[22:40] <tarzeau> someone had posted me that url where the packages in ubuntu are listed and not in debian. could someone post that again? promise to bookmark it this time


[12:48] <smoser> harlowja, thank you.
[12:49] <smoser> harlowja, you can see things for proposed merge into cloud-init's git trunk this way...
[12:50] <smoser>  all the cloud-init repos that launchpad knows about (~user/cloud-init) are viewable at  https://code.launchpad.net/cloud-init
[12:51] <smoser>  lp:cloud-init (aka ~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init) git repo is at https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init
[12:51] <smoser> a list of all cloud-init-dev's cloud-init branches can be seen here
[12:51] <smoser>  https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/
[12:51] <smoser> the 'master' branch https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/master
[12:51] <smoser> and that has 'Branch merges' "7 branches proposed for merging into this one"
[12:52] <smoser> which points https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/master/+activereviews
[12:52] <smoser> all of that is navigatable but sometimes non-obvious
[12:52] <smoser> s/sometimes/
[13:59] <smoser> larsks, around ?
[13:59] <larsks> Sort of :) Phone meeting. I saw your changes; hope to look at that this afternoon.
[14:01] <smoser> larsks, alternatively if you can tell me how to test that i did not break your work with bdrpm i'd just merge
[16:23] <smoser> larsks, ok. so i think i'm going to just pull my changes.
[16:23] <smoser> brpm works for me as via:
[16:23] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/21909186/
[16:23] <larsks> smoser: okay.  totally going to look at things this afternoon; yesterday was just busy :)
[16:23] <smoser> larsks, i understand not geting aroudn to things.
[16:23] <larsks> But if it works for you that is probably the best test.
[16:23] <smoser> you have been a big help. thank you.
[16:24] <smoser> see that paste there, i built successfully with rpmbuild
[16:24] <smoser> your repo needs to get tags ro 'git describe' doesnt work
[16:24] <smoser> and i thikn your repo needs new repo basically (since i re-imported)
[16:24] <smoser> end result though, trunk should bddeb and brpm shortly
[16:25] <larsks> I think the existing code is post-your-re-import.  But yeah, may be missing tags.
[16:27] <smoser> yeah, just missing tags then.
[16:27] <smoser> that makes more sense.
[16:29] <smoser> rharper, powersj harlowja ^ above paste points to building cloud-init in an centos7 lxc.
[16:30] <smoser> there are some less-than-ideals there (i had to copy the list of rpms to install rather than using something in trunk to generate it) and i the script assumes it has to branch a remote repo, but generally did work.
[17:22] <rharper> smoser: what's with the ssh stuff in the build env?
[17:24] <rharper> it's a builder script?
[17:24] <harlowja> whats up
[17:25] <harlowja> i like building things :-P
[17:25] <harlowja> now just need to see if lxc is on our build slaves, lol
[17:25] <harlowja> larsks is it prefered to use lxc, or use the mock thing i  was reading about
[17:25] <harlowja> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mock
[17:25] <larsks> mock is generally what people use for building packages in pristine environments.
[17:26] <harlowja> is that like glacial sprint pristine?
[17:26] <harlowja> *glacial spring
[17:26] <harlowja> or like my local pond pristine
[17:26] <harlowja> lol
[17:26] <larsks> Oh, maybe, you had me confused for a minute.
[17:26] <harlowja> the above is just messing around
[17:26] <harlowja> lol
[17:27] <harlowja> (well the mock question isn't)
[17:27] <harlowja> but the spring part is
[17:28] <larsks> I had figured that out, but thanks :)
[17:29]  * rharper enjoys the artic air during his sprints
[17:29] <harlowja> lol
[17:31] <larsks> harlowja: incidentally, you'll note that brpm now has a --srpm option which will *just* build a source rpm, which you can then hand off to mock.
[17:32] <harlowja> cool
[17:32] <harlowja> gotta get my jenkins build scripts up to date to try some of this
[17:32]  * harlowja has been recently messing with http://docs.openstack.org/infra/jenkins-job-builder/
[17:33] <harlowja> and getting the CI guy onboard with using that
[17:33] <rangerpb> smoser, hey around? i was talking with larsks about the problem with entry_points, bloating /usr/bin/, and fully qualified path names to executables .. he had a nice idea where instead of using entry_point, the scripts call python -m instead
[17:34] <rangerpb> it is a good compromise, the only  downside is the python version is not figured out like it is with entry_point
[17:35] <smoser> rangerpb, right. and that is fine.
[17:35] <smoser> except...
[17:35] <smoser> which python do you call ?
[17:36] <smoser> python2 or python3
[17:36] <rangerpb> well exactly .. thats the point I was bringing up
[17:36] <smoser> maybe its easier to come up with that.
[17:36] <rangerpb> i was thinking so ... but this is new territory for me as well
[17:37] <rangerpb> i did see python version is determined in the make file
[18:05] <rangerpb> hey harlowja are you aware of a way that setup.py could be used to replace a variable in a file prior to install ?
[18:05] <harlowja> nope :-/
[18:06] <rangerpb> how about running a command which in turn could do that?
[19:07] <rangerpb> larsks, smoser http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bbaude/cloud-init/azure_dhcp/revision/1253  <-- how much does that make you throwup in your mouth?
[19:09] <larsks> rangerpb: yuuuuuuck.  So, for the record: I think that templating the hook scripts seems unnecessary.  I think we should trust the Python installer to put scripts where they will be in $PATH, and then just call them with an unqualified name.  If someone *really* wants to override things by mucking about with $PATH, more power to them!
[19:09] <smoser> that dhclient hooks is *such* a crap interface
[19:09] <larsks> I mean, we trust it to put cloud-init in the right place...
[19:10] <rangerpb> smoser, i dont follow..
[19:10] <smoser> larsks, thats not it though..
[19:10] <smoser> the template is needed to get the right python binary
[19:10] <smoser> either python2 or python3
[19:10] <smoser> as it is now.
[19:10] <larsks> It's not, in fact; this was all rangerpb trying to work around a prior requirement :)
[19:11] <larsks> I think we should just replace the call to '$PYTHON ...' in the hook scripts with 'cloudinit-dhclient-hook', no full path, and it all becomes much easier.
[19:11] <smoser> so, yes. anoterh alternative is to put a easyinstall program into /usr/bin/
[19:11] <rangerpb> there we are couple of pieces to it. the right version, the right binary, the right install path
[19:11] <larsks> Which is exactly where console_scripts entrypoints get placed.
[19:11] <smoser> except then you have a crappy program that is not a user executable in /usr/bin/
[19:11] <smoser> thats what i didn't like.
[19:12] <larsks> I guess.  It seems like a lot of effort to work around it.
[19:12] <smoser> i'm polluting /usr/bin/ and destroying tab completion for cloud-init with some sillyness.
[19:12] <larsks> You have the cloudinit-dhclient-hook script bail out with an error message if called without the appropriate environment.
[19:12] <larsks> s/have/could have/
[19:13] <smoser> the right place for 'cloud-inti-dhclient-hooks' is /usr/lib/cloud-init/
[19:13] <smoser> which isn't going to be in a PATH (and for good reason)
[19:13] <larsks> The alternative -- which is my preference -- is to leave installation of the hook scripts up to the package.  I know we've talked about this before, but I don't generally expect my setup.py to be setting up init scripts etc. for me.
[19:13] <larsks> The right place for the hook helper is probably distribution dependent.
[19:13] <smoser> sure.
[19:13] <smoser> but not in $PATH
[19:13] <larsks> (which is why I think it's a packaging issue)
[19:14] <smoser> and that is reasonable.
[19:14] <smoser> but then later on i break you, because your dealing with that now has to deal with a change we made upstream.
[19:14] <smoser> we're trying to make setup.py do the right thing.
[19:15] <smoser> i think the link there is pretty good.
[19:15] <larsks> I understand your goal, but I think that trying to turn setup.py into a multi-distribution system configuration tool is the wrong place to put our effort.
[19:15] <rangerpb> wait ... smoser did you think what I did was somewhat ok ?
[19:15] <smoser> not really a system configuration tool. just an install tool.
[19:16] <smoser> i know its a pain.
[19:16] <larsks> Well, setting up init/systemd/etc...I think of that more as system config.
[19:16] <smoser> i dont know what other things do here.
[19:17] <smoser> i generally agree, but cloud-init kind of has more involved init/systemd than other things.
[19:17] <larsks> A lot of things just install the executables via setup.py, and leave service configuration up to the packager (e.g., I think all the openstack services do that, for example).
[19:17] <smoser> its trying to be part of the os
[19:17] <smoser> i'm willing to accept that maybe this is over-doing things.
[19:18] <larsks> Eh, ultimately you're the driver :)
[19:18] <smoser> i think the link there is actually pretty good though
[19:18] <rangerpb> i think it is the closest to accomplishing what you wanting without total insanity
[19:18] <rangerpb> just like ... partial insanity
[19:19] <smoser> some nit picks i have , but largely good.
[19:19] <rangerpb> comment away
[19:19] <smoser> that dhclient hooks interface is complete crap
[19:19] <larsks> So, what if we unlitaterally install the script into /usr/lib/..., and just call that explicitly from the hook scripts, which then don't require templating...
[19:19] <larsks> ...and packagers can patch setup.py if they want the script in a different place?
[19:19] <smoser> you could actually unintentionally and unknowingly break some other program's hook because you are setting PYTHON_BINARY
[19:19] <smoser> what crap that is.
[19:20] <larsks> Hence this ^^^ proposal :)
[19:20] <rangerpb> larsks, but installing into a static location doesnt fix which python version should be used
[19:20] <smoser> but you just added a level of indirction
[19:21] <larsks> Argh, right, I keep forgetting that silly detail.
[19:21] <smoser> you have to template the /usr/lib/ thing
[19:21] <smoser> yeah.
[19:21] <larsks> How about:
[19:21] <larsks> setup.py installs it in /usr/bin, and the package moves it? :)
[19:21] <larsks> Nah.
[19:21] <smoser> this is also sovled by piggy-backing on the cloud-init in /usr/bin/
[19:21] <larsks> Never mind.
[19:21] <larsks> Oh, that's an even better idea.
[19:21] <larsks> Just making it a subcommand, you mean?
[19:21] <rangerpb> i dont follow that
[19:21] <larsks> Like 'cloud-init dhclient-hook'?
[19:21] <smoser> yeah.
[19:21] <rangerpb> wait !!!!!!!!!1 i suggested that before
[19:22] <larsks> Well hell, that fixes everything.
[19:22] <larsks> rangerpb: pics or it didn't happen :)
[19:22] <smoser> the only thing i didnt' lke there is that the main has a bunch of imports and stuff that the dhclient doesnt
[19:22] <smoser> making it much slower.
[19:22] <rangerpb> oh it happened :)
[19:22] <smoser> larsks, rangerpb i really appreciate boht of your inputs
[19:23] <rangerpb> smoser, so are you saying youll take the perf hit to make it a subcommand ?
[19:23] <larsks> I think that seems cleanest, honestly.
[19:23] <rangerpb> yeah but I gotta hear the man say it
[19:23] <smoser> :)
[19:23] <larsks> Oh sure, I'm just opining.
[19:23] <smoser> well, it would be slower
[19:23] <larsks> Opinionating.
[19:23] <smoser> thats what i'm saying.
[19:23] <rangerpb> so i can take ap icure ...
[19:23] <smoser> and slowness is a pita.
[19:24] <larsks> I guess.  We'll already have run cloud-init once at that point, so hopefully most of the disk accesses are already cached.
[19:24] <rangerpb> cloud-init runs *after* dhclient does it not?
[19:24] <larsks> Well, point being, we run it twice in either case.
[19:24] <larsks> You could run some short tests to quantify the performance difference.
[19:25] <rangerpb> smoser, we could conditionally import stuff based on what cloud-init is doing
[19:28] <larsks> AHHHH  STOP ADDING LOGIC! :)
[19:29] <larsks> Seriously, that would be premature optimization unless you first demonstrate the magnitude of the performance hit.
[19:31] <rangerpb> im a people pleaser
[19:32] <smoser> actually, yeah.
[19:32] <smoser> the crap that i have for the stages and paths makes it bad.
[20:03] <smoser> larsks, here is time info
[20:03] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21937409/
[20:04] <rangerpb> and your conclusion is ?
[20:05] <smoser> rangerpb, ok. i'm fine with a sub-command of cloud-init
[20:05] <larsks> \o/
[20:05] <rangerpb> and a subcommand would be something like 'init' already is right>
[20:05] <rangerpb> ?
[20:05] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21937756/
[20:05] <smoser> right.
[20:06] <rangerpb> ok, ill get cracking on that ... any advise on how you would see that being done?
[20:06] <smoser> it is very real.
[20:06] <rangerpb> would you detect if the subcommand was given and jump from there asap ?
[20:07] <smoser> yeah, just register the subcommand with the args as the other ones are.
[20:07] <larsks> rangerpb: see the 'main' method in cloudinit/cmd/main.py
[20:07] <smoser> the performance difference is ~ .03 seconds between the 2
[20:07] <rangerpb> larsks, yeah i was poking around in there to see as well
[21:14] <harlowja> so when can we merge https://code.launchpad.net/~larsks/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/301310 :-P
[21:14] <harlowja> larsks is that ready?
[21:33] <harlowja> killing my package building CI job without that ;)
[23:13] <larsks> harlowja: *I* think it's ready, if you and smoser are happy with it...
[23:24] <mgagne> so I tested latest cloud-init 0.7.7~bzr1256-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 and it fails with a known bug we identified a couple of weeks ago where the bond link name attribute is expected by cloud-init but configdrive in OpenStack doesn't provide it since it's not part of the spec.
[23:28] <mgagne> this fix didn't make it afaik: http://paste.ubuntu.com/20492837/
[23:32] <mgagne> in fact, I think this bug hasn't been fixed yet: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1605749
[23:53] <harlowja> mgagne cool, something to wrok on
[23:53] <harlowja> once i get this git crap building, ha
[23:53] <mgagne> :P
[23:53] <harlowja> or others can, now that we have git!
[23:53] <harlowja> ha
[23:53] <mgagne> (wink wink)
[23:53]  * harlowja winks back at u
[23:53] <harlowja> lol
[23:53] <harlowja> ha
[23:54] <harlowja> did u say u wanted to do that if we moved to git?
[23:54] <harlowja> or was that someone else, ha
[23:54] <mgagne> well, would make it less painful
[23:54] <mgagne> I know smoser worked on fixing those issues AFAIK
[23:55] <mgagne> in fact, this paste fixes the bond link name issue but also reproduces the issue where bond_links aren't physical nic but reference to link ids
[23:55] <mgagne> anyway
[23:55] <mgagne> will schedule some time to work on it tomorrow


[23:42] <McJuicy> does anyone else have any issues where the focused app will change to an unfocused app sometimes? I'm using gnome3
[23:42] <McJuicy> becomes annoying because it will switch mid typing and I'll end up adding characters to some code


[00:12] <joshjtl> this is sooo bizzare there are no sound recorders for kde available in any repo anymore
[01:26] <jjesse> evening
[01:27] <dtchen> jjesse: hi. what's the issue with your inaudible sound?
[01:45] <jjesse> dtchen: no clue what's the issue with my sound
[01:45] <jjesse> dtchen: sorry irc is lagging real bad for me right now
[01:46] <jjesse> dtchen: i'm too lagged to troubleshoot right now, sorry that i am not available
[02:45] <dtchen> jjesse-dell9: ok, let me know if you'd like to troubleshoot further
[02:45] <dtchen> jjesse: ^^
[02:55] <jjesse-dell9> dtchen: thanks will do i moved on to working with my dell mini 9 as it is respondiing btter
[02:55] <dtchen> jjesse-dell9: ok
[02:55] <dtchen> jjesse-dell9: can you be more specific than "no sound"?
[02:56] <jjesse-dell9> dtchen: thanks for your offer of help
[02:56] <jjesse-dell9> dtchen: i have the volume turned up all the way and get no sound playing music/videos/start up sounds etc
[02:57] <dtchen> jjesse-dell9: please download http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh , save it to your Desktop, and run the following command in a Konsole: bash ~/Desktop/alsa-info.sh
[02:59] <jjesse-dell9> dtchen: will do when i get a chance
[04:41] <freeflying> Riddell: http://imagebin.ca/view/xtDtynzR.html kimpanel with scim as backend
[09:39] <larsivi_> hola - tried to upgrade to jaunty from intrepid, but the upgrade-notifier-kde -d thingy told me there was none
[09:39] <larsivi_> so I did it the old way using apt-get dist-upgrade
[11:00] <Quintasan> There is a conflict between kde-l10n-pl and gwenview-l18n, kde-l10n-pl tries to overwrite  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/pl/gwenview/index.cache.bz2
[11:32] <larsivi> first impressions of jaunty : Quassel isn't of much use; it does not adapt to the KDE colour scheme automatically, and it is impossible (or at least very difficult, I can't find it) to set up default channels for a network
[11:36] <Mamarok> Sput: ^^
[11:36] <larsivi> the colour scheme issue means that most of the text isn't readable with a dark kde scheme
[12:09] <Mamarok> brilliant, I have a user in #kubuntu-de who has the same problem than I have, Pulseaudio showing up in Phonon but is not installed, he uses Intepid with 4.1.4...
[12:19] <jussi01> larsivi: first bit is a bug, sput is currently working on it afaik. second, default channels are channels you have joined. if you are in them when you quit, it will rejoin them on start.
[12:19] <jussi01> larsivi: I have a dark colour schem, so Imfamiliar with that ;)
[12:36] <larsivi> can kde system settings somehow be used to control touchpad scrolling settings? since upgrading changed them, I mean ...
[12:43] <larsivi> meh, it is only a konqueror issue
[12:48] <Lure> Riddell: any reason we still have koffice 1.6 in repo?
[12:48]  * Lure would though that it would be better to just switch to 2.0 rc
[14:32] <Quintasan> Mamarok: PA shows here too. Along with mine sound card
[15:09] <ScottK> Dcop no longer works, right?
[15:09] <ScottK> e.g. I think we should just drop python-dcop from kde3bindings.
[15:13] <larsivi> did anyone else see fairly heavy graphical glitches in jaunty?
[15:15] <larsivi> the toolbar in konqueror is mostly unviewable, and there is also issues in kmail/kontact
[15:16] <ScottK> larsivi: Intel video?
[15:16] <larsivi> ok, I see I get some graphical packages in updates
[15:16] <larsivi> ScottK: yes
[15:17] <ScottK> Intel is known problematic.
[15:17] <ScottK> larsivi: You can also try their uxa driver.  I find it works much better but falls over once or twice a day.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/UxaTesting
[15:18] <larsivi> heh, not sure that is better ;)
[15:18] <larsivi> seems that kde4 apps are affected much more than kde3 (konversation) apps
[15:19] <ScottK> I'm not sure yet either.
[15:19] <ScottK> People's experience with it varies widely depending on their exact hardware, so it's worth a try.
[15:31] <larsivi> ScottK: ok, trying
[15:39] <larsivi> ScottK: first impressions of UXA, much better :)
[15:40] <ScottK> It's stunningly better except the crashing here.
[15:41] <larsivi> no glitches so far, and very usable desktop effects
[15:43] <jefferai> Riddell: Nightrose suggested my audio problem may be PulseAudio related
[15:43] <jefferai> do you know how to get rid of it without removing half of KDE?
[15:45] <dtchen> huh, why is pulseaudio installed on kubuntu?
[15:45] <smarter> it isn't.
[15:46] <larsivi> I think it was in intrepid
[15:47] <smarter> the pulseaudio lib(libpulse0) is installed, so that phonon supports pulseaudio if it's installed, but that's all
[15:48] <larsivi> Is quassel not adapting itself to dark kde themes a reportable bug? that together with difficulties setting up the channels per network makes quassel a major regression compared to konversation IMO
[15:49] <Riddell> jefferai: sudo apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio
[15:49] <Riddell> larsivi: yes that would be a bug
[15:50] <jefferai> hmm
[15:50] <jefferai> pulseaudio not installed
[15:50] <jefferai> although phonon shows a backend for it
[15:50] <jefferai> ah, I do have libpulse0 though
[15:50] <dtchen> ah. pulseaudio is on the DVD and alternate but not on daily-live
[15:50] <smarter> just don't use it
[15:50]  * jefferai didn't use either of those
[15:51] <jefferai> it's not like I wanted to!
[15:51] <jefferai> heh
[15:51] <dtchen> smarter: it's a little more complicated than that
[15:51] <dtchen> we autospawn in per-user sessions
[15:51] <jefferai> removing libpulse0 wants to remove a *ton* of stuff
[15:52] <dtchen> the proper way to disable pulseaudio is to edit /etc/pulse/client.conf and change "autospawn = yes" to "autospawn = no"
[15:52] <dtchen> or you can comment out (use leading semicolon) "autospawn = yes"
[15:52] <dtchen> then, killall pulseaudio
[15:52] <jefferai> ah
[15:52] <Riddell> kdebase links to libpulse
[15:52] <jefferai> yeah, boo
[15:52] <jefferai> Riddell: my problem is that phonon works totally fine
[15:53] <Riddell> that doesn't seem like a problem :)
[15:53] <dtchen> at that point, you should be able to run `sudo fuser -v /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*' and not see pulseaudio
[15:53] <jefferai> but anything not Phonon is now making ugly zap/static noises out of my PC speaker (not the good kind of speaker)
[15:53] <jefferai> this includes both gnome programs, and things like going to VTY1 and my system beep
[15:54] <jefferai> *going to VTY1 and triggering my system beep
[15:54] <Lure> can anybody with packagekit knowledge comment on bug 354140
[15:54] <dtchen> jefferai: this seems more aligned with general audio issues. have you run http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh and dumped the output somewhere? beware, it's a bash script.
[15:54] <jefferai> dtchen: no, but it worked fine in intrepid
[15:54] <jefferai> only stopped working after upgrade to jaunty
[15:54] <dtchen> jefferai: i realise that; you've already stated it :-)
[15:55] <dtchen> jefferai: i'm concerned with the *current* state, since i care for general audio stuff
[15:55] <jefferai> erm...no I didn't
[15:55] <jefferai> but I'll run the alsa-info script
[15:56] <ScottK> Lure: I think Tonio_ is who you want.
[15:56] <Lure> ScottK: thanks, will ping him when around
[15:58] <jefferai> dtchen: http://rafb.net/p/0fMpgF20.html
[15:58] <Riddell> Lure: we keep koffice 1.6 because upstream still recommends it over koffice 2.0.  2.0 is more of a platform release than something most users will want
[15:58] <Lure> Riddell: ok
[15:59]  * Lure thought that 2.0 would need some testers, as it improved in rc
[15:59] <dtchen> jefferai: yeah, just as i thought
[15:59] <dtchen> jefferai: you need to mute 'PC Beep'
[15:59] <jefferai> ah
[16:00] <jefferai> when did that get turned on  :-P
[16:00] <dtchen> jefferai: it didn't
[16:00] <jefferai> OK, when did it's behavior change?
[16:00] <jefferai> *its
[16:00] <dtchen> most bioses tell HDA codecs to initialise it to unmuted state
[16:00] <jefferai> ah
[16:00] <dtchen> this is bug 331589
[16:00] <jefferai> hah
[16:00] <jefferai> I totally agree with it
[16:01] <dtchen> yeah, well, there's no good way to fix it for upgrades
[16:01] <dtchen> new installs are easy- we clobber the element and unmute it forcefully
[16:01] <dtchen> mute*
[16:01] <jefferai> ah, ok, so it's added in newer alsa
[16:02] <dtchen> no, it's hardware-based
[16:02] <jefferai> ok, access to it is added in newer alsa
[16:02] <jefferai> which also happens to unmute it when installed
[16:02] <dtchen> no, alsa doesn't do anything with it
[16:02] <jefferai> I didn't update my bios
[16:02] <jefferai> or change any settings in it
[16:02] <dtchen> alsa accepts what the bios programs the HDA codec to have
[16:02] <jefferai> and the change happened when upgrading to jaunty
[16:03] <jefferai> ok, so now alsa accepts something it didn't before?
[16:03] <dtchen> alsa has always accepted what the bios tells it
[16:03] <dtchen> there are ways to fudge around broken bioses- that's known as the quirk mechanism
[16:03] <jefferai> yes, I know about quirks
[16:03] <dtchen> however, we haven't seen a proliferation of HDA codecs exposing 'PC Beep' until recently
[16:04] <jefferai> so this could be due to the new version of the kernel module, perhaps?
[16:04] <dtchen> in a way, you're correct that -kernel now exposes it
[16:04] <jefferai> OK
[16:04] <dtchen> however, the kernel has always exposed that same register- it's just now visible to userspace tools instead of having to use hwdep foolery
[16:05] <dtchen> the sanest option would be to forcibly mute it for everyone regardless of setting
[16:06] <dtchen> barring that, we could simply unbind the element in the codec drivers
[16:06] <jefferai> Ah
[16:06] <dtchen> each has unintended consquences
[16:07] <dtchen> anyhow, not really Kubuntu-related, so i'll stop spewing :-)
[16:07] <dtchen> (and you have the resolution of your issue already described, which is to mute that element)
[16:20]  * Lure is surprised how good HD video editing with kdenlive is
[16:31] <seele> Sput: ping
[16:31] <Sput> seele: pong
[16:31] <seele> Sput: yo
[16:32] <seele> Sput: so i've been thinking about the message indicator for quassel
[16:32] <seele> i'm not sure the pulsing effect is working
[16:32] <Sput> seele: it's not, but that's pinheiro's call
[16:33] <Sput> we need to persuade him to create a more visible alert :)
[16:33] <seele> hmm.. ok. i will talk to him about it
[16:33] <seele> yes.. it takes too much work to figure out if you have a ping or not
[16:33] <Sput> yeah, it is a quite shiny effect, but doesn't spring into the eye
[16:34] <Sput> replacing the animation is no big deal once pinheiro gives me one :)
[16:45] <Riddell> dtchen: has Mamarok complained to you about her audio problems?
[16:45] <Riddell> she was having problems but I don't really know where to start debugging
[16:47] <ryanakca> nixternal: I mixed up this week and next, it's next week that I'll be away, not this one, so I should be free pretty much all of this week to work on h.k.o
[16:49] <dtchen> Riddell: Mamarok? no
[16:50] <ScottK> Riddell: dcop is non-functional in Jaunty, so we should drop python-dcop, right?
[16:50] <Mamarok> dtchen: I commented on a few bugs in launchpad about that
[16:50] <dtchen> Mamarok: specific references? my bug flow is upwards of several thousand daily.
[16:51] <Mamarok> dtchen: wiat, will get it for you
[16:51] <Mamarok> wait even...
[16:52] <ryanakca> If a package has kdebase-dev and kdelibs5-dev as Build-Depends, does it need necessarily need kdebase and kdelibs5 as Depends?
[16:53] <Mamarok> dtchen: 354896
[16:54] <Gon> mmmm, trying to share a folder with samba in dolphin, the wizard doesn't appear on click "Configure Shared..." button
[16:54] <Gon> D:
[16:54] <Mamarok> dtchen: bug 354896
[16:54] <ScottK> ryanakca: No.  Usually some binary provided by those though.
[16:54] <Mamarok> bug bug 330797
[16:56] <ryanakca> ScottK: great, thanks
[16:57] <Mamarok> etc, and bug 352577
[16:57] <Mamarok> funny is, those all seem to be pulseaudio related, although I have no pulseaudio installed (purged the package, removed phonondevicesrc)
[16:58] <dtchen> Mamarok: 354896 lacks sufficient info. the DebuggingSoundProblems page has a reference to the http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh script that *must* be run.
[16:58] <Mamarok> and pulseaudio shows up in the card list in Phonon
[16:58] <dtchen> Mamarok: so, for 354896, i would ask for output from that *bash* script
[16:59] <Mamarok> dtchen: that was a bad examle, sry, as this is Amarok related and doesn't happen with SVN, so likely to be fixed upstream anyway
[16:59] <dtchen> Mamarok: i've asked for additional info in 330797. i'll clarify that this evening after i can get a kubuntu vm running, since i don't have the dialogs memorised.
[17:00] <dtchen> Mamarok: same as 354896 for 352577
[17:00] <Mamarok> ok, will run the script now
[17:01] <Lure> ScottK, Riddell: do I need to ask for FFe for minor bug-fix release that I would like to get synced into Jaunty/universe?
[17:01] <dtchen> i could revert the autospawn, but it will break a number of other things
[17:01] <ScottK> Lure: Bug fix only, no FFe needed.
[17:02] <Lure> ScottK: thanks, will verify a bit more about changes, so that I feel safe with it
[17:04] <ryanakca> ScottK: Also, if its a PyKDE4 app that depends on kdelibs5-dev and kdebase-dev, would it still have an Architecture: all ?
[17:04] <ScottK> Probably not.
[17:26] <Riddell> Lure: you could just run it by me
[17:27] <Lure> Riddell: will do, but I need to clarify if I can drop armel patches
[17:33] <Riddell> kubuntu forums down?
[17:34] <Riddell> ScottK: yes I think drop python-dcop
[17:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[17:36] <claydoh> Riddell: kfn is down, can't get hold of the owner :(
[17:36] <claydoh> Riddell: thats what you get for running it on microsoft servers :/
[17:36] <Riddell> he was?
[17:37] <claydoh> afaik
[17:38] <claydoh> he did plan to move it, don't believe he ever did
[17:38] <ScottK> Riddell: Drop all the dcop bindings while I'm at it?
[17:42]  * ScottK goes ahead.
[18:05] <ryanakca> ScottK: thanks
[18:35] <claydoh> is it a policykit, er packagekit new feature where we can install debs without authorization?
[18:36] <ScottK> No.
[18:36] <Riddell> you've probably ticked "remember authorisation" at some point
[18:37] <claydoh> ahh, don't remember doing that. Ny way to undo it? logout/
[18:54]  * ScottK attempts to update krusader ....
[20:09] <larsivi> ScottK: hmm, is high cpu usage in xorg one of the uxa symptoms?
[20:09] <ScottK> larsivi: I'd look through the wiki page I pointed to and see what people have reported.
[20:09] <ScottK> I haven't had it.
[21:50] <jjesse-mini9>  hrmm this is intersting, my dell mini 9 is now running jaunty on a fresh install and no sound, had sound in intrepid on it
[21:51] <jjesse-mini9> from the ubuntumini.com blog it seems that sound works out of the box for jaunty for him, wonder if there is something different between ubuntu and kubuntu that is messing it up?
[21:53] <Quintasan> jjesse-mini9: It
[21:54] <jjesse-mini9> hrmm ok i think i figured it out, in kmix there is another channel called speaker that was turned down all the wya
[21:55] <Quintasan> :D
[21:55] <jjesse-mini9> which didnt show default
[21:55] <jjesse-mini9> so now in kmix i have master, pcm, headphones, and speaker
[21:57] <jjesse-mini9> i bet thats the same problem with my other dell
[21:57] <jjesse-mini9> bummer that it isnt selected by default
[22:02]  * Quintasan thinks it's time to translate something
[22:17] <ryanakca> Who runs the Kubuntu Forums? I'm guessing they're aware that their forums are down?
[22:21] <ScottK> ryanakca: claydoh was mentioning it earlier.  He was having trouble getting a hold of them.
[22:21] <claydoh> ryanakca: a dude named Open Source (Zack)
[22:22] <claydoh> haven't gotten hold of him, and I don't have any comntact info on the other guy with access to the server
[22:22] <claydoh> he may be on national guard duty, doing his one weekend thing
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> Oh snap, 4.3 rules: http://imagebin.ca/view/Kadc-TO.html
[22:24] <kurrele> hola
[22:24] <ryanakca> claydoh: *nod*, thanks
[22:25] <claydoh> ryanakca: prob the dang ms server its running on....
[22:39] <ryanakca> claydoh: Would it be worth giving him a call?
[22:39] <claydoh> you have his number?
[22:40] <ryanakca> claydoh: *nod*
[22:40] <claydoh> might be
[22:41] <ryanakca> claydoh: You can get it by whois'ing the domain, or you can just look here, http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/kubuntuforums.net-whois ... At least, I'm guessing that's his phone number...
[22:44] <Riddell> woo, inbox at ten!
[22:46]  * ryanakca scratches his head
[22:46]  * claydoh scratches his......
[22:46] <claydoh> ryanakca: that is a business number, probably his workplace
[22:47] <claydoh> no one is home, and the comapny site is um, down too
[22:49]  * ryanakca sighs
[22:50] <jjesse-mini9> Riddell: i figured out my sound problem, in kmix there is another channel called speaker that was turned all the way down
[22:50] <Riddell> jjesse-mini9: ah hah
[22:57] <dtchen> jjesse-mini9: is that just for the speaker, or is that also applicable to headphones?
[23:00] <jjesse-mini9> dtchen: never checked the headphones
[23:00] <jjesse-mini9> silly me
[23:02] <dtchen> jjesse-mini9: interesting. On a fresh install? We definitely unmute 'Speaker'.
[23:02] <dtchen> jjesse-mini9: can you run http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh ?
[23:02] <jjesse-mini9> dtchen: yes on a fresh install of jaunty, both on my dell mini 9 and my dell e series
[23:02] <dtchen>         switch_control "Speaker" on
[23:02] <dtchen> ^^^
[23:03] <jjesse-mini9> dtchen: speaker was not even listed in kmix, i had to add another channel to be able to control it
[23:03] <dtchen> the only thing i can think of is that there's an amp associated with it
[23:03] <dtchen> if so, simply unmuting it won't suffice; we'll need to set it to 80% or so, too
[23:04] <jjesse-mini9>  http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=f3696c72ef18105d61470524edfe14d4eb9ff151
[23:04] <jjesse-mini9> dtchen: i thinki i mispoke, it wasnt muted it was turned down all the way
[23:04] <dtchen> aha
[23:04] <dtchen> thought so
[23:05] <dtchen> yeah, confirmed in your output
[23:05] <dtchen>   Front Left: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
[23:05] <dtchen>   Front Right: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
[23:05] <jjesse-mini9> i turned it up all the way to 100% after i added the channel in kmix
[23:11] <dtchen> jjesse-mini9: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~crimsun/alsa-utils/ubuntu.new/revision/19
[23:11] <jjesse-mini9> what do i do w/ that?
[23:12] <dtchen> jjesse-mini9: it's a commit log. thanks for helping fix the bug!
[23:12] <jjesse-mini9> oh cool, you are welcome
[23:12] <jjesse-mini9> time to head afk to give son bath, then eat dinner
[23:12] <dtchen> it's precisely as i mentioned nine minutes ago ;)
[23:12] <dtchen> simply unmuting is insufficient- also needed to set the level
[23:13] <jjesse-mini9> well glad i could help, be back later


[00:00] <cjwatson> so that would be next meeting but one, by bryce's count
[00:00] <cjwatson> james_w: go
[00:02] <james_w> I did the mono-tools merge after we handed out the left over ones as we were approaching DIF. It's still awaiting sponsorship, and in the meantime Debian have switched to webkit for this package.
[00:02] <james_w> our only diff was for mozilla stuff (that debian should have taken eventually), and so this should be a sync
[00:02] <james_w> however, that would need a promotion for webkit-sharp.
[00:02] <cjwatson> james_w: you not being core-dev is confusing me; I'm sure I looked at that and thought "oh, he's core-dev now, he can do it himself)
[00:02] <cjwatson> "
[00:02] <james_w> not even close :-)
[00:03] <james_w> is there a policy on MIRs for language bindings that anyone knows about?
[00:04] <james_w> with both of the responsible people away I want to ask for any help first, as this should really be pre-FF
[00:04] <cjwatson> I don't think there's a strict policy, though I would regard bindings for something that's already in main as fairly uncontroversial
[00:04] <cjwatson> I might want to review it to check that it was just a thin wrapper, but might regard it as trivial
[00:05] <asac> james_w: is mono-tools in main?
[00:05] <james_w> I assumed so, as it was on the list that was divided up
[00:05] <james_w> yeah, it is
[00:05] <asac> monodoc-browser is
[00:06] <cjwatson> mono-tools | 1.2.6-4ubuntu5 |      intrepid | source
[00:06] <james_w> I'd rather not be dealing with it, but it looked like an easy merge at the time.
[00:06] <james_w> directhex, who alerted me to this, said that the current merge would be better than nothing, but obviously syncing would be better
[00:06] <asac> james_w: have you tested for regressions with webkit? liferea had regressions, so i wonder.
[00:07] <james_w> asac: I have no idea how webkit is even used in the package
[00:07] <james_w> This is all just based on comments by directhex in the bug
[00:08] <james_w> (bug 243093)
[00:08] <asac> james_w: well. monodoc-browser used gecko in the past to render the documentation pages
[00:08] <asac> which probably would be replaced with webkit
[00:08] <james_w> anyway, I'll either hang on for doko or pitti, or write the MIR
[00:08] <kees> eww webkit...  only 22 CVEs in the last few years.  http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=webkit
[00:09] <cjwatson> webkit's already in main
[00:09] <cjwatson> webkit-sharp is the matter under discussion
[00:09] <asac> anyone knows why we need monodoc in main? (which appears to pull in monodoc-browser)
[00:10]  * cjwatson looks up the germinate-output bible
[00:10] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/rdepends/ALL/monodoc
[00:10] <cjwatson> so seeded and no other rdepends
[00:10] <asac> yeah. if possible i'd like to demote that.
[00:11] <slangasek> hrm, seeded? I thought it was a build-dep of something
[00:11] <cjwatson> we included it as part of a general policy that all software in main should also have documentation (or relevant documentation tools) in main
[00:11] <cjwatson> is there a particular reason why this shouldn't apply to mono?
[00:11] <cjwatson> I mean documentation if any, of course
[00:12] <asac> ok. and we need the default browser for that documentation?
[00:12] <cjwatson> not necessarily, if there's another usable one then that would be fine
[00:12] <cjwatson> I don't know mono well enough to speak to that
[00:14] <calc> webkit is going to be used by gnome for the next release anyway (iirc?)
[00:14] <slangasek> webkit is already in main and is not a point of contention
[00:14] <cjwatson> if there's something else that works, feel free to unseed it with a suitable comment - I guess just making sure that monodoc-manual is still seeded would be a good idea
[00:15] <cjwatson> ok, we're over time; anything else urgent?
[00:15] <calc> oh ok
[00:19] <cjwatson> I guess that's it, then; good luck for feature freeze and I hope to be more around next week once I'm back home!
[00:19] <liw> thanks
[00:19] <TheMuso> Thanks all.
[00:19] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[00:19] <james_w> thanks all
[00:19] <slangasek> thanks :)
[00:20] <evand> thanks
[00:21] <asac> thx
[13:00] <lool> So hmm "Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team"
[13:00] <lool> #startmeeting
[13:00]  * ogra looks around
[13:00]  * persia sites quietly at the front, with notes in disarray
[13:01] <lool> Looks like there's something broken with the meeting bot
[13:01]  * ogra pokes MootBot
[13:01] <persia> Yep.  MootBot has been taking a long weekend the past several days.
[13:01] <lool> Let's do without then
[13:02] <ogra> is StevenK here ?
[13:02] <lool> First, action items from last week; uhoh my name is repeated all over the place
[13:02] <ogra> ... doesnt look like
[13:02] <persia> We can still use MootBot commands to structure the meeting, which might make writing minutes easier later.
[13:02] <lool> [topic] Action Items from August 14th, 2008
[13:02] <lool> * lool the investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [carry forward]
[13:02] <persia> What's the URL to the agenda again?
[13:02] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
[13:02] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
[13:02] <ogra> bah ... i'm beaten
[13:02] <lool> So I started poking xulrunner for a couple of hours, but that's all
[13:03] <lool> Concerning langpacks, I dropped a mail to Jeroen; I expect updates will happen before Alpha 5
[13:03] <lool> linux-lpia: I still have no idea what I supposed to check, but it's in intrepid  :)
[13:03] <lool> # lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status
[13:04] <lool> I reviewed the packaging of libwpeditor-plus and modest in depth in Debian; these look ready to be uploaded except for modest requiring hildon-fm
[13:04] <lool> hildon-fm is still broken in intrepid, so I need to look into the gtk+2.0 filechooser patch
[13:04] <emgent> hello
[13:05] <lool> So this is still on my TODO list; I made good progress on the direct packages themselves; I only need to review copyright on them
[13:05] <lool> # lool to purchase USB web camera
[13:05] <lool> didn
[13:05] <lool> I didn't
[13:05]  * ogra has several
[13:05] <StevenK> Oops
[13:05] <lool> # lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
[13:05] <lool> we didn't
[13:06] <lool> so I'll carry forward the last two actions; but please allow me to move modest/libwpeditor-plus and xulrunner/langpacks to my status report
[13:06] <lool> [action] lool to purchase USB web camera (carried over)
[13:06] <lool> [action] lool+davidm test Ekiga 2.9
[13:07] <lool> We might test Ekiga this WE with davidm as we will meet face to face  :-P
[13:07] <lool> Moving to current items
[13:07] <lool> [topic] Current items
[13:07] <lool> Not sure who proposed the sponsoring queue: please add your name to the items you propose
[13:07] <lool> [topic] # Status of sponsoring queue? (3 hours accomplished)
[13:08] <lool> davidm did
[13:08] <lool> Not sure what he meant; I personally am fine with my main sponsoring queue assigned items
[13:09] <lool> ogra: you have a bunch of items to sponsor
[13:09] <lool> or you had :)
[13:09] <ogra> i do ?
[13:09] <lool> persia: you only have one
[13:09] <lool> ogra: says daniel's last sponsoring overview
[13:09] <ogra> thats general ubuntu stuff though
[13:09] <persia> lool: No, I have lots and lots, but I very much doubt I'm capable of sponsoring the thing you imagine I'm supposed to sponsor.
[13:09] <ogra> not really mobile ... but right
[13:09] <lool> ogra: Not sure what the topic is there for though  :-/
[13:10] <persia> Really doesn't belong in this meeting.
[13:10] <lool> persia: Assigned to you?
[13:10] <ogra> well, my sponsoring usually falls under edubuntu
[13:10] <lool> Ok; I'm happy to move to next topic -- I have no idea what we have to discuss here anyway
[13:10] <persia> lool: I'm not core-dev.  Nothing is assigned to me.  I am a UUS admin, so I've quite a few I need to get done.
[13:10] <ogra> or powermanager/screensaver until tedg makes his MOTU
[13:10] <lool> I agree it's not mobile specicif
[13:11] <lool> persia: Hmm for some reason I thought you were core dev
[13:11] <ogra> we should ask david about it
[13:11] <lool> persia: The sponsoring overview shows http://launchpad.net/bugs/243948 FYI
[13:11] <persia> lool: It's a common misconception :)
[13:11] <persia> Right, I can't upload apt :)
[13:11] <lool> persia: You should sort that with dholbach IMO :)
[13:11] <ogra> persia, about time for core-dev then
[13:12] <ogra> i mean you should be ready for that ;)
[13:12] <lool> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm)
[13:12] <persia> ogra: I've done a couple patches for main this cycle, but none that were accepted.  I need a track record before I can pass the MC requirements for core-dev.
[13:12] <lool> [topic] StevenK status: livecd-rootfs, merges?
[13:12] <lool> StevenK: How is it going?  Got help from cjwatson on integrating your stuff?  pushed your livecd-rootfs patches?
[13:13] <lool> StevenK: With us?
[13:14] <StevenK> lool: Yes
[13:14] <StevenK> lool: Not yet
[13:14] <lool> StevenK: What's your status for other intrepid tasks in your pipe otherwise?
[13:15] <StevenK> lool: Hmmm.
[13:15] <StevenK> lool: Most of my merges are done/ignorable
[13:16] <lool> Ok
[13:16] <lool> Anything else you'd like to mention or I'm moving to persia?
[13:16] <StevenK> Just checking todo list
[13:17] <StevenK> Nope, basically trying to get images done
[13:17] <lool> [topic] persia status: installer, merges, ...?
[13:18] <lool> persia: So, how is it going there?
[13:18] <persia> So, I stopped trying to make the installer look good, and started looking at making it work.
[13:18] <persia> In the last d-i run I did, we had four issues that need to be sorted.
[13:19] <persia> 1) the partition types for lpia are unknown to d-i
[13:19] <persia> 2) We don't install a kernel
[13:19] <ogra> uh, 1-> why is that ? arent they standard ext3 ?
[13:19] <persia> 3) We have no useful tasks defined (currently choices are OpenSSH server and ubuntu-desktop)
[13:19] <persia> 4) tasksel crashes anyway because there is no aptitude
[13:20] <persia> 3 & 4 ought be fairly easy to fix.
[13:20] <ogra> how do we go about 3 ?
[13:20] <StevenK> The installer doesn't install a kernel?
[13:20] <lool> persia: 1) the partition types?!?
[13:20] <persia> 2 currently baffles me, but I haven't dug into it much.
[13:20]  * ogra proposed having ubuntu-mobile depend on -desktop and just apply ubuntu-mobile-settings for now
[13:20] <persia> For 1, we just need to patch d-i to know that lpia likes msdos partitions, which is trivial.
[13:20] <ogra> as additional pkg
[13:20] <persia> ogra: You don't want to drop any packages?
[13:21] <cgregan> bah...kernel...do we really need it?! :-)
[13:21] <ogra> we might, but tha should be possible through the seeds
[13:21] <lool> ogra: We're looking at ubuntu-mid ATM
[13:21] <lool> AIUI
[13:21] <ogra> (not sure anyone tested that, but i think cjwatson added such functionallity)
[13:22] <persia> lool: Why?  The installer is expected to be meta-agnostic, although I'm only planning a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid
[13:23] <lool> persia: Well it's nice if it is, but for feature parity I mostly care that we get a MID image
[13:23] <lool> not a subnotebook one
[13:23] <persia> lool: There are basically three steps involved.
[13:23] <persia> Step one is getting the installer to work on lpia (nearly done)
[13:23] <persia> Step two is making sure our metas appear as install options for the installer
[13:24] <persia> Step three is creating a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid.
[13:24] <persia> The flavour doesn't become important until step 3.
[13:25] <lool> persia: On which points of the above list do you need help?
[13:26] <persia> lool: Step 3 is the fussiest.  I'd really like to get the ubiquity interface to look nice with 480 vertical pixels (really 416), but had no success.  At this point, I no longer care about it looking nice, as long as it works.
[13:26] <lool> Sorry, I meant the list of 4 issues you mentionned earlier
[13:26] <persia> For steps 1 and 2 I likely need some help getting stuff integrated from the installer team, but that's not so bad.
[13:27] <ogra> why 416?
[13:27] <persia> Oh, for the broiken issues?  If someone else wants to look at why we don't get a kernel, that would be handy.  I at least understand what's happening in the other casesw.
[13:27] <ogra> you can just run it fullscreen :9
[13:27] <persia> ogra: 480 - 32 - 32
[13:27] <lool> ogra: panels
[13:27] <persia> That doesn't help, because it's about 520 pixels high.
[13:28] <ogra> lool, right thats what i meant
[13:28] <persia> Alternately, if nobody else looks at them, I expect I can sort the other three tomorrow, and look into the kernel.
[13:28] <ogra> put it above the panels in real fullscreen
[13:28] <ogra> users can click cancel
[13:28] <persia> I know that StevenK's image builder does handle the kernel issue, so it's just a d-i thing.
[13:29] <lool> persia: Is there a way to try this out?  even borken
[13:29] <persia> lool: Sure.  Download the daily lpia alternate CD and install in KVM.
[13:29] <persia> If my expectations for tomorrow are correct, Monday's image ought to install, although I'm not sure if we'll have a kernel or not.
[13:30] <lool> persia: When are you moving to live image / ubiquity testing of your bits?
[13:30] <ogra> persia, why do you run a desktop at all ? i would just use a .xsession that runs ubuquity standalone
[13:30] <ogra> *ubiquity
[13:30] <persia> ogra: Because it's a live session.
[13:30] <lool> ogra: Fortunately you didn't write ubugquity
[13:30] <ogra> heh
[13:31] <lool> ogra: Same reasons as Ubuntu live CD?
[13:31] <ogra> persia, whats the problem defining a different desktop session ? we have the ubiquitiy-only or only-ubiquity bootparam already
[13:31] <persia> lool: StevenK finished what look to be the last bits that I had issues with for livecd-rootfs today.  I'll probably be looking at a noninteractive tomorrow afternoon.
[13:31] <ogra> (not sure how its called atm)
[13:31] <lool> persia: Cool
[13:32] <ogra> lool, right but we had a session that adressed this
[13:32] <persia> ogra: It's different and requires more thought?  Anyway, I'd rather mirror the existing setup as much as possible.
[13:32] <ogra> i'D propose to use that
[13:32] <persia> Anyway, on to merges:
[13:32] <lool> persia: Could you mail the list when you have something demonstrating it (even with some brokeness)
[13:32] <ogra> persia, that is in the existing setup of the liveCD
[13:32] <persia> I've grabbed another copy of the PPA locally, and started to review what is and what isn't in intrepid.
[13:33] <persia> We're looking pretty good, and unless something goes disastrously wrong with my expectations for installer work, I should be able to push the majority of the interesting ones by Wednesday.
[13:33] <persia> I'll scream if I get behind, and publish a list of things needing doing.
[13:33] <ogra> persia, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/148341
[13:34] <ogra> its just a casper option ... and will save you a lot of grief with screensize
[13:34] <persia> ogra: Do you really want it done that way?  I like the idea of a "install" button, but can do it that way.
[13:34] <ogra> well, it makes the screen you can use bigger
[13:34] <ogra> i like that too, but not for 800x480
[13:34] <ogra> 50px extra height is a lot there
[13:35] <persia> ogra: Hmm.  I'm still not sure it would fit in 480 pixels, but I'll give it a shot.
[13:35] <lool> I personally don't mind if we support either or both; as long as it's not a deep infrastructural change
[13:35] <ogra> decide yourself ... i just think it makes your job easier for now
[13:36]  * ogra would swich that on dynamically depending on available screensize
[13:36] <lool> I agree that ogra that it might be a time saver if we can save ourselves from tweaking 20 ubiquity screens by gaining some pixels; but I don't know how much work we really have on the table either way
[13:36] <persia> ogra: Perhaps.  Last I looked it was over 480.
[13:36] <lool> Ok; persia anything else on your intrepid tasks you'd like to discuss?
[13:36] <persia> Anyway, I'll check that out, and let people know.
[13:37] <lool> persia: thanks
[13:37] <ogra> persia, your tsk, your decision :)
[13:37] <ogra> *task
[13:37] <lool> I guess I can move one?
[13:37] <persia> Not really.  I still haven't pushed the bluez-gnome update I want, or finished the migration of ume-config-* to something more flexible, but neither is really blocking.
[13:37] <lool> (geez sorry for the typos)
[13:38] <ogra> lool, welcome to hte culb
[13:38] <ogra> :P
[13:38] <lool> persia: Is the bluez update MID related?
[13:38] <lool> ogra: hte culb :)
[13:39] <persia> lool: Don't we install bluez-gnome for the bluetooth icon on ubuntu-mid?  I thought it was the same stack, but if it's not, I can miss for intrepid, as Debian will be updating post-Lenny.
[13:40] <lool> persia: I don't understand the connection between the bluez-gnome upadte and MID work
[13:40] <lool> (I'm happy if we get the latest bluez-gnome, I'm just trying to understand whether you're fighting e.g. an issue on MIDs)
[13:40] <ogra> dont we use the bluez applet in MID ?
[13:40] <persia> lool: It's an app that we install that I want to update in the hopes that it won't crash so much, because in hardy it crashes on connect, which takes down hildon-desktop, which takes down X.
[13:41] <lool> Ok; just a regular update, nothing ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu-mid/hildon/moblin specific
[13:41] <lool> Thanks for the clarification
[13:41] <persia> I've not confirmed that it fixes it, but it's the only part of the updated BlueZ stable suite that we don't currently match, and upstream is now focusing on 4.0, so it's just bugfixes.
[13:42] <lool> I wasn't sure whether I was missing some piece of MID specific work we had been putting in bluez
[13:42] <lool> Ok; may I move on?
[13:42] <persia> I'm fairly sure most of that went upstream, but there's a bit of stuff from netbook-remix that I'm also trying to integrate.
[13:43] <lool> Ok, moving on
[13:43] <persia> Yeah, please move on :)
[13:43] <lool> [topic] lool status: MIC merges, etc.?
[13:44] <lool> So I've had reply from moblin people faster than expected on the MIC patch stack; I've been reviewing merges in depth, and checked that we get exactly as much functionality in the merged patches as we have in our tree
[13:45] <lool> It also spinned many side discussions on misc issues I have with MIC in general; details no<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but it's around fsets, platforms and the like
[13:45] <lool> So work is ongoing there and progressing at a good pace
[13:45] <lool> Doesn't really impact intrepid though
[13:46] <lool> Other things I've been worked on were shortly mentionned here; I also poked some desktop-ish bits which don't belong here (pangomm, elisa -- still in progress)
[13:46] <lool> That's about it for *intrepid* related work
[13:47] <lool> I'm happy to answer any question on these topics if you have any; I don't have particular blockers on these tasks
[13:47] <lool> About to move to ogra's status...
[13:48] <lool> [topic] ogra status
[13:48] <ogra> classmate -> image is ready with colins changs to the build tool .... new bug showed up ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/258110
[13:48] <lool> ogra: No particular topics connected with your status update
[13:48] <ogra> which was apparently set to critical tonight :(
[13:48] <lool> But I wanted to ask about health and cmpc :)
[13:49] <lool> ogra: I came across this and wondered whether it was truly a functional requirement for the cmpc release
[13:49] <ogra> health is ok ... nothing was found, i'm taking blood thinners and moved from 40-60 cigarettes to 5/day in spirit of dholbach :)
[13:49] <lool> Sure recording video "would be nice", not sure why it's suddently RC
[13:49] <lool> haha 5-a-day for cigarettes
[13:49] <ogra> no idea, and intel was made aware by me that cheese might no be ready when they asked for cheese inclusion
[13:50] <lool> "Fix 5 bugs before allowing you to a smoke" might also work
[13:50] <ogra> for the mobile team i still dont have a fixed role defined
[13:50] <ogra> so my assumption is that i care for the -mobile seed and general hw/platform enablement
[13:51] <ogra> for that i worked on a gnome-mid setup http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/cellwriter.png and currently poke around with upstream hal on touchscreen enablement in hal-input
[13:51] <lool> ogra: Well we don't have very strict roles either; we mostly reports on current tasks and the tasks were discussed at UDS; I'm happy if you take good care of the mobile seed though
[13:51] <lool> Perhaps we should
[13:51] <lool> 10 minutes warning
[13:52] <ogra> well, i'm still waiting on my official team move ...
[13:52] <lool> ah
[13:52] <ogra> i expect to have some clearification with that
[13:52] <ogra> david said they would discuss it this week on london
[13:52] <lool> Ok
[13:53] <lool> Anything else you'd like to discuss on intrepid tasks?
[13:54] <lool> Otherwise I'll move to the last topic
[13:54] <ogra> no, i'm fine
[13:54] <lool> [topic] Switch claws with modest/libwpeditor libwpeditor-plus?
[13:54] <lool> Who proposed the topic?  davidm?
[13:54] <ogra> why are we stuck with sylpheed ?
[13:55] <ogra> TB seems to work just fine
[13:55] <lool> TB?
[13:55] <ogra> without having to hack it up
[13:55] <ogra> thunderbird
[13:55] <ogra> i use it in the cmpc image on request
[13:55] <lool> Hmm I'm not sure we ever considered thunderbird
[13:56] <ogra> neither of them has e-d-s integration so imho they are equivalent
[13:56] <lool> thunderbird is fine by me at all rates; we have xulrunner software in the platform anyway
[13:56] <persia> We've already got xul loaded, so thunderbird probably isn't even that resource intensive.
[13:56] <ogra> but TB doesnt need patching
[13:56] <lool> claws is okay; it's solid and rich but a bit complex for the screen estate
[13:56] <StevenK> TB might be too big
[13:56] <persia> What about tinymail.  StevenK, weren't you working on that?
[13:56] <lool> The biggest issue with claws are the bdeps
[13:56] <StevenK> tinymail is just a library
[13:56] <lool> Concerning modest, it's hard to judge without uptodate packages
[13:56] <StevenK> Which modest uses
[13:56] <ogra> StevenK, big in what context ? screen or appsize ?
[13:56] <StevenK> ogra: Former
[13:56] <lool> persia: tinymail is the lib counterpart of modest
[13:57] <ogra> StevenK, it works on the classmate at 800x480
[13:57] <lool> I've used thunderbird for a long time at previous job and was satisfied with it in the previous versions
[13:57] <lool> It's simple and clear
[13:58] <lool> Modest might be more lightweight; it's well integrated with hildon libs AFAICT, but we're missing some and are moving away of hildon
[13:58] <persia> What?  We're moving away from hildon again?  I thought we decided last week that we were keeping hildon.
[13:58]  * persia is very confused
[13:58] <ogra> i'm all for tinymail, but i dont see it ready yet or in the near future
[13:58] <lool> persia: I mean on the long term
[13:58] <lool> Was about to add "on the long term"
[13:58] <ogra> e-d-s integration is a good thing
[13:58]  * persia only cares about intrepid right now
[13:58] <lool> persia: I care about intrepid too :)
[13:59] <lool> So if TB works decently and we can keep it when moving away from hildon it's a plus
[13:59] <ogra> we should test it more ... but i didnt find any issues on the cmpc
[13:59] <lool> ogra: I think tinymail and modest landed some good versions now
[13:59] <ogra> (apart from requiring extra langpacks)
[13:59] <lool> ogra: It's not purely development mode anymore
[14:00] <lool> ogra: I'll test it on diablo and report
[14:00] <ogra> ah
[14:00] <lool> Hmm we're over time
[14:00] <ogra> good, we actually filled the meeting with content :)
[14:00] <lool> I'm afraid we'll have to defer to next week to pursue the discussion?
[14:00] <persia> Desktop meeting is cancelled this week, so time is not as critical a factor.
[14:00] <lool> I'd like to take a decision, but lack of uptodate modest and lack of davidm makes it harder
[14:00] <lool> persia: Ah indeed
[14:01] <ogra> we can surely take the decision next week with david available
[14:01] <lool> So to sum up: ogra=pro TB, uses on cmpc
[14:01] <lool> persia=ok with TB, we have xul already
[14:01] <persia> My worry with deferring a week is that next meeting *is* feature freeze.
[14:01] <lool> StevenK=TB might be too big in screen estate
[14:02] <ogra> persia, freeze isnt set in stone
[14:02] <persia> ogra: can you post a screenshot of TB at 800x480?
[14:02] <lool> lool=TB might be a good option for intrepid and intrepid+1, modest needs a refresh to be evaluated decently
[14:02] <ogra> persia, TB is in main, its just a trivial seed change
[14:02] <lool> Anyone in *favor* of keeping claws?
[14:02] <persia> lool: So modest just isn't going to make it for intrepid?
[14:02] <lool> persia: It could
[14:02] <lool> I'll try hard to push it this week
[14:03] <lool> So nobody in favor of claws?
[14:04] <StevenK> claws is unsuitable for main
[14:04] <lool> I personally don't find it well suited for MIDs, but it was a decent Gtk+ client
[14:05] <lool> Ok; shall we defer final decision to next week?
[14:05] <ogra> sabdfl uses TB :) thats a sight guarantee it will stay in main and suported
[14:05] <ogra> ;)
[14:05] <lool> heh
[14:05] <persia> I was a claws user for years, and recently stopped due to bugginess of various sorts.  It simply crashes too often, which is especially painful under hildon-desktop
[14:06] <lool> So the open choice is clearly replace claws with modest or TB; many people with TB positive experience, not enough data for modest yet
[14:06] <lool> Let's check next week
[14:06] <ogra> yeah
[14:06] <lool> About to close the meeting then; unless anyone would like to add a last minute topic
[14:07] <lool> #endmeeting
[14:07] <ogra> yay
[14:07] <lool> Meeting closed, thanks everybody
[14:07] <ogra> thanks
[14:07] <persia> thanks for hosting lool
[14:07]  * ogra goes lunching
[14:12] <lool> .wub 1
[15:00] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[15:00] <dalibor> here
[15:01] <dalibor> hi Koon
[15:01] <Koon> hey guys
[15:02]  * dalibor quickly reboots his intrepid laptop
[15:02] <persia> #startmeeting
[15:02] <persia> [TOPIC] Roadmap review
[15:03] <persia> dalibor: How is progress on identifying tasks for the server stack?
[15:03] <dalibor> i've gone ahead and tried to build glassfish from source, to get a grasp on it
[15:04] <dalibor> checked out from latest svn, on intrepid, using mavn2 from intrepid
[15:04] <dalibor> the regula rmaven build works (i haven't tried out koon's ppa package yet)
[15:04] <dalibor> and it doewloads quite a bunch of jars overall
[15:05] <persia> Right, the trick being that the buildds don't have internet access.
[15:05] <dalibor> most of those are either glassfish/sun specific, so should not be a mavvise problem
[15:05] <dalibor> another large chunk are maven bits and pieces (plugins, plexus,etc.)
[15:05] <dalibor> and then there is the rest of ~ 100 jars, that boild down to a lot fewer dependecies, actually,
[15:06] <dalibor> since most of them are, as I feared, present in multiple versions
[15:06] <dalibor> running the mvn dependency analysis tools works, which is neat
[15:06] <dalibor> and tells you what part of the build requires which dependecies
[15:07] <dalibor> so from the tooling perspecitve, i thnk the 'let's see how it works for a build, then try to figure out where the dependecies are coming from, and which we need to package' should work fine.
[15:08] <dalibor> it's the figuring our which we need to package that may be a bit tricky
[15:08] <dalibor> since it may be necessary to figure out whether some jars need to be present in multiple versions
[15:09] <dalibor> and if my X was working I'd actually be ableto give you an overview of what's required in there Ö
[15:09] <persia> OK.  So things are starting to get in shape, but still nothing ready to pass out as tasks?
[15:10] <dalibor> so, coming back to it all, the next step would be to do the same for other things we are interested in, and figure out a way to automate the matching step
[15:11] <dalibor> i#ve played a bit with trying to script that, and getting apt-cache to do my bidding,
[15:11] <dalibor> but nothing really useful yet
[15:11] <dalibor> except that I can tell that a good deal of the dependencies has actually been packaged already
[15:11] <dalibor> but may or may not be in the version necessary for the build.
[15:12] <persia> That's good news.  If we could even get a list of needs-packaging bugs, we could start targetting it.
[15:12] <dalibor> once I have that automated, the tasks will fall out of that pretty straightforward, i think.
[15:12] <persia> Then getting them updated or getting the software to build with them becomes an achievable goal.
[15:12] <dalibor> yep
[15:13] <persia> Next is slytherin: are you here?
[15:13] <dalibor> deends on the offline supoprt for maven, fof course, but I'm moving n assuming koon & team will find a good way to handle it.
[15:13] <persia> dalibor: That makes sense.  I think as things get broken out, sharing the workload is best.  Once you finish the breakdown, we'll look to you for something else, of course :)
[15:14] <persia> OK.  No word from slytherin, so we'll skip optimisation and universe transition this week,
[15:14] <persia> Koon: Any word on maven?  I remember seeing some discussion about 10 days ago in #ubuntu-java.
[15:15] <Koon> I was on vacation last week so I have no update on this. kaaloo proposed a different implementation
[15:15] <Koon> based on a proxy
[15:15] <persia> kaaloo: Are you about?  How is that going?
[15:16] <dalibor> nope, he's not there
[15:16] <Koon> he added the design to the Spec page
[15:16] <persia> OK.  Anything else to report about maven this week?
[15:17] <Koon> not from my side. kaaloo proposal was the only feedback to my mvn-jpp testing proposal so far
[15:17] <persia> OK.
[15:17] <Koon> I might have more time after feature freeze
[15:17] <Koon> but not atm :)
[15:17] <persia> As a general note, Feature Freeze is next week, so I think most of this is going to be intrepid+1 stuff.
[15:17] <persia> Next up
[15:18] <persia> [TOPIC] Developer week
[15:18] <persia> So, Developer week is coming up.
[15:18] <persia> We've had a couple requests for someone to lead sessions on Java stuff.
[15:18] <persia> Anyone want to volunteer to lead a session?
[15:19] <dalibor> url ?
[15:21] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the schedule-as-work-in-progress
[15:21] <dalibor> thanks, persia
[15:24] <dalibor> unfortunately, next week is bad for me
[15:25] <persia> Anyone else?
[15:25] <persia> (and it's the week past next)
[15:26] <Koon> I don't feel comfortable talking about Ubuntu Java support yet.
[15:26] <Koon> wait at least for my Universe Contributors Application :)
[15:27] <persia> Right.  Maybe someone can convince one of those with more experience (doko, man-di) to give a session.
[15:27] <persia> [TOPIC] Other Business
[15:27] <persia> Anyone have any last minute additions to the agenda?
[15:30] <persia> RIght.  See you next week then.
[15:30] <persia> #endmeeting
[15:30] <Koon> thanks persia
[15:31] <persia> Koon: No, thank you.  I just lead meetings, but you're one of the task leaders making the team happen.
[15:34] <Koon> persia: which makes me think... I should submit an universe contributor application soon, would you consider adding a short endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez ?
[15:34] <Koon> then I'll let you know when I send the application mail to the ML.
[15:38] <cody-somerville> Koon, I think Persia will know
[15:38] <cody-somerville> Koon, Since he is on the MOTU Council
[15:38] <Koon> cody-somerville: sure ;)
[15:38] <cody-somerville> ;]
[15:39] <persia> Koon: Feel free to cc me as someone who would endorse your UUC application.
[15:39] <Koon> persia: ok, thx
[15:42] <slytherin> is the java meeting over?
[15:42] <Koon> slytherin: yes
[15:43] <slytherin> Koon: damn, network problems in office. :-(
[15:45] <persia> slytherin: If you want to give a quick precis on your roadmap items in #ubuntu-java, most of us are still there.
[15:47] <slytherin> persia: I didn't find any time all this week to work on java packages. The only good thing that happened is the sync request I had logged are done. So jaranalyzer is in. I have to now file sync and move to universe bugs for some more libraries.


[23:25] <rmatte> Typos_King: already tried that package and according to the package's home page, it doesn't do anything UI related
[23:26] <rmatte> but even with the package installed it didn't automount my drive
[23:26] <pfred1> does anyone know how I can fix this?   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.18.3-1) but 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:26] <kla> garic, that's the same for xchat proper fyi
[23:26] <jumar> rmatte: try another package called pmount, if nothing works i use that from terminal
[23:27] <rmatte> jumar: I installed pmount
[23:27] <Typos_King> rmatte:    what about gnome-volume-manager package?
[23:27] <jumar> pmount mounts really problematic fat32 and ntfs keys too, udf systems that xubuntu doesnt handle right via thunar, might work with nautilus too
[23:27] <seanbrystone> trism, ok many thanks, some reason sudo apt-get install deskbar(Tab) (Tab) (tab) didnt show "deskbar-applet" or "deskbar"
[23:27] <pfred1> rmatte back in the bad old days I used to have aliases to popular mount commands i always used
[23:27] <jumar> rmatte: tried it in terminal?
[23:28] <kla> pfred1, heheh
[23:28] <hiexpo> hello all
[23:28] <garic> ah ok thx kla
[23:28] <rmatte> Typos_King: gnome-volume-manager is installed, I stated that previously, didn't help at all
[23:28] <Typos_King> rmatte or gnome-mount assuming something might be off with it
[23:28] <pfred1> kla hey they were handy!
[23:28] <rmatte> gnome-mount works
[23:28] <rmatte> it just doesn't work automatically
[23:28] <rmatte> when I plug the drive in it used to automount in 9.04
[23:28] <rmatte> since the upgrade to 9.10 it's been messed up
[23:29] <jumar> rmatte: that too happens with me with dvds and usbs, but pfred suggestion is good
[23:29] <Typos_King> rmatte:   ohhh.... it does mount on GUI, you just want it automounted from bootup
[23:29] <kla> pfred1, no shame in that. I have aliases for configure commands..
[23:29] <pfred1> kla I'm getting hosed getting my system up to building a package right now
[23:29] <rmatte> Typos_King: no, it ONLY mounts on UI if I manually run gnome-mount
[23:29] <jumar> rmatte: i'll run a little search, be back in a few minutes whether theres a solution
[23:29] <pfred1> kla   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.18.3-1) but 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:30] <rmatte> Typos_King: I want it to automatically mount and show in UI right when I plug the USB key in to the system
[23:30] <rmatte> like it used to do
[23:30] <pfred1> kla makes me want to reach for some Slackware floppies!
[23:30] <hiexpo> rmatte, what is it that don't auto mount?
[23:30] <kla> pfred1, :-)
[23:30] <rmatte> I use my USB key a lot, and having to type gnome-mount /dev/sdc1 each time I want to use it is a pain
[23:30] <rmatte> it's a usb data stick/key/storage device
[23:30] <rmatte> whatever you want to call it
[23:31] <pfred1> rmatte it works here
[23:31] <hiexpo> oh ok cause i know my ext hd and cds mount here auto on gnome
[23:31] <Steppzor> i was wondering if there exist any broadcast software for ubuntu too create a tv channel for network streaming with playlist and epg and so on?
[23:31] <zhora_> ubottu, redIago: ALSA it's not all for solved you problem... You most correct install pulse audio server ....
[23:31] <rmatte> pfred1: you're running a clean 9.10 install I assume then, no upgrade?
[23:32] <pfred1> rmatte I just ran a sudo apt-get update
[23:32] <rmatte> actually, now that I think of it, automounting doesn't work on my computer at work either, and it's also running ubuntu 9.10 (clean install of it)
[23:32] <rmatte> so I don't know what they screwed up in 9.10 to make it not work anymore
[23:32] <pfred1> rmatte I have 9.10
[23:32] <hiexpo> thats weird cause mine auto mounts
[23:33] <jumar> rmatte: maybe this works - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1306577&highlight=automount+-working
[23:33] <jumar> reinstalling gnomw-volume-manager
[23:33] <Rowan1> hi
[23:33] <Typos_King> yeah... it has to be the deamon....
[23:33] <Typos_King> daemon rather
[23:33] <kla> maybe automounting requires some group membership the update forgot to add for existing users..
[23:33] <pfred1> no one uses the libgtk2.0-dev package in 9.10 here?
[23:34] <Rowan1> how do i chat on Xfire???????
[23:34] <rmatte> jumar: already did that
[23:34] <Rowan1> >:o
[23:34] <antivirt1l> hello all
[23:34] <rmatte> kla: actually, that's one thing I haven't checked... I'll check right now
[23:34] <kla> rmatte, tried with a fresh user account?
[23:34] <garic> does ngircd accept .crt and .key files for ssl cert and key files?
[23:34] <kla> rmatte, ok
[23:34] <gigakami> Hi I'm trying to create a squashfs filesystem it keeps hangings around 11 percent.
[23:34] <antivirt1l> how can i make a TRM file, what runs my commands inmediatly ?
[23:34] <Typos_King> pfred1   why? hhehe
[23:34] <oz2012> sal allllllllllll
[23:35] <pfred1> Typos_King   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.18.3-1) but 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:35] <kla> !hi | antivirt1l
[23:35] <Typos_King> pfred1  need it? or something
[23:35] <pfred1> Typos_King it'd be nice
[23:35] <jumar> sorry, that was my only shot, test it with pcman filemanager if nautilus is not the only option
[23:35] <bliffle> beep
[23:35] <rmatte> the only group that seems to make sense is plugdev
[23:35] <antivirt1l> how can i make a TRM file, what runs my commands inmediatly ?
[23:35] <rmatte> and I'm already in that group
[23:35] <donvito> skype is avaiable on ubuntu karmic koala?
[23:35] <pfred1> jumar I could install the old stale version I can get with the package manager but I'd like to build the latest to try out on my system
[23:36] <kla> antivirt1l, what's a TRM file, and what do you mean by runs your commands immediately?
[23:36] <antivirt1l> donvito: go to skype.com, then select LINUX, and then download it :) only 2.x
[23:36] <donvito> webcam is working on ubuntu right?
[23:36] <rmatte> yeh, plugdev is the group, so I'm in the right group, so that's not causing the issue
[23:36] <rmatte> running out of ideas here
[23:37] <antivirt1l> kla, do you know windows file: .bat ?
[23:37] <bun_bun> ACPI-OFF ---- How do I add acpi=off to the boot process? I have a Toshiba L505 and it hangs on boot
[23:37] <Typos_King> pfred1 .... so.... which lib do you need?
[23:37] <Slart> antivirt1l: TRM file?
[23:37] <jumar> pfred1, ok, the sole other thing i found on another forum that this a hal issue
[23:37] <antivirt1l> in windows: .bat :)
[23:37] <pfred1> Typos_King the dev package for gtk+ so I can build against it
[23:37] <donvito> webcam is working on ubuntu right?
[23:37] <Slart> antivirt1l: never heard of a trm file.. there are shell scripts though.. that sounds almost like what you're looking for
[23:37] <pfred1> Typos_King sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev fails with the message:   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.18.3-1) but 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:37] <kla> rmatte, I have supplementary groups: groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),104(lpadmin),115(admin),121(sambashare) and my systems auto-mounts fine, though it's a lucid iinstall
[23:38] <Typos_King> bun_bun:      in the Grub label/menu entry, press 'e' to edit, go to the line with the linux image usually says 'quiet no-splash'   and add acpi=off or noapic
[23:38] <antivirt1l> if I make a text file, for example: asd.bat, what contains: ping /t ubuntu.com
[23:38] <antivirt1l> for example
[23:38] <rmatte> kla:
[23:38] <rmatte> raw@nemesis:~$ groups
[23:38] <rmatte> raw adm dialout voice cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev games users fuse lpadmin admin sambashare vboxusers
[23:38] <antivirt1l> :)
[23:38] <pfred1> Typos_King which is obviously a tremendious screw up on the part of Ubuntu
[23:38] <antivirt1l> how can i do it here ?
[23:38] <rmatte> looks about the same
[23:38] <brjann> Typos_King: acpi=off and noapic aren't the same thing
[23:38] <Slart> antivirt1l: I would call that a shell script
[23:38] <bun_bun> Typos_King: thank you. Does this work after a full install?
[23:38] <donvito> webcam is working on ubuntu right?
[23:38] <donvito> webcam is working on ubuntu right?
[23:38] <antivirt1l> ok, I google it
[23:38] <hiexpo> sudo apt-get install skype
[23:39] <donvito> what about the webcam???
[23:39] <Typos_King> pfred1   sounds the package you're installing needs older version than the one you already have installed.... meaning adding it will just create a lib conflict, if it does at all
[23:39] <Slart> antivirt1l: those work the same as the windows bat files.. you write commands.. one per line.. they get executed just like if you typed them yourself
[23:39] <Slart> donvito: some do.. some don't
[23:39] <Typos_King> bun_bun.... ohh this is from the live-cd menu?
[23:39] <Slart> !webcam | donvito
[23:39] <pfred1> Typos_King no I don't have the dev package installed on my system at all
[23:40] <jumar> rmatte: tried to stop and start udev?
[23:40] <bun_bun> Typos_King - no I have already installed. I just tried the option you recommended.... stand by
[23:40] <bun_bun> no good. it still takes me to a command line
[23:40] <Typos_King> bun_bun...ok.... once you add that to that line, do a ctrl-x  to use the line
[23:40] <antivirt1l> Slart thanks, I 'll see a tutorial :)
[23:40] <bun_bun> One error says "acpi:LNXVIDEO: unexpected exit with s tatus 0x009
[23:41] <Slart> antivirt1l: you're welcome.. good luck
[23:41] <pfred1> Typos_King dpkg --status libgtk2.0-dev Package `libgtk2.0-dev' is not installed and no info is available.
[23:41] <gigakami> I keep gettin errors similier to this: Failed to read file edit/proc/dma, creating empty file
[23:41] <Typos_King> bun_bun    did you press enter when done, or press ctrl-x after editing it?
[23:41] <jumar> pfred1, i serched for this launchpad page - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/463347
[23:41] <bun_bun> heheh, I hit escape ... trying again.  :)
[23:41] <gigakami> and then mksquashfs never completes.
[23:41] <gigakami> it just hangs around 11 percent
[23:41] <Typos_King> bun_bun   :|,   ctrl-x to  'boot from line' :|
[23:41] <pfred1> jumar checking it out now
[23:42] <bun_bun> trying
[23:42] <Typos_King> k
[23:42] <bun_bun> will that change remain in the grub settings?
[23:42] <rmatte> jumar: yeh, I have
[23:42] <zhora_> donvito: For correct working webcam in skype...do this script: #!/bin/bash LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/v4l2convert.so skype
[23:42] <bun_bun> or will I have to set it every time?
[23:42] <bun_bun> (it's an old lady using the box)
[23:43] <Typos_King> bun_bun   no, to make the changes permanent, you'd need to add it in /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[23:43] <Cristobal> lol
[23:43] <kla> bun_bun, you edit /etc/default/grub  with your custom command-line options and then run update-grub2
[23:43] <bun_bun> ok - that's what I had trouble with before. where exactly in grub.cfg do I add the line?
[23:43] <bun_bun> I've already nano'd it and tried
[23:43] <rmatte> hmmm that's weird
[23:44] <kla> bun_bun, or better yet, 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc'
[23:44] <rmatte> I supposedly have gnome-volume-manager installed but /usr/bin/gnome-volume-manager doesn't exist, when it apparently should
[23:44] <bun_bun> kla: Typos_King: do I edit boot/grub/grub.cfg or /etc/default/grub ?
[23:44] <bun_bun> heheh, please slow down :)
[23:44] <kla> bun_bun, I think you're better off with the dpkg-reconfigure command
[23:44] <Cristobal> jaja
[23:44] <Cristobal> fuck
[23:45] <Typos_King> bun_bun   try kla's spot first, since that's a big more global of a change
[23:45] <kla> !language | Cristobal
[23:45] <bun_bun> ok, just sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc ?
[23:45] <Cristobal> bitch
[23:45] <rmatte> also, if I run gnome-volume-properties there is no storage tab, when there should be
[23:45] <jumar> pfred1 and rmatte: i got no more ideas, maybe udev rules are the problem, but it seems that a lot of people have this issue in karmic
[23:45] <kla> bun_bun, right, run that from a terminal
[23:45] <bun_bun> running now. stand by
[23:45] <nitrate_> Hi, Just upgraded from 9.04 to 9.10. No audio anymore. Any hints to get it working? (system->pref->sound has a empty hardware/device list)
[23:45] <Gnosiz> hey, does Ubuntu Netbook Remix work on Asus Eee 4g ?
[23:45] <rmatte> jumar: well, I hope that it's fixed in the next version, it's quite frustrating
[23:45] <Gnosiz> I've seen mixed answers.
[23:46] <kla> !sound | nitrate_
[23:46] <nich0s> Question: Is there a channel dedicated to answering questions about getting DHCP to work properly for a total n00b to the subject?
[23:46] <ikonia> nich0s: no
[23:46] <nich0s> ikonia, Shall I just ask them here then or should I take my questions to tubes?
[23:46] <ikonia> nich0s: are you using ubuntu ?
[23:47] <nich0s> ikonia, Yes
[23:47] <jumar> rmatte: if its a clean install then you should try to install jaunty
[23:47] <ikonia> nich0s: then, you're in Ubuntu support, so ask
[23:47] <bun_bun> after I run sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc it's asking me now for a "Linux command line"
[23:47] <bun_bun> what do I type there?
[23:47] <nitrate_> thanks kla, I shall have a look at it now.
[23:47] <Typos_King> heheh
[23:47] <Steppzor> I installed my nvidia graphic drivers and rebooted. but not the screen is black.. what to do?
[23:47] <jumar> lucid is coming in april or june, so jaunty is an option
[23:48] <jumar> still
[23:48] <Typos_King> bun_bun   try kla's spot first, since that's a big more global of a change   <---- if that's no there, you can always use /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[23:48] <pfred1> how in the heck can a distribution have one of the most important libraries in it screwed up as colossally as this?
[23:48] <bun_bun> kla: did I need to change something in /etc/ before the dpkg command?
[23:48] <ralf_> hi all, just finishing off ubuntu for a 78 year old with eldy software but i have one problem
[23:48] <Typos_King> pfred1:   what do you mean? it was already installed?
[23:48] <pfred1> Typos_King no it isn't
[23:49] <kla> bun_bun, nope no changing anything, put the options on the second prompt no the first
[23:49] <pfred1> Typos_King Package `libgtk2.0-dev' is not installed and no info is available.
[23:49] <rmatte> right, so my gnome-volume-manager executable is actually missing, I tried removing and reinstall it from aptitude but same results, that's probably my issue
[23:49] <Typos_King> pfred1:   have you done.... a sudo apt-get update?
[23:49] <donvito> with what kind of messenger can i spoke with webcam and voice i mean MSN ONE
[23:49] <kla> bun_bun, leave first dialog as is, click next, enter options, click next, select drive(s), click ok.. wait.. reboot. done
[23:49] <pfred1> Typos_King and it can't install because the stupid package manager is getting confused with the library name suffix!
[23:49] <jumar> pfred1: there are always issues like that, i smashed my head to the wall with hardy and that was an lts, nearly killed my laptop, but intrepid solved a lot of things, then jaunty, so what i do now if i can solve something in a week in my spare time, i wait
[23:49] <bun_bun> kk
[23:50] <kla> pfred1, and the packagers insists on a '=' version check..
[23:50] <pfred1> Typos_King been there done that
[23:50] <Crewsr3> does it matter if the output on a check sum has capital letters or lower case letters.  I have two checks sums and they match accept one has the letters capitalized and the other does not.  Does this matter
[23:50] <ralf_> how an earth do i create a quit button on desktop instead of menu then quit?
[23:50] <Ryan1> Crewsr3: No
[23:50] <Crewsr3> Ryan1, so I can safely say they match?
[23:50] <Ryan1> Crewsr3: Yes
[23:50] <Crewsr3> Ryan1, thanks!
[23:51] <Typos_King> ralf_    isn't the distribution already mapping the Power button on the computer for 'poweroff'?
[23:51] <actionParsnip> yo yo yo
[23:51] <Typos_King> ralf_    that might be sipler for her, no?
[23:51] <Cristobal> hello
[23:51] <Typos_King> s/sip/simp/
[23:51] <pfred1> Cristobal hi
[23:51] <ralf_> @Typos_King how do i do that?
[23:52] <Typos_King> ralf_    isn't the distribution already mapping the Power button on the computer for 'poweroff'?
[23:52] <bun_bun> that helps y'all - I'm playin with it now... thanks!
[23:52] <ralf_> by the way its him called ralf .. my name is fintan by the way :-)
[23:52] <Typos_King> ralf_   usually they do, depending on the hardware
[23:52] <balas> i'm entering the correct password for the default keyring on karmic but it keeps getting rejected.  any ideas why or how to fix ?
[23:52] <Cristobal> algun español
[23:52] <ikonia> !es | Cristobal
[23:53] <bun_bun> one thing: TOSHIBA does not like Linux. Hrmph
[23:53] <antivirt1l> exit
[23:53] <ralf_> knowing him he will quit eldy software and then push the power off button but id like a big icon for him on desktop
[23:53] <Cristobal> olaaa
[23:53] <ikonia> Cristobal: english only please
[23:53] <Cristobal> me no english
[23:54] <ikonia> !es | Cristobal
[23:54] <Cristobal> yes
[23:54] <donvito> with what kind of messenger can i spoke with webcam and voice i mean MSN ONE
[23:54] <jumar> ralf_ on your panels that's not okay?
[23:54] <ralf_> bun_bun I have a toshiba laptop never had a problem with linux :-)
[23:54] <ikonia> Cristobal: En la mayoría de canales de Ubuntu se habla sólo en inglés. Si busca ayuda en español o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter
[23:54] <Cristobal> jaja
[23:54] <jumar> you can make that big too
[23:54] <Fade> is there a powerpc specific ubuntu channel on freenode?
[23:55] <jumar> it's a simple launcher, try to create one on the desktop or panel
[23:55] <bun_bun> ralf_ the older version was fine. I thought they were good but we just bought a brand new L505 and it's garbage IMO
[23:55] <ralf_> jumar i suppose i could show him but i really want to get rid off all menu panels
[23:55] <kla> Fade, #ubuntu-ppc
[23:55] <Fade> thanks, kla
[23:55] <kla> Fade, y/w
[23:55] <Cristobal> very good
[23:56] <wizard00> scream "chocolate milk" if ur a kickass person!!!!!
[23:56] <donvito> with what kind of messenger can i spoke with webcam and voice i mean MSN ONE
[23:56] <donvito> with what kind of messenger can i spoke with webcam and voice i mean MSN ONE
[23:56] <ikonia> wizard00: please don't mess around in here
[23:56] <donvito> no one answer me
[23:56] <donvito> damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
[23:56] <ikonia> wizard00: this channel is for ubuntu support only
[23:56] <FloodBot2> donvito: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:56] <Cristobal> mi friend do you like jatch
[23:56] <ikonia> donvito: please give people a chance to respond
[23:56] <Typos_King> donvito:   the wha?    can't use skype?
[23:56] <donvito> i want amsn
[23:56] <donvito> or msn one
[23:56] <ralf_> i have 2 options for him.. just desktop icond for firefox and email of just mainly use eldy software  http://www.eldy.eu/
[23:57] <wizard00> i have ubuntu 4.10 and i cant install anything
[23:57] <pfred1> donvito can i get an amsn?
[23:57] <ikonia> wizard00: that is a dead (end of life version)
[23:57] <ikonia> !eol | wizard00
[23:58] <jumar> ralf_ im on xfce right now, but it must be a gnome-session command with flags, so the launcher you create got to have that command and any icon you like
[23:58] <ralf_> he had windows pc in house and not been used for 2 years how ever if i just have simple icons on desktop and get rid of menu panels and the like he would use it more
[23:58] <Typos_King> donvito:     msn.... they do video..... didn'tknow nor do I use them anyhow... .... can't say
[23:58] <jumar> ralf_ or an extra command, right now i cant test it
[23:58] <pfred1> wizard00 thats OK I have Ubuntu 9.10 and i can't seem to install the libgtk2.0-dev package myself!
[23:58] <wizard00> is 5.10 a EOL version??
[23:59] <wizard00> ubuntu
[23:59] <ikonia> pfred1: whats the problem installing it
[23:59] <jpds> wizard00: Yes.
[23:59] <ralf_> jumar ho do i do that?
[23:59] <ikonia> wizard00: yes, 8.04 is the latest current
[23:59] <pfred1> ikonia Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (=2.18.3-1) but 2.18.3-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:59] <ikonia> wizard00: as in the earliest available
[23:59] <kla> wizard00, I'd say so, it's been 5 years
[23:59] <ikonia> pfred1: why is that a problem?
[23:59] <pfred1> ikonia bwcause it won't install
[23:59] <Typos_King> pfred1   there's a way to 'force' it in dpkg, and if you succeed most likely it'll just create conflicts
[23:59] <wizard00> ok. so to install software i need to get a newer release (8.04 in particular?)
[23:59] <cfedde> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu/release-cycle%20
[23:59] <jumar> please someone help us with gnome-session logout-shutdown from command line, so ralf_ will be abel to create a launcher ont the desktop


 Cleaned up the..." <- Snaps are secure by their very nature, please don't spread fud.
[22:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Also, watch your language here.
[22:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Not sure what's going on with the IRC bridge, but I didn't see any of the past few days until just now.
 "Livestreamer CAM313 Mono is..." <- Not sure, you might try #ubuntu:libera.chat .
[22:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> Might not be supported by the kernel.
[22:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> David Wilde There was nothing wrong with your system before you started purging stuff. Installation from the official .iso image is good. If you got the .iso from somewhere else (such as the "rolling .iso" that someone made), we can't guarantee anything.
[22:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> To me, it sounds like you didn't read the release notes.
[22:22] <Eickmeyer> !morehelp
[22:26] <Eickmeyer> !fud


[01:07] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, interesting observation. Installing an older Breeze into Kinetic doesn't solve the problem.
[01:08] <arraybolt3[m]> But installing a newer one into Jammy does. So I guess... grumble, maybe I need a Jammy VM then...
[01:08] <guiverc> @Leokolb noticed (a couple of days ago) the install logo on our kinetic ISO no longer runs, it has a (!) on it & requires you to "trust this executable" before it'll run.. Can we return this to executing without 'trust this' being used?  (has it been discussed ^ & i've missed it)
[01:09] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: I think it has to do with a recent libfm-qt fiasco that's supposed to just go away eventually (Simon already has it taken care of and, if I'm understanding correctly, it just needs accepted and then gotten into the ISO).
[01:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: ^ Double-check me on above so we're not playing telephone
[01:09] <guiverc> @Leokolb, filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm-qt/+bug/1981938 but I suspect a new bug maybe required
[01:09] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1981938 in libfm-qt (Ubuntu) "Selecting Install Lubuntu 22.10 from desktop results in error" [Undecided, Fix Released]
[01:10] <guiverc> Yeah I noted libfm-qt stuff mentioned; didn't pay enough attention I guess, so thanks arraybolt3[m]
 "OK, interesting observation..." <- Or maybe I just wasn't testing right - I'm realizing there may have been a better way to test than what I was doing...
[06:57] <RikMills> bug does not appear to be in breeze, but one of the frameworks 5.98 that it depends on
[07:00] <RikMills> e.g. in jammy vm, add backports-extra ppa. in synpatic select up upgrade kde-style-breeze to 5.25.5, and allow it to mark its 5.98 deps to install. then untick kde-style-breeze so it stays at 5.24.6. do update. log out and in. see the bug!
[07:00] <RikMills> only packages that upgraded were frameworks ones
[07:36] <RikMills> the issue seems to appear when libkf5configwidgets5 is upgraded from 5.92.0 to 5.98.0
[07:37] <RikMills> will see if I can narrow it down to a particular frameworks release later
[07:58] <RikMills> 5.95.0 seems ok
[08:06] <RikMills> 5.97.0 = ok, 5.98.0 = bug
[08:11] <RikMills> looks possible: https://invent.kde.org/frameworks/kconfigwidgets/-/commit/8c078b50fc867df0396c7cf76ff000a747de1043
[08:11] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Commit 8c078b5 in frameworks/kconfigwidgets "Deduplicate color loading code"
[08:14]  * RikMills goes to get coffee
[08:58] <RikMills> reverting that commit appears to fix things in lxqt
[09:23]  * RikMills talks to the guy who committed that......
[11:04] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Welp, I got to help a tiny bit with saying it wasn't in Breeze at least...
[11:04] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Thanks, and nice going!
[11:08] <RikMills> potential fix test building in https://launchpad.net/~rikmills/+archive/ubuntu/bug1992196
[11:11] <arraybolt3[m]> I thought I must just be really bad at what I was doing when no amount of "git checkout <whatever>; cmake -S . -B ../build --install-prefix /usr; cd ../build; make -j8; sudo make install" was doing the trick.
[11:11] <arraybolt3[m]> So I am really relieved to hear it wasn't in Breeze, so now I don't feel quite so silly :P
[11:14] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, VM booting, should be ready to test the fix any minute now.
[11:19] <RikMills> seems to work
[11:19] <RikMills> will have to test if it has any consequence in Kubuntu
[11:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Still waiting for the PPA to build on my end.
[11:20] <RikMills> it is built, but not published. I grabbed the .debs because I was impatient
[11:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Heh, makes sense
[11:24] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Works for me on a Lubuntu Kinetic ISO.
[11:24] <RikMills> \o/
[11:26] <arraybolt3[m]> And once again I'm missing an ISO on this system, so I'm zsyncing Kubuntu now to help test it.
[11:30] <RikMills> menus in kubuntu seem normal
 Tested in Lubuntu Kinetic and works good - no errors encountered..@RikMills (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <RikMills> potential fix test building in https://launchpad.net/~rikmills/+archive/ubuntu/bug1992196)
[12:08] <tsimonq2> Thank you very much RikMills, I appreciate it :) please let me know if there's anything else I can do to help
[12:08] <arraybolt3[m]> About 70% done with the Kubuntu zsync, so we should be verified soon.
[12:09] <tsimonq2> And I appreciate the testing from everyone, and help on diagnosing the fix. Thanks to Leo and Aaron (that I'm immediately seeing in the scrollback :))
[12:10]  * tsimonq2 ➡ ☕
[12:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice.
[12:10] <RikMills> np
[12:11] <RikMills> fyi, upstream merge https://invent.kde.org/frameworks/kconfigwidgets/-/merge_requests/164
[12:11] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Merge 164 in frameworks/kconfigwidgets "Intialize default decoration colors" [Opened]
[12:11] <RikMills> got to go run a few errands. if still looks good later, with comment on that merge and get this uploaded
 "[telegram] <teward001> *beats..." <- Can I just say I really liked XP and used it a lot back in the days when I used Windows?
[12:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I even still have a Windows XP disk around here somewhere.
[12:39] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Everything seems to work fine with your patch on Kubuntu.
[13:05] <RikMills> uploaded. will obviously hit the unapproved queue
 "Can I just say I really liked XP..." <- Windows XP was my first ever desktop OS, so I will always have some kind of affection for it :)
 "uploaded. will obviously hit the..." <- Thanks again!
 "Windows XP was my first ever..." <- Win95 was my first, but 2000 was the one I really used until I got an XP system. Trying to run Win3.1 and Win95 software on that box gave me a large interest in retrocomputing due to how tricky it was :P
[13:51] <arraybolt3[m]> I wonder how easy it would be to boot CP/M on a KFocus XE...
[13:51] <arraybolt3[m]> (In an emulator of course)
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: You have already uploaded the fixed libfm-qt, right?
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm finishing up a QA test and want to know if I should change the libfm-qt bug back to Confirmed, Fix Committed, or leave it at Fix Released.
[17:44] <kc2bez[m]> It still sits in proposed.
[17:46] <kc2bez[m]> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm-qt
[17:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also just learned you can't change the bug status of a Fix Released bug.)
[17:50] <kc2bez[m]> If you are referring to the trusted desktop entry it should be added to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm-qt/+bug/1992537
[17:50] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1992537 in libfm-qt (Ubuntu) "lubuntu kinetic 'install lubuntu 22.10' icon isn't trusted?" [Undecided, New]
[17:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Yep, found it.
[18:30] <kc2bez[m]> Thank you Simon Quigley
[18:31] <tsimonq2> Of course :)