * slangasek assigns the bug to infinity
[15:42] <infinity> Just what I always wanted.
[15:42] <slangasek> bdmurray: others?
[15:43]  * ogra_ has an errors.u.c question ... does that fit in this topic ?
[15:43] <bdmurray> slangasek: nope
[15:43] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok, thanks
[15:43] <slangasek> ogra_: let's say yes
[15:43] <ogra_> k
[15:43] <ogra_> so if distros like mint supress updates and security fixes ... bugs will re-occur over and over on the list ...
[15:44] <ogra_> can erros be taught to hide bugs once a newer version was uploaded ?
[15:44] <ogra_> *errors
[15:44] <ogra_> thats an ev question i guess ...
[15:45] <ogra_> that came up recently in a discussion i had and i promised to ask here :(
[15:45] <ogra_> err
[15:45] <ogra_> :)
[15:45] <slangasek> well, errors is meant to know if a crash occurs with the current package or only with the older ones... at one point the headline graph showed "# of crashes" vs. "# of crashes we'd have if people were up to date"?
[15:45] <slangasek> and the current display shows the first and last known package versions for a crash
[15:46] <slangasek> I think hiding the bugs entirely might be too much at this point, though, since there might be other reasons people aren't getting the update that are in our control?
[15:46] <cjwatson> We also want to know about unexpected regressions
[15:46] <ogra_> which wouldn happen with a newer version
[15:46] <ogra_> *would
[15:47] <cjwatson> And about whether lots of our users are seeing bugs because for some reason they aren't up to date; I think to some extent this is a different-audiences question
[15:47]  * slangasek nods
[15:47] <ogra_> k
[15:47] <cjwatson> Many developers would only care about newest-version, but (say) release management might care about everything; I think I'd like to see it be controllable ...
[15:47] <slangasek> ev: ^^ so what's the right answer for ogra_'s concern?  do we track these by sending you mail? :)
[15:48] <bdmurray> I seem to recall a filter by release / distro feature coming to errors which may help
[15:48] <ogra_> haha, sorry, i only channeled the question, i didnt mean to do anything evil to ev
[15:48] <slangasek> well, I think it's a legitimate request for errors.u.c functionality
[15:49] <infinity> I think ev died.
[15:49] <ogra_> indeed, but i dont want him to drown in mail caused by mint users :)
[15:49] <slangasek> oh, I wasn't suggesting having mint users email ev, I was suggesting *you* mail him ;P
[15:49] <ogra_> oh, ok
[15:49] <slangasek> anyway, ev seems idle, so best to take this offline from here
[15:49] <ogra_> yeah, i can do that
[15:50] <ogra_> right
[15:50] <bdmurray> you can also report bugs a launchpad.net/errors
[15:50] <slangasek> heh, namespace
[15:50] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Python3 vsprint
[15:50] <slangasek> hopefully everyone got the mail about the porting sprint next week
[15:50] <slangasek> any questions about the plan there?
[15:51] <slangasek> everyone know whether they're in an American or European timezone?
[15:51] <infinity> Do I have to abandon my +1 minions to come be sprinty?
[15:51] <infinity> (And I have no idea what timezone I'm in...)
[15:51] <infinity> (ever)
[15:51] <ogra_> cmon .... we know where to look that up !
[15:51] <ogra_> just do a A1 test install, ubiquity will tell you !
[15:51] <slangasek> infinity: yes - you can tell them you're "on call" available for those days if things come up?
[15:52] <infinity> slangasek: Check.  Can do.
[15:52] <infinity> ogra_: I do all my test installs on stgraber's server, that doesn't help.
[15:52] <slangasek> hah
[15:52] <ogra_> heh
[15:52] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:52] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:53] <ev> sorry, got pulled into a side conversation
[15:53] <ev> I have AOB
[15:53] <infinity> Not just OB?
[15:53] <ev> and then I'm happy to loop back and talk with ogra_
[15:53] <ev> infinity: :)
[15:53] <ogra_> ev not urgent, we can do it another time
[15:53] <ev> so pitti and I were talking about having references to the error tracker in uploads
[15:53] <slangasek> infinity: he has Astounding Oratorial Bacon
[15:53] <ev> much like we do with LP bugs
[15:54] <infinity> That seems messy.
[15:54] <cjwatson> I'm going to have to go to catch a bus, I'm afraid - need to leave sharp today
[15:54] <infinity> Given that error reports should align with bugs anyway, no?
[15:54]  * slangasek waves to cjwatson
[15:54] <ev> what do people think of a full SHA-1 hash of a crash signature (the things you see in the function column on errors.ubuntu.com) for this, or the first half of the SHA-1 hash
[15:54] <bdmurray> I thought bugs were going to contain information about errors?
[15:54] <slangasek> ev: wouldn't we want any error we care about fixing to have a corresponding bug report?
[15:54] <ogra_> ++
[15:55]  * infinity notes we all seem to be on the same page here. :P
[15:55] <infinity> errors -> bug -> fix bug.
[15:55] <infinity> Underpants, etc.
[15:55] <slangasek> if nothing else, an error tracker ref doesn't give us anything to hang the developer's thoughts on
[15:55] <xnox> statistically ev, you can trim it down to first 7 characters. But, I'd rather see lp: bug references only.
[15:55] <ev> something needs to refer back to the error tracker
[15:55] <infinity> ev: The bug can.
[15:55] <xnox> ev: add errors as a bug tracker on launchpad.
[15:55] <ogra_> and the bug cant ?
[15:55] <cjwatson> We need a tool to promote error-tracker entries to bugs, I think
[15:56] <xnox> ev: link to 'distributions errors.ubuntu.com' as a bug watch
[15:56] <cjwatson> To make it easy and make it more likely that it's done in a vaguely standard way
[15:56] <infinity> That would actually kinda work.
[15:56] <infinity> (The external tracker link)
[15:56] <infinity> But just a simple tag works too.
[15:56] <ev> tag is probably easlier
[15:56] <ev> easier even
[15:56] <xnox> infinity: sha1 tag?
[15:56] <xnox> or url tag?
[15:57] <infinity> Don't care.  Just "a bug tag".
[15:57] <infinity> errors:sha1 or something would work.
[15:57] <ev> I just need to give that one some though, as I really don't want to involve a cron job on this
[15:57] <slangasek> you want a separate bug tag for each error entry?
[15:57] <slangasek> my understanding is that launchpad does not like scaling tags
[15:57]  * cjwatson suggests checking with the LP team in case a bazillion different tags would cause some kind of problem
[15:57] <ev> oh no, it wouldn't be lots of tags
[15:57] <infinity> Oh, right, tags are actually hashed as keys.
[15:57] <infinity> Nevermind.
[15:57] <ev> it would be the needs-dupcheck tag
[15:57] <ev> or whatever it is
[15:58] <cjwatson> Right, gone
[15:58] <ev> which would then cause the LP retracer to pick it up
[15:58] <ev> but that adds the latency of waiting for the LP retracer
[15:58] <ev> hmm
[15:59] <ev> we could just have the errors.ubuntu.com backend create the bug when you click on a "create bug" link and immediately write it in to the bug field in the BucketMetadata column family
[16:00] <ev> the "create bug" link only being present when one doesn't exist in the bug column
[16:00] <slangasek> any other acl on that?
[16:00] <ev> this would mean any linked bugs would be created by a bot
[16:00] <ev> well, the standard canonical+bugsquad or whatever it is
[16:00]  * slangasek nods
[16:01] <slangasek> sounds reasonable enough to me
[16:01] <ev> okay, I'll confirm with martin and hopefully go with that
[16:01] <ev> thanks
[16:02] <slangasek> cool
[16:02] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:03] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun  6 16:03:23 2012 UTC.
[16:03] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-15.01.moin.txt
[16:03] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-15.01.html
[16:03] <slangasek> thanks all
[16:03] <xnox> thanks
[16:03] <barry> thanks
[16:03] <ogra_> thanks
[16:03] <ev> thanks
[16:04] <infinity> \o
[16:04] <stgraber> thanks
[20:03] <jmarsden|work> #startmeeting Lubuntu Weekly Meeting
[20:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun  6 20:03:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:03] <jmarsden|work> o/
[20:03] <phillw> o/
[20:03] <will_> \o
[20:04] <jmarsden|work> Only 3 people?  Hmmm. OK.
[20:05] <jmarsden|work> OK, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda as usual
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> #topic actions items from last week
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> I don't think a meeting was held last week... if it was, I have not seen minutes...
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> So, we'll assume there was no meeting last week.
[20:07] <will_> I don't think there was one
[20:07] <jmarsden|work> #topic lubuntu-qa co-ordinator needed
[20:07] <jmarsden|work> phillw, can you bring us up to date on this one?
[20:08] <phillw> well, as wxl is here, he can let us know if he wants that role. As I stated, until a replacement is found I will continue in that task.
[20:08] <wxl> i don't *WANT* it, but i will do it if no one takes it on
[20:08] <wxl> honestly, i'd love to do it. i just find it hard to commit the time. my available time shrinks every day, i swear.
[20:09] <phillw> that is a curse of QA, especially as release date gets closer.
[20:09] <jmarsden|work> OK... then let's leave it with Phillw for now; phillw can you post something outlining what the role requires to the lubuntu mailing list, and we'll see if anyone else feels inspired to do it?
[20:09] <wxl> can i just vote to keep you, phillw? ;)
[20:09] <phillw> jmarsden|work: I've written up a critique
[20:09] <jmarsden|work> Great, thanks.
[20:10] <phillw> but, the job is more than just 'the job'... that is hard to put into writing,.
[20:10] <phillw> I'll continue for 12.10 unless something unforseen happens, such as me getting a job in Singapore etc :)
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> Understood... but we need something to try to explain it to potential volunteers, at least.  I wonder what the other flavours do wrt filling this role -- do they have descriptions of it we can use??
[20:11] <phillw> but, I will put it to th eML. Having someone join now would be excellent
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> OK, sounds settled for now then. Thanks!
[20:11] <phillw> ermmm... what other flavours?
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> QA for Kubuntum QA for Xubuntu, etc.
[20:12] <phillw> the last QA guy I knew of (Xubuntu) resigned last cycle. They're struggling
[20:12] <jmarsden|work> Ah!
[20:12] <phillw> kubuntu is held by one of their devs.
[20:12] <wxl> i DON'T want that to happen to us.
[20:12] <phillw> he was, and now is sponsored
[20:12] <wxl> so when you can't take it any more, i'll struggle with it in your absence, phillw.
[20:12] <Unit193> Xubuntu has astraljava, IIRC.
[20:13] <phillw> wxl: hence my remaining here. it is too important.
[20:13] <phillw> Unit193: who are not doing A1's......
[20:13] <wxl> yikes
[20:13] <phillw> lost Mac & ppc last cycle.....
[20:13] <wxl> :(
[20:13] <will_> Is there a full QA team, and just looking for a coordinator?
[20:14] <wxl> there are always qa members
[20:14] <phillw> There is a full QA team, just someone to attend the meetings and liase across several teams.
[20:14] <phillw> I'll write it up better & post it.
[20:15] <wxl> i thought you did this already?
[20:15] <phillw> that was a scribbled email to someone who already knows QA....
[20:15] <wxl> ok
[20:16] <jmarsden|work> Alright...
[20:16] <jmarsden|work> #topic Alpha 1 Status
[20:16] <jmarsden|work> Quick update from me... I spoke with Julien
[20:16] <phillw> shall I do the honours?
[20:16] <jmarsden|work> OK... sure :)
[20:16]  * skaet perks up and pays attention now.... ;)
[20:16]  * stgraber looks
[20:16] <phillw> The respins have been done again. a few 'major' bugs squished
[20:17] <phillw> the call has gone out, as the A1 goes 'live' tomorrow. There do not seem to be any show-stopping bugs for an A1 release.
[20:18] <jmarsden|work> Right.  Basically Lubuntu is on track and has an Alpha1, which we can now encourage lots of testers to test.
[20:18] <phillw> one minor (ish :P) bug for ppc is there is no borwser
[20:18] <phillw> *browser*
[20:18] <jmarsden|work> But that's not ours to fix, really... and presumable all flavours have that same issue.
[20:18] <wxl> yikes
[20:18] <phillw> jmarsden|work: indeed, and it is fixable.
[20:18] <phillw> hopefully before beta 1 :D
[20:19] <jmarsden|work> chromium and firefox both do not currently build for PPC, is basically the problem... so it is fortheir teams to fix.
[20:19] <jmarsden|work> OK...
[20:19] <wxl> i need to make a proper install out of it. i kind of cheated my way to quantal. there seems to be a known bug with update-manager that seems to have been squished because i don't see the symptoms anymore.
[20:19] <jmarsden|work> Basically, let's call get testing :)
[20:19] <jmarsden|work> #topic Any Other Business
[20:19] <jmarsden|work> *let's all get testing
[20:20] <jmarsden|work> ANyone have anything else we need to address today?
[20:20] <phillw> skaet: is the current respin "THE" A1, or is there a chance of another respin?
[20:21] <skaet> phillw,  we're likely to go with it,  but results still coming in...
[20:21] <skaet> Have not spotted gilir on line,  could one of the members of the lubuntu community go in and update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview with the main changes that have occured,  and any significant bugs (I've added the browser one already).
[20:21] <phillw> as in, when do you expect to say "this is it!"
[20:21] <jmarsden|work> #action phillw to write up lubuntu-qa coordinator job description and ask for volunteers on lubuntu-users list
[20:21] <meetingology> ACTION: phillw to write up lubuntu-qa coordinator job description and ask for volunteers on lubuntu-users list
[20:21] <phillw> jmarsden|work: can you do that, as a dev?
[20:21] <jmarsden|work> Yes.
[20:22] <skaet> phillw,  tomorrow morning after I get the results from QA.  :)
[20:22] <jmarsden|work> #action jmarsden to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview with the main changes that have occured,  and any significant bugs
[20:22] <meetingology> ACTION: jmarsden to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview with the main changes that have occured,  and any significant bugs
[20:22] <skaet> Thanks jmarsden :)
[20:22] <wxl> i'd also say this is a great time to encourage new testers. the update to apport is niiiice.
[20:22] <jmarsden|work> You're welcome.
[20:22] <jmarsden|work> OK... I think we're done?
[20:22] <phillw> jmarsden|work: as Julien is real busy, is there a chance you could re-start
[20:23] <phillw> the weekly digest on the testing page, as we had for 12.04?
[20:23] <phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseStatus/Precise
[20:23] <jmarsden|work> Maybe... I often don't know week by week what Julien has done... so it would be real work for me to do that.  I'll think about it.
[20:24] <phillw> there is nothing for Q :(
[20:24] <phillw> okies, I'll ask Julien if he can squeeze it back into his workload
[20:24] <jmarsden|work> That would be better, I think, if he is willing
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> OK... any other business?
[20:25] <phillw> He may simply have forgotten about it :)
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> #endmeeting
[20:25] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun  6 20:25:33 2012 UTC.
[20:25] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-20.03.moin.txt
[20:25] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-06-20.03.html
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> OK, thanks everyone :)
[20:25] <phillw> thanks for chairing jmarsden|work
[20:26] <jmarsden|work> No problem... now I can go to a real world meeting here at work!
[20:26] <wxl> thank you everyone


[17:36] <evils> hi, not a 20.10 question, but i suppose it applies to any pre-release; if i update a pre-release version after the release date, is the system in the same state as a fresh install of the release iso + update?
[18:43] <housecat> that's the idea, yeah
[18:43] <housecat> ubottu: final
[20:09] <evils> housecat: thanks


[08:53] <reaktae> anybody here to help me with my hp zv5000 graphics PLEASE?~!
[09:09] <reaktae> bump


[07:17] <abone27> Hi! Could someone nominate #1377813 to SRU for Precise and Trusty? Russia timezones will changes on October 26th. Packages need to be updated before this date.