[06:46] <njh> trying to get a marblemouse working on intrepid (upgraded from hardy)
[06:46] <njh> two problems
[06:46] <njh> first is the button reassignmentL:
[06:46] <njh> njh@thestral:~/svn/lib2geom$ xinput set-button-map 6 1 8 3 4 5 6 7 2 9
[06:46] <njh> X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
[06:46] <njh>   Major opcode of failed request:  148 (XInputExtension)
[06:46] <njh>   Minor opcode of failed request:  29 (X_SetDeviceButtonMapping)
[06:46] <njh>   Value in failed request:  0xa
[06:46] <njh>   Serial number of failed request:  13
[06:46] <njh>   Current serial number in output stream:  13
[06:47] <njh> the second is that although the scroll button correctly disconnects the cursor movement, it doesn't generate any scroll events
[06:47] <njh> here's my props:
[06:47] <njh> Device 'Logitech USB Trackball':
[06:47] <njh> 	Device Enabled:		1
[06:47] <njh> 	Middle Button Emulation:		1
[06:47] <njh> 	Middle Button Timeout:		50
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation Inertia:		10
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation:		1
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation X Axis:		6, 7
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation Y Axis:		4, 5
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation Timeout:		200
[06:47] <njh> 	Wheel Emulation Button:		9
[06:47] <njh> 	Drag Lock Buttons:		0
[06:47] <njh> these settings work on intrepid from scratch
[06:48] <wgrant> njh: Please don't flood. The xinput problem is probably caused by your failing to understand that it wants a permutation of the buttons.
[06:49] <njh> I gave it permutation of the buttons
[06:49] <wgrant> There are precisely 9 buttons that X knows about?
[06:49] <njh> how would I find out?
[06:49] <njh> as I said, the same settings worked on a different machine
[06:50] <njh> it's hard to debug this when debuging information is scant and the documentation lacking
[06:50] <wgrant> It depends on the mouse, not the machine.
[06:50] <njh> it is the same mouse
[06:50] <njh> I simply unplugged it from one and moved it to the other
[06:50] <wgrant> Are you sure you're giving it the right device ID?
[06:50] <njh> but I'll just try again
[06:50] <njh> yes
[06:52] <njh> yep, it still works
[06:53] <njh> so same mouse, both intrepid, same options
[06:53] <njh> works fine on machine A (installed from CD)
[06:53] <njh> doesn't on machine B (upgrade from vanilla hardy)
[06:53] <wgrant> Same architecture?
[06:54] <wgrant> No input devices in xorg.conf?
[06:54] <njh> both 32 bit x86
[06:54] <njh> all input devices commented out ("commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used")
[06:55] <wgrant> 'xinput list' from both machines.
[06:55] <wgrant> !pastebin
[06:55] <njh> *sniff*  how primitive
[06:56] <wgrant> Hm?
[06:57] <njh> can't copy and paste over remote desktop it seems :(
[07:01] <njh> and now it works
[07:01] <njh> oh well, bug solved
[07:01] <wgrant> Heh.
[07:01] <njh> though I wish I could make the hal thing work
[07:01] <wgrant> What do you mean?
[07:01] <njh> rather than using xinput
[07:02] <wgrant> What isn't working about it?
[07:02] <njh> I followed the instrutions at:
[07:02] <njh> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Logitech_Marblemouse_USB
[07:02] <njh> but the fdi match file doesn't
[07:02] <wgrant> Which bit doesn't work? Just the buttonmapping?
[07:03] <njh> so I just created a new file.fdi with that xml
[07:03] <wgrant> Oh.
[07:03] <wgrant> That would do it.
[07:03] <wgrant> That's not complete.
[07:03]  * wgrant fixes.
[07:04] <wgrant> Add:
[07:04] <wgrant> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
[07:04] <wgrant> <deviceinfo version="0.2"> <device>
[07:04] <wgrant> To the start.
[07:04] <wgrant> And:
[07:04] <wgrant>   </device>

[07:04] <njh> incidently, any reason why that file isn't included in intrepid itself?
[07:04] <wgrant> to the end.
[07:04] <wgrant> Nobody I know has that hardware, and I wasnt sure if that was appropriate for the ubiquitous configuration.
[07:05] <njh> ah, well everyone I mentioned I'd bought it too said they also had one
[07:05] <wgrant> I hadn't heard of it until I tried to fix that page.
[07:05] <njh> does it hurt to have such stuff?
[07:05] <wgrant> Does everybody use the trackball like that?
[07:05] <njh> given that it's 545 bytes
[07:05] <njh> pretty much
[07:06] <njh> it's the way that windows does it
[07:06] <njh> ok, I've updated the fdi file
[07:06] <wgrant> OK.
[07:06] <njh> do I just unplug and replut?
[07:06] <wgrant> That should do it, yes.
[07:06] <njh> nup
[07:06] <njh> where does the errors go?
[07:06] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[07:07] <wgrant> You could check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[07:07] <wgrant> It's possible that you'll need to restart hal (ie. reboot), but I've never had to.
[07:08] <njh> it's finding the mouse, but setting the wrong options
[07:08] <wgrant> Is it setting any of them?
[07:09] <njh> yes, but to the hard defaults
[07:09] <wgrant> You might want to try giving it the full button mapping - that might be why people have said the given fdi file doesn't do that.
[07:09] <njh> it's not setting anything atm
[07:09] <wgrant> Hmmmmm.
[07:09] <njh> should  <merge key="input.x11_options.ButtonMapping" type="string">1 8 3 2 9</merge> be a permutation?
[07:09] <wgrant> I suspect evdev will want it to be, yes.
[07:10] <njh> (and if so, how do I find out the correct number of buttons)
[07:10] <wgrant> mouse worked without it, but I'm not sure about evdev.
[07:10] <njh> hmm
[07:10] <njh> it hasn't set any of the other props though
[07:10] <njh> which suggests that it isn't matching
[07:10] <wgrant> Does lshal see that same product name?
[07:11] <njh> yes
[07:11] <wgrant> OK, you might have to restart hal. But don't do that while X is running.
[07:11] <njh> no
[07:11] <njh> that's bad
[07:12] <njh> I wonder if adding that to the existing preferences file would work
[07:12] <wgrant> It's possible that hal saw the file, noticed that it wasn't a real fdi file, so is now going to ignore it until you restart it.
[07:12] <bryce> wgrant: why not restart hal while X is running?
[07:12] <njh> it buggers everything up
[07:12] <njh> btdt
[07:12] <wgrant> bryce: X has got very very angry with me because of that twice now.
[07:12] <wgrant> X wanders away and dies eventually.
[07:13] <njh> yeah, that
[07:13] <bryce> wgrant: interesting.  I've been doing that without issue, although not recently
[07:13] <bryce> wgrant: is there a bug about that issue?
[07:13] <njh> ok, so deviceinfo tag is once per file?
[07:13] <wgrant> bryce: I didn't think it would count as a bug.
[07:13] <njh> it's a bit bad I think
[07:14] <bryce> wgrant: no?  One of the advertised features of all this hal stuff was that hal changes could be made without having to restart X.
[07:14] <wgrant> njh: deviceinfo is the top-level element, so yes, only one.
[07:14] <wgrant> bryce: I normally don't have to restart hal to make changes to the hal config.
[07:14] <njh> nup
[07:14] <njh> still no go
[07:14] <njh> so it's probably not matching something exactly
[07:14] <njh> I wish it would tell me why not
[07:15] <wgrant> bryce: Let's see what X does if I restart hal now... maybe brb.
[07:15] <njh> a hal reload option might be useful
[07:15] <wgrant> Hm.
[07:15] <wgrant> X survived that time.
[07:15] <wgrant> It doesn't always.
[07:15] <njh> no
[07:16] <njh> it could be a heisenbug
[07:16] <bryce> huh.  well, if either of you run into this issue again, please file a bug on it with the logs / error messages.  That seems like something well worth getting fixed.
[07:16] <njh> restarting hal didn't fix the problem in any case
[07:16] <bryce> troubleshooting input-hotplug issues are hard enough without also having X fall to pieces ;-)
[07:16] <wgrant> bryce: Sure, will do.
[07:17] <njh> yes
[07:17] <wgrant> Yep...
[07:18] <njh> the doco says match key="@blah"
[07:19] <wgrant> njh: Try contains= rather than string=
[07:20] <njh> nup
[07:20] <njh> I wish I knew exactly what steps are required
[07:21] <njh> do I need restart hal after every edit?
[07:21] <wgrant> njh: I don't think so. I can just drop a new file in /etc/hal/fdi/policy, replug the device, and have the new setting in place.
[07:21] <njh> I don't even know if it is reading the file :(
[07:22] <njh> ok
[07:22] <njh> is there something I could put in the file which would prove it is being read?
[07:22] <njh> perhaps a syntax error...
[07:22] <njh> nup, a syntax error does not break it :)
[07:23] <wgrant> I don't know how hal works, sorryu.
[07:23] <wgrant> -u
[07:24] <bryce> I was debugging by diffing lshal output before and after plugging in the device
[07:24] <wgrant> That would work.
[07:27]  * wgrant just read the email on ubuntu-x about the tablet config UI.
[07:27] <wgrant> All of those things look like they should be exposed through XI device props...
[07:27] <tjaalton> morning
[07:27] <njh> >   input.x11_options.ButtonMapping = '1 8 3 2 9'  (string)
[07:28] <njh> it's setting the buttons!
[07:28] <njh> just nothing else
[07:28] <wgrant> Morning tjaalton.
[07:29] <bryce> heya tjaalton
[07:30] <bryce> wgrant: yeah I'm writing a reply to that thread, it would be great to get your input on it as well
[07:31] <njh> I'm wondering whether the x names differ from the xinput names
[07:31] <wgrant> bryce: I think we're going to need one awfully big unified gnome-input-properties...
[07:31] <bryce> wgrant: well my hope is to try to keep the scope of what we do within reason
[07:32] <wgrant> Of course.
[07:35] <njh> ok, I've got it correctly matching the mouse
[07:35] <tjaalton> bryce: I was wondering, should we make it a policy that every change is in git, even the small ones. Then there would be no need to remove the Vcs-* stuff from control files like loïc did, and it would be more clear to the casual committer
[07:35] <wgrant> njh: What needed changing?
[07:35] <njh> <match key="info.product" string="Marble Mouse (4-button)">
[07:35] <wgrant> Ah, so it's a different name.
[07:35] <njh> doesn't actually set the xinput props though
[07:35] <tjaalton> bryce: also, the mail address could probably be changed to ubuntu-x
[07:35] <njh> but lshal sets props being defined
[07:36] <wgrant> If hal sees them and the device has been replugged, X should see them too.
[07:36] <wgrant> But the xinput/hal names won't match.
[07:36] <bryce> tjaalton: to be honest, I find doing things in git to be a real hassle, and makes things take 2-3 times as long as they should
[07:36] <wgrant> I think the old xorg.conf names should die soon and hal should be able to tell the server to set XI props.
[07:37] <njh> hal does not need a restart
[07:37] <njh> ok
[07:37] <tjaalton> bryce: we should probably have a git BOF at UDS then :)
[07:37] <njh> I've been removing the spaces from the prop names
[07:37] <wgrant> bzr!
[07:37] <tjaalton> bzr can't do git
[07:37] <njh> is that bad?
[07:38] <wgrant> njh: xinput properties don't have the same names. You should use fdi files as if they were xorg.conf.
[07:38] <njh> oh
[07:38] <njh> I have no idea what the xorg names are
[07:38] <bryce> I'd be willing to give it a go with bzr
[07:38] <wgrant> njh: The names in the example look good.
[07:38] <wgrant> bzr makes sense, but the problem is that it's not trivial to keep pulling from git.
[07:39] <wgrant> Importing from git is easy, but not continously.
[07:40] <bryce> hm, I've tried doing merges through git a few times, but I found the procedure to be fairly intricate
[07:40] <tjaalton> having stuff in git.d.o allows the debian people to see what we do, and point out potential problems like jcristau does
[07:40] <bryce> for complex things like xserver, xorg, etc. that have a lot of patches and changes to merge, I can accept that it's worth the trouble, but with packages that have fewer changes it seems quicker just to do merges by hand
[07:41] <njh> wgrant, but they don't work :)
[07:41] <njh> so I can now effectively set hal attributes
[07:41] <njh> but I can't work out how to convince myself that X is listening to them
[07:41] <njh> bryce's diff trick is very helpful
[07:41] <njh> add that to your toolbox!
[07:41] <tjaalton> git fetch; git merge debian-unstable, that's not difficult
[07:42] <njh> I find git frustrating
[07:42] <njh> despite mental's badgering, I still find myself using svn
[07:42] <tjaalton> when your own tree is old, you need to git rebase origin/ubuntu first
[07:42] <tjaalton> there's at least one mesa change that is not in git yet
[07:42] <njh> I suspect it's just curmudgeonness
[07:43] <njh> it took me years to switch from cvs :)
[07:43] <njh> at least with git I can use both on the same project
[07:43] <wgrant> git doesn't seem to make sense.
[07:43] <wgrant> bzr is fine.
[07:43] <tjaalton> svn doesn't make sense :)
[07:43] <njh> it must
[07:43] <njh> it was written by god himself
[07:43] <tjaalton> well I find bzr confusing so here we go :)
[07:44] <njh> mental dislikes bzr
[07:45] <njh> nup
[07:45] <njh> those parameters are not being fed through to X
[07:45] <njh> they get as far as hal
[07:46] <bryce> njh, now that he works for canonical and will probably have to use it, it'll be interesting to see if his opinion evolves
[07:46] <njh> actually, he hates it _since_ he started using it at canonical
[07:46] <njh> on the other hand, he has seen the light wrt python :)
[07:46] <wgrant> Who are we talking about?
[07:46]  * njh smugly points out that bryce now uses apt and mental now uses python
[07:47] <njh> wgrant, nobody knows...
[07:47] <bryce> wgrant: njh and mental are two of the guys that founded Inkscape with me
[07:47] <njh> he is known as....
[07:47] <njh> ...mental
[07:47] <wgrant> Ahh.
[07:48] <njh> yes, the triumvirate: the maiden, the mother and the crone
[07:48] <njh> (we're still fighting over who is what)
[07:48] <bryce> njh: fwiw, I'm finally doing python too
[07:48] <njh> bryce, good to hear
[07:49] <njh> glad you've finally seen the light
[07:49] <wgrant> How can one not do Python?
[07:49] <njh> bryce and I used to argue about python vs perl
[07:50] <njh> so, does anyone else have evidence that setting parameters via fdi actually has any effect on xorg?
[07:50] <bryce> wouldn't go so far as seeing light...
[07:50] <njh> because I can make them anything, and nothing changes
[07:50] <wgrant> njh: Yes. I do it all the time.
[07:50] <njh> the data is coming from somewhere else
[07:50] <wgrant> njh: It depends on whether the driver is looking at them or not.
[07:51] <njh> so what is ZAxis?
[07:51] <njh> is it the same as YAxis?
[07:51] <njh> is there an XAxis?
[07:54] <njh> meh, I'm tired
[07:54] <njh> thanks for all your hel[
[07:54] <njh> help
[07:54] <njh> at least I can trust hal works
[07:54] <njh> I just need to connect it to xorg
[07:55] <njh> however, unless you have evidence to the contrary, this page is wrong:
[07:55] <njh> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Logitech_Marblemouse_USB
[07:55] <njh> perhaps you can ask if anyone has actually got it working
[07:57] <njh> looks like people are still having trouble anyway
[07:57] <wgrant> I've seen a few people on ubuntuforums use that fine,.
[07:57]  * njh reads more bugs
[07:57] <njh> really? (does spoke eyebrow thing)
[07:58] <njh> or merely run away
[07:59] <njh> ok, bed time
[07:59] <njh> ttyl
[09:03] <tjaalton> mvo: hey, I've seen a lot of "failed to install/upgrade" errors due to "package foo is already installed and configured". what's causing that?
[09:06] <seb128> I was going to ask that too ;-)
[09:08] <tjaalton> they are all over the place, so it's pretty common I guess..
[09:08] <mvo> tjaalton: do you have a example  bug number for me?
[09:09] <seb128> mvo: bug #296576
[09:09] <tjaalton> mvo: bug 296571 (just happened to look at ghostscript bugs)
[09:09] <tjaalton> plenty of them against the x packages too
[09:09] <mvo> thanks, looking
[09:11] <tjaalton> seb128: heh, appears to be the same reporter
[09:11] <seb128> he likely opened several duplicates
[09:12] <tjaalton> yep
[09:30] <bryce> heya mvo
 hm, so I read reports that compiz does hang on a i945 for intrepid   --- lp#?
 tjaalton: is there someone familiar with intel I could talk to? do we have a contact at intel? I mean, blacklisting i830,845,945 does not leave that many cards that we don't blacklist
 bryce: ^--- ?
[09:32] <mvo> bryce: good monring
[09:32] <mvo> bryce: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/296819
[09:32] <bryce> mvo:  i830/i845 should be considered separate from i945
[09:32] <mvo> bryce: it seems like it is ot affecting all i945 system so it is less servere
[09:33] <mvo> bryce: 830/845 are blacklisted now
[09:33] <mvo> but blacklisting i945 would blakclist half of the laptops out there (and all netbooks ;)
[09:33] <bryce> pre-855 is hardly supported by upstream any longer, so compiz issues on those chips are not terribly high priority (unfortunately IMHO, but seems reality)
[09:33] <bryce> i945 are more recent and more important
[09:34] <mvo> yes, I'm sad about the lack of <855
[09:36] <bryce> from bug reports, I've seen huge variability in i945
[09:36] <bryce> many issues are specific down to the subsystem vendor pci id
[09:41] <bryce> ...so if you blacklist, I'd just ask that you blacklist at the subsystem vendor pci id.  (i.e., the second line from lspci -vvnn)
[09:41] <tjaalton> pitti had the same pci id and works fine
[10:01] <bryce> if two people with the same subsystem vendor pci id have the same problem, then one would have to conclude it's due to some difference other than video card chips.
[10:01] <bryce> anyway, night.
[10:01] <tjaalton> night
[10:01] <mvo> night
[10:02] <seb128> mvo: did you look at this install bug?
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: no, was doing other stuff
[10:03] <mvo> not yet
[10:03] <seb128> ok
[17:52] <superm1> tseliot, not sure if you were aware yet: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_177.82.html
[17:52] <superm1> it's a bug fix release
[17:52] <tseliot> superm1: no, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks
[17:53] <superm1> tseliot, when they are saying mobile GPUs with suspend problem, it's most 9xxx mobile GPUs, and rather annoying :(
[17:54] <tseliot> superm1: ok, I'll request another SRU soon
[17:55] <superm1> tseliot, if you need sponsorship to jaunty, let me know and i can upload it when you've got packaging ready
[17:55] <tseliot> ok ;)
[17:55] <superm1> tseliot, or if you normally use PPA pocket copying, nvm
[17:56] <tseliot> I usually upload the source to my webspace
[20:17] <solarion> will there be any trouble if I buy a HDCP-aware monitor for use with Linux?
[20:26] <tjaalton> solarion: no
[20:28] <solarion> tjaalton: thanks.  I waited and then asked xorg-devel. :)
[20:29] <tjaalton> yeah noticed that afterwards
[20:30] <solarion> :)
[20:30] <solarion> what'd you say are the most important things to consider in an lcd monitor?
[20:30] <solarion> screen size and res are obvious
[20:39] <tjaalton> dont buy the cheapest, and preferably with !TN panel
[20:42] <solarion> why not the cheapest?
[20:44] <tjaalton> there's a reason they are cheap
[20:46] <bryce> brightness is another consideration
[20:46] <bryce> although most lcd's these days are sufficiently bright
[20:46] <solarion> what's a good brightness?
[20:47] <bryce> just make sure it's got a broad range
[20:48] <solarion> tjaalton: I mean, is there usually a specific thing cheap lcd monitors are cheap because of, that's not immediately obvious to the novice?
[20:49] <tjaalton> missing digital input(s), TN panels, bad ergonomics etc
[20:49] <solarion> what digital inputs would be missing?
[20:50] <tjaalton> dvi for instance
[20:51] <solarion> aside from DVI and VGA, what other connectors do you think are important (HDMI is irrelevant to me, I think)
[20:54] <tjaalton> mine has a usb-hub in it which is handy
[20:55]  * solarion ponders
[21:06] <solarion> what is better than a TN panel?
[21:09] <tjaalton> IPS/*VA
[21:09] <tjaalton> eizos are MVA's I think..
[21:33] <solarion> why is tn bad?
[21:48] <tjaalton> the viewing angle and gamut coverage is narrower
[21:48] <solarion> ah
[21:49] <solarion> what's the going price for a good lcd?
[21:49] <tjaalton> but just buy what pleases your eyes and budget :)
[21:49] <solarion> I can buy a second card and 3 monitors for under $600.  :)
[21:49] <solarion> good resolution too
[21:50] <tjaalton> my 24" benq cost around 800EUR, and it's pretty good
[21:50] <solarion> ouch
[21:50] <solarion> that's probably more than the bosses would let me have. :)
[21:50] <tjaalton> yes, you can do a lot of stuff for $600 ;)
[21:52] <tjaalton> hm s/do/get/
[21:54] <solarion> both work.  :)
[21:54] <solarion> thanks for the info
[21:54] <solarion> maybe when I'm a professor I can get a real LCD.
[21:55] <tjaalton> heh, and some time I'll get an eizo for photo management :)
[21:58] <tjaalton> wow, 24" review champ eizo for 500EUR
[22:00] <festr_> hi
[22:01] <festr_> i'm trying to test GEM with 2.6.28-rc4 and xorg/mesa/intel master branches. I'm getting in xorg log (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable
[22:01] <festr_> but 3d works. so i'm wondering this DRI2 issue. any idea?
[22:02] <tjaalton> don't think anyone here has gone that far
[22:02] <tjaalton> besides it's not the master branches you want
[22:02] <festr_> i'm not able to find any info how to check if GEM is actually used if you understand :)
[22:02] <jcristau> there's no dri2 support in intel ddx master
[22:02] <jcristau> so that's expected
[22:03] <festr_> so thats explain it. exist some dri2 branch is it worth of try?
[22:04] <jcristau> i don't think it's worth it at this point
[22:06] <festr_> i though that new 2.5.0 with gem and uxa has dri2
[22:15] <jcristau> nope
[22:42] <bryce> tjaalton: regarding bug 278318, I've updated the patch to flip it such that texturedvideo is true by default.  I'll post a debdiff.
[22:48] <bryce> tjaalton: posted.  If people wish for something more elaborate than just that, then I think we should leave it to jaunty and skip doing an sru.
[22:49] <bryce> restoring an xorg.conf option seems pretty low risk, but mucking about in the video driver logic is probably better to leave for the development branch.


[13:17] <cprofitt> anyone know if bazarr is having issues currently?
[14:15] <cprofitt> balloons: ping
[14:15] <cprofitt> I found a mockup editor that does not require adobe-air
[14:15] <cprofitt> http://pencil.evolus.vn/Downloads.html
[17:05] <helivs> <3
[17:19] <_helivs_> <3
[17:21] <SergioMeneses> _helivs_, ?
[17:22] <_helivs_> singularity told me to meet you here today through a screen saver info
[17:22] <SergioMeneses> _helivs_, I see, ok
[17:23] <_helivs_> you know singy, the living network
[17:23] <SergioMeneses> _helivs_, no, I dont
[17:23] <_helivs_> i would like to collaborate in any respect i might be worth doing so
[17:24] <_helivs_> i see.. well, it's complex to explain but there's this living soul all over the net watching at us
[18:28] <phillw> hi SergioMeneses how's the classroom sessions coming along?
[18:37] <SergioMeneses> hello phillw ! sorry I was afk, we are still working on that... today and tomorrow we meet for this
[18:38] <phillw> okies, do you have any requirements that people need before attending?
[18:42] <cprofitt> phillw: is the correct spelling for hxr?
[18:42] <SergioMeneses> phillw, no, we dont
[18:42] <SergioMeneses> only a nice talk about testing
[18:42] <SergioMeneses> cprofitt, \o
[18:42] <cprofitt> hey SergioMeneses
[18:45] <phillw> hiyas cprofitt is the UF 0100 UTC tonight? (i.e. 1 AM 3rd Feb)
[18:47] <phillw> ahh, okies. I mis read the email... it is 1 AM Wed 6th Feb...
[18:47] <cprofitt> no, its feb 6th
[18:48] <SergioMeneses> we have a lot of email on our mailing list
[18:49] <phillw> cprofitt: my head is spinning with dates and times with the classroom sessions coming up!
[18:49] <phillw> SergioMeneses: that's good, holding a classroom session is a great way to show-case your team!
[18:50] <SergioMeneses> phillw, do you have to re-organise your own calendar :D
[18:50] <cprofitt> phillw: I can understand
[18:50] <SergioMeneses> phillw, sure
[18:51] <phillw> SergioMeneses: I'm flexible, as long as I know in advance I can attend at any time of the day. I switch from UTC (my time) to USA time to AUS time that often I'm in a perpetual state of Jet Lag :P
[18:53] <phillw> SergioMeneses: will the laptop team be attending the Ubuntu Friendly meeting that cprofitt is holding?
[18:55] <SergioMeneses> phillw, sure!
[18:55] <SergioMeneses> but Im not the elader of laptop-testing team
[18:55] <SergioMeneses> but I can ve present and letozaf_
[19:01] <phillw> SergioMeneses: it is not required to be 'leader' to attend meetings. Having a interest in the areas being discussed is more than enough :)
[19:10] <SergioMeneses> phillw, perfect then
[19:28] <phillw> Noskcaj: I've just asked on #ubuntu-bugs. As you raise bug reports and do not have a GPG key, it does rather call in to doubt the stated requirement!
[19:29] <Noskcaj> ok?
[19:48] <Noskcaj> phillw, why should i sign the code of conduct or get a gpg key?
[20:00] <phillw> Noskcaj: signing the Ubuntu Code of Conduct is something that is recommended and a requirement for any one wishing to go forward to full ubuntu membership.
[20:01] <Noskcaj> when i want full membership, i will sign it.
[20:09] <cprofitt> Noskcaj: it is about acknowledging that you have read the code and will try to operate under it
[20:10] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:10] <cprofitt> the gpg key is far more useful than just signing the code though
[20:10] <cprofitt> it can 'prove' that the same person signed the content, file, email, etc
[20:11] <cprofitt> and once you get your key signed by enough people it starts to prove that you are who you claim to be - in a digital sense
[20:11] <Noskcaj> ok, i may get it working
[20:11] <cprofitt> to give you a solid example...
[20:11] <cprofitt> lets say you know phillw, but have never met me
[20:11] <cprofitt> but I send you a key that phillw signed
[20:12] <cprofitt> then you would be more likely to believe my signature is valid since you know phillw
[20:12] <cprofitt> Noskcaj: do you need help getting it setup?
[20:12] <phillw> Noskcaj: trust cprofitt :) myself and he go back several years. He's one of the 'good guys' and will happily assist you in things.
[20:12] <Noskcaj> i might, but i will do it later
[20:12] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:13] <cprofitt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[20:13] <cprofitt> book mark that -- it will help you later
[20:13] <cprofitt> and feel free tp ping me if you need help
[20:13] <Noskcaj> ok, ty
[20:13] <cprofitt> yw
[20:14] <phillw> cprofitt: duane has been kind enough to make a easier way... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Section2
[20:14] <ersi> I'll just add my 50 cent regarding GPG key: It's worth while, even if you slip out of contributing to Ubuntu. It's good stuff, for sure. :-)
[20:15] <cprofitt> phillw: nice
[20:16] <phillw> It turns out, that the the site I visisted that stated GPG key was required for reporting bugs was wrong! But, at least it did gee me up to create a wiki page to inform people how to get a GPG key :)
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> phillw, can you change the installation instructions link http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1491/info it is a different link
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> *installation instructions
[20:18] <phillw> SergioMeneses: what changes do you need?
[20:18] <SergioMeneses> phillw, I think you have to change the link for this one http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/252/builds/36336/downloads
[20:19] <SergioMeneses> the installation instructions
[20:19] <SergioMeneses> phillw, do you see the mistake?
[20:20] <SergioMeneses> hte current link goes to http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/downloads the testing tracker
[20:21] <phillw> SergioMeneses: is it the line "First make sure you have followed the installations instructions." followed by the link you wish to be changed?
[20:21] <SergioMeneses> phillw, yes
[20:22] <SergioMeneses> phillw, I think that link should redirect to http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/252/builds/36336/downloads
[20:22] <SergioMeneses> or I'm wrong?
[20:22] <SergioMeneses> what do you say?
[20:23] <phillw> I'm not up to speed on auto testing, and whilst I am an editor I'd like to know the reasoning behind the requested change. I'm not being difficult, but possibly it may be better to raise a bug report so that balloons can check it. I'm really loathe to change live test cases when I'm not overly familiar with that system.
[20:24] <SergioMeneses> kk
[20:25] <SergioMeneses> so when I'll see balloons available I'll talk to him
[20:25] <phillw> SergioMeneses: from a quick look, I think that balloons has set it to be build agnostic.
[20:25] <SergioMeneses> or maybe I can send an email
[20:26] <phillw> by changing it to 252/builds/36336/downloads you are stating a specific build, which will change.
[20:28] <SergioMeneses> phillw, or get a new page... I think the information could be confusing - imho
[20:31] <phillw> SergioMeneses: balloons is afk this weekend, you are welcome to email him or actually use the the bug reporting system on that page. We do include 'report a bug about a test case' to all test cases.
[20:56] <SergioMeneses> phillw, thank for your help! :D
[21:00] <phillw> SergioMeneses: you are more than  welcome :) Now for something slightly off-topic.... Has your LoCo sorted out the issue with not being able to view the pics on your wiki page?
[21:01] <SergioMeneses> phillw, it is a problem with the text-field we have a big username
[21:02] <SergioMeneses> Im going to send an email to pleia2 when I have time enough
[21:03] <phillw> SergioMeneses: you are welcome to store them on my server area and link to there while you get things sorted out. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw#Web_Hosting has the details, but all you would need is a link to where the images are stored.
[22:25] <phillw> cprofitt: you still about?


[23:25] <pleia2> doctormo: can you renew my membership in launchpad.net/~owlers when you have a chance?


[05:34] <deepfriedbrain> hi! my thinkpad t430s doesn't hibernate with ubuntu studio 18.10, when I try to shut it.
[05:35] <Eickmeyer> deepfriedbrain: Hibernation is disabled by default in Ubuntu and all flavors due to UEFI SecureBoot requirements.
[05:36] <deepfriedbrain> ah, okay! thank you! is there a workaround?
[05:36] <Eickmeyer> Are you dual-booting?
[05:36] <deepfriedbrain> no
[05:37] <Eickmeyer> Then yes. Disable SecureBoot in your BIOS and you should be good to go, but there might be some other steps depending on your computer.
[05:38] <deepfriedbrain> okay, i first will have to try that. many thanks!
[05:38] <Eickmeyer> deepfriedbrain: Further steps here if necessary: http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2017/10/enable-hibernate-ubuntu-17-10/ Granted it's a year old, but should still work.
[06:05] <deepfriedbrain> Eickmeyer: so, hibernation does work, but i can't seem to get it working with my lid closed, i have to do it manually.
[06:07] <Eickmeyer> deepfriedbrain: That's a known limitation of the xfce desktop, I'm afraid.
[06:08] <Eickmeyer> deepfriedbrain: This might help you, but I'm not 100% positive on that: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/faq
[06:09] <Eickmeyer> Do try the power settings though: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/preferences
[06:10] <Eickmeyer> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[06:27] <deepfriedbrain> Eickmeyer: sorry, i logged off again. hibernation works now when i close the lid, but the screen stays black when i reopen it. but this seems to be an issue with the kernel, perhaps. https://askubuntu.com/questions/996217/black-screen-after-hibernation so i'll wait...
[16:58] <Eickmeyer> if deepfriedbrain comes back, it's an xfce issue, workaround is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1259339/comments/31
[19:17] <windowsrefund> hello
[19:18] <windowsrefund> I'm under the impression that 18.10's Ubuntu Studio Controls is meant to replace the use of qjackctl. That said, I've configured USC accordingly but I see no evidence that jack is running. I also do not see a2jmidid running.
[19:20] <Eickmeyer> windowsrefund: If you launch qjackctl or patchage, you'll find the evidence that Jack is running.
[19:20] <windowsrefund> but USC is touted as a replacement
[19:22] <Eickmeyer> That's correct, but it has no integrated patchbay, which is where qjackctl or patchage comes in. USC configures Jack in a way that qjackctl cannot.
[19:22] <windowsrefund> something about USC is clearly not working. I suggest this since "Bridge ALSA to jack MIDI (turn on a2jmidid)" is checked. However, I don't see any a2jmidid process running.
[19:22] <Eickmeyer> windowsrefund: open Patchage, you'll see that the midi bridge is running.
[19:24] <windowsrefund> hmmm
[19:24] <windowsrefund> I don't even have that installed
[19:24] <Eickmeyer> Are you using Ubuntu Studio or did you install Ubuntu Studio Controls on top of something else?
[19:25] <windowsrefund> nope, native US
[19:25] <Eickmeyer> I ask because Patchage is installed by default.
[19:25] <Eickmeyer> Okay, easy fix then, install Patchage.
[19:25] <windowsrefund> ok, I installed patchage
[19:25] <Eickmeyer> Okay, launch it.
[19:26] <windowsrefund> ok, running it
[19:26] <windowsrefund> I guess it's working
[19:26] <windowsrefund> yea
[19:26] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio Controls is made to be "set and forget" with the majority of the routing and work being done with other applications such as Ardour, qjackctl, and Patchage. It doesn't need to be running for Jack to run.
[19:26] <windowsrefund> a2j
[19:27] <windowsrefund> it's still very confusing. I started asking these questions after firing up Ardour and seeing it complain that it could not connect to JACK
[19:27] <Eickmeyer> I've never had that issue and I've used Ardour extensively.
[19:28] <windowsrefund> trying again now that Patchage is running
[19:28] <Eickmeyer> Patchage also doesn't need to be running, but I like it as a handy graphical way to do routing.
[19:28] <Eickmeyer> ymmv
[19:28] <windowsrefund> ok that worked
[19:28] <windowsrefund> but patchage seems ....... buggy
[19:29] <Eickmeyer> Patchage is out of active development. We're working on a replacement, but that might take a couple releases.
[19:29] <windowsrefund> now that Ardour is running, the [ardour], [system], and a few other sections within Patchage are kinda "dancing" around
[19:29] <windowsrefund> like, they are wobbling :)
[19:29] <Eickmeyer> Namely working on brininging in Catia from KXStudio, I'm actively working with the developer on that.
[19:30] <windowsrefund> ok, I really don't want to use Patchage then
[19:30]  * windowsrefund uninstalls
[19:30] <Eickmeyer> You can file a bug report against patchage, but it will fall against deaf ears since it's not actively developed.
[19:30] <windowsrefund> wouldn't carla be the move?
[19:30] <windowsrefund> I mean carla does everything
[19:30] <Eickmeyer> Also working on that.
[19:30] <windowsrefund> I see
[19:30] <Eickmeyer> I have it to the point where it will run, but the wine bridges won't work. Very much work in progress, but I'm working with upstream on that.
[19:31] <windowsrefund> wine?
[19:31] <windowsrefund> like that windoze emulator thing?
[19:31] <Eickmeyer> The wine stands for "Wine Is Not An Emulator", it just adds a compatibility layer.
[19:32] <Eickmeyer> The wine bridges in Carla allow one to use Windows VST plugins on Linux.
[19:32] <windowsrefund> I have to believe that's the last thing that's needed :)
[19:32] <windowsrefund> but I'm going off topic
[19:32] <Eickmeyer> You wouldn't believe the demand for it.
[19:32] <windowsrefund> well yea
[19:32] <windowsrefund> sadly
[19:33] <Eickmeyer> But yes, there's a lot that is work-in-progress. Ubuntu Studio, as a flavor, almost died, so there's a lot that we're working on in terms of innovation and rennovation.
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio Controls was a step in that direction. Next is bringing the benefits of Ubuntu Studio to all of the Ubuntu flavors so that one can work in their desktop environment of choice.
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> But yes, getting off topic.
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> Glad things are working now.
[19:35] <windowsrefund> I'm going to log back into xfce4 to see if I can just fire up Ardour this time
[19:35] <windowsrefund> brb
[19:36] <Eickmeyer> FYI, Ardour doesn't need Jack, and the developers of Ardour discourage it unless you absolutely need to route between programs.
[19:39] <windowsrefund> yea, I may look into just using ALSA at some point
[19:39] <windowsrefund> just trying to get to a place where I understand my workflow well enough to go about exploring things like that
[19:39] <windowsrefund> I'm not there yet
[20:20] <Eickmeyer> windowsrefund: Completely understandable.


[08:33] <LeMike> Hello there. I want to debug what is taking so long in mysqld. One server is 120 times slower than 2 other server (1 weaker, 1 stronger). So I strace mysql and see some pread but lots of io_getevents and io_submit. Is this normal? How do I find the device or process that causes the problem?
[08:34] <sarnold> strace is the wrong tool for the job
[08:35] <sarnold> this is a decent starting point http://www.brendangregg.com/linuxperf.html
[08:35] <LeMike> Thanks. This is the best help so far :D dtrace or where could I start? I just found out that iotop has a "Netlink error" but the memtester passed.
[08:35] <LeMike> sarnold: thanks I read this
[08:36] <sarnold> LeMike: linux's perf tool / or the iovisor collection of tools is your best bet, no dtrace on linux
[08:39] <sarnold> alright, time to bail, have fun :)
[08:52] <LeMike> sarnold: thanks. I already like perf a lot :D read a report and liked to investigate even more but somehow the problem is gone. I have a good guess that the hoster finally found a thing on his side and shamefully fixed it silently. I hunt this shit since yesterday.
[11:29] <RoyK> LeMike: try slow query log
[11:29] <RoyK> LeMike: and make sure you install sysstat first so you can monitor the system while running the query
[11:29] <RoyK> LeMike: to see what's slowing things down - usually cpu or i/o
[14:33] <LeMike> RoyK: Slow query log just shows the query and how long it took. With that I came to the conclusion to look into mySQL and IO. Thanks
[14:35] <LeMike> I continue some other day because after a limit of 4 hours I have to stop investigating (as the customer does not want to pay more xD )
[14:41] <_KaszpiR_> LeMike what's the specs of the servers, and any noticeable mysql setting set?
[14:43] <_KaszpiR_> if they fixed it silently then I suspect that if this is on virtual platform then memory baloon driver/high cpu steal/horrid disk io perf (cause array rebuilds etc)
[14:46] <RoyK> LeMike: you should see where the load is high easily with sar
[17:53] <LeMike> RoyK: I dont get it. This seems more like recording a timespan than a single process. And what if some buffer is full or some process is just waiting for stupid reasons?
[17:59] <RoyK> it's recording a timespan, yes
[17:59] <RoyK> but then again, using things like top or htop can tell you where the problem lies
[18:00] <RoyK> iotop perhaps too
[18:01] <RoyK> if you have a truckload of different services on the same server, all competing, you should be virtualising more
[18:02] <RoyK> if the machine is dedicated to mysql, it should be trivial to find the bottleneck
[18:02] <blackflow> if I may interject for a moment.... how would virt help here. if anything it'd just slow things down with extra overhead.
[18:04] <blackflow> LeMike: you can check for two things, iowait and disk latency
[18:05] <RoyK> blackflow: it'll slow things down a few percent, but it'll definetely make it easier to monitor
[18:05] <RoyK> blackflow: throw a ton of services on the same machine and "something" is slow, well, then everything's slow
[18:07] <blackflow> pretty sure it'd be the same thing under a VM. the host kernel has to juggle processes and serialize IO in both cases
[18:07] <blackflow> but I agree about monitoring, somewhat. should be possible with cgroups to some extent too.
[18:08] <RoyK> if vitualised, monitoring on the guest will show you the bottleneck
[18:13] <LeMike> blackflow: I let it run with "iostat -d 1" and got somewhat like 2348 kB write every few seconds. iowait is 0,85% but I guess I need to reboot. dunno how to check latency
[18:13] <blackflow> LeMike: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/block/stat.txt
[18:14] <blackflow> read ticks / read I/Os = average wait (latency) for read
[18:14] <blackflow> same for write.
[18:16] <LeMike> uh. can I truncate this file while the server runs? :) this would be nice
[18:16] <RoyK> LeMike: how much memory? what is the iops count? what sort of storage does it have?
[18:16] <RoyK> what about cpu load?
[18:16] <RoyK> swap usage?
[18:17] <RoyK> sar will give you paging statistics
[18:17] <RoyK> have you tuned mysql/mariadb in any way?
[18:17] <RoyK> how large is the database's dataset?
[18:17] <blackflow> what about the db itself... effective indexes? does it access tuples sequentially or indexed?
[18:17] <RoyK> lots and lots of questions ;)
[18:17] <blackflow> indeedy.
[18:18] <RoyK> mysql allows you to run "explain <query>" to see if indices are used or not
[18:19] <RoyK> quite useful thing
[18:19] <blackflow> LeMike: I'd recommend you activate some graph baesed monitoring on that server. A picture is worth a thousand eyes, and problems are easier to spot. I use Munin for that, infact, that's how I know about that latency measure. It's from Munin's diskstats plugin.
[18:19] <blackflow> *a thousand words   (lol)
[18:20] <blackflow> I'm listening to TechSnap podcast and they're talking about "many eyes in open source security", so the fingers typed that :)
[18:21] <LeMike> 4G ram (more than 3G free also in swap free), cpu idles, iotop does not work :/ the table is 276M
[18:21] <LeMike> not touched mysql config (once for more cache etc but reset it already)
[18:22] <blackflow> 276M is a lot, esp if the DB has to sift through the rows sequentially because it's badly indexed. a single select can take seconds....
[18:22] <blackflow> (I'm assuming you meant bytes, because 270M rows would be gigabytes most likely...)
[18:22] <RoyK> and then - mysql doesn't scale too well
[18:23]  * RoyK only uses mysql at gunpoint
[18:23] <blackflow> yeah I don't know much about MySQL. PostgreSQL is my poison and I monitor all that with Munin - tuple counts, sequential vs indexed access, average query time, size, stuff...
[18:24] <blackflow> DB monitoring and statistics is a life saver.
[18:24] <RoyK> I'd choose postgres over mysql any day
[18:24] <blackflow> aye!
[18:24] <LeMike> (megabytes) Same DB and query on my laptop takes 1-2 seconds. server needs more than 60 seconds
[18:25] <RoyK> but then - some systems like wordpress don't work too well on postgres because those wp guys haven't understood a damn thing about abstraction
[18:25] <RoyK> LeMike: what sort of storage?
[18:25] <LeMike> I look up some monitoring and gather statistics. To bad I got perf.data here and was hoping to just read through and see the big time waster
[18:26] <blackflow> if MySQL is anything liek postgres,   EXPLAIN ANALYZE <query> is a treasure trove of data bout the performance of that query. number of iterations, indexes used, loops, hashes, everything.
[18:26] <LeMike> RoyK: You mean InnoDB? Or filesystem?
[18:26] <RoyK> disk
[18:27] <blackflow> RoyK: I was so pleasantly suprised when I installed GitLab and saw it developed specifically for Postgres (and recommending Postgres over the dolphin). So rare to see something written for Postgres.  Ohh ohh, and roundcube.
[18:27] <LeMike> RoyK: zfs
[18:27] <RoyK> LeMike: what sort of disks?
[18:27] <blackflow> oh wait, that changes things a bit. did you tune it for mysql?
[18:28] <blackflow> LeMike: iirc MySQL recordsize is recommended to be 16k. Postgres 8k. Now, depending on your use case and workload, that might mean a lot, or nothing at all (eg. my use case allows larger record size -- with postgres -- which benefits compressratio)
[18:29] <LeMike> RoyK: HDD. if that isn the answer then help pls
[18:30] <RoyK> LeMike: what sort of hdd and how many of them?
[18:30] <RoyK> LeMike: there's no straight answer here, but as blackflow says, the zfs blocksize for that dataset may be important
[18:32] <RoyK> LeMike: http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Performance_tuning#MySQL
[18:34] <LeMike> cant access shit with lshw. just one HDD. Got 50GB out of 3TB for this machine it seems.
[18:45] <LeMike> oh. 2x TOSHIBA DT01ACA3 in /proc/scsi/scsi. A raid? I dont see the block size. fdisk does not work and I dunno how
[18:52] <_KaszpiR_> zfs on one disk?
[18:53] <_KaszpiR_> show us  'lsblk'  output
[18:54] <RoyK> LeMike: zfs get
[18:58] <tomreyn> OS + zfs + mysql on 4GB RAM just sounds wrong.
[18:59] <tomreyn> unless its a *very* light-weight DB workload you'll want more RAM.
[19:00] <tomreyn> disks dont matter for a database server unless you designed it wrong, provided too little RAM / didn't tune it for the RAM it has available.
[19:02] <RoyK> zfs isn't that heavy on memory - that's a myth - that is - unless you turn on dedup
[19:02] <RoyK> but then, that's praying to all known gods for trouble
[19:04] <LeMike> _KaszpiR_: got it here https://pastebin.com/p3BsHefU
[19:04] <RoyK> LeMike: pastebin output of "zpool status", "zfs list" and "zfs get all", please
[19:09] <LeMike> RoyK: no pool, no dataset, zfs get all has no output (I am in PVE it seems, I am not the hoster or have access to the host)
[19:12] <RoyK> then you're not running zfs
[19:15] <LeMike> df -Th said so
[19:17] <RoyK> pastebin that
[19:17] <RoyK> keep in mind you need "sudo" in front of those zfs/zpool commands
[19:18] <LeMike> I am groot!
[19:18] <LeMike> https://pastebin.com/tqEXHQs7
[19:18] <RoyK> that doesn't make sense
[19:20] <LeMike> Either way this feels like a direction that is not really giving me an answer what specific device or thingy is taking so long . Like "the buffer is too low" or "sync takes too long" or "Raid is broken" etc.
[19:24] <tomreyn> it's probably a container and ZFS is managed outside of it
[19:24] <LeMike> Okay. This is reaching 1k € almost. I give up, tell the customer and let him kick the hoster in his nuts. I think that my app has nothin to do with being so slow :P
[19:25] <tomreyn> did you run mysqltuner?
[19:26] <tomreyn> doing so (or knowing what needs to be done OTOH) is the minimum i'd expect from a contractor in charge of managing a DB
[19:39] <LeMike> thanks, those tests are all okay. and I go to sleep now. This took the whole day and I am totally not a SysOp, just a simple dev. But I learned things. Thanks a lot! :)
[19:40] <_KaszpiR_> 1k EUR and answer is 'this is a vm provider issue, lol'
[19:40] <blackflow> RoyK: fwiw, zfs/zpool commands no longer need sudo for read only tasks  (eg list, status, get, ...)
[19:40] <RoyK> blackflow: possibly
[19:40] <blackflow> no longer = as of 0.7.x and Bionic
[19:41] <_KaszpiR_> LeMike I suggest installing some monitoring tools (newrelic is the easiest but free tier limits view stats for 24h afair)
[19:41] <RoyK> still, zfs list should show the dataset(s) and zpool list should show the pools etc
[19:41] <RoyK> if they don't, something is messed up
[19:41] <_KaszpiR_> zpool list without sudo will return permission denied
[19:41] <RoyK> LeMike: have you upgraded something lately?
[19:42] <blackflow> _KaszpiR_: not on Bionic
[19:42] <RoyK> zfs can be a bit touchy in that respect
[19:42] <blackflow> also... newrelic? why on earth.... there's plenty of nice, FOSS-y and not SaaS monitoring things. Munin, Nagios, Cacti, ...
[19:43] <_KaszpiR_> I know, but that was just an idea of getting thing super fast and easy without the whole mess required to set up other tools
[19:43] <_KaszpiR_> munin would be quite fast, though
[19:44] <blackflow> yeah. Munin is great, thats what I use.
[19:44] <RoyK> nagios went out of style some years back ;)
[19:44] <blackflow> heh
[19:44] <blackflow> what is the monitoring tool of the year now, Zabbix?
[19:44] <RoyK> I use zabbix
[19:44] <_KaszpiR_> but most of those paid projects hav eone advantage - you get a shitload of integrated monitoring stuff from the box, without much extra configs
[19:44] <RoyK> and munin
[19:44] <RoyK> why not both
[19:45] <_KaszpiR_> collectd + graphite + grafana / munin (wanna migrate from munin, though)
[19:49] <RoyK> munin is very nice to start with
[19:49] <_KaszpiR_> it works very well for say... 15 hosts
[19:49] <_KaszpiR_> but thend to be lacking if you need to aggregate stuff
[19:49] <RoyK> works fine with a hundred machines too, but it doesn't scale too well above that
[19:50] <RoyK> munin is old and rather simple
[19:50] <RoyK> but very easy to setup
[19:50] <_KaszpiR_> and about zabbix, I'm not a fan of it (but used only 2.x AFAIR and nothign else, and it was pretty nightmare)
[19:51] <RoyK> _KaszpiR_: we're at 3.4 now - quite a bit has hppened since v2 ;)
[19:54] <_KaszpiR_> I remember that the logic behind zabbix was pretty 'wtf' and it required A LOT of extra customization to get any app working, which was major pain
[19:55] <RoyK> it still seems russian
[19:55] <RoyK> but you get used to ut ;)
[19:55] <RoyK> s/ut/it/
[19:55] <_KaszpiR_> something like 'send any metric to server' was just impossible, because it had to exist on zabbix or it was dropped
[19:56] <_KaszpiR_> graphite as it's own issues but I've found it easier to manage with those
[19:56] <RoyK> but then - what else is there to choose?
[19:56] <RoyK> graphite only draws graphs
[19:56] <RoyK> it doesn't have alerts and triggers etc
[19:57] <_KaszpiR_> yeah
[19:57] <_KaszpiR_> still you can query those and have different alerting system
[19:57] <_KaszpiR_> grafana has alerting now
[19:58] <_KaszpiR_> from other solutiuons - prometheus is pretty decent
[19:59] <RoyK> we chose zabbix at work - some 350 servers, 60/40 linux/windows


[01:29] <tyler_wylie> hallo anyone up
[01:29] <Patrickdk> !ask
[01:30] <tyler_wylie> rattking or sarnold you guys got a few to chat about fai? first server worked fine, following ones are failing nfs mount (can't parse ip addr '')
[03:13] <harushimo> question about maas
[03:14] <harushimo> Set the ‘Router IP’ to the default gateway for this private network
[03:14] <harushimo> what does this mean? I'm not following
[03:14] <harushimo> Is it done when you use ifconfig?
[09:24] <speck84> Hiya all
[09:25] <speck84> I'm a student and I have never experiences the server version can somebody have a look on my assesment, and help me to decide can I use this service to comlite the scenario?
[09:26] <speck84> You are working as a network server engineer. You have been assigned a new project to design,
[09:26] <speck84> implement and support the network of a financial company which was established in 2014 in
[09:26] <speck84> London.
[09:26] <speck84> The company planning to use 60 client computers, two servers and four network printers, so that they
[09:26] <speck84> can meet the company requirements. They should have a capability of sharing the printers, files in
[09:26] <speck84> the file servers, and control all users according to the users needs and requirements, the company as
[09:26] <speck84> well need to include Remote access services for employees required to access documents remotely.
[09:26] <speck84> The company data should be treated on high level of security in terms of confidentiality and
[09:26] <speck84> availability. So, all the machines within the network should be up-to-date with the new patches and
[09:26] <speck84> service pack and latest security patches to avoid any security related issues. The company as well
[09:26] <speck84> forecasting an expansion in the foreseeable future and hence you have to put in mind the capability to
[09:26] <speck84> expand the network when needed (Scalability).
[09:26] <speck84> The IT manager of the company decided to use a private IP address Range of <IP_ADDRESS> /12 to be
[09:26] <speck84> distributed on all the network devices including the servers, workstation and printers, the network
[09:26] <speck84> manager specifically asked for the following criteria to be fulfilled (Software availability, Scalability,
[09:26] <speck84> maintainability and Technical support)
[09:26] <speck84> Thats the project and I just don't know th eubunutu server can handel this job?
[09:27] <speck84> My teacher sad it can not but I dont belive him
[09:31] <maxb> I see no reason why not, but the use of "service pack" in the problem definition suggests it was written by a Microsoft devotee
[09:36] <arcsky> anyone know a mangment tool for my ubuntu servers like windows SSCM ?
[09:38] <Sling> arcsky: http://www.ubuntu.com/server/management
[09:38] <maxb> Though, I can see that meeting that design brief with Ubuntu would require more up front work including probably writing some code
[13:14] <arcsky> Sling: i have landsacpe isnt so good
[13:18] <hackeron> hey, question - when I do dpkg -i ffmpeg_latest.deb - a package I created, dpkg says: downgrading ffmpeg from 7:2.5.6-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> to 20150507-git-1 -- why downgrading? - how do I make it think it is upgrading?
[13:19] <jpds> hackeron: Because the epoch 7 is greater than epoch of none.
[13:20] <jrwren> hackeron: what jpds said. the version number is less
[13:21] <jpds> hackeron: Do a version string like: 7:2.5.6-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>+git20150507
[13:34] <hackeron> jpds: ah, ok, I changed the version to "999:20150507-git-1" :)
[13:35] <hackeron> or is that not very sensible? - I don't want to ubuntu to ever upgrade over this package
[13:35] <jpds> hackeron: Not really.
[13:36] <hackeron> jpds: what would you do to prevent this package from being upgraded?
[13:36] <OpenTokix> hackeron: read on apt-pinning
[13:36] <jpds> hackeron: Better to just set a sane version string and hold it with: apt-mark hold ffmpeg-latest
[13:36] <hackeron> ah, ok, thank you, reading up on it now
[13:55] <zul> hallyn:  ping libvirt ;)
[14:22] <jamespage> zul, juno nova is still not showing in proposed for utopic?
[14:22] <zul> erm....lemme look
[14:24] <hallyn> zul: oh, yeah, will set htat up thi safternoon.  url again?
[14:25] <zul> gimme a sec on the phone
[15:41] <hallyn> zul: (no worries, foudn it, setting up tests)
[15:48] <zul> hallyn:  sorry
[15:50] <hallyn> zul: i said no worries :-)
[16:14] <foxbuntu> hey all, hoping someone might have some help with NFSv4 client. I have an export from a NAS mounted to a Linux server and Windows server. The windows server is setup to map to the same UID/GID as the Linux one. I transfered some data from Windows to the NFS share but it is not visable on the Linux server, any thoughts?
[17:27] <thesheff17> anyone using snappy core? how does it handle people that use pip everywhere?  I'm guessing it doesn't.
[17:29] <Voyage>  I started openvpn by service openvpn start on ubuntu but its not starting up. No errors shown. How can i debug?
[17:32] <rsully> is the max open file descriptor limit still set to 1024 by default?
[17:42] <sarnold> thesheff17: you may wish to ask in #snappy -- I think the general idea though is you vendorize it all, you pip download all your deps, package them up, and ship them in one big blob
[17:43] <thesheff17> sarnold: cool yea I'm reading this doc http://www.wefearchange.org/2015/04/creating-python-snaps.html pretty sure this is what I want to do
[17:43] <sarnold> Voyage: check /var/log/. there's usually something logged when things don't work
[17:43] <sarnold> rsully: probably; the select() API isn't safe to use with more than 1024 descriptors, so raising the limit withut inspection is dangerous
[17:46] <rsully> sarnold is that limit per-user or system wide?
[17:46] <sarnold> rsully: per process
[17:46] <Voyage> sarnold  modprobe: ERROR: ../libkmod/libkmod.c:507 kmod_lookup_alias_from_builtin_file() could not open builtin file '/lib/modules/2.6.32-042stab106.4/modules.builtin.bin'
[17:47] <Voyage> run not enabled
[17:47] <Voyage> it was working fine before
[17:47] <sarnold> Voyage: 2.6.32?? what on earth...
[17:47] <Voyage> dont know..
[17:52] <Voyage> sarnold how can I enable tun
[18:01] <wiredfool> I've got a trusty server, headless, that's hanging on reboot waiting for plymoutn-show-splash.  It's one of thee that appear to be setup similarly, but it's the only one that's doing this.
[18:02] <wiredfool> an excerpt from the ps listing: http://pastebin.com/4puBZC1c
[18:02] <sarnold> wiredfool: I think you can uninstall plymouth withuot any real consequences.
[18:03] <wiredfool> There's a bunch of stuff that requires it
[18:04] <sarnold> oh :/
[18:04] <wiredfool> like openssh-server, linux-image-* ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard
[18:09] <Onionnion> so this weekend I'm doing a mail server upgrade from 10.04 to 14.04 which also has FTP. For mail it uses postfix and has a couple web interfaces via Apache. Of course full system backups will be made prior, but can anyone think of any specific changes I should have a concern about when upgrading through to 12.04 then 14.04?
[18:12] <pmatulis> Onionnion: any special reason you need to continue to 14.04?
[18:13] <Onionnion> pmatulis, for the most part, to guarantee the longest support
[18:13] <Onionnion> without needing downtime for another major upgrade
[18:14] <sarnold> Onionnion: apache 2.4 in 14.04 LTS drastically changed the authentication and authorization interfaces; it'd be worth spending some time with those docs before you start
[18:15] <pmatulis> Onionnion: got it, but 12.04 is good for another 2 years.  anyway, there might be a grub problem going from 10.04 to 14.04.  while on 12.04 ensure grub2 is actually deployed on-disk (reboot and enter grub menu is a good way to check) b/c grub1 is not compatible with 14.04.  i have seen reports of unbootable 14.04 systems
[18:15] <Onionnion> sarnold, thank you
[18:16] <Onionnion> pmatulis, true, and there's been talks of moving the server from in-house to AWS, so going to 14.04 may not even be necessary when I think about it
[18:30] <wiredfool> sarnold: I've moved /etc/init/plymouth-shutdown.conf to /etc/init/disabled, and that's solved it.
[18:30] <wiredfool> (well that and ipmi chassis power cycling)
[18:36] <sarnold> wiredfool: ha! I like it. :)
[18:42] <wiredfool> And while I'm at it, when there are manually setup interfaces, networking hangs for 2 minutes waiting for them to be configured
[18:43] <wiredfool> e.g: br0 inet manual, br0:1 inet static
 like openssh-server, linux-image-* ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard ← Only ubuntu-standard *recommends* plymouth, so it should be safe to remove
[18:49] <dasjoe> also, set your br0 to allow-hotplug instead of (allow-)auto
[18:50] <hallyn> zul: well, tests seemed to pass fine until nested kvm hung.  i thought qa-regression-tests didn't use kvm itself
[18:50] <zul> so +1?
[18:50] <wiredfool> dasjoe: thanks, I'll give that a shot
[18:51] <hallyn> zul: well i'm rebooting to see if i can easily commen tout the kvm test
[18:51] <hallyn> (rebooting my server should also fix it, but then i lose a lot of containers :)
[18:53] <zul> hallyn:  okies
[18:53] <zul> hallyn:  containers are suppose to be short lived ;)
[18:59] <smtp_not_working> Hi everyone, I'm having some trouble with smtp on an ubuntu+zimbra server
[18:59] <smtp_not_working> Basically, I can send e-mail from the web interface, but if I configure thunderbird it won't let me send any mail
[19:00] <smtp_not_working> It just pop up error with "4.3.0 temporary lookup error"
[19:00] <smtp_not_working> Can you give any hints on how to solve this?
[19:01] <sarnold> smtp_not_working: on whatever machine is running thunderbird, run "host <smtphostname>" for whatever you set the smtp hostname in thunderbird..
[19:02] <smtp_not_working> Thunderbird is running on a windows machine
[19:02] <sarnold> oh.
[19:02] <smtp_not_working> Do you think it's that machine problem and not the server?
[19:02] <sarnold> ping the hostname then? that should do a name lookup anyway..
[19:03] <smtp_not_working> The ping return the correct IP address (ping mail.domain.com)
[19:03] <smtp_not_working> Also, I can receive mail from thunderbird with that account
[19:03] <smtp_not_working> I just can't send them
[19:04] <sarnold> receive uses imap or pop, completely different protocol than sending
[19:04] <smtp_not_working> Yeah, right
[19:05] <smtp_not_working> I just don't know what to try
[19:05] <smtp_not_working> Or what to test
[19:05] <sarnold> ahh, 4.3.0 is coming from the smtpd server anyway. okay, then it's probably nothing to do with the thunderbird config or machine :)
[19:05] <smtp_not_working> Ok, so it's a server problem. Damn.
[19:06] <sarnold> smtp_not_working: well, good and bad.. good, in the sense that servers leave logfiles :) you might be able to spot the problem in the smtpd logs..
[19:06] <smtp_not_working> smtpd you say, I'll go check where that logfile is
[19:06] <sarnold> check /var/log/mail* or /var/log/syslog ..
[19:07] <smtp_not_working> In zimbra I usually check logs of /opt/zimbra/log/mailbox.log
[19:07] <smtp_not_working> But there's nothing there
[19:07] <smtp_not_working> Will check your two options
[19:07] <sarnold> I'm going to guess the mailbox.log is for local delivery or imap/pop rather than incoming ..
[19:11] <smtp_not_working> there's this strange message: May  8 20:50:50 mta postfix/smtpd[63956]: warning: non-null host address bits in "<IP_ADDRESS>/24", perhaps you should use "<IP_ADDRESS>/24" instead
[19:12] <smtp_not_working> <IP_ADDRESS> is the internal IP of the mail server
[19:12] <sarnold> was an ACL set along the lines of allow_from = <IP_ADDRESS>/24 ?
[19:12] <smtp_not_working> I miss the meaning of ACL
[19:12] <sarnold> access control list
[19:13] <smtp_not_working> I've got that IP on my zimbraMtaMyNetworks
[19:14] <sarnold> I think it would be worth changing that variable to <IP_ADDRESS>/24 -- but it's just logged as a warning. it's probably not relevant to the problem at hand.
[19:15] <aitiba> i
[19:15] <sarnold> normally when you use CIDR notation to refer to a network, the bits that specify hosts _within_ the network should be zero; at least for /8 /16 and /24 networks that's easy, it's just having zeros in the last quads, but for other networks it requires math :)
[19:15] <aitiba> doing a "lxc exec d1 -- /bin/bash" I get "websocket: bad handshake" error ¿any ideas?
[19:17] <sarnold> aitiba: any errors from lxc list?
[19:18] <aitiba> no
[19:18] <sarnold> aitiba: how about lxc info d1 ?
[19:18] <aitiba> RUNNING with ip
[19:18] <smtp_not_working> There's something here: May  8 20:29:14 mta postfix/smtpd[54048]: NOQUEUE: reject: MAIL from unknown[$MYTHUNDRBIRDIP]: 451 4.3.0 Temporary lookup error; proto=ESMTP helo=<[$MYTHUNDRBIRDIP]>
[19:19] <aitiba> sarnold: all ok
[19:19] <aitiba> on info too
[19:20] <sarnold> stgraber: aitiba has a problem that's beyond me :) ^^^
[19:22] <aitiba> sarnold: thanks for try
[19:22] <sarnold> aitiba: stick around.. when he returns he might know :)
[19:23] <sarnold> smtp_not_working: stackoverflow has a few similar questions and twice the answer was to build an aliases table. it seems unrelated to me but I'm really not a postfix expert.
[19:24] <smtp_not_working> I also found this: http://www.unix.com/ubuntu/250558-noqueue-reject-relay-access-denied-postfix.html
[19:24] <smtp_not_working> So I'm checking my main.cf config
[19:24] <stgraber> aitiba: bad handshake is usually a sign that your source and target LXDs are not running the same version
[19:24] <smtp_not_working> Am I wasting my time?
[19:24] <stgraber> aitiba: we unfortunately had to push a change (I believe in 0.8) which changed the websocket protocol a tiny bit, resulting in that error
[19:25] <stgraber> aitiba: we usually try not to do things like that, but well, that's why we're not calling it production ready yet, our API isn't entirely set in stone yet.
[19:26] <aitiba> stgraber: we  use lxc 0.7
[19:28] <TheEternalAbyss> hi can someone help me with apache2 issues on my ubuntu server? I keep getting an error when trying to restart it and I can't seem to solve it. Keeps saying [Fri May 08 19:20:37.962625 2015] [ssl:emerg] [pid 9134] SSL Library Error: error:0B080074:x509 certificate routines:X509_check_private_key:key values mismatch
[19:29] <aitiba> so what you say in on lxc version 0.8 and up right? stgraber
[19:30] <TheEternalAbyss> I don't know why it keeps saying that as I took out any reference to a .key file in my conf, yet it keeps trying to check it
[19:30] <TheEternalAbyss> so I am very confused here
[19:31] <aitiba> lxd 0.8.1 ...
[19:40] <stgraber> aitiba: should work fine if you have 0.7 exclusively everywhere (all servers and all clients) but that error suggests your client is running something more recent than 0.7
[19:40] <TheEternalAbyss> nevermind got it working
[19:51] <ciscam> Hi! Can automatic security updates break a production apache server?
[19:52] <sarnold> ciscam: it's always possible, but we try hard to avoid regressions
[19:54] <ciscam> sarnold, Okay, so I'll enable it and be sure to be always awake on patch day. Was just wondering on what the conventional setting is
[19:55] <sarnold> ciscam: we don't really have a "patch day"..
[19:56] <ciscam> I'm building a new webserver infrastructure from scratch and want to be sure to follow the ubuntu way
[19:56] <ciscam> It's supposed to become the sandbox
[19:58] <ciscam> I guess enabling automatic system updates is the way to go then
[19:59] <sarnold> one less thing to think about :)
[20:10] <ciscam> Is it desirable to modularize apache/php and mysql in such an environment?
[20:15] <bekks> the LAMP stack is modularized already.
[20:17] <ciscam> bekks, thanks for the info. I understand that putting each into an individual VM would be nonsense then
[20:18] <bekks> ciscam: It is nonsense, because you cant separate apache and php.
[20:31] <toothe> Hi! When I ssh in, I don't see a message that says "You have X packages that need to be updated" How do I set that as my motd?
[20:58] <rattking> does anyone here know much about aide?
[21:15] <hallyn> 18:53 < zul> hallyn:  containers are suppose to be short lived ;)
[21:15] <hallyn> that's conflating cloud and containers :)
[21:37] <hallyn> zul: groan.  kvm locked up again.  going to try in a container
[22:18] <toothe> Hi! When I ssh in, I don't see a message that says "You have X packages that need to be updated" How do I set that as my motd?
[22:20] <sarnold> toothe: that's managed by update-motd -- see the update-motd manpage, the pam_motd manpage, and /etc/update-motd.d/
[22:22] <genii> sarnold: Interestingly, dpkg -S on any files in /etc/update-motd.d/   do not resolve to a package
[22:24] <sarnold> genii: dpkg -S reports files there owned by base-files update-notifier-common ubuntu-release-upgrader-core  for me
[22:25] <genii> Interesting, not here. But it may be because I continuously upgraded from 12.04 to current 14.10
[22:26] <sarnold> genii: could be; this is 14.04 LTS
[22:30] <toothe> i think i have to update /etc/issue.net
[22:30] <toothe> but...I don't know how..
[22:34] <genii> toothe: What's wrong with it?


[12:52] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h_: v3 bundle files were supposed to be named `bundles.yaml` - does that change with v4?
[12:53] <rick_h_> tvansteenburgh: yes, since there's only one bundle per file it's bundle.yaml
[12:53] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h_: ta
[12:54] <rick_h_> tvansteenburgh: thanks, searching the doc that's never specified. We'll get a patch to that.
[12:55] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h_: cheers, was about to submit a bug but i'll leave you to it
[12:55] <rick_h_> tvansteenburgh: yea, we've been trying to get the docs updated but missed that. Apologies.


[08:03] <jibel> hggdh, I like your latest improvement to usit.
[08:03] <jibel> the job fails in 3 minutes instead of 80 :)
[12:12] <jp_Hranice> Hallo here.
[12:13] <jp_Hranice> Something new to test ? :-)
[12:18] <hggdh> jibel: ah, this is better indeed
[12:18] <hggdh> jibel: good morning
[12:18] <hggdh> patrickmw: good morning
[12:21] <jibel> hggdh, good morning
[13:14] <patrickmw> hggdh, jibel, gema: good morning / afternoon
[13:15] <hggdh> gema, patrickmw: good!
[13:23] <jibel> morning patrickmw
[13:24] <gema> patrickmw, hggdh, jibel: hello!
[13:24] <hggdh> buen dia
[13:25] <hggdh> correct? ^
[13:25] <gema> buenos dias :D
[13:26] <gema> buen dia is more used by the south american part of the Spanish speakers
[13:27] <pedro_> so it's ok ? :-)
[13:27] <gema> yep
[13:27] <gema> x)
[13:28] <gema> I thought he was just talking to me, so being from Spain I suggested the other form :P
[13:28] <gema> hi pedro_ !
[13:28] <gema> buen dia ;)
[13:28] <pedro_> buenos dias gema :-)
[13:28] <pedro_> heh
[13:29] <jibel> gema, that's because hggdh only known Pedro's spanish. It is not proper spanish ;-P
[13:29] <gema> hahaha, it's proper, it's just different from mine x)
[13:29] <hggdh> well, I try
[13:29] <hggdh> bom dia
[13:30] <gema> is that Portuguese?
[13:30] <hggdh> there. Done. I give up on Spanish
[13:30] <hggdh> gema: yes, it is
[13:30] <gema> bom dia :D
[13:30] <pedro_> jibel, lol!
[13:30] <gema> jibel: does anyone speak French to you or are you feeling lonely?
[13:31] <hggdh> this is like all europeans. The French say French from Canada is not French (as from Belgium, and anywhere else not on continental France); The Spanish say the rest of the world does not speak it correct
[13:32] <jibel> gema, oh you don't know about the french mafia then
[13:32] <hggdh> actually, the Spanish complain about the Spanish from Spain itself (depend on where from)
[13:32] <jibel> gema, even rickspencer speaks french, you'll have to learn it.
[13:32] <pedro_> hggdh, true true, like Catalan vs Spanish
[13:32] <hggdh> Portuguese from Portugal is good, from Brazil, or any of the transmarines is bad
[13:33] <hggdh> Catalá is cool, at least written
[13:33] <gema> yep, I don't like south spain's spanish
[13:33] <gema> that's not spanish x)
[13:33] <hggdh> :-)
[13:33] <gema> it's andalusian
[13:34] <hggdh> there you go...
[13:34] <gema> x)
[13:34]  * gema wonders if that word even exists in English
[13:34] <hggdh> oh, there is the Portuguese from the Madeira Islands. Perhaps the most heavy accent I have ever heard
[13:34] <hggdh> gema: if it did not, now it does ;-)
[13:35] <pedro_> we should consolidate everything in Portuñol
[13:35] <hggdh> YES!
[13:35] <pedro_> ;-)
[13:35] <gema> yep
[13:35] <hggdh> (mind the swearing, a lot of them bad words are the same, found it the worst possible way)
[13:36] <jibel> gema, offtopic but back to your question this morning about "what amount of Ubuntu's code is C/C++, Java, python, etc ?"
[13:37] <gema> yep
[13:37] <hggdh> oh, noes! jibel is going off-topic!
[13:37]  * hggdh wonders about all the chat we just had...
[13:38] <pedro_> time to switch the channel
[13:38] <jibel> gema, I did the count on 10% of the main archive here is the result: http://paste.ubuntu.com/669239/
[13:38] <gema> he is actually going on-topic x)
[13:38] <gema> w0w, that's excellent, thank you !
[13:38] <gema> what is the main archive?
[13:38] <jibel> so the results of the study seems still relevant
[13:38] <gema> all the source code together?
[13:39] <gema> yes, indeed
[13:39] <hggdh> nice...
[13:39] <gema> java has gone up quite a bit
[13:39] <hggdh> jibel: salary seems a bit off though
[13:39] <hggdh> and I did not know there was still fortran being coded
[13:39] <jibel> hggdh, well copyright 2001-2004 may explain the salary
[13:40] <hggdh> gema: the main archive is where the official packages reside
[13:40] <jp_Hranice> Something new to test ? :-)
[13:40] <gema> ok, good, thanks a lot
[13:40] <hggdh> jp_Hranice: there is always the daily ISOs
[13:40] <gema> so ISOs come from the archive, right?
[13:41] <gema> and people dump new code in the archive?
[13:41] <hggdh> jp_Hranice: not counting SRU validation/verification
[13:41] <hggdh> gema: not as easy, but yes
[13:41] <jp_Hranice> gema:  somebody post me testing ISOs are closed for Oreinick
[13:41] <jibel> gema, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
[13:42] <gema> jp_Hranice: what does that mean, for a newbie like me?
[13:42] <jibel> jp_Hranice, testing alpha 3 is over (since it is out), but not testing daily builds.
[13:43] <gema> jibel: thanks
[13:43] <jp_Hranice> jibel: ok thanks
[13:43] <jibel> jp_Hranice, you cannot report results to the tracker for dailies but you can still file bugs in launchpad.
[13:44] <jp_Hranice> jibel: It's understable.
[13:45] <jp_Hranice> daily snapshots are made from repositories ?
[13:45] <jp_Hranice> or I have to install entire Ubuntu
[13:46] <jibel> jp_Hranice, yes. they are built everyday from what is in the repositories
[13:47] <jp_Hranice> jibel: thanks
[13:47] <jibel> jp_Hranice, Ubuntu desktop daily isos are there http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
[13:48] <jp_Hranice> OK
[13:48] <jibel> for example today there is no new desktop image because probably there is some dependency issue in the archive
[13:48] <jibel> hm, gone :(
[13:48] <jibel> I'm feeling so lonely and depressed
[13:48] <hggdh> so am I...
[13:48] <jibel> :D
[13:49] <hggdh> got mesself into working on a MIR
[13:51]  * jibel trying to finish live session automated testing and wonders why there's no recursive directory copy in python that allows file overwrite.


[13:09] <mup> PR snapd#11146 opened: Restore snapd failover test <Created by mardy> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11146>


[00:38] <johnc4510> joey: http://people.ubuntu.com is that right?  I can't seem to access it...maybe it's not up yet?
[00:42] <tyche> It redirects to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeopleUbuntuCom
[00:42] <johnc4510> nods
[00:42] <johnc4510> hey tyche
[00:43] <tyche> Cats don't eat hay.  They may piddle in it, but not eat it.  Hee hee
[00:45] <johnc4510> more bathroom humor from the peanut gallery i see :)
[00:46]  * tyche throws peanuts at johnc4510.  Hee hee
[00:47]  * johnc4510 munches  hmmmmm
[00:47] <tyche> And you're not old enough to remember vaudeville
[00:47] <tyche> And barely old enough to remember Howdy Doody
[00:47] <johnc4510> oh i remember seeing clips....but you're right that was more your _age_
[00:47] <johnc4510> :)
[00:47] <johnc4510> i remember howdy doody
[00:48] <tyche> Of course.  And with great age comes great wisdom.  You don't beliee me?  just ask me, I'll tell you.
[00:48] <tyche> :-D
[00:48] <johnc4510> lol
[00:49] <tyche> You want a second opinion?  OK, You're ugly.  LOL
[00:50] <tyche> We need to do something about -news-teams mailing list.  It's starting to get spam.
[00:50] <nhandler> people.ubuntu.com is working fine. I've been using it a few weeks now
[00:50] <nhandler> i.e. people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler
[00:52] <tyche> "The requested URL /~tyche was not found on this server."
[00:52] <johnc4510> same here
[00:52] <nhandler> Did you put anything on them?
[00:53] <tyche> ??
[00:54] <nhandler> tyche: Did you upload any file to it via sftp ?
[00:54] <tyche> No
[00:54] <nhandler> It might not be active until you connect via sftp.
[00:54] <johnc4510> ah
[00:54] <johnc4510> thx nhandler
[00:55] <tyche> Hmmm.  Not particularly intuitive.
[00:55] <nhandler> They also never formally announced it. I only realized it was working by chance
[00:55] <nhandler> Actually, it looks like it is down completely. My site isn't loading either
[00:56] <johnc4510> k
[00:57]  * nhandler just went to ask about the issue
[00:59] <johnc4510> thx
[02:57] <nhandler> johnc4510: tyche: It looks like people.ubuntu.com is up and running again
[03:03] <tyche> Yea, I see.  Basically, it's an SSH drop box.
[03:04] <nhandler> tyche: Pretty much. It is just minimal web hosting for Ubuntu members.
[03:05] <tyche> I really don't think I have anything to put there.