[00:06] <Eickmeyer> New xfce4-panel?
[00:07]  * Eickmeyer got pinged from #ubuntu-release
[00:07] <Eickmeyer> Oh! Adds 4px internal padding!
[00:08] <Eickmeyer> That might be nice. Should we adjust the size of the panel in Ubuntu Studio accordingly?
[00:09] <bluesabre> Most themes should already handle that nicely... to my knowledge, the clipping happened primarily in Adwaita
[00:10] <bluesabre> If your icons were rendered fully, they should continue to look the same  :)
[00:12] <Eickmeyer> Okay, that works. Our default theme is changing to Materia this cycle, and so far things work nicely. I'll be watching.
[00:13] <bluesabre> Nice
[00:13] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh I forgot to say, I plan to clear Bionic out of xubuntu-dev/experimental.
[00:13]  * bluesabre checks out the materia theme
[00:13]  * Eickmeyer got tired of having the (incredibly small) team maintain Numix-Blue, and Materia fit quite nicely.
[00:15] <bluesabre> Good news, updated panel looks fine with materia
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> \o/
[00:16] <bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, go for it
[00:16]  * bluesabre plans to upgrade work desktop to cosmic
[00:16] <Eickmeyer> There is one bug we have when it comes to Ubiquity and its handling of the font color on the top bar header. That's in progress.
[00:17] <Unit193> "Oh whoops, deleted the PPA instead!" :>
[00:18] <bluesabre> D:
[00:19] <Unit193> ..So in theory for the elementary-xfce packaging, you could just git import the Salsa packaging too, I'd think.

[00:29] <Unit193> Deletion comment: Bionic is not a place for experiments
[00:29] <bluesabre> :)
[00:30] <Eickmeyer> Unit193: hahaha
[00:30] <Unit193> Hmm?
[05:21] <knome> ochosi, i certainly have libcolord-dev installed, and i'm looking at autogen output, but there's nothing about color
[05:26] <knome> nvm, it works now. apparently i had needed to do some kind of "make clean" operation :P
[05:27] <knome> and thank you for implementing this. now it's even useful to me as i got a hold of a spider for a while..
[05:30] <Unit193> You're holding a spider?
[05:30] <Unit193> What's the colord profiling benefit precisely?
[05:30] <knome> that's the question i've been asking myself whole last night.
[05:30] <knome> (now that i've seen how "much" it changes)
[05:49] <ochosi> knome: you need gnome-color-manager for the info and calibrate buttons
[05:50] <knome> ochosi, ahha...
[05:50] <ochosi> if they're shown and you dont have it thats a bug
[05:50] <knome> yep
[05:50] <knome> there you go :P
[05:50] <ochosi> they're shown conditionally
[05:50] <ochosi> preselecting a device is possible, i didnt feel it was necessary though
[05:50] <knome> yeah
[05:51] <knome> it's a bit frustrating that it's not done
[05:51] <ochosi> knowing which the primary monitor isnt that easy though
[05:51] <knome> with one-monitor setups...
[05:51] <ochosi> i could just select the first element
[05:51] <knome> well just even pick the first one
[05:51] <knome> yes, that's fair enough
[05:51] <ochosi> could also be a printer or a scanner though
[05:51] <knome> right, but still
[05:52] <knome> just pre-select anything :)
[05:52] <ochosi> hehe
[05:52] <ochosi> bbl, kids are waiting
[05:52] <knome> hf
[06:05] <knome> fwiw, xfce4-settings is now 100% translated to finnish
[06:37] <knome> bluesabre, why is there a string that should not be translated in catfish? :P
[08:09] <ochosi> knome: kewl, i may need to improve some more strings before the final release though... ;)
[08:09] <ochosi> also, feel free to remind me about those two things or submit bugreports so i dont forget
[08:09] <ochosi> and thanks for testing!
[18:19] <knome> ochosi, no problemo!
[23:30] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-sensors-plugin/1.3.92-1/+build/16332920 have any ideas about that?


[01:44] <RainCT> good night
[01:44] <sistpoty> gn8 RainCT
[01:52] <leonel> any information why there was no  tribe 6 today ?
[01:54] <geser> leonel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-September/000337.html
[02:00] <sistpoty> #ubuntu-devel
[02:00] <sistpoty> oops, sorry
[02:08] <sistpoty> any main sponsors around?
[02:09] <ajmitch> anyone going to attend a meeting?
[02:09] <sistpoty> oh, sheesh
[02:09] <TheMuso> shit
[02:09] <geser> sistpoty: you didn't miss anything
[02:10] <sistpoty> :)
[02:24] <bluefoxicy> so I guess vmware server has really been pulled from universe?
[02:24] <bluefoxicy> (virtualbox doesn't have kernel modules ...)
[02:25] <alex-weej> bluefoxicy: it's in commercial
[02:25] <alex-weej> i want to install player but i can't because the kernel modules are built against a well old version of linux
[02:26] <bluefoxicy> alex-weej:  commercial?
[02:26] <bluefoxicy> there's a new repo?
[02:26] <alex-weej> bluefoxicy: as of more than a year ago
[02:26] <alex-weej> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-vmware-server-from-canonical-commercial-repository-in-ubuntu-feisty.html
[02:27] <bluefoxicy> it's not in the synaptic checkbox interface thing ;P
[02:27] <geser> didn't it got renamed to partner recently?
[02:27] <bszmyd> Should a new upstream version of a package become available in Debian before being submitted to Ubuntu, or can Ubuntu packages be uplevel of Debian?
[02:27] <alex-weej> geser: well not that i know of
[02:28] <alex-weej> bszmyd: absolutely the latter
[02:28] <geser> I've seen upload mentioning it
[02:28] <bszmyd> alex-weej: do they need to be versioned ubuntu in that case?
[02:28] <alex-weej> bszmyd: i'm not sure
[02:29] <geser> alex-weej: see for example https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-September/007466.html
[02:30] <alex-weej> you think the distro should be feisty-partner?
[02:30] <bluefoxicy> I can't find a gutsy-commercial or gutsy-partner
[02:30] <alex-weej> http://archive.canonical.com/dists/
[02:30] <alex-weej> bluefoxicy: that's probably because gutsy isn't supported yet :P
[02:34] <sistpoty> keescook: around?
[02:35] <sistpoty> keescook: we've got some question regarding the interaction of SRUs and -security uploads during the motu meeting right now, so if you're around, maybe you could join into #ubuntu-meeting?
[03:07] <pwnguin> anyone have experience using quilt within packages?
[03:31] <StevenK> ScottK: Yay!
[03:32] <geser> StevenK: you missed the MOTU meeting
[03:32] <StevenK> When was it?
[03:32] <imbrandon> as did i , oops
[03:32] <geser> 0 UTC
[03:33] <sistpoty> it's not yet finished (but almost)
[03:33] <StevenK> Ah, it started 1.5 hours ago
[03:33] <StevenK> I was sleeping, and now I'm late for lunch.
[03:34] <_MMA_> imbrandon: Did you get that archive up for joejaxx?
[03:35] <imbrandon> no, i dident, i'll have them back over herer tomarrow where i can upload it if its still needed
[03:35] <sistpoty> damn, all the core-devs run away, before I could even say what main package I need sponsored *g*
[03:35] <imbrandon> sistpoty: what package you need? i'm core
[03:35] <sistpoty> imbrandon: just a tiny debdiff...
[03:36] <sistpoty> imbrandon: but a huge package: l-r-m
[03:36] <imbrandon> ahhh heh
[03:36] <sistpoty> bug #98641
[03:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "[nvidia-glx-new]  Driver is missing libwfb breaking X on 8000 series cards" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98641
[03:36] <sistpoty> (debdiff attached=
[03:36] <imbrandon> ahh nice, that bug affects me too soooo i should care ;)
[03:36] <imbrandon> ok give me an hour and i'll poke at it
[03:36] <sistpoty> cool, thanks!
[03:36] <TheMuso> heh
[03:37] <sistpoty> (not too sure, if I'll be still awake then though, however I'm accellerated on amd64 right now with my debdiff *g*)
[03:37] <imbrandon> we're not ina  an archive freeze atm are we?
[03:37] <TheMuso> imbrandon: afaik no.
[03:37] <imbrandon> just NEW  ? kk
[03:38] <TheMuso> Actually, unless things have changed in the last 12 hours, no.
[03:38] <imbrandon> kk
[03:38] <imbrandon> just makin sure i havent been watching real close
[03:38] <imbrandon> figured i would get back in full swing for HH
[03:38] <sistpoty> well, I asked earlier on on #ubuntu-kernel, but unfortunately didn't get any answer to the question if anyone minds me fixing the package *g*
[03:39] <TheMuso> sistpoty: I'm surprised they don't have a git tree for it.
[03:39] <TheMuso> c
[03:39] <imbrandon> afaik thtey do i think
[03:39] <imbrandon> dont they ?
[03:39] <TheMuso> Everything else kernel is git
[03:39] <geser> night all
[03:39] <TheMuso> night geser
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Night geser.
[03:39] <joejaxx> Goodnight geser
[03:39] <imbrandon> gnight geser
[03:39] <sistpoty> there was no notice from apt-get source... so if they have, they keep it under the pillow
[03:40] <imbrandon> gutsy: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
[03:41] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide :)
[03:41] <imbrandon> sistpoty: ^^
[03:41] <sistpoty> is l-r-m in there as well?
[03:41] <ScottK> StevenK: I thought you'd like the removal bugs.
[03:41] <imbrandon> i was gonna say i just started reading that so i could start some ATI driver hacking soon
[03:42] <bluefoxicy> heh, KVM28 is the Ubuntu Gutsy version of KVM?
[03:43] <TheMuso> imbrandon: thats kernel only
[03:43] <Fujitsu> Mm, I love mapserver upstream. They seem to have put a whole lot of code convention changes in their latest security release.
[03:43] <Fujitsu> And what a strange convention it is:
[03:43] <Fujitsu> -                       yy_c_buf_p = yytext_ptr + yy_amount_of_matched_text;
[03:43] <Fujitsu> +                       (yy_c_buf_p) = (yytext_ptr) + yy_amount_of_matched_text;
[03:44] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[03:44] <imbrandon> seems silly not to have lrm there too
[03:44] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Well lum is in git, but another tree.
[03:44] <imbrandon> wtf someone hit imbrandon.com and tell me the string of txt ?
[03:45] <imbrandon> fskin dmz's
[03:46] <sistpoty> yep, I wondered about this a few weeks ago, but nobody new precisely (and I didn't get any answer when asking on -kernel, though I admittedly asked about 8000er series, which might have a bad conversation starter *g*)
[03:46] <Fujitsu> william@irranat:~/MOTUing$ telnet imbrandon.com 80
[03:46] <Fujitsu> Trying <IP_ADDRESS>...
[03:46] <Fujitsu> That looks a little off.
[03:47] <imbrandon> thats the nat'd server its not in dns that way
[03:47] <imbrandon> strange
[03:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon.com.          1729    IN      CNAME   imbrandon.zapto.org.
[03:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon.zapto.org.    60      IN      A       <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:47] <imbrandon> wtf over
[03:48] <imbrandon> damn debian no ip client
[03:48] <imbrandon> reporting the nat ip
[03:48] <imbrandon> grrr
[03:48] <sistpoty> lol, I guess I need to put more braces around my not yet working code (at university) *g*
[03:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Is it doing dynamic updates and providing the wrong IP?
[03:48] <imbrandon> thanks Fujitsu
[03:48] <Fujitsu> np
[03:48] <imbrandon> yes
[03:48] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[03:48] <imbrandon> its reporitng the lan ip not the wan one
[03:49] <imbrandon> fskin
[03:49] <ScottK> !logs
[03:49] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[03:52] <Fujitsu> Bah, I give up on mapserver. I thought a UVFe would be easy for a security update, but:
[03:52] <Fujitsu>  166 files changed, 3424 insertions(+), 84916 deletions(-)
[03:52] <TheMuso> ouch
[03:55] <Fujitsu> Why must they put parentheses around *everything* in a x.x.1 increment?
[03:55] <imbrandon> ok Fujitsu mint telneting one more time
[03:55] <Fujitsu> imbrandon.zapto.org.    60      IN      A       <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:55] <Fujitsu> Better.
[03:55] <imbrandon> thanks
[03:56] <imbrandon> hopefully on next update it wont revert
[03:56] <Fujitsu> `imbrandon.com' is the response.
[03:56] <Fujitsu> Hopefully.
[03:56] <imbrandon> yea i have my domain redirecting to my house for the time being
[03:56] <imbrandon> untill i secure some better hosting
[03:57] <TheMuso> imbrandon: You still working for that hosting company?
[03:57] <imbrandon> no
[03:57] <imbrandon> thus me bringing the servers to my house
[03:57] <Fujitsu> Ahhh.
[03:57] <TheMuso> oh
[03:57] <bszmyd_> how does one request a sponsor manually since the requestsponsor script does not seem to be working?
[03:57] <ScottK> FYI, on SRU version numbers I've done numbering like security does (.1) and if there was a conflict between security and updates used 0.1 so that both can still be incremented.
[03:58] <Fujitsu> bszmyd_: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[03:58] <TheMuso> imbrandon: U gioe tiy parted on good terms.
[03:58] <Fujitsu> O_o
[03:58] <TheMuso> I hope you parted on good terms even
[03:58] <imbrandon> TheMuso: yea
[03:58] <bszmyd_> Fujitsu: Are you saying ask my question there, or post my request there?
[03:58] <Fujitsu> bszmyd_: File a bug and subscribe that tmea.
[03:58] <Fujitsu> *team
[03:58] <imbrandon> i actualy ended up witha better paying job in a better envirnment
[03:59] <ScottK> Who for now?
[03:59] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Ah ok. Good to hear.
[03:59] <imbrandon> federal reserve
[03:59] <sistpoty> ScottK: sounds reasonable. so a sru with .2 should pick up security from .1.X
[03:59] <imbrandon> AIX administration
[03:59] <ScottK> Yes
[03:59] <ScottK> Everyone be careful, there's a Fed on the channel...
[03:59] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:00] <imbrandon> bah ;)
[04:00] <TheMuso> heh
[04:00] <imbrandon> i dont actualy work for them i work for a company that has a contract with them ;)
[04:01] <ScottK> sistpoty: The example in question was lighttpd for Dapper: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/
[04:01] <ScottK> I worked it out with keescook to make sure he was cool with it before I did it.
[04:03] <sistpoty> cool, so I guess this might be a good reference
[04:05] <ScottK> sistpoty: It's probably about as complex as you can get as I had to do a security update both to the released version in security and to a pending SRU in -proposed.
[04:06] <sistpoty> yay!
[04:06] <ScottK> Doing a security update in proposed confused the archive and it got rejected the first time.
[04:06] <ScottK> It all worked out in the end.
[04:06] <sistpoty> hehe
[04:09] <sistpoty> hey LaserJock
[04:10] <ScottK> Heya LaserJock.
[04:10] <LaserJock> hi guys
[04:11] <ScottK> LaserJock: I figured out what was bugging me so much about the PPA terms of service.
[04:11] <LaserJock> sistpoty: nice email
[04:11] <sistpoty> thx LaserJock
[04:11] <LaserJock> ScottK: yeah?
[04:11] <ScottK> You are correct that they are very typical for terms that business use with their customers (youtube is very similar)
[04:12] <LaserJock> sistpoty: we'll see what comes of it ;-)
[04:12] <ScottK> And that's what I guess was getting me.
[04:12] <sistpoty> LaserJock: definitely, I'm already preparing for impact *g*
[04:12] <LaserJock> hmm, they are a business and we are their customers
[04:12] <ScottK> Are we part of a community here or are we customers from which Canonical is seeking to extract maximum economic benifit.?
[04:13] <ScottK> That's a rationale perspective, but not what I would have hoped for.
[04:13] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:13] <ScottK> As an example, the Canonical trademark policy on Ubuntu is very community oriented and generous compared to what it might be.
[04:13] <LaserJock> well, I think LP is a tad different
[04:13] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:13] <imbrandon> launchpad and ubuntu are very diffrent products though
[04:13] <LaserJock> if it was only an Ubuntu thing it might be different
[04:14] <sistpoty> hm... I guess this can't be compared, but publishing a paper via acm ... just like selling your soul *g*
[04:14] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[04:14] <ScottK> Agreed and we've argued about it before.
[04:14] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[04:14] <LaserJock> but yeah, it'd be nice if it was more of a community approach
[04:14] <ScottK> So that's why it bugged me so much.
[04:15] <ScottK> I think it would be quite reasonable to say that if you put something in a PPA that's not distributable and we get sued, you pay for the lawyers.
[04:15] <LaserJock> I found the "You must only upload opens source software to our closed source app" part more interesting ;-)
[04:15] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:15] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh, yes.
[04:15] <ScottK> I'd like to see it be as long as you follow the terms of service, we'll work together to deal with any bad fallout.
[04:16] <sistpoty> hm... if I had known, I'd have written an even sharper reply tonight *g*
[04:16] <ScottK> As it stands, I'd be very relucant to upload stuff that I didn't write all by myself.  People can sue for anything.
[04:17] <ScottK> A related question I'm curious about is who is legally responsible for team PPAs?
[04:18] <ScottK> I have access to one because of a team I'm on and I never agreed to any terms.
[04:18] <Fujitsu> Presumably the uploader.
[04:18] <Fujitsu> Hm, you can upload to a PPA without agreeing to the ToS at all.
[04:18] <LaserJock> yeah, they are going to be tracking uploader, for other reasons
[04:18] <LaserJock> a team PPA yeah
[04:18] <ScottK> Presumably, but if I'm the uploader and I never agreed to the terms, they don't have legal force.
[04:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: They don't at the moment, I believe.
[04:19] <sistpoty> ScottK: not too sure, in case they're acting as "service provider" (as in isp)
[04:19] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I'm not in the LP beta and I now have this link to "activate my ppa" that requires me to accept terms of service.
[04:19] <ScottK> sistpoty: It's a point of uncertainty.
[04:20] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Hm, I wonder why...
[04:20] <ScottK> The key bit is I have to pay the lawyers and any judgements if they get sued.
[04:20] <ScottK> Which is why I declined to accept the terms.
[04:20] <LaserJock> for your packages, yeah
[04:21] <sistpoty> were can I find the ToS?
[04:21] <LaserJock> at your PPA
[04:21] <ScottK> Right, but even if the packages are legal to distribute and I didn't actually do anything that violates the terms of service?
[04:21] <LaserJock> you can get sued in real life the same way
[04:22] <ScottK> Sure, but the internet is a big place and the exposure is bigger.
[04:22] <LaserJock> yeah, but it's similar rationale
[04:22] <LaserJock> and why should Canonical be responsible for your packages
[04:23] <ScottK> Why should I be responsible for Canonical's legal bills if I used their service only in a legal way?
[04:23] <Fujitsu> If it was used in a legal way, why are there legal bills?
[04:23] <ScottK> I think that if someone actually distributes illegally via PPA, it is totally reasonable for them to pay.
[04:23] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Even if you win the lawsuit, there are still legal bills.
[04:24] <ScottK> In the US loser only pays legal costs in VERY extreme cases.
[04:24] <ScottK> Anyone can sue whether it's reasonable or not.
[04:25] <ScottK> So it really comes down, IMO, to are PPAs a community resource or a commercial product.  It's clearly the latter in Canonical's mind and I don't particularly appreciate it.
[04:25] <LaserJock> LP is a commercial product
[04:25] <ScottK> They're welcome to that perspective (they're paying for it after all), but I wish it were different.
[04:25] <ScottK> Sure.
[04:26] <ScottK> Which is why the less we entangle our processes into it the better.
[04:26] <LaserJock> that's certainly one way to look at it
[04:26] <ScottK> I don't think it's 'evil' or anything, just clearly outside the community.
[04:26] <sistpoty> luckily I'm in Germany, and we can host revu (with a good connection now) for free :)
[04:26] <Fujitsu> You mean the page might not take a couple of minutes to load!?
[04:27] <LaserJock> I don't think it's outside the community because it's a commercial product
[04:27] <bddebian> Damn did I miss something? :-)
[04:27] <ScottK> bddebian: Bug 137447
[04:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137447 in soyuz "PPA Terms of Service one sided" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137447
[04:27] <bddebian> Ah
[04:27] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: it's still a very old sparc box, but we'll be migrating to s.th. faster next tuesday (hopefully, unless I'm burdened with work) *g*
[04:28] <LaserJock> I don't think open-source/closed-source or free/commercial have much of anything to do community or not
[04:28] <LaserJock> *do with
[04:28] <LaserJock> sistpoty: are you really wanting a response to your email? or where you sort of kidding? :-)
[04:28] <ScottK> LaserJock: I agree, but the terms of use for PPA are not community terms.  They are commercial terms.  They're choice, but that's what they are.
[04:28] <ScottK> They're/Their
[04:29] <LaserJock> I don't really know how you can say they aren't community terms
[04:29] <sistpoty> LaserJock: both :P
[04:30] <ScottK> There's no balance to them.  They are written for maximum advantage to Canoncial (as a commercial entity should do), not in a way that's balanced and benifits the community.
[04:30] <LaserJock> how is it not a benifit to the community? we get to use PPAs
[04:30] <ScottK> If you agree to the one sided terms.
[04:30] <LaserJock> it's usual "you play nice, we play nice"
[04:31] <ScottK> Except that's not what it says.
[04:31] <LaserJock> sure seems like that to me
[04:31] <ScottK> It says even if you play nice if something bad happens you get all the bills and we pay nothing.
[04:31] <sistpoty> restricting a community to (not very well thought of ToS -- I consider the Ubuntu CoC to be one of the good ones) will potentially cost you members. Especially if the ToS is written in a language, which isn't parseable by JohnDoe, but instead inflicts a feeling of fear
[04:32] <LaserJock> ScottK: but you are focusing on a silly little thing and making a big deal out of it
[04:32] <sistpoty> damn, set the braces to whatever you may seem fit, but not like in the sentence I wrote ;)
[04:32] <LaserJock> I'm sure it could be nicer to the community "Canonical foots the bill for everything"
[04:32] <ScottK> LaserJock: It's a silly little thing to you.  Please don't project your perspective on me.
[04:32] <LaserJock> ScottK: I'm not
[04:33] <ScottK> OK.  I accept that.  It sounded that way to me.
[04:33] <LaserJock> I'm saying your picking on one thing, and provided no evidence that it's even a problem or unusual
[04:33] <LaserJock> and saying the whole TOS is bad
[04:34] <ScottK> I think that Ubuntu is unusual and the fact that the ToS are not similarly unusual is unfortunate.
[04:34] <LaserJock> It definately might be something to have people look into
[04:34] <imbrandon> LP ( PPA's ) is NOT ubuntu
[04:34] <ScottK> Agreed and that's the problem.
[04:34] <imbrandon> learn and live that
[04:35] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Some are trying to turn it into a big part of the MOTU hopeful processes.
[04:35] <sistpoty> imbrandon: but the limits are blurring
[04:35] <LaserJock> I don't see why allowing Canonical to cover their butt from all the weirdos out there is not being a part of the community
[04:35] <imbrandon> i dont see that as a problem, if you dont like it you can goto the CC and persuade them to use a better product, LP and Ubuntu are 100% seperate
[04:35] <ScottK> imbrandon: You weren't here for the 4 hour IRC "discussion" LaserJock and I had over the sense of using proprietary systems to make FOSS.  I know.
[04:35] <LaserJock> Canonical bears a much greater work
[04:35] <LaserJock> s/work/risk/
[04:35] <imbrandon> ScottK: yes i was
[04:35] <ScottK> Oh. OK.
[04:35] <imbrandon> and i dont see the problem
[04:35] <LaserJock> the odds of any one of us getting sued is quite small
[04:36] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Which one? I might have missed it.,
[04:36] <ScottK> Fujitsu: You were there.
[04:36] <Fujitsu> OK, there have been a few, so I wasn't sure if I'd missed one.
[04:36] <LaserJock> heh
[04:36] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'd just prefer if the terms were in the spirit of as long as you don't do anything wrong we're all in this together.
[04:36] <Fujitsu> Do we know when PPA is being released?
[04:36] <imbrandon> i dont care if someone uses VisualStudio to compile a ubuntu package or kernel, nor use LP for Bugtracking or PPA's but i do see that VS and LP are not ubuntu
[04:37] <ScottK> Fujitsu: One of those was enough.
[04:37] <imbrandon> dosent mean i will
[04:37] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: they are already for Beta Testors
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Mm, VS-compiled kernel. I like it.
[04:37] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: beta != release
[04:37] <LaserJock> should be public in a couple weeks I think
[04:37] <ScottK> imbrandon: right.  which is why we should keep it out of our core processes as much as possible.
[04:37] <Fujitsu> :(
[04:37] <LaserJock> it's a public beta
[04:37] <LaserJock> and anybody is welcome to join Beta Testors
[04:37] <imbrandon> ScottK: why ? that means your projecting your ideals on me then, i think ppa are a good tool that should be included
[04:37] <imbrandon> see my point ?
[04:38] <LaserJock> it's about as released as you get, without releasing
[04:38] <ScottK> imbrandon: I don't mind you using PPA.  I just don't want to be forced to do it.
[04:39] <imbrandon> no one is forced to use it even if it becomes more of a part of the MOTU processes, just as they dont HAVE to use LP for bug tracking or bzr LP hosted source
[04:39] <imbrandon> etc
[04:39] <sistpoty> imbrandon: that will limit possible contributors if they agree to the ToS. If they can't parse these, it creates fear
[04:39] <Fujitsu> They do have to use LP for bug tracking, don't they?
[04:39] <ScottK> Pretty much.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> Last time I checked, there wasn't a third-party Ubuntu package bugtracker.
[04:39] <sistpoty> yes, but there is no contract involved.
[04:39] <imbrandon> nah there is a bug tracker for nearly every package in ubuntu  in debian and upstream
[04:40] <imbrandon> point is if you are gonna put that on the line you must stop using the clied sourtce bug tracker also or your blowing hot air imho
[04:40] <imbrandon> closed*
[04:41] <imbrandon> pesonal it dosent bother me to use or let others use it, but if you feel that stroingly about it look at it as a whole, not pick a small scapegoat
[04:41] <imbrandon> personaly*
[04:41] <LaserJock> well, I have to look at it pragmatically
[04:41] <LaserJock> because I'm not gonna change Mark's mind
[04:41] <sistpoty> imbrandon: no, there is a subtle difference, as the bug tracker doesn't mean you have to sign s.th. to be able to report bug. You don't have to sign a contract with google as well when searching
[04:42] <LaserJock> and I can't write a subsitute for LP
[04:42] <LaserJock> sistpoty: no, but we require CoC, and most indepth services have a TOS
[04:42] <imbrandon> sistpoty: your wrong you still agree to their AUP with every use or be banned
[04:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: A CoC signature isn't a requirement.
[04:43] <LaserJock> it is for membership, MOTU, etc.
[04:43] <sistpoty> LaserJock: right, that's what I stated, everyone know what the CoC states, but you'd have to be a lawyer to find out what the ToS exactly means.
[04:43] <sistpoty> imbrandon: AUP?
[04:43] <LaserJock> sistpoty: shesh, who cares
[04:43] <imbrandon> acceptable use policy
[04:44] <Fujitsu> There's a little bit of copyright stuff, I guess.
[04:44] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: i was saying for google or myspace or anyother "service"
[04:44] <LaserJock> I've agreed to so many TOS, usually more legalese and restrictive than the PPA one
[04:44] <LaserJock> I'd say PPA TOS is the least of our problems
[04:45] <Fujitsu> PPA has much bigger problems, such as its existence.
[04:45] <imbrandon> point is its not required to contribute nor even if it becomes more used will it be REQUIRED
[04:45] <bddebian> Like they don't exist already? :_)
[04:45] <Fujitsu> bddebian: Well, they're a lot easier to produce now.
[04:46] <bddebian> True
[04:46] <sistpoty> as a side-note: not agreeing to a ToS received me from a security-update which would have brought me WPA checking. however this can't really be compared though *g*
[04:46] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Yay!
[04:46] <LaserJock> sure
[04:46] <Fujitsu> I hope they fix the maintainer mangling soon, too.
[04:47] <LaserJock> I made a bet with kiko about how  long it would take for somebody to upload w32codecs
[04:47] <Fujitsu> Bwaha.
[04:47] <imbrandon> libdvdcss2
[04:47] <LaserJock> I said 1 week
[04:47] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Yeeeep.
[04:47] <LaserJock> we had a ton of bugs for beryl, and it wasn't even uploaded
[04:47] <ScottK> Gotta run.  See you all later.
[04:47] <LaserJock> it's not unique to PPA
[04:47] <sistpoty> oh, btw.: interesting thing about PPA's is that what you can upload differs entirely from what you can upload to ubuntu pockets
[04:48] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: How?
[04:50] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: as discussed on the LP ml. not too sure if I can reproduce now correctly, but iirc ppa state that you need to adhere to license X, Y, Z, whereas the ubuntu policy states that it needs to be free (not as plain as this, exaggerating as an example=)
[04:50] <Fujitsu> Ubuntu policy doesn't actually exist, AFAIK.
[04:50] <sistpoty> it does
[04:50] <Fujitsu> Where?
[04:52] <LaserJock> sistpoty: they said that anything Free for Ubuntu is Free for PPA
[04:53] <sistpoty> LaserJock: right, but the ToS says differently
[04:53] <LaserJock> that just needs to get worked out
[04:54] <sistpoty> yeah, as I stated already, it imho needs to be made similar to the CoC, so that everyone can understand it easily
[04:55] <LaserJock> yeah, but that is a bit difficult for actual legal issues
[04:56] <LaserJock> if we want easy to understand
[04:56] <LaserJock> then we should never use GPL
[04:56] <sistpoty> point for you ;')
[04:56] <LaserJock> of course it shouldn't be unneccesarily difficult
[04:57] <LaserJock> but, well, legelese is life, unfortunately
[04:57] <LaserJock> I can't really blame Canonical for that
[04:59] <sistpoty> imo explaining the license in clear words might help a lot (though I'm not entirely aware of the legal implications of doing so)
[04:59] <LaserJock> well, you can do like CC
[04:59] <LaserJock> and have a "plain english" header
[05:00] <LaserJock> Scottk's point definately is worth looking at
[05:00] <LaserJock> but making a big stink out of it is just silly
[05:00] <LaserJock> what are the odds of any of us getting sued?
[05:01] <imbrandon> man all this jumble trying to go forward with something , 20 years of discussion and no resolution is looking more and more like debian not ubuntu
[05:02] <Fujitsu> We inherited their packages and processes, so surely we must have inherited that as well :P
[05:02] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: not for the first 2.5 years but as times goes on people seem to bring the same mentaility
[05:02] <imbrandon> thats a bad thing(tm)
[05:02] <imbrandon> imho
[05:03] <imbrandon> and no we inherited very few processes
[05:03] <imbrandon> if any that are still in use
[05:04] <StevenK> I quite like our lack of processes.
[05:04] <tonyyarusso> The NEW queue is getting tantalizingly shorter.... :P
[05:04] <imbrandon> StevenK: exactly, if i wanted all that i would be a DD not a ubuntu dev
[05:04] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: damn, can't find ubuntu licensing neither on the wiki nor on the ubuntu.com site now. It must hide somewhere, I'm sure, telling about what software can enter which archive
[05:05] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I asked elmo about it a while ago
[05:05] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: It's not strictly defined, though... Doesn't give a proper policy on GFDL, etc.
[05:05] <LaserJock> sistpoty: regarding CC licenses, and I believe it's gone
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Otherwise it's mostly DFSG-freeness.
[05:05] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I think there used to be an acutal policy page
[05:05] <imbrandon> sistpoty: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
[05:06] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: yes, but in words that I can understand (I'm not too sure if I could understand DFSG though *g*)
[05:06] <Fujitsu> There's probably a secret document on the Canonical wiki.
[05:06] <sistpoty> thx imbrandon
[05:06] <imbrandon> we dont 100% adhear to dfsg either
[05:06] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: `mostly'
[05:07] <imbrandon> :)
[05:07] <LaserJock> elmo said it's basically DFSG+doc/artwork licenses
[05:07] <LaserJock> so CC-By-SA and GFDL are ok for doc/artwork
[05:07] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: that's about what I thought, but it's not documented.
[05:07] <sistpoty> oh, since when can restricted stuff reside in main? that's news to me *g*
[05:08] <LaserJock> in the end, it's all up to the the archive admins
[05:08] <LaserJock> same with Debian
[05:08] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Where's this?
[05:08] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: but main may also may contain binary firmware and selected fonts that cannot be modified
[05:09] <sistpoty> this makes restricted seem unnecessary
[05:09] <LaserJock> it's the binary firmware in Restricted?
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Hm, like ipw2[12] 00, I guess.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: My ipw2200 works without lrm.
[05:10] <LaserJock> *shrug*
[05:11] <sistpoty> *shrug as well*
[05:11] <LaserJock> Ubuntu works in mysterious ways ;-)
[05:11] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:12] <pwnguin> is there seriously a technical problem with GFDL?
[05:12] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Mhm.
[05:12] <sistpoty> but what if errors are in invariant sectoins? :P
[05:12] <StevenK> No, it just doesn't meet the DFSG.
[05:12] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Invariant sections, I forget what else.
[05:13] <pwnguin> Fujitsu: unless invariant sections are describing technical details, i dont see the huge problem
[05:14] <Fujitsu> It's non-modifiable. How's that not a problem?
[05:14] <LaserJock> there aren't any problems with GFDL
[05:14] <LaserJock> seriously
[05:15] <pwnguin> Fujitsu: unless i see evidence of abuse, i'm taking the opposite position by default
[05:15] <LaserJock> I think GFDL of a place where DFSG is kinda insufficient
[05:15] <LaserJock> or maybe a bit too narrow
[05:15] <pwnguin> has there ever been a place where an invariant section was used in documentation?
[05:15] <LaserJock> yes
[05:16] <LaserJock> emacs documentation
[05:16] <LaserJock> gcc documentation
[05:16] <LaserJock> TeX documentation
[05:16] <LaserJock> they were largely stripped from Debian main
[05:16] <LaserJock> which cause a lot of nice maintainence issues
[05:16] <pwnguin> for having invariants?
[05:16] <LaserJock> yes
[05:17] <LaserJock> RMS likes to make the licens invariant, for example
[05:17] <LaserJock> *license
[05:17] <pwnguin> that seems fine to me
[05:17] <LaserJock> people seriously need to read the GFDL, I think
[05:18] <LaserJock> you can only make front matter invariant
[05:18] <pwnguin> marking the authors or license invariant doesn't seem like "abuse" to me
[05:18] <LaserJock> you can't make anything invariant that actually has anything to do with the topic
[05:18] <LaserJock> it can't be in any of the chapters
[05:18] <LaserJock> etc.
[05:19] <pwnguin> then the dfsg is d's problem
[05:19] <LaserJock> well, the DFSG is really great
[05:19] <LaserJock> I just think maybe it's a bit too narrow
[05:19] <imbrandon> everything should be bsd
[05:19] <LaserJock> but that's why Debian has been awesome
[05:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:20] <LaserJock> so I can see why they stick to their guns and I think that's cool
[05:20] <LaserJock> but I think Ubuntu's approach is better
[05:20] <LaserJock> but a bit vague ;-)
[05:20] <pwnguin> well, i can understand taking a position and sticking with it
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> Ultimately the best approach is to have both approaches exist and interacting though.  Just Ubuntu's or just Debian's attitude wouldn't be as neat as the two.
[05:21] <pwnguin> but when people think the DFSG is not Free as in FSF Free
[05:22] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: I think just Ubuntu's would suffice ;-)
[05:22] <LaserJock> it'd be great if we didn't need Debian
[05:22] <pwnguin> Debian does a lot of work
[05:23] <pwnguin> im inclined to let them
[05:23] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Well, we had gNewSense _and_ Gobuntu already even with Debian's existence
[05:23] <LaserJock> or RH or openSUSE for that matter
[05:23] <StevenK> We always need Debian - we simply don't have the manpower.
[05:23] <pwnguin> i havent seen anything novel out of gobuntu yet
[05:23] <LaserJock> StevenK: I wasn't saying that they would just go away
[05:23] <pwnguin> that project is in dire need of leadership and developers
[05:23] <imbrandon> uht oh out of mt dew, time for bed soon
[05:24] <LaserJock> I'd rather see Debian become a part of Ubuntu really
[05:24] <LaserJock> but well, that's not going to happen
[05:24] <pwnguin> its an interesting situation
[05:24] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: As I understand it, we weren't debating that - just the dfsg attitude.  I doubt anyone would argue the manpower or effort.
[05:24] <sistpoty> imbrandon: still considering l-r-m?
[05:25] <imbrandon> sistpoty: ahh i forgot, yes i'll grab it now and poke it
[05:25] <sistpoty> imbrandon: thanks a lot!
[05:25] <imbrandon> sistpoty: mind linking me again to the lp bug ?
[05:25] <imbrandon> i'm lazy
[05:25] <sistpoty> give me a sec
[05:25] <imbrandon> k
[05:26] <LaserJock> I'm just tired of wasted effort, duplication, and reinventing the wheel
[05:26] <sistpoty> bug #98641
[05:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "[nvidia-glx-new]  Driver is missing libwfb breaking X on 8000 series cards" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98641
[05:26] <imbrandon> yea merge kde and gnome :)
[05:26] <imbrandon> lol
[05:26] <LaserJock> Ubuntu is too far downstream
[05:26] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, I did propose that
[05:26] <LaserJock> nixternal didn't agree ;-)
[05:27] <sistpoty> but I wouldn't have such lovely kmail problems then *g*
[05:27] <imbrandon> i dont either personaly but i wouldent knock someone for trying
[05:27] <StevenK> I seriously doubt the DFSG would go away.
[05:27] <imbrandon> yea just drop gnome , it was created because qt wasent gpl anyhow and thats no longer an issue ;)
[05:27] <StevenK> It would take 3:1 supermajority to do that, since it requires a Consituition change.
[05:27] <bddebian> imbrandon: hah
[05:27] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't think that's a good solution
[05:28] <StevenK> imbrandon: Even though GTK visually looks much better than QT?
[05:28] <LaserJock> imbrandon: gnome is much more than that ;-)
[05:28] <imbrandon> StevenK: bah, get glasses ;)
[05:28] <sistpoty> imbrandon: well, the moc was created because kde-devs didn't know better, right? *g*
[05:28] <pwnguin> just hold a vote that declares an innocuos comma drastically changes the meaning of supermajorit
[05:28] <pwnguin> y
[05:28] <StevenK> imbrandon: What, rose-coloured ones? :-P
[05:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:29] <imbrandon> and no really, if you go back and look at history gnome was created for only one reason, a modern DE that was full GPL unlike QT at the time
[05:29] <imbrandon> to replace KDE
[05:30] <LaserJock> but that was a long time ago
[05:30] <imbrandon> not all that long ago in the grand scheme of things
[05:30] <LaserJock> and that hasn't been Gnome's focus for some time
[05:30] <StevenK> Agreed.
[05:31] <LaserJock> that's like me saying the reason I started working in Ubuntu was because of a ghemical bug
[05:31] <LaserJock> and now that that bug is closed I shouldn't work in Ubuntu anymore
[05:31] <imbrandon> sure, the reason i started was a kbfx bug ;)
[05:31] <imbrandon> nah but it makes you look for another reason
[05:31] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:31] <sistpoty> Nonetheless, I've installed gnome on my gf's laptop, because it's better integrated within ubuntu... ok ok I could fix bugs of kde instead of only reporting these *g*
[05:31] <pwnguin> this sounds like it should be at the next uds
[05:32] <LaserJock> I just switched to KDE
[05:32] <imbrandon> pwnguin: we've had this discussion at many uds's
[05:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:32] <pwnguin> a large mural of people writing "why i joined ubuntu"
[05:32] <LaserJock> because gnome stopped letting me logout
[05:32] <pwnguin> not the fighting over which is better part
[05:32] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:32] <sistpoty> LaserJock: welcome to the real world (of pain?) *g*
[05:32] <imbrandon> yea i actualy have gnome installed atm
[05:32] <LaserJock> sistpoty: KDE works just fine for me, so that's what I'm using currently
[05:32] <TheMuso> GNOME is accessible to the blind and vison impaired. Its the better desktop. Nuf said.
[05:33] <LaserJock> it's really annoying that something broke Gnome for me
[05:33] <bddebian> You could say that about Windows
[05:33] <imbrandon> the bad thing is i have amarok and konversation and kopete and well most of kde installed
[05:33] <pwnguin> k3b
[05:33] <LaserJock> I hate amarok, but konversation and kopete are really nice
[05:33] <pwnguin> brasero is getting there, but k3b still rock
[05:33] <pwnguin> s
[05:33] <imbrandon> i havent found anything better than amaork besides iTunes
[05:33] <sistpoty> well, I'm addicted to kde since 1.something, which was what we got back then at university. and once I've found out how to assign a shortcut to open konsole, i was pleased and never considered switching again
[05:34] <StevenK> LaserJock: What do you use?
[05:34] <imbrandon> sistpoty: +5 me too
[05:34] <LaserJock> pwnguin: I've never had a problem with the Gnome tools
[05:34] <LaserJock> StevenK: for what?
[05:34] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:34] <TheMuso> Meh. mpd + several clients FTW! :)
[05:34] <pwnguin> LaserJock: ive made several coasters from nautilus's tools
[05:34] <StevenK> LaserJock: For playing music
[05:34] <LaserJock> pwnguin: I've never had a single one (which I can't say the same for k3b)
[05:34] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: Really?  Always !worksforme
[05:35] <pwnguin> tonyyarusso: really. i'd right click on an iso
[05:35] <LaserJock> StevenK: well, when I *do* play music it's usually rhythmbox or more often it seems sound juicer
[05:35] <pwnguin> pick the burn option, and it'd come up with a dialog that did everything but actually make a bootable cd
[05:35] <imbrandon> pwnguin: you looking to becomes a MOTU ? we should hookup for some hacking on Hardon H-Bird since we're only a few miles appart
[05:35] <sistpoty> hm... I guess I'm out if I say that mpg123/ogg123 works fine for me... I can even mix songs when running in multiple shells *g*
[05:35] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Does rhythmbox do gapless yet?
[05:35] <StevenK> Don't call it that.
[05:35] <pwnguin> imbrandon: possibly. i just got a ppa
[05:36] <StevenK> TheMuso: I think it does in Gutsy.
[05:36] <LaserJock> TheMuso: haven't a clue. I just told it to look at my mp3s and it plays them
[05:36] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:36] <LaserJock> much easier than amarok
[05:36] <LaserJock> I usually listen to CDs anyway
[05:36] <imbrandon> amarok does too and updates collection auto and lastfm and gapless and well everything
[05:37] <LaserJock> so whatever pops up when I stick the CD in is what I use
[05:37] <sistpoty> LaserJock: these will get scratches and stuff?
[05:37] <pwnguin> the one bug i have with rhythmbox is that i cant set a different default playlist than "library"
[05:37] <TheMuso> Well I intend to get my collection ripped, so I can use mpd+icecast+any streaming client to play music from anywhere in the house on any machine.
[05:37] <imbrandon> wow people still put audio on cd's? hehe
[05:37] <sistpoty> (as known from my car cd-player, which ceases to work every 3rd song)
[05:37] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, they do
[05:37] <LaserJock> I don't have enough disk space to rip everything
[05:37] <pwnguin> but certainly without an ipod / whatever, im no study group
[05:37] <LaserJock> plus it's a pain in the but
[05:38] <imbrandon> sistpoty: usbstick+car audio
[05:38] <LaserJock> so I mostly just use the CDs
[05:38] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Once done, its very useful. I had my stuff ripped, but an HD crash soon saw the end of that.
[05:38] <LaserJock> exactly
[05:38] <sistpoty> imbrandon: doesn't fit into that damn cd-slot, and I'm too greedy to bye a different player
[05:38] <TheMuso> And I wasn't happy with the layout anyway.
[05:38] <LaserJock> I don't have enough diskspace
[05:38] <LaserJock> I have a local gutsy mirror
[05:39] <TheMuso> But this time, I will be putting it on my new RAID1 file server I am building.
[05:39] <LaserJock> and that eats up most of it
[05:39] <pwnguin> you know, theres another part about debian i like: the ARM port
[05:39] <TheMuso> jj/c
[05:39] <tonyyarusso> ARM?
[05:39] <TheMuso> ugh
[05:39] <imbrandon> i ahve about 6TB of lan stoarage
[05:39] <imbrandon> no shortage here
[05:39] <sistpoty> lucky one ;)
[05:39] <LaserJock> I have 1 160GB drive
[05:39] <pwnguin> verra handy to have routers and nlsus running familiar tools
[05:39] <LaserJock> which I have *everything* on
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> I just threw in a 500GB on my headless desktop
[05:40] <imbrandon> LaserJock: an archive mirror is over 200Gb
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> (wireless connection to lappy)
[05:40] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I only archive i386/source
[05:40] <imbrandon> ahh
[05:40] <LaserJock> since that's where I ran out of space
[05:40] <imbrandon> 50-60GB
[05:40] <LaserJock> and I don't have anything that's not i386
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> I did the same on a portable drive - i386/source of both edgy and dapper.
[05:41] <pwnguin> imbrandon: mostly ive just packaged a couple games stuck in debian's NEW queue, and a fingerprint reader from debian experimental
[05:41] <LaserJock> I was looking into buying some online storage
[05:41] <LaserJock> but I can't pay for it
[05:41] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: please do - I use it
[05:42] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso: your probably 1 of my 6 total users ;)
[05:42] <tonyyarusso> Works very well, btw
[05:42] <imbrandon> heh
[05:42] <sistpoty> imbrandon: like l-r-m :P
[05:42] <LaserJock> I use reprepro
[05:42] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: haha, I'll have to make a point of recommending it then.
[05:42] <imbrandon> sistpoty: yea its testbuilding
[05:42] <sistpoty> :)
[05:42] <TheMuso> Is it possible to comment out package metadata in debian/control, or do you have to totally remove it?
[05:42] <StevenK> TheMuso: I *think* comments in debian/control work.
[05:42] <sistpoty> imbrandon: on what arch are you testbuilding? (as I've only tested it on amd64)
[05:43] <imbrandon> x86
[05:43] <imbrandon> my build server right now is a 3ghz core2
[05:43] <pwnguin> damnation. timestamp in future error on amd64
[05:44] <imbrandon> with 32bit etch and all pbuilders
[05:44] <sistpoty> cool, more test coverage (and the debdiff shouldn't really make anything fail)
[05:44] <LaserJock> hehe, I got a job offer from Google via linkedin today
[05:44] <LaserJock> silly people
[05:44] <imbrandon> lol
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: I got that when I tried to build things just uploaded seven time zones ahead of me...ended up just changing my clock for a few hours.
[05:45] <pwnguin> tonyyarusso: if it comes up again, i'll look into that -- i likely need to upload another version soon anyways
[05:45] <sistpoty> LaserJock: hm.. I worked on saving my own job by writing an research proposal today
[05:45] <LaserJock> cool
[05:45] <LaserJock> whaton?
[05:46] <sistpoty> (or rather the whole week already, and the week before and so on)
[05:46] <imbrandon> would be nice if google offered me a pos ;) wheres leslie when you need her ;)
[05:46] <LaserJock> I went to Sexual Harassment training today, so I could save my job ;-)
[05:46] <sistpoty> LaserJock: deterministic high-speed simulation of a virtual machine
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: The kind where they tell you you have to go now, or a general session?  ;)
[05:47] <ScottK> LaserJock: So you are an expert now?
[05:47] <LaserJock> general session
[05:47] <tonyyarusso> 'k
[05:47] <LaserJock> "Stop harassment NOW"
[05:47] <sistpoty> k, will do ;)
[05:47] <pwnguin> "dont package hotbabe"
[05:47] <LaserJock> it's great to know that my future students can accusme of darn near anything and my career is over ;-)
[05:48] <tonyyarusso> pretty much, yeah
[05:48] <tonyyarusso> but then you can just go into politics, where it's normal
[05:48] <nixternal> LaserJock: quit grabbing their butts and you won't get accused
[05:48] <pwnguin> i find it ridiculus that medibuntu carries hot-babe
[05:48] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: wait....that's a real package?
[05:48] <LaserJock> nixternal: me? never
[05:48] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: sure
[05:48] <nixternal> ya, that was convincing
[05:49] <LaserJock> nah, the chicks don't dig me
[05:49] <sistpoty> ha, I needed to test-write a test for the big lecture of our chair, and I hardly managed to not fail *g*
[05:49] <LaserJock> there's a guy down the hall that they all go for
[05:49] <LaserJock> our stalker didn't even go after me ;-)
[05:49] <imbrandon> i wonder how hard it will be to setup XP in a xen dom
[05:49] <imbrandon> hrm
[05:49] <tonyyarusso> oy, that is a very strange little program...
[05:49] <pwnguin> heh
[05:50] <tonyyarusso> I'll bet ubuntu-women are thrilled
[05:51] <pwnguin> its not in ubuntu
[05:51] <pwnguin> or debian
[05:51] <LaserJock> nixternal: all I gotta say is, just watch out for girls who say that they have an identical twin sister who's a sister
[05:51] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: I'm sure pornview is right up there too
[05:51] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Well, that has an odd name, but can actually be used for other things.
[05:52] <imbrandon> pr0nbuntu
[05:52] <LaserJock> nixternal: sorry, s/sister/stripper/ ;-)
[05:52] <bddebian> imbrandon: w00t, I'll help ya with that one
[05:52] <LaserJock> I always wondered why she always wore a short skirt to the research lab :/
[05:53] <sistpoty> like lesbian linux (I didn't write that, was merely a strange error of my keyboard) *G*
[05:53] <pwnguin> porn-get
[05:53] <imbrandon> apt-get update pron-collection
[05:53] <LaserJock> alright, now I'm sorry I started that one :-)
[05:53] <pwnguin> i wish i could find that webpage
[05:54] <bddebian> heh
[05:54] <imbrandon> sistpoty: http://www.lesbian.mine.nu/  ( based on debian )
[05:54] <nixternal> careful now with the stripper talk
[05:54] <imbrandon> even same logo
[05:54] <nixternal> I beat Mahjong Titans and the fireworks are going off!
[05:54] <imbrandon> pwnguin: http://www.lesbian.mine.nu/porn-get
[05:54] <pwnguin> yes
[05:54] <sistpoty> imbrandon: I know, but unfortunately it can only be viewed with opengl working *cough, cough* ;)
[05:55] <pwnguin> now imbrandon's in trouble with ubuntu-women
[05:55] <StevenK> LaserJock: You've got mail.
[05:55] <pwnguin> speaking of putting clothes on, did you see the shipping charges for canonical ubuntu tshirts?
[05:55] <nixternal> hahahahah
[05:55] <nixternal> ya, the shipping cost more than the shirt does
[05:56] <StevenK> Ouch.
[05:56] <StevenK> I wonder why that is.
[05:56] <pwnguin> probably because they dont have a warehouse in the US
[05:56] <nixternal> I am happy wearing my rpath, Foresight, Debian, Fedora Core, GPLv3, and GNU t-shirts...can't get a decent Ubuntu one
[05:56] <nixternal> err, almost forgot the most important ones...my KDE shirts
[05:57] <nixternal> hahahaha
[05:57] <StevenK> Canonical seems to not have anything in the US, aside from staff.
[05:57] <imbrandon> i have kubuntu ones and one "be nice to me, i know your password"
[05:57] <imbrandon> StevenK: they are smart
[05:57] <nixternal> the only funny one I have is "My other computer is yours"
[05:57] <TheMuso> StevenK: heh
[05:57] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: haha
[05:57] <LaserJock> I've got 2 decent Ubuntu shirts and a Google shirt
[05:58] <pwnguin> "My other computer is your Windows box"
[05:58] <imbrandon> heh i actualy have my google shirt on
[05:58] <nixternal> I gave my Google shirt from BarCamp to a homeless dude
[05:58] <TheMuso> I have a google shirt, and intel shirt, and an LCA07 shirt.
[05:58] <imbrandon> heh i actualy have my google shirt on
[05:58] <nixternal> one more time imbrandon
[05:58] <imbrandon> heh i actualy have my google shirt on
[05:58] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:58] <nixternal> ass
[05:58] <nixternal> I have my superman underoos on
[05:58] <nixternal> err, I mean my t-shirt
[05:58] <nixternal> ya, superman t-shirt
[05:59] <pwnguin> well, as long as #ubuntu-motu doesn't make bash.org, i think everything will be okay
[05:59] <LaserJock> StevenK: thank you very much sir
[05:59] <LaserJock> ouch
[05:59] <LaserJock> my eyes
[05:59] <StevenK> sistpoty: That is *far* too much information.
[05:59] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:59] <imbrandon> hahaha
[05:59] <LaserJock> sistpoty: think of the *eyes*!!!
[05:59] <LaserJock> ;-)
[05:59] <imbrandon> leaste his webcam doesnt work in ubuntu
[05:59] <imbrandon> or irc
[05:59] <LaserJock> hah
[05:59] <nixternal> I bought a Debian sticker from some website and donated the money to Debian, and 2 weeks later, there was a Debian t-shirt in my mail...I love free stuff
[05:59] <StevenK> If you're IRC'ing naked in front of -motu, you really need to rethink what you do on the Internet.
[06:00] <nixternal> Canonical has sent me some stuff this week though
[06:00] <Amaranth> arg
[06:00] <imbrandon> food time , bbiab
[06:00] <nixternal> 5 "The OpenCD"s, and a shitton of bright ass orange balloons
[06:00] <StevenK> LaserJock: Does that answer everything, and do you need a mugshot?
[06:00] <tonyyarusso> Wish I was important enough to get free stuff
[06:00] <StevenK> pwnguin: Microwave it
[06:00] <pwnguin> its cute
[06:00] <TheMuso> StevenK: lol
[06:00] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: the stuff I just got was for Software Freedom Day
[06:01] <pwnguin> but i dont think even ian murdock can save it
[06:01] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: HOW?  I submitted my name for one of those way back and it never came.
[06:01] <imbrandon> i got  few too
[06:01] <Amaranth> some guy keeps filing metacity->compiz and compiz integration bugs on stuff we got working 3 months ago, there is no way he has a working configuration
[06:01] <StevenK> I wish my /(2b|[^b] {2})/ shirt wasn't ripped.
[06:01] <imbrandon> speaking of i should update some packages in gnusolaris too soonish
[06:01] <nixternal> haha
[06:01] <pwnguin> tonyyarusso: they probably figured out it wont work on your hardware and saved you the trouble
[06:01] <nixternal> 2b or not 2b, that is the question!
[06:01] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: haha - that bad?
[06:02] <StevenK> I still want "Damnit Jim, I'm a sysadmin, not a babysitter!" shirt
[06:02] <nixternal> lol
[06:02] <pwnguin> basically, no wireless drivers
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> I'll be using Solaris machines for one of my classes this semester; might be good to know a thing or two.
[06:02] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: You poor guy.
[06:02] <pwnguin> little audio to speak for, and naturally no 3d
[06:02] <nixternal> imbrandon: one more time yet again :)
[06:02] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Get used to typing out the full path to GNU make
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: Well, at least I don't have to admin that one; just use it.  Gnome, so reasonably okay.
[06:02] <StevenK> And it isn't /usr/bin on Solaris
[06:03] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: Grep today's #ubuntu-devel log for solaris and enjoy.
[06:03] <LaserJock> StevenK: actually a mugshot would be nice
[06:03] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: .......can't I just add it to my personal $PATH ?
[06:03] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: Can you give me a timestamp?
[06:03] <StevenK> LaserJock: I don't have one that I want other people to see.
[06:03] <StevenK> LaserJock: Hold on.
[06:03] <LaserJock> I just don't want sistpoty's right now ;-)
[06:03] <tonyyarusso> My other classes involved both using and administering Windows XP Pro, Windows Server 2003, and Ubuntu.
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> (guess who will be answering lots of questions for that last one...)
[06:04] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: 16:37 UTC on my box.
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: 'k, thaks
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> !logs
[06:04] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[06:05] <LaserJock> none of my classes required computers at all
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> I'm in a computer program...seems obvious
[06:05] <LaserJock> oh wait, I did have one class where we had to write a BASIC program for data aquisition
[06:05] <StevenK> Ugh
[06:06] <LaserJock> we built a gieger counter
[06:06] <ScottK> When I was taking computer programming in a previous century I was the only person I knew that had my own PC at school.
[06:06] <imbrandon> i dont see any mention of Solaris in -devel in the logs
[06:07] <ScottK> This was lamont asking for a UVFe for git: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36758/
[06:08] <tonyyarusso> I found one mention
[06:09] <StevenK> Grah. It ran out of kernel memory.
[06:09] <ScottK> Main does seem to have a simpler UVFe process.  It appears to be show up on #ubuntu-devel and whine and cry until the RM relents.
[06:09] <StevenK> Or file one, and than have seb128 tell you to upload anyway.
[06:09] <imbrandon> most of mains processes are much simpler, MOTU land is turning to debian
[06:09] <StevenK> (gimp)
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> On the upside, it looks like seb has been looking over a fair number of universe things in NEW lately.
[06:10] <StevenK> imbrandon: Become a DD and *then* you can say that.
[06:11] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh i thought about it , but MOTU and -core-dev and gnusolaris-dev seem enough for now
[06:11] <imbrandon> might still somedday
[06:12] <nixternal> hell, the NM process over at Debian is actually tougher than becoming a core-dev I think
[06:12] <nixternal> kde4 beta 2 is poop in our repos btw
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> From tinyapps.org - '"How about BeOS, *nix, Amiga, QNX, etc?" Those who are comfortable using these operating systems need no such guide as this; clean, well-made software is the rule rather than the exception.'
[06:13] <ScottK> nixternal: Then fix it.
[06:13] <TheMuso> StevenK: UVFs via bugs aren't bad. I filed one last night, and it was approved.
[06:13] <TheMuso> Hey elkbuntu.
[06:13] <elkbuntu> heya :)
[06:13] <nixternal> ScottK: they were working on it and blogging about it heavily, and then that was the last I seen of it
[06:14] <nixternal> they send you like 3 or 4 emails pertaining to different sections of Debian...insane
[06:16] <LaserJock> uh oh
[06:16] <sistpoty> hm... /me is trying to sort out nicks by color of kvirc. Right now there is yellow background/dark letters: LaserJock, StevenK, elkbuntu. Would anyone of you mind changing the nick? :P
[06:17] <LaserJock> nixternal: what's up with beta2?
[06:17] <LaserJock> sistpoty: pffft, I didn't change my nick before because of you ;-)
[06:17] <StevenK> What LaserJock said.
[06:17] <sistpoty> hehe
[06:17] <sistpoty> damn, you beat me with my own arguments :P
[06:17] <LaserJock> MOTU dieties get to do that
[06:18] <bddebian> Grr, frickin openser
[06:18] <nixternal> plasma and the plasma widgets are hosed
[06:18] <StevenK> nixternal: Normal, isn't it?
[06:19] <ScottK> StevenK: For a binary that's NBS, do I file a removal bug, ping an archive admin to remove it, or just let it get automagically removed eventually?
[06:19] <StevenK> ScottK: Which binary?
[06:20] <nixternal> not from my svn checkout it isn't
[06:20] <StevenK> ScottK: There's a NBS page that I bug Mithrandir/pitti about.
[06:20] <ScottK> ttf-scheherazade.
[06:20] <ScottK> It got renamed because that name didn't follow some mysterious font package naming convention.
[06:21] <ScottK> As soon as I fire up dput it won't have any rdepends.
[06:21] <StevenK> ScottK: The binary will get NBS'd out when someone gets around to it.
[06:22] <ScottK> OK.  I won't sweat it then.
[06:22] <sistpoty> NBS?
[06:22] <TheMuso> not built from source
[06:22] <TheMuso> or something like htat
[06:22] <sistpoty> ah, another TLA learnt
[06:22] <ScottK> In this case the package got renamed and so the old binary doesn't get removed.
[06:23] <TheMuso> I find I neglect it too much.
[06:24] <sistpoty> ok, gotta go to bed right now. gn8 everyone
[06:24] <ScottK> TheMuso: Your neglecting is better than my paying attention.
[06:24] <TheMuso> sistpoty: Night.
[06:24] <ScottK> Good night sistpoty.
[06:24] <TheMuso> ScottK: How does that work?
[06:24] <bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
[06:24] <StevenK> TheMuso: Binary packages that aren't built anymore are not removed automatically.
[06:24] <ScottK> TheMuso: Even when you are "neglecting" UUS, I think you still do more with it than I do.
[06:25] <TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah I know that. I am referring to what ScottK said about my neglection being better than his paying attention.
[06:25] <TheMuso> ScottK: ah ok. :)
[06:40] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:10] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[07:13] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: If you get something tested where it's ready to be approved, give me a ping.
[07:13] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: what now?
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> Oh, no - not this time.  Just reading the ubuntu-archive ML.
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> I've added you to my mental list of such folks now though for when I do.
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> Backports are only version upgrades, not new packages, correct?
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> lol
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> Now if only I had as accurate of mental lists of where I set stuff down as I do of Ubuntu contacts, I'd be in a lot better shape.
[07:16] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: If it's in the developmental release (e.g. Gutsy right now) it can be backported as long as the dependencies are met even if it's NEW in that release.
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: oh, cool.
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> In that case maybe I should be looking into that.
[07:17] <ScottK> Yeah.  You should.
[07:18] <ScottK> It'd be good to be able to tell people to enable feisty-backports and install kompozer.
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> yeah, that would be a bit easier than my PPA.
[07:19] <ScottK> In the meantime, if you haven't, check and see if any dependencies need to be backported and work on those.
[07:20] <tonyyarusso> Sure thing.  Although, Kaze built it on what I think was just stock Dapper, so I doubt that will be an issue.
[09:12] <\sh> moins
[09:15] <tonyyarusso> hey \sh
[09:39] <\sh> hmm...is anyone using gajim on gutsy (clean install)?
[09:52] <\sh> bah...gajim: error in src/common/passwords.py, fixing
[10:42] <afflux> Hi! Is there any special reason why gnome-python-extras doesn't build the gksu2 module?
[11:03] <Zombie> Are you folks awre FeeDroid RPG 0.10.3 has been released?
[11:15] <asisak> Hey Ubunteros!
[11:15] <asisak> Whoopie_: can you help me regarding bug 137712?
[11:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137712 in xchat "Please backport xchat 2.8.4-ubuntu3 to feisty" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137712
[11:29] <geser> morning
[11:30] <\sh> hey geser
[11:31] <asisak> hey geser
[11:34] <geser> Hi \sh asisak
[11:34] <asisak> Guten morgen \sh
[11:35] <\sh> asisak, good morning :)
[11:37] <StevenK> Fujitsu: What's the list, I'll look at it in a few hours.
[11:38] <\sh> ha...another bug fixed
[11:38] <\sh> gajim is working with gnome-keyring again
[11:38] <Fujitsu> StevenK: There's no real list - I just noted several new on the debcheck unmet-on-all list, and they're all gimp ( << 2.3.19)
[11:38] <Fujitsu> \sh: That got fixed about 2 months ago for me.
[11:39] <\sh> Fujitsu, the patch wasn't applied in gutsy version
[11:39] <Fujitsu> Works for me, has for quite a while.
[11:39] <\sh> Fujitsu, http://trac.gajim.org/changeset/8701
[11:41] <\sh> Fujitsu, when I updated from feisty to gutsy, gajim works as expected ... installing gutsy from scratch gajim throws an gnomekeyring.DeniedError
[11:42] <Fujitsu> That is odd.
[11:42] <\sh> Fujitsu, did you upgrade or clean installed gutsy?
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Upgraded... through Edgy/Feisty/Gutsy, IIRC
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Maybe Dapper too, but I don't quite recall.
[11:43] <\sh> yeah...when there is already a default keyring for gajim, you saw other errors, but not when a default keyring for gajim is not available :)
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:44] <\sh> the problem is,clean install -> no default keyring -> gajim breaks
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Gah, why do people insist on filing several times more requests for new upstream versions after UVF than before?
[11:48] <DktrKranz> probably because they don't know what UVF is
[11:49] <\sh> Nafallo, ping
[11:49] <Nafallo> \sh: pong
[11:50] <\sh> Nafallo, please review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gajim/+bug/138225 :)
[11:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138225 in gajim "clean install of gutsy and gajim throws a gnomekeyring.DeniedError" [Undecided,New]
[11:51] <\sh> Nafallo, it will fix some more bugs
[11:52] <\sh> oh the other mentioned bugs, are coming from something else...not from changeset 8701
[11:56] <\sh> and somehow bug 129961 could be fixed as well with http://trac.gajim.org/changeset/8587 which could be same like on freebsd
[11:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129961 in gajim "cpu overload due to gajim" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129961
[12:03] <Fujitsu> DktrKranz: I accept that they probably don't, but the frequency seems to inevitably increase after UVF.
[12:04] <DktrKranz> Fujitsu, what about pointing them to the wiki page where we describe what UVF is?
[12:05] <DktrKranz> this way they can learn how the process is
[12:09] <DktrKranz> higher frequency could be related to the fact users expect we provide always newer versions.
[12:10] <DktrKranz> when they do not find them late in the development cycle, they submit a request to fill the hole
[12:10] <Fujitsu> True.
[12:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137560 in wine "Wine secure by default" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137560
[12:14] <\sh> Fujitsu, hehe...
[12:16] <\sh> Fujitsu, well, you can argue the very same thing for any other software != wine ,-)(
[12:20] <StevenK> Can someone remind me where debcheck runs, again?
[12:21] <DktrKranz> StevenK, http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck
[12:36] <asisak> Hey pochu!
[12:38] <pochu> howdy asisak :)
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> doko: I'm curious, what is this 'lpia' arch you added to mkelfimage's list of supported architectures?
[12:47] <pygi> Q-FUNK, Low Power On Intel
[12:49] <Q-FUNK> pygi: ok.  what sort of hardware does that run on usually?   debian has no trace of such port and ubuntu is hush as well.
[12:51] <pygi> Q-FUNK, perhaps classmate, and some mobile devices?
[12:51] <Nafallo> \sh: oki, will do when my laptop stabilized.
[12:53] <\sh> Nafallo, thx :)
[12:55] <geser> Q-FUNK: afaik it's used by the mobile edition of ubuntu
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> geser: fascinating.
[12:56] <geser> Q-FUNK: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/
[01:17] <Whoopie> asisak: Hi, could you again have a look at bug 137712?
[01:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137712 in xchat "Please backport xchat 2.8.4-ubuntu3 to feisty" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137712
[01:22] <\sh> hopefully fixed apertium to work with lttoolbox-2.0
[01:29] <Nafallo> \sh: never mind my pending comment
[01:30] <\sh> Nafallo, which comment?
[01:30] <Nafallo> \sh: the one that is trickling it's way throu the mailsystems :-P
[01:30] <\sh> lol
[01:32] <asisak> Whoopie: yes.
[01:32] <Nafallo> nafallo@centaur:~/devel/gajim/ubuntu $ bzr patch --strip=1 ../gajim_0.11.1-0ubuntu6.debdiff
[01:32] <asisak> Whoopie: I create another package update and ask you to test it before I upload. Is it okay for you?
[01:32] <Whoopie> asisak: yes, of course.
[01:33] <asisak> Whoopie: cool. I ping you if I have created to other package.
[01:33] <Whoopie> asisak: I'd remove the patch from debian/patches and add the changes directly to debian/rules. What do you think?
[01:33] <asisak> Whoopie: yes. You are absolutely right. I forgot that you can patch debian/ directly.
[01:35] <\sh> if someone has time, please check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apertium/+bug/138240 :)
[01:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138240 in apertium "apertium depends in liblttoolbox-1.0.0 which isn't in the archive anymore" [Undecided,New]
[01:35] <Whoopie> asisak: btw, the notify balloons sent by notify-send are not working all the time. e.g. your last messages didn't produce the ballons.
[01:35] <asisak> Whoopie: do you have libnotify-bin installed?
[01:35] <Whoopie> asisak: sure ;)
[01:36] <asisak> Yeah. It does not work.
[01:36] <Whoopie> sometimes, it works, but not always.
[01:36] <asisak> I don't know why, it had worked earlier today or yesterday
[01:36] <asisak> We should investigate this matter as well...
[01:36] <Whoopie> indeed.
[01:39] <Whoopie> asisak: I'm asking on #xchat
[01:39] <Nafallo> \sh: pushed
[01:40] <\sh> Nafallo, thx a lot, this error bugged me since one week now, since I installed a tribe on this desktop :)
[01:42] <Nafallo> \sh: waiting for #129961 before upload thou
[01:43] <\sh> Nafallo, did you try the fix for freebsd
[01:44] <Nafallo> \sh: no, I don't run freebsd :-P.
[01:44] <Nafallo> \sh: ...and my laptop had problems, so I rather not.
[01:44] <\sh> Nafallo, I'll give it a shot...
[01:45] <Nafallo> \sh: cheers
[01:47] <\sh> Nafallo, adding the 56 to the line, (regarding http://trac.gajim.org/changeset/8587) my cpu is just increasing to 30%
[01:47] <\sh> and then falls back to 0.1
[01:48] <Nafallo> \sh: increasing would be the reverse of what we want ;-)
[01:48] <\sh> Nafallo, the problem is the reporter has an high of 100% during startup
[01:48] <Nafallo> \sh: might want to poke upstream about that if they'll put it in .2
[01:48] <Nafallo> \sh: yea, I know
[01:49] <Whoopie> asisak: test for xchat ;)
[01:49] <\sh> Nafallo, well, without the line it also only on 30%
[01:50] <Nafallo> \sh: so you're telling me it's not an increase? :-)
[01:51] <asisak> Whoopie: yes. It does not work now. But it did work some time ago :(
[01:51] <Nafallo> \sh: ah. your laptop is doing 30% regardless...
[01:51] <Whoopie> asisak: now, it worked here.
[01:51] <Whoopie> asisak: was -motu your active channel?
[01:51] <asisak> Whoopie: yes. This time it works.
[01:51] <\sh> Nafallo, sorry, increase was the wrong word..the cpu load is at 30% in both cases...and drops to 0
[01:51] <asisak> Whoopie: It is my active channel but I switched to another virtual desktop
[01:52] <asisak> Whoopie: maybe it is intentional. You don't need balloons if you have the window before you anyway.
[01:52] <Whoopie> asisak: ah, I think, you must be in another channel to get it working.
[01:52] <Nafallo> \sh: oki. no problem. I'll wait with the patch until I know it actually fixes something then :-P
[01:52] <asisak> Whoopie: no. It is enough to switch virtual desktop.
[01:53] <Whoopie> asisak: ok, so the conclusion is that you must be somehow "away" from the channel. ;)
[01:53] <asisak> Whoopie: yes. That is what I said: "maybe it is intentional. You don't need balloons if you have the window before you anyway."
[01:54] <Whoopie> asisak: you're absolutely right.
[01:54] <\sh> Nafallo, is there a bug report for upstream?
[01:55] <Nafallo> \sh: no idea.
[01:56] <\sh> Nafallo, and who confirmed it?
[01:56] <\sh> oh it was you ;)
[01:56] <Nafallo> :-P
[01:57] <asisak> Whoopie: on the other hand I don't understand why the fix does not work. The patch is included 00list
[01:57] <Nafallo> \sh: I saw a short burst of about ~39%
[01:58] <Nafallo> \sh: that might not be what the means thou...
[01:58] <\sh> Nafallo, yeah...
[01:59] <\sh> well, it could be as well another bug, which comes from compiz or xorg or whatever
[01:59] <\sh> Nafallo, he has really 92% cpu load..which I can't reproduce
[02:01] <Whoopie> asisak: oh, right.
[02:01] <asisak> Whoopie: so what do you think, what is the problem?
[02:01] <Nafallo> \sh: I added som comments and put it as incomplete.
[02:03] <Whoopie> asisak: let me to do some tests here.
[02:04] <asisak> Whoopie: okay :)
[02:05] <asisak> Some suggest we need to run autoconf again, but since you patch configure this should not be the case
[02:05] <Whoopie> asisak: if you compile it, and open /usr/bin/xchat with vi, you see the ${prefix}/share
[02:05] <asisak> I mean you change configure parameters
[02:06] <asisak> Yes, you can.
[02:06] <\sh> cu later
[02:08] <asisak> Whoopie: is this a problem? :)
[02:08] <Whoopie> asisak: hehe
[02:09] <asisak> Isn't that a dash / bash issue?
[02:10] <Whoopie> asisak: nevertheless, it works if you change debian/rules directly. ;)
[02:12] <asisak> Whoopie: please test http://www.inf.bme.hu/~aron/ubuntu/xchat_2.8.4-0ubuntu4.dsc
[02:12] <Whoopie> asisak: I think the patch is too late. debian/rules is already executed.
[02:12] <asisak> Whoopie: sure. You are right.
[02:13] <Whoopie> asisak: dget http://www.inf.bme.hu/~aron/ubuntu/xchat_2.8.4-0ubuntu4.dsc ?
[02:13] <Whoopie> asisak: the orig tarball is missing.
[02:13] <asisak> Whoopie: apt-get source xchat ; dget -x http://www.inf.bme.hu/~aron/ubuntu/xchat_2.8.4-0ubuntu4.dsc
[02:14] <asisak> Whoopie: sure. But you have to delete the dir before dget
[02:14] <asisak> (so that 0ubuntu4 gets extracted)
[02:14] <Whoopie> asisak: ok, building.
[02:16] <Whoopie> asisak: looks great.
[02:18] <asisak> Whoopie: Do you think it got fixed now?
[02:19] <Whoopie> asisak: yes
[02:20] <asisak> dpkg is *so* slow...
[02:20] <Whoopie> hehe
[02:21] <Whoopie> asisak: the only thing we need to check is the configure line. If --datadir is missing, it won't work. if it's there, it will work.
[02:21] <coNP> Whoopie: sure. But I like to test apps :)
[02:23] <bluefoxicy> this is awesome.  XP runs faster with -no-kvm
[02:23] <asisak> white: We can ask for a backport again, if it has been accepted to gutsy.
[02:23] <asisak> Sorry, s/white/Whoopie/
[02:27] <Whoopie> asisak: ok, thanks.
[02:30] <asisak> Whoopie: do you have a feisty system to test it?
[02:33] <Whoopie> asisak: yes, my laptop runs feisty. gutsy is just a vmware.
[02:37] <asisak> Oh, that is cool.
[02:39] <Whoopie> asisak: bug 108485
[02:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 108485 in xchat "no highlight on new private messages" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108485
[02:39] <Whoopie> asisak: do you know which version he runs?
[02:40] <asisak> Feisty. But he does not specified the exact version
[02:41] <asisak> See you later.
[02:42] <asisak> Gotta go now.
[02:45] <Whoopie> asisak: cul
[04:23] <zul> do do do
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> zul
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> will Ubuntu ever have good Xen integration?
[04:24] <zul> its a work in progess besides im the only working on it
[04:24] <bluefoxicy> mmm.
[04:25] <zul> if you want to help out then that would be great
[04:25] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: oh, just let me wave my magic wand and fix it all...
[04:26] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  you're not just a girl, but a witch?
[04:26] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: green alien.  and a witch.
[04:26] <Hobbsee> with a Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:26] <bluefoxicy> ... oh, green.  Liking this a little less.
[04:26] <effie_jayx> bluefoxicy,  be afraid...
[04:26] <pygi> Hobbsee, calm down
[04:26] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: were you supposed to like it in the first place?
[04:27] <Hobbsee> bad pygi!  no cookie for flooding planet!
[04:27] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: do I get a cookie? :-)
[04:27] <pygi> Hobbsee, what planet? o.O
[04:27] <Hobbsee> pygi: planet ubuntu, or my reader may be on crack
[04:27] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  I think I was supposed to own it, but I'm behind on my labs.  :>
[04:28] <pygi> Hobbsee, ah, I didn't do that :P
[04:28] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: right then
[05:41] <ScottK> man-di: The latest eclipse from Debian (3.2.2-3) still FTBFS in a Gutsy pbuilder (i386).  Any clues why?
[05:41] <StevenK> ScottK: What's the error?
[05:41] <ScottK> Just a sec.
[05:41] <StevenK> Fujitsu: gimp uninstability should be sorted now-ish
[05:42] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Well, things depending on libgimp2.0 (<< 2.3.19)
[05:43] <ScottK2> StevenK: The first error is      [exec]  xpcom.h:17:21: error: nsXPCOM.h: No such file or directory
[05:43] <ScottK2> I left it to build overnight and went to bed and am just looking at it for the first time.
[05:48] <StevenK> ScottK2: Okay, does it Build-Depends on firefox-dev, and include /usr/include/firefox in it's search path?
[05:54] <ScottK2> No it doesn't.  The odd part is that shortly before the error it says:
[05:54] <ScottK2>      [exec]  Mozilla/XPCOM libraries not found:
[05:54] <ScottK2>      [exec]      *** Mozilla embedding support will not be compiled.
[05:54] <StevenK> Heh
[05:55] <StevenK> That's ... curious
[05:56] <StevenK> Actually, just thinking about it, it should probably use libxul-dev, but I think xulrunner Conflicts with firefox
[06:01] <ScottK2> It does have a build-dep on libxul-dev
[06:01] <StevenK> usr/include/xulrunner/nsXPCOM.h
[06:02] <StevenK> Maybe it isn't searching there
[06:02] <ScottK2> Hmmm
[06:20] <ScottK2> Well there's some tricky stuff in debian/rules about which browser to build-dep on.
[06:23] <ScottK2> StevenK: Does this look right to you: DISTRIBUTION := $(shell lsb_release -is)
[06:42] <azeem> is the Maintainer: getting set to Ubuntu for simple rebuilds of Debian sources as well, or just when we change the source?
[06:42] <asisak> thanks ScottK2
[06:43] <asisak> I was even going to ask you to confirm the backport again :)
[06:43] <geser> azeem: for -XbuildY the maintainer in the source package doesn't change, the maintainer for the binary packages is changed during build
[06:43] <azeem> geser: ah, makes sense
[06:44] <azeem> thx
[07:13] <Whoopie> asisak: xchat works fine now on gutsy.
[07:13] <asisak> Whoopie: cool :)
[07:14] <asisak> Backport has been approved as well
[07:14] <asisak> Or at least acknowledged
[07:14] <ScottK> No we just wait for an archive admin to get to it.
[07:14] <ScottK> No/Now
[07:15] <asisak> Yeah
[07:23] <eck> is it appropriate to submit package requests as bugs in LP?
[07:24] <ScottK> eck: Do you mean requesting something be packaged?
[07:24] <tonyyarusso> eck: yes, you give them a needs-packaging tag
[07:24] <eck> ok, thanks
[07:25] <ScottK> Don't attach a proposed package there though, just some basic information about where to find it, how it's licensed, and what it does.
[07:27] <ScottK> doko: Would you please add me as an admin to the pythonistas team.  I'm no longer able to add the team as bug contact for universe Python packages as I find them.
[07:48] <ScottK> siretart: I just acked your cryptsetup UVFe.
[07:53] <tonyyarusso> Speaking of crypt-related stuff, does Gutsy have encrypted partitions capability right in the installer?  (Alternate CD only)  I had heard a while back that the current version of d-i includes this.
[08:01] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: cryptsetup is in Universe, so I'm sure if it's there it's not using that.
[08:02] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: 'k
[08:02] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: dm-crypt, http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2006/20060811
[08:03] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/39326, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dm-crypt
[08:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 39326 in debian-installer "installer: dm-crypt support missing" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[08:08] <man-di> ScottK: in Ubuntu eclipse should B-D on firefox-dev
[08:09] <man-di> ScottK: when I last requested a merge I added a debdiff for a re-generated debian/control file
[08:09] <man-di> ScottK: thats the only difference between Debian and Ubuntu fo eclipse: the debian/control need to be regenerated
[08:09] <ScottK> man-di: I am trying that right now.  The machine I have gutsy on is old and slow.
[08:10] <man-di> ScottK: that can ve done by: touch debian/control.in ; debian/rules debian/control
[08:10] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.  That's a cleaner approach than I took.  Thanks.
[08:10] <man-di> ScottK: I have no Gutsy yet on my new machine
[08:11] <man-di> my machine builds it in about 15 minutes
[09:12] <ScottK2> man-di: My attempt to build eclipse by hard coding stuff in failed with this error that may be worth someone who knows something about Java looking into: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/36814/
[09:12] <ScottK2> I'm going to try it your way (touch ... and regenerate) now.
[09:28] <aantn> does anyone know what dev package has header files with the definition `PyImport_ImportModule'?
[09:29] <aantn> I'm getting a compile error
[09:29] <ScottK> aantn: What's the context of your question?  What problem are you trying to solve?
[09:29] <aantn> undefined reference to `PyImport_ImportModule'
[09:29] <ScottK> What package?
[09:29] <aantn> awn
[09:30] <Amaranth> aantn: that'd be python-all-dev
[09:30] <aantn> Amaranth: thank you
[09:30] <aantn> Amaranth: I think you understand my frustration :)
[09:31] <ScottK> If the package doesn't require a build-dep on python itself, there is also python-dev.
[09:31] <ScottK> python-all-dev covers both.
[09:32] <aantn> python-dev doesn't work
[09:34] <aantn> is there a way to get pbuilder to resume from where it left off after an error?
[09:34] <aantn> so that it doesn't have to check all of the dependencies that it already checked
[09:35] <Lamego> I prefer schroot/dchroot because of their extra debug facilities
[09:37] <ScottK> aantn: The point of pbuilder is to start each build with a clean environment.  There is an option not to logout at the end that may work for you.
[09:39] <broonie> You can also use hooks to drop you to a shell at various points.
[09:39] <aantn> ScottK: and whats that?
[09:40] <aantn> because in this particular case it would be useful
[09:40] <ScottK> I don't recall the exact syntax, but it's described in man pbuilder.
[09:41] <aantn> kk
[09:41] <aantn> b/c nothing has changes since I last ran it
[09:41] <aantn> except that I fixed a build dep
[09:44] <man-di> ScottK: your error looks totally unrelated to my stuff
[09:45] <ScottK> man-di: OK.
[09:45] <man-di> ScottK: how much memory is free on your machine?
[09:45] <ScottK> Not a lot.
[09:45] <man-di> eclipse needs more then 1 GB normally
[09:45] <ScottK> OK.  That would explain it.
[09:45] <davromaniak> good evening
[09:45] <ScottK> My machine doesn't have that.
[09:45] <davromaniak> any motu can take a look at bug #138017 please ??
[09:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138017 in ubuntu "New Package Freeze Exception needed for qtpfsgui" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138017
[09:46] <ScottK> davromaniak: You don't need 'any motu' you need someone other than me who's in motu-uvf since I already ack'ed it.
[09:47] <davromaniak> ok
[09:48] <aantn> Amaranth: it didn't help
[09:48] <aantn> I still get the error
[09:49] <aantn> .libs/awn_la-awnmodule.o: In function `initawn':
[09:49] <aantn> /tmp/buildd/avant-window-navigator-bzr-0.1.2-bzr94-0/pyawn/awnmodule.c:32: undefined reference to `PyImport_ImportModule'
[09:56] <siretart> ScottK: oh, we need only one ACK for UVF for now?
[10:01] <siretart> ScottK: any reason you didn't set the bug to confirmed?
[10:22] <man-di> ScottK: according to your paste your kernel OOM killer did its job because the build process used too much resouces
[10:23] <bszmyd> can someone briefly explain the purpose of an "interdiff" i've seen mentioned?
[10:32] <Amaranth> aantn: linker error
[10:32] <aantn> Amaranth: ?
[10:32] <aantn> meaning?
[10:32] <Amaranth> awn is t3h b0rk3n ;)
[10:33] <aantn> yet no one else seems to have this problem
[10:33] <aantn> as far as I know
[10:34] <aantn> everyone else can compile successfully
[10:34] <aantn> and so can I when I'm not building packages
[10:34] <aantn> I can compile it fine
[10:35] <aantn> but as soon as I try to build a package with pbuilder then it stops working
[10:36] <aantn> Amaranth: any ideas?
[10:37] <ScottK> siretart: I didn't set it to confirmed because it's still two AFAIK.
[10:37] <ScottK> man-di: That fits with what you said about 1GB.  I'll find another machine to build it on.  Thanks.
[10:43] <siretart> ScottK: aah, I see
[11:56] <pwnguin> is there a better way to set up a new pam module for use than applying sed to common-auth?
[12:07] <geser> pwnguin: you mustn't change any file from any other package
[12:14] <JDahl> I need gcc-4.3 for some bugfixes to OpenMP in gcc4.2, and I found these gutsy packages: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain/+archive  Do I need to alter /etc/apt/sources.list to fetch those packages,  or will they be included in regular Gutsy?
[12:15] <siretart> JDahl: to fetch those package, you need to add that archive to your sources.list
[12:15] <siretart> JDahl: for your 2nd question, you should ask members of the ubuntu-toolchain team for that
[12:19] <pygi> siretart, what happened with cdrtools upload?
[12:24] <siretart> pygi: still sitting in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
[12:25] <JDahl> out of curiosity:  are such "teams" just SIGs,  or are they affiliated with Canonical?
[12:25] <siretart> SIGs?
[12:25] <JDahl> special-interest-group
[12:25] <siretart> ah
[12:25] <JDahl> (maybe python lingo)
[12:26] <siretart> well, depends. canonical pays core developers to work on critical parts of ubuntu
[12:26] <siretart> like, well, the toolchain :)
[12:30] <LaserJock> hi siretart
[12:30] <LaserJock> oh boy, are we talking about dholbach?
[12:34] <siretart> hi LaserJock
[12:34] <siretart> nah, rather doko


[15:58] <GrueMaster> cjwatson: How long do I have to test lp:1180880?  I will be building new systems for shipping later this week, and will be able to test it then, but I am busy with other tasks for the next few days.
[15:58] <cjwatson> Oh, I expect it would be weeks before anyone started prodding you
[15:59] <GrueMaster> It was pushed to proposed on Friday.
[16:00] <GrueMaster> In my former job, I would have tested it within hours of hitting proposed, but the new job has different priorities.  :P
[16:00] <cjwatson> If you want to not end up blocking anyone, then "this week"
[16:00] <cjwatson> (Assuming the other bugs fixed by the same upload get tested)
[16:01] <GrueMaster> Excellent.  I do have some systems to build later this week (Wed or Thu), so planned on testing it then.
[16:01] <cjwatson> Thanks
[17:25] <bdmurray> xnox: could you have a look at bug 1186735?
[17:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1186735 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "disappointing installation crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186735
[17:26] <bdmurray> From what I can tell it looks like the installer fails to get some information from the archive but carries on with the install and then crashes
[17:28] <bdmurray> I found some similar ones too like bug 1186651 and bug 1186637
[17:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1186651 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "13.04 install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186651
[17:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1186637 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "eu nao consegui instalr deu erro " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186637
[17:31] <xnox> bdmurray: your analysis looks correct. It did download sources/packages/translations, but they were all invalid (I am guessing captive WiFi portal?! or proxy redirect/login page), which resulted in invalid apt-cache status on disk, which blows up later.
[17:32] <bdmurray> xnox: I see some unable to connects - Unable to connect to gb.archive.ubuntu.com:http: [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[17:33] <xnox> well, if the cache is invalid (regardless how we got there), we should just copy the valid one from the cdimage (i hope we have one there).
[17:35] <bdmurray> xnox: is there already a bug tracking that?
[19:24] <superm1> can you do a test once they input the wifi network to see if they're in a captive portal/proxy and spawn out a gtk webkit or FF in that scenario?
[21:22] <xnox> superm1: we already do of the sorts test. We check the md5sum of the http://start.ubuntu.com/connectivity-check.html
[21:22] <xnox> and if that doesn't match, we assume we do not have internet connectvity.
[21:22] <superm1> ah
[21:23] <xnox> superm1: mpt did create a design of how the captive portals should work & auto-popup for sign-in, but that was not implement yet on any of the platforms (installer, desktop, touch...)
[21:24] <xnox> superm1: but one can launch a browser to login and that should make "internet" available. but it's not easily discoverable.