[00:14] <RMod> hello chan
[00:15] <RMod> anyone else experiencing probs booting 8.10
[00:15] <RMod> keeps dropping me to busybox
[00:19] <sjnovick> Hi room.  I am using MythBuntu 8.04 on a fairly fast 64-bit computer (with lots of HD space).  Everything works great except for the channel guide.  Whenever I push the up or down arrow to look through the channels, there is a terrible lag time.  Any advice?
[00:25] <sjnovick> !help
[00:25] <Zinn> !help Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[00:25] <sjnovick> !slow channel guide
[00:25] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about slow channel guide
[00:26] <hads> sj
[00:26] <hads> D'oh
[00:26] <LonEagle> oh man, really?  i got a random grub error 13 but the 2nd time i try to boot it's fine
[00:26] <LonEagle> i should have made a 256mb /boot as the first partition
[01:36] <kgbzealor> Hello, I just recently upgraded Ubuntu from Gutsy with mythtv 0.21 (not fixes) to Hardy (which upgraded me to 0.21-fixes).  Now, however, when I run "mythfrontend" in a terminal, it seems to run normally, except that no mythfrontend window appears.  The same issue happens when I run mythtv-setup, where everything appears normal, but no GUI ever shows up.  Any suggestions?
[01:48] <kattollikisd> can someone can just tell me what is the purpose of Mythbuntu?
[01:52] <foxbuntu> kattollikisd, what do you mean by that?
[01:53] <kattollikisd> I mean.... ( I don't know how to say it in english )  :(
[01:54] <kattollikisd> i'll try to tell you....
[01:55] <kattollikisd> What is the different think in Mythbuntu? I want to know... what think can do Mythbuntu?
[01:55] <kattollikisd> Foxbuntu, you get it right? :S
[01:56] <foxbuntu> kattollikisd, different from what?
[01:58] <kattollikisd> I mean in the metacity, or is if it mora faster, What Can i do in Mythbuntu that I can not do in other like Xubuntu or ubuntu etc.
[01:59] <foxbuntu> kattollikisd, Mythbuntu is basically a modified version of Xubuntu to be presetup for MythTV as a standalone device, but that does not limit what you can use it for.
[02:00] <kattollikisd> ok.. it mean a MythTV use Xfce ?
[02:01] <kattollikisd> ?
[02:02] <foxbuntu> MythTV does not require XFCE, we just chose XFCE for performance reasons
[02:02] <kattollikisd> ohh ok
[02:02] <kattollikisd> Thanks Foxbuntu :)
[02:37] <blinkn1> hello
[02:52] <frozenskunk> Has anyone had success getting the TV out of a PVR-350 working with 8.10? I can get test patterns and everything to display, but can't get my x session moved over to the 350 successfully. When I change to the xorg.conf file that should move things over, it fails on boot and I get a command line login prompt (which is at least on the tv) where I can login and change back to a working .conf file.
[02:54] <LonEagle> hmm what lets you play svid with the internal player?
[02:54] <LonEagle> err i meant xvid
[02:57] <frozenskunk> Not sure what you mean by that; are you asking where the video shows up when I try to play something through xvid?
[02:59] <LonEagle> oh wait i was looking at the video browser.
[03:00] <LonEagle> i got it  now
[03:24] <scotepi> i just installed #ubuntu-mythtv for the 3rd time.. this time im getting out of range when X starts
[03:25] <scotepi> how do i configure X?
[03:25] <scotepi> i have a fairly high range display, 1280x1024@60
[03:25] <scotepi> *mythbuntu
[03:25] <superm1> scotepi, what video driver you using?
[03:26] <scotepi> AMD, trying to get TV out
[03:26] <scotepi> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500]
[03:26] <scotepi> oh crap, not suported ><
[03:26] <scotepi> have one of thouse at work and the propritary drivers dont suport em
[03:26] <superm1> yeah...
[03:26] <scotepi> how do i go back to default with another reinstall?
[03:27] <superm1> well just dont pick a graphics driver when you do the install
[03:27] <scotepi> but it takes like 30min to install
[03:27] <scotepi> there is a command i can run to remove em
[03:28] <superm1> apt-get remove --purge xorg-driver-fglrx fglrx-amdcccle fglrx-kernel-source
[03:28] <superm1> and then you have to restore the xorg.conf from /etc/X11/
[03:29] <scotepi> what deamon do i restart to restart x?
[03:29] <superm1> gdm
[03:30] <scotepi> w00t, thanks now if you firewire card will work
[03:31] <superm1> huh?
[03:41] <wsuetholz1> Hello I'm having a problem with the live 8.10 cd
[03:41] <superm1> !ask | wsuetholz1
[03:41] <Zinn> wsuetholz1: Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[03:41] <wsuetholz1> It gets stuck trying to start bluetooth
[03:42] <superm1> do you have a bluetooth module at all?
[03:42] <wsuetholz1> No
[03:42] <superm1> do you have anything usb plugged in?
[03:42] <wsuetholz1> Yes
[03:42] <superm1> that might be indicative of something wrong with the usb bus
[03:42] <LonEagle> i've had that problem with my bluetooth module on my regular ubuntu thing
[03:43] <wsuetholz1> Hmmm.  I will remove it.  Its the wintv pvr2
[03:43] <wsuetholz1> I have checked cd and meemory
[03:44] <superm1> wsuetholz, yeah if it boots up without it plugged in you might have something wrong with something somewhere on that bus - either the pvr2, the cable, the port, or something in the software stack
[03:45] <wsuetholz1> Ok, usb unplugged
[03:47] <wsuetholz1> Boots,but have no vga.. Tv only
[03:48] <evanpro> Hi all.
[03:48] <evanpro> I have the world's easiest question, I think.
[03:48] <superm1> wsuetholz1, only plug in one for the install
[03:48] <superm1> plug in the other afterward
[03:48] <evanpro> I want to install a MythBuntu box in my mediacentre.
[03:48] <evanpro> But I don't know what hardware to buy.
[03:49] <superm1> easiest question... haha.
[03:49] <evanpro> Is there a list of recommended boxen to consider for MythBuntu installation?
[03:49] <superm1> yeah on the website there is a link
[03:49] <evanpro> superm1: OK, the easiest question is: "Which is better, MythBuntu or <other MythTV distro here>?"
[03:49] <wsuetholz1> I only have tv in, and its not th correct res
[03:49] <evanpro> Actually I don't know if there's another MythTV distro
[03:50] <foxbuntu> evanpro, there are a few
[03:50] <wsuetholz1> I  dont have vga here
[03:50] <foxbuntu> evanpro, but since superm1 created Mythbuntu what do you think his answer will be?
[03:51] <evanpro> I'm trying to think of an easier question.
[03:51] <evanpro> 'What makes MythBuntu so great -- the MythTV part, or the Ubuntu part?"
[03:52] <foxbuntu> evanpro, its not necessarily either, its more about our advancements in making it easy for new users
[03:52] <tgm4883_laptop> i'd say the Ubuntu part
[03:52] <wsuetholz1> Text console displays
[03:52] <tgm4883_laptop> we gain alot from underlying ubuntu stuff
[03:53] <tgm4883_laptop> but yea, we've done alot to make it easier too
[03:53] <scotepi> idk whats wrong, firewire cap, it can change the channels, but i dont get video.. i get signal 100% | (L__) Partial Lock... this box works fine on max os x
[03:53] <foxbuntu> well Ubuntu is better than Fedora or Knoppix, but if a user is looking at the system in the end state Mythbuntu stand apart because of our advancements, right tgm4883_laptop ?
[03:53] <evanpro> foxbuntu, tgm4883_laptop: I'm joking. Making up softball questions.
[03:53] <evanpro> "How awesome is Mythbuntu. Just normal awesome, or extra-super-awesome?"
[03:54] <evanpro> OK, I have a follow-up to my original easy question.
[03:54] <evanpro> Is there anyone who ships media-centre PCs with MythBuntu pre-installed?
[03:54] <tgm4883_laptop> evanpro, neither.  It's Super-extra-premium-platium-precious-awesome
[03:54] <tgm4883_laptop> oh no
[03:54] <tgm4883_laptop> you opened it up evanpro
[03:55] <tgm4883_laptop> foxbuntu, ^^
[03:55] <foxbuntu> lol
[03:55] <evanpro> dang
[03:55] <foxbuntu> evanpro, yes :)
[03:55] <tgm4883_laptop> foxbuntu, do you know anyone that does?
[03:55] <foxbuntu> www.foxmediasystems.com
[03:55] <evanpro> I have brought the storm!
[03:55] <foxbuntu> not shipping yet but soon I hope
[03:56] <foxbuntu> high end, ready to use, all in one, Mythbuntu systems
[03:56] <evanpro> Yay!
[03:56] <evanpro> I love going to the right channel with my remedial questions.
[03:56] <foxbuntu> lol
[03:57] <foxbuntu> and I love throwing out my name and url for advertising everytime I get the chance
[03:57] <evanpro> Wow! These sound great!
[03:57] <foxbuntu> they will be
[03:58] <foxbuntu> HDMI, DVI, TosLink, 2-4GB Ram, 500G - 2TB HDD, Dual Core 2.5Ghz to Quad Core 2.5Ghz+, Dual NTSC + Dual ATSC tuners
[03:58] <foxbuntu> thats my standalone system
[03:59] <foxbuntu> in a media centre case, not an ugly pc case
[03:59] <foxbuntu> chased him off
[03:59] <foxbuntu> lol
[03:59] <foxbuntu> tgm4883_laptop, the storm has endeds
[04:00] <tritium> foxbuntu: is that your company?
[04:00] <scotepi> how can i get myth to stream, not cache?
[04:00] <scotepi> this is a 1.9 and some reason it cant play a mpeg2ts 1080i
[04:00] <tgm4883_laptop> tritium, yea it is
[04:00] <tgm4883_laptop> scotepi, 1.9 what?
[04:00] <scotepi> it shouldnt have to decode much
[04:00] <evanpro> foxbuntu: I've added your blog feed to my reader, but I'd like to be on your mailing list for when you release the hardware
[04:00] <scotepi> 1.9ghz
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> P4?
[04:01] <evanpro> Seems like the kind of excellent project I'd want to support
[04:01] <scotepi> ph w/ht
[04:01] <scotepi> p4
[04:01] <foxbuntu> tritium, yes
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> AFAIK, your not getting HD with that
[04:01] <tritium> foxbuntu: do you ship to the U.S.?
[04:01] <scotepi> it works i guess i just need a real video card, 7500 doesnt cut it
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> heh
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> tritium, no, he live in the US
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> but only ships to canada
[04:01] <tgm4883_laptop> and some parts of the US
[04:02] <tritium> tgm4883_laptop: oh, the use of "centre" had me convinced to the contrary
[04:02] <foxbuntu> evanpro, sure, pm me your email and I will add it to my system since I havent opened it to the public yet
[04:02] <tgm4883_laptop> like Alaska
[04:02] <tgm4883_laptop> tritium, heh, yea blame those dang europeans in here
[04:02] <tgm4883_laptop> !stab Daviey for being british
[04:02]  * Zinn stabs Daviey for being british with a rusty spork.
[04:02] <tritium> tgm4883_laptop: ah, heh ;)
[04:02] <foxbuntu> tritium, yeah, sorry habit from typing mythbuntu control centre over and over
[04:02] <tritium> foxbuntu: good luck to you!  :)
[04:03] <tgm4883_laptop> scotepi, yea you will need something to take the load off the CPU
[04:03] <foxbuntu> tritium, thanks, its been a long process
[04:03] <tgm4883_laptop> but even then, i'd still wonder
[04:03] <tgm4883_laptop> recommended CPU for HD is 3Ghz
[04:03] <tritium> foxbuntu: I can imagine
[04:03] <tgm4883_laptop> once you get into dual core that changes though
[04:03] <foxbuntu> Dual core 2.2 is minimal
[04:04] <tgm4883_laptop> IIRC, I could almost do HD on an AMD XP 2000+ with xvmc
[04:04] <tgm4883_laptop> almost*
[04:05] <foxbuntu> I just replaced my 3200+ because it wasnt cutting it on HD half the time
[04:05] <tgm4883_laptop> recording should be fine though
[04:05] <tgm4883_laptop> it's playback that will not work
[04:06] <foxbuntu> indeed
[04:12] <wsuetholz1> superm1, thanks for the help
[05:29] <rhpot1991> for the record I do HD pretty well with a athlon 1900+ and XvMC on my slave backend
[05:31] <rhpot1991> 2 problems I have: 1. I can't really deinterlace 1080i content and 2. playing back 1080i content while comflagging gets skippy
[05:58] <Tuv0k> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/17/1421208&from=rss
[16:27] <]Oscar> !help
[16:27] <Zinn> !help Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[18:02] <spoky99> hi all
[18:05] <spoky99> someone know what user launch the command using mythwelcome
[18:05] <spoky99> I don't understand if is my username or the user mythtv
[18:07] <spoky99> I set visudo for both (myusername and mythtv) but grub-set-default work only for myusername
[18:08] <spoky99> and mythwelcome see the computer in idle but the count down restart without poweroff the computer :(
[18:11] <ubuntu-mythtv> Anyone here who can help me out setting up mythbuntu using skystar2 card ?
[18:12] <ubuntu-mythtv> the card works with free to air from the console using szap and mplayer
[18:15] <spoky99> ubuntu-mythtv: mythtv-setup don't see it?
[18:16] <ubuntu-mythtv> yes i have set it up using a howto but somehow in the frontend it doesn't respond when i select it
[18:22] <ubuntu-mythtv> i have set the link to (scan path to astra example file >) channels.conf
[18:25] <ubuntu-mythtv> spoky99..... why is it so 'quiet' here ?
[18:28] <superm1> !ask | ubuntu-mythtv
[18:28] <Zinn> ubuntu-mythtv: Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[18:28] <superm1> that's all :)
[18:29] <superm1> so you might have better luck at the forums if no one answers in a timely fashion here
[18:29] <superm1> !forums | ubuntu-mythtv
[18:29] <Zinn> ubuntu-mythtv: The Mythbuntu forums are located at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=301.  If you aren't getting a timely response here, there are lots of very active individuals there that may be able to help.
[18:30] <md22> hello
[18:31] <md22> what capture card (cable of playing and recording along with hardware encoding) would be good for standard cable  (analog)
[18:32] <ubuntu-mythtv> md22 hauppauge pvr 150/500 works fine and has hardware decoding
[19:00] <MythbuntuGuest50> I am trying to setup my first ever MythTV box. So far so good except my remote does not work (WinTV-GO Plus card). Any ideas where to start to get it working?
[19:02] <Penbrock> !help
[19:02] <Zinn> !help Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[19:15] <superm1> !ask | Penbrock
[19:15] <Zinn> Penbrock: Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[19:15] <superm1> normally
[19:15] <superm1> but it's pretty quiet in here today so
[19:15] <superm1> !forums | Penbrock
[19:15] <Zinn> Penbrock: The Mythbuntu forums are located at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=301.  If you aren't getting a timely response here, there are lots of very active individuals there that may be able to help.
[19:17] <Penbrock> I take it that was all bots :)
[19:18] <superm1> or a really dedicated individual ;)
[19:18] <tgm4883_laptop> yea superm1 and Zinn are the channel bots
[19:18] <Penbrock> tks
[19:18] <tgm4883_laptop> superm1, is the smarter of the two, but just barely
[19:18] <superm1> haha
[19:18] <tgm4883_laptop> his AI keeps malfunctioning
[19:18] <Penbrock> sounds like me lol
[19:19] <superm1> who's to say bots can't have feelings.  i want to be able to love
[19:19] <tgm4883_laptop> I think there is a bug in his decision tree somewhere
[19:19] <tgm4883_laptop> superm1 is a first attempt at adapting the aol love bot
[19:20] <tgm4883_laptop> sometimes it gets over aggressive and we have to reboot it
[19:21] <Penbrock> Now that sounds like what I need for the wife :)
[19:21] <ubuntu-mythtv> :)
[20:20] <ruskie> lo
[20:21] <ruskie> need some help. I have an old dell i8k1 setup with mythbuntu 8.04 I used the builtin FIR/SIR port for lirc but each time I hit most keys I get a double event... so if I hit right to enter a menu it would take me two deep... Anyone know of a solution for this?
[20:36] <ruskie> hmm seems it was the auto generated config... thanks anyway
[22:55] <acr> hello. I'm in the process of figuring out what tuner to get for a mythbuntu box. Ideally, I'd love to get the hauppauge hvr 2250 but everything I've seen says there's no driver for it. Does anybody have an update on if or when it might be a viable option?


[03:33] <nictuku> I wonder if it is ok to ask someone else to review my profile and, obviously unofficially, see if my contributions are enough to support my ubuntu membership application... ?!
[09:26] <highvoltage> @schedule
[09:26] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[09:26] <highvoltage> @schedule UTC
[09:26] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
[09:27] <DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZT
[09:27] <DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZ
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for NZ: 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 06 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu
[09:33] <juliux> @schedule MEZ
[09:33] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
[10:27] <DecIRC>  /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
[10:27] <DecIRC> oops, sorry,
[10:30] <highvoltage> good thing that wasn't nickerv identify :)
[10:30] <nictuku> hehe
[10:31] <bstqc_ostl> Has CC meeting begin?
[10:31] <nictuku> no
[10:31] <bstqc_ostl> Will it begin after 30 minutes?
[10:31] <juliux> yes
[10:32] <bstqc_ostl> nictuku,juliux:thanks!
[10:47] <Cassidy> DecIRC: ping ?
[10:49] <DecIRC> Cassidy, sorry, was in another room (in real life)
[10:50] <Cassidy> DecIRC: pv
[11:00] <Seveas> Kamion, any sign of the rest of the CC yet?
[11:00] <highvoltage> not as far as i'm aware
[11:01] <ploum> Hello DecIRC and all belgians :-)
[11:01] <Cassidy> hi ploum !
[11:01] <DecIRC> Hello ploum and everybody.
[11:02] <bstqc_ostl> hello,everyone!I am Victor.
[11:02] <highvoltage> hi Victor.
[11:02] <lifeless> Hi Victor, I'm robert, and I'm a code junkie
[11:02] <Seveas> c'est un ploum - run while you can
[11:02] <bstqc_ostl> hi:highvoltage,Hi,lifeless
[11:03] <ploum> Seveas: hehe ;-)
[11:03] <nictuku> hi all :-)
[11:03] <bstqc_ostl> nice to meet you all :-)
[11:03] <dholbach> hi bstqc_ostl :-)
[11:04] <nictuku> my friends seems to be sleeping. I wonder if I should remove my name from the agenda hehe
[11:04] <akulah> hello!
[11:04] <akulah> all
[11:04] <bstqc_ostl> hi,dholback.I have waiting for this moment for a long time!
[11:04] <dholbach> bstqc_ostl: I know. I just hope the Community Council turns up soon.
[11:05] <thesaltydog> ciao dholbach !
[11:05] <lifeless> piongs are progressing
[11:07] <lifeless> Kamion: are you trying to reach anyone ?
[11:08] <imtheface> hi all
[11:09] <nictuku> hi imtheface!
[11:09] <zakame> hi all
[11:09] <highvoltage> hi zakame
[11:10] <zakame> hello highvoltage
[11:10] <Seveas> (I am at a lecture right now and am the TA - so I may be unresponsive at times)
[11:12] <lifeless> I'm betting they are confused because of TZ change last weekend. Or something.
[11:13] <nictuku> or maybe because traditionally the meetings are on tuesdays
[11:16] <DanielFaulknor> how many people are missing?
[11:19] <Kamion> shit, sorry, I slept in
[11:19] <highvoltage> shouldn't sabdfl be here? i see he's in -devel.
[11:19] <lifeless> Kamion: you're the only one here so far :{
[11:19] <Seveaz> mornin' Kamion
[11:19] <sabdfl> sorry all
[11:19] <Seveas> mornin' mark
[11:20] <highvoltage> morning sabdfl :)
[11:20] <sabdfl> morning
[11:20] <lifeless> morning
[11:20] <zakame> hello sabdfl
[11:20] <ploum> 'morning ...
[11:21] <imtheface> afternoon here! :)
[11:21] <sabdfl> where are we on the agenda?
[11:21] <Kamion> we aren't
[11:21] <DecIRC> good morning sabdfl
[11:21] <sabdfl> hi kamion, do we have quorum?
[11:21] <lifeless> you have 2 so far
[11:21] <Kamion> sabdfl: you and me so far
[11:21] <lifeless> claire is phoning elmo
[11:21] <sabdfl> elmo's on EST
[11:21] <bstqc_ostl> hello,sabdfl
[11:21] <Kamion> elmo said last time he'd get up if he needed to
[11:22] <sabdfl> he's getting up
[11:22] <Seveas> claire is waking the beast ;)
[11:23] <sabdfl> morning
[11:23] <sabdfl> Kamion: do you want to put the quorum idea forward as a suggestion?
[11:24] <Kamion> the TB consider == 50% to be quorum, whereas we require > 50%
[11:25] <Kamion> perhaps we should move into sync with them for smaller issues so that we don't have so many quorum problems
[11:25] <sabdfl> that's fine by me with CC for memebrships, loco, issues that don't involve a change of policy
[11:25] <sabdfl> elmo?
[11:26] <elmo> umm, I'm not thrilled by the idea - I mean, have we actually cancelled more than one meeting because of quorum issues?
[11:26] <sabdfl> not that i'm aware. seveas?
[11:26] <Seveas> no, but the decisions were delayed
[11:27] <Seveas> there always have been 3 out of 4 votes
[11:27] <elmo> I realise the whole last minute phoning to get quorum thing is less than ideal, but OTOH, I think things like membership sometimes benefit from a wider coverage of CC staff
[11:27] <elmo> IMHO
[11:27] <Seveas> one exception: when a few community members got to vote since sabdfl had to leave
[11:28] <elmo> so, err like, -0.5 from me or something
[11:28] <Seveas> Maybe having an extra CC member will help
[11:28] <Seveas> then 3 out of 5 should be around instead of 3 out of 4
[11:29] <sabdfl> agreed
[11:29] <Kamion> we have had to process memberships and wait for a third member to ack them later, a few times
[11:29] <Kamion> I take elmo's point though
[11:29] <sabdfl> we might grow an AsiaPac council member to help with timezones too, right now we cover americas and europe well
[11:30] <sabdfl> will take that under consideration
[11:30] <Seveas> with my sleeping rhythm I cover all timezones ;)
[11:30] <sabdfl> let's hold off on the quorum == 50% thing for now
[11:30] <sabdfl> and get started on today's agenda
[11:31] <sabdfl> highvoltage: you behind the edubuntu loco idea?
[11:31] <sabdfl> want to tell us a bit about it?
[11:31] <highvoltage> sabdfl: yes
[11:31] <highvoltage> thank you
[11:31] <highvoltage> Hi Ubuntu Community Council
[11:31] <highvoltage> I don't expect a final answer on this now, but I would certainly appreciate your input on this.
[11:31] <highvoltage> We have received a request from an Italian community member (Andrea Veri) to start an Edubuntu loco team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> He's already quite active, especially with regards to Edubuntu Advocacy in his surrounding areas, speaking to different schools about the benefits of Edubuntu in schools.
[11:32] <highvoltage> We don't currently have Edubuntu loco teams, and we're wondering if it's wise to split loco teams into Edubuntu and Ubuntu loco teams, since Italy already has a loco team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> There are good reasons, imo, ot have a seperate team, and to keep it as one group.
[11:32] <highvoltage> What it comes down to, is, having split groups will mean that theres overlap in goals, and possible duplication of work. On the other side, I can understand why someone would want an Edubuntu specific team, that focusses on schools and their needs specifically.
[11:32] <highvoltage> The best solution for this I could think of, is to have them seperate, but still integrated.
[11:32] <highvoltage> So you might have an Edubuntu loco in your country, but it is still part of the bigger loco team. And perhaps there should be some policy to say that the bigger loco should accept the smaller interest-specific groups into the bigger team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> Those are just the lines I thought along, but we would just like to see what's best for the Edubuntu community. Any thoughts on this from CC?
[11:33] <Seveas> How about an edubuntu subteam in the existing locoteam, just like the edubuntu team is a subteam of Ubuntu ?
[11:33] <sabdfl> the advantage is - folks get to focus on the thing they are passionate about
[11:33] <sabdfl> edubuntu may diverge in future, if it gets sufficient mass and theres a need to do so
[11:33] <highvoltage> yep
[11:34] <sabdfl> the disadvantage is there is an opportunity for unhealthy rivalry
[11:34] <highvoltage> some people are very specific in what they'd like to do with schools, and some people more specifically, have a bigger educational focus
[11:34] <elmo> with the increasing number of derivatives, I worry about scalability problems with entirely separate groups - I'd prefer we try subgroups or other solutions in the first instance until we come up with a clear need/use case for entirely separate groups?
[11:34] <sabdfl> say, for example, two guys in a loco team don't get on, one goes off to start the "edubuntu" loco team, but in reality it's just an excuse to demarcate turf
[11:35] <sabdfl> we already do have multiple overlapping loco teams, like country teams and city teams
[11:35] <sabdfl> so i don't actually have a problem with this at all
[11:35] <sabdfl> unless its abused to fuel factionism
[11:35] <highvoltage> perhaps there should be some kind of policy for loco teams, that they have to work together with other, more specific loco teams, at least to a degree (and where there's overlap)
[11:35] <Seveas> sabdfl, indeed. If the teams cooperate, any structure will do.
[11:37] <highvoltage>  if this is the way to go (having an edubuntu loco), should the edubuntu loco team go through the same approval process as an ubuntu loco team?
[11:37] <sabdfl> how about we say yes, and see what happens? i expect we will have kubuntu loco teams soon too
[11:37] <sabdfl> highvoltage: yes, definitely
[11:37] <highvoltage> great.
[11:38] <highvoltage> is CC okay that we do this? we can add the Italian loco team to the list for the next CC meeting then?
[11:38] <sabdfl> elmo: w.r.t. use cases, we do have some guys wanting a team focused on edubuntu already
[11:38] <sabdfl> we should have some sort of "principle of least interference"
[11:39] <sabdfl> which suggests that, unless we have a CoC type issue, community members who want to organise in a particular way should get the freedom to try it
[11:39] <lifeless> Ubuntu's Prime Directive ?
[11:40] <sabdfl> unless its because of social problems, in which case we need to climb in and resolve those
[11:40] <sabdfl> (i.e. the forum forking discussion)
[11:40] <elmo> *shrug*
[11:40] <elmo> ok
[11:40] <Seveas> lifeless, ubuntu's prime directive is the CoC
[11:41] <lifeless> Seveas: I was being humourous, sorry.
[11:41] <Kamion> I have the same scalability issues as elmo for the record; Edubuntu does seem to have a good use case for being separate, but I can't see a good use case for Kubuntu in the same way
[11:41] <highvoltage> lifeless: and that counts for edubuntu, kubuntu, and xubuntu as well
[11:41] <lifeless> Seveas: 'principle of non interference'
[11:41] <Kamion> in that Edubuntu is going out and talking to a very very different set of people
[11:41] <highvoltage> Kamion: i agree with you there.
[11:41] <Kamion> whereas Kubuntu is just "people who like KDE", which is a whole lot more nebulous
[11:41] <Kamion> likewise Xubuntu
[11:42] <zakame> hmm increasing granularity
[11:42] <sabdfl> people do get quite passionate about the whole kde / gnome thing, though :-)
[11:42] <highvoltage> kubuntu, xubuntu and ubuntu are really pretty much the same in terms of users, target market, etc. while edubuntu has some very distinct differences there.
[11:42] <sabdfl> i think people will generally be more energetic if they feel they can associate with the parts of the "ubuntu project" which most closely aligns with their own interests
[11:43] <Seveas> sabdfl, definitely
[11:43] <elmo> sabdfl: right, but unless the teams cooperate, there's going to be a lot of duplicated/wasted effort
[11:43] <elmo> (but OTOH, I get your non-interference thing, so I'm just saying)
[11:43] <elmo> I mean there's a reason ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu etc. all share the same archive
[11:43] <highvoltage> elmo: couldn't that be fixed on policy level, so that teams know they're not supposed to "compete"?
[11:44] <sabdfl> elmo: how about we make it clear that we are all in this together and specialisation is not the same as competition?
[11:44] <Seveas> sabdfl, sounds like a nice amendment for the CoC
[11:44] <sabdfl> i think having a strong edubuntu team in a city is a big help to the ubuntu loco team, for example
[11:44] <elmo> sure, that'd be good
[11:45] <sabdfl> as long as they don't compete and trashtalk one another
[11:45] <highvoltage> members who do that should be dismissed, imho
[11:45] <sabdfl> i can think of one bad scenario, say, where a school district wants to deploy ubuntu, and is looking for contractors, and members of those teams start competing for the work
[11:46] <sabdfl> talking down ubuntu / edubuntu as a proxy for competing for the funding
[11:46] <thesaltydog> one solution could be to consider edubuntu loco a branch of the ubuntu LoCoTeam..
[11:46] <sabdfl> could equally well happen with kubuntu
[11:46] <highvoltage> sabdfl: an answer to that might be, that they should start another team for commercial work, and that the loco group is for community work. or does that go against how things are currently set up?
[11:47] <sabdfl> ultimately, it's the underlying people and how they feel that matter
[11:47] <sabdfl> let's deal with those sorts of issues when they arise, and just resolve to say we expect the highest standard of collaboration between all ubuntu loco teams, regardless of their particular focus, whether its regional, or vertical
[11:48] <sabdfl> is there an obvious loco team guidelines page we could amend to that effect?
[11:48] <highvoltage> that sounds good. could almost be copied and pasted in CoC just as you wrote it there :)
[11:48] <Seveas> sabdfl, LocoTeamRunning perhaps
[11:49] <Kamion> urk, hope we don't have to amend the CoC again. :)
[11:50] <highvoltage> there's https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeamHowto and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeams, which might benefit from the ammendment
[11:50] <Seveas> Kamion, in that case: skip 1.0.1 and jump to 1.1 immediately with these amendments
[11:50] <elmo> Kamion: oh, I can fix that
[11:50] <Kamion> I sent a copy to launchpad@ a while ago if you want to fish it out of there
[11:51] <lifeless> Kamion: doh. I forgot there was a 1.0.1, I've still only signed 1.0.
[11:51] <elmo> yeah, I still have it ticked in my launchpad mail folder in case it got lost
[11:51] <Kamion> lifeless: it's just typographical corrections, don't worry about it
[11:51] <lifeless> Kamion: ok.
[11:52] <Kamion> ok, are we done with this agenda point?
[11:52] <Kamion> if so, let's move on to the Belgian locoteam
[11:53] <ploum> Hello :-)
[11:53] <highvoltage> from my side, I'm okay with it. I will ask Andrea to add the edubuntu-loco-it team agenda item to the next CC meeting.
[11:53] <ploum> (ok belgians, let's go to sing our song !)
[11:53] <Cassidy> hi :)
[11:53] <Cassidy> ploum: the one about bear and frites ?
[11:53] <DecIRC> hi
[11:53] <Cassidy> beer ;)
[11:53] <Seveas> hello belgian team
[11:53] <JanC> hi
[11:54] <sabdfl> hey guys
[11:54] <ploum> So we are a small country with many differents languages
[11:54] <ploum> But a big team :-)
[11:54] <ploum> We have worked on a Ubuntu-be guideline for quite some weeks : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam
[11:55] <ploum> Then we had a meeting at FOSDEM (with jdub)
[11:55] <ploum> We want to promote Ubuntu locally, not to create yet another forum-wiki-support website
[11:56] <ploum> Our first big goal is a very commercial looking website for the Dapper release and a Dapper party where we will invite the community and the press
[11:57] <ploum> ATM, we have a mailing list with 69 members, and we are speaking a mix of french-dutch-english all the time
[11:58] <ploum> In fact, we also have the secret goal to show that Belgian people can still do thing together, regardless of their language
[11:58] <ploum> (this is a big problem in Belgium)
[11:58] <elmo> (ploum: btw, it's not relevant to this process, but I saw some (less than constructive) criticism of the Dutch in your ubuntu-be announce post - you might want to get a native speaker to look over any future multi-lingual posts?)
[11:59] <Kamion> (ok, in fact I do need to take my laptop down for disassembly now. I'll still be following along, just a little more slowly
[11:59] <Kamion> )
[12:00] <ploum> elmo: ?  I don't remember that
[12:00] <sabdfl> ok, thanks ploum
[12:00] <JanC> elmo: you mean on ubunu-announce ?
[12:00] <sabdfl> anything we can do to help out at this stage?
[12:00] <ploum> sabdfl: yes
[12:00] <sabdfl> go ahead
[12:00] <ploum> In order to work on the website and promotionnal flyer, we want to be sure we can use ubuntu-be.org
[12:00] <ploum> http://ubuntu.carolinux.be/ : the first draft of the website we are working on (content is mostly in french I think)
[12:02] <Seveas> quite empty draft ;)
[12:03] <ploum> Seveas: yes, we have not yet putted the content in the website..
[12:03] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:03] <sabdfl> i've no problem with ubuntu-be.org.
[12:03] <ploum> and we have to translate all
[12:03] <DecIRC> Seveas, it is less empty if you choose "Je parle Franais" in place of "I speak English"
[12:03] <sabdfl> ploum: probably best to be conservative with the number of pages, since everything has to happen three times
[12:03] <Seveas> you can pull dutch translations from ubuntu-nl.org ;)
[12:04] <ploum> sabdfl: that's indeed our goal. (and people don't read much more thant 4 pages anyway)
[12:04] <sabdfl> elmo: what's the process for pointing an ubuntu-xx.org domain at a loco server?
[12:04] <JanC> I will look at the translations in Dutch  ;-)
[12:04] <elmo> sabdfl: it's still managed by smurfix
[12:04] <elmo> well the DNS
[12:04] <elmo> the loco servers are done by heno
[12:04] <sabdfl> ok, ploum, ask smurfix to point at your server, and off you go
[12:04] <elmo> err, kind of
[12:05] <sabdfl> anything else, or can we get to the members?
[12:05] <ploum> thanks sabdfl :-)
[12:05] <DecIRC> dears, I'm the technical responsible for the hosting of this site on my dedicated server. So you can either point the A record to the ip of the server of define it as primary dns
[12:05] <sabdfl> DecIRC: chat with smurfix
[12:05] <ploum> sabdfl: thanks for your time.
[12:05] <sabdfl> ok, members, members, members!
[12:06] <Cassidy> thanks for your support guys !
[12:06] <dholbach> hahaha :)
[12:06] <lifeless> throw a chair!
[12:06] <DecIRC> sabdfl, and others, thanks for ... everything :)
[12:06] <sabdfl> yer welcome
[12:06] <sabdfl> lifeless: you're up
[12:06] <lifeless> hiya
[12:06] <JanC> lifeless: throwing chairs at people is against the CoC  ;)
[12:06] <elmo> -2
[12:07] <lifeless> so, I'd like to become a MOTU
[12:07] <elmo> oh wait, is it not time to vote for lifeless yet? ;-)
[12:07] <lifeless> elmo: thanks!
[12:07] <Simira> haha, isn't lifeless a member yet?
[12:07] <highvoltage> JanC: unless it's a chaire made out of cake!
[12:07] <lifeless> I've setup all the wiki pages and documentation the newmembers process requests
[12:07] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins
[12:08] <lifeless> and I've been hanging out and helping in #ubuntu-motu from nearly when it started
[12:09] <ajmitch> & he's been quite helpful there too
[12:09] <lifeless> sorry for the lag there, finding my description  to paste
[12:09] <lifeless> I work for Canonical coordinating the combination of Bazaar-NG and Launchpad (which we hope will provide a fantastic feedback loop to any community using Bazaar-NG), and am a Quality-Czar - I rove between Bazaar-NG, Launchpad and Ubuntu providing input (and Code!), aiming to make it easier to make high quality creations across all our efforts.
[12:09] <sivang> sabdfl: ah ah ah!
[12:09] <sabdfl> lifeless: do you think your testing stuff will land in the distro, or be more LP-ish?
[12:09] <lifeless> sabdfl: I want to do some work on the deb testing project
[12:09] <sabdfl> ok
[12:09] <lifeless> I think its very under-potential at the moment
[12:10] <sabdfl> can you point to some ubuntu-specific contributions you've made over the past year or two?
[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: referring to automating testing framework by Ian?
[12:10] <lifeless> sivang: yes
[12:10] <sabdfl> (fwiw folks, Robert Collins was is the longest-running Canonical dude)
[12:10] <sabdfl> was is
[12:10] <sabdfl> nice :-)
[12:10] <lifeless> sabdfl: sure. more recently - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pornview/+bug/2397
[12:10] <lifeless> a patch for pornview
[12:10] <elmo> ...
[12:10] <sabdfl> can't believe you took that bait :-)
[12:10] <lifeless> :)
[12:11] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
[12:11] <lifeless> hey, a chance to get porn in the meeting log ?
[12:11] <dholbach> . o O { based on the pornview patch }
[12:11] <sivang> heh
[12:11] <jsgotangco> my hero!
[12:11] <sabdfl> dholbach: i feel every bug
[12:11] <dholbach> haha :-)
[12:11] <Kamion> I've got no problem with lifeless obviously, particularly if it gets more people paying attention to autotesting
[12:12] <sabdfl> ok, 2/3
[12:12] <Kamion> he's made plenty of contributions on/off over the years
[12:12] <elmo> well, lifeless was going to be +2 from me, but he loses a point for wasting time on pornview.  so +1
[12:12] <sabdfl> 4/3 then :-)
[12:12] <lifeless> thanks guys!
[12:13] <nictuku> congratulations :-)
[12:13] <sabdfl> elmo: don't foist your taste for ascii art on us here
[12:13] <sabdfl> "britney"
[12:13] <ogra> congrats lifeless :)
[12:13] <sivang> congrets lifeless !
[12:13] <sabdfl> nictuku: i think you're up next
[12:14] <freeflying> lifeless: congrats
[12:14] <nictuku> thank you.
[12:14] <nictuku> i'm afraid none of my friends showed up - only MarioMeyer (Meyer) but he seems to be asleep (07:00AM here), but i'll try it anyway ;-).
[12:14] <nictuku> I'm Yves Junqueira, a 24 years old Python hacker. I live in Braslia, Brazil, and work a sysadmin and python developer in a Federal Government Ministry, although being graduated in International Relations. I've founded #ubuntu-br in circa december/2004 and I code and package some cool software: nwu - Network Wide Updates - and python-sysinfo. Nwu is based on a spec by mvo. Since january/2005 I've been  dedicating many daily hours of free tim
[12:14] <nictuku> e to the project so we can have a tool similar to RedHat's RHN and Microsoft's SUS, but GPL. I administer a few dozen servers and I know how helpful a software that handles packages installation and upgrades automatically could be. With the help of MarioMeyer, a good friend, I'm also working on packaging nwu and the required python-sysinfo and they are both in revu.  The history of changes is linked in the profile. These have been months of t
[12:14] <nictuku> ruly hard work and lots of love for Ubuntu :-).Besides wanting to work even harder on nwu - specially making a cool PyGTK interface -, I want to keep helping the Ubuntu-BR LoCoTeam any way I can, either contributing to the planet or helping users on the IRC channel. If I'm honored with the Ubuntu Member status, though, my voice will be lowder I'll be able to spread even more ubuntu love (and installations) to the government agencies, in which
[12:14] <nictuku>  Ubuntu already has a great market share. Thanks :-)
[12:15] <sabdfl> wow, that's a great contribution!
[12:15] <sabdfl> what do you think of the revu process?
[12:16] <sabdfl> how could we make it better?
[12:16] <nictuku> thank you. I think it's great already, although maybe if non-motu could also write unofficial reviewes, that would be great.
[12:17] <sabdfl> we are keen to extend revu to main as well, in dapper+1 timeframe
[12:17] <nictuku> I really would like to become a MOTU sometime, by the way.
[12:17] <dholbach> nictuku: that's great to hear.
[12:17] <nictuku> dholbach, thanks
[12:18] <dholbach> i see, you're hanging around in #ubuntu-motu already. :-)
[12:18] <ogra> what will python-sysinfo gain us over hal and its hardware data ? is there added value a later hwdb client ycould use ?
[12:18] <sivang> sabdfl: for every package or just new packages ?
[12:19] <nictuku> dholbach, yes, despite in my time zone and the time I have to be on IRC doesn't match with most european members :-(
[12:19] <sabdfl> ok  +1 for Yves from me, based on sustained work on nwu at https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/timeline?daysback=180
[12:19] <sabdfl> sivang: every package
[12:19] <sabdfl> to make community contributions to main smoother
[12:19] <sabdfl> but ore on that another time
[12:20] <Seveas> sabdfl, cool
[12:20] <sabdfl> will be, i think :-)
[12:20] <nictuku> hal wouldn't provide all data we need. It's abstraction for the packaging system, not only for hardware.
[12:20] <sivang> sabdfl: nice
[12:20] <Kamion> +1 on nictuku based on plenty of nwu work etc. and a good thoughtful wiki page
[12:20] <Seveas> nictuku, there are many ubuntu-br members who already applied for membership. Why did you wait so long?
[12:20] <ogra> nictuku, so could hwdb benefit from it ?
[12:21] <nictuku> Seveas, I really didn't know if my contributions  was relevant.. I don't do much translation and bug report (low karma on LP, you see..)
[12:21] <ogra> (it needs more data than hal offers actually, i'd love to have one unique HW info backend :) )
[12:22] <nictuku> ogra, it's more like the opposite. python-sysinfo is dumb, it's more like a parser.
[12:22] <ogra> ah
[12:22] <nictuku> but it does aggregates a lot of information from different sources
[12:22] <elmo> ack
[12:22] <sabdfl> ok! welcome aboard
[12:22] <nictuku> currently it uses lshw to collect hardware info, for example.
[12:22] <nictuku> :-)
[12:22] <Seveas> nictuku, congratz!
[12:22] <sladen> the karma system could benefit on 'external plugins'  (eg. mailing posts to lists.ubuntu.com, or posts on ubuntoforums.org)
[12:22] <sabdfl> approved in lp
[12:23] <nictuku> you guys have no idea how happy I am. Thank you very much!
[12:23] <sabdfl> sladen: +1
[12:23] <ogra> ah :) cool
[12:23] <ogra> i'll look at it once the package is in :)
[12:23] <sabdfl> would be very useful to get mailman and forums into the karma infrastructure
[12:23] <sabdfl> we'll get uploads, reviews etc in due course too
[12:23] <ogra> nictuku, congrats btw :)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: trivial to do for mailman, at least.
[12:23] <Seveas> eyequeue seems to be missing
[12:23] <dholbach> congratulations nictuku
[12:24] <nictuku> even then my karma would still be low, as I'm basically a "upstream coder".
[12:24] <elmo> yes, but not by integrating into mailman
[12:24] <sabdfl> eyequeue's not around
[12:24] <Seveas> imtheface is
[12:24] <elmo> you'd do it like ud-echelon, by subscribing to the lists
[12:24] <Mithrandir> as long as you have a way to guesstimate from poster to launchpad id.
[12:24] <nictuku> Seveas, ogra, dholbacht hank you  :-)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> elmo: oh, why?
[12:24] <elmo> Mithrandir: because I don't want lists.u.c tied to LP
[12:24] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: email, mostly
[12:24] <elmo> and more relevantly because there's no need to
[12:24] <sabdfl> ud-echelon?
[12:24] <Mithrandir> elmo: well, that's a possibility, too.
[12:25] <elmo> sabdfl: debian's userdir-ldap has an echelon system that keeps track of "last seen" for Debian developers by subscribing to Debian  lists and matching From line's to DDs and checking signatures
[12:25] <Mithrandir> elmo: I was thinking generating a state file which lp grabbed daily or something.
[12:25] <sabdfl> elmo: we do want to make it easy to create a mailing list for an LP team
[12:25] <sabdfl> ah, right
[12:25] <nictuku> sabdfl, thank you for being supportive about my small contributions :-)
[12:25] <sabdfl> nice name :-)
[12:25] <Seveas> can we move on to imtheface ?
[12:26] <elmo> sorry, yes, this isn't CC-relevant
[12:26] <Seveas> ok, imtheface please give us your 3-liner
[12:26] <imtheface> born as andy apdhani in jakarta, indonesia *and still there*. i'm bachelor in economics, as well as a huge fan of Free Software and also a dreamer! :)
[12:26] <imtheface> wiki: [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/imtheface ]  - lp: [ https://launchpad.net/people/imtheface ]  - in ubuntu mostly i contribute on translation, and provide support for local user on indonesian milist and forum.
[12:26] <imtheface> in future i would like to help on documentation especially by making it avalaible in local language. last is to translate more apps & doc into indonesian.
[12:26] <imtheface> okay done
[12:27] <jsgotangco> its nice to see a fellow south east asian active :)
[12:27] <imtheface> thx u!
[12:28] <sabdfl> great translation work, andy
[12:29] <imtheface> savdfl: still a lot more to translate :)
[12:29] <jsgotangco> have you worked with Belutz?
[12:29] <jsgotangco> (Andi Darmawan)
[12:29] <sabdfl> one string at a time, we will shortly add a way to prioritise the different templates in dapper
[12:29] <imtheface> yes ... mainly we talk in milist
[12:30] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for imtheface on the basis of lots of translation suggestions
[12:31] <imtheface> sabdfl: kewl
[12:31] <elmo> ack from me too
[12:32] <sabdfl> Kamion, do you have a keyboard at this point?
[12:32] <Kamion> yeah, imtheface +1, plenty of translation work and apparently localised documentation too although I can't read it :)
[12:32] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard andy!
[12:32] <nictuku> imtheface, congrats!!
[12:32] <imtheface> Kamion: put it on lp then! :)
[12:32] <imtheface> thx u all
[12:33] <sabdfl> imtheface: did you request to join ubuntumembers in LP?
[12:33] <imtheface> sabdfl: no yet!
[12:33] <sabdfl> could you do that and ping me quickly, please?
[12:33] <jsgotangco> imtheface: welcome
[12:34] <imtheface> jsgotangco: thx u again
[12:34] <sabdfl> we should have an efficient way to mail "all the people waiting to join ubuntumembers"
[12:34] <sabdfl> note to self
[12:35] <sabdfl> ok, david symons
[12:35] <bimberi> hi all - i'll try a single paste...
[12:35] <bimberi> I'm an software-engineer/IT-manager from Canberra Australia.  Ubuntu user since November 2004.  I've been helping people regularly on IRC (initially #ubuntu, later #kubuntu and #edubuntu also) since June 2005 averaging a couple of hours per day.
[12:35] <bimberi> Other contributions: ubotu factoid editing, wikipage editing, laptop testing, testing for developers who've sought volunteers, bug reporting, spurious webpage reporting, active in the Australian LocoTeam and successfully submitting a recipe for the Official Ubuntu Book.
[12:35] <bimberi> I see availability of local support as important to IT managers considering the Ubuntu alternative - so I'm lobbying the company I contract through to become an Ubuntu Support Provider.  Other plans are to get into bug triage (an area of great need I perceive), participate in Ubuntu marketing/advocacy fora, and continue the above.  Cheers!
[12:36] <Seveas> \o/ from me for #ubuntu support - not the most active person but smart and doing good contributions
[12:36] <sabdfl> bimberi: can you comment on the current state of #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu?
[12:36] <bimberi> Seveas: thanks
[12:37] <Seveas> sabdfl, (on a reated node: bans in several channels are now tracked, see http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/bantracker )
[12:37] <sabdfl> Seveas: that's excellent - thanks!
[12:37] <sabdfl> link's busted though
[12:37] <Seveas> ehrm.. s/bantracker/bans.cgi/
[12:38] <nictuku> the link in the main page to the ban tracker is borked too
[12:38] <bimberi> sabdfl: #ubuntu is, of course, so busy - frantic at times.  It works very well IMO.  #kubuntu and #edubuntu are quieter
[12:38] <ogra> Seveas, oh, a keylogger to get you our LP passwords ? *G*
[12:39] <Seveas> ogra, lp_auth code can be viewed online
[12:39] <ogra> yes, #edubuntu gets very specific questions :)
[12:39] <Seveas> http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/lp_auth.py
[12:39] <ogra> Seveas, i wasnt serious :)
[12:40] <Seveas> ogra, I am - I know this question will come up sooner or later
[12:40] <bimberi> sabdfl: the op coverage in #ubuntu has improved in recent times with the recent additions
[12:40] <Seveas> bimberi, do you think it's good enough ?
[12:41] <bimberi> Seveas: yes i do :)
[12:41] <sabdfl> bimberi: what's your biggest "wishlist" item for ubuntu?
[12:42] <bimberi> sabdfl: to see it break though the mind-barriers of IT Managers as a windows replacement
[12:42] <sabdfl> and any suggestions as to the top things we need to do to make that happen?
[12:44] <bimberi> sabdfl: marketing to existing IT Service providers to identify the existing FOSS-capable resources in their midst and foster them into a team capable of providing an excellent service
[12:45] <sabdfl> sounds good, yes
[12:45] <sabdfl> +1 for bimberi from me, on the back of sustained contributions to support in #ubuntu
[12:45] <sabdfl> bimberi: have you seen the LP support tracker?
[12:45] <bimberi> sabdfl: from my point of view ubuntu has made leaps and bounds with addressing little things that annoyed people FOSS - such as copy and paste between apps.  Continuing to do that to do...
[12:46] <bimberi> sabdfl: no
[12:47] <dholbach> bimberi: http://launchpad.net/support
[12:47] <sabdfl> it's in very early stages, but will become the main channel for tracking support requests
[12:47] <sabdfl> links into the bugtracker where needed etc
[12:47] <bimberi> Continuing to focus on those little things too stop people dismissing it quickly (as used to occur when I demonstrated other distros)
[12:47] <sabdfl> fyi
[12:47] <sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
[12:47] <Kamion> bimberi +1 for #ubuntu work and Australian team work
[12:47] <elmo> ack
[12:48] <bimberi> sabdfl: ah, yes  thankyou :)
[12:48] <bimberi> thankyou all :-))
[12:48] <Kamion> bimberi: little things> definitely yeah - there's just so many of them :-)
[12:49] <bimberi> Kamion: haha - and Launchpad makes it so easy to report them :-)
[12:49] <sabdfl> ok, updated in LP
[12:50] <Kamion> ok, any other business?
[12:50] <bimberi> sabdfl: cheers :)
[12:50] <Seveas> yes
[12:50] <sabdfl> when shall we n meet again?
[12:50] <Seveas> bstqc_ostl, aka victor39 is around today
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> Hello,everyone.I am Victor.My irc name is bstqc_ostl.
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> my wiki page is:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Victor39
[12:50] <Kamion> ah, ok, one more
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> I am a software testing engineer in Beijing Software Testing Center.Beijing Software Testing  Center is a professional third-part company .
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> I and my colleagues have done an all-sided testing on ubuntu-5.04 and dapper flight2.Our  testing includes functionality testing,setup testing,compatibility testing and performance  testing.I filed all the bug fond into bugzilla and malone.And I have published our testing  report to community.
[12:51] <sabdfl> hi victor!
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> I have tested for flight2 on dell latitude d600.And I am the contact of dell latitude d600  laptop testing in LaptopTestingTeam.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellLatitudeD600
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> hi,sabdfl
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> In January and February,2006,we asist Canonical to visit Beijing as a part of Ubuntu Asia  Business Tour.
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> Now we are testing dapper for the release in June.
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> Thanks!
[12:51] <sabdfl> +1 from me for victor on the basis of excellent help on ABT and ongoing testing feedback and support
[12:52] <elmo> sabdfl: you just +1'ed him 'cos he has a photo of you on his wikipage, didn't you
[12:52] <Seveas> I've been talking to victor before and \o/ from for his enthousiasm
[12:52] <jsgotangco> haha
[12:52] <bstqc_ostl> thank you,sabdfl.
[12:52] <sabdfl> elmo: you got it in one
[12:52] <sabdfl> elmo: this of course is one advantage from not running away when people point cameras at one
[12:52] <dholbach> yeah, I was amazed by the work he did and he and I will sit together for integrating the OSTL test plans in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
[12:52] <Kamion> it will get easier once they're distilled into bug reports in malone
[12:53] <jsgotangco> yeah the last test was with a dapper milestone though that i got to host
[12:53] <dholbach> Kamion: the last bunch of defect reports were filed into malone/bugzilla
[12:53] <Kamion> I've got no problem with Victor though, sustained lab testing is excellent and sorely needed
[12:53] <Kamion> dholbach: ah, good
[12:54] <elmo> yeah, ack from me too
[12:54] <Seveas> bstqc_ostl, congratz !
[12:54] <sabdfl> kamion, that a +1?
[12:54] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes
[12:54] <bstqc_ostl> thanks, dholbach.thanks,all!
[12:54] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboart victor
[12:55] <freeflying> bstqc_ostl: congrats
[12:55] <bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:cheers!
[12:55] <dholbach> that's excellent news, bstqc_ostl :-)
[12:55] <sabdfl> very welcome indeed
[12:55] <sabdfl> ok, when do we want to meet again?
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> dholbach: :)
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> can I get a mail address named bstqc_ostl@ubuntu.com?Because we are a team  working for ubuntu.Besides me,there are other members in our open source testing lab.I am  only a representative.
[12:56] <nictuku> congrats bstqc_ostl :-)
[12:56] <Seveas> sabdfl, in 2 weeks, preferably on a different time
[12:56] <sabdfl> april 17 is easter monday
[12:56] <Seveas> (I'm actually giving a class now)
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> ths,nicuku!
[12:56] <sabdfl> bstqc_ostl: i think you automatically get your LP preferred email  @ubuntu.com
[12:57] <sabdfl> for some value of automatic, after elmo reviews it
[12:57] <ogra> why is the CC meeting on a monday anyway ?
[12:57] <Simira> I knew something was wrong! It's monday today
[12:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:57] <Seveas> ogra, to fit some peoples schedule
[12:57] <ogra> i thought that was an exception
[12:57] <Simira> sabdfl: who not the 18th?
[12:57] <jsgotangco> i blinked twice when i saw activity
[12:57] <bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:I see.
[12:57] <sabdfl> i'm on the road to Rhodes tomorrow
[12:57] <Seveas> proposal: april 18, 22:00 UTC?
[12:57] <sabdfl> i could do the 18th
[12:58] <Kamion> I'm on holiday on the 18th
[12:58] <sabdfl> would prefer a little earlier, since DST kicked in
[12:58] <ogra> ++
[12:58] <ogra> 20:00 UTC ?
[12:58] <sabdfl> 21:00 is 22:00 local in the UK
[12:58] <Seveas> +1 on 21:00
[12:58] <sabdfl> elmo? mako should be able to make either
[12:59] <sabdfl> Kamion: np, enjoy the holiday
[12:59] <elmo> I can make that
[12:59] <sabdfl> ok, 21:00 UTC it is
[12:59] <Kamion> it's my stepson's birthday, I missed it last year due to UDU so I'm not missing it this year ;-)
[01:00] <Seveas> ok, see you all in 2 weeks!
[01:00] <jsgotangco> nice meeting
[01:00] <Seveas> I'll poke robitaille to put the meeting on the fridge
[01:00] <sabdfl> updated the agenda
[01:01] <sabdfl> ok, thanks everybody
[01:01] <sabdfl> sorry for waking you up elmo!
[01:01] <nictuku> any problem if I rename my LP profile id now?
[01:02] <sabdfl> nictuku: not unless it clashes
[01:02] <nictuku> ok
[01:31] <eyequeue> ?


[06:20] <amurray> am just watching https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/fosdem/2019/UD2.218A/usb_borne_attacks.mp4 from FOSDEM over the weekend - would be good to sync (desktop and security teams) on what the plans on in regards to this for 20.04 etc
[06:21] <amurray> s/on/are/
[08:47] <willcooke> morning
[08:59] <jibel> good morning willcooke
[09:02] <willcooke> hi jibel, good FOSDEM?
[09:03] <willcooke> jibel, love the burger receipt :)
[09:03] <jibel> willcooke, Yes, it was excellent, very good sessions
[09:03] <jibel> :)
[09:03] <jibel> the sessions were better than the burgers actually
[09:04] <willcooke> ha
[09:05] <Laney> yo
[09:05] <willcooke> hi Laney
[09:06] <Laney> hey willcooke
[09:06] <Laney> what's up
[09:08] <marcustomlinson> morning all, happy monday \o/
[09:08] <seb128> it's monday, good morning desktopers!
[09:10] <andyrock> morning all!
[09:11] <willcooke> hi seb128 andyrock
[09:14] <Laney> hey marcustomlinson seb128 andyrock
[09:14] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:14] <marcustomlinson> very good thanks (it snowed this weekend :D), yourself?
[09:15] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[09:15] <willcooke> hi oSoMoN marcustomlinson
[09:16] <Trevinho> hey guys
[09:16] <oSoMoN> hey willcooke, Trevinho
[09:16] <willcooke> o/ Trevinho
[09:16] <Trevinho> hi willcooke and oSoMoN!
[09:16] <seb128> hey oSoMoN, trevinho, willcooke, Laney, andyrock, marcustomlinson
[09:17] <seb128> oSoMoN, did you make it back without issue?
[09:17] <Trevinho> we can make a greetings chain :)
[09:17] <Laney> yeah I'm alright, quite tired this morning, basically got back from fosdem went to bed and now i'm here
[09:17] <Laney> moin Trevinho
[09:18] <seb128> I had croissant au chocolat this morning, it's the best!
[09:19] <amurray> willcooke: hey, I asked earlier but you weren't online yet - I noticed some of the GNOME folks presented about USBGuard integration with GNOME at FOSDEM - would be good to sync re plans for this and see if / how the security team can help
[09:19] <andyrock> > croissant au nutella
[09:19] <andyrock> FTFY
[09:20] <willcooke> amurray, hi! Yeah, I'll add it to the list in Malta.  I don't know much about the workings of it though.  But I'm sure we can work it out
[09:20] <amurray> willcooke: awesome - thanks
[09:20] <seb128> andyrock, that's not quite the same
[09:21] <seb128> willcooke, amurray, https://wiki.gnome.org/Internships/2018/Projects/USB-Protection
[09:21] <oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, the journey was uneventful and I got home at 9:30pm
[09:21] <oSoMoN> seb128, how about you?
[09:22] <seb128> oSoMoN, it was fine, train is great. sncf had issues and the TGV I need to take to finish the trip was not there so I had to wait another half an hour for my connection, I arrived around 7:30pm which was ok
[09:23] <amurray> seb128 willcooke: I assume there will be some bits to MIR etc as part of this, plus would also be good to just review the policy and what we would set as default etc plus to know what upstreams timeframe is and whether this is a candidate for 20.04 etc
[09:23] <oSoMoN> is croissant au chocolat a thing? in my times we called it pain au chocolat, or is that a hybrid?
[09:23] <seb128> oSoMoN, come on, don't do your Didier!
[09:24] <oSoMoN> ah, I felt I had to, since Didier didn't react :)
[09:25] <oSoMoN> he's offline, that explains it
[09:25] <willcooke> amurray, ack, we can take a look.  Looks like it's
[09:25] <willcooke> still early days, but I will review that FOSDEM session
[09:25] <didrocks> good morning from the train!
[09:26] <didrocks> livecd-rootfs migrated, nice
[09:26] <willcooke> hey didrocks
[09:26] <seb128> speaking of didrocks
[09:27] <seb128> hey didrocks
[09:27] <willcooke> didrocks, seb128 said that you like Pain au Chocolat
[09:27] <willcooke> XD
[09:28]  * seb128 slaps willcooke with an old trout
[09:29] <marcustomlinson> https://media.giphy.com/media/wv216pxQtF3Ww/giphy.gif
[09:33] <seb128> willcooke, amurray, https://ryuzakikk.github.io/ has the details and apparently the guy just opened MRs on GNOME component so good cycle is probably good timing to look at that, I might already open MIRs this cycle to have an head start
[09:33] <willcooke> seb128, ace!
[09:33] <amurray> seb128: cheers - thanks for that
[09:33] <seb128> np!
[09:35] <willcooke> seb128, you said you had problems with conn.check on the train?  Did you find bugs?
[09:40] <seb128> willcooke, turned out that a systemctl restart NetworkManager was not enough to get the new 1.15 version fully in place, it started working after a reboot :/
[09:40] <seb128> upstream pointed a fix though to better deal with some weird cases, i need to check if we need that one backported to other series
[09:49] <willcooke> kk
[09:49] <willcooke> thx
[09:56] <didrocks> flaky train network
[09:57]  * Laney glues didrocks back together
[11:27] <willcooke> clobrano, hey!  I'm trying the Communitheme Dark theme for the first time in a long time, it's great!!! thanks to you guys
[11:28] <willcooke> the snap that is, hence the Communitheme
[11:43] <clobrano> willcooke: :D I'm glad you like it!
[11:44] <clobrano> It's still less mature than the light theme, so I'd be happy if you can find the time to report any problem
[11:58] <willcooke> clobrano, will do :)
[13:37] <didrocks> and back home!
[13:43] <seb128> wb didrocks!
[13:47] <didrocks> thx ;)
[14:01] <jibel> didrocks, hey, how was the trip?
[14:02] <jibel> didrocks, I had a look at pycallgraph2 and it looks okay for what we want to do. I fixed the examples and it can generate some fairly large call charts.
[14:02] <didrocks> jibel: uneventful, only 10 minutes late, which is ok ;)
[14:03] <didrocks> jibel: oh nice, did you get it to run on subiquity without any issue?
[14:03] <didrocks> remember it was working on some simple files
[14:03] <didrocks> but not subiquity for $strange_reasons
[14:03] <jibel> I got 8€ for my cancelled train, you cannot even buy a sandwich while you wait for next train :/
[14:03] <didrocks> (you installed the pip version as well, and had to change the import?)
[14:04] <didrocks> jibel: a cookie + a coke at most ;)
[14:04] <jibel> didrocks, no I run from trunk
[14:04] <didrocks> "thx SNCF"
[14:04] <jibel> the pip version is buggy
[14:04] <didrocks> ohhhh
[14:04] <didrocks> that's why then
[14:04] <didrocks> we should have started with that, indeed
[14:04]  * didrocks trusted too much "released versions"
[14:04] <jibel> yeah it didn't finish the renaming from pycallgraph to pycallgraph2
[14:05] <didrocks> excellent news then!
[14:05] <didrocks> we should try profiling multiple install scenarios
[14:05] <didrocks> there is no text file produced, correct? So that we can diff the scenarios
[14:05] <jibel> I'm looking at gephi to view the charts. It seems better than graphviz for large ones
[14:06] <jibel> it is not packaged apparently
[14:06] <jibel> didrocks, no only a png
[14:06] <didrocks> trusting you on gephi vs graphviz ;)
[14:07] <didrocks> I don't remember what we used for large bootchart images we had in 2010
[14:07] <didrocks> just that eog wasn't able to handle it
[14:07] <jibel> didrocks, I looked at pytrace too which provides the same level of info but in text format. It's a bit harder to read but we could compare runs
[14:07] <didrocks> yeah
[14:07] <didrocks> I guess for diffing, that's OK
[14:07] <jibel> large svg usually kill eog
[14:07] <didrocks> to see the general path, it's way harder as we discussed
[14:08] <jibel> the best tool to watch those is ..... chrome :)
[14:09] <didrocks> gephi is a good snap candidate, as being java
[14:09] <didrocks> yeah ;)
[14:09] <jibel> ah gephi is in java, good candidate for a snap
[14:09] <jibel> exactly :D
[14:09] <didrocks> heh
[14:09]  * jibel registers the name
[14:09] <didrocks> you will start to be the java snap expert!
[14:10] <jibel> well, I made a template, put a zip or a jar in the same directory than snapcraft.yaml and it'll make a snap out of it
[14:11] <jibel> Success: gephi registered
[14:11] <didrocks> no deps needed? only the jre?
[14:13] <jibel> didrocks, all the deps are in the upstream jar
[14:13] <jibel> just add the jre
[14:14] <didrocks> sounds easy enough :)
[14:14] <jibel> actually it take a bit more time because you need an icon, a desktop file, a description, do a nice page on the store ...
[14:15] <didrocks> all this non-technical work… :)
[14:15] <jibel> hm, pycallgraph's CI is broken
[14:15] <didrocks> btw, I saw some sun this morning in Brussels and blue sky (for a short while) before taking the train
[14:15] <didrocks> no kidding
[14:15] <didrocks> ah?
[14:18] <cpaelzer> didrocks: thanks for your update on that byobu bug
[14:18] <jibel> didrocks, pluggy.PluginValidationError: Plugin 'pytest_cov' could not be loaded: (pytest 3.3.0 (/home/travis/virtualenv/python2.7.14/lib/python2.7/site-packages), Requirement.parse('pytest>=3.6'))!
[14:20] <cpaelzer> didrocks: did I understand you right that Desktops "try to detect which program is running", and for that will scan through the .desktop files - and this fails in the bug due to LXQt not honoring StartupWMClass, so detecting it as byobu is a false positve for that
[14:21] <didrocks> cpaelzer: exactly! This is my guess on why all gnome-terminal is matched by LXQt shell against byobu (just based on the Exec=gnome-terminal…)
[14:21] <cpaelzer> ok thanks
[14:22] <cpaelzer> as I'm blank on that area I was trying to wrap my head around desktop'y things when I see them to learn a bit at least :-)
[14:22] <didrocks> jibel: hum, you are using python2? unsure how it loads the python3 subiquity-based then
[14:23] <didrocks> cpaelzer: yeah, can be quite complex :) I think some googling/talk with the upstream LXQt devs to know which LXQt components is doing the matching
[14:23] <didrocks> in Unity, this was bamf, in GNOME, it's GNOME Shell itself
[14:24] <didrocks> (also, I wonder why someone is running gnome-terminal on LXQt, I'm sure there is a more integrated terminal in that DE?)
[14:26] <jibel> didrocks, the migration to python3 is not completely finished apparently
[14:27] <didrocks> jibel: how is subiquity running then with pycallgraph?
[14:27] <didrocks> as it's python3 only?
[14:31] <jibel> the tool itself works with py3, not the tests :/
[14:31] <jibel> or the examples
[14:31] <didrocks> ahhhh
[14:32] <didrocks> got you now
[14:49] <clobrano> willcooke: are you on edge channel or stable?
[14:54] <willcooke> clobrano, stable
[15:01] <clobrano> willcooke: okay, there should be some improvement on edge I will release tomorrow
[15:03] <willcooke> woot
[16:39] <k_alam> Hi desktopers, good afternoon
[16:49] <k_alam> seb128, jbicha: u there ?
[16:57] <jbicha> good evening
[16:58] <willcooke> clobrano, Do you want comments on github or here? re: dark theme
[17:01] <clobrano> willcooke: if it's a bug, on github would be good, otherwise here is fine
[17:01] <k_alam> jbicha: I opened a merge for rhythmbox-zeigeist...https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/1813813
[17:03] <willcooke> clobrano, I'm not really sure.  I'll comment here, see what you think.  In Chrom[e|ium], it's hard to differentiate between active and inactive tabs.  It might be a Cr. thing, it might be a theme thing, not sure.
[17:04] <clobrano> willcooke: yes, we had that bug opened. We didn't find a way to style it, but I can have a look again
[17:04] <jbicha> yes, the rb thing is a bit complicated
[17:04] <willcooke> clobrano, ah you've already seen it, ace!
[17:05] <willcooke> clobrano, I'm not surprised it's hard to fix
[17:05] <willcooke> if even possible
[17:05] <k_alam> jbicha: And please review this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1814506
[17:07] <jbicha> go ahead and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to that bug
[17:08] <jbicha> I don't really have the time/concentration now to review Unity stuff, sorry
[17:08] <clobrano> Uhm, it seems that matrix doesn't sync my messages fast enough
[17:08] <clobrano> My following message might be duplicated sooner or later :D
[17:08] <clobrano> I should have a look at chromium project itself. Being a Firefox fan kept me away from this issue :D
[17:09] <willcooke> :)
[17:13] <oSoMoN> clobrano, if that is a chromium bug, please keep me in the loop, and let's ensure it's reported upstream
[17:32] <clobrano> oSoMoN: I don't think it's a bug actually. It's just that chromium uses it's own css classes
[17:34] <Laney> what is zfs desktop?
[17:34] <Laney> (from jibel/didrocks reports)
[17:41] <willcooke> Laney, we were looking for somewhere to try zfs as root part.  So as part of the experimental image jibel and didrocks are making for the new installer work, we figured we'd try out zfs as the root fs too
[17:51] <Laney> ah
[17:57] <sarnold> oh sweeeeet
[17:57] <sarnold> zfs on root is enough work that I've never tried
[17:58] <sarnold> having distro support for that would be a huge differentiator
[18:04] <willcooke> sarnold, it's something we wanted to tag on as a test, so don't get your hopes up too much :)
[18:04] <willcooke> but ya know, if you wanna help....
[18:06] <sarnold> willcooke: cooool :) pencil my name in for "happy to review patches" :)
[18:06] <willcooke> :)
[22:14] <jbicha> wow, the rhythmbox zeitgiest plugin bug was reported in April 2014 😭
[22:15] <jbicha> bug 1313914


[01:39] <zul> heylo
[03:47] <mjg59> Ooh ooh ooh
[03:47] <mjg59> Laptop docking support patches
[04:19] <dilinger> whee!
[04:23] <dilinger> (22:19:27) Ian Gulliver: hung on detecting and activating hardware
[04:23] <dilinger> (22:22:36) Ian Gulliver: 4 times now
[04:23] <dilinger> (22:22:45) Ian Gulliver: looks like 2.6.15 fixes that nasty it-actually-boots-sometimes bug
[04:23] <dilinger> heh.  there's some race in there
[02:55] <zul> heylo
[04:50] <doko> BenC: ping
[04:51] <BenC> doko: pong
[04:57] <doko> BenC: is there a way to influence the order how scsi disks are enumerated? I have one on a 3ware controller, which is the first in BIOS setup, but comes as third in the system (the two sata disks are first and second)
[04:58] <BenC> doko: it's all in how the kernel reports PCI devices to udev, which it in turn loads the controller drivers in that order
[04:58] <BenC> so it's all based on PCI ordering
[04:59] <BenC> lspci will show you what you can expect
[05:00] <BenC> if the sata controller comes before the 3ware one, then there's not much can so other than blacklist the sata controller from initramfs and have it load from the base system
[05:00] <doko> not nice ... the 3ware has the highest ID
[05:01] <doko> can this blacklisting be done persistant (for upgrades)?
[05:01] <Mithrandir> doko: you can't even be sure the ordering is consistent.  Why do you want to see the controllers in a particular order?
[05:02] <doko> remove the sata disks at some point and still have a bootable system
[05:02] <Mithrandir> use by-label or by-uuid?
[05:03] <lamont__> YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  _I_ _AM_ _INVINCIBLE_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[05:03] <doko> could somebody please kick out this robot ;-P
[05:03] <BenC> sweet
[05:04] <doko> Mithrandir: in grub?
[05:04] <BenC> lamont: so can ia64 and hppa go to initramfs now?
[05:04] <lamont__> just booted ia64 with initramfs
[05:04] <Mithrandir> doko: grub is on the first drive the BIOS sees, you can't really change that.
[05:04] <lamont__> BenC: now, for extra credit... tell me what magic is missing on both ia64 and hppa to have the network card autodetect and configure like it does on the first-class architectures...
[05:05] <doko> yes, but it has root=/dev/sda5 , so this should be changed to something else?
[05:08] <lamont__> BenC: and I'm just being blind today... can't see where that stupid question is coming from... (Install a boot block using the existing...)"
[05:08] <lamont__> that is, I can't see why the kernel postinst doesn't ask the same question with grub
[05:08] <lamont__> oh, wait.  that's sick.
[05:08] <lamont__> there's no /etc/grub.conf
[05:09] <lamont__> --> no question
[05:10] <lamont__> and no grub run.
[05:10] <lamont__> hrm.
[05:10] <lamont__> BenC: I think that kernel-package needs to be updated to use debconf.... and that really hurts to say that.
[05:11] <BenC> lamont: PCI devices need a MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE()
[05:11] <BenC> that will help udev to know which driver to load when it sees that PCI device id
[05:13] <lamont__> 0000:00:0c.0 Ethernet controller: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21142/43 (rev 41)
[05:13] <lamont__> that doesn't have a DEVICE_TABLE???
[05:13] <lamont__> 0000:a0:03.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 02)
[05:13] <lamont__> I can believe that one's new enough not to.
[05:16] <lamont__> BenC: so, ia64 needs to depend elilo (>=3.6-1) and hppa/ia64 both need klibc-utils (>=1.1.16-1ubuntu1)
[05:17] <lamont__> and then the initrd-tools Depend can go away
[05:18] <lamont__> BenC: fresh boot shows eth0 present with a MAC addr, etc... but not configured.
[05:18] <lamont__> ifup eth0 and everything is happy
[05:18] <lamont__> so I think it's above the kernel...
[05:18] <lamont__> udevd[784] : get_netlink_msg: unable to receive kernel netlink message: No buffer space available
[05:18] <lamont__> I wonder if that's related... :-)
[05:19] <lamont__>  * Detecting and activating hardware...
[05:19] <lamont__> udevd[1726] : get_netlink_msg: unable to receive kernel netlink message: No buffer space available
[05:19] <lamont__>    ...done.
[05:19] <doko> Mithrandir grub lists root=/dev/sda5 as parameter, so this should be changed to something else?
[05:19] <lamont__> hrm... probably
[05:19] <Mithrandir> doko: if you use root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/$uuid-of-fs
[05:19] <lamont__> and shortly after that:
[05:19] <lamont__>  * Loading modules...
[05:19] <lamont__> Linux Tulip driver version 1.1.13 (May 11, 2002)
[05:19] <lamont__> tulip0: no phy info, aborting mtable build
[05:19] <lamont__> tulip0:  MII transceiver #1 config 1000 status 782d advertising 01e1.
[05:19] <lamont__> eth0: Digital DS21143 Tulip rev 65 at 80001000, 00:10:83:7A:1F:35, IRQ 66.
[05:19] <lamont__>    ...done.
[05:22] <BenC> lamont: that's a auto etho0 to /etc/network/interfaces
[05:22] <lamont__> BenC: right.  But I don't need that on i386
[05:23] <lamont__> because of this:
[05:23] <lamont__> mapping hotplug
[05:23] <lamont__>         script grep
[05:23] <lamont__>         map eth0
[05:23] <lamont__> hence the "what magic is missing here" question
[05:24] <lamont__> or maybe it's not... :-(
[05:24] <lamont__> I just know that my i386, ppc, and amd64 boxen all autoconfig eth0, even without the 'auto eth0' in /etc/network/interfaces
[05:25] <Mithrandir> lamont__: autoconfiguration of networks is kinda broken in dapper now.
[05:26] <lamont__> Mithrandir: it didn't work in breezy either.
[05:26] <lamont__> Mithrandir: how soon will the known borkage be fixed?
[05:26] <Mithrandir> lamont__: ask scott
[05:27] <lamont__> BenC: can I leave fixing the kernel package depends to you?
[05:29] <lamont__> BenC: fwiw, klibc_1.1.16-1ubuntu1 is current everywhere but sparc, which is probably just an upload-not-done-yet thing
[05:30] <BenC> yeah, fabbione is away for awhile
[05:30] <BenC> I can do the kernel deps
[05:30] <lamont__> thanks
[05:31] <BenC> klibc is a initramfs-tools dep I think
[05:31] <BenC> it's not for linux-image-* or kernel-package
[05:53] <infinity> lamont__: I can bump the depends on klibc* in initramfs-tools for you.
[05:58] <lamont__> infinity: ah, yeah, that'd be the place, huh?
[05:59] <lamont__> infinity: or I can do it if you don't have an upload planned soon
.. I have the source sitting right here.
[06:00] <infinity> (>= 1.1.16-1) should be fine, yes?
[06:00] <infinity> (so it can go back to Debian like that too)
[06:02] <infinity> Uploaded.
[07:07] <makx> infinity: the evms hooks landed directly in evms with latest debian upload :)
[07:08] <makx> i see that i need to sync to your repo for some nice arch support and copy_exec fixes.
[07:09] <makx> i'm still wondering why ubuntu's modprobe has "-Qs"?
[07:09] <makx> and i don't see that in our m-i-t..
[07:13] <infinity> makx: I saw that.  Congrats.  I'll be merging that stuff in after my VAC.
[07:13] <infinity> makx: With any luck, we're down to pretty much no diff, except for bugfixes and doc changes passing back and forth.
[07:13] <infinity> (and some usplash junk)
[11:59] <infinity> BenC: Can you please sync ipw2100 to 1.1.4 if you have a chance?
[12:00] <infinity> BenC: (regarding: https://launchpad.net/products/network-manager/+bug/28544 )
[12:01] <BenC> sure
[12:01] <infinity> Danke.
[12:01] <mjg59> BenC: Did you see my pointer to the Marvell wireless driver?
[12:02] <BenC> I did, but it's lost in scrollback...can you email it to me where I know it will stay in my view?
[12:02] <mjg59> Ok
[12:02] <BenC> thanks
[12:02] <mjg59> BenC: Address?
[12:03] <BenC><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:03] <mjg59> Done
[12:03] <mjg59> Needs firmware, we probably want to ask for distribution rights


[10:05] <rmg51> Morning
[15:10] <lazyPower> o/
[15:10] <lazyPower> slow day on good mornings
[15:13] <pvl1> almost noon lazyPower
[15:13] <pvl1> but greetings
[15:15] <lazyPower> indeed :)
[15:15] <lazyPower> not used to seeing the silence. Usually you and mutant turkey have and in hisname have dropped by and said good day to the ether
[15:16] <lazyPower> i'm a creature of habit
[15:16] <pvl1> i think we all are
[15:17] <pvl1> otherwise we wouldnt lurk :)
[15:17] <pvl1> how much would you guys for android devel
[15:17] <pvl1> no formal education or experience
[15:17] <pvl1> just a hacker that knows somethings... and wants money to go to college


[18:07] <bkerensa> tgm4883: you coming up to Portland for DebConf?
[18:07] <tgm4883> probably not, when is it?
[18:51] <bkerensa> tgm4883: august
[18:51] <bkerensa> http://debconf14.debconf.org


[09:37] <seb128> could somebody review the indicator-printers SRU in the artful queue? It has been waiting for a while
[09:45] <seb128> doko, hey, do you think you could SRU the glibc fix for bug #1719004 to 17.1O? (https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=commit;h=fe05e1cb)
[10:03] <infinity> seb128: Doko it probably not who you're looking for.
[10:04] <infinity> s/it/is/
[10:08] <seb128> infinity, you might be interested to upload that as a SRU then? ;-)
[10:09] <infinity> seb128: I'd been watching the bug, yeah.  Poked azanella to CP to the 2.26 branch, but if he doesn't do so, I'll just CP to Ubuntu/Debian.
[10:09] <seb128> infinity, thanks
[10:13] <infinity> seb128: I'm about 137% sure I don't want to cripple the autopkgtest infra any harder with a glibc upload before the weekend, but this one's on my TODO for next week.
[10:14] <doko> mozilla currently doing the crippling ...
[10:14] <infinity> doko: autopkgtest, not buildds.
[10:15] <infinity> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running <-- Check those queue depths and weep.
[11:27] <andreas> hi there, if somebody has a moment, I could use a sponsorship for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1721272
[11:27] <andreas> for bionic
[11:35] <doko> jbicha: on MoM you commented for deborphan: can't be synced. Why?
[11:44] <infinity> doko: Can't be synced until the upstream version bumps.
[11:44] <doko> infinity: so no reason to do a fakesync
[11:45] <infinity> doko: Well, we're in sync, do no reason indeed.
[11:46] <infinity> doko: But yeah, our version is higher than Debian's because it's natively versioned, but some doofus in Debian did non-native-versioned NMUs, so <IP_ADDRESS>-0.3 sorts lower than <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntuX
[11:46] <infinity> It'll resolve when <IP_ADDRESS> happens.  If it happens.
[11:47] <doko> I felt like I needed more pain, addressing the oldest merges
[11:47] <infinity> Hasn't has a maintainer upload since oldoldoldstable, someone should probably just roll up a bunch of pending fixes, convert to dh(1) and do a not-so-friendly upload. :P
[11:47] <infinity> doko: I'm curious why MoM even shows that one, since our version is higher.  Weird.
[11:49] <infinity> cjwatson: ^-- 'sup with that?
[11:49] <infinity> cjwatson: Is MoM not using dpkg --compare-versions to determine these things?
[11:51] <infinity> I wonder if I could fool it by just repacking that as <IP_ADDRESS>.0-0.3
[11:51] <cjwatson> let's not
[11:51] <cjwatson> hm, you're going to make me remember how any of this works
[11:52] <infinity> cjwatson: I apologize for any trauma.
[11:53] <infinity> I find it slightly ironic that deborphan appears to be defacto orphaned but without a formal orphan bug.
[11:56] <cjwatson> I think I see what's going on, ish
[11:56] <cjwatson> momlib.py:get_nearest_source
[11:57] <cjwatson> so it walks through sources trying to find a base
[11:57] <infinity> cjwatson: I had an IRC bug report from someone else about get_nearest_source going haywire too (generating a 20MB diff against something from ancient history), but I'm trying to remember the circumstances of that one now.
[11:58] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, that one had to do with epochs differing, and MoM not just saying "hahaha, I have no idea" (which would have made more sense).
[11:58] <cjwatson> get_base finds the base version that it's operating on, and it does that by just stripping off suffixes
[11:58] <cjwatson> and then if get_nearest_source finds an exact match, it returns that immediately without bothering with the version sort
[11:58] <infinity> cjwatson: So, sure, yes.  I get how it thinks <IP_ADDRESS> is the base.  What I don't get is why it's trying at all when Ubuntu has a newer version, sort-order-wise.
[11:59] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, I see, it just does them in the wrong order.
[11:59] <cjwatson> I'm not saying it's correct; I'm explaining how the code gets there
[11:59] <cjwatson> (I've never touched this code *at all*, so I'm a bit reluctant to just change it straight off)
[11:59] <cjwatson> it probably wants to be finding the newest possible base less than the Ubuntu version
[11:59] <cjwatson> <= maybe
[12:00] <infinity> cjwatson: Where does this live, BTW?  I've wanted to waste some time on it here and there for my pet peeves (like the changelog reflowing that adds *&^!^ newlines at the end of "incorrect" changelogs).
[12:00] <cjwatson> lp:merge-o-matic
[12:00] <infinity> Of course.
[12:00] <cjwatson> you are very welcome to it :)
[12:00] <infinity> I don't want it.
[12:00] <infinity> Unless I discover it's in Perl, C, or shell.
[12:01] <infinity> But it's going to be python.
[12:01] <infinity> It sure is.
[12:01] <cjwatson> I've my own to-do list for it which is probably disjoint to yours ...
[12:01] <infinity> Well, the proper TODO list involves making git merges not insane and scrapping MoM.
[12:01] <cjwatson> there is that
[12:01] <cjwatson> though something still needs to report on it
[12:01] <infinity> But as I've said once already today, let's not let future pie-in-the-sky projects by our perfect blocking our good.
[12:02] <cjwatson> we could ditch the "produce attempted merge" bits and keep the reporting
[12:02] <cjwatson> once git merging is ready and working across the board
[12:02] <infinity> LP itself does reporting too, though not in the most friendly way.
[12:02] <cjwatson> yeah, that's a bit of a disaster area
[12:03] <cjwatson> derived distributions /o\
[12:03] <infinity> But yes, tempted to "fix" the deborphan problem by NMUing <IP_ADDRESS>.1 to Ubuntu with some fixes for high prio bugs in the BTS, and then syncing.
[12:03] <infinity> Cause it's actually an RC bug that the package has non-native versioning. :P
[12:04] <infinity> (Or, would be as soon as someone tried to rebuild it)
[12:04] <infinity> s/to Ubuntu/to Debian/
[12:04] <infinity> Brain not braining right now.
[12:05] <infinity> Oh, maybe it's not an RC bug because it's also v1 format.
[12:06]  * infinity tried to remember if the strict dpkg version:format checks are v3-only.
[12:06] <infinity> s/tried/tries/
[14:38] <doko> cjwatson: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=880644 you are listed as the maintainer in Ubuntu. Maybe remove that package and discard the Ubuntu delta?
[14:41] <doko> wondering about the origin of that package libvideo-frequencies-perl
[14:42] <cjwatson> doko: I am?  AFAIK I've only ever touched it for transitions.  Do what you want.
[14:43] <cjwatson> doko: The patch originated in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=880644
[14:43] <cjwatson> err
[14:43] <cjwatson> doko: The patch originated in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvideo-frequencies-perl/+bug/223815
[14:45] <cjwatson> doko: So I don't have a problem with removing libvideo-frequencies-perl and dropping the delta in libvideo-capture-v4l-perl, but it's going to need Breaks/Replaces in libvideo-capture-v4l-perl until after bionic, and it'll need a scan for reverse-deps of course
[14:52] <doko> cjwatson: ok, ta. will do that
[15:06] <sil2100> doko: I removed some of the deprecated touch packages and published the fix for dbus-cpp
[15:06] <sil2100> doko: next I'll be looking at trust-store for the boost transition
[15:06] <sil2100> (also FTBFS on bionic)
[15:07] <jbicha> sil2100: see LP: #1728188
[15:12] <sil2100> Yeah, I don't mean to remove it or anything
[15:13] <sil2100> Just mentioning looking at the FTBFS
[15:20] <doko> jamespage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bareos has problems with our ceph version
[15:25] <infinity> sil2100: I think jbicha's point was that rather than fixing it, you should nag people to get pulse to a state where we can remove it. :)
[15:25] <infinity> sil2100: boost transition rebuilds are non-blocking, so there's no real urgency to fix everything Right Now.
[21:39] <dmj_s76> andrewsh: Why is python-xlib so old (.14 when .20 is newest)?
[21:40] <dmj_s76> I noticed just now because I got hit by a bug that was fixed six years ago upstream.
[22:22] <nacc> dmj_s76: it's in sync from debian? seems like a questio for debian :)
[22:25] <nacc> dmj_s76: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=855205
[22:26] <nacc> dmj_s76: it is strange that there was an upload to unstable and testing in nthe past few months of a versio nthat is years old
[22:26] <nacc> dmj_s76: it would appear the upstream moved, and perhaps the srcpkg has not been updated
[23:34] <juliank> cpaelzer: are you around? I have an upload for qemu to fix proposed apt in qemu-user chroots (http://paste.ubuntu.com/25882938/, making it return EINVAL for seccomp prctl calls, picked from upstream submission), but you seem very invested in that package, so it would be great to have an ack. And if not, you'll at least know about it :)
[23:35] <juliank> That's bug 1726394
[23:37] <nacc> juliank: i doubt he's aroundn (germany tz)
[23:37] <nacc> juliank: i can ping him on it on monday, though
[23:39] <juliank> nacc: Well, I guess he knows now / when he's reading it. The patch is trivial, so I'll just upload it now, and then invest apt autopkgtest failures over the weekend :)
[23:39] <nacc> juliank: sounds good :)
[23:41] <juliank> There are some really weird autopkgtest failures.
[23:43] <juliank> Is there a postgresql transition going on? -  Removing autopkgtest-satdep:armhf because I can't find postgresql-10-debversion:armhf
[23:43] <sarnold> there is
[23:44] <juliank> OK, good.
[23:44]  * juliank likes that apt timed out on s390x