[15:45] <coz_> hey all
[23:06] <troy_s> Dust kick.
[23:46] <doctormo> hey troy_s
[23:46] <troy_s> doctormo: Greets friend. How are things?
[23:46] <doctormo> troy_s: good, http://doctormo.org/2011/02/06/congratulations-debian/


[00:56] <bmeduho> Is there anyone here who can answer some questions I have about Xubuntu?
[03:05] <xubuntu474>
[07:40] <nikolam> I had a girl over last night and we ere listening to some music from soundcloud
[07:40] <nikolam> Yet, 2 times machine locks up starting sceeen saver and music stops
[07:41] <nikolam> Why music, sound output has to stop on locking machine
[07:41] <nikolam> its annoying
[07:41] <nikolam> it is 14.04.2 LTS 32bit there
[07:41] <cfhowlett> nikolam, screensaver?  xscreensaver is known to cause issues with xubuntu 14.04/lightdm
[07:42] <cfhowlett> nikolam, in fact, the xubuntu page suggests removing/disabling xscreensaver
[07:42] <nikolam> I dunno I have set it to blank screen after 20 minutes, loc some time after it and then turn it off in xubuntu settings
[07:42] <nikolam> Nowhere is mentioned that it would mute the sound, too
[07:43] <nikolam> At least I don't remember it used to do that in releases before
[07:44] <brainwash> nikolam: please read http://xubuntu.org/news/screen-locking-in-xubuntu-14-04/
[07:44] <cfhowlett> nikolam, "Due to the switch from xscreensaver to light-locker, some users might have issues with timing of locking; removing xscreensaver from the system should fix these problems"
[07:44] <brainwash> it answers all your questions
[07:45] <nikolam> reading...
[07:45] <brainwash> cfhowlett: but this is a fixable problem, no need to replace light-locker
[07:45] <cfhowlett> brainwash, good find.
[07:45] <cfhowlett> brainwash, dude.  read the link.
[07:53] <nikolam> bah, no screensavers...
[07:54] <nikolam> As I understand xsceensaver is much better solution, except it is not updated visually...
[07:55] <brainwash> basically yes
[07:55] <nikolam> bah
[07:56] <cfhowlett> nikolam, better?  than lightlocker?  not really.
[07:57] <nikolam> I red the article. Seems like xscreensaver does not need separate VT, does not stops audio when you try to log in, does not force you to put yourself in audio group..
[07:58] <nikolam> Only thing with it is that it looks outdated. And I don't see both accept user switching? Or do they
[07:58] <brainwash> also, it does not cause trouble with power management (due to the VT switch)
[07:59] <nikolam> "Otherwise, switching to another user may leave the new user without access to sound devices. "
[07:59] <brainwash> both should support user switching
[07:59] <nikolam> yes I think I witnessed one problem before after bringing from standby, but neet to re-check it again.
[08:00] <brainwash> so yeah, go ahead and replace light-locker with xscreensaver (or something else)
[08:01] <nikolam> So there is actually no solution for sound for me for light-locker. First one “When the screensaver is deactivated” leaves me with no sound before log in and audio group leaves user switching with no sound.
[08:01] <nikolam> Only solution is to bring back xscreensaver
[08:01] <nikolam> Ok, will do.
[08:04] <nikolam> light-locker seems like it is for single user machines only, regarding to sound.
[08:05] <brainwash> there are plans to make light-locker work without VT switching. sadly, no progress so far
[08:05] <nikolam> ok, good to know.
[08:06] <brainwash> and light-locker will continue to be the default screen locker in xubuntu despite its drawbacks
[08:06] <nikolam> I was using Xubuntu for long time now. Since 7.04 I think. With some interruptions recently. My feeling is that things are improved in many ways
[08:06] <nikolam> Like, 64-bit everything working without quirks, but that is expected in 2015 comparing to 2007
[08:07] <brainwash> yes, I can confirm that
[08:07] <nikolam> Otherwise it was needed to do amazing amount of work to have everything work liek it should, like flash, additional packages, codecs, and many small things that require deper knowledge of an OS
[08:08] <nikolam> Mostly I never bought that _khm_ retarted Ubuntu way of installing packages. I depend on synaptic and aptitude to get things done.
[08:09] <cfhowlett> perhaps that's a good thing considering xscreensaver's age and that modern screens make the screensaver unnecessary
[08:09] <nikolam> Plus I needed to search web for answer, when choosing stable nvidia driver
[08:10] <nikolam> I think that screensavers are needed because people still like to have something on their screen when they log off
[08:10] <nikolam> or locks actually
[08:10] <nikolam> If other platforms have it, why not xubuntu have it
[08:10] <brainwash> right, xscreensaver is mainly used as screen locker. the screensaver part is not that important anymore
[08:10] <nikolam> Advancing light-locker to be more like xscreensaver could be a way to go
[08:11] <nikolam> It is not that important, but loosing ability to run screen saver is not a good solution when comparing to other platforms.
[08:12] <nikolam> "they can't even run screensaver" etc.
[08:13] <brainwash> no one really complains about missing animated screensavers
[08:13] <brainwash> nowadays
[08:14] <brainwash> nikolam: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues/22
[08:14] <nikolam> I know, but I think I do. If people use it less, does not mean they don't use it. Inability to use it is somewhat ackward.
[08:15] <ochosi> nikolam: there's no inability, you can install stuff on your own and use that. light-locker is only part of the default setup. linux is open, so you can decide for yourself what you need if you don't like the default
[08:17] <nikolam> ochosi, that might be the good answer. Ok it is default inability, e.g. default settings disable screensavers and audio on user switching.
[11:01] <Afdla> how can I lower the mouse sensitivity to lower than the minimum in the settings?
[11:01] <Afdla> xinput stuff didn't do anything
[17:38] <Hudsonkem> hello guys
[17:39] <Hudsonkem> well, I would like to know why my "open window" or "save window", same times are different?
[17:39] <Hudsonkem> like that> http://i.imgur.com/N6X3m3o.png
[17:43] <Hudsonkem> the correct is (thunar)>> http://i.imgur.com/zamrve2.png
[20:09] <sinelaw> how to upgrade from 14 to 15?
[20:11] <sinelaw> dist-upgrade, ok


[00:00] <kyrofa> enoch85, works for me-- I have a working apache
[00:00] <enoch85> kyrofa, cool! :D
[00:01] <rickspencer3> arg
[07:33] <dholbach> good morning
[07:33] <dholbach> kyrofa: shall I upload snapcraft 1.0 to regular xenial (not the ppa) for you?
[07:34] <dholbach> mvo: do we want to change our docs on developer.u.c to mention 16.04 at some stage?
[07:36] <mvo> dholbach: I think so, especially now that some changes are in the pipeline that will appear really soon. the whole system a/b stuff is obsolete and replaced by all-snaps for example. some environment varialbles are simplified
[07:36] <mvo> etc
[07:37] <dholbach> mvo: the a/b stuff and the environment variables are part of snappy/docs, right?
[07:45] <mvo> dholbach: yes, the docs are not updated yet though, I put that on the todo
[07:47] <dholbach> ok
[07:47] <dholbach> and for developer.ubuntu.com/snappy/start - what would you suggest?
[07:47] <dholbach> that we advertise which 16.04 channels?
[07:48] <dholbach> do you know if 16.04 images for all different "targets" are built by us already?
[07:57] <dholbach> mvo: ok, let's chat about it in a bit - I'll relocate to the office - brb
[07:57] <mvo> dholbach: unfortunately not, we are transitioning the images right now and expect to have new images based on the all-snap architecture by the end of the week. at least for rpi2 and amd64
[07:57] <mvo> dholbach: see you
[07:58] <dholbach> ok cool - I'll file a bug so we can track the work
[07:58] <dholbach> thanks
[08:28] <dholbach> mvo: I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1533099
[09:18] <zyga> good morning
[09:18]  * zyga works on capability type interface, so that everything is an API, not a DSL
[09:38]  * zyga thinks loudly: cap.Capability refers to cap.Type (iface) which can be a concrete BoolFileType which has interface methods for things like "grant permission(cap, snap)" "revoke permission(cap, snap)", internally the type will also know about snippets of seccomp/apparmor and will hand them out to security systems on demand
[09:59] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Poetry At Work Day! 😃
[10:58] <LefterisJP> Hey guys, is DBUS the only way that a framework's service can listen to requests from the outside world (other snapps)?
[11:00] <zyga> LefterisJP: you can also use other sockets
[11:00] <zyga> LefterisJP: but security gets more complicated then
[11:02] <enoch85> ok kyrofa I'm here now
[11:04] <LefterisJP> zyga: I have an app that listens on plain unix sockets, which I need to have as the main daemon service of the framework. Are there any examples where such framework communication is achieved?
[11:05] <zyga> LefterisJP: I think mir would be one
[11:05] <zyga> LefterisJP: you'll need some extra security to handle other people talking to that socket
[11:08] <LefterisJP> zyga: Which of these repos is the framework? https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/
[11:09] <LefterisJP> zyga: Any examples of what kind of extra security I would need to take care of, or well .. if the mir guys do that somewhere in code I could just look at that.
[11:10] <zyga> LefterisJP: you need extra apparmor permissions to let other people talk to your socket
[11:10] <zyga> LefterisJP: I'm sorry, I'm not sure where the mir snapcraft file is
[11:13] <LefterisJP> zyga: It's okay. It's already something good to know that I don't need to use Dbus. I thought I would have to make an extra service to read DBUS and write to that unix socket inside the framework. I will try to look at the apparmor documentation to see how to allow for this communication.
[11:13] <LefterisJP> If anyone has any tips/links I would be more than glad to have them
[11:20] <zyga> LefterisJP: I suggest looking for anything that uses mir in snappy
[11:27] <LefterisJP> zyga: Thank you will do and will come back here with more questions if I got any.
[12:52] <bellyfeel> does anyone have a link to the 16.04 image?
[12:54] <Chipaca> bellyfeel: which 16.04 image?
[12:55] <bellyfeel> rolling
[12:56] <Chipaca> bellyfeel: yeah, but there are a number. Maybe you want https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/snappy/rolling/core/edge/current/ ?
[12:56] <bellyfeel> i'll check it out, thanks!
[12:56] <Chipaca> bellyfeel: or maybe you want to just use: sudo ubuntu-device-flash core rolling --channel edge --oem generic-amd64/stable --enable-ssh --output rolling_edge_amd64.img
[13:12] <icey> has anybody figured out how to run the maas controller on snappy?
[13:12] <icey> or thought about it?
[13:17] <kyrofa> dholbach, yes please!
[13:17] <kyrofa> enoch85, woo you beat me by a few hours. You still here?
[13:17] <dholbach> kyrofa: done
[13:17] <enoch85> kyrofa, yes :)
[13:18] <enoch85> kyrofa, so you got the apache up and running?
[13:18] <kyrofa> enoch85, I did. Shall we take this private?
[13:18] <kyrofa> dholbach, thank you!
[13:18] <enoch85> kyrofa, ok
[13:18] <dholbach> anytime
[13:43] <kyrofa> mvo, what is the state of classic?
[13:56] <kyrofa> sergiusens, did you ever send out that announcement email?
[14:01] <sergiusens> kyrofa, yeah, yesterday, it is all over the ubuntu and ubuntudev google plus and twitter accounts ;-)
[14:01] <sergiusens> kyrofa, and I pinged you here iirc, did I not?
[14:01] <sergiusens> kyrofa, are you and snappy-app-devel?
[14:01] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah you did, but I must not be on the right mailing list!
[14:02] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I thought I was. Guess not :P
[14:02] <kyrofa> sergiusens, now I am *cough*
[14:02] <sergiusens> kyrofa, https://plus.google.com/107265043789873157543/posts/DBonvXp7nen
[14:03] <kyrofa> sergiusens, very good :)
[14:11] <sergiusens> kyrofa, do you mind helping Fazer with a proper rebase?
[14:12] <kyrofa> sergiusens, love to
[14:15] <sergiusens> kyrofa, whose untriagle?
[14:15] <kyrofa> sergiusens, davidcalle
[14:16] <davidcalle> o/
[14:17] <sergiusens> davidcalle, mind doing a git commit --amend for https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/218 and putting LP: #XXXXX in there?
[14:17] <sergiusens> davidcalle, asking so you are not forced to rebase once my doc changes land (and I am instead) ;-)
[14:18] <bellyfeel> is there a way to build a snap using snapcraft without installing the dependencies?
[14:20] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, which dependencies?
[14:21] <bellyfeel> I might be getting confused about the snapcraft cycle but I have a list of packages in stage-packages that get downloaded and installed while doing a snapcraft build
[14:21] <bellyfeel> i only want them to be installed on my device after the snap is built
[14:21] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, ah
[14:21] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, but where do they come from on the device?
[14:21] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, your snap :)
[14:21] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, which means they must be downloaded and put into the snap to create it in the first place
[14:23] <davidcalle> sergiusens: git status
[14:23] <davidcalle> sergiusens: lol, sorry
[14:23] <davidcalle> Wrong window
[14:23] <bellyfeel> ok downloading is fine but it looks as if I'm having collisions with packages on my dev machine with packages that should go on my device
[14:23] <bellyfeel> with aptitude
[14:24] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, that should definitely not be happening
[14:24] <elopio> kyrofa: can you help this guy with the rebase? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/217
[14:24] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, stage-packages are downloaded and unpacked only in parts/<name>/ubuntu and parts/<name>/install
[14:24] <kyrofa> elopio, yeah I'm typing it out now
[14:24] <elopio> thanks :)
[14:25] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, what sort of collisions are you seeing?
[14:25] <bellyfeel> I think it might have something to do with 32bit dependencies
[14:25] <bellyfeel> so for instance binutils:i386
[14:26] <bellyfeel> snapcraft gives me a "failed doing pull for device: binutils:i386"
[14:27] <bellyfeel> no other output information is given, so I tried running aptitude by itself
[14:28] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, please pastebin the entire log, let me have a look
[14:28] <bellyfeel> snapcraft log?
[14:28] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, yeah, where you see the error
[14:28] <bellyfeel> ok
[14:31] <elopio> kyrofa: sergiusens: no standup today?
[14:32] <kyrofa> elopio, no I'm just slow
[14:44] <sergiusens> elopio, kyrofa ah, more slots have been added http://ubucon.org/en/events/ubucon-summit-us/schedule/ ; the lightning talk is 15 minutes, probably 10 gven setup and such :-)
[14:44] <kyrofa> sergiusens, whew
[14:44] <elopio> sergiusens: maybe 5, to answer questions :)
[14:46] <davidcalle> sergiusens: I think I've successfully amended the commit, but being new to git, please check I've made no mistakes, I had to try several times before git let me push it :)
[14:47] <kyrofa> davidcalle, since you amended, you probably had to force push yes?
[14:47] <bellyfeel> kyrofa, pastebin.com/Vp7uGRgw
[14:47] <kyrofa> davidcalle, that's normal, since your history and github's history officially "diverged"
[14:48] <kyrofa> Gahh, rolling is so broken
[14:49] <davidcalle> kyrofa: ok, just trying to get the hang of the git workflow, which feels a bit alien when coming from bzr :)
[14:51] <kyrofa> davidcalle, no problem, we understand!
[14:53] <mvo> kyrofa: rolling is broken in what way?
[14:54] <kyrofa> mvo, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/14478142/ . Any thoughts?
[14:55] <mvo> kyrofa: uh, that should not have been imported
[14:55] <kyrofa> mvo, hahaha
[14:55] <mvo> kyrofa: I disabled the importing monday
[14:55] <mvo> kyrofa: thats really anyoing
[14:55] <mvo> kyrofa: sorry for this
[14:56] <kyrofa> mvo, hey, it's rolling. Not supposed to be perfectly stable :)
[14:56] <kyrofa> davidcalle, looks like you played a merge game of some kind to make git happy
[14:57] <mvo> kyrofa: well, this change breaks stuff left and right. what kind of image is that? a normal snappy rolling edge or did you copy snappy on it manually or something?
[14:57] <kyrofa> davidcalle, you should squash up and force push
[14:57] <mvo> kyrofa: if its not the snappy of the image I will stop panicing
[14:57] <kyrofa> mvo, it's a canonistack VM created from the rolling edge image
[14:57] <mvo> kyrofa: hm, thats bad
[14:58] <kyrofa> mvo, want SSH?
[14:59] <mvo> kyrofa: no, its fine
[14:59] <kyrofa> davidcalle, I just walked another PR author through it if you want a reference: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/217
[15:00] <kyrofa> davidcalle, just remember, if you change history, you'll need to push with --force
[15:01] <davidcalle> kyrofa: ah, excellent, thanks
[15:03] <mvo> kyrofa: thanks for letting me know!
[15:03] <elopio> fgimenez: I have a meeting with Iftikhar and Jibel during our slot. Do you want to move it or cancel it today?
[15:05] <kyrofa> mvo, no problem!
[15:09] <fgimenez> elopio, np, i think we can cancel, my report: the jenkins swarm thing is almost done, i hope to have it finished for today
[15:09] <elopio> fgimenez: yay.
[15:19] <mvo> kyrofa: could you please try to upgrade your image?
[15:19] <kyrofa> mvo, just a snappy update?
[15:19] <kyrofa> mvo, or a new image?
[15:20] <mvo> kyrofa: I think a snappy update should help, not sure if it is available yet
[15:20] <mvo> but should be soon
[15:20] <kyrofa> mvo, trying now, it's applying something anyway
[15:20] <mvo> kyrofa: yay, lets see if stuff is normal after a reboot
[15:32] <mvo> kyrofa: is it looking better?
[15:33] <kyrofa> mvo, oops sorry, it took a minute to reboot and I saw a squirrel
[15:33] <kyrofa> mvo, yep! All fixed :)
[15:33] <kyrofa> mvo, thank you!
[15:34] <mvo> kyrofa: \o/ thanks! sil2100 saved the day with his system-image superpowerz
[15:34] <kyrofa> mvo, heh, awesome :)
[15:38] <bellyfeel> is there a way to get more verbose output from snapcraft
[15:45] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, I'm sorry, I missed your pastebin above
[15:46] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, my initial assumption is that Snapcraft is not using the i386 sources
[15:46] <kyrofa> bellyfeel, you should try running this on an i386 host (virtualized is fine)
[15:47] <renat> Hi all! It's Renat from Screenly. Yes, again me with my questions=)
[15:47] <kyrofa> Hey renat :)
[15:47] <renat> kyrofa, hi!=)
[15:47] <renat> So - the question is Raspberry Pi /dev/vchiq device relateed
[15:49] <renat> We created a snap which should use that device to display an interface with OpenGL ES. So - I do snappy hw-assign, and then I can run that snap from the root user. It fails when I try to run it from the ubuntu user, or If I try to run it as a service.
[15:49] <renat> Perhaps, because of /dev/vchiq access rights
[15:49] <renat> crw------- 1 root root
[15:51] <renat> Is it right settings for that device? I believe that display devices should be accessible from any snap, if access granted by the hw-assign.
[15:54] <kyrofa> renat, I'd normally refer you to ogra, but he's out until the 16th
[15:56] <renat> kyrofa, thanks. I will create a bug report in hope that he will see it.
[15:57] <kyrofa> renat, yeah good idea
[16:03] <pindonga> elopio, hi there... got any ETA for when https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/202 will get merged?
[16:07] <sergiusens> pindonga, he needs a review from his QA colleagues last I heard
[16:08] <sergiusens> kyrofa, did you see elopio's pings to you in the docs review?
[16:08] <sergiusens> davidcalle, you seem to have forgotten to squash
[16:09] <kyrofa> sergiusens, oh, no, reading now
[16:09] <pindonga> sergiusens, care to explain the rationale for squashing all the work into a single commit?
[16:10] <pindonga> I think I need to do that on my PR
[16:10] <sergiusens> pindonga, I'll let kyrofa do that since he is better versed in that
[16:10] <sergiusens> pindonga, I have 2 reasons, easier to cherrypick and easier to revert
[16:10] <kyrofa> pindonga, are you familiar with `git blame`?
[16:11] <pindonga> kyrofa, the same as bzr blame right? :)
[16:12] <kyrofa> pindonga, ah, yeah same purpose. So you get a line-by-line "this is who made this change and why"
[16:12] <kyrofa> If you didn't squash into a feature commit, some of those "whys" would be "crap, forgot this."
[16:12] <pindonga> well, but that's the truth :)
[16:12] <kyrofa> pindonga, hahaha
[16:13] <kyrofa> But then it would require more digging. "Well, what feature was this a part of?"
[16:13] <pindonga> k
[16:13] <kyrofa> pindonga, when you're developing a feature, checkpoint commits and good and healthy
[16:13] <kyrofa> But when your feature is done, checkpoint commits have no place in a project history
[16:14] <kyrofa> For the reasons I mentioned as well as cherry-picking and reverting reasons mentioned by sergiusens among others I'm sure
[16:14] <pindonga> kyrofa, I differ somewhat, but that's not the issue here, I appreciate you explaining me the reasons
[16:14] <pindonga> am happy to follow the defined process
[16:15]  * pindonga goes squash his commits
[16:16] <kyrofa> pindonga, yeah you can imagine how squashing might get out of hand
[16:16] <kyrofa> pindonga, but that's why we try to keep our features as small as possible
[16:16] <kyrofa> pindonga, which also lends itself well to the reasons above
[16:16] <pindonga> kyrofa, also it's mainly due to a limitation of the tool at hand
[16:17] <pindonga> that doesn't show you the 'merge' commit
[16:17] <pindonga> as a unit
[16:17] <kyrofa> pindonga, it does actually, assuming it wasn't a fast forward
[16:18] <kyrofa> pindonga, but the others are also part of the history
[16:18] <kyrofa> bzr totally hides that from you
[16:18] <pindonga> right
[16:18] <sergiusens> kyrofa, I wished we had ff support on github too :-)
[16:18] <kyrofa> which is fine, just a different tool
[16:18] <pindonga> kyrofa, exactly , which is why I'm not ranting here :)
[16:18] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah I'm curious about the justification behind that. Gitlab does that too
[16:18]  * pindonga just prefers bzr model on this, but understand the reasons in git-world
[16:19] <kyrofa> pindonga, oh it's not taken as a rant! I'm sorry if what I'm saying is coming off that way :P
[16:19] <pindonga> no , totally not
[16:19]  * pindonga was just covering his bases :)
[16:19] <kyrofa> pindonga, heh. I appreciate your willingness to follow other workflows :) . I know this would be totally weird in bzr
[16:20] <pindonga> it's also probably bc I'm not that used to it
[16:20] <kyrofa> pindonga, understandable :)
[16:21] <kyrofa> pindonga, I came to bzr from a git background, and was frustrated by the inability to easily clean up my work
[16:25] <kyrofa> dholbach, do the developer.ubuntu.com docs handle ``` correctly?
[16:25] <dholbach> kyrofa: they should soon
[16:25] <kyrofa> dholbach, or do you need to indent as in normal markdown?
[16:26] <kyrofa> dholbach, okay
[16:26] <dholbach> we're going to use pymdown-extensions in one of our next landings
[16:27] <kyrofa> dholbach, awesome. Have you synced the 1.x docs since 1.0 was released?
[16:27] <dholbach> kyrofa: no, it's still manual until we do the landing I talked about
[16:28] <dholbach> like manual manual
[16:28] <kyrofa> dholbach, heh. Copy-paste?
[16:28] <dholbach> and convert some bits and pieces, so links work, etc
[16:28] <kyrofa> dholbach, blech, poor guy
[16:28] <dholbach> yes
[16:28] <kyrofa> dholbach, when is that landing happening?
[16:28] <dholbach> very soon
[16:28] <dholbach> we had lots of stumbling blocks along  the way
[16:29] <kyrofa> dholbach, this week very soon or this month very soon?
[16:29] <sergiusens> I did that twice on the portal, I felt like dying
[16:29] <kyrofa> sergiusens, hahaha
[16:29] <dholbach> kyrofa: I guess the latter
[16:29] <dholbach> this or next week
[16:29] <dholbach> fingers crossed and all
[16:29] <dholbach> it's been quite a bit of work
[16:30] <sergiusens> dholbach, I think kyrofa asks because of https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/221/files
[16:30] <dholbach> I'm in a hangout on air right now - I'll get back to you in a bit
[16:30] <sergiusens> dholbach, I am watching you fwiw ;-)
[16:30] <dholbach> :-)
[16:30] <dholbach> always watching me
[16:30] <sergiusens> I don't expect instant replies ;-)
[16:30] <sergiusens> lol
[16:31] <sergiusens> 1984 style
[16:31] <kyrofa> dholbach, okay, and understood! How would you feel about me copy-pasting the ROS docs? So I can point people there? Would that interfere with your landing?
[16:31] <dholbach> I think the extension I mentioned above should make ```yaml and stuff like that work
[16:31] <dholbach> if you want to update manually, feel free to
[16:31] <dholbach> it's not going to interfere
[16:32] <kyrofa> dholbach, oh sheesh, I'm sorry for interrupting you! When you get a chance, I've not done that before, I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction. I'm not even sure I have permission to do something like that
[16:33] <sergiusens> kyrofa, dholbach http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7694887/is-there-a-command-line-utility-for-rendering-github-flavored-markdown
[16:33] <sergiusens> you can probably strips atom's previewer ;-)
[16:34] <sergiusens> kyrofa, also, pandoc supports github flavored markdown
[16:34] <dholbach> sergiusens: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/rework-importer/view/head:/md_importer/importer/article.py#L50
[16:35] <dholbach> kyrofa: sure - let me add you and give you links and stuff
[16:35] <sergiusens> pandoc -f markdown_github
[16:35] <wxl> hey folks is there a 15.04 amd64 image that i can zsync or torrent? i keep having problems getting one where the checksum matches :/
[16:36] <kyrofa> sergiusens, by the way, you were spot on regarding why I was asking about that :P
[16:36] <kyrofa> sergiusens, saved you a comment
[16:37] <kyrofa> dholbach, thank you!
[16:37] <sergiusens> kyrofa, I have lost context but good to know I hit a target by accident :-P
[16:37] <elopio> pindonga: lets say end of the week. I'm fighting coveralls now, I hope that's the last one.
[16:37] <kyrofa> sergiusens, :D
[16:37] <elopio> but every change I have to wait for travis to tell me if I made something wrong. So it's slow.
[16:42] <sergiusens> jdstrand, so what was wrong in snapcraft, security-policy or security-override?
[16:47] <jdstrand> sergiusens: on 16.04, security-override
[16:47] <fgimenez> elopio, http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/ this is the first deployment, all the slaves come from the same xenial container
[16:48] <fgimenez> elopio, i'll propose the branch in a few minutes, let me know if we need different slaves
[17:00] <sergiusens> jdstrand, do we have any docs or guidelines so I know what to do? or a snapcraft bug report (I can write one if the info is elsewhere)
[17:09] <elopio> fgimenez: for snapcraft 1.x, we need vivid or trusty. But for now, I'm more than happy with xenial.
[17:10] <jdstrand> sergiusens: see docs/security.md in snappy git trunk
[17:11] <fgimenez> elopio, ok, it's very easy to add them, i'll put hands on it. when we switch to k8s will be even easier, and we don't need to have them around, they'll live while the job that requires them is up
[17:23] <sergiusens> jdstrand, what is an 'abstraction', have an example handy?
[17:24] <jdstrand> sergiusens: it is what's in /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions
[17:25] <sergiusens> jdstrand, the file names or the contents of those files?
[17:25] <jdstrand> file names
[17:25] <sergiusens> looks like raw apparmor
[17:25] <sergiusens> got it
[17:33] <sergiusens> jdstrand, are all four entries optional?
[17:37] <rickspencer3> hi all
[17:38] <rickspencer3> I just uploaded my rest-cam snap to the store
[17:38] <rickspencer3> I guess I can't install it from there because I am running 16.04?
[17:40] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, I thought I remembered seeing rolling as a valid channel?
[17:40] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, or edge or something
[17:40] <rickspencer3> kyrofa, yeah, I put it there
[17:40] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, oh. I figure that would have worked
[17:40] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, you too I suppose :P
[17:40] <rickspencer3> well, the bug could be between my head and the keyboard ;)
[17:43] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, I assume you don't even see it as available, correct?
[17:44] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, and the automated checks have all passed etc.?
[17:44] <rickspencer3> kyrofa, I was just told that it is not done the checks yet :)
[17:44] <kyrofa> Ahh
[17:44] <kyrofa> rickspencer3, you just move too fast. Slow down. Grab a cup of coffee or something
[17:44] <rickspencer3> kyrofa, turns out I had a bug somewhere so it didn't work
[17:45] <rickspencer3> I got too used to it "just working" :)
[17:45] <kyrofa> Heh
[18:10] <sergiusens> Chipaca, after reading kyrofa's comment about stop-timeout I read the man page and it seems we can make services wait forever to stop if I read it correctly
[18:11] <sergiusens> should it trigger manual review is my question
[18:11] <sergiusens> maybe more of a question for jdstrand
[18:16] <sergiusens> kyrofa, wrt rolling and ros, maybe check the envvars and make sure they are correct
[18:18] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah I will. Working on a demo now though
[18:18] <sergiusens> demo beats bug :-)
[18:18] <kyrofa> sergiusens, timelines man, timelines ;)
[18:25] <jdstrand> sergiusens: if this is a value of stop-timeout that makes the service wait forever, and we don't want to allow that, the review tools can verify the value is within approved parameters and prompt for manual review if it is outside of those values
[18:25] <jdstrand> Chipaca, sergiusens: if you'd like this change in the review tools, please file a bug
[18:25] <sergiusens> jdstrand, right, seems 0 disables it, so it is a number we don't want to allow I guess
[18:31] <kyrofa> sergiusens, what happens if you specify "0min 0s" or something similar?
[18:31] <sergiusens> kyrofa, value needs to be an int
[18:31] <sergiusens> it will likely fail in some other place
[18:32] <kyrofa> sergiusens, oh right, the yaml requires an integer okay
[18:38] <wxl> sorry for asking again, but does anyone know of a zsync or torrent available for ubuntu-15.04-snappy-amd64-generic.img.xz? i keep getting mismatched checksums
[18:49] <kyrofa> wxl, I don't know that there are any
[18:50] <kyrofa> wxl, you could always make the image yourself
[18:50] <wxl> kyrofa: well sheesh we should have one! i'd seed it bud i need to get the darn thing right, first
[18:50] <wxl> kyrofa: link me to instructions? i might have not drilled down enough for that
[18:53] <kyrofa> wxl, install ubuntu-device-flash and run sudo ubuntu-device-flash core 15.04 --channel stable --output ubuntu-15.04-snappy.img
[18:53] <kyrofa> wxl, ... I think. It's been a while :P
[18:54] <wxl> kyrofa: i'll grab ubuntu-device-flash and read the man page. thanks for the pointer in the right direction :)
[18:54] <kyrofa> wxl, sure thing :)
[19:03] <wxl> ugh sheesh how do i find the device names?
[19:04] <wxl> i would think these are them but it doesn't seem to be the case http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/15.04/stable/
[19:08] <wxl> ubuntu-device-flash query --list-images --channel ubuntu-core/15.04/stable --device generic_amd64 yields several images
[19:09] <jerryG> is darren landol online?
[19:09] <wxl> oh i see. even though you use the core command you need to specific the full path of the channel (ubuntu-core/15.04/stable not 15.04/stable or just stable)
[19:09] <wxl> also, have i386 images stopped getting updated?
[19:10] <jerryG> Chipaca:  how do i check the mir socket being used?
[19:17] <sergiusens> jdstrand, and kyrofa care to check https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/222/files ?
[19:56] <sergiusens> kyrofa, I don't understand your question; as in, what you are asking is what I think subtests are for
[19:56] <sergiusens> kyrofa, removing all but one will make the test fail but validation pass
[19:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah I may not understand what's happening here. So it looks to me like you have only one app definition within self.data['apps'], whose definition seems meant to fail all four invalid combinations. No?
[19:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa, yup
[20:00] <sergiusens> kyrofa, so first I straight out validate as is in a subTest context expecting to fail
[20:00] <sergiusens> kyrofa, then I create a real copy of the dict and iterate over the three keywords removing them before a validation expecting them to fail as well
[20:01] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ahh, tricky, I missed the deletion
[20:01] <kyrofa> sergiusens, okay ignore me
[20:01] <sergiusens> it does what you ask for, we can argue about elegance
[20:01] <kyrofa> sergiusens, no argument from me :)
[20:01] <sergiusens> but I'd only se testscenarios with testtools
[20:02] <kyrofa> sergiusens, +1 from me
[20:10] <sergiusens> kyrofa, \o/
[20:24] <sergiusens> kyrofa, docs are also updated fwiw
[20:29] <jerryG> sergiusens: link plz?
[20:30] <sergiusens> jerryG, for what?
[20:31] <jerryG> sergiusens: idk. new docs
[20:31] <jerryG> sergiusens: :}
[20:31] <sergiusens> jerryG, it is just a PR, feel free to look though https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/221#discussion_r49486380
[20:31] <jerryG> sergiusens: ty
[20:38] <kyrofa> sergiusens, what is the currently recommended way to create a .snap for an arm device using snapcraft? Is classic in a state to allow that so we can do it on-device? Or a qemu VM?
[20:39] <sergiusens> kyrofa, classic
[20:39] <sergiusens> kyrofa, at least rickspencer3 has used it :-)
[20:39] <kyrofa> sergiusens, excellent. I don't suppose that's available in vivid?
[20:40] <sergiusens> kyrofa, it only rolls
[20:40] <kyrofa> sergiusens, alright thanks :)
[20:41] <kyrofa> sergiusens, rolling edge? Or 15.04?
[20:41] <kyrofa> Or do I have that backward... rolling stable? :P
[20:58] <sergiusens> kyrofa, rolling and 15.04 are the releases
[20:58] <sergiusens> stable and edge are channels
[20:58] <sergiusens> there is no stable channel on rolling
[20:58] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ah, so rolling edge is it
[20:59] <sergiusens> more so; you probably want an all snaps image
[20:59] <kyrofa> Ah, okay
[20:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa, maybe build u-d-f out of this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/goget-ubuntu-touch/all-snaps/+merge/275273
[21:03] <kyrofa> sergiusens, hmm... does hw-assign need something special in the package name? I'm using the name snappy list is giving me and I'm getting "snappy package not found"
[21:05] <kyrofa> Oh... .sideload
[21:05] <kyrofa> Been a while since I used that one
[21:17] <sergiusens> kyrofa, hah
[21:17] <kyrofa> sergiusens, alright I have a demo that works outside of snappy, but within snappy I can't get permission to access the webcam, even with hw-assign. Know anything about that?
[21:17] <sergiusens> kyrofa, snappy install snappy-debug
[21:17] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I've got it-- no denials
[21:18] <sergiusens> kyrofa, not even seccomp?
[21:18] <sergiusens> kyrofa, what about running the binary from within the package and no launcher?
[21:18] <sergiusens> kyrofa, as in exec /apps/package/version/bin/my-app
[21:20] <kyrofa> sergiusens, still denied.
[21:20] <kyrofa> crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 0 Jan 12 21:10 /dev/video0
[21:21] <sergiusens> kyrofa, oh, sudo mypackage.myapp
[21:21] <sergiusens> kyrofa, I assume service all the time
[21:21] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ROS blows up if you run as sudo :( . This works on my local machine with the same permissions-- must be a group thing?
[21:22] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I can make it a service though-- I guess it'll need to be anyway
[21:23] <sergiusens> kyrofa, it is a group thing; we just went over this the other day with jdstrand
[21:23] <sergiusens> kyrofa, add ubuntu to the video group
[21:23] <kyrofa> sergiusens, oh heh. Sorry to drag it back up
[21:23] <sergiusens> kyrofa, oh, didn't mean it like that; just that I had it fresh in my mind
[21:23] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ah, good :)
[22:49] <sergiusens> kyrofa elopio, still around? are we good to merge this https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/221
[22:49] <sergiusens> elopio, btw, do you want to have a look at this? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/222
[22:59] <elopio> sergiusens: I'm good with #221. And you already got 2 reviews for #222, so land it when you want. I'll take a peek later.
[23:09] <sergiusens> elopio, here's one for you https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/225 but lets wait for the tests to finish just in case
[23:12] <wxl> how do you guys deal with the fact that you seem to primarily do development on github but generally bugs are being reported on launchpad? i know there's no upstream issue tracker for github on lp, so it seems like you have to fight with two totally separate systems
[23:17] <sergiusens> wxl, to be fair, the tracker in launchpad is much better
[23:17] <sergiusens> but we just do
[23:17] <sergiusens> it is not a problem
[23:18] <wxl> yeah i'm sure you get by but it's interesting, sergiusens :)
[23:57]  * tsimonq2 spots wxl :)


[08:26]  * Craw^ mano kay Antrax2000
[14:38]  * Craw^ mano kay Shipcode
[14:38] <Craw^> musta rootcon?
[14:40] <shipcode> ok nman
[14:40] <shipcode> hehe
[14:44] <shipcode> hehe it was fun really
[14:59] <Craw^> I tried checking the Ustreams...
[14:59] <Craw^> kaso di kaya ng net connection ko lol
[15:00] <shipcode> LOL
[15:00] <shipcode> atty vitangcol is my idol na
[15:00] <shipcode> protector
[15:00] <shipcode> sya
[15:00] <Craw^> yung isang pinagtiyagaan ko for almost a minute di ko rin maintindihan ang sinasabi. medyo panget ang kinalabasan ng audio sa ustream...
[15:01] <Craw^> binabasa ko na lang yung tweets kaso di din naman masyado consistent tweeting, sayang.
[15:01] <shipcode> oo nga eh
[15:01] <Craw^> kwento mo naman mga sinabi ni Atty. Vitangcol.
[15:02] <shipcode> na wlang law na nagproprosecute ng hacker d2 sa pinas
[15:04] <Craw^> may nabasa ako somewhere na pinag-iisipan na yata ng congress na dapat may law... but knowing congress, kelan pa kaya mapapasa yun?
[15:05] <shipcode> ewan
[15:05] <shipcode> lol
[15:06] <Craw^> lol
[15:07] <shipcode> nxt time mag ipon ka
[15:07] <shipcode> rootcon 6 ay sa cebu pa rin
[15:11] <Craw^> garrrrrrrrr
[15:11] <Craw^> layo naman
[15:11] <Craw^> pero sige try ko mag-ipon
[15:11] <Craw^> may garden ba kayo? pwede ba mag-tent ako sa garden niyo para makatipid sa accommodations?
[15:11] <Craw^> lol
[15:11] <shipcode> LOL
[15:12] <shipcode> dun ako kina ederts na22log nga eh
[15:12] <shipcode> ksama ko si kamayutak
[15:12] <arscariosus> kailan rootcon6 mga idol?
[15:13] <shipcode> rootcon 6 will be happening on September 7-8, 2012 in Cebu City, detailed venue will follow soon...
[15:15] <arscariosus> better save some $$ then
[15:18] <shipcode> mag card ka idol total carder ka nman.lol
[15:20] <Craw^> uy may date na pala
[15:21] <arscariosus> hahaha student lang po sir :3
[15:24] <shipcode> ako student din ako eh ;)
[15:24] <compromised> rootcon, dba yan yung hacking convention?
[15:24] <compromised> d2 sa PH
[15:25] <compromised> kapareho din ng defcon sa US
[15:35] <shipcode> natakot yung speaker frm trend micro sa akin
[15:35] <shipcode> binomb ko ng questions
[15:35] <shipcode> about shady rat sa 1st day
[15:35] <shipcode> LOL
[15:35] <shipcode> gagagaga
[15:35] <Craw^> Yes sir, Philippine hacker conference nga po
[15:35] <shipcode> ahahaha
[15:35] <shipcode> yep
[15:35] <shipcode> affiliated to Defcon actually
[15:37] <shipcode> it was named as Defcon PH but was changed to pinoygreyhat then to ROOTCON
[15:38] <shipcode> then ginaya ng india ang name na rootcon
[15:39] <compromised> kelan ba last nila na convention?
[15:39] <compromised> trend micro yung anti virus company d2 sa ph?
[15:49] <shipcode> oo
[15:49] <shipcode> last convention was sept 8-9
[15:49] <shipcode> bago lang ntapos
[15:52] <Craw^> hahaha sira ka papa shipcode
[15:52] <Craw^> nasagot ba niya mga tanong mo?
[15:53] <shipcode> d masyado
[15:53] <shipcode> nag stutter
[15:53] <Craw^> lol
[15:53] <compromised> ahh
[15:53] <shipcode> i mean sept. 9-10
[15:53] <shipcode> sorry
[15:53] <shipcode> lol
[15:54] <compromised> anu2 mga topic dun sa convention?
[15:54] <shipcode> topics > http://www.rootcon.org/xml/rootcon5/tracks
[15:55] <compromised> wow
[15:55] <compromised> infosec
[15:55] <compromised> wla ba programming dun?
[15:55] <shipcode> meron
[15:55] <shipcode> yung reversing
[15:56] <shipcode> at mga threat security
[15:56] <shipcode> reverse engineering
[15:56] <shipcode> tapos may contest na root me if u can na solid dns at freebsd
[15:56] <shipcode> then wifi cracking contest
[15:56] <shipcode> tapos capture the flag aka hakista challenge
[15:57] <Craw^> sumali ka sa Root Me?
[15:57] <compromised> anu yung solid dns
[15:57] <shipcode> hacker jeopardy
[15:58] <shipcode> <compromised> anu yung solid dns >>> isa sa mga security appliance/box ng infoweapons( a cebu based company of Lawrence Hughes) which was sold also to the US army
[15:58] <compromised> parang embedded systems?
[15:58] <shipcode> ito yung pic
[15:59] <compromised> anung game yung root me
[15:59] <shipcode> SolidDNS®, a future-proofed and secure DNS appliance that allows enterprises of any size to manage their Domain Name System service easily and efficiently. The product features an intuitive user interface and seamless support for IPv6, and was developed as a secure appliance from the ground up. SolidDNS® provides easy management of dual stack (supporting both IPv4 and IPv6) DNS and DHCP operations without the need for extensive Unix or BIND kn
[15:59] <shipcode> owledge.
[15:59] <shipcode> <Craw^> sumali ka sa Root Me? > yep pro wlang nka hack dun
[16:00] <compromised> dugo ilong
[16:00] <shipcode> http://infoweapons.com/content/soliddns-info-page?quicktabs_5=2#quicktabs-5
[16:00] <compromised> wla ba dyan
[16:00] <Craw^> lol @ compromised
[16:00] <shipcode> ito
[16:00] <compromised> in layman's term
[16:00] <shipcode> tignan mo
[16:00] <shipcode> http://infoweapons.com/content/soliddns-info-page?quicktabs_5=2#quicktabs-5
[16:01] <shipcode> root me is when u get rooted frm the machine, making u the super user
[16:01] <shipcode> root > uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
[16:02] <compromised> ay sipon pala lumabas
[16:02] <compromised> heh
[16:02] <Craw^> shipcode, anong ginawa ng closest to winning sa Root Me?
[16:02] <compromised> su lang
 shipcode, anong ginawa ng closest to winning sa Root Me? > ma root mo
[16:02] <shipcode> compromised> su lang >>>>>> nope u need to root it
[16:02] <compromised> su ka lang ganun?
[16:02] <shipcode> meaning
[16:03] <shipcode> nit just use the command su
[16:03] <shipcode> but exploit it
[16:03] <Craw^> nonono... walang winner diba? pero sino ang pinakamalapit sa pag-root? sana clear tanong ko lol
[16:03] <compromised> ahh exploit pala mismo
[16:03] <compromised> eh dba matagalun
[16:03] <shipcode> nonono... walang winner diba? pero sino ang pinakamalapit sa pag-root? sana clear tanong ko lol >>> nka connect sa box
[16:03] <shipcode> yan pinakamalapit
[16:03] <compromised> matagal un*
[16:04] <compromised> bubuo ka pa ng code
[16:04] <compromised> ilang duration ba binigay?
[16:04] <compromised> aalamin mo pa yung weakness ng system
[16:04] <compromised> hah
[16:05] <compromised> hanggang xp lang ako
[16:05] <shipcode> <!-- Nmap 5.00 scan initiated Fri Sep  9 16:37:20 2011 as: nmap -A -oA soliddns <IP_ADDRESS> -->
[16:05] <shipcode> <nmaprun scanner="nmap" args="nmap -A -oA soliddns <IP_ADDRESS>" start="1315557440" startstr="Fri Sep  9 16:37:20 2011" version="5.00" xmloutputversion="1.03">
[16:05] <shipcode> <scaninfo type="connect"  protocol="tcp" numservices="1000" services="1,3-4,6-7,9,13,17,19-26,30,32-33,37,42-43,49,53,70,79-85,88-90,99-100,106,109-111,113,119,125,135,139,143-144,146,161,163,179,199,211-212,222,254-256,259,264,280,301,306,311,340,366,389,406-407,416-417,425,427,443-445,458,464-465,481,497,500,512-515,524,541,543-545,548,554-555,563,587,593,616-617,625,631,636,646,648,666-668,683,687,691,700,705,711,714,720,722,726,749,765,777,7
[16:05] <shipcode> 83,787,800-801,808,843,873,880,888,898,900-903,911-912,981,987,990,992-993,995,999-1002,1007,1009-1011,1021-1100,1102,1104-1108,1110-1114,1117,1119,1121-1124,1126,1130-1132,1137-1138,1141,1145,1147-1149,1151-1152,1154,1163-1166,1169,1174-1175,1183,1185-1187,1192,1198-1199,1201,1213,1216-1218,1233-1234,1236,1244,1247-1248,1259,1271-1272,1277,1287,1296,1300-1301,1309-1311,1322,1328,1334,1352,1417,1433-1434,1443,1455,1461,1494,1500-1501,1503,1521,1
[16:05] <shipcode> 524,1533,1556,1580,1583,1594,1600,1641,1658,1666,1687-1688,1700,1717-1721,1723,1755,1761,1782-1783,1801,1805,1812,1839-1840,1862-1864,1875,1900,1914,1935,1947,1971-1972,1974,1984,1998-2010,2013,2020-2022,2030,2033-2035,2038,2040-2043,2045-2049,2065,2068,2099-2100,2103,2105-2107,2111,2119,2121,2126,2135,2144,2160-2161,2170,2179,2190-2191,2196,2200,2222,2251,2260,2288,2301,2323,2366,2381-2383,2393-2394,2399,2401,2492,2500,2522,2525,2557,2601-2602,
[16:05] <shipcode> 2604-2605,2607-2608,2638,2701-2702,2710,2717-2718,2725,2800,2809,2811,2869,2875,2909-2910,2920,2967-2968,2998,3000-3001,3003,3005-3007,3011,3013,3017,3030-3031,3050,3052,3071,3077,3128,3168,3211,3221,3260-3261,3268-3269,3283,3300-3301,3306,3322-3325,3333,3351,3367,3369-3372,3389-3390,3404,3476,3493,3517,3527,3546,3551,3580,3659,3689-3690,3703,3737,3766,3784,3800-3801,3809,3814,3826-3828,3851,3869,3871,3878,3880,3889,3905,3914,3918,3920,3945,3971
[16:05] <shipcode> ,39
[16:06]  * compromised na hilo
[16:06] <compromised> anu yan?
[16:06] <compromised> landline numbers?
[16:06] <compromised> heh.
[16:06] <shipcode> 998 filtered ports
[16:06] <shipcode> PORT    STATE SERVICE    VERSION
[16:06] <shipcode> 53/tcp  open  domain
[16:06] <shipcode> 443/tcp open  ssl/https?
[16:07] <shipcode> yan lumabas sa nma ko
[16:07] <shipcode> so need ng certificate hijacking
[16:07] <shipcode> kasi 443
[16:07] <shipcode> https yan eh
[16:07] <shipcode> hirap
[16:07] <compromised> san yan
[16:07] <shipcode> sa solid dns
[16:07] <shipcode> during the con
[16:08] <compromised> anu yun mga numbers sa taas
[16:08] <Craw^> 2 ports lang open?
[16:08] <shipcode> yep
[16:09] <shipcode> services yan
[16:09] <compromised> anu yung 53
[16:09] <compromised> ssl sa 443
[16:09] <compromised> domain
[16:09] <Craw^> ah hindi yan yung sa Root Me?
[16:09] <compromised> website ba penipenitrate niyo?
[16:10] <shipcode> nope
[16:10] <shipcode> solid dns yan
[16:11] <compromised> I mean website nila?
[16:11] <Craw^> ah, akala ko naman sa Root Me yan
[16:11] <shipcode> nope
[16:11] <shipcode> sa root me nga yan
[16:11] <compromised> cnu winner
[16:11] <shipcode> wla eh
[16:12] <compromised> nge
[16:12] <shipcode> kasi d pwde sumali ang na setup at ang ibang goons
[16:12] <compromised> pwde ba un
[16:12] <Craw^> ah o nga pala lol ano ba yan... hanap na nga muna ako ng pagkain
[16:12] <shipcode> hirap nga eh
[16:12] <compromised> astig
[16:13] <compromised> anu sana price
[16:13] <shipcode> kasi appliance na na sold sa us army\
[16:13] <shipcode> ah yung price is android tablet
[16:13] <compromised> wow
[16:13] <compromised> android tablet
[16:13] <shipcode> tapos free access sa incoming con
[16:13] <compromised> ilan ba participants
[16:14] <Craw^> anong tablet?
[16:14] <Craw^> samsung?
[16:14] <compromised> nde bawal yung rootcon?
[16:14] <compromised> underground community kc
[16:17] <shipcode> d nman underground an rootcon eh
[16:17] <shipcode> 205 >participants
[16:17] <shipcode> ewan anong tablet
[16:17] <shipcode> basta android eclair
[16:19] <Craw^> o nga, di naman underground ang rootcon
[16:20] <Craw^> actually educational nga siya, kaya ko sana gusto mag-attend, layo lang
[16:20] <shipcode> parang defcon
[16:20] <compromised> ah ic kala ko kc puro blackhat mga andun
[16:20] <Craw^> madami din mga speakers nila mga professional whitehats...
[16:20] <shipcode> mixed bro
[16:21] <shipcode> may greyhat
[16:21] <shipcode> may blackhat
[16:21] <shipcode> may whitehat din
[16:21] <compromised> ahh nice
[16:22] <shipcode> may feds
[16:22] <shipcode> in fact nandun din ang departmnt of defense na director
[16:24] <Craw^> sa rootcon?
[16:24] <shipcode> yep
[16:24] <shipcode> sumali
[16:24] <Craw^> haha nice
[16:24] <arscariosus> sayang talaga hindi ako nakapunta :(
[16:24] <Craw^> kung andun ako magpapa-autograph ako sa mga yon
[16:24] <Craw^> pati kay papa shipcode papa-autograph ako lol
[16:24] <shipcode> may lockpicking na topic
[16:24] <shipcode> LOL
[16:25] <shipcode> si jolly mongrel
[16:25] <arscariosus> makapagipon na nga para next year wahahaha
[16:25] <compromised> anung feds
[16:25] <arscariosus> hirap maging estudyante walang pera
[16:25] <shipcode> gamit paper clip sa pag lockpick ng pusas
[16:25] <compromised> lol
[16:25] <shipcode> feds > govt agents
[16:25] <shipcode> arscariosus> hirap maging estudyante walang pera  >student dn ako =)
[16:25] <shipcode> oo nga
[16:25] <shipcode> mahal din kc
[16:25] <compromised> pati lockpick tinuturo dun?
[16:26] <shipcode> dinemo
[16:26] <shipcode> oo
[16:26] <compromised> madami sideline
[16:26] <compromised> pwde mo pagkakitaan yung skills mo
[16:26] <compromised> tutal madami ka namn alam
[16:26] <shipcode> true true..i agree with compromised
[16:27] <arscariosus> sir shipcode di bale didiskarte na talaga ako next year haha. kelan kaya magiging sa manila ulit katulad ng pinoy greyhat gathering
[16:27] <compromised> ganyan pag student
[16:27] <compromised> dapat madiskarte
[16:27] <compromised> student din ako eh
[16:27] <compromised> hehe
[16:27] <Craw^> arscariosus, sana nga meron sa manila no?
[16:28] <compromised> oo nga
[16:28] <compromised> sana me convention din sa mnila
[16:28] <arscariosus> okay lang ilang MP lang yan at ilang thesis
[16:28] <arscariosus> magkakapamasahe at accommodation na hahaha
[16:28] <shipcode> actually sa cebu padin i held nxt yr
[16:29] <compromised> sir shipcode baka pwde ka d2 http://www.zerodayinitiative.com/
[16:29] <shipcode> kasi 2-4 was held in manila
[16:29] <shipcode> 0 day ;)
[16:29] <compromised> yep
[16:29] <compromised> pwde ka dyan
[16:30] <compromised> madami ka alam security
[16:30] <shipcode> send ko CLA emAIL inviation for nxt yr's con
[16:30] <compromised> madami ka alam sa security*
[16:30] <shipcode> ito lang advise pag nsa con
[16:31] <shipcode> wag mag login sa mga sites
[16:31] <shipcode> dapat nka tunnel
[16:31] <shipcode> at nka vpn
[16:31] <compromised> bakit namn
[16:31] <shipcode> kasi may wall of sheep
[16:31] <compromised> anung tunnel
[16:31] <Craw^> brb, hanap food.
[16:31] <shipcode> ssh tunnel
[16:31] <compromised> sa GG meron din tunnel
[16:31] <shipcode> ganito kasi yan
[16:31] <shipcode> may wall of sheep
[16:31] <shipcode> kami
[16:31] <shipcode> tapos
[16:31] <compromised> wall of sheep?
[16:31] <compromised> anu po un
[16:32] <shipcode> i popost sa screen ang mga captured packets using arp poisoning
[16:32] <shipcode> makikita mga fb logs dun
[16:32] <shipcode> etc etc
[16:32] <shipcode> email
[16:32] <compromised> wa
[16:32] <compromised> bakit may ganun
[16:32] <shipcode> d lesson is to learn how to secure urlself
[16:32] <shipcode> may ganun
[16:32] <compromised> envasion of privacy na un
[16:32] <shipcode> nope
[16:32] <shipcode> kasi
[16:33] <shipcode> d nilogin tapos sa passwd nilagyan asterisk sa mga dulo na
[16:33] <shipcode> bale
[16:33] <shipcode> its aim is to promote security
[16:33] <shipcode> yun lang po
[16:33] <compromised> ah ok
[16:33] <shipcode> invasion pag pinasok namin fb nyo
[16:34] <shipcode> pero pag wall of sheep hindi
[16:34] <Craw^> hahaha sakto parang sa defcon
[16:34] <compromised> anu gagawin niyo po sa mga login kapag nakuha niyo
[16:34] <shipcode> gnyan din sa defcon
[16:34] <Craw^> may wall of sheep din dun
[16:34] <shipcode> wla
[16:34] <shipcode> post lang sa screen
[16:34] <shipcode> parang wall of shame din
[16:34] <compromised> ah ok
[16:34] <arscariosus> sir shipcode taga cebu ka rin ba?
[16:34] <shipcode> yep
[16:35] <compromised> paano po yung ma bypass
[16:35] <shipcode> wag po sir,student lang ako
[16:35] <arscariosus> shipcode, ninja naman hahaha
[16:35] <compromised> sir na lang
 paano po yung ma bypass >>>> d bypass...arp poisoning
[16:35] <compromised> ah ok
[16:35] <compromised> arp
[16:35] <shipcode> through the use of ettercap or wireshark ;)
[16:35] <compromised> para ka kasing instructor
[16:35] <compromised> hehe
[16:36] <compromised> sir!
[16:36] <shipcode> lolz nman
[16:36] <arscariosus> hahaha
[16:36] <compromised> pwde ka na mag turo
[16:36] <arscariosus> sir shipcode CS ba course mo? curious lang ako haha
[16:37] <compromised> sir shipcode anu po mga programming language na alam mo?
[16:37] <compromised> ako IS
[16:37] <shipcode> advance diploma in programming po ako
[16:37] <compromised> 2nd yr
[16:38] <shipcode> 1st yr pa ako
[16:38] <compromised> wow
[16:38] <compromised> 1st yr?
[16:38] <arscariosus> ako din 2nd year, kami ni iamanepichero
[16:38] <compromised> ilang taon no po kau
[16:38] <arscariosus> kaso web applications development kami hehe
[16:38] <compromised> na*
[16:38] <compromised> advance pa ha
[16:38] <shipcode> kasi dati ab philo ako for 3 yrs
[16:38] <arscariosus> hahahaha
[16:38] <shipcode> 19 na po ako
[16:38] <compromised> anu ibig sabihin sa programming
[16:38] <arscariosus> ab lit ako dati sir hahaha
[16:38] <arscariosus> weird
[16:38] <compromised> anu mga programming language tinatackle niyo?
[16:39] <shipcode> ah php at c++ at vbs
[16:39] <shipcode> kami sa skul
[16:39] <shipcode> pero nakakaintindi na ako perl
[16:39] <compromised> san po kau fluent
[16:39] <shipcode> kasi yung irc bot ko is coded in perl
[16:39] <arscariosus> oks din ruby pang gawa ng irc bot sir
[16:40] <compromised> eh d madami kau sideline niyan
[16:40] <compromised> nde ka lang programmer
[16:40] <arscariosus> oo infosec pa hehe
[16:40] <compromised> I mean
[16:40] <shipcode> sali po kau sa forums > http://forum.rootcon.org/index.php
[16:40] <compromised> nde ka lang security analyst
[16:40] <compromised> programmer pa
[16:40] <arscariosus> compromised, sang school ka, pwede malaman?
[16:40] <compromised> dito po ako sa gensan
[16:41] <compromised> up
[16:41] <arscariosus> wow
[16:41] <compromised> kau po
[16:41] <arscariosus> feu - east asia college, hindi uso sa school namin info sec
[16:41] <arscariosus> uso dun IUPC at ICPC.
[16:41] <arscariosus> weird.
[16:41] <compromised> far eastern?
[16:41] <arscariosus> yup
[16:41] <compromised> ah ok
[16:41] <arscariosus> kami ni iamanepichero classmate ko sya
[16:42] <compromised> anu yung IUPC ICPS
[16:42] <arscariosus> yung programming competition ng acm
[16:42] <compromised> anung course niyo po
[16:42] <arscariosus> web applications development kami
[16:42] <compromised> ah ok
[16:42] <compromised> php/asp/jsp?
[16:43] <arscariosus> sir shipcode ano po magandang book pang starters sa info sec?
[16:43] <arscariosus> compromised, ruby on rails at python minamaster ko. pero ang tinuturo sa min php/java EE
[16:44] <arscariosus> saka C at Java SE sa mga lower subjects
[16:45] <compromised> java EE, jsp?
[16:45] <compromised> hee
[16:45] <compromised> nice
[16:45] <arscariosus> oo sir yun ang major namin e.
[16:45] <arscariosus> hindi ko digs masyado java masyadong verbose
[16:45] <compromised> pare pareho lang pala tau
[16:45] <arscariosus> ganun din sa nyo sir?
[16:45] <compromised> java din samin
[16:45] <compromised> java SE/ME/EE
[16:45] <compromised> C#
[16:45] <compromised> yep
[16:45] <compromised> php
[16:46] <arscariosus> sa bagong curriculum sa min may Java ME na rin sa specialization namin
[16:46] <arscariosus> pero di kami inabot
[16:46] <arscariosus> web lang kami walang mobile hehe
[16:46] <compromised> mobile
[16:46] <compromised> pang mobile un
[16:46] <compromised> mahirap nga
[16:46] <compromised> sayang
[16:46] <compromised> maganda sana
[16:47] <arscariosus> e android dev sir tinry mo na?
[16:49] <compromised> nde pa po
[16:49] <compromised> kau?
[16:49] <arscariosus> tinry ko pero hindi ako lumayo hehe naging busy e
[16:50] <compromised> ah ic
[16:50] <compromised> CS po kau?
[16:50] <iamanepichero> noobs lg po ako :D
[16:50] <arscariosus> CS ako dati pero nagshift ako sa IT with specialization in web apps
[16:51] <compromised> ah sayang
[16:51] <compromised> bakit po kau nag shift
[16:51] <compromised> nde ba maganda CS sa inyo?
[16:52] <arscariosus> ganun din naman, depende din sa tao
[16:52] <arscariosus> kung interesado sa algorithms
[16:52] <arscariosus> hehe
[16:53] <shipcode> ah...books
[16:53] <shipcode> hmmmm
[16:53] <shipcode> sa infosec
[16:53] <shipcode> naggogogle lang ako eh
[16:53] <shipcode> tapos
[16:53] <shipcode> try ko mga payloads ng metasploit
[16:54] <arscariosus> ganun din ginagawa ko ngayon sir
[16:54] <compromised> payloads
[16:54] <arscariosus> kaso nafufrustrate ako
[16:54] <compromised> anu yung payloads
[16:54] <compromised> pay loads
[16:54] <arscariosus> openVAS gamit ko at nmap
[16:54] <arscariosus> kaso wala akong mahanap na vulnerabilities :(
[16:54]  * compromised dugo ilong
[16:54] <arscariosus> so di ko maapply
[16:54] <shipcode> tapos nakikihalobilo sa mga undergrnd groups
[16:55]  * Craw^ abot tissue kay compromised
[16:55] <compromised> san niyo yan nakukuha
[16:55] <compromised> haha
[16:55] <compromised> alien words
[16:55] <arscariosus> wala ako mahanap na exploit na eksakto
[16:55] <shipcode> reformed defacer kasi ako pero now greyhat na
[16:55] <compromised> openVAS
[16:55] <compromised> nmap
[16:55] <compromised> metasploit
[16:55] <shipcode> used to be frm projectx
[16:55] <arscariosus> hindi naman ako ganun ka leet para gumawa ng exploit ko :(
[16:56] <shipcode> http://www.pnri.dost.gov.ph/about.html
[16:56] <shipcode> used to be frm this group
[16:56] <shipcode> but i quit defacing
[16:56] <arscariosus> wow
[16:56] <arscariosus> paano ba magdeface? sql injection?
[16:57] <shipcode> dami paraan
[16:57] <compromised> waaaaaa
[16:57] <shipcode> s
[16:57] <shipcode> sqli
[16:57] <compromised> .gov
[16:57] <shipcode> rfi
[16:57] <compromised> ma t tv tau niyan
[16:57] <shipcode> lfi
[16:57] <compromised> kau po nag hack nun?
[16:57] <shipcode> dnn
[16:57] <compromised> cnu po mga projectx
[16:57] <shipcode> d ako
[16:57] <shipcode> d ako nyan
[16:57] <shipcode> dating team mates
[16:57] <shipcode> projectx > secret na yan mate
[16:58] <shipcode> irc ng irc lang cla
[16:58] <arscariosus> binabasa ko ngayong CEH review kaso parang walang dating. puro terminology.
[16:58] <shipcode> CEH course is a shit\
[16:58] <arscariosus> hindi ko na nga tinuloy. mas madami pa natutuhan ko sa youtube.
[16:58] <shipcode> tomo
[16:59] <arscariosus> kaso ang script kiddie ng dating ko hahaha
[16:59] <shipcode> magandang scanner dude is piata
[16:59] <shipcode> sa ssh
[17:00] <shipcode> kasi may bruteforce
[17:00] <shipcode> tapos sa crackin nman ay wifited
[17:00] <shipcode> i mean wifite
[17:00] <arscariosus> noted. hindi pa ako familiar sa mga yan haha
[17:00] <shipcode> i mean wifi crackin
[17:00] <arscariosus> aircrack palang nagagamit ko haha
[17:00] <shipcode> wifite is coded in python
[17:01] <shipcode> aircrack is good
[17:01] <shipcode> cli din
[17:01] <shipcode> sa rootcon
[17:01] <shipcode> nagbabantay din kami sino nag aarp poisoning
[17:02] <shipcode> si spry kinopya nya mac ng user para ma couter
[17:02] <shipcode> counter
[17:02] <shipcode> so in the end
[17:02] <arscariosus> mac cloning sir?
[17:02] <shipcode> sya na arp poisoned
[17:02] <shipcode> yep
[17:02] <shipcode> mac cloning
[17:03] <arscariosus> gumagana yun sa school heheh
[17:03] <shipcode> yan din kasi vulne ng mga 4g wimax routers
[17:03] <shipcode> tapos
[17:03] <shipcode> pinopost namin
[17:03] <shipcode> sino nag snisnif na mac
[17:03] <shipcode> nkalagay sa screen
[17:03] <shipcode> good luck sniffing ;)
[17:03] <shipcode> ahhehehehe
[17:03] <arscariosus> ayos, may 1 year pa ako para matuto hahaha
[17:03] <arscariosus> at mag ipon
[17:04] <arscariosus> sir shipcode penge naman ng decent na resources para ma jump start yung learning namin
[17:04] <arscariosus> hehehe
[17:04] <shipcode> wla ako eh
[17:04] <arscariosus> kahit titles lang
[17:04] <Craw^> ako meron
[17:04] <shipcode> nagbabasa ako sa offensive security
[17:04] <Craw^> http://www.google.com lol
[17:05] <shipcode> tomo
[17:05] <shipcode> si Craw
[17:05] <Craw^> pero eto seryoso
[17:05] <arscariosus> hahaha hindi ko kasi alam san magsisimula
[17:05] <Craw^> http://www.governmentsecurity.org/
[17:05] <Craw^> basa kayo ng forum diyan
[17:05] <arscariosus> masyadong malawak yung skill set na kelangan
[17:05] <Craw^> madami siguro kayo makukuhang links
[17:05] <arscariosus> sa offensive security dun ako naututo mag metasploit
[17:05] <arscariosus> pero konti lang
[17:05] <arscariosus> hehe
[17:07] <arscariosus> thanks sir Craw^
[17:07] <Craw^> shipcode, nakakuha ka pala ng kopya ng NodeZero Rootcon edition?
[17:07] <Craw^> arscariosus, no problem
[17:08] <shipcode> wla pa eh
[17:08] <shipcode> tapos
[17:08] <shipcode> bro
[17:08] <shipcode> sa sqli
[17:09] <shipcode> d ako gumagamit ng tools
[17:09] <shipcode> manual
[17:09] <shipcode> yan dapat kasi
[17:09] <shipcode> kasi yung philker skiddies yun eh xcept kay blackrain
[17:10] <Craw^> si blackrain very helpful pag dating sa sqli
[17:10] <shipcode> sa privatex manual din, lalo na si 13
[17:10] <Craw^> pero di ko alam na skids ang ibang members ng philkers...
[17:10] <Craw^> may philker member ba dito sa channel? paki confirm or deny naman lol
[17:11]  * arscariosus can't relate O_O
[17:11] <Craw^> shipcode, ano nga ulit yung torrent site? buhaypirata.org ba yun?
[17:12] <shipcode> buhaypirata.net
[17:12] <shipcode> wlang philker d2
[17:12] <Craw^> shipcode, naninigurado lang, baka meron eh tas tahimik lang lol
[17:13] <Craw^> shipcode, may mga ebooks ba sa buhaypirata?
[17:13] <compromised> sql lang alam ko
[17:13] <compromised> mysql querries
[17:13]  * arscariosus is intrigued
[17:13] <compromised> anu po yung sqli
[17:13] <compromised> bagong language?
[17:13] <Craw^> sqli = sql injection
[17:13] <arscariosus> compromised, sql injection is a technique
[17:13] <compromised> sa db
[17:13] <compromised> anu po yan
[17:13] <compromised> technique po san
[17:13] <arscariosus> ang pinakabasic e sa forms
[17:14] <arscariosus> minsan nag eeval ng code
[17:14] <Craw^> search mo sa google or sa wikipedia ang sql injection. sa wikipedia may ok na article about that
[17:14] <shipcode> meron yta
[17:14] <shipcode> kalimutan ko
[17:14] <shipcode> teka
[17:14] <shipcode> guys
[17:14] <compromised> yes sir
[17:14] <shipcode> punta kau irc.dalnet tapos #buhaypirata
[17:14] <compromised> philker
[17:14] <compromised> sikat un dba
[17:14] <compromised> hacking group d2 sa phil
[17:15] <compromised> mga ka brod mo un sir shipcode ?
[17:15] <shipcode> hindi
[17:15] <shipcode> pero i know them
[17:15] <shipcode> killa ko leader nila
[17:15] <shipcode> pumpasok sa channel namin
[17:15] <shipcode> nag chachat kami
[17:15] <Craw^> si blackrain ba leader nila?
[17:15] <compromised> san po channel niyo
[17:15] <shipcode> #buhaypirata
[17:16] <compromised> wla po tao
[17:16] <shipcode> meron
[17:16] <Craw^> di ako makakonek sa dalnet :/
[17:16] <Craw^> oops, spoke too soon
[17:16] <shipcode> sa irc.dal.net
[17:17] <Craw^> compromised, sa dalnet ka magkonek
[17:17] <compromised> ah ok
[17:17] <compromised> wa
[17:17] <compromised> baka me hakir dun
[17:17] <compromised> makita ip ko
[17:18] <compromised> hacker*
[17:18] <shipcode> h4xor
[17:18] <compromised> safe ba dun mag connect?
[17:18] <arscariosus> dito din naman makikita IP
[17:18] <shipcode> hindi ;)
[17:18] <arscariosus> if im not mistaken
[17:18] <compromised> sakin naka cloak
[17:18] <compromised> kaya safe ako
[17:18] <compromised> hehe
[17:18] <Craw^> compromised, ano ba gamit mo na IRC client?
[17:19] <arscariosus> ako naka vm e
[17:19] <arscariosus> hahaha
[17:19] <compromised> xchat po
[17:19] <compromised> minsan irssi
[17:19] <compromised> xhcat po kung naka multi network ako
[17:19] <Craw^> parehas tayo... xchat and minsan irssi
[17:19] <compromised> xchat*
[17:19] <compromised> irssi kapag isang network lang
[17:19] <compromised> anu ic
[17:19] <compromised> distro niyo ubuntu?
[17:20] <arscariosus> gusto ko subukan mag BT
[17:20] <arscariosus> may persistent mode ba BT pag sa usb?
[17:20] <compromised> BT?
[17:20] <arscariosus> hindi ko pa kasi na try
[17:20] <compromised> bluetooth?
[17:20] <Craw^> arscariosus, BackTrack?
[17:20] <Craw^> lol compromised
[17:20] <arscariosus> Craw^, yup
[17:20] <compromised> me bluetooth po sa ubuntu
[17:20] <arscariosus> compromised, BT5 sorry
[17:21] <compromised> nde na kailangna ng drivers
[17:21] <Craw^> arscariosus, spare USB lang kelangan mo
[17:21] <compromised> bluetooth 5
[17:21] <Craw^> lol compromised
[17:21] <compromised> anu ba yung bt
[17:21] <Craw^> BackTrack!
[17:21] <compromised> wag niyo e shortcut
[17:21] <arscariosus> Craw^, pero pwede yung yung mag HD space sa usb?
[17:21]  * compromised na hilo
[17:21] <compromised> lol
[17:21] <arscariosus> yung pwede ako mag install?
[17:21] <Craw^> langya compromised tumatawa ako mag-isa dito lol
[17:21] <compromised> haha
[17:22] <compromised> kau din kc eh
[17:22] <Craw^> arscariosus, not sure pero sa nabasa ko about BT parang hindi yata
[17:22] <Craw^> kasi designed siya for pentesting
[17:22] <compromised> technical kau sa mga terms
[17:22] <Craw^> lol
[17:22] <arscariosus> compromised, backtrack is an infosec distro based on ubuntu
[17:22] <compromised> pasensya na nde ako maka cope up
[17:22] <arscariosus> pentest distro yata
[17:23] <compromised> ah
[17:23] <arscariosus> may classmate kasi ako ahead sa infosec stuff sa min at sobrang naamaze ako
[17:23] <compromised> dami niyo talaga alam sa infosec
[17:23] <Craw^> compromised, http://www.offensive-security.com diyan mo basahin about BT
[17:23] <arscariosus> hindi noobs lang ako actually
[17:23] <Craw^> ako din noob
[17:23] <Craw^> actually mas baguhan pa ako sa noob
[17:23] <arscariosus> oks ako sa dev at algo pero sa infosec stuff wala ako olats hahaha
[17:24] <arscariosus> sir Craw^, i find that hard to believe
[17:24] <arscariosus> hahaha
[17:25] <Craw^> ok lang, ako din eh.