[23:10] <OpenSorce> Netek, the good thing is, if your Win 10 is Activated all you have to do is re-install it later if you want it back. The hardware on your machine is already registered and will be used to re-activate it.
[23:10] <upsetguy> bastepin is blocked in my country ( dunno why ) you can check it from here : http://hastebin.com/raw/zabukafapu
[23:10] <EriC^^> Netek: well, make the recovery usb's , i'd leave the recovery partition, you can always use a workaround, it involves manually extracting the image on the recovery partition
[23:10] <hdon_> Jordan_U: although 1MB seems kinda small... but enough for the bootloader?
[23:10] <Netek> OpenSorce I do not have a licence sticker on the laptop
[23:11] <OpenSorce> Netek, look in Windows and see if it's activated. If so you won't need the sticker.
[23:11] <daftykins> Netek: 8+ have the license key in the EFI.
[23:11] <Netek> EriC^^ I will see about the usb recovery, surely a cd would do?
[23:11] <EriC^^> Rene___: ok, what did dpkg --configure -a return?
[23:11] <Netek> ok thanks for the info :)
[23:11] <EriC^^> Netek: the recovery partition is usually 16gb or so
[23:11] <EriC^^> so either 4dvd's or a usb :)
[23:11] <Jordan_U> hdon_: No, the reason for that is described https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/BIOS-installation.html (the need for an embedding area is explained in the first paragraph, "MBR").
[23:12] <Netek> on mine its 12 but yeah I see what you mean hah
[23:12] <Rene___> eric^^ nothing special
[23:12] <Jordan_U> hdon_: The problem is that the kernel images, grub modules, and grub.cfg all also need to be read using BIOS interrupts, and so also need to lie within your BIOSs limits.
[23:13] <EriC^^> Rene___: ok, try sudo apt-get -f install
[23:13] <Rene___> eric^^: tells me 3 not updated
[23:13] <EriC^^> Rene___: ok, try lspci | grep nvidia | pastebinit
[23:14] <EriC^^> Rene___: also, sudo apt-get update , then sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[23:14] <Jordan_U> OpenSorce: So you're saying that both sda1 and sdb1 contain normal Windows installations? That neither of those is a recovery partition?
[23:14] <hdon_> Jordan_U: ohh, right. i did read that :\
[23:15] <OpenSorce> Jordan_U, on this machine, yeah. But on hers it's just one showing "Windows Recovery Environment"
[23:15] <Rene___> eric^^: first one he tells me im trying to send a blank document
[23:15] <hdon_> well, in the meantime.. any idea what kernel argument will get me a shell before the root filesystem is mounted?
[23:16] <hdon_> and, are BIOS still generally flashable?
[23:16] <teward> hdon_: not sure you sanely can
[23:16] <Rene___> eric^^: other 2 should work
[23:17] <hdon_> teward: flash BIOS or get boot shell pre-root fs?
[23:17] <teward> hdon_: and as for BIOS flashing, yes BIOS can be flashed, but only if the system has a BIOS.  (and not all manufacturers provide a Linux flashing method that works)
[23:17] <teward> hdon_: in the order of questions asked
[23:17] <hdon_> hmm..
[23:17] <hdon_> define "sanely"
[23:17] <Bashing-om> Rene___: EriC^^ ' dpkg -l | grep -i nvidia | pastebinit ' As a double check there are no Nvidia modules ??
[23:18] <upsetguy> Jordan_u , ubottu : i got no rush, but just tell me you are here :)
[23:18] <teward> upsetguy: ubottu's a bot.  it doesn't reply to those things :P
[23:20] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Please pastebin the ouptut of "sudo blkid".
[23:20] <Rene___> bashing-om: i
[23:20] <Rene___> m
[23:20] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Did you delete any partition before installing Ubuntu?
[23:21] <Rene___> bashing-om: im owning nvidia gforce gtx680 if thats what youre asking for
[23:22] <Catopett> A way to restore sector 0 is to repartitionning harddrive?
[23:22] <Bashing-om> Rene___: "dpkg' will look for any drivers that are installed .
[23:22] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: my windows partition is sda1
[23:22] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: but even in nautilus it doesnt show up
[23:23] <Jordan_U> Catopett: What do you mean by "restore"? There are many valid combinations of bytes that can be held in the MBR.
[23:23] <Rene___> bashing-om: paste.ubuntu.com/13839038/
[23:25] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: What do you mean by "but it doesnt ask me to "install ubuntu along windows" thing"?
[23:25] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: as i know, when installing ubuntu, it asks something like "install ubuntu along windows"
[23:26] <Bashing-om> Rene___: eriic^^ ::  That do say that the 352 driver is installed ( but not that it may be broken ) and there are no driver conflicts .
[23:26] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Normally it does, yes. Did it not do that when you installed Ubuntu?
[23:26] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: no it doesnt show up
[23:27] <Rene___> bashing-om: dont know if you could read it but i was thinking about cpu driver issues
[23:27] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: You keep using the present tense, "doesn't". I'm asking you what "did" happen (past tense) when you installed Ubuntu?
[23:27] <Rene___> bashing-om: when i could still start the system it showed unknown in that spot
[23:27] <hdon_> so, this is strange
[23:27] <hdon_> my grub shell can see the raided filesystem just fine
[23:28] <Jordan_U> hdon_: That's not strange at all.
[23:28] <Bashing-om> Rene___: As I understand it, presently the suspicsion is a graphic'd driver issue . We can purge and re-install the driver easily .
[23:28] <hdon_> Jordan_U: but for some reason, the kernel can't finish booting. it gets in an infinite loop
[23:28] <django_> hey
[23:28] <Rene___> okay, how?
[23:29] <django_> can you play WoW on ubuntu?
[23:29] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: sorry that im not native speaker. there was an option like format all disk and install ubuntu, which i didnt choose, i chose "something else option" and there was a empty partition which i left for ubuntu. i chose it and installed the ubuntu on that partition. i didnt formatted the windows partition
[23:29] <hdon_> Jordan_U: trying to set up the same mdadm raid that grub has no probelm with
[23:29] <Catopett> sudo apt-get install zandronum does not work, howdo?
[23:29] <hdon_> Catopett: what's the error message?
[23:30] <Catopett> Cannot find package ZANDRONUM
[23:30] <OerHeks> Catopett, it is not in the ubuntu repos, see their website howto install http://wiki.zandronum.com/Install_Zandronum_on_Ubuntu
[23:31] <hdon_> Catopett: do what OerHeks said :)
[23:32] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om said As I understand it, presently the suspicsion is a graphic'd driver issue . We can purge and re-install the driver easily .
[23:32] <Rene___> eric^^ after posting paste.ubuntu.com/13839038/
[23:32] <Jordan_U> OpenSorce: While I'm curious why os-prober is misidentifying your partitions, I don't have time to look into why it's doing so right now. Please file a bug report about it, by running "ubuntu-bug os-prober", and in the mean time you can do the following: Open your grub.cfg (to read, not to modify) and find the working but incorrectly named entry for Windows and copy it. Then create a new file /boot/grub/custom.cfg: ...
[23:32] <Jordan_U> ... "gksudo gedit /boot/grub/custom.cfg" and paste the entry into this new file. Then change the title to be whatever you want, save the file and quit gedit. You can now reboot and test that there is a new entry with the proper name (the old entry with the wrong name will still be there), test that it works. Once you know it works, you can get rid of the incorrectly named entry by adding "GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true" to ...
[23:32] <Rene___> eric^^ just to keep you up to date
[23:33] <Jordan_U> ... your /etc/default/grub and running "sudo update-grub".
[23:33] <Catopett> getting:
[23:33] <Catopett> wget -O - http://debian.drdteam.org/drdteam.gpg | sudo apt-key add
[23:33] <Catopett> --2015-12-08 23:32:06--  http://debian.drdteam.org/drdteam.gpg
[23:33] <Catopett> Resolving debian.drdteam.org (debian.drdteam.org)... <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:33] <Catopett> Connecting to debian.drdteam.org (debian.drdteam.org)|<IP_ADDRESS>|:80... connected.
[23:33] <Catopett> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
[23:33] <hdon_> Catopett: please stop
[23:34] <OpenSorce> Jordan_U, it occurs to me that on my machine and the other one that Windows partition has the windows boot loader on it. That's why it's doing that.
[23:34] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: OK.  The fact that the Ubuntu installer didn't offer to install "along side" Windows suggests that this same problem existed before installing.
[23:34] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: i think i found the issue, since its corporate windows, its using safeboot
[23:35] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: What is "safeboot"?
[23:35] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: the disk is crypted
[23:35] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: OK, that explains everything then. We should be able to just add an entry for it manually then.
[23:36] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: one of you still there?
[23:36] <EriC^^> Rene___: yeah
[23:36] <EriC^^> did you run apt-get dist-upgrade?
[23:36] <Bashing-om> Rene___: Yeah .
[23:36] <hdon_> the OP message here is exactly what i am experiencing, but there are lots of different things that can go wrong here, so lots of answers on the web for how to solve it: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/2hutu4/raid_boot_error/
[23:37] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: so what sould i do ? :/
[23:38] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Normally I don't like creating entries that use static device names, but we can't get a UUID from a partition that is encrypted like this so just know that if you add another drive or move drives around this entry may need to be modified.
[23:39] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: how do i reinstall it then?
[23:41] <Bashing-om> Rene___: Still awaiting "  EriC^^> did you run apt-get dist-upgrade? " Then we adrress re-installing the graqphic's driver .
[23:41] <EriC^^> Rene___: try sudo apt-get install linux-generic
[23:41] <EriC^^> Rene___: then sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
[23:41] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Create a new text file /boot/grub/custom.cfg (*not* grub.cfg) using the following command "gksudo gedit /boot/grub/custom.cfg" and then paste the following contents into it: http://paste.debian.net/plain/342409 then save the file and quit gedit.
[23:42] <django_> can you play WoW on ubuntu?
[23:43] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: done. is that all ?
[23:44] <mcphail> django_: not officially, but I think some people play it using a program called Wine. Not sure how well it works, though
[23:44] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: already is the newest version for the first one the second one everything is 0
[23:44] <k1l_> !wine | django_
[23:44] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Now, if you boot holding shift you should see a grub menu with the option to boot Windows. If you want it to show even if you don't hold shift then add "timeout=10" to /boot/grub/custom.cfg .
[23:45] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: so there is no update grub or something huh ?
[23:45] <upsetguy> Jordan_U: let me reboot and try, but it looks like the drive is done.
[23:46] <Bashing-om> Rene___: EriC^^ I would ' sudo apt-get purge nvidia* ;  sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall ' . Wont hurt to see what results .
[23:46] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: Correct, there is no need to run update-grub after changing custom.cfg (only needed after changing /etc/default/grub).
[23:49] <Jordan_U> upsetguy: I will be away for a while, but I will come back.
[23:49] <upsetguy_> Jordan_U: no chance. still nothing is showing up.
[23:49] <EriC^^> Rene___: try sudo apt-get install linux-generic
[23:49] <OpenSorce> django_, look up playonlinux and codeweavers
[23:50] <django_> OpenSorce, ty
[23:50] <Jordan_U> upsetguy_: Did you hold shift during boot?
[23:50] <Catopett> In windows i have doom 3, does this have the iwads i need to zandronum?
[23:50] <upsetguy_> Jordan_U: yes the menu show up, but no windows entry
[23:50] <Jordan_U> upsetguy_: "gksudo gedit /boot/grub/custom.cfg" add a new line containing "timeout=10" (without the quotes). Then save quit and reboot again.
[23:50] <Jordan_U> upsetguy_: Ahh, nvm, back later.
[23:51] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: trying what bashing said before you
[23:51] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: taking quite a while
[23:51] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: but finished now
[23:52] <upsetguy_> Jordan_U: i think installing ubuntu corrupted all the stuff.
[23:52] <EriC^^> Rene___: sudo apt-get install linux-generic , then sudo apt-get purge nvidia* , then sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
[23:53] <Rene___> eric^^ did that already
[23:53] <EriC^^> ok
[23:53] <EriC^^> try rebooting
[23:53] <EriC^^> sudo reboot
[23:56] <Catopett> What is different between reboot and init 5?
[23:57] <hdon_> upsetguy: init 5 won't shut down your kernel
[23:57] <hdon_> sorry i meant that for Catopett
[23:57] <newb123> I'm trying to mount a partition in initramfs. While I can see it in initramfs, I can't seem to mount it. Any idea how to get more than "Invalid argument" information?
[23:57] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: its weird, hes logging in again but not showing anything but the background
[23:57] <hdon_> Catopett: init 5 will change your run level. so, a bunch of processes will be stopped. if that's all you need, then you can do that.
[23:58] <hdon_> newb123: how'd you get an initramfs shell?
[23:59] <hdon_> newb123: i mean, can you ask for a shell before initramfs tries to mount the new root filesystem?
[23:59] <newb123> hdon: I got there during boot up.
[23:59] <Rene___> eric^^: bashing-om: when im choosing guest access its working
[23:59] <Bashing-om> Rene___: What options do you get when right clicking on the desktop ?
[23:59] <hdon_> newb123: did it have an error and then drop you to the shell?
[23:59] <Catopett> Do i use dd to copy all harddrive to usb drive or what do i use, i need to get usbdrive bootable
[23:59] <Bashing-om> Catopett: "  Runlevel 0 is used to halt the


[00:53] <maco> Hi everybody.
[00:58] <maco> Well - anybody from marketing team available for chat?
[00:59] <johnc4510-laptop> don't know if i can help you or not, but i'll try
[00:59] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[01:00] <maco> Why is Marketing section on the wiki a total mess?
[01:01] <johnc4510-laptop> that i no nothing about, can you be more specific about which section please
[01:01] <maco> A sec. :)
[01:01] <johnc4510-laptop> kk
[01:02] <maco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
[01:02] <maco> there it starts
[01:02] <johnc4510-laptop> looking    hang on
[01:03] <maco> the pages just does not lead anywhere - most of the links are broken
[01:03] <maco> and the information available is useless
[01:04] <johnc4510-laptop> looks like someone edited on that page today quite a bit
[01:05] <johnc4510-laptop> we'll get someone to look at it
[01:05] <johnc4510-laptop> thx for bringing it to our attention
[01:07] <maco> Well generally speaking is actually Ubuntu Marketing team productive in any ways? Are there any comclusions/notes/minutes available I can go through?
[01:08] <maco> I have found some notes from meetings.
[01:09] <johnc4510-laptop> we are still active
[01:09] <johnc4510-laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
[01:09] <johnc4510-laptop> agreed, meetings have been sparce of late
[01:10] <johnc4510-laptop> it looks like the next meeting is  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-04-01
[01:12] <maco> that is more than 2 months from now. its a pity that marketing side of the community is not properly managed.
[01:14] <johnc4510-laptop> here is the contact info of the person who last edited the page, you might email him with any questions at this point<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:14] <desertc> Hi Maco.  DPic was working on that Marketing wiki page.  Might be able to provide some insight.
[01:14] <johnc4510-laptop> hey desertc
[01:15] <desertc> I just invited DPic here.
[01:15] <johnc4510-laptop> kk
[01:15] <desertc> Heya, JC
[01:15] <DPic> hello
[01:16] <maco> Hi desertc
[01:16] <maco> hi DPic
[01:16] <desertc> DPic: maco was asking about the wiki
[01:16] <DPic> maco: hey, what's up?
[01:16] <johnc4510-laptop> and the reason why so long before next meeting
[01:16] <desertc> DPic: Since you brought it up twice this weekend, I thought you could address his questions.
[01:16] <DPic> of course
[01:16] <maco> desertc, Im generally interested in Marketing side of things and I can find literally nothing that would help me to understand how Marketing team works
[01:17] <desertc> I believe DPic was working to update the format of the wiki.  Maybe he can take your thoughts and include them with his changes.
[01:18] <desertc> (Not to put any more words in DPic's mouth...)  ;)
[01:18] <DPic> ha, no problem dessertc
[01:18] <DPic> maco: yes, so what kind of information would help you?
[01:18] <maco> I thing that the whole issue is that I can not find objectives defined for the Marketing team - the goals, achievements, anythinf...
[01:19] <DPic> the mission is the fix bug #1
[01:19] <DPic> we just work to bring ubuntu to more people
[01:20] <maco> well :) that's nice - but are there any particular strategies and implementations to tackle problem no. 1 ? :)
[01:20] <johnc4510-laptop> part of the strategy is the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
[01:20] <johnc4510-laptop> put out once a wk
[01:20] <maco> great!
[01:20] <DPic> maco: you can see our projects on the projects page in our wiki
[01:21] <DPic> you are also free to talk about any ideas you have or start a project of your own
[01:21] <maco> DPic, let me check the page once again so I am sure I did not miss anything.
[01:22] <desertc> The Weekly News Letter does seems to me the main focus of this group, other than providing a mailing list that accumulates unorganized ideas.
[01:23] <desertc> ... at least as of lately.
[01:23] <desertc> It is very quiet in the IRC channel, for instance.
[01:24] <johnc4510-laptop> agreed
[01:24] <DPic> dessertc, i'm hoping we can get organized and do more
[01:24] <maco> maybe it would be worthwhile to actually start aggregating those ideas and maybe compile a web site with them and start working on some proof of concepts and so forth
[01:24] <DPic> that's why i redid the wiki
[01:24] <DPic> maco: we do have an ideas page also on the wiki :)
[01:25] <desertc> I would love to be part of organized media campaigns.  I am already getting started with some independent communication projects.
[01:25] <maco> DPic, I think Wiki is not a way to go with marketing
[01:25] <Mike_Feravolo> hello
[01:26] <johnc4510-laptop> Mike_Feravolo: hey
[01:26] <DPic> maco: what do you mean? the wiki is just for the team
[01:26] <DPic> that doesn't mean we'll be marketing from the wiki
[01:26] <johnc4510-laptop> it spells out the focus of the team
[01:26] <Mike_Feravolo> i noticed that people are talking about marketing
[01:26] <maco> DPic, oh - never mind than - what about the actual people interested in Ubuntu - propagation is one of marketing objectives - or is that a part of some other team ?
[01:27] <DPic> maco: no that is our team, but i'm not sure what you mean by what about actual people...
[01:27] <DPic> actual people will be going to www.ubuntu.com not looking into the marketing team
[01:28] <Mike_Feravolo> I have a question; Who is the marketing team trying to target ?
[01:29] <maco> DPic, Im trying to get a grip of what actually Marketing Team does - it it is involve in actually WRITING the weekly NL it is more of editorial role than marketing from my perrespective
[01:29] <DPic> everyone
[01:29] <DPic> ^ Mike_Feravolo
[01:29] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[01:29] <maco> DPic...everyone....its defenetely not everyone
[01:29] <Mike_Feravolo> Okay, Who is "everyone"
[01:29] <DPic> we try to mrket ubuntu to whever we can
[01:30] <DPic> isn't that right?
[01:30] <DPic> the ubuntu weekly newletter is just one of our projects
[01:30] <maco> Actually - maybe it is everyone since marketing can also make people "aware" of things
[01:30] <DPic> yes
[01:30] <Mike_Feravolo> And how much money does the marketing team have to spend ?
[01:30] <Mike_Feravolo> 0 ?
[01:30] <DPic> yeah.
[01:31] <maco> DPic, there is this thing - focus group - focus goup should be defined
[01:31] <johnc4510-laptop> well, we are no different than say the loco teams
[01:31] <DPic> okay so our team should be a resource for anyone and everyone who want to spread ubuntu
[01:31] <DPic> i'm hoping the new resources and materials pages i've created on the wiki will be useful for those people
[01:32] <maco> DPic, are there any particular resources f.e. LOCO teams were asking for? f.e. slideshow templates, posters, artwork, propaganda, statistics... ?
[01:32] <Mike_Feravolo> So far the best thing that I have found on the marketing DYI site is the Freedom Highway Poster
[01:32] <maco> maybe the team should focus foremost to support LOCOs and direcly involved individuals within the community
[01:33] <DPic> maco: i'm hoping those resources will come soon. there is an ubuntu wiki page with some presentations on it
[01:33] <DPic> but it isn't ours
[01:34] <maco> DPic, yeah, I can see them.
[01:34] <DPic> and helping individuals and loco teams is included in out mission
[01:34] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: is there a chance we can move that april meeting up some, seems like it's a long way away. We should be working on things to boost the hardy release  ??
[01:34] <maco> Mike_Feravolo, I cannot even find that poster
[01:35] <Mike_Feravolo> I got an 18 meg copy somewhere, that prints well
[01:35] <johnc4510-laptop> if we wait till april, we'll be to far behind for hardy
[01:35] <DPic> johnc4510-laptop: i didn't make the date for that meeting. someone already had that set as the next meeting when i redid the wiki
[01:35] <maco> Mike_Feravolo, 72dpi shot is fine :)
[01:35] <Mike_Feravolo> I think you have to dig into the Do It Yourseld site and look for an 18 Meg PDF
[01:35] <maco> lol :)
[01:35] <maco> well thats not very flexible is it ? :)
[01:36] <DPic> does this team have a leader or a couple people who tend to be mostly in charge?
[01:36] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: kk, i think we should discuss that idea with whomever we need to, to try to get it changed maybe
[01:36] <maco> wasn't there some king of "Spread Ubuntu" project going on ?
[01:36] <DPic> maco: yes
[01:36] <DPic> you can see it on the projects page
[01:37] <DPic> i'm not sure if it's still being worked on
[01:37] <DPic> a lot of the projects have come to a standstill
[01:37] <maco> I think this should be dramatically changed.
[01:39] <Mike_Feravolo> I googled the poster and all the links are dead,
[01:39] <maco> I reckon to move the meeting to sooner date - I am volunteering to help with the management and design end of things.
[01:39] <Mike_Feravolo> A great example of the flaws in the Ubuntu Marketing Plan
[01:40] <DPic> should the meeting be this month or march?
[01:40] <maco> Mike_Feravolo, link?
[01:41] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: end of this month, or first of next month
[01:41] <Mike_Feravolo> jenda, from the marketing team was selling the posters in print about a year ago
[01:41] <maco> DPic, I reckon this month - give people 10-13 days notice.
[01:41] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: i could submit an email to the list and see what kind of response we get
[01:41] <johnc4510-laptop> ??
[01:41] <maco> johnc4510, ideed
[01:42] <DPic> i'm already working on an email :)
[01:42] <johnc4510-laptop> or we can talk to nixternal or beuno
[01:42] <johnc4510-laptop> kk
[01:43] <DPic> what days of the week are generally best?
[01:43] <DPic> i think it would be better if we planned on a date, sent an email, and made sure it's okay
[01:43] <maco> tuesday
[01:43] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: for me any day is ok, i'm flexible
[01:43] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[01:44] <DPic> maco: is tuesday the only day that works for you?
[01:44] <maco> 4th of march?
[01:44] <maco> DPic, no, Im rather flexible, but weekends are busy.
[01:44] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: in the email try to stress the point that we need to get to work on the hardy release campaign of some kind
[01:45] <DPic> alright
[01:45] <johnc4510-laptop> ie strategy for it
[01:48] <maco> desertc, the posters are gr8! :) very thematic - i like that kind of approach :)
[01:48] <Mike_Feravolo> It seems to me that there currently is no marketing plan, other then giving away CD's ?
[01:48] <desertc> ah!  great!  glad for positive feedback
[01:49] <Mike_Feravolo> I hope that I am wrong on this
[01:49] <desertc> I'm following this discussion without much to add, but let me know how I can help out.  You've got another pair of hands here.
[01:49] <DPic> how about we have a meeting next tuesday?
[01:49] <DPic> feb 26
[01:50] <Mike_Feravolo> what time are the meetings ?
[01:50] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: it's ok with me
[01:50] <maco> DPic, fine for me.
[01:50] <DPic> well 7pm ESt is best for me
[01:50] <maco> EST? UTC?
[01:50] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: you need to set it up in UTC time please
[01:51] <maco> 00:00 UTC is it ?
[01:52] <maco> wel... 24:00 :)
[01:52] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: calendar of meetings is clear for tuesday the 26th http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[01:53] <DPic> 7pm tuesday for me is 00:00 UTC wednesday
[01:53] <DPic> can we do that?
[01:53] <johnc4510-laptop> it's ok with me
[01:54] <maco> it will be 1:00 AM for me - but beat it! no prob!
[01:54] <johnc4510-laptop> will, it be ok with the team leaders?
[01:54] <maco> who are the team leaders ?
[01:54] <Mike_Feravolo> Does this mean that there are going to be regular meetings ?
[01:54] <johnc4510-laptop> i hope so
[01:54] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[01:54] <DPic> monthly, bi-monthly?
[01:55] <johnc4510-laptop> team leaders would be beuno and nixternal i think    not sure
[01:55] <Mike_Feravolo> I work in the Orlando Florida Area, and my business is Linux
[01:55] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: lets decide that at the meeting ??
[01:55] <maco> depending on how individually people want to be involved in - I suggest to have meeting every 10 days
[01:56] <DPic> almost weekly?
[01:56] <DPic> it might make more send to go by a weekly schedule
[01:56] <DPic> sense*
[01:57] <maco> I think that should be discussed after the team evaluates its goals
[01:57] <johnc4510-laptop> as i said that should probably be an item for the meeting
[01:58] <maco> will somebody set-up an agenda page for the meeting?
[01:58] <desertc> Some of the people who are usually active here are absent at present... popey and smirnov (sp?)
[01:58] <johnc4510-laptop> yes
[01:58] <johnc4510-laptop> popey is important
[01:58] <DPic> already done
[01:59] <Mike_Feravolo> Given the global nature of the team, floating the day of the week and time of day would allow more people to attend.
[01:59] <Mike_Feravolo> like on a 10 day schedule
[02:00] <Mike_Feravolo> something like 10th,20th,30th
[02:01] <DPic> Mike_Feravolo: interesting idea but the problem is that if we follow that there might be some days where most people simply aren't available
[02:02] <johnc4510-laptop> agreed
[02:02] <Mike_Feravolo> Just an idea,
[02:02] <johnc4510-laptop> np
[02:02] <maco> what about very quick meetings every week ?
[02:03] <maco> and one major meeting every month
[02:03] <johnc4510-laptop> actually, this channel is for discussions and idea exchanges between meeting
[02:03] <maco> 15min, 15min, 15min, MAJOR and repeating
[02:03] <desertc> johnc4510 Has marketing had a meeting lately?  I have not known of any.
[02:03] <johnc4510-laptop> me either
[02:04] <johnc4510-laptop> :(
[02:04] <DPic> maco: well not much can get done during a small meeting. it's just like the discussion that would happen otherwise
[02:04] <johnc4510-laptop> but we should make sure the teams leads know about this too
[02:04] <DPic> i'm a core member of the MA team and we have montly meeting and that's worked well
[02:04] <desertc> Any proposal for a meeting would be better than the absence of any.
[02:04] <maco> DPic, those 15 minute meetings shoulb be focused only for evaluation of what have been done
[02:04] <maco> ...and what havent
[02:05] <maco> DPic, can you please clarify "MA"
[02:05] <DPic> sorry, massachusetts
[02:06] <DPic> a state in the US
[02:06] <maco> DPic, cheers :)
[02:06] <desertc> Maco -- aren't you from Massachusetts?  :)
[02:06] <maco> desertc, far from it :)
[02:06] <desertc> oops!
[02:06] <Mike_Feravolo> Since, this team works on a zero dollar spend, something that would look good in a full page magizine as would get the message across
[02:07] <Mike_Feravolo> then people could print them and get there out there in their local marketplace
[02:07] <Mike_Feravolo> the freedom poster meets those requirements
[02:09] <maco> Mike_Feravolo, we however need to evaluate if the whole process in not counter productive.
[02:09] <Mike_Feravolo> Excuse me ?
[02:09] <maco> What would you write on the poster? desertc has great ideas for posters, however that message is hardly followed on the wiki pages.
[02:10] <Mike_Feravolo> Sorry, for being abstract I was just suggesting the format
[02:11] <maco> Mike_Feravolo, sure thing.
[02:11] <Mike_Feravolo> All I know is passing out CD's has not been effective, unless the objective is to give away coasters
[02:12] <desertc> (... maco ... not same as mako ... sigh)
[02:12] <DPic> haha
[02:12] <maco> I don't get it.
[02:12] <DPic> you aren't Mako
[02:12] <DPic> dessertc confused you for him
[02:13] <maco> Ah. I can see that :)
[02:13] <desertc> yep.  but please continue...  this is a great conversation
[02:13] <Mike_Feravolo> Printed material is more cost effective, the leaflets are also good.  Marketing should support LOCOs and other teams, not to directly execute the propaganda.
[02:14] <Mike_Feravolo> I am a programmer, not an artist, however as a business owner I have to sell like it or not
[02:14] <desertc> I like to say, "A CD-ROM works only when the person is convinced to put it in their computer and install it.  A poster works as soon as someone looks at it."
[02:15] <Mike_Feravolo> exactly
[02:16] <maco> Yes, but with poster you have to be VERY specific about the focus group you are attracting. Where do you put the poster? How do you attract that particular group with 4 words on the poster?
[02:16] <Mike_Feravolo> Also, the Software Freedom angle is a good sell, since people run away as soon as you say Linux
[02:17] <maco> Why not to tink about Ubuntu as fun thing to do? Hobby, passion - all of the things you are not able to experience in other OSes?
[02:17] <Mike_Feravolo> I go to a lot of local chamber of commerce and business networking events and get to talk one on one to people in business
[02:17] <desertc> It'll be great to have a selection of posters -- that way a LoCo can choose the one that suits the occasion.
[02:18] <Mike_Feravolo> Awesome, a central collection of posters for the LOCO's to draw from is a great idea
[02:18] <Mike_Feravolo> or anyone else that likes Ubuntu
[02:18] <maco> Well - as has been said before - Marketing Team has to FOREMOST define its focus group. Mike_Feravolo is talking business. I am talking individuals ...
[02:18] <desertc> But there are also news papers and other communication methods that can be considered and digested by this team.
[02:19] <maco> Articles? Interviews with developers?
[02:19] <DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials
[02:19] <Mike_Feravolo> I talking how to take on a mutli-billion dollar software monpoly with zero dollars
[02:19] <DPic> we should post stuff to there
[02:19] <DPic> can someone pload that poster?
[02:19] <desertc> Imagine if we had a generic press release about the Hardy release, and this team worked with all the LoCos to get that pushed into their local papers, all at one time.
[02:20] <DPic> dessertc, that would be great!
[02:20] <desertc> Just think about how effective that distributed work would be.
[02:20] <DPic> yeah!
[02:20] <Mike_Feravolo> Right now I want people to know that you can buy a computer without that tax stamp on the side
[02:20] <maco> desertc, I like the idea.
[02:21] <Mike_Feravolo> secound that
[02:21] <maco> create series of press releases from 10 words long one to full page one.
[02:21] <desertc> Each LoCo could re-tool the generic press release so it was specific for their own team, thus giving the paper a chance to do a "local" story.
[02:21] <Mike_Feravolo> make them easy to find, not like now
[02:21] <Mike_Feravolo> :-)
[02:21] <maco> Shall we say "Local" to be the theme for hardy?
[02:21] <desertc> Papers like giving copy space to local efforts.
[02:22] <maco> focusing on helping LOCOs to grow?
[02:22] <desertc> Yes, but in addition to writing the press release, I think it is equally important to push the content onto the LoCos to get the word out.
[02:22] <maco> LOCOs can than do all work for us if somebody will be interested :)
[02:23] <Mike_Feravolo> Can the group get the press releases for Hardy over the wires
[02:23] <maco> desertc, indeed - maybe it would be worth to create template which every loco will use to produce their own short press release and tham gather them together to create huge poster for the community ? :)
[02:23] <desertc> Yeap -- their mission is already to promote Ubuntu intheir communities.  They should, in theory, want to do this.
[02:24] <maco> and ask them to make the press release very local-specific
[02:24] <maco> include some local attachement
[02:24] <desertc> Anyway, I think I sidetracked the conversation.  I'll bring this up at the meeting we are planning.
[02:25] <DPic> maco: see our news and press page on the wiki
[02:25] <maco> a sec
[02:25] <DPic> actually https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PressReleaseTemplate
[02:26] <maco> :)
[02:26] <DPic> i made that from a guide from the sierra club
[02:27] <Mike_Feravolo> Do people know what "open source" means ?
[02:27] <maco> Do we know how active the LoCos are? Do they write their own press releases ?
[02:29] <maco> It would be fine to get in touch with every individual LoCo asking them about their propaganda strategies and if they work -  gather some know-how.
[02:30] <Mike_Feravolo> I know people that can get press releases over the wire, but it costs money.
[02:30] <DPic> most people don't know what open source or free software is, no
[02:30] <desertc> Even if we reach out to a dozen on this go-around, then we can get in contact with more next time.
[02:30] <DPic> most loco's don't write their own press releases
[02:30] <DPic> some do
[02:31] <DPic> can someone give me a link to the highway to freedome poster?
[02:31] <DPic> freedom*
[02:31] <Mike_Feravolo> Exactly, why "Open Source" is on the list of terms to avoid on the FSF site
[02:31] <maco> DPic, I haven't found it.
[02:31] <DPic> just found it http://gasteropod.deviantart.com/art/ubuntu-highway-43996915
[02:32] <Mike_Feravolo> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html
[02:32] <DPic> because open source isn't about freedom
[02:32] <DPic> it's merely about "open source" not about software freedom
[02:33] <Mike_Feravolo> beacuse open source is means nothing
[02:33] <Mike_Feravolo> Just one of those west coast terms
[02:35] <maco> Let me have some sleep. Will see you soon. I have just signed-up to the mailinglists so will stay in close touch.
[02:35] <maco> G'nite.
[02:36] <Mike_Feravolo> peace
[02:42] <DPic> just sent out the email
[02:46] <johnc4510-laptop> :)
[02:56] <DPic> can you look at the calendar i created linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings using the google calendar link to make sure the data is correct?
[02:57] <DPic> and that nothing is screwed up by the time zones?
[03:01] <boredandblogging> DPic: send an email to fridge-devel about the meeting
[03:02] <boredandblogging> so other teams don't schedule something at the same time
[03:02] <DPic> alright
[03:08] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: calendar shows 10pm mst on tuesday the 26th
[03:08] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: schedule on marketing page shows the 27th  wed
[03:08] <boredandblogging> under upcoming meetings it says April 1st
[03:08] <boredandblogging> on the wiki
[03:09] <johnc4510-laptop> actually, it says both  lol
[03:09] <boredandblogging> true
[03:10] <DPic> johnc4510-laptop: is 10pm MST the same as 00:00 UTC?
[03:12] <johnc4510-laptop> no, it's 5:00am UTC
[03:12] <DPic> alright i know the problem
[03:12] <johnc4510-laptop> http://www.hamuniverse.com/utctime.html
[03:12] <johnc4510-laptop> ^^ conversion table if you need it
[03:14] <DPic> is the calendar correct now
[03:14] <DPic> ?
[03:14] <johnc4510-laptop> looking
[03:15] <johnc4510-laptop> looks right here
[03:15] <johnc4510-laptop> shows 5pm mst and 00:00 UTC
[03:16] <johnc4510-laptop> be sure to get this on the fridge as boredandblogging said, we'll get it in the UWN next sunday if it is
[03:18] <DPic> i sent an email but it bounced
[03:18] <johnc4510-laptop> hmmm
[03:19] <johnc4510-laptop> i've actually never send anything to that list
[03:19] <johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: why would it bounce an email to the fridge list?
[03:20] <boredandblogging> it shouldn't bounce
[03:20] <boredandblogging> fridge gets plenty of email from non-subscribed members
[03:20] <boredandblogging> specifically to put events on the calendar
[03:21] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: are you a member of that list?
[03:21] <johnc4510-laptop> subscribed to it?
[03:23] <DPic> it said no subscription necessary but it's pretty obvious that isn't true
[03:23] <boredandblogging> it is true
[03:23] <boredandblogging> let me put it on the fridge calendar
[03:23] <johnc4510-laptop> kk
[03:24] <DPic> the email i got said that i had to be subsribed :
[03:24] <DPic> :/ *
[03:24] <johnc4510-laptop> lol
[03:24] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: nick will take care of it :)
[03:25] <DPic> okay cool
[03:25] <boredandblogging> assume we are going to do the meeting in here?
[03:26] <DPic> yeah
[03:29] <boredandblogging> done
[03:29] <johnc4510-laptop> ty nick
[03:29] <boredandblogging> np
[03:34] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: i changed the wiki page to show the correct meeting date and time with a link to a conversion table for other time zones
[03:34] <DPic> you did? i thought i'd already updated the wiki to the correct date like ten minutes ago..
[03:34] <DPic> when you first mentioned it
[03:34] <DPic> or idk if it was you
[03:35] <DPic> where did you fix it?
[03:35] <johnc4510-laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
[03:35] <johnc4510-laptop> there's where i corrected it
[03:36] <johnc4510-laptop> under upcoming meetings
[03:36] <DPic> yeah, i'd already fixed it. you just deleted the link to the meeting page
[03:37] <DPic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings?action=diff&rev2=82&rev1=81
[03:37] <johnc4510-laptop> oh, well the time link was wrong
[03:37] <johnc4510-laptop> looking
[03:38] <DPic> no problem, i added the link back. thanks for catching that error in the link to the conversion table
[03:38] <johnc4510-laptop> ok, put the link back in then but correct the day to the 26th
[03:39] <johnc4510-laptop> instead of the 27th  :)
[03:39] <johnc4510-laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings?action=diff&rev2=82&rev1=81
[03:40] <DPic> 26th?
[03:40] <DPic> didn't we agree on wednesday?
[03:40] <DPic> the 27th?
[03:41] <johnc4510-laptop> maybe i'm wrong   looking back up the page to see
[03:42] <DPic> i found it-- look around 2 hours ago
[03:42] <johnc4510-laptop> ok, it's 00:00 UTC which is wed. but tues here
[03:42] <johnc4510-laptop> LOL
[03:43] <DPic> haha yeah
[03:45] <johnc4510-laptop> :)   i always get somewhat confused by UTC  hee hee
[03:48] <johnc4510-laptop> it's on the fridge calendar now
[03:50] <DPic> cool
[04:01] <DPic> i think we need to clean up our projects
[04:01] <DPic> some of them never happened and never will
[04:04] <boredandblogging> DPic: there is content at http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/ that could probably be reused for hardy
[04:04] <boredandblogging> or anything under http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/
[04:04] <johnc4510-laptop> i'm new enough to the team not to know about older projects, i work on the UWN the most
[04:07] <johnc4510-laptop> DPic: both of those nick pointed to look ok to reuse for now
[04:08] <johnc4510-laptop> all kinds of posters and artwork
[04:09] <johnc4510-laptop> watching alien vs predator, people are getting abused
[10:50] <jenda> Mike_Feravolo: Indeed... unfortunately, I no longer have time for that.
[10:50] <jenda> juliux: ping
[10:51] <juliux> jenda, pong
[10:51] <jenda> juliux: so, I can get your stickers made.
[10:51] <juliux> cool
[10:51] <jenda> 5000 for you and 2000 for a US loco
[10:52] <jenda> I'm thinking it's the least I can do, since I've been neglecting my Ubuntu work for a long time now :D
[10:52] <jenda> What ratios (U:K:X:E) would you like?
[10:53] <jenda> juliux: and it should cost you about €320
[10:53] <jenda> With shipping, max €330
[10:54] <juliux> ok
[10:54]  * MenZa ships jenda
[10:54] <MenZa> hey, juliux
[10:55] <jenda> heya, Menny-Z :)
[10:55] <MenZa> :D
[10:55] <MenZa> Nice to see you.
[10:55] <jenda> likewise :)
[10:55] <MenZa> :D
[10:55] <MenZa> How's you?
[10:57] <jenda> Busy ;(
[10:57] <jenda> Need to hand in a translation on thursday...
[10:57] <jenda> and have a ton more to do
[10:57] <jenda> no way I can make it :D
[10:57] <jenda> And I'm off to India early Friday morning.
[10:58] <jenda> so... off to work :)
[10:58] <jenda> juliux: and I need those numbers before I leave, if you want them made.
[10:59] <juliux> jenda, we want 3000 ubuntu, 1000 kubuntu, 750 edubuntu, 250 xubuntu
[10:59] <juliux> jenda, for 330€ inkl. shiping to de
[11:00] <jenda> that was quick :)
[11:00] <jenda> thanks
[11:00] <jenda> yep
[11:00] <jenda> does the price sound fair? should be roughly the same as last time.
[11:00] <juliux> price is ok
[11:00] <juliux> no discussion from my side
[11:00] <jenda> cool
[11:02] <juliux> 5000stickers for 330€ incl. shiping is a fair deal
[11:02] <jenda> juliux: I'll order them now, and i'll have them shipped either to me when I get back from India (Mar 10) and will send them to you right afterwards, or, hopefully, I'll convince the guy to ship them to you directly, while I'm away if he makes them on time, or after.
[11:02] <juliux> jenda, cool
[11:02] <juliux> jenda, what are you doing in india again?
[11:02] <jenda> not much, really :D
[11:02] <jenda> Just looking around.
[11:02] <jenda> Having a beer or two
[11:02] <jenda> or twenty
[11:03] <jenda> :D
[11:03] <juliux> lol
[11:03] <juliux> btw we will have 800 coffee mugs at the end of the week
[11:03] <jenda> wow
[11:03] <jenda> how much for a few shipped here? :)
[11:03] <juliux> i don't know yet
[11:03] <jenda> bah, nevermind, I'll just hope you still have a few when I pass through in the summer :D
[11:04] <juliux> hehe
[11:04] <juliux> but i am not longer living in dresden;)
[11:04] <jenda> Where are you at these days anyway?
[11:04] <jenda> Shouldn't matter, my schedule will be flexible :D
[11:04] <juliux> hannover
[11:04] <juliux> the city where cebit is;)
[11:04] <jenda> The problem will be keeping it secret that the real reason for the detour are UBuntu mugs... :)
[11:04] <jenda> (from the gf :))
[11:05] <juliux> hehe
[11:05] <jenda> Is there anything interesting around there which would be "worth" the detour? :D
[11:05] <juliux> take your gf to an ubuntu events and everything is fine
[11:05] <jenda> haha
[11:05] <jenda> no chance ;)
[11:05] <jenda> I want to stay with her, you know :)
[11:06] <juliux> i take my gf to last ubucon
[11:06] <juliux> and she enjoins it
[11:07] <juliux> but now she want to come to the next events with me :(
[15:57] <desertc> There was this nice picture from UDS Boston that I am trying to find, of a large table of developers with Mark Shuttleworth addressing them.  Everyone is using laptops.
[15:57] <desertc> I saw it on the 'net a while ago.  I've been searching for it for the better part of an hour.  Any idea where it is?
[18:32] <leoquant> how to make a ubuntu paypal account[18:32] <beuno> leoquant, I don't understand
[18:34] <leoquant> ok i want to make a donation.
[18:36] <beuno> leoquant, right. You need a paypal account or a credit card
[18:37] <leoquant> yes ok where???
[18:39] <leoquant> ubuntu is very organized, is this is very difficult question?
[18:40] <beuno> leoquant, looking for the link, seems it's been hidden
[18:41] <beuno> leoquant, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations
[18:41] <leoquant> i have got an emailadress.......ok thx beuno
[18:42] <beuno> leoquant, np
[18:45] <desertc_> hehe - trying to dig up some more poster ideas and unearthed these... I especially thought the third was funny.
[18:45] <desertc_> http://cwkhang.blogspot.com/2006/05/propaganda-posters-of-windows-vs-os-x.html
[18:47] <desertc_> nice, there's more!  :)
[18:47] <desertc_> http://www.woot.com/Blog/BlogEntry.aspx?BlogEntryId=1098
[18:48] <desertc_> sorry, big fan of derivative works
[18:50] <beuno> desertc_, lol
[19:01] <juliux> beuno, do you know who gets that donations?
[19:02] <beuno> juliux, canonical, of course
[19:02] <juliux> i think you can't make a donation to a company
[19:03] <beuno> juliux, maybe it goes to the foundation, I don't know
[19:03] <beuno> maybe an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:10] <donsmouse> hello?
[19:13] <desertc_> he's left anyhow
[19:14] <Mike_Feravolo> jenda: too bad the posters where cool, i see you read the log from last night
[19:15] <desertc_> what posters?
[19:15] <Mike_Feravolo> desertc_
[19:16] <Mike_Feravolo> They were the Highway to Freedom Poster, I liked them because they look kind of like my OnA1A lgo
[19:16] <desertc_> yeap -- that's a pretty good one
[19:16] <Mike_Feravolo> I had that logo made back in 1997 when I registered the domain OnA1A,com
[19:17] <Mike_Feravolo> Which is parked right now
[19:18] <desertc_> Working on some new posters right now, actually
[19:20] <Mike_Feravolo> good, I wish I could think up something cool not just for ubuntu, but for GNU/Linux and free software in general
[19:20] <desertc_> http://garbledzombie.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/your-grandma-can-do-it/
[19:21] <desertc_> http://gnuart.onshore.com/uncle_gnu_art.html
[19:22] <Mike_Feravolo> Look's like GNU/Linux in general
[19:23] <Mike_Feravolo> The caption could read something to the effect of:
[19:25] <Mike_Feravolo> So freindly even gramma loves him or something along the those lines taking the fear away from the word linux
[19:26] <Mike_Feravolo> I have no clue of the exact wording, just throwing in my two cents for what it's worth
[19:26] <desertc_> Yeah, sounds good.
[19:27] <Mike_Feravolo> Uncle GNU is a little scary, sometimes I think Stallman is bit out there; But that's okay old hippie programers are cool
[19:29] <Mike_Feravolo> EMACS is still a good application, I first used it on a PDP-10/20 running TOPS
[19:30] <Mike_Feravolo> Later
[19:41] <desertc_> Mike_Feravolo: still around?
[20:45] <desertc_> Well, I made a bunch more posters this morning.  *cheesy grin*
[21:04] <juliux> desertc_, which size you will make?