[00:32] <penguin42> hmm I should try the Alpha3 isos in a KVM when it lands, previous ones haven't been too successful (especially the KDE and netbook)
[01:19]  * penguin42 wonders why exaile (paused) is using an entire CPU
[01:20] <histo> anyone elses wirelss going crazy now with recent updates?
[01:20] <histo> my connection is bouncing between 0 and like 80%
[01:26] <Andy80> hi... anyone of you uses daily builds of Gwibber?
[02:07] <DanaG> grr, stupid indicator thingy... blacklists pidgin, for some reason.
[03:01] <Hellmark[S10e]> anyone having issues with KDE just crashing, and X.org being forced into low graphics mode?
[03:04] <Hellmark[S10e]> It only appears to be happening when using KDE
[03:45] <kindofabuzz> why does the notification area fill up with vertical lines as time passes??
[03:46] <Nitsuga> kindofabuzz, i don't have that issue
[03:46] <Nitsuga> kindofabuzz, maybe some program in the notification area is causing trouble
[03:47] <kindofabuzz> Nitsuga, i get them without anything in the notification area
[03:47] <Steil> hey
[03:47] <Steil> im having issues with CPUfreq scaling in UNR 9.10
[03:48] <Nitsuga> Steil, maybe you can get more help in #ubuntu
[03:48] <rww> Steil: 9.10 support is in #ubuntu, this channel is for 10.04 discussion and support.
[03:49] <Steil> er
[03:49] <Steil> 10.04 i meant
[03:49] <Steil> sorry
[03:49] <Steil> heh
[03:49] <Steil> (what is the default cpu scaling daemon in 10.04?)
[03:50] <Nitsuga> Steil, cpufreq? I think there isn't any
[03:50] <Steil> hmmm
[03:50] <Steil> okay
[03:50]  * Steil hasnt used ubuntu since 6.10
[03:50] <Nitsuga> Steil, any i think
[03:51] <Nitsuga> cpufreqd isn't installed on my system
[03:51] <Trewas> cpu frequency scaling is handled internally by kernel
[03:51] <Steil> so does the kernel handle scaling on its own now?
[03:52] <DSpair> Hi all, I need some assistance.
[03:52] <DSpair> The LVM modules are not starting up early enough in the init process to mount my mirrored home directory under Lucid. How do I modify that?
[03:59] <alex_mayorga> iS cAPS lOCK NUTS FOR EVERYONE?
[04:00] <Nitsuga> alex_mayorga, what?
[04:02] <alex_mayorga> I pressed Caps Lock once and now my keyboard inputs CAPS when the caps LED is off
[04:02] <alex_mayorga> and lower case when the CAPS LED IS on
[04:03] <alex_mayorga> basically Caps Lock key/LED are backwards
[04:03] <alex_mayorga> really weird :)
[04:03] <yofel> DSpair: maybe add them to the initrd?
[04:05] <yofel> DSpair: add them to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules (I think) and then run update-initramfs
[04:06] <Nitsuga> alex_mayorga, yeah, that's weird
[04:06] <Steil> is there anyway to add applets to the panel in ubuntu netbook remix?
[04:06] <Nitsuga> alex_mayorga, maybe swithching to  tty, pressing the caps lock, and going back to X solves that
[04:06] <Nitsuga> that, or rebooting
[04:06] <Nitsuga> i'm going
[04:07] <Nitsuga> good bye!
[04:07] <alex_mayorga> Nitsuga: can you try your caps lock on OOo Calc?
[04:07] <alex_mayorga> I was on it when the problem started
[04:08] <RAOF> Steil: No, there isn't. The top panel is probably too small to handle all the things we put in there *and* more.
[04:08] <yofel> DSpair: that will help if it's a module issue. but if you actually need a service to be started for lvm then a 'start on' statement in the upstart scripts might be wrong
[04:08] <Nitsuga> alex_mayorga, works
[04:10] <Steil> RAOF: do you know of anything that'll put a notifcation area icon so i can monitor my cpu scaling?
[04:10] <RAOF> Steil: Not off the top of my head, no.  There's a CPU docklet for Docky, but that's unlikely to be what you're after.
[04:12] <alex_mayorga> Steil: right click on the top panel, "Add to Panel..." pick "CPU Frequency Scaling Monitor", Add
[04:12] <alex_mayorga> that's on gnome
[04:13] <Steil> alex_mayorga: Apparently you can't add applets to the panel in netbook remix
[04:13] <rww> Stik: yes you can, there's just no space to do so by default
[04:13] <rww> Stik: sorry, mistab
[04:14] <rww> Steil: **
[04:14] <alex_mayorga> Steil: sorry, I didn't know the netbook part
[04:14] <Steil> rww: Do i need to do it through gconf then?
[04:14] <rww> Steil: you could just move one of the other applets over. Moving the notification area left and using the space to the right of it works for me
[04:15] <DanaG> I've found weird things happening when I use ibus: I end up with my notification-area getting wider and wider and wider and wider and wider and wider and wider, until it pushes my leftmost launchers ON TOP of my menus!
[04:17] <Steil> rww: The applet is showing up as locked....and gconf-editor is complaining the key is unwritable when i try to unlock it
[04:19] <xfact> anyone can tell me how to direct upgrade to Ubuntu Lucid alpha 3 from Karmic?
[04:20] <xfact> hello?
[04:20] <xfact> How to upgrade to Lucid from Karmic, may I know?
[04:23] <rww> xfact: Press Alt-F2, type "update-manager -d" (without quotes), it should tell you that 10.04 is available
[04:23] <nigelb> xfact: it is advised that you backup all important data
[04:28] <bjsnider> DanaG, the new notification area in gnome-shell is a small bar across the bottom of the screen
[04:29] <DanaG> hmm, I'm not speaking of gnome-shell, though.
[04:29] <bjsnider> yes, but you can switch over to it
[04:29] <DanaG> Interesting... so instead, I'll have a "small bar across the bottom of my screen" randomly leaking space.
[04:29] <bjsnider> it's int he ricotz ppa
[04:29] <xfact> Do you think Alpha 3 is enough stable for ordinary home works?
[04:30] <rww> xfact: no
[04:30] <DanaG> space usage fail: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot-gnomeshell.png
[04:31] <xfact> DanaG, WoW! What is this, the screen is looking so smart!
[04:31] <DanaG> That's gnome-shell last time I tried it.
[04:31] <vivid> yep
[04:31] <bjsnider> looks a bit different now
[04:31] <DanaG> oh, and there's that weird blur on the text on "network..."
[04:31] <vivid> looks exactly the same in karmic
[04:32] <bjsnider> and obviously you should be using more than just one desktop
[04:32] <DanaG> I'm used to using 4 desktops with compiz... ctrl-alt-arrow.
[04:32] <bjsnider> vivid, the latest version, 2.29 is in ricotz ppa
[04:32] <vivid> maybe, im partial to non-compositing wms
[04:32] <DanaG> I stick with Compiz.
[04:33] <DanaG> Nice animations (such as lamp), and nice Scale Windows thingy.
[04:33] <DanaG> And a taskbar, imagine that!
[04:33] <DanaG> =þ
[04:33] <vivid> i dont care for animations
[04:33] <vivid> give me a terminal and thats all it takes really
[04:33] <DanaG> Now, those FLAMES things ARE stupid, I'll give you that.
[04:33] <DanaG> Burning windows?  horribly horribly distracting.
[04:34] <DanaG> Doesn't even look cool.
[04:34] <bjsnider> what about the snow/water one?
[04:34] <bjsnider> and the gears?
[04:34] <DanaG> Eh, that's for when you WANT to be distracted.
[04:34] <vivid> thats because you left out your snowflakes
[04:34] <DanaG> =þ
[04:34] <bjsnider> and the multiple plugins that do the same thing but have different names
[04:34] <DanaG> Try using up, down, left, right arrows from the icon theme, instead of snowflake images.
[04:34] <DanaG> =þ
[04:35] <DanaG> It's like D-D-R (game). =þ
[04:35] <DanaG> Word assocations for me: DDR = RAM.
[04:35] <vivid> so when exactly is "alpha 3" out?
[04:35] <Espen77> DDR = old germany :P
[04:36] <Espen77> vivid: guessing within a day or so
[04:37] <DanaG> Changelog for rfkill: Constification.
[04:37] <DanaG> =þ
[04:37] <vivid> yea the calendar says tomorrow, just curious though
[04:38] <Espen77> vivid: it is just a roadmap with no guaraties
[04:39] <vivid> exactly why im curious :o
[04:44] <Espen77> DanaG: used shells a lot?
[04:44] <DanaG> Shells?
[04:44] <DanaG> Plural?
[04:44] <Espen77> gnome-shell
[04:44] <DanaG> No, I don't like it.
[04:45] <DanaG> At least, I didn't like it the last 3 times I tried it.
[04:45] <Espen77> I also tried it and prefer the way it is now
[04:47] <Espen77> good lucid is sticking to old gnome and is lts.
[04:49] <vivid> gnome-shell is nice because its more practical
[04:49] <DanaG> I find it LESS practical.
[04:50] <DanaG> And the animations annoy me to no end -- a minimize should NOT  feel exactly the same as a "close".
[04:50] <vivid> really? you find snowflakes and wobbly windows practical?
[04:50] <DanaG> No, I don't use snowflakes, and I have my wobbly relatively tame.
[04:50] <DanaG> I don't go moving windows all the time, you know.
[04:50] <DanaG> Compiz defaults can be stupid... but it can be nice once tweaked right.
[04:50] <DanaG> That's the problem: it takes tweaking to get it nice.
[04:51] <vivid> too much flash, not enough functionality
[04:51] <DanaG> That's only true if you MAKE it so.
[04:51] <DanaG> I could say the same about OS X and its dock.
[04:51] <vivid> either way, it holds the same functionality metacity does
[04:52] <vivid> and with compisiting, looks about the same too
[04:52] <DanaG> Plus the scale thingy, and zoom.
[04:52] <vivid> compositing*
[04:52] <vivid> mac is just a bad interface
[04:52] <DanaG> yeah.
[04:52] <DanaG> heh, my dad got my mom a mac, and hates it every time he uses it... yet is too stubborn to let me put even win7 on the thing.
[04:53] <Espen77> as long as i have tabbed terminal windows and firefox i dont care for much else, so i dont use much of the fx's
[04:53] <vivid> me either, but thats why i like gnome-shell
[04:53] <vivid> because it adds more than just pretty effects
[04:53] <vivid> everything is one click
[04:54] <DanaG> I find it adds LAAAAGH, last time I tried.
[04:54] <DanaG> It takes me exactly one click to click the firefox launcher on my panel.
[04:54] <DanaG> Takes 2 clicks to get there in gnome-shell.
[04:54] <DanaG> Or a hover and a click.
[04:54] <vivid> what if you want to browse your drive?
[04:54] <Espen77> it was unstable and slow when i tried it to,
[04:54] <DanaG> alt-f2, .
[04:54] <DanaG> opens home dir.
[04:54] <DanaG> yeah, just run "." in gnome run thingy.
[04:55] <DanaG> or go places->drive_name (or whatever).
[04:55] <vivid> or you could just hover and click the app you want
[04:55] <DanaG> I'd be okay with gnome-shell if it, A, had a taskbar, and B, let me change the animations.
[04:55] <vivid> or file, movie, song whatever
[04:56] <vivid> yea not having a taskbar is strange
[04:56] <DanaG> It totally breaks my ability to do anything, often.
[04:56] <vivid> when like it when im doing work
[04:56] <vivid> really easy to switch between the 20 apps i have scattered
[04:56] <vivid> yet all easily viewable
[04:57] <DanaG> I do same with compiz: mouse to lower-right corner.
[04:57] <DanaG> hmm, I should try gnomesHell again, since you say it's changed recently.
[04:57] <Espen77> good old alt-tab works to
[04:57] <vivid> i would almost bet money that compiz wont be default for much longer : /
[04:57] <DanaG> yeah, caps on purpose.
[04:58] <vivid> its not the same as alt-tabbing between apps
[04:58] <Espen77> lol...havent seen it written like that before
[04:58] <DanaG> =þ
[04:58] <DanaG> speaking of gnomes:
[04:59] <DanaG> http://www.perpetualkid.com/mini-gnome-be-gone-gnomebearers.aspx
[05:00] <DanaG> oh, here's my compiz profile: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Dana_Compiz.profile
[05:00] <DanaG> There are some settings there for non-enabled plugins, from previous use.
[05:02] <DanaG> super-tab is ring-switcher; I use it once in, oh, a blue moon or two.
[05:04] <Espen77> there is a nice thing in xubuntu i think, move mouse into top left corner and get all windows on screen like an alt-tab thing....not sure it is in normal compiz
[05:04] <vivid> i thought xfce used its own wm
[05:05] <Espen77> ye, it is xfce thing
[05:08] <DanaG> hmm, so is ricotz ppa also for lucid?
[05:10] <vivid> i dunno, but i liked the older version better
[05:11] <vivid> its a shame it has no configuration
[05:12] <DanaG> hmm, new gnome-shell
[05:12] <DanaG> hmm, new gnome shell has better animations, at least.
[05:12] <Espen77> looking the same?
[05:12] <DanaG> Namely, minimize is a "zoom", and close is just plain nothing.
[05:13] <vivid> i dont like them :p
[05:13] <DanaG> Try my compiz profile (export your settings first), and you'll see what I'm comparing gnome-shell to.
[05:13] <vivid> screen flickers all over when i touch the calendar
[05:13] <DanaG> hmm, the Activities thing is still horridly laggy, though.
[05:13] <DanaG> Looks like about 3 or 4 FPS.
[05:13] <DanaG> er, fine, maybe 8.
[05:13] <vivid> this version seems more jerky to me
[05:14] <vivid> but its not that slow
[05:14] <DanaG> does it have a showfps option?
[05:14] <Espen77> DanaG: have a big gpu?
[05:14] <DanaG> what the heck?  I turn on sidebar and RIGHT-CLICK an app... and it LAUNCHES the app.
[05:14] <DanaG> That's just as wrong as Apple making Enter RENAME things.
[05:15] <skyjumper> Enter renames things?
[05:15] <virtuald> danag: how do compiz affect power consumption? is it much?
[05:15] <DanaG> In OS X, yes.
[05:15] <skyjumper> when does it do that?
[05:15] <DanaG> hmm, on Intel, there's about ZERO effect for me.
[05:15] <DanaG> On Radeon... well, radeon PM is lacking anyway, for now.
[05:16] <virtuald> :)
[05:16] <DanaG> Especially with KMS.
[05:16] <DanaG> 46 watts with KMS; 17 watts with fglrx.
[05:16] <virtuald> yeah
[05:16] <DanaG> Or so my battery says.
[05:16] <virtuald> i only have intel in my netbook
[05:17] <DanaG> okay, since right-click launches the app, how do I REMOVE an app from the sidebar?
[05:17] <Espen77> DanaG: apt-get purge?
[05:17] <DanaG> oh, even with sidebar enabled, I still have to go to Activities to have working right-click.
[05:18] <DanaG> Argh, that Activities thing is still so unintuitive.
[05:18] <DanaG> I expect it to be a menu.
[05:18] <DanaG> It sure doesn't look like a button!
[05:19] <Espen77> think you are supose to type, like in gnome-do
[05:19] <DanaG> oh, and alt-f1 doesn't toggle.
[05:19] <DanaG> does normal gnome toggle menus upon repeated alt-f1?
[05:19] <Espen77> yes
[05:20] <Espen77> alt-f1 activates menu
[05:20] <DanaG> and alt-f1 again closes it?
[05:20] <Espen77> esc to close
[05:20] <Espen77> doing it twice have no effect
[05:23] <DanaG> hm, ctrl-alt-arrow not working right away... also bugs me.
[05:24] <DanaG> My compiz animations: open is dream, close is sidekick.  min/unmin is lamp. menu open/close is vacuum (like the mouse slurping up a noodle).
[05:24] <DanaG> oh, and neither super-l or ctrl-alt-l lock the screen.
[05:24] <Espen77> no padlock button on the keyboard? :P
[05:27] <DanaG> nope.  shouldn't need one.
[05:27] <DanaG> even win95 had super-l to lock.
[05:29] <Espen77> ctrl-alt-del + enter
[05:29] <DanaG> [3;7~
[05:29] <DanaG> yay
[05:29] <DanaG> re, that's on my other system.
[05:29] <DanaG> er.
[05:32] <DanaG> anyway, I'm still not impressed, but now it's less bad. =þ
[05:35] <Espen77> hard to find the app's they are all in one group
[05:39] <Espen77> have 2 terminals open you ned to do arrow down when alt-tab'ing
[05:49] <Espen77> wtb taskbar in shell
[06:03] <sagaci> alpha 3 - available yet?
[06:04] <espen77> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha3
[06:05] <espen77> should show on that page when i do
[06:05] <espen77> *it
[06:06] <sagaci> ok i'll come back in a couple of hours
[06:30] <Damascene> is Alpha 3 out?
[06:31] <ZykoticK9> Damascene, it should show in Channel title or http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha3 will be active
[06:33] <Damascene> I've got an email on QA mail list from some one who clam to be using alpha 3
[06:36] <Kubuntiac> Wow. Maybe we should all take a holiday and just download it from him ;-)
[06:37] <Damascene> :D
[06:39] <niekie> That's nothing, I'm using Ubuntu 16.10 here. It's marvelous ;D
[06:40] <Damascene> you are form the future then :)
[06:40] <niekie> No, I'm from the internet. :)
[06:40] <niekie> :P
[06:40] <Kubuntiac> The internet? That's near Russia, isn't it?
[06:42] <Kubuntiac> Hey, does anyone know what the deal is with xf86-input-wacom on Kubuntu? Doesn't seem to be in the repo's yet it's in packages.ubuntu.com under main...
[06:44] <Steil> hey so since the last round of updates, i've lost my battery from power manager....any ideas?
[07:09] <greezmunkey> lo
[07:13] <espen77> Damascene: maybe one of the iso testimages (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/)
[07:14] <Damascene> espen77, is there some issue with the link certificate
[07:17] <espen77> Damascene: waiting for a3 is offissialy out. Havent tried those images
[07:19] <espen77> Damascene: bether off spending the time praying that wacom input will work in a3 :P
[07:20] <Damascene> lucid alpha have not been quite unstable to me
[07:21] <Damascene> if I said it right
[07:21] <espen77> it has been suprisingly stabile
[07:21] <ZykoticK9> Damascene, you used a double-negative there, is is stable or unstable for you?
[07:22] <Damascene> stable, bad english
[07:23] <ZykoticK9> I've been running Alpha since beginning of the month - had my first hard lockup yesterday.  Others have not been so lucky.
[07:24] <espen77> ZykoticK9: maybe depending on what hw u use, i have been running it sins begining of december and no problems at all, except for software-center
[07:26] <ZykoticK9> espen77, certainly agree it's hardware that seems to have the most impact with stability on Lucid (same could probably be said for any OS mind you).  For Alpha software I find Lucid amazingly stable, I've certainly reported bugs but hey that's what Alpha/Beta software is for
[07:26] <espen77> ZykoticK9: exactly
[08:41] <arand> Would anyone here care to confirm if Bug #510571 exists in the current lucid version of virtualbox?
[08:45] <SwedeMike> arand: I had the problem 1-2 weeks ago, anyway.
[08:46] <arand> SwedeMike: this on Lucid?
[08:46] <SwedeMike> but since I found out about it I've always booted with acpi=off so I don't know if it's still there.
[08:46] <SwedeMike> this is in 10.04.
[08:47] <arand> SwedeMike: Mind testing? I'm trying to figure out how much patching is to be done..
[08:47] <SwedeMike> arand: the box is at home, I can test in 8 hours.
[08:48] <arand> SwedeMike: Cheers, either ping me or comment on the bug ↑↑
[08:49] <SwedeMike> sure, if I haven't responded in 10 hours, please remind me here.
[09:47] <grndslm> dudez... i just tried installing 10.04 on an ssd with GPT and grub is having an issue with it
[09:49] <grndslm> i selected /dev/sdb1 during install instead of both that and /dev/sdb.... so perhaps an error should come up when someone does that??  i mean, it still saw grub, but here's the "error: the symbl 'grub_term_outputs_disabled' not found.. Grub rescue >"
[09:50] <grndslm> but this was recommended to me...
[09:50] <grndslm> >>>  [09:45] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Yes, the Ubuntu installer should create a BIOS boot partition on GPT systems.
[09:51] <Jordan_U> grndslm, That comment was referring to the error from grub-install. A BIOS boot partition would not have helped when you set grub to install only to a partition.
[09:51] <grndslm> well... the new installer is whack... that's all i gotta say
[09:52] <Jordan_U> grndslm, You also know I hope that this is *not* the place to report bugs if you actually want to see them fixed.
[09:53] <grndslm> yea... i'm not a bug reporter
[09:53] <grndslm> just hopin' somebody could figure out how to install it to the GPT or MBR or whatever...
[09:54] <grndslm> so i wouldn't have to spend these few hours reinstalling all these tweaks again
[09:54] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Why don't you file bug reports?
[09:54] <grndslm> too complicated for an issue that will more than likely resolve itself
[09:55] <Jordan_U> grndslm, It won't resolve itself without a bug report
[09:55] <grndslm> well... i'll highly consider it after tonight
[09:56] <grndslm> Jordan_U: soo... reinstall is my only choice, eh?
[09:56] <Jordan_U> grndslm, I never said that.
[09:56] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Unless you mean re-installing grub
[09:57] <grndslm> Jordan_U: i already reinstalled grub with chroot
[09:57] <Jordan_U> grndslm, And is grub now working?
[09:57] <grndslm> NOT working
[09:57] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Did you add --force to grub-install or create a BIOS boot partition?
[09:58] <grndslm> Jordan_U: --force not create the BIOS boot partition
[09:58] <grndslm> i'm not sure what that is
[09:58] <Jordan_U> grndslm, What happens now when you try to boot?
[09:58] <grndslm> Jordan_U: same thing.... "error: the hsymbol 'grub_term_outputs_disabled' not found... Grub rescue >'
[09:59] <grndslm> *symbol
[09:59] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Are you sure that you are booting from the drive you installed grub to?
[10:00] <grndslm> Jordan_U: i must be... it's been sdb the whole time
[10:00] <grndslm> i've checked that it's the 60gb everytime
[10:00] <Jordan_U> grndslm, How have you checked?
[10:00] <grndslm> df -Th most of the time
[10:00] <Jordan_U> grndslm, I mean the boot order in the BIOS.
[10:01] <grndslm> been sdb everytime, afaik  :-/
[10:01] <espen77> what is on your sda?
[10:01] <grndslm> vista
[10:01] <espen77> still bootable?
[10:01] <grndslm> gpt on sdb
[10:01] <Jordan_U> grndslm, You may have installed grub to the correct drive but I am pretty sure that is not the one you are currently booting from.
[10:01] <grndslm> espen77:  no... i get that error above about the symbol not being found
[10:02] <espen77> for vista to?
[10:02] <grndslm> Jordan_U: if i remove the cable from the vista drive, do you think it'd work?
[10:02] <Jordan_U> grndslm, Yes
[10:02] <grndslm> nice... i'll try
[10:21] <grndslm> there's a bug in the installer!!  with grub & gpt partitions...
[10:22] <grndslm> i selected /dev/sdb1 (NOT /dev/sdb as well)... and now i'm having all kindsa problems
[10:22] <grndslm> it even wrote over a vista drive i also had setup as /dev/sda1, WHEN IT WASN'T SELECTED!!!
[11:31] <gnomefreak> you cant really compress mp3 can you (change size of dir) right?
[12:04] <pa> i
[12:04] <pa> hi
[12:05] <pa> when was lucid alpha3 supposed to be out?
[12:05] <pa> wasnt it today?
[12:06] <JoshuaL> pa, if it was today it can still be released, think of the timezones :P
[12:07] <pa> yes i know, but when then?
[12:09] <xguru> pa: ubuntu doesn't give a specific time zone, or a specific time
[12:10] <xguru> so it will be out "sometime" today.  Depending on your timezone it could be early tomorrow
[12:10] <pa> i see..
[12:11] <DSpair> Good morning all.
[12:12] <DSpair> I'm having an issue with LVM2 on my Lucid desktop and I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me out.
[12:13] <DSpair> When booting Lucid, I kep getting a screen which reads "Waiting for /home [SM]". The "/home" filesystem on my computer is an LVM2 volume, and I am assuming that it is failing because the device mapper is not starting in time for it to mount .
[12:13] <DSpair> How can I get the file system mounter to wait for the device mapper before trying to mount /home?
[13:10] <theadmin> Will gnome-shell be made the default in 10.04?
[13:12] <sanderqd> theadmin: no
[13:12] <theadmin> sanderqd: Well... too bad. Thanks
[13:28] <nizuri> does anyone have any idea what causes aptitude to give me a this error when I try to update? *** glibc detected *** aptitude: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0a18f650 *** (http://pastebin.com/QW6wqG3K)
[13:34] <Ian_Corne> 64bit?
[13:36] <nizuri> no
[13:58] <gnomefreak> nizuri: in Lucid?
[14:00] <gnomefreak> nizuri: http://paste.ubuntu.com/383688/
[14:00] <gnomefreak> need an idea on what command you are using
[14:02] <nizuri>  gnomefreak yes, lucid server
[14:03] <nizuri> gnomefreak:  sudo aptitude update
[14:04]  * gnomefreak running atm
[14:05] <gnomefreak> nizuri: i can not reproduce your bug. pleae file a bug on it that way someone can look at it. unless mvo_ is here but i get this feeling he is gone for the day
[14:06] <nizuri> gnomefreak: ok, i'll do that. thank you
[14:06] <gnomefreak> nizuri: np
[14:10] <mvo_> nizuri: out of curiosity, if you downgrade to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/i386/aptitude/<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu8 (previous lucid version) - does that help (I assume you run lucid)
[14:10] <mvo_> (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37134135/aptitude_<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu8_i386.deb)
[14:11] <gnomefreak> sorry thought you were gone for the day
[14:12] <nizuri> i'll gitve it a try
[14:13] <gnomefreak> W: The "upgrade" command is deprecated; use "safe-upgrade" instead. :(
[14:19] <lucidanxiety> hey, is alpha 3 coming out today or what?
[14:21] <nizuri> gnomefreak, mvo_ : that fixed it.
[14:21] <mvo_> nizuri: can you please file a bug and mention that then?
[14:21] <mvo_> nizuri: I think I know what the problem is
[14:22] <mvo_> nizuri: (make sure to mention its a regression compared to -8 )
[14:22] <mvo_> hey gnomefreak
[14:22] <nizuri> mvo_: yep, i'll add that. thanks to both of you
[14:23] <avi_> lucidanxiety: hey, is alpha 3 coming out today or what?
[14:23] <mvo_> nizuri: thank you! and give me the bugnumber please once its there, I will target it then
[14:32] <eagles0513875> :) hey guys
[14:32] <avi_> hey
[14:33] <eagles0513875> are there any updates for amarok in the pipline as it seems to be missing stop fastforward rewind buttons
[14:34] <gnomefreak> hi mvo_
[14:36] <nizuri> mvo_: I added it to this bugreport, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/515525
[14:36] <mvo_> thanks nizuri
[14:36] <nizuri> np
[14:45] <BluesKaj> howdy
[14:45] <gnomefreak> hi
[14:47] <BluesKaj> hi gnomefreak , what's up ?
[14:47] <gnomefreak> not much just been busy.
[14:50] <hggdh> why would virtualBox state I have an i686 when I have a AMD64 running x86_64?
[14:51] <Machtin> hi
[14:53] <crazeej> GUYS!!  i've got a bug report!!
[14:53] <crazeej> i installed lucid on my new 60gb ssd...   had vista already installed on a 140gb hdd...
[14:55] <crazeej> everything booted fine after install... but whenever i upgraded the grub-pc package, it kept giving me an error every boot thereafter:  "the symbol 'grub_term_outputs_disabled' not found... Grub rescue >"
[14:55]  * gnomefreak wonders what the issue is
[14:55] <gnomefreak> ah
[14:55] <crazeej> the solution was to "sudo parted /dev/sdb set 1 bios_grub on"
[14:55] <gnomefreak> crazeej: i have never seen that before
[14:55] <gnomefreak> crazeej: maybe file a bug report
[14:55] <crazeej> i'm thinking that bios boot partition thingy should've been automatic
[14:56] <crazeej> gnomefreak, yea, i don't know the best way to do that
[14:56] <crazeej> file it under grub?  under parted?
[14:56] <crazeej> on launchpad?
[14:56] <gnomefreak> crazeej: in terminal type ubuntu-bug grub-pc
[14:56] <gnomefreak> and follow the questions
[14:57] <crazeej> nice... much easier than i thought... would've been filing bug reports for years if i knew it was this easy!!
[15:19] <crazeej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/527833
[15:19] <crazeej> private!?
[15:21] <gnomefreak> crazeej: yes personal info. it will be marked differently once someone checks it
[15:23] <eagles0513875> hey guys
[15:23] <gnomefreak> hi eagles0513875
[15:23] <eagles0513875> gnomefreak: im having an issue with amarok actually it seems like there is an issues with some playback buttons missing
[15:24] <gnomefreak> eagles0513875: yes known already. someone else asked about it as well. dont know when it will get fixed. suggest filing a bug report so the devs know
[15:25] <eagles0513875> gnomefreak: would you recommend i compile from git source and package a newer package?
[15:26] <gnomefreak> eagles0513875: you can try if you like but its alot of work from something that may not be fixed upstream
[15:26] <eagles0513875> gnomefreak: would be a good start to learn packaging i think
[15:26] <gnomefreak> yeah it can
[15:27] <gnomefreak> not sure what level of ease armork is
[15:29] <eagles0513875> gnomefreak: ok. another question i backedup my bzr ssh key  what do i need to do to reassociate that with my lp account just copy the .ssh folder to my home folder
[15:32] <martijn81> hi, how far are we with the alpha3 version of kubuntu?
[16:19] <pa> hi
[16:19] <pa> any1 knows when today alpha3 isos will be released?
[16:20] <martijn81> pa: i am after the same information..
[16:20] <martijn81> dont know
[16:20] <pa> hope not to late..
[16:20] <martijn81> guess they will do it today
[16:22] <eagles0513875> pa: are you already on lucid
[16:23] <pa> i installed alpha2 3 days ago, but i suspect it has been hacked already
[16:23] <pa> so i turned off the machine
[16:23] <pa> and now im waiting for alpha3
[16:23] <pa> since i have to reinstall anyways
[16:23] <eagles0513875> pa: you can always reinstall alpha 2 and then run the updates
[16:23] <kklimonda> pa: you can use the latest daily iso
[16:23] <pa> ah
[16:23] <pa> where are they?
[16:24] <kklimonda> !daily
[16:24] <pa> i gues the iso from yuday is more or less the same as the iso for alpha3
[16:24] <pa> whats the difference btw daily and daily-live?
[16:24] <Nitsuga> pa, daily is an alternate cd
[16:24] <pa> ok
[16:24] <pa> thanks
[16:25] <pa> one more (silly) question
[16:25] <pa> on amd64 cpu, does the amd64 version run faster than the i386?
[16:25] <pa> i guess it might have some compiler optimization
[16:26] <Nitsuga> pa, yes, of course
[16:26] <Nitsuga> on amd64 the kernel is completely free to use each core individually
[16:26] <pa> aha..
[16:27] <Nitsuga> also mathematical operations are twice as fast
[16:27] <pa> then i know what to install :)
[16:28] <robin0800> kklimonda: the daily's have still got yesterdays date on them i.e. they are not today's
[16:28] <kklimonda> robin0800: but they are close enough
[16:28] <eagles0513875> im on 64bit due to the amount of ram i have and its super quick
[16:39] <histo> Hrm... found an interesting bug. Command line install boots tot he splash screen on tty7 not tt1
[16:40] <pa> mmh
[16:40] <histo> pa: you may see some bennefits with 64bit but there is not reason NOT to install it.
[16:40] <histo> pa: everything works with it flash etc... there are no more of the problems there were before.
[16:41] <pa> doesnt look like that the video works much with the amd64 daily
[16:41] <pa> lets wait until X loads
[16:41] <pa> ok
[16:41] <pa> looks like x works
[16:42] <histo> pa: Everything should work with it just fine. The more people that use it the better it will get too.
[16:42] <histo> pa: its becomming more and more the norm
[16:43] <mezgani> hello
[16:43] <histo> !hi | mezgani
[16:43] <mezgani> i have an hp laptop with broadcom wifi card
[16:43] <histo> mezgani: k
[16:44] <histo> mezgani: You need the firmware for your broadcomm card. Do you have a wired connection?
[16:44] <mezgani> so i can not find bcm module, lsmod | grep -i bcm
[16:44] <mezgani> yes
[16:44] <histo> mezgani: System > Admin > Hardware drivers
[16:44] <mezgani> i've installed b43-fwcutter
[16:45] <histo> mezgani: then you should be good to go if b43 downloaed the firmware
[16:46] <mezgani> aha so in Hardware drivers, i've Broadcom STA wireless driver
[16:46] <histo> mezgani: maybe check if hte module is blacklisted
[16:46] <histo> mezgani: activate it in there it will take care of it for you.
[16:49] <mezgani> right
[16:49] <mezgani> and it was done by bcmwl-kernel-source
[16:49] <histo> mezgani: yeah thats the other package you need. Is it working now/
[16:50] <mezgani> bcm43xx not found, after modprobe
[16:50] <mezgani> i've load all these b43,sbb, b43legacy
[16:51] <mezgani> but i can not for bcm43xx
[16:52] <histo> mezgani: you shouldnb't have to load them. Just activate it in hardware drivers will take care of everything.
[16:53] <histo> !broadcomm | mezgani
[16:53] <histo> !broadcom | mezgani
[16:54] <mezgani> histo, hardware drivers said that the driver is activated and currently in use
[16:54] <mezgani> thanks ubottu
[16:58] <histo> !bot | mezgani
[16:58] <histo> mezgani: ubottu is a bot I just had it send you info on broadcomm
[16:59] <mezgani> yep, nice job i see
[16:59] <mezgani> !libusb |mezgani
[16:59] <mezgani> !libusb | mezgani
[17:01] <mezgani> mmm, see the /var/log/jockey.log
[17:02] <mezgani> and in file i got DEBUG: BroadcomWLHandler enabled(): kmod enabled, bcm43xx: enabled, b43: enabled, b43legacy: enabled
[17:08] <eagles0513875> hey guys what is the name of the widget where kmix loads into and other icons cuz i accidentally closed out of that
[17:08] <apsdjgh> When will the bluetooth applet be merged into the indicator applet?
[17:09] <om26er> hey ubottu is alpha 3 out yet?
[17:09] <apsdjgh> !alpha3
[17:10] <om26er> ubottu, you there?
[17:10] <martijn81> apsdjgh: it will be today i guess
[17:11] <apsdjgh> martijn81: Not everything will be integrated, though. :(
[17:11] <robin0800> apsdjgh: or tomorow depending on your location
[17:11] <apsdjgh> martijn81: nm-applet and liferea won't be. :(
[17:12] <martijn81> yeah, but that is only if you use gnome
[17:12] <apsdjgh> Liferea doesn't even have a monochrome icon. :(
[17:12] <om26er> apsdjgh, report a bug. I reported and transmission got monochrome the next day ;)
[17:13] <apsdjgh> I find that Docky takes up too much room and some of my windows can't fit on my Eee PC's screen. :(
[17:15] <eagles0513875> hey guys what is the name of the widget where u see kmix and other programs on the task bar
[17:21] <apsdjgh> om26er: Are you frustrated with the lack of a simple yet powerful image editor for the Linux desktop?
[17:22] <om26er> apsdjgh, I dont edit image usually
[17:23] <apsdjgh> om26er: But sometimes you need to make some simple annotations to an image, crop it, add some captions, change the background colour or something?
[17:23] <apsdjgh> And find GIMP to complex?
[17:23] <om26er> apsdjgh, it is too complex
[17:24] <apsdjgh> om26er: Wouldn't you love it if the there was a Paint.Net-like program for Gnome?
[17:24] <martijn81> there is krita for kde
[17:24] <apsdjgh> KDE sucks
[17:24] <om26er> yeah
[17:24] <martijn81> yeah, in know we do not all use that
[17:24] <apsdjgh> om26er: I came across the perfect little find a couple of days ago.
[17:24] <Machtin> i guess i can read it in the topic, as soon as alpha 3 is out?
[17:25] <apsdjgh> om26er: Check this out: http://pinta-project.com/
[17:25] <om26er> apsdjgh, and that would be?
[17:25] <om26er> apsdjgh, I have pinta's source code in my computer atm
[17:25] <apsdjgh> Arghhh my Netbook screen is too small. :(
[17:26] <apsdjgh> om26er: Do you like it? I do. :)
[17:26] <om26er> apsdjgh, I was not successful to build it. and did not install that .deb file
[17:26]  * om26er downloads pinta
[17:26] <apsdjgh> om26er: Why don't you install the .deb then?
[17:27] <om26er> apsdjgh, now I am
[17:27] <apsdjgh> om26er: It's amazing what he's done in such a short amount of time.
[17:27] <eagles0513875> apsdjgh:  there is gimp for that btw
[17:27] <eagles0513875> and any of u guys know the name of the widget where all programs like kopete and kmix show up on is called
[17:28] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: GIMP is too complex for most users' basic needs.
[17:29] <eagles0513875> how so. btw u have any idea of my question
[17:30] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Sorry, I haven't used KDE for over a year now.
[17:30] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: GIMP has too many functions and stuff.
[17:30] <eagles0513875> apsdjgh: gimp = oss alternative to photoshop
[17:30] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Put GIMP in front of any new user and they won't have a clue what to do. Pinta and Paint.NET is less of a learning curve.
[17:31] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Photoshop is too complex for most users' basic needs, too.
[17:31] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Most people aren't professional graphics designers.
[17:31] <eagles0513875> ya
[17:31] <apsdjgh> I'm going to replace OpenOffice writer with Abiword on my systems now.
[17:32] <apsdjgh> Stupid OpenOffice isn't GTK.
[17:32] <BluesKaj> there are less complex photoshop versions
[17:32]  * om26er is now a fan of pinta
[17:32] <BluesKaj> only 300bucks a pop
[17:32] <martijn81> wow, not that cheap
[17:33] <avi_> is lucid lynx coming today or what?
[17:33] <BluesKaj> martijn81, photoshop that is
[17:33] <martijn81> okok
[17:33] <BluesKaj> avi_, alpha 3 is
[17:33] <avi_> thats what I meant.
[17:33] <apsdjgh> om26er: Yeah, it's good. :)
[17:33] <avi_> well,it isn't availible YET.
[17:33] <avi_> is it expected to be delayed?
[17:33] <robin0800> avi probably what
[17:34] <eagles0513875> apsdjgh: oo.o is java based
[17:34] <melkor> I'm curious what gnome and kernel are coming with lucid?
[17:34] <eagles0513875> melkor: lucid is at 2.6.32 atm
[17:34] <BluesKaj> who knows ...there were probs with the servers yestrday with OO upgrades so maybe the alpha3 release is somewhat delayed
[17:35] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: So?
[17:35] <melkor> Is there any possibilit of gnome 3 getting into lucid?
[17:35] <apsdjgh> melkor: It will be 2.6.32 and Gnome 2.30
[17:35] <apsdjgh> melkor: No.
[17:36] <eagles0513875> apsdjgh: reason its not gtk is the java motto write once run anywhere
[17:36] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Then I won't use Java programs.
[17:36] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: I ditched Azureus and use Transmission now.
[17:36] <avi_> question, is it all possible to upgrade karmic to the .32 kernel?
[17:36] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: I want a consistent look and feel.
[17:36] <eagles0513875> i use utorrent with wine
[17:36] <melkor> avi_ yes
[17:36] <apsdjgh> avi_: OMG of course it is.
[17:37] <avi_> forgive me, ubuntu noob.
[17:37] <avi_> how?
[17:37] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: WTF why use Wine when there are plenty of good native clients?
[17:37] <melkor> avi_: do you us the ppa?  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[17:37] <apsdjgh> avi_: Easiest way is to add the PPA.
[17:37] <avi_> ah ok.
[17:37] <eagles0513875> apsdjgh: havent found the right one yet
[17:37] <avi_> i'll try that. thanks.
[17:37] <histo> why would xinit not be installed with xserver-xorg
[17:37] <eagles0513875> and as of right now im not fully on linux but dual booting with win 7 due to gaming atm :(
[17:38] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: If Transmission had a GUI a bit more like Deluge and Utorrent, it'd be perfect.
[17:38] <melkor> avi_: I haven't added it, I just d/load the packages when their available.
[17:38] <apsdjgh> eagles0513875: Have you tried Deluge? It's a lot like uTorrent.
[17:38] <eagles0513875> no i havent
[17:38] <eagles0513875> im not on linux 100% of the time
[17:39] <eagles0513875> this is a development partition im setting up atm
[17:39] <avi_> any reason I shouldn't upgrade to the very-latest kernel; 2.6.33?
[17:39] <apsdjgh> avi_: Lots.
[17:39] <avi_> The reason I want to upgrade is because I read that a driver issue i have been having is resolved with the kernel lucid uses.
[17:40] <apsdjgh> avi_: Then use the Lucid kernel.
[17:40] <melkor> avi_: .33 is a rc candidate .32 is the lucid kernel.
[17:40] <avi_> okay, thanks, i'll install that.
[17:40] <melkor> avi_: using the .deb to install makes it pretty save though.
[17:41] <melkor> er safe.
[17:41] <avi_> whats the difference between headerrsand image?
[17:41] <histo> I have a command line system and I need to get sound working. Is there a meta package for sound. I'm setting up X with openbox
[17:41] <avi_> headers and*
[17:42] <pa> what is the ubuntu remote desktop?
[17:42] <pa> is it a vnc?
[17:42] <melkor> you need 3 files.  Headers are headers
[17:42] <histo> pa: yes
[17:42] <pa> ok
[17:42] <histo> pa: vino
[17:42] <pa> is it disabled by default?
[17:42] <histo> pa: yes
[17:42] <pa> why not using freenx by default?
[17:42] <melkor> avi_: do you use c at all?
[17:42] <histo> !best | pa
[17:42] <pa> i see
[17:42] <pa> however freenx is not even in the standard repo
[17:43] <avi_> the language?
[17:43] <pa> which appear strange to me
[17:43] <histo> pa: freenx is not as popular as vnc
[17:43] <pa> ok, perhaps, but why not having it in the universe/multiverse?
[17:44] <melkor> avi_: yeah, in c you he header files,which expose the api to other applications.
[17:44] <histo> pa: there is probably no package maintainer. Someone just needs to propose a deb and it would be in there.
[17:44] <melkor> avi_: you need the two header files and the image file the source file isn't so import.
[17:44] <pa> its in the launchpad
[17:44] <avi_> right. what two header files?
[17:45] <pa> or how it is called
[17:45] <avi_> i see the image, and one header for x86
[17:45] <pa> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX
[17:45] <avi_> oooh
[17:45] <avi_> wait
[17:45] <avi_> nevermind.
[17:45] <melkor> avi_: are you using 32 bit or 64bit
[17:45] <histo> pa: yeah the wiki
[17:45] <avi_> i see two,32.
[17:45] <melkor> avi_: and there is one that is labelled 'all'
[17:45] <apsdjgh> histo: I think BestBot is rigged to display sucky programs.
[17:45] <avi_> yup, got it. any order i should install them in?
[17:46] <melkor> avi_: I put them in their own directory and do dpkg -i *.deb
[17:46] <melkor> I think there is an order though.
[17:47] <avi_> okay. i
[17:47] <avi_> i'm trying that.
[17:48] <histo> What is the default sound system for 10.04?
[17:48] <apsdjgh> histo: Pulseaudio
[17:49] <histo> So alsa is not installed?
[17:49] <apsdjgh> histo: It is.
[17:49] <melkor> avi_ you can add the ppa to your repositories and then it will be in synaptic and you can install/update it automatically.
[17:49] <apsdjgh> histo: I use it with Wine.
[17:49] <histo> I'm so confused then. I need to get sound working on a command line install with X.  Trying to find the meta package or what needs to be installed
[17:50] <sebsebseb> Hi
[17:50] <histo> I've got X working
[17:50] <histo> whattup sebsebseb
[17:50] <histo> Just need to get sound working now
[17:51] <sebsebseb> histo: Has Alpha 3 been released yet?
[17:51] <histo> sebsebseb: don't thik so but www.ubuntu.com/testing
[17:52] <histo> sebsebseb: I don't know when its do out were kernel .14 now.
[17:52] <sebsebseb> it's meant to be coming out today 25th
[17:53] <pa> what is the package for virtualbox in lucid?
[17:53] <pa> virtualbox-ose?
[17:53] <sebsebseb> yeah for the open source version
[17:53] <avi_> someone above mentioned that the servers have been having some hiccups
[17:53] <avi_> and that it might be a bit delayed.
[17:53] <pa> sebsebseb, but the non opensource?
[17:53] <histo> !info virtualbox
[17:53] <sebsebseb> otherwise  go to http://www.virtualbox.org and get the other one, that has USB support unlike OSE
[17:53] <histo> pa: you'll probably have to get it from virtualbox.org
[17:53] <histo> sebsebseb: well then its out
[17:54] <Daviey> !info virtualbox-ose
[17:54] <pa> ah thanks
[17:54] <pa> for the rest they are the same?
[17:54] <sebsebseb> !virtualbox
[17:54] <sebsebseb> and they should change the above factoid, both are free as in price
[17:54] <histo> !non-free
[17:54] <pa> but beside the usb support, they are more or less the same?
[17:54] <histo> !nonfree
[17:54] <sebsebseb> pa: yep
[17:54] <pa> thanks :)
[17:54] <pa> so i can try the ose
[17:54] <pa> dont need usb atm
[17:55] <histo> does ose have guest additions?
[17:55] <sebsebseb> histo: I know what it means, but I didn't know their was a factoid
[17:55] <kklimonda> histo: yes
[17:55] <sebsebseb> that could be useful  when doing !virtualbox to do then do !nonfree instead of explaining stuff
[17:56] <avi_> rebooted with new kernel, everything looks a-o-k.
[17:56] <kklimonda> histo: the only two things that non-free version has are usb support and control of guest though rdp protocol
[17:56] <histo> pa: that was it no rdp
[17:57] <pa> ah oki
[17:57] <avi_> oh dear
[17:58] <avi_> looks like I can't use that new kernel after all.
[17:58] <avi_> my wireless driver is black listed
[17:59] <sebsebseb> histo: no Alpha 3 just yet
[18:00] <sebsebseb> it seems
[18:00] <Machtin> well, they have about 17 hours left, i'd say.
[18:01] <sebsebseb> Machtin: They release in California time zone or something,  even though the main HQ is now in London, I think?
[18:02] <Machtin> might be.. but they don't say the release date is from where the release location is.
[18:02] <Machtin> i mean.. it is a world-wide project, in the end..
[18:03] <sebsebseb> Machtin: sure, but it's still rather Amercian these days really,  American Engilsh instead of British English by default for example.  Software Center, not  Centre for example
[18:04] <Machtin> i agree, but i think if they don't manage to release it earlier, they won't hesitate to use the time zone as an explaination :)
[18:08] <histo> sebsebseb: well the updates are probably there.
[18:09] <sebsebseb> histo: looked at the webpages a little while ago,  and nothing about alpha 3
[18:12] <histo> So what should I install alsa-base or pulseaudio?
[18:13] <histo> sebsebseb: yeah the web isn't up to date as the distro is.
[18:13] <sebsebseb> histo: and no alpha 3 topic change here, but  I guess the webpages have to be up to date first, before that happens
[18:13] <histo> sebsebseb: ask in #ubuntu-devs maybe there is a big update coming later but I doubt it.
[18:14] <sebsebseb> histo: I guess it will be like last time or was that alpha 1 or both, well whatever.  Anyway where the webpages and such got updated,  in the night UK time
[18:14] <sebsebseb> night not evening
[18:14] <sebsebseb> early hours of morning
[18:14] <histo> sebsebseb: yeah thats what i'm saying but the updates are probably already in the repos what i'm running now on my other box.
[18:15] <histo> sebsebseb: then they have to build the iso's etc...
[18:15] <sebsebseb> histo: yeah well I got ISO I think still here for alpha 2,  I had a vm didn't last that long something happended, same thing for alpha 1 or whatever.
[18:15] <histo> sebsebseb: but if you are running a system now and keep it up to date its current.
[18:15] <sebsebseb> histo: so I'll doa new vm, using the alpha 3 ISO
[18:15] <Trewas> there has never been specified time when releases happen, if it is still Feb 25 _somewhere_ when they release alpha 3 then it is on time
[18:15] <histo> sebsebseb: ahh yeah that you'll have to wait for them to hit.
[18:16] <sebsebseb> histo: well I am not in a rush, but it looks like this is something, I will end up doing tonight, not this evening
[18:17] <histo> sebsebseb: yeah if it was something you needed now you could install alpha 2 and upgrade it.
[18:18] <sebsebseb> histo: nah just want to virtual machine test,  find out if I think 10.04 will be good enough for a lot of "average computer consumers"  who want things to "just work".  Find out if I think it will probably be good enough for them, or not.
[18:20] <sebsebseb> histo: I am not that keen on Ubuntu myself these days, but I know it's still a good Windows alternative for loads of other people.
[18:20] <histo> sebsebseb: its all i use on all my computers. The wife too. We got rid of windows ages ago.
[18:21] <sebsebseb> histo: Well I am running another distro on here at the moment, had a few little issues with it, nothing major,  and likeing it much more than Ubuntu 9.10.  By the way going a little off topic now.
[18:22] <pasdhfg> What does the input box in Indicator Applet Session do?
[18:23] <pasdhfg> !indicator applet session
[18:23] <om26er> pasdhfg, post the message through gwibber to facebook, twitter etc
[18:23] <bhuvi> the new ubuntu software center is much better than what was in ubuntu 9.10 but it can be little tweaked to still further improve the productivity,by simply swapping the more info and install buttons as it reduces the mouse movement for the user
[18:23] <pasdhfg> om26er: I don't use microblogging.
[18:23] <pasdhfg> om26er: How do I remove this annoying input box?
[18:23] <om26er> pasdhfg, IDK
[18:24] <om26er> pasdhfg, you can use gnome logout, shutdown applets ;)
[18:25] <pasdhfg> om26er: Everything in the Indicator Applet Session is fine but the microblogging shite.
[18:25] <DanaG> histo: how do you convince people to try Linux?  most people I know (parents, rather) are too stubborn to try anything different.
[18:25] <pasdhfg> om26er: Microblogging is stupid and gives away personal information and is a waste of time.
[18:25] <pasdhfg> DanaG: You don't.
[18:25] <DanaG> Biggest windows-only things they use: Photoshop Elements, and Quicken.
[18:25] <pasdhfg> DanaG: Who cares if they use Linux or not?
[18:25] <Pici> pasdhfg: Please mind your language here.
[18:25] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: When I did alpha 2 and got updates for it,  I got the social thing on the right, which is even more editing to what was on the right before.   What I don't like is how they were linked.  So can't remove the social features, whilst keeping the other feature.
[18:26] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: (When I did alpha 2 as in bothered to install in a virtual machine,  I already tried from an ISO in Virtualbox the Live Session)
[18:26] <DanaG> weird... stupid indicator thingy doesn't tie into pidgin.
[18:26] <DanaG> For some reason, it BLACKLISTS pidgin.
[18:26] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/480030
[18:36] <pasdhfg> How do I remove all microblogging software from Ubuntu?
[18:36] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Do you also mean the me menu?
[18:37] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: Yeah.
[18:37] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Social features on panel, just right click and remove it
[18:37] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Anything else just uninstall the program
[18:38] <trism> pasdhfg: most of it is supposed to be handled by gwibber, so you could probably get rid of that if you wanted
[18:38] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: I just want to remove the microblogging stuff, not all the social stuff.
[18:38] <pasdhfg> trism: So if I remove Gwibber, the microblogging stuff in the Me Menu will go?
[18:38] <trism> pasdhfg: I have no idea what it will do to the me menu
[18:39] <pasdhfg> Let's find out.
[18:39] <pa> why does lucid open a port 8000 by default? what is that?
[18:40] <pa> ah ok
[18:40] <pa> it is nxaget
[18:40] <pa> is not by default :)
[18:40] <pasdhfg> Microblogging is stupid.
[18:41] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Why do you think that?
[18:41] <pasdhfg> The input box is still there. :(
[18:41] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: There's nothing useful about it.
[18:42] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Facebook and Twitter and Myspace are all pretty stupid really, but that's what a lot of computer users, want to do these days.
[18:42] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: I use Facebook as an instant messaging protocol.
[18:42] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: But everything other than that is pretty stupid really.
[18:42] <trism> pasdhfg: then you are microblogging
[18:43] <pasdhfg> trism: IM is not microblogging
[18:43] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Why?  Also their's a plugin for that for Pidgin. The Pidgin plugin will work in Empathy I think.
[18:43] <pasdhfg> IRC is IM
[18:43] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: I use Facebook XMPP chat
[18:43] <pasdhfg> The plugin is buggy and bad.
[18:43] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: yeah if I am to use Facebook,  i'll use it for the IM with the plugin useually,  the other stuff I don't really care about when it comes to Facebook.
[18:44] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: Except perving on fit girls. ;)
[18:44] <pasdhfg> sebsebseb: I have disabled my wall and information and stuff. I just use Facebook IM to talk to my friends.
[18:46] <ActionParsnip> How long til alpha3 please guys?
[18:46] <trism> pasdhfg: my mistake, I don't use facebook didn't realize they had an xmpp server
[18:46] <om26er> ActionParsnip, not too long I gues
[18:46] <sebsebseb> pasdhfg: Yep IM and the rest of the Facebook stuff is a waste of time really.
[18:46] <ActionParsnip> Sweet
[18:46] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: probably will be out tonight UK time, not this evening
[18:47]  * om26er thinks in an hour or two
[18:47] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I'll grab it in the morning then, should be out then with some mad health
[18:47] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: I can't remember which one it was alpha 1 or alpha 2, but it came out in the night.
[18:47] <sebsebseb> maybe it was both
[18:48] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: What you mean out then with some mad health?
[18:49] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: lots of folks to torrent off
[18:49] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: oh right,  I tend to download the ISO's using FTP/HTTP
[18:49] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: (infact have I ever bothered to use a torrent hrm,  maybe/probably once)
[18:50] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: strains the servers more. Torrents are groovy like that
[18:50] <om26er> pasdhfg, you can use this tutorial to connect FB without a plugin http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/facebook-chat-in-pidgin-empathy-with-no.html
[18:50] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: strains the servers more?  you mean the load on the FTP/HTTP server,  if loads get from that?
[18:50] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: and then it can be quicker on torrents, since then people share with each other, and download the bits they need?  That's what you mean?
[18:50] <om26er> pasdhfg, actually if you are using empathy 2.29.91 it has the option for facebook chat
[18:51] <om26er> ActionParsnip, do you work for canonical?
[18:51] <sebsebseb> om26er: Why do you think he does?
[18:52] <om26er> sebsebseb, I have been seeing him at #ubuntu from the day I started ubuntu and he is real time active at ubuntu answers
[18:53] <sebsebseb> om26er: #ubuntu answers?
[18:53] <sebsebseb> om26er: I was rather active in their last year, but I so don't work for Canonical, just like he doesn't.
[18:53] <om26er> sebsebseb, #ubuntu support channel and launchpad anwers
[18:53] <sebsebseb> om26er: when I put #ubuntu answers I didn't want to do a #
[18:53] <sebsebseb> om26er: I don't bother with Launchpad, last time I used it was to order some free CD's.
[18:54] <sebsebseb> om26er: used as in was logged in to it, I have been on it when not logged in quite a few times
[18:54] <jdahm> is 10.04 fairly usable atm?
[18:54] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: I woudn't be suprised if you have some sort of tech job, but as far as I know you indeed don't work for Canonical?
[18:54] <sebsebseb> jdahm: probably
[18:55] <sebsebseb> jdahm: alpha 3 will be out a bit later on
[18:55] <jdahm> as in... today?
[18:55] <sebsebseb> yes
[18:55] <sebsebseb> jdahm: last alpha so of course there will be bugs here and there
[18:55] <jdahm> what is the ETA?
[18:55] <sebsebseb> jdahm: even the betas will have bugs,  even the final will have bugs
[18:55] <sebsebseb> ETA???
[18:55] <jdahm> how many hours?
[18:55] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, sweet! i picked a good day to try Lynx :)
[18:55] <Pici> jdahm: When its done.
[18:56] <ActionParsnip> Om26er: just a user
[18:56] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I'm a noc engineer
[18:56] <jdahm> if I install alpha 2 and upgrade I'll be OK right?
[18:56] <seanbrystone> how often do the alpha's change? alpha 1, alpha 2, etc
[18:56] <sebsebseb> jdahm: probably yeah
[18:56] <sebsebseb> jdahm: got an ISO for alpha 2 already?
[18:56] <om26er> jdahm, or you download the daily build
[18:56] <om26er> daily build would be better than alpha 2
[18:56] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: release scheduled is mentioned in the channel topic
[18:57] <seanbrystone> kk
[18:57] <ActionParsnip> Eta == estimated time of arrival
[18:57] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: /topic if you can't see it all on your client, and then you probably can
[18:57] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: What's a noc enginer?
[18:58] <exalt> alpha3 already released?
[18:58] <sebsebseb> exalt: No not just  yet, but it will be later
[18:58] <sebsebseb> on
[18:58] <exalt> ok
[18:58] <DanaG> hmm, xmpp facebook... can you say, plaintext passwords?
[18:58] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: we hide in the darkest corner and make sure everything is up and running like lan/wan and servers and services and take steps so the systems we manage have maximum availability
[18:58] <sebsebseb> jdahm: Have you got a Lucid ISO yet?
[18:58] <DanaG> In the clear... no ssl.
[18:59] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: oh
[18:59] <jdahm> sebsebseb: downloading the daily build right now
[18:59] <pa> !daily
[18:59] <sebsebseb> jdahm: I woudn't bother with that
[18:59] <sebsebseb> jdahm: if I was you
[18:59] <sebsebseb> jdahm: and just wait untill alpha 3, and get that one
[18:59] <seanbrystone> what timezone does Ubuntu use for releasing Alpha 3?
[18:59] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: GMT -8  I think
[18:59] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: California time
[19:00] <seanbrystone> cool thats where im at :D
[19:00] <exalt> what is the most frustrating bugs at,?
[19:00] <exalt> atm
[19:00] <pa> do you know whether its better to use also AMD64 os as guest on virtualbox, if i have amd64 host?
[19:00] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, so prolly midnight?
[19:00] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: You live in California?
[19:00] <seanbrystone> yeah
[19:00] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: no not mid night
[19:00] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: California working hours
[19:00] <seanbrystone> cool
[19:01] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: so probably before 5pm  your time
[19:01] <seanbrystone> will the mirrors be really slow?
[19:01] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: probably not
[19:01] <om26er> and now the date is 26 here
[19:01] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: not that many people will be downloading alpha 3 ISO
[19:01] <sebsebseb> om26er: where's there?
[19:01] <seanbrystone> yeah but they will be upgrading from 2
[19:01] <om26er> here
[19:02] <sebsebseb> om26er: well for alpha 2 or alpha 1,  I had to  get it in the night UK time, so it was 26th
[19:02] <om26er> 12:01AM
[19:02] <sebsebseb> sebsebseb: uh not 26th, but whatever the next day was for that one
[19:03] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: it's when final releases come out, that the mirrors will be packed for a day or two
[19:03] <jdahm> I'm going to just stick to 9.10 I think
[19:03] <jdahm> this is for a server-type application anyway
[19:04] <sebsebseb> jdahm: don't do  development versions of next Ubuntu, for  some important computer task
[19:10] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Got onto the release scheduled?
[19:10] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, yeah thanks :)
[19:11] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: np
[19:11] <seanbrystone> just trying to decide if i should dl alpha 2 now and upgrade it today or just wait and dl alpha 3
[19:11] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Do as in on a test machine or?
[19:12] <pa> mmh
[19:12] <pa> very strange
[19:12] <seanbrystone> prolly using vmware
[19:12] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Virtual machines :)
[19:12] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Virtualbox for me
[19:12] <pa> i read that virtualbox supports x86-64 guests
[19:12] <pa> but i try to run the ubuntu CD on it
[19:12] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: I suggest just waiting for alpha 3,  I guess in the next three hours maybe
[19:12] <pa> and it says that it detects an i686 cpu
[19:13] <espen77> "http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/alpha-3/" was just created, but is still empty
[19:13] <seanbrystone> i cant get virtualbox to get higher resolutions and installing the vbox additons are a pain on some distros, so i choose vmware
[19:13] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: may as well wait. Less downloading
[19:13] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone:  what ActionParsnip put
[19:13] <pa> i think i'll go with ubuntu 32
[19:14] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: did you setup an xorg.conf file?
[19:14] <pa> seemingly virtualbox-osd doesnt work with amd64
[19:14] <seanbrystone> good point on the waiting
[19:14] <seanbrystone> ActionParsnip, i belive ubuntu stopped using xorg.conf?
[19:14] <seanbrystone> or for other distros?
[19:14] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: it relys heavily on udeb
[19:14] <ActionParsnip> Udev and hal
[19:14] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: Lucid won't have HAL
[19:15] <ActionParsnip> If you make an xorg.conf file it WILL be used
[19:15] <seanbrystone> ah im not that good with linux to be fooling around with udev, hal or even xorg.conf lol
[19:15] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: also  as far as I know no xorg.conf starting with Karmic
[19:15] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: funky
[19:15] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: what's funky?
[19:15] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: true, doesn't stop you making one
[19:15] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: no hal
[19:16] <penguin42> yeh making an xorg.conf definitely works in karmic, this <- machine has it
[19:16] <pa> HUH
[19:16] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: Plymouth for boot up in Lucid,  Fedora and Mandriva already have it
[19:16] <pa> now it works with amd64
[19:16] <pa> weird
[19:16] <pa> i had to reset the vm
[19:16] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: there is a sample one xorg.conf file for 1024x768. You can easily modify it
[19:16] <pa> oh
[19:16] <pa> second time that doesnt work
[19:16] <pa> ok i fgive up
[19:17] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: funky in that context,  meant, oh right cool, oh right good?
[19:17] <seanbrystone> ActionParsnip, lol easy for you
[19:17] <sebsebseb> or above
[19:18] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: is plymouth some pretty bootsplash rubbish?
[19:18] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: as for making an xorg.conf I already knew that could be done
[19:18] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: read the file, you'll see what I mean. Xorg.conf is very readable
[19:18] <seanbrystone> yeah i have seen them before
[19:18] <penguin42> ActionParsnip: Yes, but it seems to do a bit more than that, but I haven't figured out what
[19:19] <seanbrystone> "Easy" for one person is hard for another
[19:19] <ActionParsnip> Then that will be going then. Text bootup for me please
[19:19] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: if you can delete the characters "1024x768" and replace with a desired res, its easy
[19:20] <seanbrystone> ive tried that lol
[19:20] <seanbrystone> that doesnt do anything but give you a xorg error
[19:20] <ActionParsnip> Seanbrystone: its a simple as literally telling it
[19:20] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: It's the boot up that Fedora and Mandriva use, as already mentioned,  it's pretty, but not rubbish.
[19:20] <penguin42> ActionParsnip: That assumes it is a resolution it knows about
[19:20] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: It can be pretty, but it's not rubbish.
[19:21] <penguin42> seanbrystone: What resolution are you trying to get and what is your setup?
[19:21] <ActionParsnip> Yep plymouth will be removed from my lucid. Stupid eyecandy holding up the train
[19:21] <seanbrystone> 1440x900 ATI graphics
[19:21] <penguin42> seanbrystone: frglx or the open source driver?
[19:21] <seanbrystone> i mean at boot up
[19:21] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I don't even use desktop wallpaper dude
[19:21] <seanbrystone> cant even get that far penguin42
[19:22] <penguin42> oh boot up, I don't know how to tweak the boot
[19:22] <penguin42> seanbrystone: Hypothetically if you could which would it be?
[19:22] <seanbrystone> i have to use safe graphics mode every time to get past booting
[19:22]  * penguin42 grumbles at monitor manufacturers for doing weird res
[19:22] <seanbrystone> 1440x900
[19:22] <seanbrystone> HP monitor
[19:23] <seanbrystone> ATI graphics something like ATI 4530 HD (less than one year old computer)
[19:23] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: It doesn't slow stuff down
[19:23] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb; I like watching the boot too. Looks leet :)
[19:23] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: It's also much better than that xsplash junk that Karmic has
[19:23] <pa> sebsebseb, im trying to run lucid i386 daily on virtualbox in live mode (from CD) but seemingly it is stuck during loading..
[19:23] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: you can do a text boot
[19:23] <seanbrystone> ATI Radeon HD 4350 actually
[19:24] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Actually, whether I like plymouth or not the one thing I do like is that there isn't wasted effort trying to do anoyher one
[19:24] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb; yep uninstall all the slash guff and you got it
[19:24] <ActionParsnip> Splash*
[19:24] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: With Mandriva I can have a graphical plymouth boot or press enter for the text mode,  so I am hoping Lucid will have something similar to that.
[19:24] <seanbrystone> whats the website that would list the new features of Lucid?
[19:25] <Michalxo> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha3 ?
[19:25] <DanaG> pa: the thing with vbox and 64-bit is this:
[19:25] <Michalxo> so when are they going to release A3?
[19:26] <DanaG> On a system with 64-bit CPU running a 32-bit host OS... you can still run a 64-bit guest OS.
[19:26] <DanaG> If CPU is 32-bit, it's no-go, though.
[19:26] <DanaG> At least, I believe that's how it works.
[19:26] <DanaG> And 64-bit host OS can always run 64-bit guest.  =þ
[19:26] <penguin42> sebsebseb: You could try passing the kernel the parameter video=1440x900Ω60  (I've never tried it)
[19:26] <om26er> yes its out
[19:26] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: I think you will find that Lucid will be introducing quite a few features that you do not want
[19:26] <pa> DanaG, now i have a 64 bit OS on a 64bit cpu
[19:26] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: Have you tried a development version already?
[19:27] <penguin42> note that Ω is really an at sign
[19:27] <pa> but when i run lucid x86-64 on it, it says it finds only an i686 cpu
[19:27]  * penguin42 grumbles at synergy
[19:27] <pa> now i ran lucid i386
[19:27] <pa> but it is stuck
[19:27] <DanaG> Hmm, try changing "OS type" in VM properties.
[19:27] <DanaG> The guest is what says it finds only 32-bit?
[19:27] <pa> yes
[19:27] <Adelante> and we have Alpha3 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/alpha-3/
[19:27] <pa> ubuntu says that it finds an i686 cpu
[19:28] <penguin42> pa: What is your real CPU (exactly)
[19:28] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: waiting for alpha3 dude
[19:28] <pa> an athlon64x2
 Yep plymouth will be removed from my lucid. Stupid eyecandy holding up the train <-- is that true or you're just supposing?
[19:28] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: well the social features that are already there
[19:28] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: It will have the music store as well
[19:28] <penguin42> sebsebseb: In ogg I assume?
[19:29] <sebsebseb> penguin42: no doesn't seem so
[19:29] <penguin42> sebsebseb: ?!
[19:29] <sebsebseb> penguin42: MP3 and WMA for some music
[19:29] <sebsebseb> penguin42: it seems
[19:29] <sebsebseb> from what I read
[19:29] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Oh that's pretty silly
 On a system with 64-bit CPU running a 32-bit host OS... you can still run a 64-bit guest OS. <-- no that's not possib
[19:29] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well the music companies dictate the file formats for this kind of thing
[19:30] <DanaG> http://geekswithblogs.net/twickers/archive/2009/02/06/129243.aspx
[19:30] <sebsebseb> record companies above
[19:30] <sebsebseb> penguin42: it's something I won't be using
[19:30] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I'm not sure that's actually true, but I suspect it's ajust a licensed rent-a-music store
[19:30] <sebsebseb> penguin42: If I am going to buy music I would much rather buy a pshyical music album.
 but when i run lucid x86-64 on it, it says it finds only an i686 cpu <-- so your cpu is not x86_64-capable
[19:30] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: not sure. Never used it
[19:30] <DanaG> http://blogs.sun.com/fatbloke/entry/how_to_configure_a_64
[19:30] <pa> Nitsuga, well, i have an ubuntu 64 installed on it
[19:30] <pa> what do you think?
[19:30] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: well it's more editing to the thing on the top right
[19:31] <DanaG> if I were to buy music, I'd want a CD I could rip to FLAC.
[19:31] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: and those social features are rather useless indeed, when no accounts are set up to use them
[19:31] <Nitsuga> pa, you are talking about a vm!
[19:31] <Nitsuga> just realized that :P
[19:31] <DanaG> aah, "    Choosing the 64-bit version causes VirtualBox to create a vm which  uses the VT-x/AMD-V technology of the CPU, and uses IO APIC too. "
[19:31] <penguin42> Nitsuga: Running 64bit guests is somewhat more complex than it should be; there are some VM systems that let you run 64bit guests on 64bit cpus running a 32bit base OS
[19:31] <DanaG> so you have to tell it explicitly that you want a 64-bit guest.
[19:31] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: what's annoying is when I updated alpha 2 in a vm.  I coudn't remove the social features, whilst keeping the other thing.   I was also annoyed when 9.04 had it's thing on the top right, with system and log out removed from system menu as a result. 8.10 had in the system menu and the thing on top right :)
[19:31] <DanaG> Even if host is 64-bit, I believe you still have to tell it so.
[19:32] <pa> DanaG, thanks for the link
[19:32] <pa> maybe i have to enable VT something in the bios
[19:32] <Nitsuga> penguin42, Virtualbox can't do that at the moment. Also those VM systems need a 64bit cpu with virtualization support, and not all 64-bit cpu have that
[19:32] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: thing on top right,  fusa (fast user account switcher)  is ok in 9.10 I guess, an alright icon and yeah
[19:32] <penguin42> Nitsuga: Yes
[19:32] <penguin42> so given the Alpha3 CDs are there, I assume the repos are synced?
[19:33] <Michalxo> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha3 -- works
[19:33] <sebsebseb> Michalxo: Is the ISO there yet?
[19:33] <Nitsuga> penguin42, they do the "official" release when all the mirrors are synced
[19:33] <Michalxo> seems like it
[19:33] <penguin42> Nitsuga: Ah makes sense
[19:33] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: only one user dude.
[19:33] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: same here for this computer
[19:33] <Nitsuga> penguin42, http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha3 <-- this wors, mirrors are synced
[19:34] <penguin42> gogo apt!
[19:34] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: as for the other computer which runs Karmic,  I will upgrade it to Lucid,   and then remove social "consumer" rubbish, in my little brothers account, since he is to young for those kind of features at the moment.
[19:34] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I use cli to reboot/shutdown here. Saves me having to reach for mouse
[19:34] <Michalxo> I hope torrents will work fast
[19:34] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: My older brother might like those features though, since he uses Facebook, and I think Twitter sometimes as well.
[19:35] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: if the show fits :)
[19:35] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: If th show fits???
[19:35] <DanaG> heh, my parents are so stubborn; they'd never try Linux.
[19:35] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: mould the desktop to the user
[19:36] <sebsebseb> DanaG: my parants are locked in to XP, but I was alloweed to put Ubuntu on the latest family computer
[19:36] <DanaG> My dad got my mom an imac because supposedly they "just work" -- but that turned out not to be true.  And he hates it every time he has to use it to try to help my mom.
[19:36] <DanaG> Yet, despite hating OS X, my dad won't let me put even win7 on the thing!
[19:36] <sebsebseb> DanaG: my Dad might use it again at some stage,  but only if Windows mess's up on  there enough or something.
[19:37] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: yeah so  icons back in gconf editor it will be yep
[19:37] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: yep that's right,  system menu icions are gone and most of places
[19:37] <Michalxo> download from torrents is dead :-((
[19:37] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: and the thing to turn them back on graphically.  so  it's a gconf editor job now
[19:37] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: icons in gconf?
[19:38] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: not something I've used in a while dude.
[19:38] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: icons  in the system menu,  and some of places.  that got removed in Karmic, but can easilly be turned back on graphically.   Lucid  it's gone and the thing to turn on graphically.  interfaces
[19:38] <pa> perhaps i dont have these extension
[19:38] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I don't use system menu, all apps launched from guake
[19:38] <pa> so thats why i cant run 64bit OS
[19:39]  * sebsebseb is still wondering if it's possible  to add back  shut down and log out to the system menu,  whilst keeping  Ubuntu's  top right junk, that certain users will like
[19:39] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: what's quake?
[19:39] <ActionParsnip> !info guake | sebsebseb
[19:40] <sebsebseb> ActionParsnip: something for launching apps using the terminal I guess, by the info
[19:40] <Nitsuga> sebsebseb, is is like yakuake, but for gnome
[19:40] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: no, it is a terminal
[19:40] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: its like tilda or yakuake
[19:40] <Nitsuga> sebsebseb, you press F12 and a temrinal drops down from the top of the screen
[19:40] <Nitsuga> REALLY useful
[19:40] <Nitsuga> you can hide it with F12
[19:40] <Tux007> Cheers @lll
[19:40] <sebsebseb> ok sounds like something I will try
[19:41] <arand> SwedeMike: ping
[19:41] <sebsebseb> yeah i'll try whatever that is
[19:41] <Michalxo> tilda is bogging sometimes ;-(
[19:41] <ActionParsnip> Sebsebseb: I use terminal to launch and manage apps instead off guis and menus
[19:41] <Michalxo> guys, anyone knows about tint2?
[19:42] <Tux007> Only one question: What is the alternate command to "top" in Mac OS X (SL)?? Does anyone knows?
[19:42] <sebsebseb> penguin42: the music from the music store, will be yours to keep
[19:42] <dende> someone know how to installa usb internet key tre
[19:42] <sebsebseb> penguin42: and can download it three times
[19:42] <sebsebseb> no DRM
[19:43] <dende> someone know how to installa usb internet key tre?
[19:43] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Most of it is non-DRM these days
[19:44] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I've never actually bought any download music online, but I did get some from amazon when they were doing some free giveaway
[19:44] <Nitsuga> sebsebseb, I just don't understand the "you-can-download-it-3-times" thing. If it doesn't have drm, you can carry it with you anyway
[19:45] <penguin42> Nitsuga: If you lose it, you can redownload it
[19:46] <ActionParsnip> Yo yo yo
[19:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Nitsuga  http://popey.com/blog/2010/02/19/ubuntu-one-music-store-sneak-peek/
[19:46] <Nitsuga> penguin42, yeah, the thing I don't understand is why just 3 times
[19:46] <popey> \o/
[19:46] <popey> it doesn't matter
[19:46] <sebsebseb> popey: oh that high lights you?
[19:46] <popey> the music downloads directly to your u1 folder
[19:46] <penguin42> Nitsuga: Probably to stop someone giving there account to people so hundreds of people download it
[19:46] <Nitsuga> for example Microsoft allows you to download a bought prouct as many times you want. And it does have DRM.
[19:47] <Nitsuga> penguin42,       ↑
[19:47] <popey> so you're unlikely to ever need to download more than once
[19:47] <popey> given it's automagically synced to the cloud
[19:47] <popey> http://popey.com/blog/2010/02/20/u1-music-store-store-music-in-u1/ <- see that one too
[19:47] <sebsebseb> popey: Did the URL high light you?
[19:47] <popey> yes
[19:48] <Nitsuga> popey, penguin42, and because of that you can put it in publc folder and allow hundreds of people to downlaod it
[19:48] <popey> you could
[19:48] <popey> i woudln't recommend you do
[19:48] <popey> but you could
[19:48] <ActionParsnip> Popey: if you run a web facing ssh server you can have all the storage on your system accessible anywhere without u1
[19:49] <popey> not sure what that has to do with it
[19:49] <popey> you _could_ do a lot of things
[19:49] <popey> average users will not
[19:49]  * penguin42 is wondering if the intent is that you are *allowed* to download it onto 3 different machines
[19:49] <ActionParsnip> Popey: u1 costs, your own fileserver is free and gives you control
[19:49] <popey> u1 is free up to 2GB
[19:50] <popey> and yes, you could store it on dropbox, your own server, whatever
[19:50] <penguin42> anyway, all talk
[19:50] <popey> I never said you couldn't
[19:50] <SwedeMike> arand: good call, I had forgotten about it. will check now.
[19:50] <arand> SwedeMike: Cheers
[19:50] <popey> merely that the default for u1 music store is that it puts it in a folder that is automagically synced via u1 so the "only 3 downloads" is considerably less of an issue than it's made out to be
[19:50] <ActionParsnip> Popey: you can have as much storage as you can cram into the server or mount fileshares to using ssh server. Makes 2gb look paltry
[19:50] <popey> dude
[19:51] <popey> why do you persist in telling me these things?
[19:51] <popey> I am aware of what is technically possible on this planet
[19:51] <ActionParsnip> I just think u1 is a lot overhyped
[19:51] <popey> dont use it then
[19:51] <popey> simples
[19:51] <Nitsuga> ActionParsnip, yeah, dropbbox 50GB = 20 US dollars. VPS 1TB=100Dollars. Make the math
[19:52] <ActionParsnip> I don't *funny noise the meerkat makes* ;)
[19:52] <sebsebseb> Nitsuga: VPS???
[19:52] <popey> sebsebseb: virtual private server
[19:53] <sebsebseb> popey: oh ok ty
[19:53] <ZykoticK9> So there seems to be about 50 more people in this channel then usual - everyone waiting for Alpha 3 eh?
[19:53] <penguin42> hmm, I've just apt-get updated, may as well reboot and see if it works
[19:54] <sebsebseb> ZykoticK9: well alpha 3 is why I am in here again
[19:54] <ZykoticK9> sebsebseb, i'm guess you and about 40 other people :)
[19:59] <sebsebseb> topic change :D
[19:59] <sebsebseb> alpha 3 is released!
[19:59] <pa> ok, karmic works
[20:00] <pa> on virtualbox
[20:00] <pa> lucid doesnt
[20:00] <ActionParsnip> Yay channel message changed. Its out
[20:01] <arand> pa: Which version are you on (Host)?
[20:01] <pa> lucid daily amd64
[20:01] <pa> from today
[20:01] <SwedeMike> arand: I'm going to have a 32bit host and 32bit client
[20:01] <SwedeMike> arand: distupgrading is taking some time though...
[20:03] <arand> SwedeMike: Ok
[20:03] <penguin42> well, an upto-date version seems to boot on that-> machine
[20:03] <arand> pa: So you are running virtualbox from lucid daily?
[20:04] <pa> YES
[20:04] <pa> yes
[20:04] <pa> sorry
[20:07] <arand> pa: bug #
[20:07] <arand> pa: Bug #510571 ?
[20:07] <pa> mmh..
[20:07] <pa> what does it mean "wont boot with acpi?"
[20:08] <pa> what happens is : i get the boot menu
[20:08] <pa> and whatever i choose (run live, install)
[20:08] <pa> black screen and it hangs
[20:08] <SwedeMike> pa: the kernel won't boot properly without acpi=off
[20:08] <arand> pa: So you are booting off the liveCD, installed virtualbox and then booting a liveCD inside virtualbox on the liveCD again?
[20:08] <pa> no
[20:09] <pa> i have installed lucid
[20:09] <pa> then i tried to isntall lucid on vbox
[20:09] <arand> pa: SwedeMike: Or turning off acpi in virtualbox.
[20:09] <arand> SwedeMike: Ah, then it seems he just tested what I asked you :)
[20:09] <SwedeMike> arand: check. I'm distupgrading my client now just to make sure everything is recent, both host and client, will try to reboot without acpi=off soon.
[20:10] <penguin42> on the alpha3 page the 'Netbook live CDΩ entries are somewhat confusing - I think they are probably wrong and one is referring to images
[20:11] <penguin42> hmm they are - remind me how does one report an error on that page?
[20:11] <arand> pa: So it works when you switch off acpi in virtualbox or boot the liveCD inside with option acpi=off
[20:11] <pa> i have a slightly OT question: if i choose lan = NAT on vbox, then can i connect to the host via "local net"?
[20:11] <penguin42> pa: It depends what is running on the host
[20:12] <pa> lucid, in this case
[20:12] <Refried_> i'm trying to run lucid in a chroot, and i'm having a weird problem — sudo is saying "can't open /etc/sudoers: Permission denied", but the permission is 0440 root:root.  i tried running strace sudo but didn't see any clues.   any ideas?
[20:12] <pa> but i dont see any new network interface
[20:12] <penguin42> pa: no, I mean what services
[20:12] <pa> uh? what do you mean
[20:12] <ubuntujenkins> alpha 3 is out http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/alpha-3/
[20:13] <pa> i meant, can i connect to some host local network address from the guest ?
[20:13] <penguin42> Refried_: The strace won't work anyway, but can you check the perms on your /usr/bin/sudo - they should be -rwsr-xr-x  and owned by root/root
[20:13] <pa> or the guest is "isolated"?
[20:13] <pa> and can go only to the internet
[20:13] <penguin42> pa: Yes, but not necessary all services will listen on the host local address
[20:13] <pa> oh ok
[20:13] <Refried_> penguin42: *nod* "-rwsr-xr-x+ 2 root root 127664 Feb  9 00:17 /usr/bin/sudo"
[20:13] <pa> penguin42, but i dont see any additional network interface on the host
[20:14] <penguin42> Refried_: Hmph - where did that + come from?
[20:14] <pa> i only have a eth with inet address
[20:14] <pa> and a lo
[20:14] <pa> so to which address would the gueset connect?
[20:14] <arand> ubuntujenkins: not until the official announcement it ain't... Mirrors need to sync etc. but yea, that's very proably the proper a3 yes...
[20:14] <ZykoticK9> pa, if you use Bridged instead of NAT it will get an IP address same as a regular computer on your network (assuming you have DHCP of course)
[20:14] <penguin42> pa: I'm not sure how virtualbox does it?
[20:14] <pa> oh ok
[20:14] <pa> no, actually i want to prevent
[20:14] <pa> that the guest can access the host via localnet
[20:15] <pa> there is this folder sharing, that is enough for me
[20:15] <ubuntujenkins> arand its on the planet http://planet.ubuntu.com/ posted by ubuntu release blog
[20:15] <SwedeMike> arand: oki, default everything regarding ACPI, host 32bit, client 32bit, both dist-upgraded, I can boot the client with both acpi=off and without it.
[20:15] <penguin42> pa: You could always setup firewall rules on the host I think if all else fails
[20:15] <pa> yes true, however i cant see any additional network interface
[20:15] <Refried_> penguin42: good question.   … i don't know what the + means… it seems like everything that isn't special (links, mount points) has the + when I ls -l
[20:16] <pa> so i wouldnt know what should i firewall.. :(
[20:16] <penguin42> Refried_: Hmm
[20:16] <arand> SwedeMike: Just to make sure, the acpi is enabled in virtualbox?
[20:16] <SwedeMike> arand: trying to find it
[20:17]  * penguin42 fails to find where to report a website error
[20:17] <SwedeMike> arand: there are several mentions of ACPI stuff in dmesg on the client.
[20:18] <SwedeMike> acpi shutdown in vbox tells client that I pressed the button
[20:18] <SwedeMike> that should indicate that acpi is fully enabled, right?
[20:19] <arand> Yea, it should..
[20:19] <Refried_> penguin42: looks like the ls producing the +'s is version 7.4
[20:19] <penguin42> Refried_: The +'s normally mena something - acl's or the like
[20:19] <Refried_> hmmm
[20:20] <SwedeMike> arand: anything else you want me to test before I shut this down?
[20:20] <Refried_> know anywhere I can find out what?  "+" is hard to google for...
[20:20] <arand> Ok, so then I would guess that the fix is already in Lucid then...
[20:20] <arand> SwedeMike: Not that I know of now no, cheers
[20:20] <penguin42> Refried_: According to the ls info pages (grrr) 'A file with any other combination of alternate access methods is marked with a `+' character.'
[20:21] <arand> pa: Did switching acpi off fix booting for you?
[20:21] <SwedeMike> arand: skål!
[20:21] <pa> arand, didnt try. im installing karmic to be on the safe side :)
[20:21] <pa> that one works
[20:21] <penguin42> Refried_: try lsattr -v /usr/bin/sudo    (you've not been trying chattr have you?)
[20:21] <Refried_> penguin42: sorry, i tried checking the info, but didn't have it installed yet…   hehe no i haven't been chattring manually
[20:21] <Refried_> let me try that
[20:22] <Refried_><PHONE_NUMBER> ------------------- /usr/bin/sudo
[20:22] <penguin42> Refried_: Hmm - mine has an 'e' in the output of that
[20:22] <arand> SwedeMike: hehe :) cheers==tack/hej/skål (änvändbart I say..)
[20:22] <yofel> penguin42: the 'e' should be for 'extends' in ext4
[20:23] <Refried_> ah *nod*
[20:23] <penguin42> hmm in that case that should be irrelevant
[20:23] <penguin42> then why does he have the + ?
[20:23] <Refried_> *nod* mine is ext3… but again, i'm in a chroot
[20:23] <penguin42> (or more to the point, his error)
[20:23] <penguin42> Refried_: Aj
[20:24] <penguin42> Refried_: Ah, a chroot - on what? How is that mounted?
[20:24] <SwedeMike> arand: japp, vet! thought it was fun to play with it though.
[20:24] <Refried_> penguin42: so, i set it up using lucid's debootstrap.  i'm trying to set up a functional system within the barebones linux on my NAS
[20:25] <penguin42> Refried_: OK, so now, own up - exactly what filesystem is that installation on?
[20:25] <Refried_> it uses a custom kernel which i dont' have patches for:  2.6.23N4100PRO… the filesystem is ext3
[20:26] <penguin42> Refried_: and are you on that machine or over the network from it?
[20:26] <Refried_> ssh in
[20:26] <Refried_> penguin42: it doesn't have vga, etc
[20:26]  * penguin42 lowers glasses down beak and looks at Refried_
[20:26] <Refried_> haha, beak
[20:26] <Refried_> penguin42: well i guess it has some vga hardware, but no video connector
[20:27] <penguin42> Refried_: OK, so if you do a 'mount' what does it show about the filesystem that you've got it debootstrapped onto?
[20:28] <Refried_> penguin42: ext3 — or maybe I still don't udnerstand the question?
[20:28] <penguin42> Refried_: Any mount options? nosuid? noexec? or the like?
[20:28] <Refried_> rw,noatime,data=writeback
[20:28] <penguin42> hmm reasonable; have you mounted a /proc and a /dev in there as well?
[20:29] <penguin42> getting debootstraps to work is always a PITA
[20:29] <Refried_> penguin42: i have proc mounted, and dev/pts… maybe i missed /dev though, i don't see it in the mount output
[20:30] <Refried_> 1 sec
[20:32] <Refried_> penguin42: i'm having trouble sorting out the paths in `mount`, i can't tell which ones are relative to the chroot
[20:32] <Refried_> 1 sec
[20:32] <penguin42> yeh, it's always fun
[20:33]  * sebsebseb is waiting for alpha 3 to load up in vm, the live session
[20:35] <arand> Ah, there goes the offical email announce.
[20:36] <Refried_> gah, i rebooted it by mistake running /etc/rc6.d/* stop within the chroot, trying to get /dev to be unmountable
[20:36] <penguin42> yeuch - the boot gets the same fedora style creeping blue bar
[20:36] <Refried_> anyway, i'll try again more carefully with the filesystems once it comes up again
[20:36] <sebsebseb> arand:  pa  I should turn off acpi in Virtualbox really for this vm or?
[20:37] <Refried_> penguin: but i've got another question — /dev in the host … well, the host has different group  numbers than lucid uses… so, i don't really want to mount —bind /dev, do i?  is there some way to recreate the device nodes within the chroot?
[20:37] <arand> sebsebseb: if it fails to boot yes, either in virtualbox or boot with acpi=off
[20:37] <sebsebseb> arand: well it was being slow to boot again
[20:37] <sebsebseb> arand: I quit it
[20:37] <sebsebseb> something like this when I did alpha 1 and 2 as well
[20:37] <penguin42> netbook alpha3 i386 fails to start GUI properly in KVM guest
[20:37] <arand> sebsebseb: Lucid host or Karmic?
[20:37] <sebsebseb> arand: neither
[20:37] <sebsebseb> arand: Mandriva host
[20:37] <sebsebseb> and it's  Virtualbox OSE
[20:38] <skydrome> can anyone tell me what the default font is on xchat?
[20:38] <kubian> hi.. I think the Kubuntu welcomehtml in the slide show is wrong
[20:38] <kubian> Thank you for choosing Kubuntu 10.04, the Karmic Koala!
[20:39] <arand> sebsebseb: ah, it's probably the same bug though, since according to it every vbox prior to 3.1.4 *should* see the bug...
[20:39] <sebsebseb> arand: it's 3.0.8  the  Virtualbox I have installed
[20:40] <BluesKaj-Laptop> so is the alpha 3 coming down the pipe yet ? I have karmic on this lappy, but Lucid is installed on my desktop.
[20:40] <penguin42> BluesKaj-Laptop: Yes!
[20:41] <penguin42> BluesKaj-Laptop: How do you mean you aren't running it yet?
[20:41] <arand> BluesKaj-Laptop: released and announced..
[20:41] <sebsebseb> arand: thanks that's working much better now
[20:41] <sebsebseb> arand: also like with the previous alpha's  Plymouth looks like the one Fedora has
[20:41] <BluesKaj-Laptop> well, it wasn't on my my server mirror 2 hrs ago , arand
[20:42] <sebsebseb> arand: still waiting for this thing to properly load up, but it will get there
[20:42] <arand> sebsebseb: Hmm, I assume all distros will end up seeing this issue on vbox..
[20:42] <sebsebseb> just had the log in sound
[20:42] <malev> hi there! is there anyone who is using gwibber in lucid ???
[20:43] <sebsebseb> arand: looks rather similar to what I tried before
[20:43] <sebsebseb> altough  I don't think Applications had  an Ubuntu logo next to it before, that must be new
[20:44] <arand> sebsebseb: Yea, not much visual stuff ends up in the alphas from my experience.. but I really don't know the ways of the ayatana team..
[20:45] <sebsebseb> arand: yeah same here from mine regarding the visual
[20:45] <sebsebseb> I done previous versions of Ubuntu when in development as well
[20:45] <sebsebseb> that time round actsual psyical installs as well
[20:48] <sebsebseb> arand: well  this was the most fun thing what I just done, well what it ended up doing.  On the social features some sort of switch from Ubuntu button that would try and go to log in screen it seems, but woudn't load up properly. so I am getting  uhmm squares and such,  can't relly describe it
[20:48] <sebsebseb> a bit of fun to play with though :D
[20:48] <arand> sebsebseb: Well, in case you want to report the bug on mandriva there is the relevant upstream link with the relevant changesets mentioned, from the LP Bug #510571
[20:48] <penguin42> sebsebseb: the netbook version isn't much happier in kvm
[20:48] <sebsebseb> arand: Next Mandriva will get a later version of Virtualbox OSE in it's repo
[20:49] <sebsebseb> penguin42: when karmic was in development, there was an issue with one of the versions when it came to vm's
[20:49] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Nod, being able to boot itself in it's supplied VM system would be a good test
[20:50] <sebsebseb> penguin42: got to boot from a CD for more real experience really, but that would be a waste of a CD, doing alpha 3 from one
[20:50] <arand> sebsebseb: Hmm, dunno how mandriva does things, so it's more of a rolling thing going on there?
[20:50] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well KVM is the server version and such mainly?   Virtualbox is what most home users will use on Ubuntu
[20:50] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I don't see why, kvm has a nice GUI as well and is fully integrated in the kernel
[20:51] <sebsebseb> arand: I seem to get updates nearly every day on Mandriva which is annoying.  As for later packages I think it's mainly wait for the  next one, or use 3rd party stuff.
[20:51] <penguin42> sebsebseb: The nice thing about virtualbox is it works on older machines (as long as you don't want 64bit guest()
[20:51] <sebsebseb> arand: or install yourself
[20:51] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Yeah I don't have hardware virtaulization on this machine
[20:51] <sebsebseb> and it's not 64bit also
[20:51] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Ah right
[20:52] <sebsebseb> this computer is from March 2007 if I remember the month correctly
[20:52] <sebsebseb> pretty standard hardware really, 1GB RAM,  Intel Pentium D, came with Vista Home Premium
[20:52] <sebsebseb> Nivida graphics card
[20:52] <arand> Now I'm just interested if hardy/intrepid sees the same issue as well..
[20:52] <sebsebseb> arand: Intrepid will run out of support when Lucid comes out, or around then
[20:53] <sebsebseb> shame really since 8.10 is a  pretty good version
[20:53] <arand> Yea, questionable if one should bother about backportin the fix to there, but if I'm at it I might as well I guess..
[20:54] <sebsebseb> arand: I think it might be trying to load the log in screen now I don't know,  I got a blue screen, that then says on  bottom right.  Thu  8:54 PM   anyway vm's can be quite fun sometimes
[20:55] <sebsebseb> blue screen?  that was meant to be black
[20:57] <arand> What I find annyoing is that you can't run virtualbox inside virtualbox, something which would facilitate the testing considerably..
[20:57] <sebsebseb> arand:  What does faciltate mean?
[20:57] <sebsebseb> arand: make it fast?
[20:57] <burivoy> hi there
[20:58] <burivoy> could someone explain me why GNOME does not start in Lucid?
[20:58] <burivoy> after upgrade
[20:59] <arand> Simplify, is at least what I'm synonymising it as..
[20:59] <penguin42> arand: It's like a stack of turtles, one vm inside another....
[20:59] <penguin42> burivoy: What graphics hardware?
[20:59] <Nitsuga> burivoy, "doesnt start" is something very vague, explain a bit please
[20:59] <burivoy> ATI 9000 IGP
[20:59] <burivoy> HP Pavilion zv5000
[21:01] <burivoy> O'K, I enter my login and password and everithing gets frozen
[21:01] <Nitsuga> burivoy, ohh that's a known issue
[21:01] <Nitsuga> the enter key freezes X
[21:01] <burivoy> where is config for X?
[21:01] <Nitsuga> I you can unfreeze the system with alt-PrintScreen-K
[21:01] <Nitsuga> burivoy,       ↑
[21:02] <burivoy> did not try it
[21:02] <Nitsuga> burivoy, in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (may not exist) anyway there is nothing in the configuration file that can solve that
[21:02] <burivoy> there is no configuration file
[21:02] <Nitsuga> burivoy, that's normal
[21:02] <burivoy> is going to be solved?
[21:03] <Nitsuga> burivoy, I hope so
[21:03] <burivoy> the enter key freezes X sounds like joke
[21:03] <Nitsuga> burivoy, yeah, that's bizarre
[21:04] <Nitsuga> burivoy, another way to freeze it is by writing a @
[21:04]  * penguin42 would love to know the cause of that
[21:04] <burivoy> typing, you mean?
[21:05] <Nitsuga> burivoy, yeah
[21:05] <burivoy> I've spent a couple of days without sound, in a complete silence, and NTFS external hard drives could not be mounted for a while.
[21:06] <burivoy> Looks like this issue has been solved recently.
[21:06] <Nitsuga> penguin42, I think i know it. plymouth assumes that it can write to the tty (because for it KMS is working) and tryes to do that on the X screen, freezing it
[21:06] <penguin42> Nitsuga: Ah wacky
[21:06] <Nitsuga> *tries
[21:07] <Nitsuga> penguin42, you know the mandriva's "press alt-2 for text mode" don't you?
[21:07] <penguin42> no
[21:07] <Nitsuga> that's why the @ symbols freezes it, too
[21:07] <Nitsuga> penguin42, well mandriva uses plymouth
[21:08] <Nitsuga> penguin42, and some key cominations do things on plymouth
[21:08] <Nitsuga> enter refreshes the screen
[21:08] <Nitsuga> and alt-2 switches to a tty
[21:09]  * penguin42 wonders why it's named after Plymouth
[21:11] <burivoy> Alt+PrntScrn+K is an accord? I mean these keys to be pressed simultanuosly?
[21:11] <Nitsuga> burivoy, forgot about the workaround: 1) use the numpad enter 2) uninstall plymount 3) reinstall first xserver-xorg-video-intel and he reinstall your video driver xserver-xorg-video-radeon
[21:11] <Nitsuga> burivoy, yes
[21:12] <Nitsuga> burivoy, * 2) uninstall plymouth
[21:12] <seanbrystone> Im not seeing a link to download Ubuntu alpha 3, only Kubuntu and Server wth?
[21:13] <seanbrystone> err nvm blind as a bat
[21:13] <burivoy> Thanks a lot, I'll try it right now.
[21:15] <burivoy> What this plymouth is needed for?
[21:16] <arand> Meant to make faster bootup..
[21:16] <JontheEchidna> faster bootup? not really. it's just the splash screen
[21:16] <ZykoticK9> burivoy, arand Plymouth doesn't make bootup faster - just prettier
[21:17] <yofel> we need a ubottu factoid for plymouth, !plymouth does nothing
[21:17] <Machtin> oh, alpha 3 released. excellent :)
[21:17] <penguin42> yofel: How about 'A city on the cost of Devon, England'
[21:18] <yofel> penguin42: good XD
[21:18] <arand> Hmm, possibly but I can swear I've heard that plymouth was part of the fast-boot thingy.. anyways.
[21:18] <yofel> arand: you don't by chance mean ureadahead?
[21:19] <arand> Or maybe it was the "smooth" boot I'm confusing it with
[21:19] <soee_> is there kubuntu alpha 3 also ?
[21:19] <yofel> soee_: sure
[21:20] <soee_> yofel: did u tested it ?
[21:22] <yofel> soee_: well, I'm using kubuntu lucid since a while ago and kde 4.4 is nice, but i have a few issues with the desktop search and the weather plasma applet has a weird crash that isn't fixed in kubuntu yet
[21:22] <yofel> other than that it  works fine here
[21:22] <soee_> yofel: thers no problem with starting desktop etc ?
[21:22] <yofel> soee_: not here
[21:23] <yofel> the only issues I had were plymouth related
[21:23] <soee_> yofel: and before u were on 9.10?
[21:23] <yofel> had to purge it to get the pc to boot with the nvidia driver
[21:24] <yofel> soee_: I used 9.10 but I'm using lucid since about alpha1
[21:24] <soee_> yofel: and are there eny visible improvements ?
[21:24] <soee_> *any
[21:24] <soee_> im on 9.10 and im wondering if its time to switch to 10.04
[21:24] <Nitsuga> I personally liked xsplash. It gave no issues during the alphas and was pretty, this plymouth onlyy works in KVM, makes my screen flicker and it is nothing near of smooth.
[21:25] <Nitsuga> and the default splash screen is too.. boring
[21:25] <yofel> Nitsuga: KMS, not KVM ;)
[21:25] <Nitsuga> yeah, KMS
[21:26] <yofel> soee_: hard to say, best you get a live disk and try it out yourself
[21:27] <soee_> yofel: can u support me with some link to alpha3 of kubuntu?
[21:27] <seanbrystone> soee_, alpha3 just arrived :D
[21:27] <Nitsuga> soee_, see the topic ;)
[21:27] <Nitsuga> soee_, www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/Alpha3
[21:27] <yofel> soee_: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/ ;)
[21:27] <soee_> tjank you
[21:27] <soee_> *thank
[21:28] <Nitsuga> soee_, downloading via bittorrent will be faster and more reliable. You should download using bittorrent
[21:28] <soee_> i like it: See our release page for where to get it, new features __and notable problems.__ :D
[21:28] <yofel> soee_: also, you should always read the 'Known Issues' on the release page please
[21:29] <yofel> :)
[21:30] <soee_> yofel: ur on 64 bit ?
[21:30] <NateW> what would "stdin error 0" from a live cd mean?
[21:30] <yofel> soee_: I have 64 and 32 bit installations here (different pcs)
[21:30] <soee_> oks
[21:31] <yofel> NateW: in what context? boot, login, install, ...?
[21:31] <NateW> yofel: booting using the latest daily build.. the live cd never ends up booting
[21:32] <NateW> yofel: more specifics are in bug # 526170
[21:32] <yofel> bug 526170
[21:36] <charlie-tca> It takes my 1.5GHz system about 8 minutes to get a display on the desktop cd after the menu...
[21:38] <NateW> charlie-tca: i have an Intel Q9550 and an Nvidia 250 GTS, it should not take 8 minutes
[21:38] <charlie-tca> Mine should not take 8 minutes either, but it does
[21:38] <BluesKaj-Laptop> I don't see any alpha 3 upgrades on my lucid desktop. I guess it depends where you are before they are released to one's location/server, altho I'm using the mainserver.
[21:38] <charlie-tca> It takes me 13-18 minutes total to get the desktop display
[21:39] <NateW> i did leave it on a couple days ago for 30 min, but it didnt do anything
[21:39] <NateW> thats strange why it takes so long.. are you running with nvidia?
[21:39] <charlie-tca> I am running an NVidia 6200 video card, 1.5GHz cpu, 1GB ram
[21:39] <charlie-tca> Once installed, it takes about 15 seconds to boot
[21:40] <BluesKaj-Laptop> charlie-tca, nvidia-glx-185 dricer?
[21:40] <BluesKaj-Laptop> driver
[21:40] <charlie-tca> but the desktop cd still takes 8 minutes from the menu selection to the gdm login, and 13-18 minutes total from menu to desktop
[21:40] <BluesKaj-Laptop> wow
[21:40] <charlie-tca> BluesKaj-Laptop: live cd, no hardware driver installed
[21:40] <NateW> i definitely hope this is fixed for the final version. i wonder if using 2.6.33 kernel with nouveau built in may have fixed these issues
[21:41] <BluesKaj-Laptop> charlie-tca, ok
[21:41] <charlie-tca> It seems to be issues with nvidia and plymouth
[21:41] <arand> BluesKaj-Laptop: alpha3-upgrades, in what way?, if anything the release would mean that there are no upgrades afaik..
[21:42] <NateW> well im going to go and try leaving it booting for another 30 min and report back.
[21:43] <BluesKaj-Laptop> arand, I'm not not on alpha3 afaik , that's my concern ...i don't see the updates coming down from the server , I assume a new kernel update at least
[21:43] <jpapertowel> Hi, has the issue with lucid and software RAID been fixed yet?
[21:43] <arand> BluesKaj-Laptop: you are not on -14 ?
[21:46] <BluesKaj-Laptop> arand, yeah 2.6.32-14-generic
[21:47] <arand> BluesKaj-Laptop: That's the current then..
[21:47] <BluesKaj-Laptop> that came down a couple of days ago
[21:50] <BluesKaj-Laptop> heh cool , I ssh'd into my desktop and launched knonverstion there as well
[21:51] <BluesKaj> see
[21:51] <charlie-tca> I believe alpha3 had the -14 kernel
[21:51] <charlie-tca> I ran many tests of the iso images, and never saw anything higher
[21:52] <BluesKaj-Laptop> uname -a
[21:52] <arand> I heard something about the plan being to stick on that as well, unless bugfixing is needed I guess..
[21:53] <arand> Although the kernel freeze isn't until th 11th so I might be wrong there..
[22:06] <NateW> wow.. that took an unbelievably long time
[22:07] <NateW> charlie-tca: is there a bug report for that yet?
[22:07] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:07] <charlie-tca> bug 527832
[22:08] <ebischoff> Hi folks. I moved to Kubuntu lucid. Everything works great. Excellent work. Congrats!!!
[22:08] <charlie-tca> NateW: Kind of crazy, huh?
[22:09] <NateW> charlie-tca: yeah.. its really annoying as well since i do a fresh install every week to test the proprietary drivers.. i hope its fixed soon
[22:09] <charlie-tca> I do test installs daily
[22:09] <pa> any idea why i get "protocol error" when i try to write to a succesfully mounted shared folder in virtualbox?
[22:09] <charlie-tca> but I stumbled on that one by accident
[22:12] <NateW> charlie-tca: is this only related to nvidia, or does this also happen using intel/ati?
[22:12] <charlie-tca> I don't know. I only have nvidia cards
[22:12] <NateW> same
[22:13]  * charlie-tca has ati, too, but not installed
[22:13] <seanbrystone> i get cant install bootloader when installing alpha3 on Vmware is this normal?
[22:14] <dupondje> somebody knows if there is a way to integrate programms running on a remote windows pc, to integrate them into ubuntu ? like they are native programms ?
[22:14] <DanaG> google for seamlessrdpshell
[22:14]  * BluesKaj-Laptop has nvidia on all machines and an onboard ati that's disabled
[22:14] <charlie-tca> I just did not feel like installing and testing the ati card, when it takes so much to get anything done
[22:15] <charlie-tca> After running tests for two days, I thought that was enough for me today.
[22:16] <seanbrystone> i get cant install bootloader when installing alpha3 on Vmware is this normal?
[22:16] <charlie-tca> seanbrystone: don't think so
[22:16] <seanbrystone> hmmm
[22:16] <seanbrystone> guess ill wait till alpha 4 LMAO!
[22:17] <charlie-tca> I use virtualbox, myself
[22:17] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: There isn't one, Beta 1 is next.
[22:17] <seanbrystone> i might try it in vbox
[22:17] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, ah, even better :D
[22:20] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: looks like around next Thursday is when to expect more eye candy :)
[22:20] <seanbrystone> nice
[22:20] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Hopefuly yeah
[22:20] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: I don't like the Karmic look much at all
[22:21] <seanbrystone> im getting really sick of the brown theme, release after release, same brown (i know it can be changed by the user, but still)
[22:21] <espen77> u1 working for you?
[22:21] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: well apparantly they are going to start using lighter themes
[22:21] <seanbrystone> cool
[22:21] <dupondje> any screens ? :)
[22:21] <BUGabundo> boas noutes
[22:22] <dupondje> pfft slow mdadm :(
[22:22] <Nitsuga> I would like a sunshine-caramel brown
[22:22] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Even better eye candy probably won't win me over to Lucid,  I mean Long Term Lucid useage
[22:22] <Nitsuga> I know, that color doesn't exists
[22:23] <Nitsuga> but you can imagine it
[22:23] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Ubuntu isn't really for people like me anymore, it seems
[22:24] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: if it's good enough with "average computer users"  it might gain a bit more of a proper market share
[22:25] <BUGabundo> so what did I lose today?
[22:25] <BUGabundo> I could not reach my laptop, from work, so no IRC and no testing
[22:25] <BUGabundo> darn DHCP wouldn't work
[22:26] <dupondje> BUGabundo: seems to have all bugs that are in Lucid @ once ? ;)
[22:27] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, oh? what is your distro of choice then? Sorry i was AFK
[22:27] <BUGabundo> dupondje: who?
[22:29] <seanbrystone> yay vmware loaded ubuntu without bootloader (donno how it did that, but it works) :)
[22:29] <dupondje> you ;)
[22:29] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: depends on the computer and the user,  for other people i'll  recommend Ubuntu or Mandriva these days. So for example it's still Ubuntu on the other computer which my brothers are using.   For my own computer I am doing Mandriva not Ubuntu, since I wasn't impressed with 9.10.
[22:29] <seanbrystone> mandriva is pretty nice, although it's been a couple years since ive played with it
[22:31] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: a few little issues that effected me, just litlte things nothing major, but yep latest release is pretty nice.
[22:31] <seanbrystone> doesnt mandriva cost?
[22:32] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: a bit off topic now, but  well  three versions,  Mandriva free only free software,    Mandriva One which is also the Live CD,  and a Power Pack which is paid for,  some support and commercial apps or something.
[22:32] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: so only one version costs
[22:33] <seanbrystone> ah ok
[22:33] <seanbrystone> think ill stick with something that is TOTALLY free :)
[22:34] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: as in price?
[22:34] <seanbrystone> mainly, yep
[22:34] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Well Ubuntu isn't anymore, take  Ubuntu One for example,  2GB free space if you want more you pay.   Also Lucid will have that Music Store where  people can buy music.   As for freedom no Ubuntu is not a 100% free software distro.
[22:35] <sebsebseb> !freedom
[22:35] <seanbrystone> yeah good point :)
[22:36] <seanbrystone> but, but there is a big difference from a feature such as cloud storage, and necessary software
[22:36] <seanbrystone> but yeah, way off topic for here sorry
[22:37] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: well the stuff in Mandriva's Powerpack is not needed in the other versions,  in fact their is 3rd party stuff for free, for quite a lot of those programs, or something like that.   Debian is 100% free as far as I know, and GnewSense is.
[22:38] <seanbrystone> yeah i know about those two
[22:38] <dupondje> debian is free indeed
[22:38] <dupondje> but then you miss codecs / nvidia drivers / etc ..
[22:39] <dupondje> you can't have all :(
[22:39] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: Two types of distro's those from companies who want to make a profit, and those from community's who aren't about making a profit.   Yes the commercial distros such as Ubuntu and Mandriva have non paid developers as well.
[22:39] <arand> dupondje: They are available though, aren't they?
[22:39] <sebsebseb> dupondje: you could install that stuff your self into Debian
[22:39] <dupondje> offcouse you can, but its not default ...
[22:40] <dupondje> makes it less easy
[22:40] <dupondje> need to use external repositories .. etc
[22:40] <arand> dupondje: it isn't really default in ubuntu either, altough easier..
[22:40] <sebsebseb> dupondje: well no MP3 and AVI and such support by default with Ubuntu, because of legal reasons, however it is easy to install after woulds.
[22:40] <seanbrystone> sebsebseb, yeah, but the ones that are totally free are pretty stripped since they cant/wont pay for developers
[22:43] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I wonder if they have a story for that with the music store
[22:43] <seanbrystone> my keyboard not working in alpha3 :*(
[22:43] <penguin42> seanbrystone: PS/2 or USB? Anything odd about it? Any other USB devices plugged in?
[22:43] <sebsebseb> seanbrystone: well the community distros such as Debian will need to get fudning from some where,  for example  companies.  Then we have this as well,  Fedora the community version, and Redhat Enterprise Linux the commercial and Redhat give money to Fedora.  Just like how we have Novell and now Microsoft as well since the deal they  made, with their Novell Suse Enterprise Linux.  OpenSuse is the community version,  and Novell do the funding.
[22:43] <seanbrystone> penguin42, usb, using vmware
[22:44] <penguin42> seanbrystone: You mean it's running in vmware?
[22:44] <seanbrystone> lol now it through me into the login screen
[22:44] <seanbrystone> yeah penguin42
[22:44] <sebsebseb> penguin42: A story for what?
[22:45] <penguin42> sebsebseb: If they have the music store appear by default it will be pretty odd if you can't play what you download
[22:45] <sebsebseb> penguin42: it's there in rythombox
[22:45] <sebsebseb> penguin42: already read that kind of thing on the web, what you just put there
[22:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: in a way yes, a bit odd,  that they have a store for formats that Ubuntu can't even play by default.  On the other hand so what, since users who want that, will install the MP3 codec anyway.
[22:46] <seanbrystone> penguin42, i fixed it i had to go into keyboard prefs, and manually add a USA keyboard
[22:46] <seanbrystone> :)
[22:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well I assuming that those who want to use the music store, will have the codecs needed installed
[22:47] <seanbrystone> perhaps vmware just didnt pick up the usb keyboard, for one reason or another , i doubt it was a ubuntu bug
[22:47] <arand> I think rhythmbox will have a specific mp3 plugin of some kind..
[22:47] <arand> Dunno what'll happen if you try to play it otherwise though..
[22:48] <sebsebseb> arand: I had an issue trying to install  ubity or whatever it's called would crash
[22:48] <sebsebseb> arand: however I had the live session running from ISO in virtualbox and checked out rythombox
[22:48] <sebsebseb> and yep there's something for the music store
[22:48] <arand> ubiquity?
[22:48] <sebsebseb> arand: yeah that I think
[22:49] <sebsebseb> that's the installer for Ubuntu I think?
[22:49] <sebsebseb> arand: anyway got the message saying the program had crashed a few times, and was able to do a little bit more in the installer, untill it woudn't let me
[22:49] <arand> Well, only thing I can say is check if bug exist, otherwise "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" to report one..
[22:50] <sebsebseb> well if it's going to crash like that,  I won't bother vm'ing alpha 3 this time round
[22:51] <jpapertowel> i've been vm-ing lucid every like 2 days to see if they'll ever fix software raid and boot loaders lol :(
[22:51] <sebsebseb> already did alpha 1 and 2 in vm.   and got an issue or issues eventaully.   It's just another release that looks like Karmic with some changes here and there,  so not that interesting to bother to install to a vm,  for people like me who want to try stuff out here and there.   Just under a week and can can expect proper eye candy backgrounds and such  in Lucid it seems :)
[22:52] <sebsebseb> above maybe not clear enough, I meant alpha 3 is another lucid development release that looks like Karmic
[22:53] <sebsebseb> arand: not sure if I ever done that a bug report
[22:54] <sebsebseb> arand: I would have to mess around re setting launchpad password and such trying to get back into the account, if I can
[22:54] <arand> Well, if it ain't reported, it might not be fixed ;)
[22:55] <sebsebseb> and I don't care enough about Ubuntu anymore, to bother reporting bugs, plus I expect installer bugs will be fixed before the final anyway,  unlike what happended with Fedora 11 it seems,  since it didn't like my Ubuntu partitions, and gave me an error message when I tried to install.  I was going to replace Ubuntu's / with Fedora the time, but it woudn't let me.   Came up saying  there was probably a bug and to report basicalley.
[22:56] <sebsebseb> arand: might of just been a virtual machine issue
[22:56] <sebsebseb> why  I coudn't just install alpha 3 earlier into a vm
[22:58] <sebsebseb> arand: however I had also been using  back and forward buttons about twice, which was probably to do with it
[23:01] <sebsebseb> (at the time above,  correcting something when I don't really need to here,  but if I don't it doesn't make proper sense)
[23:05] <pa> hi
[23:05] <sebsebseb> pa: hi
[23:05] <pa> is it already possible to dist-upgrade from karmic to lucid?
[23:05] <sebsebseb> pa: of course, but  if your going to be using the computer for proper computer useage, I woudn't  recommend it
[23:05] <pa> what do you mean?
[23:05] <sebsebseb> pa: done that kind of thing before with previous versions, got when in development,  used  as my operating system on the computer, and then issues
[23:06] <pa> ah i see
[23:06] <sebsebseb> pa: I mean do Lucid on a test machine or in a virtual machine, or just try from a Live CD
[23:06] <sebsebseb> or Live USB stick if can make one
[23:06] <pa> but so far it seems like it works pretty stable
[23:07] <sebsebseb> pa: it was like that for me with previous versions
[23:07] <sebsebseb> pa: then I ddi upgrades and problems
[23:07] <sebsebseb> did upgrades and problems
[23:07] <pa> i see
[23:07] <sebsebseb> pa: if you start with alpha you will probably get issues before the final, when your doing updates
[23:08] <pa> sebsebseb, so i already have a lucid installed.. do you advice me to upgrade the alpha only when it become final?
[23:08] <sebsebseb> pa: if you start with beta 1 this might be the case also, since beta 1 is  really instead of alpha 4 this time round.  They tend to only do one beta.
[23:08] <pa> i mean, to avoid issues
[23:08] <sebsebseb> pa: probably best to next upgrade when beta 1 comes out to avoide issues,  and then from that one to beta 2 when it's out,  and then beta 2 to the rc when it's out, and then rc to the final
[23:08] <sebsebseb> pa: ,but even that might not be good enough
[23:09] <pa> or an alpha upgraded to final is not the same as a final installed from cd?
[23:09] <sebsebseb> pa: some would say your running the final, if you have upgraded all the way from a final
[23:09] <pa> yes
[23:09] <sebsebseb> maybe you are, but you aren't exactly running the proper thing, if  got development release issues still, right?
[23:10] <sebsebseb> with Karmic I started with alpha 4
[23:10] <sebsebseb> a clean install
[23:10] <pa> in that case, right
[23:10] <Nitsuga> sebsebseb, no, if you want to use 10.10 you have to use update-manager -d again
[23:10] <sebsebseb> and upgraded it all the way to the final, and I still had issues from alpha 4 or 5 or 6
[23:11] <sebsebseb> pa: this also meant that when I did updates,  I wasn't getting what I was meant to have
[23:11] <sebsebseb> or not always getting it
[23:11] <pa> mmhmm..
[23:11] <pa> sound strange tho..
[23:11] <sebsebseb> pa: then I install the final of Karmic and wasn't impressed
[23:11] <pa> if the packets are the same
[23:11] <sebsebseb> Nitsuga: did I miss something, or what?  why you on about 10.10 ?
[23:13] <Nitsuga> sebsebseb, I'm trying to say that when 10.04 final arrives, you will stay in that version, and if you want to use 10.10 you have to do an update-manager -d
[23:14] <sebsebseb> pa: when in development
[23:14] <sebsebseb> pa: the repo's change a lot
[23:14] <sebsebseb> and not just security updates
[23:14] <sebsebseb> pa: when you got a final the default repo's only provide security updates
[23:15] <ryanakca> Hmmm... what's the grub2 equivalent of the old '# defoptions=' in /boot/grub/menu.lst?
[23:15] <Nitsuga> pa, also expect 200MB of updates daily, and  10MB just to check if there are updates
[23:15] <pa> i see..
[23:15] <sebsebseb> pa: so when doing a development version and installing the updates,  the chance of getting an issue as a result of an upgrade is quite high,  but probably less so once it's  beta
[23:15] <Nitsuga> because the universe repo is huge.
[23:16] <pa> but i mean..
[23:16] <BUGabundo> Nitsuga: actually it only counts about 40% of the packages
[23:16] <sebsebseb> pa: also if you want to get  the later stuff a bit early, but also have a system that is probably reasonably stable as well, then it's probably best to wait untill the beta
[23:16] <pa> i installed alpha3 let say because i wanted to avoid to have to reinstall 10.04 final once it is out, but just upgrade it
[23:16] <sebsebseb> pa: or just virtual machine test or Live CD test, as I already mentioned
[23:16] <pa> you are all telling me that i will not have the same system ?
[23:17] <sebsebseb> pa: I am saying your likeing to get some sort of problem,  one where it's best to re install
[23:17] <MaximLevitsky-vm> My personal advice is to install *NOW* but in a VM
[23:17] <sebsebseb> pa: likely not likeing above
[23:17] <pa> i see..
[23:17] <pa> mmh...
[23:17] <pa> well..
[23:17] <pa> then i'llprobably reinstall
[23:17] <pa> what can i do
[23:18] <Nitsuga> pa, you'll have the same system, but with the tweaks you made during the alphas and betas
[23:18] <LADmaticCA> is there a difference between the nvidia 190.53 driver in Hardware Drivers, and the one on nvidia's site?
[23:18] <sebsebseb> pa: if just an end user,  that doesn't want to report bugs,  and doesn't want the distro to look very much like the previous version,  then it's best to wait untill the beta really
[23:18] <pa> Nitsuga, if i dont tweak anything, it will be ok?
[23:18] <sebsebseb> pa: if wanting the feautures a bit earlier
[23:18] <Nitsuga> pa, yeah, i think so
[23:18] <MaximLevitsky-vm> I have being burnt by alpha/beta release every time I try them
[23:18] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, no-way install the nvidia driver from nvidia's website on 10.04
[23:19] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: yes same here, when I had a pshyical install
[23:19] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, I say this to you from my experience
[23:19] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: virtual machine testing this time round,  however that's mainly since I have another distro as host now :)
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky-vm> Surprisingly though, didn't have a single issue now in a VM
[23:19] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: I had issues in vm
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky-vm> I have 9.04 as host and 10.4 as a guest
[23:20] <MaximLevitsky-vm> Vmware player 3.0
[23:20] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, okay. I notice the on in Hardware Drivers seems kinda slow compared to my Jaunty install which uses one from nvidia's site
[23:20] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: oh still on 9.04 :)  so like me wasn't that happy with 9.10 or?
[23:20] <MaximLevitsky-vm> Works damn fast (especially with VMI... :-)
[23:20] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, Jaunty also used a package, it shouldn't be slower
[23:20] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: typo. I have 9.10
[23:20] <MaximLevitsky-vm> as the host
[23:21] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, okay. I think i'll remove this one and try the one off the site. Thanks for responding
[23:23] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, please, please, don't try the one from the site
[23:23] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, don't try it?
[23:23] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, It will break you rsystem and the only way to get direct rendering again will be reinstalling
[23:24] <Nitsuga> 10.04 is NOT compatible with the nvidia-installer .run. Read the release notes.
[23:24] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, wow. I wonder why my graphic performance is kinda slow
[23:24] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: Whcih vm software?
[23:24] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: vmware player 3.0 :-)
[23:25] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: hrm last time I tried vmware player about three  years ago or something,  it wasn't that good
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: not any more....
[23:25] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: maybe I should try again, it will have improved quite a bit since then I guess
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: player got the ability to create VMs
[23:26] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: it  could do that before, but would need something else to make vmx file
[23:26] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: the vm settings
[23:26] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, graphic performance of compiz performance?
[23:26] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: actsaully I think maybe had to use something else to make the vmdk files as well before
[23:26] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, yeah. Like when i drag a window to another workspace it drops frames
[23:27] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: first of all there is now VMI
[23:27] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: VMI what's that
[23:27] <sebsebseb> ?
[23:27] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: a sort of light paravitualization
[23:28] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: what's paravitualization?  you mean paravirtulization? whatever that is
[23:28] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, you may be using indirect rendering. install fusion-icon, launch it check "compiz-options -> Indirect rendering"
[23:28] <MaximLevitsky-vm> linux kernel is modified to do some tasks diffrently in the VM
[23:29] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: the whole thing is included in mainline kernel
[23:29] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: also now vmware has full blown galiium 3d driver....
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: didn't have time to compile it yet...
[23:30] <sebsebseb> not sure what you mean,  maybe like the guest additiosn for virtulbox or something, so then it knows the OS is running in a vm.
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: better that that
[23:30] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: galium  3D driver, you mean for  3D Windows games and such?
[23:30] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, thanks. I'll give that a shot after my updates finish installing
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: no, opengl
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: running compiz in the VM at full speed....
[23:30] <sebsebseb> oh well  Virtualbox has something for OpenGL  as well I think
[23:31] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: yes, but I have seen that vmware put a lot of effor in this
[23:31] <sebsebseb> yeah of course it does, if I remember correctly.   anyway right ok well  i'll give VMware player another try some time
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: the biggest advantage of vmware is really the speed.
[23:32] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: server used to be so much better before though
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: they plugged that hole unfortunelly
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: now server is 'web based...'
[23:32] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: plugged that hole?
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: pure s****t
[23:33] <sebsebseb> !language
[23:33] <LADmaticCA> Nitsuga, Wow man that fixed it. Thanks!
[23:33] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: server was supposed to be used to run servers, but users took it and run desktops in it
[23:33] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: Virtualbox is being slow to load up vm's properly here and there it seems
[23:34] <Nitsuga> LADmaticCA, yay!
[23:34] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: of course since when I last used them,  server could do full screen mode, and player coudn't
[23:34] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: so vmware created server 2.0, and the only way to configure it and view the vm is through firefox...
[23:34] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: and server 1 doesn't run on new kernels
[23:34] <sebsebseb> oh
[23:35] <sebsebseb> oh at the web based server
[23:35] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: this is why I used the censored words...
[23:35] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: last two things you put, I wasn't following, not sure what you mean
[23:36] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: server 1 can't be used anymore
[23:36] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: its kernel modules don't compile, and it is not trivial to port them
[23:36] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: Server 1 can't be used anymore?  You mean the old VMware server product or?
[23:37] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: I mean vmware server 1.0
[23:37] <MaximLevitsky-vm> yes the old one
[23:37] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: oh right ok,  well  didn't know about this stuff before,  things do change though as time goes by
[23:38] <sebsebseb> for the better or for the worse
[23:38] <sebsebseb> things get better or worse as time goes by
[23:39] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: Player used to suck compared to Server, but now it seems it has improved properly and is worth checking out again, from what you put
[23:39] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: yes
[23:39] <penguin42> player didn't used to let you create VMs did it?
[23:39] <penguin42> (but people just wrote utils for it)
[23:39] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: yes
[23:39] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: yes
[23:40] <penguin42> I seem to remember the license is different on server and player in subtle ways
[23:40] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: didn't look at that
[23:40] <MaximLevitsky-vm> :-)
[23:40] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: I think one of them you can't technically use in business
[23:41] <MaximLevitsky-vm> I use this at home, so it doesn't matter here
[23:41] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: ok well thanks for this interesting off topic,  but when will I bother to try this new VMware player hrm
[23:41] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah Player is for home users really or was
[23:42] <sebsebseb> penguin42: server I think was for both home user and buiness, but mainly business, and then workstation is really for business's who want to pay for it
[23:42] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I  thought it was the other way around weirdly, I thought it was server that had the odd license clause
[23:42] <sebsebseb> penguin42: I think VMware server become free as in price,  because Microsoft had something similar
[23:43] <sebsebseb> for free
[23:43] <sebsebseb> as in something to do with VirtualPC I think
[23:43] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: very likely
[23:44] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: plus it used to be called something else if I rmember correctly . ESX server or something like that? was the name I think
[23:44] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: yes
[23:44] <sebsebseb> I don't  know what ESX means
[23:45] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: probably another buzzword...
[23:45] <sebsebseb> !ot | sebsebseb  MaximLevitsky-vm  penguin42
[23:45] <sebsebseb> uh huh at the bot
[23:45] <sebsebseb> @ the bot
[23:45]  * penguin42 giggles at sebsebseb for telling himself off
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky-vm> I am going back to kernel driver writing
[23:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: :)  I have got ubottu to tell me off before like that
[23:46] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: oh you write kernel drivers?
[23:46] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: For what?
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: for my card reader
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: one is done (xD cards)
[23:47] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: oh, but your writing your own driver
[23:47] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: are you open sourceing them as well or?
[23:47] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: waiting and bugging the maintainer for merge
[23:47] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: you mean your contributing to a project, and your trying to get your code accepted?
[23:48] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: Interfaced how?
[23:48] <MaximLevitsky-vm> sebsebseb: yes to the kernel
[23:48] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: ?
[23:48] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: How is the card reader connected to the host
[23:48] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: pci
[23:48] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: Cool
[23:49] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: if you have ricoh reader. you can be sure you will be able to use it fully
[23:50] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: That laptop is TI, I could swear I'd seen a ricoh one somewhere
[23:50] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: alex dubov wrote memstick driver for TI
[23:51] <sebsebseb> MaximLevitsky-vm: ok well that's good that your contributing to the Linux kernel :)
[23:51] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: as soon as I merge the the xD bits, maybe someone will write an xD driver for it
[23:51] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: Cool, device drivers are fun :-)
[23:53] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: jmicon reader that I also have has a memstick driver that alex dubov wrote, and he wrote xD driver
[23:53] <MaximLevitsky-vm> I will also port his xD driver to my interfaces (this wil mean rewrite...) and merge too someday
[23:54] <MaximLevitsky-vm> This is if I will have time
[23:54] <MaximLevitsky-vm> Alex did pretty much same work as I do, but now he works at real job, and thus don't have time to contribute any more
[23:54] <penguin42> MaximLevitsky-vm: I did some drivers for some early ARM systems many years ago
[23:55] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: it is really the best to write drivers
[23:56] <MaximLevitsky-vm> penguin42: I also wrote a driver for IR reciever that my laptop has
[23:56] <histo> !info sun-java6-plugin
[23:56] <histo> What is the package for java plugin?
[23:56] <sebsebseb> !java | histo