[07:38] <bujji> intrbiz:some aystem admin commands to know system performance..?
[07:51] <bujji> lilo?
[08:16] <bujji> please any one give me syatem admin related reference..)))
[08:16] <bujji> system*
[08:17] <bujji> intrbiz:o/
[09:19] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:46] <SuperEngineer> sometimes one has to make *really big* decisions like "bacon sandwich now or bacon sandwich later"...
[09:46] <SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmm
[09:49] <brobostigon> :)
[09:49] <brobostigon> why not have both?
[09:56] <SuperEngineer> mmmmmmm -nom, nom!  I do like that idea!
[09:58] <brobostigon> :)
[10:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:44] <brobostigon> afternoodlings czajkowski
[12:15]  * zmoylan-pi has bread and taytos for lunch (not influenced by the aer lingus story at all, at all) :-)
[12:18] <shauno> heh, I saw that one.  they're not going to win me over that easily!
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> more of a king fan?
[12:18] <shauno> lol, I meant aer fungus
[12:19] <zmoylan-pi> i know a few ex pats who's pay 3 times the price of ryanair just for that first taste of tayto...
[12:20] <shauno> easier just to go to sainsburys and buy them, no?
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> they're northern ireland tayto... slightly different
[12:23] <shauno> I should be flying to the states on aer lingus for christmas though.  that'll be different
[12:24] <zmoylan-pi> yes, you can bring a box of tayto in your checked on luggage :-D
[12:34] <penguin42> it's an odd world where you hear a bleeping, find it's the washing machine in an error state, look up the hex error code it displays to find it says low water pressure and *then* turn on the tap to find the water is off
[12:35] <zmoylan-pi> once took me about 6 months to track down a rogue random beep to a smoke alarm that beeped once every 15 minutes to let me know the battery was flat...
[12:35] <shauno> see, in my head, the washing machine would just send you an email
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> no no, in the web 2.0 world it would tweet an emojii
[12:36] <penguin42> shauno: Well, the thing is, it does have wifi and I could monitor it from my phone if I could be bothered to set it up
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> surely you just need to download an app...
[12:36] <penguin42> well, yes
[12:37] <penguin42> why can't it just do an SNMP trap?
[12:37] <shauno> see, I'd love that
[12:37] <shauno> I have an app for my espresso machine :)
[12:37] <zmoylan-pi> what you really need is a giant oujia board on the floor and the washing machine spells out messages as it wobbles about the room :-D
[12:37] <penguin42> shauno: I have an app for my new camera - can take a picture remotely from the camera - but it's pretty crap; only lets you change the zoom and trigger it
[12:38] <shauno> zmoylan-pi: hah, that's closer to what I have
[12:39] <shauno> but see, in my head we'd have something central much like we do with a router
[12:40] <shauno> and your washing machine etc would just advertise itself on the network, and the router would see it and pick up the correct app for it  (something like docker, ubuntu snappy, etc, where it can go grab from the repo something that matches the ident)
[12:40] <zmoylan-pi> maybe it could spell out messages by nicking black and white socks for 0's and 1's...
[12:40] <penguin42> shauno: Well that's why I say if it used something like snmp that would kind of work
[12:40] <shauno> and then we can do everything via this one central point instead of having a different app for everything
[12:41] <shauno> it just bugs me that everything I have that calls itself smart, operates in a vacuum
[12:41] <zmoylan-pi> except the vacuum cleaner of course...
[12:41] <shauno> nah, my roomba doesn't join in eithe r;)
[12:42] <penguin42> you mean that the washing machine or espresso machine could call in the vacuum cleaner to sort out a spill?
[12:42] <shauno> but, eg, I put my work shifts into my calendar.  tell my coffee machine when it should turn on & heat up.  tell my lights when they should come on
[12:42] <shauno> what I can't do is tell my coffee machine that it should turn in 90 minutes before a calendar event, and my lights 60 minutes before a calendar event
[12:43] <shauno> instead we have the kind of duplication of effort that'd get me fired at work
[12:45] <penguin42> shauno: Right, because you don't have APIs to the coffee machine or lights; although the lights should be doable
[12:45] <shauno> (it does actually take 20-30 minutes for the temperature on my coffee machine to stabilize, so at 5am it's a very real concern)
[12:46] <shauno> I kinda do for the coffee, it's on a belkin wemo outlet.  which is mostly standard protocols beaten and broken until they no longer resemble the standard
[12:46] <shauno> and my lights are just json over http
[12:47] <shauno> my gripe is that I shouldn't have to write the glue.  that's not "smart"
[12:47] <penguin42> ok, so you want some sort of hub application with plugins for each one
[12:47] <shauno> right
[12:48] <shauno> I figure something like Snappy where the apps come from a repo
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> i think the problem is that if there was a single app/web page/interface protocol every appliance would think it deserves to be #1 from your smart nose hair clippers to you electric pepper grinder
[12:49] <shauno> that way it's not just "anything on the network can install code on the router".  the devices advertise what they are, and snappy finds something to match from the repo.  that way you only have to trust the repo, not every device that tries to be 'smart'
[12:49]  * penguin42 notes you wouldn't want to get the electric pepper controls confused with the smart nose clippers
[12:50] <penguin42> shauno: Well, you should already be able to do something like that with mdns/avahi broadcast to detect stuff
[12:50] <shauno> sure.  I think all the components are there
[12:51] <zmoylan-pi> if they all had android apps they could have widgets you arrange on a tablet screen any way you prefer
[12:51] <shauno> we have the technology.  we've had it for a long time.  what we don't have is vendors with any interest in playing nicely together
[12:51] <zmoylan-pi> i remember looking at home automation in mid 80s.  red one gizmo that was controlled by 8 bit computer
[12:52] <shauno> which is what's left the whole thing vulnerable to something like apple's "homekit".  it's going to take someone bigger than the vendors to scare them all into being compatible
[12:52] <shauno> which, as much as I'm the token apple-lover around here, isn't really the ideal result
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> because the world uses different voltages and frequencies it will be very expensive to make a global standard
[12:54] <shauno> none of that really needs to be standard though.  the individual appliances can do whatever they like, as long as they're capable of sharing back to something sane
[12:55] <shauno> I don't care if the washing machine uses wifi, bluetooth, zigbee, ethernet.  as long as it can send messages back to the router, and the router can schedule events on the washer
[12:55] <zmoylan-pi> it's a level of standardisation that will make smart tvs look... easy
[12:57] <shauno> well, philips (my lights) have already announced they plan to work with homekit
[12:57] <shauno> if belkin do the same, my issues disappear down an Apple blackhole
[12:57] <penguin42> shauno: I don't really understand the wifi system thats used for pairing devices
[12:58] <shauno> for which?
[12:58] <zmoylan-pi> wps?
[12:58] <penguin42> yeh
[12:59] <shauno> the two systems I have both do their own thing
[12:59] <penguin42> both the camera and the washing machine use WPS I think
[13:00] <shauno> belkin shows up as an AP when it's unitialized, then you connect to it and direct it to your wifi network
[13:01] <shauno> and philips just lays claim to the nearest 'homeless' lightbulb when you hit the link button
[13:03] <shauno> which is a fun process.  "hold the bulb up to the base station and press Link" sounds perfectly sensible
[13:03] <shauno> until you realise that the bulb has to be plugged in & powered for this to work.  So you end up making offerins of table lamps to your router.
[13:04] <zmoylan-pi> but it's supposed to be wireless!!! :-(
[13:04] <shauno> yeah.  it is and it isn't.  the communication is wireless.  the light bulb still needs electricity
[13:05] <zmoylan-pi> http://notalwaysright.com/?s=wireless
[13:07] <zmoylan-pi> and good luck holding up your smart washing machine to the base station... :-D
[13:08] <penguin42> the WPS stuff is more just a pair of devices though rather than to a central hub?
[13:09] <shauno> I honestly don't have much clue about WPS.  I've only used it to try to link a linksys to another base-station.  and it didn't go well
[13:12] <zmoylan-pi> getting wifi ap to become wifi extenders can be very hit and miss due to the software installed by the manufacturers
[13:12] <shauno> in other news, Philae (comet-lander) is awake!  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33126885
[13:12] <penguin42> shauno: https://developer.sony.com/2013/11/29/how-to-develop-an-app-using-the-camera-remote-api-2/  wow
[13:13] <zmoylan-pi> nasa is now on hold to tech support trying to reset their pin code for philae... :-P
[13:13] <shauno> penguin42: that's actually a whole lot more than I ever expected from Sony!
[13:13] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh, lets see if that's the version mine supports
[13:17] <shauno> I'm not sure anyone expected Philae to come back.  it only worked for 60 hours before it went to sleep.  so waking up 7 months later is awesome
[13:17] <penguin42> yeh
[13:18] <zmoylan-pi> no, the stories at the time did say there was a chance it would wake later as it approached the sun and got more light
[13:19] <zmoylan-pi> it was designed to travel while off to it's meetup with the comet.  so we're getting better at that
[13:20] <penguin42> tapping big wifi password in using the wheel on a camera isn't fun
[13:23]  * zmoylan-pi remembers the joy of configuring ancient printers via dip switches which were always in most awkward spot on devices that weighed a tonne and were by the time i go to them manky... :-)
[13:26] <zmoylan-pi> you would have thought it would be really easy to add a qr code reading bit of software to sony cameras to read wifi codes that way
[13:27] <zmoylan-pi> copy wifi code to qrcode generator on web, take pic with camera, camera joins network with code
[13:28] <zmoylan-pi> of course it would also need the wifi ssid but that wouldn't be a biggie
[13:29] <penguin42> hmm, not sure if that's the way this camera connects to none-phone, I can configure wifi on it, but then it doesn't seem to do much with it except to connect to the base station, if I put it in connect to computer mode it says I need to connect it via USB to configure something which I guess is with the windows app
[13:30] <zmoylan-pi> that's... helpful...
[13:31] <penguin42> I suspect this might be slightly too early a camera for that protocol, so it might be easier to look at the phone protocol rather than the computer one
[13:32] <shauno> that's kinda how the apple watch pairs.  it draws a starfield-type pattern on the screen, then you take a picture with your phone
[13:32] <zmoylan-pi> it makes more sense to do it that way i think
[13:33] <penguin42> oh, the phone pairing you install an app on the phone, put the cemera into phone mode and it displays a password that you tap into the phone
[13:33] <zmoylan-pi> asking humans to type in long random strings of alphanumerics gets less easy the more times it fails...
[13:41] <zmoylan-pi> bonus points when they use a font that makes 1's and l's so so similar... or's 0's and O's
[13:41] <zmoylan-pi> compaq used to use a font on serial numbers that made B's and 8's indistinguisable
[14:08] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Ah, that explains why they had to invent the thing where holding down a button would burble the machine serial information so you could hold up the phone to the system
[14:11] <penguin42> right, given the boiler a bit more pressure, it got upset at losing mains
[15:44] <diddledan> and I'm back in civilisation
[15:44] <diddledan> (amazingstoke counts as civil, right?)
[15:46] <penguin42> going round and round in circles?
[15:46] <diddledan> of course!
[16:07] <shauno> I guess basingstoke counts if you've just spent 2 weeks in wales ;)
[16:07] <shauno> (not that it's much better here.  I went for a cycle yesterday, and after an hour noticed the signs weren't in english anymore)
[16:12] <shauno> (eg http://i.imgur.com/x7zcSZg.jpg )
[16:15] <penguin42> shauno: you don't need your passport do you?
[16:16] <shauno> dunno, they've never asked :)
[16:17] <shauno> it gets really irish really quickly out that way though.  barna/furbo actually have irish-language requirements for much of their housing (I think 80%?)
[17:08] <zmoylan-pi> well it is... you know... ireland
[17:09] <shauno> sure, but there's a slight difference between, say, dublin and the gaeltacht
[17:10] <zmoylan-pi> the english is better in the gaeltacht :-P
[17:11] <shauno> than dublin?  that's not setting a high bar ;)
[17:13] <shauno> so, my entry for "what could possibly go wrong" this week; someone's agreed to take me on as race crew for cowes week.  I've had exactly one sailing lesson so far (and another booked between now & then)
[17:13]  * zmoylan-pi is reminded of the american general who's plane came down in dublin mountain around wwii.  an irish speaking regiment were training in the area and quickly secured the area.  the general commented later that these guys sure know their codes... :-)
[17:13] <zmoylan-pi> so technically for the race you'll be ballast....
[17:14] <shauno> pretty much railmeat, yeah
[17:14] <shauno> but I'm still stoked :)
[17:15] <shauno> I literally have a spot because they're one man down for the first two days, so I'm to fill a spot on the roster
[17:29] <DJones> Hmmh, can;t "run minecraft.jar by right clicking and using "open with java*" option just isn't there
[17:33] <zmoylan-pi> it's make you more productive feature... :-)
[23:46] <diddledan> is wily out yet? :-p
[23:47] <daftykins> trust you to ask
[23:47] <daftykins> ;D
[23:49] <diddledan_> ooh, BSOD
[23:51] <diddledan_> bye me \o
[23:52] <daftykins> doppelganger!
[23:52] <diddledan_> it's almost as if there's two of me
[23:53] <daftykins> which one is faster?
[23:56] <diddledan_> he was


[01:14] <rick_h__> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/05/sony-attacked-again-12700-non-us-cc-numbers-feared-stolen.ars
[01:14] <rick_h__> gah!
[01:20] <rick_h__> Blazeix: heard much on the arch stable-ing out?
[01:21] <Blazeix> rick_h__: tough to tell, I'm pretty pissed that they moved from gtk2 to gtk3.
[01:22] <rick_h__> my boss made the switch this weekend
[01:22] <rick_h__> next day gnome3
[01:22] <Blazeix> since there's only one gtk3 theme out there, you're going to lose your look/feel, assuming gtk factors into it.
[01:22] <rick_h__> he hopped on IM there and was just "talk about bad timing!"
[01:22] <Blazeix> yeah, luckily I use chrome/rxvt pretty much exclusively
[01:22] <rick_h__> yea, fortunately I've not gone gtk for much of anything at this point, though I know chrome/firefox pay some attention to it
[01:23] <Blazeix> so it isn't too bad, but chrome is ugly
[01:23] <rick_h__> ugh
[01:23] <rick_h__> bah, keep failing to install this pencil package as well
[01:23] <Blazeix> this is the default look for nautilus now: http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/nautilus-adwaita.png
[01:23] <Blazeix> makes my eyes bleed. That's how it's supposed to look.
[01:23] <rick_h__> giant!
[01:23] <rick_h__> yea, I've been a long time thunar user
[01:24] <Blazeix> yeah, thunar looks terrible now, since I don't think there's an xfce/gtk3 integration
[01:24] <rick_h__> ugh
[01:24] <rick_h__> yea, I used to use lxappearance to help with my apps that listen to gtk stuff
[01:24] <rick_h__> guessing that's out the window
[01:25] <Blazeix> yeah, there's gnome-tweak-tool, and a config file you can edit to tweak stuff
[01:25] <Blazeix> gnome-tweak-tool will crash if you don't have gnome-shell installed, though.
[01:25] <rick_h__> the shots I've seen of the gnome3 desktop though is quite horrid
[01:25] <Blazeix> The whole thing just feels very raw.
[01:25] <rick_h__> welcome to OSS in 2011
[01:25] <rick_h__> these are the times that test us...
[01:26] <Blazeix> it's almost enough to make me switch to a Qt desktop
[01:26] <Blazeix> almost
[01:26] <rick_h__> so I wonder how this is in ubuntu/unity land
[01:26] <rick_h__> that's gtk3 right?
[01:26] <Blazeix> not sure
[01:26] <rick_h__> wonder how other apps look with it
[01:27] <Blazeix> actually, I'm not sure if it's gtk3
[01:28] <rick_h__> bah, this sucks.  I'm really sorry
[01:37] <rick_h__> but not little ole me
[01:38] <snap-l> (that's what Doctor Who says before the other shoe drops"
[01:38] <rick_h__> that's it, emailing them I want a paypal option since I don't trust them with my CC number
[01:38] <Blazeix> rick_h__: will the AUR pencil-svn package not work?
[01:39] <rick_h__> Blazeix: no, build fails and not sure why tbh
[01:39] <rick_h__> trace isn't clear to me on what's failing/missing
[01:39] <snap-l> rick_h__: http://ubuntuone.com/p/qG5/ <- I'm sorry, I'm really sorry.
[01:40] <snap-l> What exactly is pencil supposed to do anyway?
[01:40] <rick_h__> oh interesting, I missed that it was FF based
[01:40] <rick_h__> that's probably it, sayhs ff3.5
[01:41] <rick_h__> snap-l: mockup tool
[01:41] <rick_h__> I need to mock some bookie ui layouts
[01:41] <snap-l> I don't think Pencil is what you're looking for
[01:42] <snap-l> This appears to be a 2D animation tool
[01:43] <rick_h__> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx
[01:43] <rick_h__> yea, wrong thing
[01:44] <snap-l> Jesus, how many of these damn things are out there?
[01:44] <snap-l> I've seen three, two of which were $80
[01:44] <snap-l> all web-based.
[01:46] <snap-l> And it was at this moment that snap-l realized why that was, and snuck back to the rock to which he craweld from.
[01:46] <rick_h__> huh?
[01:46] <snap-l> You're mocking up web-based interfaces, no?
[01:46] <snap-l> So, naturally, you'd want something web-based. ;)
[01:47] <rick_h__> well I am, but mocking is just mocking
[01:47] <rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: you're needed in #bookie
[04:08] <snap-l> Nuts, I think I cooked a motion sensor because I didn't understand how to hook it up right
[13:21] <greg-g> g'morning
[13:22] <rick_h__> party
[13:22] <rick_h__> lots of $5 albums on amazon mp3 land
[13:22] <rick_h__> woo! new music to start the new day
[13:28] <wolfger> party
[13:28] <wolfger> but don't let snap-l hear that you're using and enjoying Amazon MP3.... :-)
[13:31] <rick_h__> hah, how can I use ubuntu one? I don't run ubuntu :P
[13:33] <snap-l> !openmetalcast 20, recorded live at !penguicon. 19 people saw what went in, but nobody heard what came out. http://ur1.ca/42oc4 Scary!
[13:34] <snap-l> wolfger: I prefer Ubuntu One because of the syncing. There's no question that Amazon has better sales.
[13:34] <snap-l> rick_h__: It's only a matter of time before you're back to Ubuntu. ;)
[13:34] <rick_h__> heh, why sync, I've bought 10 albums and not downloaded one :)
[13:35] <snap-l> rick_h__: Because I like having my music not suddenly vanish. ;)
[13:35] <snap-l> Y'know... like a cloud on a windy day.
[13:36] <rick_h__> snap-l: they also have a new feature, it'll auto download
[13:36] <rick_h__> When you save your Amazon MP3 purchases to Cloud Drive, you can download new purchases from Cloud Drive to this computer automatically.
[13:36] <rick_h__> This setting is unique to each of your computers and must be set from Your Account > Your Amazon MP3 Settings from each computer. This setting can also be set for your Android device.
[13:36] <snap-l> Ah, cool.
[13:36] <rick_h__> boom!
[13:36] <rick_h__> :P
[13:36] <snap-l> May consider using it again
[13:36] <snap-l> HEy, that was my biggest beef. If they fixed it, I'm settled.
[13:36] <rick_h__> not that I don't like supporting my canonical buddies, but sorry...
[13:37] <rick_h__> snap-l: the big thing is that U1 would do better sycning your existing stuff
[13:37] <rick_h__> uploading your stuff to cloud drive is a bit of a pita
[13:39] <snap-l> Yeah, u1 needs to excell in that areal
[13:39] <snap-l> Bah, where'd that extra l come from
[13:42] <jjesse> the amazon mp3 player is pretty cool use it on my android all the time
[13:42] <jjesse> uploaded my running music playlist to it, and then use the mp3 + my tracks when i run
[13:43] <jjesse> mp3 player pauses when my tracks announces my time
[15:43] <paroneayea> I'm just joining this channel because greg-g is awesome
[15:43] <paroneayea> I love that guy.
[15:43] <snap-l> Yeah, we're fans as well.
[15:43] <wolfger> welcome to #greg-g-fanclub
[15:43] <paroneayea> :D
[15:44] <wolfger> just as long as you're not here because you think brousch is awesome... :-p
[15:44] <greg-g> heya paroneayea :)
[15:44] <snap-l> I was about ready to give up computers and become a hermit until I met greg-g. Now I hang out in IRC all day and stroke the picture of greg-g that I have in my office.
[15:44] <snap-l> He's so dreamy.
[15:45] <greg-g>      | <-- line     snap-l --> *
[15:45]  * paroneayea pets greg-g's head softly
[15:45] <greg-g> :)
[15:45] <paroneayea> too bad greg-g's already engaged.
[15:45] <paroneayea> and that I'm married.
[15:45]  * wolfger puts on the bow-chika-wow-wow music
[15:45]  * _stink_ gets the camcorder
[15:46] <wolfger> ...it's like Penguicon all over again
[15:46] <greg-g> only with less furries
[15:46] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofibNrYDjdY <- Replace Ace Rimmer with greg-g, and you'll get it mostly right.
[15:46] <_stink_> someone put on a wizard hat
[15:46] <greg-g> yay, Red Dwarf!
[15:47] <brousch> greg-g: you don't know how we're all dressed. this is the internet!
[15:47] <paroneayea> wizard hat!  I have one of those
[15:47] <paroneayea> %
[15:47] <paroneayea>    \'.
[15:47] <paroneayea>     \ '.
[15:48] <paroneayea>      \  \
[15:48] <paroneayea>      _L__L_
[15:48] <paroneayea>      //~ ~
[15:48] <paroneayea>      G   >
[15:48] <wolfger> greg-g: Yeah. brousch is wearing his fursuit
[15:48] <paroneayea>      / \\\\-------.__  * * * *
[15:48] <paroneayea>     / ' \\\______ |T  * MAGIC *
[15:48] <paroneayea>    |   \ \\      \|    * * * *
[15:48] <greg-g> warning, paroneayea likes his ascii art, he is my resident ascii art friend :)
[15:48] <wolfger> percentage-wise, that would make this channel more furry-inhabited than pcon
[15:49] <_stink_> COWSAY plz
[15:51] <Milyardo> paroneayea: Where's the magic stick?
[15:51] <snap-l> Milyardo: greg-g doesn't need his magic stick
[15:55] <paroneayea>    \'.
[15:55] <paroneayea>     \ '.
[15:55] <paroneayea>      \  \
[15:55] <paroneayea>      _L__L_           _
[15:55] <paroneayea>      //~ ~           / /
[15:55] <paroneayea>      G   >           //
[15:55] <brousch> no magic sticks please. let's keep this sfw
[15:55] <paroneayea>      / \\\\-------._//
[15:55] <paroneayea>     / ' \\\______ |T3
[15:55] <paroneayea>    |   \ \\      \//
[15:55] <brousch> oh man, i bogarted the ascii art
"Are dragons gay, Phil?   SSDs fail a lot http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scale.html
[17:06] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, and catastrophically.
[17:07] <brousch> this is not news i wanted to hear. make it go away
[17:11] <Milyardo> but the hotness
[17:12] <rick_h__> heh, never going to be on non-ssd here
[17:12] <rick_h__> never had issues with my intels. 2yr out of my old one before I sold it and a year into this one
[17:17] <jrwren> i love that he references the hot/crazy scale.
[17:38] <rick_h__> greg-g: http://ejohn.org/blog/next-steps-in-2011/ kind of cool
[17:38] <rick_h__> open course type stuff it sounds like
[17:42] <greg-g> rick_h__: cool, yeah, Khan Academy is pretty neat. I'm very glad that they have someone from Mozilla starting there working on Open Source stuff
[21:27] <snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/statuses/65510057437184001
[21:39] <jrwren> lol
[21:39] <jrwren> <3 zedshaw
[21:41] <snap-l> jcastro: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/308/
[21:41] <snap-l> jcastro: You're a freaking mind-worm. ;)
[21:43] <jrwren> it was only 150 yrs ago.
[21:43] <jrwren> Standard Time didn't come into existence until rail travel necessitated it.
[21:43] <jrwren> and people did it according to the town tower. That is why towns had clock towers.
[21:44] <snap-l> She just got a pocket watch, so that's where the question came up
[21:44] <jrwren> tell her to find a town clock tower.
[21:44] <jrwren> mine is at ntp.ubuntu.com :)
[21:45] <snap-l> har har. :)
[21:46] <snap-l> All I know is I wish everything I owned either set time via the internet or via WWVB
[21:46] <snap-l> Or CallerID
[21:47] <snap-l> There is no reason I should have to set the Wii's clock manually
[21:51] <TeamXlink> Is there a way to use two power supplies to power *one* graphics card? If so would this solve the problem of a lower then recommended power supply? My power supply is a 250 watt and It is powering the motherboard and graphics card, I have another 250 watt power supply powering all of the fans and drives. I've disabled the pci slots, serial port, parelle port, mouse * keyboard port to save po
[21:52] <TeamXlink> wer (I'm unsure if that made a difference or not however).
[21:52] <snap-l> TeamXlink: Um...
[21:53] <snap-l> Where oh where to begin...
[21:53] <TeamXlink> Its amps that matter though right?
[21:53] <TeamXlink> More then watts?
[21:54] <snap-l> Well, let's just say if you're running two power supplies, and still not getting enough juice, that's indicative that there might be something else wrong
[21:54] <snap-l> I guess my first question would be what prompted you to think you need more power for the vid card?
[21:54] <TeamXlink> The recommended specifications and results of online searches.
[21:55] <jrwren> does the video card have a separate power input?  and you are using it on the secondary PS?
[21:55] <jrwren> if it is a beefy enough video card, it is likely you don't have enough power.
[21:55] <jrwren> 250W is very little.
[21:56] <snap-l> Well, it's also likely you don't have the right connector either
[21:56] <jrwren> also, the Vid Card spec should say how much it needs on the 5V rail.
[21:56] <TeamXlink> snape-I: And the auto tune in the ati overdrive underclocks my graphics card due to insufficent power, or thats the reason I think it does that.
[21:57] <TeamXlink> The graphics card has a 4 pin connector on it that is plugged into the power supply that is powering the motherbard and graphics card
[21:57] <snap-l> Right, OK.
[21:57] <snap-l> So it's drawing power from the Mobo and this separate cable?
[21:58] <TeamXlink> Yes.
[21:58] <TeamXlink> jrwren: I'll go fetch the link for you.
[21:58] <snap-l> Yeah, I think you're not going to be easily able to drive that with two PS units.
[21:59] <TeamXlink> It says 1.5v for agp4x
[21:59] <jrwren> what kind of card?
[21:59] <jrwren> AGP??/ zomg, ancient, how much power can it need?
[21:59] <TeamXlink> http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-HD3650-Video-100258L/dp/B001L62INY
[22:00] <TeamXlink> It is a 8x agp card but supports 4x agp
[22:00] <TeamXlink> The fan on the one that arrived is different then the fan in the first pic, it looks like this one http://ec5.images-amazon.com/images/I/2185DP%2BbquL.jpg but it keeps temperatures realtively low.
[22:01] <jrwren> 300W min.
[22:01] <snap-l> yeah
[22:01] <jrwren> so I'd try pluging the secondary power supply into the 4pin
[22:01] <TeamXlink> Mine has 2 dvi ports as well I just noticed.
[22:01] <TeamXlink> Alright.
[22:01] <jrwren> maybe it will balance some from mobo and some from secondary
[22:01] <TeamXlink> But that one is powering all of the other devices?
[22:01] <jrwren> but its a gamble.
[22:01] <jrwren> what "other devices" ?
[22:01] <jrwren> drives dont' pull much.
[22:02] <snap-l> jrwren: Newer drives don't. ;)
[22:02] <TeamXlink> Hard drive 4 case fans
[22:02] <snap-l> I used to have some 150MB Wren drives that needed a separate case / PSU to run. ;)
[22:02] <jrwren> i don't know about fans, but given they are just electric motors like a hard drive, its going to be nearly nothing.
[22:02] <jrwren> snap-l: right.
[22:02] <jrwren> not just "newer drives"
[22:02] <TeamXlink> It is filling the space where the disc drives would go so I don't have any disc drives installed unfortuenataly.
[22:02] <jrwren> but anything even remotely modern.
[22:03] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, just reminded me of that case.
[22:03] <TeamXlink> It is a 60gb Western Digital WDC WD600BB-75CAA0
[22:04] <snap-l> TeamXlink: Yeah, you should be fine
[22:04] <jrwren> TeamXlink: anything made within the last 15 yrs is going to be fine and draw very little power.
[22:04] <TeamXlink> Alright thank you.
[22:05] <TeamXlink> I eventually want to either get a power supply I can use for everything or find another way to mount the extra powersupply, using my drives in an external drive usb setup is vary slow. and I still haven't found a way to use the floppy drive as well.
[22:06] <jrwren> one of 'em is a 60G... you could get a 2TB and a 400W seasonic for well under $150
[22:06] <TeamXlink> Thats more then I payed for the computer, lol
[22:07] <TeamXlink> The computer was originally a Dell Optiplex GX 260, but the only thing left of that setup is the case and motherboard, everything else is different.
[22:09] <jrwren> old stuff is a bummer.
[22:09] <TeamXlink> Its not that old.
[22:10] <TeamXlink> The graphics card is miles better then my old one.
[22:10] <TeamXlink> The only thing I don't like about it is the ram setup.
[22:10] <TeamXlink> It has a maximum of 1gb of ram.
[22:11] <jrwren> ancient.
[22:13] <TeamXlink> The processor isn't stock either I just realized, the one I have is a 2 ghz.
[22:13] <TeamXlink> Thank you for the help everyone!
[22:15] <TeamXlink> hmmm.
[22:15] <TeamXlink> Dells specs about the ram limit are different then the specs elsewhere on the internet.
[22:15] <TeamXlink> Maybe it was changed in a bios upgrade.
[22:21] <TeamXlink> Yeah it is 2gb, sweet!
[22:21] <TeamXlink> I have a question though.
[22:22] <TeamXlink> I have 3 x 1gb ram chips that wouldn't fit the slots in my computer however they work on the family computer, I still don't know what the differences are though.
[22:22] <TeamXlink> I think my computer requires ddr while the other one requires ddr2
[22:23] <TeamXlink> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx260/en/ug/specs.htm#1110653 http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dime521/en/sm_en/specs.htm  would any ddr ram work?
[22:23] <jrwren> any DDR1.
[22:25] <TeamXlink> Alright, sweet thank you!
[22:26] <TeamXlink> I'm going to post an add on craigslist to see if I can trade the 1gb ddr2 chips for 1gb ddr1 chips.
[22:26] <TeamXlink> Thank you everyone for the help again!
[23:35] <Milyardo> WHats with some people and blind hostility towards Mono?
[23:37] <brousch> mono is the evil spawn of that sell-out miguel de icaza and steve ballmer
[23:37] <brousch> no good can come from such a union
[23:38] <Milyardo> Not sure about how Ballmer is involved, but Miguel is nicest guy
[23:39] <brousch> i was just channeling the haters
[23:43] <brousch> the hostility comes from mono being based on a microsoft product
[23:44] <Milyardo> like WINE?
[23:44] <Milyardo> Where's the Alexander hate then?
[23:44] <brousch> wine is more trying to find a way around microsoft
[23:44] <brousch> mono embrasses the microsoft
[23:45] <brousch> embraces
[23:45] <brousch> wine is a hackish way of fighting the man. mono acknowledges that MS has something worthwhile
[23:46] <Milyardo> Not sure if I see how reimplementing .NET isn't any less finding a way around MS as say OpenJDK reimplementing Java
[23:46] <Milyardo> *and finding away around Sun/Oracle
[23:47] <brousch> acknowledging sun has something worthwhile is much more acceptable than MS
[23:47] <Milyardo> What about Samba then?
[23:48] <brousch> hackish
[23:48] <brousch> you're looking at this far too logically to understand the haters
[23:48] <Milyardo> I'm trying and failing
[23:51] <brousch> MS is the great devil
[23:51] <brousch> anything provided by MS is evil
[23:52] <brousch> so happily accepting and embracing their technology makes you evil
[23:53] <brousch> people only use samba because their boss makes them work with windows computers
[23:53] <brousch> people use wine because they want to play games on linux


[04:27] <wgrant> Why does the karmic RC i386 desktop Ubiquity tell me that it will spend 20 (fluctuating) minutes downloading langpacks? It's just English...
[07:50] <CIA-33> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r173 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ (553 files in 12 dirs): Update translations from Launchpad (LP: #452889).
[07:52] <CIA-33> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r174 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/po/ (70 files in 12 dirs): Forgot to add new translations in the previous commit.
[08:02] <CIA-33> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r175 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 10
[08:10] <CIA-33> ubiquity: evand * r3550 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[08:10] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: grub-installer
[08:10] <CIA-33> ubiquity: 1.43ubuntu7.
[08:24] <CIA-33> ubiquity: evand * r3551 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.0.3
[09:26] <TheMuso> evand: did you not have a partman-base change to make, and get included in ubiquity as well?
[09:27] <TheMuso> Yes there are the changes Colin made the other day, but he also said another change to partman-base was also pending...
[09:27] <evand> which change was this?
[09:28] <TheMuso> cjwatson and I were working on fixing up compilation issues re powerpc for partman-base and e2fsprogs. Colin also said that there was another partman-base change pending.
[09:29] <TheMuso> I may have misread however.
[09:29] <TheMuso> In any case, there is a partman-base change that we need to upload, as I don't think it would make sense to have 2 ubiquity uploads, unless there is another one planned before we freeze.
[09:45] <evand> there's another one likely
[09:45] <evand> I've already uploaded 2.0.3 anyway
[09:50] <TheMuso> ok
[09:51] <TheMuso> If cjwatson hasn't pushed partman-base/e2fsprogs by my tomorrow afternoon, I'll upload the fixes for those packages... Unless your ubiquity upload will be sooner than that.
[09:55] <evand> ah, I had in my head that Colin was still away on vacation today, but apparently not
[09:55] <evand> good deal
[09:57] <evand> TheMuso: I'll check with you and cjwatson before uploading ubiquity, to be sure we have all the powerpc fixes in.
[10:38] <evand> cjwatson: is keeping the generic kernel when using pae in ubiquity by design?  bzr blame seems to suggest this.
[10:46] <evand> ah ha!
[10:46] <evand> nevermind :)
[11:42] <evand> cjwatson: does http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/299708/ look okay to you?
[11:44] <evand> there's also the problem of self.kernel_version not getting set properly in scripts/install.py, but it's not as simple as expanded the regex.
[11:44] <evand> expanding*
[12:39] <CIA-33> usb-creator: evand * r245 trunk/ (debian/changelog usbcreator/backends/base/backend.py):
[12:39] <CIA-33> usb-creator: Expand the path provided by the -i option to its absolute
[12:39] <CIA-33> usb-creator: (LP: #458497).
[14:14] <cjwatson> TheMuso: partman-base> at the time I thought that the syslogging change might be necessary for 9.10. At the moment it doesn't seem to be
[14:14] <cjwatson> I'll upload partman-base nowish
[14:14] <cjwatson> TheMuso: if you could go ahead and upload e2fsprogs, I'd appreciate it
[14:15] <cjwatson> evand: thanks so much for sorting out that PAE bug
[14:15] <CIA-33> partman-base: cjwatson * r171 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 133ubuntu4
[14:15] <evand> no worries
[14:16] <evand> I'm still working through one last bit (self.kernel_version not being set properly).  I have an ugly patch, just trying to make less ugly.
[14:17] <cjwatson> evand: 299708> the running kernel will always be generic, so would that actually help?
[14:18] <evand> cjwatson: see my patch at 11:42 - it's leaving linux-image-2.6.31-*-generic on there
[14:18] <evand> well, not leaving
[14:18] <evand> but reinstalling, by apt-installing it
[14:18] <evand> so it gets removed, and then added back
[14:23] <evand> apologies for poorly wording that in my bug comment
[14:25] <cjwatson> evand: oh, I see your point, but that patch alone won't take care of it. the if on line 62 will fire
[14:25] <cjwatson> there is definitely a bug there but I think the fix is trickier than that
[14:27] <evand> cjwatson: are you sure?  the if on line 57 should be false.
[14:27] <evand> and it indeed worked in my testing
[14:27] <evand> (with the patch added, that is)
[14:32] <evand> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/299783/ is what I'm working on for the other part of the problem, but I obviously need to have it walk more than just the first branch.
[14:41] <cjwatson> oh, I see
[14:42] <cjwatson> yeah, I think you're right
[14:43] <cjwatson> evand: looks like the right approach, yes
[14:43] <evand> cool
[15:03] <evand> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/299795/ just testing that in an install, then I'll commit and upload, then ask Jerone to test
[15:13] <cjwatson> evand: shouldn't that be a method, really?
[15:13] <cjwatson> I know it doesn't really need it but it's sort of odd to have a non-method function there
[15:14] <evand> cjwatson: ah, just a bad copy and paste job
[15:14] <evand> fixing
[15:40] <Nivex> bug 457767
[15:40] <Nivex> cjwatson is probably getting tired of hearing from me :)
[15:41] <cjwatson> I've been on holiday
[15:41] <cjwatson> this sounds like it needs a kernel guy to investigate
[15:41] <Nivex> figured as much when you weren't on for awhile
[15:41] <cjwatson> shouldn't be possible for tasks to hang that way
[15:41] <cjwatson> I'd recommend asking #ubuntu-kernel
[15:42] <Nivex> I imagine it is if your filesystem isn't there anymore
[15:42] <cjwatson> err
[15:42] <cjwatson> oh, are network interfaces being fiddled with around that time?
[15:42] <cjwatson> in that case this needs Keybuk :)
[15:42] <cjwatson> or is the problem that the act of starting iscsid breaks things?
[15:43] <Nivex> seems like that's an awful possibility
[15:44] <Nivex> I get the sense we might not be able to get this done in time :-//
[15:44] <Nivex> Can you at least move the bug along in the process and I can try to help test this weekend
[15:44] <Nivex> ?
[15:45] <Nivex> I'm in the midst of a conference at $WORK.  I'll try to pop back in later.
[16:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: evand * r3552 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/check-kernels scripts/install.py):
[16:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: * Do not install the live CD kernel in the target system when using
[16:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity:  PAE (LP: #413135).
[16:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: * Properly set the kernel version in the main install process when
[16:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity:  using PAE so that symlinks get created for the kernel and initramfs.
[16:08] <cjwatson> Nivex: I don't even know where it should be moved along to :(
[16:09] <cjwatson> (see #ubuntu-devel)
[16:51] <bdmurray> Is the ubiquity task in bug 268808 still valid?
[19:36] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3553 ubiquity/ (apport/source_ubiquity.py debian/changelog):
[19:36] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Change apport hook to prefer syslog, partman, and casper.log from
[19:36] <CIA-33> ubiquity: /var/log/installer/ if they exist there, to support bug-filing after
[19:36] <CIA-33> ubiquity: installation.
[20:03] <CIA-33> pkgsel: cjwatson * r152 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog postinst):
[20:03] <CIA-33> pkgsel: Don't set the "incomplete language support" note if only gimp-help-* is
[20:03] <CIA-33> pkgsel: missing, since it's far too big to fit on CDs (LP: #452516).
[20:07] <CIA-33> pkgsel: cjwatson * r153 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.25ubuntu4
[20:09] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3554 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[20:09] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Don't set the "incomplete language support" note if only gimp-help-* is
[20:09] <CIA-33> ubiquity: missing, since it's far too big to fit on CDs (LP: #452516).
[20:25] <evand> bdmurray: I don't believe so
[20:25] <evand> cjwatson: do you have any more changes you want to get in?
[20:26] <cjwatson> one grub-installer change I'm working on
[20:26] <cjwatson> (bug 457687)
[20:26] <bdmurray> evand: okay - thanks!
[20:27] <evand> cjwatson: okay, I'll hold off on an upload then
[20:28] <cjwatson> I'd also like partman-base to be accepted first
[20:29] <cjwatson> never mind that bit, it already was
[20:29] <evand> indeed, that's what had prompted me to start a ubiquity upload :)
[20:32] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, why would ubiquity not install oem-config when oem-config/enabled is definitely preseeded to true and ubiquity is definitely running in oem mode.
[20:33] <cjwatson> it's oem-config/enable not oem-config/enabled
[20:34] <cjwatson> I assume that's a typo though. I don't know, do you have a log?
[20:38] <cody-somerville> yup
[20:38] <cody-somerville> reviewing it now
[20:51] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, grepping oem I don't see any reference to oem-config - just the oem user setup
[20:52] <cody-somerville> (and oem-config/enable in the kernel command line)
[20:54] <cody-somerville> also, ubiquity just crashes and the desktop comes up if you set a blank password. I'll file a bug about that.
[20:54] <cjwatson> ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py:            execute_root('apt-install', 'oem-config-gtk')
[20:54] <cjwatson> that kind of thing is what deals with it
[21:00] <cody-somerville> oh, I see that now
[21:01] <cody-somerville> log-output -t ubiquity apt-install oem-config-gtk
[21:01] <cody-somerville> and then the next few lines are about ntpd
[21:02] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r824 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog grub-installer):
[21:02] <CIA-33> grub-installer: If using GRUB 2 and installing to a RAID device any of whose components
[21:02] <CIA-33> grub-installer: are partitions, then default to installing to the MBRs of each of the
[21:02] <CIA-33> grub-installer: containing disks, since GRUB 2 will refuse to install to the partition
[21:02] <CIA-33> grub-installer: devices (LP: #457687).
[21:02] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: is oem-config-gtk available on the installation medium?
[21:03] <CIA-33> grub-installer: cjwatson * r825 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.43ubuntu8
[21:11] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, affirmative
[21:11] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: would need to see the full log, then
[21:12] <cjwatson> evand: once grub-installer is accepted, that's all from me I think
[21:13] <evand> okay
[21:13] <evand> I'm not sure how much longer I'll be around, but I can upload ubiquity when I get back home tonight if grub-installer has been accepted
[22:19] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3555 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[22:19] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Make use of check-language-support -a if pkgsel/language-packs is ALL,
[22:19] <CIA-33> ubiquity: since that's orders of magnitude faster (see LP #458333).
[22:41] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Sure will do so when I get back this afternoon.
[22:59] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3556 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[22:59] <CIA-33> ubiquity: * Keep language-support-$LL installed if it happens to be in the live
[22:59] <CIA-33> ubiquity: filesystem, since there's no point spending time removing it; but dont
[23:00]  * cjwatson uncommits, broken log message
[23:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3556 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[23:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: * Keep language-support-$LL installed if it happens to be in the live
[23:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: filesystem, since there's no point spending time removing it; but don't
[23:00] <CIA-33> ubiquity: install it if it isn't in the live filesystem (LP: #458333).
[23:44] <CIA-33> ubiquity: evand * r3557 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[23:44] <CIA-33> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: partman-base
[23:44] <CIA-33> ubiquity: 133ubuntu4.
[23:45] <evand> arr, my bad


[08:20] <dholbach> good morning
[08:52] <zzarr> hello! and happy new year
[08:53] <zzarr> I have upgraded qt-creator under Ubuntu 15.10 with following ppa https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/ubuntu/backup-qt551?field.series_filter=wily
[08:54] <zzarr> but now there's no Ubuntu on the left in Tools -> Options
[08:57] <zzarr> it seams to be the qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu package that's missing
[08:58] <zzarr> I'm running a dist-upgrade, hope this solves the problem
[09:14] <mcphail> zzarr: that isn't the standard Ubuntu dev PPA, is it? I suspect fixing things is going to take more than a dist-upgrade...
[09:16] <zzarr> mcphail, I think you're right, I have run a ppa-purge now
[09:18] <zzarr> I found the link to it from this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/QtTesting
[09:26] <zzarr> when I run a dist-upgrade with the PPA I linked to, it requests to remove following liboxideqt-qmlplugin libqt53d5 qt3d5-dev qt3d5-examples qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras-browser-plugin
[09:26] <zzarr>   qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-web-plugin ubuntu-html5-container ubuntu-html5-theme-examples ubuntu-html5-ui-toolkit-examples ubuntu-sdk
[09:26] <zzarr>   ubuntu-sdk-libs ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev webapp-container webbrowser-app
[09:28] <mcphail> zzarr: You are going down a rabbit hole but mixing PPAs. Individual PPAs are often a bad idea. Multiple PPAs are a nightmare.
[09:28] <zzarr> I need the 5.5.1 framework, is there a way to upgrade it without tempering with ubuntu-sdk?
[09:28] <mcphail> *by
[09:29] <zzarr> okey
[09:31] <mcphail> zzarr: the package manager isn't going to help you with this. You can manually install a different version of Qt to another path, and set PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH etc appropriately when you want to use it. But that is a lot of work and you'd be on your own
[09:33] <zzarr> mcphail, okey, but I don't have a choice
[09:36] <zzarr> I have tried compiling qt 5.5.1 for armhf without any success for some time (once it worked, but there was a alinking error)
[10:00] <zzarr> mcphail, there isn't a way to install a ppa side by side?
[10:01] <zzarr> like a chroot or something?
[10:01] <mcphail> zzarr: not automatically, if they have conflicting packages, no. You can chroot
[10:01] <mcphail> or virtualise
[10:01] <mcphail> or containerise
[10:01] <zzarr> I'll try a chroot
[10:02] <mcphail> zzarr: DanChapman had a docker setup for the SDK which might help with the kind of thing you are trying to do. Perhaps you could ask him for the link?
[10:05] <zzarr> I will, thanks
[10:11] <zzarr> ahh.... it's the guy that made dekko, the mail client, I thought I recognized the name
[13:53] <zzarr> hello!
[13:53] <zzarr> in what package do I find the qml module?
[14:56] <momken> appdevs
[15:05] <kalikiana> zzarr: which qml module? there's dozens of them :-)
[16:27] <Randy_O> I'm having an issue uploading an app to myapps on developer.ubuntu.com , it is being rejected with this error: found binaries for architecture 'all', it's a new error, my code hasn't changed much between versions. Any ideas?
[16:31] <davidcalle> beuno ? Any idea ^
[18:19] <beuno> davidcalle, Randy_O, it should tell you which binaries
[18:25] <ogra_> i wonder if there is an issue with click-review-tools ...
[18:25]  * ogra_ heard people complain more often about the above recently
[18:25] <ogra_> (even for webapps which shouldnt ship any binaries)
[18:45] <Randy_O> beuno, yes, it's all my translations, it's the only thing that gets compiled, the rest is JS and QML code, but these translatipons arent new, I've had them in the click for a while
[18:46] <Randy_O> ogra_, everything locally builds just fine, and I can manually install on devices, but the online store trips on this error, so I can't get the app into the store
[18:55] <beuno> Randy_O, we'll fix that soon, in the mean time
[18:56] <beuno> you can ask for a manual review and it'll go through
[18:59] <Randy_O> beuno, thanks, I'll take care of that
[19:19] <ilhami> hey!
[19:20] <ilhami> Where can I read about requests from users for Ubuntu Touch apps?
[19:20] <ilhami> I want to see a list of the apps requested by users
[19:21] <ilhami> I'd argue that Ubuntu Touch is already better than Windows 10 Mobile.
[19:22] <ilhami> I regret so much that I bought a Windows Phone. :/
[19:22] <JanC> ilhami: https://uappexplorer.com/wishlist
[19:23] <ilhami> great.
[19:24] <JanC> it's probably not the only place to find app requests, and it's not official, but it's a start  :)
[19:24] <ilhami> So Firefox does not exist yet? Which browser is the native one in Ubuntu Touch?
[19:25] <davmor2> ilhami: webbrowser app which uses oxide which is a chromium/chrome derivative
[19:25] <JanC> Ubuntu Web Browser, which is based on Oxyde, which is based on the Chrome/Chromium engine
[19:25] <ilhami> An app like Firefox has to be written by Firefox devs, no?
[19:25] <JanC> :)
[19:25] <ilhami> or am I mistaken?
[19:26] <ilhami> How well does it run? Is it smooth? Edge is pretty crappy on Windows Phone at least.
[19:27] <JanC> ilhami: you could try to port Firefox Mobile yourself, but I think it would be a lot of work
[19:27] <davmor2> ilhami: If you have ubuntu on the desktop there is a version on there not sure if it is as up-to-date as the one on the phone but it mostly works fine
[19:27] <JanC> the main problem with the browser is lack of memory in a phone really
[19:27] <ilhami> davmor2, pretty cool. :)
[19:28] <JanC> so don't open too many tabs  :P
[19:28] <ilhami> so I want to know what is the next Ubuntu phone? Does anybody know? any plans? Any plans about improving the hardware?
[19:29] <JanC> oh, and the browser has no adblocker, which makes many sites almost unusable
[19:29] <ilhami> ouch.
[19:30] <ilhami> The Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition looks like the best Ubuntu phone hardware-wise, right?
[19:30] <davmor2> there is no flash player so that blocks most stuff :)
[19:31] <JanC> you just get full-screen html+image+javascript+MPEG4 ads then
[19:32] <ilhami> Adblocker is high on the list then..
[19:32] <JanC> and they still track you, of course
[19:32] <ilhami> would be cool with a dropbox client as well.
[19:33] <JanC> https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.bobo1993324.udropcabin ?
[19:34] <ilhami> oh ok.. https://uappexplorer.com/wishlist?page=1 it is here on page 2
[19:34] <ilhami> that's why I thought it hadn't been developed.
[19:34] <JanC> (I don't use dropbox so not sure it works)
[19:34] <JanC> but it has good reviews, it seems
[19:35] <ilhami> yeah
[19:35] <JanC> ilhami: maybe they want an official app, or a more featureful one
[19:36] <ilhami> could be.
[19:38] <ilhami> so basically apps can be written in 3 languages, JS, Go and C++ ?
[19:41] <davmor2> JanC: ilhami it works really well, it's just not an official app which is what I think people were asking for
[19:42] <ilhami> I see.
[20:07] <ilhami> Is Ubuntu Touch stable yet?
[20:08] <ilhami> or still in alpha/beta?
[20:13] <davmor2> ilhami: depends what you mean by stable, it crashes very little, it makes calls and texts, telegram is good, internet works, send and receive emails, is it perfect no, can it be used daily depends how you use your phone
[20:15] <davmor2> ilhami: it's been stable since we had products shipping with it, it has also improved greatly over that time too
[20:15] <ilhami> can you elaborate on "how you use your phone" ?
[20:15] <ilhami> sounds promising.
[20:17] <davmor2> ilhami: the biggest limiting factor is if there are apps available that you use on other plaforms that are not available on ubuntu that can hinder you daily usage more than the phone having issues
[20:17] <ilhami> how often does it get updates? every month? every week?
[20:17] <ilhami> you have a log over updates somewhere?
[20:18] <davmor2> roughly every 6 weeks
[20:18] <ilhami> I can live without most of those apps. :)
[20:19] <ilhami> but of course there is a lot of work ahead of Ubuntu devs. :) but I think we can succeed
[20:19] <ilhami> what is your goal? how much market share do you aim for?
[20:19] <ilhami> 5%? 10%?
[20:22] <davmor2> ilhami: we have no number goals currently, our biggest aim is to keep the return to manufacturer to a minimum
[20:23] <davmor2> ilhami: our goal is to just build up slowly and improve with each release
[20:26]  * balloons may have broken jenkins for core apps
[20:26]  * balloons whistles quietly
[20:28] <ilhami> davmor2, well I hope you succeed.
[20:29] <ilhami> my next phone will hopefully be a Ubuntu Phone.. :) I also want to be able to test my apps hehe..
[20:30] <ilhami> hahaha dude
[20:30] <ilhami> :D why did you do that?


[08:30] <xkern> hi again
[08:30] <xkern> there is someone here ?
[09:05] <xkern> that's my problem when i debug linux kernel.
[09:06] <xkern> http://imgur.com/kL9YUB7
[09:06] <xkern> http://imgur.com/LdDMgm3
[09:06] <xkern> http://imgur.com/9dsJfYr
[09:06] <xkern> http://imgur.com/4mLPDlq
[09:06] <xkern> step by step.
[09:06] <xkern> if you know something, dont hesitate you know something : )
[09:10] <xkern> oh sorry links dont work.
[09:10] <xkern> https://image.ibb.co/hseHyQ/1.jpg
[09:10] <xkern> https://image.ibb.co/b6yXXk/2.jpg
[09:10] <xkern> https://image.ibb.co/gfyMQ5/3.jpg
[09:10] <xkern> https://image.ibb.co/gfyMQ5/3.jpg
[09:10] <xkern> these are new links.


[21:54] <stephane> hi
[21:55] <stephane> i got 12.04 in french and added hebrew but it does not work
[21:55] <Guest43131> i can not type in hebrew even when he appears
[21:55] <Guest43131> can someone help?
[21:55] <Guest43131> atsilou


[14:46] <sdeziel> I'd like to know why a certain package (ganeti) was not imported into 17.10 and is thus missing from 18.04.
[14:50] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ganeti   seems to be there
[14:50] <cjwatson> ah, only in -proposed
[14:51] <cjwatson> it had/has (I haven't checked whether it still does) a dependency which was broken (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=865399); furthermore, its autopkgtests are broken
[14:52] <cjwatson> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/g/ganeti
[14:55] <sdeziel> thanks cjwatson!
[15:00] <sdeziel> cjwatson: the autopkgtests I checked all be failed because there is not enough RAM available: Not enough memory on node node1 for creating instance instance1: needed 1024 MiB, available 809 MiB
[15:01] <cjwatson> sdeziel: I haven't looked in any more detail, and won't; just telling you what I know
[15:01] <sdeziel> alright, thanks for the pointers
[15:53] <bdmurray> rlink: for what package?
[16:13] <bdmurray> rlink: Ah, I've seen your email to me now. I'll have at your request today.
[18:22] <rlink> bdmurray:  Got it.  Thanks.
[18:24] <rlink> bdmurray:  So, this doesn't look like a regression introduced by my network-manager SRU.  This is a problem in nm-connection-editor (from network-manager-gnome) that has been happening since at least October (I stopped scrolling back after that)
[18:25] <bdmurray> rlink: What was the crash again?
[18:25] <rlink> I'm guessing the error report flagged network-manager because bits of libnm show up in the stack trace?
[18:25] <rlink> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/bf601527363a0557bea54d20de626f6a8d74d586
[18:29] <bdmurray> rlink: Did nm-connection-editor move packages?
[18:31] <rlink> bdmurray: Not a clue.  It doesn't come from network-manager.  As far as I can tell, it comes from network-manager-gnome, whose source package is network-manager-applet
[18:32] <rlink> The above is also true at least as far back as 14.04
[18:33] <rlink> bdmurray:  Oh, found a 12.04 box.  Also true as far back as 12.04
[18:33] <bdmurray> rlink: Can you pastebin the email you got? FWIW this isn't blocking phasing anymore.
[18:35] <rlink> bdmurray: I wish I could, but I looked for it yesterday and I seem to have accidentally deleted it.
[18:38] <rlink> bdmurray: I could go pull it from tape, if you need it that badly.
[18:38] <bdmurray> rlink: I have logs from the server I can look at, thanks though.
[18:56] <rlink> bdmurray:  Oh.  The phased-update page for Xenial doesn't list network-manager any more.  It did as of late last week.
[18:58] <rlink> And it looks like it has already reached 100% phasing?
[18:59] <bdmurray> rlink: Yes, that's what I tried to say earlier.
[18:59] <rlink> Yeah, I misunderstood.  I thought you meant the block was gone, but I didn't realize the phaseing had resumed.
[19:00] <rlink> Sorry.  I stopped checking the phased-update page after a week of waiting for my error-tracker-access approval. ;-)
[19:51] <bdmurray> rlink: ah, 1.1.93 (in the release pocket for xenial) did produce the network-manager-gnome package. The error tracker doesn't deal well with packages moving about.
[19:53] <rlink> bdmurray:  Oh!  Okay, that makes sense.  Thank you for the insight!
[19:59] <slangasek> infinity, kees: do we have a TB chair for today's meeting?