[00:49] <AskUbuntu> Nexux 7 stcuk on Google screen Ubuntu Touch | http://askubuntu.com/q/374740
[01:22] <sarthor> HI, I have note 2, I want to install Ubuntu on it, Did some one try before, I do not want to install ubuntu as guest, Will it be guest and Will I be able to use ubuntu with the help of some vnc client? or Will it be base install?
[01:22] <sarthor> Samsung Note II.
[03:08] <Daughain> Is there a working install for the new N7 tab yet?
[04:59] <Guest41619> hi I need some help installing touch on samsung tab
[05:01] <Guest41619> I just bought a samsung galaxy tab 3 7.0 and I can't get the adb to work... I can't find the bootloader either... any help?
[05:02] <Guest41619> AskUbuntu... hi
[05:53] <AskUbuntu> how to restore android in xperia s | http://askubuntu.com/q/374802
[07:54] <timppa> Would it be a major pain in the butt to add a way for System-settings to traverse /home/phablet/Ringtones for user added ringtones?
[09:16] <jockerfox> Hi to all, if is possible know: when ubuntu touch is ready for nexs7 '2013' ?
[10:19] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu Touch Official Hardware? | http://askubuntu.com/q/374861
[11:35] <denisw> hi. i'm trying to check out the ubuntu-filemanager-app on my 13.10 desktop, but it complains about a missing module
[11:35] <denisw> qml-folderlistmodel
[11:35] <denisw> where do i get that from?
[11:37] <denisw> nevermind, found out from the README
[13:43] <palpate> Hi
[13:46] <palpate> Is it possible to install a working version of ubuntu touch on an asus transformer tf 101 ?
[13:50] <palpate> I tried it when it was in developer preview but it wasn't useable at this time
[13:50] <t1mp> palpate: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices it is listed as work in progress
[13:51] <t1mp> palpate: more info here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/tf101
[13:51] <palpate> Yes but I wanted to know if it is useable (if somebody tried recently)
[13:53] <t1mp> ok
[13:53] <t1mp> I haven't tried it, so unfortunately I cannot answer your question.
[14:07] <TechieElf> Hello everyone
[14:08] <TechieElf> Regarding porting, may I pick up someone else's project? I have a tweet from them saying they have given up.
[14:21] <TechieElf> Sorry, I'm back now. Any thoughts?
[15:21] <AskUbuntu> Problem installation | http://askubuntu.com/q/374993
[16:05] <kiri_> This is 1 dead chat room
[16:06] <Myrtti> it's the weekend
[16:07] <Myrtti> what did you expect
[16:07] <kiri_> something more w this many users
[16:10] <Myrtti> on the weekend? unlikely
[16:11] <kiri_> So I am assuming ppl just keep this open n stay logged on?
[16:11] <Myrtti> yup
[16:12] <Myrtti> the whole freenode traffic peaks on normal weekdays
[16:12] <kiri_> ic
[16:35] <AskUbuntu> Test Ubuntu Touch | http://askubuntu.com/q/375028
[16:58] <ddsss> When can I buy tablet with  ubuntu touch preinstalle?
[17:02] <kiri_> my advice is wait
[17:02] <ddsss> kiri_, any time estimates?
[17:02] <kiri_> unless you r wanting n know how to develop i wouldnt bother yet
[17:03] <kiri_> It is still very limited and a lot of ppl r working on apps as we speak (myself included)
[17:03] <ddsss> kiri_, what app r u workin on (just curious)?
[17:03] <kiri_> lol, its actually just a app about my wife for 1 of my classes
[17:04] <ddsss> kiri_, hmmm....:)
[17:04] <kiri_> ya, i figured it would be cute n would prob give me sum bonus pts w her
[17:06] <ddsss> kiri_, k
[17:07] <ddsss> kiri_, are those apps installable via regular app-get?
[17:08] <kiri_> no not unless they r published
[17:08] <kiri_> viaubuntu or url
[17:14] <ddsss> is there any blog or rss feed on ubuntu touch OS dev. progress?
[17:15] <kiri_> not really sure I kinda do my own thing
[17:16] <ddsss> kiri_, I know - hot new app with your hot wifi
[17:16] <ddsss> s/wifi/wife/
[17:17] <ddsss> :)
[17:36] <dustingooding> howdy all.  just got my N5 and now my NS4G is lonely.  thought it could use some Touch love.   any idea when more devices (like the NS4G) will be supported?
[18:07] <newUser21541> 9 hours later, I managed to install a very beta form of ubuntu touch on my galaxy s2 >.>
[18:07] <newUser21541> The amazing difference between the galaxy s2 i727 rogers vs ATT was way too much and I didn't even bother to look up the ROGERS edition
[18:09] <newUser21541> (couldn't get into download mode or bootloader mode easily, the odin as such didn't work).... zergrush file was getting deleted by my antivirus and so on and so forth. would be awesome if this entire process was  reduced to mere clicks.
[18:24] <jodue> does anybody here know if there are any plans for official support of the nexus 5?
[18:25] <jodue> as the edge is (sadly) off the table (at least for now) i am wondering which device to choose to have the best possible ubuntu touch support in the near future ...
[18:35] <beuno> jodue, the Nexus 4 has and will have the best support
[18:35] <beuno> so that's the safest bet
[18:37] <jodue> yes, i do know that but i don't want to invest in old hardware. especially since the new nexus 5 is only a little bite more expensive than the nexus 4
[18:38] <beuno> jodue, right, currently there's no official support for anything else
[18:39] <beuno> it's not clear if the Nexus 5 will be supported
[18:40] <Tassadar> beuno: do you work for Canonical? Do you know when (at least approximately) will it be decided?
[18:40] <Tassadar> I'm kinda struggling with the same thing - N4 has Ubuntu Touch and bigger community, but N5 is newer and better device :/
[18:41] <beuno> Tassadar, I do work for Canonical, and there's no target date. It may be months, as the current cycle will focus strongly on the tablet story
[18:41] <Tassadar> meh, N4 it is, then
[18:41] <Tassadar> thanks)
[18:41] <beuno> I suspect that unless the N5 is easy to support, we won't this cycle
[18:42] <jodue> okay. thank you very much for this information. in this case i will hold off on the nexus 5 and wait for any news on this as i definitly want my next device to have official ubuntu touch support!
[18:42] <beuno> maybe the N4's will get cheaper now that the N5 is out
[18:42] <Tassadar> I suppose it would require you to switch to 4.4 android base, because of the binaries, and well, I guess that's not happening anytime soon
[18:42] <beuno> especially in the used market
[18:42] <beuno> so that may be a good stop-gap
[18:48] <H4R0> Hello
[19:25] <JHOSMAN> Hello, I need urgent help, as I can install my application in HTML5 for Ubuntu Touch? I have my aplicación.click
[19:29] <JHOSMAN> see http://paste.ubuntu.com/6395602/
[19:37] <cwayne> JHOSMAN: push it to the phone with adb (adb push /path/to/click /home/phablet)
[19:37] <cwayne> then adb shell
[19:37] <cwayne> then su - phablet
[19:37] <cwayne> then pkcon install-local /home/phablet/whatever.click
[19:41] <JHOSMAN> cwayne:
[19:41] <JHOSMAN> Installing files              [[19:41] <JHOSMAN> Installing files              [[19:42] <JHOSMAN> Starting                      [[19:42] <JHOSMAN> now??? cwayne
[19:54] <tiberiu> hello
[19:57] <futurestack> any reason ssh wouldn't be working?
[19:57] <futurestack> `ssh localhost` connection refused
[19:58] <futurestack> after installing ssh openssh-server and /etc/init.d/ssh restart
[19:58] <JHOSMAN> in my phone the HTML5App not use 100% of anchor
[19:58] <futurestack> sshing to the ip also does not work, doesn't seem to be an interfaces issue
[20:01] <futurestack> I've tried doing apt updates and apt upgrades but that seems to render the phone unbootable
[20:19] <futurestack> nothing particularly oddlooking in sshd_config ...
[20:26] <Rudde> Does ubuntu touch work as a fullwordy OS like it was showen in the Ubuntu Edge video? At this time?
[20:26] <JHOSMAN> cwayne: howto remove a AppClick?
[20:36] <futurestack> I can ssh out of the phone just fine, but that's not really what I want to use it for...
[21:25] <futurestack> bbl
[23:11] <Nothing_Much> I can't remember whether I asked this question or not: Is it possible to use libhybris for an armhf desktop on Ubuntu?
[23:26] <xnox> Nothing_Much: what do you mean "armhf desktop" ?
[23:27] <Nothing_Much> xnox: I mean I'm on a desktop computer that uses the Arm architecture.
[23:27] <xnox> Nothing_Much: libhybris allows bi-direction calls between glibc based applications/libraries and android/bionic based ones.
[23:27] <xnox> Nothing_Much: then use ubuntu direct, if you have graphics drivers for it.
[23:28] <Nothing_Much> xnox: Yes I know, but from what I've heard-
[23:28] <xnox> Nothing_Much: if you only have android-targeted graphics drivers, that's when libhybris comes in.
[23:28] <Nothing_Much> I have Android drivers for 3D acceleration
[23:28] <Nothing_Much> I just don't know how to get them utilized
[23:29] <Nothing_Much> xnox: How do I get libhybris to work with my Android drivers?
[23:29] <Nothing_Much> Because there are no drivers for the SGX 544
[23:29] <Nothing_Much> For Linux that is
[23:30] <Nothing_Much> So I found the Android drivers, but I can't get them configured or something
[23:30] <xnox> it's not trivial. you still need full android build present somewhere in a chroot, and it needs to be modified to work with hybris
[23:30] <xnox> and you need hybris support on ubuntu side.
[23:30] <Nothing_Much> Is there a tutorial?
[23:30] <xnox> no.
[23:30] <TechieElf> Hello all. Is it possible for me to take over someone's port? They tweeted me saying they're no longer working on ubuntu touch.
[23:30] <Nothing_Much> Well, I have libhybris installed on this Ubuntu machine
[23:31] <Nothing_Much> TechieElf: I think you'd have to look at the license the program is under
[23:31] <xnox> sure but everything needs to use, which none of it does at the moment.
[23:32] <Nothing_Much> xnox: You sure about that? There's a small tutorial on how to get libhybris working with XMBC or something
[23:32] <TechieElf> Nothing_Much where can I find such a license?
[23:32] <Nothing_Much> But I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong
[23:32] <Nothing_Much> TechieElf: You'd have to ask the author of the program and check what license the program is under
[23:33] <Nothing_Much> After that I couldn't tell you what to do, you have to get into contact with author and ask him about forking
[23:35] <TechieElf> Alright. I'll send him a tweet. Also, any idea about how I could work on the port? I'm used to starting from scratch
[23:37] <Nothing_Much> I couldn't tell ya, I'm not a developer.
[23:38] <TechieElf> Any developers active here?
[23:40] <xnox> TechieElf: late night on sunday is not the best time =) most people are active here tuesday - thursday
[23:41] <TechieElf> xnox i get that :p
[23:41] <bkh> hey, I got trusty installed on a gen 1 nexus 7 but I keep getting weird issues, so I'm trying to downgrade to saucy
[23:41] <bkh> I can't seem to get into fastboot
[23:41] <bkh> it always just goes back to ubuntu
[23:48] <xnox> bkh: once in ubuntu, you don't need to get to fastboot. Just use phablet flash and specify saucy channel for ubuntu-systemimage
[23:52] <bkh> how do I do that?
[23:54] <bkh> wait, I think I have it


[02:14] <cyberanger> wow, didn't think I could do all that I did from a netbook today (I know how powerful they can be, setup tweaks, but I had vlc's ncurses player playing a song, ffmpeg converting it to mp3 & scaning an external drive with clamav, at the same time, no fail)
[02:14] <cyberanger> plus ssh'd in here, for irc & email
[02:14] <cyberanger> thanks to debuntu ;-)
[02:16] <Unit193> Mutt?
[02:17] <wrst> cyberanger: is this a new distro?
[02:18] <Unit193> Debian/Ubuntu Tips & Tricks
[02:18] <Unit193> Debuntu.org: .deb packages, Unix/Linux Tutorials and Articles.
[02:18] <wrst> ahh
[02:18]  * wrst feels a little silly now :)
[02:22] <cyberanger> Unit193: yep, my mutt
[02:23] <cyberanger> wrst: that   blog is merely an inspiritation to the joke (when I said I was all debian testing, forgot about this machine aperently, fixing)
[02:29] <wrst> cyberanger, Unit193 had good weekends?
[02:31] <cyberanger> sorta good
[02:31] <Unit193> Don't think anything big Sat, but today there was much good grub :D
[02:31] <wrst> Unit193: that's what i'm talking about!
[02:32] <cyberanger> wrst: you know how I do cli installs, little diff with debian or ubuntu at that level, did this all in cli (trying to be a showoff, then vista got involved, fubar from there)
[02:33] <wrst> cyberanger: really no difference best i can tell from ubuntu cli and debian, i think debian might have less things to get in the way making it easier actually
[02:33] <wrst> and vista???
[02:33] <Unit193> I use SSH and stuff to mess with the volume on Vista, it can be funny to get people :D
[02:33] <wrst> Unit193: vista and ssh?
[02:34] <Unit193> Why not? Granted, it's not as good as Linux SSH, but it works nevertheless
[02:34] <Unit193> And it's the first OS I used SSH on
[02:34] <wrst> i have seen that it is available just didn't know what the use would be
[02:34] <cyberanger> wrst: yeah, church, not my call (virus too, made it a pain?)
[02:34] <wrst> oh yeah cyberanger i know how that goes
[02:36] <cyberanger> wrst: well, your problem is a assuming there is a use, sometimes there is no use, it was a coding challenge, and now an annoyance tool
[02:39] <wrst> :)
[02:41] <Unit193> nircmd + ssh = :D
[02:41] <cyberanger> Unit193: there's stunts you can do without nircmd too, just default stuff
[02:42] <cyberanger> my favorite two are editing the hosts file & disabiling dns
[02:42] <Unit193> cyberanger: Oh yes, but nircmd can also be used to mess with people :D
[02:42] <cyberanger> followed by the rare but cruel triggering a BSoD (doesn't take much, sadly, no bragging rights)
[02:46] <cyberanger> Unit193: indeed
[02:47] <cyberanger> just like a screw driver & a phunematic(sp) door closer, slow it down and make people think their being followed
[02:57] <binarymutant> idk if /tmp is considered a chroot enviroment...
[02:59] <binarymutant> debuntu.org ... not sure about
[03:22] <cyberanger> binarymutant: say what?
[03:23] <binarymutant> first page debuntu.org article
[03:24] <binarymutant> I think I read it wrong though
[03:27] <cyberanger> binarymutant: "How-To: Mounting /dev in a chroot environment"
[03:27] <cyberanger> that article?
[03:27] <binarymutant> yes
[03:30] <cyberanger> doesn't sound wrong to me, based on my use of chroot for remastering live discs
[03:31] <cyberanger> they're just messing with files in a chroot jail, the files happen to be in tmp instead of $HOME/livedisc/chroot (when I do it)
[03:31] <binarymutant> yeah I always do it in a dir in $HOME
[03:32] <binarymutant> $project/debian/  :D
[03:32] <cyberanger> but I don't think one has to, don't think anything is wrong with tmp, depends on if the data is temporary or not
[03:33] <cyberanger> if not, well, expect data loss
[03:33] <binarymutant> like I said, I probably just read it wrong. I thought they were saying /tmp was a chroot env
[03:58] <cyberanger> no (it might be, but that's not what they're saying, they're using it as a chroot "mountpoint" same as we use $HOME)
[15:02] <electricus> uggh. why use selinux?
[16:15] <cyberanger> electricus: good question, will AppArmor not work enough for you?
[16:15] <cyberanger> "Let me assure you that this action by the NSA was the crypto-equivalent of the Pope  coming down off the balcony in Rome, working the crowd with a few loaves of bread and some fish, and then inviting everyone to come over to his place to watch the soccer game and have a few beers. There are some things that one just never expects to see, and the NSA handing out source code along with details of
[16:15] <cyberanger>  the security mechanism behind it was right up there on that list." — Larry Loeb
[16:16] <electricus> i always disable it, but it's on by default in centos
[16:16] <electricus> i figure linux is plenty secure without having selinux
[16:16] <electricus> i've never been hacked
[16:18]  * cyberanger sees that challenge, ponders a bit
[16:20] <cyberanger> electricus: selinux is a good thing, but with LIDS, Bastille Unix & AppArmour, idk if it's a necessary thing
[16:21] <electricus> i don't know if i'm using any of those .. how can i tell?
[16:23] <cyberanger> I mean, everybody ships with defaults, I tweak them with iptables, throw in arpalert & have the alert script isolate them from the network
[16:23] <cyberanger> others really lock it down further, what are you needing to lock down, from whom
[16:26] <cyberanger> you'd have to know for Bastille Unix & LIDS, nature of their setup
[16:27] <cyberanger> apparmour.....lemme see here...
[16:29] <cyberanger> electricus: did you build your own package, pretty good bet you only had selinux
[16:30] <electricus> default install of centos6
[16:30] <electricus> sorry ubuntu guys :-)
[16:31] <cyberanger> electricus: like I said, pretty good bet you only had selinux
[16:31] <electricus> regarding another machine.. my kvm host:  I am using an additional 1tb disk as an additional volume group named vm_stor
[16:32] <electricus> i have put all my kvm guests raw disk images there on lvm
[16:33] <electricus> strangely enough though.. even though the vms are all running away.. the volume is not even mounted as far as i can tell
[16:33] <electricus> here's my mounts;  http://pastebin.com/kFTiWxZW
[16:35] <cyberanger> electricus: ~# lvs
[16:40] <cyberanger> electricus: ^ see if the volume is listed
[16:40] <cyberanger> electricus: and I'd be looking at "df -h" output, looking at what doesn't fit
[16:41] <electricus> here you go
[16:41] <electricus> http://pastebin.com/87c1pKfk
[16:42] <electricus> actually check this one out.. shows /dev/mapper too
[16:42] <electricus> http://pastebin.com/J4GstyS8
[16:42] <electricus> i'm also in the middle of a snapshot
[16:43] <electricus> i think the nuances are related to the way proxmox-ve distro has set things up
[16:43] <electricus> you manage it mostly with a web gui and i think that's why it might be a little different than the way it normally may be
[16:47] <cyberanger> electricus: no signs vm_stor in use, clearly see two out of three from pve (and reasonable to surmise the third (swap) is in use too
[16:48] <electricus> what about /dev/mapper ?
[16:49] <electricus> it's showing the disks for 102 and 103 and the snapshot in progress
[16:49] <electricus> i'm just new to all this lvm stuff.
[16:50] <electricus> i like it..but i don't know enough about it.  just keep reading ..just keep reading .. I know :-)
[16:50] <cyberanger> /dev/mapper/vm_stor-vm-102-disk-1
[16:50] <cyberanger> for example ^
[16:51] <electricus> yes
[16:51] <electricus> that is a live running vm..
[16:51] <cyberanger> electricus: lvm is one I'm still working out at times too (rsync I've got down ;-))
[16:51] <electricus> that is actually my new mail server i worked so hard on
[16:51] <electricus> haha..
[16:51] <electricus> i understand
[16:51] <cyberanger> /dev/mapper/vm_stor-vm-103-disk-1 ?
[16:52] <electricus> well what is most awesome about it is that i'm taking a full snapshot of the machine right now (while it's running) and dumping it onto external storage :-)
[16:52] <electricus> how cool is that!
[16:52] <electricus> and you can also move volumes around from machine to machine with no downtime
[16:53] <electricus> what's weird is looking at the ls -l output and it shows "brw-rw---- 1 root disk 253,  3 "
[16:54] <cyberanger> LV               VG      Attr   LSize   Origin        Snap%  Move Log Copy%  Convert
[16:54] <electricus> i'm assuming the 'b' is block device and then you have the blocks and sectors instead of size and so forth
[16:54] <cyberanger> vzsnap-proxmox-0 vm_stor swi-ao   1.00G vm-102-disk-1  11.52
[16:55] <electricus> ya..isn't that cool
[16:55] <electricus> i guess you don't mount lvm raw in the traditional sense necessarily
[16:56] <electricus> well..anyway, i'm heading to lunch
[16:56] <electricus> later
[16:56] <cyberanger> that suggests your backup is going well, it's making it's own logical volume for snapshots, I'm aware of snapshots, but I just rsync one partition (/var/www/mirror) and some files in /etc (mostly pertaining to bind9 squid & apache)
[16:57] <cyberanger> electricus: seems lvm has something else in mind, yes
[16:57] <cyberanger> and uh, good luck at a 4pm lunch
[19:00] <wrst> howdy everyone
[19:15] <cyberanger> Bonjour wrst
[19:23] <wrst> cyberanger: how you doing?
[19:45] <cyberanger> wrst: not much atm
[19:45] <cyberanger> bonjour cosmicpizza
[19:45] <cyberanger> hola average_guy
[19:45] <cosmicpizza> hey cyberanger
[19:45] <average_guy> hello cyberanger
[19:46] <wrst> cyberanger: that's a good thing i hope
[19:46] <wrst> howdy, average_guy cosmicpizza
[19:46] <cyberanger> How's everybody doing
[19:46] <average_guy> Hi wrst
[19:47]  * wrst is doing well for a monday
[19:47] <cyberanger> wrst: old chinese curse "May you live in intresting times" followed by new american curse (Great Recession inspired) "May you endlessly look for work"
[19:47] <average_guy> I'm doing pretty good today, how are you guys?
[19:48] <cyberanger> tossed with the lack of renewal on another computer project (this one is not a suprise, company wanting the work is in a rocky spott too)
[19:51] <cyberanger> average_guy: reasonably well
[19:55] <average_guy> I have talked in here much lately because I been using win7 fairly exclusively
[19:56] <average_guy> this is the first I've really messed with it
[19:57] <wrst> average_guy: don't let that keep you from commenting :)
[19:57] <wrst> how do you like it?
[19:57] <average_guy> I appreciate how well all of microsoft's applications integrate together
[20:00] <average_guy> most linux ppl are windows bashers, no me so much
[20:01] <average_guy> I prefer linux tho
[20:01] <wrst> average_guy: i'm no windows fan but to so its total crap is a little bit not exactly true
[20:01] <wrst> well vista was :)
[20:04] <average_guy> I've never actually seen vista wrst.  I've heard a lotta negative comments about it though.  Seems like it was pretty much just a test platform for a lot of the features now available in 7
[20:05] <wrst> average_guy: it was awful
[20:06] <average_guy> I am a big fan of XP.  It is the first OS I really learned inside and out
[20:06] <wrst> thing that bothers me about MS is how they do a awful release followed with a fairly solid release seems to be hwo they do it
[20:06] <average_guy> Well wrst, most linux distros are the same
[20:07] <average_guy> they do lots of small releases testing new things (like unity) and then they do a major release
[20:09] <average_guy> the diffrence is that with Microsoft, if you spent the money on an in-between release (like vista or ME) yer boned
[20:10] <average_guy> Microsoft is not too bad as long as you have a zillion dollars to spend
[20:10] <wrst> yeah average_guy and ubuntu well tell you to use the LTS on large deployments
[20:11] <wrst> *will tell
[20:11] <average_guy> Yeah wrst, Microsoft won't TELL you
[20:12] <wrst> plus you aren't out money just aggervation
[20:13] <wrst> if you stay with somthing like RHEL, Debian stable, Ubuntu LTS you are going to have a solid solid system
[20:13] <wrst> oh cyberanger I am liking debian more and more the more I use it
[20:14] <average_guy> tru, and don't get me wrong, I still believe linux is far superior
[20:15] <wrst> oh average_guy but the thing is use what works best for you :)
[20:15] <wrst> there are applications where windows may be the best choice
[20:16] <average_guy> I believe open-source is really the only way for good stable code to evolve
[21:44] <binarymutant> +1M
[22:24] <cyberanger> average_guy: I have been using debian fairly exclusively, hasn't kept me from commenting on my opinions of ubuntu & win7 (it's Microsuck, and ubuntu's going down a dead alley blind, in reguards to unity)
[22:25] <cyberanger> granted, I'm also a loudmouth, so take my comments with a grain of salt
[22:25] <cyberanger> wrst: testing or stable?
[22:27] <average_guy> I like debian cyberanger, and I take everything with a grain of salt
[22:28] <cyberanger> average_guy: lol, cool (and maybe take two grains for me then, lol) testing or stable?
[22:30] <average_guy> I have debian-stable on one of my machines cyberanger
[22:31] <average_guy> I prefer arch though
[22:31] <average_guy> this week..
[22:34] <cyberanger> average_guy: I like the similarities to arch & debian testing, seems I've got a debian leaning (after years of that, plus projects that meddle with key debian components, like apt)
[22:35] <johnhaitas> distro flamewar?
[22:38] <cyberanger> johnhaitas: so far I don't think so, but different opinions on the distros we use, perhaps
[22:38] <cyberanger> now, if I had time to get started on unity & centos, I think we could have a flamewar
[22:41] <cyberanger> why do I keep presuming I'm gonna leave a work site on time :-/
[22:42] <average_guy> I flame no distro, to each his own..
[22:42] <johnhaitas> average_guy: good policy
[22:42] <johnhaitas> average_guy: +!
[22:42] <johnhaitas> *+1
[22:42] <cyberanger> I flame every distro, equal oppurnity hater
[22:43] <cyberanger> but I like average_guy's idea better, less rage involved
[22:44] <average_guy> I'm far to apathetic to HATE anything
[22:46] <binarymutant> how can debian and ubuntu be a flame war...?
[22:46] <binarymutant> it's the same
[22:46] <average_guy> rut row
[22:46] <average_guy> wrong thing to say
[22:47] <binarymutant> oh noes
[22:47] <cyberanger> yep, he just loaded my gun
[22:47] <binarymutant> what's the diff. cyberanger ?
[22:47] <binarymutant> :D
[22:48] <cyberanger> binarymutant: for time sake on my end, I'll merely point at unity, if you can install it on debian, I'll drop that statement when I get back
[22:48] <binarymutant> cyberanger: you can install on debian :D
[22:48] <cyberanger> or manage to install iceweasel on ubuntu
[22:48] <cyberanger> within apt
[22:49] <binarymutant> you can :D
[22:49] <binarymutant> with iceweasel enable the debian sid repo and apt-get it
[22:50] <binarymutant> with unity, bzr pull it, compile, and run :D
[22:50] <cyberanger> binarymutant: I'll be more in depth when I get back on the reasons I use debian instead
[22:50] <cyberanger> (and a stunt like that is why debuntu exists wrst ^^)
[22:50] <cyberanger> bbl
[22:50] <cyberanger> meeting time, and I'm late again :-/
[22:50]  * cyberanger detaches screen, crawls out window
[22:53] <binarymutant> heh or really you could just add ubuntu's repos and apt-get it, vice-versa


[00:55] <DanaG> Hmm, what can I do about the 2.6.26 kernel missing nvidia driver?
[00:55] <RAOF> Use nouveau? :)
[00:55] <DanaG> I can't seem to even manually install the driver.
[00:56] <DanaG> I've gone back to 2.6.24 for now.
[00:56] <DanaG> I actually had to roll back to the Hardy repo temporarily to get it, though -- the 2.6.24 have been removed from Intrepid!
[00:56] <RAOF> Yup.
[00:57] <RAOF> There's a patch on ubuntuforums.org to allow you to build the nvidia kernel module against 2.6.26, though.
[00:57] <DanaG> Oddly enough, /sbin/lrm-manager is entirely MISSING.
[00:57] <DanaG> !find lrm-manager
[00:57] <DanaG> !find lrm-manager hardy
[00:57] <RAOF> But you won't need lrm-manager?
[00:58] <DanaG> Still, it's bad that it mysteriously disappeared.
[00:58] <DanaG> And the failsafe-X thing doesn't actually show what caused the failure -- that's bad.  You have to look for Xorg.0.log.old .
[00:59] <DanaG> Anyway, can you link me to that forum post, please?
[00:59] <DanaG> nvm
[00:59] <DanaG> found it.
[01:00] <DanaG> Oh, 173.14.09?
[01:00] <RAOF> Ya?
[01:00] <DanaG> I currently have 177.13 installed.
[01:00] <DanaG> Luckily, I don't actually NEED that new of a driver.
[01:01] <DanaG> T'is good not to have bleeding-edge closed-source hardware.
[01:02] <DanaG> I currently have old closed-source hardware.... and next time, I may have semi-bleeding-edge open-source hardware.
[01:02] <DanaG> ATI 3-series or 4-series.
[01:03] <DanaG> I like the new numbering.
[01:03] <DanaG> Now I can just say, "3-series"
[01:04]  * DanaG goes off to init 3 temporarily.
[01:04] <DanaG> ... and install a new kernel.
[01:07]  * DanaG opts to just reboot, instead.
[01:09] <darkreaction> is this the room in need to be in if i need help?
[01:09] <Laney> Help with Intrepid, yes
[01:10] <darkreaction> where would i go for network help?
[01:11] <jacob> darkreaction: in here, if you are using Intrepid (to be 8.10), the development series
[01:11] <jacob> guess not
[01:16] <emma> I have a question about updates I recieve. I am always interested, why I am getting those updates, and what they actually portend.
[01:16] <emma> I seem to have gotten quite a few compiz related updates recently here.
[01:16] <emma> Do those updates actually add new features, even well into the Hardy life span or what exactly are those updates likely to be doing?
[01:16] <emma> Most of the time I notice the updates are for obscure things, or things I certainly never use.
[01:19] <Amaranth> RAOF: lrm-manager and lrm-video went away because there is no use for them without nvidia or fglrx modules
[01:19] <Amaranth> RAOF: but they forgot to remove the modprobe rule to call them
[01:20] <Amaranth> I just uninstalled lrm and did my nvidia thing (that DanaG was looking for) so I didn't have a problem
[01:20] <emma> Hi Amaranth I haven't seen you about in a while.
[01:22] <Amaranth> yeah, been busy
[01:23] <emma> Cool nice to see you back. :)
[01:23] <emma> You work on compiz so you might have some insight into my question or maybe you can tell me a better ubuntu channel to ask it in :)
[01:24] <Amaranth> I have been away, I have no idea what is going on with compiz
[01:24] <DanaG> Odd, usplash is all screwy on the new console.
[01:25] <DanaG> Imagine cutting the screen into 8 vertical strips... and then removing every other one and shoving the remnants leftwards.
[01:25] <DanaG> ... and then when X failed to start (due to lrm-video missing!)... I was left with a totally black screen.
[01:25] <DanaG> And if I loaded nvidiafb.... the screen was shoved halfway off to the left... and didn't wrap around to the right.
[01:26] <DanaG> wtf?  pcsp stole index 1!
[01:27] <DanaG> ... and it doesn't even work on my laptop, anyway.
[01:27] <Amaranth> DanaG: edit /etc/modprobe.d/lrm-video
[01:27] <Amaranth> comment out the nvidia stuff
[01:27] <DanaG> Yup, did that.
[01:27] <DanaG> I just wonder why lrm-video is missing.
[01:27] <DanaG> Is it accidental?
[01:27] <Amaranth> no
[01:27] <Amaranth> no video drivers, no need for lrm-video
[01:28] <DanaG> But then it breaks manually-installed ones, too.
[01:28] <emma> Amaranth: well I'm not specifically asking about compiz really. I would just like to know generally speaking when we get a list of updates in our pannel, what is usually going on there.
[01:28] <Amaranth> emma: *shrug*
[01:28] <DanaG> They should also remove that modprobe.d file, then.
[01:28] <Amaranth> emma: bug fixes
[01:28] <Amaranth> DanaG: I thought they did, I guess not
[01:28] <emma> Do release cycles actually continue to add features to software or are those mostly minor patches or..
[01:28] <DanaG> I read changelogs.
[01:28] <Amaranth> emma: during hardy you'll get no new features
[01:28] <DanaG> And if something doesn't have a changelog, I try not to install that package until it DOES have one.
[01:29] <emma> Amaranth: So in the case of something big like Firefox or pulseaudio or the major troubles such as that, it is conceivable that something just not working at all could magically start working some day after an update?
[01:29] <DanaG> That keeps me one upgrade cycle behind -- so I get advance warning of major breakage.
[01:29] <Amaranth> emma: sure
[01:29] <Amaranth> DanaG: my rule is if I can't boot without it I wait 24 hours and see if a new update came out
[01:30] <Amaranth> except the kernel, since you can boot an old one
[01:30] <Amaranth> and soon the kernel will never be a problem with last-known-good
[01:30] <DanaG> I also keep around at least one previous major version kernel.
[01:30] <DanaG> And update it periodically, too!
[01:31] <emma> Amaranth - No new features after any release or just the LTS ones?
[01:31] <Amaranth> you're more likely to get new features in the LTS releases, actually
[01:31] <Amaranth> they may put in things during their 6 month updates
[01:31] <Amaranth> but in general you get security and severe bug fixes
[01:33] <DanaG> I wonder why snd_pcsp autoloads now.
[01:35] <DanaG> I wonder why PulseAudio uses index instead of CARD=
[01:36] <DanaG> like, front:0 and surround51:1 instead of front:CARD=Intel and surround51:CARD=Audigy2
[01:36] <DanaG> That'd make it a bit more human readable.
[01:36] <Amaranth> it really isn't meant to be human readable
[01:37] <DanaG> I like the idea of PulseAudio thingies in the windeco.
[01:38] <DanaG> Even better if you can go from app->checkboxes for each device
[01:38] <DanaG> (with a hotkey to move and unset the old)
[01:46] <DanaG> Hmm, is there anything actually majorly new in 2.6.26?
[01:46] <DanaG> Majorly, as in, visible to the end-user.
[01:50] <Amaranth> DanaG: http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges shows the changes in 2.6.25
[01:51] <Amaranth> since we had 2.6.24 those should be new to you
[01:51] <Amaranth> they won't do 2.6.26 until it is actually released
[01:51] <DanaG> Ooh, latencytop.
[01:51] <DanaG> Good for tracking down those damn audio dropouts on lid close, and such.
[01:52] <DanaG> Oh yeah, how about ext4 stuff?  Do you know anything about that?
[01:53] <DanaG> Please enable the CONFIG_LATENCYTOP configuration in your kernel.
[01:53] <DanaG> argh.
[01:54] <DanaG> What's up with that?
[01:58] <DanaG> Dang, my laptop doesn't use the iwl3945 LEDs.
[01:58] <DanaG> Bummer.
[01:58] <DanaG> The only LED is a BIOS-controlled LED that supersedes all drivers -- and even toggles at the Grub screen.  :(
[02:00] <ethana2> gahhhh
[02:00]  * ethana2 reaches for snippers
[02:00] <ethana2> no wait
[02:01] <ethana2> ohhhhh, wireless card
[02:01] <ethana2> not keyboard, I was going to say I didn't think that was still the case after bootup
[02:01] <ethana2> now I getcha
[02:04] <RAOF> DanaG: The scheduler no longer sucks in .36
[02:04] <RAOF> s/36/26.
[02:04] <ethana2> they fixed the issues with nicing and CFS?
[02:06] <RAOF> They certainly fixed the issues where audio would crackle under tiny burst loads.
[02:07] <Amaranth> indeed
[02:08] <Amaranth> although that also went away if you stopped using pulseaudio
[02:08] <Amaranth> I stopped using pulseaudio
[02:08] <DanaG> I use PulseAudio because I have, and use, multiple audio devices.
[02:08] <DanaG> I need the niftyness of PulseAudio.
[02:09] <DanaG> But why is latencytop not enabled in the Ubuntu kernel?
[02:10] <Amaranth> because it slows down the general case (not caring about latencytop)
[02:12] <DanaG> Aah.
[02:12] <DanaG> It actually slows things down?  Bummer.
[02:12] <DanaG> Reminds me of schroedinger's cat.
[02:12] <DanaG> Observation affects it.
[02:13] <Amaranth> heh
[02:13] <ethana2> I use PA as an intercom system
[02:13] <Amaranth> it's not something you can just watch every couple of seconds like wakeups
[02:13] <ethana2> and on a dual seat setup to split my stereo into two mono
[02:13] <ethana2> for two simultaneous users
[02:13] <Amaranth> you have to add instrumentation to all the code where you want to check latency
[02:13] <ethana2> I also use the niftiness of it
[02:13] <Amaranth> basically a "start timer, do work, end timer" thing
[02:19] <DanaG> Heh, I wouldn't like having just mono.
[02:19] <ethana2> well
[02:19] <ethana2> with dual seat on a netburst celeron with 768MB of RAM
[02:20] <ethana2> it's not exactly about 'like'
[02:20] <ethana2> no 3d acceleration for instance
[02:20] <ethana2> because I had both seats on one gpu
[02:20] <ethana2> because x can't handle what I needed to do
[02:20] <ethana2> one seat intel, one seat ati
[02:20] <ethana2> a crying shame as compiz would save a lot of cpu
[02:20] <ethana2> with simple proper compositing
[02:20] <RAOF> Enable metacity's compositor?
[02:21] <ethana2> ......no 3d acceleration
[02:21] <ethana2> at all
[02:21] <ethana2> X needs a ground up rewrite
[02:21] <ethana2> .....I wish linus took up an interest in it
[02:21] <ethana2> that would be amazing
[02:22] <RAOF> ethana2: You don't need 3d accel to do compositing.
[02:22] <RAOF> ethana2: Also, multi-user DRI is now available on Intel.  If you're an X hacker :)
[02:22] <ethana2> well that's good
[02:22] <ethana2> but I had no EXA or anythign either
[02:22] <ethana2> simply no acceleration
[02:22] <ethana2> the cursors would lag
[02:22] <ethana2> I'm always a corner case
[02:23] <ethana2> part of why I alpha test
[02:23] <ethana2> I run into odd bugs
[02:23] <ethana2> that nobody wants to fix after freezes
[02:23] <ethana2> for instance, I use a dark theme
[02:23] <ethana2> breaks every web site on the internet
[02:23] <RAOF> Hm.  I thought you should be able to get 2d accel on two different servers.
[02:23] <ethana2> that hardcodes one color, and uses your theme for the other
[02:23] <ethana2> both or neither to work
[02:24] <ethana2> I don't know if I was running two servers or one
[02:24] <ethana2> whatever userful does
[02:24] <ethana2> I tried attacking it manually with the terminal
[02:24] <ethana2> gave up
[02:24] <ethana2> had to use propietary software
[02:26] <Amaranth> ethana2: if you can't mix an intel and an ati gpu that is because you are using fglrx
[02:26] <Amaranth> and thus you fail
[02:27] <ethana2> I use radeion
[02:27] <ethana2> radeon**
[02:27] <ethana2> but it's an old card
[02:27] <ethana2> with specs just coming out now
[02:28] <ethana2> the driver sucks so bad I just took it out
[02:28] <ethana2> using the integrated
[02:28] <Amaranth> ethana2: specs just coming out now? that'd be r500
[02:28] <ethana2> half the power
[02:28] <ethana2> radeon 9200se
[02:28] <ethana2> specs for 'educational purposes'
[02:28] <Amaranth> we had specs for that long ago
[02:28] <ethana2> oh?
[02:28] <Amaranth> that's r200
[02:28] <ethana2> I got a different idea from an amd employee on phoronix
[02:28] <ethana2> hmm
[02:29] <Amaranth> well they gave the specs to a couple people and stopped giving them out so no current developer had them
[02:29] <Amaranth> but they do now
[02:29] <Amaranth> and they mostly had everything done for it already
[02:29] <ethana2> oh
[02:29] <ethana2> except like
[02:29] <ethana2> forgot what it is
[02:30] <ethana2> some param gives decent performance
[02:30] <ethana2> but its unstable
[02:30] <ethana2> the windows driver performed over twice as fast
[02:30] <ethana2> tremulous as test
[02:30] <ethana2> super-z sound familiar?
[02:30] <ethana2> whatever it is, it's crucial to performing decently, and it's off by default
[02:31] <Amaranth> IRSeekBot got k-lined?
[02:31] <ethana2> I do hope the driver continues to improve..
[02:31] <Amaranth> super-z is only useful for saving bandwidth in 3d games
[02:31] <ethana2> large scenes were a killer
[02:31] <ethana2> PCI card
[02:32] <ethana2> I should just recycle it
[02:32] <ethana2> probably on like
[02:32] <ethana2> 180nm node anyway
[02:32] <ethana2> anything above that, instant recycle
[02:32] <ethana2> when we start seeing 32 nm, I will recommend
[02:33] <ethana2> that all 180 node silicon be recycled as well
[02:33] <ethana2> when we hit 22, all 130nm node, including this cpu here
[02:33] <ethana2> people act like they're being resourceful when they're wasting watts
[02:34] <gnomefreak> ethana2: can you please move this to #ubuntu-offtopic as it has nothing to do with Intrepid AFAICT
[02:34] <ethana2> oh sorry
[02:34] <ethana2> (I have a tendency to go offtopic..)
[06:38] <teamcobra> hi all :)
[07:25] <Lycus> Has Intrepid diverged that much from Hardy yet?
[07:25] <Amaranth> Lycus: Not visibly
[07:26] <RAOF> But in terms of packages, yes.
[07:26] <ethana2> bzr
[07:26] <RAOF> Bazaar -- a free distributed version-control tool
[07:29] <Amaranth> thanks RAOFbot
[07:29] <Amaranth> :D
[07:29] <ethana2> heh
[07:30] <RAOF> :)
[07:39] <Lycus> Has anyone seen any GNOME themes that are mock-ups of what Intrepid is supposed to look like?
[07:41] <ethana2> I saw some that were simply awesome
[07:41] <Lycus> such as?
[07:41] <ethana2> but there's no way to know where they came from
[07:41] <ethana2> I don't remember, I don't have a url either sorry
[07:41] <Lycus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave - ?
[07:42] <ethana2> ooh
[07:43] <ethana2> ooooh, newsplash
[07:43] <ethana2> very close to what I've been thinking
[07:44] <Amaranth> you want a screenshot?
[07:45] <Lycus> No, I
[07:45] <Lycus> would like the theme.
[07:45] <Lycus> =/
[07:45] <Amaranth> it's just the ubuntustudio theme modified to be brown
[07:45] <Amaranth> looks like crap, really
[07:47] <Amaranth> it was more "we're going dark, get used to it"
[07:47] <Amaranth> it'll be changed later
[07:47] <ethana2> firefox still ships with separate navigation and menu bars, status bar turned on
[07:47] <Lycus> oo, I got it installed and I approve.
[07:47] <ethana2> still those worthless arrow things at the ends of scroll bars....
[07:48] <RAOF> Amaranth: Are you talking about the ubuntulooks-murrine engineything?
[07:48] <Lycus> New Wave 0.4.3 is nice.
[07:48] <Lycus> ^_^
[07:48] <Amaranth> RAOF: yes
[07:48] <RAOF> Sorry, Human-murrine.  Yes, it's very ugly.
[07:48] <Amaranth> Lycus: that's not the theme we're going to have
[07:48] <RAOF> Also, transparent widgets sound much much cooler than they actually are.
[07:49] <Coiotes> Amaranth: I see, well, it's the theme I'm going to  have. ^_^
[07:49] <Coiotes> Are you going to stick with something orange/brownish?
[07:49] <Amaranth> yes
[07:49] <Amaranth> RAOF: yeah, the logout and screensaver dialogs and just weird
[07:49]  * RAOF thinks we should break into something showing our roots, like Debian magenta :)
[07:49] <Coiotes> So, why does New Wave exist? Just something that is getting scrapped?
[07:49] <Amaranth> and they fake compiz animations
[07:49] <Amaranth> Coiotes: Just something a user made
[07:50] <Coiotes> Amaranth: Ah.
[07:51] <RAOF> Is the screensaver dialog transparent?
[07:51]  * RAOF finds it hard to tell, sitting as it does on a matte black background.
[07:52] <Amaranth> i think it looked like it once
[07:52] <Amaranth> but I guess not
[07:52] <Amaranth> they need to use the compiz plugin for the logout window though
[07:52] <Amaranth> my fade code sucks
[07:53] <RAOF> Oh, is it _your_ fade code that's terribly, terribly slow?
[07:53] <RAOF> :)
[07:54] <RAOF> Oh, that time it worked better.  Although it _did_ bring in some windows from the other workspace in the fade :)
[07:54]  * RAOF plays with breaking metacity's compositor.
[07:55] <Amaranth> they may have dropped my code
[07:55] <Amaranth> it seems to be the non-composited version again
[07:55] <Amaranth> probably because that dialog is fake transparent
[07:56] <RAOF> Is it really non-composited?  Because I seem to be able to pick up fragments of other windows with it, like composite fun.
[07:57] <Amaranth> yeah, it looks like the old "grab a screenshot and darken it" code
[07:58] <Amaranth> you can tell because the whole thing doesn't darken evenly
[07:58] <Amaranth> my code would sometimes stutter (damn fade plugin) but would evenly darken the screen
[08:00] <RAOF> Is there some reason not to create a great big black argb window and fill it with progressively more solid alpha?
[08:00]  * Amaranth wants his MB 13.3/2.4/2X1GB/160/SD-DL:WHITE-USA already
[08:00] <Amaranth> RAOF: that's what my code for the logout dialog and gksu does/did
[08:01] <RAOF> Ah, right.  And it interacted badly with the fade plugin?
[08:01] <Amaranth> RAOF: instead of filling the window with a screenshot and darkening it with gdk it would make it transparent black and up the opacity in a timer
[08:01] <RAOF> Oh, because of dueling alpha values.
[08:01] <Amaranth> the fade plugin would fade my fade :P
[08:01] <ethana2> man, we've got some interesting stuff in the pipeline
[08:01] <RAOF> Right.
[08:01] <ethana2> the thing about humans
[08:01] <ethana2> is that we're all different
[08:01] <Amaranth> so it would be in the middle of fading and i'd change the opacity again
[08:02] <ethana2> I hate all colors longer than green
[08:02] <RAOF> "Longer" as in wavelength?  That's a pretty large swathe.
[08:02] <ethana2> yes
[08:02] <ethana2> it is
[08:03] <ethana2> white, black, green, blue, purple, violet are all awesome
[08:03] <ethana2> the others I dislike very much
[08:03] <Amaranth> do you like x-ray?
[08:03] <ethana2> my display does not produce it
[08:03] <ethana2> ;)
[08:03] <ethana2> actually
[08:03] <ethana2> it probably does
[08:03] <RAOF> That's what _you_ think.
[08:03] <ethana2> heh
[08:03] <ethana2> I'll have an lcd soon..
[08:04] <ethana2> you know what I mean though
[08:04] <RAOF> Huzzah for accelerating electrons to relativistic speeds!
[08:04] <ethana2> heh
[08:04] <ethana2> .7c
[08:05] <ethana2> also, there are two theme families: white on black, black on white
[08:05] <ethana2> the former breaks half the web
[08:05] <ethana2> but it is my preference
[08:05] <ethana2> and there's always greasemonkey
[08:05] <ethana2> I actually chose ubuntu studio instead of ubuntu
[08:05] <ethana2> because of the theme
[08:06] <ethana2> I should go to bed now
[08:06] <ethana2> good night
[09:09] <DanaG> Random thing I just noticed:
[09:10] <DanaG> Audio capture now works!
[09:10] <DanaG> My onboard audio device didn't used to have working capture.
[09:11]  * DanaG uses this theme: http://picpaste.com/pics/screenshot-orange-nodoka.1213694702.png
[13:32] <Laney> Bah, my Intrepid VM has screwed up. Mouse is stuck in a tiny square in the top left :(
[13:41] <bluecake> when is 8.10 test version coming out?
[13:41] <gnomefreak> bluecake: first alpha should be soon but i dont suggest you test until beta releases
[13:42] <bluecake> gnomefreak, i heard new GUI will be there for 8.10
[13:42] <gnomefreak> bluecake: there is a very big chance all the alphas will be broken at one time or another and if you cant fix it you might be without a working system
[13:42] <gnomefreak> bluecake: that wont happen until last alpha
[13:42] <bluecake> oh...
[13:42] <bluecake> i have a test machine, i wipe it out every 6 months
[14:06] <teamcobra> morning all:) has anyone successfully gotten intrepid to act as a xen dom0?
[14:09] <teamcobra> or is it still unsupported in 2.6.26? (I know it isn't supported in 2.6.25, and I need to run 2.6.25+ to have working wireless :/)
[14:56] <teamcobra> brb\
[18:16] <humbolt> will sound be fixed in ibex?
[18:16] <humbolt> it seems default like sampling rates of alsa and pulse are not set to the same value
[18:17] <humbolt> I have incredibly bad sound quality when recording!
[18:50] <h3sp4wn_> pulse makes terrible quality or latency in my experience
[18:50] <h3sp4wn_> even when its set to just pass through#
[19:09] <Laney> h3sp4wn_: Have you reported a bug for this?
[19:52] <ASULutzy> Heh, so how unstable is Intrepid?
[19:53] <ASULutzy> I certainly am not going to use it for production work, but just curious if it's even possible to install and fool around with in a VM
[19:53] <ethana2> VM should be fine
[19:54] <ethana2> but it's not exciting and unique yet
[19:54] <ethana2> it's just like debian sid
[19:54] <daekdroom> Does it still use Hardy's kernel?
[19:54] <ethana2> it'll get more intrepid-ish as it goes on..
[19:54] <ethana2> ...i don't know
[19:55] <ASULutzy> ethana2: I was talking to someone earlier that said it was still using nm .6 instead of .7... Is Intrepid going to use nm .7 when it ships in the fall?
[19:56] <ASULutzy> ethana2: I know it's most speculation at this point, but just curious if there's any idea whether or not it will still be using nm .6.6
[19:56] <ethana2> if .7 comes out before code freeze
[19:56] <ethana2> it'll probably be using it
[19:56] <ethana2> unless they do some odd number unstable thing
[19:56] <ethana2> like the kernel does
[20:12] <Amaranth> ethana2: I think you were thinking of broadcom, btw
[20:12] <Amaranth> the broadcom driver team had two groups
[20:12] <Amaranth> one did documentation, the other wrote code based on that documentation
[20:12] <ethana2> yeah
[20:13] <ethana2> I'd give my money to an effort like that with nvidia hardware
[20:13] <ethana2> equal to the cost of the nvidia gpu I bought
[20:13] <ethana2> evidently you're in #nouveau
[20:13] <ethana2> heh
[20:16] <ethana2> Amaranth: we need organization
[20:16] <ethana2> someone needs to take donation pledges
[20:16] <ethana2> and set up this effort
[20:16] <Amaranth> ethana2: afaik they have all the hardware they need at this point
[20:16] <ethana2> but labor wages?
[20:16] <Amaranth> and they aren't doing documentation, just writing the driver
[20:17] <Amaranth> well no
[20:17] <ethana2> hmm
[20:17] <Amaranth> hopefully marcheu will be hired by someone to keep working on it
[20:17] <ethana2> yes
[20:17] <Amaranth> he is the main guy that started the project
[20:17] <ethana2> we could do that
[20:17] <ethana2> as a community
[20:17] <ethana2> employ him full time at $20 an hour to work on it
[20:44] <^Ocean^> I am trying too upgrade too Hardy,   I did a dist-upgrade and cron, failed too install...   What did I do wrong
[20:53] <ASULutzy> ^Ocean^: This is for Intrepid Ibex not Hardy Heron?
[20:53] <mvo> ^Ocean^: file a bug please and include the files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/ to the bugreport
[22:01] <YokoZar> Is there an intrepid cd image yet?
[22:02] <ethana2> maybe dailies, no alpha yet
[22:02] <YokoZar> ethana2: Yeah that's what I wanted
[22:03]  * ethana2 looks
[22:03] <ethana2> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[22:03] <YokoZar> hmm...broken links
[22:03] <YokoZar> guess not
[22:04] <YokoZar> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20080624/ has downloads though
[22:04] <YokoZar> which is odd that's not in current...
[22:06] <RAOF> YokoZar: iso.qa.ubuntu.com has alternate CDs for testing.
[22:25] <steph> hi
[23:11] <mcquaid> not inrepid related but i'm upgrading a gutsy box to hardy.  i know i've changed config files.  i'm going to run the upgrade unattended and i'd like it to default to replace when it encounters changed config files.
[23:11] <mcquaid> Is this possible?  I'd rather not come back to a half-done install awaiting a keep/replace
[23:12] <mcquaid> i would this would be possible for an unattended upgrade, but can't find anything on this
[23:29] <ethana2> mcquaid: I hear you, find the name of the app that does all that
[23:30] <ethana2> and go to those folks
[23:30] <ethana2> because they'll know more about all of it than anyone else
[23:30] <ethana2> you may end up filing a feature request
[23:30] <mcquaid> ok


[04:54] <apachelogger> Launchpad does not know where Muon Package Manager hosts its code.
[04:54] <apachelogger> no one does
[04:56] <apachelogger> hum
[04:56] <tsimpson> apt-cache does give you a clue via the Homepage link
[04:57] <tsimpson> not exactly where people go looking for it though
[05:16] <robtygart> apachelogger: this guy made muon https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman you could ask.
[05:17] <apachelogger> hm, never heard of him
[05:18] <robtygart> type muon --author
[05:18] <JontheEchidna> (lol)
[05:19] <robtygart> http://www.wonderly.com/2011/05/muon-kde-package-manager-and-software-center/
[05:20] <apachelogger> oh
[05:20] <apachelogger> robtygart: thanks :)
[05:20] <robtygart> Your welcome
[06:16] <apachelogger> hm
[06:17] <apachelogger> ScottK: kubuntu-default-settings has a rather big history, I wonder if we should drop that for kubuntu-settings
[06:17] <apachelogger> (seeing as it is still available in the respective branches anyway)
[06:18] <apachelogger> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-settings/kubuntu-settings/files
[06:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 1058466 do we still keep the old around for a reason?
[06:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think we should not lose history.
[06:44] <apachelogger> well we'd not loose it
[06:45] <apachelogger> we'd clip it for the new source
[06:45] <apachelogger> the old bzr branches are still around and have their history
[06:45] <ScottK> Meh.  Whatever.
[06:45] <apachelogger> problem is primarily that way back in kde3 we had wallpapers and plenty of icons in there
[06:45] <ScottK> I see.
[06:45] <apachelogger> which makes the branch unnecessarily big
[06:46] <ScottK> You're doing the work, so I won't object however you see fit.
[06:46] <apachelogger> to that extend clipping only to like the port to kde4 should already reduce the size quite a bit
[06:46] <ScottK> OK.
[06:47] <apachelogger> bug 999623
[06:47]  * apachelogger is all in favor of using liberation :P
[06:47] <apachelogger> particularly ubuntu mono makes my eyes bleed
[06:47] <apachelogger> (not that liberation mono fairs a lot better in that department)
[06:48] <ScottK> What is the default Ubuntu font?
[06:48] <apachelogger> afiestas: please make dario triage powerdevil bugs
[06:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: ubuntu
[06:48] <ScottK> I thought that was ours too?
[06:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think the complaint is more about how that font has problems with Qt
[06:48] <ScottK> I see.
[06:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: yes, but we don't render like the youbuntoo
[06:49] <apachelogger> as was seen by the issue in quantal were text was super fat
[06:49] <ScottK> Well then, that should be fixed.
[06:49] <ScottK> Right, but didn't that get fixed?
[06:49] <apachelogger> dunno
[06:50]  * apachelogger does not like the font really
[06:50] <ScottK> Don't look at me, I voted against switching to it.
[06:50] <apachelogger> Droid is rather nice for high-res screens, everywhere else I go for liberation
[06:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: pff
[06:50] <apachelogger> time to call for a recount
[06:51] <apachelogger> perhaps we should also revisit quassel v konvi ^^
[06:52] <ScottK> No idea how Konversation is working these days.
[06:55] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1070472] Esperanto did not appear in language menu @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1070472 (by siauderman)
[06:55] <apachelogger> ScottK: same as always, better looking and doing what it was meant to do
[06:56] <apachelogger> actually perhaps we should revisit that after all
[06:57] <apachelogger> because depending on how we justify having an IRC client on the ISO the better looks may be the one and only tipping point
[06:57] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1056431] KDE resets brightness to max at login @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1056431 (by Marja Erwin)
[06:57] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1066237] log out button freezes kde @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1066237 (by J. Sundermeyer)
[06:58] <apachelogger> i.e. if we have an IRC client on board to allow users to hop into #kubuntu and seek support none of the differences between quassel and konversation matter except for visual appearance and how that integrates with the overal workspace design
[06:58] <tsimpson> well, as I remember, the only reason we moved away from konversation was because it wasn't ready for KDE4 when we released. and that's no longer the case :)
[06:58] <afiestas> apachelogger: I don't have magic powers
[06:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: lol
[06:58] <afiestas> apachelogger: can you point me to some so I can send him an email?
[06:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=294768
[07:00] <apachelogger> tsimpson: yeah and then when we talked about it it was a convenient decision to stick with it seeing as there was little effective difference between the two
[07:00] <apachelogger> but now what I see is active polishing on konvi and not so much of that on quassel
[07:01] <tsimpson> I'd say that konvi is a "better" client than quassel, especially if you don't care about the core/client vs monolithic thing
[07:01] <tsimpson> "better" in the sense of looking nicer, and offering more features
[07:01] <apachelogger> question is do those two things matter
[07:02] <apachelogger> a lot to be discussed
[07:02] <apachelogger> horray
[07:02]  * apachelogger wonders where to spam first
[07:02] <jussi> the reason we chose to stick with quassel iirc was it was simpler and easier to get started, among other things.
[07:03] <tsimpson> I don't see how it's much different from konvi in that regard, we have default settings that "just work" for both
[07:04] <apachelogger> if we were to change there is also the question on what to do with quassel users ... force transit to konvi by config migration? leave two clients installed? make them choose on login?
[07:04] <jussi> apachelogger: for upgrades? just install the new client and leave the quassel there...
[07:05] <tsimpson> probably best to lave it installed for upgrades, and install konvi on fresh installs
[07:06] <jussi> I think the thing here is though, long term, how do we see the clients going. Is it really that we want to take Konvi now, and then look at quassel again in 2 cycles and switch back.
[07:06] <tsimpson> maybe have k-desktop depend/recommend/whatever on konversation | quassel
[07:06] <jussi> lets try keep it consistent iff possible
[07:06] <jussi> hey tazz
[07:07]  * tazz hugs jussi
[07:07] <apachelogger> weird things people are annoyed by: bug 958031
[07:07] <tsimpson> konversation looks (much) more active than quassel
[07:07] <Tm_T> Jussipussi
[07:07] <apachelogger> I do wonder how one even finds rfkill
[07:08] <jussi> tsimpson: right at this moment, yes
[07:08] <apachelogger> is it like "uh, lets have a look around the filesystem... oh my, this /usr/bin/ dir is rather full... and what is this here rfkill, what does it do? oh, nothing useful, WHY DO I HAVE THIS? WAAHAAAA"
[07:09] <apachelogger> it's what I think when I have a look around the filesystem
[07:09] <apachelogger> usual filesystem is $HOME though
[07:09] <apachelogger> and usually rfkill is weird prn
[07:09] <tsimpson> jussi: ironically, I just noticed my quassel here doesn't list you in the Nicks panel here, and doesn't allow me to tab-complete your nick ;)
[07:09] <apachelogger> otherwise same principle
[07:09] <jussi> tsimpson: curious...
[07:09] <jussi> tsimpson: bug :P
[07:09] <apachelogger> jussi: why woudl we look at quassel again?
[07:11] <apachelogger> bug #715309
[07:11] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1053140] Can't type accents in qt/kde applications (i.e. áàóò...) @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1053140 (by Jordi Ferrando Fabra)
[07:12] <jussi> apachelogger: simple, easy, still in active development, decent roadmap, we know the devs well, we can "shape" the direction as some examples. Many of these are valid for konvi as well though
[07:19] <apachelogger> jussi: that's why I am saying the only real question that needs answering is why we have an IRC client to begin with
[07:19] <tsimpson> quassel is a nice distributed IRC client, but that's hardly something the average user needs or requires for access to #kubuntu
[07:20] <jussi> apachelogger: yes, its a very good point, and goes back to the thought of "who is our target audience".
[07:20] <apachelogger> as if I had planned it :P
[07:20] <apachelogger> of course the target audience remains not well defined
[07:20] <jussi> Im actually somehwat in favour of just populating either the browser or the menu with a browser shortcut to the web irc interfacr
[07:21] <apachelogger> jussi: that implies having a working browser :P
[07:22] <apachelogger> though I do generally agree, except the freenode irc interface is not particularly beautiful
[07:23] <jussi> apachelogger: its not too bad, and colours can be customised
[07:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: do we still have a DVD? bug 900705
[07:23] <jussi> we might even just want to embed it to the kubuntu site and link there
[07:24] <apachelogger> as long as it can be kubuntu themed
[07:24] <apachelogger> bug 1001630 is fun
[07:24] <jussi> apachelogger: we can make it nice kubuntu colours, then just put it within the existing theme
[07:25] <claydoh> people will howl, as they tend to do when something is changed or removed
[07:25] <jussi> claydoh: yes, of course they will
[07:25] <claydoh> but it isn't as if there are many irc users as a percentage
[07:26] <apachelogger> it is also not as if we could make half of that marginal percentage agree with our decision anyway :P
[07:27] <apachelogger> i.e. almost all quassel users I know are actually using it with a remote core, so they even need to install a different package despite us shipping quassel ^^
[07:27]  * tsimpson does exactly that ^
[07:27] <claydoh> as a quassel fan I do like the idea of the web interface on the website, as well as a bookmark in rekonq
[07:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: We don't have DVD anymore.
[07:28] <ScottK> We still have the kubuntu-full metapackage though.
[07:28] <ScottK> It might be worth keeping.
[07:29] <jussi> Do we not already ship with help bookmarks in rekonq?
[07:29] <claydoh> apachelogger: agreed, my core is an a eeepc
[07:30] <jussi> apachelogger: so yes, I would be in agreeance to move irc to webchat embedded in the kubuntu website. those that want a real client will be able to install it with no issue.
[07:30] <claydoh> jussi: no, not really the favorites tab has your basic kde links ank kubuntu website link iirc
[07:31] <jussi> hrm
[07:32] <jussi> I have an interesting thought...
[07:32] <ScottK> Webchat for #kubuntu maybe.
[07:32] <jussi> Are the pages in the help browser html? could we not just add the freenode client as one of those pages WITHIN the help browser?
[07:35] <apachelogger> yes
[07:35] <apachelogger> slightly mad though :P
[07:36] <jussi> apachelogger: why?
[07:36] <apachelogger> cause KHC is spooky crap
[07:36] <jussi> hehe
[07:36] <apachelogger> also I think that needs some hacking
[07:36] <jussi> ok, but it would be the best place for it, IMHO
[07:36] <apachelogger> i.e. KHC will by default only render help:/ urls
[07:36] <apachelogger> everything else is sent to kde to figure out what to do with it
[07:37] <claydoh> rekonq favorites pane might be more discoverable
[07:37] <apachelogger> jussi: yeah
[07:37] <apachelogger> jussi: first we need apachelogger to redo KHC though :P
[07:38] <jussi> apachelogger: but would it not work to have a help:/ page with the thing embedded in it ?
[07:38] <claydoh> hmmm rekonq's background image needs kubuntu-fication
[07:38] <apachelogger> if that is possible
[07:39] <apachelogger> jussi: just put it in some random page and see what happens ;)
[07:39] <apachelogger> claydoh: what's that?
[07:39] <claydoh> where do most people go when they need help? the Help or the Web?
[07:39] <jussi> apachelogger: <iframe src="http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=kubuntu&uio=MTE9MjQ255" width="647" height="400"></iframe>
[07:40] <jussi> apachelogger: thats a blue hued, #kubuntu joining webchat to be embedded wherever you have html
[07:43] <claydoh> jussi: http://postimage.org/image/fhqwnhcbn/  rather out of sync with the rest of kde's look, maybe
[07:43] <apachelogger> jussi: no JS :P
[07:44] <jussi> apachelogger: oh :(
[07:45] <jussi> claydoh: i just dropped some blue on it...:P
[07:46] <apachelogger> claydoh: bugs.kde.org is your friend :P
[07:47] <apachelogger> some pieces of software are even triaged there
[07:47] <apachelogger> powerdevil is not one of them :P
[07:47] <claydoh> apachelogger: :P we can prettify it for us, too
[07:47] <apachelogger> yeah, except it'd then still be broken upstream
[07:48] <apachelogger> vHanda: did you get a chance to look at them nepomuk crashes on launchpad yet?
[07:48] <claydoh> apachelogger: point taken
[07:49] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0 proper scottish music
[07:49] <apachelogger> is choqok still developed?
[07:50] <claydoh> apachelogger: one of my favourite songs of all time
[07:53] <apachelogger> chicken dance is better
[07:56]  * apachelogger can't look at bugs anymore -.-
[08:01] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1077196] klipper does not save contents from closed windows @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1077196 (by ill)
[08:06]  * claydoh goes to bed, damn this tinnitus !
[08:10]  * apachelogger falls off chair
[08:11] <apachelogger> this here installation is b0rked, where be my new pc
[08:11] <apachelogger> there I said it... installing kubuntu is such a dreadful experience I am getting new computers to avoid having to reinstall
[08:12] <apachelogger> actually I meant to look into making ubiquity kde more responsive
[08:12] <apachelogger> -.-
[12:02] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:14] <Riddell> hi BluesKaj
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi Riddell
[15:23] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1077965] qt4 applications over X forward run slower than with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1077965 (by Stefan Pielmeier)
[16:00] <Quintasan> Riddell: ping
[16:05] <Quintasan> SteveRiley: Lenovo ThinkPad T430u - opinons? X1 costs a fortune here
[16:10] <Riddell> Quintasan!
[16:11] <Quintasan> Riddell: I was supposed to sent you the scans of the fee for the bus I want to claim back but I forgot -_-
[16:12] <Riddell> you were supposed to give me them in person but I guess it's too late for that :)
[16:12] <Quintasan> Riddell: Yes I was, too forgetful on UDS
[16:12] <Quintasan> Too many distractions!
[16:15] <Riddell> Quintasan: so are you able to get them to me?
[16:15] <Riddell> and didn't you take a second flight or something?
[16:15] <Quintasan> yes, sent you an emailk
[16:15] <Quintasan> email*
[16:16] <Riddell> Quintasan: nothing in my e-mail
[16:17] <Quintasan> Riddell<EMAIL_ADDRESS>right?
[16:19] <Riddell> Quintasan: yep
[16:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: groovy got it
[16:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: so I still have these euro notes in my wallet for you
[16:20] <Riddell> is it sensible to just post the euro notes?
[16:21] <Riddell> because that would be easiest for me
[16:21] <Quintasan> hmmm
[16:21] <Quintasan> I'd have to go exchange them for PLN though
[16:21] <Quintasan> Well, go ahead and post them
[16:21] <Quintasan> I might as well as go shopping when I get them :P
[16:21]  * Quintasan could use some food in his fridge
[16:22] <Quintasan> Riddell: You got my address?
[16:22] <Riddell> Quintasan: no can you e-mail me your postal address?
[16:22] <Quintasan> sure
[16:23] <CQ> hello, is there a bug filed for the xserver not running? I get to the lightdm screen, and in 3.5 the screen goes blank then back to login for all logins, for 3.2 kernel the guest login works but th eothers don't ...
[16:23] <Quintasan> Riddell: sent
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: nope, the old gtk config module is still around just because they are different packages
[16:26] <yofel__> Quintasan: the 430u is ok for the money I guess. My personal issues with it are the non-changeble battery (ultrabook, I know) and the a bit low display resolution. In general it's fine though
[16:27] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:27] <maco> is there touchscreen whizbang stuff in kde?
[16:27] <Quintasan> yofel__: What about the no-u version?
[16:28] <Quintasan> gah
[16:33] <yofel__> Quintasan: the t430 is fine IMO (depending on the Hardware you get), depends whether you like it lighter or more flexible. (I'm generally for latter)
[16:36] <soee> someone using lates NVIDIa driver on qunatal?
[16:36] <Quintasan> soee: me
[16:37] <soee> Quintasan, works fine ?
[16:37] <Quintasan> well
[16:37] <Quintasan> most of the things yes
[16:37] <Quintasan> compositing is not smooth
[16:37] <Quintasan> but it works
[16:37] <soee> hmm
[16:38] <soee> ok thank you, maybe i try them to
[16:38]  * yofel__ makes his way home - bbl
[16:41] <soee> strange we have 4.9.3 in backports right ?
[16:42] <Riddell> CQ: hi
[16:42] <Riddell> CQ: that's probably not an X issue, that's probably the login not working
[16:42] <Riddell> look in ~/.Xsession
[16:42] <Riddell> no, in ~/.xsession-errors
[16:43] <Riddell> maco: probably not much
[16:43] <Riddell> I expect it needs to be added to the applications
[16:43] <Quintasan> soee: We do, what about it?
[16:44] <maco> Riddell: ok. i know there's touchscreen support in ubuntu overall, but wasn't sure about getting a laptop with a touchscreen and putting kubuntu on it
[16:44] <soee> well, i just added backports ppa and x-updates ppa but i have no updates for KDE or nvidia
[16:44] <soee> strange
[16:45] <Riddell> maco: maybe there is for all I know, we got patches in Qt for it but I don't know what else is needed and I don't think anyone here has the hardware to test it
[16:45] <maco> Riddell: ok. so i guess when asus starts selling the laptops they're advertising, it might make sense for me as a guinea pig ;)
[16:49] <Riddell> maco: yep would be cool
[16:57] <soee> ok animations arent smooth now and my panel isn't transparent anymore on new nvidia driver
[17:12] <shadeslayer> maco: which machine are you looking at?
[17:12] <maco> shadeslayer: Asus Zenbook Touch UX31A
[17:13] <maco> though reading the list of what's in asus's new lineup for this quarter, the Taichi looks pretty cool too
[17:13] <maco> http://asia.cnet.com/full-details-of-asus-windows-8-lineup-revealed-62219185.htm
[17:13] <shadeslayer> that looks like what I want to buy 6 months from now ....
[17:14] <shadeslayer> maco: does the screen come off?
[17:14] <maco> not on the zenbook
[17:15] <maco> the transformer is the one with the removable screen
[17:15] <maco> that turns into a tablet
[17:15] <shadeslayer> mmm ... the thing completely flips?
[17:15] <maco> the taichi acts like a tablet when you close the lid
[17:15] <maco> and hte zenbook you reach up over the keyboard to touch the screen
[17:16] <maco> http://asia.cnet.com/product/asus-transformer-book-core-i7-3517u-processor-1-9ghz-4gb-ram-46728391.htm thats about the transformer alone
[17:20] <shadeslayer> maco: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=FA4F841D9789D55CA8028C8C3A1EC325#.UKEvtZuvFKM
[17:20] <shadeslayer> want something like that
[17:20] <maco> ah, yeah i heard about that one
[17:20] <maco> actually i remember one of my friends having a thinkpad X-something several years ago that did that
[17:22] <BluesKaj> BBIAB
[17:23] <shadeslayer> unfortunately that thing looks really bulky
[17:35] <soee> after second reboot and VSync off all works perfect on new NVIDIA drivers :)
[17:36] <soee> also Amnesia game on full details without any problems
[18:14] <yofel> soee: which release are you on?
[18:15] <soee> yofel, are you asking because of my previous 4.9.3 updates problem ?
[18:16] <yofel> soee: yeah
[18:16] <soee> if so it works, i added backports but for qunatal updates are in updates ppa
[18:16] <yofel> right :)
[18:16] <soee> updating now
[20:01] <ScottK> yofel: Have you heard about any regressions with 4.9.3 on quantal?
[20:01] <ScottK> It seems to be working well for me.
[20:03] <yofel> not yet...
[20:03] <ScottK> Let me see if I can verify the kdenetwork update in -proposed now and then maybe it's time for 4.9.3 there.
[20:26]  * ScottK lives dangerously.
[20:26] <ScottK> Installing package updates while on battery over wifi from an airplane ....
[20:50] <ScottK> Alpha/Beta bug milestones are in for raring now, so people can target fixes/features appropriately.
[20:52] <yofel> was there any change for the image building for raring? or will we keep the usual alpha builds for now?
[20:56] <ScottK> Keeping them for now.
[20:56] <ScottK> I think we need to be good about messaging that people should use the latest though.
[22:17] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: 4.9.3 has the no-strigi nepomuk?
[22:17] <shadeslayer> nope
[22:17] <Quintasan> 4.10?
[22:17] <shadeslayer> most likely
[22:17] <Quintasan> Eh
[22:17] <Quintasan> Let's see how that works
[22:17] <Quintasan> brb rebooting
[22:27] <shadeslayer> cya