[04:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Opinion - tmux is a type of tiling window manager.
[04:33] <arraybolt3> And it's awesome btw.
[04:34] <daftykins> i thought it was a terminal multiplexer
[04:48] <arraybolt3> Same thing, right?
[04:48] <arraybolt3> I mean yeah it's a multiplexer, but all a true tiling window manager is, is a GUI multiplexer.
[04:48] <arraybolt3> 9Really that's all any WM is.
[04:49] <arraybolt3> s/9/(/, s//)/
[04:50] <daftykins> i don't think so
[04:59] <arraybolt3> Well how do you define a terminal multiplexer?
[05:00] <arraybolt3> tmux only supports terminals and text mode apps, but otherwise it's similar to a WM IMO.]
[05:14] <daftykins> eyes officially rolled
[07:22] <lotuspsychje> merry xmas to all ubuntu crew
[09:05] <arraybolt3> Merry Christmas!


[03:47] <smartboyhw> Grrr am I stupid or hasn't the call for Xubuntu 12.04.2 testing went out?
[03:47] <smartboyhw> knome, ^
[04:12] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, ^
[04:21] <pleia2> no, there wasn't a formal call for testing
[04:21] <smartboyhw> pleia2, that's weird
[04:22] <smartboyhw> Normal flavors would have done it by Monday
[04:22] <pleia2> smartboyhw: it's still Monday! :)
[04:22] <pleia2> and "Normal flavors"?
[04:22] <smartboyhw> pleia2, it's Tuesday here already:P
[04:22] <smartboyhw> pleia2, i.e. Kubuntu and Lubuntu:P
[04:22] <pleia2> we lack a testing lead at the moment, so it's been a bit difficult
[04:22] <smartboyhw> pleia2, uh
[04:23] <pleia2> uh?
[04:23] <smartboyhw> Probably bluesabre can be one:P
[04:23] <smartboyhw> He does know a lot of QA
[04:23] <pleia2> I think he's got enough on his plate :)
[04:23] <smartboyhw> pleia2, sorry can't understand the idiom:P
[04:23] <pleia2> we're working to get him to become one of our developers
[04:23] <smartboyhw> pleia2, good job there
[04:23] <pleia2> yeah, he's great
[04:24] <smartboyhw> Sadly elfy quit of being QA Lead this cycle, missed blibering with him on #ubuntuforums
[04:24] <smartboyhw> lol
[04:24] <pleia2> yes, life stuff often gets in the way when this isn't your paid job
[04:26] <smartboyhw> pleia2, :)
[04:28] <smartboyhw> pleia2, the problem is that if you don't really post out an annoucement then you guys might have problems of not enough testers to test images at release day
[04:29] <smartboyhw> Don't worry I will help testing
[04:30] <pleia2> smartboyhw: I know, unfortunately I don't have the time to do it either, would you like to volunteer to help us?
[04:30] <smartboyhw> pleia2, I can:)
[04:31] <pleia2> great, thanks
[04:35] <smartboyhw> pleia2, tell me about the changes in Xubuntu precise since 12.04.1
[04:36] <smartboyhw> Or is it the ones listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu ?
[04:36] <pleia2> smartboyhw: if I had time to round up the changes I could write the announcement ;)
[04:36] <pleia2> I don't know
[04:36] <smartboyhw> pleia2, LOL
[04:36] <smartboyhw> OK
[04:37] <pleia2> most people are sleeping this late, maybe write a mail to the devel list asking what needs to be tested?
[04:37] <smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
[04:38] <smartboyhw> pleia2, you write it since I'm not a Xubuntu member or anything
[04:38] <smartboyhw> :P
[04:38] <pleia2> you should write it, you're the one doing testing (I don't have time this week)
[04:39] <smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
[05:12] <pleia2> smartboyhw: great email, thanks!
[05:14] <smartboyhw> pleia2, :)
[06:55]  * pleia2 yawns and rubs her eyes
[06:55] <smartboyhw> pleia2, er?
[06:55] <pleia2> ok, updated the etherpad
[06:55] <pleia2> I owe the list an email about a marketing/writing thing, but that will have to wait :)
[06:57] <smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
[09:59] <ochosi> sry for missing the meeting
[09:59]  * ochosi starts to read the log
[13:57] <bluesabre> pleia2, what would a qa-lead role include?  I usually have my hands dirty with the things that would need qa as it is :)
[13:58] <ochosi> i think a -dev role would be better for you (just my opinion), because qa doesn't necessarily have to be a person with coding skills and there aren't so many of you as it is...
[13:58]  * ochosi is just thinking out loud
[13:59] <bluesabre> I agree.  I just figure that for any of us that are actively involved in what's changed/changing, its easier to coordinate qa efforts
[14:02] <bluesabre> we could create a xubuntu_qa twitter and tweet things we want looked at :D
[14:05] <ochosi> hehe
[14:05] <ochosi> well i think what we as technical folks could do is keep a list of stuff that should get tested in a central place
[14:06] <ochosi> something that is easily editable and accessible
[14:06] <ochosi> the prospective qa-lead could pick up things from there easily and then coordinate the testing-crowd
[14:06] <ochosi> (at least that's how i'd organize it)
[14:08] <knome> bluesabre, we could simply tweet those to @Xubuntu :P
[14:08] <knome> ochosi, well, we have the ISO tracker
[14:08] <knome> ochosi, and i can get access to anyone who wants to be maintaining the testcases
[14:09] <ochosi> actually the whole twitter idea might not be too bad in the end
[14:09] <ochosi> i mean even on g+ you sometimes get feedback from ppl
[14:09] <knome> feedback is not test results
[14:09] <knome> we need test results to be reported in ISO tracker
[14:09] <ochosi> and it doesn't necessarily have to be very formalized for every test-scenario
[14:09] <ochosi> yeah, well i think we're talking about two different things anyway ;()
[14:09] <ochosi> -(
[14:09] <bluesabre> g+ has become quite handy for getting feedback
[14:10] <knome> no, not necessarily, but in that case, just go ahead and post to G+
[14:10] <bluesabre> especially now with the communities
[14:10] <knome> we can get you access to any accounts you need if you're willing to keep them active
[14:11]  * smartboyhw yawns
[14:11] <ochosi> see, qa-talk is boring
[14:11] <bluesabre> lol
[14:11] <smartboyhw> No I just came back
[14:11] <knome> sure it is
[14:11] <smartboyhw> You guys received my email?
[14:11] <knome> smartboyhw, don't think there's much changed from .1
[14:12] <knome> smartboyhw, mostly stuff that ubuntu has brought in
[14:12] <smartboyhw> knome, OK then. Have you edited the draft for a bit?
[14:12] <knome> nope
[14:12] <smartboyhw> knome, Grrrrrr
[14:14] <bluesabre> mrpouit, updated catfish 0.4.0.x with additional translations, should that be uploaded to the quantal repos?
[14:15] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, you can be a QA Lead (you have the potential as I see)
[14:15] <knome> smartboyhw, please don't push people
[14:15] <bluesabre> lol
[14:15] <smartboyhw> knome, sorrry
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Grrr
[14:16] <knome> as long as people take responsibility, we don't necessarily need a qa lead
[14:16] <ochosi> +1
[14:16] <smartboyhw> +1
[14:16] <bluesabre> +1
[14:16] <ochosi> (but a qa lead definitely helps ;))
[14:16] <bluesabre> and knome makes a good qa lead anyway
[14:16] <knome> ha
[14:16] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, =1
[14:16] <smartboyhw> *+1
[14:16] <knome> bluesabre, not really, i've been slacking with the testcases :P
[14:16] <smartboyhw> Why did I type =1?
[14:17] <bluesabre> knome, you keep telling me to write them
[14:17] <bluesabre> :D
[14:17] <knome> bluesabre, hehe. yeah.
[14:17] <knome> bluesabre, i should look into them today, when wife has gone to work
[14:17] <bluesabre> if you spam me enough, it gets done :D
[14:17] <knome> (around 18UTCish)
[14:18] <smartboyhw> knome, really how about that annoucement?
[14:18] <knome> talk with pleia2
[14:18] <smartboyhw> knome OK. /me waits
[14:57] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, I am working on the translations of Catfish and I don't understand what does versatile mean
[14:57] <smartboyhw> The Google Translations doesn't make any sense:P
[14:58] <ochosi> versatile==it has many "sides" as in: it can fullfil your search-needs in many ways
[15:00] <bluesabre> what ochosi said
[15:00] <bluesabre> :D
[15:00] <ochosi> :}
[15:00] <GridCube> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile#Etymology
[15:00] <GridCube> P:
[15:01] <GridCube> i couldn't figure how to use catfish though
[15:01] <pjotr> Hello, I just read the logs of yesterday's meeting. At the end, some talk was about adding wallpapers.
[15:02] <pjotr> There's a nice wallpaper collection named xfce4-artwork in the repo's. Contains only wallpapers, and very nice ones as well. Maybe an idea for adding it to the iso?
[15:02] <GridCube> :D
[15:02] <GridCube> i support that idea
[15:02] <ochosi> pjotr: iirc the ones in xfce4-artwork are really really old and the resolutions don't really match today's needs
[15:02] <ochosi> i worked with sarts on an updated version of those wallpapers
[15:02] <ochosi> but i think he never pushed them
[15:02]  * ochosi goes to check
[15:03] <pjotr> I have a 1920 x 1080 display, and they are fine for that....
[15:04] <ochosi> right, it was updated it seems
[15:04] <GridCube> :( i dont understand how catfish is supposed to work
[15:04] <bluesabre> :(
[15:04] <GridCube> everything i type goes to a search and stays there for ever doing nothing
[15:04] <ochosi> pjotr: or actually i think i mixed up xfce4-artwork with the backdrops that used to come with xfdesktop
[15:05] <bluesabre> GridCube, are you running precise?
[15:05] <GridCube> im on presice with xfce4.10
[15:05] <GridCube> maybe that is it
[15:06] <bluesabre> the experimental/ppa version is broken in precise
[15:06] <pjotr> ochosi: OK.... :-)  What's your opinion on adding it to the iso?
[15:06] <GridCube> oh
[15:06] <GridCube> well
[15:06] <bluesabre> ochosi: 6px does help nicely
[15:06] <bluesabre> sorry, its a python-bug
[15:06] <ochosi> pjotr: it's possible, but as artwork-lead i'd rather compile wallpapers myself ;)
[15:06] <bluesabre> I've reported it, but it will probably never be fixed
[15:06] <GridCube> no problem i should update
[15:07] <GridCube> no problem then
[15:07] <ochosi> pjotr: e.g. mgla-wiosenna really has a too small resolution
[15:08] <ochosi> same with ohio-sky
[15:08] <ochosi> or park
[15:08] <ochosi> i mean most smartphones have a higher resolution 1024x768 nowadays...
[15:19] <pjotr> ochosi: can I help you by giving you some high resolution pictures that I took of nature (woods, fields, lakes)?
[15:20] <ochosi> pjotr: sure, but for now i can't guarantee anything, i mean adding wallpapers would have to be discussed and decided at a meeting i guess
[15:20] <ochosi> as those take a few mb easily, it affects more ppl and i can't decide on my own
[15:21] <ochosi> but if you want you can start a collection on flickr or something like that
[15:21] <bluesabre> we should have a wallpaper contest :D
[15:21] <ochosi> yeah, although having seen how that went for lubuntu i'm inclined to say "no thanks" to that
[15:21] <bluesabre> lol
[15:21] <bluesabre> or use the xubuntu deviantart page
[15:21] <knome> bluesabre, i don't want to have contests because that'll lead people to think we've promised something
[15:21] <ochosi> yeah, why not
[15:21] <ochosi> whatever platform works
[15:21] <knome> i'd rather just contact people if something good comes up
[15:22] <ochosi> +1
[15:22] <ochosi> knome: thoughts on adding a few wps by default?
[15:22] <knome> ochosi, generally about wallpapers: i think it's fine to have some now that we have space, but let's see where we are after micahg and mrpouit have done their magic first
[15:22] <bluesabre> alrighty, that also comes down to a sense of taste too.  (and the ubuntu wallpaper choosers don't always seem to have the best taste)
[15:22] <knome> hehe
[15:23] <Unit193> And again, how many people no matter what's there, choose something they have already?
[15:23] <ochosi> sure
[15:23] <bluesabre> I actually quite like the latest xubuntu wallpaper
[15:24] <bluesabre> and have it default on all my machines
[15:24] <ochosi> tbh i'd prefer something like a plugin for xfdesktop to pull previews of wallpapers online
[15:24] <ochosi> from some services
[15:24] <ochosi> one that'd download selected items automatically to ~/.wallpapers and set them or something
[15:24] <bluesabre> that would be cool
[15:25] <bluesabre> that's a nifty feature that kde has had for ages
[15:25] <ochosi> what services/websites are they using?
[15:25] <bluesabre> dunno
[15:26] <bluesabre> but when I was younger, I got some of my best wps from there
[15:26] <Unit193> http://unit193.ninth.su/dump/Bio_Hazard_blue.jpg is one of mine and http://unit193.ninth.su/dump/bio_hazard.jpg is the other.  Nothing like that'd be in stock. :P  (Note, my screen res is a little higher)
[15:27] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, both are a bit too disturbing for my eyes ;)
[15:27]  * ochosi likes interfacelift
[15:29] <ochosi> first thing that would be needed anyway is a patch for xfdesktop to load user-selected directories instead of a static list based on what's in /usr/share/wallpapers
[15:29] <ochosi> (imo that's more important than shipping more wallpapers by default, cause it's simply annoying...)
[15:29] <knome> YES.
[15:30] <knome> bluesabre, can you please create a patch for that?
[15:30] <ochosi> the revamped xfdesktop has that already
[15:30] <ochosi> but it won't be a part of xfce4.12
[15:30] <knome> aha
[15:30] <bluesabre> I'll look into it
[15:30] <ochosi> it'll probably be released after the switch to gtk3
[15:30] <knome> could we cherry-pick it
[15:30] <ochosi> but you can build it from git
[15:30] <ochosi> problem is it only does wallpapers right now
[15:30] <ochosi> no app-menu yet
[15:30] <ochosi> and no icons on the desktop
[15:31] <ochosi> but there's an awesome transition-effect when switching wallpapers :)
[15:31] <knome> i'm pointing to the user-dirs feature
[15:31] <ochosi> it's a rewrite from scratch
[15:31] <ochosi> so cherry-picking isn't possible in this sense
[15:31] <bluesabre> should be a simple patch
[15:31] <ochosi> but yeah, you can probably get an idea of how it should be done from there
[15:32] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you touch xfdesktop, we should do it upstream imo
[15:32] <bluesabre> if we just want it to look inside of ~/Pictures as well
[15:32] <knome> bluesabre, no!
[15:32] <knome> :P
[15:32] <bluesabre> lol
[15:32] <knome> the path should be configurable
[15:32] <ochosi> i'd say it should have a simple folder-selector like catfish
[15:32] <ochosi> and always display what's inside that dir
[15:32] <knome> hmm
[15:32] <ochosi> plus maybe the ones that got shipped by default
[15:32] <bluesabre> that makes sense
[15:32] <knome> is there XDG_PICTURES_DIR or sth
[15:33] <knome> i mean, the way ~/Pictures is linked
[15:33] <ochosi> knome: there is, but just keeping that means users have to find that out
[15:33] <knome> we could tell them about it
[15:33] <ochosi> easiest way to tell them is with a combobox ;)
[15:33] <knome> :P
[15:33] <bluesabre> just have the default list as a combobox entry
[15:33] <ochosi> this is approx how it should look imo: http://wiki.xfce.org/_media/design/xfdesktop/desktop-prefs.png
[15:33] <knome> as long as you can set a custom location
[15:34] <ochosi> bluesabre: maybe also change the listview for an iconview without descriptions (who cares about the name of a wallpaper anyway?)
[15:34] <Unit193> ochosi: ...You know what that looks like, right?  (Not that it's a bad idea, I rather agree. :P )
[15:34] <ochosi> Unit193: tell me
[15:34] <bluesabre> ok, remind me this weekend if I don't mention it again before then
[15:35] <bluesabre> :D
[15:35] <ochosi> sure
[15:35] <Unit193> A la Windows vista+.
[15:35] <bluesabre> we stole the minimal display dialog from windows 7
[15:35] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, news: All the Chinese (Traditional) translations has been completed:)
[15:35] <bluesabre> sweet
[15:35] <bluesabre> thanks smartboyhw!
[15:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: not entirely ;)
[15:36] <bluesabre> true
[15:36] <bluesabre> :)
[15:36] <bluesabre> we were
[15:36] <bluesabre> inspired
[15:37] <ochosi> Unit193: not sure that this is really the same thing: http://www.jegsworks.com/Lessons/win/basics/dialog-personalization-background-wallpaper-vista.gif
[15:37] <ochosi> i mean yeah, it also uses an iconview without filenames...
[15:37] <ochosi> but which wallpaper-dialog doesn't
[15:37] <knome> our
[15:37] <knome> :P
[15:37] <ochosi> yeah, true unfortunately
[15:38] <ochosi> anyway, i think a patch for xfdesktop would be accepted upstream
[15:38] <ochosi> or at least it has good chances?
[15:38] <ochosi> -?
[15:39] <bluesabre> maybe
[15:40] <ochosi> well as it doesn't have a maintainer and i know that nick doesn
[15:40] <GridCube> i use other wallpaper solutions anyway
[15:40] <ochosi> t care about the current thingy too much...
[15:40] <GridCube> variety its pretty much perfect
[15:40] <GridCube> !info variety
[15:40] <GridCube> whaaat
[15:41] <ochosi> not that perfect then i guess ;)
[15:41] <GridCube> https://launchpad.net/variety
[15:41] <GridCube> i... dont remember ppaing it
[15:42] <GridCube> but oh well, i might have
[15:44] <GridCube> even more, variety has a clock included on the desktop that you can customize, it looks pretty, but in my case enabling it stopped the wallpaper rotations
[15:46] <knome> read: it's buggy
[15:46] <GridCube> yes, well
[15:46] <GridCube> but its an example, of things that can be worked upon
[15:47] <GridCube> you don't need to reinvent the wheel everytime
[15:47] <ochosi> the point of rewriting xfdesktop was to drop code-duplication between the desktop and the file-manager
[15:48] <ochosi> that means better maintainability and less bugs
[15:48] <Unit193> !info variety extras
[15:48] <Unit193> Or you could just use wally. :P
[15:49] <GridCube> o: i knew i didnt ppaed it
[15:49] <Unit193> Get it from a PPA.
[15:49] <Unit193> Doesn't mean it isn't buggy. ;)
[15:51] <GridCube> yeah, wasnt saying that, it is buggy, even the linux kernel is buggy sometimes, you just cant avoid that, but then again it doesnt mean its bad, it just need more work