[00:24] <seb128> TheMuso, thanks, I acked the template and I'm going to email translators, it's in launchpad now, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/a11y-profile-manager
[00:26] <seb128> TheMuso, I'm unsure errors like "The GSettings schema %s in the gsettings file is not a relocatable schema." should be translatable
[00:26] <seb128> usually log errors are not
[00:26] <seb128> it's technical enough that it's not useful to users
[00:47] <TheMuso> seb128: Fair enough.
[00:47] <seb128> TheMuso, not important but it's going to be nicer to translators
[00:47] <TheMuso> seb128: I'd argue though that since the profile system was designed such that people could create their own profiles, its useful for them to know such errors when building and testing tieir profiles with the comand-line utility.
[00:48] <seb128> those users can probably read english
[00:48] <TheMuso> But maybe I should add functionality to help them test easier.
[00:48] <TheMuso> True, and as I said, I could probably add a test argument for the command-line tool that can explain such things which can be translated.
[01:13] <seb128> TheMuso, yeah, in any case translators can pick it up now and just decide on priorities to translate
[01:14] <TheMuso> Yep.
[01:36] <duflu> seb128: Welcome to the morning... (?)
[01:43] <Trevinho> seb128: still awake? :)
[01:43] <Trevinho> seb128: we should open a desktop team night club :-D
[01:43] <duflu> Gawd. I should have expected you too. Hi Trevinho!
[01:44] <Trevinho> duflu: naaaa... this is not the time for sleeping :-D
[01:44] <Trevinho> duflu: hey, btw!
[01:44] <Trevinho> duflu: how is it?
[01:44] <duflu> Trevinho: It's sunny here *hint*
[01:45] <Trevinho> nice :)
[01:45] <duflu> Trevinho: Long time no see. How are you?
[01:45] <Trevinho> duflu: that's the same I meant for you... how  is it [life] :-D,
[01:46] <Trevinho> duflu: well, not too bad... Many changes, lots of things to do. But allright
[01:46] <duflu> Trevinho: Hmm, same
[01:46] <Trevinho> duflu: and yeah... I hope tere will be another UES sprint somewhere "soon".
[01:46] <duflu> Yeah
[01:47] <duflu> Hey I had a funny realisation this week -- Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04 desktops side by side look identical. Other than wallpaper, things seem to have changed more slowly now
[01:48] <duflu> Although Unity8 continues to make strides
[01:49] <Trevinho> duflu: well, I know.,.. I would have loved to change more the look, but... It wasn't something planned , nor we had design resources for that.
[01:49] <Trevinho> duflu: also the big change will be u8. then...
[01:49] <Trevinho> duflu: however it's a lot more themeable now, so 3rd party themers could jump in and fix it
[01:49] <duflu> Trevinho: Yeah, not like days gone by when every 6 months was a new visual theme
[01:49]  * Trevinho remembers that has still to do that post and update the wiki for this
[01:50] <Trevinho> seb128: (i guess i'll get a reply tomorrow) should I do a new landing for this stuff, or can I reuse the other silo?
[01:51] <duflu> Trevinho: Random announcement: I did eventually fix your mplayer on Mir rendering bug. Unfortunately I don't think the SDL 1.2 changes ever hit a distro yet
[01:52] <Trevinho> duflu: oh, good stuff! I hope I'll have some more time to play with that soon
[01:52] <duflu> Unfortunately Unity8 has the same bug (has its own separate compositor). Still needs to be fixed separately
[03:53] <pitti> Good morning
[03:53] <pitti> seb128: yes, I'll request a full langpack export now and will build the packs tomorrow
[03:53] <pitti> that's what Adam, William, and me agreed on
[05:02] <hikiko> hello
[05:10] <seb128> pitti, hey! ok, no worry, we are late with that change anyway so it might be a SRU/for .1
[05:10] <seb128> hey hikiko
[05:11] <seb128> Trevinho, what do you want to land? I guess as long as things didn't get merged back you can iterate over the same silo
[05:27] <Trevinho> seb128: the unity crash fixes..
[05:27] <Trevinho> I guess I need to force the missing revision in changelog though
[05:37] <seb128> Trevinho, oh, you already have a fix for that good ;-)
[05:37] <seb128> Trevinho, unsure but I guess #ubuntu-ci-eng can advice on the right checkboxes to click
[06:03] <hikiko> hey seb128 :)
[06:03] <hikiko> and Trevinho
[06:03] <hikiko> (with some lag)
[08:04] <Laney> meow
[08:07] <pitti> oh, that cat again
[08:07]  * pitti gets the paper and waves with it Laneywards
[08:07]  * Laney pounces
[08:07] <Laney> hey pitti
[08:08] <Laney> how's it going?
[08:09] <pitti> Laney: feeling releas-y!
[08:09] <Laney> \o|
[08:10] <pitti> got up a bit too early, but that's ok; doing some handholding for glibc+KDE+python-setuptools+openssl madness :)
[08:10] <pitti> plus, only half-day today, we'll go to Ulm in the afternoon
[08:10] <pitti> for seeing the city (we've never been there despite it's only 45 train minutes away), and a great concert this evening
[08:14] <Laney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulm#/media/File:Ulm_public_library_above.jpg <- this looks exciting!
[09:25] <Laney> http://www.theguardian.com/weather/2016/apr/14/czech-republic-czechia-new-name
[09:25] <Laney> guess we're going to Czechia nwo
[09:27] <hikiko> Trevinho, do you know if unity has a mechanism to know when other plugins call damageScreen?
[09:37]  * Laney spanks firefox
[09:37] <Laney> learn to open text files
[09:54] <larsu> Laney: probably a wrong Content-Type from the server, no?
[09:55] <larsu> happy Friday!
[09:55] <Laney> larsu: nein
[09:55] <Laney> it's more for files that are bigger than 300kb-ish
[09:55] <Laney> firefox just shits itself for like 10 minutes
[09:56] <larsu> really? That's stupid, considering most web sites' size
[09:56] <Laney> it only happens for text files
[09:56] <Laney> anyway, should have known that by now
[09:56] <Laney> happy friday!
[09:57] <pitti> I sometimes open multi-MB test log.gz files; takes a few seconds indeed (during which ffox is completely unresponsive), but then it seems to settle
[09:58] <Laney> Might be some extension I have is making it worse
[11:07] <davmor2> Laney: why would I be getting dpkg: warning: version '/etc/lsb-release' has bad syntax: version number does not start with a digit on a full-upgrade?
[11:07] <Trevinho> hikiko|ln: mh, well, unityscreen already extends CompositeScreenInterface, but you can't override damageScreen, but damnageREgion only
[11:08] <hikiko> no no, I don't want to do this
[11:08] <hikiko> I was just wondering
[11:08] <Trevinho> hikiko: damageScreen howevr is just a damageRegion call with screen size
[11:08] <Trevinho> so, you could figure it out
[11:09] <hikiko> if there's some sort of mechanism to understand that damageScreen or damageRegion has been called by another plugin
[11:09] <Trevinho> hikiko: easier... if damageRegion has damageMask COMPOSITE_SCREEN_DAMAGE_ALL_MASK
[11:09] <hikiko> :D
[11:10] <Trevinho> hikiko: if you get that called, then it has been called by a plugin (or core), but you can't know who has called it
[11:10] <hikiko> mmm
[11:10] <hikiko> basically my initial problem is this:
[11:10] <Trevinho> hikiko: you could hack it to force to be the only plugin that gets the call, and eventually call single plugins by hand... But not reallly something straight forward
[11:12] <hikiko> I want to damage nux parts when: a) there's zoom or translation (easy-done) b) when ezoom damages screen (because currently nux components aren't redrawn)
[11:12] <hikiko> nux regions*
[11:12] <Laney> davmor2: exactly what gives you that warning?
[11:12] <Trevinho> hikiko: well, in theory there was already in place for something like that..
[11:13] <Trevinho> hikiko: isn't UnityScreen::compizDamageNux doing what you want?
[11:13] <hikiko> i thought so, but when I modified it I only fixed some regions
[11:13] <hikiko> so I think that forces the damage
[11:13] <hikiko> but not the redraw
[11:14] <Trevinho> Mh, I see
[11:14] <hikiko> basically: I transformed the nux damaged regions
[11:14] <hikiko> and they look ok
[11:14] <hikiko> but sometimes
[11:15] <hikiko> they are not updated
[11:15] <hikiko> which means that nux is not notified
[11:15] <hikiko> to redraw when compiz redraws the windows
[11:15] <davmor2> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15847692/ looks like basefiles maybe which I assume includes lsb-release
[11:19] <Laney> davmor2: ooh
[11:19] <davmor2> Laney: just threw me when I saw it
[11:20] <Laney> I suspect it does no harm
[11:20] <Laney> but it's a bug in the postinst
[11:21] <Trevinho> andyrock: ouch I thought the libwnck fix for "_" was already in xenial... Whil it's not the case..
[11:23]  * Trevinho oh... There's a new t460p to unbox here...
[11:23] <Laney> didrocks: hey, ^^^^^ has your fingerprints on it I think ;-)
[11:23] <andyrock> Trevinho: i asked seb to sponsor it
[11:24] <Trevinho> Laney: oh, yeh... I guess we need to work to get that being useful in ubuntu
[11:24] <Trevinho> didrocks: do you have that too?
[11:24] <Trevinho> (the fp reader)
[11:24] <Trevinho> andyrock: ah, ok...
[11:24] <hikiko> i do :)
[11:24] <hikiko> but I didn't set it up yet... :ppp
[11:25] <Laney> Trevinho: "that"
[11:25] <Laney> ?
[11:25] <Trevinho> hikiko: you've the sliding version (the old one) or a the new one (just touch)
[11:25] <Laney> think we're talking about multiple thigns here
[11:25] <hikiko> probably :)
[11:25] <Trevinho> :)
[11:26] <Trevinho> so to mix more... andyrock can you add a proper patch heder to your debdiff linking the bug and the upstream commit or should I?
[11:29] <Laney> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15848002/ confirm/deny? :)
[11:35] <Trevinho> Laney: what was the command to fix ubuntu maintainer (whe nyou get errors about ubuntu changes but maintainer with no ubuntu address)?
[11:35] <Laney> drumroll
[11:36] <Laney> update-maintainer
[11:36] <Trevinho> ok easy.. :-D
[11:36] <Trevinho> But my  memory lacks
[11:36] <Laney> aren't you the maintainer of wnck?
[11:36] <Trevinho> Laney: upstream
[11:36] <Trevinho> Laney: but I'm doing the debdiff on andrea's behalf...
[11:36] <Laney> and you're adding a downstream patch?!?!?!?!
[11:37] <Trevinho> Laney: I've already added it upstream, but... that should involve me making a new libnwk release I guess
[11:37] <Trevinho> so was just about repacking andyrock's patch to include dep-3 for now
[11:37] <Trevinho> Laney: but if you prefer me to release liwnck, then that will be
[11:38] <Laney> I usually just git format-patch those
[11:38] <Trevinho> Laney: ah, right... but well, mentioning the bug and stuff...
[11:38] <Laney> yeah
[11:39] <Laney> anyways, I can probably do that faster than you
[11:39] <Laney> want to let me handle it? :P
[11:39]  * Laney will upload to debian + sync
[11:39] <Trevinho> Laney: I already have the debdiff, but as you want
[11:39] <Laney> you can give me the headers, will copy those
[11:40] <Trevinho> Laney: /tmp/.mir/libwnck3-fix-mnemonics.patch
[11:40] <Trevinho> ah,errr
[11:40] <Laney> dude
[11:40] <Trevinho> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15848123/
[11:40] <Laney> that is a weird working directory
[11:40] <Trevinho> Laney: can't you read my temp^?
[11:40] <Laney> in /tmp in a hidden directory in a hidden directory named "mir"
[11:40] <Laney> WEIRD
[11:40]  * Trevinho always works in /tmp...  Thus the name :-D
[11:41] <Trevinho> I've binding also for other human places such as ~/Dev, but my mind won't never change this thing of working in /tmp :)
[11:43] <Laney> I have ~/temp for temp stuff
[11:43] <Laney> I got a habit of working properly in it too
[11:43] <Trevinho> that's more sane than really using /tmp indeed
[11:43] <Laney> then a couple of times I did rm -rf ~/temp/* and lost work
[11:43] <Trevinho> I also have that proably
[11:43] <Laney> which was a good way to make myself stop using it
[11:44] <Laney> now I have a policy of just rm-ing it at random intervals
[11:44] <Trevinho> Laney: the problem with /tmp is that just I can't reboot safely. OR if something hangs and I've force-reset I need to go in recovery-mode, remount,rw / and save data :-)
[11:44] <Trevinho> yeah, indeed
[11:47] <andyrock> Trevinho: sorry i m not at home right now
[11:47] <andyrock> I ve a lab to present
[11:47] <andyrock> 🤔
[11:48] <Trevinho> andyrock: no problem... We'll handle that
[12:00] <didrocks> Laney: +1
[12:01] <Laney> thanks didrocks
[12:01] <Laney> how are you? :)
[12:01] <Laney> been a while!
[12:01] <didrocks> Laney: really busy, working almost around the clock (just back from holidays yesterdays)
[12:01] <didrocks> I guess it's going to be the case until end of month at least
[12:01] <didrocks> but well…
[12:01] <didrocks> and you? :)
[12:03] <Laney> :S
[12:03] <Laney> bit stressful leadup to xenial
[13:52] <tedg> I thought there was a form that needed to be filled out for requesting a new package in the archive.
[13:52] <tedg> But I can't seem to find it :-/
[14:07] <Laney> no such thing
[14:07] <tedg> Ah, okay, I must be confusing a MIR then.
[14:07] <tedg> Thanks Laney
[14:07] <Laney> np!
[14:26] <bregma> Laney, I'm looking for some utility that would scan package archives directly looking for a package like apt-cache does, but without the cache (ie. running on a readonly filesystem) -- do you know of anything like that?
[14:26] <Laney> hi bregma
[14:27] <Laney> can you give me an example of an operation you'd want to do?
[14:28] <tedg> bregma: http://appstream.ubuntu.com/
[14:29] <bregma> Laney, basically I want to do "apt-cache search" bypassing the on-disk apt cache because it may be out of date or non-existent
[14:30] <bregma> think of looking for a .deb in an arbitrary arcive from the phone
[14:30] <bregma> just, you know, for example
[14:31] <Laney> ermmmmm
[14:31] <Laney> aren't you going to need apt to install the thing in the end?
[14:32] <bregma> Laney, yes, but in a container that will be created for the purpose
[14:33] <bregma> so, installing can use apt, but searching can't
[14:33] <tedg> bregma: I think for Xenail and beyond downloading the yml.gz for the appstream data would be best. You can update that outside the container. https://wiki.debian.org/AppStream
[14:33] <tedg> Xenial
[14:33] <Laney> That doesn't contain every package
[14:33] <Laney> so depends what you want to do
[14:34] <tedg> It contains the majority of desktop apps, no?
[14:34] <bregma> tedg, appstream is great but doesn't necessarily cover 3rd-party archives
[14:35] <tedg> bregma: Sure, but any other format will only give you packages, not "desktop apps" which is probably what you want?
[14:35] <tedg> bregma: If you use the apt libraries they can work on local copies of the package repo. That's what snapcraft does for instance to use non-local repos.
[14:36] <bregma> I suppose we could take the stance "install a bash shell then use Ubuntu command-line tools to install what your want"
[14:36] <bregma> works for Microsoft
[14:36] <bregma> maybe I'll play with the apt libraries, see if they do what I need
[14:37] <Laney> bregma: How does this work?
[14:37] <Laney> As a user
[14:37] <Laney> like, do I define the repositories in configuration somehow?
[14:39] <davmor2> cyphermox, pitti: bug 1570901 I've assigned you both pitti if there is any chance you could jump on with cyphermox that would be awesome we kinda need it right for monday, many thanks
[14:39] <ubot5`> bug 1570901 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Cd menu not booting to ubiquity try/install menu but always to live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570901
[14:40] <Laney> bregma: does https://paste.ubuntu.com/15850131/ interest you?
[14:40] <Laney> otherwise, I think you can set basically all of apt's directories via configuration
[14:40] <Laney> so you can say "download to this place in my home directory" and then use apt-cache on that
[14:40] <Laney> there's a tool called 'chdist' which does this
[14:42] <bregma> Laney, yeh, that sort of approach was my first thought and final fallback, but I was hoping to avoid work if someone else has already done the hard bits
[14:43]  * bregma avoids work, it's too hard
[14:43] <attente> Laney: hey, is it at all possible to do another g-s release at this point? i've fixed a couple of bugs with the update all and the appstream cache refresh
[14:46] <Laney> bregma: https://paste.ubuntu.com/15850261/
[14:47] <Laney> yo attente
[14:47] <Laney> yes, but I'm going to leave in a very short time to get a train - maybe seb128 can help?
[14:47] <bregma> Laney, I think I can work with that, thanks
[14:47] <attente> Laney: sure, no worries
[14:47] <seb128> Laney, attente, I can try maybe to sneak that in today but busy at the sprint
[14:48] <Laney> oh hey seb128!
[14:48] <seb128> need to figure out how to deal with that package as well
[14:48] <Laney> bregma: beware, it's perl
[14:48] <seb128> I've an idea how to work but I don't have my GNOME git configured, etc on that laptop*
[14:48] <Laney> seb128: for an update attente would run make distcheck and give you a new orig.tar.xz
[14:48] <seb128> k
[14:48] <Laney> so you would just merge that as normal
[14:49] <seb128> cool
[14:49] <seb128> attente, give me the link to the tarball or a package update to sponsor and I can sponsor
[14:49] <Laney> thanks
[14:49] <attente> seb128: sure, thanks
[14:50] <Laney> I'll take my laptop with me so can poke the queue later
[14:50] <seb128> Laney, have a good w.e!
[14:50] <Laney> Trevinho: any news on the update?
[14:50] <seb128> thanks
[14:50] <seb128> Laney, Trevinho, what's the output of the hud discussion?
[14:50] <Laney> I posted to the bug
[14:50] <Laney> he's removed the feature changes and will discuss those separately
[14:51]  * seb128 sings the "we are going to get overruled next week"
[14:52] <seb128> oh, no willcooke there
[14:53] <Laney> Better for it to be explicit rather than cloak and dagger stuff
[14:53] <seb128> well in any case let's undone it and be ready to redo on monday
[14:53] <seb128> it's going to be explicit
[14:53] <Laney> fine
[14:53] <Laney> so be it
[14:53] <seb128> so yeah, we can undo/redo it's fine, just a bit more work
[14:53] <Laney> He's already doing the new uploads
[14:54] <seb128> k
[14:54] <seb128> one cycle without those late churn wouldn't be a normal ubuntu cycle :p
[14:55] <Laney> and it's going to let me pin the packages to the versions with bugfixes but before this poor change lands :)
[14:55] <seb128> I don't understand the issue
[14:55] <seb128> it's a configurable keybinding no?
[14:55] <seb128> e.g you can change the config, no need to pin a code version?
[14:55] <Laney> It's changed the compiz one
[14:56] <Laney> Is *that* one configurable?
[14:56] <seb128> I though it was
[14:56] <seb128> but maybe I'm wrong
[14:56] <seb128> we are speaking about alt-space right?
[14:56] <Laney> I've never considered configuring something like that to be honest
[14:57] <seb128> I never used that keybinding to be honest
[14:57] <Laney> luckily
[14:57] <Laney> lucky*
[14:57] <Laney> then your workflow isn't being changed
[14:57] <seb128> yeah
[14:57] <seb128> you must be angry at GTK CSD
[14:57] <seb128> they broke it for you as well :p
[14:57] <seb128> no wm menu there
[14:57] <Laney> alt-space works there
[14:58] <seb128> interesting
[14:58] <seb128> so no mouse way to get that menu
[14:58] <seb128> but a keyboard one
[14:58] <Laney> I hate gnome-shell because they broke mnemonics on that menu though
[14:58]  * Laney would try to fix that if he ever used shell
[14:58] <seb128> it seems weird
[14:58] <seb128> I would have expected alt-space to do the same thing that right click on the decoration
[14:59] <Laney> It's probably handled by the window manager always
[14:59] <Laney> unlike the decorations these days
[14:59] <seb128> right, feels like inconsistant UI/workflow
[14:59] <seb128> I wonder if they consider it as a bug
[14:59] <Laney> haha
[15:02] <Laney> Trevinho: don't know where you've gone, but I'm off now and might not be back for a bit... so please find someone else on the release team to remove my blocks
[15:02] <seb128> Laney, enjoy your w.e!
[15:02] <Laney> you too
[15:02] <Laney> safe travels back!
[15:03]  * Laney will send you baby pics ;-)
[15:04] <seb128> thanks
[15:04] <seb128> hehe
[15:07] <Trevinho> Laney: oh, I'm here :)
[15:07] <Trevinho> Laney: just ignoring notifications :/
[15:29] <attente> seb128: do you want me to do the packaging too or just upload the tarball?
[15:29] <seb128> attente, as you prefer
[15:30] <attente> seb128: ok, i'll try it packaging it first
[15:30] <seb128> it should be a simple matter of adding a changelog entry with the correct version
[15:30] <seb128> thanks
[15:31] <seb128> you know better what is in the update so should be easier for you to write the changelog ;)
[15:35] <seb128> Trevinho, how come you relanded packages that didn't have change like hud?
[15:35] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/253950388/hud_14.10+16.04.20160412.1-0ubuntu1_14.10+16.04.20160415-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[15:39] <Trevinho> seb128: changelog should have changed
[15:39] <seb128> it did
[15:39] <seb128> but I'm unsure the release team is going to see the point of the upload
[15:39] <Trevinho> seb128: well, I wanted to update the changelog bug
[15:39] <seb128> ah ok
[15:39] <seb128> I didn't notice that the bug changed
[15:39] <Trevinho> seb128: also, those packages haven't really been released
[15:39] <seb128> sorry ;-)
[15:39] <Trevinho> just in proposed
[15:40] <Trevinho> no problem
[15:41] <Trevinho> seb128: yeah, if i wouldn't have missed the Laney call would have been easier, as he knew :/
[15:41] <seb128> don't worry we are going to get there ;-)
[16:05] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey, do you know where one can find a ppd for a Canon pixma 3650 printer on trusty?
[16:40] <attente> seb128: can you take this when have a moment? https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software
[16:41] <seb128> attente, looking
[16:44] <seb128> tedg, charles_, could you have a look to bug #1512002? it's a bit of an annoying one and would be nice to see fixed, I hit it regularly but never had slots to debug but some users looked at it, would be nice to see if what they suggest make sense
[16:44] <ubot5`> bug 1512002 in accountsservice "Annoying dialog "Authentication is required to change your own user data"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512002
[16:45] <seb128> desrt, ^ you maybe could have a look as well? it seems to have to do with the accountsservice user storage
[16:46] <desrt> hmmmmm
[16:50] <desrt> i have a theory
[16:50] <desrt> if something in the session is trying to sync up a property when the session is locked then probably the "is current user logged in?" check at the polkit level is failing
[16:52] <desrt> ah.  looks like others reached that same conclusion as well
[16:55] <seb128> right
[16:55] <desrt> but the real issue is to identify the 'guilty' party for doing the request in the first place
[16:56] <seb128> is it wrong/buggy to do such requests while the session is locked?
[16:56] <seb128> the bug mentions some
[16:56] <seb128> like we update unread messages counts so the greeter can display that your user has messages
[16:56] <desrt> indicator-messages, you mean?
[16:56] <seb128> yes
[16:57] <desrt> hmm
[16:57] <seb128> kenvandine, can you maybe review the patch on bug #1235472? I think you are the one who know that package best
[16:57] <ubot5`> bug 1235472 in empathy (Ubuntu) "New messages do not show" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235472
[16:57] <desrt> funny what things end up being used for
[16:59] <seb128> yeah...
[17:00] <desrt> so like... vendorpatch accountsservice while we wait for the patch to go upstream?
[17:00] <desrt> it seems that the issue is fairly well understood, and the easiest solution is somewhat obvious
[17:12] <seb128> desrt, just changing the permission as suggested on the bug?
[17:12] <desrt> aside from creating a new service to deal with this sort of thing, i can't imagine anything more appropriate
[17:13] <desrt> and to be honest, i think that something running on behalf of the user should probably have the right to change the user's stuff anyway... the fact that this was tied to "...and the user is logged in right now" was probably not particularly intentional
[17:18] <seb128> desrt, k, I agree, thanks for commenting I wanted a second opinion
[17:39] <seb128> attente, sponsored, could you also mp the change against the packaging vcs (lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-software/ubuntu)?
[17:40] <attente> sure, thanks seb128!
[17:41] <seb128> attente, thanks
[17:41] <seb128> attente, Laney, did any of you tried to look at bug #1564621?
[17:41] <ubot5`> bug 1564621 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Version unkown of not-installed applications, it appears for installed ones" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1564621
[17:42] <seb128> it's probably one we want to SRU
[17:43] <attente> seb128: i didn't see that one, but can see if it's an easy fix
[17:43] <seb128> attente, thanks
[18:34] <xclaesse> is there something that changed in ubuntu 16.04 that makes ssh client not using DSA keys anymore?
[18:37] <seb128> xclaesse, that might be a question for #ubuntu-devel rather
[19:09] <dobey> people still use DSA keys?
[19:23] <xclaesse> dobey, looks like I still had one the laptop connected on my TV
[19:23] <xclaesse> but it's not replaced
[19:39] <dobey> hmm, i keep having problems with the app menus in 16.04 :(
[19:40] <willcooke> dobey, they keep vanishing?
[19:41] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1532226
[19:41] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1532226 in unity (Ubuntu) "No menu bar in gtk apps on fresh boot" [High,Confirmed]
[19:43] <dobey> willcooke: it's set to show them in the title bar, and yeah, they keep not being there; or well, they aren't visible, but if i press Alt+F they show up under the (X) button, and i can cycle through them with arrow keys, but the menus stay affixed to the left side of the window
[19:43] <willcooke> Trevinho, ^ related?
[19:45] <dobey> chromium seems to always be fine, but all my gtk+ apps (terminal, evolution, empathy, etc…) seem to have the issue
[19:46] <willcooke> dobey, yeah, sounds like the same issue
[20:26] <ximion> Laney: it was good to wait with the AppStream release a little: squashed an important bug introduced by the stub-merging code
[20:26] <ximion> but I'll do the release tomorrow :)
[22:16] <willcooke> seb128, yay!  https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/terminal-tabs/+merge/292055
[22:16] <seb128> willcooke, congrats!
[22:16] <willcooke> thanks!
[22:18] <willcooke> it's funny that what equates to about 1 week of work boils down about 40 lines
[22:18] <seb128> willcooke, let's see when we can land it, not likely today and next week might be busy with release issues so rather SRU?
[22:18] <seb128> yeah...
[22:18] <willcooke> sure, no worries
[22:19] <seb128> Laney, larsu, ^ would be nice if you can have a look, you know css&g-t better
[22:19] <flocculant> willcooke: late night? abroad? or omg release in 5 days? :)
[22:51] <Trevinho> willcooke, dobey: well. In that case I guess that it's the real gtk menu that shows up, not the one we export to unity.


[00:09] <dtchen> hyperair: / TheMuso: all set
[00:09] <dtchen> tested with two devices, does the right thing
[00:10] <TheMuso> dtchen: ok cool.
[00:32]  * mneptok punches directhex in the face
[00:32] <mneptok> YOU ARE GREEN DRAZI!
[00:33]  * slangasek scratches his head
[00:33] <mneptok> slangasek: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/foss-tribalism-in-the-community/
[00:34] <mneptok> slangasek: directhex earns the comment win :)
[00:34] <TheMuso> slangasek: Since I'm almost done for my working day here, and since I'm away for the easter weekend, and since kernel freeze is tomorrow, I'll need exceptions for linux-ports and linux-rt, which will only be rebases. Shall I file a bug to make it formal?
[00:34] <slangasek> I see. :)
[00:35] <slangasek> TheMuso: hmm, how long after kernel freeze are the rebases expected to get done?
[00:35] <TheMuso> slangasek: not till next monday evening my time at the absolute earliest
[00:35] <slangasek> TheMuso: are those packages up-to-date with the linux package currently in the archive?
[00:36] <TheMuso> slangasek: yes they are
[00:36] <slangasek> ok
[00:36] <slangasek> on the bright side, your Monday evening is early
[00:36] <slangasek> yes, please file a bug to remind us that it's coming
[00:36] <TheMuso> Ok will do.
[00:39] <directhex> mneptok, i'd hope slangasek of all people would get an obscure babylon 5 reference
[00:39] <slangasek> Yes.
[00:43] <directhex> especially since i was out-obscured last time :/
[00:46] <mneptok> directhex: between slangasek and myself, it's a tight net to slip through :)
[00:46] <TheMuso> dtchen: I'm going to upload that suspend/resume change for pulse now, since I am about to head off for the easter weekend, unless you want me to hold off, and you get someone else to sponsor the uploads.
[00:46] <dtchen> TheMuso: it's set for upload
[00:46] <TheMuso> dtchen: ok thanks.
[00:47] <dtchen> hyperair: thanks for being on top of it. unfortunately editing files using my phone is somewhat subpar ;)
[00:51] <TheMuso> dtchen: is there a problem with the file?
[00:51] <dtchen> TheMuso: no, my bzr branch is fine.
[00:51] <TheMuso> dtchen: ah ok I just thought there was an error you found relating to use of your phone or some such. :)
[00:52]  * TheMuso does a quick test build.
[00:56] <slangasek> mneptok: I don't think I contribute much there, as I wouldn't have seen the comment at all without being pointed to it... :)
[00:59] <TheMuso> slangasek: ok bug filed, ubuntu-release subscribed.
[00:59] <slangasek> TheMuso: saw it, thanks :)
[00:59] <TheMuso> Ok pulse uploaded, I'm outa here. Happy easter all
[00:59] <slangasek> have a good weekend!
[00:59] <TheMuso> Will do, checking out plenty of live music.
[01:11] <slangasek> kirkland: do you recall why python-moinmoin was among the packages dropped when you cleaned up the server seed?
[01:11] <slangasek> kirkland: asking because it's not seeded anywhere else under Ubuntu, it's currently in main only because kubuntu has not yet merged that change
[01:12] <slangasek> (also because python-moinmoin serecommends: fckeditor from universe, so I need to know which side of that to clean up)
[01:14] <cjwatson> slangasek: oh, I think that recommendation was new in the merge I sponsored recently; if you need to, it probably wouldn't be disastrous to drop it to a suggests
[01:14] <cjwatson> it makes the moin GUI editor work
[01:14] <slangasek> yeah, it looked wrong to me as a Recommends
[01:14] <slangasek> then I went to look at the seed to see in what circumstances python-moinmoin is pulled in, and became Confused
[01:16] <slangasek> cjwatson: should we poke python-moinmoin back into the ubuntu seeds somewhere?
[01:17] <maxb> moinmoin was using an embedded copy of fckeditor until recently. Personally I hate the GUI editor, but some people might see it as a standard part of a Moin install?
[01:18] <slangasek> ah
[01:18] <cjwatson> wasn't it disabled?
[01:18] <slangasek> in 1.6.2-1 it was
[01:20] <cjwatson> one reason I can think of to keep it is that we almost certainly run it on some of our own servers
[01:20] <cjwatson> IIRC including the GUI editor
[01:22] <slangasek> well, first of all, having moin in main only because of the accident that the kubuntu seed hasn't merged that change isn't good - this should be seeded in the dvd seed?
[01:24] <cjwatson> maybe better one of the platform supported-server seeds
[01:25] <slangasek> supported-misc-servers, then?
[01:26] <cjwatson> sounds plausible
[01:27] <slangasek> ok; that leaves fckditor as an open question
[01:27] <slangasek> e
[01:34] <savvas> just so I don't have a guilt for 6 months, do you think I made the right decision to set bug 356935 as invalid? it's too late for such changes right?
[01:35] <slangasek> savvas: barring major bugs in the version we currently have in jaunty, yes
[01:36] <savvas> no bugs whatsoever unfortunately, that little application is damn good, and getting better every time :)
[01:37] <savvas> I guess the live backup can wait for 6 months hehe
[01:40] <LaserJock_> dang, Ubuntu just keeps getting easier and easier to install
[01:41] <slangasek> sorry, we'll try harder for karmic
[01:41] <LaserJock_> :)
[01:42] <savvas> does anyone happen to know which application configuration the installer asks you to import?
[01:42] <savvas> is there a list of these apps?
[01:43] <LaserJock_> it just did firefox, evolution, and pidgin for me
[01:45] <savvas> same :\
[01:45] <savvas> imagine going through the whole 500-600 application configuration folders in my home I gathered this past few years :P
[01:45] <savvas> *these
[01:55] <slangasek> cjwatson: so with that decided, we still need to figure out whether we want fckeditor by default (MIR) or not (upload).
[01:56] <cjwatson> security review might take a while, I guess
[01:56] <cjwatson> I'm happy to have it out given the lateness
[01:56] <cjwatson> want me to upload that?
[01:56] <slangasek> I can
[01:56] <slangasek> I already have it here
[01:57] <cjwatson> ok
[01:57] <cjwatson> beware debian/control.in
[01:58] <slangasek> noted :)
[02:00] <cjwatson> slangasek: my fix for 44194 hasn't had any confirmation that it actually fixes the bug yet, but Lars reckons it doesn't break anything. Do you think I should go ahead and upload what I have?
[02:00] <slangasek> cjwatson: yeah
[02:03] <slangasek> calc: did the OOo upload happen?
[02:04] <slangasek> calc: doesn't appear to have - it's now late, 2 hours past the official deadline?
[02:06]  * slangasek afks for dinner
[02:09] <calc> slangasek: i ran into git eating my brain issue, i am ready to upload now
[02:10] <calc> i'll stage it all on chinstrap and then get into the archive in ~ 2hr (need both packages)
[02:30] <calc> slangasek: around 1hr left until its uploaded to the archive itself
[02:33] <tedg> Is it worth working on some final bugs (not crashers) or is it time to give up?
[02:44] <calc> slangasek: i also disabled sparc in the build (at least afaict), so we probably should remove the sparc binaries from the archive after it is done building
[03:37] <calc> slangasek: done
[03:40] <slangasek> calc: ok; in that case we could drop the sparc binaries immediately anyway
[03:41] <calc> slangasek: ok
[03:42] <calc> they both just got accepted
[03:43] <calc> so if you want to nuke the jaunty sparc binaries go ahead :)
[04:26] <calc> slangasek: could i get you to accept ooo-thumbnailer into universe? :)
[04:30] <calc> slangasek: it closes bug 25827 but I managed to forget to mention it in the changelog :(
[04:43] <ScottK> slangasek: Any ideas on why we stopped building usplash for ia64 last year?
[04:44] <ScottK> I don't see anything in debian/changelog
[04:45] <ScottK> Currently all of Kubuntu except kubuntu-meta is built on IA64, so the completionist in me is a bit frustrated.
[05:24] <slangasek> ScottK: no idea on that one, no
[05:24] <slangasek> calc: does ooo-thumbnailer have an ack from motu-release?
[05:25] <slangasek> actually... either way, I'm not going to get to it tonight
[05:29] <calc> slangasek: ok, i'll ping motu-release
[05:30] <slangasek> ok
[05:32] <slangasek> calc: btw, there are a number of reverse-build-deps of libitext-java that don't seem to have gotten MIRs yet; do you have any information about bouncycastle, libpdfrenderer-java, junitperf, or should I write up the MIRs from scratch?
[05:34] <calc> reverse-build-deps? i must be confused or something
[05:34] <calc> why would reverse-build-deps (things that use a library) need to be moved into main
[05:36] <slangasek> calc: er, I mean build-deps
[05:39] <calc> but no i didn't know anything about its changing, it has been in main for a while now and didn't realize it grew new build-deps
[05:39] <slangasek> I'm not sure they're new
[05:39] <calc> oh
[05:40] <calc> hmm either their new or someone demoted them after it built for intrepid i suppose
[05:40] <slangasek> or libitext-java never had to be rebuilt after being promoted
[05:40] <slangasek> actually, libitext-java was uploaded once since promotion... and is dep-wait.
[05:40] <calc> oh hmm i forgot about that
[05:41] <calc> yea so it either had things demoted or it grew new build-deps
[05:41] <slangasek> no, the package has *never* built successfully in main
[05:41] <slangasek> the binary that's in main is the same version that was originally promoted
[05:42] <calc> hmm how did it get in the archive at all, since the previous upload was a ubuntu change
[05:42] <slangasek> it was built in universe
[05:42] <slangasek> *before* it was promoted
[05:42] <calc> er 1.4.5-3 was promoted
[05:42] <slangasek> oh
[05:42] <slangasek> ok, then they are new build-deps
[05:42] <slangasek> sorry; I was trying to go by debian/changelog, which says nothing about the new deps at all
[05:42] <calc> then 1.4.5-3ubuntu1 was uploaded 6 months later
[05:42] <calc> ok
[05:42] <slangasek> heh, ok :)
[05:43] <slangasek> in that case, I can probably cull these build-deps for jaunty
[05:43] <calc> so whoever requested sync should have written the MIRs
[05:43] <calc> because it would have required an override of the ubuntu changes to have been synced
[05:43] <slangasek> yes, quite
[05:43] <calc> bug 299000
[05:44] <calc> it was matthias
[05:44] <calc> lol
[05:44] <slangasek> yep
[05:46] <slangasek> well, he was right that the Ubuntu change was integrated in the Debian package :)
[05:46] <slangasek> I'll write up the MIRs
[05:46] <calc> ok
[05:46] <calc> i could do it tomorrow, but i'm about to head to bed for tonight
[05:47] <slangasek> that's fine; these are high on my list of things to kill off for release, I'll take care of it before bed
[05:48] <calc> ok
[05:49] <slangasek> that, or kill off the build-deps if I determine they're expendable :)
[05:49] <StevenK> Mmmm. Red-shirt Build-Depends
[05:50] <slangasek> absolutely!
[08:21] <hyperair> dtchen: regarding the pulseaudio hook, the get_pulse_users i wrote that time misses out of a few pulseaudio instances, especially if you've killed pulseaudio before and don't prepend /usr/bin to it.
[08:22] <hyperair> dtchen: could you take the current get_pulse_users() function from the debdiff i proposed?
[08:22] <hyperair> dtchen: to summarize, get_pulse_users() { ps -C pulseaudio -o user=; }
[08:22] <hyperair> dtchen: i think that works much better than using awk
[08:41] <slangasek> soren: dendrobates mentioned last week you would be providing the fix for bug #347622; is that done now, or is the bug still outstanding?
[08:47] <seb128> DOH
[08:47] <seb128> slangasek: already frozen?!?
[08:48] <slangasek> seb128: yep - but if you need something pushed in, we'll do the usual dance of course
[08:48] <slangasek> fusa, then?
[08:49] <seb128> slangasek: please accept fusa, it undo the string freeze breakage of the previous upload
[08:49] <slangasek> sure
[08:49] <seb128> thanks
[08:49] <seb128> I was sort of expect to get work done today
[08:49] <seb128> ie upload quite a lot
[08:49] <seb128> you are just putting extra review load on your shoulder but if you are fine with that ;-)
[08:50] <slangasek> yep, that's the routine
[08:50] <slangasek> the alternative is that everyone makes "one last upload" with "just a small change that can't hurt"
[08:51] <bryce> so nice having the release manager in my time zone :-)
[08:51] <slangasek> heh
[08:51] <slangasek> that's UTC-10, right?
[08:52] <liw> bryce, no no, it's so nice having a release manager who never sleeps
[08:52] <liw> we should have more vampires develop Ubuntu
[08:52] <liw> "Ubuntu: Linux not just for human beings"
[08:55] <slangasek> tseliot: do you agree with pitti's proposal in bug #351394?
[08:56] <tseliot> let me check
[08:58] <tseliot> slangasek: I think I can migrate users without transitional packages when they do the upgrade through Update Manager and bug them to death with debconf if they upgrade from the command line
[08:58] <tseliot> which is what nvidia-common should do
[08:58] <slangasek> oh, nvidia-common already does this?
[09:00] <tseliot> slangasek: yes but it doesn't migrate users with the 177 driver yet though. It should be a trivial change
[09:00] <slangasek> ok
[09:01] <tseliot> slangasek: no, wait it should already do that (since revision 9): https://code.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/nvidia-common/main
[09:02] <bryce> is kde using Qt4.4 or 4.5 in jaunty?
[09:02] <slangasek> bryce: 4.5
[09:02] <bryce> hrm
[09:03] <bryce> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187356#c21 (in ref to our bug #350120)
[09:05] <nixternal> bryce: there is no easy way of fixing the issues due to Kubuntu deciding to use Qt 4.5 (imho it was a bad decision)
[09:05] <nixternal> I would have to say that 350120 is more than likely a Qt/Kubuntu bug more so than an x bug...we knew the warning of using Qt4.5 with KDE <4.3
[09:06] <bryce> nixternal: thanks, that's what I was wondering
[09:06] <bryce> nixternal: what package should this be filed against?
[09:06] <nixternal> qt
[09:07] <savvas> does anyone know the answer to bug 358271? is it actually a bug?
[09:07] <nixternal> woo, kubuntu isn't the only ones to make that mistake of using 4.5, I see gentoo did too :)
[09:08] <bryce> nixternal: hmm no such package 'qt'.  'qt4-x11'?
[09:08] <nixternal> ya, that's it
[09:08] <bryce> awesome thanks
[09:08] <nixternal> np
[09:15] <savvas> cjwatson: I'd like your comment for b ug 358271 when you find some time (since you were the last person that changed console-setup)
[09:24] <tkamppeter> slangasek, hi
[09:26] <tkamppeter> slangasek: I have uploaded HPLIP 3.9.2-3ubuntu4 and as it finished uploading I saw your e-mail that you have frozen the RC. So it missed the freeze for seconds. Can you pass it through?
[09:27] <slangasek> tkamppeter: it will be reviewed by the release team; there are no free passes for "almost" making the freeze cutoff, given that the official freeze deadline was several hours ago :)
[09:32] <tkamppeter> slangasek: sorry, if someone reports a problem I will put out a SRU.
[09:33] <ogra> slangasek, could you do me a favour and trigger a ports-live build (none of our fixes from yesterday seems to have made it on the 09 image)
[09:34] <ogra> *seem
[09:36] <slangasek> lool: ^^ could you do that, maybe? I'm trying to find my bed
[09:37] <seb128> 'night slangasek
[09:37] <lool> slangasek: Happy to
[09:37] <lool> slangasek: Have a good night
[09:37] <slangasek> "trying" is still the operative word ;)
[09:38] <ogra> slangasek, i can do it myself, i just dont like to do it without asking during freezes ;) sleep tight
[09:38]  * lool throws a bed on slangasek
[09:40] <slangasek> ogra: oh; "can you" vs. "can I" :-)
[09:40] <ogra> slangasek, yeah, sorry, you were still up ... GO TO BED NOW !!!
[09:40] <ogra> ;)
[09:42] <lool> slangasek, ogra: Kicking an ubuntu live build for armel
[09:43] <ogra> thanks
[09:43] <lool> (I verified the proper versions of casper, flash-kernel, and gnome-keyring are on the cdimage mirror; however I can't check on the buildds)
[09:45] <lool> cjwatson: ogra reminded me that we shouldn't run for armel alone; will finish this run though, and I don't intend to run another full ports_daily-live build unless you say otherwise
[09:47] <tseliot> doko: any ideas as to why this happens when dist-upgrading to Jaunty (the program works well in Jaunty)? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-common/+bug/346099
[09:48] <tseliot> it's no longer private now
[10:00] <cjwatson> slangasek: ooh, confirmation of 44194
[10:00]  * cjwatson offers up a quick prayer of thanks
[10:01] <cjwatson> savvas: eek; will look, thanks
[10:01] <cjwatson> debian/changelog:284:  * Removed debconf support for grp:alts_toggle, grp:ctrls_toggle,
[10:03] <StevenK> root@mangled:~# deluser ...
[10:03] <StevenK> Warning: Removing group `users', since no other user is part of it.
[10:03]  * StevenK gives adduser a penalty card for 'lying'
[10:06] <savvas> cjwatson: thanks :)
[11:29] <IntuitiveNipple> Do we have anyone to push an openjdk bug-fix? archive freeze is upon us and I haven't had a response from doko
[11:41] <doko> tseliot: this should be gone, afaik
[11:41] <doko> IntuitiveNipple: which one
[11:42] <IntuitiveNipple> doko: oh, you're there :) I emailed you and subscribed you to bug #344705
[11:42] <IntuitiveNipple> doko: thought you may be on vacation
[11:42] <tseliot> doko: ok, thanks
[11:44] <doko> IntuitiveNipple: ok, looking
[11:45] <IntuitiveNipple> doko: thanks :)
[12:15] <ogra> seb128, why is gnome-keyring started in two places ?
[12:15] <ogra> (pam starts it from gdm and xdg has an autostart file)
[12:16] <seb128> not sure, they have different purpose
[12:16] <seb128> the pam thing allows to automatically unlock it
[12:16] <seb128> when entering your password on the login screen
[12:16] <ogra> we're trying to track down the 100% CPU usage on arm atm
[12:16] <ogra> and were wondering if a race could happen here
[12:16] <seb128> the autostart is because you need to get it started when doing autologin or not using gdm too
[12:17] <ogra> its also confusing that we see it running with different options on different systems
[12:17] <seb128> open upstream bugs
[12:17] <ogra> lool sees --start if not using gdm
[12:17] <seb128> I don't know the details
[12:17] <ogra> i see --daemonize --login on my laptop
[14:44] <lool> Hmm I wonder why printf '%c' 0xff doesn't output the same as printf '\xff'
[14:46] <BUGabundo> seb128 is not here?
[14:46] <BUGabundo> is update to pidgin is crashing XMPP and SSL
[14:46] <BUGabundo> pidgin (1:2.5.5-1ubuntu7)   * debian/patches/71_upstream_change_fix_ssl_crasher.patch:
[14:47] <calc> BUGabundo: file a bug with apport crash information :)
[14:47] <BUGabundo> doing so
[14:47] <BUGabundo> I have the .crash for it
[14:47] <BUGabundo> just don't have dbg symbols
[14:47] <BUGabundo> UM is running so I have to way to install it
[14:48] <BUGabundo> seb128: ping
[14:48] <BUGabundo> (02:46:31 PM) freenode: is update to pidgin is crashing XMPP and SSL
[14:48] <BUGabundo> (02:46:47 PM) freenode: pidgin (1:2.5.5-1ubuntu7)   * debian/patches/71_upstream_change_fix_ssl_crasher.patch:
[14:48] <seb128> BUGabundo: contextless ping warning
[14:49] <BUGabundo> sorry for the noise
[14:49] <seb128> ?
[14:49] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: shell doesn't support leading 0x ?
[14:49] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: correction, %c only consumes first character, so you get the 0
[14:50] <ogra> yeah, doesnt that need to be %s ?
[14:50] <seb128> BUGabundo: did you have question or ...?
[14:51] <BUGabundo> seb128: its just that patch is making pidgin crash
[14:51] <BUGabundo> I just got the .crash and bt full
[14:51] <BUGabundo> reporning now on LP
[14:51] <seb128> BUGabundo: are you sure you don't have bug #357949 rather?
[14:51]  * BUGabundo looks
[14:51] <BUGabundo> that's what happens
[14:52] <BUGabundo> but I just got it before lunch!
[14:52]  * seb128 grrr at user filing ton of duplicates
[14:52] <BUGabundo> it was fine until then
[14:52] <BUGabundo> this bug is 18h old
[14:52] <lool> IntuitiveNipple: Indeed; quite counter-intuitive when compared to printf '%i' 0xff
[14:52] <lool> IntuitiveNipple: thanks
[14:52] <seb128> BUGabundo: and you did restart pidgin after upgrade since yesterday before that?
[14:52] <IntuitiveNipple> printf '\xXX' prints the single character with code 0xXX, whereas '%c' prints the ASCII char at index 0 of the relevant argument
[14:53] <BUGabundo> of course
[14:53] <lool> ogra: I wanted to output a byte with the value 0xff, %s would have output "0xff"
[14:53] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: Yeah, that could get confusing!
[14:53] <BUGabundo> just added my bt full to that bug
[14:53] <ogra> lool, ah
[14:53] <lool> IntuitiveNipple: I think %c in C is just like %i or %d, not like %s -- which is why i was confused
[14:54] <lool> Anyway \xff works fine
[14:54] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: convoluted but this works: printf "\x$(printf '%x' 0xff)"
[14:55]  * lool fails to see the point :)
[14:55] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: just because it can :p
[14:55] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: might be useful in some weird string-processing scenario :)
[14:56] <lool> I would just find %c much easier if it wasn't %.1s
[14:56] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: yeah, that'd have to guess the argument type was a hex-expressed byte
[14:58] <BUGabundo> seb128: renaming ~/.purple/icons/ seems to work
[14:58] <lool> (It does for %i and %d!)
[15:00] <IntuitiveNipple> yeah, that is almost looking like a bug
[15:00] <seb128> BUGabundo: I told you that's the same bug ;-)
[15:00] <IntuitiveNipple> since it says 'printf uses the C format specifiers'
[15:00] <BUGabundo> thanks for the tip seb128
[15:01] <lool> I guess it wont every be changed for compatibility purposes
[15:01] <IntuitiveNipple> possibly not, but... "...all C format specifications ending with one of diouxXfeEgGcs, with ARGUMENTs converted to proper type first..."
[15:01] <seb128> BUGabundo: you're welcome
[15:02] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: Is it bash you're working with?
[15:03] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: bug #225637
[15:03] <lool> Eh
[15:04] <IntuitiveNipple> "POSIX requires the current behavior"
[15:04] <lool> IntuitiveNipple: It's zsh
[15:08] <IntuitiveNipple> lool: http://www.zsh.org/mla/workers/2004/msg00356.html
[15:12]  * Hobbsee mourns the loss of working pidgin
[15:12] <ogra> use drums
[15:13] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: it is workable
[15:13] <BUGabundo> if you like to loose all your old avatars
[15:13] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: how does one fix it so it doens't segfault when it's trying to connect?
[15:13] <lool> right
[15:13] <seb128> Hobbsee: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/357949
[15:13] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: rename ~/.purple/icons/
[15:14] <seb128> or remove the gst plugin which lead to the crash
[15:14] <Hobbsee> ah, lovely.
[15:14]  * BUGabundo rather rename... hope I can get it back later.... I love too much my avatar cache
[15:17] <seb128> BUGabundo: just rremove /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstladspa.so
[16:22] <ogra> tedg, should pidgins contact list minimize into the notifier applet ?
[16:22] <Hobbsee> ogra: I wish!
[16:22]  * ogra never uses pidgin ...
[16:23] <tedg> ogra, into the messaging menu?  Yes, it should.  Assuming you have the plugin enabled of course.
[16:23] <ogra_babbage> only here on the test machine for IRC
[16:23] <tedg> Hobbsee: That got fixed with the 0.1.5 upload of indicator-applet and libindicate.
[16:23] <ogra_babbage> tedg: well, thats a fresh jaunty install, shouldnt it be enabled by default ?
[16:23] <Hobbsee> ah ha.  excellent.
[16:24] <ogra_babbage> the buddy list definately minimizes to teh windowlist here
[16:24] <tedg> ogra_babbage: Yes.  Is it up to date?
[16:24] <ogra_babbage> built this afternoon (UTC)
[16:24] <tedg> ogra_babbage: Oh, minimizes?  It'll minimize to the window list, if you close it, it'll go into the menu.
[16:24] <ogra_babbage> if i close it it shuts down pidgin
[16:25] <ogra_babbage> it only minimizes to the applet if i click on the submenu in the applet
[16:26] <ogra_babbage> oh, now it doesnt
[16:26] <ogra_babbage> weird
[16:26] <ogra_babbage> tedg: ignore me, seems it does what it should, though i'm sure it just closed when i tried that before
[16:26]  * tedg hacked into ogra_babbage's machine and fixed it ;)
[16:27] <ogra_babbage> might that have to do with the fact that i wasnt connected before ?
[16:27] <tedg> You should really change that password...
[16:27] <ogra_babbage> damned ... i shouldnt have blogged it :)
[16:27] <tedg> ogra_babbage: Yes, I think that Pidgin does take that into account.  If you're completely offline it closes.
[16:28] <ogra_babbage> ah, ok then it DTRT
[17:05] <cr3> anyone happen to know since when apt-transport-https has been in ubuntu-standard?
[17:05] <cr3> err, "in" as in a dependency of the ubuntu-standard meta package :)
[17:06] <james_w> just this release
[17:06] <cody-somerville> Earlier this release cycle I believe
[17:06] <cr3> james_w: excellent, that saved me quite a bit of searching :)
[17:13] <cjwatson> cr3: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.jaunty/revision/1296
[17:34] <plars> pitti_: awake?
[17:59] <Ampelbein> hmm. apport on intrepid states: "upload() got an unexpected keyword argument 'staging'"
[18:02] <james_w> do you have a backtrace?
[18:05] <dendrobates> slangasek: we have a problem with the upload of eucalyptus soren made yesterday.
[18:05] <dendrobates> slangasek: he introduced a critical bug.
[18:05] <slangasek> dendrobates: I saw a new bug opened, yes
[18:06] <dendrobates> slangasek: this basically completely breaks eucalyptus.  Is there any way I can get this in?
[18:06] <slangasek> dendrobates: yes, please get the fix uploaded
[18:06] <dendrobates> it is uploaded.
[18:06] <Ampelbein> james_w: no. http://paste.ubuntu.com/147778/ is all i get.
[18:06] <dendrobates> slangasek: ^^^
[18:06] <Ampelbein> states network error, but i can connect to launchpad without problems.
[18:07] <slangasek> dendrobates: ok, then I'll review it as soon as I can
[18:07] <dendrobates> slangasek: thanks much.
[18:08] <kees> james_w: excellent reply to the PolicyKit design "bug".  we'll have to use that as a FAQ if it comes up again.
[18:11] <Ng> asac: I'm going a bit crazy here... thunderbird should be able to see gnome-vfs shares, right?
[18:11] <ion_> kees: URL please.
[18:14] <kees> ion_: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/358086
[18:14] <ion_> Thanks
[18:28] <kees> slangasek: which MIRs are critical to release still?
[18:29] <slangasek> kees: the ones that show up with 'Ubuntu Jaunty' on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+subscribedbugs
[18:29] <slangasek> (I'm not done filing all the ones that apply, unfortunately)
[18:49]  * kees face-palms
[18:57] <IntuitiveNipple> I've just helped a user solve a fail-at-initrd stage bug with jaunty. It was failing to find the root partition. Eventually we worked out that udev wasn't building its db. Then the user recalled seeing a message scroll past during boot "udevadm trigger is not premitted while udev is unconfigured" and it turned out that dpkg hasn't completed configuring before the system was rebooted.
[18:58] <IntuitiveNipple> Where precisely should that be posted against?
[19:00] <ion_> Oh noes, the fonts are blurry again. I wonder which package caused it? I have installed many sets of upgrades since the previous reboot/login. Setting lcdfilter as lcdlegacy doesn’t work anymore.
[19:04] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: sounds like the install/upgrade didn't finish before you rebooted.
[19:04] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: not me; the user. apparently the system restart icon came up and so he rebooted
[19:05] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: ah, so "please reboot" happened even though a package failed to install?
[19:05] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: check the dpkg logs and figure out if it was udev or linux that failed, and open it against that package.
[19:06] <kees> it does seem that the update-notifier file should only be put in place if the postinst finishes successfully.  :(
[19:06] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: apparently so. Took a while to diagnose it because he was stuck in the initrd busybox, but the fix was a live-CD env, chroot to the install, and "dpkg --configure -a"
[19:06] <slangasek> does the notification icon know not to launch if dpkg is still running?
[19:06] <IntuitiveNipple> I'm wanting to post a bug but not sure which package to put it against. I found another report of the same issue in forums
[19:07] <kees> slangasek: not sure
[19:07] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: you could open it against both udev and linux :)
[19:10] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: I'm sure Scott would love that!
[19:11] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: heh, well both of those packages drop the "please reboot" file, so they likely both need to be fixed.
[19:12] <IntuitiveNipple> I'll quote you in the bug report then!
[19:12] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: well, please include the logs of the failure too. :)
[19:13] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: there's not much of those since it was initrd, but I've got something from a forum post.
[19:13] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: the package update logs, I mean
[19:13] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: i.e. figure out what state the system was in prior to rebooting
[19:15] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: ah ok... the user reported he updates every day, so the diff was between yesterday and today
[19:16] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: have them include /var/log/dpkg.log
[19:19] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: too late unfortunately - the user had to go to 'karate' ... I suspect he'll be taking out some frustration for the bug :)
[19:20] <slangasek> kees: mumble
[19:21] <slangasek> kees: ok, I guess I'll hack the crap out of libitext to disable libpdfrenderer?
[19:22] <kees> slangasek: I'm really really against libpdfrenderer.  fixing PDF vulnerabilities is hugely time-consuming.  :(
[19:22] <slangasek> ok
[19:23] <Keybuk> IntuitiveNipple, kees: definitely not a bug in udev or linux
[19:23] <Keybuk> well, maybe linux
[19:23] <Keybuk> but not udev
[19:23] <IntuitiveNipple> Keybuk: ok, I didn't think so... what would you suggest?
[19:23] <Keybuk> if you get "udevadm not permitted" inside your initramfs, something called update-initramfs without depending on initramfs-tools!
[19:23] <kees> Keybuk: ah-ha
[19:23] <Keybuk> (initramfs-tools depends on udev obv.)
[19:24] <IntuitiveNipple> hmmm, so maybe initramfs-tools then? My main aim is to keep this on the radar in case others hit it, since it looks like a rare corner-case
[19:24] <Keybuk> no, not initramfs-tools
[19:24] <Keybuk> initramfs-tools is fine
[19:24] <IntuitiveNipple> and the explanation isn't obvious
[19:24] <Keybuk> it's a bug on whatever package *called* initramfs-tools from its postinst
[19:24] <Keybuk> without depending on initramfs-tools
[19:24] <IntuitiveNipple> I think i'll assign it to "Ubuntu" :0
[19:24] <Keybuk> that would be unhelpful
[19:25] <Keybuk> please don't do that
[19:25] <Keybuk> instead grep /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst and look for calls to update-initramfs
[19:25] <Keybuk> and check each of the packages to make sure they have Depends: initramfs-tools
[19:25] <Keybuk> if you find some which don't, file bugs on them
[19:28] <IntuitiveNipple> I'll need the user to return to be able to do that/
[19:28] <james_w> kees: thanks
[19:35] <IntuitiveNipple> Keybuk: what source/script issues that "... not permitted...' text - I couldn't find it grep-ing the initrd or the udev package, but the user may not have reported it correctly
[19:35] <kees> Keybuk: ntfs-3g
[19:36] <kees> for i in $(grep update-initramfs *.{post,pre}{rm,inst} | cut -d: -f1 | perl -pe 's/\.(post|pre)(inst|rm)//' | sort -u); do apt-cache depends --recurse $i | grep Depends | grep -q initramfs-tools || echo $i; done
[19:36] <slangasek> kees: pdfrenderer build-dep axed
[19:36]  * kees hugs slangasek
[19:37] <Keybuk> kees: can you fix it?
[19:38] <kees> Keybuk: we're in freeze, but if slangasek says "yes"
[19:38] <slangasek> yes
[19:40] <jcole> fyi guys, installing flashplugin-nonfree on jaunty 64bit installs the 32bit plugin
[19:40] <kees> jcole: by design
[19:40] <LordKow> yes it does
[19:40] <jcole> kees: why
[19:40] <LordKow> adobe's 64-bit version is still in development and is unstable.
[19:41] <kees> jcole: because the 64bit plugin is still in beta.
[19:41] <jcole> kees: hmm, its always worked fine for me
[19:42] <LordKow> but not everyone, and it's not something ubuntu can maintain/fix
[19:42] <jcole> kees: is there a 64 bit package in ubuntu?
[19:43] <jcole> kees: its not like other beta software doesnt exist in the repos ;)
[19:43] <kees> jcole: there is no officially supported 64bit flash plugin.
[19:43] <kees> in ubuntu
[19:44] <kees> jcole: I wish it did, though :)
[19:44] <kees> jcole: I've been running the 64bit plugin for a few months now, and it's rock-solid for me.
[19:45] <LaserJock> bryce: I just had another lockup, this time on i386. I think maybe I'm going to go back to the -intel assumption
[19:45] <jcole> kees: same here... who says its unstable? or does unstable=beta
[19:46] <kees> jcole: the problem is that Adobe hasn't officially released it, so tracking it as it updates is harder.
[19:46] <kees> Keybuk: just to be sure I understand, this is the only thing that needs changing, right?
[19:46] <kees> -Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[19:46] <kees> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, initramfs-tools
[19:46] <james_w> Ampelbein: is your python-launchpad-bugs package at 0.3.5?
[19:47] <bryce> LaserJock: bug #?
[19:47] <LaserJock> bryce: don't have one as of yet, I don't know what the heck to even write
[19:47] <Keybuk> kees:
[19:47] <Keybuk> kees: yup
[19:47] <Keybuk> it's a simple dependency issue
[19:47] <jcole> kees: i have problems with the 32 bit plugin... for example, when i close firefox, i will still hear sound and see a bunch of nspluginwrapper processes that i have to kill manually... ive never had that problem after switching to the 64bit version
[19:47] <LaserJock> bryce: it just seems to lock up when I do too many things at once
[19:48] <Keybuk> because of the move of udev from /etc/udev/rules.d to /lib/udev/rules.d it became important that things don't muck around with udevadm while udev is mid-air
[19:48] <slangasek> kees: ok, how's odt2txt look to you for a MIR candidate?  (would like to know if it has a shot before writing up the MIR)
[19:48] <kees> jcole: agreed.
[19:48] <jcole> kees: if you ask me, the 32bit plugin is unstable
[19:48] <Keybuk> ie. Depend on udev if you use it
[19:48] <kees> jcole: I blame nspluginwrapper :)
[19:48] <jcole> kees: it also locks up my sound card
[19:48] <Keybuk> and as a result, Depend on initramfs-tools too
[19:48] <kees> slangasek: one sec
[19:48] <kees> jcole: that I blame on pulseaudio.  ;)
[19:51] <jcole> kees: even though the 64bit version is "beta", its more stable than the 32bit version... so why not put a more stable version in the repos for 64 bit users?
[19:52] <slangasek> because we're releasing in three weeks and are not going to rearrange the package based on one anecdotal report that the 64-bit version is more stable
[19:52] <slangasek> sorry, two weeks
[19:53] <kees> slangasek: ntfs-3g uploaded
[19:54] <slangasek> ok, will snag it
[19:54] <kees> jcole: asac is the best person to answer that; he has a plan for what will be happening in karmic
[19:54] <kees> slangasek: odt2txt looks probably okay, though I'm cringing at the embedded zip processor...
[19:56] <jcole> slangasek: understood, and another name could be ia64-flashplugin-nonfree... the reason of it not being in repos because its "beta" doesnt make sense to ,e when we have lots of other experimental software in the repos (ie: samba4)
[19:56] <jcole> s/,e/me
[19:57] <kees> (jcole: ia64 != x86_64)
[19:57] <jcole> kees: heh, sorry
[19:57] <jcole> kees: i didnt mean itanium
[19:57] <kees> jcole: anyway, the issue is that no one stepped up to handle it in jaunty
[19:58] <kees> jcole: asac has plans for doing it karmic though
[19:59] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: looks like fuse-utils is affected too
[19:59] <slangasek> right; samba4 is there because there's a Debian maintainer for it, whereas for flash we have a hard enough time getting one package maintained sensibly
[20:01] <Stskeeps> http://s41.radikal.ru/i094/0904/90/4db739743759.jpg
[20:01] <Stskeeps> err. sorry, ignore that
[20:01] <Keybuk> pretty
[20:01] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: I see initramfs-tools in the depends for fuse-utils
[20:02] <Keybuk> kees: weird, I don't
[20:02] <kees> Keybuk: fuse-utils -> udev -> initramfs-tools
[20:02] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: hmmm, strange
[20:02] <Keybuk> ah, good point
[20:02] <Keybuk> yes, it's fine to depend on udev or initramfs-tools
[20:02] <alex-weej_> is Hibernate supposed to use a normal file if no swap partition is enabled?
[20:03] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: no
[20:03] <kees> Keybuk: so you're saying a package must declare its own Depend on udev/initramfs-tools if it uses it, not just via a recursive depend?
[20:03] <alex-weej_> Keybuk: ok, critical bug in jaunty then
[20:03] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: which is critical?
[20:03] <Keybuk> kees: recursive is fine
[20:03] <Keybuk> kees: dpkg postinst ordering reasons, not esoteric
[20:04] <kees> Keybuk: okay, then I think my cmdline above should find them all, and only ntfs-3g popped out
[20:04] <slangasek> it's not "fine", it's brittle; it works as long as the recursive depends is there
[20:04] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: are you saying that hibernate is creating a file for you?
[20:04] <slangasek> and starts failing as soon as the thing you were relying on to do the depending for you no longer does
[20:04] <alex-weej_> Keybuk: i accidentally hit Hibernate instead of Suspend in FUSA menu, something printed on the console "no swap partition enabled, try swapon -a" but the disk just churned away for > 10 minutes before i gave up and forced a reboot
[20:04] <alex-weej_>  = lost data
[20:04] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: that doesn't sound that Critical to me
[20:05] <alex-weej_> data loss = critical
[20:05] <Keybuk> it sounds like "don't do that then" with a low or medium bug
[20:05] <Keybuk> then it's a critical bug that Ubuntu loses data if I hit my computer with a lump-hammer?
[20:05] <Keybuk> *you* powered off your computer
[20:05] <Keybuk> if you'd left it alone, it might have recovered
[20:05] <Keybuk> and I'd be surprised if it lost data in the process, hibernate usually involves a sync
[20:05] <kees> slangasek: if that's so, then these need something: watershed cryptsetup dmsetup kbd linux-ubuntu-modules-*
[20:05] <slangasek> kees: those all invoke update-initramfs but don't depend on initramfs-tools?
[20:06] <alex-weej_> Keybuk: what on EARTH could it be doing to my disk for 10 minutes? i was more worried that it was writing RAM to my data partitions than anything else
[20:06] <kees> $ grep update-initramfs cryptsetup.*
[20:06] <kees> cryptsetup.postinst:	if [ -x /usr/sbin/update-initramfs ]; then
[20:06] <kees> cryptsetup.postinst:		update-initramfs -u
[20:06] <kees> $ apt-cache show cryptsetup | grep Depends
[20:06] <kees> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.8), libdevmapper1.02.1 (>= 2:1.02.20), libgcrypt11 (>= 1.4.0), libgpg-error0 (>= 1.4), libpopt0 (>= 1.14), libuuid1 (>= 1.05), dmsetup
[20:06] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: it wouldn't have done that, it's more likely it was simply paging
[20:06] <slangasek> linux-ubuntu-modules-* no longer exists
[20:06] <alex-weej_> i don't have a swap partition
[20:06] <alex-weej_> how could it page?
[20:07] <IntuitiveNipple> It's bug #358654
[20:07] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: it can still flush the cache and then have to reload everything file-backed from disk
[20:07] <slangasek> kees: dmsetup doesn't appear to even recursively depend on initramfs-tools?
[20:07] <alex-weej_> it doesn't take 10 minutes to bring my system up from cold
[20:08] <kees> slangasek: odd, my lum is purged, but I still have dpkg info files for it.
[20:08] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: by all means file a bug
[20:08] <Keybuk> but please realise that it's *NOT* critical
[20:08] <cody-somerville> Does amd64 use the generic kernel?
[20:08] <Keybuk> cody-somerville: amd64 has its own kernel
[20:08] <slangasek> it has its own kernel, which is called "-generic"
[20:08] <kees> slangasek: ah! apt-cache depends is following Breaks
[20:08] <slangasek> kees: right :)
[20:08] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: you powered off your own machine - so at best, you could file a critical bug on yourself ;)
[20:09] <cody-somerville> Keybuk, whats it called?
[20:09] <cody-somerville> linux-amd64 doesn't seem to exist
[20:09] <Keybuk> cody-somerville: generic iirc
[20:09] <kees> cody-somerville: linux-generic
[20:09] <slangasek> Keybuk: how long should one sit in front of a hung machine before it's reasonable to conclude it's not coming back, then?
[20:09] <alex-weej_> Keybuk: by that logic any bug that causes a system hang but doesn't kill the power is not critical
[20:09] <IntuitiveNipple> cody-somerville: it's a different arch; same package names
[20:10] <Keybuk> alex-weej_: you said the disk was active
[20:10] <Keybuk> doesn't sound like a hang, simply sounds like it was busy
[20:10] <Keybuk> it's certainly a bug
[20:10] <alex-weej_> Keybuk: and in a normal "hang" situation, it's difficult to tell whether anything is "active"
[20:10] <alex-weej_> well the keyboard fails to respond
[20:11] <kees> Keybuk, slangasek: list seems to include: dmsetup cryptsetup kbd watershed.  shall I shove each of those?
[20:12] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: do you want to add them to the bug report, or shall I? They're currently in a comment
[20:12] <kees> IntuitiveNipple: I can add them
[20:12] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: ok
[20:13] <IntuitiveNipple> Do we have a way to search the archive to identify other packages that we may not have installed that also need patching?
[20:14] <kees> Keybuk: watershed only Recommends udev -- was there a reason to try to keep its Depends light?
[20:16] <kees> Keybuk: and cryptsetup has initramfs-tools as a Suggests
[20:18] <kees> slangasek: let me know what you think; I'm nervous to make these changes post-freeze for the less-obvious cases.
[20:19] <slangasek> kees: Depends is the only way to enforce package configuration prior to the postinst being run, which is what we're trying to achieve; I think these are all "obvious" cases
[20:19] <kees> slangasek: okay
[20:21] <kees> slangasek: and you think I should even add it for those that Depend on udev already?
[20:22] <slangasek> kees: I think those are not worth bothering with right now because the transitive dep does take care of it
[20:22] <slangasek> but we should eventually fix those rather than relying on another package to guarantee us something we should be depending on directly
[20:30] <dendrobates> slangasek: soren did not actually up load eucalyptus, he wanted approval first.  it is on chinstrap chinstrap:~soren/upload/  and in his ppa.
[20:30] <dendrobates> slangasek: sorry for the bad information.
[20:30] <slangasek> is it signed?
[20:32] <dendrobates> slangasek: yes.
[20:32] <slangasek> dendrobates: could you throw it at the queue for me? :)
[20:32] <dendrobates> slangasek: yes.
[20:40] <kees> slangasek: cryptsetup, devmapper, kbd, watershed all uploaded.
[20:44] <dendrobates> slangasek: uploaded
[20:44] <IntuitiveNipple> kees: looks like just in time another user is reporting it too
[20:45] <IntuitiveNipple> and there were two others that came and went before we could investigate this afternoon, too
[21:16] <geser> anyone here using (g)vim and bicyclerepair?
[21:25] <gopogo> ubuntu jaunty is  not detecting windows during installation
[21:26] <gopogo> why its nort detecting windwows during installation
[21:32] <hyperair> gopogo: dunno, but this isn't the right place. head to #ubuntu.
[21:32] <hyperair> gopogo: sorry i meant #ubuntu+1
[21:32] <hyperair> you might like to file a bug too
[22:00] <dtchen> hyperair: yes, i'll queue it, thanks
[22:00] <hyperair> dtchen: alright thanks
[22:10] <DBO> bryce, do you mind talking a bit of intel xorg with me?
[22:11] <DBO> erm, actually I'll take this to #ubuntu-x
[22:18] <ScottK> cprov: Would you please tell me why usplash no longer gets built on ia64?
[22:19] <pwnguin> itanium?
[22:19] <ScottK> Yep.
[22:19] <cprov> ScottK, I don't know, but i can quickly check for you.
[22:19] <ScottK> cprov: Thanks.
[22:19] <kirkland> slangasek: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nut/+bug/357583
[22:19] <kirkland> slangasek: trivial debdiff attached, ubuntu-release subscribed
[22:20] <cprov> ScottK: pas-ed -> %usplash: amd64 armel i386 lpia powerpc sparc
[22:22] <slangasek> dendrobates: oh, in fact, eucalyptus was uploaded already
[22:23] <dendrobates> slangasek: yeah, I misuderstood sorens message.
[22:24] <slangasek> well, I'll just review the one of them. :)
[22:24] <ScottK> cprov: Thanks.
[22:24] <slangasek> kirkland: ack
[22:24] <cprov> ScottK: usplash was recently enabled for lpia, last time it was allowed to build in ia64 was in hardy
[22:24] <cprov> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/usplash/0.5.19
[22:24] <ScottK> cprov: We've got the same problem on ia64.
[22:24] <kirkland> slangasek: ack = message received, or go ahead with upload?
[22:25] <slangasek> kirkland: well, both; no reason to wait for review prior to uploading to the queue
[22:25] <kirkland> slangasek: synack
[22:34] <dtchen> hyperair: i'll just reopen 202089 and sub the relevant parties
[22:35] <hyperair> dtchen: okay
[22:48] <dtchen> slangasek: do you prefer that i subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/202089/comments/127 ?
[22:55] <slangasek> lool, persia: the VFP-optimized libs are still 'in progress'?
[22:56] <lool> slangasek: 2 are in the canonical-arm-dev PPA, but gtk+ doesn't want to complete building
[22:56] <persia> slangasek, I'm hoping to pass the other two to lool today for testing there as well.
[22:56] <slangasek> which 2 are in the PPA right now?
[22:56] <slangasek> more to the point, why are they not uploaded to jaunty?
[22:57] <slangasek> dtchen: prefer relative to what?
[22:57] <persia> slangasek, pango and gtk+, and because they might break something.
[22:57] <dtchen> slangasek: simply finding a sponsor
[22:57] <lool> slangasek: Actually gtk+ just built an hour ago
[22:58] <slangasek> persia: but, er, of course they might break something; if they're going to be uploaded to jaunty at all, it should be sooner rather than later?
[22:58] <slangasek> dtchen: ah; then I have no preference at all, unless you're trying to tag me to be a sponsor ;)
[22:58] <persia> slangasek, OK.  I'll just seek sponsorship for the other two, rather than passing them through lool.
[22:59] <lool> slangasek: I wanted to run them before pushing to the archive and perhaps breaking builds etc.
[23:00] <slangasek> lool: if you're specifically concerned that the new packages are going to break arm itself, then that's fine, do what you need to in order to QA them - if it was a question of general breakage, though, better to get more eyeballs on the packages
[23:01] <slangasek> but in any case, they need to get to the archive soon
[23:01] <radix> slangasek: hi, I have (sad to say) some changes that I'd like to nominate for jaunty for landscape-client. they're bugfix-only. I've prepared everything: should I subscribe ubuntu-release to the bug?
[23:01] <lool> slangasek: My plan was to upload them to PPA, run them, push to archive; cdimage/debian-cd kept me busy and gtk took longer to build than expected, so it's not done yet, sorry
[23:01] <slangasek> radix: if they're bugfix-only, please get the package uploaded to jaunty and it can be reviewed from there in the unapproved queue
[23:02] <radix> slangasek: oh, okay, so I'll get a regular main uploader to do that?
[23:02] <slangasek> lool: sounds like things are on track from here, so no worries
[23:02] <slangasek> radix: yes
[23:02] <radix> sorry for the distraction. thanks very much
[23:05] <Keybuk_> I like hard locks just before RC
[23:07] <radix> are there any main sponsors that could take a look at bug #358744 for me?
[23:18] <lool> slangasek: Pushed pango; gtk failed QA (missing one substitution, so I've pushed it again)
[23:19] <slangasek> ok


[15:46] <LaserJock> hmm, looks like I broke the text-based installer
[16:18] <nubae|work> greets LaserJock
[16:35] <LaserJock> hi nubae|work
[16:42]  * nubae|work battles telepathy and dbus...
[16:43] <nubae|work> good thing is I now understand dbus pretty thoroughly :-) I wasn't really sure what it was till now...
[16:43] <LaserJock> good
[16:43] <LaserJock> I don't that I do exactly
[16:43] <LaserJock> but I'm glad somebody does
[16:43] <LaserJock> :-)
[16:43] <nubae|work> heh... well to use telepathy u need to know dbus cause all the methods and signals go through there
[16:44] <LaserJock> yes, I'm becoming aware of that unfortunately
[16:44] <nubae|work> I also learnt how collaboration really works... basically its dbus on one machine connected to dbus on another
[16:44] <LaserJock> Ubuntu's fancy IM integration stuff was causing me problems because of telepathy
[16:44] <nubae|work> if u think about the possibilities this creates, its awsome
[16:45] <nubae|work> yeah telepathy is big... but reading the developer's manual helps
[16:45] <LaserJock> the only issue I seem to have is when I don't really need all that
[16:45] <LaserJock> just a personal thing
[16:45] <nubae|work> what do u mean?
[16:46] <LaserJock> I mean I don't need/want collaboration personally
[16:46] <LaserJock> and it's becoming more integrated into the OS
[16:46] <LaserJock> so that it's becoming harder for me to avoid it
[16:46] <nubae|work> well, u don't have to use it :-) but it sure brings new possibilities to apps
[16:46] <LaserJock> my problem is I'm starting to have to use it
[16:47] <nubae|work> ah... right... well yeah can't really avoid telepathy anymore, unless u wanna not use communication at all
[16:47] <LaserJock> I wanted to use pidgin
[16:47] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu kept opening Empathy on incoming messages
[16:47] <LaserJock> whether I had an empathy window open or not
[16:47] <nubae|work> hmm, really, thats strange...
[16:47] <LaserJock> because of the dbus calls, etc.
[16:48] <nubae|work> well, empathy isnt really linked to the calls... it should be using telepathy straight...
[16:48] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu indicator app picks up the incoming message
[16:48] <nubae|work> though it wasnt always like that, I guess u're talking about the past
[16:48] <LaserJock> and starts up mission control
[16:48] <nubae|work> when empathy had its own libs
[16:48] <LaserJock> no, I'm talking about how this is being integrated into the OS
[16:49] <nubae|work> yeah and mission control chooses the connection manager, and then marshall stuff depending on the client in use... but empathy shouldnt kidnap your pidgin messages
[16:49] <nubae|work> at least doesnt happen for me
[16:49] <LaserJock> I had assumed that if I closed empathy it would stop "looking" for incoming messages
[16:49] <nubae|work> definetly
[16:49] <LaserJock> but that's not the case now in Ubuntu
[16:49] <nubae|work> hmmm, in Karmic?
[16:50] <LaserJock> yeah
[16:50] <nubae|work> I havent looked at karmic yet... in terms of telepathy, but that would be a major regression
[16:50] <LaserJock> it's a "feature" :-)
[16:50] <LaserJock> so they patched it so that it now looks to pidgin first if it's open
[16:51] <LaserJock> which seems like kind of a hacky workaround to me but I don't know
[16:51] <LaserJock> and gwibber is worse
[16:51] <LaserJock> because there's no UI to close the client
[16:51] <nubae|work> well, the problem is that pidgin doesnt use telepathy
[16:51] <LaserJock> well, it shouldn't *have* to
[16:51] <nubae|work> and telepathy is now hard coded into the WM like you say
[16:51] <LaserJock> I think this telepathy stuff is interesting for sure
[16:52] <nubae|work> well, the fact that everyone has agreed on a standard communications platform, to me says it should :-)
[16:52] <LaserJock> I just hope that it doesn't get too hard coded for those of us who don't necessarily need it
[16:52] <LaserJock> but that stander here is XMPP, not telepathy
[16:52] <nubae|work> well, unless u intend to not use video/audio conferencing, instant messaging, collaboration, SIP, etc etc
[16:53] <LaserJock> all I want is a Jabber client
[16:53] <LaserJock> no video/audio, collaboration, SIP, etc.
[16:53] <LaserJock> Jabber and maybe IRC if they can do it well
[16:53] <nubae|work> well, telepathy uses XMPP and it is the chosen communications platform for Gnome...
[16:53] <nubae|work> its just standardisation
[16:53] <nubae|work> for devs, it makes sense
[16:54] <nubae|work> the end user can find it annoying I guess
[16:54] <LaserJock> well, I just want my IM client to work
[16:54] <LaserJock> and not be autospawning
[16:54] <nubae|work> yeah thats pretty bad... I'm sure thats not intended
[16:54] <nubae|work> telepathy should work very independently of empathy
[16:55] <LaserJock> it's disconcerting to me that apps are automatically opening up when I've closed them
[16:55] <LaserJock> no, it is intended unfortunatley
[16:55] <LaserJock> right, I'm not blaming telepathy per se
[16:55] <nubae|work> well, at least on Jaunty, that behaviour is not there... I can control telepathy independently of empathy
[16:55] <LaserJock> yes
[16:56] <LaserJock> it's a karmic feature
[16:56] <nubae|work> feature... that doesnt sound right
[16:56] <LaserJock> the issue isn't really telepathy
[16:56] <nubae|work> who came up with that idea, I wonder
[16:56] <LaserJock> it's that they're catching incoming messages whether empathy is open or not and starting up the client
[16:57] <nubae|work> right, but that would mean that empathy is hardcoded to always be on somehow, or, that the dbus bindings launch empathy, which would be very strange
[16:58] <LaserJock> so I end up having a hard time figuring out which apps are open and which are not
[16:58] <LaserJock> yeah, the indicator-session applet uses dbus to launch empathy
[16:58] <nubae|work> I'm gonna install Karmic and take a look
[16:58] <nubae|work> ah ok, so this indicator-session applet is new for karmic?
[16:58] <LaserJock> sorta
[16:58] <nubae|work> or its got the new dbus launching empathy functionality...
[16:58] <LaserJock> I think it might be around in Jaunty but not as powerful
[16:59] <nubae|work> gotcha...
[16:59] <LaserJock> so they told me that the only way (before the fix they just put in) to stop this behavior
[16:59] <LaserJock> was to disable all the accounts in empathy
[16:59] <LaserJock> then it would just go to pidgin
[16:59] <nubae|work> gosh
[17:00] <LaserJock> I'm pretty confused by the whole thing
[17:00] <LaserJock> and it seems like the only way to get things "normal" is to use empathy
[17:00] <LaserJock> which seems kind of "not nice" to me
[17:00] <LaserJock> I love pidgin and would like to continue using it for the foreseeable future
[17:02] <nubae|work> well, the problem is there is a lot it can't do due to not using telepathy
[17:02] <nubae|work> like sharing the desktop, file transfers to gabble, msn, salut accounts
[17:02] <nubae|work> video/audio conferencing to more than 2 people at the same time
[17:03] <nubae|work> and from a development point of view, it makes no sense to continue to support pidgin, as nice as it is
[17:03] <LaserJock> right
[17:03] <alkisg> It also runs on windows :) Makes collaboration easier for people using multiple platforms :)
[17:03] <LaserJock> well, somebody would have to write a nice IM client that uses telepathy for me to be interested
[17:03] <nubae|work> well, telepathy doesn't work on windows
[17:03]  * alkisg will keep using pidgin for some time...
[17:03] <nubae|work> though there are efforts to port it
[17:03] <LaserJock> the other stuff just doesn't excite me
[17:04] <nubae|work> there are a LOT of telepathy projects being worked on
[17:04] <nubae|work> who knows, maybe mine will catch your fancy... lol
[17:04] <LaserJock> so I certainly don't mind telepathy being around, and am generally a fan
[17:04] <LaserJock> but I'd like to be able to use my choice of IM client without "punishment"
[17:04] <nubae|work> well, I agree that it shouldnt force u to use one client, and I dont believe that is its intention
[17:05] <LaserJock> I think it is ;-)
[17:05] <LaserJock> though not in a mean way
[17:05] <nubae|work> I know of at least 4-5 chat clients using telepathy
[17:05] <LaserJock> the guys doing this don't like pidgin
[17:05] <nubae|work> and they can run concurrently without issues
[17:05] <alkisg> Maybe pidgin will get a (secondary) telepathy backend in the future..
[17:05] <LaserJock> and pretty much think it should die
[17:05] <nubae|work> come on... no conspiracy theories ;-)
[17:05] <LaserJock> well, it's fairly common knowledge
[17:05] <LaserJock> I don't blame them
[17:06] <LaserJock> but still, the bias is there
[17:06] <nubae|work> that would make the most sense... using telepathy in pidgin
[17:06] <LaserJock> when I mention a bug they tell me I should just use empathy and forget pidgin
[17:06] <nubae|work> well, its a telepathy thing... empathy is just a small example of how to use telepathy
[17:06] <nubae|work> the major work has gone into the comms platform
[17:06] <nubae|work> heh...
[17:06] <LaserJock> right, but since telepathy doesn't give me any other advantages
[17:07] <LaserJock> I'm having to put up with a crappy IM client because of a framework that doesn't gain me anything
[17:07] <LaserJock> which seems not so fun to me
[17:07] <alkisg> I see telepathy in the same way that I see the gstreamer library... Sure, it's a good backend, but totem doesn't yet do everything vlc or mplayer do. Same thing with empathy, it doesn't yet do what pidgin does...
[17:07] <nubae|work> I'd be pretty surprised if there is nothing telepathy can do for u
[17:07] <LaserJock> nubae|work: I can't think of anything
[17:07] <nubae|work> do u use vino and vinagre?
[17:07] <LaserJock> no
[17:07] <nubae|work> that uses telepathy
[17:07] <LaserJock> I apt-get remove those
[17:07] <nubae|work> jokosher?
[17:07] <LaserJock> I don't want VNC on my machine
[17:08] <nubae|work> abiword?
[17:08] <LaserJock> nope
[17:08] <nubae|work> inkscape?
[17:08] <LaserJock> nope
[17:08] <LaserJock> sometimes
[17:08] <nubae|work> ah...
[17:08] <nubae|work> there was bound to be one :p
[17:08] <LaserJock> so how does telepathy help me with inkscape?
[17:08] <nubae|work> u can share drawings with other users
[17:09] <LaserJock> I've never wanted to do that
[17:09] <nubae|work> ok, but the ability is there... and its quite useful in school situations...
[17:09] <LaserJock> I mean, I understand why many people would
[17:09] <nubae|work> anyway, surely u can dream up something it would be useful to u for
[17:09] <LaserJock> I just personally don't need/want it
[17:09] <LaserJock> so I'm not gaining anything from it
[17:10] <nubae|work> how about sharing a chem app somehow...
[17:10] <LaserJock> which makes it harder for me to justify the nasty IM client
[17:10] <nubae|work> well, that will change soon enough
[17:10] <LaserJock> I just don't feel the need to share things
[17:10] <LaserJock> maybe I'm anti-social, I don't know
[17:10] <LaserJock> I've just not had a need for it
[17:10] <nubae|work> do u use gtalk?
[17:11] <LaserJock> Jabber
[17:11] <LaserJock> not gtalk itself though
[17:11] <nubae|work> right but more and more telepathy is taking care of gtalk directly
[17:11] <LaserJock> it's another not-so-useful IM client
[17:11] <nubae|work> hmm, there I disagree
[17:11] <nubae|work> I use it a lot, just cause of the gmail integration
[17:11] <LaserJock> but I don't want it integrated
[17:12] <nubae|work> but if u dont use gmaiil, ok, I can see it not being that great
[17:12] <LaserJock> I use gmail
[17:12] <LaserJock> exclusively
[17:12] <LaserJock> but that's email, not IM
[17:12] <nubae|work> hmm, they are so similar... :p
[17:12] <LaserJock> I don't want things integrated into my email, it's just useless and distracting
[17:12] <LaserJock> no, they are worlds different
[17:12] <LaserJock> I talk to almost completely different people between them
[17:12] <LaserJock> I use email for mass communication
[17:13] <nubae|work> i bet u there will come a day where email becomes obsolete and there is just instant messaging
[17:13] <LaserJock> IM for personally conversations
[17:13] <LaserJock> I suppose
[17:13] <LaserJock> I'm not a big fan of email
[17:13] <LaserJock> I wouldn't mind having something better
[17:13] <nubae|work> its a highly insecure old bothersome protocol
[17:13] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how people can make it better
[17:13] <nubae|work> well, jabber takes care of that in a much better way, imho
[17:14] <LaserJock> except it's not great at mass communication
[17:14] <nubae|work> anyhow... I must go... home sweet home...
[17:14] <LaserJock> and it's real time, which sucks
[17:14] <nubae|work> hmm, why not...
[17:14] <nubae|work> doesnt have to be real time
[17:14] <nubae|work> u can leave messages on the server
[17:14] <nubae|work> and it can multicast just fine
[17:14] <LaserJock> sure
[17:14] <LaserJock> but then it's just email
[17:15] <LaserJock> with a different transmission protocol
[17:15] <nubae|work> well no, its a secure protocol
[17:15] <LaserJock> instead of SMTP you're using XMPP or something
[17:15] <nubae|work> its better controlled
[17:15] <nubae|work> right
[17:15] <LaserJock> sure
[17:15] <LaserJock> but that's not changing much
[17:15] <nubae|work> xmpp is far superior to xmtp
[17:15] <LaserJock> the end user won't notice a difference
[17:15] <nubae|work> no the end user wont
[17:15] <nubae|work> which is a good thing
[17:15] <LaserJock> right
[17:16] <nubae|work> anyway, have to go... i'll be on later from home...
[17:16] <nubae|work> laters...
[17:16] <LaserJock> cya
[20:33] <Balsaq> registered my nick, reveived email to finish it, followed the instructions, now get message-must log in 1st to register nick?
[20:35] <alkisg> Balsaq: better ask in #ubuntu-irc