[00:42] <robert_ancell> GunnarHj, I'm not sure about other desktops, but when I looked into fixing the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP usage it seemed that very few (if any) of them make sense anyway.
[00:42] <robert_ancell> So if we fix those first we'll be able to see what remains.
[00:42] <robert_ancell> I think the answer is if it is being used by other desktops it still makes sense to show all the options
[00:55] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Of course, as long as we aren't sure that it won't be used by other desktops, it makes sense to keep the options. I suppose that it's a little late in the cycle to figure it out. I'll try this weekend to make an MP which fixes the tests so they handle cases like "GNOME-Flashback:Unity" properly. And also make sure that u-c-c does not override an existing XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP value, but only sets "Unity" as a fallba
[00:55] <GunnarHj> ck if XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP is empty for some reason.
[00:56] <robert_ancell> GunnarHj, I think it's been set because some of the panels have OnlyShowIn=Unity. Which seems to me like they should just be fixed to either have a list of desktops or u-c-c should show them regardless of what desktop it is in.
[00:57] <robert_ancell> I'm fixing GTK+ at the moment
[01:04] <GunnarHj> robert_ancell: If I understand it correctly, the panels will be shown in the case of OnlyShowIn=Unity as long as Unity is one of the elements in XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP's colon separated list. So in the example I mentioned (GNOME-Flashback:Unity) the panels should be shown. (But I haven't tested yet.) In that case, it's the remaining XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP tests within u-c-c which need to be modified (split on ":" etc.).
[03:00] <robert_ancell> attente, ping?
[03:01] <robert_ancell> attente, oh, now I get it. No problem.
[05:53] <hikiko> hi
[06:46] <didrocks> good morning
[08:19] <andyrock> good morning
[08:47] <darkxst> GunnarHj, late reply to your XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP comment, the desktop files are not an issue, yes OnlyShowIn=Unity works fine with GNOME-Flashback:Unity
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: bonjour ! comment ça va?
[08:51] <seb128> salut pitti, ça va bien et toi ?
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: je vais mieux, merci
[08:52] <seb128> super !
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: gnome-desktop got removed in Debian; we still have one rdepends, banshee
[08:52] <seb128> how did Debian fix that?
[08:53] <pitti> https://tracker.debian.org/news/712556
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: that's a newer upstream version, though
[08:54] <seb128> right, i was going to say
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: (doing process-removals today, and it's depressing..)
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: so, do we want to merge and follow along? or keep that old stuff?
[08:54] <seb128> (why? less to maintain is good no?)
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: well, once you can *actually* remove packages, yes :) but I'm running into countless cases of "one rdepends left in Ubuntu which hasn't been merged/updated in ages"
[08:55] <pitti> I did a few, but this is a ratsnest :)
[08:56] <seb128> I've no idea about banshee, I never really used it and didn't look at it for years
[08:56] <pitti> right, i. e. do we still actually want to keep it}
[08:56] <pitti> ?
[08:56] <seb128> if the new version is only in experimental there might be a reason
[08:56] <seb128> I assume we do
[08:56] <pitti> seb128: ah no, unstable has https://tracker.debian.org/news/712782
[08:57] <seb128> having things in universe doesn't cost us much, we can as well keep it
[08:57] <pitti> which also dropped the deps
[08:57] <seb128> nice
[08:57] <pitti> well, it's still growing tech debt
[08:57] <seb128> let's just do that then
[08:57] <pitti> Version: 2.9.0+really2.6.2-3ubuntu1
[08:57] <seb128> it's not like universe was close from not have all sort of old unmaintained things
[08:57] <pitti> so at some point we wanted to go back, but I don't have the details any more
[08:57] <seb128> having*
[08:57] <seb128> or had ever been
[08:57] <pitti> at some point we had ubuntuone integration and all that, perhaps that's all obsolete
[08:58] <seb128> yeah
[08:58] <pitti> Downgrade to 2.6.1 -- 2.9.x is unstable and 3.0 won't arrive in time for
[08:58] <pitti>     release
[08:58] <pitti> (09 Feb 2014)
[08:59] <seb128> if somebody wants to update it/clean patches they can go for it
[08:59] <pitti> I suppose that's still true :)
[08:59] <pitti> well, that's the thing -- nobody does it
[08:59] <seb128> I wouldn't spend efforts on universe things
[08:59] <seb128> right
[08:59] <pitti> (and no, I've already touched too many KDE packges to pile up even more TIL)
[08:59] <seb128> like for some other 10k packages in universe
[08:59] <seb128> I would just ignore it
[08:59] <willcooke> morning all
[08:59] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:59] <willcooke> TheMuso, be with you in 5
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: this all started with me cleaning up some wx2.8 stuff for removing gst 0.10; shouldn't have done this :)
[09:00] <TheMuso> willcooke: No worries.
[09:00]  * TheMuso waves to everybody else. :)
[09:00]  * pitti waves back to TheMuso
[09:01] <seb128> pitti, good man, trying to fight the universe ;-)
[09:01] <Laney> morning!
[09:01] <pitti> hey Laney
[09:01] <seb128> hey TheMuso
[09:01] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: do I look green and really musculous yet?
[09:02] <darkxst> Hey Laney seb128 willcooke
[09:02] <seb128> we need a sprint or UDS so I can tell you :p
[09:02] <seb128> hey
[09:02] <Laney> what's up?
[09:03] <pitti> http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/88/AoU_Hulk_0004.png/revision/latest?cb=20150608160344 ← me running process-removals
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, going to clean up libgnome gnome-vfs etc from the archive next, right? ;-)
[09:04]  * seb128 hides
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: the cleaning isn't the problem :)
[09:04] <darkxst> enjoying the wet weather for a change ;)
[09:05] <darkxst> good time to do a pilot shift when you can't physically leave the house ;)
[09:08] <seb128> indeed!
[09:08] <pitti> checking for Mono 2.0 GAC for Mono.Cairo.dll... not found
[09:08] <pitti> configure: error: missing required Mono 2.0 assembly: Mono.Cairo.dll
[09:08] <pitti> ^ awesome, banshee is FTBFS
[09:09] <pitti> so at some point doko will haunt you anyway :)
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, how did you manage to get a vivid upload to xenial?
[09:09] <seb128> "xchat-indicator (0.3.11-0ubuntu7) vivid; urgency=medium"
[09:09] <seb128> "  * Add hexchat-indicator."
[09:09] <seb128> that's confusing
[09:09] <pitti> wut?
[09:09] <seb128> on xenial-changes
[09:10] <pitti> ah sorry, part of cleaning up xchat, just noise
[10:10] <willcooke> Trevinho, hikiko - Shadows vs CSD fixes....
[10:10] <willcooke> So hikiko is close to landing a fix for shadows in Compiz which will fix it for all apps not just Gtk
[10:10] <willcooke> hikiko, you think it will be finished today?
[10:11] <willcooke> and how much work is there still to do on E Zoom?
[10:11] <hikiko> I hope so willcooke
[10:11] <hikiko> on ezoom I am blocked at an issue
[10:11] <hikiko> transformation stack
[10:11] <hikiko> I use compiz transformations with nux but there's something that doesn't work
[10:11] <hikiko> if I fix tha
[10:11] <hikiko> that
[10:12] <hikiko> then it's like 2 days work
[10:12] <hikiko> the trick there is to pass the compiz ezoom transformation to all the nux components
[10:12] <hikiko> but for some reason some of them misbehave
[10:12] <Trevinho> hikiko: as I said, if you can figure out that ezoom thing, it would be cool... As it helps in a11y. As for gtk apps I think we're all set now. Not the best fix, but it's good enough and we can then try to fix it better later (and in case SRU to xenial), but the one we've now to me is fine.
[10:12] <hikiko> and I am looking for that "reason" :.
[10:12] <hikiko> :/
[10:13] <hikiko> well, the thing is that the proper fix is almost done and will work with all transparent windows
[10:13] <hikiko> if qt decides to have transparency
[10:13] <hikiko> that will work too
[10:13] <hikiko> your hack is cool but works only with gtk
[10:14] <hikiko> so, depends on how much we want to support everything
[10:14] <hikiko> or just gtk
[10:14] <Trevinho> yeah, but it's all we need for now... as transparent windows are in general something that should care about their shadows by design.
[10:15] <Trevinho> I've seen a branch on compiz side, which is only gtk related, but we can't do that without changing the whole compiz geo system (which is something we can't do now)
[10:15] <Trevinho> instead if you can extract alpha from windows and get its shape it would be cool, but still we can't apply that to all windows... Since we can't be sure that a window is already providing a shadow (and thus double-shadowing it). I think to cairo-dock for example
[10:16] <hikiko> you mean that we don't need a general solution that supports all the windowxs?
[10:16] <hikiko> what do you mean?
[10:16] <hikiko> we have 1- rectangular windows (supported)
[10:16] <hikiko> 2- shaped windows (supported)
[10:17] <hikiko> 3- windows that are not shaped - not rectangular and have alpha (under construction)
[10:17] <hikiko> how it comes and we double shadow them?
[10:18] <Trevinho> Yeah, 3 is fine, but as I said if you try apps like cair-dock, or many other alpha windows around, they already provide their own shadow. Since being alpha is a contract with compositor that says: "I'm caring about my own shadows". So, for gtk ones or anyone supporting us, we can say "Ok, I'm alpha, but I still want your shadows". we unfortunately can't
[10:18] <Trevinho> apply that to any window, without risking regressions
[10:19] <Trevinho> Anyway, if you can get 3 on is nice, but I think we can now delay that compared to ezoom.
[10:19] <hikiko> 1 day? :p
[10:19] <Trevinho> If you have some code I can look at, I might help anwyay
[10:19] <Trevinho> ok
[10:21] <willcooke> ok, hard dead line is midday UTC tomorrow.  If it's not done, then work stops there and we move to E Zoom.  How's that sound hikiko, Trevinho?
[10:21] <hikiko> fine for me
[10:21] <Trevinho> k
[10:25] <willcooke> the clock is ticking . . . . . .
[10:25] <willcooke> ;)
[10:25] <willcooke> good luck!
[10:39] <muktupavels> hikiko, https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/compiz/add-gtk-frame-extents-to-net-supported/+merge/257303
[10:49] <Trevinho> muktupavels: we can't have that without proper geometry rework... And it's too tricky to get it done with few lines unforunately
[10:50] <Trevinho> anyway....
[10:50] <hikiko> lol https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/compiz/compiz.black-dots-fix
[10:50]  * Trevinho drives back to Florence
[10:50] <hikiko> ok he did it first I approve it in a sec
[10:50] <Trevinho> hikiko: no, please...
[10:50] <hikiko> why not?
[10:51] <hikiko> it doesn't seem to damage anything else?
[10:51] <Trevinho> hikiko: enabling that, changes the way gtk exposes their area. And it creates a bigger input area which breaks things for us
[10:51] <Trevinho> https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/compiz/add-gtk-frame-extents-to-net-supported/+merge/257303/comments/680812
[10:51] <muktupavels> Trevinho, I posted link because hikiko branch had same fix and it had some comments...
[10:52] <Trevinho> yeah, hikiko see the comments
[10:52] <hikiko> sec
[10:52] <Trevinho> so without fixing the compiz geometry we can't land that.
[10:53] <Trevinho> and removing these borders from compiz geo seems to be harder than expected. I spent more than a week on that, but it's problematic
[10:53] <hikiko> I know what you mean
[10:53] <hikiko> that the pixmap
[10:54] <hikiko> has some space for decorations around
[10:54] <hikiko> well we can just clip the image to remove it isn't it?
[10:57] <Trevinho> hikiko: yeah, but I failed in doing that
[10:59] <Trevinho> anyway, for removing the black dotsit's not a problem patching gtk and using a rgba surface in unity, so, we can live without that change
[10:59]  * Trevinho has to go
[10:59] <muktupavels> Trevinho, hikiko: does not gtk+ add bigger input area only when window-frame has margin != 0 and/or box-shadow != none. If Ambiance does not add that css then should not be problem.
[10:59] <hikiko> I was going to clip the pixmap on unity anyway because I need that for the shadows
[10:59] <hikiko> +1 muktupavels
[11:00] <hikiko> I think so, I'll test that
[12:48] <bregma> willcooke, did you get that ask from the ubuntu-docs team about desktop change notes for 16.04?
[12:50] <willcooke> bregma, I didn't, but strangely enough I sent an email out about 10 mins ago to start gathering release notes
[12:51] <willcooke> davmor2, cyphermox - do you know - are we supposed to inhibit the screensave during a dist-upgrade?
[12:52] <willcooke> davmor2, I forgot to disable the screensaver, and not I'm stuck at the prompt again.  Sigh.  Start again.
[12:52] <willcooke> *now
[12:52] <davmor2> willcooke: there was mention of it I think in one of the logs
[12:53] <willcooke> bregma, oh, maybe I misunderstood the question?
[12:54] <bregma> willcooke, sound like you're on it, just crossing the task off my list
[12:55] <willcooke> bregma, oki cool.  Very strange timing though, like I thought of it minutes before you mentioned it.  Maybe be have a physic link?
[12:55] <willcooke> what's that?  Take a hammer from the shed?
[12:56] <davmor2> willcooke: 2016-03-10 11:46:23,912 DEBUG Removing 'xscreensaver' (ubuntu-desktop PostUpgradeRemove rule) I'd say that was a pretty brutal way to ensure that the screensaver didn't kick in :)
[12:57] <willcooke> nah, that wont stop it running though
[12:58] <willcooke> there is a "nice" way to inhibit it
[12:58] <willcooke> but perhaps we shouldnt have to
[14:44] <cyphermox> willcooke: screensaver or not should not make a difference in the upgrade, things shouldn't crash as a result of the upgrade.
[14:44] <willcooke> cyphermox, oki
[14:45] <willcooke> trying again with screensaver etc turned off
[14:45] <willcooke> just to see if I can find the exact moment it dies
[14:48] <willcooke> ah
[14:49] <willcooke> I wonder if this is why we're not getting GUI prompts davmor2
[14:50] <willcooke> Something about debconf needs a screen at least 13 lines high, blah blah, falling back to readline
[14:50] <willcooke> I'm running the install on a vbox
[14:50] <willcooke> with a poor resolution
[14:50] <willcooke> that might explain that issue anyway.
[14:57] <cyphermox> willcooke: readline should be "sufficient" and the prompts would then show in the attached terminal window
[14:57] <willcooke> cyphermox, yeah, thats what happens
[14:57] <cyphermox> I mean, I see that the install on davmor's machine i stuck waiting for input for ssl, but I don't think that's the issue -- the no X is more of a problem
[14:58] <cyphermox> that said, I'm logged on SSH on dave's machine, and I'll try to debug compiz live maybe?
[14:58] <cyphermox> did we have a crash dump for it yet?
[14:59] <willcooke> dont think so
[15:07] <willcooke> okay
[15:08] <willcooke> the point at which the upgrader UI crashes is about here...
[15:08] <willcooke> Preparing to unpack .../xfonts-base_1%3a1.0.4+nmu1_all.deb ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Unpacking xfonts-base (1:1.0.4+nmu1) over (1:1.0.3) ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Preparing to unpack .../xfonts-scalable_1%3a1.0.3-1.1_all.deb ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Unpacking xfonts-scalable (1:1.0.3-1.1) over (1:1.0.3-1) ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Preparing to unpack .../xinit_1.3.4-3_amd64.deb ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Unpacking xinit (1.3.4-3) over (1.3.2-1) ...
[15:08] <willcooke> Preparing to unpack .../xinput_1.6.2-1_amd64.deb ...
[15:09] <willcooke> and then the upgrade seems to stop here:
[15:09] <willcooke> Setting up python-debtagshw (2.0.1ubuntu6) ...
[15:09] <willcooke> Setting up ureadahead (0.100.0-19) ...
[15:09] <willcooke> Setting up perl-modules-5.22 (5.22.1-8) ...
[15:09] <willcooke> and it kicked me out of one of my SSH sessions
[15:10] <cyphermox> ok
[15:11] <cyphermox> that was using the graphical release-upgrader?
[15:11] <willcooke> that was using "update-manager -d"
[15:11] <cyphermox> (ie. not do-release-upgrade -d in a terminal)
[15:11] <cyphermox> ok
[15:11] <cyphermox> I probably wouldn't make a difference, but just in case
[15:11] <willcooke> so I had top running in another ssh session
[15:12] <willcooke> and it kicked me out of that session at about  15:05:58
[15:12] <willcooke> I still have one ssh session open some hout
[15:12] <willcooke> how
[15:12] <willcooke> and in syslog
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:05:22 test14to16 ModemManager[28639]: <info>  Couldn't find support for device at '/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:03.0': not supported by any plugin
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:05:57 test14to16 dbus[394]: [system] Reloaded configuration
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:06:00 test14to16 dbus[394]: message repeated 2 times: [ [system] Reloaded configuration]
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:06:00 test14to16 dbus[394]: [system] Activating service name='org.freedesktop.UDisks2' (using servicehelper)
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:06:00 test14to16 udisksd[29495]: udisks daemon version 2.1.7 starting
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:06:00 test14to16 dbus[394]: [system] Activating service name='org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1' (using servicehelper)
[15:12] <willcooke> Mar 10 15:06:00 test14to16 polkitd[29500]: started daemon version 0.105 using authority implementation `local' version `0.105'
[15:14] <willcooke> oh, and I had disabled the lock and the screensaver before running this upgrade
[15:15] <willcooke> last thing in dpkg.log:
[15:15] <willcooke> 2016-03-10 15:06:26 status installed libgtkmm-3.0-1v5:amd64 3.18.0-1
[15:18] <willcooke> ummmm
[15:18] <willcooke> I wonder
[15:18] <willcooke> apt.log:
[15:18] <willcooke> MarkDelete python3.4 [ amd64 ] < 3.4.3-1ubuntu1~14.04.3 > ( python ) FU=0
[15:19] <cyphermox> willcooke: gtkmm is not typically something that would break everything
[15:19] <willcooke> I wonder if the installer has removed python from underneath the installer?
[15:19] <cyphermox> though a GLib / Gtk upgrade at the wrong time might cause crashes
[15:20] <cyphermox> willcooke: I thought all of X crashed?
[15:20] <willcooke> oh, right yeah
[15:20] <willcooke> yeah my X session is dead now
[15:21] <willcooke> nothing in /var/crash
[15:21] <willcooke> xorg log:
[15:21] <willcooke> [  6323.283] (EE) FBDEV(0): FBIOBLANK: Invalid argument
[15:21] <willcooke> [  6323.297] (EE) FBDEV(0): FBIOBLANK: Invalid argument
[15:24] <willcooke> restarted lightdm
[15:25] <willcooke> init: Error while reading from descriptor: Bad file descriptor
[15:25] <willcooke> instead of a greeter
[15:34] <GunnarHj> darkxst: Thanks for confirming about multidesktop XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP values and .desktop files.
[15:53] <davmor2> willcooke, cyphermox: I think it just hates us :'(
[15:54] <willcooke> :((
[15:55] <davmor2> oh Laney looks like you might actually be able to detach the hdmi lead from the xps now without kernel panicking the system \o/ I don't want to try it again incase it was pure fluke :D
[16:48] <Laney> davmor2: :-o
[17:10] <attente> Laney: hey, is there some way to ask someone (aptdaemon/packagekit) over dbus to do an apt update? i tried org.debian.apt.RefreshCache but that didn't populate /var/lib/app-info/
[17:16] <Laney> attente: I'm not sure, I would ask juliank in #ubuntu-devel - he's more likely to know
[17:17] <attente> ok, thanks
[17:17] <Laney> maybe that function does it in some different way that doesn't run the Post-Update-Success hook
[17:18] <attente> Laney: it's hard to tell what that function does at all. it seems to do nothing afaict
[17:19] <Laney> what does (e.g.) software-properties use?
[17:31] <attente> Laney: ok, desrt just helped me out here. apparently i have to create a transaction and call GetUpdates on it
[17:33] <Laney> cool
[17:33] <Laney> sorry I don't know those APIs very well & I'm in the middle of my quest to kill juju
[17:42] <desrt> Laney: we kinda want to expand your original bug
[17:42] <desrt> and make it so that we do a refresh on startup any time we detect that the last time 'apt update' was run is more than 1 day ago (or never)
[17:43] <desrt> it turns out that the timestamp on /var/cache/apt is a pretty good place to start -- but it's a bit complicated if this directory was created during install and nobody actually ran 'apt update' yet
[17:43] <Laney> desrt: as long as you fix the bug then you can expand whatever you want
[17:43] <Laney> the rest is a matter for robert_ancell
[17:43] <desrt> it would also be ideal if we could plumb this through packagekit...
[17:44] <desrt> well, fixing it is easy enough now that we found the right set of APIs
[17:44] <Laney> sehr gut
[17:44] <desrt> but "first install and user didn't apt update yet" is not the only place where apps may be missing
[17:44] <desrt> could be nobody ran "apt update" in months and apps got added in the meantime
[17:45] <Laney> update-manager is updating for you
[17:45] <desrt> just not right after install :p
[17:45] <Laney> right
[17:45] <desrt> can we fix that? :D
[17:46] <Laney> not for the general 'sudo apt install gnome-software' case
[17:46] <desrt> i ate you
[17:47] <desrt> actually, i'm kinda hungry
[17:47] <Laney> I think that ximion said that g-s already does have this timed refresh thing
[17:47] <Laney> just not the always-do-it-if-empty case
[17:47] <desrt> ya... i think it stores the timestamp int he user session tho
[17:47] <desrt> we could do the same here....... just seems ugly to have 100 copies of timestamps stored per user for the same thing (which is really system-wide)
[17:48] <Laney> for apt it is...
[17:48] <desrt> like, even separate copies of it stored for the same user, even
[17:48] <desrt> true.
[17:48]  * desrt snaps her fingers
[17:48] <Laney> anyways!
[17:48] <desrt> ya.  a bit of a sidetrack here
[17:48] <Laney> As long as updaters have it working
[17:48] <desrt> seems that the easiest thing to do now is to fix the bug as filed, using the dbus api
[17:48] <Laney> any extra coolness is cool too
[17:49] <ximion> Laney: that timed refresh doesn't happen though if you patch out the g-s daemon mode
[17:49] <desrt> it's cool to be cool!
[17:49] <desrt> kaj mojoseco mojosas
[17:49] <Laney> ximion: ok I didn't track what they did on the client side to be honest
[17:49] <ximion> Laney: AFAIr removed that feature ^^
[17:50] <ximion> (but better check for that, don't take my word for it)
[17:51] <attente> we disabled daemon mode except in the case where it's explicitly run with --gapplication-service
[17:51] <desrt> is it DBusActivatable?
[17:51] <attente> yes
[17:52] <desrt> so then it's always run with --gapplication-service...
[18:08] <willcooke> g'nigth all
[18:08] <willcooke> night
[18:12] <Laney> me too, see you
[18:15] <seb128> night Laney & co
[19:46] <desrt> good night europeans
[20:58] <robert_ancell> tkamppeter, I'm looking at the unity-settings-daemon code and the print notification plugin seems completely disabled. Does that make sense? I'm going to drop all the code for it if that's the case.
[21:06] <Trevinho> Mh, with recent changes I did, I'm about to think that all the apps we patched to get headerbar would just look better as native... 🙊
[21:06] <Trevinho> starting from https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/toolbar-mode-headerbar-gradient/+merge/288701 (and related gtk patch)
[21:07] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, yeah, they look nice now
[21:07] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: about that.... can you give a look at the gtk branch? 😃
[21:08] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, which branch?
[21:08] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: https://code.launchpad.net/+branch/~3v1n0/gtk/unity-maximized-headerbar-buttons-hide
[21:09] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, you have an unused local variable "unity_environment" in the patch
[21:09] <Trevinho> I do use it...
[21:09] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, you use priv->unity_environment
[21:10] <robert_ancell> oh, duh
[21:10] <robert_ancell> reading the patch wrong
[21:10] <Trevinho> :)
[21:10] <robert_ancell> I thought that was at the top of the function
[21:10] <robert_ancell> Reviewing patches really feels wrong
[21:10] <robert_ancell> It's like we have a better system for all this... version control?
[21:10] <Trevinho> Actually I should probably change it so that it only hides the title if != from toplevel window title
[21:10] <robert_ancell> ;)
[21:11] <Trevinho> Maybe somneone could set an headerbar title that is different...
[21:12] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, yeah, I was thinking that might even be likely. Do HeaderBar apps even set the traditional title?
[21:13] <robert_ancell> Also, the placement of the title is probably significant (i.e. being centered)
[21:13] <robert_ancell> Or does Unity handle that
[21:50] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: placement shouldn't be a problem,...
[21:51] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: I've updated the patch to care about window title, though.
[22:20] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, I did not really have a look at the print notifications on the desktop. CUPS produces notifications on D-Bus which I have already made use of in cups-browsed (making use of some code snippets of larsu's printer-indicator).
[22:21] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, I think it is a good idea to have some kind of notifications, so that users can access their jobs and know which printers are currently free.
[22:21] <robert_ancell> tkamppeter, I think g-s-d had some notification system that we disabled, so it's no longer required in u-s-d
[22:23] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, could be either the printer indicator showing a printer at the top right and having a menu to reach the print queues or like in mpt's printing design a printer in the launcher on the left, doing more or less the same thing.
[22:24] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, if both g-s-d and u-s-d are running, then only one needs to handle printing notification (to avoid duplicates), so if both contain the code, it can be dropped in one.
[22:24] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, and g-s-d is probably the better place as it is running in both Unity and GNOME desktops.
[22:25] <robert_ancell> tkamppeter, u-s-d checks if it is running in Unity and disables the code. I just wanted to check you didn't expect u-s-d to provide this functionality
[22:27] <tkamppeter> robert_ancell, I did not code anything of the print notification functionality for the desktop, we only should make sure not to duplicate functionality to ease maintaining the code and make sure that all users get notifications, both of GNOME and of Unity.


[03:17] <akk> bkerensa: When you talk to your friend with the UEFI problem, ask if the machine can still boot from USB. I'm curious.
[03:17] <akk> (If someone had a Secure Boot problem and couldn't load grub from the hard drive, they could carry around a tiny USB stick with grub on it, maybe.)
[04:30] <jyo> Hooray for the LoCo election?
[04:30] <pleia2> hah, we never have enough nominees :)
[04:31] <jyo> Go go jtatum this year? :)
[04:31] <pleia2> yay jtatum!
[04:46] <MarkDude> Who is the new lead?
[04:47] <MarkDude> jtatum, ? good choice- who else?
[04:47] <pleia2> MarkDude: details here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-October/001843.html
[04:47] <pleia2> no one yet, old terms havent expired :)
[04:52]  * MarkDude was not trying to push anyone out of course :)
[04:53] <MarkDude> no objections here. Jack was good, I was hoping to have another person to fill his spot to ALSO have a first name that starts with J
[04:53] <MarkDude> That was my main requirement :)
[04:55] <pleia2> lol
[04:57] <MarkDude> Oh wait. I wanted to recall Darkwing - for ignoring the duck within
[04:59] <MarkDude> I mean sure Disney could sue him out of house and home- he should have taken the dumb, idealogical stance and explained to his kids why they no longer licked Mickey
[04:59] <pleia2> licked?
[05:00] <MarkDude> uh liked
[05:00] <MarkDude> :)
[05:00] <pleia2> disney land must be very different than disney world...
[05:00] <pleia2> oh :)
[05:00] <MarkDude> Much smaller
[05:00] <pleia2> reminds me, I am going to disney world this week \o/
[05:07] <bkerensa> akk: Will do
[05:07] <bkerensa> =o
[05:07]  * bkerensa spoke to soon
[05:08] <bkerensa> MarkDude: Are you a LoCo player?
[05:08] <bkerensa> :D
[05:08]  * bkerensa is semi-annoyed with Google's new Authorship Markup
[05:09] <MarkDude> player?
[05:09]  * MarkDude is more pimp, playa, hustla
[05:10] <MarkDude> rumor has it that is how Lyz got her nick - the Star Wars thing was a ruse
[05:10] <pleia2> oh not you too :)
[05:10] <MarkDude> lol
[05:11] <MarkDude> Either that or when I am in Hayward - I see Playa street, and think of beaches
[05:12] <bkerensa> =:o
[05:12]  * bkerensa loves it when people reshare his post and then people leave trollish comments demanding me to swiftly addresss their concerns elsewhere
[05:12] <bkerensa> :P
[05:12] <bkerensa> the pitch forks are out :D sharks are a circling
[05:15] <bkerensa> pleia2: Do you know if webdav encrypts data or passes it is plaintext?
[05:16] <pleia2> bkerensa: not a clue, sorry
[05:16] <bkerensa> kk
[05:16] <broder> bkerensa: i wouldn't expect webdav to at the protocol level
[05:16] <broder> i'd expect that you'd do it over ssl
[05:17] <bkerensa> broder: Ok... I had connected to my box.net account via WebDav in nautilus
[05:17] <bkerensa> and if I'm mobile (not at home) I dont really wanna transmit via a protocol in plaintext
[05:17] <bkerensa> :P
[05:18] <bkerensa> But I do wanna be able to mount it some how securely
[05:18] <broder> bkerensa: are you using http:// or https://?
[05:19] <bkerensa> webdav://
[05:19] <MarkDude> bkerensa, haters gonna hate, trolls gonna get erased
[05:19] <bkerensa> MarkDude: Nah its ok... I approved the comment and kindly thanked him for his two cents
[05:19] <bkerensa> :P
[05:20] <MarkDude> That works
[05:20] <bkerensa> pleia2: Xubuntu seems to be more popular via torrent then Ubuntu or other variants
[05:20] <bkerensa> :D
[05:20] <bkerensa> atleast my client is seeding xubuntu the most
[05:21]  * MarkDude caalls that the jo no method. He is very casual with the people that try to sucker him into bikeshedding
[05:21] <broder> bkerensa: what if you try just doing https:// instead of webdav://?
[05:21] <bkerensa> broder: Ill try that right now
[05:21] <bkerensa> :D
[05:22] <bkerensa> broder: Also I need to edit fstab to make it mount everytime right?
[05:22] <bkerensa> well or I could make a bash script and have it run after login
[05:24] <bkerensa> MarkDude: You ever gonna grab MarkTerranova.com from me ;)
[05:25] <MarkDude> Oh yes
[05:25] <MarkDude> I need that link again
[05:26] <MarkDude> that was saved in my archived F15 I killed
[05:26] <bkerensa> :D
[05:49] <Faqtotum> webdav has webd feet
[05:52] <MarkDude> quack
[05:56] <Faqtotum> damn it, jim. i'm a duck, not a doctor.
[05:59] <nhaines> bkerensa: webdav is in plaintext and you use webdav over SSL for encryption.
[05:59] <nhaines> bkerensa: and you can try davs://
[06:00] <bkerensa> oh
[06:00] <bkerensa> ok :D
[15:26] <BotenAnna> idk what webdav even is. going to its page it looks like what if wikipedia was invented in 1991
[15:41] <MarkDude> San Jose meetup today. Geekbeat.tv Cali Lewis
[15:42] <MarkDude> http://lividlobster.com/2011/10/15/san-francisco-viewer-meetup-limited-space/
[16:02] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: it's a filesystem over http
[16:03] <BotenAnna> collaborative filewiki editing 2.0 in the cloud!
[16:03] <BotenAnna> synergize!
[16:05] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: it's apple's de facto half-assed alternative to samba
[16:13] <MarkDude> samba apple
[16:14] <MarkDude> They arent related?
[16:15] <Faqtotum> samba is a gnu/linux thing
[16:37] <jdeslip> Got a question for everyone.  Is there a command that returns just the name of the current directory
[16:38] <jdeslip> instead of pwd which gives the whole path
[16:41] <akk> I don't know of one command, but you could do pwd | sed 's_.*/__'
[16:41] <akk> er, nix that, basename `pwd`  is better
[16:45] <nhaines> akk: I didn't know about basename! +1
[16:46] <akk> nhaines: it's handy! dirname does the opposite, if you need both parts.
[16:46] <nhaines> ooh.
[16:58] <jtatum> Faqtotum: webdav is from apple?
[16:58] <Faqtotum> no, but they adopted it for that purpose
[16:59] <jtatum> hm… i thought afp was for that purpose :)
[17:00] <Faqtotum> they used to use afp on their public servers but discontinued that in favor of webdav, back in the 10.3 era
[17:01] <jtatum> ah.. mobileme or some such?
[17:02] <Faqtotum> including that
[17:02] <jtatum> well, that kinda makes sense. wouldn't want to use smb/nfs/afp to publish anything over the internet
[17:02] <jtatum> whereas webdav is actually made for that purpose
[17:42] <jdeslip> akk: thanks!
[19:38] <BotenAnna> btw everyone
[19:38] <BotenAnna> if you dont have an askubuntu account
[19:38] <BotenAnna> well, wtf is wrong with you 8)
[19:38] <MarkDude> lol
[19:39] <BotenAnna> askubuntu owns if you have questions ask me it is the only ubuntu thing i do because it is cool!!
[19:39]  * MarkDude has a long list of things that is wrong with him....
[19:39] <MarkDude> :D
[19:39] <BotenAnna> and you can even sign up with your launchpad account (LIKE I DID) so no excuses!!!
[19:39] <pleia2> the most common complaints are closed source, run by a company and it lacks translations
[19:40] <BotenAnna> still, there's nothing quite like it yet
[19:40] <BotenAnna> and i havent seen anything more capable of providing such high quality answers
[19:40] <BotenAnna> and so quickly, too
[19:41] <BotenAnna> and in a very google-friendly way, idk how many times i've come across a stack exchange site on a search result and it's been helpful
[19:41] <BotenAnna> like, a lot :)
[19:42] <BotenAnna> if they turn totes evil or whatever it wouldn't take us long to make an OSS version of it so I'm only minorly concerned about the closed source thing
[19:43] <pleia2> there is already an open source implementation that debian uses, ubuntu decided not to
[19:43] <pleia2> http://ask.debian.net/
[19:43] <pleia2> Shapado
[19:43] <BotenAnna> other than the broken images everywhere that's not too bad haha
[19:44] <BotenAnna> this one is a bit more rough around the edges
[19:44] <BotenAnna> i can see why canonical said just go with the pretty one :3
[19:45] <pleia2> it was a guy on the community team at canonical, I don't think he did it as a canonical thing though
[19:45] <pleia2> it's a community maintained thing :)
[19:46] <BotenAnna> there's a link to askubuntu in the installer
[19:46] <BotenAnna> so someone did an official thing
[19:46] <pleia2> the installer is developed by the community too!
[19:46] <BotenAnna> thats how i found out about it
[19:46] <pleia2> community is official, canonical is a company that handles trademarks and invests in ubuntu
[19:47] <BotenAnna> I'd assume canonical was the one that said "yeah go ahead and do that with the branding in the installer" but I am not aware of the details of the sausage-making process, ha
[19:47] <pleia2> developers on Ubuntu can be anyone, they don't need to be canonical employees, and they all make decisions together (there are some major decisions that Mark as project leader makes, like switch to Unity)
[19:47] <BotenAnna> esp since shuttleworth has been jobsing the h*ck out recently and obsessing over more UI kind of things
[19:48] <BotenAnna> ah the ubuntu shapado is mainly in spanish
[19:48] <BotenAnna> not surprising
[19:49] <pleia2> actually, he's not the CEO anymore, I don't actually know if he's strictly a canonical employee
[19:49] <BotenAnna> lots of jobs besides CEO!
[19:49] <pleia2> yeah, I don't know if he has a title anymore :)
[19:50] <BotenAnna> On 17 December 2009 Mark announced that, effective March 2010, he would step down as CEO of Canonical to focus energy on product design, partnership and customers
[19:50] <BotenAnna> so basically
[19:50] <BotenAnna> he's being all Steve Jobs now
[19:52] <MarkDude> Mark S has better shirts tho ;)
[19:52] <BotenAnna> tell me about it
[19:52] <BotenAnna> like A FREAKING SPACE SUIT
[19:53] <pleia2> lol
[19:53] <BotenAnna> However, in an early 2009 New York Times article, Shuttleworth said that Canonical's revenue was "creeping" towards $30 million, the company's break-even point.[21]
[19:53] <MarkDude> Space ftw
[19:53] <BotenAnna> so is canonical making money yet? im p impressed if they are
[19:54] <pleia2> no, every time they get close they invest in something new
[19:54] <Faqtotum> they kinda have to
[19:55] <Faqtotum> it's not a tax shelter if it makes money
[19:55] <BotenAnna> lol
[19:56] <Faqtotum> i'm curious: is he chairman of the board?
[20:00] <BotenAnna> in other channels anna is in, a discussion of the male/female ratio of this picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Ubuntu_Developer_Summit_Natty.jpg
[20:01]  * pleia2 missed the Natty UDS
[20:01] <BotenAnna> mostly i find it amusing that there is a higher concentration of girls near the front....
[20:02] <BotenAnna> they thought i wouldn't notice and would get tricked into participating!!!
[20:02] <pleia2> the ubuntu women project has done a lot to encourage women to go, we have a whole page about it on our wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UDS
[20:03] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: there are none on stage-right
[20:04] <BotenAnna> there's a couple, there's the one looking down (and wearing a collar?) near the front, and on the very left edge of the photo, three near the edge
[20:04] <Faqtotum> nonsense. moobs.
[20:04] <BotenAnna> ugly girls are girls too!
[20:04] <Faqtotum> no one said anyone was ugly
[20:05] <Faqtotum> text humor fails.
[20:06] <BotenAnna> well if ugly guys were dismissed from that picture... well i have bad news... ;)
[20:06] <Faqtotum> no one is left?
[20:06] <BotenAnna> basically~
[20:07] <Faqtotum> no surprise to me
[20:08] <Faqtotum> any male who is attractive has no business being in tech, regardless of ability or interest
[20:09]  * MarkDude thinks pic is better with women at front, maybe have jono move farther back also ;)
[20:09] <MarkDude> Faqtotum, So just because I am hot - I should not be here?
[20:09] <MarkDude> ^^^^ sarcasm font
[20:09] <MarkDude> :D
[20:11] <Faqtotum> MarkDude: you're strategically missing when things get really techy, so nya
[20:12] <MarkDude> Well yes, that is called the CM model
[20:12] <MarkDude> Community Manager
[20:12] <MarkDude> aaditya, pingy
[20:13] <BotenAnna> 20:08 < Faqtotum> any male who is attractive has no business being in tech, regardless  of ability or interest
[20:13] <BotenAnna> lol kind of applies to girls as well. im glad im not hideous but also not so conventionally attractive to get a lot of unwanted attention, ha
[20:14] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: sorry, i forgot about aaditya. my bad.
[20:14] <BotenAnna> ??
[20:14] <Faqtotum> attractive and in tech
[20:15] <Faqtotum> oh, it wasn't you who pinged him
[20:15] <MarkDude> Hell, even I can tell aaditya is sexy
[20:15] <MarkDude> :D
[20:15] <BotenAnna> haha i am not familiar with aaditya?
[20:16] <Faqtotum> anyway, no one has to be attractive if they don't want to be
[20:16] <MarkDude> Plus he has deeper voice than Barry White
[20:16] <Faqtotum> no, barry white is deeper
[20:16] <MarkDude> ok Faqtotum on par with
[20:17] <BotenAnna> yet people have to be unattractive even when they don't want to be so so often :(
[20:17] <MarkDude> Nixie Pixel once called him her sexy Indian
[20:17] <Faqtotum> being unattractive rocks
[20:18] <BotenAnna> i am of the opinion that most people can be decent looking with enough effort but levelling taurens and coding while swilling mountain dew IS pretty compelling
[20:18] <MarkDude> Faqtotum, well my my minimally decent looks- I decided to downgrade and go with ironic Fu Manchu mustache. Comfort level good
[20:18] <Faqtotum> MarkDude: whenever i used to take the person i live with anywhere tech-related, the first question out of her mouth was always "is aaditya gonna be there?"
[20:19] <MarkDude> lol
[20:19] <Faqtotum> i'm not kidding
[20:19] <Faqtotum> she really used to say that
[20:19] <MarkDude> Sounds about right. I know Courtney is happy with him being at an event
[20:19] <BotenAnna> haha
[20:19] <MarkDude> Its like he will be there, ok, I can show up
[20:20] <pleia2> MarkDude: is Dallas Braden going to be there?! :)
[20:20] <MarkDude> lol
[20:20] <MarkDude> pleia2, does not talk about it, but Dallas was really really eyeballing the Princess at a baseball game
[20:21] <MarkDude> She of course is happy with MJ, so she did not notice
[20:21] <MarkDude> Or says she did not ;)
[20:22] <pleia2> I never notice
[20:22] <pleia2> I was at a LUG meeting and someone asked me about the toys on my shoes that light up when I walk, "so they light up when you jump?" "yep!" "do it" "ok!"
[20:22]  * pleia2 facepalm
[20:23] <pleia2> my best friend was standing right there laughing, she is the worst wingman ever :)
[20:23] <BotenAnna> sadly, attractive people showing up to OSS stuff probably does more for The Cause than we'd like to admit :X
[20:23] <BotenAnna> lol pleia2
[20:23] <MarkDude> lol, hmmm.
[20:23] <pleia2> I've put on weight though, and gotten older, which mostly means people take me more seriously now, so it's ok :)
[20:24] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: it's true, but still not enough
[20:24] <MarkDude> BotenAnna, true. Also important is the attractive folks that are well grounded. When they act like we are all the same, it makes it more so
[20:24] <pleia2> oh, Obama is at the W
[20:24] <BotenAnna> yeah they can't act like rockstars
[20:24] <MarkDude> Luckily we have a few of those nice types
[20:24] <pleia2> (next door, was wondering why the roads were closed)
[20:25] <BotenAnna> the problem with an everyone-is-invited let's-be-a-community thing is that everyone is invited, ha
[20:25] <MarkDude> lol
[20:25] <pleia2> lol
[20:25] <BotenAnna> not necessarily bad, but it quickly attracts people who long for acceptance
[20:26] <BotenAnna> there's a place for everyone though
[20:27] <pleia2> ok, going to attempt to go to the post office to ship out these Ubuntu CDs, police everywhere downstairs so it's unclear how successfully I'll be :)
[20:27] <pleia2> (they can't stop me from leaving my own building, right?)
[20:28] <pleia2> I suppose I should worry about coming back
[20:28] <MarkDude> Well I think Courtney is a good example of that being done the right way. She dresses all fancy, since she wants to. But does not act like otheress would need to. Its her choice.
[20:28] <MarkDude> Just like pleia2 and using pink. She does not make others do so.
[20:29] <MarkDude> lol- aaditya is going to scrollback and think hmm, what do I say to all of this :D
[20:30] <BotenAnna> i stalked pleia2 on launchpad and am impressed that she owns princessleia.com
[20:32] <pleia2> apparently they can stop us from leaving our building :(
[20:32] <akk> erk! for how long?
[20:32] <pleia2> dunno
[20:33] <akk> That's pretty rude, to do that without giving a lot of advance notice.
[20:33] <pleia2> ah, 10 minutes
[20:33] <philipballew> is there a situation going on down there though?
[20:33] <MarkDude> Pres is acting #likeaboss
[20:34] <akk> oh, 10 min isn't bad.
[20:34] <philipballew> not horrible
[20:34] <akk> barring medical emergencies and such
[20:36] <BotenAnna> also i swear i put my picture on launchpad so i could easily be stalked but it is just showing my icon
[20:38]  * MarkDude gf is still sorta leery of public stuff. She is not sure what to think of me being so easily found by typing my name in Google
[20:38] <MarkDude> I am her only friend on FB, so that is kinda weird
[20:42] <Faqtotum> then stop referring to her as "gf" in a publicly logged channel
[20:45]  * aaditya scrolls back.
[20:46] <aaditya> um.
[20:46] <MarkDude> Faqtotum, the woman in question has been referred to as my gf or my muse. Unless you are friends with me on FB
[20:46] <akk> ooh ... squeal ... IT'S AADITYA!
[20:46] <MarkDude> No further specifics
[20:46] <MarkDude> lol
[20:46] <aaditya> What the heck is going on here!?
[20:46] <MarkDude> Hows it going aaditya
[20:46] <aaditya> It's going, MarkDude!
[20:47] <MarkDude> Looks like you could use punctuation called interroband
[20:47] <MarkDude> interrobang
[20:47] <MarkDude> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrobang
[20:47]  * Faqtotum is familiar with said punctuation, but not how to type it
[20:48] <MarkDude> Faqtotum, copypasta
[20:48] <MarkDude> ‽
[20:48] <MarkDude> There ya go
[20:48] <Faqtotum> like i always do with ♫, you mean?
[20:48] <aaditya> MarkDude: I'd rather use ಠ_ಠ
[20:48] <aaditya> Faqtotum: ಠ_ಠ
[20:48] <MarkDude> lol
[20:49] <aaditya> Now the question is...
[20:50] <aaditya> Why is my sexiness being discussed in a public tech-oriented channel?
[20:50] <aaditya> What did I do to deserve all this?
[20:50] <aaditya> BotenAnna: nice to meet you too.
[20:51] <Faqtotum> aaditya: i think that's been discussed, too
[20:51] <MarkDude> Well it started as not many sexy folks in tech
[20:51]  * aaditya scrolls up harder.
[20:51] <MarkDude> then your name came up
[20:51] <aaditya> Right.
[20:51] <BotenAnna> aaditya: I hear you are quite handsome! XD
[20:51] <BotenAnna> 20:38  * MarkDude gf is still sorta leery of public stuff. She is not sure what to  think of me being so easily found by typing my name in Google
[20:51] <Faqtotum> MarkDude: "came up" you say...
[20:51] <MarkDude> And then I said, well heck- even I can see that
[20:51] <aaditya> BotenAnna: rumors, rumors everywhere.
[20:52] <BotenAnna> honestly i paused a lot before signing up for launchpad
[20:52] <MarkDude> Faqtotum, my name
[20:52] <BotenAnna> but who cares im changing my last name when the gf and i get civil unione'd here when we get around to filling out paperwork, ha
[20:52] <MarkDude> google mark terranova
[20:53] <aaditya> MarkDude: you have an epic webpage!
[20:53] <MarkDude> BotenAnna, are you going to put the old name in parenthesis?
[20:53] <aaditya> That too a .org. lol.
[20:53] <MarkDude> aaditya, it needs updating
[20:53]  * MarkDude just got .com with my name
[20:53] <MarkDude> thx to bkerensa
[20:53] <BotenAnna> MarkDude: different, everywhere, so it's super confusing!
[20:53] <MarkDude> well they 2 will be the same
[20:54] <MarkDude> 1st the gk site, then my vanity crap
[20:54] <Faqtotum> i've refused to have a website of my own since forever, and i'm not changing that
[20:54] <aaditya> MarkDude: How did you acquire .com?
[20:54] <BotenAnna> sometimes my maiden name, sometimes my family name, sometimes a mix of the two!
[20:55] <MarkDude> bkerensa, the awesomeness that is him
[20:56] <aaditya> MarkDude: I have a tool that you can use to make an epic site without having to deal with HTML.
 it's called javascript. what's html?
[20:56] <MarkDude> bring it on aaditya
[20:56] <akk> Tough to have a js site that has no html on it.
[20:56] <BotenAnna> yay a bad joke that probably only made sense to me ^_^
[20:56] <aaditya> I wrote a script that pulls text from a Google Doc, removes the formatting, runs it through a MarkDown parser, and displays a neat HTML5 output.
[20:56] <aaditya> MarkDude: and it runs on AppEngine.
[20:57] <MarkDude> I want to post my blog again, its been down for a while
[20:57] <BotenAnna> lo and behold, gaze upon my mighty homepage http://botenanna.info/
[20:57] <aaditya> So all you do is to update the Google Doc, and the whole thing updates as expected.
[20:57] <aaditya> BotenAnna: it's epic.
[20:58] <aaditya> MarkDude: I've done the same experiment with GitHub. That one was kind of interesting.
[20:58] <BotenAnna> hours of hand-coding html, javascript, shockwave, and silverlight let me tell you
[20:58] <BotenAnna> with a lot of html5 thrown in
[20:59] <aaditya> Upload your MarkDown syntax'ed text to github, and let GitHub make HTML out of it.
[20:59] <aaditya> Yeah, that's easier than anything else.
[20:59] <aaditya> MarkDude: http://pages.github.com/
[21:00] <aaditya> and once you have your site at http://markdude.github.com/, you can easily map it to markterranova.com
[21:01] <MarkDude> Sure git, there is a good non technical way to start out ;P
[21:01] <MarkDude> aaditya, I mean you know me, you have met me
[21:01] <aaditya> MarkDude: nah, it's something you can easily handle in say... 2 commands.
[21:01] <aaditya> Rest is GUI.
[21:01] <MarkDude> Sounds like rainman will need a bit of help
[21:01] <MarkDude> lol
[21:01]  * MarkDude can do it
[21:02] <aaditya> MarkDude: sudo apt-get install git git-cola
[21:02] <aaditya> and when you get stuck, you know where to go XD
[21:03] <MarkDude> So I have to do this on Ubuntu
[21:03] <MarkDude> You have any su -- advice?
[21:06] <Faqtotum> -- ??
[21:08] <BotenAnna> my advice?
[21:08] <BotenAnna> never use su --
[21:08]  * BotenAnna puts on sunglasses
[21:08] <BotenAnna> YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[21:09]  * MarkDude uses Fedora tho much of the time.
[21:10] <BotenAnna> ugh
[21:10] <BotenAnna> we use CentOS at work for our product
[21:10] <BotenAnna> I hate it so much
[21:10] <MarkDude> So writing about my FOSS only in Ubuntu sounds silly
[21:10] <BotenAnna> I have never met a CentOS I've ever liked
[21:10] <Faqtotum> i think she was trying to hint at "never use Fedora"
[21:10] <MarkDude> Well I will not argue with you.
[21:10] <BotenAnna> 21:10 < Faqtotum> i think she was trying to hint at "never use Fedora"
[21:11] <MarkDude> Fair enough. Technically Centos is designed to be like RHELL
[21:11] <BotenAnna> interesting second L you have there
[21:11] <MarkDude> Fedora actually has much newer packages
[21:11] <Faqtotum> RPM is hell, regardless
[21:11]  * MarkDude pretends that was accident ;)
[21:12] <MarkDude> Fedora has like 10 times the packages of rhel
[21:15] <MarkDude> Well at the moment I am using Ubuntu
[21:15]  * MarkDude got apt get you are screwed message
[21:16] <MarkDude> Package git is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[21:16] <MarkDude> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[21:16] <MarkDude> is only available from another source
[21:16] <MarkDude> E: Package git has no installation candidate
[21:16] <MarkDude> rocker@rocker-laptop:~$
[21:16] <pleia2> so way more than 10 minutes, everything is still all blocked off, I had to sneak in via some friendly police in the back
[21:16] <MarkDude> pleia2, used her Force powers,
[21:16] <pleia2> 3 shipments of CDs are on their way to socal :)
[21:16] <MarkDude> This is not eh Princess you are looking for
[21:16] <pleia2> hehe
 #occupylocalpostoffice
[21:18] <pleia2> lol
[21:18] <MarkDude> BotenAnna, lol on your site
[21:19] <pleia2> I'm just trying to live my life here! :)
[21:19] <pleia2> there are protesters outside though
[21:19] <BotenAnna> we are the 99%! of people who want to mail ubuntu cds!
[21:19] <BotenAnna> is that why it was shut down/blocked off?
[21:20] <pleia2> no, I guess they always do this when the president comes within a 2 block radius
[21:20] <pleia2> the occupy folks just decided to wander down from ferry building :)
[21:21] <BotenAnna> oh!
[21:21] <BotenAnna> you're local then :)
[21:21] <BotenAnna> i work in culver city, traffic this morning was fun!!
[21:21] <pleia2> cool :)
[21:22] <pleia2> yeah I live at new montgomery and howard (between 2nd and 3rd)
[21:22] <BotenAnna> i guess i shouldn't be TOO surprised given the channel but CA IS a big state ^_^
[21:22] <pleia2> obama is at the W, which is howard and 3rd
[21:22] <Faqtotum> there's a ferry building in culver city?
[21:22] <BotenAnna> haha yikes :X
[21:22] <pleia2> some protesters: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6281378790/
[21:22] <BotenAnna> president staying next door, good excuse to stay home and work on your oss projects. or night elf. nobody would blame you~
[21:23] <pleia2> too bad I work from home :)
[21:23] <BotenAnna> the protesters have to be an interesting bunch
[21:23] <BotenAnna> tea parties and people upset that obama is as left as we get but still right of center
[21:24] <BotenAnna> ah, Keystone XL is the pipeline thing
[21:24] <BotenAnna> I heard about that
[21:24] <pleia2> I'm pretty sure all protesters in SF are the same people, regardless of the protest
[21:24] <pleia2> buncha hippies in this city :)
[21:24] <pleia2> I love it
[21:24] <nhaines> BotenAnna: pleia2 is not local.  :P
[21:24] <pleia2> nhaines: CDs shipped!
[21:25] <BotenAnna> oh wait pleia2 are you in the bay area?
[21:25] <nhaines> pleia2: thanks!  \o/
[21:25] <pleia2> oh, culver city is LA
[21:25] <BotenAnna> im dumb. obama was here yesterday, left today for the bay area didn't he?
[21:25] <pleia2> I'm in SF
[21:25] <Faqtotum> i've taken several of those online where-are-you-on-the-political-spectrum tests lately
[21:25] <BotenAnna> haha i was like "those streets sound like downtown LA!!"
[21:25] <MarkDude> let me guess Faqtotum
[21:25] <MarkDude> your answer was MEOW?
[21:25] <BotenAnna> haha
[21:25] <Faqtotum> MarkDude: Nyan.
[21:25] <BotenAnna> mine was like -10, -8 :V
[21:25] <MarkDude> lol
[21:26] <Faqtotum> there is an economic axis and a social axis
[21:26] <Faqtotum> on the economic axis, i consistently come up dead-center
[21:27] <Faqtotum> on the social axis, i'm consistently exactly half-way between dead-center and "anarchist"
[21:28] <BotenAnna> i ~*try*~ not to bring up politics around OSS because inevitably I end up in some hours long tangle with a libertarian. just a warning to any libertarians in the room ;D
[21:28] <MarkDude> lol
[21:28] <pleia2> I try not to bring up politics around anyone :)
[21:28] <BotenAnna> there's a place for politics, that place is google plus
[21:28] <nhaines> pleia2: that's what Hitler said!
[21:28] <MarkDude> next thing ya know it turns into debate over who should pay for the sidewalks...
[21:28] <BotenAnna> lol nhaines
[21:28] <pleia2> cats are a good subject, I like talking about cats
[21:28] <Faqtotum> well, plenty of liberty in OSS, so there's common ground
[21:29] <BotenAnna> except libertarianism isn't about liberty its about concentrating power into a ruling elite of corporatists and OH GOD DONT GET ME STARTED (if you want to rebut this: http://gplus.to/BotenAnna :P)
[21:29] <pleia2> nhaines: that was the fastest 0-godwin I've ever seen, nicely done :)
[21:30] <nhaines> pleia2: what can I say?  I'm a pro at Internets.  :)
[21:30] <BotenAnna> but on a basic level yes, the two do fit well which is why I try to be careful XD
[21:30] <BotenAnna> because on the other hand, free community maintained stuff attracts pinkos like me ;P
[21:30] <pleia2> so, who wants to see cat pictures?
[21:30] <BotenAnna> o/
[21:30] <pleia2> :)
[21:30] <nhaines> cats  \o/
[21:30] <pleia2> http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/oncilla/
[21:30] <pleia2> best cats ever
[21:31] <BotenAnna> p.s. im still impressed that you got princessleia.com
[21:31] <BotenAnna> did you like, spawn camp the internet?
[21:31] <pleia2> BotenAnna: yeah, I got lucky (owned princessleia2.com, emailed the old owner of princessleia.com in 2002 and she had "grown out of it" and offered to give it to me)
[21:31] <nhaines> Epic!
[21:31] <BotenAnna> haha wow
[21:31] <pleia2> emailed her to say "hey, nice site" "yeah, you want it?"
[21:32] <nhaines> Now that's how to troll all other SW fans.
[21:32] <BotenAnna> these are some freaking cute kitties
[21:32] <Faqtotum> moar ocelots, pl0x
[21:32] <pleia2> http://zooborns.typepad.com/zooborns/ocelot/ !
[21:32] <BotenAnna> now the real question here about the ocelots...
[21:32]  * BotenAnna stuffs up glasses
[21:32] <BotenAnna> are they....
[21:32] <BotenAnna> oneric?
[21:32] <BotenAnna> YEAAAAAAAA*hackcoughwheeze*
[21:33] <pleia2> naturally
[21:33] <MarkDude> Also George Lucas must have much more common sense than say Disney
[21:34] <BotenAnna> Adjective:
[21:34] <BotenAnna> Of or relating to dreams or dreaming.
[21:34] <BotenAnna> neverb othered to look that up until just now
[21:34] <MarkDude> taking away Dark wing duck name
[21:35] <nhaines> BotenAnna: it was in the name announcemnt.  :P
[21:35] <BotenAnna> that sounds like it got dangerous
[21:35] <BotenAnna> nhaines: you assume im able to read
[21:35] <nhaines> BotenAnna: can't you?  Eureka can.
[21:35] <nhaines> Can't you, Eureka?
[21:35] <BotenAnna> i.... i'm illiterate
[21:35] <nhaines> Eureka: cat got your tongue?
[21:35] <Eureka> nhaines: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[21:36] <BotenAnna> i am not a bot
[21:36] <BotenAnna> i am a nice girl
[21:36] <Faqtotum> irony is that for a while, i thought BotenAnna really was a bot
[21:36] <nhaines> hahaha
[21:37] <Faqtotum> i did
[21:37] <nhaines> that's how the song goes too, I think.
[21:37] <Faqtotum> indeed
[21:37] <nhaines> Aww, I referred a friend to ING Direct and his stuff came and his debit card is way cooler than mine.
[21:38] <BotenAnna> did he get the cool upside down one?
[21:38] <nhaines> BotenAnna: that's the one.
[21:38] <BotenAnna> i like ing, shame im going to be replacing it with a credit uniion eventually =\
[21:38] <nhaines> I might just call them up and say... well, just what I said here.
[21:38] <nhaines> BotenAnna: use both!
[21:38] <BotenAnna> but they get the boot after chase so congrats to them!
[21:38] <BotenAnna> ing is owned by capital one
[21:38] <nhaines> I thought that hadn't gone through yet.
[21:39] <BotenAnna> and are thus connected to that whole "hey lets bet Americans' money" junk
[21:39] <Faqtotum> san francisco federal credit union's visa cards convert currency for international transactions at cost
[21:39] <nhaines> BotenAnna: Can't I rail against their evil ways but *still* give them control of my money?
[21:39] <BotenAnna> yeah it's not as bad as Chase or Bank of America so I'm replacing the Chase account first, but I like having two different financial institutions so I'll probably sign up for a couple credit unions or something
[21:39] <Faqtotum> i think it's 1% below the interbank rate
[21:40] <BotenAnna> i've been looking in to local credit unions and apparently there wasn't really anything I needed to fear
[21:40] <BotenAnna> like i thought atms would be hard to find, esp out of state, but they have more ATMs than most banks
[21:40] <BotenAnna> my only remaining concern is can I replace ING's great online banking stuff, but that may be possible
[21:41] <nhaines> ING has the best online banking really.
[21:41] <Faqtotum> i still have my old unexpired BofA check card that says "customer since 1985" somewhere. they let me keep it after i closed my accounts last year and went to chase.
[21:41] <nhaines> It even works with Linux if you use Firefox.
[21:41] <Faqtotum> this year, i closed the chase acct
[21:42] <Faqtotum> there is no upside to ING that i could find
[21:42] <nhaines> Faqtotum: how about no local branches and you have to mail in checks to deposit them?
[21:42] <Faqtotum> i have a similar acct with AmericaNet Bank, at a higher interest rate
[21:43] <BotenAnna> ing is good if you need to move money around with bank transfers
[21:43] <Faqtotum> i might not even keep that
[21:43] <BotenAnna> which i find myself doing
[21:43] <Faqtotum> AmericaNet transfers anything to anything for free, as long as the amount >= $1
[21:44] <Faqtotum> if i nuke that, i'll have to use paypal
[21:45] <Faqtotum> there are nice credit union deals that make things like ING completely obsolete, though
[21:54] <BotenAnna> Faqtotum: in terms of online services or just availability?
[22:08] <MarkDude> http://www.parisoma.com/events/
[22:08] <MarkDude> Parisoma has some cool events upcoming
[23:12] <Faqtotum> BotenAnna: the former
[23:17] <nhaines> Faqtotum: I think that was the important one.


[02:14] <reaxion> Hi there :)
[02:16] <reaxion> I am trying to use my locally generated repository to install maverick, and have changed the livecd's apt sources.list, but it still keeps using an internet repository rather than what I specify in sources.list.  Is there a way to force Ubiquity to use my local LAN repositories?
[02:17] <reaxion> I have many machines to install, so would rather have them installed from the LAN repo
[10:26] <tjaalton> how come does partman-lvm ask me to confirm the partitioning when I'm using the crypto method, but not when plain lvm is used?
[10:26] <tjaalton> on lucid
[10:26] <tjaalton> and partman-lvm/confirm is preseeded on both cases
[10:30] <cjwatson> I don't know, would need to see a complete DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer log
[10:30] <tjaalton> ok, I'll get that in a minute
[10:31] <tjaalton> though the message is different from the one that partman-lvm/confirm has..
[10:32] <tjaalton> so maybe there's another value that needs to be preseeded that I haven't found yet
[10:38] <cjwatson> partman-crypto/confirm comes to mine
[10:38] <cjwatson> *mind
[10:38] <cjwatson> _Description: Write the changes to disk and configure encrypted volumes?
[10:38] <tjaalton> ah, duh
[10:38] <tjaalton> didn't notice that then :)
[10:38] <tjaalton> and grep didn't "work"
[11:25] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r639 ubuntu/ (57 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 2.35
[11:27] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r640 ubuntu/Mirrors.masterlist: update Mirrors.masterlist to Debian 2.35
[11:29] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r641 ubuntu/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Drop ia64 and sparc support, as those were EOL in Maverick.
[11:30] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r642 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Switch to natty by default.
[11:31] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r643 ubuntu/Mirrors.masterlist.ubuntu: remove bogus CDImage-* entries from Mirrors.masterlist.ubuntu
[11:36] <CIA-2> choose-mirror: cjwatson * r644 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.35ubuntu1
[11:48] <CIA-2> cdrom-checker: cjwatson * r252 ubuntu/ (34 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 1.18
[11:55] <CIA-2> cdrom-checker: cjwatson * r253 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.18ubuntu1
[12:29] <tjaalton> cjwatson: it wasn't that btw, here's the syslog: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/foo/syslog
[12:30] <cjwatson> Oct 22 11:22:38 debconf: --> INPUT critical partman/confirm_nooverwrite
[12:30] <cjwatson> there you go
[12:30] <cjwatson> (documented in the installation-guide from lucid onwards, btw)
[12:30] <tjaalton> ah
[12:30] <tjaalton> thanks
[12:43] <tjaalton> there it is, an innocuous looking line at the end ;)
[14:04] <CIA-2> tasksel: cjwatson * r1443 ubuntu/ (14 files in 6 dirs): merge from Debian 2.84
[14:06] <CIA-2> tasksel: cjwatson * r1444 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.84ubuntu1
[15:21] <rneese_> cjwatson: hello
[15:21] <rneese_> I joined here
[15:22] <cjwatson> rneese_: http://pastebin.com/9zRat1NB should be a bit closer - preseed/late_command is run in the installer environment, so you need to either chroot or adjust paths for each command
[15:23] <cjwatson> I used in-target for the apt-get command because that does a bit more stuff to ensure that the environment is set up properly for package operations
[15:23] <rneese_> ok
[15:24] <rneese_> reading the file
[15:29] <rneese_> so cjwatson all I do now is add it to the cd
[15:32] <rneese_> ok the way you did this is alot easier to understand
[15:55] <rneese_> cjwatson: trying to setup partitioningnow
[15:55] <rneese_> in the file
[15:55] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-using.html#preseed-loading
[15:56] <cjwatson> (for how to load the file)
[15:56] <cjwatson> and you should read https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-intro.html for general context
[15:59] <rneese_> ok
[15:59] <rneese_> reading
[16:34] <rneese_> cjwatson: so if answers are not in the preceed.cfg then the system ask for input ?
[16:34] <rneese_> and where it finds answers it skips and uses the presets
[16:34] <cjwatson> as a general rule, yes
[16:34] <rneese_> ok
[16:36] <rneese_> cool
[16:36] <rneese_> I am closer to having it done.
[16:37] <rneese_> then just to add it to the cd and I am done
[16:38] <rneese_> what is the best by default ext2/3/4/ ?
[16:38] <rneese_> for filesystem
[16:39] <cjwatson> if you haven't benchmarked, just use the default
[16:39] <cjwatson> if you have particular performance criteria, I cannot answer your question - you should benchmark locally
[16:52] <rneese_> ok
[17:09] <rneese_> cjwatson: not seing how to add it to a existing cd
[17:09] <rneese_> I have to remaster the cd it looks like
[17:10] <cjwatson> yes, you do
[17:10] <rneese_> and get a md5 on the file also
[17:10]  * cjwatson -> away for the evening
[17:10] <rneese_> grr
[17:10] <rneese_> ok
[17:10] <rneese_> ltr
[17:25] <rneese_> ok where do I put the file on the iso /root ?
[17:47] <rneese_> do I put it in the preceed dir ?


[05:46] <psypher246> hi all, i have several issues with ubuntu one and jaunty and karmic and not sure where to actually begin, do i log a bug for every single issue i have or can I log one bug with all the issues? at this time ubuntu one is completely unusable of both platforms
[05:51] <MenZa> Each issue should be a seperate bug report, psypher246
[05:51] <MenZa> At least, that's the norm
[05:52] <psypher246> ok, big mission ahead0, got about 10 bugs
[05:59] <MenZa> heh
[05:59] <MenZa> gear up, soldier
[06:01] <psypher246> really unstable product, would not have released it with karmic, but yeah lets see if they can fix the issues soon. need to start using it
[13:32] <Ng> so yeah I have a ~366MB video that's in an upload loop
[13:53] <verterok> Ng: what kind of loop? do you have the logs?
[14:01] <Ng> verterok: it seems to write all the bytes, but then something fails and a little later it starts again. I'm not sure if any of the current logs have a full cycle because I've had to keep stabbing it because my upload is pitiful and it's ruining my downstream bandwidth. I'll let it run properly later and file a bug
[14:02] <verterok> Ng: you can throttle tyhe bandwidth, just be sure to change the default values as there is a bug with that.
[14:02] <verterok> Ng, I'ld like to see the error, ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log
[14:03] <verterok> Ng: if you'r going to run a full cycle, please let me know, and I can guide you to setup the logging in debug so we get more info ;)
[14:04] <Ng> verterok: ok :)
[14:06] <varadero> hi, ubuntuone doesnt connect and when i checked there is no ubuntuone tocken at Open Applications->Accessories->Passwords and Encryption Keys, go to the Passwords  its ubuntu 9.04
[14:06] <verterok> varadero: are you using  NetworkManager?
[14:06] <varadero> yes i do
[14:06] <verterok> ok, good!
[14:07] <varadero> thnx :) so ?
[14:07] <verterok> varadero: could you pastebin the content of ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/oauth-login.log ?
[14:08] <varadero> verterok, http://pastebin.com/f2e45df21
[14:09] <verterok> woow, that's a completely new error
[14:09] <varadero> :)
[14:10] <verterok> varadero: looks like your python install or twisted install is somewhat broken...
[14:11] <verterok> varadero: I'm looking, gimme 1'
[14:12] <verterok> varadero: please run this in a terminal: apt-cache policy python-twisted
[14:17] <verterok> varadero: ok, looks like your twisted installation is broken
[14:18] <varadero> reinstalled
[14:19] <verterok> varadero: restart the client and check the log file
[14:21] <varadero> http://pastebin.com/f537747d6
[14:23] <verterok> varadero: please, run this in a terminal: python -c "import decimal; print dir(decimal)"
[14:25] <Elessar_81> can i throw another problem in the ring?
[14:26] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: sure
[14:26] <varadero> http://pastebin.com/f7213524a verterok
[14:26] <Elessar_81> ok i think my ubuntu one client doesn't connect to the cloud. the oauth-login.log just has 8 lines with Starting Ubuntu One client version 1.0.2
[14:27] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: ok, and how about ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log ...anything there?
[14:27] <Elessar_81> this file is empty
[14:27] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: are you using NetworkManager?
[14:28] <Elessar_81> yes
[14:28] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: ok, try this from a terminal session: killall ubuntuone-client-applet ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[14:28] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: then from a terminal session: ubuntuone-client
[14:29] <Elessar_81> ok sry i have an syncdaemon-exceptions log timestamped from a couple minutes ago with an error
[14:29] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: actually, then: ubuntuone-client-applet
[14:29] <verterok> varadero: did you restarted the client?
[14:29] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: can you paste that to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and post the url here?
[14:29] <Elessar_81> http://pastebin.com/m3ca55acc
[14:29] <verterok> varadero: please, run this in a terminal: python -c "import twisted.spread.jelly"
[14:30] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: ahhh, ok, i think i have a workaround for you :)
[14:30] <Elessar_81> woho
[14:30] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: from a terminal session: rm -f ~/.config/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[14:31] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: then: killall ubuntuone-client-applet ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[14:31] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: then start ubuntu one as you normally would: applications->internet->ubuntu one
[14:35] <Elessar_81> ok it looks like it works. thank you sooo much what does -f in rm? i removed the configs before.
[14:35] <varadero> verterok,  yes i did
[14:36] <varadero> verterok,  new one after command http://pastebin.com/f233c41a0
[14:36] <varadero> err sorry
[14:36] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: just forces it :)
[14:36] <varadero> verterok,  here it is http://pastebin.com/f233c41a0
[14:37] <Elessar_81> ah ok thanks
[14:37] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: i just wanted to make sure it deleted for you :)
[14:37] <verterok> varadero: did you installed python/twisted manually? changed your $PYTHONPATH env var?
[14:37] <varadero> i did what ever u sad only verterok
[14:37] <varadero> <verterok> varadero: please, run this in a terminal: python -c "import twisted.spread.jelly"
[14:37] <verterok> varadero: yes, that's ok
[14:38] <Elessar_81> it doesn't seem to sync my files. should it start to upload instantly or wait some time?
[14:38] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: verterok has some code to fix the root of the problem but the issue is setting the preferences for bandwidth usage to the defaults...for now, don't mess with the bandwidth usage preferences...we'll have a fix out pretty soon for this
[14:38] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: you have files in ~/Ubuntu One/
[14:38] <joshuahoover> ?
[14:38] <verterok> varadero: I mean, in the past did you installed a custom python or twisted without using apt-get or synaptic
[14:38] <Elessar_81> yes a >500 mb backup
[14:39] <Elessar_81> at the webpage are only ~300 mb
[14:39] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: ok, you can check from a terminal session: u1sdtool --current-transfers
[14:39] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: that will tell you whether files are currently uploading/downloading
[14:40] <Elessar_81> ok it is working. thanks a lot
[14:41] <verterok> varadero: also run this to check is the decimal module is the one broked: grep ROUND_CEiLiNG /usr/lib/python2.6/decimal.py
[14:43] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: great!
[14:44] <Elessar_81> really thaks a lot i was working on that problem since a week
[14:44] <varadero> verterok, it has nothing
[14:44] <verterok> varadero: and: grep ROUND_CEiLiNG /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/twisted/spread/jelly.py ?
[14:44] <joshuahoover> Elessar_81: sorry for the hassles, we're working as fast as we can to improve all parts of the system...thank you for your patience :)
[14:45] <CardinalFang> I'm jumping ahead to stand-up meeting, note my TODO.
[14:45] <CardinalFang> DONE: Bug#474252 segv no core may be fixed; sent tree to PQM.  Reported Bug#476494 tarmac filename length.  Started Bug#476064 test dc replication.
[14:45] <CardinalFang> TODO: Sick day.
[14:45] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: -
[14:45] <CardinalFang> Laters, all.
[14:46] <Elessar_81> np i know that every software has errors, you did a great job with this software. it worked great on my notebook with karmic alpha and beta. saved my life when my notebook was stoeln. the bacjup was in the cloud
[14:46] <varadero> verterok,  nothing again
[14:47] <verterok> that's weird :(
[14:47] <varadero> strange
[14:47] <verterok> varadero: and: grep ROUND_CEiLiNG /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/twisted/spread/jelly.pyc ?
[14:47] <varadero> something like ubuntuone has to be not such complex
[14:47] <varadero> varadero, nothing
[14:48] <verterok> varadero: isn't a ubuntuone issue, looks like something in twisted/python is using a unexisting constant name
[14:48] <varadero> what can i do ?
[14:48] <joshuahoover> thank you for the kind words there Elessar_81! i'm passing that on to the team!
[14:49] <varadero> this is fresh install ubuntu i installed it today and all packages official
[14:49] <verterok> varadero: is this 9.10?
[14:49] <varadero> none 9.04
[14:50] <verterok> varadero: try this last command: grep ROUND_CEiLiNG /usr/lib/python2.6/decimal.pyc
[14:50] <verterok> varadero: I'm trying to find out where is the broken bit
[14:51] <Elessar_81> sure, say a big thanks you. have a nice day. you saved mine.
[14:51] <varadero> verterok, output is null
[14:51] <varadero> nothing
[14:54] <verterok> varadero: could you file a bug, it might be a packaging issue in the python or twisted package
[14:54] <verterok> ?
[14:54] <verterok> varadero: once we have the bug, I think we can assing it to the python package in ubuntu
[14:57] <varadero> verterok,  i have several ubuntu 9.04 computers here
[14:57] <varadero> i will try with next one
[14:57] <varadero> may be its only for this one
[14:57] <verterok> varadero: oh, cool. thanks!
[14:57] <verterok> varadero: might be, but if you don't mind to file the bug that would be great :)
[15:00] <jblount> Desktop+ MEETING BEGINS
[15:00] <urbanape`> me
[15:01] <teknico> me
[15:01] <jblount> me
[15:02] <jblount> Chipaca, vds ?
[15:02] <Chipaca> me
[15:02] <vds> me
[15:03] <jblount> urbanape`: As you're ready...
[15:03] <urbanape`> DONE: Made an instrumented branch of Bindwood that shows some promising post-first-launch performance boosts.
[15:03] <urbanape`> TODO: Fix some of the web UI issues, get estimates of remaining tasks to Chipaca. Try to get my Bindwood branch into somebody's PPA (would love a pair on the nitty-gritty aspects of this - I get it in an academic sense)
[15:03] <urbanape`> BLOCK: None
[15:03] <urbanape`> teknico, I choose you!
[15:03] <teknico> DONE: completed the fix for the web part of #423746; fought with launchpad and bazaar; started drafting the proposal for contacts categories
[15:03] <teknico> TODO: land the fix for #475202; land the fix for the web part of #423746; complete the proposal for contacts categories
[15:03] <teknico> BLOCK: none
[15:03] <teknico> next: jblount
[15:04] <jblount> DONE: More work on /files/ ui, started work on some js form validation stuff
[15:04] <jblount> TODO: REVIEWS! also finish form validation stuff
[15:04] <jblount> BLOCKED: Nope
[15:04] <jblount> Chipaca: !
[15:04] <Chipaca> DONE: got some estimates. Passed syncdaemon knowledge on to nessita (I hope!). TODO: poke people more, prepare estimates, blueprints. BLOCKED: no NEXT: vds
[15:05] <varadero> verterok, different machine same result
[15:06] <joshuahoover> varadero: how are you installing ubuntu one?
[15:06] <verterok> varadero: there is any pending upgrade? run: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade
[15:06] <Chipaca> vds: go, go, go!
[15:06] <vds> DONE: some progress on  watchdaemon #472803, some estimations on mobile setup, code review
[15:06] <vds> TODO: code review
[15:06] <vds> BLOCKED: nope
[15:06] <vds> I guess that's it...
[15:07] <jblount> EOM, hackers they be hacking
[15:08] <varadero> https://one.ubuntu.com/support/installation/ << i do fallow this instructions
[15:08] <varadero> "A web page will launch after clicking Ubuntu One in the previous step" << this never happens
[15:08] <joshuahoover> varadero: ok...and if you run: sudo apt-cache policy ubuntuone-client
[15:13] <varadero> http://pastebin.com/f555737b7
[15:17] <joshuahoover> varadero: ok, you have the latest release of ubuntu one...hmmm
[15:17] <joshuahoover> varadero: and you get the same error on two machines?
[15:19] <verterok> varadero: can you check if there is a update for python/twisted available?
[15:19] <verterok> joshuahoover: looks like a python/twisted packaging bug
[15:19] <joshuahoover> verterok: yeah...strange
[15:20] <varadero> its already lates version
[15:20] <joshuahoover> verterok: check this out: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.docutils.devel/4911
[15:20] <varadero> and yes both machines has same problem
[15:21] <varadero> they are ubuntu 9.04 fresh update
[15:21] <verterok> joshuahoover: interesting
[15:22] <verterok> joshuahoover, varadero: http://bugs.python.org/issue1813
[15:23] <verterok> varadero: are you using turkish locale?
[15:23] <varadero> verterok, yes i do
[15:23] <verterok> varadero: oohm, so you'r hitting this python bug: http://bugs.python.org/issue1813
[15:23] <joshuahoover> verterok: good find!
[15:24] <verterok> joshuahoover: you did all the work!
[15:24] <joshuahoover> verterok: sounds like there is a workaround there (not sure how good it is)
[15:25] <verterok> joshuahoover: changing the locale for the client should be enough
[15:26] <joshuahoover> verterok: is that something we can/should do automatically on install?
[15:27] <verterok> joshuahoover: we could do a workaround in  the applet and syncdaemon launch scripts, but it's ugly and the users are not going to see localized strings
[15:28] <joshuahoover> verterok: got ya
[15:28] <verterok> joshuahoover: but reading english sounds better than not having Ubuntu One at all ;)
[15:28] <joshuahoover> verterok: heh
[15:29] <joshuahoover> verterok: would you be so kind as to file a bug for this? we've seen it once before (at least i recall seeing it in irc once before, but didn't see much more discussion)
[15:30] <verterok> joshuahoover: ok, I'll file ASAP
[15:30] <joshuahoover> verterok: thank you!
[15:34] <verterok> varadero: so, changing the locale is a workaround, I'm trying to find a way to changing the locale only for Ubuntu One
[15:43] <feutete> is there a way to force ubuntu one to re-sync? I have about 779M in my local Ubuntu One directory, but only 681M Used on the server side
[15:43] <feutete> Also, I have added files to Ubuntu One locally that haven't synced, despite the client saying it was syncing files
[15:43] <feutete> seems that the client thinks it has synced everything when it really hasn't
[15:50] <verterok> feutete: a connect/disconnect should force a resync
[15:50] <feutete> hmmm...doesn't appear to do it. I have connect/disconnected several times.
[15:50] <verterok> feutete: also you can force a resync of specific folders using u1sdtool, e.g: u1sdtool --refresh <full/path/to/the/folder>
[15:51] <feutete> i might try that
[15:57] <feutete> verterok: that didn't seem to work either. the newly added files aren't syncing. If I quit the menubar client and restart it, it says it's syncing files, but it actually isn't
[15:58] <verterok> feutete: did you used the path to the file or the parent folder?
[15:58] <joshuahoover> feutete: how do you know it's not syncing?
[15:59] <feutete> i tried both the i tried both the path to the file itself, as well as the path to the parent folder
[15:59] <feutete> joshuahoover: I know it's not syncing because new files aren't showing up in the web interface
[15:59] <feutete> also, the web interface shows nearly 100M less usage than actually lives in the local Ubuntu One folder
[15:59] <varadero> verterok, thnx i ll try it with en locale
[16:00] <verterok> varadero: np :)
[16:00] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, that's what i thought, i wanted to make sure
[16:00] <verterok> feutete: could you pastebin the output of: tail -n 200 ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log ?
[16:00] <joshuahoover> feutete: when you try to reforce the sync, you can run this to see what is (or isn't) transferring: u1sdtool --current-transfers
[16:02] <feutete> verterok: http://pastebin.com/d13d85f60
[16:03] <feutete> joshuahoover: if I reforce the sync and then check current-transfers, it shows 0 uploads and 0 downloads
[16:03] <joshuahoover> feutete: hmmm...
[16:04] <feutete> is there an easy way to completely wipe what's on the server, and sync as if it was my first time?
[16:05] <joshuahoover> feutete: one way would be to delete everything from the client and then, if anything is left on the server, delete the folders and files on the server via the web ui
[16:05] <feutete> joshuahoover: i'll give that a spin. shouldn't be too difficult
[16:06] <joshuahoover> feutete: how big are the files that you're trying to resync in the log file giving above?
[16:06] <verterok> feutete: or you can wipe out the client data/metadata and resync with the contents in the server, then copy new data locally in ~/Ubuntu One
[16:07] <feutete> joshuahoover: pretty small. anywhere between 100 bytes and 30K
[16:08] <joshuahoover> feutete: or you can go extreme and reinstall ubuntu one clean: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+faq/778
[16:15] <feutete> joshuahoover: I deleted thru the web UI and moved everything out of ~/Ubuntu One locally, and then put the files back into ~/Ubuntu One locally, and syncdaemon.log shows lots of activity for syncing the files, so we'll see what comes of this
[16:16] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, thank you for your patience and helping us debug this...i'll be here for the next hour or so and then back in about 1.5 hours so i'll monitor the channel here
[16:17] <feutete> joshuahoover: Thanks for the help, and verterok too
[16:18] <feutete> hmmm....u1sdtool --current-transfers still shows 0 uploads and 0 downloads, and the web UI is empty
[16:22] <joshuahoover> feutete: can you paste your ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log again?
[16:22] <feutete> In other news, if I mouse over the Ubuntu One icon in the menu bar, the tool tip says "Updating Files...", the icon itself has the red X indicating it's disconnected, and if I click it, it says "Your files are up to date"
[16:22] <feutete> yes, I'll pastebin again
[16:23] <joshuahoover> feutete: oh, the client shows disconnected?
[16:23] <joshuahoover> feutete: can you also paste ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/oauth-login.log and post that url here as well?
[16:23] <feutete> technically, yes, but it also says it's updating files
[16:23] <feutete> if I connect it, it only stays connected for 30s or so, and then disconnects again
[16:23] <joshuahoover> feutete: and, while we're at it, if you have ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log post that as well...something isn't right
[16:25] <feutete> here's oauth-login: http://pastebin.com/d600d4b1b
[16:26] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, looks like you were getting some errors from the client earlier, but right now it's connecting ok...i'm guessing there's something in syncdaemon-exceptions.log
[16:26] <feutete> and here's the last 200 lines of syncdaemon.log: http://pastebin.com/d69ad237
[16:26] <feutete> syncdaemon-exceptions.log is empty
[16:27] <joshuahoover> feutete: hmmm...and the client still shows the red x and disconnected?
[16:27] <feutete> joshuahoover: yes, still shows the red X, disconnected, the tool tip shows Updating Files... and if I click the icon, it says my files are up to date
[16:29] <joshuahoover> feutete: i'm guessing nothing shows up in the web ui?
[16:31] <feutete> joshuahoover: that's right: nothiing in web UI
[16:32] <feutete> joshuahoover: I found this in a syncdaemon-exceptions.log dated earlier this morning: http://pastebin.com/d14a8d50
[16:32] <joshuahoover> feutete: ah ha!
[16:32] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, that one is easy to work around and we should try it first
[16:33] <joshuahoover> feutete: from a terminal session, first: rm -f ~/.config/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[16:33] <joshuahoover> feutete: then: killall ubuntuone-client-applet ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[16:33] <joshuahoover> feutete: then start ubuntu one normally: applications->internet->ubuntu one
[16:35] <feutete> ok, trying
[16:35] <urbanape> biab
[16:35] <feutete> joshuahoover: restarted ubuntu one, and the icon shows syncing
[16:36] <joshuahoover> feutete: still showing connected?
[16:36] <joshuahoover> feutete: and try: u1sdtool --current-transfers
[16:36] <feutete> joshuahoover: u1sdtool --current-transfers still shows 0 uploads and 0 down. Yes, shows still connected
[16:36] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, it takes just a bit for syncdaemon to scan the local ~/Ubuntu One/ directory to check on what needs to be uploaded
[16:37] <feutete> joshuahoover: syncdaemon.log shows activity, so I suspect it's scanning now. I'll be paitent and will report back with results. Meanwhile, the menu icon shows still connected, which is a good sign
[16:38] <joshuahoover> feutete: ok, good :)
[16:38] <joshuahoover> feutete: that's better than before, now we'll see if files start uploading
[16:38] <feutete> joshuahoover: thanks again
[16:38] <feutete> joshuahoover: web UI is starting to show files
[16:38] <joshuahoover> feutete: thank you for all your patience on pasting log files so many times and running steps over and over again!
[16:39] <feutete> joshuahoover: no problem. thanks for your help. I'm excited to have Ubuntu One.
[17:53] <feutete> joshuahoover: the upload is progressing, but horribly slow...in the last hour, I have uploaded 3.3M, but it's my understanding that the speed problems are a known issue...
[17:53] <feutete> thanks for the help getting syncing
[18:58] <mesula> joshuahoover: Any progress on that bug?
[18:59] <mesula> joshuahoover: I'm just waiting for it to be fixed so that I can use Ubuntu One.
[19:29] <joshuahoover> mesula: sorry, i was out
[19:29] <mesula> joshuahoover: No problem.
[19:29] <joshuahoover> mesula: i'm checking on the status now to see where we're at
[19:32] <joshuahoover> mesula: were you able to get more recent debug info for facundobatista? bug 474850 (see last comment)
[19:32] <mesula> joshuahoover: I was, yeah.
[19:32] <mesula> joshuahoover: I couldn't upload it to Launchpad so I sent it directly to him.
[19:32] <mesula> joshuahoover: Launchpad was being buggy.
[19:32] <joshuahoover> mesula: ahhh...ok, then let me check with facundo
[19:32] <facundobatista> joshuahoover, yes, verterok is following this, I sent him mesula log
[19:33] <joshuahoover> facundobatista: ah, ok...i know verterok is trying to work on some db issues right now though
[19:35] <joshuahoover> facundobatista: based on what you saw, was there anything else we need from mesula?
[19:35] <facundobatista> joshuahoover, that may explain some of the errors that mesula found ;)
[19:35] <joshuahoover> facundobatista: always possible...though, i'd expect to see a lot more bugs filed like mesula
[19:36] <facundobatista> joshuahoover, yes!
[20:14] <rtagger> Hi again. I guess I hit the same issue lots of users do at the moment. This does not seem to be ubuntuone-specific, but here's the output of apt-cache policy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/311796/ - The mirror contains the right ubuntuone-client version, but the system insists that PPA version is the best.
[20:15] <rtagger> This is on the second netbook. I know how to fix that, but the question is why this is happening
[20:24] <joshuahoover> rtagger: hi
[20:25] <rtagger> joshuahoover, hi, looks like this is silent friday over here...
[20:26] <joshuahoover> rtagger: sorry, if you ping the person in the topic listed as "Community Face" we're more likely to see your question
[20:26] <joshuahoover> rtagger: i'll try to make that more obvious in the topic
[20:27] <rtagger> joshuahoover, ah, sorry.
[20:27] <joshuahoover> rtagger: ok, so, that's not the latest ppa version you're showing, the latest is r273
[20:27] <joshuahoover> rtagger: np, i changed the topic to be more specific :)
[20:27] <joshuahoover> rtagger: the ppa is almost always going to be more recent than the one in karmic
[20:28] <rtagger> joshuahoover, this ppa was for jaunty
[20:28] <joshuahoover> rtagger: ok, but in the paste it shows karmic repos as well :)
[20:28] <rtagger> and remained that despite of the complete system update
[20:29] <joshuahoover> rtagger: so, you've done sudo apt-get update and the latest version still shows 1.1+r269?
[20:29] <rtagger> yup
[20:29] <joshuahoover> rtagger: hmmm
[20:30] <rtagger> joshuahoover, basically, If I were a PC, I would behave the same way, since I have 1.1+blah version while "they" want me to install 1.0.2 version
[20:31] <joshuahoover> rtagger: but this is a jaunty computer???
[20:32] <rtagger> joshuahoover, this is now karmic, lsb_release says so :), all repos are set to karmic, but ubuntuone-client remained from jaunty...
[20:33] <joshuahoover> rtagger: yes, and the real problem is that the ppa should be saying r273 and that should be the version used on your computer since you have the ppa repo installed because that is the latest version of ubuntu one...do you still have the ubuntu one ppa in our /etc/apt/sources.list?
[20:35] <rtagger> joshuahoover, the update proces removed all ppas from sources.list. So no package lists contain any reference to jaunty ppa. This is why it is not updated to the latest jaunty ppa.
[20:36] <joshuahoover> rtagger: ok, that makes sense...so it has the last ppa package and that is still newer than the karmic update (at least in terms of version numbers)
[20:37] <rtagger> joshuahoover, yup, If this is the only check apt performs then ... why was it released as 1.1+revision?
[20:37] <joshuahoover> rtagger: because 1.0.x is karmic and then we went on with 1.1+ for the ppa and lucid
[20:38] <joshuahoover> rtagger: 1.0.x was cut weeks before karmic final
[20:39] <joshuahoover> rtagger: so i think what you'll need to do is remove ubuntuone, do an update, make sure it's saying 1.0.2ubuntu2 is the candidate and then install
[20:39] <rtagger> joshuahoover, this ppa was installed when we were testing the issue with files gone missing, right when karmic entered rc or something like that
[20:40] <joshuahoover> rtagger: ok, yeah, so you'll either need to add the ppa back to sources.list or remove the current install and install the karmic version
[20:40] <rtagger> joshuahoover, yep, removal and reinstall will help, at least now I know that only version is checked when updates are processed.
[20:41] <joshuahoover> rtagger: yep, i haven't seen anyone else in the same situation, though i'm kind of surprised...i need to check through bugs closer for this scenario
[20:42] <rtagger> joshuahoover, I guess anybody installed ubuntuone into jaunty during release process of karmic will face such issues. I don't think there will be many :)
[20:43] <rtagger> joshuahoover, thanks for your help, again :)
[20:43] <joshuahoover> rtagger: yep, it's definitely limited to people installing ubuntuone during a limited period of time where they'd run into this...thank you (as always!) for your patience and help!
[20:46] <rtagger> joshuahoover, I just like searching for the answers/troubleshooting. I've been working in software development area for some time, so bugs are not some kind of exceptions :). And I like ubuntuone. Don't know why but I do :)
[20:53] <joshuahoover> rtagger: if you have ideas on how we can improve things on the support side (faqs, bug triage, tutorials, docs, etc.) i welcome them! you have a great perspective on things that is hard for those on the team to have.
[20:58] <rtagger> joshuahoover, okay, I'll see what I can do :)
[20:59] <joshuahoover> rtagger: great! my email is joshua dot hoover at canonical dot com
[21:06] <rtagger> joshuahoover, btw, https://one.ubuntu.com/features/#files - is it intended that Files section shows "This is my file name.odt" 7 times, with different icons but with the same size, or it is just a mock-up?
[21:06] <joshuahoover> rtagger: no, that's not right...that's what you're seeing when you go there?
[21:09] <rtagger> joshuahoover, this is just a picture that displays web ui interface example for files section. It got my attention because there are a lot of different icons for the same file. Minor documentation mistake only.
[21:09] <joshuahoover> rtagger: ahhh, ok, i missed the /features part of the url!
[21:09] <joshuahoover> rtagger: yeah, we should fix that :)