[00:16] <kanliot> apport could be more stable.  it's eating up my ram
[22:44] <jram0421> hey im part of bug squad how can i mark a bug as triaged
[22:45] <TheLordOfTime> jram0421:  "triaged" can be set by bugcontrol
[22:45] <TheLordOfTime> jram0421:  you ask a member of bug control to set it to triaged and you provide your reasons
[22:45] <jram0421> oh
[22:45] <TheLordOfTime> as well as reasoning for a given importance if you want
[22:45] <jram0421> thanks
[22:45]  * TheLordOfTime is on bugcontrol and can assist, maybe.
[22:45] <TheLordOfTime> and of course he disappears :p


[03:21] <chilts> did someone say hometime yet?
[03:51] <snail> hoemtime
[03:51] <snail> hometime even
[03:53] <ojwb> hometime yet
[04:45] <ajmitch> yay for fridays
[04:58] <ibeardslee> yay for boc
[22:38] <chilts_> morning
[22:45] <ajmitch> far too early in the day for that
[23:11] <chilts_> oopse, many apologies
[23:11] <chilts_> though I was up at 6:30 for some bizarre reason


[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[16:15] <xdatap> Ciao everybody
[16:16] <xdatap> czajkowski, ping
[16:19] <czajkowski> xdatap: pong
[16:19] <xdatap> :)
[16:20] <xdatap> czajkowski, I wrote the article for ngo blog
[16:20] <czajkowski> oh great
[16:20] <czajkowski> want to mail it to me?
[16:20] <xdatap> czajkowski, but before you need to correct it
[16:20] <czajkowski> ok
[16:20] <czajkowski> *hugs* thanks for this
[16:20] <xdatap> czajkowski, email?
[16:20] <czajkowski> yup
[16:21] <czajkowski><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:24] <xdatap> czajkowski, for anything you will found me in skype
[16:24] <xdatap> i can't stay more on irc, too distracting ;)
[16:26] <xdatap> bye bye


[06:05] <bkerensa> slangasek: is there a process by which proposals to drop packages can be submitted?
[06:07] <slangasek> bkerensa: generally, file a bug against the package with rationale and subscribe ubuntu-archive to it


[00:26] <cjwatson> Meh, every time I'm working this late I get tempted to kill my nightly backups so that I can have some I/O.
[00:38] <smoser> anyone else able to help with that?
[00:39] <smoser> the access denied issue?
[00:45] <smoser> well, i'm out for the night.
[00:45] <smoser> if anyone else has their api keys and wants to follow bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smoser/+junk/jenkins2isotracker/ to post results for ec2, they could do that.
[00:45] <smoser> the values you need are:
[00:46] <smoser> serial=20120925; release=quantal; mstone='Quantal Beta 2'; url='https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/All%20Quantal/job/quantal-server-ec2/18/'
[01:00] <highvoltage> skaet: should beta2 tech overview include the notes from beta1?
[01:10] <highvoltage> stgraber: I added that 2 items we discussed earlier and removed the obvious ones from the packages list (from the conflicts list in edubuntu-live), there's not really a lot but the list should probably be even shorter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Beta2#Edubuntu
[02:46] <ScottK> highvoltage: You want the tech overview to be readable for someone upgrading from Precise, so it should cover everything from that angle.
[02:48] <stgraber> smoser: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/api ?
[02:49] <stgraber> smoser: /user is blocked as it's not relevant when using SSO (that page would usually let you change your password and other details that we get from SSO)
[02:49] <stgraber> I have a few bug reports to try and make that part a bit better (ideally, without having to patch Drupal's code...)
[05:51] <skaet> Daviey, we're still missing some of the Ubuntu Server test results on the iso tracker,  can you look into getting them run and the results added to the tracker?
[07:29] <Daviey> skaet: yep!
[07:41] <slangasek> seb128: ^^ something for you
[07:43] <slangasek> seb128: testing it should be as simple as building and installing the package and logging back in
[09:27] <knome> skaet, i've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Beta2 - sorry for being late for that.
[09:28] <knome> skaet, it also looks like there's problems with reporting our post-installation/desktop tests to the tracker, and we don't have any tests for those because of that; but, i'm signing off both images
[10:20] <cjwatson> ogra_: any luck with testing flash-kernel?
[10:24] <ogra_> running since a while
[10:24] <ogra_> even with local mirror it takes ages ...
[10:25] <ogra_> (i had hoped paul had done it, butu doesnt seem like)
[11:25] <ogra_> cjwatson, debian-installer-utils uploaded to proposed for bug 1028905
[11:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1028905 in debian-installer-utils "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
[11:26] <ogra_> cjwatson, and my netinstall just asks me about UTC clock settings (so it passed flash-kernel-installer)
[11:27] <ogra_> yup and rebooted just fine
[11:29] <cjwatson> OK, great.  I'll copy flash-kernel now then.
[11:29] <cjwatson> Not sure there's much point using -proposed for debian-installer-utils, since it doesn't have arch skew problems and it needs a d-i rebuild anyway.
[11:30] <cjwatson> But I can review it there anyway ...
[11:30]  * smartboyhw hopes that scott-work will show up today to say that Ubuntu Studio beta 2 is ready:P
[11:31] <knome> smartboyhw, since you've been monitoring how it comes up and scott not, how do you think he'd know better than you?
[11:32] <ogra_> cjwatson, well, i thought i'd rather drive safe and take proposed before anyone shouts that i broke a policy or so :)
[11:32]  * smartboyhw thinks that he does NOT have sign-off rights:P
[11:32] <ogra_> we are still frozen after all :)
[11:33] <knome> smartboyhw, if scott doesn't turn up, then you probably have to make the decision :P
[11:34] <smartboyhw> knome: Ooh:P
[11:34] <cjwatson> ogra_: Oh, I spotted a mistake
[11:34] <cjwatson> ogra_: You need a $ at the end of that regexp
[11:35] <cjwatson> In practice I don't see any partition types we care about that would be mishandled due to that, but I'd rather be safe
[11:35] <ogra_> ok
[11:35] <cjwatson> So I'll reject that for now, please fix and reupload :)
[11:36] <cjwatson> Looks fine otherwise
[11:36] <ogra_> should i force overwrite the debcommit or just add the change on top in the branch ?
[11:36] <cjwatson> Either; just make sure the tag is accurate
[11:36] <ogra_> k
[11:39] <ogra_> cjwatson, bah, there isnt a tag for your last upload it seems
[11:39] <cjwatson> Huh, that's odd
[11:39] <cjwatson> Is now
[11:39] <ogra_> thanks
[11:45] <ogra_> hmm, i cant do a push --overwrite it seems
[11:46] <cjwatson> unbind first
[11:46] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/Devel/branches/debian-installer-utils$ bzr unbind
[11:46] <ogra_> bzr: ERROR: Local branch is not bound
[11:46] <ogra_> *sniff*
[11:47]  * ogra_ wonders if thats another fallout of two factor auth ... i have nothing but probs with it
[11:48] <ogra_> though i can push normally ... (complains about diverged branches indeed) just not with --overwrite
[11:48] <ogra_> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
[11:48]  * ogra_ scratches head
[11:48] <ogra_> oh, wait
[11:49] <ogra_> hmm, no
[11:53] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/Devel/branches/debian-installer-utils$ bzr push lp:~ogra/ubuntu/quantal/debian-installer-utils/ubuntu
[11:53] <cjwatson> you could try uncommitting from the remote branch instead
[11:53] <ogra_> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
[11:53] <ogra_> ConnectionReset reading response for 'BzrDir.open_2.1', retrying
[11:53] <ogra_> if i only could
[11:53] <ogra_> i cant even push to my own account now it seems
[11:53] <cjwatson> try killing off any stray bzr and ssh processes
[11:54] <smartboyhw> skaet: Signoff of Beta 2 starting in er like 7 minutes?
[11:54] <ogra_> none there
[11:54] <knome> smartboyhw, ending.
[11:54] <smartboyhw> Ooh
[11:55] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/Devel/branches/debian-installer-utils$ bzr uncommit lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/debian-installer-utils/ubuntu/
[11:55] <ogra_> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
[11:55] <ogra_> uncommitting remotely has the same issue
[11:56] <ogra_> i have a pending reboot from yesterdays upgrade, lets see if rebooting helps probably
[11:56] <cjwatson> You'll have to ask #launchpad (public) or #launchpad-ops (internal)
[11:57]  * smartboyhw finds out that #launchpad-ops has no one there
[11:57] <cjwatson> internal
[11:57] <cjwatson> ogra_: Somebody else is reporting a similar problem on -ops, so it may not be just you
[11:58] <cjwatson> ogra_: Try again no
[11:58] <cjwatson> *now
[12:02] <ogra_> cjwatson, heh, ok, at least i did my reboot for the new kernel now :)
[12:04] <ogra_> yippie, all good :)
[12:06] <ogra_> and re-uploaded
[12:16] <smoser> stgraber, sorry for being a dolt. i had clicked on api too. i just saw the "Intrdocution" and assumed it was just doc.
[13:40] <skaet> Daviey,  plars - any ETA on when those missing server tests will be complete?
[13:41] <plars> skaet: hggdh ran what he could of the maas tests yesterday, but I don't think he has everything he needs to run all of them. My understanding is that someone from server team normally does this? Same for iscsi
[13:42] <skaet> Riddell,  the Kubuntu images for powerpc and amd64+mac don't have results -  are they likely to get some in next little bit, or remove them from list for beta 2?
[13:43] <skaet> Daviey, ^  ??
[13:43] <jibel> skaet, plars https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/QuantalBeta2TestReport
[13:44] <Riddell> skaet: I'm happy enough for them to be removed
[13:44] <skaet> Riddell, ok,  doing.
[13:44] <skaet> thanks jibel
[13:51] <skaet> vanhoof, infinity, plars - the netboot images look like they still need some testing -  what's the outlook on them?
[13:53] <skaet> knome,  thanks for the update.  If there are post install issues,  please mentiong them in the TechnicalOverview/Beta2.   Marking your images ready now too.
[13:53] <ogra_> skaet, a fix for arm netboot is in the archive, but would require a d-i rebuild, not sure what colin plans here
[13:53] <skaet> cjwatson,   ^  release note,  and make available shortly after?
[13:54]  * ogra_ wouldnt mind to skip them given the fix will be inthe next build anyway
[13:54] <cjwatson> No, it does not require a d-i rebuild
[13:54] <cjwatson> flash-kernel is not in the initrd
[13:54] <cjwatson> It should be available for netboot installations now
[13:54] <ogra_> ugh, soryy, i mixed up the two fixes :)
[13:54] <cjwatson> Thus I don't see a need to release note
[13:55] <ogra_> yeah
[13:55] <ogra_> sorry, sorry
[13:55] <skaet> ok.   thanks cjwatson, ogra_
[13:55] <popey> skaet, i have a new UIFe for you :S https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping/+bug/1056901
[13:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056901 in unity-lens-shopping "[UIFe] Display category emblems on results" [High,In progress]
[13:56] <popey> (you need to look at the far right end of the orange price strip to see the change (which eluded me initially))
[13:59] <skaet> Laney,  can you review the new incoming from popey?   my bandwidth right now is focusing on getting beta 2 ready and figuring out what we'll ship or not.
[14:00] <popey> thanks skaet, sorry to lay more on you..
[14:01]  * skaet keeps up her pinging  :P
[14:02]  * smartboyhw is seriously wondering why scott-work hasn't said a word since he came:P
[14:02] <skaet> Riddell,  one of the missing netboot tests, is installing Kubuntu - has anyone tried that yet?
[14:03] <ogra_> smartboyhw, if someones client conncts that doesnt necessary mean there is a person attached to it ;)
[14:03] <smartboyhw> ;)
[14:03] <ogra_> *necessarily
[14:04] <Riddell> skaet: fooey didn't notice that, I can give it a go
[14:04] <skaet> smartboyhw,  scott-work - are there more results about to be posted for ubuntu-studio?
[14:04] <skaet> thanks Riddell
[14:04] <smartboyhw> skaet, don't think so......
[14:04] <smartboyhw> We don't have that much testers:P
[14:05] <skaet> smartboyhw,  then probably we won't ship this time around.   Manditory tests should be completed.
[14:05] <smartboyhw> skaet, that is real difficult......
[14:05] <smartboyhw> Then we won't have any builds to ship, we just don't have enough testers to complete ALL of them
[14:07] <plars> skaet: for netboot, you are referring to the kubuntu and xubuntu netboot tests?
[14:07] <skaet> plars,  yes,  Riddell says he'll handle kubuntu,  and if that's ok,  then we'll assume xubuntu likely is.
[14:07] <smartboyhw> skaet, I will just go and run the tests now
[14:08] <skaet> smartboyhw,  ok.    I'll hold off on the decision to ship/not from my perspective as long as can.
[14:09] <skaet> but we won't be holding up the release for it.
[14:09] <smartboyhw> skaet, OK
[14:14] <skaet> balloons,  can you fix http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/238/builds/24227/testcases for quantal?  upgrading from lucid doesn't make sense as a test for quantal.   (Daviey,  sound out if you disagree)
[14:15] <Laney> popey: is it entirely necessary?
[14:15] <Laney> the tweaks don't seen to be stopping.
[14:16] <balloons> skaet, ohh.. I thought we fixed that
[14:16] <balloons> ohh.. server
[14:16] <popey> Laney, It certainly improves the user experience. I'd imagine people are going to appreciate pre-filtering amazon results they may click on by these visual cues.
[14:16] <skaet> yup, server
[14:17] <balloons> give me a few
[14:17] <Laney> I should hope that you think all changes improve the user experience :-)
[14:18] <smartboyhw> skaet, can you give me an approximate time for us to complete the testcases before you call it off?
[14:19] <Laney> jbicha: tell me what you think about the prospect of another shopping lens uife ;-)
[14:19] <jbicha> Laney: what do they want this time?
[14:19] <Laney> to add 'emblems' to the amazon results
[14:19] <Laney> which indicate the category it came from
[14:20] <skaet> smartboyhw,  you've got at least an hour,   was expecting the results in by 1200 UTC so we wouldn't be doing this dance.  Beyond that variable.
[14:20] <smartboyhw> skaet, thanks
[14:21] <stgraber> skaet: Edubuntu should be all good, we have ISO and upgrade test results, tech overview was done by highvoltage and the bug listed in the release notes is still relevant. We won't have a blog post for beta2, so just link to http://www.edubuntu.org as usual.
[14:21] <Daviey> skaet: no eta yet
[14:21] <jbicha> Laney: well we don't have screenshots of the shopping lenses, but it'd be nice if the UI stopped changing for the ubuntu-manual guys & such
[14:24] <Laney> Yes. And it would be nice if the exceptions stopped coming and sucking up the release, doc and translation team's time
[14:24] <Laney> jbicha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping/+bug/1056901
[14:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056901 in unity-lens-shopping "[UIFe] Display category emblems on results" [High,In progress]
[14:25]  * Laney wonders how far the word 'exception' can be stretched
[14:25] <skaet> Daviey,  ack.    you're on critical path for release timing now.
[14:25]  * smartboyhw too
[14:26] <stgraber> Laney: for unity-lens-shopping it's surely not an exception ;) every single upload of that source were past FF/UIF...
[14:27] <ScottK> Right.  That's the problem.  For certain teams they operate (for whatever reasons - not always in there control) as if exception was normal.
[14:27] <ScottK> Laney: You can always say no and see if sabdfl really wants it.
[14:27] <Laney> there's this one too https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping/+bug/1055684
[14:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055684 in unity-lens-shopping "[FFE] Use music lens details page for music store results" [High,In progress]
[14:27] <Daviey> skaet: woot!
[14:28] <jbicha> I bet we're going to get more of these exceptions next week too
[14:28] <skaet> thanks stgraber, highvoltage - appreciate Edubuntu being ready to go by 1200 UTC.
[14:29] <Laney> skaet: I think we should start turning these requests down
[14:29] <xnox> skaet: Daviey is all dressed up for beta2 =) or is it the London OpenStack meeting.... not sure now
[14:29]  * xnox live from the office
[14:29] <ScottK> skaet: I think it's time to start saying no on non-essential U/I changes (I think the online search privacy change and the https change are essential - none of the rest are).
[14:30] <highvoltage> skaet: :)
[14:31] <smartboyhw> Studio amd64 ready to go, download i386 ISO ETA 4-8 minutes
[14:31] <stgraber> I'd argue that bug 1055684 should be fixed as it definitely looks like a bug to the user (http://cloudfront.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/unity-shopping-preview.jpg)
[14:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055684 in unity-lens-shopping "[FFE] Use music lens details page for music store results" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055684
[14:31] <stgraber> however I agree that the rest of the visual tweaks can certainly wait till R
[14:32] <highvoltage> why can't you just make people who land late features take responsibility for them? like, if you want to introduce a UI change 2 weeks after UI freeze you should be the one taking screensots of it in 63 (or how many it is these days) languages
[14:32] <highvoltage> (I guess that's maybe somewhat harsh)
[14:32] <skaet> Laney, ScottK - please add your comments to the bugs in question,  and I'll do my homework enough for an opinion as soon as we get this Beta2 out the door.   I'm agreeing its gotten way too late for tweaks, but don't want to comment further until I actually can focus and read them.
[14:33] <ScottK> Sure.
[14:33] <Laney> stgraber: feel free to take it on (in fact, please do)
[14:33] <tumbleweed> stgraber: or just consider it to be still too buggy for release, and remove it
[14:33] <popey> thanks for the consideration
[14:34] <jbicha> tumbleweed: :)
[14:34] <tumbleweed> no really, I don't know why we aren't considering that as an option. It's a totally real and useful one
[14:34] <Laney> no it's not a real one
[14:35] <Laney> it's out of the release team's hands, so to speak
[14:35] <stgraber> tumbleweed: I'd be happy with that option if it wasn't for the whole getting sabdfl'ed and ending up with more changes than we're talking about at the moment...
[14:36] <stgraber> considering the changes independently we can at least hope to postpone some of them...
[14:37] <tumbleweed> yeah, it sounds like it's mostly there (And I don't recall seeing explicit sabdfling, but assumed it was behind the scenes somewhere)
[14:37] <jbicha> Laney: I believe the Release Team does have that authority
[14:37] <ScottK> We certainly do.
[14:38] <Laney> it's already a sabdfled feature
[14:38] <ScottK> tumbleweed: sabfling only counts if it's explicit and on the record.
[14:38] <ogra_> so why do you complain
[14:38] <ogra_> nothing to discuss if it was sabdlfied
[14:39]  * smartboyhw is now rushing to get the i386 studio testing completed.......
[14:39] <ScottK> I've seen Mark rip someone's head off for trying "Mark told me it had to go in" on the release team.
[14:39] <highvoltage> ScottK: right, that was passed by the CC a while ago, but I haven't actually seen any bugs or docs for any sabdflifications
[14:39] <ogra_> well, but the sabdfl override is a real thing that was defined in ubuntu from day one, if it is used it should simply be noted as that
[14:40] <ScottK> ogra_: Yes, but he has to actually do it explicitly.
[14:40] <ogra_> and everyone (including sabdfl) should just move on and accept the policy
[14:40] <ogra_> else it is pointless to have it
[14:40] <phillw> skaet: lubuntu won't release beta2 ppc, too many gremlins. Others are okay to throw out in the wild :)
[14:40] <Laney> regardless of that, all of these later requests are certainly within our jurisdiction
[14:40] <ScottK> Certainly.  I have my opinion about it, but I don't argue it's the policy and he has the authority.
[14:40] <ScottK> Laney: Precisely.
[14:41] <skaet> thanks phillw,   was wondering about those ppc images.
[14:41] <ScottK> BTW, I put NACK comments on the two bugs.
[14:41] <Laney> thanks
[14:41] <ogra_> phillw, oh, btw, do you plan to have a lubuntu slideshow ?
[14:41] <ScottK> I didn't mark the wontfix (although I could have) because skaet said she wanted to look at them later.
[14:41] <ogra_> looks a bit odd with all the ubuntu advertising
[14:41] <jbicha> the sabdfl override isn't really documented in the usual places, like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess is it?
[14:41] <phillw> we#re hoping for a kernel fix which re: bug 1043518
[14:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1043518 in linux "live cd is unusable due to video degradation with the splash boot option enabled" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043518
[14:41] <scott-work> skaet: how soon do the remaining tests for studio need to be done? btw, i saw your email earlier but work is busy, busy these days
[14:42] <ogra_> (especially since none of the apps is installed)
[14:42] <smartboyhw> scott-work, I am doing the i386 tests, at most 20 minutes to be completed
[14:42]  * scott-work picked up more responsibilitys (but no extra pay) when my boss was removed
[14:42] <smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
[14:42] <ogra_> jbicha, no, its somewheer documented wheer the term is also exoplained
[14:42] <tumbleweed> jbicha: a sabdfl override is usually a comment from him on the FFe bug, acking it (in my experience)
[14:42] <skaet> scott-work,  we're waiting on Daviey now at this point,  so if you can get them done before then,  you should be good.   smartboyhw is working on them.
[14:42] <phillw> ogra_: afaik, one is being done. I can go poke the ML as I'm not sure who is doing it.
[14:42] <ogra_> ah, cool
[14:43] <ogra_> phillw, apart from that, great work, lubuntu gave me a nice new home for the ac100 :)
[14:43] <highvoltage> ogra_: sabdfl and the CC did agree that all sabdfl decisions has to be logged somewhere to avoid people randomly claiming that something was an sabdfl request (and other problems)
[14:43] <ogra_> highvoltage, ah, so it has been handled
[14:43] <cjwatson> phillw: You understand that that kernel fix only affects nvidia systems, right?
[14:43] <scott-work> thank you smartboyhw and skaet
[14:44] <cjwatson> Just in case you'd related it to the Radeon bug cluster somehow.
[14:46] <skaet> scott-work,  can you take a pass at TechnicalOverview/Beta2 page and make sure any new features/key fixes for Ubuntu Studio have been added.
[14:46] <skaet> ?
[14:47] <scott-work> i will do that in about an hour, skaet
[14:49] <skaet> thanks scott-work
[14:50] <ScottK> jbicha: Mark can sabdfl anything in the project.  It's not just about freeze exceptions.
[14:51] <ScottK> stgraber: Re 1055684 - It looks like we collided.  I get your point, but I think we need to draw a line in the sand on non-critical U/I tweaks.
[14:51] <phillw> cjwatson: yes, for the liveCD only nvidea is affected, so there would be no need to mess with nomodeset etc.
[14:52] <smartboyhw> skaet scott-work testing finished results passed marked in ISO Tracker ALL READY
[14:52] <skaet> thanks smartboyhw
[14:52] <smartboyhw> NP skaet
[14:53] <cjwatson> phillw: Right, except many of the powerpc bugs were about radeon.  Just want to make sure there's no false hope here.
[14:55] <skaet> utlemming,  there are 3 cloud images with no results.   Is there an ETA for those?
[14:55] <phillw> cjwatson: that is possibly another kernel issue, or maybe fixable by x-org. Oncee the B2's are out of the way I'll go see what the consensus is between the two teams :)
[14:55] <smartboyhw> thanks skaet for marking it ready:P
[14:56] <cjwatson> phillw: *nod*
[15:05] <skaet> cjwatson,  thanks for the tweaks to the TechnicalOverview earlier.    Are there any more that need to be added from the foundation team perspective?
[15:06] <cjwatson> I didn't have anything at this point
[15:06] <skaet> arosales, smoser - do you have any info on those 3 cloud images without test results - should they ship or not?
[15:07] <smoser> utlemming, ^
[15:07] <skaet> ok thanks cjwatson.
[15:07] <smoser> he's getting them i think
[15:07] <skaet> smoser, ok - just hadn't heard back from my earlier ping to him, so wasn't sure if he was on it or not.
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> can someone please reject the firefox upload in quantal-proposed?
[15:13] <popey> Laney, I have updated the bug, it may not have been clear initially, the emblems are already in Ubuntu, this bug fixes an inconsistency between the music/video lenses and the dash.
[15:14] <Laney> popey: ScottK took it over.
[15:14] <Laney> chrisccoulson: yeah
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[15:14] <popey> ok, ScottK ^^ :)
[15:14] <Laney> kaboom, it falls down
[15:14] <balloons> skaet, so the server upgrades are "fixed".. they are pointing at the desktop upgrade case though. .it seems we don't have a different server upgrade case
[15:15] <balloons> I'm sure Daviey and I can come up with any minor tweaks and create one
[15:15] <ScottK> popey: skaet is going to review the FFe's in question after Beta 2 is out and make a final decision.  To me it seems non-critical and I think it's too late for non-critical.
[15:15] <popey> noted ScottK, thanks
[15:15] <skaet> balloons,  can you work with Daviey then after this release is out to get an appropriate test case in there.   (Since he's a member of release team, and has a vested interest in Ubuntu Server)
[15:16] <balloons> skaet, yes of course.. it's status quo. the legacy cases also pointed at the desktop upgrade case
[15:16] <skaet> s/release/beta2 release/
[15:16] <smartboyhw> It seems like there is goign to be a ninth member of testcase admins team then:P (aka Daviey)
[15:17] <balloons> smartboyhw, Daviey is a member of the release team.. He has super cow powers
[15:17] <smartboyhw> Super cow:)
[15:18] <cjwatson> smartboyhw: apt-get moo
[15:18] <skaet> release team members and flavor leads,   could I ask you all to take a read through the current test cases on the iso tracker and make sure they make sense from your perspective.   Goal here is to make sure the set of manditory test cases is truly manditory,  and we're not including manual testing that doesn't add value.  Similarily,   if there are areas where we should be adding test coverage,  please add the test
[15:18] <skaet>  cases (I'm thinking of earlier comments from knome).
[15:18] <utlemming> skaet, arosales: Beta2 Cloud images are all tested -- results look good.
[15:18] <smartboyhw> Why is everybody apt-get moo at me?
[15:19] <utlemming> skaet, arosales: the cloud images can be marked ready
[15:19] <skaet> thanks utlemming
[15:22] <cjwatson> skaet: Let me know when you think we can start flushing the upload queue due to being past the point of no return
[15:22] <cjwatson> I'd like to do that under supervision so that I can make sure the timeout-avoidance code works
[15:23] <skaet> cjwatson, will do.   Just waiting for Daviey to let us know about the missing tests from Ubuntu Server.
[15:25]  * cjwatson accepts some unseeded things in the meantime
[15:25] <cjwatson> (xorg-server wasn't me)
[15:25] <cjwatson> Oh, it also apparently wasn't actually accepted.  OK
[15:26] <Laney> heh
[15:26]  * stgraber really needs to figure out what's going on with queuebot when queues are too long...
[15:26] <skaet> +1
[15:26] <xnox> queuebot has became a practical joker like that AI super computer in I, Robot.
[15:33]  * smartboyhw wonders what happened to the Ubuntu Desktop upgrade amd64 not marked ready
[15:35] <skaet> smartboyhw,  oversite.  fixing
[15:35] <stgraber> patched queuebot to actually check for the record status instead of assuming that !rejected == accepted and have it discard the data it receives from LP if the package status don't make sense
[15:36] <stgraber> hopefully that should fix the problems or at least let me figure out what's going on
[15:36] <cjwatson> great, thanks
[15:41] <smartboyhw> skaet, please explain what is oversite to me;P
[15:42] <ogra_> missed
[15:42] <cjwatson> typo for oversight
[15:43] <cjwatson> (which may help non-native speakers)
[15:43] <smartboyhw> Ah:P
[15:43] <plars> skaet: not sure if someone is already on it, but I'm trying to work out the iscsi tests
[15:43] <skaet> plars,  thanks.  Daviey,  if someone else is already doing the ISCSI tests,  please let plars know.
[15:44] <skaet> sorry smartboyhw,  my bad.
[15:44] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:44] <plars> Daviey: even if not, it would still be helpful to have someone else looking at it too, as I've just now installed iscsitarget on a local machine to try to muck through it
[15:45] <infinity> Good morning.
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Hello infinity
[15:47] <skaet> hello infinity,   do we ship powerpc server image or not?
[15:48] <skaet> it doesn't have all its tests done,  but its common code with the rest that seems fairly well tested.
[15:48] <skaet> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/238/builds/24193/testcases
[15:49] <infinity> skaet: All its tests aren't really necessary for an unsupported port, IMO, as long as someone's tested that the ISO works at all.
[15:49] <infinity> skaet: And it looks like someone's tested that it boots and installs, and those passed, so that's enough for me.
[15:49] <skaet> infinity,  ok,  can you work with balloons after beta2 is out to get the set of manditory test cases adjusted to what is truly manditory.
[15:50] <skaet> for the final release,  all manditory will need to be run,  as well as all run once.
[15:50] <phillw> skaet: the issues we're seeing with ppc seem to be 'X' related (even though kernel driven), as server is CLI it should be immune from them?
[15:51] <skaet> phillw,  yes,  so I assume, and why its likely ok to ship.
[15:51] <infinity> phillw: Your X issues are video card specific too, are they not?  It's not "all PPC hardware".
[15:52] <phillw> infinity: provided you do not have radeon or nvidea cards, you are okay... Which I thinks covers all the apple PPC's ;(
[15:52] <infinity> phillw: Oh, I thought it was only one or the other that was broken.
[15:53] <phillw> the nvidea issue is now fix commited (it also affects other distros and archs).
[15:53] <infinity> phillw: Also, radeon on my PPC machine is fine in quantal (assuming I don't use radeonfb, but what was a known bug)
[15:53] <phillw> infinity: no such look for us!
[15:53] <infinity> s/what/that/
[15:54] <phillw> as the dust settles I'll ask some one who knows about kernels to take a look at the proposed kernel fix before I go and ask the kernel team. It would be useful if I actually understood what I was asking for :D
[15:58] <rtg> skaet, should the netboot images have been rebuilt since Sept 22 ? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
[15:59] <skaet> rtg,  no api change was the word when it was asked earlier this week.
[15:59]  * ogra_ doesnt think there was a d-i upload since the 22nd
[15:59] <cjwatson> Indeed.  We'll do one after beta
[16:00] <rtg> ok, but the kernel in d-i still has the linker problem that we sorted out with doko
[16:02] <ScottK> phillw: Understanding leads to questions.  Often it's better just not to know.
[16:03] <cjwatson> rtg: Hm, I didn't see any visible effects from it ... wasn't that a total boot failure?
[16:03] <rtg> cjwatson, not always, often it was just an annoyance about graphics mode selction
[16:04] <phillw> ScottK: he he, then someone who understands what is a written proposed solution would need to look at it to see the feasability of it (I think that there are two ways forward that have been suggested).
[16:04] <rtg> cjwatson, ogasawara: I'm bumping the kernel ABI so that we're sure to rebuild d-i after the beta release.
[16:05] <ScottK> phillw: Yes, but "I don't really understand enough about this to have an informed opinion, would you please look at it and tell me what you think?" can be a nice work shifting device.
[16:05] <ScottK> Let's not get into how I know that.
[16:05] <phillw> thanks for the tip :)
[16:06] <cjwatson> rtg: I thought we got that fix.  It stopped bugging me on boot.
[16:06] <infinity> rtg: I rebuilt for that fix.
[16:07] <infinity> rtg: Anyhow, no need for artificial ABI bumps, there will be d-i uploads right after beta.
[16:08] <rtg> infinity, I'm checking for when that fix went in. I just updated my cobbler installation and experienced the grpahics selection bug, which is why I checked the last date on the ISO
[16:08] <ScottK> I approved the privacy change FFe.
[16:08] <infinity> rtg: Well, the fix was fixed a few different ways/times.  Maybe I didn't rebuild for the last one where you fixed the struct.
[16:08] <infinity> rtg: Let me see.
[16:09] <rtg> Ubuntu-3.5.0-14.18
[16:09] <rtg> so, the netboot ISO should have that fix.
[16:09] <infinity> rtg: Indeed it should.
[16:10] <rtg> hmm, wtf
[16:11] <infinity> rtg: Maybe you have an outdated ISO?
[16:11] <infinity> rtg: Or maybe the bug just hates you. :/
[16:12] <rtg> infinity, its possible both reasons are afflicting me. gimme a bit to figure it out
[16:14] <infinity> rtg: Alternately, no one accidentally reverted 14.18 in a later release, did they?
[16:14] <infinity> rtg: (We've long since rebuilt to pick up -15.*-)
[16:15] <rtg> infinity, nope, I just checked. The 'used' attribute is still present in the source code.
[16:15] <infinity> Hrm.
[16:15] <infinity> Kay, well the kernel used for d-i right now would be 15.22, so all it's missing is the i915 backlight reverts.
[16:16] <infinity> Which is likely irksome to some, but shouldn't be cause your bug to come back. :/
[16:16] <rtg> infinity, I'll know as soon as the machine I'm installing is done. then I can check what kernel its using.
[16:16] <infinity> rtg: Checking after installation might be less helpful than hitting a terminal right now and looking. :P
[16:17] <infinity> rtg: Since it's the kernel baked into the installer that you're curious about, not what it plans to install, no?
[16:17] <rtg> infinity, the colors are so messed up that I can't read it on another console.
[16:17] <infinity> Oh.  Lolz.
[16:17] <infinity> I'd suggest serial, but x86 kit with serial is the computing unicorn these days.
[16:18] <rtg> just so happens this machine is old enough that it still has serial, but thats kind of a last resort
[16:21] <skaet> infinity,  all the test results are in now,  and they look basically ready to start the pre-publishing off.
[16:22] <infinity> Basically ready is such a comforting noun phrase.
[16:22] <cjwatson> Whoa, we forgot to do early pre-publishing again
[16:22] <cjwatson> Damnit
[16:22] <cjwatson> I meant to check on that
[16:22] <skaet> cjwatson,  ack.
[16:27] <plars> Daviey: I can't seem to get the iscsi tests to work, but it's highly likely it's something in my setup as I don't have a known-working environment for this, is there someone from your team that could take a look?
[16:35] <balloons> plars, I don't know if there's anything different in this one: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/225/builds/16299/testcases/1337/results
[16:35] <balloons> it's been verified to work however
[16:35] <ogra_> 1337 ?
[16:35] <ogra_> heh
[16:35] <jibel> plars, jamespage can help you with iscsi
[16:38] <plars> hmm, I may have just found the problem... I have something on my network that is causing a problem I think
[16:38] <plars> let me start this over and try again
[16:39] <infinity> Pre-publishing is syncing to mirrors.
[16:40] <jamespage> jibel, I'm trying but my laptop keeps overheating
[16:40] <Daviey> plars: jamespage is doing the iscsi stuff right now
[16:41] <plars> Daviey: ok, I may keep going with it at least on the unauthenticated mode to see if I can get it working - thanks!
[16:41] <skaet> infinity,  ack. thanks.
[16:41] <Daviey> plars: cool!
[16:47] <jamespage> Daviey, jibel, plars: seeing an issue with iscsi root
[16:47] <jamespage> grub appears, but initramfs fails to find the iscsi device so no /dev/by-uuid
[16:48] <jamespage> that was for authenticated
[16:48] <jamespage> I'll try unauthed as well now
[16:52] <plars> ogra_: have you tried netboot install since the flash-kernel update?
[16:52] <ogra_> plars, i commented on the bug (and closed it too)
[16:53] <plars> ogra_: oh, I didn't see the message I guess... I'll go look, but I just finished an attempt, and confirmed I have the new f-k and I'm getting "/dev/mmcblk0p1 is not a block device" still
[16:53] <ogra_> hmm
[16:53] <ogra_> on real iron ?
[16:54] <ogra_> i tested in a vm
[16:54] <plars> ogra_: yes, on my iron-panda
[16:54] <plars> :)
[16:55] <plars> ogra_: I don't need a newer netboot image or anything right? it's pulling it from the archive not from the image
[16:55] <cjwatson> plars: that's right
[16:55] <ogra_> yep
[16:55] <cjwatson> it's possible there's a similar symptom a little further down
[16:56]  * cjwatson will let ogra_ analyse it though :)
[16:56] <ogra_> yeah, i'll try an omap4 install now
[16:56] <plars> and if I go to a shell, I still see only /dev/mmcblk0 (no p1)
[16:56] <ogra_> might be that there is a difference vs omap3
[16:56] <ogra_> plars, erm, which image did you use ?
[16:57] <ogra_> smells like you just used the fat partition
[16:57] <plars> boot.img-fat-serial
[16:57] <plars> I did
[16:57] <ogra_> heh
[16:57] <plars> because I needed serial
[16:57] <plars> yeah, I was just thinking... I'm not sure that one includes partitioning
[16:57] <ogra_> right, you want the .gz image still
[16:57] <plars> meh
[16:58] <ogra_> -fat is actually only the content of the first partition
[16:58] <plars> ogra_: so this image won't work then, need to just modify the other one instead?
[16:58] <ogra_> now dont ask me why we publish that
[16:58] <ogra_> NCommander created that
[16:58] <plars> but that was my next question!
[16:58] <plars> poo
[16:58] <plars> ok
[16:58] <ogra_> i'll happily remove it
[16:58] <plars> well, that's a relief actually
[16:58] <infinity> We should probably stop publishing the partition images.  Or include a nice README.
[16:58] <ogra_> (i ran into the same issue before btw)
[16:59] <cjwatson> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/quantal/main/installer-armhf/current/images/MANIFEST has a one-line description of each image, but fails to mention the -fat ones ...
[17:01] <cjwatson> ev: You can't use the same version in both quantal and precise-proposed.
[17:01] <cjwatson> ev: Perhaps you want -0ubuntu3.1 in precise-proposed (in which case remember to tweak the Breaks/Replaces).
[17:01] <ev> argh, okay
[17:01] <ev> yeah, I had that before but it seemed messy
[17:01] <ev> will do
[17:01]  * cjwatson rejects
[17:03] <plars> ogra_: what might be even nicer is to just have a preEnv.txt for both normal, and serial install boot on the boot partition
[17:03] <plars> ogra_: perhaps with a README saying to just swap it out for the serial one if you need/want to do serial installs
[17:03] <ogra_> plars, we do ...
[17:03] <plars> ogra_: oh?
[17:03] <ogra_> oh, perhaps not in the netinst image
[17:03] <skaet> infinity,  which of the pre-publishing steps in Release minus a couple of hours in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaProcess are done now?
[17:04] <plars> ogra_: ah, right, I think I saw that on server, but it's not on netinst
[17:04] <infinity> The netboot images are actually different (different modules, etc)
[17:04] <ogra_> all others have preEnv.txt and preEnv.txt-serial
[17:04] <infinity> It's not just a config thing.
[17:04] <ogra_> plars, though generally i was thinking about dropping -serial ... it is so easy to edit the file now
[17:05] <infinity> skaet: None, since "minus a couple of hours" refers to publishing, not pre-publishing.
[17:05] <ogra_> so people wanting serial can easily add console=ttyF00
[17:06] <plars> ogra_: but it's also easy to leave it, and probably saves you from the occasional "what do I add to make it work with serial installs" question
[17:06] <plars> :)
[17:06] <ogra_> true
[17:06] <infinity> Yeah, I see no reason to drop the serial netboot image.
[17:06] <ogra_> infinity, not the serial image
[17:06] <skaet> infinity minus a couple of hours of publishing,  is pre-publishing to me.  :P
[17:06] <ogra_> i was talking about preEnv.txt-serial
[17:06] <infinity> ogra_: Oh, yeah.  Well, that's a nice hint.
[17:06] <plars> +1 for dropping the serial image, +1 for adding preEnv.txt-serial
[17:07] <skaet> infinity,  please let me know which of the steps are done,  or which are still needed.
[17:07] <ogra_> plars, ok: i'll do tht over the next days
[17:07] <infinity> skaet: I only just pre-published, I'll jump on the "minus a couple of hours" stuff now.
[17:07]  * ogra_ puts on hos TODO
[17:07] <ogra_> *his
[17:08] <skaet> infinity,  ack.   please post as they get done, so we can stay in sync.
[17:08] <infinity> ogra_: -1 to dropping the serial image and consolodating with fb.  It makes my life harder. :P
[17:08] <ogra_> infinity, in what way ?
[17:08] <infinity> ogra_: Because I'd now need to edit an image to boot serial?
[17:09] <ogra_> hmm, k
[17:09] <infinity> Seems like a step backward when it's no maintenance headache to provide both for netboot.
[17:09] <plars> infinity: just like you do for -server? :)
[17:09] <ogra_> so we'll keep serial and fb images but drop fat
[17:09] <skaet> infinity,  #7 is done.
[17:09] <infinity> plars: For server, it makes sense, cause shipping two enormous images is silly.
[17:09] <plars> right, it should be the full image if you're really serious about keeping it
[17:12] <Daviey> skaet: There is an iscsi issue, where booting isn't working as expected.  jamespage has confidently seen it, and seems plars is also experiencing woe.
[17:12] <Daviey> release notes will be updated
[17:12] <Daviey> it is not a beta release blocker
[17:12] <skaet> Daviey,  understood.
[17:13] <Daviey> I need to go afk.. We should be good to go. :)
[17:13]  * ogra_ never got that iscsi hype ... nbd is so much easier :P
[17:15] <plars> jamespage: doesn't seem to be working for me under unauthenticated either
[17:15] <plars> error: no such device: (uuid)
[17:16] <jamespage> plars, yeah - same problem then
[17:16] <jamespage> plars, iscsistart: No target ... as well?
[17:17] <jamespage> plars, bug 1057635
[17:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1057635 in ubuntu "initramfs does not use iscsiroot device presented by ipxe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057635
[17:18] <plars> jamespage: no, I don't see that, but I did see something odd after making a stupid mistake
[17:18] <plars> jamespage: I assumed I would need to install grub to a local drive
[17:18] <plars> jamespage: so I erased my local drive and created a single empty partition on it at install time just to make sure it was initialized (but I didn't use the partition for anything)
[17:19] <plars> jamespage: when it got to the stage of asking where to stick the bootloader, the default was sdb (my iscsi target), and I pressed enter instead of changing it
[17:19] <plars> so... it didn't boot
[17:20] <plars> but I went into rescue, and tried to rewrite grub but it seemed sda was still empty, uninitialized, no partition...
[17:20]  * Daviey goes afk
[17:20] <plars> I init'd it manually, and wrote grub to it after mounting root on /dev/sdb1
[17:20] <plars> and it didn't complain, but it didn't boot
[17:20] <plars> only error was the "error: no such device" one
[17:20] <plars> jamespage: ^
[17:27] <jamespage> plars, I use this branch for scirpted testing using ipxe
[17:27] <jamespage> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/+junk/iscsi-testing
[17:27] <jamespage> have to go afk now
[17:28] <plars> thanks, I'll take a look
[17:39] <infinity> Oh lovely, we haven't spit out a source CD since the 6th.  Why isn't that cronned? :/
[17:42] <skaet> infinity,  feel free to add it so we don't see the issue next time.
[17:43] <infinity> Sure, once I sort out how to coax cdimage into producing a source CD set.
[17:58] <infinity> La la la, making source CDs.  Do dee dooo...
[18:00] <knome> will http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ have the beta images too?
[18:01] <infinity> knome: They'll show up in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/quantal/ when I'm done.
[18:01] <knome> infinity, ok, so there's no single url where you can *always* get the latest iso?
[18:01] <infinity> knome: Well, for what definition of "latest"?
[18:01] <infinity> knome: The URL you gave is always the latest built.
[18:02] <knome> so, the beta images will show up in that url too?
[18:02] <infinity> knome: The URL I gave points to milestones.
[18:02] <knome> but not the one i posted?
[18:02] <infinity> knome: daily = daily, releases = releases.  Seems fairly straightforward. ;)
[18:03] <knome> yeah, just checking.
[18:03] <skaet> knome,   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/12.10/beta-2/  will have the Xubuntu beta 2 images
[18:04] <knome> skaet, yeah, i was just wondering if the beta images show up in the daily directory.
[18:04] <skaet> the current images in daily right now,  will become the beta-2 images and persist,  while we go back to adding fresh updates to dailies from now until final freeze.
[18:12] <cjwatson> I've never cronned it because it seems like a lot to spit out all the time, and we want it to be done basically after we've finished with all the respins we're going to do
[18:12] <cjwatson> Which is either difficult to automate or very expensive, depending on which approach you take :-)
[18:12] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I think commented out in cron as a gentle reminder would be enough. :P
[18:13] <infinity> cjwatson: Especially if/when I move to automating a buch of that, and I need to remember WTF we're building. ;)
[18:16] <cjwatson> Yeah, might not be a bad plan, as long as it's marked so people don't uncomment it in bulk
[18:18] <skaet> +1
[18:20] <slangasek> infinity: hey, so in the end I've side-stepped systemd-logind; so I no longer have an FFe justification for kmod, should I reject it?
[18:20] <slangasek> (so it doesn't appear in the auto-flush)
[18:20] <infinity> slangasek: It wouldn't ayway, since it's in NEW.
[18:20] <slangasek> ah right
[18:20] <slangasek> well should I reject it anyway? :)
[18:21] <infinity> slangasek: But if you want to hold off until R, reject away.  I can fish it out of the queue and re-upload it in a few weeks. :P
[18:21] <slangasek> infinity: also, pam-xdg-support has a pending FFe request for bug #894391 and is in NEW
[18:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 894391 in ubuntu "[FFe] support $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894391
[18:21] <skaet> infinity,  where are we with publishing right now?
[18:21] <infinity> slangasek: DEAR GOD MAN, CAN'T YOU SEE I'M TRYING TO DO A BETA RELEASE.
[18:22] <infinity> slangasek: I mean "cool, I'll check it in a little bit".
[18:22]  * infinity coughs.
[18:22] <slangasek> infinity: yes, I figure that's the best time to ask you whether my FFe is ok
[18:22] <slangasek> QUICK, ANSWER NOW
[18:22] <infinity> There needs to be a unicode glyph for flipping the bird.
[18:22] <skaet> slangasek,  you taking lessons from PS?
[18:23] <slangasek> heh
[18:23] <infinity> skaet: Just produced and published some source ISOs, going through the manual verification bits.  Hold please.
[18:23] <skaet> k
[18:24]  * infinity sheds a tear for the kmod reject.
[18:25] <skaet> ahh.... there's gilir
[18:26] <skaet> gilir,  do you have any updates for:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Beta2,   if not, could you remove the "TODO" with your name on it.
[18:30] <gilir> skaet, done, sorry for the delay
[18:30] <skaet> thanks gilir
[18:31] <infinity> skaet: Alright, cdimage mangling is all done, we should be ready to sync.
[18:31] <infinity> skaet: (So, 2 and 3 are done and verified)
[18:32] <skaet> infinity,  ok,  I'm working on 4 then now.
[18:32] <infinity> skaet: Alright, I'll push to the mirrors nowish, then.
[18:33] <skaet> yeah,  I'll start checking the links as soon as you tell me should be good.
[18:33] <infinity> Hrm, wait.
[18:33] <infinity> -./quantal/MD5SUMS-metalink
[18:33] <infinity> -./quantal/MD5SUMS-metalink.gpg
[18:34] <infinity> cjwatson: ^-- Did your rewriting make metalinks asplode?
[18:36] <infinity> cjwatson: I has no quantal metalinks at all (either individual ones, or the md5sums)
[18:41] <infinity> Hrm, looks like someone other than me already ran sync-mirrors anyway. :P
[18:44] <skaet> ??
[18:44] <infinity> Either that, or one took so long to get around to responding to the pre-publish push that it picked up beta-2 along the way.  Seems less likely.
[18:45] <infinity> But releases.u.c has beta-2.
[18:45]  * skaet goes to start checking the links
[18:45] <infinity> Should probably wait on checking until all the mirrors have stopped suckling on nusakan's port 873.
[18:46] <TheDrums> Why is it that lubuntu-12.10-beta2-preinstalled-desktop-armhf+ac100.tar.gz.zsync downloads lubuntu-12.10-beta2-preinstalled-desktop-armhf+ac100.tar (not gz, and is MUCH larger) ?
[18:46] <infinity> TheDrums: Bug, someone noted it yesterday, I think.
[18:47] <infinity> ogra_: Didn't you have a fix for that? ---^
[18:47] <TheDrums> Happened for beta1 as well, figured I should ask this round.
[18:47] <ogra_> infinity, no, cjwatson wanted to look at it
[18:47] <infinity> ogra_: Ahh, I only caught half the conversation.
[18:47] <ogra_> infinity, i only had the same prob but wanted to finish beta testing so didnt care any further and used wget
[18:48] <skaet> infinity,   64-bit Mac (AMD64) server install CD should be on cdimages,   not supported image per Daviey.
[18:49] <infinity> skaet: Oh.  That's irksome.  It's only supported for desktop?
[18:49] <ogra_> TheDrums, use wget for now (dunno, probably rsync would work too)
[18:49] <skaet> only for server
[18:49] <skaet> desktop is supported
[18:49] <infinity> skaet: Yes, that's what I just said. :P
[18:49] <ogra_> TheDrums, thanks a lot for reporting (and reminding me)
[18:49] <skaet> rather server not supported,   desktop supported.
[18:49] <skaet> yeah
[18:49] <skaet> read it wrong.
[18:49] <infinity> skaet: I'm all for ignoring that for beta-2, and publishing differently for release.  Manuall mangling it is annoying.
[18:49] <infinity> Manually, too.
[18:50] <skaet> ok.  Can we clean up the Desktop CD reference on the page to say Desktop Images?
[18:51] <infinity> Well, it's still an ISO, which is what we call a "CD" in the publishing scripts.
[18:51] <skaet> yeah but its misleading to refer to it as an ISO.
[18:51] <skaet> sorry
[18:51] <skaet> rather a CD
[18:51] <infinity> And is still more non-tech friendly, I suspect, for people burning to optical media (despite it not fitting on a CD).
[18:52] <infinity> Cause no one knows what an "ISO" is.
[18:52] <infinity> But maybe it's time to just drop the "CD" thing entirely, even for the images that do fit.
[18:52]  * skaet nods
[18:54] <TheDrums> ogra_: Sure thing.
[18:55] <skaet> Riddell,  ScottK - we'll need to do the same thing for Kubuntu as well I think,  still referencing CD there too.
[18:56] <skaet> infinity,  links work.   Can you confirm the torrents are operational?
[18:56] <skaet> (and if not,  go prod #is...)
[18:59] <infinity> Well, some of the torrents work...
[19:08] <skaet> and OMGUbuntu's pulled the usual pre-announce the release stunt.... :P
[19:09] <infinity> Yeah, big shock there.
[19:09] <infinity> S'ok, it means the torrents will be well-seeded by the time your announce goes out. ;)
[19:11] <skaet> :)
[19:16] <phillw> infinity: is torrentflux a decent system to install as a seeder server, or do you have a better suggestion?
[19:18] <infinity> phillw: I'm pretty torrent ignorant, not the best person to ask.
[19:19] <phillw> any hints?
[19:19]  * infinity taps his foot while magellanic finishes syncing.
[19:20] <infinity> phillw: Not so much, no.
[19:20] <phillw> skaet: do you know who looks after the torrent server for ubuntu?
[19:22] <infinity> phillw: #canonical-sysadmin, but you may find they're a bit busy to answer any questions right now.
[19:23] <phillw> infinity: fine, I'll catch up with them tomorrow, I know just after a milestone release is a busy time!
[19:42] <skaet> infinity,  release steps 1,2,3 done.  moving on to the rest.    Plan is to leave the archive frozen.    Don't flush the unapproved queue though until cjwatson is back online.   He wants to keep an eye on things.
[19:42] <infinity> skaet: Yeah, I've talked to him about it.
[19:43] <infinity> skaet: I'm still wrangling torrent messes.
[19:43] <skaet> infinity,  oh,  thought it was good from your message earlier, or would have held off on announce.  :(
[19:44] <infinity> skaet: Probably not world-ending to push the announce while we sort this.
[19:48] <skaet> infinity,  it was mailed already, since you said some of the torrents work.   raise a flag if theres a snag please.
[19:49] <infinity> skaet: I figured "some" implied "not all". ;)
[19:49] <infinity> skaet: Anyhow, there are only a few that are sad, and we're working through it. It's not like the torrents "work" very well right when we say they do anyway, since they have no peers. :P
[19:49] <skaet> k
[19:59] <highvoltage> " * Changes from the Ubuntu defaults for certain packages."
[19:59] <highvoltage> who butchered the edubuntu release notes :-/
[20:00] <highvoltage> (ah perhaps they didn't)
[20:00] <stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, the release announcement doesn't contain eveything from the tech overview
[20:01] <highvoltage> stgraber: indeed, I just realised that.
[20:20] <infinity> cjwatson: Is publish-release on your rewrite hitlist?
[20:21] <infinity> cjwatson: If so, it has a bug you won't want to replicate (multi-pass publishing cleans the torrent directory of the previous pass)
[20:21] <infinity> cjwatson: If not, we should fix that bug in the shell version. :P
[20:23] <infinity> skaet: Torrents should all be happy now.
[20:24] <skaet> Thanks infinity.  :0
[20:24] <skaet> :)
[20:24]  * infinity decides it's time for a proper lunch before undoing all the beta bits on cdimage and turning dailies back on, etc.
[20:30]  * skaet thinks its time for her lunch too....
[20:56] <slangasek> infinity, skaet: congrats on the beta :)
[21:21] <cjwatson> infinity: that torrent business has annoyed me for ages, yes.  I noticed it for 12.04 I think but it was really painful to fix in shell
[21:21] <cjwatson> infinity: everything is on my hitlist, but particularly publish-release
[21:21] <cjwatson> infinity: did you figure out the metalink business?  I certainly hadn't intended to break that
[21:23] <cjwatson> skaet: am I good to flush the queue at leisure?
[21:28] <phillw> cjwatson: whilst infinity and skaet return from lunch, could you answer me a question about including  * b43-fwcutter on an ISO? Lubuntu seem to have it on LiveCD, but not installation iso's....
[21:28] <cjwatson> That's controlled by your seeds
[21:29] <phillw> cjwatson: the question, I think, is are we 'allowed' to include it?
[21:29] <cjwatson> Up to you
[21:29] <phillw> no copyright issues?
[21:30] <cjwatson> Not AFAIK
[21:30] <skaet> cjwatson,  you're good to process them through now.    Keeping the archive frozen though.
[21:30] <cjwatson> Why?
[21:30] <cjwatson> We normally flush and unfreeze at about the same time.
[21:30] <cjwatson> Or do you mean permanently until release?
[21:30] <skaet> Until release
[21:30] <phillw> thanks, it really threw a guy out as his WiFi was working perfectly on LiveCD and he did an install and it went POOOF!!!
[21:31] <skaet> There's a bit too much churn going on, and don't want to break the dailies between here and final freeze.
[21:31] <cjwatson> skaet: Damn, that means I actually have to review everything then.
[21:32] <cjwatson> Can you announce that, if you haven't already?
[21:32] <skaet> cjwatson.  Will do.   In ubuntu-release email ok?   or ubuntu-devel better?
[21:32] <cjwatson> -devel-announce, I think.  It's a pretty major change!
[21:34] <iulian> Are we keeping the archive frozen until release, i.e. final release?
[21:34] <skaet> cjwatson,  is it?   we kept it frozen after beta 2 in oneiric,  and it was frozen from 3 weeks out in precise as well.
[21:34] <cjwatson> ev: I'm afraid your activity-log-manager upload to quantal clashed with a different one already in the queue.  I accepted Didier's since it was there first; please rebase your change on top
[21:34] <skaet> iulian,   yes,  we're keeping it frozen until release.
[21:35]  * skaet will go compose the email for devel-announce
[21:35] <cjwatson> skaet: 3 weeks out in precise wasn't beta 2, though ...
[21:35] <cjwatson> At any rate it seems worth telling people.
[21:36]  * iulian nods.
[21:36] <iulian> I thought we're going to unfreeze now.
[21:36] <skaet> agreed.   I put it in the channel headers when I announced beta 2 was out for #ubuntu-release and #ubuntu-devel,  but better to overcommunicate than under.
[21:36] <skaet> iulian,  fixes can be let in now,  but not without some review.
[21:37] <cjwatson> I'll review the queue then.  Will take some time.
[21:37] <skaet> see comment above from cjwatson on clashing. :/
[21:37] <cjwatson> Can I accept my own if I know they're bug-fix-only?
[21:37] <skaet> yes
[21:38] <slangasek> Do the gnome 3.6 ones need anything beyond a pro-forma review?  I could help with some of those
[21:38] <stgraber> I'm also around for reviews if you want to split
[21:39] <skaet> slangasek,  not unless Laney has something he's worried about.
[21:39] <skaet> thanks stgraber.
[21:39]  * slangasek starts at 'gedit' for the moment
[21:39] <cjwatson> I guess I probably ought not to review my own for the sake of form.
[21:39] <cjwatson> Resolving duplicates first.
[21:41] <infinity> All of the stuff with version numbers that look suspiciously like 3.6.0* probably only need lightweight review, at best.
[21:42] <infinity> And that's where I had planned to start.
[21:42] <slangasek> there look to be enough of them to go around
[21:43] <infinity> Oh, and I can unreject gtkhtml4.0 now, and get its rdeps rebuilt.
[21:44] <infinity> Oh, sweet mother of... I left all the torrents downloading while I was at lunch, cause I forgot to delete them all after testing.
[21:44] <infinity> I now have, uhm, a lot of beta2.
[21:46] <cjwatson> (Oh, and please particularly today tell me about any queue timeouts rather than just trying again.)
[21:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, wait, are we reviewing but not accepting, so you can do a mass accept run?
[21:46] <cjwatson> Doesn't matter.
[21:46] <infinity> (ignore the dpkg and gtkhtml I just accepted, if so)
[21:46] <cjwatson> queue does one request per accept anyway.
[21:47] <infinity> cjwatson: Kay, I just know you wanted to clear the queue.
[21:47] <infinity> And somehow lost focus on that with the talk of reviewing. :P
[21:47] <cjwatson> I just wanted to be around.
[21:48]  * iulian is going to do a few reviews and then bed.
[21:49] <iulian> cjwatson: Shall I start from the bottom and work my way up?
[21:49] <cjwatson> As you wish
[21:49]  * infinity is really tempted to just batch accept 3.6.0*...
[21:49] <cjwatson> The odd collision won't kill us
[21:49] <stgraber> ouch, why did I open the grub2 diff again? :)
[21:49] <infinity> Which is what I would have done if the uploads had been a day earlier.
[21:49] <iulian> cjwatson: OK, great.
[21:50] <doko> do I need somebody to formally review binutils and gcc-4.7 updates, or can I copy these with the pre-built binaries from the ubuntu-toolchain-r PPA?
[21:50] <cjwatson> You can copy them and they'll land in the queue, since we're still frozen
[21:50] <doko> ok
[21:50] <cjwatson> Whoever accepted language-selector might want to accept the other one so that its bugs get closed.
[21:50] <cjwatson> (0.88)
[21:50] <infinity> Not that copies with binaries are remotely reviewable.
[21:50] <infinity> Without tracing back through history.
[21:51] <cjwatson> I'm reviewing nova and quantum, but need to go rescue a crying baby.
[21:51] <infinity> I'm just working bottom-up on gnome 3.6
[21:54] <infinity> cjwatson: As for the publish-release torrent bug, isn't it already a solved problem with publish-release's publishing of images to simple/ and full/?  Surely, the same logic could apply, instead of just wiping the directory clean.
[21:54] <infinity> cjwatson: (But if it's being rewritten soon, I'd rather just make a mental note of the bug for release day and otherwise not waste time on it)
[22:03] <cjwatson> infinity: I think it was a bit more complicated than that, but I forget the detais
[22:03] <cjwatson> *details
[22:03] <infinity> cjwatson: Fair enough.  And now that I'm aware of it, I don't much care either.
[22:03] <cjwatson> wrap-and-sort: for when you want to annoy reviewers
[22:03] <infinity> cjwatson: Hunting it down was a bit surprising, s'all. :)
[22:04] <infinity> cjwatson: wrap-and-sort is great after the first application, mind you. :/
[22:04] <infinity> cjwatson: The diffs sure get more readable in subsequent uploads.
[22:04] <cjwatson> No doubt.  Just do it when I don't have to read the result. :-P
[22:04] <infinity> *grin*
[22:04] <iulian> :)
[22:05]  * infinity goes to clean out -proposed, since he already reviewed most of those once.
[22:06] <cjwatson> zul: Not grounds for rejection or anything, but this change in nova 2012.2-0ubuntu1:
[22:06] <cjwatson> +  * debian/control: Dont conflict with novnc. (LP: #1055505)
[22:06] <cjwatson> zul: ... doesn't actually appear to be present in the diff.
[22:09] <slangasek> what, no scathing feedback on the mountall upload?  I'm disappointed
[22:11] <xnox> slangasek: the tim of the upload in debian and sync was peculiar.
[22:11] <infinity> Can we give TheMuso a gold star for actually documenting changes in his uploads instead of the usual "New upstream release" that every other desktop uploader uses?
[22:11] <xnox> s/tim/time/
[22:11] <slangasek> xnox: was it?
[22:11] <xnox> doko: git ^^^^^ accepted above =/
[22:12] <ScottK> Note for the post-release release team feedback session at UDS: Finding out that the design for a new feature that's been requested to land post beta 2 has significantly changed via jono's blog post isn't really the best communication flow.
[22:12] <stgraber> bdmurray: ping
[22:12] <xnox> slangasek: well it was morning here. So it must have not been a reasonable hour to fiddle with mountall.
[22:12] <slangasek> xnox: dude, those are the ONLY hours I fiddle with mountall
[22:12] <slangasek> ;)
[22:13] <infinity> Why is this starting to sound dirty?
[22:13] <stgraber> bdmurray: looks like your ubuntu-release-upgrader wasn't generated properly, it contains a lot of file removal: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/117539252/ubuntu-release-upgrader_1%3A0.180_1%3A0.181.diff.gz
[22:13] <stgraber> bdmurray: I'll reject it to avoid getting another broken upgrader in the archive. If the diff is actually correct, let me know and I'll get it out of rejected.
[22:14] <cjwatson> bdmurray,stgraber: use bzr bd -S not debuild -S
[22:14] <stgraber> right, otherwise the pre-build script doesn't run
[22:14] <cjwatson> stgraber: in fact how about I reupload on his behalf that way :)
[22:14] <stgraber> cjwatson: feel free :)
[22:17]  * infinity goes crosseyed at empathy's 2.6MB diff and goes to find a coffee.
[22:17]  * xnox ponders if I should drink coffee at 11 pm..... I like coffee but also like sleep.
[22:18] <iulian> Ah, had ceph in front of my eyes.
[22:18] <stgraber> me too :)
[22:18]  * xnox was just suggested to add an empty file in the initramfs to satisfy mdadm check for running inside initramfs..... because of systemd *sigh*
[22:19] <cjwatson> tjaalton: what happened to debian/patches/nouveau-nva3-noaccel-info.patch in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau 1:1.0.2-0ubuntu2?
[22:21] <slangasek> xnox: ... for Ubuntu?
[22:22] <xnox> slangasek: linux-raid mailing list.... that patch is not in mdadm yet, but just got proposed. http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InitrdInterface   /etc/initrd-release is the equivalent of /etc/os-release
[22:22]  * slangasek snorts
[22:23] <xnox> slangasek: to detect if systemd is running in the initrd or real machine, which also allows othere processes to check for that file and do special stuff..... or something.....
[22:24] <slangasek> I propose that we make /etc/initrd-release a symlink to /dev/zero
[22:24] <slangasek> in our initramfs
[22:24] <slangasek> in order to detect software which is misbehaving by using this file in Ubuntu
[22:28] <cjwatson> stgraber: ^- that should be a tidied-up version of bdmurray's ubuntu-release-upgrader upload
[22:29] <stgraber> cjwatson: looking
[22:33] <cjwatson> Rejecting duplicate gnome-desktop3
[22:34] <cjwatson> stgraber: also: come on, grub2 isn't that hard ;-)
[22:35] <iulian> zul: Do you have an FFe for python-novaclient? It seems that not everything is a bug fix. commit 3dd0393fbb looks like a new feature.
[22:36] <doko> klibc and libffado are ftbfs fixes
[22:37] <cjwatson> accepted libffado
[22:37] <cjwatson> klibc is my own so somebody else should do it
[22:38]  * iulian looks.
[22:38] <stgraber> accepted grub2, bug 901600 could have been considered a feature but it's a really nice improvement that'll save us from a lot of other problems we had in the past, so if someone asks, I granted a FFe to that bit.
[22:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 901600 in grub2 "Allow /etc/default/grub overriding via /etc/default/grub.d/" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901600
[22:39] <cjwatson> You could look at it either way; I considered it a bug :-)
[22:40] <iulian> klibc accepted.
[22:42] <doko> Laney, there is a qt4-x11 upload in unapproved without the -g/-gstabs change. maybe reject this one, and add one with it?
[22:43] <cjwatson> I think I already accepted that qt4-x11.
[22:45] <iulian> Yup - Unapproved: accepted qt4-x11 [source] (quantal-proposed) [4:4.8.3+dfsg-0ubuntu2]
[22:51]  * cjwatson lands the final branch for bug 745799, since there seem to be no timeouts
[22:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 745799 in launchpad "DistroSeries:+queue Timeout accepting packages (bug structural subscriptions)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745799
[22:51]  * iulian is off to bed.
[22:51] <iulian> Nighty night.
[22:51] <cjwatson> And plenty of successful async bug closures
[22:51]  * skaet sent email out
[23:14] <skaet> infinity,  I' ve re-enabled the daily crontab, and updated the iso tracker for Daily images.
[23:14] <skaet> when you get a chance,  can you or cjwatson, please turn on the auto discard again?
[23:16]  * skaet notes that kubuntu alternates need to be removed from the crontab source for 12.10.
[23:20] <infinity> skaet: I'll do that, and unset OFFICIAL.
[23:21] <skaet> Thanks.
[23:24] <stgraber> infinity: FYI I reverted etc/default-arches to get Edubuntu building on armhf again
[23:24] <infinity> stgraber: Just now?  Kay.
[23:25] <cjwatson> I accidentally released unity-2d/oneiric a few days early (I didn't notice that it was less aged than unity-2d/precise).  Hopefully that won't cause any problems ...
[23:26] <infinity> cjwatson: unity needs to go with it, hard library dependency.
[23:26] <infinity> cjwatson: Quick, before the publisher runs. :P
[23:26] <cjwatson> Seriously?  FFS.
[23:26] <infinity> SRSLY.
[23:26] <highvoltage> heh, foundations people are funny.
[23:26] <cjwatson> Thanks for the heads-up
[23:27] <cjwatson> It's just a library rename so going early probably isn't a huge deal anyway.
[23:27] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, both were ready and verified, I was going to let them fester until Mondy on the off chance someone found a regression, but it seems unlikely.
[23:28] <cjwatson> (Well, unity is a bit more I think)
[23:28] <cjwatson> unity/oneiric released now too.
[23:28] <infinity> unity was basically just the rename too.
[23:28] <infinity> It just looks bigger because a patch moved from debian/ to upstream.
[23:28] <xnox> It's like me and slangasek. xnox: "I merged mumble, I hope it will not sabotage the team call." slangasek: "Dude, have you seen the pending debian tech committee dispute on mumble?! It's brakes the world."
[23:32] <cjwatson> BTW I think I've reviewed everything in the queue I have the stomach for at the moment.
[23:34] <infinity> cjwatson: All good.  I'm going to do a few/bunch more before I have to shower and head out of the night.
[23:34] <infinity> s/of/for/
[23:35] <infinity> Also, I think I'm going to just leave OFFICIAL set to Beta until we move on to Release in a couple weeks.
[23:35] <cjwatson> Above grub2 is the amd64 binary requiring UEFI approval, in case anyone's confused by queuebot.
[23:37] <infinity> apw: Oh look, need a new lowlatency --^
[23:37] <infinity> apw: (You should sort out how to give me commit to that branch, and I'll do some of the bumps)
[23:39] <skaet> infinity,  I was wondering about OFFICIAL a bit earlier,  and yeah,  not fussed at leaving it at Beta until we move to release, unless someone has a good reason why it shouldn't.
[23:41] <cjwatson> Right.  ubiquity upload, then bed.
[23:41] <ogasawara> when someone has a moment, could I get that new kernel (and meta package) approved in the queue?
[23:50] <slangasek> fwiw I've looked at the glibmm2.4 in the queue and think I see a problem with it
[23:50] <slangasek> leaving it in the queue for now, taking to #ubuntu-devel for discussion with robert_ancell
[23:52] <stgraber> I'll take ubiquity
[23:52] <cjwatson> Lots of uninstallability right now due to atk1.0 arch skew
[23:52] <cjwatson> I'll do a bit of rescoring for that
[23:53] <infinity> ogasawara: I'm on the kernel.
[23:53] <cjwatson> amd64 and armhf should clear themselves up shortly now that i386 has built
[23:53] <infinity> slangasek: Want to poke jdstrand for a security audit of your pam module in NEW?
[23:54] <infinity> Or, I suppose I can.
[23:54] <infinity> jdstrand: Care to audit slangasek's pam module in quantal/new?
[23:54] <infinity> jdstrand: I've given it an FFe exception pending review.
[23:56] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm, the UEFI blob doesn't actually show in the queue, that's annoying.
[23:56] <cjwatson>          | * grub2_2.00-7ubuntu1_amd64.tar.gz Format: uefi
[23:56] <infinity> cjwatson: (Sorry, in the web UI)
[23:57] <cjwatson> Ah, that broken POS
[23:57] <infinity> Heh.
[23:57] <cjwatson> You can't really review the blob anyway - the assurance is that the source diff isn't evil
[23:57] <cjwatson> Anyway, it is in the web UI, just not labelled as uefi
[23:57] <infinity> Also, were we going to land an i386 solution too, or are we assuming that all UEFI systems we care about will be amd64?
[23:57] <cjwatson> grub2_2.00-7ubuntu1_amd64.tar.gz (250.1 KiB)
[23:58] <cjwatson> My levels of caring about i386 UEFI are very low
[23:58] <cjwatson> At some point somebody will probably make me care for Atom or something
[23:58] <cjwatson> But at the moment ... meh
[23:58] <infinity> cjwatson: oh, indeed, I misread that as the orig.  I think it's been one of those days.
[23:58] <cjwatson> I won't claim the naming is intuitive.
[23:59] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, having uefi in the name, like translations.tar.gz, might be helpful.
[23:59] <cjwatson> Yeah.  I think that would need LP code changes.
[23:59] <cjwatson> Maybe.


[06:44] <andrewlsd> Morning #ubuntu-za
[06:48] <nsnzero> morning andrewlsd
[06:48] <andrewlsd> \o nsnzero
[07:17] <theblazehen> Hi all
[07:18] <andrewlsd> o/ theblazehen
[07:38] <Kilos> morning andrewlsd paddatrapper nsnzero smile divansantana_ ambo theblazehen thatgraemeguy tumbleweed and other lurking types
[07:38] <Kilos> oh and of course old inetpro
[07:39] <Kilos> and MaNI
[07:39] <inetpro> oh hi Kilos
[07:39] <Kilos> haha
[07:39] <inetpro> and good mornings to all else
[07:40] <Kilos> running the router off the ups works, now just still to see how long it can power a batteryless lappy and the router
[07:41] <thatgraemeguy> morning peoples
[07:47] <pavlushka> Mornings
[07:47] <pavlushka> :p
[07:48] <paddatrapper> Morning Kilos, inetpro, thatgraemeguy, pavlushka
[07:49] <pavlushka> Hey paddatrapper, how is it going?
[07:52] <andrewlsd> Morning Kilos thatgraemeguy pavlushka pavlushka inetpro
[08:03] <Kilos> hmm... stuttering a bit there
[08:10] <theblazehen> Can I just brag for a second here? http://imgur.com/a/hI95e Maybe it isn't that impressive, but it is for me
[08:11] <theblazehen> Took most of my afternoon yesterday to get it working though...
[08:13] <magespawn> good morning all
[08:13] <theblazehen> hi magespawn
[08:40] <nsnzero> awesome stuff theblazehen - but what is it ?
[08:41] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Shellcode execution from a buffer overflow :D
[08:43] <theblazehen> Basically just a NOP sled, then my code, then overwriting the return address of the strcpy into my buffer, (Think it was the strcpy at least, pretty sure it was)
[08:43] <theblazehen> I never though I'd ever get to writing assembly myself... Nevermind exploting a buffer overflow with it
[08:44] <nsnzero> now i see it .... impressive indeed
[08:44] <theblazehen> ty nsnzero :)
[08:45] <theblazehen> nsnzero: It's just level 2 of http://overthewire.org/wargames/narnia though, and with ASLR, stack protection, etc disabled
[08:47] <theblazehen> Still, from having no experience with assembly, except for "This looks hard...", to getting it to run by exploiting a buffer overflow is kinda cool
[08:58] <magespawn> hi theblazehen, does it gain you a privilage escalation?
[08:59] <theblazehen> hi magespawn. If it's a setuid binary (which it is), yes. Or if you have a restricted shell it could give you an unrestricted shell if it isn't setuid. Or if you have a sudoers rule for that single application
[09:01] <theblazehen> You can see how I was narnia2, binary was setuid narnia3, and I became narnia3
[09:53] <magespawn> theblazehen: i did not see the original post :)
[09:58] <nsnzero> theblazehen: thats a nice tutorial site btw - do you need to sign up first to play ?
[09:58] <nsnzero> hi magespawn
[10:03] <magespawn> hi nsnzero
[10:16] <magespawn> theblazehen: can you repost the original link.
[10:31] <nsnzero> http://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/bandit0.html
[10:31] <nsnzero> there magespawn
[11:35] <pavlushka> andrewlsd: Good day andrewlsd :)
[12:16] <nsnzero> have a good afternoon everyone
[17:34] <nsnzero> evening folks
[17:38] <inetpro> hi nsnzero
[17:38] <nsnzero> good evening inetpro
[18:13] <Langjan> Hello, how is everybody
[18:16] <nsnzero> hi Langjan
[18:16] <nsnzero> doing well and yourself Langjan ?
[18:18] <Langjan> Good, also well thks nsnzero
[18:24] <nsnzero> good to hear that Langjan
[18:25] <Langjan> Thks nsnzero, much to be grateful for
[18:26] <Langjan> You there Kilos? And hi inetpro, chesedo, pavlushka, smile, theblazehen
[18:27] <Langjan> and paddatrapper
[18:27] <smile> hi Langjan
[18:27] <Langjan> hi young man
[18:28] <smile> Hi old man
[18:28] <Langjan> lmga!
[18:28] <Langjan> Wie's jou ou man jou klein parmant!
[18:29] <Langjan> Only turning 74 in a few days man
[18:31] <nsnzero> still young Langjan
[18:33] <Langjan> Yes, young at heart nsnzero
[18:34] <Langjan> Where's my pal Kilos - no sheep to chase in Rustenburg
[18:35] <Langjan> Verstaan jy Afrikaans smile ?
[18:36] <smile> Langjan: I'm only 21 (for now)
[18:36] <smile> Langjan: ja, ek verstaan Afrikaans, hoekom vraag jy?
[18:37] <Langjan> Net gewonder oor jy so stil is
[18:37] <smile> hehe
[18:37] <smile> Ek verstaan parmant ni, maar ek weet wa jy bedoel hêt
[18:37] <Langjan> lmga, jys dieselfde ouderdom as my oudste kleinkind
[18:37] <Langjan> means cheeky
[18:37] <smile> omg o.O
[18:38] <smile> I'm cheeky o.O
[18:38] <smile> I was just stating the obvious.
[18:38] <smile> You're old, I'm young.
[18:38] <Langjan> Just pulling your leg young man
[18:38] <smile> Don't, it hurts enough already
[18:38] <smile> :P
[18:39] <Langjan> To be young?
[18:39] <Langjan> hurts? Why
[18:39] <smile> It doesn't hurt to be young, it hurts because I went badmintonning for over 2 hours :P
[18:39] <Langjan> oh ok good
[18:40] <smile> nah XD
[18:40] <Langjan> Great game
[18:40] <smile> I lost :P
[18:40] <smile> So not so great either
[18:40] <Langjan> well next time...
[18:41] <smile> :D
[18:41] <Langjan> somebody has to lose so someone else can win, we all have our days
[18:41] <smile> when's my day?
[18:41] <Langjan> When you win
[18:42] <smile> When do I win?
[18:42] <Langjan> When it's your day
[18:42] <smile> Seems like a circular reference to me.
[18:43] <smile> A stack overflow will soon follow.
[18:43] <Langjan> lmga, and when you've practised enough
[18:43] <smile> In software, a stack overflow occurs if the call stack pointer exceeds the stack bound. The call stack may consist of a limited amount of address space, often determined at the start of the program. The size of the call stack depends on many factors, including the programming language, machine architecture, multi-threading, and amount of available memory.
[18:43] <smile> = you run out of memory
[18:44] <Langjan> phew!
[18:44] <Langjan> glad I'm not in software
[18:45] <smile> I do understand what's being sad, but I hardly ever need that knowledge to do my job
[18:45] <smile> * said
[18:45] <Langjan> All I know is I'm running at 4% CPU usage and 38% free memory
[18:46] <smile> That means you will reach a stackoverflow soon after you fill another 62% of your memory :P
[18:46] <Langjan> Which will hopefully never happen
[18:48] <MaNI> you don't need to exhaust your entire computers memory to have a stack overflow
[18:48] <smile> Yeah. And if it does, you reach out to me and I'll just say "buy some more memory"
[18:48] <smile> MaNI: true, but if you do, it's far more likely
[18:49] <MaNI> not really, most programs have a fixed stack size thats measured in mbs
[18:49] <MaNI> e.g. on windows with MSVC compiler by default a c++ program will have a stack limit of 1Mb
[18:50] <MaNI> if the program exceeds 1Mb on the stack there will be an overflow
[18:50] <smile> but you can increase it before a stack overflow occurs, right?
[18:50] <smile> that's where malloc/alloc/... comes in?
[18:50] <MaNI> no it's usually a fixed limit set at compile time
[18:50] <MaNI> most large memory allocations are not done on the stack malloc/alloc allocates on the heap not on the stack
[18:50] <smile> Okay. I do agree with you
[18:51] <MaNI> stack overflow is usually a result of unbounded recursion
[18:51] <smile> Correct. :)
[18:52] <smile> That's the way I make those usually
[18:52] <smile> But I don't make that error often
[18:52] <smile> But sometimes you're trying to do something crazy
[18:53] <Langjan> smile, is your calculation correct? Do I not reach stack overflow if I use up 38% more memory?
[18:54] <smile> Langjan: If you want to freeze your computer, you should use all available memory
[18:54] <MaNI> ulimit -s 8192 - thats the default stack size for a linux program by the way, which is 8x larger than the windows default but still incredibly easy to exhaust
[18:54] <smile> nice
[18:55] <Langjan> I understand that but not your figure of 62%
[18:55] <smile> Langjan: probably my calculation doesn't even make sense :P
[18:55] <smile> MaNI: does that mean a Linux program uses that memory if it doesn't need it?
[18:56] <MaNI> it's a maximum so it doesn't have to be available at launch - AFAIK, I'm not sure if in practice it is or isn't though
[18:57] <MaNI> quite possibly
[18:57] <nsnzero> linux is designed to prevent memory getting full - its will swapped out ram and then kill userspace apps
[19:00] <nsnzero> MaNI: isnt the stack just a temp storage for return addresses from loops and subroutines ?
[19:00] <MaNI> call stack, temporary variables etc.
[19:01] <Langjan> OK guys you're way above my head, let me leave you to it
[19:02] <Langjan> take care and watch out for the pretty girls smile
[19:02] <smile> Langjan: I'm in the process of catching one
[19:02] <smile> good night!
[19:02] <MaNI> I've only once ever in my programming career found a legitimate reason to mess around with the stack size of a program - as opposed to just fixing a bug like too much recursion, 8Mb is usually more than sufficient for a properly designed program :)
[19:02] <Langjan> well dont say you were not warned
[19:02] <smile> MaNI: when was that?
[19:02] <smile> Langjan: lol
[19:03] <Langjan> good luck my friend
[19:03] <smile> thanks
[19:03] <nsnzero> take care Langjan
[19:04] <Langjan> go well nsnzero and smile, plse give Kilos  my regards if and when he wakes up
[19:04] <smile> sure
[19:05] <Langjan> Tell him I have not broken anything for a while, maybe its time...lmga!
[19:05] <nsnzero> nowdays the stack and other low level memory fiddling isnt necessary with compilers having memmory management builtin
[19:05] <nsnzero> i was just going to ask you Langjan - : "whats need fixing ?"
[19:05] <MaNI> For a FSN parser I wrote for a specific project using boost::xpressive - because xpressive uses templates and is quite complex, and the parser rules themselves were very complex, and recursed quite a bit, it was easily exhausting stack space. Because it was special purpose code it was better to increase the stack size than to rewrite the code and/or slow it down by reducing stack allocation.
[19:06] <Langjan> Only Kilos's kde nsnzero!
[19:06] <smile> MaNI: well done :)
[19:06] <nsnzero> c++ mani -> its so complex
[19:07] <Kilos> im here
[19:07] <Kilos> ai!
[19:08] <nsnzero> evening Kilos - you just missed lanjan
[19:08] <smile> Kilos: you have the greetings from Langjan :P
[19:08] <Kilos> yes i see so
[19:09] <Kilos> ill mail him ty nsnzero
[19:09] <smile> He warned me about pretty girls, is he right?
[19:09] <Kilos> lol
[19:11] <nsnzero> how you doing Kilos ?
[19:15] <nsnzero> i just learnt the benefits of using ssh-agent together with ssh-add - no need to type pass phrases over and over again
[19:38] <nsnzero> good night all
[21:05] <smile> Good night :-)


[07:23] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:23] <willcooke> hey seb128
[07:23] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[07:23] <seb128> hey willcooke
[07:24] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:24] <seb128> lut pitti, ça va bien ?
[07:26] <pitti> seb128: oui, merci -- mais j'attends avec impatience le weekend, pour que je peux dormir :)
[07:26] <seb128> pitti, moi c'est pareil !
[07:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, hello
[07:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
[07:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, good, yourself?
[07:26] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[07:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, what are you working on those days? ;-)
[07:26] <robert_ancell> I hope you are all enjoying a beer at the present like I am :)
[07:27] <pitti> eww, beer in the morning! :-)
[07:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, lightdm, mps, u-s-d
[07:27] <seb128> haha
[07:27] <seb128> friday evening for the lucky ones!
[07:27] <robert_ancell> will cycle back to gtk-mir next week and see if I can make anymore headway on that
[07:28] <seb128> the utopic version works less nicely than the demo we had in Malta here
[07:28] <seb128> could be due to Mir
[07:28] <seb128> like I can't type in gedit
[07:28] <seb128> nor open menus
[07:29] <robert_ancell> yeah, the goalposts might have moved
[07:29] <robert_ancell> Malta was a pretty tuned hack
[07:30] <RAOF> The things that bumped GTK support from the front of my queue are almost resolved, and the groundwork for it has already been merged.
[07:31] <willcooke> Does anyone know if the session unlock issue is going to get a fix on the Desktop Next image any time soon?
[07:31] <RAOF> So Mir might be more able to support GTK better in the not too distant future.
[07:31] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yay!
[07:31] <seb128> willcooke, it should be fixed with https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-016/ you can opt in to try it
[07:32] <willcooke> thx seb128
[07:32] <seb128> RAOF, nice
[07:32] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw did you see that Laney had issues with your u-s-d/gnome-desktop changes?
[07:32] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I've only started looking at them, hopefully will resolve early next week
[07:32] <robert_ancell> I don't think they
[07:33] <robert_ancell> 're a big problem, just some detail to track down
[07:33] <seb128> right
[07:33] <seb128> things is that ff was yesterday
[07:34] <seb128> but well, I guess we can get an exception for that landing
[07:34] <seb128> (the Ubuntu GNOME team really want the updated gnome-desktop in)
[07:36] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I figured it's not worth rushing
[07:36] <seb128> right, still might be good to put high on the todolist
[07:36] <robert_ancell> first thing next wekk
[07:36] <robert_ancell> week
[07:36] <seb128> thanks
[07:39] <robert_ancell> seb128, anything else high prio?
[07:39] <seb128> not that I can think about, no
[07:39] <seb128> GTK Mir ;-)
[07:39] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, we can land the idle part of the u-s-d mp right?
[07:40] <robert_ancell> I had a look at doing the process myself but we seemed to be in TRAINWRECK0 or something
[07:42] <willcooke> ok, I give up.  What changed in sshd config in Utopic? Why can't I just ssh in?
[07:43] <seb128> ssh in what?
[07:43] <willcooke> I want to ssh in to my touchscreen laptop to add that ppa
[07:43] <seb128> robert_ancell, u-s-d, isn't that what laney had symbol conflict issues with?
[07:43] <seb128> willcooke, hum, unsure, the phone config stuff changes but desktop shouldn't
[07:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, with the RandR stuff, but not the Idle stuff afaik.
[07:44] <robert_ancell> Laney, confirm?
[07:46] <seb128> robert_ancell, saw https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/xrandr/+merge/224548/comments/561618 ?
[07:47] <seb128> next comment as well on the same mr
[07:47] <robert_ancell> seb128, ah, he's tried the other branch there I guess
[07:47] <willcooke> hrm.  I removed and re-added ssh, now it works.  I'll try and recreate and open a bug
[07:47] <seb128> k
[07:51] <willcooke> seb128, it works, it works, it works!!!  Woohoo!
[07:55] <seb128> yeah \o/
[08:00] <willcooke> hey larsu - shall we have our weekly meeting?
[08:00] <larsu> willcooke: I was just about to write the same :)
[08:00] <willcooke> :D
[08:20] <willcooke> seb128, I will be in and out a bit today.  I'm still coughing a lot and might go back to bed for a few hours
[08:22] <seb128> willcooke, ok, get better!
[08:23] <seb128> is that still the same cold since China?
[08:23] <seb128> or did you just got another one after getting over the first one?.
[08:24] <willcooke> seb128, different one.  I was getting over the China one on the last day there.  Then I got home and my son had a cough, we took him to the Dr's and they said he had tonsillitis and not to let him cough on you.
[08:24] <willcooke> but he's six
[08:24] <willcooke> so he doesnt cover his mouth when he coughs
[08:24] <willcooke> (despite me telling him to)
[08:25] <willcooke> and now I have the same thing :(
[08:25] <willcooke> is Google calendar down for anyone else?
[08:25] <seb128> :-(
[08:25] <seb128> calendar is working for me
[08:25] <willcooke> popey, is Gcal working for you?
[08:26] <willcooke> (assuming Laney is on the road)
[08:26] <seb128> (yeah, he should be)
[08:34] <popey> willcooke: yes.
[08:35] <willcooke> yes = broken popey ?
[08:35] <willcooke> *broken, popey
[08:36] <popey> eh
[08:36] <popey> 09:25:57 < willcooke> popey, is Gcal working for you?
[08:36] <popey> 09:34:40 < popey> willcooke: yes.
[08:36] <popey> no, no, no, no, no.... yes.
[08:36] <willcooke> :D
[08:37] <willcooke> well darn.
[08:37] <willcooke> why isnt it working for me
[08:37] <willcooke> maybe some new cookies
[08:37] <popey> Have you tried rebooting?
[08:38] <willcooke> and now it works
[08:38] <willcooke> clear cookies
[08:39] <seb128> popey, rebooting? it's not win95 here
[08:39] <willcooke> \o/
[08:40] <willcooke> So, the Inspiron 3137
[08:40] <willcooke> I don't like the keyboard
[08:40] <willcooke> and I don't like the glossy screen
[08:40] <willcooke> but I *love* it
[08:40] <willcooke> the laptop is really nice.  Quite fast with an SSD, U8 works nicely
[08:41] <seb128> do they make touch screens which are not glossy?
[08:41] <willcooke> good point
[08:41] <seb128> or does touch need to be glass that is glossy by definition?
[08:41] <larsu> it doesn't have to be, but they need more robust surfaces for touch
[08:41] <larsu> so they usually go with something glassy
[08:41] <larsu> also, most people prefer the look
[08:42] <seb128> do they have non glassy surfaces that work and are cheap enough?
[08:42] <willcooke> you can get not glossy glass, e.g. in picture frames you can get non-reflective glass, but it costs $$$$$$$
[08:42] <willcooke> and is also witch craft
[08:43] <larsu> ah - they also use those for glasses, right?
[08:43] <willcooke> ahh, yes - good point
[08:47] <popey> seb128: it's a joke ☻
[08:48] <popey> (there is a UK situation comedy involving computer helpdesk workers who use 'have you tried rebooting' as their first suggestion every time)
[08:48] <seb128> popey, oh, the it crowd
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks showed me some episods
[08:49] <seb128> ;-)
[08:50]  * ochosi always wondered if an it girl was part of an it crowd
[08:50] <popey> ☻
[08:51] <willcooke> :D
[09:02] <willcooke> seb128, FYI Monday is a public holiday in the UK
[09:02] <seb128> willcooke, ok, enjoy it!
[09:14] <tjaalton> is there a capplet for fonts anymore?
[09:14] <tjaalton> font scaling in utopic seems regressed
[09:18] <tjaalton> or maybe the default font size just got bumped?
[09:19] <seb128> nothing should have changed, and no there is no capplet since GNOME3
[09:21] <tjaalton> i have a test system with a 3200x1800 panel, and with default scaling things look tiny
[09:21] <tjaalton> so I had it bumped to 1.5 so that dash icons are bigger and font readable
[09:22] <tjaalton> but now after upgrade the fonts  got even bigger
[09:22] <seb128> weird, we didn't change much in the gnome and unity stacks
[09:23] <seb128> bregma might know about the issue
[09:23] <tjaalton> the capplet icon size didn't change, but the captions did so the text doesn't fit under the icon
[09:24] <tjaalton> but I guess those icons don't scale
[11:42] <bregma> tjaalton, that weird font scaling problem is caused by *something* setting the Large Text accessibility option when the Gnome text scaling factor is increased -- and we haven't identified the culprit yet
[11:42] <bregma> you can turn it off again in the control center then roll the dice the next time you start a new session
[11:42] <seb128> bregma, that something is likely the settings daemon
[11:42] <seb128> or unity
[11:43] <tjaalton> bregma: ah, ok
[11:43] <seb128> nothing else play with settings on session start
[11:43] <tjaalton> good to know
[11:45] <bregma> it's not Unity, but there's definitely a race during startup because sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes the text starts out OK and then suddenly jumps bigger
[11:46] <bregma> it's the last scaling bug we know about that hasn't been fixed yet
[14:04] <qengho> cyphermox: bonjour!  Verify this please?  https://code.launchpad.net/~cmiller/ubuntu/utopic/urfkill/lp1357576-segv-formatstring/+merge/231897
[14:04] <cyphermox> gladly
[14:05] <cyphermox> fail
[14:05] <cyphermox> I fail
[14:06] <qengho> cyphermox: I'm kind of alarmed the "hardening wrapper"  bit didn't raise an compilation error at that.  :\
[14:06] <cyphermox> hehe
[14:07] <cyphermox> hardening-wrapper is something that needs to go from this package too; there are other ways
[14:07] <cyphermox> so, looks good; with the only exception that we could also just remove the patch
[14:08] <cyphermox> do you need me to sponsor it or can you upload it?
[14:08] <qengho> cyphermox: please sponsor.
[14:10] <cyphermox> np
[14:29] <cyphermox> qengho: I added the change for hardening; I'm uploading as soon as sbuild returns
[14:29] <qengho> ack.