[00:11] <Ubulette> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll2kajMH2u0
[00:12] <asac> lol
[00:21] <Ubulette> asac, sending the patches upstream is independent
[00:21] <Ubulette> not to mention they are yours ;)
[00:22] <asac_> really :)
[00:22] <asac_> yes its independent ... didn't know where to note that
[00:23] <Ubulette> prism is done too. i really like it now.
[00:27] <asac_> where can i get it? does it work with beta?
[00:28] <Ubulette> yes
[00:28] <Ubulette> any xul 1.9
[00:33] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tarballs/prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030.orig.tar.gz
[00:33] <Ubulette> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism
[00:33] <Ubulette> asac_ ^^
 http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tarballs/prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030.orig.tar.gz
 https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism
[00:37] <Ubulette> asac, ^^
[00:41] <asac> no manpage?
[00:42] <Ubulette> yes, there is, i made one
[00:43] <Ubulette> but, well, it's a web/desktop thing, why would anyone want a man page ?
[00:45] <asac> Ubulette: why do you tar/untar the apps?
[00:45] <asac> what benefit over copy do you have?
[00:46] <Ubulette> do i ? i just unzip the logo
[00:46] <asac> ( cd install/profiles; tar cf - . ) | ( cd debian/tmp$(DEB_MOZ_DATA)/apps ; tar xvf - )
[00:46] <Ubulette> that's a copy
[00:46] <asac> yes ... but why not us cp ?
[00:46] <asac> use
[00:47] <Ubulette> i'm old school, cp -ar is not portable for me ;)
[00:47] <Ubulette> does it matter ?
[00:47] <asac> no
[00:47] <asac> just wondered why you stick to it
[00:48] <Ubulette> i've worked with sunos and solaris where /bin/sh is really dumb
[00:48] <Ubulette> that was a long time ago but habits stay
[00:49] <asac> prism depends on dom-inspector?
[00:49] <Ubulette> (you don't teach new tricks to an old dog)
[00:49] <Ubulette> yes
[00:49] <asac> why?
[00:49] <Ubulette> because it's still young ? it's shipped upstream on win and mac too
[00:50] <asac> yes, but what happens if you make a recommends out of it? does it break?
[00:50] <asac> or suggest
[00:50] <Ubulette> in previous versions, it broke
[00:51] <Ubulette> i haven't tried as i don't think it matters much
[00:52] <asac> its damned that every application creates a top level applicatio nentry ... but maybe i just need to get used to :)
[00:52] <asac> but clicking on prism should definitly prsent the user with buttons to start applications :)
[00:52] <asac> (or url)
[00:54] <Ubulette> ? eh
[00:54] <Ubulette> when you start prism, you get a ui to create a desktop file just by entering a name and an url
[00:55] <asac> yes
[00:55] <Ubulette> you get the default icon but you can change it afterwards
[00:55] <asac> this should also have a list of deployed webapps imo
[00:55] <asac> e.g. a starter panel
[00:55] <Ubulette> why ? it's supposed to be integrated in the desktop
[00:55] <Ubulette> so you can put your entries in the menu
[00:56] <Ubulette> or in the panel
[00:56] <Ubulette> or on the desktop
[00:56] <Ubulette> or a mix
[00:56] <asac> hmm ... then prism main program should go and a mime-type should be registered that invokes prism
[00:56] <Ubulette> it's supposed to
[00:56] <asac> can you install webapps by running prism + url on cmd line?
[00:57] <Ubulette> prism foo.webapp
[00:57] <Ubulette> it's my script
[00:58] <Ubulette> or run prism-whatever directly
[00:58] <asac> hmm
[00:58] <asac> i though opening a webapp by url would be remembered somehow
[00:58] <asac> but probably to early for that
[00:58] <Ubulette> it does
[00:59] <Ubulette> you have something created in ~/.prism/*default/webapps/
[01:00] <asac> clicking on .webapp doesn't work :(
[01:00] <asac> in nautilus
[01:01] <Ubulette> hmm, it did before
[01:01] <asac> need to restart anything?
[01:01] <Ubulette> nautilus
[01:01] <Ubulette> killall
[01:01] <asac> in firefox neither
[01:01] <Ubulette> same, kill it, and you need a web site sending the correct mime type
[01:02] <asac> noper
[01:02] <asac> didn't heop
[01:03] <asac> it should use the one used by gnome  i guess
[01:03] <asac> but gnome doesn't work as well
[01:03] <asac> restarted vfs as well
[01:03] <asac> lets restart session
[01:05] <Ubulette> if i visit /usr/share/prism/apps in nautilus and click on anything in there, it popups the expected webapp
[01:07] <asac> interseting
[01:07] <Ubulette> same with file:///usr/share/prism/apps/ in ff3
[01:07] <asac> in that folder the files have different icons
[01:08] <Ubulette> yes, maybe something is missing but at least, it works
[01:08] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/screenshots/Screenshot-apps.png
[01:08] <asac> doesn't work for me in any case
[01:09] <asac> i have prism_*deb and prism-*deb installed :)
[01:09] <Ubulette> what do you have if you double click one of those ?
[01:10] <asac> for both types i get "xyz cannot be opened
[01:10] <asac> "
[01:10] <asac> no application is known for this kind of file
[01:10] <Ubulette> hmm, it works here
[01:12] <asac> in /usr/lib/mime/packages/prism it looks wierd
[01:12] <asac> application/vnd.mozilla.webapp ext: webapp
[01:12] <asac> the other files look definitly different :)
[01:15] <Ubulette> mozilla bug 403593
[01:15] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 403593 in Prism "prism on ubuntu should be in menu, have icons, file associations, etc." [Enhancement,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=403593
[01:16] <asac> well running prism from command line with .webapp doesn't work either :(
[01:16] <asac> it just opens the url dialog
[01:17] <Ubulette> hm, maybe my fault. I changed a couple of things in the last commit
[01:17] <asac> oh
[01:17] <asac> i have now:
[01:18] <Ubulette> i don't use prism like that, that's why
[01:18] <asac> /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/gnome-app-install --mime-type=application/vnd.mozilla.webapp file:///usr/share/prism/apps/google-groups.webapp /usr/share/prism/apps/google-groups.webapp
[01:18] <asac> and 2 more of those
[01:18] <asac> whats going on?
[01:19] <Ubulette> ?
[01:19] <asac> k wanna fix it?
[01:20] <asac> i mean the "open with url/file" thing?
[01:23] <Ubulette> yep
[01:26] <Ubulette> damn, i have greader registered as the default app for webapps
[01:35] <Ubulette> asac, i've fixed the script when it's called either like that:
[01:35] <Ubulette> prism file:///usr/share/prism/apps/google-mail.webapp
[01:35] <Ubulette> or like that:
[01:35] <Ubulette> prism /usr/share/prism/apps/google-mail.webapp
[01:36] <Ubulette> it works in nautilus when I right click and select run with prism
[01:36] <Ubulette> but by default, the action is run with google reader for me
[01:37] <asac> pull now?
[01:37] <Ubulette> not yet, i document
[01:38] <asac> welll i think file:/usr/... is also legal
[01:39] <asac> and file:some/relativ/path as well :)
[01:39] <Ubulette> i don't think it is
[01:39] <Ubulette> nautilus never does that
[01:40] <asac> but firefox for instance
[01:40] <asac> really i think those are valid :)
[01:40] <asac> though not that important now .)
[01:40] <asac> why not just pass the argument to prism?
[01:41] <asac> e.g. -webapp file:relative/thing/webapp.webapp
[01:42] <Ubulette> i does not support urls (iirc)
[01:42] <Ubulette> it
[01:42] <Ubulette> pushed
[01:43] <Ubulette> I just don't know what's wrong with the mimetype
[01:44] <asac> but http works?
[01:44] <asac> how?
[01:45] <asac> ah its downloaded first i guess
[01:45] <asac> ok
[01:52] <asac> yeah ... still broken
[01:52] <asac> the mime type
[01:53] <Ubulette> right click in nautilus doesn't work ?
[01:54] <Ubulette> add "echo $0 $@ >> /tmp/prism.log" at the beginning of /usr/bin/prism
[01:54] <Ubulette> click and see what you get
[01:55] <asac> Ubulette: its not invoked
[01:56] <asac> gnome doesn't know anything about prism and .webapp
[01:56] <asac> same for firefox
[01:58] <Ubulette> why does it for me ?
[02:01] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/nautilus.png
[02:02] <Ubulette> obviously, the default is wrong but still, prism is there (below)
[02:02] <Ubulette> if you can pinpoint the bug, you're welcome
[02:11] <asac> tomorrow ...maybe restarting gnome completely helps.
[02:11] <asac> but will go to bed now
[02:11] <Ubulette> me too
[02:11] <Ubulette> 'night
[02:12] <asac> bye
[14:57] <gnomefreak> asac: did you get chance to look and push iceape and sunbird? im seeing bug reports in sunbird i would like to say test with 0.7 atm
[15:32] <gnomefreak> asac: the version of firefox-webdeveloper built with firefox is 1.0.2+0-2ubuntu1 and bug 163652 wants to upgrade it I dont think it can be upgraded in Gutsy since it was minor bug fixes no security fixes please comment on bug on what you will do with it.
[15:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163652 in webdeveloper "Upgrade from 1.0.2 to 1.1.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163652
[17:02] <Ubulette_> hi
[17:03] <Ubulette> gnomefreak, does it support ff3 now ?
[18:23] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: i believ eit does
[18:24] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: no not yet
[18:24] <gnomefreak> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60 just through 2.0.0.*
[18:24] <Ubulette> ok
[18:24] <gnomefreak> why the hell wont weechat run
[18:26] <gnomefreak> brb
[18:32] <thunderstruck> what channel is this?
[18:36] <Ubulette> mt
[18:46] <gnomefreak> yeah i figured that out was playing with weechat and didnt know how  to change channels
[19:00] <Ubulette> asac, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/nautilus-prism.png
[20:49] <Ubulette> asac, gnomefreak, could you try prism ? i think i've fixed the icons / mime-types for both firefox and nautilus. At least it works for me.
[20:59] <Ubulette> bluekuja, ping sm1 ?
[21:01] <Ubulette> Admiral_Chicago, what's wrong with the miro image you blogged about ?
[21:47] <gnomefreak> whats the diference between prism and prism-launchpad?
[21:51] <Ubulette> prism-launchpad was an attempt to make a webapp for LP. forget it
[21:51] <Ubulette> prims is the main package
[21:51] <Ubulette> gnomefreak, ^^
[21:51] <gnomefreak> ok
[21:51] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tarballs/prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030.orig.tar.gz
[21:52] <Ubulette> i've also built it in my ppa
[22:02] <Ubulette> gnomefreak, once you have prism and a couple of webapps installed, please visit /usr/share/prism/apps with nautilus, right click on a .webapp file and tell me which apps are proposed (or screenshot the menu).
[22:03] <gnomefreak> k
[22:05] <gnomefreak> you just want list of whats in /usr/share/prism/apps
[22:05] <gnomefreak> everything i installed is in there
[22:05] <gnomefreak> they all have .webapp name
[22:06] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: ^^
[22:08] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/nautilus-prism.png
[22:08] <Ubulette> ?
[22:08] <Ubulette> do you see something like that ?
[22:08] <gnomefreak> not the pretty icons
[22:08] <Ubulette> hmm
[22:08] <gnomefreak> but yes i see them just paper icons
[22:08] <Ubulette> not good then
[22:09] <gnomefreak> im assuming it depends what theme your using?
[22:09] <Ubulette> no
[22:09] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[22:09] <gnomefreak> give me a minute ill upload screenshot
[22:10] <Ubulette> do you have /usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/mimetypes/gnome-mime-application-vnd.mozilla.webapp.png ?
[22:11] <gnomefreak> gnome-mime-application-vnd.mozilla.webapp.png
[22:11] <Ubulette> please show me right click menu
[22:11] <gnomefreak> gnome-mime-application-x-drivel.png
[22:11] <Ubulette> killall nautilus
[22:12] <gnomefreak> http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gnomefreak/images/detail/#511/screenshotwx3.png <<< before killall
[22:13] <Ubulette> ok
[22:13] <gnomefreak> after kill all its the same
[22:13] <Ubulette> hm
[22:14] <gnomefreak> it seems you cant take screenshot when context menu is open
[22:14] <Ubulette> add a delay
[22:14] <gnomefreak> dont know how ot screenshot from term
[22:14] <Ubulette> use the ui
[22:15] <Ubulette> applications / accessories / take screenshot
[22:18] <gnomefreak> uploading
[22:19] <gnomefreak> http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotso1.png
[22:20] <Ubulette> not the right link
[22:21] <gnomefreak> hmmm
[22:22] <gnomefreak> http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gnomefreak/images/detail/#86/screenshotso1.png
[22:22] <gnomefreak> try that
[22:22] <gnomefreak> wtf
[22:22] <gnomefreak> dont click on it paste link into browset
[22:22] <gnomefreak> browser
[22:23] <gnomefreak> atleast i cant click it here, it only uses half the link if i do
[22:23] <Ubulette> hmm. you sure you pulled my branch before building ?
[22:23] <gnomefreak> i didnt build it
[22:23] <gnomefreak> i used your .debs
[22:23] <Ubulette> ?
[22:23] <Ubulette> oh
[22:23] <Ubulette> fta4 ?
[22:23] <gnomefreak> saves me timeyes
[22:23] <Ubulette> hmm
[22:23] <gnomefreak> saves me time   and yes
[22:24] <gnomefreak> are you sure it doesnt go on theme?
[22:24] <Ubulette> yes
[22:25] <Ubulette> and in firefox ?
[22:28] <gnomefreak> what about firefox
[22:29] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/firefox-prism.png
[22:29] <Ubulette> try file:///usr/share/prism/apps/
[22:30] <gnomefreak> same
[22:31] <Ubulette> as in nothing ?
[22:31] <Ubulette> or same as me ?
[22:31] <gnomefreak> posting screenshot
[22:31] <gnomefreak> same as in nautilud for me
[22:31] <gnomefreak> -d +s
[22:32] <gnomefreak> http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gnomefreak/images/detail/#98/firefoxprismha3.png
[22:32] <gnomefreak> i have to run out for ~ 1 hr should i build it or just keep it as is to test?
[22:33] <Ubulette> i'm out of ideas. it works on my side
[22:34] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: amuse me and try human icon theme
[22:36] <gnomefreak> bbs
[22:36] <Ubulette> that's what i'm using
[22:37] <Ubulette> i still see the prisms whatever the theme, industrialtango, high contrast inverse, ...
[23:07] <Ubulette> hmm, i think i got it
[23:13] <Ubulette> gnomefreak, please retry using my branch. it's tiny/fast
[23:26] <Admiral_Chicago> Ubulette: it had a copyright picture license agreeement but the program is GPL so the images should be copyleft
[23:28] <Ubulette> Admiral_Chicago, oh, i read the picture was GPL too
[23:30] <Admiral_Chicago> nope
[23:30] <Admiral_Chicago> so can someone explain to me what  prism is
[23:30] <Admiral_Chicago> i just saw something about that branch today in my email
[23:31] <Ubulette> http://labs.mozilla.com/2007/10/prism/
[23:31] <Admiral_Chicago> looking
[23:31] <Admiral_Chicago> thanks
[23:32] <Ubulette> or more generally http://wiki.mozilla.org/Prism
[23:32] <Ubulette> I think i'm done packaging it
[23:33] <Admiral_Chicago> very interesting idea
[23:42] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: you have tarball handy or does mozclient make one (or should i use one from PPA?
[23:43] <Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tarballs/prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030.orig.tar.gz
[23:43] <Ubulette> (as always)
[23:43] <gnomefreak> ah
[23:49] <Ubulette> gnomefreak, so ? you're done ? (it builds in 5 sec for me)
[23:49] <gnomefreak> no im reading something ill build it after im done
[23:54] <gnomefreak> Ubulette: you built this for gutsy or hardy?
[23:54] <Ubulette> in my ppa, both
[23:55] <gnomefreak> ok
[23:55] <gnomefreak> just checking
[23:55] <Ubulette> that's the only thing i'm still building for gutsy in my ppa, i'm out of space


[17:03] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230509)


[12:59] <Seilo> hi guys
[12:59] <Seilo> i need help
[01:00] <Seilo> with bazaar
[01:00] <Seilo> anya1 there?
[01:02] <somerville32> Hey
[01:02] <somerville32> :)
[01:03] <somerville32> Whats up?
[01:04] <Seilo> well
[01:04] <Seilo> i want to push somethign with bzr
[01:05] <Seilo> on launchpad
[01:05] <Seilo> but cant
[01:05] <somerville32> What is stopping you?
[01:05] <Seilo> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects$ bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:05] <Seilo> Enter passphrase for key '/home/seif/.ssh/id_dsa':
[01:05] <Seilo> bzr: ERROR: File exists: u'/~seif/gnome-vpnc/.bzr': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
[01:07] <somerville32> Did you do: svn init
[01:07] <somerville32> svn add
[01:07] <somerville32> ?
[01:08] <Seilo> u mean
[01:08] <Seilo> bzr init
[01:08] <Seilo> yep
[01:08] <somerville32> Is errr... yeah
[01:08] <somerville32> ok
[01:08] <somerville32> --create-prefix
[01:09] <Seilo> huh
[01:09] <Seilo> u mean
[01:09] <Seilo> bzr push --create-prefix<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:09] <Seilo> ????
[01:09] <yankees26> somerville32: nice :P (the svn usage :P)
[01:09] <yankees26> Seilo: is this your first push?
[01:09] <yankees26> on that branch i mean
[01:10] <Seilo> yeah
[01:10] <Seilo> :)
[01:10] <yankees26> ya
[01:10] <yankees26> try it with --create-prefix
[01:10] <Seilo> i uploaded a ssh key
[01:10] <Seilo> i did
[01:10] <Seilo> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects$ bzr push --create-prefix<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:10] <Seilo> Enter passphrase for key '/home/seif/.ssh/id_dsa':
[01:10] <Seilo> bzr: ERROR: File exists: u'/~seif/gnome-vpnc/.bzr': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
[01:10] <yankees26> i remember reading somewhere on lp it says if its your first push --create-prefix should be used
[01:10] <yankees26> hm...
[01:10] <yankees26> i have no idea
[01:10] <somerville32> See #bzr
[01:33] <yankees26> is it possible to delete a product that you've registerd?
[02:42] <Seilo> hi guys
[02:42] <Seilo> i am trying ot sign the ubuntu code of conduct
[02:42] <Seilo> by doing
[02:42] <Seilo> gpg --clearsign UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt
[02:42] <Seilo> it asks me for password etc
[02:42] <Seilo> i put it in
[02:42] <Seilo> gpg: can't open `UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt': No such file or directory
[02:42] <Seilo> gpg: UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt: clearsign failed: file open error
[02:42] <Seilo> help
[02:46] <somerville32> Does the file exist?
[02:47] <Seilo> yeah
[03:32] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[03:33] <somerville32> Hi mpt :)
[06:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74226 in launchpad "Oops links should be LP-developer-only, and/or not in ~jamesh/" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74226
[10:39] <RichiH> kiko_race, mdz, lifeless, SteveA: we are thinking of getting the freenode site translated. it is, of course, not software and the licence is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/ -- as it is nd, this means it is not open, either. would it be possible to make an exemption for freenode? the reason it's nd is that we do not want to be misquoted :/
[10:42] <mdke> RichiH: people tend not to be around on a sunday, but you can email the mailing list and that will ensure they'll see it.
[10:42] <mdke> you might want to add sabdfl to the list of people you're pinging, too :)
[10:48] <RichiH> mdke: ah, didn't know he was in here :)
[10:48] <RichiH> mdke: i try to avoid mailing lists to lessen my spam, though (works, too!)
[10:48] <RichiH> mdke: i will simply wait here and ask on monday if needed
[10:51] <mdke> RichiH: ok!
[10:56] <RichiH> mdke: and thanks :)
[10:56] <mdke> yw
[02:23] <gummibaerchen> Hello,
[02:23] <gummibaerchen> how can I join a specific Product?
[02:26] <somerville32> What product?
[02:27] <gummibaerchen> gnome-vpnc
[02:27] <gummibaerchen> someone from the forum asked for help, but i have never worked with launchpad before
[02:27] <gummibaerchen> or muste he invite me?
[02:35] <somerville32> He would need to invite you to the ground the drives or maintains the product
[02:35] <somerville32> *group
[02:36] <gummibaerchen> ok :)
[02:58] <gummibaerchen> how can a poll start without any options.. stupid software... ;) no way to delete polls before they end?
[03:02] <gummibaerchen> --- Q: I found a user, who has a 0-Karma and whos Mail address isn't valid, could you please delete him, or change his "name" as I want to use it?
[03:06] <somerville32> Is it you?
[03:08] <gummibaerchen> no :)
[03:09] <gummibaerchen> i want his name, because he wasn't active, tried to mail him but undelivered mail...
[03:17] <gummibaerchen> but that reminds me, i think i have an old account with my old e-mail address
[03:17] <gummibaerchen> can you check wether<EMAIL_ADDRESS>exists in your database?
[03:21] <somerville32> Not my database :]
[03:22] <gummibaerchen> :)
 Now I'm having trouble pushing to lp.net
[03:23] <gummibaerchen> me to
[03:23] <RichiH> try to recover the password with that email? (if it is emailbased)
[03:24] <gummibaerchen> but there is no package paramiko
[03:24] <gummibaerchen> mail is not mine anymore
[03:46] <gummibaerchen> i'm serious with that issue, nothin you can do?
[04:08] <somerville32> Ask an lp admin
[04:12] <gummibaerchen> where do i find them?
[04:23] <somerville32> I'd ask on Monday
[04:23] <somerville32> Most developers aren't here on the weekend
[04:28] <gummibaerchen> ok :)
[06:39] <somerville32> wb
[07:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71482 in language-pack-kde-fr-base "Missing translations in language-pack-kde-fr-base package" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71482
[07:51] <yankees26> anyone know if its possible to delete a product that I've registered?
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74288 in launchpad "Text in top navigation bar incorrectly rendered in Konqueror" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74288
[09:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74296 in rosetta "Display only "diff" translation when we have both product and distro package" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74296
[10:30] <_thumper_> ping mpt
[10:32] <lifeless> morning _thumper_
[10:32] <_thumper_> lifeless, morning
[10:33] <_thumper_> I have interred myself at the local library to avoid the children
[10:33] <lifeless> :)
[10:33] <_thumper_> mobile broadband seems to be working
[10:34] <LarstiQ> moin lifeless, _thumper_
[10:34] <LarstiQ> _thumper_: heh :)
[10:35] <_thumper_> morning LarstiQ
[10:35] <lifeless> sweet
[10:35] <_thumper_> pulling updates now
[10:36] <_thumper_> about a month worth to get :)
[10:36] <kiko_race> gummibaerchen, the poll feature has a few open bugs open, but because it's not used very much they haven't been a priority
[10:37] <LarstiQ> kiko_race: you have irc access from a race bike?
[10:37] <gummibaerchen> wil i delete the poll when its over?
[10:37] <kiko_race> kiko
[10:37] <gummibaerchen> *can I
[10:37] <kiko_race> LarstiQ, I just got back
[10:37] <kiko_race> I am completely exhausted
[10:37] <_thumper_> kiko_race how did you do?
[10:38] <kiko_race> _thumper_, I did third overall and second in age group
[10:38] <kiko_race> it was a 12 hour race, midnight to noon
[10:39] <lifeless> kiko_race: congrats!
[10:39] <_thumper_> kiko_race: damn that's long
[10:39] <kiko_race> it was good but I had a hard time eating after about 7h
[10:39] <kiko_race> thanks lifeless
[10:39] <LarstiQ> kiko_race: wow. What kind of race was that?
[10:39] <kiko_race> I coudn't eat anything without getting kinda nauseous
[10:39] <kiko_race> well, anything but DORITOS
[10:39] <kiko_race> the secret of life
[10:40] <kiko_race> LarstiQ, a mountain bike race
[10:40] <kiko_race> I lost the lead about 6h in
[10:40] <kiko_race> but I got some nice prizes
[10:40] <kiko_race> and I only crashed once, a very minor crash
[10:40] <kiko_race> so I was pleased
[10:41] <_thumper_> kiko_race, how did it work in the dark?
[10:43] <kiko_race> _thumper_, we use lights, both bike and helmet mounted. the sections of singletrack are tricky but manageable; I find the fire roads a bit more dangerous because it's fast and you don't always figure out the camber of the curves until it's too late
[10:43] <kiko_race> there was one pretty scary drop in the circuit that at night was terrifying
[10:43] <_thumper_> kiko_race that sounds like the sort of crazy thing my brother in law would do
[10:44] <kiko_race> you should tell him we have good races down here
[11:08] <SteveA_> morning
[11:10] <_thumper_> morning SteveA
[11:11] <SteveA> hi tim
[11:13] <kiko> zzz
[11:13] <SteveA> good night kiko
[11:32] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:32] <mpt> Hello _thumper_!
[11:33] <_thumper_> hiya mpt
[11:34] <_thumper_> mpt: I wanted to chat about a better icon for branches
[11:34] <mpt> oh, speaking of which
[11:34] <mpt> kiko-zzz, bugzilla.gnome.org has a nifty icon for "has patch": a pair of crossed sticking plasters (aka band-aids)
[11:35] <mpt> _thumper_, yes, maybe "branch" should go on the list of Icons That Need Help
[11:35] <kiko-zzz> mpt, we can't use that but maybe the idea?
[11:35] <_thumper_> :)
[11:35] <mpt> But I don't know what the procedure is for adding icons to that list
[11:35] <_thumper_> mpt: sticking plasters though might not convey the idea that it is "fixed" rather than "patched over"
[11:35] <mpt> I'll talk with SteveA about it
[11:39] <mpt> _thumper_, did you just want to say "we really need a branch icon", or do you have a suggestion about what it should look like?
[11:39] <ajmitch> morning mpt
[11:40] <_thumper_> mpt: I was thinking of the icon that is used on www.bazaar-vcs.org
[11:40] <_thumper_> when I use firefox I get an icon on the tab
[11:40] <_thumper_> it looks ok
[11:40] <mpt> kiko-zzz, it looks like Mark didn't quite understand your issue with product title vs. display name
[11:40] <_thumper_> better than a list icon anyway
[11:40] <mpt> yes
[11:41] <kiko-zzz> mpt, that's a bit of an understatement!
[11:41] <kiko-zzz> he finally understood and advised me in private communication
[11:41] <mpt> ok
[11:41] <mpt> And what was the advice?
[11:41] <mpt> (because I'll be reviewing headings of every template shortly)
[11:45] <kiko-zzz> that the user should include the displayname when typing in the product title.
[11:47] <SteveA> I think we should ask the user for just the title
[11:47] <SteveA> and then make the display name customizable separately -- set it to the product title to start with
[11:47] <SteveA> or ideally, have a NULL or something to say "look at the title"
[11:53] <mpt> So is "Firefox is Mozilla's award-winning next generation Web browser." an appropriate title, then? :-)
[11:53] <mpt> It includes the display name
[11:54] <SteveA> I think there's a circularity there
[11:54] <SteveA> in that appropriate style names will depend where we choose to use them
[11:54] <mpt> yeah


[00:58] <rostam> HI I have a ubuntu system with two network interface, eth0 connected to cloud, eth1 connected to private network with  IP address <IP_ADDRESS>. From devices connected to eth1 I like to access outside world through eth0. What should i do? thx
[00:59] <sarnold> rostam: look for "masquerade howto" or "nat howto" -- you'll need to configure your system as a Network Address Translation firewall
[00:59] <rostam> sarnold,  thanks
[03:13] <matkam111> Hey I was wondering if anyone knew what log I could look at  to see whats changing permissions on a file
[03:13] <matkam111> Essentially something is changing them perms on a few of my files almost immediately after i modify them to what I need
[03:27] <hallyn> matkam111: if they are devices then it's probably udev.  but there's no central log.  you might try pyinotify.
[03:36] <matkam111> hallyn: you may no about this. I'm trying to setup a foreman smart proxy to prevision a device but it seems puppet (or something else) is constantly changing certain file perms that foreman requires
[03:36] <matkam111> know*
[05:01] <hallyn> sorry, fraid i don't, but now that you've mentioned puppet chances are someone will come by who does
[05:01]  * hallyn out
[05:46] <coalbe> hello all! could someone direct me on how to enable or fix unicode? seeing a tone of strange chars when using tmux
[09:02] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:03] <cfhowlett> lordievader morning?  no ... but greetings, anyway.
[09:05] <lordievader> Hey cfhowlett, how are you?
[09:05] <cfhowlett> lordievader no complaints here :)
[09:07] <lordievader> :)
[10:12] <bjensen82> how do I regenerate conf files for exim4? I tried removing and reinstalling the package without any luck
[10:59] <mega2> how do i increase the partition in server 10.04
[10:59] <dcosnet> parted
[11:00] <lordievader> mega2: For the root partition you need to boot a live-cd.
[11:00] <mega2> have usb
[11:01] <mega2> used gparted but lvm is locked and wont let me resize
[11:05] <bekks> mega2: Then disable swap, and it will be unlocked.
[11:05] <mega2> can i do that in gparted
[11:06] <lordievader> LVM support live extends :D
[11:10] <bekks> mega2: Yes.
[11:10] <mega2> ok thanks
[11:11] <bekks> lordievader: If it isnt locked, yes. ;)
[11:11] <bekks> If the volume isnt locked, to be specific.
[11:11] <lordievader> bekks: Guess I havend faced a locked volume yet ;)
[11:11] <mega2> there is a key simble next to it
[11:11] <bekks> lordievader: Then try to operate on an active swap volume ;)
[11:12] <mega2> i have colned my server to a bigger hd
[11:12] <lordievader> Nah, I'd rather not.
[12:22] <bjensen82>  where can I find a guide for setting up exim4 with a smart host?  Im using mandrillapp
[12:37]  * RoyK just uses postfix - can't beleive why exim is standard
[13:54] <FrEaKmAn_> hi all.. if I have an app which stores data.. where should I store data? what is best practice? /var, /home ?
[14:05] <rbasak> FrEaKmAn_: what sort of data, and what sort of app?
[14:07] <rbasak> FrEaKmAn_: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html is best practice.
[14:07] <rbasak> Probably not /home as it's a system wide thing.
[14:07] <rbasak> I use /var/local for stuff I've installed in /usr/local or otherwise configured directly myself, but I don't see that in the standard.
[14:08] <rbasak>  /srv for data served by the system.
[14:10] <paradisee_> o/
[14:10] <paradisee_> hello everyone, im trying to remove postfix on kubuntu 13.10, but it doesn't let me do it..any tip?
[14:14] <rbasak> !details|paradisee_
[14:14] <paradisee_> sudo apt-get remove postfix
[14:15] <paradisee_> it says: interrupted
[14:15] <paradisee_> http://dpaste.com/
[14:16] <paradisee_> http://dpaste.com/1777472/
[20:14] <_1_mindfire2> hallo :)
[23:03] <SysTom> Hi, I changed the IP on an Ubuntu server, and now I'm seeing "Host x.x.x.x is not allowed to connect to MySQL server"
[23:03] <SysTom> (the x.x.x.x being the local IP)
[23:03] <SysTom> Grants are assigned to the localhost
[23:03] <SysTom> What obviously step am I missing to fix this?
[23:04] <SysTom> *obvious
[23:05] <sheptard> are you talking to mysqld on localhost or the internal ip
[23:06] <SysTom> meh
[23:06] <SysTom> just changed it to <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:06] <SysTom> and now it's working, I guess that makes sesne
[23:06] <SysTom> It wasn't set to that before though, hey-ho.


[00:20] <meganerd> ailo_: well, I have a very rudimentary data collection banged out.  Work was busier than expected so I did not get any further.
[00:20] <meganerd> ailo_: also, lsusb is tougher to parse than lspci.  I just need to add a second step.
[00:27] <meganerd> ailo_: If you want to have a look at it here is the latest (pretty tame) version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/594260/
[00:37] <ailo_> meganerd, Ok. I'm sure we can solve that later on. Then there's starting jack and ardour. Don't know if we can change frames/period on the fly. I think it's possible. xruns from starting application should not be counted. Last time I only came as far as passing the error message from jack, but I didn't parse it.
[00:39] <ailo_> And I've never started ardour from the command line either
[00:39] <ailo_> Actually, it may be wiser to use another program
[00:39] <ailo_> puredata is a nice tool
[00:44] <ailo_> meganerd, On installing the kernel and giving user realtime privilege, I already have a script that does that, after checking on those. Just to let you know there is code on that.
[01:12]  * Kokito wonders if he is still connected to the channel...
[01:12] <ailo_> Kokito, ?
[01:12] <Kokito> ah, I am :)
[01:12] <Kokito> hi ailo_
[01:13] <ailo_> Hi.
[01:13]  * Kokito has done a bit of work on the new website theme front page
[01:13] <ailo_> Kokito, Are you getting close to letting us try it out?
[01:15] <Kokito> ailo_: as soon as a get the front page slider images done, I will put it online for you guys to play with it
[01:15] <Kokito> most likely next week
[01:16] <ailo_> Kokito, If you don't have anywhere else to put it, just use my server later
[01:16] <Kokito> I have hosting space/bandwidth
[01:16] <Kokito> it's shared hosting, but for staging should be ok
[01:17] <ailo_> Kokito, ok
[01:18] <Kokito> thanks for the offer though :)
[01:18] <ailo_> Kokito, Sure
[01:36] <Kokito> brb
[01:56] <meganerd> ailo_: I was thinking of using csound since it has a complete CLI interface. We can also start and stop jack whenever we want, we would just start it with different variables.
[01:57] <meganerd> ailo_: it is not a hard problem, just a tedious one.
[01:57] <ailo_> meganerd, Sounds like a deal, then
[01:58] <ailo_> I should look into that program myself. Gotten used to do everything in csound
[01:58] <ailo_> I mean puredata
[01:58] <ailo_> Since some apps aren't up to par when it comes to stabilityu
[01:59] <ailo_> meganerd, We don't need anything special happen either. But, to cut down the testing time, I think we need to do one thing
[02:00] <ailo_> meganerd, We start with the lower settings. As soon as there is an xrun, or a certain number of xruns, we go to a higher latency
[02:00] <ailo_> meganerd, When it can run for a longer period of time without xruns, we have the results we need
[02:01] <ailo_> meganerd, At least, it needs to run for some time on the lowest possible latency, before we can determine it was stable
[02:01] <ailo_> meganerd, There are some weird things happening with -generic, that doesn't look normal xrun-wise to me, on one of my systems.
[02:02] <ailo_> meganerd, So, we need to give it some time..
[02:02] <meganerd> ailo_: we can just specify the settings in an array, or start from a baseline and just increment from there.  The idea I had was to use csound and some sample audio, it would copy it, transform it, mangle it, basically simulating the sorts of things that happen in the real world.
[02:02] <meganerd> ailo_: looks like I am going to be dusting off my bash guides :)
[02:03] <ailo_> meganerd, I think the test needs to run for at least 5 minutes on one setting
[02:04] <ailo_> meganerd, So, it would be good to skip a setting, if there is a lot of xruns already in the beginning
[02:04] <ailo_> meganerd, Just mark it: unusable, or something
[02:04] <ailo_> meganerd, And, when a setting works, no need to go further
[02:04] <ailo_> No need to count xruns at all, reallyu
[02:05] <ailo_> Unless, we want to compare unusable settings as well
[02:05] <meganerd> well, I am going to have to in order to determine severity.  I would probably ignore the first 10-30 seconds until everything is loaded,
[02:06] <meganerd> I want to keep the overall footprint small, so even netbooks can get usable results
[02:06] <ailo_> meganerd, Yeah, We don't want to count xruns that come from loading
[02:06] <ailo_> netbooks. Just realized I have one... :P
[02:55] <ScottL> ailo_, are you still going to be able to help with ISO testing?
[02:55] <ailo_> ScottL, Sure. Do we start now?
[02:55] <ScottL> sure, now is okay :)
[02:55] <ScottL> i'm downloading the ISO still
[02:55] <ailo_> ScottL, Daily?
[02:57] <ScottL> ailo_, i was using the official qa testing iso, i'll get the link
[02:58] <ScottL> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/5457
[02:58] <ScottL> i won't be able to start and finish one tonight, but i can start it tomorrow after work
[03:01] <ailo_> ScottL, Ok. Got it. So, we do this, once a day?
[03:01] <ScottL> no, we just need to install these images to validate the actual ISO
[03:01] <ScottL> ailo_, these are milestones we need to do throughout the cycle
[03:02] <ScottL> it wouldn't hurt to test a few other things, like does jack work as expected
[03:02] <ailo_> ScottL, Ok. I thought we did this because of some problems
[03:02] <ScottL> ailo_, yes, there were problems with the ISO actually building at one point
[03:03] <ScottL> unfortunately, the problems came when we were scheduled to actually test the beta2 iso
[03:04] <ailo_> ScottL, Ok. I will install today. I'll try to test as much as possible, just to have a good look at it ( I really need to setup network installation, cause DVD burning is not optimal )
[03:05] <ScottL> ailo_, are you able to do a full install?
[03:05] <ailo_> ScottL, Haven't tried from DVD in a while now
[03:05] <ScottL> if not it's okay, i can do all the test, it will just take a little bit of time
[03:06] <ailo_> ScottL, As long as there's no problem with the image, I should be able to install
[03:25] <ScottL> ailo_, oh, good :)
[03:26] <ScottL> sorry, wife got home and we were catching up a bit
[03:26]  * holstein is home
[03:26] <holstein> ailo_: let me know what you dont get to
[03:26] <holstein> i need to mess with my bass a bit
[03:26] <holstein> but im around
[03:27] <ailo_> I'm downloading now. Expect to install within an hour. If I fail to make a DVD, I might have to wait a couple of hours, but no later than 4
[03:27] <ailo_> Or, no more than 4h from now
[04:32] <Kokito> new iteration of website front page: https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5595645470727783042
[04:33] <ailo_> Kokito, You've been working on categories too. Looks great
[04:33] <holstein> yeah
[04:33] <holstein> smokin :)
[04:33] <Kokito> glad you like it :)
[04:33] <Kokito> ailo_: what do you mean by categories?
[04:34] <ailo_> Kokito, Audio, Video, Graphics. Not much work, but seeing that, it looks like it's supposed to be there
[04:34] <Kokito> ahhh! :)
[04:34] <Kokito> I see what you mean
[04:36] <ailo_> I think we might want some kind of quick-guide somewhere, or at least links to documentation. The way it works now, on the official site, I don't think is optimal. We're supposed to work out a new form for documentation for the next release, and the links on the main site should reflect that
[04:36] <ailo_> Probably, the main documentation will be in the wiki, anyhow
[04:36] <holstein> i just zoomed in
[04:36] <holstein> it gets even better
[04:38] <ailo_> But, I guess we have lots of time to decide some of the details, which is great
[04:51] <Kokito> ailo_: my idea is to take this in stages
[04:51] <Kokito> first get the theme and basic structure done
[04:51] <Kokito> then add features & content
[04:51] <Kokito> gradually
[04:51] <Kokito> with regards to the documentation, it could be migrated to the website
[04:52] <Kokito> it makes sense having all the information organized in one place
[04:52] <Kokito> and Drupal can accommodate wiki content w/o problems
[04:52] <Kokito> but whether that happens or not is out of my hands :)
[04:54] <ailo_> Kokito, It would probably be better to leave community documentation on the ubuntu wiki site, but if there is to be a Ubuntu Studio documentation, and the format is easy to mantain, perhaps we could add it to the main site. I'm thinking, at least a quick-guide of some sort, and links to videos
[04:55] <ailo_> Kokito, But, I think we have until 6 months to decide that
[04:59] <ailo_> Burnin', burnin', burniiiin'
[05:25] <ailo_> installin', installin', installiiin..
[05:29] <ailo_> ScottL, It won't go past the tasksel. Even when I don't choose any. Could be a bad DVD. Will try on virtualbox
[13:41] <scott-work> ailo: holstein: and anyone else interested, the original thought on kokito's front page and the "categories" (i.e. "welcome", "audio", "video", "graphics") was too....
[13:41] <scott-work> be a concise place for people who didn't really know about ubuntu studio to learn some good stuff quickly
[13:41] <scott-work> kinda like bullet point overview of what studio offers
[13:42] <scott-work> if you didn't know anythign about ubuntu studio, as a musician, what would you like to learn that might entice you to download and try ubuntu studio
[13:42] <scott-work> and i think the progress of kokito's work is brilliant!
[13:43] <ailo> Yeah. It's looking very nice
[13:43] <ailo> Very clear
[13:43] <ailo> Inviting
[13:43] <ailo> I'm installing on Virtual Box now
[13:43] <ailo> The install failed on my machine earlier
[13:43] <ailo> Couldn't get past tasksels
[13:45] <ailo> scott-work, And the background is purple on the alternate install
[13:45] <ailo> Not the end of the world :)
[13:57] <scott-work> ailo: which background?
[13:57] <ailo> scott-work, During installation using the alternate DVD.
[13:58] <scott-work> i have a purple-ish background for the grub menu which i think is sick, i'm guessing it's the same colour
[13:59] <ailo> scott-work, It seems to be installing now
[13:59] <scott-work> i feel the colour of the grub menu doesn't look "artsy" or "styling" or "wow", rather it looks like my montior is broken or it's a mistake
[13:59] <ailo> scott-work, It's like this every other time I burn a DVD
[13:59] <scott-work> ailo: that's good it's installing now :)
[13:59] <ailo> scott-work, But that's on virtual box, though
[13:59] <scott-work> ailo: that's strange, i've almost never had problems with burning dvd's
[14:00] <ailo> scott-work, But, now it failed :(
[14:00] <scott-work> i tend to use RW dvds and eventually the disc goes bad but that's really about it
[14:00] <scott-work> ailo: awww, it's okay, you tried, i'll get them all this weekend
[14:00] <ailo> scott-work, I probably don't use the best sort of DVD's
[14:00] <scott-work> my son won't be happy he will not be able to play minecraft while i do it though :P
[14:01] <ailo> scott-work, It's not any tasksel either
[14:02] <ailo> It's won't install even if I select none of them
[14:02] <ailo> It's funny that this can happy at beta 2 stage
[14:02] <ailo> Did we miss it at beta 1?
[14:03] <ailo> Don't think I did a real install then
[14:03] <ailo> happen*
[14:06] <ailo> scott-work, Seems like it's hal
[14:06] <ailo> scott-work, The log said, ubuntustudio-desktop: Depends hal, but is not installabe
[14:08] <ailo> scott-work, hal has been removed from the standard Ubuntu Desktop a while back, and it is supposed to be outdated
[14:40] <holstein> ailo: i got so tired of tasksels
[14:40] <holstein> i think it was 9.04
[14:40] <holstein> i swore them off
[14:58] <scott-work> hal should still be available although in the universe repository
[14:58] <scott-work> ailo: but maybe i royally screwed up with the ISO link :/
[14:59] <scott-work> i keep looking at this image the kokito did because i think it rocks so hard: https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5595645470727783042
[14:59] <scott-work> ailo: wasn't this the link i gave you?  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
[14:59] <scott-work> if so then this should be the current images
[17:28] <ailo> scott-work, That's the link I used
[17:28] <ailo> hal caused the problem
[18:08] <scott-work> interesting, i'll double check this tonight/weekend
[20:04] <scott-work> holstein: did you get any ISO testing done?  did you experience the same problems as ailo?
[21:40] <holstein> scott-work: i saw the issue
[21:40] <holstein> and decided to hold off a bit
[21:40] <holstein> scott-work: will there be fixes?
[21:46] <scott-work> holstein:  i don't know that the trouble isn't specific to ailo's situation, i was hoping to have corroboration with someone else
[21:47] <ailo> scott-work, The trouble was that hal couldn't be installed. There was no error message about it being corrupted. I looked in the syslog, and it just said, it can't be installed
[21:57] <scott-work> ailo, i have downloaded the same ISO as you (i believe), if i have the same trouble I will then download the daily image and try again
[21:57] <scott-work> i know that there was some changes to the seeds during part of the QA testing with HAL
[21:58] <scott-work> it may be a situation where HAL is a problem and we *do* need to pull it out
[21:58] <scott-work> it may be a problem that was outside the scope of the image building problems that were experienced
[21:58] <ailo> scott-work, They seem to be updated now and again. Mine was downloaded the same time as yours yesterday.
[21:59] <scott-work> they rebuilt the image several times the other day so it may be a complete crap shoot as to which one we got :/
[22:00] <scott-work> i am tempted to just download the latest daily image and start there, but i really do want to see if there is a problem with the beta 2 image
[22:00] <ailo> scott-work, Right. I should try downloading again, and use Virtual Box this time to test that it works first
[22:01] <holstein>  cool
[22:01] <holstein> im getting on it then...
[22:02] <holstein> ailo: was that 32 and 64?
[22:02] <ailo> holstein, 32
[22:03] <ailo> holstein, That's what I was told to install by ScottL
[22:03] <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all right?
[22:03] <holstein> thats where im getting them
[22:03] <ailo> holstein, Tried on my machine and virtual box
[22:03] <ailo> holstein, Right


[03:20] <RussellGee> Could some have a look at this please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/250524
[05:11] <crimsonredmk> hey, i've got a question, downloaded alpha 3
[05:13] <crimsonredmk> how is vmware intergration done, is it a package?
[05:14] <crimsonredmk> or a new X driver or...well, what is it?
[05:44] <fabbione> Fjodor: nope... cph
[10:06] <andy_js> IS UBUNTU PROPRIETARY?
[10:07] <andy_js> According to Google, the patch for Visual effects is not publicly available.  Please prove otherwise.
[10:10] <jazzkutya> andy_js_: patch for what?
[10:11] <andy_js_> Patch for the "Visual Effects" tab in ubuntu's gnome-appearance-properties
[10:12] <jazzkutya> what packaget it is in?
[10:12] <jazzkutya> i guess apt-get source should retreive it correctly
[10:13] <jazzkutya> but i am not an ubuntu developer
[10:13] <jazzkutya> retrieve
[10:13] <andy_js_> A post on the Ubuntu forum led me to believe the patch was not included in the sources in the repos
[10:14] <jcristau> andy_js_: you believe everything you read on web forums?
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: apt-get source gnome-control-center
[10:17] <andy_js_> I've heard a lot of things about ubuntu, maybe they are just rumors
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: Look in the source, debian/patches/95_desktop-efffects-intrgration.diff
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: And voila, i's GPLv2.
[10:17] <jpds> its*
[10:18] <andy_js_> thank you
[10:18] <andy_js_> jpds: You work for canonical?
[10:18] <jpds> andy_js_: No.
[14:11] <devfil> Hobbsee: can you please take a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imlib2/1.4.0-1.1ubuntu1 ?
[14:13] <Hobbsee> oh, shucks.
[14:14] <devfil> it needs a package in universe, but imlib2 is in main
[14:14] <Hobbsee> yes, i can see that....
[14:14] <devfil> in this case the dependency is added manually?
[14:14] <Hobbsee> !info libltdl3-dev
[14:15] <Hobbsee> added manually?
[14:15] <Hobbsee> yes, i'ts not via shlibdeps.
[14:15] <devfil> there are other packages with the same problem
[14:15]  * Hobbsee wonders why libltdl7-dev never got promoted.
[14:15] <Hobbsee> what, that they require hte old lib?
[14:16] <devfil> no that they need a package in universe to build but there are in main
[14:16] <Hobbsee> which others?
[14:17] <devfil> uhm I don't remember now let me search
[14:17] <Hobbsee> pitti: do you know why libltdl7-dev was never promoted?  libltdl3-dev was in main, then appears to have been NBS'd out.  I presume this is an oversight?
[14:18] <Hobbsee> (presumably it got forgotten about with the sync)
[14:25] <devfil> Hobbsee: denemo (main) needs libaubio-dev (universe)
[14:26] <Hobbsee> devfil: can you file a bug on that, and assign it to ogra?  (if there's not already one there)
[14:26] <Hobbsee> oh, wait, he already knows about it
[14:26] <ion_> Oh, denemo is in main? In that case, why is lilypond not?
[14:26] <Hobbsee> MIR is probably already on it's way
[14:26] <Hobbsee> ion_: *shrug*
[14:27] <devfil> directfb needs libts-dev
[14:27] <devfil> etc...
[14:29] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that's on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[14:30]  * Hobbsee assumes that the MIR's will get processed soon
[17:39] <alex-weej> are "apport-bug" tagged bugs given less priority than normal?
[17:39] <alex-weej> i use ubuntu-bug -p all the time to file bugs because it attaches all the right info
[18:49] <theclaw> is the bytecood interpreter in the hardy version of freetype disabled?
[18:51] <theclaw> I encounter exactly the same problem as describe in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freetype/+bug/60760
[20:36] <LaserJock> anybody know what happened to the Network system config GUI?
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> LaserJock, see bug 248163
[20:40] <LaserJock> Rocket2DMn: ah, thank you very much. I suspected something like that
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> you can install the program from the repos in the meantime
[20:40] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm doing
[20:42] <LaserJock> hmm, it still seems sort of messed up
[20:42] <Rocket2DMn> i havent checked lately, feel free to add to the bug report if needed though
[20:43] <LaserJock> I can't turn a Connection off from the gnome-network-admin
[20:43] <LaserJock> I can only set whether I want roaming or not
[20:43] <LaserJock> I guess if I set it to not roam bug leave it unconfigured it might suffice
[20:44] <LaserJock> yuck, I can't even do that
[20:44] <Rocket2DMn> good luck, im on my way out the door
[20:53] <slangasek> Keybuk: does libltdl7-dev not provide API compatibiltiy with libltdl3-dev?  (Or if it does, is there a reason it doesn't have a Provide: that's a consistent build-dependable interface?)
[20:56] <Keybuk> slangasek: ask Debian ;)
[21:01] <alex1> hi guys. I've created a patch for the appleir kernel module in the linux-ubuntu-modules package. what mailing list should I send the patch to?
[21:02] <crimsun> kernel-team at lists dot ubuntu
[21:02] <crimsun> you may wish to subscribe prior
[21:03] <alex1> crimsun, thanks
[21:14] <pwnguin> is this sslv2 stuff about servers or clients?
[21:23] <geser> pwnguin: it's about sslv2 support in openssl, so servers and clients are affected
[21:23] <pwnguin> well then
[21:24] <pwnguin> this might be stupid
[21:24] <geser> why?
[21:24] <pwnguin> i can't say I know enough about ssl and the history, but there are embedded devices that run ssl
[21:25] <pwnguin> if they happen to predate v3, that's kinda dangerous territory
[21:26] <geser> and they use sslv2 and not sslv3?
[21:26] <pwnguin> maybe, I don't know enough about it
[21:28] <pwnguin> but i havent really seen that discussed on the ML and I thought it was worth mentioning
[21:29] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: IMNSHO it's better with a visible breakage than having devices which are silently broken.
[21:29] <Mithrandir> since SSLv2 has vulnerabilities
[21:29] <pwnguin> wouldn't a warning be appropriate?
[21:29] <pwnguin> well
[21:29] <pwnguin> i guess some uses of SSL desire to be as invisible as possible
[21:31] <pwnguin> but i mean, you can force ssh to accept older protocols, cant you?
[21:32] <ScottK> SSLv2 should not be considered cryptographically secure in 2008.  Continuing to support it would be irresponsible.
[21:32] <pwnguin> breaking it would be user hostile
[21:32] <ScottK> Personally, I wanted this done for Intrepid, but didn't get to it.
[21:33] <ScottK> Anyone who needs v2 can run Hardy for 3 to 5 years.  That's plenty of warning.
[21:33] <pwnguin> fair enough
[21:33] <pwnguin> ScottK: do we still ship telnet?
[21:33] <ScottK> Yes, but it does not pretend to be secure.
[21:34] <ScottK> ftp too.
[21:35] <ScottK> Shipping things that are, by design, not secure and that lack of security is well known is fundamentally different than shipping with support for ancient versions of security protocols that are known not to be secure any longer.
[21:35] <Mithrandir> (as well as ktelnet, kftp, telnet-ssl and similar relativetly secure solutions)
[21:35]  * ScottK is a big user of sftp.
[21:35] <Laney> ScottK: Would you be in favour of removing WEP support then?
[21:36] <ScottK> Laney: That's a good question.
[21:36] <Mithrandir> Laney: if barely no users used it, yes, please.
[21:36] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: and that's the right question to be asking
[21:36] <pwnguin> How many people are affected by the change and how?
[21:36] <Mithrandir> but a fairly significant amount of the user base needs it; no.  We might want to add more visible warnings when WEP is in use, though.
[21:36] <ScottK> Laney: I think at this point we should be encouraging WPA.
[21:37] <ScottK> Planning for getting rid of obsolete cruft is not something we do very well.
[21:37] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: ah yes. http://chipzz.livejournal.com/39111.html :)
[21:37] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: TTBOMK, nobody has pointed at anything concrete actually needing SSLv2?
[21:37] <Laney> Of course. I was just going for a similar example that would (probably) have more impact
[21:37] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: how could they? ubuntu-devel is moderated
[21:38] <ScottK> pwnguin: The moderation queue gets cleared regularly.
[21:38] <Laney> Could it be temporarily disabled for the alphas and then we watch the bugs and confirm/revert later?
[21:38] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: plus, there's a selection bias
[21:38] <ScottK> ivoks reply to my GnuTLS question only lagged on ubuntu-devel by a couple of hours.
[21:39] <ScottK> Laney: I'd suggest something like announcing NOW that the next LTS, 10.04 will ship without WEP support, so get ready.
[21:39] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: what I'm seeing is people trying to find anything that needs SSLv2 and failing, so this is more widespread than "I don't use it myself, so drop it".
[21:39] <Laney> ScottK: I was referring to SSL, but yes that could be a plan.
[21:39] <Mithrandir> ScottK: probably too early, I'm afraid. :-/
[21:40] <ScottK> Probably.
[21:40] <Laney> I'd like to be able to get other distros/upstreams on board for a change like that though
[21:40] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: The thing is, I dont have the world's supply of embedded network devices handy
[21:40] <Laney> (WEP)
[21:40] <ScottK> Personally I pitched all my WEP only gear in ~2001, but I know a lot of people still use it.
[21:40] <Mithrandir> but I'm all for adding big, fat warnings to NM when you connect to a WEP "secured" network.
[21:40] <ScottK> That sounds good.
[21:40] <Chipzz> ScottK: nintendo ds doesn't do anything but WEP
[21:41] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: I used to have a stargate at work for a base station for TinyOS stuff. it ran an ancient kernel and it wouldn't surprise me if it were SSLv2
[21:41] <ScottK> OK, so maybe 12.04
[21:41] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: most of the embedded network devices I've seen that people are using at home (which means routers etc) don't even use SSL at all.
[21:41] <Mithrandir> since using SSL means you have to have a match between host name and SSL cert and be able to update the cert when it expires.
[21:42] <ScottK> My father hired someone to come set up his wireless network (he lives a long way from me) and they set it up as WEP, even though all the devices supported WPA.  I have no idea why.
[21:42] <ScottK> IME WPA is actually easier to set up.
[21:42] <pwnguin> i believe bruce runs wep
[21:42] <Laney> First option on the list?
[21:42] <ScottK> Possibly.
[21:43] <Laney> pwnguin: Schneier? I thought he ran unencrypted
[21:43] <Mithrandir> even Windows XP and such warns that WEP isn't secure.
[21:43] <pwnguin> Laney: perhaps.
[21:43] <pwnguin> WEP is protects against a certain threat model
[21:43] <ScottK> I've noticed now that when I'm in a position to see a lot of networks is about 10% unencrypted, 80% WEP, and 10% WPA.
[21:43] <ScottK> 3 years ago it was about 90% unencrypted.
[21:43] <Mithrandir> WEP is like closing your office door, signalling that you don't want to be disturbed.
[21:44] <pwnguin> the idiot neighbor and marginally interested internet thieves
[21:44] <ScottK> Which is useful when lots of other people don't have doors at all, but if everyone has the door closed, no so much.
[21:45] <pwnguin> http://my.opera.com/yngve/blog/2007/10/03/new-w-not-in-kestrel-the-death-of-ssl-v2
[21:46] <pwnguin> after reading that, I think it might be okay
[21:47] <Mithrandir> heh, yngve blogs now?
[21:47] <pwnguin> apparently
[21:47] <pwnguin> it was the first hit for "sslv2"
[21:47] <pwnguin> well, among them
[21:48] <Mithrandir> and FF doesn't support it either, AIUI?
[21:48] <Mithrandir> well, libnss doesn't
[21:48] <pwnguin> well who's libnss
[21:48] <pwnguin> ours or firefox's?
[21:51] <Mithrandir> NSS is the Firefox SSL library.
[21:51] <Mithrandir> Netscape Security Support or somesuch
[21:51] <Mithrandir> Description: Network Security Service libraries
[21:59] <pwnguin> actually, some wierd stuff uses libnss, and if I read a bug correctly, mozilla demands we ship THEIR library
[22:01] <pwnguin> I believe the fix was to build the libnss they ship and link mozilla to it, but leave the rest alone
[22:01] <cjwatson> in general I would advise against trying to reverse-engineer discussions with mozilla from reading random bug reports
[22:02] <pwnguin> heh
[22:02] <pwnguin> in specific?
[22:02] <cjwatson> I haven't read this one
[22:03] <cjwatson> mozilla have asked that we put our patches through their review process (aside from some classes generally agreed to be unobjectionable) in order to use firefox branding
[22:03] <cjwatson> that doesn't equate to "must use mozilla's libnss" as far as I know
[22:04] <pwnguin> lemme dig up the bug for ya
[22:04] <cjwatson> no thanks, it's approaching bedtime
[22:04] <pwnguin> alright
[22:04] <cjwatson> I'm confident in asac's ability to deal with it appropriately :)
[22:04] <pwnguin> the reasoning i saw is that our libnss broke weave, and that not shipping their libnss sounded like a branding problem
[22:05] <pwnguin> weave works today, so i guess we're ok
[23:27] <IntuitiveNipple> Is there a recommended way for an application to determine the system-default file manager (so whether it is Ubuntu, Xubuntu, etc. a file-manager can be started) ?
[23:28] <ion_> If “xdg-open .” doesn’t do exactly that, it should be fixed. :-)
[23:35] <IntuitiveNipple> ion_: Thanks... that'll be good for [XK]*ubuntu ? (I'm creating a patch for an app that currently does "os.system("nautilus --browser  obex://["+dest+"] &")"
[23:36] <ion_> intuitivenipple: Sorry, i’m not sure it works anywhere. It doesn’t seem to work in Gnome.
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> oh... it did for me just now :)
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> I'm on Ubuntu Hardy
[23:37] <ion_> Heh, interesting.
[23:37] <ion_> I’m on intrepid.
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> ahh well!
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> thanks anyway... Googling wasn't helping solve that one
[23:38] <ion_> But i think it should be the right way to do it, as soon as it’s fixed to work in every environment. :-)
[23:38] <emgent> hello
[23:38] <ion_> Hi
[23:49] <IntuitiveNipple> darn. xdg-open fails with an obex:// service ("Error showing url: Service not available")


[01:39] <thumper> davecheney: what would your recommendation be around wanting a max that works with ints?
[01:42] <davecheney> thumper: what is the question ?
[01:42] <thumper> davecheney: well, math.max works on float64
[01:42] <thumper> but I'm trying to find the longest int
[01:43] <davecheney> you'll find lots of
[01:43] <davecheney> func max(a, b int) int { if a > b { return a } return b } 's
[01:43] <davecheney> in the codebase
[01:43] <davecheney> that is the current standard
[01:48] <thumper> I just realized that codereview.appspot was sending email to my gmail account (that I don't actually read)
[01:48] <thumper> and I can't configure it to send email to my normal address
[01:49]  * thumper chalks up another mark against rietveld
[01:52] <thumper> davecheney: so why did your last comment not go to the merge proposal?
[01:52] <davecheney> thumper: i have no idea
[01:52] <davecheney> to be honest, when I joined, the attitude was to ignore the MP and use Rietveld
[01:52] <davecheney> the comment should arrive on the MP evnetually, it was cc'd on the review
[01:53] <davecheney> so you should have got the comments via the route of
[01:53] <davecheney> rietveld -> mp -> gophers group -> you
[01:59] <thumper> it is faster...
[01:59] <thumper> rietveld -> mp -> me (as I proposed the merge)
[01:59] <thumper> but it doesn't arrive on the mp
[01:59] <thumper> since I wrote all that email shit with abentley, I know how it works
[02:00] <thumper> oh I know what it is
[02:00] <thumper> the email address that it is coming from is not linked to any known launchpad user
[02:00] <thumper> so it drops them on the floor
[02:01] <thumper> since my gmail account isn't linked to my LP user, LP ignores all email from it
[02:01] <davecheney> bzzt
[02:01] <thumper> obviously roger has linked his gmail to LP user
[02:01] <thumper> his default email address for the LP user is his canonical one
[02:02] <thumper> which is what the outgoing MP email is sent as
[02:02] <davecheney> maybe, he was winging for months that he wasn't getting any updates
[02:02] <thumper> that is what it is
[02:02]  * thumper knows it
[02:02] <thumper> so what I have to do is to add my google mail address to LP
[02:02] <thumper> and so does every other user
[02:03] <thumper> which sounds crackful
[02:03] <thumper> would be better if rietveld would allow me to configure my email address
[02:04] <davecheney> hmm, that might be unpossible
[02:04] <davecheney> canonical.com is a gapps domain
[02:04] <davecheney> but the email portion is disabled
[02:05] <davecheney> to send/recieve as your canonical identity you would need a google identity on canonical.com
[02:05] <thumper> davecheney: OK, my question around this latest MP is that I have four different LGTM calls, but there is still a little contention around the init command AFAICS
[02:05] <davecheney> fuckem
[02:05] <davecheney> it's called source control
[02:05] <davecheney> you can always propose another change
[02:06] <thumper> heh
[02:07]  * thumper emails juju-dev with this email revalation
[02:08] <thumper> davecheney: so you reckon submit this alias branch for merging now?
[02:10] <davecheney> thumper: +1
[02:10] <thumper> kk
[02:10] <davecheney> what is the worse people can do ?
[02:10] <davecheney> they are miles away
[02:12] <thumper> well... from past experience, the worst they can do is revert the merge, and yell publicly on the mailing list at how shit you are
[02:12]  * thumper says mostly in jest
[02:12] <davecheney> you don't need to commit code for that
[02:12] <davecheney> :P
[02:13] <thumper> fucking conflicts...
[02:13]  * thumper fixes
[02:17]  * thumper goes to find his child
[03:32]  * thumper is confused
[03:35] <thumper> davecheney: ping
[03:45] <davecheney> ack
[03:45] <davecheney> thumper: ack
[03:45] <thumper> davecheney: nm, found that go build doesn't report all the errors
[03:46] <thumper> which is why  I was confused
[03:46] <thumper> go test found them
[03:46] <davecheney> ok
[03:46] <davecheney> offline for 5-10 mins
[03:46] <davecheney> rebooting + MOAR RAM!
[04:09] <davecheney> mmm, 8gb
[04:09] <davecheney> i had forgotten that I had donated some to my other machine a while back
[04:09] <davecheney> and only remembereed that when the said donated ram failed
[08:05] <TheMue> Morning
[08:21] <fwereade> TheMue, morning
[09:51] <fwereade> TheMue, can you think of any reason we have the --upload-tools flag on bootstrap/upgrade, instead of just an upload-tools command that puts stuff into the appropriate "public-bucket" (wtf? why not "tools-bucket"?) for the environment?
[09:52] <TheMue> fwereade: First, yeah, tools-bucket is more clear than public bucket. +1 on that. ;)
[09:53] <fwereade> TheMue, do you recall anything else that it's used for?
[09:53] <TheMue> fwereade: I think the basic idea has been to upload the tools "on the fly", but I don't know if it's really better than having an explicit command for it.
[09:54] <TheMue> fwereade: Can't remember the discussion which led to this decision.
[09:54] <fwereade> TheMue, I think it's way back before I even started on go
[09:55] <TheMue> fwereade: Yip, it's in there for a long time. Is our IRC archive searchable?
[09:55] <fwereade> TheMue, I think it's just cargo-culting from python tbh :(
[09:55] <fwereade> TheMue, (the public/private buckets, anyway)
[09:56] <TheMue> fwereade: Think so too. In the beginning we've ported much 1:1.
[09:56] <fwereade> TheMue, the tools stuff was done round about lisbon 1 but I wasn't closely involved... guess I should talk to niemeyer this pm, see if he has context I lack
[09:57] <TheMue> fwereade: I'm sure he can answer your question.
[09:58] <TheMue> fwereade: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/01/%23juju-dev.txt
[10:11] <frankban> hi fwereade: is there a bug for the default-series problem?
[10:12] <fwereade> frankban, not yet, I'm looking into it more closely just now
[10:12] <frankban> fwereade: ack thanks
[10:19] <fwereade> frankban, quick check: were you using --upload-tools? because that seems to work in quite a surprising way
[10:19] <frankban> fwereade: yes
[10:19] <fwereade> frankban, right, yeah, ISTM that upload-tools is crack, because it just forces everything to run with the tools that have been uploaded regardless
[10:20] <frankban> fwereade: so it takes the series I am running in the local machine?
[10:20] <fwereade> frankban, yeah, and it looks like it's totally infectious
[10:21] <frankban> fwereade: so, in theory, if I compile and run juju in a precise lxc it should work...
[10:21] <fwereade> frankban, I have a nasty suspicion that even without upload-tools it will force the series/arch of the bootstrap node onto everything it provisions, but I'm still verifying that
[10:23] <fwereade> frankban, hmm, yes, worth a try
[10:23] <frankban> fwereade: I will
[10:27] <fwereade> frankban, you will still be stuck with whatever you uploaded for absolutely everything you deploy, but at least you should be able to progress
[11:05] <mariusko> Hi, where should charm settings be saved?
[11:06] <fwereade> mariusko, I'd expect charm settings to be declared in the charm's config and set individually for each service running the charm
[11:06] <fwereade> mariusko, what sort of settings are you thinking of?
[11:19] <mariusko> fwereade: these are more locally cached ones
[11:20] <mariusko> actually, they are from the relation to mongodb, but they needs to be reused in config-changed hook
[11:21] <mariusko> I could not find an easy way to find it there without knowing the unit number
[11:22] <mariusko> When there is just one relation possible to mongodb, I would expect to be ablo te get those relation config options easily
[11:22] <fwereade> mariusko, there's a relation-list tool that will tell you what units are on the other side of the relation
[11:25] <mariusko> I.e. in this case I would expect to write the example "user=`relation-get -r db:42 user mysql/0`" as "user=`relation-get -r db user mysql`" if there is a one-to-many relationship from mysql
[11:26] <fwereade> mariusko, there's `relation-ids <name>` to tell you what relations exist; `relation-list <id>` to tell you what units are in each relation; and then you can `relation-get <id> <unit>`
[11:26] <fwereade> mariusko, except I've done the syntax completely wrong, sorry
[11:27] <mariusko> fwereade: ok, let me see if it can solve the problem. Is there a way to debug these commands interactively?
[11:27] <fwereade> mariusko, what version of juju are you using?
[11:27] <mariusko> They did not work in "juju debug-hooks"
[11:27] <fwereade> mariusko, ok, you're using python... and that would have been what I suggested next
[11:27] <mariusko> <IP_ADDRESS>+bzr616-0juju2 from the ppa
[11:28] <fwereade> mariusko, do you have a transcript of what didn't work by any chance?
[11:31] <mariusko> fwereade: "juju debug-hooks testapp4/0", then "relation-ids" gives "No JUJU_AGENT_SOCKET/-s option found"
[11:32] <fwereade> mariusko, does any hook tools work at all?
[11:32] <fwereade> mariusko, eg juju-log?
[11:32] <mariusko> nope, just when run automatically
[11:36] <fwereade> mariusko, huh, that rather sounds like debug-hooks is just plain broken
[11:36]  * fwereade tries to think who might be up to date with the python and awake at this hour
[11:39] <fwereade> mariusko, you might be able to iterate *reasonably* quickly if you keep upgrading your config-changed hook from a local repo
[11:42] <mariusko> fwereade: pushed the current code: https://code.launchpad.net/~mariusko/charms/precise/node-app/lp1123939_procfile_support
[11:43] <mariusko> Caching now happens in "/etc/juju_nodejs_app_${app_name}_mongodb.env"
[11:51] <fwereade> mariusko, I'm not quite sure how well that will work when there are multiple mongodbs
[11:51] <fwereade> mariusko, it seems like every unit of node_app will just store the most-recently-changed mongodb server?
[11:51] <mariusko> I think there only could be one associated with one node app
[11:53] <fwereade> mariusko, I'd better go take a look at the mongodb charm ;)
[11:53] <mariusko> Hmm japp, "app_name" is set by the user, so it could be other charm instances with the same app_name...
[11:53] <mariusko> Maybe service name should have been included
[11:55] <mariusko> That would also break some of the existing stuff in the charm too
[12:00] <mariusko> Maybe "$JUJU_SERVICE" should have been used instead
[12:00] <fwereade> mariusko, that should definitely be unique, yeah
[12:02] <fwereade> mariusko, and it does rather look as though it is just storing the most-recently-changed info
[12:03] <fwereade> mariusko, which I think might be a problem is the most-recently-changed on ever goes offline
[12:03] <mariusko> there are a lot of issues in the charm japp
[12:04]  * TheMue is at lunch
[12:04] <mariusko> it looks more like in a demo state now
[12:05] <mariusko> Anyway, there should just run one instance on each machine anyway
[12:05] <fwereade> mariusko, yeah, I'm not too bothered by the machine-sharing issue right now
[12:06] <fwereade> mariusko, I think it would be noticeably better if it maintained an up-to-date seed list (I'm pretty sure the node.js drivers can work with replicasets, right?)
[12:06] <mariusko> but if the mongodb dies, I hope that juju fires up a new one and then run the relation hook again to set the new info?
[12:07] <fwereade> mariusko, if you've got 3 in a replicaset and the last one to change goes down, I fear that the node apps will only try to connect to that one and fail ignominiously
[12:07] <mariusko> Seems it reads it: "replset=`relation-get replset`"
[12:07] <fwereade> mariusko, that's just a string
[12:07] <fwereade> mariusko, taken straing from the config
[12:08] <fwereade> mariusko, AFAICT, anyway
[12:08] <fwereade> s/straing/straight/
[12:08] <mariusko> haven't started playing with mongo yet, so I don't know much about it
[12:09] <mariusko> It is now set to ""myset"
[12:09] <fwereade> mariusko, I'm having some trouble spelunking through the mongodb charm -- it is certainly doing sane things in the replset relation hooks
[12:09] <mariusko> I thought the relationship was many nodeapp->one mongodb->many mongodb nodes
[12:10] <fwereade> mariusko, building up host:post,host:port lists... but I haven't figured out if/how they pass them on to database clients
[12:10] <mariusko> I have a replica-set relation from mongodb
[12:11] <fwereade> mariusko, that relation looks like it's being sensible -- ie it's causing the individual mongos to keep track of their replica sets, which is good
[12:12] <fwereade> mariusko, so if you successfully connect to any one, your driver should be able to figure out the current rs state and go from there
[12:13] <fwereade> mariusko, but if a node app only has one mongo address stored, and that address stops working for any reason, I don't think it'll be able to connect
[12:19] <mariusko> fwereade: firing up one more mongo unit now to see what happens
[12:19] <mariusko> But it was like that before my hacking too :)
[12:20] <mariusko> Japp, the mongodb IP changed to the last added mongodb node
[12:22] <fwereade> mariusko, sure, sorry, I think I've derailed you quite badly :(
[12:23] <mariusko> fwereade: japp, it seems like the client should list all nodes when connecting: "MongoClient.connect("mongodb://localhost:30000,localhost:30001/integration_test_?w=0&readPreference=secondary", function(err, db) {"
[12:23] <mariusko> At least more than one
[12:24] <fwereade> mariusko, re uniqueness, incidentally, it's more-or-less ok to store that sort of cached information inside the charm dir
[12:24] <fwereade> mariusko, the important bit is that if it's stored in the charm dir, it's for the consumption of the *charm* (which can then use it to write config files in /etc or wherever, in response to hooks)
[12:24] <mariusko> If all should be listed, it is maybe easier to try to do it properly and fetch all of them
[12:25] <fwereade> mariusko, if it's for the consumption of the service in any way -- eg an actual config.js, definitely don't store it in the charm dir
[12:26] <fwereade> mariusko, +1 to that, I think
[12:27] <fwereade> mariusko, no sure how to handle connections to multiple mongodb *services* though... that might be a case where the "limit" setting on the charm would be helpful
[12:27] <fwereade> mariusko, if only limit restrictions were actually implemented :/
[12:28] <mariusko> Hehe, juju looks a bit in alpha state at this time
[12:28] <mariusko> But seems to work in simple cases for test/development purposes
[12:28] <mariusko> Hope it will change for Raring
[12:29] <fwereade> mariusko, hopefully we'll have something solid for you... but I'm not sure limit will make the cut
[12:29] <fwereade> mariusko, on the plus side, I think that it's reasonably clear that the tools to get node_app doing the right thing are in place
[12:30] <fwereade> mariusko, it takes a little while to get used to charm-writing though
[12:30] <mariusko> fwereade: tried to describe the problem here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/node-app/+bug/1131188
[12:30] <_mup_> Bug #1131188: Does not support multiple mongodb units <node-app (Juju Charms Collection):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1131188 >
[12:30] <fwereade> mariusko, thank yu, that's extremely helpful
[12:31] <mariusko> Japp, Heroku etc. seems to have a more complete service just now, but AFAIK it does not allow hacking on it like Juju :)
[12:32] <fwereade> mariusko, I don't want to bash those at all, they do what they do just as they should, but we're not trying to do quite the same things :)
[12:37] <mariusko> Sure, those services also have their own proprietary tools so it is harder to change cloud providers. Sent a merge requst
[12:39]  * dimitern lunch
[12:43] <bac> hi jam, thanks for the review.
[12:43] <bac> i don't understand your comment in the README about --upload-tools
[12:44] <bac> even if you use --upload-tools, i think it will complain if it sees a juju-origin
[12:44] <jam> bac: for juju-core you can do 'juju bootstrap --upload-tools' which is how you get the 'current' version of tools available for things to use.
[12:44] <jam> With Python juju
[12:44] <bac> so for people coming from pyjuju with a pre-existing environments.yaml they will see that complaint
[12:44] <jam> you had to specify a source
[12:44] <jam> like ppa
[12:45] <jam> bac: sure, my point is, if someone was *using* a custom source for juju (like juju-origin: ppa) they most likely want "juju bootstrap --upload-tools".
[12:45] <bac> jam: gotcha
[12:45] <jam> I was mentioning it as "do we want to include a side reference so people can figure out where to get similar functionality"
[12:45] <jam> though I imagine people tend to have that line because it was the magic voodoo that made things work
[12:46] <jam> (because precise has an old version of juju that is incompatible with lots of python-juju clients)
[12:46] <bac> jam: with the two positive reviews am i free to make the changes requested and then submit or do i need to re-propose?
[12:47] <bac> for this one i will definitely re-propose.  just asking about the expectation for this project.
[12:47] <jam> If you have 2 LGTM, then submit (though you should respond to make it clear that you've done the requested actions, etc.)
[12:58] <fwereade> bac, generally we take the string "LGTM" to be the indicator of sufficient positivity, so I'm not quite sure dfc's counts
[12:59] <fwereade> bac, I think his "weird API" comment has some legs... not because the API is weird, IMO it's a perfectly sensible one, but I'm not sure how nicely it will play with rog's RPC magic
[13:01] <fwereade> bac, jam: I'm also a little bit reluctant to recommend --upload-tools too loudly, but I have not yet figured out whether it breaks juju *enough* worse than it already is re series/arch selection
[13:02] <fwereade> bac, jam: and I am afraid I've just been called to lunch
[13:41] <fwereade> niemeyer, heyhey
[13:42] <niemeyer> fwereade: Heya
[13:43] <fwereade> niemeyer, I liked your ubuntu finder sketch :)
[13:43] <dimitern> niemeyer: hey
[13:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: Neat :)
[13:44] <niemeyer> dimitern: Heya
[13:49] <bac> dimitern: hi, thanks for the review.  i removed the 'cobzr branch -b' part b/c i found it did not work.  does it work for you?
[13:49] <dimitern> bac: yw, actually I never used it like that, I always use bzr checkout -b branchname (that's with cobzr)
[13:50] <dimitern> that's maybe worth mentioning (if it's not there already)
[13:50] <bac> dimitern: i'll try that
[14:57] <TheMue> re
[14:57] <TheMue> Argh, my system crashed. *grmpf*
[16:13] <dimitern> fwereade: ping
[16:15] <fwereade> dimitern, pong
[16:15] <dimitern> fwereade: i couldn't find anywhere Service.SetCharm is used, except for a few tests
[16:15] <fwereade> dimitern, it will be used by upgrade-charm
[16:16] <dimitern> fwereade: but a lot of the things it has to do are uniter operations
[16:16] <fwereade> dimitern, its current total lack of safety is the primary reason for the lack of upgrade-charm
[16:16] <fwereade> dimitern, sorry, restate?
[16:16] <dimitern> fwereade: e.g. downloading a charm to see what it implements, its config, etc.
[16:16] <fwereade> dimitern, the uniter should already handle those changes once they've happened
[16:17] <fwereade> dimitern, the upgrade-charm story is all about making sure those changes are sane
[16:17] <fwereade> dimitern, so that the uniter will itself respond sanely ;)
[16:17] <dimitern> fwereade: so all the things you described about changes to Service.SetCharm (well, most of them) will in fact happen in the uniter, before calling it
[16:18] <fwereade> dimitern, I don;t think so -- can I talk properly in a mo?
[16:18] <dimitern> fwereade: what, hangout?
[16:23] <mgz> dimitern: if you're not hanging out yet, can you hop on mumble quickly and tell me if my settings on this box are working okay?
[16:23] <dimitern> mgz: sure
[17:05] <fwereade> dimitern, ping
[17:05] <fwereade> dimitern, sorry
[17:05] <dimitern> fwereade: pong
[17:05] <fwereade> dimitern, quick hangout?
[17:05] <dimitern> fwereade: ok, i'll send you a link
[17:05] <fwereade> dimitern, with you in 2 mins
[18:31] <jtv> Is anyone else having trouble running "make check" in pyjuju?
[18:31] <jtv> And "make review" etc?
[18:34] <dimitern> fwereade: it seems there's no clean way to stop a watcher without a panic :(
[18:35] <dimitern> fwereade: am I to expect that? and check for a panic in the tests?
[18:37] <fwereade> dimitern, hmm, sorry good point: that's a line saying watcher.MustErr(relationsw) or something?
[18:38] <fwereade> dimitern, change that bit
[18:38] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, that one
[18:38] <fwereade> dimitern, that's checking that no sneaky git stops the watcher underneath us; now that we're deliberately stopping it you should be fine with an err or nil
[18:39] <fwereade> dimitern, maybe only start the new watcher once the old one has stopped? that might actually be neatest
[18:39] <dimitern> fwereade: :)
[18:39] <fwereade> dimitern, to be clearer: if there's an err, return it; if it's nil, start a new one
[18:39] <dimitern> fwereade: hmm
[18:40] <fwereade> dimitern, that could probably use a comment though, it's a bit subtle, and don't forget to fix up the defer stop (or defer a new one)
[18:40] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, ok
[18:40] <dimitern> fwereade: i was thinking exactly of the defer
[18:41] <dimitern> fwereade: so it'll call MustErr instead
[18:41] <fwereade> dimitern, hmm, no, I don;t think you want MustErr at all for relationsw
[18:41] <fwereade> dimitern, I think you probably want a defer that stops the current value of relationsw, rather than snapshotting it
[18:42] <dimitern> fwereade: ISTM the only place MustErr is called on relationsw is in the <-Changes() case
[18:42] <fwereade> defer func() {relationsw.Stop()}() rather than defer relationsw.Stop()
[18:42] <dimitern> fwereade: ah! got you - yeah, it'll be different
[18:43] <dimitern> fwereade: so filter.go: 223 that if should be gone
[18:43] <dimitern> oops 213
[18:44] <dimitern> no
[18:44] <dimitern> sorry, finally 221 :)
[18:44] <dimitern> on the relationsw
[18:46] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, around 222: if err == nil { relationsw = service.WatchRelations() } else { return err }
[18:47] <fwereade> dimitern, something like that
[18:47] <dimitern> fwereade: won't that screw up the defer above?
[18:48] <dimitern> fwereade: ah, no - because we'll be out already!
[18:48] <fwereade> dimitern, depends if relationsw is naked or only evaluated inside the deferred func
[18:48] <fwereade> dimitern, if it's `defer relationsw.Stop()` then it's *that* specific relationsw that will be stopped; if it's inside a func it'll take the value of relationsw at the time it's finally executed
[18:50] <dimitern> fwereade: no, I mean I though I saw a inf loop there, but then I realized <-Changes() and the restarting won't happen again while in the defer
[18:50] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, exactly, once we're in the defer we can't go back :)
[18:51] <dimitern> fwereade: neat :)
[18:51] <dimitern> fwereade: and I can get the err from relationsw.Err(), right?
[18:55] <dimitern> fwereade: right, so to test the watcher was restarted, I should stick a change just before the upgrade is fired
[18:55] <dimitern> fwereade: or you don't think this needs testing?
[18:59] <dimitern> fwereade: sorry it seems you dropped off
[19:09] <jtv> Could anyone give me a review for these Makefile changes?  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/juju/makefile-fixups/+merge/149907
[21:01] <bac> .
[21:01] <bac> fwereade: when you have a moment could you do a second pass on my branch?  if you think it is ok do i need to wait for dfc to re-review too?
[21:02] <bac> fwereade:  https://codereview.appspot.com/7401043/
[21:04] <fwereade> bac, sure, just a mo
[21:07] <fwereade> bac, LGTM, couple of trivial typos
[21:07] <fwereade> bac, I think you're fine re dfc, you did address his point
[21:12] <bac> fwereade: thanks
[21:26] <_thumper_> mramm: ok, at home now, hangout?
[21:26] <_thumper_> mramm: needs to be personal one though
[21:26] <_thumper_> as the laptop is upgrading :)
[21:26] <mramm> ok
[21:26] <mramm> shoot me an invite?
[21:27] <_thumper_> I'll try...
[21:28] <BradCrittenden> fwereade: i have made the final changes.  i cannot submit the branch b/c i'm not in ~gophers.  can you merge it for me?
[21:28] <_thumper_> mramm: the ipad app won't let me add you :(
[21:28] <_thumper_> don't know why
[21:28] <mramm> ok
[21:28] <mramm> let me try inviting you
[21:28] <_thumper_> ok
[21:29]  * _thumper_ tries to recall which image is the personal one
[21:29] <mramm> invite sent
[21:29] <_thumper_> which did you use?
[21:29] <_thumper_> I don't see it
[21:29] <mramm> though perhaps to your canonical acount
[21:29] <_thumper_> perhaps invite the other me :)
[21:30] <mramm> looking for your personal...
[21:30] <gary_poster> Hey mramm, could you please add ~juju-gui to ~gophers so we can propose?
[21:31] <gary_poster> mramm alternatvely I can give you individual people, as you wish
[21:39] <mramm> _thumper_: trying again, seems that I lost google hangout
[21:39] <_thumper_> ack
[21:40] <_thumper_> mramm: you disappeared again
[21:40] <mramm> hmm
[21:40] <mramm> google hangout is not my friend today
[21:43] <mramm> trying again with another browser
[21:45] <mramm> yea, nothing working, trying a reboot
[21:45] <mramm> be back in 2 min
[21:51] <thumper> I home mramm isn
[21:51] <thumper> isn't having shell issues too
[21:51] <thumper> s/home/hope
[21:52] <thumper> I have a horrible feeling that this day is going to be a write-off
[21:52] <thumper> I hope not...
[22:01] <hatch> arrrrgggggggg
[22:02]  * hatch smashes things in hope that it solves his problem
[22:02] <thumper> hi mramm
[22:02] <thumper> mramm: long two minutes :)
[22:02] <mramm> yea
[22:02] <mramm> computer hung on reboot
[22:02] <mramm> :(
[22:03] <thumper> :(
[22:03] <thumper> but you got a shell ok?
[22:05] <mramm> eventually
[22:06] <mramm> not sure why but it just took forever to get there
[22:06] <mramm> but then all is good
[22:07] <thumper> mramm: are you going to try a hangout again?
[22:12] <mramm> thumper: I'm in a hangout with dave at the moment
[22:15] <thumper> mramm: ok
[23:17] <mramm> thumper: you still around?
[23:24] <davecheney> thumper: when you get done with mramm, can we have a chat ?