[00:00] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:01] <zekAtreides> if i cant get the system running then i will use that as a resort
[00:01] <zekAtreides> but im used to ubuntu
[00:01] <zekAtreides> and am used to that
[00:02] <CloseYetFar> whats the problem?
[00:02] <zekAtreides> the mouse doesnt even move within 10 seconds
[00:03] <CloseYetFar> open a terminal and run the top command
[00:04] <CloseYetFar> top is like taks manager
[00:04] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:04] <UKGent> I just got told off for being 'off topic' , was about to argue and then realised I was in ubuntu and not xubuntu   lol
[00:04] <CloseYetFar> task^
[00:04] <zekAtreides> should i use ctrl alt f2?
[00:04] <zekAtreides> UKGent u were told off for trolling if i remember correctly
[00:04] <zekAtreides> but i might be wrong
[00:04] <UKGent> zek even funnier because it really was not intentional
[00:05] <UKGent> yes you are right
[00:05] <zekAtreides> CloseYetFar: should i use ctrl alt F2? or F1 or something?
[00:06] <CloseYetFar> for what ?
[00:06] <zekAtreides> opening a terminal
[00:06] <CloseYetFar> run the gui, even if it takes a while
[00:06] <CloseYetFar> you can
[00:06] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:06] <CloseYetFar> I would just open a term in the gui
[00:06] <CloseYetFar> and watch top as I do stuff
[00:07] <zekAtreides> is there a shortcut to open the terminal by default or to run an app?
[00:07] <UKGent> my tail is firmly between my legs...   I have been having trouble with my xfce Desktop - Panels kept disappearing but I seem to have sorted it out now.
[00:08] <CloseYetFar> i think if you right click on the desktop there is a short cut there
[00:08] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:08] <zekAtreides> ill try that once it loads
[00:08] <zekAtreides> it is taking a while to switch from F2 to F7
[00:08] <CloseYetFar> or click the mouse on the tool bar
[00:08] <CloseYetFar> your laptop is 700 mhz?
[00:09] <zekAtreides> yeah
[00:09] <zekAtreides> ibm thinkpad a20m
[00:09] <CloseYetFar> that should be fine
[00:09] <zekAtreides> 128mb ram
[00:09] <CloseYetFar> hmm thats kind of low
[00:09] <zekAtreides> i know
[00:09] <CloseYetFar> it may be constantly swaping
[00:09] <zekAtreides> would i be better off with debian?
[00:10] <zekAtreides> i might just go ahead and install that
[00:10] <CloseYetFar> is the hard drive light on constantly
[00:10] <zekAtreides> pretty much
[00:10] <zekAtreides> i used to have an older version of xubuntu running and that worked out ok
[00:10] <zekAtreides> actually let me check and make sure both ram sticks are in ok
[00:11] <CloseYetFar> you can use the free command
[00:11] <zekAtreides> cause i took them out and put them back in and i thought i had 256 but i wasnt sure
[00:14] <CloseYetFar> i would at least figure out the exact problem be fore you start doing reinstalls
[00:17] <zekAtreides> yeah
[00:17] <zekAtreides> people in another forum thought that 128 might be a little weak for xubuntu
[00:18] <CloseYetFar> Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but 256 MB RAM is strongly recommended
[00:18] <zekAtreides> yeah
[00:18] <CloseYetFar> got that from wikipedia
[00:18] <zekAtreides> thanks for ur help]
[00:19] <CloseYetFar> np
[00:19] <zekAtreides> i think its just too weak
[00:19] <zekAtreides> so im going to try pure debian
[00:19] <CloseYetFar> can you get more ram for it
[00:19] <zekAtreides> from a net install
[00:19] <CloseYetFar> yea
[00:19] <zekAtreides> i might be able too but its just for programming a robot for a college class project
[00:19] <zekAtreides> basically its usefull because it has a RS232 serial port
[00:20] <CloseYetFar> ohh
[00:20] <UKGent> To solve my problems with disappearing panels, I started up a Terminal and typed in xfce4-panel. The panels then duly appeared but if you close the terminal window they disappear again. I have sorted our the panel problem now but I am curious. When you type that in, does it activate a procedure that just keeps running or what?
[00:20] <CloseYetFar> in that case install debian with no gui
[00:20] <zekAtreides> i might actually do that
[00:20] <CloseYetFar> then do apt-get install fluxbox
[00:20] <zekAtreides> im not sure yet
[00:20] <zekAtreides> because i am not a pro with cmd line
[00:20] <CloseYetFar> fluxbox is faster then xfce4
[00:21] <zekAtreides> but yeah
[00:21] <zekAtreides> ill try fluxbox
[00:21] <CloseYetFar> but fluxbox is a very minimal gui
[00:21] <CloseYetFar> check google images to see what it looks like
[00:21] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:21] <zekAtreides> is it the dsl gui?
[00:22] <CloseYetFar> i think dsl uses fluxbox but theres is set up differently
[00:22] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:22] <zekAtreides> have u ever heard of lxde?
[00:22] <CloseYetFar> nope lol
[00:22] <zekAtreides> hm its an option for my debian install
[00:23] <CloseYetFar> thats cool, but fluxbox will still be faster
[00:24] <zekAtreides> yeah
[00:24] <zekAtreides> ill have to install that after
[00:24] <zekAtreides> the graphical user install interface is flying though
[00:24] <zekAtreides> me gusta
[00:25] <zekAtreides> why thats installing i did have another question
[00:25] <zekAtreides> wait
[00:25] <zekAtreides> sorry
[00:25] <zekAtreides> i have to get off so i can do the net install
[00:25] <zekAtreides> lol
[00:25] <CloseYetFar> ok lol
[00:25] <zekAtreides> yea
[00:25] <zekAtreides> thanks for all ur help
[00:25] <CloseYetFar> no problem
[00:31] <afallenhope> what's the beta's chan?
[00:34] <afallenhope> anyone?
[00:34] <UKGent> lol
[00:54] <zekAtreides> CloseYetFar: i installed a cmd line
[00:54] <zekAtreides> but im having trouble installing anything
[00:55] <CloseYetFar> do you want to install fluxbox?
[00:55] <zekAtreides> yeah
[00:56] <CloseYetFar> do "apt-get install fluxbox fluxconf"
[00:56] <zekAtreides> it said E: Couldnt find package fluxbox
[00:57] <zekAtreides> i opened up my sources.list
[00:57] <zekAtreides> and i have lenny/updates
[00:59] <CloseYetFar> do "apt-get update"
[00:59] <CloseYetFar> then try again
[00:59] <zekAtreides> ok
[00:59] <zekAtreides> ill need to get offline
[00:59] <zekAtreides> ill be back i a few minutes
[00:59] <CloseYetFar> yea the laptop needs to be online
[01:13] <zek> its almost like im not getting online
[01:13] <zek> im at a university
[01:13] <zek> when i ping google it pings through a purdue server or something
[01:13] <forces> do u use a proxy?
[01:14] <zek> i dont know
[01:14] <zek> i didnt think so
[01:14] <zek> but i cant run apt-get update
[01:15] <forces> maybe you need to configure a proxy
[01:15] <zek> how would i find out how to do that
[01:15] <forces> ask in your university
[01:16] <forces> my university use a proxy
[01:16] <zek> though when i plug the same connection into my vista machine it works
[01:16] <zek> is there a way of seeing the settings vista is using
[01:16] <zek> (and it works just fine on my dual boot ubuntu / vista)
[01:18] <zek> forces: does it have anything to do with connection-specific DNS Suffix?
[01:19] <zek> forces: in my connection settings in firefox i have no proxy selected
[01:19] <zek> does that mean i dont have a proxy?
[01:20] <forces> does not have configure a proxy
[01:20] <forces> can you surf in internet?
[01:20] <zek> on my pc
[01:20] <zek> not the laptop im installing debian to
[01:21] <zek> i can ping google.com
[01:21] <zek> but it goes through purdue server i think
[01:25] <zekAtreides> forces: it changed my nick,  i dont think i have my apt sources correct
[01:29] <forces> so.. edit and correct
[01:44] <owen1> what jvm should i use? when start eclipse I get a warning about GCJ (on ubuntu).
[02:09] <Dante123> hi all, having a devil of a time getting ubuntu to give me all of the resolutions that this sony vaio fx120 laptop (pIII) is capable of doing.  Any suggestions?
[02:10] <Cerrdor> anyone know a remote admin tool for ubuntu
[02:11] <Cerrdor> to admin and view files
[02:45] <ubuntu384> Good evening. Can anyone tell me how to get Xubuntu 8.4/8.10 to mount Fat32 IDE partitions? Using it in Live CD mode, it only recognizes USB drives, not IDE
[02:47] <ubuntu384> anyone awake?
[02:52] <ubuntu384> Oh well... some other time then
[03:02] <BigMoopies> How do I view the network in xubuntu ?
[03:03] <BigMoopies> smb:// , etc
[03:09] <lg11> Where is the pictures folder located?
[03:19] <lg11> My screen saver never starts under xubuntu evern though i told it to
[03:28] <SML1226> If you use a VM what client do you use?
[03:31] <BigMoopies> it appears that Thunar doesn't come with a network browser by default ?
[03:32] <SML1226> no thunar doesn't and most i tried didn't only konqueror did
[03:32] <BigMoopies> So I need to install a special non-XFCE program to view my home network ?
[03:32] <BigMoopies> gesh
[03:33] <BigMoopies> what does GNOME use ?
[03:33] <BigMoopies> I still have ubuntu desktop installed
[03:34] <SML1226> I'm not sure about that and gnome uses nautilus
[03:34] <BigMoopies> nautulius or something ?
[03:34] <SML1226> yep exactly
[03:34] <BigMoopies> yeah, that works
[03:34] <BigMoopies> crazy
[03:35] <SML1226> kde uses konqueror or dolphin and I personally like dolphin better but konq has web browser and network management built in
[03:36] <BigMoopies> I can't stand KDE
[03:36] <BigMoopies> or full blow
[03:36] <SML1226> do you or anybody you know use a VM in linux?
[03:36] <BigMoopies> blown
[03:36] <BigMoopies> Virtualbox
[03:36] <SML1226> i don't like how kde runs but kde4 is beautiful
[03:37] <SML1226> i like how gnome and xfce work much better
[03:37] <BigMoopies> GNOME didn't run all that much better, specially for running FireFox
[03:38] <BigMoopies> It seems that FireFox can browse the network
[03:38] <SML1226> thanks for the vm info. I used MS's virtual thing inside windows but that only supports windows so no linux in that :(
[03:38] <BigMoopies> if I don't wanna use nautilius
[03:39] <SML1226> I never really used gnome for extended periods of time just as rescue. I used xfce all the time though
[03:40] <BigMoopies> yes, I'm thinking about removing the ubuntu desktop
[03:40] <BigMoopies> brb
[03:40] <SML1226> well konq won't work in gnome. I guess you could enable kde services in xfce and install konq then
[03:55] <lg11> how can I add a program to run on start up?
[03:57] <SML1226> anybody try windows 7 in a vm? I don't really wanna install a beta from MS
[03:57] <lg11> it works just not very well
[03:57] <lg11> it only runs well in ms vm
[03:59] <SML1226> dang. I can't do that the way I want then. I guess I can run an XP/Xubu dual-boot with 7 in a vm on XP
[04:00] <lg11> You can try it will boot
[04:00] <lg11> it just wont be happy
[04:00] <SML1226> anybody use a pc to run osx86? In a VM or for real?
[04:02] <SML1226> I can't afford a mac so I wanna do this a little. I guess I might have to try it. I don't wanna buy the laptop and have it not work though.
[04:02] <lg11> I havent done it but there are instrcutions available
[04:02] <lg11> hackintosh
[04:04] <SML1226> yeah I am looking at a guys compaq and it isn't listed in any compatability list but there isn't much in the lists
[04:07] <SML1226> this is true OSX 10.5 but it is on a pc. Apple gave out the files to do it themselves.
[04:13] <lg11> shouldnt be much on this list
[04:13] <lg11> Mac only write driver for hardware they plan to use
[04:14] <lg11> Dont suppose you know how to make xubuntu login to my wifi automagically upon boot
[04:15] <SML1226> yeah but there are actually a lot of things on there. There are only a couple of compaqs there
[04:15] <SML1226> and about the wifi mine does connect automatically and i didn't do anything
[04:15] <lg11> mine asks for a keyring pw first
[04:16] <SML1226> well my ps3 does
[04:16] <SML1226> when i typed in the password the 1st time it asked to remember and i said yes and it worked
[04:17] <SML1226> then again i usually had ethernet in and wifi on but wireless was blinking so i think it was wifi
[04:19] <Mood> !ati
[04:20] <SML1226> mood: why'd you bring up video cards? You need help on it or you trying to help somebody else?
[04:21] <Mood> SML1226: video card reference was for me. apologies for appearing to be part of the thread
[04:23] <lg11> video cards a problem in linux? ! I have never heard of such a thing!
[04:24] <lg11> [/sarcasm]
[04:25] <SML1226> mood: ok just wondering. thanks for the reply
[04:26] <SML1226> lg11: you figure out anything with wifi? is it only on logon or constant? my ps3 started asking me constantly and never stopped. it said couldnt connect but when I opened firefox it worked fine
[04:46] <lg11> I installed wicd
[04:47] <lg11> worked fine after that
[04:53] <zekAtreides> CloseYetFar: i got it working thanks
[05:03] <CloseYetFar> ohh yea
[05:03] <CloseYetFar> cool
[05:23] <owen1> I got an annoying popup whenever i login that tells me "Your session only lasted less than 10 seconds..." when i view details (~/.xsession-errors) i see stuff like this: "/usr/bin/xmodmap:  unable to open file '/usr/share/apps/kxkb/ubuntu.xmodmap' for reading"
[05:24] <owen1> and this: "** (xfce-mcs-manager:5974): WARNING **: display_plugin: Unable to configure display resolution"
[06:41] <BigMoopies> Is it possible to install something like microsoft silverlight ?
[06:43] <BigMoopies> never mind , I found "moon light".
[06:43] <BigMoopies> yet still doesn't work, oh well
[06:56] <forces> :P
[07:08] <rocko> is this true
 do you have to accept and keep cookies for the settings to stay there DIzzIEe ?
 no
 why is it
 that when I go back to Global storage settings
 wtf... "+l 420" ?
[07:08] <rocko> * sether removes user limit
 it has the "allow third-party flash content..."  I have no idea
[07:15] <zoredache> btw, did you have a real question/problem?  It might be better to start with your actual problem instead of posting half a conversation about a settings manager (whatever that is)
[07:43] <rocko> nevermind zoredache
[07:43] <rocko> I found out what it was
[07:43] <zoredache_> k
[07:43] <rocko> it was because I did not have the settings .sol file protected with the betterprivacy addon
[07:44] <rocko> so it  did not save the information to that file
[07:44] <zoredache_> I see
[07:44] <rocko> now it does
[07:44] <rocko> since I have selected it to be protected
[07:44] <rocko> I do not trust adobe so I will still used that addon just in case I some how still get flash cookies
[07:45] <zoredache> why use flash at all?
[07:45] <rocko> why do you use?
[07:46] <rocko> I know you can watch them with out flash
[07:46] <rocko> when you download them
[07:46] <rocko> but I do not trust download helper
[07:46] <rocko> and they are getting more tricker and tricker with downloading them by hand
[07:46] <zoredache> I don't use flash except on a few sites like youtube, amazon, and pandora
[07:47] <rocko> I see
[07:47] <rocko> do you use download helper /
[07:47] <zoredache> for what?
[07:47] <rocko> to download flash videos
[07:47] <rocko> from sites
[07:47] <zoredache> most of what I want is from youtube, and miro or youtube-dl does just fine
[07:48] <rocko> I do not like miro
[07:48] <zoredache> either that or I simply look at the youtube api directly
[07:48] <rocko> it takes up way to many resources
[07:48] <zoredache> you don't have to use it as the player...
[07:48] <rocko> how do you do that?
[07:48] <rocko> I use more than just youtube though
[07:52] <CloseYetFar> why are you guys worried about flash player so much
[07:52] <zoredache> I am not worried about it at all...  I think rocko is being paranoid for some odd reason
[07:52] <rocko> um flash player can track you
[07:52] <TheSheep> CloseYetFar: it has notorious problems that we can't fix
[07:52] <zoredache> ffs, everything on the web trakcs you
[07:52] <rocko> also its cookies are not delete by  web browsers
[07:53] <zoredache> if you don't want to be tracked turn of the computer
[07:53] <CloseYetFar> you no what can track you a million times better then flash player, google!!
[07:53] <rocko> Unfortunately, few consumers are aware of where Flash cookies are stored or how to control their use. Normal web cookies can be managed via the preferences dialog of most web browsers, but no similar utility is included for these Flash cookies. It is possible for Flash cookies to remain on user's computer indefinitely, as there is no mechanism to set an expiration date on Flash cookies.
[07:53] <rocko> http://epic.org/privacy/cookies/flash.html
[07:54] <TheSheep> rocko: can we help you with any problems with xubuntu?
[07:54] <CloseYetFar> there are risks in installing anything from binary
[07:56] <CloseYetFar> rocko if you that worries i would recommend switching to openBSD, its much safer then ubuntu
[07:56] <CloseYetFar> opps ^ if that worries you
[07:57] <TheSheep> CloseYetFar: safer in what way?
[07:57] <rocko> how is openbsd safer?
[07:57] <rocko> just because it says so
[07:57] <rocko> does not mean it is
[07:57] <rocko> just about every software says stuff like that
[07:57] <CloseYetFar> well its designed from the ground up to be the most secure out of the box OS
[07:57] <rocko> for example
[07:57] <rocko> firefox
[07:58] <rocko> yes I know about openbsd
[07:58] <TheSheep> !enter | rocko
[07:59] <rocko> why
[07:59] <CloseYetFar> now openBSD is no where near as user friendly or easy to use, bu thats the trade off
[07:59] <rocko> does it matter
[07:59] <zoredache> rocko: not becuase 'they' say so, but because lots of indepentant people have reviewed it and said so
[07:59] <rocko> I see
[07:59] <rocko> I know that about openbsd
[08:00] <rocko> well the  first statement before zoredache
[08:00] <CloseYetFar> or gentoo and build your system from the ground up
[08:00] <CloseYetFar> that takes a while
[08:00] <rocko> I do not like gentoo that much
[08:00] <rocko> I recommend using openbsd if you use a laptop
[08:00] <rocko> and want to try one of the bsds out
[08:01] <CloseYetFar> start with freebsd, its the easyest
[08:01] <rocko> most development of openbsd is done on laptops so that is probably way
[08:01] <rocko> um
[08:01] <TheSheep> guys, this is a support channel, really
[08:01] <rocko> freebsd did not work on my laptop
[08:01] <rocko> the only bsd that worked on my laptop was openbsd
[08:02] <CloseYetFar> its funny that about half of the questions in here have nothing to do with Xubuntu
[08:02] <rocko> um you can use flash with xubuntu
[08:02] <TheSheep> people lurk here to help others out, not to read four screenfuls of ranting in the scrollback
[08:02] <rocko> so how is that unrelated ?
[08:03] <n2diy> how do I enable remote viewer?
[08:03] <zoredache> because you aren't asking about how to use flash on xubuntu... you are talking cookies
[08:03] <rocko> um
[08:03] <zoredache> !x11vnc
[08:03] <rocko> it has to do with using flash on xubuntu
[08:03] <CloseYetFar> remote desktop viewer?
[08:03] <TheSheep> n2diy: you want to log in from your xubuntu, or into it?
[08:03] <rocko> how is it different
[08:04] <TheSheep> rocko: please continue at #xubuntu-offtopic
[08:04] <rocko> no ones there
[08:04] <CloseYetFar> lol
[08:04] <rocko> practically
[08:05] <TheSheep> rocko: so? you two can still talk there
[08:05] <rocko> I see
[08:05] <n2diy> TheSheep: I have this Xubuntu box, and downstairs, I have a Ubuntu box. I can view the Ubuntu box down stairs, but this box refuses to let the box dowsstairs view this one.
[08:05] <rocko> we all know how to use ignore but I am going to stop my conversation here now
[08:05] <rocko> okay
[08:05] <rocko> good day
[08:06] <CloseYetFar> i use xtightvncviewer
[08:06] <TheSheep> n2diy: you need to install and start the vnc server, it's not enabled by default
[08:06] <TheSheep> rocko: see you
[08:06] <zoredache> n2diy: you would want to install something like x11vnc
[08:06] <TheSheep> !vnc
[08:06] <rocko> what you mean by that TheSheep ?
[08:06] <TheSheep> hmm... we don't have a factoid, because it's installed by default on ubuntu
[08:06] <CloseYetFar> then tightvncserver on the machine you wish to access remotly
[08:07] <n2diy> TheSheep: ok, I've done that. On Ubuntu you can go to a menu and enable remote viewer, I can't find that here, can it be done on the CLI?
[08:08] <TheSheep> n2diy: try enabling it in system->services
[08:08] <n2diy> ok
[08:09] <n2diy> TheSheep: no options there for Remote Viewer?
[08:10] <TheSheep> n2diy: you can install the gui thingy from ubuntu, but I'm not sure how it's called
[08:11] <n2diy> TheSheep: ok, I've installed a client and server, and hoped that was all I needed, but I guess I need to dig deeper?
[08:11] <TheSheep> n2diy: not sure, the server should be configured out of the box, you just start it
[08:13] <CloseYetFar> i would look in /etc/init.d
[08:13] <CloseYetFar> for the vnc server, then do ps aux to see if its running
[08:13] <n2diy> TheSheep: yes, I guess I need to run it from the cli? I was hoping it would give me a menu option?
[08:15] <n2diy> TheSheep: I just ran vncviewer, without any connect info, and now it wants to know what server to connect to. Would that be the remote box, which I can connect to anyway?
[08:15] <TheSheep> yes
[08:15] <CloseYetFar> feed it ip:1
[08:16] <CloseYetFar> ip is the ip of the remote box
[08:17] <n2diy> TheSheep: , CloseYetFar, ok, but that isn't the problem, this box can view the other box, but this box won't let the other box view it.
[08:18] <CloseYetFar> does "this box" have a vnc server running?
[08:19] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: yes
[08:20] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: yes, I think, it is installed, but I'm not sure it is running?
[08:20] <CloseYetFar> if you know the name of it run "ps aux" in the term and see if its listed
[08:22] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: not sure of its name, will ps aux accept wildcards?
[08:23] <CloseYetFar> well see if you can find it in /etc/init.d then do "/etc/init.d/servicename start"
[08:24] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: roger that.
[08:24] <CloseYetFar> /etc/init.d is where all your services are stored
[08:28] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: I can't get into init.d, the system keeps dumping me to init.ds? I can see init.d listed under /etc, and I can't see any init.ds,I'm guessing I should be sudo for this?
[08:30] <CloseYetFar> hmm its listed but you cant get in?
[08:31] <CloseYetFar> what does it say when you do "cd /etc/init.d"
[08:32] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: this is getting strange, I can't even get into /etc, it is being listed as /etcs after I do the cd /etc command? WTF is going on?
[08:33] <CloseYetFar> I think thats just the prompt or something
[08:33] <CloseYetFar> use "pwd" to check your current dir
[08:34] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: ok, yes, my prompt could be afu. Let me play somemore.
[08:34] <CloseYetFar> lol
[08:44] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: ok, no reference to vnc or xvnc in /etc/init.d. I'll have to do some more homework. And the afu command prompt isn't a joke. Back in the DOS days, I used to entertain myself setting up my friends computers so there text was the same color as there backround, adding undesirable text to ther command prompt etc.. So this maybe paybacks?
[08:45] <CloseYetFar> lol ok good luck
[08:47] <n2diy> CloseYetFar: thanks, same to you.
[08:47] <CloseYetFar> np
[09:52] <User806> hello
[09:53] <User806> i need a link to the xubuntu desktop guide
[09:53] <User806> the official link seems to be down
[09:53] <User806> https://help.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
[09:54] <knome> what is your problem?
[09:54] <User806> read above
[09:54] <User806> i can't open the link to the dektop guide
[09:55] <knome> do you need it for reference, or do you need something specific from the guide?
[09:55] <User806> i just would like to read it
[09:55] <knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/xubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
[09:55] <knome> this is the latest xubuntu guide this far.
[09:56] <User806> oh thank you very much
[09:56] <knome> we've done a massive effort to better documentation for jaunty
[10:38] <tavasti> Is there some reference manual for xfce?
[10:38] <tavasti> I'd like to configure settings for several users with script
[10:39] <tavasti> for example, adding some launch buttons to panels, etc
[13:42] <verme> hello
[13:42] <verme> anybody could test an application in the current version of xubuntu?
[13:43] <Slonkie> if it wont mess my system up, sure.
[13:43] <verme> the code and the binary is in aras.sf.net
[13:44] <verme> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218248
[13:44] <verme> it is a media player
[13:49] <verme> Slonkie could you run it?
[13:50] <Slonkie> site doesn't load
[13:51] <verme> hum
[13:54] <verme> i can send you the files
[13:57] <Slonkie> aras-1.8 ?
[13:57] <Slonkie> is that the one?
[13:59] <Slonkie> verme, is it aras-1.8?
[14:02] <verme> yes
[14:04] <verme> ^^
[14:04] <Slonkie> Doesn't work
[14:04] <verme> did you run ARAS-Player-1.8/bin/aras.sh?
[14:04] <Slonkie> nope i followed the install manual.
[14:05] <Slonkie> src and ran that gcc command
[14:05] <verme> maybe you need the development libraries in order to build it
[14:05] <verme> nevertheless, the binaries are included
[14:06] <verme> you can run the binary directly
[14:13] <erasmo> sorry
[14:13] <verme-2> i'm back
[14:15] <verme-2> Slonkie, have you run it?
[15:16] <hiena> 400mhz and 256ram will it run or walk?
[15:16] <LinusTorvalds> no problem
[15:17] <LinusTorvalds> i'ts like a train with those specs :)
[15:17] <hiena> lol
[15:17] <hiena> no really
[15:17] <hiena> can i watch youtube??
[15:17] <Ruadh> Is it possible to install a MS Windows programme in xbuntu?
[15:17] <hiena> i dont think so
[15:17] <LinusTorvalds> yes, no problem hiena
[15:17] <hiena> Ruadh
[15:17] <hiena> yes
[15:17] <hiena> !wine
[15:18] <Ruadh> hiena, thanks
[15:18] <hiena> Ruadh wich version are you running and i will fidn the the wine you need
[15:19] <hiena> or just sudo apt-get update
[15:19] <hiena> sudo apt-get install wine
[15:19] <hiena> but i thik you will install lil bit old version :(
[15:19] <Ruadh> hiena, I'm running xubuntu 8.10 and would like to install Photoshop Elements 5.0
[15:20] <Ruadh> I now have wine installed
[15:20] <hiena> dunno if it works
[15:21] <hiena> i know you can install CS
[15:21] <hiena> but elemets dunno
[15:21] <hiena> LinusTorvalds tell does xfce its smaller than lxde?
[15:22] <LinusTorvalds> i think xfce is smaller
[15:23] <Ruadh> That CS version is pretty old and Adobe expects us to stump up money for it
[15:23] <hiena> hmm Ruadh
[15:23] <hiena> !info gimp
[15:23] <hiena> its not PS but its damn good
[15:23] <hiena> :)
[15:24] <hiena> Ruadh http://appdb.winehq.org/
[15:24] <Ruadh> Thank you hiena
[15:25] <LinusTorvalds> yes i can recommend gimp also
[15:25] <LinusTorvalds> but if you want photoshop, appdb.winehq.org says it works
[15:26] <hiena> BUT......................
[15:26] <hiena> http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks
[15:26] <hiena> with this
[15:26] <hiena> just like screen shots i saw a screen shots from E17 and i said wow installed it rien its not like in the pics :(
[15:29] <TheSheep> hiena: there are themes...
[15:30] <hiena> i know
[15:30] <hiena> but when u installed on my ubuntu was just a desktop with nothing on it
[15:30] <hiena> no applications no system TERMINAL
[15:30] <hiena> nothing just blanck desktop
[15:31] <TheSheep> well, gnome comes preconfigured, e17 you have to configure yourself
[15:31] <TheSheep> that's why it's not installedb y default
[15:35] <LinusTorvalds> does upgrading Xubuntu go the same way as upgrading Ubuntu (with the alternate CD)? old laptop has no internet :(
[15:35] <TheSheep> yes
[15:35] <LinusTorvalds> ok thanks :)
[15:37] <rocko> TheSheep is the MAN
[15:37] <rocko> TheSheep is the xubuntu super dude man :D
[15:38] <LinusTorvalds> did i miss something?
[15:39] <TheSheep> yeah, you guys keep missing out because you're not on #xubuntu-offtopic ;)
[15:43] <rocko> does xubuntu has sucidical aid software?
[15:43] <hiena> 9.04
[15:43] <hiena> yes
[15:43] <hiena> there is a pc cleaner or smt like that
[15:44] <hiena> it fixes programs dunno
[15:44] <rocko> I see
[15:44] <hiena> but wait 24 days more
[15:44] <hiena> :D
[15:44] <hiena> now its beta
[15:45] <TheSheep> emacs has a psychotherapist...
[15:45] <tavasti> M-x doctor
[15:45] <rocko> for real?
[15:47] <tavasti> or from command line 'xemacs -f doctor'
[15:47] <tavasti> most likely with normal emacs same thing
[15:53] <TheSheep> it's also in menu, under 'help'
[16:09] <J_Litewski> wb
[16:14] <rocko> what is the easiest programming language in the world?
[16:15] <J_Litewski> depends
[16:17] <J_Litewski> are you looking for OOP?
[16:18] <rocko> someone said something about that before
[16:18] <rocko> is that easy ?
[16:18] <J_Litewski> well, OOP is a style of coding
[16:19] <J_Litewski> it's where you call classes and junk
[16:19] <J_Litewski> personally, i hate it
[16:19] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: why don't you join us at #xubuntu-offtopic? :)
[16:29] <slow-motion> hi
[16:29] <Slonkie> ??hi
[16:29] <J_Litewski> hislow-motion
[16:42] <gorgut> is there a single package with all the LAMP server ingredients in it?
[16:44] <tavasti> gorgut, if you run 'tasksel' there you can select LAMP server
[16:45] <soulphox> Hello, I'm trying to get my wireless card working in 8.04.
[16:49] <Slonkie> What's the name of your wireless card, soulphox?
[16:50] <soulphox> It's a Broadcom BCM4306 802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller, integrated into a Compaq Presario 2100.
[16:51] <Slonkie> broadcom is a real bitch
[16:52] <Slonkie> sorry but i can't help you with that, but stick around, someone might be capable of helping.
[16:52] <genii> Especially those 43xx series
[16:53] <Slonkie> ye had the same in my HP laptop. i gave up and threw it out :P
[16:54] <soulphox> Ouch...
[16:54] <Slonkie> There might be a better solution by now than when i tried, it's about a year ago :)
[16:55] <soulphox> I tried the troubleshooting page, I can't even find "System → Preferences → Hardware Information;" my System menu has neither Preferences nor Hardware Info.  Step 1 loses me... :-\
[17:11] <rocko> they have made free software for broadcom wifi cards now
[17:11] <rocko> meaning open source
[17:11] <rocko> free as in FREEDOM
[17:15] <zoredache> who is 'they'?
[17:16] <cody-somerville> broadcom did
[17:16] <soulphox> I found it on Broadcom's page, but they don't seem to support the 4306 I have...
[17:17] <genii> Theres always ndiswrapper
[17:19] <soulphox> I tried NDISWrapper, I thought I had it set up correctly but it still didn't work for me.
[17:45] <Mood> Is it possible that my linux box changes/corrupts mp3 files when I download using Nicotine+?
[17:48] <moodog> evening :)
[17:49] <cody-somerville> Mood, doubtful
[17:50] <Mood> What's bizarre is that I can play mp3 files downloaded from my Mac OS X. But the very same mp3 file downloaded on my Xubuntu 8.10 (w/ mp3 codec) on Audacious cannot be played. I can't even play the mp3 files downloaded from linux on my Mac OS X
[17:51] <Mood> so something is either screwed with my Nictotine+, or Xubuntu corrupts the mp3 files somehow
[17:51] <zoredache> So download something using a different tool
[17:52] <Mood> but i <3 nicotine+ :-(
[17:52] <zoredache> or download it on your osx, and then transfer it to linux
[17:52] <zoredache> Mood: to test...
[17:53] <Mood> zoredache: i tried downloading from osx then playing it on linux: it works. but downloading from linux cannot play in osx
[17:53] <Mood> it's very strange...
[17:53] <zoredache> check the md5 sums and see if you have the same file perhaps?
[17:57] <Mood> what would be the right way of doing so? download file from linux. download file from osx. then run md5 sums on both to see if hash is same?
[17:58] <zoredache> yes, that would prove that you are getting different files...
[17:58] <zoredache> or that nicotine on linux is somehow breaking things
[17:59] <Mood> then how would i see the differences? hex editor? can i use xdiff? or do you know of an mp3 integrity checker?
[18:00] <zoredache> not sure...
[18:01] <zoredache> I guess you could try running a diff or something between the two
[18:22] <J_Litewski> how can i check to see if apport is running?
[18:22] <Slonkie> Anyone's got a problem with wine not shutting apps down when you close them?
[18:23] <Slonkie> and maybe a solution?
[18:23]  * TheSheep kills the freaks
[18:23] <TheSheep> those are windows apps, you can't expect them to behave
[18:23] <J_Litewski> not sure Slonkie, see if someone in #wine knows about it
[18:24] <Slonkie> Well there are no good dictionaries for linux TheSheep  :(
[18:24] <Slonkie> Thanks, J_Litewski
[18:24] <J_Litewski> that is true
[18:24] <J_Litewski> i dont use a dictonary, just aspell
[18:25] <TheSheep> Slonkie: I'm pretty happy with dict and wordnet
[18:25] <Slonkie> well they aren't the kind of dictionaries im using :)
[18:26] <J_Litewski> i was so happy yesterday, i reduced bloat by about %15
[18:27] <J_Litewski> then i upgrade and get it all back... :(\
[18:33] <Mood> hmm... md5sums differ on osx mp3 and linux mp3... maybe the mp3 files from linux/nicotine+ are getting corrupt due to NFS
[18:38] <Dante123> hi all, I have ubuntu installed on a sony vaio laptop fx120.  When I go to shut it down, the orange bar goes down until it is gone but the pc never completely turns off.  I have acpi=off in boot parameters (cause that was the only way I could get the livecd to load up).  Any suggestions?
[18:38] <TheSheep> Dante123: find another way to make it load up
[18:39] <TheSheep> Dante123: acpi=off means no power management, so it can't shotdown on itself
[18:39] <TheSheep> Dante123: I'd check the forums/google for other options
[18:40] <Mood> zoredache: bingo. mp3 file corruption on xubuntu+nicotine due to NFS... i guess the binary bits are different w/ and w/o NFS... md5sum helped. thanks zoredache
[18:42] <J_Litewski> Mood, file a bug report about that, i think that needs to be fixed
[18:42] <Mood> J_Litewski: yeah and it's nowhere to be found on google searches
[18:43] <J_Litewski> this is weird, i'm getting a lot of HDD chatter
[18:44] <Dante123> TheSheep i read a suggestion to put "apm=off no-hlt" so I am trying that
[18:45] <J_Litewski> i just uninstalled gPHPedit and the HDD light was on for about 10 minutes
[18:45] <J_Litewski> and xubuntu was laggy as hell
[18:45] <J_Litewski> it's running finw now
[18:47] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: next time check with top
[18:48] <J_Litewski> top?
[18:50] <J_Litewski> TheSheep, what's top?
[18:50] <TheSheep> a command
[18:50] <TheSheep> or use the system->system monitor
[18:51] <J_Litewski> oh
[18:51] <J_Litewski> :P
[18:53] <J_Litewski> TheSheep, can you control ACPI devices?
[18:54] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: me? no
[18:55] <J_Litewski> i mean, is it possible?
[18:58] <TheSheep> it happens, no? but don't ask me how
[18:58] <TheSheep> probably with hal
[19:19] <UKGent> I feel SO coooool  (even though I am not really just a newbie) because I have found out how to run emacs in the terminal window lol
[19:24] <TheSheep> by typing 'emacs'?
[20:09] <verme> hi
[20:13] <UKGent> no - by typing emacs -nw  even more exciting !
[20:14] <SiDi> Hello
[20:14] <UKGent> on xubuntu of course - so as not to be 'off topic'  ...
[20:14] <UKGent> Hi
[20:15]  * SiDi read the word "emacs" and is now scared.
[20:16] <UKGent> lol - the power of that word - don't worry - I am a rank beginner who is just taking 'baby steps' towards the Terminal , emacs, making sure my Xfce Panels do not disappear etc
[20:20] <UKGent> I always seem to have this effect on people...
[20:20] <UKGent> when on xubuntu
[20:26] <SiDi> emacs scares me :p
[20:26] <SiDi> i cant manage to use it
[20:28] <UKGent> SiDi I want to use it BECAUSE it scares me!  So I am working my way through a Beginners Tutorial. Did not like the built in one but found a free one on the IBM Site which is really good. Just started it.
[20:28] <UKGent> Although I had to register with IBM to download it but what the hell
[20:29] <UKGent> j/ #emacs
[20:29] <UKGent> lol
[20:30] <SiDi> hehe
[20:30] <SiDi> you still cant join channels ? :D
[20:31] <UKGent> and yet I want to use emacs ... I know. I don't know if there is even a channel called that anyway lol
[20:31] <UKGent> Oh there is !
[20:32] <UKGent> when you get the j and the / the right way round - I think I am dyslexic or something
[20:33] <SiDi> maybe...
[20:33] <SiDi> i use to join 12 channels at a time so i'm kinda used to it :P
[20:34] <UKGent> SiDi I think I might have some sort of cognitive defect because I can be quite intelligent but then I make really stupid mistakes and I cannot do even very simple anagrams !
[20:34] <SiDi> Well, that's the case for everyone
[20:34] <SiDi> i sometimes feel so stupid when i cant do something that is quite basic. We humans have a lot of cpu failures :P
[20:36] <UKGent> I think it is - we have a lot of subtle variations in our capabilities - at the 'thread or processes' level - Psychologists should give more attention to this, instead of trying to always measure general abilities IMHO  (yep , way off topic)
[20:43] <UKGent> bfn
[20:46] <SiDi> bfn ?
[21:20] <SiDi> See you
[21:52] <slow-motion> n8
[21:58] <UKGent> Hi - anyone know the Key Combination for opening a Terminal Window?
[21:59] <UKGent> trying to limit using the mouse
[21:59] <TheSheep> UKGent: you can set your own in system->keyboard settings
[22:00] <UKGent> TheSheep right - I am doing well with learning how to write files from buffers in emacs - enjoying it.
[22:01]  * TheSheep likes alt+f1 for terminal
[22:01] <TheSheep> the default 'show help' is not so useful, especially when it's in the menu too
[22:02] <UKGent> point taken - just done that !
[22:03] <TheSheep> the command is xfce4-terminal
[22:04] <johnnymozetti200> hello
[22:05] <UKGent> Ah - like for Panels...   nice - and then Control-Shift Q to Quite the Terminal Window
[22:05]  * TheSheep just presses ctrl+d at the prompt
[22:06] <TheSheep> it's the "end of file" character, closes most command-line applications
[22:06] <UKGent> I can now boot emacs in double quick time - Oh OK   - such a feeling of Power lol
[22:07] <meowImAKitty> Networking problem! I have Xubuntu on my laptop and XpHome on my desktop, they were all working fine, sharing files and such, now all of a sudden I can't connect to the laptop anymore. :S
[22:08] <UKGent> TheSheep ty - I will leave you free to help meowImKitty for a bit !
[22:09] <TheSheep> meowImAKitty: check if samba server is enabled in system->services
[22:14] <UKGent> TheSheep I wonder if meow is checking ?
[22:14] <TheSheep> or connectivity problems
[22:15] <TheSheep> can't help it
[22:15] <UKGent> Probably - in view of what he said the problem was
[22:16] <UKGent> brb Thanks TheSheep
[22:24] <J_Litewski> does xfce have a damage battery notification?
[22:27] <TheSheep> damage battery?
[22:28] <TheSheep> you mean, something like an explosion countdown for dell's laptops? %)
[22:28] <rocko> hahahahhaha
[22:28] <J_Litewski> a damaged battery is a battery that doesn't take a full charge
[22:28] <J_Litewski> and i'm on a Dell >:(
[22:28] <rocko> DUDE  you're gettin
[22:28] <rocko> ah DELL
[22:29] <rocko> DUDE  you're gettin' ah DELL
[22:29] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: all batteries detoriate over time
[22:29] <TheSheep> rocko: calm down
[22:29] <J_Litewski> well, my battery can take only a 35% charge
[22:29] <rocko> remember those stupid advertisements "DUDE  you're gettin' ah DELL" with that one kid that looked like he was smoking weed or something
[22:30] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: letting it go to 0% and the charging full might help a little
[22:31] <J_Litewski> it's already donr that numberous times
[22:31] <J_Litewski> the battery has been half-lifed
[22:31] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: how long does it last?
[22:31] <J_Litewski> about 30 minutes
[22:31] <TheSheep> sounds damaged
[22:32] <J_Litewski> yea
[22:32] <Dante123> hi all, sony vaio fx120 will not turn off when shutting down.  Any ideas?  BTW, acpi=off in boot parameters.  Anything else I should be trying?
[22:32] <TheSheep> but the battery doesn't really have any sensors that would let linux detect it
[22:32] <Dante123> also, this is 8.04
[22:32] <TheSheep> Dante123: acpi=off is the reason
[22:32] <TheSheep> Dante123: didn't I tell you that before?
[22:33] <J_Litewski> checking the current mA against the stored mA and to see if it's below 80% would work
[22:33] <Dante123> TheSheep, okay will take that out, but what should I do for bios (turn of acpi)?
[22:33] <Dante123> or have it turned on???
[22:34] <Dante123> Also, I was never able to get livecd to boot until I put acpi=off in there....so that is why I kept it in boot sequence.  Maybe I do not need it now???
[22:34] <J_Litewski> Dante123, try taking it out
[22:34] <Dante123> Okay, I will take it out.  Report back in 3 minutes.
[22:34] <J_Litewski> if it doesn't boot, just use the liveCD to boot it back up
[22:34] <TheSheep> you can try. if you press esc at the boot screen, a menu with different kernels will pop up. if you press 'e' on any of them, you will be able to edit the boot line. then press 'b' to boot
[22:35] <J_Litewski> that too
[22:35] <TheSheep> you can try different parameters, one that made some of computers work is pci=conf1 for example
[22:35] <TheSheep> this way you don't have to edit the menu.lst file
[22:38] <Dante123>  TheSheep, yeah I have done that before.  I tried the "apm=off no-hlt" but once into xsession the system froze
[22:38] <J_Litewski> how does the dell firmware tools work?
[22:40] <Dante123>  TheSheep and J_Litewski system will not start with "acpi=off" missing from boot parameters.
[22:40] <Dante123> Further suggestions?
[22:41] <J_Litewski> is it on in the BIOS?
[22:41] <Dante123> J_Litewskin off in the bios now, shall I enable it?
[22:41] <Dante123> I think it is off, let me check
[22:44] <J_Litewski> enable it
[22:44] <J_Litewski> then try booting with acpi=on
[22:44] <Dante123> In the bios, there are settings about the cpu (max performance, recommended, disable) no specific enable/disable apic
[22:44] <Dante123> I put it to the recommended setting.
[22:44] <J_Litewski> restore everything to defult
[22:44] <J_Litewski> yea
[22:45] <Dante123> will retry with apic=on
[22:45] <J_Litewski> kk
[22:46] <Dante123> okay, rebooted and with cpu in the recommended (under Power) setting and with it disabled- the system boots into a weird screen- bars of colour or black with some colour here and there....
[22:47] <J_Litewski> does it completely boot?
[22:48] <Dante123> now I am trying with apic=on  (about boot up previously without the acpi=off- I dont know if it fully booted- says starting up....then eventually goes to weird bars and black screen)
[22:49] <J_Litewski> hmmm
[22:49] <Dante123> ONLY way I get a normal boot up is acpi=off
[22:50] <Dante123> With power on cpu set to disabled or recommended.  but TheSheep says acpi=off is why the system wont turn off.    I am not giving up yet or switching to some other linux distro.
[22:55] <J_Litewski> did pressing the power button at that screen turn it off?
[22:56] <Dante123> Yeah, I can turn it off with power button.  So if that is what I have to do so be it....but I would prefer that it turn itself off.
[22:56] <Dante123> And dammit, this should be solveable.
[22:56] <Dante123> Will keep googling
[22:56] <J_Litewski> it might be
[22:57] <J_Litewski> like i said, try a pre-8.04 xubuntu
[22:57] <J_Litewski> that may be nicer to your system
[22:57] <J_Litewski> Dante123, I had to do 7.04 install to get 7.10 to work
[22:58] <J_Litewski> it's sometimes that easy
[23:00]  * J_Litewski sighs
[23:00] <J_Litewski> i need to add yet another repository to my list...
[23:00] <J_Litewski> Damn Dell
[23:08] <J_Litewski> is it possible to manually add a repository?
[23:09] <J_Litewski> since Dell is lame and doesn't recognize my system
[23:09] <zoredache> repositories are configured by updating /etc/apt/sources.list
[23:10] <TheSheep> or through system->software sources
[23:32] <Shooree> any thoughts on what could be the solution to window borders not showing up after updating and a system restart? using compiz and emerald, didnt touch them, just updated and now cant see any window title bars. which means I cant close/move windows
[23:33] <J_Litewski> Shooree, sounds like the window decorations didn't load
[23:34] <TheSheep> Shooree: try starting compiz somehow
[23:34] <TheSheep> Shooree: if you can get to a terminal, type 'compiz' in it
[23:34] <Shooree> I can start it
[23:34] <Shooree> it just doesnt show borders
[23:34] <Shooree> or any items in the task list
[23:35] <J_Litewski> is compiz your window manager?
[23:35] <Shooree> and hi TheSheep, my saviour :)
[23:35] <Shooree> compiz and emerald
[23:35] <Shooree> emerald for decorations
[23:35] <J_Litewski> is emerald started?
[23:35] <Shooree> yea
[23:35] <TheSheep> then start also emerald
[23:35] <J_Litewski> do you still have the xfce window manager?
[23:36] <TheSheep> you can also try asking on teh compiz channel
[23:36] <TheSheep> !compiz
[23:36] <Shooree> mm
[23:36] <TheSheep> they are more experienced
[23:37] <Shooree> hm
[23:37] <Shooree> window focus also not working
[23:37] <Shooree> seems like everything just fell apart
[23:37] <Shooree> should I try reinstalling emerald
[23:38] <Shooree> #compiz-fusion
[23:38] <Shooree> oh
[23:38] <Shooree> sry
[23:40] <Shooree> right. Xfmw4 gives me everything back, if I select it as the window manager
[23:40] <Shooree> why would a thing like this happen, though
[23:42] <sonink> Has anyone ever had problems where the X server doesn't allow full resolution and color depth if a system is unable to pull an IP address?
[23:51] <kaveh> hey
[23:51] <kaveh> whos here?
[23:51] <J_Litewski> Shoore, sounds like Compiz failed
[23:51] <J_Litewski> or Emerils
[23:51] <J_Litewski> *Emerild
[23:53] <kaveh> this question is about vent but not one of those "getting it to work ones", im using alsa atm and nobody seems to have posted about sound quality. using gsm codecs that have never given issue on windows (im a new linux user) i get amplified over-tones which are very annoying
[23:53] <kaveh> has anyone else had this issue?
[23:58] <Shooree> J_Litewski, yea... <script src='http://pastie.org/432053.js'></script> if this helps
[23:58] <nikolam> kaveh, what application you use? you are just recording sound or use some kind of voip software?
[23:58] <Shooree> damn. Im not pasting this as I should, am I?


[12:19] <aleka> ok.. thanks..
[01:15] <dsas> Hi, Am I dreaming or did LP use to have a calendar function? I can't seem to find it.
[01:20] <LarstiQ> dsas: it used to, see https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+calendar
[01:24] <dsas> LarstiQ: Hm, ok...
[01:24] <dsas> thanks :)
[01:25] <dsas> As long as I'm not going crazy. :)
[01:26] <LarstiQ> dsas: that I do not know, but you are right that there used to be a calendar :)
[01:29] <Dominus_Suu1> hey, I think I'm an idiot and disabled my wiki.ubuntu account forever :(
[01:31] <Dominus_Suu1> could someone help me get my wiki account back, please?
[04:06] <BjornT> lifeless: re the 7000-line patch. you notice that there are several malone-release-management branch. the first one is 6000 lines, and i'm not responsible for it, it's brad's work. then follow 5 other branches which makes the total diff 7000 lines.
[04:06] <BjornT> lifeless: so it's really a 1000 line diff spread out on 5 different branches, you can't be unhappy about that :)
[04:07] <BjornT> lifeless: it might be a good idea to extend the pending-review page, though, so that these kind of things get easier to see. (basically allowing one to say that branch foo is based on branch bar, which hasn't been merged into rf yet)
[04:44] <spiv> BjornT: hmm, that's probably a good idea.  It's increasingly common that branches in the review queue depend on other branches.
[04:53] <stub> Is there a reason sync() is not public on our database classes?
[05:03] <stub> jamesh: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file2r2gTl.html
[05:06] <spiv> stub: none that I can think of.
[05:08] <jamesh> stub: looks good.
[05:08] <stub> ok. landing.
[05:09] <jamesh> stub: when I last looked at sync()/syncUpdate(), we were looking to see if it was easy to automatically expose them on all SQLObjects
[05:09] <stub> tricky?
[05:09] <jamesh> but our security framework doesn't make that particularly easy
[05:09] <stub> I've only ever had an issue in tests so far, and flush_database_updates is just as good in that case.
[05:10] <jamesh> I added canonical.launchpad.ftests.syncUpdate(), which can be used from tests
[05:10] <stub> ok
[05:10] <jamesh> it unwraps the security proxy and calls syncUpdate()
[05:10] <jamesh> unless you are doing data modifying SQL, syncUpdate() is usually what you want rather than sync()
[05:40] <lifeless> BjornT: can you please file a bug on launhcpad-development-infrastructure about the enhancement to do
[05:41] <BjornT> sure
[06:10] <lifeless> thanks
[07:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74011 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Allow saying against which branch a diff should be produced from" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74011
[08:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74017 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "launchpad-developer-dependencies package should require bzr-pqm" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74017
[09:15] <carlos> morning
[09:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74019 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Please provide launchpad-*-dependencies packages for dapper at lpdebs.canonical.com" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74019
[09:48] <jordi> lifeless: ah, I was sleeping when Aleka came in
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74025 in launchpad "Cache problems with doc tests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74025
[11:22] <careyo> if someone registers a product on launchpad, are they able to request it be removed from launchpad (for whatever reason)?
[11:36] <jordi> careyo: it can be hidden
[11:36] <jordi> ie, deactivated
[11:37] <careyo> jordi: I see, and that is able to be done by who? I am guessing by the person who registered the product.
[11:38] <careyo> or does it have to be requested, and someone higher up does it?
[11:39] <jordi> requested
[11:39] <careyo> ok
[11:39] <careyo> just curious, thanks
[11:39] <jordi> (and argumented :)
[11:39] <careyo> fair enough :)
[12:01] <danilos> jordi: ping
[12:01] <jordi> pong
[12:20] <salgado> hey stub, might you have some time to review my db patch on pillar-gotchis today?
[12:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74031 in launchpad-bazaar "supermirror pull frequency should be more transparent" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74031
[12:33] <stub> salgado: You need UPDATE person SET emblem=NULL WHERE teamowner IS NULL AND emblem IS NOT NULL;
[12:33] <stub> Because some people have emblems
[12:34] <stub> salgado: (before adding the CHECK constraint of course)
[12:34] <stub> salgado: With that, r=stub, patch-67-34-0.sql
[12:35] <salgado> stub, will do that change. thanks a lot!
[12:36] <stub> shouldn't we be scaling them?
[12:37] <salgado> stub, you mean, generating the emblem from the gotchi?
[12:37] <stub> yes
[12:38] <stub> currently looks like users upload the large image, and it automatically gets stored as the smaller ones too despite the comments saying there are max pixel sizes.
[12:38] <salgado> kiko was concerned about that, because you usually will have to tweak an image (removing small details), to make it clear what it is in such a small size
[12:39] <stub> but ianar (i am not a reviewer)
[12:40] <salgado> stub, that'd be a bug, IIUC. where you see that?
[12:40] <stub>  class PersonHackergotchiView(GeneralFormView): def process
[12:41] <stub> oh - ignore me
[12:41] <salgado> btw, that view is already gone. my pillar-gotchis-2 branch should be up for review soon
[12:42] <cprov> good morning, folks
[12:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74032 in launchpad-bazaar "users should be able to request immediate mirroring" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74032
[12:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74033 in launchpad-bazaar "configurable pull interval for mirror branches" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74033
[01:07] <SteveA> ddaa: hi
[01:07] <SteveA> ddaa: I replied about your help text email.  Thanks for writing that, and doing the help text except where you're blocked on it.
[01:23] <kiko> good morning
[01:24] <salgado> do we have a special tag for ui-1.0 bugs?
[01:28] <kiko> there's a ui tag
[01:28] <kiko> but nothing related to 1.0
[01:28] <kiko> note however that we will be able to target bugs to releases soon
[01:28] <salgado> yeah, I'm using the ui tag for now
[01:29] <SteveA> I think using the ui tag is enough
[01:29] <SteveA> because we should not do much more work on the old ui
[01:46] <salgado> BjornT, everything looks good on your malone-release-management-3 branch. r=salgado
[01:49] <kiko> wow
[01:49] <kiko> that's a momentous r=salgado
[01:49] <kiko> good job
[01:49] <kiko> hey carlos, danilos
[01:49] <danilos> hey kiko
[01:49] <carlos> kiko: hey
[01:50] <kiko> how's the weather?
[01:50] <kiko> it's rocky with a southern current here
[01:50] <danilos> 8 degrees celsius, pretty foggy ;)
[01:50] <danilos> but it should clear up towards the evening
[01:50] <carlos> I guess today will rain here.. ;-)
[01:53] <danilos> kiko: "clearing up" was re ff ;)
[01:54] <BjornT> thanks salgado
[01:56] <kiko> carlos, what's bothering you?
[01:58] <carlos> It's mostly fixed, but "CURRENT_TIMESTAMP AT TIME ZONE 'UTC'" is being cached by sqlobject when it should get a valid date
[01:58] <kiko> well
[01:58] <carlos> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/74025
[01:58] <kiko> isn't that the time of the transaction?
[01:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74025 in launchpad "Cache problems with doc tests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[01:59] <carlos> kiko: It happens after commit
[01:59] <carlos> even fetching the objects again
[02:28] <quicksilver> I may have confused launchpad in my attempts to register. Anyone help me unconfuse it?
[02:28] <salgado> quicksilver, sure. what happened?
[02:28] <quicksilver> I started the registration process as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:29] <quicksilver> but I didn't complete it because some one pointed out I was already tehre
[02:29] <quicksilver> https://launchpad.net/people/jules <--- this is me
[02:29] <quicksilver> So  I clicked 'Hey, I'm Jules Bean' and told it to email info to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:29] <quicksilver> which I guess would be the address it has for me
[02:29] <quicksilver> never got that email though :(
[02:30] <salgado> did it say that the email was sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:30] <quicksilver> yes
[02:30] <salgado> and how long ago was that?
[02:30] <quicksilver> and I did test myself sending a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and the address does appear to work
[02:30] <quicksilver> 5 minutes ago, maybe?
[02:32] <salgado> I remember we had some delays when delivering emails, in some rare occasions. it may be the case here. :/
[02:32] <quicksilver> ah ok
[02:33] <quicksilver> I'll go have lunch and see if that helps
[02:33] <quicksilver> having lunch often helps :)
[02:33] <salgado> heh. indeed. if it doesn't help launchpad it surely helps you. :)
[02:33] <salgado> in my case it helps a lot
[02:33] <salgado> quicksilver, I guess you've checked your spam filters, just to be sure?
[02:34] <quicksilver> salgado: I did better than that, I checked my exim logs
[02:34] <quicksilver> salgado: definitely nothing from launchpad. Well just the one message from the registration attempt I aborted
[02:35] <salgado> well, then it must be a delay issue. if it doesn't arrive after you finish having lunch I'll investigate with the sysadmins
[02:43] <quicksilver> ddaa: bah, looks like master.debian.org sat on the email for 32 minutes
[02:43] <quicksilver> salgado: that was for you, really :)
[02:44] <salgado> heh
[02:44] <salgado> that was a quick lunch, eh?
[02:45] <quicksilver> haven't eaten it yet, just bought it :)
[02:46] <salgado> ah, right. :)
[02:47] <salgado> but the email arrived, finally?
[02:47] <quicksilver> woo now I can edit that bzr bug
[02:47] <quicksilver> which is what this was all about
[02:48] <salgado> cool.
[02:49] <salgado> quicksilver, we also have an email interface for that. it might be handy in case you're used to debbugs
[02:49] <ddaa> well, now you can also edit bugs on ubuntu, request free CD, translate applications in Outer-Qwghlmian, host bzr branches and more :)
[02:49] <ddaa> Though the outstanding question is whether one would really want to translate application in Outer-Qwghlmian
[02:49] <quicksilver> my Outer-Qwghlmian is fairly rusty, alas
[03:22] <carlos> salgado: review answered. Do you think would be possible to get an answer today?
[03:22] <carlos> BjornT: I have another review answer for you (still working on it) would you have sometime later today to handle it?
[03:28] <ddaa> SteveA: kiko: I'm getting tired of writing. So feedback sought on https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar1h2007
[03:29] <salgado> carlos, I'll try my best. what time are you leaving?
[03:29] <ddaa> I will put in more details for the vcs-imports and dogfood sections later.
[03:29] <SteveA> ddaa: mail launchpad list, and I'll look next week
[03:32] <carlos> salgado: when that's done
[03:32] <carlos> salgado: I will be at home, so I will be around
[03:33] <carlos> salgado: thanks
[03:36] <sabdfl> ddaa: it's good, but it's a bit confused, needs to be more "boom boom boom" IYKWIM
[03:37] <sabdfl> i.e. "These are the top priorities for Bazaar-Launchpad in 2007"
[03:37] <sabdfl> do you want me to climb in a bit?
[03:38] <sabdfl> at the moment it talks a lot about how success should feel, but not about what is planned to be delivered
[03:38] <kiko> sabdfl, ddaa: why are we prioritizing using text? I thought we'd do that using 1.1 and 1.2 goals. or is this to prepare 1.1 and 1.2?
[03:41] <BjornT> carlos: i'm not sure i'll have time to look at it today, we'll see. if not, i'll look at it on monday for sure.
[03:44] <sabdfl> kiko: its nice to have a descriptive rationale for the roadmap alongside the actual listings
[03:44] <kiko> sabdfl, my concern is that it's very easy for that rationale to go very out of date as soon as we start changing the listings mid-process.
[03:44] <sabdfl> kiko: agreed, but it's a short term (1-2Q) roadmap
[03:44] <kiko> right, cool
[03:45] <SteveA> sabdfl: I'd like ddaa to actually do the writing on this
[03:45] <SteveA> so, I'd prefer you to give him specific feedback (or relay that via our conf call that is soon)
[03:46] <ddaa> sabdfl: you've been watching too many Steve Jobs keynotes :)
[03:46] <ddaa> Note that I just renamed the page to https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar2007h1#preview
[03:46] <kiko> what's h1?
[03:46] <sabdfl> 1st half of the year
[03:46] <SteveA> 1st half
[03:47] <SteveA> standard abbrs: q1, h1, w1
[03:47] <SteveA> quarter, half, week
[03:47] <sabdfl> ddaa: never watched one. must be something we have in common, along with being royal pains in the neck to work for ;-)
[03:47] <SteveA> sabdfl: I hope someone buys you a dark turtle-neck for xmas
[03:48] <ddaa> sabdfl: at allhands some watched a video that collated "boom"s said by Steve Jobs during keynotes, quite funny
[03:48] <ddaa> but not quite as funny as the video that collates all the "fuck" in the Big Lebowsky :)
[03:48] <sabdfl> i'd be glad to do my own personal boom-fuck anthology
[03:49] <ddaa> sabdfl: please feel free to edit the document. This is just an early brain dump.
[03:49] <ddaa> Not that the "use cases" section is definitely tongue-in-cheek :)
[03:50] <ddaa> I do plan to dig into more detail, if only to get more confidence that these are reasonable goals for the intended time fram.
[03:52] <carlos> BjornT: ok, thanks
[03:53] <matsubara> kiko, carlos, danilos: what was the outcome of your meeting yesterday about the +translate page?
[03:53] <kiko> matsubara, I'm going to do the query rewrites since the other alternatives will take longer to do.
[03:54] <matsubara> kiko: ok, thanks
[04:10] <SteveA> ddaa: there's a question about hiding / deleting branches on launchpad-users
[04:11] <SteveA> fyi
[04:11] <ddaa> ah... just when I thought I was running out of "soft" things to do and could handle some reviews...
[04:13] <sabdfl> ddaa: i've made a start, need to do some other work, will return to this later
[04:42] <salgado> carlos, ping
[04:42] <sabdfl> SteveA, kiko, ddaa: OK, i'm happy with that https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar2007h1 page now :-)
[04:43] <sabdfl> i'm sure it could do with more work but the roadmap is a clearer reflection of the things we have already talked about
[04:43] <sabdfl> it would be good to map these items to specs / bugs
[04:43] <sabdfl> also, to get poolie's input
[04:44] <danilos> carlos: ping
[04:45] <kiko> okay, let me dash for some lunch, sabdfl, SteveA: back in 15
[04:45] <sabdfl> see you on the call kiko
[04:46] <now3d> Hello, could some direct me to documenation so I can assign this bug to language-support-en please?  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/28226
[04:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28226 in Ubuntu "en install ends up with en_US packages being installed" [Medium,Rejected]
[04:49] <matsubara> now3d: click the 'Ubuntu' link below the Affects: and choose a package name
[04:49] <carlos> salgado: pong
[04:50] <matsubara> now3d: that's bug 1095, btw
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1095 in malone "Unnecessarily difficult to find how to change status or reassign a bug" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1095
[04:52] <salgado> carlos, when you have a branch that you want to land ASAP, you should try really hard to keep it very concise. you added quite some code to your bug-68014 branch since my first review. and more code means more chances of having things that would block the landing, as well as lot more effort from your reviewer
[04:52] <carlos> the thing is that I missed a kind of notification...
[04:52] <now3d> matsubara: Ok, thanks
[04:53] <salgado> it would have been okay if that code was necessary to fix that bug, but it is not, as you pointed
[04:53] <carlos> sorry, phone...
[04:56] <SteveA> sabdfl: can we have a pre-call call?
[04:56] <sabdfl> stub you beauty
[04:59] <sabdfl> SteveA: sure
[04:59] <carlos> salgado: well, most of it was needed to send the notification email
[05:00] <carlos> salgado: the only thing I did was add two extra notification emails
[05:01] <carlos> salgado: if that's a problem, I'm happy to split out those concrete changes. Is quite easy to split them out into another branch, I could even commit them as trivial later (most changes were related with tests because the amount of lines is quite big to check that)
[05:02] <SteveA> sabdfl: I'm in the conf call now
[05:02] <sabdfl> me too
[05:05] <kiko-fud> so am I
[05:09] <dmbasso> hello
[05:16] <salgado> carlos, well, since now I'm halfway through the second review it'd be worst to split it, I think. the problem is that it may not be possible for you to land this branch today, since I may not have time for a third round of review
[05:16] <carlos> ok
[05:17] <carlos> salgado: anyway, I guess the problem was that I forgot the email testing (and missed some features on it) more than fixing the other bug. Thanks for your effort anyway
[05:18] <salgado> np
[05:18] <dmbasso> I need help from an admin... (I need to remove a product from a project)
[05:19] <dmbasso> any admin available?
[05:19] <kiko> dmbasso, please file a new ticket on launchpad
[05:20] <dmbasso> ok, thanks
[05:32] <dmbasso> done, the bug was already registered... Bug #38349: Can't delete a product you created
[05:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38349 in launchpad "Can't delete a product you created" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38349
[05:33] <kiko> dmbasso, a ticket, not a bug, sorry -- launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+tickets
[05:34] <dmbasso> ahhh, right... sorry, I'm not used to this protocol ;)
[06:15] <kiko> carlos, so how's it going?
[06:15] <kiko> heya stub
[06:16] <carlos> kiko: hi, still working on reviews
[06:16] <carlos> kiko: although BjornT already told me that he will not be able to answer my review answer until Monday
[06:17] <kiko> is that bad news? :-)
[06:17] <kiko> flacoste:
 flacoste: If you ever come back, you can do "bzr remerge --merge-type=weave file/foo"
[06:17] <carlos> kiko: not really ;-) I have a plan B, but you are too anxious
[06:17] <j-a-meinel> thanks kiko
[06:18] <flacoste> kiko: thx!
[06:18] <kiko> carlos, I am not anxious, but I move close to the speed of light
[06:18] <somerville32> Can someone help me setup bzr for a product?
[06:18] <carlos> kiko: should I share it with you now? or will you wait until I finish my work today?
[06:19] <kiko> carlos, I don't think asking me to wait is a good strategy, as we discussed on the phone yesterday -- constant and continuous conversation is key
[06:20] <carlos> kiko: ok, as I will not get BjornT's answer today, I will give you a present for Monday (or this weekend if you want to do it then), the readonly form. This will reach your goal of having that merged on Monday without causing conflicts
[06:21] <kiko> I see. are you sandbagging BjornT as well now!
[06:21] <carlos> I was thinking on doing that even if I get the review, because it's quite easy to do it, but as I said... you are to anxious ;-)
[06:21] <carlos> kiko: why?
[06:21] <kiko> heh
[06:21] <kiko> well, more for him to review, no?
[06:21] <carlos> kiko: I will branch TranslationReview and send a diff against that branch
[06:22] <kiko> ah, very good plan
[06:22] <kiko> good job
[06:22] <carlos> kiko: I was thinking on you to review it!
[06:22] <kiko> I may be a perfect candidate
[06:23] <carlos> so we have a deal
[06:24] <carlos> kiko: btw, do you know how to modify: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filexpl4Wq.html
[06:24] <carlos> kiko: so the label 'New suggestion'  is linked with the checkbox?
[06:25] <kiko> carlos, yes.
[06:25] <carlos> I was thinking on using onClick event because I don't see the way to do it without breaking the layout
[06:25] <kiko> use id="..."
[06:25] <kiko> mmm?
[06:25] <carlos> oh
[06:25] <carlos> ok
[06:25] <kiko> just use id and for
[06:25] <kiko> however
[06:25] <kiko> remember: IDs need to be unique for the page
[06:25] <carlos> the name is already unique in that page
[06:25] <carlos> so I can use it as id too
[06:25] <carlos> kiko: ok, thanks
[06:26] <kiko> yep. good job!
[06:26] <carlos> I thought the text and the checkbox should be linked using the <label> tag
[06:34] <kiko> carlos, well, they are linked, but you need to use id and for
[06:34] <carlos> kiko: it's already done. Thanks for the hint
[06:35] <kiko> sure thing.
[06:52] <outime> Hi there
[06:53] <outime> I was talking yesterday with one user of LaunchPad and he says: 'The alias for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>will be activated in one day or two'
[06:53] <outime> (when you sign the code of conduct)
[06:53] <outime> but I don't have anything
[06:53] <outime> What I need to do?
[06:56] <kiko> that's untrue.
[06:56] <salgado> outime, you need to be approved as an ubuntu member first
[06:56] <kiko> to have an ubuntu.com address, you need to be an Ubuntu member.
[06:56] <outime> Well, How I can?
[06:57] <Weebit> member?
[06:57] <outime> ah
[06:57] <outime> I'm translating Ubuntu English to Spanish
[06:57] <Weebit> cool
[06:58] <outime> How I need to do for be a 'Ubuntu member'?
[06:58] <Weebit> im still waiting on the cd  :)
[07:00] <outime> ok forget it
[07:06] <carlos> kiko: my mistake
[07:06] <carlos> outime: Sorry for the bad info from me
[07:06] <outime> Don't worry carlos
[07:07] <somerville32> outtime: see http://ubuntu.com/community
[07:08] <outime> Thanks somerville32
[07:12] <Weebit> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember   is this the membership you are meaning?
[07:12] <kiko> Weebit, yes.
[07:12] <Weebit> oh
[07:12] <Weebit> I didnt know about this
[07:12] <Weebit> hmm
[07:12] <SteveA> LarstiQ: ping
[07:13] <outime> Hey, thanks Weebit, that's right :-)
[07:16] <Weebit> I help but I have a full plate as it is, so i just set up webpages with instrutions and info on Linux I only have one Ubuntu page for right now and i am not sure if the instructions are good.
[07:17] <Weebit> your welcome
[07:17] <Weebit> n/p
[07:17] <Weebit> finding someone to validate a page is about impossible
[07:26] <LarstiQ> SteveA: pong
[07:27] <kiko> BjornT?
[07:31] <somerville32> Is it bazaar.launchpad.net or baazar.launchpad.net?
[07:33] <stgraber> bazaar.launchpad.net
[07:34] <salgado> somerville32, I think https://code.launchpad.net/ is what you're looking for
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74067 in malone "[wishlist]  limit searches by package repository" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74067
[09:00] <mhb> hi all
[09:06] <kiko> hey mhb
[09:06] <kiko> mhb, I have news for you
[09:06] <kiko> carlos will have a surprise for us on monday I hear!
[09:06] <mhb> kiko: about search via google?
[09:06] <kiko> indeed!
[09:06] <kiko> I am on the tip of the seat
[09:06] <mhb> kiko: so I heard ... I wanted to thank you
[09:06] <kiko> you're most welcome
[09:07] <kiko> I am looking forward to the translation form changes he has in stock for us
[09:07] <kiko> when it lands on staging I'll ping you to have you do some of the reviewing, mhb
[09:07] <mhb> thanks
[09:08] <mhb> kiko: I asked carlos a few minutes ago but it seems he hasn't responded, so I thought I'll ask you
[09:08] <mhb> kiko: how can a non-lp-dev request or implement a feature?
[09:09] <matsubara> mhb: filing bugs or adding specs
[09:09] <mhb> matsubara: will you somehow provide us with specs or other information necessary?
[09:10] <mhb> let's say I want to have a feature ABC in Rosetta, but I know it's not a high priority one, so I might wait years for that
[09:12] <matsubara> mhb: sorry, I was answering the first part of the question, you can request features by: filing bugs <https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+filebug>or adding a spec <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addspec>
[09:13] <mhb> matsubara: yes, but if I fear I can wait several cycles for them, and who knows if I'll be doing translations by then
[09:14] <mhb> (no if in the first part)
[09:14] <kiko> mhb, well, that can happen, yes, but if there's a significant community interested in the feature, I and other launchpad developers will listen
[09:19] <mhb> kiko: yes, but even the search took quite a while and that was requested almost by every translator ... I know you guys are busy, what I'm trying to find out is how to help myself
[09:19] <mhb> kiko: if I want to take part in the development of the feature, for instance
[09:20] <kiko> well, there is one thing I should clarify: rosetta development of new features is somewhat hampered by the performance work we still need to do on the tool.
[09:20] <kiko> so as we fix those annoying timeouts, we will be able to improve this significantly
[09:20] <mhb> kiko: some features I'd like are quite trivial, like sending a mail with a .po file in it
[09:21] <kiko> the basic features are still being implemented, in a way: support for firefox and ooo translations, better translation review, searching and team levels
[09:21] <kiko> mhb, well, if you have enough time and really want to help out, you could initiate the process to become a code contributor.
[09:21] <mhb> kiko: not to me, but to a coordinator of an upstream project
[09:21] <kiko> mhb, I see. so essentially requesting an export on the behalf of another user?
[09:22] <mhb> kiko: something like that, yes
[09:22] <mhb> kiko: it would simplify communication with upstream
[09:23] <kiko> would upstream not see this as spamming?
[09:23] <mhb> hard to say
[09:23] <mhb> they actually want to get the .po files that way so they can review them
[09:23] <mhb> (at least the Czech ones do)
[09:24] <kiko> right. what if instead we gave them a persistent directory to go to to fetch the latest pofile exports?
[09:24] <kiko> something like
[09:24] <kiko> launchpad.net/products/gaim/+translation-files
[09:25] <kiko> and that page listed the most recent exports
[09:25] <kiko> and when they were generated
[09:25] <kiko> and offered a button to regenerate them on-demand
[09:25] <mhb> yes, but I still have to inform them (by mail) that I actually request syncing those .po files
[09:26] <kiko> well
[09:26] <kiko> we could have those pofiles synced periodically
[09:26] <kiko> if you set it up that way
[09:26] <kiko> (i.e. if you said "yes, upstream wants to pick up updated pofiles from here regularly)
[09:27] <kiko> I just think that that builds a better relationship than "spamming" upstream
[09:27] <mhb> it gets more complicated because the pofile in Rosetta often differs a lot from the current pofile in upstream which they work on
[09:27] <mhb> either way sounds good to me
[09:27] <kiko> right, but they msgmerge, don't they?
[09:27] <carlos> mhb: sorry, I was away of the computer
[09:27] <kiko> right
[09:27] <mhb> carlos: no problem
[09:27] <kiko> carlos, have a read above -- have we considered a feature like that before?
[09:28] <carlos> let me read...
[09:29] <mhb> kiko: the best solution would be to have a kind of "msgmerge a pofile on demand" button in Rosetta, too
[09:30] <kiko> mhb, can you outline that scenario better?
[09:30] <carlos> mhb, kiko: yes we talked about such feature
[09:30] <carlos> as part of the notification system
[09:30] <carlos> when a .po file is fully translated upstream would get an email with the url where they can get the .po file
[09:31] <carlos> but to prevent the spam problem, we talked about requiring a confirmation from upstream that they want to get such emails
[09:32] <mhb> I open the translation of a pofile in Rosetta and click on "merge with upstream", which downloads the most recent translations from upstream and puts them in suggestions if they differ from the Rosetta ones (or something like that)
[09:33] <carlos> well, to do it as suggestions
[09:33] <carlos> you will not need to request it
[09:33] <carlos> we had the plan to fetch daily from GNOME and KDE's CVS/SVN
[09:33] <carlos> and that will show you those translations as suggestions
[09:33] <mhb> carlos: killer
[09:33] <mhb> carlos: did you abandon that plan?
[09:34] <carlos> no, we delayed it
[09:35] <mhb> ok, so that is already proposed
[09:36] <mhb> but I'd like to somehow make the pofile easily accessible to upstream even though it is 100% translated there
[09:37] <carlos> mhb: we cannot mail them unless they want to be mailed, that's the only problem I see there
[09:37] <mhb> that's the feature I discussed with kiko a few minutes ago
[09:37] <kiko> carlos, I suggested keeping the files listed on a page
[09:37] <carlos> I answered it, if upstream allows us to send the emails, that's fine
[09:38] <carlos> I see
[09:38] <kiko> I kinda like that
[09:38] <kiko> because it means that upstream can use a URL to "buy into" Launchpad
[09:39] <mhb> mailing a few URLs is not that hard
[09:39] <kiko> right
[09:42] <mhb> kiko: one of the interesting things for me would be if "occasional contributors" to LP/Rosetta/Malone/other stuff would exist
[09:42] <kiko> mhb, as I said, if you'd like to go through the contributor process, you can
[09:43] <mhb> kiko: but the truth is I don't have that much time for contributing a lot of features
[09:43] <kiko> I know. maybe you're better off nagging us about the features, because that's also helpful
[09:44] <kiko> a lot of the time the lack of user feedback makes us make the wrong decisions
[09:44] <kiko> so just reminding us periodically is good
[09:45] <carlos> kiko++
[09:46] <kiko> ok, that's it
[09:46] <kiko> damned @#!@@# wiki
[09:47] <carlos> :-P
[09:47] <matsubara> carlos, danilos: what do you think of this bug https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/73519? reasonable request? seems reasonable to me
[09:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73519 in rosetta "Change translations to approved post membership acceptance to translation team" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[09:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62495
[09:49] <danilos> matsubara: it's reasonable, but I feel it's not something you'd want always: eg. translations from someone might be improving over time, so you just want the improved-her, not old-her :)
[09:49] <carlos> matsubara: hmm, it's reasonable, yes
[09:50] <carlos> danilos: I guess we should offer the option whether doing that or not and leave that decision to the team coordinator
[09:50] <kiko> I second danilos's consideration -- it is sometimes useful but it's kinda hard to accept /everything/ a person did en-masse
[09:50] <kiko> carlos, what if you want all of his translations but one?
[09:51] <matsubara> danilos: well, the reporter says "only for strings that don't have translations"
[09:52] <carlos> kiko: you are fucked ;-)
[09:52] <kiko> heh
[09:52] <danilos> matsubara: still, it's the same reasoning (i.e. no translation is sometimes better, since you can actually find it easier)
[09:52] <carlos> that's true
[09:53] <matsubara> well, confirmed and marked it as wishlist, should I link it with the translation-review spec?
[09:53] <kiko> not t-r, pelase
[09:54] <carlos> matsubara: no, translation-review is already complex as it's atm
[09:54] <carlos> and we are finishing it right now, it needs a new spec
[09:55] <matsubara> ok, I'll leave that to you guys. :) gotta go now, otherwise I'll lose my bus.
[09:56] <carlos> matsubara: see you!
[09:56] <mhb> kiko: so you think such ocassional help is unwanted?
[09:56] <mhb> kiko: it's not about me - I guess there are more folks who can help occasionally
[09:56] <matsubara> see you guys! have a good weekend
[09:56] <radix> so, if I have specific complaints about the navigation of certain parts of malone, should I file bugs?
[09:57] <kiko> mhb, not unwanted, but perhaps impractical right now
[09:57] <radix> (currently about milestones)
[09:57] <kiko> I'd /love/ to have contributors!
[09:57] <kiko> radix, sure.
[09:57] <mhb> kiko: In which way impractical?
[09:58] <kiko> mhb, well, contributing to launchpad code requires effort and has a learning curve
[09:58] <kiko> so if you only have a little time
[09:58] <kiko> it is a lot of work
[09:58] <mhb> kiko: a) you can reject or delay the patches they commit and b) the full time folks can still concetrate on bugs, stability, efficiency etc
[09:59] <kiko> mhb, my point is that they may not be able to send patches /at all/
[09:59] <mhb> I see ... the documentation to LP is closed as well, isn't it?
[10:03] <outime> Guys, for a mistake, I suscribe my team for receive any support request, and I would deactivate, and I forget the locacation for this. Anyone can help me?
[10:04] <flacoste-lunch> outime: it's probably Ubuntu
[10:04] <flacoste-lunch> that's where most support requests are located
[10:04] <outime> Where I need to go?
[10:05] <flacoste> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+support-contact
[10:05] <outime> flacoste, perfect!! Thanks you
[10:06] <kiko> mhb, yes, but you'd have access to that with a contributor agreement
[10:09] <mhb> kiko: so I can just read the doc first with no problems?
[10:10] <mhb> kiko: do you have a page about the agreement?
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74080 in malone "milestone navigation: when viewing a milestone, all product navigation is greyed out" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74080
[10:10] <kiko> mhb, no, you'd need to contact someone at canonical to kick off the process
[10:12] <carlos> see you!
[10:12] <mhb> see you
[10:13] <mhb> kiko: trying that won't hurt, I guess
[10:14] <mhb> kiko: can you be more exact on whom I should contact?
[10:16] <kiko> mhb, let me kick off the process for you; it's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>correct?
[10:17] <mhb> bohm
[10:17] <mhb> martin.bohm
[10:17] <kiko> right, bohm. I am sleeping on the keys now
[10:17] <kiko> apologies
[10:19] <mhb> no problem
[10:20] <mhb> kiko: thanks
[10:20] <kiko> most welcome
[10:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74085 in malone "Simultaneous edits to bugs lose information" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74085
[11:04] <kiko> that's a dupe!