[06:35] <TomTom> Good morning. Does anybody knows a widget which can show the calendar including the "day of year"?
[09:06] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:13] <Ermine> Somewhy alt-shift toggles scroll lock and scroll lock button doesn't
[12:42] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:06] <obsitos> hi all! I have experienced some issue with a dual display setup in KDE beta. The main shows the desktop background and i can place some widgets, but on the second display I can't. I'm not sure about is this a configuration issue or a real bug.
[15:06] <obsitos> Could somebody help me?
[17:46] <TheGuestMoview4> Hi. How can I add an OpenVPN connection in Kubuntu?  I have network issues which is preventing most websites from loading. I got an .ovpn OpenVPN client profile file so I could send my traffic through a VPN. In Ubuntu, Gnome's network manager has a "Import OpenVPN configuration file" option, but I don't see anything like that in Kubuntu.
[17:46] <TheGuestMoview4> and it's hard to google because most sites (including askubuntu) are blocked
[17:48] <TheGuestMoview4> oops, nevermind, there was an option to import c onfiguration at the bottom, I didnt see it because I had to scroll doiwn
[18:01] <obsitos> as far as i know you have to install an openvpn plugin for the network manager
[18:13] <TheGuestMoview4> obsitos: do you know the name? I found one called network-manager-openvpn-gnome but I imagine that's for Gnome
[18:14] <TheGuestMoview4> indeed I'm missing a plugin to be able to import the config file
[18:39] <obsitos> TheGuestMoview4: network-manager-openvpn
[18:39] <obsitos> and/or (i'm not sure): network-manager-openconnect
 hello everyone i just installed pop!OS yesterday
[19:29] <oerheks> hello Jeff, install Kubuntu today!
 Guys whatsapp and instagram are not working for you too?
[22:32] <oerheks> erfan_sta ask https://downdetector.com/
 Thanks


[02:00] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Sean Davis: Parole Media Player 1.0.2 Released @ https://bluesabre.org/2019/04/04/parole-media-player-1-0-2-released/
[02:21] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, hello, did you get the email about the two new ubuntu members?
[02:23] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: No ! .. Have not checked my mail since early this AM .. looking now :)
[02:25] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: No, I did not receive any new notifications :(
[02:25] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, did you get added to the team?
[02:26] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Yup .. krytarik did take care that I am now a recognized member.
[02:26] <Wild_Man> okay, I think I have your email if I do I will forward it to you
[02:28] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I just sent it
[02:28] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: K - will look :)
[02:29] <Wild_Man> Thanks, I am out of town again this time with my wife so my time is very limited or I would add it myself
[02:33] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: I take care of it - Do we have a https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/ release of the added members ?
[02:35] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Yup .. I got it ( the listing) :)
[02:35] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I did not think we have one, you found one?
[02:36] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2019-April/002847.html .
[02:36] <Wild_Man> Yes, from our list we do
[02:37] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Will serve for a source in UWN. no ?
[02:38] <Wild_Man> I think it will do
[02:41] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, this is how we did it last time for reference if you need or want it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue569
[03:01] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, looks like Chris already added it
[03:02] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Chris is hot :P
[03:03] <Wild_Man> Indeed!
[03:04] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, he did not include the source
[03:09] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: K - I fix in the morrow --- winding down for beddy bye here (maybe).
[03:10] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I added the link
[03:28] <krytarik> Bashing-om: Since the last time this came up and I checked, you didn't subscribe to the team mailing list yet still, did you? >_<
[03:29] <krytarik> ..Wait a minute, you can't send mails to there either then though - but you definitely are!  So just disabled getting any or another email address you didn't check?
[03:32] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Beats me .. I will have to have a deep look at what I am subscribed to - and no I have not blocked any.
[03:50] <krytarik> Bashing-om<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- oh, this is why you can send mails to the team list while you aren't subscribed to it - and I just checked that again.
[03:54] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Lemme see if I can stretch my tired brain and look at "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Join" .
[04:06] <Bashing-om> krytarik: See how that works out ., subscribed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-news-team .
[04:09] <krytarik> Bashing-om: It'd seem you need to confirm it still though.
[04:11] <Bashing-om> krytarik: I expect to have to do the confirmation from a received E-mail, waiting .
[05:38] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Google Chrome 73.0.3683.103 Released for Linux, Windows, and Mac @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/google-chrome-73-0-3683-103-released-for-linux-windows-and-mac-525569.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)


[00:31] <LinDol> hi all
[05:25] <lindol> hi all
[08:17] <ricotz> darkxst, hi, I would assume gnome-music needs a gtk+ bump too
[08:47] <darkxst> ricotz, possibly, though upstream haven't bumped it
[08:48] <darkxst> though I suppose with css nodes, most apps will need a bump on gtk
[08:49] <ricotz> I am more thinking about runtime-gir-deps since this is python
[08:49] <ricotz> (the css stuff should not be fatal)
[08:57] <darkxst> ricotz, yeh true and can't hurt
[09:00] <darkxst> btw I still haven't updated any Vcs-bzr tags, but packaging branches are up for most of the bits I have uploaded
[09:00] <darkxst> Vcs-git even
[09:01] <darkxst> you could just push fixes there ;)
[09:03] <darkxst> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-gnome/ubuntu/
[09:09] <darkxst> ricotz, I'm  still to finish off the grilo-0.3 transition
[09:19] <ricotz> darkxst, alright
[10:14] <raulgrangeiro> hello, guys!
[10:15] <darkxst> hi raulgrangeiro
[10:15] <raulgrangeiro> I would like to share a solution I had yesterday
[10:15] <darkxst> ok
[10:17] <raulgrangeiro> Some days ago I was needing to use Office 2010 on Ubuntu Gnome 15.10, but I couldn't use accents. It was told me to change the input method from ibus to none, but it doesn't work on Ubuntu Gnome, so the solution is just removing ibus.
[10:17] <raulgrangeiro> Just do "sudo apt-get remove ibus" on the terminal and then reboot the PC.
[10:18] <darkxst> raulgrangeiro, that doesn't seem like the best solution, pretty sure gnome-shell depends on ibus
[10:18] <darkxst> though I don't follow input stuff to closely
[10:19] <raulgrangeiro> It works on Gnome and probably any system that has this kind of problem.
[10:19] <darkxst> some use languages prefer fcitx instead  of ibus
[10:19] <raulgrangeiro> do you know another solution?
[10:20] <darkxst> gnome depends on ibus, remove ibus and possibly get "undefined" behaviour
[10:20] <raulgrangeiro> what kind of stuff needs ibus?
[10:20] <darkxst> anything dealing with keyboard layouts and input
[10:20] <darkxst> so fairly core GNOME components
[10:21] <raulgrangeiro> well, I did that, but my keyboard is working perfectly. Do you think I'll have problem for doing this?
[10:21] <darkxst> raulgrangeiro, more likely you have a bug in wine, that should be fixed
[10:21] <darkxst> well reported atleast
[10:23] <darkxst> raulgrangeiro, if you are using en-US keyboard probably won't affect you, but removing ibus is not the solution
[10:23] <raulgrangeiro> Yes, it is, but nobody has fixed until now, so I found this solution and it worked without problems for me, because this I came here to share.
[10:23] <darkxst> raulgrangeiro, file a bug report!
[10:23] <raulgrangeiro> I'm brazilian, I use ABNT 2 layout.
[10:24] <raulgrangeiro> Ok, I'll do it, bu for now I won't install ibus, because I really need Excel 2010 for work, so I'll report the bug, and then wait for the fix.
[10:26] <raulgrangeiro> So, this solution worked for me, and if anyone needs to work with Office 2010 seuggest this. If the person have problem is just install ibus again.
[10:27] <darkxst> maybe not many people use office 2010 on Ubuntu GNOME
[10:27] <darkxst> though it shouldnt be any different from standard Ubuntu
[10:27] <raulgrangeiro> truth. Well, I just wanna help.  Bye!
[10:28] <darkxst> raulgrangeiro, thanks bye
[10:34] <darkxst> ricotz, shouldnt your nautilus upload go into xenial proper?
[10:38] <darkxst> ricotz, in which case you could have just pinged me to sponsor
[11:11] <ricotz> darkxst, it should, feel free to do if you are comfortable with it, the changelog is just missing "Refresh patches as needed"
[11:12] <ricotz> gnome3-team/gnome3 also has gtk+ 3.18.7 (with a tweaked symbols-check-level in rules)
[16:36] <MGhz> hi
[16:37] <MGhz> where i can have the list off all shortcuts for gnome3 ?
[16:38] <x-Na> https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/KeyboardShortcuts
[17:07] <MGhz> x-Na, thank
[20:13] <lk82> hi
[20:13] <lk82> i'm looking for help with ubuntu gnome
[22:33] <raulgrangeiro> hy guys
[22:33] <raulgrangeiro> hi
[22:33] <raulgrangeiro> I need your help for something. Could you help me?
[22:34] <raulgrangeiro> is someone avaliable?
[22:37] <raulgrangeiro> ok. sorry for the inconvenience =\
[22:37] <raulgrangeiro> bye.


[18:53] <snail> mōrena
[19:22] <Atamira> morning
[19:27] <ajmitch> morning
[19:39] <codepal> morning
[20:06] <mwhudson> morning
[20:22] <ibeardslee> mutter mutter
[20:23] <ajmitch> not a great day up there?
[20:25] <ibeardslee> had a mutter grumble day at work yesterday
[20:26] <ibeardslee> so left early to discover that there was water drippingout of my window frame
[20:28] <ajmitch> window frame at work or home?
[20:31] <ibeardslee> at home
[20:32] <ibeardslee> leak in the a pipe in the kitche ceiling
[20:33] <ibeardslee> so spending today planning bringing the other 1/2 of the house's renovations forward.
[20:33] <ibeardslee> renovations/rot removal
[20:47] <snail> ibeardslee: sounds expensive
[20:47] <snail> ibeardslee: is it a leaky home?
[20:50] <ibeardslee> early 1980s .. so not officially
[20:52] <ibeardslee> snail: the first half of the house was quite expensive, this last part has the kitchen and upstairs bathroom on it
[20:53] <ibeardslee> so I'm expecting worse
[20:53] <snail> oh, ok
[20:54] <snail> we went early 1970s, so it's built like a brick dunny, but completely uninsulated.
[20:54] <snail> oh, and it's moving down-hill at about 1mm/year
[22:28] <hads> Bathrooms are expensive.
[23:08] <G> hads: hey masive thanks for doing that special order for me the other month, finally got everything put in and it works great
[23:09] <G> that said, those gelfilled connectors that Chorus use are messy little things :)
[23:25] <ibeardslee> hads .. yes they can be
[23:35] <hads> G: Great, glad I helped. They are messy little thingies aren't they.
[23:36] <hads> ibeardslee: We finished our in December, only 3k over budget :)
[23:36] <G> hads: didn't help that I had to redo it a couple of times
[23:49] <ibeardslee> hads: nooo .. not what I want to hear
[23:49] <ibeardslee> why over budget?


[07:01] <Zam> hi!
[07:21] <microcai> ...
[10:08] <ElectricPrism> What's the Difference between LaunchPad and GitHub?
[10:08] <tsimpson> lots ;)
[10:09] <ElectricPrism> cool
[10:09] <tsimpson> Launchpad is more geared towards project management, GitHub is mostly code hosting
[10:09] <tsimpson> that, and and LP uses Bzr rather than Git
[10:09] <ElectricPrism> Ah
[10:10] <ElectricPrism> I'm writing a PHP Application Framework, would it be logical for me to choose one of these services or neither?
[10:11] <ElectricPrism> It's mainly in PHP, MySQL5, CSS3, JavaScript...etc
[10:12] <tsimpson> it's up to you really, have a look at https://launchpad.net/+tour to see what things you can do in LP
[10:12] <ElectricPrism> ok awsome thanks
[10:12] <tsimpson> if you mostly just want code hosting, then either would work fine
[14:31] <coffeedude> deryck, morning.
[14:31] <deryck> coffeedude: morning, bro
[17:30] <dvdk> hi, have a question about upload.ubuntu.com
[17:31] <dvdk> accidentally uploaded a *proprietary* in-house package there (my dput was misconfigured)
[17:31] <dvdk> told me it was denied.  still, would like to be sure, that a copy of the package is not retained in incoming
[17:39] <jelkner> Is this an appropriate channel for asking a question about renaming  a project and a bzr branch contained within it?
[17:46] <jelmer> jelkner, hi
[17:48] <jelkner> jelmer, hi
[17:48] <jelmer> jelkner: Please ask a question in http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad about having the project renamed.
[17:49] <jelkner> i will
[17:49] <jelkner> but i was hoping to get help formulating the question
[17:49] <jelkner> i'm not exactly sure what to ask for
[17:50] <jelkner> basically, we have a series of tutorials we want to translate into spanish
[17:50] <jelmer> jelkner, Ask for a project to be renamed and mention the old project name and the new project name, as well as your relation to the project.
[17:50] <jelkner> ok
[17:50] <jelkner> thanks
[18:35] <CarlFK> /bin/sh: python2.6: not found - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71593226/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.dvsmon_1.1-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:36] <CarlFK> Build-Depends: cdbs (>= 0.4.49), debhelper (>= 5.0.38), python-central (>= 0.6.0), python (>= 2.4)
[18:36] <CarlFK> what is specifying 2.6?
[18:38] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/wy3i/  debian/control
[18:48] <Ampelbein> CarlFK: from your pasted log: "set -e; for buildver in 2.6 2.7; do \"
[18:48] <Ampelbein> CarlFK: probably in debian/rules
[18:49] <CarlFK> rules...  include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk  include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk
[18:49] <CarlFK> hmm.
[18:52] <maxb> CarlFK: I'd guess you're missing Build-Depends: python-all-dev
[18:52] <CarlFK> maxb: k - seems harmless :)
[18:53] <CarlFK> should I pull python (>= 2.4) ?
[18:53] <maxb> pull?
[18:54] <CarlFK> remove it from Build-Depends
[18:54] <maxb> Yes
[18:55] <maxb> What Ubuntu series are you targetting with this?
[18:55] <CarlFK> natty
[18:56] <maxb> Only?
[18:56] <CarlFK> kinda.  might do maverick too.  I am 90% of the user base
[18:56] <maxb> k
[18:56] <maxb> If it was natty only, I'd say it's time to stop using python-central
[18:57] <maxb> In any case, you should remove python (>= 2.5) from your binary package dependencies, and include ${python:Depends}
[19:05] <CarlFK> heh - my fresh natty install is broken.  falling back to mav...
[19:19] <CarlFK> "[PPA carlfk] [ubuntu/maverick] dvsmon 1.1-2ubuntu3 (Accepted)" - this should have a link to the lp status page
[19:21] <CarlFK> https://launchpad.net/~carlfk/+archive/ppa/+build/2500987           Finished 16 minutes ago                    (took 9 minutes, 16.1 seconds)
[19:21] <CarlFK> huh, I didn't get the email
[19:48] <joh> Hi, is it possible to move a ppa to a new location? Preferably so that users don't have to update their sources with the new URL...
[19:53] <CarlFK> joh: um, what's the point?
[19:53] <joh> CarlFK: https://answers.launchpad.net/alarm-clock/+question/157236
[19:55] <CarlFK> i still don't see the point
[19:56] <joh> CarlFK: I guess it's cleaner to have the ppa under a team rather than a person..?
[20:04] <CarlFK> I think the "preferably... redirect" muddles the cleaner
[20:08] <lifeless> joh: make a new ppa
[20:08] <lifeless> joh: upload the things you want to it
[20:09] <lifeless> and delete the old one
[20:09] <lifeless> we don't support redirects to newer ppa urls (for a few reasons, including apt not having a UI for it)
[20:09] <joh> lifeless: ah ok, then I'm not sure it's worth it...
[20:10] <lifeless> if you want it team maintained it is :), but only you can decide that
[20:11] <joh> yeah, well it's basically just to keep packages which haven't been updated in universe yet.
[20:13] <joh> lifeless: what are the advantages of having it team maintained?
[20:17] <lifeless> joh: multiple people can upload to it
[20:20] <joh> lifeless: ah ok
[20:30] <jcsackett> sinzui: you free for help contact?
[20:30] <sinzui> yes, sorry
[20:31] <jcsackett> sinzui: thanks, and no worries. :-)
[22:10] <dvdk> hi,
[22:11] <dvdk> is this the right place to ask a question about upload.ubuntu.com?
[22:11] <lifeless> sure
[22:11] <dvdk> (already tried to ask before, but didn't got a reply)
[22:12] <dvdk> today i accidentally uploaded a proprietary package to upload.ubuntu.com,
[22:12] <dvdk> which was immediately rejected
[22:12] <dvdk> still, I figure, the data may continue to be stored in the incoming directory for some time?
[22:12] <dvdk> (unreadable to me, it seems, but who knows who has access?)
[22:13] <dvdk> startled? :)
[22:13] <dvdk> package was ment to be but into a company-internal repository via 'dput'
[22:14] <dvdk> but the 'dput' shipped with ubuntu uploads to upload.ubuntu.com by default (i.e. no server given on command line)
[22:17] <dvdk> so my question is: (a) are uploads rejected due to missing signature immediately deleted? and (b) whom to contact to ask for deletion if (a)'s anwer is "no".
[22:20] <lifeless> I believe they are
[22:20] <lifeless> each upload goes into a unique temp dir
[22:20] <lifeless> and that is either blessed or discarded
[22:20] <dvdk> lifeless: ah cool.  that's what i hoped for
[22:20] <dvdk> then maybe i'll be able to keep my job :)
[22:21] <lifeless> I can confirm that in a bit, if you like
[22:21] <lifeless> (to be absolutely sure, I mean)
[22:21] <dvdk> lifeless: that would be incredible (and make me sleep better :)
[22:21] <lifeless> some folk intimately familiar with this part of the system come online in ~1.5 hours.
[22:21] <lifeless> I will double check with them.
[22:22] <dvdk> lifeless: do you need the name of the package? to look for?
[22:22] <lifeless> if the thing hasn't been immediately deleted, only the sysadmins would be able to see it
[22:22] <lifeless> and we can get them to delete all failed uploads if thats the case
[22:22] <lifeless> dvdk: I don't think so, no.
[22:22] <lifeless> but if you want to msg it to me that can't hurt


[11:54] <debfx> could someone please have a look at virtualbox in NEW? it's just a renamed package (from virtualbox-ose) and I'd like to backport it to natty
[12:57] <cjwatson> ScottK: when you say "Ubuntu changes are all incorporated or OBE", satisfy my curiosity - what does OBE mean?
[12:57] <cjwatson> (in sync requests)
[12:57] <ScottK> Overtaken By Events.
[12:57] <ScottK> (i.e. no longer relevant)
[12:58] <ScottK> Sorry, I thought that was a generic acronym.
[12:58] <cjwatson> aha, thanks
[13:53] <cjwatson> Laney,ScottK: confirm that it's OK to remove geordi, following the Debian removal?  I notice a discussion here a couple of days back which suggests that, but since it's modified in Ubuntu I tend to explicitly ask
[13:53] <ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.  Please do.
[13:54] <cjwatson> OK, done, thanks
[13:56] <Laney> the emails about removing geordi taught me about codepad.org which is actually rather cool
[14:57] <jdstrand> skaet: hi! it occurred to me that the people who should be notified in !regression-alert was out of date. I got this updated today but was wondering if we could tie its review to the release cycle
[14:57] <jdstrand> skaet: and it so, where
[14:58] <jdstrand> skaet: I initially looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseChecklist, it seemed odd in there (but I'd be happy to put it there if you think that is best)
[14:58] <skaet> jdstrand,  definitely interested,  but probably need a bit of education.
[15:08] <jdstrand> skaet: is it this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess?
[15:08] <skaet> jdstrand,  yes that's a better place.
[15:08] <jdstrand> skaet: do you have a preference which section it belongs in?
[15:08] <skaet> at the start of the cycle we should know the roles for the upcoming release,  so a cross check then makes sense.
[15:09] <skaet> probably at the First Few weeks after..
[15:09] <jdstrand> k
[15:09]  * jdstrand edits
[15:57] <skaet> ScottK - based on the Kubuntu council meeting yesterday,  can I assume that the Kubuntu specs are all now approved for Oneiric?
[15:59] <skaet> jdstrand,  thanks.  :)
[16:00] <jdstrand> skaet: sure thing! :)
[16:06] <ScottK> skaet: Yes.  I'll mark the specs ujp here in a bit.
[16:18] <skaet> ScottK, thanks.
[20:33] <skaet> ScottK, can you please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseImageContacts with the Kubuntu information?  ie. test contacts, and which images are shipping per milestone.
[20:35] <ScottK> skaet: I'm a bit tied up today.  Please ping me tomorrow if I forget.
[20:36] <skaet> ScottK.  Ok,  will add it as an action to the agenda ;-)
[21:19] <jdstrand> is there something wrong with the publisher?
[21:21] <jdstrand> I unembargoed something 5 hours ago and it is sitting in ACCEPTED
[21:33] <cjwatson> jdstrand: it seems to be running - what package?
[21:34] <jdstrand> cjwatson: I brought it up in #launchpad-ops
[21:34] <jdstrand> cjwatson: basically, look at the accepted queue for lucid, maverick and natty


[02:27] <ubotu> New bug: #122591 in xorg (main) "Intel 945 Express 1680x1050 resolution on external monitor" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122591
[05:05] <ubotu> New bug: #127302 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "Intel G945 vidio driver don't support the "direct rendering" on Gutsy " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127302
[12:48] <ubotu> New bug: #127343 in Ubuntu "Problem running Ubuntu 7.04 with VIA VN896 Chrome9 IGP Graphic Card" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127343
[02:45] <ubotu> New bug: #127368 in xorg (main) "Ubuntu won't install on Dell 1420n" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127368
[03:11] <ubotu> New bug: #127369 in xorg (main) "Stuck on blank screen after login with nvidia driver on ubuntu gutsy tribe 3" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127369
[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #127382 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (main) "EVDEV driver makes my mouse mad" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127382
[10:35] <ubotu> New bug: #127428 in xserver-xorg-video-unichrome (universe) "very inaccurate package description" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127428


[03:03] <jdthood> Mention of the 13 April Community Council Meeting can be removed from the topic of this channel.  It was said that the meeting will be rescheduled.  Anyone know the proposed date(s)?
[03:05] <Treenaks> jdthood: good luck.. topic is not protected ;)


[17:42] <eivnaes> Hello anyone here?
[18:36] <eivnaes> I am looking for a way to create a network configuration using netplan where eth0 is brought up and the requests N unique IP addresses via DHCP. Is there a way I can do this, e.g. by configuring interface aliasing, or specifying multiple dhcp configurations with different uuids for identifiers?
[18:41] <schopin> eivnaes: I think you'll need macvlan aliases for this as the DHCP server usually matches the lease with a MAC. I don't think those are supported in netplan.
[18:49] <eivnaes> neither is interface aliasing, any idea if network-manager supports this, or would it matter? netplan is a layer on top of networkd or network-manager if I understand this correctly?
[18:49] <eivnaes> I found interface aliasing as a TODO on the github repo
[18:54] <schopin> eivnaes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/netplan/+bug/1664847 lists several workarounds for the lack of macvlans. I'd probably go with using a systemd unit to create the macvlan interfaces and use a match: block in the netplan config to enable dhcp on all of them.
[18:58] <eivnaes> Thanks shopin, I'll take a look


[20:24] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:41] <ajmitch> morning
[20:42] <mwhudson> morning
[21:37] <Atamira> morning
[22:01] <kcj> Morning.
[22:21] <_thumper_> morning


[09:34] <JamesTait> Good morning, Angels! :-D
[11:18] <gatox> good morning!
[11:47] <gatox> brb...... need to restart
[11:58] <alecu> good morning, all!
[11:59] <gatox> alecu, hi
[12:01] <mandel> alecu, gatox, hello!
[12:01] <alecu> I've got my daughter Amelia with a big rash spread all around, so I'm not taking her to kinder today, and will take her to the doctor as soon as the traffic around calms down a bit.
[12:01] <gatox> mandel, o/
[12:01] <mandel> gatox, yes, I was drunk during the weekend ;) (which explains twitter)
[12:01] <alecu> (there's a subway strike to complicate matters around here)
[12:01] <gatox> alecu, ack
[12:01] <mandel> alecu, uhh cuida a amelia!
[12:01] <gatox> mandel, jejejejeje i figure it out
[12:01] <alecu> so, I'm probably taking at least the morning off... I'll let ralsina know as soon as he gets here.
[12:21] <Chipaca> alecu: ralsina is stuck in the 18th century but should be back sometime soon (he just needs to find 1.21GW in usable form)
[12:21] <Chipaca> alecu: take care of amelia; between mandel, cparrino and myself somebody will let ralsina know :)
[12:22] <alecu> Chipaca: great, thanks!
[12:23]  * Chipaca was always tickled by the ridiculous precision that number was given in, vis-a-vis the cudeness of the rest of the equipment
[12:24] <alecu> Chipaca: I'm guessing that from the 18th century he cannot pinpoint exactly the time to return, and will probably get around here with a year's offset.
[12:24] <alecu> I'm talking about ralsina, not dr. brown.
[12:24] <Chipaca> alecu: traveling forwards in time is sooper easy
[12:24] <Chipaca> alecu: all you have to do is stay still
[12:25] <Chipaca> alecu: you can even speed it up by just moving
[12:25] <Chipaca> just bounce of walls as stuff as you can
[12:25] <mandel> alecu, gatox, we might also have rendering bugs in the text entry of nux.. talking with nux experts about thins on how to solve it..
[12:25] <alecu> Chipaca: but you can only get so far
[12:25] <mandel> alecu, gatox, I'm talking about nux::TextEntry nothing related with us..
[12:25] <alecu> Chipaca: you are still limited by the lifespan of your body :-(
[12:26] <gatox> mandel, mmm...... i'm fixing libunity here for the errorpreview protocol
[12:26] <alecu> mandel: what kind of bugs?
[12:26] <Chipaca> alecu: if you bounce of things at seven-nines of c, you'd be surprised at how interesting your life span becomes
[12:26] <Chipaca> of course, seven nines is quite extreme
[12:26] <mandel> alecu, infinite loop by calling recreate canvas when added in a layout
[12:27] <mandel> alecu, similar to what the static cairo text problem we had, thankfully I read yhe book you sent
[12:27] <gatox> mandel, yac
[12:27] <gatox> yack
[12:28] <alecu> mandel: I'm thinking of searching for the lost chapters in that book.
[12:29] <alecu> mandel: "when added in a layout". At what point are we exactly adding the textentry to the layout?
[12:30] <alecu> mandel: are we doing it at "form" construction time?
[12:30] <alecu> mandel: or later?
[12:30] <alecu> mandel: (by "form", I mean, the container widget)
[12:31] <mandel> alecu, we create the layout and add it, later that layout is added to the main preview layout
[12:33] <alecu> mandel: and all of this happens in the main preview constructor? or does it happen later, for instance, in the middle of a paint cycle?
[12:33] <alecu> mandel: the later case is usually problematic for some toolkits.
[12:33] <mandel> alecu, in the paint cycle, so that the object does get created but never painted
[12:33] <alecu> mandel: if this happens in the former case, it surely looks like a bug of nux.
[12:34] <mandel> alecu, the fact that this happens https://pastebin.canonical.com/79574/ is also smelly
[12:34] <alecu> mandel: I mean, is the layout added *during* the paint cycle?
[12:34] <mandel> alecu, that is while doing nothing (of course the mouse is out of the window)
[12:34] <mandel> alecu, oh, no, is added at construction time AFAIK
[12:34] <karni> Good morning o/
[12:40] <alecu> mandel: yes, that looks like the Cairo context is being recreated on each draw cycle, due to the layout being unstable.
[12:40] <alecu> mandel: which is a serious red flag.
[12:40] <mandel> alecu, yes yes, which is something that has worried me since I saw it, remember I mentioned this in the sprint?
[12:42] <alecu> mandel: I remember you talking a lot about Tubers. Oh, and I think I remember you mentioned this, too.
[12:43] <gatox> karni, o/
[12:43] <karni> o/
[13:14] <mandel> alecu, ralsina, mvo, the nux work will make our stuff land later than expected, we have a big problem in there
[13:19] <mandel> alecu, ralsina_, looks like we have several rendering bugs, one with the canvas being deleted every two frames, another with layouts not working when they have more than one cairo text
[13:22] <mandel> and text does not use ellipses correctly.. nice...
[13:53] <mandel> alecu, ralsina_, karni, mvo => gatox has lost internet connection
[13:53] <karni> ack
[13:53] <mvo> ok
[14:22] <gatox> backk....... i'm connected using the phone...... so is not very trusty....... but during my not connection time..... i was able to fix libunity-error preview and the error preview branch! \o/
[14:39] <diogobaeder_> test
[16:31]  * gatox lunch
[16:38] <ralsina_> good morning!
[16:39] <karni> o/
[16:45] <dobey> hola ralsina_
[16:45] <ralsina_> hola dobey!
[17:14] <dobey> lunch, bbiab
[23:12] <dobey> later all


[01:43] <sigint> hello all
[01:44] <sigint> i was wondering how I can get involved with the Documentation team
[07:59] <mdke> morning all
[08:00] <bhuvan> hi mdke, morning
[08:07] <mdke> hiya bhuvan, how's it going?
[08:13] <bhuvan> hi mdke, going good. bit busy with projects these days.
[08:16] <mdke> sounds good


[07:43] <dholbach> good morning
[13:51] <Fenario> cvd: ping
[13:51] <dholbach> Fenario: wrong channel
[13:51] <dholbach> :)
[13:52] <Fenario> dholbach: thank you!!!! not enough coffee :-)
[13:52]  * dholbach prepares some more tea
[15:00] <guardian> hello
[15:52] <agoliveira> Dos anyone have a N800 handy?
[15:52] <agoliveira> s/Dos/Does
[16:15] <ian_brasil> i can get hold of one
[16:17] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I just want to know if claws 3.10 is already on it or if one has to download and install.
[16:17] <ian_brasil> ok i will have a look
[16:18] <agoliveira> Thanks
[16:26] <ian_brasil> the default on the device is osso-email of which the UI and engine are all GPL ..claws meeds to be installed from http://www.claws-mail.org/maemo/ using the one click installer
[16:27] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: That makes sense. I'll try it on my 770. Thanks.
[16:27] <ian_brasil> no problem
[17:03] <lool> Meeting?
[17:03] <Don_Johnson> I'm here, but I have not heard from anyone else yet
[17:04] <smagoun> ...
[17:04] <tonyespy> ...
[17:04] <bfiller> where is davidm?
[17:04] <garyl> [:)
[17:05] <agoliveira> Yep
[17:05] <kyleN> I just pinged him in another chat room
[17:05] <Sciri> ...
[17:05] <ChickenCutlass> :)
[17:05] <lool> Me too; let's flood ping him
[17:05] <agoliveira> Weird, I was chating with him 5 min ago...
[17:06] <kyleN> he must be sleepy thinking about all the thanksgiving food he'll be eating tomorrow
[17:07] <agoliveira> ... and people say that we down here have too much holidays...
[17:07] <agoliveira> s/much/many
[17:07] <smagoun> agoliveira: have you ever been to rio/salvador/etc for new years or carnaval???
[17:07] <Sciri> sudo ping -f davidm
[17:08] <kyleN> Sciri: lol
[17:08] <lool> agoliveira: You can't possibly compete with France on the topic of holidays; we virtually never work
[17:08] <bfiller> someone want to call him on his cell?
[17:08] <agoliveira> smagoun: My family is from there so I have a very good idea :) but down here we don't have carnaval
[17:08] <lool> bfiller: You have it?
[17:08] <agoliveira> Someone on US preferably?
[17:09] <bfiller> yes, I'll call him
[17:09] <lool> bfiller: Would be nice if someone from the US did :)
[17:09] <smagoun> lool: aren't you on strike this month?
[17:09] <smagoun> (you = france)
[17:09] <Don_Johnson> I have his number, I'll try calling
[17:10] <lool> smagoun: It was hard to claim I can't go to work due to strike of the public transportation, but I could have tried entering a strike process myself indeed
[17:10] <bfiller> leaving voice mail right now on cell
[17:10] <bfiller> I'll try home..
[17:10] <lool> Shall we proceed in discussing the actions points nevertheless?
[17:10] <Sciri> Maybe davidm ran out of coffee...
[17:11] <bfiller> he's joining now..
[17:12] <davidm> I'm here sorry
[17:12] <davidm> #startmeeting
[17:12] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:12. The chair is davidm.
[17:12] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:12] <kyleN> taking care of your turkeys? ;)
[17:12] <davidm> Side tracked was off line tringto get online again
[17:13] <davidm> OK, first item is:
[17:13] <davidm> [topic] bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:14] <bfiller> don't have much progress to report here as I haven't had the time this week to work on it..
[17:14] <bfiller> can we carry over until next week?
[17:14] <davidm> Yes
[17:14] <davidm> [action] carry over  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:14] <davidm> [topic] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:14] <bspencer> didn't do it
[17:15] <davidm> carry over again?
[17:15] <bspencer> :-\  sorry. unfortunately please carry over
[17:15] <davidm> NP
[17:15] <davidm> [action] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:15] <davidm> [topic] Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case.
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case.
[17:15] <Don_Johnson> Some information, thanks to Bob and Rob, pushing a discussion. I'll try to summarize.
[17:16] <Don_Johnson> The use case in question was access to ext3 filesystems from windows systems, as I recall.
[17:17] <Don_Johnson> In this case, the PRD use case, and this seems to be confirmed by the email discussions is to use RNDIS and TCPIP to export these file systems.
[17:18] <bspencer> Don_Johnson: correct -- we have agap we are trying to close between the USB client w/FAT and our ext2/ext3 filesystem
[17:18] <lool> (What's PRD?)
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> The PRD use case says that on the MID select filesystems to be exported.  Then when the MID connects, it move to RNDIS mode.
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> PRD: Prodcut Requirements Document
[17:18] <lool> (Thanks)
[17:18] <bspencer> lool:  good question     What is that Don_Johnson  :)
[17:19] <bspencer> lool:  our marketing group created a requirements document long ago that we refer to internally
[17:19] <kyleN> is Intel providing the MID side software to select the MID folder to expose?
[17:19]  * lool discovers RNDIS as we talk
[17:19] <lool> bspencer: Ok; thanks for clarifying to me
[17:19] <smagoun> kyleN: folders should be exposed automatically, users shouldn't have to configure the MID
[17:19] <smagoun> The PRD might not say that, but it's wrong :)
[17:20] <bspencer> kyleN:  my understanding ( Don_Johnson can correct ) is that Intel is providing the USB client solution.  Users should be able to plug the MID into the PC and see a new drive (similiar to any mass storage device)
[17:20]  * agoliveira is scared about marketing writing documents that engineers have to follow after
[17:20] <davidm> So are we thinking SAMBA in conjunction with RNDIS to export ext3?
[17:20] <bspencer> agoliveira: welcome to the corporate world
[17:20] <agoliveira> bspencer: Why do you think I ran aways from it? :)
[17:21] <Don_Johnson> Samba is mentioned in this context.  I don't know enough about Samba to give an opinion on how this works
[17:21] <lool> Don_Johnson: Who decides to expose data as RNDIS + samba or USB mass storage?
[17:21] <davidm> Correct me if I'm wrong but is not RNDIS TCP/IP over USB?
[17:22] <bspencer> jacob_p:  ping
[17:22] <Don_Johnson> That is my understanding, that RNDIS is TCP/IP
[17:22] <jacob_p> bspencer, pong
[17:22] <smagoun> davidm: yes
[17:22] <davidm> So then we need to have SAMBA running to export a windows share or shares then? Is that the thought?
[17:23] <bspencer> jacob_p: = jacob_pan ?  Have you helped on USB client work?  Or is that someone else?
[17:23] <agoliveira> davidm: In theory you can use over any network device but usually it's over USB, yes.
[17:23] <jacob_p> bspencer, not me. it is a team in beijing doing the development work. Alek is doing the integration
[17:23] <agoliveira> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/rmNDIS.mspx
[17:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/rmNDIS.mspx
[17:23] <patm> Dumb question, has anyone here ever done this with a USB connection, and does it just work with windows
[17:24] <bspencer> patm:  you mean, has anyone plugged in the MID to a PC and seen it show up as a mass storage device?
[17:24] <patm> or any computer
[17:24] <bspencer> my iRiver is a computer?  it does this
[17:24] <kyleN> lool's question also: what decides if MID is treated as usb mass storage or rndis + smaba
[17:24] <lool> I know there's "usbnet" which should be capable of interconnecting linux hosts, but I don't know whether it's actually rndis compatible
[17:24] <davidm> Don_Johnson, to summarize what I think I hear:  Intel to provide a USB Client driver that will bring up networking when connected to a Windows or Linux box, then we run samba on that interface to provide share[s] to be mounted?
[17:26] <bspencer> davidm / Don_Johnson :   We need to clarify the process and deliverables.  I don't think we've ever done that clearly
[17:26] <Don_Johnson> I can't comment on samba.  The model is that on the MID the user selects which filesystems to export. As I understand it, if filesysesm are selcected for export, it mounts itself as a network device to export them.
[17:27] <davidm> bspencer, Don_Johnson can you take an AR to clarify the process and deliverables?
[17:27] <bspencer> davidm:  yes, thanks
[17:27] <Don_Johnson> But I think we need to get more info on how this works and what the user interface is.
[17:27] <tonyespy> Don_Johnson: does a MID-user really need the capability of exposing /bin to the PC?
[17:28] <agoliveira> I'm not sure I'm confortable with "the user selects which filesystems to export" if the "user" means end user.
[17:28] <Don_Johnson> OK, I'll keep looking into it.
[17:28] <lool> Don_Johnson: So no mass storage emulation anymore?
[17:28] <bspencer> tonyespy: we are planning to export a sub-part of the filesystem
[17:28] <davidm> [action] bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables.
[17:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables.
[17:28] <bspencer> tonyespy: such as the home directory, or even more restricted -- the "media" subdirectory
[17:28] <smagoun> tonyespy: Don_Johnson there should be a predefined set of folders exposed (music, photos, video for starters). there should be no configuration.
[17:28]  * lool agrees with smagoun
[17:28] <Don_Johnson> The model I read, said that initially it mounts as mass storage.  I believe in this case it exports VFAT.
[17:28] <bspencer> smagoun: totally agree
[17:28] <agoliveira> +1
[17:29] <tonyespy> bspencer: then my question would be...can a driver alone do this work, or does there need to be an addtl piece of MID user-software to drive?
[17:29] <davidm> yes, but the file system is ext3 so you need to provide a translator to export a vfat from ext3
[17:29] <lool> Don_Johnson: Who decides whether it's exposed as mass storage?  Where's the vfat?
[17:30] <bspencer> tonyespy:  alek as described it to me a few times, but I can't repeat his description.  Yes, something additional has to have this intelligence and where that is I'm not sure, but someone here is :)
[17:30] <Don_Johnson> I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exproted.
[17:30] <bspencer> davidm: exactly, there's the rub.
[17:30] <patm> any chance the usb client spec can be updated to explain this
[17:30] <lool> NB: there's a rndis_host module on my hardy install
[17:30] <davidm> [action] Don_Johnson I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exported.
[17:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Don_Johnson I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exported.
[17:31] <davidm> OK to summarize: filesystem = ext3 to mount on Windows must be seen as VFAT
[17:32] <davidm> two possible ways to do this: Networking and SAMBA or USB Mass Storage with some code to translate on the fly between ext3 and vfat
[17:32] <davidm> Are there other options I'm missing?
[17:33] <kyleN> that sounds right, except if rndis, does there have to be host side setup utility?
[17:33] <Don_Johnson> Customization and configuration. Who decides what filesystems are exproted.
[17:34] <davidm> Don_Johnson, true but how that might be done would depend upon which method is used to export the filesystem.
[17:34] <bfiller> Don_Johnson: (copy from smagoun ):there should be a predefined set of folders exposed (music, photos, video for starters). there should be no configuration.
[17:34] <lool> davidm: There's the option to expose the memory card, like on the N800
[17:35] <lool> I think this makes sense
[17:35] <Don_Johnson> I believe, that should be: No end user configuration.
[17:35] <davidm> Under samba it's well known but does not have a super friendly front end.  Under the USB MS with translator who knows
[17:35] <smagoun> Don_Johnson: yes. no end user configuration. It should be magic to the end user
[17:35] <bfiller> Don_Johnson: yes
[17:35] <tonyespy> davidm: to kyle's point, intel is working on the client-side driver; we need to determine if additional software on the client and/or host is required to make the solution "usable"
[17:35] <lool> There's also the option of having the /home as a vfat filesystem, but then we would have to umount it before exposing it as USB mass
[17:35] <bspencer> I think our design by committee is fun, but I would suggest that someone take the assignment to clarify all of these things so we don't do this again.
[17:35] <davidm> So can we postpone the rest of this conversation until after the action items are reported back on?
[17:36] <patm> Don_Johnson, who at Intel is implementing this feature
[17:36] <smagoun> mootbot #nexttopic
[17:36] <bspencer> patm: we cleverly split up the work across divisions
[17:36] <patm> davidm, I want an action to update the specification for usb client
[17:36] <bspencer> and we are now working through the problem together.
[17:37] <davidm> patm, are you taking that action? Or do you want someone to take it?
[17:37] <bspencer> patm: I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side
[17:37] <patm> davidm, whoever bspencer  refers to as "we"
[17:37] <davidm> patm, got it
[17:37] <patm> bspencer, thanks
[17:38] <davidm> [action] bspencer I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side to update the USB specification.
[17:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side to update the USB specification.
[17:38] <bspencer> accepted
[17:38] <davidm> Are we good at this point?
[17:38] <davidm> new topic coming then
[17:38] <davidm> [topic] carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week.
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week.
[17:38] <lool> I uploaded an updated and fixed MIC for hardy which pulls from hardy + hardy ppa by default; I wouldn't recommend using hardy on q1 or on touchscreen devices using the evtouch driver as it's currently a bug with no workaround; I backported this MIC for gutsy + gutsy ppa, the images work fine and I recommend using/testing it, you can use it under hardy as well instead of the hardy version
[17:39] <lool> (hope this wasn't cut)
[17:39] <davidm> lool, the last part I got was: I backported this MIC for gutsy + gutsy ppa, the images work fine and I recommend using/testing it, you can use it under hardy as well instead of the hardy version
[17:39] <lool> [Building images for hardy should fail at the moment due to gtk+2.0 not being built for lpia; I've contacted IS and they solved the issue, the buildds should finish building the queue soonish]
[17:40] <lool> davidm: That's the last part; thanks for confirming
[17:40] <davidm> Np
[17:40] <bspencer> lool:  if I ask for a package (let's say hildon-libs-l10n-engb) to be added, you will put this in hardy PPA and gutsy PPA ?   So I can get them now w/gutsy+gutsy PPA solution?
[17:41] <lool> bspencer: The first thing which we should target is hardy; when the module work in hardy, and if there's interest for it I (or someone else) can backport it wherever needed
[17:41] <lool> One obvious place would be the gutsy ppa if that's what you're basing on ATM
[17:41] <bfiller> lool: can you clarify what the hardy ppa is for then?
[17:41] <bspencer> time frame estimate for hardy being ready?
[17:41] <lool> bfiller: It has just been setup for symetry with the gutsy + gutsy ppa setup
[17:41] <lool> bspencer: define ready?
[17:42] <lool> bspencer: No major issue once?  No major issue until release?  image builds and boots, UI doesn't work?
[17:42] <bspencer> lool:  we have put some packages on moblin because we didn't know how else to get them in a working image
[17:42] <bspencer> (such as the hildon one above)
[17:43] <davidm> bspencer, we can pull that into both ppa's
[17:43] <lool> bspencer: So I would recommend you try to put them in the development dist: hardy; that should always be your first concern IMO; if you then need to get it into stable images, then the gutsy + gutsy ppa ones seem like good stable images to me
[17:43] <bspencer> lool:  right, but we don't have the luxury of waiting for a week or month or months for a stable working image.  We need things working now.
[17:43] <davidm> but we want to make sure it does not break the gutsy ppa or it would void the purpose of a stable ppa for testing
[17:43] <lool> bspencer: You should make sure that any fixes you carry at moblin.org is in hardy and then we can work on backporting hardy stuff into gutsy ppa
[17:44] <bspencer> lool: agree, I was just looking for an ubuntu solution that was stable at all times.  I can't use hardy today, so we have things on moblin + we use gutsy
[17:44] <lool> bspencer: The gutsy images should work at the moment, but I don't think they pull from the PPA; if you need to override the current build sooner than the images pulling from the gutsy ppa, I recommend you run image builds from the gutsy + gutsy ppa yourself
[17:44] <davidm> bspencer, is the package stable in gutsy now?  If so we can put it into gutsy ppa now.
[17:44] <bspencer> but hardy is our future and we want everything there too.
[17:45] <lool> bspencer: The Ubuntu stable solution is supposed to be gutsy at the moment; if you can run image builds yourself, I recommend gutsy + gutsy ppa
[17:45] <bspencer> lool:  yes, exactly.  So can we add theese new packages to hardy + gutsy PPA now?
[17:45] <lool> (I don't know when our gutsy images will be pulling from the ppa)
[17:46] <lool> bspencer: Sure, we can always do that; as long as this doesn't render the stable images unstable :)
[17:46] <davidm> 15 minutes left
[17:46] <bspencer> lool:  yes, I see.  OK.  I'll send you an email and yo ucan take it form there
[17:46] <bspencer> davidm: done from my end
[17:46] <davidm> K
[17:46] <lool> bspencer: If you pull MIC from gutsy ppa, it will build an image from gutsy + gutsy ppa which is stable
[17:47] <lool> done here too
[17:47] <davidm> [topic] smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <smagoun> no progress - I've been working on other X problems (failure to launch with latest gutsy+ppa+moblin debs/kernel) and a couple fire drills on our end.
[17:47] <davidm> carry it over?
[17:47] <smagoun> yup
[17:47] <davidm> [action] carry over  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <davidm> [topic] StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test
[17:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test
[17:48] <kyleN> steveK got this in today, haven't tested
[17:48] <davidm> I know that StevenK is working on this
[17:48] <lool> (Seeing smagoun is building against gutsy + ppa + *moblin*, I'm interested in hearing from fixes we should upload to Ubuntu which are currently moblin only)
[17:48] <davidm> Good, so new action is KyleN to test?
[17:48] <kyleN> yes
[17:49] <agoliveira> gutsy + ppa + *moblin* sound scary...
[17:49] <davidm> [action] kyleN to test  h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status
[17:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to test  h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status
[17:49] <bspencer> agoliveira: that's just because he put asterisks ** around moblin
[17:49] <agoliveira> bspencer: Even so :)
[17:49] <davidm> [topic] kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with h-i-m
[17:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with h-i-m
[17:49] <kyleN> I talked to Kevin Huang this morning about what he thinks the limits of the Hildon Input Method are. He said he is not sure  that with HIM the user can switch input method from, say Pinyin Simple Chinese to Anthy for Japanese. You can easily do this with SCIM.
[17:50] <davidm> K so will your test from prior action cover this issue?
[17:50] <kyleN> as noted, I'll attempt to test HIM, although there's precious little info out there on how to do it
[17:50] <davidm> understood
[17:50] <kyleN> yes, prior action covers it
[17:50] <davidm> K
[17:50] <davidm> [topic] agoliveira mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria
[17:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  agoliveira mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria
[17:51] <davidm> agoliveira is the list in the spec complete at this point?
[17:51] <lool> kyleN: FWIW, http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1189194936.html mentions "Common user interface to switch between input methods, languages and layouts."
[17:51] <kyleN> lool, thanks
[17:51] <agoliveira> Ok. I added the basic list of apps we agreed upon into the spec and included also a link to a slightly modified https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserApplicationCriteria
[17:52] <agoliveira> Basically: UME browser    Cheese    Claws mail    Moblin Chat    Moblin Media Player
[17:52] <smagoun> I'm not convinced that the "complementary criteria" aren't required
[17:52] <kyleN> agoliveira, have you applied each criterion to each app and noted the analysis somewhere?
[17:52] <agoliveira> smagoun: I agreed but we simply don't have the manpower to do everything.
[17:52] <smagoun> for example, hiding the user from the filesystem - that's not a 'minimum requirement'
[17:53] <agoliveira> kyleN: Not yet. I didn't have the time.
[17:53] <smagoun> (but it should be)
[17:53] <agoliveira> smagoun: Well, we have to draw a line at some point based on the resources we have
[17:53] <patm> agoliveira,  Is the basic list of apps the complete set of committed apps?
[17:53] <agoliveira> patm: For the core, yes.
[17:54] <bspencer> wrt criteria, I took that excellent list and broke it into 3 levels:  bronze, silver, gold.  moblin plans to have a web page that lists applications and the _level_ of criteria they meet.
[17:54] <agoliveira> bspencer: Don't forget to ping me when it's done, please
[17:54] <tonyespy> what about settings applications?
[17:54] <agoliveira> tonyespy: Like configuration stuff?
[17:55] <tonyespy> agoliveira: yes
[17:55] <bspencer> agoliveira: I'll send my suggested levels to this list shortly
[17:55] <bspencer> kyleN: won't be happy because I put i18n in the "gold" level  :P
[17:55] <tonyespy> agoleira: or operational menus / apps ( eg. nm-applet )
[17:55] <agoliveira> Well, that's a good question. As I'm looking only for user level stuff, it never crossed my mind.
[17:55] <kyleN>  bspencer, I'm thrilled beyond the capability of words to express ;)
[17:56] <agoliveira> I believe that goes into the work Rob have being doing doesn't it?
[17:56] <kyleN> guess that means we need core apps to meet the gold level
[17:56] <bspencer> kyleN: absolutely.
[17:56] <davidm> agoliveira, I think so
[17:56] <bspencer> kyleN: that is true -- no sarcasm intended
[17:57] <agoliveira> Ok but are we going to take this the way it comes, no margin for discussion?
[17:57] <patm> has any more work gone into evaluating the modest based email client?
[17:58] <kyleN> ago: lets take the gold list and consider that a work order (somehow) for all core apps
[17:58] <davidm> bspencer, I'm looking forward to seeing your list
[17:58] <agoliveira> kyleN: That's my question. Let's check the list first, shall we? :)
[17:59] <agoliveira> patm: Not me, I wasn't working last week.
[17:59] <kyleN> ago: definitely
[17:59] <davidm> [action] bspencer to email  his suggested levels to this list shortly
[17:59] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to email  his suggested levels to this list shortly
[17:59] <patm> agoliveira, is there a plan to do this soon? or do we need to make one?
[17:59] <lool> patm: I think StevenK discussed updating a lib or a tinymail component recently
[17:59] <davidm> patm, not yet, agoliveira on vacaion last week, tollef this week
[17:59] <agoliveira> After that we can tell what can be possibly done with the resources we have now, namely, you'rs trully.
[17:59] <bspencer> one thing I found in organizing the list was that we need examples for all of these things
[17:59] <bspencer> that is a big task
[18:00] <lool> We're at libtinymail 0.0.4
[18:00] <davidm> OK out of time and we have two items left.
[18:00] <smagoun> bspencer: I think I can help you with examples
[18:00] <bspencer> patm: davidm  is that planned?
[18:00] <agoliveira> patm: Not yet. We are commited with claws for now.
[18:00] <patm> agoliveira, may be hard to make gold :-)
[18:00] <bspencer> I would love a little investigation on tinymail
[18:01] <bspencer> agoliveira: may be hard to make bronze
[18:01] <agoliveira> patm: I'll be glad to live to see the release right now :)
[18:01] <bspencer> lol
[18:01] <davidm> patm, we are commited to the latest version of claws and to looking at libtinymail but claws works for now.
[18:01] <agoliveira> bspencer: Me too but right now I just can't promisse anything soon.
[18:01] <smagoun> s/works/is in already
[18:01] <bspencer> is in _where_ already?
[18:01] <bspencer> hardy, gutsy ppa ?
[18:02] <agoliveira> I'm about to start porting the latest claws into lpia.
[18:02] <agoliveira> bspencer: hardy but not lpia yet.
[18:02] <bspencer> so no hildon claws yet
[18:02] <bspencer> (yes I know I can build it from source on my system )
[18:03] <agoliveira> bspencer: Nope. I'm about to do that.
[18:03] <davidm> bspencer, give a couple of days and I think it will be ready?  agoliveira true?
[18:03] <bspencer> just needling you again :)  Would love to have a hildon claws in the images by default
[18:03] <agoliveira> Yep.
[18:03] <bspencer> ok
[18:03]  * bspencer writes down Friday as the date  ;)
[18:03] <davidm> can we move to the next topic?
[18:03] <agoliveira> I'm good
[18:04] <davidm> [topic] tonyespy - gnome-keyring & MID; to start or not to start...
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  tonyespy - gnome-keyring & MID; to start or not to start...
[18:04] <agoliveira> bspencer: I guess so.
[18:04] <davidm> tonyespy, comments?
[18:04] <tonyespy> i have 2 private bugs where wifi keys & passphrases aren't remembered after..
[18:04] <tonyespy> reboot or resume
[18:05] <tonyespy> this is due to gnome-keyring not running on the MID
[18:05] <tonyespy> where should i file a bug?
[18:05] <davidm> does it work if you start the gnome-keyring?
[18:05] <patm> this is a basic design question for a system with no user login
[18:05] <tonyespy> davidm: not sure yet
[18:06] <tonyespy> i'll take an action to test
[18:06] <davidm> well it still has a user though
[18:06] <smagoun> the problem is that gnome-keyring requires a password, right?
[18:06] <tonyespy> one question is where should it be started?
[18:06] <patm> can the user understand a keyring, and should they enter a password
[18:06] <lool> tonyespy: You might want to discuss it with gnome-keyring upstream: I think gnome-keyring is relying on env vars to work ATM, but it should move to a dbus service; if you want to launch it like in a gnome session, then we need to change the start-hildon script or something
[18:06] <tonyespy> patm: that's a long term question
[18:06] <lool> tonyespy: It's not enough to "start" the process, you also have to set some env vars IIRC
[18:06] <smagoun> patm: no
[18:07] <tonyespy> lool: gotcha
[18:07] <lool> Check "env | grep KEY"
[18:07] <davidm> [action] tonyespy to test if  wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or resume if gnome-keyring is running
[18:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tonyespy to test if  wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or resume if gnome-keyring is running
[18:07] <lool> GNOME_KEYRING_PID=6429
[18:07] <lool> GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET=/tmp/keyring-DlI1eD/socket
[18:07] <tonyespy> lool: that can go in the hildon startup script no?
[18:07] <bspencer> > tonyespy: where should i file a bug?
[18:07] <patm> if we do not want a keyring, we need a new design for this for mobile, and someone to own it
[18:07] <lool> tonyespy: We should preferably not hardcode anything in this script
[18:07] <bspencer> a longer term topic, but how is bug management done?
[18:07] <lool> Just like we shouldn't hardcode "load the wifi modules" in an init script :)
[18:08] <bspencer> who reviews, prioritizes, assigns, follows up, closes ?
[18:08] <tonyespy> patm: long term is another question.  i'll take an action on the long-term design
[18:08] <tonyespy> patm: network-manager 0.7 is supposed to have global settings, i think this may mean no more keyring, but i'm not sure
[18:08] <bfiller> bspencer: I bellieve the bug gets filed on the appropriate project on launchpad. lool can you verify this is correct?
[18:08] <patm> tonyespy, objects in your mirror are closer than you think
[18:09] <lool> bspencer: Depends; the bug discoverer reports, a package maintainer forwards to the upstream author and a package maintainer closes the bug when it reaches the archive
[18:09] <tonyespy> patm: huh?
[18:09] <patm> what is long term, one month?
[18:09] <kyleN> patm means long term is really next week
[18:09] <davidm> K very short of time now
[18:10] <davidm> can we address last topic ?
[18:10] <davidm> [topic] smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images
[18:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images
[18:10] <lool> davidm: There are two agenda items which are more or less push-only information I guess
[18:10] <smagoun> I'm testing gutsy + gutsy ppa + moblin on crown beach. X doesn't start. Works fine w/ the moblin kernel but not the ubuntu one. Anyone else seen this/working on it?
[18:10] <smagoun> and on a related note, what's amitk's schedule between now and 1/1/08?
[18:11] <davidm> amit is on vacation at the moment
[18:12] <davidm> I think he is back next week'
[18:12] <smagoun> when does he return?
[18:12] <smagoun> thanks
[18:12] <lool> Doesn't look like it when looking at the HR portal
[18:13] <smagoun> davidm: I'm all set
[18:13] <davidm> K
[18:13] <davidm> OK, smagoun do you have any idea why X is not starting or are you investagating?
[18:14] <smagoun> investigating. Some sort of kernel problem
[18:14] <bspencer> smagoun: is this related to sound card?
[18:14] <davidm> K lets talk in email further
[18:14] <smagoun> bspencer: no.
[18:14] <bspencer> without the sound card there was a bug which caused hildon-desktop to fail on CB
[18:15] <bspencer> smagoun: oh, sorry.  I didn't see the kernal comment
[18:15] <smagoun> bspencer: it's not that, I promise. :)
[18:15] <bspencer> working fine with moblin kernel,   crashing with ubuntu kernel
[18:15] <davidm> OK I'm going to close the meeting and get the meeting minutes out shortly.
[18:15] <lool> Thanks!
[18:15] <ian_brasil> just a quick reminder...there was a lack of status updates this week...only Loic so far in my inbox...can this be sorted a.s.a.p please?
[18:16] <lool> I did all the work this week!   :-P
[18:16] <davidm> I'll also ask Amit to contact ASAP on return from vacation.
[18:16] <smagoun> thx
[18:16] <kyleN> lool: as usual
[18:16] <agoliveira> lool: You have to. All the rest of your country is on strike :)
[18:16] <davidm> #endmeeting
[18:16] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:16.
[19:07]  * agoliveira is back
[19:15] <bfiller> bspencer: ping
[19:20] <agoliveira> Claws 3.10 looks *much* better...
[19:21] <davidm> Yes it does
[19:21] <agoliveira> bfiller: Looks like Bob is running from you :)
[19:21] <davidm> agoliveira, It's better then the last version I had, that is for sure.
[19:22] <agoliveira> It's a bit odd if you're used to the regular interface but it has an interesting approach
[19:23] <bfiller> agoliveira: damn him :)


[05:07] <ubuntu-mate> This OS Is From Linux I'm running on VMware Player
[11:04] <root> 2333
[11:04] <root> 2333
[12:36] <manymous> Salam Aleykum
[14:04] <choudhry> hi this is choudhryu
[22:24] <mate|9546098> Good evening,
[22:24] <mate|9546098> I'd like to know if there is a Phoro in Spanish


[00:31] <doko> apw, ogasawara: would be nice to announce such changes ... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201982759/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.armhf-cross-toolchain-base_1.107_BUILDING.txt.gz
[00:42] <infinity> doko_: They didn't change anything, I slimmed down the chroots a bit and there's a missing build-dep, apparently.
[00:44] <infinity> doko_: Looks like the kernel correctly build-deps on cpio, FWIW, it's just missing for *-toolchain-base, because our chroots used to have initramfs-tools in them (because of upstart), and do no longer.
[00:45] <doko_> infinity, ahh, ok. can you fix these? (and maybe apply multilib-stage1.diff before)
[00:46] <infinity> doko_: If it turns out to be a more widespread problem in the rebuild, I'll re-add cpio to vivid's chroots (and pull it out again in vivid+1)... I already readded the non-Essential procps because too many things seem to expect it.
[00:47] <infinity> doko_: And yeah, I can play with *-toolchain-base.  I should have done so right after I got glibc 2.21 in anyway.
[01:04] <aeoril> darkxst are you not going to release the fix for bug 1315442 for vivid?
[01:06] <sarnold> aeoril: looks like 0ubuntu3 was released 57 minutes ago: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm
[01:07] <aeoril> sarnold oh, foolish me - I just saw that!  Thanks!
[01:07] <aeoril> sarnold and now the paperwork ... :)
[01:10] <aeoril> sarnold I saw this - "I have uploaded to trusty and utopic, please add the SRU paperwork when you can." and only now realize those two were in there and not vivid because they are backports, I guess
[01:11] <aeoril> darkxst ^
[01:11] <sarnold> aeoril: right, though as vivid gets closer to release, at some point I think they'll start requiring the full sru dance for uploads for it, too
[01:12] <sarnold> ..maybe it's just an okay from the release team. I don't normally work on the devel branch, much there is new to me :)
[01:13] <aeoril> sarnold lots of fun, though - I am digging this!  It feels good to be starting to get used to some of the tools - feeling more oriented
[01:13] <sarnold> aeoril: woot \o/
[01:14] <aeoril> sarnold \o/ :)
[01:14] <darkxst> aeoril, its already released in vivid
[01:14] <darkxst> see the bots comment, above mine
[01:15] <aeoril> darkxst yes, I saw that - I was confused by that one email, but got it now.  Thanks!
[01:15] <darkxst> SRU's only start after the final release
[01:16] <sarnold> oh, thanks
[01:22] <aeoril> darkxst also, now I know when I reply to the generated e-mails, they make comments, so I will watch that as well.  I am a little shell-shocked tonight from a long day - going on 18 hours now today.  Time for some relaxation - the SRU paperwork looks like tomorrow afternoon, but it will get done.
[03:26] <aeoril> darkxst I did the SRU "paperwork", but in doing so am a little worried whether I always called the script with "sudo" in my testing.  I think so, but am a little nervous about that - I did not put "sudo" in the test descriptions as I wrote them when I uploaded the debdiff patches and made the comments, so I am a little worried about that
[03:26] <aeoril> darkxst I think not putting "sudo" was an oversight, but just not absolutely sure
[03:27] <aeoril> (in the comments when I uploaded the debdiff patches)
[03:28] <aeoril> darkxst anyway, please let me know if the sru info seems good to you
[03:28] <darkxst> aeoril, wouldnt worry about, anyone reviewing the sru, is likely going to know when or not to use sudo
[03:30] <aeoril> darkxst ok, thanks.  I'll be interested what you think of how I wrote the SRU stuff - I hope I did it right
[03:30] <darkxst> its good, way more verbose than needed, but thats fine
[03:31] <aeoril> darkxst unfortunately, throughout my career I have fought the tendency to be highly verbose and almost always lost :(
[03:32] <aeoril> darkxst anyway, I will keep that in mind next time and try to keep it shorter ...
[03:34] <aeoril> darkxst basically, when writing, words flow out of me like a sieve lol
[03:37] <darkxst> aeoril, I noticed!
[03:38] <aeoril> darkxst lol I have always been (in)famous for that (inequity)quality ;)
[03:38] <aeoril> darkxst I'll try better to put a cap on it
[03:40] <aeoril> darkxst when I am not a computer guy, I do writing and editing on the side, so it can actually be good that I a lot easily for those pursuits
[03:40] <aeoril> write a lot*
[03:40] <darkxst> I don't suppose it matters too much, just makes it take longer for your to write it!
[03:41] <aeoril> darkxst the problem is it also makes it longer for the reader to slog through it!
[03:41] <aeoril> (or, just give up and not read it at all)
[03:42] <darkxst> yes, I barely read it, just skimmed over and picked out the relevant bits
[03:43] <darkxst> most of my SRU's are around 20lines ;)
[03:43] <aeoril> darkxst yes, that is what most people do with my writing lol - I am quite aware of it after almost 30 years of experience with myself
[03:43] <aeoril> darkxst I can keep a cap on it if I remember to watch out for it, though - just my natural self if I do not watch out is very verbose
[03:43] <darkxst> the human minds seems pretty good at sifting out the important bits from the faff!
[03:44] <aeoril> faff?
[03:45] <aeoril> "wheat from the chaff"
[03:45] <darkxst> all the extra details that arent really required
[04:03] <darkxst> aeoril, 3 lines ;) http://pastebin.com/PJ63JbKv
[04:04] <darkxst> but the extra details don't hurt
[04:06] <aeoril> darkxst thats too funny! :)  But, there are some gotchas that need to be considered in the testing that I cover that you don't
[04:06] <aeoril> darkxst I can still learn! :)
[04:08] <darkxst> I don't actually get why there would even be a difference between running /etc/init.d/gdm and ./gdm from that path (there shouldnt!)
[04:09] <darkxst> though if its failing silently, then the stderr is probably redirected to some log in that case
[04:09] <aeoril> darkxst I actually did some extensive probing into that and found out some of the reasons, but that was over a month ago.  Nevertheless, it is real and happens.  It should not, but does.  Parsing command line stuff badly, IIRC or something like that
[04:10] <aeoril> (pulling commands out of the command line, but not doing it robustly, etc)
[04:10] <darkxst> dash can be a weird beast sometimes, but this doesnt like one of them
[04:10] <aeoril> "doesn't like one of them"???
[04:11] <darkxst> ^look like]
[04:12] <aeoril> poor parsing technique in the actual sysv scripts, I think, but I do not think I ever completely nailed down exactly what was going on
[04:13] <aeoril> techniques*
[04:13] <darkxst> aeoril, there a lots of corner cases, when it fails strangely on bash syntax
[04:14] <aeoril> darkxst it was quite a tree of scripts when I was delving into it!
[04:14] <darkxst> ("it" being dash)
[04:14] <aeoril> darkxst I meant "it" being the sysv scripts
[04:16] <aeoril> darkxst there was some fairly elaborate scripting going on in those scripts beneath gdm
[04:19] <infinity> darkxst: 20 lines?  You ovrachiever.  Most of my SRU boilerplate looks like "[Justification] See original report [Test Case] Try to run it.  Does it work?  You friggin' win. [Regression Potential] Might set your house on fire."
[04:20] <darkxst> aeoril, I don't know where that script came from, but if it has bash-isms, its likely to have problems
[04:20] <darkxst> infinity, see my 3 line version about 20 lines up in the scrollback!
[04:21] <infinity> darkxst: Ahh, indeed.  That's more like it. :)
[04:22] <darkxst> I probably should have said 20 lines would be the max length ;)
[04:23] <infinity> darkxst: Well, I've had some elaborate ones where the test case is really brutal or the regression potential is actually worth a discussion, but most SRUs are really quite simple.
[04:23] <infinity> (THankfully)
[04:24] <darkxst> infinity, agreed, but the point was aeoril's is about 200 lines longs ;)
[04:25] <infinity> darkxst: I accepted his SRUs before he updated the bugs.  I'm now afraid to go read. ;)
[04:25] <infinity> Oh wow.
[04:25] <infinity> aeoril: Have you considered a career as a tech writer?
[04:26] <aeoril> infinity are you being facetious?  My effort seems to have fallen flat ...
[04:26] <infinity> aeoril: A little bit, perhaps. :)
[04:27] <infinity> aeoril: But that level of verbosity could come in handy, say, for help with the release notes in a couple of weeks...
[04:27] <infinity> *cough*
[04:29] <aeoril> I have done a lot of tech writing during my career - probably hundreds of pages, if not thousands overall, as part of my duties as a software engineer during all phases of development, including requirements, test cases, bug reports - just about every part of where writing needs to be done.    I think I might be a good fit for that, and like writing as well as editing other peoples writing.  I write and edit on the side, sometimes for money anyway.  That may be a very good fit for me actually at Ubuntu
[04:32] <aeoril> infinity I worked in enterprise, government and military, so tech writing was an oft used skill for any developer in those environments
[04:32] <darkxst> aeoril, ubuntu GNOME release notes are generally sparse
[04:32] <darkxst> no one has started on the final ones yet
[04:32] <infinity> darkxst: That's okay, he can help write both yours and mine, I don't mind.  We'll share him.
[04:33] <darkxst> infinity, perfect!
[04:33] <aeoril> lol I feel like the kid claimed by two women King Solomon said to cut in half ...
[04:34] <darkxst> aeoril, don't take it so seriously then ;)
[04:34] <infinity> aeoril: The sawing in half comes after the release.
[04:34] <aeoril> darkxst I was joking ...
[04:35] <darkxst> infinity, is half a person going to be eligible for ubuntu membership in the future though, that seems a little problematic!
[04:35] <aeoril> infinity if you are serious about me doing some technical writing, where would I get started with that?
[04:36] <aeoril> infinity I am actually very interested in that
[04:36] <aeoril> (I really enjoy writing)
[04:36] <infinity> aeoril: Well, we have a doc team that probably has all sorts of docs on how to contribute.  But none of them seem to contribute to my release notes, so those end up written by frustrated release managers 20 minutes before we ship. :P
[04:37] <infinity> And, while I'm clearly no slouch with this whole English business, writing release notes is about my least favourite thing in the world.
[04:37] <darkxst> infinity, we don't even have that, the doc team refuses to recognise flavours
[04:37] <aeoril> infinity you are talking specifically not about Ubuntu but more gnome?
[04:38] <infinity> darkxst: I feel your pain, and a beer is in the mail.
[04:38] <darkxst> aeoril, infinity is Ubuntu, I am GNOME
[04:38] <infinity> aeoril: I'm talking about all the Ubuntu flavours, though my bias is to the "main" release notes that cover all the core bugs and new features in Ubuntu in general.
[04:39] <aeoril> infinity I might give it a shot.  Definitely a different direction than where I was going, but I might like it
[04:40] <infinity> aeoril: Anyhow, I'll nudge you about it closer to release week.  I'm sure we'd all appreciate some help from someone who actually enjoys writing and editing, rather than what most of the flavour release managers do, which is copy and paste some bug reports, scream "THAT'S TOTALLY GOOD ENOUGH, LA LA LA" and run off to the pub.
[04:40] <infinity> Which is a natural response after the week of pain we go through to get there.
[04:41] <aeoril> infinity whould this be steering me into the arena of a "release manager" then?
[04:42] <infinity> aeoril: Nah, that's an entirely different role.
[04:42] <aeoril> good
[04:42] <darkxst> aeoril, community members can't really do that
[04:42] <infinity> darkxst: That's not true, lots of the release team is community (well, all of them, depending on your world view).
[04:43] <aeoril> anything with the word "manager" in it strikes me with fear and loathing
[04:44] <infinity> aeoril: Depends on the flavour, but most release management is really just technical steering.  It's a position of trust (and holds many keys to the kingdom), though, so comes well after upload permissions and earning trust from your peers, etc.
[04:44] <darkxst> infinity, I meant the actual releases, not the release team
[04:44] <darkxst> that requires access to secret canonical servers no ?
[04:45] <infinity> darkxst: Well, yeah, the final button mashing is something we still have to do internally, because of how the infrastructure is laid out, but we've got that down to mostly a no-brainer.
[04:45] <aeoril> infinity sounds like an honorable thing then
[04:45] <infinity> darkxst: Really, that bit takes me only a few minutes per flavour, so I don't really think about it anymore.  It's all the other crap we (as a team) do leading up to it that's work. :)
[04:47] <aeoril> infinity thanks for recognizing some value in what I did and offering me something I may be really interested in.  A great manager can match the right talent with the right job
[04:47] <infinity> darkxst: Say, why are you not core-dev?
[04:50] <darkxst> infinity, I probably dont have enough time for that! still be meaning to put my -desktop team application in
[04:51] <infinity> darkxst: Well, core-dev doesn't imply uplading every package in main tomorrow, just the ability to do so without being sponsored. :P
[04:51] <infinity> darkxst: Which, I'd guess you've got enough history for at this point.
[04:52] <infinity> darkxst: (And my motivation for asking was because I was pondering if you'd make a good addition to ~ubuntu-release, but because of the permissions that team gives, I won't invite non-core-devs, since it allows you to bypass upload rights)
[04:54] <darkxst> infinity, most of my work has been within ubuntu-desktop sure there would be some core-dev packages in there though
[04:55] <darkxst> I don't really check which are the difference, since I don't have upload rights for either
[04:56] <darkxst> but my MOTU application was knocked back with your too GNOME!
[04:56] <infinity> darkxst: Hah.  Well, that's curious.  Maybe I should have stood for a DMB position this term.
[04:57] <infinity> darkxst: I mean, it's fair that if all of someone's contributions can be covered by a package set, then that's the safe set of permissions to give them.  But people maintaining major DEs like xfce and gnome tend to need to mangle packages that aren't theirs quite often, IME.
[04:57] <infinity> Since we all share a bunch of stuff in core.
[04:58] <darkxst> infinity, none of that is in the flavour packagesets though
[04:59] <darkxst> ours is dismall, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/vivid/ubuntugnome
[04:59] <infinity> darkxst: Exactly, nothing in core can be in flavour packagesets, so once a flavoury person finds they've had to touch those packages often enough and have proven competence in doing so, I'm all for them being a bit less flavourful in their permissions.
[05:00] <darkxst> infinity, and nothing in -desktop either, though pretty sure I will get that now, if I can actually make a meeting
[05:00] <darkxst> its like 5am or so here
[05:03] <infinity> darkxst: Just learn to live timezone-free, like I do.
[05:03] <infinity> (don't do what I do, it's apparently really bad for you)
[05:04] <darkxst> infinity, I need my sleep, had chronic fatigue syndrome, days don't go so well If i don't sleep at night!
[05:05] <infinity> darkxst: I'm pretty sure I need sleep too, I just rarely get any.
[05:13] <aeoril> infinity what is your main role in the Ubuntu community?
[05:13] <darkxst> infinity, I get all sick and stuff If I do that ;(
[05:14] <infinity> aeoril: Jack of all trades, master of two or three.
[05:15] <aeoril> infinity yes, I saw you are a member of a heck of a lot of things on your launchpad page ... do you work for canonical?
[05:15] <infinity> aeoril: I do, yes.
[05:15] <aeoril> infinity do they pay you to work there?
[05:15] <infinity> They keep me fed, yes. :)
[05:16] <Unit193> Ah so it was a choice between food and sleep.  Good choice, you made.
[05:16] <infinity> Heh.
[05:16] <aeoril> darkxst I also need my sleep now - not so much when I was younger
[05:18] <darkxst> aeoril, are you saying I am young? that is unlikely
[05:22] <aeoril> Unit193 remember when you tried to get me interested in vala?
[05:23] <Unit193> Sounds like me to mention it at least, yep.
[05:23] <aeoril> Unit193 I ran into some of it in a bug I was trying to fix (gnome stuff)
[05:24] <aeoril> It reminded me of you and the ubuntu beginners team
[05:25] <Unit193> Heh.
[05:26] <aeoril> darkxst no, nothing meant about you - just me being older now
[05:30] <darkxst> aeoril, quite a few gnome apps are
[05:30] <darkxst> written in vala
[05:30] <darkxst> none of the core though, thats all pretty much C
[05:31] <darkxst> with a touch of JS, for the shell
[05:37] <aeoril> darkxst yes, I remember you mentioning I might be a good fit for parts of Gnome because of my Javascript background ...
[05:37] <aeoril> I have C and Javascript, so might be a good match (I could learn Vala)
[05:38] <darkxst> its not really standard JS, somewhat customised
[05:39] <darkxst> its the firefox spidermonkey engine with a bunch of custom hooks
[05:39] <aeoril> darkxst I was just about to ask the question to your answer :)
[05:39] <darkxst> aeoril, there you go, upstream want me to maintain gjs
[05:41] <aeoril> darkxst hmmm ... I had aspirations of Kernel/Driver, then tech writer, now gjs - oh me oh my, so many choices!  What to do! :D
[05:41] <darkxst> gjs is 100% C
[05:42] <darkxst> but it enable the custom JS bindings, most of the code if enababling gobject-instrospection
[05:42] <darkxst> s/if/is/
[05:43] <darkxst> aeoril, just do what you enjoy!
[05:44] <aeoril> darkxst I am very fortunate - I enjoy just about everything technical!
[05:44] <darkxst> (I've been pulled from that a little, given the lack of manpower in Ubuntu GNOME ;( )
[05:54] <aeoril> darkxst infinity I'm off to slumberland.  Thanks again for all you help yesterday and today.  Good night.
[05:54] <aeoril> your*
[06:40] <dupondje> Just installed the new Ubuntu, but something should be changed in the installer imo.
[06:40] <dupondje> It asks crypt password BEFORE it asks keyboard layout
[06:41] <dupondje> So you need to enter a password before your keyboard is set correctly (ok you can change it manually in the menu bar .. but not that user-friendly)
[07:43] <Noskcaj> dupondje, Since not everyone is around at the moment, could you please file a bug asking for that to be changed?
[13:11] <psusi> could someone please merge this fix for a critical bug before the 15.04 release?  It's been waiting for quite some time: https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/vivid/grub-installer/fix-efi-multi-disk-installs/+merge/247772
[13:52] <tjaalton> hm no psusi.. uploaded grub-installer with that fix
[19:09] <tjaalton> psusi: i've uploaded the fix
[20:17] <psusi> tjaalton, thanks
[20:20] <psusi> now if someone more familliar with ubiquity could take a look at this release critical blocker of a bug, that would be great: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1418706
[20:20] <psusi> I have a strong suspicion that the underlying breakage is more far reaching than the simple use case in which it was originally detected, which alone is very serious


[00:51] <Darkwing> Yay! Got approved for sponsorship at UDS
[00:51] <Darkwing> Bay Area, here I come :D
[00:51] <pleia2> congrats :)
[00:52] <Darkwing> How much is BART from SFO to Oakland?
[00:52] <Darkwing> Approx?
[00:52] <broder> http://www.bart.gov/tickets/calculator/index.aspx says about $8 or $9
[00:53] <broder> err, sorry, that's round trip
[00:53] <Darkwing> That's not bad. I'll call my cousin and see if he is busy that sunday. He lives in Berkley
[00:54] <pleia2> Darkwing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/uds-project/+bug/929014
[00:54] <pleia2> has bart info
[00:54] <pleia2> clearly I tried, unsuccessfully, to get it on the actual UDS page
[00:55] <pleia2> "wishlist" and forgotten! oh well :)
[00:55] <Darkwing> 42 minutes??
[00:55] <pleia2> it's faster than driving
[00:55] <Darkwing> I think that will be longer then my flight :P:P
[00:55] <pleia2> takes about 25 minutes to get from SFO to downtown SF alone (where the Bay Bridge to Oakland lives)
[00:56] <Darkwing> Yeah, I know. I remember the area.
[00:56] <Darkwing> I'll ring my cousin and see what he is doing.
[01:05] <Darkwing> Change planes in Pheonix?!?!?!
[01:05]  * Darkwing thwaps the travel people
[20:37] <philipballew> does the Amtrak let off in an easy location compared to this may's UDS?
[22:14] <BotenAnna> where is UDS?
[22:14] <pleia2> Oakland
[22:14] <BotenAnna> not sure about that far north :X
[22:14] <pleia2> (downtown, near 12th street bart)
[22:14] <BotenAnna> i only know about LA and southward amtrak, ha
[22:15] <broder> it looks like the amtrak station for oakland is about a dozen blocks away from the nearest bart station
[22:15] <BotenAnna> there might be a bus? but still, ick if so
[22:16] <pleia2> amtrak itself does do some busing around the area, but I don't know specifics
[22:23] <philipballew> I was going to bring my bike to uds so I might be able to ride it and pull my suitcase behind.
[22:23] <philipballew> what a sight that would be
[22:29] <bkerensa> pleia2: Do you think taking Amtrak to Jack London Sq is best?
[22:29] <bkerensa> pleia2: I have decided not to take a plane :)
[22:47] <pleia2> bkerensa: I don't know oakland well enough to be helpful
[22:52] <BotenAnna> ok fun question time
[22:52] <BotenAnna> a while ago i found out you could change the sudo prompt
[22:52] <BotenAnna> like when it asks you for a password
[22:53] <BotenAnna> it looks like this now for me:
[22:53] <BotenAnna> anna@botenanna:~$ sudo grep -i operator /root/.*
[22:53] <BotenAnna> OPERATOR OVERRIDE:
[22:53] <BotenAnna> OVERRIDE FAILURE
[22:53] <BotenAnna> OPERATOR OVERRIDE:
[22:53] <BotenAnna> problem is, i cant figure out how i did this now
[22:53] <BotenAnna> does anyone know?
[22:54] <DonkeyHotei> lol
[22:54] <bkerensa> pleia2: Do you know by chance if the hotel will at least be in Oakland? :P the agency is asking which city I should disembark at
[22:55] <pleia2> bkerensa: http://uds.ubuntu.com/event/ has all the details, scroll down to "Venue"
[22:56] <pleia2> it's being held at a hotel, people are staying at that hotel and the one across the street from it
[23:00] <broder> oh, hmm, is the hotel full already or something?
[23:04] <erichammond> Looks like I'll also be attending UDS (sponsored).  Now I need to figure out which days I should go.
[23:04] <pleia2> broder: they knew it would, the conference hotel is small
[23:04] <pleia2> they're both marriot, this is not uncommon for them
[23:04] <pleia2> at that venue
[23:05] <broder> oh, ok
[23:20] <bkerensa> pleia2: So in the e-mail it said Canonical will pay for 6 days from Sunday (day before event) does that mean I must checkout on Friday last day of event or Saturday morning?
[23:21] <pleia2> bkerensa: most people spend Sunday night through Friday night there
[23:21] <pleia2> so you check out Saturday morning
[23:21] <bkerensa> pleia2: ok :)
[23:22] <pleia2> so what they mean is 6 nights :)
[23:22] <pleia2> in hotel speak
[23:23] <bkerensa> pleia2: ok excellent :) I just am trying to make it so I dont have to wander in Oakland between checkout and my trip back
[23:23] <bkerensa> :)
[23:24] <bkerensa> I dont like Oakland too much
[23:24]  * pleia2 doesn't like wandering around Oakland much
[23:25] <bkerensa> pleia2: If there is a long gap I might just go into SF and eat moar sushi
[23:25] <bkerensa> apparently Amtrak has a weird schedule
[23:25] <philipballew> im gonna bring my bike, but Im afraid to lock it up anywhere
[23:25] <pleia2> yeah, you can drop off your stuff at the hotel and they can hold on to it for you before 3PM checkin
[23:26] <pleia2> philipballew: you might call the hotel and see if they have bike parking (still risky and I'm sure they don't accept liability, but they may have a place in their car garage)
[23:26] <philipballew> If they dont, I might have to leave it in the room. baring roomate does not mind
[23:27] <pleia2> hehe
[23:27] <bkerensa> philipballew: I know my way around the bay area so if were early we could go catch food or something together
[23:27] <bkerensa> :D
[23:27] <bkerensa> I just try and avoid Oakland... Especially East Oakland
[23:27] <pleia2> we had someone steal a bike from the 4th level (4 stories down!) of our parking garage here where I live
[23:27] <bkerensa> :P
[23:27] <pleia2> it was sad
[23:28] <philipballew> bkerensa, that sounds perfect. I was going to leave Auburn Sunday morning
[23:28] <pleia2> caught them on the camera casing the place, and then coming back to steal an expensive bike, police have the full report (and photo from camera!)
[23:28]  * pleia2 is glad her bike is not super expensive
[23:28] <pleia2> it's a nice bike, but not $2k nice :)
[23:28] <philipballew> yeah, I try to make mine look cheeper then it really is
[23:29] <bkerensa> philipballew: Im waiting for the agency to let me know when I will arrive Sunday... But I did just give them the stations I prefer and so it should be final soon
[23:29] <bkerensa> philipballew: are you sponsored or coming on your own?
[23:29] <philipballew> I called the station and asked for greg or whatever it was and he was gone
[23:29] <philipballew> Im sponsored
[23:31] <philipballew> I may just email him
[23:32] <philipballew> bkerensa, when were you leaving portland
[23:35] <bkerensa> philipballew: Apparently I will be leaving Portland on Saturday night arriving sometime on Sunday
[23:35] <bkerensa> :)
[23:35] <bkerensa> philipballew: You know they allow preferenced room pairing
[23:36] <philipballew> they did, that is a good idea bkerensa
[23:36] <philipballew> I like that
[23:37] <bkerensa> philipballew: Greg Dawson? Yeah they had some other person e-mail me and said they will book soon
[23:38] <philipballew> I think so. I need to email him today still. i'm reading a book first. well avoiding reading a book...
[23:42] <philipballew> bkerensa, If im taking thr train I dont need to hurry that much on travel
[23:42] <bkerensa> philipballew: :) trains have food and booze car and hopefully wifi
[23:43] <philipballew> I took the train from sd to la 3 weeks ago and I can comfirm they had wifi and power outlets
[23:44] <bkerensa> nice
[23:45] <philipballew> Food is expensive there probably. But thats just my opinion
[23:47] <philipballew> my trip will be only like three hours. much less time then my public transit rout I made to the bay that only costs like 10 dollars
[23:47] <philipballew> only downside is its 8 hours
[23:51] <bkerensa> philipballew: I plan on budgeting like $300
[23:51] <bkerensa> for food and drink when Im there
[23:51] <bkerensa> :D
[23:53] <philipballew> im budgeting 20 in Case people want to go out to eat. other then that I will find hotel breakfast food, and Ill bring top romen
[23:53] <philipballew> i think its a really bad idea, but what the hell
[23:53] <bkerensa> philipballew: Well I believe UDS has Breakfast and Lunch.... Or so I was told.... I think you get a Per Diem for Dinner and also can expense your taxi?
[23:53] <bkerensa> idl
[23:54] <bkerensa> I plan on Walking from Jack London Square to the Hotel
[23:54] <bkerensa> if I go to SF I will take the Bart and then Muni
[23:54] <philipballew> thats not that bad. I think that thats pretty doable
[23:54] <pleia2> breakfast and lunch are provided, along with lots of snacks throughout the day
[23:55] <bkerensa> I know someone from our loco said he spent about $125 just on taxi when he went to Orlando but Canonical reimbursed him for that and also gave him like $25 per dinner?
[23:55] <bkerensa> idk
[23:55] <bkerensa> yeah
[23:55] <pleia2> mon, tues and friday usually have food (at least heavy appetizers) and beyond that you usually get a per diem of $30 or so for dinner
[23:55] <bkerensa> how could you not get food at a convention
[23:55] <bkerensa> pleia2: $30 for dinner is very generous
[23:55] <pleia2> you do need a credit card to check in to the hotel for incidentals
[23:55] <pleia2> (if it's a debit card, hotels usually put a couple hundred dollar hold)
[23:56] <bkerensa> pleia2: Will they take my bank card?
[23:56] <bkerensa> oh ok :)
[23:56] <bkerensa> pleia2: How does that work with rooms being paired?
[23:56] <pleia2> I always forget about this, someone always ends up having a problem as a result
[23:56]  * philipballew survives school caf food and late night dumpster dives
[23:57] <pleia2> bkerensa: most people are pretty honest, you should talk to canonical about expenses if your roomie eats the whole room bar and skips out on the bill
[23:58] <pleia2> bkerensa: don't quote me on $30 :) it may be $27 or $25 or something
[23:58] <philipballew> shoot, thats a nice amount
[23:58] <pleia2> dinner in cities is expensive
[23:58] <bkerensa> pleia2: No I was just wondering since rooms are paired as in shared does just one person need to have a credit card or both?
[23:58] <pleia2> bkerensa: both
[23:58] <bkerensa> ok
[23:59] <philipballew> i only have a debit card with like 50 bucks on it pleia2  :)
[23:59] <bkerensa> Well I have a Chase MasterCard Debit Card so I can try to sort out having an additional two hundred plus money for my expenses
[23:59] <pleia2> philipballew: you should mention that to the sponsorship person, they can help if needed