[17:50] <timrc> So this is interesting.. https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/functools32 returns 404 and some data :)
[18:05] <cjwatson> that's a little exotic
[18:05] <cjwatson> oh, I see, that's actually the stringified exception
[18:07] <cjwatson> so it's perhaps best considered as a not-found page, just ugly because it's api.
[18:08] <cjwatson> it would be a little clearer if it included the exception name as well as the value
[18:08] <cjwatson> then it would be "NotFound: Object: ..."
[18:16] <timrc> cjwatson: Ah that makes sense.
[18:24] <cjwatson> timrc: I can't immediately find exactly where that's handled, so feel free to file a bug if you want
[18:26] <timrc> cjwatson: Sure.
[18:27] <cjwatson> (not, I think, hugely important - returning an explanatory message body with 404 is perfectly OK, it's just that in this case it could stand to be just a little more explanatory)
[18:30] <timrc> cjwatson: I don't think it's hugely important either.
[18:31] <cjwatson> though I'm quite sure figuring out how to fix it would be educational
[18:31] <timrc> Haven't logged into explicitly to file a LP bug in a long while :)
[18:31] <timrc> in*
[18:34] <timrc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/607754
[18:34] <mup> Bug #607754: api 404 has weird content <api> <lp-foundations> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/607754>
[18:34] <timrc> That looks to be the problem, so no need to re-file.
[18:40] <cjwatson> indeed, thanks
[19:53] <blr> morning


[01:05] <Hoodster> Hi All
[01:41] <sivang> night all
[02:05] <ChrisH> Moin... just posted a revolutionary thought on -doc. ;) I'd like to join our effort into a single book.Let me know what you think.
[04:57] <WW> Hi folks.
[04:58] <ChrisH> WW: hey...
[04:58] <WW> Have the wiki login accounts been reset lately?
[04:59] <ChrisH> Mine works still.
[04:59] <WW> Hmmm... maybe I'm having a senior moment...
[04:59] <WW> Yes, I am... nevermind!
[05:01] <ChrisH> :)
[05:07] <WW> Strange... I'm editing a wiki page, and my cursor keys don't work in the editor.
[05:32] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) good morning
[05:36] <sivang> ChrisH : Hi
[05:36] <sivang> ChrisH : What's up?
[05:42] <ChrisH> sivang: read my posting?
[05:42] <sivang> ChrisH : Started now :)
[05:43] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: I think it is a very good idea to join the projects
[05:43] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I just don't want to space it apart and it not get done than
[05:43] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) We should do a good job though
[05:45] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Great to hear that.
[05:45] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Currently I'm completely lost. I hear of new organisational wiki pages, new subprojects etc... but I think - just like you - that nothing gets done.
[05:46] <ChrisH> hornbeck: If we joined it and everyone would get an own section to work it, that would be simpler.
[05:46] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: We are starting to try and get to organized
[05:46] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Let's say: I take the "server/service" part and look for Wiki pages that deal with it. Once they are in the document the Wiki pages can be removed.
[05:47] <ChrisH> hornbeck: That's why I'm curious about your TOC structure.
[05:47] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: good idea
[05:47] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline
[05:47] <ChrisH> hornbeck: If we have it too freely like "everybody do what they want" then nobody does anything.
[05:47] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) it can be added to
[05:47] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) agreed
[05:47] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) but we are starting to get to many organization pages
[05:48] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I cannot keep up with where I am supposed to email or loginto to tell everyone what I am doing
[05:48] <ChrisH> I'd like to have a single (!) Wiki page for this documentation project where you (if you like) could propose the TOC structure in a table.
[05:48] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) if I have a patch do I send to the  mailing list, bugzilla, or just add it
[05:48] <ChrisH> Then everybody can put their names in where they like to contribute.
[05:48] <ChrisH> Every section gets a file in your repository.
[05:49] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) well my repository will be moved in the next week
[05:49] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) going to the Ubuntu servers
[05:49] <ChrisH> Still subversion based?
[05:49] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) yes
[05:49] <ChrisH> Great.
[05:49] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I think so
[05:49] <ChrisH> Is anything done automatically to produce a new set of HTML documents after a check-in?
[05:50] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) not yet
[05:50] <sivang> ChrisH : Very good. I agree!
[05:50] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I will need your help with that
[05:50] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Hmmm. Okay. I'll try. :)
[05:50] <sivang> ChrisH : THis is much more straightforward approch then we already had,
[05:50] <ChrisH> sivang: Okay. :)
[05:50] <sivang> I am doing the follow up now :)
[05:50] <ChrisH> sivang: I really get the feeling we have so much management that nobody is doing anything. :)
[05:50] <ChrisH> sivang: k
[05:51] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: that is what I was saying
[05:52] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: did you look at the current TOC?
[05:52] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) robertj: You still around?
[05:53] <ChrisH> hornbeck: haven't compared it to other dox like Progeny. But it looks appealing already.
[05:53] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I don't want it compared, we are trying to start fresh not copy :-)
[05:53] <ChrisH> Wasn't there someone posting on the list about an "idiot's guide"? What about that? :)
[05:54] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Nah, just to make sure we don't miss anything.
[05:54] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) that is by the guys at the forem
[05:54] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) they don't really want help
[05:54] <ChrisH> ah, ok
[05:55] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: How about we post the TOC to the list, than people can give suggestions
[05:55] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) but this really has to start soon
[05:56] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Yes!
[05:56] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ok
[05:57] <sivang> The background seciont is mine!
[05:57] <sivang> :)
[05:57] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Let's rename the FAQ (but keep the Subversion path for now) to something like "Ubuntu User's Guide" (?) and everybody picks a section.
[05:57] <ChrisH> sivang: For colorful desktop backgrounds? :)
[05:58] <WW> Wow, are you really considering not having a FAQ?  At all?
[05:59] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: lets keep everything how it is right now
[05:59] <ChrisH> WW: I could imagine that the FAQ will become a subset of the user's guide.
[05:59] <ChrisH> hornbeck: what exactly?
[06:00] <ChrisH> hornbeck: you mean until we know what we want (on the mailing list)?
[06:00] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: yes
[06:00] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I thought we where moving stuff into the book not the faq?
[06:00] <WW> ChrisH: And that will be easily searchable from the web?  So a new user can search for something like "pciehp"?
[06:00] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) the book is clean as far as content, so stuff could be added real easy
[06:02] <sivang> WW : We'll make it searchable from Yelp - Shaun McCane is working on impriving the search option in yelp, ir would be ready for 2.10
[06:04] <sivang> the search option is already avialable in cvs head.
[06:04] <WW> sivang: 2.10? What about warty?
[06:05] <sivang> WW : well, we could do a backport of it into warty, I'm sure there would be no problem.
[06:05] <sivang> When this get's finsih, people with warties would get updated through the regular cycle of aptitude, synatpic or whatever.
[06:09] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) well I am going to look at a new car
[06:09] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) bbl
[06:10] <WW> OK, I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.  Is there a rough estimate for when the new FAQ/Book/whatever will be available? Just ballpark: weeks? months?
[06:11] <WW> ... or, more likely, "we don't know yet!" :)
[06:18] <ChrisH> Err... I'm still confused. So our two documents will be FAQ and Book/User's Guide?
[06:19] <sivang> ChrisH : main document - Ubuntu Handbook
[06:20] <ChrisH> 18:00 < hornbeck> I thought we where moving stuff into the book not the faq?
[06:20] <ChrisH> That confused me.
[06:20] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) well you said to change the faq to another name
[06:20] <sivang> FAQ can be a section in the handbook, and can also be distributed seperatly, however I would like more be it in one bundle
[06:20] <ChrisH> So the FAQ is dead? Where is the book?
[06:20] <ChrisH> Okay. So the /faq repository will be used for the User's Guide.
[06:20] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) <ChrisH> hornbeck: Let's rename the FAQ (but keep the Subversion path for now) to something like "Ubuntu User's Guide" (?) and everybody picks a section.
[06:20] <ChrisH> Okay... :)
[06:21] <sivang> The book should go like "this is the handbook blah blah blah, if you just inrested in common pits and falls, read the FAQ section first"
[06:21] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Sorry. I have a bad flu currently and my brain doesn't work as usual. ;)
[06:21] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) I thought we where all going to work on the book?
[06:21] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) in the emails it sounded like we where going to move information into the current book
[06:22] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Will you be preparing the new TOC according to the structure used in /wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline
[06:22] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: hold on one sec
[06:22] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) from what I understood, we where going to move alot of the data from the faq into the current book.  Am I wrong?
[06:23] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Yes. So the "current book" means the "faq repository".
[06:23] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) ChrisH: Why does it mean that and not the "Book repository"?
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) The book already has the format for a book
[06:24] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I mean... is it still the /faq repository we moved from my to you server?
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) yes it is the faq repository
[06:24] <ChrisH> hornbeck: ok
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) man you must be sick
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) :-)
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) http://<IP_ADDRESS>/book
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) is where the "Learning Ubuntu" book is located
[06:24] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) that is what I have been working on
[06:25] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) which is what http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline is based on
[06:25] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) all the stuff for a book is already there
[06:25] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) we have started it
[06:25] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) there is no point in starting over
[06:30] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) hello?
[06:32] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) well I am leaving now, I will be back later
[06:40] <ChrisH> hornbeck: sry, voip
[07:10] <Hoodster> Hi guys. I am looking to contribute again this weekend. However, I have a few questions before I do.
[07:11] <ChrisH> sure
[07:12] <Hoodster> First, is it necessary that I update via svn? When I try, the url that contained the repository doesn't appear to be accessible.
[07:13] <ChrisH> Hoodster: did you notice we switched to http://<IP_ADDRESS>/... ?
[07:14] <Hoodster> ChrisH: Unfortunately, I did not. BTW - How would I notice that (hehe).
[07:14] <ChrisH> Hoodster: :)
[07:15] <Hoodster> ChrisH: Is the rest of the URL the same? Do I have to do a full checkout first?
[07:15] <ChrisH> Hoodster: run: svn switch --relocate http://ubuntu.workaround.org:8080/faq http://<IP_ADDRESS>/faq
[07:19] <Hoodster> ChrisH: That appears to work. How will I ever remember these commands (hehe)
[07:27] <Hoodster> ChrisH: What needs to be done? I can work on various parts, such as more non-free installation issues. I can also add a section on how to automatically mount MSWindows partitions after a fresh install. These are only my suggestions, but I am happy to contribute on other, more important, areas.
[07:36] <ChrisH> plovs_work: What is the status of the XML file currently? Have you changed anything in the contents of the faq-guide.xml? Or is it just a split version of the faq.xml? Because we should adopt hornbeck's structure and I'm not sure where to start.
[07:54] <Hoodster> ChrisH: I just remembered, I believe the update worked, but how do I confirm it? Is there a date or some other way I can tell that I have an updated FAQ list? Also, if you don't have any objection to what I proposed earlier, then I will get back to work. My plan is to install so that there is mp3 support. Let me know if there are any objections.
[08:15] <plovs> hi guys
[08:17] <Hoodster> Hi plovs
[08:18] <Hoodster> I am ready to get back in the contributing stage. I wis thinking of adding to the non-free section, like mp3 if it is not being done already.
[08:18] <Hoodster> plovs: What do you think? Alternatively, is there a more urgent area to work on?
[08:33] <ChrisH> Hoodster: you will not loose anything if you have the wrong repository.
[08:38] <Hoodster> ChrisH: Thank you for replying. That is good to know. I apologize if my questions are a bit of an annoyance. I am sure you and plovs just want people to get to work, and here is this guy Hoodster that keeps asking these mundane questions, geesh (LOL).
[08:43] <pl0vs_> Hoodster, no problem, better ask then not doing anything at all
[08:44] <pl0vs_> ChrisH, nice mail you wrote, we should do with that
[08:45] <pl0vs_> something with that
[08:45] <sivang> Hoodster : see the topic :))
[08:46] <sivang> Hoodster : Questions are always welcomed :)
[08:47] <Hoodster> sivang: I am glad you clarified that... I thought you were referring to the part on code of conduct (hehe). I do find this to be a great bunch of guys. I will go ahead and add more to the FAQ, submit them and report back here tomorrow.
[08:47] <Hoodster> Talk to you later guys!
[08:50] <sivang> Hoodster : ok, look again:)
[10:55] <ChrisH> plovs_work: thanks :)
[11:07] <ChrisH> plovs_work: Am I right that you didn't change the content of the .xml files but just the structure?


[11:13] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[14:05] <icey> ahoy
[14:06] <icey> teddy-dbear: you're so steadfast, here every day even when nobody else responds ;-)
[14:06] <JonathanD> Good morning.
[14:13] <teddy-dbear> that's the life of a teddy bear :P


  [Eurovision presenter voice]
[08:10] <hikiko> and all :P
[08:10] <hikiko> lol
[08:11] <Sweet5hark> duflu: Oh! _Thats_ why pitti and seb128 always speak french here!
[08:11] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:11] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark ;-) how are you? still frowning at cups? ;-)
[08:12]  * duflu ducks along with the rest of asia
[08:12] <pitti> Sweet5hark: quoi ? tu sais que français est la langue officielle d'équipe du bureau  :)
[08:12] <pitti> salut seb128 !
[08:13] <seb128> lut pitti, ça va bien ?
[08:13] <hikiko> are you at the office?
[08:14] <Sweet5hark> seb128: not frowning anymore, wisened up and ignore it: I found that there is an env var in LibreOffice (SAL_DISABLE_CUPS) that prevents cups to be bootstraped. I started a build over night on the sbuild ....
[08:14] <pitti> seb128: oui, ma rhume est mieux, je vais courier à nouveau aujourd'hui
[08:14] <pitti> Sweet5hark: wow, libo bundles cups?
[08:15] <Sweet5hark> seb128: ... and while it ended up being killed because I ran out of discspace, it did so when packing the final .debs, so I think it helped.
[08:15] <seb128> pitti, ah, nice!
[08:15] <seb128> Sweet5hark, nice, time for another yakkety upload then?
[08:18] <Sweet5hark> pitti: no, it doesnt bundle cups. It uses cups, and when it inits cups (just to find out how many printers there are etc.), the linked cups lib hangs itself. But only on a sbuild, not on e.g. a full yakkety VM. And as we are running unittests on sbuild: hanging CUPS => hanging unittest => killed build.
[08:18] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yep.
[08:18] <Laney> hi pitti Trevinho willcooke Sweet5hark davmor2 hikiko and duflu
[08:19] <Laney> the best pop group there ever was
[08:19] <Trevinho> hi Laney
[08:19] <seb128> Sweet5hark, is the difference that local build is able to contact to cups where the sbuild one is not?
[08:19] <seb128> hey anyway Laney :p
[08:19] <seb128> hey Trevinho
[08:19] <Laney> omg
[08:19] <Laney> and seb128
[08:19] <seb128> :-)
[08:19] <Laney> see now you get a line on your own
[08:19] <seb128> I feel special!
[08:20]  * seb128 is happy
[08:20] <hikiko> hi Trevinho Laney and seb128
[08:21] <seb128> hey hikiko
[08:21] <seb128> hum, new nautilus bug reports :-/
[08:21] <Sweet5hark> seb128: I dont think so, the libreoffice code even tests if there is anything looking alive before trying more: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/unx/generic/printer/cupsmgr.cxx#217
[08:22] <seb128> e.g bug #1615866
[08:25] <Sweet5hark> seb128: so maybe, its rather the other way around: this never worked on a sbuild but with the old cups, httpConnectEncrypt() failed, libreoffice skipped trying more with it. now, this doesnt fail for some reason and thus libreoffice calls cupsGetDests2 on it, which then goes off to lala-land in some way ...
[08:25] <seb128> Sweet5hark, k, in any case let's add the python build-depends and the SAL_DISABLE_CUPS and do an upload
[08:27] <Sweet5hark> seb128: I think for LibreOffice skipping over cups init for unittests is the proper solution anyway. But if there is other desktop stuff doing magic hangs on buildds, here a hint that it might be because of cups acting funny after the update.
[08:28] <seb128> yeah
[08:28] <seb128> did you manage to get a debug bt of the hang?
[08:28] <seb128> it might still be useful to know what call is hanging and if it's supposed to
[08:28] <seb128> that looks buggy in any case, might be a bug in libcups, should timeout and doesn't
[08:28] <Sweet5hark> seb128: right. well, I didnt add a python b-d, but rather used 2to3 on the script and explicitly made it use python3 ...
[08:28] <seb128> wfm
[08:28] <seb128> even better!
[08:28] <seb128> did you look at the rules command errors btw?
[08:29] <seb128> invalid syntax or whatever it was
[08:29] <seb128> and the control being regenerated
[08:33] <Sweet5hark> seb128: @debug backtrace nope, didnt have that in the sbuild env at the time. @rule command errors: not too deep. FWIW the "fall back on default GJC" warning was even added by me and it is harmless in general.
[08:35] <Sweet5hark> seb128: @control regen: I looked at it, and the dependecies defined in ./debian/rules are a bit odd. But if there is no trouble with it now, I would punt that for yakkety, rather do it early in the cycle (or better: right at debian). we also have to care about the gtk3 theming issues etc.
[08:37] <seb128> right
[08:37] <seb128> Sweet5hark, k, in any case seems you should have a new revision ready for upload this morning, let me know when you need a dput ;-) (and send your DMB email :p)
[08:38]  * Sweet5hark re-adjusts his twisted nose.
[08:38] <Sweet5hark> seb128: aye
[09:32] <andyrock> morning
[09:35] <Sweet5hark> heh, some in germany think loud about revitalizing conscription (suspended since 2010). Keep calm and carry on.
[09:43] <Laney> hey andyrock!
[09:45] <Laney> come va?
[10:01] <Laney> WELL THEN
[10:15] <xnox> Laney, celebrity! =) http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-10-yakkety-yak-now-in-feature-freeze-first-beta-to-land-august-25-507541.shtml
[10:16] <xnox> "Ubuntu and Debian developer Iain Lane"
[10:19] <Laney> xnox: I know man, it's been crazy
[10:19] <Laney> xnox: https://youtu.be/5EsJVIbJPPs?t=1m21s
[10:21] <xnox> awww i should watch that movie again
[10:28] <Laney> :3
[10:35] <Laney> there's a GCSE in climbing coming out
[10:35] <Laney> WINNING
[11:18] <flocculant> Laney: I assume that a fail in that would involve some pain ...
[11:39] <Laney> flocculant: incentive to perform well
[11:39]  * Laney looks at scar on ankle
[11:39] <Laney> ...
[13:07] <qengho> Good morning, y'all.
[13:07] <willcooke> morning qengho
[13:08] <seb128> hey qengho
[13:30] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, seb128 jfyi, let's see how this goes -- https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/6826278/+listing-archive-extra
[13:32] <seb128> ricotz, changelog doesn't reflect the actual changes right?
[13:32] <ricotz> seb128, no, the diff does
[13:32] <seb128> seems like you have python3 changes and extra env
[13:32] <seb128> right
[13:32] <seb128> I think that's what Sweet5hark tested earlier manually
[13:33] <ricotz> yes, I know
[13:33] <seb128> still cups shouldn't hand, would be nice if somebody could get a bt of one of the processes which are stucked
[13:34] <ricotz> seb128, obviously :\
[13:34] <Trevinho> Laney: I've tried again to land the systemd unity7 branch, but still it won't work....
[13:34] <Trevinho> Laney: unity-services : Depends: indicator-common but it is not installable
[13:34] <ricotz> xenial/16.04 is still in need for libreoffice 5.1.5
[13:34] <Trevinho> tedg: you were aware of that, so... when will be that landable?
[13:35] <Trevinho> (see above)
[13:35] <tedg> Trevinho: Hopefully today, need to get a publish on this silo, then I can rebuild it.
[13:35]  * tedg may have said that yesterday
[13:36] <Laney> Trevinho: ok, thanks for trying!
[13:36] <Trevinho> tedg: so... you want to land that, or should I use my silo?
[13:36] <Trevinho> I mean for the unity7 branch
[13:36] <Trevinho> tedg: since it's in https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1839
[13:36] <Trevinho> tedg: but... i can get rid of it
[13:37] <tedg> Trevinho: You can throw libindicator into your silo
[13:37] <Trevinho> tedg: ok, what's the MP?
[13:37]  * Trevinho figures it out
[13:37] <tedg> Trevinho: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/libindicator/systemd-unit/+merge/300349
[13:37] <Trevinho> tedg: you also need a review for that?
[13:38] <tedg> Uhm, yes.
[13:38] <tedg> Trevinho: I'd ask seb128 since you'll need him for the packaging changes anyway
[13:39] <seb128> Trevinho, tedg, technically you might need a ffe for such changes now
[13:39] <Trevinho> eh... that was something I was wondering too
[13:39] <Trevinho> but since Laney told me to land...
[13:40] <seb128> the description is weird
[13:40] <seb128> "insure that the indicators will start after they've already started"
[13:40] <seb128> start after they started? what does that mean exactly?
[13:41] <tedg> It is unclear, but I think the subject is "host"
[13:41] <tedg> So it would be after the host has already started
[13:41] <seb128> I see, a bit difficult to read
[13:41] <Laney> Not for Unity, since it is actively buggy right now
[13:41] <seb128> but otherwise +1 on the changes from me
[13:41] <Laney> Arguable for the rest
[13:41] <tedg> Yeah, definitely awkward
[13:55]  * Laney cries
[13:56]  * Laney uncries
[13:58] <pitti> hey tedg, how are you?
[13:58] <pitti> Laney: that was fast :)
[13:59]  * Sweet5hark watches Laney, steal his uncry pills for future use ....
[13:59] <tedg> pitti: Eh, okay. Happy that things seem to be getting unjammed a bit now.
[13:59] <Laney> I apparently typoed a module import
[13:59] <tedg> Huge backlog though :-(
[13:59] <Laney> my eyes couldn't see it
[13:59] <Laney> but copy and paste made the error go away
[13:59] <Laney> go figure
[14:03] <tedg> So to make sure I'm clear, we're gonna let libindicator land with Unity. But then for the other indicator units I should make an FFE request?
[14:13] <pitti> not sure if we can really consider that a feature, given that it's a half-done implementation already
[14:14] <pitti> tedg: you mean for landing the systemd units?
[14:14] <tedg> Yes
[14:14] <tedg> There was discussion in the backlog on it.
[14:14] <Laney> How close to being ready is it?
[14:15] <pitti> tedg: I asked some questions about the silo yesterday, but I figure they got drowned in the noise -- in particular, whether we can land the indicators without unity when keeping some stubs in the overrides (i. e. not just "manual")
[14:15] <tedg> As soon as the indicators get through proposed, then we can rebuild those and make sure they still work. I believe they will, but, of course, reality :-)
[14:16] <tedg> pitti: Well it seems right now Unity is easier to land, but yes we could do that.
[14:16] <pitti> tedg: ok, WFM too :)
[14:17] <Laney> I'm going to freeze for beta 1 later on fyi
[14:32] <Trevinho> tedg: unfortunately there's still something to fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity/systemd-unit./+merge/300624/comments/784090
[14:33] <tedg> Trevinho: Huh, sure. Wonder why they built for me... will fix.
[14:38] <Sweet5hark> Laney, seb128: is 5.2.0-0ubuntu2 already in?
[14:40] <Laney> Sweet5hark: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice says not
[14:44] <Trevinho> tedg: they do build... but won't install unless the correct order is used
[14:46] <seb128> Sweet5hark, ? did you give me a sponsoring url? if so I didn't see it sorry (but IRC timeouted a bit earlier)
[14:47] <Sweet5hark> (12:03:09) Sweet5hark: seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/yakkety/5.2.0/libreoffice_5.2.0-0ubuntu2_source.changes <- please consider uploading
[14:47] <tedg> Trevinho: Ah, I must not have noticed. OTP, then I'll fix it.
[14:48] <Trevinho> tedg: thanks
[14:48] <Sweet5hark> seb128: sorry didnt look for that to be ack'ed
[14:49] <seb128> Sweet5hark, was that on this channel? I don't have it in the backlog and was around, weird ... anyway doing that now, or did you ask because you had some extra changes?
[14:51] <Sweet5hark> it was on this channel ... but speaking about it, it was after I switched to VPN to upload it, which does weird things sometimes after switching. So if nobody saw it, I fscked it up on my side, not you ...
[15:02] <seb128> Sweet5hark, k, no worry, still ... you were asking because it's not upload or because you wanted to stop the line to do more changes? ;-)
[15:02] <seb128> or said different, should I upload it now or not?
[15:03] <Sweet5hark> seb128: please just upload
[15:03] <seb128> k
[15:29] <qengho> O hai.
[15:30] <willcooke> \o/
[15:30] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-08-23
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 23 15:30:28 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:30] <seb128> hey
[15:30] <Laney> that time again
[15:31] <willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, attente (at conf), desrt (at conf),  dgadomski, fjkong, happyaron (out), hikiko (out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:31] <Trevinho> o/
[15:31] <Sweet5hark> heya
[15:31] <andyrock> hey
[15:32] <dgadomski> hey
[15:32] <willcooke> I'm going to quit on the day soon and go and feel ill in the corner, so pressing on...
[15:32] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:32] <andyrock> 1. [BUG:940470] Windows that resize themselves while in windows are spread (Super + W) leave old pixels behind
[15:32] <andyrock> 2. [BUG:1604632] Dash filter can't scroll with cursor on dropdown
[15:32] <andyrock> 3. [BUG:913880] mouse scroll down over sound indicator while expo is active selects previous desktop
[15:32] <andyrock> 4. [BUG:1614116] Switching maximized windows using the spread might lead to wrong title.
[15:32] <andyrock> 5. Bug triaging
[15:33] <andyrock> 6. Setup everything to start with unity8
[15:33] <andyrock> eof
[15:33] <willcooke> awesome, thanks andyrock
[15:33] <willcooke> #topic dgadomski
[15:33] <dgadomski> hey
[15:33] <dgadomski> * looks like bug #1598183 needs to be fixed in applications - looking into gedit and libreoffice to implement it
[15:33] <dgadomski> * has an initial version of RawTherapee snap. Looking for a way of overriding XDG_CONFIG_HOME inside the snap (RawTherapee uses g_get_user_config_dir) or patching the source
[15:33] <dgadomski> eof
[15:34] <willcooke> thanks dgadomski
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic FJKong
[15:34] <seb128> dgadomski, let's discuss the snappy thing after the meeting
[15:35] <dgadomski> seb128: sure, thanks
[15:35] <seb128> yw!
[15:35] <willcooke> guess FJKong is out.
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:35] <willcooke> 1. dkms/<IP_ADDRESS>+git20160527-1
[15:35] <willcooke> 2. n-m/1.2.2 SRU in -proposed
[15:35] <willcooke> 3. libxslt/1.1.29
[15:35] <willcooke> 4. libpinyin MIR
[15:35] <willcooke> 5. ubuntukylin-theme/1.6.0 sponsored
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:36] <Laney> oops
[15:36] <seb128> he's still typing :-)
[15:36] <Laney> I was finding an emoji
[15:36] <willcooke> lol
[15:37] <qengho> :emoji"
[15:37] <Laney> • Fix gnome-terminal LP: #123456789 links not working
[15:37] <Laney> • Update glib (twice, the second time to fix a udeb bug)
[15:37] <Laney> • Cherry-pick some patches for asglib and NMU them to fix build failures on 32 bit in reverse deps
[15:37] <Laney> • Fix unity-greeter shutdown dialog
[15:37] <Laney> • Make graphical-session-pre.target able to be manually started again, to not break the boot /o\
[15:37] <Laney> • Make firefox go into yakkety release
[15:37] <Laney> • Implement + announce DIF + FF
[15:37] <Laney> • Go around a couple of times on the gnome-keyring/logind patch - it got merged, so upload that (can drop the hack in upstart whenever now)
[15:37] <Laney> • Finish asgen DDTP translation support after ximion's review - that got merged now
[15:37] <Laney> • Work on langpack support now (iainlane/langpack on github), getting there but it's a bit dirtier than I might like
[15:37] <Laney> • Will be helping flavours a bit with beta 1 this week
[15:37] <Laney> 😈
[15:37] <willcooke> thanks Laney, great stuff
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic qengho
[15:37] <qengho> Hello my lovelies.
[15:37] <qengho> * Pruning and re-doing some of Chromium's deb rules. Cr new "GN" build system exposed ugliness.
[15:37] <qengho> * Fighting some clang assumptions in new Chromium.
[15:37] <qengho> * Adding Mir as backend to Chromium's Ozone interface. Should take a while.
[15:37] <qengho> * G Chrome snap, maybe? Todo.
[15:37] <qengho> EOF
[15:37] <qengho> meetingology: you so slow
[15:37] <meetingology> qengho: Error: "you" is not a valid command.
[15:38] <seb128> qengho, is there any news about the geoloc issues?
[15:38] <willcooke> heh, thanks speedy qengho
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:38] <seb128> • uploaded livecd-rootfs changes for snappy/xdg-open, iterated with another bugfix
[15:38] <seb128> • submitted fix for u-c-c user login history being empty
[15:38] <seb128> • upstreamed some e.u.c reports from the desktop set issues
[15:38] <seb128> • sponsoring (g-s-m yakkety/xenial, libreoffice 5.2)
[15:38] <seb128> • software-properties/enabling of proposed UI tweaks suggested by desin
[15:38] <seb128> • tested yakkety daily, found issues, starting reporting bugs and debuggin some
[15:38] <seb128> • helped with some SRUs verifications

[15:38] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
[15:38] <Sweet5hark> - finally reproduced and triaged the nasty "LibreOffice hangs on sbuild" bug down to something going terribly wrong on cups init (this took way too much time unfortunately)
[15:38] <Sweet5hark> - disabled cups for unittests in LibreOffice
[15:38] <Sweet5hark> - some conference travel and coordination, some upstream admin
[15:38] <Sweet5hark> - now back to the gtk3 theming issue
[15:38] <Sweet5hark> EOF
[15:39] <willcooke> ha
[15:39] <willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
[15:39] <seb128> lol
[15:39] <seb128> laggy bot!
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic TheMuso
[15:39] <seb128> Sweet5hark, did you get a debug bt of the hang? we should still open a cups report
[15:39] <willcooke> * Managed to get accessibility profile manager functionality improvements in by feature freeze. yay!
[15:39] <willcooke> * Spent time working on trying to get accessibility functionality to be applied when enabling a profile during the oem config wizard.
[15:39] <willcooke> * Started testing pulseaudio in a purely snappy environment on a pi, in a bid to help find bugs.
[15:39] <willcooke> * Updated a couple of accessibil
[15:40] <willcooke> I think I missed hikiko
[15:40] <Sweet5hark> seb128: nope not yet
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic hikiko
[15:40] <seb128> k
[15:40] <willcooke> - the moving window problem
[15:40] <willcooke> - some bugs in expo plugin
[15:40] <willcooke> - investigated some Y compiz bugs but I couldn't reproduce them
[15:40] <willcooke> - optimisations
[15:40] <seb128> willcooke, TheMuso reports looked like it has been cut?
[15:40] <willcooke> hmm
[15:40] <willcooke> let's try that again
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic TheMuso
[15:40] <seb128> well
[15:40] <seb128> " * Updated a couple of accessibil"
[15:40] <seb128> that one at least?
[15:41] <willcooke> * Managed to get accessibility profile manager functionality improvements in by feature freeze. yay!
[15:41] <willcooke> * Spent time working on trying to get accessibility functionality to be applied when enabling a profile during the oem config wizard.
[15:41] <willcooke> * Started testing pulseaudio in a purely snappy environment on a pi, in a bid to help find bugs.
[15:41] <willcooke> * Updated a couple of accessibility related packages to new upstrea versions again in time for feature freeze.
[15:41] <seb128> k, better :p
[15:41] <willcooke> :)
[15:41] <seb128> thanks!
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:41] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Issues 1.11.1 before our FF to make it Yakkety's cups-filters package. It contains MuPDF support, configurable file locations for cups-browsed (for snapping), and -dNOMEDIAATTRS in all Ghostscript calls.
[15:41] <tkamppeter> - foomatoc-db: Added -dNOMEDIAATTRS to all Ghostscript calls.
[15:41] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Guide students through the finalization and submission of their projects.
[15:41] <tkamppeter> - Bugs
[15:41] <willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:42] <Trevinho> · Created the Input monitor for unity using XI2, fixing various bugs in indicators and lockscreen event handling
[15:42] <Trevinho> · New landing for unity in yakkety
[15:42] <Trevinho> · Fixed a race in panel service menus destruction
[15:42] <Trevinho> · Prepared a new SRU for unity
[15:42] <Trevinho> · Some study in unity8 tests failures
[15:42] <willcooke> thanks Trevinho
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:42] <willcooke> - snapd-glib released
[15:42] <willcooke> - GNOME Software 3.20 merging
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:43] <willcooke> attente, and desrt are at LinuxCon today, and poss. tomorrow as well
[15:43] <qengho> willcooke, seb128 googleapi?
[15:43] <seb128> no weekly summary emailed from them?
[15:43] <Laney> are they promoting snappy?
[15:44]  * Laney imagines them all dressed up business like
[15:44] <seb128> qengho, yeah, what's the deal there? seems like it's still buggy...
[15:44] <willcooke> Laney, yeah
[15:44] <seb128> qengho, when do we get new keys in place and SRUs?
[15:44] <willcooke> seb128, reports they won't have had time, it was all a bit last minute
[15:45] <seb128> k
[15:45]  * Trevinho forgot some stuff.... · Added some decorations for launcher/panel when using the spread · Fixed CSS names for gtk 3.20 in forcequit dialog · Removed some unneeded duplicated textures for rotated launcher (rotated on draw now) · Fixed a libframe crash
[15:45] <Laney> that force quit thing was only this week?
[15:46] <Laney> time is weird
[15:46] <Trevinho> Laney: no, actually it wasn't forcequit :-D
[15:46] <Laney> hrhr
[15:46] <Trevinho> Laney: it was decorations style... I misread my branch name
[15:46] <Trevinho> Laney: that was weeks before
[15:47] <willcooke> qengho, lets' talk api keys in a mo and #endmeeting
[15:48] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[15:48] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 23 15:48:10 2016 UTC.
[15:48] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-08-23-15.30.moin.txt
[15:50] <seb128> thanks!
[15:50] <qengho> seb128: getting new key is instant. If it's someone abusing our keys, we need Google's help, and if it's not, we need Google to raise our quota.
[15:50] <seb128> qengho, I though the plan was to get new keys, maybe different by series and see how things go
[15:53] <dgadomski> seb128: got a minute to talk about that snap?
[15:54] <qengho> seb128: I suggested that because it was the only thing I *could* do, but it probably won't solve the problem.
[15:54] <attente> hey sorry i didn't email my updates, but besides linuxcon i've been working on the snapcraft jhbuild plugin still
[15:55] <seb128> hey attente
[15:55] <seb128> how is linuxcon?
[15:55] <attente> cloudy
[15:55] <seb128> qengho, well, it's better than doing nothing which we have been doing for some weeks...
[15:56] <seb128> dgadomski, sure! what are you trying to do?
[15:56] <dgadomski> seb128: I need to override where RawTherapee stores its data (normally in ~/.config/RawTherapee)
[15:57] <seb128> dgadomski, why?
[15:57] <seb128> the snap ~/ exists and is the right place
[15:57] <seb128> it's just a private location and not the outside userdir
[15:58] <dgadomski> oh, I thought having it in SNAP_USER_DATA is mandatory
[15:58] <dgadomski> seb128: if the current path is fine then I'm good :)
[15:58] <seb128> qengho, so we are getting new keys? or was that a suggestion but that was not decided?
[15:58] <seb128> dgadomski, no, you need to store in SNAP_USER_DATA
[15:59] <seb128> dgadomski, unsure if you use a wrapper, but like the common desktop one redefine XDG_DATA_HOME
[16:00] <seb128> dgadomski, if you don't use the desktop one you probably a custom one that does export XDG_DATA_HOME=$SNAP_USER_DATA/.local-$SNAP_VERSION/share or similar
[16:00] <dgadomski> seb128: I'm using the desktop-launch one
[16:00] <seb128> k
[16:01] <seb128> well it's redefining it
[16:01] <seb128> so it should work and make your config be written in $SNAP_USER_DATA/.local
[16:02] <dgadomski> ok, I get it, looks like it works as advertised ;)
[16:02] <dgadomski> seb128: seems it was already ok, thank you
[16:03] <seb128> dgadomski, yw!
[16:35] <seb128> happyaron, shrug, the nm git is still not in working state, you add a "applet-fix-handling-of-802.1x-secrets-for-ethernet-c.patch" to the serie but there is no such file, there is a lp1579246_fix_handling_8021x_secrets_for_eth.patch which is not in the serie though, also you removed 2 patches for the icon thing and added 1 back under another name without explanation in the changelog ... and still not 1.2.4 update?
[16:38] <happyaron> seb128: will be ready tomorrow
[16:38] <seb128> happyaron, thanks
[16:39] <Laney> attente: closed many business deals?
[16:39] <seb128> happyaron, did you try to build it? I wonder if I'm doing something wrong
[16:39] <seb128> happyaron, but the series seems wrong compared to the actual .patch names?
[16:41] <seb128> going for some exercice, bbl
[16:41] <happyaron> ah, staged but not committed...
[16:42] <seb128> :-/
[16:43] <seb128> the other patches shuffling is a bit confusing but looks correct at least
[16:43] <seb128> happyaron, I'm going to have another look tomorrow morning then, you should stop working for today it's late ;-)
[16:45] <happyaron> pushed
[16:45] <happyaron> :)
[16:45] <seb128> thanks
[16:45]  * happyaron is almost in bed
[16:45] <seb128> happyaron, have a good night, and thanks for the fixing the update!
[16:45] <happyaron> ty!
[17:02] <Laney> night!
[17:02] <Laney> time to climb
[19:26] <jbicha> Laney: yes, the g-terminal maintainer is open to using the gsettings key for Inspector instead now https://bugzilla.gnome.org/770245


[15:55] <knome> somebody here for the cooperation meeting?
[16:00] <knome> anybody for the cooperation meeting? let's start in a few minutes.
[16:00] <cody-somerville> I'm here
[16:02]  * charlie-tca waves
[16:03] <knome> right, so anybody *not* from xubuntu here?
[16:03]  * tgm4883 isn't from xubuntu
[16:03] <knome> ok. let's wait for a few more minutes for people to arrive
[16:04] <tgm4883> not sure what happens in this meeting, but Mythbuntu people are here
[16:04] <knome> tgm4883, you can see the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
[16:04] <tgm4883> knome, thanks
[16:05] <knome> let's start then, shall we
[16:05] <knome> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:05. The chair is knome.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:06] <knome> So we're here to discuss about the things raised up in UDS Jaunty
[16:07] <knome> We have a set of notes collected from the meeting on the wiki
[16:07] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
[16:07] <knome> You can also see through the agenda we have today from the wiki
[16:07] <knome> [TOPIC] Making and keeping contact lists up-to-date
[16:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Making and keeping contact lists up-to-date
[16:08] <knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[16:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[16:08] <knome> there is a contact/team list in the ubuntu wiki, which happens to be quite outdated.
[16:09] <knome> not all teams are even listed in it.
[16:10]  * tgm4883 will get mythbuntu on there an up to date
[16:10] <knome> what happens, when somebody wants to contact a team or several teams? where can he find the team leader contact information?
[16:10] <knome> [ACTION] tgm4883 will add MythBuntu to the Teams list
[16:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tgm4883 will add MythBuntu to the Teams list
[16:11] <knome> this is also not the only place where we have outdated information
[16:12] <knome> however as we have so little people taking part, i'll send a mail about this to the ubuntu-devel mailing list.
[16:12] <knome> [ACTION] knome mails ubuntu-devel@ ML about keeping the Teams list up-to-date
[16:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  knome mails ubuntu-devel@ ML about keeping the Teams list up-to-date
[16:12] <knome> [TOPIC] Making functional teams healthy again
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Making functional teams healthy again
[16:14] <knome> there was also discussion about the unhealthy functional teams at uds
[16:14] <knome> especially artwork team was raised up
[16:15] <knome> i've been hanging aroud their IRC channel a while and i can't say it's unhealthy, but it's very ubuntu (desktop) centric.
[16:15] <knome> there isn't really any conversation about the xubuntu, kubuntu or mythbuntu artwork
[16:16] <knome> any ideas how to get cooperation working better?
[16:16] <knome> how can we contact the artists within several flavor teams?
[16:16] <Riddell> in kubuntu we are happy using KDE artwork for the most part
[16:16] <tgm4883> well for the most part, mythbuntu artwork consists of themes for mythtv, which we have been having conversations about in our own channel
[16:17] <tgm4883> We felt it better this way as mythtv themes have zero relevance in other distros
[16:17] <knome> Riddell, what about countdown banners or wallpapers?
[16:18] <Riddell> knome: wallpapers are from KDE.  countdown banners we're done separately before
[16:19] <knome> tgm4883, i see your point there. we also develop and discuss about xubuntu artwork on our own channel, but i've asked for some feedback for them on the artwork channel
[16:20] <knome> Riddell, right. have your artists followed the ubuntu-artwork list and looked at what they were doing with the banners
[16:20] <knome> i feel the artwork channel should be a place to discuss every piece of artwork made
[16:21] <knome> and for artists, a place to get feedback from other artists, not only developers
[16:22] <knome> Riddell, tgm4883: can you think of pointing your artists to show off their stuff to ubuntu-artwork list or irc channel?
[16:22] <knome> personally i'd like to see what's going on because we could greatly benefit from the work of others
[16:23] <tgm4883> i'll point our art team to show their work in the ubuntu-artwork channel, there are only two members on that team so I don't guarentee that they will develop the themes in that channel though
[16:23] <tgm4883> but i'll get them to at least show their work
[16:24] <knome> [IDEA] Team leaders to encourage artists to show off their artwork in the artwork team IRC channel and/or mailing list
[16:24] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Team leaders to encourage artists to show off their artwork in the artwork team IRC channel and/or mailing list
[16:24] <knome> tgm4883, right. thanks. i think that's valuable.
[16:24] <Riddell> knome: we don't have artists
[16:25] <knome> Riddell, right. so you would greatly benefit if the artwrok team could work on several flavors rather than sticking to just one?
[16:26] <knome> *the people in the artwork team
[16:27] <knome> i remember somebody saying that ubuntu studio is quite full of artists and they don't have tasks to work on. maybe they could help you.
[16:27] <knome> Riddell, do we agree? :)
[16:28] <tgm4883> well if Riddell doesn't want there help, i'm sure we can find something for them to do ;)
[16:28] <knome> right.
[16:28] <knome> [ACTION] team leader to encourage artists to work cross-flavorwise.
[16:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  team leader to encourage artists to work cross-flavorwise.
[16:29] <knome> [ACTION] Team leaders to inform the artwork team for job opporunities (Ubuntu Wanted)
[16:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Team leaders to inform the artwork team for job opporunities (Ubuntu Wanted)
[16:29] <knome> somebody has any comments?
[16:30] <knome> ok, let's move to the next item.
[16:31] <knome> [TOPIC] Restarting art.ubuntu.com
[16:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Restarting art.ubuntu.com
[16:31] <knome> again, i'm referring to the UDS session
[16:32] <knome> i don't think we can get really anywhere here as we don't have many artists here, so let's skip this topic if nobody wants to say anything?
[16:33] <knome> [TOPIC] Mailing list for flavor cooperation
[16:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing list for flavor cooperation
[16:33] <knome> again, i'm referring to UDS session...
[16:34] <knome> when we had the session, we decided to set up a mailing list for all kind of cross-flavor information and cooperation things
[16:35] <knome> Luis Guimera (luisbg) volunteered to create the list, but i don't know about the current state
[16:35] <knome> [ACTION] knome to poke luisbg about the cooperation list
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  knome to poke luisbg about the cooperation list
[16:36] <knome> [TOPIC] Monthly coordination meetings
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Monthly coordination meetings
[16:37] <knome> we had a discussion about monthly coordination meetings like this with Emmet (persia)
[16:37] <knome> i see quite a little sense to pick any dates here as we have such a lousy participation
[16:38] <knome> i personally think we would benefit from this kinds of meetings
[16:38] <knome> if we had enough people to participate and from different teams
[16:39] <knome> any comments on this?
[16:40] <cody-somerville> What would we talk about?
[16:40] <knome> any arisen issues and needs for cooperation.
[16:40] <knome> decisions which would affect other flavors
[16:41] <knome> decisions meaning changing something in a package
[16:42] <knome> i talked with robbie williamson from foundations and he also took note that they could try to inform about things maybe broken a bit better
[16:42] <knome> the meeting could be a good place to discuss those
[16:43] <knome> it's also valuable to know how things are coming up on a different flavor
[16:43] <knome> maybe there is something they might need a helping hand but are not quite sure where to ask
[16:44] <knome> if you look at the wiki page, there is also some issues that arose in the uds session
[16:45] <knome> any comments?
[16:47] <knome> right...
[16:49] <knome> [ACTION] knome will talk with people and set up a new meeting for april if it seems worthwhile
[16:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  knome will talk with people and set up a new meeting for april if it seems worthwhile
[16:50] <knome> [TOPIC] Any other arisen discussions
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other arisen discussions
[16:50] <knome> anything you want to say?
[16:52] <knome> i talked with _MMA_ and i see this is something people have tried to get up earlier.
[16:53] <knome> maybe we can't get it working now either or maybe we can.
[16:53] <knome> let's end this meeting as it's starting to be a monologue.
[16:54] <knome> thanks for participating and sorry it turned out that there was not much people to have discussions.
[16:54] <knome> #endmeeting
[16:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:54.


[06:29] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:55] <alesan> hello
[07:55] <alesan> how can I disable the "graphical" bootup sequence and go back to the regular "dmesg" like boot?
[07:55] <alesan> and then start X when it is ready
[08:11] <hateball> oh they left
[09:03] <ylel9> hello
[09:11] <hateball> hello to you
[10:02] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[10:40] <daum> anyone have any idea i have an app (intellij) which when i open it, it opens behind any windows already maximized on screen.  Do you know where i'd look to see what is causing it to always appear behind all already open windows? This is when i click it from the task bar to bring it back from minimized
[10:42] <daum> nevermind switched from using their bundled jre and it appears to fix it
[10:43] <daum> on to my other issue from yesterday - since upgrading from 16 to 18 my konsole seems to only keep my users main group (ie running "groups" shows only my users primary group) however if I sudo -u myuser -s and run groups it properly registers all of them, any thoughts what may cause that?
[11:14] <hateball> daum: that sounds odd, I do not have that behavior and I went 16.04 -> 18.04 as well
[11:14] <hateball> ie I see all my groups
[11:25] <daum> hmm i wonder what is causing it for me
[11:25] <daum> what version of systemd do you have
[11:25] <daum> my problem seems exactly the same as https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/91jc80/help_when_opening_konsole_my_user_will_not_have/
[11:27] <daum> i did hit the bug in the upgrade where i had to move /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service as it couldn't properly do it
[11:27] <daum> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1773859
[11:28] <daum> hateball, what does your file have in it for that?
[11:31] <hateball> lemme see
[11:33] <hateball> daum: https://nopaste.xyz/?f64a006a90e0facb#561JA9nPokuswYkHnO3JNgMpPU9nfyZT2UvWT3EDlc0=
[11:34] <daum> hmm ya mines the same
[11:34] <daum> what version of systemd do you ahve
[11:37] <hateball> 237
[11:37] <hateball> I am running purely stock packages
[11:37] <daum> hm i wonder what is causing this haha
[11:37] <daum> my laptop i went up from 17 -> 18 and didn't have the issue just on my desktop which was 16->18
[13:36] <IrcsomeBot1> Albert1t0 was added by: Albert1t0
[15:13] <Mylon> Is the WWW working for anyone else?  I can't figure out why I can connect here but not anywher eelse.
[15:33] <IrcsomeBot1> Deepak_Pracheta was added by: Deepak_Pracheta
[15:37] <IrcsomeBot1> <Velizar Peshev> @Mylon, check your DNS settings
[15:38] <Mylon> Alls working now.  I think it was problems with my local ISP.
[16:19] <phoenixz> Hi all, just migrated from Mint to Kubuntu 18.04. In yakuake I'm having a few issues, and I'm hoping somebody here could help out? CTRL-INS no longer works and this drives me insane, and I cannot find anywhere where I can fix this. CTRL-INS is the system default to copy to clipboard, it works everywhere except in konsole and yakuake.  I've already tried configure shortcuts,  edit profile > keyboard.. Anybody who may be able to help with this? I
[16:19] <phoenixz> use copy / paste like once every minute and its very anoying that I have to do CTRL-SHIFT-C now, half the time I mistype and cancel scripts.. :(
[16:20] <phoenixz> Also, is there a way to CTRL-F search the console text in yakuake? I can apparently configure a shortcut to go to preferences (very useful) but not search...
[16:21] <phoenixz> For the rest, I left kubuntu around 14 because of instability issues.. Now that I am back, gotta say, I'm lovin it (minus the yakuake issues) :)
[16:36] <phoenixz> mmm.. I can configure the CTRL-INS as a copy to clipboard shortcut in Konsole, but that doesn't apply in Yakuake, and copy to clipboard is not an option in the yakuake configuration section..


[00:20] <jayjo> I noticed that the ubuntu server docs has virtualization info for GUIs: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/virtualization-virt-tools .. mainly saying to use a workstation to connect to a server. I do have a workstation that I can use to connect to a local server, but what
[00:20] <jayjo> is the recommendation for on the server itself?
[01:35] <mybalzitch> you can install x and run virt-manager locally
[01:35] <mybalzitch> proxmox is worth looking at if all you are doing is virtualization
[05:30] <cpaelzer__> Soni: yes s390x fully works
[05:31] <cpaelzer> Soni: a friend once wrote this blog which shows various ways to run it (and there would be more obviously) and all of them have network :-) http://ubuntu-on-big-iron.blogspot.com/2020/08/12-different-ways-of-running-ubuntu-server-on-kvm.html
[05:33] <cpaelzer> Soni: s390x has some special quirks, unrelated to KVM but at the Host/HW Level e.g. that you need to set the OSA card to level2+primary_router for most "bridge-through" use cases
[05:33] <cpaelzer> Soni: if you have troubles feel free to reach out if it doesn't become a day long support session :-)
[06:13] <jayjo_> I think I've got the bridge networking figured out for my two NIC VM (pfsense). But I'm installing on a headless ubuntu server. Is there way to connect to the console of pfsense through KVM on the server machine, as opposed to using something like `virt-manager -c qemu+ssh://virtnode1.mydomain.com/system` on a workstation?
[06:29] <jayjo_> this was my attempt: "virt-install --virt-type kvm --name pfsense --ram 2048 --vcpus 2 --cdrom=/home/jayjo/pfSense-CE-2.4.5-RELEASE-p1-amd64.iso --disk /home/jayjo/kvm/images/pfsense.qcow2,bus=virtio,size=10,format=qcow2 --network default --network bridge=virbr0 --graphics none --console pty,target_type=serial --os-type=linux --os-variant=freebsd10.0" but that gives me "connected to domain pfsense;
[06:29] <jayjo_> Escape character is ^]"
[06:40] <cpaelzer__> jayjo_: that means it connected you to the (virtual) console of the system
[06:40] <cpaelzer> if nothing appears thre at all then your ISO is not booting in there
[06:47] <jayjo_> hmm. Does that mean that no serial console is available in that iso? There are two memstick installations available at https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/install/download-installer-image.html, one VGA and one serial, and then the ISO.
[06:48] <cpaelzer> I don't know the pfsesne iso enough, but I'd at least expect the kernel messages to fly by initially
[06:48] <mgedmin> iirc qemu supports emulating vga via an ncurses-based text UI
[06:48] <mgedmin> the problem with serial consoles is the OS has to be configured to use it
[06:49] <cpaelzer> mgedmin: that would be "--curses" as qemu arg, the config jayjo_ uses presents no graphics (--graphics none)
[06:50] <jayjo_> that was just my attempt at installing and interacting on a server. I think I should read more into "--curses" and see if that could help with the image I have
[06:56] <cpaelzer> jayjo_: FYI the first 3/3 search engine results I've seen on this use --graphics vnc,listen=<IP_ADDRESS> so maybe it needs a graphic to be presented to the guest
[06:57] <cpaelzer> one was different and mentioned that there the cpu passed to the guest was "too new" https://forum.netgate.com/topic/148138/stuck-at-booting-kvm-ubuntu18-04-server but I can't be sure from here which case you are hitting
[07:04] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:15] <xnox> RoyK:  quite out of date. Soni: yeap, we do have OpenStack on s390x and everything it needs. thus yes, there is qemu kvm with networking.
[11:45] <Soni> xnox: cpaelzer: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pCxshZq35p/ ?
[13:23] <xnox> Soni:  using debian, not ubuntu? debian compiles for much older cpu-arch, and doens't have toolchain vectorization on, nor hw compression enabled, nor encryption accelerated at all. Thus io, network performance, http, tls, will all be a lot slower. compared to e.g. using Ubuntu 20.04 focal.
[13:23] <xnox> Soni:  also Ubuntu has support together with IBM, thus one can esclalate ubuntu issues to either Canonical or IBM, with Ubuntu. Not with debian.
[13:24] <Soni> xnox: this is qemu-system-s390x on x86_64, for what it's worth
[13:24] <xnox> Soni:  i generaly don't do things quite the same, but i guess that's taste. FOr example, instead of virtio ccw scsi, instead of ccw. ccw is very new.
[13:25] <xnox> Soni:  right, but qemu-system-s390x on x86_64 ubuntu? or debian?
[13:25] <Soni> on arch :v
[13:25] <Soni> but sure let's try ubuntu server on qemu
[13:25] <Soni> because you can never try enough distros
[13:25] <xnox> Soni:  please use ubuntu, i cannot speak for qemu on non-ubuntu. We had to build qemu correctly, with backported s390x features, and with the correct s390x firmware build as well to support ipl.
[13:26] <xnox> Soni:  when we say that s390x qemu/kvm works correctly, we do mean ubuntu host.
[13:26] <Soni> oh
[13:26] <Soni> hm
[13:26] <xnox> (hint, channel name ;-) )
[13:26] <xnox> because we did a _lot_ of work to make it work.
[13:26] <Soni> so, ubuntu on qemu on ubuntu on qemu on arch?
[13:26] <xnox> hahahahhahahhahahhaa
[13:27] <xnox> i wish one could load a co-processor kernel, on a subset of cpus, and ask to launch a process using that kernel. Such that i.e. one could do true hw isolation for containers.
[13:34] <Soni> wait, how do you download ubuntu server for s390x?
[13:37] <Soni> oh, found it
[13:41] <Soni> so uh, this is the only big-endian ubuntu, yeah?
[13:50] <ahasenack> yes
[14:07] <xnox> Soni:  with current and future releases => yes
[14:07] <xnox> Soni:  for qemu, we have cloud-images which one can just launch in place; just add a cloud config drive, to enable ssh authentication on first boot (or install things you need, etc)
[14:07] <xnox> Soni:  http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/focal/release/
[14:08] <Soni> okay
[14:08] <xnox> Soni:  we also used to have powerpc (big endian 32bit), but it's all about ppc64el these days (64bit, little endian, openpower)
[14:08] <Soni> yeah it seems nobody wants to break (and then fix) little-endian software
[15:03] <Soni> xnox: oh okay so ubuntu server has network
[15:04] <Soni> thanks :3
[15:06] <Soni> (didn't need to run qemu on qemu)
[19:48] <anton> Hello, I tried enabling livepatch on a VPS running Ubuntu 20.04 and it's saying "2020/10/05 19:41:31 error executing enable: cannot enable machine: bad temporary server status 500 (URL: https://livepatch.canonical.com/api/machine-tokens) server response: machine token already exists". It shouldn't be enabled or exist on this machine. Is there something I have to set to get it to work, since
[19:48] <anton> it shouldn't already exist on the machine?
[20:01] <icey> ddstreet: regarding the OpenStack package set, I can propose an update to it in the morning (assuming I find the right repo ;-) ) - I'd appreciate your thoughts on updating it with the list of subscribed packages from https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-openstack/+packagebugs
[20:02] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: ^
[20:03] <icey> ah - wondered who would be better as I saw rafaeldtinoco in some commit logs, thanks rbasak!
[20:03] <rafaeldtinoco> icey: yes, please, let me know
[20:03] <tomreyn> anton: this message sounds to me like this vps has the same machine id as another system which livepatch was already enabled on
[20:03] <tomreyn> anton: maybe you or the host clones it and didn't regenerate the machine id
[20:04] <icey> rafaeldtinoco: easier to email you a list, create a merge proposal, something else entirely?
[20:04] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: are we going for a seed update <-> pkgset automatic sync ?
[20:04] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: based on https://git.launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+git/packageset/tree/pkgset-report.py, looks like openstack is still a manually managed packageset and openstack seeded packages end up in the ubuntu-server packageset?
[20:04] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[20:05] <rbasak> I don't mind how you approach it
[20:05] <rafaeldtinoco> thats where I was going to (and in a meeting now so I might be unresponsive soon)
[20:05] <rafaeldtinoco> icey: lets start with an email to myself ?
[20:05] <rbasak> Between you and icey I guess
[20:05] <rafaeldtinoco> and let me tackle it
[20:05] <icey> rafaeldtinoco: I'm going to bed soon so will also be unresponsive! I'll send you an email tomorrow to start the conversation
[20:05] <rbasak> It might turn out to be tricky because doing it automatically doesn't work so well when there are multiple seeds "claiming" a package and I think there might be quite a few of those in the openstack team managed packages
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> icey: take your time, tomorrow morning we're in a sprint .. can be the afternoon
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> icey: =) thanks a lot!
[20:06] <tomreyn> anton: see also: machine-id man page, section 5
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: yep, we're stuck there right now (in the automation)
[20:06] <icey> rafaeldtinoco: no worries :) it's 22h here right now, so might be a late start in the morning!
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> but its been hard to find time to take this and fix
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> ill have to do a PTO to fix DMB related stuff #)
[20:06] <rbasak> Yeah it's far from trivial
[20:06] <rbasak> Maybe in the short term doing it manually would be easier
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[20:06] <rafaeldtinoco> ill do it manually based in the list for now
[20:07] <rafaeldtinoco> and come up with a way to update it
[20:07] <rafaeldtinoco> (perhaps an email to dmb list or something)
[20:07] <anton> ok
[20:11] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: as long as you're happy that the list all meet the packageset definition "Upstream OpenStack components" - if they don't then they shouldn't be in that packageset.
[20:11] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: and Ill try to cross check with other seeds
[20:11] <rafaeldtinoco> just to make sure we're good in responsibilities
[20:11] <rbasak> +1
[22:39] <znf> Is there a way to find packages that are installed, but not part of any currently enabled repository?
[22:40] <znf> I've just did a 14.04 -> 20.04 upgrade
[22:40] <znf> and I feel like there's SO much stuff left behind
[22:46] <TJ-> znf yes, "apt list --installed | grep ,local"
[22:47] <znf> thanks
[23:35] <Soni> how long does it take to install ubuntu server s390x on qemu? it's been like 8 hours...
[23:39] <znf> uhm
[23:39] <znf> sounds like your qemu is very slow :)
[23:48] <JanC> it's transcompiling s390x code to amd64 code
[23:48] <JanC> I assuma
[23:48] <JanC> *assume
[23:49] <JanC> but 8 hours seems like a lot
[23:50] <JanC> but 8 hours seems like a lot
[23:50] <Soni> uh hm
[23:51] <Soni> wait, how many cores does qemu emulate by default?
[23:51] <Soni> sorry, CPUs
[23:51] <Soni> (actually we have no idea, we don't know anything about mainframes lol)


[00:36] <Guest94531> Hi all. Im a newbee to linux. I have ubuntu running on my desktop and wish to connect to windows vista on my work laptop using terminal services.  When I enter the ip address of my windows machine in ts and click connect TS dissappears off of the screen. I am able to ping my windows pc from the terminal? Any suggestions
[09:48] <ogra> ace_suares, that wiring page is utterly wrong
[09:48] <ogra> ace_suares, (the text and links are, the pics are fine)
[19:24] <Doranwen> I have kind of an unusual request, and I'm not sure if this is where I should go, but someone recommended that I ask here, because maybe someone in the Edubuntu world would have an idea where I should go for help and ideas
[19:25] <Doranwen> I'm starting to work on a set of elementary school curriculum--textbooks, workbooks, related materials, and suchlike--that I want to release eventually under some sort of copyleft-ish license
[19:26] <Doranwen> I've noticed there is NOTHING of that sort anywhere that I can find
[19:26] <Doranwen> everything free as in freedom is at least high school level if not college, and all the elementary curriculum materials out there are very much copyrighted, even the "free" stuff that people host on their sites
[19:27] <Doranwen> it's not truly free, and people charge exorbitant rates for the materials, which really handicaps small schools, ones with smaller budgets, etc.
[19:27] <Doranwen> so I'm hoping eventually to change some of that--in the future my fiancé, who's got one year left of college and is big into networking, wants to help me start a site for collaboration of that sort
[19:28] <Doranwen> but right now I'm just trying to put together some things for the very beginning of school
[19:28] <Doranwen> and ran into a snag
[19:28] <Doranwen> handwriting is one of the essential subjects (it is of great importance in a method of reading instruction I just learned about that's effective for all children)
[19:29] <Doranwen> to teach children handwriting, there has to be examples they can copy, even trace as they begin to learn
[19:29] <Doranwen> for the very beginners, they need to have just curves and lines, to practice grip
[19:29] <Doranwen> and all of that requires fonts
[19:29] <Doranwen> fonts that would be free to use in a project like this
[19:29] <Doranwen> but I can't find ANY
[19:30] <Doranwen> and someone suggested that maybe someone in this project might know who to go to to talk, collaborate, whatever on this?
[19:30] <Doranwen> I feel like I'm over my head here, because this thing is just too big for me to really do on my own, and I don't know how to start letting people know about it, or asking for help to work on it
[19:30] <Doranwen> but it's so needed
[19:30] <HedgeMage> Doranwen: I'm coming in in the middle of the conversation, so pardon me if I missed anything important, but WRT handwriting practice, a font is only sufficient for typeset letterforms, and for printing -- NOT for a cursive style appropriate to handwriting.
[19:31] <Doranwen> true, there are both forms of handwriting
[19:31]  * HedgeMage == handwriting geek and daughter of an elementary school teacher.
[19:31] <Doranwen> and to really teach cursive, one would have to do some rather interesting things
[19:31] <Doranwen> I saw one site that advertised a program to buy that had multiple fonts, some that showed individual letter forms, and some that were designed to make letters match up as much as possible
[19:31] <Doranwen> I don't know how it all worked, 'cause I didn't buy the program
[19:31] <HedgeMage> It wouldn't be *that* hard... we'd need to write an app that can handle different joins correctly
[19:32] <Doranwen> lol, that would definitely have to go to someone besides me
[19:32] <Doranwen> I don't program
[19:32] <HedgeMage> You can learn :)
[19:32] <Doranwen> hehe
[19:32] <Doranwen> my fiancé's not too bad at it
[19:32] <Doranwen> I'm mostly best at curriculum stuff
[19:33] <Doranwen> but he's really better at networking, and programming too long gives him a headache
[19:33] <HedgeMage> It's interesting to me, but my free time is *very* limited right now.  I do have some ideas.  Hold on a sec, I'll brb
[19:33] <Doranwen> k
[19:34] <Doranwen> ah, here's the site that was advertising stuff:  http://www.schoolfonts.com/
[19:34] <HedgeMage> They teach Zaner-Bloser -- that's BAD stuff.
[19:35] <Doranwen> they've also got D'Nealian
[19:35] <Doranwen> for parents to pick
[19:35] <Doranwen> I've had virtually no handwriting instruction at ALL in the sense of how to teach it or the styles or anything at my university
[19:35] <Doranwen> and can't find much online that really discusses the differences or why different styles
[19:36] <HedgeMage> Zaner-Bloser is a modernized form of the Palmer method, which is based on a looped cursive that was designed to work well with movable type printing presses.  While ZB is the most common form taught in the US, it is part of the reason Americans have such terrible handwriting.  Looped cursive is *very* hard to learn, and it is slow to write and encourages RSI (repetitive stress injuries such as carpal tunnel)
[19:36] <HedgeMage> It's nasty stuff
[19:37] <HedgeMage> If I were to work on such a project, I'd want to teach a form of italic print and cursive italic that are designed for *writing*, not printing presses.
[19:37] <Doranwen> ahh, I see
[19:37] <Doranwen> right
[19:37] <Doranwen> I write straight upright print, and do that faster than cursive, so I never really write cursive, lol
[19:37] <Doranwen> but that explains a lot
[19:39] <Doranwen> aha:  http://www.drawyourworld.com/dnealian.html
[19:39] <Doranwen> there's the one I wanted to see
[19:39] <Doranwen> shows all the different handwriting styles
[19:40] <HedgeMage> Doranwen: Try a book called Write Now by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay -- it's for adults, not kids, but it's a quick way to learn proper italic print and cursive italic.  Paired with a good (read: good fountain) pen, I drastically improved my writing in a few weeks.
[19:40] <Doranwen> I probably learned Zaner-Bloser, now that I think of it
[19:40] <Doranwen> oh, Getty-Dubay
[19:41] <Doranwen> have heard of that one
[19:41] <Doranwen> odd, it's not on this page
[19:41] <Doranwen> anyway, I HAVE created one font in my life--but I don't think I did that great a job at it
[19:42] <HedgeMage> I have the tools to do it here -- a Wacom Intuos tablet and a copy of fontforge -- but I really think that until the joins can be addressed in software, that a font alone will only get us printing.
[19:42]  * Doranwen nods
[19:42] <Doranwen> they have to start with printing anyway
[19:43] <Doranwen> I've been learning all I can about synthetic phonics
[19:43] <Doranwen> which is a method of reading instruction that works for every child, because it teaches the alphabet code
[19:43] <Doranwen> and they use handwriting first thing
[19:43] <Doranwen> printing
[19:43]  * HedgeMage nods
[19:43] <Doranwen> because it cements the shape of the letter in the mind
[19:43] <Doranwen> visual and kinesthetic both, in that sense
[19:44] <HedgeMage> Italic print is different from stick-and-ball print (the kind you likely learned) in a few subtle ways, those changes exist primarily to increase the ease and speed of writing, and to make the transition to cursive italic easier.
[19:45]  * Doranwen nods
[19:45] <Doranwen> that makes sense
[19:45] <Doranwen> I'm not sure if that's the best way in this case, because the children won't be reading italic letters first off
[19:46] <Doranwen> and that's half the point of the method is to have them write it, see it, and remember that it stands for a certain sound
[19:46] <Doranwen> so when they go to read, they recognize it instantly
[19:46] <Doranwen> do you think that would work with italic letters?
[19:47] <Doranwen> hmm, actually, the Getty-Dubay version is pretty similiar
[19:47] <Doranwen> I spotted it on the page
[19:47] <Doranwen> not that slanted
[19:47] <Doranwen> so it should work
[19:47] <Doranwen> it's only slightly slanted
[19:48] <Doranwen> sounds like Getty-Dubay would be better, because it's the one italic version I see that does NOT have looped cursive writing
[19:48] <HedgeMage> Right, 5 degree slant
[19:48] <Doranwen> barring some of the Australian versions
[19:49] <Doranwen> so now I just need to find a font for the printed version
[19:49] <HedgeMage> Would you mind if I pm you, Doranwen ?
[19:49] <Doranwen> sure
[19:55] <HedgeMage> there are people there -- let me check what server it's on (I'm on 5 so it's hard to keep track)
[19:56] <HedgeMage> oops, I mis-typed -- it is on Freenode, but it is ##penfiends (two ##)
[20:10] <nubae> hi there
[20:19] <HedgeMage> Hi, nubae
[20:21] <nubae> greetings HedgeMage, quiet in here
[20:24] <HedgeMage> There yep
[20:24] <HedgeMage> oops, -There