[00:07] <jelmer> hey poolie
[00:07] <jelmer> hi maxb
[00:07] <maxb> hello
[00:11] <poolie> hi jelmer, maxb
[00:49] <poolie> thanks for the reviews jelmer
[00:52] <lifeless> jelmer: if you're still aroud
[00:52] <lifeless> jelmer: can we talk about geoffs patch ?
[00:54] <jelmer> lifeless: sure
[00:55] <lifeless> so, he put that patch together based on a description of what I wanted in loggerhead
[00:55] <lifeless> I'm worried that its being parleyed into a bigger, different change.
[00:55] <lifeless> I don't think loggerhead should need to know about doing iter_tree_entries etc for the export.
[00:56] <jelmer> lifeless: I'd prefer to change this to be more flexible for other callers as well if we're going to change it, and both options seem to be roughly equally trivial
[00:57] <lifeless> jelmer: the implementation you suggested doesn't meet loggerheads needs
[00:57] <jelmer> lifeless: what's the context?
[00:57] <lifeless> jelmer: we need a generator
[00:58] <lifeless> to let us return control to the wsgi framework
[00:59] <jelmer> lifeless: but you're not actually going to stream the data, just send it all in a bulk at the end?
[00:59] <lifeless> we are streaming
[00:59] <jelmer> lifeless: the generator still takes a tarball argument, and adds the data there as well
[00:59] <lifeless> I would like it if geoffs patch were evaluated directly on its impact on bzrlib: is it sufficiently tested, will it decrease performance, or make things be structured badly.
[01:00] <lifeless> jelmer: that doesn't matter.
[01:00] <lifeless> jelmer: loggerheads tarball object is mapped to a file object that accumulates the bytes in a buffer; when each yield occurs the accumulated bytes are handed off to the wsgi stack
[01:05] <spiv> Good morning.
[01:07] <mgz> special mailing list post of the day: <http://lists.ironpython.com/pipermail/users-ironpython.com/2011-June/014868.html>
[01:10] <jelmer> lifeless: that seems more complicated than just iterating over the items and files and writing out item.tobuf() + file.read()
[01:10] <lifeless> jelmer: that would a) not work with zip files, b) not stream.
[01:11] <jelmer> lifeless: this function doesn't work with zip files anyway
[01:11] <lifeless> but the structure will
[01:11] <jelmer> lifeless: both ways stream per file
[01:11] <lifeless> shrug
[01:11] <lifeless> I don't really want to overdesign this
[01:11] <lifeless> I don't want geoff blocked on something that makes it harder for him or loggerhead
[01:11] <lifeless> and he is right now
[01:12] <lifeless> if the design is poor, we should ask him to fix it
[01:12] <jelmer> anyway, I haven't voted on this, and I don't feel strongly about it. I was just saying it seemed simpler to factor out the body of the loop, rather than creating a generator which makes things more complex imho
[01:12] <lifeless> but you seem to want to solve different problems
[01:12] <lifeless> jelmer: it requires a generator
[01:12] <lifeless> _requires_
[01:13] <jelmer> that generator can be in loggerhead
[01:13] <jelmer> and just be a three line loop
[01:14] <lifeless> jelmer: Well, that won't work for .zip files (which folk will want), because they don't have the same output model
[01:14] <lifeless> I don't think it makes sense to make the loggerhead code simpler for tarballs at the cost of needing two codepaths in loggerhead for zip/tarballs
[01:15] <jelmer> IIRC zipfiles in Python don't stream anyway
[01:16] <lifeless>                 zipf.writestr(zinfo, content)
[01:16] <lifeless> is the per-file stuff
[01:16] <lifeless> so, it needs a similar tweak to permit this in loggerhead for zip files
[01:16] <lifeless> I think writing to the file is simple and clear
[01:17] <lifeless> we can have the same contract for both generators, both live in bzrlib.export.*, and one driver for adapting them to wsgi streaming
[01:17] <lifeless> if we have /any/ tar specific code in loggerhead that won't work.
[01:17] <lifeless> which is what I don't like about your proposal
[01:17] <lifeless> mgz: win
[01:18] <lifeless> mgz: I presume you know about the great regex mistake ?
[01:20] <mgz> I thought you'd appreciate that lifeless :)
[01:21] <jelmer> lifeless: I don't see how that helps; ZipFile's constructor requires a filename or seekable file object
[01:22] <lifeless> jelmer: we manage to export to stdout
[01:22]  * jelmer gets some sleep
[01:22] <lifeless> jelmer: which is nonrewindable
[01:22] <jelmer> lifeless: charis:~/src/bzr/bzr.dev% bzr export --format=zip -
[01:22] <jelmer> bzr: ERROR: [Errno 29] Illegal seek
[01:23] <lifeless> ah! ok, so bugs to fix there.
[01:23] <lifeless> still, i think making the contract be tied to tar would be a mistake
[01:23] <lifeless> sleep well
[01:23] <mgz> the zipfile module is pretty useless unfortunately
[01:23] <mgz> it's been multiply threatened with a rewrite that's never arrived
[01:24] <lifeless> we have/had a fixed copy
[01:24] <lifeless> bbiab, grocery shopping needs doing
[01:25] <jelmer> I think one of the problems is that the zip file format requires the compressed/uncompressed sizes to be known up front
[01:25] <jelmer> anyway, really gone now.. :)
[01:26] <mgz> hm, really? I thought the header was minimal and everything that mattered was in the tail.
[01:27] <mgz> hence the gif/zip hacks.
[01:27] <jelmer> yeah, you're right
[01:27] <jelmer> wikipedia confused me because it still calls them headers
[01:28] <mgz> beheaded headers
[01:28] <mgz> they're severed and placed in a basket at the end
[06:32] <gour> i'm converting all my old repos to bzr and while doing it i just wanted to put one old project under bzr (no conversion from some other DVCS), but bzr failed with: http://pastebin.com/Jtt4HtAP
[06:52] <gour> i've found it as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-diffstat/+bug/56680
[06:53] <gour> and it's more than 4yrs ago since it's reported...it would be cool to fix it before 2.4
[06:55] <gour> another one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-submit/+bug/67973
[07:02] <gour> the most recent activity in regard to this problem seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-explorer/+bug/735349
[07:32] <AuroraBorealis> does anyone know if launchpad will be getting a wiki?
[07:32] <AuroraBorealis> cause ive been contributing to a project on github and its a much nicer site :<
[07:34] <gour> AuroraBorealis: there is discussiion about it atm
[07:35] <AuroraBorealis> hmm
[07:35] <gour> AuroraBorealis: check https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/240067
[07:37] <AuroraBorealis> i think its a bit more then low priority =/
[07:38] <spiv> AuroraBorealis: note that that the 'launchpad' project only really uses Critical, High, and Low.  https://dev.launchpad.net/BugTriage#Importance
[07:38] <gour> this is certainly one of the features i really miss in LP, but i prefer bzr much more than git
[07:39] <gour> ..which i simply cannot stand
[07:39] <gour> i even use bzr-git for fetching github projects
[07:39] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: low means it isn't being worked on by lp devs
[07:40] <AuroraBorealis> i see
[07:40] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: I'd like to see LP get a wiki...
[07:40] <thumper> but I keep spending time writing other stuff
[07:40] <thumper> perhaps I'll instigate my own 20% time
[07:40] <AuroraBorealis> cause my projects on launchpad just seem confusing compared to github
[07:41] <spiv> I'm not sure adding a large complex feature to Launchpad will automatically reduce that confusion :)
[07:42] <spiv> I agree a wiki for projects would be nice.
[07:43] <AuroraBorealis> i feel the entire website needs to be revamped hehe
[07:43] <AuroraBorealis> but a wiki just seems like another tab
[07:48] <AuroraBorealis> also i'm confused on the little history graph things launchpad branches have
[07:48] <AuroraBorealis> https://launchpad.net/inkscape for example, does it go up then right?
[07:50] <spiv> AuroraBorealis: does the larger view at https://launchpad.net/inkscape/+series make it clearer?
[07:51] <AuroraBorealis> so it seems like 'trunk' is the vertical line
[07:51] <AuroraBorealis> and they keep branching off
[07:51] <spiv> Or for comparison, https://launchpad.net/bzr/+series
[07:52] <AuroraBorealis> but am i right that it seems the main trunk branch is on the left?
[07:52] <spiv> The bzr example is a bit more interesting perhaps because you can see the dates of releases from different series overlapping.
[07:52] <spiv> It's not a graph of branches or revision history.
[07:53] <AuroraBorealis> so its just a graph of versions?
[07:53] <AuroraBorealis> or 'series'
[07:53] <spiv> It's a visualisation of release series and their milestones.
[07:53] <AuroraBorealis> ah. k
[07:53] <AuroraBorealis> so i take it launchpad doesn't have a graph of revisions
[07:55] <spiv> Someone really ought to integrate one into loggerhead.  You can browse the revision history by following the “Browse the code” link on e.g. https://launchpad.net/inkscape
[07:56] <spiv> It doesn't yet do the sorts of pretty graphs you get with bzr GUIs like 'bzr qlog', but I'm sure someone will do one for it eventually.
[07:56] <AuroraBorealis> which take like 5 clicks to get to
[07:56] <spiv> Which do?
[07:56] <AuroraBorealis> to get to the link to 'view all revisions' hehe
[07:56] <AuroraBorealis> and yeah i was just using github to contribute to some project and i liked their revision graph
[07:56] <spiv> I count 2 clicks.
[07:57] <spiv> From https://launchpad.net/inkscape click “Browse the code”, from there click “view branch changes”
[07:57] <AuroraBorealis> ah that. i clicked code at the top
[07:58] <spiv> Yes, it's a nice graph.  Fortunately you can get the same thing in a local GUI via 'bzr qlog' (qbzr plugin) or 'bzr viz' (bzr-gtk plugin).
[07:58] <AuroraBorealis> yeah i use bzr explorer which i think has qlog in there
[07:58] <AuroraBorealis> https://github.com/sr/git-wiki/network is sweet :>
[07:58] <spiv> Which isn't quite as convenient as having it in a web page, but it's good enough for me at least.
[08:01] <AuroraBorealis> yeah
[08:07] <AuroraBorealis> geez branching the bzr source is taking forever xD
[08:12] <spiv> Have you done "bzr lp-login"?
[08:12] <AuroraBorealis> i have not
[08:12] <AuroraBorealis> is that why its taking forever?
[08:14] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: yes
[08:14] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: it'll be going over http
[08:14] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: instead of the bzr+ssh protocol
[08:14] <AuroraBorealis> doh
[08:14] <AuroraBorealis> well i'll do that after it finishes
[08:16] <AuroraBorealis> does it not need my password?
[08:16] <thumper> AuroraBorealis: it needs an ssh key on LP
[08:16] <AuroraBorealis> yeah i have that
[08:16] <thumper> then you're good
[08:16] <AuroraBorealis> but i just typed launchpad-login <username> and it didnt output anything
[08:19] <aurora|game> it seems to be working. thanks =)
[08:22] <gour> aurora|game: have you tried github's bug tracker?
[08:22]  * gour grins :-)
[08:47] <AuroraBorealis_> sorry gour , no i have not, is it crappy?
[08:49] <gour> AuroraBorealis_: i'd say, yes
[08:49] <gour> it cannot compare with LP's features
[08:50] <AuroraBorealis_> haha
[08:50] <AuroraBorealis_> cool.
[08:51] <AuroraBorealis_> im just experimenting with a lot of stuff. I like bzr cuase i can host my private code (stuff for school) on my own server and stuff
[09:00] <gour> AuroraBorealis_: i used darcs for many years, tried hg, touched git, played with monotone and recently used fossil, but now i'm moving to bzr which is simply the most intuitive & complete dvcs ("..for human being.")
[09:04] <AuroraBorealis_> hehe
[09:04] <AuroraBorealis_> yeah, i like it
[09:05] <AuroraBorealis_> plus its python, git seems to be very linux centric.
[09:05] <gour> darcs was(is) great tool, but it does not have LP or any similar, even less featured, public hosting solution
[09:05] <AuroraBorealis_> never heard of darcs
[09:06] <gour> git looks to me as a big hack, without real design behind it...monotone is nicely designed, but it's niche
[09:06] <AuroraBorealis_> i installed git
[09:06] <AuroraBorealis_> and it installed a shitty ssh.exe to my path which screwed up bazaar
[09:06] <gour> AuroraBorealis_: http://darcs.net/ it has patch theory and it's quite different and very intuitive
[09:06] <gour> bzr is 'sweet spot'
[09:07] <AuroraBorealis_> yeah =)
[09:45] <jelmer> gour: still there?
[09:45] <jelmer> gour: those two bugs you mentioned are unrelated to the issue you're seeing
[09:46] <gour> jelmer: yeah, i'm here
[09:47] <gour> hmm
[09:47] <gour> last one is relevant?
[09:47] <jelmer> gour: they're indeed UnicodeDecodeError tracebacks too, but raised from a different location
[09:47] <jelmer> gour: the bzr-explorer one?
[09:48] <gour> yes
[09:50] <gour> so, it looks all are from different locations, but same symptoms
[09:54]  * gour was pointed at the right one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-explorer/+bug/735349
[09:55] <gour> ahh...wrong one
[09:55] <gour> this one is correct: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/715547
[10:31] <spiv> maxb: around?
[10:31] <jelmer> 'morning spiv
[10:34] <spiv> Good evening jelmer :)
[10:53] <gour> seeing that SF has support for web pages and wiki, i wonder what do you think about LP vs SF for hosting projects under bzr?
[10:54] <spiv> Depends on what your project needs.  You can always use both of course!
[10:54] <spiv> I find the SF bug tracker to be much, much worse than LP's.
[10:56] <gour> problem is that LP does not have neither space for web page nor wiki
[10:56] <fullermd> Not only that, it doesn't even provide CVS.
[10:57] <spiv> Sure.
[10:58] <gour> i do not worry for lack of CVS :-)
[10:58] <spiv> It is an issue for many projects.  Some are small enough that a link in the project description to the contents of the README file in bzr is plenty, and some are large enough that they have their own website anyway.  But there's a big set of stuff in between those that want that sort of feature, and LP doesn't yet cater well to that.
[10:58] <gour> but LP is the only one from {github,bitbucket, google,sf,lp} missing wikis
[10:59] <spiv> Sure.  We know.
[11:00] <spiv> Pretty much everyone thinks LP should have them too, including the LP dev team I think :)
[11:00] <gour> and the 'bug' is quite old already
[11:01] <spiv> Right.  The paid LP devs are already pretty busy with other work: <https://dev.launchpad.net/RoadMap>
[11:01] <spiv> But if someone were to help write the necessary bits I'm sure it'd be welcomed!
[11:02] <gour> lack of wiki is turning many people to 'competition' which is sad
[11:02] <spiv> It would be nice to have, but getting free or cheap webhosting elsewhere for those bits isn't too hard, so I understand why it isn't an urgent priority for the LP team.
[11:03] <spiv> Is it?
[11:04] <gour> i believe it is...having code on one site, tracker on another, wiki on the 3rd...not pretty
[11:04] <gour> considering that other hostings have all-in-one
[11:04] <gour> {github,bitbucket, google,sf} probably support wiki with a good reason ;)
[11:08] <lifeless> wiki != webhosting fwiw
[11:08] <gour> lifeless: i'd be satisfied with just having wiki on LP
[11:09] <lifeless> well, its getting specced at the moment
[11:09] <lifeless> its still ill defined what that actually means
[11:09] <gour> even just to render sphinx-generated pages
[11:10] <gour> lifeless: why don't you inspect what's offered at {github,bitbucket, google,sf} instead of reinventing the wheel
[11:10] <lifeless> gour: uhm, we have and are?
[11:10] <spiv> gour: what makes you think that's not happening?
[11:10] <lifeless> gour: they all have quite different offerings
[11:11] <lifeless> gour: and none of those commercial, proprietary services have been kind enough to share their user and market needs analysis with us.
[11:12] <gour> the point is the many people/projects would like to have wiki, that's why {github,bitbucket, google,sf}  have it...it's only question to adjust to the LP
[11:12] <gour> here i'd say that "even blind uncle" applies
[11:12] <spiv> gour: if it's that easy, then please go ahead and do it!
[11:12] <spiv> gour: it's open source, and patches are certainly welcome.
[11:13] <gour> it's not that the rest of LP is perfect in the 1.0 release
[11:13] <gour> spiv: i do not have neither required skills nor time to work on it...wikkid is a project launched for that purpose, afaik
[11:14] <spiv> gour: Ok.  Apparently no-one else has had the skills and time yet either, though.
[11:14]  * gour is thankful to have free LP, but lack of wiki might move me to SF
[11:15] <spiv> Which, as one of those people who also lacks the time, I completely understand!
[11:15] <gour> spiv: pls. don't think i am criticizing LP...just want to improve it...because, let's face it - less LP customers also means less bzr ones
[11:15] <lifeless> gour: we want it, but we want it done well. Getting a free wiki with links to it from LP is -dead- easy - heck we even model links to the wiki in LP today.
[11:16] <fullermd> I note that when I put a project on SF, I don't think it had any wiki support.  And I think it's had 3 different wiki generations since then.
[11:16] <gour> i strongly believe github is not popular just because of git
[11:17] <spiv> gour: I agree, github does many things quite well
[11:17] <gour> fullermd: how are you satisfied with SF & bzr?
[11:17] <fullermd> Well, I've never yet used bzr on SF.  My project there is in CVS   :p
[11:18] <lifeless> we're not short on desire, we're short on elbow grease; doing a system that will run 20K wikis with no page renders over 5 seconds and 99% under 1 second, no single points of failure and embeddable in the same domain [so entirely xss free] is -nontrivial-
[11:18] <maxb> spiv: Now I am
[11:18] <fullermd> Their docs on bzr aren't seemingly maintained at all.  Last I looked, they still said they support bzr 1.10, when it was easy to tell they were running 2.1 or 2.2.
[11:18] <spiv> maxb: oh hey, I was just having a temporary thinko with the kde-l10n-* command
[11:19] <spiv> maxb: it's requeued now, although I see kde-l10n-th has developed a new and interesting failure
[11:19] <spiv> Perhaps an empty bzrdir on LP or something as a remnant of the previous failures?
[11:20]  * maxb looks at kde-l10n-th and thinks "WTF!?"
[11:21] <gour> according to wikipedia, github was launched in feb 2008, and wiki 'bug' at LP is from june same year
[11:21] <spiv> maxb: previous line in log is about opening the working tree for kde-l10n-th/karmic-backports
[11:22] <lifeless> gour: yes, the desire has been around a while
[11:22] <spiv> gour: I'm really not sure what your point is?  LP does many things github doesn't, like PPAs
[11:23] <spiv> gour: because while they may have overlapping goals, they also have differing ones too, and accordingly differing priorities.
[11:23] <gour> spiv: aren't PPAs rlevant only for Ubuntu?
[11:23] <spiv> gour: they're pretty relevant to where the LP dev spend their time as well :)
[11:23] <gour> spiv: maybe only to change priority from Low :-)
[11:24] <spiv> gour: see https://dev.launchpad.net/BugTriage#Importance
[11:25] <lifeless> gour: low is accurate: we're not going to try and make this happen using paid developers in the next 6 months. And as priorities change, we don't try and assess priorities more than 6 months out.
[11:25] <gour> spiv: Low - We mark as Low any bug that we recognise as legitimate but that we have no plans to fix.
[11:25] <spiv> gour: right — and the paid LP team doesn't plan more than 6 months in advance.
[11:26] <spiv> (Not in this sense, at least)
[11:26] <lifeless> hmm, I think thats confusing
[11:26] <lifeless> so I will edit
[11:27] <gour> and it's already 3years...the whole point, and here i can stop from my side, is that lack of wiki at LP causes harm to the LP & bzr since people/projects needing one go to {bb,github.sf, google}...
[11:28]  * gour is researching about SF now...
[11:28] <spiv> gour: sure, but so do all the other bugs and missing features of LP
[11:28] <spiv> gour: and so far it's been the opinion that those are even more important to address using the finite resources available
[11:29] <spiv> Your opinion is obviously different, but stating it here isn't going to change matters.
[11:29] <gour> one of the first hits - http://amanica.blogspot.com/2011/05/bazaar-on-sourceforgenet.html
[11:30] <gour> spiv: i'm aware of it and won't discuss it any longer
[11:30] <spiv> You could try to advocate for it on the launchpad-dev list perhaps.  If you present evidence that it really is a huge factor in driving potential users away that would be useful I think.
[11:42] <spiv> maxb: those kde-l10n-* are failing due to branches on LP that are just empty directories, not even a .bzr dir.  I guess we try deleting them from LP and requeuing.
[11:42] <EM03> why bzr over git?
[11:43] <EM03> git is faster? I mean whats a killer feature?
[11:43] <spiv> Many people find it nicer to use.
[11:43] <EM03> an example?
[11:49] <Riddell> poolie: I still can't access jubany, what's the rt URL to complain on?
[11:49] <gour> EM03: git help log vs. bzr help log ;)
[11:49] <EM03> hehehe
[11:50] <EM03> i know git very well and its quick just curious why one would choose bzr
[11:50] <gour> "it's for human being"
[11:50] <EM03> can i have an example were thats true?
[11:50] <EM03> (not saying it isn't)
[11:51] <gour> i'm spoild by darcs ui, and bzr is quite pleasant to use...with git one has to think too much about the tool
[11:51] <gour> git's ui, model...
[11:51] <gour> EM03: have you tried monotone?
[11:53] <gour> e.g. i tried to become power user of orgmode, but it required too much time...otoh, taskwarrior was so intuitive...same with git vs. bzr
[11:53] <gour> EM03: otoh, if you like git, be free to continue with it ;)
[11:53] <maxb> spiv: Right - if only all the failures were that easy :-)
[11:54] <EM03> gour: not that I'm in love with it just want to see se bzr is better :P
[11:56] <gour> EM03: just try to use it for some time and don't think that some extra ms are worth the effort to think how to avoid shooting one's own feet ;)
[11:56] <EM03> oh gour , you make it sound so easy
[11:56] <gour> EM03: on which platform you are?
[11:57] <gour> EM03: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[11:58] <gour> and http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/tutorials/tutorial.html
[11:58]  * gour was playing with bzr when changing the format was the rule :_)
[11:58] <spiv> maxb: still failing; but updated
[11:58] <spiv> s/but/bug/
[11:59] <maxb> "There is already a branch merge proposal registered for branch lp:~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/hardy/kde-l10n-th/hardy-201106020937 to land on lp:ubuntu/hardy/kde-l10n-th that is still active."
[12:00] <jelmer> gour: we still seem to have that image, while in fact the last change of the default format was quite some time ago (2 years?)
[12:02] <gour> jelmer: yeah, labelling is hard..just ask lightttpd guy about memory leaks
[12:02] <gour> *guys
[12:03] <fullermd> Funnily enough, every time I use monotone, I get another round of "sorry, I can't do anything until you 'mtn db migrate' to update the database structure".
[12:03] <gour> i'm also tired about git's tspeed-talk as it's the only relevant feature of dvcs
[12:03] <maxb> tspeed-talk?
[12:03] <gour> speed-talk
[12:04] <gour> fullermd: heh, foosil borrowed some stuff from mtn
[12:04] <gour> *fossil
[12:04] <maxb> Well, in fairness to git, there are some applications where I'd rather use bzr, but am compelled to use git for the performance
[12:04]  * gour cannot type properly... :-/
[12:04] <lifeless> maxb: you know jam will fix those :)
[12:04]  * gour does not work on kernel-sized projects ==> no need for git
[12:05]  * maxb is keeping the revprops tree of a Subversion repository with >1 million revisions in Git
[12:05] <maxb> bzr doesn't really like a tree with >1 million files and 1.9GB in size
[12:06] <lifeless> maxb: hmmm, it should handle it
[12:06] <lifeless> maxb: the dirstate would be sizable
[12:06] <maxb> It probably can handle it, but not quickly enough to be palatable for a human user
[12:07] <maxb> Even git is far from instantaneous on a tree that size
[12:07] <lifeless> sure
[12:07] <lifeless> file a bug ?
[12:07] <lifeless> gnight all
[12:09] <maxb> A bug on "Performance on big trees does not compare favourably to Git" feels a bit like bug
[12:09] <maxb> A bug on "Performance on big trees does not compare favourably to Git" feels a bit like bug 1
[12:12] <maxb> jelmer: You seem to have push --overwritten me in pkg-bazaar/bzr/2.4 :-/
[12:12] <lifeless> maxb: 'bzr takes 60 seconds to st a 1M file tree with hot cache'
[12:12] <lifeless> maxb: you don't need to say git in there at all
[12:12] <maxb> fair enough
[12:19] <jelmer> maxb: Yeah, sorry about that - I'd already done the merge locally too, with some additional changes and there weren't any other changes than the merge
[12:20] <jelmer> I tried merging your branch, but I got conflicts on the generated files so I opted to --overwrite instead
[12:33] <maxb> Unfortunately those revisions are already merged into the beta-ppa branches
[12:34] <maxb> I guess I'll sort out a merge
[12:38] <jelmer> maxb: sorry, I hadn't realized it was there as well
[15:47] <deni> hi guys
[15:47] <deni> can anyone tell me how to start the freaking olive gui? i installed bzr-gtk which should be the package for olive
[15:53] <maxb> Not any more. Olive has been split from bzr-gtk and is now a wholly separate project
[15:54] <deni> maxb: can i find it debain repos?
[15:56] <maxb> I am uncertain whether it has been packaged
[15:56] <maxb> I'd search on the BTS, but bugs.debian.org seems to be down right now
[15:56] <jelmer> I'm pretty sure it's not packaged
[15:57] <maxb> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=598703
[15:57] <deni> on the main page it says i can install it via leeny-backports
[15:58] <deni> i tried to install bzr via squeeze backport and i don't think it installed any gui frontends
[15:59] <jelmer> deni: it should install a olive-gtk executable in /usr/bin
[16:00] <deni> jelmer: nope
[16:00] <deni> also it can't find it in the repos
[16:01] <jelmer> deni: it's there, see http://packages.debian.org/lenny/all/bzr-gtk/filelist
[16:02] <deni> i hva the bzr-gtk package
[16:02] <deni> ]don't know how to start that though
[16:02] <deni> autocomplete says there is no olive or bzr-gtk app
[16:03] <jelmer> deni: it's not in squeeze, you need the lenny package
[16:06] <deni> jelmer: still not luck
[16:06] <deni> meh
[16:06] <deni> will try tomorrow
[16:06] <deni> thank for your help
[16:06] <jelmer> deni: see that page, it's definitely there in the lenny package
[16:07] <deni> jelmer: ok, tnx
[16:08] <jelmer> deni: that said, I'm not sure if it will work with newer versions of bzr, for example
[16:08] <jelmer> you might have more luck just pulling down the source from lp:olive
[16:11] <Riddell> jam: able to take another (hopefully final) look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/bzr/598572-zlib-error/+merge/62966 and https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/bzr/707274-commit-message-hook/+merge/62334 ?
[16:34] <jelmer> hi Riddell
[16:34] <jelmer> Riddell: It's ascension day here in .nl, IIRC John is away for the next couple of days
[16:35] <Riddell> ah, religion leaving us without a patch pilot
[16:40] <ovnicraft> hello i am testing a bzr oodifff plugin i get this error: http://pastie.org/2009130
[16:40] <ovnicraft> i cant fixed so i see is based in bzr api
[16:40] <ovnicraft> any hits to fixed ?
[16:40] <ovnicraft> fix it ?
[16:43] <ovnicraft> its in your doc http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/oodiff.html
[16:45] <jelmer> Riddell: reviewed the zlib error MP
[16:45] <jelmer> ovnicraft: hi
[16:45] <ovnicraft> jelmer, hi
[16:46] <ovnicraft> i see in that plugin is trying to use get_default_plugin_path()
[16:47] <ovnicraft> jelmer, can you help me  ?
[16:59] <Riddell> jelmer_: what does it mean if you approve it in your review but the status is still Needs review?
[17:06] <maxb> Usually means the reviewer forgot that LP's review model has that distinction :-)
[17:10] <jelmer_> Riddell: what Max says, it means I'm stupid :)
[17:10] <Riddell> groovy, I'll self approve
[17:16] <ovnicraft> hello i have this error with my oodiff plugin http://pastie.org/2009303
[17:17] <ovnicraft> bzr needs any explicit configuration with ASCII ?
[17:17] <jelmer> ovnicraft: that looks like a bug in the plugin
[17:17] <jelmer> ovnicraft: please file a bug against the bzr-oodiff project
[17:18] <jelmer> hmm, it doesn't appear to have been touched since 2009 :-/
[17:18] <ovnicraft> jelmer, yes
[17:18] <jelmer> Riddell: ooh, that builddeb hook is neat
[17:18] <ovnicraft> and i want to support it
[17:19] <ovnicraft> jelmer, method implemented is working now
[17:20] <ovnicraft> jelmer, you can see the method http://paste.pocoo.org/show/399537/
[17:21] <jelmer> ovnicraft: I think you need to pass in plain strings to the diff function
[17:22] <jelmer> the XML document probably contains unicode strings, which you'd have to encode (to utf-8, perhaps?)
[17:22] <ovnicraft> so i need encode to utf-8 my files ?
[17:23] <jelmer> no, in bzr-oodiff before you call text_differ(), you need to encode the strings you pass to it
[17:25] <jelmer> from_text = [l.encode("utf-8") for l in from_text]
[17:26] <ovnicraft> so with utf-8 files encoded is working ok
[17:26] <jelmer> cool :)
[17:27] <ovnicraft> now will apply your changes and see waht happen
[17:27] <ovnicraft> what*
[19:16] <dcoles> Hm. Here's a bit of a worrying one. Should bzr-svn ever eat a svn revision.
[19:16] <dcoles> As in running svn log on trunk shows the revision yet bzr log doesn't.
[19:17] <jelmer> dcoles: there's an open bug report about that - it's fixed in zbr-svn trunk
[19:18] <jelmer> at least, if I think it's the issue I think you mean
[19:18] <dcoles> Basically the svn revision appears invisible to bzr-svn (I can't -rsvn:# it)
[19:19] <dcoles> It resulted in a rather interesting "Why did you revert my change. I didn't revert anything. You never made that change" *grin*
[19:20] <dcoles> I'll try trunk.
[19:21] <jelmer> dcoles: it's a race condition
[19:21] <jelmer> dcoles: upgrading to trunk won't fix the earlier revision, but it will prevent the race in the future
[19:33] <dcoles> Was that lp:515850
[19:33] <dcoles> Bug #515850
[19:33] <jelmer> yep
[21:06] <jjohansen> I have been trying to setup a git clone of a bzr tree and have run into a problem.  Basically the tree has some tags with ~ in the name which git doesn't like
[21:07] <jjohansen> is there any way to work around this?
[23:12] <rattasak> Hi, I just started using bazaar and believe i am misunderstanding something about shared repositories.  i have a project with code files in ~/projectA.  i create a repo on a mapped network drive by using 'bzr init-repository --trees /drive/repo' and then create an branch for the project i want to track in the repo using 'bzr init /drive/repo/projectA'
[23:13] <maxb> jelmer: https://code.launchpad.net/~dulwich/dulwich/unstable mirroring has stopped due to the failure of alioth. Could you update the URL to include a /bzr/ path segment and restart it?
[23:13] <rattasak> i then do 'bzr checkout /drive/projectA projectA'
[23:13] <rattasak> add and commit the files in that working directory using bzr add and bzr commit
[23:13] <rattasak> but when i check the repo at /drive/repo, i don't see a working tree there
[23:14] <maxb> Ok, so a couple of things
[23:14] <maxb> First, why would you even want a working tree on a shared drive?
[23:14] <maxb> Second, the act of sending revisions to a remote branch does not cause its working tree to be updated.
[23:15] <rattasak> ah, reliability of the network drive is a slight issue atm so i would like to have a working copy there in case the history files get corrupted during the push (which is something i'll fix with the network drive soon and is not ideal)
[23:15] <rattasak> ah
[23:16] <rattasak> doing a commit locally on something that was checkouted does a puch to the corresponding remote branch right?
[23:16] <rattasak> push*
[23:16] <maxb> Yes
[23:16] <rattasak> i see
[23:18] <rattasak> is there a set of conditions or a command to explicitly update the remote working tree?
[23:19] <maxb> "bzr update"
[23:19] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/bzr-push-and-update may be of interest to you
[23:19] <lifeless> (run on the remote machine)
[23:20] <maxb> Although I'm not sure it will work with a checkout, from its description
[23:20] <rattasak> aaah gotcha, bzr update within the repo's working tree then (e.g. /drive/repo/projectA)?
[23:21] <maxb> Yes
[23:22] <rattasak> aah great!  just tried it out.
[23:22] <rattasak> thanks for both of your guys help
[23:22] <maxb> Although, as a backup methodology, I think you would be better off setting up an automatically updated copy of the *branch* elsewhere
[23:22] <rattasak> ah i see
[23:23] <rattasak> maybe do a sync instead of the local working directory?
[23:23] <rattasak> sync with an external program i mean
[23:23] <maxb> It is usually a lot better to use "bzr push" or "bzr pull" than an external program
[23:24] <maxb> You cannot guarantee that an external program will do the right thing if the source is being written to
[23:26] <rattasak> push to a standalone branch stored elsewhere?  (if standalone branch means something not stored within a repo...i am migrating from hg so my terminology is a little mixed up)
[23:28] <maxb> Yes (and yes, that's what a standalone branch is)
[23:29] <rattasak> ah ok.  thanks for your help clearing that up for me.
[23:31] <poolie> hi all


[08:17] <Bacta> Hai!
[08:19]  * Atamira burps
[08:19] <Atamira> its the weekend
[08:20] <Bacta> Indeed it is
[08:20] <Atamira> youd be lucky to get many replies on the weekend
[08:21] <Bacta> I wasn't aware that geeks had social lives
[08:21] <Atamira> those with families..yeah
[08:21] <Atamira> mine is older now, so im free to do what i like
[08:26]  * Bacta is wondering when he's going to get banned
[08:27] <Atamira> if you're polite, you wont be banned
[08:27] <Atamira> if you've already pissed off the ops
[08:27] <Atamira> then your guess is as good as mine
[08:28] <Bacta> I have haha
[08:28] <Atamira> tsk tsk
[08:28] <Bacta> And I was told today that I'm supposedly barred from the entire Ubuntu namespace
[08:28] <Atamira> then it was nice knowing you
[08:28] <Atamira> what did you do?
[08:28] <Bacta> But here I am
[08:28] <Bacta> Oh a bunch of things
[08:29] <Bacta> From memory I made jokes about the name of an Ubuntu release
[08:29] <Bacta> You know, how they're named after monkeys and stuff
[08:32] <Bacta> I don't really care about them though
[08:32] <Bacta> Doesn't stop me from contributing to Ubuntu here in NZ
[08:34] <Atamira> only one release is named after monkeys
[08:34] <Atamira> theya re named after animals
[08:34] <Atamira> have you tried club ubuntu?
[08:35] <Bacta> Yep, good channel
[08:35] <Atamira> so sit in there a whine
[08:35] <Atamira> fireworks
[08:35] <Bacta> Unofficial, no oligarchs
[08:35] <Bacta> Whine about what?
[08:35] <Bacta> What's with the hostility? I do not understand it
[14:13] <ikonia> Atamira: are you an op in #ubuntu-nz ?
[14:14] <Atamira> nope
[14:15] <ikonia> ah
[14:15] <ikonia> hence why you're not aware of "bacta" then
[14:16] <Atamira> nope, not until he mentioned it


[12:23] <fossfreedom_> vinzv just read an email from yourself to Nikola - if you have any tweaks etc that could be suggested for the main 18.04 release please shout out.  TIA
[12:24] <vinzv> fossfreedom_: hi, currently the tweaks i have on my list are only visual customizations to fit our corporate design better
[12:25] <vinzv> wallpapers, additional icons, theme selections
[12:25] <vinzv> we'll see if there are things coming up being relevant to upstream ubuntu budgie.
[12:25] <fossfreedom_> adding these via the oem install option or are you remaking the ISO as a custom ISO?
[12:30] <vinzv> neither nor
[12:30] <vinzv> we're installing via FAI (fai-project.org) fully automated
[12:30] <vinzv> customers get access to our FAI server for manual reinstall if they want to
[12:31] <vinzv> as we offer various ubuntu flavors we're installing ubuntu minimal plus adding metapackages afterwards.
[12:31] <fossfreedom_> intriguing - will read up on that
[12:33] <vinzv> the customer get's his machine in OEM mode to setup username, passwort etc. at his preferences.
[12:33] <vinzv> some tweakings are done by some "firstrun" script afterwards.
[12:34] <fossfreedom_> ah - makes sense
[18:25] <fabioabibi> hi folks
[18:29] <fabioabibi> I'm testing Ubuntu Budgie, and it's great, but I have a little issue... I use "Nemo" instead "Nautilus", but I can't make it call tilix to open in terminal, only installing gnome-terminal


[01:25] <phunyguy> I could've sworn I've seen him do that before....
[02:14] <SamwiseGamgee> Can you send me a link that explains the whole conference process, and how it works?
[02:16] <hggdh> SamwiseGamgee: I am sorry, but what conference is this?
[02:17] <SamwiseGamgee> the monthy conference that happens every third Wednesday of the month
[02:18] <hggdh> it is not a conference, it is a meeting
[02:18] <SamwiseGamgee> in which channel does the meeting take place?
[02:19] <hggdh> usually in #ubuntu-meetings. But I am not sure we will have one this month
[02:19] <hggdh> SamwiseGamgee: what drives you to the meeting?
[02:20] <SamwiseGamgee> it would be August 20
[02:20] <SamwiseGamgee> Ban appeal
[02:20] <hggdh> SamwiseGamgee: I already answered you on both emails. Perhaps your spam filters are overly active?
[02:21] <SamwiseGamgee> rww told me to email the council again since they did not respond to my August 12 formal letter
[02:21] <hggdh> see above
[02:21] <SamwiseGamgee> did you send it to my Yahoo email or my hotmail email?
[02:22] <hggdh> I replied to all. Frankly I did not look at the email addresses
[02:22] <SamwiseGamgee> I sent the formal ban appeal using my Yahoo email, and I received no response
[02:22] <SamwiseGamgee> I sent it on August 12
[02:22] <hggdh> I know. I replied to it. And to the one from Aug 6th
[02:24] <hggdh> I can even forward my responses again to you, if you want it.
[02:24] <SamwiseGamgee> yes, good idea
[02:24] <SamwiseGamgee> hold on
[02:24] <SamwiseGamgee> Let me send you my Hotmail address, first
[02:24] <hggdh> I have in the email from Aug 12th
[02:25] <SamwiseGamgee> I tried private messaging you hggdh
[02:25] <SamwiseGamgee> so I can give you my hotmail address
[02:26] <SamwiseGamgee> it did not work
[07:23] <bazhang> SanuraiRM, did you need some help here
[07:24] <SanuraiRM> yes i banned on xubuntu
[07:24] <bazhang> SanuraiRM, yes, that's correct; for using bad language and being offtopic
[08:00] <ikonia> has anyone had any chance to talk to the #ubuntu-it ops ?
[08:05] <bazhang> r w w pinged them at one point
[08:05] <ikonia> super
[08:06] <bazhang> the feeling I got was they dont want him back anytime soon
[08:06] <bazhang> if you witnessed his behavior in #x, you might get why
[08:07] <ikonia> yes, but then he appears to behave fine in #ubuntu, but his english is not good enough to really get him any worthwhile help
[08:07] <ikonia> so he can behave
[08:08] <bazhang> then he starts in with the f-bombs
 Beldar, Also i have this ridiculous plan to bring my gpu back to life using ovenbaking technique i found over the internet.. Its seems very legit
[08:13] <bazhang> rly?
[08:15] <DJones> bazhang: I have heard of that before, http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/293183-33-baking-graphics-card-oven
[08:15] <bazhang> DJones, nice catch!
[08:16] <DJones> From the text "Basically what this does is that it re-melts all the soldering points on the card which fixes the micro cracks when it cools down. The PCB has a lot higher melting point than the solder, and the short 10mins isn't enough to melt the plastic bits such as display ports etc."
[08:16] <DJones> Not that I'd try it, I'd just replace the card
[08:16] <bazhang> of course
[08:21] <SamwiseGamgee> I have been trying to access the irc logs since August 12 both internally and externally, and all my attempts have been unsuccessful.  I have also emailed the council about it and the link they sent me did not work either
[08:21] <ikonia> the link works fine
[08:21] <ikonia> what link are you using
[08:22] <ikonia> you've been given the link at least 10 times, but I've never seen you actually quote it back correctly
[08:22] <ikonia> so what link are you using
[08:22] <SamwiseGamgee> irclogs.ubuntu.com
[08:22] <ikonia> that link works fine
[08:22] <ikonia> I've just checked it, it is up
[08:23] <SamwiseGamgee> No, I found two problems with both the text and the html logs, both for August 12
[08:23] <ikonia> you've not
[08:23] <ikonia> the logs are fine
[08:23] <ikonia> show me the link to the file you think has a problem
[08:23] <k1l> SamwiseGamgee: back then you were linking the w rong channel.
[08:24] <SamwiseGamgee> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/08/11/%23xubuntu.txt
[08:24] <SamwiseGamgee> note it should be August 12
[08:24] <ikonia> it is
[08:24] <k1l> its the 11th
[08:24] <ikonia> you're linking to the 11
[08:24] <SamwiseGamgee> I need the irc logs for August 12 for the #ubuntu room and for the #xubuntu room
[08:24] <ikonia> so go to the 12
[08:25] <SamwiseGamgee> I did, and that's what I got
[08:25] <DJones> SamwiseGamgee: Change the /2014/08/11/ to /2014/08/12/ to give you http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/08/12/%23xubuntu.txt
[08:25] <DJones> Thats will give you the 12th of the month
[08:26] <DJones> If you need logs for other channels on 12th August, you will find them at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/08/12/
[08:27] <SamwiseGamgee> that is better, thanks
[08:28] <SamwiseGamgee> Do you have th links for August 11, for the same rooms?
[08:28] <ikonia> come on !
[08:28] <SamwiseGamgee> the #ubuntu and the #xubuntu rooms
[08:28] <DJones> Just change the 12 in the link to 11
[08:28] <ikonia> you've just been shown how to use this
[08:28] <ikonia> you've had this explained to you at least 10 times now
[08:28] <SamwiseGamgee> ok, I'll try it again
[08:36] <SamwiseGamgee> I was banned by ikonia circa 12:01 am Central Standard time on 12 August 2014, from both the #ubuntu and the #xubuntu channels, and I remember well that it happened, but I can find no evidence that I was in those rooms and actually banned.
[08:38] <SamwiseGamgee> I had texted several messages in those channels that night, and it's not in the irc logs.
[08:39] <SamwiseGamgee> is this because I am not an ubuntu operator?  May be only the operators get full access to the irc logs.  That may explain why there appears to be some much missing text
[08:40] <k1l> SamwiseGamgee: that is just not true. the logs are correct you just need to sort out yourselv to look at the right logs. actually you are linking the wrong logs since days now and we explained you several times how to use the correct one. it is up to you now to sort that out
[08:40] <SamwiseGamgee> ok, I have been trying for 7 days now, I will keep trying, thanks for trying to help, anyway
[08:53] <ikonia> SamwiseGamgee: can I query why you keep pushing these logs ?
[08:53] <ikonia> SamwiseGamgee: you seem very keen/single minded over the logs, which have already been reviewed/discussed
[08:54] <SamwiseGamgee> because of the email I received
[08:54] <SamwiseGamgee> from the council
[08:54] <ikonia> ok
[09:01] <ikonia> SamwiseGamgee: are you "ok" ? and have all the info you need now ?
[09:02] <SamwiseGamgee> No, but I found the full logs, so I have a lot of reading to do
[09:02] <ikonia> what else do you need ?
[09:02] <ikonia> (or what else do you need from the operator team)
[09:02] <SamwiseGamgee> bazhang was very helpful
[09:02] <ikonia> as normal
[09:02] <ikonia> what else are you missing / need from the team ?
[09:02] <bazhang> abby normal
[09:07] <SamwiseGamgee> ikonia, I think you banned me from the #ubuntu room circa 1:00 a.m. on August 12 central standard time, is that remotely correct, or did I get the time wrong?
[09:08] <ikonia> I have no idea of the times off the top of my head
[09:08] <ikonia> one moment and I'll get them for you
[09:09] <SamwiseGamgee> then you banned me from the #xubuntu room, some time around 1:15 a.m., on the same morning 12 August 2014, central standard time, is that correct?
[09:09] <ikonia> only a few minutes after yes, but I'll get the times for you
[09:09] <ikonia> just hold on a moment
[09:09] <SamwiseGamgee> I would certainly appreciate that, ikonia
[09:09] <SamwiseGamgee> thanks for your patience, ikonia
[09:10] <ikonia> Aug 12 2014 07:49:27
[09:10] <ikonia> do you have the logs of you trolling #freenode making up false stuff
[09:10] <ikonia> eg stating that I'd banned you for life etc
[09:10] <ikonia> do you want me to provide those logs for you so you can include thhem in your conversations with the council ?
[09:10] <ikonia> or have you not mentioned that yet ?
[09:11] <SamwiseGamgee> It would be importunate of me to go beyond discussing the irc logs at this point
[09:11] <Tm_T> I wonder why this conversation is still going on
[09:11] <ikonia> yes, I have the irc logs of your behaviour where you make up false stuff
[09:11] <ikonia> I just wondered if you have the logs of that to include in your discussion ?
[09:11] <Tm_T> I believe there were quite decisive answer to SamwiseGamgee
[09:11] <SamwiseGamgee> thank you for giving me the ban time, ikonia
[09:11] <Tm_T> answers even
[09:12] <ikonia> Tm_T: it's going on because it continues in a loop and is persistantly entertained
[09:12] <ikonia> despite the information being shared many times
[09:13] <ikonia>  and rather than just say "enough - you have had your response" we have to continue to do time wasting excersise or we are called dissmissive or unhelpful or various other failures
[09:14] <Tm_T> SamwiseGamgee (and somewhat also ikonia): let's continue the discussion when you have something new to provide to it IF you will have anything new to be provided at some point
[09:14] <Tm_T> it's rather pointless to drag it along at this point like this
[09:14] <SamwiseGamgee> ok
[09:15] <ikonia> Tm_T: I have nothing new to provide - I have stated multiple times I am happy for the ban to be removed once IRC is used iniline with how others expect it to be used, eg: an online interactive resource, rather than an offline meta question service
[09:15] <ikonia> I have no changed that view or made any changes to that despite the utter lies been pushed around
[09:17] <solitaire> I'm just curious
[09:17] <solitaire> anyone have any idea when or why I was banned from #ubuntu ?
[09:17] <SamwiseGamgee> I am sorry that I broke the guidelines and the email I received from the council convinced me it is unreasonable to ask ikonia to apologize
[09:17] <Tm_T> SamwiseGamgee: could you please leave the channel in the meantime?
[09:17] <SamwiseGamgee> ok
[09:17] <solitaire> I think I was banned a long time ago and I honestly can't remember why
[09:20] <k1l> solitaire: you were trolling #ubuntu on 29.09.2013
[09:20] <solitaire> oh
[09:20] <solitaire> could I have a log excerpt?
[09:20] <k1l> !logs
[09:20] <solitaire> k
[09:21] <solitaire> oh I remember that
[09:21] <solitaire> thanks
[09:27] <k1l> solitaire: if thats all please dont idle in this channel. thanks
[09:27] <solitaire> oh right sorry
[11:49] <popey> the !adlens factiod seems problematic
[11:50] <popey> it states "places like Amazon" yet the amazon search was switched off months ago.
[11:50] <ikonia> popey: thats something I've just noticed
[11:50] <popey> also calling it "adlens" seems pejorative
[11:50] <popey> might as well call it !spyware and be done with it
[11:50] <ikonia> although places "like" amazon is still valid as it does search places like amazon
[11:50] <ikonia> what is the name of the package ?
[11:50] <popey> so call it "places like ebay"
[11:51] <popey> what package?
[11:51] <ikonia> the lens one
[11:51] <ikonia> didn't it used to be called adlens or something like that
[11:51] <popey> no
[11:51] <popey> it used to be unity-lens-shopping but hasn't been for a while now
[11:52] <ikonia> I thought that's where the name came from
[11:52] <ikonia> ah that may be it
[11:52] <ikonia> I guess just write up a new one
[11:53] <ikonia> it is old, so I'm sure it's just not been updated as things have changed
[11:54] <popey> i thought it was changed recently when the irc council did a sweep of them
[11:54] <popey> i certainly only noticed the "adlens" name recently
[11:54] <ikonia> I don't remember that one being in the list, but I dont know for sure
[11:54] <ikonia> I remember it as adlens for a long time
[11:54] <ikonia> I don't think that's new at all
[11:54] <ikonia> (unless it was an alias to something else)
[11:55] <ikonia> I don't see a problem with the name personally, but if there is better content, that would be most welcome
[11:57] <popey> ok
[11:57] <ikonia> (I wasn't saying don't change the name either)
[11:57] <ikonia> I just didn't see an issue with it
[11:57] <ikonia> a better update of any sort would be cool
[11:58] <ikonia> something linking to a factual summary wiki page type thing listing exactly what it does search/submit to where and how
[11:58] <ikonia> that would be really useful to stop the unknown questions
[11:59] <ikonia> infact that would be REALLY useful
[12:00] <ikonia> popey: is something like that possible (I'll assist where I can)
[12:01] <popey> "If you do not wish to see "More Suggestions" from the Internet in your Unity Dash then switch it off in System Settings -> Security & Privacy -> Search. Some technical information about the feature can be found at http://tinyurl.com/8khueko & http://tinyurl.com/cxv4sus"
[12:01] <popey> hows that?
[12:02] <ikonia> doesn't look badly worded at all
[12:02] <ikonia> getting a wiki type page of what it searched/submitted how/when would be good
[12:02] <ikonia> I didn't see it including in those blog posts I scanned,
[12:02] <ikonia> but something on the official wiki would stop a lot of questions
[12:03] <ikonia> would stop a lot of the "proabably" questions/statements
[12:03] <popey> I dont think such a page exists
[12:03] <ikonia> even if you spell it rirght
[12:03] <ikonia> popey: exactly, it would be cool to get one
[12:03] <ikonia> get solid factual information and share it
[12:03] <popey> if it did, it would probably be a copy/paste of those two blog posts
[12:03] <popey> which are factual
[12:04] <ikonia> I didn't see anything skimming about about which resources it will read/submit to and how/when it submits
[12:04] <ikonia> let me have a proper look
[12:05] <popey> if you have a list of questions I can probably (at low priority) find answers to them and we can put that on the wiki
[12:05] <ikonia> Marks blog seems a little dated
[12:05] <ikonia> maybe we can write something a bit better than that using it as a base
[12:05] <popey> well the feature hasn't been touched since then
[12:05] <popey> so it's not like there's "newer" info about it
[12:06] <ikonia> popey: dead easy, what external resources are searched/have data submitted to them, and what triggers the search/submission, how is the data submitted
[12:06] <popey> (other than disabling amazon IMO)
[12:06] <ikonia> if we could get factual info on that that is current I'd be happy to write it up
[12:06] <ikonia> and use Jono and Marks blog to fill it out too
[12:07] <ikonia> the questions aren't as frequent as they used to be but when they are asked there is a lot of "shouldn't do" or "I don't think so" type responses
[12:07] <ikonia> so if we could get something solid and re-word the factoid as youv'e suggested that would be a solid update
[12:07] <popey> lets start an etherpad to work on it http://pad.ubuntu.com/UnityDashSearchFAQ
[12:07] <ikonia> excellent
[12:40] <ikonia> popey: I'll start writing up a skel doc based on the pad
[12:40] <ikonia> will that stay open until you close the pad
[12:50] <popey> great
[12:50] <popey> ikonia: it'll stay open till someone deletes it
[12:51] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-offtopic meek_geek constantly trying to bring women/sexual content into non-relevent conversations
[12:51] <ikonia> popey: super thanks
[13:49] <popey> ikonia: I think I'm done with that etherpad, lemme know if you need more input
[13:50] <ikonia> popey: let me have a read (not looked for a while)
[13:50] <ikonia> popey: either way it's enough to keep me busy for a good few hours
[13:51] <popey> hehe
[13:51] <rww> popey: "i thought it was changed recently when the irc council did a sweep of them" => my understanding is that the IRC Team sweep of factoids was of non-technical factoids (e.g. "here's how to ask a question" and such), so that would be why it was missed :)
[13:52] <rww> there would definitely be some merit to us pondering technical factoids too, but since there are so many of them I think we might just end up fixing them as we see them (like now)
[16:20] <genii> ikonia: I just got back to the computer and caught a "coffee" highlight in #u then had to go read all the backlog
[16:20] <ikonia> people are just rude
[16:21] <genii> Yes, unfortunately... so many uncivil types around.
[16:33] <SamwiseGamgee> I sent two letters to the ubuntu irc council today.
[16:33] <SamwiseGamgee> thank you
[17:05] <DJones> Is it worth still keeping #ubuntu-discuss open? Its not used apart from by what seems a mistake, I know the reasons behind the channel, but it doesn't seem to be used or known about (and we're not going to change the perceptions of Ubuntu users), maybe it needs to be forwarded to #u-ot
[17:07] <DJones> Out the registered ops on the channel, it appears I'm the only one still active, Jussi01, Ubuntu council, lyz and Jordan_u and every Ubuntu member
[17:08] <DJones> Jussi, jordan_u and lyz appear to MIA
[17:09] <DJones> If I'm left as the sole active "op" for the channel, then please can the IRCC change the channel flags to forward to -ot or other channel as they feel necessary
[17:11] <DJones> Hmmh http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/ubuntu-mate-remix-course-become-official-flavour
[17:13] <DJones> And yes popey has #ubuntu-mate registered
[17:30] <OerHeks> hi foxynna is spamming in PM in #ubuntu.
[17:53] <genii> @comment 63652 Spamming in PM
[17:53] <OerHeks> i think my message is not read ..
[19:02] <elky> i thought discuss was going to get traffic piped from dead discussion channels, eg, -marketing, -art, etc. and then build on that
[19:54] <bazhang> heads up on gatis
 i hate linux pinux. how can anyone use this crap
[20:22] <ikonia> jussi has changed countries and made a massive move, so I suspect it will take a while for him to get back on his feet
[20:32] <genii> I miss him.
[21:42] <k1l_> the shutdown of 12.10 repos does bring up way more user that still use 12.10 than i thought
[21:47] <genii> k1l_: I find the same thing every time a release goes EOL. People tend to install whatever version is current between LTS then just not do-release-upgrade until apt complains the repos are gone
[21:48] <k1l_> i think for 12.10 is a different case since it was the last gnome2 one, iirc
[21:48] <genii> Hm, good point.
[21:48] <valorie> well, now they'll have mate
[21:49]  * valorie likes the latest, as long as it doesn't crash too often
[22:27] <Mamarok> why did that guy call for ops?
[22:28] <Mamarok> it's slightly offtopic, but nothing serious AFAICT
[22:30] <Mamarok> erm, valorie, I am an op as well...
[22:30] <valorie> of course!
[22:30] <Mamarok> you are telling the exact same thing I already did
[22:31] <valorie> he seemed a bit hard-of-hearing
[22:32] <Mamarok> well, I don't see anywhere in the history where wizard did tell him he was offtopic, he just called the ops several times, not really helpful, that
[22:32] <valorie> I very much agree
[22:33] <valorie> calling the ops without even telling a reason is not helpful
[22:33]  * valorie goes off to run
[22:39] <SelenaG> !ops | repent or perish
[22:39] <SelenaG> !staff
[22:40] <SelenaG> !ops
[22:43] <SelenaG> !ops
[22:43] <SelenaG> !ops
[22:44] <Mamarok> not the brightest of the lot as it seems...
[22:44] <SelenaG> -_-\
[22:44] <SelenaG> !ops
[22:52] <IdleOne> ubottu: ignore<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:03] <phunyguy> our buddy is back
[23:28] <Flannel> valorie: I'm sure someone's already mentioned it, but looks like you're soliciting a whole bunch of people to move in to your neighborhood ;)
[23:35] <phunyguy> I am not sure gnome2 was in 12.10.... I thought that was 11.04 or 11.10....
[23:35] <phunyguy> and unity started in that timeframe as default...
[23:37] <phunyguy> k1l: you would time out as soon as I mention something about something you said.... :P
[23:38] <phunyguy> k1l: [19:35:36] <phunyguy> I am not sure gnome2 was in 12.10.... I thought that was 11.04 or 11.10....  [19:35:55] <phunyguy> and unity started in that timeframe as default...
[23:40] <valorie> Flannel: what?
[23:41] <Flannel> valorie: You (well, an app on your phone, or whatever) sent an invitation email to loco-contacts and irc-team
[23:41] <valorie> omg
[23:41] <Flannel> (and probably other lists too) I'm glad you think we should move in next door, but doubt we'd all fit :)
[23:42] <phunyguy> lol
[23:42] <valorie> actually, I was in the process of elimating all
[23:42] <valorie> but I guess I will just cancel the effing thing
[23:42] <valorie> such language is not compatable with the community standards
[23:56] <IdleOne> I guess you don't like me enough to be your neighbor
[23:56] <IdleOne> :(
[23:57] <valorie> IdleOne: I would invite you only if you were my neighbor!
[23:57] <valorie> it feels bad being a spammer
[23:58] <IdleOne> it happens
[23:58] <valorie> damn it
[23:58] <IdleOne> could have been way worse
[23:58] <valorie> well, thousands of email addresses, probably over 100 lists
[23:58] <valorie> gah
[23:58] <IdleOne> I mean the content
[23:58] <valorie> sure
[23:59] <valorie> ah, dinner time
[23:59] <valorie> that might make me feel better
[23:59] <valorie> later


[00:41] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca_, hi, there's this one link on the website for kubuntu screenshot tour which still links to 9.04 tour, so can you point me to where I can find the source of that page and update the link, this will have to be taken care for 9.10 and lucid as well
[00:43] <ryanakca_> dhillon-v10: Do you have access to the drupal admin interface?
[00:43] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca_, don't know should I :)
[00:44] <Riddell> ryanakca: feel free to give him the details if you trust him
[00:44] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, there's a little bug, let me give you the link in a sec.
[00:45]  * ryanakca doesn't remember talking to dhillon-v10 before, but I've seen him around... If anybody can vouch for him, I'll give him the details
[00:45] <Riddell> dhillon-v10: do we trust you?
[00:45]  * maco snorts
[00:45] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, depends on you, I never break anyone's trust so :) i'll be responsible
[00:46] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, nixternal can
[00:46] <Riddell> wheesht maco, this is a failsafe security method
[00:46] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, ping
[00:46] <maco> "wheesht"?
[00:46] <freinhard> how do i get rid of that? "pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libopensync1-dev which is a virtual package."
[00:47] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, you can ask nixternal, I have been working with him for a while now, let me pm him
[00:47] <ryanakca> maco: According to the Urban Dictionary: buy wheesht mugs, tshirts and magnets
[00:47] <ryanakca> (Verb, Scottish slang) Quiet.
[00:47] <ryanakca> oops, ignore the buy blurb
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> freinhard: that means that the package doesn't exist
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> maybe you want libopensync-dev?
[00:48] <crimsun> this is a new source + binary, no?
[00:48] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, can we wait for sometime until nixternal responds
[00:48] <freinhard> no, i dont, i want libopensync1-dev, that's in my ppa
[00:48] <maco> ryanakca: thanks
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> you'd have to add the ppa to the pbuilder (sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login, then edit the sources.list)
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> then "pbuilder update" if you don't have a hook that does pbuilder update each build
[00:50] <freinhard> JontheEchidna: i added it with --othermirror, and /etc/pbuilder/apt.config is a symlink to /etc/apt so pbuilder should use any repository my system uses?
[00:50] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: Sure
[00:50] <maco> note that "edit the sources.list" means "make sure you know how to use echo and | to add things to sources.list
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> freinhard: dunno, I've never tried a method like that. But one would assume that it's not working :P
[00:51] <freinhard> JontheEchidna: is there any editor in base.tgz?
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> Not that I can recall
[00:52] <crimsun> there should be.
[00:52] <freinhard> i can edit the files from outside
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> true
[00:52] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, have a look here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/494214 since the website is going to get a whole new look, can we just close this one or should I leave it alone
[00:53] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: I would mark it in progress saying that we'll have a whole new look in the near future
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> yay, tags are working again with 4.3.90
[01:01]  * ryanakca sighs at one of his HDs dying
[01:02] <freinhard> JontheEchidna: works, thx!
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> no prob
[01:05] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, my apologies for the delay, here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/481294
[01:08] <freinhard> got a file that get's installed by default to usr/etc/foo, how do i get it to be installed to etc/foo ?
[01:08] <freinhard> can .install do some magic?
[01:09] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, my apologies for bothering you, I know you are pretty busy, but have a look here: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kubuntu.org and this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/472928
[01:12] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: No worries. Yes, that will be fixed shortly, the fixes / front page content on http://drupal.ryanak.ca will be transfered to www.kubuntu.org
[03:52] <pykler> I just updated to 4.4 using the ppa and my systemray doesnt show many of the icons :s
[03:52] <pykler> is anybody else having this issue, or should i clear my 4.3 config, and if i should, how do i only clear the plasma config
[03:55] <pykler> tis any1 here
[03:56] <jjesse> kinda
[03:57] <pykler> anyone know what happened to the desktop switcher in kde 4.4
[03:57] <pykler> its not in my applet list
[03:57] <pykler> i really like 4.4 but man i hate that i upgraded
[03:59] <pykler> is there a better channel to go to
[04:00] <jjesse> is konqueroror removed from kde4.4 ?
[04:01] <pykler> lol, when i do help about it still says 4.3.85 (KDE 4.4 Beta 2)
[04:01] <pykler> i have konqy but i do not have an answer to ur q
[04:03] <pykler> someone help!!!111
[04:08] <shtylman> neversfelde: :) thx
[04:42] <nixternal> we got another foot of snow, and I have to drag the garbage from the back to the front, and there is anywhere between 2 and 3 feet of snow in the route :/
[05:13] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, hey I fixed that bug, and when you go to the admin interface, you will a comment that has the link to the bug, now I going to work on some other outdated links that were there
[08:28] <ghostcube> ehlo humans :)
[08:35] <jussi01> Riddell: I seem to have an extra "m" on planet, is this a typo?
[08:50] <fabo> Riddell: I've done the tarball from svn. I guess Jos forget to release it.
[10:12] <ulysses__> morning
[10:38] <freeflying> Riddell: are you going to upload qt before alpha2?
[10:39] <Riddell> freeflying: should I?
[10:39] <Riddell> what's needed?
[10:40] <freeflying> Riddell: I added two patch for bold style fonts
[10:40] <Riddell> ah yes, ok I can upload that
[10:40] <freeflying> Riddell: thanks
[10:45] <Quintasan|Szel> o/
[11:35] <ghostcube> http://www.usbgeek.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=0356   for all of you coding outside the walls :D
[11:41] <ulysses__> Riddell: have you uploaded the debdiffs for karmic-backports?
[11:42] <Riddell> ulysses__: no still working on qt and kdegames currently, but it's high on my list of many things to upload today
[11:50] <ulysses__> Can I assign bug 503070 to me, and set status in progress?
[11:50] <Riddell> ulysses__: sure
[12:12] <freinhard> how can i figure out why a orig.tar.gz does not show up in the changes file?
[12:13] <freinhard> dpkg-genchanges sais it doesn't add the orig archive, no idea why
[12:13] <freinhard> i did a "debuild -S"
[12:14] <Riddell> freinhard: you need  debuild -S -sa
[12:15] <Riddell> the -sa makes it appear, otherwise it guesses what to do and usually doesn't include it
[12:15] <freinhard> works, thx!
[13:58] <seele> how many people would you estimate use chokoq?
[14:02] <Riddell> that's a very hard thing to estimate
[14:02] <Riddell> twitter would know how many people post from it but I doubt there's anything public
[14:02] <Riddell> you could try looking at popcon data
[14:03] <jussi01> seele: me!
[14:03] <Riddell> you could try asking identi.ca if they have figures, they're probably more friendly than twitter since ubuntu drives half their traffic
[14:10] <al> http://www.twitstat.com/twitterclientusers.html
[14:11] <al> not sure how accurate those numbers are, seem a little jumpy
[14:21] <jussi01> you know, the details section in kpackagekit is rather pointless... no?
[14:21] <jussi01> or is it just my macine?
[14:22] <jussi01> (I have a nice progress bar that goes from side to side when installing packages)
[14:26] <seele> al: useful, but i was looking for a number of persons. 10 people or 1000 people is more useful than .02% for what i need to do
[14:26] <seele> Riddell: what is popcorn?
[14:27] <al> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
[14:28] <Riddell> seele: package popularity stats for ubuntu
[14:28] <Riddell> can be a bit hard to read and it's only for people who turn it on manually so it's not a great sample
[14:29] <Riddell> but we don't have choqok on the CD so any installs there will be people who actively use it I'd expect
[14:29] <seele> is this all-time or just for karmic?
[14:32] <seele> hmm.. gwibber is like 4x more popular
[14:33] <Riddell> that is installed by default
[14:33] <Riddell> so lots of people will have it installed and not use it
[14:33] <seele> aah
[14:44] <ScottK> Also last time I looked, the ubuntu-desktop to kubuntu-desktop ratio in popcon was ~ 6:1, so if gwibber:choqok is ~4:1, that's actually pretty good.
[14:58] <RiotingPacifist> how long will it take to package 4.4rc1 for the ppa? (like no pressure i'm just looking into an upstream bug and want to know if it's worth me waiting, either way i appreciate all the effort you guys put in)
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> at the moment it's just me working on the karmic packages. 12 hours might be a fair estimate if it stays that way
[15:01] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: sorry you are working by yourself, that's pretty amazing then it will be ready in 12 hours
[15:02] <RiotingPacifist> JontheEchidna:  cool, 12hrs is pretty good thx
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> oh noes, now I just gave myself a deadline :P
[15:03] <jjesse> haha no pressure from me :)
[15:04] <Riddell> ulysses__: your launchpad karma is about to get a boost
[15:04] <RiotingPacifist> it's cool with any luck i'm going to be drunk in 12hrs time so will do the reporting tomorow
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[15:04] <ulysses__> Riddell: due to the translations
[15:05] <Riddell> yes
[15:18] <tsimpson> zegenie: it'll be ready when it's ready :)
[15:18] <zegenie> :P
[15:42] <ScottK> Riddell and JontheEchidna: kees said he'd accept libssh in Main if the test suite were enabled at build time.  I fiddled with it last night and couldn't seem to come up with the right CDBS magic.  Could one of you have a look?
[15:44] <Riddell> ok
[15:46] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:12] <Riddell> ScottK: did you get this test suite to compile?  I'm unconvinced it does
[16:14] <Riddell> SSH_OPTIONS is undeclaired
[16:15] <ScottK> Riddell: I did not.
[16:51] <jussi01> can anyone tell me a command for putting a firefox shortcut to the desktop? (ive ssh to a machine and Ive got to fix it for my inlaws...)
[16:52] <Riddell> cp /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop ~/Desktop
[16:54] <jussi01> Riddell: thank you... I probably should have known that... :D
[16:55] <Daskreech> where ~ is ~inlaws/Desktop
[16:56] <jussi01> Daskreech: hehe
[16:58]  * Daskreech goes to see where Rc1 is
[16:59] <ScottK> kde4libs built, so we are on our way ....
[17:07] <jussi01> ScottK: does that hit the beta ppa? or is there an RC ppa also?
[17:08]  * jussi01 turns the sarcasm off...
[17:11] <mcas> does anyone know were jwisser is
[17:12] <jussi01> mcas: nickserv tells me that nick is not registered...
[17:12] <mcas> thx
[18:50] <ScottK> Riddell: Reply in the libssh MIR bug says it's not an actual test suite.
[19:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna and Riddell: libssh MIR approved
[19:14] <ScottK> Which packcage(s) need update for that?
[19:14] <JontheEchidna> just runtime
[19:15] <maco> hrmph. thats silly.  any of you seen kmail sort mail into the "unknown" date when it clearly shows the date of the email right next to the subject?
[19:15] <ScottK> We don't want to upload it until the existing ones have a chance to build as it will depwait on libssh and they'll be a build for superceded source.
[19:15] <ScottK> maco: Yes.
[19:16] <maco> ScottK: know if a bug's been filed?
[19:16] <ScottK> No.
[19:16] <ScottK> It happens when stuff is still 'this week' but is also 'last month' or something.
[19:20] <ScottK> Riddell: Doesn't the attica source need promotion to Main?
[19:37] <genii> For the interested, Chuvalo's interview is playing right now on thatchannel
[19:37] <genii> oops, wrong chan, sorry
[19:52] <genii> Why doesn't npviewer.bin have a taskbar entry? Also why doesn't it auto focus, have to alt-tab to it after maximizing a video... I know, I should be bugging Adobe about it and not here, probably
[20:20] <ScottK> NCommander: Looks like Ross is hung.  Any chance you can get someone to give it a good hard kick.
[21:14] <sistpoty> Riddell: around? I think I just found a bug in kdelibs with a kubuntu patch, as ScottK pointed me to investigate the klamav build failure
[21:15] <sheytan> HI, i've got a kubuntu web page mockup. Who's the related person of kubuntu's web page? D:
[21:15] <sistpoty> (but I don't dare to upload kdelibs myself though :P)
[21:16] <Nightrose> sheytan: you want ryanakca
[21:16] <sheytan> Nightrose: Ok, thanks :D Wann see it? :D
[21:16] <Nightrose> already seen it on identi.ca ;-)
[21:16] <Nightrose> looks nice
[21:17] <sistpoty> Riddell: the problem seems to be that kubuntu_62_flash_installer.diff adds a new source file, and also a patch to reference the symbols therein
[21:17] <sheytan> Good, thanks  :D
[21:18] <sistpoty> Riddell: however no patch actually updates the Makefile.in's so that the new knsplugininstaller.cpp is actually compiled
[21:34] <ScottK> sistpoty: What's up?
[21:34] <ScottK> sistpoty: Nice.
[21:35] <sistpoty> ;)
[21:35] <ScottK> sistpoty: So drop the patch?  We certainly don't need a KDE3 flash installer anymore.
[21:35] <sistpoty> ScottK: could imo work as well, or just rerun autotools after all patches are applied
[21:36] <DarkwingDuck> Yay! Desktop back online
[21:36] <genii> DarkwingDuck: kdm/hal thing fixed?
[21:36] <sistpoty> ScottK: however dropping the patch entirely might be an abi breakage, in case earlier kdelibs versions did in fact provide the new symbols
[21:36] <DarkwingDuck> I just patched a computer back together
[21:36] <ScottK> Sigh.
[21:37] <DarkwingDuck> genii: Not sure, netbook went out when the kid dumped water on it
[21:37] <sistpoty> (no clue about libkhtml rdepends)
[21:37] <genii> Aaah, OK. <goes back to sudo start kdmhttp://www.cygwin.com/>
[21:37] <genii> Bleh touchpad
[21:38] <sistpoty> ScottK: I believe it should be safe to drop the patch afaik, as it looks that only kdelibs itself refers to the added symbols... however that's an unsafe assumption
[21:39] <ScottK> sistpoty: I suspect that function has been broken for some time (for a variety of reasons), so I think removing it and than dealing with rdepends if they show up is the best answer.
[21:39] <ScottK> Since it's a distro specific patch, in theory no upstream would rely on it.
[21:40] <ScottK> I know none of our distro specific stuff does anymore.
[21:40] <sistpoty> ScottK: whatever you think is best... I lack experience with the kde stack to come to a conclusion
[21:40]  * ScottK will give Riddell a little bit to disgree and if he doesn't, I'll upload it.
[21:41] <sistpoty> (and if it's true that only kdelibs itself refers to the added symbols the abi breakage is imho ok to be done)
[21:41] <Riddell> ScottK: hmm?
[21:41] <ScottK> Riddell: Any reason not to drop the flash installer from kdelibs?
[21:42] <Riddell> kde 3?
[21:42] <ScottK> Yes
[21:42] <Riddell> that can go for sure
[21:42] <ScottK> There we go.
[21:43] <ScottK> sistpoty: Thanks for looking into it.
[21:43] <sistpoty> ScottK: no problem... watch out for dpkg-shlibdeps warnings in the build log though, not that my theory is entirely wrong ;)
[21:43] <ScottK> Will do.
[22:03] <Zorael> Once ready, will RC1 hit the ppas for Karmic? (Just asking so I don't give bad advice out of ignorance.)
[22:03] <Riddell> it'll go in the beta PPA
[22:03] <Zorael> Great, thanks.
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: http://pastebin.ca/1743260
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> give hugs to aseigo, he fixed the startup crash
[22:12] <JontheEchidna> oh, we do seem to be adding the systray twice in the default layout patch
[22:12] <ScottK> Probably not good
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> that's probably what was exposing the bug
[22:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: what was the fix?
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> kde rev 1071841
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I also discussed using scripted layouts with aseigo, seems that they're totally supported :)
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> well, totally recommended
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> they obviously won't support bad scripts :P
[22:19] <Quintasan> Urgh, I just need to endure this hell in school for next week and I'm free (almost).
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> looks like we can just have a script that adds our extra applets to the layout
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> alpha 3 is next week?
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> s/3/2
[22:23] <ulysses__> 14th january
[22:24] <ulysses__> so next week, yes:P
[22:26] <shtylman> Riddell: if kde doesn't include the new kdm theme with 4.4 should we look into doing so?
[22:26] <Riddell> shtylman: yeah can do, preferably with pinheiro's blessing
[22:27] <shtylman> k... pinheiro does like it btw
[22:27] <Riddell> shtylman: but I think it can still go into KDE, release-team probably don't have an opinion, it's up to the oxygen team
[22:27] <shtylman> he suggested I straighten the K, but I think I can convince him of my ways :)
[22:28] <shtylman> ahh ok... as was explained to me by pinheiro was that because it is feature freeze it can't go in now
[22:28] <shtylman> so I emailed kde-core-devel
[22:28] <Riddell> maybe, I don't remember the rules for art freeze
[22:28] <shtylman> for clarification
[22:28] <shtylman> k
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> ugh, kdebase-workspace isn't finding regular libpolkit-qt
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> even though libpolkit-qt-dev is installed
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> oh, karmic might need the new release come to think of it
[22:30] <Tscheesy> we wanted to release a News about digiKam at -de.org - for how long is digiKam1.0.0 available in Backports now?
[22:30]  * JontheEchidna decides to worry about backports after dinner
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> Tscheesy: about a week
[22:31] <Tscheesy> thx
[23:33]  * shtylman thinks this weekend I will make a screensaver similar to: http://www.ilounge.com/images/uploads/photo-flip-clock-1.jpg
[23:35]  * JontheEchidna notes that there's a plasmoid flip clock in playground
[23:36] <shtylman> oooo
[23:36] <shtylman> did not know that :)
[23:36] <shtylman> makes me happy
[23:36] <shtylman> I will take a look at that
[23:36] <shtylman> it would be a cool screensaver
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> and hey, you can have plasmoids on the screensaver
[23:57] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[23:58] <Riddell> evening _Groo_
[23:58] <_Groo_> Riddell: hey riddell
[23:59] <_Groo_> Riddell: i confirmed that fancy plasmoid is broken with kde 4.4 rc1... well have to wait
[23:59] <_Groo_> Riddell: pitty cause im used to it :P
[23:59] <_Groo_> Riddell: ive seen you guys started uploading rc1 to lucid


[01:59] <jamin> found a few regressions with xfce between 12.04 and 12.10
[02:00] <jamin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1066637
[02:00] <jamin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1066591
[02:01] <micahg> jamin: works for me
[02:01]  * micahg gets sftp URL
[02:02] <jamin> micahg, which using an ssh:// url in thunar 1.4.0?
[02:02] <micahg> yep
[02:02] <micahg> 1.4.0-1ubuntu2
[02:02] <jamin> same version
[02:02] <jamin> doesn't allow the ssh:// urls any more... only sftp:// urls
[02:02] <micahg> jamin: do you have gvfs installed?
[02:03] <jamin> yes, 1.14.0-0ubuntu6
[02:03] <micahg> mr_pouit: ^^ any ideas?
[02:04] <micahg> jamin: he might not be around at this hour, so you might have to wait until morning for a response
[02:04] <jamin> can open them fine with gigolo which will translate them over to sftp or can manually specify sftp, but have been used to using ssh://
[02:04] <micahg> as I said, wfm
[02:04] <jamin> any idea on the icons?
[02:06] <micahg> no, no idea, I'm not so familiar with the Xfce internals, just the packaging to some extent
[02:11] <jamin> also the indicator-messages-service doesn't seem to be running... was under 12.04, still digging into why as it is still installed
[02:11] <Unit193> micahg: Can you hold enough packages on upgrade to keep them? :P
[02:12] <micahg> yeah, we had to drop it since the messaging API was broken in quantal and we had no one to port a GTK2 version, we probably won't get it back until we get a GTK3 panel
[02:12] <micahg> Unit193: I have tiny hands
[02:12] <Unit193> Hah, good answer.
[02:12] <jamin> micahg, oh, so it's known to be broken?
[02:12] <micahg> jamin: yeah, we removed it
[02:13] <jamin> =( one of the few things I liked from mainline
[02:14] <micahg> yeah, it's missed by many
[02:14] <jamin> lastly (for now) the battery indicator doesn't seem to change state properly... that is if you're on AC and switch to battery it still indicates (both visibly and via tooltip) that you're on AC
[02:14]  * micahg is hoping for a GTK3 panel by 13.04, but we're not sure it'll happen
[02:14] <jamin> if you open Power Information from the pop up menu, the icon state changes properly
[02:15] <micahg> jamin: sounds like a bug, please file it (xfce4-power-manager)
[02:18] <jamin> filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1066645
[02:19] <Unit193> +y
[02:19] <micahg> as my battery is dead on my quantal machine, I can't test that ATM
[02:47] <Unit193> For the record, doing the mini+xubuntu-desktop
[07:25] <knome> skaet, ouch, right. i'll update that at latest when i get home
[09:43] <ochosi> do any of you folks have a real-install?
[09:43] <ochosi> (of 12.10 i mean of course)
[09:44] <ochosi> background: i wanted to check whether bug #1050551 is valid for 12.10 as well, but the capslock thing in vbox doesn't work as expected
[14:35] <GridCube> its there any job i could do to help before release day?
[14:35] <smartboyhw> GridCube, test the RC ISOs I believe:D
[14:35] <GridCube> :) ok will zsync them today then
[14:37] <GridCube> in the topic of the FAQ i've started it but im trully unable to move foward with it, i dont know the answer to the few questions there is and i cant pinpoint ones to add up
[14:37] <GridCube> it seems too disperse around
[14:38] <GridCube> maybe we'll have to wait a few weeks and see what questions the new release brings to the community
[14:38] <smartboyhw> :D
[19:50] <Unit193> Anyone doing a fresh install today?  I need a listing from a new install ( dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\n' | sort -nr | tee dpkg-query-xubuntu-full )


[00:11] <mup> PR snapcraft#2070 closed: extractors: support for setup.py <enhancement> <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2070>
[00:56] <mup> PR snapcraft#2072 closed:  lifecycle: handle missing version correctly  <bug> <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2072>
[01:23] <jjohansen> zyga, mvo: I've got a fix, and a test kernel building
[05:18] <zyga> jjohansen: awesome
[05:25] <zyga> jjohansen: I will check your tree
[05:42] <jjohansen> zyga: I pushed it to http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jj/ubuntu-artful.git/log/?h=lp1750594
[05:42] <zyga> Looking
[05:43] <jjohansen> I need to do a larger fix for the other error paths, but those can go separately
[05:43] <zyga> Ha, it would take me a week to find this
[05:43] <zyga> Thank you again
[05:43] <zyga> Can we this still go into 4.17?
[05:44] <jjohansen> maybe, we are past kernel freeze, but. There is still some room for critical patches
[05:44] <jjohansen> I would poke leann
[05:45] <jjohansen> even if it doesn't make the release kernel it could go into the first fix kernel which is usually released on release day
[05:46] <jjohansen> zyga: to be clear I will poke leann, but you should too, if this is to have a chance to go in
[05:46] <jjohansen> she won't be around until monday morning
[05:46] <zyga> Ack, I will do so as well
[05:47] <zyga> Is this a clear bug? What is a the chance that the fix may cause more issues?
[05:47] <jjohansen> I will also poke sforshee and let him know we want it in if possible, that way he can prep
[05:47] <jjohansen> it is a clear bug
[05:47] <zyga> Ok
[05:47] <jjohansen> the fix won't cause issues, that is part of the reason I didn't make a larger change to the error paths that will do the same leak
[05:48] <zyga> I will update the forum and talk to leann on Monday
[05:53] <jjohansen> zyga: I have sent to the kt list, and sforshee, and fed him additional info
[05:54] <jjohansen> so all that is us contacting Leann on monday
[05:55] <zyga> Thank you
[05:59] <jjohansen> np. And thanks for all your work in chasing this down, it really helped
[06:24] <mup> PR snapd#5043 closed: many: add "stop-mode: sig{term,hup,usr[12]}{,-all}" instead of conflating that with refresh-mode <Critical> <Squash-merge> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5043>
[08:49] <zyga> jjohansen: woot, thank you, I really enjoyed that :)
[08:58] <mup> PR snapcraft#2073 closed: meta: validate extracted and scriptlet metadata <bug> <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2073>
[10:26] <pbek> I wonder if there is a way to write to a nfs mount from a snap, I can't find an interfaces to allow that
[10:31] <mup> Issue snapcraft#1697 closed: Documentation for sources of information extraction <Created by sergiusens> <Closed by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/issue/1697>
[11:28] <mup> PR snapcraft#2056 closed: Fix formatting of some store errors <bug> <Created by cjwatson> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2056>
[12:32] <mup> PR snapcraft#2074 opened: Release changelog for 2.41 <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2074>
[14:58] <zyga> pbek: hey
[14:59] <zyga> NFS should work transparently now but it needs to be in a location that is otherwise allowed (eg home)
[15:14] <mup> PR snapcraft#2075 opened: errors: skip the sentry test if raven is no installed <bug> <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2075>
[15:23] <r04r> how can i locally overwrite files in a snap?
[15:24] <r04r> say i install some software using snapd, and i want to change a line of code in one of its scripts. how?
[15:24] <r04r> everything is readonly for some reason
[15:37] <thresh> is there a way to mark a package not to be installed in the stage-packages phase?
[15:38] <zyga> r04r: you can unpack the squashfs, change anything you like and then install your own version instead
[15:39] <r04r> zyga: any pointers to documentation regarding this? i have no idea where to start
[15:39] <zyga> But doing so will disable updates since now you are the developer
[15:39] <r04r> yeah understandable and fine with me
[15:39] <zyga> Use unsquashfs on the snap file in /bar/lib/snapd/snaps
[15:39] <r04r> the goal would be to try and upstream the changes anyway
[15:39] <zyga> Then “snap pack” to repack
[15:40] <zyga> Then “snap install” with the new file you get
[15:40] <r04r> ah cool
[15:40] <r04r> thanks
[15:41] <zyga> Good luck
[15:41] <zyga> You can also “snap try” I’m unpacked tree
[15:41] <zyga> See snap try —help
[15:41] <r04r> i keep getting google results about snapchat lol
[15:42] <zyga> do you know about forum.snapcraft.io
[15:42] <r04r> yeah, i just have a (possibly bad) habit of googling first
[15:42] <zyga> No worries, try asking on the forum if you get stuck
[15:43] <zyga> IRC is emptier on weekends
[15:43] <r04r> yeah, thanks though. i had been sitting on this question for a while actually, but only just now thought to look into it a bit more. so time is not of the essence :)
[15:44] <zyga> Snaps are read only filesystems
[15:44] <zyga> That is why you could not modify anything
[15:47] <r04r> makes sense, this was my first time playing with snap
[16:07]  * Pharaoh_Atem waves
[16:07] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: zygoonix?
[16:08] <Pharaoh_Atem> or are we calling it something different now :P
[16:10] <zyga> I have an idea for something else
[16:10] <Pharaoh_Atem> oh?
[16:12] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: what is it?
[16:59] <zyga> I’m afk, walking home
[16:59] <zyga> Still many km left
[17:48] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: I'm back
[17:48]  * zyga is somewhat tired
[17:48] <zyga> but that's perfect for evening hacking from the couch
[17:48] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: so the idea is super silly
[17:49] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: we have ubuntu orange, we have red hats and fedoras. We could mix the colours and make a nice tie :)
[17:50] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: so "{violet,lilac,lavender,mauve} tie"
[17:51] <Pharaoh_Atem> :D
[17:51] <zyga> it could have a clean and simple icon made out of three thriangles
[17:51] <zyga> triangles*
[17:51] <Pharaoh_Atem> neat
[17:51] <zyga> ><==> (sideways, wish)
[17:51] <zyga> ish*
[17:51] <zyga> I'm in line to take the shower but after that I'll see what I can get
[17:52] <zyga> that is, if I can make a mini fedora derivative
[17:52] <zyga> and snap it :)
[17:54] <Pharaoh_Atem> :)
[17:54] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: as a native speaker, is there a nice way to say "violet tie" just more fancy/funny
[17:56] <Pharaoh_Atem> I don't know of many
[17:56] <Pharaoh_Atem> specific kinds of ties maybe...?
[17:56] <zyga> if you think of something better we can just tweak it
[17:57] <zyga> I'm the last person that would know that there are various kinds of ties :)
[17:57] <zyga> anyway, it's just a joke/prank name :)
[17:59] <Pharaoh_Atem> hmm
[17:59] <Pharaoh_Atem> ascot would work
[17:59] <Pharaoh_Atem> it has a double meaning (a type of cap, and a type of cravat/scarf)
[18:00] <mup> PR snapcraft#2076 opened: patches: improve ctypes patch for python 3.5 <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2076>
[18:00] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: another option is cravat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravat
[18:01] <Pharaoh_Atem> ascot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_tie & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_cap )
[18:08] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: cravat is nice, it's also something that's used in polish
[18:09] <Pharaoh_Atem> does it also mean a necktie?
[18:09] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: though on second thought tie is interesting too
[18:09] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: tie as in "it's a tie"
[18:09] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: but also something that "ties things together"
[18:09] <Pharaoh_Atem> mmm
[18:09] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: I'm next in line for the shower, after that I'm hacking
[20:46] <mup> PR snapcraft#2077 opened: python plugin: do not invoke wheel install if empty <bug> <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2077>
[22:54] <mwhudson> wtb new snapcraft in bionic


[07:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Publishing packages
[07:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Publish failed: Bad merges (artful/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas). Packaging diff requires ACK (artful/unity, artful/unity-settings-daemon)
[07:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Publishing packages
[07:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Publish failed: Bad merges
[07:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Publishing packages
[08:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 UNAPPROVED queue
[12:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- coreycb, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2976 QA Signoff: Approved
[12:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2970 UNAPPROVED queue
[12:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- coreycb, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2976 QA Signoff:
[13:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2977 Preparing packages
[14:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2970 REJECTED queue
[18:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Preparing packages
[19:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2967 Successfully built (artful/unity). UNAPPROVED queue (artful/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, artful/unity-settings-daemon)