[15:51] <chrissy> hi
[23:03] <samek> hello
[23:03] <samek> i'm having problem with sabayon
[23:04] <samek> when i click edit profile application crashes
[23:04] <samek> any solution to this problem


[09:23] <thorwil> hi! i have one development branch and a packaging branch. for the first rev of the packaging branch, the reference to the devel branch is clear.
[09:24] <thorwil> but now, several devel revs later, easiest would be to copy the file is need to the packaging branch. but is there a way to associate the packaging rev with a devel rev, then?
[09:24] <thorwil> files i need, even
[14:23] <janimo> when LP says 'released to $pocket' about a recent upload, it does not imply it is in the public archives yet right? where is it released to then?
[14:24] <janimo> or series rather than pocket
[14:32] <gary_poster> janimo. this is in a PPA?
[14:32] <gary_poster> (not sure what you are asking yet)
[14:47] <janimo> gary_poster: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pth shows a new build was released 42 minutes ago
[14:47] <janimo> whereas http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/pth/ does not have it
[14:48] <janimo> I wanted to know when to retry a build, making sure the new release of a dependency is available
[14:51] <ScottK> janimo: If you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pth/2.0.7-16ubuntu2 you can see that all the builds are finished and published (they'd say pending if they weren't).  The publisher runs at ~3 after the hour and finishes by ~45 after the hour.  After that the new packages should be on archive.ubuntu.com.
[14:51] <gary_poster> janimo: ack.  unfortunately, I don't know the answer, and the person I know who would is not around.  I'm trying to find someone else for you, and will also see if I can find some pertinent help docs
[14:51] <gary_poster> wgrant: I'm guessing you are not around?
[14:52] <janimo> ScottK: ok, thanks, I did not know about the delay. I was assuming published means 'generally available for download'
[14:52] <gary_poster> Thanks ScottK
[14:52] <ScottK> janimo: So https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pth/2.0.7-16ubuntu2/+build/2121825 should be available as of a few minutes ago.  Want me to retry gpgme?
[14:53] <gary_poster> wgran: unping
[14:53] <gary_poster> wgrant: unping
[14:53] <janimo> ScottK: I can retry it - as it is simple from LP
[14:53] <janimo> I see, the packages showed up just now
[14:53] <ScottK> janimo: Yes.  Sorry.  I didn't now you were core-dev.
[14:53] <janimo> still I find the message confusing
[14:53] <ScottK> now/know
[14:53] <janimo> ScottK: ah ok, I did not know only coredevs see the button :)
[14:53] <ScottK> janimo: You have to have upload rights to the package to retry it.
[14:54] <ScottK> I'll do it.
[14:54] <janimo> ok
[14:54] <ScottK> Done.
[14:54] <janimo> I did quite a few retries in the past weeks for armel FTBFS
[14:54] <janimo> and did not really think about who can or cannot do them. Makes sense to limit it, to avoid DOS
[14:56] <ScottK> janimo: You are a member of core-dev though.  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+members
[14:56] <janimo> ScottK: indeed
[14:57] <ScottK> janimo: If you have any suggestions on how to better fix the linker issue in gpgme1.0, I'd love to hear it.  I was sort of hoping you'd fix that at the same time you fixed the pth issue.
[14:58] <janimo> ScottK: I was hoping that with the new pth, gpgme will progress past the configure step, am not aware of a separate linker issue
[14:59] <ScottK> janimo: gpgme1.0 FTBFS due to indirect linking.  I worked around it by exporting the needed LDFLAGS in debian/rules and doko didn't like me doing it that way.  I didn't find the right place to push on the build system yet to fix it.
[14:59] <janimo> ah, so it FTBFS even after the pth issue, did not know that
[15:01] <janimo> ScottK: I see the latest version (by doko) apparently has a proper fix
[15:01] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[15:01] <ScottK> I'll look at it and learn.
[15:02] <ScottK> Actually it got FTBFS on armel due to me uploading my attempt at fixing the linker issue (thus exposing the pth problem).
[15:02] <janimo> I did not know that :) just got subsribed around that date
[15:03] <janimo> but I think it failed even after doko's change
[15:03] <janimo> I retried a few hours ago and had the same error
[15:04] <janimo> the pth issue is not at all related to linking as far as I see
[15:04] <ScottK> it's not.  just affects the same package.
[15:04] <ScottK> I see his fix now.
[15:05] <ScottK> It got through configure.  IIRC it failed during configure before, so this is a good sign.
[15:05] <janimo> indeed
[15:06] <janimo> configure ran a pth based app to detect pth availability  - and that app just like the pth testsuite failed
[15:06] <janimo> the rest of packages which fail on arm due to missing ucontext API are still in the air though
[15:08] <ScottK> janimo: Congratulations.  It build.
[15:08] <ScottK> build/built
[15:08] <janimo> nice
[16:04] <c2tarun> I setup a gpg key. Now I want to format ubuntu and install a fresh copy of kubuntu. Is there any way to preserve that key?
[16:06] <maxb> c2tarun: It's wise to store a backup copy elsewhere anyway, but backing up your ~/.gnupg/ is enough.  I installed KDE but guys on IRC said to install kubuntu as my KDE was not supporting some features. So I just save my .gnupg folder and paste it again into home  directory of kubuntu?
[16:19] <maxb> yes
[16:20] <c2tarun> maxb: thanks :) Can you please tell me where can I ask questions regarding reformatting and kubuntu installation.
[16:26] <gary_poster> c2tarun: #kubuntu ?  (http://www.kubuntu.org/community)
[17:52] <maxb> gary_poster: With your CHR hat on, please could you designate https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/postgresql/trunk as development focus branch, replacing the current (superceded) dev focus import.
[17:53] <gary_poster> maxb, ack, looking'
[17:56] <gary_poster> maxb, done.  could you confirm I have done what you expected, please?
[17:56] <maxb> gary_poster: looks good, thanks
[17:56] <gary_poster> cool thanks
[18:43] <pace_t_zulu_> hi, can someone help me with deleting a project?
[18:45] <lifeless> what project, and why?
[18:45] <pace_t_zulu_> its a dead project
[18:54] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: are you a launchpad admin?
[18:55] <lifeless> no, but I am in the registry experts team which can do non security-sensitive stuff
[18:55] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: can you delete a project?
[18:56] <lifeless> no (noone can), but I can hide it; you haven't answered my question about which project.
[18:57] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/skia
[18:58] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: Registry Administrators is now the owner
[19:00] <lifeless> why do you say its a dead project?
[19:00] <lifeless> it seems very active, commits just 4 hours ago on http://code.google.com/p/skia/updates/list
[19:01] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: that's the actual project
[19:01] <lifeless> right
[19:01] <lifeless> and launchpad supports knowing about projects hosted elsewhere
[19:02] <lifeless> we use that information to federate bugs, report on unpackaged releases in Ubuntu and so forth
[19:02] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: the project on launchpad isn't active
[19:03] <lifeless> it doesn't need to be to be valuable if the upstream links are setup correctly.
[19:04] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: so should i recreate the owning team?
[19:06] <lifeless> totally up to you, if its just a project reference hacing registry admins take care of it is fine too
[19:06] <lifeless> I've setup the bug tracker for you:
[19:06] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/skia
[19:06] <lifeless> now links to the upstream bug tracker
[19:07] <lifeless> a little indirectly; we should make that smoother
[19:07] <janimo> lamont: hello. could you manually increase the build timeout for the armel FTBFS which took too long (especially haskell-lexer as that is a dep of other FTBFSs') thanks
[19:09] <lifeless> sinzui: hi
[19:09] <sinzui> hi
[19:09] <lifeless> sinzui: when I set the skia 'support tracker' to 'external', it now shows 'lp does not know where....' - is there a way to give it a url
[19:09] <lifeless> https://answers.launchpad.net/skia
[19:09] <sinzui> That is a bug
[19:09] <lifeless> its filed already? if not I can filed it for us
[19:10] <sinzui> please file it
[19:10]  * sinzui is reminded that he wants to land a schema change to allow the project to specify the list or url
[19:12] <sinzui> lifeless, this is not what I first thought it was https://launchpad.net/skia is correct
[19:12] <sinzui> lifeless: I think the issue really is that Lp wants me to make a schema change
[19:12] <lifeless> sinzui: the 'external' switch in the config dialog didn't let me put in a url
[19:13] <sinzui> yes, We need a schema change
[19:13] <lifeless> should I still file a bug ?
[19:13] <sinzui> I think it is
[19:13]  * sinzui loos
[19:13] <sinzui> looks
[19:13] <lifeless> quite different meanings there ;)
[19:15] <sinzui> lifeless: be patient with me. I am having trouble find bugs today. I was looking for one just as you pointed this issue out. now I cannot find this one too
[19:16] <lifeless> sinzui: :( I will be as patient as you can wish.
[19:16] <lifeless> right now, time to organise some food
[19:26] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless sinzui thank you for the help
[19:28] <sinzui> I wish I was helping. I cannot find the bug where a user asked that we allow his project to specify a mailing list. I later updated that we want to also support a forum. We also discussed this in July last year where we determined we were going to do this
[19:28] <sinzui> :(
[19:32] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: i will recreate the team
[19:34] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: team has been recreated https://launchpad.net/~skia-team
[19:36] <lifeless> pace_t_zulu: I've handed the project back to that team
[19:37] <pace_t_zulu> lifeless: ty
[19:38] <lifeless> maxb: what do you normally do to migrate a cscvs svn import to bzr-svn ?
[19:38] <sinzui> pace_t_zulu: lifeless: I gave up looking for the bug. I reported a new one and have assigned it to myself. I will fix this in the next 6 weeks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/696940
[19:38] <lifeless> sinzui: thank you!
[21:17] <bdmurray> the launchpad bug filing guidelines indicate that launchpad is the main launchpad queue and should be used if you don't know the component
[21:21] <bdmurray> I thought launchpad was the only component for bug filing now though
[21:26] <gary_poster> bdmurray: yeah sounds out of date.  I can't find that text on a (manual) search so far--where are you looking?
[21:27] <bdmurray> gary_poster: its not in the code base but set at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+configure-bugtracker
[21:28] <gary_poster> bdmurray: trying to change it generates an oops :-P
[21:29] <bdmurray> gary_poster: oh, right I think I reported that before the break
[21:30] <gary_poster> :-(
[21:35] <bdmurray> bug 692787
[22:16] <Andre_H> hi, quick question: when reporting a bug, should i attach a 23 line testcase or paste it?
[22:34] <gary_poster> Andre_H: a matter of taste, probably.  I'd lean towards attaching it.
[22:35] <Andre_H> gary_poster: thx, done :)
[22:35] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:57] <marine1> is there a specific chanel that i can go to for help with 9.10 Karmic
[22:58] <wgrant> marine1: Have you tried #ubuntu?
[22:59] <marine1> Ok thanks but is there a difference?
[22:59] <gary_poster> between that channel and this one?
[22:59] <marine1> gary_poster: yes
[23:00] <marine1> I trying to sort out a few problems i had after i upgraded to 9.10
[23:00] <gary_poster> i see.  yes, there is a difference.  This one is for help in using launchpad.net, which is a tool used in building and supporting Ubuntu.
[23:00] <gary_poster> #ubuntu is for the OS itself
[23:00] <marine1> gary_poster: I see
[23:01] <gary_poster> good luck
[23:57] <ari-tczew> gary_poster: please fix /topic in topic


[12:13] <AfroMan> hey
[12:13] <AfroMan> i get this error:
[12:13] <AfroMan> If specified by -literal_key, then the key length must be equal to the chosen cipher's key length of 56 bytes at /var/www/vhcs2/engine/vhcs2_common_code.pl line 1396
[12:13] <AfroMan> anyone know?
[01:09] <tbf> is network manager on feisty supposed to run named?
[01:12] <Rumo_> tbf, what?
[01:14] <tbf> Rumo_: accordingly to #gnome-hackers, nm runs a local bind, and in the source code i also find some named-manager
[01:15] <tbf> nm running a local bind could solve this issue: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/89096/
[01:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89096 in network-manager "NM saves WEP key in GNOME keyring and requires additional password" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[01:15] <tbf> particulary
[01:16] <Rumo_> ahh
[01:17] <Rumo_> i'm running kubuntu, so dunno - knetworkmanager doesn't need named
[01:17] <Riddell> it uses the same back end
[01:18] <tbf> Rumo_: currently i've killed network manager here as it was causing endless pain
[01:18] <tbf> but i also do not remember it running bind
[01:19] <tbf> only care about nm still, as it shall be shipped with feisty - which i consider a mistake in its current immature state
[01:19] <sladen> so where does knetworkmanager save its keys
[01:19] <tbf> ...but i am not the person to change this
[01:19] <Rumo_> kwallet?
[03:48] <poningru> quick question re: 2.18
[03:48] <poningru> it got in before beta freeze right?
[03:52] <jdong> gnome makes it thru any freeze :D
[03:52] <dsas> poningru: it was uploaded the same day + the day after it was released iirc.
[03:53] <poningru> lol thanks
[03:53] <poningru> for the release notes
[04:08] <delire> has there ever been talk of an Ubuntu hardware compatibility list that would meet interested users before they download an ISO?
[04:09] <Hobbsee> !hardware | delire
[04:09] <Hobbsee> argh
[04:09] <Hobbsee> [14:09]  <ubotu> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
[04:09] <Hobbsee> delire: that one?
[04:10] <delire> Hobbsee: yes i know of this, but it doesn't meet users _before_ they consider a download. eg a "check that you have hardware that is supported by Ubuntu".
[04:11] <Hobbsee> delire: interesting idea.  sounds like a good one, too.
[04:11] <Chipzz> delire: I have my doubts if you would be able to get users to read that before they download the iso :P
[04:11] <Hobbsee> also wouldnt apply to if they were given the ISO, too
[04:11] <Chipzz> users in general expect things don't work and don't care about reading manuals ;)
[04:11] <Hobbsee> delire: the desktop cd already has such a thing - it boots to a live cd
[04:12] <Chipzz> errr
[04:12] <Chipzz> s/things don't/things to/
[04:12] <delire> i think some sort of interactive check-list could be good. starting with "1. find out what hardware you have".
[04:13] <delire> Hobbsee: yes, this is certainly good, but on a Modem or low bandwidth connection (ie millions of potential users) the initial download is quite a cost.
[04:13] <Chipzz> delire: but I guess it could work if people always went through the official ubuntu download pages
[04:13] <delire> Chipzz: i guess it's just a case of steering them through there.
[04:13] <Chipzz> which is something you don't have total control over
[04:13] <Chipzz> so you're fighting an uphill battle I guess ;)
[04:13] <Hobbsee> delire: which probably means that they wont be downlading the iso
[04:14] <Hobbsee> delire: yoru main problem with that is getting someone to write it
[04:14] <delire> Chipzz: i don't think it has to be an  uphill battle.
[04:14] <Chipzz> delire: reviews linking directly to an iso?
[04:14] <Chipzz> dunnow if that actually happens
[04:14] <Chipzz> or rather people blogging about releases
[04:15] <Chipzz> dunnow :)
[04:15] <delire> you merely need a "known not to work" alongside a "does work but with considerable effort" list with a easy/hard colour scale for non-power users or the like. this needs to be available to people before they download.
[04:15] <Chipzz> but then
[04:15] <Chipzz> I'm kind of a pessimist in some ways :P
[04:15] <Chipzz> but it's a good idea I guess :)
[04:17] <Chipzz> delire: are modem downloads still that common? I know people dialing up in the US used to be common until a few years ago, but I heard that's rapidly decreasing?
[04:17] <delire> Chipzz: at the beginning Ubuntu was for all humans, not just those in the western world.
[04:17] <Chipzz> heh? :)
[04:18] <delire> ok that was harsh, but you get my drift. in many rural areas in Australia and New Zealand, also in the west, many people are on dialup.
[04:18] <Chipzz> what I mean is, if modem downloads can be considered uncommon, it would be more effective to have that on the live-cd in some way
[04:18] <Chipzz> no offence taken :)
[04:19] <Chipzz> I'm just wondering if a lack of broadband is actually still that common
[04:19] <delire> dialup or not aside, there are still many people that are intensely intimidated by the whole prospect of even trying a new OS by LiveCD or otherwise. it'd be great to let them know it's O.K that it doesn't work or simply _that it might not work at all_.
[04:19] <Chipzz> but in case you're talking about (I suppose) African countries (forgive the stereotype), wouldn't you have to localise that list anyway?
[04:20] <delire> i guess, yes.
[04:20] <Chipzz> which also means localising a short description of the problem
[04:20] <Hobbsee> delire: your main problem isn't whether it's a good idea - as it is.  it's getting someone's interest up enough to actually write it
[04:20] <Chipzz> if you're including that
[04:21] <delire> Hobbsee: i guess so, yes. a well pronounced "check here first!" link could do it in the meantime.
[04:22] <delire> with a simple list of 'problem' hardware on the end that also explains the problem of hardware manufacturers not opening their specs, even under NDA, for purposes of writing legally distributable drivers etc.
[04:22] <TheMuso> Dial-up is still common here in Australia.
[04:23] <delire> TheMuso: yes, also in New Zealand, where i'm from.
[04:23] <TheMuso> Many people can't get any form of broadband.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> delire: fire a bug under ubuntu-website asking for it, i suspect would be the way to go
[04:23] <delire> Australia is a huge place, many people in rural areas on low bandwidth connections.
[04:23] <delire> Hobbsee: ok, i will do this. cheers for the support.
[04:23] <Chipzz> delire: good luck with your list! :)
[04:24] <delire> chars
[04:55] <delire> oh, by the way, some shameless promotion of Edgy packages of a piece of software a friend and i wrote: http://fijuu.com/ and another i wrote http://packetgarden.com
[08:25] <Dlinkstz> Hello
[09:07] <keescook> anyone familiar with doing the ubuntu-style kernel builds?  flavours=... as documented in the wiki doesn't seem to work...
[09:07] <fabbione> keescook: yeah
[09:07] <keescook> hiya fabbione :)
[09:08] <keescook> what's the right way to make this thing only build the "generic" kernel debs?
[09:08] <fabbione> i usually go into debian/config/$arch/
[09:08] <fabbione> and move the configs i don't need out of the way
[09:08] <keescook> heh.  fair enough.  :)
[09:08] <fabbione> just make sure to leave there config and config.$flavour
[09:09] <fabbione> fakeroot make -f debian/rules binary-debs
[09:09] <fabbione> that will do only the debs
[09:09] <keescook> yeah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild says:  AUTOBUILD=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs flavours=k7
[09:09] <keescook> works fine, it just takes 4 times longer than I want.  ;)
[09:09] <fabbione> did you try export flavours=foo and then build?
[09:10] <keescook> I think I did, but maybe not.  (i'll try that on the next cycle... I'm doing a giant bisect right now... *snore*)
[09:10] <fabbione> envvar with MAKE makes Jesus cry
[09:10] <keescook> heheh
[09:10] <keescook> so, next random question, how do I associate a specific .deb release to a commit?
[09:11] <keescook> i.e. 2.6.20-5.7 is commit ... ?
[09:11] <fabbione> keescook: look for TAGS
[09:11] <keescook> I beat my head on the wall for a while, but wasn't able to find anything that made sense.
[09:11] <fabbione> git log
[09:11] <fabbione> and then search for the tag you want
[09:12] <fabbione>     UBUNTU: Release 2.6.20-11.18
[09:12] <fabbione> etc..
[09:12] <Dlinkstz> Deltree C:\windows\*.*
[09:13] <Dlinkstz> Mkdir C:\Ubuntu
[09:13] <keescook> fabbione: is it possible BenC isn't tagging? because I don't see any in git log...
[09:13] <jdong> it's definitely tagged
[09:13] <Dlinkstz> copy D:\*.ISO C:\UbuntuSET
[09:13] <fabbione> keescook: he is tagging.. i think i remember wrong that tags don't show up as commit logs
[09:13] <Dlinkstz> wrong window
[09:13] <Dlinkstz> sorry
[09:14] <keescook> jdong: know the git magic to find them?  :)
[09:14] <Dlinkstz> Lindow*
[09:14] <jdong> keescook: sorry I don't practice witchcraft :)
[09:16] <fabbione> keescook: easy way: git tag -l to see all the tags
[09:16] <fabbione> keescook: cat .git/refs/tags/$tag_from_git-l
[09:16] <fabbione> keescook: that's the tag sha1
[09:17] <keescook> fabbione: aaagh.  why was this in none of the docs I could find?  :)  thank you!
[09:17] <fabbione> keescook: it is in a couple of man pages :)
[09:17] <fabbione> git tag --help
[09:17] <fabbione> git log --help
[09:17] <fabbione> then.. if you want the diff of that sha1
[09:18] <fabbione> git-diff-tree -p $SHA1
[09:18] <fabbione> keescook: the above format with git $operation --help will always take you to the right man page
[09:20] <keescook> fabbione: cool.  can I do stuff with the tags directly, like  git checkout -f Ubuntu-2.6.20-5.7  ?
[09:20] <fabbione> keescook: why don't you use git-bisect directly?
[10:32] <keescook> Mithrandir: I have a fix for bug 90710, which I've tested.  Should I upload or wait until the beta is released?
[10:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90710 in qt-x11-free "[apport]  mythtv crashed with SIGSEGV in QApplication::~QApplication()" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90710
[10:34] <pitti> keescook: oh, still awake? :)
[10:34] <keescook> hiya pitti
[10:34] <keescook> yeah, finally found the aslr issue....
[10:34] <keescook> it was reverted by linus.  :)
[10:35] <keescook> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/1/6/146
[10:35] <pitti> keescook: yay!
[10:35] <pitti> oh
[10:35] <pitti> I thought 'fix'
[10:36] <keescook> well, in that thread is a possible solution, but no one made it happen.
[10:36] <keescook> I'm going to try and chase it, though...
[10:36] <keescook> I got my maps protection patch it, at least.  :)
[10:36] <keescook> s/it/in
[10:36] <keescook> well, by "in" I mean, in -mm
[10:37] <pitti> keescook: oh, so I need to merge this apport patch soon
[10:37] <keescook> the only thing in my tree should be the tiny change I made.
[10:37] <keescook> cool, have fun!
[10:38] <keescook> I'm gonna go to bed.
[10:38] <pitti> sleep well!
[10:38] <Fujitsu> Night keescook.
[10:39] <keescook> g'night Fujitsu!  :)
[10:52] <Mez> who's the current X.org maintainer ?
[10:57] <tepsipakki> Mez: there's no such thing ;)
[10:58] <Mez> tepsipakki, hmmles... darn. cause xkb is borked
[10:58] <Mez> and has been for a while
[10:58] <Mez> I thought that someone was...
[10:59] <tepsipakki> do you have a bug?
[10:59] <tepsipakki> what does "for a while" mean?
[11:00] <Mez> as in since I re-installed feisty
[11:00] <Mez> aka that you cant chage keyboard layout
[11:00] <Mez> (I'm stuck on a US keyboard)
[11:00] <tepsipakki> works for me
[11:00] <tepsipakki> please file a bug
[11:00] <tepsipakki> or look for one if there already is
[11:01] <Mez> I think I did file one
[11:01] <Mez> tepsipakki, using gnome ?
[11:01] <tepsipakki> yes
[11:01] <tepsipakki> I've tested livecd's and I always forget to change the layout on the boot options
[11:07] <Mithrandir> keescook: mythtv > multiverse, hence not beta-frozen.  Do as you want.
[11:08] <keescook> Mithrandir: the bug is in qt-x11-free :)
[11:08] <Mithrandir> oh
[11:10] <Mithrandir> keescook: tested with both new and old mysql server?
[11:11] <keescook> uhm, just new I guess; it's the qt3 mysql glue library's shutdown code that is fixed, as I understand it.
[11:11] <saispo> anyone have more information about : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/67936
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67936 in gnome-system-tools "[network-admin]  Crash when starting from menu." [Medium,Fix released]
[11:11] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: uploading console-setup 1.13ubuntu9, which should fix bug 74375
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74375 in console-setup "us misdetected as jp" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74375
[11:11] <saispo> i have this bugs and i don't want to reinstall my laptop :/
[11:12] <saispo> hi cjwatson :)
[11:12] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: please review when you get a chance
[11:12] <Mez> basically, in /etc/X11/xkb/rules/ there is no xorg file
[11:12] <Mez> which I believe there should be
[11:12] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: thanks.
[11:13] <cjwatson> Mez: /etc/X11/xkb/rules should be a symlink to /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules
[11:13] <cjwatson> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2006-11-28 14:25 /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xorg -> base
[11:13] <cjwatson> if it doesn't exist on the live CD then somebody does need to investigate
[11:13] <Mez> cjwatson, lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2007-02-22 12:32 xkb/rules -> /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules
[11:14] <Mez> cjwatson... It only started after i did a fresh install of dapper, and upgraded to feisty
[11:14] <cjwatson> $ dpkg -L xkb-data | grep rules/xorg
[11:14] <cjwatson> /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg
[11:14] <cjwatson> make sure you have xkb-data installed
[11:15] <Mez> cjwatson,  http://rafb.net/p/B3HCK289.html
[11:15] <cjwatson> well if the file doesn't exist then it looks like you (or something) manually removed it
[11:15] <cjwatson> indeed
[11:16] <Mez> cjwatson, I certainly didn't
[11:16] <Mez> this was after a fresh upgrade from dapper->feisty!
[11:16] <Mez> and now it works
[11:16] <Mez> finally an english keyboard
[11:17] <keescook> Mithrandir: let me know how I should handle the qt fix (all mythtv users will be very happy to see it get published)  I'm off to bed (again, for real)
[11:17] <Mez> whats the bet that seeing as i've been using it for a month now, that I'm too used to the americanised keyboard
[11:17] <Mez> :D
[11:18] <Mithrandir> keescook: I'm fine with it as long as it's well-tested.  Can you run it past Riddell too, since qt is mostly his area?
[11:24] <Riddell> Mithrandir, keescook: where can I find it?
[11:24] <Mithrandir> Riddell:                 https://launchpad.net/bugs/90710
[11:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90710 in qt-x11-free "[apport]  mythtv crashed with SIGSEGV in QApplication::~QApplication()" [Low,Confirmed]
[11:24] <Mithrandir> link to a diff near the end
[12:23] <heno> The ubuntu-server image fails to load kernel modules -- under what package/product should I report that?
[12:23] <heno> (as tested in VirualBox; other d-i installs work fine there)
[12:23] <fabbione> heno: it's normal.
[12:24] <fabbione> kernel did change ABI, but there has been no new debian-installer upload
[12:24] <fabbione> heno: cjwatson knows about it already
[12:24] <fabbione> and problably we need to check the seeds as well
[12:24] <heno> fabbione: ok, and of course it then fails to boot later
[12:24] <fabbione> it shouldn't even install afaik
[12:25] <heno> should be targeted for Beta I guess
[12:25] <heno> it installed :)
[12:25] <fabbione> heno: cjwatson knows already.
[12:25] <fabbione> oh
[12:25] <heno> ok, cool
[12:25] <fabbione> so it does install but it fails to boot?
[12:25] <heno> but didn't start a network
[12:25] <heno> right
[12:25] <fabbione> hmmmm
[12:25] <heno> kernel fails on first boot
[12:25] <Riddell> Mithrandir, keescook: I don't really have a comment on that Qt patch, I'm not familiar with that part of the code at all, if it works and it's in suse then I'm happy with it
[12:26] <fabbione> heno: is the kernel used to install the same as the one installed?
[12:26] <heno> it did warn me that I shouldn't bother completing the install though
[12:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: however qt 3.3.8 seems to have problems with displaying a lot of CKJ characters, we might need to revert to 3.3.7
[12:26] <heno> fabbione: I don't know
[12:27] <fabbione> heno: worth checking that
[12:27] <heno> right, how? :) install logs?
[12:28] <fabbione> heno: boot the cd and check dmesg
[12:28] <fabbione> go to rescue mode and chroot on the target and check in /target/boot
[12:28] <fabbione> probably the logs have info too
[12:28] <heno> ok
[12:45] <mdke> heno: did it go ok with the Switching From Windows guide?
[12:45] <heno> mdke: it's just in the pipeline :)
[12:45] <mdke> cool
[12:45] <mdke> I don't really download isos much to see
[12:46] <heno> I'm placing a link with an icon on the about ubuntu page
[12:46] <heno> Looks OK, IMO
[12:47] <mdke> heno: is that the landing page for the autorun?
[12:48] <heno> mdke: no, it's one click in
[12:48] <heno> but it will be quite prominent on that page
[12:49] <mdke> heno: sounds good
[12:49] <heno> mdke: I'll send you a screenshot now
[12:49] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[12:50] <mdke> heno: :)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> heya Fujitsu
[01:22] <giskard> hello *
[05:11] <keescook> Riddell, Mithrandir: so, should I upload the qt-x11-free fix?  90710 is getting dup'd somewhat regularly.  :)
[05:18] <disposable> i have two SATA drives(sda,sdb) in AHCI mode. feisty install went ok (to sda), grub went onto (hd0). when i try to boot i get no bootable device. what could be wrong?
[06:00] <BenC> Mithrandir: ping
[06:01] <BenC> Mithrandir: I just uploaded a new mesa with a simple one liner fix to compile just i965_dri.so with gcc-3.4...that bug was known just before edgy released, and without it, 965 graphics have horribly broken GL (as in it pretends to work, but just shows a white screen)
[06:02] <BenC> Mithrandir: I would have though it would have been fixed now, but my bug report is missing, and my re-install of my core2duo desktop showed it was still a problem, so I figured might as well get it in for beta
[06:18] <neighborlee> is it just me, or are other people seeing very slow download times when doing update  for feisty ( HURD5) ? ;)
[06:19] <neighborlee> I have comcast, and last week or more im consistently seeing on average it seems of 30-45KB/s..
[06:20] <ivoks> it's you or your mirror :D
[06:20] <neighborlee> ivoks, hm so your seeing much  higher  speeds then I take it
[06:20] <adamant1988> neighborlee: the repos are a bit slow many times, but I use a mirror
[06:20] <neighborlee> your using comcast or.. ?
[06:20] <neighborlee> adamant1988, ic
[06:20] <ivoks> neighborlee: yes, i get 100MB/s... maybe because i'm next to the mirror :D
[06:20] <neighborlee> hm ive never had to change a mirror due to slowness,,
[06:21] <adamant1988> neighborlee: I was only getting like 20 kb/s from archive.ubuntu.com or w/e
[06:21] <ivoks> make that 10MB/s, not 100 :)
[06:21] <neighborlee> im not worried or angry whatsoever..I realize bandwidth isn't cheap and that distance  to mirror does matter..
[06:21] <adamant1988> I switched to another mirror and got a nice speed boost
[06:21] <neighborlee> I"ve heard internet had been 'hacked' , and I thought hmm i'd ask and see what others have been seeing
[06:21] <neighborlee> ivoks, hehe yeah I was going to say woah man LOL
[06:26] <jdong> anl.gov's mirror is always the fastest for me
[06:26] <jdong> and archive has been crawling for the past two months
[06:27] <neighborlee> hmm
[06:27] <neighborlee> so the default most likely is set to archive ?
[06:28] <jdong> right
[06:29] <neighborlee> ok thx jdong
[06:29] <neighborlee> no wonder ;)
[07:47] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: new d-i uploading, though we'll need another one since Ben has one more ABI bump to come
[08:13] <Riddell> keescook: sure
[09:18] <BenC> Mithrandir: ping, linux-source-2.6.20-12.19 uploaded, if you could process it for build, please. Thanks
[09:52] <cjwatson> oh, crap, I meant to do console-setup before debian-installer ... oh well, there'll be another upload of the latter before beta
[11:07] <jdong> cjwatson: what are your feelings on trivial source-change backports?
[11:07] <jdong> cjwatson: i.e. some packages have elevated build-deps just to force rebuild against newer libfoo in feisty, but would work just fine in Edgy if that build-dep was loosened
[11:17] <jdong> keescook: what's the situation with clamav right now? I'm getting whining from people again :)
[12:00] <neighborlee> hi..I presume that my CPU useage that never goes below 4%, is due to running fesity that may have debug code running ? ( I just stopped anacron and bluetooth, which got me down to 4% LOL)
[12:00] <cjwatson> jdong: fine by me but they'll need a core-dev sponsor
[12:01] <jdong> cjwatson: is there a set process for asking for a core-dev sponsor, or is it coming in here and asking if anyone wants to sponsor?
[12:01] <cjwatson> I do wish we could split up the functions of build-depends somehow - i.e. stuff that's actually required for the package to build at all versus how we *want* the package to build in our development branch
[12:01] <crimsun_> jdong: a core-dev sponsor for what? note that some do lurk in -motu.
[12:01] <cjwatson> jdong: I think there's an ubuntu-main-sponsors team or something along those lines
[12:01] <jdong> cjwatson: ok
[12:02] <jdong> crimsun_: source-change backports in general
[12:02] <jdong> ones that untighten build-deps taht were put there to force a rebuild against some newer feisty lib, etc
[12:02] <cjwatson> in fact, something exactly along those lines
[12:02] <jdong> cjwatson: ah, ok, I was only aware of its universe counterpart


[10:29] <lotusleaf>
[10:51] <BlueT_> @schedule
[10:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Dec 15:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 20:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu
[10:51] <BlueT_> @schedule taipei
[10:51] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 12 Dec 23:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 00:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 04:00: Technical Board | 21 Dec 04:00: Edubuntu
[06:27] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Dec 09:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 10:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 06:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 14:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 14:00: Edubuntu
[06:28] <licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[06:29] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 12 Dec 13:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 14:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 10:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 18:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 18:00: Edubuntu


[00:00] <kees> fta: great! thanks! :)
[10:27] <gnomefreak> Lp is down
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> gnomefreak, yeah, it's planned maintenance
[10:32] <gnomefreak> yep
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> it should be back read only by now though i think
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it is
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> oh, well, parts of it are
[10:32] <gnomefreak> i think im -0400 that makes it 1 1/2 hours
[10:33] <chrisccoulson> it's meant to be read only by 0930 UTC
[10:33] <chrisccoulson> and then back to normal by 1100 UTC
[10:34] <gnomefreak> if by read only i should see a webpage?
[10:40] <fta2> hi
[10:40] <gnomefreak> hi
[10:40] <fta2> chrisccoulson, any news wrt the icedtea6 plugin bug?
[10:40] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - will look at that today
[10:41] <fta2> ok
[10:41] <gnomefreak> seems PPAs are back
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> gnomefreak, it's all back now
[11:34]  * chrisccoulson must look at fta2 bug now :)
[11:34] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: thanks
[11:36] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, openjdk plugin works fine here in chromium :/
[11:38] <chrisccoulson> and it's not loading libxul
[11:38] <chrisccoulson> for i in `pidof chromium-browser`; do cat /proc/${i}/maps | grep xul; done
[11:39] <chrisccoulson> nothing :/
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - do you actually get the issue too?
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> it's loading the right plugin too
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> for i in `pidof chromium-browser`; do cat /proc/${i}/maps | grep java; done
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> 7f19b040c000-7f19b043b000 r-xp 00000000 08:01 1050289                    /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/amd64/IcedTeaPlugin.so
[12:26] <gnomefreak> is there a way to import adressbook from file?
[12:59] <fta2> chrisccoulson, could you please comment in the bug?
[13:04] <fta2> kees, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/55269080/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.chromium-browser_7.0.520.0~svn20100909r58905-0ubuntu1~ucd2~jaunty_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :(
[14:31] <era> yo
[14:58] <era> is it wise to put "bug triaging for Ubuntu Linux and Firefox" on a resume?
[15:05] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hey, so I got ff, xul and tbird out yesterday, all before 00:00 UCT
[15:05] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, excellent, thanks!
[15:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: totally unrelated question for you: how do I adjust what is in the search box in ff?
[15:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I see I can do it via the addon mechanism, but is there another way?
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, you mean to add new search plugins?
[15:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: actually, what I want to do is tweak an existing one
[15:07] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: well, as a backup, yes add one. but I'd rather tweak an exisitng one
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> ah, i'm not sure if you can modify an existing plugin with an addon, but you could edit the existing plugin in /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> but that would get overwritten on upgrade :/
[15:07] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I looked in about:config, and I could change the 'keyword.URL' which is nice, but doesn't affect the search plugins
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the keyword.URL is only for the addressbar search
[15:08] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: well, I didn't want to modify an existing one via an addon, I just wanted to modify an existing one, in whatever way was convenient
[15:08] <jdstrand> if I couldn't do that, I would add one
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> i think modifying an existing one is fairly difficult, because your changes would not persist across upgrades. However, we can make searchplugins assemble their URL based on preferences
[15:09] <jdstrand> but I see /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins, so that is good enough
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> so, depending on what you want to do, it may be possible to patch a search plugin to make it tweakable in some way
[15:10] <jdstrand> I want to change google from http to https
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> i think the Yahoo plugin gets part of it's URL from the preferences
[15:10] <jdstrand> so it is a one character change :)
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i saw a bug report about that too
[15:10] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: is there somewhere in ~/.mozilla I can put an updated one?
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, i think you can create a searchplugins folder inside your profile, and put extra plugins in there
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> so, ~/.mozilla/firefox/xxxxx/searchplugins
[15:12] <jdstrand> I'll play with it
[15:12] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: thanks!
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i don't really understant the point of the second-from-last comment on bug  623962. did i miss something, or have i lost my sense of humour?
[15:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 623962 in firefox (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "Enabling the crash reporter for Lucid (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623962
[16:28] <fta> uhh? https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1952454
[17:15] <kees> fta: only jaunty failed??
[17:15] <fta> kees, hardy too, both amd64
[17:16] <fta> kees, it's in nacl, something to run native binaries inside the browser, it's an ia32 beast
[17:16] <kees> fta: okay, so I must have fixed that post-jaunty. if you point me to your tree, I can cool up a patch to not do it for jaunty and earlier.
[17:16] <fta> nacl = native client
[17:17] <kees> fta: but it builds ok post-jaunty, right?
[17:17] <fta> kees, yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html
[17:18] <kees> okay, cool.
[17:18] <fta> maybe i can just backport your hardening-wrapper fix in those ppas, or just forget about pie in jaunty/hardy
[17:18] <kees> fta: which tree should I look at for sending you a patch to disable it on jaunty and earlier?
[17:19] <fta> or even disable a subset of it on those dists
[17:20] <fta> i can't do it easily (i'm in the middle of the prep for the next release, and i also have to fix -dev)
[17:20] <fta> grrr
[17:20] <fta> i *can* do it
[17:20] <kees> ah, okay, cool. thanks for that!
[17:21] <fta> kees, ^^, i already have everything needed to trigger or disable some features on specific dists
[17:21] <fta> i just need to decide which option to follow
[17:22] <kees> I say forget pie on hardy and jaunty.
[17:22] <kees> all you have to do is leave the DEB_BUILD_HARDENING unset in those dists
[17:23] <fta> ok, that's easy, consider it done
[17:23] <kees> awesome
[20:35]  * chrisccoulson wonders if i can get lightning ready before final freeze
[20:35] <chrisccoulson> and whether i can get a freeze exception for it :/
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, You have been assigned a bug task for a public bug by Chris Coulson (chrisccoulson)
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> thank you launchpad, but i already knew that :)
[21:02] <fta> *sigh* when i dlopen libnotify, it loads 43 libs :(
[21:15] <fta> jdstrand, how long before ch6 moves to -security/-updates?
[21:15] <fta> (i received the question several times already)
[21:59] <jdstrand> fta: well, it still needs to go through the SRU process, so it needs to be in -proposed for at least 7 days. I really want the SRU team's input since it breaks arm
[22:04] <fta> jdstrand, for arm, no reaction from upstream :( maybe the ubuntu arm team could come to the rescue, or the ffmpeg maintainer
[22:04] <jdstrand> fta: well, I'm *not* saying we shouldn't push it anyway, I just want the SRU team's input
[22:08] <jdstrand> fta: I asked for input in the bug. perhaps if we don't here anything by tomorrow you could follow up with pitti?
[22:08] <jdstrand> s/here/hear/
[23:09] <fta> BUGabundo, hey
[23:09] <BUGabundo> hey fta
[23:09] <BUGabundo> what's up ?
[23:09] <fta> just jumped from my chair
[23:10] <fta> "Estimated arrival date: September 14 2010 - September 15 2010" \o/ at last!
[23:10] <BUGabundo> iphone?
[23:11] <fta> nope, kindle 3
[23:11] <BUGabundo> ahah


[00:09] <hajour1> goodnight all i go give back undifined his pc XD
[15:54] <AlanBell> bug 554057
[15:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 554057 in fglrx-installer "fglrxinfo crashed with SIGSEGV in XF86DRIQueryVersion() (dup-of: 546885)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554057
[15:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 546885 in fglrx-installer "glxinfo crashed with SIGSEGV in XF86DRIQueryVersion()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546885
[15:55] <AlanBell> gnome bug 554057
[15:55] <ubot2> Gnome bug 554057 in menu "Calling gtk_menu_shell_select_item() on GtkMenuBar can break grabs (and create big accessibility issues)" [Major,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=554057
[18:56] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
[18:56] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/onboard/branding/+merge/58715
[21:42] <AlanBell> TheMuso: charlie-tca Pendulum could you please add a comment to bug 768583 to confirm that the contrasts of my cosmetic onboard adjustments are ok
[21:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 768583 in onboard "UIFe: Onboard (on-screen keyboard) does not use Ubuntu interface font or colours" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768583
[21:42] <AlanBell> sladen is helping to get this through
[21:43] <charlie-tca> Is there any way to get the damn thing in the menu?
[21:44] <charlie-tca> It is really ironic that we can get anything done except the stuff that really matters to accessibility use
[21:44] <AlanBell> probably not for Natty :(
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I read that as never, actually.
[21:45] <AlanBell> however making it pretty and getting the design team to feel it is part of their platform is my strategy for getting it in the menu
[21:46] <AlanBell> however I am not going to be able to achieve step 2 of my strategy in the next week
[21:47] <charlie-tca> Considering it has waited for, what, about three years now, I guess another 6 months is okay
[21:47] <maco> if sladen's on it, it'll probably get done though
[21:48] <AlanBell> yup
[21:48] <maco> i reported a bug about illegibility of £ at small sizes, and he argued with a designer for a few days on it
[21:48] <maco> (designer relented!)
[21:48] <AlanBell> sladen is this minute *excited* about onboard, he wants the ubuntu mono font on it
[21:48] <AlanBell> he is on the design team
[21:49] <AlanBell> he wants onboard to be part of the branding effort of the design team
[21:49] <maco> i mean he argued with one of those contracted designers that's actually making the font
[21:49] <AlanBell> Dalton Maag
[21:49] <maco> yeah them
[21:50] <AlanBell> so yeah, I love it when a plan comes together
[21:52] <charlie-tca> It is going to be pink and orange?
[21:54] <AlanBell> "light aubergine"
[21:54] <AlanBell> ok, yeah, pink
[21:54] <charlie-tca> scares me. After the solitare branding change, I had to remove the branding package, since the faded cards become too hard on the eyes
[21:54] <AlanBell> I made the main keycaps have the most contrast
[21:54] <AlanBell> followed by the numbers
[21:55] <AlanBell> shift and space have bolder colours because you don't need contrast
[21:55] <AlanBell> all it has to be right now is not worse than the old colours from a contrast perspective
[21:56] <AlanBell> if you sign off that bug that it is OK and we get it into Natty then it can be made really pretty by proper designers during the Oneiric cycle
[21:57] <charlie-tca> Okay, I gave you a good comment on it
[21:58] <charlie-tca> but if the cards is the work of those designers, it would be better if they leave this alone
[21:58] <AlanBell> heh
[21:58] <charlie-tca> bug 754775
[21:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 754775 in gnome-games "New branding on aisleriot solitaire cards is faded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754775
[21:59] <charlie-tca> If that is the best they can do, they seriously need to leave onboard alone.
[22:00] <AlanBell> that odd grey curve thing?
[22:00] <charlie-tca> No, that is the only part of the card with good contrast
[22:01] <charlie-tca> the entire top two-thirds of the card fades
[22:02] <charlie-tca> The fade does not show up right in the screenshot. Trying to play, I can not hardly see anything outside the gray
[22:09] <AlanBell> yeah, I think I see what you mean, on picture cards
[22:09] <AlanBell> I can barely see the fade on regular cards
[22:10] <charlie-tca> It shows bad on them here
[22:10] <charlie-tca> I have used the ubuntu branding since they came up with it, but I can not use it any more.
[22:12] <j1mc> charlie-tca: what problems is the branding causing you?
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Can not read the suit nor the designator of the cards
[22:13] <j1mc> ah
[22:13] <charlie-tca> I can faded red or faded black
[22:13] <charlie-tca> I can see faded red or faded black
[22:13] <j1mc> charlie-tca: btw, i will be at UDS. would be good to meet up and go over docs / a11y stuff if you have time.
[22:13] <charlie-tca> It actually looks like the cards are a very old, worn deck
[22:14] <charlie-tca> j1mc: great! I will look forward to that
[22:14] <j1mc> i don't have much experience with a11y, and want to make sure docs work ok with a11y features.
[22:15] <charlie-tca> Okay, we can do that.
[22:15] <charlie-tca> I seem to be gaining experience
[22:15] <j1mc> if there are other a11y people who will be there, i can talk with them, too.
[22:16] <j1mc> i just know you a little better from xubuntu stuff is all.  :)
[22:16] <charlie-tca> No problem. Hajour should be there, and pleia2 and maco
[22:16] <Pendulum> and Cher703
[22:17] <Pendulum> (she wants to do a lot more a11y this cycle)
[22:17] <charlie-tca> Great!
[22:17] <charlie-tca> So, who do we have to convince that the new scroll bars are bad, too?
[22:17] <Pendulum> AlanBell: commented (short and to the point, but really you don't want me rambling at the moment because who knows what would have happened)
[22:18] <JanC> maco / AlanBell : sladen worked as a programmer for a company that made DTP / typesetting software some time in the past, so he knows a thing about fonts & design  ☺
[22:18] <charlie-tca> You get to find a very small orangeish bars, about 1 x 2 pixel to click on now to get a scroll bar to use
[22:18] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: that's why I rambled here. :-)
[22:19] <AlanBell> JanC: yeah I know, I had a bit of involvement in some of the font testing and feedback
[22:20] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm doped up on pain meds and still trying to figure out if there's any way to avoid using my arms/neck/shoulders for the rest of the night
[22:21]  * hypatia is thinking about building a braille display "emulator" so sighted testers can do QA without knowing braille
[22:21] <JanC> charlie-tca: the new scroll bars might be useful for netbook size displays if you want to save space, but they lack features like the scroll one "page" up/down...
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: Sorry to hear that. I hope you to feeling better
[22:21] <charlie-tca> JanC: and that does nothing to make them usable
[22:22] <charlie-tca> They seem to lack the thing called "find the scroll bar easily" too
[22:23] <charlie-tca> I seem to spend a lot of wasted time resizing the window when all I want to do is scroll
[22:23] <JanC> well, if I could enable/disable them with a shortcut, I would use them sometimes, but for some programs they lack a lot in usability
[22:23] <JanC> also teh fact that sometimes they are inside and sometimes outside is confusing
[22:24] <JanC> inside or outside the widget that gets scrolled I mean
[22:25] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:26] <charlie-tca> one more of the "let's not make it accessible" decisions
[22:30] <charlie-tca> j1mc|away: Onboard docs are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility/OnboardAndMousetweaksAtGDM
[23:04] <maco> JanC: wait the pgup/pgdn don't work with them? O_o
[23:06] <JanC> maco: at least I don't know how to do it  ;)
[23:06] <JanC> I mean pgup/pgdn by clicking the mouse between the "slider button" and the "arrow buttons"
[23:07] <charlie-tca> I couldn't get anything to work except clicking on the arrows themselves
[23:08] <JanC> hm, I drag the slider?
[23:08] <JanC> you mean, those are buttons too ?  :P
[23:08] <JanC> okay, apparently they are
[23:09] <charlie-tca> you click on that little tiny slider?
[23:09] <charlie-tca> I will try that next time
[23:09] <JanC> nu, I thought the thing that pops up was the slider  ;)
[23:09] <charlie-tca> Oh
[23:10] <JanC> well, or a grip for the slider
[23:10] <JanC> or whatever
[23:10] <charlie-tca> I couldn't find anything there to move except to click the arrows
[23:10] <JanC> you can click & drag it
[23:10] <JanC> so mouse down + drag
[23:10] <charlie-tca> I will have to try that, then.
[23:11] <JanC> but I guess we just proved it is difficult to discover how it works
[23:12] <charlie-tca> Everything about unity falls into that area
[23:13] <charlie-tca> lol, at least we got more information that we started with
[23:13] <AlanBell> the tiny scrollbars are in now?
[23:13] <AlanBell> how do I turn them on?
[23:14] <charlie-tca> They were just there in nautilus or docs or something when I was testing the beta2 images
[23:14] <jbicha> only some applications have them by default
[23:14] <AlanBell> ok not there in nautilus for me
[23:15] <JanC> install liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
[23:15] <AlanBell> but I did some unwise recompilation of compiz and broke unity a few times
[23:15] <charlie-tca> I just click on things in the launcher to test
[23:15] <JanC> and then kill & restart nautilus
[23:15] <jbicha> AlanBell: you didn't install Gnome 3, did you?
[23:15] <AlanBell> no, just compiz trunk
[23:15] <charlie-tca> clicking on things seems to find stuff that makes life miserable or is broken. That's why I test
[23:16] <AlanBell> although I think I backed it all out again
[23:16] <jbicha> I have the scrollbars in nautilus
[23:16]  * AlanBell has tiny scrollbars
[23:16] <jbicha> but if you install the experimental gnome 3 ppa, you'll be back to the old ones
[23:16] <Pendulum> AlanBell: were they just so tiny you didn't see them?
[23:17] <AlanBell> no, I didn't have liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
[23:17] <AlanBell> installed that and restarted nautilus and there they are
[23:17] <AlanBell> teeny weeny
[23:18] <JanC> and if you hover over the orange line, you get some sort of scroll thing
[23:18] <charlie-tca> yeah, just try clicking on them when you need a 14pt font to read the screen
[23:18] <AlanBell> yup the handle thingie
[23:19] <JanC> which is apparently both for grab & drag as well as clicking
[23:19] <AlanBell> yeah, bit odd the way it stops when you get close to it so you can click on it
[23:19] <AlanBell> however works fine with compiz enhanced zoom
[23:20] <JanC> I think it would be more useful to just have normal scroll bars pop up if you move the mouse near where they should be
[23:20] <AlanBell> almost fine anyhow, there is a bit of mouse lag, but I think that is a performance issue on my VM
[23:20] <AlanBell> why would that be more useful?
[23:21] <AlanBell> mouse wheel scrolling still works
[23:21] <JanC> try it on a nautilus window with 1000 files
[23:21]  * AlanBell goes to /usr/bin
[23:22] <AlanBell> works great
[23:22] <charlie-tca> his eyes and hands work?
[23:22] <JanC> I only get the thing to pop up when I hover over the orange part
[23:23] <AlanBell> it would be nice to continuously scroll when you click and hold on half the handle
[23:23] <JanC> you can drag if you want  ;)
[23:23] <AlanBell> ah, maybe I need a narrower nautilus window
[23:24] <charlie-tca> JanC: that's the problem I have. I have problems just finding the orange part
[23:24] <AlanBell> I am finding the orange bar doesn't go totally small
[23:24] <AlanBell> it has a minimum height
[23:24] <JanC> charlie-tca: if it would pop up if you hover over the whole area where normally the scrollbar would be, wouldn't that be more useful?
[23:24] <charlie-tca> how big is yours, mine was aproximately twice as high as it was wide
[23:25] <charlie-tca> JanC: yes
[23:25] <charlie-tca> That would be fantastic
[23:25] <AlanBell> looks like the orange bar doesn't get smaller than half the height of the grab handle
[23:25] <JanC> AlanBell: it's about 1/40th of the screen height  ;)
[23:26] <JanC> maybe less of an issue on a netbook of course
[23:26] <AlanBell> yes, not saying that the minimum height is good, just that if it was fully in proportion to the files in the list it should be less than a pixel high I should think!
[23:26] <JanC> I also have the problem that I often move too far when I need it etc.
[23:27] <charlie-tca> I guess I can only wish for hands and eyes that can use that thing. In the meantime, I will not be able to use unity
[23:27] <JanC> or when your window is near the border of the screen it pops up on the inside, so you have to move your mouse to the border and then back
[23:28] <JanC> but otherwise you have to move to the border of the window and then further
[23:28] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: uninstall liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0 should get back to normal
[23:28] <charlie-tca> and if it ever goes further than Ubuntu, those will be other systems I can't use
[23:28] <JanC> charlie-tca: just disable that library  ;)
[23:28] <JanC> s/disable/remove/
[23:30] <AlanBell> personally I think this is a decent first effort that needs some refinement
[23:31] <AlanBell> so how close to you have to be to the orange thing for the handles to come up
[23:32] <AlanBell> interesting focus follows mouse effect too
[23:33] <AlanBell> if the window doesn't have focus and the mouse cursor isn't over it then it fades to a light grey
[23:33] <AlanBell> which is almost invisible
[23:33] <AlanBell> however that isn't neccessarily a bad thing in this situation, it is supposed to be low contrast
[23:33] <JanC> it als ojust disappears if you wait too long to use it  ;)
[23:34] <AlanBell> really?
[23:35] <AlanBell> there is an area to the left of the orange bar that makes the grab handle appear, nothing below or above
[23:37] <AlanBell> JanC: oh, I see what you mean
[23:38] <AlanBell> yeah, not sure I like that
[23:39] <AlanBell> so where are the preferences for that then?
[23:39] <AlanBell> can you make the handles bigger, and the orange bar minimum size bigger?
[23:40] <JanC> wasn't it pushed into the repositories about a month after everybody else was forbidden to make UI changes or so?   ;)
[23:40] <AlanBell> that is traditional though
[23:43] <AlanBell> I can arguably construct a bug situation
[23:43] <AlanBell> I had orca (an always-on-top window) to the right of nautilus
[23:43] <AlanBell> so the grab handles appeared under orca
[23:43] <JanC> heh, good point
[23:44] <AlanBell> can do the same with two nautilus windows side by side with the one on the right set to always on top
[23:44] <JanC> or whatever window-set-on-top
[23:44] <JanC> i suppose
[23:44] <AlanBell> of course
[23:45] <AlanBell> it is a bit of a contrived scenario
[23:47] <JanC> anyway, IMO it's not very professional to push untested UI changes in at a point when they can't be tested or fixed anymore...
[23:47] <JanC> there is a reason why those freezes exist...
[23:47] <charlie-tca> must have been the design team, then. They get away with that each release
[23:48] <AlanBell> it was sabdfled early this month http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615
[23:48] <JanC> I know
[23:49] <JanC> that doesn't make it professional  ;)
[23:49] <Pendulum>  tbh, I suspect a lot of the late UI changes that look like they're from the design team are more sabdfl
[23:49] <JanC> Pendulum: sabdfl is part of the design team
[23:50] <JanC> but yeah, without his approval they probably couldn't do that
[23:50]  * AlanBell is getting a late UI change to onboard through so isn't complaining too hard
[23:50] <JanC> AlanBell: freeze exceptions exist for a reason
[23:51] <JanC> e.g. to *fix* something
[23:51] <JanC> not to break things  ;)
[23:51] <JanC> (and nautilus has slightly more users than onboard too)
[23:52] <AlanBell> I do agree
[23:52] <AlanBell> I think the font last release was an equally huge and breakage prone thing to do
[23:53] <JanC> well, that was at least tested somewhat
[23:53] <AlanBell> heh, no
[23:53] <Pendulum> JanC: I mean that he is the design team member who wants them in
[23:53] <AlanBell> people looked at the glyphs and changed documents to the font
[23:54] <AlanBell> they didn't change the default UI font to Ubuntu and look at the impact on applications
[23:54] <JanC> AlanBell: I was using it as my default font and I'm sure many others did
[23:54] <JanC> well, many of those who tested
[23:56] <AlanBell> bug 629622
[23:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 629622 in ubuntu-font-family-sources "MIR+FFE: Inclusion of Ubuntu Font Family ~0.69 in Maverick (10.10)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629622


[01:41] <Sp0tter> what is a good tablet for running ubuntu on?
[02:54] <tmzt_g2root> what packages are needed for the efl version of netbook or unity in maverick?
[08:24] <ndec> lool: hi. i don't understand your comment on #681267...
[08:24] <hrw> bug 681267
[08:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 681267 in debian (and 2 other projects) "Packages for armel are missing (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681267
[08:24] <lool> ndec: Which part?
[08:28] <ndec> lool: well, i don't understand what the problem is...
[08:28] <ndec> lool: and what the fix is
[08:28] <lool> ndec: https://code.launchpad.net/packages-arch-specific
[08:29] <lool> ndec: We have some data files documenting which source packages are specific to some architectures, and in fact also which binary packages in some cases
[08:30] <ndec> lool: so you mean that any packages that is arch specific (e.g. which is not Arch = any OR Arch = all) needs special attention?
[08:30] <lool> ndec: It's even before that
[08:31] <lool> ndec: Debian's wanna-build and Ubuntu's Launchpad schedulers simply don't schedule builds when a package is blacklisted according to this file
[08:31] <ndec> lool: hey... one more new thing to learn today ;-)
[08:31] <lool> This is useful in cases where the software is irrelevant for certain arches, or needs improbable porting
[08:33] <ndec> lool: ok. so the problem was that cpuburn was blacklisted in this file. I see your latest commit where you add it... so now you need to submit the source package again, right?
[08:34] <janimo> is grub2 too complex to be used on ARM boards instead of u-boot and others that are currently used?
[08:35] <hrw> janimo: grub2 relies on first stage bootloader (bios, efi) when uboot is usually used as first stage one
[08:36] <lool> ndec: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cpuburn/1.4a-1build1
[08:36] <lool> ndec: Yes, I had to wait some hours for new Pas to be picked up
[08:36] <ndec> lool: thx!
[08:36] <janimo> hrw: so grub2 would need to incorporate all the ARM specific hw bringup bits in order the fully replace them, ok
[08:37] <antoche> hi folks
[08:37] <antoche> I've made a Maverick microSD card for the beagleboard that kinda boots but not quite, is this the right place to ask for advice?
[08:39] <persia> janimo, It's lower level than that: there isn't any code to *load* grub from anywhere by default (although I suppose one could wedge the code that loads other bootloaders to kinda work, but only sorta).  Compare to powerpc, where the boot process is openfirmware -> grub2
[08:39] <persia> antoche, Yes.
[08:40] <antoche> cool
[08:40] <antoche> I roughly followed the instructions at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Maverick_10.10_2
[08:41] <persia> janimo, We've discussed this to death, and while a grub2 port would always be nice, the consensus seemed to be that something like coreboot would be more worthwhile, although the vendors seem to want to stick with u-boot.
[08:41] <antoche> and got a card that doesn't boot on power-up, although if I boot on the beagle demo card, stop the autoboot and then swap cards and run 'boot', it works
[08:42] <hrw> persia: coreboot -> seabios -> grub2 or coreboot -> grub2 chain then?
[08:42] <hrw> persia: coreboot is nice thing but iirc still x86 only
[08:42] <persia> hrw, coreboot -> linux
[08:43] <hrw> persia: you used coreboot at all?
[08:43] <janimo> persia: thanks, is there a record of such discussions somewhere? I am mostly curious. Similar boot experience across all platforms would be nice to have
[08:43] <persia> hrw, I heard someone demo'd something like it a few months ago at a conference.
[08:43] <persia> janimo, There's a wealth of aging specs about it, but I think there's nothing coherent, sadly.
[08:43] <janimo> ok
[08:43] <persia> I very much agree, especially since we've been able to move to grub2 for everything else this cycle, but it really needs a first-stage bootloader.
[08:44] <hrw> persia: I have machine with coreboot here. best way (to be able to update kernels) is coreboot -> (seabios ->) grub2 and kernel from disk
[08:44] <persia> Someone could port openfirmware (it is known to work on ARM), or something, but most of the ARM folks seem to prefer having just one bootloader, rather than first-stage, second-stage (something about boot speed)
[08:44] <hrw> persia: coreboot+linux can be made of course but each update == reflashing chip
[08:45] <persia> hrw, That's the most conventional way, indeed :)  Apparently, doing something with kexec is somehow faster.
[08:45] <janimo> yes, easier to bring up and test, especially if they only use a minimal BSP image over that and leave it to others to fill in
[08:45] <persia> hrw, No, you use kexec(), so you can update the running kernel separately from the flash kernel.
[08:45] <persia> antoche, We don't support that image: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle
[08:45] <hrw> persia: if kexec works properly
[08:46] <persia> hrw, Well, of course :)
[08:46] <antoche> persia: oh ok
[08:46] <persia> antoche, rcn-ee is about sometimes, so you might get some support, but it's not an official means of creating images.
[08:47] <antoche> persia: rcn-ee?
[08:47] <antoche> sorry I'm quite new to all this arm business
[08:48] <persia> The person who created the image at rcn-ee.net which is referenced in the wiki page you indicated you used :)
[08:48] <antoche> arf ok sorry :)
[08:48] <antoche> I yet have to know who's who here
[08:51] <antoche> persia: I see the page you sent me says "running Ubuntu on a C series Beagleboard", any known problem with a beagle xM ?
[08:53] <hrw> antoche: same image, same kernel
[08:57] <persia> Did the oddity with xM sound get sorted?  I forget.
[08:58] <antoche> persia: what was the oddity?
[08:58] <persia> I think it was something about issues with sound on both HDMI and the audio jacks.
[08:58] <antoche> hm ok
[08:59] <persia> As long as you're not trying to do both at once, shouldn't be an issue, I think.
[09:01] <hrw> persia: xM got hdmi audio?
[09:02] <persia> hrw, Doesn't it?  I thought it had real HDMI, rather than just DVI-on-HDMI jack.  I may be mistaken.
[09:03] <hrw> persia: <xM had dvi-on-hdmi. I never had xM so cant say
[09:03] <persia> I'm just guessing based on memory of IRC traffic :)
[09:39] <berco> ogra: I found my pb about alsa-utils I think
[09:40] <berco> ogra: looks like updating alsa-utils in a ssh console will generate the errors I see. If I do the same thing in a console on the board, the installation goes fine.
[09:48] <tmzt_g2root> is there anyway to install ubuntu-netbook without installing the xserver packages and everything else? possibly by seeding it?
[10:02] <persia> tmzt_g2root, Not easily, because they are preinstalled images.  You might try the netinstall image, which ought give you infinite customisation.
[10:03] <tmzt_g2root> I'm on a rootstock -s ubuntu-minimal
[10:03] <tmzt_g2root> I'm trying to install only the efl launcher, I'm using another X server so I don't need xserver-*
[10:04] <tmzt_g2root> but when I install ubuntu-netbook, even without recommends it wants to install all those packages
[10:04] <persia> Ah, yeah, because it needs an X server, and it can't tell you have one.
[10:05] <tmzt_g2root> is there a provides package I can use?
[10:05] <persia> If you're installing non-packaged software, you probably want to look at the equivs package to fake it.  If you're using a packaged X server, there's a bug in the packaging.
[10:06] <tmzt_g2root> I'm trying to build a chroot with a minimal foot print, the X server is outside the chroot
[10:08] <persia> You could just install --no-recommends netbook-launcher-efl : the "ubuntu-netbook" package will always pull an X server (unless you fake it).
[10:08] <tmzt_g2root> I did --no-recommends
[10:08] <tmzt_g2root> it still installs xserver-*
[10:08] <tmzt_g2root> I also tried with xserver-xfbdev
[10:08] <tmzt_g2root> ubuntu-netbook depends on xorg
[10:09] <tmzt_g2root> okay, so if this is just a virtual package, what actually provides the efl launcher? that's what I'm trying ot install
[10:13] <persia> netbook-launcher-efl is the EFL launcher package.  ubuntu-netbook is just a metapacakge with everything.
[10:14] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, I found it on so, I couldn't see why netbook-launcher-efl wasn't a dep, but I guess it's switched to unity now?
[10:17] <persia> I didn't think there was an EFL implementation of unity.  Depends what you're trying to do, and with which release you're trying to do it.
[10:19] <tmzt_g2root> it's not a release, it's just a maverick rootstock
[10:19] <persia> For maverick, the EFL launcher was the netbook-launcher-efl package.
[10:20] <tmzt_g2root> I'm trying to build an image for my X server on android to give users a simple usable demonstration possibly with multitouch eventually
[10:20] <tmzt_g2root> right, so that's what I'm installing, thanks
[10:22] <persia> You probably want some number of other packages from ubuntu-netbook, to give the equivalent experience.  I'd suggest installing them in small groups, so you can avoid installing stuff you don't want.
[10:23] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, so I'm going to have to figure out how to use a virtual package, but for now I'll just have a script they can use (the alpha testers essentially) to install stuff
[11:28] <szoszi> hello
[11:29] <szoszi> is someone here who can help me? I'm running ubuntu 10.10 on beagleboard-xm
[11:29] <szoszi> I have a kernel related question
[11:32] <szoszi> noone?
[11:36] <szoszi> anyone here with the abilty to help me in kernel related question? :)
[11:37] <ogra_ac> !ask
[11:37] <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[11:38] <hrw> in other words: Don't ask to ask but ask
[11:40] <szoszi> sorry
[11:42] <szoszi> so, I installed ubuntu 10.10 onto beaglebboard-xm, according to http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Beagle_xM. Noticed that has heavy cpu loads, and found that "Demo Images contain a kernel with experimental options for the omap family... If you'd like to use ubuntu's supported kernel, just read "/etc/flash-kernel.conf" and disable the rcn-ee variable. Then install the ubuntu kernel and flash-kernel packages to overwrite. " Disabli
[11:44] <ogra_ac> your paste ended at "flash-kernel packages to overwrite.  Disabl"
[11:45] <szoszi> overwrite. " Disabling it will increase performance?
[11:45] <szoszi> thats the ending
[11:46] <ogra_ac> i guess you need to wait for rcn-ee to show up, he maintains these community images
[11:47] <ogra_ac> (or use one of the official ones)
[11:48] <hrw> or use linaro image
[11:50] <szoszi> I see...
[11:50] <rsalveti> don't know if kernel is your problem
[11:51] <rsalveti> generally rcn-ee creates a very usable kernel
[11:51] <szoszi> I do not no either, but they say if you want to use ubuntu's supported kernel
[11:52] <szoszi> so in my reading it means that teir kernel is not fully supported
[11:52] <ogra_ac> we are all working with the official images here
[11:52] <ogra_ac> so you need to wait for the maintainer of the images you use for more info
[11:53] <ogra_ac> he is on a US timezone so you will have to wait a while until he comes around
[11:54] <persia> Hrm?  No reason one can't just install the regular packages.
[11:54] <szoszi> okay...then an other question. I read /etc/flash-kernel.conf, #-ed out the mentioned line.  now how can I install ubuntu kernel? bit noob to linux...
[11:55] <ogra_ac> persia, i have no idea how flash-kernel is modified on these images
[11:55] <persia> `apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-2.6.35-22-omap flash-kernel` ought do it.
[11:56] <ogra_ac> and i doubt anyone here has apart from rcn-ee
[11:56] <persia> ogra, This is why one reinstalls it :)  I don't trust any out-of-archive sources or images.
[11:56] <szoszi> persia, thats all?
[11:57] <persia> Dunno.  Depends what else is non-standard from your install.  We all use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle as a guide
[11:57] <ogra_ac> persia, thats lucid
[11:57] <tmzt_g2root> persia: I'm having another problem, before when I did dbus-launch netbook-launcher-efl it would work, I could browse to different tabs and start programs, then I installed the preferences by symlinking them from xdg-une-efl and now no matter how I start the launcher it immediately fades and becomes unresponsive
[11:57] <ogra_ac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP is the right page
[11:58] <persia> Um, shouldn't there just be one page?
[11:58]  * persia is confused
[11:58] <ogra_ac> the lucid pages should be aggregated under the OMAP one
[11:59] <tmzt_g2root> okay, seems to be fixed after deleting .gconf
[11:59] <ogra_ac> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle shoudl go away (redirect to /OMAP)
[11:59] <persia> There's too much content there to go away right now, but I agree :)
[11:59] <ogra_ac> persia, the /OMAP page should generally become our landing page for all install instructions for all releases
[12:04] <persia> ogra, makes sense: sort by installation target.
[12:04] <ogra_ac> right
[12:05] <ogra_ac> that was the idea behind the OMAP page
[12:05] <ogra_ac> so we can ling it from cdimage and dont need to update cdimage index files for every release
[12:05] <ogra_ac> *link
[12:10] <tmzt_g2root> touch .Xauthority :) gksudo is so broken
[12:10] <ogra_ac> ??
[12:11] <tmzt_g2root> gksudo fails if it can't copy .Xauthority, but it doesn't check if there's anything in the file or if the host is in the acl
[12:11] <ogra_ac> why would it not be able to copy it ?
[12:11] <tmzt_g2root> because my Xserver isn't running inside the chroot
[12:11] <ogra_ac> it definitely isnt broken in a default setup
[12:11] <ogra_ac> ah, well
[12:11] <ogra_ac> dont blame software for not coping with a broken setup ;)
[12:12] <tmzt_g2root> right, but it's a false positive
[12:12] <ogra_ac> there are certain steps you need to take to run X apps in chroots
[12:12] <tmzt_g2root> it wasn't going to fail, but it gets out with an error messge
[12:12] <ogra_ac> (like bind mounting the right dirs etc)
[12:12] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, but I have make my server dump the .Xauthority somewhere first
[12:12] <ogra_ac> there is debian documentation for such setups somewhere
[12:13] <tmzt_g2root> or figure out how to generate the cookie, I'm not even quite sure how it works
[12:13] <ogra_ac> yu bind mount /tmp and /home/$USER into your chroot, gdm creates the cookie at login time
[12:14] <persia> These days you have to fiddle with /var/run for dbus also
[12:15] <ogra_ac> yeah
[12:20] <szoszi> reinstalled kernel
[12:21] <szoszi> maybe slightly faster, but still could produce 1.3 cpu load...with just an apt-get update...
[12:22] <tmzt_g2root> so netbook-launcher isn't intended for use with touchscreens?
[12:22] <persia> szoszi, values > 1 for load are typical with apt-get update: it's multithreaded, so there is almost always something waiting for CPU time, unless you have really slow IO.
[12:23] <persia> tmzt_g2root, I wouldn't say that: I'd say instead that testing on touchscreens has been light.
[12:23] <tmzt_g2root> well, finger interaction with the scrollbar and scrolling with touch don't work, though my touchscreen is only sending normal mouse events
[12:23] <tmzt_g2root> I don't know if that's why
[12:24] <szoszi> persia, than that might be my problem? Mostly IO usese higher percentage of CPU...
[12:25] <szoszi> like this : CPU usage 	0% user, 1% kernel, 42% IO, 57% idle
[12:25] <persia> szoszi, Um, no.  IO typically uses no CPU, although the CPU may block waiting for IO to complete and be unable to do anything at all.
[12:25] <persia> That means your CPU isn't doing much of anything, just waiting for the IO subsystem to provide some data.
[12:26] <ogra_ac> IO uses CPU if your rootfs is on USb
[12:26] <ogra_ac> due to the nature of USb
[12:26] <szoszi> rootfs is on micro SD
[12:27] <persia> ogra, Why?  Does all the USB accounting overhead get called "IO" by the kernel?
[12:28] <ogra_ac> no idea, i just know that USB usually uses CPU time for transfers
[12:31] <persia> Ah, yeah.  That's true (assuming you don't have a separate USB data transfer core in your hardware, with appropriate drivers).  I just didn't know it showed up as "iowait" in the linux accounting subsystem.
[12:35] <szoszi> okay :) I'm confused. :) Will download and install official ubuntu image :D
[12:37] <szoszi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetbookInstall it's not mentioned here, but as I know a fat partition and u-boot is requered. From where can I obtain proper files for this?
[12:38] <persia> szoszi, They are already included in the image.
[12:38] <ogra_ac> wrong wikipage again
[12:39] <ogra_ac> follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
[12:39] <ogra_ac> we didnt support XM before maverick
[12:40] <persia> Couldn't: it didn't exist.
[12:40] <szoszi> so lucid wont run on xm?
[12:40] <ogra_ac> right
[12:40] <persia> Very unlikely.
[12:41] <szoszi> shit...just felt that that netbook-look is quite handy :)
[12:41] <persia> !ohmy > szoszi
[12:41] <ubot2> szoszi, please see my private message
[12:41] <persia> It's available in maverick as well :)
[12:43] <szoszi> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/maverick/release/ here is no premade image, as I see. Or you mean as a package?
[12:44] <persia> See the URL in the /topic :)
[12:44] <szoszi> : ubot2 how?
[12:44] <ogra_ac> the maverick images look pretty much the same as the lucid ones
[12:44] <ogra_ac> the UI is the same launcher
[12:45] <szoszi> persia...right :)
[12:45] <szoszi> thanks :)
[12:50] <armin76> !ohmy
[12:50] <ubot2> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
[12:50] <armin76> :D
[12:50] <rcn-ee> szoszi, saw your message on #beagle, swapping kernel's isn't going to really dramaticly improve your performance.. swapping out the card that came with your xM with a class 6 will give you a little more..
[12:51] <ogra_ac> ugh, who still uses class 6 for rootfses ?
[12:51]  * ogra_ac would always recommend class 10
[12:52] <rcn-ee> well class 6+ i use usb/sata drives.. ;)
[12:52] <ogra_ac> :)
[12:52] <rcn-ee> but anything is faster then the sd card that comes with the xM...
[12:53]  * ogra_ac didnt know the XM ships one
[12:53] <ogra_ac> mine came without card
[12:53] <rcn-ee> you had a pre-production one.. ;)  the production ones come with a default easy first boot angstrom.. never booted it myself..
[12:55] <szoszi> rcn-ee, thanks for the tip, but average loads are still over 1. Maybe try angstrom next. :) But as you nor I did boot the factory image
[12:56] <szoszi> but by the way I feel it slightly better ;)
[12:58] <rcn-ee> you will get a slight speed bump from angstrom, as they run the xM at 1Ghz...  Mine is limted to 800.. for comparsion which io load command where you running?
[13:00] <szoszi> rcn-ee, could you please ask "for comparsion which io load command where you running?" a diffent way? I cannot catch the question...
[13:02] <rcn-ee> szoszi, sorry slow morning.. it wasn't top.. which command where you monitoring kernel and i/o %...
[13:03] <szoszi> rcn-ee, just installed webmin...
[13:04] <szoszi> maybe it's not trustable, I do not really know, but seems correct
[13:04] <rcn-ee> ah, yeah use to run that on my beagle's that program seems to creates a lot of extra i/o itself..
[13:06] <szoszi> so you blame webmin for lots of IO? where can I monitor IO? :) top does not show up
[13:08] <hrw> use iotop?
[13:08] <rcn-ee> iotop/iostat/etc..
[14:03] <szoszi> hello again, downloaded and tried to write ubuntu netbook arm image, like this sudo sh -c 'zcat <imagename> /dev/sda, but atfer hitting enter I can only see a ">" and seems nothing happens. Any idea?
[14:04] <GrueMaster> Yes, add a closing '
[14:06] <szoszi> ...did not notice...I should se no charecters flowing randomly? and changing rapidly?
[14:08] <ogra_ac> no, you see nothing until the command is done usually
[14:09] <szoszi> then something is wrong
[14:09] <ogra_ac> yes, you miss > in your command
[14:10] <ogra_ac> sudo sh -c 'zcat /path/to/downloaded/image.img > /dev/sda'
[14:11] <szoszi> now seems fine :)
[14:11] <ogra_ac> :)
[14:12] <szoszi> iotop shows disk write 10-20M :) Thanks ogra_ac and sorry
[14:13] <ogra_ac> sorry ? for what ?
[14:13] <ogra_ac> nothing to feel sorry about ;)
[14:15] <szoszi> ogra_ac I should spend more time with linux and less with M$ products. But at the company we use M$
[14:16] <ogra_ac> no need to excuse yourself for that
[14:16] <persia> szoszi, Don't make it a "should": do what you enjoy.  Ensure you can afford to do so :)
[14:19] <szoszi> persia, with my girlfriend we are planning to move to the uk :D There are non-it jobs at M&S for start. Later on migh pick IT angain
[14:20] <rsalveti> ogra_ac: new qt package, that disables neon by default is not yet at natty
[14:20] <rsalveti> then to properly get a package version for the ppa it would be good to have the same commit you did for natty
[14:23] <szoszi> I messed up. Just noticed that I need a 4gb+ memory card for the image, but I have a 2 gb inserted, can I do anything with this premage image to fit?
[14:23] <ogra_ac> rsalveti, so you need my upload first ?
[14:23] <ogra_ac> ScottK, ^^^
[14:23] <rsalveti> ogra_ac: it'd be good, because then I just build a new version with ppa1 on it
[14:23] <ogra_ac> ScottK, i will upload qt with the same change i did in the SRU, rsalveti will provide a PPA with NEON
[14:24] <ogra_ac> just FYI
[14:24] <ScottK> ogra_ac: There's no point in uploading to Natty as it will just FTBFS.
[14:25] <rsalveti> argh, true
[14:25] <ogra_ac> (to be honest i would be ok if the maverick change would just be allowed into -updates and we leave natty as is and give upstram time to fix it during the cycle)
[14:25] <rsalveti> it's still broken
[14:25] <ScottK> ogra_ac: I'd prefer that.
[14:25] <ogra_ac> lets go to -devel and convince pitti then
[14:25] <rsalveti> alright
[14:38] <szoszi> I messed up. Just noticed that I need a 4gb+ memory card for the image, but I have a 2 gb inserted, can I do anything with this premage image to fit to a 2gb sd card?
[14:40] <ogra_ac> no
[14:40] <szoszi> thought so :)
[14:40] <ogra_ac> it is 2.2G big if it is unpacked
[14:40] <ogra_ac> so you truncate it if you write it to a smaller card
[14:40] <szoszi> lol, than I have to go and buy an sd card :)
[14:43] <persia> Consider it an opportunity to get a fast one :)
[14:45] <szoszi> :D
[14:45] <szoszi> that will be the second :)
[14:45] <szoszi> by the way the firs option faster than bigger :D
[14:47] <szoszi> since I received my beagle I'm thinging, but could not find an example, is is possible, did someone manage to install multiple OS on a single sd?
[15:10] <fluitfries> seems like the Toshiba Mini NB300 series is a decent netbook option for home/small business use?
[15:14] <persia> Aside from the fact that it's the wrong architecture :)
[15:14] <fluitfries> knew something would bite me in the ass...  just looking for basic netbook advice.  sorry.  :P
[15:19]  * janimo finds the reason for NUX FTBFS
[15:21] <ogra_ac> janimo, wohoo
[15:21] <ogra_ac> great
[15:21] <janimo> need t6o talk to NUX guys, I am not sure I can just upload a fix. Upstream is Canonical apparently
[15:21] <janimo> strangely I see not NUX pacage on x86 natty but have one on kakadu
[15:22] <ogra_ac> janimo, talk to didrocks on #ubuntu-devel
[15:22] <janimo> ah ok. I tried ayatana
[15:22] <ogra_ac> he maintains it in ubuntu and will incprporate fixes (and forward them to ayatana)
[15:23] <janimo> ok. Went further anfd found another bug so still FTBFS
[15:23] <ogra_ac> (and i knoe he planned an upload before A1)
[15:23] <janimo> there's a release out a few hours ago
[15:26] <ogra_ac> well, the last upload was 5 days ago
[15:33] <janimo> uh, NUX is a graphics framework made for x86 win/lin/mac . Needs more work to learn about ARM, not a simple packaging FTBFS
[15:34] <rsalveti> janimo: yeah, and needs to support gles to be fully compatible with arm boards
[15:35] <janimo> I'll look at fixing the buld first. Is GLES a runtime or build req?
[15:35] <rsalveti> janimo: probably something the dx team needs help with, if you have time
[15:35] <janimo> sure, am looking at the code now
[15:35] <rsalveti> janimo: gles is a nice to have, but we're ok if we don't have it as we can run gl with mesa by software
[15:35] <janimo> may need to set up a bzr branch if there will be more than a few patches
[15:35] <rsalveti> yeah, building on arm is the first step
[15:36] <janimo> is gles hard? I am not familiar with its status, I see it is assgned to you
[15:36] <rsalveti> janimo: are you familiar with gl and gles stuff? the idea of the bp is to move the packages to be gles by default
[15:36] <rsalveti> on arm
[15:36] <rsalveti> instead of gl
[15:37] <rsalveti> then we can use the hw accelerated drivers
[15:37] <rsalveti> like we have for omap3 and omap4 atm
[15:37] <rsalveti> janimo: nux is required by the new unity + compiz stuff
[15:38] <janimo> rsalveti: not familiar but have nothing against getting familiar
[15:38] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:39] <rsalveti> will be out for lunch now, we can talk more about it later :-)
[15:39] <janimo> enjoy your meal!
[15:40] <rsalveti> thanks :-)
[15:40]  * rsalveti lunch
[15:49] <tmzt_g2root> netbook isn't quite usable in wvga either
[16:50] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, nothing in ubuntu is optimized for 480px vertical, 600px is minimal
[16:51] <tmzt_g2root> it's maximus, the open dialog was working without it and centered on the screen
[16:51] <tmzt_g2root> but maximus thinks it's a top level and tries to expand it
[16:52] <tmzt_g2root> theme looks totally out of place too
[16:52] <ogra_ac> there are gconf keys for excluding apps from maximus handling
[16:52] <ogra_ac> yeah, nobody made any effort to adjust to 800x480
[16:52] <tmzt_g2root> yeah I need to put the gconf files back in there
[16:52] <ogra_ac> well, persia did quite a while ago, but we didnt follow up on that
[16:53] <tmzt_g2root> I lost my panels/window switcher too
[16:53] <tmzt_g2root> is maximus a wm? can it be used to switch between programs? I can't seem to get anything to not be always on top
[16:53] <tmzt_g2root> like it's unmanaged
[16:55] <ogra_ac> maximus is a metacity extension iirc
[16:57] <tmzt_g2root> so metacity is running?
[16:57] <tmzt_g2root> or should be
[16:57] <ogra_ac> i think so, not sure
[17:00] <tmzt_g2root> doesn't seem to be running, that might be the problem
[17:16] <prpplague> ogra_ac: bamboo pcb are out for production
[17:16] <ogra_ac> wohooo !
[17:16] <prpplague> ogra_ac: i have a couple other boards i'm looking at doing
[17:18] <prpplague> ogra_ac: thoughts on a board the exact same size of the pandaboard that has the following: two usb host ports, eeprom, battery backed rtc, and some breakout headers
[17:19] <ogra_ac> sounds like beagle Cx revived
[17:20]  * armin76 points prpplague to #pandaboard
[17:20] <ogra_ac> prpplague, no tower ?
[17:20] <ogra_ac> (and no NIC)
[17:21] <prpplague> armin76: ??
[17:21] <mellis> hey i just set up ubuntu 10.10 desktop has anyone else made a image of that for download?
[17:21] <ogra_ac> he just wants to tease you
[17:21] <prpplague> ahh
[17:21] <prpplague> ogra_ac: sorry what i meant was an accessory board for the pandaboard
[17:22] <ogra_ac> mellis, the netbook images we provide contain dektop
[17:22] <prpplague> ogra: basically just adds the extra ports
[17:22] <ogra_ac> ah
[17:22] <ogra_ac> i thought instead of what the panda has atm
[17:22] <prpplague> ogra: it would be a inexpensive add on
[17:22] <ogra_ac> additional USB ports would be good, yeah
[17:22] <ogra_ac> since the two on the board are usually taken by kbd and mouse
[17:23] <ogra_ac> and pattery backed rtc would be good too
[17:23] <tmzt_g2root> anything with ethernet?
[17:23] <ogra_ac> panda has ethernet already
[17:23] <ogra_ac> as well as wlan
[17:23] <tmzt_g2root> cool
[17:23] <prpplague> ogra_ac: techincally all you need to add the additional usb ports is just to get some of these - http://www.amazon.com/2-Port-Rear-Panel-Bracket-Adapter/dp/B002IWEDSS
[17:24] <ogra_ac> yeah, i know
[17:24] <ogra_ac> but the board itself has only two which gets in your way if you want to run it as a desktop with usb disk
[17:25] <mellis> ogra_ac yeah but thats the netbook desktop witch not what all useres what
[17:25] <ogra_ac> mellis, no, the normal desktop
[17:26] <ogra_ac> you can select it at the login manager
[17:26] <ogra_ac> its shipped by default
[17:26] <mellis> ahh ok i couldint get that image to work for me
[17:26] <ogra_ac> on what hw ?
[17:26] <mellis> beagle xm rev 2
[17:26] <ogra_ac> should work
[17:26] <mellis> it wouldint output to s-video
[17:27] <ogra_ac> oh, s-video
[17:27] <ogra_ac> yeah
[17:27] <ogra_ac> not much tested by us
[17:27]  * ogra_ac knows your bug i think
[17:27] <mellis> yeah bit anoying
[17:27] <ogra_ac> we'll try to put some focus on it in natty
[17:28] <mellis> yeah that would be great
[17:29] <mellis> even the u-boot in that image didnt output to s-video
[17:32] <prpplague> ogra_ac: yea but you can add the extra ports pretty quick, the pinout is 1 to 1 for the connectors
[17:32] <prpplague> ogra_ac: all you have to do is solder on the header
[17:33] <ogra_ac> mellis, u-boot doesnt output to *any* graphical display
[17:33] <ogra_ac> only to serial
[17:33] <ogra_ac> prpplague, yup or use a proper plug
[17:34] <mellis> the one i use outputs bars to s-video
[17:35] <prpplague> ogra_ac: actually u-boot does have support for boot splash screen on some devices
[17:35] <ogra_ac> prpplague, i know
[17:35] <ogra_ac> i was talking about ubuntus u-boot binary indeed
[17:35] <prpplague> ahh
[17:35]  * prpplague needs to get that working for the panda
[17:36] <ogra_ac> sakoman cant help with that ?
[17:37] <ogra_ac> we are using linaros u-boot with should be his
[17:39] <prpplague> ogra_ac: yea i am sure he can for a fee , hehe
[17:40] <ogra_ac> heh
[17:40] <ogra_ac> well, thats good, we need to keep him alive ;)
[17:40]  * ogra_ac is all for paying good developers money ;)
[17:41] <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, my omap4 buld is running since more than 30mins already, seems it will survive, so you should have something to test in about 1-1.5h
[17:43] <GrueMaster> ok
[17:44] <Kamondelious> anyone know how to fix "unable to enumerate USB device on port" errors?
[17:48] <Kamondelious> I'm running a BeagleBoard Rev C3 with 10.10
[17:52] <ogra_ac> Kamondelious, are you using a powered hub ?
[17:53] <Kamondelious> yes
[17:53] <ogra_ac> well, C3 did have USB issues iirc
[17:54] <Kamondelious> I only seem to have issues with this error when I plug in my webcam
[17:54] <Kamondelious> dang
[17:55] <ogra_ac> oh, that rather sounds liek a missing driver
[17:55] <ogra_ac> what kind of webcam is that ?
[17:55] <Kamondelious> uvc
[17:56] <ogra_ac> hmm, should have a driver iirc
[17:56] <Kamondelious> the uvc module is loaded
[17:57] <Kamondelious> and the camera works on other computers
[17:57] <ogra_ac> weird
[17:57] <ogra_ac> it did get autmatically loaded ?
[17:57] <ogra_ac> when plugging in the camera ?
[17:57] <Kamondelious> no, I loaded it with modprobe
[17:57] <ogra_ac> ah
[17:58] <Kamondelious> added it to /etc/modules
[17:58] <ogra_ac> well, that wont help much
[17:59] <ogra_ac> udev should load it automatically if your cam is associated with the driver
[17:59] <Kamondelious> ahh
[19:35] <Kamondelious> ogra_ac, I can confirm that I have had this same camera working on my BeagleBoard before, with a previous Ubuntu (10.04 community) install
[19:35] <Kamondelious> very odd, I might have to break down a buy another powered usb hub to eliminate that as the issue
[20:47] <berco-mac> GrueMaster: hi
[20:53] <berco-mac> GrueMaster: I was wondering if you saw my update on Launchpad and if you were unblock with your display
[20:54] <GrueMaster> I saw the LP entry.  Haven't gotten further yet.
[20:56] <berco-mac> I had my colleague do the exact same update and we couldn't see the issue. that's weird. I need to compare our setups
[21:07] <epp> hey guys i just picked up a tablet that runs android and has ubuntu running ARM. What are the repos for ubuntu arm?
[21:07] <epp> all they have is some crap one that has almost no software
[21:08] <rsalveti> epp: what is your tablet?
[21:08] <rsalveti> we first need to check if it's compatible with ubuntu
[21:08] <rsalveti> like what arm cpu and etc
[21:09] <epp> rsalveti, its running ubuntu
[21:09] <rsalveti> epp: oh, if you got it running already you're fine :-)
[21:09] <epp> rsalveti, smart Q7
[21:09] <epp> it came preloaded but its slimmed down
[21:10] <rsalveti> epp: with which ubuntu version?
[21:10] <epp> rsalveti, im not sure
[21:10] <rsalveti> lsb_release -a usually tells you
[21:10] <epp> okej
[21:10] <epp> hold
[21:11] <rsalveti> or look at /etc/issue and/or /etc/issue.net, you can at least have a clue if they generated it fine
[21:11] <epp> okey
[21:12] <epp> i finally got sshd working
[21:15] <epp> ubuntu 9.10
[21:16] <rsalveti> epp: ok, this is the karmic release
[21:17] <epp> rsalveti, i just need some repo address
[21:17] <rsalveti> epp: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
[21:17] <rsalveti> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports karmic main
[21:18] <rsalveti> will probably do the work
[21:18] <epp> ok but dont i need to add arm specific or does it detect?
[21:19] <rsalveti> epp: nops, just this line should be enough
[21:19] <epp> cool
[21:20] <epp> god it doesnt even have nano i dont know vi haha
[21:21] <rsalveti> you can use echo, cat hehe
[21:22] <epp> ahh perfect ill echo >
[21:22] <epp> whats append to file >> or >
[21:25] <epp> its >>
[21:26] <berco-mac> epp:  yes
[21:26] <epp> great looks like its working
[21:26] <epp> this is the original haha
[21:27] <epp> deb http://ubuntu.srt.cn/ubuntu-ports/ karmic main universe restricted multiverse