[00:15] <RobbyF> last few saucy images feel good.
[00:47] <Deihmos> is ubuntu touch usable as yet ?
[00:49] <Graogg> I'm just curious on the grouper development.  Anyone have up to date status for Nexus 7 touch?
[00:51] <Graogg> I'm a developer, and I was wanting to tests some tablet ideas for grouper.  I need to know what currently works and what doesn't.
[01:03] <Joe_B> @mhall119, that's even better.  Is there a date?
[01:08] <Joe_B> It's Thursday, 09:30 Pacific (from his G+ page)
[01:18] <lenz> Is everybody going crazy here now? :)
[01:20] <mhall119> lenz: we did crazy 10 hours ago
[01:20] <mhall119> or, rather, for nearly the last 10 hours straight
[01:21] <mhall119> Graogg: camera and audio don't work on grouper, but other than that it runs great
[01:22] <lenz> I was hereshortly before release of those videos
[01:22] <lenz> there was noone...
[01:26] <mhall119> lenz: we were crazy on the inside :)
[01:26] <mhall119> also, and I can't officially confirm or deny this, but some of us may have danced around like Justin Beiber fans when we hit our first $1 million
[01:27] <lenz> Yeah I imagine
[01:27] <lenz> Do you think it will succeed?
[01:28] <lenz> Will Mister Shuttleworth just chip in the rest?
[01:28] <lenz> :D
[01:31] <genii> lenz: It seems to be a matter of some speculation on that
[01:33] <wilee-nilee> I heard he was selling those pocket diamonds, by the way about the stupidest thing for him to say with the diamond troubles in Africa, his dual citizenship and the theft of a cultural term ubuntu, just an opinion I do use ubuntu.
[01:38] <lenz> wilee-nilee, havent seen it from that angle yet
[01:39] <lenz> but you're right
[01:39] <lenz> I liked it though, it came out of nowhere
[01:39] <lenz> he really is a good marketer
[01:40] <wilee-nilee> I have no problem with shuttleworth, just a degree in Black Studies, so I have a little different perspective.
[01:41] <wilee-nilee> the world is a complex place
[01:45] <dcope> hi all, is this the correct channel for questions about the campaign?
[01:46] <lenz> wilee-nilee, I'm a little worried the chinese/koreans will try to beat canonical to it and release a similar cheaper phone before the edge ships
[01:47] <lenz> a phone running Ubuntu, that is
[01:48] <wilee-nilee> lenz, Heh, it is open source.
[01:48] <dcope> i am interested in doing the 600 USD perk but i can't find any information for donors on indiegogo's page. has anyone else used them?
[01:48] <wilee-nilee> might be a good thing, the more the merrier
[01:49] <vthompson> Hey ladies and gents, I have some questions about apps in Ubuntu vs apps in Ubuntu for Android on the new Edge (or other dual boot phone). Does Ubuntu for Android load apps that are for Ubuntu? Or are two sets of apps needed? One for the phone (Ubuntu) and one for the convergence platform (Ubuntu for Android)?
[01:50] <dcope> if they dont hit 32m do you get your money back?
[01:51] <dcope> does indiegogo actually debit the money from your account instantly or once the campaign is over?
[01:51] <dcope> how does this work? :(
[01:52] <lenz> dcope, yes you do get your money back, AFAIK they charge you once the goal is reached
[01:52] <dcope> ok
[01:52] <dcope> did anyone else in here pledge?
[01:52] <lenz> Read the website I'm sure they put it there
[01:53] <lenz> I wiash I could spare the 630$
[01:53] <lenz> :(
[01:53] <RAOF> They charge you immediately, and refund if the funding fails.
[01:53] <dcope> lenz: they do not mention
[01:53] <dcope> RAOF: excellent, thank you.
[01:55] <lenz> Ubuntu is really starting to differentiate itself so much from linux in genreal
[01:56] <lenz> It seems to try to be catering to a poweruser / high-end market
[01:58] <vthompson> lenz, they are trying to push convergence. They don't really care too much about the highend market, IMHO
[01:59] <wilee-nilee> who gets the interest if they collect now?
[02:01] <vthompson> wilee-nilee, they can't collect now. That's how these crowd sourcing projects work, they must meet their goal
[02:02] <wilee-nilee> I didn't figure the did.
[02:02] <wilee-nilee> they*
[02:02] <dcope> did they say what kind of cpu this will have?
[02:02] <dcope> other than "fastest multi-core" o_o
[02:03] <lenz> No, they will try to pick the best available CPU shortly before release.... which is the right thing to do...
[02:03] <dcope> yes but what architecture?
[02:03] <Xion_> Hi, i am having an issue with returning to android. When i use the command "./flash-all.sh" it says that i don't have permission to do that. But if i add sudo before it, it says it can't find it. Help please.
[02:03] <vthompson> You think they may try to use what money they'll get to influence the ARM market?
[02:04] <vthompson> Mark straight out said he wouldn't be buying the sedan of CPUs.
[02:07] <popey> lenz: dcope no, your money is debited immediately, you get a refund if we don't hit 32M
[02:07] <popey> vthompson: wilee-nilee ^^
[02:08] <wilee-nilee> I want the interest if all returned, lol
[02:08] <popey> good luck with that
[02:09] <wilee-nilee> gotta have dream
[02:09] <wilee-nilee> ;)
[02:09] <vthompson> wilee-nilee, with rates as they are you'll just have to forgo the 2 dollars
[02:09] <vthompson> wilee-nilee, but given the trajectory for the day I'd say you'll be OK :)
[02:09] <wilee-nilee> lol, 1 month at a million alone is a nice chunk
[02:09] <dcope> i see... thank you popey :)
[02:10] <dcope> this is a very exciting product
[02:11] <vthompson> Can someone answer my question: I have some questions about apps in Ubuntu vs apps in Ubuntu for Android on the new Edge (or other dual boot phone). Does Ubuntu for Android load apps that are for Ubuntu? Or are two sets of apps needed? One for the phone (Ubuntu) and one for the convergence platform (Ubuntu for Android)?
[02:12] <popey> vthompson: ubuntu for android is basically ubuntu desktop running on top of the android stack with a few interesting patches
[02:13] <popey> vthompson: so you have two sets of apps, android ones that run in android, and standard ubuntu ones that run on ubuntu
[02:13] <dcope> popey: is that available now?
[02:13] <popey> ubuntu for android is being used internally, it's not publicly available
[02:13] <dcope> oh, the video demo makes it sound like its available to the public :(
[02:14] <vthompson> popey, So if an app is installed for use on Ubuntu Touch, it will also work in Ubuntu for Android? But is the converse true? Will all my apps in Ubuntu for Android (Libre Office, Thunderbird, etc) work in Ubuntu Touch?
[02:14] <popey> Ah, hang on.
[02:14] <dcope> vthompson: from the video demo, yes
[02:14] <dcope> vthompson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtNhlVn3ETQ#at=25
[02:15] <popey> There's three things you're talking about now.
[02:15] <popey> Ubuntu desktop, Android and Ubuntu Touch
[02:15] <popey> The edge dual boots, between android (+ubuntu for android) and ubuntu touch
[02:15] <vthompson> I'm ignoring Android for the time being
[02:15] <vthompson> Ok, I'm only concerned with those two
[02:15] <popey> so yes, we are converging the touch stuff back into the desktop
[02:16] <vthompson> I see that, and that makes complete sense to me.
[02:16] <vthompson> Is the converse true?
[02:16] <vthompson> (for any small value of true)
[02:19] <vthompson> Also, I take it that it's shared storage. How would Touch know to ignore desktop apps (if that's what will happen). Is that done through click packages?
[02:20] <dcope> how often are new ubuntu touch builds released?
[02:20] <dcope> also is it easy to upgrade on a n4?
[02:20] <vthompson> dcope, daily
[02:20] <dcope> wow
[02:20] <popey> for a small value of true, yes
[02:20] <popey> subject to apps working on mir in 14.04
[02:20] <vthompson> dcope, it's a well oiled machine that is making sure the various things that change often are tested early and often
[02:21] <dcope> vthompson: is it stable? i'd love to put it on my nexus 4 that i use for my main phone
[02:21] <vthompson> popey, I'm very excited. I was (honestly) pretty sad that convergence was being tackled before a stable mobile platform... but with the demand that exists you guys must know more than me :)
[02:22] <ajmitch_> popey: so there's nothing yet for running android apps under the ubuntu touch UI, but it'll require dual-booting?
[02:22] <vthompson> dcope, for the Nexus 4 you probably won't have issues and there are probably 10 people in this room right now running it on the same device...
[02:22] <dcope> vthompson: awesome, is it easy to upgrade to a new build or do you have to flash and lose all data?
[02:23] <dcope> dont see any mentions about upgrading on the wiki
[02:23] <vthompson> dcope, it apparently is as of the last few days... but I don't know much about it...
[02:24] <popey> ajmitch_: we don't currently plan to enabling running android apps under ubuntu touch
[02:24] <popey> dcope: you can apt-get to update ubuntu bits
[02:24] <popey> and when you flash, you get to keep your /home on the device
[02:25] <dcope> awesome
[02:25] <dcope> ill install it now :D
[02:25] <vthompson> popey, ajmitch_ first one to monetize a dalvik VM in Ubuntu might profit heavily :)
[02:25] <vthompson> sell the app for a quarter
[02:26] <ajmitch_> or they'd encourage people to step up & get it working for free
[02:26] <vthompson> ajmitch_, major apps certainly will.
[02:27]  * ajmitch_ hasn't installed the ubuntu touch image on his nexus 4 due to wanting to keep android usable :)
[02:28] <vthompson> ajmitch_, xda could probably help you dual boot both OSes. I'm sure the Nexus 4 community is huge and helpful
[02:30] <vthompson> Oooooo, over/under on getting to 3 million in 12 hours?
[02:31] <dcope> heh, followed install wiki
[02:31] <dcope> cant even find the packages even after updating sources
[02:31] <dcope> well, that was a complete failure -_-
[02:31] <vthompson> dcope, what version of Ubuntu are you running?
[02:33] <popey> dcope: did you enable networking?
[02:34] <dcope> just rebooted, it's in a vm... trying again
[02:34] <popey> and can you be more specific, maybe pastebin
[02:34] <dcope> sure, if it persists ill paste the full output
[02:37] <vthompson> popey, I hate to poke you on this, BUT you were the last to update the wiki... when will the porting guide be updated for the new flip images?
[02:37] <popey> I honestly don't know. I am out at OSCON.
[02:38] <popey> I would poke rsalveti sergiusens and dholbach when they are awake
[02:38] <vthompson> popey, eh, this my reluctance.
[02:38] <rsalveti> it'll be this week for sure
[02:38] <rsalveti> hopefully our images will be using the updated git repos in phablet.ubuntu.com by default from tomorrow on
[02:38] <popey> there you go
[02:38] <rsalveti> I'm also finishing a port for galaxy s2 lite
[02:38] <vthompson> rsalveti, awesome! I've been waiting too patiently.
[02:38] <popey> thank you rsalveti
[02:39] <rsalveti> and will do one for galaxy s as well, so I can see what might be the issues there
[02:39] <rsalveti> vthompson: yeah, it took a bit of more time than we wanted because we spent last week working in the test infra side
[02:39] <vthompson> rsalveti, so preemptive question. Will I need to build (most) all of CM still?
[02:39] <rsalveti> so we can validate the daily images before they can be consumed by phablet-tools
[02:39] <rsalveti> for proper dog fooding
[02:40] <rsalveti> still, but we're reducing it as we go
[02:40] <vthompson> understood, I didn't think it'd be easy to switch everything over
[02:40] <rsalveti> once we merge mir, we'll remove the need for surface flinger
[02:40] <rsalveti> and once we integrate our new media decode implementation, we'll be able to remove the media service from android
[02:40] <vthompson> rsalveti, mir isn't until 14.04 though right?
[02:40] <rsalveti> 14.04 is the goal for the desktop
[02:40] <rsalveti> for touch we'll be using mir for 13.10 already
[02:41] <vthompson> k
[02:41] <rsalveti> we even got an image with it already, but still heavily wip
[02:41] <Graogg> Thanks mhall119, and when you say the audio doesn't work, does that include the mic pickup?
[02:42] <vthompson> rsalveti, I guess my main question is that while porting I had troubles with compiling the radios and other things in CM, will I be able to skip that with the new process?
[02:42] <rsalveti> well, it all depends, hopefully it'll get easier over time
[02:42] <vthompson> hm
[02:43] <vthompson> rsalveti, is there a primer (non porting related) on how the new flip images work?
[02:44] <Graogg> Also, is working on the audio problems of grouper something I could try to track down?  If you could send me what details, or where to look for more info, that would be helpful.
[02:45] <mhall119> Graogg: as far as I can tell, yes
[02:45] <mhall119> Graogg: I'm not sure what exactly the problem is, I think somebody told me it was missing some configuration (possibly for PulseAudio), but I'm not sure
[02:45] <mhall119> Graogg: rsalveti might be able to tell you more
[02:46] <vthompson> rsalveti, the doctor is on call, I suppose. You can forget my inquiry--I'll wait for the guide
[02:47] <rsalveti> vthompson: you'll boot in ubuntu directly, but there a lot of more details in there
[02:47] <rsalveti> yeah, we'll be updating it tomorrow (at least I hope to spend most of the day doing that) :-)
[02:47] <rsalveti> Graogg: seems the default mixer settings there is not enabled by default
[02:47] <Graogg> Ok, if its just a low priority issue that hasn't been looked at hard, I would be willing to help.
[02:47] <vthompson> rsalveti, \o/ your time is appreciated!!!
[02:48] <rsalveti> I believe if you open alsamixer, and enable Int Spk it should work
[02:49] <rsalveti> we just need to look in more details on how to get that enabled by default
[02:49] <rsalveti> but I still need to debug why video decoding is not working in there
[02:49] <rsalveti> I got a nexus 7 as well, so now I can debug those issues (hopefully later this week)
[02:50] <rsalveti> camera with latest image is almost working
[02:50] <rsalveti> you can see the image, but you can't yet take pictures (it crashes for some unknown reason)
[02:50] <Graogg> Awsome, is the current public image stable, or should I wait for an update before playing around with it?
[02:53] <rsalveti> well, it's quite usable, but there are a few things missing for nexus 7 still
[02:53] <rsalveti> hopefully that will get fixed later this week
[02:54] <Graogg> Thanks.
[03:02] <vthompson> Just < $30,000 from getting $3 Million in 12 hours. >300 devices at $600 to go... I feel like I'm watching QVC... sigh
[03:02] <vthompson> <300 devices at $600...
[03:03] <RobbyF> when is the 12hr mark?
[03:03] <vthompson> RobbyF, 3 minutes ago from my clock...
[03:04] <RobbyF> well hopfully there are a few large paychecks for everyone
[03:04] <RobbyF> tax refunds or something.
[03:04] <rsalveti> aaaaaaand we're over 3m
[03:05] <vthompson> rsalveti, \o/
[03:06] <vthompson> At this pace they'll be the most funded crowed sourced project in just over 24 more hours
[03:06] <RobbyF> should get 120,000 in the next few hours. (5000limit)
[03:07] <vthompson> RobbyF, only 203 left
[03:08] <vthompson> Those 203 will be gone in 2 hours
[03:08] <RobbyF> yup
[03:08] <RobbyF> I hope the next Nexus device gets supported.
[03:09] <RobbyF> phone and tablet that is.
[03:09] <vthompson> Probably 1 hour.... I have no need, but my trigger finger is getting itchy
[03:10] <vthompson> RobbyF, when's the next Nexus to be released?
[03:10] <RobbyF> I think the next is a 7" tablet and the end of this month.
[03:10] <RobbyF> rumour based of course.
[03:12] <vthompson> I say we all (by we, I mean me) take a pull of what's in front of us when all 5000 sell out... in an act of morning.
[03:14] <RobbyF> lol
[03:16] <RobbyF> 104 remain.
[03:16] <dcope>  ok so i installed it
[03:17] <dcope> saw the shell on my phone
[03:17] <dcope> clicked power button to reboot device and now it's stuck on the Google splash screen
[03:17] <RobbyF> it should have rebooted on it's own.
[03:17] <dcope> >.<
[03:17] <dcope> should i reflash?
[03:17] <RobbyF> I would.
[03:17] <RobbyF> it won't need to download the files this time so will take like 4 min.
[03:18] <RobbyF> vthompson, 85
[03:18] <dcope> RobbyF: alright i can't get it past the google screen so flashing isn't working
[03:19] <RobbyF> can you do 'adb devices'
[03:19] <dcope> yeah, i see it there
[03:19] <RobbyF> might have to do it the manual way
[03:20] <RobbyF> did it install the CWM recover?
[03:20] <vthompson> RobbyF, I don't get the acceleration of how much they are selling. This is just odd.
[03:20] <RobbyF> the last few are a race/temptation limits
[03:21] <htsemod> dcope: I am currently experiencing the same issue
[03:21] <RobbyF> which devices?
[03:21] <vthompson> RobbyF, Yea and I'm right there... with a CDMA carrier and still tempted
[03:21] <dcope> nexus 4
[03:22] <RobbyF> dcope, reflash should work, I was using it on my nexus 4 last week
[03:22] <RobbyF> using it on my galaxy nexus right now
[03:22] <dcope> alright
[03:22] <dcope> i just did adb push... taking forever
[03:22] <dcope> seems like 44 MB should move faster over usb 2.0.....
[03:23] <RobbyF> it shouldn't be to long to push it.
[03:24] <RobbyF> dcope, 830 KB/s (31632008 bytes in 6.394s)
[03:24] <dcope> mine took 41s for whatever reason
[03:24] <dcope> o_O
[03:25] <dcope> anyways, about to push teh second zip
[03:25] <RobbyF> i'll race ya lol.
[03:25] <dcope> you'll win :PO
[03:25] <dcope> :P
[03:26] <vthompson> RobbyF, 11 left.
[03:26] <RobbyF> 4648 KB/s (367177224 bytes in 77.141s)
[03:26] <RobbyF> that was from earlier
[03:26] <RobbyF> 76 seconds this time.
[03:28] <RobbyF> I'm pretty sure there exepectations were 3-4m the first day how ever.
[03:28] <RobbyF> 5k * $600 = 3M
[03:30] <RobbyF> umm vthompson
[03:30] <RobbyF> 5025 / 5000
[03:30] <RobbyF> but it shows sold out now. lol
[03:33] <rsalveti> 5030!
[03:33] <genii> Yup
[03:33] <genii> And it keeps climbing
[03:34] <RobbyF> It's all bill gates
[03:34] <genii> I guess the next announcement there should be something like: 5000 more at $600
[03:37] <dcope> ok both zips pushed
[03:37] <dcope> just rebooted
[03:37] <dcope> now the loading bar is stuck at about 75%
[03:37] <dcope> and it just rebooted
[03:37] <dcope> wtf
[03:37] <RobbyF> odd.
[03:38] <dcope> omg it worked
[03:38] <dcope> !!!!
[03:39] <rsalveti> \o/
[03:39] <dcope> thank you RobbyF et al!
[03:39] <RobbyF> have fun.
[03:41] <RobbyF> bed time for me now, off to the tablet for google + updates
[03:47] <dcope> how can i change the clock?
[03:58] <dcope> is there no way to change the ubu touch system clock?
[04:02] <JPCalmona> Hello, I have a Karbonn A9+ in India or Cherry Mobile Flare S100 in the Philippines
[04:02] <JPCalmona> I am wondering if you have an UBUNTU OS for Mobile
[04:02] <JPCalmona> for this kind of phone
[04:03] <JPCalmona> Do you have UBUNTU OS for phones that do not require specific model to install?
[04:05] <JPCalmona> Somebody that could help me with this Karbonn A9+ / Cherry Mobile Flare S100 for testing for Ubuntu Mobile
[04:05] <JPCalmona> I am more than happy to help you all for testing for this mobile device
[04:07] <htsemod> guys, I have to use a mouse with my nexus 7 because the screen is broken, is there a way to make the mouse pointer visible?
[04:08] <JPCalmona> go to developer options for that
[04:08] <JPCalmona> under settings
[04:14] <htsemod> I was looking for that but I can't find developer options in the settings
[04:25] <htsemod> just to be clear I am talking about ubuntu, not android.
[04:53] <eMinja> Could anyone help me at the moment>
[04:53] <eMinja> ?
[05:11] <rigved> hi everyone
[05:13] <rigved> i am currently using the image from "http://system-image.ubuntu.com/" on my nexus. do i need to use adb to apply upgrades or can i run the command: "system-image-cli" from the terminal app on the nexus 7?
[05:13] <rigved> for clarification, this is a nexus 7
[06:06] <mezenok> hello everybody!
[06:06] <mezenok> anybody here online?
[06:07] <mezenok> I need some hepl t be envolved into the development procees of ubuntu-touch...
[06:07] <mezenok> I need some hepl to be envolved into the development procees of ubuntu-touch...
[06:09] <bolad> Hi
[06:10] <bolad> Is it possble to run ubuntu phone on the HTC 8X
[06:10] <mezenok> Hi
[06:10] <mezenok> you can try to see your phone in the list of supportedd devices...
[06:11] <mezenok> here is the link - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[06:11] <mezenok> or you can try to port it to your device
[06:15] <RAOF> bolad: No, it's not possible to boot anything but Windows Phone on the 8X
[06:18] <viraj> hey guys.. i am new to ubuntu core apps
[06:18] <viraj> and playing around with clock app
[06:18] <mezenok> RAOF: It is because ubuntu-touch is using some proprietary android binaries to run and build?
[06:18] <bolad> what a dissapointment , the Phone specs are awesome but the OS is crap
[06:18] <viraj> is there a way to delete presets in Timer app?
[06:19] <mezenok> bolad: because it is under development
[06:19] <RAOF> mezenok: No, it's because the 8X is a Windows Phone with a locked bootloader and on linux kernel that runs on it.
[06:19] <mezenok> i think we can make conclusions only when it will be ubuntu-phone will be ready.
[06:20] <mezenok> ROAF: thx a lot for explanation :)
[06:20] <lauri> Hi guys
[06:20] <lauri> Nice job @ indiegogo :)
[06:20] <lauri> What device would you guys suggest for Ubuntu Touch meanwhile?
[06:36] <endi> installed :)
[06:36] <RAOF> lauri: The various Nexi work well - Nexus 7, Nexus 10, Nexus 4.
[06:37] <endi> I just finished installing on Nexus 4
[06:37] <endi> not getting any cell signal :-\
[06:38] <endi> wifi is running, thought I couldn't find an option to connect to hidden network
[06:45] <lauri> RAOF: What about Galaxy Nexus?
[06:45] <RAOF> That's one of the core supported phones I believe.
[06:46] <endi> alright what I gather from G+ posts etc is that there is no 3G or 4G connectivity at this point?
[06:46] <endi> and if you can hack it together you lose simultaneous wifi?
[06:48] <RAOF> I'm not sure; I've been doing it on a N7, which doesn't have a mobile radio.
[06:49] <endi> hmm alright
[06:50] <endi> is "Ubuntu for Android" available? the overlaid or parallel operation
[06:51] <endi> or is the Touch preview all we've got at this point in time?
[06:55] <_5m0k3> endi: U4A is not available, yet
[06:56] <endi> 5m0k3; thanks :)
[06:57] <endi> well with no Mobile Data connection or ability to make a phone call I guess I'll be flashing 4.2.2 back lol
[06:58] <endi> definitely glad to know the process of flashing it successfully tho :) can't wait to try a functional version
[06:58] <icoop> hi! How can I delete online accounts that were created with uoa-create?
[06:59] <stgraber> barry: cool!
[06:59] <icoop> there is an option in system-settings but it doesn't seem to work yet.
[07:14] <ForbiddenX_> Hey all
[07:14] <rickspencer3> hi ForbiddenX_
[07:15] <ForbiddenX_> I have a quick question: I've tried to install ubuntu-touch on my Nexus 4, but it gets stuck on the Google logo when booting for the first time :(
[07:18] <ForbiddenX_> I also see "E:Can't mount /cache/recovery/log"
[07:18] <ForbiddenX_> Is this something I should be worried about?
[07:33] <ForbiddenX_> Do I need to be using Quantal ? Or can I use saucy
[07:33] <gema> ForbiddenX_: did you follow any instructions?
[07:34] <ForbiddenX_> Yes I was trying to follow: http://nali.org/how-to-flash-install-ubuntu-touch-on-galaxy-nexus/
[07:34] <ForbiddenX_> I am trying to use OSX to do it as I don't have my Linux partition up and running yet
[07:36] <gema> ForbiddenX_: the official images by now are saucy and we have some tools that nicely do the installation for you
[07:36] <ForbiddenX_> Would you happen to have a link to those tools?
[07:36] <ForbiddenX_> :)
[07:37] <gema> ForbiddenX_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[07:37] <gema> ForbiddenX_: but these install from linux
[07:37] <gema> as far as I know
[07:37] <gema> haven't tried from MacOS
[07:37] <gema> ForbiddenX_: this wiki shows the tested path, I'd give it a try
[07:38] <ForbiddenX_> Ahh yea I saw those as well. I don't have access to those commands in OSX. I will have Ubuntu ready soon and I will give it a try!
[07:38] <ForbiddenX_> Thanks a bunch :)
[07:38] <ForbiddenX_> Much appreciated
[07:38] <gema> ForbiddenX_: you may want to go back to android before attempting another install
[07:38] <gema> there are also instructions there
[07:38] <gema> ForbiddenX_: I have no idea what status your phone is in
[07:38] <ForbiddenX_> My phone just sits on the "GOOGLE" screen
[07:38] <ForbiddenX_> and then turns off
[07:40] <gema> ForbiddenX_: there are plenty of things on that wiki that you could try, if your phone is visible via adb or you can boot it into recovery mode you should be fine
[07:40] <gema> ForbiddenX_: but follow the official instructions, you'll be safer
[07:40] <ForbiddenX_> Yes fortunately I can access my phone through adb
[07:41] <gema> ForbiddenX_: cool, then attempt the next install from your linux
[07:42] <gema> ForbiddenX_: gotta go now, there's more people around here later in the day
[07:42] <ForbiddenX_> Yea I will definetly try that!
[07:42] <ForbiddenX_> Ok take care, thank you for your help
[07:42] <gema> ForbiddenX_: no problem
[08:23] <tsdgeos> ricmm: you there?
[08:24] <eylith> Hi guys
[08:36] <OttomanTR> hi guys, congratulations for the Ubuntu Edge project but I have some questions
[08:43] <deathcrawler> current ubuntu touch images uses mir as display server?
[08:44] <rickspencer3> deathcrawler, I don't think that's quite ready yet
[08:46] <deathcrawler> So images are using Surfaceflinger yet
[08:46] <ogra_> asac, so do you thinnk all yellow is good enough to switch 20130722 to /current (so we finally get a new image out (it is 6 days already))
[08:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Sweet Child O' Mine Day! :-D
[08:52] <asac> ogra_: i will check on that in just a bit
[08:52] <asac> :)
[08:53] <ogra_> k
[08:53] <asac> ogra_: did all testsuites get strictly better on all archs :)?
[08:53] <ogra_> tell me if i can mark it once you know :)
[08:53] <asac> have you checked?
[08:53] <ogra_> well, all subarches are above 80%
[08:54] <ogra_> there is surely room for improvement, but i  would call it good enough as long as we dont regress anymore
[08:55] <mhr3> seb128, ping?
[08:56] <seb128> mhr3, hey
[08:56] <mhr3> seb128, hey, do you know where we can get the phone model string from?
[08:56] <seb128> mhr3, we being?
[08:56] <mhr3> seb128, we need to send it to the smart scopes server
[08:56] <mhr3> so that operators can have some control over what scopes get recommended
[08:56] <seb128> mhr3, what language do you use?
[08:57] <xnox> ogra_: hm. does phone-app-autopilot need a simcard? grouper and manta don't have one =)
[08:57] <mhr3> seb128, c/vala
[08:58] <ogra_> xnox, yeah, could be
[08:59] <seb128> mhr3, so, qtsystem reads /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_name atm, but that's not available on the devices, for the about info we fallback to read ro.product.model from libhybris
[08:59] <seb128> mhr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5903415/
[09:00] <mhr3> seb128, great, thx
[09:00] <seb128> mhr3, ideally we would fix our kernel to have the info available somewhere in /sys ... but that's not the case atm afaik
[09:00] <seb128> mhr3, yw
[09:01] <mhr3> seb128, i hope hybris is available on the desktop as well?
[09:02] <seb128> mhr3, hum, it is, but not in the default installation
[09:02] <mhr3> hm, so we need to dlopen it?
[09:03] <seb128> mhr3, do you need that info today?
[09:03] <mhr3> seb128, tomorrow is fine
[09:03] <mhr3> :)
[09:04] <seb128> mhr3, lol
[09:04] <seb128> mhr3, ok, fallback plan for you
[09:04] <seb128> $ getprop ro.product.model
[09:04] <seb128> Nexus 7
[09:05] <seb128> mhr3, check if the binary is there, if it is uses it, otherwise read /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_name
[09:05] <seb128> mhr3, on ubuntu touch you have getprop that's going to do the right thing, and on desktop the dmi info is available
[09:05] <seb128> mhr3, easier to call the command than to dlopen the lib
[09:06] <mhr3> but dlopen is cheaper :)
[09:06] <seb128> your call
[09:06] <mhr3> considering that the lib initializes properly :)
[09:06] <seb128> ideally that's going to be away and replaced by "read the info from /sys"
[09:06] <seb128> to go away*
[09:06] <seb128> but meanwhile...
[09:06] <mhr3> seb128, do we have something more fine-grained for the model?
[09:06] <seb128> either way you have the infos, you pick whatever suits you best ;-)
[09:07] <seb128> mhr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5903426/
[09:07] <mhr3> seb128, as in i can imagine that "xx" sold in china would want to have different settings than "xx" sold in europe
[09:07] <ogra_> hmm, there should be info in sys even on the phones (surely not in the BIOS dmi indeed since there is no BIOS) but on android devices you should be able to read it from the adb/usb settings  in /sys
[09:08] <seb128> ogra_, well, we read it through libhybris atm
[09:08] <seb128> ogra_, but I'm happy to change that if you have a better way
[09:08] <ogra_> cat /sys/class/android_usb/android0/iProduct
[09:09] <mhr3> seb128, is there more stuff in ro.build?
[09:09] <ogra_> thats the value the device also reports via adb when connected
[09:09] <seb128> mhr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5903431/
[09:09] <ogra_> though getprop is probably preferred
[09:09] <seb128> ogra_, that's not going to exist on the desktop...
[09:09] <ogra_> seb128, right
[09:09] <seb128> ogra_, would be nice to have a way that works on both
[09:09] <ogra_> but would avoid getprop
[09:10] <seb128> ogra_, well atm we use libhybris (the C api)
[09:10] <ogra_> well, then stop using BIOS data on PCs :)
[09:10] <seb128> ogra_, what should we use on the pc?
[09:10] <seb128> I'm not sure where to get the info if it's not in the dmi infos
[09:10] <ogra_> heh, no idea if there is another way that is as reliable as the bios
[09:10] <seb128> but I'm happy to change
[09:10] <mhr3> seb128, i like /sys/class/android_usb/android0/idProduct
[09:11] <mhr3> think that would provide the required granularity
[09:11] <ogra_> mhr3, it is iProduct ... no "d" in it :)
[09:11] <ogra_> else yoou get a USB ID
[09:11] <mhr3> ogra_, ah, i thought it's some identifier of the device :)
[09:12] <mhr3> nvm then
[09:12] <ogra_> it is the textual identifier it reports when connected via adb
[09:12] <seb128> mhr3, I don't know if there is a difference between the models put on different markets and what id tells them appart
[09:12] <ogra_> while idProduct is the USB hex data
[09:13] <seb128> mhr3, https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/drivers
[09:13] <nik90|Office> mehow: I saw your and ckpringle in the ubuntu edge video :). I was even able to get a glimpse of the alarm design :D
[09:13] <ckpringle> nik90|Office: YEAAAAAH
[09:13] <seb128> mhr3, [ro.build.id]: [JOP40D] might be what you want
[09:13] <seb128> mhr3, at least on the nexus serie that seems to granularity
[09:13] <nik90|Office> ckpringle: :)))) Leading the meeting in both videos :P
[09:14] <mhr3> seb128, hmm, i was disregarding it, but you might actually be right
[09:14] <ckpringle> nik90|Office: ;-)
[09:14] <ogra_> seb128, thats available on all android builds
[09:14] <mhr3> seb128, ok build.id it is then
[09:14] <mehow> nik90: HA! Calum is already moving to Hollywood ;)
[09:15] <seb128> mhr3, that doesn't seem to fit what you need though, that's going to give you granularity on the model (wifi, or 3g, or...), not geographical infos
[09:15] <nik90|Office> mehow: I know right :D
[09:16] <mhr3> seb128, i think build id could be region-specific as well
[09:16] <seb128> it could
[09:16] <mhr3> seb128, bottom line, it seems like the most fine-grained id without going to the serial itself
[09:16] <seb128> right
[09:17] <seb128> I'm just not sure the device info is what you want
[09:17] <seb128> you might rather want infos on the carrier
[09:17] <seb128> or the timezone in use
[09:18] <mhr3> yea, we might add operator as well, but this is needed eitherway
[09:46] <Bas> Hello, Is there a way to recover a Nexus 4 with only the bootloader working?  Is there a way out of this?
[09:50] <gema> Bas: I'd go for manual installation from this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[09:51] <tsdgeos> Bas: does "adb reboot recovery" do something?
[09:51] <tsdgeos> also you can try going into recovery manually by doing the 3 button press
[09:52] <Tino> Bas: fastboot can recognize bootloader, yes?
[09:52] <Tino> ("fastboot devices" ?)
[09:52] <ogra_> (needs sudo ... )
[09:52] <Tino> (righ)
[09:53] <Tino> if fastboot recognize bootloader, you can try downloading recovery image for mako here: http://download2.clockworkmod.com/recoveries/recovery-clockwork-<IP_ADDRESS>-mako.img
[09:54] <Tino> and then do: "fastboot flash recovery recovery-clockwork-<IP_ADDRESS>-mako.img"
[09:55] <ogra_> well, if you want to eventually use ubuntu touch, why not use the ubuntu touch recovery image ?
[09:55] <mhr3> seb128, btw there's no gsettings binary on the phone, desired?
[09:56] <seb128> mhr3, no, that seems buggy, libglib2.0-bin should be installed, it has the glib-compile-schemas
[09:56] <seb128> mhr3, I'm going to add a depends somewhere so it gets in
[09:57] <ogra_> xnox, OH ! whee !!! https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/android/0.20130722-0ubuntu8
[09:57] <mhr3> seb128, cool
[09:57]  * ogra_ dances
[09:57] <ogra_> hmm, building since 7h ?
[09:57] <ogra_> are the buildds *that* slow today ?
[09:58] <ogra_> oh, no, started only 19min ago ... seems it sat in the queue for that long
[09:58] <xnox> ogra_: yeah, it was build-dep wait for a long time =)
[09:58]  * ogra_ is impressed that infnity managed the copyright review that fast
[09:59] <ogra_> i wouldnt have expected it before end of the week :)
[10:00] <AskUbuntu> Will Ubuntu Edge be available to everyone after the indiegogo campaign? | http://askubuntu.com/q/323342
[10:02]  * ogra_ thinks the indiegogo site should have made it more clear that you can only get the devices through the campaign (or from ebay if someone wants to sell his edge later) ....
[10:03] <davmor2> morning all
[10:04] <davmor2> ogra_: how are the images today?
[10:04] <ogra_> davmor2, no idea, just started building :)
[10:04] <ogra_> yesterdays dashboard entries look pretty good though
[10:07] <kalikiana> ogra_, I've seen almost the whole of information it contains being asked here and there… people are too excited to actually read
[10:08] <ogra_> haha, yeah
[10:12] <Bas> Thank you tsdgeos and Tino, going to try this. But I see the battery died. And can't get my phone on again, so I have to pull the battery plug I think. But have no fitting tool for the screws. Have to go out to get me something. bbl Sorry...
[10:15] <cjwatson> ogra_: no.  android was dep-wait on android-src-vendor, which I NEWed this number
[10:15] <cjwatson> er
[10:15] <cjwatson> this morning (where did that come from?)
[10:16] <ogra_> heh
[10:17] <cjwatson> the builders are awesome right now.
[10:22] <ogra_> wow, already done
[10:54] <gema> ogra_: finally someone notices about the results being good :D
[10:54] <gema> ogra_: we are hoping they'll be stable from now on
[10:54] <ogra_> gema, :)
[10:54] <ogra_> well done !
[10:55] <gema> ogra_: omer discovered that the lock screen was getting on the way of our tests
[10:55] <ogra_> yeah
[10:55] <gema> ogra_: and we added an extra step at the beginning
[10:55] <ogra_> right, i watched that last night
[10:55] <gema> ogra_: cool
[10:55]  * ogra_ just waits for asac's "go" to actually publish the 22 image
[10:56] <gema> ogra_: we haven't published it yet?
[10:56] <ogra_> nope, thats manual
[10:56] <gema> asac: we are waiting for you man!
[10:56] <ogra_> and i wont do it wihout mgmt nodding it off
[10:56] <gema> ogra_: ack
[10:57] <ogra_> he knows :)
[10:57] <gema> ogra_: I know, it's just good to be at the pushing end for a change :)
[10:57] <ogra_> haha
[10:58] <ogra_> dont say that to loud, else asac waits even longer just to make you enjoy the feeling longer ;)
[10:58] <gema> ogra_: trying to sort out the memory tests now
[10:58] <gema> ogra_: and the mir tests
[10:58] <gema> ogra_: not rosy picture yet
[10:58] <ogra_> hmm
[10:59] <ogra_> mir surely has to be fixed before we can even switch to it
[10:59] <gema> ogra_: I know, working on that
[10:59] <gema> ogra_: on the test automation
[10:59]  * ogra_ isnt to concerned about memory tests
[10:59] <ogra_> (yet)
[10:59] <gema> ogra_: I know, but the mir test folks are in the US and NZ
[11:00] <gema> ogra_: so jcollado is looking at the memory stuff
[11:00] <ogra_> we are shuffling the complete architecture a few times still before we are done ... that wwill definitely change memeory consumption values a few times
[11:00] <gema> ogra_: one problem at a time
[11:00] <gema> ogra_: maybe you should talk to mgmt about that
[11:00] <ogra_> they know
[11:01] <gema> ogra_: ok, then they want to track the changes, nothing wrong with that
[11:01] <ogra_> image based updates, click packages, readonly rootfs are next
[11:01] <gema> yep
[11:01] <ogra_> and after that repartitioning and dropping of the loop image setup on all but grouper
[11:01] <gema> ogra_: I am behind on click packages, what is that and where do I read about them?
[11:02] <ogra_> after that our foundation should not change anymore ... but i expect still some high impact until end of august until we have all this
[11:02] <gema> ogra_: so what testing would make your life easier besides the next bunch of autopilot to be added to smoke
[11:02] <ogra_> on the readonly images apt will be disabled, click packages are the way to install apps in a secure user accessible space
[11:03] <ogra_> we already have them on the images today btw ... duplicating the debs for some apps ...
[11:03] <ogra_> once the last bits of the implementation are done we'll drop their deps
[11:03] <ogra_> s/deps/debs
[11:04] <gema> ogra_: ok, so we'll need to support click updates in utah/autopilot setups
[11:05] <ogra_> not sure about updates, but the app tests surely need to make use of the installed click packages instead of the debs ... the switch should be largely transparent for users, not sure if it is for tests though
[11:05] <ogra_> and you likely want to change utah to actually use the developer mode (even though thats not actually real life testing, you need system debs and want to install them, that wont work with the readonly rootfs)
[11:09] <ogra_> gema, https://www.stgraber.org/2013/07/20/introducing-the-ubuntu-touch-image-based-upgrader/ ... you might want to give that to someone of your team to start checking what changes are needed in utah i guess
[11:09] <gema> ogra_: ack
[11:09] <ogra_> so you are prepared for the big disaster :)
[11:10] <gema> ogra_: there hasn't been a day without a disaster in the past 2 months, bring it on!
[11:10] <ogra_> haha
[11:11] <cjwatson> lool: Did we decide what package to put the desktop hook in?  Maybe I should just shove it in click itself for now
[11:13] <om26er> ogra_, so what happens to the autopilot suites in this case? how would we be able to install those with click packages? given systems directory are going to be read only
[11:14] <asac> ogra_: sent
[11:15] <om26er> our packages will install to a different local +rw location and autopilot will need to be added the ability to look there for test suites as well ?
[11:15] <ogra_> om26er, thats what i mean, you want developer mode which enables rw root and apt
[11:16] <ogra_> i'm not sure if anyone through about actually making click based autopilot packages or some such
[11:16] <asac> ogra_: now I hope that 22 image is really working nicely on the phone itself :)
[11:16] <ogra_> (we probably should)
[11:17] <ogra_> asac, why wouldnt it ? all images of the last week were fine on the phone (modulo known bugs indeed)
[11:17] <asac> gema: ^
[11:17] <asac> ogra_: they were not fine... they were red :)
[11:17] <asac> they might have been fine for the human stakeholder
[11:18] <asac> for our infrastructure customer they were just horrible
[11:18] <ogra_> asac, mine was violet ... with a slight touch into orange
[11:18] <ogra_> :P
[11:18] <asac> lol
[11:18] <asac> make it green when we hit green and post a screenwhot :)
[11:18] <ogra_> heh
[11:18] <asac> maybe land a good screenshot feature while doing that
[11:18] <asac> ;)
[11:19] <asac> like pressing power and volume down
[11:19] <ogra_> we need live wallpapers and self running tests preinstalled ;)
[11:19] <asac> or whatewver it is for android
[11:19] <tvoss_> ogra_, o/
[11:19] <ogra_> on first boot do a selftest, remove the tests and reboot .... paint the background in the resulting color
[11:19] <ogra_> ;)
[11:19] <asac> i really think live wallpaper are old school
[11:20] <asac> we want live content
[11:20] <asac> like harry potter newspaper :)
[11:20] <ogra_> :)
[11:21] <asac> gema: so what are you doing on the memory tests?
[11:22] <ogra_> ogra@chromebook:~/branches/utah$ get-touch-img-ver --current
[11:22] <ogra_> 20130722
[11:22] <ogra_> FYI ....
[11:22] <gema> asac: making sure they are running smooth now that we know autopilot tests are passing
[11:22] <gema> asac: and trying to get us some data to look at next week
[11:23] <asac> gema: do you have a reference on what is really planned to do?
[11:23] <asac> e.g. what goal are you working against etc.
[11:23] <asac> like maybe a dashboard mock?
[11:23] <gema> asac: yes, we are still working towards tvoss_' requirements , stated in the doc
[11:23] <asac> ok let me try to find that :-P
[11:23] <gema> asac: the dashboard is almost ready, that's not a blocker
[11:24] <gema> asac: I will find it for you
[11:24] <gema> oh, there you are
[11:24] <asac> yeah i found it i think
[11:24] <gema> asac: we are getting good at finding docs
[11:24] <asac> so thats it? anything else?
[11:24] <gema> that's it
[11:24] <asac> dont say that
[11:25] <gema> asac: the view is ready waiting for data: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/memory/memevent/
[11:25] <gema> the rudimentary view that tvoss_ asked for
[11:25] <asac> gema: so are we already running each test multiple times in a row with reboot etc. to get good deviation etc.?
[11:26] <asac> gema: thats empty :)
[11:26] <gema> asac: we were asked not to do that anymore because the memory allocation is supposed to be reliable
[11:26] <gema> tvoss_ and slangasek asked for us to run only once
[11:26] <cjwatson> sbeattie: Any progress on the apparmor hook?
[11:26] <asac> gema: well, lets run it multiple times to QA that approach :)
[11:26] <tvoss_> asac, the idea there is that we save time by only checking our deviation on a cadence
[11:27] <asac> yeah
[11:27] <asac> i agree we can do it sample based
[11:27] <gema> asac: I rather not change that again unless slangasek and tvoss_ agree
[11:27] <asac> not daily
[11:27] <tvoss_> asac, our proposal was weekly
[11:27] <asac> but it should be unpredictable QA control. someone taking, running, complaining that we have lied :)
[11:27] <asac> i am not sure; i think it sould just happen at random intervals
[11:27] <asac> but at least pretty soon once
[11:27] <tvoss_> asac, fine with me, too
[11:28] <asac> gema: so thats good... do you have an autopilot test that starts all apps?
[11:28] <asac> step by step?
[11:28] <asac> until we fall over>?
[11:28] <asac> :)
[11:29] <gema> asac: yes
[11:29] <asac> gema: do you have something that starts and stops each app?
[11:29] <gema> jcollado: do you ahve a link to the mem code?
[11:29] <asac> e.g. not having all apps started in a row?
[11:29] <asac> start camera -> kill
[11:30] <asac> actually start camera -> use randomly -> kill
[11:30] <asac> notes -> use randomly -> kill
[11:30] <gema> asac: I don't think we kill, we agreed with tvoss_  not to if I remember correctly, but jcollado will be able to give you more details on the implementation
[11:30] <asac> gema: but the code could easily be adopted to have one that kills after
[11:30] <asac> and one run that doesnt?
[11:30] <ogra_> xnox, so do you want me to work on livecd-rootfs for including the android package ?
[11:30] <jcollado> gema, asac: https://code.launchpad.net/~javier.collado/ubuntu-test-cases/memory-usage-measurement/
[11:30] <tvoss_> asac, we don't kill from the test to be able to verify our lifecycle policy from the measurement
[11:30] <gema> asac: I'd rather see it pass as is, and then think about variations
[11:30]  * ogra_ is happy to do that
[11:31] <asac> tvoss_: yes, but i think we might have a low hanging fruit to go to isle of man with a "wow" effect :)
[11:31] <tvoss_> asac, wow in terms of?
[11:31] <asac> depending on what is there in autopilot
[11:31] <ogra_> just create a static dashboard page with all green :P
[11:31] <xnox> ogra_: i'd love for you to poke that. As i haven't ever touched livecd-rootfs. But do note, that I am away from keyboard from tomorrow -> sunday.
[11:32] <gema> asac: running tests that do random actions makes it not easy to triage/understand results
[11:32] <gema> ogra_: you think that'll get the wow factor?
[11:32] <ogra_> xnox, i think i'll get along, no worries
[11:32] <asac> gema: well, random == i dont care how we run, you can probably reuse some app test
[11:32] <ogra_> gema, dunno, do you think blue would eb better ?
[11:32] <ogra_> :)
[11:32] <gema> asac: you are talking at too high level for me to understand what you are after
[11:33] <ogra_> *be
[11:33] <gema> asac: or do you want us to add some jobs that cap the available memory with a kernel configuration?
[11:33] <gema> asac: like we discussed
[11:36] <asac> gema: just explained it to tvoss_
[11:36] <asac> so i want to land another maguro with mem=!386m option in lab
[11:36] <asac> and run three jobs on it:
[11:36] <asac> 1. start shell and run test that uses the shell -> indicates that we can run 386m at all
[11:37] <asac> 2. start shell and start each app, use and kill -> confirm that all apps can run in memory together with shell
[11:37] <asac> 3. start all apps and ensure that no app gets OOM killed etc.
[11:37] <asac> this gives us a nice dashboard that can be used from day one to steer engineering
[11:37] <gema> asac: I don't think we can do that in the 3 days we have left,  plust all the other mir stuff that is ongoing
[11:37] <asac> e.g. we see that browser doesnt work well with shell -> bfiller and shell team have to debug and identify how to fix memory issues
[11:38] <asac> gema: :)
[11:38] <gema> asac: you can however pick some of the existing autopilot tests and we could run them capping the memory
[11:38] <gema> asac: that's low hanging fruit
[11:38] <asac> gema: ok, but we could add a maguro with mem=386m ? and run the same job
[11:38] <asac> that you do for tvoss
[11:38] <gema> asac: we could do that, if that job was running at all
[11:38] <asac> it does
[11:39] <ogra_> should only be a few lines of code in the provisioning steps to update the boot.img commandline
[11:39] <gema> jcollado: how close are we to having that running and passing?
[11:39] <asac> i have 386m phone running :)
[11:39] <Eliath> hello
[11:39] <asac> i can use most apps ;.. only browser was getting tough
[11:39] <asac> its snappy and stuff
[11:39] <gema> ogra_: any chance you can provide us with those lines?
[11:39] <asac> so we can give confidence at IoM that we have no "big problem"
[11:39] <gema> asac: sounds good
[11:39] <xnox> ogra_: one thing that i agreed with slangasek is to have livefs-rootfs builder include /usr/share/doc/[android|android-src-vendor]/copyright in the ubuntu rootfs, just with "cp" e.g. unowned dpkg files.
[11:39] <ogra_> gema, let me check, i also have to go back to my TODO list which was stalled for the last week
[11:40] <gema> ogra_: ack
[11:40] <Eliath> how can root and install ubuntu on s2 phone pls? i have done the pc part and the phone is on odin modeas we speak.
[11:40] <ogra_> xnox, uhm, thats tricky
[11:40] <gema> asac: what has more priority, this or the mir tests?
[11:40] <gema> tvoss_: ^
[11:41] <asac> no idea
[11:41] <ogra_> xnox, i had planned to do the android installation after the rootfs tarball was created so copying stuff inside wont work .... if i do it during build (to have the copyright available) that will need very careful cleanup work
[11:41] <asac> i personally don't think MIR can be finished in short run :)
[11:41] <xnox> ogra_: that's ok, I will think about it more, on how to make it easier. Potentially I can shove those files into the .zip and then upon flashing, we can fetch those two inside the ubuntu rootfs. Just like we do with the kernel, for example.
[11:41] <tvoss_> asac, but we really need the numbers for Mir
[11:42] <tvoss_> gema, so chris gagnon isworking on Mir right now, correct?
[11:42] <ogra_> xnox, well, let me do some tests once i have my code, thanks for pointing that out though
[11:42] <xnox> ogra_: zip, being the ones that "android" package makes.
[11:42] <ogra_> xnox, ah, indeed, that would be eaiser for me
[11:42] <xnox> ogra_: that's purely to comply with the 4-clause bsd licenses.
[11:42] <gema> tvoss_: correct but he obviously needs some guidance
[11:42] <ogra_> yeah
[11:43] <gema> tvoss_: i.e. someone to work out problems along with him
[11:43] <jcollado> gema: I feel like it should be possible to have something soon. I have been able to run the mediaplayer app test cases locally (playing a video file), so I'm updating my code to take advantage of the updates in the smoke testing code.
[11:43] <gema> jcollado: ack
[11:43] <xnox> ogra_: how long does the jenkins build take?
[11:43] <xnox> ogra_: compared to android package. faster/slower/about the same?
[11:43] <ogra_> xnox, hmm, thats a quesrion for sergiusens , i never actually checked
[11:43] <gema> jcollado: we will need to add an extra smoke testing job with your test on it and some memory capping at 386M
[11:43] <ogra_> i think not more than 30min
[11:44] <gema> jcollado: you need to coordinate with plars or doanac for that
[11:44] <gema> jcollado: it's all automated
[11:44] <gema> jcollado: the creation of the jobs, I mean
[11:44]  * xnox ponders if jenkins cheats with prebuilts though & ccache.
[11:44] <ogra_> xnox, well, i was guessing
[11:45] <gema> jcollado: do that after your memory job is reporting results
[11:46] <ogra_> rsalveti, do you think we probably should add an option to the adbd upstart job to support something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900389/ ? (something like: "ADB_NETWORKING=true restart android-tools-adbd")
[11:57] <lool> cjwatson: probably best to put it in click itself for the demo
[12:03] <tvoss_> ogra_, http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/gadgets/ubuntu-smartphone-edge-canonical-will-32-millionen-dollar-sammeln-a-912540.html
[12:06]  * ogra_ reads
[12:08] <ogra_> tvoss_, \o/
[12:08] <ogra_> nice one
[12:08] <tvoss_> ogra_, yup
[12:21] <stgraber> barry: can you make dropping "model" from the config your priority, instead using a plugin system (similar to reboot) to get the device name?
[12:21] <stgraber> barry: I'm asking because the last system-image broke on all existing installs as it now requires a "dbus" key in the config which isn't there as the existing devices use a copy of the file created on first boot
[12:24] <stgraber> barry: the temporary workaround is to rm /userdata/system-data/etc/system-image/client.ini and reboot to get a new one generated, but that's pretty annoying so I'd rather get rid of that code ASAP
[12:25] <stgraber> barry: subprocess.call(['getprop', 'ro.hardware']) seems to be the standard way of getting the model name
[12:28] <gema> cjwatson: I am going to cancel today's catch up
[12:29] <gema> cjwatson: tons of stuff going on that require my attention
[12:29] <gema> cjwatson: if you and/or slangasek could send email if you have any immediate concern that'd help
[12:29] <cjwatson> gema: OK, that's fine, I'm sprinting anyway
[12:29] <gema> cjwatson: ack
[12:29] <stgraber> barry: I've posted on G+ and on my blog post's comment about the workaround, so hopefully not too many people won't get stuck on today's image.
[12:35] <ogra_> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/support-ubuntu-edge-enthusiast
[12:35]  * ogra_ giggles
[12:36] <ogra_> stgraber, btw, we switched to 20130722 today (finally) so your recovery img should be the right one in /current by default
[12:38] <xnox> ogra_: i thought there is another fix since 22 image.
[12:40] <barry> stgraber: ah, because client.ini will be conffiled but people will have edited it to change the model.
[12:40] <ogra_> xnox, another fix ?
[12:41] <xnox> ogra_: last commit Mon Jul 22 13:47:57 2013 +0100 no idea if that's on the 22 image or not.
[12:41] <ogra_> no, wont be
[12:41] <ogra_> the jenkins build runs a few hours before that
[12:42] <ogra_> and the ubuntu side just uses whats recent on jenkins
[12:42] <xnox> ogra_: will be soon here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android/0.20130723-0ubuntu9/+build/4818671
[12:42] <ogra_> :)
[12:42] <ogra_> well, we wont see a release soon i fear
[12:43] <ogra_> requirement now is that the deashboard is all green before we do the next /current release
[12:43] <ogra_> i suspect that will take a few days
[12:45] <sergiusens> xnox: jenkins build takes 1h (more or less depending on load)
[12:46] <xnox> sergiusens: 41min on the builders, and that's with xz compression, could try without xz, to see if that improves buildtime.
[12:47]  * ogra_ glares at the dashboard
[12:48] <ogra_> so manta for yesterday and today had the same failure/success rate .... but yesterday shows 82.3% and today 82.8% ....
[12:49]  * ogra_ wonders how these percentage values are made up
[12:50] <sergiusens> ogra_: gema the meeting we have with gema in 4 hours is to discuss click + image based upgrades
[12:51] <ogra_> sergiusens, oh, do we ?
[12:51] <sergiusens> xnox: nice, I know that I'm blocked on jenkins by I/O since it's virtual and shared
[12:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: not you though ;-)
[12:51] <xnox> sergiusens: ouch.
[12:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: just mentioning it
[12:51] <ogra_> ah
[12:51] <ogra_> right
[12:52] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, i think we wont get around using developer mode for testing in any case
[12:59] <sergiusens> ogra_: we can avoid it
[12:59] <ogra_> with special image builds ?
[12:59] <sergiusens> ogra_: our whole paradigm of the packagename-autopilot thing might need to change
[12:59] <ogra_> after all the test packages need to be installeed
[12:59] <sergiusens> ogra_: can't
[13:00] <ogra_> thats what i mean
[13:00] <ogra_> so either make the tests (and their deps) click as well, or use dev mode
[13:00] <sergiusens> ogra_: test packages depend on the actual package, not sure if in the end we should remove all debian packaging from the app source
[13:00] <sergiusens> ogra_: I'm favouring click or just a source pull
[13:00] <ogra_> well, the default installl wont have apt/deb stuff enabled
[13:01] <sergiusens> ogra_: images aren't that big, I can't use the device as a builder ;-)
[13:01] <ogra_> so yeah, i think it should be click
[13:01] <ogra_> *if* we can easily fulfill all deps in advance indeed
[13:02] <fps> will there be ubuntu touch devices that will have a complete open source driver stack?
[13:03] <ogra_> unlikely unless there is a vendor creating a fully open graphics chip
[13:03] <ogra_> (which doesnt exist to date)
[13:04] <sergiusens> ogra_: for http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900389/ we will need udev rules for 'sys.usb.config rndis,adb' ... I'll add those
[13:04] <kalikiana> intel showed it can be done, now we "only" need the equivalent arm based vendor
[13:05] <ogra_> sergiusens, so do you agree to have something in the upstart job to switch it on ?
[13:05] <ogra_> i'm not really sure about the IP config that needs
[13:05] <sergiusens> ogra_: I'd rather have seb128 do it as part of the settings app :-)
[13:06] <ogra_> ?
[13:06] <ogra_> i wouldnt expose it in any UI at all
[13:06] <fps> ogra_: i could live with unaccelerated graphics and an ncurses like text interface
[13:06] <fps> dammit
[13:06] <ogra_> thats clearly a developer setup
[13:06] <ogra_> fps, Mir wouldnt :)
[13:06] <fps> ogra_: who's Mir?
[13:07] <fps> [sorry for noob question ;D]
[13:07] <ogra_> the thing driving the display
[13:07] <ogra_> the replacement for X11 the phones will use
[13:07] <ogra_> it either needs free drm drivers (which dont exist on phones) or android binary blobs
[13:07] <fps> ogra_: oh. another x11 alternative.. what happened to wayland or what it was called?
[13:08] <ogra_> still there but wont be used in ubuntu
[13:08] <ogra_> (for details feel free to go to #ubuntu-mir)
[13:08] <fps> ogra_: thanks for the tip
[13:12] <mefrio> hi all...I just branches lp:music-app and tried to run it with QtCreator but I get the following error: "music-app.qml:23 module "org.nemomobile.folderlistmodel" is not installed"
[13:12] <mefrio> how can I install "org.nemomobile.folderlist"?
[13:15] <mefrio> oh I solved installing lp:~ajalkane/ubuntu-filemanager-app/qml-folderlistmodel
[13:16] <iainfarrell> mefrio I have all sorts of errors running the apps on my desktop, do they depend on each another to operate?
[13:17] <mefrio> iainfarrell, I am trying it now for the first time with music app. Even if I solved the error above I still get "Cannot assign to non-existent property "filterDirectories" error
[13:17] <mefrio> let me try with filemanager app
[13:17] <jeanaustinr> Hi, just a quick question. I'm planning to install Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 4. How large are the packages to be installed to the phone?
[13:18] <iainfarrell> mefrio that's my experience too, 13.04 64bit
[13:18] <mefrio> iainfarrell, filemanager app does not run too here (13.04 32bit)
[13:19] <mefrio> I think we are doing something wrong
[13:19] <mefrio> iainfarrell, calendar app runs here
[13:19] <iainfarrell> mefrio me too :) I followed the OMG! and other sites instructions
[13:19] <iainfarrell> they just said to install
[13:19] <iainfarrell> mine runs but the content is missing
[13:20] <mefrio> iainfarrell, can you link me this tutorials?
[13:21] <iainfarrell> mefrio http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/how-to-play-with-ubuntu-touch-apps-in-ubuntu-12-10
[13:21] <mefrio> iainfarrell, oh well, I am trying them from source code
[13:21] <stgraber> ogra_: awesome, thanks!
[13:22] <mefrio> but it should be the same
[13:22] <iainfarrell> mefrio yeah, unless they broke them in the most recent commit :)
[13:23] <mefrio> iainfarrell, yeah but I doubt it happened with 2 of 3 apps
[13:24] <iainfarrell> mefrio https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection/PPA
[13:24] <iainfarrell> we can reach out to  popey :)
[13:24] <iainfarrell> Although I'll need to do that when I'm back in front of my Ubuntu machine
[13:25] <mefrio> iainfarrell, anyway, looking at the errors I get, I think that it should be related to filemanager and its modules. Maybe music app uses them to load music files
[13:26] <iainfarrell> yeah, quite possibly mefrio
[13:26] <iainfarrell> we need a VM! :D
[13:29] <popey> iainfarrell: hmm?
[13:29] <iainfarrell> hey Mr popey
[13:29] <iainfarrell> me and mefrio are having trouble installing the touch core apps
[13:30] <iainfarrell> we get loads of errors
[13:30] <iainfarrell> is this common?
[13:30] <popey> on what release?
[13:30] <iainfarrell> 13.04
[13:30] <iainfarrell> I'm 64bit, he's 32
[13:30] <popey> can you pastebin the output?
[13:30] <iainfarrell> any thoughts?
[13:30] <iainfarrell> merfrio? ^^
[13:30] <mefrio> popey, sure, just a moment
[13:31] <mefrio> popey, "Cannot assign to non-existent property "filterDirectories""
[13:31] <mefrio> music app
[13:33] <lool> ralsina_: is there a test app I can search for with the new scope?
[13:33]  * lool has a hard time triggering search on the grouper
[13:33] <popey> mefrio: there is a dependancy on the nemo file manager plugin
[13:34] <popey> which should also be in the ppa
[13:34] <popey> how did you install the music app?
[13:34] <mefrio> popey, I branched the code and run it with QtCreator
[13:35] <lool> barry: oh there's another thing I wanted to bring up
[13:35] <sergiusens> cjwatson: when you have time, can I see your code (link/branch) for the click desktop hook?
[13:35] <lool> barry: delta size seemed relatively big
[13:35] <popey> ah
[13:36] <lool> barry: checking out today's update for grouper, I was surprized that it was so close in size to yesterday (27 vs. 26 M)
[13:36] <popey> mefrio: there's a dependancy you need installing first..
[13:36] <lool> barry: looking inside, I saw almost all of it is system.img; would you know why that is?
[13:37] <barry> lool: i don't.  i haven't looked at the service side scripts at all unfortunately
[13:37] <sergiusens> lool: yesterday all the binaries were updated to 4.2.2 , so most likely in todays build
[13:37] <popey> mefrio:  nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel is in the ppa https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily
[13:37] <lool> sergiusens: ahhh just coincidence then
[13:37] <popey> (as is the music app)
[13:38] <sergiusens> popey: what's the dependency?
[13:38] <mefrio> popey, thank you :)
[13:38] <popey> mefrio: you could build that from source too, or just install the file manager (and music app) from the ppa
[13:38] <mefrio> ok thanks :)
[13:38] <mefrio> iainfarrell, ^^
[13:38] <popey> sergiusens: ^^
[13:38] <lool> barry: Hmm also I see all symlinks to busybox were updated which account for a number of small files in the update, but I suspect that might be a bug in the system side logic that it will bundle a symlink if the contents have changed; will check it out
[13:38] <lool> barry: not too worrying
[13:39] <barry> lool: yeah, i do remember stgraber saying something about symlinks ;)  best perhaps to drop him an email
[13:39] <sergiusens> popey: we probably need to strip out that dependency and either put it in the music app or if it's a plugin, add it as debian package and install on the base system (as in make it part of the sdk)
[13:40] <sergiusens> popey: to get it click friendly
[13:40] <mefrio> popey, is there any software center app?
[13:41] <popey> mefrio: not yet
[13:41] <nik90|Office> tvoss_: Are there any sample qml codes for automatic location detection? I remember reading that location detection support has been added to the platform by you.
[13:41] <w-flo> are there plans to support LGPL libraries with (proprietary) click packages? The user needs to be able to replace the .so file bundled with the packages with his own.. maybe we can start our apps with LD_PRELOAD_PATH=/home/app-id/lib/ to allow the user to put his compiled LGPL .so files there?
[13:41] <ogra_> popey, will theer be ?i thought it was all "in shell" stuff now
[13:41] <mefrio> popey, ok
[13:41] <popey> well, i mean "there is no store mechanism yet"
[13:41] <ogra_> yeah
[13:42] <mefrio> popey, isn't there any wiki page or any other place where someone is discussing it?
[13:42] <tvoss_> nik90|Office, will find oyu an example
[13:42] <nik90|Office> tvoss_: If I can implement, then the weather app can benefit from this as well since they need it in the same way as the clock app :)
[13:42] <nik90|Office> tvoss_: thnx
[13:43] <tvoss_> nik90|Office, great :)
[13:44] <cjwatson> sergiusens: when it exists :)
[13:44] <cjwatson> sergiusens: (I'm sprinting on something else and stealing time for this when I can)
[13:44] <cjwatson> sergiusens: what are you interested in about it?
[13:44] <sergiusens> cjwatson: ah great, I saw a comment on adding to package so thought it may be done, no rush
[13:45] <cjwatson> sergiusens: from your point of view you should just be able to say "hooks": { "app-name": { "apparmor": "apparmor/app-name.json", "desktop": "app-name.desktop" } }
[13:46] <cjwatson> which I think is the example structure sprinkled around in a few places
[13:46] <popey> sergiusens: as I am out at OSCON this week, maybe mhall119 can help you with that? the file manager app will also need the same plugin
[13:47] <sergiusens> cjwatson: that's done, all the new click packages have that :-)
[13:47] <cjwatson> w-flo: the LGPL doesn't mean that the code has to be writable on disk; the user can build a new click package with their changes to the LGPLed elements (perhaps just locally) and install it
[13:47] <jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest#Click should be up to date
[13:47] <sergiusens> cjwatson: just wanted to see if I am missing anything in the desktop files themselves
[13:47] <cjwatson> that's sufficient to comply with the licence conditions, and probably the right thing anyway
[13:47] <sergiusens> jdstrand: the click packages as well ;-)
[13:47] <jdstrand> ah, sorry, you were talking about the desktop files
[13:47] <lool> sergiusens, barry: Ok got it: the mtime of the symlinks to busybox was updated triggering the inclusion; so not a bug in the delta generation
[13:48]  * barry nods
[13:48] <jdstrand> sergiusens: you updated the click packages to the new format?
[13:48] <w-flo> cjwatson, it's an app that I want to sell, so it's probably a bad idea to release the source code so the user can re-package it? I'd probably have to switch to a BSD style library then instead of LGPL..
[13:48] <sergiusens> jdstrand: yes http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5904158/
[13:49] <cjwatson> w-flo: I think one of us misunderstands how click packages work ...
[13:49] <jdstrand> oh
[13:49] <w-flo> cjwatson, it's probably me. :-)
[13:49] <jdstrand> click/DEBIAN/manifest vs click/apparmor/music.json
[13:49] <cjwatson> w-flo: to construct a click package, you only need the filesystem tree that the click package unpacks to - so they can unpack it, replace the LGPLed elements, repack
[13:49] <w-flo> ah, alright, I see. thanks!
[13:50] <sergiusens> jdstrand: feel free to send me anything that needs fixing or updating
[13:50] <sbeattie> cjwatson: is the manifest file supposed to end up in .click/info/manifest or .click/info/APPNAME.manifest?
[13:51] <cjwatson> sbeattie: the latter
[13:51] <jdstrand> cjwatson, sergiusens: perhaps some discussions happened that I missed. lets say I have a source tree. I don't know, let's call it 'evilapp' :)
[13:51] <sbeattie> ah, okay
[13:51] <urmysony> Hi Guys
[13:51] <urmysony> m planning to install ubuntu touch on my nexus 4..
[13:51]  * sbeattie missed when that change.
[13:51] <urmysony> Is there any risk??
[13:51] <sbeattie> s/change\./changed/
[13:51] <cjwatson> sbeattie: it didn't change
[13:51] <jdstrand> cjwatson: where is the manifest supposed to go, and where does the apparmor json go?
[13:52] <sergiusens> jdstrand: that's an uninstalled package that I showed
[13:52] <cjwatson> jdstrand: .click/info/PKGNAME.manifest; and you get the apparmor json from the symlink created during hook execution
[13:52] <jdstrand> right, I am talking about the source atm
[13:52] <cjwatson> jdstrand: oh, who cares :)
[13:52] <cjwatson> app defines that
[13:52] <jdstrand> cjwatson: ok, how does the app define that?
[13:52] <cjwatson> best if the primary manifest is in manifest.json because then you don't have to pass options
[13:52] <jdstrand> "apparmor": "apparmor/music.json"
[13:53] <cjwatson> the location of the apparmor json file is defined in the hooks part of the primary manifest
[13:53] <jdstrand> apparmor/music.json is relative to the toplevel?
[13:53] <cjwatson> yes
[13:53] <jdstrand> ok
[13:53] <cjwatson> jdstrand: ignore the DEBIAN/manifest in the paste above - --raw-extract isn't the way that click packages are actually installed
[13:54] <cjwatson> so that just reflects that the manifest is shipped in the control part of the .click to make it faster to extract
[13:54] <sbeattie> cjwatson: okay, then I'm having trouble getting the hook to register a symlink, when installing the calendar click from https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/calendar-app-click/11/
[13:55] <cjwatson> sbeattie: manifest looks ok
[13:55] <jdstrand> cjwatson: where do I put the manifest so that 'click build' will find it?
[13:55] <sbeattie> cjwatson: I have a registered (at package postinst) hook that contains Pattern: /var/lib/apparmor/clicks/%s and /var/lib/apparmor/clicks/ exists, but I don't get a symlink showing up there.
[13:55] <jdstrand> I see
[13:55] <jdstrand> -m PATH
[13:55] <jdstrand> ./manifest.json
[13:55] <jdstrand> nm
[13:56] <cjwatson> jdstrand: yeah.  I would generally advise not using the option - just call it manifest.json
[13:56] <jdstrand> yep
[13:56] <cjwatson> sbeattie: can you pastebin the full hook?
[13:56] <ricmm> tsdgeos: ping
[13:57] <tsdgeos> ricmm: hi
[13:57] <sbeattie> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904177/
[13:58] <nik90|Office> tvoss_: were you able to find any examples?
[14:00] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> Hello
[14:01] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> Has anyone successfully ported the developer preview of Ubuntu Touch for the HTC Evo 3D?
[14:01] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> I'm going to follow the porting guide, but I dunno how that'll turn out since I'm not a developer by any stretch of the imagination.
[14:01] <sbeattie> cjwatson: stracing the click install sees it open and read the hook, find and read the package manifest, but never search for the apparmor json or attempt to symlink it.
[14:02] <sbeattie> killing the Exec line doesn't make any difference either.
[14:03] <stgraber> lool: hmm, interesting, I'll add that to my list of stuff to fix/improve in the differ (I've got bigger problems on that list though)
[14:04] <mhall119> sergiusens: what do you need for the file manager app?
[14:04] <cjwatson> sbeattie: in fact could you put the click-apparmor .deb somewhere for me and I'll have a look via that?
[14:05] <sergiusens> mhall119: the music app depends on something in the filemanager app ... (not sure what, just caught the conversation) ... for click that won't be usable, we need to either move whatever is in the FM-app to the base system or the sdk; or copy it to the music app itself
[14:07] <cjwatson> Well, you can't depend on one from the other
[14:08] <cjwatson> You can in principle find the filemanager app with click pkgdir, but I wouldn't recommend it :)
[14:09] <cjwatson> sbeattie: Oh, you're missing "User: root".  I'm surprised you don't get a traceback ...
[14:10] <ogra_> Shiggs|i5-2500k, is it not on the devices page ?
[14:10] <ogra_> !devices
[14:10] <sergiusens> cjwatson: the security hooks may disallow that though, can't be trusted :-)
[14:10] <mhall119> sergiusens: they both depend on another package for their QML plugin
[14:10] <cjwatson> sergiusens: oh, true
[14:11] <mhall119> sergiusens: it's probably something we want to offer in the base system
[14:11] <karan> hello
[14:11] <sergiusens> mhall119: ah, so the qml plugin, we need that in the base system
[14:11] <sergiusens> mhall119: or as part of the sdk itself
[14:11] <karan> can somebody tell me how i can install ubuntu on micromax a57?
[14:11] <sergiusens> mhall119: has bzoltan looked into adding it?
[14:11] <karan> Please help me out!!
[14:11] <diwic> rsalveti, awe, should we have a meeting about defining the requirements for the new audio stack?
[14:11] <mhall119> sergiusens: I don't think so, since pre-click it wasn't an issue
[14:11] <bzoltan> I am here...
[14:12] <karan> can somebody tell me how i can install ubuntu on micromax a57?
[14:12] <karan> can somebody tell me how i can install ubuntu on android phone?
[14:12] <mhall119> !devices | karan
[14:12] <mhall119> karan: if your device is on that list is should also have a link to instructions for installing Ubuntu Touch on it
[14:12] <karan> Thnx ubot5 and mhall119
[14:12] <mhall119> if it's not on that list, it probably don't have an image yet
[14:12] <bzoltan> sergiusens: mhall119:  guys, please brief me :)
[14:13] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> ogra_, no my device is not officially supported, but it should work since the HTC Sensation 4G (http://www.droidevs.com/showthread.php?t=1107) has a port in progress
[14:13] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> they're essentially the same phone besides radios
[14:14] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> wth
[14:14] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> #Ubuntu-phone is invite only, but when I go into the webchat by means of Shiggitay it sends me here
[14:14] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> o_O
[14:15] <mhall119> bzoltan: both the music-app and filemanager-app depend on a QML plugin in a separate package to read file data
[14:15] <sergiusens> bzoltan: there's a qml plugin that two apps use (music and filemanger), would you consider it for the sdk? It's a filemanager plugin (I guess)
[14:15] <mhall119> bzoltan: but when those apps start using Click packaging, they won't be able to specify that dependency
[14:15] <mhall119> which means it either needs to be in the base system that Click packages assume is available, or in the SDK itself
[14:15] <bzoltan> sergiusens, mhall119:  sure.. what is that plugin? Where does it live?
[14:16] <mhall119> bzoltan<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:16] <mhall119> it currently lives in the Core Apps Daily PPA
[14:16] <mhall119> bah, wrong paste
[14:16] <mhall119> qtdeclarative5-nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel
[14:16] <bzoltan> mhall119: I do not wish to put her into the SDK :)
[14:16] <sergiusens> we need that in main as well
[14:16] <sergiusens> lol
[14:16] <mhall119> lol, she's probably not like that
[14:17] <bzoltan> let me see
[14:18] <cjwatson> sbeattie: does "User: root" help?
[14:18] <bzoltan>  mhall119: well... ya  know... itis not exactly an early call to add something to the SDK :D
[14:18] <rsalveti> diwic: yup, sending the invite in a few, will try something for tomorrow
[14:19] <diwic> rsalveti, ok!
[14:19] <slangasek> gema: I'm fine to skip this week, it's all sprint prep for me right now :)
[14:19] <gema>  slangasek same here, thanks ÑD
[14:19] <gema> :D
[14:19] <karan> hello, i didn't find anything usefull , any body knows the direct ubuntu rom download link , so i can install it via CWM recovery on my phone
[14:20] <mhall119> bzoltan: what do you mean, it's before release day, that should be plenty of time :)
[14:20] <mhall119> karan: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
[14:21] <urmysony> Guys is the wifi working on nexus 4??
[14:21] <karan> let me try , thnx mhall119
[14:22] <urmysony> as per the status it should work.. but with previous build of 12-07 it didnt work..
[14:23] <bzoltan> mhall119: hehe :)
[14:24] <boiko> awe: have you seen a problem that when you start ofono-phonesim on the desktop, networkmanager crashes?
[14:25] <awe> boiko, no... I never run touch on the desktop.  ;)
[14:25] <awe> boiko, I assume you're talking about the phabletX version of ofono?
[14:25] <boiko> awe: nope, the one in saucy, or at least I think it is the one in saucy
[14:26] <awe> so vanilla ofono/network-manager?
[14:26] <boiko> awe: yep
[14:26] <awe> yea, I hadn't heard about that problem
[14:26] <boiko> awe: ok, I'll try to get more info later today to report a bug
[14:26] <awe> I assume you'll be on the phone testing hangout, right?
[14:26] <boiko> yep
[14:26] <awe> k
[14:28] <bzoltan> mhall119:  just to verify ... so you want me to copy that QML plugin to the SDK Release PPA and add that package to the ubuntu-sdk dependencies
[14:30] <sergiusens> bzoltan mhall119 we eventually need it in the archives and in main
[14:32] <bzoltan> sergiusens: that is something you need to talk to the distro folks
[14:33] <mhall119> we have it in a bzr branch currently and  building automatically with Jenkins
[14:33] <bzoltan> mhall119. and does it land to Saucy?
[14:37] <chewed-on> Does Ubuntu phone comes with Super Tux preinstalled ?
[14:38] <wastrel> no
[14:38] <chewed-on> :(
[14:38] <chewed-on> Minesweep ? :D
[14:39] <mhall119> not pre-installed, but there's a minesweeper available
[14:39] <mhall119> bzoltan: no plans currently to land it in Saucy, no, but it should
[14:40] <sergiusens> mhall119: we are not upstream for that, right?
[14:40] <bzoltan> mhall119: hmm... then we need to be super careful ... because we will update the ubuntu-sdk in Saucy, but we do not want to add there dependency what will break
[14:40] <sbeattie> cjwatson: bah, issue is impedence mismatch between my package being called click-apparmor w/dh_click versus the hook name being apparmor.
[14:41] <sergiusens> mhall119: where's the branch?
[14:42] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> I guess no one's attempted my project huh
[14:42] <ogra_> chsudoku
[14:42] <ogra_> chewed-on, ^^^
[14:43] <mhall119> sergiusens: technically no, Nemo Mobile is the upstream
[14:43] <zAo_> If there any hope for Snapdragon S600 phones?
[14:44] <mhall119> but I don't know if any of our changes have been incorporated into upstream yet
[14:44] <zAo_> is*
[14:44] <urmysony> i have installed ubuntu touch on my nexus 4
[14:44] <urmysony> :)
[14:44] <urmysony> loving it
[14:44] <barry> does someone have some touch hardware handy that they could run a little bit of python on?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904337/  (my device is currently in an unhappy place ;)
[14:44] <sergiusens> mhall119: I'll package it with the diffs we have and see where we can go from there
[14:44] <barry> that needs to run on actual h/w but it doesn't matter which model
[14:44] <chewed-on> I'm looking at this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtcj7FdIYA   I think the user experience is slightly flawed.
[14:44] <mhall119> bzoltan: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-filemanager-dev/ubuntu-filemanager-app/plugin
[14:45] <mhall119> barry: sure
[14:45] <barry> mhall119: thanks
[14:45] <sergiusens> barry: tuna
[14:45] <Shiggs|i5-2500k> :\ :\
[14:46] <barry> sergiusens: and what kind of h/w do you have?
[14:46] <sergiusens> barry: we are using a different android prop
[14:46] <sergiusens> barry: maguro, but the baseline is tuna so that is correct
[14:46] <chewed-on> 1) Ubuntu mobile OS seems to encourage drag and drop action for menus. Dragging from left to switch app and then without lifting finger, move to app icon then release finger or dragging top menu down then while still holding finger down, move a scrollbar left and right to go to different screen settings, very error prone and requires too much cognitive load.
[14:46] <sergiusens> barry: use ro.product.device
[14:46] <barry> sergiusens: it has to match up with these names: http://system-image.ubuntu.com/daily/
[14:46] <barry> sergiusens: thanks, let me adapt
[14:47] <sergiusens> barry: [ro.product.device]: [maguro]
[14:47] <chewed-on> 2) Swiping from right to left to switch between multitasking essentially provides tunnel vision of the opened apps, and sequential navigation is not very fast.
[14:47] <sergiusens> barry: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/session-manager-touch/trunk/view/head:/ubuntu-touch-session.conf#L21
[14:47] <barry> sergiusens: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904352/
[14:47] <sergiusens> barry: we use that entry everywhere to detect device
[14:47] <cjwatson> sbeattie: that shouldn't matter as long as the .hook file is apparmor.hook ...
[14:47] <barry> sergiusens: beauty, thanks
[14:48] <sergiusens> barry: that returns what you want: maguro ;-)
[14:48] <sergiusens> without the ;-)
[14:48] <sbeattie> cjwatson: how do I get dh_click to accept apparmor.hook in?
[14:48] <ogra_> gema, sisnce we discussed testing times yesterday ... just FYI, the image came out of cdimage at 11 UTC ... http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/ is still missing 4 tests for maguro and mako before it would be releasable ... so your estimation of "it takes munites" kind of doesnt match my observation :) (its rarther 4h currently)
[14:48] <sbeattie> s/ in//
[14:48] <barry> sergiusens: thanks! and :)
[14:48] <ogra_> *minutes
[14:49] <zAo_> Is there a way to test the desktop convergence? I really like that look into the future :)
[14:49] <ogra_> zAo_, thats a 14.04 feature, wont be worked on until october
[14:50] <zAo_> thanks ogra_
[14:50] <cjwatson> sbeattie: oh, I see what you mean.  give me a minute
[14:53] <cjwatson> sbeattie: I'll give you a --name option like there is for dh_installinit, so you can call it debian/click-apparmor.apparmor.hook
[14:53] <cjwatson> and call dh_click --name=apparmor
[14:53] <cjwatson> sbeattie: Though you could just put the hook in apparmor, which would be more natural ...
[14:56] <sbeattie> cjwatson: the --name option would work great, thanks. (we'd figured the click hook would probably iterate more quickly than the rest of the apparmor package)
[14:56] <urmysony> Guys how to get google contacts in touch..
[14:56] <urmysony> the existing method is not working
[14:58] <cjwatson> sbeattie: try http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904393/ ?
[15:06] <gema> ogra_: what tests are you missing? you should be talking to plars
[15:07] <ogra_> gema, he is in our standup and just told me there were several that had to be restarted manually
[15:08] <ogra_> the current set is supposed to take ~1h
[15:08] <ogra_> (though thats still a lot given there might be a few 100 more tests in the final setup)
[15:10] <mhall119> woot, new perk! https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-filemanager-dev/ubuntu-filemanager-app/plugin
[15:10] <sergiusens> plars: do your devices in the lab have SIMs?
[15:10] <mhall119> dang, wrong link again!
[15:10] <mhall119> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=home
[15:10] <mhall119> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge/contributions/new?perk_amt=1400&perk_id=1204758 for the perk itself
[15:10] <plars> sergiusens: I think 2 do at the moment, nuclearbob is working on trying to get something going to actually try calling/texting
[15:11] <codinho> so all edges perks ended already?
[15:11] <popey> it useno
[15:11] <popey> bah
[15:11] <popey> no
[15:12] <codinho> popey, no?
[15:13] <popey> 16:11:58 < codinho> so all edges perks ended already?
[15:13] <popey> no
[15:13] <codinho> for 630 usd?
[15:13] <popey> that perk has
[15:13] <popey> others have not
[15:13] <popey> hence "no" to "all"
[15:13] <codinho> ..
[15:13] <gema> ogra_: sounds good
[15:19] <jdstrand> jcollado: hi! I just noticed that http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3141/ the security tests came up, but have a Total count of 0. can you run them?
[15:19] <jdstrand> jcollado: also, http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3139/ didn't run the security tests at all
[15:20] <savagejen> I updated to saucy and don't see any of the neat ubuntu-touch functionality that I see on phones and tablets in videos
[15:23] <jdstrand> stgraber: hey, so I had some questions about image based upgrades, particularly wrt ufw
[15:23] <cloakandpigeon> Is anyone else getting slow boot times after switching to the image based upgrader?
[15:23] <jdstrand> stgraber: how are you handling natural changes to /etc? eg, adding a new user or updating a password?
[15:24] <ogra_> cloakandpigeon, well, the image based updates use loop mounted ext4 images there is a lot more setup stuff happening during boot with that
[15:24] <cloakandpigeon> Okay I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a bug, thanks
[15:25] <ogra_> well, i would consider it a bug :)
[15:26] <ogra_> but it is still a aprototype without any optimization
[15:31] <jcollado> jdstrand: Let me have a look
[15:32] <stgraber> jdstrand: well, we currently don't as our images are single-user and that user is present during our builds so we don't actually allow writes to that file at the moment
[15:33] <stgraber> jdstrand: otherwise we usually fork the file entirely (copy it to writable, bind-mount over the original) or we use mechanisms allowing for config overlay (like the extrausers nss plugin in this case)
[15:35] <jdstrand> stgraber: ok, so ufw is available in the images (it will eventually be part of the network indicator) and there are smoke tests to make sure it works. they will fail once image based updates are the default
[15:35] <jdstrand> stgraber: currently it modifies files in /lib/ufw, /etc/ufw and /etc/default/ufw
[15:36] <ogra_> jdstrand, so like them to /run or if you want the settings persistent to some place in /data
[15:36] <ogra_> (or bind mount)
[15:36] <jdstrand> stgraber: what do you suggest? I'd prefer not to do wild packaging changes because ufw is also used on desktops and servers
[15:36] <hans_henrik> is flash* supported?
[15:37] <hans_henrik> (without gnash)
[15:38] <stgraber> jdstrand: so basically we can't deal with conffile prompts on upgrade, so it's easy for me to have those files copied to writable storage and then access them from there, but if you change the format during upgrades, we'll have a problem
[15:38] <ogra_> hans_henrik, nope
[15:38] <stgraber> or we'll need to add a boot-time transition script that includes migration code to re-base the file on the new copy from the package
[15:39] <hans_henrik> dam
[15:39] <ogra_> hans_henrik, youtube works though (full html5 support is there by default)
[15:40] <hans_henrik> don't say that btw; "full html5 support" is bullshit :p
[15:40] <ogra_> well, it works fine
[15:40] <ogra_> for youtube at least
[15:41] <ogra_> and in the light that adobe stopped flash for linux a while ago already i doubt they would take the effort to port it to Mir
[15:41] <ogra_> (or wayland or anything else)
[15:41] <jdstrand> stgraber: currently only /etc/ufw/sysctl.conf and /etc/default/ufw are conffiles, the others are all ucf managed
[15:42] <hans_henrik> if "full html5 support" is indeed the case, i guess the infinite jukebox works great?  their heavy use of html5 Audio API  is only supported on chromium last i checked :p
[15:42] <jdstrand> well, there are others, but they definitely won't change (the upstart job, rsylog config, logrotate config)
[15:42] <hans_henrik> any idea if this page works? labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html
[15:42]  * ogra_ has no idea about any jukeboxes :)
[15:42] <jdstrand> there is a /etc/ufw/applications.d dir, but ufw doesn't edit them
[15:43] <hans_henrik> could som1 test if this page gives you a "play button", and starts playing a song when it has loaded? http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRORQWV13762CDDF4C
[15:45] <stgraber> jdstrand: so I've got some work schedule for next Friday (I'm sprinting this week and off all of next week except for Friday) to implement a nicer way of making files writable
[15:45] <jcollado> jdstrand: I see the test cases passed here: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-touch-mako-smoke-security/  It looks like the job was run twice, so probably what is being displayed in the dashboard is still the first run.
[15:45] <ogra_> hans_henrik, i have no phone near me atm, if it doesnt, please file a bug against the webrowser-app so it can be fixed
[15:45] <stgraber> jdstrand: that'll likely be a file under /etc that lists all paths that are writable with a choice of tmpfs/persistent and a flag to tell whether to copy the data over on first boot
[15:45] <stgraber> jdstrand: once we have that, it'll just be a matter of deciding what's best for each of your files/dirs and add them there
[15:46] <hans_henrik> ogra_, i dont have a ubuntu touch; im just considdering getting 1
[15:46] <ogra_> hans_henrik, well, if it wouldnt work it would be a bug that would get fixed :)
[15:47] <ogra_> (as long as it gets reported)
[15:47] <popey> I'll test it
[15:47] <jdstrand> stgraber: ok, that sounds great. should we file a bug or add a work item somewhere to remember not to forget about ufw?
[15:48] <stgraber> jdstrand: so I'm planning to send an e-mail to the touch list and possibly -devel once I have a nice way of dealing with those (currently it requires 3 package changes and a full rebuild, so not ideal)
[15:48] <jdstrand> ok
[15:48] <jdstrand> stgraber: thanks
[15:49] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[15:50] <AskUbuntu> Data-Security in Ubuntu-Phone | http://askubuntu.com/q/323456
[15:50] <hans_henrik> AskUbuntu, are you a bot?
[15:51] <popey> hans_henrik: tit is
[15:51] <popey> hans_henrik: that page doesnt work
[15:51] <hans_henrik> ok
[15:51] <popey> hans_henrik: they detect the browser it seems and spit out an error
[15:52] <popey> hans_henrik: http://popey.com/~alan/device-2013-07-23-165214.png
[15:52] <hans_henrik> nope, not the browser; e=document.creatElement(audio); if(!e)error(); if(!e.play)error();
[15:52] <hans_henrik> ~~
[15:53] <hans_henrik> popey, thanks for checking ^^
[15:53] <jdstrand> jcollado: re mako smoke> hrm, ok
[15:53] <popey> np
[15:54] <jcollado> jdstrand: This is the link to next run in case you want to take a look in advance: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-touch-mako-smoke-security/40/
[15:54] <jdstrand> jcollado: will that update the dashboard? (assuming it passes)
[15:54] <hans_henrik> (but for the record, it checks if the javascript engine has the WebAudio API that it needs; (which IE and FireFox and Opera and Safari DOES NOT), and throws that error if it doesnt :p
[15:56] <ogra_> hans_henrik, so its time to file a bug :)
[15:56] <ogra_> and get it fixed for release day
[15:56] <popey> hans_henrik: https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bug/1204161
[15:56] <popey> hans_henrik: feel free to leave comments there, much appreciated
[15:56] <ogra_> ah, neato
[15:57] <hans_henrik> popey, will you still be here in about ~30 minutes?
[15:57] <popey> my irc nickname will be
[15:57] <popey> so leave me a message
[15:59] <joselito1234> Hi, I'm trying to solve something here... After installing Ubuntu mobile.... My nexus 4 rebooted but the screen just went black... I've tried to reinstall it or something but adb just cant find the device.
[16:00] <ogra_> joselito1234, did you use phablet-flash to install ?
[16:00] <joselito1234> phablet-flash -b
[16:01] <joselito1234> the phone enters to bootloader but when i try to access the recovery mode it just goes black... and adb cant find it.
[16:05] <JamesTait> A couple of questions, if I may: I have ClockworkMod recovery on my Nexus 4, can I just flash, say, the system partition to get Ubuntu Touch and leave CWM in place?  And is there a dual-boot Ubuntu Touch/Android solution so I can switch back and forth easily, Just In Case?
[16:06] <JamesTait> I'm positive these questions are answered somewhere, but my intarweb-fu is failing me.
[16:07] <jcollado> jdstrand: Yes, results have been updated now.
[16:07] <ogra_> joselito1234, apt-cache madison phablet-tools
[16:08] <ogra_> joselito1234, check that you use the latest version
[16:27] <sbeattie> cjwatson: sorry for the delay, that patch works for me. I have come across a new issue, though: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904626/
[16:28] <cjwatson> blink :)
[16:28] <AskUbuntu> install Touch on Nexus 4, via Trisquel in VM on MacAir | http://askubuntu.com/q/323473
[16:28] <cjwatson> sbeattie: oh, you missed another part of the format change
[16:28] <sbeattie> ah
[16:28] <cjwatson> sbeattie: you need "Pattern: /var/lib/apparmor/clicks/${id}"
[16:29] <cjwatson> sbeattie: and if I were you I would actually make that "Pattern: /var/lib/apparmor/clicks/${id}.json"
[16:29] <cjwatson> sbeattie: It's helpful to have an extension so that you can unambiguously avoid editor backup files and other such silliness
[16:29] <sbeattie> mmm, yes.
[16:31] <cloakandpigeon> Anyone have any luck getting 3G data to work in Canada (Rogers)?  I have tried adjusting the serviceproviders.xml file about 100 times, but it still wont' connect
[16:44] <n-iCe> is ubuntu phone ready for any device?
[16:49] <savagejen> If I have a vanilla ubuntu installation of saucy, how do I make the interface look like the one for the phablet?
[16:54] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, Install touch
[16:54] <savagejen> wilee-nilee, where is it?
[16:55] <savagejen> wilee-nilee, in the ppa?
[16:56] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, I have not done it for awhile but the channel header has the info in the links
[16:56] <savagejen> ok
[16:59] <jdstrand> jcollado: cool, thanks :)
[17:07] <savagejen> wilee-nilee, I am just not finding it
[17:08] <savagejen> I did find a ppa called "touch-coreapps"
[17:08] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Instructions_for_flashing_a_phone_or_tablet_device_with_Ubuntu
[17:08] <popey> savagejen: wassup?
[17:09] <savagejen> wilee-nilee, no I'm not looking to flash a phone
[17:09] <savagejen> I have a touch screen laptop running saucy
[17:09] <savagejen> and want to give it the tablet interface
[17:09] <savagejen> with all the fancy touch gestures
[17:09] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, Does not matter I loaded my nexus 7
[17:09] <savagejen> ?
[17:10] <savagejen> I don't need to flash to a phone or tablet
[17:10] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, you can't just add the touch stuff to saucy as far as I know.
[17:10] <savagejen> why not?
[17:11] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, touch is 1/2 android, I'm not sure myself what is what as far as what you want.
[17:11] <ogra_> savagejen, oncee unity8 fully runs on MIr and Mir is in the archive you will be able to
[17:11] <ogra_> wilee-nilee, he can just install the shell
[17:12] <ogra_> it wont be a great experience but it surely works  once all bits are apt-gettable
[17:12] <wilee-nilee> ogra_, I wondered, I was trying to make it clear that I only know so much, which is mot much, even on a good day. ;)
[17:12] <ogra_> well, the UI isnt bound to the android bits
[17:13] <ogra_> we do that on a lower level ... so just having the touch shell is possible
[17:13] <wilee-nilee> ogra_, I know there is the saucy load
[17:13] <wilee-nilee> I have used both on my nexus 7
[17:16] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, Is any of that making sense for you?
[17:16] <savagejen> sorry on a call
[17:17] <wilee-nilee> cool
[17:17] <savagejen> but I want the interface on my laptop
[17:18] <cjwatson> sbeattie: I'm having a go at writing the desktop hook now, although it will only work at all once click-apparmor is in place
[17:18] <cjwatson> sbeattie: do you expect you might have that in place today?
[17:19] <wilee-nilee> savagejen, I'm only slightly familiar with all this so others will be better in helping. ;)
[17:25] <sbeattie> cjwatson: yeah, that's the intent
[17:32] <annerajb> Oh ... just noticed the ubuntu edge is not CDMA... Does anyone know if it will support both CDMA and GSM??
[17:32] <popey> it wont
[17:32] <annerajb> oh brb going to cry under the desk
[17:33] <popey> heh
[17:34] <annerajb> now i have to find a company that works as well as sprint that is GSM :(
[17:57] <cjwatson> sbeattie: You're possibly going to run into https://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/click/revision/164
[17:58] <sbeattie> cjwatson: ah, possibly, yeah.
[17:58] <cjwatson> (Breaks "click hook remove")
[18:03] <marlinc> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/16/Drevil_million_dollars.jpg/200px-Drevil_million_dollars.jpg - 32 million dollarsssss
[18:10] <annerajb> marlinc: lol
[18:10] <marlinc> I hope they succeed :)
[18:11] <annerajb> same marlinc i also hope i have changed my carrier to a gsm one -_-
[18:12] <marlinc> Haha :p
[18:13] <marlinc> I hope we will get LTE in the entire country soon
[18:13] <marlinc> Well soon might not happen :P
[18:18] <annerajb> marlinc: i dont get if LTE should work on Sprint or if it has to be CDMA and LTE to work on sprint
[18:18] <marlinc> By the entire country I mean The Netherlands right :)
[18:18] <marlinc> I don't know about the state in the US
[18:19] <annerajb> marlinc: IC
[18:29] <cjwatson> Exec = aa-exec -p com.ubuntu.calendar_calendar_0.4 qmlscene calendar.qml
[18:29] <cjwatson> woo
[18:29] <cjwatson> sbeattie: ^- that's right, isn't it?
[18:30] <sbeattie> yes
[18:30] <sbeattie> cjwatson: ^
[18:31] <barry> seb128: hi.  just wondering what's up with the ui work today.  i am patch piloting this afternoon, and had a critical bug to fix this morning, so i haven't even started to look at it.
[18:31] <cjwatson> sbeattie: If anything in https://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/click/revision/166 looks wrong to you (as opposed to merely ghastly), now's a good time to say :)
[18:40] <sbeattie> cjwatson: nothing looks obviously wrong to me, ugly though the desktop quoting might be.
[18:41] <cjwatson> Yeah, that's one of those where I want to reeducate the people who designed the format.  With a rubber mallet
[18:41] <marlinc> Will any of the core touch apps be available on the desktop?
[18:41] <cjwatson> And it seems to work at least for now
[18:41]  * cjwatson uploads click 0.2.2
[18:43] <cjwatson> And I think it may be time for beer
[18:48] <savagejen> ogra_, where can I find the package for the touch shell?
[18:49] <savagejen> sorry that call took forever
[19:26] <seb128> barry, hey, yes, we are on it, let me update the bug
[19:26] <seb128> barry, I spent an hour with didrocks today to get him started, he said he should have something working tomorrow
[19:27] <seb128> barry, is the service working on a normal desktop or only on ubuntu touch?
[19:28] <barry> seb128: only on touch, although if you fiddle with the ini file (to select writable paths) and run it as non-root, you can do everything on a normal desktop except reboot to recovery :)
[19:29] <barry> seb128: that sounds great, thanks
[19:29] <seb128> barry, ok, that's good to know, makes testing/iterating easier
[19:29] <seb128> barry, yw!
[19:29] <dolm_> Hey guys, I have a question is Ubuntu-touch still running on the android kernel?
[19:32] <annerajb> dolm_: AFAIK it's not
[19:32] <dolm_> have they modified the linux kernel?
[19:33] <dolm_> Or on which kernel do they run
[19:33] <dolm_> ?
[19:34] <ogra_> dolm_, it is the android kernel source with a modified config
[19:35] <ogra_> (and on the nexus devices with a few extra bits added ... i.e. apparmor)
[19:38] <dolm_> many thanks for the answers!
[19:55] <plars> rsalveti: I'm seeing the camera app crash if I switch back and forth quickly, maybe a dup of https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1203133 but from your bug I got the idea that it didn't crash, just that it did all of the actions?
[19:56] <rsalveti> plars: there's a memory related crash if you're using maguro
[19:56] <plars> rsalveti: this one is on mako
[19:56] <rsalveti> plars: have output from logcat?
[19:57] <rsalveti> plars: interesting, let me try to reproduce
[19:57] <plars> rsalveti: yes, one moment and I can pastebin it
[19:57] <rsalveti> plars: yeah, for me it just worked as expected, just took a few minutes to do all the actions :-)
[19:58] <plars> rsalveti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5905256/
[19:59] <rsalveti> plars: ouch, got a different crash here
[20:00] <rsalveti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5905260/
[20:00] <rsalveti> rebooting and will try again
[20:01] <rsalveti> plars: which image are you using? let me reflash my device
[20:01] <plars> rsalveti: ah crap, I forgot the --pending again
[20:01] <plars> rsalveti: I just realized that
[20:01] <plars> rsalveti: let me reflash and retry
[20:01] <rsalveti> plars: right, I'm also reflashing mine to see
[20:02] <rsalveti> E/QualcommCamera(  554): int android::camera_device_open(const hw_module_t*, const char*, hw_device_t**) Mutliple camera open instances are not supported
[20:02] <rsalveti> but seems I'm getting a regression here, seems it's trying to open the second camera while the first one is still opened
[20:03] <sergiusens> rsalveti: did you see my ping from yesterday morning?
[20:03] <rsalveti> sergiusens: yesterday morning? not so sure
[20:04] <rsalveti> sergiusens: which ping?
[20:04] <sergiusens> 10:49 < sergiusens> FAILED (failures=5)
[20:04] <sergiusens> 10:49 < sergiusens> asac: ^^
[20:04] <sergiusens> 10:50 < sergiusens> asac: rsalveti main cause of failures in camera-app on manta is "Camera error: "Unable to connect to camera" "
[20:04] <rsalveti> right, that's manta
[20:04] <rsalveti> let me also reflash that
[20:05] <rsalveti> seems the camera hal is really sensible somehow
[20:13] <rsalveti> sergiusens: plars: the camera app is really broken with mako
[20:14] <rsalveti> works just fine with maguro, can take pictures, switch camera, record video
[20:14] <plars> rsalveti: yeah, that's what I'm getting at
[20:14] <rsalveti> but it seems we need a bit of more love in the hal layer
[20:14] <ItsHorst> Hi, are there plans that the ubuntu installer offers btrfs on a LUKS-encrypted partition?
[20:15] <rsalveti> there are so many bugs in the camera-app it's not even fun
[20:15] <rsalveti> plars: let me open a few and you can confirm them
[20:15] <plars> rsalveti: ok, sounds good
[20:17] <xnox> ItsHorst: that's not related to this channel, you might want to look into #ubuntu-installer. And that is available, but is not stable (can fail to boot sometimes)
[20:18] <ItsHorst> Sorry for the wrong channel and thank you for your answer! I will ask there!! Thanks again!
[20:19] <rsalveti> plars: bug 1204255
[20:21] <ImageJPEG> I need some help trying to get Ubuntu Touch on my Droid Bionic, I followed this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/targa and all i get is a blank screen after rebooting from safestrap
[20:21] <annerajb> ImageJPEG: if you connect the usb cable and go into adb shell can you connect to the device?
[20:22] <ImageJPEG> i currently have a usb cable connected for power, can't transfer data
[20:22] <ImageJPEG> i don't have access to a usb cable to transfer data atm
[20:22] <rsalveti> sergiusens: we need to work with the hal/hybris testing asap
[20:22] <rsalveti> this could be functional tests for qtubuntu-camera
[20:28] <rsalveti> plars: bug 1204260
[20:29] <sergiusens> rsalveti: ack
[20:29] <sergiusens> it's my focus of the week
[20:29] <sergiusens> not going to be firefighting anymore
[20:29] <rsalveti> yeah, +1
[20:45] <plars> rsalveti: confirmed the first one, on 1204260 though I'm seeing something different. I don't see the crash, instead it seems to get stuck on one camera for me
[20:46] <plars> oh, there it is
[20:46] <plars> second try did it
[20:47] <rsalveti> plars: yeah, I got both
[20:48] <rsalveti> guess they are probably related
[20:48] <rsalveti> seems to be a race or similar
[21:00] <rsalveti> sergiusens: seems the camera-app is crashing from time to time with manta
[21:00] <rsalveti> trying to reproduce, but it's always working now =\
[21:01] <rsalveti> got it, finally
[21:03] <rsalveti> sergiusens: plars: bug 1204269
[21:06] <plars> rsalveti: having trouble reproducing this one
[21:07] <rsalveti> yeah, work most of the time it seems
[21:07] <plars> rsalveti: oh, manta... I just saw that finally :)
[21:07] <rsalveti> yeah
[21:07] <plars> rsalveti: I don't have a manta at home
[21:07] <rsalveti> oh, right
[21:07] <plars> sorry
[21:07] <rsalveti> then sergiusens can't confirm
[21:07] <rsalveti> s/can't/can/g
[21:07] <sergiusens> rsalveti: can or cant?
[21:07] <sergiusens> lol
[21:07] <sergiusens> what do you want it to be?
[21:07] <sergiusens> :-)
[21:07] <rsalveti> :-)
[21:12] <MacSlow> veebers, ping
[21:14] <cjwatson> sbeattie: Any luck?  I'm slightly worried that we might end up with this half-landed in tomorrow's image, and it just occurred to me that we might find that the desktop files for the click core apps installed in the image will take priority over the ones created for the packaged ones
[21:14] <cjwatson> sbeattie: So it would be very nice if they actually worked :-)
[21:22] <sergiusens> rsalveti: reproduced on first try
[21:22] <rsalveti> sergiusens: urgh
[21:27] <cjwatson> Oh, I forgot to set Path in generated .desktop files.  Better do that now
[21:40] <Gugan> hello all, this is my first time here.
[21:40] <Gugan> i have a samsung galaxy s plus gt-i9001 device
[21:41] <Gugan> is there a possibility to installa ubuntu touch
[21:44] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu touch to Android on Nexus S | http://askubuntu.com/q/323595
[21:45] <mhall119> !devices | Gugan
[21:45] <mhall119> ubot5: ?
[22:08] <cjwatson> sergiusens: I am kind of tempted to disable the code in livecd-rootfs that installs .click packages for tomorrow's images, to make the landing of desktop file and AppArmor profile generation a bit less rough.  What do you think?
[22:09] <cjwatson> sergiusens: There are several potential problems I can foresee with leaving that enabled following click 0.2.2, and I think it would be better to try installing Click packages on top of a clean image to see how they behave before turning the preinstallation back on
[22:10] <cjwatson> sergiusens: (And click 0.2.2 etc. is a prerequisite for making preinstalled Click packages actually usable)
[22:11] <veebers> MacSlow: pong
[22:14] <jdstrand> cjwatson: hi! I'm testing click 0.2.2 with click-apparmor, and it is all working great :)
[22:14] <jdstrand> cjwatson: is the desktop hook fully implemented?
[22:15] <jdstrand> I see this pattern: ${home}/.local/share/click/hooks/desktop/${id}.desktop
[22:15] <jdstrand> but nothing showed up in ~/.local/share/click/hooks/desktop/
[22:15] <jdstrand> (the directory doesn't exist
[22:15] <cjwatson> jdstrand: There are a few fixes needed in 0.2.3, which I just uploaded
[22:16] <cjwatson> jdstrand: Are you using pkcon to install?
[22:16] <jdstrand> no
[22:16] <jdstrand> I was just using click install
[22:17] <cjwatson> (a) pkcon doesn't work right in 0.2.2, hence 0.2.3 (b) if you're using click install then you need to remember --user=jdstrand (or whatever) to register the installed package for your user
[22:17] <cjwatson> If you don't register it then user-level hooks don't get called
[22:17] <jdstrand> ah
[22:18] <jdstrand> that was probably it
[22:18] <cjwatson> ~/.local/share/click/hooks/desktop/ is an intermediate directory - the actual output lands in ~/.local/share/applications/
[22:18] <jdstrand> cjwatson: does this json look ok: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5905647/
[22:19] <cjwatson> jdstrand: As I said to sergiusens above, I think we should temporarily stop preinstalling Click packages in daily images so that we minimise risk to daily quality from bugs in this set of changes we're landing
[22:19] <jdstrand> cjwatson: oh, that's fine
[22:19] <cjwatson> Since nothing actually depends on those preinstallations today as far as I know - we just wanted to make sure we could do it
[22:19] <jdstrand> I was going to put this on people and have someone install it manually for the walkthrough
[22:19] <cjwatson> jdstrand: Yes, that JSON looks fine to me
[22:19] <asac> sergiusens: yeah. manta is second prio though
[22:20] <jdstrand> cjwatson: this is actually starting to get rather exciting :)
[22:20] <asac> we want mako/maguro to be top
[22:20] <jdstrand> things are coming together :)
[22:20] <cjwatson> It's coming together
[22:22] <jdstrand> yeah, --user=... did the trick :)
[22:26] <jdstrand> cjwatson: oh, hah, you made the desktop hook prepend aa-exec. you're sneaky :) I was wondering why you made the wiki page edit earlier today :)
[22:26]  * jdstrand hugs cjwatson and sbeattie
[22:27] <cjwatson> Yep, pretty much had to
[22:27] <cjwatson> I've disabled the preinstallation of Click packages for now as mentioned above, and sent mail with a progress report
[22:28] <cjwatson> jdstrand: So does it actually let you launch the app?
[22:29] <cjwatson> I guess I maybe need to munge the Icon field
[22:29] <cjwatson> And I suspect X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain won't cause it to fetch translations from the right directory, but I'd need help to fix that
[22:30] <jdstrand> cjwatson: it will need an adjustment for sure
[22:30] <jdstrand> cjwatson: '--' should be before qmlscene. eg Exec=aa-exec -p <profile> -- /usr/bin/qmlscene ...
[22:30] <cjwatson> jdstrand: If you have this up and running, you have about half an hour of my attention before I want to crash, so now's a good time to squeeze more stuff in for the demo :)
[22:30] <cjwatson> jdstrand: OK
[22:31] <jdstrand> I'm testing if that's all that's needed
[22:31] <cjwatson> I don't think we need the full path to qmlscene in general; aa-exec uses a primitive that winds up being execvp
[22:33] <cjwatson> jdstrand: (done for 0.2.4)
[22:38] <jdstrand> \o/
[22:38] <cjwatson> It's launchable?
[22:38] <jdstrand> cjwatson: with manually adding '--' and adjusting my .desktop file, it worked on the desktop
[22:38] <cjwatson> Awesomesauce
[22:38] <jdstrand> (I had an error in my desktop file)
[22:38] <jdstrand> yes, let me try on group
[22:38] <jdstrand> grouper
[22:39] <cjwatson> Uploaded 0.2.4
[22:39] <cjwatson> What were you trying on?
[22:39] <cjwatson> Oh, the desktop
[22:39] <cjwatson> Too many meanings of desktop
[22:39] <jdstrand> saucy desktop. unity 7
[22:39] <cjwatson> Yeah, that's definitely a good start but I'd like confirmation of behaviour with the touch shell for sure
[22:40] <jdstrand> I have the new qtubuntu on grouper
[22:40] <jdstrand> so just gonna try there real quick
[22:40] <marlinc> This is the wrong channel but anyone who knows something about Unity integration on the desktop? :p No one is talking in #ubuntu-unity and #ubuntu-app-devel ...
[22:44] <k1l> any chance on getting the demoed ubuntu4android app for the nexus4?
[22:44] <jdstrand> cjwatson: well, I unfortunately have to go, and I need to rebuild the click-apparmor package on armhf. I'll let you know how things go when I get up
[22:45] <jdstrand> cjwatson: the only question is if the dash will pick it up. I know that the hooks will put everything where the would on desktop, and I know aa-exec with the profile works
[22:46] <cjwatson> jdstrand: OK, thanks for the feedback.  I'll be around again in nine hours or so
[22:56] <liam__> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/20130716/         is this for phone also?
[23:01] <sergiusens> cjwatson: for tomorrow when you look. I'm fine with disabling
[23:08] <cjwatson> sergiusens: great, thanks (working on that whole bed thing ...)
[23:11] <cjwatson> jdstrand: When is the test-run demo to Rick?
[23:11] <sergiusens> we can sync back tomorrow
[23:15] <gnufs> indiegogo down
[23:16] <gnufs> false alarm. it got back online.