[00:13] <cmaloney> that isn't what I'd call it
[00:13] <cmaloney> something something gtfo canonical
[00:14] <Scary_Guy> #debian-us-mi then?  Oh LOL
[00:14] <Scary_Guy> I say we just use #mugorg for this since it's not getting much other use anyway and already exists.
[00:15] <Scary_Guy> Also, one less line in my server/channel buffer.
[00:16] <Scary_Guy> Speaking of, when can we start doing in person meetings again?  I miss those :(
[00:20] <Scary_Guy> "error: cannot remove "core20": snap "core20" is not removable: snap is being used by snap firefox." No, no it is not, let me do the thing, why won't you let me do the thing?
[00:20] <Scary_Guy> I also just removed Firefox
[02:03] <cmaloney> Unfortunately I'm not in the position to do in-person anymore
[02:05] <cmaloney> And our last meeting had more folks outside of the area than in the area
[02:05] <cmaloney> I think there's still someone supporting Firefox as a .dev
[02:17] <Scary_Guy> oof
[02:18] <cmaloney> .deb, rather
[02:30] <Scary_Guy> Found a thing.  Starting apps as root is much faster than as my user account for whatever reason.
[02:30] <Scary_Guy> Also if they start under an already running app like Steam
[02:30] <Scary_Guy> Terminals start up instantly too
[02:33] <cmaloney> Yeah, once things are cached it's fine
[02:33] <cmaloney> but it's that first start
[03:01] <Scary_Guy> But why is it so slow?
[03:02] <Scary_Guy> Takes like 20 seconds to start the app
[03:27] <cmaloney> If it's a snap then it's having to start the container
[10:33] <Scary_Guy> Well it's not since I ripped that system out as much as I possibly could.
[15:37] <jrwren> starting a linux container takes microseconds unless there is more going on.
[15:37] <jrwren> tis just a few function calls.
[15:37] <jrwren> syscalls I mean


[06:29] <mac_v> DanRabbit: ping
[14:55] <arvind_k> hi, the new notify-osd  doesnt work properly, the bubble comes in the centre of the screen.even though its been fixed in launchpad its not being fixed upstream, why is it so?
[14:55] <maxb> What is the rationale for changing the location of notify-osd in Karmic?
[14:55] <arvind_k> maxb, look into LP
[14:56] <arvind_k> maxb, to fix it... and i really dont understand why notifications must come in centre of the screen
[15:00] <maxb> I don't think LP is the answer here. This is not a bug, it's the designers (from my perspective) changing things without adequate consideration for the users.
[15:29] <mac_v> maxb: the discussion is ging on in ayatana mailing list about this
[15:29] <mac_v> going*
[15:33] <mac_v> arvind_k: ^


[03:17] <meth> hi
[03:19] <meth> somebody alive?
[06:07] <caravena> Hello!
[06:07] <BFTD> hi
[06:07] <caravena> I problem with my hot-key, how to get keycodes? my report -> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8844
[06:08] <caravena> I read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HotkeyResearch and not work for my.
[06:09] <caravena> BFTD: ?
[06:09] <caravena> :- )
[06:10] <BFTD> yeah, no clue


[00:03] <poolie> biab
[00:12] <Stavros> hello
[00:12] <Stavros> how can i convert a bzr repo to a git repo by dpushing with bzr-git?
[00:14] <jelmer> Stavros, hi
[00:14] <Stavros> jelmer: hey jelmer
[00:14] <jelmer> Stavros, didn't I help you do that last week ? :)
[00:14] <Stavros> you did :(
[00:14] <Stavros> i'm missing a step now
[00:14] <Stavros> i did git init and git init --bare and dpushed to it
[00:14] <jelmer> you need a bzr init as well
[00:14] <Stavros> but i keep getting "/mydir" is not a branch
[00:14] <Stavros> ah
[00:15] <Stavros> that was it, thanks
[00:15] <Stavros> bzr init --git
[00:17] <jelmer> git init /tmp/foo; bzr init /tmp/foo; bzr dpush /tmp/foo
[00:17] <jelmer> there's no need for the --git
[00:18] <Stavros> ah, yes
[00:18] <jelmer> (if you're creating a branch in a git repository we always create a git branch)
[00:18] <Stavros> but if you don't have a git repo in there, you can do bzr init --git and it still works
[00:18] <Stavros> ah
[01:03] <spiv> Good morning.
[02:50] <poolie> hi spiv
[03:02] <spiv> Hi poolie
[03:07] <poolie> hi, how are you?
[03:08] <poolie> spiv could you be pilot this week?
[03:10] <spiv> Sure!
[03:11] <poolie> thanks; i updated the rota
[07:28] <vila> hi all !
[07:29] <spiv> Hi vila
[07:29] <vila> spiv: _o/
[07:31] <poolie> hi there vila, spiv
[07:31] <poolie> vila, what's up for you today?
[07:32] <vila> poolie: config :)
[07:33] <poolie> the whole hog? :)
[07:39] <vila> poolie: nope, a minimal set (excluding locking/minimal IOs/option registry) but enough to look at deplying/migrating
[07:39] <vila> deploying
[07:40] <poolie> you know i'd really like a new caller ui :)
[07:40] <vila> poolie: just tell me which ;)
[07:41] <poolie> sorry, api, not ui
[07:42] <vila> poolie: ... or let's discuss it on my proposal, I think we are roughly on the same page so it shouldn't be too far from what you're expecting
[07:42] <vila> poolie: of course if you speak earlier it would be even closer :D
[07:42] <poolie> :) i might still have a mail starred to reply to
[07:42] <poolie> i have a call in 20m but perhaps i can do it after that
[07:42] <poolie> i thought i did reply
[07:43] <vila> poolie: I'm processing my inbox so I may not have seen it yet
[07:44] <vila> oh, hmm, just noticed the PP update, I won't be able to do it the whole week (vacations), who should I switch with ?
[07:44] <poolie> i haven't replied after your last mail
[07:44] <poolie> whoever
[07:44] <poolie> you're not up this week
[07:44] <poolie> can swap with me i think
[07:45] <poolie> for some reason i really prefer .config_stack; i feel there's already going to be some risk of confusion about particular files vs stacks
[07:45] <poolie> maybe not though
[07:45] <poolie> why do you put "sections (read-only and mutable)" first?
[07:47] <vila> poolie: I'm talking about *next* week, and I can't switch with you either as I won't be there from 2011-04-13 to 2011-04-27 ;)
[07:47] <vila> poolie: bottom-up
[07:49] <vila> poolie: TDD is easier for me when implementing from the lower levels first
[07:53] <vila> poolie: regarding .config vs .config_stack, the only cases where you want to use the config file directly is to modify it and even there you could do it via the stack, so somehow, devs shouldn't manipulate config files directly, only the user should really see them as an entry point (like command-line options or env vars)
[07:55] <vila> poolie: I can be persuaded otherwise but I think that if we change the API now, it's to also change the mental model, and configs should be seen as stacks rather than files
[07:56] <spiv> vila: are they always files?  I would expect that e.g. bzr-svn branches may provide some config-like values without having a config file.
[07:57] <poolie> ok
[07:57] <vila> spiv: indeed, they are stacks built from stores (the first store will be based on ConfigObj) but other stores can be implemented as long as they can give us sections
[07:57] <poolie> actually i don't strongly prefer it anymore ; i did on friday but not now
[07:59] <vila> really, I don't think I'm reinventing wheels here, just shuffling the design a bit around what we already do while getting rid of many hackish parts
[07:59] <poolie> i think so too
[07:59] <poolie> i can see why afc thought it was complex
[08:00] <vila> it may appears I'm not, but really, that's my intent
[08:00] <poolie> i do still kind of feel smaller steps are possible
[08:00] <vila> how small ?
[08:00] <vila> or rather,
[08:01] <vila> at which point does the cost of wiring the smaller steps become higher than leapfrogging a couple of them ?
[08:01] <AfC> U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER small!
[08:01] <vila> AfC: :)
[08:01] <poolie> for example just changing the internal api not to construct global configs all over
[08:02] <vila> ha, and how do you ensure you won't have to do that twice ?
[08:02] <vila> or do it without adding stuff we'll delete later ?
[08:07] <poolie> i don't
[08:07] <poolie> it's a risk
[08:07] <poolie> on the other side you have to weigh the risk of doing preparatory stuff that's not actually delivering value yet
[08:08] <poolie> so if i was reading that list properly, what's first?
[08:08] <vila> poolie: you mean section/abstract store/stacks ?
[08:09] <poolie> yes
[08:09] <vila> so section are first
[08:10] <vila> I already have some stuff tested/coded for sections and stacks, I blocked a bit on store Friday for the locking part, so I wrote some thoughts about it and will focus on using the existing scheme
[08:11] <poolie> so just to make sure i understand
[08:11] <poolie> when you say section, this is about letting the stack choose to use just one section from inside a particular file?
[08:11] <vila> s/wrote some thoughts/wrote some thoughts about the new locking scheme allowing allowing minimal IOs/
[08:12] <poolie> like in looking at  locations.conf it'll pick out the relevant sections and slot them in?
[08:12] <vila> a selection of sections yes, like matching_sections does today for locations.conf
[08:12] <vila> but allowing that for any store
[08:13] <vila> nothing fancy either for now, only what exist: globs (which is mainly used as just paths today)
[08:15] <vila> oooh, col*l*ocated !
[08:15] <vila> is that indeed the correct spelling ?
[08:16] <poolie> i think there would be one
[08:16] <poolie> co-located
[08:17] <vila> hmm, so using 'colocated' is just stripping the '-' in identifiers ?
[08:17] <vila> err, as in python identifiers or paths
[08:17] <poolie> yes i think so
[08:17] <poolie> did i spell it the other way somewhere?
[08:17] <vila> k, will do that then
[08:17] <vila> poolie: not you, ispell
[08:18] <vila> (0) co located (1) co-located (2) collocated
[08:18] <poolie> i know of 'collated'
[08:19] <poolie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collocation
[08:21] <poolie> interesting
[08:21] <vila> right, this page only used 'located' once in collocated, I can go with co-located if you prefer
[08:22] <spiv> I think that's jargon that isn't referring to a particularly similar concept
[08:22] <vila> or may be we just don't care :D
[08:22] <poolie> which page?
[08:22] <vila>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collocation
[08:22] <spiv> And that page links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocation_%28disambiguation%29 which links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocation_%28business%29
[08:22] <poolie> "go with co-located if you prefer" where?
[08:23] <poolie> vila, can you either take, or assign to yourself, one or more bugs about config
[08:23] <vila> poolie: certainly
[08:23] <vila> poolie: thanks for the reminder, I should have done that long ago
[08:23] <spiv> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colocation suggests that with or without the hyphen are both used.
[08:24] <vila> spiv: excellent ! There is even (and indeed) http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colocated
[08:25] <vila> jelmer: hi
[08:25] <poolie> vila, for our stuff, 'colocated
[08:26] <vila> poolie: yup, I've already reverted to that
[08:28] <spiv> jelmer: I just gave you a review, of sorts, finally: https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr/move-interbranch-fetch2/+merge/54958
[08:48] <poolie> vila, so at the end of this, what sections will we have
[08:48] <poolie> just locations, or also others?
[08:50] <vila> sections anywhere and their definition should be file specific, but for bzr itself, urls (as of today) for bazaar.conf/locations.conf (or only paths/globs there) and probably relative paths for others
[08:51] <vila> some plugins may want to use different schemes for sections (window names for GUIs for example ?)
[08:52] <vila> or hosts for authentication.conf (which uses arbitrary section names today and relies on their definition order rather than matching)
[08:53] <vila> I don't intend to modify authentications.conf until we need too though
[08:54] <vila> but the point is that sections are a different way to look at partitioning the options and it's best to leave that part open if you can
[08:54] <vila> err if we can
[08:57] <jam> morning vila, getting yourself out of PP rotation I see ?
[08:57] <vila> jam: hehe, pushing down the stack yeah :D
[08:57] <vila> sorry I didn't realize that earlier
[08:58] <vila> poolie: by the way, stacks were somehow implemented in bzrlib/rules.py too
[09:09] <poolie> ok
[09:09] <poolie> i might stop for today
[09:13]  * vila cries, compiz shortcuts gone again....
[09:55]  * spiv stops for the day
[11:59] <jelmer_> vila is skipping patch pilot duty ? :)
[12:00] <vila> jelmer_: yup, and to add insult to injury, he's taking vacations, what a shame :D
[12:01] <jelmer> (-:
[12:17] <DeeLay> I have a feature branch that has been merged into trunk, I need to undo that merge continue working on the feature branch, and then re-merge the feature branch back into trunk at some point in the future.  Any suggestions on the best approach?
[12:35] <vila> DeeLay: depends on two things: is the trunk public, do you still have your pristine feature branch
[12:35] <vila> if you still have your feature branch before the merge, just keep working on it
[12:36] <vila> you'll merge it to trunk later, only additional changes will appear on trunk at that point
[12:36] <vila> for the trunk, there are two ways: either it's public and people already have pulled from it so you need to merge a reverse of your changes
[12:37] <DeeLay> vila: trunk is not public, but it is the branch we release from.  The feature got cancelled at the last minute, so we need to pull it from trunk, so that other features can be released without needing to do cherry picked releases
[12:37] <vila> it's not public or nobody had pull from it (always hard to ensure but) you can just push --overwrite -r<revno-before-the-merge>
[12:37] <vila> s/^/if/
[12:38] <vila> DeeLay: is the above clear enough or do you need more details ?
[12:39] <DeeLay> vila: yeah I think that makes sense, I'll give that a go, thanks
[12:39] <vila> DeeLay: if your merge is the last commit on trunk, you can also 'bzr uncommit' there and 'bzr revert [--no-backup]' or 'bzr clean-tree' to get rid of the *~ files created by revert
[12:40] <DeeLay> vila: unfortunately not, and the last time I uncommitted a merge, it didn't re-merge the changes later
[12:41] <vila> DeeLay: right, so you have other commits on top of your "faulty" merge, more care needed
[12:42] <vila> DeeLay: you probably need to revert this merge explicitly then 'bzr merge -r<revno>..<revno>-1' <revno> being your merge
[12:43] <vila> DeeLay: and commit the result with a message explaining the issue for future references if some other dev built on top of your merge *including* parts you wanted to remove,
[12:44] <vila> DeeLay: you *should* be able to detect such cases when you merge the reverted change, but evil is in the details...
[12:44] <DeeLay> vila: yeah that was my first attempt, but that means merging trunk into the feature branch (to keep it upto date) would remove the changes from the feature branch
[12:45] <vila> DeeLay: no, you can do that on the trunk itself
[12:45] <vila> DeeLay: it will be clearer there for everybody involved (hopefully)
[12:46] <DeeLay> yeah, that's what I mean, so if I bzr merge -r <revno>..<revno-1> in trunk, I can effectively remove the changes introduced by the feature branch
[12:46] <DeeLay> in the meantime dev work will continue, so i will need the feature branch to keep up to date with other changes being merged to trunk
[12:47] <vila> DeeLay: now, on your feature branch, you can add more changes and merge the overall in trunk again when needed, you may encounter conflicts then though
[12:47] <DeeLay> but from the feature branch, bzr merge trunk, will remove the changes that the feature branch introduced to trunk from the actual feature branch
[12:47] <vila> haa, that, yeah
[12:48] <vila> well, the sooner you merge trunk to your feature branch, the sooner you'll address the possible conflicts
[12:48] <DeeLay> also tried bzr revert -r <revno-1> in trunk, which gets round the commit of the reverse merge issue
[12:48] <DeeLay> but in that scenario, re-merging the the feature branch comes back with "nothing to do"
[12:49] <vila> DeeLay: well, revert will also revert all subsequent commits so probably not what you want
[12:50] <vila> DeeLay: the reverse merge is called a cherry-pick, it doesn't track the ancestry so it finds no new *revision* to merge
[12:50] <DeeLay> vila: yeah, but I can live with that if it worked, as the other changes could be re-merged.  The essential problem is that trunk will always remember that the reverted commits happened, so it won't re-merge them
[12:50] <vila> DeeLay: that's why you need to merge trunk again after that into your feature branch: to ensure that your branch carries the right changes
 but from the feature branch, bzr merge trunk, will remove the changes that the feature branch introduced to trunk from the actual feature branch
[12:51] <maxb> There's a way to avoid this, let me explain:
[12:51] <maxb> Step 1: Merge the revision of trunk immediately prior to the revert commit as normal
[12:51] <maxb> Step 2: Merge the revert commit and *only* the revert commit from trunk, and do "bzr revert .", and commit that
[12:52] <maxb> At this point you now have a feature branch which says "I know trunk reverted these changes, but *I* am going to keep them"
[12:53] <maxb> And I believe they should even merge sensibly back into trunk when you have another attempt to land the feature.
[12:53] <jelmer> vila: have you heard anything more about the SRU?
[12:54] <vila> jelmer: no :-/
[12:54] <DeeLay> maxb: if I merge trunk, then revert, there will be nothing to commit, won't there??
[12:54] <maxb> Note carefully: "bzr revert .", not "bzr revert"
[12:54] <DeeLay> maxb: ah, nice
[12:54] <maxb> This will revert all the tree changes, whilst keeping the "I have merged revision X" metadata
[13:02] <DeeLay> maxb: that totally worked, reverse cherry picked from trunk, merged trunk to feature branch, and then tried a dry run of re-merging the feature branch into trunk and the changes come across again
[13:02] <DeeLay> thanks guys
[13:41] <idnar> so, this is sort of related to the conversation from earlier
[13:41] <idnar> -c 123 is equivalent to -r 122..123; is there any equivalent to -r 123..122 ?
[13:41] <jam1> idnar: no shorthand form, though X..before:X works for all types of X
[13:41] <idnar> yeah... bleh
[13:42] <idnar> was writing an automated script, and my revisionspec is already 10 pages long :P
[13:43] <maxb> Yes, a backwards -c would be very useful
[13:44] <maxb> Subversion uses a negative number for this, but that's already taken in bzr. Took me a while to un-train my fingers from that one.
[14:15] <jam> vila, jelmer: testing question. I'm working on bug #740932, and I want to test that we cache the correct packed-stat value even though Transform does stuff like renaming the file after it is created.
[14:16] <jam> The specific problem is that the time to create and rename the file runs in under 1s
[14:16] <jam> which is the granularity of our sha cache test.
[14:17] <vila> touch the file with a specific time ?
[14:17] <jam> I'm trying to find a tasteful way to test it
[14:17] <jam> vila: so the point is that Transform is creating the file
[14:17] <jam> how do I touch it
[14:17] <jam> (where/when?)
[14:17] <vila> from the test ? hmm or from some hook triggered by a test decorated class ?
[14:18] <vila> that's not the first time I'd like to better control the clock, but here you want to observe a fs behaviour which is trickier
[14:18] <jam> vila: yep
[14:18] <jam> it does call os.rename
[14:18] <jam> which I could hack into
[14:18] <jam> but that is pretty ugly
[14:18] <vila> how about reducing the 1s to 1us ?
[14:18] <vila> for tests I mean
[14:18] <jam> vila:  not optional
[14:19] <vila> make it so :)
[14:19] <jam> Dirstate's packed-stat is integers only
[14:19] <vila> ouch
[14:19] <vila> hmm
[14:19] <vila> how about changing its scale then
[14:19] <vila> again, for tests
[14:20] <vila> or may be you should have different tests for the different effects you want to observe
[14:20] <jam> vila: I *really* don't think we want to be hacking into compiled code and adding if checks in our tight-loop functions
[14:21] <jam> vila: the issue is that in the real world, it can take several seconds from the time we start creating files until we've finished the last one. which gives us plenty of files whose state we can cache
[14:21] <jam> but we have to be careful because we also rename the top-level ones right before we finish
[14:21] <jam> I wonder if I need to worry, because that rename is probably never going to be outside our 3-second window
[14:21] <vila> what do you want to test ?
[14:22] <jam> it doesn't help that Dirstate caches's its threshold time to the first time it checks
[14:22] <jam> vila: this is what I have so far
[14:22] <jam> at the point where we have Transform.create_file
[14:22] <jam> I store the sha1 and stat value of the file
[14:23] <jam> at the point that we have finished creating all of these files
[14:23] <jam> I then call Tree._observed_sha1 for everything I cached
[14:23] <jam> there is one step inbetween, where Transform renames all the files into place
[14:23] <jam> thus changing their 'ctime'
[14:23] <jam> but we could be saving the sha1 value with the new ctime
[14:23] <vila> huh ? renaming change the ctime of the containing dir not of files itself right ?
[14:24] <vila> err, mtime
[14:24] <jam> vila: renaming the *file* changes the ctime of the *file*
[14:24] <vila> ctime as 'creation time' ??
[14:24] <jam> vila: stat
[14:24] <jam> ctime == last meta-info changed time
[14:24] <jam> on *windows* == creation time
[14:24] <jam> on Linux something different
[14:24] <jam> (we've talked about not paying attention to ctime, but we currently do)
[14:25] <vila> and you want to avoid calculating the sha1  for files that were only renamed ?
[14:27] <jam> vila: *today* after doing 'bzr co' the next 'bzr st' will re-read every file to check if it is up to date, and re-sha the content
[14:27] <jam> which is affecting eg linaro, because it takes >1m to re-sha the whole tree
[14:27] <jam> so bzr branch-for-feature ; bzr st; bzr commit; takes longer than it should
[14:28] <vila> yeah, I've read your analysis
[14:28] <vila> and you want to avoid calculating the sha1  for files that were only renamed ?
[14:28] <vila> or touched by the transform
[14:28] <jam> vila: I already have code that handles the 'create_content' part
[14:28] <vila> rhaa, calculate only for files modified, yeah, create_content
[14:28] <jam> I can easily add code that handles the "and the files are renamed into place" part
[14:28] <jam> vila: but I don't know how to test it
[14:29] <vila> ISTM you're trying to test from too high, get closer to the code that you want to test
[14:29] <jam> note, I just realized my changes need some updating, but I have a handle on that
[14:29] <jam> vila: so step through TreeTransform.apply inlined into a test case and assert the dict values?
[14:29] <jam> I really don't want to rewrite the apply function
[14:30] <jam> because of drift, etc.
[14:30] <vila> err, no, I thought about where you establish that a file need to be re-hashed
[14:32] <jam> vila: well, with my first fix, the test accidentally succeeds, because the file doesn't look like it needs to be rehashed
[14:32] <jam> because the timestamp didn't actually tick over 1 second
[14:32] <jam> because the 'rename' happened within 1s of the creation
[14:32] <jam> which doesn't happen in reality
[14:32] <jam> because creation can take a minute for large trees
[14:33] <vila> because you exercise too much code to properly test what you care about (is what I'm trying to explain :--/)
[14:33] <vila> if you go closer to tiny part you care about, you should be able to be more precise
[14:34] <vila> or is this code inlined in a compiled extension ?
[14:34] <jam> vila: the code that compares to see if a file is up to date goes through packed_stat which truncates to 1s resolution.
[14:34] <jam> (we compare packed_stats)
[14:34] <vila> inject them
[14:35] <vila> you're telling me that you can't have a test with sleep(3s) right ?
[14:36] <vila> so you have to change at least one constraint succeed :) The clock seem too hard, so that leaves faking the data based on this clock
[14:36] <jam> vila: I could detect it with a sleep(1)
[14:36] <vila> well, sleep(1) is bad :)
[14:36] <jam> or hacking os.rename to add a os.utime to mutate mtime to fake the ctime change
[14:36] <vila> sleep() is bad
[14:36] <jam> since you can't directly touch ctime
[14:37] <LeoNerd> I'm not sure you're -guaranteed- to notice a ctime tick using sleep(1)
[14:37] <LeoNerd> sleep(1) asks to sleep for no more than 1000ms.
[14:37] <jam> LeoNerd: while round(time.time()) == orig_time: time.sleep(...)
[14:38] <vila> as long as it's explained in the test *that* sounds better but involving os.rename() in your test seems like enlarging the scope of the tested code too
[14:39] <vila> jam: said otherwise: you seem to be writing a blackbox test when a unit test could be more precise
[14:39] <vila> "blackbox" with quotes
[14:42] <vila> jam: blackbox as in: not allowing to observe directly what you want to test
[14:42] <jam> vila: testing that 'bzrlib.transform.build_tree" has the sha hash values correct doesn't seem particularly 'black box' to me.
[14:42] <jam> and the lifetime of the caching has to be across the TreeTransform.apply stage.
[14:43] <jam> because you don't want to try to save the sha1 until you're done, to give it the best chance to be outside the 3s window
[14:43] <vila> jam: given that this function is more than 100 lines... it's hard to *not* consider it as an opaque box with a lot of side effects
[14:44] <vila> jam: the aim is good but it doesn't mean you can't test a building block
[14:45] <vila> ow, and it uses a 50 lines _create_files() too...
[14:46] <jam> vila:  a fair amount of it is if blocks that you can avoid. by not setting accelerator_tree, etc.
[14:47] <vila> right, I'm beginning to feel your pain :-/
[14:48] <vila> jam: can't you split out the part you're interested in ?
[14:49] <vila> jam: how many existing direct tests for _build_tree ?
[14:49] <jam> vila: by re-writing Transform.apply
[14:49] <vila> jam: good luck with that :-(
[14:49] <jam> and I still don't really know how to handle making sure we get the correct time for top-level files
[14:49] <vila> jam: anything smaller ?
[14:49] <jam> anyway, I have a couple other bits to fix now anyway.
[14:50] <vila> jam: you may be just be facing a hole in the test suite :-/
[14:50] <jam> vila: so I could fake TreeTransform state, call one of the functions on it, and assert the after state
[14:50] <jam> but TT state is pretty big, too
[14:50] <vila> jam: a known one for that matter
[14:51] <vila> ok, so, best effort would indeed be to write blackbox tests here :-/ Sadly that means adding more tech debt...
[14:52] <vila> what {worries me|makes me sad} is that you end up talking about TT when you care about a packed_stat which TT doesn't even know about
[14:55] <vila> jam: from the you-wish-you-did-it-long-ago dept: use an in-memory fs and control its clock ! :-}
[15:20] <jelmer> jam: hi
[15:21] <jelmer> jam: do you know how significant the memory usage improvements between 2.2.3 and 2.3.1 are in terms of fetch performance ?
[15:22] <jam> jelmer: you'd have to read the release-notes. I don't think it is huge, though.
[15:22] <jam> jelmer: stuff that accesses all chk pages can be quite a bit cheaper, I guess
[15:23] <jam> jelmer: "bzr ls -R" dropped from 400MB to 250MB, which is roughly equivalent to fetching a reasonable amount of data
[15:23] <jelmer> jam: ah
[15:24] <jelmer> jam: the fix you did after the gcc performance analysis hasn't ended up in a release yet right?
[15:25] <jam> jelmer: that is the "iter_entries_by_dir()" change?
[15:25] <jam> I don't think that has been released
[15:26] <jam> jelmer: actually, according to release-notes it is in 2.4b1
[15:26] <jelmer> ah, cool
[15:35] <vila> jam, jelmer: according to the https://launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/2.4b1 changelog, it is not
[15:35] <vila> jam: did I copy the wrong changelog or did you merged in the wrong section ?
[15:36] <jam> vila: lp only counts things that you target the bug to
[15:36] <vila> jam: I'm talking about the changelog the RM copied at the time the release was frozen
[15:36] <jam> vila: ah
[15:37] <jam> it landed in 5730
[15:37] <jam> it certainly could have been merged into the wrong section
[15:37] <jam> since that happens *by default*
[15:37] <vila> and 2.4b1 is 5727
[15:38] <vila> jam: no worries, just wanted to make sure jelmer got the right stuff
[15:39] <jam> vila: so I found a better way to poke at it. Use 'os.utime' between the time that we call create_file, and the time that we call .apply
[15:39] <jam> it is actually asserting something that doesn't happen, but it would catch a real bug
[19:52] <barry> i'm having a problem trying push a branch to launchpad. it seems like bzr and hg are fighting each other for some weird reason.  on natty.  i get:
[19:52] <barry> bzr: ERROR: No such file: /~barry/mailman/restusers/.hg/requires
[19:53] <barry> but this is a bzr branch in a shared repo and hg shouldn't enter into it!
[19:53] <barry> (there is no .hg directory in this directory)
[19:53] <barry> i do have bzr-hg installed however
[19:53] <jelmer> hi barry
[19:54] <jelmer> barry: That's bzr-hg, although that bug should be fixed
[19:54] <jelmer> barry: how do you have bzr-hg installed?
[19:54] <barry> hi jelmer.  apt-get install bzr-hg
[19:56] <jelmer> barry: the one that was synced today, or from earlier?
[19:56] <jelmer> barry: can you give the bzr-hg in the bzr daily builds PPA a try?
[19:57] <barry> jelmer: from a few days ago.  apt-get upgrading now :)  i'll let you know if that fixes it
[20:03] <bpierre> hi
[20:04] <bpierre> is the PQM version used by the Bazaar team the one from lp:pqm?
[20:08] <barry> jelmer: that did the trick.  thanks!
[20:09] <jelmer> bpierre: approximately
[20:09] <bpierre> jelmer: :P, patched?
[20:09] <bpierre> I have been looking into it
[20:09] <bpierre> I managed to make it somewhat work
[20:09] <jelmer> bpierre: To be honest, I think we're just using lp:pqm but I'm not sure
[20:10] <bpierre> ok
[20:10] <bpierre> so do you know if your version work by making a direct lightweight checkout of lp for each merge?
[20:10] <bpierre> I see no activity on the lp code page for the project
[20:11] <jelmer> I'm pretty sure pqm creates a full branch, and that's what we're seeing too
[20:11] <bpierre> and a number of branches marked in developement and not merged...
[20:11] <bpierre> so branch lp:bzr, with tree, and then merge?
[20:11] <jelmer> bpierre: pqm is pretty much dead upstream; bzr (and launchpad too, IIUC) are looking to move to tarmac long term
[20:12] <bpierre> tarmac?
[20:12] <bpierre> ok, I'll look into it
[20:12] <bpierre> PQM, I add to make a number of patches, and still less than optimal ;(
[20:13] <jelmer> lp:tarmac
[20:13] <bpierre> yeah, seems to be tied to launchpad ;(
[20:35] <lifeless> jelmer: pqm's not dead, just not being changed unless there is a defect
[20:35] <lifeless> bpierre: yes, we run trunk of lp:pqm without patches
[20:38] <bpierre> lifeless: ok, so unless I missed something, everytime a merge is attempted, pqm does a lightweight checkout of the target branch, right?
[20:38] <lifeless> bpierre: yes, clean slate each time
[20:38] <bpierre> I see no support for caching
[20:39] <bpierre> so for a big working tree, a lot of network traffic
[20:39] <lifeless> bpierre: so, what you can do is use a local tree and set the published_to option
[20:39] <lifeless> s/tree/branch/
[20:39] <lifeless> it will checkout locally (no network traffic) and do a push afterwards
[20:39] <bpierre> mmm, but I still need to update this local tree somehow, no?
[20:40] <lifeless> as long as pqm is the way things are landed this works fine; if you manually push to $wherever, then you need to do a manual push to that local branch too
[20:40] <lifeless> it would be quite reasonable to file a bug asking for a more transparent cache facility
[20:41] <bpierre> ok, I also ran into an issue with the way a working tree name is constructed, plus ploblems with encoding
[20:41] <bpierre> I also patched it for merge directive support
[20:42] <bpierre> (there is already a branch in lp, but with conflicts, and another I did not see until after making the patch)
[20:42] <bpierre> anyway, I wonder if the support for other VCSs is of interest?
[20:42] <lifeless> do you have some tests in your branch? I hesitate to incorporate changes which can break silently on future changes
[20:42] <bpierre> I understand completly
[20:42] <lifeless> the other vcs support is maintained by other vcs folk
[20:42] <bpierre> is it used?
[20:43] <lifeless> it used to be :) I have no idea now.
[20:43] <lifeless> theres no requirement that new features work on all vcses
[20:43] <bpierre> because I add to bypass some abstractions, to support merge directive inlined in a mail
[20:43] <lifeless> ah
[20:43] <bpierre> plus the code looks complicated
[20:43] <bpierre> at least to me :P
[20:44] <lifeless> it is, it started as a simple script
[20:44] <lifeless> and gew
[20:44] <lifeless> *grew*
[20:44] <bpierre> the lack of documentation also does not help
[20:44] <lifeless> code level docs?
[20:44] <lifeless> there is a docbook manual for users
[20:44] <bpierre> yeah, I'm starting to think it might be simpler to just start from scratch
[20:45] <bpierre> I'm problably way understimating the time it will take :D
[20:45] <lifeless> thats the usual thing
[20:45] <bpierre> the docbook manual in the code is not really helpful
[20:45] <bpierre> I add to look at the code and experiment
[20:46] <lifeless> so, caching transparently should be easy - have an option, say, 'cache_repository' and when thats set use bzrlib apis to cache the tip revision of the branch
[20:46] <lifeless> construct a temp branch in it during the merge - a few lines of code
[20:46] <bpierre> yeah, a few lines there, and few lines somewhere else... :P
[20:47] <lifeless> for your merge directive support; if it doesn't break other vcses, and you wouldn't mind if I broke it by mistake fixing other things, then it doesn't /need/ tests.
[20:47] <bpierre> I can't help to notice that every plugin that need to merge dupplicate parts of the bzrlib code for the merge builtin
[20:48] <lifeless> yeah
[20:48] <bpierre> *from the
[20:48] <bpierre> one question about the bzrlib API: is there a way to get the canonical URL for a branch?
[20:49] <bpierre> the only way I found is by opening it and looking at base
[20:49] <bpierre> what I mean is correctly expand lp:bzr to bzr+ssh://....
[20:49] <bpierre> or expand my local bookmark bm:something to the real URL
[20:49] <bpierre> ?
[20:51] <maxb> bpierre: bzrlib.directory_service.directories.dereference(url) ?
[20:51] <bpierre> maxb: ok, I'll try
[21:58] <ps_jinx> spiv: I am getting this bug http://psjinx.pastebin.com/yxS2PNGm .. what can be the issues
[22:00] <jelmer> ps_jinx: That's a known bug related to proxies; it's fixed in newer versions of bzr.
[22:18] <ps_jinx> jelmer: but I'm able to pull the code successfully
[22:19] <jelmer> ps_jinx: that's a different code path
[22:19] <ps_jinx> ok
[23:19] <poolie> hi all


[02:40] <techman2> hi all
[03:03] <techman2> I was wondering if someone would have a sec to double check my wiki edits?
[10:17] <rww> Hello! I just wrote a patch to fix bug 315650 and attached it. 1) Can someone check and see if I did things right? 2) Do I need to do anything else after attaching patches to get them applied?
[10:17] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 315650 in xubuntu-docs "xubuntu-docs, add application wrong location for menuitem" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315650
[19:41] <mdke> rww: patch looks good, thanks. The only thing to do is to tag the bug with "patch" after attaching, that way someone should look at it shortly, I hope
[19:41] <mdke> rww: I've added the tag
[19:48] <rww> mdke: Thanks :)
[19:48] <mdke> rww: thanks for the patch :)


[00:02] <raidandfade> howdy, me again! can't for the life of me get centos8 to learn network settings from cloud-init - i can see it reading network settings from openstack and it even has the sysconfig/ifcfg configs (apart from accept_ra which is false despite being set to true) - but the interface is still just dhcp.. additionally, there's ens3 interfaces lying around
[00:02] <raidandfade> that dont seem to be doing anything?
[01:07] <minimal> raidandfade: have you tried enabling debugging for cloud-init so it will log more detail of what it is doing?
[01:07] <raidandfade> I haven't, admittedly. I had the same sort of behavior on centos7 as well but i worked around it by adding a bootcmd to restart the network service after cloud-init completed
[01:08] <raidandfade> same thing doesnt seem to work here
[01:12] <minimal> if you edit /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/05)logging.conf there are several "level=INFO" entries that you can change to "level=DEBUG" and then reboot
[01:14] <raidandfade> Stderr: Error: Nexthop has invalid gateway. - fun
[01:14] <raidandfade> looks like its not adding static routes with link scope?
[01:16] <raidandfade> i can't find any explanation of why ipv6 isn't being added though, or why it converts accept_ra to IPV6_FORCE_ACCEPT_RA=no
[01:17] <raidandfade> anything specific you want out of the log? im doing a search for "network" and it looks pretty similar to what i get out of debian with debugging
[01:19] <raidandfade> all the net configs look like what i expect them to be, and there's no errors when writing them either: util.py[DEBUG]: Writing to /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 - wb: [644] 272 bytes
[01:19] <minimal> raidandface: I've only used static IPv6 so far myself
[01:20] <minimal> are you using v1 or v2 network YAML format? I tend to use v2
[01:20] <raidandfade> the ip address is static, it's just accept_ra that is anomalous in our setup
[01:21] <raidandfade> centos8 only supports sysconfig as far as i can tell, so v1?
[01:21] <raidandfade> the datasource is openstack
[01:21] <minimal> I'm using eni with NoCloud
[01:21] <raidandfade> ill give it a shot with eni
[01:30] <minimal> think only Debian and Alpine (and possibly Ubuntu) support eni
[01:30] <raidandfade> yeah thats what i was thinking as well
[01:30] <raidandfade> eni is effectively ifupdown, which is replaced by networkmanager (nmcli) on centos8
[01:31] <raidandfade> oddly enough... rebooting the system fixed all the network issues?
[01:31] <raidandfade> it's accepting RA and has all ips
[01:32] <raidandfade> and the non-scoped routes from before have scopes now
[01:35] <minimal> perhaps the issue was only on 1st boot? typically during that it will have created the sysconfig stuff and then subsequent boots will use that file directly
[01:39] <raidandfade> odd
[16:14] <hffgbbbffd> Anyone possibly know why all my sudo commands timeout from cloud init but not other services? I googled around and saw some bugs in systemd and selinux, but I'm on all those updates versions.
[16:35] <holmanb> hffgbbbffd: what's your cloud-config?
[17:13] <hffgbbbffd> holmanb https://pastebin.com/EZy91zrV
[17:13] <hffgbbbffd> contents of /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[23:25] <henk> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/format.html AFAICT »make-mime subcommand takes pairs of (filename, “text/” mime subtype) separated by a colon« is phrased incorrectly. it should be something like »The make-mime subcommand’s option "-a" can be given multiple times and takes a pair of 'filename' and '“text/” mime subtype' separated by a colon«
[23:25] <henk> because the subcommand itself does not take pairs, it seems from the following example
[23:52] <minimal> henk: open an PR in the cloud-init github repo or raise bug on launchpad?


[00:51] <Snype> Myrtti, what you smoking buddy?
[01:00] <Flannel> IdleOne: That FB ban looks wrong.
[01:00] <Flannel> IdleOne: are you going to unban poor http? ;)
[01:00] <IdleOne> yup
[01:01] <IdleOne> ljl is aware of that bug
[01:01] <IdleOne> I believe he is going to work on it
[01:01] <IdleOne> keep an eye on Snype in #u if you can
[11:47] <LjL> the bug is with webchat, the only way i can be working on it is by removing the entire webchat handling
[11:47] <tomaw> is that the stuff being missing from gecos?
[11:48] <LjL> yes tomaw
[11:51] <tomaw> that should be fixed shortly
[11:52] <LjL> cool
[12:23] <tomaw> LjL: that should be fixed now
[12:24] <tomaw> expect to see people with wrong gecos for a few days though
[13:07] <LjL> ok
[13:18] <Pici> tomaw: thanks :)
[15:52] <genii> Have the netsplits been frequent today?
[15:53] <DJones> Not that I've noticed
[16:08] <genii> @comment 55646 Reviewed, recidivist, not lifted.
[17:25] <jbroome> calm your teats ubottu
[17:29] <DJones> Any particular reason for the netsplits
[17:32] <LjL> you're still wanting reasons for netsplits? i stopped caring like 4 years ago
[17:33] <jbroome> srsly
[17:34] <DJones> I was asking more to see whether it was another DDOS attempt, I did wonder if it was LjL's fault for asking about the ip address not appearing in webchat users addresses
[17:36] <LjL> last time a netsplit was my fault, it was 1997 and... wait, i never caused a netsplit, i just watched evil people do it as if it had been magic ;(
[17:44] <genii> I asked earlier because i didn't see any global notices/wallops
[21:54] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu-offtopic Endafy has been warned about being inflamatory and trying to make people react badly
[22:34] <genii> @comment 55771 Ad spam
[22:38] <genii> @comment 55772 Ad spam


[00:02] <macGerhard> hey guys, I'm running 8.04 on a server, fresh install, I can't sudo or su, it just stalls any ideas?
[00:04] <macGerhard> anyone?
[00:05] <teamcobra> is anyone here well-versed in the ways of imap maildir structure?
[00:05] <teamcobra> mac: url of the issue? (sorry, missed your question)
[00:06] <macGerhard> teamcobra: do you mean me?
[00:06] <teamcobra> yes
[00:06] <macGerhard> oh, ok :). I have a clean 8.04 install on a server, sudo nor su will work
[00:06] <macGerhard> did something change in 8.04?
[00:07] <teamcobra> woah...
[00:07] <macGerhard> I remember it working in the previous versions...
[00:07] <teamcobra> no, sudo should work... only for the first user you create
[00:07] <teamcobra> the others won't be in the sudoers list
[00:07] <macGerhard> yep, well I am the only user on the machine
[00:07] <macGerhard> created at install
[00:07] <teamcobra> su won't work until you assign a root passwd w/ sudo passwd (not recommended)
[00:07] <teamcobra> hrmmmm.....
[00:08] <macGerhard> could it be because of the hostname?
[00:08] <teamcobra> kind of a pickle, because you need to be root to edit /etc/sudoers ;p
[00:08] <macGerhard> yeah, pretty much
[00:08] <teamcobra> possibly, but that really shouldn't be happening
[00:08] <macGerhard> I can't even cat it or something
[00:08] <macGerhard> reboot?
[00:09] <teamcobra> yeh, looks almost like a reinstall :/
[00:09] <macGerhard> crap, root as well
[00:09] <macGerhard> hmmm, ok, something must have gotten screwed then
[00:09] <macGerhard> cheers anyways :)
[00:09] <teamcobra> yea, check the install media too
[00:10] <macGerhard> teamcobra: that's an iso
[00:10] <macGerhard> a server-only image
[00:10] <macGerhard> will double-check
[00:18] <Wicky656> nagios or zabbix? which is the bigger pain in the rear to deal with?
[00:34] <mindframe> can someone help me with cryptsetup... i created two keys for this device, one using a passphrase and one using a keyfile.  i want to delete the passphrase key slot 0.  when i run 'cryptsetup luksDelKey /dev/sda1 0' it asks me to 'Enter any remaining LUKS passphrase:'    what passphrase should i enter here?
[00:37] <erichammond> mindframe: Is slot 0 your passphrase or the keyfile?
[00:37] <erichammond> mindframe: reading closer, looks like you're saying it's your passphrase.
[00:37] <mindframe> erichammond, i used luksformat to create it with a passphrase so i assume 0 is the passphrase
[00:38] <erichammond> mindframe: Try using this option: cryptsetup luksDelKey --key-file KEYFILE ...
[00:38] <mindframe> erichammond, i used the same passphrase when i added the key... so could that cause problem?
[00:38] <mindframe> erichammond, where is the keyfile located for the passphrase?
[00:39] <mindframe> i assume there isnt one
[00:39] <mindframe> *added the keyfile
[00:40] <mindframe> i wish luksformat would let me specify a keyfile instead of passphrase
[00:41] <erichammond> mindframe: I hate to hear "assume" when dealing with encrypted data :)  Try using luksDump to see if it gives you info.
[00:41] <mindframe> it shows two enabled keys
[00:41] <mindframe> 0 and 1
[00:41] <mindframe> slot 1 shows Key material offset:	264
[00:41] <mindframe> so i think thats the keyfile
[00:42] <mindframe> ok im going to start over
[00:42] <erichammond> mindframe: According to the cryptsetup manpage it does support a key file in luksFormat, just using a different calling method
[00:42] <mindframe> yeah i just saw that
[00:42] <mindframe> heh
[00:43] <mindframe> thanks
[00:43] <erichammond> mindframe: When you want to remove a slot, you need to authenticate with a *different* slot so that it knows you will still have access to the encrypted data.
[00:44] <mindframe> thats what i thought... so i thought it wanted the passphrase i used when creating that keyfile
[00:44] <mindframe> but it said there were no remaining keys that would use that passphrase
[00:44] <erichammond> mindframe: cryptsetup luksDelKey --key-file YOURKEYFILEFROMSLOT1 /dev/sda1 0
[00:44] <mindframe> but i want to delete 0 and keep 1
[00:45] <mindframe> hrmm next problem, i dont see a way to specify FS type with cryptsetup luksFormat
[00:46] <erichammond> mindframe: RIght, You're deleting 0 and telling it you'll still have access with keyfile from 1.  Worth trying if you're going to throw it away anyway.
[00:46] <mindframe> ah okay
[00:46] <erichammond> You can use a different command: luksformat -t FSTYPE /dev/...
[00:47] <mindframe> how do i specify keyfile with that one?
[00:47] <mindframe> --key-file still?
[00:47] <erichammond> mindframe: dunno
[00:52] <a13x> anybody know which package jarsigner is part of?
[00:55] <docta_v> i'm trying to build an i386 package on a amd64 system
[00:55] <docta_v> i use dpkg-buildpackage -ai386 but it still builds a 64 bit package
[00:55] <docta_v> any tricks i'm missing here?
[00:57] <erichammond> a13x: In Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy, jarsigner appears to be part of openjdk-6-jdk
[00:57] <erichammond> a13x: Here's how I found it: sudo apt-get install -y apt-file; sudo apt-file update; apt-file search jarsigner
[00:59] <erichammond> a13x: jarsigner is also in sun-java5-jdk and sun-java6-jdk
[01:01] <a13x> thanks a lot, forgot to restart shell after installation
[02:10] <chmac> Anyone know which package vim PHP syntax highlighting is contained in?
[02:15] <leonel> do you have    syntax on ??
[02:22] <chmac> leonel: That was indeed the fix :)
[02:22] <chmac> leonel: Thanks
[02:22] <leonel> chmac: set that  in /etc/vim/vimrc
[02:23] <chmac> leonel: I added it to ~/.vimrc which also works
[02:23] <chmac> leonel: It seems like a sensible default, but whatever, it's on now :)
[02:49] <a13x> cxo, (if you are still there) i think i set up the raid that i was talking
[02:49] <a13x> *about
[02:50] <a13x> however, when i disconnect one of the drives it freezes kernel until i reconnect and there is some file system corruption
[03:00] <a13x> is fakeraid hot-swappable?
[03:13] <Twigathy> I have a strange problem.
[03:14] <Twigathy> 2 ethernet interfaces, eth0 and eth2. Both DHCP. One internet facing, one facing a private chunk of LAN (Not internet facing). Bringing up both eth0 and eth2 results in 2 "default" linus in the 'route' command, and connectivity is...weird at best. Anyone got clues as to how to fix this?
[03:14] <Twigathy> My current fix is "route del default" and hope it whacks the right one
[03:19] <a13x> is there a dhcp server on the LAN?
[03:20] <Twigathy> There's DHCP on both sides
[03:20] <Twigathy> I suspect what is happening is both dhcp servers give the thing a default gateway and it gets confused...
[03:21] <a13x> set static ip on lan side
[03:22] <a13x> you will also have to set the lan dhcp server to give out that static ip as the gateway
[03:23] <a13x> and you will also have to set ipv6_forward to 1
[03:23] <Twigathy> Any way to make that persist across reboots? (The ipv6 forward stuff)
[03:23] <a13x> and i if am not wrong you will have to set up nat rules in ip tables
[03:23] <Twigathy> yuck :<
[03:23] <a13x> only 3 rules
[03:24] <a13x> very simple
[03:24] <a13x> although, one ftp mode will not work
[03:24] <Twigathy> I've not got an ftpd running
[03:24] <a13x> commercial routers mangle with ftp traffic
[03:24] <a13x> i am not sure if those rules will take care of ftp
[03:25] <Twigathy> hmm, I wonder if it'd be easier to give the LAN a net connection.
[03:25] <a13x> its not that bad, i've done it
[03:25] <Twigathy> Then I could have a default gateway on both interfaces, but it might get even more confused!
[03:25] <a13x> plus, if you install squid transparent proxy you can do all kinds of fun things
[03:26] <Twigathy> Upsidedownternet? ;)
[03:26] <a13x> maybe
[03:28] <Twigathy> well, cheers - I will try fiddling with a static IP :)
[04:13] <meoblast001> hi
[04:13] <meoblast001> im in some serious need of help
[04:13] <meoblast001> my IRC server wont allow clients to connect
[04:13] <meoblast001> im using IRCd-Hybrid
[04:13] <meoblast001> heres my configureation file
[04:14] <meoblast001> http://pastebin.com/dbe551e5
[04:14] <meoblast001> im desperate for help
[08:47] <kraut> moin
[10:01] <exot> hello all, any idea to make a copy of my ubuntu server Hardy, as a backup, I mean a full copy of the file system and it's packages and configs
[10:01] <ivoks> dd
[10:01] <ivoks> dd into an image
[10:01] <exot> hmm ?
[10:02] <ivoks> dd if=/dev/yourpartition of=/mnt/other_disk/backup.iso
[10:02] <exot> is it restore-able  easily ?
[10:02] <ivoks> dd if=/mnt/other_disk/backup.iso of=/dev/yourpartition
[10:02] <ivoks> :D
[10:03] <exot> haha
[10:03] <ivoks> this probably isn't what you are looking for
[10:03] <CrummyGummy> exot: What Raid are you using?
[10:03] <exot> no raid
[10:03] <CrummyGummy> Never mind then...
[10:04] <exot> okay great .. but is it possible to copy the partition while the server is up ?
[10:06] <ivoks> why noy? you are reading it... i've never tried, tough...
[10:06] <CrummyGummy> It will slow things horribly.
[10:07] <CrummyGummy> exot: Are you using LVM?
[10:07] <exot> no I don't use LVM
[10:07] <ivoks> you should :D
[10:08] <exot> yeah .. it's late now :)
[10:08] <ivoks> fwiw, i never do bit-for-bit copies of data
[10:08] <ivoks> i always do logic backup; list of installed packages, dumps of databases and ldifs and configuration
[10:08] <exot> hmm.. I started to be worry
[10:08] <CrummyGummy> that would make things easy. Just make a snapshot. raid 1 also makes things eay. Just replace the hdd every now and again.
[10:09] <ivoks> argghhhh dbmail is crap
[10:09] <captbaritone> is it possible to use the zip utility to create a zip file where the paths inside the zip file are different than what they were in the file system?
[10:10] <captbaritone> For example zip a deep list of files to a flat structure in the zip file?
[10:12] <exot> CrummyGummy, ivoks when restoring the image, is it possible to restore while the another machine is up ?
[10:13] <exot> I mean the destination machine
[10:14] <ivoks> you would restore it from live cd
[10:14] <ivoks> cause image would contain partition table, and everything
[10:14] <exot> yeah .. I see
[10:14] <exot> hmm .. another question please
[10:14] <ivoks> so, you have to restore on to exactly the same hard disk
[10:14] <exot> is it possible to use dd for incremental backup ?
[10:14] <ivoks> no
[10:14] <ivoks> dd isn't a backup tool
[10:15] <exot> yes I know
[10:15] <ivoks> it was a smart-ass suggestion :D
[10:15] <exot> just a stupid question ;)
[10:15] <exot> lol
[10:16] <exot> so .. any suggestions ?
[10:21] <ivoks> you want bare metal restore?
[10:21] <exot> I'm sorry, I don't understand ,, what bare metal ?
[10:22] <CrummyGummy> run backuppc.
[10:22] <ivoks> bare metal restore means - my server died and i have blank hard disks, i'll just plug the power cord, put this CD in it and wait untill everything restore
[10:22] <CrummyGummy> on a seperate server. It
[10:22] <ivoks> if you want that, check out mondo
[10:23] <exot> yeah yeah
[10:23] <exot> thaaaaaanks!
[10:23] <ivoks> backuppc is normal backup
[10:23] <ivoks> exot: i don't think mondo support incremental backup
[10:24] <exot> ops!
[10:24] <ivoks> there's always bacula
[10:24] <exot> ahm .. googling
[10:24] <ivoks> full enterprise solution, has incremental backup, supports bare metal restora
[10:24] <ivoks> restore
[10:24] <ivoks> but... it's very hard to setup :)
[10:25] <exot> damit .. nothing in free!
[10:25] <ivoks> bacula is free
[10:25] <exot> free in efforts
[10:25] <ivoks> eh... no pain no gain
[10:25] <exot> hehe
[10:25] <ivoks> you can't have flexibile solution without interaction
[10:25] <exot> okay
[10:26] <exot> then I have dd of full image backup
[10:26] <exot> and then I will run bacula
[10:26] <exot> I don't have time!
[10:26] <ivoks> pay someone to do it
[10:27] <exot> yeah ... thanks for the advice
[11:16] <blackdiamond> hi there, i write from Italy. I've create on my ubuntu a little ftp where anonymous can download files.  I try to test it but my friends say that it doesn't work.. is there someone that can help me to test it?
[11:17] <blackdiamond> i use vsftpd
[11:19] <blackdiamond> noone?
[11:21] <blackdiamond> ??
[11:22] <ivoks> it doesn't work?
[11:22] <ivoks> more details?
[11:22] <blackdiamond> yeh, friends say that they can't view any files..
[11:22] <blackdiamond> this is my ip and ftp is active now..
[11:22] <blackdiamond> <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:22] <blackdiamond> i've got a file pdf for test..do you see?
[11:22] <ivoks> i can't even connect to it
[11:23] <ivoks> where did you put that file on your filesystem?
[11:23] <ivoks> how to fix dbmail memory leak:
[11:23] <blackdiamond> i put on the directory create with vsftpd that is located uder the home
[11:23] <ivoks> */10 ** * *root/etc/init.d/dbmail-imapd stop ; sleep 1 ; killall -9 dbmail-imapd ;sleep 1 ; /etc/init.d/dbmail-imapd start
[11:24] <ivoks> blackdiamond: could you just paste that path, i didn't understand you quite well...
[11:25] <blackdiamond> in the filesystem i got /home/ftp (was created by default installing vsftpd)
[11:25] <ivoks> right
[11:25] <blackdiamond> ok
[11:25] <ivoks> now i see it...
[11:26] <blackdiamond> what do you see? i0ve got two files
[11:26] <ivoks> i don't see files, but it did connect
[11:27] <blackdiamond> yeh, same of my friends, but as you they see nothing..but i don't know where is the problem
[11:27] <ivoks> it should work
[11:27] <blackdiamond> in vsftpd.conf i put anonymous , and only download parameter
[11:29] <ivoks> do 'sudo touch /home/ftp/test'
[11:30] <blackdiamond> wait
[11:30] <blackdiamond> ok..it give me nothing
[11:32] <ivoks> tail -f /var/log/vsftpd.log
[11:32] <ivoks> and check if anyone is connecting
[11:32] <blackdiamond> from root?
[11:32] <ivoks> as root, yes
[11:32] <blackdiamond> sprry for the stupid question
[11:32] <blackdiamond> ok
[11:33] <blackdiamond> tail: cannot open `/var/log/vsftpd.log' for reading: No such file or directory
[11:33] <blackdiamond> tail: no files remaining
[11:34] <ivoks> so, you don't have vsftpd?
[11:34] <blackdiamond> yeh i have it
[11:34] <ivoks> then there should be that file
[11:36] <blackdiamond> maybe i have to create that log file configuring some parameters on vsftpd.conf?
[11:36] <ivoks> installation of package creates it
[11:36] <ivoks> which ubuntu you have?
[11:36] <blackdiamond> i have installed it on intrepid testing
[11:37] <ivoks> ...
[11:37] <ivoks> intrepid is work in progress
[11:37] <blackdiamond> so think that is this the problem?
[11:37] <ivoks> you shouldn't use it if you aren'y very familliar with linux
[11:37] <ivoks> aren't even
[11:38] <blackdiamond> personally i test also hardy from the beginning..
[11:38] <blackdiamond> so i'll try to install it on my hardy..
[11:38] <ivoks> if you think it's a bug in intrepid, do report it
[11:38] <ivoks> i still don't have intrepid, so i can't test it
[11:38] <blackdiamond> and.. do you think it is?
[11:39] <blackdiamond> now i'll take a look at the launchpad..
[11:41] <ivoks> i don't know; i can't test it... report it and someone will take a look at it
[11:43] <blackdiamond> yeh.. now i find out that there are no bug report yet for this package.. thanks you very much man!!! really thanks
[11:44] <ivoks> but i'm quite sure that it isn't a bug...
[11:45] <ivoks> someone would notice such huge bug in debian
[11:45] <blackdiamond> if you want i cant post my vsftpd.conf if you want to see what i get..
[11:45] <blackdiamond> if not don't worry man
[11:46] <ivoks> you can, on pastebin.ubuntu.com
[11:46] <ivoks> not here
[11:47] <blackdiamond> that's it http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20826/
[11:50] <ivoks> i guess you noticed that file is... strange
[11:50] <ivoks> it starts with:
[11:50] <ivoks> # has an effect if the above global write enable is activated.
[11:50] <ivoks> you are missing 35 lines from the begining of the file
[11:51] <ivoks> and download_enable doesn't exist on hardy
[11:52] <blackdiamond> download_enable and anon_max_rate=0 i find that values using a guide..
[11:54] <blackdiamond> mmm.. i think that i have to read more about that...
[11:55] <blackdiamond> now it must be complete, sorry man http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20829/
[11:57] <ivoks> ok... so loging is enabled
[11:57] <ivoks> and there should be a log
[12:02] <blackdiamond> so?
[12:09] <ivoks> ls -dl /var/log/vsftp*
[12:09] <ivoks> this results with nothing?
[12:10] <blackdiamond> do you mean /var/log/vsftpd?
[12:11] <blackdiamond> it say me "no such file or directory"
[12:19] <ivoks> sudo apt-get --reinstall install vsftpd
[12:21] <blackdiamond> ok done
[12:21] <ivoks> now check if file is there
[12:22] <blackdiamond> no
[12:22] <blackdiamond> :-(
[12:22] <ivoks> report a bug
[12:25] <blackdiamond> so the bug reporting is that "there is no /var/log/vsftpd.log by default?
[12:25] <blackdiamond> after installing it..
[12:25] <ivoks> no
[12:25] <blackdiamond> opsss
[12:25] <ivoks> bug is 'vsftpd doesn't work'
[12:25] <blackdiamond> ah oh yes
[12:26] <blackdiamond> but the think that is strange is that there is the log file right?
[12:26] <blackdiamond> i mean that
[12:26] <blackdiamond> there isnt' the log file sorry for my englis language
[12:28] <ivoks> i'm not convinced
[12:28] <ivoks> the same package is in hardy
[12:28] <ivoks> hardy and intrepid have the same packages
[12:29] <blackdiamond> yeh
[12:30] <ivoks> how about leaving the default file?
[12:30] <ivoks> the default configuration file is configured for anonymous read-only
[12:31] <blackdiamond> i chose that configuration to let me people download linux pakages and so on without uploading any files
[12:31] <ivoks> that's the default configuration
[12:32] <blackdiamond> so i should be work
[12:32] <ivoks> if you don't touch it, yes
[12:32] <blackdiamond> yeh
[12:33] <ivoks> so, for start, purge vsftpd
[12:33] <ivoks> apt-get --purge remove vsftpd
[12:34] <blackdiamond> yeh think to do the same
[12:34] <blackdiamond> man, thank you very much for your patience
[12:34] <blackdiamond> really geltle
[12:34] <blackdiamond> gentle
[12:35] <blackdiamond> if you are here next days i'll let you know something if you want, now i'll go out to do some stuffs..
[12:35] <blackdiamond> thank you very much!
[12:37] <ivoks> np
[12:37] <blackdiamond> bye
[13:26] <sommer_> morning all
[13:27] <Nafallo> morning sommer_
[13:32] <zul> hi sommer_
[14:04] <zul> Koon: ping
[14:04] <Koon> zul: pong
[14:05] <zul> Koon: need a sponsor to upload your dnsmasq fix?
[14:06] <Koon> zul: for bug 235868 ?
[14:06] <zul> yep
[14:06] <zul> er...239404
[14:07] <Koon> zul: ah, the merge one. Yes, but mathiaz hs already looked at it
[14:07] <zul> what about 235868
[14:08] <Koon> for that one I sshould have an SRU ack first, I suppose
[14:10] <zul> I just upload it and wait for an accepted
[14:11] <Koon> the patch is a no-brainer anyway, just fixing soren's typo :)
[14:14] <zul> yep Ill upload it for you
[14:15] <zul> done
[14:41] <lukehasnoname_> !packaging
[14:58] <exot> hello, I have installed DNS server and configured zones correctly, but the server doesn't resolve internet domains. only mine, any ideas ?
[14:59] <sommer_> exot: did you setup a forward to an outside dns server?  usually your ISPs
[15:00] <exot> sommer_, I set the forwarders is my local router address
[15:01] <sommer_> exot: and your local router can forward?  most can... did you change /etc/resolv.conf?
[15:01] <exot> yes it can
[15:01] <exot> if I set the dhcp.conf to give only ther router, it can resolve
[15:02] <sommer_> any errors in /var/log/syslog from named?
[15:02] <exot> no
[15:03] <sommer_> you might try setting the forwarder to you ISPs DNS and see if that helps
[15:04] <exot> hmm .. okay
[15:05] <exot> I will try
[15:07] <exot> sommer_, it does .. but very very slow
[15:07] <exot> is there any idea if we can make to DNS servers, my local and the router ?
[15:08] <exot> two*
[15:11] <sommer_> exot: you mean in your dhcp?  if so then yes you can
[15:20] <exot> sommer_, yes
[15:20] <exot> I added them both
[15:20] <exot> but if I set the router's first,  the browser forwards to google search, if I set the loca dns, it's very slow
[15:22] <sommer_> exot: you might try upping the logging, there are some details here: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/dns.html
[15:23] <sommer_> that's strange that its slower than the router
[15:23] <exot> hmm .. yes, it's very quick if the router is the only dns server
[15:50] <mathiaz> Koon: re bug 206763 - ubuntu-vm-builder is maintained in a bzr branch
[15:51] <mathiaz> Koon: so I'd suggest that you branch ubuntu-vm-builder, make your modification and submit your branch for merging with a reference to the bug
[15:53] <Koon> mathiaz: ok, I already maintain my changes in a branch, I just have to figure out how to "submit my branch for merging"
[15:54] <mathiaz> Koon: well - in the bug view, there is a link on the left that says - link to a branch
[15:54] <mathiaz> Koon: or something like that
[15:54] <mathiaz> Koon: you can use that instead of attaching a patch
[15:55] <mathiaz> Koon: as for proposing your branch, you first need to push your branch to LP
[15:56] <Koon> mathiaz: that was the missing step ;)
[15:56] <mathiaz> Koon: once there, when you select your branch in your code view, there is a link that says Propose for merging
[15:57] <mathiaz> Koon: ask nijaba about it - he's been doing that a lot lately :)
[16:00] <nijaba> mathiaz: I love gaining karma in LP ;)
[16:44] <darthmarth37|Wk> Any thoughts on how to go about mirroring an APT repository without using apt-mirror?
[16:45] <lukehasnoname_> Compile apt-mirror on RHEL and use apt-mirror
[16:45] <lukehasnoname_> >_>
[16:46] <cxo> Can a transparent mirror be created?
[16:47] <cxo> like you throw in a rule/script to catch any request for a mirror index file (not sure what its called in ubuntu, its file.xml or something on fedora) and then dnat traffic for that host to your server untill the connection drops or something
[16:52] <darthmarth37|Wk> I'm just not sure how well cobbler will work with apt-mirror.
[17:12] <zul> mathiaz: so just to bug you the idea behind the ppa would be here is an unoffical fix for you bug can you add the server team ppa to try it out
[17:14] <mathiaz> zul: wouldn't you use your ppa for that ?
[17:15] <zul> mathiaz: true but if it comes from the server team it would probably be percieved as more official then me
[17:15] <mathiaz> zul: well - there won't be an official review or something like that
[17:15] <zul> kernel team does it now I believe as well
[17:16] <Brazen> So, any thoughts on using dpkg-reconfigure as a management backend, rather than Augeas?
[17:16] <zul> mathiaz: of course
[17:16] <mathiaz> zul: I'm not sure that having ubuntu-server in the URL would help
[17:16] <mathiaz> zul: for the kernel team, they only have a small set of packages
[17:16] <Brazen> I think nealmcb did have a good point in that contributing to something that is cross-distro would be better
[17:17] <mathiaz> zul: it may fit in their workflow - we could ask them why and how they're using their ppa
[17:17] <zul> mathiaz: sure Ill ask
[17:17] <ScottK> zul: I think not being perceived as official is a feature, not a bug.
[17:17] <mathiaz> zul: but I'm not convinced of the value of having yet another location to look for packages
[17:18] <zul> mathiaz: lemme think about it a bit more
[17:18] <mathiaz> zul: if you come accross a package that would fit in the new scheme, let me know
[17:19] <zul> I will oh and that samba and suspending your laptop bug is fixed now
[17:20] <mathiaz> zul: awesome
[17:20] <zul> Ill file an SRU for it after I grab some lunch
[17:20] <mathiaz> zul: would it make sense to do a SRU for hardy for samba and upload 3.0.30 ?
[17:21] <zul> probably not right now since we are gettng closer to 8.04.1
[17:21] <nealmcb> Brazen: yeah - I can imagine lots of different aspects to choosing a backend....  a big discussion - would be nice to have someone who has looked a lot at the different options lay out some useful comparisons
[17:21] <mathiaz> zul: oh I don't think about 8.04.1
[17:21] <mathiaz> zul: just to get 3.0.30 in hardy at some point
[17:21] <zul> mathiaz: I do :)
[17:21] <zul> mathiaz: yeah that would be fine but at some point :)
[17:23] <zul> but this would be a good case for the ppa then here is a backport that we want users to test before uploading to -proposed
[17:23] <Brazen> nealmcb: it was really just something that popped into my head.  I typically prefer to edit config files, but sometimes, like if I don't really care to learn the config file :D, then I just use dpkg-reconfigure, which really is already the gui-frontend we've been talking about
[17:24] <ScottK> On a package specifc basis, yes.
[17:24] <ScottK> That requires the maintainer to have set up debconf questions.
[17:24] <ScottK> A lot of packages provide a sane default and then expect you to edit the config file.
[17:25] <Brazen> true, just wondering if maybe it would be easier to expand on that, than start over
[17:26] <Brazen> I can see some advantages to the debconf way, too (as there are indeed disadvantages)
[17:27] <Brazen> such as each packages maintainer being responsible for making sure config file changes are updated in the debconf questions
[17:28] <ScottK> Setting up debconf is non-trivial.
[17:28] <ScottK> If you want to require it for all server packages, there will be a lot fewer of them.
[17:29] <nealmcb> For admin changes that require config changes to multiple packages I can imagine a system that coordinates them and uses dpkg-reconfigure to implement them.  but I have a fertile and sometimes inconsistent imagination :)
[17:29] <Brazen> Is creating and maintaining a whole nuther application to do this trivial?
[17:30] <Brazen> I don't think it's a great epiphany or anything, just thought it might something worth mulling over.
[17:31] <nealmcb> I do like the idea of pushing some of the config stuff back upstream, and wonder if augeas is doing that in any way
[17:31] <Brazen> Besides, I'm a sysadmin, not a developer, and this is probably more a question of which is going to be easier on the developers.
[17:32] <ScottK> Personally I like stuff like postconf in postfix.  I'd much rather use that than dpkg-reconfigure.
[17:32] <nealmcb> well, I think we need a lot of savvy sysadmin input - they are the customers.  it has to work for both developers and admins
[17:32] <ScottK> I think it packages want to be generally externally configurable, then they ought to provide a good mechanism like that.
[17:33] <Brazen> Funny you should bring up postfix, that's the only think I can think of that I ever use dpkg-reconfigure for :D
[17:34] <ScottK> Odd.  I think it has very easy to read and accesible config files.
[17:34] <Brazen> nealmcb: true, but I try to keep my jihads confined to things that will actually affect me as a sysadmin.  "backend" stuff usually affects the developers more than the sysadmins.
[17:35] <lamont> Brazen: and people using a mixture of the two methods has been the source of great pain for me
[17:35] <ScottK> Brazen: ^^^^ postfix maintainer for debian/ubuntu.
[17:35] <Brazen> ScottK: well, it probably does.  It's just one of those things that dpkg-reconfigure got it working just how I needed, so I never bothered to learn the config files.
[17:36] <nealmcb> Brazen: true.  So what is your input on the frontend?  Have you tried ebox?
[17:36] <Brazen> I HATE ebox
[17:37] <Brazen> I've brought this up before, but it is WAY too heavy.
[17:37] <ScottK> Because it uses Apache?
[17:37] <Brazen> yes
[17:37] <nealmcb> Brazen: is there something you like better?
[17:37] <Brazen> Webmin.... yes yes I know it has problems too
[17:37] <ScottK> nealmcb: I think 'needs apache' is a valid complaint.
[17:38] <Brazen> somebody mentioned, somewhere, that ebox has plans to embed their own webserver
[17:38] <ScottK> nealmcb: I think it would be useful if they were web server independent so if someone wanted to run it with lighttpd they could.
[17:38] <cxo> its not like its a big deal grade 10s dish out 1000 line http serves everyday
[17:39] <Brazen> even on a web server that will have apache anyway, I would prefer my management app to function independent of apache
[17:39] <cxo> s/serves/servers
[17:40] <nealmcb> grade 10s?
[17:40] <Brazen> yeah, grade 10s, what?
[17:40] <nealmcb> but having a secure, compliant http server is nontrivial
[17:40] <Brazen> rewrite it in Ruby and use Mongrel :D
[17:43] <Brazen> ok, here is one thing though: the ebox way may be a good way to do it, IF you could install ebox on one webserver, and then use it to administer hundreds of other servers through some other lightweight management backend.
[17:44] <sommer_> Brazen: I think that's in the works for a future version... maybe not intrepid, but there was mention of it at fosscamp
[17:46] <Brazen> that's why I think splitting out a fontend and backed to management is important (ie Augeas).  Although it will need to be network accessible, either built-in, or possible over ssh ( <-- I like over ssh, because it's already there, and secure)
[17:50]  * lamont has yet to see any web management interface that doesn't make him cry
[17:50] <ivoks> lamont: java vim applet
[17:50] <ivoks> or, even better, java console applet :D
[17:51] <lamont> ivoks: heh
[17:51] <lamont> ivoks: ssh avoids the java weight
[17:51] <ivoks> but we are talking about web interfaces, so ssh isn't an option :)
[17:59] <kees> mathiaz, jdstrand: since 2.6.26 is now the default in intrepid, I'm going to upload the new AppArmor userspace tools.
[17:59] <mathiaz> kees: \o/
[17:59] <jdstrand> kees: sounds good
[17:59] <mathiaz> kees: have you read the paper about smacks ?
[17:59] <kees> (i.e. AA isn't enabled in the intrepid kernel, so the "breaks the world" userspace tools won't be a problem, but will be ready for testing with new kernels when AA is merged)
[17:59] <kees> mathiaz: I skimmed it
[17:59] <kees> mathiaz: did you?
[18:00] <mathiaz> kees: not in-depth
[18:00] <cxo> 2.6.26 thats a cool kernel version
[18:00] <kees> cxo: hehe, yeah -- I was thinking the same thing while I typed that.  :)
[18:01] <ivoks> 2.6.66 will be even better :)
[18:17] <zul> ivoks: im waiting for  6.6.66 myself :)
[18:22] <ivoks_> zul: uff... high hopes :D
[18:22] <zul> ivoks: heh
[18:33] <lukehasnoname> Damnit! I missed the server meeting.
[18:39] <cxo> i doubt we will go passed 2.6.40
[18:40] <cxo> at least looking at 2.4.x and 2.2.x its not likely
[18:45] <ivoks_> well, 2.6 doesn't have 'testing' tree
[18:45] <ivoks_> as 2.3 and 2.5 were
[18:48] <ScottK> Yes.  The development model is entirely different now.
[18:48] <ivoks_> has anyone played with adding collation definitions for mysql?
[18:49] <ivoks_> oh, france vs. italy in 40 minutes...
[18:50] <ivoks_> tak care everyone :)
[18:53] <cxo> is the match streamed online?
[18:55] <ivoks_> cxo: probably
[19:02] <sommer_> ivoks_: ya, the euros are awesome, heh
[19:03] <ivoks_> sommer_: who's the best, ha? :D
[19:04] <sommer_> I've only watched up till friday, recorded the rest, but I like Spain
[19:05] <ivoks_> sommer_: spain always has a good start and then fails very early, sometimes even end up third in group
[19:05] <sommer_> croatia v. germany was really good match :)
[19:05] <ivoks_> nah... i liked our match against poland, cause we had only substitudes playing :)
[19:06] <sommer_> don't think I've watched that one yet, was it saturday?
[19:06] <ivoks_> yesterday
[19:07] <sommer_> ah, ya I should get to that match this week... sigh, so much to do, heh
[19:07] <ivoks_> i think france and itlay will play for prestige... romania will win against netherland's 'b' team
[19:08] <lukehasnoname> firefox.com is down
[19:08] <ivoks_> i didn't even know there's firefox.com
[19:08] <sommer_> ivoks_: heh, the dutch are pretty dang good too
[19:09] <sommer_> just saw the ff3 announcment... nice!
[19:09] <ivoks_> sommer_: yes, they are my favourite, whenever croatia drops out :)
[19:09] <ivoks_> http://mozilla.com/
[19:09] <ivoks_> nice :)
[19:15]  * delcoyote hi
[19:16] <nxvl> nealmcb: i was just about to send you an email
[19:16] <nxvl> nealmcb: i have some minutes to chat since i'm having lunch at home
[19:16] <nxvl> nealmcb: i think you are looking for ebox-ucsa integration, didn't you?
[19:28] <zul> mathiaz: samba fix uploaded
[19:29] <jdstrand> zul: is that a -proposed fix?
[19:30] <zul> jdstrand: yep
[19:30] <jdstrand> zul: what is the bug number?
[19:30] <zul> jdstrand: hold on
[19:31] <zul> jdstrand: #180493, #172541
[19:31] <jdstrand> zul: I just uploaded samba to -security, and will add notes to those when published
[19:32] <zul> jdstrand: thanks
[19:32] <jdstrand> zul: this is for CVE-2008-1105
[19:33] <zul> gotcha
[20:16] <zul> mathiaz: ping
[20:20] <lukehasnoname> zul: ping - send ICMP ECHO_REQUEST packets to network hosts
[20:20] <lukehasnoname> See "ping --help" for more options
[20:22] <sommer_> heh
[20:25] <zul> infinity: sybase support seems to have disapeared in favor of mssql support in hardy any idea why?
[20:26] <infinity> zul: I didn't do it.  But we'd long ago talked about merging them into one module, once one clearly supported all the features of the other.
[20:27] <zul> infinity: ah because I think people are complainnig about it now
[20:34] <infinity> zul: People like to do that. :/
[20:34] <zul> infinity: oh I know :P
[20:39] <a13x> question: what is the best timer frequency for a server
[20:42] <jetsaredim> anyone have any ideas as to why my install would stop at "Storing language"?
[20:46] <jetsaredim> ok - lemmie try a different question...  anyone have any suggestions on installing ubuntu server on a really, really old system?
[20:50] <ScottK> jetsaredim: How old?
[21:07] <lukehasnoname> jetsaredim: Like, Michael Caine old, or John Wayne old, or Martin Van Buren old?
[21:28] <mathiaz> zul: wazzup ?
[22:36] <nxvl> soren: ping
[22:36] <tjaalton> seems that redhat openened the RHN upstream: http://www.redhat.com/spacewalk/
[22:37] <nxvl> soren: did you know any easy and quick way to emulate a rpm based system?
[22:37] <nxvl> soren: i just need the rpm tool to check some src.rpm's
[22:38] <ScottK> nxvl: What are you trying to do with the srcrpms?
[22:38] <nxvl> ScottK: just want to check how they package a program to use it as base
[22:38] <nxvl> s/base/example
[22:39] <ScottK> I'd use alien to turn it into a tar.gz (don't turn it into a .deb) and have a look.
[22:39] <nxvl> right!
[22:39] <nxvl> i forgot about alien
[22:39]  * nxvl mans
[22:41]  * nxvl HUGS ScottK
[22:42] <mathiaz> nijaba: check this out - https://fedorahosted.org/pulp
[22:42] <nxvl> damn
[22:42]  * nxvl has just remember why he hates rpms
[22:43] <nxvl> mathiaz: it sounds very cool
[22:43] <nxvl> mathiaz: i have dive into it's documentation after UDS since i don't remember who mention it
[22:45] <nxvl> btw
[22:45] <nxvl> is there any guide about library packaging for ubuntu?
[22:45] <nxvl> or just the debian library guide?
[22:46] <mathiaz> nxvl: the debian library guide is a good starting point
[22:46] <mathiaz> nxvl: there are also a couple of session about library packaging that were givin during the developer week back in february
[22:46] <nxvl> mathiaz: that's what i thought
[22:46] <nxvl> oh right!
[22:46] <nxvl> i hate to work and study
[22:47] <nxvl> i don't know where is my mind anymore
[22:47] <nxvl> it should be the kelly boundy syndrome
[22:47] <ScottK> nxvl: There's also a recent motu-school session that was very good.
[22:48] <nxvl> ScottK: yes, there are a lot of session, i just don't know where is mi mind now
[22:48] <nxvl> ScottK: after UDS i needed to catch up at work and university and i have just finished all the stuff i needed to do yesterday, so i'm kind of out of my mind
[22:50]  * nxvl HUGS mathiaz and ScottK
[22:50] <nxvl> mmm
[22:51] <nxvl> does it would be a problem to include a lgpl file copyrighted by redhat?
[22:51] <nxvl> s/file/lib
[22:54] <ScottK> Not at all.  LGPL is LGPL no matter who copyrighted it.
[22:56] <nxvl> well i have just go into a NIGHTMARE
[22:56] <nxvl> it includes a LOT of software from other licenses and copyrights
[22:56] <nxvl> :S
[22:57]  * nxvl will suffer
[22:57]  * ScottK doesn't mind ;-)
[23:01] <ajmitch> licences are great fun
[23:01] <nxvl> ajmitch: no, they don't :D
[23:01] <nxvl> btw
[23:01] <nxvl> if a package includes some libraries, which are already in other packages is it a good practice to just remove them and include as dependencies?
[23:04] <ScottK> Yes.  It's practically mandatory.
[23:05] <ScottK> Not to bad.  18 minutes from sudo do-release-upgrade to the reboot on a dual PIII 450 w/512MB ram server.
[23:09] <jetsaredim> ScottK: re: age of my server - 1994 or so
[23:10] <jetsaredim> I thought it was hung, but just taking forever - it finally got past that and seems to be chugging along
[23:10] <ScottK> jetsaredim: What CPU?
[23:10] <jetsaredim> pentium 166
[23:13] <ScottK> jetsaredim: I think i386 is the oldest we support.
[23:46] <mindframe> anyone have an idea why fdisk and cfdisk don't want to create anything larger than a 2.5TB disk on a disk that shows up at 3.5 TB?
[23:47] <mindframe> Disk /dev/sdb: 3499.9 GB,<PHONE_NUMBER>464 bytes
[23:48] <mindframe> First cylinder (1-425508, default 1): 1
[23:48] <mindframe> Last cylinder or +size or +sizeM or +sizeK (1-267349, default 267349): 425508
[23:48] <mindframe> :(
[23:50] <mindframe> running 64bit so there shouldnt be any limitations there


[11:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: coq-relation-algebra [amd64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.7.8-1] (no packageset)
[11:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: coq-relation-algebra [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.7.8-1] (no packageset)
[11:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: coq-relation-algebra [s390x] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.7.8-1] (no packageset)
[11:56] <xypron> archive-sru Could you, please, approve u-boot 2022.07+dfsg-1ubuntu4.1 to move to kinetic-proposed, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/kinetic/+queue?queue_state=1
[12:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: xorg-server (kinetic-proposed/main) [2:21.1.4-2ubuntu1.1 => 2:21.1.4-2ubuntu1.2] (desktop-core, i386-whitelist, xorg)
[12:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: coq-relation-algebra [armhf] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.7.8-1] (no packageset)
[12:19] <utkarsh2102> ubuntu-archive: could you please review apt-transport-artifact-registry from the Lunar queue? it's NEW
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted coq-relation-algebra [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [1.7.8-1]
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted coq-relation-algebra [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [1.7.8-1]
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fiat-ecmwf [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fiat-ecmwf [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fiat-ecmwf [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted coq-relation-algebra [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [1.7.8-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fiat-ecmwf [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted coq-relation-algebra [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [1.7.8-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fiat-ecmwf [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [1.0.0-2]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted puppet-agent [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [7.20.0-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted zydis [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [4.0.0-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted zydis [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [4.0.0-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted zydis [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [4.0.0-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted seqan-needle [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>.0.git.3011926+ds-4]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted zydis [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [4.0.0-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted postgresql-15 [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [15.1-1]
[12:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted zydis [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [4.0.0-1]
[12:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted dnsmasq [source] (focal-proposed) [2.80-1.1ubuntu1.6]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [amd64] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [armhf] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [s390x] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rustc [i386] (lunar-proposed) [1.62.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1]
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools (kinetic-proposed/main) [2.23.0-0ubuntu1 => 2.23.0-0ubuntu1.1] (core)
[15:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools-signed (kinetic-proposed/main) [2.23.0-0ubuntu1 => 2.23.0-0ubuntu1.1] (core)
[15:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools (jammy-proposed/main) [2.20.0-0ubuntu3.1 => 2.20.0-0ubuntu3.2] (core)
[15:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools-signed (jammy-proposed/main) [2.20.0-0ubuntu3.1 => 2.20.0-0ubuntu3.2] (core)
[15:28] <LocutusOfBorg> does anybody know why gvmd fails on official builders and doesn't fail locally?
[15:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools-signed (focal-proposed/main) [2.12.0-0ubuntu3.6 => 2.12.0-0ubuntu3.7] (core)
[15:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools (focal-proposed/main) [2.12.0-0ubuntu3.6 => 2.12.0-0ubuntu3.7] (core)
[15:45] <RikMills> LocutusOfBorg: it failed in pbuilder for me
[15:46] <RikMills> same error as the archive
[15:51] <RikMills> though I have had to do some adjustments with pbuilder hooks to make sure it does use proposed in lunar
[15:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-wallpapers (kinetic-proposed/main) [22.10.2-0ubuntu1 => 22.10.2ubuntu1-0ubuntu1] (desktop-core)
[16:34] <LocutusOfBorg> RikMills, for some reasons I just discovered the same, its not using proposed pocket
[16:34] <LocutusOfBorg> I'm using pbulder-dist
[16:36] <RikMills> LocutusOfBorg: snap
[16:42] <RikMills> I used a hook to fix the priority of proposed to equal release
[16:43] <RikMills> I was not sure I had just a broken setup. Seems not
[16:44] <LocutusOfBorg> ['sudo', 'HOME=/home/locutus', 'ARCHITECTURE=amd64', 'DISTRIBUTION=lunar', 'ARCH=amd64', 'DIST=lunar', 'DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=1', 'pbuilder', '--build', '--distribution', 'lunar', '--buildresult', '/home/locutus/pbuilder/lunar_result', '--basetgz', '/home/locutus/pbuilder/lunar-base.tgz', '--logfile', '/home/locutus/pbuilder/lunar_result/gvmd_21.4.5-2_amd64.build', '--mirror', 'http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu',
[16:44] <LocutusOfBorg> '--othermirror', 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lunar-proposed main restricted universe multiverse', '--aptcache', '/home/locutus/pbuilder/aptcache/ubuntu', '--components', 'main restricted universe multiverse', 'gvmd_21.4.5-2.dsc']
[16:44] <LocutusOfBorg> the command looks good?
[16:46] <RikMills> I see nothing obvious wrong. I found that when creating a lunar pbuilder base .tar.gz it set the priority of proposed to 100 and release to 500
[16:46] <RikMills> hence proposed packaged not getting installed in the build
[16:46] <RikMills> my hook hack fixed the priority
[16:47] <LocutusOfBorg> apt build-dep -t lunar-proposed ../gvmd*.dsc
[16:47] <LocutusOfBorg> this should work
[16:47] <LocutusOfBorg> meh
[16:48] <RikMills> but anyway, yes, gvmd is broken somehow
[16:49] <LocutusOfBorg> where is already the apt pin conf file?
[16:50] <RikMills> I did not see one when logging into the pbuilder env, which was puzzling giving the 100 vs 500 values
[16:50] <LocutusOfBorg> I can't find on etc
[16:50] <LocutusOfBorg> so, apt changed somewhere we don't know...
[16:50] <LocutusOfBorg> juliank, ^^
[16:50] <LocutusOfBorg> looks like a serious bug to me, it did break users workflow...
[16:51] <RikMills> in the end I just made a hook that does this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2vy7qTJYcp/
[16:51] <RikMills> as a quick fix
[16:51] <cjwatson> there's a thread about this on ubuntu-devel
[16:51] <cjwatson> the now somewhat mistitled "Setting NotAutomatic for hirsute+1-proposed"
[16:51] <RikMills> oh that again
[16:52] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2022-November/042346.html in particular is exactly this
[16:54]  * RikMills has too many emails/lists and not enough time
[17:05] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks!
[17:06] <LocutusOfBorg> mapreri, ^^ does pbuilder need this change too?
[17:14] <LocutusOfBorg> RikMills, with the "fixed" pbuilder, I could easily fix the package :p thanks
[17:15] <RikMills> :D
[17:30] <juliank> Fix it all
[17:42]  * ricotz is having this lunar-proposed hack too for a while now
[17:53]  * Eickmeyer 's head meanwhile is just spinning
[19:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: tomcat9 (focal-proposed/universe) [9.0.31-1ubuntu0.3 => 9.0.31-1ubuntu0.4] (no packageset)
[20:05] <tjaalton> xypron: sorry for the delay, but you're missing the sru information from two of the bugs
[20:06] <xypron> tjaalton: which ones?
[20:07] <tjaalton> 1996285 1995932
[20:11] <xypron> tjaalton: thanks for reviewing, I will add the missing information.
[21:45] <xypron> tjaalton: I have added the SRU templates to the two bug descriptions.
[23:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fio [amd64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [3.32-2] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libpappsomspp [amd64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.9.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libpappsomspp [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.9.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libpappsomspp [armhf] (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.9.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libpappsomspp [arm64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.9.0-1] (no packageset)


[11:52] <japanized> i wanna learn Java programming under Ubuntu OS.
[11:57] <japanized> but i do not know how to start up
[11:57] <japanized> can you give me some tips?