[01:40] <bddebian> Hello
[02:14] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:17] <ogra> sbalneav !
[02:17] <sbalneav> ogra!
[02:17] <sbalneav> Burning the midnight oil?
[02:17] <ogra> heh, a bit
[02:17] <sbalneav> I was just going to address pitti round two, then start looking at ltsp-manager.
[02:17] <ogra> we need to change your naming in /media
[02:18] <sbalneav> Sure, what would you like?
[02:18] <ogra> ogra2-cdrom wont be recognized by g-v-m
[02:18] <ogra> make it /media/ogra2/cdrom
[02:18] <sbalneav> Oh!  Will it "see" into subdirectories?
[02:18] <pygi> ogra, you have a sec for me?
[02:18] <sbalneav> Sure, easy peasy.
[02:18] <ogra> sbalneav, yup, totally
[02:18] <ogra> :)
[02:18] <ogra> then we have the right icons
[02:19] <sbalneav> gimme 5 five minutes.
[02:19] <ogra> i'll have to rethink cdpinger
[02:19] <ogra> :/
[02:19] <ogra> since ltspfsd constantly triggers CDROM.CDROM_DISC_STATUS  ...
[02:20] <sbalneav> Want me to put some thought to that?  I had a couple of idears anyway.  I'll hash 'em out, try to get something something working.
[02:20] <ogra> shouldnt be a big prob, i can check for CDROM_DISC_CHANGED
[02:21] <ogra> but now that i got the current code working some funnny things started to hapen, like nautilus popping up a window everytime ltspfsd triggers the cd
[02:21] <ogra> pygi, yep
[02:22] <pygi> ogra, why would I get "/usr/include/libburn/0/libburn/" instead of normal "/usr/include/libburn/libburn"?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:22] <ogra> phew, no idea
[02:22] <jsgotangco> you guys are still awake
[02:22] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:22] <pygi> ogra, this is bugging me :-/
[02:22] <ogra> jsgotangco, hardly
[02:22] <jsgotangco> you're all supposed to sleep
[02:22] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:22] <pygi> jsgotangco, 2:23 am
[02:22] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:22] <ogra> hmm
[02:23] <ogra> seems croatia is 1 munite ahead of me
[02:23] <pygi> jsgotangco, I can't sleep until I solve this, so ^_^
[02:23] <ogra> *minute
[02:23] <jsgotangco> i hear ya i've been there
[02:23] <pygi> any solutions?
[02:23] <pygi> ogra, hehe :)
[02:24] <ogra> not really, find out why the 0 is added :)
[02:24] <pygi> o joy, will bug someone else later then :)
[02:24] <pygi> once I wake up, I hope :P
[02:24] <ogra> are you talking abou tthe package build or the compiler run ?
[02:25] <pygi> this doesn't have anything to do with package
[02:25] <ogra> ok, so its the linking ...
[02:25] <sbalneav> ogra: Do you want ltspmount to make the intermediate "/media/uid/" directory, or will the script do it?
[02:26] <sbalneav> no, wait, I have to do it
[02:26] <sbalneav> I'm the setuid one
[02:26] <ogra> i'm fine leaving that to ltspmount
[02:26] <ogra> yeah
[02:26] <sbalneav> k,
[02:26] <pygi> ogra, oki, thanks anyway ^_^
[02:26] <sbalneav> that will take.... more than 5 minutes :(
[02:27] <ogra> oh, right ... you need to add a lot of checks :(
[02:35] <ogra> hmm, easy ... the cdpinger just needs a check if /dev/cdrom is in /proc/mounts
[02:35] <sbalneav> smart
[02:49] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, got it.  Haven't addressed a couple of pitti's concern's yet, but It works for testing.  emailing....
[02:50] <sbalneav> sended
[03:05] <ogra> hrm
[03:05] <ogra> /proc/mounts doesnt help
[03:05] <ogra> i should stop for today ...
[03:05] <ogra> indeed it gets unmounted by ltspfsd
[03:05] <ogra> so it doesnt show up in /proc/mounts
[03:06] <ogra> sbalneav, how do you work around that problem in lbus ?
[03:07] <sbalneav> Well, in lbus, adding a cdrom doesn't actually do the mount.  When it detects MEDIA, then it does the mount.
[03:07] <ogra> right
[03:07] <ogra> cdpinger does the same
[03:07] <sbalneav> then you keep checking media, and when the media goes away you unmount.
[03:08] <ogra> hmm, i thought thats what i do as well
[03:08] <sbalneav> so all cdpinger needs to do, i figure, is just idle on a cdrom, and when you see media, add it to /tmp/fstab, and kick off the mount
[03:09] <sbalneav> So the UDEV part shouldn't add anything to fstab, but rather, when you detect a cdrom device, launch a cdpinger for it.
[03:09] <ogra> udev doesnt touch fstab
[03:09] <ogra> not for cdroms
[03:09] <ogra> cdpinger does everything cdrom related
[03:09] <sbalneav> sure it does.  you touch any block device, yes?
[03:09] <ogra> hmm
[03:10] <sbalneav> or am I reading the rules wrong that keybuck gave us?
[03:10] <ogra> no
[03:10] <ogra> i'm wondering how to tell udev to exclude CDs here
[03:10] <sbalneav> so, isn't there a sysfs{removable} or something that could help us?
[03:10] <ogra> intrestingly udev did never pick up my cd here
[03:11] <sbalneav> I can play with that here tonight.
[03:11] <sbalneav> get some sleep, or you'll fall over.
[03:11] <sbalneav> mail me what you've got so far, and I'll work with it.
[03:11] <ogra> its currntly totally ripped apart
[03:11] <ogra> leave the cdpinger part to me ...
[03:12] <sbalneav> so?  I'm good at jigsaws!  tar it up, dude, I'm here to help!
[03:13] <ogra> no, i mean the code is unusable atm
[03:13] <ogra> its in the middle of a shuffle ...
[03:13] <ogra> i'd like to keep the overview in that one ... but i'll package the other stuff now
[03:14] <sbalneav> ok, well, I'll play around and see if I can come up with some ideas.  I was going to address pitti's concerns tonight as well.
[03:14] <ogra> i think essentially ltspfsd shouldt unmount cdroms ...
[03:14] <ogra> *shouldnt
[03:14] <sbalneav> well, that's easy enough
[03:14] <ogra> its not needed
[03:15] <sbalneav> quick modify to /sbin/ltspfs_mount script.
[03:15] <ogra> there will be no write operations unless we implemented burning over ltspfs ;)
[03:15] <ogra> which i plan to do together with audiocd support
[03:15] <ogra> in edgy+n
[03:15] <sbalneav> ah, well, that's for the next version.  By then we'll be all muekow, so it'll be easier.
[03:17] <ogra> erm, if i modify the ltspfs_mount script that wont solve the frequent unmounting
[03:18] <sbalneav> sorry, _umount
[03:18] <sbalneav> :)
[03:18] <ogra> meh, i'm really to tired
[03:18] <ogra> indeed
[03:19] <sbalneav> sleep, sleepyhead.
[03:19] <sbalneav> Let uncle scotty play for a bit :)
[03:28] <ogra> hmm
[03:28] <ogra> ltspmounter dies if the dir in media exists ?
[03:30] <ogra> ha !
[03:30] <ogra> works !!
[03:34] <ogra> gah
[03:34] <ogra> unmounting doesnt
[03:38] <LaserJock> \o/
[03:38] <ogra> hmm
[03:38] <LaserJock>  /o\
[03:39] <ogra> why does the drive ignore fcntl.ioctl(f, CDROM.CDROM_LOCKDOOR, 0) if its mounted via ltspfs
[03:39] <ogra> it works fine if i just fuse mount it
[03:41] <sbalneav> Well, the ltspfsd isn't doing anything with ioctls at all.  It simply reads files under a directory.
[03:41] <ogra> but apparently it blocks the tray
[03:44] <ogra> i'm silly
[03:47] <ogra> the /sbin/ltspfs_mount script would indeed need the ioctl now ...
[03:47] <sbalneav> Ah, so you need to mount it nolock?
[03:53] <ogra> got it, but it still doesnt unmount ...
[03:53] <ogra> heh
[03:53] <ogra> i really should go to sleep ...
[03:53] <ogra> i just forbid ltspfsd to unmount cdroms ...
[03:54] <ogra> indeed it cant unmount then :)
[04:06] <ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-localdev-scripts.tar.bz2 updated
[04:06] <ogra> (beware, the cdpinger is very noisy (but works))
[04:07] <ogra> its missing a check if the cd is really mounted before running the unmount commands ... i'll jump on that tomorrow
[04:11] <ogra> will do so :)
[04:11] <ogra> night all
[04:11] <ogra> :)
[05:21] <CrashTest> Hi all!  Can someone help me out with an OpenOffice Writer question?
[05:25] <jsgotangco> sure but you'll probably get better replies in #ubuntu
[05:27] <CrashTest> Cool, well I will ask there as well :)
[05:28] <CrashTest> I am trying to figure out how to view "Comments" that exist in Word docs.  The "Comment" menu item in "Changes" is greyed out.
[07:27] <jsgotangco> why does this thing look oversized :/
[07:36] <sbalneav> Snore.  Old man /me's getting tired.  Off to bed.
[07:36] <sbalneav> night
[08:47] <highvoltage> morning, #edubuntu
[12:15] <highvoltage> what's going on? #edubuntu is way too quiet today.
[12:27] <willvdl> shhh, we'we huntin wabbits
[12:35] <rodarvus> good morning
[12:37] <willvdl> good afternoon
[12:52] <highvoltage> morning rodarvus and willvdl
[12:57] <rodarvus> hey willvdl, highvoltage
[12:58] <RichEd> hi guys ... been lurking while I cath up on other stuff
[12:59] <rodarvus> hi RichEd
[01:00] <RichEd> rodarvus: will i get the OLPC status info from you soon ? i'd prefer to have it before we have our core meeting
[01:00] <RichEd> even a high level one to start ... we can drill down when time permits
[01:01] <rodarvus> RichEd, I wanted to have a formal plan before sending you this, but I can send a high level one in a few minutes if you want
[01:01] <rodarvus> (doing that)
[01:01] <RichEd> thanks ... we can then do a education core meeting tomorrow some time ... quick 30 mins
[01:02] <RichEd> ( not a long session like ladt week :) i know you & ogra are both busy bees
[01:02] <rodarvus> I believe I'll be able to have most (low level) stuff ready for the end of the day today
[01:02] <RichEd> last <- ladt
[01:02] <ogra> rodarvus, do you know when we have the distro meeting tomorrow ?
[01:03] <rodarvus> ogra: yes, 23:00 UTC
[01:03] <ogra> ah, k
[01:03] <ogra> thats fine then
[01:03] <RichEd> are we all on for the meeting tonight ? and will it need 2 hours ?
[01:11] <rodarvus> RichEd, I don't think the meeting tonight will last two hours, unless one of you really has a lot to say :)
[01:12] <RichEd> good ... was up 'till late with emails last night energy level is -----> low
[02:21] <ogra_> hmm
[02:25] <jsgotangco> ?
[02:32] <jsgotangco> RichEd: hi!
[02:33] <RichEd> i think hit some strange key combo in Evolution ... when i type in the email it "writes backwards" as in "sdrakcab setirw"
[02:33] <RichEd> anyoje got any ideas what i did and how i odnu ?
[02:33] <RichEd> anyone <- anyoje
[02:33] <willvdl> Your keyboard is upside-down?
[02:33] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:34] <jsgotangco> is that for real?
[02:34] <RichEd> i must have selected chinese or jewish input ...
[02:34] <rodarvus> yes, it looks like somehow you selected jewish input
[02:34] <RichEd> yep ... no lies ... XTalk is fine ... evolution must be in a different language mode ...
[02:35] <RichEd> let me open a new mail, and see if it is an individual mail or evolution wide setting ... i suspect latter
[02:35] <RichEd> fine in a new mail ... strange ...
[02:36] <willvdl> that is fascinating
[02:37] <willvdl> 1,2,3 yip, all there
[02:37] <willvdl> googling "evolution" + "backwards" + anything else opens up a whole new can of worms
[02:43] <willvdl> Is the change of CookBook to HandBook an _official_ name change yet?
[02:50] <willvdl> i.e. one that reflects online?
[02:52] <jsgotangco> honestly i do not know its status
[02:52] <jsgotangco> speaking of which
[02:52] <rodarvus> its official, I think
[02:52] <jsgotangco> did we even have a meeting today
[02:52] <ogra> jsgotangco, see the fridge :P
[02:53] <jsgotangco> ugghh i tend to get confused with these UTC things lately
[02:53] <jsgotangco> 4AM YAY
[02:54] <willvdl> 10pm. hope I'm sober
[02:54] <ogra> thats no essential requirement :)
[02:55] <jsgotangco> ogra: honestly i feel i am out of the loop lately, but trying
[02:55] <willvdl> noticing there are quite a few online cookbook references for changing....ug
[02:56] <ogra> willvdl, please talk to the cookbook team before changing any links etc ... only they know wats recent ... its a big chaos
[02:56] <willvdl> oh, was not going to stick fingers in.
[02:57] <willvdl> Just reading up on stuff and updating my bookmarks
[02:57] <ogra> ah
[02:58] <willvdl> I notice there's some duplication on www.edubuntu.org and wiki.edubuntu.org
[02:59] <willvdl> which one will be used in the future?
[03:00] <jsgotangco> well
[03:00] <RichEd> willvdl: if you look at the personal wiki page for Matt Nuzum, he has noted things like TLD site duplication, and wants to build a search that goes across all possible TLDs
[03:00] <jsgotangco> the main site runs drupal
[03:00] <RichEd> (in his new to the job task list observations)
[03:01] <jsgotangco> and the wiki is moin that encompasses all the projects
[03:01] <jsgotangco> so there's a disconnect
[03:02] <willvdl> ah, thanks
[03:09] <RichEd> ALL: I think that due to the sprint on the horizon next week, we'll keep the meeting short & sweet tonight for the sake of Oliver & Rodrigo. They can tell us what they are up to between now and the end of the Sprint. Followed by a short update from all of us. The rest of us will meet again next week, while the dev. boys are wrapped up in a coding frenzy in Chermany..
[03:09] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:09] <willvdl> okie
[03:10] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco: didn't reply to your greeting ^^^
[03:30] <jsgotangco> who is will van der leij?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:30] <willvdl> me
[03:30] <jsgotangco> i mean ignore me
[03:30] <willvdl> :)
[03:35] <ogra_> willvdl, you need to create a wikipage and list your contributions and yu need to sign the code of conduct
[03:36] <ogra_> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[03:54] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hi!
[03:55] <sbalneav> hey jsgotangco!!
[03:56] <willvdl> ogra: agreed. there are a few admin thingies I need to take care of still. Will do asap
[04:41] <jsgotangco> wow we now have 12 planets
[04:41] <ogra_> we have the universe (and the multiverse as well) :)
[04:42] <sbalneav> ogra_: Hey, dude!  How's it goin' eh?
[04:42] <ogra_> cdpinger done
[04:42] <ogra_> i'll start to rewrite th eserver side script in python later today
[04:43] <ogra_> btw, no need to bind mount cdroms
[04:43] <sbalneav> No?
[04:43] <ogra_> gnome-vfs just picks them up, regardless wher we mount them
[04:43] <sbalneav> Even in /tmp?
[04:44] <ogra_> i spent my morning with digging for the reason why i always had 2 cdroms on the desktop :)
[04:44] <ogra_> its likely a bug in gnome-vfs :)
[04:44] <ogra_> even in /tmp
[04:44] <ogra_> or wherever you want
[04:45] <sbalneav> I'd say.  I thing we should bindmount to media, if for no other reason than that's the "proper" place to put them
[04:45] <ogra_> as long as the device is called cdrom
[04:45] <ogra_> sure, but currently you'll have to live with two desktop and device entries in nautilus then
[04:46] <sbalneav> Get the new ltspmount.c last night?  I was wearing out my usb port last night plugging and unplugging memory sticks.  Seems to work pretty schweeeet.
[04:46] <ogra_> yep
[04:46] <ogra_> using it ;)
[04:47] <ogra_> with the new cdpinger and ltspfsmounter (we need new names !) you now have the right icons on your desktop as well ;)
[04:47] <ogra_> i'll look later today how to patch nautilus so we dot get the eject entry if LTSP_CLIENT is set
[04:47] <ogra_> *dont
[04:48] <ogra_> then we nly have floppies left
[04:48] <ogra_> which i dont have around here
[04:49] <jsgotangco> ogra_: well it makes any planet-based edu app in our repo obsolete :D
[04:50] <sbalneav> ogra_: I've got a couple of rigs with floppies.  let me handle that one.
[04:50] <ogra_> i think it should work out of the box, but lest see
[04:50] <ogra_> *lets
[04:51] <ogra_> udev should handle it just fine
[04:51] <ogra_> the only think i see is that we cant get the proper icon here
[04:51] <sbalneav> yeah, the device node's being created, that much I know.
[04:51] <ogra_> then its also mounted
[04:51] <ogra_> but as soon as the label is used instead of the name floppy we wont get the right icon
[04:52] <ogra_> same prob as cdroms have
[04:52] <ogra_> they need to be called cdrom in /media
[04:53] <sbalneav> It's getting pretty nice, I gotta say.
[04:53] <ogra_> yeah
[04:54] <ogra_> its the sexiest localdev implementation ever :)
[04:54] <sbalneav> Hey, is pitti working on the blocker bug?
[04:54] <ogra_> sure, he marked it "in progress"
[04:55] <ogra_> and he uses to work with german precision ;)
[04:55] <ogra_> so it should be fixed until release in any case
[04:55] <sbalneav> awesomeness.
[04:56] <sbalneav> ok, I'm gonna spend an hour finishing up on pitti's concerns, and autoconf/"gnu"ing it.
[04:56] <sbalneav> We're calling it "ltspmount", do we want another name?
[04:56] <ogra_> i'll have to gnu my stuff as well :)
[04:57] <sbalneav> ltspbindmounter?
[04:57] <ogra_> haha
[04:57] <ogra_> lbinder ?
[04:57] <ogra_> lbind ?
[04:57] <ogra_> our names start getting quite longish :)
[04:57] <ogra_> lbindmount
[04:58] <sbalneav> lbmount?
[04:58] <ogra_> that sounds good
[04:58] <sbalneav> lbmount it is.
[04:58] <sbalneav> okie, gimme a bit.
[04:58] <RichEd> sbalneav: sort of the wrong channel for this question, but I see you are more active here than in #lstp at the moment. do you know the names of the fedora & debian & red hat people coming to the fest ?
[04:59] <RichEd> i'm motivating to mark to support my invitation :)
[04:59] <sbalneav> RichEd: heh, I'm in both.  You're talking the summit at jammcq's in September?
[05:00] <sbalneav> Is that the one you're taling about?  Or right now in LWCE?
[05:00] <RichEd> no ... i've been invited as an education observer to start some relationships - i'm the new Canonical Education Programme Manager ... and the fest is a good place to meet a whole bunch of people at once
[05:01] <RichEd> jammcq's yes ... and to meet Ogra as well :) we just know each other digitally and have not met as yet
[05:01] <sbalneav> Ah, ok well....
[05:01] <jsgotangco> RichEd: you're talking to the next-in line god of LTSP!
[05:01] <jsgotangco> :D
[05:01] <sbalneav> Fedora: Warren Togami, head of Fedora
[05:02] <sbalneav> Debian: vagrantc, hangs out in #ltsp all the time
[05:02] <ogra> jsgotangco ++
[05:02] <sbalneav> Ubuntu: Ogra, teutonic Edubuntu warrior
[05:02] <ogra> heh :)
[05:03] <sbalneav> and I think jammcq's gonna see if he can shame someone from SuSE into coming.
[05:03] <sbalneav> On the LTSP side, we'll have jammcq, me, and gadi.
[05:03] <RichEd> + Eric Harrison ... Eri & Jim & Oliver yourself are the primary reason to come
[05:04] <RichEd> the rest are a bonus !
[05:04] <sbalneav> jsgotangco: next in line God?  Please, my proper title is demi-God :)
[05:04] <jsgotangco> ack!
[05:04] <sbalneav> Ah, yes, Eric as well, how could I forget.
[05:04] <RichEd> hope that's no relation to demi-Moore ;)
[05:04] <sbalneav> Granted, my child :)
[05:05] <jsgotangco> come to where?
[05:05] <RichEd> What name does vagrantc go by when he walks the real world ?
[05:06] <sbalneav> It should be awesome.
[05:06] <sbalneav> Umm, hold on lemme look
[05:06] <RichEd> And is the RedHat person a reality or a rumour at this stage ?
[05:06] <RichEd> Or is he bundled with Fedora ;)
[05:06] <sbalneav> Vagrant Cascadian
[05:06] <RichEd> tx.
[05:07] <sbalneav> Jammcq told me yesterday that it's confirmed that Warren's bought his plane ticket.
[05:07] <jsgotangco> err what's happening here?
[05:07] <jsgotangco> LTSP sprint?
[05:08] <RichEd> yes jsgotangco : LTSP hack fest
[05:08] <jsgotangco> or a bunch of gods that decided to go meet at mount olympus
[05:08] <jsgotangco> and decide the fate of the world
[05:08] <sbalneav> It is an effort to find a common ground amongst all distros, as to how LTSP should be implemented in a common way
[05:09] <sbalneav> Ubuntu's the first distro to implement the "muekow" spec we came up with, and vagrantc's moved it into debian.
[05:09] <jsgotangco> yes so i iheard
[05:10] <sbalneav> The trick will be to get the RPM world and the DEB world to agree on a common way (if possible) to do things, so that LTSP will simply be an installable package under any distro.
[05:11] <RichEd> any news on: <jammcq_laptop> and i'm hoping for a Novell guy ?
[05:11] <RichEd> then i'll stop with the questions already and leave you to get back to work :)
[05:14] <sbalneav> Ubuntu/Debian have the advantage that they've already DONE the heavy lifting, so I'm sort of hoping we can basically say "ok, lets look at Ubuntu/debian, and figure out how we do the same thing on Fedora/Redhat/Suse
[05:14] <sbalneav> RichEd: The novell thing we'll find out at some point today.
[05:14] <RichEd> schweet
[05:14] <jsgotangco> that's really really nice
[05:15] <jsgotangco> grateful :D
[05:15] <sbalneav> If we can get Fedora + Novell + Ubuntu + Debian at the same table, that's like, what, 90+% of all Linux's out there?
[05:15] <RichEd> greatful = same as grateful, just a greater appreciation level ;)
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yeah eventually, all the others will follow suit
[05:16] <jsgotangco> Fedora gets to go to RHEL
[05:16] <sbalneav> Once you get it in Fedora, that means it's just a matter of time before it's in RHEL, and it's easy to port it to Mand[rake|riva]
[05:16] <jsgotangco> Novell, well goes to themselves
[05:17] <sbalneav> Basically, I see this as the summit where the future of thin client on Linux gets decided, and moves ahead to the next phase.
[05:17] <sbalneav> I've said this lots of times, and I'll say it again:
[05:18] <sbalneav> If you're going to deploy Linux in any scale, at a business or a school:
[05:18] <sbalneav> Thin client is the ONLY way to go.
[05:18] <cbx33> ping ogra
[05:19] <sbalneav> And if there's a good, stable, capable thin client implementation included in any distro, then that blows the whole thing right to the next level of awesomeissitude.
[05:19] <jsgotangco> sbalneav: i'll be doing a presentation in 2 weeks that can alter the LTSP landscape here
[05:19] <jsgotangco> *if* it gets implemented
[05:19] <sbalneav> Down in the Phillipines?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:19] <sbalneav> Cool.  At schools?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> we're targeting GILAS
[05:19] <jsgotangco> yeup
[05:19] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:19] <sbalneav> gila mosters?  Can they type? :)
[05:20] <sbalneav> What are GILAS?
[05:20] <jsgotangco> http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=37a79420dfb7aaddcc2a048ecb43bc46
[05:21] <sbalneav> Ah, awesome.
[05:22] <sbalneav> Edubuntu slots in perfectly.
[05:22] <jsgotangco> Interestingly, MS is part of GILAS but hasn't done anything
[05:22] <jsgotangco> that's where I come in
[05:23] <jsgotangco> so yeah i think i need a haircut soon
[05:23] <cbx33> ogra, I'm going to have some time to work on scp tonight, if you get time, could you look at the code I did in my bzr branch, scp-client and scp-server run the server, then the client and see if that's what you were thinking of
[05:23] <jsgotangco> i need a *real* haircut
[05:23] <cbx33> Think I'm gonna go lead-singer-of-muse haircut
[05:23] <jsgotangco> if i dont get it cut soon itll be as long as ogras
[05:25] <RichEd> paper based education story: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060816110655719C284059
[05:26] <RichEd> "Mark's multi-million rand surprise for mayor"
[05:26] <jsgotangco> RichEd: i really need some help on the case studies :/
[05:27] <jsgotangco> "A canon was fired to kick off the ceremony. "
[05:28] <RichEd> next week, they fire a bishop, then soon a cardinal !
[05:29] <RichEd> jsgotangco: been looking around in the gaps in my time but not easy ..,. as we said ... will look some more in-between my meetings tonight
[05:30] <jsgotangco> thanks i couldn't find really good data myself
[05:41] <cbx33> ping Amaranth
[05:42] <cbx33> jsgotangco, that is quite some hair then :p
[05:43] <jsgotangco> fairly; it grows too fast
[06:15] <bddebian> Hello
[06:21] <sbalneav> ogra: heh, this thing's bloated to about 315 lines of code!! :)
[06:42] <sbalneav> ok, away for lunch for a bit.
[06:42] <sbalneav> be back in an hour.
[06:42] <sbalneav> Ogra, just sent off the (hopefully) final vierson to pitti.
[06:42] <sbalneav> cc'd you.
[06:42] <ogra> thanks !
[06:42] <sbalneav> 338 lines
[06:42] <ogra> enjoy your lunch
[06:43] <sbalneav> for a setuid wrapper
[06:43] <ogra> i'll look at it :)
Secure programming is hard</whine>
[06:43] <sbalneav> going for my walk.  bbl
[07:18] <LaserJock> rodarvus: ping???
[07:51] <sbalneav> ogra: Back from walk.
[08:04] <rodarvus> LaserJock, pong
[08:14] <mhz> hi all
[08:14] <LaserJock> rodarvus: pm :-) sorry for ping
[08:14] <mhz> is the mmeting up for 1:45 more hours?
[08:23] <willvdl> Hi folks. Proud owner of Dapper on a travelmate.
[08:54] <RichEd> hi th1a :)
[08:55] <th1a> Hi RichEd.
[08:56] <th1a> I just got a call that Steve is running behind & won't make it.
[08:56] <RichEd> how are you doing ? is it early or mid morning for you ?
[08:56] <th1a> It is 3:00 PM.
[08:56] <RichEd> okay ... no problem ... we can chat
[08:56] <RichEd> move to pvt window ... opening now
[08:56] <th1a> I might have to go pick up my wife at about 3:45, btw.  I forgot about that, but 45 minutes should be enough.
[08:58] <mhz> RichEd: hey there
[08:58] <RichEd> hi ... busy with a meeting - see you back here before edubuntu
[09:00] <mhz> okis
[09:17] <LaserJock> highvoltage!!
[09:17] <sbalneav> Zap!
[09:18] <highvoltage> hi las
[09:18] <highvoltage> i mean...
[09:18] <highvoltage> hi LaserJock!!!
[09:18] <highvoltage>  :)
[09:19] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:19] <highvoltage> how are things your side of the planet, laserjock and sbalneav?
[09:19] <LaserJock> not to bad
[09:20] <LaserJock> it's kinda starting to cool off here :-)
[09:20] <highvoltage> it seems to just get colder and colder here too :/
[09:20] <th1a> RichEd:  I seem to have lost you.
[09:20] <sbalneav> Pretty awesome thanks!
[09:20] <sbalneav> How's the new venture?
[09:21] <RichEd-1> hello ?
[09:21] <highvoltage> hi RichEd-1
[09:21] <highvoltage> sbalneav: it's tstarting to take form
[09:21] <highvoltage> it's also a *lot* of work :)
[09:22] <RichEd-1> i died for a bit ... alive again tx.
[09:22] <sbalneav> excellent!
[09:22] <highvoltage> we've been getting more staff, which i though would mean less work for me, but it turns out handing over work and explaining things is a lot of work in itself
[09:23] <sbalneav> heh
[09:23] <sbalneav> yeah, easy to fall into the "easier to do it myself than to show YOU how to do it" trap.
[09:25] <highvoltage> yep. the one one gril.. erm... woman.. we've hired is quite impressive
[09:25] <highvoltage> we just hired her to take care of admin stuff and to answer the phone
[09:25] <highvoltage> but she's fantastic, you can trust her with a lot and she'll get it done
[09:25] <willvdl> better than Amanda?
[09:26] <highvoltage> she's only been with us for a week and a half now, and she's already done fantastic work
[09:26] <highvoltage> willvdl: even better than Amanda :)
[09:26] <highvoltage> willvdl: but that doesn't mean you can steal her :)
[09:27] <willvdl> mwooohaha
[09:27] <LaserJock> wahoo, I got a nice edubuntu edgy gdm theme staring at me
[09:27] <willvdl> helps when the basics are there doesn't it?
[09:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is it green?
[09:28] <LaserJock> no
[09:28] <sbalneav> ogra: Pingus
[09:28] <LaserJock> it's Ubuntuish looking with a nice edubuntu logo on it
[09:29] <LaserJock> uggg, now that I loged in I got green
[09:29] <mhz> :(
[09:29] <LaserJock> that's kinda nasty
[09:29] <LaserJock> the gdm theme is all nice brown, orange, and red
[09:29] <LaserJock> then the gnome splash is green
[09:30] <highvoltage> heh
[09:30] <highvoltage> yeah, well...
[09:30] <LaserJock> then the desktop is the chalkboard
[09:30] <LaserJock> which really isn't as bad as it could be
[09:30] <LaserJock> but when you log in there is that time before the gnome splash starts where it just has a solid color
[09:30] <highvoltage> ogra refered to it as being almost as bad as staring to the berlin wall
[09:31] <highvoltage> at least edgy should be much nicer, with lisa onboard and all
[09:31] <LaserJock> so the background goes form Ubuntu brown to green all of a sudden
[09:31] <LaserJock> good thing I wasn't eating ;-)
[09:31] <highvoltage> mhz: howdy
[09:31] <willvdl> the ubuntu brown on my screen looks a bit more like purple
[09:32] <LaserJock> purple? kde is now purple
[09:32] <mhz> there is this teacher who prefers the Ubuntu bootsplash and the Ubuntu GDM defaults, instead the Edubuntu ones. He installed ubuntu-desktop (for such purpose), rebooted and still sees Edubuntu stuff. how is it possible to achieve what he wants?
[09:32] <mhz> highvoltage: hi Mr. Volts
[09:33] <highvoltage> mhz: you have to apply update-alternatives to the bootsplash theme...erm... usplash theme, gdm theme, and desktop theme
[09:33] <highvoltage> LaserJock: or is there an easier way?
[09:34] <LaserJock> no, I think update-alternatives
[09:34] <mhz> cool!
[09:34] <mhz> command lines!!
[09:34] <LaserJock> for usplash
[09:34] <LaserJock> anyway
[09:35] <LaserJock> people want to do a themeing tool that would be a nice clickable GUI to switch
[09:35] <LaserJock> since it's pretty common
[09:35] <highvoltage> souds like a job for cbx33 :)
[09:35] <Petaris> is there a mas user creatation tool
[09:35] <highvoltage> a general theme tool would actually be nice
[09:36] <Petaris> something that creates users based on certain parameters?
[09:36] <highvoltage> yeah, but that doesn't do anything for the gdm or usplash themes
[09:36] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, he said he wanted to work on it, but I think right now he is on scp
[09:36] <highvoltage> oh, cool.
[09:41] <highvoltage> ya
[09:41] <highvoltage> *sees
[09:43] <LaserJock> yeah?
[09:43] <highvoltage> yeah, willvdl is applying for membership
[09:46] <willvdl> but need to do some work first...
[09:46] <LaserJock> cool
[09:47] <highvoltage> i think that your tuxlab work should count
[09:50] <highvoltage> ogra: EdubuntuMeetingAgenda is a locked page and a bit out of date
[09:51] <highvoltage> d'oh! i wasn't logged in
[09:54] <highvoltage> hey cb
[09:54] <cbx33> hi highvoltage
[09:54] <highvoltage> hi cbx33
[09:54] <cbx33> not too late am I?
[09:55] <cbx33> just saw "Cars"
[09:55] <cbx33> very funny
[09:55] <highvoltage> nope, meeting starts in about 5 minutews
[09:55] <cbx33> exshellent
[09:55] <highvoltage> lag-- :)
[09:55] <sbalneav> cool.
[09:55] <sbalneav> I'm in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:55] <sbalneav> I can hang around for 3/4 hour
[09:56] <sbalneav> I'm kind of "adopted ubuntu", ain't I? :)
[09:56] <highvoltage> heh :)
[09:56] <cbx33> heheh yup sbalneav :D
[09:56] <ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meetig in 4 minutes *********
[09:56] <ogra> *#ubuntu-meeting
[09:57] <RichEd> re: "highvoltage ses he'll get a chance to cheerlead again"
[09:57] <cbx33> eeeewww RichEd now I have the image too
[09:57] <cbx33> take it back take it back
[09:58] <highvoltage> that's nothing...
[09:58] <RichEd> rosy cheeks and all : uuuurgh ...
[09:58] <highvoltage> what about poor LaserJock that had to share a room with me for an entire week!
[09:58] <cbx33> eeeeeeeek
[09:58] <cbx33> I bet he helped you make the dress didn't he :p
[09:58] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:58] <LaserJock> it wasn't so bad
[09:58] <ogra> ************ REMINDER Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes *********
[09:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you snored a lot
[09:59] <LaserJock> everybody stayed up late anyway
[09:59] <cbx33> ogra, you doing 2^n powers this week?
[09:59] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, that's what my wife says too
[10:00] <cbx33> heheh
[10:00] <ogra> ************ Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starts now *********
[10:04] <juliux> !seen ogra
[10:04] <ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
[10:05] <LaserJock> juliux: meeting time
[10:05] <juliux> LaserJock, i see ;)
[10:32] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PoweredBy   <- Powered by Edubuntu templates for those interested in creating stickers
[10:32] <carwash> Hi, how are my options of doing an install with thick or half thick (harddrive less) devices?
[10:34] <sbalneav> carwash: Not sure what you mean?  Thin clients you mean?
[10:36] <carwash> I have a lab of new computers that i want to put edubuntu on. They are more than powerfull enough to run as thick clients (standalon), but to save time and power i wish to either run them harddrive-less "half-thick".
[10:38] <highvoltage> carwash: e-mail me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:39] <highvoltage> i'm going to bed now
[10:39] <highvoltage> but two weeks ago i implemented a lab like that
[10:39] <highvoltage> i could send you a howto, it's not that complicated
[10:39] <carwash> cool, thanks I would love that
[10:39] <highvoltage> (depending on your security requirements)
[10:39] <carwash> very lax ;)
[10:40] <highvoltage> ok
[10:40] <highvoltage> goodnight everyone, i really can't stay awake anymore, i'll catch up with cbx33 's logs tomorrow
[10:40] <LaserJock> cya highvoltage
[10:41] <cbx33> hehehehe
[10:41] <cbx33> thank highvoltage
[10:41] <carwash> gnight
[10:42] <highvoltage> gnight!
[10:59] <carwash> 3D/join #ubuntu
[10:59] <carwash> wops
[11:48] <rodarvus> I need to leave for a while, family has arrived home
[11:48] <rodarvus> will be back later
[11:51] <LaserJock> ogra: got a minute?
[11:53] <cbx33> yes I know I'm back
[11:53] <cbx33> too hungry to sleep
[11:53] <cbx33> so I gotta eat something first
[11:54] <cbx33> hi pygi
[11:54] <LaserJock> cbx33: tsk tsk
[11:54] <cbx33> heheh
[11:54] <pygi> hey cbx33
[12:00] <RichEd> cbx33: are those regular munchies ;) or fuelled ones ?
[12:00] <cbx33> heheh
[12:00] <cbx33> cheese and bacon pasty
[12:00] <cbx33> skipped a meal
[12:00] <cbx33> VERY hungry
[12:01] <cbx33> ha ha ha :p
[12:07] <RichEd> night all ... james bond time on my desktop 00:07
[12:08] <cbx33> nn RichEd
[12:09] <cbx33> ping ogra


[10:35] <Doble_> hi folks
[10:35] <Doble_> can anyone point me in the right direction regarding filesystems? I'm building a home NAS/media center, and I'm trying to decide if I want to use LVM or ZFS or something similar.
[11:06] <ikt> aren't lvm and zfz two different things?
[11:17] <Doble_> yeah, thats why i was trying to make up my mind between them
[11:17] <Doble_> i think i'm going to go with https://romanrm.net/mhddfs
[11:17] <Doble_> seems to do what i'm looking for


[15:44] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The liquiorix kernel just saved my bacon. Current kernel in the Ubuntu repos for mantic is having difficulty with USB devices and, in particular, is causing my X-touch to cause any and all implementation of JACK to freeze.
[15:45] <Eickmeyer> (there's a kernel in proposed that's supposed to fix all that)
[15:48] <Eickmeyer> bhechinger: https://launchpad.net/bugs/2037193 (check the name, should look familiar) 🤦
[15:48] -ubottu:#ubuntustudio-devel- Launchpad bug 2037193 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity package UbuntuStudio 23.10 Beta Installation Failure" [Undecided, Invalid]
[19:33] <bhechinger> Eickmeyer: Here we go again
[19:33] <Eickmeyer> bhechinger: I swear, he's either delusional or narcissistic.
[19:39] <bhechinger> He's certainly full of himself.
[19:44] <Eickmeyer> The red flags I saw are 1) The checksums don't match what he's downloaded, yet he blames the checksums on the site. 2) It's clear that his curl operation didn't finish. 3) He obviously didn't bother to check what he wrote to media.


[12:26] <mjg59> jbailey: It should still ask us in case the user doesn't have usplash
[12:26] <mjg59> Or has removed the "splash" argument
[12:28] <jbailey> Why, though?
[12:29] <jbailey> Without fbcon, it's not useful for the console.
[01:05] <BenC> I think I have the solution for our kernel post-breezy, with regards to git
[01:15] <mjg59> jbailey: If it's not loading fbcon, it ought to be
[01:36] <BenC> Subject: linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-9.19_source.changes ACCEPTED
[04:38] <jbailey> mjg59: Right, and it's not.  It's just vesafb and capabilities.
[04:39] <jbailey> mjg59: Fabio mentioned that he didn't know why those were in there, just that they were.  Given that usplash loads vesafb or vga16fb if it needs to, I'm inclined to just move the capabilities loading hint out of the kernel and into initramfs.
[04:40] <jbailey> I know that ppc kernels generally have the framebuffer built in.  Is that generally the right thing, or should there be some initramfs magic that loads the framebuffers right away and does something to autodetect what it can (loading all the per-arch framebuffers or something
[04:40] <jbailey> All obviously post-breezy. =)
[04:45] <desrt> BenC; nooo!!
[04:45] <desrt> BenC; first you must enable hugepages :)
[05:01] <jbailey> desrt: It's okay.  He's a *kernel hacker*
[05:01] <jbailey> Linus set a fine tradition that frozen is what you get out of a slurpy machine. ;)
[05:54] <desrt> :)
[05:54] <desrt> btw.  fix inotify.h :)
[06:04] <jbailey> yeah yeah yeah.
[06:09] <jbailey> Got a current patch for me? =)
[06:15] <desrt> ya.  it's on bugzilla
[06:15] <desrt> well... not a 'patch' per se
[06:16] <desrt> but the one-line that needs to be added
[06:16] <desrt> you actually want it in patch form?
[06:26] <desrt> jbailey; k.  updated patch uploaded here: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14456
[06:26] <desrt> it's perfectly in sync with the one in the kernel now with the exception that all the #ifdef KERNEL business is removed (which you did)
[06:53] <jbailey> Cool, thanks.
[06:53] <jbailey> Yeah the upstream lkh that we uses gets rid of all of that.
[06:53] <jbailey> And makes usre all the rest of the types are trivially usable from userspace.
[06:53] <jbailey> Sleep now, will hack in the morning. =)
[06:54] <jbailey> (Best to upload that lkh when I'm sober.  thankyou very much for the patch)
[06:57] <fabbione> BenC: didn't you back out the security patch???
[06:57] <fabbione> ah never mind
[08:43] <BenC> fabbione: it's removed from 00list
[07:06] <joh> Hello, I'm running ubuntu on a server which I had to restart the ugly way by pulling the plug because of a crash. Now when I boot the machine, I discover some files (about 10) located in /bin /sbin /usr/bin and /usr/sbin which all have their owner changed to uid 112 and gid 114. Now I'm unable to change their permissions back to root (Operation not permitted). Actually, I'm unable to change *any* file in those 4 directories. After running an fsck,
[07:08] <fabbione> joh: hmmmm
[07:08] <fabbione> i would try to check for chattr -i
[07:08] <mjg59> Yeah, it's likely that they've ended up immutable
[07:09] <fabbione> if you still can't change them, try to run another e2fsck on it
[07:09] <fabbione> probably there is still corruption
[07:11] <joh> fabbione: hmmmm
[07:11] <joh> fabbione: chattr -i didn't help either...
[07:12] <fabbione> joh: switch to init s and umount /usr
[07:12] <fabbione> e2fsck -fF /dev/whatever
[07:12] <fabbione> and see if it helps
[07:13] <joh> fabbione: ok, some of the files are immutable actually...
[07:13] <joh> fabbione: but removing the flag doesn't help
[07:14] <joh> fabbione: they have all the sia flags set
[07:14] <fabbione> joh: please so as i said and check for extra corruption first
[07:14] <fabbione> what fs is that?
[07:14] <joh> fabbione: ext3
[07:15] <joh> (this is the root filesystem, so I cannot umount it atm :P I can check the files in /usr though)
[07:15] <fabbione> switch to single user and mount it ro
[07:15] <fabbione> i have to go now
[07:15] <fabbione> bbl
[07:15] <joh> ok, thanks
[07:38] <joh> fabbione: thanks, it worked when I removed the sia attributes from them. both fscks run successfully (no errors as far as I could see)...
[07:38] <fabbione> joh: no problem
[07:40] <joh> fabbione: any idea what could've caused this, btw?
[07:41] <fabbione> joh: it depends from a billion things
[07:41] <fabbione> first, do you know why the machine crashed?
[07:41] <joh> fabbione: ok? :P the cause of the crash was out of memory I think...
[07:41] <fabbione> also.. what does the machine run?
[07:41] <joh> fabbione: probably a leak in hula
[07:42] <fabbione> does the machine do a lot of IO?
[07:42] <joh> fabbione: apache, hula, mysql, pgsql, ssh, php, ...
[07:42] <fabbione> so yeah
[07:43] <fabbione> it's possible that it was doing I/O while you unplugged the power
[07:43] <fabbione> and crap has been written to disk
[07:43] <fabbione> that's simplest explanation i can find
[07:43] <joh> fabbione: well, the system wasn't responsive at all when it crashed.
[07:43] <fabbione> the worst one is that you have been hacked and that the leak and corruption was caused by an attacker attempt to gain root
[07:43] <joh> fabbione: i.e. I could change VTs but not run any process...
[07:44] <fabbione> joh: that doesn't mean much.. it could have been busy doing I/O
[07:44] <fabbione> now i give you a few tips
[07:44] <joh> fabbione: ok :)
[07:44] <fabbione> when you install servers. it's always a good idea to use different partitions
[07:44] <fabbione> like /usr /var /tmp /home on separate partitions
[07:44] <fabbione> even LVM would do
[07:45] <joh> they are
[07:45] <fabbione> ok
[07:45] <fabbione> well i understood differently befor
[07:45] <fabbione> e
[07:45] <joh> well, what I meant that was that the files in /bin and /sbin were on the root filesystem.
[07:45] <fabbione> and if your server provides a lot of different services
[07:45] <joh> *root partition
[07:46] <fabbione> it's worth a try to make some partitions ro
[07:46] <fabbione> like /usr
[07:46] <fabbione> there is no need to write there
[07:46] <joh> unless I install some packages :P
[07:46] <fabbione> root is a bit too complicate...
[07:46] <joh> yeah
[07:46] <fabbione> of cours
[07:46] <fabbione> but than you can always mount/remount
[07:46] <joh> yeah
[07:46] <joh> Ok, thanks again, I have to go now :)
[07:47] <fabbione> np


[16:14] <OvenWerks> matrix bridge seems to be live
[16:17] <OvenWerks> in any case *[m] nicks are showing up in #ardour
[16:28] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I just got the notification. Officiall, it's still in testing, so I'll only enable it here for now.
[16:30] <Eickmeyer> I'm waiting for the bot to message me.
[16:41] <kryten> Eickmeyer: You aren't set +R/+g by chance, are you?
[16:41] <Eickmeyer> kryten: I might be, lemme se...
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> kryten: I'm +RZi.
[16:42] <kryten> Yep!
[16:43] <Eickmeyer> What do I need to do to myself? XD
[16:43] <kryten> "/mode Eickmeyer -R"
[16:43] <Eickmeyer> Duh.
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> *sigh* 500 error: request already sent. >_<
[16:45] <kryten> lol
[16:45] <Eickmeyer> If I wait a little while maybe it'll timeout.
[16:45] <kryten> Yeah.
[16:47] <Eickmeyer> Although, replying in the blind seemed to work.
[16:48] <Eickmeyer> BOOM Baby!
[16:49] -enick_401:#ubuntustudio-devel- There are more than 2 users in this admin room
[16:49] -enick_401:#ubuntustudio-devel- Could not join #kubuntu-offtopic on 'chat.freenode.net': err_inviteonlychan
[16:52] -enick_401:#ubuntustudio-devel- There are more than 2 users in this admin room
[16:52] <eickmeyer[m]> Test


[05:07] <hot_wheelz> Hi guys
[05:16] <ajcullen> Hey
[09:50] <head_victim> sagaci: agenda item added - the brisbane installfest
[09:53] <head_victim> Also tweeted/dented
[09:54] <sagaci> ok
[11:27] <ajcullen> Hey sagaci
[11:27] <sagaci> hi ajcullen
[11:27] <ajcullen> How are you?
[11:30] <ajcullen> Back lol
[11:31] <sagaci> getting tired but then again, it's kinda later
[11:31] <sagaci> late
[11:31] <ajcullen> Yer pulling an all nighter tonight
[11:32] <sagaci> what's the occasion?
[11:33] <ajcullen> Just a lab party
[11:33] <ajcullen> Lan
[11:33] <ajcullen> Need to coordinate massive Lan cod
[11:35] <ajcullen> Just downloading everything I need to for clean windows
[11:47] <ajcullen> Nearly there
[11:53] <ajcullen> Sagaci...  Going to do a 50/50 split
[11:59] <sagaci> ok as long as your windows partition still has a decent size left
[11:59] <ajcullen> 150 each
[11:59] <sagaci> that's fine
[11:59] <ajcullen> Taking ages to query shrink space,
[12:03] <ajcullen> Shrinking
[12:05] <ajcullen> Cool 149 windows and 149 unallocated
[12:06] <sagaci> yep so reboot into an ubuntu live environment
[12:07] <ajcullen> Got to reinstall windows first?
[12:08] <sagaci> well I'd reinstall windows first
[12:08] <sagaci> and then reshrink
[12:08] <sagaci> but then again you could probably just reinstall it over the windows partition and leave unallocated as it is
[12:10] <ajcullen> That's what I think the game plan was
[12:10] <sagaci> sounds like a good game
[12:10] <ajcullen> Tis
[12:13] <sagaci> November team report needs to be done
[12:18] <ajcullen> Trying to avoid system partition
[12:36] <ajcullen> Nearly done
[12:42] <ajcullen> Finalizing
[12:50] <ajcullen> Far out... I have 101mb of unallocated space separate from the other
[12:50] <sagaci> meh
[13:17] <ajcullen> Okay fixed
[13:17] <ajcullen> Next step
[13:20] <sagaci> so boot into ubuntu
[13:20] <sagaci> I have to go out for a while
[13:21] <ajcullen> Okay... Should I just do a simple install of ubuntu?
[16:12] <ikt> 4 days to 'get' argparse
[16:12] <ikt> something considered easy :/


[08:42]  * Saviq needs to sleep more... had a "nightmare" about Ubuntu Phone going to become just a mobile browser (with all the UI served remotely)...
[08:45] <tsdgeos> lol
[08:45] <tsdgeos> yeah you need more sleep
[09:01]  * Saviq hears sizzling... ah, it's the cat found some sun... now waiting for the smell of something burning...
[09:07] <mzanetti> :D
[09:10] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so, we got the "expand music" postEvent crash back, and seems to be easier to trigger
[09:10] <Saviq> bug #1262711
[09:10] <tsdgeos> :/
[09:10] <Saviq> I got some symbols (last comment), but they're not helpful much I'd say
[09:10] <Saviq> it's definitely related to the album art provider
[09:11] <Saviq> trying to find out whether it happens on desktop, too
[09:12] <Saviq> but seeing as it's a race, I doubt it...
[09:19] <dednick> anyone know why phablet-flash isn't working at the mo?
[09:22] <Saviq> dednick, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg06981.html
[09:22] <dednick> Saviq: ah. yeah i guess that would be it
[09:22] <Saviq> :)
[09:23] <dednick> ta
[11:59] <Saviq> mhr3, do you have apps in new click scope?
[12:00] <mhr3> saviq, i did yesterday
[12:00] <mhr3> and we didn't land click since afaik
[12:01] <Saviq> hmm /me wonders if my locale affects it
[12:01] <mhr3> saviq, anything in scope-registry.log?
[12:02] <Saviq> hmm
[12:02] <Saviq> ScopeBase::run(): unity::LogicException: Error checking for key existence (/home/phablet/.local/share/applications
[12:02] <mhr3> hmm indeed
[12:03] <mhr3> alecu, ^?
[12:03] <Saviq> it was an empty .desktop file
[12:03] <mhr3> saviq, hm?
[12:03] <Saviq> mhr3, broken file
[12:03] <Saviq> mhr3, empty
[12:03] <mhr3> who tried to read it?
[12:03] <Saviq> mhr3, scope did
[12:04] <mhr3> how come it threw unity::logicexception?
[12:04] <mhr3> nvm me, /me digs
[12:08] <Saviq> mhr3, alecu yeah, broken .desktop files make the scope die
[12:09] <mhr3> ah they actually use our iniparser
[12:09] <mhr3> ok then
[12:09] <mhr3> should have made it private :P
[12:10] <Saviq> LOL
[12:38] <mhr3> tsdgeos, btw fix for the centered "Apps" header is sitll coming to new-scopes?
[12:38] <tsdgeos> mhr3: didn't work on that
[12:38] <mhr3> plan to?
[12:38] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ↑ ?
[12:39] <Saviq> mhr3, would rather get the new header in
[12:39] <Saviq> mhr3, it's a dying component
[12:40] <mhr3> saviq, it's just... very visible, always there after reboot
[12:40] <mhr3> first thing designers noticed btw :)
[12:41] <Saviq> mhr3, maybe they'll get the new header designed quicker ;) especially for in-dash interaction
[12:41] <mhr3> your call
[12:41] <Saviq> mhr3, I know, I'd like to fix it, too
[12:41] <Saviq> mhr3, I just don't want to spend a day fighting with a dying component that's proved difficult over and over again
[13:06] <alecu> Saviq: so, how did you get an empty .desktop, btw?
[13:07] <Saviq> alecu, interrupted test fixture
[13:07] <Saviq> or some such
[13:08] <alecu> ah, sounds right. Ok, I'll add some checks so it fails gracefully on parse errors there
[13:17] <Saviq> /we need to do some optimizing for new scopes... ;?
[13:41] <elopio> ping tsdgeos. I have the new scopes in my phone now. Do you need some more help with the autopilot tests?
[13:48] <tsdgeos> elopio: can you confirm unity8.shell.tests.test_emulators.GenericScopeViewEmulatorTestCase.test_open_preview fails?
[13:48] <tsdgeos> i think it's a LVWPH but if you can have a quick look
[13:48] <tsdgeos> it'd help
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it doesn't fail here
[13:53] <tsdgeos> Saviq: on the phone?
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, been running it the whole morning today
[13:53] <tsdgeos> interesting
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, on phone, yes
[13:53] <tsdgeos> was failing yesterday for me :/
[13:54] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I get some random failures due a crash I'm trying to pin, but nothing more
[13:54] <tsdgeos> ok
[13:54] <Saviq> and apparently a lockup on exit sometimes
[13:56] <Saviq> oh, crash on exit, too
[14:03] <elopio> tsdgeos: I can, give me soem minutes.
[14:06] <mhr3> Saviq, yes to optimizing, scrolling is pretty bad with new-scopes
[14:07] <mhr3> Saviq, and once michi is back we'll hopefully stop hogging the ui thread :)
[14:08] <mhr3> but you didn't even notice that, did you? :P
[14:09] <Saviq> mhr3, just a little bit
[14:09] <mzanetti> :D
[14:09] <Saviq> mhr3, but yeah, the Card approach is nice and all... but results in unused objects all over the place
[14:09] <mzanetti> Saviq: any plan on caching app icons yet? I think that would add a lot to perceived performance
[14:10] <Saviq> mzanetti, cache: true, or something more elaborate like bug #1224998
[14:10] <mzanetti> the latter
[14:11] <Saviq> mzanetti, SDK topic
[14:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, so yeah, there is a plan (that I wrote in the bug), but that's about it
[14:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, and I really don't think *we* should be doing anything about it
[14:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, it needs to be part of the platform - replacing the default image provider
[14:13] <Saviq> mzanetti, but anyway we have cache: true in the Card
[14:13] <Saviq> probably should have added it to the CardHeader. too
[14:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, but it's worse than that, we need to simplify the delegates as much as possible
[14:14] <Saviq> because now, for each icon + title, we instantiate like a dozen other invisible objects
[14:15] <mzanetti> yeah...
[14:21] <mzanetti> man... I think I need to reinstall my machine. its broken all over the place since the last big upgrade
[14:21] <mzanetti> now apps are frozen for 5 seconds when getting focus
[14:26] <elopio> tsdgeos: what branch are you using to run the tests?
[14:26] <tsdgeos> elopio: new-scopes-clean-to-trunk
[14:27]  * MacSlow can't connect to the mumble-server
[14:28] <mzanetti> MacSlow: huh? but you do appear in our channel
[14:29] <MacSlow> mzanetti, mumble window is greyed out and it's eating 100% of one cpu-core... no clue what's going on
[14:29] <mzanetti> ah
[14:31]  * MacSlow tries to reboot :/
[14:43] <mhr3> saviq, any way to make it so that the card objects would be owned by cpp code?
[14:45] <elopio> tsdgeos: it fails with the unity8 installed from the landing013 PPA. I'm trying now running it from the same branch.
[14:46] <Saviq> mhr3, not really
[14:46] <Saviq> mhr3, the view needs to create/destroy them as they come into / out of view
[14:46] <Saviq> mhr3, well, in that sense they are, but by all the *Views
[14:48] <mhr3> saviq, well if gc is the problem, then we should just try to hide all the small objects into a one big :)
[14:48] <Saviq> mhr3, no, there's no gc
[14:48] <Saviq> mhr3, they're destroyed
[14:48] <Saviq> mhr3, it's just that when they're recreated again when coming on screen
[14:48] <Saviq> mhr3, all the invisible ones get created (in QML world), too
[14:49] <Saviq> mhr3, even if not passed to the GPU
[14:49] <Saviq> first thing to do would be to wrap all the bigger pieces in Loaders
[14:49] <Saviq> and only load them when we know they'd be used
[14:50] <Saviq> second would be to create a library (remember? a library?) of Cards that would be selected based on what's mapped and such
[14:50] <Saviq> dandrader, hey, you said in your video you did something to Mir (patch?) that prevented it from stopping the rendering for unfocused surfaces
[14:51] <Saviq> dandrader, icanhasthat for testing a theory?
[14:51] <dandrader> Saviq, I did in in the "unity-mir"/QPA code
[14:51] <Saviq> dandrader, works for me
[14:52] <dandrader> Saviq, so it just doesn't call application->setState(Suspend)
[14:53] <Saviq> dandrader, ok, so that's different :?
[14:53]  * Saviq needs mir to not stop rendering when screen off
[14:59] <elopio> tsdgeos: Ran 1 test in 49.855s
[14:59] <elopio> OK
[14:59] <tsdgeos> elopio: ok, must be me, Saviq was saying it also works for him
[14:59] <elopio> but it does some weird things. I don't see the preview being opened. Maybe it's just too fast, I'll debug.
[15:00] <tsdgeos> ok
[16:02] <kgunn> Saviq: can you do a quick swing through
[16:02] <kgunn> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1A1wmF92jlwupi1rPspEKUuuJYNWvN3Io4vjqxoofxy8/edit
[16:03] <Saviq> kgunn, ah!
[16:07] <Saviq> kgunn, done
[16:07] <kgunn> ta
[16:30] <mzanetti> unbelievable... placing the N4 on my keyboard makes my notebook fall asleep
[16:31] <tsdgeos> :D
[16:31] <mzanetti> reminds me of the N900 which injected keypresses when placed on a keyboard cable
[16:32] <Cimi> Saviq, what's your feeling about this? https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/zoomImage/+merge/207941
[16:39] <Saviq> Cimi, other than it could potentially go into SDK, from a quick glance looks tested and all
[16:39] <Saviq> Cimi, didn't look at it more, why?
[16:39] <Cimi> Saviq, I don't know about this algorithm, those 0.98 scaling values
[16:40] <Saviq> Cimi, did Paul answer your question on that?
[16:40] <Cimi> Saviq, paul didn't write this code, he took it somewhere from meego
[16:40] <Saviq> uh oh
[16:40] <Saviq> that sounds like licensing issues
[16:40] <Cimi> indeed
[16:40] <Cimi> don't know what he modified or if it was only 'inspiration'
[16:42] <Saviq> Cimi, please add these concerns as comments to the MP
[16:42] <Saviq> Cimi, and ask Paul to reply there
[16:43] <kgunn> Cimi: good catch Cimi
[16:43]  * Saviq just noticed the flights next week in his calendar... London, here I come! :P
[16:43] <Cimi> Saviq, are you here next week?
[16:44] <Saviq> Cimi, 31st
[16:44] <Saviq> Cimi, and then 6th
[16:44] <kgunn> Saviq: i'm getting like seriously worried about you, malta and a non-fish food selection
[16:44] <Cimi> what?
[16:44] <Cimi> not fish?
[16:44] <Saviq> kgunn, <whatever-sound-a-whip-does>
[16:46] <elopio> Saviq, kgunn: can you please take a look at this document?
[16:46] <elopio> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1yB6myUu4JzkI315ZNE3hBgWGIQVpcdpJWX-bb3q7sr0/edit#heading=h.xbdfutgfq4lh
[16:47] <elopio> those are the features that we think should be tested on every new unity release. If you have comments or doubts, you can ping me or rhuddie.
[16:49] <Saviq> elopio, whoa, nice doc, will definitely read through
[16:51] <elopio> Saviq: rhuddie does magic with test plans. I'm a mess, so it's nice thanks to him :)
[16:52] <rhuddie> elopio, saviq hopefully it's a good starting point... please feel free to add any comments :)
[16:53] <Saviq> for defs
[16:58] <Saviq> mterry, kgunn, so you say there is ABI breakage in the branch / mir devel?
[16:59] <Cimi> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/zoomImage/+merge/207941/comments/500681
[17:00] <Saviq> whoa, 6pm crept up on me
[17:07] <Saviq> Cimi, k
[17:13] <Saviq> ok, /me kicks mir-alone build, then
[17:38] <YokoZar> Can I tag this one bitesize? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1103833
[17:44] <mhr3> Saviq, btw design acked https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/new-scopes-clean-to-trunk/+merge/209459
[17:44] <mhr3> time to update the desc ;)
[17:44] <mhr3> and f..ing merge it! :P
[17:46] <Saviq> mhr3, tell that to Qt 5.2 ;P
[17:48] <Saviq> kgunn, y u aborted?
[17:48] <kgunn> Saviq: cause it wasn't gonna work
[17:49] <kgunn> Saviq: reconfig and rekick
[17:49] <Saviq> kgunn, ah, good reason
[17:49] <kgunn> ....it won't let me
[17:49] <kgunn> is it tied to your name to reconfig ?
[17:49] <Saviq> kgunn, might be
[17:49] <kgunn> Saviq: sorry...about that. i should've told you
[17:49] <Saviq> kgunn, no worries
[17:50] <Saviq> kgunn, why wouldn't it work?
[17:50] <kgunn> but i added the mp's that should make mir happy
[17:50] <Saviq> ERROR:root:session-manager-touch was not in the initial list of components for that silo. You can't reconfigure the silo yourself. Please ask the landing team to reconfigure it for you.
[17:50] <kgunn> mir version 0.1.8 already on dev branch
[17:50] <Saviq> kgunn, right
[17:50] <kgunn> Saviq: huh....i thot we could do that
[17:50] <Saviq> kgunn, not if the components change
[17:50] <Saviq> kgunn, or well, not if you add some
[17:51] <Saviq> kgunn, so yeah, my name shouldn't matter I think
[17:51] <Saviq> kgunn, AlbertA, btw, confirmed
[17:51] <Saviq> next song plays with AlbertA's patch
[17:51] <Saviq> not good
[17:51]  * Saviq updates bug
[17:52] <kgunn> Saviq still needs a reason to rebuild
[17:52] <Saviq> kgunn, hm?
[17:53] <kgunn> Saviq: so i just added the 0.1.8 mp's like i would normally...its all good...don't worry
[17:53] <kgunn> famous last words
[17:53] <kgunn> rebuild for unity-mir/papi
[17:53] <kgunn> gotta run, be back in an hour
[18:32] <dandrader> finally we have the vkb at our compositing mercy :P http://ubuntuone.com/5lUS2QMOKej1rNPDf5n9hy
[18:34] <mhr3> \o/
[18:50] <greyback> dandrader: yay! I think we should leave it like tat :P
[18:51] <dandrader> greyback, it's a dream coming true. I can just remove the tons of hacks we have around the OSK subject and simply position it like any other Item in the unity8 scene!
[18:51] <greyback> dandrader: yep, sooo much nicer
[18:52] <greyback> dandrader: I want it to slide up/down!
[18:52] <greyback> not just appear, which I always hated
[18:52] <dandrader> greyback, yeah, sure it will
[18:58]  * greyback away
[20:45] <Saviq> greyback, dandrader, I'm not sure we want to be too smart in the shell about how the OSK behaves
[20:45] <Saviq> greyback, dandrader, sliding up should be handled by the OSK itself
[20:45] <Saviq> we need to think about 3rd party input methods
[20:46] <Saviq> IMO the vkb should be a rather freeform window (not necessarily even bottom-attached)
[20:48] <Saviq> dandrader, one thing we do need to do, though, is treat the vkb as part of the app surface, so that it appears together with the app in the spread and all the animations
[20:49] <dandrader> Saviq, are the designs like that?
[20:49] <Saviq> problem ↑ here is that we need a vkb screenshot (buffer?) per-app, and preserve state between apps (that's rather outside of our jurisdiction, though)
[20:50] <Saviq> dandrader, yeah, otherwise apps would need to reflow or be blank at the bottom or whatnot
[20:50] <Saviq> dandrader, app in the spread needs to be exactly as you left it, and how it will come back, part of that is the vkb
[20:51] <Saviq> dandrader, so we might needs to consider vkb actually supplying a surface per app
[20:52] <dandrader> this is not sounding good
[20:56] <Saviq> dandrader, well, it doesn't have to be bad, we just need to think of a good way to do this
[20:57] <Saviq> dandrader, we need something similar for trusted sessions, like with the content hub, for example
[20:57] <dandrader> Saviq, we have to find the right balance between leaving things loose and abstract to let 3rd parties go crazy on input method plugins and a pleasing, smooth, user experience
[20:58] <Saviq> you need to be able to swipe away an app that is in the middle of a content sharing session, and it needs to be rendered into the same app, at some point - maybe even all three - app, content hub and the sharing app, as those will be three distinct surfaces composited together
[20:59] <dandrader> Saviq, sacrificing the end user experience in favor of hypothetical use cases (a 3rd party input method that might do this and that) is a bad thing to do IMO
[20:59] <Saviq> dandrader, sure, but I'm afraid input methods are the things that go rather crazy
[20:59] <Saviq> dandrader, we don't need to sacrifice, we might just need to delegate
[20:59] <dandrader> Saviq, have you seem them going crazy on other platforms?
[21:00] <Saviq> dandrader, depends on what is "going crazy", but there's plenty of weird input methods that are out there, and we need to strive not to lock any one of them out
[21:00] <Saviq> dandrader, good thing is, though, it's just like an app - if it'll be bad, people will rate it down and uninstall it
[21:00] <dandrader> Saviq, I need concrete examples
[21:00] <Saviq> dandrader, so I don't think this is a really big issue UX wise
[21:01] <Saviq> dandrader, I don't have them, but I'm simple, I use a US layout keyboard
[21:01] <dandrader> Saviq, ok, so we are in the hypothetical ground here
[21:02] <Saviq> dandrader, http://hubpages.com/hub/Android-Softkeyboard-Shootout-which-input-method-should-you-use
[21:04] <Saviq> dandrader, so yeah, ultimately they all seem to be a bottom-anchored rectangle
[21:05] <dandrader> jeez, the narrator here is a cheap text-to-speech software: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHj2ePxxMo0
[21:05] <Saviq> dandrader, but why would we impose a slide-up transition for it? why not leave that to the vkb itself?
[21:06] <Saviq> dandrader, but then there's stuff like dasher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasher
[21:06] <Saviq> erm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasher_%28software%29
[21:06] <Saviq> and any number of things like that, that we should try and not preclude for no good reason
[21:07] <Saviq> dandrader, and well, ultimately it's not our decision anyway, but UX design's, on what we want to allow
[21:07] <dandrader> Saviq, I would ask the other way round: why limit our animations and interactions for no good reason
[21:07] <dandrader> ?
[21:07] <Saviq> dandrader, limit in what way?
[21:09] <dandrader> Saviq, sliding up and down for instance. and, more importantly, how such animations are orchestrated to fit well with other UI components such as the launcher
[21:14] <Saviq> dandrader, how would they be orchestrated? how does the launcher impact the vkb?
[21:15] <Saviq> IMO the launcher should just go over the app (and hence the vkb, which is part of the app)
[21:17] <Saviq> I don't see the reason to force a slide up/down animation, what if people want it to fade in/out, or plainly just show up? I'd see it as a user preference, and not something we want to implement, but the vkb should
[21:17] <Saviq> but again, that's me
[21:17] <Saviq> I don't have to be right, nor do I have the binding word :)
[21:19] <dandrader> Saviq, this a good video on the current crop of vkbs: http://youtu.be/Ig7icgTHtDY
[21:21] <dandrader> Saviq, I see the way you dismiss a OSK as a shell thing. like the way you dismiss a window
[21:21] <dandrader> Saviq, from the shell point of view an input method is a "black" rectangle
[21:21] <dandrader> Saviq, although it can draw outside its boundaries.
[21:21] <dandrader> anyway, EOD