[17:00] <artnay> kelemengabor: ping, remember bug 934428?
[17:00] <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/934428
[17:00] <kelemengabor> artnay: looking
[17:00] <artnay> if I recall correctly, it was something about compiling something (yelp?) with some old version
[17:00] <artnay> in Debian
[17:01] <artnay> kelemengabor: as you have an account to Gnome bugzilla, you can probably find the bug there
[17:01] <artnay> you've commented it
[17:01] <kelemengabor> oh yes, I saw this earlier
[17:01] <artnay> this is a new report as the old one was closed for some reason
[17:02] <artnay> the bug is still present in precise
[17:02] <kelemengabor> not still - again. :)
[17:03] <artnay> ah, ok. I never saw it fixed
[17:03] <kelemengabor> In Oneiric, it was fixed by a newer upload of ubuntu docs, which contained updated translations
[17:03] <kelemengabor> Precise, looks like has some older translations in the documentation
[17:04] <kelemengabor> but I think this is normal at this point of the cycle
[17:04] <kelemengabor> the good news is that there is nothing wrong with the toolchain, only the data files are somewhat obsolete
[17:06] <artnay> kelemengabor: let's wait and see if the situation changes, thanks for looking.


[12:25] <Adri2000> when is the freeze ending?
[12:25] <Nafallo> when herd 3 is released
[12:26] <Adri2000> Nafallo: right, ETA was today I believe, delayed?
[12:27] <Nafallo> oh. right. it must be. hadn't struck me yet :-)
[06:07] <kro> I'm trying to use the netboot images for fiesty located here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/
[06:08] <kro> I start booting the installer, and it craps out with a message about not being able to find the kernel
[06:09] <kro> this is after detecting the keyboard.
[07:25] <orkid> i hope you don't mind me asknig in devel, but ubuntu wasn't much insight yet, but why is port 32768 open?
[07:25] <orkid> (feisty)
[07:27] <orkid> hmm, i'll try the forums
[07:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:57] <mneptok> arr, pitti
[07:58] <zakame> yo pitti
[08:43] <pitti> hey mneptok, good morning!
[08:53] <mneptok> morgen!
[09:27] <rideout> dbus-uuidgen is giving me the following error in feisty,
[09:27] <rideout> symbol lookup error: dbus-uuidgen: undefined symbol: dbus_internal_do_not_use_create_uuid
[09:29] <dholbach> good morning
[10:09] <pitti> heno: good mornign
[10:09] <pitti> heno: it would be nice if the iso test bug summaries could mention a list of test cases
[10:10] <heno> pitti: ! Thanks for testing with the new tracker How is it working for you?
[10:10] <pitti> heno: takes a bit to get used to, but not bad
[10:11] <cjwatson> kro_afk: we just changed the kernel ABI, so you need to make sure that you have a very current installer
[10:11] <pitti> heno: my biggest struggle is actually finding installer bugs I filed ages ago and which I now re-detect
[10:11] <heno> pitti: would a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods suffice?
[10:11] <heno> right
[10:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have any idea why sim ftbfs?  It seems to be pkgstrip-tingabob related.
[10:11] <pitti> heno: probably, but why not just add it to the summary? I guess you have a script which creates those reports anyway?
[10:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: will look at it
[10:11] <pitti> mvo: good mornign
[10:12] <pitti> mvo: thanks for the nice apport demo on the live system :-P
[10:12] <mvo> good morning pitti!
[10:12] <heno> pitti: Tollef does, yes
[10:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[10:12] <heno> Hm, I think I'll make a wiki page for feedback like this
[10:12] <heno> and then review before Herd 4
[10:13] <Mithrandir> pitti: sfllaw promised me a text to put in the bug reports.  He has so far failed to do so, but improvements are certainly welcome.
[10:13] <pitti> heno: another thing is that it is now pretty hard to see what still needs testing
[10:13] <pitti> heno: maybe bughelper can help us with creating a table-like report, similar to the Testing/Current page?
[10:14] <heno> pitti: my idea for that was to (ab)use the importance setting
[10:14] <pitti> heno: I meant 'oh, amd64/alternate still needs OEM tested'
[10:14] <dholbach> pitti: we have a format_wiki() function already - I was never sure which format to use, but if anybody wants to hack that, that's cool
[10:14] <heno> High for still needs testing, Critical for failed (needs fixing), Wishlist for tested plenty already
[10:15] <pitti> heno: ah, that's a good first step
[10:15] <pitti> dholbach: yay :)
[10:15] <heno> pitti: yes, more important for Beta and onwards, but we should get it working. Perhaps a separate bug for each test case
[10:18] <pitti> hmm, did anyone try live/check? it boots straight into the live system for me
[10:19] <cjwatson> heno: once this has all settled down, a post to ubuntu-devel-announce about how developers can process the results would be good
[10:19] <heno> cjwatson: yep, and some thoughts on improvements
[10:21] <macd> bug #78282 is there someone I can contact as to an ETA>?
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78282 in vnc4 "vnc4server does not start Desktop environment after security update" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78282
[10:21] <givre> ogra: hello. i think i'm ok with the fuse merge. debdiff -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3808/
[10:21] <pitti> macd: it's known and it's veery ugly, will take some time to fix
[10:22] <macd> I was digging through it some, yes its definetly no quick hack.
[10:23] <macd> pitti, tyvm btw.
[10:24] <givre> ogra: i use the udev rules to mount the fuse control filesystem, but i don't unmount it with the rule, because 1. it's impossible (AFAIK). 2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs
[10:24] <givre> ogra: what do you think ?
[10:24] <pitti> macd: we could do some nasty hacks to put back the original edgy debs into -security, but it would be better to actually track down the toolchain/library regression that caused this mess
[10:25] <cjwatson> we're not going to downgrade
[10:25] <macd> well since edgy gets a feature feeze soon, I dont think nasty hacks are the best plan of action, and nor do you ;)
[10:25] <cjwatson> macd: er ... feisty is the one feature-freezing, edgy is released
[10:25] <macd> yeah, my mistake.
[10:26] <macd> 3:30am here.
[10:26] <pitti> cjwatson: no, re-label the edgy .debs with a higher -security version number, but that's really something I'd try to avoid
[10:26] <cjwatson> 9:30am doesn't make me any more awake than you, believe me :-/
[10:27] <mneptok> screw you all ;)
[10:27] <macd> well, not any more awake, but surely more aware, 20 hours in front of a PC tends to take its toll on your minds sharpness
[10:28] <macd> ohh, thats a nasty shift.
[10:29] <mneptok> in at 2300, out at 0800. your complaints of "it's late!" fall on deaf ears here. :)
[10:29] <mneptok> (of course, when i complain that it's late at 1700UTC you can all point and laugh) ;)
[10:30] <macd> If I spent less time in #ubuntu answering questionbs and more time working, well....we all know
[10:30] <macd> yes, its 5pm somewhere, right now.
[10:34] <Kano> hi Mithrandir
[10:35] <Kano> hi niktaris
[10:35] <Kano> is there something wrong with pbuilder now?
[10:35] <Kano> it stops at
[10:35] <Kano> I: Configuring console-setup...
[10:35] <Kano> I: Configuring ubuntu-minimal...
[10:35] <Kano> I: Base system installed successfully.
[10:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: sim> 'Error: Package: and Architecture: do not alternate in debian/control' -> ah, that's pretty clear then; duplicate Architecture: field or so
[10:36] <heno> Mithrandir: are you monitoring the 'ISO bug' comments for found bugs and/or should I copy them over to Testing/Current?
[10:37] <Kano> is there a tool to create current snapshots of alternative/desktop images?
[10:37] <Kano> would need that...
[10:39] <Kano> btw. openoffice draw lacks a kde menu entry
[10:42] <Riddell> Kano: hmm, so it does
[10:43] <Riddell> "NoDisplay=true"  that'll be why
[10:44] <Kano> hi Riddell
[10:44] <Kano> do you know why i cant create a pbuilder environment?
[10:45] <Kano> i deleted the old, need a new...
[10:45] <Riddell> "Base system installed successfully" sounds like a success to me
[10:47] <Kano> Riddell: nope, it stops
[10:47] <Kano> thats wrong
[10:55] <Kano> i guess debootstrap is somehow wrong
[10:56] <cjwatson> seems unlikely
[10:56] <seb128> do we use wodim instead of cdrecord as Debian do?
[10:56] <cjwatson> debootstrap's hardly changed in ages and it works in lots of other situationsn
[10:56] <cjwatson> seb128: yes
[10:56] <seb128> ok
[10:56] <seb128> so I need to update nautilus-cd-burner
[10:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: it is?  I can't find it.
[10:56] <seb128> it tries calling readcd by example
[10:56] <cjwatson> I thought we had a wrapper scripts
[10:56] <Mithrandir> heno: just about to investigate
[10:56] <cjwatson> script
[10:56] <Kano> well not the debootstrap package itself, but maybe some main tools
[10:57] <seb128> cjwatson: I've no readcd on my feisty apparently
[10:57] <cjwatson> ah
[10:59] <seb128> hum
[10:59] <seb128> that has been fixed with 9:1.1.1-1 to Debian
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: hi
[11:00] <seb128> hey pitti
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: new installs currently have both n-m and the gnome network monitor in the panel
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: against what shall I file that bug?
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: you want the network monitor applet to be dropped probably?
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: gnome-panel
[11:01] <Kano> it is debootstrap that hangs, just tested
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: right
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: ok, will do
[11:01] <seb128> danke
[11:02] <Kano> debootstrap feisty feisty-test http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[11:02] <Kano> try yourself
[11:13] <Kano> you might need to do
[11:13] <Kano> ps aux |grep deboot|awk '{print $2}'|xargs -r kill -9
[11:14] <Kano> umount feisty-test/proc feisty-test/sys
[11:14] <Kano> in case it locks for you too...
[11:14] <cjwatson> I maintain debootstrap in Ubuntu insofar as anyone does; I know how to clean up after it :-)
[11:15] <cjwatson> Kano: works fine for me
[11:15] <cjwatson> Kano: I suspect your system is misconfigured somehow, although I don't know how
[11:15] <_ion> kano: pgrep deboot | xargs ...
[11:15] <cjwatson> jeez, pkill
[11:15] <_ion> Argh, such a brainfart. :-)
[11:17] <cjwatson> after the message you mention seeing, debootstrap does: kill old temporary sources.list and set up a new one; save log file; sync; clean up $TARGET/debootstrap
[11:17] <cjwatson> I suppose sync might hang if your kernel oopsed in the meantime
[11:20] <Kano> does not matter, it stops
[11:20] <fabbione> morning
[11:21] <Kano> i will not fix it manually...
[11:21] <Kano> i need it for pbuilder
[11:25] <Kano> well maybe sync is the problem
[11:25] <Kano> will test it later
[11:27] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you could actually verify that installs worked, etc, (in the ubuntu-iso-testing bugs), that'd be good.
[11:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, ok
[11:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: I thought 'no news is good news'
[11:28] <Mithrandir> well, true, but I'd like an explicit confirmation so it's not just "pressed submit too early and forgot"
[11:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, will do from now on
[11:30] <Mithrandir> thanks
[11:31] <Kano> Mithrandir: can you tell me how to build install/desktop iso snapshots?
[11:32] <Mithrandir> Kano: use debian-cd
[11:33] <Kano> is it for livecds too?
[11:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80589 in gnome-app-install "daily live comes with crash report - pre-populated!" [High,Confirmed]
[11:35] <Kano> Mithrandir: are you sure it is for feisty? i only see etch entries..
[11:35] <Kano> also itis from universe
[11:35] <Kano> so what tool do you use
[11:35] <Mithrandir> we use debian-cd.
[11:36] <cjwatson> the debian-cd in the archive is Debian's, not ours
[11:36] <Kano> and where is yours
[11:36] <Kano> bzr something?
[11:36] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/cdimage/mainline/ and references in configs/devel having checked that out
[11:36] <cjwatson> it's a pain to set up, though. Don't waste your time on it unless you really really have to
[11:36] <cjwatson> you need a full local mirror and all sorts of stuff
[11:37] <Kano> why doent it work with a internet mirror?
[11:37] <cjwatson> I'm not going to attempt to support it; folks using it need to be smart enough to support themselves :-)
[11:37] <cjwatson> because it doesn't
[11:37] <cjwatson> deal :)
[11:37] <Kano> ok, need a new hd first then ;)
[11:39] <Kano> cjwatson: and when i juse fuse to mount an ftp server to local dir?
[11:39] <Kano> curlftpfs can do that
[11:39] <Mithrandir> it'd be bloody slow and you need to hardlink stuff, so it still wouldn't work.
[11:40] <cjwatson> debian-cd *can* use a symlink farm (see its README) but it's not well-tested because everyone using it for serious CD-building installations just has a big disk with a local mirror
[11:41] <cjwatson> which is by far the most efficient option if you're doing it seriously
[11:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: how are your images?
[11:42] <cjwatson> heno: re braille-support, brltty's bluetooth driver doesn't seem to need a PIN
[11:42] <Kano> cjwatson: will keep this in mind. how big is ubuntu main currently?
[11:42] <cjwatson> or indeed know how to accept it
[11:43] <cjwatson> ^[[Acjwatson@lithium:~$ du -s cdimage/ftp
[11:43] <cjwatson> 90917604        cdimage/ftp
[11:43] <cjwatson> so 90GB
[11:44] <Kano> hmm but not only feisty i think
[11:44] <cjwatson> sure, but cdimage doesn't bother selecting by release because that's more effort than just rsyncing the lot
[11:44] <cjwatson> I have no idea how big feisty/main is and it isn't entirely trivial to find out
[11:44] <Kano> rync all is a bit much...
[11:44] <cjwatson> sum up the Size fields in all the relevant Packages and Sources files
[11:44] <Mithrandir> use debmirror and then du it, but why care?  Disk space is cheap.
[11:45] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Thats about right. The config file has nothing relating to bluetooth pins in it, only to do with the BlueTooth address.
[11:45] <TheMuso> WOuldn't hurt to consult upstream about that, which I'll do now.
[11:45] <Kano> Mithrandir: do you optimize the desktop isos for speed later?
[11:46] <cjwatson> TheMuso: I'm just attempting the integration now
[11:46] <Mithrandir> Kano: no, that's done earlier.
[11:46] <Kano> so you get a sortlist before
[11:46] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I have a serial display here, so I can't test bluetooth, but would be happy to test in general.
[11:47] <heno> cjwatson: well, if it will work without a PIN that's better I guess
[11:47] <cjwatson> TheMuso: plan is to blat brltty-udeb.sh and the udev rules into the regular brltty package as well, make braille-setup use /lib/brltty/brltty.sh so that it can kill any running brltty if need be, and hook it in from init scripts and the like to be used if you give brltty=ask on the kernel command line
[11:49] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Sounds good.
[11:50] <mvo> Mithrandir: a quick question on ia32-libs-gtk. I fixed a pango problem in it and refreshed them with "BUILD=0 ./fetch-and-build" along the way. is that sufficient? or is there more that needs to be doen before a upload?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> mvo: you probably want to build the orig.tar.gz too
[11:51] <cjwatson> heno,TheMuso: instead of a USB port, brltty seems to want the serial number of the display (or empty to autodetect)
[11:51] <cjwatson> (just answering a comment in braille-setup
[11:51] <cjwatson> )
[11:52] <mvo> Mithrandir: _24_ seems to not have a orig.tar.gz. how do I build the orig.tar.gz for this package?
[11:52] <Mithrandir> mvo: with tar and gzip
[11:53] <cjwatson> I think it's then just /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b auto -d "bluetooth:$b_address", /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b "$s_model" -d "serial:ttyS$s_port", /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b "$u_model" -d "usb:$u_serial" as appropriate
[11:53] <heno> cjwatson: so for USB it shouldn't need any port info, but for a serial display conected to a USB-Serial dongle it would need the Serial port #
[11:54] <cjwatson> actually I think I'll add -E to that
[11:54] <cjwatson> heno: brltty(1) doesn't document any way to do that though?
[11:55] <cjwatson> heno: oh, are we talking about /dev/ttyUSB$n here?
[11:55] <heno> cjwatson: if that is serial via USB, then yes
[11:56] <cjwatson> aha, right
[11:56] <cjwatson> I'll make it clearer in braille-setup, then, and say that other USB devices will be autodetected
[11:56] <heno> right, thanks
[11:57] <heno> cjwatson: Dave Mielke and I are actually working on a better version where we clarify some of these things
[11:57] <cjwatson> heno: heh, I've already forked the script ;)
[11:58] <heno> ok, go with that then :)
[11:58] <cjwatson> perhaps I can upload what I've got and you guys can tweak
[11:58] <heno> cjwatson: sounds great
[11:58] <TheMuso> So this script will be run if the accessibility script in casper finds anything on the command line right?
[11:59] <cjwatson> brltty=ask specifically
[11:59] <TheMuso> yeah I know.
[11:59] <cjwatson> I wasn't planning to do it via casper, actually
[11:59] <TheMuso> ah ok
[11:59] <cjwatson> reason is that it needs to interact with the user via read(1), and by the time casper runs usplash is up
[11:59] <TheMuso> point
[11:59] <cjwatson> so instead, I suggest doing it in the initramfs, right after console configuration
[11:59] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: why does it need read(1) and can't use the usplash input infrastructure?
[12:00] <cjwatson> well, casper's in the initramfs too, but earlier in the initramfs
[12:00] <Mithrandir> hm, because the user can't see, maybe?
[12:00] <cjwatson> I think in this case it's best for it to be as simple as possible
[12:00] <bhale> can anyone tell me why the ubuntumembers team in launchpad has marked me as 'expired'? i am still somewhat active since the very begining
[12:00] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: According to heno, this is for deaf blind people who may have assistance.
[12:00] <TheMuso> ...I think
[12:00] <cjwatson> if somebody wants to move it into usplash, fine, but we can do it before usplash starts
[12:01] <cjwatson> bhale: all memberships are for a term of two years - the intent is to renew explicitly if the person's active
[12:02] <bhale> cjwatson: i see, i understood them to lapse only in the event of inactivity. thanks
[12:02] <cjwatson> bhale: unfortunately I'm not sure what the renewal process is because I've sort of been phasing out of the CC - I can renew it for a week to cover the next CC meeting though
[12:02] <bhale> cjwatson: that would be cool, iirc mail is linked to that group
[12:02] <cjwatson> I don't know if Mark wants to do explicit turn-up-to-meetings-type renewals or what
[12:03] <bhale> alright, ill put myself on an agenda
[12:04] <bhale> hm, the topic of expiring members in general is the topic of the next CC
[12:04] <TheMuso> haha
[12:04] <cjwatson> yes, preferably the CC should handle this when members are about to expire rather than waiting until they do
[12:06] <cjwatson> heno: I'm renaming it to brltty-setup to make it clearer what package it belongs to
[12:11] <Kano> would it be possible to get latest ati (8.33.6 currently), latest nvidia 9746 and 9631 and 7184 in the restriced package? btw. nvidia-legacy driver does not need any udev hack anymore
[12:11] <Kano> 3 nvidia drivers would be best...
[12:11] <Mithrandir> I doubt we'll do three drivers.
[12:12] <bhale> it takes 3 drivers to support all hardware
[12:12] <Kano> but they are needed if you want to support full range
[12:12] <pitti> hi tkamppeter
[12:13] <Kano> i can easyly detect and switch between em,but currently i would have to package em manually or download the installers
[12:13] <Kano> i have a working script but would like to seemlessly integrate
[12:14] <Kano> pc linux os has 3 packages... nvida-71xx, -96xx , -97xx
[12:14] <Kano> just for example for a better naming scheme
[12:16] <Kano> btw. do you patch the avm drivers to add support for the compatible hardware?
[12:16] <Kano> one driver can be patched
[12:16] <Kano> (just differnt usb id needed)
[12:17] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[12:18] <tkamppeter> pitti, did you upload the fixed m2300w yesterday? Or did you wait because of the Herd 3 freeze?
[12:19] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/fix/fxusb_cz.patch
[12:19] <Kano> basically you copy the fxusb source and apply that patch
[12:20] <Kano> then you get a fxusb_cz too... that works
[12:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: I uploaded it, but it's stuck in unapproved due to the freeze
[12:22] <Kano> mv fxusb_cz/lib/fxusb-lib.o fxusb_cz/lib/fxusb_cz-lib.o
[12:22] <Kano> dont forget to rename the precompiled part for that change...
[12:25] <janimo> Mithrandir: hi, can you roll xubuntu images when you have soem time? thanks
[12:26] <Mithrandir> janimo: "roll out" meaning publish or create or what?
[12:26] <janimo> Mithrandir: roll, like whatever it takes to have iso-s on cdimage :)
[12:26] <janimo> last ones are for Jan 30th
[12:27] <Mithrandir> janimo: alternate images being created, livefs creating too running.
[12:27] <janimo> thanks
[12:32] <Kano> what the preferred way to disable that bootsplash thing after boot?
[12:32] <Kano> i really dislikethat i see nothing when i stop kdm
[12:34] <Seveas> Kano, #ubuntu for support
[12:35] <bhale> Seveas: is the next CC scheduled? the wiki page says no
[12:36] <Seveas> bhale, I just poked the CC about it for the third time
[12:36] <bhale> ok.thanks
[12:36] <Kano> Riddell: there is even twice NoDisplay=true in /usr/share/applications/ooo-math.desktop ...
[12:39] <Riddell> doko: I presume NoDisplay in ooo-maths and ooo-draw are deliberate?
[12:41] <Kano> Riddell: how about: Categories=Application;Office;VectorGraphics
[12:43] <doko> Riddell: was decided when we cleaned up the menu structure for dapper
[12:44] <Kano> stupid decision...
[12:44] <cjwatson> TheMuso: hmm, brltty doesn't *strictly* need to be started in the initramfs, does it? only configure
[12:44] <cjwatson> d
[12:44] <Riddell> makes sense, I don't see much need to run ooo maths as a separate application
[12:44] <TheMuso> cjwatson: No. It has an init script.
[12:44] <Kano> math ok, but graphics
[12:44] <Riddell> although it's a bug not to include a ; at the end of the Categories list
[12:44] <carlos> pitti: btw, I just disabled language pack exports to do another Feisty opening test
[12:45] <cjwatson> TheMuso: starting persistent processes in the initramfs is a pain, so if possible I'd like to just configure it and then have the init script start it up
[12:45] <cjwatson> ok, great
[12:45] <carlos> pitti: so we will not get daily updates this weekend
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: ok for me; I'm just uploading new dapper packs, btw
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: that's fine, cronjobs are off anyway
[12:45] <carlos> base ones?
[12:45] <heno> cjwatson: right, Dave wanted to just add some entries at the bottom of /etc/brltty.conf
[12:45] <carlos> ok
[12:45] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Howd you plan to do that?
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: right, the ones from Monday
[12:45] <carlos> ok
[12:45] <TheMuso> As in, let the init script know what we want
[12:45] <cjwatson> TheMuso: write out /etc/brltty.conf
[12:45] <heno> cjwatson: and then have ubiquity copy the modified script over
[12:45] <TheMuso> RIghto.
[12:45] <carlos> did you get a confirmation from people complaining about missing translations, that those packages fixes their issue?
[12:46] <cjwatson> it'll take two initramfs hooks because usplash starts before the root filesystem is mounted, but whatever
[12:46] <TheMuso> WHich means we can get the casper ubiquity stuff to copy it over at install time.
[12:46] <cjwatson> 'zactly
[12:46] <heno> \o/
[12:46] <doko> Kano: ranting doesn't help; if you want to change it, write a new menu spec for feisty+1
[12:46] <cjwatson> or even just have brltty install a ubiquity hook, maybe
[12:46] <TheMuso> Sounds good.
[12:46] <cjwatson> I'm all for splitting this stuff out into separate packages to make it easier to mix and match
[12:47] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/herd-3.txt proofreading needed.
[12:48] <cjwatson> The requested URL /herd-3.txt was not found on this server.
[12:48] <Mithrandir> http://err.no/tmp/herd-3.txt
[12:48] <cjwatson> hah, I guessed right
[12:48] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks for the info, thought already about a thing like this
[12:48] <TheMuso> heno: DO you think this is a good time to discuss transitioning to espeak and getting things set for using espeak's different voices for languages?
[12:48] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: please add the hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false workaround for the install CD han
[12:48] <cjwatson> g
[12:49] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: also please mention that if the new partitioner doesn't work then you can fall back to the old one by running 'ubiquity --old-partitioner' from a terminal
[12:50] <heno> TheMuso: we should look at the patches Gilles made. Those should take care of it
[12:50] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: looks good?
[12:50] <TheMuso> heno: What patches?
[12:50] <heno> Have all his patches to gnome-speech and the newest espeak made it into the repos?
[12:51] <TheMuso> hang on, going to -accessibility
[12:51] <janimo> Mithrandir: is it worth mentioning that gnome-power-manager does not start by default in herd3?
[12:52] <Mithrandir> janimo: it does not?
[12:52] <janimo> Mithrandir: it got ist autostart file dropped in a recent upload
[12:52] <janimo> by accident
[12:52] <Mithrandir> ok
[12:53] <Mithrandir> what's the easiest way to start it by hand?
[12:53] <janimo> gnome-power-manager from the console I guess
[12:55] <Mithrandir> janimo: looks good now?
[12:55] <janimo> Mithrandir: yes
[12:56] <janimo> it'd be good if someone else who tested recent livecds confirmed this though
[12:56] <janimo> Scott noticed it yesterday
[01:00] <ogra> Mithrandir, sorry, sorry, sorry .... edubuntu is ready indeed
[01:00] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: no, not gksudo
[01:00] <pitti> janimo: confirmed; is there a bug about it already?
[01:00] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: just 'ubiquity --old-partitioner'. It raises privileges in the appropriate way itself
[01:00] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh, ok
[01:00] <DHGE> hi! anyone to confirm that the texlive/tetex dependencies are fixed like in debian? i am having problems apt-getting packages with texlive installed
[01:00] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok now?
[01:00] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: "The primary focus ... have been" -> has been
[01:01] <janimo> pitti yes there;s ab ug, ogra knows about it
[01:01] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: rest looks fine
[01:01] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I think I can blame Hobbsee for that, she proofread it last time.
[01:01] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: thanks a lot.
[01:02] <Mithrandir> janimo: alternate xubuntu ready.
[01:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, heh, I found the reason for the sim FTBFS; debian/rules defines a variable that pkg-create-dbgsym expects to be empty initially
[01:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: *cough*. :-P
[01:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: will fix p-c-d and ask for a give-back after it reaches the archives next wek
[01:03] <pitti> week
[01:03] <ogra> janimo, the gpm doesnt start bug ?
[01:04] <janimo> ogra: yes
[01:04] <janimo> Mithrandir: thanks
[01:04] <ogra> a fixed package is sitting on my disk ... waiting for the archive lock to go away
[01:07] <DHGE> in feisty: tex4ht (20060913-1) depends: tetex-bin OR texlive-base-bin     :-)
[01:10] <Mithrandir> janimo: -live ones ready too.
[01:11] <DHGE> the html in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-3/ is broken
[01:11] <Mithrandir> DHGE: how so?
[01:11] <Mithrandir> ah, fixed.
[01:11] <DHGE> look and see
[01:12] <Mithrandir> it'll be visible on the next mirror run
[01:12] <heno> Mithrandir: I've used the Status field to indicate how an image is doing. 'In Progress' means several successful installs reported, 'Need Info' means just one test (and we would ideally like more) Unconfirmed is no testing reported or heno doesn't know if the reports are good enough (or if the bugs reported are RC)
[01:13] <Mithrandir> heno: ok, sounds useful.
[01:13] <Mithrandir> heno: I'll mark a couple of them as fix released, though
[01:13] <pitti> ooh, the new ubiquity partitioner! if it only would allow me to create a /home partition
[01:13] <heno> Mithrandir: cool
[01:14] <cjwatson> pitti: hmm?
[01:14] <pitti> cjwatson: I attempted it three times, each time making the partition slightly smaller, it just ignores it
[01:15] <cjwatson> pitti: trying it under ubiquity --debug would be good
[01:15] <pitti> cjwatson: will do, and file a bug
[01:15] <cjwatson> thanks, this is exactly the sort of thing I want to hear about
[01:15] <pitti> cjwatson: I guess you aren't yet interested in quarrells about the UI?
[01:16] <cjwatson> pitti: well, not of the form "it's ugly and hard to use", but things like "that text field should really be a spinbutton", sure
[01:17] <TheMuso> Is it the LANG or LANGUAGE environment variable that should be checked for determining the language used on the system?
[01:18] <_ion> Among others.
[01:19] <janimo> Mithrandir: thanks for the isos
[01:19] <Mithrandir> oh, np
[01:23] <pitti> TheMuso: LANG is the default value for unset LC_* (except LC_ALL); I didn't yet figure out what LANGUAGE is good for
[01:24] <TheMuso> pitti: Thanks, I thought LANG was it, but when I saw LANGUAGE referred to in some source code, I wasn't entirely sure.
[01:24] <Treenaks> pitti: Gnome has some stuff about LANGUAGE
[01:25] <pitti> TheMuso: one difference is that LANG specifies one locale, and LANGUAGE is a list of fallback (like de:en)
[01:25] <pitti> google might help here
[01:25] <TheMuso> ok
[01:25] <Treenaks> pitti: it's a gnu extension
[01:26] <janimo> it is used by gettext in preference of LC_ALL and LANG
[01:27] <pitti> janimo: ugh, it dominates $LC_ALL?
[01:27] <janimo> pitti according to info gettext it does
[01:27] <_ion> For example, my settings are: LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8, LC_MESSAGES=en_US.UTF-8, LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8, LANGUAGE=en_US:en, i.e. programs should use the Finnish locale settings for things such as day and month names, paper size etc. but speak English. They should also print numbers with a decimal dot instead of the stupid Finnish comma.
[01:27] <janimo> export LANGUAGE only and start mc
[01:27] <pitti> $ LANGUAGE=en locale still gives me all German locales
[01:28] <janimo> weird
[01:28] <siretart> pitti: I'm just curious but has the MainInclusionQueue stalled? there doesn't seem to be much activity there lately.
[01:28] <pitti> siretart: I approved a whole lot yesterday, and iwj approved something today
[01:28] <givr1> ogra: do you have some time to have a look at the fuse merge ? -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3808/ ;) . Thanks
[01:29] <cjwatson> LANGUAGE is only used to override LC_MESSAGES
[01:29] <cjwatson> see locale(7)
[01:29] <siretart> pitti: aah, okay, then just false impression on my side :)
[01:29] <pitti> siretart: but if you have something urgent in the queue, please IRC-poke me
[01:29] <cjwatson> it does dominate LC_ALL, but only if you're querying the LC_MESSAGES category
[01:30] <siretart> pitti: it's not that important, I'm rather curious if cryptsetup and ffmpeg are going to make it into ubuntu 7.04/main
[01:31] <pitti> siretart: I don't really dare to judge about ffmpeg, I'd appreciate a verdict from TB or so
[01:31] <TheMuso> heh I didn't expect this to turn into such a big discussion. Thanks folks, I'll see whether its worth changing the code to refer to LANG rather than LANGUAGE.
[01:31] <siretart> pitti: err, the TB told me to file a MIR and look if it was fine. So I cannot go to the TB before not having a successful MIR for ffmpeg
[01:31] <siretart> pitti: looks like there is a deadlock
[01:32] <ogra> givr1, the udev stuff looks nice now ... how about switching from modifying /etc/modules to installing a file into /etc/modprobe.d/fuse instead :)
[01:32] <pitti> siretart: ah, ok
[01:32] <pitti> siretart: so I'll ignore the patent stuff and just look at it from the technical side
[01:32] <siretart> pitti: that would be great! thanks
[01:32] <cjwatson> TheMuso: it's usually best to use setlocale() rather than checking environment variables directly
[01:33] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Ok thanks.
[01:33] <cjwatson> though there are special cases that that doesn't cover
[01:34] <siretart> pitti: regarding the patent stuff, I don't really see the legal difference between shipping ffmpeg in main, universe or multiverse. they are just other directories in the archive after all. However, I see that shipping it on pressed CDs makes a BIG difference. I still think that we are better off having it in main (if it fulfills the technical requirements, of course)
[01:35] <pitti> siretart: what was the primary reason for having it in main again? getting rid of the xine-lib package split?
[01:35] <cjwatson> TheMuso: do we want this to be usable on an installed system too?
[01:36] <siretart> pitti: reducing code duplication, and stop using the internal ffmpeg copy in the xine-lib sources
[01:36] <TheMuso> cjwatson: The scrip? I think there is debconf foo to handl configuration on a running system.
[01:36] <cjwatson> TheMuso: hmm, on reflection, ignore that, I think it might be a bad idea because it would override an existing /etc/brltty.conf
[01:36] <TheMuso> Well debconf writes out a config fie anyway.
[01:36] <siretart> pitti: so in the end, ffmpeg is already in main somehow, with the consent of the TB
[01:37] <cjwatson> debconf isn't used any more
[01:37] <TheMuso> ah ok
[01:37] <cjwatson> it's just a conffile now
[01:37] <TheMuso> I just remember seeing something to do with BrlTTY and debconf on the debian accessibility list.
[01:38] <cjwatson> which of course means that it's tricky for the installer to edit it ...
[01:38] <TheMuso> Yeah
[01:42] <Kagou> tkamppeter: can you have a look at on Bug #82187 ?
[01:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82187 in cupsys "[feisty]  USB printers not detected - user "lp" not in group "plugdev"" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82187
[01:46] <ogra> givr1, the udev stuff looks nice now ... how about switching from modifying /etc/modules to installing a file into /etc/modprobe.d/fuse instead :)
[01:46] <ogra> givre, ^^
[01:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, how about releasing the lock ?
[01:47] <givre> ogra: didn't really know how to do so
[01:47] <tepsipakki> mdz: re: your post about util-linux. I remember it being forked, since Adrian Bunk doesn't cooperate with anyone :I
[01:48] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, it wasn't so bad after all, just a miscalculated/misdisplayed free space; I filed a bug with the logs
[01:48] <tepsipakki> mdz: http://uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0612.2/0348.html
[01:52] <tkamppeter> kangu, this is due to the introduction of a new method to create device files when hot-plugging the device. The /dev/usblpX files are created with ownerships root.plugdev.
[01:53] <tkamppeter> So we must add the user as which CUPS is running (cupsys, lp? pitti?) to the group plugdev, probably in the post-install script of the cupsys package.
[01:55] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, the /dev/usblpXX are supposed to have group 'lp', that looks like an udev bug
[01:56] <pitti> tkamppeter: but we can put cupsys into plugdev, no big deal
[01:58] <Kagou> pitti: tkamppeter  ok so later i will test thi sworkaround to confirm
[01:59] <cjwatson> pitti: thanks, I'll try to trudge through the debug log :)
[02:00] <pitti> Kagou, tkamppeter: ah, I see
[02:00] <pitti> ./20-names.rules.dpkg-old:BUS=="usb", KERNEL=="lp[0-9] *",               NAME="usb%k"
[02:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, 40-permissions.rules first assigns plugdev to SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", and later SUBSYSTEM=="usb", KERNEL=="lp[0-9] *",   GROUP="lp"
[02:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: not sure why that fails
[02:02] <pitti> oh, and the first rule doesn't even match, it's only for block devices
[02:07] <Kagou> pitti: it's a typo ? : SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"   <->  SUBSYSTEM=="usb"
[02:07] <Kagou> with or without "S3
[02:07] <Kagou> with or without "S"
[02:18] <givre> ogra: you're back :)
[02:18] <givre> ogra: i understand that /etc/modprobe.d can be use to configure module, but i don't see how you can load stuff from here
[02:18] <ogra> yeah, flaky DSL heer today
[02:18] <ogra> givre, yeah, that was a bad idea .. lets keep the /etc/modules variant
[02:18] <pitti> Kagou: no, that's correct AFAIK; -S traverses parents, too
[02:19] <Kagou> oh, thanks pitti
[02:22] <givre> ogra: ok, great. So what the next step. I fill a bug and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to it, or you take care of everything...
[02:23] <ogra> what exactly is the problem with unmounting the fusectl fs ?
[02:23] <ogra> i will take care of everything ...
[02:23] <givre> no problem
[02:24] <ogra> why dont you just add
[02:24] <ogra> ACTION=="remove", KERNEL=="fuse", \
[02:24] <ogra> GROUP="fuse", RUN+="umount_fusectl"
[02:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, so it is a bug in udev?
[02:25] <givre> ok sorry, i though you saw my first message :
[02:25] <givre> givre: ogra: i use the udev rules to mount the fuse control filesystem, but i don't unmount it with the rule, because 1. it's impossible (AFAIK). 2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs
[02:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, somewhere in the rules
[02:25] <ogra> why should that be impossible ?
[02:25] <Keybuk> ogra: GROUP= is kinda irrelevant in a remove rule
[02:26] <ogra> i dont like the idea of having a mounted contol filesystem until we reboot
[02:26] <givre> because fusectl need the fuse module
[02:26] <ogra> Keybuk, ah, right
[02:26] <ogra> we still should run umount fusectl to properly clean up
[02:27] <givre> so we can't unload fuse if fusctl is still mounted
[02:27] <givre>  2. It's done anyway by /etc/init.d/umountfs
[02:27] <ogra> right, but you have it hanging around until you shut down ...
[02:29] <givre> ogra: no it's unmounted with all local filsystem
[02:29] <ogra> on shutdown
[02:29] <givre> right
[02:30] <givre> i checked that yesterday
[02:31] <ogra> oh wait, you cant unload at all ...
[02:31] <ogra> hmm
[02:31] <givre> ogra: no
[02:31] <givre> until fusctl is not unmount, you can't
[02:31] <ogra> right
[02:35] <fabbione> Mithrandir: could you be so kind to add herd-4 milestone to LP so i can actually target bugs? thanks
[02:37] <Mithrandir> fabbione: herd-3 isn't officially released yet, I'll get to it on my checklist.
[02:37] <fabbione> Mithrandir: cool thanks
[02:43] <^robertj> howdy all. Over the weekend I decided to mv xorg.conf and was surprised by how well everything worked without it. Only question is, how does it choose the default resolution. I've got a 1650x01050 display but it pulled out a 1400xsomething resolution. I noticed that this was also the same resolution suggested by Windows before I installed the NVidia driver, so that made me curious.
[02:43] <Mithrandir> ^robertj: it asks you display
[02:43] <Mithrandir> your, even
[02:44] <^robertj> Mithrandir: via DDC?
[02:44] <Mithrandir> ^robertj: yes.
[02:44] <^robertj> why would it report back the "wrong" resolution?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> maybe your monitor lies or is confused, or maybe the driver doesn't know what resolution your card supports.
[02:45] <^robertj> Mithrandir: I think the first would be more likely, as 1400xsomethign seems like a bad "safe" resolution when in doubt
[02:46] <Ng> ^robertj: the X server log will most likely list in extraordinary detail which modes it got from the monitor and why it rejected any of them
[02:47] <^robertj> I'll look into that tonight, worked fine with my old conf, which came from, err, I don't remember.
[02:50] <Treenaks> \o/
[02:50] <Kagou> ^robertj: may be you have Bug #76054 ?!
[02:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76054 in xorg "Installer fails to detect monitor correctly" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76054
[02:50] <^robertj> but err, kudos to yall and the upstream for the fact that something showed up at all without the config file :)
[02:52] <^robertj> Kagou: doesn't seem to fit, but thanks.
[03:02] <Kano> Mithrandir: is there a logic  in the MD5SUM file? why is -b option not used for md5sum, so i always get a warning with cfv
[03:03] <Kano> warning: file(s) tested in textmode
[03:03] <Mithrandir> Kano: huh?
[03:03] <Kano> -b adds a * in front of the name, no space
[03:04] <Kano> sed -ri 's/  / */' MD5SUMS
[03:04] <Kano> then the wanning is away
[03:04] <Kano> btw
[03:04] <Mithrandir> why would we?
[03:04] <Kano> -b option add that
[03:04] <Kano> -b is for binary md5sum as flag
[03:05] <Kano>        -b, --binary
[03:05] <Kano>               read in binary mode
[03:05] <Mithrandir> that's not relevant on unix.
[03:05] <Kano> i know,but tools like cfv find it as warning
[03:05] <Mithrandir> then don't use those tools.
[03:05] <Mithrandir> use md5sum to check.
[03:05] <Kano> i like cfv
[03:06] <Mithrandir> *shrug*
[03:07] <ogra> givre, /etc/modprobe.d/fuse http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3821/
[03:09] <givre> ogra: wha great idea :)
[03:09] <ogra> drop udev and lets just take that fine
[03:10] <ogra> *file
[03:10] <ogra> saves the whole initscript stuff and is dynamic
[03:10] <crimsun> ogra: hi, do you plan to package libflashsupport from revolutionlinux's svn?
[03:10] <ogra> crimsun, it was in NEW already ...
[03:10] <ogra> but there were license issues iird
[03:11] <ogra> *iirc
[03:11] <crimsun> ogra: ok, thanks
[03:11] <ogra> I've rejected your libflashsupport upload.  It build-depends on
[03:11] <ogra> libssl-dev and libpulse-dev (which while being LGPL uses GPL-ed libs,
[03:11] <ogra> so effectively is GPL).  The OpenSSL licence and the GPL are
[03:11] <ogra> incompatible.  Please resolve this and upload again.
[03:19] <Keybuk> lamont: ?
[03:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: congrats to you too. :-)
[03:19] <mjg59> Laser_away: Mm?
[03:19] <mjg59> Erm.
[03:19] <mjg59> lamont: ?
[03:20] <cjwatson> Kano: I hadn't been aware that that option was interesting. I've made it use md5sum -b now, thanks; though if it causes problems for mirrors etc. I may well back that change out again.
[03:20] <lamont> expire, even
[03:26] <elkbuntu> ogra, if you have a moment, please see pm
[03:26] <Mithrandir> doko: is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-central/+bug/56779 still a problem?
[03:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56779 in python-central "Error during Dapper-->Edgy update, problem removing python2.3" [High,In progress]
[03:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: that means I can do unlimited archive crack again, right? publisher is back to auto?
[03:27] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes and no, not yet.  (I'll do it soonish, but something has locked the distrorelease table so we can't flip feisty back to development)
[03:27] <pitti> ok, thanks
[03:27] <Mithrandir> but just go ahead with your shiny.
[03:28] <heno> Mithrandir: Shall I fix release all the tracker bugs or will you run your script?
[03:28] <Mithrandir> heno: I can do it.
[03:29] <heno> Mithrandir: new tracker bugs for the actual Herd 3 images would be sweet too
[03:29] <Mithrandir> heno: I need a list of test cases, then.
[03:30] <heno> Oh, so not just one per image as we have done?
[03:30] <heno> You're right, I guess that's what we agreed
[03:30] <Mithrandir> iirc, it was one per test, but if you just want what we have, that's easy.
[03:33] <heno> Mithrandir: No, I'll email you a list. It will stay up for 2-3 weeks so we might as well try to encourage more varied testing
[03:33] <Mithrandir> heno: ok
[03:34] <mdz> lamont: people get mail about upcoming expiry now? neat
[03:35] <lamont> mdz: yeah.  and if it actually expires, then the first mail promises them another mail telling them that it happened.
[03:38] <bddebian> Heya
[03:40] <ogra> crimsun, hmm, looking at alsa-plugins, it seems we never installed the jack plugin (the corresponding lines in rules are commented) ...
[03:42] <crimsun> ogra: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9952 2006-11-22 20:05 /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so
[03:43] <ogra>         dh_install
[03:43] <ogra>         #install $(INSTALL_UAG) jack/.libs/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so \
[03:43] <ogra>         #       debian/libasound2-plugins/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.2.0.0
[03:43] <ogra>         #ln -s libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.2.0.0 \
[03:43] <ogra>         #       debian/libasound2-plugins/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_jack.so
[03:43] <ogra>         dh_installdocs
[03:43] <ogra> ...
[03:43] <ogra> weird
[03:46] <crimsun> ogra: that's old; it no longer uses libasound_module_pcm_jack.so.2.0.0.
[03:46] <crimsun> hence the commenting in debian/rules
[03:46] <ogra> ah
[03:46] <ogra> k
[03:46] <ogra> anyway, jack is disabled now in alsa-plugins
[03:47] <crimsun> rockin'
[03:47] <ogra> now the MIR and ltsp sound is done ... even though for feisty+1 i need to find a way for dynamically switching input sources on the client
[03:49] <crimsun> pavucontrol doesn't cut it?
[03:51] <dholbach> yooohoooo, herd3!!!
[03:51] <ogra_> grmbl
[03:54] <ogra_> crimsun, i need something that reacts on pluggin in a usb headset and switches the source underneath the pulse server ... i cant interact with the client so it must happen automatically
[03:54] <ogra_> for hal and dbus there is no space on a thin client
[03:54] <crimsun> hmm.
[03:54] <crimsun> I know someone hacked up a udev rule to do that via a shell script, but it's ... ugly.
[03:55] <ogra_> yeah
[03:55] <ogra_> but likely the only way
[03:55] <ogra_> it still needs to work on 32MB clients with network swap
[03:55] <ogra_> so scripts or C  ... or very tiny python scripts ...
[03:56] <Mithrandir> mjg59: hmm, I think liferea might have become slower, yes.  It's sometimes just hanging or lagging.
[03:58] <givre> ogra_: finaly : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3830/
[03:59] <givre> ogra_: works great. Thanks :)
[04:00] <ogra_> looks nice as well :)
[04:00] <ogra_> can you put the full package anywhere so i can grab it for upload ?
[04:09] <ogra_> givr1, can you put it somewhere so i can grab and upload it ?
[04:10] <givr1> ogra_: (in case you didn't get it, i have been disconnected) : http://flomertens.keo.in/merge/
[04:10] <givr1> sorry ;)
[04:10] <ogra_> thanks a lot !!!
[04:10] <ogra_> :))
[04:11] <Keybuk> pitti: errrr.... where are my core dumps?
[04:11] <givr1> ogra_: ok, i have to go to work. Thanks !
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: look under the sofa?
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: -v ?
[04:11] <Keybuk> pitti: debugging a program, it core dumps -- yet there's no core dump in the working directory
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: '/etc/init.d/apport stop' then
[04:12] <Keybuk> pitti: I did that, and that's what brought my core dumps back
[04:12] <pitti> Keybuk: core_pattern is a pipe to apport if apport is running
[04:12] <Keybuk> which is why I'm blaming you
[04:12] <Keybuk> it shouldn't prevent ordinary core dump generation
[04:12] <pitti> that's Linux upstream's prefered way of doing this...
[04:12] <Keybuk> especially not in people's home directories
[04:12] <Keybuk> otherwise it makes ubuntu pretty useless as a development platform
[04:13] <Keybuk> is there nothing apport can do to signal to the kernel to dump core as it used to?
[04:13] <pitti> Keybuk: apport could write the core dump on its own if we wanted, but core_pattern basically defines the name
[04:14] <pitti> we might need to rethink the current kernel patch then
[04:14] <Keybuk> yes ...
[04:14] <Keybuk> right now I'd rather we shipped with this disabled than in its current form
[04:14] <Keybuk> it's going to confuse and annoy a *lot* of developers
[04:18] <Robot101> Keybuk: what happens when your random app crashes and apport catches it too?
[04:18] <pitti> Robot101: not much, non-packaged apps are ignored by apport
[04:18] <Robot101> ok, so could it write the core dump as usual in those cases?
[04:19] <pitti> Robot101: that would certainly be doable if we want that
[04:19] <Keybuk> right, there should be some way to do that
[04:19] <Keybuk> e.g. if the pipe command exits non-zero, the kernel should do the default behaviour
[04:19] <Robot101> (ulimit permitting, I guess)
[04:19] <pitti> the kernel would need to pass the process' ulimit -c to apport, but that's no problem
[04:20] <Keybuk> that'd work too
[04:20] <pitti> Keybuk: doesn't work in that generality, because usually core_pattern specifies the filename
[04:20] <pitti> we can default to core.<pid>, though
[04:20] <Keybuk> "core" is the default in Linux, no?
[04:21] <pitti> right, core_uses_pid is off by default
[04:21] <Robot101> what about adding core_pipe or something?
[04:23] <pitti> Robot101: at some point you need to decide whether to pipe or to write a file
[04:23] <pitti> Robot101: I think the general idea of core_pattern is sane
[04:23] <pitti> and normal users don't want their fs cluttered with core dumps
[04:24] <Keybuk> I agree you don't want core dumps for packaged apps
[04:24] <pitti> I like the 'write core file for unpackaged programs if ulimit -c permits' approach best so far
[04:41] <maswan> BenC: btw, I just checked feisty, and kernel-wise systemtap works great. just needs a newer systemtap than packaged. :)
[04:42] <elmo> maswan: really?  sweet
[04:44] <crimsun> maswan: will 0.0.20070113-1 (in sid) suffice?
[04:45] <crimsun> n/m, just read 82817
[04:47] <maswan> crimsun: yeah
[04:47] <maswan> elmo: yup, I just had to rebuild the systemtap stuff from sid, rename the vmlinux from linux-image-debug (I guess systemtap could be taught to search for it in the right place too though)
[04:47] <maswan> then at least the examples run fine. :)
[04:48] <maswan> but the important thing is that I don't have to build a custom kernel for it
[04:50] <glatzor> Riddell: hi, you haven't added a script to call software-properties-qt from the command line.
[04:51] <glatzor> Riddell: By the way thanks for fixing my awkward English grammar :)
[04:51] <glatzor> Riddell: don't you need one? or should I add one?
[04:58] <Riddell> glatzor: hang on
[05:00] <Riddell> glatzor: added, along with the start of the mirror dialgue
[05:00] <Riddell> glatzor: might take a while to get to the launchpad http archive, I'm not sure
[05:18] <dholbach> TheMuso: new lsr release for you :-)
[05:27] <pitti> hmm, publisher still seems to be inactive
[05:29] <pitti> there, sync queue down from 75 to 3 bugs
[05:30] <bddebian> w00t, thx pitti
[05:33] <Mithrandir> cypher1|away: please turn off public away.
[05:39] <pitti> Mithrandir, cjwatson: would you object if I unsubscribed ubuntu-archive from all SRU bugs, so that ~ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs actually becomes readable again?
[05:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: I find ~u-a/+ss quite ok already but yeah, I guess we can track them as soon as they show up in the queue
[05:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's just that most of ubuntu-sru/+subscribedbugs are bugs we cannot process right now (I processed all that can be)
[05:41] <pitti> OTOH, ubuntu-archive bugs can (in general) be processed any time
[05:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: 'k
[05:42] <bddebian> *cough* NEW *cough* :-)
[05:43] <Mithrandir> bddebian: NEW doesn't show up in bug listings.
[05:43] <fabbione> seb128: bug #82871 is all your
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82871 in gnome-app-install "Bomb appears after rebooting from Feisty herd 3 alternate" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82871
[05:44] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, let's see what cjwatson's opinion is
[05:44] <bddebian> Mithrandir: I'm just being a smart alec, ignore me.  You guys do great stuff! :)
[05:44] <seb128> fabbione: why?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> bddebian: so we have less time to process new and fix bug.  Useful.
[05:44] <seb128> fabbione: mvo is upstream for that software, don't you think he would be a better idea to have him look at the problem?
[05:44] <fabbione> seb128: oh is he? cool
[05:44] <fabbione> seb128: i though it was some random gnome crap :P
[05:45] <seb128> gnome-app-install ... that's the add/remove program he wrote for Ubuntu
[05:45] <seb128> and that bug report is useless
[05:45] <seb128> attaching the crash file would be useful
[05:45] <fabbione> seb128: yeah i didn't know about mvo being upstream... and yes i already told Marc about needinfo :)
[05:46] <seb128> the bomb indicates there is a crash file to /var/crash
[05:46] <seb128> ok
[05:46] <pitti> seb128: the crash file is attached (several times)
[05:46] <pitti> there was a nice python backtrace
[05:47] <seb128> pitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/82871 ?
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82871 in gnome-app-install "Bomb appears after rebooting from Feisty herd 3 alternate" [High,Confirmed]
[05:47] <heno> sfllaw: can you look at this page and fill in some blanks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods ?
[05:47] <fabbione> sfllaw: can you please give me time to process bugs before you close reject them? there is no need to file another one
[05:47] <seb128> pitti: my browser doesn't list any attachment, weird
[05:47] <heno> and possibly expand some of them too
[05:47] <fabbione> pitti: mine neither...
[05:47] <pitti> seb128: hm, doesn't sound like the but I meant, it seems that one is a dup
[05:47] <fabbione> seb128: it's pitti's suppah powah
[05:48] <seb128> pitti: likely, there is not enough information to say though ;)
[05:48] <pitti> seb128: yup, bug 80589
[05:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80589 in gnome-app-install "daily live comes with crash report - pre-populated!" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80589
[05:48] <pitti> that's the good one
[05:48] <seb128> ok
[05:48] <seb128> thank you for the pointer ;)
[05:48] <pitti> de rien
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: that's the bug that is mentioned a hundred times in the iso testing bugs, btw
[05:49] <seb128> ok
[05:50] <fabbione> pitti: our is from alternate install.. i assume that's the same in this case
[05:50] <pitti> fabbione: yup
[05:51] <cjwatson> pitti: ok, but if you do, change StableReleaseUpdates to match
[05:52] <pitti> cjwatson: of course; I'm just interested in the opinions so far
[05:52] <pitti> and what the other admins would prefer
[05:52] <fabbione> dholbach: do you feel comfy to fix bug #82874 ? it's usually a one line change in the pci.id file.. should be very easy
[05:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82874 in discover-data "Graphic controller not detected properly on Dimension 9150 for Feisty herd 3" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82874
[05:52] <cjwatson> pitti: if those people who are actually processing SRUs are monitoring ~ubuntu-sru/+subscribedbugs, then it's OK
[05:53] <dholbach> fabbione: why don't you do it? you know more about that than I do...
[05:53] <pitti> cjwatson: that would be Mithrandir and me, according to new standards; and yes, due to team membership I'm monitoring
[06:00] <poningru> heno: ping
[06:00] <heno> poningru: hi
[06:01] <poningru> heno: quick question were you the one that moved the herd3 to ubuntu.com?
[06:01] <poningru> can i ask for a small favor?
[06:01] <heno> poningru: yes, and probably yes
[06:01] <pitti> yay, my first source NEW
[06:01] <poningru> can you upload the latest version of herd3 from the wiki?
[06:01] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd3?action=recall&rev=31
[06:02] <poningru> some guy had removed the ekiga
[06:02] <heno> poningru: ok, are you maintaining these pages these days?
[06:02] <poningru> heno: err sure kinda
[06:03] <poningru> heno: actually thats another thing is there anyway for us to lock these pages down?
[06:03] <poningru> or something
[06:03] <heno> I ask because we need to speak with the webmaster about a more robust process for this move
[06:03] <poningru> oh yes please
[06:03] <heno> sec
[06:03] <poningru> heno: convo >> #ubuntu-marketing ?
[06:05] <poningru> heno: actually there were a few edits that I would like to get in there before you actually move it is that ok?
[06:05] <heno> poningru: can you join #ubuntu-matt
[06:06] <heno> ?
[06:10] <sfllaw> seb128: Bug 60277 is ready for edgy-updates
[06:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60277 in nautilus "Windows Network entries use a text icon instead of a computer one" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60277
[06:10] <seb128> sfllaw: thank you
[06:13] <^robertj> where should email regarding minor layout issues with ubuntu.com go?
[06:14] <Seveas> ^robertj, you can file them as bug on http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
[06:15] <^robertj> ah silly me
[06:15] <cjwatson> (or ubuntu-cdimage if it's cdimage.u.c or releases.u.c)
[06:20] <seb128> sfllaw: could you look at bug #76301 as well? That would be easier to accept both proposed updates together
[06:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76301 in gnome-vfs2 "patch from CVS to fix crash triggered when closing ekiga by example" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76301
[06:21] <derjoerg> hi everybody
[06:24] <alex-weej> is the ubuntu web open source?
[06:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: do we generally require that debian/copyright has the short standard GPL blurb? bzr-pqm in NEW only has a pointer to /usr/share/common-licenses, and that looks suspicious to me
[06:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: no.
[06:32] <Burgwork> alex-weej: in what sense?
[06:32] <alex-weej> can i make it look better?
[06:32] <Burgwork> you are talking about ubuntu.com?
[06:32] <alex-weej> and submit a patch
[06:32] <alex-weej> aha
[06:32] <Burgwork> right, currently ubuntu.com runs on a modified moin engine
[06:32] <derjoerg> does anybody now how to build vanilla kernel <IP_ADDRESS> with the ubuntu specific patches?
[06:33] <Burgwork> it is being moved to a joomla-based system
[06:33] <Burgwork> however, there is no timeframe on that
[06:35] <twb> Mithrandir: hey, does feisty's casper do netbooting yet?
[06:45] <pitti> bddebian: here?
[06:45] <bddebian> Yessir, what'd I break now?
[06:45] <pitti> bddebian: nothing yet :)
[06:45] <pitti> bddebian: just reviewing libticables
[06:45] <bddebian> Ah, OK
[06:45] <pitti> bddebian: that has an internal copy of gettext
[06:45] <pitti> bddebian: does the package actually configure to use glibc's one?
[06:46] <pitti> (I guess the internal copy is for the windows build)
[06:46] <bddebian> Aye
[06:47] <pitti> bddebian: ok, then I already ran out of excuses to reject it :)
[06:47] <bddebian> Heh
[06:50] <bddebian> Kickin'.  Libticonv and I can start on tilp2 :-(  Thx pitti
[06:55] <pitti> argh, when doing 'view file | view -' it's time for weekend...
[06:55] <ogra_> doubleview :)
[06:58] <pitti> argh, ubuntu-desktop now depends on network-manager-gnome
[06:58] <ogra_> wasnt that intended ?
[06:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, that's intentional
[06:59] <ogra_> just switch to edubuntu :)
[06:59] <seb128> pitti: why "argh"?
[07:06] <keescook> mornin' folks
[07:07] <dholbach> heya keescook
[07:07] <pitti> well, it's fairly useless for desktops
[07:07] <pitti> mvo: hmm, if I purge network-manager from my system, shouldn't that auto-remove dhcdbd and friends (libs?) as well?
[07:07] <keescook> hiya dholbach
[07:07] <keescook> today bdmurray has joined me at the "east side" portland office.  :)
[07:07] <dholbach> yooohooo :)
[07:07] <dholbach> go Ubuntu Portland Office :-)
[07:07] <pitti> hey keescook
[07:08] <keescook> hiya pitti :)
[07:08] <mvo> pitti: yes, let me check
[07:10] <bddebian> Hey, I think you need a Philly office! :)
[07:23] <pitti> mvo: still here?
[07:25] <pitti> mvo: I rejected synaptic/a-i-d-commercial, see bug 81428
[07:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81428 in app-install-data-commercial "sugarcrm needs update of app-install-data-commercial and a synaptic fix" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81428
[07:26] <glatzor> Riddell: do you plan to make the kde port depend on KDE?
[07:27] <glatzor> Riddell: or will it be qt only in the future?
[07:28] <mvo> pitti: ok, I check
[07:28] <mvo> pitti: argh, right
[07:30] <Lure> pitti: thanks for sru accept
[07:32] <pitti> mvo: and please don't forget correct -v (I didn't check the .changes)
[07:32] <mvo> pitti: I had it in the initial upload, I almost forgot it now :)
[07:35] <bddebian> doko: Do you know much about kimwitu++ or did you just upload it last to fix it?
[07:37] <doko> bddebian: the latter
[07:37] <bddebian> Damn, OK, thx
[07:39] <pitti> mvo: oh, synaptic is a Debian native package?
[07:40] <mvo> pitti: yes
[07:40] <pitti> mvo: synaptic accepted, waiting for a-i-d
[07:40] <mvo> pitti: rock! thanks
[07:42] <GateWar> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#introduction
[07:46] <pitti> mvo: hm, I need to leave nowish; maybe you can ask Mithrandir or cjwatson to accept the a-i-d upload?
[07:46] <Riddell> glatzor: no immediate plans for that
[07:47] <dholbach> ogra_: new genius release
[07:47] <mvo> pitti: the upload should already be available :/ but no problem, I will ask them for it!
[07:47] <ogra_> genuius ?
[07:47] <Riddell> glatzor: feel free to rename the file if you want, but my rationale is that margionally more people will recognise KDE than qt
[07:47] <mvo> pitti: thanks a lot for the work!
[07:47] <glatzor> Riddell: I was just wondering why it was named qt
[07:47] <ogra_> dholbach, aaah, genius
[07:48] <dholbach> :)
[07:48] <glatzor> Riddell: I hope that most people using KDE don't have to install it manually :)
[07:48] <mvo> # ldconfig
[07:48] <mvo> Segmentation fault
[07:48] <mvo>  ^--- that sounds serious :)
[07:49] <pitti> mvo: checkign queue again...
[07:49] <pitti> mvo: nope, nothing there
[07:50] <Riddell> glatzor: how come DialogMirror is copyright FSF-E?
[07:52] <mvo> pitti: oh, it took a bit until I got the mail. but no worries, I will pester cjwatson or Mithrandir about the app-install-data-commercial upload
[07:52] <pitti> mvo: ok, we just decided for watching a movie, so I'll still be around a bit (with some interruptions) :)
[07:52] <mvo> pitti: haha, ok
[07:52] <pitti> mvo: ah, it's there now; twice! o_O
[07:53] <mvo> heh :) I uploaded it once more just to be sure
[07:53] <pina> any processor geeks
[07:53] <pina> whats the amd64 k2 like
[07:54] <pitti> mvo: I reject the duplicate upload, don't be scared; I accepted the other one
[07:54] <mvo> :)
[07:54] <Mithrandir> mvo: please don't upload multiple times, it creates extra work for the admins.
[07:55] <pitti> ok, have a nice weekend everyone!
[07:55] <Mithrandir> see you, pitti
[07:56] <glatzor> Riddell: completely written by me :) but we can change this without any problem
[07:58] <dholbach> good night everybody - have a nice WE!
[07:58] <bddebian> You too dholbach
[07:58] <dholbach> thanks bddebian
[07:58] <ogra_> night dholbach
[07:58] <dholbach> bye ogra_
[07:59] <mvo> bye dholbach!
[07:59] <mvo> have a great WE!
[08:00] <dholbach> thanks
[08:09] <juliux> hi, is it a knowen problem that the herd3 installer is not working on core duo?
[08:10] <cjwatson> juliux: no, bug#?
[08:10] <cjwatson> and which installer?
[08:11] <juliux> cjwatson, i try to find it i report it allready for herd3
[08:11] <juliux> herd2
[08:11] <cjwatson> don't necessarily assume that it's the same bug
[08:11] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure I fixed *one* issue affecting core duos from herd2
[08:12] <juliux> hey no it is working
[08:12] <juliux> after 3-4min
[08:12] <cjwatson> oh, that's in the release announcement, which you should read
[08:12] <juliux> but i get always a kernel not found
[08:12] <cjwatson> at hardware detection?
[08:12] <juliux> and now it is workind
[08:12] <cjwatson> yes, see the release announcement
[08:13] <juliux> ok
[08:13] <cjwatson> that's not actually "kernel not found", it's "kernel: not found", i.e. a message "not found" emitted by the kernel
[08:13] <cjwatson> the message could do with being a touch more verbose ...
[08:13] <cjwatson> anyway, workaround is hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false if you don't need PCMCIA
[08:14] <juliux> i will test it
[08:17] <juliux> cjwatson, thxs it's working
[08:18] <cjwatson> excellent
[08:18] <juliux> i was wondering because on my athlon xp it work's without this workaround
[08:18] <bddebian> Anyone know how I fix something like this appropriately?  "sh compile-foo.sh"  then compile-foo.sh has 'sh libtool ...' which fails
[08:20] <bddebian> sh compile-gtk2im.sh
[08:20] <bddebian> /bin/sh: Can't open libtool
[08:21] <davmor2> heno: are you there
[08:21] <cjwatson> juliux: your athlon xp probably happens to have the i82365 pcmcia chipset for some reason
[08:21] <bddebian> I know I can change 'sh libtool ...' to 'sh /usr/bin/libtool ..' and it will work but it seems like a hack
[08:21] <cjwatson> juliux: if that's not present, a kernel bug means that we get into a udev/modprobe loop
[08:21] <juliux> cjwatson, my core duo is also a desktop pc
[08:21] <heno> davmor2: hi
[08:21] <cjwatson> juliux: yeah, I expected that
[08:21] <juliux> cjwatson, i will test it also on my notebook;)
[08:22] <cjwatson> juliux: anyway, point is the processor isn't the relevant thing in this case
[08:22] <davmor2> heno: discovered a usability flaw with herd 3 listed on the testing forum
[08:22] <juliux> cjwatson, i never stop learning
[08:23] <davmor2> heno:Basically you get two icon for networking on a laptop which will be confusing as hell for a new user.
[08:24] <heno> davmor2: yes, I think network-monitor is meant to be removed
[08:24] <davmor2> heno: should it be reported as a bug though?
[08:24] <heno> davmor2: if it's still there on wednesday file a bug in Malone
[08:25] <heno> I think there is one already
[08:25] <Mithrandir> yes, there is.
[08:25] <cjwatson> davmor2: known, was discussed here earlier
[08:25] <davmor2> okay cool
[08:25] <heno> davmor2: just curious did you try a search in Malone
[08:26] <heno> (because that still needs some work)
[08:26] <heno> and we should probably document that better as well
[08:26] <siretart> cjwatson: are there plans to readd raid and lvm support to the livecd?
[08:26] <heno> when you see a new bug appear, have a look at bugs filed ijn the past two days
[08:27] <heno> ... or something
[08:27] <cjwatson> siretart: it's never supported those
[08:27] <cjwatson> siretart: I do plan to build that on top of the new partitioner eventually, though
[08:27] <siretart> cjwatson: the dapper live cd does both out of the box, and works fine!
[08:27] <bddebian> grr
[08:27] <pina> what is a .core file ? core dump?
[08:27] <Nafallo> cjwatson: that would rock :-)
[08:27] <pina> its created in the home dir i know but it's created when a program crashes?
[08:27] <Mithrandir> siretart: that's by accident rather than by design.
[08:27] <davmor2> heno:No but only because I wasn't sure whether to report it as a bug.  Yo are right though the search needs some help.  I often fill out a new report because the original is under something completely different.
[08:28] <cjwatson> siretart: only because mdadm and lvmwhatsit happened to be in the dapper standard seed
[08:28] <cjwatson> Nafallo: feel free to help out with the new partitioner ...
[08:28] <sfllaw> seb128: SRU for bug 76301 is approved.
[08:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76301 in gnome-vfs2 "patch from CVS to fix crash triggered when closing ekiga by example" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76301
[08:28] <siretart> Mithrandir: It's a really helpful accident, since it allows me to actually repair my system and restore my lvm metadata, which is on a md raid
[08:29] <Nafallo> cjwatson: might be better for our users if I don't really :-P
[08:29] <siretart> cjwatson: what's the problem with adding mdadm and lvm2 back to the live seed?
[08:29] <Mithrandir> siretart: just install them on the live cd when you want to recover stuff, then?
[08:30] <siretart> Mithrandir: I tried that, but for some reason, it didn't get my volume group started
[08:30] <heno> sfllaw: re-ping - Can you look at this and fill in some blanks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods ?
[08:30] <siretart> I think I already filed a lp bug about that.. lemme search
[08:30] <cjwatson> siretart: at the moment, ubiquity will fail if you have active MDs or VGs
[08:30] <cjwatson> well, LVs
[08:31] <davmor2> I think that people with some technical proficiency tend to select the exact package the bug affects where as users just go this is broken.  With apport now you get a nice bug-report but quite often people just leave it to the program.
[08:31] <cjwatson> siretart: this is a bug, but I don't overly want to trigger it deliberately until I have time to add full support to ubiquity
[08:32] <siretart> cjwatson: aah, I see. would you accept a patch to ubuiqity which searches for active vg, deactivates lvm and continues with it?
[08:32] <cjwatson> siretart: sure
[08:32] <cjwatson> siretart: on the understanding that it will be obsoleted in time
[08:32] <sfllaw> heno: Ah, missed that.  Sorry.  Will do.
[08:32] <heno> cool, thanks
[08:33] <cjwatson> well, when I say "will fail", I mean "I got bug reports about it in the dapper cycle", but I haven't knowingly fixed it
[08:33] <siretart> cjwatson: if we can have mdadm and lvm2 back in the live seed, sure!
[08:33] <cjwatson> siretart: I dunno. If installing them after boot doesn't work for you, then there's something else wrong
[08:34] <cjwatson> you might have to run some of the usual tools, but ...
[08:34] <siretart> I see, I'll retry with herd3 with manually installing them then
[08:35] <cjwatson> the problem with adding them back is that I'm pretty sure they'd be first against the wall as soon as there's any size pressure
[08:35] <cjwatson> which there will be
[08:35] <cjwatson> if the installer supported LVM and RAID, there would be a stronger case for having them there
[08:36] <siretart> hm.. ic
[09:32] <somerville32> Mithrandir, ping
[09:32] <Mithrandir> somerville32: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[09:33] <somerville32> Mithrandir, Is there any reason Xubuntu Herd 3 hasn't been released yet? :)
[09:36] <bddebian> hehe kylem
[09:36] <Adri2000> somerville32: gpocentek said he didn't have time to test it, and then I don't know what happened
[09:37] <somerville32> Jani seems to think it is ok to release them (I assume she tested them)
[09:37] <somerville32> I'll do some more poking to make sure.
[09:38] <phanatic> somerville32: she!?
[09:39] <somerville32> phanatic, he, she... it's all the same on the internet ;]
[09:40] <phanatic> somerville32: i've met him is person, so i do care ;)
[09:40] <somerville32> haha
[09:40] <somerville32> We all know he is a guy but my brain sees "Jani" and thinks female
[09:41] <_ion> Well, Jani is *obviously* a male name. ;-)
[09:41] <kylem> somerville32 is just mentally replacing "jani" with "janeway"
[09:42] <somerville32> hehe
[09:42] <zul> im mentally undressing janeway
[09:43] <phanatic> lol
[09:44] <kylem> really didn't need to know that, zul.
[09:44] <zul> yeah i probably should have kept that to msyelf
[09:51] <joejaxx> hello _TomB
[11:03] <hackeron> hi, I'm trying to install ubuntu, but it seems there's a version mismatch between the available version of nvidia-kernel-source (1.0.8774) and nvidia-glx (1.0.8776) - is this a known issue?
[11:06] <hackeron> just did another apt-get update, looks like it's fixed already :)
[11:07] <Riddell> glatzor: how's the packaging getting on?
[11:07] <Riddell> glatzor: I think I'm about done
[11:08] <somerville32> Riddell: Do you think you could test the Xubuntu PPC build for us again for Herd 2, please? : )
[11:08] <Riddell> herd 2?  that's obsolete
[11:08] <maxamillion> anyone know who maintains the libapache2-mod-python package?
[11:08] <somerville32> *Herd 3
[11:08] <glatzor> Riddell: fine. nearly done. I just perfrom a final test
[11:09] <Riddell> glatzor: I just pushed some more changes
[11:09] <Riddell> that's me done with it until after
[11:09] <Riddell> feature freeze
[11:09] <Riddell> somerville32: URL?
[11:09] <somerville32> Riddell: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[11:10] <glatzor> Riddell: ok. do you want to have a dist-upgrader-kde package? or should we just skip the kde frontend in the update-manager bianry packages
[11:10] <somerville32> Riddell: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
[11:11] <somerville32> Riddell, desktop and alternative ISOs respectively
[11:11] <BrendanM> Hello, somebody told me you could request Ubuntu rebuilds of software here. Could somebody point me in the direction to do that?
[11:11] <Riddell> glatzor: is there a dist-upgrader package for gnome?
[11:11] <BrendanM> I found a Debian package but it's not working right on my system.
[11:13] <Riddell> BrendanM: if there's a source package ask in #ubuntu-motu for someone to consider it for upload
[11:17] <BrendanM> ok
[11:19] <glatzor> Riddell: no. it is part of update-manager. If there is a complex dependency situation the update will be performed by dist-upgrader
[11:20] <Riddell> glatzor: oh, not needed there I think
[11:25] <glatzor> Riddell: I think so too. So I will just not provide binary packages for the KDE view
[11:31] <twb> Mithrandir: hey, does feisty's casper do netbooting yet?
[11:31] <Riddell> glatzor: I pushed another change (making it use datadir)
[11:32] <cbx33> Can i ask guys, what is this channel for discussing specifically?
[11:32] <cbx33> just dev of Ubuntu and not apps specific to ubuntu?
[11:32] <glatzor> Riddell: I already fixed this
[11:34] <glatzor> Riddell: to test you need both of these two: http://bzr.glatzor.de/python-apt/sebi and http://bzr.glatzor.de/software-properties/sebi
[11:35] <Riddell> glatzor: has python-apt updated today?
[11:35] <glatzor> Riddell: it was a broken one.
[11:36] <geser> keescook: hi, would you sponsor an upload of gnupg2 again? I've packages ready for the new upstream release (2.0.2)
[11:37] <keescook> geser: cool, sure.  where can I find it?
[11:37] <geser> keescook: http://members.ping.de/~mb/gnupg2/
[11:39] <keescook> geser: any particular changes to the packaging or is it just an upstream release bump?
[11:42] <geser> primary only the new upstream version, I've done only 3 small fixes
[11:43] <keescook> okay, cool.  I'll get to it in a bit.  thanks for getting it packaged!
[11:43] <geser> all stated in the new changelog entry
[11:47] <tepsipakki> oh crud, xscreensaver was in main
[11:48] <tepsipakki> tried to upload it :)
[11:49] <Riddell> glatzor: works perfectly
[11:49] <glatzor> Riddell: fine.
[11:50] <Riddell> glatzor: so... shall we upload to ubuntu?
[11:50] <glatzor> which files should I add to the POTFILES.in? can gettext deal with ui files?
[11:50] <Riddell> no it can't
[11:50] <Riddell> but all the strings should be the same as the GTK UI
[11:50] <glatzor> Riddell: oh, I would like to fix some issues before.
[11:50] <Riddell> ok :)
[11:52] <Riddell> glatzor: just add the four .py files
[11:52] <glatzor> there seems to be a problem with special chars. The German ones, e.g. , are broken in the KDE frontend
[11:52] <Riddell> meh, I tested it with french
[11:52] <Riddell> all of them?
[11:54] <glatzor> oh, seems to work now.
[11:54] <glatzor> the strings from the iso country codes were broken
[11:54] <Riddell> where? in the mirror dialogue?
[11:55] <glatzor> Riddell: yes. but it is ok now.
[11:55] <Riddell> umm..  something funny going on
[11:55] <glatzor> Riddell: night. I have to get up early tomorrow
[11:55] <Riddell> ok, sleep well glatzor, thanks for everything
[11:56] <glatzor> Riddell: you are welcome
[11:57] <kro> cjwatson: Should the netboot version of debian installer located at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/ work?
[11:57] <kro> cjwatson: thats what I used.


[00:00] <Daviey> infinity: Fancy revewing ubuntu-archive ML, i have a held mail.
[00:13] <cjwatson> Daviey: Done, and whitelisted you for the future.
[00:14] <Daviey> cjwatson: thank you sir.
[00:14] <Daviey> (i assumed you'd be smarter than me, and be afk :)
[02:14] <micahg> skaet: would it be ok for me to add Firefox/Thunderbird to the interlock page?
[02:15] <skaet> micahg,  please do.  :)   Thanks!
[02:17] <micahg> skaet: only conflicts seem to be alpha 1 (we can upload final early I think), and final freeze (release is 2 days before RC candidates)
[02:30] <skaet> micahg,  thanks for making that visible.  :)
[03:02] <infinity> cjwatson: Okay, arm* toolchains should be in a sane state again.  I'm going to freshen all the buildd chroots after eglibc is done building, and you should be good to go on the unstable autosync switcheroo any time after that (so, in a few hours).
[07:19] <infinity> cjwatson: Alright, chroots all updated and verified happy.
[08:58] <cjwatson> infinity: great, thanks
[10:29] <xnox> cjwatson: based from email to u-d, did you start syncs from unstable or are you still working on a work-around to enable syncing from unstable?
[10:30] <cjwatson> I meant what I said :-)
[10:31] <cjwatson> I'm still working on the workaround
[10:31] <cjwatson> I just wanted to give slightly more than "hi, I just started syncing from unstable, kthxbye" kind of notice
[10:44] <cjwatson> But certainly this is "speak now or forever hold your peace" kind of time
[10:49] <xnox> ok.
[10:49] <xnox> I have managed to make ubiquity fail one unit test by the way ;-)
[10:50] <xnox> but is comming up.
[10:50] <cjwatson> oh?
[10:50] <cjwatson> (-> #ubuntu-installer maybe)
[10:55] <cjwatson> gosh, my auto-sync workaround seems to be working more or less first time; I genuinely hadn't expected that
[10:57] <xnox> you are just awesome =) didn't you get used to that by now?! ;-)
[11:00] <ogra_> xnox, the prob is that he never belives us :)
[11:08] <wgrant> cjwatson: What'd you do?
[11:10] <cjwatson> wgrant: Fell back to fetching Sources from Debian
[11:10] <cjwatson> You thought auto-sync was elegant?
[11:10] <wgrant> Heh
[11:13] <cjwatson> Hm, slightly different results for new packages though; will need to look into that
[11:48] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone from ubuntu-sru could accept the remaining KDE 4.8.3 packages for precise-proposed so we can get testing.
[13:40] <cjwatson> wgrant: Looking at this, I'm not sure I believe the accuracy of DSD creation in the slightest.
[13:42] <cjwatson> I'll file a bug, but right now I think I'm honestly better off not bothering to look at them.
[13:45] <wgrant> cjwatson: I don't trust them at all, but what's the issue?
[13:45] <wgrant> I had no part in them other than defining the base version calculation.
[13:45] <cjwatson> A fair number of new packages in wheezy that have no DSDs.
[13:46] <wgrant> That's unhelpful.
[13:46] <cjwatson> Including some that were never in Ubuntu and ought to be synced, and some that were removed but have since had new versions in Debian.
[13:50] <cjwatson> wgrant: Do you think it will cause any major obstacle to investigation if I go ahead and sync some of the packages that should be synced?
[13:50] <wgrant> cjwatson: Go ahead
[13:50] <wgrant> It'll be months/years before anyone can investigate, and there are probably other cases
[13:52] <cjwatson> Righto
[14:12] <slangasek> how do I see from launchpad who synced a package?
[14:12] <slangasek> someone synced python-xattr over an Ubuntu delta, dropping the dh_python2 integration
[14:14] <stgraber> slangasek: Signed-By: Andres Rodriguez<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:14] <slangasek> stgraber: how do I see that ;)
[14:14] <stgraber> slangasek: quantal-changes :)
[14:15] <slangasek> stgraber: ah, ok
[14:15] <stgraber> slangasek: there might be some obscure way of getting it from LP too
[14:33] <tumbleweed> slangasek, stgraber: The SPPH record creator in the LP API
[14:34] <slangasek> tumbleweed: so nowhere visible in the UI?
[14:35] <tumbleweed> no, that would be too easy :)
[14:35] <slangasek> ack :)
[14:35] <slangasek> thanks for the info
[14:38] <cjwatson> Right, running a final auto-sync with the new algorithm from Debian testing, and then I'll attempt a switch to unstable
[14:38] <cjwatson> This has taken way too much of the day
[14:41] <tumbleweed> cjwatson: [reading backscroll] it may be useful to output a report on removed packages that have never versions in Debian to the version we removed (assuming they weren't blacklisted). or are such reintroductions rare enough not to bother?
[14:43] <cjwatson> auto-sync outputs those
[14:43] <cjwatson> Whoever's running it gets to decide what to do (or defer)
[14:43] <tumbleweed> great
[14:43] <cjwatson> They're certainly not infrequent
[14:44] <cjwatson> At some point I might add some stuff to open up packages.qa.debian.org and publishinghistory URLs in a browser or something
[14:44] <cjwatson> Since that's usually what I do to try to work it out
[17:51] <cjwatson> Auto-sync from unstable in progress ...
[17:51] <seb128> *fear* ;-)
[17:52]  * micahg wonders how many builds will end up in the queue
[17:53] <cjwatson> You know, I'm just going to go with "lots"
[17:55]  * micahg is just wondering if it'll be anywhere near the 10k at the first autosync
[17:56] <cjwatson> I shouldn't think so
[17:56] <stgraber> cjwatson: are you expecting a lot of things to hit New? (wondering if we should silence queuebot again)
[17:58] <cjwatson> Yes
[17:58] <cjwatson> Probably a plan
[17:59] <cjwatson> [New] nyancat_0.1+git20120401.5a88b86-1
[17:59] <cjwatson> obviously that's vital
[18:00] <knome>
[18:02] <stgraber> ;)
[18:04] <stgraber> cjwatson: can you run "/msg chanserv quiet #ubuntu-release queuebot"? (chanserv tells me I don't have access)
[18:05] <cjwatson> There you go
[18:05]  * knome is wondering if stgraber ircs from the same host
[18:05] <knome> ;]
[18:05] <cjwatson> He's cloaked, hopefully that makes a difference
[18:06] <knome> we probably see in a moment ;)
[18:06] <stgraber> I'm connected with @shell01.dmz.dcnue.stgraber.net which is also vorash but over IPv6
[18:06] <knome> heh
[18:07] <stgraber> (and the cloak probably also lets me avoid that mask)
[18:07] <cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1005184/
[18:07] <cjwatson> pressed enter, let's see how many goes it takes to get it through LP
[18:16] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks for accepting kde-l10n for precise.  If you could also accept blinken and cantor, we'd have all of KDE 4.8.3 in (they're in Universe and the uploader isn't MOTU, so they took longer to get in the queue).
[18:17] <cjwatson> (1256 syncs, FWIW)
[18:21] <micahg> 15 hrs on powerpc, not so exciting
[18:21] <cjwatson> It's not finished processing the PCJs yet, but sure
[18:22] <micahg> ah, ok
[18:44] <tumbleweed> looks like we got to 42 hours on ppc
[18:46] <micahg> nice, hopefully we'll end up with less build failures than we currently have
[20:34] <stgraber> I just uploaded a new lxc (-3ubuntu57) to precise-proposed. The diff is fairly big though I think I did a reasonable job of describing everything in the changelog.
[20:34] <stgraber> as discussed earlier with SpamapS, quite a few improvements are in there that won't change the behavior for the user but will make it significantly easier for us to cherry-pick additional fixes from quantal (if needed)
[20:35] <stgraber> I have testcases in all the linked bugs except one (lxc-start-ephemeral failing to get the IP from dhcp lease file) but I was told by gary_poster that the bug would be updated tomorrow
[20:36] <stgraber> the LXC testsuite was also run without spotting any regression. If whoever reviews it has any question, feel free to poke me :)
[22:09]  * xnox is puzzled
[22:09] <xnox> bitcoin	[build logs] (<IP_ADDRESS>-1)	✔	✔	✘	✘	✘
[22:09] <xnox> in the boost1.49 transition tracker, when it required boost1.49 merge, to get gcc4.7 ftbfs fixes
[22:10] <micahg> xnox: old binaries exist
[22:10] <xnox> micahg: but they would not have passed the transition criteria
[22:10] <micahg> hrm?
[22:11] <xnox> it looks like it was synced 3h40m ago, maybe newer bitcoin works around boost brokeness
[22:11] <micahg> no, it just dropped the other archs
[22:11] <xnox> micahg: I am talking about this page: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/boost1.49.html
[22:11] <micahg> err...idk about boost, but it dropped the other archs
[22:11] <xnox> are we on the same page?
[22:11] <micahg> xnox: yes, I nkow
[22:11] <micahg>   bitcoind | 0.3.24~dfsg-1 | quantal/universe | armel, armhf, powerpc
[22:12] <xnox> aha thanks
[22:12] <xnox> I wonder why though
[22:12] <micahg> hrm, LP doesn't recognize any-arm apparently
[22:13] <xnox> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=669200
[22:13] <micahg> infinity: ^^
[22:13] <ubot2> Debian bug 669200 in bitcoind "bitcoin: FTBFS on armel, armhf" [Normal,Fixed]
[22:13] <xnox> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=668864
[22:13] <ubot2> Debian bug 668864 in bitcoind "bitcoind: Doesn't support big-endian systems" [Wishlist,Fixed]
[22:14] <micahg> xnox: yes, powerpc binary should be removed, but arm needs any-arm to be recognized
[22:15] <xnox> micahg saves the day again!
[22:15]  * micahg flies off into the sunset
[22:15]  * xnox files an lp bug?
[22:16] <micahg> bug 917708
[22:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 917708 in launchpad "Launchpad does not recognize Arch = any-arm" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917708
[22:16] <xnox> yeap, found it as well now =) you are quicker
[22:22] <xnox> micahg: can we bump the priority of that bug?
[22:22] <micahg> xnox: better off buying infinity cookies
[22:24] <xnox> infinity: I promise british biscuits to you =)
[22:34] <infinity> That's a recognized arch?
[22:41] <micahg> infinity: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=668868#28
[22:41] <ubot2> Debian bug 668868 in src:bitcoin "bitcoind: Assertion failed at startup on mips (big endian)" [Serious,Fixed]
[22:51] <infinity> xnox: And yeah, for now, you'll just want to replace any-arm with "armel armhf"
[22:53] <infinity> (I can't imagine any-arm is used a lot...)
[22:54] <slangasek> whoa, any-arm is an alias to arm*?  That seems contrary to the other any globs
[22:55] <slangasek> I would've expected any-arm to match arm, hurd-arm :P
[22:55] <infinity> Yeah, I would have too.  But it seems to be a CPU alias.
[22:55] <slangasek> yuck
[22:55] <infinity> Which, actually, would make it incorrect for bitcoin's stated use ANYWAY.
[22:55] <infinity> Since it would match any-armeb.
[22:55] <slangasek> \o/
[22:55] <infinity> xnox: So, file a bug on bitcoin to change it to any-armel and any-armhf. :P
[22:56] <infinity> xnox: (In Debian)
[22:56] <infinity> Not that anyone builds armeb anymore, but it's the principle of the thing.
[22:57] <slangasek> or arwoofeb
[22:58] <infinity> aarc64eb
[22:58] <infinity> With a missing h.
[22:59] <slangasek> aardvarch
[22:59] <infinity> aardvarcheebie.
[23:00] <infinity> I'm actually kinda hoping the ditched the ability to flip endianness in v8, but I haven't looked.
[23:02] <slangasek> dh_clean: No compatibility level specified in debian/compat
[23:02] <slangasek> dh_clean: This package will soon FTBFS; time to fix it!
[23:02] <slangasek> wow
[23:02] <slangasek> what have I gotten myself into
[23:02] <infinity> No compat?  Seriously?
[23:02] <slangasek> well, DH_COMPAT=5 in debian/rules
[23:02] <slangasek> so it's one of Those
[23:16] <slangasek> ScottK: python-pam hasn't had a new upstream version since 1999, nor a Debian maintainer upload since 2007, and the packaging is quite ancient.  I'm happy to modernize the packaging but don't really want to be on the hook for maintaining it going forward; what would you recommend?
[23:17] <slangasek> (would be happy for it to go away under the circumstances, but python-twisted-core wants it)
[23:22] <RAOF> Hm. When I copied utouch-geis out of precise-proposed I should have also copied it to quantal, but didn't. Is there an existing tool to sync from precise-updates to quantal?
[23:22] <slangasek> RAOF: there are tools... but I may be using one that's deprecated since it's on cocoplum ;P  which one are you using?
[23:23] <RAOF> I'm not currently using one; I'm looking for one :)
[23:23] <RAOF> (Or, rather, I *used* sru-release for the copy from precise-proposed to -updates, but forgot to add the --devel switch)
[23:27] <stgraber> RAOF: maybe something like that from lp-shell will do it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1005675/
[23:33] <RAOF> Or maybe something like that will OOPS on launchpad with a timeout :)
[23:33] <RAOF> Thanks, though.
[23:36] <slangasek> RAOF: I can run a copy-package for you now
[23:36] <RAOF> slangasek: That'd be good, thanks.
[23:36] <slangasek> though, we're well past the point in the cycle at which anyone should be uploading to -proposed and expecting us to copy to quantal
[23:37] <slangasek> next time this happens, we ought to make it the uploader's problem... :)
[23:37] <RAOF> This was uploaded to precise-updates before the precise release; it's only just been verified.
[23:37] <slangasek> ah
[23:37] <RAOF> That said... there doesn't seem to be any particularly good reason to wait for it to be verified before copying it from precise-proposed to quantal.
[23:38] <slangasek> true
[23:38] <stgraber> RAOF: oh, well, that probably means that it was the right call, just got into the usual LP timeout on package copy :)
[23:39] <RAOF> It *does* have about 4 bugs attached; that might bring poor little launchpad to its knees :)
[23:39] <slangasek> RAOF: my point is, though, that we're well into the cycle now and we should be getting stuff rebuilt with the quantal toolchain / lib deps
[23:40] <slangasek> so should make people reupload to quantal anyway
[23:40] <slangasek> (so that the SRU team doesn't have to do a bunch of work to make a determination of whether it's safe to copy, that takes us more time than it would take to just reupload it)
[23:41] <slangasek> anyway - copied now
[23:48] <RAOF> Thanks.


[06:19] <dholbach> good morning
[13:42] <belkinsa> dholbach, keep in mind that the meeting bot is not in the channel.
[13:43] <dholbach> ok - will do - thanks
[13:44] <belkinsa> But you still can type in the commands for th ease of everyone.
[13:44] <dholbach> yep :)
[13:44]  * belkinsa gives a thumbs up to dholbach
[13:44] <dholbach> :-)
[13:44] <belkinsa> Just making sure that you know.  :)
[15:00] <dholbach> daker, coolbhavi - can you join #ubuntu-meeting
[15:01] <dholbach> ^ dpm_, popey, balloons, mhall119: did you want to join the meeting about the LoCo Team portal as well?
[15:01] <balloons> dholbach, planned on it
[15:01] <mhall119> yup
[15:02] <dholbach> brilliant
[15:02] <dholbach> the more the merrier
[15:03] <dpm_> dholbach, sure, on #ubuntu-meeting?
[15:03] <dholbach> yep
[15:06] <dpm_> argh, I thought I was in there already, but I was waiting on #ubuntu-touch-meeting
[15:30] <dholbach> dpm_, hippie
[15:31] <dpm_> dholbach, sorry, I'm being surrounded by rabbits and getting distracted. Working from someone else's kitchen with pets running around the house today :)
[15:32] <dholbach> haha, take a picture of you with the rabbits :)
[15:32] <dpm_> no way I'm doing a selfie, let alone with other animals :)
[15:33] <dholbach> dpm_, go go go!
[15:33] <dholbach> come on
[15:33] <dholbach> the world wants exactly that
[15:34] <dpm_> I hate to disappoint the world, but I wouldn't want to breach the rabbit's privacy
[15:37] <dholbach> I'm sure the rabbit would love their 5 minutes of fame as well.
[15:42] <dpm_> :)
[15:46] <dholbach> all right my friends - time to call it a day - have a great weekend everyone!
[15:46] <belkinsa> Thanks dholbach, you too!