[11:20] <sladen> desrt: right, then you need to use lilo.  not elilo.  elilo is for EFI machines.  The Mactels are *not* EFI machines when booted from Bootcamp.
[11:20] <desrt> i'm _not_ booting from bootcamp
[11:20] <sladen> desrt: "<desrt> i used bootcamp for install" ?  I'm confused
[11:20] <desrt> you're able to have bootcamp installed without using it to boot
[11:21] <infinity> mdz_: Around?
[11:21] <desrt> for example, macosx still starts using EFI even on a machine with bootcamp
[11:21] <desrt> and elilo is loading quite nicely
[11:21] <desrt> it's just crashing after reading the kernel image from disk
[11:22] <sladen> desrt: how did you write to the EFI nvram to tell EFI to load elilo?
[11:22] <desrt> i didn't.  i'm using rEFIt
[11:22] <zyga_> hmm
[11:22] <desrt> which i blessed using a macos installer cd
[11:22] <desrt> it's a fantastic program
[11:22] <desrt> gets a big thumbs-up from me
[11:23] <sladen> desrt: oh right... okay.
[11:23] <zyga_> does dapper work with itanium efi?
[11:24] <sladen> zyga_: yes, elilo+EFI on ia64
[11:24] <zyga_> great, thanks :)
[11:24] <desrt> woh
[11:24] <desrt> it sleeps!
[11:24] <sladen> zyga_: the only thing $special about the Mactels is that they don't boot FAT, or iso9660, from removalable media
[11:24] <desrt> it does not, however, wake up
[11:25] <desrt> sladen; unless you have bootcamp :)
[11:26] <sladen> desrt: in which case it's not a Mactel, but a poor imitation of a PC
[11:27] <desrt> true story
[11:27] <desrt> apple's BIOS is actually not too bad
[11:27] <desrt> maybe i should call it pseudobios
[11:31] <Kamion> sfllaw: could you please leave bug 46520 on grub-installer? There's no indication that it's a ubiquity bug, and even if it were I'd probably assign it to grub-installer on the basis that that's the piece of the installer that does the relevant work.
[11:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46520 in grub-installer "Grub installes to wring drives MBR in defualt install. No way to change in standard installer." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46520
[11:32] <\sh> BenC: ping could you elaborate on "Areca SCSI Raid Controller in ubuntu linux kernel 2.6.15 not enabled by default"
[11:32] <infinity> Kamion: If you try to fix that bug, can you ping me to test your fix?  (I'll subscribe to it right now)
[11:33] <fabbione> \sh: bug num?
[11:33] <zyga>
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: I ask because grub-installer used to (in pre-breezy days) mess up with Zofia's SATA/PATA combination, but it now works correctly, so I'd prefer if it didn't regress. :)
[11:33] <\sh> fabbione: no bug...just for my information...I'm thinking to propose this company here to switch from sles9 to ubuntu server with support contract :)
[11:34] <mdke> seb128: this page is obsolete now right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
[11:34] <\sh> fabbione: and as I told you last time...I have until the 12th july 1000 machines with areca controller, which are not working on sles9 but with ubuntu kernel (and enabled areca driver) they're running fine
[11:35] <fabbione> \sh: so it's only missing the option in the config?
[11:35] <\sh> fabbione: yeah..not enabled by default
[11:35] <\sh> fabbione: but I think someone had some reasons to do so
[11:36] <infinity> Man, I'm loving all the server errors on LP right now.
[11:36] <fabbione> \sh: ok i am checking the code.. just give me a few minutes please
[11:36] <\sh> fabbione: thx :)
[11:37] <seb128> mdke: yep, for 6 months or something like that
[11:37] <seb128> mdke: Desktop are translated by rosetta now
[11:37] <mdke> seb128: right, I'll bin it... people are still contributing :)
[11:38] <rob67> may i ask a question for the next release?
[11:40] <Kamion> infinity: it's so far up my list of "do not touch at this stage" ...
[11:40] <mdke> rob67: you can try it
[11:41] <infinity> Kamion: Right, I assumed it was a "don't touch for dapper" bug.  Still, if you poke at this stuff in edgy, I'd like to make sure it doesn't explode.  I was pleasantly surprised when it magically started working. :)
[11:41] <rob67> ok, thanks.  can i please put in a request to have xchat installed like the last version please?
[11:42] <rob67> i love Dapper, but i had to install an irc client before i could get on here
[11:42] <mdke> rob67: it's too late to change it now :)
[11:42] <rob67> i mean for the next one after Dapper
[11:42] <mdke> you can use gaim to get here, for next time
[11:42] <\sh> rob67: konversation is still default in kubuntu-desktop >;-)
[11:43] <infinity> rob67: It may not be all that intuitive, but irssi is installed by default still.
[11:43] <mdke> rob67: have a look at bug #38694
[11:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38694 in ubuntu-meta "No XChat in Dapper" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38694
[11:43] <mdke> infinity: ah, a friend of mine had a problem with grub installing to the wrong disk, i'll dig out the bug number, maybe it's a dupe
[11:44] <rob67> ok.  ill let you guys decide, after all you are the genesius' :)  thanx again.
[11:45] <mdke> was bug #45989
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45989 in grub-installer "Installation to second disk confuses drive numbering" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45989
[11:56] <fabbione> \sh: i don't see anything fancy for that driver...
[12:00] <Seveas> heh, what did keybuk drink at 2:55 UTC? :0
[12:04] <\sh> fabbione: so it could be enabled by default as "official" supported driver by Canonical?
[12:07] <fabbione> \sh: assuming there will be another kernel upload.... and d-i
[12:07] <fabbione> i need to get some food
[12:07] <fabbione> later
[12:08] <\sh> fabbione: who can tell? :) would be the kick suse out of business reason
[12:08] <infinity> I doubt there's be another round of kernel and d-i uploads.
[12:08] <infinity> (That would also require an initramfs-tools upload to add the driver to the SCSI module list)
[12:14] <fabbione> \sh: our support center would tell
[12:16] <desrt> hmm
[12:16] <desrt> new version of elilo is out that sounds like it fixes the bug i'm encountering
[12:27] <\sh> fabbione: jbailey is the responsible person for the support center?
[12:29] <jsgotangco> wow the kubuntu splash is beautiful
[12:33] <tepsipakki> is it intentional that if I install both gdm and kdm, both also run (two X servers)?
[12:34] <tepsipakki> before there was /etc/X11/default-display-manager, but not anymore
[12:35] <apokryphos> nope, there should only be one running, which one to be run is configure from sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm/gdm, and that should be run on new install of gdm/kdm
[12:35] <jsgotangco> holy
[12:36] <tepsipakki> apokryphos: yes, manually running that creates /etc/X11/default-display-manager, but it isn't created on install
[12:36] <fabbione> \sh: yes
[12:36] <dholbach> heno: did that fix bug 46713?
[12:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46713 in example-content "Examples in "oo-about-these-files.odt" out of date." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46713
[12:37] <heno> dholbach: yes, and the stuff in the comment too
[12:37] <dholbach> super
[12:39] <infinity> \sh: Err, wait.  Doesn't the arcmsr module work with your controller?
[12:39] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ modinfo arcmsr | grep description
[12:39] <infinity> description:    ARECA (ARC11xx/12xx) SATA RAID HOST Adapter
[12:41] <infinity> \sh: That's been in our default kernels for a while, though initramfs-tools only learned about it on May 16th (maybe that was your issue?)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: where's the published bzr branch of your casper upload?
[12:44] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: there isn't one
[12:44] <Keybuk> because I keep forgetting that such things exist
[12:44] <Mithrandir> I should make the casper source build fail unless you put "Yes, I've published the branch" into the changelog or something. :-P
[12:46] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that would not be unreasonable I guess
[12:46] <Keybuk> though you don't need to publish the branch anywhere
[12:46] <Keybuk> as the branch is in the source package
[12:47] <Keybuk> certainly having the binary step fail if it's uncommitted might be sweet
[12:47] <Mithrandir> I want it published so I can pull from it; bzr can't do bzr merge lp://casper/latest
[12:48] <\sh> infinity: can be, I'm using still kernel 2.6.15-22
[12:48] <\sh> infinity: and no...initramfs is not the issue...the driver wasn't enabled in ubuntu .config :=)
[12:48] <Kamion> whoa, vim 7 automatically folds debian/changelog
[12:49] <Kamion> +-- 11 lines: debian-installer-utils (1.30) UNRELEASED; urgency=low -- Colin Watson  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[12:49] <Kamion> +--  6 lines: debian-installer-utils (1.29) unstable; urgency=low -- Frans Pop  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[12:49] <Kamion> I wonder if I'll ever get used to that or if I should just turn it off
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: you can apt-get source and merge from that though
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes, but I'm lazy.
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so I think requiring people to explicitly publish it somewhere is unreasonable
[12:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so are other people, like me
[12:49] <Keybuk> I'd just bypass the check :)
[12:49] <Kamion> has anyone confirmed the current amd64 desktop CD?
[12:50] <Kamion> or do the buildds still need to be upgraded for that?
[12:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: dunno, I've only just woken up
[12:52] <infinity> \sh: Oh, well, we've been including arcmsr in the default kernels for a long time, so... Hrm.
[12:53] <Kamion> Listing ubuntu/dapper (NEW) 0/0
[12:53] <fabbione> missing from the udeb?
[12:53] <Kamion> infinity: ^--
[12:53] <Kamion> infinity: squashfs-tools on king?
[12:53] <\sh> infinity: ah in linux-source of 2.6.15-22 it's enabled by default...thx :)
[12:53] <infinity> Kamion: I'm checking now.  The cronjob wasn't re-enabled anyway, so unless you've triggered manual builds, there's no new livefs.
[12:54] <Mithrandir> \sh: -22 is old.
[12:55] <\sh> Mithrandir: I was using 2.6.15-19 as FAI install kernel for these machines and in 2.6.15-19 it wasn't enabled by default
[12:56] <jsgotangco> ciao
[12:57] <\sh> Anyways...thx for your help...I need to write an report now, to tell my manager that it would be a good idea, to use ubuntu server 6.06 LTS as replacement to sles9
[12:58] <infinity> Kamion: Updating all the chroots now.  We can do a quick amd64 manual test run to make sure it's okay after that.
[12:58] <infinity> Keybuk: If we build a new amd64/desktop, can you rsync it and test?  Zofia's doing homework on her machine, so I can't appropriate it right now. :)
[12:58] <Keybuk> infinity: certainly
[12:59] <Kamion> I can too
[12:59] <Keybuk> we should probably test that ALL of the LiveFSs work, on general principal
[12:59] <infinity> Okay.
[12:59] <Keybuk> though the upstream author confirms the fix
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion: I'll poke you when the livefs builds are all done.  (I'll do one for each of ppc/i386/amd64)
[01:00] <infinity> Keybuk: Speaking of "the fix"... I noted a very clever changelog entry, but actual mention of what the bug was or how it was fixed. :)
[01:00] <Keybuk> infinity: heh
[01:01] <Keybuk> that's because it was too complicated to explain in a ChangeLog
[01:01] <Keybuk> so, right
[01:01] <Keybuk> a squashfs consists of a whole bunch of inodes
[01:01] <Keybuk> directory inodes just link to children, etc.
[01:01] <Keybuk> file inodes have a list of "fragments" that need to be joined together to make the file
[01:02] <Keybuk> each fragment is a compressed or uncompressed block of data, that may be shared amongst multiple files
[01:02] <Keybuk> and at the end of the squashfs is the fragment table, that lists all of the fragments (the inodes contain indexes, rather than in-data pointers)
[01:02] <Keybuk> the fragment table isn't just <len><entries ...> though
[01:02] <Keybuk> it too is compressed
[01:03] <Keybuk> in fact, the fragments are compressed blocked, and then the table itself is also stored in multiple compressed blocks
[01:03] <Keybuk> the table is in 8192K chunks, each chunk holding 1024 entries (each one is 8 bytes each)
[01:04] <Keybuk> uh, 8192 byte entries, sorry
[01:04] <mdz_> dholbach: ubuntu-artwork OK
[01:04] <mdz_> infinity: yes
[01:04] <Keybuk> when writing this table out, squashfs had a calculating error for "how much space is left" ... it used %, so if there was a complete chunk remaining, it thought there was 0 bytes not 8192
[01:05] <Keybuk> so, this meant that it called compress2() with destLen=0
[01:05] <Keybuk> zlib whenever asked to compress 0 bytes returns 8 bytes of header
[01:06] <Keybuk> because the "compressed size" was greater than the uncompressed size (8>0) it decided that the last fragment table chunk would be uncompressed, so marked it as such by ORing the size with 1<<15
[01:06] <Keybuk> the net effect was that the last chunk of the fragment table was not read properly
[01:06] <Kinnison> urgh
[01:06] <Keybuk> so accessing any file in the last 8th of the disk would have been accessing random data
[01:07] <Keybuk> the reason this affected the amd64 CD only, was that it had EXACTLY 8,192 fragments
[01:07] <Keybuk> (there was enough duplicate blocks in those shiny new oggs to give this number even if other packages were changed for a bit)
[01:08] <Kinnison> erk
[01:08] <Keybuk> it actually turns out that it would affect any squashfs image with multiples of 1,024 fragments
[01:08] <Keybuk> the last fragment would always be busted
[01:08] <Keybuk> uh, last 1,024 fragments, sorry
[01:08] <infinity> mdz: Do we want to get some hideous strace-during-build hack into OOo for my pending (final) upload, or shall we just bury our heads in the sand on this one, knowing that security updates will build fine anyway, since terranova is our secrity buildd right now (and when security moves to LP, elmo can give us a new CPU or other such things to mask the bug)?
[01:09] <mdz> infinity: I think strace was a red herring, so no
[01:09] <Keybuk> obviously, the fix was to correct the "available space in the fragment table" calculation
[01:09] <infinity> Keybuk: That's so awesome it hurts.
[01:11] <mdz> Keybuk: goodness me
[01:12] <Keybuk> I NOW KNOW MORE ABOUT SQUASHFS THAN I EVER WANTED TO!
[01:12] <StevenK> Keybuk: Your poor eyes are burning? :-)
[01:13] <Keybuk> it would have gone away, eventually, but we'd have to stir in some SERIOUS entropy -- basically a 64KB block of data that does not exist anywhere else on the filesystem
[01:13] <Keybuk> and it would have bitten us on another CD too, eventually
[01:14] <Keybuk> in fact, I looked through Malone, and found a bug that sounded identical -- so we clearly did have a CD pop before
[01:14] <mdz> ternary conditional operator abuse!
[01:14] <mdz> Keybuk: nice work
[01:14] <giftnudel> Keybuk: really!
[01:16] <infinity> Keybuk: Your sleeplessness on this one won't go unrewarded.  Remind me that I owe you a beer or three in Paris.
[01:17] <Keybuk> yeah, right, who here could sleep once they've got their teeth into a bug like that? :p
[01:17] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you guys will have to rebuild tango-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme-common to benefit from the icon-naming-utils changes
[01:17] <desrt> well
[01:18] <desrt> i've learned a lot about the new macs tonight
[01:18] <desrt> mostly i've learned that they're absolutely insane
[01:18] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/unsquashfs.c
[01:18] <Keybuk> ^ we should stuff that in the source package
[01:19] <Keybuk> well, after it's less hacky
[01:19] <desrt> running the upgraded firmware on them turns them into some strange sort of hybrid beast
[01:26] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, can you be a dear and push your patch to Debian, so we don't have to worry about merging it when we bump to 3.0 in edgy?
[01:26] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, ok, thanks
[01:29] <sladen> Keybuk: NMU it as release-critical...  (and ignore which OS it's release-critical for, fnarr).
[01:29] <Keybuk> infinity: yeah, will report it to them
[01:29] <Keybuk> it'll be interesting to see how quickly upstream applies the patch
[01:31] <infinity> sladen: No need to NMU it, the Debian squashfs maintainer is quite responsive, and takes patches.
[01:32] <infinity> (He took Tollef's progress output patch, for instance)
[01:34] <dholbach> mdz: uploading example-content
[01:34] <mdz> dholbach: ok
[01:34] <mdz> Keybuk: how did you track it down in the end?
[01:35] <infinity> Kamion: livefs builds ready, BTW.
[01:38] <mdz> Znarl: do you know anything about the transparent proxy here in the office?
[01:39] <infinity> Keybuk: Hrm.  To trip the bug, mksquashfs needs to report "Number of fragments: 8192", doesn't it?
[01:39] <infinity> Keybuk: If so, this test is worthless anyway, since archive churn appears to have given the amd64 livefs 8196 fragments now.
[01:39] <mdz> infinity: all the better
[01:40] <mdz> FIX ME HARDER
[01:40] <mdz> I assume I'm the only one seeing MD5Sum mismatches on main and universe Sources in current Dapper
[01:41] <fabbione> mdz: the publisher is still running
[01:41] <infinity> Which means nothing.
[01:41] <fabbione> i get them often between XX:30 and XX:45
[01:41] <infinity> The publisher only moves the new archive in place when it's done.
[01:41] <fabbione> infinity: s/publisher/rsync
[01:41] <infinity> A slow rsync could do it, yes.
[01:42] <Guard] [an> hello, i just tested dapper drake RC, it's fine but isn't xgl+compiz supposed to be activated ?
[01:42] <infinity> Guard] [an: Heavens no.
[01:42] <infinity> Guard] [an: XGL is seriously experimental tech, and pretty much guaranteed to break, just cause it feels like it.
[01:42] <Guard] [an> infinity : so i have to follow the usual steps to have it ? or is there some simplified procedure ?
[01:43] <Kamion> infinity: cron.daily-live running on lithium
[01:46] <Keybuk> infinity: right, if you rebuild 20060525 with it, it boots (I tried that)
[01:47] <Keybuk> mdz: well, being able to produce "broken" and "working" o
[01:47] <Keybuk> images on demand kinda helped
[01:47] <karim> can I ask something about apt-build here ?
[01:47] <Guard] [an> infinity : thx
[01:47] <Keybuk> I noticed the mksquashfs code could actually read its own generated filesystems (so it can append to them), so I hacked up an "unsquashfs" that only read a filesystem image and would report whether it was ok or not
[01:47] <Keybuk> that worked on the "working" images and core dumped on the "broken" ones
[01:48] <karim> I was wondering why it was downloading libdevel from binary source instead of building them
[01:48] <Keybuk> at that point, it was just a matter of gdb on unsquashfs until I understood why it core dumped -- which I tracked to the fragment table being boll
[01:48] <Keybuk> ocksed for the last 1024 entries
[01:48] <Keybuk> and then tracing mksquashfs as it wrote the fragment table and realising what was broken
[01:48] <infinity> karim: Because that's what apt-build does.  It doesn't re-bootstrap your whole system, it just builds the package you asked it to.
[01:49] <Keybuk> I'd gathered lots of debug logs while making the images, and I'd noticed there that all of the broken ones had 8192 fragments -- and that the fragment chunk size also happened to be 8192
[01:49] <karim> infinity, may ask you more about that ?
[01:50] <infinity> karim: Not really on topic here.
[01:50] <karim> infinity, apt-build is in perl, I am looking forward how to build deps he wants to install recursively
[01:50] <karim> infinity, yes, but I though people experienced with  it might be here
[01:50] <karim> thanks
[01:51] <mdz> infinity: did you have a look at those oo.o LP URLs?
[01:51] <infinity> mdz: Doing that one right now.
[01:51] <infinity> mdz: Should be uploaded and building on terranova when my bandwidth says it's okay.
[01:52] <karim> infinity, I am thinking of adding an option that would do more
[01:52] <infinity> karim: You may want to discuss it with the Debian maintainer (acid@debian.org), then.  I suspect almost no one here has ever used apt-build.
[01:52] <karim> infinity, by the way there was a package called apt-fu. I can't find a trace of it on the internet or debian. since it sopped in 2003 and wasn't included in debian at all
[01:53] <karim> infinity, ok thanks
[01:53] <mdz> infinity: is your bandwidth misbehaving?
[01:54] <infinity> mdz: No, I just live in Australia, and OOo has a 73MB diff.gz :)
[01:54] <mdz> infinity: would be faster to apply it on chinstrap and upload from there :-)
[01:54] <infinity> (Too late now)
[01:56] <iwj> This kubuntu install (alternative cd) is showing me a strange black screen with two white character cells.
[01:57] <iwj> While it rattles the disk gently.
[01:58] <mdz> iwj: almost soothingly?
[01:58] <mdz> infinity: are we clear to build new desktop CDs all around?
[01:58] <infinity> mdz: We just built new Ubuntu ones.
[01:59] <infinity> mdz: We can certainly do the other 3 as well.
[01:59] <mdz> infinity: do they have new livefses ready?
[01:59] <infinity> Nope, I'll spin 'em right now. :)
[02:00] <infinity> Grinding.
[02:01] <Kamion> Ubuntu desktop is already rebuilt
[02:04] <iwj> If it wasn't spinning up the cd occasionally I'd think it had crashed.
[02:12] <Kamion> iwj: can it switch tty?
[02:13] <infinity> Whoa, I just typed my GPG passphrase correctly, TWICE IN A ROW.
[02:13] <infinity> This is going to be a good day.
[02:13] <ogra> heh
[02:14] <kiko> infinity, choose one which doesn't have 98 characters in it?
[02:14] <iwj> Kamion: apparently not.  I'm trying it again with breezy to see if it worked then (this is the disk I bought this morning).
[02:14] <iwj> But I think I blame the installer because I saw something similar yesterday and blamed it on the old broken disk I was using.
[02:14] <infinity> kiko: That's not fair.. It's only about 32... They're just hard to get right with shift drift.
[02:16] <Kamion> iwj: I'd blame the kernel, not the installer, if you can't switch tty. The installer is an ordinary userspace process.
[02:16] <Kamion> Well, not perhaps entirely "ordinary", but in the relevant senses ...
[02:18] <infinity> iwj: Is this the same machine that exhibits the sketchy usplash behaviour?  If so, you may want to try booting with debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[02:19] <iwj> infinity: Yes, it's the same machine.
[02:19] <iwj> I'll give that a go when I've seen what breezy makes of it.
[02:24] <Keybuk> how long does it take to get a reply from bugs.debian.org now?
[02:26] <Kinnison> Keybuk: supposedly no more than 15 minutes or so
[02:26] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:26] <Keybuk> has been half an hour
[02:27] <ogra> Kamion, i had some complaints from testers that the new text "install in textmode" would be confusing (since they looked for a edubuntu server option) would that be hard to change for final ? (seems most translations still say "install to harddisk" anyway, could we revert that for edubuntu ) ?
[02:27] <ogra> s/revert that/revert to that/
[02:28] <infinity> Keybuk: It's been slow in the last day or two.  Not sure why.
[02:30] <Kamion> ogra: mdz explicitly asked me to change that to "install in text mode"
[02:31] <Kamion> ogra: oh, for Edubuntu? maybe, I guess
[02:31] <ogra> yep
[02:31] <mdz> fine with me
[02:31] <Kamion> I'd need to upload gfxboot-theme-ubuntu to get the translations for "install to hard disk" back, though
[02:32] <infinity> Kamion: I'm running kubuntu cron.daily-live on lithium right now, BTW.
[02:32] <Kamion> infinity: thanks
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion, i'm personally fine with both, so only do it if time permits
[02:33] <Kamion> I think it should be changed back to "Install to the hard disk" for the server CD as well, personally
[02:34] <ogra> yes, makes sense
[02:35] <ogra> dapper-dvd-i386.iso
[02:35] <ogra><PHONE_NUMBER>  58%   10.70kB/s   36:35:26
[02:35] <ogra> bah
[02:36] <Traveler1> .
[02:44] <looksaus> iwj, dholbach referred me to you here for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/40067
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Confirmed]
[02:45] <looksaus> I'm a bit caught between a stone and a hard place: afraid to bother you good people in such a busy period with something that might turn out of little importance
[02:45] <looksaus> and on the other side, a potentially showstopper firefox problem on ppc
[02:46] <looksaus> is there anything I can/should do to help you determine the seriousness of this problem?
[02:46] <sladen> looksaus: if it recovers after a few seconds, it's not a show-stopper
[02:47] <looksaus> sladen, it doesn't
[02:47] <sladen> looksaus: if it wipes your hard-drive, it's a showstopper
[02:47] <looksaus> if it makes firefox entirely unusable, is it a showstopper?
[02:47] <sladen> looksaus: okay, I read that as 'freezes for', sorry
[02:48] <sladen> looksaus: it's just been confirmed by mdke, hopefully iwj will get to it soon enough
[02:49] <ogra> he tried to already, but nobody in here could reproduce it yet
[02:49] <looksaus> ogra, this is an upgrade from breezy
[02:50] <looksaus> should I reinstall and try to see if the problem persists, or is there no value in that?
[02:50] <ogra> well, my ppc has never seen breezy, might be the cause, yes
[02:50] <infinity> looksaus: If you move your profile out of the way, does the problem persist?
[02:50] <looksaus> no
[02:50] <looksaus> err, I mean
[02:50] <looksaus> yes
[02:51] <looksaus> I'll add that info
[02:52] <mdke> sladen: not me, I don't think
[02:53] <HiddenWolf> sivang: re nautilus dnd: I think so, but I don't know for sure, no, sorry.
[02:53] <mdz> infinity: thanks for oo.o; is Mithrandir taking care of -amd64 or are you?
[02:53] <infinity> mdz: I'll roll it when the i386 build on terranova is done.
[02:58] <iwj> looksaus: Ah.  Hmm.
[02:58] <iwj> I don't think doing a fresh install is likely to be very informative.
[02:59] <Lathiat> anyone aware of a bug for the network monitor with wireless wasting lots of whitespace?
[03:01] <Kinnison> Lathiat: whitespace where?
[03:01] <iwj> looksaus: I think I'd like you to strace it.  So, strace -ttvfot /usr/bin/firefox and this will generate a file `t'.  Don't attach it to the bug report; it'll be huge.
[03:01] <Lathiat> between the normal network monitor
[03:01] <Lathiat> and the wireless signal part
[03:01] <Lathiat> and then on the right hand side of the signal part
[03:02] <Kinnison> Sure this isn't panel-packing issues? (I.E. is the whitespace sensitive and is it part of the applet?
[03:02] <Kinnison> )
[03:02] <Lathiat> yes becuase its part of the same applet
[03:02] <iwj> looksaus: Err, do you start it from a terminal, and if so do you see the glibc message referred to in the bug report ?
[03:02] <Kinnison> Lathiat: Odd. Perhaps seb128 or dholback will have an idea
[03:03] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/rc.png
[03:03] <Lathiat> between the "moinitors" the "signal bar" and the volume control
[03:03] <Lathiat> is all part of the network applet
[03:04] <infinity> Lathiat: dholbach's latest ubuntu-artwork upload has "shuffled netstatus icons around" in the changelog.
[03:04] <infinity> Lathiat: Can you try upgrading and see if that fixes it?
[03:04] <Lathiat> ok
[03:04] <Lathiat> also that new partition size slider seems useless
[03:05] <infinity> (version 25)
[03:05] <Lathiat> either option doesnt sensitize it
[03:05] <Lathiat> so at a guess theres another option but it should be hidden if its not displayed ?
[03:06] <infinity> Lathiat: Yeah, that bug is hardly release critical, but can you file it on ubiquity?
[03:08] <Kinnison> mdz: What's it doing to you now?
[03:08] <mdz> there is no need for it to ask me that question for every trivial change
[03:08] <Keybuk> infinity: which cd images have been built with the new mksplashfs
[03:08] <mdz> it asks a debconf question on every upgrade, regardless of whether it is relevant
[03:08] <infinity> Keybuk: ubuntu and kubuntu so far, edubuntu is on the way.
[03:08] <Keybuk> infinity: 20060526 are "new" then?
[03:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Check the timestamps?
[03:09] <Kinnison> mdz: question priority fucked?
[03:09] <ogra> oh, why do i get new builds ?
[03:09] <Keybuk> infinity: good point
[03:09] <Kinnison> ogra: because we love you
[03:09] <_ion> Of course i freaking want it to download the plugin from teh Internets. :-)
[03:09] <infinity> ogra: Just cause.
[03:09] <ogra> :P
[03:10] <Keybuk> infinity: according to the timestamps, edubuntu is done
[03:10] <infinity> Oh, so it is. :)
[03:10] <infinity> So, just waiting on Xubuntu then, for kicks, and all the desklivetop images are re-done and ready.
[03:11] <ogra> hrm, i'm just rsyncing the dvd ... :/
[03:16] <iwj> Hmm.  It's not offering me auto-resize.
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> gotta go to a mock interview, I'll bug this on launchpad when I get back; this is kinda dumb, but I tried to print in Firefox before actually installing a printer
[03:16] <Keybuk> iwj: the trick to that is to do an erase install, and then run the installer again
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> Firefox kinda... hanged... and didn't come back.
[03:16] <mdz> Kinnison: I think it's intentional and the maintainer is just crack-addled
[03:16] <Keybuk> if there's >3GB free after the erase install, you'll be offered auto-resize
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: yeesh
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> Anyways out *runs very fast*
[03:16] <iwj> Keybuk: I did a manual partitioning install and there ought to be plenty of space.
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: you want me to set it to medium and upload?
[03:16] <mdz> Kinnison: one needs to try hard to get debconf to ask the question again and again on every upgrade
[03:16] <Kinnison> mdz: Or do you have a fix done already?
[03:17] <Kamion> iwj: send me /var/log/partman and I'll look into why
[03:17] <Lathiat> hrm why does the default sources.list list multiverse for dapper-updates but not for dapper or dapper-security
[03:17] <Lathiat> it seems even if we dont want to recommend multiverse it should at least be included in security if its in updates unless the inclusion in udpates is a mistake?
[03:18] <mdz> Kinnison: it should only ask the question when there is a new upstream version available for it to fetch
[03:18] <mdz> Kinnison: no, I haven't touched it
[03:18] <Kamion> Lathiat: I think it's a bug that it's included for updates
[03:18] <Kamion> mdz: ^-- can I fix that?
[03:18] <Lathiat> (has been for a long time)
[03:19] <Kinnison> mdz: unfortunately I think there's only install/uninstall for the script, there's no "check"
[03:19] <Lathiat> so is it a policy not to list multiverse by default?
[03:19] <Lathiat> also - does ubiquity download the latest updates from the internet automatically?
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes
[03:19] <Lathiat> i seem to have no updates upon reboot
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes it's a policy not to list multiverse by default
[03:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: no, ubiquity doesn't download updates
[03:19] <Kamion> nor does the regular installer
[03:19] <Lathiat> hrm ah i guess ftp.uwa = au.archive must be out of date a bit
[03:20] <Kinnison> mdz: In fact, this whole package looks crack addled
[03:20] <Kinnison> mdz: but at least it's not ruby any more
[03:20] <infinity> I'd really like to resurrect the license-scary flashplayer-mozilla (which I still have installed), but that would require us getting a distribution license from Macromedia.
[03:21] <mdz> Kamion: commented or uncommented?
[03:21] <seb128> Kinnison, Lathiat: icon issues are for dholbach
[03:21] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks
[03:21] <seb128> np
[03:21] <Lathiat> seb128: cheers
[03:21] <mdz> infinity: I think there's a reasonable chance that they would grant one
[03:21] <mdz> s/would/will/
[03:21] <Kinnison> Then it could just go into multiverse properly?
[03:22] <infinity> mdz: I'm fairly sure they would, but I never got around to asking them. :/
[03:22] <infinity> Fell WAY off the bottom of my TODO.
[03:22] <Kamion> mdz: at present it is there uncommented for backports
[03:22] <infinity> s/backports/updates/?
[03:22] <Kamion> I can't actually see what would make it be there uncommented for updates
[03:23] <Kamion> but I'd like to fix the backports thing anyway
[03:23] <infinity> Err, we ship a backports line uncommented?
[03:23] <Kamion> oh, sorry, that one's commented
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: happy to discuss whether to fix it once we can agree what the problem is ;-)
[03:24] <Kamion> hmm, how about I go look at an actual test install rather than zenning it from the code
[03:24] <iwj> Kamion: YHM.  It occurs to me that it may want to create a DOS Extended partition as well as a boot partition and I haven't left it enough primary slots for that.
[03:24] <kiko> can somebody with a kubuntu livecd reproduce iwj's bug 46404?
[03:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in qtparted "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: I'm doing the same
[03:24] <Lathiat> ok yes wireless icons are much better in the update
[03:24] <Kamion> iwj: yes it always wants to create a primary for / and a logical for swap
[03:24] <Lathiat> altho the image changes its offset when it changes to the data receiv icon
[03:24] <Riddell> kiko: that's next on my todo to look at
[03:24] <Lathiat> i'll talk to dholbach
[03:24] <Lathiat> dholbach: ping?
[03:24] <kiko> Riddell, cool
[03:25] <iwj> Kamion: That'll be it then.  (Although there's no reason why it couldn't use my existing swap ...)
[03:25] <kiko> Riddell, note also bug 46387 with the installer I think
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46387 in ubiquity "crash going back from advanced partitioner" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46387
[03:25] <Kamion> iwj: yeah, partman is not very bright
[03:25] <kiko> Riddell, is there noone else that is triaging kubuntu bugs this week with you?
[03:25] <infinity> kiko: Is that the sound of you volunteering?
[03:25] <Kamion> ok, in a d-i install, I have multiverse commented-out for backport
[03:26] <Kamion> s
[03:26] <Kamion> that's probably sort of OK
[03:26] <kiko> infinity, I have access to a wide network of volunteers!
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: so we ship commented dapper/universe, dapper-backports/{main,restricted,universe,multiverse} and dapper-security/universe
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: so dapper and dapper-security are consistent
[03:26] <Kamion> mdz: d-i or ubiquity?
[03:26] <Riddell> mdz: I've three things to upload if it's ok, changing guidance init script to 60, adept 2.0 which removes a debugging line that was filling .xsession and removing double menu entry for avahi-utils
[03:26] <Riddell> kiko: I have my usual helpers in #kubuntu-devel
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: We don't ship a commented dapper{,-security}/multiverse at all?
[03:27] <Kamion> infinity: we shouldn't; can't see one here
[03:27] <mdz> infinity: correct
[03:27] <Kamion> (I asked about that yonks back, and was told don't)
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: I mean, I'm not a huge non-free software nut, but do we need to make it that much harder for people who have no clue how to get at it?
[03:27] <Kamion> infinity: it's hardly difficult with "software properties" anyway
[03:27] <infinity> mdz: (sun-java, comes to mind, which we're even doing press releases about)
[03:27] <mdz> infinity: yeah, the example sources.list isn't as relevant these days
[03:28] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/sources.list.dapper
[03:28] <mdz> it's a checkbox
[03:28] <infinity> Kamion: I thought "software properties" only allowed you to enable/disable stuff that's already in the sources.list (ie: commented out)
[03:28] <Lathiat> also the backports line inconcistently listed main/restircted universe/multivere on the same line
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: well, that sources.list only has multiverse for backports
[03:28] <Lathiat> hrm, guess i mis-read
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: that's kind of intentional really, I don't want to bother with lots of commented blocks for backports
[03:28] <Lathiat> still, is that what we want?
[03:28] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah, right
[03:29] <Lathiat> do we still want multiverse in backports?
[03:29] <Kamion> I think, in fact, the sources.list you show is OK
[03:29] <Kamion> I can turn off multiverse there if people think that's better
[03:29] <seb128> trying edubuntu standard installation on that box, bbl
[03:29] <Lathiat> im not fussed but i think for consistency it should be removed
[03:29] <AlinuxOS> Thank You Guys for making Ubuntu so Amasing!  ;)
[03:29] <Lathiat> would make the lines less annoyingly long too.. :)
[03:30] <Lathiat> altho not quite to fit in an 8 terminal display unfortunately
[03:30] <Kamion> iwj: confirmed, you have:
[03:30] <Kamion> /lib/partman/automatically_partition/10resize_use_free/choices: 3 primary partitions, 0 logical partitions
[03:30] <Kamion> iwj: which is not enough for a primary and an extended to put the logical in
[03:30] <iwj> Kamion: Yes.
[03:30] <Kamion> there are two partman enhancements needed to make this better
[03:30] <Kamion> (1) make partman-auto able to reuse existing swap (though have to be careful, e.g. existing hibernated images)
[03:31] <iwj> Swap that might be hibernated into should have a different signature.
[03:31] <iwj> Then you'd be able to tell.
[03:31] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload those?
[03:31] <mjg59> It does
[03:31] <mjg59> Erm. Or rather, swap that /has/ a hibernated image in does
[03:32] <Kamion> (2) teach partman-auto that, while it needs to create a primary partition for / if there isn't already one, if there are already primary partitions it can just create a logical
[03:32] <iwj> mjg59: No, it has the same signature when it's not being a hibernated image.
[03:32] <Lathiat> swap that has a hibernated image does anyway
[03:32] <mdz> Riddell: those what?
[03:32] <mjg59> iwj: Indeed, but the kernel makes no distinction between these
[03:32] <iwj> And you can't tell whether it might become a hibernated image in the future.
[03:32] <Riddell> mdz: I've three things to upload if it's ok, changing guidance init script to 60, adept 2.0 which removes a debugging line
[03:32] <Riddell>                  that was filling .xsession and removing double menu entry for avahi-utils
[03:32] <Kamion> the existing recipe logic is optimised for blatting an existing disk rather than inserting a new installation into an existing one
[03:32] <Lathiat> iwj: as such migth be a bad idea to use else you wont have swap if you hibernate and switch os?
[03:32] <iwj> So if you reuse existing swap because this time the user happened to reboot, then next time when they hibernate the other OS and boot Ubuntu, it will refuse to swap it.
[03:33] <iwj> Lathiat: Right.
[03:33] <mdz> Riddell: the timing is not ideal for shuffling init scripts; what's the issue there?
[03:33] <mdz> Riddell: for the other two I'm happy to review debdiffs
[03:33] <Riddell> mdz: the script is at 37 and touches /usr, Keybuk tells me it should be at 60
[03:33] <Kamion> my feeling is that people with multiple Linux installations tend to avoid automatic partition setup programs anyway and will pick manual partitioning, so as long as it doesn't actually destroy data, that's OK
[03:33] <Riddell> mdz: http://www.ubuntu-zh.org/~freeflying/debdiff/avahi.debdiff
[03:33] <Lathiat> altho probably not somethign to do now, mimgh tbe worth considering creating swap files when no swap partition is active or something
[03:34] <Kamion> but I'm not sure. (2) is a more important enhancement and would solve iwj's problem too.
[03:34] <mdz> Riddell: avahi is fine to upload
[03:35] <infinity> Okay, just kicked off a Xubuntu destop image build for symmetry, and because janimo gives me warm fuzzies.
[03:36] <Lathiat> hrm why does the "Movie Player" menu item not prefixed with the program name like every other item in the sound & video menu?
[03:36] <infinity> Off to have myself a longish lunch, now.
[03:36] <Lathiat> well except sound recorder, but i dont think tha thas another name
[03:36] <ogra> Kamion, wow, that was fast, thanks !
[03:36] <Lathiat> and i bet often people will say "use totem" etc migh tbe less confusing if it was "Totem Movie Player"
[03:37] <infinity> Lathiat: I tend to agree on that point.
[03:37] <Lathiat> not just the s&v menu either, most menus are prefixed with program names
[03:38] <Lathiat> also is the Evolution Mail / Evolution an intentional distinction?
[03:38] <Lathiat> (Internet vs Office)
[03:39] <infinity> Yeah, the one in "Office" should probably be called "Evolution Groupware" or something, though.
[03:40] <Lathiat> yeh i was thinking that
[03:40] <infinity> And perhaps not even visible by default.
[03:40] <infinity> But it's likely too late to be changing these strings.  I'm not sure how our crazy .desktop gettext stuff works.
[03:40] <Lathiat> hrm also ekiga seems to be complkaining it cant listen on the sip/h323 ports yet i have nothign else running, hrm
[03:40] <Lathiat> infinity: mm true
[03:40] <Kamion> ogra: just done the cdimage change too, though not deployed yet
[03:41] <ogra> thanks again :)
[03:41] <Nafallo> #j #ubuntu-loco
[03:41] <Lathiat> i dare say tho dapper is looking really polished overall, im impressed :)
[03:41] <sivang> HiddenWolf: I'll search nautilus bts upstream, maybe there is something there to just apply a patch and fix this annoying bug
[03:41] <Nafallo> hmm, does the locoteam have a channel? :-)
[03:44] <mdz> Riddell: ok to move the guidance init script if it's only a rules change, no maintainer script changes
[03:44] <mdz> Riddell: what other changes in adept 2.0?
[03:45] <Riddell> mdz: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/adept-20.diff
[03:45] <mdz> Riddell: adept OK to upload
[03:45] <Riddell> mdz: the guidance change is in postinst
[03:47] <infinity> mdz: You can't change an init script location without changing maintainer scripts, unless you want very strange undefined behaviour.
[03:47] <infinity> Riddell: In both postinst and debian/rules, I hope.
[03:48] <infinity> for i in 2 3 4 5; do if [ -L /etc/rc"$i".d/SNNfoo ] ; then mv oldloc newloc; done
[03:48] <infinity> Riddell: Like that?  ^^^
[03:49] <Riddell> infinity: rules just installs it to /etc/init.d/ postinst makes the links with "update-rc.d displayconfig-hwprobe.py start 60 S ."
[03:49] <Riddell> I just changed s/37/60/  if someone already has it installed to 37 it won't change it
[03:50] <infinity> Riddell: You mean, you don't use dh_installinit, but do it by hand in postinst?
[03:50] <infinity> Riddell: Anyhow, if you want it moved, you should move it, not say "some people will have it at 37, some at 60, whee"
[03:51] <bddebian> Howdy Ubuntu Guru's
[03:51] <Riddell> it doesn't use dh_installinit no
[03:52] <Riddell> I can indeed add the for loop infinity gives but it probably won't help with mdz allowing it :)
[03:53] <infinity> Riddell: Well, not much of a for loop, if you're installing in S... :)
[03:54] <infinity> Riddell: Just "if [ -L /etc/rcS.d/S37guidance ] ; then mv /etc/rcS.d/S37guidance /etc/rcS.d/S60guidance; done
[03:54] <infinity> s/done/fi/
[03:54] <infinity> Go IRC shell.
[03:54] <infinity> Or whatever the name of the script is.  But you get the idea.
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: what I meant was that it shouldn't attempt to migrate the old symlink or any fancyness like that
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: just changing update-rc.d is OK
[03:59] <Riddell> mdz: oh right, I'll just ignore infinity then
[04:01] <Riddell> mdz: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/guidance.debdiff
[04:01] <mdz> Riddell: 404
[04:02] <Riddell> mdz: sorry, http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/guidance.debdiff
[04:02] <mdz> Riddell: OK to upload
[04:02] <Riddell> thanks mdz
[04:05] <mdke> what does "pn" mean when it appears by the name of a program when listing with dpkg?
[04:06] <Keybuk> purged, not installed
[04:06] <mdke> Keybuk: thanks. seems that when you purge sendmail it doesn't remove any of the configuration files, and still tries to start stuff on booting up
[04:07] <Keybuk> mdke: what does sudo dpkg --purge --pending do?
[04:08] <mdke> Keybuk: nothing
[04:08] <ogra> yippie, my dvd is done ...
[04:08] <Keybuk> mdke: probably sendmail package bug then, hasn't cleaned up after itself
[04:08] <mdke> Keybuk: yeah, i think it is. It's at #43752
[04:08] <Keybuk> if they were dpkg conffiles, you'd see either pc or rc as the status
[04:09] <mdke> thanks
[04:09] <iwj> infinity: d-i/fb=false made the install work properly.  But it's a regression from breezy, which installed just fine without.
[04:12] <Lathiat> infinity: hrm, i take it its also too late to change "Totem Movie Player" ?
[04:15] <mdke> Lathiat: for the menu? It's currently "Movie Player", isn't it?
[04:20] <Lathiat> mdke: yes
[04:21] <mdke> Lathiat: a few months back I suggested changing it in Ubuntu and upstream and got turned down on both occasions
[04:21] <Lathiat> mdke: hrm
[04:21] <Lathiat> mdke: to me it makes senmse, because all the other items are similar
[04:22] <Lathiat> and people e.g. in supprot channels will say "use totem" when people say "what movie player do i use" etc
[04:22] <Lathiat> did ubuntu/upstream give reasoning?
[04:22] <mdke> upstream rely on some spurious interpretation of the HIG
[04:22] <mdke> I'll find the bug
[04:22] <dholbach> Lathiat: pong
[04:22] <mdke> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331919 <- Lathiat
[04:22] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 331919 in general "Change Totem's entry in the GNOME menu" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]
[04:22] <dholbach> Kinnison: pong
[04:22] <Kinnison> dholbach: erm I've utterly forgotten what I pinged you about
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: something about icons?
[04:23] <Lathiat> dholbach: let me find the bug i just filed
[04:23] <Kinnison> dholbach: Erm, oh yeah, the g-p-m icon in the about is apparently wrong
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: seb128 pointed you and Lathiat to me about icons
[04:23] <Kinnison> Oh and that, yes, bug lathiat
[04:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: yes it is, i'll try to make that change happen as well - got a bug about it already - thanks.
[04:23] <Lathiat> hrm why does the g-p-m icon disappear when the battery is full
[04:24] <Lathiat> that seems like a silly default
[04:24] <Kinnison> Lathiat: because you have it set to show the icon only when charging or discharging
[04:24] <mdke> yes, I don't think that is the default
[04:24] <Lathiat> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/46752
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46752 in ubuntu-artwork "network monitor icon changes offset when activity occurs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[04:24] <Lathiat> i havent touched a thing
[04:24] <Lathiat> fresh install
[04:24] <dholbach> Lathiat: that bug is already filed
[04:24] <mdke> Kinnison: is that still the default?
[04:24] <Lathiat> dholbach: oh? i couldnt see it
[04:24] <Lathiat> i have opened the prefs dialog to gpm, but didnt change anything
[04:24] <dholbach> Lathiat: duplicate of bug 45658
[04:24] <ogra> Kinnison, dholbach, mind fixing bug 45536 alongside (whoever fixes the icon prob of you two) ?
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45658 in ubuntu-artwork "Human netstatus icone" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45658
[04:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45536 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown, but logoff" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45536
[04:24] <Kinnison> mdke: yes, and no I'm *NOT* talking about it
[04:25] <Lathiat> eh thats a terrible title :)
[04:25] <dholbach> Lathiat: i agree
[04:25] <dholbach> ogra: thanks
[04:25] <mdke> Kinnison: ok. Is there a bug report which explains the reasons for that choice of default?
[04:25] <dholbach> Kinnison: mind if I add that dependency?
[04:25] <Kinnison> ogra: that bug is very odd
[04:25] <Kinnison> dholbach: Go for it
[04:26] <dholbach> Kinnison: rock on
[04:26] <ogra> Kinnison, but the dep should be there, seb128 is right :)
[04:26] <dholbach> of course is seb128 right :-p
[04:26] <ogra> hehe, yes, indeed i wouldnt doubt that
[04:26] <dholbach> :-)
[04:26] <ogra> can you bring soem to paris ?
[04:26] <ogra> *some
[04:27] <sivang> dholbach: I also want one :)
[04:28] <seb128> edubuntu CD hates me
[04:28] <seb128> everytime I do a new rsync it seems to download the whole CD again
[04:28] <pygi> sivang, I need bzr repo for HUB
[04:28] <ogra> sivang, there is a bug in bzrk, it doesnt show the diff window
[04:28] <ogra> sivang, if youre after fixing dapper bugs ;)
[04:28] <sivang> ogra: hmm, does it crash or something? or just not show it?
[04:30] <ogra> sivang, you can click on the little icon that should bring up the diff window and get a traceback test yourself :) ... its not merely critical, but youre already in that code so i tought you might be intrested to fix it ;)
[04:30] <ogra> seb128, but you noted that the isos are not named alternate and desktop ?
[04:30] <iwj> I take it I'm not mistaken when I think that DapperUpgrades doesn't really apply to kubuntu.  I'll use DapperReleaseNotes/Kubuntu instead.
[04:30] <moberg> JaneW: how does it go with the mentors?
[04:30] <pygi> moberg, hm, what do you mean?
[04:31] <Riddell> iwj: you're right, it doesn't
[04:31] <moberg> "<JaneW> moberg: we had some duplication issues just before the announcements were made, so there was some frantic shuffling, BUT the mentor assignment function is currently frozen, so I am waiting for google to give me access again"
[04:31] <seb128> ogra: I do use "rsync -azvP cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-amd64.iso dapper-install-edubuntu-amd64.iso"
[04:31] <sivang> ogra: sure, I will take a look then :)
[04:32] <ogra> hmm,k
[04:32] <sivang> pygi: just a sec
[04:32] <ogra> seb128, works for me
[04:32] <seb128> ogra: I just tried an install with the image from the 24th which didn't work (kino not installable)
[04:32] <moberg> pygi: i have not been assigned any mentor yet :/
[04:32] <iwj> Riddell: Right.  I've updated Testing/Current's table.
[04:32] <ogra> seb128, amd64 was oversized until 24th
[04:32] <seb128> ogra: waiting for the rsync to be done to try again ;)
[04:32] <sivang> pygi: https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/devel-main
[04:32] <ogra> dapper-live-amd64.iso
[04:32] <ogra>    688644096 100%    3.76MB/s    0:02:54  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[04:32] <ogra> wroks fine here
[04:33] <seb128> ogra: BTW why do you use the ugly xorg cursor? to spare the disk space of a nice cursor theme?
[04:34] <ogra> seb128, the cursor was set in Xorg since warty to jimmac/Human as default, i didnt know we'd move that into the artwork packages
[04:34] <Riddell> iwj: thanks
[04:34] <Riddell> ogra: it's never been in xorg
[04:35] <pygi> simira, thanks :)
[04:35] <pygi> moberg, pm please
[04:35] <ogra> Riddell, so why did it work for me without -artwork installed before ? and now i need -artwork ?
[04:36] <Riddell> ogra: dunno, but I've always had to ship a kubuntu copy of the cursor theme
[04:36] <ogra> hmm
[04:37] <seb128> ogra: maybe you were using a cursor from industrial or xcursor-themes by example?
[04:37] <ogra> hmm
[04:37] <ogra> we never used a specific cursor in edubuntu
[04:38] <ogra> it was always there by default
[04:38] <ogra> i'll look into it
[04:39] <theine> Hi, I heard of quite a few reports about Espresso's buggy behaviour. Is there any substance to that? I haven't tried it myself
[04:41] <Riddell> theine: try it an find out?
[04:41] <Riddell> theine: it's call ubiquity now
[04:41] <fabbione> theine: not anymore.
[04:41] <pygi> moberg, you around still?
[04:41] <pygi> sivang, just pulling the source
[04:41] <moberg> pygi: yepp
[04:41] <pygi> moberg, well, you reading my PM?
[04:42] <moberg> pygi: yes, and i've replied :)
[04:42] <pygi> ergh, wait
[04:42] <pygi> moberg, try responding again :-/
[04:42] <theine> Riddell: well, in case it works for me, i still don't have very good statistics...
[04:42] <theine> fabbione: that's nice to know
[04:43] <fabbione> theine: well like any new development project it had bugs.. also bad ones. Nothing to hide. They have been addressed and fixed.
[04:43] <fabbione> theine: but there will be always one true test.. your :)
[04:44] <fabbione> theine: Kamion did an amazing job there to get them sorted and killed.
[04:44] <fabbione> theine: but rumors are more difficult than bugs to kill
[04:45] <Kamion> theine: what fabbione said. I've certainly had a lot of bug reports (very many of them duplicates, incidentally), but I only want to hear about real bugs, not rumours of bugs
[04:45] <theine> Kamion: yes, of course
[04:45] <Kamion> and yes, it was being done on a very tight schedule so the version in especially the beta release was pretty ropey
[04:47] <pygi> moberg, just join #socdiss
[04:48] <theine> Anyway, I'm glad you guys sorted out the ubiquity bugs. Great work, I really appreciate it.
[04:48] <moberg> pygi: done
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: It's a known regression on a very small subset of hardware, while we've fixed the framebuffer for a much larger subset of other hardware. :/
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: I'd like to get it perfect for everyone (and probably can for edgy), but I need access to hardware like yours, and I need to not do it 5 days before release. :)
[04:54] <sivang> pygi: I just upgraded to knits, so if you branched 30 minutes ago, you might using the old format.
[04:55] <pygi> sivang, ah,ok
[04:55] <sivang> pygi: did you have trouble branching from me?
[04:56] <iwj> infinity: Sure.  I mean, it doesn't hugely bother me but I thought you should know.
[04:56] <pygi> sivang, it stopped at like 30% or something :P
[04:56] <moberg> Im in need of a mentor for my SoC project. "Applications to improve Ubuntu", the task that I has in mind is to write an application, "Desktop panel look-and-feel mode changer". But i need a mentor to get started
[04:57] <sivang> pygi: crap, sorry, this is probably because I upgraded to knits during that time
[04:57] <sivang> pygi: just rm -rf and bzr branch again
[04:57] <pygi> sivang, just doing now :)
[04:58] <neuralis> moberg_: vuntz said he'd be ok with mentoring you.
[04:59] <iwj> Riddell: Is it really your considered opinion that editing the sources.list with adept is easier than (say) vi, ed, or cat ?
[05:00] <moberg_> neuralis: great!
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: hi :-)
[05:00] <moberg_> vuntz: hi there :)
[05:00] <Riddell> iwj: for GUI type people yes
[05:00] <iwj> You must be joking.
[05:00] <moberg_> vuntz: have you read my application?
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: in fact, I'm wondering if seb128 would have more time than me :-)
[05:00] <vuntz> moberg_: yep
[05:00] <iwj> It's really freaky and keeps undoing stuff and the instructions on ReleaseNotes are IMO hopeless.
[05:01] <vuntz> I guess I can help mentoring, but I might be a bit short in time. Maybe co-mentoring with seb128 would be the best solution?
[05:01] <KaiL> .torrent fie for ubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.iso broken?
[05:01] <seb128> vuntz: I would be happy by co-mentoring, I'll have a month of June busy
[05:01] <seb128> vuntz: 1 week of VAC, 1 week of summit and GUADEC ....
[05:01] <pygi> vuntz, then please do talk with JaneW about assigning you
[05:02] <iwj> Riddell: `will allow you to change the distribution from breezy to dapper'.  Ie, on each line, click and click again until you get to edit the `distribution' box, and then edit `breezy' into `dapper' and then _press return_ (or it discards your change) and go on to the next line ...
[05:02] <vuntz> pygi: I have a query opened with JaneW, but she's probably away right now :-)
[05:02] <iwj> mvo: I'm supposed to be testing what the user is going to do.  The user is going to follow the release notes.
[05:02] <JaneW> vuntz: hello, ping
[05:03] <vuntz> well, she's here now :-)
[05:03] <pygi> vuntz, see? :)
[05:03] <vuntz> pygi: it's because of your magic!
[05:03] <JaneW> heh
[05:03] <iwj> mvo: But, you have upgrade tools for kubuntu ?
[05:03] <pygi> sivang, is your bzr archive pullable?
[05:03] <pygi> I got some errors :-/
[05:04] <JaneW> vuntz:  will you mentor http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=moberg.peter%40gmail.com%3Af237bdd2%3Aa4b48a6d please? The student is moberg_ , and he wants communicate with his mentor.
[05:04] <iwj> Oh and don't forget to click `apply' before `close' or it just discards your changes.
[05:04] <mvo> iwj: *cough* it will work fine on kubuntu - but its not the official and blessed way there
[05:04] <iwj> mvo: Maybe it should be.
[05:04] <vuntz> JaneW: looks like seb128 and I just decided to co-mentor moberg_ :-)
[05:04] <neuralis> mvo: would you be okay with mentoring the zeroconf apt proxy?
[05:05] <vuntz> JaneW: so you can put either seb128 or me as mentor in the google webapp
[05:05] <neuralis> mvo: you had expressed interest in the comments.
[05:05] <pygi> neuralis, he also has one higher priority project
[05:05] <dieman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/manpages/+bug/6416 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=348028 are depressing to stare at.
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6416 in manpages "Symlink to missing manpage is installed." [Minor,Confirmed]
[05:05] <mvo> neuralis: I'm certainly interessted, I mentor someone else though. I would still be happy to give input. AFAIK doko voiced some interesst
[05:05] <infinity> Okay, guys, I'm exhausted from the marathon session yesterday, and working a fair chunk of today.  I'm off to bed.
[05:05] <JaneW> vuntz: are you happy for me to put you are the 'official' mentor (for admin purposes) since seb128 has one already?
[05:05] <iwj> infinity: Sleep well.
[05:06] <sivang> pygi: it is
[05:06] <JaneW> vuntz: how you actually divide the responsibility is up to you
[05:06] <neuralis> infinity: 'night, get some sleep.
[05:06] <sivang> pygi: what errors did you get?
[05:06] <vuntz> JaneW: it's not important to me (I'm already (co-)mentoring two projects for GNOME)
[05:06] <JaneW> moberg_: congrats, you have 2 mentors :)
[05:06] <moberg_> JaneW: :)
[05:06] <mvo> iwj: I'm not sure if Riddell would be happy about it, it drag in some gtk packages - OTOH the source is designed to make new frontends easy, for edgy we can probably get a qt version
[05:06] <vuntz> JaneW: so you can take this for a "yes" if it makes your life easier ;-)
[05:06] <pygi> neuralis, can you find someone else for that?
[05:06] <pygi> we also need admin for "ubuntu welcome center"
[05:06] <pygi> sivang, sent you in pm
[05:07] <mvo> neuralis: this is not your application, is it?
[05:07] <JaneW> vuntz: excellent thanks, not I just need google to open the interface so I can actually do the assigning
[05:07] <neuralis> mvo: ha, no. :)
[05:07] <infinity> Keybuk: Did we ever confirm that all (or some) of the new desktop CDs seem happy?
[05:07] <seb128> moberg_: probably better to hang on #ubuntu-desktop than here to discuss desktop changes to do ;)
[05:07] <pygi> sivang, I'll try again :)
[05:07] <Riddell> a port of the upgrade tool to kubuntu is in my edgy plans
[05:07] <sivang> pygi: okay, I will try myself from scratch
[05:08] <neuralis> pygi: mvo mentioned doko, could you ping him about it? if no one can be found, i'm open to the possibility of mentoring it myself, and consulting with mvo as we go along.
[05:08] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm still rsyncing them
[05:08] <Keybuk> was going to a burn-them-all-and-test-them-all run
[05:08] <Keybuk> seeing as I have all three arches in front of me now
[05:08] <pygi> neuralis, I can surely try
[05:09] <mvo> neuralis: I'm happy to co-mentor, I like the idea, but I think it needs some serious thought about the design
[05:09] <Keybuk> about ~1hr I guess
[05:09] <infinity> Keybuk: Ahh, fair enough.  Yell at me in backscroll if something seems goofy about them, I'm going to go catch a nap longer than 2 hours this time. :/
[05:09] <pygi> anyone here interested in mentoring "ubuntu welcome center"?
[05:09] <seb128> vuntz?
[05:09] <sivang> pygi: I am , what does it invlove?
[05:10] <pygi> sivang, you can see it here
[05:10] <pygi> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/app.html?csaid=ghee22%40gmail.com%3A19ff4490%3Ad5c0903d
[05:10] <seb128> heh
[05:10] <pygi> btw. sivang it seems that bzr is pulling OK now
[05:10] <pygi> we'll see tho
[05:10] <sivang> pygi: cool
[05:11] <Kamion> moberg_: BTW for your first application, grub-reboot is the tool you want
[05:11] <neuralis> mvo: yes, agreed. it's very easy to come up with a completely broken design for it.
[05:11] <Kamion> moberg_: may not quite work in dapper - I don't remember for sure - but it should definitely work once we merge from Debian early edgy
[05:12] <Kamion> much better than futzing with menu.lst
[05:13] <pygi> sivang, if you are interested in mentoring that, just poke JaneW about it
[05:13] <JaneW> sivang: you want Ubuntu Welcome Center  ?
[05:14] <sfllaw> Kamion: Of course.
[05:15] <fabbione> zakame: ping?
[05:15] <sivang> JaneW: well, if nobody else want to love it, I will, but having a co-mentor in fallback mode when I require specific things could be good.
[05:15] <sivang> JaneW: but I am interested, yes.
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in ubiquity "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[05:17] <sivang> JaneW: also, I'm short of some t-shirts :p
[05:19] <JaneW> sivang: we may have another plan
[05:20] <JaneW> we have an unallocated official mentor...
[05:21] <pygi> sivang, I'll get three...need one? :)
[05:22] <sivang> heh
[05:22] <sivang> JaneW: no prob
[05:23] <sivang> pygi: nah, 'sokay , was joking.
[05:26] <sivang> pygi: if I don't help a SoC applicant I would not feel comfortable to wear one :p
[05:26] <Kamion> OH
[05:26] <pygi> sivang, :)
[05:27] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46743 is because g-s-t offers an option to install NTP, which just uses synaptic to install them on the spot - but that fails because the debconf db is locked
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in ubiquity "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[05:27] <Kamion> (by ubiquity)
[05:27] <pygi> sivang, you'll be "mentoring" that Annant guy anyway :)
[05:28] <mdz> Kamion: I don't see what we can do about it
[05:28] <mdz> they could also open Synaptic separately and then try to run Ubiquity; I assume that'd fail too
[05:29] <Kamion> yeah, but this is an option presented (indirectly) by ubiquity
[05:29] <Kamion> actually it might be possible to make the installation work if file descriptors were connected up properly, but not really for dapper
[05:30] <Kamion> my other thought is to somehow catch the invocation of synaptic by g-s-t (e.g. by munging its $PATH and installing a little wrapper script) and queue the packages for installation instead
[05:30] <Kamion> I would ignore it for dapper if it wasn't that it fucks up ubiquity later
[05:31] <Kamion> in a highly non-intuitively-obvious way
[05:31] <mdz> sfllaw: how is the fire hose tasting today?
[05:32] <mdz> Kamion: I'd say we should invoke g-s-t in a way which causes it not to offer the option
[05:32] <sfllaw> mdz: The water is foul.
[05:34] <doko> neuralis: I did talk with JaneW about mentoring apt-proxy
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: what about adding a option to time-admin "--installer-mode" and that will hide the install-ntp button?
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: I've been trying to figure out how to do that. It apparently chooses whether to offer the option based on whether synaptic is on $PATH.
[05:34] <Kamion> mvo: that would work, although an environment variable might be simpler
[05:34] <Kamion> (in patch volume, if nothing else)
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: yeah, even better
[05:34] <mdz> sfllaw: anything I should know about?
[05:35] <mvo> Kamion: I can do that quickly if you want
[05:35] <Kamion> perhaps $NO_INSTALL_NTP?
[05:35] <nuzzy> any talk of getting CUPS 1.2.1 in?
[05:35] <seb128> no
[05:36] <Kamion> mvo: yes, please
[05:36] <mvo> Kamion: GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP ?
[05:36] <mdz> Kamion: are the current amd64 DVDs built with fixed squashfses?
[05:38] <Kamion> mvo: works for me
[05:38] <\sh> did anybody work with SE Linux Kernel feature and ubuntu server?
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: No. I'll trigger a build now.
[05:38] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[05:39] <Kamion> mvo: I've assigned half of 46743 to you, then
[05:39] <infinity> \sh: We didn't concentrate on any SELinux stuff for this release, no.  I suspect it'll get looked at a bit more in edgy.
[05:39] <mvo> Kamion: done, testing it now
[05:39] <\sh> infinity: ok..then you get some testresults next week....our security guy is testing now ubuntu server kernel with se linux and the utilities :)
[05:40] <\sh> our suse consultant is getting nervous right now
[05:41] <infinity> \sh: Err, we don't enable SEL in the Ubuntu kernels at all...
[05:41] <Keybuk> I thought we did
[05:41] <tseng> we did, once
[05:41] <\sh>  [*]    NSA SELinux Support
[05:41] <mdz> infinity: we certainly do
[05:41] <\sh> -23
[05:41] <Keybuk> quest scott% grep SELINUX /boot/config-2.6.15-23-amd64-k8
[05:41] <Keybuk> CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX=y
[05:42] <mdz> that is, we build in the support but don't turn it on by default
[05:42] <tseng> it is totally passive by default.
[05:42] <Keybuk> you just have to boot with selinux=on or something, right?
[05:42] <mdz> yes
[05:42] <Keybuk> tseng: like infinity then ;)
[05:42] <tseng> the kernel command line can give you various levels of enforcement
[05:42] <infinity> mdz: Oh, so we do.  I just never noticed until I grepped the config.
[05:43] <infinity> (Could have something to do with it being disabled by default)
[05:43] <tseng> the policies for debian have never really been worked on enough
[05:43] <\sh> at least we can enable it from the boot loader which is enough for us right now...
[05:44] <tseng> \sh: you should help flesh out the base policies :)
[05:44] <iwj> Ah, lovely, themes turning up now, after the last moment of course.
[05:44] <mdz> iwj: you have no idea how deep that particular swamp goes
[05:45] <\sh> tseng: if we can push ubuntu for this company ubuntu will get more SEL love
[05:47] <ajmitch> the policies are being worked on for debian, and I was hoping to do something about it for edgy..
[05:48] <ajmitch> since it just wasn't useful working on the reference policy for dapper
[05:49] <infinity> hunger: We know.
[05:49] <hunger> Is that known? Well, it is not releasecritical anyway.
[05:49] <infinity> iwj: I guess you never dug to the bottom of that one?
[05:49] <infinity> hunger: It's harmless, just ugly.
[05:50] <infinity> hunger: And has been happening for eons.
[05:50] <iwj> infinity: No.
[05:50] <\sh> ok..travelling home now...cu later this night :)
[05:50] <hunger> infinity: Strange... I have not noticed it in a long time. Must have gotten used to it:-)
[05:51] <iwj> infinity: It's ages ago now but it was quite deep (and not always reproducible) and since it's really just cosmetic I thought I'd leave it.
[05:52] <infinity> iwj: Yeah, at this point, it's too late, but cosmetic counts for a lot, so I would like to see it solved for edgy, maybe.
[05:53] <hunger> infinity: The messed up shutdown graphics in kubuntu are really ugly and way more visible:-( I assume people are looking into that though.
[05:53] <infinity> iwj: Cosmetic counts for A) people wanting Ubuntu to be as shiny as possible, but also B) the 8000 people who report this bug in both Debian and Ubuntu becuase OMG, MY SYSTEM MUST BE BROKEN!
[05:53] <infinity> hunger: I've not even booted a kubuntu CD, but I've heard talk of this, yes.  I should check it out after I sleep.
[05:53] <Riddell> hunger: on which CD?
[05:53] <hunger> Riddell: I have a current dapper updated all the way from breezy.
[05:55] <bddebian> I have a kubuntu install CD I can try if you want?
[05:55] <iwj> mdz: Oh, it turns out I was wrong.  I've just found the .upload file.  But the package isn't in the archive.
[05:56] <hunger> Riddell: I have had this problem (either messed up graphics or blue text) ever since you introduced the graphical shutdown.
[05:56] <mdz> iwj: it's not in the queue either
[05:56] <hunger> Riddell: Actually I saw the proper graphics a couple of times, but mostly it is a huge mess.
[05:56] <Kamion> iwj: what was the package name? I'll check the logs
[05:57] <hunger> Riddell: It does work perfectly once the splash-thingy is restarted during the shutdown process.
[05:57] <Kamion> iwj: (and date of upload, if you can)
[05:57] <iwj> ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes
[05:58] <iwj> upload.ubuntu.com Thu May 18 16:15:02 2006
[05:58] <Keybuk> ok
[05:58] <Keybuk> some wise guy changed the behaviour of snprintf
[05:58] <mdz> Keybuk: eh?
[05:59] <Keybuk> mdz: snprintf used to return -1 if size wasn't big enough
[05:59] <Keybuk> now it seems to return "the length of the string you need to allocate"
[05:59] <Kamion> iwj: I think you forgot to sign it, and a known LP bug meant that you didn't get told.
[05:59] <Kamion> 15:15:06 DEBUG   Verifying signature on ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes
[05:59] <Kamion> 15:15:06 DEBUG   UploadError made it out of .process()
[05:59] <Kamion>  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/2732104/xNqik8vaaoIanbEQPuBHrMqWhqz.txt (GPG verification of ubuntu-php-firefox-human_0.4.1_source.changes failed: No data)
[06:00] <mdz> Keybuk: I think it's always been that way in glibc
[06:00] <mdz> though it varies elsewhere
[06:00] <Kamion> iwj: can you sign and reupload?
[06:00] <Keybuk> mdz: glibc 2.1 it changed, apparently
[06:00] <iwj> Uh, so I didn't.  I blame cvs-buildpackage.
[06:00] <mdz> Keybuk: i.e. before the dawn of time
[06:00] <desrt> mjg59; i want to be elite like you
[06:00] <desrt> mjg59; how are you so cool?
[06:00] <iwj> I need to get the latest version anyway.
[06:01] <Keybuk> mdz: hey, I started on Linux in the days before shadow passwords and when we still had the BSD libc ;)
[06:01] <Keybuk> iwj still has the BSD libc on this laptop, iirc ;)
[06:01] <desrt> mjg59; specifically, know any good techniques for finding out what is happening in the wee moments after my macbook wakes up?
[06:02] <mvo> Kamion: ok to upload g-s-t now? "export GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP=1" will work now
[06:02] <iwj> Keybuk: SuSv3 specifies the new (sane) behaviour.  http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/snprintf.html
[06:02] <iwj> Urr, actually, no.
[06:03] <Keybuk> iwj: C99 does
[06:03] <iwj> They fail to specify what happens if your buffer is too small but nonzero.
[06:04] <Keybuk> C99 has nice things actually
[06:04] <Keybuk> "If n is zero, nothing is written, and s may be a null pointer."
[06:04] <mdz> mvo: ping?
[06:04] <mvo> mdz: pong
[06:05] <Kamion> mvo: yes please
[06:05] <Kamion> +        time_admin_env['GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP']  = '1'
[06:05] <mjg59> desrt: What are you running?
[06:06] <desrt> mjg59; dapper on a spiffy new white macbook
[06:06] <sivang> ogra: I have a patch :)
[06:06] <mjg59> Using boot camp?
[06:06] <sivang> ogra: re: bzrk
[06:06] <desrt> using the legacy booting capability of the new firmware
[06:06] <mjg59> Right
[06:06] <mjg59> Erm
[06:06] <mjg59> What currently happens?
[06:06] <desrt> i've tried the usual suspects
[06:07] <desrt> ie: close down X, remove drivers, echo 3 into the sleep file manually
[06:07] <ogra> sivang, great
[06:07] <desrt> basically, it sleeps just fine
[06:07] <desrt> but when it wakes up it's dead
[06:07] <mjg59> acpi_sleep=s3_bios and removing the "quiet" boot option may result in some output on resume
[06:07] <sivang> ogra: will upload shortly
[06:07] <ogra> thanks :)
[06:07] <sivang> ogra: you're welcome!
[06:07] <desrt> screen fails to come back and even the capslock is screwed
[06:07] <desrt> k.  lemme try that.
[06:08] <mjg59> desrt: Given that grub won't work, I wouldn't recommend it
[06:08] <desrt> oh.  what's wrong with it?
[06:08] <mjg59> Uses unimplemented BIOS functions
[06:08] <desrt> ah
[06:09] <desrt> i can just toss that acpi_sleep argument at the end of the lilo line, right?
[06:09] <desrt> like 'dapper acpi_sleep=s3_bios'
[06:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:10] <mjg59> But you need to remove "quiet" as well
[06:10] <desrt> thx for the tip.
[06:10] <hunger> mjg59: Do you know of any progress on the shutdown-after-resume issue on some thinkpads?
[06:11] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-1.0.8.diff <- OK to upload?
[06:11] <Kamion> glade changes are tiny and tested, rest should be obvious
[06:12] <mvo> urgh, I just uploaded without puting a debdiff up (looked at the diff beforehand of course)
[06:13] <iwj> Oh, bloody hell, Frank Schoep's crazy box has vanished entirely now.
[06:13] <highvoltage> mvo: who doesn't? :)
[06:13] <Kamion> mvo: I'd have expected a one- or two-liner anyway
[06:13] <Kamion> just add getenv("GST_NO_INSTALL_NTP") to the relevant if
[06:14] <mvo> Kamion: yes, that is what I did
[06:14] <Kamion> good
[06:14] <desrt> bah.  no love.
[06:16] <pitti> hi
[06:16] <desrt> good morning
[06:16] <pitti> congrats to the RC! So you guys could fix the amd64 sqashfs issue?
[06:16] <pitti> hi desrt
[06:16] <pygi> hello pitti, and congrats on mentoring :)
[06:16] <seb128> hey pitti
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: did we find any safe workaround for the button sensitivity/focus issue?
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: greetings from Switzerland!
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: you in swiss ? :)
[06:17] <thom> pitti: read scott's changelog for squashfs . it's pretty funny
[06:17] <pitti> sivang: yes, visiting a friend of mine and Zurich
[06:17] <seb128> pitti: how is Switzerland? enjoying it? ;)
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: oh cool!
[06:17] <mvo> pitti: don't forget to buy some chocolate
[06:17] <mvo> and cheese
[06:18] <pygi> mvo, watches :)
[06:18] <thom> mountains, but they're tricky to buy
[06:18] <pygi> clocks :-P
[06:18] <pygi> thom, lol :)
[06:18] <pitti> thom: lol :) not that it would tell me what the bug was, but it's nice to read
[06:18] <pitti> mvo: Cheese, mountains, Victorinox Swiss Army Knifes
[06:18] <seb128> thom: if you can go to space you can probably buy a mountain too :p
[06:19] <thom> seb128: true true. although taking it home in one piece might be entertaining
[06:19] <mdz> Kamion: OK to upload
[06:19] <seb128> thom: right ;)
[06:19] <iwj> Woohoo.  I upgraded kubuntu breezy -> dapper and now it's completely hosed.
[06:19] <iwj> I'll see if it's any better after a reboot.
[06:19] <seb128> mdz: did you read that mail about poppler issue?
[06:19] <seb128> opinion on it?
[06:19] <mdz> seb128: no
[06:20] <pitti> Keybuk: *hug*
[06:20] <mdz> seb128: where?
[06:20] <seb128> mdz: the mail is on ubuntu-devel
[06:21] <seb128> patch from bug #24970 is an ABI change it looks like
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 24970 in poppler "evince crashes when highlighting text at line end" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24970
[06:21] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tetex-base/+bug/42075
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42075 in tetex-base "includegraphics fails" [Normal,Confirmed]
[06:21] <seb128> is due to it
[06:21] <Riddell> iwj: you'll need to restart kde
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: argh, did you see this poppler shlibs bump email?
[06:23] <seb128> pitti: cf what I'm saying on that chan
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: oh, right, you are discussing it right now
[06:23] <pitti> sorry
[06:23] <seb128> np
[06:24] <mdz> seb128: looks like it should probably be reverted, but this can wait until after release
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: revert patch or rebuild packages?
[06:24] <iwj> Riddell: Why do the instructions not say to do so ?
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: revert patch and then rebuild packages?
[06:24] <pitti> seb128: why both?
[06:25] <iwj> Riddell: And I quickly figured out I needed to restart it but when I tried I got a semiinfinite series of dialogue boxes telling me that various crap was hopelessed buggered.  Segfaults all round.
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: if packages were built with the changed libpoppler they might need to be rebuilt
[06:25] <seb128> pitti: because if the ABI change we probably want to revert it, no?
[06:25] <pitti> seb128: TBH, rebuilding the rdepends seems safer to me
[06:25] <pitti> hm, as you wish
[06:25] <pitti> mdz: right, that
[06:25] <iwj> How can I file an RC bug against the upgrade instructions ?
[06:25] <seb128> I don't really wish anything, I'm not sure of what is the best
[06:25] <pitti> 's why I favor rebuilding rdepends
[06:25] <seb128> but as pointed by mdz we need to rebuild either way
[06:25] <zul> pitti: there is a security fix for the phpmyadmin ill attach a debdiff with the patches to the bug is that ok or should i just upload it?
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: how many packages are affected in each case?
[06:26] <seb128> pitti: but we make us binary incompatible with rest of the world then?
[06:26] <iwj> I mean, has anyone actually _tried_ these upgrade instructions ?  Because new users who get a bit queasy because of lots of warnings from defoma are going to be completely freaked by the kubuntu breezy->dapper experiences I've just had.
[06:26] <seb128> mdz: to main, probably like 4 or 5
[06:27] <mdz> seb128: in both cases?
[06:27] <seb128> mdz: no, if we don't roll the patch out it looks like only tetex-bin needs a rebuild
[06:27] <pitti> seb128: is that an issue? if so, well, then we can revert the bug fix, too, but I wouldn't be so happy about reintroducing a bug
[06:27] <seb128> right
[06:27] <pitti> mdz: around 6
[06:27] <ogra> iwj, i have some upgrade tests on my todo (at least for edubuntu) since i'm listed for them in sfllaw's table on Testing/Current
[06:27] <seb128> I would just rebuild tetex-bin then
[06:27] <mdz> seb128: everything else has already been built with the new lib?
 seb128: all the packages except tetex-bin (not sure about kdegraphics) have been built since the change
[06:28] <mdz> ah
[06:28] <iwj> mvo: I'm not particularly a fan of the modern GUI for myself but I can see why some people would like it.  What I'm really not a fan of is broken stuff !
[06:28] <iwj> ogra: Right.  Err, do you mean `I haven't tried it so it may be rough' which is fine or `I would like you to try it and rant at me about the bugs' ? :-)(
[06:28] <pitti> zul: go ahead, I'll be away again soonish, and I can't do much here anyway
[06:28] <iwj> s/\($//
[06:28] <seb128> mdz: should we do a rebuild upload for tetex-bin now?
[06:28] <zul> pitti: ok ill do an upload tonight when i get home
[06:29] <ogra> iwj, that meant "i'll try them as well and i can tell you later if it works for ubuntu or edubuntu"
[06:30] <iwj> ogra: Ah, right.
[06:30] <iwj> I was trying the kubuntu thing because my name was in the box saying I should try it :-).
[06:30] <ogra> yeah :)
[06:30] <Kamion> mdz: I haven't revisited the button sensitivity/focus issue since yesterday
[06:31] <Kamion> mdz: I'd like to sort it out if possible, though. sabdfl wants me to upload on Monday with updated translations ...
[06:32] <iwj> mdz: That theme package is FTBFS :-(.  Do you want me to upload it anyway so it's in the archive where we can edit it ?
[06:33] <iwj> (I'm looking into it to try to see if there's an obvious quick fix.)
[06:33] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm also expecting a patch from you at some point to turn off the KDE media notifier while running ubiquity; given that Monday's a bank holiday, are you going to be able to get that to me before then?
[06:36] <pitti> bye!
[06:41] <iwj> ogra: I've just been doing _k_ubuntu.  I'll probably try a few others at some point but perhaps not today.
[06:42] <ogra> yup
[06:48] <KaiL> eeks - afaik killed Partitions with graphical installer?!
[06:48] <mjg59> KaiL: In English?
[06:49] <KaiL> mjg59, on heise.de somebody writes about a destroyed NTRFS partition with the graphical installer - not beta1, RC :(
[06:52] <iwj> mdz: No, I don't see a quick fix for this themes thing but I don't really know what's been going on.  Obviously some stuff has moved.
[06:52] <KaiL> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=10498744&forum_id=98195 - not really that much details...
[06:52] <ogra> KaiL, i dont have a heise account anymore, if you have one, please ask him to file a bug
[06:53] <desrt> mjg59; no love on the commandline option
[06:53] <mjg59> desrt: No debug love for you, then
[06:53] <desrt> sucks, huh?
[06:53] <mjg59> Yup
[06:53] <desrt> i have another sad story
[06:53] <desrt> elilo loads and says 'Loading initrd.img...done'[newline]  and then locks up
[06:53] <desrt> not insanely important since legacy booting is fine but still sort of weird
[06:54] <desrt> this one should be easier to diagnose, though
[06:54] <KaiL> ogra, got blocked for too much trolling? ;)
[06:55] <ogra> KaiL, nope, stopped posting ~2 years ago because that forum is simply pointless
[06:55] <KaiL> today it's better that pro-linux (where they only have anti-gnome-rant)
[06:55] <desrt> mjg59; any suggestions for next step with sleep?
[06:55] <desrt> mjg59; oh... one thing i should mention... with the s3_bios option, i have to echo 3 into the sleep file twice... the first time, it gets ignored
[07:01] <_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/pictures/screenshots/amarok-tool
[07:01] <_ion> :-)
[07:01] <mdz> iwj: not much point in uploading it if it doesn't build
[07:02] <mdz> iwj: is the failure in Frank's PHP magic or in the packaging?
[07:02] <mdz> iwj: if the former, please ask him to see if he can get it building again
[07:02] <iwj> mdz: The failure is that it can't find some icons that it's trying to slurp from the input themes.  Presumably those input themes have stopped shipping those files for some reason.
[07:03] <iwj> Apparently this happened once before.
[07:03] <iwj> Who is responsible for packages like ubuntu-artwork, tangerine-icon-theme, tango-icon-theme and where can I find the discussions where they decide to change things ?
[07:03] <Burgwork> mvo, you around?
[07:03] <seb128> iwj: dholbach
[07:04] <jsgotangco> dholbach
[07:04] <iwj> I've been trying to keep track of ubuntu-art but it's very noisy if you don't much like discussing the merits of icons :-).
[07:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:04] <iwj> seb128, jsgotangco: ta.
[07:04] <seb128> np
[07:04] <iwj> dholbach: ping?
[07:04] <dholbach> iwj: pong
[07:04] <iwj> Hello.  We're discussing (^) the FTBFS of the new ff theme package from Frank Schoep.
[07:05] <iwj> It seems some files have moved or been removed.  Eg, /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg (not sure if that one was the one it found before, but some file like that).
[07:05] <dholbach> iwj: do you have a buildlog somewhere?
[07:05] <mvo> Burgwork: yes
[07:05] <dholbach> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg has never existed to the best of my knowledge
[07:06] <iwj> dholbach: Yes, just a mo ...
[07:06] <dholbach> only /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/{filesystems,devices}/* yes, everything else, no
[07:06] <dholbach> (that's for scalable ones)
[07:07] <iwj> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/buildlog
[07:07] <dholbach> merci, looking
[07:08] <dholbach> and 21x21 never existed as well
[07:08] <dholbach> 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48 for Human, yes
[07:08] <iwj> dholbach: It tries various things for each icon and picks the first one that exists.
[07:08] <dholbach> (oh well and add scalable)
[07:09] <iwj> If you look at the bottom of that log, you see the files it tries [0] ..[7] .  At least one of those files must have existed previously, I think.
[07:09] <dholbach> tango-icon-theme-common: /usr/share/icons/Tango/scalable/actions/dialog-apply.svg
[07:10] <dholbach> and I'll make sure there's a Human variant as well
[07:10] <iwj> Oh, has tango-icon-theme been split ?
[07:10] <dholbach> in fact it's a split off of tangerine-icon-theme
[07:10] <sfllaw> So... wvdial tickles a problem in the ltmodem driver.
[07:10] <sfllaw> Which hardlocks the machine.
[07:10] <iwj> I've got  Build-Depends: ubuntu-artwork, tangerine-icon-theme, tango-icon-theme, [image processing software]
[07:10] <dholbach> to have icons that are common to both: tango-icon-theme and tangerine-icon-theme
[07:11] <dholbach> Human does not have an icon for that metaphor
[07:12] <dholbach> and the checks for 21x21 should be either 22x22 (tango*-icons) or 24x24 (Human)
[07:12] <iwj> Is there somewhere where this kind of thing is discussed that Frank and I should be watching ?
[07:12] <iwj> dholbach: I think he's trying to make 21x21 icons.  I don't know why.
[07:12] <iwj> Is that wrong ?
[07:12] <dholbach> then he has to rescale them, that's fine with me - I'm just saying that he won't find any of those in the icon themes we ship
[07:12] <iwj> I know nothing about icons; I got involved via firefox and made Frank's thing into a Debian-format source package.
[07:13] <dholbach> there are bzr branches for tangerine and tango-common
[07:13] <dholbach> but that's the most I can offer
[07:13] <iwj> dholbach: IC.  I don't think that matters.
[07:13] <dholbach> I merely packaged them.
[07:13] <iwj> His script is indeed set up to rescale things if it doesn't find the size it wanted.
[07:13] <iwj> That's why it looks for .png first and then .svg for each one.
[07:14] <dholbach> Right.
[07:14] <iwj> OK.  That seems to have built.  I'll add the build-dependency on tango-icon-theme-common and upload it.
[07:14] <dholbach> Excellent.
[07:14] <iwj> Thanks muchly.
[07:14] <dholbach> If there are other breakages, please tell me.
[07:14] <dholbach> I'm happy to double check that none of the icons went AWOL.
[07:15] <dholbach> (which wouldn't surprise me given the fluctuation)
[07:16] <iwj> dholbach: OK.  I'll have a .deb shortly and you can check it for me ?
[07:16] <dholbach> I can try.
[07:18] <iwj> dholbach: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/firefox-themes-ubuntu_0.4.2_all.deb
[07:19] <iwj> mdz: dholbach helpfully told me what the problem was and it's uploading now.
[07:20] <iwj> mdz: now in NEW
[07:20] <sfllaw> BenC: Ping.
[07:20] <dholbach> mdz: looks good so far.
[07:20] <dholbach> iwj: looks good so far.
[07:20] <iwj> Thanks.
[07:23] <Kamion> iwj: what a weird source stanza in debian/control. I'm not sure I've ever seen one only three lines long before.
[07:23] <Kamion> (no Section, Priority, or Standards-Version)
[07:24] <iwj> Oh, I should have put in a Standards-Version.
[07:24] <iwj> Do we use Section and Priority ?
[07:24] <Kamion> iwj: and the Depends is duplicated
[07:24] <Kamion> they provide hints to soyuz in much the same way they provide hints to dinstall/dak
[07:25] <Kamion> they're overridden, but usually trivially; dselect users will see the results
[07:25] <iwj> Kamion: IC.
[07:25] <mvo> what bribe would it take to get someone to work on bug 45267 for me?
[07:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45267 in libnotify "Notification with an image half hidden" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45267
[07:25] <Kamion> there should be an actual debian/copyright in the source, per policy
[07:26] <Kamion> (I realise it's generated, but the output should be in the source)
[07:26] <iwj> Kamion: the duplicated Depends is very strange.  I think I must have been in a hurry.  Thinking about it I shouldn't be treating this as `I did this ages ago'; I should be treating it as `new thing I've just invented' like it looks from your pov ...
[07:26] <sfllaw> OK.  Lunch time.
[07:26] <iwj> And it was pretty freaky when I started so a 2nd round of review a week or three later is probably a good idea anyway.
[07:27] <iwj> If you reject it I'll furtle it and upload again in a bit.
[07:28] <Kamion> no, I'll not stall the work on that, as I don't see anything that should actually be harmful - please just incorporate the above into the next upload
[07:28] <Kamion> I've overridden the source to Section: web
[07:28] <iwj> OK.  Thanks.
[07:29] <BenC> sfllaw: pong
[07:29] <sivang> elmo: around?
[07:29] <doko> anybody seen this with new installations? http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/Terminal-Buttons.png -> the background of buttons has a wrong color until you move the mouse over it
[07:30] <dholbach> doko: ati driver?
[07:31] <doko> dholbach: yes
[07:31] <doko> Radeon 9200
[07:31] <dholbach> doko: there should be a bug about it
[07:32] <dholbach> doko: I suppose changing the Theme makes it work again?
[07:32] <Burgwork> iwj, one comment: you might want to avoid the use of "php" in a package name that has nothing to do with PHP, so as to avoid confusion
[07:33] <sfllaw> BenC: Bug 41991
[07:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41991 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 "ltmodem use hangs 686 kernel" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41991
[07:33] <sfllaw> It's not something we can fix, is it?
[07:34] <doko> dholbach: if I change back, I see the wrong color again
[07:35] <dholbach> doko: that might be another ati <-> cairo related breakage
[07:35] <iwj> Burgwork: not my choice of package name.  You are of course entirely correct.  The binary package name is more sane.
[07:36] <seb128> doko: that's an ati driver issue, there is a zillion of dups already
[07:36] <Burgwork> iwj, yep, I see that
[07:37] <iwj> Gah, this package is a pile of crap still.
[07:38] <ogra> why does it have php in its name ?
[07:39] <iwj> Because it's named after the CVS module in Frank's repo, which he decided to call `yada-php-yada' because he was going to write it in php.
[07:39] <dholbach> what is the package name? i-dont-like-php or what?
[07:39] <ogra> dholbach, the one you were discussing with iwj the last half hour
[07:39] <ogra> ubuntu-php-firefox-human
[07:39] <dholbach> I downloaded a firefox-themes-ubuntu deb
[07:39] <ogra> thats the binary
[07:39] <iwj> Yes, the source and binary have different names.  Do catch up at the back.
[07:40] <ogra> i'm just wondering what php means there
[07:41] <iwj> It means `this is a pile of php'.  This is silly, I know.  See above.
[07:41] <sivang> php in firefox theme??
[07:41] <iwj> Or are you asking `why don't I rename it' ?
[07:41] <ogra> ah, sorry i'm blind
[07:42] <iwj> Obviously I don't want to go around renaming source packages; that's just makework.
[07:44] <iwj> Kamion: re debian/copyright> `A copy of the file which will be installed in /usr/share/doc/package/copyright should be in debian/copyright in the source package' (policy <IP_ADDRESS> s12.5), you mean ?
[07:45] <iwj> I'm afraid I can't comply with that because the copyright information for the binary package is generated at build-time.
[07:45] <Kamion> iwj: you build-depend on the relevant packages, which means that you can generate debian/copyright from your package's clean rule.
[07:46] <Kamion> you might have to *re*generate it at build time too, but it will generally be pretty close. The purpose of having debian/copyright in the source package is so that ftpmaster can extract it in a scriptable way.
[07:46] <iwj> Kamion: Hmm.
[07:47] <iwj> ftpmaster wants the copyright of the _source_ package, not of the binary one.
[07:47] <iwj> (And policy should say `must' if it's a technical requirement of the archive system, surely?)
[07:47] <BenC> sfllaw: ok, checking on it
[07:47] <Kamion> In that case it's reasonable enough for debian/copyright in the source to be a straight copy of debian/copyright.in, and you can regenerate it for the binary packages later.
[07:47] <iwj> I suppose the binary package copyright will include the source package one.
[07:47] <Kamion> iwj: yes, well, I don't control Debian policy ...
[07:48] <Kamion> It's not *quite* a technical requirement - katie would put up big flashing warnings for the ftpmaster operating the tools if it's missing who would generally reject on that, though
[07:48] <iwj> Is this a feature of Debian ftpmaster as well as Ubuntu ?
[07:48] <iwj> Right, so the policy is wrong.
[07:48] <Kamion> more than of Ubuntu, I'd say, given that soyuz doesn't yet do automatic copyright extraction
[07:49] <Kamion> AFAIK the reason that requirement is in policy was because Debian's ftpmasters wanted it to be.
[07:49] <Kamion> though interestingly http://release.debian.org/etch_rc_policy.txt is a bit ambiguous on that
[07:50] <Kamion> it just talks about the binary requirement
[07:52] <Kamion> iwj: Hmm, perhaps I need to take back my words. I've just looked through katie's source and can't find the check for debian/copyright that I could have always sworn was there. Oh well.
[07:52] <Kamion> so whatever, I guess ...
[07:53] <Kamion> sladen: amen
[07:54] <karim> is there a way to get the list of build-deps for a package ?
[07:54] <Kamion> karim: apt-cache showsrc, or look in debian/control if you have the source package unpacked
[07:55] <karim> Kamion, my goal is to maje apt-build build the build dependencies
[07:55] <karim> make
[07:55] <karim> Kamion, apt-cache showsrc shows the list, but I don't know how to parse it, since it also includes version numbers between braquets
[07:56] <Kamion> well yes you'll have to learn how to parse that. :-)
[07:56] <Kamion> the definition is in the Debian policy manual
[07:57] <karim> definition of what ?
[07:58] <Kamion> or e.g. /usr/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl (parsedep) or python-apt have functions to parse it
[07:58] <Kamion> definition of the field format you say you don't know how to parse
[07:58] <karim> Build-Depends-Indep: gettext (>= 0.13), po-debconf, po4a the line looks like that
[07:58] <karim> ok
[08:01] <karim> Kamion, that's horrible man
[08:02] <karim> Kamion, briefly, how do I use that ?
[08:03] <jdub> iwj: ubuntu-*php*-firefox-human ... ?
[08:03] <Kamion> jdub: see scrollback
[08:04] <jdub> heh
[08:04] <jdub> bizarre :)
[08:05] <jsgotangco> jdub: good morning?
[08:05] <Kamion> karim: I don't have time for detailed technical support I'm afraid. If you're talking about the Perl one (which I believe is probably harder to use, nowadays) then there's an example in ubiquity/d-i/update-control. If you're talking about python-apt then I believe 'import apt_pkg; help(apt_pkg.ParseSrcDepends)' should help. Next time say which you mean ...
[08:05] <jdub> jsgotangco: evening still ;)
[08:06] <karim> Kamion, I am not sure how to use that in a perl programm. I have done some perl, but well ...
[08:06] <karim> karim, perl
[08:06] <Kamion> karim: don't use the perl one if you aren't comfortable enough with perl, then ...?
[08:06] <karim> Kamion, in fact anything. I use a system cal from perl, so I just need something that can return a string with the build deps
[08:06] <karim> perl or not it's fine
[08:07] <Kamion> mdz: I just noticed an issue in gparted; it emits FORMAT instructions to stdout whether or not it managed to do the partition creation, so ubiquity can be confused into thinking that it needs to create a filesystem when it really shouldn't
[08:08] <Kamion> mdz: this might be the cause of the heise article ogra referred to earlier, not that it's very clear, and of Billy's comment near the end of bug 45543
[08:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45543 in ubiquity "Serious Data Loss resizing partitions" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45543
[08:08] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/gparted-fix-format-instructions.diff looks promising; could you eyeball it at least in principle?
[08:08] <Kamion> I haven't set up a test environment yet and I'm about to finish for the week
[08:10] <sladen> join #ubuntu-bugs
[08:10] <iwj> Kamion: just uploaded a saner version of that package, I think.  What a mess.
[08:13] <iwj> Me too now.  Thanks everyone for bailing me out of this themes mess.
[08:15] <haggai> doko: what's happening with apt-proxy? Any changes should be sent to me since there is a new release on the way with lots of changes
[08:17] <doko> haggai: please look at the spec, it's not yet clear to me, how he wants to do that
[08:22] <haggai> doko: do you have a link to the spec?
[08:31] <sfllaw> BenC: It looks like TIOCGSERIAL or TIOCSSERIAL to the ltmodem device makes it pretty unhappy.
[08:32] <sfllaw> Or even TCGETS.
[08:32] <sfllaw> Yikes.
[08:36] <zyga_> hello
[08:36] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[09:04] <tseng> Kamion: can we throw ifolder3 back out?
[09:05] <sladen> launchpad is out to lunch.
[09:06] <ogra> tseng, whats wrong ?
[09:06] <tseng> Kamion: it never met the normal NEW review from MOTU/Mono Team which is pretty customary before such an upload
[09:07] <tseng> don't see it at all
[09:07] <ajmitch> and it's missing build-deps
[09:08] <tseng> it was definately not up to par the last any of us saw it
[09:08] <tseng> (ubuntu/debian mono)
[09:08] <lukaswayne9> Has anyoene else noticed some very strange GTK rendering problems in dapper?
[09:08] <ajmitch> not to mention that the versoin accepted is a few months old
[09:08] <ogra> and it seems to not fulfill the "at least two cross reviews" policy
[09:09] <tseng> right..
[09:09] <tseng> it was reviewed by several people
[09:09] <tseng> but never approved
[09:13] <lukaswayne9> Has anyone else noticed a lot of GTK2 rendering issues in the latest dapper?
[09:15] <KaiL> might be a problem with the graphics driver?
[09:16] <ogra> tseng, woah, how did that ever get past NEW ? i just ran lintian on the source
[09:18] <tseng> ogra: i told you
[09:18] <tseng> ogra: its bad news
[09:19] <ogra> yep
[09:19] <bddebian> What package?
[09:20] <ogra> ifolder3
[09:20] <jordi> Riddell?
[09:20] <ogra> but i just discovered it might be a prob on my side
[09:21] <ogra> i'm out of diskspace
[09:21] <BenC> sfllaw: ok, I'll check that code path
[09:21] <Riddell> jordi: hi
[09:22] <jordi> Riddell: ok, so I need some help from you. Do you think you can give me a list of kubuntu packages in order of "visibility" importance?
[09:23] <jordi> ie, which need to be translated first
[09:23] <jordi> I'm upping kdelibs to max priority first
[09:24] <jordi> more than packages, I need translation domains
[09:24] <jordi> because that's what the list is about
[09:24] <Riddell> jordi: source packages, binary packages or .po files?
[09:24] <Riddell> yeah, so .po files
[09:24] <Riddell> jordi: I'd say all the ones in kdelibs that we ship in language packs then all the ones in kdebase that we ship in language packs
[09:27] <jordi> if we could be a bit more specific, it'd be cool
[09:27] <jordi> I guess the kdelibs template is a lot more important than... ktexteditor-kdatatool or so
[09:28] <Riddell> jordi: I don't have a list of all the .po files from kdelibs/kdebase, can you get that for me?
[09:28] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kdelibs/+translations
[09:29] <Riddell> clever :)
[09:29] <jordi> I mean, if I would say gnome-panel, gnomesession and gtk are the *most* important files for gnome,w hat does that translate in the kde world?
[09:29] <jordi> it doesn't need to be three
[09:29] <jordi> just the stuff that shows more strings in normal usage etc
[09:30] <jordi> I want to do the must have at one level, then the graphical ones at another, then console stuff
[09:31] <jdub> jordi: (is this just for translation priorities, or do you want it to impact the translation stats/tables?)
[09:31] <jordi> it's just the sorting of the templates for now, but I guess there's lots of clever ways of using this data
[09:32] <Riddell> "kdelibs" is most important, then probably kicker, ksmserver and konqueror
[09:32] <Riddell> kdesktop too
[09:32] <jordi> ok
[09:35] <jordi> sorting this out is going to take a while
[09:40] <sladen> Kamion: there's a static string in d-i that reads:  "Make sure that you allocate space for a root partition ("/"), with a minimum size of 1.5 GB, and a swap partition of at least 256 MB."  Does that need to be adjusted?
[09:40] <KaiL> hmm, mostly good comments about the RC - excet quite a lot Sound-Problems and the still not really good WPA support
[09:41] <KaiL> sladen, 1.5GB for ubuntu dapper?!? I don't think, it'll work below 2.5, maybe 3...
[09:55] <jordi> Riddell: how about libkicker*. Are those strings visible?
[09:55] <jordi> visible as the main kicker stuff
[09:55] <Riddell> jordi: yes, that too please
[09:56] <jordi> all of them?
[09:56] <jordi> ie, libkicker-kdeprint
[09:56] <jordi> doesn't sound *so* improtant :P
[09:57] <Riddell> jordi: just libkicker is fine
[09:57] <Riddell> oh and libkickermenu-systemmenu is used by default too
[09:57] <Riddell> libkonq would be good too
[09:58] <jordi> ok
[10:01] <jordi> mdke: ping
[10:01] <dholbach> mdz: ok to upload a new ubuntu-artwork?
[10:02] <jordi> Riddell: names of templates related to the help system you can think of?
[10:07] <mdke> jordi: y0
[10:07] <dholbach> Kamion: ok to upload new ubuntu-artwork?
[10:08] <Kamion> tseng: as ftpmaster for several months I'd never heard of any of the review policies you mention, sorry
[10:09] <Kamion> sladen: it says 2 GB in my source
[10:09] <Kamion> dholbach: what changes?
[10:10] <dholbach> Kamion: new icons from the designer
[10:10] <jordi> mdke: what's the most important doc template, for the 3 flavs?
[10:10] <dholbach> Kamion: fixes two bugs we have
[10:10] <jordi> *desktop?
[10:11] <mdke> jordi: for each three?
[10:11] <dholbach> bug 45168 and bug 34900
[10:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45168 in ubuntu-artwork "Todays update: OpenOffice Draw and Math not consistent with the rest of OOo icons" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45168
[10:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34900 in ubuntu-artwork "desktop icon inconsistency" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34900
[10:11] <jordi> mdke: well they mostly share names right'
[10:11] <Kamion> tseng: removed, anyway
[10:11] <Kamion> dholbach: ok
[10:12] <dholbach> Kamion: merci
[10:12] <mdke> jordi: the serverguide and packaging guide which are in kubuntu and ubuntu are both in rosetta under ubuntu-docs... the desktopguides have been better translated so far than the others, but yeah, they are more important, I suppose. xubuntu only has desktop ;)
[10:12] <mdke> jordi: preface.pot in ubuntu-docs is used for all of them
[10:13] <mvo> anyone here know if it is save to purge ifrename on a upgrade? keybuk?
[10:13] <Kamion> tseng: would you mind talking to Mez and finding out what's up? it was uploaded like three months ago or so, I just couldn't quite face the NEW processing since as you say it was a bit broken - then when I came to it the other day I couldn't really see a cast-iron reason to reject
[10:14] <Kamion> mvo: wanna close bug 46743?
[10:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46743 in gnome-system-tools "Installer crashed during language pack installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46743
[10:15] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[10:16] <Kamion> sladen: (Rosetta might not have been updated, but no worries, I'll munge the strings on import if not)
[10:16] <jordi> mdke: ok I upped those a bit
[10:17] <mdke> jordi: thanks
[10:17] <jordi> enough sorting for today
[10:18] <jordi> I need food and go out a bit
[10:26] <Riddell> jordi: khelpcenter
[10:30] <Kamion> iwj: firefox-themes-ubuntu binary accepted now too
[10:30] <Kamion> will be available in universe from ~1hr from now
[10:34] <mvo> mdz: ok to upload a new dist-upgrader ?
[10:47] <bgertzfield> howdy chip!
[10:47] <ChipX86> hey Ben :)
[10:56] <mvo> hey ChipX86!
[11:14] <skateinmars> hi everybody
[11:15] <skateinmars> I was asking myself, will there be an update for the postegresql-8.1 package? Because the version of this package is 8.3
[11:15] <pygi> skateinmars, no, not for dapper
[11:16] <skateinmars> but the latest version is 8.4, wich fixes security issues
[11:16] <skateinmars> err, ok pygi
[11:16] <skateinmars> thank you for the answer
[11:16] <pygi> skateinmars, if those security bugs are critical fixes might be backported some time in future
[11:17] <Kamion> our postgresql maintainer also runs our security team; I'm confident he'll backport any security fixes that are needed
[11:17] <skateinmars> ok, I'm waiting so
[11:17] <skateinmars> thanks
[11:18] <ChipX86> hey mvo :)
[11:18] <tseng> Kamion: I'll talk to him if i see him again
[11:18] <tseng> Kamion: its been some time
[11:19] <tseng> Kamion: as for the policy, its a general motu rule to upload all NEW packages to revu.tauware.de and get 2 other current motu's to approve of it
[11:19] <tseng> Kamion: I am sure ogra can confirm that.
[11:19] <Kamion> ok but I don't honestly think it's reasonable for ftpmaster to go and check that
[11:19] <Kamion> the volume is too high
[11:19] <tseng> no, I agree
[11:19] <tseng> it should be the job of a MOTU to adhere to it
[11:19] <tseng> he was definately aware of revu
[11:19] <Kamion> no problem with you guys coming round to enforce it post-facto, of course
[11:20] <Kamion> how about libflaim?
[11:20] <tseng> its like a code of honor kind of thing
[11:20] <Kamion> that was the other one of the set
[11:20] <Kamion> it also didn't seem so bad
[11:20] <tseng> libflaim has no use w/o ifolder3
[11:20] <tseng> but indeed, its not as bad
[11:21] <Kamion> I've got no problem with leaving it there to help with locally-packaged versions of ifolder
[11:21] <tseng> I don't see a problem, either
[11:21] <Kamion> it wouldn't be the only unused-by-other-packages library in the archive
[11:21] <tseng> ifolder can come back in edgy on better terms
[11:22] <tseng> perhaps he even meant to upload to revu and horked up his dput
[11:22] <tseng> Kamion: thanks for your time.
[11:24] <bgertzfield> anyone familiar with linux-restricted-modules around? I may have some questions later; making a source package like it at the moment
[11:25] <tseng> bgertzfield: infinity owns it at present
[11:25] <bgertzfield> tseng: many thanks
[11:26] <orph-> i hear this is where the action is
[11:26] <bgertzfield> orph-: well come.
[11:26] <tseng> orph-: nothing terribly exciting, actually.
[11:27] <orph-> tseng: lets spice it up then!
[11:27] <tseng> haha maybe in 2 weeks, after release.
[11:27] <jdub> morning orph-
[11:27] <tseng> I suspect most people have a pounding headache atm
[11:28] <orph-> jdub: hey man
[11:41] <Riddell> Kamion, mdz: around to review ubiquity/qtparted changes?
[11:41] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/qtparted.diff
[11:41] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/ubiquity.diff
[11:42] <Kamion> I'm here for a bit
[11:42] <Riddell> I couldn't work out a way to turn off the medianotified, kdesu and dcop just don't want to talk to each other
[11:43] <Kamion> trying to work out how the qtparted change fixes 46404
[11:43] <Kamion> oh, it was blocking trying to write "0 OK" to stdout or something?
[11:46] <mdke> Riddell: do you know how to get the menu items for kubuntu docs in khelpcenter translated?
[11:46] <zyga> is there any way to translate grub help menu?
[11:46] <Riddell> Kamion: actually I might be getting my bug numbers mixed up there, 46404 was blocking because qtparted wasn't being passed "exit"
[11:46] <zyga> the one seen after pressing f1 in the boot menu?
[11:46] <Riddell> mdke: translate the .desktop files
[11:47] <Kamion> ew, you really need to make qtparted exit when stdin goes away
[11:47] <Kamion> (in edgy now, I guess, but still)
[11:47] <mdke> Riddell: maybe we can do that and add them to the package for -updates?
[11:47] <tseng> mdke: -updates wont go on the release media?
[11:47] <Kamion> Riddell: ubiquity change looks ok, is it in your branch?
[11:48] <mdke> tseng: I don't know, I wouldn't have thought so
[11:48] <Riddell> Kamion: yes
[11:49] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm yet to work out how to get QSocketNotifier to tell me stdin has gone away, it has an exception signal but that doesn't seem to be it
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: right, merged and uploading, thanks
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: go ahead with the qtparted change
[11:55] <zyga> can someone besides pitty kick the automatic daily langpack builds?
[11:55] <Riddell> Kamion: I am right with qtparted being (half the) fix for 46404, it was because it didn't care if it applied the changes or not out just output "0 OK" whatever, now it knows to output "1 Cancel" if it doesn't
[11:55] <Kamion> zyga: don't think so
[11:55] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[11:55] <Kamion> Riddell: right, figures
[11:56] <mvo> Riddell: is kdmtheme manager a application for gnome-app-install?
[11:56] <mvo> (or adept_installer)
[11:57] <Riddell> mvo: kdmtheme or kcontrol-kdmtheme?
[12:08] <jdub> hrmph
[12:08] <jdub> dunno why you'd damage a collector's item like this
[12:08] <jdub> http://www.flickr.com/photos/78122667@N00/153803178/
[12:08] <Kamion> mdz: I've tried out that gparted patch under normal circumstances (all gparted operations work) and it seems to behave fine and issue the right instructions to ubiquity
[12:09] <mdke> jdub: lol
[12:09] <Kamion> mdz: I'm going to be away much of the weekend and I'm not sure I'll have another opportunity, so I'll upload it
[12:11] <mdke> Riddell: so shall I round up some translators to do that, and get them to send the translations to me so I can upload to svn?
[12:13] <Riddell> mdke: sure
[12:13] <mdke> Riddell: do all the translations go in the same file?
[12:13] <mdke> oh yeah
[12:13] <mdke> i see it
[12:14] <mdke> easy
[12:15] <dholbach> anybody from the croatian guys in here? :)
[12:15] <mdke> Riddell: maybe there is even some clever scripting someone could do to get the titles out of the xml files? I bet robotgeek or someone could do that?
[12:15] <Riddell> mdke: worth a shot
[12:15] <mdke> Riddell: cool, thanks
[12:16] <Riddell> 22:57 < Riddell> mvo: kdmtheme or kcontrol-kdmtheme?
[12:16] <mvo> Riddell: kdmtheme
[12:17] <Riddell> mvo: dunno, never used it
[12:17] <Riddell> but I suppose it is
[12:17] <mvo> Riddell: ok, thanks
[12:19] <Riddell> ah, kdmtheme is a duplicate of kcontrol-kdmtheme
[12:20] <Riddell> how do I request for removal?
[12:20] <Kamion> Riddell: file a bug on the package, subscribe ubuntu-archive
[12:20] <dholbach> Riddell: file a bug for 'ubuntu-archive'
[12:20] <lamont> mdz: ping
[12:20] <Kamion> (don't assign ubuntu-archive)
[12:21] <Kamion> Riddell: if you get the chance, have a look at my gparted patch to output "- FORMAT" only on successful creation of the partition - you might want to do something similar in qtparted if you have the time
[12:21] <Kamion> I just uploaded it a few minutes ago
[12:22] <lamont> Kamion: or are you the right guy to get permission from for an upload?
[12:23] <Kamion> might be marginally less of an issue since apparently qtparted creates the filesystems itself - not sure
[12:23] <Kamion> lamont: not right now, am off to bed - send mail if you can't get hold of anyone on IRC, mdz might be out enjoying Friday night in London
[12:24] <Kamion> lamont: better to get permission from mdz at the moment if at all possible
[12:24] <lamont> ok.  46496 - desktop fails to install on headless hppa boxen... needs an || true in an hppa specific place in postinst
[12:24] <lamont> Kamion: ok.. will email mdz cc you
[12:25] <mvo> mdz: I would like to upload a new gnome-app-install (updated desktop files and two bugfixes). is that ok?
[12:26] <Kamion> lamont: subscribe ubuntu-release to that bug
[12:26] <Kamion> that will get our attention
[12:27] <Kamion> lamont: also preferably attach a patch for review
[12:27] <lamont> Kamion: will write one
[12:33] <glick> is there any regulation for nazi channel operators in the main #ubuntu support channel?
[12:35] <mdke> glick: yes. You talk to them in private, then if you can't resolve the issue happily, you look at the Ubuntu dispute resolution mechanism. But usually, you always can resolve it happily
[12:35] <lamont> posted
[12:35] <glick_> mdke: this guy bans people left and right just because i was talking about gnome
[12:35] <glick_> get that?
[12:35] <glick_> i was talking about gnome in #ubuntu
[12:35] <Burgwork> glick_, I would also recommend you use less inflamtory words
[12:35] <mdke> glick_: not here. in private
[12:35] <glick_> which uses gnome
[12:36] <Burgwork> glick_, calling somebody a "nazi" is against the CoC
[12:36] <glick_> he told me to take it elsewhere and i was just like dude, im just talking about gnome to someone
[12:36] <glick_> and he banned me?
[12:36] <glick_> sup with that?
[12:36] <glick_> i think thats agains CoC
[12:36] <mdke> glick_: this channel cannot help you, talk to them about it
[12:36] <mdke> this is not the channel you have been looking for
[12:37] <lamont> glick_: this channel is for discussing ongoing development of ubuntu.
[12:37] <zyga> guys do you think there is any way to make 'Examples' a desktop file + translation?
[12:37] <zyga> so that non-english users will still have a usefull name on their desktop
[12:37] <zyga> and maybe some 'ABOUT THIS FILES' file that says it's okay to remove them by dragging them to the trash
[12:38] <jdub> zyga: unfortunately there are all kinds of problems with that - it's best for us not to use .desktop files outside systemmy locations
[12:38] <dholbach> see you guys - i'm off
[12:38] <zyga> dholbach: bye
[12:38] <sivang> night dholbach
[12:38] <dholbach> bye zyga, sivang
[12:38] <zyga> jdub: so no .desktop files as filesystem pointers yet?
[12:39] <LeeJunFan> yay! I figured out why kde can't mount floppies, and made it work!
[12:39] <LeeJunFan> oops, wrong chan. :p
[12:39] <mdke> sivang: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bzrk
[12:41] <sivang> mdke: hmm, I wonder why ubuntu4 appears both on the "PendingRemoval" and on "Published"
[12:42] <zyga> jdub: I really like the thing osx does to directories about localization
[12:42] <zyga> if there is some .localized.foo file inside them it can override displayable name
[12:42] <mdke> sivang: I think that means that 4 replaced 3
[12:42] <zyga> that solves 99% of such issues
[12:43] <zyga> bye mvo
[12:43] <sivang> night mvo
[12:43] <mvo> bye zyga sivang
[12:44] <sivang> mdke: ah, silly me, it's available and published already for i386
[12:48] <duda_> hello all, i wanna figure out if this is a bug... or a feature :) but i don't know where to look for answers :)
[12:49] <zyga> duda_: hi, go ahead
[12:49] <duda_> in dapper, when i select the switch desktop option, clique on the big red button, i can go to another user
[12:49] <duda_> but when i come back, it throw me to gdm, and at this time, i have to digit my user and pass two times
[12:50] <zyga> duda_: which 'switch desktop' option?
[12:50] <duda_> because after gdm, my sessions seems to be locked...
[12:50] <duda_> switch user, sorry
[12:50] <zyga> did this happen with rc version?
[12:50] <zyga> (release candidate)
[12:50] <duda_> hum i installed dapper a week ago and had made all updates
[12:51] <duda_> isnt the same?
[12:51] <duda_> sorry, im newbie+plus and have a bad english :)
[12:52] <zyga> duda_: after you switch user you should not login agian
[12:52] <duda_> and also translating to my language, brazilian portuguese :)
[12:52] <zyga> you should select options+quit (or similar, I don't use english version ATM)
[12:52] <duda_> in the gdm?
[12:52] <duda_> at the gdm :P
[12:52] <zyga> yes
[12:53] <zyga> yes, exactly
[12:53] <duda_> hummm. let me try ;)
[12:53] <zyga> I'll be back in 15 minutes
[12:53] <duda_> great!
[12:54] <duda_> sorry to take your time with such a simples thing! :P
[01:34] <Burgwork> what the heck is landscape-client?
[01:37] <Kinnison> g'night all
[01:41] <sivang> Burgwork: ?
[01:42] <Burgwork> sivang, a placeholder package just got uploaded and then added to ubuntu-desktop
[01:42] <sivang> Burgwork: hmm, interesting
[01:43] <sivang> Burgwork: well, the package description says it all no?
[01:43] <Burgwork>  landscape-client - Placeholder for the Landscape client
[01:43] <Burgwork> maybe it is the gtk-launchpady thing?
[01:44] <sivang> don't think so:
[01:44] <sivang>  Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang>  systems. Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang>  systems. Landscape is a web-based tool for managing Ubuntu
[01:44] <sivang> err,
[01:44] <sivang> my network is crappy today
[01:45] <Burgwork> hmm
[01:45] <Burgwork> wonder if that is the Ubuntu Center, redubbed
[01:46] <sivang> web interface is even better actually, more universal
[01:46] <Burgwork> yes, but attendant issues
[01:46] <Riddell> Burgwork: ssh, it's super sekret
[01:47] <Burgwork> Riddell, you post to a public mailing list and you claim it is a sekret? :)
[01:47] <sivang> Riddell: heh
[01:47] <sivang> Burgwork: which public list?
[01:47] <Burgwork> ubuntu-changes
[01:47] <mdke> dapper-changes
[01:47] <sivang> ah :)
[01:48] <Burgwork> Riddell, seriously, you have any dirt for us?
[01:48] <sivang> you see, now we caused mdz to vanish :)
[01:49] <Riddell> I know nothing
[01:49] <Burgwork> Riddell, riiggght...
[01:49] <mdke> you mean "nussing"
[01:50] <sivang> let's leave it, we'll all see what it is about I assume after dapper is out.
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39482
[01:51] <sivang> nautlus DND code... man
[01:52] <Riddell> all I know is that they decided not to call the super sekret project Cockfosters
[01:52] <sivang> ha ha ha
[01:52] <Riddell> but that's also the case for Ubuntu
[01:52] <mdke> people find Cockfosters funny, except people who live there
[01:53] <sivang> there's a place like this?
[01:53] <zul> heylo
[01:53] <mdke> sure, you can't make a name like that up
[01:53] <Burgwork> sivang, it is a stsop on the Underground
[01:53] <Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfosters
[01:54] <mdke> Burgwork: they named the stop after the place
[01:54] <mdke> as with most stops
[01:54] <Burgwork> mdke, yep, but the original joke was about the station
[02:21] <sivang> night all
[02:25] <tseng> bye sivang
[02:26] <tseng> "this train is for cockfosters"
[03:05] <Burgundavia> whiprush, those of us in #edubuntu were discussing the other day about a "thin client mode" to display the fancy bling
[03:27] <zakame> hi all
[03:30] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:34] <zakame> fabbione: pong
[03:35] <zakame> fabbione: pong
[03:36] <zul> he might have gone to bed zakame
[03:41] <zakame> er my irssi got stuck :/
[04:15] <whiprush> Burgundavia: oh really?
[04:18] <Burgundavia> whiprush, yep. I didn't realize that gnome doc existed
[04:18] <Burgundavia> we were thinking about memory usage and I was esposing a long term plan to merge Xfce and Gnome
[04:19] <whiprush> the problem with alot of the upstream gnome docs is tha it's not easy to contribute, vs. say, ubuntu documentation.
[04:20] <whiprush> I was a "gnome admin" for 6 months before I found that documentation.
[04:20] <neuralis> which is this?
[04:20] <whiprush> the gnome system administrator guide.
[04:20] <Burgundavia> the other side of that is that companies usually hack their own stuff up, like we have
[04:21] <whiprush> to add to the problem, RH, Novell, and Sun have redundant documentation on the same subject.
[04:21] <Burgundavia> actually pessulus is a great thing for gnome-love to work on
[04:21] <whiprush> you have to read all 4 to really figure it out.
[04:21] <Burgundavia> I think that was because there was no community doc effort
[04:22] <Burgundavia> it was all lead by the teams for those companies
[04:22] <Burgundavia> the community effort is only now starting up
[04:22] <whiprush> yes, all 4 documents are historical artifacts.
[04:23] <whiprush> ideally it'd all be an upstream gnome document.
[04:23] <Burgundavia> the other place that has suffered in the same way is the configuration tools
[04:23] <ghee22> speaking of gnome documentation, I'm working on the welcome center for ubuntu.  this documentation really helps by not "recreating the wheel".  I noticed QuickTourDraft in the ubuntu wiki.  Regarding this, I have a question:  How do I access UbuntuDocumentationTeam svn repo?  Reason I ask is because the latest tour, according to the wiki is here: "The doc is now in the ?UbuntuDocumentationTeam svn repo, in the quicktour dir in the
[04:24] <Burgundavia> ghee22, join #ubuntu-doc
[04:24] <ghee22> thank you Burg
[04:25] <ghee22> are you Burgundavia on ubuntu forums?  (corey?)
[04:25] <Burgundavia> ghee22, yep
[04:25] <ghee22> got it  :o)
[05:08] <ajmitch> afternoon
[05:08] <Burgundavia> salut ajmitch
[05:33] <bockman> there is a bad security problem in Breezy/Hoary for openvpn (Bug #45827). i emailed the listed maintainer, but he says he doesn't work for ubuntu. how can i get this fixed?
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827
[05:35] <Burgundavia> bockman, you need to ask the MOTUs to look into it. #ubuntu-motu
[05:35] <bockman> ok, thank you
[06:13] <jsgotangco> argghh
[06:17] <ajmitch> hi jsgotangco :)
[11:22] <janimo> ping
[11:26] <ploum> pong
[11:28] <janimo> ploum: saw the silence and was tetsing whether I got disconnected :)
[11:29] <ploum> janimo: you are disconnected. I'm a poltergeist haunting your computer
[11:30] <janimo> Kamio,: infinity, xubuntu desktop cd seems to install gnome-session and gnome libs again via gdm. IIRC there was a workaround at the servers to apt-get install xterm gdm for xubuntu, did it go away?
[11:30] <janimo> ploum: I am scared. Happy :) ?
[11:31] <seb128> janimo: could you fix thunar to not claim a non-existant mimetype and breaking GNOME?
[11:31] <janimo> btw can the poltergeist confirm LP is down?
[11:31] <seb128> or should I?
[11:32] <seb128> and yeah, launchpad == proxy error
[11:32] <janimo> seb128: I wanted to link to xfce upstream bug but LP is down
[11:32] <janimo> a moment
[11:32] <ploum> indeed, LP is down..
[11:33] <nomed> seb128, does "open with gvim" work in gnome?
[11:33] <janimo> seb128: http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1854
[11:33] <Ubugtu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 1854 in general "thunar taking over from nautilus" [Normal,Assigned]
[11:33] <seb128> nomed: why wouldn't it?
[11:33] <nomed> it doesn't in thunar
[11:33] <janimo> ploum: btw poltergeists make noise, somewaht in contradiction with my noticing of silence on the channel ;)
[11:34] <ploum> janimo: haven't you see the chair moving in your room ?  ;-)
[11:36] <nomed> janimo, did u set orage instead of the clock plugin at the end ?
[11:36] <seb128> janimo: seems you people are not trying to read what I said on the bug
[11:36] <janimo> ploum: oh, I tought it was the wind
[11:36] <seb128> janimo: I'll have to fix that package myself :/
[11:37] <seb128> janimo: a directory is "x-directory/normal"
[11:37] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not mentionned to /usr/share/mime
[11:37] <janimo> nomed: no, because I think the clock plugin is simpler and enough. orage is an extra porcess running. So did not think it was important enough to change
[11:37] <janimo> nomed: are there some really compelling reasons
[11:37] <nomed> the calendar ..
[11:38] <nomed> but nothing really important ..
[11:38] <nomed> i just didn't know if it was a choice ..
[11:38] <janimo> seb128: I have read what you said, I just want to make sure we fix it right if it needs a fix
[11:38] <janimo> seb128:  and I am not convinced it needs a fix yet
[11:39] <seb128> janimo: I'll not let Ubuntu broken for dapper because you don't want to fix your package
[11:39] <janimo> nomed: I think the calendar is not that important for most people as to bee in the default panel. (Just noticed recentl;y we do not even build it with iCal support, since libical is not in ubuntu)
[11:39] <seb128> janimo: if you don't do that change I'm going to do it
[11:39] <janimo> seb128: please keep it techincal
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: you have no technical argument to reply to what I explained
[11:40] <janimo> seb128: I am tired of kneejerk reactions instead of real discussion
[11:40] <janimo> seb128: my argument is, that installed packages do not themselves set the policy
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: I explained my point on the bug you could have replied
[11:40] <janimo> it's the user that does it
[11:40] <seb128> janimo: not true
[11:40] <janimo> I found the xfce bugzilla comment convincing
[11:41] <seb128> it's just wrong
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype
[11:41] <janimo> is that not a gnome-independent thing?
[11:41] <seb128> grep to /usr/share/mime if you are not convinced
[11:41] <janimo> regardless if it's a mimetype or not. Is it gnome specific?
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/normal" is the mimetype for a directory
[11:41] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" as the name indicated it is something used internally by GNOME
[11:42] <janimo> seb128: ok, I am not familiar with the places plugin etc. What does it call actually?
[11:42] <seb128> not a public interface to play with
[11:42] <seb128> gnome-open file:....
[11:42] <janimo> it is supposed to be opened by nautilus?
[11:42] <nomed> seb128, did u assign that bug to xubuntu-team ?
[11:42] <seb128> ok, let me explain you how mimetype associations work
[11:42] <seb128> nomed: I did
[11:42] <seb128> nomed: is that wrong? that's thunar bug
[11:43] <nomed> seb128, no no it's not worng .
[11:43] <nomed> i wanted just to see what that issue is :)
[11:43] <seb128> janimo: apps ship a .desktop to /usr/share/applications, that .desktop has a MimeType=... list with the mimetypes supported by the app
[11:43] <nomed> and launchpad is down ...
[11:43] <seb128> janimo: update-desktop-database does an index
[11:44] <seb128> ou get something like
[11:44] <seb128> $ grep html /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache
[11:44] <seb128> text/html=epiphany.desktop;bluefish.desktop;firefox.desktop;
[11:44] <seb128>
[11:44] <seb128> ie Mimetype=<list of apps for it>
[11:44] <seb128> that's the choice suggested for nautilus right click menu by example
[11:45] <seb128> then you can set a default with /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:45] <seb128> like
[11:45] <seb128> $ grep directory /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:45] <seb128> inode/directory=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:45] <seb128> x-directory/normal=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:45] <seb128> janimo: that list sets the system default for GNOME
[11:45] <janimo> seb128: so far I am following
[11:45] <seb128> (you could make a different defaults-xfce.list if you want)
[11:45] <seb128> janimo: the mimetype are defined to /usr/share/mime
[11:46] <janimo> seb128: /etc/xdg/xubuntu/applications/defaults.list already have it for a while
[11:46] <seb128> $ gnomevfs-info Desktop
[11:46] <seb128> Name              : Desktop
[11:46] <seb128> Type              : Directory
[11:46] <seb128> MIME type         : x-directory/normal
[11:46] <seb128> Default app       : nautilus-folder-handler.desktop
[11:46] <seb128>
[11:46] <seb128> note
[11:46] <seb128> "MIME type         : x-directory/normal"
[11:46] <seb128>
[11:46] <seb128> now you will not find "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" to /usr/share/mime
[11:46] <seb128> that's not a public mimetype
[11:46] <seb128> and not something you should play with
[11:46] <seb128> you should just use "x-directory/normal"
[11:46] <seb128> which would do what you want, associate with a directory
[11:47] <seb128> and NOT break GNOME
[11:47] <janimo> seb128: mind you it does NOT break gnome. If users install thunar that is no longer gnome it's a mixed environment
[11:48] <seb128> janimo: so now your turn to explain why I'm wrong
[11:48] <seb128> janimo: it plays with some GNOME private time
[11:48] <seb128> s/time/type
[11:48] <seb128> k, I give up
[11:48] <janimo> seb128: first I have so far not said you were wrong, just was not convinced you were right either
[11:48] <seb128> do whatever you like, I'll fix that myself
[11:48] <janimo> seb128: I was going to continue
[11:48] <seb128> k
[11:48] <seb128> so please do
[11:49] <janimo> seb128, please install thunar first
[11:49] <janimo> see it has not MIME types in it's desktop file
[11:49] <janimo> I also did not set the gnome-directory in defaults.list as I copied it from usr/share where it is not listed
[11:50] <janimo> bugzilla comment says firefox uses that x-gnome-direcory handler
[11:51] <janimo> to call out to a file manager
[11:51] <janimo> and if thunar does not handle it it cannot be called from firefox
[11:51] <seb128> I doubt of that
 see it has not MIME types in it's desktop file
[11:51] <seb128> $ grep MimeType /usr/share/applications/Thunar-folder-handler.desktop
[11:51] <seb128> MimeType=x-directory/gnome-default-handler;x-directory/normal;inode/directory;
[11:52] <janimo> the rest of that comment seems very clear to me as well
[11:52] <janimo> if gnoome panel want to use nautilus it should not call it via an indirection which it would not want
[11:53] <seb128> hum
[11:53] <janimo> seb128: ok I looked at Thunar.desktop only, my bad
[11:53] <seb128> let's start again