[00:00] <fosterdv> @thomas What mail daemon are you using?
[00:00] <pedahzur> Anyone here work on the Ubuntu Virtualization PPA?  Just went to install a VM on an Ubuntu 10.04 host, and got an error saying 'virt-install: error: no such option: --initrd-inject'  Went to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/+archive/ppa Added the PPA.  Trying to update, I get this error from apt: qemu-common: Depends: vgabios (>= 0.6c-2ubuntu2) but 0.6c-2ubuntu1 is to be installed. Also, it looks like the packages are old:
[00:00] <pedahzur> virtinst is at version 0.500 from a year ago. The CentOS 6.2 box I'm on has a virtinst package of 0.600.
[00:00] <thomas> fosterdv, I'm assuming you mean sendmail. I'm a bit green just trying to do some leg work for my engineer
[00:01] <fosterdv> Yeah, :)
[00:01] <fosterdv> Are you using mbox or maildir?
[00:01] <fosterdv> mbox = mailboxes show up as a single file...
[00:02] <fosterdv> maildir = each email is a file to itself
[00:30] <thomas> fosterdv, Sorry for the delay ribs finished :) Had to have some family time there. Anyways, I belive mailboxes show up as a single file.
[00:32] <EduFrazao> Hi all
[00:32] <thomas> o/
[00:33] <jkyle> setting up rsyslog server on ubuntu. the server is receiving remote logs, but outputting them to /var/log/rsyslog instead of my specified /var/log/remote.log
[00:33] <jkyle> here's the conf snippet: https://gist.github.com/2590703
[00:34] <EduFrazao> im new on ubuntu. I need to install the libreadline5-dev, but I cant found it with apt-cache search. I have only libreadline5, libreadline6 and libreadline6-dev. I need to add another repos on apt-get? Im using Ubuntuserver 11.10
[00:37] <thomas> jkyle, I did this before using some sort of 'finger' and doing something with the /etc/mail dir.
[00:38] <jkyle> wut
[00:38] <jkyle> should be able to do it all in rsyslog
[00:42] <ruben23> hi guys any help regarding running a particualr script, what shoudl be done-------> http://sites.google.com/site/kjalleda/mysqlreplicationconsistency
[00:44] <thomas> I can't find the rsyslog lol
[01:01] <pedahzur> EduFrazao: What version? libreadline5-dev was only available in hardy through natty.
[01:02] <EduFrazao> pedahzur, yes... On 11.10 it is deprecated... but it is needed by vmware vcap....
[01:02] <EduFrazao> I think that I will need to downgrade my virtual machine...
[01:02] <EduFrazao> =/
[01:04] <pedahzur> EduFrazao: Are you locked in to VMWare?  Could you use KVM?
[01:04] <EduFrazao> pedahzur, im using cloud-foundry =/
[01:04] <pedahzur> EduFrazao: Ah.  They should have support for recent Ubuntu versions.
[01:04] <EduFrazao> from vcap user manual: Note that the recommended version is Ubuntu Server 10.04-2 LTS.
[01:06] <EduFrazao> =/
[01:12] <jkyle> yay, got it
[01:16] <wiherek> is the ssl private key bound to the machine that created it?
[01:18] <jkyle> wiherek: no
[01:25] <thomasu> anyone know the ls command which list list all the mail files by size and date last modified?
[01:25] <fosterdv> thomas, did you ever figure it out?
[01:26] <fosterdv> I also stepped away for lunch, sorry about the delay.
[01:26] <bazhang> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man1/ls.1.html thomasu
[01:27] <thomasu> Well, I figured out that I use dovecot for email and I have each email file in my /var/spool/mail directory. From there if I can ls it in a way to show date last modified I'd be set :P
[01:27] <fosterdv> I didn't know that reflects logins.... well, that's cool :P
[01:29] <fosterdv> I was trying to figure out how to do it myself, it's been a while since I checked for things like that... but, if you save your maillogs, future reference... when you're going through your users, you could also attempt using grep -r 'username' in the maillog, and look for anything showing the last time they accessed the account.
[01:29] <fosterdv> or at least attempted... :P
[01:31] <thomasu> yeah this is a pain but i'm close :)
[01:31] <fosterdv> Nice, :D
[01:31] <fosterdv> Mail is always a pain in my experience..
[01:32] <Patrickdk> mail just takes time
[01:32] <fosterdv> That it does.
[02:42] <tohuw> When invoking ftp from the CLI, how can I get all files in a given folder?
[02:44] <fosterdv> ls ?
[02:44] <tohuw> I mean get, as in the command. In other words, I need to download all files, and I don't have access to the parent.
[02:44] <qman__> mget
[02:45] <tohuw> qman__: thank you.
[02:45] <qman__> mget *, specifically
[02:45] <twb> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie
[02:45] <qman__> or any other wildcard
[02:47] <tohuw> twb: I hate ftp with bleeding daggers, but this isn't my server, or even my project. I'm merely stepping in to provide a few solutions, then exiting stage left.
[02:51] <twb> Fair enough
[02:52] <Datz> Could someone tell me what these dependency problems are about when trying to install php5: http://pastebin.com/eq8cpUq1  I have gnome-session-fallback installed as well.
[02:57] <tohuw> qman__: Why, when I mget -i *, does it still ask me about every file?
[02:58] <twb> Probably because the basic ftp client is crap -- you might get better behaviour with lftp or something
[02:59] <twb> Or better would be rsync, scp, &c of course
[02:59] <qman__> yeah, I don't know
[02:59] <qman__> sftp's works better
[02:59] <tohuw> ugh. I may just tell the vendor I'm not providing the solution to the client until they give me ssh access.
[03:00] <tohuw> Seriously, ftp? Even the IIS teams I work with treat me better than this. :(
[03:00] <twb> tohuw: +1
[03:00] <slide> Im getting a cp: reading 'file': Input/output error but running fsck on the drive shows no errors
[03:00] <twb> I'm about to email a customer saying "upgrade your switch so it supposed key-based SSH"
[03:00] <qman__> sounds like a good plan to me
[03:01] <slide> is there something more i can run to check it?
[03:01] <twb> slide: did you check dmesg, system logs, smart self-test?
[03:01] <tohuw> Hah... mget refused to download directories because they aren't regular files.
[03:01] <tohuw> My path is clear.
[03:01] <twb> tohuw: usually you need a client that can walk the tree a la -r
[03:02] <qman__> slide, you can use dmesg or smartctl to find out if it's a hardware error or a filesystem one
[03:02] <slide> twb, yes, i am getting an error in the syslog, gist.github.com/776739c3c680a9bbc2c5
[03:03] <qman__> looks like the drive is dead
[03:03] <qman__> grab what you can and hope you have a backup
[03:03] <slide> hrm
[03:03] <slide> its just that one file
[03:03] <qman__> means that section of the disk is what's bad
[03:04] <qman__> but it's only going to get worse
[03:04] <qman__> ddrescue may be able to save some of it, but that's just gambling
[03:05] <slide> is there a tool that will actually tell me what areas are bad etc?
[03:05] <twb> slide: your drive is dead/dying; make sure your backups are up to date, and then schedule a replacement ASAP
[03:05] <slide> k
[03:05] <qman__> the error told you
[03:05] <twb> slide: what that's saying is there are so many bad areas already, there are no spare areas left to allocate replacements from
[03:06] <qman__> modern drives manage themselves, they decide where to store data on the actual disk and they automatically handle a certain amount of bad sectors
[03:06] <qman__> when you start getting unreadable files, it's beyond that point
[03:07] <slide> wow its been run for 14000 hours
[03:08] <tohuw> Night all. Datz, If it's an option on that host, backup, purge apache (or at least apache-mpm* and apache-php*) and any php-* packages, install php5, see how it feels about that. Otherwise, figure out how to resolve the conflicts your installed apache-mpm packages are causing: dpkg -L name_of_package.
[03:08] <qman__> slide, that's actually not very good, one of the disks in this machine is at 46319 hours
[03:16] <twb> I bet it's a green drive
[03:18] <Datz> thanks tohuw
[03:21] <qman__> could be anything, my newly rebuilt file server, less than a year old, already lost three drives and a fourth will come soon, already has an offline uncorrectable sector
[03:21] <qman__> fortunately this time around they didn't all go at once
[03:21] <qman__> so I could RMA and replace
[03:22] <qman__> and those are samsung hd103sj
[03:24] <twb> See I buy whitebox junk so I don't have those problems ;-P
[03:25] <slide> nah i dont think its a green drive
[03:25] <slide> Seagate Barracuda LP
[03:26] <twb> qman__: we used to explicitly request disks from different batches, and/or different manufacturers, to try to avoid them all dying at the same time
[03:26] <twb> I don't think we bother anymore
[03:33] <slide> ok backing up now
[03:33] <slide> luckily had a drive with just about the exact amount of space free heh
[03:33] <twb> You should consider using md raid in future
[03:33] <slide> im poor
[03:35] <grendal-prime> ok got about 100 or so servers at this point...some physical..mostly vm's
[03:35] <twb> how much is your data worth?
[03:35] <twb> How much is your TIME worth to try to recover it from a dead rive?
[03:35] <grendal-prime> we want aaa type of server..nis...
[03:36] <grendal-prime> im thinking nis..seems simple..
[03:36] <twb> nis is dead
[03:36] <grendal-prime> isnt there something that works directly with pam though
[03:36] <slide> no im so poor i can barely afford food sooo extra hds arent really viable ha
[03:36] <twb> You should not use nis on any untrusted network, because it allows ANYONE on the network to see ALL your passwords
[03:36] <grendal-prime> slide where are you
[03:36] <slide> louisiana
[03:36] <grendal-prime> what kind of drives do you need
[03:36] <twb> grendal-prime: you should look at LDAP, which is the only actively maintained solution.
[03:37] <twb> grendal-prime: to do it properly you should be using kerberos, but that's a huge pain so at least use LDAP.
[03:37] <slide> i dont NEED drives, ive got a few hundred gigs left, hopefully i can save up before they fully fill up
[03:38] <grendal-prime> i have a pile if drives
[03:38] <twb> I dunno about .us but in .vic.au there are recycling shops that take three-year-old machines and refurbish them with linux, and sell them too poor people for like $10
[03:38] <grendal-prime> twb i do something similar
[03:38] <grendal-prime> in my spare time..
[03:39] <grendal-prime> which i dont have much of now
[03:39] <grendal-prime> but i charge more like 100 or so
[03:39] <grendal-prime> and people bring me their hardware
[03:39] <twb> http://bytebackaustralia.com.au/
[03:39] <twb> I think that's the site
[03:39] <grendal-prime> slide you want me to send you some hd's
[03:40] <twb> Maybe they just throw them away and there's a different mob, I'm not sure
[03:41] <slide> hrm tempting heh but no thanks :)
[03:41] <slide> thank you though
[03:47] <seoaqua> has anyone used boa webserver? the server is not running,with no errorlogs
[03:47] <twb> I think I used it for about three minutes
[03:50] <seoaqua> has anyone used boa webserver? the server is not running,with no errorlogs
[03:54] <grendal-prime> i got an adaptec filer sitting here
[03:55] <grendal-prime> ok so ldap server...
[03:55] <grendal-prime> slapd?
[03:55] <grendal-prime> that filer by the way is  a noisy fkr
[03:56] <grendal-prime> and heavy, prolly cost 100 bucks to ship to florida from cali
[03:58] <twb> grendal-prime: yes, you will need to do some reading
[03:58] <footvilla> is there some sort of application i think i heard of it that u can installed on your ubuntu server
[03:58] <twb> grendal-prime: unfortunately most of the LDAP documentation is written by cargo-culters who don't know what they're doing
[03:58] <footvilla> and external monitor like cpu usage, hd space and system health?
[03:58] <twb> footvilla: there are many.  collectd is what I use.
[03:59] <twb> footvilla: nagios and munin are also worth investigating
[04:00] <grendal-prime> footvilla, there are hundreds of things for that
[04:00] <grendal-prime> htop is probaly the easyest quickest most usefull
[04:01] <twb> grendal-prime: ah, he said "external" which threw me off
[04:01] <grendal-prime> but its curses based you log into the server and watch it
[04:02] <grendal-prime> your probaly right...nagios though..man that thing scares people off like crabs.
[04:02] <footvilla> nagios free?
[04:02] <grendal-prime> we monitor all our ubuntu servers ..and i dont know why they never fail
[04:03] <grendal-prime> nagios free ya..
[04:03] <grendal-prime> so is zabbix
[04:03] <grendal-prime> you need alerting?
[04:04] <twb> zabbix is PHP though IIRC
[04:04] <grendal-prime> php rocks
[04:04] <twb> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[04:04] <Datz> tohuw: purged apache2, installed php5 without problem, then installed apache2 without problem; everything works.. Don't know what the problem was before. Might have purged some dep for a package I have installed and broken something I will find out about later. :)
[04:04] <grendal-prime> anyone tells you other wise they are high
[04:05] <footvilla> well running a webserver
[04:05] <footvilla> alerting would be nice
[04:05] <twb> footvilla: performance monitoring or availability monitoring?
[04:05] <footvilla> also would like to see if the webserver gets overloaded or howmany people browsing the website
[04:05] <footvilla> a little of both twb
[04:06] <grendal-prime> id recommend ntop
[04:06] <grendal-prime> network throughput and from where
[04:06] <grendal-prime> easy setup web graphs..we use it alot
[04:07] <footvilla> something simple that i can remotely log in
[04:07] <footvilla> mem usage / network usage / cpu usage etc
[04:07] <grendal-prime> it will give you very good statistics on nework traffic
[04:08] <grendal-prime> footvilla, if you want to quickly see whats happening..very directly monitor..htop is the thang
[04:08] <grendal-prime> apt-get install htop
[04:08] <grendal-prime> then ssh into the box and type htop
[04:09] <grendal-prime> see what it gives you..that may be exactly what you want..you want something that logs tracks and charts stuff..you will need to look into something else
[04:10] <grendal-prime> orion..zabbix, nagios..
[04:10] <footvilla> yea logs tracks and charts
[04:10] <grendal-prime> much more setup usually
[04:10] <footvilla> but also i could log into w/ username
[04:10] <footvilla> gui interface
[04:11] <grendal-prime> i would recomend you do the htop thing anyway..you can highlight processes and kill them
[04:11] <grendal-prime> and see live..each proc how much is being used...what is top and you can scroll through all the processes with your arrow keys
[04:12] <footvilla> yea installed htop
[04:12] <grendal-prime> and run strace on any processs and see the actual data that is being processed by the kernel directly
[04:12] <grendal-prime> and it runs from you smart phone as well.
[04:13] <grendal-prime> anything that ssh's in
[04:13] <grendal-prime> that thing has saved me a lot of hassle
[04:13] <footvilla> nice! thanks grendal
[04:14] <grendal-prime> np
[04:14] <grendal-prime> its the first thing i install on all the linux boxes
[04:15] <grendal-prime> in fact...heheh  if its not installed...i know i prolly didnt build the box
[04:16] <grendal-prime> twb, soo im looking at the webmin module for ldap. looks pretty straight forward.  (the management and sups at my regular gig love that thing)
[04:16] <twb> Do not use webmin.
[04:17] <grendal-prime> you are just full of way to practical bummer type responces
[04:17] <twb> Specifically regarding the webmin ldap users & groups modules, note that it requires full root bind privileges, and only speaks RFC 2307/bis -- which is manageable apart from password expiry.
[04:18] <grendal-prime> unfortunatly,  there is something we do that has become amazingly simple with that tool.  to the point where it was required on most of the servers
[04:18] <twb> RFC 2307 relies on the client to enforce locked/expired/needs-reset passwords, so anyone that has root on their own box can simply ignore them.
[04:19] <twb> grendal-prime: we used to use webmin, too, for the same reason.  We fixed that by taking our webmin custom modules and just running them under a thin hand-written shim instead of under webmin.
[04:19] <grendal-prime> we only use it on isolated networks though
[04:19] <grendal-prime> also its one of those things were very few people have access to the admin of the tool..most have access to one module
[04:21] <grendal-prime> we are security audedted regularly by an outside source..we pass all the time..you just have to lock that bitch down..
[04:21] <grendal-prime> but i digress
[04:22] <grendal-prime> soo you dont like the way that it works with ldap though
[04:25] <grendal-prime> this is getting irratating
[04:25] <grendal-prime> we got an emp that is leaving.
[04:25] <grendal-prime> we have to change 100 or so admin passwords..
[04:26] <grendal-prime> and that blows..and ..we may wind up with 100 more servers.
[04:26] <grendal-prime> i want to get this nailed down now.
[04:27] <grendal-prime> was thinking about radius as well
[04:28] <grendal-prime> but that seems somewhat complicated
[04:35] <Knightwise> morning everyone
[04:37] <Knightwise> hey pehden
[04:37] <Knightwise> does anyone have an idea how to change the default port on Owncloud away from port 80 ?
[04:41] <andol> Knightwise: A quick look at ownclouds suggests it just being PHP running from Apache, etc? Shouldn't it just be to change the Apache port config then?
[04:43] <Knightwise> yeah , but i opened up the apache config in webmin and it doesnt show owncloud as a seperate virtual host.
[04:49] <twb> 14:25 <grendal-prime> we have to change 100 or so admin passwords..
[04:49] <twb> grendal-prime: key-based auth
[04:50] <twb> With monkeysphere they can be revoked; alternatively you can cheat and use the ssh blacklist patches (but they're Ubuntu/Debian-specific)
[04:53] <grendal-prime> ya its not that simple though
[05:06] <twb> grendal-prime: not in your current setup, no
[05:06] <twb> But here, when someone leaves, I add their SSH key to the blacklist .deb and it's automatically installed on all hosts by the unattended-upgrades package
[05:06] <twb> When I get around to adding my PPA to my customer's machines, they'll get it, too
[05:07] <twb> Of course, that won't stop a malicious staffer from adding back-doors in advance.
[05:07] <grendal-prime> ya
[05:08] <grendal-prime> on a side note ...did you know that margaritas at this hour (even in california) is something that is frowned upon?
[05:08] <grendal-prime> and...there is no more wine
[05:08] <grendal-prime> im going to sleep
[05:09] <grendal-prime> i have to. because of this bezar social glitch
[05:09] <grendal-prime> night all
[05:27] <fosterdv> twb, are you still around?
[05:28] <twb> fosterdv: what do you want
[05:29] <fosterdv> I was wondering if you know anything about installing ProFTPD on Ubuntu Server 11.04, and why it might be hanging during installation?
[05:29] <adam_g> roaksoax: if you get a min, would you be able to push the debdiff attached at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/+bug/990742  against openldap into -proposed?
[05:30] <twb> 12:45 <twb> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie
[05:30] <twb> fosterdv: last time I ran ftpd it was vsftpd
[05:32] <fosterdv> Ah, okay... thanks anyways.
[06:26] <ruben23> hi guys any helphow to make this run on my ubuntu-server do i need some additonal component to do this..? ---> http://sites.google.com/site/kjalleda/mysqlreplicationconsistency
[06:36] <sht3> hi everyone. this is more of a generic linux question but here it goes.. I have a server with a large mdadm raid array used for a file server and the os (ubuntu) running off of a single SSD. what i notice when the server is under any load is that commands will hang when I run them. commands like df, who, ps.. pretty much anything. I thought it would be related to disk IO but the OS SSD is not used by the file server so this doesn'
[06:37] <sht3> i can literally run "time who" like 20 times, and 8/10 times its < 0.1 real, sometimes up to 6 seconds though.
[06:45] <Knightwise> anyone have any experience with Mumble server ?
[06:56] <ttx> adam_g: the value would be have an environment that you can evolve
[06:57] <ttx> adam_g: devstack is a start and an end to itself, it uses specific branches and installs in non-LHS compliant places
[06:58] <ttx> I'd very much prefer if the devs (at least those running Ubuntu) would use Juju to bootstrap an all-in-one locally, which would use proper Ubuntu packages... and could potentially be made to evolve into a multi-node setup by adding new nodes and relations
[06:59] <ttx> It sounds like a worthwhile target to encourage devs to run Juju & proper Ubuntu packages, as that's where the mindset starts
[07:34] <ttx> adam_g: so I think it warrants its own session. Something like "Promote OpenStack charm as a dev/tester bootstrap environment"
[07:35] <koolhead17> ttx, +1
[07:47] <viegasfh> hello everyone
[07:48] <viegasfh> I have just installed Ubuntu Server 12.04LTS and I have noticed that it takes longer to boot than 10.04LTS
[07:48] <viegasfh> is there a way to get disable the logging that shows in the screen at startup?
[07:50] <viegasfh> I have already tried to search on google but only found how to disable sound on startup
[07:50] <viegasfh> can someone help me with this?
[07:53] <twb> viegasfh: what kind of logging
[07:59] <viegasfh> when you boot you get the screen where you can pick either normal boot or the safe mode
[08:00] <twb> viegasfh: on a server install?
[08:00] <viegasfh> after that all the dmesg logs show up on the screen
[08:00] <viegasfh> I want it to go straigth to the login screen, and skip this one
[08:00] <viegasfh> yes, server install
[08:00] <viegasfh> ok with the desktop
[08:00] <viegasfh> don't get that on the desktop
[08:00] <twb> viegasfh: if you're getting that, there is something wrong
[08:00] <viegasfh> and never noticed that on 10.04
[08:01] <viegasfh> I am running it on vmware
[08:01] <_ruben> and you cant *skip* it, as what you see is realtime
[08:01] <viegasfh> well, not really skip, but stop it from showing on screen
[08:01] <viegasfh> I can always go to the logs and see what went wrong
[08:03] <viegasfh> I checked the logs and the system seems to be running ok
[08:03] <viegasfh> it is just that it has been a long, long time since  I noticed all the logs on screen, in similar fashion to CentOS or Red Hat
[08:03] <viegasfh> or FreeBSD
[08:52] <lynxman> morning o/
[09:04] <cultavix> good morning
[09:05] <twb> I guess if you remove "splash" from grub options but keep "quiet" it will not output much
[09:05] <twb> I remove both so that I actually see *useful* bootup messages
[09:09] <Jeeves_> root@otrs:~# lsb_release -a
[09:09] <Jeeves_> No LSB modules are available.
[09:09] <Jeeves_> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
[09:09] <Jeeves_> Description:	Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS
[09:09] <Jeeves_> Release:	10.04
[09:09] <Jeeves_> Codename:	lucid
[09:09] <Jeeves_> root@otrs:~# do-release-upgrade
[09:09] <Jeeves_> Checking for a new ubuntu release
[09:09] <Jeeves_> No new release found
[09:09] <Jeeves_> That's odd
[09:10] <xnox> Jeeves_: lts->lts upgrades start with 12.04.1 (NB!)
[09:10] <Jeeves_> wtf?
[09:10]  * xnox it's always been like this.
[09:11] <Jeeves_> Ehm, not that I know off.
[09:11] <Jeeves_> But ok.
[09:11] <xnox> lts->lts upgrades need testing & ironing upgrade bugs out.
[09:11] <twb> xnox: oh is *that* why
[09:11] <twb> I didn't realize that was official policy, I thought it was just me being sensible
[09:11] <Jeeves_> xnox: I thought that was why we had beta's and stuff
[09:12] <twb> Jeeves_: .0 releases are always bullshit
[09:12]  * xnox and 0day SRU & updates....
[09:12] <twb> I don't mean in ubuntu, i mean in anything
[09:52] <ttx> Daviey, zul, adam_g: thread for you @ https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg11152.html
[11:58] <spajderix> hi
[12:00] <spajderix> I broke my OS, and now I'm desperatly trying to fix this, to make long story short I made it to the point where apt-get install -f wants to fix a lot of packages but after retrieving them I get: E: Couldn't configure pre-depend libc6 for findutils, probably a dependency cycle. Anybody knows how to fix this?
[12:58] <zul> good morning
[12:59] <Sandbag> evening
[13:07] <Sandbag> Can any one in here recomend an irc server daemon for ubuntu server?
[13:07] <Sandbag> I read that ircd-hybrid is no longer updated
[13:09] <zul> jamespage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ubuntu-testing/+bug/994572
[13:10] <jamespage> zul: not done that yet
[13:10] <jamespage> need to switch to maas first - sorry
[13:10] <zul> jamespage: yeah just filed a bug to nag you
[13:10] <mardraum> Sandbag: the one you know best man. since you are interested in hybrid, which was popular on efnet, maybe you want to look at ratbox.
[13:13] <Sandbag> Thanks mardum - thats the one I was lead to.  Here goes nothing...
[13:15] <Sandbag> *mardraum even ;)
[13:59] <xpistos> Hello all. I can't find the .torrent for Ubuntu Server 12.04. Can anyone put me in the right direction?
[14:00] <hallyn> SpamapS: were you going to look at bug 988394 (upstart job woes)
[14:00] <xpistos> oh wait
[14:00] <xpistos> I think I found it - http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/ubuntu-12.04-server-i386.iso.torrent
[14:00] <xpistos> sorry
[14:29] <SpamapS> hallyn: looking now
[14:36] <SpamapS> hallyn: looks like slangasek commented. I think he's right. the stop on should be 'stop on deconfiguring-networking'
[15:29] <zul> hallyn: starting the libvirt merge now
[15:32] <hallyn> zul: cool
[15:56] <ttx> adam_g: around ?
[15:59] <hallyn> kirkland: around?
[16:00] <claude2> if i have a running process referencing a symlink, then change what that link points to, does anyone know what the still-running proceses sees?
[16:00] <hallyn> kirkland: fwiw, for q i'm about to merge debian's seabios.  previously we always had our own.  but since we'll merge debian's qemu-kvm too (hopefully)...
[16:00] <hallyn> well, maybe i should wait until after the uds session
[16:00] <hallyn> all right you've convinced me, i'll wait :)
[16:02] <hallyn> claude2: if by 'referencing a symlink' you mean it has opened the file it points to, then it won't see a change
[16:02] <hallyn> the open file is to the target inode
[16:03] <claude2> awesome. thanks hallyn
[16:19] <JamesB> Howdy... I've used aptitude to add the apparmor package, but aa-status still says apparmor module is not loaded
[16:19] <JamesB> This is with 12.04
[16:19] <JamesB> Any idea why this might be?
[16:21] <hallyn> JamesB: shouldn't even have needed to add apparmor package....  how did you install the system?
[16:23] <JamesB> It's just a standard Linode install
[16:23] <JamesB> Do you think they screwed it up somehow, then?
[16:25] <hallyn> Dunno - what does 'grep -i apparmor /boot/config*' show?
[16:25] <hallyn> and what is in /proc/cmdline
[16:26] <JamesB> root=/dev/xvda xencons=tty console=tty1 console=hvc0 nosep nodevfs ramdisk_size=32768 ip_conntrack.hashsize=8192 nf_conntrack.hashsize=8192 ro  devtmpfs.mount=1
[16:26] <JamesB> and there is no directory /boot/config
[16:27] <JamesB> lsb_release -a shows 12.04... however oddly uname -a shows kernel 3.0.18
[16:28] <JamesB> whereas Wikipedia suggests it should have kernel 3.2.14... very strange really
[16:28] <hallyn> Yeah I'm guessing the xen kernel there doesn't have apparmor enabled
[16:29] <hallyn> mount | grep security ?
[16:29] <hallyn> then look under that directory.  (hopefully it's /sys/kernel/security)
[16:29] <hallyn> if it doesn't have 'apparmor' then the kernel doesn't have it
[16:30] <hallyn> ask linode if they can enable it i guess...
[16:33] <JamesB> mount lists nothing
[16:34] <JamesB> How very annoying. Rackspace didn't have these screwy kernel problems. Teach me to try saving $5 :P
[16:50] <jkyle> how can I get the dependencies for a .deb?
[16:51] <gary_poster> jkyle, look at apt-cache
[16:52] <jkyle> for a .deb file?
[16:52] <gary_poster> hm, of a .deb, jkyle; may or may not work, but worth a check
[16:52] <gary_poster> yeah prob not sorry
[16:52] <jkyle> :)
[16:53] <jkyle> yeah, it searches for a package with name "foo.deb"
[16:54] <Tzunamii> dpkg -I file.deb
[16:54] <oal> I upgraded my server to 12.04 but it no longer connects to the internet after a reboot. Any ideas?
[16:54] <resno> oal: does it have an ip/ nic is active and working?
[16:54] <resno> can you ping it?
[16:55] <oal> resno: nope
[16:55] <resno> if its disappeared, can you login on the phyiscial machine?
[16:56] <oal> resno: yes, I have logged in to the physical machine, ifconfig tells me it has no ip
[16:56] <resno> do you know which eth is your connection on?
[16:56] <oal> I'm not a command line ninja, so maybe this is just a one liner to get it fixed
[16:56] <oal> resno: eth0?
[16:56] <resno> ifconfig eth0 up
[16:57] <resno> i think that should do it
[16:57] <oal> resno: no difference, I'm afraid
[16:58] <resno> how did it respond?
[16:58] <oal> No errors or anything, it just ran the command
[16:58] <Tzunamii> Sounds like a driver issue
[16:58] <resno> and so it begins... :(
[16:58] <Tzunamii> jkyle: Did you get my response earlier?
[16:59] <oal> resno: This is a hp laptop (yes, a laptop, but I use it because it gives me an hour extra before it suddenly cuts off).
[17:00] <oal> ... in case of a power outage
[17:00] <gary_poster> hallyn, we had an unusual lxc-start-ephemeral issue today: dhcp leases file didn't exist.  We already wait up to 30 seconds for it to exist.  Should we just up the timeout, or would something like lxcip help, or would you be suspicious of something else?  If it helps, the pertinent bit in the script is http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/967318/ .  The last "if" in the excerpt was false.
[17:01] <oal> I'll try to reboot it and see if it magically fixes itself
[17:03] <oal> Wow, it did...
[17:08] <resno> oal: cool
[17:11] <stgraber> jjohansen: hey there. Are you aware that the kernel currently in quantal gives stacktraces when starting an LXC container (seems to be related to apparmor/audit), /etc/init.d/apparmor reload is also very slow and complains about the network rules
[17:11] <stgraber> jjohansen: (I know it's very very early in the quantal cycle and I shouldn't be expecting things to be stable/working at this point ;))
[17:11] <stgraber> I guess I'll just install Precise's kernel for now
[17:11] <jjohansen> stgraber: nope I haven't poked at quantal at all
[17:12] <jjohansen> stgraber: but thanks for the heads up, that means something upstream is probably broken
[17:12]  * jjohansen hasn't checked that recently either
[17:12] <stgraber> jjohansen: ok, let me pastebin my dmesg, maybe you'll see something obviously broken in there :)
[17:13] <stgraber> jjohansen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/967351
[17:14] <jjohansen> sigh, yeah audit. eparis pushed out a patch changing lsm audit that affected apparmor and /me never got a chance to look at/check it :(
[17:16] <stgraber> jjohansen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/967358/ is what apparmor reload gives me on quantal :)
[17:17] <jjohansen> stgraber: yeah it seems the kt dropped a patch when it failed to apply
[17:18]  * jjohansen will kick them for not pinging /me to fix it
[17:18] <stgraber> ok :)
[17:23] <Gallomimia> can someone explain to me how to get an apache install going? i don't even know what to enter into apt tools to see if it's installed :/
[17:24] <jpds> Gallomimia: sudo apt-get install apache2
[17:25] <Gallomimia> ahhhhh twooooo
[17:25] <Gallomimia> thanks
[17:26] <Pinkamena_D> i am running ubuntu server for about half a year now and recently this has been happening maybe a day or so of server uptime : May  4 11:51:57 xseries kernel: [174049.008015] INFO: rcu_bh_state detected stalls on CPUs/tasks: { 7} (detected by 6, t=4653300 jiffies)
[17:26] <Pinkamena_D> anyone know how to fix?
[17:27] <Gallomimia> what release of ubuntu server is running?
[17:27] <Pinkamena_D> the one before the most recent 11.something
[17:27] <Pinkamena_D> i know thats not helpful uhh
[17:27] <Gallomimia> no it is. it only came out 1 week ago
[17:27] <Gallomimia> some people like to wait more than 1 week before upgrading
[17:28] <Pinkamena_D> 11.10 generic
[17:28] <Gallomimia> the more adoption a product has, the bigger upswing there is between tested bugs and found bugs upon release (as in, by users instead of testers)
[17:29] <Pinkamena_D> anyways that error shows up every 15 minutes or so, and i cant do anything on the server. Background htings like the web server and ftp server keep working, but if i type any commands they do nothing. i have to reboot it
[17:29] <hallyn> gary_poster: i think using lxc-ip would be best
[17:29] <zul> hallyn: merging libvirt is not fun
[17:30] <Pinkamena_D> i can paste the whole syslog is that would help
[17:30] <hallyn> zul: i know :)  did you look at my old 0.9.9 merge for a start?
[17:30] <hallyn> i assume you're doing 0.9.11 now or somesuch
[17:30] <zul> hallyn: no i just went straight to 0.9.11
[17:30] <hallyn> ok
[17:31] <zul> hallyn: 32 lines for chanelog entry so far
[17:31] <hallyn> zul: do you see any bits there that we can push back to debian?
[17:31] <zul> one or two patches so far
[17:32] <hallyn> why do we use libvirtd for group when debian continues to use libvirt, for instance?
[17:32] <gary_poster> hallyn, that's what I thought.  We can make a version of lxc-start-ephemeral that does this.  That won't help Precise though, right?  Not sure if a fix for this kind of problem would even be considered SRU material, and if so, I's guess that a solution that added an entirely new script would not be an easy sell.
[17:33] <hallyn> i think it greatly improves a bug in lxc-start-ephemeral to use lxc-ip for it, and therefore we may be able to get lxc-ip in as part of that fix
[17:33] <hallyn> stgraber: ^ what od you think?
[17:33] <stgraber> hallyn: reading backscroll
[17:34] <Gallomimia> does this have anything to do with it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/855684
[17:36] <Gallomimia> Pinkamena_D: seems this bug is related and possibly means it's a kernel bug
[17:37] <stgraber> hallyn: not sure what's the qestion/problem here. AFAIK lxc-start-ephemeral doesn't currently provide you with the IP address, so I don't see how you'd justify adding lxc-ip through an SRU
[17:37] <stgraber> unless I'm missing something here
[17:37] <Pinkamena_D> so, is thewir anything i can do
[17:38] <Pinkamena_D> that does look like almost the same bug
[17:38] <Pinkamena_D> i assums the 0 is replaced with a 7 in mine because thats the cpu core that is stalled?
[17:40] <gary_poster> stgraber, it needs to get an ip address, so it can ssh into the container, in the absence of lxc-attach.  it currently gets the ip address with a dhcp lease parsing hack.  using lxcip, we hope, would be less hacky and more robust.
[17:41] <Gallomimia> Pinkamena_D: find more. perhaps someone who knows more about the cpu stall bug will pipe up in here
[17:42] <gary_poster> (you are correct that it does not provide the user with the IP address; it is a consumer of the IP address)
[17:42] <stgraber> gary_poster: right, but looking at the dhcp lease file isn't something the lxc package does at the moment, it's something you're doing. So you should be carrying lxcip if you want to have it reliable, I don't see a reason for us to SRU it in the lxc package
[17:42] <stgraber> we certainly want that fixed in 12.10 though and hopefully we'll have an official python module then
[17:42] <Gallomimia> Pinkamena_D: compare your kernel version to the versions discussed in that bug. i think it's ubuntu cause google got searched. but make sure. there seems to be a fix present
[17:42] <stgraber> and can then backport 12.10's LXC to 12.04
[17:43] <gary_poster> stgraber, lxc-start-ephemeral is in ubuntu's lxc; is the distinction you are making that it is not upstream?
[17:45] <stgraber> gary_poster: no, the distinction I'm making is that lxc-start-ephemeral doesn't deal with IP addresses at all, so the fact that looking at the dhcpd lease file isn't reliable isn't an LXC bug
[17:45] <stgraber> adding lxcip to lxc post-release would be adding a new feature, not fixing a bug
[17:47] <hallyn> stgraber: i'd argue that ssh'ing into the container is a core part of lxc-start-ephemeral.  when that doesn't work it's broken/worthless
[17:47] <gary_poster> right, that's kind of where I was about to go
[17:48] <stgraber> hallyn: IIRC lxc-start-ephemeral gives you the container name and the matching lxc-console call, not it's IP and ssh command
[17:50] <hallyn> stgraber: it does also do that, but it's main purpose was to be able to run a command in a ephemeral container as in 'lxc-start-ephemeral <args> -- dosomething'
[17:51] <hallyn> still i certainly agree adding a new program is not to be taking lightly :)
[17:51] <hallyn> gary_poster: any ideas on why the leases file wasn't created?
[17:51] <stgraber> hallyn: oh, now that I actually looked at lxc-start-ephemeral code, what you two are saying makes sense :)
[17:51] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:51] <stgraber> hallyn: so yeah, adding lxcip instead of messing with the lease in
[17:51] <stgraber> lxc-start-ephemeral sounds good
[17:52] <hallyn> sru time might of course still disagree :)  but it's definately the less hacky fix
[17:53] <stgraber> yeah, and I know some people will be happy to have lxcip in 12.04 ;)
[17:53] <stgraber> highvoltage: ^ :)
[17:53] <rockets> Psi-Jack, are you here :-D
[17:53] <Psi-Jack> barely
[17:53] <rockets> lol
[17:53] <gary_poster> hallyn, the only thing I could figure was that the (EC2) machine was under heavy load (seven other lxcs initializing and running things inside them) and 30 seconds was not enough.  I've gotten two of those failures today so I'm trying to simply bump the timeout up to 60 to test that hypothesis.
[17:55] <Gallomimia> Pinkamena_D: did you find out what kernel your server is running?
[17:55] <gary_poster> hallyn, stgraber: fixing with lxcip: cool, we can make a first stab at it if that helps.  I'll file a bug now.
[17:57] <Pinkamena_D> how do you find that out
[17:58] <Gallomimia> hm. i'm not too sure. i'm a bit of a noob.
[17:58] <Pinkamena_D> me too
[17:58] <Pinkamena_D> ;)
[17:59] <Pinkamena_D> be back in a little bit...
[17:59] <Gallomimia> alright let's be noob together. go find out how in some manuals. i think a related command is called uname
[17:59] <bazhang> uname -r
[17:59] <Gallomimia> ty bazhang
[18:01] <Gallomimia> amazing. i completely couldn't remember uname until you caused me to think about it Pinkamena_D.
[18:03] <highvoltage> stgraber: hehe
[18:03] <highvoltage> (indeed)
[18:13] <RamJett> How do I make sure all the dependencies, like network, database, etc. are running before a service starts. I'm having a problem with glance-registry loading before the network dev and database is up. So I then have to go in and manually start after a reboot
[18:15] <Patrickdk> just edit the upstart script in /etc/init to make sure it depends on networking and database
[18:15] <Patrickdk> I did that for postfix, to depend on dovecot being up, works so much better now
[18:15] <Patrickdk> since postfix won't start if dovecot auth file doesn't exist
[18:16] <RamJett> Where do I get documentation on the /etc/init/*.conf syntax. I've messed with it, but something isn't right.
[18:18] <RamJett> I changed "start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=eth2)" it was "start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo)" .. I still have the problem
[18:20] <RamJett> It also has "respawn" set. Which seems to work for glance-api .. but not glance-registry
[18:35] <JamesB> Is there any way with AppArmor to determine what file a DENIED dac_override capability is for?
[18:48] <adam_g> RamJett: what version of glance are you using? that was fixed upstream to retry database connection on startup, to avoid what you are seeing
[18:48] <Aison> after upgrade to precise, I get this error when I try to start mysql server
[18:48] <Aison> init: mysql pre-start process (7861) terminated with status 1
[18:48] <Aison> no idea what's up
[18:51] <RamJett> adam_g: glance 2012.1 . It's what is latest LTS 12.04 . I will see what the upstream looks like
[18:51] <adam_g> RamJett: its the same. what does /var/log/glance/glance-registry.log show during its failed startup?
[18:55] <RamJett> adam_g: Not sure right now on exact error, but something about not being able to bind, syslog log says "init: glance-registry main process (1435) terminated with status 1" ..rep 11ist times "glance-registry respawning too fast, stopped"
[18:57] <RamJett> glance-registry error .. Error configuring registry database with supplied sql_connection ... (OperationalError) could not connect to server: Connection refused"
[18:59] <RamJett> adam_g: biggest difference than most I think. I'm running with postgresql instead of mysql that most online docs use
[19:08] <adam_g> RamJett: hmm, yeah, the workaround to get glance started up with database retries is mysql-specific. can you file a bug? we should get get that fixed for postres too
[19:08] <thomasu> anyone familiar with dovecot here?
[20:11] <RamJett> So I put a 3 second sleep in there so the respawn won't fail because of respawn too fast. But I will see about filing a bug for it. I imagine all the openstack processes are complaining on startup
[20:14] <RamJett> adam_g: Do you know where the mysql specific bug got filed? So I can do in the same place.
[20:48] <adam_g> RamJett: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/5938/
[20:48] <RamJett> thank
[20:48] <adam_g> RamJett: the fix is outside of packaging/upstart and in the actual glance-registry itself
[20:50] <adam_g> Daviey: around?
[22:15] <stgraber> hallyn: hmm, I'm sure I saw someone mention this in the past, but why exactly isn't "lxc.aa_profile = unconfined" working in 12.04?
[22:15] <hallyn> uh, it is.  should be.
[22:16] <hallyn> not for lxc-execute
[22:16] <hallyn> oh no, that is the only one that *does* work for lxc-execute :)
[22:16] <stgraber> root@castiana:~# sudo lxc-start -n ubucloud-precise
[22:16] <stgraber> lxc-start: No such file or directory - failed to change apparmor profile to unconfined
[22:16] <hallyn> oh, right,
[22:16] <stgraber> (noticed that when trying the examples from my upcoming blog post ;))
[22:16] <hallyn> i think jjohansen was pushing a fix
[22:16] <hallyn> jjohansen: ^
[22:17] <stgraber> I'm talking about LXC nesting, but for cgroup-lite to work, I need to move to unconfined (easier than writing a custom profile for it)
[22:17] <jjohansen> stgraber, hallyn: yep its one of the fixes that is coming
[22:18] <stgraber> jjohansen: cool, I'll work around it for now by linking an apparmor profile that's working with nesting then.
[22:21] <hallyn> stgraber: jjohansen: ppa:serge-hallyn/userns-natty shoudl soon have a new quantal kernel with eric's userns patches ready for testing, btw
[22:21] <hallyn> jjohansen: what's the approx eta on the unconfined fixes/
[22:22] <jjohansen> hallyn: hrmm, let me pester kt
[22:26] <jjohansen> hallyn: well it will depend on the timing of the next kernel upload, I expect next week to mess things up a little
[22:27] <hallyn> ok, thanks.  (i just ahd figured it would've happened this past week)
[22:38] <stgraber> hallyn: still working on my apparmor profile for nested containers, I think we should include it in the lxc package for quantal once it's done, so people have an example of an alternate profile
[22:45] <hallyn> stgraber: sounds great
[23:07] <RamJett> Does anyone know a good Fiber 1000base NIC that works with Ubuntu? It needs to be Multi Mode
[23:12] <Patrickdk> ramjett, pretty much any?
[23:12] <Patrickdk> just get an intel one :)
[23:15] <RamJett> Nice. I've always used ImageStream routers in the past if I needed them with fiber, but the company I'm working with now needs me to get it from Dell. Dell just told me .. the do not know any 1000base fiber .. let us know a part number and we'll see if they are one of our vendor. They did mention Intel being one
[23:49] <stgraber> hallyn: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/05/04/lxc-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/ <-- will be appearing on Planet Ubuntu in a few minutes


[11:57] <ikt> hey jared ?
[12:35] <jared> ikt: here for a second
[12:40] <jared> ikt: I sent you a forum message from my new forum account
[12:40] <jared> Feel free to either leave a message here, pm me, email me or respond to that. I will be back later on just in th emiddle of things at the moment
[12:43] <ikt> sweet


[00:06] <hggdh> bug 521198
[00:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521198 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Can't zoom text in chat windows. (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521198
[00:35] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: that bug seems to me like they want web browser like zoom feature.. which would be wishlist.. and I'll request them to send it upstream
[00:41] <hggdh> bcurtiswx: indeed and I did mark it wish
[00:48] <bcurtiswx> did the opening ceremonies of the olympics already start?
[00:49] <hggdh> IDN.  I cannot even find the channel here...
[00:59] <maxb> gstreamer has so many source packages... is there a sensible central one to files bugs against for further triage?
[01:12] <ddecator> bug 485352, wishlist please (even though i know it probably won't get considered)
[01:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 485352 in window-picker-applet (Ubuntu) (and 6 other projects) "The Window List Applet in GNOME should offer a setting to permanently set an X number of rows (affects: 1)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485352
[01:13] <hggdh> maxb: idk
[01:13] <maxb> I suppose I could just file it on totem and hope
[01:13] <hggdh> :-)
[01:13] <hggdh> maxb: let me do a quick check
[01:14] <maxb> The bugs are specific to DVD playback if that matters
[01:16] <hggdh> no, I cannot find a ref to it... might be good to set one up if we get enough information about it
[01:50] <nigelb> There is a bug reported about rhythmbox which I can confirm but I'm not sure if its a feature.  what should I do>
[01:52] <wgrant> nigelb: Which is it?
[01:53] <nigelb> bug 521199
[01:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521199 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox fails to play songs the first time if they are not imported to library (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521199
[01:54] <wgrant> That sounds like a bug.
[01:55] <nigelb> okay :), I'll report upstream
[01:55] <nigelb> I was confused whether rhythmbox adding to library before playing was a feature
[01:58] <kklimonda> nigelb, I wonder - it isn't a feature but may be a design decision ;)
[01:59] <nigelb> kklimonda, well, looks like people have already complained.  There is an exising upstream bug
[01:59] <nigelb> I like this feature.  they needed to just add an option to enable/disable it
[02:00] <kklimonda> nigelb, it's my guess but they are probably going to respond that to play single files totem should be used
[02:00] <nigelb> kklimonda, beauty of it is, they can't
[02:01] <nigelb> kklimonda, downstream might, but not upstream ;)
[02:03] <kklimonda> they can mark the bug as a WON'T FIX though
[02:03] <nigelb> I hope not
[02:06] <ddecator> gnome seems to like the "WON'T FIX" status =p
[02:06] <nigelb> what does editable menus mean?
[02:06] <nigelb> bug 513691
[02:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 513691 in totem (Ubuntu) "Editable menu shortcut keys (Appearance > Interface) do not work as expected (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513691
[02:07] <nigelb> step 1 is "Enable editable menus" and I have no clue how to enable them ;)
[02:07] <ddecator> nigelb, i'm guessing they mean to right-click the gnome menus and select "edit menus"
[02:07] <ddecator> nigelb, then change the command for the app? i haven't looked at the full report yet
[02:07] <nigelb> ddecator, for editing the totem menu?
[02:08] <nigelb> he wants to change the menu inside an app
[02:08] <nigelb> I never knew that was even possible
[02:08] <ddecator> ah, i see that now...
[02:10] <nigelb> hggdh, any idea how it is possible to "set editable menus"?
[02:10] <hggdh> er, what?
[02:10] <hggdh> I see
[02:10] <hggdh> hold on
[02:11] <ddecator> maybe it's a plugin?
[02:11] <nigelb> doubt
[02:12] <hggdh> OK. Help me -- which entry in the menu is totem? (so that I can run it)
[02:12] <ddecator> hggdh, just run 'totem' in the terminal
[02:12] <nigelb> movie player
[02:13] <ddecator> or that...
[02:13] <hggdh> I hate this idea of mascarading the binary name
[02:13]  * ddecator agrees
[02:13] <nigelb> hehe, well new users dont want to learn new names
[02:14] <nigelb> (I never knew Lp's bug tracker was called malone until I filed a bug against it)
[02:14] <hggdh> nigelb: I am very sorry, but I have no idea.
[02:14] <nigelb> hggdh, so do I
[02:14]  * hggdh rarely uses sound thingies
[02:14] <ddecator> it's known as malone?
[02:15] <nigelb> ddecator, lol
[02:15] <nigelb> yeah
[02:15] <ddecator> how did they come up with that?
[02:16] <nigelb> donno.  the basketball player?
[02:17] <nigelb> hggdh, who's the gnome person I can talk to (besides pedro) ?
[02:19] <nigelb> ddecator, I can only figure out soyuz's naming..
[02:21] <hggdh> nigelb: there are many gnome persons
[02:21] <hggdh> you mean about totem?
[02:21] <nigelb> heah
[02:21] <nigelb> yeah
[02:22] <hggdh> see who signed the package -- chances are it's the one
[02:22] <nigelb> you mean he/she 's the one?
[02:23] <ddecator> or s/he
[02:33] <hggdh> s/he
[02:33] <nigelb> seb
[02:33] <nigelb> ah, have to wait till he comes on
[02:48] <nigelb> do we support skype?
[02:49] <ddecator> it's on medibuntu
[02:49] <kermiac> afternoon all :)
[02:50] <kklimonda> nigelb, not really - medibuntu does that
[02:50] <ddecator> evenin' kermiac
[02:50] <kklimonda> ach, ddecator said that already
[02:50] <ddecator> kklimonda, np =)
[02:50] <nigelb> kklimonda, a bug filed against skype is invalid or valid?
[02:51] <kermiac> ddecator: just saw bug 521003 - i think i've seen something similar before but can't remember the bug #
[02:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521003 in apport (Ubuntu) "Bug reporting broken (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521003
[02:52] <kklimonda> nigelb, what's bug number?
[02:52] <ddecator> kermiac, i plan to find a dupe after i get info and make the OP feel better about the ubuntu community ;)
[02:52] <nigelb> bug 521247
[02:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521247 in totem (Ubuntu) "no sound is heard when I play the sound files from skype (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521247
[02:52] <kermiac> good plan :)
[02:52] <ddecator> nigelb, yah skype doesnt like pulse
[02:52] <kermiac> nigelb: didn't skype have known issues
[02:52] <nigelb> donno, I dont use skype
[02:53] <kermiac> but there was an update, ver 1,1 or something should have fixed the PA issues
[02:53] <ddecator> let me see what i have installed..
[02:53] <nigelb> I dont follow mediaubuntu at all
[02:53] <kklimonda> nigelb, you should probably close the bug and tell the reporter that if he uses version provided by medibuntu he should report a bug by following https://launchpad.net/medibuntu/+filebug link
[02:54] <ddecator> i have the skype 2.1 beta installed, works fine
[02:54] <kklimonda> nigelb, if he has installed it from skype.com there isn't much we can do and he should contact them
[02:54] <nigelb> kklimonda, yeah.  I can't even change the package
[02:54]  * ddecator doesn't remember how he installed skype...
[02:55] <kermiac> it wasn't ver 1.1, it was ver 2.1 that fixed the PA issues
[02:55] <kermiac> http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2009/09/some_explanations.html
[02:56] <kermiac> my boss was going nuts before it got fixed
[02:56] <ddecator> kermiac, yah it was really bad
[02:57] <hggdh> kklimonda: can't we just forward the bug to medibuntu?
[02:57] <nigelb> hggdh, I tried.  Don't see how
[02:58] <nigelb> I can't change the package to skype.  It was filed under totem
[02:58] <kklimonda> hggdh, I'm not sure whenever this is a medibuntu package at all as the reporter said that "None of the avaialbe versions of skype work on the toshipa satellite laptop".
[02:58] <ddecator> idk that medibuntu has 2.1 yet
[02:58] <nigelb> well, we dont deal with it and thats about it
[02:59] <ddecator> seems like it
[02:59] <kklimonda> hggdh, hmm.. can we change package to skype?
[02:59] <hggdh> very much doubt. You can try, at least
[02:59] <kklimonda> hggdh, I was under the impression that we can only change package to another package in Ubuntu distribution but now I see that there is a skype package in the Choose menu
[03:00] <kklimonda> lets see what is going to happen
[03:00] <kklimonda> nope
[03:00] <kklimonda> hggdh, so I see no way of forwarding it to Medibuntu as totem's upstream is GNOME :)
[03:00] <ddecator> kklimonda, i have ff 3.7 show up as an option because i have it installed, but it won't let me assign a bug to that package since it isn't officially in the repos
[03:00] <nigelb> kklimonda, I tried and failed some time
[03:00] <kklimonda> and Medibuntu isn't a distribution
[03:00] <hggdh> eh? isn't it about skype?
[03:01] <nigelb> hggdh, the bug was filed under totem
[03:01] <kklimonda> hggdh, sure it is - but the bug was reported using totem ;)
[03:01] <ddecator> hggdh, is there any way you know of to fix it so you can't search for a package not in the repos?
[03:02] <hggdh> ddecator: I do not follow you? not search for a package not in the repos?
[03:03] <ddecator> hggdh, if i search for a package on launchpad to assign a bug to, packages i have installed through ppas (firefox-3.7 for example) show up, but we can't assign a bug to them because they're not in the official repos
[03:03] <hggdh> oh, yes, you cannot.
[03:03] <kklimonda> yes, it seems that launchpad is using the list of all packages it knows about to populate search results :)
[03:03] <hggdh> but they exist as projects in LP
[03:04] <hggdh> might be a good idea to see if there is a bug already opened for this on LP, and open one if not
[03:04] <nigelb> kklimonda, we had that issue with ppa nots being supported
[03:04] <nigelb> err... ddecator ^^
[03:04] <hggdh> I see what you mean. We should be able to separate Ubuntu packages from non-ubuntu
[03:05] <hggdh> wait
[03:05] <ddecator> prevents confusion when assigning packages
[03:05] <hggdh> this certainly has been reported
[03:05] <ddecator> has it? i haven't looked yet haha, just thought about it
[03:06] <hggdh> the PPA and no bugs has been discussed again and again
[03:06] <kklimonda> and no -dbgsym :/
[03:11] <hggdh> well, yes, so no apport magic. But you can still either generate dbgs, or not strip the symbols
[03:12] <kklimonda> sure
[03:12] <hggdh> but this adds to the issues on accepting bugs for PPAs
[03:13] <hggdh> /usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/opt/cdunix4000/ndm/bin
[03:14] <hggdh> sorry, bad paste
[03:14] <nigelb> lol
[03:15] <hggdh> perparing another weechat GIT image for the PPA...
[03:16] <nigelb> hggdh, shutdown/restart via menu is gdm?
[03:17] <hggdh> you mena the indicator applet session?
[03:18] <nigelb> um, no... right corner clicking my name and clicking shutdown
[03:18] <nigelb> bug 521122
[03:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521122 in ubuntu "shutdown and restart button do not work (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521122
[03:18] <kklimonda> it is a indicator-something :)
[03:18] <nigelb> though I have doubts if he's using kde ... "konsole" ?
[03:18] <ddecator> konsole is terminal for kde
[03:19] <hggdh> indicator-applet-session, but I am not sure this is what the OP is talking about
[03:19] <kklimonda> or maybe not - he mentions Konsole which is KDE application
[03:19] <hggdh> this sounds like kde
[03:19] <hggdh> heh
[03:19] <nigelb> I'll ask for more info..
[03:19] <kklimonda> nigelb, mark as Incomplete and ask for Ubuntu version, DE version etc.
[03:20] <ddecator> asking for info is always the safe route =)
[03:20] <kklimonda> (DE == Desktop Environment)
[03:20] <hggdh> yes
[03:20] <nigelb> kklimonda, ok :)
[03:20] <hggdh> would lsb_release -a state if it is kde?
[03:20] <kklimonda> hggdh, not sure but I would say no
[03:21] <kklimonda> hggdh, it uses /etc/lsb-release which is provided only by lsb-release
[03:21] <hggdh> ah well
[03:22] <nigelb> hggdh, btw, I learned how to write an apport hook :)
[03:22] <hggdh> good!
[03:23] <nigelb> hggdh, though after I spent 4 hours writing one, I realized that the lucid package already had one :p
[03:23] <ddecator> nigelb, still good practice =)
[03:23] <nigelb> ddecator, yep.  It was fun!
[03:23] <hggdh> well, at least you learned some -- which is always good
[03:23] <nigelb> hggdh, thinking of contributing to a few active universe packages that way.. lernid for starters
[03:24]  * ddecator wants to learn more about debugging and the like
[03:24] <hggdh> good, any involvement is good -- we need it ;-)
[03:24] <nigelb> :)
[03:24] <nigelb> ddecator, get a source and hack through it
[03:24] <kklimonda> heh, never enough bug triagers :)
[03:25] <ddecator> nigelb, i'm working on learning basic python first so i can understand the scripts, haha
[03:25] <nigelb> ddecator, hehe.. I only know basic python and basic c and c++
[03:26] <nigelb> almost all programming languages look alike after some time
[03:26] <hggdh> python is easy, and a good language to learn first
[03:26] <nigelb> hggdh, you get a mail every time I report a bug in gnome?
[03:26] <ddecator> good, i'm teaching myself, i have almost no electives at school haha
[03:26] <hggdh> nigelb: yes, I do. I told you I would be following you
[03:26] <nigelb> ddecator, byte of python?
[03:26] <nigelb> hggdh, must've gotten quite a few this week
[03:27] <hggdh> a bit, yes. Part of the game. I want to try getting you more rights in b.z.o when I feel you are good enough for it
[03:27] <hggdh> b.g.o
[03:27] <kklimonda> hggdh, but I feel that "Ubuntu" is overly promote it - it's great language but I really hate seeing all those applets and daemons using so much ram
[03:28] <kklimonda> gwibber uses over 100MB :/
[03:28] <ddecator> nigelb, what now?
[03:28] <hggdh> kklimonda: yes, but this is part of the price you pay for interpreted languages, and automaic garbage collection
[03:29] <hggdh> and, nowadays, memory is not that expensive (although I feel back when I see a memory-hungry appl all the same)
[03:29] <nigelb> ddecator, huh>
[03:29] <ddecator> nigelb, what about "byte of python"?
[03:29] <nigelb> ddecator, I asked if you were using that :)
[03:30] <nigelb> ddecator, its a book released under gpl and the first book for newbies
[03:30] <hggdh> kklimonda: and it is not only Ubuntu -- Gnome is also using quite a lot of python
[03:30] <kklimonda> hggdh, python for sure has a lover barrier of entry than C
[03:30] <hggdh> yes, -- and it is waaaayyyy better than C++
[03:30] <ddecator> nigelb, never heard of it, haha, i'm using free MIT videos from a class that uses python to show how coding works, with the emphasis of being able to recognize all code, even if you can't program with it
[03:30] <nigelb> ddecator, oh.  thats even better..link?
[03:30] <kklimonda> hggdh, don't even start with gnome - they use JavaScript for gnome-shell..
[03:30] <hggdh> heh
[03:31] <nigelb> is gnome shell coming in lucid?
[03:31] <kklimonda> nigelb, not by default
[03:31] <nigelb> ppa?
[03:31] <hggdh> is gnome-3 ready for prime time?
[03:31] <ddecator> nigelb, gnome 3 is coming in lucid+1
[03:31] <kklimonda> no
[03:31] <ddecator> (most likely)
[03:31] <kklimonda> nigelb, some old gnome-shell is already in repos
[03:31] <hggdh> sounds better
[03:31] <nigelb> ddecator, ah
[03:32] <ddecator> nigelb, http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-00Fall-2008/LectureVideos/index.htm
[03:32] <kklimonda> nigelb, but upstream haven't really released any tarballs after 2.28.0 was released
[03:32] <nigelb> ddecator, thanks
[03:32] <nigelb> kklimonda, aw :(
[03:32] <ddecator> nigelb, np
[03:32] <kklimonda> nigelb, so for now the only place to get a new gnome-shell is some ppa
[03:32] <kklimonda> nigelb, but it isn't worth the effort in my opinion
[03:32] <hggdh> +1
[03:32] <nigelb> kklimonda, I like me desktop clean, so I won't be using it
[03:33] <hggdh> too unstable
[03:33] <nigelb> if it were coming to ubuntu, I would want it to be turned off by some feature
[03:33] <ddecator> nigelb kklimonda , yah i tried it and it freaked out haha, i had a hard time switching my DE back to the standard gnome...
[03:33] <nigelb> that is also why didnt like kde or windows vista+ either
[03:33] <kklimonda> hggdh, unstable it is. But also I don't really feel that it is the right direction
[03:34] <kklimonda> hggdh, the basic ideas are interesting but overall look just doesn't convince me.
[03:34] <ddecator> they'll offer an option to switch to the standard setup
[03:34] <ddecator> (i think that's still planned...)
[03:34] <hggdh> kklimonda: I am not sure either. But it is still evolving
[03:35] <kklimonda> And I'm not convinced that it'll be ready for gnome 2.32
[03:35] <nigelb> if a bug works on lucid but not on karmic = fix released?
[03:35] <kklimonda> for sure not as the default desktop
[03:35] <kklimonda> nigelb, you mean it was fixed in lucid?
[03:35] <ddecator> i'm just worried it won't compare to compiz
[03:36] <ddecator> nigelb, you can always check the changelogs for the lucid version and see if a fix is mentioned
[03:36] <nigelb> I know its fixed
[03:36] <kklimonda> ddecator, sure - it won't have a cube
[03:36] <kklimonda> ddecator, but really, cube isn't what linux is all about (contrary to some people believes :) )
[03:36] <nigelb> kklimonda, It is not reproducible
[03:36] <ddecator> kklimonda, i'm more concerned about grid, scale, and all of those other productivity tools
[03:37] <kklimonda> nigelb, what bug number?
[03:37] <nigelb> kklimonda, bug 513691
[03:37] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 513691 in totem (Ubuntu) "Editable menu shortcut keys (Appearance > Interface) do not work as expected (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513691
[03:37] <nigelb> kklimonda, can you confirm it works on lucid too?
[03:37] <nigelb> I can confirm its broken in karmic
[03:38] <kklimonda> ddecator, grid and scale are built-in into overlay
[03:38] <kklimonda> if grid and scale are the plugins I think they are
[03:38] <kklimonda> can't check right now :)
[03:38] <ddecator> kklimonda, idk, but that'd be good news
[03:38] <hggdh> nigelb: if it works in Lucid it is fix-released. The OP may request a SRU
[03:39] <nigelb> hggdh, he's already given a rant.  How do i reply?
[03:39] <kklimonda> nigelb, what are "editable menus"?
[03:39] <nigelb> kklimonda, hehe, see the last comment
[03:39] <nigelb> hggdh, the op replied about the totem editable menus
[03:39] <ddecator> nigelb, i never knew that option was there...
[03:40] <nigelb> hggdh, what he means was editable menu shortcuts
[03:40] <nigelb> ddecator, me neither
[03:40] <kklimonda> well, as the Interface tab has been apparently removed the bug is fixed! ;)
[03:40] <nigelb> kklimonda, no interface tab? :O
[03:40] <hggdh> heh
[03:41] <kklimonda> nigelb, looks like it
[03:41] <nigelb> wonder how pedro said works fine for me
[03:41] <kklimonda> there may be another way to get to this option
[03:42] <hggdh> Pedro is most probably running Karmic
[03:42] <nigelb> pedro said works fine on lucid for this bug
[03:42] <nigelb> and the OP got mad :p
[03:43] <ddecator> haha, pedro didn't ask him to triage it himself...
[03:43] <kklimonda> nigelb, give me a sec and I'll probably find some way to test it..
[03:43] <nigelb> kklimonda, sure :)
[03:43] <nigelb> kklimonda, I'll set the bug to confirmed and you can change to fix released after you test?
[03:44] <hggdh> nigelb: did you confirm it?
[03:44] <nigelb> hggdh, on karmic, yes
[03:44] <hggdh> ok, go ahead and mark it so
[03:46] <kklimonda> btw, this is the first time I've heard about "editable shortcuts"
[03:47]  * nigelb too
[03:48] <ddecator> i don't see anything in the changelog mentioning a specific change...
[03:48] <ddecator> although idk how they would word it
[03:49] <nigelb> ddecator, you are reading totem changelog/?
[03:49] <kklimonda> ok, found it in gconf-editor
[03:49] <ddecator> nigelb, yes, for the current lucid build
[03:49] <nigelb> ddecator, this may not be a totem issue at all
[03:50] <nigelb> kklimonda, that must've taken a lot of searching
[03:50] <ddecator> nigelb, i'm not sure it is, but that's the only package i know to go on haha, but there isn't anything there
[03:50] <nigelb> ddecator, the shortcut doesnt get reassinged
[03:50] <nigelb> thats what happens...
[03:50] <kklimonda> nigelb, actually I had to check upstream bug about Interface tab removal to get a gconf name :)
[03:50] <nigelb> kklimonda, ah
[03:51] <kklimonda> nigelb, works for me
[03:51] <nigelb> kklimonda, can you set to fix released then?
[03:51] <ddecator> nigelb, right, i'm just not sure what package would be responsible for that. it could have been totem not applying the change correctly, but like i said i don't see anything mentioning it
[03:53] <ddecator> well this has been a good teamwork night, haha
[03:54] <nigelb> ddecator, hehe, yes it has :)
[03:54] <nigelb> we all learned a lot
[03:54] <nigelb> yaay! i'm finally on the 5-a-day stats page :)
[03:54] <ddecator> nigelb, congrats! i made it too =)
[03:54] <nigelb> ddecator, congrats to you too.  I just saw your name
[03:55] <ddecator> except i missed a day?! o_O
[03:56] <nigelb> later folks.  I'm off to bed :)
[03:56] <ddecator> i guess just assigning packages to bugs doesn't count? haha
[03:56] <ddecator> cya nigelb
[03:56] <kklimonda> nigelb, done
[03:56] <nigelb> kklimonda, thanks
[03:57] <nigelb> ddecator, it should count if you comment I think
[03:57] <kklimonda> nigelb, but most likely it isn't going to be fixed in Karmic. I've nominated it to keep track of the fact that it is indeed broken but we don't have enough resources to fix it.
[03:57] <ddecator> yah i didn't realize that there was a canned response for adding a package to a bug until after i did about 10 =p
[03:57] <kklimonda> ach
[05:47] <shadeslayer> hey is it possible to sync a ubuntu bug with upstream bug report?
[05:47] <ddecator> shadeslayer, usually
[05:47] <ddecator> is there a certain bug you are looking at?
[05:47] <shadeslayer> ddecator: i cant find the button :P
[05:47] <shadeslayer> ddecator: yep
[05:48] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-kde/+bug/520978
[05:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 520978 in meta-kde (Ubuntu) "KDE-4.4 upgrade causes desktop crash (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[05:48] <shadeslayer> ddecator: theres a link in the description and i was wondering how to link it
[05:49] <ddecator> shadeslayer, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage and look at "Forwarding Upstream"
[05:49] <kermiac> click on the "also affects project" button to add the upstream bug
[05:49] <shadeslayer> ah ok,thanks :)
[05:50] <ddecator> shadeslayer, i would help out with that but idk much about kde triaging
[05:50] <shadeslayer> also since upstream says its resolved,i can mark it resolved at ubuntu bugs too right
[05:52] <ddecator> depends on why they marked it resolved...
[05:52] <shadeslayer> Resolution : DOWNSTREAM
[05:53] <ddecator> let me look at it a sec
[05:53] <shadeslayer> ddecator: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=226263#c2
[05:53] <ubot4> shadeslayer: Error: Could not parse XML returned by KDE: timed out (http://bugs.kde.org/xml.cgi?id=226263)
[05:55] <ddecator> hm, idk enough about kde bugs to know how that would be classified, but ubuntu bugs don't always have the same status as the upstream bugs
[05:56] <shadeslayer> ok ill ask in kubuntu-devel then D
[05:56] <ddecator> sounds good, sorry i'm not much help
[05:57] <shadeslayer> ddecator: no problem
[05:57] <kklimonda> hey - anyone with karmic online?
[05:58]  * ddecator <-
[05:58] <ddecator> kklimonda, need a bug confirmed?
[05:58] <kklimonda> yes
[05:59] <ddecator> #?
[05:59] <kklimonda> ddecator, it's bug 513691
[05:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 513691 in totem (Ubuntu) "Editable menu shortcut keys (Appearance > Interface) do not work as expected (affects: 1)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513691
[05:59] <kklimonda> ddecator, I'm wondering whenever it's really a totem issue
[06:00] <kklimonda> ddecator, can you enable "editable menus" and check if you can change them in gedit?
[06:00] <kklimonda> ddecator, for example if you can bind Edit->Insert date and time to Ctrl+A
[06:02] <ddecator> kklimonda, oooooh, to i see what you mean. one sec
[06:02] <ddecator> -to
[06:04] <ddecator> to set it, i just hover over the option and press a key combination?
[06:04] <kklimonda> yes
[06:04] <ddecator> odd way of doing it...
[06:05] <ddecator> does nothing
[06:05] <ddecator> so it's not totem
[06:06] <kklimonda> yeah.. I've changed it to ctrl+z instead of ctrl+s and it worked but now I've played some more with it and changing it to the shortcut that is already bound to another action doesn't really work
[06:06] <kklimonda> visually it changes but old action is triggered
[06:06] <kklimonda> really weird and not related to totem :/
[06:06] <ddecator> but i have no idea what it would be related to...
[06:06]  * shadeslayer goes on triaging spree
[06:06] <ddecator> let me check something
[06:07] <ddecator> shadeslayer, are you a member or bugsquad?
[06:07] <shadeslayer> ddecator: just a launchpad user.... vying to be a member :P
[06:07] <ddecator> shadeslayer, have you checked out the wikis on how to triage and everything?
[06:07] <shadeslayer> ddecator: yep
[06:08] <shadeslayer> ddecator: although i forgot how to link the upstream bugs :P
[06:08] <shadeslayer> and the wiki is just so huge.... :D
[06:09] <ddecator> shadeslayer, it's all information triagers need to know though
[06:09] <ddecator> kklimonda, it doesn't look like it is added to the keyboard shortcuts program
[06:10] <shadeslayer> ddecator: yeah,im just starting out with small bugs... stuff like packages do not install,and small crashes that ive experienced and know how to resolve
[06:10] <ddecator> shadeslayer, ok, just don't start assigning bugs to people or anything, we've had enough people doing that the past week, haha
[06:11] <shadeslayer> ddecator: lol... nope,wont be doing that,just marking them as incomplete or invalid,i leave them if i cant figure something out
[06:11] <shadeslayer> ddecator: and i bet that was due to the developer week we had recently...
[06:11] <kklimonda> ddecator, not sure if it should be added there
[06:11] <ddecator> shadeslayer, as long as you're only marking bugs invalid if you know for sure that they should be
[06:12] <shadeslayer> ddecator: yeah of course...
[06:12] <ddecator> kklimonda, idk either, but i thought i would look to see if it created a "custom" menu or something showing what shortcuts have been set in programs by the user (which would just be too convenient)
[06:12] <ddecator> shadeslayer, sounds good
[06:12] <ddecator> shadeslayer, let us know if you have any questions
[06:13] <ddecator> shadeslayer, i also recommend looking into the mentoring program, even though it will probably take awhile to get assigned one, haha
[06:13] <shadeslayer> ddecator: for eg. there was a bug about flash plugin not installing correctly,had a look at the dpkg log and it said the download timed out... left a comment explaining the problem and marked it as invalid
[06:14] <ddecator> shadeslayer, fair enough
[06:14] <shadeslayer> ddecator: the report also said installing it again worked.... so i dont see any problem
[06:14]  * ddecator has seen a lot of "bugs" caused by the download servers not cooperating
[06:15] <ddecator> shadeslayer, nope, especially if they said they got it to work. i'm just being cautious because of the trouble we've been having, haha
[06:15] <shadeslayer> ddecator: hehe... well ill be sure to confirm anything i cant figure out :)
[06:16] <ddecator> shadeslayer, assuming you can successfully reproduce it on your machine ;)
[06:16] <shadeslayer> ddecator: of course!
[06:18] <ddecator> kklimonda, any ideas leads on possible packages?
[06:19] <ddecator> i can't type...
[06:19] <ddecator> ideas/leads
[06:20] <kklimonda> ddecator, wrt 513691?
[06:20] <ddecator> kklimonda, yes
[06:21] <kklimonda> ddecator, I have no idea. it may be a bug in both totem and gedit
[06:21] <ddecator> kklimonda, well i guess it's just time for me to do some more testing =)
[06:21] <kklimonda> I've tried reproducing it with gnome-terminal and disk usage analizer
[06:22] <kklimonda> but as it doesn't happen with every key combination it's kinda hard to do it
[06:22] <ddecator> try to keep track of what combinations do and don't cause it, we may find a connection
[06:23] <kklimonda> for example Ctrl+L in totem can be rebound just fine
[06:23] <kklimonda> I should probably dig into totem source
[06:23] <ddecator> well, like you said, it may be an issue of using combinations that already have a function
[06:24] <kklimonda> no - Ctrl+L is bound to "Open Location" so that's not it
[06:24] <ddecator> nvm
[06:24] <kklimonda> that's what makes it weird
[06:26] <ddecator> i'm having no problems with terminal
[06:27] <ddecator> you're right though, Ctrl+A won't insert the date with gedit, but Ctrl+T will...
[06:27] <kklimonda> hmm
[06:27] <ddecator> but i used Ctrl+A in terminal with no trouble
[06:27] <kklimonda> Insert date and time is a plugin.. I think
[06:27] <kklimonda> and screenshot in totem is also a plugin
[06:27] <ddecator> but shuffle in totem isn't
[06:28] <kklimonda> no, that's not it
[06:28] <kklimonda> argh
[06:28] <ddecator> it seems like what combinations don't work depends on the program
[06:29] <ddecator> the good news is, i set it so i can use Ctrl+V to paste into terminal finally...
[06:30] <kklimonda> heh
[06:30] <ddecator> but i also can't figure out what separates programs with editable menus and without...for example, i can't edit openoffice, which i wasn't too surprised, but i can't seem to edit calculator either
[06:32] <kklimonda> heh
[06:32]  * ddecator is confused
[06:32] <kklimonda> probably that's why they have hidden it in new GNOME release
[06:35] <kklimonda> I wonder whenever it worked in previous releases
[06:35] <kklimonda> so - anyone with gnome and 8.04? :)
[06:36] <ddecator> i don't like its setup at all
[06:36] <ddecator> it seems like someone could easily set a new shortcut without meaning to
[06:45] <kklimonda> ddecator, so gedit part is reported here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131240
[06:45] <ubot4> Gnome bug 131240 in libbonoboui "Option "desktop/gnome/interface/can_change_accels" ignored by gedit" [Minor,Resolved: wontfix]
[06:45] <kklimonda> but totem doesn't use bonobo
[06:46] <kklimonda> it may use something weird though
[06:46] <ddecator> man the gnome devs love to put "wontfix"...any idea what totem does use?
[06:49] <kklimonda> heh, but gedit doesn
[06:49] <kklimonda> doesn't link to bonobo anymore
[06:49] <ddecator> yah they mentioned it was deprecated
[06:49] <ddecator> no idea what replaced it though...
[06:50] <kklimonda> I should probably ask seb128 about it after the weekend
[06:50] <ddecator> couldn't hurt
[13:43] <mrand> kklimonda: I was actually thinking of installing 8.04 to try some LTS -> LTS upgrade testing.  Not sure when, but maybe sometime this week.  Were you joking, or was there something you'd like me to check out?  If you're wanting it sooner, you could perhaps use a VM, or re-partition your drive and do a real install (and then upgrade that to 10.04, like I plan to).
[13:58] <marcus_> hello :)
[13:59] <marcus_> I was trying to resize an ext4 partition, but I ran into something that looks like a bug in fsck.ext4. But I'm not sure how to find out if it is or not
[14:00] <marcus_> fsck.ext4 gives me this error: "Error determining size of the physical device: File too large"
[14:01] <marcus_> any thoughts on how to proceed?
[15:00] <Guest68989> clients of mythbuntu server time is wrong
[15:00] <Guest68989> so mythtv will not work
[15:00] <MTecknology> marcoba keeps incorrectly assigning questions to packages - anybody up for looking into it? They seem to think the yelp package is for any support request
[15:01] <Guest68989> anyone?
[15:11] <MTecknology> !support
[15:11] <ubot4> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[15:11] <MTecknology> Guest68989: ^
[15:22] <hggdh> MTecknology: I do not have time now, but please send an email to the -control ML
[15:22] <hggdh> this evening, when I get home, I may be able to look at it
[15:32] <MTecknology> hggdh: alrighty - thanks - I'm trying to talk to them directly and expalin things because it seems to be a language barrier. If that doesn't go well I'll fire off to there
[15:35] <mrand> MTecknology: I see what you're talking about.   Perhaps he thinks "yelp in ubuntu" = "help in ubuntu".
[15:39] <MTecknology> mrand: ya - I'll pastebing the email I sent him
[15:39] <MTecknology> mrand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/375551/
[15:42]  * mrand feels sorry for non-native english speakers.  I'd hate to have to learn this language too.
[15:43] <MTecknology> mrand: me is still lerning
[15:43] <MTecknology> mrand: i feel bad too - just makes things hard
[15:45] <hggdh> heh
[15:46] <hggdh> one thing to do is always be courteous. 'please', 'thank you', etc go a long way
[15:48] <MTecknology> hggdh: I'll try to make sure to use them in the future
[15:49] <mrand> hggdh is correct.  the word choices that some non-native speakers choose sometimes end up come across as somewhat rude (unintentionally, of course).  please and thank you help soften those.
[15:49] <hggdh> thank you
[15:49] <hggdh> :-)
[15:50] <mrand> Having said that, even native speakers could stand to use more please and thank you's (in every day life at home, much less online or the Ubuntu community)
[15:51] <hggdh> indeed
[15:52] <MTecknology> I'm generally pretty polite when I'm out and about - I need to work on it though
[15:58] <hggdh> we all, generally, are polite. The potential problems are (non-exaustive): replying on-the-spot to a post/text/comment that made you angry; missing the nice words; using imperative mode
[15:59] <hggdh> and emphasys... you *cannot* do that <- sounds like an order
[16:01] <hggdh> one thing that I do, when a post made me a bit, er, not-so-nice, is to write a response and save it. Then wait at least some hours. Then rewrite it (and get amazed on how rude I was sounding)
[16:02] <mrand> me too, although I'm usually pretty dispassionate.
[16:03]  * hggdh is controlled. Tightly. ;-)
[16:03] <hggdh> time to go. See you all later.
[17:02] <kamalmostafa> I'm looking for someone with an "Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P9500" to try the 10-line program in bug 518314 -- I cannot reproduce the reported problem on a similar Core2 Quad.  (Or a redirect to a more appropriate channel to ask).
[17:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 518314 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "strcmp crashes (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518314
[17:17] <edakiri> Where can I see a list of tags for bugs?
[17:23] <nigelb> vish, around?
[17:23] <vish> nigelb: hey
[17:23] <nigelb> vish, can you take a look at bug 518910?
[17:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 518910 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "intermittent mail notifications. (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518910
[17:23] <nigelb> aren't you on ayatana?  its a notify-osd bug
[17:24]  * vish checks
[17:31] <edakiri> bug 521422 looks like wishlist or brainstorm, but which?
[17:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521422 in kopete (Ubuntu) "kopete doesn't support standard HTML chat logging (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521422
[17:33] <vish> nigelb: it might seem the user is typing the command with the quotes ,  and the bug is probably in evolution-indicator package and not in evo
[17:34] <nigelb> vish, did you see the second log he posted.  The send-text worked then
[17:34] <nigelb> so, he's doing it fine.
[17:34] <vish> ah , right
[17:34] <nigelb> worthy of upstream then, i.e., if its evolution-indicator?
[17:35] <vish> nigelb: its a bug in evolution-indicator and evo-indicator is hosted in lauchpad
[17:35] <vish> just change the notify-osd task to evolution-indicator
[17:35] <nigelb> ah, okay :)
[17:35] <nigelb> thanks
[17:35] <vish> np..
[17:36]  * nigelb is retiring to rhythmbox package from today :)
[17:58] <vish> qense: lmao! where can i login now?  facebook ;p
[17:59] <qense> vish: Yeah, I really should get a Facebook Connector for my blog. ;)
[17:59] <vish> qense: the poor fella must be getting huge mail from those comments..!
[18:00] <qense> it is a professional news blog, so I'm sure he won't be subscribed to it personally
[18:00] <vish> heh , good for him then ;)
[18:16] <vish> *sigh* , someone should really tell om26er about statuses :/     Bug #504966
[18:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 504966 in gwibber (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Facebook account creation dialog is displayed above Facebook authorization window (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504966
[18:17] <qense> vish: yeah
[18:18] <persia> vish: Have we not tried several times?  Like I said before, send email to the ML if you're not happy about someone's access: that's a better forum for the discussion.
[18:20] <vish> persia: i have tried *several* times to tell him personally , emailed him... and it seems like I'm the only one complaining [which makes me feel like a jerk] , we already removed him from papercuters since he didnt understand it well enough :(
[18:22] <persia> vish: Well, I've spent a lot of time denying requests to change importance before he was in bug control, but enough other people thought he did good work, so ...
[18:25] <vish> persia: bcurtiswx also felt he was mixing up on a few empathy bugs.. [he but he approved his bug control membership ;p]
[18:25] <vish> but*
[18:26] <persia> Yeah.  I'm unsure myself, because I'm not feeling that much pain yet (om26er hasn't been fiddling with packages I watch), but we do maybe need to be more careful about making sure people understand when approving them.
[18:27] <nigelb> vish, whats the proper way to handle that bug?
[18:27] <persia> I don't like the idea of writing "you suck" mail to respond to applications any more than anyone else, but I'm a big supporter of "I think you would benefit from a bit more work in these areas: ... before becoming a member" emails.
[18:27] <vish> nigelb: that bug was fixed.. the embedding was the fix
[18:27] <nigelb> fix released then?
[18:27] <vish> yeah
[18:28] <nigelb> (just trying to understand :) )
[18:29] <nigelb> vish, BTW, where in India are you?
[18:30] <vish> nigelb: chennai
[18:30] <nigelb> vish, ah :)
[18:34] <vish> nigelb: hopefully you'll let us have water ;)
[18:34] <nigelb> vish, lol :)
[18:42] <vish> persia: hehe , i knew this Bug #490313 would be duped upstream :D
[18:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490313 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "The status icons are not correct (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490313
[18:43] <persia> searching upstream bugs for dupes is a key skill :/
[18:52] <bcurtiswx> vish: i agree om26er is having trouble with statuses.. hes doing an awesome job understanding where to go.. he just needs a little more guidance
[18:53] <vish> bcurtiswx: yeah , he is enthusiastic , but sometimes he doesnt listen or maybe we are not able to communicate effectively :(
[18:53] <bcurtiswx> vish: agreed
[19:00]  * persia notes that the chance has come :)
[19:09] <mrand> bcurtiswx, vish ^^
[19:10] <bcurtiswx> om26er: read the wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[19:10] <bcurtiswx> you are messing up on a few
[19:11] <om26er> bcurtiswx, this have been before or with recent ones?
[19:12] <vish> om26er:  recent one > Bug #504966
[19:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 504966 in gwibber (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Facebook account creation dialog is displayed above Facebook authorization window (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504966
[19:13] <vish> om26er: while upstream you also need to search if there is already a bug filed upstream
[19:13] <vish> upstreaming*
[19:14] <om26er> vish, I do search for common empathy upstream bugs
[19:14] <vish> otherwise it increases more work for upstream triagers , which many dont like
[19:14] <vish> :)
[19:15] <vish> om26er: ah,  ok.. since the upstream for Bug #490313 already has several dups , i thought you didnt search
[19:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490313 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "The status icons are not correct (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490313
[19:19] <vish> om26er: sending upstream is not easy :) , that ^ bug might not be specific enough, but the main bug already is being discussed regarding better icons... for this one , you could have just commented on the main bug with the lp suggestion...
[19:19] <vish> om26er: btw , there will be a release of gnome-icon-theme soon , so it might be fixed
[19:20] <vish> might be fixed soonish*
[19:23] <vish> om26er: also while you are triaging if you are logged here , it would be easier for us to just mention it here that on the bug report..
[19:23] <vish> *than on the bug report
[19:24] <om26er> vish, ok
[19:25] <om26er> vish, and thanks
[19:25] <vish> om26er: np.. :)
[21:10] <kermiac_> what is the correct (i.e polite) was of asking someone to read the wiki & subscribe to bugs? Note - this guy is not a problem, only a couple of bugs
[21:11] <kermiac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sinani201
[21:20] <persia> kermiac: I'd suggest using "Contact this user" to welcome them to the bugsquad, invite them here, and suggest that some of the links in the /topic may be helpful.
[21:21] <persia> As that user has chosen to join bugsquad, they may just need a little help to get more involved.
[21:22] <malev> I agree with persia
[21:23] <persia> kermiac: Just start with the assumption that it's someone new who needs help, rather than with the idea that it's someone who is making mistakes :)
[21:24] <kermiac> ty persia, yes I totally agree they just need a little guidance
[21:24] <kermiac> that is why I asked for the correct way to go about it as I don't want to come off as being rude
[21:25] <kermiac> I'll send him a note with that advice. Thanks for the help persia :)
[21:26] <persia> Thanks for watching out for the new folk :)  We all needed a bit of help to get started, and by passing it on, end up having more people help share the work.
[21:27] <malev> kermiac, how did you find out that this guy or girl was making mistakes?
[21:28] <kermiac> very true :) I still need a bit of help now & then too, but I remember I was so confused when I first started
[21:29] <kermiac> malev: I just stumbled across him in a couple of bugs & noticed he was confirming them without any comment & not subscribing to the bug report so I thought I'd have a closer look at his/her activity
[21:30] <kermiac> & I don't believe they're making mistakes as such, just need a little guidance
[21:30] <kermiac> nothing they have done has actually been "wrong"
[21:40] <kermiac> !topic
[21:40] <ubot4> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
[21:40] <kermiac> oops
[21:47] <kermiac> !pastebin
[21:47] <ubot4> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[21:48] <kermiac> persia: what do you think of this - http://paste.ubuntu.com/375737/
[21:50] <persia> kermiac: Looks reasonable.  Thanks for offering to mentor this person :)
[21:51] <kermiac> I wouldn't call it "mentoring", I'm simply offering them guidance. I'm after a mentor myself so that I can join bug control ;)
[21:55] <persia> kermiac: "Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further help with bug triaging ..."
[21:56] <persia> kermiac: But what do you need re; bug control?  Inwhat areas do you think you are weak?
[21:57] <kermiac> I don't actually think I have many weak areas TBH, perhaps finding the right package is what I need to work on most
[21:57] <kermiac> for the most part I think I'm doing ok, but that seems to be my most common question
[21:58] <kermiac> although I have found apt-cache policy & apt-cache show as well as google & the "find the right package" wiki are very helpful with this
[21:59] <kermiac> I just though that in order to get into Bug Control you must go through the mentorship program
[22:00] <persia> I can't speak for everyone, but the two things I look for when I review an application are 1) Have I seen this person active in this channel or on the mailing list and being an active part of the team, and 2) Do I think the referenced bugs are well-triaged.
[22:01] <persia> Nah.  You don't need to do it.  Some people work better with mentors, so we have lots of "mentorship" programs.  Some people just dig in and go, and they don't really need a mentor.
[22:01] <kermiac> ok, if I dig around to find a couple of bugs that I have triaged (not just duped, confirmed, etc) could you see if they're ok?
[22:02] <kermiac> also, how many examples would I need? (approximately 5, 10?)
[22:02] <persia> The application process requests that you show your best 5.
[22:03] <kermiac> ok ty persia I don't remember actually reading that :)
[22:03] <persia> I'd recommend ones that were hard, as these tend to be the most convincing examples.  Someone who (correctly) marked 300 bugs duplicate has demonstrated less than someone who has (correctly) moved 3 bugs from some unknown and confusing error into a well described report that the usptream developers are currently fixing.
[22:05] <kamalmostafa> persia: on that note...  Have you any estimate as to the usual waiting period for an application for bugcontrol?   What's the next step for, say, my pending application?  :-)
[22:06] <yofel> kermiac: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl for the general information on how to join BC
[22:06] <yofel> kermiac: it's not that hard ;)
[22:06] <kermiac> so bug 516555 would be a good example?
[22:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 516555 in checkbox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Checkbox (System Testing) bypasses the Audio Tests if you skip back & try restart the tests (affects: 3)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516555
[22:06] <persia> kamalmostafa: It takes all sorts of time spans, depending on several factors.  As I recall, you need to get three positive endorsements without any unaddressed criticism.
[22:07] <kermiac> ty for the encouragement yofel :)
[22:07] <persia> kamalmostafa: My best recommendation is to keep working on triage, and be active in here, and people will likely respond to your application.
[22:07] <kermiac> although that wasn't exactly "hard" it took a while to get to the bottom of the problem :)
[22:08] <kamalmostafa> persia: I actually do have three positive responses, and no unaddressed criticisms...  https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/threads.html#01024
[22:08] <kermiac> & this is one I forwarded upstream (someone already had a patch in the LP bug) bug 511743
[22:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 511743 in ntp (Debian) (and 1 other project) "typo in ntpdate manpage (patch included) (affects: 1)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511743
[22:10] <persia> kermiac: I think that 516555 is good but not excellent.  You definitely did all the right things, but if you have some examples where the description was even more unclear to start, you7d get more credit (the original report wasn't horrid, although not good enough).
[22:10] <kermiac> ok ty persia. I guess I should try to find some more obscure bugs to work on ;)
[22:10] <persia> kamalmostafa: In that case, it's probably just waiting on a bug control admin to have time to process the outstanding requests.  That usually happens within a week or two.
[22:11] <kamalmostafa> persia: very good.  thanks!
[22:12] <persia> kermiac: On 511743, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging might have been nice
[22:16] <kermiac> bookmarked that page, thanks. should I add the tags now?
[22:18] <kermiac> the guy I just sent the message to was here for all of 1.5 mins, lol Sinani201
[22:18] <kermiac> hopefully they'll be back
[22:20] <persia> Might be client trouble if IRC is not normally used.
[22:21] <persia> kermiac: But sure, adding those tags is nice.
[22:21] <malev> hi folks! I have a problem with this bug... I don't have the same hardware to check it and apparently no one has it (in the chat rooms) what can I do to confirm it?
[22:21] <malev> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/496956
[22:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 496956 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "when returning from sleep, nautilus opens removable media (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete]
[22:21] <persia> kermiac: Just be sure to add them using http://www.debian.org/Bugs/server-control so as not to spam the maintainer (unless the maintainer specifically requested to recieve all messages)
[22:23] <kermiac> ok, ty persia. I'm reading through that now :)
[22:23] <persia> malev: That's a hard one.  The laptop testing team used to maintain a list of who had what hardware, but once Ubuntu started to work on >90% of laptops, the LTT seems to have gone quiet.
[22:23] <persia> kermiac: Good luck :)
[22:23] <persia> Sinani201: Welcome !
[22:23] <Sinani201> Hello.
[22:23] <kermiac> hi Sinani201 :)
[22:23] <malev> persia, so... you suggest ... what do you think I should do?
[22:24] <Sinani201> kermiac: Is the welcome email for the bugsquad automated?
[22:25] <persia> malev: I'm not sure.  You could try to see if the LTT is still active anywhere.  You might try mail to ubuntu-users@ asking if anyone has the hardware.  You might try the forums.
[22:25] <malev> persia, OKs! I'm going for it. thanks!!
[22:25] <Sinani201> Malev's bug looks valid...
[22:25] <persia> malev: Good luck.
[22:25] <kermiac> no, I wrote it as I saw that you have started bug triage & thought you may want a little advice/ guidance
[22:26] <malev> Sinani201, I think so, but I can't reproduce it in my laptop, so I better look for somene who has the laptop to check it
[22:26] <persia> Sinani201: The main issue is that we're looking for someone with hardware to try to verify it and get more details.
[22:26] <Sinani201> Oh, I see.
[22:26] <kermiac> Sinani201: it was mostly to ensure that you were aware of the wiki pages & this channel :)
[22:26] <Sinani201> OK.
[22:27] <kermiac> Sinani201: I hope you were not offended in any way, nothing you have done has been wrong :)
[22:28] <Sinani201> Of course not. I could see why you would send that kind of message to a newcomer.
[22:28] <kermiac> Sinani201: I just noticed that you had confirmed a couple of bugs. It is standard practice for the triager to subscribe to any bug report we comment on in order to get updates
[22:28] <kermiac> Sinani201: very good, I'm glad you took that the way it was intended :)
[22:31] <kermiac> Sinani201: please feel free to ask any questions you may have in this channel
[22:31] <Sinani201> I don't think this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/521499 has enough info, but I'm not sure.
[22:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521499 in k3b (Ubuntu) "k3b crashes with Asus K51 AC (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[22:31]  * kermiac looks
[22:31] <Sinani201> That's a pretty cool bot :)
[22:32] <persia> Sinani201: I'm inclined to agree.  For that bug, I'd hope to see a more detailed "steps to reproduce" section in the description, and preferably a stacktrace of the crash.
[22:32] <Sinani201> OK, thanks.
[22:32]  * kermiac agrees with persia
[22:35] <Sinani201> Bye.
[22:36] <kermiac> hey persia, I was reading through the debian server control page & noticed you said to use that so thast I  don't spam the maintainer. What exactly did you mean? It seems to me that adding tags will generate email
[22:36] <persia> Excellent.  Another triager using the resources :)
[22:36] <kermiac> yup. awesome! :)
[22:37] <persia> kermiac: You send email to add tags.  If you do it with the control interface, the maintainer will only get a note if they set their bug subscription that way.  If you try to send a raw email directly to the bug, it ends up being sent to more folk (I think ).
[22:37] <kermiac> ok, that make sense. ty
[22:39] <chrisccoulson> the reporter of bug 521014 isn't very polite
[22:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521014 in ubuntu "trying to backup home folder causes permission error (affects: 1)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521014
[22:40] <kermiac> yes, I think that's one I changed yesterday
[22:41] <kermiac> I thought "error" was more appropriate
[22:42]  * kermiac hasn't finished going through the bugmail yet today
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i had a look at the UF thread he linked too. i assume he is user "qqqq1112" on there, as that user has a similar posting style
[22:42] <persia> chrisccoulson: Not much we can do about that except be extra-polite back and hope they learn from the example :(
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> persia - yeah, i just tend to step back when people are not polite ;)
[22:44] <persia> I think we all do after a bit.  Unfortunately, that means they don't get the support we'd like to give, but I can't blame any of us for not pushing harder on that class of bugs.
[23:02] <bcurtiswx> hey, just testing to see.. am I still here?
[23:03] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, no you're invisible and i don't see any messages from you :P
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> but, yeah - you are still here really ;)
[23:05] <bcurtiswx> chriscoulson: thanks.. i have a LoCo meeting.. nobody showed.. was getting worried it was me :P
[23:05] <bcurtiswx> but its ok that noone showed.. they're all at a free open source conference thingie