[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> at least until hoary
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> when KDE moves into supported
[08:46] <mwilson> That's too bad... so what makes it different will die out.
[08:46] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: Answer me this, why would you want a distro that is filled with leading people from GNOME working on KDE?
[08:47] <mwilson> Considering KDE's market share, I'm surprised.
[08:47] <|trey|> Makes no sense... would be like Kalyxo working on GNOME  :/
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: answer me this, why would you not want to support the other major desktop environment
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I didn't say working on
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I said supported
[08:47] <smeggy> Which has a larger user base KDE or GNOME?
[08:47] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: Because choice confuses morons
[08:47] <Se7h> hmm, i im reading something here about iDesk being good for openbox for ie
[08:47] <mwilson> s/other//
[08:47] <Se7h> giving the desktop some icons
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: they don't get a choice unless they specifically install kde
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> and reconfigure things to use it
[08:48] <|trey|> Then whats the point even including it?
[08:48] <HrdwrBoB> *Sigh*
[08:48] <mwilson> I thought one of the reasons for Ubuntu's existence was as a Gnome mouthpiece?
[08:48] <|trey|> I say stick to what you do best, users of Ubuntu shouldn't be wanting KDE, its a GNOME distro...
[08:48] <mwilson> Gods know Gnome could certainly use one.
[08:48] <smeggy> Which has a larger user base KDE or GNOME? Anyone know?
[08:48] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: afaik, GNOME
[08:49] <|trey|> smeggy: in corporations, GNOME, at home, KDE
[08:49] <hazmat> kde
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> KDE is... dwindling
[08:49] <mwilson> KDE does.
[08:49] <Todd_MA_1975> Question:  I noticed that ndiswrapper just got added into the package tree.  From a new install will I be able to install this ndiswrapper (let it figure out the kernel source/headers dependencies)?  Then just be able to do a ndiswrapper -i xxxxxxx.inf, modprobe ndiswrapper, etc...?
[08:49] <smeggy> Interesting... I would have guessed different, HrdwrBoB..
[08:49] <_ranman_> Why would you follow who has a larger user base?
[08:49] <mwilson> Look at what the distributions are doing.
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> GNOME makes a lot more sense than KDE now
[08:49] <|trey|> mwilson: corporations aren't using KDE though...
[08:49] <smeggy> I'm not following, I'm just wondering.
[08:49] <_ranman_> Seems gnome to me is more for the office..
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> not really
[08:49] <mwilson> |trey|: Corporations aren't significantly using Linux, either.
[08:50] <|trey|> mwilson: true also..
[08:50] <_ranman_> I find that mutimedia, works better in KDE..
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> I use gnome everywhere, but sysadmins != users
[08:50] <smeggy> I'm pretty DE agnostic really.
[08:50] <hazmat> lets try it another way, what do the majority of the major distros ship with
[08:50] <_ranman_> It is more a matter of opinion, and choice..
[08:50] <smeggy> I'm equally at home in either.  Though I prefer Gnome/GTKs look.
[08:50] <|trey|> GNOME has better support today though, this is the primary reasoning it being more popular in corporations...
[08:50] <mwilson> hazmat: KDE
[08:50] <hazmat> mandrake, lindows, suse, connectiva -> kde
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: it's also a lot more logical
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> and wholistic
[08:51] <|trey|> mwilson: umm... Mandrake is the only distro you can consider as major that ships KDE...
[08:51] <smeggy> Suse is pretty major...
[08:51] <hazmat> is redhat the only major distro that ships gnome?
[08:51] <hazmat> er. as default
[08:51] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: That is debateable, but lets not start a flame war  :)
[08:51] <mwilson> Gnome spent too much time on technical excellence and got passed by the touchy-feely morons.  Maybe they can get that back, maybe they can't.
[08:51] <|trey|> smeggy: SUSE is as good as dead, Novell Linux Desktop uses GNOME...
[08:52] <smeggy> I guess..
[08:52] <|trey|> s/uses/defaults to/
[08:52] <mwilson> hang out in user fora... all the questions are KDE-this, and KDE-that.
[08:53] <mwilson> So Ubuntu giving up its major point-of-difference seems like a bad idea.
[08:54] <hazmat> the ubuntu user mailing list has an insane amount of traffic
[08:54] <mwilson> hazmat: It's new, the clueless are still swarming over it.
[08:54] <|trey|> mwilson: that I agree... wouldn't feel right if KDE were shipped in Ubuntu's main  :/
[08:55] <opi^work> |trey|: but users are the one who should select what's good for them
[08:55] <opi^work> |trey|: you dislike KDE? fine. Others don't.
[08:55] <mwilson> opi^work: Not hardly.
[08:55] <Todd_MA_1975> Can anybody help with ndiswrapper questions?
[08:56] <|trey|> opi^work: but a user that wants KDE shouldn't even be considering Ubuntu
[08:56] <hazmat> opi^work, agreed
[08:56] <|trey|> opi^work: no actually, its my prefered DE...
[08:56] <opi^work> but we should provide that option
[08:56] <|trey|> I wouldn't want to install it on Ubuntu though
[08:56] <hazmat> they appeal to different people.. playing desktop wars isn't productive..
[08:56] <opi^work> hazmat: true
[08:56] <mwilson> Users don't get to make decisions like that.
[08:56] <|trey|> Ubuntu is a GNOME distro, losing that means losing Ubuntu's image imo
[08:57] <opi^work> I don't fight about distros, I kinda dislike bitching on others :)
[08:57] <deFrysk> exept for mandrake ?
[08:57] <deFrysk> ;p
[08:57] <_ranman_> trey, what is the meaning of Ubunu?
[08:57] <opi^work> Ubuntu's GNOME distro? Fine :)
[08:57] <cybernout> so how do i manually install deb packages?
[08:57] <deFrysk> dpkg -i
[08:58] <opi^work> _ranman_: good point :D
[08:58] <HrdwrBoB> cybernout: you can use dpkg -i, however you shouldn't need to
[08:58] <cybernout> you mean all packages are there?
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> lots are installed by default
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> once the system is installed
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> you can run the synaptic package manager to install new packages
[08:59] <cybernout> ok, :)
[08:59] <_ranman_> Just don't ask for KDE... haha
[08:59] <mwilson> Does Ubuntu ship aptitude as well, or just synaptic?
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[08:59] <|trey|> _ranman_: "a person is a person through other people" this describes a community, the communities Ubuntu is a part of is Debian and GNOME.
[09:00] <|trey|> mwilson: both
[09:00] <opi^work> it's time for mug of coffee
[09:00] <opi^work> and some work :/
[09:00] <mwilson> Wow... that's too bad.
[09:00] <neuro_> it's always time for a mug of coffee
[09:00] <|trey|> mwilson: how come?
[09:00] <opi^work> neuro_: or two ;)
[09:00] <neuro_> :)
[09:00] <_ranman_> haha.. trey, took awhile to come up with a good answer..
[09:00] <|trey|> _ranman_: wanted to quote the site  :/
[09:01] <mwilson> aptitude being broken, especially compared to synaptic
[09:01] <|trey|> mwilson: at no point does it ever make you use aptitude though..
[09:01] <mwilson> Users'll love that the first time they mix the two.
[09:01] <opi^work> I just stick with apt-get ;)
[09:01] <|trey|> its just that tasksel depends it, thus so does the installer...
[09:01] <cybernout> how do i install the flashplug-in?
[09:02] <mwilson> |trey|: synaptic is certainly nothing special, but aptitude has fundamental problems.
[09:02] <|trey|> cybernout: add 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian sid contrib non-free' to your sources.list and type "apt-get update && apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree'
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> .. or not
[09:03] <|trey|> mwilson: so far, I am not liking synaptic at all... its kinda illogical imo... still sticking to tried and true apt-get...
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> flashplayer-mozilla
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> install that
[09:04] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: umm, care to point him at the repo containing that? cuz uhh, its not in Ubuntu...
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> crap, wrong machine
[09:04] <_ranman_> How is synaptic illogical for large installs?
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> my mistake
[09:04] <|trey|> (you're getting it from marralats site)
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> yeah I was on a different machine
[09:04] <|trey|> _ranman_: If I can't figure out how to upgrade all packages within 5 mins, its illogical...
[09:05] <joem> mark all upgrades is pretty straight forward
[09:05] <|trey|> joem: not so much  :/
[09:05] <_ranman_> ic... maybe he wants to download all in 5 minutes...
[09:06] <joem> what is confusing about that phrase
[09:06] <_ranman_> Get off of AOL..
[09:06] <joem> it has the words upgrade all
[09:06] <|trey|> joem: like I said, I was sat there for 5 mins before I was able to upgrade packages...
[09:06] <|trey|> illogical
[09:06] <|trey|> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade is logical
[09:06] <_ranman_> haha..
[09:06] <|trey|> _ranman_: /whois |trey|
[09:07] <_ranman_> usually I like to inspect what I am upgrading..
[09:07] <neuro_> apt-get -u upgrade then :)
[09:08] <|trey|> neuro_: surely you mean apt-get -s upgrade?
[09:08] <|trey|> as in simulate?
[09:08] <AfC> Is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/live-i386.iso the LiveCD? If so, is that the one to download, or is there a newer one, etc? Sorry if it's FAQ, but the FAQ doesn't link to a download...
[09:08] <|trey|> AfC: I would guess so...
[09:09] <|trey|> AfC: I would ask mdz if I was you, he is working on it... he said there was a new one going out today I think... not sure if thats it...
[09:10] <mwilson> Hm, are there actually images later than the 15-Sep ones?
[09:11] <jedi> there are the dailies
[09:11] <jedi> http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily/current/
[09:11] <_ranman_> Does it matter if there is a newer CD?
[09:11] <jedi> nah, just apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:11] <mwilson> No, someone asked me and I didn't know.
[09:12] <_ranman_> That is what I thought...
[09:12] <mwilson> The original image was enough for me to fiddle with.
[09:12] <|trey|> mwilson: apparently there are nightly builds... also, each new install gets the newest packages anyways...
[09:13] <mwilson> |trey|: Hardly.  I installed off the 15-Sep ISO today, and therefore, got what was on the 15-Sep image.
[09:13] <|trey|> mwilson: on the ReleaseSchedule from wiki: Sounder = new builds
[09:13] <HrdwrBoB> sounder was the pre-release testers
[09:13] <HrdwrBoB> there are currently nightly builds
[09:14] <|trey|> mwilson: bah... gaim then was 0.82.1, you will note you now have 1.0.0, firefox got upgraded, and menu got tweaked... these are obvious changes I have noted during fresh installs...
[09:14] <AfC> I know about the dailies, but they seem to be for the regular install-to-disk pre-release builds. Just wanted to see if someone would suggest which  livecd would be best to download
[09:14] <|trey|> mwilson: I installed first the day it was announced, and have installed 2 times since...
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> AfC: the liveCDs are built by hand
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> and I think that's the latest one
[09:14] <jedi> AfC: sorry, dailies thing was addressed to mwilson
[09:14] <mwilson> |trey|: Uh, no, how would I have anything later than what was on the image, or aren't you listening?
[09:14] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: the ReleaseSchedule notes there are more coming  :/
[09:15] <|trey|> mwilson: umm... k, well I don't install from the CD  :/
[09:15] <AfC> HrdwrBoB: [yeah - I've built a LiveCD before - was working with Morphix that go - I know how hard and finicky it can be]
[09:15] <|trey|> Never do  :/
[09:15] <AfC> jedi: np
[09:15] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: hm, possibly, in any case, a sounder CD is essentially a daily that is picked for some testing
[09:15] <cybernout> oh, i seem to be able to install flashplayer plugin by just clicking
[09:15] <|trey|> I don't recall there being anything I did to change that though...
[09:15] <cybernout> the plugin for firefox on the website
[09:15] <mwilson> |trey|: Ubuntu isn't something I'm going to use, there was no reason to update the box.
[09:15] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: look at the ReleaseSchedule, then come back and argue if I am wrong.
[09:15] <cybernout> now thats easy
[09:16] <|trey|> mwilson: umm, ok... why are you still here then?
[09:16] <jedi> hehe
[09:16] <mwilson> |trey|: To see what's going on.
[09:16] <mwilson> |trey|: You advocate digging a hole and covering yourself up?
[09:16] <|trey|> mwilson: planet.ubuntulinux.org is more enlightening  :/
[09:17] <|trey|> mwilson: personal attacks are not welcome, thankyou for taking the time to come up with one though...
[09:18] <AfC> |trey|: any idea where/when I might find mdz?
[09:18] <mwilson> |trey|: Really.  Describe this "personal attack" please... take your time.  I'll wait.
[09:18] <|trey|> He's here fairly often, he will come back eventually...
[09:18] <_ranman_> trey:but attacks against KDE are welcome though?
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> step a) stfu
[09:19] <mwilson> |trey|: Unless being quite up-front in saying that Ubuntu isn't for me is a personal attack...
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> steb c) profit
[09:19] <|trey|> mwilson: put downs of any kind that do not explicitly prove me wrong....
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> moving along
[09:20] <|trey|> mwilson: I'll help:  "<mwilson> |trey|: You advocate digging a hole and covering yourself up?"
[09:20] <|trey|> Unnecissary.
[09:20] <mwilson> I'm interested in how that's a put-down.
[09:21] <|trey|> You are eluding to the fact you don't think I deserve to be living, irrelivant to anything of relivence
[09:21] <_ranman_> mwilson: He has a thing about holes..
[09:21] <_ranman_> haha, trey really does not like holes..
[09:21] <jedi> hehe
[09:22] <|trey|> _ranman_: shut up, thanks
[09:22] <cybernout> whats the topic?
[09:22] <_ranman_> Trey: I think that you misunderstood..
[09:22] <mwilson> |trey|: I am?  I think it's much more likely that I was using a metaphor similar to the classic one of sticking your head in the sand and hoping the world goes away.
[09:22] <jedi> cybernout: /topic :)
[09:22] <_ranman_> I think that was a referal to gettin yourself in trouble..
[09:22] <mwilson> |trey|: But you go ahead and enjoy your insecurity.
[09:22] <cybernout> strange world...
[09:23] <mwilson> (btw... THAT was a put-down)
[09:23] <jedi> it's getting warm in here
[09:23] <|trey|> mwilson: I don't understand how that is simular but ok... my remidy: /ignore
[09:23] <cybernout> why dont you freeciv / doom eachother...
[09:24] <Wal> hehe nice call cybernout
[09:24] <t35t0r> ut2k4 each other
[09:25] <|trey|> ugh @ people not knowing when to stfu
[09:25] <mwilson> I don't own any of those... they're all snoozes.
[09:25] <mwilson> The last decent FPS was D2.
[09:26] <SuperLag> what package contains maildirmake?
[09:26] <cybernout> or a game of chess...:P
[09:27] <mwilson> Hm, dailies have evocrap 2.01
[09:27] <mwilson> 2.0.1, rather
[09:28] <mwilson> I was surprised that Ubuntu makes the decision to not use Epiphany in favor of Firefox, but doesn't replace Evolution with Thunderbird.
[09:29] <cybernout> evolution is different
[09:29] <mwilson> You were ignoring me.
[09:29] <cybernout> its more mature and stable
[09:29] <SuperLag> GAH
[09:29] <cybernout> but you can install whatever you like
[09:29] <|trey|> cybernout: debateable, certainly a slightly cleaner interface though  :)
[09:30] <mwilson> cybernout: Well, it's not the usable vs unusable thing that Firefox vs Epiphany is, but I can't imagine why anyone would use Evolution if Thunderbird would suit.
[09:30] <cybernout> does any of you use an bttv card?
[09:30] <mwilson> I despise them both equally, it just surprised me.
[09:31] <cybernout> i am trying to do scantv, but it fails
[09:31] <cybernout> vbi: open failed [/dev/vbi]
[09:31] <cybernout> open /dev/vbi: No such file or directory
[09:31] <cybernout> at this point
[09:31] <_ranman_> evo 2.0 == exchange..
[09:31] <cybernout> any clue's? to what could case the problem?
[09:31] <mwilson> cybernout: Welcome to the fun of a dynamic /dev
[09:32] <mwilson> Oh, does Ubuntu incorporate the exchange connector?  Didn't know that.
[09:32] <_ranman_> Yes..
[09:32] <Se7h> does anyone use gdesklets?
[09:32] <cybernout> mwilson : explain please..
[09:33] <|trey|> Se7h: yes
[09:33] <_ranman_> Not on ubuntu..
[09:33] <_ranman_> Se7h
[09:33] <Se7h> yes?
[09:33] <mwilson> cybernout: Ubuntu uses udev.
 does anyone use gdesklets?
[09:33] <_ranman_> I had a libtop dep problem..  was for _ranman_
[09:34] <|trey|> eh, he's on ignore too  :/
[09:34] <_ranman_> So I can say bad things about trey, and he will not see?
[09:35] <_ranman_> That is unfair..
[09:35] <mwilson> cybernout: So you're an unwilling participant in the "my /dev is emptier than yours" contest.
[09:35] <jedi> hehe
[09:35] <cybernout> well, no go ahead
[09:36] <mwilson> cybernout: Now you get to figure out what random incantation to udev/hotplug is necessary to get it to create the device nodes you need.
[09:36] <_ranman_> What is really funny is that I got ignored over a hole..
[09:36] <cybernout> i just installed it an hour ago
[09:36] <smeggy> hmm.. i thought warty was frozen?
[09:36] <smeggy> whats with all these updates appearing O.o
[09:36] <|trey|> smeggy: not yet
[09:37] <Se7h> aaah
[09:37] <smeggy> not yet?
[09:37] <cybernout> i came from knoppix ( with /dev/ filled )
[09:37] <Se7h> gdesklets uses xml
[09:37] <Se7h> ;P
[09:37] <Se7h> gkrellm is more simple
[09:37] <Se7h> ;P
[09:37] <mwilson> cybernout: My junk box has a bttv card in it... Ubuntu knew it was there but I didn't have any reason to try playing with it to see if it'd loaded support for it.
[09:38] <cybernout> ok, well xawtv works, but i need to manually insert all the frueq
[09:38] <|trey|> smeggy: October 6 is total freeze...
[09:38] <|trey|> so tomorrow  :)
[09:39] <|trey|> Uhh, 18th even
[09:39] <mwilson> I need to take that card out of there... it was for the PVR I never found a reason to build.
[09:39] <|trey|> Or 20th... although its under Oct 18th  :/
[09:39] <cybernout> but i could always import the list from debian, the test i am running is to see if ubuntu is usefull for first time users
[09:40] <|trey|> Says "FullFreeze"  :/
[09:40] <|trey|> Right now, all we're seeing is bug fixes etc...
[09:40] <cybernout> what kind of installer is used by ubuntu?
[09:41] <|trey|> Se7h: gdesklets looks nicer though  :)
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: It should be, as long as you have someone competent set it up for them... same as any other distribution.
[09:41] <|trey|> cybernout: d-i
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: It looks like d-i.
[09:41] <|trey|> cybernout: look at the screenshots linked to on the site... it shows every screen you will see..
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: So it has all of d-i's warts, like hardware detect that you can't disable.
[09:41] <Se7h> |trey| its looks is costomizeble
[09:41] <smeggy> ahh
[09:41] <smeggy> thanks |trey|
[09:42] <smeggy> it'd be nice if updates to things like firefox could still be provided after the freeze heh
[09:42] <|trey|> Se7h: to an extent, sure... I like the looks of the sysinfo gdesklet... I forget its name though... almost fullscreen here...
[09:42] <mwilson> Firefox changes THAT often?
[09:42] <mwilson> I don't use it, I don't pay attention to it.
[09:43] <cybernout> yes very often ( for security reasons right? )
[09:43] <smeggy> security amongst other things
[09:43] <cybernout> bug fixes etc
[09:43] <mwilson> Somehow I doubt it's all that often.
[09:44] <mwilson> Oh, yes, after all it's vitally important to switch out one X implementation for another that's almost exactly the same.
[09:44] <cybernout> hmm, armagetron ( the game ) has no sound...
[09:44] <smeggy> Yes! :D
[09:45] <smeggy> I just like the feeling that being up to date gives ;)

[09:45] <cybernout> i will have to make my own noise..:P
[09:45] <|trey|> smeggy: I just hate the feeling not being up to date brings... apt-get has spoiled me...
[09:45] <|trey|> cybernout: good luck with that  :)
[09:45] <|trey|> record it so you can laugh later  :)
[09:45] <smeggy> Same |trey|.. (damnit can't you get rid of the first |, its hard to type :P)
[09:46] <cybernout> vroooooooooom
[09:46] <|trey|> smeggy: nope... most other combo's are taken  :(
[09:46] <smeggy> bah :P
[09:46] <|trey|> smeggy: besides thats all you have to type usually, so its not so bad...
[09:47] <cybernout> all in all ubuntu is nice, really, but it can use some improvement ( dont all distro's? )
[09:47] <|trey|> cybernout: can't*
[09:47] <HrdwrBoB> cybernout: this is why the developers haven't stopped working on it :)
[09:47] <mwilson> cybernout: File bugs, then.
[09:47] <HrdwrBoB> anyway, bbl
[09:47] <|trey|> cybernout: true enough... its in a beta stage right now though...
[09:47] <smeggy> I think it really needs forums! :P
[09:48] <cybernout> then its rather good..if its an beta
[09:48] <|trey|> smeggy: its getting them  :)
[09:48] <smeggy> I know.
[09:48] <smeggy> But I'm impatient :P
[09:48] <|trey|> cybernout: what did you think "Preview Release" meant?  ;)
[09:48] <didar_real> hey people I have a question about shipit
[09:48] <cybernout> right now i am developing for knoppix..thats also alway's beta..:P
[09:48] <smeggy> who are the devs in here anyway? other than jdub..?
[09:48] <didar_real> could someone help me?
[09:49] <mwilson> Knoppix has developers?
[09:49] <cybernout> lots
[09:49] <smeggy> Just ask your question didar_real and if someone can help they will..
[09:49] <mwilson> Or people that'll admit to being developers for it?
[09:49] <didar_real> ok
[09:49] <mwilson> Surprising.
[09:49] <smeggy> lol
[09:49] <didar_real> I went to shipit.ubuntulinux.org and put in my Address
[09:49] <didar_real> ...for the CDs to be shipped
[09:49] <mwilson> Isn't that like admitting you're a Gentoo developer?
[09:49] <didar_real> How do I come to know of the status?
[09:50] <|trey|> cybernout: Ubuntu has a pretty good level of entry for Maintainers also... you may want to think about helping out  :)
[09:50] <smeggy> Gentoo is hilarious.
[09:50] <|trey|> didar_real: the day Ubuntu is released, they will ship.
[09:50] <smeggy> Its the most loved and hated distro in the free software world.
[09:50] <|trey|> smeggy: its really not though
[09:50] <didar_real> ohhhh, ok
[09:50] <didar_real> Thanks
[09:50] <smeggy> Its not?
[09:51] <cybernout> for an fast desktop use yoper
[09:51] <|trey|> smeggy: the people that talk about loving it are just bored waiting on something to compile... and those that hate it got sick of waiting for things to compile...
[09:51] <smeggy> lol |trey|
[09:51] <|trey|> cybernout: thats blasphemy!
[09:51] <cybernout> really ?
[09:51] <didar_real> Wow, this place seems to be like a school yard
[09:51] <smeggy> ubuntu is the fastest linux desktop I've had the pleasure of using/.
[09:52] <smeggy> didar_real, what do you mean?
[09:52] <|trey|> cybernout: most distro's contain the same types of speed tweaks yoper uses...
[09:52] <didar_real> No offence menat just a jibe :D
[09:52] <madduck> Mithrandir: found another bug in mailman. :)
[09:52] <cybernout> any way, thnx for the chat, i have to go to work
[09:52] <didar_real> everyone is one-upping their fav distros'
[09:52] <cybernout> bye and much luck with ubuntu..
[09:52] <smeggy> Is it just me, or does QT "feel" faster than GTK+?
[09:52] <cybernout> :)
[09:52] <didar_real> just the way "we
[09:53] <|trey|> didar_real: this is #ubuntu, any other distro simply shouldn't be brought up  ;)
[09:53] <cybernout> -linux=kernel - the rest is eye candy..:)
[09:53] <didar_real> kids"
[09:53] <didar_real> well, in the heat of the moment "Viva la RedHat 9"
[09:53] <|trey|> smeggy: its not just you... however you shouldn't notice it so much in Ubuntu... they utilize some arguments to speed up startup etc...
[09:54] <smeggy> I see.
[09:54] <|trey|> didar_real: so you like using dead distro's?
[09:54] <didar_real> nope I just like ruffling other people a lil bit ;)
[09:54] <calc> i like slackware 2 better ;)
[09:55] <didar_real> I use Woody now
[09:55] <|trey|> didar_real: I actually like Fedora... perhaps more then Ubuntu, but RH9 is long dead  :/
[09:55] <|trey|> FC1 is as good as dead
[09:55] <|trey|> didar_real: Woody will be dead soon too...
[09:55] <didar_real> Well, I found simple goof-ups in RH9
[09:55] <didar_real> ...init scripts
[09:55] <Wal> FC2 is winding down now 2
[09:55] <|trey|> calc: grr @ you... it won't complete intalling packages here  :(
[09:56] <didar_real> Tried FC1, was good but preferred Debian
[09:56] <|trey|> Wal: nah, it still has 6 months left to live  :)
[09:56] <calc> |trey|: i was using the amd64 version, maybe i386 is broken?
[09:56] <smeggy> and Fedora Legacy will support it after that ;)
[09:56] <didar_real> yep
[09:56] <|trey|> calc: don't know, wouldn't make much sense, but see no other reason...
[09:56] <didar_real> Its nice to have choices and toys to mess with!
[09:57] <|trey|> smeggy: Fedora Legacy is basically "Hey look, if you can't figure out how to burn a CD, just use this and shut up, thanks"
[09:57] <smeggy> lol
[09:57] <didar_real> BTW, I've been a RH bigot for 5 years
[09:57] <calc> i'm going to test a netinstall of ubuntu to see if it works now
[09:57] <|trey|> calc: if you find one, let me know  :)
[09:57] <smeggy> I haven't seriously used RH since 7.something
[09:58] <jedi> it was downhill from there
[09:58] <|trey|> I started with 7.3, used every version other then 9...
[09:58] <didar_real> RH after 7.3 just went "whacko"
[09:58] <smeggy> I went too shiny after 7.3
[09:58] <smeggy> *it
[09:58] <smeggy> I didnt go shiny
[09:58] <jedi> haha
[09:58] <smeggy> as much as Id like to be shiny..
[09:58] <|trey|> didar_real: blah... Bluecurve is only recently being realized on other distro's...
[09:58] <didar_real> and empty underneath
[09:59] <smeggy> hey! :`(
[09:59] <smeggy> i think my hair is receding
[09:59] <smeggy> dont make me sad
[09:59] <|trey|> didar_real: blah... I'm liking it more and more with every release  :/
[09:59] <jedi> smeggy: woops, sorry ;)
[09:59] <|trey|> Auto Configuration of LVM2 volumes is great imo
[10:00] <|trey|> and the amount it hides from the user is great for a desktop based distro...
[10:00] <didar_real> Well, when you have a Pentium 166 w/ 32Mb RAM you look for...
[10:00] <|trey|> Users get scared when they read some of the stuff the system is doing during boot... I've seen it.
[10:00] <didar_real> ...the simple things in life
[10:00] <|trey|> didar_real: ahh... yeah, I would get a sledge hammer to that box, and make my way to Fry's...
[10:01] <didar_real> hey! get away from my box >:-|
[10:01] <|trey|> Worst box in this house is a 633  :/
[10:01] <didar_real> Its got sentimental value
[10:01] <|trey|> didar_real: put it up on your wall or something then... it should be retired from use!
[10:02] <didar_real> nah, it will make a great router/firewall
[10:02] <SuperLag> why doe configuring an e-mail server have to be such a bitch
[10:02] <didar_real> which e-mail server would that be?
[10:02] <mwilson> SuperLag: It isn't, particularly... you just have to know what you're doing.
[10:03] <|trey|> eh, my router alone is a 233  :/
[10:03] <|trey|> Thats about the minimum I would contemplate if I was setting up a box to do the same thing...
[10:04] <didar_real> Well, I can watch video w/o sound with mplayer compiled from source with optimisations to warp 9 on this baby ;)
[10:04] <|trey|> P1 > P2 was pretty noticeable imo
[10:04] <lypie> hugely so
[10:04] <lypie> ppro was the big one
[10:04] <jedi> yeah
[10:04] <lypie> nothing compares arch change wise
[10:04] <lypie> apart from the athlon and x64 :)
[10:05] <lypie> (yer sure p4 and ia64 were impressive in the lab, but look at the costs...)
[10:05] <|trey|> lypie: I want to use an Opteron machine... AMD64 didn't impress though  :/
[10:05] <didar_real> how does P w/ HT compare with AMD64?
[10:06] <lypie> didar_real: for what?
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> hm
[10:06] <didar_real> thats Pentium with HT
[10:06] <calc> didar_real: amd64 is about 30% faster from what i recall in 64bit mode over a 32bit p4 w/ht
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> is it normal for ubuntu disk resizer to be 0% until it's fnished
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> finished
[10:06] <|trey|> didar_real: aboutt he same I'd say.. most software still doesn't really utilize the extra 32bits of data  :/
[10:06] <calc> i sold my p4/ht after getting athlon64
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> |trey| the main boinus is in the kernel
[10:06] <lypie> yer
[10:06] <didar_real> oh the usual...surfing, chatting, word-processing, compiling, video processing...etc, etc
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> bonus
[10:06] <lypie> super fast memcpy's
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> but it's significant
[10:07] <lypie> so make sure u have a properly optimised kernel :)
[10:07] <lypie> i guess that gcc doesn't make good use of it anyways
[10:07] <lypie> its not really known for good optimisation...
[10:07] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: I was using Debian's ia64 or whatever kernel ....
[10:07] <lypie> in any case. most applications use int and presume 32bit :)
[10:07] <Se7h> erg
[10:07] <Se7h> sorry to desturb
[10:07] <Se7h> lol
[10:07] <lypie> lol
[10:07] <Se7h> but....gdesklets
[10:07] <calc> lypie: the extra regs are where most of the performance come from
[10:07] <Se7h> i mean
[10:08] <lypie> calc: yup
[10:08] <Se7h> at the repository comes also with a "data"
[10:08] <mwilson> What *is* the big deal you have with gdesklets?
[10:08] <lypie> calc: means a 10-15% decrease in binary size
[10:08] <Se7h> gdesklets is running
[10:08] <didar_real> so you are saying I shoud go for p4/ht or AMD64? I'm confused! :(
[10:08] <lypie> calc: iow, massive improvement in code cache utilisation
[10:08] <Se7h> i dont know what to do now
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> didar_real amd64
[10:08] <lypie> didar_real: athlon
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> get a PCIe board
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> with a 939 socket
[10:09] <calc> didar_real: amd64, p4 are slower and use a hell of a lot more power
[10:09] <|trey|> Se7h: apt-get install gdesklets-data ... run it from menu once ... then run scripts in /usr/share/gdesklets/D[tab]
[10:09] <calc> didar_real: see the recent tech report article linked by anandtech/slashdot/etc
[10:09] <|trey|> I forget what that word is, but thats what I typed I think
[10:09] <lypie> they'll have a new motherboard for the 64 arch's within 6 months and then your investment will be worthless
[10:09] <lypie> just buy a freakishly cheap athlon
[10:09] <didar_real> yeah I did read that
[10:09] <lypie> or better. get two :P
[10:09] <_ranman_> Se7h: gdesklets are like that... Karamba is better.. Go to the folder that the gdesklets data was installed into, and Go to Display, then find which one that you want go into the folder and click on the display.
[10:09] <lypie> s/sc/s c/
[10:10] <didar_real> lypie: od point
[10:10] <Mithrandir> hi calc
[10:10] <didar_real> lypie: good point
[10:10] <calc> one of them is just a cpu laying on the floor though, need to get a box to put it in
[10:10] <calc> Mithrandir: hi
[10:10] <lypie> didar_real: :P
[10:10] <|trey|> Se7h: actually, I think its /usr/lib/gdesklets ... something like that... dpkg -L gdesklets-data... where most of it went...
[10:10] <mwilson> Karamba requires KDE, which kind of defeats the purpose.
[10:10] <lypie> mwilson: gnome sucks anyways. use kde :) :P
[10:10] <calc> Mithrandir: i'm testing out the ubuntu MSI change on my laptop to see how it goes
[10:10] <calc> gnome is better :)
[10:10] <mwilson> lypie: Why would I use either one?
[10:10] <didar_real> TWM RULEZ!!!!!
[10:10] <|trey|> calc: shut it
[10:10] <_ranman_> haha, I forgot that mwilson and trey are the local KDE bouncers..
[10:11] <lypie> mwilson: i'm a console user so :P
[10:11] <calc> but i don't know since i maintain kde :)
[10:11] <lypie> calc: :P
[10:11] <mwilson> How am I a "KDE bouncer"?
[10:11] <|trey|> calc: a kde maintainer should not say gnome is better in public [angryface]
[10:11] <Se7h> |trey| yeah, the data file i have it
[10:11] <calc> |trey|: heh
[10:11] <_ranman_> bounce anyone that speaks of KDE..
[10:11] <Se7h> ok i see the gdesklets files
[10:11] <didar_real> ooooh that was a major boo-boo
[10:11] <Se7h> but now, how do i run them '
[10:11] <Se7h> ?
[10:11] <lypie> |trey|: kde user then? :)
[10:12] <|trey|> Se7h: go there and start typing ./something/thescript
[10:12] <_ranman_> Se7h dounble click on a .desklets file..
[10:12] <jblack> trey: leaving asside the argument of whether kde or gnome is "better", its a flaw to not recognize the features of the other one in some misguided attempt for loyalty.
[10:12] <calc> it looks like the MSI fix fixed my laptop, so i will try to find out why the redhat kernel works fine with MSI
[10:12] <|trey|> lypie: I switch off between XFCE4, GNOME, KDE, and fluxbox  :/
[10:12] <lypie> |trey|: all nice :) though i don't really like xfce4 in fact
[10:13] <didar_real> IceWM works for me
[10:13] <lypie> jblack: nod
[10:13] <|trey|> lypie: fast GTK environment... with right click application menu  :)
[10:13] <calc> mdz: awake?
[10:13] <didar_real> I just fire up X for FreeCIV anyway
[10:13] <lypie> |trey|: yer seen it. just a bit too basic for me
[10:13] <mwilson> jblack: They have different focuses...  1) arts lets me specify the bitrate for my sound card, which is important because without the right bitrate, no sound from my docking station.
[10:15] <lypie> mwilson: i'm the kde coder thats read 20% of gnomes cvs
[10:15] <|trey|> lypie: wtg @ ignoring him  [angryface]
[10:15] <didar_real> mwilson: Thats what is "the new world order"
[10:15] <lypie> |trey|: how do i ignore in xchat ?
[10:15] <jblack> The other is that KDE has pretty good support for dualhead support. As far as I know, gnome hasn't gotten there yet.
[10:15] <_ranman_> uhoh, now lypie is speaking agains Gnome..   My mistake... I guess all the publicity they got about that was all in my mind.
[10:15] <|trey|> lypie: /ignore him all
[10:15] <lypie> ah :)
[10:15] <_ranman_> lypie, trey is using Gaim..
[10:15] <lypie> thanks |trey| :)
[10:16] <didar_real> battlestations everyone
[10:16] <lypie> is gaim a good irc prog?
[10:16] <|trey|> calc: it should find the volumes and use them correctly at least  :)
[10:16] <Treenaks> mwilson: which you could turn off if you wanted...
[10:16] <Wal> lypie no way
[10:16] <|trey|> lypie: its adequate, sure... depends how much of an IRC junkie you are  :)
[10:16] <Treenaks> mwilson: and which are way easier for new users
[10:16] <lypie> |trey|: i'm a irssi user usually :P
[10:16] <mwilson> Treenaks: How could you turn off what didn't exist, according to lypie?
[10:17] <Wal> |trey|, well said
[10:17] <lypie> ummm
[10:17] <lypie> lol
[10:17] <Treenaks> mwilson: don't complain, or don't use gnome.. it's easy
[10:17] <lypie> why am i seeing mwilson still?
[10:17] <Treenaks> lypie: /ignore nick all
[10:17] <lypie> xchat seriously sucks
[10:17] <lypie> Treenaks: i did :|
[10:17] <mwilson> Treenaks: Not complaining, it's a simple statement of fact.
[10:17] <lypie>  mwilson added to ignore list.
[10:17] <didar_real> gotta go ...was nice chatting with you all
[10:17] <didar_real> bye
[10:17] <lypie> but it didn't work...
[10:17] <Treenaks> mwilson: it sounds like complaining to me
[10:17] <afreak> mwilson, whiner
[10:17] <jblack> mwilson: Something doesn't become a fact just because you say its a fact. ;)
[10:17] <_ranman_> Treenaks, mwilson == Gnome, && lypie == KDE..
[10:18] <|trey|> lypie: but how much of its features do you use? if you only use basic commands, and don't utilize scripts... gaim's irc will function just fine... and it has the added bonus of adding IRC users to your contact list...
[10:18] <Wal> doesnt have any scripting fectures
[10:18] <mwilson> _ranman_: Excuse me?
[10:18] <lypie> _ranman_: i know the facts he reads the publicists :)
[10:18] <calc> cool it does use real MB which really makes it confusing for newbies which see the regular partition program which uses the ieee bullshit
[10:18] <Wal> next well have emacs and vi users at each other in here
[10:18] <lypie> |trey|: i don't script at all. just need multiple windows and good completion
[10:18] <lypie> EMACS SUCKS
[10:18] <_ranman_> haha, Can't people just learn that choices are good...
[10:18] <calc> so my 7.5gb /home shows as 8.0 GB in the partition manager :)
[10:18] <jblack> wal: Nah.  Gnome is about technical excellence, KDE is about moron-appeal."
 Don't associate me with that line!
[10:21] <lypie> but so is kde
[10:22] <lypie> jblack: sorry
[10:22] <mwilson> I'm sure those devs will be happy to hear THAT.
[10:22] <lypie> i put the mwilson at the start
[10:22] <|trey|> GNOME is about a dumbed down interface... hiding things from users so they don't waste time... KDE can be overwhelming, but only for those that are a little retarded...
[10:22] <jblack> lypie: Grin. :)
[10:22] <lypie> mwilson: dimwit. i chat to most of the gnome devels
[10:22] <Wal> one uses qt and the other uses gtk - there are awesome apps in both camps i reckon
[10:22] <lypie> Wal: yup :)
[10:22] <mwilson> lypie: You're the one who said it, not me.   Gnome is not about excellence?  OMG!!!!
[10:22] <lypie> and gnome 2.8 has some majorly nice stuff :)
[10:23] <lypie> mwilson: i was just being annoying while u seem to actually believe yourself :P
[10:23] <|trey|> Wal: indeed... gtk2-engines-qt-gkt creates a pretty good marriage of the two also...
[10:23] <jblack> lypie: What's the neat stuff that 2.8 has?
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: well its fast :P
[10:23] <Wal> im gnome user and k3b for me as cdr program is awesome
[10:23] <jblack> lypie: Yeah. That I noticed.
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: and i love the new nautilus style actaully
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: they really cleaned it up
[10:23] <mwilson> lypie: So I shouldn't believe myself when I say that Gnome is about excellence, then?
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: i'm an amiga user
[10:23] <|trey|> Usually, when I use Debian...   Everything stinks for twm. We all need to go back to the basics.
[10:26] <xcasex> Wal, ah you're that sort of user, i burn the occasional cd :)
[10:26] <calc> azeem: i had to do that, since make clean didn't work, and in the past != didn't work either, much fun
[10:26] <mwilson> Why is it that everyone else comes up with the nonsense?
[10:26] <xcasex> mwilson, did you forget to take your ritalin this morning?
[10:26] <daKirsch> i have a question: are there missing symlinks on the ubuntu ftp? i had to change a line in the 'current' warty-i368.jigdo in order to get it work. i changed the mirror to http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool
[10:26] <lypie> hehe
[10:26] <Wal> xcasex, im not that bad :lol:
[10:26] <|trey|> azeem: not when mwilson is around... he will respond to anything directed at him... and never shut up about it...
[10:27] <xcasex> wal, hehee ;)
[10:27] <HrdwrBoB> daKirsch if there is, file a bugreport :)
[10:27] <mwilson> xcasex: Apparently excellence is a bad thing, if you belive everyone here.
[10:27] <lypie> mwilson: you smell of poo
[10:27] <|trey|> azeem: ~3 years of seeing this dude @ work in #debian  :/
[10:27] <|trey|> lypie: no personal attacks, thanks
[10:27] <jblack> Cut out filesystem browsers and bouncing icons, and nautilus and kde-wallet, and mozilla and everything. Lets just go back to text files and twm. We'll save gobs on memory, right mwilson?
[10:27] <xcasex> mwilson, *grin*
[10:27] <daKirsch> never did this before :> it's not that hard, is it?
[10:27] <lypie> |trey|: i wanted to prove your point right
[10:27] <lypie> |trey|: wanted to see him defend his smell :P
[10:27] <mwilson> jblack: Funny, haven't promoted that idea at all.
[10:27] <azeem> jblack: ion, not twm
[10:27] <Wal> xcasex, more using it copying my mates fedora cds in the last week
[10:28] <|trey|> lypie: eh, no need  :/
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> daKirsch no, it's pretty easy, if you get it wrong people will just redirect it to the right person etc
[10:28] <xcasex> Wal, oh, well if you have nautilus running it's just a rightclick away :)
[10:28] <jblack> mwilson: No, but why haven't you?
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> posting a bug to the wrong person or area is not perfect but it's better than none at all
[10:28] <mwilson> jblack: Why would I, when I don't agree with it?
[10:28] <daKirsch> ok thanks. i'll give it a try
[10:28] <Wal> xcasex, lol ;)
[10:28] <jblack> You don't? What would you agree with, then? \
[10:28] <daKirsch> bye
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> "posting bugs helps everyone"
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> quote, unquote
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> catch
[10:28] <daKirsch> *g*
[10:30] <mwilson> jblack: Hm?
[10:30] <lypanov> la la la
[10:30] <jblack> mwilson: If you don't agree with that, what would you agree with?
[10:31] <lypanov> jblack: disagreement :)
[10:31] <jblack> That there's several skilled teams all working very hard to ease desktop management?
[10:31] <jamesh> hi jblack
[10:31] <lypanov> neato. gaim has cute icons :P
[10:32] <xcasex> lypanov, and a nasty listview ;_;
[10:32] <mwilson> jblack: When did I say I didn't agree with that?  Or did?  In this conversation, I've had people label me as a Gnome-hater, a Gnome-lover, a KDE-hater, and a KDE-lover, and the only thing I did was make a statement about the goals of the respective projects.  Personally, I don't use either one.
[10:32] <lypanov> xcasex: its all cute :P
[10:33] <jblack> mwilson: I'm not asking if you disagree. I'm asking if you agree. :)
[10:33] <xcasex> lypanov, no, proteus is cute, gaim's just nasty ;)
[10:33] <xcasex> mwilson, jblack  kiss and make up :)
[10:33] <lypanov> mwilson: you insulted me (in)directly via your unneeded comment on gnome vs kde's technical excellence. and now you continue to argue your points by confusing all but yourself. give it a rest k?
[10:33] <jblack> xcasex: What for? I don't think we're fighting.
[10:33] <mwilson> jblack: I do believe that KDE will do things to suit the users, at the expense of technical merit, while Gnome will do the reverse.  That's opinion, and people are free to disagree with it.  It's not FUD, it's merely opinion.
[10:33] <lypanov> xcasex: proteus? :P gtk2 also?
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> anyone who wants to talk about KDE
[10:34] <xcasex> lypanov, hehe, hehehe, no *cough* osx *cough*
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> can go to #kde
[10:34] <lypanov> xcasex: dang it :P
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> or #ubuntukde
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> or #ihatekde
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> please yourself
[10:34] <xcasex> jblack, darn, i wanted to see a little raunchyness :(
[10:34] <lypanov> lol
[10:34] <lypanov> poor xcasex
[10:35] <xcasex> lypanov, you have no idea ;_;
[10:35] <lypanov> i like gaim :)
[10:35] <lypanov> its all cute :)
[10:35] <calc> seb128: hi
[10:36] <seb128> hey calc
[10:37] <|trey|> Someone remind me later to bitch at HrdwrBoB about BitchX
[10:37] <lypanov> hehe
[10:37] <lypanov> |trey|: thx for suggestion i really like this :)
[10:37] <|trey|> The part messages are annoying  [angryface]
[10:37] <|trey|> lypanov: what I recommend?
[10:38] <lypanov> |trey|: gaim i think :P
[10:38] <lypanov> any fast console's for gnome?
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: ohh... hmm, the devs are really friendly too  :)
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: no
[10:38] <lypanov> arse :(
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: they are all about as slow as gnome-terminal-emulator
[10:38] <lypanov> :(
[10:39] <lypanov> its soooo sllloowwwww
[10:39] <|trey|> with on a side note, really really needs a new name, thats a pain to type
[10:39] <lypanov> yup
[10:39] <|trey|> witch*
[10:39] <lypanov> as everything starts with gnome-
[10:39] <|trey|> should be gnome-console though  :/
[10:39] <|trey|> much easier to type  :/
[10:39] <lypanov> yup
[10:39] <lypanov> well its gnome-terminal here rather than gnome-terminal-emulator in fact
[10:40] <lypanov> anyways. konsole is much faster
[10:40] <lypanov> but its kinda ugly compared to gnome-terminal :|
[10:40] <jblack> There's some sort of edge case in gnome-terminal.
[10:40] <lypanov> but then gnome-terminal is freaking buggy
[10:40] <lypanov> i keep on getting a full blue screen :|
[10:40] <jblack> Affects nobody but me. I can't get a gnome terminal to run more than 20 minutes before I crash it.
[10:40] <subterrific> there is Terminal from xfce or whatever
[10:40] <lypanov> jblack: it affects me too don't worry
[10:40] <subterrific> looks almost exactly like gnome-term
[10:40] <jblack> oh, really?
[10:40] <lypanov> subterrific: fast?
[10:41] <subterrific> dunno, never tried it
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: yeah. crashed it 3 times yesterday
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: its awful
[10:41] <|trey|> subterrific: that just runs x-terminal-emulator with a little wrapper that appears to do nothing at all...
[10:41] <subterrific> i'm fine with gnome-term, i've got nice fast machines
[10:41] <kremlyn> just run aterm.
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: erm. not crashes in fact
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: infinite loops
[10:41] <jblack> lypanov: Do you tend to switch windows rapidly with both the keyboard and mouse at the same time?
[10:41] <opi^work> re
[10:41] <|trey|> kremlyn: bah... anything resembling motif in any way just isn't used on my box.
[10:41] <|trey|> Its like a rule or something...
[10:41] <kremlyn> lol
[10:41] <subterrific> |trey|: are you sure? i saw screenshots and it has tabbed terms and a huge preferences window
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: i use alt-n all the time but use alt-tab to switch windows
[10:42] <kremlyn> why?
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: i run screen and irssi and zsh
[10:42] <|trey|> subterrific: very... at least from 4.0.x
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: and it keeps going blue so i'm forced to press ctrl-l
[10:42] <|trey|> maybe they actually wrote a terminal for 4.2.x, doubt it though...
[10:42] <calc> btw ubuntu works with only /boot outside lvm
[10:42] <calc> i just installed it to see
[10:42] <lypanov> calc: nice
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: i was thinking of setting my home machine up with lvm
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: how on earth do i setup lvm? :P
[10:43] <calc> it warns you that / must be outside of lvm but works anyway
[10:43] <|trey|> calc: /boot can't go in an LVM2 volume, everyone knows that  :)
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: (from within the installer or?)
[10:43] <hazmat> does totem/gstreamer actually work for anyone?
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: it plays nothing here
[10:43] <hazmat> its been entirely useless here
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: no video's work at least
[10:43] <calc> lypanov: its easy, just create a /boot partition and a lvm partition then add groups and volumes
[10:43] <|trey|> calc: grub can't recognize LVM2 volumes afaik
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: try gst-register
[10:43] <_ranman_> totem, is completely useless
[10:43] <jblack> I've never gotten totem to work. I've bene using xine instead
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: that made the sound work
[10:43] <hazmat> aha
[10:43] <lypanov> does xine work well these days?
[10:43] <opi^work> gxine/mplayer :)
[10:44] <lypanov> it used to crash all the time :(
[10:44] <calc> |trey|: yes i know /boot has to be outside it says all of / needs to be outside but doesn't have to be
[10:44] <opi^work> lydickaw: quite nice
[10:44] <jblack> lypanov: Its been working reliably for me on ubuntu.
[10:44] <lypanov> oh. whats the apt.sources line for mplayer?
[10:44] <hazmat> xine and mplayer worked well last i tried with gentoo..
[10:44] <opi^work> lydickaw: try gxine, you'll have GTK face :)
[10:44] <|trey|> _ranman_: totem-gstreamer kinda is... apt-get install totem-xine + ffmpeg and w32codecs from marillat...
[10:44] <lypanov> opi^work: k i'll give it a go :)
[10:44] <|trey|> calc: look at how Fedora did it  ;)
[10:44] <lypanov> |trey|: whats the marillat line?
[10:44] <calc> lypanov: d-i makes it fairly simple to setup, i set it up first under fedora fc3t2 then tried it in d-i
[10:44] <_ranman_> ??? I thought that I was ignored?
[10:44] <_ranman_> ic..
[10:44] <calc> |trey|: yea fedora sticks / in lvm
[10:45] <opi^work> lydickaw: it's a .fr host with .deb that has all win32 codecs ;p
[10:45] <|trey|> _ranman_: took you off when mwilson was getting enough attention for his ignore status to be annoying...
[10:45] <lypanov> opi^work: yeah. whats the url though? :P
[10:45] <opi^work> but I prefer to fetch stuff from mplyaerhq and compile it
[10:45] <calc> |trey|: point being the text in d-i probably could use updating since / works inside a lvm and it states it will not
[10:45] <_ranman_> ic.. haha
[10:45] <opi^work> lydickaw: d'oh, try google with mplayer debian ;P
[10:45] <|trey|> calc: #debian-boot would be a better place to say that  :)
[10:45] <calc> yea :)
[10:46] <lypanov> umm
[10:46] <lypanov> does firefox have "g blah" (opera) or "gg:blah" (konqi)?
[10:46] <opi^work> URL shortcuts?
[10:46] <lypanov> yup
[10:46] <opi^work> dunno :)
[10:46] <|trey|> lypanov: not in its base form, no... it has a google search thingy in the toolbar though...
[10:46] <opi^work> but it has google input box :P
[10:46] <jamesh> lypanov: you can set up any keywords you want to.
[10:46] <lypanov> oh. it works :)
[10:47] <|trey|> There is an extension that allows for g:blahsomething though
[10:47] <lypanov> the google search thingy is tiny though :(
[10:47] <Treenaks> lypanov: doesn't matter, you can type all you want in it
[10:47] <jamesh> lypanov: go to a website, and right click on an entry field and choose "Add a keyword for this search"
[10:47] <lypanov> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[10:47] <lypanov> this one ^
[10:47] <opi^work> hrmm
[10:47] <jamesh> lypanov: if you set the keyword to "foo", you can type "foo search terms" and it will do the search.
[10:47] <|trey|> lypanov: you looking for a yes or no?
[10:48] <lypanov> eeek
[10:48] <opi^work> lypanov: apt-get.org would get you there ;)
[10:48] <lypanov> jamesh: *sweeeeeeeeeeeeet*
[10:48] <SuperLag> lypanov: why would it, when it has a Google search window right there??
[10:48] <lypanov> |trey|: yer :P
[10:48] <lypanov> SuperLag: 1) way too small, 2) how the heck do i get there easily?
[10:48] <|trey|> lypanov: then yes... he is a debian developer, so his packages are safe...
[10:48] <lypanov> oohh
[10:48] <lypanov> f7 is sweet
[10:48] <Treenaks> lypanov: F6, <tab> :)
[10:48] <lypanov> ah
[10:49] <lypanov> thx Treenaks :)
[10:49] <|trey|> add them, and type apt-get install totem-xine ffmpeg w32codecs
[10:49] <subterrific> http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=40
[10:49] <subterrific> thats what i was talking about
[10:49] <Treenaks> lypanov: F6 highlights your URL bar
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: yer. same in konqi :)
[10:49] <subterrific> thats a term app for Xfce
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: copied from ie i guess :P
[10:49] <Treenaks> lypanov: and IE6 even :)
[10:49] <lypanov> hehe
[10:49] <Treenaks> but most people don't know about it
[10:49] <stevedeo> Anyone in here managed to get MonoDevelop running from tseng's packages?
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: i do :$ thats the worst part :$
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: just didn't try it yet :$
[10:49] <opi^work> Treenaks: people mostny don't use keyboard ;(
[10:49] <tortoise__> is there a gnome version of kde's fish?
[10:50] <lypanov> tortoise__: i wondered the same
[10:50] <|trey|> tortoise__: yes
[10:50] <opi^work> what's fish? :)
[10:50] <lypanov> opi^work: kio slave that allows you to ssh somewhere and look at the dir content in your file manager :)
[10:50] <|trey|> right click panel >> add to panel >> fish
[10:50] <tortoise__> not that fish!
[10:50] <subterrific> lypanov: http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=40
[10:50] <opi^work> lydickaw: nice
[10:50] <|trey|> There is also a fish you can have swim around your screen... I forget what you type for that though...
[10:50] <joem> file-connect to server in nautilus
[10:51] <opi^work> lypanov: nice, haven't use it ;)
[10:51] <lypanov> |trey|: read my line, fish: is something different :P
[10:51] <|trey|> something like: free the fishes name
[10:51] <_ranman_> lypanov nautilus does this?
[10:51] <lypanov> _ranman_: i only know that konqi does this
[10:51] <lypanov> _ranman_: i wonder how to do it with nautilus
[10:51] <|trey|> lypanov: ahh... my bad... umm... tsclient isn't what you want? allows ssh etc...
[10:52] <lypanov> joem: ah :)
[10:52] <joem> :)
[10:52] <_ranman_> if you are using ubuntu, then go to computer:/// and the connect to server is under file..
[10:52] <_ranman_> lypanov ^
[10:52] <joem> its under file in any nautilus window
[10:53] <lypanov> doesn't work here  :(
[10:53] <_ranman_> It is not there, when you are in home directory..
[10:54] <_ranman_> hold on, I will check my home..
[10:54] <|trey|> _ranman_: it is here...
[10:54] <joem> every nautilus window has a file menu
[10:54] <lypanov> :|
[10:54] <lypanov> it just does nothing
[10:54] <lypanov> |trey|: is that what you mean?
[10:54] <_ranman_> joem, but the connect to server is not always there..
[10:54] <_ranman_> It is a ghost..
[10:54] <joem> is here
[10:54] <hazmat> lypanov, the suggestion from #dev was to install totem-xine
[10:55] <hazmat> lypanov, its not in base because of patent/licensing issues
[10:55] <|trey|> hazmat: wtf, the devs made there own channel?  [angryface]
[10:56] <_ranman_> lyponov, it worked for me.. But you must view the tree on the left... Used SSH
[10:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> it makes sense they would have their own channel - when doing development you dont want to deal with the clutter of a support channel all the time
[10:56] <lypanov> _ranman_: i've got a window here saying "creating properies window... you can stop this by pressing cancel"
[10:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> they probably work in both channels
[10:56] <lypanov> _ranman_: its sure as hell not connecting to my server :/
[10:57] <tortoise__> _ranman_ nor mine
[10:57] <lypanov> lol
[10:57] <joem> or the clutter of everybodys petty arguments..
[10:57] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: imo, such things shouldn't even be on IRC... but if it must be, others lacking technical knowhow should at least have input...
[10:57] <mkyc-ubuntu> that too
[10:57] <lypanov> and now nautilus crashed
[10:57] <lypanov> oh
[10:57] <lypanov> and again
[10:57] <|trey|> We use the system after all...
[10:57] <_ranman_> creating properties ??? That is not what I got,,,, I got the password dialog...
[10:57] <lypanov> _ranman_: it never appears here :(
[10:57] <_ranman_> hmmm, maybe because I am in Taiwan..
[10:58] <tortoise__> lypanov: mine did that first time but worked the second
[10:58] <|trey|> lypanov: just for shits and giggles... dpkg -l sshd
[10:58] <|trey|> I think thats the package name..
[10:58] <|trey|> its not installed by default
[10:58] <lypanov> |trey|: i'm ssh'ing to a different server :P
[10:58] <fabbione> openssh-server
[10:58] <|trey|> I wasn't even close [scar]
[10:58] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes |trey| and when its released they will ask for help not when they are developing it. IRC is a good place for communicaition for people doing that sort of work but its not somewhere you want non devs, if you want to help out theyre always looking for developers so why not volunteer :)
[10:59] <fabbione> |trey|: anyway you shouldn't be woried about a #dev channel
[10:59] <fabbione> we all sit on both chans
[10:59] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: because I suck @ code  :/
[10:59] <lypanov> just as long as you don't go the way of gentoo :)
[10:59] <mkyc-ubuntu> i think that sort of makes my point |trey| :)
[10:59] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: so because I can't code, I can't make suggestions?
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> sure you can
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> in here
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> or via the many other avenues that exist in the website or wiki
[11:00] <fabbione> |trey|: the #dev chan is free and open
[11:00] <crimsun> and there's bugzilla, too, or the mailing lists
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> there you go, jump on in
[11:01] <|trey|> fabbione: its not #ubuntu-dev or #dev, so y'all appear to want it to be hard to find  :/
[11:01] <fabbione> |trey|: everybody can join, but the topic is development and not help/support. Everybody with that clear idea in mind is more than welcome to join
[11:01] <fabbione> #ubuntu-devel
[11:01] <lonewolff> morning all
[11:01] <fabbione> |trey|: it's not a secret channel
[11:01] <fabbione> or nothing
[11:01] <lonewolff> i wonder if anyone can help me, i seem to have lost the ability to open things by double clicking on them in gnome
[11:02] <|trey|> fabbione: in devel channels, I am fairly quiet... just like to take part in discussions that interest me  :)
[11:02] <tortoise__> how do i install media codec for rhythmbox, it cant even play mp3
[11:02] <joem> tortoise__, gstreamer-mad
[11:02] <mkyc-ubuntu> personally as a non programmer i cant think of anything more boring to me than a #dev channell
[11:02] <|trey|> tortoise__: what joem said is mp3... apt-get.org -> search for "w32codecs" to get the rest...
[11:02] <mkyc-ubuntu> well with the exception of budget meetings :)
[11:03] <aes> mkyc-ubuntu: risk assessments.
[11:03] <tortoise__> joem,|trey|: thanks
[11:03] <_ranman_> haha, aes is right on the money..
[11:03] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: desktop oriented devel channels can be quite interesting... also, they are the truely knowledgable, so you learn a lot...
[11:03] <mkyc-ubuntu> aes : ERP project meetings
[11:04] <|trey|> regular channels are boring sometimes... helping morons gets old  :/
[11:04] <aes> mkyc-ubuntu: ok, so a few things are more boring then :)
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> aes yeah seems so
[11:04] <_ranman_> mkyc-ubuntu: risk assesments is clearly the winner..
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> yeah i agree on that - risk assessments suck
[11:05] <mkyc-ubuntu> i have used the term myself today already :)
[11:05] <_ranman_> Stripping a whole billing system down to tiny hardware components coming up with Time to Failure reports is the worst sort of torture..
[11:06] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: actually, its a good attitude... if you assume they know too much, it will bite you in the butt more often then not..
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol so true
[11:06] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: 2 years of tech support  :)
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> _ranman_, whats worse is doing that only to be told the budget doesnt exist to implement the required safeguards
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> |trey|, 10 years here.. i am truly insane now
[11:07] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: umm, ouch... hah, thats half my life time  :)
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> scary isnt it
[11:07] <_ranman_> No, I am in Taiwan, I do not have to worry about safeguards, or security.. haha
[11:07] <|trey|> very  :(
[11:07] <|trey|> I was in elementary school I think, if that  :(
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> now i feel very very old
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> hell im only 35
[11:07] <lypanov> what does "blah blah have been kept back" mean?
[11:07] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: haha, I'm sorry  :)
[11:08] <lypanov> (apt-get)
[11:08] <|trey|> I'm almost half your age though  :)
[11:08] <opi^work> im only 24 and I feel very very old ;)
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:08] <_ranman_> ic... Trey is young.. Understand why sensitive..
[11:08] <lypanov> opi^work: snap
[11:08] <opi^work> comuters sucks life out of you :)
[11:08] <|trey|> lypanov: means it will change the database in some way... usually a new package is required etc...
[11:08] <_ranman_> I am 34, and the average coworker is 21...
[11:08] <Se7h> question: where is the system log ?
[11:08] <_ranman_> /var/log
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> funnily enough i just started with a new company where my staff are all my age, makes a change to kiddies :)
[11:09] <|trey|> lypanov: sometimes it means there is a major change in the configuration also...
[11:09] <|trey|> Se7h: /var/log
[11:09] <_ranman_> haha, you are lucky..............................
[11:09] <Se7h> thanks
[11:09] <|trey|> Se7h: umm, no idea where the pretty gnome interface for it is though  :/
[11:09] <mkyc-ubuntu> computers dont suck life out its the people who use computers who do it :)
[11:10] <_ranman_> gnome-logview, If that is the latest name for it.
[11:10] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: agreed
[11:10] <_ranman_> trey^
[11:10] <opi^work> i prefer tail -F /file
[11:10] <|trey|> gnome-system-log
[11:10] <opi^work> There's a nice toy that works as stdio and its transparent :)
[11:10] <opi^work> so you can watch your logs while you work
[11:11] <opi^work> I can't recall name, I'll as my sysadmin, when he'll be back
[11:11] <|trey|> _ranman_: I was being sarcastic... whenever I say things like "pretty" in relation to software, I am being sarcastic  :)
[11:11] <|trey|> Enless I am talking about KDE, but that shouldn't happen much here  :)
[11:11] <_ranman_> I did not say it was pretty... Just the name... ;)
[11:11] <|trey|> _ranman_: I did though  ;)
[11:12] <|trey|> and its not the name  8)
[11:12] <_ranman_> I never use it.. I agree with opi, that tail -f is sufficient..
[11:12] <|trey|> _ranman_: psst, case is important  :/
[11:13] <|trey|> umm, or not  :/
[11:13] <opi^work> |trey|: everyones knows that it's -F ;D
[11:13] <calc> syslog output should be standardized and in xml format so logviewers can parse them better and add pretty colors :)
[11:13] <opi^work> calc: xmlsucks.com
[11:13] <|trey|> opi^work: would appear to be both... I should try reading more man pages...
[11:13] <crimsun> xml is great
[11:14] <_ranman_> hmmm, I use -f...
[11:14] <|trey|> calc: things like logs shouldn't need pretty colors
[11:14] <|trey|> _ranman_: its the same thing... man tail
[11:15] <|trey|> 8)
[11:15] <opi^work> and logs should be READABLE with less
[11:15] <opi^work> tail and cat
[11:15] <opi^work> XML need parser
[11:15] <|trey|> cat is not useful for logs...
[11:15] <_ranman_> ic... -F is also --retry ..
[11:15] <opi^work> so if parser will fail, you're doomed ;-)
[11:15] <|trey|> _ranman_: both are --retry   :)
[11:16] <opi^work> |trey|: it's just an example ;-)
[11:16] <_ranman_> no -f is no retry, just --follow..
[11:16] <_ranman_> opi started a new discussion..
[11:16] <opi^work> sorry, I shouldn't form topics ;)
[11:16] <opi^work> form/fork
[11:16] <_ranman_> At least it is not about KDE..
[11:16] <|trey|> opi^work: its quite alright @ this time of day  :)
[11:17] <LoneTech> hello
[11:18] <|trey|> LoneTech: need help?
[11:18] <calc> hell if log files were in XML there would never be any problems to log anymore since XML solves everything ;)
[11:19] <opi^work> calc: it even do my dishes
[11:19] <LoneTech> not really. I just noticed a detail in the wiki I was wondering about..
[11:19] <opi^work> calc: take dog on walk
[11:19] <_ranman_> XML solved my marriage problems..
[11:19] <hazmat> how does debian deal with a package if you've changed aa package's existing configuration? for example some files under /etc
[11:19] <jblack> calc: If logs were in xml, and all the problems were solved, then we wouldn't need logs any more.
[11:19] <opi^work> hazmat: asks
[11:19] <|trey|> ugh @ ubuntu not supporting gstreamer-mad too  [angryface]
[11:19] <opi^work> hazmat: do you want to keep old, install new, see diffs
[11:20] <_ranman_> hazmat:It will ask if you wish to replace or keep the new config..
[11:20] <calc> jblack: so lets just get rid of logging! :)
[11:20] <hazmat> cool, thanks
[11:20] <LoneTech> the warty "supported seed" page calls setserial old. It's a rather essential tool on my laptop, as the IR port must be disabled with setserial for the FIR module to load. If there isn't a replacement for setserial I'd like to see it remain.
[11:20] <crimsun> |trey|: true, but one can get by with universe ;)
[11:20] <|trey|> damnit... why can Debian keep mp3 support, but no one else dare? Debian has a reputation of being the most anal distro around about such topics
[11:20] <jblack> calc: Yeah! Why not! Nobody reads 'em anyways. :)
[11:20] <opi^work> calc: yeah, let's log to /dev/null
[11:20] <opi^work> or, better /dev/audio
[11:20] <opi^work> you could dance to hackers ;)
[11:20] <jblack> Heh. "My computer sounds sweet!"
[11:21] <_ranman_> jblack needs to get out more..
[11:21] <|trey|> crimsun: I suppose, but Ubuntu will now share Fedora's bad wrap on the subject... yay
[11:21] <calc> |trey|: Debian takes the stand that since everything is covered by patents, only get rid of things that are being actively enforced
[11:21] <jblack> ranman: Working at home is a very solitary thing.
[11:21] <calc> and mp3 playback is not actively enforced
[11:21] <calc> mp3 encoding is and thus lame is not in debian
[11:22] <_ranman_> haha, ic..
[11:22] <jblack> ranman: But its worth it.
[11:22] <lypanov> gnome2 is all soo cuuteeee
[11:22] <lypanov> |trey|: what were the 3 pkgs i needed to install?
[11:22] <lypanov> totem-xine crashes on me :(
[11:23] <lypanov> mplayer won't go full screen when i press f :(
[11:23] <|trey|> calc: makes sense, but still annoying from a user perspective... oh well, if they get EVERYTHING that users install from the non-free realm (java flash all codecs etc) then it will appease us  :)
[11:23] <nate> hmm
[11:23] <|trey|> lypanov: totem-xine ffmpeg w32codecs
[11:24] <calc> aiui valgrind is heavily covered by patents but fedora includes it (from what i remember)
[11:24] <|trey|> realsm *into universe
[11:24] <|trey|> realm*
[11:24] <calc> and now java is patented so we need to rip all of that out
[11:24] <nate> yow, 54 MB of updates since yesterday
[11:24] <LoneTech> erm, reacting differently to repeated presses of a button is patented too.
[11:24] <nate> does that sound right?
[11:24] <jblack> (re: ubuntu) : 05:24 < kernel_panic> not trying to blab so much but  i installed it in vmware and i
[11:25] <jblack>                       have to say it was fast as hell even in there
[11:25] <|trey|> calc: Fedora is starting to get more and more java packages... all compiled with gcj... wonder if that includes a useful (read works with browsers) jre?
[11:26] <|trey|> LoneTech: wtf?
[11:26] <nate> hmm, where's kaffe at these days?
[11:26] <_ranman_> trey: that is old news...
[11:26] <|trey|> _ranman_: blah... read the question part.
[11:27] <|trey|> ugh, second user using a kde irc client I have seen  [pissedoffface]
[11:28] <|trey|> [confusedface]
[11:28] <LoneTech> I guess those tags are replaced with pictures in some client?
[11:28] <|trey|> _ranman_: ps, I don't recall them including any java packages in FC2, so its still a new thing...
[11:29] <|trey|> LoneTech: what tags?
[11:29] <LoneTech> those you output: pissedoffface, confusedface.  within [ and ]
[11:29] <mjr> IIRC there's a gcj(gci?)-browser-plugin but it didn't do any bytecode verifying last I checked so not that useful. (Might've changed, I dunno)
[11:29] <|trey|> LoneTech: mine? umm, no, hence the discriptive nature... >:-\ isn't peticularly enlightening to me  :/
[11:30] <LoneTech> ah
[11:32] <|trey|> (got a 97% in the class, 3 points dropped cuz of attendance...
[11:32] <_ranman_> trey: my comment before was in regards to the clicking...
[11:32] <|trey|> _ranman_: oh... blah
[11:32] <Iorek> hey all...anybody know how to install some win codecs?
[11:33] <|trey|> Iorek: go to apt-get.org... search for w32codecs... get it from the source that states "marillat"
[11:33] <lypanov> Iorek: apt-get install win32codecs
[11:33] <lypanov> "deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main"
[11:33] <|trey|> lypanov: w32codecs*
[11:33] <lypanov> oops yer
[11:34] <lypanov> i installed the right one at least :P
[11:34] <lypanov> """
[11:34] <|trey|> :)
[11:34] <Iorek> trey, lypanov, thanks ;)
[11:34] <lypanov> not nice :(
[11:34] <|trey|> Iorek: lazy bastard  ;)
[11:34] <lypanov> :
[11:34] <lypanov> The program 'totem' received an X Window System error.
[11:34] <lypanov> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[11:34] <lypanov> The error was 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)'.
[11:34] <lypanov> totem crashes :(
[11:34] <lypanov> mplayer doesn't work :(
[11:35] <_ranman_> That is what totem, is supposed to do right?
[11:35] <|trey|> lypanov: mplayer-nogui?
[11:35] <Iorek> trey I'm LEARNING :P
[11:35] <nate> When does Warty go gold?
[11:35] <|trey|> nate: late October (28th I think)
[11:35] <Iorek> October 20th
[11:35] <nate> aha
[11:35] <nate> guess we're going to give it a pretty good shakedown then
[11:35] <Iorek> said 20th on distrowatch, I think. Could be 28th :)
[11:35] <|trey|> Iorek: no, thats when final freeze occures... released almost a week later (anyone that wants to explain that please try)
[11:35] <nate> I wonder if I would be insane to consider running it on my primary home machine then
[11:35] <LoneTech> I have yet to see gstreamer work properly :(
[11:36] <nate> oh wait I already am
[11:36] <|trey|> LoneTech: haven't used Rhythmbox?
[11:36] <lypanov> LoneTech: tried the gst-register line?
[11:36] <Iorek> marillat.free.fr could not be found. Grumble
[11:37] <|trey|> LoneTech: wait, you were the poor sole who installed after gstreamer0.8-mad was moved to universe huh?
[11:37] <lypanov> Iorek: use mine then. that works :)
[11:37] <Iorek> hehe okay
[11:37] <|trey|> Iorek: use what lypanov said.
[11:37] <Iorek> hehe okay (bis) :P
[11:37] <|trey|> His repo gets moved a lot.
[11:37] <crimsun> don't use that, use the nerim.net mirror
[11:37] <|trey|> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[11:37] <LoneTech> actually, the one machine that I have currently running ubuntu isn't powerful enough for me to try it again right now.
[11:37] <|trey|> crimsun: its not a mirror, its the new home  ;)
[11:38] <crimsun> "mirror"
[11:38] <|trey|> idgi, thats what I said?
[11:38] <|trey|> Still not a mirror though, if the old site doesn't exist, its not being mirrored  :)
[11:38] <LoneTech> I shouldn't be using ubuntu on that box, but haven't bothered tuning it since.
[11:39] <|trey|> LoneTech: bah, I usually have sid installed on this box...  I can watch porn again
[11:43] <Iorek> er
[11:43] <Iorek> I mean
[11:43] <Iorek> Ukranian movies
[11:43] <|trey|> lypanov: 'f' is handy... full screen zoom  :0
[11:43] <Iorek> highly cultural
[11:43] <|trey|> heh
[11:43] <crimsun> |trey|: thanks but no thanks, i tend to dislike reinstalling. Even if it is only 8 minutes. ;)
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: i'm a year long mplayer user :P
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: mplayer rox :>
[11:43] <|trey|> crimsun: well, just take my word for it then  :)
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: i also used it on windows. the port is awesome
[11:44] <LoneTech> mplayer -vo x11 is much like xine -V xshm. haven't tried xine over networked X11 though.
[11:44] <|trey|> lypanov: thats the funny thing whenever I install windows... most of their components get switched out with my usual apps  :)
[11:45] <LoneTech> I prefer the design of xine-lib personally
[11:45] <nate> hmm
[11:45] <|trey|> LoneTech: ehh... its useless if it doesn't play nice with your codecs though...
[11:45] <|trey|>  I prefer whichever I need to play least with...
[11:45] <Iorek> umm, is there a way t opoint totem to these codecs or do I have to install xine? :)
[11:45] <|trey|> Whichever one plays a .mpg first is the winner each time I reinstall  :)
[11:46] <lypanov> Iorek: install totem-xine
[11:46] <Iorek> okay :)
[11:46] <lypanov> |trey|: yup :) mplayer just kicks ass :>
[11:46] <LoneTech> mpg? all of them should do that fine without extra codecs
[11:46] <nate> why is my Synaptic downloading mozilla-firefox-0.99+1.0PR.1-0ubuntu1 again?
[11:46] <lypanov> |trey|: the arrow keys are sooooooo useful
[11:46] <nate> according to aptitude, that's the version I already have installed
[11:46] <|trey|> lypanov: the devs suck though... hence why I don't really care whats used...
[11:46] <crimsun> nate: you sure?
[11:46] <nate> no, not sure
[11:46] <crimsun> nate: note PR.1
[11:47] <nate> possibly aptitude is reporting what's in the repository, not what's on my machine?
[11:47] <|trey|> nate: no
[11:47] <nate> what's the Debian way of doing an rpm -q package?
[11:47] <|trey|> nate: its a new version, just go with it
[11:47] <LoneTech> dpkg -l package?
[11:47] <nate> weird
[11:47] <crimsun> nate: again, note the PR.1
[11:47] <Iorek> lypanov: hmh. Weird error message here. Says another package refers to totem-xine but it can't find the package itseff
[11:48] <olojo> Hi there, I just installed Ubuntu and want to check the "synchronize clock.." setting in "Time and date settings". An error "NTP Support not running" appears, is installing ntp-simple through synaptic the "right thing(tm)" to do? the package ntp is already installed.
[11:48] <|trey|> Iorek: add "universe" to the end of your first deb line in sources.list that looks like a website
[11:48] <nate> aha
[11:48] <Iorek> okay
[11:49] <nate> right, so I was doing an 'aptitude show' which was showing the repository version not the local one
[11:49] <|trey|> nate: yes
[11:49] <_ranman_> olojo:ntp is not running..
[11:49] <nate> Oh right, of course, that's Firefox 0.10.1
[11:49] <_ranman_> olojo: start the daemon...
[11:49] <nate> d'oh
[11:50] <olojo> _ranman_: where's it to be found? neither ntp nor ntpd at least.
[11:51] <crimsun> ntp-server ?
[11:51] <ik5pvx> /etc/init.d/ntp-server start
[11:51] <Iorek> great, that worked. Well, one works, the other one just gives sound...
[11:51] <|trey|> olojo: ntp-server needs to be installed, check that... /etc/init.d/ntp-server start
[11:52] <_ranman_> hmmm, I do not run it.. check /etc/init.d or /etc/xinet.d/
[11:52] <jblack> Oh. Life just got better. http://www.uglypeople.com
[11:52] <_ranman_> hmmm forget the /etc/xinet.d/ hah
[11:52] <olojo> ntp-server shouldn't be needed, should it?
[11:52] <|trey|> olojo: yes
[11:52] <crimsun> olojo: for most people it's not necessary
[11:52] <|trey|> else we wouldn't have told you to start it
[11:52] <|trey|> crimsun: it is if you want ntp to work  :/
[11:53] <olojo> ok
[11:53] <LoneTech> the ntp server is the program that keeps your clock in sync. if you only want one-shot syncs, ntpdate can do that.
[11:53] <|trey|> crimsun: no synchronization occurs if that server is not started
[11:53] <lypanov> how do i disable a service?
[11:53] <olojo> LoneTech: thanks, exactly the answer i neede.
[11:53] <lypanov> e.g, i don't need raid or lvm stuff. but its starting on bootup
[11:53] <lypanov> how to disable?
[11:53] <|trey|> lypanov: /etc/init.d/something stop
[11:53] <micX> 54mb to upgrade. ubuntu is nearly as bad as unstable at the moment :)
[11:54] <lypanov> |trey|: forever :)
[11:54] <crimsun> |trey|: interesting, it's not installed here.
[11:54] <|trey|> lypanov: update-rc.d
[11:54] <|trey|> crimsun: then install it  ;)
[11:54] <sanitario> hi, anyone got problems logging in to gnome after upgrading today?
[11:54] <crimsun> |trey|: no need. we provide a stratum 2
[11:54] <|trey|> crimsun: I think, during boot, ntpdate is ran
[11:54] <crimsun> it is.
[11:54] <micX> sanitario, dunno, just upgrading...
[11:54] <nate> hmm
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: wtf is a stratum 2?
[11:55] <nate> anyone getting 'kernel: disabling IRQ #10' errors?
[11:55] <crimsun> tier 2 time server
[11:55] <sanitario> I can login using gdm, but gnome won't start
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: someone should put a timeout on that though... doesn't ever work for me  :/
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: ohhh... still not enlightened  :(
[11:55] <_ranman_> sanitario: I upgraded this morning (7 hours ago).. Gnome was all screwed up.. Firefox died.. My wife left me...
[11:55] <micX> sanitario, thanks for the tip, I will refrain from logging out :)
[11:55] <|trey|> _ranman_: umm, ouch... bad day then?
[11:56] <_ranman_> oops, forget the wife statement..
[11:56] <olojo> i suppose i need to fill in a NTP-server in some config somewhere? i installed ntp-server but the service won't start (FAIL)
[11:56] <|trey|> _ranman_: wishful thinking?
[11:56] <_ranman_> haha...
[11:56] <sanitario> micX: yes, try to do that
[11:56] <crimsun> |trey|: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp.html
[11:56] <topyli> i don't think |trey| was referring to the wife but gnome :)
[11:56] <micX> olojo, are you trying to be a time server?
[11:56] <|trey|> topyli: you think wrong...
[11:57] <_ranman_> topyli: It was a really bad upgrade...
[11:57] <olojo> micX: no, trying to start an server to automatically keep my clock in sync.
[11:57] <|trey|> micX: thats not what ntp-server does, despite its name
[11:57] <topyli> wifes come ang go, but gnome should work
[11:57] <topyli> wives
[11:57] <micX> olojo, well, I don't think u need ntp-server then...
[11:57] <_ranman_> Yes, gnome is more reliable than sex with the wife... sigh...
[11:58] <|trey|> topyli: blah... I can reinstall gnome... my penis yells at me if it doesn't get action on a regular basis
[11:58] <|trey|> Certainly no using GNOME when it wants action  :/
[11:58] <micX> olojo, it's in /etc/default/ntp-servers I think
[11:59] <|trey|> olojo: if you 'dpkg-reconfigure debconf' and have it ask you 'low' priority messages... it would have asked you to enter a ntp server to sync with  :/
[12:00] <|trey|> Ubuntu sets this to "high" if I recall... kinda annoying when you're used to being in control...
[12:00] <|trey|> Might even be critical...
[12:01] <micX> olojo, well, it is on my debian box, not in ubuntu though... (looking)
[12:01] <|trey|> _ranman_: I'm sorry to hear that btw... the joys of being 20  :)
[12:01] <|trey|> micX: it will be the same place..
[12:01] <micX> olojo, it's in /etc/default/ntpdate
[12:02] <|trey|> micX: wrong file though, I can't be held responsible for that  ;)
[12:03] <olojo> trey: i had medium for sarge, will change it. ntpdate is already configured ok.
[12:04] <olojo> actually, ntp-server seem to only wrap around ntpd, whose config is in /etc/ntp.conf . oh well
[12:05] <|trey|> olojo: low basically asks you everything the maintainer has set as a question...
[12:06] <|trey|> olojo: yes, ntp-server is a wrapper for ntpd, I think that is the location I set things at (logically, I always look for somethingiwanttochange.conf)
[12:07] <Iorek> ah, btw, is there a giFT frontend for gnome?
[12:07] <Iorek> that works on Ubuntu?
[12:07] <|trey|> Iorek: yes... in universe even perhaps... giftoxic
[12:07] <olojo> trey, micx: now i have both ntpdate running on each bootup and ntpd running as a service. gnome "Time and date settings" seem to not find it anyways (same error on checking checkbox), but whattaheck ;)
[12:07] <|trey|> giFT hates me though, so I never saw it work  :/
[12:07] <olojo> thanks for the help
[12:08] <Iorek> trey got it working in suse and apollon, but took me some time
[12:08] <|trey|> Iorek: mostly attempted with apollon also... tried giftoxic, saw same errors, removed...
[12:08] <|trey|> Interface is very gnome-esc
[12:09] <|trey|> ie kinda useless, but allows you to do what you want when it works  :/
[12:09] <Iorek> :)
[12:10] <|trey|> For instance, it states apps shouldn't use tabs... grrrrrrr
[12:10] <|trey|> although it would seem thats been pretty much ignored, thank god
[12:11] <micX> olojo, np. glad to help...:)
[12:11] <Iorek> trey hear hear
[12:11] <Iorek> grm
[12:11] <Iorek> no fasttrack plugin
[12:13] <Jisao> Just finished installing Ubuntu.  Nice. Is there a way to put a graphic image to the boot screen?
[12:13] <Jisao> Grub
[12:13] <Iorek> yes
[12:14] <Iorek> it's somewhere in Ubuntu artwork
[12:14] <Iorek> they provide a nice splash screen, plus insstructions
[12:14] <Jisao> ok.  I saw that package unpack.  Will have to find my way around it.
[12:14] <_ranman_> Ubuntu has the grub patch?
[12:14] <nate> patch?
[12:14] <Iorek> no no, hold on
[12:14] <_ranman_> patch for the graphical boot...
[12:14] <_ranman_> other than just color..
[12:15] <nate> ah
[12:15] <Iorek> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuArtwork
[12:15] <Iorek> bottom
[12:15] <Iorek> "Grub Logo background"
[12:15] <Jisao> It installed in 65 minutes, including the time I used to figure out the partitioner so I would not destroy anything on hda (I installed on hdb)
[12:15] <nate> a computer that hides its boot process from me is one that could be plotting my imminent demise
[12:15] <Jisao> tx
[12:16] <Iorek> nate: F2 ;)
[12:16] <Jisao> it's fine with me, other than being to fast on the 3 - 2 - 1.
[12:18] <Jisao> Anyway, got to go, work awaits.  But I wanted to check the #ubuntu channel before I left.  Tx
[12:18] <_ranman_> where is trey? Seems late for the western world...
[12:19] <|trey|> _ranman_: Arizona
[12:19] <|trey|> And yes... its 3:20 am
[12:19] <_ranman_> hmmm, ic said the blind man...
[12:19] <_ranman_> You do not sleep?
[12:19] <nate> sleep is for the zzzs
[12:19] <|trey|> I do... just kinda nocturnal  :)
[12:20] <hypatia> Any epiphany users about?
[12:20] <_ranman_> ic.. oh well I remember when I was your age, I only slept 1 hour a night..
[12:20] <|trey|> hypatia: use firefox or feel my wrath
[12:20] <hypatia> I want to ask about adding javascript bookmarklets so that they actually pop up, rather than open over the top of the current page
[12:20] <|trey|> _ranman_: oh, I get pleanty of sleep... just rarely at normal hours  :)
[12:20] <hypatia> |trey|: hack on it so that it stops crashing all the time, or feel my wrath
[12:21] <smeggy> hey hypatia
[12:21] <smeggy> i cant help you
[12:21] <smeggy> but i wanna know something
[12:21] <smeggy> and this isnt being a pain im serious
[12:21] <|trey|> hypatia: try the new upload  :/
[12:21] <smeggy> why do you choose to use it over firefox?
[12:21] <|trey|> smeggy: apparently because firefox keeps crashing  :/
[12:21] <hypatia> smeggy: because firefox crashes all the time
[12:21] <smeggy> !?
[12:21] <smeggy> !! meh
[12:21] <smeggy> lies ;)
[12:21] <hypatia> smeggy: because it has the location bar hiding interface
[12:22] <nate> firefox crashes?
[12:22] <|trey|> hypatia: I would rather reopen firefox then install epiphany though  :/
[12:22] <Iorek> hmmmh...hotplugging my usb-stick still doesn't work
[12:22] <hypatia> and because epiphany saves the current session if it crashes (which it does, but less frequently than firefox)
[12:22] <|trey|> I hate the concept of installing 2 browsers to use one  :/
[12:22] <hypatia> I just lost 40 tabs, so I'm a bit fed up with firefox.
[12:22] <nate> 40? yow
[12:22] <_ranman_> trey, a billion windoze users can't be wrong..
[12:22] <micX> firefox crashes frequently ? ? ?
[12:23] <hypatia> Also, firefox regularly gets into a state where the keybindings (Ctrl+Q, Ctrl+W) stop working
[12:23] <smeggy> i gotta say one thing
[12:23] <smeggy> unfortunately firefox seems best on windows
[12:23] <smeggy> than any other platform heh
[12:23] <|trey|> _ranman_: huh? the fact that they are using winblows discredits their opinion to start with...
[12:23] <nate> say hmm
[12:23] <nate> I like it on Linux
[12:23] <hypatia> Also, it sometimes looses the ability to paste into textboxes, and the find-as-you-type thing sometimes activates at random while I'm typing in *a text box*
[12:23] <hypatia> So, firefox is not kind to me.
[12:24] <nate> yes, the default theme looks XP-ish, but I don't mind. It's pretty.
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: still doesn't make you install another browser to use it  [shrug]
[12:24] <hypatia> micX: yes, it crashes after three or four hours of use for me.
[12:24] <nate> hmm
[12:24] <_ranman_> hmmm, my firefox died after last upgrade....
[12:24] <|trey|> nate: there is an industrial theme for firefox... I use that...
[12:24] <_ranman_> have to use galeon...
[12:24] <nate> can't say I've had the same problems with it
[12:24] <_ranman_> sigh...
[12:24] <hypatia> |trey|: I'm not trying to convince everyone else, I'm trying to justify something that seems incredible to everyone here.
[12:24] <hypatia> |trey|: and now I'll stop
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: good job
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: try #gnome... they appear to like epiphany  :)
[12:25] <micX> hypatia, weird. must be having 40 tabs or something. I have a sid box upstairs that has about a dozen tabs for a month.
[12:25] <|trey|> hypatia: every gnome based distro replaces epiphany... there is a reason for that  :)
[12:26] <hypatia> |trey|: ok, well, since you guys are so keen to have me using firefox...
[12:26] <hypatia> 1. how do I get it to stay up>
[12:26] <LoneTech> I much prefer Galeon personally.
[12:26] <hypatia> 2. how do I get it to remember the session when it crashes? (there's one extension for it, but it also crashes firefox)
[12:26] <_ranman_> I rather dislike Galeon after they started the recoding for GTK 2
[12:26] <Iorek> Ubuntu is already 60th on Distrowatch...in two months it'll have replaced Mandrake as the most popular distro!
[12:26] <Iorek> maybe :P
[12:26] <hypatia> 3. what do I do when it stops responding to keybindings?
[12:26] <|trey|> hypatia: umm... mines been running for *checks uptime* 4 days
[12:26] <nate> 60th, hmm?
[12:26] <micX> hypatia, I read some spam about that. quick delivery too.
[12:26] <LoneTech> though recently it seems to have problems with unicode conversions and finding itself
[12:26] <nate> what did it start at?
[12:27] <hypatia> 4. what do I do when it doesn't let me copy out of it
[12:27] <hypatia> 5. what do I do when it doesn't let me copy into it?
[12:27] <Iorek> nate nowhere. But couple of days after the release it was 100th
[12:27] <LoneTech> _ranman_: it took a while before the core features returned. still missing some of the session handling, or I just haven't found it.
[12:27] <Iorek> been on the rise every day
[12:27] <_ranman_> hypatia is having major problems with firefox... Sounds like no memory...
[12:28] <hypatia> Hmmm, looks like in some cases javascript bookmarklets actually mork in epiphany, so maybe the question is moot
[12:28] <hypatia> _ranman_: are you talking neural or hardware? hardware I have 512MB
[12:28] <nate> eeagh
[12:28] <_ranman_> haha, maybe both...
[12:28] <nate> After applying the latest updates from Synaptic, I'm being prompted for my video card
[12:28] <_ranman_> I seem to have problems similar with X becomes too bogged..
[12:28] <nate> heck if I know what it is, it's an onboard flavour-of-the-week
[12:29] <nate> time to see if Device Manager works
[12:29] <micX> nate, I'm at 96% upgrade...
[12:29] <nate> oh good it is a Trident
[12:29] <smeggy> nate, cat /etc/X11/XF86Config and see what the original one said if that doesnt work.
[12:29] <nate> Cyberblade
[12:30] <LoneTech> that's the one via epia has, isn't it?
[12:30] <sanitario> huh, a reboot fixed gnome.
[12:30] <nate> it suggested Trident but I wasn't sure why it wanted my confirmation
[12:30] <Iorek> sanitario: it becomes more like Windows!
[12:30] <sanitario> Iorek, sadly
[12:31] <Iorek> well, actually, no amount of reboots ever fixed windows...
[12:31] <smeggy> Iorek, untrue, reboot with a Linux distro of your choice CD1 in your optical drive ;)
[12:31] <micX> nate, heh I have that trident screen up now. we must have similar boxen...
[12:31] <opi^work> nate: better
[12:31] <sanitario> Iorek, too true ...
[12:31] <opi^work> nate: they can resolve deps
[12:32] <opi^work> nate: watch for config files
[12:32] <Iorek> smeggy I always love the look on people's faces when I boot their borked winbox with Mandrake Move...
[12:32] <Iorek> "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!"
[12:32] <opi^work> nate: there's dist-upgrde
[12:32] <smeggy> Iorek, nice one lol
[12:32] <|trey|> Iorek: a deb in simplest description: preinst script... tar.gz file... postinst script... pre checks deps... tar.gz is the app + patches usually, post is config
[12:32] <nate> modern .rpm systems can resolve dependencies now, with yum
[12:32] <nate> but that's fairly recent
[12:33] <micX> nate, are you doing anything different at boot with acpi ?
[12:33] <nate> it's the 'installing a .deb causes it to possibly wait for user input with configuration questions' thing that I find unexpected
[12:33] <|trey|> nate: they could with urpmi, up2date, yast-packagemanager, red carpet etc for a while...
[12:33] <nate> oh right, Red Carpet, I'd forgotten about that
[12:33] <opi^work> nate: debs can configure before being installed
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: imagine, it's oftpd
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: when you apt-get it it will ask for
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: port, user, and workdir
[12:34] <deFrysk> nate, yum originates from yellow dog linux , and is not the only rpm installer/updater wich resolves deps
[12:34] <nate> hmm
[12:34] <|trey|> nate: thats debconfs doing... its configures packages so its at least usable in YOUR environment...
[12:34] <Iorek> and then I have to explain that PC does NOT equal WIN95...no, I don't care how much you know about PCs...or claim to know...YES it is possible to run a PC without windows...NO sir, your pc is actually the grey box, not the screen...
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: same goes with SMTP
[12:34] <Iorek> *sigh*
[12:34] <|trey|> nate: asking is better then guessing imo
[12:35] <nate> deFrysk: yeah, I've been mostly a Red Hat person so yum was the first autoresolving rpm updater I saw
[12:35] <Iorek> apt4rpm
[12:35] <nate> though I did have a brief fling with apt
[12:35] <micX> Resolved address "xml::/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults" to a writable configuration source at position 0
[12:35] <nate> but Synaptic wasn't terribly pleasant to use with Fedora
[12:35] <micX> useful info. thanks apt :)
[12:36] <nate> something about RPMs being scattered around lots of different repositories made it ugly to use. Ubuntu's seems a lot more friendly.
[12:36] <Iorek> I rather like Yast....I just don't like the KDE flavour that much
[12:36] <smeggy> well obviously.. it.. uh resolved that address.. to a writable configuration source at position 0!
[12:36] <smeggy> very useful! :P
[12:36] <LoneTech> I prefer aptitude personally.
[12:36] <nate> We've started using SuSE at work (we're a Novell shop) so I may make yast's acquaintance a bit more
[12:37] <|trey|> LoneTech: aptitude = apt-get for people that hate themselves
[12:37] <Iorek> Suse's the one that enabled me to switch
[12:37] <Iorek> learned a lot
[12:37] <nate> heh
[12:37] <sanitario> so noone uses synaptic?
[12:37] <nate> which is recommended to use, aptitude or apt-get?
[12:37] <smeggy> I do.
[12:37] <nate> I use Synaptic myself
[12:37] <Iorek> sanitario: it's apt-get, isn't it? ;)
[12:37] <|trey|> sanitario: nah... makes life harder  :/
[12:37] <micX> nate, are you doing anything different at boot with acpi ? (repeat Q)
[12:37] <micX> apt-get here.
[12:37] <LoneTech> it's the orphan feature and new/obsolete listings I like.
[12:38] <LoneTech> and that it's so much faster than dselect
[12:38] <nate> micX: why are you asking me? oh, is that about the IRQ error I mentioned way back?
[12:38] <|trey|> Iorek: no... synaptic, gnome-apt, kpackage (the deb version), apt-get etc all are frontends for dpkg-deb
[12:38] <micX> yesterday, or so. we both have similar hw
[12:38] <Iorek> trey ah, didn't know that :)
[12:39] <Iorek> by the way, in Ubuntu the "history" plugin in Gaim does absolutely nothing
[12:39] <|trey|> missed out aptitude and dselect... but yeah, you get the idea  :)
[12:39] <nate> what's gnome-apt like?
[12:39] <sanitario> Iorek, well, yes?
[12:39] <|trey|> Iorek: umm, yeah it does, turn on logging...
[12:39] <sanitario> sort of.
[12:39] <sanitario> |trey|, harder, in what way?
[12:40] <nate> is there a way to apply .debs silently? I assume there is, as that would be an essential feature for admining a server, and Debian seems to be used for that a lot.
[12:40] <Iorek> trey I check "history", but no new submeny of "plugins" appears so I can't check logging :)
[12:40] <|trey|> sanitario: as in I have to play with a ui, or stop it from bringing along suggests and recommends all the time
[12:40] <|trey|> apt-get + apt-cache = just easier in every way.
[12:41] <LoneTech> nate: you can tweak the priority of questions to ask for debconf, and have it use different interfaces. I believe one uses email. Not so sure about the config file replacements though
[12:41] <nate> hmm
[12:41] <LoneTech> I haven't looked into non-interactive updates much
[12:41] <sanitario> |trey|, ah, I can see your point about the gui, but I really think it's nice for first-time users
[12:41] <sanitario> at least it seems to be
[12:41] <nate> but no way to do it completely automagically for a remote server?
[12:41] <_ranman_> trey: I have to agree with you for when you have a full system already installed...
[12:41] <LoneTech> you *can*, but that means assuming answers to those questions.
[12:41] <nate> well, sure
[12:42] <micX> nate, google use an upgrade system based on apt and remote automatic upgrading.
[12:42] <LoneTech> I'm not sure how though.
[12:42] <|trey|> sanitario: they were my biggest hurdles when I started using debian...
[12:42] <nate> I would have assumed that it would leave config settings exactly unchanged
[12:42] <|trey|> When I discovered apt-get, I became addicted
[12:42] <nate> if upgrading
[12:42] <LoneTech> it's fairly easy to clone debconf replies and package selections
[12:42] <micX> nate, there was atalk at LCA in Adelaide about it.
[12:42] <|trey|> If that tool didn't exist, I would never consider Debian
[12:42] <nate> that's why I was very suprised when I got prompted when upgrading
[12:42] <nate> since that's not a thing RPM ever does
[12:43] <sanitario> |trey|, same here. apt-get + apt-cache + auto-apt is pure love
[12:43] <vrln> what's auto-apt?
[12:43] <LoneTech> nate: yes, ordinarily. but debconf will ask *new* questions, and if a config file was altered locally and between package versions, that needs to be resolved.
[12:43] <nate> Is that because Debian allows you to do a complete seamless upgrade, whereas RPM systems usually have break-points between major releases?
[12:43] <LoneTech> when I compared them at first RPM had no concept of a config file; it quietly overwrote anything I had changed. I expect that is no longer the case.
[12:43] <Iorek> that'll teach me to click "History" 25 times in one second :P
[12:44] <|trey|> sanitario: auto-apt hates me... I just use the us mirror and the berkeley mirror... never slower then 500kb/s
[12:44] <|trey|> umm, ignore that...
[12:44] <|trey|> vrln: auto-apt installs packages that provide something you try to do...
[12:44] <LoneTech> nate: pretty much, I guess
[12:44] <nate> LoneTech: depends how the RPM is written. I think the current best practice is to create a '.rpmnew' file with new settings if the old one exists
[12:44] <|trey|> so if you type lsof, but its not installed, auto-apt will install it
[12:44] <LoneTech> right. that's what debian does if you answer to keep your old config.
[12:45] <vrln> nice to know, I'll check it out :) thanks
[12:45] <LoneTech> writes a .dpkg-new version
[12:45] <nate> but since I've never really trusted RPM to upgrade from one major Red Hat / Fedora release to another, I've always done complete system erases and rebuilds, which is kind of a pain
[12:45] <LoneTech> certainly is.
[12:45] <|trey|> vrln: also, apt-file is also nice... searches database for something that provides a file you might need...
[12:46] <|trey|> vrln: very useful when compiling things
[12:46] <sanitario> vrln, be sure to check out auto-apt search <file>
[12:46] <sanitario> |trey|, you can do that with auto-apt also
[12:46] <LoneTech> but coming from debian, I was really surprised when Xandros, a debian-based distro, expected people to do this "install the new version by booting the CD" routine
[12:46] <|trey|> sanitario: ahh... k... didn't know that  :)
[12:46] <nate> How many Debian spinoffs have there been so far?
[12:46] <Iorek> a lot
[12:47] <nate> for some reason Ubuntu is the first that's caught my eye
[12:47] <|trey|> nate: last I counted... 34
[12:47] <Iorek> Xandros is Debian
[12:47] <nate> yeah, and UserLinux
[12:47] <jblack> Progeny. :)
[12:47] <nate> mmm
[12:47] <LoneTech> debian.org has a list of a few iirc
[12:47] <|trey|> about 15 of which are actually Knoppix spinoffs, but ok...
[12:47] <lyp|lunch> ubuntu is my reason to switch back to linux from windows
[12:47] <nate> Oh right, Knoppix, I have played with that. Debian without noticing.
[12:47] <lyp|lunch> so it must be pretty impressive :P
[12:47] <nate> not that installing packages comes into it on Knoppix
[12:47] <Iorek> trey does the whole "minimised windows flashes" work with you in Gaim? :)
[12:48] <micX> censornet, knoppix, etc. etc.
[12:48] <|trey|> jblack: blah... sure Ian works there, but I don't like Progeny... trying to make my sources.list huge doesn't sit well with me  :/
[12:48] <nate> I think Ubuntu is going to bring a whole bunch of people to Debian
[12:48] <|trey|> nate: hopefully...
[12:48] <nate> I have been somewhat pissed-off with Red Hat since RHL split into Enterprise Linux and Fedora
[12:48] <|trey|> nate: that attitude is kinda moronic..
[12:49] <|trey|> if you didn't pay for rhl, you use fedora... if you did you use rhel... not that hard to figure out...
[12:49] <nate> yes
[12:49] <nate> but the problem is they are now no longer the same product
[12:49] <nate> there is no guarantee that by playing with Fedora you have any idea what's in RHEL
[12:49] <|trey|> How is that a problem?
[12:49] <Iorek> tried to install Fedora....FC1, one year ago. distro's have improved a LOT since then
[12:49] <nate> so, hence, no real reason to use a Red Hat-like distro at home
[12:50] <nate> which was my main reason for 'sticking with the market leader'
[12:50] <|trey|> nate: umm, thats just not true... FC 3 == RHEL4 + value added stuff (application server etc)
[12:50] <LoneTech> much like mozilla-netscape, openoffice-staroffice and such pairings..
[12:50] <nate> that's nice, but I don't really care any longer
[12:51] <nate> I don't feel I have any 'brand loyalty' to Fedora unless it's a good home distro
[12:51] <|trey|> LoneTech: not really, they are fair closer then either of those examples...
[12:51] <Iorek> the whole red hat thing didn't bother me...I just don't like Fedora's look n feel
[12:51] <LoneTech> ok
[12:51] <|trey|> nate: which it is.
[12:51] <nate> well
[12:51] <nate> Ubuntu feels better for me
[12:51] <nate> Fedora 3 may be okay
[12:51] <Iorek> it'll still have the hat
[12:52] <|trey|> nate: your argument is not valid at all... although the fact that people like you exist is proof that they went about it wrong...
[12:52] <Iorek> I don't want to click a hat or a lizard
[12:52] <nate> yes
[12:52] <Iorek> I want to click a FOOT
[12:52] <nate> They also lost me at Fedora 2
[12:52] <micX> redhat's ok. I just dont want to run it.
[12:52] <LoneTech> not a K?
[12:52] <|trey|> Iorek: then change the icon theme
[12:52] <nate> the reason I didn't upgrade is that when it came out, it was not compatible with the nVidia binary drivers
[12:52] <Iorek> nah, I replaced the K in Suse with a penguin :)
[12:52] <Iorek> trey I did ;)
[12:52] <nate> and when asked about it they said 'meh, we don't care'
[12:52] <nate> so, well, shrug
[12:52] <LoneTech> oddly, mom got confused by that point. She didn't know how to start things, never ocurred to her to try the same place as windows
[12:53] <nate> mind you, I'm not sure if Ubuntu is either...
[12:53] <Iorek> *grin*
[12:53] <nate> if it isn't I may end up not putting it on my main box
[12:53] <|trey|> nate: their attitude is such that if people are THAT confused, perhaps they will think they now HAVE to pay, and will, they make money, oh well...
[12:53] <nate> sure, if it works for them that's great. I wish them well.
[12:53] <|trey|> nate: but they have always stated that RHEL will be a slimmed down version of Fedora with value added features...
[12:54] <nate> Um
[12:54] <nate> they've stated, I believe, that RHEL will be 'based on' Fedora technology in some vaguely unspecified manner
[12:54] <|trey|> ie xfce4 won't be included
[12:54] <vrln> and 5 years of security support iirc
[12:55] <Iorek> MS Linux
[12:55] <Iorek> I'd try it
[12:55] <Iorek> :P
[12:55] <LoneTech> nah, but Digital Research.. oh wait, I did that already.
[12:55] <|trey|> nate: umm, their customizations will remain, their config tools will remain, everything will remain, except they won't include all packages, and they will include things like java, realplayer (instead of helix), application server, directory server, things like this... plus you get support...
[12:55] <nate> I guess I just feel that if the Linux I use at home isn't going to be *identical* to the Linux I use at work, I'd rather have a home Linux that is customised for the home.
[12:56] <LoneTech> any other non-proud Network Desktop 1.0 owners here?
[12:56] <Iorek> ? :)
[12:56] <Iorek> no :)
[12:56] <|trey|> nate: umm, fedora is customized for the home...
[12:56] <LoneTech> have any of you even heard of Wabi then?
[12:56] <nate> Not really.
[12:56] <nate> It doesn't have any multimedia stuff
[12:57] <Mithrandir> nate: we ship the nvidia drivers, though.
[12:57] <|trey|> nate: it actually does, check out Red Hat Desktop sometime  :/
[12:57] <nate> What is Red Hat Desktop?
[12:57] <Iorek> installing mp3 support is rather easy too
[12:57] <nate> oh, RHEL Desktop?
[12:57] <nate> er, RHEL Workstation or whatever?
[12:57] <|trey|> nate: no, redhat desktop
[12:58] <nate> what is that?
[12:58] <|trey|> not rhel ws
[12:58] <|trey|> its a desktop product that has support
[12:58] <nate> ...
[12:58] <nate> okay, now I'm officially confused
[12:58] <nate> this is yet another fork of Red Hat?
[12:58] <nate> a non RHEL, non Fedora third distro?
[12:58] <LoneTech> didn't the undrop desktop or something other weird?
[12:59] <LoneTech> it seems they are being confusing.
[12:59] <|trey|> nate: rhel as - application server, rhel ws - corporate desktop, rhel es - enterprise server, rh desktop - home desktop
[12:59] <|trey|> then Fedora, free download open developement
[12:59] <nate> hmm
[12:59] <nate> when did RH Desktop come out?
[12:59] <|trey|> last year
[12:59] <nate> hmm
[12:59] <nate> Interesting
[01:00] <LoneTech> ah, and naturally "Desktop" is under the "Enterprise Linux" category.
[01:00] <nate> How is Desktop related to Fedora and RHEL?
[01:00] <nate> same as RHEL?
[01:00] <nate> or different upgrade schedule, or what?
[01:00] <|trey|> LoneTech: yes, but its not part of its name... because then it would be confused with RHEL WS  :)
[01:00] <nate> this is what I mean. The product's fracturing into multiple confusing incompatible things.
[01:01] <|trey|> nate: its supported, it has media codecs etc... you pay for it.
[01:01] <nate> Like Apple in the mid-90s
[01:01] <nate> what's the price?
[01:01] <|trey|> nate: I'm not confused... I read the site, and what the devels have to say on the matter....
[01:01] <|trey|> same as RHL
[01:01] <|trey|> < $100
[01:02] <nate> so, what's the difference between Desktop and WS?
[01:02] <LoneTech> http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/comparison/
[01:03] <micX> erm. isn't this the ubuntu channel? Why are we discussing redhat interminably?
[01:03] <smeggy> we're nerds
[01:03] <smeggy> we could talk about Iranian Jerds if the mood struck us
[01:03] <Iorek> that's an answer to EVERYTHING
[01:03] <|trey|> nate: umm, one is meant for home use, the other is meant as a client
[01:04] <Iorek> yeah, Iranian flavour of Linux...
[01:04] <Iorek> it probably exists
[01:04] <|trey|> micX: bring something else up... redhat is the current subject... and I'm not tired enough to attempt sleep.
[01:04] <nate> hmm
[01:04] <Iorek> how do you install a downloaded deb package? :P
[01:04] <nate> looking at this I don't see the difference between RHEL WS and Desktop
[01:04] <|trey|> micX: most normal people are asleep, no harm no foul
[01:05] <micX> dpkg -i package
[01:05] <Iorek> asleep? at 1 pm?
[01:05] <|trey|> nate: I just told you... you don't listen do you?
[01:05] <Iorek> micX: thanks :)
[01:05] <|trey|> Iorek: try 4  ;)
[01:05] <micX> Iorek, you're welcome :)
[01:05] <|trey|> am
[01:05] <nate> |trey|: Yes, you told me one is 'meant' for something... 'meant' doesn't mean anything to me.
[01:06] <LoneTech> nate: they didn't include the "enterprise" kernel package and less phone support. huge difference, isn't it?
[01:06] <|trey|> LoneTech: actually, all the kernels are the same (according to the kernel hackers)
[01:06] <nate> Less support is the only thing I can see on the comparison chart.
[01:07] <|trey|> nate: ...
[01:07] <nate> So, hmm. For some reason I was under the impression that the boxed set had vanished.
[01:07] <|trey|> Thats really the only difference... other then what I said  :/
[01:07] <LoneTech> trey: sure, but the official comparison list claims the "Desktop" edition doesn't support SMP or >4GB memory. that would be the old "enterprise" kernel config iirc.
[01:07] <|trey|> nate: Fedora has no box set... you have to pay for a box set  :/
[01:07] <|trey|> funk that noice
[01:07] <Iorek> trey and in your case, that's am, I presume? ;)
[01:07] <|trey|> noise
[01:08] <|trey|> Iorek: I already said that
[01:08] <nate> I guess 'Desktop' is sort of like Mandrake Official maybe?
[01:08] <Iorek> trey I missed it :P
[01:08] <Iorek> brb
[01:08] <|trey|> nate: no
[01:09] <|trey|> nate: forget mandrake... comparisons confuse people
[01:09] <nate> It's a very confusing product line, I think.
[01:09] <nate> not easily understood at a glance
[01:09] <nate> I would have expected maybe two server variants, one workstation
[01:10] <|trey|> nate: not at all, you have just been brainwashed by the fud about it, and don't understand how corporations buy software...
[01:10] <nate> and maybe a 'Home' edition with extra glitz, such as bundled games
[01:10] <nate> er
[01:10] <nate> Well, they did kind of fud themselves, really.
[01:10] <|trey|> nate: thats EXACTLY what they did do..
[01:10] <|trey|> AS and ES = server, WS = workstation... desktop = home edition
[01:11] <nate> But 'Desktop' is a very coy kind of name. It doesn't position itself as either 'home' or 'work'. It sort of suggests a little of both, and neither.
[01:11] <nate> at least in this comparison chart
[01:11] <micX> the fudmeisters at redhat have played into Ubunu's hands...
[01:11] <Iorek> there...
[01:11] <|trey|> micX: fudmeisters in the press*
[01:11] <Iorek> guifications works. History still doesn't. Ah well :)
[01:11] <|trey|> Ubuntu's*
[01:11] <|trey|> Iorek: TURN ON LOGGING!!!
[01:12] <|trey|> history won't work if it has nothing to print at the top of the screen
[01:12] <Iorek> trey TOLD ja, I can't :)
[01:12] <|trey|> Iorek: I don't recall, why can't you?
[01:12] <Iorek> trey normally when you heck the history plugin, a new submenu of "Plugins" appears, right?
[01:12] <Iorek> and there you can turn on logging
[01:13] <Iorek> or maybe it doesn't
[01:13] <Iorek> hmmmh
[01:13] <|trey|> Iorek: blah... you're not listening... tools >> preferences >> logging >> log all instante messages
[01:13] <|trey|> then try again
[01:13] <Iorek> hey, they moved the log-preferences! :P
[01:13] <|trey|> it will work
[01:13] <|trey|> as if by magic
[01:14] <Iorek> trey you are right, I am wrong, and I humbly apologise :P
[01:14] <|trey|> Iorek: I play with GAIM more then any other program...
[01:14] <|trey|> I'm a teenager, and a lot of hot chicks bug me  8)
[01:14] <Iorek> trey in that case, there's another thing that doesn't work ;)
[01:15] <|trey|> Iorek: whats that?
[01:15] <Iorek> the "minimised windows flash when you have a new message" thing
[01:15] <Iorek> putting numbers in front of them works just fine
[01:15] <micX> channel score: Ubuntu:217 Debian:730 redhat:74 gentoo:863 fedora:319
[01:16] <|trey|> Iorek: hmm, haven't played with that... use queing here...
[01:16] <nate> gentoo?
[01:16] <|trey|> micX: damn, Debian is getting more and more packed all the time.
[01:16] <Iorek> maybe it's a gnome thing, I haven't seen ANY windows flash :)
[01:16] <|trey|> nate: tell me you're kidding.
[01:16] <|trey|> nate: and I don't recommend you try it.
[01:17] <Iorek> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/
[01:17] <|trey|> almost certainly way over your head
[01:17] <nate> Last time I tried it it didn't compile
[01:17] <Iorek> start installing
[01:17] <Iorek> *grin*
[01:17] <nate> |trey| pbbbbfffft
[01:17] <|trey|> Iorek: stfu, don't tell morons to install gentoo
[01:17] <|trey|> nate: no offense
[01:17] <nate> |trey| Actually, that was pretty offensive.
[01:18] <jblack> I agree with nate. That was just plain rude
[01:18] <Iorek> I always got stuck at the grub config
[01:18] <micX> nate, gentoo is ok, if you have a week or so spare :)
[01:18] <nate> It seems like it should be more fun than it turned out to be
[01:18] <|trey|> jblack: I'll get over it  :/
[01:18] <LoneTech> I find grub easy, but maybe that's because I've messed with PCs since dos 2 and have actually modified grub a few times.
[01:18] <nate> One day I may try it again
[01:19] <Iorek> one day I'll fly away...
[01:19] <|trey|> ps, it was meant to be  :/
[01:19] <nate> right, I've had about enough of that
[01:19] <nate> I think it's time I rebooted to see what the update fairy brought me
[01:19] <nate> bye all
[01:19] <micX> nate, I sorta gave up on it. every time I wanted to update the machine would be grinding for hours. Be good on cable internet with a fast box, I guess.
[01:19] <|trey|> Gentoo isn't peticularly friendly to a 950 Duron  :/
[01:20] <LoneTech> eh? reboot, why?
[01:20] <Iorek> haven't tried that much yet...year ago I knew next to nothing and couldn't get Fedore Core 1 installed/configged. Pretty obvious I couldn't get Debian to work either...:)
[01:20] <|trey|> LoneTech: my thoughts exactly  :/
[01:20] <Iorek> or Gentoo
[01:20] <Iorek> or Arch
[01:21] <|trey|> Iorek: Anaconda was my first installer for a linux distro... never had an issue with it...
[01:21] <|trey|> Mandrakes installer was pita though
[01:21] <Iorek> trey installing wasn't a problem, but installing soft was.  Give me the right one"
[01:23] <Iorek> "Er..."
[01:24] <|trey|> Iorek: urpmi  :/
[01:24] <lypanov> lol
[01:24] <|trey|> Ubuntu is the first distro in 2 years that I installed from a CD  :/
[01:24] <Iorek> trey didn't work :) Oh, and up2date in Fedora is another exercise in futility
[01:25] <|trey|> that actually worked nicely in FC1... after I converted some yum and apt repo's to its format  :/
[01:25] <|trey|> FC2 no such luck though, but yum is also improving, so whatever  :/
[01:26] <Iorek> 'xactly. the normal repo sucks minotaur genitalia
[01:26] <|trey|> Most of the aesthetic changes to yum were cuz I kept saying up2date's appearence looked cleaner  :)
[01:27] <|trey|> Iorek: its the most popular distro dude... and they don't redirect to other mirrors... Debian servers would be just as bad if it didn't redirect...
[01:27] <Iorek> but they do :)
[01:27] <|trey|> ftp.debian.org and ftp.us.debian.org etc redirect  :)
[01:27] <Iorek> which is the whole shish kebab
[01:28] <|trey|> Quite nice... although sometimes they get the redirecting HORRIBLY wrong  :(
[01:28] <|trey|> Iorek: I cringe when I see download speeds lower then 400kb/s  :(
[01:28] <|trey|> spoiled I tell you  :)
[01:28] <Iorek> Ubuntu is still small so I guess that's not a problem...
[01:28] <Iorek> heheh
[01:28] <Iorek> quite :P
[01:28] <Iorek> okay, food
[01:29] <Iorek> and socks
[01:29] <Iorek> socks would be nice too
[01:29] <|trey|> haha @ stupid bitches  "you can't love her, you can't, because I love you"  *slap*
[01:29] <|trey|> "but I let you inside me, you can't love her"
[01:29] <|trey|> hahahhahahahah
[01:29] <|trey|> ne ways what were we talking about?
[01:30] <|trey|>  I think its time for sleep here too  :(
[01:31] <Iorek> night :)
[01:39] <lonewolff> hi, is there a ubuntu php4-mysql package?
[01:40] <micX> lonewolff, yep: php4-mysql - MySQL module for php4
[01:41] <lonewolff> it doesent seem to be on the default ubuntu mirrors tho
[01:41] <lonewolff> i tried sudo apt-get install php4-mysql
[01:41] <micX> lonewolff, apt-cache search <searchstring> is your friend
[01:42] <micX> lonewolff, maybe it's in universe.
[01:43] <lonewolff> universe? sorry im new to apt
[01:43] <micX> yea. you have to uncomment it, in /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:43] <lonewolff> oh ok
[01:43] <lonewolff> ill do that now
[01:43] <micX> then apt-get update
[01:44] <micX> lonewolff, it's def, in universe: Filename: pool/universe/p/php4/php4-mysql_4.3.8-3ubuntu6_i386.deb
[01:44] <lonewolff> ok thanx
[01:44] <lonewolff> im just updating my apt now after uncommenting universe
[02:00] <imka> i got a few problems
[02:00] <joem> ask away
[02:00] <imka> i can't play my audio/video files
[02:00] <imka> i got mp3's in /home
[02:01] <imka> and when i doubleclick the file it opens totem and tells me that "can not open resource for writing"
[02:01] <imka> i have sound working in tvtime
[02:01] <imka> (tv watching app)
[02:01] <joem> is this totem-gstreamer?
[02:02] <imka> it tells me the same in rhythmbox
[02:03] <joem> install gstreamer-mad from universe
[02:03] <seb128> gstreamer0.8-mad
[02:04] <imka> it's installed
[02:04] <seb128> run gstreamer-properties
[02:04] <seb128> select the esdsink for audio
[02:05] <seb128> and try again ?
[02:06] <imka> as root or as user?
[02:07] <joem> user
[02:08] <imka> no succes
[02:08] <imka> same error
[02:08] <seb128> what does it says ?
[02:08] <seb128> esd is running ?
[02:09] <seb128> try the alsa/oss sinks and click on test
[02:09] <imka> can not open resource for writing
[02:09] <imka> /dev/dsp: no such device
[02:09] <seb128> oh
[02:10] <seb128> what's your soundcard ?
[02:10] <imka> via82xx
[02:10] <imka> i have sound in tvtime
[02:10] <seb128> ls /dev/dsp*
[02:11] <imka> /dev/dsp  /dev/dsp1
[02:12] <seb128> with "osssink device=/dev/dsp1" as audiosink in gstreamer-properties
[02:12] <seb128> does it work ?
[02:13] <imka> no it doesnt
[02:13] <imka> what source?
[02:15] <seb128> ?
[02:15] <imka> i'm installing all gstreamer plugins now
[02:15] <seb128> that's not a gstreamer problem
[02:15] <seb128> not a plugin problem at least
 /dev/dsp: no such device
[02:16] <seb128> apparently you have a soundcard config problem
[02:17] <imka> what can i do?
[02:18] <seb128> do you have several soundcards ?
[02:18] <imka> no.
[02:18] <seb128> lsmod | grep snd ?
[02:19] <imka> snd_via82xx            26660  1
[02:19] <imka> snd_ac97_codec         59268  1 snd_via82xx
[02:19] <imka> snd_mpu401_uart         7296  1 snd_via82xx
[02:19] <imka> snd_rawmidi            23232  1 snd_mpu401_uart
[02:19] <imka> snd_seq_device          7944  1 snd_rawmidi
[02:19] <imka> snd_bt87x              13640  1
[02:19] <imka> snd_pcm_oss            48168  0
[02:19] <imka> snd_mixer_oss          16640  3 snd_pcm_oss
[02:19] <imka> snd_pcm                85540  3 snd_via82xx,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm_oss
[02:19] <imka> snd_timer              23172  1 snd_pcm
[02:19] <imka> snd                    50660  10 snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
[02:19] <imka> snd_page_alloc         11144  3 snd_via82xx,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm
[02:19] <imka> soundcore               9824  4 snd,bttv
[02:19] <imka> gameport                4736  2 snd_via82xx,analog
[02:19] <imka> i have a tvcard if that matters
[02:20] <imka> sorry for flooding
[02:20] <petemc> i just put an aic7xxx pci scsi adapter in my ubuntu box and it segfaults on boot
[02:21] <jblack> anybody have an ubuntu torrent ?
[02:22] <housetier> jblack, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[02:23] <HcE> jblack: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[02:23] <seb128> imka: "cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp1" makes some sound ?
[02:23] <jblack> thanks
[02:25] <imka> seb128 no
[02:25] <imka> seb128 it has finally brought out some ugly crashing sound
[02:26] <imka> brrr that was loud :)
[02:26] <seb128> imka: ok, and using "osssink device=/dev/dsp1" doesn't work .
[02:26] <seb128> ?
[02:28] <imka> thanks seb128
[02:29] <seb128> np
[02:30] <imka> warty is a bit warty but i love it
[02:33] <imka> seb128 do you think it matters if i leave all the gstreamer plugins installed? i don't feel like going through them and see what i need/don't need
[02:34] <seb128> no problem to keep them
[02:34] <imka> what is gstreamer anyways?
[02:35] <imka> what apps use it?
[02:35] <mjr> it's a multimedia framework
[02:35] <patientfox> im curious is there any talk of ubuntu going to x.org?
[02:35] <mjr> some music players do, at least
[02:35] <jk> totem uses it, and a lot of other gnome stuff
[02:35] <patientfox> i see that warty uses xf86 4.3.0
[02:35] <micX> patientfox, next release.
[02:35] <patientfox> teehee
[02:35] <micX> patientfox, it's in the wiki
[02:35] <mjr> jk, is totem/gstreamer stable and usable for video playback nowadays?
[02:35] <imka> i think i'm gonna remove it. i prefer xmms and mplayer
[02:36] <jk> mjr: totem's never worked  for me...i always use mplayer
[02:36] <opi^work> re
[02:36] <patientfox> mplayer++
[02:36] <mjr> totem-xine works quite fine, but gstreamer has seemed a bit unfinished when it comes to video playback
[02:40] <opi^work> re |trey| :)
[02:41] <|trey|> How do you make Xchat not do its wierd alignment thing?
[02:41] <|trey|> I can't find the option
[02:41] <opi^work> |trey|: hmm, could you describe wierd aligment?
[02:42] <|trey|> The line it puts on the screen, I want that gone...
[02:42] <opi^work> hrm..
[02:43] <tbw> trey: preferences, text box, uncheck "indent nicks"
[02:43] <|trey|> tbw: thanks... I'm blind  :)
[02:43] <|trey|> brb, getting rid of white boxes  :/
[02:45] <|trey|> ahh, much better  :)
[02:45] <|trey|> k, night time for me  :)
[02:53] <HcE> whoami
[02:53] <HcE> wrong windows ;)
[02:53] <HcE> s/windows/window/
[02:56] <Squad`nLeedah> evening all.
[02:56] <imka> afternoon here
[02:56] <imka> will there be an official ubuntu forum?
[02:57] <Squad`nLeedah> has anyone had any trouble with the install process halting on 81% and 'Detecting CD-ROM' with 'Linux Generic IDE' underneath it?
[02:58] <Squad`nLeedah> boots off the CD ok, but halts there
[02:59] <dutch> I installed Ubuntu Friday, from the CD, no problems
[03:00] <azeem> Squad`nLeedah: I heard about problems when burning CDs with DMA enabled or so, perhaps you could google for that
[03:00] <azeem> Squad`nLeedah: dunno if that is your issue, though
[03:00] <Kamion> it's more about booting the CD with DMA enabled as far as I know; recent daily CD builds disable DMA on CDs by default
[03:01] <Squad`nLeedah> so its a latest build i need?
[03:02] <Squad`nLeedah> or is there a boot parameter to disable DMA
[03:02] <Kamion> Squad`nLeedah: certainly worth a try, if you're currently installing from the preview or similar
[03:02] <Squad`nLeedah> hrmm
[03:04] <Squad`nLeedah> cheers guys
[03:10] <lothario> my system has usb1.1 - I've had no luck mounting usb stick, could this be the problem?
[03:11] <lothario> my cpu jumps to 99% when I plug in usb stick and dmesg returns repeatd I/O errors
[03:14] <Safari_Al> guys, what should I install for a java runtime environment & moz plugin on ubuntu?
[03:21] <topyli> I have Blackdown 1.4. This is in my sources.list: deb http://jopa.studentenweb.org/debian/ ./
[03:22] <topyli> Safari_Al
[03:23] <Safari_Al> topyli, thanks
[03:26] <imka> how do i edit the gnome menu? stupid question i know but i'm not used to it
[03:28] <topyli> imka: go to applications:/// in nautilus and edit away. you can also add, remove and edit the menu entries directly by right clicking them.
[03:28] <imka> thanks
[03:29] <Safari_Al> topyli, is menu editing really enabled in warty?
[03:29] <Safari_Al> that's a first
[03:29] <topyli> Safari_Al: sure. why not?
[03:30] <topyli> it's not redhat :)
[03:30] <Safari_Al> haha
[03:31] <freethink> howdy
[03:32] <Safari_Al> howdy partner
[03:35] <freethink> does ubuntu come with support for smbfs in the kernel by default? how do i check this?
[03:36] <spiv> freethink: it's built as a module, yes.
[03:37] <spiv> freethink: as "modprobe smbfs" will demonstrate ;)
[03:40] <xTina> Hm. Anyone have an idea what's up with bugzilla? I tried to create an account the day the preview was released but never got an email. I subsequently tried two or three more times, it always told me that the account already existed, so I requested the password to be emailed to me. None of the mails arrived. Now (yesterday) I got the email with the password change request of September 29, which of course has expired in the meantime :(
[03:40] <freethink> thanks
[03:44] <|trey|> justdave: ping
[03:44] <|trey|> xTina: when justdave gets back, talk to him about it, he deals with that stuff  :)
[03:45] <xTina> |trey|: ok, thanks :)
[03:57] <mpjung> hmm... ubuntu looks quite nice (just installed it a few seconds ago)
[03:58] <mpjung> For some reason my graphic card is working at 60 Hz (yuk!), I couldn't choose my keyboard layout during the setup and the sudo root access doesn't work.
[03:59] <mpjung> (If I had root access I could easily fix those problems)
[04:00] <mpjung> Since I got also a debian install on my harddisk it's no big thing to change the password, but is there anything known about such problems, yet
[04:09] <|trey|> mpjung: define 'doesn't work'... typing user password?
[04:09] <mpjung> I
[04:10] <mpjung> i'm online using ubuntu right now
[04:10] <mpjung> so logging in as normal user was no problem
[04:10] <|trey|> mpjung: I can see that... but what about 'sudo -s' is bad?
[04:10] <|trey|> sudo -s YOUR password...
[04:10] <mpjung> ah.
[04:10] <|trey|> not one line though...
[04:10] <|trey|> sudo -s
[04:10] <mpjung> yay
[04:10] <|trey|> YOUR password
[04:11] <|trey|> like that  :)
[04:11] <mpjung> okie... I thought it would ask for the root password ^_^
[04:12] <mpjung> ok... now downloading the nvidia stuff in the hope that it'll get rid of those nasty 60hz
[04:13] <justBE_dot_com> hello :)
[04:15] <mpjung> how can I change the keyboard layout
[04:15] <justBE_dot_com> does anyone know, why ubuntu doesn't detect any of my 2 cd-drives and therefore fails to install? :\ already tried disabling one of the both... no success...
[04:15] <mpjung> I'm used to DVORAK and would like to set it as the whole system
[04:15] <seb128> mpjung: computer menu -> desktop -> keyboard
[04:16] <jblack> pjusbe_dot_com: Wild guess here, but did you forget to set the master/slave jumper?
[04:16] <mpjung> seb128, that doesn't affect the consoles.
[04:16] <jblack> If the bios can't find the drive, then ...
[04:16] <justBE_dot_com> jblack.. nah.. works perfectly under windows, fedora, etc
[04:16] <justBE_dot_com> the drive works.. just ubuntu doesn't detect them
[04:16] <seb128> mpjung: dpkg-reconfigure console-data
[04:17] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: that, for me, would be the definition for "not working"...
[04:17] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: you know the module needed?
[04:17] <justBE_dot_com> no, not really :\ they are both ide cd-rws, attached to the primary ide port
[04:17] <justBE_dot_com> on a intel 875 board...
[04:18] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: weird... should be ide-cd  :/
[04:18] <justBE_dot_com> strange thing is... with debian sarge it works fine...
[04:19] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: file a bug noting that perhaps...
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> i'll give it another try.. just to make sure... is there anything I should load/check before loading ide-cd by hand?
[04:19] <|trey|> modprobe ide-cd just to make sure
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> okidoki.. will try
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> thanks for now :)
[04:20] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: if you note it works with sarge, at least the devs have something to work with... just would need to look at recent changes then  :)
[04:20] <mpjung> seb128, okie. so its the same as in debian... =)
[04:20] <seb128> yes
[04:20] <seb128> the distro is debian based
[04:21] <justBE_dot_com> yep... will put it in the bug description in case it really doesn't work...
[04:21] <mpjung> seb128, I know, but I thought those things were made somewhat more userfriendly... dont worry right now I quite like it to have a up to date desktop... gnome 2.8 rocks. ?=
[04:22] <seb128> mpjung: users don't use the consoel
[04:22] <seb128> console even
[04:22] <mpjung> Im not a pure user... I mainly use the system for developing :)
[04:22] <mpjung> but well... I just *like* the extra suggar of a decent desktop.
[04:23] <seb128> mpjung: I mean such options are not the priority area to get "user friendly" tools
[04:23] <mpjung> Hmm... damn ubuntu is lacking the -plain- dvorak layout... only the localized layouts are available.
[04:23] <mpjung> seb128, true.
[04:25] <mpjung> hmm... where can I get the dvorak keyboard layout from?
[04:25] <[Bas] > really cool, doom3 installed and runs seamless on ubuntu here. need a new videocard though ;)
[04:34] <looksaus> what's the easiest way to burn an audio cd in ubuntu?
[04:34] <looksaus> (I have a number of 44.1 KHz stereo .wav files ready
[04:34] <looksaus> )
[04:36] <mpjung> ok... lets hope it works... brb (hopefully)
[04:37] <ranman> looksaus: install k3b
[04:38] <looksaus> ranman, and a Gnome solution?
[04:39] <mpjung> hmm... now with the right layout, the correct x server... just great. :)
[04:39] <ranman> You might try xcdroast...
[04:39] <ranman> But it looks like from the website that k3b is the endorsed, even  though it is a kde app...
[04:40] <looksaus> ranman, synaptic doesn't seem to find it...
[04:40] <looksaus> ah, have to enable universe...
[04:41] <SuperLag> any Courier gurus in the house? :(
[04:41] <ranman> hold on, I am looking..
[04:42] <ranman> I just switched from deb unstable... not sure of total packages yet..
[04:42] <opi^work> SuperLag: use Posftfix/Exim & teapop ;)
[04:42] <SuperLag> what is teapop?
[04:42] <SuperLag> I've got the Postfix part working.  I can send fine.
[04:42] <opi^work> POP3 server
[04:42] <ranman> looksaus: eroaster..
[04:42] <SuperLag> I think it's procmail courier where I'm getting hung up
[04:42] <opi^work> SuperLag: you need both SMTP and POP/IMAP server ;)
[04:43] <SuperLag> right
[04:43] <SuperLag> I want IMAP
[04:43] <opi^work> d'oh
[04:43] <opi^work> so I can't help you :(
[04:43] <ranman> gcombust...
[04:44] <deFrysk> eroaster
[04:44] <ranman> SuperLag, there are many really nice tutorials for Postfix and Courier.. Look google, and add both words..
[04:45] <ranman> SuperLag: What are you having trouble with in Courior? I use courier, and do not remember having to do too much..
[04:45] <SuperLag> ranman: yeah, I've been using them.  So what happens when you do, and it STILL doesn't work? :)
[04:45] <SuperLag> ranman: I'm not receiving any mail.
[04:45] <SuperLag> I can send just fine.
[04:46] <ranman> That is Postfix problem...
[04:46] <ranman> Are you checking out the mail log?
[04:46] <looksaus> ranman, thx
[04:46] <SuperLag> Oct  5 09:45:51 localhost master[23467] : fatal: master_spawn: exec /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: No such file or directory
[04:47] <SuperLag> Oct  5 09:46:25 localhost master[23482] : fatal: master_spawn: exec /usr/lib/postfix/pickup: No such file or directory
[04:47] <SuperLag> that's in mail.err
[04:47] <ranman> You set up the maildirs correctly? with Postfix setup for that?
[04:47] <SuperLag> I believe so, yes.
[04:47] <ranman> LookSaus: no prob..
[04:47] <SuperLag> maildirmake
[04:47] <looksaus> gone, thx everyone
[04:48] <ranman> check the permissions.. If you ran the command as root, your user process does not have permission to write..
[04:49] <ranman> tail -F your /var/log/messages and send yourself mail from Yahoo, or MSN... That is what those accounts are good for, to debug mailserver setup..
[04:50] <ranman> check the mydomain, and relay settings for Postfix, those are a pain if you do not set correctly..
[04:53] <pdamoc> hello
[04:53] <pdamoc> is there an assimilation strategy of ubuntu?
[04:53] <ranman> resistence is futile...
[04:54] <pdamoc> ok ok... but the strategy? roadmap ... stuff like that
[04:55] <ranman> Do not know the roadmap, check the wiki.. This is mainly users ...
[04:55] <pdamoc> many install stuff and become users BUT with propper strategy users can be turned into developers
[04:55] <ranman> Developers poke their heads in once in awhile..
[04:55] <pdamoc> wiki is almost empty
[04:56] <ranman> Yeah, give them time.. They are still new..
[04:56] <pdamoc> :D
[04:56] <pdamoc> new? I thought the next version will be 4.1
[04:56] <pdamoc> :)
[04:57] <Kamion> 4.10 is a representation of the date
[04:57] <Kamion> short for 2004.10
[04:57] <ranman> Are you looking to  become a developer?
[04:57] <pdamoc> oops
[04:57] <Kamion> but without the "Windows 2004" factor
[04:57] <pdamoc> well... I'm not even an user :)
[04:57] <pdamoc> but... maybe
[04:57] <ranman> Are you at least a debian user?
[04:58] <pdamoc> winXP
[04:58] <pdamoc> :)
[04:58] <pdamoc> forced by Adobe Corp. (Photoshop)
[04:58] <suzan_> i've got a little question: i have win xp on my machine and now i want to install ubuntu besides it
[04:58] <ranman> hmmm, one of the walking dead... No wonder you were speaking of assimulation... haha
[04:58] <suzan_> this is possible, isn't it?
[04:58] <pdamoc> :)