[05:48] <MartijnVdS> Guest65540: nickserv problems? :)
[07:34] <jacobw> Does Launchpad have issues with NoScript? I'm having trouble using the OpenID functions of Launchpad despite allowing Launchpad in NoScript
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea.. I stopped using noscript because it broke a lot of sites
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> even whitelisted ones
[08:14] <jacobw> I'm finding this
[09:03] <dwatkins> Hi folks
[09:57] <daubers> Morning
[09:57]  * daubers gets new glasses today \o/
[09:57] <daubers> and possibly new slippers
[09:59] <dwatkins> and a cap and a volvo?
[09:59] <daubers> No, I look silly in a cap
[10:29]  * daubers goes to town
[10:30] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: not any more :)
[10:30]  * issyl0 speeds off out to London. Nothing interesting, though... :)
[10:33] <MichealH> :/ Update Manager is a CPU Hogger...
[10:33] <screen-x> morning all :)
[10:34] <MichealH> Morning screen-x
[10:45] <screen-x> + it appears to be #uksnowing
[10:46] <screen-x> - I just got a bowl of cereal but the milk is off
[10:46] <directhex> no snow here, thank feck
[10:46] <screen-x> morning directhex :)
[10:47] <hoover> mornin all, happy new year!
[10:47] <directhex> it's *still* morning?
[10:47] <screen-x> yep
[10:47] <screen-x> \o hoover
[10:47] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[10:47] <bigcalm> Time to get ultra busy and to nothing
[10:48] <screen-x> bigcalm: ?
[10:48] <hoover> hey biggie
[10:50] <kvarley> Is today a bank holiday?
[10:51] <screen-x> yep
[10:51] <kvarley> Ah ok
[10:51] <bigcalm> s/to/do
[10:52] <bigcalm> Hi hoovie
[10:52] <screen-x> tomorrow is as well if you live in scotland..
[10:52] <bigcalm> Damn lazy Scots ;)
[10:52] <screen-x> bigcalm: if your going to do nothing, you might as well relax ;-)
[10:52] <bigcalm> screen-x: still in bed with a laptop :D
[10:52] <bigcalm> GF next to me, reading
[10:53] <kvarley> That's lame, why don't we have a bank holiday tomorrow too :/
[11:04] <bigcalm> Somebody has to do some work
[11:09] <dwatkins> I live in Scotland and I'm working today and tomorrow.
[11:09] <directhex> i'm working today
[11:33] <brobostigon> morning all.
[11:34] <screen-x> morning brobostigon
[11:34] <brobostigon> morning screen-x
[12:04] <screen-x> should I put GCSEs/A levels on CV?
[12:05] <brobostigon> screen-x: i do, as they re significant in my education.
[12:06] <screen-x> hmm, that means I'll have to find them, as I can't remember how many GCSEs I got!
[12:08] <brobostigon> screen-x: if it isnt significant or importent for the job the cv is intended for, or too old, iwouldnt stricktly put them.
[12:10] <imexil> Hi, I'd like to test Unity with the help of VirtualBox 4.0. Problem is that testdrive doesn't like/know version 4.0. Is there any way to convince testdrive to use virtualbox 4.0
[12:10] <brobostigon> screen-x: remember, you dont want to give them awhole essay to read, :)
[12:13] <imexil> join /testdrive
[12:13] <imexil> oops :)
[12:14] <screen-x> brobostigon: Thanks :)
[12:14] <brobostigon> screen-x: :) you're welcome.
[12:54] <screen-x> AlanBell: glad you got it working, is unity usable in virtualbox?
[12:54] <AlanBell> for small values of useable
[12:54] <AlanBell> but only in vbox 4
[12:54] <brobostigon> extra vat on beer,:(
[13:00] <ali1234> oh wow, vbox 4 has multiple screen support in linux guests
[13:44] <AlanBell> so it does, not quite sure why you would want that
[13:47] <imexil> AlanBell: I was simply hoping for a quick and dirty solution and not having to install 11.04 yet.
[13:47]  * imexil was just curious to what the fuzz about Unity is all about
[13:48] <imexil> (it doesn't work under maverick so I thought testing it with natty would be an idea)
[13:48] <AlanBell> well unity does work under maverick, but not with compiz
[13:55] <imexil> Unfortunatly not really. I tried it (by first killing compiz and then loading unity) but failed utterly. It's not THAT important anyway but thought that exactly for this purpose testdrive would come in handy :)
[13:55] <ali1234> you're really not missing anything, it's pretty far from being finished anyawy
[13:56] <jacobw> I think might be the only one looking forward to Unity
[13:56] <ali1234> can't say i'm looking forward to the inevitable drop in quality of classic gnome packages
[13:57]  * brobostigon is looking forwrd  to gnome-shell
[13:57] <ali1234> lol... about the only good thing i have to say about unity is "at least it's not gnome-shell"
[13:59] <jacobw> I think GNOME Shell will be difficult for new users to pick up
[13:59] <ali1234> why?
[14:00] <jacobw> I think GNOME won't be able to resist trying to compete with KDE by making an interface that is really clever in theory but nobody can actually get in to using
[14:00] <ali1234> the problem with gnome shell is it makes it infuriatingly difficult if you have a lot of windows open and you need to switc between them
[14:00] <jacobw> Yeah, and that :p
[14:00] <ali1234> in classic gnome you can do it with one click
[14:00] <ali1234> in gnome shell you have to zoom out, find the window, click it a few times... ugh
[14:00] <ali1234> but this isn't a problem that new users have
[14:00] <jacobw> I pretty happy with classic GNOME to be honest
[14:00] <brobostigon> ali1234: icanswitch between window in gnome-shell like normal. alt + tab.
[14:00] <ali1234> alt+tab is not "normal"
[14:01] <ali1234> and it's not good
[14:01] <jacobw> I hope they maintain a 2D version of Unity
[14:01] <ali1234> you have to press it multiple times all while watching out for thew window you want
[14:01] <ali1234> by the time you've done that i've already clicked on the taskbar
[14:01] <jacobw> I'm not sold using 3D graphics for the smallest thing
[14:01] <ali1234> the great thing about the taskbar is that the windows don't move around
[14:02] <ali1234> where as the alt-tab order constantly changes
[14:02] <ali1234> if you are rapidly switching between three or four windows, it gets hopelessly confusing with alt+tab, and you really just have to ... alt+tab, check, alt+tab, check... constantly
[14:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: hence why i use workspaces, so i dont need mess with load of windows in a single workspace.
[14:02] <ali1234> yeah workspaces
[14:02] <ali1234> i can switch to another workspace with one click
[14:03] <ali1234> on gnome shell it takes several
[14:03] <brobostigon> ali1234: ctrl + alt + (left right arrow) like normal to switch workspaces under gnome.shell, same as normal gnome.
[14:03] <daubers> Afternoon
[14:04] <ali1234> that can only take you to the next or previous workspace, or i can go to any workspace i want with one click
[14:04] <brobostigon> ali1234: ye, but it works fine for me in both.
[14:06] <gord> maybe i am biased, but i like unity :) honestly, turn on auto-hide and there isn't that much difference between unity and gnome-panel + global menu
[14:06] <ali1234> 1. global menu sucks
[14:06] <ali1234> 2. where's my taskbar?
[14:07] <gord> ali1234, you are gonna want to use the classic desktop, you obviously don't want any changes at all, thats fine, thats why we have the classic desktop for you
[14:07] <ali1234> i want changes
[14:07] <ali1234> i want changes that make it better, not worse
[14:07] <ali1234> this whole "well you obviously don't want changes" rhetoric is starting to piss me off a bit actually
[14:08] <ali1234> just because i don't like the direction you are going, you assume that i don't want any change at all
[14:08] <ali1234> this is nothing but a false dichotomy, to claim that the only alternative to what you are doing is to do nothing
[14:08] <gord> well you don't seem to be contributing any other ideas, just a lot of complaining
[14:09] <penguin42> gord: Many people agree with ali1234, it's unfair to blame him
[14:09] <jacobw> I think ali1234 does usually provide an idea to go with his criticisms
[14:10] <ali1234> it's true, i do complain a lot
[14:11]  * daubers quite likes unity. Just a shame it's a bit freexzy on my laptop
[14:12] <ali1234> actually, i do wonder why unity can't be just a gnome panel applet...
[14:12] <daubers> If I boot it and leave it alone for 5 minutes or so, it just becomes unresponsive
[14:13] <ali1234> except for the global menu thing... it doesn't really do anything that an applet can't do
[14:14] <gord> global menu is an indicator, which can run in a global menu, its the dock and places that can't be panel applets. even then there are too many technical problems with the panel applet system, the api is plain awful and gnome-panel is about to become unmaintained
[14:14] <penguin42> gord: Then someone is going to have to pick up maintainership
[14:15]  * daubers ponders flattening his laptop today
[14:15] <ali1234> so is unity going to support some new method for making applets?
[14:16] <gord> unity supports indicators, which you can do quite a lot with
[14:16] <gord> penguin42, if you want to pick up maintainership, be my guest
[14:17] <ali1234> indicators only?
[14:17] <gord> indicators only
[14:17] <ali1234> indicators are buggy as hell, i hope you;re going to fix them...
[14:17] <gord> patches welcome, this is a community distro
[14:17] <gord> bug reports too
[14:18] <gord> honestly, they are not buggy at all with me
[14:18] <penguin42> gord: I'm happt to bugfix, unfortunately due to various reasons I can't take maintainership
[14:19] <ali1234> bug 576032
[14:19]  * penguin42 sees what's happening at the moment is like the KDE3->KDE4 transition; KDE4.[012] was a disaster and is starting to be useful again; Gnome is going through the same thing now
[14:19] <ali1234> this bug doesn't just affect indicator-sound though, it affects all indicator applets
[14:19] <suprengr> o/ peeps
[14:19] <ali1234> at least, any of the ones that actually display some information
[14:20] <suprengr> ali1234: never seen you sear b4! ;D
[14:20] <suprengr> *swear
[14:22] <suprengr> on unity subject... last night I installed Docky.... wouldn't that have saved some good people doing hard work on Unity some time [as in set it vertically for UNE and leave choice for desktop]
[14:23] <ali1234> perhaps... we could save even more work if we all just switched to OS X instead :)
[14:23] <suprengr> ;D
[14:26] <gord> huh, google chrome ads target linux specifically, interesting
[14:26] <penguin42> they target everything
[14:28] <ali1234> i doubt they have any specific code targeting it, beyond a generic OS check from the browser agent, and the fact that "linux" probably shows up a lot in your searches and emails...
[14:29] <ali1234> i find it more interesting that the new adsense UI completely breaks if you have adblock+ installed
[14:29] <ali1234> i'm sure they will update the filter rules soon enough though...
[14:31] <jacobw> vbulletin needs a vim mode
[14:31] <jacobw> it'd make using forums so much better
[14:34] <Joeb454> jacobw: it'd be interesting, to say the least
[14:48] <gord> jacobw, that vim extension for firefox not working for you?
[15:02] <jacobw> gord: ahem, yes, i may overlooked that :p
[15:02] <jacobw> may have even
[15:07] <ball> I seem to be giving away Ubuntu discs at work.
[15:07] <gord> \o/
[15:11] <ball> Technically it's a firing offense, but if I happen to leave one in someone's disc drive ;-)
[15:15] <jacobw> Why is it a firing offense?
[15:17] <ball> jacobw: "non-approved tools" clause.
[15:20] <Ferb> I have returned
[15:21] <ball> Not for long though, it seems.
[15:23] <Ferb> sorry, this IRC is really buggy
[15:25] <Ferb> how do I de bug this IRC?
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> "this irc" is nothing
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> you probably mean your IRC client
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> which one are you using?
[15:26] <Ferb> fIRC for android
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> get another app that works
[15:27] <Ferb> no other app for my phone will do freenode
[15:27] <hoover> cheers all
[15:27] <ball> irc on a phone sounds painful.
[15:29] <Ferb> yeah its painful alright
[15:31] <Ferb> ball, yeah its painful
[15:31] <suprengr>  oh boohga! it's snowin' again!
[15:32] <directhex> noez :(
[15:32] <Ferb> yay snow
[15:32] <suprengr> snowBALLS to that!
[15:32]  * ball to that
[15:33] <Ferb> whats so bah humbug about snow
[15:34] <suprengr> it's the driving from site to site in it - just so peeps can have atm's repaired
[15:34] <suprengr> [up to 1000 miles/week!]
[15:34] <Ferb> don't skid
[15:35] <directhex> i can't skid. my car shuts down in snow or ice
[15:35]  * ball misses field service
[15:35] <suprengr> only skid marks I make might in under garments ;)
[15:35] <suprengr> *might be
[15:36] <Ferb> oh that is bad news
[15:36]  * suprengr wonders how well he kept that polite
[15:37] <Ferb> you did very well if you ask me
[15:37] <suprengr> ;)
[15:38] <Ferb> are you English?
[15:38] <suprengr> thoroughbred!
[15:38] <suprengr> born in W. london now in Gloucestershire
[15:39] <Ferb> a what
[15:39] <Ferb> oh I sew
[15:39] <Ferb> see
[15:39] <suprengr> [or should I say - born in lahdun guvnor... now in Glarstersheeeer
[15:40] <Ferb> do you have a dog?
[15:40] <suprengr> not since it got run over -why?
[15:40] <MartijnVdS> he just ran over one 8-)
[15:41] <Ferb> just wondering if you had any pets
[15:42]  * Ferb thinks martiJVdS has a cat
[15:42]  * MartijnVdS is petless
[15:42] <suprengr> no - the bit where you go to the vet and have 'a friend' put down when some fool broke it's back puts me off any more
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: <distasteful comment ahead> It's practice for whan WW3 comes around
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> when*
[15:43] <suprengr> ouch!
[15:43] <suprengr> ...but :D
[15:44] <Ferb> I feel a punchline coming
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> anyway, I know what it's like, though my pets died "without help"
[15:44] <suprengr> MartijnVdS: life *is* better with a sense of humour, n'est pas?
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: it tends to be, yes
[15:45] <Ferb> that is sad news :(
[15:46] <suprengr> Ferb: no probs -it was years ago - never move to Swindon town centre for work with a full blown hunting dug
[15:46] <suprengr> [dug = zumerzet for dog]
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> heh
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> hoonting dug
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift ;)
[15:47] <Ferb> oh I see, I do however have a dog of my own
[15:49] <suprengr> MartijnVdS: did you see that article... the "tongue lift" - my girlfriend in zumerzet lurved the "tongue lift" ;D
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: oh is that what they call it there ;)
[15:50] <Ferb> but its not a hunting dog
[15:50] <suprengr> [to make it even better it's under the paragraph "Effect"]
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> Ferb: it's a lap dog? like all the supermodels have?
[15:51] <suprengr> 'scuse me.. the police in Richmond Park [lahdun] begged to differ after it was feet from dropping a Crown deer!
[15:51] <Ferb> well... its a household dog that did star in a few movies
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> Ferb: a poodle then?
[15:52] <directhex> poodles are hunting dogs.
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not when fully trimmed/groomed/suited up ;)
[15:53] <Ferb> nope its a mix between two breeds
[15:53]  * suprengr google Lurcher... but resists temptation yo point out it is a true crossbreed used by Gypsies & Travellers for hunting and guarenteeing food for keeper's belly.
[15:53] <directhex> MartijnVdS, especially then. notice a groomed poodle has fur on its joints? keeps it warm when swimming
[15:53] <suprengr> *to
[15:53] <directhex> gun dog!
[15:53] <suprengr> [had a poodle when a kid]
[15:54] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_dog
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeshond then?
[15:54] <suprengr> ..would also argue that yes... afull sized poodle is a hunting dog more than gun dog... but is brilliant at both
[15:55]  * MartijnVdS isn't really a dog connoisseur
[15:55] <Ferb> bye
[15:56] <screen-x> would you have an interests section in a CV? or keep it strictly relevant?
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: Depends on the place I'm sending it to
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> I work at a very informal place now, so I included it
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> of you expect full suits all the time, don't include it ;)
[15:57] <screen-x> makes sense..
[16:10] <suprengr> weeeeh!.. Dr. Who BBC1
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> now?!
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> oh christmas special
[16:11] <suprengr> yup
[16:12] <suprengr> [complete with Katherine Jenkins / Abigail's song
[16:14] <suprengr> [& Micheal Gambon of course]
[16:20] <daubers> Urgh, I really need a new USB stick. This ones had it
[16:24]  * suprengr hands daubers a nice new stick [damn... forgot the USB bit was wanted as well]
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: you're like my mother at birthdays ;)
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: "But I thought you liked mice" "Computer mice mum"
[16:25] <suprengr> :D
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[16:30] <daubers> MartijnVdS: My dad used to tell us to find our christmas pressies in the argos catalogue, then we'd point out what we want, he'd rip out the picture and give that to us
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> hah, that's cruel
[16:32] <screen-x> daubers: harsh!
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> didn't you "get wise" after a while though?
[16:57] <suprengr> daubers: sounds much like a certain prog on BBC1 right now... are you hiding the fact that you are the Dr.?
[16:57] <suprengr> .. Kazran more likely
[16:57] <suprengr> ?
[17:02] <ball> No spoilers please, some of us are five years behind.
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> ball: http://www.bbcamerica.com/
[17:03] <ball> MartijnVdS: Can't afford that.
[17:05] <ball> That's only included in expensive cable TV packages.
[17:08]  * MartijnVdS laughs at the quaint American TV system
[17:09] <ball> MartijnVdS: If I put an ariel on my roof, I could probably get one or two "stations".  If I put it on top of the 10m tower that came with the house, I might be able to get six or more.
[17:09]  * MartijnVdS laughs at the quaint American TV system some more
[17:10] <ball> Almost everyone here has satellite or Cable TV.  They pay silly money for it too.
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> You pay €20-ish for a basic package here
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> +€20-50 if you want (semi-decent) internet
[17:11] <ball> Basic cable is about US$ 30/month
[17:11] <ball> Internet would be another US$ 30
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> so about the same :)
[17:12] <ball> Basic cable is a handful of channels in analogue SD only.
[17:12] <ball> Doesn't include BBC America
[17:12] <ball> The $30 Internet rate isn't advertised, but if you ask for it you get 1 Mbit/sec
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> Ah, basic here includes ~20 analog channels, and 30 digital channels (mostly the same as analog) + HD versions of public TV (think BBC but Dutch)
[17:14] <ball> Yeah, we don't get that.
[17:14]  * MartijnVdS just gets satellite TV for €20/month, with ~500 channels :)
[17:15] <ball> That said, now that terrestrial TV has gone analogue, I could probably get two or three "streams" (channels) from the local station.  Being PBS, they broadcast BBC news.
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> (all of FreeSat, most non-Sky German and Austrian TV channels are "free", I get ~50 Dutch channels for that)
[17:15] <ball> ...and some BBC content.
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> I think they've gone digital, not analogue ;)
[17:15] <ball> (which reminds me, I have some Inspector Lewis to watch)
[17:16] <ball> MartijnVdS: erm... yes, they went from analogue to digital.
[17:16] <ball> The US is backwards technically, but not *that* backwards ;-)
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> What? They've invented basic sanitation now?! :P
[17:17] <ball> MartijnVdS: Indoor plumbing and everything!
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> wow.. too bad about the overhead wires though :)
[17:21] <ball> MartijnVdS: Overhead wires for what?  Electricity?
[17:22] <ball> Wow, VAT's going up?
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> ball: yes, electricity.. we bury wires over here :)
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> except in VERY rural areas
[17:25] <ball> MartijnVdS: Probably makes more sense to have it up a pole here because the ground freezes pretty hard.
[17:25] <ball> -20C for days on end.
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> ball == santa?
[17:26] <ball> brb
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> "brb, getting the naughty/nice list for 2011 and marking you in the 'naughty' column"
[17:28] <suprengr> Found thia [just announced via Ubuntu User newsfeed:] Ubuntu To Evaluate LibreOffice For Natty Narwhal... are falling out with OOO as well as Gnome??
[17:28] <suprengr> *are we
[17:28] <czajkowski> suprengr: not at all many are switching over to LO
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: no, the world fell out with OOo when Oracle bought Sun and did some not-so-nice things
[17:29] <howefield> "falling out" is such a dramatic phrase
[17:29] <czajkowski> does sum it up well though
[17:29] <suprengr> is it good? [over-simplified question I know but have no experience of it]
[17:29] <czajkowski> good god this diaspora thread is dragging on and on
[17:30] <jacobw> indeed it is :s
[17:30] <czajkowski> It's not an Ubuntu topic I know and while it does semi fall under oss/floss it's going on and on
[17:30] <czajkowski> ask for invites off line or mail directly instead of to the list
[17:30] <suprengr> ok .. so not "falling out". perhaps "changing direction" is more appropriate
[17:32] <suprengr> [i thought it was  suggested the diaspora thread became separated?
[17:32] <ball> I don't consider LibreOffice a change of direction.  I'm sticking with the developers! ;-)
[17:33] <KrimZon> has anyone here recently resized ntfs partitions with gparted?
[17:34] <KrimZon> hmm... actually, this shuffling around might be best done with most of the data copied to a removable drive
[17:35] <suprengr> czajkowski: yet it's not found in package list? [using 10.04 here]
[17:37]  * ball wanders off to the post office
[17:38] <suprengr> ball you found enough brown paper to post an office?
[17:51]  * suprengr goes to 10.10 partition to see if LO is in packages there... no talking behind my back please!  ;)
[17:52] <daubers> Stupid "recovery" DVDs
[17:52] <daubers> Be quicker to chew my own head off next time
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what's up with them? mine work fine
[17:53]  * MartijnVdS has used a Sony recovery DVD and a Dell one
[17:53] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Don't check the partition table, and don't check the boot records!
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> daubers: no overwrite with your own!
[17:57] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Might just replace it with a dd of the drive
[18:17] <bosstje_> irc.freenode.net
[18:17] <Azelphur> you are here ^
[18:30] <suprengr> hokay.. worried now.  libreoffice not found in 10.04 packages nor 10.10 packages either.  It used to be that Ubuntu made available in prior editions anything coming up [e.g. Shotwell].  If a move to LibreOffice is being considered, should it not be in packages by now?
[18:32] <moreati> suprengr: No. To my knowledge 10.04 and 10.10 will continue to use the OpenOffice version they shipped with. 11.04 will ship with LibreOffice 3.3
[18:34] <suprengr> moreati: so the download to try to b4 we [don't] by is only from LO site?  Not a complaint... only a remark!
[18:34] <DJones> suprengr: Have you checked the ppa's?
[18:35] <popey> there is one
[18:35] <popey> google + libreoffice + ppa + ubuntu finds it
[18:35] <suprengr> thanks popey
[18:36] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice
[18:42] <suprengr> popey: installing & trying now now... thanks again
[18:43] <suprengr> [what 2x now?.. must still be watching Dr. Who... time travel!]
[18:47]  * suprengr zzz's [ppa download sloooow]
[18:55] <jacobw> Does anyone know if the plans to mothball Evolution in favour of Thunderbird have taken form?
[18:55] <popey> which plan was that?
[18:56] <jacobw> Yeah.. I may have conflated rumors with plans :p
[19:00] <Laney> all too common
[19:02] <jacobw> I'm probably guilty of it all too often
[19:02] <suprengr> IMHO Evolution & Thunderbird as a combination is *the* best option - now & again clear gmail via ThunderB  for security- use Evo for storage.  Perfeck!
[19:03] <jacobw> Come to think of it, with Ubuntu One, the default install is probably more tied to Evolution now than it was before with Contact sync
[19:05] <suprengr> jacobw: the Thunderbird option was talked about - but for UNE only - not desktop. [as far as I am aware.]
[19:06] <Nafallo> suprengr: there is no UNE anymore :-)
[19:07] <suprengr> wot.. *no* netbook edition anymore... wad'I miss?
[19:07] <marsilainen> is it just me, or does ubuntu seem not to come with a nice selection of fonts for creating title graphics etc?
[19:08] <Nafallo> suprengr: unity as desktop default? :-)
[19:10] <suprengr> ah now I understand.  Personally I stand by my guns & say *wrong*!  Why are so many good people doing very hard work when a modified Docky would have done it straight off?  [Vertical display for UNE & user chooses for desktop?
[19:10]  * suprengr crys
[19:10] <suprengr> *cries
[19:14] <suprengr> [& no - I'm not going to join the Unity argument... my point is clear enough]
[19:19] <suprengr> LibreOffice - install failed [despite claiming success... the "package install failed msg was a good clue ;) ... thank heavens for bleachbit :D
[23:30] <ocean> hi guys. i have just installed ubuntu 10.10 64 bit on my hp dv6-3150sa laptop.installation was flawless. After restarting the first thing I did was to install the updates. a message poped up for a restricted driver for my graphic card, which i installed as well. When i restared my computer i found my desktop missing and its takin me to the command mode. can any one help pls


[04:06] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:03] <ducasse> good morning
[10:18] <vmguy23m> good morning
[11:11] <wyoung> good evening
[11:11] <wyoung> Lets discuss Ubuntu now!
[11:11] <wyoung> Any good light weight Ubuntu docker images?
[11:12] <wyoung> Or should i do Debian buster or AlpineLinux?
[11:24] <vmguy23m> I don;t really do Docker (might try it though)
[11:25] <vmguy23m> What is it?
[11:30] <wyoung> vmguy23m: A container management infrasturuce
[11:30] <vmguy23m> I don't really know about containers
[11:30] <wyoung> like LXC but multiplatform and smarter with its own repo
[11:30] <wyoung> LXC on steroids without the roid rage
[11:40] <[VMGuy23]> i DON'T KNOW WHAT lxc IS
[11:41] <[VMGuy23]> Whoops, sorry about caps
[11:42] <wyoung> [VMGuy23]: It's a linux thing
[11:42] <wyoung> linux containers supported by the kernel
[11:47] <daftykins> the thinking is that instead of booting up and running entire VMs which consume more resources to bring up a whole other kernel and OS to manage, just load up the bare essentials to support the service you want to run linked against the host's kernel
[11:47] <daftykins> personally i'll stick to VMs though (: don't get the container hype
[11:47] <daftykins> it probably suits web apps well? not sure
[11:48] <[VMGuy23]> I have 4 VMs currently, none running
[11:49] <wyoung> daftykins: Docker has an extra layer though, well, depending on the OS,.
[11:49] <wyoung> [VMGuy23]: But you are VM guy
[11:49] <wyoung> you should have at least 23 of them
[11:49] <daftykins> yeah this strikes me as false advertising ;)
[11:49] <wyoung> :P
[11:50] <[VMGuy23]> I only have 185GB total disk space, 23 is a bit too much
[11:50] <[VMGuy23]> If i had 2 or 3 it could be 2-3
[11:50] <daftykins> not if they are all server installs ;)
[11:50] <[VMGuy23]> Got to go, be back
[11:53] <wyoung> gg
[12:33] <[VMGuy23]> I'm back
[12:33] <wyoung> WB VM GUy 23
[12:34] <[VMGuy23]> ?
[12:35] <wyoung> WB = Welcome Back
[12:35] <[VMGuy23]> Oh, makes sense
[12:40] <wyoung> <3
[12:40] <wyoung> Lets pal team it up
[12:40] <wyoung> Discuss
[12:43] <[VMGuy23]> wyoung: I like Rythmbox but GNOME Music is good
[12:44] <wyoung> Lets discuss
[12:44] <wyoung> It is good
[12:44] <wyoung> but I can't tell you how to use it here, we need to switch back to #ubuntu for support.
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> you sure can discuss it here
[12:45] <[VMGuy23]> I've had a bad experience (crashes, freezes) with a lot of Linux software, from my time on Raspberry Pi (started on 3B+, then got 4)
[12:46] <wyoung> lotuspsychje: but up tp a point, if you offer support then you need to switch
[12:47] <wyoung> [VMGuy23]: You get what you pay for.,
[12:48] <lotuspsychje> wyoung: you can discuss supporting software in here aswell, things that dont really fot into #ubuntu for example
[12:48] <lotuspsychje> *fit
[12:49] <wyoung> oh?
[12:49] <wyoung> What if it does fit into Ubuntu?
[12:49] <wyoung> Will I be asked to leave and goto Ubuntu instead?
[12:50] <lotuspsychje> wyoung: if you seek ubuntu support join #ubuntu
[12:50]  * pauljw wonders why we bother with a channel topic
[12:52] <lotuspsychje> its really not so hard to divide support questions from discussions
[12:53] <wyoung> I am just asking because I want to know which channel is more anal about the division,
[13:00] <Maik> wyoung: how long have you been on IRC?
[13:01] <wyoung> Maik: Too long, which is why I asked
[13:01] <Maik> then you'd know by know how things work
[13:01] <wyoung> I do, ops are usually nazis, fascists and hypocrites.
[13:02] <wyoung> That trend needs to change though
[13:03] <Maik> careful what you say because of the CoC and channel guidlines that apply in all the buntu channels
[13:03] <wyoung> Maik: I understand, the secret police will get me
[13:04] <wyoung> Maik: The CoC needs to apply to ops too
[13:05] <Maik> of course
[13:06] <wyoung> I have never seen that enforced
[13:07] <wyoung> Although talking about it here is within topic right?
[13:07] <Maik> depends on how someone behaves, saying ops are usually nazis, fascists and hypocrites can get you banned
[13:08] <Maik> wyoung: read the topic and you know
[13:08] <wyoung> Maik: That is my experience on ops in IRC, are you saying I am wrong?
[13:08] <Maik> sigh
[13:08] <jeremy31> What channel did you come from?
[13:08] <wyoung> jeremy31: Pyhon
[13:08] <wyoung> Python*
[13:09] <jeremy31> That isn't covered by Ubuntu COC
[13:09] <wyoung> Including the dicuss channel?
[13:09] <Maik> yes
[13:10] <Maik> all ubuntu related channels
[13:10] <jeremy31> wyoung: Ubuntu CoC covers any channel with #ubuntu
[13:10] <wyoung> OK
[13:10] <Maik> wow and he's been on irc for a long time....
[13:10] <wyoung> I have been
[13:10] <wyoung> On channels that don't start with #ubuntu
[13:11] <[VMGuy23]> I've been on IRC for 3 weeks I think
[13:11] <jeremy31> I was on some channels back in the late 1990s
[13:11] <wyoung> jeremy31: early 1990s here
[13:11] <jeremy31> We didn't have internet here until late 1995
[13:16] <[VMGuy23]> Windows NT Server existed before 1995 I think
[13:44] <daftykins> correct
[13:45] <daftykins> 95's desktop UI was ported over from NT
[13:46] <[VMGuy23]> NT originally had Program Manager
[13:49] <[VMGuy23]> I think they got the design update at a similar time
[20:29] <glamboy> Hi, I am looking for an answer, and sorry if it is a sensitive topic, but I am honestly confused and lost. I used to be an Ubuntu user back in the Ubuntu 6.06 days, and now find myself with technologies such as snap and flatpak, and feel like I've dropped off somewhere.
[20:30] <glamboy> When I used Ubuntu, we used /opt for self-contained applications, or /usr/local. Does this relate to flatpak/snap?
[20:31] <glamboy> I sincerely don't know, because I usually thought that self-contained applications were to be installed in /opt, and now this snap thing seems to go on an entirely different direction.
[20:31] <Bashing-om> glamboy: flatpac and snap are similat - ubuntu adheres to snap packing for IOT containerization, Life on the desktop can go on without snaps :)
[20:31] <Bashing-om> similar*
[20:31] <hggdh> glamboy: high-level, snaps and flatpaks carry all dependencies for the application to run. This makes it possible to deploy the very same snap/flatpak on different distro's versions, without the need to backport and rebuild against a specific distribution version
[20:32] <glamboy> Ok. But if I were to, say, make a .deb package with a folder structure in /opt and add static libraries, would it be considered ok in a backports/untrusted sort of repository or a PPA?
[20:33] <glamboy> Just thinking, because I started building something using a custom folder structure, and my idea was to set it up in /opt with its static libraries, etc.
[20:34] <glamboy> Would it be ok to make a .deb with this type of structure, or am I better off learning these new technologies?
[20:36] <hggdh> it is OK to build and/or deploy actual packages
[20:37] <hggdh> in your PPAs you can build them for whichever distro versions you want. The advantage of snap/flatpak is would would only need to build ONE, for all versions.
[20:38] <glamboy> Ok, so it's a matter of safely keeping software across versions, not just self-containment.
[20:39] <hggdh> both, probably. In general, in a snap/flatpak you cannot change the *system*. But you would do better to study them before trying
[20:39] <jeremy31> Just have to maintain one version for all supported Ubuntu versions
[20:40] <glamboy> In flatpak, my software would always work even in the case of an upgrade, whereas a self-contained .deb in /opt would have to be rebuilt with every new version.
[20:40] <glamboy> snap/flatpak(
[20:41] <glamboy> I am partial to the self-contained .deb in /opt route, because it's uniform with the rest of the packages that the distro brings, and because it's so easy to maintain, just a few more checks around copying the file to /opt/<provider>
[20:42] <glamboy> But this whole cross-upgrade dimension seems interesting as well.