[01:15] <jayis> work
[02:33] <greg-g> _stink_: a team offsite
[02:33] <greg-g> so yeah, work-fun
[03:25] <cmaloney> woo woo
[03:25]  * cmaloney is uploading a mixtape
[03:38] <cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/10/16/mixtape-001/
[12:49] <_stink_> work-fun!
[12:49] <rick_h_> wheeee
[16:46] <cmaloney> Great, Hewlett Packard Enterprise just let a bunch of people go
[16:46] <jrwren> does HPE still have the GM service contract?
[16:46] <cmaloney> not sure
[16:47] <cmaloney> https://twitter.com/pleia2/status/788055096437288960
[16:49] <jrwren> oh, their openstack staff.
[16:53] <cmaloney> Yeah
[16:54] <cmaloney> Though I think they laid off some folks from HPE locally as well (not sure when though)
[16:56] <jrwren> i was thinking there would be a lot of local HPE people from the EDS aquisition in 2008
[16:57] <jrwren> but, apparently when GM ditched HPE 4 hrs ago, they took 2500 people from HPE to GM
[16:57] <jrwren> so.. not sure what kind of presence HPE has in SEMI
[20:12] <ColonelPanic001> gg
[20:13] <cmaloney> kk
[20:14] <_stink_> :q!
[20:15] <greg-g> :( pleia
[20:18] <cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah


[12:35] <Kamion> do we have any idea what's wrong with gnomemeeting? (uninstallable)
[12:35] <Mithrandir> not on i386?
[12:35] <Kamion> powerpc/amd64
[12:36] <Mithrandir> was updated today, at least
[12:37] <RubenV> heh, this is weird
[12:37] <RubenV> the logout link in my panel is gonee
[12:39] <RubenV> http://files.lambda1.be/screenshots/panel-logout-gone.png
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, yo.
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, there are some items listed as "bounty available" with your name next to them.
[12:41] <jdub> morning
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, are you the person that coordinates that?
[12:41] <jdub> yeah
[12:41] <jdub> hola!
[12:42] <jordim> hola!
[12:42] <srbaker> jdub, how do you arrange that?
[12:42] <srbaker> jdub, would i be competing with others to finish it first, and thereby duplicating effort?
[12:42] <jdub> no
[12:43] <jdub> they're not really bounties like that
[12:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, figured out in conjunction with elmo, I'll fix it
[12:43] <jdub> if you're keen to do one, mail me, we can sort it out and stuff
[12:44] <srbaker> jdub, i am keen to do a couple
[12:45] <srbaker> jdub, the gnome bt gui is the main oen
[12:45] <srbaker> jdub, what's Ubuntu Pocketbook ?
[12:46] <jdub> it's a starter's guide to ubuntu
[12:46] <jdub> the doc team are working on it
[12:51] <srbaker> ahh
[12:53] <jon1012> hello :)
[12:54] <jon1012> (do you know when the mono packages will be fixed ?)
[12:54] <jon1012> (on hoary)
[12:54] <jon1012> (because one part is in .2 and another in .4, which blocks any upgrade or change in the mono packages on my system :/)
[12:58] <usual> what is the formal way to request software to be packaged?
[01:07] <lamont_r> usual: is it something in debian?
[01:07] <usual> lamont, not offically, no
[01:08] <lamont_r> what package?
[01:08] <lamont_r> the simplest way is to get it into debian, and then it just shows up in universe...
[01:08] <usual> I was on planet.gnome.org and saw a link to a systray plugin for xchat, it looks great. I found a deb and tried it, everything works fine except no icon in the tray
[01:09] <lamont_r> but otherwise, it's a discussion on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, possibly predated by discussion here.
[01:09] <usual> gotcha
[01:09] <lamont_r> gnome crack tends to get tracked pretty solidly, given the team...
[01:09] <usual> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=88437
[01:10] <usual> if your interested
[01:10] <lamont_r> I'll pass that along
[01:10] <usual> ty
[01:11] <usual> It is very nice to minimise to systray and be notified of nick highlights etc
[01:26] <lamont_r> usual: actually, could you toss me an email, so it doesn't fall through the cracks?
[01:26] <usual> lamont_r, sure, what is the address
[01:26] <lamont_r><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:27] <usual> ok, I will include the url's as well
[01:27] <lamont_r> (then I can just forward your mail to the right folks, and be even lazier...)
[01:27] <lamont_r> thanks
[01:27] <usual> hehe
[01:27] <usual> Thank you
[01:30] <usual> lamont_r, sent you the info
[01:30] <lamont_r> thanks
[01:30] <usual> np :)
[01:34] <usual> lamont_r, here is the blurb I saw it on on planet gnome
[01:34] <usual> http://pubcrawler.org/archives/000567.html
[02:30] <wasabi> So... what's up with Mono? Is it going to be in Hoary, all maintained and ready to go?
[02:51] <jdodson> knock, knock.
[02:55] <mjg59> Hello
[02:56] <jdodson> any developers in the house?
[02:57] <mjg59> Most of them are in Spain at the moment, and it's 3AM there
[02:57] <mjg59> So probably not :)
[02:57] <jdodson> right, cant wait for them to get back....
[02:57] <jdodson> :)
[02:58] <mjg59> What's up?
[02:59] <jdodson> i mean i can, sorry type.
[02:59] <jdodson> type=typo.
[02:59] <jdodson> that line should have read "right, i can wait for them to get back."
[02:59] <Clint> mjg59: you don't qualify as question-worthy
[03:00] <jdodson> i have a solaris keyboard at work and come home to a non-solaris board, takes a few mins to get used to.
[03:00] <jdodson> clint: i need to talk to a developer about mentoring me for becoming a package maintainer, kinda makes sense to talk to a developer.
[03:00] <jdodson> clint: no offense to any non-developers.
[03:03] <wasabi> argh.
[03:03] <wasabi> trashapplet is crashing left and right
[03:03] <mjg59> Clint: Damnit
[03:05] <Clint> mjg59: your debian streetcred is meaningless here
[03:11] <mjg59> How about my ACPI streetcred?
[03:12] <kylem> meaningless as well!
[03:12] <kylem> <- no streetcred at all. ;-)
[03:13] <mjg59> Laptop users give me mad phat streetcred
[03:13] <chrisa> What? It's not cool just to kick them anymore?  Muiaha
[03:15] <jdodson> chrisa: funny.
[03:15] <jvw> Clint: I *knew* it :)
[03:16] <Clint> no one around to force any channel code of conduct right now
[03:16] <kylem> ubuntu needs hot-babe.
[03:16] <Clint> it's already got mplayer and amd64, why not?
[03:16] <jvw> How flamy are ubuntu-lists?
[03:16] <Mithrandir> jvw: not.
[03:17] <Clint> except the people that get gated in via the "forums"
[03:17] <jvw> so, no risk of ubuntu ever threatening Debian then
[03:17] <chrisa> Adding a forum portal sounds like a good way to ruin the lists
[03:18] <jvw> if ubuntu has mplayer, why doesn't Debian have it?
[03:20] <wasabi> ubuntu doesn't.
[03:21] <jvw> ah, Clint spreading disinformation here then :)
[03:22] <jvw> http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/m/mplayer/
[03:22] <jvw> what is multiverse?
[03:23] <wasabi> mplayer is in multiverse?
[03:23] <wasabi> maybe it's just in the pool
[03:23] <jvw> (I found http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-10-20.1228090247 by the way)
[03:24] <usual> Setting up mplayer-586 (1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu3) ...
[03:24] <jvw> multiverse sounds like debian's non-free
[03:24] <wasabi> wasabi@kyoto:~ $ apt-cache policy mplayer
[03:24] <wasabi> Candidate: (none)
[03:24] <jvw> if ubuntu sees no _legal_ issues with distributing mplayer, I don't see why debian would
[03:25] <wasabi> Why am I not seeing it.
[03:25] <jvw> DFSGfreeness is something different of course
[03:25] <wasabi> Ahh there
[03:25] <wasabi> fake packages
[03:25] <wasabi> EVIL
[03:25] <jvw> you mean virtual :)?
[03:31] <mjg59> Debian's issue with mplayer is primarily that the maintainer hasn't produced packages with the licensing issues sufficiently explained
[03:32] <mjg59> multiverse is non-free stuff, yeah
[03:32] <jvw> hm... I didn't know that _that_ was debian's issue
[03:33] <jvw> Since there are packages in NEW, I assumed there was some more fundamental issue
[03:33] <jvw> So if anyone would package a mplayer with a sufficiently well explanation of the status, it'd be acceptable for non-free...?
[03:34] <mjg59> jvw: If someone could package mplayer with a sufficient explanation of its status, it could go into main
[03:34] <mjg59> It's blocking on license checking
[03:35] <jvw> I guess this status is completely unknown to anyone not brave enough to read -legal... as I was unable to find it when searching for it previously
[03:36] <mjg59> That bit hasn't been discussed on legal, as far as I know
[03:36] <mjg59> This is just from discussion with some of the poeple involved
[03:36] <jvw> do you plan to do something about that?
[03:36] <jvw> (Hm, maybe we should move to some debian channel)
[03:36] <mjg59> What happens to a package in NEW is generally between the maintainer and the ftp-masters
[03:37] <mjg59> It's up to the maintainer to deal with it
[03:37] <kylem> the second it made it into Debian, i'd have to ram about a thousand bugs at it, for being an absolutely shittily written piece of software...
[03:39] <mjg59> kylem: Well, yeah, it stands little chance of making it into stable for a long time
[03:39] <mjg59> Horrid, horrid program
[03:40] <usual> mplayer?
[03:40] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:40] <usual> mjg59, is there another option for a browser plugin?
[03:40] <usual> vlc?
[03:40] <mjg59> usual: Yurgh. There /is/ one for xine somewhere, but it sucks.
[03:41] <usual> rgr
[03:41] <mjg59> Mind you, most of my experience of mozplayer has also sucked.
[03:41] <usual> likewise
[03:41] <usual> I replaced totem-gstreamer with xine
[03:42] <usual> I wonder why it's the default (gstreamer)
[03:43] <farruinn> is there a meta package I can apt-get that gives a basic development environment
[03:43] <mjg59> gstreamer is the way things will be in the future
[03:43] <mjg59> It's just a bit fragile at the moment...
[03:43] <farruinn> like, I need gcc obviously, but what else is "standard"?
[03:44] <usual> I see, so it's being forced out widespread
[03:44] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:44] <mjg59> The Hoary gstreamer should be much, much better
[03:44] <usual> k
[03:45] <usual> i'm using hoary, i'll track the progress
[03:49] <usual> mjg59, any plans to add beagle/inotify to hoary?
[03:50] <mjg59> usual: inotify is in the 2.6.9 kernel in hoary
[03:50] <usual> ahhh
[03:50] <mjg59> Beagle ought to turn up when it becomes a little less of a moving target (and when mono actually gets in)
[03:50] <usual> did not know
[03:50] <mjg59> usual: This is only as of a few days ago, so :)
[03:51] <mjg59> Hoary also has suspend to disk support
[03:52] <usual> i wasn't aware mono wasn't in
[03:52] <mjg59> There's some 1.0.2 packages in universe, but 1.0.4 doesn't currently build
[03:52] <mjg59> It's being worke don
[03:54] <usual> mjg59, the liveCD is actually morphix correct? I was curious if the bootsplash and grub splash were going into hoary
[03:55] <mjg59> The hoary livecd should be based on Hoary, rather than Morphix (in principle). Hoary /should/ have nice bootsplash, but it won't be based on the kernel patches.
[03:55] <usual> k
[03:55] <usual> thanks for the info
[03:56] <mjg59> The idea is to have something that just runs from userspace. It ought to be pretty neat anyway.
[03:56] <mjg59> On the other hand, it's currently looking like hoary ought to boot in a bit over 20 seconds or so in a decent system, so it might not be worth bothering :)
[03:56] <usual> it's a 6 month cycle right?
[03:57] <mjg59> Yup
[03:57] <mjg59> Hoary preview should be out in March
[03:57] <usual> just in time for my birthday
[03:57] <mjg59> Heh
[03:59] <usual> mjg59, ubuntu is a good server solution?
[04:00] <mjg59> It's not really any worse than Debian
[04:01] <mjg59> I'd have no qualms with using it
[04:01] <usual> ok, I've had a few people that I gave cd's to ask me, they swore it was just for a desktop/workstation
[04:01] <mjg59> The default install is suitable for a desktop
[04:01] <mjg59> If you boot with the custom option, the installer will let you choose a different set of packages
[04:01] <usual> gotcha
[04:02] <mjg59> Being a good desktop doesn't stop it from being a good server
[04:02] <usual> Thats what I tried to tell them heh
[04:03] <usual> I've enjoyed hoary so far, very few issues for being unstable
[04:03] <usual> debian unstable was somewhat similar, but more issues than ubuntu has given me
[04:22] <usual> mjg59, any idea what I need installed to play dvd's with totem-gstreamer? I just did an apt-get install gstreamer0.8*
[04:22] <usual> none of that helped
[04:56] <usual> ahhh
[04:56] <usual> people in #gstreamer tell me the gstreamer in hoary isn't new enough to play dvd's
[08:41] <daniels> mjg59: http://www.livejournal.com/~mjg59/33116.html
[08:46] <ironwolf> daniels: ROTFL.
[09:31] <sid77> pinhead, gabba gabba hey?
[09:31] <haggai> 2 evo crashes in as many minutes :(
[09:33] <haggai> 4rd crash
[09:33] <haggai> 3
[09:34] <haggai> 4th
[09:34] <haggai> now it won't even start
[09:41] <Tsjoklate> I have a question/request... in warty I was able to d/l the suede-icons, but now in hoary the package has been (temp?) removed... kan anyone shed some light on this?
[09:43] <Kamion> suede-icons was only in warty universe, judging from my mirror
[09:43] <Tsjoklate> someone will read this :)
[09:43] <Kamion> can't say I know where it's gone though
[09:43] <Treenaks> Kamion: yeah, why isn't it in hoary-universe then :)
[09:43] <thom>  madison suede-icons
[09:43] <thom> suede-icons | 0.2.5-0ubuntu1 | warty/universe | source, all
[09:43] <Kamion> presumably 'cos it was removed from Debian
[09:43] <Tsjoklate> I know Kamion.. I was just hoping it would return in hoary
[09:43] <Kamion> ah, in fact it was Ubuntu-specific
[09:43] <Kamion> so it would have been removed because we no longer use it I suppose
[09:44] <Tsjoklate> thought it was an ubu deal
[09:44] <thom> i don't think it was ever packaged for debian; it was nathaniel's temporary icons
[09:44] <Kamion> looks like it, yes
[09:44] <thom> if you want to update the package and rebuild it for hoary i'm sure someone will sponsor the package
[09:45] <thom> Tsjoklate: ^
[09:45] <Tsjoklate> me thom?
[09:45] <Treenaks> Tsjoklate: yes you can do it :)
[09:45] <Tsjoklate> I would do it.. but what do I have to do?
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> you are making me nervous here Treenaks :)
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> I've never done such a thing
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> but I am willing to learn
[09:46] <Treenaks> Tsjoklate: I can show you -- I used to be a DD :)
[09:52] <Tsjoklate> problem solved thanks folks
[09:58] <seb128> pitti, hello
[09:58] <pitti> Hi seb128!   GOOD TIMES.
[10:24] <Simira> so, what's up today?
[10:24] <daniels> aside from the ceiling?
[10:25] <thom> I want SICKIX branding
[10:25] <daniels> sssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
[10:26] <daniels> evolution is so broken
[10:26] <Kinnison> heh
[10:47] <Kamion> mvo: is there any reason why it's APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated rather than Allow-Unauthenticated to match most of the other apt configuration variables?
[10:52] <thom> CRAAAAACK
[10:54] <mvo> Kamion: I don't think so
[10:56] <Treenaks> "This is your brain on Perl" :)
[10:56] <Kinnison> "and *this* is your brain on Python" :-P
[10:58] <Keybuk> "This is your brain on Small Talk"
[10:59] <Treenaks> Keybuk: what's that dripping out of your ears? ;)
[11:08] <seb128> daniels, any idea on why http://clipart.freedesktop.org/downloads/openclipart-0.08.tgz doesn't work ? (it used to work and I've a bug report based on it )
[11:08] <seb128> bah, somebody has problably removed the file, I'll try with the 0.07 which seems to work
[11:11] <oscarh> hi! i was referred here from #ubuntu, i have a question about the alps touchpad kernel driver and if it could be included in ubuntu.
[11:12] <Kinnison> is the alps pad driver not integrated into the synaptics driver these days?
[11:12] <oscarh> Kinnison, don't think so
[11:12] <oscarh> i've got a "working" touchpad
[11:13] <oscarh> but i can't use the xorg syaptics driver
[11:13] <oscarh> well, i haven't tried the last few weeks though
[11:14] <Kinnison> Hmm
[11:14] <Treenaks> maybe it's a non-synaptics touchpad?
[11:14] <Treenaks> oh wait
[11:14] <oscarh> nope, it's an alps touchpad
[11:15] <oscarh> if i patch my kernel and rebuild it works
[11:15] <oscarh> has diferent resolution than a synaptics but works as a synaptics in every other way i think
[11:16] <Treenaks> hm, I have an ancient alps touchpad
[11:16] <Treenaks> hmm
[11:18] <oscarh> Treenaks, i hope mine isn't ancient
[11:18] <oscarh> :)
[11:18] <Treenaks> oscarh: well, I hope mine is supported as well :)
[11:18] <oscarh> otherwise ubuntu works really good, so it's a bit anoying having to patch the kernel for just that.
[11:20] <oscarh> but how does it work with kernel patches an prekompiled kernels?
[11:20] <oscarh> is it even able to install a patch as an "extra" packade or do you have to use an whole other kernel?
[11:21] <thom> we rejected the alps patch, can't remember why
[11:21] <oscarh> thom, not that common with alps touchpads?
[11:22] <thom> the problem with the alps patch is that you cannot reliably detect the difference between an alps and a standard synaptics touchpad, so you pick up an alps and try to use extended functions and it all goes wrong; the number of alps touchpads was small enough to make dropping that the best option
[11:23] <Treenaks> so splitting/loading alps manually would actually be the best option?
[11:24] <thom> probably, yeah, but the problem is that it's so inanely tied to the psmouse code it wasn't really worth it from a time point of view, but patches gratefully accepted ...
[11:24] <oscarh> thom,  could the patch still be compiled and included as an extra package?
[11:24] <thom> the problem is in the kernel's psmouse driver, not with xorg-driver-synaptics; so you'd need a kernel parameter that the psmouse module took
[11:26] <oscarh> thom, sorry, lost me there, but i'm well aware that the xorg driver is still the same, and that the patch affects the kernel mouse drivers
[11:27] <thom> right.  so the kernel's standard mouse driver works out which type of ps/2 mouse it is, and alps is one of those types.  you can't reliably tell alps apart in the driver, though, so the kernel driver needs an option to specify the type, and that was too much work.
[11:28] <oscarh> ok, and it still is i guess.
[11:29] <daniels> seb128: i don't know, the cliparts project have gone kind of wacky
[11:29] <daniels> (right, my wireless card is out of ADD mode)
[11:29] <oscarh> i have a secon question though, maybe it sould be addressed xorg though, but dri drivers for savage video cards?
[11:30] <daniels> mmm, savage dri is still highly experimental
[11:30] <daniels> i'm loathe to put it in
[11:30] <Treenaks> daniels: it's hoary! :)
[11:30] <daniels> (it's a patch i really, really dislike)
[11:31] <daniels> Treenaks: highly experimental as in less reliable than the current savage driver
[11:31] <oscarh> daniels, patch?
[11:31] <daniels> which occasionally manages to actually display something
[11:31] <daniels> oscarh: yeah, there's a patch available
[11:31] <daniels> it's large and invasive, and whichever user uses it can write arbitrary things to any point in memory
[11:31] <daniels> which is even worse than normal dri
[11:31] <oscarh> daniels, isn't the savage dri work goin on in the xorg tree?
[11:31] <daniels> not afaik
[11:31] <oscarh> hmm, strange
[11:38] <Kamion> fabbione: hm, actually maybe I'm on crack about #3685 being a kernel bug, feel free to ignore me and reassign to hotplug if you think that's the case ;)
[11:47] <HcE> a very basic package question. should the postinst script be in debian/postinst ?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> HcE: yes.
[11:48] <HcE> =)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> or debian/$package.postinst
[11:48] <HcE> ok, what is most correct(tm)?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> the former if you only build a single package, the latter if you build more than one.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> (binary package, from the source package)
[11:49] <HcE> ok
[11:53] <HcE> ooh
[11:54] <fabbione> Kamion: well... if the device isn't created... ;) but i don't think it's a kernel problem
[11:54] <fabbione> Kamion: welcome to take it back and slip some sleeps here and there to wait for /dev/fb to wake up
[11:55] <fabbione> Kamion: otherwise wait a few hours to have kernel crack of the day and test with it :P
[11:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: see? you're getting addicted to the kernel :)
[11:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: slowly but surely...
[11:58] <daniels> sssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
[11:58] <daniels> my panel is SO BROKEN
[11:58] <seb128> wwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttt
[11:58] <seb128> that's probably xorg's fault
[11:58] <daniels> clearly a gtk bug
[11:59] <daniels> i just have two solid bars of the panel's background colour at the top and bottom of my screen
[11:59] <seb128> due to the xlibs ? :p
[11:59] <daniels> killall gnome-panel, doesn't help
[11:59] <Kamion> fabbione: /proc/fb didn't get populated either last I checked, and I'm *already* sleeping for up to 10 seconds to wait for /dev/fb!
[11:59] <daniels> i blame dbus
[11:59] <seb128> daniels, killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet
[11:59] <daniels> awesome
[11:59] <HcE> Mithrandir: how come dpkg installs my postinst to / instead of running it?
[11:59] <Kamion>                                 for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
[11:59] <Kamion>                                         [ -e /dev/fb/0 ]  && break
[11:59] <Kamion>                                         sleep 1
[11:59] <Kamion>                                 done
[11:59] <seb128> which fucks all the GNOME stuff
[11:59] <azeem> daniels: 'slay' might help as well ;)
[11:59] <Kamion> (which sucks, but hey)
[11:59] <daniels> seb128: that didn't help, I still have the broken panel, and now I have a new nautilus window also ;)
[12:00] <sjoerd> dbus restart, it shouldn't care about hal restart
[12:00] <Treenaks> sjoerd: you can't restart hal without restarting dbus using the init scripts, can you?
[12:00] <seb128> daniels, are you using the drive mount applet ? In which case you need to kill it to
[12:00] <seb128> too
[12:00] <sjoerd> Treenaks: you can restart hal without restarting dbus
[12:00] <azeem> Treenaks: you can do it manually
[12:00] <Treenaks> azeem: I want an init script!
[12:00] <seb128> sjoerd, dbus restart restarts hal too :p
[12:00] <daniels> gnome-volume-manager?  restarting that isn't helping
[12:00] <seb128> no
[12:01] <seb128> /usr/lib/gnome-applets/drivemount_applet2
[12:01] <azeem> daniels: just reboot
[12:01] <daniels> azeem: don't want to lose browser + vi sessions + build
[12:01] <daniels> the latter being the thing that takes hours
[12:01] <seb128> daniels, killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet drivemount_applet2
[12:02] <daniels> seb128: yeah, did that, didn't helpj
[12:02] <seb128> hum
[12:02] <seb128> no idea so :/
[12:02] <seb128> I blame pitti
[12:02] <seb128> utopia stuff fault
[12:03] <daniels> ah, wnck-applet seemed to be rather recalcitrant
[12:05] <seb128> utch
[12:06] <Treenaks> ooh, it's WW2 all over again.. the German guy beating up the French guy ;)
[12:06] <daniels> seb128: killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet drivemount_applet2 gweather-app
[12:06] <daniels> let-2 wnck-applet
[12:07] <sladen> daniels: swap  ESC  and  Tilde
[12:15] <seb128> daniels, that works ?
[12:15] <daniels> seb128: yeah
[12:15] <daniels> sladen: hmm?
[12:22] <Treenaks> thom: in a .deb?
[12:22] <thom> Treenaks: i have all the dependencies be-debbed
[12:22] <thom> beagle will happen this evening
[12:23] <daniels> thom: dbus-mono still isn't built
[12:24] <thom> no
[12:24] <thom> because m-a-b hasn't built, either
[12:25] <daniels> get to it!
[12:25] <Treenaks> chop chop!
[12:25] <HcE> Mithrandir: I got it right, now just fidling with enourms amount of errors from lintian
[12:25] <HcE> (=
[12:27] <Mithrandir> HcE: lintian -i is good
[12:28] <HcE> ah
[12:28] <HcE> does dpkg --build ignore CVS directories?
[12:29] <Kamion> you should not be using dpkg --build by hand
[12:29] <fabbione> damn i rock!
[12:29] <Mithrandir> HcE: use debhelper.
[12:29] <fabbione> linux-source-bleeding-edge is FTBFS on 4/5 arches
[12:29] <Kamion> use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild to build packages
[12:29] <Treenaks> fabbione: nice one :)
[12:29] <fabbione> actually 3/5
[12:29] <Kamion> your howto is clueless if it recommends that; drop it immediately and find something else
[12:30] <fabbione> Treenaks: with error that i have never seen before.. it seems like watching Star Trek: "Where no man has gone before..."
[12:30] <Treenaks> fabbione: that's kind of cool, in a way
[12:31] <fabbione> eehehe
[12:32] <fabbione> daniels: is there any reason why xserver-xorg-dbg now conflicts with xserver-xorg ????
[12:33] <daniels> ... it doesn't
[12:33] <HcE> Mithrandir: link to a good debuild guide?
[12:33] <fabbione> xserver-xorg conflicts with xserver-xfree86
[12:33] <fabbione> xserver-xorg-dbg provides xserver-xfree86
[12:33] <fabbione> hmmmmm
[12:33] <daniels> oh, yeah
[12:33] <daniels> right
[12:33] <Mithrandir> HcE: debian new maintainer's guide is ok-ish
[12:33] <fabbione> daniels: did you change anything over there?
[12:33] <daniels> yeah, I just caught the same thing myself
[12:33] <daniels> nope
[12:33] <daniels> it provides both -xfree86 and -xorg
[12:34] <fabbione> yeah
[12:34] <daniels> fixed locally
[12:34] <fabbione> no rush
[12:34] <fabbione> it's nothing really that bad
[12:34] <daniels> yeah
[12:35] <fabbione> and actually i think it is more sane to have them in conflict...
[12:35] <fabbione> because you don't end up in the trap of "to what is symlinked /etx/X11/X?"
[12:35] <daniels> heh
[12:35] <daniels> but it's kind of harsh to say 'YOU ARE A SLAVE TO DEBUGGING HAR HAR HAR'
[12:36] <daniels> but when we use the elf loader, that becomes irrelevant anyway
[12:36] <daniels> because it isn't stupid enough to say 'debug your server?  not any more!'
[12:36] <daniels> er, dl loader
[12:36] <daniels> the elf loader is the one that I hate
[12:36] <fabbione> ahha
[12:44] <thom> pitti: wish you had asked before you did 4065 - it was not done for a reason
[12:44] <thom> oh well
[12:45] <pitti> thom: oh?
[12:45] <pitti> thom: sorry for that
[12:45] <pitti> thom: shall I upload the old version again?
[12:45] <elmo> thom: might have been a plan to say that in the bug? :-p
[12:45] <thom> no, no, and no
[12:46] <thom> (ie, it's fine, we'll just find other stuff)
[12:46] <pitti> thom: sorry again, I just went through the to-be-merged list, and since I did the initial modifications, I just merged it
[12:46] <pitti> thom: what breaks now?
[12:47] <thom> pitti: nothing breaks
[12:47] <daniels> it's not a breakage thing, the fix is likely fine
[12:47] <thom> pitti: just... useful for educational purposed
[12:47] <lamont_r> and elilo-installer
[12:48] <fabbione> we are not going to introduce gcc4 are we?
[12:48] <fabbione> not for hoary at least...
[12:48] <elmo> fabbione: no
[12:48] <fabbione> good
[12:48] <fabbione> because it can't compile the kernel yet
[12:49] <fabbione> or better.. it miscompiles it
[12:49] <bob2> hm, my laptop is going in suspend loops again
[12:49] <thom> pffft, minor issue
[12:54] <fabbione> thom: my mom is a minor issue... thousands users knocking on my door no
[01:20] <fabbione> NUMA emulation support (NUMA_EMU) [N/y/?]  (NEW)
[01:20] <fabbione> DOH!
[01:36] <haggai> ooh cool
[01:36] <fabbione> that's only for amd64 atm
[01:36] <daniels> elmo: please sync nvidia-kernel-common
[01:36] <haggai> if I click lock screen while kopete is logged in, it marks me as away.  Does that happen with gaim too?
[01:37] <thom> gossip used to do it
[01:38] <fabbione>   CC      net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_CLUSTERIP.mod.o
[01:40] <elmo> daniels: done
[01:40] <daniels> elmo: kthx
[02:15] <Kamion> hmm, the death in a bag was not too deathlike today
[02:16] <thom> Kamion: mutant tomato was pretty horrible
[02:16] <Treenaks> ooh mutant tomato!
[02:18] <Kamion> the sandwich you mean?
[02:18] <thom> Kamion: in the baguette
[02:19] <Kamion> mine was mostly just ham
[02:19] <thom> there was mulched mutant tomato underneath the ham
[02:21] <Kamion> I obviously totally ignored that
[02:27] <haggai> I wondered what that stuff was
[03:03] <seb128> jdub_, #3071 WONTFIX ?
[03:26] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: cool photos :)
[03:37] <Kamion> daniels: mind if I add udeb generation to l-r-m?
[03:59] <fabbione> mdz: g1mm3 tah crack
[03:59] <mdz> fabbione: APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated=1
[03:59] <fabbione> in which files?
[03:59] <mdz> echo 'APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "1";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf
[04:01] <fabbione> thanks
[04:01] <Kamion> hm, I used =true, I guess both work
[04:01] <fabbione> 1 is more 1337
[04:04] <pitti> doko: ping
[04:04] <pitti> doko: your BoF is starting
[04:11] <bob2> seb128: the frequency and battery monitors lost my preferences when going fro mwarty to hoary, is that normal?
[04:12] <seb128> not normal but there is already a bug open about it
[04:14] <jdub> thom: libgecko-cil only works with mozilla-browser -> suck
[04:17] <sid77> is the "creating audio cds" thread still open here? because I've found an intresting program (http://www.dropline.net/optimystic/)
[04:17] <ross> there is someone else making a HIGified python audio burner too
[04:20] <sid77> well, I'll post it in ml... do you mind if I open another thread? I cannot access the old thread from webmail
[04:25] <fabbione> debian-installer-images_20041118ubuntu9_sparc   2%  248KB  96.6KB/s   01:47 ETA
[04:26] <thom> jdub: yes
[04:26] <thom> much suck
[04:32] <Treenaks> woooo
[04:32] <robtaylor> carlos: ping?
[04:32] <carlos> robtaylor: pong
[04:33] <carlos> robtaylor: hi dude, sorry, I hadn't time to look at your work :-(
[04:33] <robtaylor> carlos: ok, i debugged and checked in a  demoable accessd with a csv backend last night :)
[04:33] <robtaylor> (flights are good =))
[04:34] <carlos> :-)
[04:34] <robtaylor> carlos: np, but just to let you know its usable..
[04:34] <carlos> robtaylor: I cannot do it from Barcelona  - Valencia
[04:34] <carlos> it's only 35 minutes
[04:34] <carlos> ;-)
[04:34] <robtaylor> heh
[04:34] <robtaylor> once you're up, you're already comingt down...
[04:36] <robtaylor> pitti, mdz: if etheir of you'd like to have a look at it, i have a bazaar repo at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:36] <robtaylor> see accessd/test for a basic example
[04:37] <robtaylor> ross: um, think of it as sudo over dbus (kinda)
[04:37] <robtaylor> but not really =)
[04:37] <ross> hm, interesting
[04:37] <robtaylor> i seems to have lost my writeup on it :(
[04:39] <pitti> robtaylor: thanks, I will take a look at it
[04:39] <robtaylor> pitti: thanks :)
[04:39] <pitti> robtaylor: carlos and I talked a lot about its architecture
[04:40] <pitti> robtaylor: apart from a few small things it looks pretty good
[04:40] <robtaylor> i heard. well this impliments the 'basic' version. I'm still keen to do the 'privilage elevation' version too, tho
[04:40] <Kinnison> robtaylor: hey dude
[04:40] <Kinnison> robtaylor: Not seen a mail about pub trips yet. you slackarse
[04:41] <Kinnison> oooh fluffling
[04:41] <robtaylor> hey, i only just about managed to get to work this morning..
[04:41] <robtaylor> never mind do any *thinking* or *doing*
[04:41] <robtaylor> =)
[04:42] <robtaylor> Kinnison: when did we decide would be a good day to do it?
[04:45] <robtaylor> Kinnison: sunday/monday?
[04:46] <Kinnison> robtaylor: sunday/monday is when I'm around
[04:47] <Kinnison> robtaylor: saturday I'll be half-dead and tuesday I'm driving to .ed
[04:47] <robtaylor> ok.
[04:53] <fabbione> lamont_r: wb
[04:53] <fabbione> sparc64 > ia64 :)
[04:53] <fabbione> i have a working installer... do you? :P
[04:54] <lamont_r> fabbione: I'm not working on ia64
[04:54] <lamont_r> but I might have something akin to a working installer - dunno
[04:54] <fabbione> i know... but i still love to tease you
[04:54] <lamont_r> Kamion: ia64 cdroms?
[04:55] <mvo> can I see my recent edited pages in the wiki?
[05:00] <Kamion> lamont_r: still waiting for the base-config .deb
[05:00] <Kamion> then I'll rebuild CDs and *then* they should work ...
[05:02] <lamont_r> cool
[05:06] <robtaylor> Kinnison: do you want to do the appropriate rallying of Uk troops currently based in mataro? ;)
[05:20] <sivang> Does anybody know stewart bishops's nickname?
[05:20] <thom> sivang: stub
[05:20] <sivang> tnx
[05:21] <Kinnison> robtaylor: post to debian-uk
[05:23] <robtaylor> Kinnison: already done...
[05:24] <Kinnison> robtaylor: that should be enough
[05:24] <robtaylor> okly dokly
[05:28] <Kinnison> "Kinnison and I"
[05:28] <Kinnison> I ask you
[05:28] <Kinnison> tsk
[05:28] <robtaylor> i'm forgetting that theres more to england than cambridge.. tahts a bit worrying...
[05:29] <robtaylor> oh, you dont liek Kinnson usage anywhere out of irc, ok  ;)
[05:29] <robtaylor> your names too long :P
[05:31] <Kinnison> 'Daniel Silverstone' is hardly wrist-breaking typage
[05:31] <bob2> you can shrten the surname to just 'stone', tho
[05:31] <robtaylor> hehhehe
[05:31] <ross> haha
[05:31] <robtaylor> or mabe silvers?
[05:32] <RubenV> has anyone tested gst-ffmpeg recently?
[05:32] <robtaylor> no namespace clashes there, shurly?
[05:32] <robtaylor> heh
[05:32] <thom> D.*[Ss] .*
[05:33] <mjg59> Why does Bugzilla only have x86 kernels listed in it?
[05:33] <Kinnison> robtaylor: 'dsilvers' is acceptable
[05:33] <RubenV> I've just rebuilt debian gst-ffmpeg packages for ubuntu and still they act sluggish, anyone wanna test if it's just my pc or the soft?
[05:33] <Kinnison> robtaylor: although few people would recognise that
[05:33] <RubenV> http://files.lambda1.be/linux/gst-ffmpeg/
[05:35] <robtaylor> Kinnison: i shall brave the usage of your full name in future, dont worry ;) (sorry, btw :( )
[05:50] <Simira> http://www.simira.net/UbuntuWomen.html - My article about Ubuntu and women in open source
[05:52] <lamont_r> mdz/mvo either one here still?
[05:52] <pitti> lamont_r: they already went to BCN
[05:52] <lamont_r> ok
[05:57] <bob2> Simira: nice!
[05:58] <Simira> :)
[06:08] <TD> hi. i'm wondering what the problem with the implementation of NetworkManager is?
[06:08] <TD> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NetworkMagic implies it's bad somehow, but doesn't elaborate which is remarkably poor form really
[06:08] <tseng> the problem is NM is flakey to the max
[06:09] <tseng> there isnt a single problem that can be explained, just try using it for a few hours
[06:09] <TD> if i could figure out if it was finished, supposed to work etc, i would. it doesn't seem to ship with FC3 though
[06:09] <TD> i guess that's why ...
[06:09] <thom> TD: the intention is that we (i) will flesh that out at some point. our problems are:
[06:10] <thom> it doesn't tie into the underlying OS config at all
[06:10] <thom> it's *very* unstable, and actually getting worse rather than better right now
[06:10] <thom> it's bloating at a horrible rate - it now does DHCP for itself, eg
[06:11] <TD> erp
[06:11] <thom> the NM protocol is great. the implementation at this point is not good
[06:11] <TD> have these concerns been raised with red hat?
[06:12] <thom> TD: as a coherent whole, no. in individual parts, a lot of them have been raised on the list
[06:15] <TD> that's weird, danw claims they can't use g_spawn_sync ...
[06:16] <TD> hence they have to incorporate the dhcp client code into the program itself, which sounds odd
[06:17] <TD> oh, well, his reasons do seem to make senes
[06:20] <thom> they're internally consistent, but it's not really a direction we were happy to follow
[06:21] <TD> well, if dhcp is better done inside NM why is that a problem? i'm not sure why it has to be done by a separate process, even though that's traditional
[06:22] <thom> TD: because it makes it utterly hard to integrate our config and NM
[06:22] <thom> TD: NM should play with the underlying network config, not stomp all over iot
[06:23] <robtaylor> thom: what about gst?
[06:24] <thom> robtaylor: current plan is to use netapplet and integrate with gst well
[06:24] <robtaylor> thom: ok
[06:27] <TD> what is our config? you mean the custom debian scripts and such?
[06:29] <thom> TD: /etc/network/interfaces etc
[06:30] <TD> right
[06:30] <thom> TD: on debian, network config should go via ifupdown, because you can use scripts and mappings to plug in things like guessnet and configuring smarthosts for the mta
[06:30] <TD> i guess that's a philosophy issue. NM is supposed to replace it, if I understand correctly, rather than sit on top of it
[06:31] <thom> yeah. which is not desirable IOO. we'll probably end up using the dbus protocol so we can do the online querying stuff for gnome and so on
[06:32] <robtaylor> thom: dbus good. one tool that manages all network stufgf. then make ifup/ifdown talk  to that..
[06:32] <robtaylor> (hey, and then you can use accessd *plug* ;))
[06:33] <thom> robtaylor: *g*
[06:38] <Treenaks> robtaylor: WTF is accessd?
[06:41] <robtaylor> ah. i can tell i'll get asked this a lot.. i better write it up
[06:42] <robtaylor> Treenaks: a dbus authorisation daemon.
[06:42] <Treenaks> robtaylor: ah, so I might use that in my hal-nmea-detect script to get access to the serial port, for example? or is it entirely intra-dbus?
[06:43] <robtaylor> actually its nothing incredibly clever at all. the basic idea is each daemion that provides a service looks up which user made the requiest and asks accessd it that user has right to do that
[06:44] <robtaylor> Treenaks: what does your hal-nmea-detect script do?
[06:44] <robtaylor> Treenaks: current implemnation is at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:45] <Treenaks> robtaylor: it opens the newly-detected serial port and listens for 3 seconds to see if it's a NMEA-compatible GPS
[06:49] <robtaylor> Treenaks: its a dbus service?
[06:50] <Kamion> daniels: l-r-m uploaded
[06:50] <Treenaks> robtaylor: so it's intra-dbus,  OK
[06:51] <Treenaks> :)
[06:51] <Treenaks> robtaylor: it's not a dbus-based sudo-ish thing,  that's what I mean :)
[06:52] <robtaylor> Treenaks: well, given it, it is trivial to implement a dbus-based sudoish thing, but that just a subset of the fnty i wanted to make possible..
[06:54] <robtaylor> Treenaks: i dont userstand why your script is running as the user?
[06:54] <Treenaks> robtaylor: because hald runs scripts as user hal
[06:54] <Treenaks> robtaylor: so there are 2 solutions: suexec or adduser hal dialout (because it's a serial port :))
[06:54] <robtaylor> ah
[06:58] <robtaylor> Treenaks: hmm. even with accessd you end up haveing to give the hal user dialout rights :/
[06:59] <robtaylor> (well you can make it more fine granied..)
[06:59] <bob2> selinux!
[06:59] <Treenaks> bob2: here's a bar of soap. please go wash your mouth.
[07:01] <robtaylor> really you want hald to say 'this script is meant for accessding this hardware device, it should have right to access it'
[07:02] <robtaylor> s/ is meant for accessding/ is being run to configure
[07:02] <robtaylor> hmm
[07:03] <robtaylor> thats non-trivial
[07:03] <robtaylor> I'll think on it.. time for home :)
[07:03] <robtaylor> laters all
[07:06] <zul> Treenaks: heh i started selinux for ubuntu
[07:08] <daniels> Kamion: cheers
[07:09] <Kamion> daniels: (hm, they told me downstairs that you'd gone to Barcelona)
[07:09] <daniels> Kamion: (this LUG has wifi)
[07:09] <Kamion> aha
[07:12] <Treenaks> daniels: are they impressed by your leet start-up crack? :)
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: dude!!! without network I'm not able to use my computer
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: you broke my GNOME!!
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: ;-)
[07:15] <daniels> Treenaks: haven't started talking yet!
[07:17] <Treenaks> daniels: you turned your laptop on, didn't you? :)
[07:19] <daniels> Treenaks: well yeah, but I'm still just sitting around
[07:19] <Treenaks> :)
[07:20] <seb128> carlos, no way dude
[07:21] <carlos> seb128: I'm not joking
[07:21] <carlos> without network I cannot use GNOME
[07:22] <carlos> empty desktop and empty panel
[07:22] <seb128> ??
[07:22] <seb128> no way
[07:22] <daniels> stop using an NFS-mounted /home :P
[07:22] <seb128>  killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet
[07:23] <carlos> daniels: I'm not in home
[07:23] <carlos> seb128: restarting the computer
[07:23] <seb128> ok
[07:23] <seb128> good luck
[07:25] <carlos> seb128: I was trying to turn it on in the bus
[07:25] <carlos> I was not able
[07:25] <carlos> I will show it as soon as I'm back in matar
[07:25] <seb128> ok
[07:28] <TD> robtaylor|away: isn't the selinux integration supposed to do that?
[08:32] <motaboy> Sorry if I'm doing a stupid question, but I'm a little kde "developer" and I'm curious to know what's the ubuntu's idea about kde. Are you searching for people that will help you with kde related stuffs?
[08:41] <RubenV> motaboy: there's info about kubuntu on the wiki, i think
[08:45] <motaboy> RubenV: Thanks.
[08:56] <Riddell> motaboy: what sort of KDE development do you do and what sort of ubuntu kde development are you interested in?
[08:57] <motaboy> Riddell: well. I started doing kde-bluetooth and now I'm a gentoo developer on the kde ebuilds, but for work I've always used both gentoo and debian
[09:07] <RubenV> I'm trying to build coaster packages, if I'm successfull, I'll post a msg on the devel list
[09:19] <mjg59> Anyone out there got a T-series Thinkpad that /doesn't/ consume too much battery on ACPI suspend?
[09:19] <mjg59> (When suspended, you should lose about 1% of battery an hour. If it's closer to 10, you have a problem)
[09:20] <lifeless> mjg59: a thought, could you add that & to ifup -a in resume.sh ?
[09:21] <mjg59> lifeless: Grngk. Yeah.
[09:21] <lifeless> :)
[09:21] <mjg59> daniels was planning on getting stuff into hoary in the near future, so I may just let him do it
[09:21] <lifeless> heh.
[09:23] <daniels> mjg59: fo'shizzle
[09:23] <ironwolf> fo'shizzle?
[09:24] <daniels> 'absolutely'
[09:35] <RubenV> checking for xmlcatalog... not found
[09:35] <RubenV> configure: error:
[09:35] <RubenV> *** Ooops, couldn't find xmlcatalog.  Actually this should
[09:35] <RubenV> *** never happen at this point, which means your system is really broken.
[09:35] <RubenV> euh, anyone knows this?
[09:36] <RubenV> gah, wrong chan, sry
[09:40] <Treenaks> apt-get install xmlcatalog?
[09:42] <RubenV> appearantly it's in libxml2-utils
[09:42] <RubenV> coaster is building now
[09:42] <RubenV> let's see what it gives
[09:59] <RubenV> Ok I've got coaster building & packaging
[09:59] <RubenV> unfortunately it segfaults when i start it
[09:59] <RubenV> i give up
[09:59] <Treenaks> RubenV: apt-get install valgrind
[09:59] <RubenV> can't work with valgrind (never did)
[10:00] <Treenaks> RubenV: valgrind coaster<enteR>
[10:00] <Treenaks> read output :)
[10:01] <RubenV> that almost killed my system
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== ERROR SUMMARY: 25 errors from 8 contexts (suppressed: 171 from 1)
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== malloc/free: in use at exit: 1023191 bytes in 26633 blocks.
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== malloc/free: 72451 allocs, 45818 frees, 3614708 bytes allocated.
[10:03] <Treenaks> RubenV: build with debug symbols and it'll tell you the source lines and file names of the errors
[10:03] <RubenV> that's gonna be for some other day
[10:03] <RubenV> i'm tired of building :)
[10:03] <Treenaks> :)
[10:03] <Treenaks> RubenV: jump off
[10:04] <RubenV> I managed to bump libbakery to 2.3.11
[10:04] <RubenV> but coaster is giving me headache
[10:04] <RubenV> now i know why there are no packages for coaster :)
[10:48] <haggai> motaboy: hi, why don't you join us on #kubuntu-devel
[10:49] <motaboy> haggai: ok, thanks
[10:55] <Kamion> these CD builds are just so totally jinxed
[11:04] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync mtr from Debian?
[11:16] <elmo> pitti: done
[11:37] <pitti> elmo: thx


[01:03] <bodie_> "unexpose" doesn't seem to be doing anything on digitalocean via JuDO; is this a known issue?
[01:14] <bodie_> ah, according to the doc it looks like expose triggers a hook which is expected to implement the desired effect


[12:15] <confrey> hi everybody
[12:17] <confrey> just installed ubuntustudio, but I can't start jackd server (using qjackctl)
[13:33] <confrey> hi everybody
[13:33] <confrey> anybody listening?
[13:33] <confrey> just installed ubuntustudio, but jackd doesn't start
[16:24] <Vocht> Hi to you all! Anyone around to help me with some things?
[16:25] <OvenWerks> Just ask... not sure if I will be able to help :) but if you put a question out someone may answer some time later
[16:28] <Vocht> Thank you :). Let me start off by saying that I've literally tried this whole week to do install everything correctly myself, but I can't seem to figure it out.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> OK, can you tell us more?
[16:29] <Vocht> Yeah, I pressed SHIFT+ENTER, hoping it wouldn't send it straight towards you.
[16:29] <Vocht> But it didn't, lol.  The thing is, I recently bought Presonus Studio One v3 and would like to continue using it. But no way I'm ever going back to Windows. I saw a Gold status on WineHQ so I think it might work. Now what I'd like to know is how I setup my drives correctly. I want to Install Linux on my SSD. (Crucial M4) My WineHQ drives will be SATA 600
[16:36] <Vocht> I used Gparted to try and setup things correctly. I also cleaned all my disks already.
[16:37] <OvenWerks> The installing linux part is easy enough. Just choose the disk you want it to go on.
[16:37] <Vocht> Thanks, yes - I did this already a couple of times.
[16:38] <OvenWerks> The wine part I am less familiar with as I have never used windows. (Atari, DRdos, OS/2, Linux)
[16:38] <Vocht> Ah, very smart.
[16:39] <OvenWerks> however, I think you have two choices with the wine drive
[16:40] <OvenWerks> Format it ext4 and put a wine directory on it or put a windows partition on it and use that.
[16:41] <Vocht> Yeah exactly, I was reading something like that on a forum. Thanks. How exactly can I do this?
[16:41] <OvenWerks> The actualy set up of wine (or winert) is beyond me)
[16:41] <Vocht> Is it all part of the ubuntu studio setup wizard? Or should I use gparted (live)
[16:41] <Vocht> Ah yes, so you said
[16:42] <OvenWerks> the ubuntustudio will set up your ssd and you could use gparted to format the wine drive.
[16:43] <OvenWerks> if you wish to format as ext4, just select that.
[16:44] <OvenWerks> The first time you run wine, it will ask where to put it's windows Image or fake drive.
[16:45] <Vocht> Alright! So euuhm
[16:45] <OvenWerks> I t may be easier to format the windows drive at Studio install time...
[16:45] <OvenWerks> the ssd would be formatted as ext4 and mounted as /.
[16:45] <Vocht> Yeah, I'd like to make 2 partions, basically. I'm in the setup process now
[16:46] <OvenWerks> this would be using the "something else" selection while installing
[16:46] <Vocht> Not installing yet, just clicked on release notes and then I saw I could use Firefox.
[16:48] <OvenWerks> the choose to make a partition on the windows drive as well, but mount it somewhere else... I would choose /home/wine
[16:48] <Vocht> okay, I go try and do the something else thing now
[16:49] <Vocht> I'll first save your very helpful advice
[16:53] <Vocht> I'll be back if it works, also if it doesn't work :) Thanks for now, much appreciated!
[17:46] <DaDaCinnamon> Hi guys ... :)


[11:17] <`Fibz> im sure yall are sick of me. just remember i thank you and i represent ~100 users
[11:18] <`Fibz> and for the most part we would like to thank you
[11:18] <`Fibz> the rest are just business people who dont understand what u go through
[11:19] <`Fibz> thanks again!
[13:49] <manu> hi
[13:50] <manu> i just install ubuntu studio i need to install usb card i can't edit alsa-base.conf
[13:50] <manu> can someone help me ?
[14:29] <prakash> hi
[14:53] <Caveat> oi
[15:30] <nixnine> hey guys, i have a problem with studio 13.10.  My drives are now read only.  I had this problem with 12.10 . I installed 13.04.  Everything worked fine until I installed 13.10.  Everything ran fine for a couple months, but about a month ago the read only situation occurred again.
[15:31] <nixnine> Now I'm wondering should i reinstall 13.10 or install 14.04 fresh
[19:15] <steve_> I have a 1024x768 screen.  I just installed Ubuntu Studio 14.04.  It tells me that I have a 640x480 screen.  That is not the case, but I can't get Ubuntu Studio to let me do that.  How can I succeed?
[19:21] <a_panov> is there in new 14.04 close source nVidia drivers?
[19:24] <a_panov> I have soket 775 mobo with nVidia chipset, with free drivers it's freeze at every 5 minutes, I try once close source drv and everything was well
[20:07] <Lehthanis> hey all, anyone here have any experience with video recording?
[20:11] <Lehthanis> because I need to figure out if there's any affordable video capture cards that I can use to bring in two camera feeds and record a stream where I can choose a camera angle live.
[20:11] <Lehthanis> kinda like recording from a hardware video mixer, but doing the mixing on the software side.
[20:30] <fizzle> Just a quick question I can't seem to find an answer to. Is it gimp 2.6 that's included in ubuntu studio?
[20:41] <holstein> Lehthanis: i would just ask a few manufacturers about linux support
[20:41] <holstein> Lehthanis: we dont do anything to prevent any capture cards from working, and neither does main ubuntu
[20:41] <holstein> Lehthanis: i would try doing what you are talking about *without* a capture card, but, with arguably more well supported USB devices
[20:42] <holstein> i was in a charity shop and bought a bunch of USB webcams for $10.. you could use some similarly cheap devices to get started, and replace them with USB cams of better quality
[20:45] <Lehthanis> holstein: we already have two camcorders mounted and ready to go though and they have hdmi out.
[20:46] <Lehthanis> so I was hoping to find a card with two hdmi inputs
[20:46] <holstein> Lehthanis: HDMI input into a linux machine in general is going to be both pricy, and challenging
[20:46] <holstein> Lehthanis: you want to find a card with 2 hdmi inputs.. with linux support
[20:46] <holstein> Lehthanis: im suggesting, get a few USB cams, and try linux
[20:46] <holstein> Lehthanis: this will be less headache for you in the beginning
[20:46] <Lehthanis> I found one but I don't know if it can run BOTH hdmi inputs at the same time
[20:47] <holstein> Lehthanis: you likely dont know if it works in linux at all
[20:47] <Lehthanis> you're right...I don't know much about this process actuall
[20:48] <holstein> Lehthanis: ideally, the manufacturer supports linux.. like they do now on the box with "windows support" or "OSX support"
[20:48] <Lehthanis> it doesn't have to be HDMI though...it can be a lower quality input...the camera also has an RCA output
[20:48] <holstein> Lehthanis: if they dont, then you are basically saying "no thanks, i'll support it myself"
[20:48] <holstein> that can be a challenging standpoint
[20:49] <holstein> its not about learning video production in linux at that point
[20:49] <holstein> it'll be about (if possible) implementing support for higly specialized, and usually proprietary devices
[20:49] <`Fibz> Lehthanis,  in that case, you can get Hauppauge capture cards for cheap. thats what we use.
[20:49] <holstein> Lehthanis: and if `Fibz can first hand suggest a card, thats a good place to start
[20:49] <Lehthanis> which hauppauge card can run two inputs at the same time?
[20:50] <Lehthanis> I was looking at the collosus and it has two inputs but one of them is a pass-through...whats that mean?
[20:51] <holstein> you'd need to ask them.. usually there are manuals online that are downloadable
[20:51] <holstein> what "pass through" means to me is, you can pass the signal through the device
[20:51] <holstein> meaning, you have the signal going to the computer, but you can chaing it out through something else.. but, i would confirm that with the manual
[20:52] <Lehthanis> gotcha...is there linux software that can show me the two inputs and choose which one to go into thr record stream?
[20:52] <holstein> many options for that, AFAIK
[20:53] <Lehthanis> `Fibz: do you know if there's a specific hauppauge card that can bring in the signal from two cameras?
[20:53] <`Fibz> im looking now. the ones i use are old and likely not easy to find
[20:53] <holstein> i would look at whatever webcam studio has become
[20:54] <Lehthanis> sweet...our church currently uses ubuntu studio for audio recording and have loved it so using it for video woudl be great
[20:55] <holstein> cool.. should work well
[20:56] <Lehthanis> the hardest part so far is figuring out the best card to use :(
[20:56] <holstein> Lehthanis: correct, and going to the OS for that is always kind of backwards
[20:56] <Lehthanis> well, I was hoping to draw on some experience in here
[20:57] <holstein> linux is open, from top to bottom.. so anyone can always provide excellent support for it for any product, but, to expect the OS to "patch" or "hack" support together can always be just that.. patched and hacky
[20:57] <holstein> when folks (like intel, typically) provide support, things literally just magically work
[20:57] <holstein> since the kernel is modular, and the drivers can be included for most modern hardware "out of the box
[20:57] <Lehthanis> hmmm...I think you're misunderstanding my question...I'm not asking for anyone to make anything...just figured I'd ask in here if anyone had any experience with this and what they use for it
[20:58] <holstein> Lehthanis: i understand completely
[20:58] <holstein> Lehthanis: im just telling you why i say, the better place to ask is, the manufacturer
[20:58] <Lehthanis> ahh I gotcha.
[20:58] <holstein> Lehthanis: if a video card manufacturer provided and promised linux support, it would likely work "out of the box"
[20:59] <Lehthanis> so if `Fibz has a card recommendation then I'm golden, otherwise I just need to find one that has linux drivers.
[20:59] <Lehthanis> and two inputs...then try a bunch of software
[20:59] <`Fibz> Lehthanis, ImpactVCB does for sure.
[20:59] <holstein> otherwise, i have a process these days that looks like this.. i ask the company  or search for linux native supported hardware.. then, i search google "linux model #" .. then, i have to actually get the hardware, and try it, first hand
[21:00] <`Fibz> if it doesnt have to all be on one card, almost all of their tuners include composite video and s-video inputs
[21:00] <holstein> it doesnt matter of other folks can hack it and make it work.. it has to work for me, and ideally, easily
[21:00] <holstein> i make certain, if new, i can return it.. and if used, i can either return, or get my money back out of it.. or, its cheap enough that i dont care if i lose money on the device
[21:01] <holstein> i mean, if `Fibz says a haugepauge device works, i trust him.. but, if you get it, and it doesnt.. we are community volunteers here
[21:01] <holstein> `Fibz wont be able to be responsible for making that device work for you
[21:01] <`Fibz> now that i think about it, i have a few of my hauppauge tuners up for sale. $15 for single channel, $30 for dual
[21:02] <holstein> for $30, i would risk that purchase and just try it
[21:02] <holstein> going in, knowing that im on my own
[21:02] <Lehthanis> hmmm...and the dual card has linux support?
[21:03] <holstein> Lehthanis: `Fibz says and claims first hand that it works for him
[21:03] <holstein> Lehthanis: this means that, it *should* have linux support.. but, no.. it doesnt have official linux support in any way
[21:04] <`Fibz> Lehthanis,  i would recommend two singles for what you are doing: http://xroads.x10.bz/xroads-network/index.php?do=/marketplace/view/tv-tuner-card-for-pc/
[21:05] <`Fibz> i run it on Ubuntu Studio 12, 14 and xubuntu 12.04
[21:05] <holstein> and, xubuntu = ubuntustudio = ubuntu
[21:06] <Lehthanis> why two singles instead of one dual just out of curiosity?
[21:07] <Lehthanis> I'll have to check the computer to see if it even has that many slots
[21:07] <`Fibz> because these are TV tuners, you would need to adapt the second to coax
[21:08] <`Fibz> they include only 1 composit and 1 s-video but only the coax can be used 2 at a time
[21:09] <Lehthanis> `Fibz: is there a way I can contact you later vie email or something?    And thanks for all the advice holstein
[21:12] <Lehthanis> I'll probably drop in here again to let you all know how it works out...
[21:13] <Lehthanis> `Fibz: I'll probably be checking with you abotu those cards later too.
[21:13] <Lehthanis> poss tonight or tomorrow
[21:13] <Lehthanis> have a good easter ;)


[11:35] <MarcWeber> Is there some logging support again or do I have to use script\n &> /var/log/foo \n end script ?
[12:20] <keesj> in scripts?
[12:22] <keesj> in 0.5.x upstart self tries to use syslog, for scripts it should be possible to lot to syslog but I have not seen that work
[12:23] <keesj> the "easy" thing to do IMHO is to use the logger command
[13:27] <MarcWeber> keesj: It's about reading error messages from startup scripts etc.
[13:28] <MarcWeber> upstart-0.3 had its own (bitrotted) daemon to log stdout and stderr of the scripts into a file
[13:29] <keesj> MarcWeber: how is this daemon called it that hte logd?
[13:30] <MarcWeber> It was called logd
[13:30] <MarcWeber> However using script &> file works fine in practise..
[13:33] <keesj> Yes, , what I sometime do is a ( echo bla ; do this; echo bla ) | while read line ;do  echo "SCRIPT_NAME:" $line ; done
[16:53] <geiseri_> hi, i have a even  that needs to wait for hal to be loaded, is there a way with the current upstart in Ubuntu intrepid to do this?
[17:18] <pkt> perhaps you mean a service that needs to wait for hal ?
[17:19] <geiseri_> well i want to start Xorg on boot for a live CD, but i guess the new Xorg wants to use hal to get input devices.
[17:19] <geiseri_> i had an upstart event script in event.d in hardy, but when i upgraded to intrepid it stopped working
[17:20] <geiseri_> diagnosis told me that it needed hal... so that is where i am stuck
[19:07] <MarcWeber> I'm trying to add upstart-0.5.1 support to nixos now. init ist started then nothing happens. Probably the job files aren't found? Is there a simpler way to debug this than patching upstart to support running as pid2 and running strace?
[19:13] <sadmac> MarcWeber: pass init=/sbin/init -v on the kernel command line
[19:14] <damjan> Anybody here? I'm installing Upstart in ArchLinux, and on startup I get a "unable to set oom adjustment" so the first job is not started
[19:15] <sadmac> damjan: your initrd needs to mount /proc
[19:15] <damjan> it seems to me that upstart tries to write to /proc/xxx/oom_adj .. but /proc is not mounted when upstart
[19:15] <MarcWeber> sadmac :-) After starting udev before upstart I get some output as well now :-)
[19:15] <damjan> sadmac: I'm not using a initrd
[19:15] <MarcWeber> damjan: Mount proc before running upstart.
[19:16] <sadmac> damjan: then it won't work right now (we don't like it either, it'll be fixed at some point. patches welcome)
[19:16] <MarcWeber> damjan: Also make sure that your kernel supports it..
[19:16] <MarcWeber> if it doesn't you can still patch upstart.
[19:16] <damjan> MarcWeber: supports what?
[19:16] <MarcWeber> oom
[19:17] <damjan> it should, I see /proc/1/oom_adj
[19:17] <damjan> why is that needed at all? how about completelly disableing that part of the code?
[19:17] <sadmac> damjan: go for it
[19:18] <damjan> what's the "But.." ? :)
[19:19] <sadmac> you don't get OOM support, and there's no flag, so you're doing it on your own. In a text editor.
[19:19] <geiseri_> what are the files called in the /etc/events.d directory?  are those events themselves?
[19:19] <sadmac> geiseri_: those are jobs
[19:19] <sadmac> geiseri_: its a poorly named folder
[19:19] <geiseri_> okay, no problem
[19:19] <geiseri_> so is there a list of events that i can start on and stop on somewhere?
[19:20] <MarcWeber> geiseri_: initctl list will show them all
[19:20] <sadmac> MarcWeber: those are jobs
[19:20] <MarcWeber> oh. I've missed that. sry
[19:20] <sadmac> geiseri_: there's an events manpage in fedora. think its on die.net too
[19:20] <damjan> well ... ok, going to reboot to try this :)
[19:20] <damjan> brb
[19:20] <geiseri_> okay, ill check there
[19:20] <geiseri_> im trying to start a job when hal is finished starting
[19:21] <geiseri_> if that is even possible right now
[19:21] <sadmac> start on started hal
[19:21]  * geiseri_ checks what he had
[19:22] <geiseri_> yeah i have that but it doesnt seem to be working
[19:22] <geiseri_> im on ubuntu intrepid, is this not supported in that version?
[19:22] <sadmac> are you starting on something else?
[19:24] <MarcWeber> geiseri_: You can log events when jobs are started..
[19:24] <geiseri_> im sorry im not parsing your question...  my line is "start of started hal" in my job in /etc/event.d/Xorg
[19:24] <sadmac> geiseri_: on, not of
[19:25] <geiseri_> MarcWeber: that is the --debug flag you can pass to the boot args?
[19:26] <geiseri_> sadmac: im trying to launch Xorg right after hal is started successfuly
[19:26] <sadmac> geiseri_: then start on started hal
[19:26] <MarcWeber> geiseri_: Try grep init /var/log/messages. Maybe it is all there..
[19:26] <sadmac> geiseri_: not of started, on started
[19:27] <geiseri_> sadmac: sorry i had a typo, that is what i have now...
[19:27] <sadmac> geiseri_: is the job that starts hal in fact named hal?
[19:27] <geiseri_> that im not sure... how would i find that out for certain?
[19:28] <sadmac> ls /etc/events.d
[19:28] <geiseri_> ah, i dont have one in there, it seems ubuntu still uses the sysv init compat stuff
[19:28] <geiseri_> so im assuming ill never get an event from there
[19:29] <sadmac> probably not. Fedora has some kinda chintzy event emulation for that stuff, but I don't think ubuntu followed on
[19:29] <geiseri_> ah okay
[19:29] <geiseri_> so if i put an initctl event hal in the end of my rc.local, that might do it?
[19:30] <sadmac> initctl emint
[19:30] <sadmac> *emit
[19:30] <sadmac> yes, that'd do it
[19:30] <geiseri_> ah, right
[19:30] <geiseri_> okay, let me give that a whirl
[20:41] <geiseri_> sadmac okay that seems to have worked, thanks
[20:41] <sadmac> cool
[20:47] <MarcWeber> Can I syntax check job files somehow?
[20:47] <geiseri_> sadmac: hrm... only one problem when i do the emit the rc.local blocks... should i be doing "initctl emit xorg &" so it starts in the background?
[20:48] <sadmac> geiseri_: initctl emit --no-wait I think was the option
[20:48] <geiseri_> ah
[20:48] <geiseri_> okay
[20:48]  * geiseri_ checks the man page
[20:50] <geiseri_> that looks like it might do it
[21:01] <MarcWeber> Can the default PATH be set to a sensible default?
[21:02] <MarcWeber> Or do I have to use env PATH=... in all job files?
[21:03] <sadmac_> define sensible?
[21:03] <MarcWeber> containing corutils such as touch and upstart itself..
[21:04] <sadmac_> don't think we have global environment. Might be a good RFE
[21:04] <MarcWeber> I don't mind adding env PATH=.. everywhere either
[21:04] <MarcWeber> It does'nt matter that much because nixos does already have some kind of abstraction. adding this myself is done very fast.
[21:05] <MarcWeber> I think this differs from upstart-0.3 somehow


[10:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot amd64 [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot arm64 [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot armhf [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot ppc64el [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot i386 [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot s390x [Bionic 18.04.5] (20101020ubuntu543.17) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot amd64 [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot armhf [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot ppc64el [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot arm64 [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot s390x [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Netboot i386 [Xenial 16.04.7] (20101020ubuntu451.29) has been added


[10:30] <pleia2> can someone put this on the fridge? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2016-September/002563.html
[10:30] <pleia2> I'm about to board a flight
[10:31] <pleia2> see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/04/28/ubuntu-online-summit-3-5-may/ for an example
[10:31] <pleia2> this one won't have links, just the typical copying we do of a mailing list post
[10:32] <pleia2> was giving fridge link so you can see the tags and categories used :)
[10:32]  * pleia2 airplane
[11:21] <guiverc> tsimonq2:  Hi Simon, did you see Lyz's request re: online summit 15-16 nov 2016 request for ubu.fridge?
[11:22] <guiverc> the only way I can see for me to do it, would result I think in you/lyz/... getting a request for it to be done.
[11:24] <tsimonq2> guiverc: that's how dholbach sent it
[11:25] <guiverc> i suspected as such... i don't see how I could do otherwise (ie. fulfill Lyz's request on here about an hour ago)
[11:25] <tsimonq2> < dholbach> tsimonq2, yes - there was the concern that ubucon europe would be too close for travel
[11:25] <tsimonq2> there ya go ^
[23:24] <tsimonq2> https://www.gofundme.com/ReunionRoadblock/ :(


[11:01] <miha> hello peoples :D
[11:09] <aquarius> hi miha
[11:09] <miha> hey, instace of NWO. no new age for you.
[11:09] <miha> hehe
[11:10] <aquarius> :)
[11:10] <miha> (last time "in this New World Order" was mentioned on CNN.. i guess it's official now)
[13:32] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, ping
[13:32] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: pong
[13:32] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, so, I have packages for n900
[13:32] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, but
[13:32] <homeasvs_> I have a cryptic erlang error on couchdb startup
[13:32] <homeasvs_> http://pastebin.com/d287f37b9
[13:32] <rodrigo_> hmm, what error is it?
[13:32] <homeasvs_> any idea what that's about ?
[13:33] <rodrigo_> no, we'd better ask on the #couchdb channel
[13:33] <rodrigo_> can you do it please? I'm out for a lunch, bbiab
[13:33] <homeasvs_> sure
[13:33] <homeasvs_> hm, some googling suggests I did not compile erlang with ssl
[13:33] <rodrigo_> oh, yopu already did :)
[13:33] <homeasvs_> that would, uhm, 'suck' to figure out now
[13:34] <rodrigo_> yeah
[13:34] <rodrigo_> ok, bbiab
[13:37] <aquarius> homeasvs_, "init terminating in do_boot" is a generic "it didn't start up properly for some reason" error :(
[13:37] <aquarius> homeasvs_, quite often it means "I tried to use a library and it wasn't there", which lends weight to your SSL theory
[13:37] <aquarius> homeasvs_, although I've had it do the same thing when spidermonkey wasn't available too
[13:38] <homeasvs_> aquarius, it looks like ssl, not sure though why it was not built, investigating now
[13:39] <homeasvs_> aquarius,                    --enable-dynamic-ssl-lib \
[13:39] <homeasvs_>                     --without-ssl-zlib
[13:39] <homeasvs_> that's in the deb build
[13:39] <homeasvs_> aquarius, any idea what exactly that then does ?
[13:40] <aquarius> homeasvs_, I haven't, sorry. I don't know about the build stuff; you want cardinalfang for that, I think
[13:40] <aquarius> #couchdb may be more helpful
[13:40] <aquarius> heh, in fact they are already being more helpful :)
[13:58] <homeasvs_> aquarius, rodrigo_ ok, one crash further
[13:58] <homeasvs_> it's so close I can smell it
[13:58] <homeasvs_> aquarius, will you be getting an n900 if this works ? :)
[13:58] <aquarius> progress by crashing! :)
[13:58] <aquarius> homeasvs_, I don't like physical keyboards, otherwise I'd already be agitating for one, I think :)
[13:59] <homeasvs_> aquarius, you don't have to use the physical one :)
[13:59] <aquarius> homeasvs_, yeah, but then I've got a phone which is half an inch thicker than it needs to be....
[13:59] <homeasvs_> aquarius, if half of that is couchdb, why does it matter ? :)
[14:00] <homeasvs_> but I feel you, this phone is big in comparison to my e51 from before
[14:00]  * aquarius grins. I do rather like the idea of couch on the phone, I admit it
[14:20] <urbanape> morning, all
[14:33] <rtgz> mornin.gz
[14:39] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: cool :)
[14:42] <homeasvs_> sweet baby jesus
[14:42] <homeasvs_> I just browsed to futon running from my phone
[14:42] <homeasvs_> this calls for some food
[14:44] <rodrigo_> woohoo!
[14:58] <dobey> hmm
[15:01] <CardinalFang> Desktop+ MEETING BEGINS.  Say 'me' to claim a slice of the stand-up meeting, then take your turn by saying DONE/TODO/BLOCKED.
[15:04] <rodrigo_> me
[15:05] <CardinalFang> me
[15:05] <aquarius> me
[15:05] <dobey> rodrigo_: should i comment on your blog or your facebook? I don't know any more what the cool thing to do is :)
[15:05] <dobey> me
[15:05] <rodrigo_> dobey: up to you, I'll get notifications on both :)
[15:06] <rodrigo_> dobey: the cool thing though is to do it via your Palm Pre :D
[15:07] <rodrigo_> dobey: and it would be super cool if you could re-review my libubutuone branch you commented on last Friday :)
[15:07] <dobey> yes i will
[15:07] <dobey> where is everyone else?
[15:07] <aquarius> jblount is off ill
[15:07] <dobey> ChipAway, urbanape: ping
[15:09] <dobey> vds: ping
[15:09] <dobey> jblount is sick and teknico is on holiday
[15:10] <dobey> rodrigo_: eh, let's get this over with :)
[15:10] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:10] <rodrigo_> • DONE: Started adding search to contacts picker. Conboy unstable testing. XML<->HTML fixes
[15:10] <rodrigo_> • TODO: Conflict resolver tool in pair tool. Look at becoming a MOTU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers). Make sandy's snowy test suite work with our server (http://git.gnome.org/cgit/snowy/tree/api/tests.py). Discuss with jdo and aquarius about oauth token per app, not per machine?
[15:10] <rodrigo_> • BLOCKED: no
[15:10] <rodrigo_> CardinalFang: go!
[15:10] <urbanape> me
[15:11] <CardinalFang> DONE: Attachments.  Finally figure it out.  Played with GTG started writing desktopcouch backend storage.
[15:11] <CardinalFang> TODO: Still testing weird edge cases.  May have to harass python-couchdb upstream.
[15:11] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: None
[15:11] <CardinalFang> aquarius.
[15:11] <aquarius> ⚀ DONE:  talk to thisfred and vds about sequence numbers etc; talk to #couchdb about sequence numbers; review duty; decide on lxml, not BeautifulSoup, for html parsing with rodrigo
[15:11] <aquarius> ⚁ TODO: make tomboy first-sync experience nicer; continue work on desktopcouch developer docs; write up things learned at UDS/sprint; work with rodrigo on Music Store, much more music store architecture planning; step-by-step guide to what happens during contact sync
[15:11] <aquarius> ⚂ BLOCKED:
[15:11] <aquarius> dobey: go
[15:11] <dobey> ☺ DONE: Reviews, SSO call, Triage
[15:11] <dobey> ☹ TODO: Homework, Review/Fix #479375, Finish Backporting, Triage, Prepare releases/SRUs
[15:11] <dobey> ☹ BLCK: None.
[15:11] <dobey> urbanape: rock on
[15:11] <urbanape> DONE: Got ubuntuone-servers branch back from the dead, handed off to jblount for some CSS lovin
[15:11] <urbanape> TODO: Get it landed. Move on to other bugs and Bindwood.
[15:11] <urbanape> EOM?
[15:11] <urbanape> BLOCK: None
[15:17] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk, aquarius: around here?
[15:17] <aquarius> ya
[15:17] <sandy|lurk> yup
[15:18] <rodrigo_> ok, so about storing HTML vs XML on our database, sandy|lurk, could you please share your concerns with aquarius?
[15:18] <sandy|lurk> sure
[15:18] <sandy|lurk> so currently there's this bug in the XML<->HTML parser
[15:18] <sandy|lurk> which messes up bulleted lists a bit
[15:18] <aquarius> yes
[15:18] <sandy|lurk> at first I thought, okay, no big deal, should only affect users who edit notes in U1
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> but then I realized that actually, you store HTML, and the conversion happens on each sync
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> well, this means anyone syncing experiences the bug
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> so even though I'm sure this will be fixed soon
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> this sort of thing could easily come up again
[15:19] <aquarius> yes.
[15:19] <aquarius> Your proposed alternative is, I imagine, store tomboy's XML in the DB, yes?
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> so I'd advocate storing the native XML format of the REST API instead
[15:19] <sandy|lurk> yup
[15:20] <aquarius> my problem with doing that is that we have to have a working html-to-xml converter for the web UI anyway.
[15:20] <rodrigo_> aquarius: well, it makes sense, since it's the format used by tomboy, conboy, tomdroid, etc
[15:20] <sandy|lurk> as I explained to rodrigo, I woudl guess that most users using Tomboy+U1 are using it for syncing, then a subset uses it for viewing too, and then a smaller subset uses it for editing
[15:20] <rodrigo_> aquarius: or an editor that knows about the XML format, would that be too hard?
[15:20] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, check my facebook :)
[15:20] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: yeah, I sympathize with that issue
[15:20] <aquarius> rodrigo_, yep, it's too hard. I tried that. Without writing a widget completely, completely from scratch, whcih is horrific pain
[15:21] <sandy|lurk> yes, the rich editors all use HTML
[15:21] <sandy|lurk> that makes sense
[15:21] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: you could have a cache, of course
[15:21] <aquarius> sandy|lurk, I'm trying to avoid the web UI falling behind if there's a problem. This way, if there's a problem we see it immediately and can fix it immediately
[15:21] <sandy|lurk> generate the HTML only when the user actually views the note...slowish the first time
[15:21] <aquarius> cache?
[15:21] <sandy|lurk> yeah, store both
[15:21] <aquarius> yeah, but we have to back-translate
[15:21] <aquarius> from arbitrary random HTML to tomboy XML
[15:22] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: only if they edit
[15:22] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: I understand that this way you see bugs faster
[15:22] <sandy|lurk> but users see bugs immediately that they woudl not expect
[15:22] <aquarius> yeah. I'm not completely averse to the idea of storing tomboy XML in the DB, I admit
[15:22] <sandy|lurk> I would not expect simply syncing my notes to modify them in any way
[15:22] <sandy|lurk> (as a user)
[15:23] <rodrigo_> storing both formats might be ok, I guess
[15:23] <aquarius> oh, I agree
[15:23] <sandy|lurk> yeah, I don't know what your space constraints are
[15:23] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: in a minute...
[15:23] <sandy|lurk> text is small but doubling the storage could hurt, I dunno
[15:24] <aquarius> space isn't a problem; my issue is that storing the same data twice is a flat-out invitation for them to get out of sync :)
[15:24] <sandy|lurk> but ideally, storing both would be my favorite soution
[15:24] <aquarius> if they're translatable, then you don't need to store them twice. If they're not translatable, then the web UI is irretrievably broken anyway
[15:24] <rodrigo_> yeah, and whenever you sync a note from tomboy, we need to convert, and the same when editing on the web
[15:24] <rodrigo_> which gives us the same problem, if there are new tags in the tomboy xml not understood by the converter
[15:25] <sandy|lurk> well you already convert every note during a sync
[15:25] <aquarius> my original intention was, as above, to make it so if it broke then it'd break for everyone and we'd notice and fix it fast
[15:25] <rodrigo_> yeah
[15:25] <sandy|lurk> even though most users will nver usethe HTML
[15:25] <rodrigo_> but if the converter is buggy, we have the same problem
[15:25] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: yeah, I understand that
[15:25] <sandy|lurk> but that seems pretty risky to me
[15:25] <aquarius> but I am starting to think that the better approach is to have it so when it breaks, it doesn't necessarily break everything
[15:25] <aquarius> so at least a subset of users won't experience the problem.
[15:26] <sandy|lurk> I think users using different editors on the same file may expect some weirdness
[15:26] <sandy|lurk> if I use Word and OO.o I expect formatting issues
[15:26] <sandy|lurk> ditto Tomboy and U1's note editor
[15:26] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: you mentioned some time ago that plugins would use their own XML markup if needed, right?
[15:26] <sandy|lurk> rodrigo_: yeah, many plugins add new XML tags
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> if your converter doesn't know about them today, I don't know what you guys do
[15:27] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: yay!
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> if I write a custom add-in
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> that only I know about
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> and I don't share it
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> and it adds a new XML tag
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> and then I sync to U1 and it gets lost even though I don't use the editor
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> I'd be sad
[15:27] <aquarius> it should, in theory, handle it (<sandy> gets converted to <span class="sandy"> and then gets converted back)
[15:27] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: ah, cool :-_)
[15:27] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, I'll see about getting my packages done properly, cleaning up, and putting them somewhere
[15:27] <aquarius> I did try to not have it throw away information ;)
[15:27] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, then next step would be desktopcouch stuff
[15:28] <sandy|lurk> aquarius: thanks
[15:28] <sandy|lurk> so then the only real concern is converter bugs
[15:28] <aquarius> the current parser doesn't eat indented notes because it throws away information, it eats indented notes because it's appending children to the wrong place in the tree
[15:29] <sandy|lurk> if the bug was limited to the editor it would just be annoying
[15:29] <sandy|lurk> since it's not, it's critical
[15:29] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: yay, I marked it as such
[15:29] <sandy|lurk> so a bug in the converter becomes a much bigger deal all of the sudden
[15:29] <aquarius> yeah, so it comes down to a straight-up choice between 1. converter bugs get noticed quickly because they break everyone, and 2. converter bugs only affect a subset of users but are less likely to get fixed when they do happen
[15:30] <sandy|lurk> well maybe I can help with 2) by providing good complex test notes
[15:30] <aquarius> I was leaning towards 1 (that's why we store HTML), but I am now leaning towards 2, with the caveat that we have to convert everyone's existing notes :)
[15:30] <sandy|lurk> I assume you guys have unit tests
[15:30] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: desktopcouch should be easier, I think, since python modules should be easy, right?
[15:30] <sandy|lurk> so better note data to test could help with 2
[15:30] <aquarius> good complex test notes would be good -- we do have unit tests for the converter, but they're not totally comprehensive (that's how we missed the nested-lists bug :))
[15:30] <sandy|lurk> cool, I'll try to get to that before next week then
[15:31] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: we have unit tests, but they don't test everything, so we're adding them
[15:31] <aquarius> do you have a set of complex notes for tomboy's own unit tests?
[15:31] <sandy|lurk> so Tomboy sucks wrt unit testing
[15:31] <sandy|lurk> but I do have complex notes in my own collection for ad-hoc testing
[15:31]  * aquarius grins
[15:32] <aquarius> us having them would help quite a lot :)
[15:32] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, yeah
[15:32] <sandy|lurk> when we were rewriting printing we came up with some fun gnarly notes to test with
[15:32] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, I guess it will depend on whether we need ubuntuone-storage-protocol
[15:32] <aquarius> we need to have a working converter first, though, so we can convert the stored format for current notes
[15:32] <sandy|lurk> okay, I've got to run...employee meeting starting
[15:32] <aquarius> sandy|lurk, cheers!
[15:32] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: that's for file sharing, so I guess not
[15:32] <homeasvs_> but even then, should still be doable.  Just want to clean up the current mess first before moving on, since I will probably need to pull in some couchdb patches as well for oauth
[15:32] <sandy|lurk> I also want to talk to you guys about note attachments at some point
[15:33] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, right, but I want to easily pair with u1 on the phone
[15:33] <aquarius> homeasvs_, you don't need any ubuntu one stuff at all for desktopcouch.
[15:33] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: ah, ok
[15:33] <rodrigo_> go homeasvs_ go! :D
[15:33] <aquarius> homeasvs_, you need a little bit of it in order to replicate couch to u1, but not much (just enough to get the oauth tokens)
[15:33] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: are attachments supported already in tomboy?
[15:33] <sandy|lurk> ie, how should we modify the REST API to support notes having files attached to them (images for example)
[15:33] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: ah ok
[15:33] <aquarius> sandy|lurk, that sounds like it'll be a fun conversation :)
[15:34] <sandy|lurk> rodrigo_: no, but I was working on it the other day
[15:34] <aquarius> sandy|lurk, ah! ok, good, I thought it was going to be a kicking for us about not supporting them ;)
[15:34] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: for images, I guess we need them
[15:34] <aquarius> sandy|lurk, happy to think about that, definitely :)
[15:34] <sandy|lurk> cool, thanks for the chat guys
[15:34] <rodrigo_> from our POV it should be easy, since we can store attachments with the couchdb documents
[15:34] <aquarius> yeah, as long as no-one attaches an iso image to a note or something ;)
[15:34] <rodrigo_> sandy|lurk: thanks to you :D
[15:35] <rodrigo_> aquarius: :)
[15:35] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: oh, you mentioned the sdk repo in some facebook message, where is that?
[15:35] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: I haven't seen anything about it when looking for repos
[15:36] <homeasvs_> rodrigo_, it's the one that is in your scratchbox
[15:36] <homeasvs_> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free
[15:36] <rodrigo_> homeasvs_: ah
[15:37] <aquarius> rodrigo_, so I think that we should 1. get the converter working 2. change the back-end storage format to tomboy XML 3. convert all the currently-stored notes
[15:37] <rodrigo_> aquarius: step by step, I'll work on 1 first :)
[15:39] <mandel> CardinalFang: ping
[15:39] <CardinalFang> mandel, hi
[15:40] <mandel> CardinalFang: hello, did u see my message regarding the record_id branch?
[15:41] <mandel> CardinalFang, all that conversation about the if statement and at the end I used to wrong logic <embarrassed>
[15:41] <CardinalFang> mandel, I haven't seen that message yet, no.
[15:41] <mandel> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mandel/desktopcouch/record_id/+merge/15424
[15:41] <mandel> CardinalFang, last message
[15:42] <mandel> CardinalFang, guillermo just changed to approved, but the code will not work
[15:42] <verterok> mandel, CardinalFang sorry :/
[15:42] <verterok> it has 2 approves...
[15:43] <verterok> mandel: CardinalFang: should I cange it back to Needs review/reject?
[15:43] <sandy|lurk> rodrigo_: here's a test note that was great for printing, though it only goes two-levels deep for bulleted lists: http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=127654
[15:43] <mandel> verterok, CardinalFang, I would, you can blame me, it was my fault :P
[15:43] <verterok> mandel: should I change it to needs review?
[15:44] <mandel> verterok, I would
[15:44] <verterok> ok, done
[15:44] <verterok> mandel: thanks for pinting this out :)
[15:44] <mandel> verterok, no problem, the new version in the branch has the correct logic plus a test to avoid any other problems like this
[15:45] <mandel> verterok, totalmente mi culpa ;)
[15:45] <verterok> mandel: ooh, I see. you should "resubmit" the branch ;-)
[15:45] <mandel> verterok, will do
[15:46] <mandel> verterok, I just have to do a second merge proposal?
[15:47] <verterok> mandel: no, from the merge proposal pag you can resubmit it, and launchpad creates a new merge proposal that superseeds the current
[15:47] <CardinalFang> verterok, mandel, usually it is best to push a new branch, but there's no reason to bother now.  Everyone who cares is here listening and knows what's going on.
[15:47] <CardinalFang> mandel, there's no red tape here.  Let's worry about the bug instead.
[15:48] <mandel> CardinalFang, so I just do a superseed merge, ok
[15:48] <CardinalFang> verterok, (I don't think one can resubmit a merged branch.  I may be wrong.)
[15:49] <verterok> CardinalFang: it's merged?
[15:49] <CardinalFang> Yes.
[15:49] <verterok> ooh, that's a different story
[15:49] <verterok> mandel: ^
[15:49] <CardinalFang> mandel, just push it as you intended to.  It's all good.
[15:50] <mandel> CardinalFang, verterok, so I do not do anything, right?
[15:50] <mandel> CardinalFang, verterok, I feel kind of stupid for that error...
[15:51] <verterok> mandel: what CardinalFang said
[15:51] <mandel> ok
[15:51] <verterok> mandel: no worries, I reviewed the branch and didn't see it :/
[15:55] <mandel> CardinalFang, I have pushed a new version of the branch with the changes + test
[15:55] <mandel> CardinalFang, although I can always push to a diff branch to make it explicit
[16:06] <CardinalFang> mandel, there's a problem with your test.  I'm adding a comment.
[16:15] <CardinalFang> mandel, comment added.   If clients push content that has been seen before, presumably we'll need to provide a recognizable response so the client knows it can deal with the record properly.
[17:49] <urbanape> "Hi, here's this bookmark."
[17:49] <urbanape> "Bah, our user deleted that weeks ago. Begone!"
[17:49] <urbanape> what HTTP response code would you use? Bad Request?
[17:50] <urbanape> 406 Not Acceptable?
[17:50] <urbanape> 410 Gone
[17:51] <urbanape> I think 410 matches that story.
[17:51] <rmcbride> 411 "highly embarrassing"?
[17:51]  * rmcbride makes up HTTP response codes at randome
[17:51] <CardinalFang> urbanape, I think upstream couchdb will be a better place to handle that, and I bet they will have something already planned.  Maybe jan____ knows.
[17:52] <urbanape> do you know off-hand what the conditions will be for determining identity? presumably the couch _id, right?
[17:53] <urbanape> software is hard. let's go shopping.
[17:56] <CardinalFang> jan____, without consulting #couchdb at all, we've been tossing around ideas for understanding and dealing with documents that are expunged from a database, so that replication doesn't reintroduce them.
[17:57] <urbanape> jan____: particularly when Couch isn't the primary storage, but is the replication medium.
[17:58] <thisfred> again: replication does not reintroduce deleted documents...
[17:58] <CardinalFang> Ah.
[17:58] <urbanape> thisfred: it's not about the replication
[17:59] <thisfred> right
[17:59] <CardinalFang> So it is a positive event.  Sorry.
[17:59] <urbanape> in Bindwood
[17:59] <urbanape> so that other clients don't reintroduce them
[17:59] <urbanape> (not replication, correct)
[18:00] <thisfred> I think the way to solve this is to monitor _changes, and act accordingly
[18:00] <urbanape> yes, but the question is what to monitor in changes? There has to be a there there to monitor
[18:00] <urbanape> if deletions show up as a document in the _changes feed, we're fine
[18:00] <thisfred> urbanape: ah, do delete events not show up?
[18:00] <thisfred> that would be an unfortunate omission
[18:00] <urbanape> I don't know, we don't delete documents
[18:01] <urbanape> lessee
[18:01] <thisfred> right, so we don't have the problem yet, or do we?
[18:02] <urbanape> yes, they show up in changes
[18:02] <urbanape> with a deleted flag
[18:02] <urbanape> yay, we're done.
[18:02] <urbanape> champagne and caviar, for everyone!
[18:02] <thisfred> Can I have double champagne if I pass on the caviar? :)
[18:03] <urbanape> no. Eat your fish eggs and like 'em.
[18:03]  * thisfred mopes
[18:03] <urbanape> CardinalFang: we (at least Bindwood) have no problems in this regard any longer.
[18:03] <urbanape> forget I ever ranted and/or raved.
[18:04] <urbanape> we'll actually just do delete documents and pull those changes from _changes when we normally poll.
[18:05] <aquarius> urbanape, yo
[18:05] <urbanape> aquarius: never mind, we solved it.
[18:06] <aquarius> urbanape, oh, good. I shall read the scrollback :P
[18:08] <urbanape> summary: deleted docs show up in _changes with a deleted: True field in the record.
[18:09] <urbanape> so we don't need to tag records with deleted, now that we're polling _changes. We can just tell Couch to delete the doc, and it'll show up for other clients in _changes.
[18:09] <urbanape> We don't need to wait for history.
[18:13] <aquarius> as long as bindwood polls _changes, yeah. Excellent. That's just excellent, is what that is
[18:14] <aquarius> now all we need is chromium support for shelling out and then I can have my bookmarks back again :P
[18:25] <urbanape> yes, I need to hang out in #chromium some more.
[18:26] <urbanape> I just think it might be beyond their scope.
[18:26] <urbanape> Expeciallly in light of Chrome OS.
[18:27] <urbanape> "What would you shell out to? There is only the browser. What would you gain from an environment (in an env sense) that is only the browser?"
[18:28] <urbanape> and I don't think they want to entertain the notion of extensions that only run on "desktop OSes"
[18:30] <dobey> NOT A DESKTOP
[18:31] <dobey> kthx
[18:32] <dobey> :)
[18:32] <urbanape> your pedantry is quaint, but I don't think you're going to convince the world.
[18:34] <urbanape> I'm gonna start just calling everything jeejahs.
[18:34] <dobey> desktop jihad
[18:34] <dobey> convert or die :)
[18:35] <dobey> can we not get bookmarks and passwords out of chrome?
[18:36] <dobey> if not, it sounds like an antitrust suit waiting to happen :)
[18:37] <urbanape> we can get bookmarks. Not sure about passwords.
[18:37] <urbanape> the problem is we can't shell out to get our dbus couch port or get at our oauth tokens.
[18:38] <dobey> oh we can't run python?
[18:38] <urbanape> we can't shell out period.
[18:38] <urbanape> we can't run an external process
[18:39] <dobey> yes, that's what i was saying
[18:39] <dobey> do they provide some way to access local disk data from internals?
[18:39] <dobey> (please don't say "HTML5 storage")
[18:40] <urbanape> I believe you can get to file:/// resources, but I don't think there's a way to get to $USER from javascript, so per-user files would be hard to do.
[18:40] <urbanape> still learning some of this stuff, so it might be possible.
[18:41] <dobey> and you probably can't do things like read/write from/to unix sockets
[18:41] <urbanape> hmm, you can use NPAPI for "legacy" stuff.
[18:41] <dobey> what the heck is "legacy"?
[18:41] <dobey> certainly not a 2TB hard disk
[18:42] <urbanape> http://code.google.com/chrome/extensions/npapi.html
[18:42] <aquarius> "legacy": "anything that we don't explicitly provide as an extension API"
[18:45] <dobey> "anything that isn't google docs"
[19:00] <CardinalFang> aquarius, thisfred, mandel,  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller/desktopcouch/attachments/+merge/15765
[19:00] <CardinalFang> Review?  Complain?
[19:00]  * CardinalFang acquires comestibles.
[19:04] <aquarius> CardinalFang, why block overwriting of an existing attachment? to stop people doing it by accident?
[19:14] <CardinalFang> aquarius, Yes.  I want anything that destructive to be explicit.
[19:14] <aquarius> but record["foo"] = "bar" is destructive too, no? even if record["foo"] == "quux"
[19:14] <aquarius> and changes aren't *saved*
[19:15] <rtgz_> Just a thing I wanted to ask some days ago. Where does the diff containing debian/ directory come from for ubuntuone-client lp trunk?
[19:17] <CardinalFang> aquarius, They may understand index or key assignments, but the verb "attach" doesn't convey "be sure not to have the same name already, or you lose".
[19:17] <CardinalFang> replace() ?
[19:17] <aquarius> I see your point.
[19:18] <aquarius> don;t want replace() since most of the time you're not replacing anything
[19:18] <aquarius> yeah, maybe you're right. :)
[19:39] <mandel> CardinalFang, looking at it right now
[19:44] <mandel> CardinalFang: what about using an update rather than detach, attach???
[19:46] <thisfred> CardinalFang: looks good to me. Just one questions: Why do we not want CouchDB to provide ids for documents?
[19:46] <CardinalFang> thisfred, they say it's a bad idea.
[19:47] <thisfred> really?
[19:48] <mandel> thisfred, yes, it should be done in the client side, I had to do the same in my code
[19:48] <thisfred> Is the algorithm broken, or are there collission issues?
[19:48] <CardinalFang> From python-couchdb cleint.py  :  """Note that it is generally better to avoid the `create()` method and instead generate document IDs on the client side. This is due to the fact that the underlying HTTP ``POST`` method is not idempotent, and an automatic retry due to a problem somewhere on the networking stack may cause multiple documents being created in the database."""
[19:49] <thisfred> anyway, that's just curiosity. If it's a better idea not to, I'll change the server side code not to do it either
[19:49] <thisfred> CardinalFang: ah yes, that makes sense
[19:50] <thisfred> Not having transactions is the price we pay
[19:50] <CardinalFang> thisfred, I changed the server class, "put record".
[19:51] <mandel> thisfred, adding to what CardinalFang said: http://www.atypical.net/archive/2009/05/12/couchdb-090-bulk-document-post-performance
[19:51] <thisfred> CardinalFang: right, should be enough, just checking that I'm not putting anything else bypassing the API
[19:51] <thisfred> like users
[19:51] <urbanape> hmm, I was just about to noodle on how bindwood could drop the FF-generated UUIDs in favor of getting the next id from Couch and use that as the unifying foreign key.
[19:52] <urbanape> or am I misunderstanding that? Are they suggesting that clients generate ids for documents?
[19:53] <mandel> urbanape, yes, from my understanding, the client should generate the id
[19:54] <urbanape> even on id-less PUTs?
[19:55] <mandel> CardinalFang, got a question, why do you have a try block in list_attachments??
[19:55] <CardinalFang> urbanape, Yes.  HTTP isn't smart enough.  If you're going to be stateless, you have to be able to handle when you're redirected several times.  A (e.g.) proxy between you could PUT more than once, and that would cause problems.
[19:56] <urbanape> CardinalFang: fair enough, I suppose
[19:57] <CardinalFang> mandel, good find.  No reason, now.  I was creating _attachments somewhere else.  Now I make it at __init__(), and so I can be sure it exists.  I'll remove it.
[20:00] <mandel> CardinalFang: in the detach, you will have a keyword error when poping, do you want to give the default message or put your own? Maybe  "not existent attachment or empty" or something of the kind
[20:01] <mandel> CardinalFang, of course when working with an empty dict or none existing keyword, but I'm sure you knew what I meant ;)
[20:11] <CardinalFang> mandel, Okay, I added more descriptive KeyErrors.  Thank you.
[20:17] <mandel> CardinalFang, One last thing, if you are going to generate the id in the client side, why not moving that to the record constructor when the record_id or data["_id"] is none.
[20:18] <mandel> CardinalFang, I know it is less lazy, but from my point of view it looks nicer
[20:18] <mandel> CardinalFang, one stored the other one takes care of the id, but this is just my opinion
[20:19] <CardinalFang> mandel, I want to keep as much as possible like the old behavior.
[20:20] <mandel> CardinalFang, ok, I understand. Then everything looks great!
[20:21] <mandel> CardinalFang, I'l use it as soon as it is merged, thanks!
[21:03] <BlackPho> Hello
[21:04] <CardinalFang> Phở?  Yum.
[21:35] <kjoller> I have just gotten a (well, two) share-e-mails, but when I press the link, I get a "Something has gone wrong (500)". Nothing is available through the Ubuntu One folder either.
[21:39] <verterok> kjoller: hi, yes it's a known issue, it will be fixed real soon
[21:39] <kjoller> verterok: ok, great, thanks
[21:54] <statik> verterok, pfibiger: do we need a rollout before sharing is fixed?
[21:55] <statik> i am so woefully behind on things
[21:56] <dobey> statik: "A plan is just a list of things that don't get done."
[21:56] <verterok> statik: yes, the fix already landed
[21:57] <statik> cool, thanks
[22:16] <chatZilla> how do i relocate my files on ubuntuone to a different folder or rename a folder?
[22:31] <homeasvs_> sweet, python-couchdb is now also working on maemo
[22:31] <homeasvs_> and my commandline app runs too
[22:31] <homeasvs_> next up, a gui
[22:33] <jan____> CardinalFang: urbanape: ping me tomorrow CST time for discussion, sorry!


[01:37]  * davef laughs in -20C
[01:38] <davef> and to cheer myself up, just booked an all inclusive trip to Dominican Republic
[01:39] <penguin42> hmm, why DR, just because of the warmth?
[01:39] <davef> Yes
[01:40] <penguin42> I dont think I know of anyone who has holidayed there, but I do know they grow chocolate
[01:41] <daftykins> oooh
[01:41] <daftykins> big hiring location for baseball
[01:41] <davef> Never been myself, a few of my friends have. Recommended destination apparently.
[01:41] <davef> And I've always wanted to go to the Caribbean. I'm going to drown myself in rum.
[01:42] <penguin42> can you dunk a jaffa in rum?
[01:42] <daftykins> :) well take it easy!
[01:43] <daftykins> ooh i bet it's a jaffa free zone
[01:43] <davef> Only one way to find out. I have rum & jaffa cakes
[01:44] <davef> I need to hit reset, just seems to be the best way to do it.
[01:44] <penguin42> well, the rum should zero the brain
[01:44] <davef> I plan to lay on the beach and drink until the brain turns off.
[01:44] <daftykins> reset on your climate surroundings?
[01:44] <daftykins> oic
[01:47] <davef> looking forward to the jacuzzi, the pool, the beach, unlimited free food and drink.
[01:48] <penguin42> when is that?
[01:48] <davef> not until March
[01:48] <penguin42> do you intend to do anything until then or just count down the days?
[01:48] <daftykins> sounds worth waiting for!
[01:48] <davef> on my return I start planning my trip back to the UK in the summer.
[01:49] <davef> Need to do another jaffa cake run
[13:59] <penguin42> truly crazy flight diversion reports
[14:01] <zxmpi> someone diverting planes to load them with jaffa cakes? :-P
[14:02] <penguin42> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68053499
[14:14] <penguin42> anyone use any of the free credit check things? Any advice/thoughts?
[14:58] <penguin42> hmm, checkmyfile says everything is peachy
[23:25] <davef> yeah, sorry.. posted a NOTAM and sent messages on SITATEXT and AFTN to redirect arcraft.
[23:27] <davef> heh, the fact I remember my old employers AFTN address after all these years.. EGKKJPNX
[23:31] <davef> Heh and the old SITA text address pops into my brain too
[23:47] <penguin42> davef: Of course that's a Notice to Advise Mcvities