[06:41] <pitti> Riddell: what about lipstik and gpgsm? is it also needed for the preview release?
[06:41] <jordi> Kamion: yes.
[06:42] <jordi> Kamion: build-depends changed, libncursesw5-dev added, but -tiny/-udeb still builds with slang
[06:42] <Riddell> pitti: no to gpgsm, lipstik would be nice (so we can track down kubuntu screenshots)
[06:42] <mdz> elmo: available for some seed syncage?
[06:42] <pitti> Riddell: okay, I start with the non-encryption ones now
[06:45] <jordi> Kamion: it doesn't affect nano udeb in the sense that it's going to suck for utf-8 still
[06:45] <mvo> mdz: I'll have a look into aptitude, I'm pretty confident that it's not too hard
[06:46] <Kamion> jordi: ok
[06:46] <Kamion> jordi: fair enough
[06:47] <thom> seb128: bleah, i dunno
[06:47] <thom> seb128: i blame bugzilla
[06:47] <jordi> Kamion: who knows if I could improve that too
[06:49] <mdz> pitti: actually the kubuntu situation was much simpler than I thought; most of the new packages were simply new binaries of existing source that we had in main
[06:49] <mdz> pitti: so we don't need any more review
[06:50] <pitti> mdz: just finished OpenSLP security update, I will now look at the debs nevertheless :-)
[06:50] <mdz> pitti: the only new source was a theme :-)
[06:50] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:52] <pitti> mdz: indeed; shouldn't that be handled through germinate automatically?
[06:52] <Riddell> pitti: feel free to move onto the encryption packages in that case :)
[06:52] <pitti> sure
[06:53] <seb128> thom: you blame bugzilla, but "CD player viciously steals focus" for #7792 and "gnome-cd viciously steals focus." for #7793 :)
[06:53] <seb128> thom: perhaps you should rather blame firefox :)
[06:54] <mdz> ogra: shouldn't hwdb-client depend on hal?
[06:54] <ogra> hmm, good idea...
[06:54] <ogra> i'll add it
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: germinate only tells us which packages are in the list, not whether or not they are from new source
[06:54] <pitti> Riddell, mdz: libktnef1 * libkcal2a * akregator * networkstatus debs are fine
[06:55] <pitti> mdz: I meant, shouldn't the debs be automatically propagated to main?
[06:55] <thom> seb128: naw, bugzilla didn't respond *at all* the first couple of times i submitted it
[06:55] <seb128> bugzilla did apparently, firefox didn't :p
[06:55] <Kamion> pitti: no
[06:56] <Kamion> pitti: germinate says "please put this in main"; it doesn't automatically move the binaries into main
[06:56] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:56] <Kamion> pitti: hence mdz's periodic "seed syncage" conversations with elmo
[06:57] <pitti> makes sense
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: STRUCTURE should be identical in ubuntu and kubuntu, right?
[06:58] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[06:58] <jordi> Kamion: people.debian.org/~jordi/nano has i386 binaries and source. If you find it's good enough, I can push David to release 1.3.6 or do a cleaned up version without a messy changelog.
[06:59] <mdz> Kamion: it looks like they were added separately, so they have different file IDs and this creates a conflict
[06:59] <mdz> Kamion: OK to remove the kubuntu one and merge the ubuntu one instead?
[06:59] <Kamion> mdz: preliminary announcement text in http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/array-cd-7
[06:59] <Kamion> mdz: good point, yes
[06:59] <Kamion> I just did 'baz add' everywhere and forgot about the peculiarities
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: have you finished your tests?
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion: ah, yes, sorry.  powerpc-install is good
[07:00] <mdz> 5x5
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: ok, will publish then if no objections
[07:01] <mdz> none
[07:01] <mdz> array 7 looks great
[07:01] <mdz> thanks Kamion, fabbione, daniels
[07:01] <Kamion> hooray
[07:02] <ogra> yay
[07:04] <mdz> Kamion: I just merged ubuntu->kubuntu seeds again; since apparently I botched the installer stuff the last time, please take a look at it if you have a chance
[07:04] <mdz> it looked entirely sane to me, though
[07:04] <Kamion> mdz: I just checked with diff, as long as they're the same it should be fine
[07:06] <Burgundavia> seb128: ping
[07:06] <Kamion> mdz: looks fine
[07:06] <lamont> mdz: thoughts on the other window when you have time
[07:06] <lamont> robtaylor: any news on that bind patch and your issue?
[07:07] <mdz> lamont: saw it, will get there.  lots of more pressing issues right now
[07:07] <lamont> np.
[07:07] <lamont> just wasn't sure if it was off the edge of the screen or something
[07:09] <seb128> Burgundavia: pong ?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> seb128: regarding bug7455, the xchat one
[07:09] <lamont> Kamion: guess this means I can upload my e2fsprogs fix then?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> seb128: I think we are not understanding each other
[07:09] <Kamion> lamont: yep
[07:10] <Kamion> back to normal feature freeze status now
[07:10] <dholbach> re
[07:10] <Kamion> thanks for people's patience while the CDs got done
[07:10] <seb128> Burgundavia: why ?
[07:10] <Treenaks> 3
[07:10] <Treenaks> hm
[07:11] <Burgundavia> seb128: I just reopened that bug, as it is one, IMHO
[07:11] <seb128> grrrr
[07:11] <kent> seb128, hello. Its me who reported the bug with gthumb. I can try with cvs version of it and see if it fixes my problem, but could you be so kind to tell me the line for cvs to download gthumb? I cant find any information on the sourceforge-page about how to get it via cvs. I have used cvs once or twise before, but I cant figure out how to fetch gthumb from cvs though. :(
[07:11] <seb128> kent: I'll do a package and put it online if you want ... do you have a i386 ?
[07:12] <seb128> Burgundavia: first the screen doesn't come every time, that's an option
[07:12] <seb128> Burgundavia: second that's a property window (user, server, etc) so it follows the HIG
[07:13] <kent> seb128, yes. i386.
[07:13] <seb128> Burgundavia: and you don't provide any good argument out of the fact that you prefer it the other way, which doesn't make a bug
[07:14] <seb128> Burgundavia: the argument of the same software is not good, open gedit's properties and look on the button
[07:15] <seb128> or epiphany
[07:15] <seb128> or whatever other GNOME app
[07:15] <lamont> Pre-Depends: ${mount:Depends}
[07:15] <lamont> that just says 'make mount pre-depend on everything that it should Depend: on'?
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: Common workflow is when the right most button is the one to make it go away. However, in this case we have 2 buttons to "make it go away". However, 95% of the time, the user wants to chat, and thus needs the connect button. The difference between this property windows and those others is that this is shown *before* the app is launched, and thus going away needs to make the app launch
[07:16] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's your usecase
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: yes
[07:16] <seb128> Burgundavia: I only open this dialog to make change and close it then
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: but the dialog comes up before launching the rest of xchat, no?
[07:16] <seb128> opening it every time you run xchat is no sense
[07:17] <seb128> usually people auto-login
[07:17] <seb128> no
[07:17] <seb128> that's a box to check
[07:17] <Burgundavia> I see the box
[07:18] <Kamion> lamont: only if you've a mount:Depends substvar
[07:18] <Burgundavia> What I am saying is this is special properties windows, that usually appears before the app, and thus needs to be treated differently
[07:18] <seb128> lamont: any idea of why gst-plugins0.8 doesn't promote the require Build-Depends to main to build ?
[07:18] <Kamion> lamont: dpkg-dev doesn't create one by default, but your debian/rules might
[07:18] <thom> seb128: is there a reliable way to check wheteher a user has a gnome deskopt running?
[07:18] <lamont> Kamion: I didn't see it create one...
[07:18] <seb128> thom: not afaik
[07:19] <seb128> thom: ugly stuff like looking for gnome-panel running ? :p
[07:19] <ogra> thom, ps ax|grep gnome-session ?
[07:19] <seb128> Burgundavia: there is no "special properties windows"
[07:19] <thom> ogra: no
[07:19] <thom> ogra: it can be x-session-manager, too
[07:19] <ogra> ah, just tried...
[07:19] <thom> (my laptop is x-s-m and my desktop is g-s)
[07:20] <seb128> thom: gnome-panel ?
[07:20] <pitti> Riddell: the packaging of openct really has some bugs...
[07:20] <thom> yeah, panel might be my best bet
[07:20] <lamont> seb128: it's not automatic, you see...
[07:20] <lamont> the correct process is: get approval, update the seeds, get elmo to promote it, then upload.
[07:20] <lamont> or something like that.
[07:20] <ogra> seb128, gnmoe-smproxy ?
[07:20] <ogra> argh
[07:21] <lamont> otherwise you get the looping-annoy-lamont byDate/today.html
[07:21] <ogra> gnome-smproxy
[07:21] <seb128> lamont: mdz said that the depends are automatically promoted IIRC
[07:21] <lamont> seb128: in the report, that's true
[07:21] <dholbach> thom: you get an indicator by using     ps ax | grep -E "(gnome-panel|gnome-sesion|..|..|..)" | wc -l       :-)
[07:21] <seb128> ie: no need to update a seed
[07:21] <lamont> and then the muppet does his magic behind the curtains, and it's there in the archive
[07:21] <seb128> oh, k
[07:21] <lamont> right - if it's only there because of build-deps, true
[07:22] <seb128> I don't care of the "behind the curtains"
[07:22] <seb128> as far as it work :)
[07:22] <thom> dholbach: useful in a script :P ;-)
[07:22] <Riddell> pitti: hmm, card terminal drivers, suspect we manage without that
[07:22] <seb128> the current issue is gst-plugins0.8
[07:22] <lamont> right.  the gst-plugins0.8 package needs a little muppet-love before it'll build
[07:22] <lamont> and then it'll just happen
[07:23] <ogra> thom, i would look for gnome-smproxy, it should get started by gnome-session
[07:23] <Burgundavia> seb128: To me, the next logical thing should be the right most button. Most apps are laid out like that. Thus for most property windows, closing them is the next most logical thing to do. It is not for this case.
[07:23] <lamont> Kamion: subst-vars has to be doing it - the only occurance of 'vars' in debian/rules is removing substvars...
[07:23] <seb128> Burgundavia: for me I open xchat, it autologins and I open only this window to do some changes then close it
[07:24] <seb128> so the dialog is right
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: but the window opens by default and sits there until you do something
[07:24] <seb128> not my problem
[07:24] <seb128> argue with upstream, or jdub or whatever
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: ok
[07:24] <Kamion> lamont: that's not conclusive :)
[07:24] <Kamion> lamont: try grepping for mount:Depends
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: can we leave the bug open and I will open a bug upstream
[07:24] <seb128> I close the bug, I've enough with 450 in my list without keeping bugs that I'm not going to close
[07:25] <Burgundavia> seb128: ok
[07:25] <seb128> no
[07:25] <seb128> that's not a bug
[07:25] <lamont> Kamion: only the debian/control line
[07:25] <seb128> argue upstream but there is no interest to keep it open in bugzilla
[07:25] <Kamion> lamont: is this in uploaded util-linux? I'll have a look
[07:25] <lamont> yeah
[07:25] <lamont> my specific quandry is that I'm trying to add a version to one of it's depends...
[07:27] <Kamion> lamont: you're using dpkg-shlibdeps -pmount, etc.
[07:27] <Kamion> lamont: that causes dpkg-shlibdeps to write out a mount:Depends substvar rather than the default shlibs:Depends
[07:27] <lamont> yeah
[07:27] <lamont> ah, way cool
[07:28] <Kamion> lamont: debian/shlibs.local would be the traditional way to override that
[07:28] <pitti> Riddell: opensc has several libraries in one deb, too
[07:28] <lamont> you mean what it was doing, or what I want it to do?
[07:28] <Kamion> if something's already mentioned in shlibdeps, but you want a newer version
[07:28] <Kamion> what you want it to do
[07:29] <lamont> and do I need shlibs.local, or mount.local (because of the -pmount)?
[07:30] <Kamion> lamont: shlibs.local; if you want it somewhere else, use -L
[07:30] <lamont> ok
[07:31] <Kamion> frex if you wanted it in just one package, that would be a sensible thing to do
[07:32] <Riddell> pitti: could you add these comments to that wiki page so we don't forget?
[07:32] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: all packages from https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain but openct and opensc are go
[07:33] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: openct and opensc work security-wise, but they ship multiple libs in one deb, which is against our packaging standards
[07:33] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: but if we need them, I accept them, too
[07:34] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: I add a comment to the wiki page
[07:34] <Riddell> pitti: thanks
[07:34] <pitti> Riddell: lipstik is also ookay, I add it
[07:34] <Riddell> amu, mdz: any thoughts?
[07:35] <mdz> Riddell: specifically?
[07:35] <Riddell> mdz: should we accept openct and opensc
[07:35] <haggai> if we moved the libs to packages, would they get through NEW processing reasonably quickly?
[07:37] <mdz> haggai: assuming pitti approves, yes
[07:37] <pitti> haggai: if these are split to separate debs, they have my blessing
[07:37] <mdz> Riddell: what do we gain?
[07:37] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: however, they deal with external hardware, thus if a bug destroys your smartcard, we will have a hard time
[07:38] <pitti> with debugging
[07:38] <Riddell> mdz: gpg support in kmail again
[07:38] <fabbione> haggai: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/openoffice.org2_1.9.76-0ubuntu4_20050315-0125.bz2
[07:38] <pitti> does gpg depend on smartcards?
[07:38] <Riddell> I think leave them out today and we'll look at either removing the need of them from gpgsm or fixing them up
[07:38] <fabbione> haggai: ^^^FTBFS on sparc
[07:38] <mdz> fabbione: ->universe shortly
[07:38] <fabbione> mdz: ok :-)
[07:38] <pitti> Riddell: sounds good
[07:39] <pitti> Riddell: if we can make it work without smartcards, that would rock
[07:39] <pitti> Riddell: so the smartcard stuff can stay in universe
[07:39] <mdz> pitti: what are your thoughts on supporting a gnupg CVS snapshot in addition to the current gnupg?
[07:39] <Riddell> pitti: ok, will make a note to investigate that
[07:39] <pitti> mdz: since it's not setuid any more, we only have algorithmical vulns
[07:40] <pitti> mdz: as a coincidence, we just have a pending gnupg vulnerability
[07:40] <mdz> pitti: yes, but likely not much sympathy from upstream
[07:40] <pitti> mdz: isn't the cvs maintained properly?
[07:40] <pitti> smurfix: what do you think about gnupg2 upstream support?
[07:41] <pitti> mdz: we have the gnupg2 debian maintainer close to us :-)
[07:41] <mdz> pitti: I mean that upstream may not accept responsibility for problems it in since it is unreleased
[07:41] <pitti> oh, right
[07:41] <sivang> pitti: is it you? :)
[07:41] <pitti> sivang: smurfix
[07:41] <sivang> pitti: ah , close enough
[07:42] <smurfix> sivang: ;-)
[07:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping, re: utf8-migration-tool
[07:42] <smurfix> It seems that lately (half year or so) upstream has mostly focused on gnupg1.4
[07:42] <sivang> smurfix: :-)
[07:43] <smurfix> I haven't done a review WRT 1.4 / 1.9 tagged / 1.9 CVS yet -- I should probably do that RSN
[07:43] <pitti> smurfix: so gnupg2 is sort of dead upstream?
[07:43] <jordi> pitti: shouldn't be
[07:44] <pitti> Riddell: is it possible to use kmail with gnupg instead of -2?
[07:44] <smurfix> At the moment, I recommend to stick with 1.4
[07:44] <Riddell> pitti: not sure, amu's been looking after that package.  I would imageine so
[07:44] <smurfix> pitti: yes
[07:45] <smurfix> gnupg 1.4 works rather well with gpg-agent
[07:45] <pitti> okay, then let's do that :-)
[07:45] <smurfix> you just need a "use-agent" in its preferences
[07:45] <smurfix> Caveat: I don't know whether that is true for smartcard support. I already pinged Upstream about that.
[07:46] <pitti> smurfix: oh, we want to try to decouple it from smartcard support anyway
[07:47] <smurfix> pitti: Sure, but if you need to switch background support programs depending on whether the user has a smartcard or not, that'd be uncool
[07:47] <pitti> hmm
[07:47] <pitti> smurfix: we kept out the Nokia communication stuff for the same reason
[07:48] <smurfix> Anyway, I have to go and ubuntuize the neighbor's desktop box now, be back later
[07:49] <mvo> array-7 is out? we can upload again :) ?
[07:51] <Kamion> yep
[07:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong?
[07:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's still missing the C handling, I can upload with that disabled if you want that.  Then it should upgrade cleanly from all locales but C (and give a message saying "sorry, nocando" for C)
[07:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: release candidate is in 13 days and we haven't really tested this at all :-/
[07:53] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[07:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: I know and it's my fault. :(
[07:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'm not entirely confident about making it a part of the default hoary upgrade path
[07:54] <mdz> the current version in Hoary doesn't seem to run for me
[07:54] <mdz> mizar:[~]  utf8migrationtool
[07:54] <mdz> [...] TypeError: category LC_ALL is not supported
[07:54] <Kamion> Mithrandir: release early, release often :)
[07:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I hate to release stuff I know is partially broken
[07:56] <Kamion> if it's an incremental improvement ...
[07:57] <Mithrandir> ok, I'll upload what I have now and hack on the rest on the train tonight
[07:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: does that sound ok?  It's not as good as I hoped to, but it will at least allow some testing
[08:00] <mdz> mvo: still here?
[08:00] <mvo> mdz: yes
[08:00] <mdz> mvo: both workarounds in #7419 sound fine to me; please go ahead
[08:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok.  we need to make a decision in the next few days whether we will use it for Hoary
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: thanks a lot!
[08:01] <mdz> mvo: maybe we should do both :-)
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: hehe :) yeah!
[08:02] <mdz> mvo: we should talk in Mataro about how to handle these issues in the future
[08:02] <mdz> we should make some effort to make the metapackages a better upgrade mechanism (or use something different)
[08:03] <mdz> perhaps for hoary+1 we can have a special upgrade tool which knows about the metapackages
[08:03] <mdz> or do this as part of enhancing update-manager for inter-release upgrades
[08:04] <dholbach> mvo: you were going to Mataro? :-)
[08:04] <mdz> er
[08:04] <mdz> s/mataro/sydney/ of course
[08:04] <dholbach> hihi, nevermind :-)
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: sounds good. update-manager is about to be ready for dist-upgrade, I just don't dare to enable it for hoary
[08:06] <dholbach> mvo: you could add a note: "some packages are about to be removed; to adjust your needs, please run the package manager."
[08:06] <mvo> mdz: this particular problem (gnomemeeting) was caused by libpt-plugins-v4l removed from the main component. if I enable universe the dist-upgrade works smooth
[08:06] <mdz> mvo: interesting
[08:07] <mdz> mvo: so if we put it back in main, that should work too?
[08:07] <mvo> dholbach: I would rather avoid removing packages with the current update-managers UI. it's not really suited for that task
[08:07] <mvo> mdz: yes, I added a fake entry to the packages file and that was good too
[08:07] <Mithrandir> mdz: 0.2 uploaded
[08:08] <dholbach> mvo: i understood, that's why i pointed out you could have a message telling the user, update-manager was about to remove packages
[08:08] <Mithrandir> now I need to pack
[08:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: you travel?
[08:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: going to dk to visit little sister and Fabio
[08:08] <mvo> mvo: I guess  we need to be extra carefull when moving packages between components
[08:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: oh, sounds like fun!
[08:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: if you can test the 0.2 which hits the archive RSN for your rename troubles, I'd appreciate.
[08:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, sure. will do!
[08:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm going to be around on irc and read mail, so just privmsg me or drop me a mail
[08:10] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks! I look forward for a utf-8 clean system :)
[08:10] <Mithrandir> yay
[08:10] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:14] <pitti> mdz: I can't stay much longer here in the uni, and my stomach cries for some food, so I'd like to go home soon; is there anything urgent for me?
[08:17] <mdz> pitti: no, thanks for staying
[08:33] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, that's a fairly common failure mode with some hardware. It's not clear what's going on.
[08:34] <mjg59> thom: Urgh. Why?
[08:34] <Kamion> mjg59: which?
[08:35] <mjg59> Kamion: The Avaratec s-t-r thing
[08:36] <mjg59> thom: Can you add a guard to /etc/acpi/resume.sh that only runs vbetool vbestate if the state file exists?
[08:37] <Kamion> mjg59: right; I don't really understand how resume from s-t-r works, hardware-wise
[08:41] <mjg59> Kamion: In theory, the chipset is woken up, reads a memory address from a register, passes that to the CPU and execution continues from there
[08:41] <mjg59> Then the wakeup code does the job of restoring the registers and putting the CPU in protected mode
[08:42] <medwards_> The wiki entry for LiveCD remastering resembles the "Knoppix way" of starting from a CD image and hacking it.  I was kind of hoping for a reproducible LiveCD build system.
[08:43] <Kamion> lamont: is the live cloop build script you use public anywhere?
[08:44] <medwards_> Is that something I can do from the outside, or is everyone skilled in the art too busy with the Hoary release to coach?  (I would understand.)
[08:45] <medwards_> FWIW, I have built a customized installer around debootstrap previously, so I wouldn't need too much coaching.  :)
[08:48] <Kamion> medwards_: it's basically debootstrap/ubuntu-base, install ubuntu-desktop, install ubuntu-live, build cloop from the result; I think there are a fair few fiddly details in there, though
[08:49] <Kamion> which is why I was wondering if lamont had put his script anywhere, since that's the piece that builds our official live cloops
[08:51] <medwards_> Kamion: how dependent is ubuntu-live on ubuntu-desktop?  I'm hoping to switch from HD-installed autobuilders to LiveCD, and would want to take out a lot of the desktop stuff and put in ecj, etc.
[08:52] <mvo> mdz: I send you a patch for queueing in synaptic a while ago for review. do you want to go with that approach? then I'll upload a new synaptic tomorrow with it
[08:52] <mdz> I haven't had time to review it
[08:53] <mvo> mdz: no problem, I just wanted to ask :)
[08:53] <mdz> it seems risky to change the language-support installation at this late stage
[08:53] <mdz> the current behaviour is at least simple and predictable, and we can document its limitations
[08:54] <mdz> and perhaps tackle it properly for Breezy
[08:54] <Kamion> medwards_: you probably wouldn't want to use ubuntu-live as is any more than you'd want to use ubuntu-desktop as is, then
[08:54] <Kamion> mdz: the current behaviour is a real problem when doing lots of installations at once; two parallel installations made my network unusable here
[08:54] <Kamion> (which is a problem with my CBQ rules, but still)
[08:55] <Kamion> I think we should fix it if at all possible
[08:55] <mdz> Kamion: I'm not convinced it's worth the risk of last-minute feature creep
[08:56] <lamont> Kamion: it's not released
[08:56] <lamont> but I think it's on chinstrap
[08:56] <zul> fyi there is a pretty good chance i wont be online tonight much
[08:57] <medwards_> Kamion: I'm happy to hack on ubuntu-live (it can't possibly be worse than starting from Knoppix); I'm really just wondering if there's a strategy for enabling server-oriented derivative LiveCDs.
[08:57] <mdz> zul: enjoy your evening
[08:57] <Kamion> if lamont is happy to release his script, I think that would be valuable
[08:57] <zul> mdz: thanks...must spend time with the wife ;)
[08:57] <mdz> medwards_: for a server-oriented live CD, you probably want to build it yourself
[08:58] <mdz> medwards_: for variations on ubuntu-live, the instructions in the wiki are quite reasonable
[08:59] <medwards_> Kamion: I've been tracking sid for my base system for over a year, so it's been a lifesaver for me to have a fully baked auto-install CD that I can regenerate with "make clean && make".
[09:00] <medwards_> Kamion: but since various bits of /etc are baked in, it's tied to certain things about the hardware (partition layout, SCSI vs. IDE, etc.)
[09:01] <medwards_> Rebasing it on a LiveCD of some kind would be a win.
[09:01] <mdz> I wonder how our TRLS compares to Linspire
[09:02] <medwards_> mdz: the instructions on the wiki are exactly what they should be; most people are remastering for appearance, maybe to add a few pet packages (Marillat's mplayer?)
[09:02] <Kamion> TRLS?
[09:02] <Kamion> oh, totally rad
[09:02] <mdz> medwards_: right, but it sounds like you want more than that
[09:02] <lamont> TRLS?
[09:03] <mdz> the process to build the CDs from scratch is fairly complex at the moment
[09:03] <ogra> wb dholbach
[09:03] <ogra> *g*
[09:04] <mdz> wow
[09:04] <mdz> mjg59: my Satellite 2545XCDT comes back from STR
[09:04] <mdz> pcmcia ethernet and all
[09:04] <medwards_> mdz: if I can help simplify it (maybe merging in some code I have for following dependency chains associated with goal packages), it might be useful for you.
[09:05] <mdz> medwards_: we have a pretty sophisticated system for that, called "germinate"
[09:05] <mdz> there's some information in the wiki
[09:05] <Kamion> damn, I meant to upload germinate to Hoary
[09:06] <Kamion> might still be able to squeeze that in
[09:06] <medwards_> mdz: yes, I'm impressed; mine's a little different, since it aims at build-depends and tries to do it in overlay stages.
[09:06] <Kamion> medwards_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>in arch
[09:06] <Kamion> does build-deps too :)
[09:07] <Kamion> but I'd certainly be interested to look at other strategies for doing the same thing
[09:07] <medwards_> Kamion: excellent.  Stacking translucent overlays to make a buildd chroot could really help with the whole buildd-corruption thing.
[09:08] <medwards_> How does mini-fo compare with unionfs in that respect?
[09:08] <mjg59> mdz: Excellent
[09:10] <mdz> mjg59: we'll have some pretty rich data coming in from hwdb-client in Hoary, should be a good starting point for a STR whitelist for hoary+1 to enable it out of the box where it works
[09:11] <ogra> mjg59, yeah, we should talk about it once, to make sure i collect the right data for you ;)
[09:11] <lamont> mdz: it's called breezy :-)(
[09:11] <Kamion> medwards_: we don't use mini-fo any more, we use device-mapper snapshotting
[09:11] <lamont> mini-fo bad.  very evil.
[09:11] <Kamion> medwards_: the code's in the casper source package
[09:11] <ogra> mjg59, currently the dmi data is already collected...but i imagine you might like other stuff too
[09:12] <mjg59> lspci would also be good
[09:13] <medwards_> The thing I like about unionfs in principle is that, since it operates above the filesystem level, one can stack, say, jffs2 on a USB stick on top of a squashfs.
[09:13] <mjg59> Kamion: Does d-i have any support for adding different boot options based on DMI data?
[09:13] <ogra> mjg59, install hwdb-client and run hwdb-xml -d or hwdb-xml -a (all hal data)
[09:13] <seb128> kent: http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/gthumb_2.6.3cvs20050317-0ubuntu1_i386.deb if you want to try with this package
[09:13] <medwards_> Is there any way to get flash-friendly write balancing with device-mapper?
[09:14] <medwards_> oh, by the way ... torrent for array-7?
[09:14] <ogra> mjg59, should be the same as lspci....needs probably a filter since its everything
[09:15] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool
[09:15] <Kamion> mjg59: not that I know of right now, guess it wouldn't be hard
[09:15] <Kamion> medwards_: damn, forgot
[09:15] <mjg59> Kamion: I've got a couple of machines here that it would be insanely useful for
[09:16] <mdz> mjg59: machines which will boot d-i with no options, but require options to work properly thereafter?
[09:16] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[09:16] <mdz> the toshiba craptop took quite a long time to swsusp, but it got there
[09:17] <mdz> will know shortly whether it wakes up
[09:17] <Kamion> mjg59: we have a dmidecode-udeb, could easily do shell scripting around that in the bootloader installers or something
[09:17] <medwards_> Should I expect array-7 to support ipw2100 properly?  The only LiveCD I've ever seen work on this Centrino was Kanotix, and I couldn't get my remaster to work.
[09:17] <mjg59> medwards_: Should work fine
[09:17] <mjg59> Kamion: Any chance for Hoary?
[09:17] <Kamion> mjg59: maybe, send me a spec :)
[09:17] <medwards_> Same "couldn't find ipw2100-fw-1.3" error I got with Warty.
[09:17] <mdz> flawless!
[09:18] <ogra> wow
[09:18] <mdz> both STR and swsusp, very impressive
[09:18] <Kamion> thom: could you do torrents for array-7 once they arrive on torrent.u.c? should be a few minutes from now
[09:18] <medwards_> (and with Knoppix 3.8)
[09:18] <medwards_> mjg59: thanks.
[09:18] <mdz> thom: we really do need to automate the remainder of that; we ought to be torrenting the dailies at this point
[09:19] <Kamion> mdz: I think a prereq for that is on my list, will look tomorrow
[09:19] <Kamion> anyway I really have to run now, massively late
[09:19] <pitti> yay, my home network is back *happy happy joy joy*
[09:19] <mjg59> Kamion: Based on a regexp that matches either the manufacturer or model, we need to be able to add a command line option
[09:19] <mjg59> I'll flesh it out and mail you
[09:19] <Kamion> thanks
[09:19] <mdz> thom: we'll need torrents for the kubuntu preview as well
[09:19] <medwards_> Kamion: thanks much.
[09:19] <mdz> lamont: terranova finished early building kubuntu livefs; please check
[09:20] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok, looks like we really could do with that patch that keybuk tried
[09:20] <mjg59> I've just nearly cooked a machine here
[09:20] <zul> heh
[09:21] <medwards_> mdz: swsusp with array-7?
[09:21] <robtaylor> lamont: no news on my issue, apart from that patch not fixing it.. guess i'm gonna have to go get my hands really dirty ;)
[09:21] <mdz> medwards_: an installed system upgraded from woody to the equivalent of array-7, yes
[09:21] <thom> mdz: as kamion says, we need to have the smaller pool
[09:22] <thom> mjg59: #7480
[09:22] <thom> mdz: when is kubuntu preview?
[09:22] <mdz> as real functionality it'd be purely academic, but it could be useful for testing whether it works
[09:22] <mdz> thom: today or tomorrow
[09:23] <thom> ah, k
[09:23] <mdz> depending on how these CDs turn out
[09:23] <mdz> elmo: around?
[09:23] <mdz> anyone else have an account on terranova besides lamont and elmo?
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: you managed to collide with an archive update
[09:23] <lamont> re-launched
[09:23] <mdz> ah, ok
[09:24] <mjg59> thom: Interesting. I honestly don't see how that can happen.
[09:24] <medwards_> lamont: if you were thinking of releasing the live cloop build script, I'd like to play with it.  Maybe even try unionfs if I can get the module to build against the Ubuntu kernel (the miniroot changes from Knoppix 3.8 are pretty straightforward).
[09:24] <mdz> lamont: are the royal and king ones screwed, then?
[09:24] <mdz> lamont: if they are, please kill them and I'll restart
[09:24] <lamont> mdz: the Release and Packages files, as fetched, were not from the same archive run.
[09:24] <mjg59> thom: As far as I can tell, network modules really should be loaded and unloaded in the same order
[09:25] <mdz> lamont: we need kdepim 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3
[09:25] <mjg59> I guess that it's reasonable to record the mac/name mapping beforehand and set it up again afterwards, though
[09:25] <lamont> mdz: checking
[09:25] <mjg59> thom: Did you check gdm-signal?
[09:25] <mdz> thom: can you stick around tonight until we know whether kubuntu preview is happening?
[09:25] <pitti> mdz: but where is the sense of putting hibernate on the live CDs and not on the install ones?
[09:26] <lamont> mdz: 0ubuntu3 is being used in all 3 builds now
[09:26] <pitti> mdz: at least, I only ever saw "hibernate computer" on live CDs
[09:26] <mdz> pitti: we need the root filesystem in order to resume
[09:26] <thom> mjg59: this is what i thought, but I don't see the harm in doing an ifrename just to make sure, since we have iftab anyway...
[09:26] <doko> ok to uploade OOo1 now, or should I wait until after the Kubuntu preview?
[09:26] <mjg59> thom: Oh, we have iftab? If so, then yeah
[09:26] <mdz> mjg59: we write an iftab from d-i
[09:26] <lamont> medwards_: gotta dot an i or two before I can release it.
[09:26] <mjg59> Sure. Just ifrename it on resume, then.
[09:26] <thom> mdz: i need to go out but it'll be local (friends over from the states until monday, prolly won't see em otherwise); sms me if you need me?
[09:27] <thom> mjg59: yeah
[09:27] <kent> seb128, installing that package right now. I will let you know soon if it works or not.
[09:27] <thom> mjg59: not yet (gdm-signal)
[09:27] <lamont> but as for what it does, it literally just does a debootstrap and a couple of apt-get's, then rsync's the result into an fsimage (rather than using loopfs for the install...), then compresses it.
[09:27] <lamont> and a couple other housekeeping things
[09:27] <mdz> thom: it's more likely than not that we'll need you; can someone else fill in?
[09:27] <mjg59> thom: Ok. It's kind of important for machines without acpi sleep keys
[09:27] <mdz> elmo isn't around
[09:27] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[09:27] <lamont> mdz: 2 minutes until I must run for ~2 hours.
[09:28] <mdz> lamont: if builds are in progress with kdepim -0ubuntu3 I am happy
[09:28] <lamont> yep.
[09:28] <thom> mjg59: nod
[09:28] <lamont> mdz: and not 100% trivial, but <machine>/~buildd/livecd/kubuntu/latest/*.out is the log file of the latest run
[09:28] <medwards_> lamont: OK.  Is the package selection in the apt-gets, or are there virtual packages containing the important dependencies?
[09:28] <thom> mdz: unsure, but local means 5 minutes walk from my pc
[09:29] <lamont> s/latest/current/ for the last successful run
[09:29] <medwards_> lamont: and thanks very much!
[09:29] <mdz> thom: ok
[09:29] <mdz> thom: "out" :-)
[09:29] <lamont>         ubuntu)
[09:29] <lamont>             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-live"
[09:29] <lamont>     LIST="$LIST xresprobe laptop-detect"
[09:29] <lamont>     case $(dpkg --print-architecture) in
[09:29] <lamont>         amd64)          LIST="$LIST linux-amd64-generic";;
[09:29] <lamont>         i386)           LIST="$LIST linux-386";;
[09:29] <lamont> ...
[09:29] <thom> mdz: very close pub :-)
[09:29] <medwards_> (I presume ubuntu's debootstrap has the hoary base script.)
[09:30] <thom> very close _irish_ pub, more importantly
[09:30] <lamont> and some diversions to get things in the way out of the wya
[09:30] <lamont> medwards_: certainly
[09:30] <medwards_> lamont: excellent.  Thanks again.
[09:30] <lamont> it's basically ubuntu-meta*, xresprobe, laptop-detect, and kernel
[09:31] <lamont> mdz: can be online in about 1:40 or so, if you sms me...
[09:31] <lamont> but hopefully no need.
[09:32] <mdz> lamont-away: how can I check when the builds are done?
[09:33] <lamont-away> wget machine/~buildd/livecd/kubuntu/latest and there should be more than one file in the list?
[09:33] <lamont-away> if too long, and still just one file, wget that (.out), and see what went wrong.
[09:33] <mdz> ok, thanks
[09:35] <lamont-away> ubuntu is about 35 minutes
[09:35] <Seveas> hi
[09:35] <Seveas> is anybody going to change the ubuntu website, so that it mentions 'breezy badger' as being the next release?
[09:35] <lamont-away> mdz: and the last (good) kubuntu build to 27 min
[09:38] <medwards_> OK, time to dissect array-7 and see what lives outside the cloop.  Is there a sources.list entry that will give me an archive snapshot as of array-7?
[09:42] <elmo> mdz: I am around btw
[09:47] <mdz> elmo: ok
[09:48] <mdz> lamont reappeared
[09:48] <medwards_> elmo: Is there a sources.list entry that will give me an archive snapshot as of array-7?  Or is there another way to see a frozen archive when experimenting with the LiveCD mastering process?
[09:48] <thom> mdz: array 7 checking, should be on torrent in a few minutes
[09:48] <tseng> medwards_: the freeze isnt enforced by software afaik
[09:49] <tseng> medwards_: its a understanding followed by the developers to just not add things to main while the cds are in progress
[09:49] <elmo> medwards_: no, sorry
[09:49] <mdz> medwards_: not apart from setting up a local mirror
[09:49] <mdz> medwards_: (which is how we do the CD builds)
[09:50] <mdz> the current archive is quite sane, though, and should remain so for the remainder of the release cycle
[09:51] <medwards_> tseng, elmo, mdz: thanks.  I'll go with the moving target, and if I have trouble, I'll mirror locally.
[09:51] <mdz> medwards_: if you're doing more than one build, you definitely want at least a cache, and probably a local mirror, anyway
[09:52] <mdz> main for 1 architecture isn't all that large
[09:52] <medwards_> mdz: of course I'll cache; save us both bandwidth.  :)
[09:54] <medwards_> I'm getting about 8KB/s on the array-7 download; maybe I should just wait for the torrent?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync root-portal?
[09:56] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yes!!! :-)
[09:56] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  root-portal_0.5.0-3ubuntu1 (vs 0.5.2-1)
[09:56] <elmo> ok to override?
[09:57] <zul> later
[09:57] <dholbach> bye zul
[09:58] <Mithrandir> elmo: yes, ok to override
[09:58] <dholbach> Mithrandir: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseHowlRebuildTODO nearly sorted out :-)
[09:59] <thom> elmo: did you see my sync request for lsof?
[09:59] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks.
[10:00] <elmo> thom: yes, but the version you requested's now in limbo - I'll sync it when it hits a mirror
[10:01] <thom> okey
[10:01] <thom> thanks mate
[10:02] <ogra> yeah, already 20 hwdb submissions :)
[10:02] <dholbach> ogra: hang on... you'll have mine too in just a sec ;-)
[10:02] <ogra> heh
[10:02] <kent> jdub, it seems to not crash with that version from CVS. I started gthumb a while ago and it has had the slideshow on for some time now and it has not crashed. Though i have it on random, but it has always crashed rather quickly, so i think its ok now.
[10:03] <seb128> kent: speaking about the new package ?
[10:03] <seb128> kent: or that's a different issue you are fixing with jdub ?
[10:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, dont you get mails from buzilla ?
[10:05] <kent> seb128, i meen the issue with gthumb and watchin slideshows.  I installed it and it seems to work now.
[10:05] <ogra> +g
[10:05] <dholbach> Mithrandir: RSS-ification!
[10:05] <seb128> kent: ok, because you spoke to jdub, so I prefer to ask :)
[10:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: stuff which I haven't gotten originally.
[10:05] <ogra> ah, k
[10:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: (I'm going to sit on a train and then a bus for a bunch of hours.  Would be nice if I could do useful stuff while doing that.)
[10:05] <kent> seb128, oh.. sorry, i wrote to the wrong person then. haha, i forgot it was you i should have spoken to. haha :) sorry
[10:05] <seb128> np
[10:06] <seb128> now I need to find the fix in the diff :/
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> Does anyone know what can possibly cause that ever ...ok notice during startup/shutdon is on a newline?
[10:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, so pull down some bugs in advance
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> every, even
[10:06] <ogra> Mithrandir (i.e. save th BZ page or wget it)
[10:08] <Mithrandir> yeah, that kinda works
[10:08] <thom> mdz: bt torrenting away
[10:08] <mdz> thom: thanks
[10:10] <medwards_> thom: bt link?
[10:11] <medwards_> (will seed in US)
[10:12] <mdz> medwards_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/array-7/
[10:14] <doko> mdz: ok to uploade OOo1 now, or should I wait until after the Kubuntu preview?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> doko: the 2.6 avm stuff freezes a lot.
[10:14] <mdz> doko: if you can wait one hour, that would be good
[10:14] <Mithrandir> doko: like, twice a day.
[10:15] <doko> Mithrandir: does the card has it's own interrupt?
[10:16] <Mithrandir>  12:      64399          XT-PIC  fcdslsl
[10:16] <Mithrandir> looks like it
[10:16] <doko> mdz: not sure, if I'm awake then. the packages are at chinstrap:~doko/uploads . would you mind uploading them?
[10:16] <mdz> doko: ok
[10:17] <mdz> doko: signed?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: it _might_ be something else; kinda hard to check when I don't have a console connected to the system.
[10:17] <doko> Mithrandir: strange, I didn't havve these problems, after the card had it's own interupt.
[10:17] <doko> mdz: yes, signed. thanks
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: but since I've had that kill the system with 2.4 as well, I'm suspecting the fcdslsl card
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm.
[10:18] <doko> mvo has another card (dsl2), maybe he can send it to you
[10:18] <Mithrandir> I could possibly try with a better mobo with a real APIC instead of the XT-PIC shit.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> it's just annoying, it's not a problem per se, I just wondered if I was the only one seeing this.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> I can spend a bit more time trying to see if I can reproduce it or get a backtrace.
[10:19] <seb128> kent: I'm uploading -0ubuntu2 with some fixes from the CVS version. Can you close the bugzilla bug if it fixes the crasher ?
[10:22] <kent> seb128, I have never closed a bug, but ok.. If it works, I will look on bugzilla about how to close the bug.
[10:23] <thom> woah, code.google.com
[10:24] <Mithrandir> thom: shiny
[10:24] <ogra> thom, oh they grabbed that one too ? there is a free site offering code snippet search since two years...
[10:24] <thom> ogra: no, go look
[10:25] <ogra> ah
[10:29] <thom> right, i'm -> pub; sms if/when you need me
[10:29] <kent> On bugzille it is written that bugreports against universe should be posted to ubuntu-users, is that correct? should not ubuntu-devel be the right place?
[10:30] <jdub> uuuggghhh
[10:30] <thom> kent: the message is correct
[10:31] <kent> seb128, btw, I forgot,  did you say you will make a new package for me to try? I was in the middle of doing some things and I accidently shut down xchat :(
[10:32] <seb128> kent: I've uploaded a new one for hoary, just let me know if this one work
[10:33] <seb128> you will need to downgrade from the current cvs one
[10:34] <kent> seb128, ok. Will do.
[10:34] <seb128> thanks
[10:36] <kent> seb128, gthumb 2.6.3-1ubuntu1  ?
[10:37] <seb128> no, ubuntu2
[10:37] <seb128> it's probably building atm
[10:38] <kent> seb128, ok. I should be going to bed soon. How long does it take for it to compile?
[10:38] <seb128> kent: there is no hurry you can try tomorrow
[10:38] <seb128> not long, should be in the archive in 20min
[10:39] <kent> seb128, I'l rather wait for it then. Becaus im going home to my parents tomorrow after school so I wont have the time then.
[10:40] <seb128> k
[10:47] <smurfix> Grumble -- pitti's netboot image for powerpc didn't.
[10:59] <ogra> oh,<PHONE_NUMBER> is near !
[10:59] <ogra> (date +%s)
[11:01] <dholbach> ogra: do we need a  wiki/UniverseDate1111111111CleanupTODO  or something?
[11:01] <jdub> the status is:<PHONE_NUMBER>
[11:02] <ogra> in case you got gtk-perl installed:
[11:02] <ogra> !/usr/bin/perl
[11:02] <ogra> use strict;
[11:02] <ogra> use Gtk2 -init;
[11:02] <ogra> use Glib qw(TRUE FALSE);
[11:02] <ogra> my $window = Gtk2::Window->new;
[11:02] <ogra> $window->signal_connect(delete_event => sub { Gtk2->main_quit; });
[11:02] <ogra> my $label = Gtk2::Label->new('' . time());
[11:02] <ogra> my $font = Gtk2::Pango::FontDescription->from_string("Sans Bold 48");
[11:02] <ogra> $label->modify_font($font);
[11:03] <ogra> Glib::Timeout->add(250, sub { $label->set_text('' . time()); TRUE; });
[11:03] <ogra> $window->add($label);
[11:03] <ogra> $window->show_all;
[11:03] <ogra> Gtk2->main;
[11:03] <seb128> urg
[11:03] <seb128> beeeurg
[11:03] <smurfix> dholbach: Count me out, 111* is in the middle of the night here
[11:03] <ogra> heh
[11:03] <seb128> WTF is that
[11:03] <smurfix> ogra: This is Ubuntu. Use Python.  ;-)
[11:04] <ogra> smurfix, :) i will for<PHONE_NUMBER>
[11:04] <seb128> jdub: desktop files for g-a-i ?
[11:04] <dholbach> ogra: have it running :-)
[11:05] <jdub> seb128: aye!
[11:05] <seb128> rock
[11:06] <dholbach> smurfix: should be middle of the night here too :-)
[11:06] <mvo> seb128: can I upload gnomemeeting without the libpt-plugins-v4l dependency? it breaks updates from warty (#7419)
[11:07] <seb128> mvo: sure
[11:08] <ogra> smurfix, btw, who should convert all the p*rl stuff if everybody only wants to touch py ?
[11:08] <ogra> :)
[11:08] <seb128> ogra: no need to read perl code to write py one :)
[11:09] <ogra> hmm
[11:09] <maswan> mmmm.. perl. :)
[11:09] <medwards_> maswan: crunchy perl goodness.
[11:11] <maswan> medwards_: exactly. :)
[11:11] <smurfix> ogra:<PHONE_NUMBER> is >2^31. We'll have to do quite a bit of work if we don't want anything to break with *that*.
[11:11] <ogra> *g*
[11:12] <kent> seb128, this is the moment of truth..  im trying the slideshow now with the new version. Hopefully it will work..
[11:13] <seb128> k
[11:19] <kent> seb128, it seems to work for me with that version from the archive. Should I set it to fixed in bugzilla? There is no "closed" option, just the "reslove bug, changing resolution to [fixed] "
[11:19] <kent> seb128, I wrote in the wrong channel first, haha :)
[11:19] <seb128> fixed is fine, thanks
[11:19] <seb128> I've replied in the other one :p
[11:21] <medwards_> lamont: just posted an (untested) fix for 4504 (cupsys upgrade failures).  Does anyone know how to reproduce it?
[11:22] <medwards_> (fix should probably be applied in debian package also; haven't picked a bug to attach it to)
[11:39] <mdz> jdub: cursor theme fix?
[11:41] <jdub> mdz: i've got the ubuntu-artwork end; you reassigned the previous package repair side to seb, didn't you?
[11:41] <mdz> jdub: uploaded?
[11:41] <jdub> no
[11:41] <mdz> I didn't see it go up
[11:42] <mdz> is seb128 going to have time to do that tonight?
[11:42] <jdub> i have an icon drop to go up with it;
[11:42] <mdz> I asked him to help you with it
[11:42] <jdub> however, despite my earlier elation, i have to prepare for a meeting this afternoon
[11:43] <jdub> if seb can't do the other end tonight his time, i'll do it tonight my time
[11:43] <seb128> mdz: when you say tonight, that's now (it's midnight here) or tomorrow ?
[11:44] <mdz> seb128: now
[11:44] <seb128> k, I'll have a look and will get back to the other stuff after
[11:45] <jdub> seb128: gtk2-engines-industrial just needs to kill off the alternative that wasn't killed off properly during upgrade
[11:45] <mdz> and some testing
[11:45] <seb128> ok
[11:45] <jdub> i'll upload u-a this afternoon, post-meeting
[11:46] <seb128> you fix this one ?
[11:46] <seb128> I just need to remove the broken alternative in gtk2-engines-industrial ?
[11:46] <jdub> yeha
[11:46] <jdub> u-a is ok, just needs some updates and an upload
[11:49] <mdke> hi guys. I just got an email from a guy who says this "I'm preparing an article for Newsforge about OpenOffice.org version 2.0's increased use of Java and how third-party redistributors are approaching the change." He wants a statement from ubuntu. Who can I forward this misdirected mail to?
[11:50] <medwards_>  Does Java on Ubuntu get much testing?  It looks like java-package is from multiverse and kaffe and ecj are from universe.
[11:50] <mdke> i just wanna know who has authority to answer this email
[11:50] <mdke> the answer is pretty obviously not me
[11:51] <ogra> medwards_, which shouldnt make it less tested then main apps ;)
[11:51] <mdke> hi ogra
[11:51] <ogra> hi mdke
[11:51] <mdke> :)
[11:51] <medwards_> ogra: actually, I was writing that question before mdke came in.
[11:51] <mdke> heh coincidence
[11:52] <ogra> there is a JavaIntegration wiki page, jabiley leads the java team afaik
[11:52] <ogra> oops, jbailey indeed
[11:52] <medwards_> I'm really excited about java-in-main, especially since my day job is java-intensive and it's going to be up to me to convert them to free JDK.
[11:53] <mdke> ogra, you have any recommendations? shall i just forward it to ubuntu-devel?
[11:53] <jbailey> ogra: Heya!
[11:53] <medwards_> The pretext is support for ARM and MIPS(el) embedded targets.
[11:53] <ogra> mdke, jep, that would be the right place i guess
[11:53] <mdke> ogra, ok
[11:53] <mdke> hi jbailey perhaps you could advise me too
[11:54] <jbailey> medwards_: It's getting better.  ecj and gij are going to go into main for Breesy.  We're trying to get a bunch of the packages in shape in prep for that.
[11:54] <jbailey> JerryHaltom has been doing amazing work on that front.
[11:55] <jbailey> medwards_: Have you looked much at free java stuff yet?
[11:56] <jbailey> mdke: Oy, a statement from Ubuntu?
[11:56] <mdke> apparently
[11:56] <mdke> must be a journalist
[11:56] <jbailey> mdke: Probably the best bet for that would be Chris Halls.  He knows OOo the best.
[11:56] <mdke> true
[11:57] <mdke> he'll follow the dev list i guess?
[11:57] <jbailey> haggai: *poke* =)
[11:57] <mdke> actually i'll ccopy him in
[11:57] <jbailey> Let's see if he's around. =)
[11:57] <ogra> mdke, yep, and he is very busy currently,, thats why i didnt point you dirctly towards him
[11:57] <mdke> np
[11:58] <mdke> i bet you're all pretty busy :)
[11:58] <ogra> three weeks to go :)
[11:58] <mdke> yep
[11:58] <mvo> less than two for the preview ...
[11:58] <ogra> yep
[11:58] <mdke> you'll get there
[11:59] <medwards_> jbailey: yes, I've been tracking java-in-main with much interest.
[11:59] <jbailey> medwards_: Cool.  If you're interested in helping out, many of us (for both Debian and Ubuntu) are in #ubuntu-java
[12:00] <medwards_> jbailey: OK, I'll show up there as soon as my immediate crisis (building a LiveCD with working JDK/ANT) is over.
[12:02] <medwards_> jbailey: I'm trying to reduce my autobuilders to a LiveCD so that I can do scorched-earth rebuilds of the Apache suite with alternate JDKs.
[12:03] <lamont> mdz: 4504 - still trying to actually reproduce it here..
[12:03] <jbailey> medwards_: autobuilders?
[12:03] <jbailey> medwards_: Do you run the gump tests?
[12:03] <mdz> lamont: it's not going to be easy to reproduce; we just need to cripple that broken code
[12:03] <haggai> jbailey: hey leave me to idle on this channel in peace :)
[12:03] <jbailey> haggai: Yes, dear.
[12:03] <medwards_> lamont: candidate fix in bugzilla.
[12:03] <mdz> lamont: it should never abort the postinst
[12:04] <lamont> medwards_: yeah, reading it now
[12:04] <lamont> mdz: right... I'll get something uploaded today.  gonna try to reproduce it again though, too...
[12:04] <medwards_> jbailey: actually, autobuilders for day job (steaming-pile-of-java network management app)


[08:53] <glitchd_> anybody in here have teamspeak by chance?
[14:03] <tumbleweed> cody-somerville: dmb meeting?
[14:05] <tumbleweed> suppose I should ping everyone else, as I seem to be the only one who remembered...
[14:05] <tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
[14:05] <Laney> woah
[14:05] <Laney> oh, I did that, thought it was some bot wizardry
[14:06] <tumbleweed> heh
[14:06]  * micahg waves
[14:06] <tumbleweed> hrm, jbicha isn't online
[14:06]  * stgraber waves
[14:08] <tumbleweed> Laney: if cody-somerville doesn't turn up, I guess you are chair
[14:08] <Laney> i am not here enough to be able to drive i'm afraid
[14:09] <Laney> swap with whoever is next for next time?
[14:09] <tumbleweed> you :P
[14:09] <tumbleweed> micahg, after that
[14:09]  * micahg is barely awake ATM...
[14:10] <Laney> heh
[14:10] <stgraber> do we actually have anything to discuss with jbicha missing?
[14:10] <stgraber> I don't see any applicant or topics on the agenda that's not blocking on cody-somerville or jbicha
[14:10] <tumbleweed> there are also leftovers from the UDS discussion that never made it to our agenda (I guess they fell under cody)
[14:11] <Laney> i need to write down the package set process
[14:13] <Laney> micahg: are you still ok to ping the existing uploaders to get descriptions?
[14:13] <Laney> otherwise, don't see anything
[14:13] <Laney> we should ping jbicha to make sure he comes to the next one
[14:13] <tumbleweed> yeah
[14:13] <micahg> laney: yes
[14:13] <Laney> rock
[14:14] <micahg> sorry, will try to have that done for next time
[14:14] <Laney> np
[14:14] <Laney> wasn't finalised until recently anyway
[14:15] <tumbleweed> we discussed setting up a private IRC channel, at UDS (amongst other things) but the UDS discussion never made its way into our agenda
[14:19] <Laney> yeah we failed there
[14:19]  * tumbleweed can't even find discussion logs. Was the session unscheduled?
[14:19] <Laney> but we can easily try that if people think it might be useful
[14:19] <tumbleweed> cody was pretty convinced it would be, and sounded like the main driver for it
[14:21] <Laney> want to JFDI?
[14:23] <Laney> as in: I am updating the agenda — can I give it to you? :-)
[14:25] <Laney> silence. is. assent.
[14:25] <tumbleweed> heh, sure
[14:25] <Laney> updated
[14:25] <Laney> cheers all
[14:39] <micahg> are we done here?
[14:41]  * tumbleweed assumes so
[14:42] <tumbleweed> micahg: are you still tidying up team ownership?
[14:42] <micahg> ATM no, as a task, sure :)
[14:42] <micahg> oh, wait, yes, I keep trying, will have to poke harder :)
[14:43]  * bdrung waves.
[14:43] <bdrung> i forget that we already have winter time (utc+1 instead of utc+2)
[16:00] <ara> hello!
[16:01] <jedimike> hello!
[16:01] <roadmr> hy!
[16:01] <ara> OK, let's get started :)
[16:01] <ara> #startmeeting
[16:01] <brendand> hi
[16:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 21 16:01:36 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:01] <ara> Welcome to the UF Squad meeting
[16:01] <ara> The agenda today looks like:
[16:01] <ara> Do we want virtual machines to be able to submit to Ubuntu Friendly? (roadmr) - UF runs done on virtual machines aren't submitted to Launchpad, getting this to work would require some effort, we'd like to gauge community interest in this to determine if it's worth pursuing.
[16:01] <ara> Biweekly meetings - ara
[16:02] <ara> AOB - all
[16:02] <ara> As usual, type ".." when you've finished talking
[16:02] <ara> #topic Do we want virtual machines to be able to submit to Ubuntu Friendly? (roadmr)
[16:02] <ara> roadmr, all yours :)
[16:02] <roadmr> thanks!
[16:02] <roadmr> Last week we found out that UF runs done on virtual machines aren't submitted to Launchpad. This was verified on VirtualBox, and would have to be checked also for Xen, VMWare and KVM.
[16:03] <roadmr> The issue comes from the weird DMI information returned from virtual machines which means that checkbox is unable to generate a system_id, which in turn prevents submission to Launchpad.
[16:03] <roadmr> The question here is whether there is interest in having Ubuntu Friendly submissions from virtual machines. This depends on how likely are community members to want to test and submit a virtual machine.
[16:03] <ara> o/
[16:03] <roadmr> If there is no interest, then perhaps the work needed to get this working is not worthwhile, but if it's something that people will want, maybe it'd be interesting to do.
[16:03] <roadmr> ..
[16:04] <roadmr> ara, go
[16:04] <ara> I think the main interest of UF is to see how Ubuntu works on real hardware. I don't see the value on having a lot of submissions from virtual machines
[16:04] <ara> ..
[16:05] <roadmr> o/
[16:05] <ara> roadmr, go :)
[16:05] <brendand> o/
[16:05] <cr3> o/
[16:05] <roadmr> heheh :) so there's already a bug about this problem, one thing to do would be to mark it Won't Fix and point people who ask to that bug, and if someone ever comes up with a rationale as to why we should be testing VMs, we can revisit the decision
[16:05] <roadmr> ..
[16:06] <ara> brendand, your turn
[16:07] <brendand> i don't think we should mark the bug 'won't fix', since it is a bug. but we shouldn't prioritise it. i don't think VMs are in scope for testing with Ubuntu Friendly
[16:07] <brendand> ...
[16:07] <ara> cr3, your turn now
[16:08] <cr3> it should be possible to submit test results from virtual machines, even though it might not make sense to have them appear in UF
[16:08] <cr3> how this gets communicated to the user actually running the tests, so that they're not disappointed when their virtual machines does not appear in UF, I don't know
[16:08] <cr3> ..
[16:09] <ara> OK, so I guess the bug is valid, but not high priority :)
[16:10] <ara> we have to make sure that once we fix it, we change uf as well so they don't appear in uf
[16:10] <cr3> ara: agreed, in other words, it shouldn't be a "validation" error to submit from a virtual machine :)
[16:10] <ara> shall we vote? or we agree?
[16:10] <cr3> anyone disagree?
[16:11] <roadmr> so we're agreeing that the bug should be fixed at some point, correct?
[16:11] <cr3> roadmr: correct
[16:11] <roadmr> ok then, /me agrees :)
[16:11] <ara> roadmr, but that we need to avoid to show those submissions in UF
[16:12] <cr3> +1
[16:12] <ara> #action roadmr to update the bug with the correct importance and a nice comment to let people know
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: roadmr to update the bug with the correct importance and a nice comment to let people know
[16:12] <ara> cool!
[16:12] <ara> OK, moving on
[16:12] <ara> #topic Biweekly meetings - ara
[16:13] <jedimike> o/
[16:13] <ara> OK, so nobody outside the people who attended the meeting replied to the email in the ML
[16:13] <ara> jedimike, go ahead
[16:13] <jedimike> personally, i think it's better two have a lively biweekly meeting than a quiet weekly meeting
[16:14] <jedimike> just because if the meetings are quiet, as they are at the moment, they could be considered missable
[16:14] <jedimike> ...
[16:14] <brendand> o/
[16:14] <ara> brendand, your turn
[16:14] <brendand> i think we should try it once at least
[16:15] <roadmr> o/
[16:16] <ara> brendand, done?
[16:16] <brendand> we should also start thinking about why people don't feel the meetings are worth participating in
[16:16] <brendand> ...
[16:16] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[16:16] <cr3> o/
[16:17] <roadmr> biweekly meetings are a bit harder to keep track of, so we should be careful to announce them in the mailing list - not everyone will have a calendar reminder set up so we should do that for the participants :)
[16:17] <roadmr> ..
[16:17] <ara> cr3, your turn!
[16:18] <cr3> I liked roadmr's argument sent to the mailing list but I also like jedimike's. however, I'm not convinced that making the meeting biweekly will necessarily make the discussions more lively
[16:18] <cr3> the reason is that having it biweekly may put the project out of mind and therefore might even result in less lively meeting
[16:18] <cr3> I don't know, tough decision
[16:18] <cr3> ..
[16:19] <cr3> how about we try every 1.5 weeks? :)
[16:19] <ara> hehehe
[16:19] <ara> or following the fibonacci series by week number
[16:20] <cr3> +1
[16:20] <ara> The only thing important is to make sure that any decisions about the project are still made in the open
[16:21] <cr3> o/
[16:21] <ara> on the ML or the meetings
[16:21] <ara> cr3, go ahead
[16:21] <cr3> ara: good point, having to wait a couple weeks in order to make a decision in the open might not be ideal
[16:21] <cr3> ..
[16:21] <roadmr> o/
[16:21] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[16:21] <roadmr> I think relying on the ML a bit more for decision making is good, that way information comes to people
[16:22] <roadmr> as opposed to IRC where they have to come to the information - a bit more effort for everyone involved
[16:22] <roadmr> even though the ML is a bit slower...
[16:22] <roadmr> that may help in showing that decisions are open to the community
[16:22] <roadmr> and hopefully encourage more participation
[16:23] <cr3> +1
[16:23] <roadmr> and while I still think weekly meetings are less prone to losing momentum,
[16:23] <roadmr> maybe going biweekly is a good opportunity to prepare more interesting agendas,
[16:23] <roadmr> which will engage the community a bit more.
[16:23] <roadmr> ..
[16:23] <ara> what about keeping weekly and cancelling the meeting if there are no topics to discuss?
[16:23] <cr3> ara: +1
[16:24]  * cr3 is in an agreeing mood today
[16:24] <brendand> o/
[16:24] <ara> brendand, go ahead
[16:25] <brendand> we usually have at least *one* topic to discuss. the problem is that it's *only* one or two and maybe the topic(s) aren't that interesting to a wider audience
[16:26] <ara> o/
[16:26] <brendand> and if we hold up having a meeting until we have a 'good' agenda then the scheduling could end up quite random
[16:26] <brendand> which is annoying as someone participating externally
[16:27] <brendand> speaking from personal experience
[16:27] <cr3> o/
[16:27] <brendand> ...
[16:28] <ara> I think that if we have one topic, then we need to still have the meeting. If someone put it in the agenda is because it interest them :)
[16:28] <ara> ..
[16:28] <ara> cr3, go ahead
[16:28] <cr3> even if there's one agenda item, I would still hold a meeting because it might inspire other items for the next meeting.
[16:28] <cr3> ..
[16:29] <brendand> o/
[16:29] <ara> brendand, go ahead
[16:29] <brendand> i agree with that angle if the topic in question is proposed by the community
[16:30] <ara> but who are the community? because I am community :)
[16:31] <cr3> me too! I quit canonical for an hour just to attend these meetings :)
[16:31] <brendand> i'm also the community
[16:32] <brendand> let's say, outside of the meeting organizers
[16:32] <ara> but why? I don't understand the difference
[16:34] <ara> OK, so the options are:
[16:34] <ara> 1) Keep the weekly meeting, and cancel the meeting if there are no topics at all
[16:34] <ara> 2) Keep the weekly meeting, and cancel the meeting if there are no topics from people outside the meeting organizers (?)
[16:35] <ara> 3) Move to a biweekly meeting
[16:35] <ara> Any other options?
[16:35] <cr3> shall we vote?
[16:36]  * ara wonders if you can give options to the voting system...
[16:36] <ara> #vote meeting options
[16:36] <meetingology> Please vote on: meeting options
[16:36] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:36] <ara> #endvote
[16:36] <meetingology> Voting ended on: meeting options
[16:36] <meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:36] <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
[16:36] <ara> it does not look like
[16:37] <ara> #vote Option 1 on the cadence
[16:37] <meetingology> Please vote on: Option 1 on the cadence
[16:37] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:37] <ara> (this is for those that want option 1)
[16:37] <cr3> +1
[16:37] <meetingology> +1 received from cr3
[16:37] <ara> +1
[16:37] <meetingology> +1 received from ara
[16:37] <roadmr> +1
[16:37] <meetingology> +1 received from roadmr
[16:37] <ara> (vote 0 if it is not your chosen option, please)
[16:37] <brendand> 0
[16:37] <meetingology> 0 received from brendand
[16:38] <ara> jedimike, ?
[16:38] <jedimike> +1
[16:38] <meetingology> +1 received from jedimike
[16:38] <ara> #endvote
[16:38] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Option 1 on the cadence
[16:38] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[16:38] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:38] <ara> OK, I think we don't need to vote the rest of the options, unless anyone says we should
[16:39] <ara> #agree Meetings to be kept on a weekly cadence. The meeting would be cancel if no topics are on the agenda
[16:40] <ara> mmm, it didn't seem to work :)
[16:40] <ara> anyway
[16:40] <ara> Anything else on this topic?
[16:40] <ara> OK, let's move on
[16:41] <ara> #topic Any Other Business?
[16:41] <ara> Anyone?
[16:41] <jedimike> not me
[16:41]  * roadmr got nothing else :(
[16:41] <ara> OK, let's wrap up then
[16:41] <cr3> ditto
[16:41] <ara> #endmeeting
[16:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 21 16:41:55 2011 UTC.
[16:41] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-21-16.01.moin.txt
[16:41] <ara> cool!
[16:42] <ara> thanks all!
[16:42] <roadmr> thanks :)
[16:44] <brendand> thanks
[17:59] <jdstrand> hi!
[17:59] <tyhicks> Hello
[18:00] <micahg> o/
[18:02] <jjohansen> \o
[18:02] <jdstrand> ok, let's get started
[18:02] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 21 18:02:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:02] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:02] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:02] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:03] <jdstrand> Short week for a lot of the team as Thursday is a national holiday for US employees and a lot of people are taking Friday off
[18:03] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thank you for spending time getting your blueprints in order. I think everything is looking good on that front, especially when considering our commitment to essential work items (and best effort for high and lower).
[18:04] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:04] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:04] <jdstrand> I'm one of the ones with a short week (off thu and fri)
[18:04] <jdstrand> I'm on community this week
[18:05] <jdstrand> I've got one pending update that I hope to push this week: kdeutils. It involves quite a bit of testing, but I hope to push it out today, tomorrow at the latest
[18:05] <jdstrand> I've also got a few MIR audits
[18:06] <jdstrand> if I have any time, I hope to gather up some statistics on proactive and reactive work
[18:07] <jdstrand> I want to be able to look at all the time estimates we gave in the work items and look at if people have too much dev work, etc
[18:08] <jdstrand> hopefully, going forward I can have some processes that will better predict things such that at the next UDS we can continue to improve our planning
[18:08] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:08] <mdeslaur> I'm currently pushing out a software-center update
[18:08] <mdeslaur> and I have a pidgin update to test and push
[18:09] <mdeslaur> and then I'll continue going down the list
[18:09] <mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:09] <mdeslaur> and I won't be eating turkey on thursday
[18:09] <mdeslaur> so I'll hold down the fort
[18:09] <mdeslaur> that,s it from me
[18:09] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks! :)
[18:09] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[18:10] <sbeattie> I'm also happy placing this week
[18:10] <sbeattie> and have a short-week planned
[18:10] <sbeattie> I'm working on a glibc update and monitoring for openjdk regressions from last week
[18:11] <sbeattie> I'm also exploring cgroups
[18:11] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me
[18:11] <sbeattie> micahg: tag
[18:12] <micahg> so, I think I have a full week this week and will also not be having Turkey on Thursday :)
[18:13] <micahg> so, unfortunately, last week ended up being a very short week for me, so I'm still trying to get the Mozilla updates out, after that I have chromium and a few other updates related to DigiCert
[18:13] <micahg> that's it for me
[18:13] <micahg> tyhicks: you're it
[18:13] <tyhicks> First off, I will be eating turkey on Thursday... lots of it :)
[18:13] <mdeslaur> \o/
[18:13] <tyhicks> I'll also be taking half a day off on Wednesday and Friday
[18:14] <tyhicks> I'm in the triage role this week
[18:14] <tyhicks> So I should still have plenty of time to get that role covered all week
[18:14] <tyhicks> Outside of that, I am going to move on to a libt1 update
[18:15] <tyhicks> and I intend to start the SRU process for a couple eCryptfs kernel patches for Oneiric
[18:15] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: after all that tryptophan, it's good that you're taking friday off :)
[18:15] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: Yes - I probably won't wake up until noon, anways :)
[18:15] <tyhicks> That's it for me - you're up jjohansen
[18:15] <jjohansen> thanks
[18:16] <jjohansen> well, yet again another short week here.
[18:17] <jjohansen> beside the regular kernel USN work,  I need to fix bug893232, that was discovered last week during testing, and continue getting the apparmor permission rework pushed through and the base of stacking
[18:17] <jjohansen> Also I need to release AppArmor 2.7 final some time this week
[18:18] <jjohansen> hrmm, I think that is it from me
[18:19] <jdstrand> thanks guys
[18:19] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:19] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:19] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:19] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bip.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnucash.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/conky.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/unbound.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ardour.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:20] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:22] <jdstrand> alrighty then
[18:22] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
[18:23] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:23] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 21 18:23:02 2011 UTC.
[18:23] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-21-18.02.moin.txt
[18:23] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:23] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[18:23] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[18:23] <tyhicks> Thanks jdstrand
[18:23] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!


[14:24] <cmaloney> Good AM
[14:24] <rick_h> wheee
[14:44] <Scary_Guy> hail and well met
[14:51] <cmaloney> Or the weather version: hail at wet Mel
[14:56] <rick_h> is it still going to get crappy this weekend?
[14:57] <cmaloney> I think it's going to be worse the more north you are
[18:06] <cmaloney> Also: good afternoon (not for greg-g for a little bit)
[18:20] <widox> hey hey
[18:22] <cmaloney> I am somehow disturbed that I have more hope than greg-g at this point. :(
[18:23] <rick_h> Uh oh
[18:23] <rick_h> What hope have we kept or lost?
[18:26] <cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/99218939929541764
[19:22] <cmaloney> whee
[20:01] <rick_h> Yay
[22:26] <cmaloney> And Meijer is pretty much slammed
[22:26] <cmaloney> I think it'll be this way for a while now
[22:30] <_stink_> we got our groceries this morning
[22:30] <_stink_> it was busy but not quite to the crazy level


[13:01] <jpds> Hmm.,
[13:34] <bazhang> rocket16 continuing with the 'Heil' nonsense, and now Osama Bin Laden and Saddam (as Coolie) in -ot
[13:43] <bazhang> he says his 'friend did it', yet completely consistent with his previous nazi/terrorist references.
[13:43] <IdleOne> remove him?
[13:43] <jpds> bazhang: Maybe he has friends like that?
[13:44] <elky> He's consistantly taking the fall for his friends, then.
[13:44] <bazhang> jpds, it was him. the 'friend did it' and he has no guest account (conveniently)
[13:44] <elky> He's a bit of a muppet in -ot whenever I've seen him talk.
[13:52] <IdleOne> abhijit abhijain  are these two the same user?
[13:53] <elky> I'd err on the side of "no" but I haven't read the scrollback
[13:54] <IdleOne> elky: I saw a sentence where it seemed to me that one was claiming to be the other
[13:54] <IdleOne> let me get it
[13:55] <IdleOne> [08:40:42] <abhijit> stanley_robertso, :D abhijain its me abhijit
[13:57] <IdleOne> running to store
[13:57] <IdleOne> be back
[13:57] <elky> IdleOne, read a few lines up to where stanley tabcompletes wrong. it's just poor english
[13:58] <IdleOne> elky: thank you
[18:17] <ikonia> !search bluray
[18:18] <gnomefreak> found: means? found: nothing
[18:18] <ikonia> I guess so
[18:18] <ikonia> I thought there was a bluray factoid
[18:18] <ikonia> !blu-ray
[18:18] <gnomefreak> that should really say found nothing or found 0
[18:19] <gnomefreak> blue-ray?
[18:19] <ikonia> yup
[18:19] <gnomefreak> !blue-ray
[18:19] <gnomefreak> or not
[18:29] <mneptok> no "e" in Blu-ray
[18:30] <ikonia> I know, doesn't work though
[18:30] <mneptok> Sony couldn't afford the extra vowel. Pat Sajak is a greedy m0f0.
[18:31] <gnomefreak> :)
[18:50] <ikonia> !search tiff2raw
[18:50] <ikonia> ughhh rubbish
[18:54] <gnomefreak> any chance of getting a better output to !find when it doesnt find anything
[18:54] <ikonia> log a bug for it I guess (I'll do it)
[18:57] <gnomefreak> ikonia: thanks i forgot what to file against
[19:27] <gnomefreak> if i submit auto_bleh to irssi scripts site can someone else maintain it. perl is not something i can do
[19:27] <gnomefreak> :)
[19:30] <gnomefreak> nevermind
[19:31] <jpds> Need more Python.
[19:31] <mneptok> jpds: "moar"
[19:31] <jpds> mneptok: "mehr"
[19:32] <mneptok> no thanks. i just brushed my teeth.
[19:33] <gnomefreak> yum toothpaste and jack daniels
[19:33] <mneptok> not just good, but good for ya.


[03:02] <sassas123> guys, could you help me with non-working ethernet on my notebook?
[03:40] <vn-> heya, I'm trying to setup a projector as my monitor on xubuntu precise, but im limited to 1360x768...how can I get 1080i res? ty
[03:45] <well_laid_lawn> vn-: what does xrandr in a terminal tell you the options for resolution of the projector are?
[06:22] <cheetah97> ping
[06:22] <cheetah97> anybody here?
[08:28] <xubuntu325> how to resett my passwd in xbuntu
[08:31] <xubuntu246> helo
[08:33] <xubuntu246> excuse me I have a problem with xubuntu, long ago, I set the proxy and now I would like to remove on xubuntu but not the file apt.conf else as I do?
[08:38] <roryy> xubuntu246: according to askubuntu.com here http://askubuntu.com/questions/86638/xubuntu-11-10-proxy-server-settings   you set a "system-wide" proxy via editing .bashrc.
[08:39] <roryy> xubuntu246: i don't understand what you mean by proxy, exactly, but that is one place to set a proxy
[08:45] <xubuntu246> so if I did not want to set any proxy server entry and portnumber which values should I put?
[08:45] <xubuntu246> I intend to proxy the proxy to the network
[08:52] <well_laid_lawn> in a terminal   export http_proxy=""   should clear it afaik
[08:59] <xubuntu246> thanks
[12:18] <Formal> hi, I have a question about the network manager
[12:19] <Formal> when I start up I can only get my wireless connection working if I put up a lan cable
[12:20] <Formal> then the network manager starts working
[12:20] <Formal> my question is: why do can I have only an wireless connection through this method
[12:21] <Formal> second: why does the network manager start very slowly
[12:21] <Formal> it even crashes
[12:23] <Formal> anyone?
[14:19] <Chad___> I have a simple question. In Thunar, is it possible to open a shell script in a text editor by default (rather than executing it)?
[14:31] <ochosi> Chad___: yes, right-click the script, go to "open with other application" and select a text-editor (and tick "use as default")
[14:34] <Chad___> ochosi: I've done that. It makes it the default text editor, but when I double-click the file, it still executes instead.
[14:37] <Chad___> ochosi: I'm using XFCE 4.8 (the default that ships with Xubuntu). Perhaps I'll have to wait for 4.10's MIME Type Editor?
[14:37] <ochosi> Chad___: no, it should work in 4.8 as well
[14:37] <ochosi> Chad___: unfortunately i can't test it now and here, because i'm using 4.10
[14:38] <Chad___> ochosi: Hm....okay. Thanks for the help anyways :)
[14:39] <ochosi> Chad___: np
[14:51] <Mathsterk> Chad___: right click on the file, properties, open with *select*
[15:15] <Chad___> Mathsterk: The properties menu only displays "General", "Emblems", and "Permissions". I have a feeling this cannot be solved.
[15:16] <Mathsterk> it's under the "general" tab
[15:16] <Chad___> The "General" tab just shows information about the selected file, that's it.
[15:20] <Mathsterk> here is how it looks like for me: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07072012-051840pm.php
[16:45] <xubuntu831> hello, can somebody help me with connecting xubuntu 12.04 to internet? (no wifi, no lan after upgrade from 11.10)
[17:01] <delt> heh, this almost worked, i'm surprised :D :D
[17:01] <delt> running xubuntu from a chroot within slack
[17:01] <delt> by refining a bit, i bet i could do it
[17:03] <delt> the problem is, with the separate X server running "outside" the chroot, xubuntu apps can't connect to unix sockets with it....
[17:03] <delt> but when i run the Xserver within the chroot, it pukes something about the nvidia driver.... :/ perhaps if i copy the kernel modules over?
[17:05] <delt> ...anyway, running a xubuntu desktop on a separate X server within slack, would be the best!! :D :D
[17:07] <delt> that way i could run all the apps that don't run directly throught the mount point, without rebooting between the two distros
[17:47] <delt> DUH, different versions of the nvidia driver.....
[17:47] <delt> <--- ritardid :)
[18:21] <delt> What's the config file that prevents ctrl+alt+backspace in xubuntu?
[18:22] <Sysi> altgr prntscrn K is 2012
[18:23] <delt> altr, print...screen... ???
[18:25] <Sysi> Alt plus PrintScreen plus K
[18:25] <Sysi> to restart Xorg
[18:26] <delt> ah, yeah just noticed.... didnt even know that :D
[18:27] <Sysi> it's the new standard, been around a while already though
[18:30] <delt> yeah, less chance to accidentally hit it :3
[19:35] <cousteau> could someone tell me the result of   echo "$DESKTOP_SESSION"   please?
[19:35] <cousteau> (maybe I should move this to off-topic since it's not exactly support or at least not important one)
[19:35] <Mathsterk> xubuntu
[19:35] <cousteau> thanks
[19:36] <Mathsterk> just double checking or something?
[19:36] <cousteau> nope, don't have xubuntu on this machine
[19:43] <delt> heh, now i just need to figure out how the chroot and "real" environments can communicate via dbus ... if only there was some kind of "dbus-fs" .....
[19:43] <Sysi> I use virtualbox..
[19:44] <delt> other than symlinking the "real" dbus directory into the chroot env....
[19:44] <delt> yeah but emulation is waaay slower than running the software directly
[19:44] <delt> and it's kind of ridiculous to emulate your own cpu
[19:44] <Sysi> my cpu has virtualization support, no emulation
[19:45] <Sysi> biggest bottleneck should be I/O
[19:46] <delt> cpu level virtualization hmm... lets see what that is
[19:48] <Sysi> intel vt or amd-v
[19:49] <delt> .... is there a way to mount the same tmpfs at 2 or more mount points
[19:49] <delt> ?
[21:06] <Marzata> why ntp is not working on xubu 12.04?
[21:10] <knome> i don't know, but that isn't a very good support question. try with "what can i do to troubleshoot why ntp doesn't work in 12.04" - and no, i don't know
[21:21] <Marzata> but thanks!
[21:23] <mongy> check the logs?
[21:41] <delt> HEH THIS IS AWESOME!! i'm booted into my regular (slackware) system, and i'm running my whole xubuntu desktop on a separate X server :D :D :D
[21:42] <delt> using just chroot, no virtual-machine stuff
[21:42] <Mathsterk> delt: cool
[21:43] <delt> question: the other day i had to change my graphics card, since then openGL apps (like that neat OSX style dock) always have a solid white background instead of transparent
[21:43] <delt> same thing happens right now, from the chroot-ed xubuntu
[21:43] <delt> same dock running normally in slackware is fine....
[21:44] <delt> and 3d games work fine in both systems (except sound in quake3 when actually booting to xubu)
[21:45] <delt> now the os-x style dock (it's called "cairo") has a solid black background (in the xubu desktop) but otherwise it seems to be working fine
[21:47] <delt> except it's rather annoying because it's always in the front (normally transparent when unused) which right now causes an opaque rectangle always covering the lower 2 inches of the screen
[21:48] <delt> weird thing is, running on the slackware Xserver (even from the xubu root) works fine.... must be a config issue with the Xserver itself
[22:02] <mongy> delt, how did you do that other distro in another X ?