[09:42] <tonyyarusso> @schedule montreal
[09:42] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 15:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board
[09:45] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[09:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 Oct 22:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 01:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 06:00: Technical Board
[09:45] <GNAM> @schedule ROME
[09:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
[01:55] <Ekushey> cc meeting in 5 minutes?
[01:56] <JanC> yes
[01:56] <Ekushey> ok cool
[01:58] <jono> hey all
[01:58] <Ekushey> hi jono
[01:58] <lloydinho> hey jono.
[01:58] <ajmitch> ello jono
[01:59] <Fujitsu> jono!
[01:59] <jono> hows things folks?
[01:59] <lloydinho> good.
[01:59] <Ekushey> jono: waiting for the cc meeting to start :>
[02:00] <Hobbsee> hey all
[02:00] <looksaus> hi
[02:00] <TheMuso> Hello all.
[02:00] <Kamion> mako: are you going to be here? I'm flat-out with the edgy RC
[02:00] <Swaps> hi!
[02:01] <Ekushey> jono: can u pls check if this looks OK or not? --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BangladeshiTeam/ApprovalApplication
[02:01] <fouadbajwa> Hi
[02:02] <Ekushey> hi fouad bhai :)
[02:04] <jono> sorry phone, back now
[02:04] <Ekushey> wb
[02:04] <jono> Ekushey, let me check
[02:04] <jono> hey fouadbajwa
[02:04] <Ekushey> sure, thanks
[02:05] <looksaus> Swaps, hi
[02:05] <fouadbajwa> Hi Ekushey and everyone else
[02:05] <jono> any CC people here yet?
[02:05] <Hobbsee> jono: ish.  they're having trouble with quorum again
[02:06] <fouadbajwa> looks like everybody ready for the meeting, how far is it from exactly this moment, i mean in how many hours will the meeting start
[02:06] <jono> trouble with quorum?
[02:06] <jono> fouadbajwa, any second now :)
[02:06] <Swaps> Hi delicious looksaus! :D
[02:06] <jono> Ekushey, looks good, but could you flesh out your roadmap a little - provide some more detail :)
[02:07] <Kamion> jono: I'm here, but as above I'd rather be excused if we can assemble quorum without me
[02:07] <jono> right
[02:07] <Hobbsee> jono: you could form part of quorum temporarily?
[02:07] <Ekushey> jono: ok thanks
[02:07] <smurf> Hobbsee: doesn't work that way ;-)
[02:07] <jono> I am not on the CC though
[02:08] <Hobbsee> jono: that surprises me.
[02:08] <jono> I do intend to be on the CC when possible :)
[02:08] <elmo> I'm not able to reach mark or mako, we may have to postpone
[02:08] <Ekushey> hi smurf! long time no see
[02:09] <Hobbsee> jono: which is when?
[02:09] <smurf> elmo: *sigh*
[02:09] <jono> Hobbsee, not sure really
[02:09] <jono> Hobbsee, need to check into it
[02:09] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: depends when new people are nominated to the CC
[02:09] <Hobbsee> jono: indeed.  the other person who sometimes joins in when they're down on people is Seveas, but i'm not sure if he's here
[02:09] <Hobbsee> true that
[02:09] <bimberi> CC members are ratified by the membership
[02:10] <jono> well I would be interesting in becoming a CC member at the next opportunity
[02:10] <jono> naturally I would need support from the community for this
[02:10] <looksaus> Hobbsee, Seveas told me he wouldn't be able to make it to this meeting
[02:10] <Hobbsee> ahh okay
[02:10] <Kamion> jono: we'll be talking about it at Mountain View; yours was one of the names I suggested to replace me, since I'm retiring
[02:10] <Fujitsu> jono, you're the community manager, I think most members will support you.
[02:10] <thoreauputic> jono: start lobbying *now* *grin*
[02:10] <Hobbsee> Kamion: you're retiring?
[02:10] <jono> Kamion, ahhh right
[02:10] <looksaus> which is why he left a statement on my application page
[02:10] <Kamion> Hobbsee: from the CC, yes
[02:11] <Hobbsee> Kamion: ahh okay
[02:11] <raphink> hi
[02:11] <jono> heh, maybe I should start a presidential campaign :P
[02:11] <Hobbsee> jono: that could be interesting
[02:11] <thoreauputic> jono: nah, too expensive
[02:11] <jono> thoreauputic, not my campaign - 2.50 all in :P
[02:11] <bimberi> hm, i would have thought that the CC and the Community Manager would be separate entities
[02:11] <Fujitsu> Hey sabdfl!
[02:11] <Hobbsee> hey sabdfl
[02:11] <yama> president of what? Trying to topple sabdfl ?
[02:11] <jono> hey sabdfl
[02:11] <Hobbsee> looks like we have quorum.  elmo *poke*?
[02:12] <thoreauputic> jono: ah, you're the economy candidate then ;)
[02:12] <sabdfl> hey folks
[02:12] <jono> thoreauputic, less of that.. :P
[02:12] <Hobbsee> oh wait, isnt the CC three?  gah, i cant count.
[02:12] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl
[02:12] <bimberi> hi ... ajmitch ;)
[02:12] <ajmitch> hey bimberi :)
[02:12] <raphink> hi ajmitch
[02:12] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[02:13] <raphink> hi Tonio_, sabdfl, Hobbsee
[02:13] <Hobbsee> hey raphink
[02:13] <thoreauputic> ajmitch: that should help the insomnia
[02:13] <bimberi> ajmitch: that'll help :)
[02:13] <TheMuso> ajmitch: That must suck.
[02:13] <bimberi> snap
[02:13] <TheMuso> Not sleeping that is.
[02:13] <sabdfl> so, let's look at the agenda
[02:13] <thoreauputic> bimberi: :)
[02:14] <sabdfl> are we in a position to take the IRC issue further?
[02:14] <thoreauputic> sabdfl: you've probably seen seveas' comments elsewhere on that issue
[02:15] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: i *doubt* anyone's prepared for that, not having expected you to be here.
[02:15] <elmo> sabdfl: maybe we should defer that till UDS
[02:16] <smurf> we have deferred that item for so long, three more weeks won't hurt any :-/
[02:16] <elmo> sabdfl: I think it's something the whole CC should discuss (which we can't seem to do often) and would benefit from higher bandwidth
[02:16] <elmo> but *shrug*
[02:17] <Kamion> agree
[02:17] <sabdfl> for the record, i'm not convinced by the GetOffFreenodeSpec
[02:17] <sabdfl> it's light on substance
[02:17] <Kamion> I also felt uncomfortable discussing it immediately post lilo's death
[02:17] <jono> I agree to, and I think we need to talk about a phased move, if anything
[02:17] <elmo> GetOffFreenodeSpec was meant to be superseded by something more substanial
[02:17] <elmo> but apparently that never happened
[02:17] <Kamion> although obviously we can't defer it forever
[02:17] <thoreauputic> possibly peopel are reluctant to discuss it because it has potential for major disagreements
[02:17] <sabdfl> well, i think we take it off the CC agenda till someone does a better job of the proposal
[02:18] <jono> canonical channels moving seems a reasonable reason due to privacy, but I am not convinced by public channels moving
[02:18] <sabdfl> i don't think the canonical issue is sufficient justification
[02:18] <ogra> wasnt there a decision to move the -dvel channels already?
[02:18] <sabdfl> we could run a private SSL-based authenticated IRC server if we really wanted a closed loop
[02:18] <ogra> *-devel
[02:18] <Kamion> is everyone in Canonical who cares about the distro in a position to deal with multiple networks easily?
[02:18] <ogra> (in a former CC meeting)
[02:18] <sabdfl> we should be where our users and upstream developers are
[02:18] <Kamion> (I'd hope so)
[02:19] <jono> sabdfl, I agree - I just heard reports of security issues on freenode
[02:19] <sabdfl> Kamion: i think Gaim handles that
[02:19] <sabdfl> jono: irritations more than issues
[02:19] <jono> I think we need a better proposal as said though
[02:19] <elmo> sabdfl: well, Debian moved to oftc, they're arguably a large chunk of our upstream
[02:19] <thoreauputic> please notice that there are still over 600 people in #debian despite their move  - do we want aplit channels?
[02:19] <JanC> upstream developers are on several networks already (e.g. GNOME)
[02:19] <elmo> Kamion: yes
[02:19] <sabdfl> i'd like to propose we remove this from the agenda till someone has done a better rationale
[02:19] <jsgotangco> thoreauputic: however, that's not upstream channel
[02:19] <azeem> thoreauputic: that channel is the exception, all the others have moved
[02:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: I have no issues with that
[02:19] <elmo> the canonical stuff is indeed irrelevant - we are going to be running a private IRC server for that
[02:20] <sabdfl> ok, what's next?
[02:20] <sabdfl> localisation team leader
[02:20] <OgMaciel> morning all
[02:20] <sabdfl> g'day OgMaciel :-)
[02:20] <thoreauputic> azeem: my point is simply that splitting  the community seems like a retrograde step
[02:20] <sabdfl> your timing is rather impeccable
[02:20] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:20] <OgMaciel> there was traffic
[02:20] <OgMaciel> just arrived at work
[02:20] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:20] <azeem> thoreauputic: it's the support channel, the community (i.e. #debian-devel) actually got *merged* by the move (it was split for years)
[02:20] <sabdfl> thoreauputic: agreed, but that's off the agenda now till / unless we get a new proposal
[02:21] <thoreauputic> sabdfl: yup - OK
[02:21] <sabdfl> so let's talk about ubuntu translations, and leadership
[02:21] <zakame> hi all
[02:21] <sabdfl> right now we have a pretty good infrastructure, in rosetta, though there are definitely issues there
[02:22] <sabdfl> some issues relate to how we coordinate with upstream - i think those are improving, socially and technically
[02:22] <sabdfl> some issues are to do with how teams are able to do QA on their membership
[02:22] <quail> evening all
[02:22] <sabdfl> keeping track of new suggestions and translations by members of the teams
[02:22] <sabdfl> for teams who KNOW how all this works, it is getting better quickly
[02:22] <sabdfl> but we don't have anyone leading, championing, translation in Ubuntu
[02:22] <sabdfl> this person or team would:
[02:22] <sabdfl>  - help new translation teams get started
[02:23] <sabdfl>  - communicate regularly with the translation teams about release status and translation priorities
[02:23] <sabdfl>    (i.e. "please translate Kamion's newest upload asap it cannot be updated post-release")
[02:23] <sabdfl>  - help translation teams and LoCo teams coordinate with relevant upstreams, but telling them about best practice
[02:24] <sabdfl> there's also a big opportunity to help improve the state of fontconfig and input method configuration in Ubuntu for many languages
[02:24] <Kamion> I'd also expect:
[02:24] <Kamion>  - liaise with the development team regarding bugs/issues affecting translations
[02:24] <sabdfl> which requires working in many cases with the same groups of people
[02:24] <zakame> hmm something nearly like what bubulle does for debian, right?
[02:25] <jsgotangco> well we do get alerts from debian to "hey update this and that"
[02:25] <Kamion> zakame: bubulle and Denis Barbier and others, yes
[02:25] <sabdfl> elmo, mako, any other suggestions? zakame: yes, bubulle is great
[02:26] <Kamion> bubulle is very good at making sure translators are clued up on all their technical requirements, and if necessary setting up systems to simplify and automate those
[02:26] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: we notice updates when we sync in new work from debian
[02:26] <Kamion> so I'd hope that an Ubuntu translation coordinator would also help to liaise with the Launchpad team regarding blocking issues for translators
[02:27] <Hobbsee> (as a sidenote:  if that someone could deal with the rosetta/kde upstream relationship too, that'd be good.)
[02:27] <sabdfl> OgMaciel: do you want to tell us a bit about yourself, and how you see the role, and what you would bring to it?
[02:27] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: sure thing
[02:27] <sabdfl> Hobbsee: i think the rosetta guys are speaking directly with kde upstream
[02:27] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: oh good.
[02:27] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: I feel very "attracted" to this role, since my involvement with Ubuntu has always been related to translation and advocacy
[02:28] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: I have formed some ideas about how things should be for things to *just work*
[02:28] <OgMaciel> things that require a lot of flexibility from all parties
[02:28] <sabdfl> OgMaciel: do you have much experience with .po, gettext, fontconfig, scim?
[02:29] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: not extensive for the bulk of my work has been done through Rosetta
[02:29] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: but I do thing Rosetta has the potential to lessen the learning curve there
[02:30] <OgMaciel> that is the beauty of things
[02:30] <sabdfl> part of this job is social - leadership and communication and advocacy
[02:30] <OgMaciel> if we all can get together and talk to upstream folks, we could have a system that would benefit everyone
[02:30] <sabdfl> part of it is technical
[02:30] <jono> OgMaciel, what impact would the role have with your duties in your LoCo team?
[02:30] <sabdfl> do you think that should be split into two roles?
[02:31] <OgMaciel> jono: I have thought of that... and I believe it is time for someone else take the leadership of pt_BR LoCo...  someone local
[02:31] <jono> OgMaciel, ok
[02:32] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: I actually see this as a sub-group activity
[02:32] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: a couple of guys sharing these responsibilities
[02:32] <sabdfl> OgMaciel: what would you say you have learned from the pt_BR experience?
[02:33] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: in terms of translations, I noticed that a few things need to be changed as far as nomenclature goes, in order for people to feel they're part of something
[02:33] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: the word "leader" and "oficial" throws people off
[02:33] <Kamion> OgMaciel: how comfortable would you be liaising with the development team, and how would you go about identifying and addressing problems affecting translations?
[02:34] <OgMaciel> Kamion: for one thing, I'd set up regular meetings where groups could get together and discuss issues
[02:34] <OgMaciel> Kamion: it would also serve as a source of sharing info
[02:35] <OgMaciel> I also believe it is extremelly important to get upstream more involved
[02:35] <Kamion> as in translation groups, or translators+developers, or somewhere in between?
[02:35] <jsgotangco> why not revive the traffic in the -translators list as well
[02:35] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco: +1
[02:35] <OgMaciel> Kamion: between
[02:35] <OgMaciel> I envision a worldwide repository of translations
[02:36] <OgMaciel> where upstream would step up
[02:36] <OgMaciel> and actually stear things
[02:36] <OgMaciel> I would gladly take their experience in account
[02:36] <OgMaciel> make upstream pristine
[02:37] <OgMaciel> and make Rosetta a never ending source of suggestions
[02:37] <jono> OgMaciel, how would you resolve conflict?
[02:37] <OgMaciel> jono: I would make upstream pristine and the default translation
[02:37] <OgMaciel> jono: and would sit down with them
[02:37] <OgMaciel> upstream that is
[02:38] <OgMaciel> and lock them up until they were convinced to jump in and help us turn Rosetta into a repository of suggestions
[02:38] <OgMaciel> and have them teach us their methods
[02:38] <OgMaciel> and speed things up
[02:38] <sabdfl> easy, OgMaciel, i don't think you should base your plans on huge changes in rosetta
[02:39] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: got carried away there
[02:39] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:39] <sabdfl> most of what we are looking at now is not based on rosetta, but on community leadership and coordination
[02:39] <joeCoT> or extreme cooperation from upstream :)
[02:39] <OgMaciel> hehe
[02:39] <sabdfl> getting carried away won't help - we're really looking for someone who can coordinate and lead the existing effort
[02:40] <jsgotangco> OgMaciel: most people will actually tell you how efficient doing translations in cvs is compared to rosetta despite the extremely low learning curve
[02:40] <OgMaciel> well, I would suggest that people get a hold of their respective upstream groups and initiate some communication
[02:40] <jono> OgMaciel, exactly, this role really requires diplomacy at all levels
[02:40] <OgMaciel> jono: agreed
[02:40] <sabdfl> i think it most requires patience and diligence, together with some champion-advocacy
[02:40] <Kamion> phone
[02:40] <Hobbsee> OgMaciel: which is difficult when they tell you that it's a waste of time to be using rosetta?  How do you deal with such things?
[02:41] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: I usually show them Rosetta in action
[02:41] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: for instance
[02:41] <Hobbsee> ouch, my timing is a litle bad, sorry.
[02:41] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: I would pick a string that is considered to be inaccurate
[02:41] <Belutz> is the loco meeting started yet?
[02:42] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: and would show them how to "fix" it
[02:42] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: and I would approve the fix
[02:42] <gnomefre1k> Belutz: this is the CC meeting
[02:42] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: get the PO, do a switch-a-roo, and voila'
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Belutz: just over 2 more hours
[02:42] <Belutz> gnomefre1k: oopss, must be the time difference
[02:42] <jono> Belutz, not for a while yet
[02:43] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: there is only one major issue for me
[02:43] <OgMaciel> sabdfl: time
[02:43] <OgMaciel> this is a somewhat huge task
[02:44] <OgMaciel> and my new job doesn't give me a lot of free time
[02:44] <sabdfl> it is a big responsibility, yes
[02:44] <jsgotangco> but i think you don't need a one-to-one conversation to do most of the work
[02:44] <OgMaciel> so I'm here to support maybe someone else to take the role... and I would do my best to support this individual
[02:44] <Kamion> OgMaciel: is your new job free-software-friendly?
[02:44] <OgMaciel> Kamion: extremelly friendly
[02:44] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:45] <Kamion> that often helps
[02:45] <OgMaciel> my boss is very easy going
[02:45] <OgMaciel> and we are on IRC all the time
[02:46] <OgMaciel> I guess for starters, starting regular meetings for translators could get the ball rolling
[02:46] <OgMaciel> rosetta guys could also attend them
[02:46] <jono> it might be an idea to get an idea for minimum time commitment for the role and see if OgMaciel can satisfy that
[02:47] <OgMaciel> jono: I like the sound of that
[02:47] <OgMaciel> I am more than willing to step into this position
[02:47] <sabdfl> yes, we could definitely get the rosetta guys to those meetings
[02:48] <amachu> hi all
[02:48] <amachu> Sri Ramadoss alias amachu here
[02:48] <amachu> has the meeting started?
[02:48] <mindspin> cc already
[02:49] <OgMaciel> we could start holding some online "classes" for translators too
[02:50] <Hobbsee> OgMaciel: hooking up with the ubuntu classroom people, maybe?
[02:50] <OgMaciel> Hobbsee: asolutely  ;)
[02:50] <OgMaciel> absolutely
[02:52] <jsgotangco> are there any questions for OgMaciel?
[02:52] <jsgotangco> any more
[02:52] <jono> if no decision is being made today, can I suggest the applicants for this position maybe write up a wiki page with their plans, experience etc for further discussion
[02:52] <jsgotangco> jono: +1
[02:52] <jsgotangco> but amachu is here already might as well give him a chance as well since OgMaciel did say his piece
[02:53] <mindspin> Isn't it an issue between those who did translation work for other projects and those who stumble into rosetta and start doing translations "from the bottom line"?
[02:53] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco: +1
[02:53] <sabdfl> amachu: we are discussing the translation leadership position
[02:53] <amachu> sabdfl: yes
[02:53] <sabdfl> could you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your experience with translation, fontconfig, input methods, etc
[02:53] <sabdfl> also, contributions and participation in ubuntu translation
[02:53] <amachu> yes..
[02:53] <sabdfl> and how you would lead such an effort?
[02:54] <amachu> shall i start?
[02:54] <sabdfl> yes please!
[02:54] <Kamion> sabdfl: perhaps it would be fair to repeat your intro from earlier?
[02:54] <sabdfl> i must unfortunately step into another meeting now.
[02:54] <amachu> I am sri ramadas, contact person of Ubuntu Tamil Team
[02:54] <sabdfl> Kamion: ok, can I paste?
[02:54] <Kamion> sure
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:21:46) sabdfl: so let's talk about ubuntu translations, and leadership
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:21:55) zakame [n=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame]  entered the room.
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:21:58) sabdfl: right now we have a pretty good infrastructure, in rosetta, though there are definitely issues there
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:21:58) zakame: hi all
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:17) sabdfl: some issues relate to how we coordinate with upstream - i think those are improving, socially and technically
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:28) sabdfl: some issues are to do with how teams are able to do QA on their membership
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:32) quail: evening all
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:38) sabdfl: keeping track of new suggestions and translations by members of the teams
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:48) sabdfl: for teams who KNOW how all this works, it is getting better quickly
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:22:56) sabdfl: but we don't have anyone leading, championing, translation in Ubuntu
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:23:01) sabdfl: this person or team would:
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:23:08) sabdfl:  - help new translation teams get started
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:23:25) sabdfl:  - communicate regularly with the translation teams about release status and translation priorities
[02:54] <amachu> we started in august and is now twelve in number
[02:54] <sabdfl> (13:23:43) sabdfl:    (i.e. "please translate Kamion's newest upload asap it cannot be updated post-release")
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:10) sabdfl:  - help translation teams and LoCo teams coordinate with relevant upstreams, but telling them about best practice
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:35) sabdfl: there's also a big opportunity to help improve the state of fontconfig and input method configuration in Ubuntu for many languages
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:37) Kamion: I'd also expect:
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:38) Kamion:  - liaise with the development team regarding bugs/issues affecting translations
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:44) sabdfl: which requires working in many cases with the same groups of people
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:24:59) zakame: hmm something nearly like what bubulle does for debian, right?
[02:55] <amachu> we perform translation on rosetta,
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:25:19) jsgotangco: well we do get alerts from debian to "hey update this and that"
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:25:22) Kamion: zakame: bubulle and Denis Barbier and others, yes
[02:55] <sabdfl> (13:25:23) sabdfl: elmo, mako, any other suggestions? zakame: yes, bubulle is great
[02:55] <sabdfl> that's it
[02:55] <sabdfl> i'll read scrollback later
[02:55] <amachu> hi.. sabdfl: listening to me?
[02:55] <sabdfl> cheers all
[02:55] <zakame> cheers sabdfl
[02:55] <sabdfl> amachu: yes, the rest of the group is, i need to step afk
[02:55] <OgMaciel> take care sabdfl
[02:56] <Belutz> cheers sabdfl :)
[02:56] <Fujitsu> Bye, sabdfl_afk!
[02:56] <jono> later sabdfl_afk
[02:56] <amachu> We all in our Team use SCIM input method for Translation
[02:56] <amachu> www.ubuntu-tam.org is our website
[02:57] <amachu> Now, my opinions of Translations and plans...
[02:57] <amachu> 1) We need to have strong back up of vocalulary of local language, to carry out translation
[02:57] <amachu> vocabulary
[02:58] <amachu> so we tied up with Tamil Wiktionary, a Wikipedia project, to collect English words and theri corresponding Tamil words
[02:59] <OgMaciel> cool
[03:00] <amachu> http://ta.wiktionary.org/
[03:00] <jsgotangco> amachu: how would you work on upstream with regards to translations, not just with tamil?
[03:01] <amachu> we find the way we work in Tamil is paying dividends and can be applied to other teams also
[03:02] <amachu> Rosetta as such has one disadvantage as far as developing countries..
[03:02] <zakame> brb
[03:02] <amachu> unavailabity of broad band connections...
[03:03] <amachu> so colleges and other educational institutions are the key
[03:04] <jsgotangco> amachu: im sorry but most of these are infrastructural and the position of translation team leader is more social in nature (but there are some technical issues as well), the model the tamil team adopts may not be as successful to other teams, for various reasons and require nurturing
[03:04] <amachu> sure
[03:04] <amachu> jsgotangco: I agree
[03:05] <Kamion> amachu: we'd like to hear more about how you'd liaise with other teams (including Ubuntu development and Rosetta), train new translators, that ort of thing
[03:05] <Kamion> ort -> sort
[03:07] <amachu> Kamion: training new translators, we should have pre-prepared documents on training tools.. the transalating tools like KBabel, GTranslator...
[03:09] <amachu> Next, All the words that have bee translated uptill now should be available for download collectively (one time download), since brb is not readily available..
[03:09] <Kamion> have you done anything to date that involved working with code changes required to support translations better?
[03:09] <OgMaciel> I think amachu touched an important part, which is getting more documents about *best practices* for performing translations using Rosetta, etc
[03:10] <jono>  agreed
[03:10] <OgMaciel> it would be interesting getting LoCo teams that share some of the languages, like spanish for instance, together
[03:10] <amachu> no not as yet...
[03:10] <OgMaciel> there's a slight chance that they could benefit from each others efforts
[03:11] <amachu> Now if all translations done uptil now are available then huge amount of time will be saved in re-translating the same word
[03:11] <amachu> Rosetta does that but brb is concern
[03:11] <Kamion> "brb"?
[03:12] <amachu> broad band connectivity
[03:12] <OgMaciel> maybe someone could start a thread titled: "How we [LoCo team name goes here]  operate"?
[03:12] <amachu> Kbabel is the best tool we have witnessed
[03:12] <amachu> it comes with Dictinary management services
[03:14] <fouadbajwa> a small question, shouldn't there be a feature in Launchpad for a team admin to be able to send a message to all team members
[03:14] <amachu> so, if the teams could download the PO file that contains all translations, add it to their local Kabel dictionary, half the time is saved...
[03:14] <fouadbajwa> i know the LoCo team lists are there
[03:14] <fouadbajwa> but still
[03:15] <Kamion> fouadbajwa: I think that's off-topic here; #launchpad, or a bug report
[03:15] <fouadbajwa> oh
[03:15] <fouadbajwa> i was asking in light of LoCo Teams
[03:15] <amachu> now Teams should be encouraged to create communities dedicated for a particular application
[03:15] <fouadbajwa> seeking suggestion
[03:15] <fouadbajwa> whether to propose or not
[03:15] <OgMaciel> fouadbajwa: please do file a feature request about that :)
[03:15] <Kamion> ok
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> okay, this has to be done at #launchpad right
[03:16] <amachu> so that their translation of a particular application doesn't get obsolete when a new version of that application is released
[03:16] <JanC> that bug rapport exists and is a year old or something like that  :)
[03:16] <Kamion> amachu: thanks for your comments; I think the CC will need some time to consider the applications
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> i think if all of the teamleads here propose
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> it might just wokr
[03:16] <OgMaciel> fouadbajwa: correct... let me know in pvt if you need help with that
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> work
[03:16] <Kamion> so we will report either next meeting, or after the conference in Mountain View
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> hmm,
[03:16] <fouadbajwa> right
[03:17] <Kamion> elmo: any idea whether sabdfl's going to be back for locoteam/membership?
[03:17] <elmo> Kamion: no, he's appeared but already run off to another meeting
[03:17] <elmo> how about we use this opportunity to trial jono
[03:17] <amachu> Kamion: Thank U
[03:17] <jono> elkbuntu, surwe
[03:17] <jono> sure
[03:17] <Kamion> certainly for locoteams, at least
[03:17] <fouadbajwa> haha
[03:18] <elmo> get him to act as 3rd, and have sabdfl ok that and/or the applicants later?
[03:18] <fouadbajwa> we don't have to trial Jono
[03:18] <Kamion> (we've never been too bothered about strict voting requirements on those)
[03:18] <fouadbajwa> he has already proved his mark
[03:18] <fouadbajwa> with the Official Ubuntu Guide ;)
[03:18] <fouadbajwa> have you all read the guide
[03:18] <elmo> ok, so let's do locoteams
[03:19] <fouadbajwa> does anyone have a pdf version of the Official Ubuntu Book?
[03:19] <fouadbajwa> i have chm version
[03:19] <jsgotangco> fouadbajwa: please OT
[03:19] <jono> right can I make a few points about loco's first?
[03:19] <amachu> fouadbajwa: the desktop guide?
[03:19] <gnomefreak> fouadbajwa: i think thats a bit offtopic for this meeting
[03:19] <fouadbajwa> okay
[03:19] <elmo> jono: sure
[03:20] <jono> I have restructured how LoCos get approved a little - they still need to go before the CC, but I have written https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved and ask them to make an approval wiki page
[03:20] <jono> this gives CC members and others a good way of looking at an application
[03:20] <jono> if the CC are ok with it, I would like to make this a requirement to be approved
[03:21] <jono> it makes the process quicker and clearer
[03:21] <jono> LoCo teams can liase with me to get their approval pages written and up to scratch
[03:21] <jono> when they are done, we can present them at a CC meeting such as this and make a decent decision - I will then move teams to the approved status if required
[03:22] <jono> thats it really :)
[03:22] <jono> just so everyone was clear on what I have been doing :)
[03:22] <jono> ok, so lets look at each team
[03:23] <jono> should we do Bangledeshi team then :)
[03:23] <jono> did youy guys want to say a few things to support your application?
[03:23] <Ekushey> jono: like what?
[03:24] <Kamion> jono: I am entirely OK with that procedure. Also worth noting that we like to see that the team is broadly secure in its structure (i.e. no major conflicts over leadership, etc.)
[03:24] <jono> Kamion, right
[03:24] <Kamion> which brings us rather neatly to the Bangladeshi team ;)
[03:24] <jono> have their been leadership issues here?
[03:25] <Kamion> jono: see last meeting's log
[03:25] <Kamion> Ekushey: btw, yes, your mail arrived, sorry nobody replied to say that
[03:25] <Ekushey> Kamion: there isn't any leadership or other kind of conflicts. it's just that this guys named MAK doesn't like me personally so he says all crap.
[03:26] <Kamion> Ekushey: perhaps I should have said alleged conflict
[03:26] <Ekushey> Kamion: did that guy wrote to CC?
[03:26] <Kamion> give me a chance to check my archives here
[03:26] <elmo> I can't see anything
[03:27] <Ekushey> Kamion: so can we get our team approved? we've been waiting for a long time now.
[03:27] <Kamion> Ekushey: HANG ON :-)
[03:27] <Ekushey> ok
[03:28] <Kamion> OK, so Ekushey's mail seems entirely reasonable to me; it appears to be a grudge that should not be relevant to the Ubuntu team
[03:28] <Kamion> makl10n has not mailed us to defend himself
[03:29] <Ekushey> Kamion: i don't understand why he's after me :(
[03:29] <Ekushey> Kamion: he keeps on sending me hate mails
[03:29] <jono> I don't think I can comment either way as I am not familar with the conflict
[03:29] <jono> application looks reasonable, would be nice to see a bit more experience
[03:29] <Kamion> so I think at this point we should consider that conflict irrelevant
[03:29] <Kamion> elmo: ?
[03:30] <elmo> agreed
[03:30] <jono> sounds reasonable
[03:30] <jono> Ekushey, do you lead the team?
[03:30] <Ekushey> jono: yes
[03:30] <jono> Ekushey, the IRC channel seems very empty
[03:31] <Ekushey> jono: irc isn't very popular in bangladesh
[03:31] <jono> right
[03:31] <jono> the list also seem fairly quiet
[03:31] <Ekushey> jono: i've mailed and asked ppl to join the irc channel but appearently they don't like it much
[03:31] <jono> I think I would recommend building up the groups communication channels
[03:32] <jono> Ekushey, sure, but I think it would be wise to encourage discussion on the mailing list
[03:32] <jono> I would see an approved team having a certain amount of information flow going on
[03:32] <Ekushey> jono: we've started doing monthly meetings, and i'm sure it'll help
[03:32] <jono> the work you are doing Ekushey looks great, I just think it maybe needs a touch more to get things rolling
[03:32] <jono> Ekushey, excellent :)
[03:33] <Ekushey> jono: we had our first meeting yesterday, 13 joined
[03:33] <jono> Ekushey, fantastic, that is the kind of stuff to get things moving
[03:33] <Ekushey> jono: i'm trying
[03:33] <Ekushey> jono: i'm trying my best
[03:33] <jono> I would recommend you keep doing these things to build up the communication and defer approval for a little while
[03:33] <Ekushey> jono: oh ok.
[03:34] <jono> not sure what the CC think though
[03:34] <jono> Ekushey, I don't want to dishearten you, but I think you are 80% there and just need to get the communication flowing on your mailing list
[03:35] <Ekushey> jono: 56 signed up on the list, but they don't reply my posts
[03:35] <Ekushey> jono: i got your point
[03:35] <Kamion> I think if they're on the right direction, rather than having to go through another round of meetings, maybe we should just monitor for a while and only bring them back if there seems to be a problem
[03:35] <jono> Ekushey, well we can have a chat about how to get things rolling
[03:35] <Kamion> does that sound reasonable?
[03:36] <jono> Kamion, you mean approve with a probationary period sort of thing?
[03:36] <jono> I am happy to keep an eye on what they are doing an approve it then if needed
[03:36] <Kamion> yeah, I'm kind of thinking out loud
[03:37] <jono> so if the CC are happy with the structure of the group (which seems sound) - I can then finally approve when the comunication is up and running
[03:38] <Kamion> I'm provisionally OK, pending comment from elmo/sabdfl
[03:38] <jono> ok
[03:38] <Ekushey> so we'll have to wait longer, right?
[03:38] <elmo> works fo rme
[03:39] <jono> Ekushey, approval is not the end game, getting an active LoCo is
[03:39] <jono> Ekushey, we are saying that you are provisionally approved - you just need to get more communication going and then I will finally approve it :)
[03:39] <Ekushey> jono: alright i understand, thanks
[03:40] <jono> Ekushey, :)
[03:40] <Kamion> Ekushey: aim of this exercise is that you won't have to sit through another CC meeting as long as you're still basically on the right lines :)
[03:40] <jono> exactamundo
[03:40] <Ekushey> thanks Kamion
[03:40] <Ekushey> thanks to elmo too
[03:40] <jono> are we going to wait for sabdfl's views for when he gets back?
[03:41] <Kamion> he can fill us in later
[03:41] <jono> ok
[03:41] <jono> so, Belgian team
[03:41] <looksaus> ok...
[03:42] <jono> the application looks excellent
[03:42] <JanC> here  :)
[03:42] <Swaps> here
[03:42] <looksaus> have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeamApprovalApplication
[03:42] <jono> how is leadership in the team folks?
[03:43] <looksaus> officially, at the beginning, there was Lionel "ploum" Dricot
[03:43] <looksaus> he got quite a few ubuntu-minded people together in february 2006
[03:44] <JanC> (during FOSDEM)
[03:44] <looksaus> at FOSDEM, a free and open source developer meeting
[03:44] <looksaus> he seemed to have little spare time and things
[03:44] <jono> right
[03:45] <JanC> so now looksaus is pulling us forward  :)
[03:45] <looksaus> so in may, I brought people together for preparing press attention for the Dapper release and things
[03:45] <looksaus> Lionel seems to like that
[03:45] <looksaus> for the little we've still heard of him
[03:45] <jono> so it sounds like a happy relationship
[03:45] <looksaus> yes
[03:45] <jono> well its a +1 for me
[03:46] <jono> you guys some to be doing a rocking job
[03:46] <looksaus> heh, thx...
[03:47] <Kamion> the Belgian team has been around for a long time, and I've never heard any complaints
[03:47] <Kamion> the support points map is a neat idea and seems to have a fair bit of participation; great
[03:47] <MagicFab> looksaus, what is the licence of the maps / support app ?
[03:47] <looksaus> free software, of course, with an invitation for other teams to join in on the development
[03:48] <looksaus> https://launchpad.net/people/mapdevs/+branch/support.points.map/dev
[03:48] <MagicFab> looksaus, it would be nice to make that clear either on lp or the site (or both)
[03:48] <jono> could I encourage the belgian team to write about the support points map on loco-contacts so other groups can set up a similar thing
[03:48] <looksaus> jono, have done so already
[03:48] <JanC> of course
[03:48] <looksaus> :)
[03:48] <jono> oh cool :)
[03:48] <looksaus> you were on holiday
[03:48] <jono> is there a HOWTO of how to do it?
[03:49] <looksaus> the code behind the running thing is really simple, but a bit messy
[03:49] <Kamion> worth getting somebody to package it, maybe
[03:49] <jono> ok, we can discuss this later :)
[03:49] <JanC> currently there is the old, currently running code and the new version which is not ready yet
[03:49] <jono> elmo, thoughts on the belgian approval?
[03:49] <looksaus> what's there on new code is very clean, with clear use cases behind it
[03:50] <looksaus> it's almost ready for general use in other locoteams
[03:51] <MagicFab> looksaus, that URL doesn't offer a package, nor the licence in a clear way, would love to see that (for use in 2 locoteams I help with)
[03:51] <looksaus> ah, maybe a bit special about our locoteam is that we would like to have JanC
[03:51] <looksaus> as our main locoteams contact
[03:51] <elmo> jono: looks fine to me
[03:51] <looksaus> so no me
[03:51] <elmo> sorry, was afk
[03:51] <jono> can we do the pakistani team now as fouadbajwa must leave for prayers in 20 mins
[03:51] <looksaus> so not me...
[03:51] <fouadbajwa> hi again
[03:52] <jono> ok we will wait for sabdfl's views until he returns
[03:52] <Kamion> looksaus: shouldn't be a problem
[03:52] <fouadbajwa> sure
[03:52] <looksaus> k, thx
[03:52] <elmo> jono: I think we can assume loco teams are ok with the 3 of us
[03:52] <Kamion> looksaus: you're Mark van den Borre?
[03:52] <looksaus> yes
[03:52] <jono> ok
[03:52] <jono> elmo, sounds cool
[03:53] <jono> this approval application is astonishingly detailed
[03:53] <fouadbajwa> we got Ubuntu rolling with 4800 certified Ubuntu Linux users in the market endorsed by the Government of Pakistan, Government of Punjab, University of the Punjab
[03:53] <jsgotangco> 4800 wow
[03:53] <fouadbajwa> 215,000 Free CDs rolling in the market
[03:54] <fouadbajwa> and we did a visit to CD vendors
[03:54] <looksaus> sponsored by local government?
[03:54] <fouadbajwa> place boxes everywhere
[03:54] <fouadbajwa> yes
[03:54] <jsgotangco> double wow
[03:54] <fouadbajwa> The Govt of Pak and the Pakistan Telecommunications Authority and the Higher Education Commission are considering Ubuntu to be loaded into the government
[03:54] <jono> fouadbajwa, tell us about leadership
[03:55] <fouadbajwa> We have two leaders at the moment, since i am in Punjab in the provincial capital, the other team leader is for translation l10n Urdu
[03:55] <MagicFab> fouadbajwa, is there any difference between work done/endorsed by fossfp.org and the Loco Team itself ?
[03:55] <fouadbajwa> we are now starting 2 meetups atleast per month
[03:55] <fouadbajwa> from my city first
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> i have been able to form a consortium of companies to participate
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> ISVs are on our hitlist
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> Mark advised me to focus on ISVs when he visited us in January this year
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> 8000 telecenters are also in pipeline
[03:56] <jsgotangco> does the locoteam itself = fossfp.org?
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> no
[03:56] <fouadbajwa> FOSSFP is just an enabler
[03:57] <fouadbajwa> a voluntary associate of Scholars, Govt people, Students, Professional users
[03:57] <fouadbajwa> they push anything thats FOSS
[03:57] <fouadbajwa> working with the United Nations
[03:57] <fouadbajwa> at civil society level
[03:57] <jono> fouadbajwa, there seems to be an awful lot of ideas, but how many get achieved?
[03:57] <fouadbajwa> but have heavy influence in govts and all
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> most of them are already achieved, not ideas, i have sent in reports
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> and the canonical team has met with the govt leaders and IT industry
[03:58] <jono> right
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> we are now supporting the ecosystem through making available
[03:58] <jono> fouadbajwa, any problems in the group?
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> technical support and more participation in localization efforts
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> a bit
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> Urdu
[03:58] <fouadbajwa> not many people speak english
[03:59] <jono> any conflicts with other members?
[03:59] <fouadbajwa> and software piracy
[03:59] <fouadbajwa> there are some conflicts that get settled with communication
[03:59] <jono> right
[03:59] <fouadbajwa> and the result of a recent one has been that the member was allowed leadership so that he could experience the real issues
[03:59] <jono> well this looks all very good to me
[03:59] <fouadbajwa> its better to let them take lead
[03:59] <jono> I know fouadbajwa has worked very hard
[03:59] <fouadbajwa> and see it for themselves
[04:00] <jono> so its a +1 for me
[04:00] <fouadbajwa> i would also like to mention here
[04:00] <fouadbajwa> that our region is south asia
[04:00] <elmo> ack from me too
[04:00] <MagicFab> Pardon my intrusion, but I don't see anything explicitly defining a Loco team for Pakistan vs. FPSSFP.org + Canonical. See: http://www.fossfp.org/ubuntupakistan
[04:00] <fouadbajwa> Magic that is very old information from last year
[04:01] <fouadbajwa> we were then advised from Canonical and the Ubuntu community to take the team out in the public
[04:01] <fouadbajwa> i will have fossfp remove that information
[04:01] <jono> fouadbajwa, how does FOSSWP and ubuntu-pk differ?
[04:01] <fouadbajwa> as it is no valid now
[04:01] <MagicFab> Ubuntu is about more than "just open source / free software" which would seem to go agains FOSSFP.org mission / objectives. Can that be clarified ? We have similar issues for local groups here (QC, Canada)
[04:01] <jsgotangco> just a question, how does fossfp and iosn south asia cooperate at the moment (i know its pretty OT)
[04:01] <fouadbajwa> like i said FOSSFP only housed the team for a few days during the national FOSS awareness campaign
[04:01] <fouadbajwa> giving us 600 computers, 600 volunteers and 22 Ubuntu trainres
[04:02] <fouadbajwa> after that it was moved out of the University and has been operating independently building more community members from the open
[04:02] <fouadbajwa> now within the meetups from november
[04:03] <fouadbajwa> we will be engaging at an average 10 new members per month
[04:03] <fouadbajwa> and as the telecenter initiative rolls out
[04:03] <jsgotangco> for all its worth a lot of ubuntu advocacy has been done for sure
[04:03] <MagicFab> fouadbajwa, I feel it needs clarification unless today you are proposing to forma a distinct, independent group not necessarily 100% aligned with FOSSP.org
[04:03] <fouadbajwa> we can imagine the number of Ubuntu system admins
[04:03] <fouadbajwa> Magic, there is no FOSSFP any more with Ubuntu-pk
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> it only supported it
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> in terms of infrastructure and advocacy
[04:04] <MagicFab> fouadbajwa, that sound great! So it's only misunderstanding from outdated info.
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> FOSSFP is a UNCTAD partner for developing world countries
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> it works in all of south asia
[04:04] <elmo> fouadbajwa: Jane Silber has some concerns about the language on that page WRT Canonical - could you be sure to coordinate with her about getting those resolved?
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> i only do reports for them now
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> no official status
[04:04] <elmo> (the FOSSFP page, I mean)
[04:04] <fouadbajwa> yes elmo
[04:05] <elmo> fouadbajwa: ok, good, thanks
[04:05] <fouadbajwa> i am sending a note to fossfp for complete removal
[04:05] <MagicFab> I also think FOSSFP.org and ubuntu-pk.org badly need updating before getting any official team status.
[04:05] <fouadbajwa> and if there are any more issues, they will meet resolution immediately
[04:05] <fouadbajwa> yes Jono and Mathew are working with me
[04:05] <fouadbajwa> since we had no Moin Moin expertise
[04:05] <fouadbajwa> we have ported to drupal
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> we are working on the drupal site now
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> smurf has been notified about the new dns changes
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> that will soon point to the new ubuntu-pk.org
[04:06] <MagicFab> ubuntu-pk.org has 0 content, so I guess there are plans to move things there eventually
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> and u will all be pleased to see Ubuntu in full bloom
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> oh
[04:06] <fouadbajwa> if you can make host changes to your host file, i will give you the IP of the new siet
[04:07] <fouadbajwa> site, that should be pointed to the new settings within this week
[04:07] <MagicFab> fouadbajwa, no rush, just asking.
[04:07] <fouadbajwa> Jono can u back the detail of the ubuntu-pk.org that Mathew and i have been ccing :)
[04:07] <jono> yes
[04:07] <fouadbajwa> no problems Magic, i am here to clarify anything
[04:07] <jono> there has been some discussion about setting up the site
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> the theme has been contributed from Ubuntu Chicago
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> wiki has been loaded by the Ubuntu webmaster
[04:08] <jono> fouadbajwa, so all of the experience and roadmap on the application is part of ubuntu-pk?
[04:08] <jsgotangco> heh the universal ubuntu drupal theme heh
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> yes, no more fossfp :)
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> yeah great work Chicago
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> !
[04:08] <fouadbajwa> fabulous
[04:09] <fouadbajwa> and more teams have also shared there themes, there should be a wiki ;page on ubuntu with all these themes
[04:09] <jono> fouadbajwa, ok if you can state for the record that this is all part of ubuntu-pk, then this is fine with me
[04:09] <elmo> Kamion: what do you think?
[04:09] <fouadbajwa> yes this is all Ubuntu-pk
[04:09] <jsgotangco> fouadbajwa: it just so happened that we were on the same server so we shared the theme from the beginning
[04:09] <MagicFab> I am just worried that you're putting all the weight of FOSSFP in your application and it's not clear how bot relate(d). But if there's been other comm. I miseed, I can see how it's evolved.
[04:10] <fouadbajwa> they were just supporting Magic nothing else
[04:10] <fouadbajwa> they are a consortium of a large number of FOSS activists and researchers
[04:10] <fouadbajwa> and just contributing local Ubuntu CDs
[04:10] <fouadbajwa> and software mirrors
[04:11] <fouadbajwa> you can check within one week, no information on Ubuntu association will be there
[04:13] <Kamion> elmo: happy to go with jono here, if the FOSSFP confusion is sorted out
[04:13] <Kamion> and ubuntu-pk.org is fixed
[04:13] <MagicFab> I don't say everything ubuntu should disappear from their servers/site, quite the tcontrary. Just that the relationship between both is not clear to any new potential loco members.
[04:13] <fouadbajwa> will be sorted out within these 7 days,
[04:14] <jono> ok, lets wait for it to be fixed and then I will approve
[04:14] <fouadbajwa> mailing list and ubuntu pages have been requested for removal
[04:14] <fouadbajwa> could this approval then be just based on email notification and show of cause through www.fossfp.org?
[04:14] <gnomefreak> just a reminder next meeting is in 45 minutes.
[04:16] <jono> fouadbajwa,I think the general opinion is that we wan to see the changeover happen first and then there will approval
[04:17] <fouadbajwa> thats what i mean, when i get there email that they have resolved the issue, i will notify you through email
[04:17] <fouadbajwa> and you can check there website so forth
[04:18] <jono> sure
[04:18] <jono> sounds good
[04:18] <jono> if all is resolved, we can then approve
[04:18] <jono> if the CC are happy with this, I am :)
[04:18] <elmo> fine by me
[04:18] <fouadbajwa> sure okay :) sent out them the email request :)
[04:18] <elmo> ok, so shall we move then?
[04:19] <elmo> member candidates...
[04:19] <elmo> JohanLundmark sebastean (September 23) - here?
[04:19] <fouadbajwa> okay guys thanks and bye, i have to leave for prayers
[04:20] <jono> thanks fouadbajwa
[04:20] <elmo> Andrew Hodgkinson (September 26) - here?
[04:21] <elmo> Michael Bienia geser (October 11) - here?
[04:21] <lophyte> go geser :)
[04:21] <elmo> geser: go ahead with your intro?
[04:22] <geser> sure
[04:22] <geser> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelBienia
[04:22] <geser> LP: https://launchpad.net/people/geser
[04:22] <geser> My name is Michael Bienia. I'm 26 years old and live in Dortmund, Germany.
[04:22] <geser> I'm using Ubuntu since the development cycle of breezy but only started in august 2006 to also contribute to Ubuntu.
[04:22] <geser> Since than I was fixing packages with unmet deps and doing sync and merges for packages in universe. crimsun sponsored my uploads and also reviewed my sync requests.
[04:22] <geser> Currently I'm also mentoring/advising lophyte on MOTU work
[04:23] <geser> questions?
[04:23] <elmo> any MOTUs want to comment/cheerlead for geser?
[04:24] <lophyte> I'm not a MOTU, but I can say that geser has done an awesome job helping me out with getting into MOTU work
[04:24] <lophyte> he's been very helpful in bringing me up to date on the swing of things, so to speak
[04:24] <MagicFab> geser, I don't see that you have signe the code of conduct in LP ?
[04:24] <elmo> Hobbsee: how were the uploads?
[04:25] <elmo> magicfab: Ubuntero:  Yes  <-- means he has
[04:26] <Hobbsee> elmo: mostly good.  there were a few errors, but most were fine.  geser's quick to fix any of them though
[04:26] <elmo> ok, well, I'm pretty happy, there's a lot of packages here in a realtively short period of time
[04:27] <elmo> Kamion/jono: what do you think?
[04:27] <Hobbsee> between him and fujitsu...they keep us busy :P
[04:27] <MagicFab> elmo: there would be a "Codes of conduct" entry in his page, which I don't see.
[04:27] <elmo> MagicFab: *shrug* I can see it?
[04:27] <elmo> magicfab: https://launchpad.net/people/geser/+codesofconduct
[04:28] <Kamion> I've been processing a certain amount of geser's work as an ubuntu-archive member and it's seemed well-organised
[04:28] <Kamion> he's been contributing for a reasonable amount of time too
[04:28] <Kamion> I'm happy
[04:29] <jono> sorry was on phone, reading up
[04:29] <jono> I don't know geser really
[04:30] <MagicFab> elmo: access to that page is restricted (so no menu entry), but thanks.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> jono: i would suspect that's because you havent really been in the same circles.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> jono: he's active in -motu, and -bugs - and the u-u-s, of course
[04:31] <jono> right
[04:35] <Hobbsee> (where the u-u-s is the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team)
[04:35] <culix> my name is Mario and it is the first time for me to visit a CC, but i can say that geser is also a good supporter in #ubuntu-de, always friendly and helpful, just my 2 cents
[04:36] <geser> I try to help in #ubuntu-de when I can
[04:36] <elmo> ok, so let's move on for now
[04:36] <elmo> geser: you've got a +2 from kamion and I, sabdfl will be checking the logs later to give you a quorate vote
[04:37] <geser> thanks
[04:37] <elmo> PaulSchulz pschulz01 (October 16)
[04:37] <pschulz01> Greetings all...
[04:37] <pschulz01> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz
[04:37] <pschulz01> 37 years, live in Adelaide, South Australia, and work as a Linux
[04:37] <pschulz01> System Adminsitator during the day.
[04:37] <pschulz01> I first appeared before the CC in May, and was asked to come back with
[04:37] <pschulz01> some more support. Since then, I have continued my involvement with
[04:37] <pschulz01> Ubuntu-Au, and have contributed to the translation and bug fixing
[04:37] <pschulz01> efforts (patches) for edgy, as well as well as keeping an eye on some
[04:37] <pschulz01> things like the 'Ubuntu Books' Wiki page.
[04:38] <pschulz01> Member of Ubuntu-Au, BugSquad and English Translation teams
[04:38] <pschulz01> Do I have any supported still here? (Just past midnight local time.)
[04:38] <elkbuntu> of course you do :)
[04:38] <elkbuntu> I cant speak highly enough of paul, he's an active and motivating member of ubuntu-au
[04:38] <bimberi> pschulz01 is an AustralianTeam stalwart and the initiator/carrier-through-er of many of its best initiatives - two being hassling local notebook suppliers to ship Ubuntu and getting computer shops to distribute Ubuntu CDs. With Paul it's not just "we should do this", it's "here's how I did it - and how you can too".
[04:39] <yama> I'm not a member (yet), but I've found pschulz01 to be quite helpful on IRC
[04:40] <elmo> pschulz01: ISTRecognise your name - have you applied before?
[04:40] <gnomefreak> elmo: he did in may and he was told to come back
[04:40] <elkbuntu> most of the cheersquad has gone to sleep i believe, but there were many other people who wanted to be here for paul.
[04:40] <siccness> :)
[04:40] <pschulz01> elmo: wiki: MeetingLogs/CC 2006-05-30
[04:41] <elmo> I can believe anyone fell asleep during a CC meeting?  it's so dynamic and fast paced
[04:41] <jsgotangco> well its the unholy hour for people in +1-
[04:41] <jsgotangco> +10
[04:41] <elkbuntu> it is 00:41 here
[04:42] <elmo> jsgotangco: yeah, I was being sarcastic, don't mind me
[04:43] <pschulz01> I plan to continue my work with the Ubuntu-AU team.. Australia needs an alternative. I'm continutally amazed at the results that other teams are getting.. (Belgium, Pakistan for example :-)
[04:43] <elkbuntu> i believe paul has also done alot of work gettting ubuntu into his local community, especially with software freedom day last month
[04:43] <Hobbsee> elmo: *g*.  Someone should write a spec on it active participation in meetings by the respective quorums :P
[04:44] <pschulz01> Any questions?
[04:45] <elmo> any bugswaud people able to vouch for pschulz01?
[04:45] <elmo> squad too
[04:45] <gnomefreak> he has done alot of triaging since may/juneish
[04:46] <gnomefreak> im happy with the work he has done :)
[04:49] <elmo> ok, well, I'm happy based on vouching from team-au and the bugsqaud team and the fact that he had the persistence to come back ;-
[04:49] <elmo> )
[04:49] <Kamion> I'm fine with pschulz01 for the -au-based advocacy if nothing else
[04:49] <elkbuntu> yeah.. persistant.. he's definatly that :)
[04:50] <elmo> jono: any comments?
[04:50] <Kamion> can I fill in my comments on the other two applicants afterwards? I *have* to get to the post office before closing time and there are a number of things I need to do there
[04:50] <jono> sounds good to me :)
[04:51] <jono> I have good things about pschulz01
[04:51] <elmo> Kamion: sure
[04:51] <looksaus> yama, your turn :)
[04:51] <jono> also we need to start the loco meet soon
[04:51] <Hobbsee> Kamion: bang down the door after hours instead :P
[04:51] <elmo> jono: define soon?
[04:51] <elmo> pschulz01: ok, you've got +2, once you get +1 from sabdfl or mako later, it'll become official
[04:51] <yama> thanks looksaus
[04:51] <jono> well its due to start in 8mins
[04:52] <elkbuntu> jono, yes.. we do.. in 8 minutes according to my time :-/
[04:52] <jono> night pschulz01 :)
[04:52] <siccness> Night mate!
[04:52] <elkbuntu> night paul :)
[04:52] <yama> cya paul
[04:53] <looksaus> yama, ?
[04:53] <jono> should we defer the remaining members till the next meet or just overrun?
[04:54] <jono> I understand people have stuck around for these members
[04:54] <yama> I'd like to have a go, if possible
[04:54] <jono> ok
[04:54] <yama> thanks
[04:54] <yama> Firstly, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SridharDhanapalan
[04:54] <yama> and https://launchpad.net/people/lordyama
[04:54] <gnomefreak> jono: weve overrun an hour already and we have another meeting in like 6 minutes :)
[04:55] <jono> gnomefreak, I know :)
[04:55] <yama> (Sorry if I sound like I'm rushing. I've stayed up for this. It's almost 1am here in Sydney)
[04:55] <jono> we could always start the loco meeting in another chan
[04:56] <elkbuntu> Yama's active in the ubuntu-au community
[04:56] <bimberi> Huge \o/ from me for yama's efforts to coordinate "Queen's English" (ie. en-GB derived) translation. en-GB is >95% complete for Dapper and would be nowhere near that without his efforts to gather resources and bring the different translation groups together. It has been a determined effort over a number of months and achieved with a minimum of angst amongst some very pedantic people. A sustained and significant contribution (imo
[04:56] <bimberi> :-) ).
[04:56] <elkbuntu> I can assure the CC that TheMuso intended to support him, but it seems that we lost him
 Ok. I have a statement about Yama ready. :) <-- i never saw the statement though
[04:57] <Hobbsee> TheMuso went to bed hours ago
[04:57] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i figured so
[04:57] <yama> yes, he couldn't stay up
[04:57] <yama> I'm an active member of ubuntu-au.
[04:58] <yama> I spend most of my time doing translations for en_GB, because it forms the root of many derivatives like en_AU, en_NZ and so on
[04:58] <elmo> erm, stupid question, but what do translations for en_GB involve?
[04:58] <elmo> changing color to colour?
[04:59] <Hobbsee> elmo: i believe so
[04:59] <yama> much more than that, actually
[04:59] <yama> there are more subtle things like punctuation differences
[04:59] <gnomefreak> lol
[04:59] <yama> and we needed to settle on some different terminologies, which has required co-ordination with upstream en_GB groups
[05:00] <bimberi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[05:00] <yama> I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation to guide our efforts
[05:00] <bimberi> :)
[05:00] <yama> yep, thanks bimberi :)
[05:01] <yama> I have turned the en_GB group into an International English one
[05:01] <yama> it is mostly en_GB, but we take derivatives into consideration when picking words/terms to use
[05:02] <yama> there is a lot of work 'herding cats', so to speak
[05:02] <jono> ok
[05:02] <jono> any other comments from people?
[05:03] <elmo> looks ok to me
[05:04] <jono> fine to me
[05:04] <jono> Kamion, and sabdfl_afk are waiting till later right?
[05:04] <elmo> tho, and no disrespect intended, I'm surprised people find translating to en_GB... worth the effort it must involved?
[05:04] <elmo> s/d?/?/
[05:04] <yama> language is an important part of culture
[05:04] <elmo> esp. since AFAIK rosetta can't do "this string doesn't need translated"
[05:04] <elmo> jono: right
[05:05] <jono> ok one more to do right?
[05:05] <elmo> so shall we move on, and defer the remaining person till next week?  the
[05:05] <looksaus> me...
[05:05] <looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
[05:05] <elmo> so shall we move on, and defer the remaining person till next meeting - they only applied today anyway
[05:05] <yama> elmo: we have a wonderful greasemonkey script to help us
[05:05] <jono> right
[05:05] <jono> thanks folks :)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> impressive.  another 3 hour meeting.
[05:05] <elmo> looksaus: would you mind waiting?  sorry, it's just been a very long meeting
[05:05] <looksaus> sure...
[05:05] <looksaus> or should I paste here for the logs
[05:05] <looksaus> ?
[05:06] <yama> thanks for your time, everyone
[05:06] <jono> looksaus, could you make a wiki page
[05:06] <jono> we need to start the loco meeting really
[05:06] <looksaus> I already did, just pasted it
[05:06] <jono> ahhh thats cool then :)
[05:06] <looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
[05:06] <nixternal> i think the CC needs to take the first 5 applicants at each meeting
[05:06] <jono> nixternal, agreed, these meetings are too long
[05:06] <jono> right LoCo meeting
[05:06] <nixternal> they are crazy...your butt goes numb waiting :)
[05:06] <jono> who is here for the loco meeting?
[05:07] <looksaus> me...
[05:07] <elkbuntu> me
[05:07] <looksaus> :)
[05:07] <technolalia> and me
[05:07] <craigaa> me
[05:07] <nixternal> i guess i am now that i am awake
[05:07] <Kuyaedz> me
[05:07] <MagicFab> me
[05:07] <thoreauputic> bimberi has suggested that applicants and speakers should go in time-zone order - seems a good idea to me
[05:07] <Ekushey> me too
[05:07] <nixternal> jeesh
[05:07] <jono> the LoCo army steps forth :)
[05:07] <nixternal> no doubt
[05:07] <craigaa> looks like a good turnout
[05:07] <bimberi> yes, i've emailed the CC list
[05:07] <Ekushey> :)
[05:07] <nixternal> seems teh chicago guys are sleeping off last nights big win on monday night football still
[05:08] <nixternal> that or they have a life and are at work right now
[05:08] <Kuyaedz> nixternal: there is life outside ubuntu? ;)
[05:08] <nixternal> so i have heard
[05:08] <jono> ok see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
[05:08] <jono> thats our agenda
[05:08] <jono> first is docs
[05:08] <nixternal> wo0t..
[05:08] <jono> I will explain my thoughts on this
[05:08] <nixternal> jono: if you need doc help, im here for ya
[05:09] <jono> nixternal, :)
[05:09] <nixternal> since i do edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu, ichthux, and kde docs, i can fit ya in
[05:09] <jono> as many of you have seen, I have revamped the LoCo pages a bit, and produced the FAQ updated the HOWTO and other things
[05:09] <sivang> hi jono
[05:09] <jono> I think we need to focus the LoCo teams to get lots more written
[05:09] <jono> hey siccness
[05:09] <jono> oops
[05:09] <jono> hey sivang
[05:09] <jono> :)
[05:09] <sivang> heh
[05:10] <jono> I think we need all aspects of running a team documented where possible
[05:10] <nixternal> jsgotangco: missed a hell of a bears game last night :)
[05:10] <jono> so, I was thinking we should have a LoCo Doc Day
[05:10] <nixternal> good idea
[05:10] <siccness> hmm?
[05:10] <jono> pick a day and everyone write a bunch of docs
[05:10] <technolalia> what docs do the loco teams need?
[05:10] <Belutz> I'm back
[05:10] <looksaus> technolalia, how do I organise a computer fair booth
[05:10] <jono> technolalia, how to run a team, common questions, dealing with problems, leadership issues, loco structure etc
[05:10] <jono> the docs need to be best practice
[05:11] <looksaus> could be a nice subject
[05:11] <jono> looksaus, exactly
[05:11] <jono> to best manage this I was gonna propose a call for ideas and we can go from there
[05:11] <jono> today I just wanted to mainly set a date
[05:11] <rejden> would be good, if we can follow some template
[05:11] <nixternal> if anyone is interested http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/index.html there is the ubuntu documentation styling guide...a little outdated, but has some good information in it, to help keep consistancy
[05:11] <lophyte> ooo, loco meeting started
[05:11] <lophyte> heya all :)
[05:11] <jono> I was thinking of Fri 27th
[05:11] <looksaus> lophyte, yes, you just missed pschulz01
[05:12] <jono> so is the 27th oct good for you folks?
[05:13] <MagicFab> jono: great work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
[05:13] <elkbuntu> not for me personally
[05:13] <jono> MagicFab, thanks :)
[05:13] <lophyte> works for me, jono
[05:13] <JanC> jono: I think a 1 day event will never fit everybody ?
[05:13] <Kuyaedz> no objections here
[05:13] <Belutz> sorry, what's on 27th oct ?
[05:13] <MagicFab> jono, may I suggest new Loco teams should be presented here before going to the CC ?
[05:13] <jono> MagicFab, we will discuss that in a sec
[05:13] <jono> Belutz, loco docs day
[05:13] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, how about you wait
[05:13] <nixternal> 27th == LoCo Doc Day, 28th == Ubuntu Chicago Conference, 29th == CoDLUG Conference....all of which i am documenting....that will be one heck of a weekend ;) <-- winky
[05:13] <jono> ok how about Tues 31st?
[05:13] <MagicFab> ok
[05:14] <nixternal> ooh, the 31st sounds swell
[05:14] <jono> I think it would be good to get elkbuntu there
[05:14] <Belutz> jono, ah i see
[05:14] <lophyte> 31st works too.
[05:14] <jono> wickeeed :)
[05:14] <jono> ok I will mail loco-contacts about this later
[05:14] <rejden> sorry, 28 - 31 days off
[05:14] <elkbuntu> jono, you're picking bad dates for me :(
[05:14] <jono> elkbuntu, oh really?
[05:14] <jono> bugger
[05:14] <jono> elkbuntu, when are goo ddates?
[05:15] <jono> elkbuntu, when are good dates?
[05:15] <craigaa> no date will work for everyone, we just need to find one that suits most
[05:15] <lophyte> I'm flexible.. any date works for me, really
[05:15] <elkbuntu> jono, the time is more to the point of my flexibility
[05:15] <jono> sure, but I think elkbuntu is such a prominant member that the first event should really have a bunch of prominant members there to be a success
[05:15] <jenda> are there minutes?
[05:15] <jono> ok, well lets stick with the 31st for now
[05:16] <jono> we can arrange more in the future
[05:16] <jono> ok with everyone?
[05:16] <elkbuntu> yes
[05:16] <Kuyaedz> weekends work best for me for getting results, no pesky work to distract me.
[05:16] <lophyte> yup
[05:16] <JanC> jono: why not invite people to write such docs, and then if we have some pick a date to enhance them ?
[05:16] <jono> jenda, CC meeting?
[05:16] <Kuyaedz> yes
[05:16] <technolalia> 31st is okay for me
[05:16] <craigaa> works for me
[05:16] <jenda> jono: both :)
[05:16] <jenda> jono: But I meant the LoCo.
[05:16] <jono> JanC,  I think we need a data to encourage people to begin writing docs, but I see your point :)
[05:17] <jono> jenda, we just started this meeting
[05:17] <jenda> ah ok :)
[05:17] <jenda> In that case, jono, I will miss it :-D
[05:17] <jono> another point to discuss, not on the agenda, are regular meetings
[05:17] <jono> I am thinking we should back this slot every two weeks
[05:17] <lophyte> agreed
[05:17] <jono> but adjust the time of the meeting to hit the right timezones
[05:17] <jenda> agreed.
[05:17] <lophyte> every two weeks is good
[05:17] <elkbuntu> jono, i think it also needs to be before the CC, not after it :)
[05:18] <lophyte> haha
[05:18] <craigaa> lol
[05:18] <jono> elkbuntu, hehe yeag
[05:18] <jono> yeah
[05:18] <jenda> (It'll be hard to find timezones for a group that is by definition evenly spread around the world.
[05:18] <jenda> )
[05:18] <elkbuntu> jenda, we decided in first meeting to alternate focus
[05:18] <jono> jenda, sure, so I was thinking of very early GMT and late GMT
[05:18] <Kuyaedz> two weeks is fine, just be sure to update us on the mailing list on the times
[05:18] <jono> that should be convenient for *most*
[05:18] <Belutz> for the timezones, why don't just rotate it?
[05:18] <jono> Kuyaedz, sure
[05:18] <craigaa> yes
[05:19] <nixternal> i am awake all hours of the day...i goto bed when the UTC strikes work time, and I wake up when the UTC get off of work :)
[05:19] <jenda> jono: yes, that seems to have proven best for other meetings too.
[05:19] <craigaa> I would then be able to make one meeting every four weeks
[05:19] <jono> yeah
[05:19] <craigaa> if we alternate timeframes
[05:19] <jono> so we can flick between the two times and everyone gets a meeting a month
[05:19] <rejden> in favor for rotating timezones
[05:19] <jono> I, get late nights and early mornings :P
[05:19] <lophyte> I think that works best
[05:19] <jenda> Is there a meeting agenda somewhere? (Sorry for ignorance)
[05:19] <elkbuntu> that was the plan. then you went on holidays :)
[05:19] <looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
[05:19] <jono> jenda, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
[05:20] <jono> looksaus, beat me to it :P
[05:20] <jono> elkbuntu, eh?
[05:20] <jenda> thx
[05:20] <elkbuntu> jono, your frolic in florida
[05:20] <jono> hehe
[05:20] <elkbuntu> aaanyway
[05:21] <jono> ok, so thats cool we have a docs day sorted and regular meetings
[05:21] <jono> any other comments or views?
[05:21] <Kuyaedz> making better time than the CC meeting ;)
[05:21] <jenda> hehe
[05:21] <craigaa> :-)
[05:21] <jono> yes, I am keen to keep everything on track and zip through stuff where needed
[05:21] <jenda> This time is perfect for me, except there happens to be a conference today I want to attend.
[05:22] <jono> ok lets talk edgy CDs
[05:22] <jono> let me fill you in with the Canonical situation
[05:22] <elkbuntu> jenda, you're excused so long as you pass out ubuntu cds :)
[05:22] <rejden> so what is the proposal?
[05:22] <jenda> elkbuntu: indeed :) Fortunately, ondrej has just joined for the Czech team too.
[05:22] <jono> *all* approved teams will get a mix of 500 Edgy CDs
[05:23] <jono> that is the stock number of CDs planned to be sent out to teams
[05:23] <rejden> mix, means ku and edubuntu included as well?
[05:23] <Ekushey> jono: ubuntu-bd is *half* approved for now. will we get it too?
[05:23] <Belutz> jono: variant and platform mix?
[05:23] <jono> Ubuntu:
[05:23] <jono> PC    300
[05:23] <jono> AMD64 50
[05:23] <jono> Kubuntu:
[05:23] <jono> PC    75
[05:23] <jono> AMD64 25
[05:23] <jono> Edubuntu:
[05:23] <jono> PC    50
[05:24] <jono> Ekushey, we can discuss that later, we can arrange something I am sure :)
[05:24] <looksaus> jono, and how about Dapper shipments?
[05:24] <JanC> nu PowerPC ?
[05:24] <elkbuntu> no ppc?
[05:24] <lophyte> Dapper is through shipit.
[05:24] <jono> dapper is still done via shipit
[05:24] <MagicFab> jono: won't that make several teams rush to be approved ? i see the backlog :)
[05:24] <looksaus> because I got a bit confused
[05:24] <ondrej> while we are here...  is somebody here who could pay for ubuntu.cz domain name?  seems mail with invoice got lost and ubuntu.cz payment is due
[05:24] <looksaus> oh, k, wasn't clear to me
[05:24] <Ekushey> jono: ok, thanks
[05:24] <jono> more on the backlog later :P
[05:24] <rejden> would be possible to get some edgy PPC as well somehow?
[05:24] <rejden> like 20 or something
[05:24] <jono> now this is the dilemma:
[05:25] <jono> (rejden, not sure about PPC CDs btw)
[05:25] <craigaa> is it possible to customise for each team?
[05:25] <rejden> same question as craigaa
[05:25] <jono> we want to get details from all those teams who want CDs but we don't want stacks and stack of seperate emails
[05:25] <jono> naturally though, most teams won't want to update a wiki page with their postal address
[05:25] <jsgotangco> brb
[05:26] <jenda> jono, understandable... but how do that?
[05:26] <jono> so I have been trying to figure something out, but I think mailing in will be the only way
[05:26] <jono> there seems no clear and simple solution
[05:26] <jenda> jono, perhaps a private, passworded gobby session would work :)
[05:26] <looksaus> jono, I'm not sure we even _want_ edgy CD's...
[05:26] <Mirv> should gpg be required?
[05:26] <rejden> yes, mailing seems the only way, or web formular and mailing from it
[05:26] <jono> so I am gonna talk to Marilize and figure out something
[05:26] <elkbuntu> jono, i'd volunteer to be victim of the emails and collate the information
[05:26] <rejden> looksaus, maybe you don't need
[05:26] <jono> looksaus, not all teams will want them, thats why people will request them
[05:26] <Belutz> are stickers also included? :)
[05:26] <Mirv> i think all the locoteams (should) have a gpg key in launchpad etc.
[05:26] <jono> elkbuntu, the problem is of privacy
[05:26] <jenda> Belutz: I can send you some ;)
[05:27] <jono> elkbuntu, but thanks, maybe we can figure something out
[05:27] <Belutz> jenda: wow, thanks :)
[05:27] <jono> Mirv, thats not a bad idea - an encryped address
[05:27] <technolalia> with addresses, is it a case of someone volunteering to receive cds at their home address on behalf of the loco?
[05:27] <jono> technolalia, yep
[05:27] <rejden> technolalia, seems so
[05:27] <craigaa> yes
[05:27] <elkbuntu> technolalia, very few locos have premises
[05:27] <jono> thats how it normally works
[05:27] <MagicFab> jono: wikipages or LP pages can be restricted in access, can't they ?
[05:27] <rejden> jono, I won't make my private adress public
[05:28] <jono> MagicFab, yes
[05:28] <jono> tobe honest, I am thinking emails with specific headers an a mail filter are the best thing to do
[05:28] <jono> dealing with GPG or locked pages is a pain in the ass
[05:28] <lophyte> jono: I have a question regarding CD shipments but its not really related to the loco meeting.. can I talk to you afterward about it?
[05:28] <ondrej> I have no problem exposing my work address...
[05:28] <jono> lophyte, sure! :)
[05:28] <MagicFab> I guess each team should have a LP /wiki page and be able to restrict its access (for priivacy), make that part of the process to be approved (if CDs requires)
[05:28] <lophyte> alright
[05:28] <jono> in the future I would like LP modified to handle this
[05:28] <rejden> MagicFab, too complicated
[05:28] <jono> this will be discussed at the UDS
[05:28] <Kuyaedz> jono: mail filters probably sounds best.  easiest to sort through anyway
[05:29] <craigaa> It should be possible to flag ship[it users as loco contacts
[05:29] <jono> ok, well I will get onto it
[05:29] <jono> so, any questions about Edgy CDs? including lophyte if you like
[05:29] <looksaus> jono, sorry if I'm interrupting something else, but...
[05:29] <Kuyaedz> just let us know what subject to use :)
[05:29] <jono> Kuyaedz, yeah
[05:29] <jono> looksaus, ...
[05:29] <MagicFab> rejden, I mean, Loco contacts know *at least* how to edit /create Wiki/LP pages...
[05:29] <lophyte> jono: actually, its a question about shipit
[05:29] <looksaus> the policy about edgy is that it is for people who like to be at the cutting edge, right
[05:29] <looksaus> ?
[05:29] <Kuyaedz> would hate to have our teams request funneled off to the spam folder
[05:29] <technolalia> how are national loco teams to distribute the cds round their country?
[05:30] <rejden> MagicFab, they should :)
[05:30] <elkbuntu> technolalia, that's for each country to figure out i guess
[05:30] <jono> looksaus, edgy is not LTS, so is not supported, but includes more up to date software
[05:30] <lophyte> technolalia: have chapters in localities?
[05:30] <jono> dapper is still recommended for long term supported sites
[05:30] <MagicFab> technolalia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuInLibraries
[05:30] <JanC> jono: "not supported" ?
[05:30] <Belutz> technolalia, my plan for my country is to send some CD's into local LUG and Universities
[05:30] <jono> JanC, no long term support afaik
[05:31] <jono> will be supported for a few years but not the five years like dapper
[05:31] <JanC> yes, but there is short time support, I hope :)
[05:31] <looksaus> mustn't it be made very clear that we should pitch these edgy cd's to the more advanced users then
[05:31] <jono> JanC, oh yes :)
[05:31] <JanC> 1.5 years IIRC
[05:31] <jono> technolalia, distribution of CDs is up to you guys :P
[05:31] <MagicFab> jono,  hopefully the artwork makes it clear full reproduction is permitted /granted, if all proprietary software included permits to do so.
[05:31] <Mirv> looksaus: I think it should be fine for any home user, just not companies
[05:31] <Kuyaedz> I don't consider Edgy for "advanced users", but it isn't LTS like Dapper
[05:31] <craigaa> I see most edgy cds going to lugs
[05:32] <jono> MagicFab, there is no propreiatary software in edgy
[05:32] <jono> MagicFab, not sure of the art, not seen it yet
[05:32] <JanC> yeah, LTS is for rusty companies with 3-year-plans and the like  :)
[05:32] <looksaus> my question is this: I'm a bit reluctant to pitch edgy to non-technical end users
[05:32] <lophyte> why?
[05:32] <jono> looksaus, why?
[05:32] <jono> thats are market
[05:32] <looksaus> because of the support thing...
[05:32] <jono> support thing?
[05:32] <looksaus> support cycle
[05:33] <lophyte> its supported for 1.5 years
[05:33] <Kuyaedz> looksaus: it isn't any more advanced than dapper, just not supported as long.
[05:33] <nixternal> it will still get 18 months of support
[05:33] <MagicFab> jono, no frmware, no restricted-modules... no commercial repos ?
[05:33] <Kuyaedz> looksaus: its still supported for 18months
[05:33] <Mirv> looksaus: edgy should be even easier than dapper for the people. it's supported for 18 months like everything before dapper, and it can easily be updated to a newer distribution version
[05:33] <jono> MagicFab, everything in edgy is free software
[05:33] <Kuyaedz> jono: coughfirefoxcough
[05:33] <jono> MagicFab, afaik it is fully redistributable
[05:33] <looksaus> and also it received new features that make it a bit more...edgy
[05:33] <lophyte> firefox won't be called firefox in edgy.
[05:33] <looksaus> it works like a charm here...
[05:33] <nixternal> firefox is free, the icon isn't
[05:33] <JanC> jono:  that's not the same  :)
[05:33] <Mirv> jono: does edgy not install restricted component, what?
[05:33] <lophyte> and thus is still free software
[05:34] <jono> JanC, eh?
[05:34] <elkbuntu> this is not a line of discussion appropriate for this meeting
[05:34] <jono> yes this is all offtopic
[05:34] <looksaus> but my point is that it gets messy when you still ship dapper to end users
[05:34] <lophyte> agreed, elkbuntu
[05:34] <Mirv> jono: it might be redistributable, but it's not free software when it comes to those ca. 5 packages in restricted
[05:34] <jono> lets get back onto CD availability
[05:34] <JanC> binary-only freeware is also fully redistributable
[05:34] <jono> please, lets move on...
[05:34] <jono> any other questions about edgy CDs?
[05:35] <Belutz> jono: do you know *when* the CD's are going to be process for shipping?
[05:35] <Kuyaedz> just the details. when & how do we contact you for shipping information?
[05:35] <jono> one sec phone
[05:35] <craigaa> has a price been set for edgy cds as yet?
[05:35] <looksaus> hm, while we have a few secs...
[05:35] <elkbuntu> i think any further discussion can be done on the mailing list, so it is better archived
[05:35] <nixternal> middle of november was the last date i heard
[05:36] <lophyte> hey nixternal, do you usually pay duties/taxes on your large CD shipments?
[05:36] <nixternal> nope
[05:36] <lophyte> what the heck..
[05:36] <jono> ack
[05:36] <jono> back
[05:36] <lophyte> I got an invoice yesterday, requiring me to pay $26.50 on my shipment of 160CDs
[05:36] <jono> Belutz, not sure when shipping will be
[05:36] <craigaa> I have to, unfortunately
[05:36] <nixternal> just received 2 big shipments for the conferences coming up...even got me a tux costume for some sucker to wear
[05:36] <jono> Kuyaedz, for contacts, contact Marilize
[05:37] <jono> craigaa, in terms of prices for sale, its being discussed at the moment
[05:37] <craigaa> k
[05:37] <Ekushey> lophyte: here in bangladesh, we need to pay good amount of tax for the cds as well
[05:37] <lophyte> jono: can I get a contact for marilize from you? I need to speak with her regarding a shipment
[05:37] <JanC> lophyte: I got an invoice for almost 30 EUR sales & import tax on the free powered by ubuntu stickers  :-(
[05:38] <lophyte> wow :\
[05:38] <jono> lophyte, best mailing the shipit info address on the shipit site - that goes to marilize I believe
[05:38] <lophyte> ah, alright.
[05:38] <jono> any other queries?
[05:38] <jono> we could do with getting this lot into the FAQ
[05:39] <elkbuntu> definately
[05:39] <MagicFab> There's info about taxes/duties at "Will I have to pay taxes/duties?" -> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq#head-7eef2db63e0a75424cdd663ee6f7b8eedcf19607
[05:39] <jono> this brings me onto another point
[05:39] <jono> I would love to see the FAQ filled to the brim with details
[05:39] <JanC> whether you have to pay taxes seems more like some sort of roulette to me
[05:40] <jono> if you discover or learn something that is not in thwe FAQ, please add it :)
[05:40] <elkbuntu> feel free to add suggestions you want us to answer
[05:40] <Belutz> brb
[05:40] <jono> cool
[05:40] <jono> just anything you think is missing mainly
[05:40] <jono> would be nice to see the FAQ grow over time :)
[05:41] <elkbuntu> especially considering neither jono nor i have quite mastered mind reading :)
[05:41] <jono> so, summing up edgy CDs I will speak to marilize and post to the list about everything
[05:41] <craigaa> k
[05:41] <jono> elkbuntu, nearly there...just getting it perfected... :P
[05:41] <jono> so, final point is the approval process
[05:41] <jono> in the last week I have refined this so LoCo teams need to make an approval wiki page for the CC to view
[05:42] <MagicFab> jono: just before that... will labels be available/.included in those 500 CD shipments / other stuff ?
[05:42] <jono> this should make approving teams easier
[05:42] <jono> MagicFab, labels?
[05:42] <MagicFab> jono: Ubuntu labels (like previously)
[05:42] <JanC> stickers ?  :)
[05:42] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, stickers?
[05:43] <MagicFab> eh, yeah, stickers :D
[05:43] <jono> no idea about stickers
[05:43] <jono> they are treated seperately to Cds though I think
[05:43] <MagicFab> ok, go
[05:43] <jono> I will check into it
[05:44] <jono> so, I have made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved to streamline the process
[05:44] <jono> if any of you want your teams approving
[05:44] <jono> read that page and then mail me your application
[05:44] <craigaa> How about someone (Jono?) being empowered to approve LoCo teams without having to get CC approval in advance?
[05:44] <MagicFab> craigaa, I was thinking *we* discuss applications here before CC
[05:44] <jono> craigaa, well this has been discussed, and at the UDS I am going to propose this
[05:44] <jono> MagicFab, I disagree - having a discussion here *and* at the CC is too much
[05:45] <jono> I am trying to reduce red tape, not add to it :P
[05:45] <MagicFab> jono: at the CC would merely be you and perhaps 2 other Loco contacts (other that those applying) to vouch for them...
[05:45] <jono> right..
[05:45] <jono> and..
[05:45] <MagicFab> particularly for the upcoming backlog I see for the next few weeks
[05:46] <elkbuntu> it should more be that jono act as a filter to stop the not-quite applications before they get as far as the CC
[05:46] <jono> to get rid of the backlog we need teams making applications, I will identify that applications are good, and if so put them in front of the CC
[05:46] <MagicFab> elkbuntu, +1
[05:46] <jono> thats what I do MagicFab :)
[05:47] <jono> so the plan is to get the backlog fixed up ASAP
[05:47] <MagicFab> jono, perhaps not here but in the mailing list ()which I haven't been following lately).
[05:47] <jono> I also have some things to add to the approval howto after todays first shot at approvals
[05:47] <jono> any questions regarding this process?
[05:47] <MagicFab> I'd rather raise issues like I had with Ubuntu Pakistan before the CC (not while in it)
[05:48] <jono> MagicFab, that is what the CC is for
[05:48] <jono> to get people there to discuss issues
[05:48] <MagicFab> perhaps just invite other loco teams contacts to comment on applications before they're on the CC
[05:48] <jono> it makes no sense to discuss some issues on one day and some on another day
[05:48] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, jono is quite capable of noticing glaring issues
[05:49] <jono> MagicFab, also, the approval process is not say a LoCo is vetted by the LoCo community, but by the CC who represent the community
[05:49] <ondrej> only shame is that biggest IT fair in CZ was last week :-(
[05:49] <jono> if we open up every application or decision to everyone in the community we would get nowhere quickly
[05:49] <MagicFab> elkbuntu, I trust that.
[05:49] <jono> I want to streamline this so people can do cool Loco stuff and not get bogged down in approval processes
[05:50] <nixternal> i want to do cool LoCo stuff
[05:50] <jono> :)
[05:50] <MagicFab> jono, asking for comments doesn't change your final decision.
[05:50] <jono> MagicFab, I know, but it takes my time
[05:50] <jono> and my time is limited
[05:51] <nixternal> in less than 2 weeks, if you are in chicago, we will have our big conference..actually found out a couple companies might be interested in sponsoring the event...one is some system security company
[05:51] <jono> I am responsible for all community teams and I want to get the most out of my time without getting bogged down in red tape
[05:51] <nixternal> which reminds me..i have a conference call soon
[05:51] <MagicFab> jono, precisely, not *your* time, but time among loco contacts that may want to discuss a new team's application.
[05:51] <Kuyaedz> I think the point is that if we well document the steps and better prepare the teams before submission the whole process will be much quicker for everyone involved.
[05:51] <jono> well that is what the CC is for
[05:51] <jono> if you have concerns, use the CC meeting
[05:51] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, what you're asking is for 2 layers of peer scrutiny. that will only worsen the process
[05:52] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, we're trying to lessen the amount of waiting and retrying
[05:52] <MagicFab> jono, I was commenting on that part opf the process after seing how I did that today and time was missing for other things
[05:52] <JanC> well, teams who want to get approved can ask approved teams to review their application informally...
[05:53] <MagicFab> elkbuntu, what you are asking is for only one person deciding. How is that better ? Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times.
[05:53] <jono> MagicFab, two layers of commenting are not productive, and we provide a place for comments the CC meeting
[05:53] <elkbuntu> Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times. <-- thats what we're trying to *filter*
[05:53] <jono> MagicFab, how does one person decide? the CC decide
[05:53] <MagicFab> JanC, that's an idea. Perhaps mention that in the process.
[05:54] <jono> MagicFab, the problem with two layers of comment is that the first layer of comment needs scheduling, logging, reading, and then some people in the second comment phase will want first phase commentators there
[05:54] <jono> its waaay too muchc complexity
[05:54] <jono> right now, teams submit for approval and the CC is there to seek comments
[05:55] <jono> if the CC meetings are too long, we fix the meetings
[05:55] <MagicFab> jono, I think JanC's idea is better. Just suggest to applicants that they see /ask for input from other teams
[05:55] <MagicFab> before they submit.
[05:55] <jono> I disagree
[05:55] <MagicFab> jono: are applications posted to the mailing list before the CC ?
[05:55] <looksaus> why not submit to the mailing list first, then schedule for CC
[05:55] <looksaus> ?
[05:56] <jono> look, we provide a forum for comment, the CC meeting - if people have concerns or issues prior to that, they should mail the CC
[05:56] <jono> I think it would be worthwhile to mention the approval on the list
[05:56] <jono> but the place for concerns and discussion is the CC meeting
[05:56] <craigaa> Perhaps existing LoCo contacts can assist new teams in preparing their applications before CC approval. Perhaps this will streamline the approvals.
[05:56] <jono> so the mailing list can tell people that an approval is happening and get to the meeting
[05:57] <jono> I am happy to make approvals better scheduled, just to not have two seperate comment periods
[05:57] <JanC> jono: with informal reviews by peers I mean that people can get help with writing their approval request pages
[05:57] <Kuyaedz> craigaa: I figure that is part of what we need to do with the LoCo Docs.  Put together steps, list resources, etc.
[05:57] <jono> JanC, sure, and thats what we want to encourage :)
[05:57] <MagicFab> JanC: +1
[05:57] <jono> so I suggest this process:
[05:57] <craigaa> Kuyaedz plus some basic hands on assistance
[05:57] <jono>  * a team begins writing their approval application, seeks help fro the community if needed
[05:57] <looksaus> jono, maybe just put in a minimum of x days before the CC meeting?
[05:58] <looksaus> oops, sorry
[05:58] <jono>  * I look ever it to ensure that the application has all the needed bits and then announce it is going for approval at the next CC meeting
[05:58] <jono>  * people then go to the CC meeting to offer comments if needed
[05:58] <MagicFab> looksaus, usually anything discusses in the agenda should be there at least a few days before
[05:58] <jono> I think that hits all the areas :)
[05:59] <jono> brb
[05:59] <MagicFab> jono: announcing would in the mailing list, the CC agenda and..
[05:59] <MagicFab> ?
[06:00] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, not to mention, when locos are up for approval they appear on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda so if you are concerned you can keep an eye here
[06:00] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, or, you could join #ubuntu-locoteams and contribute there
[06:00] <jono> announcing would be on loco-contacts - I would announce that a loco is submitting for approval and list the CC when it will happen
[06:01] <MagicFab> elkbuntu, I do. The problem is the loco teams's coevrage area people.
[06:01] <elkbuntu> MagicFab, i do not see you in the channel
[06:02] <jono> there has been little objection other than MagicFab so I am going to propose the process I mentioned earlier
[06:02] <looksaus> good idea
[06:02] <jono> this way the community know of up coming approvals and can offer comment
[06:02] <MagicFab> jono, not objecting. Actually ++ for mention on the mailing list before the CC.
[06:02] <jono> good job
[06:03] <jono> all sorted then :)
[06:03] <jono> I will modify the docs to reflect this
[06:03] <elkbuntu> that would mean...
[06:03] <MagicFab> elkbuntu, I do check the CC agenda - not often on #u-locoteams
[06:03] <jono> so, we are largely done, any other issues/
[06:03] <looksaus> jono, do you still have time for this other issue?
[06:03] <jono> looksaus, shoot
[06:04] <jono> I have to go in five mins
[06:04] <looksaus> sorry, it's the same thing from before: marketing edgy versus dapper, and towards whom?
[06:04] <jono> looksaus, ahhh ok, think of it in terms of support
[06:04] <looksaus> could you point me to canonical policy on that?
[06:04] <ondrej> jono: domain ubuntu.cz was not payed for and is about to leave DNS system :-( (sent emails to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>webmasters@c.c), but I need a promise that this will be looked at
[06:04] <jono> dapper provides a long support cycle and some companies care about that
[06:04] <jono> ondrej, mail smurf
[06:04] <ondrej> jono: email address?
[06:04] <jono> ondrej, did Canonical buy that for you?
[06:05] <ondrej> jono: I transfered domain to Canonical last year due trademarks
[06:05] <jono> looksaus, so recommend dapper to those companies who want an established version of ubuntu that has been released for six months - for other people who are happy to have a newer release, recommend edgy
[06:05] <jono> ondrej, right, let me get his email address and /msg you with it
[06:06] <jono> ondrej, got it?
[06:07] <ondrej> jono: yep, thanks
[06:07] <craigaa> I've got to go people. Thanks for the meeting. See you next time.
[06:07] <jono> ok any other last minute issues?
[06:07] <jono> I need to run
[06:07] <jono> thanks craigaa
[06:07] <looksaus> sorry for having kept you busy
[06:07] <Kuyaedz> I'm taken care of
[06:07] <elkbuntu> any other issues can go to the mailing list for consideration next meeting
[06:07] <jono> can someone ensure the log is online?
[06:07] <jono> yep
[06:07] <craigaa> ciao
[06:07] <jono> thanks folks! :)
[06:07] <elkbuntu> thanks jono :)
[06:07] <Kuyaedz> thanks. ttyl
[06:07] <Belutz> thanks jono :)
[06:08] <JanC> the log is always on-line  :)
[06:08] <jono> :)
[06:08] <looksaus> hm, guess the meeting is officially closed, so...
[06:08] <jono> later all!!
[06:09] <looksaus> I must say I'm a bit confused about shipit still sending out dapper, but us being supposed to pitch edgy to end users...
[06:10] <lophyte> they're shipping dapper because its LTS, edgy isn't
[06:10] <looksaus> I can see how there is added value in that for a whole lot of potential users...
[06:10] <looksaus> when I was manning this computer fair last Sunday
[06:10] <looksaus> (see http://map.ubuntu-be.org/leuven20061015  for pics)
[06:11] <MagicFab> looksaus, imagine the older U. were still available at shipit... I don't see a problem explaining that.
[06:11] <looksaus> there were several clearly _very_ untechnical people who had installed Ubuntu
[06:11] <looksaus> and were using it happily
[06:12] <looksaus> best example, a 76 year old man
[06:12] <looksaus> I'm a bit scared of pitching edgy to someone like him
[06:13] <looksaus> because of these few things that might be less polished than dapper
[06:13] <looksaus> with the introduction of all kinds of new things
[06:13] <nixternal> looksaus: believe it or not, some of my best "switchers" are 60 and over.  we just did an install fest, and at 32 i was the youngest, like  could have been everyones grand child
[06:13] <lophyte> it won't be less polished, though
[06:13] <looksaus> or am I being too paranoid here?
[06:14] <nixternal> here in the US, it seems it is easier to get an elder to switch then a hardcore computer user, ie you case modders and gamers
[06:14] <lophyte> edgy is just as stable as dapper, its just not LTS.
[06:14] <nixternal> plus, people who keep a workstation/desktop environment for more than 18 months w/o something new are windows users ;)
[06:14] <looksaus> lophyte, I seem to remember sabdfl saying something like "will be a release for experimenters" about Edgy in the beginning of its dev cycle
[06:15] <nixternal> well, edgy is not an experiment...edgy is the foundation for future releases
[06:15] <Jsgmob> Aye
[06:15] <looksaus> ok...
[06:15] <lophyte> indeed, nixternal
[06:15] <nixternal> sabdfl said take risks, as the time was right
[06:15] <rexbron> The idea with edgy was that it would use more bleeding edge software
[06:16] <JanC> some things might be less stable, but other things are more stable in edgy
[06:16] <looksaus> oh, by the way, does someone know when the next Community Council is scheduled?
[06:16] <rexbron> is you need absolute stability go with a LTS
[06:16] <lophyte> two weeks from today
[06:16] <rexbron> *if
[06:16] <rexbron> hey lophyte
[06:16] <Jsgmob> I thought this was loco meet?
[06:16] <nixternal> ok, this is OT
[06:16] <lophyte> hey rexbron
[06:16] <lophyte> this WAS loco
[06:16] <JanC> Jsgmob: loco meet is over
[06:16] <looksaus> Jsgmob, it is finished
[06:16] <lophyte> cc was before it
[06:16] <Jsgmob> Doh
[06:16] <rexbron> !topic
[06:17] <JanC> mobile?
[06:17] <rexbron> lophyte: did Ubuntu Canada get official status?
[06:17] <Jsgmob> Yeah
[06:17] <lophyte> nope.. Corey couldn't make it to the CC meeting.
[06:17] <rexbron> *sigh
[06:17] <rexbron> darn
[06:18] <lophyte> he'll get official status before Edgy is shipped, I'm sure
[06:18] <rexbron> that would have been nice
[06:18] <Kamion> CC> for the record, I'm fine with yama for membership
[06:18] <lophyte> Edgy won't be shipped until mid-November
[06:18] <lophyte> according to jono
[06:18] <rexbron> Did the release date change offically?
[06:18] <lophyte> no
[06:19] <rexbron> AFAIK, it is suposed to launch the 24
[06:19] <lophyte> ship dates and release dates are two different things :P
[06:19] <rexbron> lophyte: explain?
[06:19] <Seveas> (looksaus, did you make it?)
[06:19] <looksaus> yes, the Belgian team made it without problems
[06:19] <lophyte> the release date is "hey, we're done developing, here's the finished product"
[06:19] <looksaus> but my personal application was moved to next meeting due to a lack of time
[06:19] <lophyte> ship date is "give us a few weeks for the manufacturer to produce the CDs"
[06:20] <looksaus> at least, that's how I understand it
[06:20] <rexbron> but ship it will not be makeing edgy
[06:20] <rexbron> making
[06:20] <lophyte> no, it won't
[06:20] <lophyte> but they still have to produce them
[06:20] <lophyte> for loco teams
[06:20] <rexbron> ?
[06:20] <Seveas> looksaus, ok, next time I'll be there
[06:20] <rexbron> as promo
[06:20] <rexbron> I see what you mean now
[06:20] <looksaus> Seveas, thx
[06:20] <lophyte> Edgy CDs will be shipping to loco teams in mid-November, according to jono
[06:20] <lophyte> but the release date is the 26th of October, I think
[06:22] <JanC> IIRC edgy CDs would be available for people who want to pay for them too?
[06:22] <lophyte> that's the rumour
[06:22] <jsgotangco> We're currently selling dvds in amazon
[06:23] <JanC> well, only to the US AFAIK
[06:24] <jsgotangco> Well ther are some enterprising folks in .de doing that as well but not with official packaging
[06:40] <mitsuhiko> hoi
[09:31] <lguerra> @schedule bogota
[09:31] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 14:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 15:00: Technical Board
[09:39] <MagicFab> :)


[00:18] <rbasak> at is also doing it. I don't see how that got missed before :-/
[00:20] <rbasak> I mean how I missed it before
[00:28] <rbasak> at uploaded
[06:59] <rbasak> No more Postfix prompt on upgrade \o/
[11:39] <ahasenack> good morning
[13:13] <jchittum> yay for no more postfix! i was just writing up that folks might see a Postfix prompt when doing an upgrade of cloud images
[16:11] <GunnarHj> Is anybody looking into the daily builds of the desktop ISO for amd64? The latest one I see is from April 9.
[16:12] <GunnarHj> bdmurray ^
[16:26] <jbicha> GunnarHj: I think that's a known issue that has been affecting ISO builds for all flavors for a while. For instance, see https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/pending/
[16:26] <jbicha> and https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/jammy/daily-live-20220414.log
[16:28] <GunnarHj> Thanks jbicha. But then my question still stands.
[16:29] <cjwatson> There was an attempt to fix it at the cloud level this morning, which, err, seems to have mostly taken out the entire cloud's networking
[16:29] <cjwatson> Err, assuming we're talking about the same thing (observable as livefs builds failing trying to talk to people.canonical.com)
[16:31] <jbicha> yeah, I think this log shows the issue better: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/jammy/ubuntu/+build/338594
[16:32] <GunnarHj> cjwatson: I'm merely talking about the result. As the kubuntu page which jbicha posted. Or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/
[16:33] <cjwatson> Definitely being worked on, but hard to give a projection right now.
[16:33] <GunnarHj> cjwatson: Thanks, that answered my question.
[16:34] <cjwatson> That said, I filed a ticket the other day with an alternate workaround (which would have the effect of making builder resets significantly less reliable in the current state, but if the builder managed to reset at all then it would have correct metadata).  Depending on how the current firefighting goes I may see about lighting a fire under that one.
[16:35] <jbicha> lol at the mixed metaphors
[16:35] <cjwatson> Deliberately :)
[16:35] <cjwatson> (Very roughly: the cloud metadata service issue that causes this also has the effect that the builder's usual SSH keys don't get installed, so we can try sshing to the builder after resetting it as a test for whether it came up properly, and if not we can disable it instead.)
[16:36] <cjwatson> Canonical staff can see that side of things as https://portal.admin.canonical.com/C149289
[17:21] <jbicha> xnox: are you around? I ran into LP: #1969145
[22:47] <xnox> jbicha:  le sigh, i bet we only should specify that on armhf; and not on all arches. and like the package is buggy; and only worked whilst compilers were not strict about such things
[22:48] <xnox> also pondering why we specify that at all, given that all our arches default to hard float abi i think.
[22:49] <xnox> jbicha:  clearly this is not an issue with glib; so just ask release team to force-skiptest glib; and we can look into fixing oss4 builds later