[12:16] <pips1> I tried a dist-upgrade and I had a problem and got stuck completely
[12:16] <pips1> but that was a week ago with build 22-sep
[12:16] <mhz> hmm
[12:16] <mhz> yeah
[12:16] <mhz> well, I am about to upgrade just now
[12:17] <mhz> (last time was 1 week ago)
[12:17] <mhz> oops, will have to close X...else, memory will complain
[12:18] <pips1> during the upgrade process, I was asked to decide about the configuration of file `/etc/login.defs'. I chose 'default' rather than 'install the package maintainer's version' and after that, my sudo password wasn't recognised anymore :(
[12:26] <pips1> .
[12:27] <nixternal> whats up with Firefox still displaying 6.06?  has a fix been released yet?
[12:29] <Burgundavia> nixternal: that is part of ubuntu-doc
[12:29] <nixternal> whoever did the current background, good job as well...i like it
[12:30] <nixternal> Burgundavia: ubuntu-doc was updated yesterday with the fix
[12:30] <Burgundavia> ah, then it will be in the new build
[12:31] <nixternal> well, apt-get upgrade should grab them, i would think
[12:31] <nixternal> i forgot to look at my Ubuntu setup before I jsut wiped it ;)
[12:32] <ogra> nixternal, we'll fix it after beta ... its wasnt in my focus
[12:32] <ogra> (but i'm aware of it and we discussed it in the edubuntu meeting today)
[12:32] <nixternal> cool
[12:32] <nixternal> actually..i will do that after class ;)
[12:33] <ogra> would be cool to have a complete new page ... but worst case i'll just quickly update the verson there
[12:33] <pips1> ogra: what is the 'primary' network interface for a LTSP setup? is the 'primary interface' intended as the internet interface or the thin clients interface?
[12:34] <RichEd> night all ...
[12:34] <pips1> good night RichEd
[12:34] <RichEd> :)
[12:35] <pips1> ogra: ^^^^ ?
[12:36] <ogra> pips1, there is no "primary" ...
[12:36] <ogra> you get a list from netcfg if it detects more than one
[12:37] <pips1> well, upon installation, I get asked to choose one as a "primary network interface"
[12:37] <pips1> eth0 bla
[12:37] <pips1> eth1 blabla
[12:38] <ogra> right
[12:38] <ogra> the one you chooes is used for outbound connections (internet)
[12:38] <ogra> the second will be used automaticaly for ltsp
[12:39] <pips1> I got an onboard gigabit nic, which i want to choose for the thin clients network, naturally, and I got an oldish 10/100 pci-nic which I want to use for the internet connection
[12:39] <pips1> ah, ok, thanks
[12:39] <ogra> the netcfg screen should show you the names ...
[12:39] <pips1> I does
[12:39] <ogra> (the blabla you see)
[12:39] <pips1> *it
[12:39] <ogra> right
[12:40] <ogra> the ltsp chooser doesnt, thats the bug i mentioned in the meeting ...
[12:40] <pips1> I noticed
[12:40] <ogra> if you onyl have two NICs you wont see the selector at all thugh
[12:40] <pips1> :)
[12:41] <pips1> well, I thought I only had two? but I am shown the selector?! (/me checks the mainboard manual to see if there is a second nic on the board already)
[12:42] <ogra> you are at the ltsp selector already ?
[12:42] <ogra> thats shown after "building ltsp chroot"
[12:43] <pips1> oh?
[12:44] <pips1> I got there pretty quickly after choosing the country and after it checked the cd dirs...
[12:44] <ogra> i'm talking about the second selector that doesnt show the names of the network cards, only ethX
[12:44] <pips1> right
[12:44] <ogra> that belongs to ltsp
[12:44] <pips1> no, I'm at the first selector
[12:44] <ogra> and is shown after the ltsp part
[12:44] <ogra> right
[12:44] <ogra> thats netcfg
[12:45] <pips1> so what does that do?
[12:45] <ogra> ltsp will just picjk the other if you have only two and not show the selector
[12:45] <pips1> ah
[12:45] <ogra> or it will show a warning that you have to configure ltsp manually if you only have one NIC at all
[12:45] <pips1> so netcfg always asks if there is more than one...
[12:45] <ogra> right
[12:46] <ogra> and ltsp always if there is >2 or =1
[12:46] <ogra> or if your NIC has the ltsp IP range (192.168.0.X)
[12:47] <ogra> or was it 10.X
[12:47] <ogra> i cant think anymore
[12:47] <pips1> makes sense to me (since regular ubuntu users aren't likely to have several nics, they wont be hassled by this question)
[12:47] <ogra> right
[12:47] <pips1> ogra: take care of yourself
[12:47] <pips1> I mean it
[12:48] <ogra> well, i had a whisky or two already :) i'll go to bed soon and just notify toillef that i need new isos in the morning ...
[12:48] <pips1> it's all good and well to to provide people with floss software, but look after your health, please :)
[12:48] <ogra> just cross your fingers that my bandwith is better by then
[12:48] <pips1> fingers crossed
[12:49] <ogra> dont worry about m yhealth, its fine ;)
[12:49] <ogra> i'm just tired ...
[12:49] <pips1> well well, ok
[12:49] <ogra> these release days are mostly filled with waiting for your isos
[12:49] <pips1> right
[12:49] <ogra> so i'm pretty tired once i have them and then start testing ...
[12:50] <pips1> it's a shame that the internet connection can't really be "timed" reliably...
[12:51] <pips1> and watching progress bars is strangely addictive :) but completely mind-numbing
[12:52] <pips1> progress bar addiction, heh
[12:55] <ogra> heh
[01:05] <pips1> ogra: build ltsp chroot fails on amd64
[01:06] <ogra> right
[01:06] <pips1> at 50%
[01:06] <ogra> on cosole 4 you will see it complaining about mknbi
[01:07] <ogra> (alt-f4)
[01:07] <pips1> strange, can't get console 4, i'm stuck in the install process menu
[01:07] <ogra> or did it fail with a different error ?
[01:08] <ogra> oh
[01:08] <pips1> well, I *did* press enter when i got the "build ltsp chroot failed" message, and that took me to the install process menu
[01:09] <pips1> and it isn't frozen or anything
[01:09] <pips1> but pressing alt-f4 doesn't give me the console...
[01:09] <ogra> well, alt-f4 or ctrl-atl-f4 sould get you to the console
[01:09] <pips1> I tried both
[01:10] <pips1> really bizarre
[01:10] <ogra> yeah
[01:11] <pips1> I mean, the keyboard seems to be working normally, i.e. I can navigate up and down in the menu
[01:11] <pips1> hm
[01:13] <pips1> hm, this is a usb keyboard, but it worked fine with dapper
[01:17] <pips1> ogra: I have now connected my apple keyboard and I can now access console 4 (so there seems to be a bug regarding my other usb keyboard)
[01:18] <pips1> however, the console is full of keyboard related messages, so I can see the original error message anymore... I must be able to find it in logs somewhere though, no?
[01:18] <pips1> *can't
[01:19] <ogra> yes, its in /var/log/syslog
[01:19] <pips1> but I don't have a shell available...
[01:20] <ogra> alt-f2
[01:20] <pips1> blank screen
[01:20] <ogra> not a message that tels yu to hit enter ?
[01:20] <pips1> grmbl
[01:20] <ogra> should be there on one of the consoles
[01:20] <pips1> nope, no message
[01:21] <pips1> but after I hit enter, I did indeed get a prompt :)
[01:21] <ogra> ah, might be caused by the former keyboard prob
[01:22] <pips1>  /var/log/syslog: no such file or directory
[01:22] <pips1> ah, sorry, hold on
[01:23] <pips1> I tried to use 'cat' rather than 'more'
[01:24] <pips1> strange, anyway
[01:26] <pips1> what the h...?!
[01:27] <pips1> after quitting more, I don't see my keyboard input appear at the prompt
[01:27] <pips1> ?!?
[01:34] <pips1> is there anything more intelligent than 'more' i can use to find whether it failed at mknbi ?
[01:34] <pips1> there isn't 'less' or 'grep' available :(
[01:48] <pips1> ogra: the last messages in the syslog aren't about mknbi, but apt-install: ltsp-server .... in-target: I: Retrieving Release... in-target E: Invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-6/Packages ... in-target: error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally ... Menu item 'ltsp-client-builder failed with error code 1 ...
[01:48] <pips1> hmmm
[01:49] <pips1> so maybe I have a buggered cd where the ltsp-server package is missing?!
[01:50] <pips1> got to get some sleep now, cu tomorrow
[06:16] <Burgundavia> ogra: you up still?
[07:41] <pips1> morning
[07:41] <LaserJock> little early for you cbx33, isn't it?
[07:41] <cbx33> LaserJock, nay
[07:42] <pips1> hey LaserJock, I was thinking the same thing :)
[07:42] <cbx33> little late for you though
[07:42] <cbx33> get to bed LaserJock
[07:43] <pips1> LaserJock: are you testing?
[07:44] <cbx33> right I have to go wash up and make breakfast and lunch
[07:44] <cbx33> I'll see you guys later on
[07:44] <pips1> cu
[07:44] <LaserJock> cya cbx33
[07:44] <LaserJock> pips1: no, I don't test :/
[07:45] <pips1> but you use dapper in daily life?
[07:47] <LaserJock> I have 2 dapper machines and 1 edgy
[07:47] <LaserJock> although I mostly work from an iMac and OS X (work)
[07:48] <pips1> ic
[07:52] <pips1> for me, it's about 70% dapper / 30% winXP (for photoshop, msie web testing) time-wise. I haven't got around to install wine and/or wmware on my dapper installation yet
[08:09] <pips1> ogra: amd64 from daily 28-sep build failed to build ltsp chroot, error message on console 4 is the same "invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-6/Packages"
[08:09] <TeePOG> good morning everyone
[08:09] <pips1> hi TeePOG
[08:09] <TeePOG> morning pips1, how goes?
[08:11] <pips1> personally, very well, thanks. edubuntu-cd-testing-wise: could be better :)
[08:17] <TeePOG> so i hear... i'd contribute, but i'm aware of where my strengths lie, and my coding-fu isn't strong yet ^.^
[08:33] <pips1> i386 live cd works
[08:35] <TeePOG> but...
[08:35] <TeePOG> i hear a "But..." in that sentence
[08:36] <pips1> nope
[08:37] <TeePOG> ah
[08:47] <pips1> I like the popularity indication in add/remove applications
[08:49] <pips1> well, since not many people have enabled the popularity contest, at the moment, all apps installed by default get five stars and almost all others get one star
[08:49] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:49] <LaserJock> that will be an issue
[08:50] <pips1> hopefully users will start to enable popcon
[08:50] <pips1> LaserJock: yeah
[08:51] <pips1> devs and maintainers might complain, but more importantly, general users will ask why the popularity ratings are so skewed
[08:52] <LaserJock> mhm
[08:52] <LaserJock> popcon kind of relys on having a level playing field to start with
[08:52] <LaserJock> which is certianly not the case for Main vs Universe apps
[08:53] <pips1> hmm
[08:53] <pips1> yeah
[08:54] <pips1> I wonder how the "scale" of the popularity is determined...
[08:55] <pips1> all education apps that are installed in edubuntu have one single star, obviously, none of the edubuntu users have enabled popcon
[08:56] <LaserJock> well, the number of edubuntu users probably isn't that much compared to Ubuntu
[08:56] <pips1> yep
[08:57] <TeePOG> does popcon work in dapper?
[08:57] <LaserJock> sure
[08:57] <LaserJock> it's just not turned on by default
[08:57] <TeePOG> apt-get install popcon?
[08:57] <TeePOG> or how do i enable?
[08:58] <LaserJock> it should already be installed
[08:58] <LaserJock> I think you need to dpkg-reconfigure it
[08:59] <TeePOG> it's not installed... brbr
[08:59] <TeePOG> brb*
[08:59] <TeePOG> oh
[08:59] <TeePOG> called popularity-contest
[08:59] <TeePOG> not popcon
[08:59] <TeePOG> right
[08:59] <RichEd> mornin'
[09:00] <LaserJock> TeePOG: sudo dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest
[09:00] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[09:00] <TeePOG> done LaserJock, thanks
[09:00] <pips1> e.g. thunderbird, java, adobe reader, xine, vlc, various kde apps, things like emacs, terminal in super user mode, ... hmm
[09:01] <pips1> ^^^^ they all have a two star rating
[09:01] <LaserJock> when we start getting decent popcon data we'd like to start prioritizing work with it
[09:01] <pips1> popularity contest is pretty skewed at the moment
[09:01] <LaserJock> in MOTU
[09:02] <TeePOG> but hang on, will apt then get the popularity rating from the repos as well?
[09:02] <LaserJock> TeePOG: what do you mean?
[09:02] <pips1> at the moment, it seems to pan out like this more or less: 5 stars : default ubuntu apps, 2 stars: default kubuntu apps, plus apps that are popular with popcon-savvy users (i.e. the developers and geeks)
[09:03] <TeePOG> will an apt frontend like Synaptic also display popularity ratings? or is it just on the Web?
[09:04] <pips1> TeePOG: It is in the "add/remove applications" in the applications menu
[09:04] <pips1> the stars are displayed next to the applications listed in there...
[09:04] <LaserJock> if we get a way of having decent data then it'll probably be in synaptic and adept too I would think
[09:05] <TeePOG> see, this is why i have coming in halfway through a conversation
[09:05] <TeePOG> *hate
[09:05] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:05] <TeePOG> anyway, mine doesn't show that... should I reboot first?
[09:05] <LaserJock> show what?
[09:05] <LaserJock> the stars?
[09:06] <LaserJock> are you on edgy?
[09:06] <TeePOG> yah
[09:06] <TeePOG> no, dapper... that's what i was asking earlier
[09:06] <LaserJock> well, the stars are in edgy
[09:06] <TeePOG> aww ok, nm then...
[09:06] <pips1> LaserJock: yes, the stars are in the edgy version only
[09:06] <TeePOG> i'm not upgrading, this is a production machine
[09:07] <TeePOG> but i'm glad to help with popcon data
[09:07] <pips1> :)
[09:08] <TeePOG> anyway, i'm very impressed with Autopackage recently... have you thought of including support for it?
[09:08] <TeePOG> not that it's hard to install or anything... it'll just simplify some installations
[09:09] <TeePOG> now that XaraXtreme is GPL, it's nice for our designers to have on the LTSP
[09:09] <TeePOG> since there's no free Doze or OS X version
[09:10] <LaserJock> I don't think any of the developers like autopackage so I'm thinking it probably won't be supported any time soon
[09:10] <TeePOG> coffee makes one more talkative and all that
[09:11] <TeePOG> yah, it was only a thought...
[09:12] <pips1> amd64 live cd works
[09:14] <LaserJock> RichEd: so are you talking with the webmasters about the Education space?
[09:14] <LaserJock> or does there need to be more of a plan
[09:15] <RichEd> LaserJock: there is a plan, and we are doveltailing ... here's the bigger picture:
[09:15] <RichEd> Matt Nuzum is the new webmaster for Canonical - All Ubuntu Web Resources : he is reviewing the entire fleet
[09:16] <RichEd> He has jurisdiction over us (education), but is happy for our independence, and we have as our internally appointed leader: drumroll .... Philipp Schroder
[09:16] <HedgeMage> RichEd: Have time for a quick pm?
[09:17] <pips1> ;-)
[09:17] <RichEd> HedgeMage: open up pm and fire away ... I'll get there after this thread
[09:17] <LaserJock> ok so pips1 is going to hand Education (or Edubuntu?) website stuff
[09:18] <LaserJock> *handle
[09:18] <RichEd> Yep. Let me get the thread done ... continues:
[09:18] <RichEd> Matt has been looking at the whole issue of "specialist or niche areas" and is proposing solution spaces ...
[09:18] <RichEd> We are not 100% happy with the term, but the concept is good as follows:
[09:19] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/education -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/education
[09:19] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/medical -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/medical
[09:19] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/icafe -> redirects to: www.ubuntu.com/solutions/icafe
[09:19] <RichEd> etc.
[09:20] <LaserJock> how many solition spaces are we talking about?
[09:20] <RichEd> So this will be "our official home page on ubuntu" = ubuntu for education.
[09:21] <RichEd> We, the internal community, will look after www.edubuntu.org and the relevent pages on wiki.edubuntu.org (which may merge more with wiki.ubuntu.org - under detabte abiut dual front end for same data)
[09:21] <RichEd> debate about
[09:21] <RichEd> same goes for help etc.
[09:21] <RichEd> What you and I were taling about last night is one step removed:
[09:22] <RichEd> ( ( ( core = official ubuntu ) internal community = edubuntu ) -> user community space <-)
[09:23] <RichEd> we are still debatind whether it should have an official edubuntu or ubuntu name or have some pre or suffix to indicate that it is not company official
[09:23] <RichEd> which is not just to "protect the official message" but also to allow us leeway & self control
[09:23] <LaserJock> right
[09:24] <RichEd> So if someone approaches ubuntu from the outside, in a formal way, they will land on:
[09:24] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com
[09:24] <RichEd> Find an easy & quick link to :
[09:24] <RichEd> www.ubuntu.com/education
[09:24] <RichEd> and on there find an easy and quick link to:
[09:24] <RichEd> *our new community space*
[09:25] <pips1> RichEd: you mean, if someone comes through the official ubuntu "front door", i.e. enters www.ubuntu.com, rather than using google and landing a some subsection ...
[09:25] <pips1> right
[09:26] <RichEd> We however, will as a comunity, pump *our new community space* as the preferred direct landing zone from our point of view
[09:27] <pips1> s/pump/pimp ? ;-)
[09:27] <LaserJock> are you seeing this "community space" as an Edubuntu thing or Education thing? product vs. solution
[09:28] <pips1> good question
[09:28] <RichEd> Ubuntu and Education : and the front page needs to demystify and clarify and explain how the whole and parts fit together.
[09:30] <RichEd> It also needs to be open enough and broad enough that we can have other people who are interested in open source and education, but not yet using our software to feel the need to join some of our maikling lists, or pop back for a regulr revisit.
[09:30] <LaserJock> right
[09:31] <RichEd> So, k12ltsp people need to feel welcome ... their input into what is good for a high school menu option, or which FOSS accounting package is good and easy to maintain is still relevant.
[09:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:32] <RichEd> Im my opinoin, there are lots of:
[09:32] <RichEd> Open Source & Education web sites ... but often formal and geared to adults and suits an decision makers
[09:33] <RichEd> + Teaching Content Web Sites web sites ... but not geared around Open Source
[09:33] <RichEd> + Kids Community Web Sites ... but not geared around Open Source
[09:33] <RichEd> If we can link the above into one space, with user/stakeholder category areas, we'll be more of a one stop site.
[09:34] <RichEd> And get the most frequent revisits.
[09:34] <LaserJock> yes
[09:34] <LaserJock> I'd really love to see that for Science
[09:34] <LaserJock> it's sorely lacking
[09:35] <RichEd> "so what's this open source stuff all about and what does it mean to me"
[09:35] <RichEd> "oh so I guess it does apply to me, are there any of my kind of people here"
[09:35] <LaserJock> I've thought about creating a similar "space" for open source scientific development
[09:35] <RichEd> "oh yes there they are and gee let me add my opinion to that comment"
[09:35] <RichEd> etc.
[09:36] <LaserJock> that would combine forums, ml, etc. with a sourceforge type thing to hold development
[09:36] <RichEd> LaserJock: if we get this right ... we'll be a model you can follow ;)
[09:37] <LaserJock> yeah, what I find right now for OSS science
[09:37] <RichEd> I am very glad to have pips1 assisting ... he is bouncing well between practical on the ground requirements and high level conceptual & theoretical focus ...f
[09:37] <LaserJock> is somebody creates a list of OSS software
[09:37] <RichEd> It is a good fit, and I think our angle is different to what is out there.
[09:37] <LaserJock> but not much of anything gets done toward actively pushing a community together
[09:37] <LaserJock> around a common goal
[09:38] <LaserJock> excellent, good work pips1
[09:38] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:38] <RichEd> I made this comment to pips1 the other day : Amazon don't write books. Amazon don't review books. But look at the buzz they have created by their community.
[09:39] <RichEd> Give a man a passion and a soap box ... and he will shout an opinion.
[09:39] <RichEd> Provided he feels comfortable in front of the audience.
[09:39] <LaserJock> mhm and feels like he's actually heard
[09:40] <RichEd> Our users are not comfortable in front of Hard Core Linux People.
[09:40] <LaserJock> at some level
[09:40] <RichEd> Even I am not, once or twice a week !
[09:40] <LaserJock> awww, we don't bite ;-)
[09:40] <LaserJock> I know what you're talking about
[09:40] <LaserJock> coming in as a chemist
[09:40] <RichEd> LaserJock: You're Mild Core Linux People
[09:40] <RichEd> ;)
[09:40] <LaserJock> exactly
[09:41] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: I beg to differ, I bite (but only when called for and only among consenting adults ;)
[09:41] <LaserJock> too much information
[09:41] <HedgeMage> LOL
[09:41] <LaserJock> reminds me of a blog post of a certain JaneW
[09:41] <RichEd> ??
[09:42] <HedgeMage> RichEd: a certain computer game she mentioned :)
[09:42] <LaserJock> bliss
[09:42] <HedgeMage> RichEd: I found the entry extremely sweet, TBH
[09:42] <LaserJock> I believe
[09:42] <RichEd> oh ... me remembers now ...
[09:42] <LaserJock> anyway
[09:42] <LaserJock> back to scare Linux geeks
[09:43] <RichEd> Right enuff thoery & pontification (and biting) off to serious work !
[09:43] <LaserJock> the thing that always is a problem for me is the inbetween
[09:43] <LaserJock> we have ubuntuforums.org
[09:43] <LaserJock> and we have ubuntu-devel
[09:44] <LaserJock> but that inbetween space, interface between developer and user
[09:44] <LaserJock> it can be rough
[09:44] <RichEd> yep ... and ubuntuforums is still not far enough out there into the target space ...
[09:44] <RichEd> We have "I use Ubuntu and I work to Educate"
[09:44] <LaserJock> so I wonder how this new community space is going to fair
[09:45] <RichEd> I want "I work to Educate and I use Ubuntu"
[09:45] <LaserJock> yep
[09:45] <RichEd> Subtle shift, but to me that's the difference between the 20:80 split
[09:46] <RichEd> We're doing well in the 20 space, but cbx33 and others like him are quite unique ... we need to jump into the cookie cutter 80 space
[09:46] <RichEd> The unifiorm masses.
[09:47] <LaserJock> but do you have a plan for the interface? is that something you want to address, or do you want to keep it somewhat segregated?
[09:47] <RichEd> And the *good* news is that the time is NOW ... all forces in the universe conspire to make this the ideal moment.
[09:47] <LaserJock> speak of the devil ;-)
[09:47] <RichEd> LaserJock: cbx33 like that ;)
[09:47] <HedgeMage> hey, cbx33
[09:48] <cbx33> what did I do now
[09:48] <LaserJock> scp is totally broken
[09:48] <cbx33> LaserJock: why aren't you in bed yet
[09:48] <cbx33> LaserJock: I know
[09:48] <LaserJock> and the sound were thrown out
[09:48] <cbx33> well...not totally
[09:48] <cbx33> pessulus integration is broken for now
[09:48] <RichEd> If I was a japanese general, I would be very happy with the portent and omens ... 2007 is the year of Open Source Mainstream. We need to get ready to give it a good smack.
[09:48] <ogra> pips1, can you get me the syslog of that failed amd64 install somehow ? thats very odd since there are no other CD builds planned i think
[09:48] <LaserJock> sabdfl decided to revert the edgy sounds ;-)
[09:49] <cbx33> LaserJock: really?
[09:49] <cbx33> oh well
[09:49] <LaserJock> cbx33: sorry had to give you a good morning wake up scare
[09:49] <ogra> i dont care much abut ppc, but having no amd64 CD is quite fatal
[09:49] <cbx33> LaserJock: are you kidding or serious
[09:49] <pips1> ogra: I only have a screenshot of the syslog (i.e. 1 screen worth of the last error msgs)
[09:49] <RichEd> awwww schucksss ... we're messing with your head dude ...
[09:49] <ogra> hmm
[09:49] <cbx33> it's too early here for me to know what's going on
[09:49] <cbx33> good i got worried
[09:50] <cbx33> as an anonymous onctributor bought me a new soundcard last night
[09:50] <LaserJock> cbx33: dude totally kidding, another 16 hr day is making me a little weird
[09:50] <cbx33> phew
[09:50] <HedgeMage> RichEd: Everyone's been saying "this is the year" since about 1996.  I tend to think it'll keep eeking in small spurts like it always has... hopefully edging toward less-infrequent medium-sized spurts over time.
[09:50] <cbx33> I couldn't believe it.....somone funded my new soundcard......didn;'t tell me which one...then I found out it was a 189 M-Audio Delta 1010
[09:51] <cbx33> I was so gobsmacked I almost fainted
[09:51] <RichEd> LaserJock: expand on this ... not quite sure exactly waht you mean: but do you have a plan for the interface? is that something you want to address, or do you want to keep it somewhat segregated?
[09:51] <cbx33> anyway, why am I the devil?
[09:51] <HedgeMage> cbx33: yay! congrats.
[09:52] <cbx33> HedgeMage: yeh....I'm still shocked
[09:52] <cbx33> but very very grateful
[09:52] <HedgeMage> cbx33: you deserve it, babe.  You rock.
[09:52] <LaserJock> RichEd: I can easily imagine this community space becoming like the forums (users getting mad at devs, devs irritated with stupid posts)
[09:52] <cbx33> thanks HedgeMage
[09:52] <cbx33> lisa has been working on the front cover
[09:52] <pips1> RichEd: I think LaserJock was talking about improving the direct interaction of developers and end users (i.e. the current "gap" between ubuntuforums and ubuntu-devel ml)
[09:52] <cbx33> wnt me to send a mockup to you later?
[09:53] <LaserJock> so that your educators get to grumble or whatever, but it doesn't reach a place where anything can be done
[09:53] <LaserJock> for instance, you mention maybe somebody has a good suggestion for dynamic menus, how am I going to get that info
[09:53] <HedgeMage> cbx33: that would be very awesome
[09:53] <cbx33> HedgeMage: when is our final deadline?
[09:54] <cbx33> pygi mentioned he is going WOI for a while soon?
[09:54] <HedgeMage> cbx33: If things continue as-is, we probably won't see a print version until sometime mid-October
[09:54] <cbx33> ok
[09:55] <pips1> ogra: would that amd64 error msg screenshot be of any use? should I send it to you?
[09:55] <HedgeMage> (That's being a little optimistic considering pygi's going away and my real-life schedule chaos, but I don't think it's unrealistic... I hope.)
[09:55] <TeePOG> i had a minor name confusion a couple days ago... got an email about Sabayon Linux, and immediately thought about Sabayon the ltsp menu manager
[09:55] <LaserJock> mhm
[09:56] <LaserJock> I went to the sabayon linux IRC channel at least twice
[09:56] <ogra> pips1, no
[09:56] <ogra> i'll do a test install myself
[09:57] <cbx33> yup it's pretty cool
[09:58] <pips1> ogra: ppc is currently totally oversized... right?
[10:00] <cbx33> ogra: vuntz seemed happy with my update to pessulus, conceptually
[10:00] <pips1> -rw-rw-r-- 1 philipp philipp 783163392 2006-09-28 01:57 edgy-live-powerpc.iso
[10:00] <RichEd> hello ... adsl reset :(
[10:01] <RichEd> where did I drop out ?
[10:01] <HedgeMage> welcome back :)
[10:01] <pips1> RichEd: you didn't miss anything here
[10:01] <RichEd> HedgeMage: I'll repeat my speech to you in msg window :)
[10:01] <cbx33> HedgeMage: the cover is kinda in the vein of the new gnome splash screen
[10:01] <cbx33> I'll get a copy to you tonight
[10:01] <HedgeMage> RichEd: hehe cool
[10:01] <HedgeMage> cbx33: you two rock
[10:04] <ogra> pips1, yes, see my comments on -devel
[10:04] <ogra> (only live though)
[10:04] <pips1> ah
[10:08] <LaserJock> heh
[10:12] <pips1> ... with 'Disk Usage Analyser', 'Floppy Formatter' and 'System Log'
[10:12] <pips1> huh?
[10:12] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what you installed exactly
[10:13] <pips1> it's default edubuntu live cd (i386)
[10:13] <pips1> edgy, daily build 28-sep
[10:14] <LaserJock> you installed from the livecd or you are in the livecd?
[10:14] <pips1> not installed, just live
[10:15] <pips1> and the menu's are the same, on the amd64 live cd, too, so I think this is what we will get with edgy...
[10:16] <LaserJock> ok, yeah the livecd has more stuff liek gparted
[10:17] <pips1> ah, ic
[10:18] <pips1> LaserJock: you said you weren't comfortable with the default wallpaper, to show to your science colleagues?
[10:18] <cbx33> HedgeMage: I'm going to try to write some docs for Student Control Panel for you for the handbook soon
[10:19] <HedgeMage> cbx33: That would be *AWESOME*
[10:20] <LaserJock> pips1: well, the current edgy one isn't bad
[10:20] <LaserJock> although I then think it might not be as "fun" for kids
[10:21] <pips1> ogra: ok, got to do some day job stuff now, let me know how your amd64 turns out :)
[10:21] <pips1> *amd64 test
[10:21] <pips1> young kids or teenagers?
[10:22] <LaserJock> young kids
[10:22] <pips1> but they have the homies :)
[10:22] <RichEd> LaserJock ->
[10:23] <LaserJock> pips1: by default?
[10:23] <cbx33> no
[10:23] <LaserJock> that's my poing
[10:23] <LaserJock> pint
[10:23] <LaserJock> point
[10:23] <LaserJock> there
[10:24] <cbx33> you made a lot of p's there
[10:24] <pips1> right
[10:24] <ogra> pips1, i doubt we'll have an opportunity to fix anything ... and i just got my isos ...
[10:24] <ogra> so beta might be i386 only for us :(
[10:24] <pips1> :/
[10:25] <pips1> that's bad news...
[10:25] <pips1> amd64 needs wide testing too...
[10:25] <ogra> let me see ...
[10:25] <cbx33> what's up with it?
[10:25] <ogra> i have never seen such an error ...
[10:25] <cbx33> i can probably test it in a while on my work machine.....if i can find a spare HDD
[10:25] <ogra> and i need to finish the running ppc test first so i can be on IRC with it if smething goes weird
[10:27] <pips1> are they discussing the beta release time in -devel, or smth?
[10:27] <pips1> ogra: see the discussion in -devel !
[10:28] <Laser_away> good night people
[10:29] <cbx33> nn Laser_away
[10:29] <cbx33> can believe I believed you
[10:29] <cbx33> can't
[10:29] <pips1> hehe
[10:29] <pips1> cu Laser_away
[10:35] <TeePOG> ping RichEd
[10:35] <RichEd> hey TeePOG ... I'm here now ... hit me in the message window
[10:49] <pips1> btw, ogra, I just atttended a national 'Education and ICT' decision makers conference... lots of valuable inputs on the current thinking about ICT in Education...
[10:55] <ogra> nice
[11:12] <pips1> ah, shoot, I wanted to attend the http://www.learning-communities.at/ conference, but I'm booked for another conference on 9./10.Nov already :-/
[11:29] <pygi> morning
[11:30] <HedgeMage> hi pygi
[11:30] <pygi> hey HedgeMage, how are you?
[11:32] <TeePOG> morning pygi
[11:32] <pygi> hey TeePOG :)
[11:32] <TeePOG> how goes it with pygi?>
[11:32] <pygi> TeePOG: hm, bad? :)
[11:32] <HedgeMage> pygi: about to get to bed
[11:32] <pygi> HedgeMage: oh, oki, good night then, sleep well
[11:33] <TeePOG> what's wrong pygi?
[11:33] <pygi> TeePOG: nothing serious, don't worry
[11:34] <TeePOG> shout if I can help pygi
[11:34] <pygi> TeePOG: not really, but thanks :)
[11:34] <TeePOG> np
[11:45] <pygi> hey Yagisan, ogra
[11:52] <TeePOG> hi there ogra
[11:55] <HedgeMage> Must... sleep...
[11:55] <HedgeMage> later, guys :)
[11:56] <pygi> laters HedgeMage
[11:56] <HedgeMage> night night
[12:12] <Yagisan> G'day pygi
[12:12] <pygi> hey again Yagisan :)
[12:13] <pygi> nice, I'm not :)
[12:13] <Yagisan> paid work, and the customers are so happy with my work - they are telling their friends :D
[12:13] <Yagisan> er what's up pygi ?
[12:14] <pygi> Yagisan: hehe, nice :)
[12:14] <pygi> Yagisan: I'm useless:)
[12:14] <pygi> nothing else :)
[12:15] <Yagisan> pygi, really ?
[12:16] <Yagisan> hmm. It sucks that I can't do a BIOS upgrade from within Ubuntu
[12:16] <TeePOG> now pygi has a use ^.^
[12:16] <pygi> TeePOG: !!!
[12:16] <Yagisan> I need to get my hands on a spare disk and FreeDOS
[12:17] <TeePOG> Yagisan: how about running freedos in qemu?
[12:17] <Yagisan> evil evil broken acpi.
[12:17] <TeePOG> i ask in ignorance
[12:17] <Yagisan> TeePOG, nope - I need to flash the BIOS
[12:18] <TeePOG> ahh Yagisan, i didn't read properly
[12:18] <Yagisan> TeePOG, the ACPI is so broken that the motherboard resources and network card conflict - and the driver bombs out
[12:18] <TeePOG> anyway, i prefer Hirens boot disk mostly, but never used it wiff a broken ACPI
[12:21] <Yagisan> er - I don't have a single floppy disk in the house (I do however have a 3.5" and 5.25" drive that have not been used in years)
[12:25] <TeePOG> i know Nero has an option to take a floppy img and burn a bootable CD from it
[12:26] <TeePOG> no clue how in linux though
[12:26] <pygi> TeePOG: libburn & libisofs!!!
[12:26] <pygi> not yet tho :)
[12:28] <cbx33> RichEd: pygi  sorry got d/c'd after slashing my wrist
[12:28] <cbx33> seriously
[12:28] <cbx33> could you resend pms?
[12:28] <RichEd> are you okay ?
[12:28] <cbx33> yes
[12:28] <cbx33> i was putting filing cabinet drawers in to a cabinet
[12:28] <cbx33> they were being buggers
[12:29] <cbx33> didn't realise the rungs on the side had sliced my wrists
[12:29] <pygi> :-/
[12:29] <cbx33> fingers can still move
[12:29] <TeePOG> damn @_@
[12:29] <cbx33> so I guess nothing serious was cut
[12:29] <TeePOG> did you sever any tendons?
[12:30] <cbx33> doesn't seem like it
[12:31] <pygi> cbx33: resent
[12:32] <cbx33> argh i wasn't identified hold on RichEd and pygi
[12:33] <Yagisan> O_o
[12:34] <cbx33> out first aid lady was like...I can use an antiseptic wipe...but it will sting
[12:34] <cbx33> hehehe
[12:34] <cbx33> I said go on then.....
[12:34] <cbx33> didn't sting
[12:34] <cbx33> mild tickling....:p
[12:34] <pygi> heh :p
[12:45] <cbx33> am I still here?
[12:45] <ogra> nope
[12:46] <ogra> youre hallucinating
[12:46] <cbx33> phew
[12:46] <cbx33> I thought my connection had dropped
[01:06] <cbx33> can someone dig me an ip for mail.google.com
[01:06] <cbx33> seems our DNS servers are down
[01:16] <RichEd> cbx33: <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:28] <gnomefreak> <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:24] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:25] <pygi> hey ho bddebian
[02:26] <bddebian> Hi pygi :-)
[03:06] <RichEd> pygi: we're sposed to be chatting !
[03:07] <pygi> RichEd: 1 hour ago!
[03:07] <RichEd> got my times mixed up .. do you have time now ?
[03:07] <pygi> RichEd: not really (packaging stuff) but lets do it
[03:08] <ogra> pips1: even though i have fixed the amd64 buig, the amd64 CD is still broken ... apparetnly the kernel package was renamed on amd64 but there is no transitional (empty) package with teh old name on the cd, but your install tests were very very helpful, thanks a lot
[03:09] <pygi> ogra: we can't get another rebuild I guess?
[03:09] <ogra> no, i dont think that fits in teh timeframe
[03:09] <ogra> but hey, its only amd64 ...
[03:10] <pygi> indeed, ...
[03:10] <ogra> and tomorrows daily will be fine
[03:10] <ogra> i know whats broken (actually i fixed it on the install thats running here, so it installs fine now)
[03:10] <pygi> nice
[03:13] <pips1> ogra: ok
[03:51] <bidouille> hello
[03:52] <bidouille> quelqu'un parle t il franais ?
[03:52] <bidouille> no french language people ?
[03:52] <bidouille> ok
[03:52] <pygi> Comment pouvons-nous vous aider ?
[03:53] <bidouille> merci pygi mon anglais is so bad
[03:53] <pygi> Mon Franais est mauvais :P
[03:53] <bidouille> je cherche  connaitre la config mini pour un edubuntu client alone
[03:54] <pygi> Quel genre de config ? Edubuntu devrait faire l'installation de base pour vous
[03:54] <bidouille> config matriel minimum
[03:55] <pygi> bidouille: conditions minimales de matriel?
[03:55] <pygi> oh
[03:55] <pygi> :P
[03:55] <bidouille> j'ai un vieux pc fujitsu sunlight avec  MO ram est ce suffisant ?
[03:55] <bidouille> yes conditions minimales de matriel
[03:56] <bidouille> 32 Mo
[03:56] <pygi> bddebian: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements
[03:56] <bidouille> thanks
[03:56] <pygi> bidouille: excusez-moi pour ma mauvaise langue :P
[03:57] <bidouille> c'e'st bon quand mme merci encore
[03:57] <bidouille> bye
[03:57] <pygi> bye
[03:58] <pygi> o joy :P
[03:59] <bddebian> pygi: Looks good :-)
[03:59] <pygi> bddebian: not really :
[03:59] <pygi> :P
[04:01] <pygi> bddebian: my French is very bad, and based on things I learned from listening other people talk :P
[04:03] <bddebian> pygi: Oh, well I was reading it in English :)
[04:04] <pygi> bddebian: oh :P
[04:11] <jingl3> ogra: Hi - yesterday you suggested I look for a line containing usplash in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm
[04:12] <ogra> jingl3: yep
[04:12] <jingl3> but no lines in ldm contain "usplash". I'm running Dapper. Did I understand you correctly?
[04:12] <ogra> and change stop to start there
[04:12] <ogra> yes, but i was wrong ... sorry, i was very tired last night ...
[04:13] <ogra> wrong file :)
[04:13] <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client is teh right one
[04:13] <ogra> it starts ldm ...
[04:14] <jingl3> Ok, thanks. The system is online now so I can get back to you. Hope you've gotten some sleep!
[04:14] <ogra> some (4) hours, yes
[04:15] <ogra> but now that the beta release is out, can relax a bit
[04:15] <ogra> s/out/done/ (its not officially released yet)
[04:16] <lguerra> RichEd: Pign
[04:16] <pygi> hopefully infinity can kick libburn now that it's fixed
[04:16] <lguerra> *ping
[04:19] <RichEd> lguerra: pong
[04:26] <jingl3> ogra: That little critter booted up fine now! Many thanks. I'm looking forward to giving the beta a test drive.
[04:27] <ogra> you will be surprised ;) edgy is far beyond dapper feature wise :)
[04:28] <pygi> ogra: and edgy+1 should be far beyond edgy feature wise :)
[04:28] <ogra> in edgy+1 we will have ltsp5 ;)
[04:28] <ogra> which will be based on our code from edgy
[04:28] <pygi> ogra: and burning over ltsp if all goes well ;)
[04:28] <ogra> yeah
[04:29] <ogra> and mic support
[04:29] <ogra> and volume control :)
[04:29] <pygi> right =)
[04:29] <pygi> basicly, we'll rock even more then we do now
[04:29] <ogra> and the base for local app support
[04:29] <pygi> in case I don't get to visit UDS, we'll have to spec burning support over irc or something
[04:31] <jingl3> Great stuff! Many thanks for all your hard work. Nice being with you, I'm off now.
[04:32] <pygi> jingl3: bye :)
[05:06] <pygi> hey a lot of people :P
[05:06] <cbx33> hi pygi
[05:06] <cbx33> hey Yagisan
[05:07] <Yagisan> evening all
[05:07] <cbx33> Yagisan: my new PC is much happier now :)
[05:07] <Yagisan> oh ? It retired ?
[05:08] <cbx33> yup
[05:08] <cbx33> I have a new machine now, as a birthday present
[05:08] <ogra> yo sbalneav
[05:08] <Yagisan> cbx33, what specs ?
[05:08] <Yagisan> cbx33, and does it run doom :P
[05:09] <sbalneav> ogra, guess what I'm booted on?
[05:09] <ogra> yay
[05:09] <pygi> hey sbalneav
[05:09] <ogra> did everything work out of the box as expected ?
[05:10] <sbalneav> The only thing I had to do was add myself to the fuse group
[05:10] <ogra> right
[05:10] <sbalneav> Other than that, sound + localdevs == perfect.
[05:10] <ogra> if you add a normal desktop user with the gui tool, he will be in the fuse group
[05:11] <ogra> its just the admin accoiunt thats not added there
[05:12] <cbx33> sorry forgot to disable apt
[05:12] <cbx33> and it started syncing
[05:12] <cbx33> Yagisan: yes I have a 4200 X2 now :D
[05:13] <Yagisan> cbx33, video ?
[05:13] <cbx33> 7300GT OC
[05:14] <cbx33> it's niiice !
[05:18] <sbalneav> Yep, everything seems to be working nicely ootb
[05:18] <sbalneav> (out of the box)
[05:22] <Yagisan> cbx33, could I get a copy of the output from glxinfo -l from that card
[05:24] <ogra> sbalneav: sexy :)
[05:25] <sbalneav> ogra: Want me to ask jammcq if you can call it an ltsp5 prerelease?
[05:25] <ogra> that would be cool
[05:25] <ogra> i wouldnt dare to do so :)
[05:25] <sbalneav> k, gimme a sec
[05:29] <sbalneav> ltsp5 for the win
[05:30] <ogra> yay :)
[05:31] <willvdl> ogra, have you ever heard of/looked at openlab?
[05:58] <pygi> bon appetit RichEd
[06:01] <RichEd> merci
[06:01] <willvdl> ping og,
[06:01] <willvdl> ogra rather :)
[06:01] <ogra> pong
[06:02] <willvdl> have you ever looked at openlab?
[06:03] <ogra> "Modular imaging software for cell biologists " ?
[06:03] <ogra> or CERN openlab for datagrid operations ?
[06:03] <willvdl> getopenlab :)
[06:03] <ogra> oh ,and there seems to be an openlab for magicians as well :)
[06:04] <willvdl> dude :)
[06:04] <ogra> heh
[06:04] <willvdl> openlab is a slackware based educ company
[06:04] <ogra> ah
[06:04] <ogra> poor them ... why did they choose slackware ?
[06:04] <willvdl> major claim to fame is only really successfull opensource schools implementation on a large scale in africa
[06:04] <willvdl> I asked that too
[06:05] <ogra> thats painful
[06:05] <ogra> for them as well as for the users
[06:05] <willvdl> anyhoo, they are considering an ubuntu base
[06:05] <ogra> yay
[06:05] <willvdl> they've also got some good developers apparently
[06:05] <willvdl> they've had localdev support for over a year
[06:05] <ogra> give them the edgy edubuntu beta to have a look
[06:05] <ogra> they need two NICs on the server
[06:06] <willvdl> and scp style customisation from ground up
[06:06] <ogra> and we're surely lacking developers, so everybody is welcome to join in
[06:07] <willvdl> if they come to the light there could be some serious perks for edubuntu
[06:07] <willvdl> in terms of experienced in-school (3rd world) players
[06:07] <ogra> sounds really great !
[06:08] <willvdl> I've got their dvd's. Will filter some useful links for if you have time
[06:08] <ogra> make them come in here :)
[06:08] <willvdl> working on it ...
[06:09] <ogra> nice :)
[06:26] <sbalneav> I am officially declaring Edubuntu edgy eft edition ready for end user work.
[06:26] <ogra> :D
[06:26] <sbalneav> I won the first game of freecell on it I played, with no do-overs
[06:26] <ogra> haha
[06:27] <sbalneav> If FREECELL works, everything else MUST be ok.
[06:27] <pygi> sbalneav: haha :)
[06:27] <sbalneav> It's my little superstition
[06:28] <sbalneav> Say, where's the menu editor?
[06:29] <pygi> alacarte?
[06:29] <sbalneav> yeah
[06:29] <Amaranth> System->Preferences->Menu Layout
[06:29] <ogra> right click the menu
[06:29] <Amaranth> damn<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:P
[06:29] <sbalneav> ah
[06:30] <sbalneav> Not to be insensitive, but I keep going for a terminal, and keep trying to turn on the accessibility options. :)
[06:33] <LaserJock> wahoo
[06:34] <LaserJock> lots of archive processing
[06:37] <pips1> ?
[06:44] <LaserJock> sorry
[06:44] <LaserJock> we've been waiting for the archive team to process new packages and sync
[06:44] <LaserJock> Universe Freeze is today
[06:49] <sbalneav> ogra: one of the things we'll need to spec out for similar functionality is an auto-login feature for ldm.  Should be easy to do with keys, but you'd be absolutely shocked at the number of people wanting kiosk type things, where you just turn on the box and autologin as someone.  We'll just need to turn the crank on the code.
[06:51] <pips1> sbalneav: interesting. I imagined that kiosk mode is really something that lots of people want..
[06:52] <sbalneav> Yep, it's probably the second biggest request after localdevs.
[06:52] <pips1> ic
[06:53] <pips1> it's useful in lots of places... not only iCafes, but also in the school library, etc
[06:53] <pygi> sbalneav: ergh, no, it's not, libburn is :)
[06:53] <sbalneav> heh, well, libburn's important too :)
[06:54] <pygi> Imagine thin client kiosks which can burn Edubuntu cd's for you :)
[06:54] <LaserJock> freedom toaster
[06:54] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what about local apps?
[06:55] <sbalneav> Local apps is big, but numbers wise, not as many, because fewer people have "really powerful" thin clients to run a local app on.
[06:56] <sbalneav> For every place that has 15 Pentium 4's with 512 megs that they want to run firefox locally on, there's 3 libraries in Brazil looking for autologon.
[06:57] <sbalneav> Local apps NEEDS to get specced out for this release, but autologon's easy, it's just a case of setting up some appropriate keys.
[06:57] <sbalneav> and having some way to map a key/loginid pair to a specific mac address/ip address.
[06:58] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what exactly would local apps take?
[06:58] <sbalneav> That's pretty much just an exercise in shell scripting :)
[06:58] <LaserJock> you put the packages in the client chroot
[06:58] <sbalneav> Local apps is harder.
[06:58] <LaserJock> and then you have to get X from the client to the server?
[06:58] <sbalneav> First, if I'm going to run Firefox locally, I need my home dir mounted on the thin client.
[06:58] <LaserJock> ah
[06:59] <sbalneav> Plus, my thin client needs to know who "*I*" am, which means some kind of network authentication, i.e. ldap.
[06:59] <sbalneav> THEN, you need to have some kind of plumbing thing going on, where when I click on the firefox app on my desktop, it REMOTELY starts firefox on the terminal.
[07:00] <LaserJock> I'd be happy if you could just load up an app in a temp space on the client
[07:00] <LaserJock> without ~/
[07:00] <sbalneav> None of it's impossible, but it's a lot of messy plumbing that needs to get put in place.  The hard part's making it easy.
[07:00] <LaserJock> and have some way of maybe getting files scp'ed back
[07:00] <sbalneav> Yeah, but name me an app that doesn't need to save data somewhere.
[07:00] <LaserJock> I'm talking 1 shot apps
[07:01] <LaserJock> all of the apps I want are pretty much like that
[07:01] <LaserJock> you're teaching a lab
[07:01] <sbalneav> Well, we basically know how to do it, the only blocker at this point is the ldap.
[07:01] <sbalneav> So, one of the specs we'll need to work on is the ldap authentication.
[07:01] <LaserJock> yeah, I know that needs to be done anyway
[07:02] <LaserJock> I just want my local apps, darn it! ;-)
[07:02] <sbalneav> edgy+1
[07:02] <sbalneav> At least INSTALLING the local app is now easy.
[07:02] <sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; apt-get install whateverappyouwant
[07:03] <LaserJock> now don't you need an ssh server on the client in addition to the app?
[07:03] <LaserJock> so that you can X forward back to the server?
[07:04] <sbalneav> No, you simply display the output locally on the client.
[07:04] <sbalneav> Remember: that's where the X server REALLY is :)
[07:04] <LaserJock> oh hmm
[07:05] <sbalneav> BUT you may need ssh or something to START the app.
[07:05] <LaserJock> I don't know how you guys keep track of this stuff ;-)
[07:05] <sbalneav> Unless I get up off my *ss and try to write the dbus-over-x-atoms thing.
[07:05] <crimsun> that sounds evil
[07:05] <sbalneav> nah,
[07:06] <sbalneav> It's actually quite elegant, because if you're tunnelling X over ssh, then your dbus messages will be encrypted as well.
[07:06] <sbalneav> I can program X atoms, what I NEED is a good introduction to dbus!
[07:07] <LaserJock> hmm, ok. In reality I could install an app into my client chroot, fire up the client, ssh into the client and start up the app, right?
[07:07] <sbalneav> yep
[07:08] <sbalneav> but then the apps running as root.
[07:08] <LaserJock> oh wait, but that's where I would need to also install the ssh server on to the client
[07:08] <LaserJock> hmm, root within the client?
[07:08] <LaserJock> not on the server though
[07:09] <sbalneav> Yeah, thats what the X server runs as on the client: remember, the client doesn't know ANYTHING about who you're logged in as: that's all just X packets.
[07:09] <LaserJock> right, and I don't really care who is logged into use the particular apps I'm talking about
[07:10] <LaserJock> they don't login or save data right now anyway
[07:10] <sbalneav> You could basically do something half-assed now, with a little fiddling.
[07:10] <LaserJock> interesting thought anyway
[07:11] <sbalneav> Anyway, LUNCH TIME, be back in an hour.
[07:38] <ogra> sbalneav, i'm totally not shocked and its n my todo list snce dapper to have an autologin ;)
[07:39] <LaserJock> ogra: so did Edubuntu get a beta?
[07:39] <ogra> LaserJock, powerpc and i386 install beta and amd64 i386 live beta
[07:40] <LaserJock> heh
[07:40] <LaserJock> well I'm covered then
[07:40] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:40] <ogra> amd64 will be fixed with the next build (there is a bug with the kernel package), and poerpc was obviously broken due to an LP bug that made it grow by 70M
[07:41] <LaserJock> what happened there?
[07:41] <LaserJock> seed problem?
[07:44] <ogra> well, nobody thought about including the transitional package for linux image after it was renamed from amd64-generic to amd64
[07:44] <ogra> err, to -generic, sorry
[07:44] <ogra> which breaks ltsp ....
[07:45] <ogra> i'll depend on -generic with the next upoad ... bt the missing transitional package will bite upgrading users
[07:46] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:08] <cbx33> evenin
[08:11] <sbalneav> ogra: so, what's with the bug picture of Germany?  Something on the lens of the satellite?  I wouldn't think that possible!
[08:12] <ogra> these pics arent taken by sattelite :)
[08:12] <ogra> they take them by plane ...
[08:13] <ogra> (i once worked for a mapping company, the quality of sattelite pics you can release for non military stuff isnt that great)
[08:13] <sbalneav> Ah, ok, makes sense then.
[08:14] <cbx33> what is this?
[08:14] <cbx33> you guys got me interested now
[08:14] <sbalneav> I'm guessing at least 35m
[08:15] <sbalneav> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&q=Germany&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=48.857699,10.205451&spn=0.002404,0.006738&om=1
[08:15] <ogra> heh
[08:15] <sbalneav> Prolly closer to 40
[08:16] <sbalneav> LOOK OUT!  IT'LL CHEW YER HEAD CLEAN OFF!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
[08:16] <pygi> !!!
[08:16] <cbx33> heheheh
[08:21] <cbx33> ping LaserJock
[08:24] <pygi> hey HedgeMage ;
[08:24] <HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
[08:24] <cbx33> pygi, HedgeMage w00t
[08:25] <HedgeMage> hehe
[08:25] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[08:25] <rodarvus> ogra, what kind of software do they use to do the composition of the images?
[08:26] <ogra> rodarvus, erdas and arcview for glueing together the tiles ...
[08:26] <rodarvus> sbalneav, you can note the (huge) difference of the satellite images to airplane images - just zoom out a little and after the fifth or sixth zoom out the image quality drops immensely
[08:27] <LaserJock> cbx33: pong
[08:28] <ogra> rodarvus, the company i worked for made 3D surface models for telcos ... they took the pics from two angles and had a software that computed a 3D model from it ... one copy of this SW costed 500000 and you could only buy it from the pentagon directly
[08:28] <cbx33> LaserJock, hiowz it going
[08:29] <ogra> most funny was that the license was bound to the MAC address of the NIC and it costed 10000 to change the license ... so every time a NIC went south it was a very expensive NIC ;)
[08:30] <rodarvus> haha
[08:30] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/handbook.jpg
[08:30] <rodarvus> well, you can forge the mac address of a nic, but I wouldn't know if this software has protections against mac address forging
[08:31] <ogra> it only ran under NT4 and had a dongle that checked the HW
[08:31] <cbx33> NT4
[08:31] <cbx33> didn;t you spew
[08:31] <ogra> well, in the evenings we had great UT matches on this machines ;)
[08:32] <cbx33> heheh
[08:32] <cbx33> ogra, did you ever play counterstrike source?
[08:32] <ogra> anyway, dinner time ...
[08:32] <ogra> cbx33, nope
[08:32] <cbx33> one day I'll have to givey ou a game ;)
[08:33] <cbx33> HedgeMage, pygi seen the link?
[08:34] <HedgeMage> Ooohhh, I like.
[08:34] <HedgeMage> You two always remind me how graphically impaired I am :P
[08:34] <HedgeMage> ;)
[08:35] <cbx33> pygi, you don;t like it?
[08:35] <pygi> cbx33: haven't said that ;)
[08:36] <cbx33> won;t comment - sound like biting ones tongue
[08:36] <HedgeMage> I thought he was not commenting on my grapical-impairedness.
[08:36] <cbx33> I got pygi's message first
[08:36] <pygi> cbx33: it's nice, don't worry :)
[08:36] <HedgeMage> I got them in the other order.
[08:36] <cbx33> HedgeMage, :p
[08:36] <HedgeMage> It's way better than what I came up with!
[08:37] <LaserJock> I have a comment
[08:37] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:37] <HedgeMage> That's not a comment, that's a facial expression :P
[08:37] <LaserJock> I think you should use one of the other fonts for the main "Handbook"
[08:38] <LaserJock> it's a little to childish for me
[08:38] <LaserJock> I'd like it on the side better
[08:38] <LaserJock> and perhaps even have more "young" looking fonts too on teh side
[08:38] <cbx33> like comic sans
[08:38] <cbx33> (becare ful how you reply)
[08:39] <LaserJock> heh
[08:39] <LaserJock> I want all the MS fonts
[08:39] <LaserJock> but I really like it
[08:40] <LaserJock> I just think that you should swap out the main "Handbook" with one of the other ones
[08:40] <LaserJock> but since I also have no graphic ability whatsoever
[08:40] <cbx33> notes passed to lisa
[08:40] <LaserJock> I'll just leave it as a comment ;-)
[08:40] <cbx33> HedgeMage, what do yo uthink?
[08:40] <cbx33> pygi, ?
[08:41] <pygi> cbx33: nice for me
[08:41] <HedgeMage> cbx33: LaserJock's suggestions sound good.
[08:41] <cbx33> ok
[08:41] <HedgeMage> cbx33: I'll know if I like it after I see it, I'm not best at picturing things beforehand
[08:41] <cbx33> lisa said cool she'll try that
[08:41] <HedgeMage> Of course, that's why I make things work, not pretty ;)
[08:44] <LaserJock> cbx33: what size is that, btw?
[08:44] <cbx33> 800
[08:44] <cbx33> x something
[08:44] <LaserJock> the size of the cover might affect it somewhat
[08:45] <LaserJock> but that can get hashed out later I suppose
[08:45] <cbx33> yeh
[08:45] <cbx33> we can shift things around
[08:51] <sbalneav> HedgeMage!!!
[08:51] <sbalneav> Seen all the work I've been doing? :)
[08:52] <cbx33> sbalneav, you rock dude
[08:53] <sbalneav> If you've seen any pictures of me, you'd see my shape is more conducive to rolling :)
[08:54] <cbx33> sbalneav, come on then where' s a pic
[08:54] <sbalneav> hmm
[08:55] <sbalneav> Gimme a few minutes, I'll see if I can post something.
[08:57] <sbalneav> heh, look at my hackergotchi on launchpad
[08:58] <sbalneav> That'll give you a rough idear.
[08:58] <HedgeMage> sbalneav: Haven't yet, but I'm just catching up a bit
[09:00] <LaserJock> ogra's got some
[09:00] <LaserJock> from Paris
[09:00] <LaserJock> I was looking at today
[09:00] <HedgeMage> Oooh! LTSP goodness!
[09:01] <HedgeMage> Thank you!
[09:01] <sbalneav> Lots more work to do.  Not finished by ANY strech of the imagination.
[09:01] <cbx33> sbalneav, you still rock ;)
[09:01] <sbalneav> I'm putting in about 2hrs/day on it for the next 2 weeks.
[09:01] <sbalneav> Added a couple of sections, cleaned up some stuff, etc etc etc etc.
[09:02] <LaserJock> I guess we'll just have to rename it
[09:02] <LaserJock> Edubuntu Handbook -> The Definitive Guide to LTSP ;-)
[09:03] <sbalneav> Jim McQuillan, my buddy from LTSP said we were welcome to use as much of his doco as was applicable, I just need to figure out the best way to attribute him for his contribs, probably in the intro.
[09:06] <LaserJock> darn
[09:07] <LaserJock> I keep getting tickled :/
[09:08] <LaserJock> shesh, I get no respect
[09:09] <HedgeMage> Funny, men don't usually complain when randomly assaulted by fun, geeky women :P
[09:09] <LaserJock> heh
[09:10] <LaserJock> too tired and too married ;-)
[09:10] <HedgeMage> LOL
[09:10] <cbx33> HedgeMage, are you calling me a woman
[09:10] <LaserJock> hahaha
[09:10] <HedgeMage> rofl
[09:11] <cbx33> and a fun geeky one at that
[09:11] <HedgeMage> nah, I typed it before you assaulted him, after I did
[09:11] <cbx33> HedgeMage, are you getting lag?
[09:11] <cbx33> hehehe
[09:11] <LaserJock> oh man
[09:11] <cbx33> awww thankyou HedgeMage
[09:11] <LaserJock> somebody throw some water on HedgeMage, she's getting all touchy ;-)
[09:11] <HedgeMage> :)
[09:11] <HedgeMage> roflmao
[09:12] <LaserJock> there goes the proffesional image of Edubuntu ;-)
[09:12] <LaserJock> it's all cuddly and tickly
[09:18] <sbalneav> Oooh, are we getting all cuddly and tickly?  You'll all remember I come from Canada where we LEGALIZED that sort of thing :)
[09:18] <LaserJock> WAHOOO
[09:18] <LaserJock> edubuntu-menus hit archive.ubuntu.com
[09:18] <LaserJock> |o?
[09:18] <LaserJock> \o/ even
[09:19] <LaserJock> sbalneav: nooooooo
[09:20] <LaserJock> now I can upload new menus
[09:21] <sbalneav> Cool!  Congrats LaserJock!
[09:21] <sbalneav> Your first spec!  Fully implemented and uploaded!
[09:21] <LaserJock> it's bad when you are waiting for your package too get out of NEW so you can upload new versions
[09:21] <LaserJock> sbalneav: and I even rewrote the spec to refelect reality
[09:21] <LaserJock> wahoo
[09:22] <HedgeMage> :D
[09:23] <sbalneav> LaserJock: That's a classic sciences trick isn't it?  Plot the graph, then throw out the data points that don't fit? :)
[09:23] <LaserJock> heh
[09:23] <LaserJock> what we mostly do is this:
[09:24] <sbalneav> At least, that's how I got through first year chemistry :)
[09:24] <LaserJock> take data for a few years
[09:24] <LaserJock> then find the best data run you got
[09:24] <LaserJock> then publish that as "typical data"
[09:24] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:24] <sbalneav> Perfect!
[09:24] <sbalneav> Lies, damned lies, and statistics :)
[09:25] <LaserJock> but seriously, I'm gonna need some testers
[09:25] <sbalneav> I could test tonight, if you'd like.
[09:25] <LaserJock> as I haven't tried this in any real world setting
[09:25] <LaserJock> I just through up so rough menus
[09:26] <LaserJock> I think the basic menu is actually too long
[09:26] <LaserJock> anyway, we've got the edubuntu-* group namespace
[09:26] <LaserJock> so we can have any groups we want
[09:26] <sbalneav> Any methodology you'd like me to follow, or testing-to-destruction?
[09:27] <LaserJock> mostly just trying different combinations and permutations ;-)
[09:27] <LaserJock> on my machine I set up 3 test users
[09:27] <LaserJock> and had 1 that only had edubuntu-basic
[09:27] <LaserJock> 1 that had 2-3 groups
[09:27] <LaserJock> and the last one had 2-3 groups with at least one in common with the other ones
[09:28] <LaserJock> so I think the actual mechanism is probably ok
[09:28] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how realistic my menus are
[09:28] <LaserJock> and as there is no editing yet, I'd like to have pretty good defaults ;-)
[09:28] <sbalneav> brb, workping
[10:21] <pygi> sbalneav is back, quick, everyone hide :)
[10:22] <sbalneav> :)
[10:22] <sbalneav> Wierd
[10:22] <sbalneav> Walked away from my terminal for 1/2 hour, came back, and was sitting at the login prompt.
[10:22] <LaserJock> naughty terminal
[10:45] <mhz> moin all
[10:46] <LaserJock> hi mhz
[10:46] <cbx33> moin mhz
[10:48] <mhz> LaserJock: cbx33 hey you 2
[11:23] <cbx33> pygi, what am I looking at?
[11:23] <cbx33> :p
[11:27] <pygi> cbx33: telepathy client UI
[11:31] <pygi> cbx33: so opinion? :)
[11:35] <mhz> Good news!
[11:35] <cbx33> i like it
[11:35] <mhz> Fluxbuntu team starts working on Fluxbuntu Education Edition tonite
[11:35] <cbx33> what's telepathy?
[11:37] <pygi> cbx33: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/
[11:37] <pygi> mhz: that's nice
[11:37] <mhz> indeed
[11:37] <mhz> current build is 'only' 309 MB
[11:37] <mhz> heheh
[11:37] <mhz> once edu apps get added, ... eeek, no idea
[11:38] <pygi> mhz: will that be in official archive for edgy+1?
[11:39] <mhz> don't know yet
[11:39] <mhz> i hope it gets some support from canonical, thou
[11:41] <pygi> what kind of support do you expect?
[11:43] <mhz> hopefully,
[11:44] <mhz> ship it help for LoCo's in LAm countries
[11:44] <mhz> not 100% but a %
[11:44] <mhz> server too
[11:45] <pygi> well, we won't have shipit for edgy except payed for LUGS
[11:45] <pygi> so...
[11:46] <pygi> dunno about later...
[11:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:48] <LaserJock> shipit is quite expensive
[11:48] <pygi> indeed
[11:55] <mhz> true


[10:55] <Mirv> kalikiana_: you were pinged in bug #1586013 FYI
[10:57] <kalikiana_> Thanks, checking
[11:56] <liuxg> is phone overlay ppa available for 16.10 and 17.04?
[11:56] <liuxg> I want to make use of it to build Qt apps.
[11:56] <liuxg> using ubuntu-app-platform interface.
[12:12] <kalikiana_> liuxg: I believe "you may be the only one using it" could be the most accurate answer to that
[12:12] <kalikiana_> Since building everything on several series takes some effort
[12:14] <liuxg> kalikiana_, the problem is that https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2016/11/16/snapping-qt-apps/
[12:15] <liuxg> kalikiana_, it need to the have qt 5.6.1 to make use of the platform interface.
[12:19] <kalikiana_> liuxg: Right, you need to build against the same Qt. One option would be to use lxd with 16.04.
[12:19] <liuxg> kalikiana_,  got it. thanks


[00:16] <thumper> menn0: ok
[00:22] <menn0> thumper: thanks for the review!
[00:38] <menn0> thumper: another one for you: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/707/
[00:38] <anastasiamac> thumper: thnx for reviewing my doc :-)
[00:39] <thumper> menn0: ack, doing another right now
[00:39] <menn0> thumper: np.
[02:12] <axw> wallyworld_ thumper: responded to http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/699/, PTAL when you can
[02:12] <wallyworld_> sure, looking
[02:56] <mattyw> morning all
[02:57] <mattyw> thumper, morning/ afternoon, you still around?
[03:08] <thumper> axw: done
[03:08] <thumper> mattyw: yep, and reviewed
[03:08] <axw> cheers
[03:09] <axw> trunk is blocked again :~(
[03:09] <mattyw> thumper, cool - is that an LGTM or a vote of confidence?
[03:09] <thumper> :)
[03:09] <thumper> merge it
[03:09] <mattyw> thumper, I don't have permission - but if you do you're welcome to
[03:09] <thumper> ah, ok
[03:10] <thumper> mattyw: done
[03:10] <mattyw> thumper, that's great service
[03:10] <mattyw> thumper, thanks very much
[03:14] <wallyworld_> axw: i think i may be running into an issue with maas 1.7 - the node is green/ready, and i try and bootstrap. i expect it to go blue/allocated and then i can use the virsh console to start manually. however, juju bootstrap exits with  an error FORBIDDEN (You are not allowed to start up this node.)
[03:15] <wallyworld_> maybe maas is complaining there's no power mgmt options set
[03:16] <axw> wallyworld_: I don't think I've used 1.7, only 1.6...
[03:16] <axw> can't say that error sounds familiar
[03:16] <wallyworld_> bollocks
[03:17] <wallyworld_> i have a look at the python used to control the virsh console and it appears deficient in that it neglects to pass the --quite flag, so login is deemed to fail
[03:17] <wallyworld_> so there's clearly some things they need to fix to get start/stop working
[03:19] <thumper> axw: rereviewed the storage branch
[03:19] <axw> thumper: thanks
[03:21] <rick_h_> thumper: got a sec to chat?
[03:21] <thumper> rick_h_: sure
[03:21] <rick_h_> thumper: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/daily-standup?authuser=1
[07:09] <wallyworld> rvba: hi there, did you have a few minutes for a question or 2 about maas?
[08:13] <axw> wallyworld: how are you going with maas?
[08:13] <axw> need a hand with anything?
[08:16] <wallyworld> axw: well, tl;dr; it kinda sucks. there's a gomaasapi commit after the lastest one in dependencies.tsv that fails unit tests in juju. so i have to get that fixed prior to being able to land my gomaas mods to then propose my juju fix. i have also reverse engineered the api somewhat to figure out how to fix the deployment status issue, but need to confirm a couple of things as the doco is lacking. i'm just finishing adding the new api
[08:16] <wallyworld> to the gomaas testserver so i can then use that in juju unit tests
[08:16] <wallyworld> and maas plus kvm in 1.7 is broken
[08:16] <wallyworld> so hard to test live
[08:16] <axw> oy :(
[08:17] <wallyworld> thanks for asking :-)
[08:18] <wallyworld> axw: also, the testserver was somewhat, shall we say, retarded in how it was written wrt handing constraints, so i had to fix that also
[08:35] <dimitern> axw, wallyworld, rogpeppe1, mgz, hey guys do you mind going here https://github.com/orgs/go-amz/people and setting yourself as publicly visible?
[08:36] <dimitern> davecheney, ^^
[08:36] <rogpeppe1> dimitern: done
[08:36] <dimitern> rogpeppe1, cheers!
[08:37] <davecheney> dimitern: done
[08:38] <dimitern> axw, btw you should be unblocked now wrt storage work on goamz - api version upgraded to latest, so if you import gopkg.in/amz.v2 you should be all set
[08:38] <dimitern> davecheney, thanks!
[08:57] <axw> dimitern: I noticed, thank you
[09:14] <jamespage> alexisb, fwereade: just bringing this feature bug to your attention - https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1409639 - hopefully that's not to much of a surprise
[09:14] <mup> Bug #1409639: juju needs to support systemd for >= vivid <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409639>
[09:14] <fwereade> jamespage, ha, yes
[09:21] <voidspace> dimitern: I don't know if you want to have a look at this http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/704/
[09:22] <dimitern> voidspace, sure, I'll have a look in a bit
[09:50] <dimitern> voidspace, reviewed
[09:50] <voidspace> dimitern: thanks
[10:23] <wallyworld> voidspace: hey there
[10:24] <voidspace> wallyworld: hey, hi
[10:25] <wallyworld> voidspace: quick one - the last comment to gomaasapi (rev 59) doesn't work with juju unit tests. i have changes i need  to make to gomaasapi but can't until those issues are fixed. related to nodegroup changes
[10:25] <wallyworld> juju deps still refers to rev 58 so juju is not broken at this stage
[10:26] <voidspace> wallyworld: right, I have a branch that fixes the maas test that is broken
[10:26] <voidspace> wallyworld: I think the code is actually broken
[10:26] <wallyworld> \o/
[10:26] <voidspace> wallyworld: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/704/
[10:26] <wallyworld> oh, great, a pr already
[10:27] <wallyworld> and you have a ship it
[10:27] <wallyworld> that will unblock me tomorrow, so i'm happy
[10:27] <voidspace> cool :-)
[12:33] <voidspace> wallyworld: branch ready to land, but trunk blocked...
[12:34] <wallyworld> voidspace: ah, :-(
[12:34] <voidspace> wallyworld: the fix you need to get tests passing with latest gomaasapi is change line 183 of maas/environ.go to
[12:34] <voidspace> if err != nil || len(bootImages) == 0 {
[12:34] <voidspace> (add a check for empty bootImages)
[12:34] <wallyworld> voidspace: i made that same change locally
[12:34] <voidspace> cool
[12:34] <wallyworld> so it must be right :-)
[12:34] <voidspace> I'll try and land this asap
[12:34] <voidspace> hah
[12:35] <voidspace> I defer to your  wisdom
[12:35] <voidspace> as always
[12:35] <wallyworld> barf
[12:37] <wallyworld> voidspace: i checked critical bug from irc topic, fix for regression was committed over w/e so hopefully it will be verified soon as fix released to unblock
[12:37] <voidspace> wallyworld: great, thanks
[12:38] <mgz> the fix is in, last run over the weekend failed on maas, I triggered a rebuild in case it's happy now
[12:39] <voidspace> hmmm
[12:40] <mgz> wallyworld: I'm not sure about the fix though, only changes the test, so the api still returns stuff in an undefined order? would prefer if the api return was just sorted
[12:43] <anastasiamac> mgz: why would u prefer to see return sorted?
[12:43] <mgz> anastasiamac: because it's an api - I like having stuff we're exposing for other people deterministic, just so they can't also make a mistake in their code and assume that it's in insert-order or whatever
[12:45] <mgz> there are places where that's quite important, and many more where it's really not
[12:48] <anastasiamac> fwereade: wallyworld: ^^ would the order of returned annotations from bulk call matter (on get)?
[12:48] <fwereade> anastasiamac, yes please, preserve the order they were sent in
[12:49] <fwereade> anastasiamac, * the requests were sent in
[12:49] <anastasiamac> mgz: the test was failing not on returned order. it was setting annotations and m checking if the collection that m about to throw over the wire contains elements I was after
[12:50] <anastasiamac> fwereade: mgz: will duble check that m returning collection from get in the same order as the request :)
[12:50] <anastasiamac> mgz: thnx for pick up
[12:53] <fwereade> anastasiamac, doh, I see, I think; so no, I don't think that order matters, users that need to sort results by alpha or something can do so trivially, it's not necessary that we do that sort of work
[12:53] <mgz> anastasiamac: fair enough
[12:55] <perrito666> good morning everyone, sorry for the lateness
[14:27] <dimitern> trunk is unblocked
[14:36] <perrito666> dimitern: how did you fix it_
[14:36] <perrito666> ?
[14:37] <dimitern> perrito666, anastasiamac fixed it
[14:38] <dimitern> perrito666, see https://github.com/juju/juju/commit/66bf4163b9580a1052193bbe8934dc21a4384f11
[14:38] <perrito666> dimitern: ah I saw that on friday
[14:39] <perrito666> I though thi was about abentley mail (or perhas his mail was about this)?
[14:39] <dimitern> perrito666, ah, the uniter one - no, no fix for that yet - it's intermittent
[15:01] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: ping
[15:03] <perrito666> hey wwitzel3 still of for the standup right?
[15:03] <wwitzel3> perrito666: ping
[15:03] <perrito666> wwitzel3: pong
[15:03] <wwitzel3> perrito666: just checking if you're coming for standup?
[15:04] <perrito666> wwitzel3: I thought I got an email from you saying no standup
[15:04] <perrito666> :p
[15:04] <perrito666> brt
[15:31] <dimitern> voidspace, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1382 got merged already btw :)
[15:34] <voidspace> dimitern: yeah, I saw
[15:34] <voidspace> dimitern: thanks :-)
[15:34] <dimitern> voidspace, np
[15:34] <voidspace> dimitern: I only saw *after* I tried to merge again of course...
[15:34] <dimitern> voidspace, I thought so yeah :)
[15:56] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: you back?
[18:00] <jam> wwitzel3: as OCR, can you try to make sure someone is at least investigating Aaron's 2 reported bugs about CI cursing current trunk?
[18:00] <jam> (it doesn't have to be you, I just want to make sure someone is following up on it)
[18:09] <wwitzel3> jam: will do, thanks for the ping
[18:32] <voidspace> g'night all
[18:32] <voidspace> EOD
[19:35] <thumper> morning
[19:37] <perrito666> hi thumper
[19:37] <thumper> hey perrito666
[19:37] <thumper> perrito666: all good in your neck of the woods?
[19:38] <perrito666> thumper: sure, we seem to be doing better than most parts of the world accoding to the official news, albeit a bit more hot :p
[19:39] <thumper> :)
[19:47] <perrito666> abentley: do we know when did this break? #1409827 that is
[19:47] <mup> Bug #1409827: TestSetMembersErrorIsNotFatal fails on ppc <ci> <regression> <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409827>
[19:49] <abentley> perrito666: 66bf4163b9580a1052193bbe8934dc21a4384f11 did not exhibit the issue: http://reports.vapour.ws/releases/2219
[19:49] <perrito666> abentley: tx
[20:33] <perrito666> bbl
[20:33] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: I'm back, looking at the regression
[20:34] <rick_h_> thumper: ping, we're trying to get a backport of frankban's polish into 1.22, we've filed a bug and need a review on a backport PR I'm told? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1388
[20:41] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: k
[20:43] <wwitzel3> thumper: ping, noticed your comment on the regression are you running the PPC test suite?
[20:43] <wwitzel3> thumper: I'm trying to debug that issue now, but not sure how to run the tests.
[20:46] <wwitzel3> ahh nice, I can just use a ppc vm on qemu .. that seems to work
[20:49] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: thnx for the review!!
[20:49] <wwitzel3> anastasiamac: np
[20:49] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: I have a question - PTAL if u get a chance b4 :)
[20:53] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: b4 eod even :)
[20:55] <wwitzel3> anastasiamac: yep, you have a response, let me know if that makes sense
[20:58] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: i do? :) sorry i must be looking in the wrong place - where can I find it?
[20:59] <wwitzel3> anastasiamac: oops, sorry, was still a draft .. my fault
[20:59] <katco> how are unit tags generally marshalled/unmarshalled?
[21:00] <katco> service tags are handled automatically because their member-variables are public; unit has a private member-variable
[21:00] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: yep. thnx :) that's what I thought I understood :P
[21:01] <anastasiamac> wwitzel3: really appreciate ur thoughts and input! thnx
[21:01] <wwitzel3> anastasiamac: you're welcome
[21:05] <thumper> wwitzel3: do you get the same issue just running with the gccgo compiler on the local machine?
[21:05] <thumper> wwitzel3: I'm fairly sure it is a timing problem
[21:06] <thumper> wwitzel3: and I think the test should be rewritten to not need time.Sleep
[21:06] <thumper> cherylj: I'm back if you have time to talk now
[21:07] <wwitzel3> thumper: ok, let me try compiling with gccgo.
[21:07] <wwitzel3> thumper: thanks for the hints
[21:10] <cherylj> thumper, now works for me
[21:11] <thumper> cherylj: we'll just use the standup hangout
[21:11] <cherylj> ok
[21:14] <wwitzel3> thumper: it passes locally for me when using gccgo
[21:15] <thumper> wwitzel3: otp now
[21:32] <menn0> thumper, waigani: environments watcher here: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/711/
[21:41] <waigani> menn0: lgtm
[21:41] <menn0> waigani: cheers
[22:45] <menn0> thumper: when you have a moment can we discuss the machine agent worker stuff?
[22:45] <thumper> menn0: in 10 minutes?
[22:46] <menn0> thumper: sounds good


[00:25] <virtuald> paultag: you're supposed to have a package training session now
[00:26] <virtuald> paultag: according to classbot it started 26 minutes ago :)
[00:39] <paultag> off-by-one virtuald :)
[00:40] <paultag> it's on sunday last I was told
[00:40] <paultag> unless...
[00:40] <paultag> crap, brb, food's burning
[00:44] <virtuald> paultag: twitter and google calendar says it's now :p
[00:44] <penguin42> google is all knowing
[00:44] <virtuald> yeah
[00:45] <virtuald> the closest thing to a god we have
[01:36] <paultag> shoot!
[02:44] <infinity__> hi all
[02:44] <infinity__> can i ask something
[02:45] <xelister> recent ubuntu updates destroyed my bitcoin miner program
[02:45] <xelister> it uses python a bit, and mostly opencl. With amd stream sdk, and closed source drivers.
[02:45] <xelister> Im trying to debug this...
[02:46] <xelister> - how to get packages as I had them 5 days ago? i.e. I know what packages I want to downgrade, now how to find out the version and do it?
[02:47] <xelister> - btw how to know exact gfx driver in use,  and version of fglrx, and of catalyst drivers (radeon)?
[02:49] <infinity__> some icons in the taskbar and the avatars in skype are broken, sometimes they are not (i`m using kubuntu)
[05:42] <vish> nisshh: no need to move 'new' bugs, only the triaged and inprogress , maybe the confirmed ones at times.. milestone the bugs only when you feel they are papercuts
[11:31] <devildante> anyone have text disappearing in natty?
[11:35] <ari-tczew> devildante: which text?
[11:36] <devildante> lemme explain
[11:37] <devildante> when logging in to gnome, the wallpaper + panels appears like usual, but any text on them doesn't
[11:37] <devildante> worse, ANY text from any window or dialog doesn't appear
[11:38] <yofel> (-> #ubuntu+1)
[11:39] <yofel> but I only heard of the panels not coming up at all, not yet that they appear but without text o.O
[11:41] <devildante> yofel: not only the panels, everything that has text on it
[11:41] <devildante> that includes terminal, menus, etc
[11:41] <yofel> no idea, I'm using KDE which works fine in natty
[11:41] <devildante> ah
[13:46] <BUGabundo> o/
[13:47] <AbhiJit> \o/
[15:11] <penguin42> I think bug 678125 should probably be set to wishlist
[15:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 678125 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "No A6 format preset in 'page' dialog (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678125
[15:13] <charlie-tca> I take it that is a different paper size; like letter, legal, A4?
[15:13] <penguin42> yeh
[15:14] <charlie-tca> Never heard of A6 before, myself. I agree with wishlist, though. will set it
[15:14] <penguin42> charlie-tca: It's one of the sequence of ISO paper sizes; they go smaller as you get a larger number; i.e. a6 is smaller than a5 is smaller than a4
[15:14] <penguin42> charlie-tca: http://www.ukofficedirect.co.uk/iso_paper_size_cp.aspx
[15:15] <charlie-tca> Probably needs to go upstream, too
[15:15] <charlie-tca> set it to wishlist
[15:16] <penguin42> I can upstream it
[15:17] <penguin42> I've never actually had a use for A6 that I can think of, A3,A4 and A5 are quite common
[15:19] <penguin42> hehe, I've just found an upstream bug which fixed i t - last week even though it had been open for ~4 years
[15:25]  * penguin42 reads the wikipedia page on paper sizes and learns a whole bunch of probably useless info
[15:29] <charlie-tca> thanks, penguin42.
[15:46] <penguin42> can someone set importance on bug 677955 - I suggest low
[15:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677955 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Grub 1.98 crashes with command 'help b' (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677955
[15:49] <charlie-tca> Why is that even valid? I would think most commands if run by the alphabet will crash on some letters
[15:50] <charlie-tca> Or, does every crash mean it is a bug?
[15:52] <penguin42> help b     should display help on the b commands
[15:53] <penguin42> help should never crash
[15:53] <charlie-tca> yeah? Okay, triaged and low
[15:54] <charlie-tca> My new item learned today! Thanks
[15:54] <penguin42> charlie-tca: A command might tell you that a parameter is invalid or if the parameter is something like an address then it could do something evil, but in general it shouldn't hang the machine
[15:55] <charlie-tca> I agree with that. I did not know that help (letter) would display help for that letters commands. does that work everywhere or just in grub?
[15:56]  * charlie-tca hates the grub command line thingy
[15:56] <penguin42> help is a grub command
[15:56] <penguin42> bash also has it
[15:57] <charlie-tca> heh, Thanks so very much. I tend to even reinstall if it is a fresh install dropping me to the grub command line.
[15:58] <penguin42> I preferred old-grub1 but grub command line can get you out of one hell of a mess
[15:59] <charlie-tca> I suppose it can, I just try really hard not to use it
[16:01] <penguin42> it's got tab complete and stuff so it's not too bad - especially compared to what Grub1 setup was like in the early days
[16:02] <penguin42> (Anyone who understands Chinese might like to take a look at bug 677841 - google translate doesn't do a very good job)
[16:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677841 in empathy (Ubuntu) "無法顯示名子，只顯示帳號 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677841
[16:03] <charlie-tca> Might be a good one to try the "convert to a question so it can be translated" thing
[16:03] <kklimonda> indeed, it's the new, proposed workflow
[16:03] <penguin42> well it's already got a forum discussion associated with it
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Still needs to be translated, though, right?
[16:04] <kklimonda> I still don't think it's worth an effort but meh, I'm not going to translate it myself :)
[16:04] <kklimonda> penguin42: forum discussion is also in Taiwanese
[16:45] <mortal> when will the new pidgin be uploaded?
[17:07] <kklimonda> new?
[17:08] <kklimonda> mortal: to natty, as soon as someone have time to do that. to previous releases never, unless you count in backports (in which case it's the same as natty - as soon as someone asks for it and developers have time to prepare a backport)
[17:14] <xelister> on ubuntu, how to check installed fglrx version?
[17:14] <penguin42> remind me, does ubuntu pull from sid or testing ?
[17:15] <xelister> debian guy thinks ubuntu sucks because dpkg can't even say what fglrx version it is, and debian does. version like 10.09 drivers etc
[17:16] <penguin42> what's the debian guy on? dpkg will show you the version of your package?
[17:17] <xelister> yeah but it shows stupid version, like
[17:18] <xelister> 2:8.780-0ubuntu2
[17:18] <penguin42> and why's that stupid?
[17:18] <xelister> well debian says
[17:18] <xelister> fglrx-driver   1:10-10-1
[17:19] <xelister> which is much more informative, because it refers to ATI's upstream version number (10.10) which is important in debugging etc with AMD/Ati
[17:20] <xelister> and here on Ubuntu if some Ati guys asks "what drivers you use, 10.10 or 10.9" I can't say
[17:20] <penguin42> hmm
[17:22] <xelister> 10.9 = 8.771      10.10 = 8.783
[17:22] <penguin42> and I don't think it's that out of date
[17:22] <penguin42> xelister: It should show the version in /var/log/Xorg.0.log anyway when you try and run it
[17:23] <xelister> ubuntu uses some strange version between officiall 10.9 and 10.10 (other guys say, probobly they are right)  why not just ship 10.10 based driver then (and btw, name it like, 2:8.780-0ubuntu2-catalyst-10-10-based or something)
[17:23] <xelister> Im on maverick
[17:24] <penguin42> I don't know the mechanics of how it gets packages - you could try #ubuntu-x
[17:24] <penguin42> xelister: However you might get further if you don't say it sucks; even if it isn't clear!
[17:26] <xelister> well I was toning down what he said lol
[17:26] <penguin42> hehe
[17:26] <xelister> anyhow, on #bitcoin-dev there are often interesting discussion about GFX hardware, also on linuxes and ubuntu. bbl
[17:50] <micahg> xelister: penguin42, we got a pre-release version of the AMD driver to ship with
[17:50] <penguin42> micahg: Yeh makes sense; so why the weird numbering?
[17:51] <micahg> penguin42: it's a pre-release version
[17:52] <penguin42> micahg: But I think what xelister is pointing is that the numbering doesn't look even similar tot eh ati numbering; the current ati numbering is 10.x
[17:52] <yofel> micahg: that means we only had pre-release versions? I can't remember the package ever having a logical version number
[17:52] <micahg> penguin42: no, that's the catalyst version, not the fglrx version
[17:53] <yofel> xelister: you should probably go to #ubuntu-x and ask Sarvatt. IIRC he makes the packages for the x-updates ppa so he should know where the numbers are from
[17:53] <micahg> yofel: huh?, no just for maverick we got the prerelease so we could ship with KMS for ATI AFAIK
[17:53] <penguin42> micahg: Ah there was only one number visible on the ATI website to casual inspection
[17:54] <yofel> micahg: ah, I didn't know there was a difference between catalyst and fglrx, I always assumed they're the same
[17:54] <yofel> most people that asked about ati ususally didn't make much of a difference there
[17:58] <yofel> then again, why do the debian folks use the catalyst version for the fglrx package then...
[17:59] <yofel> great, viewing the ati homepage crashed ffx4..
[18:00] <yofel> micahg: by the way... about the mozilla crash reporter: Just adding a comment what I was doing and sending the report is fine?
[18:01] <micahg> yofel: yep
[18:01] <micahg> yofel: we're working on getting access to those upstream crash reports as well in case there's an Ubuntu specific issue
[18:08] <xelister> krusader seems to be totall crap
[18:09] <xelister> it crashes. always. for long time.
[18:09] <xelister> will anyone ever fix it
[18:09] <xelister> crashed again, as usuall, when closing some tab
[18:09] <micahg> xelister: have you used the KDE crash reporting tool?
[18:11] <xelister> yeah I will. probably will not help anything.
[18:11] <xelister> also bugs there where reported many many times since always
[18:11] <xelister> same bugs
[18:48] <penguin42> hi can someone look at bug 65821 and tell me if they agree that it is not a dupe of 595321 ?
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 65821 in mutt (Ubuntu) "edgy beta - mutt sasl authentication broken (heat: 2)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65821
[18:48] <penguin42> try that again
[18:48] <penguin42> bug 658521
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 658521 in mountall (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "In Live session or installation HD not recognized (dup-of: 595321)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658521
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 595321 in linux (Ubuntu) "Sata drives not detected by 2.6.35.* kernels (affects: 6) (dups: 1) (heat: 54)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595321
[18:48] <penguin42> that's better
[18:49] <charlie-tca> It is a linux bug. We do not mark any bugs against the kernel as duplicates
[18:49] <charlie-tca> You need to have the kernel team review it for that. #ubuntu-kernel
[18:49] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Indeed - I think what confused it was that 658521 wasn't marked as Linux
[18:50] <penguin42> you can't tell who marked it as a dupe can you?
[18:50] <penguin42> (If it was one of the kernel guys I wouldn't undupe it - otherwise I think I should)
[18:51] <yofel> you can - full activity log (I think that's njin)
[18:51] <yofel> 2010-10-30 12:49:03 	Fabio Marconi 	marked as duplicate 		595321
[18:51] <charlie-tca> njin
[18:51] <charlie-tca> isn't it?
[18:51] <yofel> it is
[18:52] <penguin42> ok, I'll flip it to Linux and undupe it
[18:54] <micahg> :(
[18:58] <charlie-tca> Thanks again, penguin42. That was a good find
[18:58] <penguin42> someone on +1 seems to have the same controller
[23:15] <maco> lifeless: why shouldnt it be a bug on launchpad that launchpad is giving an incorrect command to users?
[23:15] <lifeless> maco: launchpad doesn't give that command
[23:16] <lifeless> maco: its just data configured by the ubuntu bug squad
[23:16] <lifeless> maco: also, its an ubuntu bug if they changed things incompatibly with their own messages
[23:17] <maco> well then the package would be apport
[23:17] <lifeless> perhaps
[23:17] <maco> but how does the message on lp get changed?
[23:18] <lifeless> just edit it
[23:20] <lifeless> I may be wrong, but I really wouldn't expect this to be code rather than data.
[23:21] <maco> edit it where?
[23:22] <JanC> I guess an ubuntu project owner has to set it or something like that?
[23:23] <micahg> what's the issue?
[23:24] <maco> the "please use ubuntu-bug" message on lp gives a deprecated syntax for how to use it
[23:24] <micahg> maco: where?
[23:24] <lifeless> this one
[23:24] <lifeless> xterm (Ubuntu) bug reporting guidelines:
[23:24] <lifeless> Please report bugs against xterm with this command:
[23:24] <lifeless>   $ ubuntu-bug -p xterm
[23:24] <lifeless> For more tips on effective bug reporting against Ubuntu Xorg packages, please see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting and thanks ahead of time!
[23:24] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xterm/+filebug
[23:25] <micahg> yeah, we can edit that
[23:26] <lifeless> maco: in summary: data in launchpad isn't a bug of launchpad itself.
[23:27] <maco> is there a better place to report such bugs than the blackhole of no-package-set?
[23:28] <lifeless> I don't know
[23:29] <lifeless> Is there a meta place for bugs about ubuntu itself: governance issues, TB issues etc.
[23:32] <lifeless> speaking of bug stuff
[23:33] <lifeless> anyone got an answer for the last question in bug 677558
[23:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677558 in launchpad "launchpad chooses package fglrx-installer when reporting a bug for package fglrx (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677558
[23:38] <charlie-tca> lifeless: yes, there is a way.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> I don't how practical it is or how to implement it though.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> I can use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search  to search for any package, binary or source.
[23:39] <charlie-tca> If it is a binary package, it will give me the source it is in
[23:41] <charlie-tca> Since launchpad bugs are always filed against source packages, searching for fglrx shows me fglrx-installer as the package affected
[23:48] <lifeless> charlie-tca: yeah, but how can we communicate better with users that don't know this structure
[23:49] <charlie-tca> Education?
[23:49] <charlie-tca> We need to educate the users either through classes or documentation.
[23:51] <charlie-tca> perhaps we need to review the procedures we (bug triagers) use. Why do we insist on telling the reporter "you made a mistake. The package should have been..." instead of just changing it to the correct package
[23:52] <charlie-tca> The reporter should be able to tell us "this is a bug I found." Part of triaging is to insure the package is correct. The reporter did not make a mistake.


[00:05] <joshualyle> turns out I was looking in the wrong place. the setup.py install script uses system_info() as well to determine the OS variant and then just sets that in the cloud.cfg file at the time of setup.py install. If it is removed in cloud.cfg, it will fallback to ubuntu
[17:38] <Goneri> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/62 is ready for review


[02:27] <toxygen> hi
[02:27] <toxygen> on page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ you are referring to image which is missing
[02:27] <toxygen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/htdocs/ubuntu/img/attach.png
[02:27] <toxygen> third picture from the left in the middle of page (between globe and book)