[12:44] <Rosco2> Very quiet in here today!
[12:44] <Rosco2> Are we all busy testing the Beta 2 ISO?
[12:48] <zequence> Rosco2: I only did a smoketest of the i386. Doesn't seem like anyone else is doing any testing right now
[12:49] <Rosco2> Looks OK.
[12:49] <zequence> Yep
[12:49] <Rosco2> Upgrade from Trusty failed. Just trying from Wily
[12:50] <zequence> Seems like Xubuntu, Gnome and Vanilla all have problems upgrading
[12:50] <Rosco2> Had some issues with VMs not restarting after install
[12:51] <zequence> Yes, that has been an issue for a good while now
[12:51] <zequence> VirtualBox has that. Haven't tried other VMs
[12:51] <Rosco2> Will try one more test on hard metal, then I am done
[12:52] <zequence> My main concern during my test was I got no sound
[12:52] <zequence> But, haven't tried on hardware yet
[12:54] <Rosco2> Hopefully just a formality from here. Will wait to see if the others submit results
[12:54] <Rosco2> sakrecoer promised yesterday
[12:55] <cfhowlett> I couldn't get boot on my vbox.  failed to the shell
[12:56] <Rosco2> Did you do a checksum of the image?
[12:56] <cfhowlett> yep
[12:57] <sakrecoer> i'm on it now!
[12:57] <Rosco2> Virtual Box or other type?
[12:57] <cfhowlett> vbox
[12:58] <sakrecoer> live iso, fresh install and upgrade from 14.04
[12:58] <Rosco2> sakrecoer, excellent. The more we have the better
[12:58] <sakrecoer> wanted to do the first 2 yesterday, but it seems my family enjoys synching the casual 'break sakrecoer's nut' with tge testreleases
[12:59] <Rosco2> :-)
[12:59] <cfhowlett> well, that IS what family is for, yes??
[12:59] <sakrecoer> yes :) <3
[13:00] <Rosco2> cfhowlett, might be useful if you at least try spinning up the live session
[13:00] <cfhowlett> Rosco2, live session flew with no problem.  failed on reboot after install
[13:01] <Rosco2> Live session inside vbox?
[13:02] <cfhowlett> exactomundo
[13:02] <Rosco2> I found the same
[13:02] <flocculant> cfhowlett: that's unfortunately normal - has been for cycles and cycles
[13:03] <cfhowlett> grrr. OK then.
[13:03] <flocculant> kvm works
[13:03] <flocculant> I think vmware does
[13:03] <Rosco2> Little bit different for me this time though
[13:03] <Rosco2> On machine eventually restarted by itself after 45 minute approx
[13:04] <Rosco2> One machine
[13:04] <flocculant> Rosco2: upgrades - it's global afaik, you won't get 14.04 to 16.04 via update-manager
[13:04] <flocculant> via iso works - as does 15.10 both methods
[13:04] <flocculant> Rosco2: hah - they get about 20 seconds to reboot or I ignore the vbox issue :p
[13:04] <Rosco2> Found same for 14.04
[13:04] <sakrecoer> hmm... the  link to the iso 's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/Beta2/UbuntuStudio is broken
[13:05] <Rosco2> I had to have a cup of tea and annoy the family for a bit!
[13:05] <sakrecoer> oh... but... where is shte beta-2 ? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/16.04/
[13:05] <flocculant> sakrecoer: it's not been released yet :D
[13:05] <sakrecoer> ah.. :D
[13:06]  * sakrecoer slaps him self with a large bass
[13:07] <sakrecoer> maybe reading the carefully written instructions can help, maybe :D
[13:13] <flocculant> reading?
[13:13] <flocculant> is that a thing ...
[13:13] <flocculant> :p
[13:14] <sakrecoer> :D nono, it's just a boring alternative to pictures :D
[13:42] <sakrecoer> now i'm hospitalized like everyone else <3
[13:43] <sakrecoer> oh.. hehe wrong channel...
[13:45] <sakrecoer> (to my prides defense, context is available in #US-offtopic :p)
[14:09] <sakrecoer> when you guys say "smoke-test" what does that mean?
[14:10] <sakrecoer> adding "ubuntu" or "linux" to a google search doesn't give me any sensible result so to speak....
[14:21] <Rosco2> sakrecoer, We use the term at work for the type of test when you plug something in, turn it on, and see if smoke comes out
[14:22] <Rosco2> Here I think we just mean a quick test to see that it sort of works
[14:26] <sakrecoer> thanks Rosco2 ! :)
[14:31] <zequence> sakrecoer: In my case it means making sure booting and installing works, as well as jack with realtime is functional both in live and installed environments. I feel those things are required in order for me to make an ISO ready for release, which is something that Rosco2 does now instead of me.
[14:31] <zequence> I mean, he marks them ready for release. I still do smoketesting
[14:32] <zequence> But, as Rosco2 already explained. It is the minimal amount of testing to make sure something is functional.
[14:38] <sakrecoer> :)
[14:56] <sakrecoer> wuhu!! blueman has chilled out!
[14:57] <Rosco3> He has been bugging me for the last two days!
[14:57] <sakrecoer> i've seen the threads!! you rock Rosco3 !!!!
[14:58] <sakrecoer> kdenlive is back <3
[14:58] <sakrecoer> image magick fix didn't make it tho..
[14:59] <sakrecoer> should i repport bugs listed in the "known bugs"?
[14:59] <Rosco3> No - but I think we can remove the duplicate icon in us-menu ourselves
[14:59] <Rosco3> I mean yes to re-reporting
[14:59] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[15:00] <Rosco3> I meant no to imagemagick not making it
[15:00] <sakrecoer> if i've understood OvenWerks right, it should be possible to simply hide the icons via the desktop file.
[15:00] <Rosco3> Making the menu item work is now a much sinpler patch that will hopefully be uploaded soon
[15:00] <sakrecoer> and since it works great when started from cli...
[15:00] <sakrecoer> ah ok! wow great!
[15:02] <Rosco3> Hiding the icons in the desktop file is the right fix for others e.g. Xubuntu
[15:02] <sakrecoer> ok
[15:02] <Rosco3> But if it doesn't happen we can fix it for ourselves
[15:02] <sakrecoer> hm. for some reason i can't find the command to start imagemagick from cli anymore..
[15:02] <Rosco3> display
[15:03] <sakrecoer> \o/
[15:03] <Rosco3> strange name
[15:03] <sakrecoer> yes. was it always that name?
[15:04] <Rosco3> not sure - probably
[15:05] <sakrecoer> defo lefthand path application :D (reffering to arrow that changes orientation)
[15:06] <sakrecoer> oh wow! now blender starts jack as soon as you set it as audio engine!
[15:07] <sakrecoer> zequence: we have a dark taskbar, but bright windows, is that something we want, or something on the todo list?
[15:10] <sakrecoer> Rosco3: do you know the cli command for the "theme configuration" in the settings?
[15:11] <sakrecoer> it has no effect even after i restart xfce4-panel
[15:12] <sakrecoer> well, it has effect on the panel, just not on the whisker menu
[15:13] <zequence> sakrecoer: The theming of the desktop is not something we have been working a lot on since we went away from Gnome2. It's not our own theme.
[15:14] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you want to work at that, please do
[15:15] <zequence> sakrecoer: Maybe the whisker menu updates only between logins, or you need to remove it and add it again
[15:16] <zequence> Rosco3: You can probably mark ours ready whenever. Doesn't seem like there's anything else to be done. I'll be going out now
[15:16] <zequence> ..doesn't hurt to do more testing of course
[15:17] <zequence> (by whoever is already doing them, I mean)
[15:18] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you find any nice tweaks to the theming that works for us, we can upload those while we add a default wallpaper and stuff like that
[15:18] <sakrecoer> ok, i'll assign myself to that :) as far as i can see, it is mostely a matter of picking a different set of already available settings.
[15:18] <sakrecoer> ah! great! thanks zequence
[15:18] <sakrecoer> i'll match it to that wallpaper you produced zequence :)
[15:19] <zequence> I will probably wait another week at least with uploading the wallpaper. Need to start working on it now though
[15:19] <sakrecoer> ok! enjoy your afternoon, zequence!
[15:19] <zequence> My idea is that the theming could use something dark, but it also needs to be easily readable and functional
[15:19] <sakrecoer> yes, dark, please :)
[15:19] <sakrecoer> hehe..
[15:19] <sakrecoer> or all-bright
[15:20] <sakrecoer> not a bit of both
[15:20] <zequence> I use dark theming on my own setup, using Gnome3. I even use Stylish with Firefox to make lots of websites darker.
[15:20] <zequence> All bright doesn't get a vote from me
[15:20] <zequence> It's not nice for multimedia production
[15:20] <sakrecoer> me neither, nor does half-half
[15:21] <zequence> Isn't that more about your sense of taste, rather than fixing the theme to be good for multimedia production, as well as adhering to Ubuntu Studio artwork tradition?
[15:21] <zequence> Traditionally, the theme was dark, but with some bright areas
[15:22] <sakrecoer> what would be mroe my sense of taste?
[15:22] <zequence> Well, you said not mixing dark and bright
[15:22] <zequence> But, why is that bad?
[15:22] <sakrecoer> because it gives an impression of an unconsolidated layout
[15:22] <OvenWerks> Has anyone tested that qjackctl can not lock up the keyboard still?
[15:22] <zequence> I'd rather have everything dark myself. But, it also needs to be functional and readable
[15:22] <sakrecoer> or rather, a layout that hasn't been reflected uppon
[15:23] <zequence> sakrecoer: I'd say that is a matter of taste
[15:23] <zequence> It really depends on the design, IMO, if that works or not
[15:23] <sakrecoer> i think the taskbar should match the windows, but sure, we can have a different color for every elelemnt, that would be more in line with a mix
[15:23] <zequence> The taskbar is not a window
[15:24] <sakrecoer> the taskbar and the windows frame
[15:24] <zequence> IMO, that is a very subjective opinion from you
[15:24] <sakrecoer> so you prefer having the mix?
[15:24] <zequence> I can't see how you can make a rule against it
[15:24] <sakrecoer> i don't think it is possible to speak about colors without being subjective
[15:24] <sakrecoer> but its possible to speak about consistency in coulour without being subjective
[15:24] <zequence> But, I do think most graphic artist would prefer something a little darker over all
[15:25] <sakrecoer> "artist owld prefer" that is your subjective opinion, which happens to line up with mine
[15:25] <zequence> The taskbar is not a window. In other words, where is the consistency problem?
[15:25] <sakrecoer> well, there is  a drak bar in the top, that isn't matching with anything
[15:25] <zequence> It's matching with itself. Cause, there's only one taskbar
[15:25] <OvenWerks> zequence: bug# 1546328 does not show fix released and at my last test was still able to lock the desktop. This would be a ISO fail for me.
[15:25] <sakrecoer> ok, but the screen isn't just a taskbar
[15:26] <zequence> There's plenty of themes that do it that way. So, I really don't understand how you can make a rule about that
[15:26] <OvenWerks> bug 1546328
[15:26] <sakrecoer> i get the feeling you are missing my point zequence
[15:26] <zequence> OvenWerks: We will fix that bug before Final Release. That'll have to do for now, I think
[15:27] <OvenWerks> zequence: A locked desktop? will have to do?
[15:27] <OvenWerks> OK
[15:27]  * OvenWerks just woke up
[15:28] <sakrecoer> there are plenty of rainbow colored themes, they can look good according to personal taste, for sure. i'm talking about taste, i'm talking about consistency in the relationship between drak and bright elements on a screen
[15:28] <sakrecoer> i'm *not talking about taste
[15:28] <sakrecoer> anyways, back to testing
[15:29] <sakrecoer> but right now, it looks like there are 2 themes installed
[15:30] <zequence> sakrecoer: As said, there are plenty of themes that have dark taskbars, yet no dark borders on windows. You seem to dislike that, so that is a matter of taste for you
[15:30] <zequence> Gnome comes defaulted that way
[15:30] <sakrecoer> its not what i'm talking about
[15:30] <zequence> It's pretty standard, actually
[15:30] <sakrecoer> there are plenty of rainbow themes, and maybe i don't like them, but at least they are consistent
[15:31] <sakrecoer> but sure, if we want to have different colors for everything, lets vote about it!
[15:31] <zequence> That's not going to happen, I'm afraid
[15:32] <sakrecoer> then i don't get the point of everything you've written about it?
[15:32] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it is a bit late for that.
[15:32] <sakrecoer> i was just told it isn't..
[15:32] <zequence> Anyone can work on artwork, if they want, but I will make the final decision. Optimally we would have an artwork lead and specialized artist, but since we don't have that, I am the art lead, and everyone else is a graphic artist, if they want
[15:32] <sakrecoer> ... that is was just a matter of using existing options
[15:33] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: there is time to tweak things, but probably not to overhaul.
[15:33] <sakrecoer> iäm talking about tweaking, no overhaul
[15:33] <zequence> OvenWerks: He would only change theming settings
[15:33] <OvenWerks> Ack! zsync says I am only at 43%
[15:34] <sakrecoer> also, i happen to be a specialized graphic-artist with a mster degree from swiss design school... but sure, you are the art-lead with final word
[15:34] <zequence> sakrecoer: As said, you may work on it, if you want. I will review and decide - not based on personal taste, but on two parameters 1)functionality 2)relevance to Ubuntu Studio style
[15:35] <sakrecoer> i'd be interested in knowing how you can decide anything related to aestetics, without including any taste factor? but that is for offtopic :)
[15:35] <zequence> I have nothing else to use except my judgement, and since I'm the lead, I'm the one who has to suffer and do it :)
[15:35] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: from a user POV, I really like the window with focus to have a title bar that is visibly different from non-focus title bars. Perferably different colour such as grey and blue the way 14.04 is.
[15:35] <sakrecoer> but if you prefere to have it like this: yes, my taste says it is bad taste to have unmatching elements in a graphic chart
[15:36] <sakrecoer> oh, 14.04 is great yes!
[15:36] <sakrecoer> it follows our grahpic charts
[15:36] <sakrecoer> the current doesnt
[15:36] <sakrecoer> but lets drop it here, and pick it up after test :)
[15:37] <zequence> I'm not talking for the current theme. I'm talking against rules that evidently don't apply universally
[15:37] <sakrecoer> i'll propose a set of settings, and then you decide!
[15:37] <zequence> Sure, and anyone else can have their opinions too, and I will listen to them all
[15:37] <sakrecoer> i'm not talking about any universal rules, i'm talking about consistency to a graphic charts.
[15:38] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: the current trend is to only one full screen app at a time (part of convergence) so the colour of the title bar (if the title bar is even visible) seems to be always the same colour focus or not :P
[15:38] <zequence> Doesn't matter. Better if you make something and we can see the results
[15:38] <sakrecoer> :) perfect!
[15:39] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: yes, i've noticed that. it's a great way of reducing missmatching porblems and also maximise screensurface. but i don't think we can have it that way with xfce..
[15:41] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it is not about xfce vs: anything so much as development (sw or audio or video) aften requires more than one window at less than full screen to be useful. We are not making a distro aimed at web browsing like vanilla.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: we are not doing convergence, we are creating a working environment for art development.
[15:43]  * OvenWerks goes and makes breakfast for the family
[15:49] <sakrecoer> sure, i'm alligned to what you say OvenWerks. as a blender fanboy, i'm forced to live with that type of missmatch
[15:50] <sakrecoer> however, the only way to take a non-taste based decision in this case, is to take a group decision.
[15:51] <sakrecoer> and the way it looks now, looking at our color chart, goes against everything i've learned about functional design, and chart consistency
[15:51] <sakrecoer> the blue windows were a much better move, looking from the current charts persepctive
[15:52] <sakrecoer> atm we don't have a dark theme, we have a drak taskbar
[15:58] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I'll look when I have an ISO to play with :)
[16:00] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: :) i understand i might appear to be slightly burning for the issue, and it's partialy true. that being said, i'll create a proposition, and will happy live with it being downvoted :)
[16:03] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: no worries, if it looks good at all, it will just get merged.
[17:07] <Rosco2> Marked Ubuntu Studio as ready
[17:08] <Rosco2> Looks like in the release team there are problems with grub making working systems unbootable on EFI
[17:08] <Rosco2> May have respins and a delay
[17:47] <zequence> sakrecoer: There won't be a vote though. Just making that clear :)
[17:48] <zequence> Not when it comes to artwork. Doesn't work very well, since we don't really have an art department to do the voting
[17:48] <zequence> Rosco2: Oh, fun. Another smoketest required then..
[17:51] <sakrecoer> incredible! 3rd liveboot , blueman crash :(
[17:51] <sakrecoer> zequence: ok :) well, then we will have a decision based on your taste. it's fin thought.
[17:54] <sakrecoer> 'ubuntu-bug display' for imagemagick doesn't seem to produce a imagemagick repport
[17:56] <sakrecoer> ubuntu-bug imagemagick does anyway
[18:06] <zequence> sakrecoer: ubuntu-bug can only be used with packages. Sometimes difficult to know which package is in question
[18:06] <zequence> It's always 'ubuntu-bug <packagename>'
[18:06] <sakrecoer> yeah.. i don't have any clue as how to find a lead...
[18:06] <zequence> sakrecoer: Is this about a desktop file (starter in the menu)?
[18:07] <sakrecoer> ubuntu-bug krita brought me to calligra... i hope it is just the launchpad name
[18:07] <sakrecoer> yeah, i figured afterwards that i just need to put the number of already exisitng bug in the tracker
[18:08] <sakrecoer> i did mark that imagemagick bug as "affects me" though
[18:08] <zequence> sakrecoer: Probably the binary package krita is in the calligra source package
[18:08] <zequence> ubuntu-bug might redirect the source package
[18:10] <sakrecoer> ok, lets hope it was right, i did however picked the "don't know package" option and noted in the comment the problem was in krita and that ubuntu-bug bought me there.
[18:11] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you know the file, but don't know which package it belongs to, you can use dpkg to look for which package it belongs to. Like 'dpkg -S /bin/bash'
[18:12] <zequence> But, I do think krita has its own source package though
[18:12] <sakrecoer> ok :) nice!
[18:12] <zequence> sakrecoer: Another tool, which I don't know very well is apt-file.
[18:17] <sakrecoer> is it supposed to eb impossible to save files in a live-boot session?
[18:18] <zequence> sakrecoer: The filesystem is in RAM. You can download and change files, and all of that will be stored in RAM
[18:18] <zequence> You can add as much files as your RAM has space
[18:19] <zequence> But, you can't save in between boots. Not unless you make a special medium.
[18:24] <sakrecoer> ok.. strange thing is that i can't even write to the partition of my disk which isn't encrypted and is able to be mounted
[18:25] <sakrecoer> in apps, it doesn't show up as an entry, even after mount. in file manager, drag'n'drop, copy paste, none work
[18:28] <zequence> sakrecoer: Ok, so you are having a problem with mounting a harddrive?
[18:29] <sakrecoer> no, it omunts fine, i can open things from it. just not write
[18:29] <zequence> That could be worth adding a bug for
[18:29] <sakrecoer> s/omunts/mounts
[19:11] <sakrecoer> minesweeper? :D
[19:12] <sakrecoer> makes me shed an extra tear over audcious :D
[19:54] <sakrecoer> had to do some backup, but now i'm doing a fresh install. i'm connected to my wifi, my wifi displays in the list of install dialogue and password is correct. Yet "Download updates while installing Ubuntu Studio" is greyed out
[19:55] <sakrecoer> i'm guessing this is because, well, there are no updates since its the latest version
[19:55] <sakrecoer> if not, what is the installer called? so that i can file a bug about it..
[19:57] <flocculant> assuming that you *are* connected - that shouldn't be greyed out - ubiquity is the package to file against
[19:57] <sakrecoer> thanks flocculant! i'm writing from that computer, so i assume i *am* connected :p
[19:57] <flocculant> :)
[20:08] <sakrecoer> oh, doesn't really work as i expected.. i was thinking about installing over my dev partition.. but i can't figure how to do that in the custom installation type menu
[20:09] <sakrecoer> alongside shows my disk as being full...
[20:10] <sakrecoer> never mind that...
[20:13] <sakrecoer> strange... it want to allow me to install a third parition, but when i chose to install "along *them*" it display sda1 with different sizes from the current ones
[20:14] <sakrecoer> sda1 and sda2 that is...
[20:15] <sakrecoer> nah, this is too risky, if i kill sda1 i might as well wipe my brain too
[20:19] <sakrecoer> hmm... sda2 doesn't even show in the custom installation type..
[20:23] <sakrecoer> i'll do a full backup then... need to get my hands on a cheepass computer striclty for dev things...
[20:24] <sakrecoer> i fail at test deadline again :'(
[20:35] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: was that you in #ubuntustudio ?
[20:46] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: yes
[20:46] <OvenWerks> qjackctl still fails the whole ISO.
[20:47] <OvenWerks> In other news... any one noticed a new entryu in settings?
[20:48] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no?
[20:48] <OvenWerks> Right at the bottom of the settings manager on the right it says "XFCE Panel Switch" This is fantastic!
[20:48] <sakrecoer> right! i saw some video about it!
[20:49] <OvenWerks> knome: pass on my thanks to whoever came up with that^^^.
[20:49] <sakrecoer> ah, and there the ubuntustudio settings got lost ...
[20:49] <knome> OvenWerks --> bluesabre
[20:49] <OvenWerks> If we were not going DE agnostic... I would be all for settings up a unique panel setup for workflows or even dual monitors.
[20:50] <OvenWerks> knome: Sounds right :) Anyway congrates.
[20:50] <knome> OvenWerks, thanks, and glad you like the stuff that gets oozed out of the xubuntu team :)
[20:51] <sakrecoer> yeah its great!
[20:51] <OvenWerks> I will certainly be playing with that on my system
[20:53] <sakrecoer> seems the one we use is "xubuntu modern"
[20:54] <knome> yes, that's the xubuntu default today
[20:56] <sakrecoer> yes, don't get me wrong about my earlier entries about the look: the look is great, i just think it doesn't quite fit what i understand is the US color chart
[20:57] <knome> i'm not getting anybody wrong :P
[20:57] <knome> US can do whatever they want, and nobody in xubuntu gets hurt really
[20:57] <knome> it's your product
[20:58] <sakrecoer> good :) i just felt an itch to express my respect for your work.
[20:58] <sakrecoer> "better safe than sorry"
[21:00] <knome> trust me, no need to apologize for changing stuff
[21:00] <sakrecoer> :)
[21:02] <knome> at least all of my contributions to FOSS are totally free to be ripped apart and modified to something else you like
[21:02] <sakrecoer> i kindof took that for granted. it was more in how i put things in the discussion with zequence
[21:03] <sakrecoer> anyways glad to have centered the dots over the "i" :)
[21:03] <knome> well it's open source... why would you not be able to take and modify it? :)
[21:04] <sakrecoer> exactly what i'm thinking. yet, if anyone would have read me as typing "crap is ugly" well, that can hurt, and it wasn't what i ment. at all.
[21:04] <knome> ;)
[21:05] <OvenWerks> The style has changed a few times in 1604 already...
[21:06] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: wants phasex-dark  ;)
[21:06] <sakrecoer> haha!!
[21:06]  * OvenWerks is walking on "thin ice"
[21:07] <sakrecoer> more like NOX
[21:07] <sakrecoer> but i don't like those funky stripes in NOX
[21:07]  * sakrecoer falgging with 777% taste based opinions
[21:08] <sakrecoer> *flagging even
[21:12]  * OvenWerks switches to focus follows mouse
[21:15] <OvenWerks> Oh, this version of Ardour is pre tabs.
[21:17] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: tabs?
[21:18] <sakrecoer> i struggöe to imagine where they would be handy
[21:18] <sakrecoer> struggle*
[21:18] <OvenWerks> I was just setting the version straight in my mind as I generally buld from git head quite often.
[21:21] <OvenWerks> This version of guitarix plugin does not mess with the colours of the plugin host \o/
[21:21] <OvenWerks> (that means I can even use it.
[21:24] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: setting->window manager->style. Default, daloa, MurrinaBlue, Kokodi all look better to me than Greybird.
[21:26] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: of all the above default is the closest to what we have now.
[21:26] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: dalao is new to me, but yes, i tend to prefere compact window headers
[21:27] <sakrecoer> but i understand it can be annoying for people with pen tablets or shaking hands
[21:28] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Greybird the focus window and non-focus windows look pretty much the same
[21:28] <knome> i wouldn't use a computer while shaking hands
[21:28]  * knome hides
[21:28] <sakrecoer> i think we shoudl stick to ubuntustudio-blue windows however.
[21:28] <sakrecoer> haha :)
[21:28] <OvenWerks> knome: my computer has no hands...
[21:28] <knome> OvenWerks, but it has legs? woo
[21:28] <knome> :)
[21:28] <OvenWerks> infested with keyboards though.
[21:29] <sakrecoer> sadly, i think many people buy computers only to shake their hands
[21:29]  * sakrecoer hides
[21:29] <knome> >__<
[21:30] <OvenWerks> I think many wring their hands.
[21:30] <sakrecoer> true!
[21:37] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: please if you try different themes at least start ardour to see what it looks like as it is sensitive to themes.
[21:37] <OvenWerks> qtracktor just crashed... open but idle on changing themes.
[21:38] <sakrecoer> what do you mean by sensitive?
[21:39] <OvenWerks> zequence: when you put together the background if you can see what it looks like on dual screen.
[21:39] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: changing the theme makes some panels unreadable.
[21:40] <bluesabre> OvenWerks, knome: originally ali1234, I just added a gui and fixed some bugs on top of xfpanel-switch
[21:41] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: thanks anyway, it is a great idea, I would almost move it out of settings and put it in the favorites
[21:42] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: if you say added GUI does that mean I can do things CLI?
[21:42] <bluesabre> OvenWerks: its not directly exposed, but all of the important bits are in their own file
[21:43] <bluesabre> so many with minor tinkering
[21:43] <bluesabre> *maybe
[21:43] <OvenWerks> I'll look but the gui works just fine too.
[21:44] <sakrecoer> hmm.. still on my live-iso boot, i get this line poping up in my terminal: (process:22226): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_path_get_basename: assertion 'file_name != NULL' failed
[21:44] <sakrecoer> even tho i'm connected to a server with ssh
[21:44] <OvenWerks> I normally use two panels, main and a vertical one on the second monitor.
[21:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: I am looking at the cosmicstudio background which actually works very well spread across two displays except the logo is cut in half of course, but the words Ubuntu studio cut the u in half because ubuntu is a longer word. Using two spaces would fix that while still allowing the whole thing to be centred.
[21:49] <sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: the wallpaper zequence did looks like this on dual screen: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/image20160219_072401141.jpg
[21:49] <sakrecoer_> almost... the picture is admitedly crap :D
[21:50] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: those are two different screens so it would be odd anyway. I have mine set to spanning screens.
[21:51] <sakrecoer_> haha! you poshypunk you! "different screen" minding my dumpster treasures?
[21:51] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: mine are cheapy $80 walmart specials.
[21:51] <sakrecoer_> ah, spanning... well, id that had to be taken in account, you couldn't place anything near the middle
[21:52] <sakrecoer_> s/id/if
[21:52] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: lopps off the top and bottom too.
[21:52] <sakrecoer_> idealy, a scare in mirror repetition :)
[21:52] <sakrecoer_> square...
[21:52] <sakrecoer_> my fingers and my brain are giving up for today
[21:53] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: we didn't have the choice of spanning last I remember.
[21:53] <sakrecoer_> do we now? i haven't investigated... that machine in the picture is not for developing
[21:53]  * OvenWerks is trying out all the new stuff he can find.
[21:54] <OvenWerks> yes we do.
[21:54] <sakrecoer_> great! also great that you hard test! :)
[21:56] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I have three or four extra 20g partitions on my machine that I use for testing.
[21:57] <sakrecoer_> i wanted to do that too, but it seems the dev environment did something funky to my disk when i installed it
[21:58] <sakrecoer_> fdisk -l : Partition 2 does not start on physical sector boundary. Partition table entries are not in disk order.
[21:59] <sakrecoer_> so the installer detects the environment on sda6, but wants to put the new one on sda2
[21:59] <sakrecoer_> i'm backing up all my sda1 one atm, but the ETA is still oscilliating between 12 and 11 hours :(
[22:08] <sakrecoer_> my irssi is down.. i need a break anyway. read you later
[22:32] <OvenWerks> oK Audio and midi work, I can record tracks with Ardour (jack backend)
[22:36] <Len1> pidgin is not the greatest irc client I have ever seen
[22:37] <Len1> It is nice to have something that covers so many different protocols... but irc does not even have a channel search function.
[22:46]  * sakrecoer wonders if OTR in pidgin would work over irc
[22:46] <OvenWerks> OTR?
[22:47] <sakrecoer> its a plugin. Off The Record
[22:47] <sakrecoer> encrypts your chats basicaly
[22:49] <OvenWerks> That would be kind of rude.
[22:49] <sakrecoer> good for speaking to lover over gtalk without having google giving you adds to "buy her/him a ring"
[22:49] <Len1> I was going to say ok in a PM I guess
[22:51] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks = Len1 ? :)
[22:52] <OvenWerks> Ja
[22:52] <sakrecoer> vad bra!
[22:52] <OvenWerks> I am trying out irc clients.
[22:52] <OvenWerks> Just found out we don't have synaptic any more :P
[22:53] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: but we have mines! :D
[22:53] <OvenWerks> Just one more app I have to download off the top.
[22:54] <sakrecoer> so synaptic is still developed?
[22:54] <OvenWerks> Why is synaptic listed as nonfree?
[22:55] <OvenWerks> I don't know if I care. It is so useful as a distro dev...
[22:56] <sakrecoer> i liked it too in the sense i felt it was a good compromise between cli and software center
[22:56] <sakrecoer> but how is it especialy good for a distro dev?
[22:56] <OvenWerks> SC does not tell you waht it is doing
[22:58] <OvenWerks> SC does not tell you that BTW I am uninstalling a whole pile of SW because you are in stalling libjack-dev instead of libjack-jackd2-dev just as an example.
[22:59] <OvenWerks> synaptic always shows which packages are being installed/removed. It also allows you to view depends both ways as well as a list of all files installed and where they are.
[23:02] <sakrecoer> fair enough.
[23:06] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: there have been people who have accidentally removed most of their audio SW from SC
[23:06] <sakrecoer> that is so strange when i think of it: why would installing something require removal of something else?
[23:07] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Synaptic also passes package options through to the user while installing. We get more trouble from badly installed jackd for this reason (jackd package asks the user should I install this realtime?)
[23:07] <sakrecoer> ok: conflicts, but shouldn't that be problematic only if conflicting sw is ran simultaneously?
[23:08] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: installing jackd1 one removes jackd2 and all sw that relies on jackd2.
[23:08] <OvenWerks> Even though jackd1 has a replaces jackd2 in it.
[23:09] <OvenWerks> It is possible to replace jackd2 with jackd1 manually from CLI but you have to know what you are doing.
[23:10] <OvenWerks> It involves doing download only and knowing the right cli switches.
[23:10] <OvenWerks> wine uninstalls some video drivers too.
[23:12] <OvenWerks> wine also installs a ton of 32 bit libs on a 64 bit install. It also switches the location of many libs to handle dual architecture... which puts lv2 plugins in a non-standard directory so the user has to manualy tell the plugin host where to look.
[23:13] <sakrecoer> wine make me want to whine
[23:13] <OvenWerks> wine is wonderful SW. I think...
[23:13] <sakrecoer> so is XP... (not)
[23:14] <OvenWerks> I don't think there is any winos I enjoyed.
[23:14] <OvenWerks> wine allows people with expensive VST plugins to use them in linux.
[23:14] <OvenWerks> Look up avlinux.
[23:15] <sakrecoer> they and their wallet would be better off writing an email to the devs of their favourite expensive vst questioning the reasons as to why they don't produce a -deb
[23:15] <sakrecoer> i'm utterly uninterested in wine, but if you can tell me more about it in offtopic if you want :p
[23:16] <OvenWerks> I've already said all I needed
[23:18] <sakrecoer> :)
[23:18]  * OvenWerks is writing a bug that synaptic is missing
[23:19] <knome> OvenWerks, please don't write any more bugs into synaptic :P
[23:19] <OvenWerks> knome: why?
[23:19] <OvenWerks> it is a bug that we don't include it.
[23:20] <knome> oh
[23:20] <knome> i thought you were going to introduce a new bug in synaptic ;P
[23:20] <OvenWerks> knome: it is the best gui installer we have.
[23:21] <OvenWerks> Anything else I have tried is broken.
[23:21] <knome> actually i'm usually just kidding. take my comments with a load of salt and as if they were jokes :P
[23:21] <sakrecoer> what time is it where you at OvenWerks ?
[23:21] <OvenWerks> 1621
[23:22] <sakrecoer> :)
[23:22] <OvenWerks> We are -700
[23:26] <OvenWerks> Bug #1561776
[23:41] <zequence> OvenWerks: I would much rather you took that up with Xubuntu, since we sync with them
[23:43] <zequence> It's not a bug that we are missing something that is not already in Xubuntu, so to speak
[23:43] <zequence> ..when it comes to the desktop meta
[23:43] <OvenWerks> I don't know that I should tell xubuntu what to include. I thought you were talking about an extra desktop package to make sure we have things like this.
[23:44] <knome> xubuntu will not ship synaptic
[23:44] <knome> i though studio was mostly syncing desktop settings and themes anyway, not package metas
[23:45] <OvenWerks> knome: I didn't think so, it doesn't really make sense
[23:46] <knome> yep.
[23:46] <zequence> We are syncing the Xubuntu desktop, pretty much as it is. We also have additional multimedia metas
[23:46] <knome> zequence, even applications?
[23:47] <zequence> It's a little bit late to start working on our own DE setup a month before Final Release
[23:48] <OvenWerks> If it doesn't make it, thats fine, it is not a show stopper
[23:48] <zequence> knome: You mean, if we are syncing the desktop applications? Yes, our desktop seed is pretty much identical to Xubuntus
[23:48] <knome> zequence, that sounds a bit weird, but ok :)
[23:49] <zequence> It's in line with our goal to become desktop agnostic, so not very weird at all
[23:50] <zequence> The next step is to base entirely on other DE flavors, but a ubiquity plugin is required for that, aside from smart setup basing on other flavors metas
[23:50] <OvenWerks> Ya we don't have parted anymore either
[23:50] <OvenWerks> sorry gparted
[23:50] <zequence> This is why I proposed for us to have a new package called -desktop-common, so that if we absolutely need some packages, no matter which DE we are on, we can put those there
[23:52] <zequence> Had it been so that someone was actively maintaining our desktop setup, it might have been that we had not synced with Xubuntu at all.
[23:52] <OvenWerks> Thast the package I was talking about yes :)
[23:52] <zequence> But, since no one has been interested, this is where we are now
[23:54] <zequence> Even if we are desktop agnostic (allowing the user to install whichever DE they want), it is quite possible for us to have our own default DE setup, specific for multimedia production as one of the many choices
[23:54] <zequence> But, to have that - someone needs to put some love into that
[23:58] <zequence> And, that won't be me
[23:58] <OvenWerks> right. ok.


[02:08] <lifeless> \o/
[02:08] <lifeless> 10000  OOPS-fb8c41fc98e9a541a1175a570450f288  Unknown
[02:08] <StevenK> wgrant, wallyworld_: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/auditor-on-packageupload-reject/+merge/119291
[02:08] <lifeless> StevenK: how goes auditor ?
[02:09] <StevenK> lifeless: Still wondering what the next step is.
[02:09] <lifeless> go on
[02:11] <StevenK> lifeless: So we have auditor, its fixture, its client and now two callsites in LP
[02:12] <lifeless> is there a staging auditord yet ?
[02:12] <StevenK> Nope
[02:15] <StevenK> lifeless: So I guess we need to plan to deploy auditor for staging/qas and then slap it into an RT.
[02:15] <lifeless> yes.
[02:15] <lifeless> this might be a good time to do the refactoring I blathered on about
[02:16] <StevenK> Oh? :-)
[02:16] <lifeless> voice?
[02:17] <StevenK> Skynet? Mumble?
[02:17] <lifeless> the robots are coming!
[02:19] <lifeless> (skype)
[02:20] <StevenK> Right, let me get that set up
[02:29] <StevenK> lifeless: Apparently, you're red
[05:12] <StevenK> lifeless: Firebug is making Firefox do the crash-restart-crash loop
[05:15] <nigelb> StevenK: use in-built dev tools
[05:15] <StevenK> Oh, is that what Mozilla is trying to tell me?
[05:15] <StevenK> And now it's lost my session details
[05:15] <StevenK> I guess it got too embarrased
[05:16] <nigelb> lol
[05:16] <StevenK> Maybe I'll just switch to Chrome
[05:18]  * lifeless thought firebug *was* the built in dev tool
[05:19] <StevenK> Haha
[05:19] <nigelb> There's been built-in dev tools for ages in Firefox now. And it's been getting really good.
[05:19] <nigelb> Whoosh. Missed the irony.
[05:34] <micahg> StevenK: bug 1025011
[05:34] <_mup_> Bug #1025011: Firebug extension causes firefox to crash (can be triggered by opening HUD) <verification-done> <verification-needed> <Mozilla Firefox:Confirmed> <Global menubar extension:Fix Committed> <firefox (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <firefox (Ubuntu Natty):Fix Committed> <firefox (Ubuntu Oneiric):Fix Committed> <firefox (Ubuntu Precise):Fix Committed> <firefox (Ubuntu Quantal):Fix Released> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025011 >
[05:35] <StevenK> Handy
[05:35] <micahg> so basically, Chris fixed it, but the next firebug update discovered another latent bug in the code
[05:36] <StevenK> wgrant: I don't understand the remaining 5 failures. :-(
[05:36] <micahg> StevenK: so, either use 1.14.0 with Firefox 14 in the release pocket, 1.14.1 with firefox in -proposed, 1.14.2 and you're on your own
[05:36] <wgrant> StevenK: 'sup?
[05:37] <wgrant> StevenK: This is the testbrowser upgrade?
[05:37] <StevenK> micahg: Or switch to Chromium in anger.
[05:37] <StevenK> Which I did.
[05:37] <StevenK> wgrant: Yah.
[05:37] <micahg> StevenK: and be open to lots of CVEs, have fun :)
[05:37] <wgrant> StevenK: What are the failures?
[05:37] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1144330/
[05:38] <StevenK> I've fixed the third failure in xx-person-subscriptions.txt, but I'm not sure about the first two.
[05:38] <wgrant> StevenK: goBack
[05:39] <StevenK> wgrant: Which is only in two of them
[05:40] <wgrant> :(
[05:40] <wgrant> goForward? :)
[05:40] <StevenK> None of them :-P
[05:41] <wgrant> logging-in.txt is pretty obvious
[05:41] <lifeless> micahg: which code is at fault ?
[05:42] <micahg> lifeless: globalmenu-extension
[05:42] <wgrant> xx-person-subscriptions.txt is odd
[05:42] <StevenK> Hm, Chromium doesn't want / for search :-(
[05:42] <lifeless> micahg: ah well, we knew it was hairy.
[05:42] <micahg> that's the other option, disable the globalmenu :)
[05:42] <wgrant> StevenK: Oh
[05:42] <wgrant> StevenK: Try to think through the xx-person-subscriptions.txt failure
[05:43] <wgrant> The first one, that is
[05:43] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm still trying to work out why you say logging-in.txt is obvious
[05:43] <lifeless> wow
[05:44] <lifeless> postgresql schema patch downtime -> the dev wiki page on live patching is 5th in google.
[05:44] <wgrant> StevenK: It's not using normal browser methods
[05:44] <wgrant> StevenK: It uses some OpenID thing
[05:45] <wgrant> lifeless: Indeed, we seem to have #5 and #6, from a couple of hopefully unbiased browsers.
[05:46] <wgrant> StevenK: So, the first xx-person-subscriptions.txt failure is because it's now sending a sensible Referer
[05:46] <wgrant> StevenK: The view uses Referer to set cancel_url
[05:46] <wgrant> So it now ends up on the right page
[05:46] <wgrant> Not the one it expects.
[05:46] <StevenK> Which I thought I removed in anger
[05:47] <lifeless> http://postgresql.1045698.n5.nabble.com/ChronicDB-Live-database-schema-updates-with-zero-downtime-td1901036.html
[05:48] <lifeless> also lol - 'ChronicDB is currently a private technology'
[05:48] <lifeless> moving right along
[05:48] <lifeless> have we done a second schema patch without slony now ?
[05:48] <wgrant> lifeless: No
[05:48] <wgrant> lifeless: Hopefully Colin will have one for us tomorrow.
[05:50] <StevenK> wgrant: logging-in.txt is making use of testbrowser to do stuff, it just uses the extra methods to parse what came back
[05:52] <lifeless> anyone remember the statistic from flacoste about velocity improvement from FDT ?
[05:52] <wgrant> StevenK: It passes the URL into consumer.complete, which looks a bit sus to me.
[06:03] <StevenK> wgrant: It does? Where?
[06:04] <wgrant> StevenK: In complete_from_browser
[06:05] <StevenK> Ah
[06:08] <StevenK> wgrant: So I guess xx-person-subscriptions.txt is the test expecting behaviour which is now fixed
[06:09] <wgrant> StevenK: The first failure, yes.
[06:09] <wgrant> The others I haven't looked at.
[06:19] <StevenK> wgrant: How does goBack break the other two?
[06:20] <wgrant> StevenK: I don't know.
[06:21] <wgrant> I don't even know if it does.
[06:21] <wgrant> But it seems very likely.
[06:21]  * StevenK sigh
[06:21] <StevenK> I broke buildbot
[06:26] <wgrant> That's not very nice of you.
[06:26] <wgrant> Oh
[06:26] <wgrant> I assumed that was local breakage
[06:26] <wgrant> My build just failed the same way
[06:26] <StevenK> I'm just about to land a testfix
[06:26] <StevenK> As soon as bzr push completes
[06:36] <wallyworld_> StevenK: wgrant: either of you guys adding the new Embargoed information type to the enum? i'll do it if no-one else is
[06:37] <wgrant> I'm not.
[06:38] <wgrant> Not sure it's worth adding yet, but maybe :)
[06:38] <StevenK> I'm swearing at testbrowser and buildbot
[06:38] <wallyworld_> i figured we'd need it done first so things could use it
[06:38] <wgrant> Well
[06:38] <wgrant> We should be sure it's going to work first
[06:39] <StevenK> We are still discussing it, so I'm not sure it's worth leaping yet
[06:39] <wgrant> I'm currently finishing off sharing policies for Proprietary.
[06:39] <wgrant> StevenK: Right.
[06:39] <wallyworld_> ok, i'll hold off. i thought we had agreed to do it
[06:39] <StevenK> wallyworld_: Do you also do "Ready, fire, aim" ?
[06:39] <wallyworld_> huh?
[06:40] <StevenK> As opposed to 'Ready, aim, fire'
[06:40] <wallyworld_> i must be slow today, don't get the reference?
[06:50] <lifeless> its slightly whacky humour
[06:51] <lifeless> the instructions called out by WWI officers - ready (guns loaded etc), aim - aim at the folk running across no mans land, fire - pull the trigger.
[06:51] <lifeless> StevenK is suggesting that you are doing (firing) before aiming (finishing the discussion).
[06:51] <lifeless> Personally, I think its a little harsh.
[06:59] <wallyworld_> especially since i thought we had converged on a solution, but anyway
[07:01] <wgrant> wallyworld_: We hopefully have, but eg. mrevell was still unclear about it on Friday
[07:01] <wgrant> And it probably needs to be confirmed with PES
[07:01] <wgrant> The solution evolved on the Friday call, and Curtis was away on his Friday, so it hasn't had much chance to settle.
[07:01] <lifeless> should I put my nose in a little?
[07:01] <wgrant> No.
[07:02] <wallyworld_> if you want
[07:02] <wallyworld_> wgrant: there was a card on the board in the next column, hence my thinking we had agreed to it also
[07:03] <wallyworld_> if it's not final, we shouldn't put the card up yet :-)
[07:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Bah
[07:03] <wgrant> True
[07:03] <wgrant> I put that there :)
[07:03] <wgrant> It's agreed, but not final.
[07:03] <wallyworld_> np, glad we could clarify
[07:03] <wgrant> And mrevell appears concerned
[07:04] <wallyworld_> oh? is there an email i missed?
[07:05]  * wallyworld_ has to go to soccer, back later
[07:06] <wgrant> Well, just the steps to sharing beta one. It seems nobody outside the team is clear on what's happening.
[07:06] <wgrant> we'll see over the next couple of days, I expect
[07:16]  * StevenK stabs Unity
[07:16] <StevenK> Firefox crashes, and brings up a crash dialog, so you click Restart and then Unity loses track of the main Firefox window until you fiddle with the dock
[07:23] <adeuring> good morning
[07:40] <StevenK> lifeless: You missed a failure -- we tickled a bug in Slony when we dropped a column, so the sequence was killed and Slony got very unhappy with the world.
[07:41] <StevenK> lifeless: Unless that's what you meant with two tables at once? We didn't drop the tables, we dropped their id columns.
[07:46] <wgrant> I believe that's the failure to which he referred in his reply
[07:46] <wgrant> Although misstating it, as you say.
[08:17] <lifeless> StevenK: bah, you are right.
[08:18] <StevenK> lifeless: Now you can edit your blog post and thank me. Or something.
[08:24] <wgrant> Oh, there's a blog post?
[08:24] <wgrant> Ah, there
[08:25] <czajkowski> where..
[08:25] <wgrant> http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/minimising-downtime-for-schema-changes-with-postgresql/
[08:25] <czajkowski> ahh
[08:54] <lifeless> StevenK: or I can let it stand wrongly vague :P
[08:54] <StevenK> lifeless: "Or something."
[08:54] <lifeless> :)
[09:01] <czajkowski> lifeless: StevenK wgrant anyone any thoughts on https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg09565.html
[09:05] <StevenK> Yes. None are printable.
[09:05] <cjwatson> wgrant: Thanks.
[09:25] <lifeless> czajkowski: blueprints are for summit basically
[09:26] <lifeless> czajkowski: so 'just for summit' is sufficient as an answer
[09:26] <lifeless> czajkowski: though there may be a deeper question that isn't clear yet
[09:28] <lifeless> StevenK: wgrant: so we dropped the id column from one or two tables ?
[09:28] <czajkowski> lifeless: I suspect cjohnston is working on summit stuff and wants to make a change, but hasn't explained what besides wording
[09:32] <lifeless> czajkowski: I share your suspicion.
[09:33] <czajkowski> lifeless: which doesnt help get him an answer either :/
[09:33] <lifeless> czajkowski: and thus noone has answered ;)
[09:33] <ev> Presumably I should be using ETags and gzip when communicating with Launchpad from another webservice, right? Anyone know if a thread-safe alternative to httplib2 for that?
[09:34] <lifeless> httplib2 is threadsafe with the patch jml did, we think.
[09:34] <ev> oh awesome
[09:34] <czajkowski> lifeless: true, I'm just following up on stuff from my week off
[09:34] <lifeless> s/thread/concurrency/
[09:35] <jml> ISTR someone pushing for a release and getting it into 12.04
[09:36] <cjwatson> I was asking for one
[09:36] <cjwatson> But wasn't that lazr.restfulclient not httplib2?
[09:39] <wgrant> lifeless: We dropped an ID column from two tables.
[09:40] <lifeless> wgrant: replacing it with some natural PK ?
[09:40] <lifeless> s/it/them/
[09:40] <wgrant> lifeless: Right
[09:40] <wgrant> Dropping a serial column automatically drops the underlying sequence
[09:40] <wgrant> Slony automatically polls sequence values
[09:40] <wgrant> => slony broke
[09:41] <wgrant> The only ID columns we've dropped in recent history are BranchRevision.id and OAuthNonce.id
[09:41] <wgrant> And the latter wasn't replicated
[09:41] <wgrant> and I don't remember when we did BR.id
[09:41] <wgrant> So it's possible that this isn't a regression
[09:43] <lifeless> fark HUD.
[09:43] <lifeless> DIAF.
[09:43] <wgrant> What's it doing now?
[09:43] <lifeless> killing FF
[09:44] <wgrant> Ah
[09:44] <wgrant> Disable the globalmenu extension? :)
[09:45]  * cjwatson looks at database/schema/comments.sql and wonders how he's supposed to "keep [it] alphabetical by table"
[09:45] <wgrant> lalalalal
[09:45] <cjwatson> Should the first part of my branch be to sort it? :-P
[09:45] <wgrant> Well
[09:45] <wgrant> comments.sql is sort of dead to us now
[09:45] <cjwatson> https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess
[09:46] <cjwatson> Just saying
[09:46] <wgrant> Whether it should continue to exist at all is not exactly clear
[09:46] <cjwatson> "If you have removed or renamed a table or column, update database/schema/comments.sql."
[09:46] <lifeless> so, comments.sql is no longer applied in production.
[09:46] <wgrant> Right, comments.sql needs updating in that case or make schema will fail
[09:46] <wgrant> It doesn't say anything about adding new ones :)
[09:46] <lifeless> We need to move:
[09:47] <lifeless>  - comments.sql
[09:47] <lifeless>  - fti
[09:47] <lifeless>  - sampledata
[09:47] <cjwatson> wgrant: "Comments on new tables and columns need to be added to database/schema/comments.sql. "
[09:47] <lifeless> into the lazr.postgresql patch system
[09:47] <wgrant> Curses.
[09:47] <lifeless> and drop the LP one entirely.
[09:47] <lifeless> cjwatson: don't stress on the alphabetical, please do add comments until we transition.
[09:47] <cjwatson> In the short term should I just put COMMENT statements in the patch itself?
[09:48] <lifeless> no, comments.sql.
[09:48] <lifeless> it won't apply in prod, but we don't care.
[09:48] <wgrant> There was some discussion a while back about moving them to patches
[09:48] <wgrant> As we did with trusted.sql
[09:48] <wgrant> Have you dropped that idea?
[09:49] <lifeless> wgrant: not at all, just we haven't actually done it AFAICR, and unlike trusted.sql its not functional.
[09:50] <wgrant> Yeah
[09:50] <lifeless> StevenK: thanks for pointing that out. Updated.
[09:56] <mgz> what is this a symptom of does anyone know? can't get launchpad.dev to respond this morning...
[09:56] <mgz> 2012-08-13T09:55:34 INFO root Startup time: 9.164 sec real, 9.110 sec CPU
[09:56] <mgz> channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
[09:56] <mgz> channel 4: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
[09:57] <lifeless> could be rabbitmq not running ?
[09:57] <cjwatson> That's an error message from ssh
[09:57] <cjwatson> If that helps
[09:58] <mgz> ah, so I borked my ssh forwarding perhaps
[09:58] <mgz> will also poke the rabbit.
[10:11] <mgz> okay, so it seems nothing is actually listening on 8080, zope.server.http came up on 8085, not sure if that's normal, haven't got a log from when it was working earlier to compare against
[10:11] <mgz> ...or have I
[10:12] <mgz> hm, did that last time as well.
[10:12] <mgz> but 8080 is what used to work...
[10:14]  * mgz looks at apache setup
[10:14] <wgrant> mgz: The normal launchpad.dev Apache config listens on 80
[10:15] <wgrant> (and 443)
[10:15] <wgrant> 8080 is usually unused
[10:18] <mgz> well, apache is not running... >_<
[10:18] <mgz> what changed...
[10:19] <mgz> manually starting it and all is well
[10:20] <mgz> so close to not having to interveen, but need manual fixup too often, half the time it's me being dumb but this is too much of a pain
[10:21] <mgz> so, I think apache doesn't get added to the things that should be run on startup perhaps? install, use launchpad is fine, didn't come back after reboot...
[10:23] <cjwatson> lifeless: https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/queue-filter-source/+merge/119225 - I'd be happy to try running this on dogfood.  Is there a sensible way to extract a compiled version of the query there (some kind of profile mode or something) or do I have to work it out by hand?
[10:26] <wgrant> cjwatson: bzr merge lp:~cjwatson/launchpad/queue-filter-source
[10:26] <wgrant> make initscript-stop initscript-start
[10:26] <wgrant> Browse :)
[10:27] <wgrant> Ah, but you won't get in-page query logs unless you're in ~launchpad...
[10:27] <cjwatson> And look at dogfood-nohup.out or something?
[10:27] <wgrant> You could change the feature flag to allow you too :)
[10:27] <cjwatson> Oh right.  I could add myself to ~launchpad on DF :P
[10:27] <wgrant> The visible_render_time flag shows a partial query log at the end of the page
[10:27] <wgrant> Or that, yes
[10:27] <cjwatson> How about API queries?
[10:28] <wgrant> Good luck with that :)
[10:28] <wgrant> Can't even use ++oops++ with the API
[10:28] <wgrant> Perhaps use LP_DEBUG_SQL=1 bin/harness?
[10:28] <cjwatson> Actually I guess DistroSeries:+queue lets me do basically the same query, so not necessary in this case
[10:28] <wgrant> Yeah
[10:28] <wgrant> That's what I assumed you'd test
[10:39] <Ergo^> morning
[12:04] <czajkowski> blue - jam jelmer mgz vila https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1035338
[12:04] <_mup_> Bug #1035338: An unexpected error has occurred while updating a Launchpad branch <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035338 >
[12:05] <mgz> just jam/mgz czajkowski :)
[12:05] <czajkowski> ah ok
[12:05] <czajkowski> thanks
[12:16] <mgz> czajkowski: that oops won't load for me, just spinns during lookup, but have responded on the bug
[12:24] <Ergo^> morning
[12:43] <cjwatson> Hmm.  Upgrading dogfood says:
[12:43] <cjwatson> lazr.config.interfaces.ConfigErrors: ConfigErrors: database does not have a auth_master key.
[12:43] <cjwatson> database does not have a auth_slave key.
[12:46] <cjwatson> Something to do with r15782 I guess
[12:47] <cjwatson> ah, the dogfood config needs to be updated
[12:48]  * cjwatson will sort it out
[12:56] <jam> mgz: I did eventually get the oops to load, though I did it by going to oops.canonical.com directly and then doing a search from there (still took a while)
[12:56] <jam> interestingly, the content there is an XMLRPC Fault that contains yet-another OOPS
[12:56] <jam> xmlrpclib.Fault: <Fault -1: 'OOPS-394216d625e87559cda9d8b92d70b90f'>
[12:56] <jam> look at that one: https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-394216d625e87559cda9d8b92d70b90f
[12:56] <jam> It ends up as RequestExpired.
[12:57] <jam> I wonder if they hit downtime while he was trying to commit?
[13:00] <wgrant> jam: No, planned DB downtime does not result in timeouts.
[13:00] <jam> wgrant: even for bzr codehosting?
[13:01] <wgrant> The underlying OOPS (the RequestExpired) is from the appservers, not codehosting.
[13:01] <jam> this is a Request timeout in the Storm layer
[13:01] <wgrant> But yes, even for codehosting.
[13:01] <jam> now, it does seem to say that it was taking 7s to get a Feature flag looked up...
[13:01] <jam> which seems very odd
[13:02] <wgrant> Note also the 4s lookup for a person by ID
[13:02] <jam> yeah
[13:02] <wgrant> It's probably GIL contention or similar.
[13:02] <wgrant> The appservers are single-threaded, except not.
[13:02] <jam> Isn't that SQL time?
[13:03] <jam> Or the timing code has enough python in it to cause some time to be in python-land
[13:03] <wgrant> It's "SQL time"
[13:03] <wgrant> But measured by Python
[13:03] <wgrant> So if the interpreter doesn't run for 4s, it'll appear to have taken 4s longer.
[13:03] <wgrant> It's possible that it's connection latency or firewall breakage.
[13:03] <wgrant> But it's very similar to the behaviour we saw more frequently before we went to single-threaded* appservers
[13:04] <wgrant> (* each instance actually has two threads, one to serve webapp requests and the other to serve xmlrpc-private (this is xmlrpc-private), so there can still be contention)
[13:04] <wgrant> The only theory we have that does not involve persistent network flakiness is threading contention
[13:04] <wgrant> So threading contention is the going assumption.
[13:05] <wgrant> It's supported by the fact that we mostly see these on xmlrpc-private requests
[13:06] <wgrant> And xmlrpc-private requests are rarely CPU-intensive on the appserver.
[13:06] <wgrant> (so webapp requests have a smaller chance of being starved)
[13:06] <wgrant> Now
[13:06] <wgrant> 7s is pretty huge
[13:06] <wgrant> Bordering on implausibility, really
[13:07] <wgrant> But the 4s query afterwards means it wasn't just a momentary disruption
[13:07] <wgrant> We often just see the slow first query
[13:23] <cjwatson> benji: Could I have a review of https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/report-pcj-oops-2/+merge/119209 ?  I'd like to unstick the chain of work that's part of
[13:24] <benji> cjwatson: sure, but I'm on an interview call at the moment; it may be an hour
[13:25] <cjwatson> OK, thanks - I probably need to head to a more congenial network environment anyway
[14:35] <benji> cjwatson: review done
[14:53] <rick_h_> deryck: left the file as a .odg file and uploaded with images/set up.
[14:53] <rick_h_> deryck: let me know if you don't see it in the shared U1 folder
[14:59] <deryck> rick_h_, ok, will check here shortly
[15:11] <cjwatson> benji: thanks
[15:12] <rick_h_> congrats frankban
[15:17] <frankban> thanks rick_h_
[15:17] <mgz> how do I set a feature flag to default to on?
[15:18] <mgz> doc says should always use "enabled", but the current state is that enabled should be True
[15:18] <sinzui> mgz: feature flags are not truly bools
[15:19] <sinzui> We set the scope to "default" and add the string "on" to indicate we want everyone to get the feature
[15:19] <mgz> but the codebase must have some idea of which ones are on at present
[15:19] <sinzui> mgz we remove "on" to disable it. Any string will evaluate to True in that position
[15:19] <mgz> or all tests, and the testing config, set flags as needed?
[15:19] <sinzui> sure, we have a page for that
[15:20] <sinzui> https://launchpad.net/+feature-rules
[15:20] <sinzui> mgz: tests must set flags to use them. They are off in the test suite
[15:21] <mgz> ...so landing this will inevitably change the current state till someone sets the new flag on production?
[15:22] <mgz> and everyone's local test setups will also change?
[15:22] <mgz> (not that anyone will mind, I'd think, in this case)
[15:24] <sinzui> mgz: no one setup changes with the addition of a flad, nor does production. That is why we know bugs.dynamic_bug_listings is not finished. I have to enable it to see in in dev, and it must be on in production to see it. People only see the new feature because we enable it for them, or we remove the flags from the code
[15:25] <mgz> okay, so it's a bit of a hack using a feature flag for this then, but I'll trust that it's the most sensible option
[15:25] <sinzui> mgz, So reading back to what you first asked...the answer is feature flags cannot be default on because by their nature, they are incomplete.
[15:26] <mgz> thanks for explaining the details for me sinzui :)
[15:39] <mgz> hm, seems it's not possible to do boolean logic in a tal expression
[15:40] <mgz> | relates to path lookup, not evaulation of the objects found
[15:49] <sinzui> mgz: we use tales adapters to create bools. We also use "|Nothing" to safely adapt to false when an exception is raised
[15:51] <sinzui> mgz: what path do you want to know is true or false?
[16:30] <mgz> ...darn disconnects >_<
[16:31] <mgz> sinzui: basically I want to change not:view/user into not:view/user||not:features/app.root_blog.enabled
[16:31] <cjwatson> use python:?
[16:31] <sinzui> No
[16:31] <mgz> I think the shortest path to that is adding an attribute to the python class that contains that combination
[16:31] <sinzui> We do not want logic in the templates.
[16:32] <mgz> python: is bad because it makes everything after it python
[16:32] <cjwatson> fair enough, I'll shut up :)
[16:32] <mgz> can't just use it to do the boolean logic correctly on path lookups
[16:32] <sinzui> mgz, move the logic into the view so that we can write a unit test
[16:33] <mgz> right, that's pretty much where I'd arrived at. the test I've written is just looking at the html output
[16:33] <sinzui> mgz: tales makes testing hard, trying to make it support logic ultimately leads to more hours spent trying to test it
[16:33] <mgz> is there somewhere else I can do this that doesn't involve the databasefunctionallayer?
[16:34] <sinzui> mgz: I use view = create_initialized_view() then test the bool value of view.show_root_blob
[16:35] <mgz> I'll grep for some examples, thanks
[16:36] <sinzui> mgz, given the logic you tried to write, I think you want to add tests to LaunchpadRootIndexViewTestCase
[16:36] <mgz> that's where I've got 'em
[16:36] <mgz> still painful for tdd, with multi-second setup time for the layers
[16:37] <sinzui> mgz, You can try to write the test on the FunctionalLayer, but that wont be must faster
[16:39] <sinzui> ./bin/test -vvc -t LaunchpadRootIndexViewTestCase lp.app.browser.tests.test_launchpadroot
[16:39] <sinzui> will be the fastest command
[16:40] <mgz> oo, and colourful.
[16:41] <mgz> I've been using -m... apparently that's the same as just giving an arg?
[16:41] <sinzui> mgz, gary_poster told me no, passing the module path as the last arg is different and faster
[16:42] <mgz> ehehe
[16:51] <mgz> okay, this all looks workable
[17:07] <jml> sinzui:  './bin/test -vvc lp.app.browser.tests.test_launchpadroot  LaunchpadRootIndexViewTestCase' might be faster still
[17:07] <sinzui> oh
[17:07] <sinzui> I look forward to faster tests
[17:08] <mgz> when layer setup takes nearly 10 seconds, it's hard to see a difference...
[17:08] <sinzui> mgz :(
[17:09] <mgz> is there any distinction between `with anonymous_logged_in() as user: view = create_initialized_view(..., principle=user)` and just `create_initialized_view(...)`?
[17:09] <sinzui> mgz yes :(
[17:09] <sinzui> barry wrote the helper to ignore the user we alreay placed in the interaction with login...
[17:10] <mgz> if I want to test what someone sees if they arrive at launchpad.net with no cookies, which do I use?
[17:11] <sinzui> principal is rarely needed though. Generally principal is only needed when we render the view and the page renders the "logged in as" portlet
[17:11] <mgz> hm. hard to tell what's needed and what's cargo culting when using other tests as templates.
[17:12] <mgz> just using the minimum that works is tempting, but sometimes that ends up asserting useless things.
[17:13] <sinzui> mgz, you need to construct the request manually I think. The helper accepts an optional request object (which you may have already setup for the login user. Otherwise, the help will create it's own user and request
[17:16] <sinzui> mgz, actually, the default request has no cookies, so you do not need to create it
[17:17] <sinzui> mgz, if the method you wrote is looking at the self.request, pass the logged in user at the principal
[17:21] <mgz> hm, nope, test method I'm working from just goes getUtility, makePerson, login_person, create_intialized_view, call view to get result
[17:55] <jcsackett> sinzui: free to chat?
[17:55] <sinzui> yes
[17:55] <jcsackett> excellent.
[17:56] <jcsackett> invite sent.
[17:58] <sinzui> phone is being odd
[17:58] <sinzui> It know I got the invite, but says I am not logged in.
[17:58] <sinzui> something needs a whack upside the head
[17:59] <sinzui> jcsackett: hold on a moment
[18:00] <sinzui> Google doubts that I exist
[18:00] <jcsackett> sinzui: sure. i've cancelled the hangout so i can resend whenever.
[18:16] <lifeless> cjwatson: you can export LP_SQL_DEBUG (IIRC) to get queries logged to stdout, and then interactively fiddle around till you see the one yo want
[18:17] <lifeless> cjwatson: or you use ++oops++ if its a regular view to trigger an oops and get timing data; if you're in the right group (~launchpad) you'll get timing data on the initial queries in web views by default
[18:38] <rick_h_> deryck: ping, how we doing? I'm coming up on EOD in 30 and wanted to check in
[18:39] <rick_h_> benji: have a sec to look over https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/yuiv5/+merge/119406 sometime?
[18:39] <rick_h_> lifeless: this is per our conversation, if you know of a better way to do it via makefile magic appreciate feedback/tweaks. ^^
[18:44] <deryck> rick_h_, on call, just a minute sorry
[18:44] <rick_h_> deryck: np, knew it would be tough to get time today.
[18:45] <lifeless> deryck: o/ Did I miss our call ?
[18:45] <lifeless> deryck: oh no, its later today. Cool.
[18:56] <rick_h_> lifeless: once I get code review/approved I'll run through ec2 and see what goes boom (hopefully nothing)
[18:56] <lifeless> rick_h_: so that would be now ;>
[18:56] <rick_h_> lifeless: ah, missed you approved, just saw the comment
[18:58] <rick_h_> sinzui: ping, UI question for you.
[18:58] <sinzui> hi rick_h_
[18:59] <rick_h_> sinzui: just used the updated bug linking picker and the difference struck me a bit and wondered what you thought
[18:59] <rick_h_> most pickers have always been a find, click on it to select experience
[18:59] <rick_h_> when I just did that I ended up with my bug opened in a new tab, had to go back and look and notice a new "Link" button
[18:59] <sinzui> yes, that is odd
[18:59] <rick_h_> twisted me up, intentional?
[18:59] <rick_h_> or should I file a bug on the updated UI?
[19:00] <sinzui> wallyworld_: has been migrating the old widget to act like a picker, then actually be a picker
[19:00] <rick_h_> yea, why I wasn't sure what discussions might have gone on before I declare it a 'bug'
[19:00] <sinzui> I think the selecting the  item as you suggest is correct
[19:01] <sinzui> rick_h_: I agree we want to fix the behaviour
[19:01] <rick_h_> sinzui: ok, will file a bug and try to ping wallyworld_ on it in case it's just a staged update/etc perhaps.
[19:02] <sinzui> rick_h_: I think that was planned for actual searching...bug I have also not committed to searching since that is definitely beyond our need to have the choice secure
[19:02] <sinzui> thanks rick_h_
[19:02] <rick_h_> sinzui: sorry, not following on searching/choice secure?
[19:03] <sinzui> There is a request to let you search for the bug instead of enter a number
[19:03] <rick_h_> sinzui: ah gotcha.
[19:04] <sinzui> We are only changing the feature so users do not accidentally link the wrong bug.
[19:04] <rick_h_> ic, so I can understand the desire for a way to say "search bugs for something like this" and then want to open and make sure it's the bug you're thinking.
[19:10] <deryck> lifeless, yeah, I've got our call scheduled in about 2 hours.  Still good for you?
[19:12] <lifeless> yup
[19:14] <cjohnston> deryck, sinzui, gary_poster, lifeless... Could you guys take a look at https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg09569.html please and provide some feedback? I'm trying to make the interaction and expectations for the user more clear between Summit and LP.
[19:16] <deryck> hi cjohnston.  I saw it and marked it to reply.  But was hoping lifeless or flacoste would reply first. :)
[19:16] <cjohnston> lol
[19:19] <deryck> cjohnston, quick look at code and I don't see any use for us.  It's just a boolean flag basically, and likely only used by the summit system.
[19:20] <cjohnston> That's what I suspect, I just want to verify first. :-)
[19:20] <lifeless> cjohnston: it was added to let the predecessor to summit be told to not accept conflicts with other sessions for that (session,person)
[19:22] <cjohnston> So that also sounds like there shouldn't be anything that would block me from making text changes.
[19:23] <deryck> I think you're fine.  It's the sort of special casing we try to avoid these days, but since it's only the summit app using it anyway, I don't see the harm.
[19:24] <deryck> lifeless, do you feel strongly about it?
[19:24] <lifeless> about what?
[19:24] <lifeless> I don't know what cjohnston plans to do :)
[19:24] <gary_poster> the text change that cjohnston wants to make.
[19:24] <cjohnston> Just changing the text to better represent how Summit uses it
[19:24] <gary_poster> "I would like to change
[19:24] <gary_poster> the wording for the Participation Essential check box to something that
[19:24] <gary_poster> better explains a "very interested in this topic" instead of saying that
[19:24] <gary_poster> someone is essential for this topic."
[19:25] <lifeless> ah
[19:25] <lifeless> so AIUI that conflicts with how Canonical /uses/ it.
[19:26] <lifeless> If you're changing how summit uses it, that will need somewhat wider discussion - Launchpad doesn't care, but UDS / ODS / Linaro Connect organisers may.
[19:26] <deryck> I believe cjohnston is saying Canonical is changing how we use it.
[19:26] <cjohnston> How does Canonical use it? or does 'Canonical' mean UDS?
[19:27] <czajkowski> lifeless: cjohnston is developing for linaro/uds  he is one of the developers on summit
[19:27] <lifeless> czajkowski: I know cjohnston :P
[19:27] <lifeless> cjohnston: bit of column A, bit of column B.
[19:28] <lifeless> cjohnston: its used as I said - to guarantee that if person A is so listed for session S, that they won't have any conflict with any other session for which they are also listed as essential.
[19:28] <czajkowski> lifeless: :)
[19:28] <cjohnston> lifeless: but only with Summit, nothing else, correct?
[19:28] <lifeless> cjohnston: thats then used to arrange private meetings, to arrange topic thought leaders for particular sessions etc.
[19:28] <lifeless> cjohnston: yes, LP does not care about this flag. We would happily delete it entirely.
[19:29] <cjohnston> I actually am not opposed to that and just having it all inside of Summit ;-)
[19:29] <flacoste> cjohnston, lifeless: +1
[19:29]  * cjohnston wants to remove the LP requirement from Summit and just require SSO
[19:30] <cjohnston> We actually could remove the LP requirement in probably 2 weeks, but there is alot of fight from some people in Canonical for that
[19:30] <lifeless> cjohnston: what are their concerns?
[19:31] <cjohnston> lifeless: because blueprints are such an integral part of how things are done, they want to continue to use blueprints to create meetings instead of creating meetings in Summit and then creating a blueprint as needed
[19:34] <lifeless> why not have summit create the bp for them ?
[19:34] <cjohnston> is there an API to allow that?
[19:36] <lifeless> if there isn't there can be
[19:36] <cjohnston> I *thought* the last time that it was asked there wasn't, but I'm not positive.. but I'd be more than happy to use that if it was created. I don't have time to do the work tho
[19:37] <cjohnston> I could make it work on Summit tho
[19:42] <lifeless> cjohnston: it's not a lot of work to do.
[19:43] <lifeless> cjohnston: but the LP team is equally flat out; I suggest doing it yourself will avoid handofs and queueing, so its much better to do it than not to.
[19:43] <cjohnston> ya.. one day someone will add a few more hours to the day, then we can all do things to catch up
[19:45] <lifeless> cjohnston: mmm, what I mean is, if you're estimating 2 weeks to do this thing, and you can find the time to do that, your estimate is low because of the desire to use blueprints being unsatisfied.
[19:45] <lifeless> cjohnston: you need to allow (say) 2 days to add the API on the LP end to your estimate of the work involved.
[19:45] <lifeless> cjohnston: if that changes it from 'can do' to 'can't do' - fine. But its not a separate bit of work that can be ignored.
[19:46] <cjohnston> right... I could remove the LP requirement in 2 weeks... but yes, to make Summit create BPs it would take more time.
[19:52] <lifeless> flacoste: shall we ?
[21:00] <deryck> lifeless, hey.  Shall I start a hangout?
[21:03] <lifeless> sure, or skype - eithe ris good
[21:06] <deryck> lifeless, use: http://tinyurl.com/orange-standup
[21:06] <deryck> I invited too
[22:04] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: the new bug picker behaviour is currently "as designed". the bug link is blue (meaning a new page is opened) rather than green and there's also a "new window" icon, so it behaves like the regular picker in that sense if you were to open the details expander and click the blue person link
[22:09] <lifeless> gary_poster: thanks for the extra detail before, I had not see cjohnston's reply to the thread.
[22:10] <cjohnston> :-)
[22:26] <rick_h_droid> wallyworld ok but do we have any other pickers working like that?
[22:26] <rick_h_droid> if it's not a new inconsistency then cool but it struck me as something I'd not hit befire
[22:26] <rick_h_droid> bah
[22:26] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: no other picker only presents a single result. but the person picker has a blue "new window" link in each result
[22:27] <rick_h_droid> right but to pick a person I click on the results not the submit button right?
[22:28] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: it serves its purpose for disclosure, which is to allow to user a better chance of not accidentally choosing the wrong bug. any other work will have to be part of bug linking if we get to do that at some stage
[22:28] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: yes, for a person, you click the person. but here there is only one result so it's not a list as such
[22:28] <rick_h_droid> ok, well that was part of my asking. to understand the reasoning
[22:28] <wallyworld_> it's more a "did you really mean this one" type scenario
[22:29] <wallyworld_> rick_h_droid: i understand the question, it's perfectly reasonable
[22:29] <rick_h_droid> I just noticed a new 'interaction' unable and the UX side of me went off
[22:29] <wallyworld_> scope and time constraints prevent it being made "perfect" up front
[22:30] <rick_h_droid> np cool. thanks for the background
[22:30] <wallyworld_> rick_h_droid:  that's ok, i also share the concern about inconsistency, but we are unable to address it right now
[22:31] <rick_h_droid> ok maybe I'll get time to have some you I have fun during our feature work
[22:32] <rick_h_droid> ui that is
[22:32] <wallyworld_> maybe :-)
[22:32] <rick_h_droid> Don't hold my breath you're saying huh
[22:33] <wallyworld_> one never knows how these things will play out; best laid plans and all that :-)
[23:36] <wallyworld_> wgrant: any reason distros don't have bug/branch sharing policies?
[23:37] <StevenK> wallyworld_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1145896/
[23:38] <wgrant> wallyworld_: They should eventually, but they don't have BVPs/private_bugs at present, so it's not important for the migration or clear exactly how it would work.
[23:38] <wgrant> The UI will probably be identical.
[23:38] <wallyworld_> wgrant: cool, just wanted to confirm before i update the ui
[23:39] <wgrant> Yup
[23:39] <wallyworld_> StevenK: looks ok
[23:40] <StevenK> wallyworld_: Yes, reason I'm asking you is the comment and other ff tests
[23:41] <wallyworld_> StevenK: i don't think the doc tests check the include_description parameter
[23:42] <wallyworld_> the doc tests probably should be migrated to join the other unit tests at some point
[23:42] <StevenK> Right, I'm wondering if I care ...
[23:44] <wallyworld_> always good to delete doc tests :-)
[23:47] <StevenK> wallyworld_: I can't see ChoiceEdit in lazr-js-widgets.txt
[23:47] <wallyworld_> i think it's the vocab, let me check
[23:48] <wallyworld_> StevenK: look for EnumChoiceWidget


 Call the payments line listed on the letter, get a disconnected dialtone. Call the countil number directly, their call routing system is broken, no matter what you press, it just continually loops
[14:32] <Azelphur> so I call the emergency number listed on their website, apologise for calling the emergency number and explain that their entire call center is down, no matter what you select it doesn't respond
[14:32] <Azelphur> they inform me they are the emergency number for a completely different council and shouldn't be listed on my councils website \o/
[14:33] <zmoylan-pi> my personal best trying to contact an organisation was something like 5 dials as they had 1) changed the phone system to add a digit to the start of the number, 2) moved, 3) reoganised their departments 4) changed our companies status from small to medium so needed to contact a different department. 5) profit
[16:22] <knightwise> this is strange, i'm trying to reimage my dell xps13 and for some reasons none of the distros i tried (Ubuntu 16.04.2 and Mate) recognise the wifi card anymore
[16:22] <knightwise> this used to work out of the box.


[12:25] <mvo_> tepsipakki: do you mind if I upload xrandr 1.2?
[12:25] <mvo_> the cli thing
[12:25] <tepsipakki> mvo: it would be replaced soon :)
[12:25] <mvo_> with what?
[12:26] <tepsipakki> split packages from debian
[12:26] <mvo_> nice. then we can merge them from debian?
[12:26] <mvo_> or sync even
[12:26] <mvo_> how long will this take, what do you think?
[12:27] <tepsipakki> x11{-apps,-utils,-xfs-utils,-xkb-utils,-xserver-utils}
[12:27] <tepsipakki> yep
[12:27] <tepsipakki> that's the plan
[12:27] <tepsipakki> I've just tested upgrades
[12:27] <tepsipakki> with feisty
[12:27] <tepsipakki> oh, they will enter experimental this week
[12:28] <tepsipakki> I guess we can sync them from there, then adjust xorg a bit
[12:28] <mvo_> ok, great
[12:28] <tepsipakki> or wait until they are in unstable
[04:46] <ubotu> New bug: #116207 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (universe) "Macbook's Tv out doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116207
[08:00] <ubotu> New bug: #67188 in xkeyboard-config (main) ""Error activating XKB configuration." - Requires manual xorg.conf editing" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67188
[08:16] <ubotu> New bug: #116250 in xrdb (main) "[apport]  xrdb crashed with SIGFPE" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116250
[08:29] <ubotu> New bug: #116239 in xorg (main) "X crash at startup with IBM T22/savage s3" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116239
[08:30] <ubotu> New bug: #116251 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (main) "Can not switch off synaptics touchpad" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116251
[08:31] <ubotu> New bug: #53206 in xkeyboard-config (main) "In xorg.conf the "XkbModel" setting for Japanese jp106 keyboard is wrong" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53206
[08:51] <ubotu> New bug: #53794 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard (main) "ctrl+shift+(X) combos not working at all" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53794
[09:00] <ubotu> New bug: #116254 in xorg (main) "Xorg will not use restricted Nvidia driver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116254
[10:06] <ubotu> New bug: #116268 in xorg (main) "X.org 7.2 fails to load with fglrx/ati drivers with Radeon 9200" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116268
[10:41] <kylem> tepsipakki, bryce, i just uploaded -i810 and -intel modified so they can co-exist.
[10:41] <bryce> kylem: cool thanks
[10:41] <kylem> will push a new xorg metapackage that installs both with xserver-xorg-video-all once they're in the archive
[10:42] <bryce> kylem: will it be possible to have both installed at the same time?
[10:42] <kylem> yeah.
[10:42] <bryce> awesome
[10:42] <kylem> then i can crank discover-data and take a nap.
[10:42] <kylem> :)
[10:42] <bryce> hehe
[10:42] <bryce> really?  when did you get back?
[10:42] <kylem> last week.
[10:42] <kylem>  :\
[10:43] <bryce> yow
[10:43] <bryce> I didn't have a problem with jetlag, but I caught a headcold on the flight home.  Sucks to be me.  Sick twice within a week.
[10:44] <kylem> yow dude.
[10:52] <ubotu> New bug: #112198 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 (restricted) "Problem when changing user" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112198


[08:59] <hakermania> Hello guys, if a desktop file has as icon a very large image e.g. 2MB one it goes extremely slowly. Would it be a good idea to scale the image or it's a unity bug?
[09:51] <czajkowski> morning
[09:51] <czajkowski> I have one annoying unity bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/846903
[10:36] <htorque> czajkowski: you mean "upgraded _from_ natty", right? and: if that happens, can you still cycle through applications using alt+tab or is the desktop really frozen (frozen vs. stuck)? also, if you call the thing "alt tab switcher" it will be easier to understand. :-)
[10:52] <ephan> What is "Multi-Range" on Unity?
[10:59] <Andy80> hi
[10:59] <ephan> hey Andy80
[11:00] <Andy80> hi ephan :)
[11:01] <ephan> btw, I'm wondering if you know what "Multi-range" is on Unity?
[11:07] <Andy80> ephan: no, sorry :\
[11:08] <htorque> ephan: hm, from the changelog it sounds like that's something in the dash filters? maybe the size "multi-range" in the files lens?
[11:08] <ephan> Andy80, thanks. htorque, maybe "Multi-range" is a filter
[11:09] <ephan> In that case, my translation is ok. thanks!
[16:04] <czajkowski> htorque: sorry for not getting the right lingo! but yes I had upgrated from natty, and no I cannot get to any of the applications when that happens
[16:18] <htorque> czajkowski: ok, sounds pretty bad. :( unfortunately i cannot reproduce this, but i've taken the liberty to fix the terminology in your bug.
[16:19] <czajkowski> htorque: thanks
[16:19] <czajkowski> htorque: I mentioned t a few days ago and someone else said they;d had similar but it's takena few days to get apport to get working again for me to log the bug :/
[16:19] <czajkowski> it's one really annoying bug and it doesn't depend on amount or types of applications running
[16:20] <czajkowski> htorque: thanks for trying though
[16:20] <htorque> instead of rebooting you could do: alt+f1 to go to a tty, log in, run: (unity &), alt+f7 to go back to the session.
[16:21] <htorque> her might or might not be problems with click-through windows afterwards, but at least you should be able to save any unsaved work.
[16:22] <htorque> *there
[16:35] <czajkowski> htorque: will try that the next time but even holding down power button to bring up options to restart shut down wont work so have to hold it down to forcefuly power down
[16:42] <htorque> czajkowski:  that's the worst way to reboot, you should only do that if the system has completely frozen. if you need to reboot, try SysRq + REISUB first: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
[16:44] <czajkowski> htorque: it's the only way, the system won't let me do anyting else
[17:17] <AlanBell> does the ctrl+alt+prtscr reisub thing actually do anything better than holding down the power button if you have a journalling file system?
[17:30] <htorque> AlanBell: i'd say the sync part is a big pro as it forces a commit, but then: filesystem stuff is definitely not my area of expertise. :-)
[17:31] <AlanBell> generally I would have thought the time spent swearing at the frozen computer would have been enough for any lingering commits of importance to be written to the disk


[00:14] <ochosi> micahg: hey, i have a list of fixes/commits for gmusicbrowser now (we talked about backporting a few important ones to oneiric a few days ago)
[00:14] <ochosi> micahg: where would you want me to put them?
[01:48] <micahg> ochosi: we'll need 1 bug per issue with a test case, with one debdiff for all of them attached to one of the bugs
[05:38] <b__> anyone on?
[05:38] <b__> I'm not a dev, but I could use some help... even direction to a channel would be helpful....
[09:47] <knome> madnick, there is one thing i'd like fixed in plymouth this cycle
[09:47] <knome> madnick, that's the text not showing up properly, when plymouth hits fsck
[09:50] <ochosi> micahg: hm, it's three issues (google-image-search,overlay-scrollbar,mpris2-plugin), but the mpris2 has 6 commits or so, do we really need a separate bug for each of them?
[10:02] <ochosi> micahg: ok, i submitted bugreports as requested for google-image and overlay-scrollbar bugs, i subscribed you to them. please let me know about the mpris2 issue. thanks a bunch!
[11:57] <Pokemonacer> hello
[11:57] <Pokemonacer> @chanserve
[11:57] <meetingology> Pokemonacer: Error: "chanserve" is not a valid command.
[11:57]  * Pokemonacer Loves Linux
[12:00] <PokemonAcer> Ok
[12:01] <PokemonAcer> How About We Have.... A Little Mouse As The Cursor?!
[18:26] <leo-unglaub> hi,
[18:26] <leo-unglaub> in the current version of xubuntu the terminal looks a little bit strange
[18:26] <leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/mlcmhnl6/Auswahl_001.jpeg
[18:27] <leo-unglaub> is there a current open bug for that?
[18:27] <leo-unglaub> or should if opne an new ticket?
[18:29] <astraljava> leo-unglaub: What seems to be the problem in your opinion?
[18:30] <leo-unglaub> astraljava: there is no problem with the functionallity, it just the default theme with looks a little bit strage. it's just an eye candy bug. i marked the parts of the image
[18:30] <leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/wpe630yd/Auswahl_001.jpeg
[18:33] <astraljava> leo-unglaub: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/xfce4-terminal.png
[18:33] <astraljava> I see that the background color seems to mess with the borders a little bit, yes.
[18:33] <astraljava> Well, you should talk to knome or ochosi about that.
[18:35] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey
[18:35] <ochosi> well i tried to fix that earlier already in greybird, but it's not really possible
[18:35] <leo-unglaub> astraljava: okay, thanks !!!
[18:35] <ochosi> we decided to go for a "flat" terminal style in precise
[18:35] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: hi :)
[18:36] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: this is what it'll look like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02192012-073605pm.php
[18:36] <Unit193> >_<
[18:37] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: i see
[18:37] <ochosi> but that'll also work with dark terminal-bg
[18:37] <ochosi> the scrollbar-bg simply won't match the terminal-bg anymore, but the general window-color
[18:38] <ochosi> so it won't look as integrated as before (without tabs)
[18:38] <leo-unglaub> looks good
[18:38] <ochosi> problem is the tabs, that's an unfixable problem
[18:38] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: well, i am not a designer, but is it a possibillity to make it like in pidginß
[18:38] <leo-unglaub> ?
[18:39] <leo-unglaub> the tab problem seems to be fixeed there
[18:39] <ochosi> no clue what pidgin looks like, i never use that :)
[18:39] <leo-unglaub> mom, i take a screenshot
[18:39] <ochosi> feel free to send me a proposal/screenshot
[18:39] <leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/4v8ky51q/Auswahl_002.jpeg
[18:40] <leo-unglaub> if you use the same style, i would look great
[18:40] <leo-unglaub> in the right site there is a little gray border before the scroll bar
[18:40] <leo-unglaub> so the black background never would destroy the scroll bar
[18:44] <ochosi> well that's just the normal scrollbar
[18:44] <ochosi> you can easily have that by deactivating the terminal-specific theming
[18:45] <leo-unglaub> really? where can i do thatß
[18:49] <ochosi> you have to uncomment the line "include apps/terminal.rc" in /usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[18:49] <ochosi> s/uncomment/comment
[18:51] <ochosi> then you have to restart the terminal to apply the style
[18:51] <leo-unglaub> hey, thats looks great
[18:52] <leo-unglaub> and fixes my problem
[18:52] <leo-unglaub> thanks!!!
[18:52] <leo-unglaub> but, why is there a special stype for the terminal if the default looks that good?
[18:53] <ochosi> well the original intention/idea was to have the scrollbar feel more integrated in the black terminal
[18:53] <ochosi> but it doesn't work/look well with other background
[18:53] <ochosi> s
[18:54] <ochosi> but in general that's a question of taste, like with a lot of theming. i personally like about this scrollbar-style that it's not visually "in your way" as scrollbars aren't that important in terminals
[18:54] <ochosi> and it's very similar to the new resize-grip
[18:54] <ochosi> (in style)
[18:55] <leo-unglaub> well, i have not much of an idea about styling...i am a C/C++ dev with spends most of his day in the terminal and for me scroll bars are very important to see outou from above
[18:55] <leo-unglaub> but with the default style it looks great
[18:55] <leo-unglaub> thanks you very much !
[19:00] <ochosi> heh
[19:00] <ochosi> np
[19:00] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: if you're interested to help out with xubuntu a bit, you'd be most welcome. we don't have enough people who code
[19:02] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: yeah, i am very interested in it. i worked for almost 6 years with gnome but after trying 1 year to get along with unity and the gnome-shell...
[19:03] <leo-unglaub> i tryed xfce 2 days ago and fall in love with it
[19:03] <ochosi> cool
[19:03] <leo-unglaub> finaly i have a desktop again with allows me to work without havong fancy docs..
[19:03] <leo-unglaub> if i want docks..i buy an apple
[19:05] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: what can i do? i started last night to fix the thunar share plugin with is not maintained anymore
[19:05] <ochosi> very nice
[19:05] <ochosi> well there are a few areas we could do work in, but we'd have to postpone the discussion because i have to go now
[19:10] <leo-unglaub> well, sounds good
[19:11] <leo-unglaub> i pinned this channel and stay here
[19:11] <leo-unglaub> if there is something todo
[19:11] <leo-unglaub> just write to me
[19:13] <astraljava> leo-unglaub: Welcome into the gang! :)
[19:14] <Unit193> ....of weirdos.
[19:14] <astraljava> Well, I'm not really a Xubuntu dev, but I just recently started contributing.
[19:14] <astraljava> Unit193: I may be weird, but at least I'm not weird.
[19:14] <leo-unglaub> astraljava: thanks !
[19:15] <leo-unglaub> i am realy asking me why i didnt try xubuntu some years ago :)
[19:15] <leo-unglaub> is there a launchpad group where the tickets are listet?
[19:15] <leo-unglaub> and how close do you work with the xfce devs together?
[19:16] <astraljava> leo-unglaub: Not really, the bugs are filed per packages or project. Xubuntu-dev has more privileges on uploading stuff and that sort of things, but everything else is visible to all etc.
[19:17] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: ok, cool, i'll ping you when i have time
[19:17] <ochosi> have a nice evening everyone!
[19:17] <astraljava> leo-unglaub: mr_pouit _is_ an Xfce dev, and some others have close ties to the upstream project as well.
[19:17] <astraljava> ochosi: Back atcha!
[19:19] <leo-unglaub> astraljava: okay, i have noted my names
[19:19] <leo-unglaub> äh, the names of the devs
[19:19] <leo-unglaub> i will patch the thunar share plugin and report back
[19:39] <leo-unglaub> l
[20:05] <micahg> ochosi: the mpris issue, if it's one test and 6 commits, it's one bug, if there are multiple issues with it, it's one bug per test case, not per commit
[20:05] <micahg> if there are multiple commits BTW, you might want to add a link to the upstream commits in the bug if they're bundled as one patch in the debdiff
[21:19] <astraljava> Anyone else been having problems with Chrome lately? Seems it's not releasing memory from closed tabs like previously.
[22:50] <ochosi> astraljava: actually i've had troubles with chromium constantly eating my cpu
[22:53] <astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, sometimes it gets really stuck.
[22:55] <ochosi> i've switched back to midori
[22:55] <ochosi> hope the gtk3 issues get fixed soonish, gtk3-version is a lot faster
[22:55] <astraljava> I'm currently using FF.
[22:55] <ochosi> yeah, did that for years
[22:56] <ochosi> might even go back to that at some point
[22:56] <ochosi> but i'm kinda sympathetic to midori
[22:56] <astraljava> I need two important features working, at least through extensions; FlashBlock and Adblock+
[22:57] <astraljava> If a browser can provide those, I'm game. :)
[22:58] <ochosi> righty
[22:58] <ochosi> well at least adblock is there in midori
[22:59] <astraljava> I check so many links to youtube in a day, that I have to have flashblock working, cause I can't have them start playing immediately when I click on a link to open in a new tab.
[23:00] <ochosi> well, you could also use "mute"? :)
[23:00] <astraljava> A stupid workflow, I know, but it's in my system. :)
[23:00] <astraljava> No, cause I have music playing all the time.
[23:00] <ochosi> use pulseaudio to mute only the browser then
[23:01] <astraljava> But I might have music playing _in_ the browser. :)
[23:01] <astraljava> ...or from the browser, how do you say it.
[23:01] <ochosi> lol
[23:01] <ochosi> ok, well i guess then it's flashblock you need
[23:02] <astraljava> Yeah.
[23:18] <micahg> what's slow in Firefox?
[23:19] <ochosi> wait, did i say it was slow?
[23:27] <micahg> ah, CPU and memory issues :), Firefox has been working towards reducing its memory footprint with each release
[23:28]  * micahg isn't sure if Chromium has similar explicit goals
[23:28] <ochosi> i dunno
[23:29] <ochosi> i mainly switched to midori because it's such a small project and i think it can use the testing
[23:29] <ochosi> and feedback
[23:31] <micahg> ah, ok, well, I've been trying to keep it up to date in Ubuntu
[23:32] <ochosi> yeah, it's much appreciated
[23:32] <ochosi> btw, i'll try to put together the last test-case for the soundmenu tomorrow
[23:32] <ochosi> let me know if there's anything else you need
[23:32] <ochosi> (apart from the debdiff etc.)