[00:01] <sgclark> back and sure Riddell I can look @ kf5
[00:03] <soee__> :)
[00:54] <ahoneybun> still have no idea why it is not showing up in khelpcenter
[01:31] <ahoneybun> Well something broke for sure
[01:31] <ahoneybun> Plasma-shell is not starting
[01:33] <ahoneybun> Now im missing plasma-desktop?
[01:37] <sgclark> ahoneybun: huh?
[01:37] <ahoneybun> Idk what happend
[01:37] <sgclark> I did not steal thy plasma-desktop!
[01:38] <ahoneybun> Plasma shell crashed so i restarted and not i nothinf but a black screen with the mouse
[01:38] <sgclark> are you using ci or something?
[01:38] <ahoneybun> Im in the tty right now
[01:39] <ahoneybun> I did not update or anything
[01:39] <ahoneybun> I did now thinking it might fix it
[01:39] <ahoneybun> But nope
[01:40] <sgclark> try systemctl start sddm
[01:41] <ahoneybun> Authentication complete
[01:41] <ahoneybun> Still black screen in tty
[01:41] <ahoneybun> Wow
[01:42] <ahoneybun> Got to login in... To a black screen
[01:42] <ahoneybun> With the mouse
[01:42] <sgclark> are you on vivid?
[01:42] <ahoneybun> Yep
[01:42] <ahoneybun> Been
[01:42] <sgclark> try sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop
[01:43] <sgclark> maybe a depend got borked or something...
[01:43] <ahoneybun> It seems to have removed that
[01:43] <ahoneybun> Installed
[01:44] <ahoneybun> Rebooting
[01:46] <ahoneybun> Amarok and kwallet start XD
[01:46] <ahoneybun> Nothing else
[01:48] <ahoneybun> I type plasma-desktop and it says it is not installed
[01:48] <ahoneybun> But when i try ti install it says it is installed
[01:49] <sgclark> ahoneybun: I really don't know. You aren't like on the daily ci or something?
[01:49] <ahoneybun> Nope beta 1
[01:50] <ahoneybun> Hold up kubuntu-desktop pulled im a few updates
[01:52]  * ahoneybun downloads another beta 1 image
[02:14] <ScottK> sgclark: Get the seed situation figured out?
[02:19] <sgclark> ScottK: ack sorry no got distracted by 50 irc notification of failed builds
[02:19] <ScottK> OK.
[02:20] <sgclark> ScottK: I will email you when I get that sorted. THanks for your help
[09:29] <Riddell> sgclark: http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/sign.tar.gz
[10:07] <ovidiu-florin> Quintasan: ping
[10:10] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[10:10] <ovidiu-florin> hey BluesKaj
[10:10] <BluesKaj> hey ovidiu-florin
[10:13] <ovidiu-florin> Pablo: ping
[10:13] <Pablo> pong
[10:13] <ovidiu-florin> The feature page has another card on trello, made by ahoneybun
[10:14] <ovidiu-florin> he has a link there with the new screenshots
[10:14] <ovidiu-florin> Pablo: make a concept for the Feature tour page
[10:14] <ovidiu-florin> get inspiration from the current page: http://www.kubuntu.org/feature-tour
[10:20] <ovidiu-florin> you can make any design you want
[10:20] <ovidiu-florin> make it offline first, and then I'll give you a place to put it so everyone can see it and vote on it
[10:21] <Pablo> ok then
[10:23] <ovidiu-florin> BluesKaj: any python experience?
[10:24] <BluesKaj> nope
[10:25] <ovidiu-florin> osăm (awesome)
[10:25] <BluesKaj> except for scripts to run my TIVO a few yrs back
[10:28] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:29] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: mornin'
[10:29] <ovidiu-florin> any python experience?
[10:30] <lordievader> Hey ovidiu-florin, how are you?
[10:30] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Lots ;)
[10:31] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: can you give me feedback on this: https://paste.kde.org/pcv7b7xsx
[10:32] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: last night I got a stack overflow after about an hour
[10:32] <ovidiu-florin> of running it
[10:33] <ovidiu-florin> just crashed again
[10:34] <ovidiu-florin> after <5 minutes of running
[10:34] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Do you have a traceback?
[10:34] <ovidiu-florin> https://paste.kde.org/pq99vtim0
[10:35] <ovidiu-florin> last relevant lines
[10:37] <lordievader> Ah, you are programming recursively...
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[10:38] <lordievader> That explains the stack overflow.
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> why so limited?
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> only 86 levels
[10:38] <lordievader> If you have only a couple of links it'll work, but give it a couple of thousand. And you have a huge stack.
[10:39] <ovidiu-florin> I have 8 GB of RAM
[10:39] <ovidiu-florin> it shoul dbe more than enough
[10:39] <yofel> is "lnk" really identical with "pageUrl" ?
[10:39] <yofel> otherwise isLinkStored does nothing useful
[10:40] <ovidiu-florin> yofel: it could have been previously added
[10:40] <kfunk> isLinkStored can simply be "link in lst"
[10:40] <ovidiu-florin> if I make it a set
[10:41] <ovidiu-florin> but hten I need 2 sets, because I can't have indexes in sets
[10:41] <ovidiu-florin> to keep track of what was visited
[10:41] <lordievader> Perhaps using more return statements and smaller functions will help.
[10:42] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: please elaborate on that
[10:43] <lordievader> Have a function that grabs Kubuntu urls from a give page, this function returns those urls. Small function who do just one thing. Also you probably want to work with dictionaries, that way you can create a url tree.
[10:45] <ovidiu-florin> I don't need a URL tree
[10:45] <ovidiu-florin> just a list
[10:45] <ovidiu-florin> and then to test that each one of those is valid on the new site
[10:48] <ovidiu-florin> I fail to see how it is more usefull to separate the 2 parts into separate functions, thus increasing the complexity
[10:50] <lordievader> Actually smaller functions are easier to manage. They also make debugging easier.
[10:52] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Perhaps you also need to make sure that you are trying to parse files, it just tried to parse an image.
[10:54] <yofel> hm, problem seems to be that you're doing a deep search. So if page 1 has 2 links, you go into the first link, if that also has the 2nd link you will parse that there, and not on the first level
[10:54] <yofel> my script run is at depth 350 by now...
[10:55] <yofel> and crashes at "parsing page /HardyHeron/Beta/Kubuntu / depth: 394" with a 404 error
[10:58] <ovidiu-florin> never mind, I found http://wummel.github.io/linkchecker/ I hope it has an export function
[10:59] <ovidiu-florin> yofel: yes, that's a bug I've fixed
[10:59] <ovidiu-florin> yofel: here you go https://paste.kde.org/pz5vqfeqy
[11:08] <yofel> gotta run, sorry
[11:54] <Quintasan> ovidiu-florin: pong
[12:45] <ovidiu-florin> Quintasan: still here?
[12:45] <Quintasan> yeah
[12:45] <ovidiu-florin> your flatmate made a concept for the kubuntu site
[12:45] <ovidiu-florin> it's not online anymore
[12:45] <ovidiu-florin> I was looking at that for inspiration
[12:46] <Quintasan> I'll kick him.
[12:46] <Quintasan> Wait a second.
[12:47] <Quintasan> Ah damn he's not in the flat
[12:49] <ovidiu-florin> ah... anyhow. I want to talk with him about designing the download page
[12:50] <ovidiu-florin> I have some requirements, maybe he has some ideas.
[12:50] <ovidiu-florin> I'm off
[12:50] <ovidiu-florin> see you soon
[13:18] <ahoneybun> morning
[13:20] <ahoneybun> does anyone else have "starting version 219" on the top left of their computer when they first start up?
[13:20] <soee> yes
[13:21] <ahoneybun> it hangs for like 2 mins I swear
[13:21] <ahoneybun> I thought it had to do with the ubuntu sdk
[13:28] <yofel> ahoneybun: what does systemd-analyze tell you?
[13:29] <yofel> 'systemd-analyze blame' might tell you what took so long
[13:31] <ahoneybun> yofel: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10596859/
[13:32] <yofel> :/
[13:32] <ahoneybun> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10596865/
[13:33] <yofel> that's 40s, not 2 minutes ^^
[13:33] <soee> ahoneybun: but yeah there was more lines before after plymouth, now only this one for few seconds till sddm is loaded
[13:35] <yofel> ahoneybun: maybe try systemd-blame plot > /tmp/chart.svg and see when sddm starts there
[13:35] <yofel> otherwise everything looks fine..
[13:35] <BluesKaj> sddm not starting at boot , have to start it from the TTY
[13:35] <yofel> with newest updates?
[13:36] <BluesKaj> on  the laptop, boots ok on the desktop
[13:36] <soee> BluesKaj: some user eported the same on #kubuntu last days
[13:36] <BluesKaj> yofel, yes , very latest
[13:36] <yofel> gah, one annoying part about systemd is that I don't know where to look these days if something goes wrong *-.-
[13:37] <BluesKaj> soee, yeah , I saw that with some users, some lost their desktops etc , I just neede to restartsddm
[13:37] <ahoneybun> yea I ran startx to get a desktop
[13:38] <soee> i hope there wont be such problems after final release :/
[13:38] <yofel> does 'systemctl status sddm' print something interesting?
[13:38] <yofel> ahoneybun: ^
[13:39] <BluesKaj> sustemd to me isn't working very well, I miss startup and init, some apps need dbus-launch to start properly
[13:39] <ahoneybun> yofel: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10596897/
[13:40] <soee> also check last comment here: https://plus.google.com/110954078302330754910/posts/bPkdrSHDS3E any of you have the same ?
[13:40] <yofel> disabled -> what?
[13:40] <yofel> ahoneybun: 'sudo systemctl enable sddm' might help...
[13:41] <yofel> or does that fail in any way?
[13:41] <ahoneybun> nope
[13:42] <yofel> does status now say enabled?
[13:42] <ahoneybun> yea
[13:42] <yofel> ok, *should* start on boot now
[13:42] <yofel> now... how the hell did that get disabled
[13:43] <yofel> BluesKaj: does status say disabled for you too?
[13:45] <BluesKaj> yes yofel, status inactive (dead)
[13:46] <yofel> no, the Loaded line should say: loaded (...), enabled, vendor preset: enabled
[13:47] <yofel> Active says whether it's running, which shouldn't be inactive either though if you started it yourself o.O
[13:48] <BluesKaj> yofel, it says sddm.service; disabled; vendor present; enabled
[13:48] <yofel> wth...
[13:48] <yofel> BluesKaj: please also run 'sudo systemctl enable sddm'
[13:49] <BluesKaj> I haven't started sddm
[13:49] <yofel> ah ok, then inactive is right
[13:50] <BluesKaj> just enabled sddm, it's hung up in plymouth , not doing anything
[13:50] <BluesKaj> no progress dots
[13:51] <yofel> BluesKaj: please pastebin /var/log/sddm.log
[13:52] <BluesKaj> systemctl says unknown operation sddm
[13:53] <ahoneybun> I'm rebooting to see what happens brb
[13:53] <yofel> did you forget 'enable'?
[13:53] <BluesKaj> ok , once I get a desktop I'll do that
[13:54] <BluesKaj> didn't forget enable
[13:55] <yofel> strange, "Unknown operation sddm" should only be shown if you run "systemctl sddm" or so
[13:56] <ahoneybun> yofel: started up fine
[13:56] <ahoneybun> everything is loaded
[13:57] <ahoneybun> though that "starting version 219" is still there
[13:57] <BluesKaj> ok ran enable again, startx got a desktop this time
[13:57] <yofel> ahoneybun: well, that's something at least
[13:58] <yofel> the starting version 219 would be a bug in systemd (as that's the systemd version)
[13:58] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[13:59] <soee> ahoneybun: can you file a new bug ? i can confrm than (about starting version 219)
[13:59] <BluesKaj> yeah , getting version 219 here too, but have the gui sddm login after the reboot
[14:01] <BluesKaj> ok , got the desktop this time ...looks like enable sddm did the trick yofel
[14:12] <ahoneybun> soee: what would I file that under?
[14:13] <yofel> ahoneybun: just do 'ubuntu-bug systemd' and make sure the bug is tagged 'systemd-boot'
[14:14] <BluesKaj> still getting 219 version here on the desktop pc, but it sddm gui loads without any problem
[14:15] <BluesKaj> the laptop which had the problem, seems fine now
[14:18] <soee> ahoneybun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+filebug
[14:20] <ahoneybun> thanks soee working on it
[14:22] <ahoneybun> soee: yofel https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1432171
[14:22] <yofel> apport didn't work? :/
[14:23] <ahoneybun> yofel: ?
[14:23] <yofel> ubuntu-bug
[14:23] <yofel> as you didn't use apport, please add the ubuntu release version and the exact systemd package version by hand to the bug description
[14:24] <ahoneybun> ok
[14:26] <ahoneybun> done yofel
[14:27] <soee> BluesKaj: can you also confirm please on bug repot page ?
[14:27] <yofel> thanks
[14:36] <BluesKaj> soee, I have issues with that stupis ubuntu one sign in page, I've tried changing my profile setings since I changed ISPs bit it insists on keeping my original email address etc which is no m.,onger valid, so I can't confirm atm
[14:37] <BluesKaj> as you can tell by my spelling mistakes I'm a bit p**ed of at launchpad for tying themselves to this useles page
[20:55] <soee> calligra is broken in vivid ?
[21:12] <valorie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1432171 Has this reply:
[21:12] <valorie> This is not a bug; it's simply the plymooth comment due to the 'quiet splash' boot options
[21:12] <valorie> When these options are removed from grub, and then grub updated, that comment is replaced by the full booting process.
[21:12] <valorie> perhaps I should try updates to my old laptop and add more to that, because to me, that is still a bug
[21:24] <soee> valorie: why ?
[21:36] <valorie> why is it a bug?
[21:36] <valorie> it shouldn't show at all
[21:36] <valorie> black screen would be better
[21:36] <valorie> 40 secs is a rather long startup, too
[21:37] <soee> imo there should not be back screen at all
[21:37] <valorie> sure
[21:37] <soee> there should be plymouth and direct transition to sddm
[21:37] <valorie> right
[21:37] <valorie> so I want to add my comments to that bug saying so
[21:37] <soee> ah ok :)
[21:38] <valorie> my bet is that I won't be able to login with out nonsense after the updates too
[21:55] <soee> valorie: can you check if calligra is installable for you of have deps problems ?
[21:56] <soee> *or
[21:58] <valorie> installing; just finished updates on that old laptop entirely without problems
[21:59] <valorie> I'm even testing muon discover to do that
[21:59] <valorie> first time I've used it
[21:59] <valorie> soee: any particular part of calligra you had problems with?
[21:59] <valorie> I'm doing sheets
[22:02] <valorie> soee: it installed fine, and opens up
[22:10] <soee> valorie: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10599881/
[22:13] <valorie> hmmm, I didn't try the metapackage
[22:13] <valorie> just sheets
[22:13] <soee> ah, ok
[22:13] <valorie> doing that now from the cli
[22:14] <valorie> muon discover doesn't offer the metapackage
[22:14] <valorie> it's installing fine though
[22:14] <soee> crom cli ?
[22:14] <soee> *from
[22:14] <valorie> yes
[22:15] <valorie> it just finished
[22:15] <soee> strange
[22:15] <valorie> sheesh, so much smaller than libreoffice
[22:15] <valorie> this laptop has a fresh install of vivid beta, and I did updates today
[22:15] <valorie> although I've not restarted since
[22:16] <soee> im also on all latets updates
[22:20] <valorie> I've commented that bug anyway, and quoted you, soee
[22:22] <soee> valorie: ok :)
[22:41] <ahoneybun> valorie: changed it to "confirmed"
[23:08] <valorie> thank you, ahoneybun


[00:10] <danel> I don't use ubuntu interface, only gnome and unity compiz plug in and kde, I'd do no good in a light weight section, I'm out.......
[00:10] <danel> sorry
[00:10] <danel> I use ubuntu, DON'T use lubuntu
[00:47] <FernandoCueva> who can help me increase size and performance with lubuntu
[00:50] <reach> hey, what format should i get apps in for lubuntu 11.10? deb or tar
[00:51] <Unit193> !repoi
[00:51] <Unit193> !repo
[00:51] <Unit193> use the repo, don't normally download from sites if you can avoid it.
[00:53] <reach> unit193: are you talking to me?
[00:53] <Unit193> Yep.
[00:54] <reach> oh lol, so whats repo
[00:55] <Unit193> The bot just linked to them, you use synaptic or apt-get to install software.
[00:56] <reach> so if i wanted chrome what do i try using apt-get
[00:57] <Unit193> Well, chrome isn't there, but chromium is.
[00:58] <reach> oh o.k. what about midori
[00:58] <Unit193> sudo apt-get install mirodi
[00:59] <Unit193> !software | reach
[00:59] <Unit193> https://www.google.com/chrome?platform=linux if you must have chrome rather than chromium.
[01:00] <reach> oh one sec
[01:01] <reach> isnt it midori and not mirodi
[01:01] <reach> ?
[01:03] <Unit193> Typo.
[02:19] <chris_> how do i fully install firefox so it shows in my sys tray and start options?
[02:22] <Unit193> Tray and "start option"?
[02:22] <Unit193> That's not the normal install.
[02:22] <chris_> well i dont know how to to do it
[02:23] <chris_> i never had a problem in ubuntu when i installed firefox but it seems everything is different in lubuntu and I cant install it so it shows up anywhere
[02:23] <Unit193> Menu > Internet > Firefox
[02:24] <chris_> yeah....no its not there, it is not anywhere....I have to go into the downloads folder>firefox>firefox.exe to run firefox
[02:24] <Unit193> Errr....
[02:24] <chris_> the icon has not shown up anywhere at all even the desktop
[02:24] <Unit193> What?
[02:24] <Unit193> How did you install it?
[02:24] <chris_> i just downloaded it from mozilla
[02:24] <Unit193> !software
[02:25] <Unit193> You should really use the repos...
[02:25] <chris_> how do i do that???
[02:25] <Unit193> .exe is a windows program.
[02:25] <chris_> whatever the "executable" file is is what i have to click on
[02:25] <Unit193> The link ubottu has it, but in short, open synaptic and search or open a terminal and type sudo apt-get install firefox
[02:25] <chris_> i havent even touched the surface of linux so I am still learning how to isntall things through the terminal and understanding the terminology
[02:26] <chris_> should i uninstall what i downloaded?
[02:26] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareManagement should help.
[02:26] <Unit193> Would be a bery good idea.
[02:26] <chris_> i know you should always install stuff through the terminal but sometimes I have issues doing it
[02:27] <Unit193> Don'thave to use the terminal, you can use  synaptic.
[02:27] <chris_> E: Package 'firefox' has no installation candidate.......this is what it says in terminal
[02:27] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
[02:27] <chris_> twiztid
[02:28] <Unit193> try  sudo apt-get update   then the install command.
[02:28] <chris_> disregard the twiztid thing....meant for another chat
[02:33] <chris_> this synaptic thing is making no sense to me sorry
[02:36] <chris_> i figured it out
[02:37] <chris_> @Unit193 thanks I figured it out
[02:37] <Unit193> Yep, synaptic isn't too hard, but it may be confusing for someone that hasn't used it before.
[02:38] <Unit193> In the next version there's an even friendlier way to do it.
[02:40] <chris_> i did it in the terminal, i will have to mess with the synaptic thing.....another question, yesterday my time read a 12 hour time format and now it switched back to 24 hour....how do i switch it back?
[02:42] <Unit193> Change the clock format to something like  %r
[02:42] <Unit193> Right click > settings
[02:43] <Unit193> (Clock settings, not panel)
[02:43] <chris_> ok almost there....how do i take the seconds off?
[02:44] <Unit193> Use a different time setting.
[02:46] <Unit193> http://linux.die.net/man/3/strftime list of choices (you can combine, and it's accessible from your system via   man strftime  terminal command)
[02:53] <chris_> thanks
[02:53] <chris_> later everyone
[07:22] <iceroot> what metapackage is pulling the smallest lxde-env?
[07:25] <Unit193> lxde-core or lubuntu-core
[07:28] <iceroot> Unit193: thx
[08:37] <pcman> hello
[09:49] <glosoli> hey, I want to ask, this is how lightdm in ubuntu looks like: http://www.debianadmin.com/wp-content/gallery/lubuntu12/17.png ?
[09:54] <JohnDoe_71Rus> glosoli: looks like beta 12.04
[09:54] <glosoli> JohnDoe_71Rus: is this going to look like that after Final also ?
[09:54] <JohnDoe_71Rus> but i whant some change
[09:55] <JohnDoe_71Rus> don't know,
[09:55] <glosoli> Ah, then I better wait :)
[09:55] <JohnDoe_71Rus> test in virtualbox
[14:58] <reach> manager isn't working
[17:05] <skedar> hi, I bought an EEE PC, 1025C, quite a new model I think, I'd like to find out whether there is any drivers support for it on Linux since I'd love it to run Lubuntu, but I didn't find anyone who tried to run linux on it by googling, does anyone have this model here?
[17:06] <bioterror> try Live?
[17:06] <bioterror> put it on USB and give it a spin
[17:08] <skedar> yeah I want to do it today =) was just curious about the drivers, I'm pretty sure it will work somehow on generic ones but I wonder how the battery will be handled for instance, whether I'll still have a good battery capacity
[17:09] <bioterror> that's why the live environment rules
[17:10] <bioterror> you can try it out and see if it works out of the box ;)
[17:10] <bioterror> no need for installing
[17:14] <skedar> I guess, but I don't want to wait 10 hours to see if my battery still works that long on Lubuntu =D
[17:43] <Mordy> hi
[17:47] <Elchzard> hello Mordy
[17:48] <Mordy> can you tell me why my desktop freeze after I add shortcuts on desktop?
[17:49] <Mordy> lubuntu start acting strange all icons dissaphed from desktop I have fresh install
[19:25] <milen8204> anyone have problems whit watching  youtube clips
[19:25] <bioterror> yes
[19:25] <bioterror> crashes some times or doesnt start
[19:27] <milen8204> does not start at all
[19:28] <bioterror> that happens too
[19:28] <milen8204> it is happened  when I use Lubuntu, when I use Ubuntu have no problems
[19:28] <bioterror> that's becouse of flashplayer
[19:29] <milen8204> yes
[19:29] <milen8204> how can I fix it ?
[19:29] <bioterror> youtube.com/html5
[19:29] <milen8204> but
[19:29] <milen8204> I can watch clips in others sites like vbox7.com for example
[19:34] <TheCheggs> i think i may know of a fix for your problem milen8204, it worked for me
[19:35] <TheCheggs> http://askubuntu.com/questions/117127/flash-video-appears-blue
[19:35] <milen8204> TheCheggs, ok thanks for information
[19:35] <TheCheggs> getting rid of libvdpau1 always fixxed it for me, but you cannot use any sort of mplayer after removing it
[19:39] <milen8204> TheCheggs, can you use VLC player ?
[19:39] <TheCheggs> yep
[19:39] <milen8204> ok I will remove it :D
[19:39] <TheCheggs> :)
[19:40] <TheCheggs> audacious and vlc still work fine, please excuse my spelling. it isn't my strong suit :)
[19:40] <milen8204> my spelling is not the best thing either
[19:40] <milen8204> :D
[19:41] <TheCheggs> :D
[19:42] <milen8204> TheCheggs, should i restart the PC
[19:42] <milen8204> ?
[19:42] <TheCheggs> naw it should work as is
[19:43] <milen8204> not for me
[19:43] <milen8204> :(
[19:43] <TheCheggs> did you kill the webbrowser and start it back up?
[19:45] <TheCheggs> and if that doesn't work then try rebooting, i didn't think i had to but could be wrong
[19:48] <milen8204> i am going to reboot
[19:56] <milen8204> TheCheggs, didnt succeeded
[19:56] <TheCheggs> hmm
[19:56] <TheCheggs> and your sure you removed that file?
[19:57] <milen8204> yes  I did that ins Synaptic
[19:57] <milen8204> I am going to do that again
[19:58] <TheCheggs> that was the only fix i found that worked
[19:58] <TheCheggs> i don't know man
[19:58] <milen8204> TheCheggs, ok thank for the help
[20:00] <milen8204> it says that I do not have flash player
[20:00] <Unit193> Enable the !partner repo and install adobe-flashplugin
[20:05] <ilomabr> also if you use firefox the flashaid addon works great
[20:05] <TheCheggs> brb all
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> TheCheggs; might you be interested in joining the Lubuntu Team meeting?
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> It's on #ubuntu-meeting right now and we've just started
[20:07] <TheCheggs> uhh sure, ill listin in :)
[20:18] <TheCheggs> brb lads
[20:32] <TheCheggs> i am back
[20:59] <TheCheggs> aww yeah
[21:28] <TheCheggs> MrChrisDruif, thank you for inviting me :)
[21:29] <MrChrisDruif> TheCheggs; don't mention it
[21:29] <TheCheggs> :>
[21:32] <ingmar_> hi.. can anyone look and see whats wrong with a simple script i wrote? whats that site where you can copy paste your code?
[21:32] <bioterror> !paste
[21:32] <ingmar_> ty
[21:33] <ingmar_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/915215/ its really simple just a script that counts.. or should
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> ingmar_; is this line correct? number=$((number + 1))
[21:37] <ingmar_> yes.. it should count up $until it reaches $number2 right?
[21:37] <ingmar_> * it should count up $number till it reaches $number2
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> number=$(($number + 1)) or just number+=1 ?
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> Probably the first
[22:43] <jmarsden|work> ingmar_: The increment line can be written as   ((number+=1))
[22:44] <MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; current line doesn't work right?
[22:44] <jmarsden|work> The extra $ at the front of the (( causes issues, it tries to evaluate the resulting expression.
[22:45] <jmarsden|work> ((n+1)) is an example in the Advanced Bash Scripting Guide... so that way *definitely* works :)
[22:46] <jmarsden|work> ((n+=1)) I meant
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> ^_^
[23:42] <AMIGAS> how do i change the wallpaper?
[23:45] <wxl> AMIGAS: right click on desktop > Desktop Preferences …should be obvious at that point ;)
[23:48] <AMIGAS> wxl: it's not there
[23:48] <wxl> AMIGAS: strange. it's here. last item in the context menu. what do you get? i.e. what are all the options?
[23:51] <wxl> AMIGAS: try hitting alt-f2 and enter `pcmanfm --desktop-pref` (without the quotes) and hit enter
[23:52] <AMIGAS> wxl: terminal, browser, desktops, ob conf, reconfigure, restart ans exit
[23:52] <wxl> while you're in that dialog from the above, click on the advanced tab and UNcheck the "show menus provided by window managers…" option
[23:53] <wxl> which will fix the right click menu next time
[23:53] <wxl> ^ AMIGAS
[23:55] <AMIGAS> where is that?
[23:56] <wxl> if you do what i said above you'll see
[23:56] <wxl> AMIGAS: try hitting alt-f2 and enter `pcmanfm --desktop-pref` (without the quotes) and hit enter
[23:57] <AMIGAS> ok i see then
[23:58] <AMIGAS> lol oh thanks but why couldn't i find it anywhere?
[23:58] <wxl> the answer to your problem? it's in the faq
[23:59] <wxl> it would have been nice if we would have used the openbox menu (the one you were originally seeing) for our context menu but to keep the theme looking the same we used a different one
[23:59] <wxl> if you accidentially hit that checkbox i mentioned, it just disappears with no apparent solution
[23:59] <wxl> so it's got its pros and cons


[00:04] <leonardo> hola
[00:04] <Guest19676> hola
 @carbonzero, The only way you're going to know that is if you try it yourself. Would require updating, probably.
[00:06] <Eickmeyer> valorie: Yeah, tsimonq2 was working on it. Definitely a mixup in a .desktop file.
[05:57] <rahulch>  /join #kde-edu
[05:57] <rahulch> oops, sorry
[09:14] <IrcsomeBot2> <Chandra Sekhar> How to install Adobe photoshop in kubuntu system?
 @Chandra Sekhar, Photoshop … Graphics Editor … Gimp … http://www.gimp.org … Inkscape … http://www.inkscape.org … Krita … https://krita.org … MyPaint … http://mypaint.intilinux.com … Pinta … http://pintaproject.com/ … Pixlr … http://pixlr.com … PicMonkey … http://www.picmonkey.com
 try these alternatives
 @carbonzero, Lubuntu are working on it: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T15
[10:20] <Groot> is anyone awake?
[10:56] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:41] <manager_> Всем привет!
[11:45] <Greenfrog> moweiew?
[11:46] <Greenfrog> spk engish please
[11:47] <acheronuk> they left
[11:47] <Greenfrog> otherwise there must be a channel that speaks your language
[11:48] <Greenfrog> we speak english here :)
[11:48] <BluesKaj> the russian is gone Greenfrog
[11:48] <Greenfrog> sorry
[11:51] <Greenfrog> is the same when i talk to tech support.  i appreciate u speak english but i need some one that speaks English well enough to communicate techinal issues
[11:52] <Greenfrog> they don't
[11:52] <BluesKaj>  u speak english?
[11:52] <Greenfrog> it's offshore tech support, the co. that hires them don' care
[11:53] <Greenfrog> yes
[11:53] <Greenfrog> you don't?
[11:53] <BluesKaj> no text speak here please , spell out your words
[11:54] <Greenfrog> what didm
[11:54] <Greenfrog> didn't i spell out?
[11:54] <BluesKaj> u for you
[11:54] <Greenfrog> just asking
[11:54] <BluesKaj> !u
[11:54] <Greenfrog> i see
[11:55] <Greenfrog> ok got it
[11:56] <Greenfrog> thanks sorry for the trunkacation
[11:58] <jubo2> y0 piippöl
[11:58] <jubo2> Got a suggestion for an innovative feature for Kubuntu
[11:59] <jubo2> I just posted this in #firefox, but as I state there this is an OS thing, not a FF thing
[11:59] <jubo2> [14:45] <jubo2> I got a suggestion / feature request, but this is more likely something to be done in the OS and not FF, but I gonna post here anyways: It would be very nice to be able to set an icon for each FireFox window so that when I click on the FF in task bar the logos would tell me much quicker which window I want
[11:59] <jubo2> [14:45] <jubo2> Now all the windows just show the FireFox logo and at least for me it would be helpful to have a graphic per window so I can faster find the window I'm looking for
[12:01] <jubo2> Can anyone give an estimate of how much work it would require to give the ability for the user to set a logo per open window of an application? If it is not very much worth I'd like to file this as an official feature request in the appropriate ticket system
[12:01] <user|31596> hi Im so sorry but what is the system requirements for kubuntu 18.10?
[12:02] <jubo2> user|31596: More than 4GB RAM in my exprience, but I am no expert, nor Kubuntu insider
[12:02] <user|31596> ok bye
[14:00] <mzuverink> Can someone point me to a how to set up of Latte Dock, or the plasmoid version of Latte Dock? I cannot figure out how to get it to the bottom center of the desktop.
 Mzuverink: right click the dock, choose latte settings, under behavior choose bottom and center.
[21:26] <viewer|4933> hi
[21:58] <IrcsomeBot2> BL4CK19 was added by: BL4CK19
 hi
[22:07] <IrcsomeBot2> <Tourist Sam> hello
[22:22] <Guest44752> my .xsession-errors have 100 gb
[22:23] <Guest44752> after sudo rm the space is not free
[22:23] <Guest44752> and trash is clear
[22:24] <Guest44752> fkn kde force me to reboot cause of this shit
[23:28] <IrcsomeBot2> Emily Rogers was added by: Emily Rogers
[23:28] <IrcsomeBot2> <Emily Rogers> Минутка рекламы … Как вы знаете, телеграм только что удалил официальный канала ХИДРА   😭 … Поэтому мы вынуждены рассказать вам о новых каналах 😊 … Официальный сайт:  😱 hydra-site.cn … @gidrasf_gazhish_zakladki … @gidra_zakladki_onlain  … @GASHISHT … @E_Lexer … @hidra_gydra_hudr
[23:28] <IrcsomeBot2> вопросы   💋💋 … @SUPPCCRC … @GIDRA_SHOP24 … @GIDRA_MAGAZIN … @NARKO_KARTEL


[01:55] <grantphone> i am changing a flat so I can not host the meeting, sorry
[01:55] <grantphone> ttyl
[02:09] <pleia2> so, looks like grantbow had some car troubles
[02:10] <pleia2> and I'm on an airplane (internet not so good, may drop at any time ;))
[02:10] <eps> Yay for ubiquitous Internet access!
[02:10] <pleia2> if anyone has any informal comments that's cool, but no formal meeting today I think
[02:11] <pleia2> philipballew volunteered at the ubuntu booth at oscon, it was quite hectic :)
[02:12] <pleia2> I'll confirm with grantbow that he can host next time (I'll probably be on a plane then too)
[02:13] <eps> Give us dirt! (Ubuntu Edge, Nexus 7 v2, etc.)
[02:13] <pleia2> there was an ubuntu edge prototype at oscon, non-functioning
[02:13] <pleia2> had to look at the nexus4s and stuff they had to see ubuntu phone software working :)
[02:14] <pleia2> looked pretty slick though
[02:16] <pleia2> I will mention that we haven't been massively active aside from ubuntu hours (which are great!) lately
[02:16] <pleia2> gonna start brainstorming more about things to do
[02:17] <pleia2> looks like the ubuntu global jam is going to be the weekend of sept 13th: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[02:17] <darthrobot> Title: [UbuntuGlobalJam - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:17] <pleia2> I'll confirm
[02:17] <eps> A BBQ? Software Freedom Day?
[02:17] <pleia2> either would be good
[02:17] <pleia2> jono has said he'd bbq for us, but he is always so busy, probably don't want to wait for him :)
[02:18] <pleia2> release is scheduled for october 17th, and I should be in town for once
[02:18] <pleia2> hope to do something for that :) maybe panera finally
[02:19] <pleia2> I'll put an email together with all these ideas, thanks eps
[02:19]  * pleia2 entering bumpy part of flight, disconnects from ssh
[02:30] <kotux> Man, oscon must have been a lot of fun.
[02:30] <Torikun> I wish the Ubuntu phone was cheaper
[02:30] <kotux> Me too
[02:30] <kotux> It sells like a premium.
[02:30] <Torikun> I know
[02:31] <Torikun> I pay $200
[02:31] <Torikun> nothing more
[02:33] <Torikun> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mark-Shuttleworth-Announces-Six-Years-of-Support-for-Ubuntu-Edge-371641.shtml
[02:33] <darthrobot> Title: [Mark Shuttleworth Announces Six Years of Support for Ubuntu Edge]
[02:33] <Torikun> That is great
[02:33] <Torikun> Go Mark!
[02:34] <Torikun> Ubuntu is doing something better than every phone vendor except for Apple
[02:34] <Torikun> Apple supports their devices longer than Google
[02:42] <troyready> I hope the Edge meets its funding goal; I'll be really jazzed to get one
[02:43] <troyready> Definitely a premium product, but it's  a pretty cool way to start offering it, and seems like a bargain for all you get
[02:50] <Torikun> Almost 7 Million
[02:50] <Torikun> not even half way
[02:54] <troyready> yeah, they'd have to come up with something really crazy for the end of the campaign to get the needed numbers. Doesn't seem like it can be done at this point
[07:38] <nhaines> grantbow: although they claim that the power off thing is fixed, these are all filthy lies from the heart of Mordor.[6~


[00:14] <fta> asac, where is that tag? can't find it on http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/tags
[00:15] <fta> asac, nm
[00:43] <fta> [reed], you don't have b4pre yet?
[00:44] <dtchen> fta: are you still using Luke's 0.9.15 tests, or did you revert to jaunty's or my PPA?
[00:44] <dtchen> (for PulseAudio)
[00:44] <fta> dtchen, 0.9.15~test5-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[00:44] <dtchen> ok, so the former.
[11:24] <asac> fta: you uploaded b3 build2 to fta only? ;)
[11:25] <asac> fta: you blame me for 1.9.1b3pre gre conf breakage?
[11:26] <asac> when did i last touch anything in postinst scripts there ;)
[11:28] <asac> scary bug 338607
[11:28] <asac> so is gwibber back? ;)
[11:29] <asac> sigh
[12:35] <fta> hi
[12:38] <fta> asac, yeah, only in ~fta, it was late and i wanted to test it a little bit more
[12:41] <asac> fta: ok sure.
[12:41] <asac> fta: thats fine ;)
[12:42] <fta> did you test it?
[12:42] <asac> 3.1?
[12:42] <asac> i upgraded, run no
[12:42] <asac> let me try ;)
[12:43] <asac> fta: starts, tried a bit. seems good; just upload
[12:43] <asac> looked throug dialogs ... seems fine
[12:44] <asac> fta: can you upload the gtkwebkit package to the gwibber PPA?
[12:44] <asac> its stuck in new, and i think a bunch of folks use that
[12:49] <sebner> asac: ahaha! http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/files/2009/03/unclesam.jpg
[13:02] <fta> archive.u.c is slow today: Fetched 200MB in 18min 0s (185kB/s)
[13:06] <fta> asac, you wanted a bug for ff3.1, right?
[13:21] <asac> fta: yeah. thats a good formal thing to have. you can just paste the irc line i gave you
[13:21] <asac> hmm ... gnomefreak should subscribe mozilla-bugs team to ffox 3.1 and xul 1.9.1
[13:34] <asac> gnomefreak: you got mail (bugmail for ffox 3.1 and xul 1.9.1)
[13:34] <asac> ;)
[13:34] <asac> thanks
[13:34]  * asac finally really packs things and starts travel soon
[13:34] <asac> bbl tonight
[13:35] <gnomefreak> asac: thanks i'll look in a minute
[15:24] <gnomefreak> !info xulrunner-1.9
[15:35] <BUGabundo> fta python-webkit still no build ?
[15:35] <fta> it's waiting in the bin-NEW queue
[15:35] <fta> i pushed it to the gwibber PPAs too, to speed up the process
[15:37] <fta> just upgraded my main desktop, i lost miro, deluge, gdesklets and serpentine
[15:39] <BUGabundo> deluge is working here
[15:39] <BUGabundo> or it was... neeed to check
[15:39] <BUGabundo> what PPA as it? I need it bad...
[15:39] <BUGabundo> no gwibber for weeekkkkkkkkkkssssssssssss
[15:40] <fta> both gwibber-team and -daily
[15:40] <fta> works for me now
[15:41]  * BUGabundo checks daily...
[15:41] <BUGabundo> it doesn't show up on my cache
[15:41] <BUGabundo> for daily
[15:42] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/127792/
[15:43] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/127793/
[15:44] <BUGabundo> refresing once again
[15:46] <BUGabundo> The following extra packages will be installed:
[15:46] <BUGabundo>   python-webkit python-webkitgtk
[15:46] <BUGabundo> there it is!!!!
[15:53] <BUGabundo> fta my FF 3.1 LOST all its history today after upgrades!!
[15:53] <BUGabundo> I can't live like this!! I NEED my browser history
[15:53] <BUGabundo> luckly I have backups!
[15:53] <BUGabundo> on bzr
[16:16] <thunderstruck> BUGabundo: take history pages and save them in bookmarks ;)
[16:16] <BUGabundo> LOLOLOL
[16:18] <gnomefreak> mine stayed
[16:19] <BUGabundo> mine didn't
[16:19] <BUGabundo> I'm stucked!
[16:19] <gnomefreak> all 3.1 updates are fta shouldnt they be in umd?
[16:19] <BUGabundo> need to bzr -are and older backup
[16:19] <BUGabundo> *bzr -r
[16:19] <BUGabundo> umd of course
[16:19] <gnomefreak> my 3.1 are not umd
[16:19] <gnomefreak> 3.2 is
[16:20] <BUGabundo> both of mine are
[16:22] <gnomefreak> 3.1~b3+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta1
[16:28] <gnomefreak> i fucking hate today already
[16:28] <BUGabundo> LOL
[16:28] <BUGabundo> why?
[16:28] <gnomefreak> is there a source repo for tuxfamily? i looked and didnt find one
[16:29] <BUGabundo> ask caroline
[17:16] <Jazzva> asac: ping
[17:59] <unixdawg> hey guys
[18:00] <unixdawg> having a issue with firefox segfaulting
[18:01] <unixdawg> asac you here
[18:02] <unixdawg> or fta ?
[18:04] <Turl> fta2: ^
[18:04] <BUGabundo1> eheh
[18:04] <BUGabundo1> calm donw!
[18:04] <BUGabundo1> just wait for one of them to come here!
[18:05] <BUGabundo1> they are not just sitting in front of a LCD waiting for you guys to come in and ask
[18:05] <unixdawg> I just asked
[18:06] <BUGabundo1> 4 lines to make a simple question?
[18:06] <BUGabundo1> your trying to still my place as official spammer? ;)
[18:06] <unixdawg> your the one bing jumpy I am just tired of this happening and everyone saying its my hardware when I have run full hardware test
[18:06] <BUGabundo1> install gdb version and run it on gdb to get a backtrace
[18:07] <BUGabundo1> that will surelly help A LOT
[18:33] <Jazzva> asac: bug 321814 .. I have pushed the branch with the patch that is not using iceweasel dir. It seems to me that it's also wrong that flashplugin-nonfree's prerm script is not calling nspluginwrapper --remove to remove the wrappers. Sorry for the delay.
[18:53] <Jazzva> asac: in patch 000_deb... there is a part where npw installs default links. If we don't want that, then maybe we should skip that part. If we want to keep that, then we need to add "nspluginwrapper -r" to flashplugin-nonfree's prerm script.
[21:01] <jdong> asac: ROFL ignore my sqlite death story the other day.


[05:20] <nuvolari> peer! hou op om mense se konneksies te reset
[05:20] <nuvolari> oh hi Tonberry
[05:20] <Tonberry> hello
[05:26] <Kilos> morning all
[05:33] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos
[05:33] <Kilos> lo nuvolari
[05:51] <JabberwockyA19> môre Kilos, nuvolari, Private_User
[05:51] <Kilos> hi JabberwockyA19
[05:52] <Private_User> hry JabberwockyA19
[05:52] <Private_User> hey JabberwockyA19
[06:22] <ThatGraemeGuy_> 'lo
[06:23] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[06:23] <Kilos> hi priv
[06:24] <Kilos> Private_User1,
[06:56] <bduk> More almal
[07:04] <charl_> good morning
[07:04] <charl_> hi ThatGraemeGuy_, Private_User1, JabberwockyA19, Kilos, bduk
[07:04] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[07:04]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[07:04] <Kilos> hi charl_ bduk
[07:08] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_!
[07:08] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[07:08] <Maaz> charl_: Sure
[08:04] <Vince-0> o/
[08:04] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[08:09] <Vince-0> surp
[08:09] <Kilos> apart from cold all good and you?
[08:10] <Kilos> inetpro, cremora
[10:12] <Kilos> sjoe, buncha yoyos
[10:39] <mazal> Afternoon everyone
[10:40] <charl_> hi mazal
[11:12] <ThatGraemeGuy_> 'lo
[11:14] <mazal> Guys how can I see the progress of a cli scrypt that is started by cron and runs in the background ?
[11:19] <ThatGraemeGuy_> define "progress"
[11:19] <ThatGraemeGuy_> you want to see if its still running?
[11:19] <ThatGraemeGuy_> ps -ef|grep scriptname
[11:24] <mazal> Yeah all I need to know , is it running or has it finished yet
[11:24] <ThatGraemeGuy_> yeah, that ^^
[11:25] <mazal> Danke
[11:25] <ThatGraemeGuy_> in your cron file add<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:25] <ThatGraemeGuy_> then the output of the script will be emailed to you
[11:25] <mazal> If I run that now , it shows the filename and where it lies
[11:26] <ThatGraemeGuy_> that means its still running
[11:26] <ThatGraemeGuy_> 'ps' shows information about processes currently running
[11:27] <mazal> http://slexy.org/view/s2W0Pz21Od
[11:27] <mazal> That's my output
[11:27] <ThatGraemeGuy_> ah, ok
[11:27] <ThatGraemeGuy_> not running then, the grep is matching itself :)
[11:28] <mazal> What do I need to modify in that command ?
[11:28] <ThatGraemeGuy_> nothing
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> just be aware when you do that you will always see the grep command in the output
[11:29] <mazal> Ok lemme starts that script manually and see how the output looks when it's running
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> or use a regex trick, if your script is named 'myscript.sh' you can do 'ps -ef | grep [m]yscript'
[11:30] <mazal> http://slexy.org/view/s21jp4OVU6
[11:30] <ThatGraemeGuy_> or you can use pgrep: pgrep myscript.sh
[11:30] <mazal> ^^ With the scrypt running
[11:30] <ThatGraemeGuy_> yeah, line 2 shows it is running
[11:32] <mazal> Command not found
[11:32] <mazal> That's when I use that last one you gave
[11:34] <ThatGraemeGuy_> ubuntu?
[11:34] <mazal> Yeah
[11:34] <ThatGraemeGuy_> mmm that's odd :-/
[11:35] <mazal> Or I miss splelled , lemme try again
[11:36] <Kilos> haha copy paste commands from pros then cold fingers cant mess up
[11:36] <mazal> I spelled rubbish , now it works. Thanx Greame ;)
[11:38] <mazal> oom Kilos , what makes it worse , I tried 3 times with the same error
[11:38] <mazal> So I can't even spell right with 3 tries :P
[11:38] <Kilos> lol
[11:39] <Kilos> those kinda messups you normally keep quiet about
[11:39] <Kilos> i copy/paste then peeps think i type well
[11:39] <Kilos> haha
[11:51] <Kilos> hmm...
[11:52] <Kilos> were there any plans in the state of the nation address to improve the internet
[11:53] <Kilos> tumbleweed, are you still going strong? you too quiet lately
[11:57] <Private_User1> hi charl_, ThatGraemeGuy_, mazal, and everybody else
[11:58] <mazal> Hi Private_User1
[11:59] <ThatGraemeGuy_> 'lo
[11:59] <tumbleweed> Kilos: yeah, pretty much. Still in cape town, too
[12:00] <Kilos> ah tumbleweed nice to know you still ok. keep well
[12:01] <Kilos> meeting in 6 days time
[12:10] <Kilos> wbb
[12:41] <bduk1> Buy guys
[14:42] <Kilos> hi tinuva
[14:42] <Kilos> do you actually know you have irc running?
[15:53] <tinuva> Kilos, I do :P
[15:53] <tinuva> i read more than i chat tho
[15:53] <Kilos> hahaha you naughty
[15:53] <Kilos> oh do you read at leas
[15:53] <Kilos> least
[15:54] <Kilos> you supposed to jump in and help peeps that are sukkeling
[16:28]  * Kilos goes for supper
[17:58] <Kilos> ai!
[18:01] <Kilos> ai! mr fly. lag be killing the patrons
[18:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> superfly: you around?
[18:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> and hello everyone else :)
[18:03] <superfly> I are
[18:03] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[18:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> that map generator thing, does it make use of a colors.txt file by any chance?
[18:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> hey Kilos :)
[18:03] <superfly> yes
[18:04] <superfly> it doesn't support the moreblocks and other mods
[18:04] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/colors.txt
[18:04] <ThatGraemeGuy> this one does ^^
[18:04] <ThatGraemeGuy> assuming that's the same format of course
[18:06] <superfly> first run indicates not. Let me open it
[18:08] <superfly> ah, it doesn't support comments ;-)
[18:11] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: try now, ThatGraemeGuy-son
[18:11] <superfly> *san
[18:19] <kbmonkey> evening superfly and ThatGraemeGuy
[18:19] <Kilos> my monkey
[18:19] <kbmonkey> superfly, I have started going through the mozilla knowledgebase re JavaScript :)
[18:19] <Kilos> dont greet me its fine
[18:19] <kbmonkey> is Kilos here?
[18:20] <kbmonkey> oh hello Kilos! You are covered in minerock dust I did not even see you ;)
[18:20] <Kilos> kilos is always her
[18:20] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:20] <kbmonkey> ha ha
[18:22] <Kilos> shame daniel put up a shot on the way to the dam
[18:22] <Kilos> i dropped some food there for him
[18:23] <Kilos> hope its a takeaway not a general dealer
[18:26] <kbmonkey> a shop? okay.
[18:26] <Kilos> shame hes only 10
[18:26] <Kilos> ardonels son
[18:29] <kbmonkey> he put up a shop?
[18:29] <kbmonkey> wow
[18:29] <Kilos> ya lemme go see what he called it
[18:29] <Kilos> i think dad helps with the spelling and so on
[18:30] <Kilos> you must see their lekker place. even a hall of honourable dead haha
[18:31] <kbmonkey> is this in-game ?
[18:31] <kbmonkey> for a moment I thought you meant IRL xD
[18:31] <Kilos> no man in the game
[18:33] <kbmonkey> ah
[18:37] <kbmonkey> superfly, I am curious what license you prefer between BSD or GPL, and if the latter v2 or 3?
[18:38] <superfly> kbmonkey: generally GPL v2
[18:38] <superfly> but I'm fine with any of the above
[19:02] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah superfly i see you got the colours right :-) much better
[19:45] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: I've been known to do a thing or two right ;-)
[19:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> lol
[21:10] <Rynomster> hi guys, any of u into crypto currencies? :)
[21:17] <superfly> I have a tiny part of a bitcoin, but otherwise no.


[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting.  who's here today?
[15:00] <salgado> me
[15:00] <flacoste> me
[15:01] <BjornT> me
[15:01] <abentley> me
[15:02] <bac> me
[15:02] <barry> danilos, EdwinGrubb, sinzui ping
[15:02] <sinzui> me
[15:02] <danilos> me
[15:02] <EdwinGrubb> me
[15:03] <barry> gmb: ping?
[15:03] <gmb> me
[15:03]  * sinzui sips lovely coffee
[15:03] <gmb> barry: Oops, sorry.
[15:03] <bigjools> me
[15:03] <barry> cprov-afk: ping
[15:03] <barry> anybody else missing?
[15:04] <cprov-afk> me
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:04] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:04] <barry>  * The Kiko way to quick and easy reviews (barry, kiko)
[15:04] <barry>  * Pre-implementation calls
[15:04] <barry>  * If there's time, the old boring script
[15:04] <barry>    * Next meeting
[15:04] <barry>    * Action items
[15:04] <barry>    * Queue status
[15:04] <barry>    * Mentoring update
[15:04] <barry> i want to try something different today
[15:05] <barry> i want to talk about the fun stuff first, and then do the boring scripted stuff last if there's time.  any objections?
[15:05] <barry> great!
[15:05] <barry> :)
[15:05] <barry> [TOPIC] quick and easy reviews
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  quick and easy reviews
[15:05] <barry> did anybody /not/ get a chance to read the message i sent around this morning on this topic?
[15:06] <bac> me
[15:06] <abentley> me
[15:06] <barry> (it's not a problem of course :)
[15:06] <flacoste> better than that, i tried it out!
[15:06] <barry> flacoste: excellent!  i'll ask you about your feedback in a bit
[15:06] <barry> so let me try to summarize...
[15:07] <barry> we want to make reviewing quick, easy, and fun
[15:07] <barry> kiko, flacoste and i have been talking about this a bit so here are some key insights:
[15:07] <barry> - reviews are a mediocre qa tool, but an excellent learning tool
[15:08] <barry> - don't research, ask questions
[15:08] <barry> - ask more questions
[15:08] <barry> - improve your code scanning abilities; identify changes, ask a question and move on
[15:08] <barry> - concentrate on stuff that looks weird.  if you see something that looks weird... ask a question!
[15:08] <barry> there's more in the email but the goal is this:
[15:09] <barry> medium sized branches should take around 15 minutes to review.  large branches no longer than 30 minutes
[15:09] <barry> first let me ask flacoste to give his impressions, having been our trail blazer, then let's open this to some discussion...
[15:09] <barry> flacoste: ?
[15:10] <flacoste> i agree, it was fun and fast
[15:10] <flacoste> well
[15:10] <flacoste> it was a 2000 lines branch
[15:10] <flacoste> so it still took 1.5h
[15:10] <flacoste> but still
[15:10] <barry> !
[15:10] <flacoste> i'm looking forward to seeing stub's reply
[15:10] <flacoste> but there was a lot of questions in there
[15:10]  * barry spends that much time on an 800 line branch
[15:11] <flacoste> and the trick is really that as soon as you stop and wonder...
[15:11] <flacoste> write down a question
[15:12] <barry> flacoste: great point: trust your gut.  i've been trying to train myself that if the question pops in my mind, don't suppress it
[15:12] <barry> ask it
[15:12] <barry> flacoste: anything else?
[15:13] <flacoste> not really, it's that simple
[15:13] <flacoste> but like i said this means that all initial reviews are needs-reply
[15:13] <flacoste> which is fine, but i'll see how it unfolds
[15:14] <barry> flacoste: thanks.  okay.  i'll open the floor for discussion
[15:14] <abentley> I've found that people are slow to answer questions when doing on-call reviews.  The process just drags.
[15:15] <abentley> Also, if the main purpose of reviews is QA, and they're a mediocre tool, are they worth it?
[15:15] <sinzui> I have found developers more than happy to explain how I'm wrong during on-call reviews.
[15:15] <bigjools> then go to the next review, that's the dev's problem not yours.  OCRs are meant for quick reviews.
[15:16] <barry> bigjools: +1.  we want to reduce stall
[15:17] <barry> and remember, it's the dev's responsibility to shepherd their branch, and to respond to questions
[15:17] <bigjools> exactly
[15:17] <barry> abentley: review is never going to make a branch perfect anyway
[15:18] <flacoste> the main purpose of a review isn't QA
[15:18] <gmb> We can't catch the majority of annoying bugs using reviews. We *can* prevent a lot of stupid bugs by doing them.
[15:18] <abentley> barry: Yeah, but a sloppy review isn't even going to prevent the quality of launchpad's codebase from deteriorating.
[15:18] <barry> abentley: kiko's insight is that reviews are for learning and questioning first.  it's by the process of questioning that the dev begins to re-examine some of the assumptions they've made
[15:18] <flacoste> but to ensure some uniformity in code
[15:18] <flacoste> and to improve the quality of the code
[15:18] <flacoste> and also to spread knowledge around
[15:18] <flacoste> that last point is probably the most important
[15:18] <flacoste> a lot of ideas will cross-pollinate through reviews
[15:18] <flacoste> where the reviewer will either learn a new technique by looking at the code
[15:19] <flacoste> or will suggest an improvement that will make the dev learn a new pattern or technique
[15:19] <barry> flacoste, gmb exactly
[15:20] <gmb> Actually, I'd *really* like us to emphasise that reviews are not a bug prevention tool.
[15:20] <bigjools> something that we do in Soyuz is a "pre-review" with a domain expert, it's just a quick look at the code to make sure it's doing what we all expect it to do before a real review
[15:20] <barry> abentley: i think more emphasis on pre/mid-impls and continuous qa will do more to improve quality
[15:20] <gmb> Because doing a review and trying to look for bugs makes life really, really hard for the reviewer, and hurts my brain.
[15:21] <barry> bigjools: that's very interesting
[15:21] <gmb> The checks for a review should be:
[15:21] <bigjools> so maybe pre-review to look for bugs, main review for the big picture?
[15:21] <gmb>  * Does the code do what it says it does (needs a domain expert sometimes)
[15:21] <gmb>  * Is the code covered in tests
[15:21] <gmb>  * If there's something weird, why is it weird?
[15:21] <gmb>  * Does to code conform to our standards.
[15:21] <abentley> gmb: bugs are hard to catch in review.  Lack of test coverage is easier.  Design flaws easier still.
[15:22] <gmb> abentley: Right. Design flaws should be caught in the pre-imp.
[15:22] <sinzui> gmb: I also look for: does the code reinvent what we already have?
[15:22] <gmb> sinzui: That's not always easy if you don't know much about domain context though.
[15:22] <abentley> gmb: IME, pre-imp focuses on "what", not "how".
[15:23] <gmb> abentley: I always try to come to a pre-imp ready-to-code, which means I have tests, which means I have a design.
[15:23] <sinzui> gmb: Reviewers can can see outside the domain, where common problems are solved.
[15:23] <barry> gmb: though you /can/ sniff out refactoring potential even if you don't know specifically.  if in doubt... ask!
[15:23] <gmb> True enough.
[15:23] <gmb> And I confess I like weilding the YAGNI bat every once in a while.
[15:24] <abentley> gmb: I don't.  And I don't agree that having tests means you have enough design to be sure there aren't design flaws.
[15:25] <barry> abentley: it's not the reviewer's responsibility to uncover design flaws, imo, that's also way too late in the process
[15:26] <kiko> abentley, sure, but what impact could that have on review? the most you can say "this code looks like crap. how can we improve it?"
[15:26] <barry> kiko: and if so, ask that question and kick it out quickly
[15:26] <bigjools> barry: but it's a useful backtop
[15:26] <abentley> kiko: You can say "doing it that way will scale badly and fail in production.  Have you considered doing it this way?"
[15:27] <kiko> abentley, sure, and that's insightful, but if it was me I would not even state, and just ask "how well will this scale in production, considering we have 1500 neutrinos being frobbed every run of the proton accelerator?"
[15:27] <kiko> I always ask
[15:27] <kiko> let the coder figure out the answer
[15:28] <barry> bigjools: yes, but only as a sanity check.  iow, if it smells bad, it's the dev's burden of proof
[15:28] <kiko> and TBH I don't care too much if it works or not -- I just care that I get a reasonable answer from the coder
[15:28] <bigjools> barry: agreed
[15:29] <barry> it makes them stop and think, and maybe identify holes in their own design or code
[15:30] <barry> so anyway, i encourage you all to respond to the ml thread.  be critical and (yes you guessed it) ask question!
[15:31] <barry> cprov-afk: has to leave early and sends his apologies
[15:31] <barry> [TOPIC] pre-impls
[15:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  pre-impls
[15:31] <barry> i have just a few thoughts, which i'm going to put into an email after this meetingggg
[15:32] <barry> so you're getting the raw brain dump :)
[15:32] <barry> - we want to include beuno in pre-impls concerning u/i.  do a 3-way call with him to sanity check th eui
[15:32] <barry> - is it okay to bounce branches that have no pre-impl?
[15:32] <barry> - btw, a pre-impl can also be a mid-impl
[15:33] <barry> - include the q/a plan in the cover letter (cprov's email which i havent' read yet)
[15:33] <barry> - no pre-imp, no on-call review?
[15:33] <barry> - one exception: cleanup branches.  do 'em fast, get 'em reviewed fast, land it... JFDI
[15:34] <barry> that's it.  any comments?
[15:35] <sinzui> When we do UI changes, do we include a sketch?
[15:35] <BjornT> i think it's ok to bounce branches that have no pre-impl call, if they have design flaws. if not, no reason to bounce.
[15:36] <barry> sinzui: are you a good artist? :)
[15:36] <barry> BjornT: good point.  a lot depends (for me) on the cover letter.  if it's detailed enough that i understand the tradeoffs and design decisions, i might let it pass
[15:36] <barry> if not, bounce and move on
[15:37] <barry> sinzui: i'm not sure how beuno wants to work re: ui review prep.  we'll have to ask.  or do you mean in the cover letter?
[15:38] <sinzui> barry: I write tests and implementation before I do a preimp. I image I would also be using ascii art to illustrate behaviour.
[15:39] <sinzui> s/implementation/implementation examples/
[15:39] <barry> sinzui: ah.  is that because you're trying to figure out how to attack the issue?
[15:39] <barry> i ask because i try not to write anything before having the pre-imp, except notes & cover
[15:40] <sinzui> barry: right. Only one implementation example ever worked by pasting it into the code as I recall.
[15:41] <sinzui> barry: I use tests to set scope, judge the number of branches I need, and to establish ne APIs.
[15:41] <barry> sinzui: i agree that all those thing make for a solidly researched branch
[15:41] <sinzui> I suppose I am really doing a mid-imp since I may have the branch complete before I talk to someone.
[15:42] <barry> sinzui: which is fine :)
[15:42] <barry> okay, we have just a couple of minutes left.  as i said, i'll take this to the ml too
[15:43] <barry> any comments on the new format?  i'm trying to get away from the old boring scripted meeting
[15:44] <flacoste> works from now
[15:44] <flacoste> but it's not like the old scripted one
[15:44] <flacoste> was taking most of the meeting
[15:44] <barry> flacoste: yeah, but i like the meat up front :)
[15:45] <flacoste> it's just that the first common 10 minutes are at the end instead of the beginning
[15:45] <barry> anyway, we're out of time, so thanks everybody!
[15:45] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:45.