[13:09] <nazgul> Hi. Tim sent me here. I would like to get involved in packaging Gnome 3.10. I have already read about how packaging on Ubuntu works.
[13:39] <PendragonUK> Hi peeps, quick question... Use of Mir/MirX in future for Ubuntu-gnome? Or will it be using X for the future until Wayland is properly supported.
[14:03] <tommie-lie> PendragonUK: Gnome will probably never use Mir
[22:11] <darkxst> jbicha, so that compat change did not help with webkit symbols
[22:12] <darkxst> It seems that the i386 -dbg and both dbgsym packages have debug symbols stripped, but the amd64 doesnt.
[22:13] <darkxst> I think I will just upload 2.0.4-1, but drop the -dbg packages
[22:30] <Ultra_HR> The wubi.exe on the Ubuntu Gnome 13.04 ISO just downloads the regular version of Ubuntu. Is there a fix for this? I really want to install Ubuntu Gnome with Wubi.


[17:22]  * jtaylor wonders if pypy is the slowest arm build in the archive
[17:22] <jtaylor> building since more than two days :O
[17:22] <jtaylor> good that it occasionally outputs junk else it would probably be killt :)
[17:49] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: yip, timeouts suck
[17:49] <tumbleweed> I still haven't managed to get pypy to build in the PPA build farm
[17:50] <tumbleweed> (pypy 2.0.x, that is)
[17:51] <tumbleweed> anyway, the armhf build timed out on the primary archive buildds


[13:59] <jcastro> hey marcoceppi
[13:59] <jcastro> I guess I am launching this hangout?
[14:00] <jcastro> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4f49dc030369bd430da528827e7b5ff186385242?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:00] <marcoceppi> jcastro: yeah
[14:00] <marcoceppi> en route
[14:01] <wedgwood> jcastro: got the hangout URL?
[14:01] <jcastro> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4f49dc030369bd430da528827e7b5ff186385242?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:01] <marcoceppi> jcastro: can you hear me?
[14:01] <jcastro> just sorting out a mic problem with marco
[14:01] <jcastro> nope
[14:03] <jcastro> wedgwood: going to join in?
[14:03] <wedgwood> (ignore me here, just getting this to my laptop) https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4f49dc030369bd430da528827e7b5ff186385242?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:03]  * jcastro nods
[14:11] <noodles775> hazmat: have you had a chance to get your ansible support improvements done? If not, and you've got a branch with the main ideas, I'd be happy to grab it and finish it.
[14:13] <arosales> hmm I can't get http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-1308-servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2/ to load for me
[14:13] <arosales> anyone else having this issue?
[14:13] <arosales> marcoceppi,
[14:13] <marcoceppi> arosales: getting 404
[14:14] <arosales> same here . . .
[14:14] <hazmat> noodles775, i haven't worked on it a few weeks, but its self-contained in the cs:~hazmat/precise/elasticsearch charm which is stable
[14:15] <noodles775> hazmat: k, I'll take a look. Thanks.
[14:16] <hazmat> that reuses an ansible role in the context of juju, i don't really consider it complete though the relation data isn't being pushed out to disk for the non juju usage
[14:23] <arosales> http://pad.ubuntu.com/71pRwCnCCz
[14:23] <arosales> marcoceppi, wedgwood, jcastro ^
[14:23] <arosales> et all
[14:24] <noodles775> Has there been any discussion of a scaffolding helper that generates a working basic charm (configurable, like http://yeoman.io/ is for webapps)
[14:25] <noodles775> That'd possibly function both as documentation and extendable working examples (but would be quite a bit of work).
[14:27] <noodles775> Oh - excellent. I'd not heard of the charm-create tool.
[14:27] <marcoceppi> noodles775: lp:charm-tools
[14:28] <marcoceppi> ppa:juju/pkgs has the lastest charm-tools, but that will be moving PPAs soon
[14:28] <noodles775> Excellent, yep that answers my question ;)
[14:35] <adam_g> sorry for being late, another session. is there plans to cut a 1.0 of charm-helpers? do we know when?
[14:42] <adam_g> thats cool. no rush from me, just curious
[14:47] <wedgwood> adam_g: I mentioned plans in a recent email to the juju mailing list. I put down a list of goals, but no deadline.
[14:47] <wedgwood> I think we'll target a 1.0 package in the PPA for saucy
[14:48] <adam_g> wedgwood, ya, thats why i was curious.
[14:48] <wedgwood> I'm filing more 1.0-related bugs now
[14:56] <jcastro> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9825969893f317cd0880da26f976c3e014553ff3b8?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:56] <jcastro> will be the next session
[15:08] <utlemming> YES! Examples
[15:35] <gary_poster> hi.  happy to join hangout if it would be helpful.  I don't see the hangout url
[15:43] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: we just finished up
[15:43] <marcoceppi> :(
[15:43] <gary_poster> oh :-(
[15:43] <gary_poster> ok
[15:43] <gary_poster> cool
[15:43] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: did you have anything in particular you wanted to talk about?
[15:44] <gary_poster> the web, gui and potentially cli aspects, marcoceppi.  I'm very to possibly responsible for parts of each of those :-)
[15:45] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, it may be that I'm early :-) for http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21899/servercloud-s-juju-new-user-ux/
[15:48] <mattyw> jcastro, is there an existing blueprint for the next session? (amazing 30 mins)
[15:48] <jcastro> not afaict
[15:48] <jcastro> I think we'll just pad it
[15:48] <jcastro> and then generate a bp out of it
[15:48] <jcastro> that way we can all pad at once
[15:48] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: we're on juju charm testing, atm
[15:49] <mattyw> jcastro, ok cool
[15:49] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: that session is going on elsewhere
[15:49] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: jk, that's going to happen in 10 mins
[15:49] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, lol
[15:50] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, care about the charm testing too, fwiw, but currently we are racing
[15:51] <arosales> Hangout URL for "Amazing First 30 min Juju Experience" session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/99da97cc46e64f09fbbdebfe4fc6aa0aaa2f5440?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:51] <arosales> starting in roughly ~8 minutes
[15:51] <arosales> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21899/servercloud-s-juju-new-user-ux/
[15:51] <jcastro> \o/
[15:51] <arosales> BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-new-user-ux
[15:52] <arosales> Pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-1308-servercloud-s-juju-new-user-ux/latest
[15:54] <jcastro> arosales: session starts a5 5 after, so ~10 from now
[15:55] <arosales> jcastro, ack
[16:03] <jcastro> arosales: got a link to the hangout handy?
[16:04] <arosales> Hangout URL for "Amazing First 30 min Juju Experience" session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/99da97cc46e64f09fbbdebfe4fc6aa0aaa2f5440?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:04] <arosales> rogpeppe, ^
[16:05] <arosales> staring here in  a few . . . .
[16:06] <arosales> evilnickveitch, ^
[16:07] <zyga> hi
[16:09] <m_3> thanks thumper for getting lxc in!
[16:11] <m_3> vagrant!!!
[16:12] <mattyw> jcastro, I'm going to join in
[16:16] <zyga> QUESTION: will juju have an API?
[16:17] <jcastro> zyga: it does. :)
[16:17] <zyga> (for doing stuff like querying the state of the system, doing actions?)
[16:17] <zyga> jcastro: in go?
[16:17] <jcastro> the juju gui is an api client
[16:17] <zyga> the provider is the API?
[16:17] <jcastro> zyga: when we finish this topic I can have someone walk you through it
[16:17] <zyga> jcastro: is there an API that I can call instead of shelling out to 'juju deploy foo'
[16:18] <zyga> ok
[16:18] <zyga> thanks
[16:18] <mattyw> zyga, it has one for querying and doing actions, rogpeppe is the guy I go to with all my api questions
[16:18] <zyga> rogpeppe: is that a web/http api or some lang-specific API? are there python3 bindings?
[16:19] <zyga> amezing 30 minutes for who, what is the target audience?
[16:20] <jcastro> that is a good question
[16:20] <jcastro> I am assuming a new user
[16:20] <mattyw> zyga, there's an experimental python binding here: https://launchpad.net/python-jujuclient, not sure how it would work under python 3
[16:20] <zyga> one that has 1000 servers or one that plays around with some django app and want to run it
[16:21] <zyga> that's not a great story (I'm not whining, just stating the obvious), it's alpha and python is super-popular, juju should have a mature API for java/python/ruby whatever
[16:22] <rogpeppe> i keep on getting kicked out, sorry
[16:22] <jcastro> zyga: /me nods
[16:24] <zyga> QUESTION: as a juju novice user I often got into a state where I could basically not fix my setup and I had to juju destroy, if that was real production stuff I'd loose data. I think we should have a good troubleshooting section on the page so that when people make mistakes during the first 30 minutes, they have a place to go to with simple answers
[16:24] <zyga> (and that's not a question)
[16:24] <jcastro> oooh, good one
[16:24] <jcastro> let me write that one down
[16:24] <jcastro> zyga: keep the tips coming!
[16:26] <zyga> last thing I can think about is a way to deploy juju on one machine (probably openstack) that I have spare so that I can evaluate it for 30 days in my company/whatever (so no public cloud) and still survive reboots/whatever that lxc is not suitable for)
[16:27] <jcastro> yes
[16:27] <zyga> I personally had great issues to deploy openstack on a dedicated machine to get started with juju and I failed in the end
[16:27] <jcastro> we call that manual provisioning
[16:27] <jcastro> someone is working on that now
[16:27] <zyga> (I've installed esxi and I didn't use juju in the end)
[16:27] <jcastro> so you can just say "Deploy to this box" or "deploy to this linode via ssh"
[16:27] <zyga> or, can juju consume vmware ;) ?
[16:27] <jcastro> not yet
[16:27] <jcastro> but yeah, we want to support all the things
[16:27] <zyga> jcastro: actually having a one-iso-one-machine openstack might be good enough, creating a 'ssh juju provider' might be different target
[16:28] <jcastro> yeah so we have a bundle for openstack-on-one-machine
[16:28] <jcastro> but it didn't work for me but we're working on it
[16:28] <natefinch> for the record... searching for specific charms on jujucharms is pretty bad
[16:29] <zyga> there is devstack but devstack is not something I want to run for a long time on that one machine
[16:29] <zyga> I want one, non-redundant juju-ready openstac with ubuntu sticker on it
[16:29] <zyga> openstack machine
[16:30] <natefinch> the search seems to require exact name matches (post won't bring up postgres)
[16:30] <zyga> one last thing I can think of is how to manage my juju setup
[16:30] <zyga> like, I got it working
[16:30] <zyga> but what's next
[16:30] <zyga> how do I keep them up to date
[16:30] <zyga> how do I monitor
[16:30] <zyga> scale up or down
[16:30] <zyga> fix them when they break (can I recycle from juju so that I don't have to?)
[16:31] <zyga> how to stream out data backups from postgres charm so that I can feel safe if juju fails for me?
[16:32] <rogpeppe> i think there's a big gap between juju user and juju charm developer
[16:32] <natefinch> the search should be really really permissive.... because if I search and my thing doesn't come up... there's no way for me to know that I filtered out the charm, and not that juju simply doesn't have that charm
[16:32] <rogpeppe> i wouldn't hope to go anywhere near charm developer in the first 30 mins
[16:32] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I agree
[16:33] <rogpeppe> provider configuration is something we're actively working on
[16:34] <zyga> lxc + laptop =  fail if your laptop cannot suspend
[16:34] <zyga> I've been there, I didn't use juju for 6 months because of that
[16:34] <mattyw> rogpeppe, I think that only applies to "proper charms". I don't see a reason why we couldn't get new users writing simple useful charms in the first 30 mins
[16:34] <natefinch> zyga: only if you care about things sticking around
[16:34] <natefinch> zyga: it still gives you a really good demo
[16:34] <zyga> natefinch: well, yeah, because I'm in the middle of something when I suspend
[16:34] <zyga> natefinch: I had issues with being able to use that as a replacement for vagrant infrastructure
[16:35] <zyga> natefinch: in the end, since lxc didn't work, I couldn't use that at all
[16:35] <zyga> natefinch: dev environment for learning and hacking on my stuff
[16:35] <natefinch> zyga: yeah, we definitely need a way to say "just deploy to x specific IP address".  I think this is something we're working on with the manual provider
[16:35] <zyga> if lxc is local than defaulting to something like apt-cacher-ng would also improve the user experience
[16:36] <zyga> natefinch: I don't undrestand how that relates to my problem with being able to 'stop' and 'start' my lxc setup after I power cycle
[16:37] <natefinch> zyga: this would be a replacement. lxc is for demoing and trying things out. The manual provider is a way to actually deploy something to production that'll stick around (like to a VPS)
[16:37] <zyga> natefinch: I think that VPS is a very good use case but non-persistence of lxc is still an issue, at least for the way I was working
[16:39] <natefinch> zyga: I'm not an LXC expert, so I'm not sure if that's a limitation of LXC or if we can get around it.
[16:40] <arosales> utlemming, if you have a spare minute could you join us?
[16:40] <arosales> utlemming, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/99da97cc46e64f09fbbdebfe4fc6aa0aaa2f5440?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:40] <utlemming> arosales: link?
[16:41] <rogpeppe> what about a plugin, say "juju demo-bootstrap" ?
[16:41] <natefinch> why not bundle the gui with juju always? What's the drawback?  A few kb download?
[16:42] <rogpeppe> natefinch: the issue is whether we automatically deploy the gui charm
[16:42] <natefinch> rogpeppe: what's the drawback to always doing it?
[16:43] <rogpeppe>  currently there's no way of saying "bootstrap-and-deploy-this-charm" in one step
[16:43] <natefinch> rogpeppe: we could just make it part of bootstrap
[16:43] <zyga> mac stuff: how do I get an osx instance?
[16:44] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it might use more resources than we want (though i don't know dependency and runtime requirements of the gui)
[16:44] <marcoceppi> having computer issues. will participate from orc
[16:45] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it *seems* like a nice idea, but it's a significant step, so worth discussing more
[16:45] <marcoceppi> make a plug in. juju guistrap
[16:46] <marcoceppi> bootstrap + deply --to
[16:47] <m_3> marcoceppi: nice
[16:47] <marcoceppi> zyga: you don't. juju only deploys to Ubuntu servers. you can use the juju CLI tool on Mac osx though
[16:48] <zyga> I meant for testing!
[16:49] <zyga> for having a osx vm to see how osx users experience juju
[16:49] <zyga> (this also affects sdk)
[16:49] <marcoceppi> zyga: ah! my bad
[16:49] <natefinch> +1 on troubleshooting guide
[16:49] <zyga> heroku has website stuff to manage stuff
[16:49] <zyga> I mean, what kind of widgets/
[16:50] <zyga> the cli is also slick with a lot of smart stuff (easy on the front, complex on the back)
[16:51] <arosales> marcoceppi, can you ping here if we have missed any IRC comments / questions?
[16:51] <marcoceppi> arosales: ack
[16:54] <arosales> marcoceppi, thanks
[16:54]  * arosales looked at the backscroll but not sure if we missed any questions or comment
[16:54] <natefinch> the first 30 minutes needs to be *easy* .... fewest barriers to entry possible.
[16:54] <arosales> if folks have any remaining questions/comments please ping me
[16:54] <natefinch> arosales: searching on jujucharms is kinda poor... it's easy to think there's no charm for something if you don't type your search exactly right
[16:55] <arosales> natefinch, noted, and I'll bring it up before we close
[16:55] <natefinch> arosales: thanks
[16:55] <arosales> I think gary_poster and folks are working on better searching . . .
[16:55] <gary_poster> if that means SEO then yes
[16:56] <natefinch> arosales: cool.... one thing that would make a big difference is just not filtering by defaulty
[16:56] <arosales> gary_poster, not seo but searching for charms in general
[16:56] <arosales>  per natefinch feedback above
[16:56] <gary_poster> natefinch, try http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/ for me and give me thoughts on that search?
[16:57] <natefinch> gary_poster: looks better... it's a little odd that search results are in a dropdown... but not just a list of charms
[16:58] <natefinch> gary_poster: but definitely much better
[16:58] <natefinch> gary_poster: false positives are way better than false negartives
[16:58] <natefinch> gary_poster: I know if something is not right, I can't know if something didn't show up
[16:59] <zyga> put juju on github
[16:59] <zyga> seriously
[16:59] <mattyw> m_3, jcastro are we/ can we schedule a session for improving the charm development ux?
[16:59] <marcoceppi> arosales: ^
[17:00] <gary_poster> natefinch ack and thanks very much.  I'll share the feedback.
[17:00] <natefinch> gary_poster: thanks for listening :)
[17:00] <natefinch> gary_poster: not entirely happy that the filters are hidden by default... it wasn't clear my search results were being filtered
[17:01] <natefinch> gary_poster: maybe some visual indication that the filter if excluding things
[17:01] <natefinch> gary_poster: if the filter is excluding things that is
[17:02] <mattyw> jcastro, I'll pop along to next weeks charmers meeting
[17:03] <gary_poster> natefinch, ack.  good news is that filter will go away and instead we will always show reviewed charms above unreviewed charms, with no other filters.  We will add filters back when we think they add more value.  However, the filter will still exclude unreviewed charms from fast search: they will only show up when you get the full list
[17:03] <natefinch> gary_poster: awesome, that sounds perfect
[17:03] <gary_poster> cool thanks natefinch
[17:10] <mattyw> zyga, if you aren't already you should stick around the #juju channel
[17:40] <jcastro> indeed
[17:59] <arosales> Next session starting in a few minutes
[17:59] <arosales> Hangout URL is https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c027f154f35e574c6499dfe24ebbf337435e5616?authuser=0&hl=en
[17:59] <arosales> Session: Document Charm Relations/Interfaces: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21966/servercloud-s-juju-charm-relation-doc/
[18:00] <zyga> mattyw: thanks for the tip, I will add it to my lurk list
[18:00] <arosales> marcoceppi, m_3  I think you guys are core participants on this one
[18:03] <marcoceppi> arosales: yeah
[18:06] <arosales> m_3, you available?
[18:07] <arosales> paging Dr. Mims, paging Dr. Mims
[18:13] <arosales> pad http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-servercloud-s-juju-charm-relation-doc
[18:40]  * marcoceppi watches
[18:41] <marcoceppi> laptop is over heating
[18:55] <kurt_____> who is talking?
[18:56] <arosales> kurt_____, that was utlemming
[18:57] <arosales> and myself
[18:57] <kurt_____> thanks


[02:22] <afuentes> hey godbyk
[02:23] <godbyk> Hey, afuentes.
[02:23] <godbyk> I took a look a the Galician translation and it looks like there are still some build errors.
[02:23] <godbyk> I looked through my email and I don't think I've heard back from the Galician translation editor for a number of months.
[02:24] <afuentes> Yeah, it was a long time ago I think
[02:24] <afuentes> I just wanted to pick up wherever its left to make it build
[02:26] <afuentes> Im not really sure what happened but they already made the complete manual available here http://ubuntu.usc.es/manual/index/descargas
[02:26] <godbyk> The two errors that it shows me right now are:
[02:27] <godbyk> 1. Glossary entry `área de notificación' has not been defined.
[02:27] <godbyk> This means that they've written \gls{área de notificación} at some point. They shouldn't translate the \gls and \glspl commands.
[02:28] <godbyk> 2. File ended while scanning use of \button.
[02:28] <godbyk> This means that they wrote \button{Some text here and then they forgot the closing brace.
[02:28] <godbyk> Let me see if I can find the context of the \button error.
[02:30] <godbyk> Ah, search for: \item Prema no botón \button{Aplicar
[02:30] <godbyk> That's the end of the line. It looks like the text was cut off or something.
[02:48] <afuentes> Ill take a look at it on monday godbyk
[02:48] <afuentes> can you tell me whats left with spanish translation?
[02:50] <godbyk> I think the Spanish translation is pretty far along, too, if I remember correctly. Let me look.
[02:50] <afuentes> thanks godbyk :)
[02:52] <godbyk> It looks like the lucid-e1 edition has just 6 strings that need review.
[02:52] <godbyk> The lucid-e2 edition has under 200 strings that need translating and the same that need reviewed.
[02:53] <godbyk> I'm checking my email to see if anyone's talked to me about the Spanish translation..
[02:53] <afuentes> im checking that
[02:53] <afuentes> maybe we can finish it right now :)
[02:55] <godbyk> I see a lot of people have asked about a Spanish translation, but I'm not finding much else.
[02:55] <godbyk> I don't have anyone listed as the translation editor for Spanish, either.
[02:55] <afuentes> how can i find the 6 lines that need to be reviewed
[02:55] <afuentes> I see
[02:57] <godbyk> You should be able to translate/review them here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/+translate
[02:58] <godbyk> (that's for lucid-e1.)
[02:58] <afuentes> i am there, but how can i filter them out?
[02:58] <godbyk> I'm not much of an expert at Launchpad's translation tool.  (I try to stay away from there so I don't accidentally break something and anger the translators. :-))
[02:59] <godbyk> Try this:
[02:59] <godbyk> In the "Translating" dropdown box, select 'items with new suggestions'.
[02:59] <godbyk> Then click the Change button.
[02:59] <godbyk> On my screen, it shows 8 results then.
[03:00] <godbyk> I think those are the ones that need review or translation.
[03:00] <afuentes> k
[03:00] <afuentes> i can do that right now
[03:00] <godbyk> Cool.
[03:01] <godbyk> If you let me know when you're finished, I can grab the latest translation (though it takes a while for Launchpad to send it to me) and build the PDF.
[03:01] <godbyk> Then folks can start proofreading the PDF.
[03:03] <afuentes> mmm godbyk im not an expert at the launchpad translation thing either :/
[03:03] <afuentes> It only allows me to make a suggestion
[03:04] <afuentes> but i cant review or anything
[03:04] <afuentes> is that an editor's job or ...?
[03:06] <godbyk> Oh, I think you may have to be a member of the translation team or of the ubuntu-manual team or somesuch.
[03:07] <godbyk> Let me poke around a bit. (It's been forever since I've looked at Launchpad's translation stuff.)
[03:07] <godbyk> Okay, it's set up with "structured" permissions, which means:
[03:07] <godbyk> Structured: if your project's translation group has assigned an individual or team to a particular language, only that person or members of that team can review and accept translation strings for that language. Anyone can suggest a translation for those languages, though. For languages that aren't covered by a translation group, anyone can directly submit a translation.
[03:08] <godbyk> The translations are owned by the Ubuntu Translators.
[03:08] <afuentes> I see, I send a request to join the group but approval is needed
[03:08] <afuentes> sent*
[03:09] <afuentes> I get this moving on monday I guess then :/
[03:09] <godbyk> Sounds good.
[03:09] <godbyk> Thanks for your help, afuentes!
[03:10] <afuentes> ^^
[03:10] <afuentes> im off to bed
[03:10] <afuentes> byebye
[03:10] <godbyk> G'night.
[04:18] <Captainkrtek> hey guys
[04:21] <Captainkrtek> meeting tomorrow right?
[05:41] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Yep.
[05:41] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Sunday at 19:00 UTC.
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> will be there :)
[05:42] <godbyk> I look forward to seeing you.
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> you as well
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> the maverick string freeze is today right?
[05:43] <godbyk> Yep.
[05:43] <godbyk> Well, it'll probably actually be tomorrow, but you should get any changes put in tonight if you can.
[05:43] <godbyk> I've been going through and making some last-minute changes.
[05:44] <Captainkrtek> anything need to be reviewed?
[05:44] <Captainkrtek> I got some freetime
[05:45] <godbyk> Yeah.
[05:45] <Captainkrtek> tell me what pages, ill take a look :-)
[05:45] <godbyk> There were a couple files that got merged in after I'd made changes.
[05:45] <godbyk> We should probably skim over them to make sure they merged cleanly.
[05:45] <godbyk> Let me find the files.
[05:45] <Captainkrtek> okay
[05:46] <godbyk> It was the installation chapter and one other.
[05:47] <godbyk> The merge would've happened during r135 of the maverick branch.
[05:47] <godbyk> As long as the diff for that revision looks sensible, we should be okay.
[05:52] <Captainkrtek> okay
[05:52] <Captainkrtek> anything else?
[05:52] <Captainkrtek> any pages that need to be looked at other than that merge?
[05:53] <godbyk> I don't know if there's anything in particular.
[05:53] <godbyk> I'd say just poke around fix any typos you find.
[05:53] <godbyk> (It seems like there's always one more spelling or grammar error!)
[05:54] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[05:54] <Captainkrtek> will do! Ill be around all night, so just PM me if you find any work needing attention :-)
[05:55] <godbyk> Will do!  Thanks for the offer.
[05:55] <Captainkrtek> no problem
[06:07] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: when does the book go on sale
[07:01] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: r135 looks good :-) nice work!
[07:06] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: found a bug
[07:06] <Captainkrtek> pg 109
[07:06] <Captainkrtek> check the sidebar
[07:36] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Nice catch.  I'll be going through the manual tomorrow to move the margin notes and figures around.
[07:36] <godbyk> After that, I'll generate the final PDFs and upload them to ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com.
[07:36] <godbyk> Then I'll generate the .pot file for the translators.
[07:36] <godbyk> Then I'll setup the natty branch.
[07:37] <godbyk> But right now, I'm headed to bed. :)
[07:38] <Captainkrtek> im almost done
[07:38] <Captainkrtek> just reviewed all of displays.tex
[07:38] <Captainkrtek> found some grammatical and wording issues
[19:39] <Captainkrtek> meeting soon?
[19:40] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Yep. About 20 minutes.
[19:41] <ChrisWoollard> evening godbyk
[19:41] <godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
[19:42] <ChrisWoollard> I am going to update the credits quickly
[19:42] <godbyk> 'kay.
[19:42] <godbyk> Hey, rickfosb
[19:42] <rickfosb> hey godbyk
[19:43] <ChrisWoollard> evening
[19:43] <Captainkrtek> k
[19:43] <rickfosb> I'm not at my desk today;  so I don't have access to most of my 'stuff'...
[19:43] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: I fixed that one margin note
[19:43] <rickfosb> how is everyone
[19:44] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Ah, great. Thanks!  There are some more that I need to fix, too, but that's one of the last edits I make (as other edits can cause the margin notes to move about).
[19:44] <Captainkrtek> check my last commit
[19:45] <godbyk> Which one?
[19:46] <Captainkrtek> umm hold on :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
[19:46] <Captainkrtek> synergy is making my keyboard mess up
[19:46] <Captainkrtek> sorry :P
[19:47] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/maverick/revision/138
[19:48] <rickfosb> godbyk: stepping away for a moment.  be right back.
[19:49] <ChrisWoollard> Does anybody know what Rrohit's actual name is?
[19:49] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Ah, yep. That's fine.  The optional [-4\baselineskip] argument was telling LaTeX to move the margin note up four lines.  So if it was too high, you could remove it (like you did) or adjust it manually if LaTeX's automatic placement wasn't very good.
[19:50] <Captainkrtek> gotcha :)
[19:50] <Captainkrtek> still learning LaTeX
[19:50] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'm not sure: https://launchpad.net/~rr0hit
[19:51] <Captainkrtek> UndiFineD: already got that survey in a few thousand twitter feeds
[19:51] <Captainkrtek> mostly developers
[19:51] <godbyk> brb. (preparing lunch)
[19:51] <UndiFineD> yeah
[19:51] <UndiFineD> I am hoping for some 12000 responses
[19:51] <Captainkrtek> Ill promote the hell out of it again haha
[19:55] <patrickdickey> Hi everyone. :)
[19:56] <rickfosb_> I'm back (sort of)
[19:58] <Captainkrtek> hi patrickdickey
[20:00] <rickfosb_> Hi hannie
[20:00] <hannie> hi ChrisWoollard godbyk rickfosb_ piratemurray
[20:00] <UndiFineD> o/
[20:01] <hannie> hi UndiFineD
[20:01] <godbyk> Hey, hannie.
[20:01] <Captainkrtek> hey guys
[20:01] <ChrisWoollard> Hello Hannie
[20:01] <UndiFineD> hannie, did you get to listen to all those sessions already ?
[20:01] <godbyk> We'll wait a couple minutes for others to show up and then get started.
[20:01] <piratemurray> hello everyone!
[20:01] <hannie> UndiFineD, no
[20:01] <UndiFineD> :P
[20:01] <piratemurray> how are we all today?
[20:02] <hannie> "We" are fine, thank you
[20:02] <UndiFineD> thanks hannie noI know how I feel
[20:03] <hannie> lol
[20:03] <Captainkrtek> me as well ;)
[20:03] <Captainkrtek> here is the agenda for today: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KvXHj1XROp
[20:04] <piratemurray> quick question before we start
[20:04] <piratemurray> do we have a twitter hash tag?
[20:05] <Captainkrtek> piratemurray: for what?
[20:05] <piratemurray> so i can do some promotion
[20:05] <Captainkrtek> piratemurray: RT me https://twitter.com/#!/Captainkrtek/status/69836680328261632
[20:05] <piratemurray> drum up some interest amougst friends and twitter in general
[20:05] <Captainkrtek> I already got some big people to Rt me
[20:05] <Captainkrtek> i have ~500 followers
[20:06] <godbyk> piratemurray: I don't think we have a hash tag, but we do have a twitter feed: @TheUbuntuManual
[20:06] <ChrisWoollard> & identi.ca
[20:06] <piratemurray> okie dokie thanks!
[20:07] <Captainkrtek> 31 clicks on the link so far
[20:07] <godbyk> Okay, let's get started.
[20:07] <godbyk> #startmeeting
[20:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:07. The chair is godbyk.
[20:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:07] <godbyk> Something I forgot to do last time that I'd like to do this time 'round:
[20:07] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Attendance
[20:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Attendance
[20:07] <ChrisWoollard> o/
[20:07] <godbyk> Give a shout if you're here.
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> Shout!
[20:07] <ChrisWoollard> Boo
[20:07] <patrickdickey> Shout!!
[20:08] <rickfosb_> Hey!
[20:08] <Captainkrtek> hola
[20:08] <godbyk> Thanks! Makes it a bit easier when we're writing up the meeting minutes. :)
[20:08] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick status: string freeze
[20:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick status: string freeze
[20:09] <UndiFineD> Boo
[20:09] <godbyk> Yesterday was our scheduled string freeze for the Maverick edition.
[20:09] <godbyk> We're still sneaking in a few last-minute changes today.
[20:09] <ChrisWoollard> Ooops. I commited a few minutes ago
[20:09] <Captainkrtek> Im still looking for anymore margin errors
[20:10] <rickfosb_> Did we get all the #todo screenshots?
[20:10] <hannie> Can Maverick be downloaded now (pdf, book)?
[20:10] <godbyk> Once the text has been finalized, I'll make a few last-minute adjustments (to margin notes and screenshots) and publish the PDFs on the ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com sites.
[20:10] <Captainkrtek> I had one thing to bring up
[20:10] <ChrisWoollard> I have a copy if you want it
[20:10] <piratemurray> shout out!
[20:10] <Captainkrtek> in the troubleshooting guide it mentions setting screen resolution, when that is already in the Displays section
[20:11] <Captainkrtek> and it seems more in depth in the troublshooting guide
[20:11] <Captainkrtek> including pictures and such
[20:11] <patrickdickey> Should those be flipped (the more in depth being in the Display section)?
[20:11] <Captainkrtek> yeah that is what I was thinking, or say (see page whatever)
[20:12] <godbyk> Hmm.. It's probably a bit late to flip them for this edition, but it's something we can do in the Natty edition.
[20:12] <Captainkrtek> it's not a major issue, just odd to have more in depth in the troubleshooting section
[20:12] <Captainkrtek> what about moving the pics from the troubleshooting section to the displays section?
[20:13] <godbyk> I don't want to move things around at this point (because it may cause margin notes and screenshots to move around a bunch more and that can be bothersome).
[20:13] <Captainkrtek> okay, understandable
[20:13] <Captainkrtek> just an idea
[20:13] <godbyk> But we can certainly straighten that out in the next edition.
[20:13] <Captainkrtek> great :-)
[20:14] <rickfosb_> Agree with godbyk
[20:14] <Captainkrtek> this is my first time working on ubuntu-manual, so still learning the ropes ;-)
[20:14] <godbyk> Any other comments or show-stopper bugs that anyone has found?
[20:14] <Captainkrtek> Im going to look for more margin errors
[20:14] <rickfosb_> Captainkrtek: should I put you down to address in the natty branch?
[20:15] <Captainkrtek> rickfosb_: sure
[20:15] <rickfosb_> Thanks!
[20:15] <Captainkrtek> you can assign it as a bug to me: https://launchpad.net/~steven.richards
[20:15] <rickfosb_> K
[20:15] <Captainkrtek> thanks!
[20:15] <godbyk> Does anyone have any pending changes on their hard drives that need to be committed?
[20:16] <Captainkrtek> let me check
[20:16] <godbyk> This is the final call for edits. :)
[20:16] <rickfosb_>  none here.
[20:16] <ChrisWoollard> nope
[20:16] <Captainkrtek> none her
[20:16] <Captainkrtek> here*
[20:16] <ChrisWoollard> The credits - Team leads could do with a review
[20:16] <patrickdickey> nothing.
[20:17] <rickfosb_> ChrisWoollard: were you using bzr stats for that?  or do you need more?
[20:18] <ChrisWoollard> I used bzr committer-statistics for the editors only.
[20:18] <rickfosb_> k
[20:18] <ChrisWoollard> I haven't touched authors either
[20:18] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think we can continue to modify the credits section for a little bit as it doesn't impact anything else.
[20:19] <rickfosb_> I know we discussed this on last meeting; I'll review the log, but believe we were not going to make any deletions, and just ensure we have the particpants noted.
[20:19] <godbyk> Before I actually generate the .pot file, I'm going to be tweaking the placement of some of the screenshots and margin notes, so there will be a few formatting changes that enter in yet.
[20:20] <Captainkrtek> oh one other thing, how is the index compiled?
[20:20] <rickfosb_> godbyk: what's your target for having the .pot ready?  (just for my notes)
[20:20] <Captainkrtek> I had one other pade to reference VLC
[20:20] <Captainkrtek> page*
[20:20] <godbyk> rickfosb_: I should have the .pot file generated sometime in the next day or two.
[20:21] <rickfosb_> k. thanks
[20:21] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: The index is pretty skimpy in the maverick edition. That's something else I'd like to improve in the natty edition.
[20:21] <Captainkrtek> okay great
[20:21] <godbyk> Any other comments, questions, concerns, or complaints about the maverick string freeze?
[20:22] <Captainkrtek> none here
[20:22] <hannie> no questions
[20:22] <rickfosb_> Target for listing it on the manual site?
[20:22] <patrickdickey> nothing here. I'm making the latest version right now.
[20:23] <godbyk> rickfosb_: As soon as I've finalized the .pot file, I'll generate the PDFs and upload them to ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com.
[20:23] <Captainkrtek> awesome
[20:23] <rickfosb_> Fantastic!
[20:23] <piratemurray> grand
[20:23] <Captainkrtek> good work to everyone :)
[20:23] <godbyk> At the same time, the .pot file will get uploaded to Launchpad.
[20:23] <hannie> Will the file (final version) be imported in Launchpad?
[20:23] <godbyk> (At which point, I'll brace for the flood of angry emails from our translators because Launchpad will undoubtedly screw something up and wreak havoc on existing translations.)
[20:24] <hannie> Sorry, too late
[20:24] <godbyk> And speaking of translators...
[20:24] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Status of translations
[20:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status of translations
[20:25] <Captainkrtek> nice transition ;)
[20:25] <godbyk> The Lithuanian translation of lucid-e2 should be published soon.
[20:25] <Captainkrtek> I may be able to recruit some people to translate it into Czech and Slovak
[20:25] <godbyk> They're the first team to translate the second edition.
[20:25] <hannie> We, the Dutch team, will translate the Natty version
[20:26] <Infosoft> Heh, because we've dropped lucid-e1... :)
[20:26] <godbyk> We hit a few snags along the way (as I didn't have everything setup for the second edition translations and some of the TeX packages had been changed in the meantime), but it's looking good now.
[20:26] <godbyk> hannie: Cool.
[20:26] <godbyk> There is still ongoing work with the lucid-e1 translations, as well.
[20:27] <godbyk> So we may see some translated editions of lucid-e1 in the coming weeks, too.
[20:28] <godbyk> If there are other translation teams that have been working on the Ubuntu Manual and have any questions or have run into problems related to LaTeX—or if you have questions about the publishing process—please let me know.
[20:28] <rickfosb> Are we still on target for activating the Natty branch this week? (connection dropped again, sorry for the name change)
[20:28] <hannie> godbyk, we intend to make people responsible for a certain chapter
[20:28] <godbyk> rickfosb: Yep.  Right after the Maverick edition is published, I'll copy the source files over to the natty branch.
[20:28] <hannie> like you do with authors
[20:29] <godbyk> hannie: Cool.  You'll have to let us know how that technique works out for you.
[20:29] <hannie> I will
[20:29] <rickfosb> Our calendar said 21st of the month for Natty so, looks like we are on target.  Thanks
[20:29] <Captainkrtek> good to hear
[20:30] <godbyk> That's everything that's on this meeting's agenda.
[20:30] <godbyk> [TOPIC] Any other business
[20:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
[20:31] <godbyk> Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
[20:31] <ChrisWoollard> that was quick
[20:31] <Captainkrtek> do we have anything to discuss related to UDS?
[20:31] <rickfosb> I'm trying to make up for last meeting...  :-)
[20:31] <hannie> How will the contact between author/editor be realised?
[20:31] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: There were a few Ubuntu docs sessions as UDS-O.  I wasn't able to attend them, but they have posted some notes online.
[20:32] <godbyk> (Notes that I haven't had time to read yet, but will.)
[20:32] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: I could look over those notes if you find a link
[20:32] <godbyk> Sure, let me dig them up for you.
[20:32] <Captainkrtek> thanks
[20:32] <Captainkrtek> I could do a summary of the notes as a blueprint
[20:32] <godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-ubuntu-docs-goals-oneiric/
[20:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-ubuntu-docs-goals-oneiric/
[20:32] <godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo/
[20:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo/
[20:32] <godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy/
[20:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy/
[20:32] <godbyk> Those are the ones I'm aware of.
[20:33] <rickfosb> hannie: I can facilitate the link up between author and editor.  I'll start some emails this week to see if we can get that started.
[20:33] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: If you summarize them, just post the summary to the list.
[20:33] <Captainkrtek> will do
[20:33] <hannie> rickfosb, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know
[20:33] <piratemurray> i take it there is no need to talk about natty for now? just that the first milestone is next week?
[20:34] <hannie> rickfosb, if you need any help in bringing people together, just let me know
[20:34] <godbyk> piratemurray: The natty branch will be active later this week so people can start editing the text there.
[20:34] <rickfosb> all:  I'll also take a look at the teams again, and split up the work a little more as needed so we don't have multiple personalities writing the same paragraph.  ;)
[20:34] <godbyk> I'll post an email to the list once it's ready.
[20:34] <rickfosb> hanne: thanks will do!
[20:35] <rickfosb> hannie*
[20:35] <godbyk> Anything else?
[20:36] <Captainkrtek> im going to start summarizing the notes
[20:36] <rickfosb> nothing here.
[20:36] <godbyk> Okay, then.  Have a nice day/evening/night, then!
[20:36] <godbyk> #endmeeting
[20:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:36.
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks godbyk
[20:36] <Captainkrtek> :)
[20:36] <Captainkrtek> you as well
[20:37] <rickfosb> gobyk: thanks again!
[20:37] <piratemurray> thanks everyone!
[20:37] <godbyk> rickfosb: No problem.
[20:37] <piratemurray> bye now
[20:37] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[20:37] <rickfosb> godbyk: thanks
[20:37] <Captainkrtek> Ill have the notes in all of your inboxes within the hour
[20:37] <patrickdickey> Have a great week everyone :)
[20:37] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I didn't see any mention of the developer manual in any of those notes.
[20:38] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[20:38] <hannie> see you all next time
[20:38] <rickfosb> gotta bale.  y'all be good... see you during the week.
[20:38] <ChrisWoollard> why do i get the felling it has died
[20:40] <UndiFineD> ChrisWoollard, well I assume it also depends on #quickly
[20:40] <ChrisWoollard> yes it does
[20:41] <ChrisWoollard> nothing has happend to that has it?
[20:41] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: you still around?
[20:41] <godbyk> Yep, I'm here.
[20:42] <UndiFineD> I think quickly itself is still much development, hard to write something with good workflow that is still very much moved around
[20:42] <Captainkrtek> what if we compiled a version   for kindle?
[20:42] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I haven't heard boo about it lately, either.
[20:42] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: That's on my to do list.  I have to sort out a bunch of stuff first, though.
[20:42] <Captainkrtek> okay, ill throw that in the notes though
[20:43] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: To really do the ebook thing right, I think we'll end up having to switch from LaTeX to Docbook (or some other format) as the base format.
[20:43] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[20:49] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: do we have a role of Proofreader for the manual?
[20:50] <Captainkrtek> cause I've done Q&A work in the past for a major technology company in regards to their KB
[20:50] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: Nope. That's what the editors do.
[20:50] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[20:50] <Captainkrtek> just thinking in terms of someone as a point of contact for Q&A
[20:50] <Captainkrtek> maybe organize the edit process to be more efficient
[20:52] <godbyk> The chapter editors and editor in chief are supposed to help out there.
[20:52] <godbyk> But if you're interested in proofreading, I don't think anyone would object to you proofreading their work.
[20:52] <Captainkrtek> ahh forgot about editor in chief, whoops :P
[20:55] <Captainkrtek> hi c7p
[20:55] <c7p> hey all :)
[20:56] <godbyk> Hey, c7p.
[20:56] <godbyk> Hope you're not here for the meeting. :)
[20:57] <Captainkrtek> godbyk<EMAIL_ADDRESS>right?
[20:57] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: yeah.
[20:58] <c7p> godbyk: i couldn't be there for meeting, i just enter the room to see what's going on :D
[20:58] <godbyk> c7p: Ah, 'kay. Otherwise, you're an hour late. :)
[20:59] <c7p> is the meeting over ?
[21:00] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[21:00] <Captainkrtek> it ended about 20 minutes ago
[21:00] <tomswartz07> of course, right when i join. haha
[21:00] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[21:00] <Captainkrtek> the whole meeting is online (godbyk?)
[21:00] <Captainkrtek> I think..
[21:00] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: yep.
[21:01] <Captainkrtek> k
[21:01] <tomswartz07> someone sends out the minutes too. cant remember who
[21:01] <godbyk> I'll probably scribble down some minutes a bit later and email them out.
[21:01] <c7p> thx for the info :)
[21:02] <c7p> do we have any new author assigned to chapters ?
[21:02] <Captainkrtek> Im about to send out the UDS-O notes in relation to Ubuntu-Manual
[21:02] <Captainkrtek> watch your inbox ;)
[21:03] <Captainkrtek> godbyk: sent
[21:06] <godbyk> Captainkrtek: thanks.
[21:06] <Captainkrtek> np
[21:07] <c7p> g2g guys -very busy schedule tomorrow-,  enjoy the rest of the day :)
[21:37] <ChrisWoollard> jenkins


[19:05] <rhpot1991> hey guys quick question, can I have my ubuntu email be something different than my<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:06]  * Myrtti has no idea
[19:08] <pleia2> no
[19:09] <pleia2> you can change your launchpad id, but I am not sure how that ends up impacting your @ubuntu.com forward (maybe it auto-updates when the generation script is run every few days?)
[19:09] <pleia2> I do quite like how debian does things with alioth, everyone is -guest until they become a developer, so then developers get the first pick of nice @debian.org names and aren't stuck with a name they never intended to use as an email address
[19:13] <rhpot1991> pleia2: ya I was hoping for one that matches my gmail so I could use it for professional matters if I chose to do so :)
[19:13] <rhpot1991> oh well I'll live with the one I got then
[19:17] <Pricey> rhpot1991: I believe if you change your launchpad id, it updates within a couple of days.
[19:17] <rhpot1991> Pricey: ya, I like my LP id though and don't really want to change that :)
[19:18] <Pricey> I can think of a nasty way that 'may' work.. but wouldn't suggest it.
[19:19] <Pricey> But I can imagine if you set it up how you want it, then add your @ubuntu.com as your primary launchpad email address, then change your launchpad id back (absolutely no idea how or why you would want to do this) then it wouldn't update your email address to your new lp id as it won't update anything if your email is an @ubuntu.com one in lp.
[19:19] <Pricey> That's nasty though. Probably won't work. Don't listen to me.
[19:19] <rhpot1991> heh, that seems like a bad idea
[19:19] <rhpot1991> and a good way to lose my ubuntu email


[00:20] <Flannel> Floodbots need tweaking
[01:04] <ivantis> hey ubuntu ops
[01:04] <ivantis> i am starting public logging of #ubuntu
[01:04] <PriceChild> ivantis: is this a question or a statement?
[01:05] <ivantis> do you mind that?
[01:05] <ivantis> question
[01:05] <ivantis> tell me if i should remove them
[01:06] <PriceChild> ivantis: Were you here yesterday?
[01:06] <ivantis> …
[01:06] <ivantis> yes
[01:06] <ivantis> why?
[01:09] <PriceChild> ivantis: you were wanting to create a new bot for #ubuntu?
[01:09] <ivantis> yeah
[01:09] <ivantis> that was me
[01:09] <ivantis> anyway
[01:09] <ivantis> the logs are at http://ubuntu.irclogs.space-lab.us
[01:10] <ivantis> tell me if you do not want them
[01:10] <nalioth> ivantis: we have log bots already, thanks
[01:10] <ivantis> i will remove them
[01:10] <nalioth> please do  :)
[01:10] <ivantis> okay
[01:10] <nalioth> and remove them from everywhere else you've not gained permission
[01:11] <ivantis> i sent out a message
[01:11] <ivantis> if a few users (not ops) say no, i remove them
[01:11] <nalioth> if the staff get complaints, they may be removed from the network  :(
[01:11] <Flannel> ivantis: What about the people who aren't active in the channels at those times?
[01:11] <nalioth> so make sure you have permission wherever you put them
[01:11] <PriceChild> ivantis: If you want to provide a logging service, I think it safer to make it 'opt-in' rather than 'opt-out'
[01:12] <ivantis> good idea
[01:12] <ivantis> still only in ##C++, #debian, #gnu, #kclug
[01:12] <ivantis> everyone else voted out
[01:13] <PriceChild> ivantis: there are a couple of articles on blog.freenode.net's archive about it.
[01:13] <ivantis> read em
[01:14] <nalioth> do the ops in those channels know about your bots, ivantis ?
[01:15] <ivantis> my bots?
[01:15] <ivantis> i dont have bots there
[01:15] <ivantis> i always ask
[01:15] <nalioth> ivantis: do those channels you listed know about your logging them?
[01:15] <nalioth> publicly?
[01:15] <nalioth> the ops there
[01:16] <ivantis> no one has said anything in #gnu since i said it
[01:16] <PriceChild> That is not the same.
[01:16] <ivantis> ##c++ and #debian people didnt seem to care
[01:16] <ivantis> they looked over them
[01:16] <ivantis> ill take off #gnu until i get a response
[01:17] <Flannel> ivantis: Again, lack of discussion isn't the same as consent.
[01:32] <Flannel> ivantis: As an example, 3/4s of the people talking in ##C++ right now weren't around at the time of your announcement.
[01:32] <ivantis> removed ##C++
[01:33] <Flannel> ivantis: This isn't about any particular channel, just the way you're going about the whole thing.
[01:33] <ivantis> yeah
[01:33] <ivantis> i have permission from the ones left now
[01:33] <PriceChild> ivantis: I think it best you stop them all until someone gives you permission. That someone being in charge of the channel.
[01:33] <ivantis> waiting in ##C++ and #kclug
[02:27] <nalioth> anyone catch the culprit?
[02:27] <Madpilot> we have all three FloodBots op'd up in #u
[02:28] <Madpilot> the D C C idiot?
[02:28] <Flannel> 18:26 -!- k2<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu
[02:28] <PriceChild> k2?
[02:28] <nalioth> i didn't get attacked
[02:28] <Flannel> he left with the exploit in his part message
[02:28] <Madpilot> k2<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:28] <nalioth> ah
[02:28] <PriceChild> quit message
[02:29] <nalioth> yeah, thanks
[03:01] <nalioth> netsplit
[03:01] <Flannel> just lag I think?
[03:01] <Flannel> Oh
[03:01] <Flannel> theres a netsplit
[03:04] <bazhang> wow
[03:04] <bazhang> like a five minute lag here
[03:55] <PriceChild> open week today i believe
[03:56] <Flannel> Monday, yes.
[04:01] <Madpilot> it's already Monday some places :)
[04:01] <Madpilot> oh-god-hundred Monday, but still Monday
[05:23] <Flannel> keep an eye out for oly562 in other channels
[05:47] <Flannel> Is it a full moon?
[05:50] <nalioth> no, just a quarter one
[05:50] <nalioth> people must be getting their practice in for month's end
[05:51] <Flannel> Practice is important.
[06:07] <ikonia> ivantis: is there a reason your still here ?
[06:19] <Flannel> Anyone with -offtopic awake?
[06:20] <Flannel> Howdy Madpilot
[06:20] <Madpilot> hi Flannel
[06:21] <nalioth> Flannel: i'm usually around
[06:21] <Madpilot> whee, intrepid decided to set my screen rez to something massive like 1600x1400...
[06:21] <Flannel> nalioth: I'll ping in an emergency, just like I could o-p-s in an emergency.  But I'd rather not have an emergency
[06:22] <nalioth> Flannel: good, since i'm going for a ride
[06:22] <Flannel> nalioth: well, Madpilot's here at the moment, I know he has -ot
[06:22] <Madpilot> trouble in -offtopic?
[06:22] <nalioth> Madpilot: no, he wants backup if he stirs some up  :P
[06:23] <Flannel> Madpilot: 4chan discussions.
[06:23] <Madpilot> sounds like fun
[06:23] <Madpilot> Flannel, you've got ops in ot, right?
[06:23] <Flannel> No
[06:23] <Flannel> Or I wouldn't need *you* ;)
[06:24] <Madpilot> No? It used to come free with #ubuntu ops, whether you wanted it or not
[06:24]  * Flannel thinks he put the wrong emphasis there. but whatever
[06:25] <Flannel> Madpilot: Yeah, not anymore.  And the ones who did have ops have slowly been dying off.
[06:25] <ubot3> In #ubuntu-cn, deaddummy said: !!!!idesperaso is so poor.......
[06:40] <Myrtti> hello lovelies ♥
[06:40] <Flannel> howdy Myrtti
[06:46] <Madpilot> morning Myrtti
[06:51] <Myrtti> ♥
[07:12] <Flannel> Hi driftwood, how can we help you?
[07:12] <driftwood> just got an odd message from ubottu thats all
[07:13] <driftwood> well may log off and ponder
[07:24] <Myrtti> back to bed to have a bit of shuteye...
[07:47] <nekostar> very well
[07:47] <nekostar> i'm back.
[07:47] <nekostar> are you ready to do the right thing?
[07:47] <Flannel> Howdy nekostar
[07:47] <Flannel> Question for you:  Why should we unban you?
[07:51] <nekostar> hm?
[07:51] <nekostar> we could start with a heavy handed banning in the first place.
[07:56] <nekostar> ~_~
[07:57] <Flannel> nekostar: Were you planning on finishing with anything?
[07:57] <nekostar> >
[07:57] <nekostar> ? *
[07:57] <nekostar> finishing what?
[07:57] <nekostar> what's there to finish
[07:57] <nekostar> all that was the other day - their all helped lol
[07:58] <Flannel> nekostar: "we could start with...
[07:58] <Flannel> nekostar: " usually implies you're not finished.
[07:58] <nekostar> oh
[07:58] <Flannel> I was just waiting for your full statement
[07:59] <nekostar> your actually paying attention to what i'm saying this time eh?
[07:59] <nekostar> wow
[07:59] <nekostar> no no need
[07:59] <Flannel> nekostar: I've never not paid attention to what you were saying.
[07:59] <nekostar> Flannel i wouldnt say that.
[07:59] <nekostar> either you were not listening or not capable of grasping what i was saying.
[07:59] <nekostar> either of which is kinda blah
[08:00] <Flannel> nekostar: The fact that I was paying attention is why I'm able to say that no, you wont be unbanned right now.  And if this attitude persists, it may be a long while before you are.  You should re-read the code of conduct, and IRC guidelines (or read them in the first place, if you haven't)
[08:00] <Flannel> nekostar: I can give you links to them if you'd like
[08:01] <nekostar> naw
[08:01] <nekostar> i'm already in the chan
[08:01] <nekostar> ^^
[08:01] <elkbuntu> really. prove it.
[08:01] <nekostar> ...
[08:01] <nekostar> gl with that lol
[08:01] <elkbuntu> i don't believe you.
[08:02] <nekostar> go find a troll to feed
[08:02] <elkbuntu> i'm already doing that. you really shouldnt speak with your mouth full.
[08:03] <nekostar> lulz
[08:03] <elkbuntu> ah, you're one of them.
[08:03] <inx> ?
[08:03] <Madpilot> hey inx - new nick?
[08:04] <elkbuntu> inx, not you.
[08:04] <inx> registered today
[08:04] <inx> Madpilot: ^^
[08:04] <inx> elkbuntu: ah OK :)
[08:04] <Madpilot> ah
[08:04] <inx> Madpilot: hadn't been used for five years, so
[08:05] <inx> grabbed it because of my INX project :)
[08:05] <Mez> !idle | nekostar
[08:05] <nekostar> ...
[08:05] <nekostar> Mez i'm not really quite done
[08:06] <inx> anyway just checking that it was grouped and so on
[08:06] <Mez> 08:06 <+Flannel> nekostar: The fact that I was paying attention is why I'm able to say that no, you wont be unbanned right now.  And if this attitude  persists, it may be a long while before you are.   Please leave, You have no further business here at this moment in time
[08:08] <nekostar> cheers btw elkbuntu - at least you can construct a decent sentance
[08:09] <nekostar> mez
[08:09] <nekostar> first yes i did lol
[08:09] <elkbuntu> unlike you, it seems.
[08:09] <Mez> E_SENTENCE_FRAGMENT
[08:09] <nekostar> Mez i'm capable, just not willing.
[08:09] <elkbuntu> yeah, sure.
[08:09] <elkbuntu> i believe you. millions would not.
[08:10] <Mez> hey, that's my phrase elky ;)
[08:10] <nekostar> @_@ millions :starz in eyez:
[08:10] <Madpilot> elkbuntu, is this a 48hr ban, or a longer one for nekostar?
[08:10] <elkbuntu> Madpilot, it's until he can prove that he's worth unbanning.
[08:11] <Madpilot> ah, one of those
[08:11] <nekostar> orly
[08:11] <Madpilot> don't think he's doing very well so far
[08:11] <Mez> grr
[08:11] <nekostar> see
[08:11] <nekostar> and there we are
[08:11] <Mez> /remove #ubuntu-ops nekostar As you've been told, your business is concluded here.
[08:11] <nekostar> now you know why i wasnt done Mez
[08:11] <elkbuntu> nekostar, you said yourself you are evading. prove to us that the evader can behave rationally and civilly.
[08:11] <nekostar> ?
[08:11] <nekostar> which bit?
[08:12] <nekostar> the part where i come in here and try to explain in the middle of the situation why the op is abusing his/her/it's powers?
[08:12] <Madpilot> this bit: <nekostar> i'm already in the chan
[08:12] <nekostar> or when i come in the next day, and ask nicely if your done with the bs?
[08:12] <elkbuntu> that bit.
[08:12] <nekostar> what does that have to do with this?
[08:12] <elkbuntu> nekostar, i think you fail to understand irony. i base this on your second last sentance.
[08:12] <Flannel> nekostar: You came in here and were given a simple question: Why should we unban you.  You didn't really answer said question, and actually gave us more reason to keep the ban.
[08:13] <elkbuntu> Flannel, i agree wholeheartedly.
[08:13] <nekostar> Flannel i completely disagree.
[08:14] <nekostar> i'm merely refusing to cater to your whim of me trying to apologize for doing something wrong.
[08:14] <nekostar> sure perhaps i was a bit hot headed yesterday
[08:14] <nekostar> but if i'm willing to go that far we should not stop till i receive an in chan apology from teh op involved
[08:14] <Madpilot> nekostar, you're doing a very poor job of proving you're more rational today
[08:14] <nekostar> lol
[08:14] <Flannel> nekostar: To be brutally honest, the continuance has almost nothing to do with whatever the original reason for your ban was, and more to do with your continued behavior which is out of line with the code of conduct.
[08:14] <nekostar> and your doing a really poor job of laying bait
[08:14] <Madpilot> Go away, come back in 48hrs or more.
[08:15] <nekostar> no.
[08:15] <nekostar> i wont be back in here.
[08:15] <nekostar> i'd just continue to evade, and one day the ban is gone.
[08:15] <nekostar> lol
[08:15] <Madpilot> begging for it, or begging for it?
[08:16] <elkbuntu> !staff | mind seeing if you can trace the evader from the /whowas or something?
[08:34] <Madpilot> need sleep. don't let the trolls bite.
[08:34]  * Flannel worries not about troll bites, only grues.
[08:55] <Myrtti> *yawn*
[09:29] <substr> hi
[09:29] <elkbuntu> they dont read minds.
[09:29] <substr> could someone please find out why i got banned from #kubuntu-de?
[09:31] <elkbuntu> when and what nick were you using at the time?
[09:32] <substr> about ten minutes ago i've been on the channel with this nick (substr)
[09:32] <Myrtti> usually loco channel bans are dealt in #ubuntu-irc
[09:32] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, sorry, i didnt notice the -de part
[09:33] <substr> well, next channel to ask in.. ;)
[09:33] <elkbuntu> i brought him here from #freenode. it'd be why you're not appearing in our bantracking system though
[09:34] <Myrtti> :-/
[09:49] <elkbuntu> odd thought... can wubi run in wine?
[09:55] <elkbuntu> o.O
[09:55] <elkbuntu> maybe not so odd...
[09:58] <elkbuntu> minus the wine part though
[10:15] <ikonia> ivantis: is there a reason your still in the channel
[10:15] <ikonia> ivantis: I believe you questions about running bots has been answer
[10:15] <ikonia> answered
[10:38] <jussi01> !idle | ivantis
[11:31] <bazhang> wow
[11:32] <bazhang> some folks just cant seem to read instructions
[11:33] <ikonia> yup
[11:33] <bazhang> bluee and now clint
[11:33] <ikonia> they are trolling me ;)
[11:34] <bazhang> hehe
[11:34] <bazhang> use the DESKTOP!!!!
[11:34] <bazhang> wat?
[11:34] <ikonia> that was bluee earlier
[11:35] <bazhang> yeh
[12:12] <jussi01> !version
[12:35] <ikonia> </count doku>
[12:50] <elkbuntu> having fun in trollville
[12:50] <elkbuntu> ?
[12:51] <ikonia> not me sir
[12:51] <Pici> ma'am
[12:51]  * Pici tips hat
[12:52] <elkbuntu> heh
[12:52] <Pici> I'm way too awake for this Monday morning.
[12:52] <ikonia> yesI have a little buzz this morning
[12:52] <ikonia> although I feel tired, long train ride this morning
[12:53] <Pici> Its probably because of the time change here.
[12:53] <ikonia> I wish there was a time change here
[14:00] <Pici> If anyone's curious, I fixed my capab identify issue.  A newer version of the format_identify script supports automatically detecting and enabling it. I was on an old version.
[14:00] <bazhang> phew
[14:00] <bazhang> now I can sleep nights.
[14:00] <Pici> :P
[14:04] <Mez> Myrtti: for some reason, your blog is showing as having a link to mine from yours yesterday? but I cant find it.... (damn link tracking)
[14:05] <Myrtti> oh, dunno
[14:06] <Mez> link from http://myrtti.fi/blog/2008/11/02/daily-digest-for-2008-11-02/
[14:06] <Mez> says you linked to me...
[14:06] <Mez> weirdness...
[14:06] <Pici> Mez: You are on the 'Saw it on Teh Intternet' sidebar
[14:07] <Myrtti> ha! true
[14:07] <Myrtti> oo, telephone
[14:07] <Mez> ah!
[14:08] <Mez> that makes sense then ;)
[14:08] <Pici> saxamaphone
[14:08] <Mez> Pici: good spot...
[14:08] <Mez> must use referer tracking
[14:08] <Pici> Indeed
[14:08] <Mez> wow... that must er...
[14:09] <Mez> what a waste of resources (pinging back every referrer?)
[14:10] <marcboy> Hey, i was wondering if anyone could shed light onto why im banned from the #ubuntu channel?
[14:10] <ikonia> @btlogin
[14:10] <ikonia> marcboy: one moment please
[14:10] <marcboy> ok :)
[14:11] <Mez> @bansearch marcboy
[14:11] <Pici> marcboy: You can rejoin the channel now, sorry for the inconvenience.
[14:11] <Mez> @btlogin
[14:11] <Pici> Mez: I just removed it.
[14:11] <ikonia> I don't see it in bt
[14:11] <marcboy> thanks :)
[14:11] <Mez> no problem
[14:12] <Myrtti> oooh, gotta go
[14:12] <ikonia> Pici: what did you search for in bt to see him ?
[14:12] <Pici> ikonia: I used @bansearch
[14:12] <ikonia> I searched on marcboy and nothing comes back (it still doens't
[14:12] <Mez> Myrtti: toilet's that way *points*
[14:12] <ikonia> why did bansearch see it but bt doesn't
[14:13] <Pici> Because bt doesnt know who marcboy is, or his current hostmask
[14:13] <Mez> ikonia: cause bansearch searches permutatins of the full mask. The ban that matches doesnt include his nick
[14:13] <ikonia> ah so it searches the current user using marcboy and his host etc etc, rather than the hardcoded words fo the search
[14:13] <ikonia> I thought it jsut searched bt
[14:14] <Myrtti> Mez: sorry, to the bus. oh.
[14:14] <Myrtti> btw.
[14:14] <Myrtti> MARMITE IS HORRID JUNK
[14:14] <Mez> Myrtti: was a boke ...
[14:14] <Myrtti> BLECCCCHHHH
[14:14] <Mez> Myrtti: thank god someone agrees ...
[14:14] <Myrtti> you English are Weird Bunch.
[14:14] <Mez> noone else I know agrees...
[14:15] <Pici> I've never had, and hopefully never will
[14:15] <popey> \o/ marmite hilight
[14:15] <Mez> Myrtti: dont blame me - I hate it...
[14:15] <Mez> popey: ? freak.
[14:15] <Myrtti> I blame popey
[14:15] <Myrtti> -->
[14:15] <popey> \o/
[14:15] <popey> Freak!
[14:16] <nalioth> Myrtti: you don't eat it by the spoonful, you spread it very thinly on toast (or dunk a dollop in a bowl of soup)
[14:17] <Mez> I think I killed my PC...
[14:18] <Mez> 17Gb it got to with the tar... and well... then didnt go any firsther
[14:18] <Mez> further
[14:18] <Mez> ah, never mind... it's just started again.
[14:23] <Pici> LjL: Did you happen to see the freenode blog post about the new ircd?
[14:23] <LjL> Pici: i think so, unless it's new
[14:23] <LjL> why?
[14:24] <LjL> ah yes it's new
[14:24] <LjL> i'll go read it. still i have *been* on the new ircd already, and so have my bots - if that's what you're thinking about
[14:25] <Pici> LjL: It was indeed.
[14:25] <LjL> Pici: well i can tell you there are a couple of problems, but i've seen nothing that can't be fixed easily enough
[14:25] <LjL> Pici: i already have a branch that mostly works in there, if you've got nothing to do we can join and have another look
[14:26] <Pici> LjL: Nah, I do have other stuff to do right now actually :)
[14:26] <Pici> Just was making sure that you saw it
[14:26] <LjL> Pici: really the most annoying thing is you can't forward people to channels randomly anymore :<
[14:26] <LjL> also, the +q being separate from +b is a nuisance with the bots
[14:26] <jussi01> Myrtti: Vegemite FTW
[14:26] <Pici> LjL: I know :(
[14:27] <Pici> No more sending people to ##windows :(
[14:27] <tritium> Pici: what's the URL for the blog post?
[14:27] <LjL> tritium: just go to blog.freenode.net
[14:27] <LjL> first post
[14:27] <tritium> thank you
[14:27] <Pici> http://blog.freenode.net/2008/11/help-us-test-ircd-seven/
[14:27] <LjL> although there was an older post about it
[14:29] <tritium> Interesting.
[14:30]  * nalioth blinks at tritium active during the light of day . . .
[14:30] <tritium> nalioth: heh, fair enough.  I took today off to take my wife to visit her family.
[14:31] <nalioth> tritium: ah, great :) ( on the day off ) sorry to hear that ( visiting the MIL )
[14:31] <Pici> heh
[14:31] <tritium> heh :)
[14:35] <ikonia> whats worse, working or visiting the inlaws
[14:37]  * tritium ponders
[14:40] <Gary> you work over your inlaws, wow
[14:40] <Gary> (work over/beat up) btw, not a typo!
[14:42] <Gary> with my inlaws, i'd do overtime at work :p
[14:52] <cannonball> Can I get a manual test run at me for that DCC exploit please?
[14:53] <jrib> cannonball: you're good
[14:53] <cannonball> thank you
[14:53] <cannonball> Good because I didn't disconnect?
[14:58] <jussi01> anyone want to buy a luxury yacht?
[14:58] <jussi01> http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/11/02/iraq.yacht.ap/index.html
[15:03] <jussi01> emonkey: how can we help you today?
[15:03] <ikonia> jussi01: I'll take to
[15:03] <ikonia> two
[15:04] <emonkey> jussi01, sorry for joining, little mistake by clicking on the wrong thing in a channel ... ;-)
[15:04] <emonkey> Good evening and bye all
[15:23] <jrib> heh
[15:37] <bazhang> albhack> to crack a wireless wep wep Quelle Surprise
[15:37]  * Pici sighs
[15:38] <bazhang> he cant not enter after a single word.
[15:48] <jdong> sentence buffering!
[15:49] <bazhang> hehe
[15:52] <tritium> Have a good day, all.
[15:52] <Pici> Cyas tritium
[15:52] <tritium> :)
[15:58] <bazhang> bye tritium :)
[17:22] <Mez> !version
[17:34] <ubot3> In ##apple, TheInfinity said: !git is <reply> GIT ist ein Versionsverwaltungssystem, das anders als CVS dezentral organisiert wurde. Viele Projekte wie der Linux kernel nutzen Git bereits. Mehr Informationen: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Baustelle/Git .
[17:34] <Mez> ##apple ?
[17:34] <Flannel> hmm
[17:35] <Flannel> german apples at that.
[17:36] <Mez> ikonia/nalioth ?
[17:36] <stdin> that's nal's bot
[17:37] <Mez> yeah, I see them two in there though... so wondering if they know why it's in there....
[17:37] <nalioth> Mez: it's my bot (for Ubuntu help on Apple hardware)
[17:38] <nalioth> see two of who?
[17:38] <Mez> the two people I mentioned...
[17:38] <Mez> s/them/those/
[17:39] <Mez> nalioth: I dont personally think its a good idea to have it there.....
[17:39] <nalioth> noted
[17:39] <Mez> I can see stuff like the above being a potential issue.
[17:39] <Mez> (another spam avenue that you're the only one with control over)
[17:40] <PriceChild> spam avenue?
[17:40] <Flannel> PriceChild: right next to troll boulevard
[17:40] <Mez> PriceChild: think people flooding the bot with edit requests....
[17:40] <Mez> them being forwarded here...
[17:40] <nalioth> Mez: i am not the only op in ##apple
[17:41] <Mez> only ubuntu opers that have access to that chan are freenode staffers AFAIAA
[17:41] <nalioth> one doesn't have to be an "ubuntu oper" to recognize bot abuse
[17:42] <Mez> nalioth: however, if the abuse is in a channel outside our control, we have god knows how many extra fences to jump over, espescially if you're asleep...
[17:43] <nalioth> Mez: in the years since ubot3 has been there, it's an issue now?
[17:43] <nalioth> well, now that it's in public irc logs with nice keywords, it might just be
[17:43] <Mez> nalioth: It's only been bought to my attention NOW. I'm just stating my POV
[17:44] <stdin> if there ever was an edit request flood, there's always /mode #ubuntu-ops +b %ubot3!*@*
[17:44] <nalioth> well, thanks for lesson #435 for the trolls
[17:44] <stdin> but an op in the channel would likely take care of it before that was needed
[17:44] <nalioth> "edit request flood of #ubuntu-ops"  //check//
[17:45] <Mez> nalioth: if thats your POV... you're not exactly helping...
[17:45] <Mez> nalioth: where would you RATHER issues are bought up?
[17:45] <nalioth> well, since we _know_ trolls peruse the #ubuntu-ops logs regularly, a PM would have been a good start
[17:46] <Flannel> hi trolls! \o/
[17:47] <Mez> nalioth: whereas I would rather not, you see, public channls at least give accountability for what's said.
[17:47] <ikonia> Mez: you called
[17:47] <nalioth> #ubuntu-ircbots-team is not publically logged and the very same point could have been made there
[17:47] <Mez> ikonia: read backlog
[17:48] <Mez> nalioth and how long now till a troll breaks in and logs ? :P
[17:48] <Mez> nalioth and how long now till a troll breaks in and logs ? :P
[17:48] <Mez> (sorry bout double)
[17:48] <Flannel> nalioth: Really, its not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it.  Anyone who submits a factoid sees that it gets forwarded here, anyone who reads the logs already knows they get forwarded here.
[17:49] <nalioth> but now the trolls _know_ that 'edit floods' irritate mez (and most likely #ubuntu-ops)
[17:49] <Mez> nalioth: common sense. Floods of ANY kind annoy the ops
[17:50] <ikonia> ah, I didn't know anything about a bot in ##apple, never seen it get used
[17:50] <nalioth> well, you need to keep adding to your list.  there are some #ubuntu-* channels inhabited by ubottu, ubot5 or ubot3 with little op presence as well
[17:51] <Mez> nalioth: though, in those cases its in our namespace, so a Council member an step in.,
[17:51] <nalioth> if they're awake
[17:52] <nalioth> ##apple has the same access list entry as all #ubuntu* channels are supposed to ---> freenode staff
[17:52] <Mez> nalioth: yes. However, the thing is - with the aforementioned channel... afaik, you're the only one of our team who can step in.
[17:52] <ikonia> can other freenode staff not ?
[17:52] <ikonia> I got tomaw to help in apple the other night
[17:52] <ikonia> he was quick and handy
[17:52] <nalioth> quite so.
[17:52] <Mez> nalioth: just forget it. My points have been made...
[19:31] <nalioth> heh
[19:32] <PriceChild> Hmm?/
[20:14] <PriceChild> Mez: I've had really odd problems with ide hard drives not working which came down to a faulty power supply.
[20:14] <PriceChild> Mez: replace the power supply and try the drives again.
[20:58] <jussi01> freqk: is there something we can help you with today?
[20:59] <freqk> no, why?
[20:59] <jussi01> !idle | freqk
[21:01] <jussi01> freqk: so again I ask, is there something we can help you with today?
[21:11] <jussi01> stupid floodbots...
[22:09] <NeoGeo64> Is it worth it to upgrade?
[22:09] <NeoGeo64> i run 8.04
[22:36] <LjL> jussi01: what did they do
[22:37] <jussi01> LjL: just giggling at them reporting every message they get, including global notices...
[22:37] <LjL> there's no difference at all between a global notice and any notice
[22:38] <LjL> "global notice" is just a facility an ircd may provide to send NOTICEs to every connected user
[22:42] <nalioth> yeah, just /msg * blah blah blah
[22:52] <wgrant> Ahahah "Yes, it's condescending. There's a reason for that."
[23:34] <LjL> nalioth: isn't it /notice * blah blah blah?
[23:35] <nalioth> LjL: yes, something like that


[01:13] <momken> hello
[01:13] <momken> I want to build an ubuntu server with this architecture
[01:14] <momken> My PC have an SSD for OS partitions (/ and /boot, etc.) and 2x2TB HDDs for Data partitions.
[01:15] <momken> I already have many different ext4, NILFS and BTRFS partitions for different kinds of data (media, docs, projects, backups, etc)
[01:15] <momken> Now I want my server to allow this features:
[01:17] <momken> 1- Only does soft-raid1 (mdadm) for more important partitions (e.g. docs, projects but not media partition containing videos)
[01:19] <momken> 2- Does a level of encryption so that if my HDDs are stolen my data won't be compromised. But obviously, I don't want to enter a passphrase after every boot, because it's a server (mostly headless and without a keyboard) and also may reboot many times due to powerloss
[01:19] <momken> I don't know how to do the encryption part
[01:22] <cryptodan_mobile> how would i upgrade php5 to php7 on server 14.04.2 as well as apace2 to the latest?
[01:26] <cryptodan_mobile> for anyone interested ubuntu 14.04.2 doesnt produce the aacraid error . driver 1.20 of the adaptec raid controller is stable
[01:55] <Kowalski> excuseme
[01:56] <Kowalski> can i create 2 pc with ubuntu server on each pc but count as 1 ubuntu server on network?
[02:05] <cryptodan_mobile> like load balanced?
[02:07] <Kowalski> something like that
[02:08] <Kowalski> i already have 1 ubuntu server
[02:08] <Kowalski> and this server almost full with database,
[02:09] <Kowalski> can i install a new pc with ubuntu server and expand the storage capacity?
[02:09] <Kowalski> oh sorry
[02:10] <Kowalski> can i run ubuntu server on 1 pc, where database server running, but store the database file on another ubuntu server pc
[02:10] <Kowalski> ?
[02:13] <cryptodan_mobile> yes
[02:44] <whislock> You can, but for databases, that's not advisable.
[02:45] <whislock> Kowalski: ^
[04:52] <pheizax> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[04:52] <pheizax> Make sure to report this IP to any DNSBLs you might think of! That'll totally stop the flood. https://dronebl.org/ I also recommend installing https://github.com/kaniini/antissh
[05:13] <cpaelzer> good morning
[09:34] <cpaelzer> jamespage: does the UCA hold ppc64 binaries (even if they might not be supported) ?
[09:34] <jamespage> cpaelzer: it does and they are supported
[09:35] <jamespage> hmm now you make me ponder that last statement
[09:35] <jamespage> yes it has ppc64el binaries
[09:35] <cpaelzer> fine enough for me
[09:35] <cpaelzer> thanks jamespage
[10:38] <TJ-> Is there a way to configure the qemu default device modes (e.g. SCSI controller using virtio as the default) ?
[11:46] <cpaelzer> TJ libvirt code has defaults per machine type
[11:46] <cpaelzer> TJ-:  to admit I never checked if those defaults can be modified as I always liked that it will fill in sane defaults (and learning with new versions)
[11:46] <cpaelzer> so I could keep my minimal xml and it would do the rest, I see the benefit of overriding defaults thou
[11:47] <cpaelzer> just not sure if that is somewhere already as a feature
[11:48] <TJ-> yeah, I've hit a series of bugs in vagrant-libvirt where it doesn't expose a way to set the device mode and therefore generates a broken libvirt domain XML, which results in the disk image device not being visible to linux kernel, so it drops to the initramfs shell!
[11:50] <TJ-> I'm currently trying to script a workaround that puts "vagrant up" into the background, waits for the domain to start, then does "virsh dumpxml ... | awk 'clever code...' to extract and fix the device entry to add "mode='virtio-scsi' " then calls virsh update-device ... !
[11:50] <cpaelzer> so you'd want to switch the default device mode to get it working
[11:50] <cpaelzer> hmm
[11:50] <TJ-> I was hoping to just set qemu to use something else as the default to avoid this but can't find a way
[11:52] <cpaelzer> I think the defaults for the modes are driver specific and come from the code - at least I would not rememver a config changing that
[11:52] <cpaelzer> it is like "get-config-from-xml, otherwise set foo"
[11:52] <TJ-> yeah, same here. I used to hack on qemu
[11:52] <TJ-> But a man can dream :)
[11:53] <TJ-> Spent the entire weekend hitting bugs in vagrant, vagrant-libvirt, qemu, ansible! An automation tool that should have taken 10 minutes to set up and save me time! Would have been better off doing it manually :D
[11:54] <cpaelzer> I was never too happy with vagrant
[11:54] <cpaelzer> but others are, so I assume as usual it depends on expertise using it
[11:55] <TJ-> much of the problem is incorrect/missing/out-of-date documentation, changes in the way Ruby behaves (syntax)
[11:55] <cpaelzer> that pretty much summarizes my pain with it
[11:56] <TJ-> It's hard to know how much pain to take before ditching it too
[11:57] <TJ-> Once it's working fine, I've got a very complex single-guest scenario to deploy using ansible, which will get iterated thousands of times so I *think* it's worth the pain so far :)
[12:11] <xnox> dpb1, hi!
[12:11] <xnox> have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman3/+bug/1775427 ?
[12:22] <ahasenack> xnox: dpb1 is on PTO this week
[13:01] <xnox> ahasenack, thanks
[13:01] <ahasenack> xnox: I added a card to our trello board and assigned it to him
[13:02] <xnox> ahasenack, tah. I'm ok with doing MIRs, but imho i need a product decision whether or not we want /any/ mailman in main; and on the old server iso.
[13:02] <xnox> ahasenack, i.e. drop mailman; or replace mailman with mailman3 in main.
[13:02] <ahasenack> and the latter needs mode deps
[16:02] <Ussat> sudo do-release-upgrade -d , so testing this now on a 16 --> 18 upgrade test system
[16:03] <Ussat> I know the -d flag isnt going to be needed when the switch goes live, but wanted to give a prelim try
[16:04] <ahasenack> just be careful you don't pick cosmic (it shouldn't)
[16:06] <Ussat> OK, so upgrade test went fine but....I thought it would be useing netplan by default ? /etc/netplan is empty
[16:06] <ahasenack> not for upgrades
[16:06] <nacc> Ussat: i think that would only be true on fresh installs
[16:07] <nacc> much like most things, stuff doesn't convert (normally) in the first upgrade path
[16:07] <nacc> it's better for it to work as-is :)
[16:07] <Ussat> OK, thats fair
[16:07] <Ussat> OH...I agree
[16:07] <nacc> Ussat: also, it's not ... 1:1 to convert from eni to netplan
[16:07] <Ussat> I was just noticing it did not, might want to make that known in the docs so people dont freak
[16:08] <Ussat> is there a plan to eventually do a conversion ? I just think (IMHO anyway) having multiple 18.* systems, some with netplan some without would be confusing in the long run
[16:09] <Ussat> I dont think I will convert my existing 16 systems rught away anyway, wil let it bake a while, just to be sure
[16:10] <nacc> Ussat: i don't know the answer to that, sorry
[16:10] <Ussat> NP
[16:11] <Ussat> Had to ask :)
[16:12] <cryptodan_mobile> TJ-: ubuntu server 14.04.2 works flawlessly by the way
[16:13] <cryptodan_mobile> TJ-: any way to get the latest lamp stack on it?
[16:14] <nacc> cryptodan_mobile: 14.04.2? that's eol. You should either be on 14.04.1's kernel (3.13) or 14.04.5's kernel (4.4)
[16:14] <nacc> cryptodan_mobile: if you are fully up to date, both kernels will report 14.04.5, which is what your `lsb_release -sd` should say
[16:15] <TJ-> nacc: it's needed
[16:15] <nacc> TJ-: buggy hardware?
[16:15] <cryptodan_mobile> Cant as any newer ubuntu server causes my server to malfunction
[16:15] <cryptodan_mobile> aacraid bug
[16:15] <TJ-> nacc: the system, A Dell PowerEdge, loses its aacraid with current supported kernels, we needed an old ISO to boot from to do some fixing
[16:16] <nacc> TJ-: even with the 3.13 kernel?
[16:16] <TJ-> nacc: there are a bunch of accraid changes that have broken older hardware
[16:16] <cryptodan_mobile> nacc: 3.13 works
[16:16] <nacc> ok, so use that? rather than an unsupported, unfixed kernel? :)
[16:17] <TJ-> nacc: this was to find out if .2 was also broken
[16:17] <cryptodan_mobile> I was letting TJ- know it is working
[16:17] <nacc> ah ok
[16:17] <nacc> sorry for the noise then
[16:17] <TJ-> nacc: this isn't installed, it's a LiveISO to work from
[16:18] <cryptodan_mobile> Nacc Nacc np and its installed TJ-
[16:18] <TJ-> there are some Fix Committed patches due, but they may not cover this specific issue
[16:18] <nacc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1653162 ?
[16:18] <TJ-> cryptodan_mobile: to your question: you could pin the current working kernel before doing apt-get dist-upgrade so everything else upgrades
[16:19] <cryptodan_mobile> I'll post that and the driver for aacraid
[16:20] <TJ-> possibly Bug #1770095
[16:20] <TJ-> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1777586
[16:21] <TJ-> possibly also Bug #1777586
[16:21] <cryptodan_mobile> Its funny after 16.04 install its stable but when I add drive i/o it drops the raid controller
[16:21] <cryptodan_mobile> 3 or 4 reboots and no more boot
[16:22] <TJ-> I know with a logn time ago with a PE 6400 the solution was firmware update of the controller
[16:25] <cryptodan_mobile> I maybe able to do that now via command line now that its stable
[16:27] <TJ-> I think I still have floppy disks here with the bootable firmware update on :)
[16:31] <RoyK> TJ-: dd a copy of them - floppies don't last that long ;)
[16:31] <TJ-> RoyK: They've lasted 15 years so far :)
[16:32] <RoyK> that doesn't mean they'll last another 15
[16:32] <TJ-> RoyK: still got some 360K/720K 5.25" floppies here that are readable
[16:32] <RoyK> just use ddrescue to get some copies
[16:32] <TJ-> lastest longer than almost all the HDDs :)
[16:33] <RoyK> TJ-: someone at work had thrown away a 360kB 5,25" floppy drive (DS/DD) - I had to rescue it
[16:33] <RoyK> TJ-: probably because those HDDs were spinning and the floppy wasn't
[16:34] <TJ-> RoyK: I'm on about in storage. Electronics on the HDDs tends to deteriorate
[16:34] <RoyK> when under use, yes, usually not when not in use
[16:35] <RoyK> and mostly, it's a head failure that kills drives
[16:35] <RoyK> not the controller
[16:36] <RoyK> and I know that from an old friend that once started https://www.ibas.no/, who once upon a time was world leading in data recovery
[16:44] <Pcost8300> Hello, how do i disable silent parameters on ubuntu server 14? I have a problem and my provider tells that the server boots and when it tries to go to the Os it goes back to PXE
[16:44] <JanC> I'm pretty sure any 5.25" floppies are > 15yo...  :)
[16:45] <Pcost8300> thank you in advance.
[16:45] <compdoc> Pcost8300, it was booting before?
[16:45] <Pcost8300> yes it was
[16:46] <compdoc> sounds like it cant find the OS
[16:46] <Pcost8300> this problem came recently after years of work
[16:46] <Pcost8300> this has something to do with grub
[16:46] <JanC> Pcost8300: can you select the rescue boot option in GRUB?
[16:47] <JanC> or do anything in GRUB really
[16:47] <Pcost8300> yes i can enter recovery mode
[16:47] <Pcost8300> well i cant see grub because the provider just gave us a powerpanel
[16:47] <JanC> that should not be silent
[16:47] <Pcost8300> im using server4you
[16:47] <JanC> or you can edit the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT parameter in /etc/default/grub
[16:48] <Pcost8300> ok ill give it a look
[16:48] <JanC> then run update-grub afterward (if possible...)
[16:49] <JanC> if you can't, then you might have to edit grub.cfg directly (but it will be overwritten on the next update-grub run, e.g. when upgrading kernels or such)
[16:50] <Pcost8300> ok thank you JanC i will follow your advice
[16:57] <tomreyn> documentation on this providers' PXE boot recovery system, in case you'll need it https://www.server4you.com/community/article/operating-systems/152-about-linux-recovery
[16:58] <TJ-> Hmmm, package virtinst claims to contain virt-image, but doesn't
[17:00] <Pcost8300> thank you tomreyn
[17:01] <nacc> TJ-: no longer mentioned on the upstream virt-manager page, fwiw
[17:01] <nacc> TJ-: removed in 1.1.0 (9/7/14)
[17:02] <nacc> announced in 1.0.0 (2/14/14)
[17:04] <TJ-> nacc: right. I've created a bug
[17:05] <TJ-> Bug #1784424
[17:05] <nacc> TJ-: ack, probably easiest to fix in debian, tbh; i don't think we'd normally add delta for that
[17:08] <Pcost8300> some of the stepts i think cannot be applied to my problem
[17:08] <Pcost8300> using fdisk -l command theres is no * boot flag in any drive
[17:09] <Pcost8300> by the way there are two drives sda and sdb with the same sice en each partition
[17:09] <Pcost8300> 1mb BIOS BOOT  466m linux raid  7.6g linux raid 2.7T linux raid
[17:10] <TJ-> nacc: right... shame we don't have a switch in launchpad to automatically forward the bug report to debian
[17:12] <TJ-> Ahhh coreutils how I love thee! Giving me "timeout" when vagrant provides no way to create a new VM but not start it
[17:12] <TJ-> "timeout 5 vagrant up" :)
[18:07] <cyberspectre> On ubuntu server, the default web directory accessible by http is /var/www/html. I need to be able to scp upload files to that directory with one command, which isn't possible because root. Can this directory be changed to somewhere in the home directory?
[18:08] <nacc> cyberspectre: what is your need to do that?
[18:08] <nacc> cyberspectre: it's not typical to need to be able to scp to your web root
[18:08] <cyberspectre> automated file updates
[18:08] <nacc> you could also consider using userdir or whatever and ~/public-html
[18:08] <nacc> ~/public_html, rather
[18:08] <nacc> cyberspectre: that's so vague as to not be a reasonable response :)
[18:10] <cyberspectre> if I use ~/public_html, will that automatically be available via http?
[18:10] <TJ-> cyberspectre: you could use ACLs to allow a non-root user to traverse/write there
[18:11] <cyberspectre> thanks TJ- ; would it be a better idea (more secure) to use the public_html directory?
[18:12] <TJ-> cyberspectre: well, not if you want to update the server root, but if it's acceptable to use the userdir module and access via http://server/~$USER/
[18:13] <nacc> cyberspectre: which is why i said it was vague; i (still) don't know what you're actually trying to do
[18:15] <cyberspectre> Oh, right, so you'd need to access via that url structure
[18:15] <TJ-> cyberspectre: what I usually do is "sudo chmod -R g+w /var/www/html" and then "adduser $USER www-data" - this allows the www-data group write access to /var/www/html and then adds $USER to www-data group
[18:15] <cyberspectre> nacc, my company has a web server for media files located at company.info
[18:16] <cyberspectre> and I need to set up automated synchronization with a local machine that produces the assets
[18:16] <TJ-> cyberspectre: oh, and "sudo chown -R :www-data /var/www/html
[18:17] <TJ-> depends on which release it is as to whether the directory is owned by www-data or root
[18:18] <cyberspectre> TJ-, in the commands you provided, would you do "adduser $USER" verbatim? Or do you replace with your username
[18:19] <nacc> cyberspectre: just for one local machine?
[18:19] <cyberspectre> nacc, yes
[18:20] <nacc> cyberspectre: then it'd be whatever user is on that machine that can scp to the web server
[18:20] <nacc> cyberspectre: the user it authenticates as on the webe server, that is
[18:20] <TJ-> cyberspectre: well, I'd use $USER if I want to add the user I'm currently using; else I'd specify another username that is valid
[18:20] <cyberspectre> Right, so if that user is "Jeff" then "adduser $Jeff www-data" ?
[18:21] <TJ-> cyberspectre: no... if you're logged in as "ubuntu" then "adduser $USER www-data" will add user "ubuntu" to group "www-data". If you want to add "jeff" you'd do "adduser jeff www-data"
[18:22] <TJ-> "$USER" is an environment variable set when you log in so it is always your current username
[18:23] <TJ-> in the same way that "$HOME" is that user's home directory (same as ~)
[18:25] <cyberspectre> nacc, TJ- thank you guys
[18:25] <cyberspectre> I added the user to that group and now scp works as intended
[18:25] <cyberspectre> Much appreciated!
[18:52] <ahasenack> rbasak: if you are still around, could you please import/refresh ndctl and pmdk?
[19:04] <ahasenack> rbasak: also for tomorrow, I'm starting an apache2 merge, and finding out that all my previous uploads (with the git workflow) do not have rich history, and I'm having to do the reconstruct again
[19:12] <nacc> ahasenack: you don't have to do it again even in that case, you just need to use git-fu
[19:13] <ahasenack> still, I'd like to know if it's something wrong I did on my side, or a bug
[19:13] <ahasenack> as far as I know, I dput'ed only after the upload tag was pushed by someone else
[19:13] <nacc> i'm looing purely from the git side
[19:14] <nacc> which was the last merge? 2.4.33-3ubuntu1 ?
[19:14] <ahasenack> merge? yes. Upload? 2.4.33-3ubuntu3
[19:15] <nacc> which is the one not matching? all of them?
[19:15] <ahasenack> yeah
[19:15] <ahasenack> pick 65084dea Import patches-unapplied version 2.4.33-3ubuntu1 to ubuntu/cosmic-proposed
[19:15] <ahasenack> pick bc275a7e Import patches-unapplied version 2.4.33-3ubuntu2 to ubuntu/cosmic-proposed
[19:15] <ahasenack> pick fad2aea4 Import patches-unapplied version 2.4.33-3ubuntu3 to ubuntu/cosmic-proposed
[19:15] <ahasenack> all these 3
[19:16] <nacc> hrm
[19:16] <nacc> the importer ran on may 15 for 2.4.33-3ubuntu1
[19:16] <nacc> but the upload tag is dated july 9 ?
[19:17] <nacc> oh wait
[19:17] <nacc> let me re-read the metadat to make sure i'm right :)
[19:17] <ahasenack> changelog date is indeed may 15th
[19:17] <nacc> and publishing history says may 23
[19:18] <ahasenack> that's ok, takes a while to review
[19:18] <ahasenack> and migrate
[19:18] <ahasenack> trying to find the mp
[19:18] <nacc> oh wait, it says the tag is may 15
[19:19] <ahasenack> https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+git/apache2/+merge/345312
[19:20] <ahasenack> cpaelzer said he pushed the tag on may 15th on a5941629
[19:20] <ahasenack> this is one of those mps where the lp diff is wrong, I wonder if that's related
[19:20] <nacc> shouldn't be
[19:21] <nacc> although i see a commeent of cpaelzer tagging
[19:21] <nacc> and then commits being added?
[19:21] <ahasenack> that last commit is odd, that's from 2.4.33-3ubuntu2 apparently
[19:22] <nacc> ok
[19:22] <ahasenack> that would be https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+git/apache2/+merge/345796
[19:35] <nacc> ahasenack: sorry, not able to debug it further right now
[19:35] <ahasenack> sure, np :)
[20:15] <ahasenack> hm, an orig tarball that has debian/ already, and it's not a native package
[20:15] <ahasenack> that's a wrinkle
[20:17] <ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/usd-importer/+bug/1734657
[21:04] <IT_Rando> So I installed Landscape on an AWS instance running Ubuntu 16.04 and the problems have never seemed to end. The server sets up fine with landscape-quickstart and a little bit of configuration file editing, but then what really screws me over is that package updating for client laptops fails half the time, and that's after opening ports 80 and 443 to my IP. I keep getting the same error message and the
[21:04] <IT_Rando> listed bug is a broken link. I posted on askubuntu about it: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1050482/landscape-package-changer-keeps-crashing
[21:15] <IT_Rando> Does anyone happen to know why my LDS issue, mentioned in https://askubuntu.com/questions/1050482/landscape-package-changer-keeps-crashing, is happening? Or why the link listed in the error report is dead?
[21:16] <xnox> IT_Rando, i think it's best to contact your landscape support team about that? i thought there should be a way to open a support ticket from the landscape UI, no?
[21:16] <xnox> IT_Rando, this time of day is quite here, and i'm not sure you can get paid/SLA support here.
[21:17] <xnox> IT_Rando, ditto askubuntu.com -> is community support / public forum, not landscape support.
[21:17] <IT_Rando> xnox Gotcha. Unfortunately, I have a standalone license for testing purposes for my company, and I'm not gonna have access to the paid support unless I can convince the brass to use it
[21:18] <xnox> IT_Rando, sad =/ maybe you can get in touch with landscape sales people about this, or better open an actual bug report -> $ ubuntu-bug landscape-package-changer
[21:18] <xnox> IT_Rando, and maybe give the bug # to me?
[21:18] <IT_Rando> Gotcha.
[21:19] <xnox> i see that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/1758529 is private
[21:19] <xnox> but it is fix committed and will be released soon
[21:19] <IT_Rando> Oh?
[21:19] <xnox> details are at https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/landscape-client/pull/45
[21:19] <xnox> which are public
[21:19] <xnox> (the bug report, has but reporter's private data in the logs, hence only available to developers to view)
[21:20] <IT_Rando> Oh man, thanks a ton. I was tearing my hair out over here.
[21:20] <xnox> IT_Rando, so i guess you can patch that bit in locally no? https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/landscape-client/pull/45/files
[21:20] <xnox> it's just a few lines to copy & paste =)))))
[21:21] <xnox> IT_Rando, yeah, i'm nobody really. just can view bug triange.
[21:21] <IT_Rando> Thanks! For reference, how'd you find this? Was it in the private bug report?
[21:22] <xnox> IT_Rando, yeah
[21:22] <xnox> IT_Rando, ladscape support would have been able to view that too.
[21:23] <IT_Rando> All right. In the future, if I can't see a bug report, I'll know what that means. And provided this fixes the problem (which it likely will) I'll probably have access to the paid support soon. Thanks again.
[21:23] <xnox> IT_Rando, i can check with landscape devs tomorrow to see if they can scrape private data and make that bug report public, such that it would be visible when the client is fixed in bionic.
[21:23] <IT_Rando> That would be great
[21:23] <xnox> IT_Rando, no problem
[21:59] <oerheks> v/clear
[22:35] <nacc> ahasenack: the tress don't match
[22:36] <nacc> ahasenack: for the upload and import tag
[22:36] <ahasenack> :(
[22:36] <ahasenack> could this be a case of problems because of the empty directories?
[22:37] <nacc> is it docs/ ?
[22:37] <ahasenack> that's the other thing that came to mind
[22:37] <nacc> if so, yes :)
[22:37] <ahasenack> yeah, iirc
[22:37] <nacc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VrNFhK55hR/
[22:37] <nacc> now, in theory, we could detect these kinds of cases, i think
[22:37] <nacc> if the only difference between an upload tag and import tag is the empty directories
[22:38] <nacc> rbasak: --^ ?
[22:39] <rbasak> We could, but is it worth it?
[22:39] <nacc> dunno
[22:39] <nacc> just a thought, as right now, we're discarding relatively valid upload tag data
[22:40] <nacc> (from rich history)
[22:40] <rbasak> I'd like to spend the effort fixing empty directories properly by adding support for them to git, but admittedly that's considerably harder.
[22:40] <nacc> yeah :)
[22:40] <rbasak> In any case, I think improving empty directory handling is quite far down my priority list at the moment.
[22:40] <rbasak> I spent the effort on the workaround on the hope that I'd be able to put it away for a while.
[22:42] <ahasenack> which workaround?
[22:42] <ahasenack> the commit guard?
[22:43] <rbasak> Yes, but also that the importer does actually import the empty directories.
[22:43] <ahasenack> btw, apache has these 2 empty dirs:
[22:43] <ahasenack> docs/manual/style/lang
[22:43] <ahasenack> docs/manual/style/xsl/util
[22:43] <ahasenack> so, it's a given the rich history will always be discarded in such cases?
[22:44] <rbasak> At the moment, yes. Unless you restore the empty directories in your own commits.
[22:44] <rbasak> (which there isn't tooling to do)
[22:44] <rbasak> It's not discarded, btw, just not incorporated.
[22:44] <rbasak> The upload tag will still be present and you can still rebase from it.
[22:45] <ahasenack> ok
[22:45] <nacc> yeah, sorry, 'discard' was the wrong word
[22:45] <nacc> 'not used' :)