[05:54] <imbrandon> hazmat / SpamapS ( i know neither of you are around yet, this is for later ) : can their be custom "hybrid" providers , e.g. unholly marages between like google storage ( that provides s3 api and even uses s3cmd for its cli tool ) and ec2 or an openstack compute , and if so how would one such env.y look ?
[05:54] <imbrandon> s/their/there
[06:14] <SpamapS> imbrandon: it would need to be written, but it wouldn't be hard to make happen
[06:14] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I've suggested a few times that we should consider decoupling storage from compute
[06:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: also I think we can remove the S3 dependency entirely
[06:16] <SpamapS> imbrandon: just fire up something for storage on node 0, and use ec2 groups to find it.
[06:39] <imbrandon> SpamapS: awesom
[06:42] <imbrandon> SpamapS: next question is do we do that in go or python, i'm kinda curious to get started with some go
[06:43] <imbrandon> SpamapS: btw i did a lil screencast bout blitz'ing omgubuntu today , go like or plus one it or whatever its called :)
[06:43] <imbrandon> :)
[07:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: nice
[07:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: so we're stuck in a weird spot right now
[07:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: python dev is supposed to cease...
[07:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: but go is still not really useable
[07:16] <SpamapS> imbrandon: they'll be usable soon.. and caught up I'm sure in a "months" measurable time frame
[07:20] <bkerensa> =o
[07:20] <SpamapS> yeah, I am =o too :-P
[07:20] <bkerensa> SpamapS: python dev will cease wha?
[07:21] <SpamapS> bkerensa: yeah, all new features will go into the go version
[07:21] <bkerensa> oh
[07:21] <SpamapS> but..
[07:21] <bkerensa> so python-dev will not be carried as a package anymore?
[07:21] <SpamapS> I dunno.. they seem very far behind.
[07:21] <SpamapS> bkerensa: no we'll keep shipping python-dev in Ubuntu.. ;)
[07:22] <bkerensa> oh l
[07:22] <bkerensa> ok then :D
[07:22] <SpamapS> bkerensa: or are you meaning, python-juju ?
[07:22] <SpamapS> That version is the only working version of juju right now, so it will continue to be the one that goes into Ubuntu until the go version can do everything it can.
[07:22] <bkerensa> python2.7-dev
[07:22] <bkerensa> :P
[07:23] <SpamapS> right ok well I'm too tired to know if we're talking in circles or I'm just out of brain power
[07:23] <SpamapS> so.. I'll just sleep. :-P
[10:15] <imbrandon> bkerensa: we're only talking of python dev ceasing in relation to juju core, not ubuntu as a whole, juju is being rewritten in go
[10:15] <imbrandon> SpamapS: gnight , see ya when ya wake :)
[12:32] <Daviey> hola
[12:45] <niemeyer> Hello all
[12:46]  * koolhead17 hola backs Daviey :P
[12:46] <koolhead17> niemeyer, hi
[13:00] <fwereade__> niemeyer, heyhey
[13:00] <fwereade__> niemeyer, is it meeting time?
[13:02] <niemeyer> fwereade__: It was 14UTC, but if everybody is ready we can do it now
[13:02] <fwereade__> niemeyer, I'm easy, just hadn't picked up on being 2 hours off instead of 1
[15:19] <jcastro> fwereade__: hey, did we forget to announce subordinates on the mailing list?
[15:21] <fwereade__> jcastro, if yu mean constraints, then ...er, probably, there hasn't been anything since the warning mail a couple of weeks ago
[15:22] <jcastro> hmm, did I miss the mail on subordinates then?
[15:23] <fwereade__> jcastro, ...and if you do mean subordinates then I'm afraid I have no idea, I've been up to my eyebrows in constraints exclusively, sorry
[15:23] <jcastro> ok I think I am mixing you up with someone else. :)
[15:23] <jcastro> but hey a quick "hey guys this is finished, here are the docs" wouldn't hurt for constraints either.
[15:24] <jcastro> ah, subordinates, that's hazmat and bsaller right?
[15:25] <jcastro> hazmat: ping
[15:25] <fwereade__> jcastro, thanks, good plan
[15:31] <imbrandon> hrm i deleted this branch long ago, http://jujucharms.com/~imbrandon/oneiric/quickdrop
[15:31] <imbrandon> should it not get cleaned up ?
[15:31] <jcastro> when?
[15:31] <imbrandon> on cron ?
[15:32] <imbrandon> as in the branch has been gone for weeks
[15:32] <jcastro> did you just now remove it?
[15:32] <jcastro> oh
[15:32] <jcastro> sounds like a bug then
[15:32] <imbrandon> maybe 2 weeks
[15:32] <jcastro> sec
[15:32] <imbrandon> kk
[15:32] <jcastro> I'll file it
[15:32] <imbrandon> kk ty ty :)
[15:32] <jcastro> it's lp:~charmworld for the web UI btw
[15:32] <imbrandon> ahhh kk
[15:33] <imbrandon> btw i installed hub, makes git work with github like bzr does lp , soooo nice
[15:34] <imbrandon> git clone drupal6 == clones my fork of drupal6 or , git clone jcastro/drupal6 == for yours :)
[16:33] <hazmat> jcastro, pong
[16:33] <hazmat> yeah.. i don't think we've announced the subordinate capability
[16:33] <hazmat> they landed end of last week
[16:33]  * jcastro nods
[16:33] <SpamapS> we should
[16:33] <jcastro> wouldn't hurt to post it this week
[16:33] <SpamapS> I've already written puppet as a subordinate charm
[16:33] <jcastro> constraints was just announced!
[16:34] <hazmat> and their even documented.. https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/subordinate-services.html
[16:34] <SpamapS> Yeah the docs are very good
[16:34]  * imbrandon is working on his first sub charm now, newrelic
[16:34] <SpamapS> though the 'juju-info' relation is not super discoverable in them
[16:35] <hazmat> hmm.. good point
[16:35] <SpamapS> oh yeah we need to make an RDS sub charm
[16:35] <SpamapS> and an ELB sub charm would be cool too
[16:35] <imbrandon> hell yea
[16:36] <SpamapS> also a mysql proxy sub charm with the 'is this a write or a read' ruleset that can then send writes or reads to masters/slaves
[16:36] <SpamapS> <-- full of ideas, out of time ;)
[16:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, why those  be sub charms? their both standalones
[16:36] <hazmat> rds and elb
[16:36] <SpamapS> hazmat: you're going to run an entire instance, to make API calls?
[16:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: external services work great as subs
[16:37] <hazmat> SpamapS, or i propogate ec2 credentials everywhere?
[16:37] <SpamapS> or, should anyway
[16:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: thats why Amazon has the sub-creds stuff
[16:37] <imbrandon> sub keys
[16:37]  * SpamapS forgets the acronym
[16:37] <hazmat> jcastro, so i'm not entirely clear that we ever allow 'deletion' of a charm
[16:37] <imbrandon> iam
[16:37] <imbrandon> hpcloud has it too
[16:37] <hazmat> niemeyer, does the charm store ever delete a charm because its upstream branch in lp is gone?
[16:38] <niemeyer> hazmat: Nope
[16:38] <SpamapS> hazmat: I happen to agree with you, but short of placement: local .. we really shouldn't waste an instance on stuff like that.
[16:38] <SpamapS> doh
[16:38] <imbrandon> hazmat: the charm in question is mine, i renamed it and the old one is gone for good
[16:38] <SpamapS> we need like, a daily delete cron or something
[16:38] <imbrandon> like for weeks now
[16:38] <imbrandon> i'm sure there are others though
[16:39] <SpamapS> deletes.. the bane of all syncing systems
[16:39] <imbrandon> http://jujucharms.com/~imbrandon/oneiric/quickdrop
[16:39] <imbrandon> --delete-after :)
[16:39] <jcastro> Do we care if they're deleted or not, maybe just "don't display"?
[16:40] <imbrandon> well it dont display now, i found it via the interfaces
[16:40] <imbrandon> well dont display on the main cs
[16:40] <imbrandon> clicked interfaces, then http, then there i was :)
[16:40] <imbrandon> heh
[16:41] <hazmat> jcastro, imbrandon the problem is someone may have already deployed it
[16:41] <jcastro> oh
[16:41] <hazmat> and at that point deleting it is.. is really bad for a user of the charm
[16:41] <imbrandon> but yes ultra hide seems ok since thet are essentially namespaced by dev, so even someone with the same name charm would be ok later
[16:42] <jcastro> ok so I would think we'd do that for cs:foo, but not cs:somedude/foo
[16:42] <imbrandon> hazmat: not knowing its un-maintained might be as bad though
[16:43] <imbrandon> and if the branch is gone , whats the hurt in deleting it, it cant be deployed anyhow
[16:43] <hazmat> imbrandon, true... for the browser we could hide it from listings and search, but show it on direct nav
[16:43] <hazmat> and perhaps highlight its unmaintained status..
[16:43] <jono> SpamapS, you around?
[16:44] <jcastro> hazmat: that's what I was thinking
[16:44] <imbrandon> hazmat: yea i'd say hilight its unmaintained too
[16:44] <imbrandon> and even put that in juju status if able to
[16:44] <SpamapS> jono: I am! wassup?
[16:44] <jcastro> "branch not found, there's a good chance this might be unmaintained, here's a link to the official one in this same namespace..." or something
[16:44] <jono> SpamapS, I have these nodes that just arrived at my place, I am going to bring them in this afternoon, but will need a hand getting them in the venue
[16:44] <jono> can you help me?
[16:44] <jcastro> jono: he's not there, you want zul or Daviey
[16:45] <SpamapS> jono: I arrive Thursday morning
[16:45] <imbrandon> heh
[16:45] <jono> ahhhh np
[16:45] <SpamapS> jono: when I said I'm "around" .. I'm .. like.. fat, and spilling all over my chair. ;)
[16:45] <jono> zul, Daviey can either of you guys help?
[16:45] <jono> SpamapS, lulz
[16:45] <imbrandon> they should have made openstack closer to with uds so i coulda went :)
[16:46] <imbrandon> hahah
[16:46] <SpamapS> imbrandon: it has become the pre-drinking event to get your liver ready for UDS
[16:46] <imbrandon> hahah
[16:46] <hazmat> jono, i'm around
[16:46] <hazmat> jono, i can rope in folks as needed to help out
[16:46] <imbrandon> i'm good then, no need to see jono bottle dance after the first time
[16:47] <imbrandon> although i am hoping he drags along a les paul or some such this time since its not that far :)
[16:47] <jono> hazmat, that would be cool
[16:48] <jono> I am going to go and see if they fit in my car in a few mins
[16:49] <SpamapS> heh.. jono is juju's roadie
[16:49] <imbrandon> hah
[17:02] <SpamapS> man, we need to revive the effort to have '--set' passable to deploy. That was a great idea.
[17:07] <marcoceppi> --set for like, initial config options?
[17:08] <SpamapS> yeah
[17:08] <marcoceppi> +1
[17:08] <SpamapS> Though I see a lot of really bad practice with that
[17:08] <SpamapS> people writing "this will only be applied at install time'
[17:09] <SpamapS> I am pondering making config-get in 'install' a warning in charm proof. configs should really only be applied in config-changed
[17:09] <SpamapS> otherwise they lose their magical powers to morph the service as needed
[17:09] <hazmat> SpamapS, well they could get defaults in install, you can set config at deploy
[17:10] <hazmat> its a fail though for charms that require config at deploy imo
[17:10] <SpamapS> hazmat: that doesn't make any sense though. It can be changed, so it should be handled *only* in config-changed.
[17:10] <SpamapS> even if it is the default
[17:10] <SpamapS> install is for stuff that *always* has to happen
[17:10] <hazmat> SpamapS, true and we do execute config-changed always before start
[17:10] <SpamapS> exactly
[17:10] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: wouldn't it eventually be handled in config-changed even during first install
[17:11] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: yes
[17:11] <marcoceppi> so, yeah
[17:11] <SpamapS> so anything that you do 'config-get' for in install, should be moved to config-changed
[17:11]  * marcoceppi goes back through his charms
[17:11] <SpamapS> I'm sure we've all made the mistake :)
[17:11] <imbrandon> SpamapS: tells SpamapS minus one year there is a json interface :)
[17:12] <imbrandon> :)
[17:13] <SpamapS> inorite
[17:13] <SpamapS> SpamapS minus one year had no config-get
[17:13] <imbrandon> hehe
[17:16] <robbiew> jcastro: going to send the shirts today...to our west coast warehouse, aka jono's house
[17:16] <jcastro> nod
[17:16] <jcastro> I'm bringing the micro right?
[17:16] <robbiew> yes
[17:16] <robbiew> I'm bringing another, but we need a murphy's law machine
[17:16] <robbiew> ;)
[17:17] <imbrandon> two if jcastro is responsable for one
[17:17]  * imbrandon dips his head back into the code
[17:22] <jcastro> imbrandon: you've published things on OSX right?
[17:22] <jcastro> imbrandon: maybe we should look at the OSX juju work?
[17:22] <imbrandon> yea
[17:22] <imbrandon> and yea
[17:23] <jcastro> https://juju.ubuntu.com/OSX
[17:23] <jcastro> any help here would be <3
[17:23] <imbrandon> ohh awesom the hardpart is done
[17:23] <imbrandon> sweet
[17:23] <imbrandon> yea i'll get this on wrap sometime in the next 24
[17:24] <jcastro> you have 10 days actually. :)
[17:24] <imbrandon> infact looking at this, i can get it down to one command
[17:24] <jcastro> but getting it all sorted before then would be wicked
[17:24] <imbrandon> jcastro: great cux my laptop only runs osx atm , that might change at usd
[17:24] <imbrandon> but lol
[17:24] <imbrandon> nah i'll be dual booting
[17:25] <imbrandon> but yea for sure in 10 days, i can get this down to one command i can allready tell
[17:25] <imbrandon> sweet
[17:25] <jcastro> imbrandon: if we need to host some stuff on officialish resources I can help you with that
[17:25] <jcastro> we _need_ to work awesome on OSX
[17:25] <imbrandon> nah we want it in the official brew trree
[17:25] <jcastro> oh ok, well, whatever you kids are into
[17:25] <imbrandon> that way a user littrally says
[17:25] <imbrandon> brew install juju and is done
[17:26] <jcastro> that would be nice
[17:26] <imbrandon> and no sef respecting devops dosent already have brew installed, but if not its just one more command
[17:26] <imbrandon> self*
[17:26] <imbrandon> but yea, i'm on it
[17:27] <imbrandon> oh wow these are old too, this is a few months out of date
[17:27] <imbrandon> sweet ok, /me is happy now
[17:28] <imbrandon> infact jcastro i may take you up on the hosting thing
[17:28] <imbrandon> the more i think about it i can also produce dmg installers
[17:29] <imbrandon> i forget i'm a "official" apple dev and can code sign packages :)
[17:29] <imbrandon> lol
[17:29] <jcastro> I will get you anything you need
[17:29] <imbrandon> sweet yea, it would only be the equiv of a .deb
[17:30] <imbrandon> but with 10.8 you they have to be code signed with an approved key
[17:30] <imbrandon> damn appple walled garden, but lickily i have such key for macos and ios for atleaste the next 10 months
[17:31] <imbrandon> ( $100 bux a year each , but i just renewed )
[17:32] <imbrandon> SpamapS: rember that ,its the "Seem exclusive but not Be exclusive", like a stripper :)
[17:33] <SpamapS> yeah, thats what new-charm is :)
[17:33] <SpamapS> I think anyway
[17:33] <imbrandon> :)
[17:33] <m_3> SpamapS: when you get a sec, I'd love to go over precise charms
[17:34] <SpamapS> m_3: any glaring problems?
[17:34] <m_3> SpamapS: nope, not at all
[17:35] <m_3> SpamapS: just leaning towards _not_ making any big changes through launchpad this week
[17:35] <imbrandon> jcastro: wont happen in 10 days but i can get it into the app store too ( approval process takes longer than 10 days )
[17:36] <m_3> SpamapS: just push and demo against cs:~charmers/precise/<blah> for what's needed
[17:36] <SpamapS> m_3: hrm
[17:36] <SpamapS> m_3: where's your sense of adventure?
[17:36] <m_3> SpamapS: I don't have a
[17:36] <m_3> ha!
[17:37] <m_3> don't have any specific problems with upgrading across the board other than lots of moving parts and the risk of breakage
[17:37] <m_3> demo faeries(sp?) and such
[17:38] <m_3> more charms "just worked" than I expected
[17:38] <jcastro> well that's a good sign at least.
[17:39] <m_3> jcastro: yeah, the process went really well... I'm just pretty skiddish when it comes to changes during big demo time
[17:40] <m_3> skittish?  hell, I need more coffee
[17:40] <imbrandon> switch to IV, works better i found
[17:40] <jcastro> well hey, if we want to flip the switch next week then that means we can promulgate the next three in the queue right? :)
[17:42] <SpamapS> m_3: the MaaS demo isn't using cs: is it?
[17:43] <SpamapS> robbiew: ^^ ?
[17:43] <m_3> imbrandon: I bet
[17:43] <m_3> SpamapS: it sounded like they were excited about showing the charmstore
[17:43] <robbiew> It would be nice, not a requirement
[17:43] <robbiew> tbh, we'll probably script the deployment anyway
[17:44] <jcastro> well, if we don't have to fix it now we have to fix it by release
[17:44] <jcastro> so we might as well fix it now
[17:44] <robbiew> and walk folks through it
[17:44] <m_3> SpamapS: in discussing it last week, it sounded like they were ok with cs:~charmers/precise/<blah> though
[17:44] <m_3> 'juju deploy cs:~charmers/precise/hadoop' -vs- 'juju deploy hadoop'
[17:44] <robbiew> I wouldn't worry about affecting the demo...hell, we might use local charms just to avoid any surprises
[17:45]  * robbiew goes to ship boxes...back l8r
[17:46] <m_3> SpamapS: ok, well it sounds like we should pull the lp switch to promote them to precise then
[17:55] <jcastro> m_3: charm school tomorrow for QA folks!
[17:57] <m_3> jcastro: yup... is there anything in particular that peeps wanna see?
[17:57] <jcastro> nope, it sounds more like it'll be a Q+A of their questions,
[17:57] <m_3> yeah... cool
[17:57] <m_3> jcastro: are there few enough to do it in a hangout?
[17:57] <m_3> jcastro: or should I spin up juju-classroom
[17:58] <jcastro> I asked for G+ but they want phone+IRC I guess
[17:58] <jcastro> so maybe it's more than 10
[17:59] <m_3> jcastro: don't see anything about phone... is there a conference thingy?
[18:00] <jcastro> not obvious to me, I'll follow up over email, you'll be CCed
[18:00] <m_3> jcastro: cool thanks
[18:01] <m_3> jcastro: re the openerp6.1 split... there can be as many openerp charms in the store as people want
[18:01] <jcastro> right I get that, what I am wondering is if it makes sense to do that
[18:01] <m_3> sorry, not in the store... int he repo
[18:02] <jcastro> oh right
[18:02] <m_3> in the store, we need to have one
[18:02] <m_3> imo
[18:02] <m_3> I'd like them to just play together and figure out how to combine them
[18:03] <m_3> but I understand that may be unrealistic
[18:03] <m_3> so either combine, or pick one to keep in the store and one to keep in a separate repo
[18:03] <m_3> jcastro: cool with you?
[18:04] <jcastro> sure
[18:04] <jcastro> I just didn't want them to accidentally duplicate work
[18:04] <m_3> right
[18:21] <jcastro> http://www.rackspace.com/blog/next-generation-rackspace-cloud-servers/
[18:21] <jcastro> anyone try juju on this yet?
[18:21] <jcastro> marcoceppi: new toys ^
[18:22] <marcoceppi> jcastro: I signed up for their beta through my company, never heard back from them.
[18:24] <avoine> jcastro: I need to setup awsome proxy first but I'll give it a try
[18:24] <avoine> marcoceppi: strange I got a reply the next day
[18:26] <jcastro> SpamapS: I'll hit lunch then we can G+? We can talk charm store too with m_3 if we want
[18:26] <SpamapS> jcastro: can we G+ first?
[18:27] <SpamapS> jcastro: I'm ready right now
[18:27] <jcastro> SURE
[18:27] <imbrandon> win 7
[18:27] <jcastro> fire it up
[18:27] <imbrandon> doh
[18:27] <SpamapS> Ok I'll initiate
[18:27] <jcastro> SpamapS: invite the others too if people want to hang out
[18:27] <SpamapS> btw, but 983313
[18:27] <jcastro> I am feeling very "light at end of the tunnel let's hug alot."
[18:27] <SpamapS> bug 983313
[18:27] <_mup_> Bug #983313: New Charm: puppet + puppetmaster <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/983313 >
[18:28] <SpamapS> jcastro: me too
[18:28] <SpamapS> but with mayonaise
[18:28] <imbrandon> i'll hang, if nothing else to listen
[18:29] <SpamapS> imbrandon: its mostly logistics around our demo Thursday.. right after the hugs
[18:29] <imbrandon> lol
[18:29] <imbrandon> k /me goes back to fixing the lxc
[18:39] <m_3> SpamapS: hey
[18:40] <m_3> SpamapS: looks like it worked... aliases are pointing at precise
[18:40] <SpamapS> oh they are?
[18:40] <m_3> SpamapS: yay, ok, so I'll start manual changes for ones that're not supposed to be there in precise
[18:44] <m_3> test out 'juju deploy <blah>' if you get a chance... here're the ones we expect to work http://ec2-23-20-58-1.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/
[18:44] <m_3> I'll do the same after fixing some links
[18:47] <m_3> SpamapS: perhaps we need another '--fix' round from charmtools?  /me looking to see if bzr keeps the actual branch or the alias
[18:52] <SpamapS> m_3: alias
[18:52] <SpamapS> m_3: or at least, it should
[18:53] <SpamapS>   parent branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/charms/subway/
[18:54] <imbrandon> jcastro: woot i now have the ability to blitz with 625 concurrent users ( standard free acct is 250 )
[18:54] <imbrandon> looks like others liked the video too :)
[18:55] <imbrandon> Brandon,
[18:55] <imbrandon> Cool screencast! We've added one-time +250 credits to your account so you free plan gets bumped to 500 concurrent users. Of course, with referral credits you can get this up to a max of 750!
[18:56] <imbrandon> from blitz.io in my email
[18:56] <imbrandon> :)
[18:56] <SpamapS> imbrandon: that scool
[18:56] <imbrandon> hellz yea :) /me is even more happy now
[18:56] <imbrandon> i already had 125 referal credits
[18:56] <imbrandon> so 625 now :)
[18:59] <SpamapS> Ok, folks PRECISE is the new dev focus for charms.
[18:59] <SpamapS> charm promulgate will now promulgate to precise
[19:00] <SpamapS> lp:charms/* is now precise
[19:00] <SpamapS> all branches have been copied forward
[19:00] <SpamapS> oneiric, may ye rest in stability.. aaaahhhmmeeen
[19:00] <jcastro> SpamapS: ok so on precise "juju deploy mysql" will do precise?
[19:01] <SpamapS> yep
[19:01] <SpamapS> its like we planned it this way :)
[19:03] <m_3> SpamapS: jcastro:technical difficulties... one sec
[19:03] <SpamapS> m_3: clearly :-P
[19:28] <koolhead17> SpamapS, are you not at ODS?
[19:29] <SpamapS> koolhead17: no, I go on Thursday
[19:29] <koolhead17> SpamapS, okey. We have Juju/Maas?openstack demo there?
[19:45] <SpamapS> niemeyer: an hour ago we copied all the oneiric charms to precise, but they're not showing up as cs:precise/xxxx ... what criteria does the charm store use to determine if it should import a charm?
[19:46] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Can you give me a sample of a charm that isn't showing but should?
[19:47] <niemeyer> SpamapS: If you copied all of them at once, it might be that it's still importing
[19:47] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I can't check that without help from someone with superpowers
[19:48] <matsubara> hello there. I'm trying to juju ssh to an running instance but I'm getting this error: Incompatible juju protocol versions (found 1, want 2). Is this a known error/bug? Is there a workaround?
[19:49] <matsubara> I'm using juju: 0.5+bzr531-1juju5~precise1 fwiw
[20:00] <m_3> f/win 3
[20:09] <m_3> SpamapS: so maybe metadata[maintainer]... and have promulgate create-or-add-to a "<charm>-maintainer" group.  Ok, I guess that's simpler than I was thinking
[20:10] <m_3> s/<charm>-maintainer/<charm>-maintainers/, but keep the metadata field singular so there's a single point-of-contact
[20:17] <m_3> I'm getting a... bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~charmers/oneiric/znc/trunk/" when trying to backport a charm fix to oneiric
[20:18] <m_3> SpamapS: who were you working with in lp with super powers?
[20:18] <m_3> (the precise lp:charms/znc pushed just fine though)
[20:25] <m_3> jcastro: hey, can you send me the final of the charmschool handout?  I wanna make sure the node charm is named / behaves the same... I've used two versions over time
[20:26] <jcastro> m_3: in your inbox!
[20:27] <m_3> jcastro: thankyouverymuch
[20:29] <m_3> It's an aubergine world :)
[20:34] <m_3> negronjl: hey man, please test out 3-node mongodb replsets on precise when you get a chance... it's front-and-center in the juju handout we'll be using at ODS and I haven't run it on anything but oneiric  (lp:charms/mongodb now points to lp:~charmers/charms/precise/mongodb/precise).
[20:35] <negronjl> m_3:  I'll do that sometime today
[20:35] <negronjl> m_3:  Let me finish some MaaS testing first
[20:35] <m_3> negronjl: thanks!
[20:35] <m_3> jcastro: crap... typo
[20:36] <m_3> jcastro: "juju add-unit -n20 hadoop hadoop-slavecluster" should read "juju add-unit -n20 hadoop-slavecluster"
[20:37] <m_3> jcastro: at least it's not really a big one at all
[20:37] <jcastro> didn't you review this like 3 times already?
[20:37] <m_3> I reviewed an early version... the google doc
[20:37] <jcastro> that was the final draft I sent you, I don't know what's actually on the paper at ODS right now
[20:38] <SpamapS> m_3: any losa in #launchpad-dev can do it. thedac helped me out
[20:38] <m_3> SpamapS: thanks
[20:38] <jcastro> m_3: jamespage reviewed it too
[20:39] <jcastro> m_3: I am hoping what I sent you is just wrong. :)
[20:39] <SpamapS> matsubara: re your problem, are you by any chance spawning oneiric machines with 'juju-origin: distro' ?
[20:39] <m_3> jcastro: no biggie... it's a small one.  We can catch it before the nxt batch gets printed up.  nothing to do before ods
[20:41] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I tried 'statusnet' and 'subway'
[20:41] <matsubara> SpamapS, this is my environment.yaml for that env: https://pastebin.canonical.com/64366/. answering your question, no, I spawned a precise machine and have no juju-origin: distro in my environment.yaml
[20:42] <matsubara> SpamapS, that environment was bootstrapped on 2012-02-29 and have been running since then
[20:43] <SpamapS> matsubara: ugh, you may have to re-bootstrap
[20:43] <matsubara> SpamapS, really? how about the services I already have running there? re-deploy them?
[20:43] <matsubara> well, to be fair, I only one service running on that env, it's the MAAS jenkins instance
[20:44] <matsubara> but even so I wasn't expecting that a juju version change would require me to re-deploy my services :-(
[20:44] <matsubara> should I file a bug about this?
[20:45] <m_3> SpamapS niemeyer: I just noticed that things are aliased to lp:~charmers/charms/precise/<charm>/precise and not /trunk... is that going to cause problems?
[20:45] <matsubara> SpamapS, I can get access to the ec2 instance by ssh directly to its public dns address. Would that help?
[20:46] <SpamapS> matsubara: I don't believe there's any migration code to morph your version 1 zk tree to version 2
[20:46] <SpamapS> m_3: yes thats likely the problem, DOH
[20:47] <SpamapS> matsubara: we won't do that once the release is stable.. but during dev re-factoring ZK had to be done unfortunately
[20:48] <jcastro> SpamapS: hah idea for charm school. How about towards the end we let people who set up their laptops deploy to the cloud right there
[20:48] <jcastro> SpamapS: like, it's one thing for you to be deploying to it, it'd be sweet if people from the audience can just deploy something
[20:48] <SpamapS> jcastro: yeah that should work
[20:49] <SpamapS>     if len(u) < 5 || u[1] != "charms" || u[4] != "trunk" || len(u[0]) == 0 || u[0][0] != '~' {
[20:50] <SpamapS>         return "", nil, fmt.Errorf("unwanted branch name: %s", name)
[20:50] <SpamapS> m_3: curses
[20:50] <SpamapS>     }
[20:50] <SpamapS> m_3: we'll need to have a special argument of some kind for branch-distro, or update the charm store.
[20:51] <SpamapS> silly launchpad.. why do pushes store in 'trunk' but branch-distro stores in $series? :-P
[20:51] <m_3> SpamapS: we could move them again to charms/precise/<charm>/trunk right?
[20:51] <SpamapS> I just re-promulgated statusnet as 'trunk'
[20:52] <SpamapS> waiting to see if it appears as cs:precise/statusnet
[20:52] <m_3> we really could do it manually if necessary... the hard part is the aliases
[20:53] <SpamapS> Well I'm waiting to see if manually fixes it
[20:53] <SpamapS> niemeyer: how often does the store pull from launchpad?
[20:54]  * m_3 didn't realize it was more than a pull-through directly to lp
[20:55] <m_3> good to know it caches... that'll help debugging stuff later
[20:57] <niemeyer> m_3: Yep, that won't work
[20:57] <niemeyer> m_3: "trunk" is the only name pulled from
[20:59] <SpamapS> looks like statusnet is there now
[20:59] <SpamapS> so rename/repromulgate should work
[21:08] <m_3> SpamapS: you wanna do that or shall I?
[21:09] <SpamapS> m_3: if it floats your boat, go for it!
[21:09] <SpamapS> m_3: should go in charm tools
[21:09] <m_3> the repromulgate is the problem for me
[21:10] <m_3> I'm concerned the aliases will just always push to .../precise branches now though
[21:10] <m_3> don't we have to have those changed somewhere?
[21:11] <m_3> hell, lemme just try it on one and see how far I get
[21:23] <SpamapS> m_3: promulgate changes the alias
[21:24] <m_3> SpamapS: it won't let me delete the precise branch
[21:24] <SpamapS> m_3: don't delete it!
[21:24] <SpamapS> m_3: push --remember, then promulgate
[21:30] <m_3> SpamapS: ok, that worked.... scripting it now
[21:31] <m_3> it looks like we'll have to go in and delete the /precise branches though
[21:31] <m_3> they're dangling atm
[21:31] <m_3> (for example, sbuild)
[21:32] <m_3> oh, wait... it shows it as stacked on /precise
[21:35] <m_3> SpamapS: ok, I need help... this is pooched
[21:36] <m_3> at the end of this process we'd have lp:charms aliases pointing to /trunk branches stacked on /precise branches that can't be removed
[21:37] <m_3> perhaps branch them locally, delete the /precise, and _then_ push/promulgate?  more dangerous
[22:08] <negronjl> m_3: having issues with juju/precise at the moment.  Once I bootstrap, I cannot connect.  Have you seen this before?
[22:09] <m_3> negronjl: yes... watch cli version -vs- 'juju-origin'
[22:10] <negronjl> cli version: 0.5+bzr531-1juju5~precise1
[22:10] <negronjl> juju-origin: ppa
[22:10] <negronjl> m_3: ^^
[22:11] <m_3> negronjl: it's possibly broken again recenly... lemme look at my versions
[22:16] <SpamapS> m_3: there should be no need to branch locally, and I don't mind having the old stacked-on branch there
[22:16] <SpamapS> m_3: really the stacked stuff is just an optimization
[22:16] <m_3> SpamapS: ok... we can keep danglers then
[22:16] <m_3> SpamapS: discussing this in #launchpad-dev atm
[22:16] <SpamapS> oh good
[22:21] <m_3> negronjl: creating a new environment... few more minuts to verify
[22:21] <negronjl> m_3: cool .. thx
[22:24] <imbrandon> thats one of the things i dont like about hg/bzr , branches in their own dir, why cant they use hardlinks like git :(
[22:25] <imbrandon> to me thats not really a branch, its a fork whe its 100% sep like that
[22:34]  * negronjl will be back in a few
[22:40] <_mup_> Bug #983530 was filed: charm store should publish all 'Mature' branches. <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/983530 >
[22:40] <SpamapS> niemeyer: ^^ an idea, I'd appreciate your feedback.
[22:41] <m_3> win 2
[22:42] <m_3> geez, I've been leaking irssi commands all day
[22:43] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Looking
[22:44] <jcastro> SpamapS: can you blogify your constraints email? It's too cool to not just be on the project list.
[22:44] <SpamapS> jcastro: will do
[22:45] <SpamapS> reminds me.. I need to upgrade my blog to precise
[22:45]  * SpamapS considers doing it with juju
[22:49] <m_3> ok, three more charm branches to fix...
[22:53] <SpamapS> jcastro: http://fewbar.com/2012/04/juju-constraints-unbinds-your-machines/
[23:05] <m_3> SpamapS: we need to not run branch-distro again...
[23:06] <m_3> it's taking pre-existing branches and stacking them on top of the copied over oneiric branches
[23:07] <m_3> I don't know a clean way to fix rabbitmq-server for example
[23:08] <SpamapS> m_3: eh?
[23:08] <m_3> there's merge history in lp:~charmers/charms/precise/rabbitmq-server/trunk
[23:08] <SpamapS> m_3: rabbit qas forked
[23:08] <SpamapS> was forked even
[23:09] <SpamapS> it shouldn't have been touched
[23:09] <m_3> so ideally we'd just promulgate that branch to lp:charms/rabbitmq-server
[23:09] <SpamapS> oh weird
[23:10] <m_3> but we just dropped lp:~charmers/charms/oneiric/precise/rabbitmq-server/trunk right into lp:~charmers/charms/precise/rabbitmq-server/precise
[23:10] <SpamapS> m_3: we probably just need to push --overwrite and then rename that one/delete the old one
[23:10] <m_3> so now the precise .../trunk and .../precise are stacked
[23:10] <SpamapS> m_3: yeah I see that
[23:10] <SpamapS> thats bad, mmkay
[23:10] <m_3> but trunk's not on the bottom, so we can't delete /precise
[23:10] <SpamapS> m_3: right so we have to --overwrite. I don't know if it will worked since it is stacked on tho
[23:11] <SpamapS> m_3: let me try
[23:11] <m_3> BTW, while looking at that... one extra part
[23:11] <SpamapS> my typing is godawful today ugh
[23:11] <m_3> I brought the .../precise branch up to 17 in hopes that I could do something from there
[23:12] <SpamapS> well then it looks fine, just rename
[23:13] <m_3> can't do that b/c there's already a branch of that name
[23:13] <SpamapS> rename that one too
[23:13] <m_3> ok
[23:13] <m_3> we're losing info on the pre-existing precise branch (merge history)
[23:14] <SpamapS> where?
[23:14] <m_3> comparing:
[23:14] <SpamapS> Oh the merge proposals?
[23:14] <m_3> https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/precise/rabbitmq-server/trunk
[23:14] <m_3> with:
[23:14] <SpamapS> such is life
[23:14] <m_3> https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/precise/rabbitmq-server/precise
[23:14] <m_3> right
[23:15] <m_3> ok with this particular case... but we wanna not have to do this next time
[23:15] <imbrandon> SpamapS: if you get a half sec my bash foo is failing me, and i want to do something similar in a charm but cant figure out the quoting ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/933268/    , no rush, just if you have a moment now or later
[23:15] <imbrandon> or m_3 :)
[23:17] <SpamapS> #!/usr/bin/env bash
[23:17] <SpamapS> really?
[23:17] <imbrandon> heh habbit
[23:17] <SpamapS> you have a platform that doesn't have bash in /bin?
[23:17] <SpamapS> :)
[23:17] <imbrandon> i do it for p[ython php etc
[23:17] <imbrandon> so its just habbit :)
[23:18] <SpamapS> imbrandon: whats the question?
[23:18] <imbrandon> see the last filename transforamtion
[23:18] <imbrandon> its all messed up, truncates the first half
[23:18] <imbrandon> the one with spaces
[23:18] <m_3> imbrandon: add a new line 'local crushed_filename=$(basename...)' then reference that variable below
[23:18] <imbrandon> i tried all diff combos of quotes and pullin hair out
[23:19] <imbrandon> hrm , not thought of that, kk
[23:19] <m_3> should reduce the num of "'s your having to deal with on any given line
[23:20] <imbrandon> heh yea
[23:20] <imbrandon> i hate bash for this reason alone, if i could get my head arround the spaces better i would love bash scripting probably more than anything else
[23:21] <m_3> imbrandon: still sucks for functions and scoping though imo
[23:21] <imbrandon> yea but as far as gen stuff its very very vers
[23:21] <imbrandon> and everywhere
[23:24] <SpamapS> bash scripts longer than 25 lines are just prototypes for perl/python/ruby
[23:24] <imbrandon> heh true
[23:24] <m_3> oh, that's impressive... we now have lp:charms/rabbitmq and lp:charms/rabbitmq-server
[23:24] <SpamapS> m_3: how did that happen?
[23:25] <imbrandon> i would say php,perl,ruby in that order but yea :)
[23:25] <m_3> when I renamed the old precise/rabbitmq-server/trunk to precise/rabbitmq-server/old-trunk
[23:25] <imbrandon> heh
[23:25] <SpamapS> imbrandon: you are the only one who wants to write CLI php.
[23:25] <m_3> it popped up on the list :)
[23:25] <imbrandon> haha no i'm not , i see it daily
[23:25] <SpamapS> imbrandon: people do it because they have to
[23:25]  * m_3 narrowly averted religio... uh... _language_ discussion.... whew!
[23:25] <imbrandon> heh :)
[23:26] <m_3> ok, so I kinda like the name rabbitmq better than rabbitmq-server :)
[23:26] <m_3> ... but ours is not to judge
[23:26] <imbrandon> i've come to embrace most people dont like php, thast ok though it keeps me employed and i'm not super anoyed by it
[23:27] <imbrandon> frak ok, i'm missing something here, i got the same eaxct results just using a var now
[23:28] <SpamapS> m_3: 1:1 package:charm is appealing
[23:28] <imbrandon> crushed_filename=$(basename "$file" .jpg)-crushed.jpg
[23:28] <imbrandon> still truncates anything before the last space ina filename
[23:29] <m_3> remove the ""
[23:29] <m_3> basename $file .jpg
[23:29] <imbrandon> pretty sure i trued that
[23:29] <imbrandon> lemme check
[23:29] <imbrandon> basename: extra operand `Sing'
[23:30] <m_3> basename \"$file\" .jpg
[23:30] <imbrandon> hrm
[23:30] <imbrandon> kk
[23:31] <imbrandon> nope, ok i;ll let you guys back at it, you were busy, i'll hit the adv bash guide
[23:31] <imbrandon> thanks though, dont wanna tie ya up for this
[23:31] <m_3> maybe two steps if necessary.... base=$(basename $file); crushed_filename=${base%%.jpg}-crushed.jpg
[23:31] <imbrandon> hrm, not sone that before
[23:31] <m_3> that should work _around_ spaces ok
[23:31] <imbrandon> ii'll have to look it up if it wokr
[23:34] <m_3> might have to replace basename with ${base/.*\//} (not exact syntax though... and you gotta make sure it's a greedy match)
[23:34] <imbrandon> ohhhh ok
[23:34] <imbrandon> i see
[23:34] <imbrandon> rockin and thats workin
[23:34] <imbrandon> ty
[23:35] <m_3> which one?
[23:35] <imbrandon> first
[23:35] <m_3> basename and then %% subst
[23:35] <m_3> cool
[23:35] <imbrandon> yup
[23:35] <imbrandon> ok foood time, ty very much
[23:36] <imbrandon> then to publish the newrelic charm
[23:36] <m_3> crap...
[23:39] <m_3> SpamapS: how can I remove an alias without deleting the branch?
[23:39] <imbrandon>   crushed_filename=${file%%.jpg}-crushed.jpg
[23:39] <imbrandon>   du -sh "$file"
[23:39] <imbrandon>   echo jpegtran -copy none -optimize -perfect "$file" -outfile $crushed_filename
[23:39] <imbrandon>   echo du -sh $crushed_filename
[23:39] <imbrandon> shit , sorry
[23:41] <SpamapS> m_3: I don't know.. probably need the API
[23:41] <SpamapS> m_3: why not just delete the branch?
[23:42] <m_3> adam's got other stuff stacked on top of it... I can't (and shouldn't) delete it
[23:42] <m_3> I'm reading through promulgate to see if I can find the right lplib stuff
[23:44] <m_3> I'm thinking that one's well and truly screwed... it got promulgated twice as two separate names
[23:44] <m_3> (not me!)
[23:44] <m_3> I'm sure it happened in the early days of promulgation
[23:45] <imbrandon> promstrangulte
[23:46]  * m_3 likes that word better
[23:47] <m_3> gonna grab food... bbiab
[23:52] <SpamapS> m_3: ok we'll figure out a way to resolve this later
[23:57] <SpamapS> hazmat: When you're around, we should change http://jujucharms.com/charms so it breaks up the series more. Perhaps even only show the current active series.


[01:03] <ahoneybun> would it be wrong to make a omgubuntu app? I know there is a webapp, but a app like a rss reader?
[01:03] <ahoneybun> I know there is a rss app as the core app but can you add rss feeds to it?
[01:26] <sergiusens> ahoneybun: yes you can
[06:52] <dholbach> good morning
[06:56] <nhaines> Good morning!
[06:56]  * nhaines took a nap around 6pm and just woke up!  -__-
[09:09] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Farm Animals Day! :-D
[09:30] <andrej_> Hi
[09:30] <andrej_> anybody knows answer to this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/531068/cant-run-ubuntu-core-app-from-ide-on-the-device ?
[09:31] <popey> zbenjamin: ^
[09:34] <zbenjamin> andrej_: don't you get the question if you want to override the installed app?
[09:35] <andrej_> zbenjamin: which question?
[09:36] <zbenjamin> andrej_: the most recent version of the SDK should open a dialog that asks you if you want to override the installed app, if you press Yes it continues
[09:36] <zbenjamin> andrej_: also in the runsettings you can set a checkbox so it always overrides
[09:38] <andrej_> zbenjamin: no. I already suspect that I'm not running the lates Ubuntu SDK
[09:38] <andrej_> zbenjamin: how do I verify that?
[09:38] <zbenjamin> andrej_: are you on trusty or on utopic?
[09:39] <andrej_> trusty
[09:39] <andrej_> zbenjamin: trusty
[09:39] <zbenjamin> andrej_: and you use the sdk ppa?
[09:39] <andrej_> yep
[09:39] <andrej_> zbenjamin: yep
[09:40] <vitimiti> Hi
[09:40] <zbenjamin> andrej_: dpkg -l | grep qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
[09:40] <andrej_> zbenjamin: today I removed Ubuntu SDK completely and installed again to make sure it's the latest one, but it probably still isn't
[09:40] <zbenjamin> andrej_: thats the most recent one 3.1.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1~0trusty1
[09:41] <zbenjamin> thats already pretty old, maybe the newest features did not yet land on trusty
[09:42] <zbenjamin> andrej_: if you want bleeding edge you can also use this ppa https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/tools-development
[09:42] <andrej_> zbenjamin: this is my output: ii  qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu                               3.1.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1~0trusty1              amd64        Ubuntu plugin for Qt Creator IDE ii  qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common                        3.1.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1~0trusty1              all          Common data files for the Ubuntu plugin for Qt Creator IDE
[09:43] <andrej_> zbenjamin: thanks, I'll try that
[09:44] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I don't like the idea of upgrading to an unstable OS
[09:44] <zbenjamin> andrej_: yeah thats why we have the ppa's
[09:44] <vitimiti> andrej_, it's not that unstable, I'm using it and I'm kind of disappointed that I can't find much to complain about
[09:44] <zbenjamin> andrej_: but the release to that ppas is manually so if there is heavy load on us its possible that not all updates land immediately
[09:45] <andrej_> zbenjamin: should I remove the old PPA?
[09:45] <zbenjamin> vitimiti: andrej_: we all use it for daily work
[09:45] <zbenjamin> andrej_: keep it
[09:45] <zbenjamin> andrej_: not sure if the devel ppa has all packages
[09:45] <vitimiti> Yeah, it's really stable for a pre release
[09:46] <andrej_> zbenjamin: in recent years  I settled to use only LTS releases. The others I call unstable :-P
[09:49] <andrej_> zbenjamin: so I need to add the PPA and run apt-get update? Or rempove ubuntu-sdk, add PPA and install?
[09:51] <zbenjamin> andrej_: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[09:51]  * zbenjamin usually runs apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:52] <vitimiti> Is there an option in the Ubuntu SDK to create a header with the license you want every time I create a file?
[09:58] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I added the PPA sucessfully, but apt-get update produces errors: W: Zlyhalo stiahnutie http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found  W: Zlyhalo stiahnutie http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-i386/Packages  404  Not Found
[10:10] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I started the updated ubuntu-sdk and got the dialog indeed. After clicking yes, I get:
[10:10] <andrej_> zbenjamin: Sdk-Launcher> Launcher PID: 3528 Sdk-Launcher> Uninstalling already installed package (--force-install) Sdk-Launcher> Uninstalling the application failed
[10:11] <zbenjamin> andrej_: hmm seems i need to hack some more on that part, as a workaround you could disable the uninstall step in /usr/share/qtcreator/ubuntu/scripts/qtc_device_applaunch.py i think
[10:15] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I have opened the file. Which lines should I comment out?
[10:16] <zbenjamin> andrej_: search for that string " Uninstalling already installed package "
[10:16] <zbenjamin> andrej_: there should be a call to pkcon right next to it
[10:23] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I commented out the 'else' branch and the application really seems to have installed, but it looks like this<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:24] <zbenjamin> andrej_: that is a packaging error
[10:24] <zbenjamin> andrej_: it cannot find your qml file
[10:24] <zbenjamin> andrej_: was that app already packaged for click? or do you work on it?
[10:27] <andrej_> I downloaded it right now by bzr branch and didn't touch any file
[10:27] <andrej_> zbenjamin: ^
[10:27] <zbenjamin> andrej_: which branch is that?
[10:28] <andrej_> I have run bzr branch lp:dropping-letters
[10:31] <zbenjamin> andrej_: seems its not really meant to be packaged with click
[10:32] <zbenjamin> andrej_: but you can change the exec line in the desktop file to qmlscene dropping-letters.qml
[10:33] <andrej_> zbenjamin: BTW I wouldn't mint running it on Desktop, but it tells me "module QtQuick version 2.3 is not installed"
[10:33] <andrej_> zbenjamin: BTW I wouldn't mind running it on Desktop, but it tells me "module QtQuick version 2.3 is not installed"
[10:33] <zbenjamin> andrej_: ok, so it only runs on utopic  ;)
[10:34] <zbenjamin> but try to change the desktop file
[10:46] <andrej_> zbenjamin: I changed the exec line and it works! But I sounds are not working. AFAIK this is supposed to be already working
[11:36] <gatox> seb128, hi.... i replied to this branch a couple of days ago: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/display-errors/+merge/235037 let me know if i need to do something else
[11:37] <seb128> gatox, I was waiting to reply to my "do we have a design for the strings used?" which you didn't
[11:38] <gatox> seb128, no as far as i know
[11:39] <seb128> we should?
[11:40] <gatox> seb128, we probably should...
[11:44] <gatox> seb128, i'm going to start testing the other 2 branches... i proposed them before actual testing on a device... because asking around, having CI to build the branch was the ony way to get the DEBs
[11:44] <seb128> gatox, k, did you look if you work conflicts with the changes kenvandine is working on?
[11:45] <gatox> seb128, no... i didn't look abouot that... i saw a branch from him landed the other day... i think there is no conflicts between mine and his branches, but i'll merge to be sure
[11:47] <seb128> gatox, well, seems like he landed his work, so I guess just make sure you rebase on trunk
[11:47] <gatox> seb128, yes
[12:16] <andrej_> zbenjamin: Maybe I should commit the dropping-letters.desktop with the altered line so that the app runs properly. Should I?
[13:02] <gatox> seb128, so... about the first branch and the strings thing... should we do somethign about that? or is that branch ok?
[13:02] <seb128> gatox, let me give it another look/test on the device
[13:04] <zbenjamin> andrej_: no idea, i don't know how its normally packaged and if its normally installed using a debian package
[13:04] <gatox> seb128, ack
[13:04] <gatox> seb128, i'm working on the second one and check why is not working
[13:04] <seb128> k
[13:05] <seb128> gatox, did you confirm what I wrote?
[13:05] <gatox> seb128, yes
[13:05] <seb128> good :)
[13:07] <mzanetti> jgdx: hey, here's another one: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/ubuntu-system-settings/drop-reboot-label-in-launcher-reset/+merge/236876
[13:17] <jgdx> mzanetti, it doesn't need to reboot anymore?
[13:20] <mardy> cwayne: hi! Do you have time to debug that ACL issue?
[13:26] <mzanetti> jgdx: not after the branch linked in the description has landed
[13:27] <jgdx> mzanetti, neat
[13:30] <gcollura> why is system settings app startup animation different? and how? :)
[13:34] <jgdx> gcollura, look at [1] and [2]. [1] https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg09996.html [2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1376242
[13:35] <gcollura> jgdx, is that a bug? I though it was a feature!
[13:35] <gcollura> ok sorry
[13:36] <jgdx> gcollura, it's a feature in Unity, but so is the new behaviour. :)
[13:37] <gcollura> jgdx, will normal app be able to use such feature?
[13:37] <jgdx> gcollura, I don't know, but I'll refer you to [1]
[13:38] <gcollura> jgdx, I'm reading it right now, I think the 3rd behavior will be used by almost all apps
[13:39] <gcollura> thanks for the answers btw :)
[13:39] <jgdx> gcollura, np
[13:48] <seb128> mardy, hey
[13:49] <seb128> mardy, just as a fyi I backported https://git.gnome.org/browse/evolution-data-server/commit/?h=evolution-data-server-3-12&id=e3b9159bf2c0cfc467e1c9bb8965d4f002ea0fe0 to utopic
[13:50] <popey> kgunn: looks like our libSDL2-2.0.so.0 was built against libmirclient7, but we're on libmirclient8 now. Should we rebuild SDL? (I want to use SDL but can't because 'libSDL2-2.0.so.0->dlopen("libmirclient.so.7", 2PTRACE_SINGLESTEP: Input/output error')
[13:52] <jgdx> t1mp, ping
[13:56] <mpt> Wellark, I was going to say, “we should have exactly the same Previous/Next buttons for navigating between APN fields as we do for browser forms” … But then I saw we have none for browser forms :-/
[13:59] <t1mp> jgdx: hello
[14:00] <mardy> seb128: thanks a lot for taking care of that!
[14:00] <seb128> mardy, yw! I'm also going to SRU to trusty once it's tested in utopic
[14:03] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/display-errors/+merge/235037 ? it looks fine to me but you spent more time than me in that code recently so you might have a better opinion on the changes
[14:04] <kenvandine> seb128, i'm sure it wouldn't merge cleanly now
[14:04] <seb128> kenvandine, it does!
[14:04] <seb128> just tried
[14:04] <kenvandine> wow
[14:04] <seb128> indeed
[14:04] <kenvandine> i'm amazed :)
[14:04] <seb128> I would have though it wouldn't either
[14:04] <seb128> same here!
[14:05] <seb128> let me trigger a CI build retry
[14:05] <seb128> so we get a deb rebased on trunk
[14:05] <kenvandine> thx
[14:05] <seb128> yw
[14:06] <jgdx> t1mp, can you take a look at the email I sent you?
[14:06] <seb128> gatox, do you have an hint on how to test the check-hash change?
[14:06] <jgdx> t1mp, I'm running an email notification irc service
[14:07] <gatox> seb128,  you can ask pindonga to set an incorrect hash in one of the clicks according to alecuu
[14:07] <t1mp> jgdx: I don't see the e-mail. Where did you send it? to a mailing list?
[14:07] <t1mp> what's the subject?
[14:07] <seb128> gatox, did anyone do that/tried the buggy case?
[14:08] <gatox> seb128, alecuu did it for the scope... i haven't tested this yet... i was waiting it to build.. and now i'm working on the accounts branch to try to understand the bug.... i'll test that one after this one
[14:08] <pindonga> gatox, as I told alecu back then modifying the server data for a test is not something I'm keen on doing... can't you just provide fake data for the test?
[14:08] <seb128> gatox, ok, thanks, looks fine in principle to me but it would still be good to be able to test it
[14:09] <gatox> pindonga, ah ok... i didn't know that... alecu told me that i could request that... sorry
[14:10] <gatox> seb128, let me check if i can fake the server somehow in the phone to fake the test and avoid modifying stuff in the server....
[14:10] <seb128> gatox, well, one thing at time, debug the add account one first
[14:10] <alecu> pindonga: are we talking about staging? I thought you did modify the hashes on some of the apps in staging
[14:10] <gatox> seb128, yes, sure... i will finish with this branch first
[14:11] <pindonga> alecu, I did that once as an example and to get you unblocked... I'm not keen on doing that every time a test is needed
[14:11] <pindonga> the phone should be able to provide fake data for tests
[14:12] <alecu> pindonga: ok, that sounds reasonable: we should not make tests depend on staging
[14:12] <alecu> gatox: ^
[14:12] <pindonga> thx alecu
[14:13] <alecu> gatox: seb128: btw, do you guys have a testplan for the updates part of system settings? Are you adding this test case to that test plan?
[14:14] <alecu> gatox: seb128: actually, I remember adding such a test for a bug I fixed there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/ubuntu-system-settings
[14:14] <kgunn> popey: talk to bschaeffer
[14:15] <popey> kgunn: will do
[14:15] <alecu> gatox: seb128: I think that it would be good to add info on how to test the above bug to that test plan
[14:15] <cwayne> mardy: sure thing
[14:15] <kenvandine> gatox, i was poking around a bit trying to figure out why install all/pause all causes some state issues and i have a hunch that it sometimes triggers duplicate downloads
[14:17] <kenvandine> gatox, but i'm not sure why... i added some debugging and found that bindDownload sometimes gets called more than once for the same package
[14:17] <kenvandine> but not reliably
[14:17] <gatox> kenvandine, mmmm that's weird
[14:18] <mardy> cwayne: so, are these scopes using the requestAccess API? (the one from Ubuntu.OnlineAccounts.Client)?
[14:18] <kenvandine> yeah, and i can't really see why that would happen
[14:18] <cwayne> mardy: mine are using whatever's in accounts-polld/accounts
[14:18] <kenvandine> well, startService() gets called more than once, which could be improvied
[14:18] <kenvandine> but if all the properties aren't set, it doesn't create the download
[14:19] <kenvandine> gatox, i've only triggered that by twiddling with installAll/pauseAll
[14:19] <kenvandine> not individual pause/resule
[14:19] <kenvandine> resume
[14:20] <kenvandine> gatox, do you think that could be caused by something in udm?
[14:20] <kenvandine> like if udm retries a download, it could create a new one?
[14:20] <kenvandine> that would cause bindDownload to be called
[14:20] <kenvandine> but i don't really know anything about udm
[14:21] <gatox> kenvandine, mmm we should ask mandel, but i don't think so
[14:21] <kenvandine> i was thinking if there was some failure in the download that wasn't recoverable, maybe it was really robust and would recreate it
[14:21] <kenvandine> dunno :)
[14:22] <mardy> cwayne: accounts-polld is an unconfined app, so it doesn't need to request access (and I've checked the code, and verified that it doesn't)
[14:23] <cwayne> mardy: well im just using the code from accounts-polld in my go scope
[14:23] <cwayne> mardy: but it doesn't change anything if i make my app unconfined either
[14:23] <sergiusens> plars and fginther how are you calling ubuntu-device-flash from jenkins?
[14:24] <ogra_> sergiusens, should be visible in the console log
[14:24] <gatox> kenvandine, i think mandel is on vacations right now
[14:24] <sergiusens> 2 weeks
[14:25] <mardy> cwayne: I'm a bit ignorant about how scopes work... I see that the code to request access is in unity-scopes-shell
[14:25] <plars> sergiusens: we have scripts in lp:ubuntu-test-cases/touch that handle calling all the tools necessary to set up the phones and make them ready for testing udf + phablet-config + phablet-network + phablet-click-test-setup, etc
[14:25] <mardy> cwayne: does it mean that unity-scopes-shell could request access on behalf of your scope?
[14:25] <cwayne> mardy: so i don't use that yet (since it doesn't integrate with the go bindings)
[14:26] <cwayne> mardy: so in the future, hopefully that's how it will work, but for now its my scope itself requesting acccess
[14:26] <sergiusens> plars: thanks, that works for me; also, if I add a deprecation warning, how are you going to capture that automatically?
[14:26] <sergiusens> plars: I can also "format" the deprecation warning with dates and such for you to grab easily
[14:26] <mardy> cwayne: can you use C++ from go?
[14:27] <sergiusens> plars: that's going back to ev's comment about deprecation warnings;
[14:27] <mardy> s/use/call/
[14:27] <sergiusens> mardy: yes you can
[14:27] <plars> sergiusens: I'd have to know what to look for to capture it automatically, what are you deprecating?
[14:27] <dednick> fginther: hey. know what's going on with the unity8 qmltest VMs?
[14:27] <sergiusens> plars: well I'm changing u-d-f to have a core and touch subcommand (deprecating the non positional command)
[14:28] <fginther> dednick, the connection to the VM host is broken, we're in the process of shutting down jenknis for a restart
[14:28] <mardy> cwayne: if you can, then the code that you need is those few linews starting at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity-scopes-shell/trunk/view/head:/src/Unity/scope.cpp#L1259
[14:28] <dednick> fginther: ok. thanks
[14:28] <sergiusens> plars: also adding a "query" subcommand to add --list-images, --show-image, --list-channels
[14:28] <ogra_> sergiusens, cant you just default to touch ?
[14:28] <sergiusens> yes, but I'm deprecating that
[14:29] <cwayne> mardy: can't do that from go yet (at least no idea how I would)
[14:29] <mardy> sergiusens: do you have some examples? ^
[14:30] <robotfuel> rsalveti: ping, pulse audio started crashing on today's phone image https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1366819 are you the right person to assign this bug to? It looks like no changes have been made to pa since your changes on sept 3rd
[14:30] <sergiusens> mardy: cwayne I had some in account-polld and calling Qt; one sec
[14:30] <sergiusens> mardy: cwayne you need to C wrap it basically
[14:30] <plars> sergiusens: it's hard to imagine not noticing given the number of people looking at these results, but I'll look into whether we can add some log scraper that looks for the string you use for deprecation warnings
[14:30] <mardy> cwayne: alternatively, you could directly use the DBus interface (it's just a matter of one method call), but please remember that that's a temporary solution and we offer no stability guarantees for that
[14:31]  * sergiusens wishes dbus apis were stable
[14:31] <sergiusens> solve a whole lot of "recompile" issues :-)
[14:31] <cwayne> mardy: i don't get why I have to change anything.. it worked yesterday, shouldn't it at least work unconfined?
[14:32] <sergiusens> mardy: cwayne http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-push-hackers/account-polld/trunk/view/head:/qtcontact/
[14:33] <sergiusens> plars: right, but the goal was no humans involved :-P
[14:33] <mardy> cwayne: if your apparmor is indeed "unconfined", then it should work, yes
[14:33] <cwayne> mardy: it is, but it doesn't work :/
[14:34] <mardy> cwayne: can you share the syslog (remember that logging must be enabled in /etc/signond.conf)?
[14:34] <cwayne> but it works if i remove signon-apparmor-extension
[14:34]  * jdstrand notes unconfined means different things to different people
[14:34] <plars> sergiusens: I just mean this shouldn't block you. We'll sort out some way of automatically grepping for the deprecation warning in the future.
[14:34] <sergiusens> cwayne: you can take it to the train team and the will revert; whoever introduces change needs to make sure all the peices work
[14:35] <sergiusens> pieces
[14:35] <jdstrand> there is the "unconfined" profile which uses the "unconfined" label. this is what unity8 runs as (for example)
[14:35] <plars> sergiusens: even in the presence of a way to detect this automatically though, it's nice for you to tell us it's coming :)
[14:35] <sergiusens> plars: oh, of course not, was just thinking about it ;-)
[14:35] <sergiusens> plars: when I have it under review I will ask you to look anyways :-)
[14:36] <jdstrand> then there are apps that use the unconfined template. they have an effectually unconfined policy, but the profile label is still the app id (eg, terminal, filemanager, aggregating scopes, etc)
[14:36] <jdstrand> mardy, cwayne: ^
[14:36] <plars> sergiusens: I think the more important part for us is that we have a way back - it's nice to have a deprecation path for CLIs and APIs rather than just immediately switching over
[14:36] <mardy> cwayne, jdstrand: so, OA only checks the profile label
[14:36] <jdstrand> right
[14:37] <plars> sergiusens: that way we avoid the chaos of having a flag day where everybody has to land everything in lock-step
[14:37] <cwayne> mardy: okay, so at least that explains why it doesn't work if i make it 'unconfined'
[14:37] <sergiusens> plars: I'm all for backwards compat
[14:37] <Wellark> mpt: :(
[14:37] <Wellark> mpt: our OSK needs some love
[14:37] <sergiusens> plars: no flag days allowed in my book :)
[14:37] <jdstrand> mardy: I figured you were talking about the "unconfined" label, but I suspected cwayne was perhaps talking about the unconfined template
[14:37] <cwayne> I was, sorry :)
[14:38]  * jdstrand could be wrong-- just wanted to make sure people were talking about the same thing
[14:38] <jdstrand> cwayne: no need to be sorry, it happened to be an implementation detial I knew about and thought I'd make sure you guys were talking about the same thing
[14:42] <mardy> cwayne: so, basically it was working before because without that package all accesses are granted
[14:57] <dobey> mardy: you are adding the "fix" i suggested, right? and then we can remove that later when all the related issues get fixed?
[14:58] <cwayne> mardy: right, so for the 'real' fix, I guess i'd need the go bindings to do the right thing now...
[14:59] <rsalveti> robotfuel: that's not the same bug
[14:59] <rsalveti> robotfuel: and it's already fixed in the archive, should show up in the next image
[15:00] <robotfuel> rsalveti: do you have a link to the fix, I need it for a report
[15:00] <vitimiti> Hi
[15:01] <rsalveti> robotfuel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-touch-session/0.108+14.10.20140929-0ubuntu2
[15:01] <robotfuel> rsalveti: thanks
[15:01] <rsalveti> robotfuel: problem is that only half of the landing went to the archive
[15:08] <dbarth> ogra_: hiya; seeking oxide-qt deperately ;) is 1.2.4 targeted for the next rtm image today?
[15:36] <mpt> What does it mean when phablet-screenshot says “* daemon started successfully *” and then just sits there doing nothing?
[15:36] <popey> phone probably isn't responding to adb commands
[15:36] <popey> so its probably off or developer mode isn't on
[15:37] <mpt> Ah, Developer Mode was off, thanks
[15:37] <mpt> (weird, it was on yesterday)
[15:37] <ogra_> did you re-flash inbetween ?
[15:38] <ogra_> (or change your password/PIN
[15:38] <ogra_> )
[15:38] <mpt> I don’t remember it, but I guess I must have :-]
[15:38] <ogra_> either would unset it
[15:51] <gcollura> does click-buddy support out-of-source builds? I don't want all the cmake compilation files in my source directory
[16:29] <gcollura> ogra_, do you know why source files are compiled in their directory and not in a separated directory? (eg tmp/somerandomdir)
[16:30] <gcollura> in click-buddy script
[16:34] <ogra_> gcollura, nope, i dont know anything about click-buddy
[16:35] <ogra_> not sure who wrote it ... probably sergiusens knows
[16:35] <popey> gcollura: if you build the click in the sdk (qtc) you get a separate build folder
[16:39] <mterry> ted, will indicators detect locked vs not?  Or should we ask for a different profile when a password is needed vs swipe?
[16:45] <sergiusens> gcollura: I wrote it, but it needs some much needed attention to refactor
[16:47] <sergiusens> gcollura: there were issues with the click cmd when doing stuff out of source about a year ago when I decided to go that path
[16:47] <sergiusens> gcollura: with the bind mounts
[17:19] <MichaelTunnell> what is the best way to demo an ubuntu touch app
[17:19] <MichaelTunnell> on the desktop that is
[17:27] <bfiller> mterry: elopio and I looking at this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1368343
[17:27] <bfiller> mterry: do you start maliit when the wizard starts or only on demand?
[17:29] <bfiller> elopio: there is an env you can set in /usr/share/upstart/sessions/maliit-server.conf to at least get more debug.. let me find that
[17:33] <bfiller> elopio: try adding this "env MALIIT_DEBUG=true" to the /usr/share/upstart/sessions/maliit-server.conf file and see if we get more debug
[17:37] <bfiller> elopio: if that doesn't work, you can try this 1) reboot so the wizard appears 2) before maliit-server is started do this from a terminal a) ulimit -c unlimited b) export MALIIT_DEBUG=true c) start maliit-server
[17:38] <bfiller> elopio: then if it crashes you should have a core file in the directory you started it from and more debug
[17:38] <bfiller> elopio: I can do all this later but if you have time now and don't mind trying that's helpful. no problems if not
[17:38] <elopio> bfiller: I'm on it.
[17:39] <bfiller> elopio: thanks
[17:42] <elopio> bfiller: the only new thing I see on this new log is
[17:42] <elopio> WARNING: file:///usr/share/maliit/plugins/com/ubuntu/keys/Magnifier.qml:50:5: QML BorderImage: Possible anchor loop detected on centerIn.
[17:42] <elopio> WARNING: file:///usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/Icon10.qml:34:5: QML Image: Failed to get image from provider<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:42] <elopio> let me see with your second method.
[17:49] <t1mp> argh
[17:49] <t1mp> elopio: which uitk version do you have?
[17:50] <t1mp> elopio: there was a bug with that error: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1371509
[17:51] <t1mp> uhm
[17:51] <t1mp>  QML Image: Failed to get
[17:51] <t1mp>                    image from provider<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:51] <t1mp> uhm
[17:51] <elopio> t1mp: this is latest utopic proposed on mako.
[17:51] <t1mp> is iconName<EMAIL_ADDRESS>being used instead of iconSource?
[17:51] <elopio> 1.1.1262+14.10.20140922.2-0ubuntu1 0
[17:52] <t1mp> image://theme/ is prefixed internally if iconName is used, not for urls (iconSource)
[17:52] <taiebot> I guys i still cannot receive text message from my girlfriend. Is there a limit of messages that i am allowed to store on the phone?  In the mean time i am downgrading to see if it is happening on 260.  I have been using UT as my main phone for over a year now and my inbox could be full ?
[17:52] <gcollura> sergiusens, out of source dir build seems to work now, I'll do some further tests and ask a MR if necessary
[17:53] <gcollura> popey, I don't use qtc as IDE, that's why I find click-buddy useful :)
[17:56] <dobey> taiebot: well, the limit is "until your disk is full" afaik
[17:56] <cwayne> gcollura: how'd you get out of source dir build working?
[17:56] <dobey> taiebot: is your disk full?
[17:56]  * t1mp off
[17:57] <taiebot> dobey: no not at all. 7.1G free
[17:58] <dobey> taiebot: i doubt that's the issue then, but you can of course delete some old messages and see.
[17:59] <gcollura> cwayne, I removed the cd "$SOURCE" and added $SOURCE in click chroot run cmake
[17:59] <gcollura> it *seems* to work
[17:59] <taiebot> dobey: downgrading to r260 will see if i get the 6 or seven messages that she sent me in the last two days.
[18:00] <gcollura> as I said it need further testing, so far I've successfully compiled an app and installed in on my device (ofc it works as expected)
[18:00] <gcollura> it*
[18:02] <elopio> bfiller: no more information exporting the var.
[18:04] <bfiller> elopio: ah I know why, gave you the wrong instructions
[18:05] <bfiller> elopio: 1) reboot so the wizard appears 2) before maliit-server is started do this from a terminal a) ulimit -c unlimited b) export MALIIT_DEBUG=true c) manually run maliit-server by typing "maliit-server"
[18:08] <elopio> bfiller: something's wrong with that too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8480735/
[18:09] <elopio> I did get the core file from the previous run.
[18:09] <elopio> should I upload that to the bug?
[18:09] <bfiller> elopio: hmn, is the wizard up at this point?
[18:09] <elopio> bfiller: it is, on the welcome screen.
[18:09] <cwayne> click-review seems broken..
[18:09] <bfiller> elopio: ok maybe this method won't work because the shell is not actually started
[18:10] <bfiller> elopio: yes please upload the previous core file to the bug and I'll have to dig deeper
[18:26] <nhaines> Hey, does the core music app keep running in the background?  I thought it was being converted to media-hub and the subject to the lifecycle management.
[18:28] <ahayzen> nhaines, we use media-hub to keep running the music
[18:29] <ahayzen> nhaines, however we have a lifecycle exception which means that the app keeps running so it can calculate the next track when needed
[18:29] <ahayzen> nhaines, the long term goal is to get rid of that
[18:30] <nhaines> ahayzen: thanks.  I thought it'd already been accomplished.  I guess there were queuing problems?  :)
[18:30] <ahayzen> nhaines, we need background-playlists support in media-hub to totally remove the lifecycle exception
[18:30] <ahayzen> nhaines, otherwise everything else is sorted
[18:33] <nhaines> That's what I meant.
[18:34] <nhaines> Haven't tried it extensively in 14.09/r2, but liked what I saw.
[18:59] <kenvandine> seb128, it's remarkably difficult to use my phone in french... much easier using pt_BR :)
[19:00] <seb128> kenvandine, c'est faux !
[19:01] <mardy> dobey, cwayne: yes (to both your questions :-) )
[19:03] <taiebot> I have downgraded. I am only receiving texts from myself. I think its time to say goodbye to my phone provider.
[19:04] <cwayne> mardy: i don't remember what my question was :)
[19:10] <mardy> 17:58 < cwayne> mardy: right, so for the 'real' fix, I guess i'd need the go bindings to do the right thing now...
[19:15] <cwayne> ah, okay :)
[19:18] <vitimiti> Hi
[19:25] <ted> mterry, I wasn't detecting locked, I thought that's what the messages setting was for. i.e. you want data on the greeter or not.
[19:26] <ted> mterry, So it could be locked and you could still reply if you so wanted.
[19:26] <dobey> taiebot: are you in the US?
[19:26] <mterry> ted, I figured that swipe setting means that phone_greeter mode is same as phone.  Locked settings means they are different but you could expose different things based on those settings.  But maybe design should confirm thtat
[19:28] <ted> mterry, Hmm, okay. I explained it in the indicators call today and no one in design corrected me :-)
[19:28] <ted> mterry, That's agreeing, right? ;-)
[19:28] <taiebot> dobey: no i am in the UK
[19:29] <mterry> ted, heh, OK. It's all easy enough to change if they complain.  I'm still trying to get the switching-profile experience to be seamless -- it is currently taking a couple seconds to repopulate menu content and I'm trying to figure out where that is happening so I can cache old content.  The u8 code is all models wrapped in models
[19:30] <taiebot> dobey: i think its my phone provider i tested with two different phones on different network. I think i can receive text from myself because it is on the same network.
[19:30] <dobey> taiebot: ah ok. i don't know what to suggest for a provider over there
[19:30] <dobey> maybe orange?
[19:31] <ted> mterry, Cool, besides reviews I think my branches are ready. Got the system settings patch in there too.
[19:31] <vitimiti> I had Orange and my phone periodically turned off by itself. As soon as I changed that stopped happening.  Not suggesting anything
[19:31] <dobey> and not sure if any of the other brits are still around
[19:31] <vitimiti> her phone*
[19:32] <mterry> ted, is that indicator-transfer typo fixed?  :)
[19:36] <ted> mterry, In that silo, yes.
[19:36] <NikTh> Hello everyone
[19:36] <mterry> ted, yay  :)  it's an eyesore while testing  :)
[19:37] <mterry> ted, sorry my side is taking so long -- I didn't plan on this work, I thought u8 was done for you
[19:37] <ted> mterry, Heh
[19:37] <NikTh> What is the procedure for someone to follow in order to produce a layout for the Ubuntu Touch keyboard ?
[19:37] <NikTh> From where someone can begin ? I'm asking for an idea, a link, something ?
[19:37] <ted> mterry, Sorry about that, I thought we were thinking the same way about it.
[19:37] <NikTh> el_GR layout is missing and some of our members at Greek Ubuntu community are interested to help. Thanks
[19:37] <mterry> ted, yeah no worries just crossed wires
[19:42] <dobey> NikTh: lp:ubuntu-keyboard is the source and where the layouts are. see under plugins/ there
[19:43] <NikTh> dobey: Great. Thanks for guidance.
[19:45] <nhaines> Terminal needs a hacker keyboard layout.  :)
[19:46] <NikTh> dobey: I think I've found it http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/ubuntu-keyboard/trunk/files/head:/plugins/ :-)
[19:51] <dobey> NikTh: yes
[19:51] <dobey> nhaines: phones need built-in Happy Hacker kebyoards.
[19:51] <nhaines> dobey: I agree.  :)
[19:52] <dobey> also am disappointed that apparently nobody makes a usb thumb keyboard for the N5
[19:52] <dobey> or apparently any other phones any more
[19:53] <nhaines> T-Mobile G1 had the best keyboard ever.  The HTC G2's wasn't as nice.  And that was the end of that.
[19:55] <dobey> nah
[19:55] <dobey> Prē did ;)
[20:00] <gcollura> what's the command to start apps from the terminal?
[20:01] <dobey> gcollura: ubuntu-app-launch $packagename_$appname_$version
[20:01] <gcollura> thanks dobey
[20:04] <gcollura> dobey, do you know why icons are not loaded if the app has been launched with that command?
[20:09] <dobey> gcollura: on the launcher you mean? in unity8? probably a bug if so
[21:03] <Hardtail> Hi guys, my ASUS T100 just arrived in the mail. I am powering it up as we speak. It has Win8 on it, is it possible for me to load UBuntu?
[21:04] <nhaines> If it has Windows 8 and not Windows RT, and if it has a standard BIOS or UEFI, then you should be able to, if ASUS didn't restrict it.  You'll have to find that out from the manufacturer.
[21:06] <Hardtail> nhaines it has Windows 8.1 on it, can I get some of that information from the BIOS? Or do I actually have to contact ASUS?
[21:08] <nhaines> Hardtail: if it's just a PC, then it's just a PC.  Try to boot from a USB stick and see if it works.  :)
[21:08] <Hardtail> nhaines, ok thanks mate. I think it is just a pc in tablet form :D thanks again!
[21:09] <nhaines> Yup, in that case enjoy.  :D
[21:09] <Hardtail> awesome :D
[21:30] <ted> rsalveti, So do you know how SilentMode is supposed to work?
[21:30] <ted> rsalveti, I see the setting, but it seems no one is listening to it?
[22:30] <nik90> jdstrand: hey, would it be possible to backport click-reviewers-tool with the fix to bug 1371180 to trusty pls
[22:33] <iorweth> Hi, is it possible to connect to wifi-networks with PEAP encryption?
[23:15] <kurt_> when i add a cpp to my project why does it not show up in the file tree......does my app see it during the build?
[23:35] <kurt_> i have my phone in developer mode and the sdk sees it but says there is no network connection, even with a working sim card in and wifi connection.
[23:57] <nith1210> Today's update fixed orientation switching for me. It'd be nice if dragging the background of the pull down menu (when not corresponding with an item) would allow one to pull it back up again.
[23:58] <nith1210> You can open "transfers" for example, really easily with a small finger motion but closing it requires a much larger physical action even if there is no info in that unity pull down area


[08:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[08:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4498 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[08:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4498 Generating diffs
[09:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Generating diffs
[09:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4498 Pending binary packages
[09:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4498 Successfully built
[09:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Successfully built
[12:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- oSoMoN, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3211 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (bionic/libappindicator). Ready to build (/:, bionic/Failed, bionic/cache., bionic/local, bionic/lp:libappindicator, bionic/lp:libindicator, bionic/to, bionic/update). Successfully built (bionic/libindicator)
[12:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- oSoMoN, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3211 Needs rebuild due to new commits (bionic/libappindicator). Ready to build (/:, bionic/Failed, bionic/cache., bionic/local, bionic/lp:libappindicator, bionic/lp:libindicator, bionic/to, bionic/update). Successfully built (bionic/libindicator)
[15:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4486 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[17:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4442 Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:bamf cache., focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:bamf, focal/to, focal/update). Successfully built (focal/bamf)
[17:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2162 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:aethercast cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/isc-dhcp, xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/isc-dhcp, zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/aethercast)
[17:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2393 Failed to build (xenial/aethercast). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:aethercast cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2162 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/isc-dhcp, xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/isc-dhcp, zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/aethercast)
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4442 Ready to build (/:, focal/Failed, focal/cache., focal/local, focal/lp:bamf, focal/to, focal/update). Successfully built (focal/bamf)
[18:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2393 Failed to build (xenial/aethercast). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/aethercast). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:aethercast, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:aethercast, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[19:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Pending binary packages
[20:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Successfully built
[21:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4499 Publishing packages
[21:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4499 Publish failed: Diff missing


[01:50] <trinikrono> hello guys, i am making a google hangout for my loco team tonight is anyone interested in coming


[01:31] <teward[m]> Simon Quigley yeah if you had coredev and just recently dropped off any DMB member has the ability to JFDI and reinstate
[01:31] <teward[m]> Simon Quigley now, this said.  you need to fine tune your mail filters :P
[03:35] <guiverc> Lubuntu Manual icon on desktop (live session) still isn't doing anything but give error for me.. It's been mentioned before, is there a bug for it?
[03:51] <arraybolt3> guiverc: I'm not aware of a bug for it.
[03:53] <guiverc> thanks arraybolt3 , I may have just mentioned it before (often do before filing, often don't file too)
[07:47] <guiverc> ^ 'lubuntu manual' desktop link works on installed systems, plus if an additional user is added to a live session it'll work (on additional user) there too; so at worst a release doc mention maybe required
 If you wait 2 or 3 minutes after booting the Manual link works - connected to the Fiirefox bug in Live CD (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> ^ 'lubuntu manual' desktop link works on installed systems, plus if an additional user is added to a live session it'll work (on additional user) there too; so at worst a release doc mention maybe required)
[08:40] <guiverc> ack... and trying again.. I can confirm it works with uptime of 5hrs 14mins, so it continues to work :)
[08:40] <guiverc> thanks @Leokolb.. I'd have thought I'd have tried it after that time, but I don't recall
 Wow! :) (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> ack... and trying again.. I can confirm it works with uptime of 5hrs 14mins, so it continues to work :))
[08:42] <guiverc> I suspect that should be mentioned in the release notes though (not specific time period, just a delay after staring before it'll work maybe)
[08:43]  * guiverc on occasion uses a live session as a machine OS
 Agree @guiverc should be mentioned ..
 The bug @guiverc is 1991011
[08:47] <guiverc> thanks @Leoolb, greatly appreciated !
[08:48] <guiverc> yeah I remember that one.. I noted Ubuntu have ref. to release notes too :)
[08:56] <guiverc> noted in kinetic issue tracker
 on faster machines the wait is sometimes only 10 or 15 seconds... (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> noted in kinetic issue tracker)
[09:02] <guiverc> we could mention the speed of machine too... but in my experience it's longer than 3 mins on c2d type hardware  (at least it sure feels that way)
 I don´t think we should mention the speed (give no false promises etc) (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> we could mention the speed of machine too... but in my experience it's longer than 3 mins on c2d type hardware  (at least it sure feels that way))
[09:19] <guiverc> specifically no, I was thinking just a warning that 'some older hardware may take a little longer to be ready than newer hardware'  (ie. vague)
 Ah..yes @guiverc agree
 "[telegram] <Leokolb> If you wait..." <- OH this bug is just a race condition, I could tell you what's causing it
[13:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Ah, it's that thing with the livecd-rootfs, isn't it?
[13:45] <tsimonq2> Well, snaps do take a minute to preseed when the image is first booted.
[13:46] <tsimonq2> I'm on paid time so I'll save you from the entire explanation - but the short of it is, snapd isn't done installing the snaps before Firefox is launched, that's what it is
[13:46] <tsimonq2> (And you can't install snaps in a chroot, so that's their workaround, use preseeding which basically formats a YAML and downloads the files)
[13:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, I remember that bug. Here's hoping they figure out how to fix it.
[13:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's already fixed, but just like everything else in the release queue, nothing has been worked on.
[13:57] <tsimonq2> I mean, the active members of the team only include Canonical employees at the moment as far as I know
[13:57] <tsimonq2> I get it... people are busy. Just don't tell me I didn't upload it in time :P
[13:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> No, one is not a Canonical employee, but two are on vacation this week.
[13:58] <tsimonq2> Sounds about right. Hey, people gotta take vacation eventually. Once everyone is back if stuff isn't any better we can raise further hell... but I have a lot of patience here
[13:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> But that's only 2 out of 8, so I really don't think that's any excuse. It's an equally-shared responsibility this time of the cycle, so there's a ball being dropped.
[14:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Others have commented on how long the unapproved queue is this close to Final Freeze.
[14:02] <tsimonq2> I have to choose my battles these days, and this is not a battle we can really win unless someone volunteers, and I'm getting there...
[14:02] <tsimonq2> I'm definitely not disagreeing with you
[14:02] <tsimonq2> Is it worth further action? Not yet, to me at least...
[14:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> No, not worth further action. I'm just venting/a little concerned.
[14:04] <tsimonq2> Yeah no, I definitely get where you're coming from
[19:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Did anyone see any Qt-related or LXQt-related changes go into the archive recently? LXQt has a couple of severe graphical problems that manifested just recently, and I'm wondering where to start looking.
[19:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also, if anyone knows an easy way for me to find out, that would be awesome.)
[19:37] <tsimonq2> DDG: !upkg qtbase-opensource-src
[19:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Code decrypted, executing...
[19:37] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.15.6+dfsg-1
[19:38] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.15.6+dfsg-1
[19:38]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (13KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/rTIDwyIJtQVzfwceEHysCaYn/image.png >
[19:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Wow, looks like you're faster at this than I am.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxqt-qtplugin/1.1.0-1build1
[19:38] <tsimonq2> Migrated the same time as Qt did
[19:39] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, lemme try downgrading some stuff and see what happens.
[19:39] <tsimonq2> Raw list of package uploads to Kinetic: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kinetic-changes
[19:39]  * arraybolt3[m] really really hopes that this isn't a new Qt bug
[19:39] <tsimonq2> Congratulations, guess what kind of bugs I've fixed before :P
[19:40] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, into the fray I go. Wish me luck!
[19:40] <tsimonq2> If you need help git bisecting Qt and you can identify reproducible steps w/ no ability to reproduce on Debian Testing https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qtbase-opensource-src then lmk
[19:41] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍
[19:42] <arraybolt3[m]> (wait, I have to compile all of Qt? 😰)
[19:42] <tsimonq2> well if it's a Qt bug yes
[19:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Guess this is what sbuild is good for.
[19:42] <tsimonq2> don't worry though, we don't seed QtWebEngine
[19:42] <arraybolt3[m]> \o/
[19:42] <tsimonq2> (That takes 24 hours to compile on my machine, still, in 2022...)
[19:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I've compiled KDE Plasma multiple times in just the last few days so I don't know why I think Qt will be daunting. Anyways, I have it downloading now and will begin the attack shortly.
[19:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh lovely. Well on the bright side I don't have to fight with git-buildpackage. On the dark side, the packaging and source code are decoupled so that means I have to integrate the actual Qt source itself from a different Git repo.
[19:46] <tsimonq2> Welcome to packaging Qt ;)
[19:47] <arraybolt3[m]> And it's pulling almost a million files (not an exaggeration). 🤪
[19:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (836,197 objects to be exact.)
[19:47] <tsimonq2> Oh yeah. If your connection isn't fast I'd use a shallow clone
[19:47] <tsimonq2> --depth=1 or similar
[19:47] <tsimonq2> But if you're bisecting you need a full clone soooooo
[19:48] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Eh, it's fast enough. Probably about as fast as an ISO download. Will --depth=1 still let me bisect?
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, that's kinda what I figured.
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess almost a million files actually is an exaggeration to some degree - about a million files is more accurate, but whatever.)
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> s/almost/about/
[19:54] <tsimonq2> (Isn't exaggerating a highball not a lowball? :) )
[19:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Almost a million would be like 950,000 or something, so that would be a highball IMO.
[19:55]  * arraybolt3[m] blames the Qt mess on teward
[19:56] <tsimonq2> oh, you didn't <em> *about*, I catch your drift
[19:56] <teward[m]> hey i don't touch GUI stacks as far as I can throw them
[19:57] <tsimonq2> he's right, he's the reason all of the infra is down ;)
[19:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Right but it's about time we blamed everything on someone other than Simon and you're the next most obvious target. :P
[19:57] <teward[m]> *throws simon into the abyss*
[19:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Abyss is closed on Thursday.
[19:57] <teward[m]> no, not that abyss
[19:58] <teward[m]>  /dev/abyss which links to /dev/null
[19:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I thought I deleted that symlink long ago!
[19:58]  * arraybolt3[m] immediately runs rkhunter to find out what teward's malware analysis team did to my laptop
[19:58] <tsimonq2> teward: I just want all this PHP code I'm working on to be piped straight into /dev/null tbh
[19:58] <teward[m]> that i believe lol
[19:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: That's easy. `cat * | tee /dev/null > /dev/null`
[19:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Throw it away twice and keep it all!
[19:59] <tsimonq2> nonono like this: `mv *.php /dev/null` oops all the code is gone
[19:59] <teward[m]> or the more dangerous version of that command: [CENSORED]
[20:00] <arraybolt3[m]> H*&8rgofsefiu`rm -rf /`ius7yS*tf6767tow4tuhi5urhtg
[20:00] <tsimonq2> wait is it taboo to say that now?
[20:00]  * tsimonq2 goes on a dad-style "society sucks" ranyt
[20:00]  * tsimonq2  * goes on a dad-style "society sucks" rant
[20:01] <arraybolt3[m]> In a technical support room, probably.
[20:01]  * teward[m] charges tsimonq2 with treasonous sedition
[20:01] <arraybolt3[m]> But I don't think anyone in here will read our conversation and be like "Hey I wonder what *that* command does! <clackety clackety> *GASP*"
[20:02] <arraybolt3[m]> `sudo apt install photorec`
[20:02] <tsimonq2> Yeah, and if you, dear reader, are one of those people. Don't. We warned you.
[20:02] <arraybolt3[m]> s/photorec/testdisk/
[20:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, QT code pulled, guess I'm going to descend into the caverns of Gobble Important Treasures (what git really stands for).
[20:03]  * tsimonq2 goes back to wondering why mPDF has to be this convoluted, or at least this implementation of it...
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Man, VirtualBox seems to always be so grumpy. /me has got to remember to go GNOME Boxes, always.
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Unless I have no other choice.
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or I need the power of virt-manager.)
 "Man, VirtualBox seems to..." <- Throw the baby out with the bathwater imo - VirtualBox sucks
 QEMU-KVM is god xD
[23:03] <tsimonq2> ^^^^^^^^
 arraybolt: just dont do what i do - chain KVM and LXD bridges together heh
[23:03] <tsimonq2> Masochist lol
 my LXD DHCP box handles the DHCP for the bridge I put my qemu vms on
[23:04] <tsimonq2> just why XD
 @tsimonq2 better than having to hardcode new bridges and NAT rules
 because qemu autonat is broke when lxd is installed and functional
[23:04] <tsimonq2> I mean... true.
 no idea qhy
 but at least qemu can use the bridge xS
 just like a container can.
[23:04] <tsimonq2> OH that explains a lot thanks teward :P
[23:05] <tsimonq2> (I've seen that functionality recently and didn't connect the dots... until now heh)
[23:05] <tsimonq2> yeah, thankfully bridges don't require their own JVM embedded inside Haskell :P
 yeah i have two LXD bridges on my env - one for persistent services thats static ip only configs and one thats DHCP enabled for everything ephemeral.  qemu can use either bridge and not need to set up its own
[23:06] <tsimonq2> that's really neat actually
 so yay saves me a chaos
 ye well lxd can speak KVM under the hood too so
 when using lxd to deploy full vms with the cloud images it uses kvm.
[23:37] <arraybolt3[m]> I use QEMU/KVM most of the time.
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> But KDE developers are a picky bunch. All the good QEMU/KVM frontends are GNOME-based, and VBox is Qt, so...


[09:12] <CryptoMole> hi all
[09:12] <CryptoMole> i run feisty fawn currently
[09:13] <CryptoMole> and i was thinking about trying gusty tribes2
[09:13] <CryptoMole> does anyone know what i might run into for problems?
[09:14] <cjwatson> firstly, the current release is Tribe 3, so use that instead (and it's "gutsy" :-))
[09:15] <cjwatson> do you mean problems with the installer?
[09:15] <CryptoMole> yes and also after install
[09:15] <cjwatson> we only deal with the former here
[09:15] <CryptoMole> its on my thinkpad
[09:15] <cjwatson> AFAIK it's currently in pretty good shape
[09:15] <cjwatson> but really, you should upgrade rather than doing a fresh install
[09:15] <CryptoMole> aw
[09:16] <cjwatson> for after install, #ubuntu+1 is a better place
[09:16] <CryptoMole> thanks
[09:16] <CryptoMole> so anything on the installer
[09:17] <CryptoMole> i should know
[09:17] <cjwatson> not really
[09:17] <CryptoMole> ok
[09:17] <cjwatson> (at least not to my knowledge)
[09:18] <CryptoMole> so do upgrade, ill have to find out how to do that cause i have forgotten
[09:19] <superm1> CryptoMole, again, this isn't realy intended discussion for this channel, but this will get you started: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe3
[09:20] <superm1> join into #ubuntu+1 :)
[09:23] <CryptoMole> thanks
[09:30] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: could I test the new debconf on dapper netboot by replacing some files on the fly while it's installing?
[09:52] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: yes, but I figured a modified ISO image would be a better test - why?
[09:53] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: the patch is in the bug - if you apply that after debconf is installed by base-installer but before pkgsel *starts*, then that would be a valid test
[09:53] <cjwatson> you either have to be quick, or edit pkgsel.postinst to put 'sleep 3600 || true' at the start and kill the sleep process when you're ready for it
[09:53] <cjwatson> oh, sorry, you said netboot
[09:54] <cjwatson> yeah, I guess that would be interesting. The problem is that it only shows up some of the time, so you might well have to run several times or on several machines to confirm that the hang had gone away or at least been ameliorated
[09:55] <cjwatson> but if you're prepared to patch on the fly maybe five or ten times over, or else set something up to automate it, sure
[10:22] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: I could reproduce it on some machines every time, so I'd test that first
[10:22] <tepsipakki> and then the fix
[10:25] <tepsipakki> but I'll try to come up with a way to test it several times
[11:09] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: ok, that would be great then
[11:10] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: the URL on cdimage.ubuntu.com I gave in the bug includes patches adjusted to apply to dapper, edgy, and feisty
[11:10] <cjwatson> you'll want to grab the dapper one as the original patch won't apply directly - a few other things were changed


[09:37] <pop79> hi, I have an idea for ubuntu, is this the place to tell?
[09:41] <mpt> pop79, probably not, unless it's about the help pages and other documentation
[09:41] <pop79> nah, it is kinda about the core of the system, where should i go?
[09:42] <mpt> pop79, it depends what kind of thing it is
[09:42] <mpt> If it's something Ubuntu actually does wrong, you could report it as a bug
[09:42] <pop79> oh, well, where is the developers area on irc?
[09:43] <mpt> If it's an idea for improvement and you can fully write out how it should work, you could register a blueprint <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu> and write a specification on the Ubuntu wiki <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/>
[09:43] <pop79> iok, thanks!
[09:43] <pop79> ok, :)
[09:43] <mpt> If it's a not-quite-complete idea, you could try Ubuntu Brainstorm to get feedback on it <http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/<
[09:43] <mpt> heh, too slow