[00:03] <TheMuso> jbicha_: I'm just looking at your cogl/clutter sponsorship item in the queue and see its taken care of. I do note that there is no bug closure statement in the changelog. Could you please include this in the future such that the bug is closed, and the bug is removed from the queue such that pilots don't have to take time to follow things up and close the bug?
[00:05] <jbicha_> TheMuso: oops, I did put the bug # in the clutter upload but the other problem is that I don't think it will actually autoclose until it migrates out of -proposed
[00:05] <TheMuso> I know that, but I could at least see that its in proposed, and leave it at that, knowing that the bug will get closed.
[00:06] <TheMuso> Checking that its in proposed doesn't take that long.
[03:21] <jbicha> TheMuso: did you have time for a few rebuilds? otherwise I think Laney can help with it later
[03:28] <TheMuso> jbicha: Sorry I didn't get to them.
[03:38] <bochecha_> jbicha: hi, this is a bit off-topic for this channel, but it's the only one where I see you active. You seem to have made the last change which went into pycanberra, do you know if the author is still working on it?
[03:38] <bochecha_> I have had a pull request opened for a few months without any comment now :(
[03:42] <jbicha> bochecha_: ah it took me a bit to find the project since it's not in Ubuntu directly (but included inside gnome-clocks)
[03:42] <bochecha_> jbicha: gnome-clocks moved to vala, so they don't use it any more
[03:42] <bochecha_> but I'm using it in another project (ibus-cangjie)
[03:43] <bochecha_> and I need it to be ported to Python 3, for which I submitted a pull request 3 months ago
[03:43] <bochecha_> I was just wondering if you had commit access there to review my pull request, or maybe you knew the author and whether he was still interested in it
[05:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:07] <chrisccoulson> good morning
[07:08] <chrisccoulson> i've got that authentic UDS ubuflu feeling this morning (sore throat and feel like crap) ;)
[07:18] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[07:18] <pitti> oh indeed, do we get an ubuflu plugin for hangout?
[07:18] <pitti> and a beer plugin!
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> heh
[07:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! much better now, I just found a solution to a bug I chased all of yesterday
[07:19] <chrisccoulson> that's good :)
[07:19] <chrisccoulson> i just seem to get to the bottom of one bug, and then immediately hit another (chromium on arm) ;)
[07:29] <didrocks> poor chrisccoulson :/
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, seems for once, I didn't say good morning here btw ;)
[07:30] <didrocks> so good morning!
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> is that a reference to me being unwell, or having to debug chromium issues ;)
[07:30] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: both :p
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> good morning :)
[07:30] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> right, rebuilding chromium *again*
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> hopefully this build is a bit more useful :)
[08:21] <dpm> good morning all. chrisccoulson, nice picture of you and seb128 "working" on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/ :)
[08:27] <didrocks> hey dpm!
[08:27] <didrocks> dpm: FYI, the sdk is in raring now :)
[08:27] <dpm> morning didrocks yeah, I saw that :)
[08:27] <dpm> nice work
[08:28] <dpm> didrocks, do you think you could answer mdeslaur's question on ubuntu-phone? I don't really know what's going on there -> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00502.html
[08:29] <didrocks> dpm: hum, I'm not subscribed to the ML
[08:30] <didrocks> dpm: to me, it seems that he has a mix between the ppa and raring
[08:30] <didrocks> the dep is          qtdeclarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin,
[08:30] <didrocks> in raring
[08:30] <didrocks> Mirv: ^
[08:30] <didrocks> dpm: people should really remove the ppa :)
[08:32] <Mirv> dpm: I answered march in private, but didn't notice it was from the list as Pat forwarded it to me. I'll answer to the list as well
[08:33] <jibel> good morning
[08:33] <dpm> Mirv, yeah, answering that one in public might be more appropriate, as I could imagine more folks having the same problem
[08:33] <didrocks> salut jibel, ça va?
[08:33] <jibel> Salut didrocks , ça va et toi ?
[08:34] <didrocks> jibel: ça va bien :)
[08:35] <dpm> didrocks, Mirv, we should probably coordinate any of these packaging changes with updating the installation instructions on d.u.c/gomobile better in the future. What are the installation instructions for raring now, simply not to install any of the two PPAs and then "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk"?
[08:35] <Mirv> dpm: read the post, gomobile is fine as is
[08:36] <dpm> Mirv, which post?
[08:36] <Mirv> dpm: the one I just copied over to the public list from the private mail to Marc
[08:37] <Mirv> dpm: the PPA instructions wouldn't be exactly needed anymore for raring, but they AFAIK don't hurt either - notepad-qml can be still installed from the ubuntu-sdk-team ppa, and otherwise the archive versions have higher version numbers
[08:37] <didrocks> dpm: yeah, no ppa required :)
[08:37] <Mirv> dpm: but you can consider adding some note about raring. see also my up-to-date information always at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper
[08:38] <didrocks> Mirv: we should remove this ppa now for raring
[08:38] <didrocks> Mirv: and have daily release
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: it's already done
[08:38] <didrocks> ah great ;)
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: ah, from instructions, right
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: I mean, I've cleaned the PPA:s
[08:38] <didrocks> but daily release FTW
[08:39]  * didrocks makes a note for UDS
[08:39] <Mirv> yes
[08:39] <Mirv> as soon as my ubuntu-ui-toolkit merge is accepted, hopefully next week
[08:39] <dpm> Mirv, thanks, I've just read your e-mail. So in a nutshell, things should get fixed automatically (probably at some point today), right?
[08:40] <Mirv> dpm: yes
[08:41] <dpm> Mirv, didrocks, I'm not too clear what's happening to the raring PPA for the toolkit, though, and what we should do with the raring instructions. Could you please expand a bit more on that, and I'll update the installation instructions if needed?
[08:41] <Mirv> dpm: did you read the qt5-proper description page?
[08:42] <thumper> hi didrocks
[08:42] <thumper> didrocks: just to let you know the latest desktop packages makes my laptop happy again
[08:43] <dpm> Mirv, yes, but I was asking about the UI toolkit PPA
[08:43] <thumper> also, I now have an interesting problem with postgresql
[08:43] <Mirv> dpm: ok, I added a note "The ubuntu-sdk-team PPA is not strictly required anymore, but notepad-qml currently resides there." now, does it answer the question?
[08:43] <Mirv> dpm: the ubuntu-sdk in raring does not install the qt-components-ubuntu from the PPA anymore, but notepad-qml is something that is only in the PPA at the moment
[08:44] <thumper> I've upgraded to raring and now postgresql doesn't want to start, saying DETAIL:  Failed system call was shmget(key=5432001, size=41263104, 03600).
[08:44] <dpm> Mirv, gotcha. So what's the plan with migrating notepad-qml to the archive? Or are we not doing that anymore, now that the notepad app's code is public?
[08:45] <thumper> now /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax is the same on my raring box as the precise box
[08:45] <thumper> and the postgresql.conf file says 32Meg of shared mem
[08:45] <Mirv> dpm: I think the app uploads are planned at some point, but the packaging of that or any of the apps has seen no review so far
[08:46] <thumper> so why is it asking for 41263104?
[08:46] <Mirv> dpm: when we get the toolkit daily process working, we can build on top of that
[08:46] <thumper> raring has 9.1+140, precise has 9.1+129ubuntu1
[08:48] <didrocks> thumper: excellent news! :)
[08:49] <thumper> didrocks: do you know who handles postgresql packaging?
[08:49] <didrocks> thumper: pitti is doing it in debian and ubuntu ^
[08:49] <thumper> hi pitti
[08:49] <pitti> hello thumper
[08:49] <thumper> pitti: postgresql doesn't want to start on raring now I have upgraded
[08:50] <thumper> see the message above from 5 min ago
[08:50] <pitti> thumper: oh, that looks like you have too little shared memory for what you configured psql to use?
[08:50] <thumper> pitti: it is all default
[08:50] <thumper> psql says 32MB
[08:50] <thumper> but it seems to be asking for a lot more
[08:50] <pitti> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/kernel-resources.html
[08:51] <thumper> pitti: I'd expect a default install of postgresql to at least start without tweaking kernel memory
[08:52]  * thumper pokes
[08:52] <pitti> thumper: I haven't seen that problem in a while, though; we got lots of dupes on bug 264336
[08:52] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 264336 in postgresql-8.4 (Ubuntu) "pgsql fails to start due to shared buffer setting greater than kernel allows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264336
[08:52] <pitti> thumper: yes, indeed
[08:53] <pitti> thumper: and that does work here
[08:53] <pitti> thumper: perhaps something else on your system is using shared memory already?
[08:53] <pitti> (I'm not really familiar how this works, if it's per-user or per-process or global)
[08:53] <lifeless> thumper: you don't have an ex-LP dev environment around :)
[08:53] <thumper> lifeless: not on this machine
[08:54] <thumper> pitti: the error from psql says Failed system call was shmget(key=5432001, size=41263104, 03600).
[08:54] <thumper> now 41263104 is bigger than the default of 33554432
[08:54] <thumper> not sure why it is asking for more than the specified 32MB though
[08:54]  * thumper tweaks to 64MB system
[08:55] <thumper> pitti: so I doubled my value using $ sudo sysctl -w kernel.shmmax=67108864
[08:55] <thumper> and postgresql starts now
[08:56] <thumper> this sysctl thing, do I have to set that every time I reboot?
[08:57] <pitti> thumper: for me, /proc/sysvipc/shm says that postgresql is using 32399360 bytes
[08:57] <pitti> thumper: no, you can tweak /etc/sysctl.d/30-postgresql-shm.conf
[08:58] <pitti> thumper: same key btw, that seems to be a constant (port number and 0001)
[08:59] <pitti> that's with the default max_connections = 100
[08:59] <pitti> I'm on 64 bit, that might make some difference?
[08:59] <pitti> although I'd expect 64 bit arch to use more memory, if it's different at all
[09:02]  * thumper is on a 64bit machine
[09:02] <thumper> I don't get why it is doing this...
[09:07] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:07] <Laney> hey
[09:08]  * Daviey sulks off, feeling most unwelcome.. grunting to himself.
[09:09] <didrocks> hey *serverers* :)
[09:09] <Laney> Daviey lives to serve
[09:09] <pitti> Daviey: hush hush, back to your play room :)
[09:09]  * Daviey creates a rain Cloud over you miserable gits. :)
[09:09] <didrocks> ahah
[09:10] <didrocks> oh it worked!
[09:10]  * didrocks blames Daviey
[09:10]  * pitti installs gnome-shell and crawls under it to protect himself
[09:11] <seb128> hey Laney didrocks pitti
[09:11] <seb128> pitti, ton unity est cassé ?
[09:12] <Daviey> don't underestimated the power of the juju
[09:12] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ça va?
[09:12] <seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: non, mais unity ne protège pas contre la pluie
[09:12] <seb128> hehe
[09:13] <pitti> seb128: as there is no gnome-sun nor gnome-umbrella, that seemed like the next best thing
[09:13] <seb128> indeed
[09:14] <pitti> so a mini-UDS next week, that sounds quite rushed to me
[09:14] <pitti> we still have plenty of WIs, and no prep, etc.
[09:18] <seb128> pitti, yeah, seems like at the same time we can't affort to not make changes
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: yes, we should certainly revisit our remaining WIs, no argument ther
[09:19] <pitti> but next week still seems a bit rushed to me
[09:19] <BigWhale> Greetings all.
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, well, it's either next week or a month later, missing a month would be an issue as well
[09:23] <seb128> but yeah, it's rushed
[09:24] <seb128> well, let's see
[09:25] <seb128> I'm not deciding on the schedule, apparently that's what best suited with calendars, etc
[09:25] <seb128> it matches feature freeze as well
[09:27] <ogra_> pitti, dunno about yours, but my woerkitems are targetd for 13.04 not for next week :)
[09:27]  * ogra_ glares at his fingers .... geez, type what i think,. damned ...
[09:28] <didrocks> ogra_: you need regression tests for your fingers :)
[09:28] <ogra_> LOL
[09:29] <pitti> ogra_: sure, that's what I meant with "certainly good to review them now"
[09:30] <ogra_> i would actually expect the 1304 targets to persist as they are and to get new WIs from the UDS sessions in new specs that run on a shorter schedule
[09:30] <ogra_> (until next UDS ... which again is 13.04 timeframe)
[10:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[10:40] <xnox> my mate couldn't login today & had to purge .config/dconf to have compiz start. New / guest accounts still worked. I haven't heard anything like this yet, so it could be a user error.
[10:41] <Laney> doubt we can do much without logs
[10:41] <seb128> xnox, I've the same issue, it's a problem with libcompizconfig somewhere
[10:41] <seb128> being discussing it on #ubuntu-unity
[10:41] <seb128> sil2100 is looking at it
[10:41] <seb128> sil2100, ^ not only me
[10:42] <seb128> being discussed*
[10:42] <seb128> xnox, downgrading the lib without wipping the config works, I still have the buggy system so I can provide infos
[10:43] <sil2100> xnox: hm!
[10:43] <sil2100> xnox: good to know, the dconf purge is a good pointer, thanks
[10:44] <xnox> sil2100: well back it up / revert settings to default.
[10:44] <seb128> xnox, so only purging the dconf config was enough?
[10:44] <xnox> seb128: i believe that's what he said.
[10:44] <seb128> xnox, e.g no change to compiz's config?
 rm -rf .config/dconf helpe
[10:45] <xnox> d
[10:45] <xnox> that's fairly obvious =) if he did do something else, it didn't help.
[11:02] <seb128> xnox, can you friend go back in a broken state to get debug infos?
[11:04] <xnox> seb128: what do you want to find out / collect?
[11:05] <seb128> xnox, from a buggy session:
[11:05] <seb128> dconf read /org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/active-plugins
[11:05] <seb128> dconf read /org/compiz/current-profile
[11:05] <seb128> and the content of
[11:05] <seb128> .config/compiz-1/compizconfig/done_upgrades
[11:23] <xnox> seb128: not reproducible any more. sorry.
[11:23] <seb128> xnox, no worry, same for me ...
[11:31] <seb128> sil2100, ^ btw, xnox's friend can't reproduce either, so maybe a config upgrade thing
[11:31] <seb128> Laney, what happened to the "jbicha will handle the cogl transition"? ;-)
[11:32] <Laney> he couldn't do the main sources so pinged me to upload those :P
[11:32] <seb128> oh, right
[11:32] <sil2100> seb128, xnox: probably, but still it needs investigation which exactly case causes the failure and because of what
[11:32] <seb128> yeah
[11:32] <xnox> well I didn't upgrade recently.
[11:32] <xnox> What's the cuplrit's version number? I might be the next victim.
[11:32] <seb128> xnox, maybe you will get the issue once you upgrade
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, 1:0.9.9~daily13.02.26-0ubuntu1
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, uploaded yesterday afternoon/evening
[11:33] <xnox> yeap, offered to upgrade to that.
[11:33] <sil2100> xnox: what compiz version do you have installed currently?
[11:34]  * Laney tries
[11:34] <sil2100> 19.1?
[11:34] <Laney> I didn't get the bug in my VM though
[11:34] <xnox> 1:0.9.9~daily13.02.19-0ubuntu1
[11:34] <xnox> is my current one.
[11:34] <sil2100> hm, ok
[11:36] <Laney> no bug here
[11:36] <seb128> :-(
[11:37] <Laney> i see 01/02/03 in the done_upgrades file
[11:37] <sil2100> I'll check again the upgrade code, maybe there is some race condition there
[11:48] <popey> hmm, just updated and am getting "The disk drive for /tmp is not ready yet or not present" which is somewhat alarming and odd...
[11:48]  * popey wonders if it's taking a long time rm'ing what was in there before I rebooted... (there was a compiled kernel)
[11:48] <ogra_> get a new disk !
[11:48] <popey> yup! looks like it
[11:48] <popey> It's an SSD!
[11:49] <popey> Phew, finished, that was scary..
[11:50] <Laney> I'm glad to see that I joined the Mozilla Test Pilot Team!
[11:51]  * popey gives Laney wings
[11:55] <davmor2> popey: give Laney a redbull it'll give him wings and he'll be far more awake too ;)
[11:55] <Laney> eww
[11:58] <ogra_> but put him on a leash first
[12:00] <GunnarHj> Laney: Can you possibly merge the im-config branch at bug 1101836 before drinking that red bull? ;-)
[12:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1101836 in im-config (Ubuntu Raring) "Needs to keep hands off when removed but not purged" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101836
[12:00] <ritz> cyphermox ping
[12:03] <Laney> GunnarHj: yeah, will do today
[12:03] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great, tnx.
[12:04] <Laney> thank you
[12:04] <Laney> hoping Quintasan does the im-config-fu for maliit soon
[12:04] <Laney> ;-)
[12:04] <Laney> then I can forget about this im-* :P
[12:06] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thought you were studying Chinese now.
[12:06] <Laney> nah, forgotten that already ;-)
[12:06] <GunnarHj> :)
[12:07] <Laney> (somehow I suspect it'll come back up again ...)
[12:08] <Laney> wow my battery is at 104%!
[12:08] <vibhav> Whoa
[12:08] <pitti> after overclocking now overcharging?
[12:10] <Laney> \o/
[12:21] <Laney> GunnarHj: Alright, I'm going to upload that
[12:22] <GunnarHj> Laney: The code isn't optimal, but it does the right thing for us.
[12:22] <Laney> I hope osamu can be convinced to get rid of that code, but I buy your argument
[12:23] <GunnarHj> Laney: It was your idea in the first place, and it was indeed the way to go.
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> sigh @ bug 1132962
[13:45] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1132962 in tomboy "GConf is deprecated" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132962
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> i wish this guy would stop doing this
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> "lets report a vaguely similar bug against a bazillion completely unrelated packages"
[13:52] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: +1
[13:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: could you sync libcmis 0.3.1-1 over our 0.3.0-1~ubuntu2 prerelease?
[13:53] <desrt> chrisccoulson: meh.  i don't mind tracking bugs
[13:54] <desrt> seb128: hey
[13:54]  * Sweetshark offers chrisccoulson a bite of bug 1034928 ...
[13:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1034928 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Quantal) "Fontconfig warning: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not works as expected" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034928
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> desrt, the problem is, launchpad doesn't really have a concept of tracking bugs. creating a single bug assigned to dozens of unrelated packages creates a lot of email spam for packages that developers don't care about :/
[13:55] <desrt> ya.  true.
[13:55] <desrt> was just thinking this...
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> desrt, see bug 1030022 also ;)
[13:55] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1030022 in spectrwm (Ubuntu) "Port from legacy Xlib to to modern XCB" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030022
[13:55] <desrt> seb128: did some testing about timedated vs. systemd yesterday
[13:55] <desrt> chrisccoulson: well that's just bullshit :)
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[13:56] <desrt> gtk has no plans to do this, for example...
[13:58] <Sweetshark> win 4
[14:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did he do it on other bugs as well?
[14:00] <seb128> desrt, hey
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, bug 888662 too
[14:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 888662 in xxxterm (Ubuntu) "Web browsers should share the cache" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888662
[14:00] <seb128> desrt, did you ask lennart about the "run helpers without the init system"?
[14:00] <desrt> seb128: he didn't ping back
[14:01] <desrt> seb128: in this case, the init system is really needed by the helper
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, and bug 891793. he has form ;)
[14:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 891793 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Login with USB key or smart card" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891793
[14:01] <desrt> but we can work around it rather easily...
[14:01] <desrt> seb128: this is needed to support the "sync date/time with NTP" switch in the  UI
[14:01] <desrt> timedated tries to ask systemd "is ntp running?" and then "start ntp" and "stop ntp"
[14:02] <desrt> i wrote a very small dummy service yesterday claiming to be systemd and answering questions about NTP.  that was enough to get it working.
[14:02] <desrt> i consider today adding support for actually doing the request on upstart
[14:02] <desrt> ie: timedated will think that it is asking systemd to start NTP but really upstart will do it
[14:02] <seb128> sounds good
[14:03] <desrt> the rest of the functionality is fine
[14:03] <desrt> changing timezones, etc.
[14:03] <desrt> all works
[14:03] <seb128> desrt, maybe move to #ubuntu-devel so slangasek can read it
[14:03]  * desrt doesn't want to type all that again :p
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> oh wow, link failure:
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/132499511/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.firefox_21.0~a2~hg20130226r128460-0ubuntu1~umd1~precise_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> collect2: ld terminated with signal 9 [Killed]
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> getting too big for i386, i wonder? ;)
[14:04] <ogra_> who cares as long as it builds on arm
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, yeah, it builds fine on arm
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> it's a shame that chromium doesn't :P
[14:05] <ogra_> i know, just teasing :)
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> heh
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> actually, chromium is building here. it just doesn't work
[14:05] <desrt> seb128: okay.  i pastebinned it to him :)
[14:05] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[14:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, went into clean/rent mode on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cinnamon/+bug/1132962 ;-)
[14:13] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1132962 in tomboy "GConf is deprecated" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks :)
[14:14] <seb128> yw
[14:18] <mdeslaur> seb128: we don't use ntp on ubuntu...wouldn't it make more sense to simply get rid of that checkbox?
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, good point, we have ntpdate though
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: yes, and it's automatically run, no checkbox needed
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, is it?
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, our current ui has "automatically sync time" or "manual"
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: it's in the network ifup scripts...every time you up a network interface, it resyncs the date
[14:20] <seb128> mdeslaur, what is the option doing then?
[14:20] <mdeslaur> seb128: uh...nothing? :)
[14:20] <seb128> why do we have it then?
[14:20] <mdeslaur> I don't know, hehe :P
[14:20] <mdeslaur> I think that needs some investigation :P
[14:21] <mdeslaur> seb128: maybe the switch turns it on/off in /etc/default/ntpdate...let me check
[14:21] <ogra_> yay
[14:22] <ogra_> ++ fro dropping the silly ntp option
[14:22] <kenvandine> +1
[14:22] <seb128>  g_dbus_proxy_call (self->priv->proxy, "SetUsingNtp", g_variant_new ("(b)", active),
[14:22] <seb128>                      G_DBUS_CALL_FLAGS_NONE, -1, NULL, dbus_set_answered, "using_ntp");
[14:22] <ogra_> ntpdate syncs the clock on every network connect anyway
[14:23] <kenvandine> ogra_, does it for static interfaces?
[14:23] <ogra_> (it lives in /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate since several years)
[14:23]  * kenvandine doesn't actually know if network-manager does anything for those
[14:23] <ogra_> kenvandine, for all but loopback
[14:23] <kenvandine> ok
[14:23] <ogra_> no matter if  NM or /etc/network/interfaces, both run if-up.d scripts afaik
[14:24] <kenvandine> makes sense
[14:25] <seb128> ogra_, so if you run your system for years without reconnecting your clock is free to drift?
[14:25] <Sweetshark> seb128: disregard the 0.3.0 sync request -- we need 0.3.1 anyway for the next libreoffice upload once that is there ...
[14:25] <ogra_> yeah
[14:25] <ogra_> thats the one disadvantage
[14:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, sorry, I was in a call when you pinged, didn't catch up yet
[14:25] <ogra_> but given that we have people like mdeslaur your kernel security updates will force you to reboot at some point
[14:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, you asked me to sync 03.1-1 no?
[14:25] <ogra_> ;)
[14:26] <mdeslaur> seb128: have you ever noticed before? :P
[14:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: If you would sync 0.3.1-1, that would be nice. I originally asked for 0.3.0-1, which wouldnt help ..
[14:26] <kenvandine> ogra_, and for a desktop... how likely are you to not have your ethernet unplugged from time to time?
[14:27] <kenvandine> different for the server of course
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, <Sweetshark> seb128: could you sync libcmis 0.3.1-1 over our 0.3.0-1~ubuntu2 prerelease?
[14:27] <ogra_> servers should use ntpd
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, you asked for 0.3.1-1?
[14:27] <Sweetshark> seb128: Yes, I need 0.3.1-1
[14:27] <seb128> ogra_, mdeslaur: do we sync on wifi connect? that seems to be broken on some of my boxes
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, so all good
[14:28] <ogra_> seb128, we sync for all interfaces but lo
[14:28] <ogra_> if it doesnt work on a wifi card for you, thats surely a bug
[14:28] <seb128> ogra_, ok, dunno why it doesn't work for me
[14:29] <mdeslaur> it does seem to work if I set it to manual, so I think it is hooked up somewhere
[14:29] <seb128> desrt, we will need to drop the gnome-settings-daemon patch "revert_git_datetime_dropping.patch", at this point the dbus interface used by indicator-datetime will stop being available so we need to update indicator-datetime too
[14:35] <mdeslaur> ah, yes, that patch disables ntpdate
[14:35] <mdeslaur> so if ntp is installed, it uses that, else it disables/enables ntpdate
[14:36] <desrt> *ntpd
[14:36] <desrt> seems that the systemd approach has no ntpdate method
[14:37] <desrt> it just starts/stops ntpd
[14:39] <desrt> or something called chronyd
[14:39]  * desrt wonders what this is
[14:39] <desrt> seems to use that if ntp is not available
[14:40] <desrt> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Chrony
[14:40] <desrt> neat.
[14:42] <desrt> i wonder if maybe there is good reason to switch to using this instead
[14:42] <desrt> well, probably there is a lot of good reason.  i wonder if there's a reason not to do it, though
[14:42] <mdeslaur> memory footprint
[14:42] <desrt> ntpd is slimmer?
[14:43] <mdeslaur> ah, don't know, I just meant vs. ntpdate
[14:46] <desrt> chronyd seems to use ~260kB
[14:47] <desrt> on the power front, its main loop seems to wake up once every 60 seconds
[14:48] <desrt> each wakeup is a bit of network activity
[14:51] <mdeslaur> does chrony support authenticated ntp?
[14:51] <desrt> chronyd will probably use more power than ntpd -- it seems to be a bit more hyperactive about its job
[14:51] <desrt> mdeslaur: yes
[14:51] <desrt> at least i saw something about keys in the config file
[14:52] <desrt> or maybe not
[14:52] <desrt> that's an admin password
[14:52] <desrt> * advanced NTP features like Autokey authentication are not supported
[14:53] <desrt> here is the rationale behind fedora's change: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ChronyDefaultNTP
[14:54] <desrt> they did some rather detailed testing
[14:55] <desrt> interesting.  ntp uses more power.
[14:55] <desrt> of course, ntpdate is best of all :p
[14:55] <mdeslaur> hrm, autokey auth is a desired feature though, we've had a lot of requests for that
[14:56] <desrt> i wonder if we could kick upstream a little
[14:57] <mdeslaur> not a dealbreaker for now
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> jibel, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/47/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/ has been broken for a while now. any idea what's going on there?
[15:04] <jibel> chrisccoulson, looking
[15:29]  * Laney eyes the totem failure
[15:29]  * Laney eyes jbicha
[15:30] <jbicha> Laney: yeah I'm not sure about that one
[15:30] <Laney> it seems to be installable here
[15:32] <Laney> ah component mismatch
[15:32] <Laney> libarchive13
[15:33] <Laney> how hasn't that been a problem for you in the libarchive transition?
[15:40] <jbicha> pitti: are you still around today?
[15:43] <jibel> chrisccoulson, so, the problem is that adt doesn't find the source package, which exists obviously. I restarted a test run to check if it's a timing issue, but I'm really not sure why this happens yet.
[15:44] <chrisccoulson> jibel, thanks
[15:44] <jbicha> or stgraber: what's next for the Ubuntu GNOME flavor proposal? does it need to be added to the agenda for Monday's meeting?
[15:48] <desrt> lulz.  people are talking to my systemd emulator
[15:48] <stgraber> jbicha: we typically automatically bring up any e-mail discussion to the meeting if it's not resolved by then
[16:02] <didrocks> pitti: do you mind putting some coal on launchpad builders trains for ido so that we can release?
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331803
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331804
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331806
[16:02] <didrocks> (i386 already built successfully)
[16:02] <didrocks> cyphermox: ^
[16:04] <czajkowski> really need to remove launchpad from highlight
[16:06] <didrocks> :)
[16:11] <BigWhale> is there a 'dbus-explorer'?
[16:24] <pitti> jbicha: I'm back now
[16:24] <pitti> didrocks: shoveling
[16:24] <didrocks> \o/
[16:25]  * pitti wipes away sweat, done
[16:25]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[16:25]  * pitti tu donne une accolade en retour
[16:25] <didrocks> pitti: je pense que tu mérites une bonne douche :-)
[16:25] <jbicha> pitti: ok I think stgraber answered my question
[16:27] <pitti> didrocks: j'ai avoir une douche à ce soir :)
[16:27] <didrocks> héhé
[16:32] <stgraber> seb128: so do you have any feedback on upstart user sessions? I'm now looking at final testing before we release 1.7 upstream and land that stuff in the archive, so if you have any blocker, now would be the time ;)
[16:33] <seb128> stgraber, not behind the basic "it seems to work" feedback I had the other day, I can do extra testing tomorrow and give you an update then if you want to wait an extra day
[16:35]  * Laney is doing some testing now
[16:36] <stgraber> I'm happy to wait an extra day.
[16:37] <Laney> stgraber: you'd still have it as an opt-in session?
[16:38] <stgraber> Laney: no, my plan is to land it as the default session in the archive. Basically having a /etc/upstart-xsessions file listing the xsessions that work under upstart user session, with just "ubuntu" listed in there initially
[16:39] <Laney> ah, so sessions not listed in there would continue to be managed outside of upstart
[16:48] <desrt> seb128: the way we enable/disable ntp is some kind of hilarious nightmare
[16:53] <ogra_> desrt, just rip it out, stop discussing
[16:54] <desrt> ogra_: we have to replace it with something
[16:54] <ogra_> ??
[16:54] <ogra_> we use ntpdate by default since years
[16:54] <desrt> ogra_: the UI has a switch "enable NTP"
[16:54] <ogra_> that UI thing was always obsoloete
[16:54] <desrt> huh?
[16:54] <ogra_> desrt, right, remove it
[16:54] <desrt> not afaik?
[16:55] <ogra_> desrt, /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate is riun for every device except lo
[16:55] <desrt> ogra_: sometimes
[16:55] <ogra_> you dont need any UI option at all
[16:55] <desrt> ogra_: what if you don't want NTP?
[16:55] <ogra_> desrt, if thats true, thats a bug
[16:56] <desrt> ogra_: if you flick the switch, that script gets renamed to "ntpdate.disabled"
[16:56] <ogra_> desrt, you dont have much choice (since about 4 years)
[16:56] <desrt> ogra_: i'm reading the code now that calls "mv" on this file
[16:56] <mdeslaur>  ogra_: the check _did_ in fact disable ntpdate
[16:56] <jasoncwarner_> hey bryce seb128 and didrocks, can we delay meeting by about 10 minutes?
[16:56] <ogra_> mdeslaur, oh
[16:56] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: sure
[16:57] <ogra_> didnt it insist to actually install ntpd in the past ?
[16:57] <desrt> no...
[16:57] <desrt> although if ntpd is installed it will also deal with that
[16:57] <ogra_> i'm sure i have at least two machines where it forcefully installed ntpd
[16:57] <ogra_> though that was in gnome2
[16:58] <mdeslaur> it should gracefully handle ntpdate, which is the default, and people who have installed ntpd
[16:58] <desrt> it does this
[16:58] <desrt> 'gracefully', perhaps not :)
[16:58] <jasoncwarner_> bryce didrocks seb128 nm....good to go...
[16:59] <mdeslaur> yes, it currently does
[16:59] <desrt> it's a bunch of calls to 'mv' and 'update-rc.d'
[16:59] <ogra_> shudder
[16:59] <desrt> this is what i mean by 'hilarious nightmare'
[17:00] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, coming in a minute
[17:03] <mdeslaur> yeah, won't win any beauty contest :P
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> jibel, is there anything i can do to help get junit / autopkgtest working together (if it's possible). do you want me to work on that?
[17:23] <cyphermox> pitti: if you're still around, could you bump the ido build for armhf again please? :)
[17:24] <pitti> cyphermox: do you have the URL?
[17:24] <cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331804
[17:25] <pitti> cyphermox: done
[17:30] <GunnarHj> Laney: still there?
[17:31] <Laney> yes
[17:31] <Laney> don't make me do anything that requires a working desktop session
[17:31] <Laney> :P
[17:31] <GunnarHj> Laney: Does that explain that you uploaded an old MP? ;-)
[17:32] <Laney> oh, whoops
[17:32] <Laney> what's the current one?
[17:32]  * Laney can do that from a terminal
[17:33] <GunnarHj> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/raring/im-config/version-0.20/+merge/150172
[17:33] <Laney> the branch would be better
[17:33]  * Laney assumes lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu/raring/im-config/version-0.20
[17:33] <GunnarHj> Laney: Yes, of course.
[17:34] <GunnarHj> Laney: Is it doable to exchange them?
[17:34] <Laney> sure
[17:34] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great.
[17:34] <Laney> might need to increase the version
[17:35] <GunnarHj> The proposed version is 0.21ubuntu1 already.
[17:35] <Laney> ah no, this is 0.21, sweet
[17:35]  * Laney eyes version-0.20 ...
[17:35] <GunnarHj> Laney: Forgot to change the branch name.
[17:36] <Laney> I'm sure I re-branched when I uploaded it today
[17:37] <desrt>  This package contains the NTP daemon and utility programs.
[17:37] <cyphermox> pitti: thanks!
[17:37] <desrt> uhm... no it doesn't
[17:38] <Quintasan> Laney: Yeah it's done
[17:38] <Laney> ♥
[17:38] <Quintasan> Unfortunately I was forgetful enough to send mail
[17:38] <Quintasan> I ACTUALLY configured ssmtp but forgot to use reportbug
[17:39] <Quintasan> how typical
[17:39] <Laney> where is it then?
[17:41] <Laney> GunnarHj: ok, there you go, sorry about that
[17:42] <Laney> I don't think the end result of those two postinsts is so different though
[17:42] <seb128> desrt, package coming from Debian that we splitted without changing the description?
[17:43] <GunnarHj> Laney: No, it's not different at all. The only advantage is that it's almost identical with the Debian postinst.
[17:43] <Laney> ack
[17:43] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for fixing it!
[17:44] <GunnarHj> Laney: Hoping to be able to start autosync soon.
[17:44] <desrt> seb128: no.  stupid mistake on my part
[17:45] <desrt> seb128: installing chrony resulted in ntp uninstalling, but because of the weird handling of /etc files, dpkg -L made it look like i still had the package installed
[17:45] <desrt> since there was still a bunch of files -- just not /usr/sbin/ntpd
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, I see
[17:45] <Quintasan> Laney: Can you change GTK_IM_MODULE=Maliit to GTK_IM_MODULE=meego-im in debian/xinput/maliit in maliit-framework and upload? According to upstream it will not work
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, what's the point of/motivation behind chrony?
[17:46] <Laney> seems to work for me
[17:46] <desrt> seb128: ntpd kinda assumes a constant connection to the network
[17:46] <Laney> Quintasan: but yeah, sure — tomorrow though
[17:46] <desrt> seb128: and also that waking up every second is a reasonable thing to do
[17:46] <desrt> ie: it's for servers
[17:46] <Quintasan> Laney: Wait, if it works for you then I will make sure upstream is REALLY sure it will not work
[17:46] <desrt> chrony uses less battery and is better suited to machines that have a network connection that comes and goes
[17:46] <desrt> also uses less memory (~1.5MB compared to 6)
[17:47] <Laney> I was getting the OSK, yeah
[17:47] <Laney> I might have borked my system in some special way though
[17:47] <desrt> it misses some ntpd features though like support for timeserver authentication and various hardware-based time devices
[17:47] <Laney> if that other thing works and upstream recommends it thenw we might as well goferit
[17:47] <seb128> desrt, why is it needed at all (compared to our approch of ntpdating on connect)?
[17:47] <desrt> seb128: it's not.  just investigating alternatives.
[17:47] <seb128> desrt, gotcha, thanks
[17:47] <desrt> fedora and arch recently switched to it
[17:48] <desrt> (and fwiw, i don't like our ntpdate approach)
[17:48] <seb128> desrt, please tell me it's not written in python ;-)
[17:48] <desrt> perl
[17:48] <seb128> ahah
[17:48] <desrt> shell
[17:48]  * seb128 looks at calendar
[17:48] <desrt> cobol!
[17:48] <seb128> not friday yet!
[17:48] <desrt> seb128: anyway...
[17:48] <desrt> i have my systemd faker thingy
[17:49] <desrt> and it's enough to allow timedated to start
[17:49] <desrt> and also to reliably report if ntpd is enabled (using more or less the same mechanism as g-s-d used to have)
[17:49] <desrt> and also enable/disable it
[17:49] <jibel> chrisccoulson, thanks, but it's blocking on me :/ I planned to finish this before my holidays which is end of this week.
[17:50] <jbicha> desrt: nice, I tried installing systemd-services but it didn't seem to be enough for timedated or hostnamed
[17:50] <seb128> desrt, did you read slangasek's concern that having a service "faking" systemd might trick into programs to think that dbus is available since it's on the bus?
[17:50] <desrt> seb128: yes.  already found one case of that, in fact
[17:50] <desrt> gnome-settings-daemon is asking about the 'virtualisation' propery
[17:51] <seb128> desrt, I wonder if we should rather patch datetimed to do something else if systemd is not on the bus
[17:51] <desrt> seb128: i considered this
[17:51] <desrt> but the 'something' is pretty gross in our case
[17:51] <desrt> i also think that maybe we should make this a general-purpose shim
[17:51] <desrt> ie: i want to add support for the virtualisation property next
[17:52] <seb128> desrt, hum, I would assume that the something would be to do a similar check on an interface we provide in upstart or somewhere else in our stack
[17:52] <desrt> seb128: you'd think.....
[17:52] <desrt> seb128: this was my first thought
[17:53] <desrt> turns out upstart doesn't know anything about ntp
[17:53] <desrt> it's all based on calls to update-rc.d and renaming files in /etc/network/if-up.d/
[17:53] <seb128> well, it's an init system, I guess it doesn't know about specific jobs
[17:53] <desrt> well
[17:53] <desrt> it knows about some things
[17:53] <desrt> but it looks like ntpd was never upstartified
[17:54] <desrt> and the ntpdate-on-ifup hack we have is probably not even upstartable
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> jibel, sure, no worries. just let me know if there's anything i can do :)
[17:54] <jibel> chrisccoulson, found the problem with failed tests. Some one fixed bug 621977
[17:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 621977 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "If deb-src lines are going to be added automatically, they shouldn't be enabled and slowing down apt-get update." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621977
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> jibel, aha
[17:55] <seb128> desrt, already, I trust you to come with something working in any case, good luck ;-)
[17:55] <Quintasan> Laney: <mikhas> that's news to me <mikhas> but if it works, all the better
[17:55] <Quintasan> Well
[17:55] <Quintasan> If it ain't broke then don't fix it
[17:56] <Laney> does it work for you?
[17:56] <desrt> seb128: let me paste you what i have
[17:56] <jibel> I'll fix that in auto-pacakge-testing
[17:57] <desrt> seb128: http://fpaste.org/ItL7/ more or less
[17:57] <desrt> seb128: this works now, already
[17:57] <desrt> obviously it's rough
[17:58] <desrt> i guess we will want a new package for this...
[17:58] <Quintasan> Laney: I did not test it after the update
[17:58] <Quintasan> Laney: Let me try it.
[17:58] <desrt> probably also we will want some kind of security because right now all of the requests are utterly unauthenticated
[17:58] <Laney> Quintasan: OK, and feel free to upload any fixes yourself
[17:59] <Laney> I'll sync it all back to Debian once NEW thaws a bit
[17:59] <seb128> desrt, great, it's a bit hackish, but it does the job (and I've no better suggestion)
[17:59] <Quintasan> Laney: Mmmkay, so I'll ping you once I'm done brea...err...fixing the package :)
[17:59] <seb128> desrt, I'm still a bit concerned about stuff being tricked by "systemd" being on the bus, but let's see how that goes
[17:59] <Laney> Quintasan: FYI I was told that im-config stuff should be kept in im-config itself
[17:59] <Laney> so you do want a Debian bug report there
[18:00] <Quintasan> I just did, now I'm waiting for the maintainer to tell me if those config files are actually good
[18:00] <Laney> cool
[18:41] <seb128> desrt,
[18:41] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/gdk-pixbuf/2.27.1-1ubuntu1
[18:41] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/3002628/+listing-archive-extra
[18:41] <seb128> desrt, getting closer ;-)
[19:09] <desrt> seb128: nice :)
[20:14] <ricotz> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/933641
[20:14] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 933641 in gtk+3.0 "Enable broadway (HTML5) backend" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[20:15] <seb128> ricotz, what about it?
[20:15] <ricotz> seb128, hi, it is already enable in the gnome3-staging
[20:15] <ricotz> and would be nice to have it enabled in the archive too
[20:15] <seb128> ricotz, you are welcome to file a merge request with the change if you want to see it in Ubuntu ;-)
[20:16] <ricotz> seb128, ok, i actually hoped you would look at the ppa too ;)
[20:16] <seb128> well, I might but I'm very busy, so it might take a while
[20:17] <seb128> having a merge request would increase your chances to get a review ;-)
[20:17] <ricotz> seb128, hmm, that is kind of the reason of the ppa, so don't let it go to waste by ignoring it :\
[20:18] <seb128> GNOME doesn't look at our package to see what patches we have if we don't submit them
[20:18] <seb128> Debian sometime do but mostly don't
[20:18] <seb128> usually it's good taste for "downstream/derivative" work to file merge requests/send patches to their upstream
[20:19] <ricotz> i guess i need to do some patch then
[20:19] <seb128> especially that you tend to not do a great job in documenting the changes in your changelog
[20:19] <seb128> so it requires detective work to understand the changesets
[20:19] <seb128> like why you commented patches
[20:19] <seb128> is that because they don't apply
[20:19] <ricotz> seb128, this is the gnome3-staging ppa so all changes are documented
[20:19] <seb128> or because you didn't want to update them
[20:20] <seb128> like your gtk update commented the "turn off a11y when exiting mainloop" change
[20:20] <seb128> no they are not
[20:20] <seb128> did you comment that gtk patch because it was hard to update? or because it's not needed?
[20:20] <seb128> the changelog doesn't say
[20:20] <ricotz> hmm, i see, sorry i don't recall
[20:21] <seb128> ricotz, no worry, it just makes hard to "grab from the ppa"
[20:21] <ricotz> anyhow this shows you had a look and should have stumbled over the broadway bug
[20:22] <seb128> well, I have a look and determine if the work to figure out what you did is higher than the work to do it again
[20:22] <seb128> in the gtk case they got the update in experimental so I used that as a start point instead
[20:22] <ricotz> ok, nevermind then
[20:23] <seb128> I still think you should use a vcs at least for your work
[20:23] <seb128> e.g in the pango case it would have been useful
[20:23] <seb128> but by the time we looked at it you had your work thrown away and we couldn't useit
[20:23] <ricotz> i have a bzr branch here, but unfortunately i am not committing every single change
[20:23] <Laney> if you work within our processes then there's a chance one day you can get upload rights directly
[20:24] <ricotz> it is not like i never proposed merges
[20:25] <ricotz> unfortunately they werent reviewed for some reason
[20:25] <seb128> keep doing it, we might not be perfect but we appreciate when you do
[20:26] <seb128> if you ping on the channel with a merge request we will review it for sure
[20:26] <seb128> sorry if some got screwed in the past
[20:26] <ricotz> seb128, ok, current there is not much to propose while 3.8 won't make it in to raring
[20:27] <ricotz> and those occasional fixes are mostly not maintained in a vcs
[20:27] <seb128> ricotz, we will probably get some of 3.8, at least apps, soon
[20:27] <ricotz> e.g harfbuzz ;)
[20:27] <seb128> ricotz, you should talk to jbicha, he found a way to get back the work he's doing in the archive in an efficient way ;-)
[20:28] <seb128> it's still on my todolist
[20:28] <ricotz> ok
[20:28] <seb128> I just don't like to jump on new version, giving a bit of time for outside to find issues if there is any :p
[20:29] <ricotz> i see, but getting reports of bugs which might be already fixed, seems not useful ;)
[20:30] <seb128> yeah, it's a balance between bugs and regressions ;-)
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> qengho, you'll be pleased to know, i've massively slowed down the chromium build here ;)
[20:30] <seb128> you know that the bugs you have are not stoppers
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> (by turning on debug symbols)
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> :)
[20:30] <ricotz> seb128, ok
[20:32] <jbicha> ricotz: we could revive the gnome3 bzr branches
[20:33] <ricotz> jbicha, yeah, maybe
[20:41] <qengho> chrisccoulson: oh, good.  That is a relief.  It was just too speedy.
[20:42] <doomlord> can ubuntu's windowmanager respond to laptop 2-finger gestures on the window desktop & window titlebars - eg bind 2 finger-trackpad-drag on desktop to desktop-switching/expo, or bind 2finger-trackpad-drag on titlebar to lower-window
[21:23] <qengho> modprobe SEGV. That's encouraging.


[00:00] <AnrDaemon> :F
[00:01] <AnrDaemon> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#env
[00:01] <SteenJobs> well there ya go haha
[00:07] <SteenJobs> AnrDaemon: dude!!!!!
[00:07] <AnrDaemon> Sure?
[00:07] <SteenJobs> ok - i finally got running bundle exec god status in the proj dir to == service god status
[00:07] <SteenJobs> and starting the job works
[00:08] <SteenJobs> only odd thing, is once again after running service god start, i run service god status and it returns stop/waiting
[00:08] <AnrDaemon> I hear "but" in your wake.
[00:08] <SteenJobs> haha
[00:08] <AnrDaemon> Sounds like it is detaching.
[00:08] <AnrDaemon> When you initctl stasrt, it tells you the PID it was tracking.
[00:08] <SteenJobs> yet bundle exec god status still knows that it’s running somehow
[00:09] <SteenJobs> yep
[00:09] <AnrDaemon> Check the running bundle, and its pid/ppid.
[00:09] <AnrDaemon> If it forks regardless of your intent and specification, you may either need to revise your switches, or play with expect.
[00:10] <SteenJobs> when i started, PID was 22221, but checking ps aux has “root 22512 /home/root/apps/my_app/shared/bundle/ruby/2.3.0/bin/god
[00:14] <AnrDaemon> ppid?
[00:14] <SteenJobs> fixed
[00:14] <SteenJobs> please don’t kill me
[00:15] <SteenJobs> i forgot the -D
[00:15] <SteenJobs> :-D
[00:15] <SteenJobs> i meant that to come out in text form, it would’ve been an emoji pun
[00:15] <SteenJobs> ok, adding respawn and let’s see what happens when i kill it
[00:15] <SteenJobs> this is the line that saved it btw: exec bash -l -c '/usr/local/rvm/bin/rvm default do bundle exec god -D -c config/app.god -l log/god.log'
[00:16] <AnrDaemon> That's wrong line.
[00:16] <SteenJobs> holy crap it all works
[00:16] <AnrDaemon> Remove bash, start it directly.
[00:16] <SteenJobs> but i’m listening
[00:17] <AnrDaemon> Else it will be tracking bash PID, not your service PID.
[00:17] <SteenJobs> AnrDaemon: look at the bottom of this - http://www.grant-olson.net/news/2014/03/20/upstart_config_for_god.html - i wasn’t sure exactly why they use that, but i figured i’d give it a shot. i’ll remove it and see what happens.
[00:17] <SteenJobs> although i ran kill -9 PID after adding respawn, checked status, and it’s running
[00:18] <AnrDaemon> They are deeply mistaken, that's all.
[00:18] <AnrDaemon> If it needs $HOME, then define env HOME=/...
[00:18] <SteenJobs> right
[00:18] <SteenJobs> learned that already :)
[00:18] <SteenJobs> but i meant at the bottom, they explain the bash line
[00:19] <AnrDaemon> bash -l makes it act as login shell, settign environment and all that stuff.
[00:19] <AnrDaemon> Suffice to say, I've managed to start VirtualBox via upstart :P
[00:19] <SteenJobs> haha word
[00:20] <SteenJobs> yea, but rvm requires that kind of enivornment loading
[00:20] <SteenJobs> i removed bash -l -c
[00:20] <SteenJobs> and it broke things
[00:20] <SteenJobs> it now shuts down immediately again
[00:21] <AnrDaemon> If it actually reuires that, whoever wrote it must be lashed and chained to the table until it fix the thing right.
[00:22] <SteenJobs> i lied
[00:22] <SteenJobs> it’s because i didn’t remove the quotes
[00:22] <SteenJobs> smh
[00:22] <SteenJobs> we’re in business
[00:22] <SteenJobs> you are a champ, truly
[00:24] <SteenJobs> AnrDaemon: aright, i’m really really late for my dinner so i gotta run, but honestly thank you so much. you can’t even begin to understand how much i appreciate the help.
[16:45] <SteenJobs> hey room that saved my butt yesterday - when setting setuid/setgid to deploy on my production server, when starting my service, my Rails config files throw a “non-absolute home” error…any idea why?
[16:52] <AnrDaemon> Did you set HOME to an absolute path in your job config?
[17:00] <SteenJobs> haha hey :)
[17:01] <SteenJobs> nope - ran echo $HOME and it gives me /home/deploy
[17:01] <SteenJobs> so it’s not even set within the God config file
[17:01] <SteenJobs> meaning i don’t set it there, since it’s already set
[17:01] <SteenJobs> (tried adding HOME anyway, as /home/deploy, and it didn’t work either…only thing that worked was removing setgid/setuid)
[17:05] <AnrDaemon> I mean, did you set "env HOME=/whatver/something" in the init script?
[17:08] <SteenJobs> AnrDaemon: ahh, no, i was setting RAILS_ROOT which i thought was missing, but that sounds like what was missing - will give it a go
[17:09] <AnrDaemon> If these idiots run "bash -l" to start their service, then the most likely missing bit is user environmant, particularly $HOME.
[17:11] <SteenJobs> hahah
[17:12] <SteenJobs> tis why despite using resources i find online, IRC is always my last step, both to learn things that i couldn’t find, and to verify those things i did find
[17:12] <SteenJobs> IRC is basically how i learned how to legitimately code
[17:21] <AnrDaemon> Legi... wat.


[18:19] <ion> Woot, an implementation of Cucumber for Erlang. That’ll be useful for me. http://github.com/northscale/cucumberl/blob/master/features/sample.feature http://github.com/northscale/cucumberl/blob/master/src/sample.erl
[18:47] <sadmac2> Keybuk: suppose I have a job A, and a job B that's start on starting A, and B has post-start exec stop
[18:47] <sadmac2> post-start exec stop A *
[18:47] <sadmac2> Keybuk: expected behavior, IMHO, is that B prevents A from starting, and runs instead.
[18:48] <sadmac2> Keybuk: actual behavior is not, what are your thoughts.
[18:52] <Keybuk> that a bug was filed about that yesterday
[18:53] <sadmac2> Keybuk: probably by rstrode notting or plautrba :)
[18:54] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I'd have filed it but I thought I might've just been doing it wrong.
[18:54]  * sadmac2 doesn't see it in his launchpad mail
[18:56] <Keybuk> no, by one of our developers
[18:57] <sadmac2> Keybuk: hmm. funny we hit that at the same time.
[19:00] <Keybuk> might be in a slightly different way
[19:00] <Keybuk> but basically trying to do the same things
[19:01] <sadmac2> think B ended up killing itself instead of A
[19:02] <notting> sadmac2: correct,that's what happened AFAICT
[19:02] <notting> sadmac2: erm
[19:02] <notting> if you pass --no-wait, it stops itself. if you don't pass --no-wait, it hangs :)
[19:04] <sadmac2> ah
[19:05] <sadmac2> that makes sense. Its waiting for itself to stop, which can't happen because it can't progress beyond post-start until its done waiting
[19:05] <sadmac2> my first thought was that it was ignoring the argument and stopping $UPSTART_JOB instead of the target
[19:06] <sadmac2> but that all looks right.
[19:06] <sadmac2> come to think of it, running initctl stop with no arguments will cause some funny things won't it...
[19:07] <sadmac2> depending on where you do it.
[19:07] <Keybuk> no.
[19:08] <sadmac2> Keybuk: whatever terminal you are running is most likely the descendant of some upstart task, so it probably has an UPSTART_JOB of god knows what (most likely the getty or X session, which is actually ok)
[19:10] <Keybuk> ?
[19:10] <Keybuk> UPSTART_JOB isn't used if the command has arguments
[19:10] <sadmac2> Keybuk: right. so if you happen to type "stop" in a terminal with no arguments, the results might be strange.
[19:11] <Keybuk> sometimes
[19:11] <Keybuk> in practice, most top-level things are good at sanitising their environment before running things like shells
[19:11] <sadmac2> good to know.
[19:11] <Keybuk> PAM does it, for example
[19:11] <Keybuk> so if you have a PAM session, you have the env cleaned up
[19:12] <sadmac2> polkit I'd assume the same?
[19:14] <Keybuk> right
[19:56] <smoser> Keybuk, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ec2/+bug/510130 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ec2/+bug/510130
[20:09] <JanC> smoser: that's 2x the same (guess you wanted to point to 2 different bugs)
[20:09] <smoser> oops.
[20:10] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/509841 was the other
[21:29] <traviscline> does anyone have an example nginx upstart file?
[21:38] <traviscline> anybody have an apache upstart example?
[21:41] <traviscline> it seems to me having more examples of typical servers would be a Good Thing
[21:42] <sadmac2> traviscline: upstart changes api a lot. The result is we don't encourage people to actually /use/ it per se :)
[21:42] <traviscline> i just upgraded from 0.3.9 and was using it for apache and varnish
[21:42] <sadmac2> traviscline: what distro?
[21:42] <traviscline> but upped to 0.6.2 so i could use the expect fork / daemon stuff
[21:42] <traviscline> ubuntu, 9.10
[21:43] <traviscline> when starting nginx (which daemonizes) with expect daemon the start just hangs
[21:43] <traviscline> even though it starts it
[21:43] <sadmac2> traviscline: doesn't it come with startup scripts? are you building yourself?
[21:43] <sadmac2> traviscline: try expect fork instead.
[21:43] <traviscline> i did, trying again
[21:44] <traviscline> start hangs
[21:44] <traviscline> with expect fork
[21:44] <traviscline> and doesn't start it
[21:45] <traviscline> ctl-c'd it -- it thinks the job is running now
[21:45] <traviscline> stopping hangs
[21:45] <sadmac2> traviscline: are you sure this job is running?
[21:45] <sadmac2> *forking
[21:46] <traviscline> ctl-c'd - marked as not running
[21:46] <traviscline> when i just run 'nginx' it returns immediately
[21:46] <traviscline> and starts at least 2 processes
[21:47] <traviscline> running both start and stop with -v produce no additional output
[21:48] <traviscline> here's strace output https://gist.github.com/586c7d3aff64c7e46429
[21:49] <sadmac2> traviscline: no clone call
[21:49] <traviscline> that does mark the job as running though
[21:50] <traviscline> sadmac2: sorry, not familiar
[21:50] <traviscline> is that nginx's fault?
[21:50] <sadmac2> traviscline: the strace doesn't show anything forking. at all.
[21:51] <traviscline> sadmac2: https://gist.github.com/586c7d3aff64c7e46429 that's it when i don't run it with start
[21:51] <traviscline> this is my job https://gist.github.com/084de4d8d90ab87d6cc9
[21:52] <sadmac2> traviscline: there's no use stracing the start command.
[21:52] <traviscline> ok
[21:52] <traviscline> any input on debugging paths?
[21:52] <traviscline> or should i punt because upstart isn't ready for real use?
[21:53] <sadmac2> traviscline: try strace -f
[21:54] <traviscline> output looks appoximately the same
[21:54] <traviscline> approximately*
[21:54] <sadmac2> ...that's not right...
[21:54] <sadmac2> that makes no sense in fact
[21:54] <sadmac2> it should tell you what both sides of the fork do
[21:55] <traviscline> sadmac2: with -f https://gist.github.com/586c7d3aff64c7e46429
[21:55] <sadmac2> traviscline: no start
[21:55] <traviscline> or did you want that on vanilla nginx (not start)
[21:55] <traviscline> gotcha
[21:56] <sadmac2> traviscline: stracing start makes no sense. It'll just tell us what the start command is doing. It tells us nothing about nginx
[21:56] <traviscline> sadmac2: i see, sorry. https://gist.github.com/586c7d3aff64c7e46429 there it is with -f
[21:59] <sadmac2> expect fork should do it.
[21:59] <sadmac2> something odd happens to the first fork though
[22:00] <sadmac2> Keybuk: any idea what's up with 6396 in that strace?
[22:06] <traviscline> might be the same as this https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397
[22:06] <traviscline> anyhow, it looks like there isn't an easy fix and i'll just use supervised to keep services up
[22:06] <traviscline> or something like it
[22:31] <Keybuk> sadmac2: probably getting stuck with fork following
[22:31] <Keybuk> either by SIGCHLD handler, or because the job does something weird
[22:31] <Keybuk> like fork/exec something else first
[22:47] <sadmac> Keybuk: figured that much. It is weird in that we end up with two daemon processes, but with expect fork I'd think we'd be done tracing before that stuff happened


[01:25] <ghittsum> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.PermissionsInvalid: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct
[01:25] <ghittsum> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:26] <ghittsum> hello
[01:26] <ghittsum> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.PermissionsInvalid: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct
[01:26] <ghittsum> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:26] <ghittsum>  Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.PermissionsInvalid: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct
[01:26] <ghittsum> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:26] <ghittsum> hello
[01:26] <ghittsum> I can't talk?
[01:27] <well_laid_lawn> ghittsum: sure you can
[01:31] <ghittsum> lol
[01:31] <ghittsum> njfklhjaslkfjd a
[01:39] <semitones_tea> is there any problem using Pulse audio with kubuntu?
[01:43] <DaemonFC> no, it's been properly integrated with KDE for a while now
[02:03] <joycetick> Hi, im unable to install anything because apparently something is accessing the package system. Is there any way of finding out what it is because comes back after boot
[02:03] <joycetick> *because it comes back after boot
[02:13] <claydoh_> joycetick: could be a 'stuck' lock file: please run sudo apt-get install <packagename> and the error should show which file to delete, if that is the problem
[02:15] <joycetick> thanks claydoh
[02:18] <joycetick> ~quit
[03:07] <asobi> http://old.nabble.com/-Bug-231170--New%3A-KPackageKit---The-query-is-not-valid-td27939457.html having this problem except it doesn't crash
[03:07] <asobi> tried https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parted/+bug/535368 but still no good :/
[03:29] <jack_> hello
[03:30] <jack_> is there anyone home
[03:30] <jack_> no mic here sorry
[03:30] <jack_> have to type
[03:30] <jack_> im new here
[03:31] <jack_> hello out there
[03:53] <musings> anyone have tips on increasing kde's performance?
[03:54] <musings> also, anyone get flicker when full screening youtube vids?
[03:54] <musings> seems to only happen in KDE for me
[05:09] <seshagiri> Hello everyone, I am trying to install VMWare player on Kubuntu 11.04. Some how i manged to installed the VMWare, but when i launched the application, it is asking for the directory of the kernel header. I am running Linux-<IP_ADDRESS>-generic. I gave the directory as usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-10-generic/include. But still it is not working. could some one please help me?
[05:10] <Lithos84> !vmware | seshagiri
[05:11] <seshagiri> Oh! Thanks for the information.
[06:08] <GinoMan> Hey, I cp'ed my home folder to a folder on the windows partition of my laptop and it suddenly says "input/output error" and doesn't copy anything
[06:08] <GinoMan> or
[06:08] <GinoMan> to be clearer
[06:09] <GinoMan> I formatted the linux side and installed ubuntu and tried to copy it back and it's saying "input/output error"
[06:10] <GinoMan> for all the files
[06:10] <GinoMan> and I can't copy anything but the folders
[06:11] <well_laid_lawn> !info ntfs-3g
[06:15] <GinoMan> ... I'm not finding anything useful in the man page and and I refuse to read the info
[06:15] <valorie> !ntfs
[06:16] <GinoMan> valorie: mount -t ntfs /dev/sda2 /media/windows/
[06:18] <GinoMan> and other files like the clickpad driver (.deb) and the pdf about the xlib c library
[06:18] <GinoMan> they work
[06:20] <GinoMan> but as soon as you touch any files under /media/gino/LinuxFiles/gino/* you get Input/Output errors out the rear
[06:22] <valorie> sorry, I know how to use the bot
[06:22] <valorie> that's about it
[06:23] <well_laid_lawn> GinoMan: have you tried checking a file in the mount with  file /path/to/file   ?
[06:26] <GinoMan> not yet
[06:26] <GinoMan> gimme a sec
[06:27] <GinoMan> android-logo-creator.jpg: ERROR: cannot open `android-logo-creator.jpg' (Input/output error)
[06:31] <sea4ever> How strange ginoman, maybe something is funny with the disk?
[06:31] <sea4ever> The output of the 'mount' command shows that it is mounted rw, yes?
[06:31] <GinoMan> hang on...
[06:32] <GinoMan> the same partition works with other files on the same parition
[06:33] <well_laid_lawn> try   ls -lh /path/to/file   and check size and owner
[06:33] <sea4ever> How strange.
[06:34] <sea4ever> Maybe that portion of your disk has bad sectors?
[06:34] <sea4ever> That seems unlikely though.
[06:35] <GinoMan> the directories read but not the files
[06:36] <GinoMan> the files get Input/Output errors
[06:36] <sea4ever> That's bizarre
[06:36] <well_laid_lawn> what did ls -lh return?
[06:36] <sea4ever> ^^ Do as well_laid_lawn says, but I think that you should umount the windows partition and do an ntfsfix <device name of partition> on it.
[06:36] <sea4ever> Or fsck.ntfs devnameofpartition.
[06:37] <GinoMan> ls: cannot access /media/windows/LinuxFiles/gino/android-logo-creator.jpg: Input/output error
[06:37] <well_laid_lawn> k
[06:37] <sea4ever> That's truly a bizarre error
[06:43] <GinoMan> hang on, I used fix and now I'm gonna reboot a couple times
[06:43] <sea4ever> couple times?
[06:43] <sea4ever> You only need to reboot once..
[06:43] <sea4ever> If at all
[06:49] <Alik> 123qwe
[06:51] <vpaulv_> :)
[07:36] <robbiethe1st> Ok guys, I
[07:37] <robbiethe1st> Ok guys, I have a LiveUSB install, which works. I'd like to remove the "try/install" boot screen(only live boot) and the other try/install screen during the boot process
[08:11] <jorrik> hello everyone. i know i can use KDE's settings to create shortcuts to open various programs (eg i setup WINDOWS+SPACE to open a konsole connected to a screen session), but i was wondering how to avoid conflict with existing keyboard shortcuts.
[08:12] <jorrik> is there a standard that's being used across KDE for shortcuts that need to work regardless of the window? eg ctrl+alt+? or something like that? i can sense that if i just make ctrl+d the shortcut to open dolphin it's going to cause issues with some programs, but how would i know in advance?
[08:23] <GinoMan> ok... done
[08:23] <GinoMan> windows fixed the filesystem, then installed servicepack 1
[08:23] <GinoMan> all the files in /media/windows/LinuxFiles/gino/ are gone
[08:24] <GinoMan> the directory structure is still there but the rest is gone
[08:24] <GinoMan> I'm going to bed
[08:24] <GinoMan> I'll try and figure this out tomorrow
[08:24] <GinoMan> fml
[08:30] <valorie> !shortcuts
[08:30] <valorie> jorrik: ^^^
[10:42] <_ven> hi everyone.plz tell me how to write a .desktop file  for dolphin file manager in kubuntu 11.04?How to use it to create a new option in right-click menu?
[10:47] <Peace-> _ven:
[10:47] <Peace-> _ven: are your here? well i will write anyway... it's pretty easy you could find a lots of example
[10:48] <Peace-> _ven: this one http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/AudioVideoinfo-qt?content=107335
i m here.thnx for reply
[10:48] <Peace-> but thre is even the tutorial on kde website
[10:49] <_ven> Peace-:thanx. i wil go with tat also.
[10:50] <Peace-> _ven: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10667
[10:51] <Peace-> _ven: btw i am nowardev :D
[10:53] <_ven> Peace-:is tat ur real name?
[10:54] <Peace-> yes
[10:54] <_ven> nowardev:where r u from?
[10:55] <Peace-> italy
[10:56] <_ven> nowardev:i m from India.r u a student?
[10:56] <szal> Peace-, _ven: please join #kubuntu-offtopic for chatting about this & that, this here is support only
[10:57] <Peace-> szal: you right
[10:58] <_ven> szal:oops i m sorry.its my first irc chat.
[11:05] <_ven> nowardev:i went thro the link u provided.after typing commnd " ~/.kde4/share/kde4/services/ServiceMenus" i m getting as "no such file or directory exists"
[11:06] <Peace-> _ven: mm?
[11:09] <Peace-> _ven: copy  on $HOME/.kde/share/kde4/services
[11:09] <Peace-> _ven: then to update the menus on dolphin ... close dolphin
[11:09] <Peace-> _ven: and run kbuildsycoca4
[11:20] <venu> nowardev:r u ther?
[11:22] <venu> Hi everyone.plz tell me how to write a .desktop file and how to use it to create a new option in right-click menu?
[11:40] <venu_> nowarmdev:r u ther?
[11:47] <venu_> hi everyone.When i give this commnd "~/.kde4/share/kde/services/ServiceMenus" i wil get err as "no such file or directory".plz tell me wat to do?
[11:49] <szal> venu_: check the path, you mixed something up
[11:51] <venu_> szal: sorry. its "~/.kde4/share/kde4/services/ServiceMenus"
[12:14] <TheLastProject> Am I getting colorblind or are colors slightly different in Firefox on my Kubuntu?...
[12:17] <robbiethe1st> TheLastProject, colors /in the page/ or theme colors?
[12:17] <TheLastProject> On the webpage
[12:17] <TheLastProject> I know the font is different, but I believe the colors are different as well o-o
[12:17] <robbiethe1st> Only thing I can think of is color-correction in your monitor
[12:17] <robbiethe1st> and or driver
[12:17] <TheLastProject> Not really complaining, but I hope to know if it's true or not or if I'm getting colorblind or so
[12:18] <TheLastProject> Hmmm, possibly my ATI driver then
[12:18] <robbiethe1st> If it
[12:18] <robbiethe1st> Both Windows and Linux allow custom color profiles
[12:18] <TheLastProject> I don't believe my monitor would have different correction on Linux and Windows
[12:18] <robbiethe1st> If you had one set but not the other...
[12:18] <TheLastProject> I have the default ones on both
[12:18] <robbiethe1st> hm
[12:18] <robbiethe1st> well, use the color-correction feature to "fix" it?
[12:19] <TheLastProject> Hmmm, guess I should check into that o,o
[12:19] <TheLastProject> But good to know this is possible
[12:19] <TheLastProject> I'm not getting colorblind then :P
[12:19] <TheLastProject> (Just weird to see someone type "my replies are in pink" on a forum when it is clearly purple)
[12:29] <jchu> Question regarding kwin and opengl shaders
[12:29] <jchu> Is a set of four "kwin(2390): Shaders are not supported" error messages after doing a kwin --replace with an ATI Radeon HD 9650 on Catalyst 11-8?
[12:29] <jchu> *expected/normal
[12:48] <BluesKaj> howdy folks
[14:00] <sindopx> hi all
[14:01]  * sindopx anak indo
[16:08] <Taggnostr2> on my notebook I sometimes get a popup that says "wireless hardware disabled" immediately followed by "wireless hardware enabled", this might happen even a few times for minutes, or work fine for hours, do you know what could be the cause?
[16:10] <Taggnostr2> the switch to turn wireless on/off has some problems, however the hardware gets disabled/enabled even if I'm not touching the pc at all, and once the problem went away for a while after a reboot
[16:11] <Taggnostr2> also when it says "disabled" it always get enabled immediately, so I don't think it's switch going out of place
[16:12] <Taggnostr2> the switch*
[16:13] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: There are some internal wireless cards which are actually USB, like Realtek 8187 for instance. In those cases when the device is not being used for a period of time, the system puts it into auto-suspend
[16:14] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, it happens even while I'm using it
[16:15] <Taggnostr2> fwiw the light on the switch goes off too
[16:15] <OerHeks> maybe it is not disabling your hardware, just lost connection ?
[16:15] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: When it disconnects/reconnects, is there some message being added to dmesg output?
[16:16] <Taggnostr2> the popup says "wireless hardware disabled", and I had the same problem with different connections
[16:16] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, let me check
[16:17] <Taggnostr2> there are some messages about high speed USB devices, not sure if they are related
[16:21] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: Perhaps to pastebin
[16:24] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, I selected "sleep" from the menu, and when I logged in again I saw the disabled/enabled message again, and in dmesg, after "restarting tasks... done"  there is: "ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready" "usb 4-1: USB disconnect, address 12" "btusb_intr_complete: hci0 urb ffff.... failed to resubmit (19)"  then two more messages that says the same thing but with bulk instead of intr, "btusb_send_frame: hci0 urb fff... submission
[16:24] <Taggnostr2> failed" "usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 13"
[16:24] <Taggnostr2> the previous messages are similar, and the address keep increasing
[16:25] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: Looks symptomatic of what I explained earlier, computer puts USB into suspend automatically and network goes out
[16:25] <Taggnostr2> is there some place where I can set this and tell it to always keep it enabled?
[16:27] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: It takes a bit of poking around to find what usb device it is usually, but after that you can set the autosuspend value to be 0 in the /etc/network/interfaces file as a post-up command for that adapter
[16:28] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: In my box for instance, i have to do: post-up  echo 0 > /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/2-1/power/autosuspend    for my external usb network adapter for it to stay up
[16:29] <Taggnostr2> in interfaces I only have the loopback
[16:31] <Taggnostr2> before it used to work fine, just lately I started having this problem
[16:41] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: Please use the pastebin to show results of the commands: lsusb    and: cat  /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb4/id*        ..according to your "usb 4-1: USB disconnect, address 12"  message the adapter should likely be on the usb4 bus. But we need make sure by finding the proper idProduct and idVendor codes for it in the usb4 directory and then comparing that to what lsusb tells us it should be
[16:42] <genii-around> Apologies, work is calling me from my computer occasionally
[16:42] <genii-around> !pastebin
[16:45] <Taggnostr2> genii-around: http://paste.ubuntu.com/693169/
[16:45] <Taggnostr2> now I restarted and it seems to work fine
[16:46] <genii-around> Hm
[16:48] <macer1> apachelogger: ping
[16:49] <apachelogger> macer1: pong
[16:49] <macer1> Hi apachelogger, I watched your video about Dragon Player 3, it is so cool :D Will it be default in KDE 4.8?
[16:50] <apachelogger> nope
[16:50] <apachelogger> 4.9 at best
[16:50] <Taggnostr2> genii-around: http://paste.ubuntu.com/693174/
[16:50] <macer1> apachelogger, on what kde version was this recorded?
[16:50] <apachelogger> 4.6
[16:51] <macer1> is it compatible with oneiric/kde 4.7.1? I want to try it :)
[16:51]  * szal would rather be interested in KDE 4.7.1 packages for Natty ;)
[16:51]  * OerHeks too
[16:51] <apachelogger> macer1: feel free to, but don't expect any help :P
[16:52] <apachelogger> macer1: you'll need phonon git qml branch, phonon-gsteramer git qml branch, and my scratch dragon git repo (all on git.kde.org)
[16:52] <macer1> do you have a ppa?
[16:54] <macer1> apachelogger, there is no ppa?
[16:54] <apachelogger> nope
[16:55] <macer1> I think I will move to KDE for ever
[16:55] <macer1> GTK2 and 3 is just plain U G L Y
[16:57] <apachelogger> lol
[16:57] <apachelogger> :D
[16:59] <macer1> :D
[17:00] <macer1> unity 3D is so ugly compared to Unity 2D made in QML :(
[17:00] <BluesKaj> macer1, it's a matter of taste , we don't encourage those kinds of statements ..even about windows :)
[17:01] <macer1> BluesKaj, I know...but Qt have animations everywhere. This is the point.
[17:01] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: Please try: sudo modprobe -r iwl3945 && sudo modprobe iwl3945 disable_hw_scan=1         ..and then see if the connection keeps dropping or is more stable
[17:03] <BluesKaj> to me gnome has always been a bit too cartooney for my taste...if Qt wants to emulate gnome then i'll be looking at anew desktop env  real quick , macer1
[17:03] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, FATAL: Module disable_hw_scan=1 not found.
[17:04] <macer1> BluesKaj, what do you mean by that?
[17:09] <BluesKaj> guess I should say if Qt devs start loading gnome / gtk looks into kde ...that's the best way I can express it
[17:09] <szal> BluesKaj: ever seen KDE2 or early KDE3? ;)
[17:09] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: OK. So: kdesudo kate /etc/modrobe.d/iwl3945.conf          and a line there: options iwl3945 disable_hw_scan=1                          then save, and: sudo modprobe iwl3945
[17:09] <BluesKaj> yeah  szal ..I'd rather forget
[17:11] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, the file doesn't exist, should I create it?
[17:12] <BluesKaj> I've been with kubuntu since around 5.04/5.10 ...I've forgotten which , szal
[17:12] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: Yes. The idea is that option will be used each time the module loads.
[17:12] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, ok, I did the modprobe without errors, now I guess I'll have to wait and see if it gets better
[17:13]  * szal has been on KDE since Knoppix 3.3 and early Kanotix releases (late 2003/early 2004)
[17:14] <szal> BluesKaj: as for *buntu, I believe 5.10 (Breezy) was the first Kubuntu release
[17:14] <genii-around> Taggnostr2: OK. Perhaps occasionally to dmesg|tail and see if it is still doing connect/disconnect
[17:14] <Taggnostr2> genii-around, ok, thanks a lot in the meanwhile!
[17:15]  * OerHeks is fresh since 11.04, and Unity is the 2nd best thing that happened to Kubuntu
[17:15] <szal> BluesKaj: I had used 5.04 for a bit back then, and I used Ubuntu, indicating that Kubuntu wasn't there yet
[17:16] <BluesKaj> szal, my first linux experience was knoppix as well , but it was the live cd which didn't recognize my hardware and then tried it on a 233mhz pc with 128mb ram that I rescued from the trash ,at work ..that'when I was able to concentrate on the linux experience
[17:18] <szal> around that time too I remember trying FC1 and being totally appalled at Gnome
[17:18] <BluesKaj> 5.04 with kde , if I remember right ...but let'snot turn this into some kind of pi**ing contest
[17:18] <szal> heheh
[17:20] <BluesKaj> but kde was rough looking , gnome was strange to me ...coming from windows 3.1 and '95\
[17:20] <delight> I use network-manager-pptp-kde to log into a vpn. I would love to configure it in a way that only that i could still use my "real connection" for the internet and only the vpn-routers only for hosts in the vpn
[17:20] <szal> then I had Kubuntu 7.04, but the PPA system wasn't invented yet & it was pretty tedious to get KDE updates
[17:20] <delight> is that possible ?
[17:29] <marquee_> hello! i got a question: I got a sandybridge mobile processor, and was wondering if I should get the 64 bit kubuntu or the x86 version?
[17:30] <macer1> of course x64 marquee_  :)
[17:30] <marquee_> are all the compatability issues fixed?
[17:31] <marquee_> like for example, I was trying to get yahoo video/voice to work on my other laptop (also kubuntu), and it had issues with jasper saying that it was the wrong version
[17:31] <marquee_> is it worth the 64bit upgrade?
[17:31] <jmichaelx> marquee_: i have been using 64 bit for a few years now, and have had only very good experiences with 64 versus 32 bit... only exception being some annoyances with adobe flash
[17:32] <DarthFrog> Annoyances with Adobe Flash are hardly limited to 64 bit!
[17:32] <marquee_> ah for flash, I got that addon in firefox that fixes flash automatically
[17:33] <marquee_> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flash-aid/
[17:33] <marquee_> that fixed my flash probelm on my other laptop
[17:33] <jmichaelx> marquee_: yea, there are a few possible remedies for the flash issues... it isn't a huge deal
[17:33] <marquee_> the only issue i got left thats holding me back from installing 64bit on my new system
[17:33] <marquee_> is that whole video chat thing on yahoo
[17:33] <jmichaelx> yea, i have read about that addon, but have not used it yet
[17:33] <marquee_> it works wonders, jmichaelx
[17:34] <marquee_> do any of you guys use the yahoo messenger service?
[17:34] <OerHeks> IA32-libs solves a lot of issues
[17:34] <jmichaelx> what have you been using for yahoo video chat?
[17:34] <jmichaelx> yea
[17:34] <macer1> OerHeks, ia-32 is now deprecated.
[17:34] <macer1> btw
[17:34] <marquee_> what do you mean>? i use it to talk to my family
[17:35] <marquee_> i tried to troubleshoot myself, some say its a kopete thing
[17:35] <jmichaelx> marquee_: no, i mean what client have you been using in linux for yahoo video chat?
[17:35] <marquee_> kopete+jasper
[17:35] <jmichaelx> ahh, kopete... i have never gotten along very well with kopete
[17:35] <macer1> From oneiric, there is no ia32-libs, I think you just install it by apt-get install libwhatever:i386 :D
[17:35] <marquee_> what do you suggest?
[17:36] <marquee_> macer1, everytime I try to do that, it says wrong version (i386, system: amd64
[17:36] <marquee_> or somethign along those lines
[17:36] <jmichaelx> marquee_: i would no know for sure.... there is gyachi (whether or not it is still being maintained, i don't know)... it could also be that empathy can do yahoo video chat, but i'm not sure
[17:36] <macer1> marquee_,  that works in oneiric only
[17:37] <marquee_> whats oneiric?
[17:37] <macer1> !11.10
[17:37] <macer1> I only say for future, there will no be ia32-libs in 11.10 ;)
[17:37] <marquee_> ohhhhh the one coming out in a few weeks?
[17:38] <marquee_> so definitely get the 64bit version...(well, sounds like they leave no choice in the matter lol)
[17:38] <macer1> marass, yes
[17:38] <macer1> yes and yes
[17:38] <marquee_> k will do
[17:39] <marquee_> thanks for all the info guys, i'm gonna get it
[17:39] <marquee_> btw, I tried running yahoo messenger in wine as well
[17:39] <marquee_> that lead to epic fail X.X
[17:39] <marquee_> for my messenger needs, I've been stuck using skype
[17:39] <marquee_> since video chat works fine in kopete for skype
[17:39] <marquee_> but it would've been nice to get a working y-messenger
[17:39] <marquee_> l8erz :)
[17:40] <jmichaelx> marquee_: you should look into gyachi... it is not in the repos, but if you check the forums, you will likely be able to find a working .deb for it
[17:40] <marquee_> cool I'll do that jmichaelx
[17:40] <jmichaelx> marquee_: it is the closest thing to yahoo messenger that exists for linux
[17:40] <marquee_> alright, will do
[17:40] <BluesKaj> !multiarch
[17:40] <marquee_> I'll be back if I run into anymore questions :P
[17:40] <OerHeks> chromium has a plugin voor yahoo messenger, not an option ?
[17:41] <marquee_> oerheks, u caught me as I was leaving :(
[17:41] <jmichaelx> OerHeks: does it do video chat? chatrroms?
[17:41] <jmichaelx> chatrooms*
[17:41] <marquee_> but I tried it, it supports only text messaging
[17:41] <marquee_> but not video chat
[17:41] <marquee_> it has an invite to conference option, but the video chat is broken :/
[17:42] <OerHeks> video i don't kno, you could check it > https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hlbmghiihlelkhbccpinfjdfmeclcmfc?hc=search&hcp=main
[17:42] <OerHeks> ah
[17:42] <jmichaelx> gyachi usually works for video chat, and chatrooms... although the audio for the chatrooms usually doesn't work for me
[17:42] <marquee_> anyways i gotta go, "I'll BE BACK!" :P
[17:42] <jmichaelx> adios!
[17:42] <marquee_> thanks for the info guys
[17:42] <OerHeks> have fun
[17:43] <BlaXpirit> There are many new projects around KDE desktop, but they are all moving so slowly: Muon, Telepathy, rekonq... I'm looking forward to using those, but they don't have enough functions (and I don't even know how to install Telepathy and what it actually is). Any news?
[17:44] <BluesKaj> those of you interested in multiarch (multi architecture support ) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec
[17:45] <BlaXpirit> for example, I get some weird error in Muon when refreshing, rekonq doesn't have pinned tabs and extension support (which has been promised over a year ago)
[17:48] <chirag_d_gr8> how to reduce brightness of laptop?
[17:48] <BlaXpirit> chirag_d_gr8: what's that laptop called?
[17:48] <chirag_d_gr8> i have hhp pavi;ion g6 series laptop
[17:48] <chirag_d_gr8> hp pavilion*
[17:48] <BlaXpirit> Fn+F6  or Fn+Left
[17:49] <chirag_d_gr8> nothing happened
[17:49] <BlaXpirit> OK. Run this in terminal:
[17:49] <BlaXpirit> lsmod | grep ^i915
[17:49] <BlaXpirit> any output?
[17:50] <chirag_d_gr8> yes
[17:50] <BlaXpirit> ?
[17:50] <chirag_d_gr8> a coloured i915
[17:50] <BlaXpirit> O_o  coloured?
[17:50] <chirag_d_gr8> and after few spaces 514985  2
[17:50] <chirag_d_gr8> red coloured
[17:50] <BlaXpirit> great. so you probably have integrated Intel graphics card, which doesn't have brightness support, just like me.
[17:51] <chirag_d_gr8> i have ati dedicated graphic card :(
[17:51] <BlaXpirit> ati??
[17:51] <BlaXpirit> weird.
[17:51] <chirag_d_gr8> and lspci shows ati 6470 too in vga adaptors
[17:52] <BlaXpirit> umm ok. you may find this useful: http://askubuntu.com/questions/57236/
[17:52] <BlaXpirit> you could try the things listed in the answer, or see my answer below if nothing works
[17:52] <BlaXpirit> in the question* first
[17:52] <BlaXpirit> sry.
[17:53] <chirag_d_gr8> how to open this website? do i have to type this? open in new browser doesn't work
[17:54] <doeladministrato> I didn't expect so many people connected... that's even better
[17:54] <doeladministrato> I need help (obviously)
[17:55] <BlaXpirit> chirag_d_gr8: this shouldn't be too hard to type:  askubuntu.com/q/57236
[17:55] <doeladministrato> recently installed Kubuntu and looks great, but, I'm trying to have flash to see youtube
[17:55] <doeladministrato> install skype
[17:55] <doeladministrato> and install dropbox
[17:56] <chirag_d_gr8> BlaXpirit: sry for such a stupid ques
[17:56] <doeladministrato> seems like having the 64 version is trouble
[17:57] <BlaXpirit> so try if any of these files exist: /etc/X11/xorg.conf , /proc/acpi/video/VGA/LCD/brightness ; and try this thing in terminal: xbacklight -set 4
[17:58] <chirag_d_gr8> did not work :(
[17:59] <BlaXpirit> do those files exist??
[17:59] <BluesKaj> doeladministrato, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec
[17:59] <chirag_d_gr8> file does not exist
[17:59] <BlaXpirit> chirag_d_gr8: last thing that might work:
[17:59] <BlaXpirit> sudo setpci -s 00:02.0 F4.B=4
[18:00] <doeladministrato> BluesKaj, thanks, will check that out and be back
[18:00] <chirag_d_gr8> command not found
[18:01] <BlaXpirit> does it say you can install it? if yes, do it.
[18:01] <BlaXpirit> if nothing of the above works, we have 2 more difficult paths to try :(
[18:01] <chirag_d_gr8> no it asked for nothing just handed me control for next command for execution
[18:01] <BlaXpirit> strange
[18:02] <chirag_d_gr8> life is not easy in linux :)
[18:02] <BlaXpirit> chirag_d_gr8: OK, i just read that the fix i found also applies to some Radeon stuff
[18:02] <BlaXpirit> i'm afraid you'll have to do this: http://askubuntu.com/q/57236#58088
[18:02] <chirag_d_gr8> ok...
[18:03] <BlaXpirit> if you encounter any problems, drop me a message.
[18:04] <chirag_d_gr8> ok
[18:06] <chirag_d_gr8> for 10 i set my brightness to 5
[18:06] <chirag_d_gr8> but no change....
[18:06] <BlaXpirit> what?
[18:07] <chirag_d_gr8> i mean i reduced my brigghtness from 10 to 5 but i notice no change
[18:07] <BlaXpirit> where? how?
[18:07] <BlaXpirit> you haven't done the thin i sent a link to, have you?
[18:07] <BlaXpirit> it takes some time o_o
[18:07] <BlaXpirit> read carefully
[18:07] <chirag_d_gr8> from the website u asked me to read, i followed a command
[18:08] <BlaXpirit> just look at my answer at the very bottom
[18:08] <chirag_d_gr8> i set my brightness from 10 to 5 but i notice no change....
[18:08] <chirag_d_gr8> ok i do again
[18:08] <BlaXpirit> it starts with "1. Install linux-kamal-mjgbacklight..."
[18:09] <maco2> kamal? you sure it's not kernel?
[18:09] <BlaXpirit> dunno, it seems like some patch to kernel
[18:09] <BlaXpirit> worked well for me.
[18:09] <chirag_d_gr8> i followed advice of the guy  posted just above that postwho
[18:09] <BlaXpirit> no, no, it's not good. didn't work for me as well
[18:10] <BlaXpirit> look at my own answer.. with 2 upvotes
[18:11] <chirag_d_gr8> another thing before i have to leave and go to sleep, my core temperature is 62 celsius but in windows it is 50 celsius. is this normal?
[18:12] <BlaXpirit> i don't think so :(
[18:12] <BlaXpirit> i've got 48 or so
[18:12] <chirag_d_gr8> will kubuntu burn my devices with 10 degree higher?
[18:12] <BlaXpirit> stupid hp >_>
[18:12] <chirag_d_gr8> :(
[18:13] <chirag_d_gr8> so what is recommended for me? should i discontinue kubuntu to save my hardware?
[18:13] <BlaXpirit> hey people, why don't you help this guy? i'm not really sure about this temperature stuff, got my own laptop just some weeks ago
[18:13] <macer1> Windows is overheating my hardware until it shuts down. No problem with ubuntu :D
[18:14] <BlaXpirit> well, i dunno. don't put the laptop on your lap......................
[18:14] <BlaXpirit> sounds weird, huh
[18:14] <chirag_d_gr8> i do not care about my lap :D, i care to make my laptop last longer
[18:15] <BlaXpirit> no, no. lap blocks heat coming out of the laptop.
[18:15] <chirag_d_gr8> ventilators are in the air so no problem
[18:16] <chirag_d_gr8> moreover, even if i try to adjust brightness graphically, my brightness bar jumps back to maximum
[18:16] <chirag_d_gr8> is this linux os bug?
[18:16] <BlaXpirit> not "bug"
[18:16] <BlaXpirit> just stupid vendors not providing drivers for linux.
[18:16] <chirag_d_gr8> so is it possible to fix it?
[18:16] <BlaXpirit> yes, possible, in the answer i wrote, and gave link to you.
[18:17] <chirag_d_gr8> those **** hp guys say they do not support linux :(
[18:17] <chirag_d_gr8> i check out that link
[18:17] <BlaXpirit> well, i had lenovo, didnt work as well. new hardware, u know..
[18:17] <BlaXpirit> doesn't overheat though.
[18:18] <chirag_d_gr8> i bought this laptop to use linux only and my hard luck :(. so i have to bear with it or use other distros?
[18:18] <BlaXpirit> i told u, the brightness can be fixed. about overheating, look somewhere around the internet, and maybe ask somewhere else.
[18:18] <chirag_d_gr8> ok thx by the way
[18:22] <DaemonFC> Oneiric broke the crap out of that indicator thingy :/
[18:23] <DaemonFC> I think Kopete is the only thing that still uses it
[18:48] <and1bm> hi, I just downloaded the kubuntu-10.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso from http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/download, but got a wrong md5sum, tried again and still the (same) wrong md5sum.
[18:49] <genii-around> and1bm: Are you using the md5sums from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes to compare against?
[18:51] <OerHeks> did you use right numer ? > d3096f32c260baa9a2d474980aa6b851 *kubuntu-10.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso  look at the 3 in 10.04.3
[18:51] <and1bm> I get 12194d48847543717d3b6856d8fb2914 but it should be d3096f32c260baa9a2d474980aa6b851
[18:52] <and1bm> try wget http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/lucid/kubuntu-10.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso
[18:52] <and1bm> md5sum kubuntu-10.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso
[18:54] <OerHeks> how did you download it, dl or torrent ?
[18:54] <and1bm> oh sorry I found the error: I checked the old iso, the new one kubuntu-10.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso.1 is fine. sorry!
[18:55] <OerHeks> oh oke, continue
[18:57] <and1bm> the first one must have been spoiled (downloaded with firefox) but the second one (wget) is fine. sorry for the noise.
[19:20] <GinoMan> how do you change the permissions of a file that's owned by gino:gino and has "-r-xr--r--" permissions
[19:21] <ArchangelSe7en> I suppose you're logged as "gino" ?
[19:21] <GinoMan> yes
[19:21] <GinoMan> and have access to the root account
[19:22] <ArchangelSe7en> well right click , properties , permissions
[19:24] <macer1> how can i switch to kde without exiting gnome
[19:24] <macer1> i mean, exit gnome
[19:24] <macer1> but without logout
[19:25] <OerHeks> i think that switch is not possible ?
[19:25] <GinoMan> .... it doesn't work
[19:27] <GinoMan> # chmod 777 -r /home/gino/.gvfs doesn't work.... root can do anything though
[19:30] <GinoMan> is there a user more root than root
[19:32] <OerHeks> you try to resolve an encrypted home ?
[19:32] <DarthFrog> Superroot? :-)
[19:33] <DarthFrog> GinoMan:  Look around, see if you see someone with a big red "S" on his chest. :-)
[19:38] <mutley89> GinoMan: chmod 777 -r isn't
[19:39] <mutley89> GinoMan: chmod 777 -r isn't an option according to man page. -R for recursive
[19:42] <genii-around> macer1: Might want to look into xnest
[19:42] <macer1> genii-around, ?
[19:45] <genii-around> macer1: With xnest, you can run an entirely different desktop environment inside of a window on your current desktop.
[20:06] <dennister> anyone know how to do a low-level format of a drive?
[20:07] <dennister> I think the drive is still intact and usable, but the partition table and everything else is toast
[20:09] <genii-around> dennister: There might be some low level format routine for it on the Ultimate Boot CD , depending on manufacturer
[20:10] <dennister> genii-around: hi pal! long time no chat
[20:12] <dennister> genii-around: can we pm about this prob? it has a history and I don't know if it's worth any more trouble
[20:19] <OerHeks> huh ?
[20:21] <Pici> BarkingFish: should be good now.  Next time feel free to call !ops or drop into #ubuntu-ops :)
[20:21] <BarkingFish> Thanks Pici - will do.
[21:58] <GTRsdk> how do I run a kubuntu oem install?
[22:05] <GTRsdk> f4 then oem, I think...
[22:20] <anon> *
[22:23] <ghittsum> 22?//=]/
[22:27] <ghittsum> zzzzzzz*
[23:34] <BarkingFish> Does anyone know how I turn off those annoying little popup thingies which appear when I hover on something open in my Task manager?
[23:35] <BarkingFish> I've searched for everything obvious, and can't seem to find them anywhere, tooltips or whatever they're called.  I want them off because they keep sticking open - I hover on something, the popup appears, but doesn't go away when I move my mouse off.
[23:35] <GTRsdk> BarkingFish: can you kill the process or remove the applet?
[23:36] <BarkingFish> No.
[23:36] <BarkingFish> They're windows from apps which I have open GTRsdk - I don't need the popups telling me what they are, I know what I opened :)


[00:33] <k1l_> @mark #ubuntu FireBeard
[00:33] <k1l> @mark #ubuntu FireBeard
[00:49] <k1l> ok, looking into bantracker i think that this incident was to be expected
[00:52] <hggdh> yeah
[23:30] <bazhang> double alis'd!
[23:31] <bazhang> almost worse than emacs squared
[23:32] <bazhang> the beatles foresaw this: koo koo ka chu : I am the emacs man
[23:32] <chu> :D