[00:00] <Pandemic187> hmm
[00:00] <Pandemic187> i have .themes, but for some reason it seems to be recognized as an archive
[00:00] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: that's the archive you just renamed with mv
[00:00] <Pandemic187> umm..
[00:01] <TheSheep> just rename it to something else
[00:01] <Pandemic187> okay
[00:01] <brianski> shoot, i just installed ubuntu instead of xubuntu... is there a list somewhere of packages i should remove before i apt-get install xubuntu-desktop? (i have very little disk space on this machine)
[00:01] <Pandemic187> so the theme file is a .tar.gz within a .tar.gz; do i have to unpack both?
[00:01] <TheSheep> brianski: I think you can just remove ubuntu-desktop and then do autoremove
[00:01] <brianski> is that enough?
[00:02] <brianski> hmm, i guess i'll find out
[00:02] <brianski> thanks TheSheep
[00:02] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: yes, but thunar should unpack both at the same time
[00:02] <Pandemic187> ah, i got it!
[00:02] <Pandemic187> thanks
[00:03] <Pandemic187> Would you mind answering one more question, TheSheep?
[00:04] <Pandemic187> Oh wait, I might not need help.
[00:04] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: there are two kinds of themes, gtk and xfce themes. the first is for general looks, and you choose it in UI settings, the other is for the window borders, and you set it in WM settings
[00:04] <Pandemic187> Or maybe I do.
[00:05] <Pandemic187> Ah.
[00:05] <Pandemic187> Okay
[00:05] <Pandemic187> Are icon themes installed in a similar fashion?
[00:05] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: yes, but they go to .icons
[00:05] <Pandemic187> Makes sense.
[00:06] <TheSheep> there are also system-wide locations: /usr/share/themes and /usr/share/icons, but you need administrator rights to write there
[00:06] <TheSheep> you can start thunar in admin mode with 'gksu thunar'
[00:06] <Pandemic187> Okay
[00:06] <TheSheep> themes you put there are visible for all users
[00:06] <Pandemic187> Well I only have one user, so it doesn't really matter.
[00:07] <Pandemic187> Hmm
[00:07] <Pandemic187> I assume icon themes need to be unpacked within the .icons folder?
[00:08] <TheSheep> yes
[00:08] <solomo1> how do i change my system fonts in xubuntu?
[00:08] <solomo1> in ubuntu there's just preferences -> fonts or whatever but i can't find such a thing in xubuntu... it probably doesn't help that it's on a tv so it's quite difficult to make out everything until i do manage to increase the font sizes :)
[00:08] <TheSheep> solomo1: settings->user interface settings
[00:09] <Pandemic187> Strange, I did that for the icon theme and it didn't show up
[00:10] <solomo1> TheSheep: thanks a bunch :)
[00:10] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: is there a index.theme file in there?
[00:10] <Pandemic187> umm
[00:11] <Pandemic187> There are lots of folders
[00:11] <TheSheep> it should be in the same folder where 16x16, 24x24, etc. folders are
[00:11] <Pandemic187> I don't see folders like that, and I know what you are talking about
[00:12] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: so what kind of folders are there?
[00:12] <slow-motion> n8
[00:12] <Pandemic187> actions, apps, devices, emblems, mimetypes, places, states
[00:12] <Pandemic187> status*
[00:13] <TheSheep> so it's one level lower already
[00:13] <TheSheep> what's inside, .png or .svg files?
[00:13] <Pandemic187> svg
[00:13] <TheSheep> then make a folder called 'scalable' and move them into it
[00:13] <Pandemic187> within .themes?
[00:13] <Pandemic187> err within .icons?
[00:14] <TheSheep> it should be .themes/ThemeName/scalable/thesvgfiles.svg
[00:14] <TheSheep> sorry
[00:14] <TheSheep> .icons
[00:14] <TheSheep> not .themes
[00:14] <TheSheep> sorry again
[00:14] <Pandemic187> umm
[00:14] <Pandemic187> okay
[00:14] <TheSheep> it should be .themes/ThemeName/scalable/applications/thesvgfiles.svg
[00:14] <TheSheep> it should be .icons/ThemeName/scalable/applications/thesvgfiles.svg
[00:14] <Pandemic187> it's strange because the folder does not have the icon theme's name
[00:14] <TheSheep> etc.
[00:15] <Pandemic187> okay..
[00:15] <TheSheep> probably somewhat raw, not prepared for distribution
[00:15] <Pandemic187> perhaps
[00:16] <Pandemic187> so i created a folder for the theme name since there wasn't one
[00:16] <Pandemic187> now i have .icons/Crashbit/scalable...
[00:18] <TheSheep> hehe, somehow I knew it's this theme
[00:18] <Pandemic187> lol
[00:18] <Pandemic187> I like it a lot
[00:18] <Pandemic187> Is that right though?
[00:18] <Pandemic187> Because I still don't see it under the theme manager.
[00:19] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: they don't hae the index file, they are just images
[00:19] <Pandemic187> so does that mean they have to be applied manually somehow?
[00:20] <TheSheep> Pandemic187: I suppose you could copy the index file from some other icon theme in /usr/share/icons
[00:20] <TheSheep> and see if that works
[00:20] <TheSheep> but I would just wait for the official release
[00:20] <Pandemic187> Copy it to where exactly?
[00:20] <Pandemic187> yeah that's probably a good idea.
[00:20] <TheSheep> to the .icons/CrashBit/
[00:20] <Pandemic187> But I think that a previous realease had worked better.
[00:20] <Pandemic187> aka it had an index file.
[00:20] <Pandemic187> oh well.
[00:21] <Pandemic187> Maybe I'll just use black-whtite
[00:21] <Pandemic187> white*
[00:22] <Pandemic187> Anyway, thanks for your help!
[00:22] <Pandemic187> Dinner time though.
[00:57] <march> goodnight
[00:58] <march> 02:00 AM here ;)
[01:13] <Pandemic187> hi
[01:33] <Pandemic187> Anyone use the ALSA mixer on Xubuntu?
[02:09] <narius> can someone help me get my wireless card working?
[02:56] <Zrax`> Hai people!
[02:57] <Zrax`> I was wondering is anyone knows how to connect to a windows computer and access the shared files on a network?
[03:08] <thruxton> Zrax`: look for an smb client
[03:10] <Zrax`> whats smb?
[03:11] <thruxton> Zrax`: smb is file sharing protocol
[03:13] <thruxton> Zrax`: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=202605
[03:13] <Zrax`> Thankyou
[03:13] <Zrax`> <3
[03:15] <thruxton> Zrax`: that might not be the most up to date but it will give you an idea, you might even have samba installed, I'm not sure if its in the default install
[03:15] <Zrax`> Yeah, I do recall seeing a samba
[03:15] <Zrax`> Oh and just one more question
[03:15] <Zrax`> Whats the difference between all those different desktops?
[03:16] <Zrax`> Like KDE and Gnome and xfce
[03:17] <thruxton> Zrax`: they all do the same job, Gnome and KDE are the two largest and full featured, each is built with its own `toolkit' so they look and feel entirely different
[03:17] <thruxton> xfce4 attempts to be more lightweight whilst still retaining functionality
[03:18] <thruxton> Zrax`: nothing stopping you from trying them all out
[03:18] <Zrax`> Ok, umm, do some programs only work with certain desktops?
[03:19] <thruxton> gennerally no, lets say you are running gnome and wish to install a kde app, that kde app will need some of the basic kde libraries to run, so on startup it might feel a bit slower
[03:19] <thruxton> but once loaded it will be fine
[03:19] <Zrax`> Ok, so...
[03:19] <Zrax`> Each desktop comes with its own libraries?
[03:20] <thruxton> yes
[03:20] <thruxton> xfce and gnome share some of the same gtk libs though
[03:20] <Zrax`> So if those libraries arn't there and a program needs them to run, I will need to install the libraries for it to run?
[03:21] <thruxton> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Desktops
[03:21] <thruxton> Zrax`: yes, but apt will install them for you
[03:22] <Zrax`> Automaticly?
[03:22] <thruxton> Zrax`: thats the intent yes
[03:23] <thruxton> sometimes there are problems but debian/ubuntu has a very good packaging system
[03:23] <Zrax`> Cool
[03:23] <Zrax`> Thankyou once more
[03:23] <thruxton> np, good luck!
[03:24] <Zrax`> No doubt I will be back in here again at a later stage :P
[03:24] <thruxton> :)
[05:03] <ronnie_> having some audio problems with mixer, anyone mind helping? http://i6.tinypic.com/72tpppc.png
[05:04] <ronnie_> don't know if ubuntu mixer is same as xfce one
[05:04] <ronnie_> maybe I should toy with alsamixer some
[09:56] <brianski> does xubuntu use significantly less cpu than gnome?
[09:57] <brianski> i mean i know it uses less ram, but what about cpu?
[10:00] <TheSheep> brianski: by default, it uses applications that are faster and require less cpu
[10:00] <TheSheep> brianski: for example, abiword instead of openoffice
[10:00] <brianski> yeah, but what about the gui itself
[10:01] <brianski> i mean, i mainly use firefox, pidgin, perl, and cc
[10:01] <brianski> does it use some sort of firefox on a diet? ;-)
[10:01] <TheSheep> I don't think those four differ
[10:02] <TheSheep> you could try Opera instead of firefox, I guess
[10:02] <TheSheep> or epiphany
[10:03] <brianski> ugh i've tried epiphany
[10:03] <brianski> and opera doesn't do much or me
[10:03] <brianski> guess i'll just stick with my bloated gnome for now
[10:03] <brianski> thanks tho
[10:04] <TheSheep> ah, and xubuntu doesn't have those .Net plugins :)
[10:05] <TheSheep> brianski: one thing I noticed is that using a fast gtk theme engine helps a lot -- the Human theme is not very fast
[10:05] <TheSheep> brianski: xubuntu uses Murrina which is much faster
[10:18] <Pandemic187> Anyone alive?
[10:26] <kwhk> hi, any one has upgraded to pidgin 2.3.1 on xubuntu?
[13:07] <maxi_> Hi, I'am using Xubuntu 7.04
[13:08] <ere4si> !hi
[13:08] <ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #xubuntu!
[13:08] <maxi_> I've a problem with screen saver setting
[13:08] <ere4si> what happens?
[13:08] <maxi_> When try to access to Screen Saver Configuration the system hang
[13:09] <ere4si> tried a reboot?
[13:09] <maxi_> yes
[13:11] <maxi_> Then I can't disabled the screensaver
[13:14] <ere4si> try this page - http://linuxreviews.org/quicktips/screenblanking/
[13:17] <maxi_> Are there any manner to change screensaver setting by hand, modify a config file maybe?
[13:19] <ere4si> To turn off screen blanking:  xset s off
[13:19] <ere4si> a quote from that page
[13:22] <ere4si> xscreensaver can be stopped and terminated with xscreensaver-command -exit. add to apps-system-pref-sessions-startup
[13:23] <maxi_> ok, I will try
[13:24] <ere4si> k
[13:26] <maxi_> I tried to set off with xset s off, but this not work
[13:28] <maxi_> when I try to access at screensaver setting the system hang and I must reboot
[13:33] <ere4si> in a terminal type   xset    and see the last options - does it say anything about screensaver maxi_?
[13:35] <maxi_> doing a xset -q, the screen saver config are:
[13:35] <maxi_> prefer blanking: yes
[13:36] <maxi_> allow exposure: yes
[13:36] <maxi_> timeout:0   cycle:0
[13:37] <ere4si> I installed vlc to watch movies 'cause it has an option to disable the screensaver
[13:37] <maxi_> sorry, I'am a linux beginner :(
[13:37] <ere4si> is that what your trouble is?
[13:37] <ere4si> watching movies :)
[13:38] <ere4si> try   xset s noblank
[13:46] <maxi_> my main problem is when I try to update Xubuntu 7.04 to Xubuntu 7.10, then after some time, apparently the screen saver begin to work and the installation hang (because the system hang of course)
[13:48] <TheSheep> maxi_: update from the command line
[13:48] <TheSheep> maxi_: press alt+ctrl+f1 to switch to a text console
[13:53] <ere4si> do it from the login prompt
[14:06] <maristo> hello
[14:06] <maristo> I have not questions...
[14:06] <maristo> :)
[14:10] <thruxton> maristo: just ask them
[14:10] <ere4si> maristo: lucky you :)
[14:54] <ICQnumber_>  hi, howto start an application as root in alt f2 window, something like kdesu in kde?
[15:01] <TheSheep> sudo
[16:09] <maxi_> Is possible update xubuntu 7.04 to 7.10 from CD ?
[16:10] <maxi_> Are the any comand line for this ?
[16:11] <TheSheep> maxi_: you'd just have to add the cd as a package source
[16:13] <maxi_> sorry, how can do it?
[16:23] <TheSheep> maxi_: I'm not sure
[16:23] <TheSheep> !upgrade
[16:23] <ubotu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
[16:28] <xubnik> Good morning!
[16:30] <xubnik> I'm new on using Linux systems, so I started with xubuntu. My first "problem": How to playback .mp3-files? - I tried with a double-click, and a media player opened, but it didn't playback, but it shut down.
[16:30] <WinMac> I have tried to install xubuntu 7.10 on my other computer, When i put in my live cd, i select "Start or Install Xubuntu", the linux kernal loads, the Xubuntu loading thing moves left and right, and something called "Busy" somthing loads and i have  a list of commands
[16:31] <xubnik> Which driver do I have to install?
[16:31] <xubnik> And where can I get it?
[16:32] <TheSheep> !mp3
[16:32] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[16:34] <xubnik> Thanks! I'll try to install extra plugins.
[16:40] <xubnik> So I'm installing vlc player now (apt-get install vlc*)
[16:41] <TheSheep> good choice
[16:41] <TheSheep> for movies at least
[16:41] <TheSheep> for music I recommend mpd+sonata
[16:41] <xubnik> Yes, I heared about this before, it opens files like streams, so it could read damaged files, too.. ;)
[16:42] <xubnik> mpd and sonata? - this I didn't heared.
[16:42] <TheSheep> xubnik: mpd is nice beacuse it runs on yuor computer as service, starts playing before you log out and plays even when you swithc users. Sonata is just a kidn of remote control for it
[16:42] <TheSheep> before you log in
[16:43] <TheSheep> you can also control it from another computer
[16:43] <xubnik> Oh, nice.
[16:43] <xubnik> I think I hae to get it. ;)
[16:43] <TheSheep> there are a lot of clinet (controllers) for mpd, I use Sonata and mpc (a command line client, for binding to keys)
[16:43] <xubnik> Thank you for this tip.
[16:44] <xubnik> Ok, and which ones are GUI-clients/-remotecontrol applications for mpd?
[16:46] <xubnik> If my English is bad, I'm sorry: I'm from Germany. ;)
[16:48] <TheSheep> xubnik: I know of Sonata, Pympd, Gmpc
[16:48] <TheSheep> xubnik: your English is very good
[16:49] <xubnik> Ok, Thank you.
[16:49] <TheSheep> xubnik: there is a list at http://musicpd.org/clients.shtml
[16:49] <TheSheep> xubnik: there is even a panel plugin for xfce :)
[16:53] <TheSheep> omg, gbemol looks like another amarok clone :(
[16:57] <patogen> How do I connect to a wlan?
[16:58] <patogen> Using iwlist eth1 scan I get two available
[16:59] <patogen> one is mine and the other is my neighbour
[16:59] <TheSheep> patogen: the simpliest way is through system->network
[17:01] <patogen> Hehe thank you, worked like a charm :D
[17:01] <patogen> How do I start that from the terminal?
[17:02] <TheSheep> iwconfig eth1 essid any
[17:02] <TheSheep> or essid 'your essid here'
[17:02] <TheSheep> !wifi
[17:02] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[17:03] <PsynoKhi0> greetings, shouldn't xubuntu gutsy be able automount USB pens out of the box?
[17:03] <TheSheep> patogen: yes
[17:03] <TheSheep> sorry
[17:03] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: yes
[17:04] <PsynoKhi0> hmm
[17:04] <PsynoKhi0> HAL detects the hotplug but that's it
[17:04] <PsynoKhi0> hang on
[17:04] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: you can configure it in thunar in edit->prefernces->advanced->configure volume manager
[17:05] <xubnik> TheSheep: OK. Now I have installed mpd and sonata, but if I set up my music folder (external drive), and search for *.mp3 file name, he doesn't find anything..
[17:05] <patogen> TheSheep: Thank you very much :-)
[17:05] <TheSheep> xubnik: hmm... is it readable for user mdp?
[17:05] <TheSheep> mpd?
[17:05] <xubnik> I don't know. Is there a user "mpd"?
[17:06] <TheSheep> xubnik: there is since the moment you installed mpd
[17:06] <PsynoKhi0> TheSheep: yep, every box is ticked in there for removable media
[17:06] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: then it seems it has trouble detecting/mounting it
[17:07] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: check dmesg
[17:07] <xubnik> It's a FAT-system (I'm using windows normally), I don't know if xubuntu doesn't give permission for other users to access external drives.
[17:07] <TheSheep> xubnik: it may be the case
[17:07] <TheSheep> xubnik: you can try and mount it so that it's readable for all users (there are tutorials) or just use some simplier music player
[17:08] <xubnik> Wait, I'll try..
[17:10] <PsynoKhi0> TheSheep: usbview doesn't recognize the drive... usbdevfs missing?
[17:10] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: unlikely
[17:11] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: did you try to mount it manually?
[17:11] <PsynoKhi0> TheSheep: no
[17:11] <PsynoKhi0> not yet
[17:12] <PsynoKhi0> trying to exhaust other possibilities first
[17:12] <PsynoKhi0> ok I have dmesg here, what should I look for?
[17:12] <TheSheep> look at the last few lines after you insert the pen
[17:13] <TheSheep> it should tell about how it found a new device and stuff
[17:13] <TheSheep> look if there are any errors
[17:13] <PsynoKhi0> ah you mean dmesg from a terminal, not the logfile... hang on
[17:14] <TheSheep> it's the same
[17:14] <PsynoKhi0> here goes: sda1
[17:14] <TheSheep> if it's more than 3 lines, use pastebin please
[17:15] <PsynoKhi0> ok will do
[17:20] <PsynoKhi0> TheSheep: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50979/
[17:20] <PsynoKhi0> a firewal event slipped in there but that should be it
[17:21] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: looks good
[17:29] <PsynoKhi0> I think I managed once to make usbview see the USB pen with a modprobe stunt, but that was when hotplug didn't work at all
[17:41] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: have you tried googling for your pen make/model and linux/ubuntu?
[17:41] <PsynoKhi0> on it right now
[17:44] <WinMac> I put in my Xubuntu 7.10, select "Start or Install Xubuntu", the Linux Kernal loads, then the Xubuntu logo shows up, and the loading bar moves back and forth, then i get a "BusyBox v1.1.3" How can I install Xubuntu, the cd worked on my other computer.
[17:52] <TheSheep> WinMac: you can try with different boot options
[17:52] <TheSheep> WinMac: you get a help screen when you press f1 at the boot menu
[17:52] <TheSheep> WinMac: you can also try searching the forums for your particular make/model of the computer, maybe someone had already a similar problem
[17:53] <WinMac> I dont get it, It installed 100% fine on a slower computer, and now it wont work on this faster one
[17:54] <WinMac> i'll try the F1 thing now
[17:54] <TheSheep> WinMac: it might require some boot options if the hardware is not 100% compatible
[17:56] <PsynoKhi0> USB 2.0 devices are backward compatible with the USB 1.1 standard anre't they?
[17:56] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: they are
[17:57] <PsynoKhi0> thought I was getting nuts
[17:57] <nanonyme> PsynoKhi0, yes, at USB 1.1 speeds
[17:59] <PsynoKhi0> gnome-volume-manager is up and running too...
[18:00] <PsynoKhi0> or is it...
[18:01] <PsynoKhi0> ermm ps -ef | grep gnome-volume-manager returns 11517 11411  3 18:51 pts/0    00:00:00 grep gnome-volume-manager
[18:05] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: thunar has its own volume manager
[18:06] <PsynoKhi0> ah
[18:07] <TheSheep> and I think it doesn't have to run all the time -- dbus will start it when needed
[18:43] <PsynoKhi0> ok I even have gnome-mount installed... clueless
[18:53] <PsynoKhi0> thunar-volman is there too...
[18:56] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: try mounting it with mount
[18:57] <TheSheep> PsynoKhi0: as root
[19:04] <PsynoKhi0> sudo mount -vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbkey ?
[19:05] <PsynoKhi0> ffs I so hate how Firefox ends up eating all my CPU power after a while
[19:09] <PeckaH> dual core -> it eats only one core :P
[19:09] <totalwormface> :D
[19:09] <PeckaH> and BOINC eats the other core..
[19:13] <Pandemic187> Can anyone help with configuring my sound?
[19:21] <PsynoKhi0> Pandemic187:  what soundcard are you suing?
[19:21] <PsynoKhi0> using even
[19:21] <Pandemic187> An SB Audigy 2
[19:22] <Pandemic187> My sound works fine in Ubuntu when I use the ALSA mixer, but that doesn't seem to be an option in Xubuntu, PsynoKhi0
[19:25] <Pandemic187> hello?
[19:25] <PsynoKhi0> do you see the sound mixer plugin on your top desktop bar?
[19:25] <PsynoKhi0> or wherever you get it
[19:26] <Pandemic187> Oh good
[19:26] <Pandemic187> Well, I added one
[19:26] <Pandemic187> There wasn't one there already.
[19:26] <PsynoKhi0> ok
[19:26] <Pandemic187> So I do have two device options.
[19:26] <PsynoKhi0> can you increase the volume?
[19:27] <Pandemic187> yes
[19:27] <PsynoKhi0> oh... Audigy and AC97?
[19:31] <PsynoKhi0> nvm, is it working now?
[19:31] <PsynoKhi0> ok what directory should I mount my USB to?
[19:33] <PsynoKhi0> something like /media/usb ?
[19:34] <thruxton> PsynoKhi0: yeah, /media/ is a good place for removable stuff
[19:34] <PsynoKhi0> ty
[19:35] <PsynoKhi0> fat or vfat as a file system? the key has files from a WinXP machine
[19:37] <thruxton> most likely vfat
[19:37] <thruxton> try it, mount will tell you if its wrong
[19:39] <PsynoKhi0> ok I tried /media/usb mountpoint doesn't exist
[19:39] <thruxton> sudo mkdir /media/usbdrive/
[19:39] <thruxton> or whatever you want to call it
[19:39] <PsynoKhi0> I don't want to call it anything I want it to automount :(
[19:40] <thruxton> you still need a mount point
[19:40] <thruxton> your hanging another filesystem off the / tree, it needs to know where to put it
[19:41] <PsynoKhi0> ermm are USB mp3 players handled differently from plain USB keys?
[19:42] <thruxton> it depends, I have /media/ipod/ for example and my ipod can be read directly just like any other usb drive
[19:42] <Pandemic187> i'm having connection problems - i'll be back
[19:44] <PsynoKhi0> ok no error message when mounting by hand... trying to access the key's content now
[19:46] <Pandemic187> ugh
[19:46] <Pandemic187> I'm back..
[19:46] <PsynoKhi0> wb
[19:46] <PsynoKhi0> ok so I can see the files in Thunar
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> took a while to show up though
[19:48] <PsynoKhi0> ermm can't see anything anymore :)
[19:49] <PsynoKhi0> the key disconnected itself...
[19:49] <PsynoKhi0> it isn't appearing in the device manager anymore
[19:52] <PsynoKhi0> is there some kind of timeout on USB hubs??
[19:53] <thruxton> not that I know of
[19:53] <thruxton> brb
[19:57] <PsynoKhi0> alright, dmesg returns a lot of stuff like this
[19:57] <PsynoKhi0> [28212.608000] FAT: Directory bread(block 24891) failed
[19:57] <PsynoKhi0> [28212.608000] scsi 4:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to dead device
[20:03] <Niklas_25> I did CTRL+Z on a process and it stopped. How do I resume that process? And, when I have got my process back, how do I get a running process into the background without stopping it? CTRL+Z stopping the process...
[20:05] <proog> how do i make a launcher accept a file being drg'n'dropped on it?
[20:06] <proog> nalioth, do you know how o make a launcher in xfce accept file arguments?
[20:19] <Ec1ipseR> !ru
[20:19] <ubotu> Пожалуйста посетите #ubuntu-ru для получения помощи на русском языке  / Pozhalujsta posetite #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke
[20:40] <Laney> Anyone know how to stop the display from suspending after 10 minutes? It happens no matter what I disable (even DPMS in xorg.conf)...
[20:43] <PsynoKhi0> standby mode or blank screensaver?
[20:45] <Laney> PsynoKhi0: I changed my screensaver to something else to see if it was that, and I get a blank screen after 10 minutes. I also increased all of the timeouts I could find to above 10 minutes and it still cuts off exactly on 10.
[20:46] <PsynoKhi0> Laney: ah... sorry I don't know :(
[20:46] <protocolX> hi guys
[20:46] <protocolX> happy new years all
[20:47] <protocolX> just wonderin..ibm notpad ...p2  ..64 megs of ram..will xbuntu run on it
[20:48] <protocolX> im new to linux..been done with Windows for a while...Macs whch i use are a tad bit pricey for my taste..so linux here i come
[20:48] <protocolX> any help would be apreciated
[20:49] <PsynoKhi0> xubuntu should run as long as you install from an Alternate CD and stay away from big apps like OpenOffice (stick to AbiWord and Gnumeric)
[20:50] <PsynoKhi0> you could try even lighter distro like Puppy Linux
[20:50] <PsynoKhi0> och Slax Popcorn
[20:50] <protocolX> noted
[20:50] <protocolX> thanks man
[20:50] <PsynoKhi0> though Xubuntu has a larger support and better translation (if it' important to you)
[20:51] <PsynoKhi0> it gets updated more regularly too, and the community is kinda big
[20:52] <protocolX> like i said i new to linux..i gonna buy myself a new but cheap laptop, hows wifi support in linux
[20:52] <PeckaH> good
[20:52] <protocolX> ya, im really liking what im discovering online when it comes to community, i think linux is gonna be great and breath of fresh here
[20:52] <protocolX> aier
[20:52] <protocolX> air
[20:53] <protocolX> damm stubby fingers. :=)
[20:53] <protocolX> I'm a hug MAC fan, but im finding harder and harder to justify the prices they charge
[20:55] <protocolX> Gotta split, thanks all...ill be seeing ya around
[20:57] <PsynoKhi0> ah crap, forgot puppy linux wasn't that great to start from the live CD with less than 128MB
[20:58] <tuxic1> what is Puppy linux
[20:58] <PsynoKhi0> a small linus distro
[20:58] <PsynoKhi0> linux*
[20:59] <tuxic1> isnt this the xubuntu chat?
[20:59] <PsynoKhi0> he was asking if Xubuntu would work on his old comp
[20:59] <tuxic1> oh ok
[21:00] <tuxic1> nm then
[21:30] <rokra> Hello
[21:32] <PsynoKhi0> hi
[21:34] <PsynoKhi0> Laney?
[21:34] <Laney> PsynoKhi0?
[21:34] <PsynoKhi0> just a wild guess, do you have ACPI on?
[21:35] <Laney> PsynoKhi0: Er, I don't know. How do I check?
[21:35] <Laney> (I'm seeing this on two machines)
[21:38] <PsynoKhi0> several ways I can think of.... /var/log/dmesg file, ps -ef | grep acpi in a terminal... the hal device manager(
[21:39] <Laney> I see an acpid process
[21:41] <PsynoKhi0> that's for energy management
[21:42] <PsynoKhi0> but lsmod | grep acpi shows if ti's loaded
[21:42] <PsynoKhi0> it's*
[21:43] <Laney> I see asus_acpi on my laptop and acpi_cpufreq on desktop
[21:43] <Laney> Shall I try rmmod?
[21:44] <PsynoKhi0> only those 2?
[21:44] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/acpi is desktop's output
[21:45] <PsynoKhi0> I wouldn't touch it on the laptop
[21:45] <Laney> Can't see cpufreq having anything to do with it - seems like it's just for speedstep
[21:45] <PsynoKhi0> yup
[21:47]  * Laney grumbles
[21:47] <Laney> I asked on ubuntu-uk, hopefully they'll have some answers
[21:47] <PsynoKhi0> *note to self: dump wild guesses*
[22:33] <PsynoKhi0> anyone available?
[23:33] <rokra> PsynoKhi0: alway
[23:34] <PsynoKhi0> hehe
[23:34] <PsynoKhi0> can ACPI cause random disconnects from the USB hub on a pre-2000 PC?
[23:40] <PsynoKhi0> or maybe APIC?
[23:41] <crimsun> ACPI on pre-2000 machines?  Heh, yeah, can be very problematic.
[23:42] <crimsun> I don't think that's necessarily where I'd start troubleshooting hardware, however.
[23:43] <PsynoKhi0> hmmm APIC then
[23:43] <PsynoKhi0> ?
[23:43] <crimsun> do you have an AMD K6-2 or something?
[23:44] <PsynoKhi0> yes
[23:47] <crimsun> then it's probably not ACPI at all but apic as you alluded to.
[23:47] <crimsun> have you tried using " noapic nolapic"?
[23:48] <PsynoKhi0> not yet
[23:50] <PsynoKhi0> do I need to do update-grub after modifying the menu.lst file?
[23:51] <crimsun> yes
[23:52] <crimsun> presuming you edited the # KOPTS line
[23:52] <PsynoKhi0> alrighty I'll try that
[23:52] <crimsun> (or is it # KOPT?)
[23:52] <PsynoKhi0> do I need to add irqpolli pci=routeirq
[23:52] <PsynoKhi0> oops irqpoll*
[23:53] <crimsun> only if you need them
[23:53] <PsynoKhi0> how do I know? hehe
[23:55] <crimsun> you'll know. :-)
[23:58] <PsynoKhi0> that sounds scary :(


[16:35] <czajkowski> ogra_: ping
[16:52] <ogra_> czajkowski, yes ?
[16:54] <czajkowski> ogra_: mind if I pm you please ?
[20:03] <UndiFineD> o/
[20:04] <DarkwingDuck> o/
[20:04] <UndiFineD> who else is here ?
[20:05] <DarkwingDuck> I'm observing
[20:05] <UndiFineD> well, it looks like noone is going to come
[20:05] <DarkwingDuck> :(
[20:06] <UndiFineD> so much for regular meetings
[20:06] <DarkwingDuck> It'll
[20:06] <DarkwingDuck> It'll grow.
[20:06] <DarkwingDuck> Keep at it.
[20:06] <UndiFineD> I tend to
[20:07]  * DarkwingDuck nods
[20:07] <DarkwingDuck> Did you run a doodle poll?
[20:08] <UndiFineD> yes we did
[20:08] <DarkwingDuck> Buggers
[20:55] <czajkowski> DarkwingDuck: what meeting was it
[20:56] <DarkwingDuck> czajkowski: It was going to be a UBT Wiki meeting
[20:56] <czajkowski> a meeting over a wiki ?
[20:57] <UndiFineD> h.u.c/community


[12:05] <artnay> shall we start by having a wiki discussion?
[12:05] <Viper550> Spooky, I got KDE and KDM, and it didn't even give me Kubuntu stuff, oh yeah the new Kubuntu wall is simliar to the KDE 3.5 one for some reason.
[12:05] <bachler> hi all
[12:06] <lukacu> hello
[12:06] <artnay> hey bachler
[12:06] <Viper550> Maybe we should start on Kubuntu first
[12:06] <bachler> sry to be late
[12:06] <artnay> Viper550: and which part?
[12:06] <Viper550> We were just discussing my APT weirdness, let's talk KDM first
[12:07] <Viper550> You can guess where I got that idea from... :)
[12:07] <artnay> every *buntu should have its own Artwork subcategory. to do that, there's also need for unified structure between these *buntuArtwork pages
[12:09] <artnay> could we discuss about that structure? does anyone have suggestions as tree view lists?
[12:09] <Viper550> Maybe our default Kubuntu kdm should be based off this: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=24365
[12:09] <artnay> hey mhz_idle, you made it ;)
[12:10] <mhz_idle> not really, artnay sorry
[12:10] <mhz_idle> please read -artwork :(
[12:10] <artnay> mhz_idle: do you have that list?
[12:10] <Viper550> Oh wait, are we just discussing Wiki structure now, if yes, I will hide under KWall
[12:11] <bachler> are we discussing wiki structure or kde/kdm?
[12:11] <artnay> Viper550: that is the most important case at the moment. we can't expect people to participate if they are unable to find needed information
[12:11] <Viper550> Okay...
[12:12] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
[12:13] <artnay> when it comes to different *buntus, that page should tell which projects a person is attached to
[12:13] <lukacu> hi volvoguy
[12:13] <volvoguy> howdy all! what'd i miss? :)
[12:13] <artnay> so, after the discussion, could you all fill something like Kubuntu/KWin after your name
[12:14] <artnay> that would help a lot
[12:15] <artnay> what do you think? have you all read the context under /Artwork?
[12:15] <volvoguy> artnay, heading there now to catch up.
[12:15] <artnay> I don't want to have a monolog here :)
[12:15] <bachler> i have read it
[12:16] <volvoguy> ok. i'm there.
[12:16] <artnay> what topics would you like to discuss? I know there's lots of things listed, so can we take the most important ones on table
[12:16] <Viper550> I'm where? artworktodo list?
[12:17] <klepas> sorry I'm late :)
[12:17] <lukacu> klepas, hi
[12:17] <libervisco> hey klepas
[12:17] <Viper550> What wiki page are we discussing? /artwork ?
[12:18] <artnay> Viper550: mainly /*buntuArtwork
[12:18] <artnay>  /Artwork isn't that challenging
[12:19] <artnay> can we have a unified structure? are there people from Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu?
[12:19] <Riddell> I'm from Kubuntu
[12:19] <klepas> i think a unified structure would serve us best
[12:19] <manicka> <--Ubuntu
[12:19] <artnay> *nods for KDE*
[12:19] <volvoguy> artnay, one thing that was never clear to me was who we answered to. we can talk about all this stuff until we're blue in the face, but for the last release, all my contact with canonical people fell on deaf ears.
[12:19] <volvoguy> <-- Ubuntu
[12:19] <trevorv> I'm a Xubuntu user, not developer, but I can do some work on the wiki
[12:19] <bachler> why don't Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu adopt from the main Ubuntu page?
[12:20] <bachler> or wathever layout is the best
[12:20] <manicka> <--edubuntu as well
[12:20] <volvoguy> bachler, perhaps subpages rather than seperate pages?
[12:20] <artnay> volvoguy: did you contact them by mail?
[12:20] <volvoguy> artnay, yeah.
[12:20] <lukacu> <-- Ubuntu
[12:20] <Riddell> volvoguy: some of the ubuntu artwork is contracted out professionally so there's an issue of balancing community with the paid for stuff
[12:20] <Riddell> Kubuntu doesn't have that issue of course, I'm very welcome of all contributions :)
[12:21] <Viper550> What about some of my works that I put under the mailing list?
[12:21] <artnay> Riddell: true. canonical hasn't provided much guides and AUC is problematic, too
[12:21] <mhz> artnay: okis, I found a 'brake'
[12:21] <klepas> well let us do through the wiki issues first :)
[12:22] <artnay> Viper550: ML isn't the best place
[12:22] <klepas> Oh, did we do introductsions for any minutes purposes?
[12:22] <volvoguy> i had contact with administrative people as well as developers and artists at canonical - supposedly working with the community - but with very little response to my inquiries. i'm not trying to be a downer, but i think it's an issue that needs to be addressed before we put dozens or hundreds of manhours into our own work.
[12:22] <Viper550> Well, we've all been on it, and we've not minded. Also, they considered it for some new universe artwork package thingy
[12:23] <klepas> yep
[12:23] <Yetzero> I think contacting the 'big ones' at canonical should get priority
[12:23] <volvoguy> Viper550, that's a good point - if we're meant to be supplimental artwork, then it doesn't really matter what Canonical does. :)
[12:23] <Yetzero> as volvoguy said
[12:23] <klepas> this is something that needs to be fixed
[12:23] <artnay> volvoguy: there are rumours that canonical is hiring people to work on artwork
[12:23] <Viper550> Mailing List considered my new Glow wallpaper for universe artwork...
[12:24] <artnay> but we really don't know which parts
[12:24] <klepas> can this be brought up at something like the Community Council?
[12:24] <Yetzero> that's what we need to know first
[12:24] <volvoguy> artnay, that's the same situation as previous releases.
[12:24] <klepas> or elsewhere?
[12:24] <artnay> but we do know that canonical would like to have some community artwork
[12:25] <Viper550> This is OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE!!! Anyone can contribute anything!
[12:25] <artnay> sure, but it doesn't guarantee anything at all
[12:25] <libervisco> Hm, if there's this discrepancy between canonical official artworkers and community artworkers than that could be a problem, if the roles of both haven't been defined properly
[12:25] <Yetzero> in that case they'll need only proffesional quality artwork, after all, it's the image of their product
[12:25] <klepas> so can this be brought up at a community council meeting?>
[12:25] <Yetzero> so we need to be clear about what we can or cannot do
[12:25] <klepas> or where should it be brought up?
[12:25] <artnay> libervisco: have our goals defined? *g*
[12:25] <volvoguy> for breezy we got a last minute email from (nameless dev) asking where all our contributions were and a few of us spent hours getting things together, only to be completely disregarded when it came to the release.
[12:26] <Viper550> Image of their OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE, remember those 3 little words that Ubuntu stands on? Remember them like the Alamo!
[12:26] <bachler> are we slipping away from the wikilayout problem?
[12:26] <klepas> yep
[12:26] <klepas> lets get that through first
[12:26] <artnay> bachler: we already slipped
[12:26] <libervisco> artnay, heh well, I don't have anything like that, just making an observation, but anything can be achieved in a good discussion :)
[12:26] <klepas> working backwards through the contents of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
[12:26] <mhz> Viper550: you are right on that, but the idea behind 'organizing' is to avoid double work, is to advance better
[12:26] <Viper550> Meowth, that's right! (I just had to do that)
[12:27] <volvoguy> remember... i'm an ubuntu fanatic all the way, so i'm not trying to pick a fight... just trying to bring past issues to light.
[12:27] <mhz> klepas: this can perfectly be raise in CC
[12:27] <klepas> yep
[12:27] <klepas> mhz: good
[12:27] <Riddell> volvoguy: were there requests for specific artwork that you answered?
[12:27] <Yetzero> that's something we need to know beforehand
[12:28] <Yetzero> so we can focus on getting that done
[12:28] <artnay> well it didn't work last time, but we have plenty of time before dappers get wild
[12:28] <volvoguy> Riddell, mostly - it was background images being looked for and we presented at least a dozen.
[12:28] <mhz> How many of you guys have been editing wiki pages on regular basis?
[12:28] <Gnobdy> hey
[12:28] <artnay> hi Gnobdy
[12:28] <klepas> Guys, keeping on track with our improvised agenda would be helpful. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList)
[12:28] <klepas> let's discuss the wiki issue
[12:29] <bachler> yeah
[12:29] <klepas> and then move on
[12:29] <volvoguy> by the way, while i was gone, did sonebody else get voted as art team coordinator?
[12:29] <mhz> klepas: yuo
[12:29] <mhz> yup
[12:29] <bachler> so, volvoguy said something about subcategories?
[12:29] <Viper550> Also, you goofed up the ending, KDM is a display manager. KDM is to GDM as KDE is to GNOME
[12:29] <mhz> How many of you guys have been editing wiki pages on regular basis?
[12:29] <klepas> wiki, guys
[12:29] <klepas> mhz: i have
[12:29] <mhz> (i ask that to know what the basis of our discussion will be)
[12:29] <mhz> klepas: thx
[12:30] <Viper550> Let's talk about the gold, the actual artwork...
[12:30] <klepas> i tried updating some of the pages. they sure are dusty ;)
[12:30] <klepas> Viper550: there is a sort of agenda - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList - let us work from that
[12:30] <artnay> we could have at least two people editing a specified /*buntuArtwork
[12:30] <Gnobdy> I think the defualt gtk theme needs upgrading for Dapper
[12:30] <volvoguy> this is my first attempt at getting back into the swing of things after my surgery. no wiki editing for me lately.
[12:30] <mhz> I have some experience on moin wiki and I have read what artnay proposes. I agree with the need to structure our contents
[12:30] <Viper550> It is having upgrades, Dapper Flight 2 has a new Cairo enabled Human theme
[12:31] <klepas> Guys, wiki please
[12:31] <klepas> two groups talking about different things is hard
[12:31] <mhz> Many users either just dont edit or just dont get the content they look for
[12:31] <Viper550> GTK theme is on the wiki!
[12:31] <klepas> in one channel
[12:31] <volvoguy> yeah. shall we go through the todo?
[12:31] <mhz> that is mainly due to the freedom wiki gives
[12:31] <Gnobdy> Viper550 I think the colours need to change more specifically
[12:31] <klepas> Viper550: we're working backwards :)
[12:31] <mhz> (which is a good freedom)
[12:31] <Gnobdy> the redish brown is ugly
[12:31] <Viper550> No, that happens AFTER Dapper according to the Shuttleworth memoirs
[12:32] <artnay> oh, something green: http://hdr.unk.fi/~artnay/leaf_by_machine6featUbuntu.png :) *seriously, let's focus on wiki*
[12:32] <mhz> ok... Are we discussing WIKI or ART ?
[12:32] <Gnobdy> he said it could change to something other than brown after dapper not that the shade of brown couldn't change this release
[12:32] <Viper550> ART!!!!!!!
[12:32] <libervisco> WIKI
[12:32] <volvoguy> i think we only have control over alternate themes anyway - not the defaults.
[12:32] <mhz> :D
[12:32] <klepas> i propose wiki
[12:32] <klepas> it is important
[12:32] <lukacu> WIKI about ART
[12:32] <Viper550> If that is the case, I run and hide under KWall
[12:32] <bachler> artnay: good one, :-P, yeah lets keep to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
[12:32] <artnay> yeah, wiki is the first priority
[12:33] <Viper550> The ART on the WIKI?
[12:33] <klepas> Guys. we're working through it backwards
[12:33] <klepas> so wiki first
[12:33] <artnay> Viper550: no, let's use AUC for submitting art
[12:33] <klepas> mailing list issues next
[12:33] <mhz> Viper550: to do that we need to structure the wiki to our ART needs, first
[12:33] <mhz> ok, so we are all in favoru of wiki 1st?
[12:33] <klepas> the wiki is very important
[12:34] <mhz> ok
[12:34] <lukacu> ok
[12:34] <klepas> yep
[12:34] <Viper550> What is this AUC you talk about?
[12:34] <klepas> art.ubunut.com
[12:34] <mhz> How many of you are already editing wiki pages?
[12:34] <Yetzero> let's follow the agenda, wiki first
[12:34] <klepas> *ubuntu
[12:34] <bachler> can anyone explain the problem with the *buntuArtwork pages so that everyone understands whats wring with them
[12:34] <Viper550> Oh, just figured that out 1 second before you said that
[12:34] <artnay> to discuss artwork in specified project, there would be /Artwork -> /*buntuArtwork -> /UbuntuMetacityArtworkDiscussion
[12:34] <artnay> and one could attach an image with it
[12:35] <artnay> but AUC would be improved and that would be the first place to submit artwork
[12:35] <klepas> that is logical
[12:35] <artnay> screenshots could belong on ubuntuforums
[12:35] <mhz> artnay: that would be as messy as it is now
[12:35] <klepas> let's discuss each section
[12:35] <Viper550> But, that requires registeration for large thumbnails!
[12:35] <artnay> mhz: I don't know. we need a unified structure of /*buntuArtwork
[12:35] <mhz> What does ArtWork need a wiki for?
[12:36] <klepas> the /Artwork would be a central page
[12:36] <Viper550> wiki.ubuntu.com
[12:36] <artnay> mhz: ok, let's keep it ArtWork then
[12:36] <mhz> hehe
[12:36] <mhz> sorry
[12:36] <mhz> I forgot about that
[12:36] <volvoguy> mhz, so we know what we're working on, and new people know what to do when they join the project
[12:36] <klepas> yep
[12:36] <mhz> volvoguy: ok, then
[12:36] <klepas> next is /*buntuArtwork
[12:37] <mhz> What are the common 'areas for each ArtWork flavour?
[12:37] <klepas> for each respectively: Kubuntu. Ubuntu. Xubuntu, Edubuntu and so fort
[12:37] <klepas> *forth
[12:37] <bachler> Logo
[12:37] <artnay> mhz: there's some listed at /ArtworkTodoList
[12:37] <Viper550> Let's do Artnay's idea
[12:37] <manicka> then the wiki must clearly outline how the projects are progressing and what needs doing
[12:37] <mhz> yeas I read it
[12:37] <Viper550> I've got an edit lock on UbuntuMetacityArtwork already!!!
[12:38] <mhz> artnay: if we keep UbuntuMetacityArtwork
[12:38] <klepas> so do we agree on this idea
[12:38] <mhz> we'll keep the mess
[12:38] <Viper550> Yes, I am going to hit the submit button now!
[12:38] <artnay> mhz: then we have UbuntuMetacityArtworkDiscussion as wel
[12:38] <artnay> that could be a mess. but the status page should be clear and informal
[12:38] <klepas> agreed
[12:39] <mhz> artnay: yeah, but when we define structures we go from general to specific
[12:39] <bachler> mhz, sounds lite a good idea
[12:39] <Viper550> Your title code with the equal signs don't work!
[12:39] <Gnobdy> So is it official that AndyFitz is no longer making an icon theme??
[12:40] <artnay> Gnobdy: he is
[12:40] <Gnobdy> oh?
[12:40] <klepas> Gnobdy: that will come in good time
[12:40] <klepas> wiki first
[12:40] <Gnobdy> it said on the wiki that he isn't
[12:40] <artnay> just have some patience
[12:40] <volvoguy> i haven't heard from andy in ages.
[12:40] <klepas> wiki first please
[12:40] <nomed> i'm not an ubuntu developer but i was playing with its artwork packages during these days
[12:40] <volvoguy> sorry. *shuts up*
[12:40] <artnay> Gnobdy: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList -> Icons
[12:40] <Viper550> There, the equals needed spaces then the title!
[12:40] <nomed> i think the Artwork page should be devided in packages sections
[12:41] <Viper550> For icons, I think we should dump Humility, that project already died!
[12:41] <volvoguy> let's pretend artnay has the microphone. :)
[12:41] <nomed> gfxboot-theme-*buntu
[12:41] <klepas> guys
[12:41] <klepas> please
[12:41] <klepas> wiki first
[12:41] <artnay> volvoguy: he does things his own way. let's give him some time
[12:41] <klepas> artnay if you will? :)
[12:41] <nomed> *buntu-artwork-usplash
[12:41] <nomed> *buntu-artwork
[12:41] <artnay> 15 minutes left, that's not much
[12:41] <nomed> as the user will see them during the boot up process
[12:41] <artnay> we need to make some decisions, mainly on wiki
[12:42] <klepas> yep
[12:42] <Viper550> Edit lock already on gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[12:42] <volvoguy> artnay, yeah - i just used to be in touch with him daily pre-breezy. i miss him. *sniff*
[12:42] <klepas> A general question to all
[12:42] <nomed> then there are subusections on each package
[12:42] <klepas> How many of you agree that this new proposal for wiki layout is good?
[12:42] <Yetzero> i do
[12:42] <artnay> how many of you have read it actually? :)
[12:42] <nomed> and the one that has more is for sure
[12:42] <lukacu> i do
[12:42] <nomed> *buntu-artwork
[12:43] <klepas> i do too
[12:43] <nomed> that includes
[12:43] <Gnobdy> I concur
[12:43] <bachler> i dont reallt see the problem, but i guess that it needs a retouch
[12:43] <klepas> alright
[12:43] <mhz> klepas: i think that structure is a good base but we need to make sure it goes from General to Specific
[12:43] <klepas> shall we vote on it then?
[12:43] <volvoguy> it's way better than it was.
[12:43] <nomed> icons metacity wallpaper gtk
[12:43] <mhz> klepas: trying to avoid subpages as much as we can
[12:43] <artnay> klepas: vote on what? let's do /UbuntuArtwork as an example
[12:43] <klepas> mhz: it will become specific very quicly when we get to *buntuArtwork
[12:44] <artnay> so that would be done within next five days. are there people who are willing to do that same for K, ED and X?
[12:44] <mhz> klepas: and in order to users/interested people to know what the final structure will be, we need to ask everytone here to Subscribe to ArtWork
[12:44] <klepas> Yep. I'm happy to
[12:44] <klepas> mhz: yep
[12:45] <bachler> anyone got any suggestions for a layout?
[12:45] <klepas> i think that is alright
[12:45] <artnay> hopefully you guys have time left as I think this is going to take a while
[12:45] <klepas> So shall we vote, taking into account that
[12:45] <klepas> because we need to make decisions
[12:45] <mhz> bachler: artnay and me but I'll show it once I can wiki it (paper now) and finish this meeting
[12:45] <klepas> and not let this drag until the next meeting
[12:46] <klepas> Vote?
[12:46] <lukacu> yes
[12:46] <Viper550> Let's do the idea that I'm already putting into action (UbuntuMetacityArtwork)
[12:46] <bachler> mhz: good, cuz noting will happen unless anyone suggests something
[12:46] <mhz> artnay: what if we propose 3 people to get working on wiki proposal
[12:46] <artnay> bachler: topics on /*buntuArtWork: Projects, ???
[12:46] <klepas> mhz: yep
[12:46] <klepas> good idea
[12:46] <klepas> alright
[12:46] <artnay> mhz: and it would be done within next five days
[12:46] <klepas> have we got 3 volunteers?
[12:46] <mhz> artnay: of course! before tuesday
[12:46] <artnay> not just the propisition, /UbuntuArtwork itself
[12:47] <artnay> damn typos
[12:47] <klepas> yea, given 3 people and a week
[12:47] <klepas> we can do it
[12:47] <klepas> artnay: will you join us?
[12:47] <Yetzero> that's the way we have to work
[12:47] <artnay> Viper550:
[12:47] <klepas> anyone else?
[12:47] <lukacu> i can help after 2nd januray
[12:47] <klepas> to help fix the wiki
[12:47] <volvoguy> i really have to remain a casual observer for a while yet, but i'll be around to voice my opinions. ;)
[12:47] <artnay> no, that would be covered in /*buntuArtwork
[12:47] <nomed> ubuntu logo is in ubuntu-artwork
[12:48] <klepas> artnay: ?
[12:48] <artnay> klepas: I guess I have some time to spare :)
[12:48] <Viper550> Making Ubuntu Artwork for wallpapers, usplash thingys, excetera
[12:48] <klepas> thanks
[12:48] <klepas> alright
[12:48] <klepas> that is settled then
[12:48] <klepas> Wiki will be re-organised
[12:48] <mhz> ALL: so we have the ArtWorkWikiTeam -> klepas + mhz +  artnay  These guys will have a complete wiki proposal for a unified structure
[12:49] <Viper550> YIPPEE! Let's celebrate!
[12:49] <artnay> Viper550: no, Projects would be one topic. it would cover mostly stuff that is listed at /ArtworkTodoList
[12:49] <bachler> haha, .. wath volvoguy said.. i think it applys for me too
[12:49] <klepas> alright
[12:49] <lukacu> move on?
[12:49] <Viper550> Oh, well I can still do the Honk Honk Smells Good dance right?
[12:49] <klepas> finally wiki is out of the way
[12:49] <volvoguy> bachler, did you have spinal fusion surgery too? ;)
[12:49] <artnay> and then below that could be all stuff related to that *buntuArtwork
[12:49] <lguerra> i want colaborate
[12:49] <klepas> mailing lists are next
[12:49] <Viper550> Honk Honk, Honk Honk, Smells Good, Smells Good!
[12:49] <Yetzero> let's do this 3 people proposal thing for everything :P
[12:49] <mhz> ALL:  this Team will have 5 days (or 7, considering the dates) to propose something to the ML
[12:49] <Viper550> Yeah, best of 3!
[12:50] <bachler> volvoguy: no.. but i got hit by a car.. my left shoulder is not in its best condition
[12:50] <klepas> I agree with mhz's latest email
[12:50] <klepas> on the mailing list
[12:50] <klepas> about using the wiki to upload art
[12:50] <volvoguy> bachler, ok... you're off the hook too then.
[12:50] <artnay> Yetzero: it will be an open proposal at wiki. it most probably will be discussed on IRC, so please connect to Freenode more often
[12:50] <klepas> at least work-in-progress stuff
[12:51] <artnay> klepas: yeah, but now behind one's name. that would be *buntuProjectArtworkDiscussion
[12:51] <Viper550> I think that's a good idea, but the other way around sounds good too!
[12:51] <klepas> would that go to, say for example for me /PascalKlein/Artwork ?
[12:51] <klepas> or where shall this content go?
[12:51] <artnay> klepas: under the discussion page
[12:52] <klepas> alright
[12:52] <klepas> that sounds good
[12:52] <klepas> because right now using our individual upload methos
[12:52] <klepas> *methods
[12:52] <Viper550> Never mind, let's do ML discussion, Wiki Upload. The ml readers got slightly mad for me attaching my stuff
[12:52] <klepas> and posting to the ML is not the best idea
[12:52] <klepas> Viper550: we just there is a better, easier way
[12:53] <klepas> making use of the wiki's features would be that way
[12:53] <volvoguy> while we're still on the wiki, should the point be made on one of the entry pages that our work will most likely be "contributed" art and not default artwork for the distro? at least for the next few releases?
[12:53] <Viper550> YES! Honk Honk Honk Honk, Smells Good Smells Good!
[12:53] <artnay> Viper550: of course ML would have discussion after renewing wiki. but at least the project page should be kept up-to-date
[12:53] <klepas> volvoguy: sure, but something i will try to bring up on the Community Council meeting
[12:53] <volvoguy> klepas, gotcha. thanks. :)
[12:53] <klepas> so, do we generally agree to no post art on the mailing list
[12:53] <klepas> well not attached art at least
[12:54] <bachler> yeah
[12:54] <lukacu> ok
[12:54] <volvoguy> klepas, agreed. definitely.
[12:54] <klepas> please use Art.ubuntu.com for finished work
[12:54] <Yetzero> agreed
[12:54] <Viper550> Yes "signs on not so dotted line, that he already forgot about once..."
[12:54] <klepas> and anything else goes to the wiki
[12:54] <klepas> alright
[12:54] <mhz> volvoguy: good point
[12:54] <klepas> great
[12:54] <klepas> thanks everyone
[12:54] <klepas> it would also allow people to comment on the work
[12:54] <Viper550> But, you need external hosting to upload wallpapers to AUC
[12:54] <klepas> so feel free to make use of this too
[12:54] <klepas> Viper550: use the wiki :)
[12:54] <klepas> as a start
[12:54] <volvoguy> mhz, thx. just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea as i did initially. doh!
[12:54] <mhz> volvoguy: please send an email with the text you imagine. We can use Templates too, so evey new page has same basic content
[12:55] <Viper550> But, we said we wouldn't use Wiki for finished work!
[12:55] <artnay> yeah, for the "defaulted ones"
[12:55] <artnay> *buntuProjectArtwork would have these images, too
[12:55] <klepas> Viper550: look at it this way
[12:55] <klepas> you're making something
[12:55] <mhz> ALL: and please can we agree to upload SVG files too, in AUC ?
[12:56] <klepas> and you post the work in progress
[12:56] <klepas> mhz: yep
[12:56] <Viper550> Yes, for Universe artwork
[12:56] <klepas> anyhow, and you continue to upload wip versions
[12:56] <lukacu> mhz: but not ONLY svg please
[12:56] <klepas> and then lastly, the final version
[12:56] <Viper550> For your critisim of course!
[12:56] <klepas> and then you can submit it at AUC
[12:56] <klepas> :)
[12:56] <volvoguy> mhz, i think klepas has it under control with the Community Council meeting stuff. keep in touch with him about the details about where we stand with all the work we do.
[12:56] <mhz> Viper550: wiki is the base EVERY newcomer visits first, even before AUC
[12:56] <klepas> yep
[12:57] <klepas> mhz: wholesomely agreed
[12:57] <mhz> lucasvo: nope, of course. :D
[12:57] <klepas> guys, remember the wiki can be viewed without joining the mailing list and so forth, so everyone can easily see it and have access to it
[12:57] <bachler> wiki me like!
[12:57] <klepas> let us make use of the features :)
[12:57] <mhz> volvoguy: okis on CC
[12:57] <Viper550> You can view the Mailing List, it's just tougher!
[12:58] <klepas> anyway so we mutually agreed to use the wiki to post at least work in progress work
[12:58] <klepas> rather than attaching it to the mailing list
[12:58] <Viper550> Yes
[12:58] <lukacu> yes
[12:58] <Yetzero> yes
[12:58] <bachler> yes
[12:58] <mhz> ALL: I can offer myself to do a MoinWiki-School one day here in IRC
[12:58] <klepas> you can still write about it in the ML, but don't uplaod it
[12:58] <Viper550> Honk Honk.....never mind the Honk Honk Smells Good dance
[12:58] <mhz> (if needed)
[12:58] <klepas> mhz: that's be lovely
[12:58] <volvoguy> klepas, good point. i was just going to mention that definitions of SVG/PNG/JPG/etc should be defined somewhere. i get emails ALL THE TIME asking for PNG versions of my SVG backgrounds.
[12:58] <lukacu> mhz: cool
[12:58] <bachler> mhz: good, when?
[12:59] <Viper550> It's called the Export Bitmap tool in Inkscape
[12:59] <klepas> organise at the end
[12:59] <klepas> anyway
[12:59] <klepas> so that's the mailing list out of the way
[12:59] <artnay> that would be under guides
[12:59] <klepas> let us move on
[12:59] <klepas> IRC Channel next :)
[12:59] <Viper550> Can we now talk about Kubuntu theme proposals?
[12:59] <mhz> lukacu: klepas: bachler: let me finish the 'structure'  with the team, gimme on emore week and I'l be ready for it and send email on the requirements
[01:00] <lukacu> ok
[01:00] <bachler> k
[01:00] <artnay> and every *buntuProjectArtwork would cover links to guides related to that project
[01:00] <klepas> given the attendance we have now, does this mean we will have more people on the #ubuntu-artwork irc channel?
[01:00] <bachler> the allmighty IRC channel..
[01:00] <volvoguy> Viper550, i know that - but Mr. Windows Guy trying to use an SVG wallpaper doesn't.
[01:00] <klepas> i would certainly welcome it
[01:00] <Viper550> Inkscape runs on Windows too!
[01:00] <libervisco> good to see some progress made :)
[01:00] <artnay> but nobody has agreed to build/maintain /Kubu... and /Xu...
[01:00] <Viper550> Kubuntu Art?
[01:01] <mhz> libervisco: good point
[01:01] <volvoguy> Viper550, :-P
[01:01] <klepas> let's not stray
[01:01] <klepas> the IRC topic is small and we can move on quickly
[01:01] <klepas> can i just get a headcount on how many people use the IRC on a regular basis please?
[01:01] <lukacu> volvoguy: it is also easier for auc admin to create thumbnail out of png or jpg ... i think so
[01:01] <volvoguy> klepas, i'll try to hit the IRC channel more. this is the longest i've been online in months.
[01:01] <mhz> klepas: i use it
[01:02] <libervisco> klepas, heh I do, but I wasn't in these channels before :)
[01:02] <klepas> volvoguy: yea, you've got an excuse
[01:02] <artnay> lukacu: we can have a script that would create/convert everything needed
[01:02] <Yetzero> i don't use IRC for anything else that this meeting
[01:02] <klepas> alright
[01:02] <volvoguy> lukacu, probably. that got going right before my surgery so i haven't even logged in as admin yet.
[01:02] <bachler> irc channel.. i really dont remember where i got the info about it.. but a quick googel on "ubuntu artwork irc" gets you to http://www.volvoguy.net/ubuntu/
[01:02] <klepas> so generally the use of the IRC channel probably won't increase
[01:02] <lukacu> artnay: yeah, but we need imagemagick ;)
[01:02] <Viper550> Think the default Kubuntu icons should be something different than Crystal?
[01:02] <klepas> that's alright for now
[01:03] <libervisco> klepas, what are plans for IRC?
[01:03] <artnay> lukacu: we just have to tell about that to canonical. I hope they are more aware of this problem after this discussion
[01:03] <klepas> no decisions need to made on this so we can move on the topic of AUC
[01:03] <volvoguy> bachler, hey, for a while a google of "ubuntu artwork" listed my site as number one. :)
[01:03] <klepas> libervisco: nothing much, use it for what we currently do :)
[01:03] <bachler> heh
[01:03] <libervisco> oh ok
[01:03] <Riddell> Viper550: generally I want to keep kubuntu close to KDE artwork
[01:03] <klepas> AUC.
[01:03] <artnay> volvoguy: and when was the last time you updated it? :) I think that google result tells something
[01:03] <Viper550> It's called being unique
[01:04] <Viper550> NuoveXT would be perfect!
[01:04] <volvoguy> artnay, i know. i'm a slacker. :)
[01:04] <klepas> what are your takes on the CMS?
[01:04] <artnay> Riddell: yeah, the default theme has taken some hours, and there are reasons for that
[01:04] <mhz> klepas: even if IRC use is not more, Wiki is for those who dont IRC, and ML for those who can complain or suggest something
[01:04] <klepas> mhz: yep :)
[01:04] <mhz> :D
[01:04] <artnay> klepas: not artweb
[01:05] <artnay> I see it's causing a lot of pain
[01:05] <Viper550> They'd look good...
[01:05] <klepas> artnay: agreed
[01:05] <bachler> i perssonally would like to see some more activity on the irc
[01:05] <ptomes> Viper550: What about http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=32288
[01:05] <klepas> who here has administration rights to AUC apart from me?
[01:05] <lukacu> me
[01:05] <lukacu> i
[01:05] <lukacu> :)
[01:05] <artnay> beside AUC will have to cover stuff for at least four different flavous
[01:05] <Yetzero> what about weekly IRC meetings?
[01:05] <mhz> libervisco: usually, all FLOSS developments discuss actively on IRC channels
[01:05] <klepas> so lukacu and i.
[01:05] <artnay> artweb can't do that anyway
[01:05] <volvoguy> artweb in retrospect wasn't a great idea - but it was a quick fix.
[01:05] <Viper550> Tango> not even close to KDE artwork!!!
[01:05] <klepas> Yetzero: sounds awesome
[01:05] <libervisco> mhz, yep
[01:06] <lukacu> and volvoguy i think
[01:06] <Viper550> p.s. It's a pain to setup under KDE
[01:06] <klepas> i know Andy does too
[01:06] <Yetzero> I see the main problem about IRC is that we live in different places so we don't know when to get there
[01:06] <libervisco> So someone here has full access to be able to install a CMS?
[01:06] <bachler> i am totaly for smaller meetings on irc every.. say, weekend
[01:06] <klepas> Guys! May I suggest if you wish to discuss something off topic for now use the #ubuntu-artwork IRC channel please!
[01:07] <klepas> libervisco: no. guys from Canonical did that =\
[01:07] <libervisco> ah
[01:07] <Viper550> So, any other artwork related thing should be in ubuntu-artwork now?
[01:07] <artnay> it's 02:09 AM here and I have work tomorr... no, today. could we make some more decisions?
[01:07] <bachler> klepas: weekly meetings in irc?
[01:07] <libervisco> so how can you get them to change it?
[01:07] <klepas> bachler: yep, i'm all for it
[01:07] <volvoguy> if we all vote on something better, we have a Canonical contact to work on our server.
[01:07] <bachler> klepas: me too
[01:07] <klepas> back to AUC
[01:07] <libervisco> volvoguy, I see
[01:08] <klepas> how many of us generall agree that the artweb cms ought to be replaced?
[01:08] <libervisco> let me take a look at it, have a link?
[01:08] <lukacu> well if we find something better then yes
[01:08] <artnay> I guess the current AUC admins have quite clear picture what's slowing AUC down. let's suppose that artweb will be changed
[01:08] <bachler> so, what day of the week would the meeting be held, and what time? .. i guess that saturdays is good for me
[01:08] <mhz> Yetzero: yes, IRC is to intereact while you are working on something. Also, ML is to general discussion but is so slow. Wiki is to place stuff so others can discuss or complement
[01:08] <klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com
[01:08] <libervisco> oh
[01:08] <libervisco> right :D
[01:08] <mhz> libervisco: why a CMS?
[01:08] <Viper550> If I wanted to talk about StreamlinedBoot, where should I go?
[01:09] <Yetzero> mhz: thanks
[01:09] <klepas> libervisco: you won't see the lack of functions as a nomral user
[01:09] <volvoguy> libervisco, he worked a lot on artweb so he might not be thrilled, but if there's a strong contender we might be able to get it replaced.
[01:09] <artnay> klepas: it's still pain to navigate
[01:09] <klepas> yep
[01:09] <libervisco> I see
[01:09] <libervisco> well it looks good from user side
[01:09] <klepas> so generally do we agree to seek alternate systems?
[01:09] <libervisco> but klepas did told me it's a disaster to manage from your side
[01:09] <klepas> libervisco: but it is a huge pain to add content
[01:09] <klepas> yes
[01:10] <volvoguy> it's a disaster.
[01:10] <libervisco> a good site to test CMSs is www.opensourcecms.com
[01:10] <lukacu> yes
[01:10] <artnay> klepas: we do. and what next?
[01:10] <klepas> Since a fair few of us, particularly the admins, think the artweb CMS isn't as great as we need
[01:10] <artnay> ;)
[01:10] <Viper550> A little bit of Ubuntu on my comp...sorry about the Mambo #5 pun, it runs Mambo!
[01:11] <klepas> let's see if there is anyone interested in checking out alternatives
[01:11] <mhz> CMS that use PHP do need more admin hours than Moin as CMS
[01:11] <libervisco> I think you can definitely find a better CMS
[01:11] <mhz> and we can make Moin work as CMS
[01:11] <klepas> and reporting back to use on what they find
[01:11] <mhz> thats why we formed a team :D
[01:11] <klepas> mhz: i wouldn't use it for this purpose
[01:11] <klepas> i personally suggest something like the GNOME/KDE-look.org CMS
[01:11] <mhz> (me neither, klepas but it can be)
[01:11] <artnay> mhz: we need something well-tested to this purpose. how's Moin as CMS?
[01:11] <klepas> i know it is quite configurable
[01:12] <libervisco> well drupal and XOOPS are great, from my experience
[01:12] <klepas> not for managing graphic content
[01:12] <lukacu> yeah, drupal is cool
[01:12] <libervisco> although XOOPS has a better image gallery
[01:12] <mhz> artnay: klepas: we can analyze it while we work on # the channel :)
[01:12] <klepas> something like GNOME/KDE-look.org's CMS is better
[01:12] <klepas> alright
[01:12] <volvoguy> a big argument for artweb was that it tied in with gnomeart - allowing users to use one app to preview, download and install any artwork from our site or art.gnome.org. that hasn't happened yet though .
[01:12] <libervisco> klepas, I think they use something like phpnuke...
[01:12] <klepas> volvoguy: yea, and frankly that app sucks
[01:13] <lukacu> :)
[01:13] <volvoguy> klepas, eh - it gets the job done. usually.
[01:13] <klepas> the work that would need to be done to fix it + the work that would need to be done to fix art-web... ugh. too much
[01:13] <bachler> what are we takling about again?
[01:13] <klepas> AUC
[01:13] <klepas> and it's CMS
[01:13] <volvoguy> lol
[01:13] <klepas> art-web
[01:13] <Viper550> Should it use AGC's cms system?
[01:14] <lukacu> we do need guidelines and faq
[01:14] <artnay> ok, let's take a closer look at what's happening currently with artweb. if it won't provide much more usability, then let's change it. we need a team to seek for an alternativies. let's place this info to wiki and a discussion page of that
[01:14] <mhz> ALL:  what if we have a wiki page to anlize what we expect from and art-web site?
[01:14] <volvoguy> you know, i think i need to quit distracting you and go take some pain meds. i'll try to catch up with the logs and find ya'll later on our own IRC channel. good seeing everybody again.
[01:14] <mhz> and then, fill it with opinions and charts
[01:15] <klepas> cheers volvoguy
[01:15] <lukacu> bye volvoguy
[01:15] <mhz> volvoguy: thx for being here
[01:15] <klepas> mhz: sounds alright
[01:15] <artnay> volvoguy: take care
[01:15] <volvoguy> thanks, and my pleasure. :) later guys!
[01:15] <libervisco> cya volvoguy
[01:15] <klepas> i personally propose we get a few people who are interested in this
[01:15] <klepas> and ask them to investigate possible alternative CMSs
[01:15] <mhz> klepas: good too!
[01:15] <klepas> maybe they have access to a server, and can set it up
[01:16] <klepas> and then allow the current admins to have a look at the admin interface
[01:16] <artnay> klepas: yeah, that doesn't require inkscape or the gimp
[01:16] <Yetzero> we need somewhere to upload artwork
[01:16] <klepas> lol
[01:16] <klepas> still art related :)
[01:16] <klepas> think of it this way
[01:16] <mhz> klepas: but befoire they set the CMS I think it's needed to discuss the featrures
[01:17] <klepas> if we get something as powerful as GNOME-look.org' CMS set up art will be so much easier to maintain
[01:17] <klepas> mhz: yep
[01:17] <Viper550> KDE-Look also uses that, whatever it is
[01:17] <artnay> mhz: AUC admins will most likely write a list of needed operations. that list will be included in wiki
[01:17] <klepas> yep
[01:17] <klepas> as does KDE-Apps, XFCE-Look and so forth
[01:17] <mhz> yup
[01:17] <klepas> agreed
[01:17] <klepas> lukacu and i can do that
[01:17] <mhz> Will we have another meeting next week ?
[01:17] <lukacu> yeah
[01:17] <klepas> i can ask Andy to do the same
[01:18] <klepas> mhz: sounds alright
[01:18] <klepas> we need some progress
[01:18] <artnay> indeed
[01:18] <klepas> so another meeting would serve us well
[01:18] <mhz> ALL: so we'll submit advances next meeting?
[01:18] <klepas> yes
[01:18] <Yetzero> please, weekly meetings at a fixed time
[01:18] <klepas> lukacu: i'll contact Andy
[01:18] <mhz> can we discus UTC time on ML?
[01:18] <artnay> we need to start now, otherwise we won't make it (just like with breezy :(
[01:18] <lukacu> ok
[01:18] <Yetzero> ok
[01:18] <mhz> or voting via WIki as we did now?
[01:18] <klepas> ditto
[01:18] <Viper550> ditto!
[01:18] <klepas> Yes!
[01:19] <bachler> ok
[01:19] <Viper550> 3 anti-strikes, you
[01:19] <mhz> heheh
[01:19] <mhz> okis
[01:19] <Viper550> I mean 3 anti-strikes, you're in!
[01:19] <klepas> lukacu: we'll pass around what we come up with concerning the features or lack thereof via mail
[01:19] <mhz> we can even rotate UTC time so everyone get a chance to feel better
[01:19] <klepas> Andy you and I
[01:20] <Viper550> At least my time made it start at 6pm
[01:20] <lukacu> no problem
[01:20] <klepas> alright
[01:20] <klepas> so that is AUC out of the way
[01:20] <mhz> ALL:  thx for being here and see you in #ubuntu-artwork
[01:20] <klepas> considering the next lot is all small stuff
[01:20] <mhz> bye all
[01:20] <bachler> bye
[01:20] <artnay> pong mhz
[01:20] <klepas> if you guys are going
[01:20] <klepas> check the Logs later
[01:21] <klepas> there is still someting i want to discuss
[01:21] <klepas> for those that are left
[01:21] <bachler> i am here
[01:21] <artnay> I think that the current brown look is a problem. I also think that Canonical acknowledges this
[01:21] <artnay> they might not have plans ready yet
[01:21] <klepas> what do you guys reckon on making a Ubuntu and a Kubuntu universe art package
[01:21] <artnay> so some patience, I'll bet they will answer
[01:22] <Riddell> klepas: what would you put in them?
[01:22] <bachler> klepas: i think that is a good idea
[01:23] <klepas> because i've had people from both the KDE (Kubuntu) and GNOME (Ubuntu) community privately ask us to make something like this
[01:23] <Viper550> Is the meeting over?
[01:23] <klepas> well for the Kubuntu one for a example
[01:23] <artnay> at least the current theme has been heavily criticized. I like the idea of brown (it seems to be quite important topic to some ubuntu users), but the current style is a bit outdated
[01:23] <Riddell> we already have a kubuntu-grub-splashimages so stuff like that is quite possible
[01:23] <klepas> KDM themes, window decorations, themes/styles and so forth
[01:23] <klepas> wallpapersd
[01:23] <klepas> we could even package tango
[01:23] <Viper550> But, I'm concerned about the Usplash artwork for the deravitives...
[01:24] <Riddell> tango is packaged I'm sure, dholbach does it
[01:24] <libervisco> Tango is a good idea
[01:24] <artnay> at least majority of my friends have said that after ubuntu installation. and I guess I'm with them
[01:24] <artnay> ;P
[01:24] <libervisco> I think people should start implementing it
[01:24] <klepas> well forget tango for now
[01:24] <Viper550> I still think for what it is right now, Humility is pretty neat lookingh
[01:24] <klepas> Kubuntu's universe art package would include kubuntu (KDE) related art
[01:24] <klepas> how does that soun Riddell ?
[01:24] <klepas> *sound
[01:25] <artnay> those debian packages should be able to "humanize" your KDE and make GNOME look blue or something
[01:25] <Riddell> klepas: sounds fun, if there's enough high quality random kubuntu artwork that would be nice to have it in a package
[01:25] <Yetzero> you have a point there
[01:25] <Viper550> Yeah, we could call them ubuntu-gearize and kubuntu-humanize!
[01:25] <BxL> everything else exept ubuntu is blue, get something else than blue
[01:25] <klepas> well i plan to make some new stuff for it too
[01:25] <bachler> i think that the answer to all this is to have more art and themes as packages?
[01:26] <klepas> no point packaging only art that people have already see :)
[01:26] <klepas> *seen
[01:26] <Yetzero> yeah
[01:26] <artnay> BxL: it wouldn't be blue by default
[01:26] <klepas> I've already been given the go ahead for an Ubuntu (thus GNOME) art package for universe by Ogra
[01:26] <artnay> that's the point, let's provide an easy way to change the whole look of GUI
[01:26] <Yetzero> we should work on a different overall art proposal
[01:26] <klepas> Riddell: can you give me the green light as to a Kubuntu universe art package?
[01:27] <Viper550> Let's think about the users...ideas
[01:27] <artnay> it's not like my mom would surf GNOME-look or KDE-look, compile new decos etc.
[01:27] <Yetzero> that affects the whole system in a way that it's coherent
[01:27] <artnay> it has to be simple. bvc has nice GNOME mods ready, maybe he would like to get them packaged
[01:27] <bachler> artnay: sounds good
[01:27] <Viper550> Okay, don't forget about that wallpaper I put on the ML, Glow!
[01:28] <klepas> Riddell: ?
[01:28] <Riddell> klepas: if you think there's enough decent kubuntu themed artwork I'm all for it
[01:28] <bachler> me too
[01:28] <klepas> cool
[01:28] <Riddell> klepas: give me a poke in #kubuntu-devel if you need any help or want me to review
[01:28] <klepas> i'd be happy to work on both of these
[01:29] <klepas> Ubuntu and Kubuntu packages
[01:29] <klepas> sure
[01:29] <klepas> thanks :)
[01:29] <klepas> while we're on it
[01:29] <bachler> klepas: *thumbsup*
[01:29] <klepas> is there anyone who would be willing to help me in this regard?
[01:29] <artnay> klepas: to say: GNOME and KDE :p
[01:29] <klepas> find suitable artwork and create some
[01:29] <artnay> it's the idea, leave the current Ubuntu/Edubuntu style in a second
[01:30] <Yetzero> i'm all for creating content... at last :D
[01:30] <klepas> artnay: interested?
[01:30] <klepas> Riddell: just one more question on this - what license would the stuff have to be under?
[01:30] <artnay> klepas: if I only had more time... but I'll try to do my best :o
[01:30] <klepas> alrighty ;)
[01:31] <bachler> well..
[01:31] <lukacu> klepas: i will help as much as i can
[01:31] <klepas> nice
[01:31] <bachler> bye.
[01:31] <Yetzero> bye
[01:31] <klepas> cheers bachler
[01:31] <lukacu> bye
[01:31] <klepas> Riddell: license?
[01:31] <artnay> klepas: that's another issue, licenses. which ones are acceptable? CC-SA, LGPL, GPL etc.
[01:31] <artnay> but
[01:32] <Viper550> The glow wallpaper if you are wondering; http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20051226/f7c89d99/ubuntuglow-0001.jpg
[01:32] <Riddell> klepas: the kubuntu logo is creative commons, anything Free is acceptable though
[01:32] <libervisco> CC-SA is probably best for art
[01:32] <artnay> there's lots of Ubuntu-related artwork all around the web. if license will give you a right to distribute it, please submit it to AUC
[01:32] <libervisco> GPLs are mainly for software
[01:33] <Viper550> My glow one is GPL
[01:33] <artnay> libervisco: that's true. I think the GPL team will provide an equivalent to artwork, too.
[01:33] <Viper550> Automatically, because it's a dervitave of a GPL work!
[01:33] <artnay> when V3 is released
[01:33] <libervisco> artnay, that would be good
[01:33] <klepas> Ogra mentioned some CC license
[01:33] <klepas> but i can't remember which
[01:34] <klepas> and it all has to be under that license
[01:34] <artnay> or then they leave it to CC, I don't really know. So don't take my word on that.
[01:34] <Viper550> Creative Commons Attribution?
[01:34] <klepas> so if we find something that is GPL we need to ask the creator
[01:34] <artnay> klepas: CC can be restrictive, too.
[01:34] <klepas> yes, i know
[01:34] <klepas> remember it isn't my decision
[01:34] <Viper550> No, as long as it is also GPL'd and there is source code!
[01:34] <libervisco> CC-SA is best IMO
[01:34] <libervisco> attribution, share alike
[01:34] <klepas> libervisco: that sounds fine
[01:34] <klepas> might even have been tha
[01:35] <klepas> *that
[01:35] <klepas> either way
[01:35] <libervisco> it's equivalent to GPL for software
[01:35] <klepas> i'll contact ogra about it
[01:35] <Yetzero> that's the best one i think
[01:35] <klepas> and ask him which one it was
[01:36] <artnay>  /Artwork will be updated shortly. it will have short-term goals for different kind of projects (no artwork needed).
[01:36] <klepas> alright
[01:36] <Viper550> Now, let's start on that todo list with Fonts, okay?
[01:36] <klepas> well to sort of conclude this
[01:36] <klepas> I'd like to extend a big thankyou to you all
[01:36] <klepas> for attending
[01:36] <klepas> i've seen some new faces. :)
[01:37] <klepas> and i think we've gotten ourselves a wee bit more organised
[01:37] <lukacu> who will write meeting minutes?
[01:37] <klepas> :)
[01:37] <lukacu> :)
[01:37] <lukacu> cool
[01:37] <artnay> Viper550: if it's not taken default by canonical, that kind of stuff should be left to decided by style submitter
[01:37] <klepas> now that we have gotten ourselves organised
[01:37] <klepas> we can actually go away and do something
[01:37] <Viper550> Little question, why not change the default font to FreeSans?
[01:37] <klepas> before the next meeting
[01:38] <klepas> One final request
[01:38] <klepas> out of those here now
[01:38] <klepas> could you please do:
[01:38] <artnay> Viper550: because no Canonicals has provided their opinion.
[01:38] <klepas> for exampple
[01:38] <klepas> :)
[01:38] <Yetzero> * is Luis Santander
[01:38] <klepas> for the meeting minutes
[01:38] <Yetzero> :D
[01:39] <libervisco> I like FreeSans font
[01:39] <klepas> i'll check the others through the logs
[01:39] <libervisco> :)
[01:39] <lukacu> lol
[01:40] <klepas> :)
[01:40] <libervisco> :D
[01:40] <Yetzero> did you guys got some bad time? I started here at 8:00 pm :D
[01:40] <klepas> 11:40 AM here :)
[01:41] <Yetzero> :O
[01:41] <libervisco> 01: 40
[01:41] <artnay> don't mention it... 02:43 AM
[01:41] <libervisco> AM
[01:41] <artnay> therefore I'm a bit exhausted
[01:41] <lukacu> yeah ... its late allright
[01:41] <artnay> I have to get up at 6 AM :|
[01:41] <lukacu> lol
[01:42] <artnay> anyways, enough of OT
[01:42] <lukacu> lets finish then
[01:42] <libervisco> damn, you better get some sleep artnay :)
[01:42] <Yetzero> what's left to discuss?
[01:43] <klepas> nothing really
[01:43] <artnay> if only we could know what canonical is planning. we need to get a idea of that so we can sort of base our artwork on that
[01:43] <artnay> well at least have something similiar
[01:43] <klepas> Yetzero: not now anyway
[01:43] <artnay> if the official artwork gets released when Dapper gets gold, it's already too late
[01:43] <klepas> Yetzero: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
[01:44] <klepas> but most of it next time
[01:44] <Yetzero> klepas: Ok
[01:44] <klepas> i ought to have minutes finished tonight my time or tomorrow (my time)
[01:44] <klepas> ohh
[01:44] <klepas> artnay: will you help make a cooperative article about the proceedings for Ubuntux.org?
[01:44] <klepas> :)
[01:45] <libervisco> artnay is the owner of Ubuntux.org?
[01:45] <artnay> remember, this is community based work. canonical is relying on community. only Mark has the last word to be used (veto)
[01:45] <klepas> no
[01:45] <klepas> :P
[01:46] <libervisco> :D
[01:46] <klepas> either way, i promised Friedrich (owner of ubuntux.org) a sort of mini article on what's happening art wise
[01:46] <klepas> he'll be happy to hear about an Ubuntu and a Kubuntu universe art package
[01:46] <Yetzero> artnay is right, but we need to know where exactly we can help
[01:47] <libervisco> oh
[01:47] <klepas> don't worry
[01:47] <klepas> i'm going to the next Community Council meeting
[01:47] <klepas> and i'll be taking that up
[01:47] <klepas> i want to know as much as the rest of you what is happening in regards to art
[01:47] <klepas> whether our efforts will appear in Dapper or not
[01:47] <klepas> anyway
[01:47] <klepas> i need to be off
[01:47] <klepas> thanks again everyone
[01:48] <libervisco> alright, cya later klepas
[01:48] <lukacu> bye klepas
[01:48] <Yetzero> bye
[01:48] <artnay> klepas: be sure to come back, we have some wikis to do :p
[01:48] <klepas> libervisco: we can publish the phpbb theme soon
[01:48] <klepas> yep
[01:48] <klepas> will do :)
[01:48] <libervisco> klepas, sure.. I can make those changes if needed...
[01:49] <libervisco> should test it on default install first
[01:49] <artnay> so how many of you guys are present?
[01:49] <lukacu> present where?
[01:49] <Yetzero> i'm here
[01:49] <artnay> there's lots of nick in here but only a few have participated in discussion
[01:49] <lukacu> oh...
[01:49] <klepas> yep
[01:49] <klepas> i'll dissect the logs later :)
[01:49] <artnay> did this meeting miss something big time? how do you feel after all this?
[01:49] <klepas> for minutes purposes
[01:50] <artnay> which subjects would you like to discuss?
[01:50] <lukacu> artnay: next meeting i guess?
[01:51] <BxL> wallpaper, or maybe the lack of different wallpaper
[01:51] <artnay> lukacu: by then we need to have some progress
[01:51] <Yetzero> so when will it be? next meeting
[01:51] <klepas> 7 days!
[01:51] <lukacu> :)
[01:51] <klepas> because we need time for the wiki at least
[01:51] <Yetzero> same time?
[01:52] <lukacu> ugh ... thats going to be tough
[01:52] <klepas> we can vote on it
[01:52] <klepas> Yetzero: since most people who attended have left
[01:53] <klepas> let's not decide now
[01:53] <klepas> we can use the voting wiki page
[01:53] <artnay> damn UTC 23 ;)
[01:53] <lukacu> :)
[01:53] <lukacu> lets use wiki
[01:53] <klepas> i'll send mails out and get stuff organised later today
[01:53] <klepas> yep
[01:53] <klepas> anyhow
[01:53] <Yetzero> yeah, wiki voting
[01:53] <lukacu> ok...i think i will have some sleep then
[01:53] <klepas> yep
[01:53] <klepas> call it a night
[01:53] <lukacu> bye all
[01:53] <klepas> cheers guys
[01:53] <artnay> but hey
[01:54] <lukacu> what?
[01:54] <artnay> if you didn't already, fill your wiki info
[01:54] <lukacu> what info?
[01:54] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
[01:54] <lukacu> oh ... that info :)
[01:55] <artnay> so we can have a idea in which projects are people interested in
[01:55] <artnay> an... forgive me
[01:55] <lukacu> ?
[01:55] <klepas> guys
[01:55] <klepas> just to let you know
[01:56] <klepas> meeting is over so we should probably move to #ubuntu-artwork :)
[01:56] <lukacu> night all then
[01:56] <libervisco> 'night lukacu
[01:56] <Yetzero> bye
[01:57] <artnay> after watching my typos and grammar, I think it's a suitable time to get some sleep
[01:57] <artnay> bye
[01:57] <libervisco> bye artnay


[04:25] <Tooncenator> holstein - okie-doke. Will keep plugging away at it. thanks again.
[04:26] <Tooncenator> holstein_ rather
[17:20] <studio-user980> Hello everyone!
[17:21] <Camilla> Hello
[17:22] <holstein> o/
[23:31] <javiermoreno> hello
[23:31] <javiermoreno> i need some help
[23:33] <javiermoreno> i have some trouble with mi SO.. i recentli installed and i need help
[23:35] <sunstar> SO?
[23:45] <javiermoreno> how do i execute a .jar file?
[23:54] <sunstar> in terminal: java -jar filename.jar    (or to open with mouse check this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/192914/how-run-a-jar-file-with-a-double-click )


[15:01] <slangasek> liveCD builds broken due to DPKG_FSYNC?
[15:12] <cjwatson> heh, I hadn't actually looked at the failures yet
[15:30] <cjwatson> lamont: ^- could you please unhose livecd.sh in the maverick chroots?
[15:31] <lamont> slangasek: you're building lucid livecds then....  I thought you always forced the distro, no?
[15:34] <cjwatson> uh
[15:34] <cjwatson> certainly not intentionally building lucid
[15:34] <cjwatson> and I didn't change anything in how buildlive is invokved
[15:34] <cjwatson> *invoked
[15:34] <cjwatson> if we're not forcing it now, we never were
[15:34] <cjwatson> ah, heh, there's a DIST=lucid lying around
[15:34] <cjwatson> sigh - fixing
[15:35] <lamont> the DPKG_FSYNC hackery was just inside lucid chroots.
[15:35] <lamont> I've changed things to default to maverick, too.
[15:35] <lamont> and planning to review and land NCommander's change to actually parse options sanely
[15:35] <cjwatson> fixed buildlive defaults, rerunning
[15:40] <ogra> lamont, oh, do you plan to merge the ext2/3 stuff too (then i wont bother)
[15:40] <lamont> ogra: that's the part I have to review. he gagged on the command line option parsing
[15:40] <lamont> which I cannot blame him for
[15:41] <ogra> yes, i know
[15:41] <lamont> ogra: if you want to review and merge it, that'd be a win from my perspective
[15:41] <ogra> i was firstly asking him to take it back but he said you were happy about it :)
[15:41] <cjwatson> ah, now we have proper failures
[15:41] <lamont> originally, there were no options.  then it grew
[15:41] <ogra> the other code looks fine to me, i reviewed it already but didnt find time to actually do the merge
[15:42] <lamont> ogra: go for it.  and then toss a ticket at me to migrate BuildLiveCD out of the chroot so that you can actually pass in the options you need...
[15:42] <ogra> perfect, will do it before ending my day
[15:42] <lamont> sad to say, it's more a dev thing that a me-thing, for the current hat-of-the-day
[15:43] <ogra> we're still lacking debian-cd changes so there is no hurry
[15:43] <ogra> (i dont expect us to make A1)
[15:43]  * cjwatson wonders whether A1 will make A1
[15:43] <ogra> heh
[15:43] <ogra> we could hand-rool some images :)
[15:43] <ogra> *roll
[15:44] <cjwatson> ah good, there's an approved MIR here for argparse
[16:02] <cjwatson> fixed some archive problems that were also breaking things
[16:57] <ScottK> cjwatson: If I wanted to have a brief chat with the release manager, who would I talk with at this point?
[17:27] <cjwatson> ScottK: that's a good question
[17:28] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I'd like to have such a chat.  Would you perhaps suffice?
[17:28] <cjwatson> possibly - although I'm just about to end-of-week
[17:28] <ScottK> It can wait until next week.  I'll try and catch you then.


[00:35] <usuario> my usb wont mount and my /proc/scsi/scsi is blank
[00:35] <usuario> any advice
[00:35] <Pici> usuario: this isn't a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu
[00:35] <usuario> sorry i got a reference to here
[00:35] <usuario> what is this channel for
[00:36] <Pici> usuario: This channel is for channel operators to discuss issues
[00:39] <usuario> can you recommend a good channel
[09:11] <semitones> wondering if there's any reason not to use port 8001 to connect to irc
[09:12] <Tm_T> semitones: if firewall/router doesn't allow traffic in that port?
[09:12] <semitones> hmm
[09:13] <semitones> I just heard someone tell someone else to get there router updated to protect against dcc, but until then to connect through 8001
[09:13] <Tm_T> yes
[09:14] <semitones> so I wondered if there was a reason not to use 8001 regularly, as I do, but I guess there isn't
[09:14] <semitones> sorry about the spelling
[09:14] <Tm_T> np
[10:30] <wre> "#ubuntu  Cannot send to channel" help!
[10:31] <wre> seems to have been resolved by itself. thanks
[20:18] <erUSUL> damm kids ...
[20:19] <erUSUL> bazhang: just silence him/her
[20:20] <bazhang> guadalinex?
[20:22] <erUSUL> bazhang: right
[20:22] <bazhang> erUSUL, seems to  have gone quiet for the moment I will keep an eye open though
[20:22] <erUSUL> bazhang: i'm talking with her in priv
[20:23] <bazhang> erUSUL, thanks
[20:23] <bazhang> nicely done
[20:24] <erUSUL>  just quit. kids; they just one to flirt online ... ¬.¬
[20:24] <bazhang> hehe
[20:25] <erUSUL> it worries me. kids that young should no be entering irc like this. just airng and requesting his/hers msn acounts and the like
[20:25] <bazhang> true
[20:26] <erUSUL> guadalinex folks should set up a "sandbox" chanel for them or something like that. Pici openen a bug in their launchpad... expresed some of my concerns maybe i should comment further
[20:26] <guntbert> hey, is it only me? I see an increasing number of questions (mainly in #ubuntu) like: "please look at my post in <some obscure forum> or <some obscure website> and tell me how to solve"
[20:27] <erUSUL> or plainly do not install irc by default. msn is enough....
[20:27] <guntbert> to me that is simply annoying
[20:27] <bazhang> dry posts iirc
[20:27] <erUSUL> guntbert: it is alredy annoying when they request you to look into ubuntuforums
[20:28] <bazhang> though we should be discussing this in -irc-helpers probably :)
[20:28] <guntbert> erUSUL: exactly
[20:29] <guntbert> bazhang: ah, is it active yet? I left after seeing only random chatter for a while - will join now
[20:29] <erUSUL> bazhang: yes just let bourocracy get on the way ....
[20:29] <bazhang> well, it'll be active once we join :)
[20:29] <bazhang> erUSUL, :)
[20:31] <erUSUL> this is getting ridicoulus. soon to sort an issue you will have to join 5 channs only to be redirected to a plus five more ... where you will have to join part becouse o well we have no iddling policy here you know
[20:33] <guntbert> I don't want to get into that discussion - for me -helpers seemed to be the first possibility for collegial feedback - but from the mailing list it seems it was not so well accepted by the community
[20:33] <bazhang> erUSUL, here is fine of course
[20:34] <bazhang> any communication is good, imo, wherever it takes place
[20:34] <erUSUL> becouse imho it is duplicating what this (already setted up channel) could be used for
[20:35] <guntbert> erUSUL: about the forums: I attempted to create a factoid (like tellushere, or so ) but never came around, maybe we could make up a proposal
[20:35] <bazhang> like !details ?
[20:35] <guntbert> bazhang: not quite - I want the emphasis on *here* not somewhere else
[20:36] <erUSUL> guntbert: /msg ubottu factoid is <reply>Your text here. the pray to get it accepted :)
[20:36]  * erUSUL misses when ediiting factoids was free for all :P
[20:37] <guntbert> erUSUL: yes I know, but as my first language is german ... I'd like to discuss it a bit
[20:38] <erUSUL> mine is spanish :). that didn't stop me from adding mine ^-^
[20:38] <erUSUL> then you get the warm feeling when it gets used ;P
[20:39] <guntbert> erUSUL: bazhang: in the past I used a line like: please post your question *here* too (all in one line) - you will get a much greater audience
[20:40] <erUSUL> another guadalinex kid enters the room ...
[20:43] <bazhang> is usuario_ the same fellow, or just a common nickname? I see him quite often
[20:44] <erUSUL> bazhang: usuario = user. i guess it is the default set in the irc client
[20:44] <guntbert> bazhang: might be like purple for pidgin
[20:44] <bazhang> erUSUL, okay thanks.
[20:44] <bazhang> right, makes sense
[20:45] <guntbert> bazhang: any comments about my (not yet) proposal for a factoid tellithere (name is awkward) above?
[20:47] <erUSUL> too long for a factoid name? just !here   ?
[20:47] <guntbert> erUSUL: good point
[20:48] <bazhang> the factoid name does seem a bit long, the rest is correct grammar and syntax afaict
[20:48] <bazhang> !here
[20:49] <guntbert>  thx - will propose it
[22:29] <m4v> maybe ban-forward them to #ubuntu-es-offtopic?