[17:22] <darkseid> Is the NC Loco Team still active?
[17:23] <holstein> darkseid: depends
[17:23] <holstein> the channel is still here.. we dont "meet" or, have infrastructure
[17:23] <holstein> its been "dead" for about 2+ years, but, its an open community
[17:24] <holstein> i personally will not have time for anything resembling "reviving" the loco til late fall, or early spring..
[17:24] <darkseid> ok
[17:25] <holstein> are you in NC?
[17:25] <darkseid> yes new to NC
[17:25] <holstein> welcome..
[17:26] <ChinnoDog> darkseid: Where in NC?
[17:26] <darkseid> Durham
[17:27] <darkseid> i saw a guy talking about the ubuntu nc loco team at south east linux fest
[17:27] <holstein> nice
[17:27] <holstein> we should have been there, for sure
[17:28] <holstein> i work *all* weekends, so, im never able to be there.. or, at least, so far, im not
[17:28] <holstein> i dont get PTO, so, im not sure if i will ever make one.. but, it would be nice to have a presence there, for the LOCO
[17:32] <ChinnoDog> I just started a job based in Durham. Too bad I work remote.


[00:41] <blahdeblah> Personally, I'd rather build a reboot-friendly application architecture.
[00:41] <sarnold> :)
[04:02] <yurtesen> Is this channel alive?
[05:30] <yurtesen> Is there anybody here who can check/approve/merge security related debdiffs for a package in universe or somebody who knows a person who can do that?
[05:55] <Teachmehow>  Hi everyone. I have a list of installed packages on my system with dpkg. Is there any library/package that will allow me to convert the package names to its respective CPE?
[06:09] <sbeattie> yurtesen: do you have a launchpad bug or other pointer?
[06:09] <sbeattie> Teachmehow: sadly, there is not really that I'm aware of, though happy to be corrected if someone knows of one.
[06:55] <yurtesen> @sbeattie yes I prepared a small debdiff also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomcat9/+bug/1915911/comments/4
[06:57] <sbeattie> yurtesen: thanks, I saw some chatter about that bug, I'll poke further.
[08:24] <yurtesen> Thankyou, That was my first debdiff. Hopefully it is somewhat acceptable. I had a few questions about how to track if anybody is looking at a debdiff and format of the changelog if anybody can answer. See comment 8 for formatting question: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomcat9/+question/700934
[08:45] <tomreyn> i just brought this up in -kernel, but maybe you could also give me feedback, maybe i'm missing something. i'm running 18.04 amd64 with HWE (5.4.0-104-generic #118~18.04.1-Ubuntu). "cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2" reports "Mitigation: LFENCE, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling" (on this Ryzen 7 1800X), so it seems the kernel has not been compiled with a retpoline-aware compiler, which would suggest
[08:45] <tomreyn> the system is affected by spectre_v2, and apparently so because a compiler which does not (yet) support full_retpoline is used to build these kernels.
[08:49] <tomreyn> buildd@ubuntu built this one using gcc version 7.5.0 (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04) on Thu Mar 3 13:53:15 UTC 2022.
[09:18] <jjohansen> tomreyn: gcc 7.5 supports retpoline. until this last week lfence/jump was amd's recommended mitigation. You could force generic retpoline using the kernel boot parameter spectre_v2=retpoline,generic
[09:18] <jjohansen> see: https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/product-security/bulletin/amd-sb-1036
[09:42] <tomreyn> jjohansen: I can't force it with spectre_v2=retpoline,lfence (suggested by apw in #ubuntu-kernel - sorry for cross-posting here): cat /proc/version /proc/cmdline /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2 | nc termbin.com 9999
[09:42] <tomreyn> https://termbin.com/gbhc
[09:50] <tomreyn> interestnigly, AMDs advisory states "LFENCE/JMP (mitigation V2-2) may not sufficiently mitigate CVE-2017-5715 on *some* AMD CPUs" (*stress* added by myself) and does *not* list Ryzen 1000 series Desktop CPUs below. which could mean those are not affected, or are not being handled.
[10:14] <tomreyn> jjohansen: you have a point. i booted with spectre_v2=retpoline,generic now and got "Mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling"
[10:27] <Nicholas[m]> on a related point, mitigation for spectre and meltdown result in a performance hit. Do we only need this mitigation on multiuser machines?
[10:27] <Nicholas[m]> For a single-user desktop (or small multiuser system of trusted users) can we disable this mitigating features and boost system performance...?
[10:40] <jjohansen> Nicholas[m]: that entirely depends on what software you run on those machines. VMs that you don't trust - no
[10:41] <jjohansen> web browsers connected to the internet, well just about anything that could run untrusted scripts like the web browser
[10:41] <jjohansen> not


[01:33] <mephux> anyone know how to install wayland
[01:54] <darkxst> mephux, yes
[01:55] <darkxst> you just need a desktop file, hopefully that will be available next week
[01:59] <mephux> roger
[02:14] <darkxst> mephux, I just uploaded gnome-session to ppa:darkxst/ppa, if you install that (once it builds)  you will get a gnome-session-wayland package to install
[02:14] <darkxst> vivid only of course though
[03:22] <darkxst> mephux, bug 1414256
[03:23] <darkxst> mgedmin, ^
[08:35] <darkxst> ricotz, hi, libinput transition is pretty straght forward, I'll upload to ppa and and get it through into archives next week
[08:44] <ricotz> darkxst, hi, great :), so this means all "3.14" packages are building fine with 0.8.0?
[08:49] <darkxst> ricotz, just one patch needed for the get_axis change
[08:50] <darkxst> all fixed upstream except kwin which seem to have proposed disabling libinput on 0.8 since its still experimental also
[08:51] <darkxst> also wayland 1.7 should come in time for vivid by the looks of it
[08:53] <darkxst> but first bug 1414256
[08:56] <ricotz> sounds good
[09:12] <darkxst> yeh, seb already +1'd that, but will try push it to debian also
[11:05] <lindol> hi all :)
[11:43] <darkxst> hi lindol
[15:26] <towo> So whoever's in charge of the staging ppa knows they broke adwaita-icon-theme-full? ;)
[16:41] <mephux> towo: whats wrong with it
[16:42] <towo> wrong dependencies, sec
[16:42] <towo> Huh
[16:43] <towo> http://paste.debian.net/142115/
[16:43] <towo> This happened during update
[16:43] <mephux> ea - not good


[22:54] <nhandler> Is it just me, or is the posting of fridge articles to the forum taking longer recently (past month or two) than it used to
[23:06] <cjohnston> its up
[23:08] <nhandler> I know, it just took a long time


[00:30] <kwwii> evening
[00:30] <kwwii> does the kde4 kmail now work with imap?
[00:49] <jussi01> kwwii: its been working for a good while now afaik
[00:54] <kwwii> jussi01: erm, not on my system...it crashes again and again
[00:54] <kwwii> and if it doesn't crash it simply doesn't work
[00:54] <kwwii> it works fine with the kde3 version
[00:54] <jussi01> kwwii: weird. you are on the old packages or the 4.2 ones?
[00:54] <kwwii> I have tried both imap and disconnected imap
[00:55] <kwwii> jussi01: I am running intrepid with the old packages I guess
[00:55] <kwwii> I want to update to jaunty on my laptop but it is currently running hardy (with kde3 where it works)
[00:56] <jussi01> kwwii: ahh. Im using 4.2 and it works here
[00:56] <kwwii> if I loose my imap account I will no longer get my kde emails
[00:56] <kwwii> hrm
[00:56] <kwwii> maybe I should update my intrepid install then
[00:56] <kwwii> this just sicks
[00:56] <kwwii> sucks
[00:56] <kwwii> I happen to rely on this stuff for work
[00:56] <kwwii> :(
[00:57] <kwwii> if I click on the namespaces edit icon it simply crashes
[00:58]  * seele waves at kwwii
[00:58] <jussi01> kwwii: very weird. have you considered the other kde4 client out there?
[00:58] <kwwii> which one is that?
[00:58] <jussi01> hello seele!
[00:59] <kwwii> I use kmail because it has all the features I need
[00:59] <kwwii> hi seele :-)
[00:59] <jussi01> hrm, trying to remember the name
[00:59] <kwwii> I am about ready to (gulp) use thunderbird or something
[00:59] <kwwii> I really need to update this laptop to jaunty
[00:59] <jussi01> !info mailody
[01:00] <kwwii> but the kde4 packages on my hardy install and intrepid simply don't work with imap
[01:00] <jussi01> kwwii: not sure if the kde4 ones are there yet
[01:00] <kwwii> ouch, nope...I don't think I need an extra email app
[01:00] <kwwii> kde4 has just pissed me off to be honest
[01:01]  * jussi01 huggles kwwii
[01:01] <kwwii> it looks sooo nice and is soo much faster but only has half the functions of kde3
[01:01] <jussi01> kwwii: 4.2 rc1 is a big improvemnt imho.
[01:01] <kwwii> I mean, I am old-school kde...but this just makes me want to switch to something that works
[01:01] <kwwii> right, which means extra work and extra risk
[01:02] <kwwii> boah
[01:02] <kwwii> oh well
[01:02] <kwwii> thanks for the info
[01:02] <kwwii> kde seems to be trying to kill itself these days...sad
[01:03]  * jussi01 is sad kwwii has had a bad experience
[01:07] <kwwii> jussi01: you cannot imagine how strongly I feel the same way
[01:07] <kwwii> kmail is simply the best email client which exists
[01:08] <kwwii> I love it
[01:08] <kwwii> and the kde4 version is soo much faster
[01:08] <kwwii> but this is breaking my back
[01:08] <kwwii> I need it
[01:08] <kwwii> oh well, time for sleep
[01:08] <kwwii> it can wait another day
[01:08] <kwwii> jussi01: thanks for the help
[01:09] <kwwii> seele: when do you start at canonical? :p
[01:09] <kwwii> I am going to ask that every time I see you in hope that one day it might happen :)
[01:10] <seele> kwwii: hah
[01:10] <seele> kwwii: i dont really feel like moving to london now that we've got a decent president :)
[01:10] <seele> kwwii: and i dont know if the UX team is too happy with me atm.  we've been discussing my divergent view on notifications
[01:11] <kwwii> seele: I almost cried when I heard that Obama won...and the same agin at the inauguration
[01:11] <kwwii> seele: no worries, I think they will get a *lot* of shit once that stuff gets out in the wild
[01:11] <seele> kwwii: yeah.. i think the entire world is excited about it hehe
[01:11] <kwwii> but don't say I said that
[01:11]  * seele hopes he doesn't let us down
[01:12] <kwwii> yeah, me too...he cannot be perfect but so many people expect him to be
[01:12] <seele> well, he would have to try pretty hard to meet bush standards, so i think we'll be ok
[01:12] <kwwii> I guess I don't have to worry about imap support, Obama will fix it
[01:13] <kwwii> it would be hard to do worse :p
[01:13] <jussi01> rofl
[02:19] <usr> Hi! Does anyone know if they had considered to use SMPlayer as default media player for Kubuntu 9.04? It is better than Dragon Player, and Kaffeine isn't yet ported to KDE4.
[02:28] <torkiano> usr: SMPlayer uses phonon?
[02:30] <usr> I don't know, it uses mplayer, and qt4 only
[02:30] <usr> http://smplayer.sourceforge.net/
[02:31] <torkiano> mmmm, then I don't believe that kubuntu developers consider it to replace dragonplayer
[02:38] <usr> O.K., it was only to give the idea, because is a great media player. Thank you. :-)
[02:41] <torkiano> usr: yeah, i'm only a user, not a developer. But dragon is great too ;-). (I'm downloadding smplayer now to try)
[02:43] <usr> yes, yes, I know that you are only a user, but thanks for your answer also
[02:44] <usr> add "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/rvm/ubuntu intrepid main" to get the latest version
[02:46] <usr> if you have problems with the sound, select "openal" audio output in SMPlayer
[04:12] <ScottK-laptop> ScottK: Ping test
[08:48] <apachelogger> kwwii: actually akonadi ought to solve the imap issue ... in theory at least ;-)
[09:16] <apachelogger> obviously a lot of people in here use quassel :P
[09:30] <jussi01> apachelogger: thats cause quassel rocks? :D
[09:32] <apachelogger> possibly
[10:01] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Could you find some time to help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skim/+bug/290304?
[10:02] <apachelogger> Quintasan: well, you have to change the install path of the icon
[10:02] <Quintasan> apachelogger: yeah, but I can't find it -_-'
[10:03] <apachelogger> that can either be archived by fiddeling with the .install file (if there is any) or by moving the file after install in debian/rules
[10:03] <apachelogger> or by patching the Makefiles to use the right path
[10:04] <apachelogger> oh, nice enough, the package got a skim.install, so I would go with that approach
[10:05] <Quintasan> and the right place would be cd /usr/share/icons/default.kde4 ?
[10:05] <apachelogger> Quintasan: see the dh_install manpage for the syntax you have to use in order to install it to usr/share/hicolor rather than .../crystalsvg
[10:05] <apachelogger> eh
[10:05] <Quintasan> ah, ok, thanks
[10:05] <apachelogger> /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[10:05] <apachelogger> Quintasan: only hicolor gets inherit by all desktop's no matter what icon set the user defined
[10:36] <apachelogger> \o/
[10:36] <apachelogger> kmail just wiped out my inbox
[10:36] <jpds> apachelogger: I hope you have backups.
[10:36] <apachelogger> now must be a perfect time to abandon it and go use software that actually supports imap
[10:37] <apachelogger> jpds: I wouldn't be using kmail if I didn't do backups on both ends ;-)
[10:53] <knusperfrosch> tried to compile kdenetwork with neonmake, got a linker error: libQtGui.so.4: undefined reference to `QCoreApplicationPrivate::checkReceiverThread(QObject*)
[11:07] <knusperfrosch> hmm k, lookslike this was a icecc issue
[11:15] <knusperfrosch> wasn't a icecc issue: according to http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-711151.html qt-core should have been built with debug symbols. i guess i'm missing a package?
[11:25] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I changed the path in skim.install, however I'm having problems with pbuilder. First it stopped at "rm /tmp/buildd/skim-1.4.5/debian/tmp/usr/share/autostart/skim.desktop" saying the file doesn't exists, so i commented the line. Then it failed at "dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --fail-missing". Here is the build log: http://wklej.org/id/43680/
[11:26] <apachelogger> Quintasan: actually the build fails
[11:26] <apachelogger> scons: *** [utils/libscim-kdeutils.la] TypeError : cannot concatenate 'str' and 'list' objects
[11:26] <apachelogger> make: [install-stamp] Error 2 (ignored)
[11:27] <apachelogger> Quintasan: what arch are you on?
[11:27] <Quintasan> amd64
[11:27] <apachelogger> maybe the cause
[11:28] <apachelogger> IMHO the package should just be removed from the archives anyway ;-)
[11:30] <knusperfrosch> which package owns /opt/project-neon/lib/libQtGui.so ?
[11:34] <apachelogger> dpkg -S
[11:34] <knusperfrosch> thx just found it. but qt seems to be built with dbg anyways
[11:34] <apachelogger> off topic anyway
[11:35] <apachelogger> !ot
[12:53] <knusperfrosch> apachelogger: is there a channel for neon?
[13:01] <jussi01> knusperfrosch: #amarok.neon
[13:03] <knusperfrosch> jussi01: thx
[13:04] <jussi01> :)
[13:08] <apachelogger> wifi is so incredibly broken it's not even funny
[13:26] <danimo> apachelogger: broken wifi is never fun...
[13:26] <danimo> apachelogger: but I guess you mean in network manager
[13:27] <apachelogger> danimo: mostly, then again when network manager is broken you gotta spend half an hour fixing up the wpasupplicant
[13:28] <apachelogger> all good now \o/
[13:30] <danimo> apachelogger: I have that problem since about 3 or 4 kubuntu releases
[13:31] <danimo> apachelogger: is that a KDE problem? a general ubuntu problem? or NM in general?
[13:31] <danimo> apachelogger: all other ubuntu users seem to be perfectly happy with it
[13:31] <danimo> (gnome users, that is)
[13:31] <apachelogger> danimo: KDE mostly AFAIK
[13:31] <apachelogger> will all be good once the NM plasmoid is finished
[13:31] <apachelogger> at least I hope so
[13:32] <danimo> apachelogger: *sight*, can't we just use nm-applet then and integrate it withh kwallet?
[13:32] <danimo> apachelogger: last thing I heard it was terribly broken
[13:32] <danimo> -t
[13:32] <apachelogger> danimo: I don't think that would fit on the CD, nm-applet pulls in loads of GNOME stuff
[13:33] <apachelogger> if the knetworkconf thing wouldn't be so broken, I would have considered that an option ... but well...
[13:34] <danimo> apachelogger: well, we have to face the fact that those who work on nm use nm-applet as the frontend, which is why it effectively works best
[13:37] <alleeHol> danimo: sent the nm developers a fresh CD with KDE 4.2.   When they try they some may help with knetworkmanager in the future :)
[13:38] <Sput> nm-applet didn't work for me when I tried it in KDE, this gnome keyring crap stored the WPA password as a hash, and then decided to spit it out again as a hash when asked for it
[13:38] <Sput> (that wasn't on *buntu though)
[13:38] <Sput> ah yes, and it pulled in > 50 gnome packages.
[13:39] <seele> including recommended packages?
[13:40] <Sput> seele: that was all required deps (on Gentoo though, we probably pack Gnome a bit more fine-grained than *buntu)
[13:40] <Sput> but it seemed a tad too much for a simple systray applet
[13:41] <Sput> all for figuring out that it wouldn't work, because the password hash obviously does not help with associating.
[13:49] <Nightrose> kubotu: ping
[13:49] <kubotu> pong
[13:50] <alleeHol> Mhm, Tonio uploaded p-nm yesterday.  My tries ...
[15:26] <CruX|> hello all, I just updated my system to kbuntu 8.10, and i have problem with my keyboard. I set my keyboard rate with "xset r rate 200 70". All keys are working with exception of downarrow and leftarrow - wait delay is much bigger than 200 ms. What's wrong ? on kubuntu 8.04 it worked.
[15:35] <seele> !kubuntu-devel
[15:35] <seele> !help
[15:36] <seele> CruX|: #kubuntu for help
[15:36] <seele> this is a development channel
[15:36] <CruX|> what are you developping scripts ?
[15:36] <ScottK> Kubuntu
[15:37] <ScottK> !support
[15:37] <seele> packaging, software, defaults, etc.
[15:37] <CruX|> if yes i have another problem when my pc wakes up i must execute /etc/init.d/networking restart to bring eth0 up
[15:37] <CruX|> is it my problem only ?
[15:38] <seele> CruX|: #kubuntu for support please
[15:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: please assign bug 319245 some status and importance
[15:48] <apachelogger> as a matter of speaking: "the bug gets in the way of bug triage :P"
[15:51]  * ScottK notes plasmoid-windowslist sitting on REVU looking for a 2nd advocate.
[15:51] <ScottK> apachelogger: ^^
[15:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: can you please upload, I am not at home right now
[15:58] <ScottK> Sure.
[16:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: ok, I'm archving
[16:02] <ScottK> Just test building, one more time ...
[16:04] <ScottK> So we've got consolekit, packagekit, xkit, etc.
[16:04] <ScottK> Is the meta system to manage all this kitkit?
[16:05] <Tm_T> ScottK: no, kit2000
[16:05]  * Tm_T hides from Hasselhoff
[16:06] <apachelogger> oi vei
[16:13] <ScottK> _neversfelde and apachelogger:  Uploaded.
[16:13] <claydoh> is there going to be a Kubuntu 8.04.2?
[16:13] <ScottK> _neversfelde: Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[16:13] <ScottK> claydoh: Don't think so.  It's not LTS.
[16:14] <apachelogger> oh oh
[16:14] <apachelogger> claydoh!
[16:14] <claydoh> questions are arising, especially as there was a kubuntu 8.04.1
[16:14] <apachelogger> there was a kubuntu 8.04.1? Oo
[16:14] <claydoh> ScottK: I assumed as much there
[16:14] <apachelogger> claydoh: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu could you please drop the pre-intrepid stuff to subpages?
[16:15] <apachelogger> claydoh: the old information seems rather pointless for most users
[16:15] <claydoh> apachelogger:
[16:15] <claydoh> sure
[16:15] <apachelogger> k, thx :)
[16:15] <apachelogger> ~order cookie for claydoh
[16:15]  * kubotu slides one of world's finest cookies down the bar to claydoh.
[16:15] <claydoh> me is working on a quassel-for-dummies as well today
[16:16] <ScottK> \o/
[16:16] <claydoh> you don't wan't to keep some stuff for hardy there ?
[16:17] <ScottK> apachelogger: He has a point.
[16:17] <claydoh> apachelogger: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/8.04.1/release/
[16:17] <apachelogger> nah, all to subpages
[16:17] <apachelogger> with visible links to them
[16:18] <claydoh> kk
[16:18] <apachelogger> hm
[16:18] <apachelogger> did we do 8.04.1 DVD-only?
[16:18] <ScottK> No
[16:18]  * apachelogger only sees dvd :P
[16:19] <apachelogger> anyway, why did we get 8.04.1 but not .2?
[16:19] <ScottK> Dunno.
[16:19] <ScottK> Maybe no one asked.
[16:19]  * ScottK looks at Riddell for wisdom.
[16:19] <apachelogger> we do have ask for that? Oo
[16:19] <apachelogger> oh my
[16:19] <claydoh> most seem to be gnome fixes, but there are a few underlying things there as well, from looking at the changes
[16:21]  * claydoh prepares for the firestorms in the fora/ml's ;)
[16:22] <ScottK> We've also gone to KDE 3.5.10.
[16:22] <ScottK> That'd be a big deal.
[16:22]  * claydoh forgot that
[16:22] <claydoh> good point
[16:26] <claydoh> if you download the iso for 8.04 from kubuntu.org,  you get the 8.04.1 cd image, wonder why the cdimage site only has the dvd
[16:35] <nixternal> good morning kubuntu!
[16:40] <claydoh> good morning nixternal
[16:44] <neversfelde> ScottK, apachelogger: thank you
[16:54] <Ramblurr> what's the package name for qt assistant?
[16:54] <Ramblurr>  all i can find is libqt4-assistant
[17:19] <apachelogger> Ramblurr: qt4-assistant I suppose
[17:20] <MalikLamin> does anybody know an intersting GUI for editing linux code
[17:20] <Ramblurr> :No candidate version found for qt4-assistant
[17:21] <apachelogger> Ramblurr: qt4-dev-tools: /usr/bin/assistant-qt4
[17:21] <jussi01> !neon
[17:21] <apachelogger> MalikLamin: please define "linux code"
[17:22] <MalikLamin> sorry, linux kernel
[17:22] <apachelogger> vim ;-)
[17:22] <MalikLamin> vim???????
[17:22] <apachelogger> !vim
[17:22] <MalikLamin> are you crazy
[17:22] <MalikLamin> ?
[17:22] <apachelogger> MalikLamin: what is wrong with vim?
[17:23] <MalikLamin> i'd like a interactive IDE, i cant get flexibility with vim
[17:24] <apachelogger> Oo
[17:26] <MalikLamin> I will try kdevelop
[17:26] <Ramblurr> apachelogger: thanks
[17:29] <apachelogger> ~np
[17:29] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "live in moscow" by Faithless
[17:39] <nixternal> anyone else having issues with jaunty, today latest updates, with intel video?
[17:44] <tsdgeos> hi
[17:44] <tsdgeos> there are plasma dbg packages?
[17:45] <tsdgeos> oh yes
[17:45] <tsdgeos> kdelibs and kdebase -dbg
[17:45]  * tsdgeos goes home :D
[17:45] <jpds> tsdgeos: You can install debug packages from ddebs.ubuntu.com
[17:46] <Riddell> kdebase-workspace-dbg or add "deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty main"  and install kdebase-workspace-bin-dbgsym
[17:46] <tsdgeos> Riddell: what's the difference?
[17:48] <ScottK> Riddell: Any idea about 8.04.2 CD images for Kubuntu?
[17:54] <ghostcube> hi guys its me again
[17:54] <ghostcube> :D
[17:55] <ghostcube> i updated today from proposed and now amarok tells me an error at startup
[17:55] <nixternal> x-session-manager[3989]: WARNING: Detected that screensaver has left the bus
[17:55] <nixternal> hahahahahah, my screensaver didn't like the bus, so it left :p
[17:55] <ghostcube> oh it likes walking more ?
[17:55] <nixternal> that or it didn't pay its fare
[17:55] <nixternal> I guess so
[17:56] <ghostcube> bad
[17:56] <ghostcube> :D
[18:03] <apachelogger> tdomhan: I don't suppose there is any difference, ddebs holds a more complete set of debug packages (due to autogeneration) though ... which doesn't really matter for KDE because all our stuff got -dbg packages anyway
[18:03] <tsdgeos> apachelogger: ok ;-)
[18:04] <ghostcube> hmm forget it now i dont get the error on startup
[18:04] <ghostcube> oO
[18:05]  * ghostcube thinks kde4 is playing tricks on him
[18:06] <apachelogger> rgreening, vorian: you have to be more careful with version bumps ... you made oxygen-icons-kde replace dolphin << 4.2.0 for no apparent reason while not bumping some real dependencies
[18:08] <claydoh> apachelogger: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu/Edgy
[18:08] <claydoh> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu/Hardy
[18:08] <claydoh> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu
[18:09] <claydoh> apachelogger: should I perhaps expand on the 'adding third party repositories' area?
[18:10] <ScottK> claydoh: I don't think third party stuff should be there.
[18:10] <apachelogger> ScottK: _we_ are third party when deploying stuff via PPA
[18:11] <apachelogger> claydoh: btw, I think feisty can be removed completely
[18:11] <apachelogger> if I am not mistaken feisty is out of support anyway
[18:11] <ScottK> It is.
[18:11] <claydoh> one area I often see newbie problems is incorrect urls in the repo line
[18:11] <ScottK> I don't think 3rd party of any kind should go there.
[18:12] <apachelogger> ScottK: it's community docs after all
[18:13] <ghostcube> bug 254468
[18:13] <ghostcube> damn
[18:13] <claydoh> I was just thinking of a shot of that section, more or less, and aren't the commercial repos listed there anyway?
[18:13] <apachelogger> stdin_: is ubottu brokenish recently?
[18:13] <apachelogger> stdin_: or is it launchpad?
[18:13] <ScottK> It's more LP is slow
[18:14] <Arby> apachelogger: Riddell: anyone else What else needs to be on here?
[18:14] <Arby> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RemoveArts
[18:14] <ScottK> The Edgy and before page should get called Dapper.
[18:15] <ghostcube> is anyone here doing backporting ?
[18:15] <ScottK> Of?
[18:15] <ghostcube> and can may tell me if this bug will pass backporting commit
[18:15] <ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/254468
[18:15] <apachelogger> Arby: maybe a coulmn to mark if it has been fixed
[18:15] <apachelogger> Arby: or how it has been fixed
[18:15] <ghostcube> ubottu, youre timeout sux :P
[18:16] <ghostcube> i know
[18:16] <ghostcube> :D
[18:16] <Arby> apachelogger: yeah, fair point
[18:16] <tsdgeos> apachelogger: there are no digikam packages one can have installed togheter with the 4.2rc1 packages in intrepid?
[18:16] <ScottK> ghostcube: It's Launchpad not the bot that's the problem
[18:16] <ghostcube> ScottK, yeah but i can only blame the bot for now lol
[18:16] <apachelogger> tsdgeos: there might be somewhere, Lure would know
[18:17] <tsdgeos> :-7
[18:17] <ScottK> ghostcube: SRU, not backport for that.
[18:17] <tsdgeos> i'm already missing my old installtion :D
[18:17] <ghostcube> ScottK, means
[18:18] <apachelogger> tsdgeos: https://edge.launchpad.net/~digikam-experimental/+archive/ppa maybe
[18:18] <apachelogger> I guess we'll create a much more usable package stack in the kubuntu-members-kde4 ppa once 4.2.0 is out
[18:19] <tsdgeos> apachelogger: please :D
[18:19] <tsdgeos> let me try that though
[18:19] <apachelogger> :)
[18:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: do you know where jonny is?
[18:19] <ScottK> He said he'd be offline all weekend
[18:19] <ScottK> ghostcube: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[18:20] <Arby> apachelogger: column added
[18:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: taking a break? ;-)
[18:21] <ScottK> I think more like drug off by his parents somewhere.
[18:21] <Arby> apachelogger: are the instructions correct?
[18:21] <Arby> and what do we want people to do with the debdiff once they're done
[18:21] <ghostcube> ScottK, that would result in not fixing this bug in inteprid
[18:21] <Arby> we don't especially want dozens of bug reports
[18:22] <ghostcube> intrepid
[18:22] <ScottK> ghostcube: No.  It means preparing a patch to go into intrepid-proposed and test it.
[18:22] <ghostcube> oO
[18:22] <apachelogger> Arby: I would go with one bug report affecting all packages
[18:23] <apachelogger> Arby: some packages don't exist anymore anyway
[18:23] <apachelogger> like libkonq4
[18:23] <ghostcube> this would be the best proposed release in the last months
[18:23] <ghostcube> :D
[18:23] <Arby> ok, I haven't started checking the lists yet
[18:23] <apachelogger> Arby: can be done by those who are helping anyway
[18:24] <apachelogger> more time efficient IMHO
[18:24] <Arby> ok I'll create the bug then send a mail to the list
[18:24] <ghostcube> this bug is really annoing
[18:24] <apachelogger> Arby: in control there might be more to edit than just the build-dep
[18:24] <ScottK> I agree
[18:25] <apachelogger> Arby: best would be to search for arts
[18:25] <Arby> apachelogger: I just quoted what you said the other day :P
[18:25] <Arby> ok
[18:25] <Arby> something I'm still confused by.
[18:25] <apachelogger> Arby: also searching the .install files before testbuilding could help squash obvious stuff
[18:26] <Arby> aren't we going to break some functionality in certain apps?
[18:26] <ghostcube> ScottK, i know you dont support compiz but could this solve the redraw prob with the nvidia loose-binding option , if you know about this
[18:26] <Arby> I don't especially feel like being yelled at because we broke $app
[18:26] <apachelogger> Arby: that is really up to the developer who edits $app :P
[18:27] <apachelogger> Arby: outside of KDE land everything that depends on arts ought to be compiled without it without problem
[18:27] <ScottK> ghostcube: The problem happens on my Intel box too.
[18:27] <apachelogger> Arby: so there we would just remove unusable functionallity
[18:27] <Arby> I'm thinking about things like mythtv and friends
[18:27] <ghostcube> oh i thought only nvidia and ati related
[18:27] <apachelogger> Arby: and inside KDE land there might be apps that actually need arts tow rok
[18:27] <Xand3r> hey ho
[18:27] <ScottK> ghostcube: AFAIK it's everything.
[18:27] <apachelogger> Arby: mythtv probably just supports arts as a sound daemon
[18:28] <Xand3r> apachelogger: what are the 4.1.4 SRU bugs doing?
[18:28] <apachelogger> Arby: like audacious
[18:28] <apachelogger> Xand3r: ask ScottK
[18:28] <Xand3r> apachelogger: i am afraid
[18:28] <Arby> apachelogger: is it worth cross posting to ubuntu-devel in case anybody has any burning objections?
[18:29] <ScottK> Xand3r: They are waiting for people to add comments saying how wonderful 4.1.4 is.
[18:29] <Arby> or is that just likely to upset people for cross posting
[18:29] <ScottK> Arby: ubuntu-devel is appropriate if there are non-KDE packages.
[18:29] <apachelogger> Arby: what ScottK said ;-)
[18:30] <ghostcube> hmmm so far 4.1.4 works here
[18:30] <ghostcube> the one bug from amarok didnt happen again
[18:30] <Xand3r> ScottK: is it equal from whom the comment comes?
[18:31] <Arby> well as I said, things like mplayer and mythtv are non-KDE so I guess I cross post
[18:31] <ghostcube> i never get mythtv to work :D
[18:31] <ghostcube> good luck
[18:32] <ScottK> ghostcube: Please say so in the relevant bugs: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&fi
[18:32] <ScottK> .used=&field.tag=kde4.1.4&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_no_package.used=&search=Search
[18:32] <ScottK> Xand3r: Yes.
[18:33] <ScottK> Pretty much anyway.
[18:33] <Xand3r> kk i will ask some from the germanspeaking community
[18:33] <Xand3r> ScottK: ^
[18:33] <ScottK> Actually verification reports from people not invlolved in the packaging are better.
[18:33] <Xand3r> perfekt
[18:34] <apachelogger> Xand3r: perfect ... or  ... perfeKt :P
[18:34]  * apachelogger compiles 3 packages at the same time
[18:35] <ghostcube> ScottK, so i need to comment all packages :)
[18:35] <Xand3r> apachelogger: you know the k is magic
[18:35] <ScottK> ghostcube: Yes.
[18:36] <ghostcube> ui
[18:36] <ghostcube> :D long run
[18:36] <ScottK> Except the bluetooth one.  We got plenty on that one already
[18:37]  * ScottK wishes for a script to "Open all the bugs on listed on this page in new tabs".
[18:38] <ghostcube> but one thing is still a prob should be mentioned somehow that starting this damn teacooker applet will stop jackd from loading heh cause plasma grabs hw:0
[18:38] <ghostcube> lol
[18:39] <ScottK> ghostcube: So far no one else can reproduce that problem.
[18:39] <ScottK> I think you should mention it though.
[18:39] <ghostcube> ScottK, hmm nah a|wen had it too yesterday
[18:39] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[18:39] <ScottK> Missed that.
[18:40] <ScottK> Need to look into it.  He's a good person to do it.
 dtchen: it didn't grab raw here the first time ... but now i can't get it to stop grabbing raw :)
[18:41] <ghostcube> it highjacks the hw:0 rofl
[18:41] <ScottK> If we could get you and dtchen together to investigate it, that'd be great as he understands the sound stuff better than anyone I know.
[18:42] <ScottK> He's not around a lot though...
[18:42] <ScottK> Very busy
[18:42] <ghostcube> :)
[18:42] <ghostcube> no prob but maybe this would explain some question in the forums i found abput why jackd not starting
[18:42] <ghostcube> and no one had opened anything
[18:45] <Arby> apachelogger: how do we want this arts thing to work for people who already have upload privileges?
[18:45] <Arby> i.e. do we still want a debdiff to review for QA
[18:45] <Arby> or can people upload their own work
[18:45] <apachelogger> Arby: what else would we want?
[18:46] <Arby> people who can upload do, people who can't attach a debdiff
[18:47] <Arby> or everyone attaches a debdiff so that it can be reviewed
[18:47] <apachelogger> aye
[18:47] <apachelogger> Arby: former
[18:47] <Arby> thanks
[18:47] <apachelogger> there is no point in having developers attach a debdiff ;-)
[18:49] <Arby> we still have reviews for ninja packaging
[18:49] <Arby> even for developers :)
[18:50] <apachelogger> nope
[18:50] <Arby> anyway bug 320915
[18:50] <apachelogger> we have reviews for those who don't usually have upload rights
[18:51] <Arby> e-mail to follow later
[18:55] <apachelogger> Arby: maybe also mention ... if the package _can_ be fixed to not depend on arts, it should be marked as affected and closed in the changelog entry
[18:56] <Arby> apachelogger: do you mean put LP#: 320915 (or whatever it is) in the changelog entry?
[18:57] <Arby> btw, what do we do if a package can't be fixed to not depend on arts? keep arts?
[18:57] <apachelogger> Arby: 1) yes 2) either that or we remove the package ... depends on the package really :)
[18:58] <apachelogger> or push upstream to change $apps behaviour so we can drop arts
[18:59] <Arby> ok, got to go for now, biab
[19:16] <blizzz> won't there be the 8.04.2 release for kubuntu?
[19:18] <apachelogger> we don't know
[19:18] <apachelogger> doesn't seem so though
[19:19] <blizzz> what does it depends on?
[19:22] <apachelogger> blizzz: if release team is actually in mood to get us one
[19:23] <blizzz> ok. ty apachelogger
[20:07] <Arby> apachelogger: anything I need to add to this before I send it.
[20:07] <Arby> http://paste.ubuntu.com/109092/
[20:14] <apachelogger> Arby: is the bug mentioned on the wiki page?
[20:15] <apachelogger> if not, you should add it ... mail is good
[20:15] <Arby> by number yes, I'll add a link in a sec
[20:17] <Arby> mail sent
[20:47] <ghostcube> who is making the kde classic menu applet :)
[20:49] <ghostcube> i have a feature request if its not already done
[20:50] <Arby> ghostcube: we don't really do feature addition, that happens upstream in KDE
[20:51] <Arby> if it's a plasma applet then someone in #plasma will likely know
[20:59] <ghostcube> Arby, hmm ok
[21:51] <Arby> apachelogger: ping?
[21:51] <Arby> looking at arts stuff libsdl1.2debian-arts  looks pretty useless without arts
[21:51] <Arby> should it be marked for removal from the archive?
[21:52] <Arby> likewise liballegro4.2-plugin-arts
[22:32] <claydoh> well I have not fin ished the quassel how-to completely :(
[22:33] <claydoh> I eas sidetracked by an online shopping session
[22:33]  * claydoh loves getting a bonus check by surprisse
[22:35]  * claydoh gets to have a running desktop soon w00t!
[22:38] <ScottK-palm> How goes it?
[22:42] <jussi01> heya ScottK-palm :) it goes ok :)
[23:53]  * Sput just came back from a really nice evening with markey, Mamarok, Claudia Rauch et. al.


[02:35] <bluesabre> elfy: ogm video?
[14:21] <ochosi> did an upgrade recently from 13.04 -> 13.10 -> 14.04, no big troubles apart from indicators being broken
[14:32] <bluesabre> 12.04 to 14.04 is pretty painless too
[14:32] <ochosi> yeah, actually the indicators were the only thing i noticed
[14:55] <elfy> hey you two :)
[14:56] <ochosi> hey elfy
[14:56]  * bluesabre hides
[14:56] <ochosi> what's clickin?
[14:57] <elfy> harddrive
[14:57] <ochosi> get an ssd then
[14:57] <elfy> :p
[15:02] <bluesabre> :D
[15:05] <elfy> bluesabre: was a sound file in parole
[15:06] <ochosi> but what format?
[15:06] <ochosi> ogg? mp3?
[15:06] <ochosi> ideally, if you could provide the file, that would help
[15:07] <elfy> mp3
[15:08] <elfy> doesn't appear to be 'a' file
[15:08] <ochosi> wait, what is it, if it's not a file?
[15:08] <elfy> sorry - not 'a specific' file
[15:08] <elfy> not just the one
[15:09] <ochosi> ah
[15:09] <elfy> didn't notice yesterday tbh
[15:09] <ochosi> so it happens with all mp3s but not other file formats?
[15:10] <elfy> aaah
[15:10] <elfy> woohoo - nothing for 'us' to worry about - same behaviour everywhere here
[15:11] <ochosi> you mean totem?
[15:12] <elfy> clementine
[15:12] <elfy> gmb
[15:12] <elfy> exaile
[15:12] <ochosi> ah, not sure what clementine uses as backend
[15:12] <ochosi> but gmb and exaile usually use gstreamer
[15:12] <ochosi> (like parole)
[15:12] <elfy> libxine I think
[15:13] <ochosi> ah, xine, that still exists too
[15:14] <elfy> but it's definitely something I've had an update for in unicorn
[15:14] <elfy> same files play fine in trusty
[15:15] <elfy> no way for me to remember though - seeking in music tracks is not something I generally do :)
[15:15] <ochosi> mhm
[15:16] <elfy> no idea what I'd raise a bug report against though
[15:17] <elfy> might ask in -bugs
[15:17] <ochosi> yeah, if it's multiple backends i'm not sure
[15:17] <ochosi> otherwise i'd have suggested gstreamer
[15:17] <elfy> yea
[15:23] <elfy> oh
[15:23] <elfy> so clementine doesn't have xine as dependencies but gstreamer
[15:23] <elfy> so gstreamer I guess
[15:24] <ochosi> yup
[15:26] <bluesabre> sounds weird
[15:27] <bluesabre> I'll take a look at that later and see if its anything obvious
[15:27] <elfy> sounds like the sort of thing I end up with :p
[15:28] <elfy> originally thought I'd done something to the hdd - did a whole lot of deleting media files
[15:28] <elfy> but it works ok in trusty
[15:28] <bluesabre> hm
[15:28]  * ochosi is happy it works in trusty
[15:29] <elfy> bluesabre: I'll do a clean install later if I get chance and see if it is local
[15:30] <bluesabre> cool, thanks elfy
[15:30] <elfy> so I'd not look at it if I was you just yet :)
[15:30] <ochosi> yup, let's get the new dev release of parole ready first ;)
[15:30] <bluesabre> yup
[15:31] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, not sure satyajit contacted you already, but he wants to split the shimmer-themes package up (again)
[15:31] <ochosi> reason is that they want to ship numix also in ubuntu-gnome
[15:31] <bluesabre> ah
[15:31] <ochosi> another issue that i'm considering at the moment is dropping support for albatross and bluebird (hence also removing them from our default install)
[15:31] <bluesabre> any reason they cannot ship shimmer-themes in ubuntu-gnome?
[15:32] <ochosi> i simply don't have the time resources to patch all the gtk3 changes up with each release
[15:32] <bluesabre> bluebird was nice, but stopped getting love
[15:32] <ochosi> dunno, i guess that's something to discuss with the ubuntu gnome folks
[15:32] <bluesabre> shouldn't they be easier to maintain once ported to sass?
[15:32] <ochosi> yeah, once ported...
[15:32] <bluesabre> :)
[15:32] <ochosi> it doesn't sound like fun to me to rewrite entire themes in sass
[15:32]  * bluesabre does not know what that entails
[15:33] <ochosi> i'd rather work on more essential things than re-doing all our themes
[15:33] <bluesabre> yeah
[15:33] <bluesabre> that's okay, since Greybird and Numix are both top-notch
[15:34] <ochosi> yeah, rather ship two themes of quality than quantity
[15:41] <ochosi> so maybe we can set up utopic to carry either a reduced shimmer-themes package (greybird and numix) or two separate packages
[15:42] <bluesabre> yeah
[15:43] <elfy> biab
[15:44] <bluesabre> knome: please add importance to this bug
[15:44] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
[15:44] <bluesabre> it continues to be ignored
[15:45] <ochosi> :/
[15:45] <bluesabre> Logan_, micahg, I've tried other sponsors, if you guys happen to be about, please consider uploading the above package to trusty-proposed
[15:46] <ochosi> +1
[15:51] <elfy> bluesabre: must be local - seeks fine in live session once codecs are installed
[15:51] <ochosi> phew
[15:51] <ochosi> good
[15:51] <elfy> kind of
[15:51] <elfy> it'll really annoy me now I know and I'll need to do a clean install :p
[15:51] <ochosi> hehe
[15:52] <elfy> bit early in the cycle for that :)
[15:53] <elfy> that said I have another more annoying issue at the moment - had nvidia, reinstalled nouveau, reinstalled nvidia and it carries on using nouveau
[15:53] <elfy> 10 seconds of screen noise every boot
[15:55] <ali1234> make sure that gpu-manager didn't delete your xorg.conf
[15:55] <ali1234> it likes to do that all the time
[15:56] <elfy> that'll be it then
[15:56] <ali1234> it makes a backup
[15:56] <ali1234> i have no idea why it does this but it is really annoying
[15:56] <elfy> couldn't have had one - no xorg.conf.anything.at.all
[15:57] <elfy> no xorg.conf in trusty either and that boots with nvidia
[16:01] <ali1234> i dunno then
[16:02] <elfy> no - me neither :)
[17:12] <knome> bluesabre, done
[18:17] <bluesabre> knome, thanks
[18:21] <knome> bluesabre, when's your board?
[18:22] <bluesabre> the 14th
[18:23] <knome> mhm
[18:23] <knome> are you by any chance running for bugsquad privileges as well?
[18:23] <knome> brainwash, ali1234: you too ^
[18:27] <bluesabre> I probably should
[18:29] <knome> at least that would be useful, avoiding bottlenecking on only a few people having the privileges
[18:29] <knome> not that i mind doing that, but i'm not always available (much less now than before!)
[18:59] <bluesabre> :)
[19:08] <ali1234> my network browsing in thunar is broken
[19:08] <ali1234> it was working fine before i reinstalled
[19:09] <ali1234> Failed to open "/ on ". Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus).
[19:10] <ali1234> i don't understand this :(
[19:13] <ali1234> gvfsd is crashing
[19:19] <micahg> bluesabre: do the other bugs have test cases
[19:19] <micahg> I'll try to take a look a little later tonight
[19:20] <bluesabre> micahg, they do not, I'll add those as well
[19:20] <bluesabre> where would you prefer the bug test cases listed?
[19:23] <micahg> bluesabre: I think the SRU team will want test cases for all the bugs fixed
[19:24] <bluesabre> micahg, got it
[19:24] <micahg> they can be in the individual bugs
[19:24] <micahg> all the numbers will be linked in the upload
[19:24] <ali1234> well i found the issue
[19:24] <ali1234> gsettings crashes if you modify XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable
[19:25] <ali1234> this takes out gvfsd too
[19:29] <bluesabre> oh, that's fun
[19:37] <ali1234> according to the spec what i am doing is valid
[19:37] <ali1234> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
[19:37] <ali1234> according to my interpretation anyway
[21:09] <bluesabre> ali1234, I may have a fix for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10717 now
[21:09] <bluesabre> https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-settings/commit/1c828cc780b6742e0e19a002392f6f6ae8a337ee
[21:15] <ali1234> looking...
[21:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: you should really just set up the branch in git.xfce though ;)
[21:27] <ochosi> bluesabre: works for me, although the "friendly name" is really odd here
[21:27] <ochosi> it says ENC 24''
[21:27] <ochosi> and the number doesn't really cut it for me
[21:27] <ochosi> it might work for vbox, but everywhere else it's confusing imo
[21:28] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-07-06-232810.php
[21:29] <ochosi> in this particular example it looks like a product code or a bug
[21:29] <ochosi> i guess if the EDID friendly name is friendlier it looks better, but i'm still a bit against adding those numbers...
[21:29] <ochosi> at least in the displays, we could leave them there in the combobox if you want
[21:30] <ochosi> e.g. ENC 24'' (1/2)
[21:36] <bluesabre> ochosi: last few times I tried to set up a users branch in git.xfce failed
[21:37] <ochosi> hm, strange
[21:37] <ochosi> it should be fairly simple
[21:37] <ochosi> just set up your git-config a tiny bit by adding the private branch and push to it, done.
[21:37] <bluesabre> gotta run for a few
[21:37] <bluesabre> I'll try again when I get back
[21:37] <ochosi> alrighty
[21:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: you
[21:42] <bluesabre> 're welcome to adjust the numbering system
[21:42] <bluesabre> :)
[21:42] <bluesabre> bbl
[21:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: could we retire this page plz? http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/parole
[21:42] <bluesabre> yes plz
[21:42] <ochosi> unless you care about it, i'll just add a link to the docs-page
[21:42] <ochosi> (for redirect a plugin is needed, and i dont have sudo powers there)
[21:43] <bluesabre> I'll look into fixing the link on releases.xfce
[21:43] <bluesabre> bbiab
[21:52] <ochosi> hehe, greybird is referenced in wikipedia as "xfce theme": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce
[21:52] <ochosi> i guess that means it's true :p
[21:59] <ali1234> bluesabre: why XfceOutputInfo? why not just store the index?
[22:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: i wonder if the numbers are still necessary or even helpful (in vbox) to identify a display when you actually see the highlight in the selected display in the DND widget and also in the identity popup... i guess i'd merge your branch and consider marking as wontfix (or am i not seeing a benefit of the numbers here?)
[22:52] <ochosi> either way, time for bed. night everyone
[23:07] <bluesabre> ali1234, just made it easy for the time
[23:08] <bluesabre> I'll fix it
[23:08] <bluesabre> :)
[23:16] <bluesabre> ochosi: the numbers appear in the combobox, in the DND, and in the popup
[23:19] <ali1234> the numbers -> name mapping can change at any time
[23:19] <ali1234> see https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10725
[23:20] <ali1234> comment 11 onwards
[23:45] <bluesabre> Fixed my crap code, that looks annoying
[23:49] <bluesabre> I think I'll update the EDID vendor list


[13:58] <melodie> hello
[15:00] <Bluefoxicy> echo "always" | sudo tee /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/enabled
[15:01] <Bluefoxicy> ^^^ anyone experimented with this?
[15:01] <Bluefoxicy> also transparent_hugepage=always on the kernel command line does the same thing
[15:05] <penguin42> I've read of it but not tried - what are your experiences - I'm guessing somethings work well and some things go nuts?
[15:07] <Bluefoxicy> it's called 'transparent' for a reason.
[15:07] <Bluefoxicy> Redhat says their worst-case benchmark is 2.5% faster with THP enabled
[15:07] <Bluefoxicy> http://www.linux-kvm.org/wiki/images/9/9e/2010-forum-thp.pdf
[15:08] <Bluefoxicy> penguin42: this is from 2.6.28 btw
[15:08] <Bluefoxicy> it's had time to mature.  :)  There were bugs in 2.6.28-rc1 that needed ironing out before release
[15:09] <Bluefoxicy> haha what
[15:10] <Bluefoxicy> THP makes KVM 2.6x faster
[15:11] <Bluefoxicy> oh no, 20% faster ... it's 25% slower without THP in guest or host, but with EPT on (which is a different thing entirely) ... typical of RH, these graphs are deceptive and they are benching unrelated things.  (Embedded pagetables are AMD-V and VT-x)
[15:19] <blami> which package contains keyboard layout indicator?
[15:24] <melodie> blami, several packages do contain it : http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=keyboard+layout+indicator&searchon=all&suite=all&section=all
[15:24] <melodie> choose your's ? :)
[15:28] <melodie> how can I get zram to be loaded and zram-config started in a customized live cd ?
[15:28] <penguin42> Bluefoxicy: Well I guess to some level they are attacking a similar problem; I think EPT makes pagetable wrangling cheaper/free, and THP just ends up using less of them
[15:29] <melodie> knowing that /etc/init.d/zram-config is a symlink to /lib/init/upstart-job ?
[15:29] <melodie> but that it is not managed in the jobs-admin program, nor is is taken in account with a "systemctl start zram-config" launched in the chroot ?
[16:43] <Bluefoxicy> penguin42: i may be confusing NPT with EPT
[16:43] <Bluefoxicy> melodie:  i'm still confused as to why zram isn't the swap device on ubuntu
[16:48] <Bluefoxicy> melodie: https://github.com/bluefoxicy/zram-init
[16:48] <Bluefoxicy> I don't have/didn't know about zram-config D:
[16:53] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, I thank you I look
[16:53] <Bluefoxicy> where did you get zram-config?
[16:54] <melodie> in Synaptic
[16:54] <melodie> I have a few questions : would your's replace zram-config ?
[16:55] <melodie> would it be possible here: https://github.com/bluefoxicy/zram-init/blob/master/debian/etc/default/zswap to have 1/4 instead of 1/2 of the ram available for the block device ?
[16:55] <melodie> this is the value I used to have, and which is better
[16:55] <Bluefoxicy> yeah
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> https://github.com/bluefoxicy/zram-init/blob/master/debian/etc/init.d/zswap
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> i have good luck with fairly large values
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> KiB Mem:  15747100 total, 15238172 used,   508928 free,   155688 buffers
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> KiB Swap:  7873520 total,   122220 used,  7751300 free,  7294676 cached
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> granted i wrote this when I had 4096MB real RAM
[16:56] <melodie> then in Archlinux which I also use, the script provided by the distro creates more than one block device when there are more than on cpu : I think it is a good idea, what do you think ?
[16:56] <Bluefoxicy> that one multithrads
[16:57] <Bluefoxicy> see line 99-116
[16:57] <Bluefoxicy> linux will spread swapouts across devices; zram takes 1 thread per device, so you get parallel compression
[16:57] <Bluefoxicy> where did you get zram-config, what package?
[16:58] <Bluefoxicy> It's probably upstart-capable (mine isn't) and a better basis to start from for Ubuntu, adding any features it doesn't have (like cpu multi-thread awareness)
[16:58] <melodie> zram-config is from Universe
[16:58] <melodie> it is version 0.1
[16:59] <Bluefoxicy> ah ok
[16:59] <Bluefoxicy> that was simple
[17:00] <melodie> what I don't understand yet is how come I can't have it working in the live : for it to work in live, when booting to live I first need to load the zram module (modprobe) then I need to start zram-config : either with service start or with initctl start zram-config
[17:00] <Bluefoxicy> melodie: do you have zswap running right now?
[17:01] <melodie> however I had changed the two scripts which I found and contained indications about it (I did a large grep to find out that) : the files are :
[17:01] <Bluefoxicy> https://github.com/bluefoxicy/zram-init/blob/master/tools/zram_stat.sh this will show you how big compressed RAM is versus original size
[17:01] <melodie> wait a sec, I explain at once
[17:01] <Bluefoxicy> except it's buggy somehow
[17:01] <melodie> I think in the installed version it is ok, just I can't get it to work in the live
[17:01] <Bluefoxicy> still.  Seems to get down to about 25%-30% of original size on average (I've seen as high as 40%)
[17:02] <melodie> the files I modified are this ones:
[17:02] <Bluefoxicy> which is why I use a swap value of half as default
[17:02] <melodie> http://meets.free.fr/debian/configurations/OBUbuntu-Zram-live.tar.xz
[17:02] <Bluefoxicy> 2G takes up like 500-800MB of RAM tops, so you wind up with a 4G system that has 5.5G available
[17:04] <melodie> I think zram being created for low resource machines and embedded systems, low should be better, in order perhaps not to take too much on the cpu for compressing and uncompressing. then it is possible to create up to 4 block devices according to the case : and a good idea would be to have a zram.conf file in /etc, where the people can adapt the size for the block device and number block devices
[17:04] <Bluefoxicy> it only takes CPU for what's being compressed
[17:04] <melodie> I wonder if there is not one working like that in a debian spin...
[17:04] <Bluefoxicy> i.e. you can't really make the situation worse :P
[17:05] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, I said perhaps, I was not sure
[17:05] <Bluefoxicy> like high-resource systems benefit a lot more from zswap than low-resource systems
[17:05] <melodie> according to the experience I have had with it, both is equally true
[17:06] <melodie> in the paste times I had created a spin with openbox and a few light programs of another distro, with less programms in it, just minimal, and one guy decided to try install it on a machine with 128 MB ram:
[17:07] <melodie> next thing, when we added zram, he was able to install it to the low ram machine without creating a swap file prior (the installer is a gui) whereas before he couldn't go without creating a swap file
[17:07] <Bluefoxicy> yeah
[17:07] <Bluefoxicy> I've been arguing this should be a default configuration for a decade
[17:09] <melodie> I do agree
[17:11] <melodie> I have sent a mail to nitin gupta once, on his mailing list and one was why is it still in the staging directory of the kernel tree, when it has been used for many years now and didn't find any trouble with it ? he said that it was mainly due to... his lazyness and lack of time !
[17:12] <melodie> he also said something about a fellow module related to memory which was going to be replaced by another one on which zram would rely, but after looking for it in the new kernel versions, I never found this new version of the memory cache module
[17:19] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, the problem I met with the zram-config from the repos might well be that it is an upstart job
[17:19] <melodie> in antix I had used a classic init script, this one:
[17:19] <melodie> http://pastebin.com/FALaHEXU
[17:20] <melodie> presented and tested formerly here : http://antix.freeforums.org/post25708.html#p25708
[17:20] <melodie> and that one was ok in the Live Antix when booted.
[17:20] <melodie> I am interested to know what you think about it ?
[17:21] <Bluefoxicy> on ubuntu, upstart jobs are superior
[17:21] <Bluefoxicy> fedora/rhel7 systemd, debian undecided but currently seems to use a dependency-based sysvinit?
[17:22] <Bluefoxicy> gentoo is still ahead of its time even over a decade later, with named runlevels and dependency-based init.
[17:23] <melodie> debian I am not sure, I think it might depend on which debian version and latest antix use Debian testing as repos but their own made core with added scripts in /usr/local/bin
[17:23] <melodie> gentoo leaves it's users free to use either or systemd or sysvinit
[17:25] <melodie> and Ubuntu precise still has both if I understand things : I can see in the /etc/init.d some scripts, and also some symlinks to upstart-jobs
[17:25] <Bluefoxicy> systemd is honestly a fantastic piece of software, but Canonical is the second coming of Redhat and will never get over their NIH
[17:26] <melodie> what is NIH ?
[17:26] <melodie> my mother tongue is not English. :)
[17:26] <Bluefoxicy> (granted, bzr is fantastic and the whole world rushed to git because the first iteration of bzr was crap and the impression stuck)
[17:26] <Bluefoxicy> Not Invented Here
[17:26] <melodie> oh, ok
[17:27] <Bluefoxicy> it's when a person or team makes their own stuff despite all alternatives and regardless of any merit or demand patterns.
[17:27] <melodie> well whatever method, as long as we can get things going the way we would like them to...
[17:28] <melodie> it seems to me that Upstart was implemented before systemd came out ? or did I miss something ?
[17:28] <Bluefoxicy> the most blatant example is Redhat, especially in the case of Ulrich Drepper and the PT_GNU_HASH feature of gcc and glibc
[17:29] <melodie> ?
[17:29] <Bluefoxicy> in which case, unable to actually come up with something better or just-as-good, after a discussion on a public mailing list Drepper re-posted Michael Meeks' patch with a few bits moved around, and claimed he wrote it from scratch, and that there was some discussion with Meeks but nothing came of that
[17:29] <Bluefoxicy> (Meeks posted a completely working patch with benchmarks and test examples; the whole thing was his idea and he wrote all the gcc and glibc code)
[17:30] <melodie> so he robbed the guy idea, but that is a "person" problem, ego and such ?
[17:30] <Bluefoxicy> Yeah I don't like redhat or their developers.
[17:30] <penguin42> well, eglibc/glibc has merged and I assume solved that problem
[17:31] <penguin42> Bluefoxicy: Most of them are OK
[17:31] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, I think in all communities some people are better than others, I would not blame a community in particular
[17:32] <melodie> better techs as well as better persons as human beings caring for others
[17:33] <Bluefoxicy> penguin42: http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2006-06/msg00095.html this is 'that problem'
[17:34] <Bluefoxicy> lol
[17:34] <Bluefoxicy> anyway
[17:36] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, about zram-config, I am still interested to find how to start it in live. have u had the time to look at the  files I pointed to a bit earlier ?
[17:36] <Bluefoxicy> nah I've never built a live cd
[17:37] <melodie> and who would have knowledge about the way Casper works, and could help me ?
[17:38] <melodie> hi gilir
[17:39] <melodie> I am struggling with a few things in the project...
[17:39] <gilir> hi melodie
[17:39] <melodie> :)
[17:40] <melodie> are you very busy now ?
[19:06] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, ?
[19:06] <melodie> I just found out what caused zram not to be started in the Live in spite of the configurations I had done : do you want to know ? :)
[19:07] <Bluefoxicy> sure
[19:07] <melodie> a file in the initramfs-tools : initrd/scripts/init-top/compcache
[19:08] <melodie> it contains an instruction TO NOT load zram in Live CD's if the machine has 512 MB and above
[19:08] <Bluefoxicy> well that's silly.
[19:08] <melodie> the comment says:
[19:09] <Bluefoxicy> zram doesn't do anything until something's swapped onto it.  It's a no-op until performance would start lagging out.
[19:09] <melodie> yes, it's strange... the maintainer of this package is the Ubuntu Kernel Team
[19:09] <melodie> while original maintainer used to be Debian kernel team
[19:10] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, I agree with you.
[19:11] <melodie> I think I will comment this part out for the next test version I will do. by any hazard, is it likely that you might be interested in a spin easy to use with Openbox as main "desktop" ?
[19:11] <Bluefoxicy> gnome-shell
[19:11] <melodie> ok
[19:11] <Bluefoxicy> don't need a new livecd here.  The only thing interesting to me in practice is automated install and slipstreaming updates.
[19:13] <melodie> what is slipstreaming ?
[19:17] <Bluefoxicy> building a release with all the updates run
[19:17] <Bluefoxicy> so it's up to date on install
[19:17] <Bluefoxicy> the install-then-patch cycle is silly
[19:18] <melodie> are you saying that you would update versions and republish updated versions ? Or do you mean something else ?
[19:26] <Bluefoxicy> rather have a script that regenerates the current ubuntu-desktop release CD with all packages from updates
[19:26] <Bluefoxicy> that way I can just pop out a CD ISO at will all up-to-date
[19:28] <Bluefoxicy> (honestly, I'd rather just have *the* build system the developers use to produce the release CDs, complete with example release file that produces the original release CD, with a configuration that can be modified to change packages and install them from other repos--particularly updates for up-to-date install media.  Also, preseed)
[19:28] <Bluefoxicy> which is probably in the repo somewhere
[19:28] <Bluefoxicy> i just haven't found it yet.
[20:32] <melodie> Bluefoxicy, if it is just to have an up to date version, a build script fit to customize an iso should be enough ?
[21:46] <micahg> is python-config --includes an upstreamable way of fixing the various python can't find headers issues or is there a better way?