[06:03] <Laibsch> what is the latest status of "nominate for release" in launchpad?  Is there actually a workflow behing this now?  Back in the days it used to be mostly ignored.
[06:04] <Laibsch> I'm interested in doing SRU work and wonder how I could easily see bugs that are fixed in #ubuntu+1 but affect an LTS.
[06:10] <Laibsch> ping SpamapS. ^^^
[06:12] <micahg> Laibsch: here's the list with nominations: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid
[06:12] <Laibsch> micahg: Thanks.  Who can accept nominations? And is that when the nomination becomes a "bug task"?
[06:13] <micahg> Laibsch: an uploader of the package can accept it
[06:13] <micahg> and yes to the second question
[06:14] <Laibsch> cool
[06:14] <Laibsch> that's really nice to see this improvement in the work flow
[06:15] <Laibsch> previously bugs disappeared from the radar when they were fixed in ubuntu+1
[06:15] <micahg> Laibsch: the link I gave you is a series specific link, it shows tasks open in that series
[06:15] <Laibsch> micahg: "uploader of the package" means somebody with upload rights to the package the bug is filed against?
[06:15] <micahg> Laibsch: yes
[06:16]  * Laibsch has no upload rights whatsoever to Ubuntu :-(
[06:17]  * Laibsch bookmarks that link for future reference
[08:11] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/862157
[08:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 862157 in ubuntu "11.10 hangs upon boot on Brazos C-50 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
[08:11] <ikt> what would you set this against?
[08:11] <ikt> since I have the same thing
[08:12] <ikt> there's this screen full of garbage colours and then it loads properly
[08:12] <ikt> but those garbage colours are really not good :/
[08:14] <ikt> might take a screenshot
[17:41] <shayonj> whats the eligibility for membership approval. Apart from the ones mentioned here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad. As in I did fix a bug last night.. does that help ? :)
[17:46]  * penguin42 isn't sure what else to suggest to bug 864271 it's a bit odd
[17:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 864271 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel panic with linux-image-3.0.0-12.19 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864271
[17:46] <shayonj> i am actually planning for - Preparing New Packages . And i believe for that I need to join the Bugsquad team ?
[17:50] <jbicha> shayonj: bug triaging and packaging are different, you don't have to do one to do the other
[17:51] <shayonj> jbicha, yeah right. So i plan to go with "Preparing New Packages", i still will be needing to join the team and complete the steps right ?
[17:54] <shayonj> with Preparing New Packages i mean taking care of the ones marked with needs-packaging
[17:57] <jbicha> shayonj: joining Bug Squad is easy, see https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad
[17:57] <shayonj> jbicha, cool. thats what i wanted to know.. as in i know its straight, just wondering do i need to or now. thanks :)
[18:04] <txomon> hello, I have  a strange problem, each time I suspend the laptop, after starting it, hibernates
[18:04] <txomon> anyone has got such strange thing?
[18:07] <txomon> so anyone here?
[18:26] <Exodus> txomon, you should ask in #ubuntu it has a larger crowd for support. This channel is more for bug reporting, if you need help reporting the bug this is the channel to ask.
[18:28] <txomon> ok
[18:28] <txomon> so here you don't know if someone reported already that bug Exodus ?
[18:30] <Exodus> txomon, you can look in launchpad for that bug, it has a search box. It is probably reported.
[18:30] <JanC> I'm sure somebody filed a similar bug, but most of the time it's important you file your own bug (because this is often hardware-specific)
[18:31] <JanC> except if you find a bug about the same hardware of course
[18:31] <Exodus> Exactly what JanC said txomon.
[19:02] <txomon> oki
[19:07] <shayonj> okay so i plan on working on this bud/wishlist .So can i just go and start working on it directly, keeping the steps in mind mentioned here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#Preparing_New_Packages
[19:07] <shayonj> or there is something more needs to be done. I ask because, i just applied for membership and waiting for approval. But that doesnt make a difference, does it ?
[19:21] <shayonj> need som help with "Needs Packaging Bugs" for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/836764 . anyone around?
[19:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 836764 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] RFP: git-flow (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,New]
[19:24] <micahg> shayonj: what about them?
[19:27] <shayonj> micahg, so this package is already in debian
[19:28] <micahg> shayonj: so it'll come into Ubuntu next cycle
[19:28] <shayonj> micahg, oh yeah thought so . So should i just leave message as mentioned in the guide ?
[19:29] <shayonj> this oen - Packages for this software appear to exist in Debian already. Ubuntu has semi-automatic tools to sync new packages from Debian so it will most likely appear in the next Ubuntu release.
[19:29] <micahg> shayonj: sounds fine
[19:29] <shayonj> micahg, thanks !
[19:29] <micahg> shayonj: thank you :)
[19:30] <shayonj> micahg, hah !anytime ;)
[19:34] <shayonj> micahg, need one more help ?
[19:34] <micahg> shayonj: just ask
[19:35] <shayonj> okay, so i am working on this other bug which is tagged as need-packaging. And it does not appear in ubunut and debian package list. Now i am looking for its license type. and on th the sourceforge page it says
[19:35] <shayonj> GNU Library or Lesser General Public License (LGPL), Other License
[19:36] <shayonj> so is LGPL the license type ?
[19:36] <shayonj> as in the upstream one
[19:36] <micahg> shayonj: yes, but questions on how to package are best served in #ubuntu-motu, this channel is for triaging bugs
[19:37] <micahg> shayonj: rather, it could be that license type, you'll have to look at the source code to be sure
[19:37] <shayonj> yes at the moment i am triaging it.. so if everyhting works out fine, i will start packaging it :)
[19:37] <shayonj> micahg, oh okay !
[19:50] <shayonj> so i found the license types in the source code.. but i am wondering where/how do i link it in the comment
[19:51] <micahg> shayonj: you can just list it in the description
[19:51] <shayonj> okay
[19:52] <shayonj> thanks micahg, would you want to go through it once before I mark it triage. this will be my first triage(ed) bug, or should i ask for a proofread in the mailing list ? :)
[19:53] <micahg> shayonj: bug #?
[19:54] <shayonj> micahg, 830052 . but i am still adding the license types
[19:54] <micahg> shayonj: bug 830052
[19:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 830052 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] PortableSigner (affects: 1) (heat: 4)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830052
[19:54] <shayonj> micahg, yep
[19:55] <shayonj> micahg, yes you can check now
[20:00] <micahg> shayonj: I think it's fine, I can't seem to find the template ATM
[20:01] <shayonj> micahg, okay, thanks so much.
[20:01] <shayonj> micahg, but am i suppose to mark it triaged i am not a bugsquad team member (yet)
[20:02] <micahg> shayonj: they generally stay as new, I'd have to find the template to mark it triaged
[20:02] <shayonj> micahg, okay.
[20:15] <CQ> hello, can someone point me to where I should report kubuntu bugs? googling only points me to the ubuntu launchpad...
[20:18] <shayonj> CQ, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
[20:21] <CQ> shayonj: been there already, that points me to the KDE tracker, or to create a launchpad account which I already have... and through a Plasma awidget I cant get to a help page where I can submit the bug...
[20:24] <CQ> ...and following the instruction to file the bug on launchpad gets me to the ubuntu launchpad which tells me to look at the kubuntu page you pointed me to.
[20:24] <CQ> circular references are fun ...
[20:24] <shayonj> oh i see..yeah sorry about that
[20:25] <micahg> CQ: if the bug is ubuntu specific, file on launchpad, otherwise upstream on KDE's tracker
[20:27] <shayonj> micahg, i couldnt find the template. you got the source from svn right ?
[20:28] <micahg> shayonj: I don't know where it is ATM
[20:28] <shayonj> micahg, http://portablesigner.sourceforge.net/ and the Source Code Repository at http://portablesigner.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/portablesigner/
[20:28] <ali1234> i would just like to say that it is really annoying when apport retracer marks my bugs invalid because i have some out dated package, especially when that package has nothing at all to do with what crashed, and also the updated versions aren't available on my mirror
[20:29] <micahg> shayonj: no, I meant the template for a needs-packaging bug
[20:29] <shayonj> micahg, as in the guide ?
[20:29] <micahg> ali1234: I'd suggest sending an e-mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
[20:29] <shayonj> micahg, this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Needs_Packaging_Bugs ?
[20:29] <CQ> micahg: ok, thanks... I filed upstream, and on launchpad with a pointer to upstream.
[20:30] <CQ> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/864848 ... thanks for your help
[20:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 864848 in ubuntu "plasma network manager widget does not connect to UMTS net (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[20:39] <shayonj> micahg, sorry i didnt get with what you meant by template
[20:40] <micahg> shayonj: there's a template for how to file a needs-packaging bug
[20:42] <shayonj> micahg, well the only one i know is this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Needs_Packaging_Bugs
[23:23] <yofel> someone know what I should file this against? http://paste.kde.org/129697/
[23:23] <yofel> python-keyring crash when it tries to use kwallet
[23:24] <yofel> in oneiric


[09:17] <huats> morning !
[11:44] <leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
[11:53] <cody-somerville> CC meeting in 7-10 minutes?
[11:53] <dholbach> cody-somerville: yes
[11:53] <Hobbsee> oh noes!
[11:53] <cody-somerville> \o/
[11:53] <Hobbsee> anything interesting on?
[11:53] <persia> Hmm.  ubottu claims 130 minutes
[11:54] <cody-somerville> Ubottu says the meeting is right now
[11:54] <persia> Err no, I just don't understand timezones :(
[11:54] <cody-somerville> We know
[11:57] <dholbach> sabdfl is not going to make it, mdke is at work, Burgundavia and TechnoViking are not around and I tried contacting mako
[11:57] <elmo> :(
[11:58] <dholbach> ok, let's take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[11:58] <dholbach> 1) "Danish Team as legal entity" was discussed the last time and is being reviewed by the Loco Council AFAIK
[11:59] <dholbach> 2) "Interface for Intrepid Ibex" - I don't know much about that one
[11:59] <dholbach> to me it sounds more like "Desktop Team land"
[12:00] <dholbach> I think I'll post the notes about we have to the desktop team and get Acelin in contact with them - what do you think elmo?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> dholbach: read the /talk page...
[12:00] <Hobbsee> it seems pretty clear that it's not a desktop land thing
[12:00] <dholbach> 3) "Ratification of Xubuntu Strategy Document" - it seems that everybody was quite happy with it and only small changes to it were requested
[12:00] <elmo> dholbach: is Danish team even on then?
[12:00] <dholbach> cody-somerville: did you take a look at that?
[12:01] <elmo> are we looking at /talk or the top level?
[12:01] <dholbach> elmo: maybe the agenda wasn't updated
[12:01] <persia> dholbach: Are you looking at the same wiki agenda as I?
[12:01] <cody-somerville> dholbach, Yes. I'm waiting for a bounce back from cjwatson
[12:01] <dholbach> cody-somerville: OK - do you think you could send a headsup when that happened via mail? (it doesn't look like we'll get quorum this time around)
[12:02]  * cody-somerville nods.
[12:02] <dholbach> and 4) the Planet issue was definitely discussed
[12:02] <dholbach> persia: General agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[12:02] <dholbach> oh... it was updated in the meantime
[12:02] <dholbach> excusez-moi
[12:02] <persia> dholbach: Yes.  I don't see any of the four you just mentioned.
[12:03] <dholbach> sorry
[12:03] <thorwil> hi, i removed the mentioned 4 as i'm very sure they are from last meeting
[12:03] <thorwil> but only about half an hour ago
[12:03] <cody-somerville> thorwil, who are you? :P
[12:03] <persia> They were from the last meeting, and discussed then.
[12:03] <Hobbsee> looks like it's just hte artwork guidelines stuff, then.
[12:03] <dholbach> thanks thorwil
[12:04] <dholbach> I'd prefer to have kwwii and sabdfl here for that one
[12:04] <thorwil> definitively
[12:04] <dholbach> I can write a mail to both of them, asking if they're available at the next meeting.
[12:05] <thorwil> i'm not sure i can attend the next one. but a simple answer might be all that's needed :)
[12:05] <dholbach> OK, I can easily CC you on the mail
[12:05] <dholbach> thanks a lot
[12:06] <thorwil> ok, thanks
[12:06] <persia> More generally, I'm curious if 11:00 UTC is bad for a majority of Council members.  I haven't seen quorum in an 11:00 meeting in several months.
[12:06] <persia> Would moving it to e.g. 13:00 UTC help with that?
[12:07] <dholbach> Usually sabdfl, elmo and I are able to make it and we managed to have mako and TechnoViking around at that time too, IIRC
[12:07] <dholbach> persia: but I can bring up the topic too
[12:08] <persia> dholbach: Thank you.  I think April was the last successful 11:00 meeting, and it's a very convenient time for those of us in some timezones.
[12:08] <dholbach> I'll make sure to point that out.
[12:08] <dholbach> sorry everybody for not making quorum this time, I'll send out those emails.
[12:08] <dholbach> Adjourned.
[12:08] <cody-somerville> Can we have free appetizers at these meetings in the future?
[12:08] <dholbach> . o O { hmmm, food... }
[12:09] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: to try and drive attendance up?
[12:10] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: congrats on the new role, btw.
[12:10] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, thanks :-]
[12:16] <thorwil> shall i drop the old items from the talk page?
[12:17] <persia> thorwil: Only in the case that they are documented elsewhere: otherwise we lose context, as there aren't compiled and published minutes for these meetings.
[12:17] <persia> I think the "Previous Items" header makes it fairly clear until the items are more clearly sorted.
[12:18] <thorwil> ok, i introduced that :)
[12:18] <thorwil> persia: but maybe then the main page should have previous items, too?
[12:23] <persia> thorwil: Hmm.  Maybe.  I'm not sure.  I'm afraid of losing stuff, but think clutter isn't ideal.
[15:28] <nealmcb> @schedule denver
[15:59] <jdstrand> nealmcb: are you running the meeting today?
[15:59] <nealmcb> yup
[15:59] <jdstrand> nealmcb: hi btw! :)
[15:59] <nealmcb> :)
[15:59] <jdstrand> nealmcb: I am adding something to the ServerTeam/Roadmap, and would like to discuss it
[15:59] <ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: I have to go in ~30 minutes, so I'd appreciate it if the spec discussion could start right away.
[15:59] <sommer> hey all
[16:00] <nealmcb> #startmeeting
[16:00] <zul> hi
[16:00]  * nealmcb listens intently for mootbot
[16:00] <ScottK-laptop> Heya zul.
[16:00] <zul> hi ScottK-laptop
[16:01] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <nealmcb> So we'll start without mootbot.  ScottK-laptop, you'd like to do some specs right off, or after the normal preliminaries"
[16:02] <nijaba> @now
[16:02] <emgent> #schedule rome
[16:02] <emgent> @schedule rome
[16:02] <ScottK-laptop> After the normal preliminaries is fine.
[16:03] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] items from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080812
[16:04] <nealmcb> james_w: did you do a blog post on  removing multiuser options?
[16:05] <james_w> hey
[16:05] <ScottK-laptop> He did or I imagined reading it.
[16:05] <james_w> sort of
[16:05] <james_w> by the time I got round to writing it most of the works was done
[16:06] <nealmcb> good job!  I think  foolano and kirkland won't be here for their action items.
[16:06] <kirkland> nealmcb: hey, i'm hear
[16:06] <kirkland> here
[16:07] <nealmcb> kirkland: great.  anything on degraded raid and the release notes?
[16:07] <kirkland> nealmcb: I think degraded RAID is pretty much done.  kees and slangasek sponsored the last of the patches last week.
[16:07] <kirkland> nealmcb: to recap....
[16:07] <jdstrand> \o/
[16:08] <kirkland> nealmcb: we have now patched a) initramfs-tools to allow for configurably and interactively deciding whether to boot a degraded RAID
[16:08] <kirkland> nealmcb: b) grub will detect and install multiple MBRs to disks in a mirror providing /boot
[16:08] <kirkland> nealmcb: c) mdadm has the debconf entries to allow a sysadmin to switch BOOT_DEGRADED on/off
[16:09]  * nealmcb cheers
[16:09] <kirkland> nealmcb: not to say that there aren't other RAID bugs and issues, but this is what we set out to solve at the end of UDS
[16:09] <nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: is your spec thing part of the roadmap?
[16:09] <kirkland> nealmcb: and I've asked the commenters to those bugs to open new ones for new issues (as the comment #'s are in the 100s)
[16:09] <ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: It's the ClamavSpamassasssin one.
[16:09] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:10] <kirkland> nealmcb: I need to update the release notes...  i'll go do that now
[16:10] <nealmcb> kirkland: thanks!
[16:10] <nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: go ahead with ClamavSpamassasssin spec item
[16:10]  * ScottK-laptop looks around for some help.
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> Lots of people said they wanted these (clamav in particular), but except sommer, no one else has actually done anything.
[16:11] <kirkland> ScottK-laptop: are you still looking for MIR-writers?
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> My time this cycle is very limited.
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[16:11] <kirkland> ScottK-laptop: mathiaz, or I, or someone could ask for that in a blog entry
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> They aren't very technically hard, you just have to grind through the checklist.
[16:11] <ScottK-laptop> kirkland: IIRC mathiaz did that already.
[16:11] <arakthor> ScottK-laptop, how do I help with that?
[16:11] <kirkland> ScottK-laptop: I've been very pleased with the community response to my blog entries requesting help
[16:11] <kirkland> ScottK-laptop: :-S
[16:12] <ScottK-laptop> arakthor: Let's chat on #ubuntu-server.  I'll explain.
[16:12] <arakthor> ok
[16:12] <ScottK-laptop> kirkland: I think it must intimidate people, but it's really not that hard.
[16:12] <nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: or perhaps you could explain to everyone in a blog entry?  or get someone to do that?
[16:12] <kirkland> ScottK-laptop: timeconsuming, yes.  but hard, no.
[16:12] <nijaba> kirkland: and we have an installer option to install a mirror properly?
[16:13] <kirkland> nijaba: -> #ubuntu-server
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: If the blog were open to community postings, I'd be more inclined, but that's another issue.
[16:13] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: wrt clamav in particular (I mentioned this in the last meeting that I was in, but your weren't), I think it would be a great idea to have apparmor profiles for clamd and freshclam.
[16:13] <zul> nijaba: eh mirror?
[16:13] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: this will likely help in getting them accepted into main
[16:13] <nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: last week I thought mathiaz invited others to post to the blog
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: I agree, I just would lneed someone to do them.
[16:13] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I have a working profile that I can contribute
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Excellent.
 I can create an contributor account for anyone interested in publishing a post on the ubuntuserver blog [
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Are they somewhere were I can get them.
[16:14] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I'm currently using clamsmtp, so we'd need to get milter and amavis bits going
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: Thanks.  I wasn't here last week.
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Right.
[16:14] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: not yet, but I can make them available
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: I can test with amavisd-new.
[16:15] <nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: so should I give you an action to get a blog account and post :)
[16:15] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I can't imagine it'd be much more than just adding the spool dir for each...
[16:15] <ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: Not needed, but if you want to.
[16:15] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I'll post them somewhere and ping you
[16:16] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Thanks.
[16:16] <ScottK-laptop> That's it.  Please note the plea for help in the minutes.
[16:16] <nealmcb> [ACTION] ScottK will post a blog request for help with the ClamavSpamassasssin MIRs
[16:17] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] other items from the roadmap - more spec updates?
[16:18] <zul> calendaring spec is still being worked on but a little progress has been made
[16:18] <kirkland> nealmcb: Init Script Status Actions...
[16:19] <kirkland> nealmcb: I'm working on the remaining unpatched ones here...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions
[16:19] <nealmcb> kirkland: great - thanks
[16:19] <nealmcb> zul - looking for help?
[16:19] <kirkland> nealmcb: great initial response by the community after the blog post, though new patches are getting fewer and farther between
[16:19] <kirkland> nealmcb: I'm going to try and finish the rest of the server ones by the end of the week
[16:20] <kirkland> nealmcb: I'd recommend the very capable individuals here in this meeting to help by fixing any init scripts that they know and love on their own servers ;-)
[16:21] <nealmcb> kirkland: right - another good way to get involved with some easy patches
[16:21] <zul> nealmcb: nope im good
[16:21] <nealmcb> hear-ye hear-ye :)
[16:21] <kirkland> nealmcb: yes, for sure, very easy, and very obvious/functional
[16:21] <nealmcb> soren: anything on Ubuntu VM Builder?
[16:23] <soren> Not since last meeting, I think.
[16:23] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration - jdstrand
[16:24] <jdstrand> as of yesterday, ufw now has support for package integration
[16:24] <nealmcb> :)
[16:24] <sommer> cool
[16:24] <jdstrand> basically, packages can declare themselves to ufw, and users can then use these 'profiles' in ufw rules
[16:24] <ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Any chance we'll get the "Hey, you're about to cut off the ssh connection you're connecting through" option for Intrepid?
[16:24] <nealmcb> note the ufw updates hot off the keyboards of jdstrand at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:25] <jdstrand> eg, apache2 registers itself with ufw, and a user can do:
[16:25] <jdstrand> ufw allow Apache
[16:25] <jdstrand> or
[16:25] <jdstrand> ufw allow 'Apache Full'
[16:26] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I am considering that a 'normal bug'. I may be able to get to it, but it's on my todo list
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[16:26] <jdstrand> people can read all about the ufw application integration at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> I think in the spirit of "Ubuntu" we really ought to have that.
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> I thought it was Uncomplicated Firewall?
[16:26] <jdstrand> what is needed though, is for people to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw
[16:27] <jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: it is, unfortunately, I don't have an 'uncomplicated todo list' :P
[16:27] <kirkland> jdstrand: do you have an instructional wiki page on how to do that?
[16:27] <jdstrand> I will, as always, accept patches :)
[16:27] <ScottK-laptop> Of course.
[16:28] <jdstrand> kirkland: I am writing it now
[16:28] <jdstrand> (well, not _now_, but after the meeting)
[16:28] <kirkland> jdstrand: with a list of packages that need to be registered?
[16:28] <nealmcb> what happens when multiple packages claim a port?
[16:28] <jdstrand> nealmcb: ufw doesn't care who claims what
[16:28] <jdstrand> nealmcb: eg, a profile might look like:
[16:29] <jdstrand> [Apache]
[16:29] <jdstrand> title=Web Server
[16:29] <jdstrand> description=Apache v2 is the next generation of the omnipresent Apache web server.
[16:29] <jdstrand> ports=80/tcp
[16:29] <nealmcb> so they would basically be aliases for ways to open the port?
[16:29] <jdstrand> so 'boa' might have a similar decalration
[16:29] <jdstrand> a user can use 'ufw allow Boa', and it'll just open up that port-- if later apache is installed, it's still open
[16:29] <jdstrand> nealmcb: yes
[16:30] <nealmcb> what if someone thinks they can open apache but close lighttpd?
[16:30] <jdstrand> 'ufw status' shows these aliases. eg:
[16:30] <jdstrand> To                      Action  From
[16:30] <jdstrand> --                      ------  ----
[16:30] <jdstrand> Apache                  DENY    Anywhere
[16:30] <jdstrand> but, ufw now has 'status verbose', that will show what is actually open (ie without the alias)
[16:31] <nealmcb> (both on port 80) - do both show up in the ufw status?  both closed?
[16:31] <jdstrand> nealmcb: if you did both 'Apache' and 'Boa', they both show up, and rule ordering then is in effect (eg, if one was ALLOW and the other DENY)
[16:31] <nealmcb> of course they'll have other problems with two active web servers :/  but it might be confusing
[16:32] <NeilW> jdstrand: how does ufw shut off the access if the package is uninstalled?
[16:32] <jdstrand> nealmcb: the actually iptables rule is identical, with the exception that there is a tag (using -m comment) that links the iptables rule to an application profile
[16:32] <nealmcb> hmm - the allow/deny stuff will add to the confusion.  perhaps warning about overlaps would be better?
[16:32] <ScottK-laptop> See you all later.
[16:33] <nealmcb> ScottK: thanks!
[16:33] <nealmcb> jdstrand: but probably not a big deal for now....
[16:33] <jdstrand> NeilW: by default, installed a program will not automatically do anything. however, you can use 'ufw app default allow|deny' to change that
[16:34] <NeilW> jdstrand: yes, I'm thinking that a user has switched it on, and then uninstalled the package - leaving a hole.
[16:34] <jdstrand> NeilW: then there is an opportunity for applications to add themselves to the running firewall during postinst
[16:34] <jdstrand> NeilW: on package removal, the iptables rule remains until the user deletes it
[16:35] <NeilW> So we need to pre/postrm check it.
[16:35] <jdstrand> NeilW: for the most part, there isn't a lot of 'I'll do this automatically for you'
[16:35] <jdstrand> NeilW: what can be done is that if you choose to change the port in the profile, you can run 'ufw app update <profile>' and it will update all rules referencing the profile to use the new port
[16:36] <nealmcb> sound like some sort of dynamic package dependency - has that topic ever come up?
[16:36] <jdstrand> nealmcb: dynamic package dependency?
[16:36] <jdstrand> nealmcb: ufw works just fine without or without profiles installed or used
[16:37] <jdstrand> nealmcb: I will detail how to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw
[16:37] <jdstrand> nealmcb: it isn't all that different from packages providing their own apparmor profiles
[16:38] <nealmcb> I'm wondering if there are other cases of one package associating itself with another package, after install, such that the user would get warned about the situation when uninstalling the 2nd package
[16:38] <jdstrand> nealmcb: can you provide a specific example?
[16:38] <nealmcb> No - must a thought - apparmor sounds related
[16:39] <nealmcb> anything else on specs?
[16:39] <jdstrand> nealmcb: perhaps if I describe where help is needed, it will be more clear
[16:39] <nealmcb> jdstrand: I'm sure it will, since this is so new to me :)
[16:40] <jdstrand> I need community members to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw. there are a few priority packages in ServerTeam/Roadmap, mostly ones in the server tasksel list
[16:40] <nealmcb> sommer: anything on documentation?
[16:40] <jdstrand> this is great for developing packaging skills, and not too hard
[16:40] <sommer> almost have the ldap section converted to the new cn=config backend
[16:40] <nealmcb> jdstrand: want to do a blog post?
[16:40] <nijaba> jdstrand: you may want to send an email on #ubuntu-devel, don't you think?
[16:41] <nealmcb> right
[16:41] <jdstrand> sommer: most probably-- the man page is pretty clear, you can look at that and let me know what you think
[16:41] <sommer> jdstrand: sure... I've been meaning to get with you about ufw :)
[16:41] <jdstrand> the basic idea is to have a package install a profile into /etc/ufw/applications.d
[16:41] <jdstrand> adjust control to 'Suggests: ufw
[16:41] <jdstrand> '
[16:42] <jdstrand> then adjust maintainer scripts to run 'ufw app update --add-new <profile>' on install, and cleanup after itself on purge
[16:42] <jdstrand> I'm going to of course document all this, and plan to send an email to ubuntu-server
[16:43] <jdstrand> nealmcb: sure, and ubuntu-devel
[16:43] <jdstrand> nealmcb: the package dependencies are very loose-- ufw doesn't have any, and packages only Suggests ufw
[16:44] <tarvid> after 20+ installations and 100+ updates, i feel qualified to return to the drupal on ubuntu issue
[16:45] <nealmcb> sommer: thanks for the ldap stuff - anything else there?
[16:45] <nealmcb> tarvid: cool - lets do that in Open Discussion - hold a bit
[16:45] <sommer> nealmcb: that's pretty much it since the last meeting
[16:45] <jdstrand> this package integration isn't too exciting with something as simple as apache, but with samba, it is pretty cool
[16:45] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
[16:45] <jdstrand> ufw allow Samba
[16:45] <jdstrand> that will open up all kinds of stuff :)
[16:45] <jdstrand> anyhoo, that's about it
[16:46]  * nealmcb hugs jdstrand
[16:46] <nealmcb> drumroll.... August 28th           FeatureFreeze
[16:46]  * jdstrand hugs nealmcb back :)
[16:46] <nealmcb> Anything else we need to review as we prepare for the big feature freeze?  Remember, it gets harder to put cool stuff in after that.....
[16:47] <NeilW> Rails support
[16:48] <nealmcb> rails, drupal, and hey, how about django (near 1.0...)
[16:48] <nealmcb> tarvid: why don't you go ahead now - you started first
[16:48] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] Drupal
[16:50] <tarvid> there have been 9 updates and major upgrade in the past year
[16:50] <tarvid> most of them are security related and the update process from ubuntu is to slow to be responsive to the security needs
[16:51] <tarvid> plus the package in the repository installs in var/www
[16:51] <tarvid> I nver use the debian/ubuntu package anymore
[16:51] <tarvid> do we want to take a fresh approach?
[16:51] <nijaba> tarvid: what would you suggest?
[16:52] <tarvid> installation from drupal.org is straight forward but using apt-get would be consistent with server users
[16:52] <tarvid> we would have to package major modules as well
[16:52] <tarvid> is that a good project for Ubuntu?
[16:53] <nijaba> tarvid: Drupal is sure quite widely used, even on ubuntu.com
[16:53] <tarvid> i do watch the security announcements daily
[16:54] <tarvid> a user space install requires a dns entry (or hosts) an apache stanza, a user account
[16:54] <nealmcb> tarvid: what are the current versions in ubuntu and upstream?  How does upstream do updates - patches to versions we have?  or new versions?
[16:55] <tarvid> there is one drupal module drush which can take over the update issue
[16:56] <tarvid> pool/universe/d/drupal5/drupal5_5.7-1ubuntu1_all.deb
[16:56] <tarvid> current version is 5.10 and 6.4
[16:57] <tarvid> there are newer but still vulnerable versions in intrepid
[16:57] <nealmcb> who is packaging it for ubuntu?
[16:58] <tarvid> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:58] <tarvid> Original-Maintainer: Luigi Gangitano<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:58] <nealmcb> ahh - it is "drupal5" package
[16:58] <tarvid> drupal5 is not all bad, drupal6 is not mature and drupal7 is in test
[16:58] <nealmcb> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=names&keywords=drupal
[16:59] <nijaba> tarvid: so, if I understand you correctly, we should provide security updates more often and provide packages for the main modules?  Would you be willing to work on this?
[16:59] <tarvid> i work on drupal daily on ubuntu servers
[16:59] <tarvid> with a small amount of discipline and personal development I could take on packaging
[17:00] <tarvid> there are some policy issues
[17:00] <tarvid> drupal provides patches for current versions but only for the previous release so we see version upgrades all the time
[17:01] <tarvid> major version upgrades are difficult as modules are decommited and replaced frequently
[17:01] <nealmcb> tarvid: have you talked with Luigi or other packagers?  They'd probably welcome patches :)
[17:01] <tarvid> I don't do patches, I do minor version upgrades
[17:01] <nealmcb> but yeah - backporting patches is a pain
[17:01] <tarvid> and we would have to do both d5 and d6 and soon d7
[17:02] <jdstrand> tarvid: I'm not clear on what you are proposing-- use 'drush', which automatically update the drupal install?
[17:02] <tarvid> drush will update the modules but not the core
[17:03] <jdstrand> (I am unfamiliar with drupal)
[17:03] <tarvid> the drupal procedure for core is safe but odious
[17:03] <jdstrand> (well, it's packaging/update procedures)
[17:03] <tarvid> i have gotten away with overwriting and existing installation with new core on d6, on d5 you have to preserve the old config file
[17:04] <tarvid> there is no way of automating d5 to d6 upgrades
[17:04] <jdstrand> tarvid: ok, so drush for modules, and minor version updates for core?
[17:04] <tarvid> that has worked for me, I have screwed that up with major version upgrades
[17:05] <tarvid> and the apache boys do not like what you have to do with apache config "allow all"
[17:05] <jdstrand> tarvid: so you are suggesting a new packaged minor version upgrade for -security each time core has a security vulnerability?
[17:05] <tarvid> that would work and might be the easiest route
[17:05] <tarvid> the user will get punished for patching drupal core
[17:06] <tarvid> if the proprieties are observed, it is safe
[17:06] <jdstrand> tarvid: assuming the user does it on his/her own
[17:06] <jdstrand> tarvid: is it that much more of a pain to backport a patch than to prepare a new package version, and all the extra testing involved?
[17:06] <tarvid> many drupal users are not sophisticated and avoiding disaster would be a kind thging to do
[17:07] <jdstrand> the main problem I see is that drupal is community supported (ie universe), but not getting as much attention as is apparently required...
[17:07] <tarvid> maybe, drush for example depends on the version numver to decide what to download when asked to install a module
[17:07] <nealmcb> we want to get to rails also - can we take this to #ubuntu-server or the mailing list
[17:08] <tarvid> there is also a netbeans beta for php and drupal which would be nifty to offer
[17:08] <jdstrand> tarvid: we have a procedure for micro version updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[17:08] <macd> nealmcb, Im here with regards to rails, not sure if NeilW is or not
[17:09]  * NeilW waves
[17:09] <nealmcb> macd: nice - NeilW is also
[17:09] <macd> Oh, Hi there, I just wandered in
[17:09] <nealmcb> so moving on....
[17:09] <tarvid> netbeans does rails also
[17:10] <tarvid> and i have a masochistic urger for java server alongside php
[17:10] <nealmcb> [ACTION] tarvid to summarize drupal issues and propose something to the mailing list
[17:10] <nealmcb> ok?
[17:10] <tarvid> will do and let you move on.
[17:10] <nealmcb> :)
[17:10] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] Rails Integration and Rubygems
[17:10] <nealmcb> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080722 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080729
[17:10] <nealmcb> NeilW, macd ^?
[17:11] <NeilW> Essentially I need some guys with commit privileges to review the Passenger package.
[17:11] <NeilW> Mathias has done a sterling job so far.
[17:11] <macd> NeilW, you updated it last week right?
[17:12] <NeilW> It's bang up to date with the 2.0.3 release which is as far as Passenger goes before Feature Freeze.
[17:12] <macd> NeilW, for sure there
[17:13] <macd> What about RubyGems do we have any upstream communication, or are we just going to try and move away from upstream there?
[17:13]  * macd recalls those are being the 2 major things outstanding
[17:14] <NeilW> Upstream are going to release 1.3.0 in the next few days. I have good communication with the Rubygems developers.
[17:14]  * nealmcb guesses that this is not about the top google hit for   passenger rails  [amtrak], though he can highly recommend amtrak as a civilized way to travel :P
[17:15] <NeilW> I have a Rubygems package in place that allows Passenger to work properly.
[17:15] <nealmcb> http://www.modrails.com/
[17:16] <nealmcb> aka "phusion passenger"
[17:16] <macd> NeilW, does the upstream 1.3.0 fix the path issues that have been an issue?
[17:17] <NeilW> No, that is entirely down to policy.
[17:18] <NeilW> So do we want Passenger in Intrepid?
[17:19] <macd> I think that is the overall goal
[17:19] <NeilW> Anybody else?
[17:19] <macd> then the next release move towards a rails app server install task
[17:19] <nealmcb> so you were asking for review - so you think  mathias will be able to do that in time, or are you  looking for other help
[17:19] <NeilW> I need 2 AFAIK
[17:19] <macd> nealmcb, it needs at least 2 acks, mathiaz is only 1 ;)
[17:20] <nealmcb> ahh
[17:20] <macd> so a few other reviewers would be great
[17:20] <nealmcb> can you all post something about it to the list or blog also?  sounds of interest to lots of folks
[17:20] <NeilW> Which list?
[17:21] <nealmcb><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:21] <nealmcb> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
[17:21] <NeilW> I did that a while ago and didn't get a lot of takers.
[17:22] <NeilW> The Ubuntu Ruby guys are well hidden!
[17:22] <NeilW> Happy to have another go though.
[17:22] <macd> or just non-existant ;)
[17:22] <NeilW> I think there is a wider discussion about Ubuntu and Ruby
[17:22] <nealmcb> I don't remember hearing about passenger before, sounds interesting
[17:22] <macd> I think I sent something out on the MOTU list a few weeks ago too
[17:23] <macd> asking for package reviewers
[17:23] <nealmcb> anyway - thanks!
[17:23] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] Open Discussion?
[17:23] <nealmcb> I know we're over time, but if there is some burning issue...
[17:23] <NeilW> soren: Is anything happening with Cobbler
[17:24] <zul> soren: ^^^
[17:26] <nealmcb> [TOPIC] Next meeting - same time same place next week?
[17:27] <sommer> sure
[17:27]  * nealmcb is glad to see signs of life :)
[17:27] <nealmcb> OK folks - thanks!
[17:27]  * nijaba agrees
[17:27] <nijaba> thanks nealmcb
[17:27] <nealmcb> :)
[17:28] <sommer> thanks nealmcb, later on all :)
[17:28] <nealmcb> now the hard part - minutes!  Unless someone else wants to do that....
[19:53] <theteju> hello
[19:53] <theteju> Every one.. I am new biee to linux-ubuntu,, need some help,, how would i join chat #ubuntu   room ?
[19:54] <nizarus> theteju, /join #ubuntu
[19:56] <theteju> i dont see any room labled #ubuntu on my room list
[19:57] <theteju> there is one says #ubuntu-dresden
[19:57] <theteju> and one says #ubuntu-meeting,, where i am in right now
[19:57] <nizarus> theteju, just type /join #ubuntu
[20:00] <theteju> no success
[20:01] <nizarus> what error message you got ?
[20:02] <theteju> nothing,, its just doing nothing once i type /join #ubuntu
[20:03] <nizarus> which irc client you have ?
[20:03] <theteju> Pidgin
[20:04] <theteju> and my account says<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(IRC)
[20:07] <nizarus> i used pidgin to test and i can join ubuntu room with the command :/
[20:08] <theteju> any other room you suggest,, i have question regarding partitioning my harddrive for clean install in near future
[20:10] <nizarus> #ubuntu-tn
[20:16] <theteju> i found it
[20:16] <theteju> thanks
[20:16] <theteju> had to scroll down manually
[20:16] <theteju> the command is not working for me ,, i dont know
[20:16] <theteju> why
[20:20] <nizarus> can you try with a "classical" irc client
[20:20] <nizarus> such as xchat


[05:47] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:13] <AlanBell> morning all
[06:33] <MartijnVdS> \o
[06:39]  * AlanBell downloads ubuntu 11.10 beta2 server
[06:39] <AlanBell> going to install Alfresco 4 on it
[06:41] <AlanBell> download complete :)
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> you need a slower internet connection :P
[07:22] <HazRPG> I need a faster one!
[07:22] <shauno> good news; egypt is famous for it's incredibly fast domestic pipes ;)
[07:22] <HazRPG> :/
[07:23] <HazRPG> shauno: at the end of the day, even though net-wise it'll suck... my mum still needs me over there really
[07:25] <AlanBell> where in egypt?
[07:25] <shauno> I almost made a very crass joke, then realised I've been spending far too much time in the wrong channels :/  so I'll go back to trying to turn our call logging server into a UT99 server :)
[07:26] <HazRPG> besides, I'm sure I'll be able to wangle something together, as long as I'm getting at least what I have now - I'll be happy ^_^
[07:26] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Cairo :)
[07:26] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Well, Giza really... but its still part of Greater Cairo ^_^
[07:27] <AlanBell> have they removed the internet off switch now?
[07:27] <HazRPG> AlanBell: heh, been back on for a long while now ^_^
[07:28] <HazRPG> I think they only turned it off for like a couple of weeks (possibly a month) or so
[07:28] <AlanBell> yes, I was just wondering if the capability to turn it off has gone
[07:29] <HazRPG> AlanBell: well... Mubarak isn't there anymore... if that's what you mean, Egypt doesn't really own an off switch... it was just a case of "Mubarak says, Mubarak gets..." sort of scenario
[07:29] <AlanBell> kim0 (Ahmed Kamal) the ubuntu cloud chap is based in cairo
[07:30] <HazRPG> AlanBell: cool :)
[07:32] <HazRPG> IIRC, there was a chart released somewhere, that showed when the DNS servers for Egypt were taken offline... and between each ISP there was like a 3-5 minute delay between them... so officials/newspapers/etc all think that it was basically Mubarak - or others who worked for him, basically going round ringing them and telling them to cut everything somehow
[07:32] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:34] <HazRPG> knightwise: morning dude
[07:35] <knightwise> hey HazRPG
[07:35] <knightwise> how are you today
[07:35] <HazRPG> knightwise: not too bad thanks, how's things your end?
[07:36] <AlanBell> I am off to the Institute of Directors in a bit for a meeting with some Redhat peeps
[07:37] <knightwise> doing fine HazRPG ,
[07:38] <knightwise> looking around for some hackintosh tutorials
[07:38] <knightwise> been running Mint on my macbook air , now i feel like i need to run osx on my pc netbook
[07:38] <knightwise> just to balance out the universe
[07:40] <AlanBell> kim0: o/
[07:41] <kim0> AlanBell: hi there
[07:42] <kim0> HazRPG: Alan was just saying you're moving to Giza ?
[07:42] <kim0> Welcome to Sunny land :)
[07:42] <HazRPG> kim0: Yeah, I'll be moving there in Nov ^_^
[07:43] <HazRPG> Nearish shara el-harram :)
[07:43] <kim0> HAHA
[07:43] <kim0> HazRPG: so you've been there before ?
[07:43] <HazRPG> knightwise: heh, so your mac is your linux, and your pc is your mac (or how you want it to be...)? :P
[07:44] <HazRPG> kim0: yeah, mother is Egyptian :P
[07:44] <kim0> HazRPG: lemme guess, English teacher ?
[07:44] <kim0> HazRPG: Oh ok .. so you know your way around
[07:44] <HazRPG> indeed ;)
[07:45] <kim0> kewl then .. ping me if you'll need anything in there, will be glad to help
[07:45] <HazRPG> kim0: I lived in bulaa' da crur for about 3 months each summer because my grandmother lived there
[07:45] <kim0> you probably know Cairo better than I do then :)
[07:45] <HazRPG> kim0: 3rif 3raby kaman ;P
[07:46] <kim0> HazRPG: m3ady
[07:46] <HazRPG> :P
[07:46] <kim0> :D
[07:46] <kim0> you're not a clueless guy in cairo then :) not worried about you .. have fun :)
[07:47] <HazRPG> kim0: hehe, thanks... you too ^_^
[07:47] <kim0> cheers
[07:47] <diplo> Morning all
[07:47] <HazRPG> diplo: mornin' dude
[07:50] <knightwise> HazRPG: indeed , mah mac runs linux , ma pc needs to run mac
[07:51] <HazRPG> knightwise: I was messing around with OSX in a VM a few weeks back
[07:51] <knightwise> HazRPG: did you get it working ?
[07:52] <HazRPG> seemed to work straight off the bat
[07:52] <knightwise> did you use a special distro ?
[07:52] <HazRPG> oh, no wait... I think I had to tweak a few things here n there to get it to actually load up...
[07:52] <knightwise> so you ran it in virtualbox ?
[07:52] <HazRPG> knightwise: not that I'm aware... but it could be
[07:53] <HazRPG> knightwise: yeah VBox 4.0 (just recently updated to 4.1, and still seems to work fine in that too)
[07:53] <HazRPG> knightwise: helps if you set stuff up to Emulate EFI in the options, but works like a charm :)
[07:53] <knightwise> so , virtualbox 4.1 and a plain and simple snow leopard install cd ?
[07:53] <HazRPG> knightwise: yup :)
[07:54] <knightwise> ok , i'll see if i have the latest version running on my server
[07:54] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:57] <knightwise> now to find out how to unisntall the old version in Fedora :=(
[07:58] <HazRPG> knightwise: iirc, I think "technically" support for OSX isn't in VBox anymore... because of licence-rights, etc... but I noticed that picking "Mac OS X Server" as the OS Type, seems to do the same job
[07:59] <knightwise> ok  , trying to remove the old version from my server now
[07:59] <HazRPG> knightwise: cool
[07:59] <knightwise> not obvious via the commandline so i see
[08:01] <HazRPG> removing it?
[08:01] <knightwise> yep
[08:01] <HazRPG> shouldn't yum just be able to get rid of it?
[08:02] <knightwise> yeah , but yum doesnt appear to find it
[08:02] <HazRPG> knightwise: package name will be "virtualbox-4.0" if its 4.0 you have on there
[08:02] <HazRPG> etc
[08:03] <knightwise> yeah , i have that =) its the old one i ccent get off
[08:03] <HazRPG> 3.2?
[08:03] <HazRPG> virtualbox-ose...
[08:04] <HazRPG> (those are the only package names I can think of)
[08:04] <knightwise> 4.0
[08:04] <knightwise> got it
[08:04] <HazRPG> knightwise: just install the new one, if removing the old one is a pain... cos the new one will automatically remove the old one before updating
[08:05] <knightwise> ah its workign
[08:05] <knightwise> had some version conflicts
[08:05] <HazRPG> ah
[08:08] <HazRPG> knightwise: brb, gimmie a nudge if you need any help ^_^
[08:08] <HazRPG> won't be long
[08:08] <knightwise> thanx HazRPG
[08:08] <knightwise> popped in the cd
[08:09] <knightwise> assigned 2 gigs of ram
[08:09] <knightwise> 20 gigs of harddrive
[08:13] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:15] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:16] <knightwise> HazRPG: did you assign 2 processors to the VM ?
[08:19] <knightwise> HazRPG: what settings did you adjust ?
[08:20] <knightwise> +msg HazRPG
[08:20] <HazRPG> knightwise: back
[08:20] <HazRPG> knightwise: I'll have a look now
[08:20] <knightwise> thanx =)
[08:22] <HazRPG> knightwise: right... lets see here...
[08:23] <HazRPG> knightwise: Enabled EFI... although if the disc doesn't boot or see your hdd, turn this off...
[08:23] <HazRPG> knightwise: processor I have set to 1, although I don't see anything wrong with having this at 2 if you can support 2, with an execution cap of 100% (again you could change this)
[08:24] <knightwise> yep , check
[08:24] <knightwise> video memory to 128mb
[08:24] <knightwise> Chipset ICH9 ?
[08:24] <HazRPG> I just used standard IDE controller, but I'm sure if things are playing up you could use SATA instead
[08:24] <knightwise> ok
[08:25] <HazRPG> knightwise: yeah ICH9
[08:25] <knightwise> and IO apic remains enabled
[08:25] <HazRPG> yeah
[08:25] <knightwise> ok , lets give it a spin
[08:27] <HazRPG> knightwise: *fingers crossed* :)
[08:27] <knightwise> thanx , holdon , little remote keyboard issue ,
[08:27] <HazRPG> hmm?
[08:29] <knightwise> virtualbox says i must use right ctrl key to disable capturing of the keyboard
[08:29] <knightwise> mac doesnt HAVE a right control key :)
[08:31] <gord> the mac version of virtualbox is saying that?
[08:31] <bigcalm> Hello World!
[08:31] <gord> because otherwise i think your keyboard is deficient ;)
[08:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: I think so, yes. Though you still haven't told me which bit of the complex I am meant to attend :)
[08:32] <knightwise> no , its virtualbox on my linux server :=)
[08:32] <knightwise> im accessing it via teamviewer
[08:32] <popey> convoluted knightwise is convoluted
[08:33] <popey> you can configure the key
[08:33] <knightwise> lol popey i know :)
[08:33] <oimon> knightwise: sounds like you need to run all that through a vnc connection too :)
[08:33] <knightwise> I have slider issues :)
[08:33] <knightwise> my server runs virtualbox
[08:33] <popey> and rdp
[08:33] <knightwise> its headless
[08:33] <JamesTait> Buongiorno a tutto!
[08:33] <knightwise> so i access it using teamviewer
[08:33] <knightwise> from a mac
[08:33] <knightwise> runnign linux
[08:34] <knightwise> how sick is that :)
[08:34] <popey> oh
[08:34] <popey> really
[08:34] <knightwise> popey , i've been meaning to ask you : you ever wanna come ont the Knightcast podcast some day ?
[08:35] <popey> yeah
[08:35] <popey> if you record on a day when I'm not at work
[08:35] <knightwise> i am doing a live show the 21st (on a friday)
[08:35] <knightwise> in the morning
[08:35] <HazRPG> knightwise: ah you can change that dude
[08:35] <knightwise> HazRPG: doing it now :)
[08:36] <HazRPG> knightwise: heh, seems popey suggested the same thing ^_^
[08:37] <shauno> I usually have capslock bound to ctrl, but I think that registers as left control still
[08:38] <knightwise> HazRPG: it kinda stops booting in the efi shell
[08:38] <knightwise> so i suppose i turn that off ,
[08:38] <knightwise> ?
[08:40] <knightwise> oops , forgot to point out the dvvd
[08:40] <knightwise> lets try again
[08:40] <HazRPG> knightwise: yeah
[08:41] <knightwise> ok , bunch of jibberish on the screen ending with "system uptime"
[08:41] <HazRPG> knightwise: hmm, I think there was a lifehacker post somewhere that I followed that showed you how to do this, I'll see if I can find it again ^_^
[08:42] <HazRPG> knightwise: http://lifehacker.com/5583650/run-mac-os-x-in-virtualbox-on-windows
[08:42] <knightwise> checking :=)
[08:42] <HazRPG> knightwise: ignore the fact that its showing you how to install it on windows - cos the steps are very similar to any version of vbox :)
[08:43] <knightwise> ok, this uses the osx86 version.
[08:43] <knightwise> not a "native osx cd"
[08:44] <knightwise> I downloaded IATKOS , perhaps i should try that Cd instead of the real osx cd
[08:46] <HazRPG> knightwise: ah, fair enough... would have thought a standard version would have worked too (considering vbox can emulate the EFI parts that OSX requires)
[08:47] <knightwise> HazRPG: trying the iatkos cd now
[08:48] <knightwise> ok, got the grey apple and the spinning thing
[08:48] <knightwise> liiks like the cd is still spinning.
[08:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:50] <HazRPG> brobostigon: mornings dude \o
[08:51] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, o/
[08:51] <HazRPG> brobostigon: how's things at your end of the isle :)
[08:51] <AlanBell> choo choo
[08:51] <oimon> openoffice is refusing to obey my porttrait/lanscape/fit to window settings :(
[08:52] <brobostigon> HazRPG: alittle cooler, and physiclly tired and my eczema isnt so hot. and you?
[08:52] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, still suffering since around oggcamp time?
[08:52] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah, I can't really complain... all good really
[08:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, isnt has been going up and down, since before then, yes.
[08:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[08:54] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah
[08:54] <HazRPG> brobostigon: *hugs*
[08:54]  * brobostigon hugs HazRPG in return.
[08:56] <HazRPG> :)
[08:57] <HazRPG> oimon: hmm, o'rly?
[08:57] <HazRPG> oimon: what's the document saved as?
[08:57] <HazRPG> oimon: I noticed that can cause issues sometimes
[08:59] <knightwise> HazRPG: :( Not working i'm afraid :(
[08:59] <knightwise> i keeps spinning the little circle of death
[09:00] <HazRPG> knightwise: hmm, ouch
[09:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm not sure I'm nipping up town tomorrow and will be checking everything is in place then
[09:08]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2
[09:08] <davmor2> morning sweetie everything okay in czajkowski world?
[09:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: righto :)
[09:13] <bigcalm> czajkowski: feeling older today?
[09:13] <czajkowski> nope
[09:13] <bigcalm> Good :)
[09:13] <czajkowski> and no where near wiser
[09:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: that's cause everytime you learn something new it pushes out something you'd already learnt
[09:14] <czajkowski> I will always remember
[09:15] <czajkowski> davmor2: is a brat
[09:15] <MooDoo> i've forgotten more then you'll ever know :D
[09:15] <davmor2> MooDoo: who are you do we know each other......I got this feeling I should know you
[09:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: you never remember :P  Never honest :)
[09:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: slap!
[09:19] <davmor2> Oh you're that MooDoo  thanks
[09:19] <MooDoo> kiss on the cheek for czajkowski
[09:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy dear czajkowski, hippo birdy 2 ewes
[09:20] <bigcalm> Bit late
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'm stealing that -- it's by dad's  birthday today :)
[09:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: no networking yesterday which sucks by the way :)
[09:25] <bigcalm> davmor2: BT?
[09:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: virgin
[09:26] <davmor2> upstream locked in nicely downstream wouldn't lock
[09:26] <bigcalm> Doh, I should have remembered that!
[09:26] <bigcalm> Weird :(
[09:27] <bigcalm> I've moved my superhub over to modem only mode. Using my Linksys router again and loving it
[09:27] <popey> :D
[09:27] <Laney> what is wrong with the superhub as a router? seems to wfm™
[09:28] <popey> yeah, modem mode is good
[09:28]  * bigcalm notes the flame war about to happen on the mail list
[09:28] <popey> :D
[09:28] <Laney> but I wonder what I am missing
[09:28] <Laney> OOH FLAMES!
[09:28] <popey> It's tuesday, time for flames! Everyone knows that silly!
[09:28] <bigcalm> Can we all just gall it Gerald?
[09:28] <popey> \o/
[09:29] <popey> Laney: it often seems to depend heavily on the infrastructure behind your superhub
[09:29] <Laney> you've noticed it being unstable?
[09:29] <popey> i have little/no problem with mine, and I'm in an ex-NTL area (apparently one of the better cabled ones)
[09:29] <Laney> oh, behind that way
[09:29] <popey> I have had to reboot it a few times, yes
[09:29] <Laney> ours seems good; solid 50Mb all of the time
[09:30] <bigcalm> Laney: I have found the superhub to be less than reliable as a router. If my 'net connection goes away, I like to still be able to talk to my other machines on my lan
[09:31] <bigcalm> I've had a lot of problems with my 1st superhub. Got better when an enginer replaced it. Still not good enough though. This is an ex-Telewest region. Don't know if that makes much of a difference though
[09:32] <Laney> so going to modem only mode is only to mitigate the problems with your dodgy cable connection?
[09:32] <popey> no, thats not why i went to modem only mode
[09:32] <bigcalm> Well, going modem only allows me to use of own choice of router. On my linksys I have dd-wrt :)
[09:33] <bigcalm> Which also gives me better wifi coverage in the house
[09:33] <Laney> the firmware doesn't seem so bad that I could be bothered to bypass it
[09:33] <Laney> maybe if I needed QoS and stuff I would
[09:33] <bigcalm> Working from home means that I notice the down time much more
[09:34] <Laney> i am permanently sshed into my home pc
[09:35] <bigcalm> Different regions have varying levels of stability :)
[09:35] <Laney> good for me, not for others
[10:19] <gord> back to banshee because rhythmbox segfaults now :'(
[10:20] <bigcalm> Aww
[10:20] <czajkowski> gord: you just break stuff
[10:21] <bigcalm> I just got used to Rhythmbox for last.fm goodness
[10:21]  * bigcalm keeps away from 11.10
[10:21]  * MartijnVdS never uses last.fm anymore
[10:21] <gord> oh i love last.fm in rhythmbox
[10:21] <gord> its the only music client that does it properly
[10:22] <bigcalm> I like to leave it on the recommendations and then get on with work
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> I've used the stand-alone client
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> that works
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> except it costs me a lot of money in new CDs ;)
[10:22] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:22] <bigcalm> Spotify \o/
[10:23] <gord> i set the last.fm tag to "awesome" and just let it give me music tagged with that
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> but then it's not MINE
[10:23] <gord> usually goes well
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> gord: Awesome
[10:23] <bigcalm> Haha, gotta try that :)
[10:25] <bigcalm> Humm
[10:25] <bigcalm> Other people's idea of awesome isn't the same as mine
[10:25] <bigcalm> Ah well
[10:26] <bigcalm> Back to recommendations
[10:29] <DJones> Grrr, this isn't fair, my wife is being given an ipad by work so she can "go paperless"
[10:32] <bigcalm> What would you do with one?
[10:33] <DJones> Sell it & buy an android tablet :)
[10:33] <DJones> Not that I've got anything against ipads, I like them, just prefer android because I'm used to that on my phone
[10:34] <bigcalm> :)
[10:34] <DJones> I'd use a tablet more for casula web browsing, book reading, multimedia etc
[10:35] <DJones> I like the look of the Samsung Galaxy 10.1" models, but they're a bit pricy
[10:36] <DJones> Kindle Fire looks good, although the screen may be a little bit small
[10:40] <gord> i still find it impossible to justify getting a tablet, even for a low price
[10:40] <bigcalm> The 7" android tablet I bought is pants
[10:41] <DJones> Which one was that bigcalm
[10:41] <bigcalm> Now only use it for checking my web work works on mobile devices
[10:41] <bigcalm> Kogan
[10:41] <gord> yeah... if you are gonna get an android tablet, get one with a lot of clout behind it
[10:41] <DJones> bigcalm: I rememebr you getting that now
[10:41] <bigcalm> It was less than 100 quid, didn't expect it to be good :D
[10:42] <DJones> I wonder whether its worth waiting for the uk release of the motorola xooom 2 if it come out here
[10:43] <gord> to be honest, if i were gonna get any tablet, it would be an amazon one. amazon own lovefilm...
[10:45] <DJones> I don't use things like lovefilm, so that wouldn't be a benefit to me, as I like Android, google own motorola now so could make sense
[10:47] <DJones> The xoom itself looks nice
[10:47] <DJones> As an example http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/motorola-xoom-tablet-pc-32gb-09752543-pdt.html
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> the xoom is _heavy_ though
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> compared to my Kindle :)
[10:48] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: The ipad is heavy in comparison to a kindle
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: sure
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> but people still use it as an e-book reader
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> I don't know how they do it, with the retina-burning brightness
[10:48] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: infact a paper back book is heavy in comparison to the kindle
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: depends on the book
[10:50] <davmor2> war and piece, gone with the wind, lord of the rings, the last harry potter take your pick :D
[10:50] <DJones> ipad 2 is 601g, xoom is 730g, new kindle is 170g, kindle keyboard is 240g
[10:50] <DJones> Kindles are in a different league weight wise
[10:51] <DJones> The kindle fire is 415g, but is a a much smaller screen
[10:52] <DJones> Not sure whether a 130g difference between the ipad & xoom would be that noticable
[10:52] <bigcalm> If you're holding it for a long time, it would be
[10:53] <bigcalm> Even with my 3rd gen Kindle, I notice the weight after a while
[10:53] <bigcalm> I wonder if needs charging up :)
[10:54] <DJones> Galaxy Tab 1.1 os 590g
[10:54] <bigcalm> Nope :D
[10:54] <DJones> s/os/is/
[10:55] <bigcalm> When I gave my Kindle to my Mum to play with, the 1st thing she did was to try and swipe the screen :S
[10:55] <directhex> bigcalm, kindle touch!
[10:55] <Guest31871> stupid nickserv
[10:55] <Guest31871> stupid irc bouncer
[10:56] <davmor2> Guest31871: muhahahahaha gord irc hates you hate it back works for me
[10:57] <Guest31871> stupid everything
[10:57] <popey> bigcalm: everyone does that :D
[11:00] <bigcalm> But she doesn't even have a touch interface phone
[11:00] <shauno> I think the trick is to be nicer to your mom, and get her a real ipad
[11:00] <bigcalm> Most strange
[11:00] <bigcalm> She and Hayley won't use them. Both say that they prefer books
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> strange people
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> Book + train = broken book (especially hardcover books are very breakable)
[11:01] <gord> kindle + plane = broken kindle (for me, once, amazon were great and sent me a new one though)
[11:02] <bigcalm> Trains are why 98% of my book collection are paperbacks
[11:02] <DJones> The number of books I read (especially on holiday), I'd use up my luggage allowance just with them
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Trains are why I bought a Sony PRS-600 2 years ago, and a new Kindle is on its way to me atm :)
[11:03] <shauno> most planes are designed to crush souls.  I'm rarely surprised when there's a little collateral damage
[11:04] <bigcalm> The sun is shining. I thought the forecast was for misery once more?
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> The Sun is misery, isn't it?
[11:04] <bigcalm> Ah, that's this afternoon :)
[11:05] <gord> its definitely getting colder, i can tell because i am apparently wearing socks toda
[11:05] <gord> today*
[11:06] <bigcalm> The nights are still uncomfortable up here
[11:07] <davmor2> gord: welcome back dude
[11:09] <davmor2> gord: just socks,  Man you really need to think about wearing clothes before joining the channel ;)
[11:10] <gord> working from home does have its benefits
[11:10] <bigcalm> I'm surprised that I wear as much clothing as I do
[11:10] <bigcalm> Working in your slippers is nice though :)
[11:58] <DJones> This is disappointing http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42300/no-kindle-fire-touch-uk
[11:59] <oimon> DJones: wow
[12:01] <shauno> odd that they say amazon haven't given a reason, when we already know what it is
[12:01] <popey> pffft
[12:01] <popey> they just want to stop people waiting for the fire
[12:01] <popey> to get people to buy the current models
[12:02] <oimon> i thought the reason was the USA is the primary market for amazon and everybody else just has to lump it
[12:03] <shauno> the fire is android-based, but locked down to amazon's app store.  which isn't in the UK yet, as I understand it
[12:03] <oimon> too far for the poor bytes to travel
[12:04] <shauno> since they're being sold at a loss atm, zero sense putting it into markets where they're not going to recoup the losses thru the appstore
[12:04] <DJones> There's also rumours of a larger screen kindle fire due out next year
[12:04] <shauno> oimon, if only it was that simple.  our bytes run on a different voltages to theirs :p
[12:04] <oimon> and they have a funny accent
[12:05] <DJones> Maybe the uk will get that as a first option with the amazon app store
[12:07] <DJones> The more I read reviews, the one that gets the best overall reviews looks to be the motorola xoom
[12:22] <oimon> i think i just have to get the new cheap kindle £89 one
[12:22] <oimon> wife's bday is this week
[12:38] <DJones> I would struggle to justify a kindle as an ebook ready alone when a tablet can do so much more, although price is an important issue if all you want to do is read books/magazines etc
[12:41] <oimon> she's dyslexic and for some reason finds it easier to read on a kindle/tablet than a white page
[12:45] <oimon> interesting: "The Court of Justice holds that national legislation which prohibits the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards is contrary to the freedom to provide services and cannot be justified either in light of the objective of protecting intellectual property rights or by the objective of encouraging the public to attend football stadiums."
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> Not that I'd WANT to buy Sky from the Netherlands... :)
[12:55] <oimon> i wonder what this means for live internet streaming
[12:57] <JGJones> DJones, I could justify a kindle as a ebook alone providing the cost is low enough. I do have a tablet, but the Kindle is far much easier to read. The difference of display is quite large. My father have one while I have a tablet. Obviously I'm using the tablet + kindle app a lot, but when I visit my dad's, I prefer reading on his Kindle.
[13:01] <DJones> JGJones: I've got a reasonable phone which I use for ebook reading at the minute, so the cost of a pure ebook reader compared to already having that would be against the kindle alone
[13:02] <gord> reading on the kindle is sooo nice,
[13:02] <JGJones> I'll buy a kindle - under £50. £89 still too high for me :)
[13:02] <gord> just wish the page refresh was faster, i hear the new one is
[13:03] <davmor2> gord: it is indeed,  my wife loves hers
[13:03] <gord> davmor2, is the new one all touchy feely?
[13:03] <gord> not really looked at it much, but they removed the keyboard so it must be surely?
[13:03] <oimon> the new one is not touch screen AFAIK
[13:04] <davmor2> gord: hers is the mark 3 not the new one
[13:04] <davmor2> she had it for xmas
[13:04] <oimon> and uses virtual keyboard navigated by the directional pad
[13:05] <gord> well thats made me not want it :(
[13:05] <gord> davmor2, which one is the one i have?
[13:05] <gord> i think i got it this time last year
[13:08] <oimon> davmor2: does she use the keyboard nmuch?
[13:08] <davmor2> oimon: yeap to search for books
[13:08] <oimon> to buy? or search on her device
[13:11] <oimon> the battery life on the new kindle is half as much. probably related to the weight reduction
[13:12] <hamitron> the £90 one?
[13:12] <oimon> hamitron: yes, go to http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindle-Wi-Fi-6-Ink-Display/dp/B0051QVF7A and view the section on compare kindles
[13:12] <hamitron> heh, I tend to ignore the advertising
[13:13] <hamitron> ;)
[13:13] <hamitron> marketing crap is always the best case
[13:13] <oimon> however it's X/2 now
[13:13] <hamitron> my biggest question, is how pictures look on the screen
[13:14] <hamitron> £90 is almost tempting
[13:14] <oimon> mono pics?
[13:14] <hamitron> well, any
[13:14] <hamitron> mono and colour
[13:14] <hamitron> :)
[13:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am liking the new Ubuntu Polo Shirts... http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=879
[13:14] <JGJones> Interesting...only just heard that latest version of Gnome ship with a new file manager called Emperor - http://code.jollybox.de/emperor.xhtml
[13:17] <hamitron> grrrr
[13:18] <hamitron> internet seems to be slowing down
[13:18] <hamitron> last week just seems insanely slow when accessing stuff in the US
[13:19] <oimon> haven't had that problem since 1997
[13:20] <hamitron> I can't even get 128kbps radio streams working fully atm
[13:22] <oimon> microsoft have officially killed the zune!
[13:23] <hamitron> is that the music thingy?
[13:23] <oimon> yeah, still never seen a real one
[13:23]  * hamitron neither
[13:29] <JGJones> me too...not even in shops.
[13:30] <oimon> someone gave one to my brother but he couldn't download the software for windows because he was outside the US
[13:30] <oimon> i dare say it would have worked under ubunt
[13:30] <davmor2> JGJones: it's not shipped yet it might ship in the version coming out in march/april time
[14:35]  * GirlyGirl thinks Atharva is about to say something
[14:35] <Atharva> Hi...I have a switchable graphics laptop with AMD Radeon HD 6470 and Intel Sandy Bridge. And after I installed ati restricted drivers it crashed to terminal.How to recover it ? Any Ideas ?
[14:38] <Atharva> GirlyGirl : No one to answer..
[14:39] <GirlyGirl> Atharva: Maybe later, Uk comes online in the night hours
[14:39] <Azelphur> Atharva: first thing to do is to look at the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[14:39] <oimon> room has been quiet today
[14:39] <oimon> wonder if #ati might help?
[14:40] <Azelphur> If you install Ubuntu, then you install xubuntu-desktop, is there any way to remove all the gnome specific/ubuntu stuff?
[14:40] <Azelphur> I have 2 keyboard configuration applications, for example.
[14:43] <Myrtti> there used to be a way, but I think it's outdated by now
[14:45] <GirlyGirl> Azelphur: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce
[14:46] <Azelphur> phew that's a lot of packages
[14:46] <Azelphur> hopefully nothing will break :p
[14:46] <GirlyGirl> Azelphur: It won't I've done it many times
[14:46] <Azelphur> yea but I'm on 11.10 :(
[14:47] <GirlyGirl> Azelphur: but to be safe after you remove do an install for xubuntu-desktop
[14:47] <GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Ah that might cause trouble!
[14:47] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:47] <Azelphur> I'm gonna have to find lots of packages that no doubt have changed names :p
[14:48] <oimon> isn't it easier to ..gasp..install xubuntu?
[14:49] <Azelphur> oimon: reinstall my entire OS? :(
[14:49] <oimon> do you normally upgrade every sixmonths?
[14:49] <Azelphur> I wanted to try XFCE, now I want to switch to it, reinstalling the whole OS isn't really fun
[14:49] <Azelphur> yea, I usually keep up with release cyclecs
[14:49] <Azelphur> cycles*
[14:49] <oimon> reinstall OS only became a bad thing since microsoft made it so bad
[14:49] <oimon> i use kickstart to reinstall OS of my users all the time.
[14:50] <Azelphur> yea, I could reinstall and I do have separate /home, but I don't wanna D:
[14:50] <oimon> the more u do it, the more streamline your process becomes :D
[14:50] <theashman> is there a way to specify that a process should be low priority?
[14:51] <bigcalm> nice
[14:51] <bigcalm> !nice
[14:51] <oimon> !renice
[14:52] <theashman> tyvm
[14:52] <bigcalm> yw :)
[14:58] <AlanBell>  http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=14 tshirts \o/
[15:00] <gord> hrm, i never did get my ocelot t-shirt :(
[15:02] <MooDoo> i still wear my maverick t-shirt :D
[15:02] <AlanBell> hardy shirt ftw
[15:03]  * Azelphur was clever and bought a generic Ubuntu logo tshirt :p
[15:05] <Monsterwizard> awesome
[15:05] <Monsterwizard> btw, is 11:10 going to be a LTS edition
[15:05] <GirlyGirl> Monsterwizard: No
[15:06] <theashman> 12.04 be next LTS?
[15:06] <oimon> i have a kubuntu tshirt woops
[15:06] <Monsterwizard> damn it D:
[15:06] <oimon> !LTS
[15:06] <oimon> !releases
[15:06] <oimon> theashman: yes :P
[15:07] <Monsterwizard> has anyone gone to a ubuntu uk meeting?
[15:07] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Since Windows NT, I never had a reinstall problem with microsoft
[15:07] <AlanBell> yes Monsterwizard
[15:07] <theashman> Anyone going to the Leeds meeting?
[15:07] <Monsterwizard> interesting I'm thinking of going to one
[15:08] <GirlyGirl> Who is going to the release party of 11.10
[15:08] <AlanBell> I am going to the London one
[15:08] <oimon> GirlyGirl: windows stores stuff in registry etc that it's impossible to backup. linux allows you to keep your home dir
[15:09] <ikonia> Any of you UK guys have a UK contact that works with perspex ? cutting for example ?
[15:09] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Possible to backup, its somewhere in sys32.... not saying windows is better but since NT it is better than people give it credit for
[15:09] <Monsterwizard> a
[15:10] <oimon> GirlyGirl: i have to disagree. performing a clean install of MS OS *will* mean you lose app settings
[15:11] <AlanBell> !windows
[15:13] <AlanBell> GirlyGirl: as you asked the question, are you going to a release party?
[15:13] <GirlyGirl> AlanBell: I don't think so London is far fo me
[15:13] <AlanBell> Leeds is the other one on the day
[15:13] <AlanBell> and then we have the Happy Hour tour going all over the place
[15:16] <GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Leeds is even more distant!
[15:17] <theashman> But Leeds is awesome
[15:17] <Monsterwizard> Leeds is...rough
[15:17] <Monsterwizard> :P
[15:17] <theashman> Haha. Only a little...
[15:18] <theashman> Just stick to well lit areas and you'll be safe
[15:19] <Monsterwizard> Bristol is too
[15:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Leeds is "t'oop north"
[15:20] <GirlyGirl> AlanBell: But obviously you're going, aren't you the event organiser?
[15:22] <Azelphur> got a USB drive, deleted some files off it, it's moved them into the .Trash-1000 directory, and I can't delete this directory :/
[15:22] <Azelphur> but I need the space on the USB drive free'd up, suggestions?
[15:22] <theashman> TheOpenSourcerer: Nowt wrong wi it up 'ere...
[15:22] <theashman> </terrible attempt at yorkshire speak>
[15:23] <theashman> Azelphur: empty the wastebasket
[15:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> theashman: Your dialect works for me ;-)
[15:23] <Azelphur> ah, I think there's something weird going on, it says error deleting fat entry beyond EOF in dmesg, and puts the filesystem into read only
[15:23]  * DJones gives TheOpenSourcerer some ferrets to stick down his trousers
[15:23] <Azelphur> I guess I'll format it
[15:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/yourusbstick ?
[15:25] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: hehe, format is easy enough too
[15:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
[15:38] <Monsterwizard> lol awesome name TheOpenSourcer
[15:39] <oimon> anyone tried fedora 16 yet?
[15:41] <Monsterwizard> yes
[15:41] <Monsterwizard> I couldn't use the wireless driver
[15:41] <Monsterwizard> D:
[15:41] <Monsterwizard> for my acer
[15:41] <Monsterwizard> apart from that...it's alright
[15:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks Monsterwizard I like yours too
[15:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I thought of it walking to the pub on a sunny evening
[15:50] <oimon> Monsterwizard: still no minimize button on fedora i see
[15:50] <Monsterwizard> oh and that
[15:50] <Monsterwizard> What desktop environment are you using?
[15:50] <oimon> which proves an insane person made it
[15:50] <oimon> gnome2+docky
[15:51] <Monsterwizard> ahh yes
[15:51] <Monsterwizard> does your wireless card work ok?
[15:52] <oimon> on fedora? i tried it on a desktop pc via usb stick. i didn't like what i saw so i didn't install it
[15:52] <Monsterwizard> ah
[15:54] <gr33npeace> morning all, the countdown site isn't showing the countdown for me!  http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[15:54] <gr33npeace> the rest of the page loads, but no countdown appears!  anyone else seeing that?
[15:55] <AlanBell> the countdown is javascript based
[15:56] <gr33npeace> AlanBell: yup, and javascript is enabled for all sites
[15:56] <gr33npeace> I'm behind a proxy, could that be it?
[16:02] <kirrus> gr33npeace: if the proxy is interferring with javascript, possibly :)
[16:03] <Azelphur_> Just installed xubuntu fresh, trying to run apt-get update but I get lots of W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-backports/universe/i18n/Translation-en  Something wicked happened resolving 'None:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
[16:04] <Azelphur_> various different urls, all the same messages, about 50 or so times, any ideas?
[16:05] <jpds> Azelphur_: No address associated with hostname
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> looks like a botched proxy config
[16:06] <jpds> Azelphur_: Something wrong with your DNS.
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> or dns
[16:06] <Azelphur_> why is it even trying to resolve "none:http"? my /etc/apt/sources.list is fine
[16:06] <Azelphur_> jpds: if there was something wrong with my DNS I wouldn't be online talking to you :P
[16:06] <Azelphur_> my DNS is fine
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: have you checked /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
[16:06] <jpds> Azelphur_: host gb.archive.ubuntu.com
[16:06] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: empty directory
[16:07] <Azelphur_> jpds: gb.archive.ubuntu.com has address <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: can you pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list?
[16:07] <gr33npeace> kirrus: is that likely!?  :)  I had no idea... rest of the page loads fine!  very strange
[16:07] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/Sd4hNyBm
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: looks fine...
[16:08] <Azelphur_> indeed :(
[16:08] <Azelphur_> I am on a daily, maybe this daily is just broken
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: nah then it's be broken for me too
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> it'd*
[16:09] <Azelphur_> *shrug*
[16:09] <Azelphur_> It tried to run do-release-upgrade too, which also errors
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: is there proxy info in your environment?
[16:10] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: I didn't set any up, if there is where would it be?
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: try "printenv | grep -i proxy" first
[16:10] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: nothing
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur_: and in the proxy config dialog?
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> for your user
[16:11] <Azelphur_> http://pastebin.com/KDbwX5K0 is the error I get from do-release-upgrade, kinda interesting that it's also trying to resolve "none"
[16:11]  * MartijnVdS has no idea, maybe popey (the proxy man) recognises the error
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> it also uses apt
[16:11] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: not sure where that is
[16:12] <AlanBell> I have seen that error when I didn't have a dns server set
[16:12] <AlanBell> did sudo dhclient and it picked it up
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> can you check in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> if there's something defining a proxy
[16:13] <davmor2> http://thisisthefinalcountdown.com/
[16:13] <davmor2> hahahaaaa
[16:13] <AlanBell> have you installed apt-squid-proxy-client or similar
[16:13] <Azelphur_> this is a fresh installation, I havn't installed anything
[16:13] <Azelphur_> MartijnVdS: no mention of proxy in that directory (either in the files, or file names)
[16:15] <davmor2> AlanBell: popey: czajkowski: http://thisisthefinalcountdown.com/  and the winner of satirical countdown banner goes too
[16:15] <AlanBell> http://thisisntthecountdown.com/
[16:16] <Azelphur_> Guess I'll try installing beta 2, see if that gets me anywhere
[19:17] <Azelphur> hmm, I seem to have killed my flash player. :(
[19:18] <mgdm> that'd be fine, if you managed to kill everyone else's at the same time
[19:18] <Azelphur> true story
[19:18]  * Azelphur just uses youtube html5 for now
[19:19] <diplo> Anyone else have issues with messages not being sent with Empathy on MSN network ?
[19:20] <diplo> Been happening over different versions
[19:20] <brobostigon> i have been getting that every so often in bitlbee aswell.
[19:22] <Azelphur> brobostigon: that would be unrelated, bitlbee uses it's own protocol code (although recently it's been adapted to have libpurple support, but still nothing to do with telepathy :p)
[19:22] <diplo> Works fine with pidgin always
[19:22] <brobostigon> Azelphur: good point, yes.
[19:22] <diplo> It's always Empathy that fails :/
[19:22] <diplo> Not just me as well
[19:59] <Azelphur> Anyone care to help me figure out why flash isn't working? I've installed the flashplugin-downloader package, but no flash in either chromium or fireofx
[20:01] <GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Maybe downloader did not finish the install?
[20:01] <Azelphur> if it did, it didn't say so
[20:02] <dwatkins> Azelphur: have you tried starting the browser from the commandline to see if it writes any errors there?
[20:02] <dwatkins> also, which browser?
[20:03] <Azelphur> dwatkins: chrome and firefox, and no flash related errors I can see :(
[20:04] <dwatkins> chrome has its own flash
[20:04] <Azelphur> sorry, chromium
[20:04] <dwatkins> ah ok
[20:04] <dwatkins> what do you see where a flash animation should be, Azelphur?
[20:04] <Azelphur> the usual "Go install flash player" thing
[20:04] <Azelphur> and flash player is not in about:plugins
[20:05] <Azelphur> dwatkins: hmm just went to http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/plugincheck/
[20:05] <mgdm> Chrome has its own Flash *if you're on 32-bit*
[20:06] <Azelphur> and it says "Missing flash?" "For your safety, Firefox has disabled your outdated version of Flash. Please upgrade to the latest version."
[20:06] <dwatkins> what does "about:plugins" say, Azelphur?
[20:06] <dwatkins> (in firefox)
[20:07] <Azelphur> just icedtea
[20:07] <dwatkins> flash isn't installed, or it's not been detected by the browser
[20:07] <Azelphur> yea, I gathered that much myself :p
[20:08] <dwatkins> dpkg thinks it is?
[20:08] <Azelphur> yep
[20:08] <dwatkins> I installed "flashplugin-installer" on my old Ubuntu 10.10 box, I don't know what your package does.
[20:09] <GirlyGirl> bye
[20:09] <dwatkins> A+
[20:10] <Azelphur> dwatkins: fixed it by removing all the flash player packages and installing flashplugin-installer again :D
[20:10] <dwatkins> hooray
[20:10] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:11] <diplo-> For a beta, Oneric is buggy as shite
[20:11] <Azelphur> diplo-: wuss
[20:11] <Azelphur> :p
[20:11] <diplo-> Nautilus crashes what ever i do, I have had whole laptop lock up
[20:13] <mgdm> genius
[20:13] <mgdm> err, wrong window
[20:14] <davmor2> diplo-: you mean you don't do everything from TTY1 what do you think this is some sort of windows replacement or something ;)
[20:14] <diplo-> :P
[20:17] <diplo-> I've not known a beta to be this buggy tbh, Alphas yeah
[20:21] <ali1234> what about natty? that was pretty buggy
[20:22] <popey> yeah
[20:22] <popey> diplo-: ATI video card?
[20:22] <ali1234> or 8.04?
[20:22] <ali1234> how about 8.10?
[20:23] <Azelphur> or <insert thing that was once beta here>
[20:23] <ali1234> nah
[20:23] <ali1234> those releases were terrible
[20:23] <diplo-> popey, intel
[20:23] <diplo-> I didn't try Natty as I was happy on maverick
[20:23] <diplo-> during the betas that is
[20:23] <ali1234> karmic was probably the buggiest at time of release
[20:24] <diplo-> Really not for me, found it fine
[20:25] <popey> people have short memories
[20:25] <popey> well, some have very long memories too :D
[20:25] <diplo-> :)
[20:25] <ali1234> jaunty, now that was a good one
[20:25] <popey> hmm, I'm getting that "wake computer from suspend, it immediately goes back into suspend again" thing
[20:29] <ali1234> diplo-: nautilus crashing is a known bug. waiting for repos to sync for the update
[20:29] <diplo-> Cool
[20:29] <diplo-> Started working now
[20:29] <ali1234> however since it is ubuntuone related, i was not affected, due to it being the first thing i uninstall
[20:34] <diplo-> Ah i am syncing via u1 now
[20:34] <diplo-> Wondering if it was part of the issue
[20:43] <Azelphur> hmm, I seem to have lots of weird boxes in conky :(
[20:43] <Azelphur> even on plaintext output, sense this makes none D:
[21:39] <Azelphur> well this sucks, conky seems to be broken in 11.10 :(
[21:39] <Azelphur> It exhibits generally weird behaviour and prints boxes all over the place
[21:39] <Azelphur> even with an entirely fresh conkyrc which only contains very basic things
[21:41] <Laney> looks alright here
[21:42] <Azelphur> Laney: see if you get the same thing as me, make a text file and put this in it http://pastebin.com/88gWFn2N
[21:42] <Azelphur> Laney: then put ${execpi 1 cat /path/to/textfile}
[21:43] <Azelphur> and see if you get lots of weird boxes at the beginning of lines \o/
[21:58] <Seeker`> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/10/04/1343217/deadline-approaches-for-registration-in-stanfords-free-cs-classes <- this seems cool
[22:22] <dwatkins> Seeker`: yeah :)
[22:57] <kaushal> Hi
[22:57] <kaushal> can someone please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-October/252250.html ?
[22:59] <AlanBell> kaushal: I would try the lastest live desktop CD, a daily oneiric or something. Just to do a quick test to see if is recognised in that or not.
[22:59] <kaushal> ok
[23:00] <kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
[23:04] <kaushal> AlanBell: do i refer to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/oneiric-desktop-i386.iso ?
[23:10] <AlanBell> kaushal: yeah, I would give that a go
[23:11] <AlanBell> if it works then you know the hardware is OK and will be supported at some point, then you can decide whether to run 10.04 with hacked together drivers for it, or maybe try 11.04 server, or maybe wait a week and be bold and go for 11.10 server
[23:12] <AlanBell> if it doesn't work, then you can carry on with trying to get upstream support for the drivers
[23:13] <AlanBell> by which I mean compiling them from source or whatever
[23:14] <kaushal> AlanBell: ok
[23:14] <kaushal> understood completely
[23:15] <AlanBell> buying another network card should be an option to consider as well
[23:15] <kaushal> AlanBell: yes
[23:15] <kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
[23:16] <kaushal> AlanBell: makes sense since it involves lot of effort
[23:16] <kaushal> not worth the time
[23:16] <AlanBell> yeah, even if it is a cheap £15 desktop card that you throw away in 6 months when the good one has supported drivers
[23:17] <kaushal> AlanBell: sure and Thanks
[23:32] <szymon_g> hi
[23:33] <szymon_g> i've got a question: since alternatecd doesn't seem to work on my pc; can i setup raid/lvm from livecd /on ubuntu 11.10 beta2/? what extra packages i have to install /on livecd session/? will i be able to setup /dev/md0 etc for mounting points /and rest on lvm/?