[01:11] <Kurlon> Any chance I could boot an ubuntu arm userland with an Android kernel?
[01:11] <Kurlon> Or are they too butchered?
[02:47] <rsalveti> Kurlon: you can, not that will work 100% fine, but most of the times you can enable later what's missing
[02:47] <rsalveti> I think the ac100 kernel is still the android one
[02:47] <rsalveti> and people are using it mostly with ubuntu
[04:40] <lilstevie> the one I use with the tab is still an android butchered kern
[04:40] <lilstevie> but too much is broke
[04:40] <lilstevie> and I have to start rolling back some of the android patches
[04:41] <lilstevie> which is proving rather troublesome
[04:50] <rsalveti> it all depends on the quality of the changes
[04:51] <rsalveti> if it's not breaking stuff at least, you can still use a config compatible with ubuntu
[04:51] <rsalveti> with the needed modules and stuff
[09:49] <ogra> hrm
[09:50] <ogra> no images :(
[09:50] <ogra> bug 721118
[09:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 721118 in unity "Unity FTBFS on armel due to Nux" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721118
[10:04] <XorA_> morning
[10:46] <ericb2> hello
[10:46] <ericb2> I'm using the natty version on BeagleBoard xM and it's slow
[10:46] <ericb2> is the proc frequency 600 MHz only ?
[10:47] <ericb2> second, looks like there is no 3D acceleration. Is there something possible, or ..
[10:47] <ericb2> thanks in advance :)
[10:52] <ogra> i think there is some cmdline option you can set to make it operate on full speed
[10:53] <ericb2> ogra: I believed cpufreq-selector could help, but the frequency management is not handled (if I searched correctly)
[10:53] <ogra> and the sgx drivers should be in multiverse somewhere
[10:54] <ericb2> ogra: ah, thanks. was the name missing me
[10:54] <ericb2> sgx
[11:03] <XorA_> I think you do mpurate=<number> to get itr faster
[11:03] <ericb2> XorA_: at boot time ?
[11:03] <XorA_> ericb2: yes
[11:03] <ericb2> XorA_: ok. and what number are possibles ?
[11:04] <ericb2> numbers
[11:04] <ogra> i think it takes MHz values
[11:04] <ogra> so 1000 should get you a GHz
[11:04] <ericb2> ok, I'll try 800 then
[11:04] <XorA_> 800 certainly safe if thats the right arg, Im working from memory
[11:04]  * XorA_ only got an XM yesterday
[11:05]  * ogra imagines 1000 should work too, buut 800 is surely safer
[11:05] <ericb2> ok. anyway, we'll see
[11:05] <ericb2> is there a key to hit at boot ?
[11:06] <XorA_> I think koen was running XM happilly at 1.2Ghz
[11:06] <ogra> no, you edit /boot/boot.script and run sudo flash-kernel
[11:06] <ogra> on the running system
[11:06] <ogra> that will change your boot args
[11:07] <ericb2> ogra: thanks
[11:08]  * XorA_ shall Natty his XM tonight
[11:08] <ogra> heh
[11:09] <ogra> i think we shopuld probably set mpurate at image buildtime
[11:09] <janimo> ogra, ping
[11:09] <ogra> the prob is that these images also run on B and C series beagles and we cant really determine if we are on a XM
[11:10] <ogra> janimo, yo
[11:10] <XorA_> the cpufreq patches should be mainstream now, and they know what type of omap you have
[11:10] <ogra> janimo, in bug 724615 there is a "fix committed" set, could you please link the branch in the future ? (desktop team asked)
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 724615 in unity "unity FTBFS on armel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724615
[11:11] <XorA_> but last I saw there were some bugs in cpufreq framework preventing going to full speed as it assume unique voltages for each frequency
[11:11] <ogra> that way its easier to find what the patch was :)
[11:11] <ericb2> XorA_ I got an xM rev 1 if I'm not wrong
[11:12] <XorA_> dont know which rev I got
[11:12] <ogra> no sticker ?
[11:13] <XorA_> ogra: its at home, my eyesight not that good
[11:13] <ogra> train it !
[11:13] <XorA_> someone sold it to me cheap over the weekend
[11:13]  * XorA_ never persuaded TI to part with any :-D
[11:15] <ericb2> shit I tried to install libgl1-sgx-omap3 libgles2-sgx-omap3 and  it fails.
[11:15] <ericb2> the reason is  : FATAL:  module omaplfb not found
[11:16] <ogra> you need the powervr package first i think
[11:16] <ogra> powervr-omap3-dkms
[11:16]  * ericb2 tries
[11:17] <ericb2> it is already installed
[11:18] <ericb2> Building ...
[11:18] <ogra> is it done compiling already ?
[11:18] <ogra> aha
[11:18] <ericb2> Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 2.6.38-1-omap (armel)
[11:18] <ericb2> I'll consult the make.log
[11:19] <ogra> is that your own kernel ?
[11:19] <ericb2> ogra: no it isn't
[11:19] <ericb2> error : unknown fiels 'ioctl' specified in initializer
[11:19] <ogra> hmm, strange
[11:19] <ericb2> s/fiels/field/
[11:20] <ogra> there might be a ppa where rsalveti provides an update package, wait until he is around
[11:20] <ericb2> in build/services4/3rdparty/bufferclass_ti/bc_cat.c
[11:20] <ogra> though i'm not sure he rolled a new one for omap3 ... i know there is one for omap4 somewhere
[11:21] <janimo> ogra, there was no branch I committed to trunk
[11:21] <janimo> there's a ton of ubnity email since I am on the team, so I would not be surprised commit messages to be overlooked
[11:21] <ogra> janimo, then make a branch first and link it or attach a patch or some such
[11:22] <ogra> its just very hard to find out about the fix if nothing is linked
[11:22] <ogra> you can even just copy the link to the revision into a comment
[11:23] <janimo> ok, I was hoping that bzr commit would do something as I inlucde dLP :#XXX in the commit msg
[11:23] <ogra> hmm
[11:23] <janimo> is this on ayatana or u-desktop?
[11:23] <ogra> i think it should ... i rarely cimmit to upstream branches directly though, i usually link merge branches
[11:24] <ogra> the discussion was on u-desktop
[12:24] <ericb2> ogra: is it possible to compile by hand ?
[12:24] <ogra> look up the dkms docs, i think you can trigger it by hand
[12:25] <ericb2> ogra: I'm currently in /var/lib/dkms/pwervr-omap3/<IP_ADDRESS>/build/services4/3rdparty/bufferclass_ti, but make leads me to undefined $KERNEL_DIR
[12:25]  * ericb2 looks
[12:26] <ogra> hmm, really looks like you dont use the official kernel
[12:26] <ericb2> ogra: no idea : Im running the Ubuntu image I found the link on the Ubuntu wiki
[12:26] <ericb2> ogra: this is natty, could be related ?
[12:27] <ogra> linux-image-2.6.38-5-omap
[12:27] <ogra> thats the version you should have installed
[12:27] <ericb2> ogra:  uname  -a tells : Linux beagle 2.6.38-1-omap
[12:28] <ericb2> ogra:  uname  -a tells : Linux beagle 2.6.38-1-omap #28-Ubuntu
[12:28] <ogra> that sounds outdated
[12:29] <ericb2> indeed, apt-cache tells me about 2.6.38-5
[12:31] <ericb2> shit .. no network
[12:32] <ericb2> is /etc/init.d/networking restart wrong  ?
[12:32] <ogra> that only restarts low-level bits iirc
[12:32] <ogra> network manager cares for the higher level bits
[12:33] <ericb2> ogra: and I need to got X.org running for that ?
[12:33] <ogra> you can also set it up in /etc/network/interfaces instead
[12:34] <ogra> then NM will use the config from there without X
[12:41] <ericb2> I added two lines in /etc/network interfaces :   allow-hotplug usb0  and   iface usb0  inet dhcp
[12:41] <ericb2> and ifup usb0 fails
[12:41] <ogra> and auto usb0 ?
[12:41] <ogra> you shouldnt need allow-hotplug
[12:41] <ogra> cat /proc/net/dev|grep usb ?
[12:43]  * ericb2 removed allow-hotplug an retries ...
[12:45] <ericb2> ogra: got :  usb0: 64009 677 .... and so on
[12:45] <ogra> looks fine
[12:45] <ericb2> ok, works now. Suddenly ...
[12:46] <ogra> its magic :)
[12:47] <ericb2> ogra: ufff ... loosk like I'm in debug mode ... got  zillions of [ xxxx.xxxxxx]  smsc95xx 1-2.1:1.0: usb0: kevent 2 may have been dropped
[12:48]  * ericb2 installing kernel 2.6.38-5
[12:49] <ericb2> (omap version)
[12:53]  * ericb2 hopes to be able to work a bit today
[13:03] <rsalveti> morning
[13:05] <ericb2> rsalveti: hi
[13:05] <ericb2> rsalveti: got a problem installing powervr on omap3
[13:05] <ericb2> rsalveti: X.org is gone ...
[13:06] <ericb2> rsalveti: + the build fails
[13:06] <rsalveti> ericb2: could be that sgx is broken with latest updates
[13:06] <rsalveti> ericb2: can you open a bug against it?
[13:06] <rsalveti> will take a look then
[13:06] <ericb2> rsalveti: where ?
[13:06] <ericb2> rsalveti: do you have a link I meant
[13:06] <rsalveti> maybe by updating the package or by fixing the current code
[13:07] <rsalveti> ericb2: just open a bug agains the sgx package for omap3
[13:07] <rsalveti> putting your dkms logs
[13:07] <rsalveti> ericb2: there's a workaround to avoid the smsc95xx messages
[13:07] <rsalveti> let me get the link
[13:08] <rsalveti> XorA: ogra: and for omap I'd like to merge the patch that sets the mhz higher for most beagle boards
[13:09] <rsalveti> also on my todo, was waiting more discussion and see if it'd go for 39
[13:09] <rsalveti> than I can easily backport for our current 38
[13:10] <gholl> does anyone know how long i can expect to wait for the image writing to complete? I'm following instructions here for a beagle board install, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
[13:11] <rsalveti> ericb2: for smsc messages: Add to /etc/sysctl.conf: vm.min_free_kbytes = 8192
[13:12] <ericb2> rsalveti: ok, I'll do once I'll have installed kernel-sources for 2.6.38-5
[13:12] <rsalveti> ericb2: thanks
[13:14] <ericb2> btw, mpurate=800 seems to work well. mpurate=1000 does nothing, and looks like 600 MHz is the fallback
[13:15]  * ericb2 doing everything on a simple 16GB micro SD card
[13:15] <ogra> k
[13:16] <ericb2> would be fantastic to find 32 or even 64GB a day, using such "size"  :)
[13:16] <ericb2> 1cm square hard disk is a bit of fun
[13:16] <XorA_> crap just reminded me I dont have any high speed microSDs
[13:34] <ericb2> rsalveti: done. ( /etc/sysctl.conf ..etc)
[13:46] <ericb2> rsalveti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/powervr-omap3/+bug/726541
[13:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 726541 in powervr-omap3 "powervp installation broken on aremel (kernel 2.6.38-5)" [Undecided,New]
[13:48] <rsalveti> ericb2: cool, thanks
[13:49] <ericb2> rsalveti: I added one comment
[13:50] <ericb2> rsalveti: wiating, what can I do to repair my X.org (currently broken)
[13:50] <ericb2> ?
[13:50] <ericb2> s/wiating/waiting/
[13:50] <rsalveti> ericb2: what happened to your x.org?
[13:51] <ericb2> something like "module omaplfb not found" or something close
[13:51] <ericb2> rsalveti: happened when I tried to install powervr
[13:52] <ericb2> and apt-cache search omaplfb    ... is empty :/
[13:52] <rsalveti> that's because this module is loaded during the sgx initscript
[13:53] <rsalveti> but it shouldn't affect your xorg
[13:53] <rsalveti> as the omap 3 driver doesn't properly support the xorg
[13:53] <ericb2> rsalveti: where is the config file located ? Maybe I can reconfigure X.org ?
[13:55] <rsalveti> ericb2: there's no xorg conf by default
[13:55] <ericb2> rsalveti: sorry, how does it work then ?
[13:55] <rsalveti> ericb2: at /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d are the basic confs, but not something that sets your video driver
[13:56] <rsalveti> you can still create your own config, but not needed
[13:56] <rsalveti> as you're basically using xorg with framebuffer
[13:57] <ericb2> rsalveti: ok, and how can I figure out what happens ? The only info I got is  :  ddxSigGiveUp : Closing log
[13:57] <ericb2> in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[13:57] <rsalveti> ericb2: can you post your x.org log for me?
[13:59] <ericb2> rsalveti: yes, sure. Let me try to launch it manually
[14:00] <ericb2> (EE} HID 04f3:013: failed to initialize for relative axes.
[14:01] <ericb2> could the mpurate=800 be the reason ?
[14:06] <ericb2> and servce gdm restart does notthing ... tested on CTRL + ALT + F6 -> F10
[14:08] <rsalveti> if xorg is failing, then gdm restart will not work
[14:08] <ericb2> rsalveti: I know. Was to obtain a track, somewhere to search
[14:18] <ericb2> rsalveti: the only track I got, is when I installed the libegl1-sgx-omap3 lib, a lot of libs have been uninstalled
[14:19] <ericb2> rsalveti: bingo
[14:19] <ericb2> rsalveti: broken dependencies
[14:20] <rsalveti> it's normal to remove some mesa libraries and dependencies, as the sgx one will replace them
[14:20] <rsalveti> but it could be that something was remove accidentally
[14:20] <rsalveti> *removed
[14:21] <rsalveti> I'm setting up my beagleboard to test the package again
[14:21] <rsalveti> and try to fix it
[14:21] <ericb2> rsalveti: you mean everyting removed +  omaplfb module should replace everything ?
[14:21]  * ericb2 will redo .. not clear
[14:21] <rsalveti> no, the sgx packages should replace the libegl/libgles from mesa
[14:21] <rsalveti> and when the mesa packages are removed, some others are also removed, as not used anymore
[14:22] <ericb2> rsalveti: ok, but sgx package won't work without the module ?
[14:22] <rsalveti> ericb2: nops
[14:22] <ericb2> rsalveti: ah .. sorry looks I'm plain wrong
[14:22] <rsalveti> but your xorg should still work
[14:23] <ericb2> rsalveti: it's not the case
[14:30] <lag> rsalveti: Did you manage to give that rootfs a stab?
[14:31] <rsalveti> lag: argh, sorry, it took so long to download that I completely forgot
[14:31] <rsalveti> let me dig it here
[14:32] <lag> :)
[14:32] <lag> np
[15:18] <rsalveti> lag: did you try this rootfs with kernel upstream?
[15:18] <rsalveti> or how are you planning to use it?
[15:19] <lag> rsalveti: I have various kernels I can try to use it with
[15:19] <lag> rsalveti: The main one is on git.linaro.org
[15:19] <rsalveti> lag: so what exactly you want me to test with it?
[15:19] <lag> rsalveti: I'm guessing you don't have HW though
[15:19] <lag> Anything?
[15:19] <rsalveti> just to try it with beagle?
[15:19] <rsalveti> ok
[15:20] <lag> rsalveti: I think it's just a generic kernel
[15:20] <lag> Sure
[15:39] <XorA_> hey prpplague
[15:39] <prpplague> XorA_: hey bud
[15:40] <XorA_> prpplague: what happens if I plug a zippy into beagle XM?
[15:41] <prpplague> XorA: it goes *poof*
[15:41]  * prpplague jokes with XorA
[15:41] <XorA_> :-(
[15:41] <prpplague> XorA: zippy and zippy2 have been tested with xm with no issues
[15:42] <XorA_> prpplague: sweet, even bigger rootfs with LVM then :-D
[17:54] <rsalveti> lag: image is working fine
[17:54] <rsalveti> lag: with our 38 for omap
[17:54] <rsalveti> linaro image but still "Welcome to Ubuntu Natty" :-)
[18:17] <lag> rsalveti: It's the Linaro image of Ubuntu
[18:17] <ogra> heh
[18:18] <ogra> "the linaro image of ubuntu"
[18:18] <ogra> sounds like "the duke of earl"
[18:21] <janimo> rsalveti, do TI plan a .38 upload now that it seems to be close to good enough?
[18:22] <ogra> TI ... upload ... ?
[18:23] <ogra> janimo, cooloney does our kernel, whenever he is ready we should get a package
[18:23] <ogra> given that there are only a few hours until freeze i wouldnt expect it before alpha3 though
[18:23] <janimo> ogra, ah great. Well, green light for upload, pull request whatever :)
[18:24] <janimo> it's a soft freeze :)
[18:24] <armin76> ogra talking bad about TI *g*
[18:24] <ogra> k, i'll try to ping him tomorrow morning
[18:24] <janimo> and it does not go into images so should not destabilize A3
[18:24] <ogra> we wont have parallel kernel packages for omap4
[18:25] <janimo> ah, so it's a straigh update
[18:25] <ogra> so it has to be good enough to replace the existing one
[18:25] <janimo> ok, then
[18:25] <ogra> right
[18:25] <ogra> kernel team refused to maintain two packages
[18:25] <janimo> makes perfect sense
[18:25] <ogra> specially since we would get naming probs
[18:25] <ogra> and cross-grading would become a pain
[18:26] <janimo> ogra, what were the takeaways from the emdebian meeting?
[18:26] <janimo> anything new to us?
[18:26] <rsalveti> janimo: ogra: new .38 upload should be done when cooloney work on it
[18:26] <rsalveti> but, still not tested
[18:26] <ogra> rsalveti, right
[18:26] <rsalveti> the pull request is done from TI side already
[18:27] <ogra> i think janimo just said it was good for him above
[18:27] <janimo> ok
[18:27] <ogra> yup, i saw the mail
[18:27] <ogra> the sound stuff doesnt look convincing though
[18:27] <ogra> but we have time to fix that this time (i hope)
[18:27] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:27] <rsalveti> I believe we'll go a3 with the kernel we have in hands
[18:28] <rsalveti> this new on a ppa and after a3 we can do the switch
[18:28] <ogra> yeah
[18:28] <rsalveti> as the soft freeze for a3 is today
[18:28] <rsalveti> wasn't expecting that
[18:28] <ogra> freeze is at 23:00 UTC
[18:28] <armin76> where is that .38 kernel coming from?
[18:28] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:28] <rsalveti> armin76: from TI
[18:28] <ogra> its always on mondy evening/tuesday morning
[18:28] <rsalveti> armin76: but basically the same one linaro currently delivers
[18:28] <rsalveti> ogra: yeah, was expecting it to be tomorrow, but fine :-)
[18:29] <rsalveti> nothing urgent
[18:29] <ogra> well, looks like unity didnt make it yet
[18:29] <armin76> rsalveti: link for it?
[18:29] <rsalveti> armin76: getting for you
[18:29] <ogra> so that looks like a delay
[18:29] <armin76> thanks
[18:29] <ogra> (for the freeze)
[18:29] <rsalveti> ogra: what you mean? we may need some bugfixing
[18:29] <rsalveti> but that's fine if we can do that tomorrow
[18:29] <ogra> rsalveti, i know ...
[18:29] <rsalveti> I believe
[18:29] <ogra> we wont have images tomorrow
[18:30] <rsalveti> ogra: didn't you say you fixed it?
[18:30] <ogra> unity will be uploaded tomorrow morning only
[18:30] <rsalveti> :-)
[18:30] <janimo> finally KDE packages are out of the FTBFS queue, now the chart looks familiar again
[18:30] <ogra> no,. janimo fixed it
[18:30] <janimo> although I wish Libo built on arm for a change
[18:30] <ogra> but the fix was sitting idle in upstreams bzr for three days
[18:30] <rsalveti> oh, will still be pushed...
[18:30] <ogra> it will be pushed
[18:30] <rsalveti> argh
[18:30] <ogra> but the desktop team just announced they wont make it before tomorrow morning
[18:31] <ogra> which means we will have no images tomorrow morning
[18:31] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:31] <ogra> with luck we'll have them in the evening
[18:31] <janimo> maybe I should have made a package upload as well. Dunno, I was trying not to mess with too many bzr branches at once
[18:31] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:31] <rsalveti> I thought you also did a package upload
[18:31] <janimo> no
[18:31] <ogra> janimo, given treh experience we now have with nux and unity slowness, i would actually recommed package fixes in the future
[18:31] <janimo> I saw they upload quite frequently
[18:32] <janimo> so I leave it to them
[18:32] <rsalveti> it's taking too much time for the fixes to be in the archive
[18:32] <ogra> nux took ages
[18:32] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:32] <ogra> because they kept back a new upstream relese until FF
[18:32] <janimo> true, but I did not know how long it takes them. I will consider package uploads from now on though
[18:32] <rsalveti> seems they don't care much about arm
[18:33] <ogra> given the silly casting errors that cause our build failures i would agree with that :)
[18:33] <rsalveti> if it's breaking our images, then a package upload would be better I guess
[18:33] <janimo> rsalveti, I can't blame them. The flood of bugmails I am getting since on the unity team has * a lot* of crash reports
[18:33] <janimo> they ned to make that stabl eon x86 before caring for arm
[18:33] <rsalveti> crash or ftbfs?
[18:33] <janimo> crashes
[18:33] <rsalveti> crash is fine :P
[18:33] <ogra> yeah
[18:33] <janimo> I still canoot run unity on my two x86 laptops I test on
[18:33] <rsalveti> ftbfs blocks images
[18:33] <janimo> just goes away
[18:33] <ogra> ftbfs is blocking
[18:34] <janimo> ogra, rsalveti I know, what I am saying they are swamped by bugfix work so probably let us handle arm and only do it when explicitly pinged
[18:34] <ogra> i'm really curious if unity-2d will run at all
[18:34] <ogra> janimo, right, do package fixes and additionally dup a merge request in place for next upstream
[18:35] <rsalveti> armin76: https://github.com/sebjan/linux-2.6/tree/int-2.6.38-rc6-iv3
[18:35] <ogra> *dump
[18:35] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:35] <rsalveti> otherwise we're not making a3
[18:40]  * armin76 wonders why is it hidden
[18:40] <armin76> rsalveti: thanks
[18:41] <rsalveti> armin76: it's not hidden, heavy dev
[18:41] <rsalveti> armin76: if you follow linaro tree you'll probably get the same patch set
[18:41] <Neko> arm guys!
[18:41] <Neko> I have a quandry
[18:41] <Neko> I want to install from ubuntu-standard a full gnome desktop
[18:42] <Neko> but ubuntu-desktop requires unity
[18:42] <Neko> and jockey-gtk
[18:42] <sebjan> rsalveti: actually, if you talk about my tag, it does not contain the Linaro patches, only TI ones on top of mainline kernel
[18:42] <Neko> but unity depends on compiz
[18:42] <Neko> and jockey-gtk depends on nvidia-common
[18:42] <Neko> *what* is going on?
[18:42] <Neko> (btw unity-2d doesn't provides: unity either)
[18:42] <rsalveti> sebjan: true, I mean, if he gets the andy linaro tree he'll get everything
[18:43] <sebjan> rsalveti: correct
[18:43] <rsalveti> as he's also merging your tree
[18:43] <ogra>  Neko unity is the default ubuntu-desktop in natty
[18:43] <rsalveti> Neko: we're fixing this
[18:43] <ogra> Neko, and unity-2d doesnt provide unity since it uses bits and pieces of unity
[18:44] <ogra> -2d needs unity installed
[18:44] <GrueMaster> Neko.  Packages are being rebuilt frm massive uploads last week.  Expect a little turbulence in the pool, it should settle by the end of the week.
[18:44] <Neko> right and I tried that but unity depends on compiz-abisomething
[18:44] <ogra> jockey is fixed since half a day
[18:44] <Neko> ah okay so I am just in the middle of an update?
[18:44] <Neko> phew..
[18:44] <rsalveti> yeah
[18:44] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[18:44] <ogra> the rest will be fixed tomorrow or so
[18:44] <Neko> okay I am satisfied then
[18:44] <rsalveti> Neko: we still don't have images
[18:44] <rsalveti> since feb 16th
[18:44] <ogra> depending how fast the desktop team works
[18:44] <rsalveti> we expect this to be fixed this week
[18:45] <Neko> will there be a way to install a maverick-ish gnome desktop without unity?
[18:45] <ogra> we're waiting too
[18:45] <ogra> not when using ubuntu-desktop
[18:45] <Neko> but there's no new meta package to be back to the old behavior?
[18:46] <janimo> ogra, I am not sure u-2d need unity installed
[18:46] <Neko> I dunno. I like the IDEA of unity, just not the way it soaks up all the screen space with it's little menu bar
[18:46] <janimo> what pieces it uses from it?
[18:46] <ogra> janimo, the dash, icons etc
[18:46] <janimo> I don't see those in the depends
[18:47] <ogra> and iirc it build deps on libunity
[18:47] <janimo> I think there is some common C++ helper indeed
[18:47] <ogra> which should add it to debs through shlibs
[18:47] <janimo> but not unity (the apps ) itself
[18:47] <ogra> the point is that you can install all bits and pieces independently
[18:47] <ogra> i.e. i used the panel on a normal gnome desktop for a while here ;(
[18:48] <ogra> err
[18:48] <ogra> ;)
[18:48] <ogra> the unity package should probably have more recommends though
[18:48] <ogra> err
[18:48] <ogra> unity-2d indeed
[18:51] <ogra> GrueMaster, if you have some spare cycles today it would be nice to know if unity-2d still runs ... nowing that in advance before we have images would be helpful
[18:52] <GrueMaster> I'm already downloading the updates now.
[18:52]  * ogra hugs GrueMaster
[18:55] <Neko> I'm kind of impressed with how fast natty is just as a running system... I hacked in gnome and ambience theme and the backdrops and it's like lightning
[18:56] <Neko> unity seems to run okay it's just I had to spend 2 hours getting it to even install
[18:56] <Neko> but I understand, we had this problem during Maverick... trying to do work during the day before and the day after an alpha release = eek :D
[18:58] <GrueMaster> Neko, when booting, you can select classic desktop when logging in.  not sure if there are plans for a meta package.
[18:58] <Neko> it's no problem
[18:59] <Neko> it just scared me that I couldn't install ubuntu-desktop because it depends on unity and unity didn't work
[18:59] <Neko> which means no desktop ata ll
[18:59] <Neko> at all
[18:59] <Neko> I'll try it again mid-March and it will hopefully Just Work (tm) :)
[18:59] <ogra> you should try on thu.
[19:00] <Neko> release day? I doubt I will have good luck then :D
[19:00] <ogra> ??
[19:00] <Neko> we usually have frightening problems with bandwdith to the ubuntu servers
[19:00] <ogra> this thursday
[19:00] <Neko> Alpha 3 release date is Thursday
[19:00] <ogra> yes
[19:00] <Neko> hundreds of geeks downloading new ISOs, pulling packages for their alpha 2 systems...
[19:00] <ogra> that shouldnt affext ports.ubuntu.com though
[19:01] <Neko> in theory :D
[19:02] <GrueMaster> Neko: I have my own mirror of ports so I don't get hit by bandwidth issues.
[19:03] <Neko> I use approx so I have a good buffer but it doesn't help when 90% of stuff got rebuilt
[19:03] <GrueMaster> my mirror updates every 4 hours.  real slow for the first few weeks after UDS, but good overall.
[19:32] <ericb2> janimo: ping ?
[19:36] <janimo> ericb2, hello
[19:37] <ericb2> janimo: hi. Are you Jani Monoses ?
[19:37] <janimo> ericb2, yes
[19:37] <ericb2> janimo: maybe you'll be interested : I implemente the interlock part in arm assembler for armv7 +  in OOo4Kids
[19:38] <janimo> ericb2, regarding the recent bug I filed?
[19:38] <ericb2> janimo: in sal/osl/unx/interlck.c
[19:38] <ericb2> janimo: I'm not aware
[19:38] <janimo> I was under the impression we need to move away from asm
[19:38] <janimo> I sent a patch to libo to use gcc atomic builtins for that
[19:39] <ericb2> janimo: it woarks really wel on OOo4Kids
[19:39] <janimo> I think gcc does a good job for atomic ops nowadays
[19:39] <janimo> and imo the less ifdefs and assembly code the better :)
[19:39] <ericb2> janimo: looks like I did the same
[19:39] <janimo> ericb2, is that of fork of OO?
[19:39] <ericb2> janimo:  http://eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/arm_DEV300_m93.diff
[19:40] <ericb2> janimo: yes, OOo4Kids (and OOoLight ) is a fork of OOo
[19:40] <ericb2> janimo: only the atomic part might interest you
[19:40] <janimo> ah I see, so you created the original arm optimization patch for OO?
[19:40] <janimo> that is currently in natty
[19:40] <ericb2> janimo: I wrote this patch, but I don't know what other people dd with it :)
[19:41] <ericb2> janimo: on my BeagleBoard, the change is really visible
[19:41] <ericb2> janimo: and faster
[19:41] <ericb2> janimo: so far, no crash yet, but maybe the patch needs to be tested intensively
[19:42] <janimo> ericb2, it is a coincidence then, as I only filed a bug related to this against ubuntu libo today
[19:43] <janimo> I bet it is faster, the alternative used pthread mutexes
[19:43] <ericb2> janimo: yes. Some people like rene cry because I don't care armv6 or prior
[19:43] <janimo> still I think you'd get the same improvement and much cleaner code - no configure foo and no inline asm, using only the bits you used for arm <7 in your code
[19:43] <ericb2> janimo: what is the problem
[19:44] <ericb2> janimo: I tested both, and the inline asm is faster
[19:44] <janimo> ericb2, well you care for that too, by letting gcc do the right thing there
[19:44] <ericb2> janimo: since I added other fixes
[19:44] <janimo> I did not perf test but looking at the code generated by gcc I see the same sequence of instructions so I was hopiong the performance is more or less the same
[19:44] <ericb2> janimo: and the build is fine on Debian, on Ubuntu and on OE distributions (e.g. the one sakoman provides)
[19:45] <janimo> one fix needed is meory barriers
[19:45] <janimo> on beagle there is no need
[19:45] <janimo> but on SMP systems like the panda not using dmb can lead to bugs I guess
[19:46] <janimo> ericb2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/726529
[19:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 726529 in libreoffice "use arm assembly bits only for gcc < 4.6 on ARM > 6" [Undecided,In progress]
[19:46] <ericb2> janimo: you're probably right. I filed the code thinking people could be interested, and nobody can imagine all cases
[19:46] <ericb2> janimo: so any improvement is good to hear
[19:47] <janimo> ericb2, I think they were interested as long as your patch is part of the current LibO and former OO builds in Ubuntu
[19:47]  * ericb2 discovering the patch is part of current Libo
[19:47] <janimo> LibO in Ubuntu
[19:47] <janimo> it is a patch Ubuntu carries
[19:47] <ericb2> janimo: I know
[19:47] <janimo> but it was commited to LibO as well today
[19:47] <janimo> as it makes sense for older gcc build
[19:48] <ericb2> janimo: I was not aware. I don't follow Libo
[19:48] <ericb2> janimo: when Libo was decided, I was even not invited. Now, they can die
[19:48] <janimo> it was mentioned in the bugs filed.
[19:48] <ericb2> janimo: no problem
[19:48] <janimo> ericb2, I am not sure it was invitation based. I do not know the details
[19:49] <janimo> I am sure they have a better future than OO, it is a shame you parted ways
[19:49] <ericb2> janimo: well, I think I contribute since a long while to OOo, and not inform me was a choice. No problem for me anyway
[19:49] <janimo> they are responsive, I doubt you'll get your ARM patches in OO
[19:49] <janimo> ericb2, I am not sure every contributor was made aware of the fork before the announcement
[19:50] <janimo> if so it must have been an oversight in your case
[19:50] <ericb2> janimo: it was thought : use it if you consider it usefull. If not well that's no problem
[19:50] <ericb2> janimo: no, I was very close to people organising everything, and not inform me was a choice
[19:50] <janimo> I only got involved (slightly) since the fork and they come across as the most friendly project I have seen in a while
[19:51] <janimo> ericb2, sorry to hear that. HAve you asked them afterwads, did they clarify anything?
[19:51] <janimo> ericb2, is this ARM patch originally authored by you?
[19:51] <ericb2> janimo: I wrote it, yes
[19:51] <ericb2> janimo: but I didn't follow the story
[19:52] <ericb2> janimo: precisely, I wrote the one I provided you the link http://eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/arm_DEV300_m93.diff
[19:52] <janimo> hmm, sadly there is no attribution on the patch in Ubuntu
[19:52] <janimo> the one in ubuntu looks very similar
[19:52] <ericb2> janimo: as you can see, I backported it to OOo, making it more simpler for other forks,  people
[19:52] <ericb2> janimo: who commited it ?
[19:53] <ericb2> janimo: http://cia.vc/stats/project/OOo4Kids
[19:53] <ericb2> janimo: revision r1152
[19:53] <janimo> today it was Bjoern, the UBuntu Libo maintainer. It was part of the ubuntu tree for a long time so he probably did not know whom to attribute
[19:54] <ericb2> janimo: svn diff -cr1152 svn://svn.adullact.net/svnroot/ooo4kids1/trunk
[19:54] <janimo> what other changes does OO4kids have in general?
[19:54] <ericb2> janimo: no Java, OOo - 40%
[19:54] <ericb2> janimo: no Basic, just Python works
[19:54] <janimo> this 1152 commit is a few weeks old, is the patch older?
[19:54] <ericb2> janimo: and new UI, working with students
[19:56] <ericb2> janimo: the commit is the first time I published my code. After, I backported to DEV300_m93, and I uploaded the patch I shown you
[19:56] <ericb2> janimo: other patch, is attached to OOo issue zilla
[19:56] <ericb2> janimo: let me retrieve the link
[19:56] <janimo> ericb2, ok, for some reason I was under the impression the patch in Ubuntu is older, but I do not follow Ubuntu OO, it was just a coincidence I spotted this yesteday
[19:56] <ericb2> janimo: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=117017
[19:57] <ubot2> ericb2: Error: Could not parse XML returned by OpenOffice.org: timed out (http://openoffice.org/issues/xml.cgi?id=117017)
[19:57] <ericb2> janimo: I really wrote it
[19:57] <ericb2> janimo: I learned everything, and spent several nights to that
[19:58] <ericb2> janimo: and I ignored there was one similar patch on Ubuntu repo
[19:58] <ericb2> janimo: do you have the link ?
[19:58]  * ericb2 curious
[19:59] <janimo> checking
[19:59] <janimo> this went into LibO today http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/ure/commit/?id=83f2c071758ae7d74669d992e272e50057b895ed
[20:00] <janimo> I am not sure there's a plain Ubuntu patch except in a tgz somewhere
[20:02] <ericb2> janimo: the patch I attached to IZ and I commited is dated 19 february. I'm pretty sure I completed it one day before. This leads to 18 february. Here is the story I know
[20:02] <ericb2> janimo: what happens with gcc >= 4.6 ?
[20:04] <janimo> ericb2, it generated good enough code that it does not need to be manually written
[20:04] <janimo> I mean for the _sync_XXX stuff
[20:04] <ericb2> janimo: __sync_add_and_fecth, ___sync_sub_and_fetch and al ?
[20:05] <janimo> yes
[20:05] <ericb2> janimo: I see
[20:05] <janimo> that was part of your patch as well right?
[20:05] <ericb2> janimo: yes. Ben ( a guy building on qemu + Debian arm ), had an issue with that. Was my fault
[20:05] <ericb2> janimo: and I discoverd the stuff
[20:06] <ericb2> janimo: more precisely, he had an undefined  __sync_add_and_fetch_4  or something
[20:06] <ericb2> janimo: and after some grep's I discovered the thing, and had the idea to learn arm asm :)
[20:07] <ericb2> janimo: some years ago, I worked on m68k asm , and a bit on x86 asm too
[20:07] <ericb2> so was not much surprised
[20:08] <ericb2> janimo:  as I mentionned in the log, Simon Guinot, helped me (he explained me the change after armv5
[20:08] <ericb2> )
[20:09] <ericb2> janimo: e.g. swap  vs  ldrex strex
[20:09] <janimo> right
[20:10] <ericb2> janimo: I'm about to propose a subject for GSoC, about performance issues on arm
[20:10] <janimo> ericb2, hmm so that arm patch went into debian via Rene?I see it in the debian pkg changelog
[20:10] <ericb2> janimo: OOo4Kids is an elephant, and we can improve a lot
[20:10] <ericb2> janimo: probably
[20:10] <janimo> ericb2, I know OO is an elephant but I think much better gains could be had by doing higher level optimizations
[20:10] <ericb2> janimo: rene was crying a lot after me
[20:10] <janimo> before going low level
[20:10] <ericb2> janimo: he didn't read correctly the issue and he was red :)
[20:10] <janimo> like doing much less disk IO
[20:11] <ericb2> janimo: yes
[20:11] <janimo> and pruning code and duplication and 20 year iolkd cruft
[20:11] <ericb2> janimo: and remove lot of useless stuff
[20:11] <ericb2> janimo: and more if affinity ^^
[20:11] <janimo> at this point I think the code needs cleanup much more that asm level magic that only a ahdnful of devs understand well
[20:12] <ericb2> just time is missing me : I got a real life, a real job, a family, doing a lot of sport :)
[20:12] <ericb2> janimo: I'm in OOo code since 2004, and I worked a lot on the native Mac OS X port
[20:12] <ericb2> janimo: including the MAc Intel one (we had to dive into the bridge too)
[20:13] <doko_> ericb2: this is what Sweetshark did commit. http://libreoffice.pastebin.com/etTyZc5R   GCC-4.6 inlines the _sync_* primitives
[20:13] <ericb2> doko_: probably
[20:13] <ericb2> doko_: as I told, I didnt follow what happened since I donated the patch
[20:22] <ericb2> doko_: that's true I'd have appreciated to see my name mentionned somewhere though ...
[20:23] <doko_> ericb2: I didn't see any name within the patch, nor do I know where it was submitted ...
[20:24] <ericb2> doko_: it was originaly submitted to OOo IZ, to simplify the backports for all forks and so on.
[20:25] <ericb2> doko_: imagine it was submitted to LO, it would never have been reversed to OOo. So to respect everybody, the most simple was to attach it to OOo IZ
[20:25] <doko_> ericb2: please tell Sweetshark on #ubuntu-desktop
[20:48] <desrt> ogra: word up
[20:48] <ogra> hohoho
[20:49] <desrt> do you have any idea if we'll be getting alternate toolchains for arm?
[20:49] <desrt> particularly: non-eabi and softfloat variants?
[20:49] <ogra> alternate ? like LLVM ?
[20:49] <ogra> ah
[20:49] <desrt> not really important for the compiler and binutils as much as for the libgcc...
[20:49] <ogra> not in natty
[20:49] <desrt> this stuff is important for building u-boot :)
[20:50] <ogra> we will get a hardfloat port in natty+1 which will run in parallel with the current one
[20:50] <ogra> what for are you building u-boot ?
[20:50] <desrt> the kobo
[20:50] <desrt> i love this device
[20:50] <desrt> it's cheap and hell and quite awesome
[20:50] <ericb2> ogra: is hard float reliable ?
[20:50] <ogra> nice
[20:51] <desrt> it has a somewhat hacked up firmware installed
[20:51] <ogra> ericb2, according to markos_ who does the port in debian currently, it is, yeah
[20:51] <desrt> they released the code as a bunch of tarballs against old linux/redboot releases
[20:51] <desrt> and the patches are quite awful
[20:51] <ogra> what architecture is that ?
[20:51] <desrt> i've managed to get u-boot going on it and also have some patches against the kernel to make that work
[20:51] <ericb2> ogra: starting which proc ?
[20:52] <ericb2> ogra: for omap3 one told me it was not really. But maybe more recent is safe
[20:52] <ogra> angstrom is fully built in hardfloat mode afaik
[20:52] <ogra> since quite a while
[20:52] <ericb2> ogra: interesting
[20:55] <markos_> ericb2, it depends on what you mean by reliable, usually packages just work, but there are a few who need special attention :)
[20:55] <markos_> these are just a few though
[20:56] <markos_> debian has reached 87% and we're hoping we can reach 95% soon
[20:56] <ericb2> markos_: what can bring hardfloat exactly ?
[20:56] <markos_> er, a hardfloat abi?
[20:57] <ericb2> markos_: yes, I know, but in the real life:  is it that faster ?
[20:57]  * desrt thought that the change to eabi brought hardfloat with it
[20:57] <ericb2> markos_: just a question, because I didn't test yet
[20:57] <markos_> it depends on what apps you depend on
[20:57] <markos_> most apps benefit 5-30% depending on their use of fp
[20:58] <markos_> some don't benefit at all, while apps heavy on fp might be 200% faster (like a raytracer, like pov, yes it was actually 200% faster)
[20:58] <ericb2> markos_: the one I have in mind is OOo4Kids (an OOo fork)
[20:59] <ericb2> markos_: I'm working on performances issues, and am interested by everything who cold help in this domain
[21:00] <markos_> no idea how much better -if at all- OOo would be, though from my experience, anything that renders fonts is faster, ~20-25%
[21:00] <markos_> but ymmv with OOo
[21:01] <ericb2> markos_: so it is interesting
[21:01] <markos_> yes it is, that's what I've been trying to tell people all along :)
[21:03] <ericb2> markos_: do yo have a link, where I could read the flags being used, the cases .. and so on ?
[21:04] <ogra> you need the whole distro being built for hardfloat
[21:04] <ogra> the binaries wont run on a softfloat distro
[21:04] <markos_> ericb2, working on getting armhf d-i these days
[21:04] <ericb2> ogra: isn't there a flag allowing both ?
[21:05] <ericb2> markos_: great :)
[21:05] <markos_> ogra, well he coud use a chroot
[21:05] <ogra> they are binary incompatible
[21:05] <ogra> yeah. you could use a chroot
[21:05] <ogra> or a vm
[21:05] <ericb2> markos_: I'm not a specialist (arm is a jungle), but extremely curious and interested
[21:05] <ogra> both would work
[21:06] <markos_> ericb2, give me a few weeks, I've commited some armhf stuff to d-i, but there remain a few irritating points still to fix
[21:06] <markos_> anyway gotta go, have to tell a bedtime story :)
[21:06] <ericb2> markos_: I will. thanks :)
[21:06] <ogra> ubuntu will have it with the next release
[21:06] <ericb2> markos_: see you later
[21:06] <ogra> and slowly migrating 100% to it
[21:07] <ericb2> ogra: in fact, I'd like to provide an adapted version of OOo4Kids (or OOoLight)  for Ubuntu users
[21:07] <ogra> so watch this place ;)
[21:07] <ericb2> ogra: so I'll add what is mandatory, and stick your needs
[21:08] <ogra> if you could get it running with debian hf, you will also get it running in trhe upcoming ubuntu port
[21:08] <ericb2> ogra: currently, I got OOo4Kids building and working on natty
[21:08] <ericb2> ogra:  but I used soft fp
[21:09] <ogra> right, thats fine for natty
[21:09] <ericb2> ogra: ok
[21:09] <ogra> n+1 will have both
[21:09] <ogra> soft and hard
[21:09] <ericb2> ogra: the only thing I'll need is a new micro SD card: and I'll install any experimental version on it
[21:52] <Sweetshark> ericb2: ping?


[01:41] <jxshxx> After an upgrade to 13.04, I can't get internet through ethernet cable.  The wireless was busted before the upgrade.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!
[01:41] <holstein> jxshxx: "busted"?
[01:41] <holstein> jxshxx: the hardware is broken?
[01:42] <jxshxx> holstein: Would seem so.  When I checked for drivers, it told me the device was not working
[01:42] <jxshxx> holstein: But the ethernet worked for the upgrade
[01:43] <holstein> jxshxx: i usually test with a live CD, or with an operating system the device vedor states supports it, to be sure its not broken
[01:44] <holstein> jxshxx: otherwise, you are mentioning things which could be indicitive of failing or bad hardware.. i would start troubleshooting (of course after making backups of data) the memory and hard drive tests from a live CD
[01:44] <holstein> jxshxx: you'll want 13.10 anyways.. 13.04 is about EOL
[01:45] <jxshxx> holstein: It was probably 13.10  I upgraded in terminal.  Didn't pay attention.  Not a numbers guy :)
[01:45] <jxshxx> hol
[01:46] <holstein> jxshxx: if you try the 13.10 live cd, and it works, you can assume a few things. the installed system is the issue, and not the hardware, though, it still could be a bad hard drive
[01:47] <jxshxx> holstein: Everything else works, just no internet.
[01:47] <holstein> jxshxx: everythign works but not the internet from a live CD?
[01:47] <jxshxx> holstein: No, in it's current state
[01:47] <holstein> jxshxx: do you understand what i mean but "live CD"? this is an easy way to remove your currently installed system from the equation without breaking your currently installed setup in any way
[01:48] <jxshxx> holstein: Yes.  Shouldn't I be able to do that with the cd I have of the previous version?
[01:49] <holstein> jxshxx: sure, but, that doenst answer all the questions.. that is a different kernel, so, if all works on the 13.04 live CD, you cant assume the issue is with the live CD, it could also be that your hardware supports the 13.04 kernel and not the 13.10 one
[01:53] <jxshxx> holstein: I get it.  This is on an old laptop.  It's more a dvd player than anything now, but it'd be nice to be able to plug it in.  I was running 13.04, so it was after the upgrade to 13.10 that the ethernet quit.
[01:55] <holstein> jxshxx: i would back up the data, and be prepared for a fresh install, and work through the following questions. does my hardware support 13.10? is my hardware broken? can i get to a desktop and use all the hardware from a 13.10 liveCD.. if so, a fresh install would be what i would do
[01:56] <holstein> an install takes about 8 minutes
[01:56] <holstein> you can look in "lspci" and see if the system is seeing the hardware.. also, ifconfig in the terminal
[01:59] <jxshxx> holstein: The good news is there's nothing to back up.  Popping in the 13.04 cd now to see if it lets me connect w/ the www
[02:01] <jxshxx> holstein: I'm IN!
[02:03] <holstein> thats what i would use to download 13.10 and make installation media
[02:04] <jxshxx> download 13.10 through the 13.04 cd?
[02:05] <holstein> jxshxx: im just saying, thats how i would proceed..
[02:10] <jxshxx> holstein: Alrighty then!  Thanks for your help.  I wouldn't have thought to test via live cd.  Genius ... plain and simple.  Take no guff from any soul, and have a lovely eve.
[02:17] <holstein> jxshxx: good luck.. and if you want to check, ifconfig in the terminal can really help you see if the network devices are showing up
[03:19] <YaMoonSun> I want to use my 4GB flash drive to create a multiple boot installer using YUMI from pendrivelinux - Which option should I choose to for alternitive install?
[03:19] <holstein> YaMoonSun: just try the alternate ISO.. i dont know how well it works with yumi.. havent tried it
[03:20] <YaMoonSun> You're not much help then.. I'm already 'just trying' lol
[03:21] <holstein> YaMoonSun: cool.. enjoy!.. i dont think any documentation for either state the alternate iso's work
[03:22] <YaMoonSun> They're not detected by yumi simply by choosing lubuntu is why I asked - Where are you located?
[03:23] <holstein> YaMoonSun: i would start with something from here, if the errors are similar http://askubuntu.com/questions/194401/cant-install-alternate-cd-from-usb
[03:25] <YaMoonSun> I know you think you're helping, but long story short, tl;dr
[03:25] <holstein> YaMoonSun: i *am* helping.. as a volunteer. the way to use that iso should be similar if the error message is similar
[03:26] <holstein> i used to do that with unetbootin and the ubuntustudio iso's
[03:26] <holstein> if you dont find it helpful, no worries.. you can always try #ubuntu since there is a larger more active support community there, and you can reference yumi and *any* alternate iso there
[03:27] <YaMoonSun> Well, I just made an educated guess and so far no error - I'll try to boot up in a virtual drive once I finish adding installers. I don't know if I can keep adding after I leave the program.
[03:27] <YaMoonSun> No one ever talks in there, I keep getting the bot.
[05:12] <uBUXUBu> hi lubers
[07:55] <Foars> How would I go about burning the latest Lubuntu ISO to a disc? The typical Ubuntu instructions don't work with Ubuntu. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Burning_from_Ubuntu
[08:15] <YaMoonSun> So why does Richard Stallman call Ubuntu spyware and does that also apply to Lubuntu? =/
[08:16] <Foars> If I remember correctly, the search function in the Unity dock. When you search using it, that data is sent to Amazon or something.
[08:16] <Foars> Lubuntu doesn't use Unity, so no YaMoonSun.
[08:17] <Foars> You can disable that spyware feature before it even collects anything though.
[08:19] <YaMoonSun> Thanks, also, with 1GB memory should my swap partition not exceed 1024mb?
[08:22] <Foars> Not sure.
[08:23] <YaMoonSun> Ah, alrighty =3
[08:29] <Foars> I'll come back later.
[08:30] <YaMoonSun> Alright - I think I need a reboot myself. =3
[20:49] <noahsamgabe> Is anyone here?
[20:57] <genii> noahsamgabe: Best to just ask a question if you have one, and then to see if anyone takes up an answer :)
[20:59] <zleap> noahsamgabe, how can we help?
[21:00] <noahsamgabe> oh, I just clean installed Lubuntu on my old laptop and I have a dark screen with no icons on the left. There are a few icons on the very bottom left that I can get to, but I would like a nice appearance on the screen and icons showing on the left. please
[21:00] <noahsamgabe> dang, I just cleaned installed lubuntu
[21:00] <noahsamgabe> am new with all of this.
[21:01] <zleap> so you need to change the desktop wallpaper then and general appearance
[21:02] <noahsamgabe> yes, please      i see no icons on the left
[21:02] <zleap> you can put icons on the desktop if you want
[21:02] <noahsamgabe> yes, need some wall paper
[21:02] <noahsamgabe> and icons
[21:02] <zleap> right click, desktop preferences
[21:02] <noahsamgabe> o.k.
[21:03] <zleap> for icons to applications right click and new shortcut
[21:03] <noahsamgabe> right clicking brings up add to desktop or properties
[21:04] <zleap> erm
[21:04] <zleap> are you clicking on a blank area of the desktop
[21:05] <noahsamgabe> left clicking on my laptop brings up desk top preferences box
[21:05] <noahsamgabe> oh
[21:05] <zleap> ok i right clcik here and select that from a menu that comes up
[21:05] <zleap> what version are you using
[21:06] <noahsamgabe> o.k. so go to create new and then to shortcut?
[21:06] <zleap> yeah
[21:07] <zleap> you can then add shortcuts to programs, if you know the name of the program as in what is executed when you r un it
[21:07] <zleap> what do you want to add
[21:07] <noahsamgabe> Well, I thought I downloaded 14.04, but at first it said 13.10 and at the end it said 14.04
[21:07] <zleap> ok
[21:08] <zleap> ok get to a terminal window, and type lsb_release -a
[21:08] <zleap> that will tell you what you are running
[21:08] <noahsamgabe> I have Ubuntu on another computer and it's icons come up on the left and i can go into appearances and pic one, but I don't seem to know how to do that here in Lubuntu.
[21:09] <noahsamgabe> o.k.   want me to go to a terminal still?
[21:09] <zleap> do you have an icon bar going down the left hand side on the other computer
[21:10] <noahsamgabe> yes
[21:10] <zleap> maybe that is running ubuntu, this channel is for lubuntu which runs on xfce, ubuntu runs unity
[21:11] <noahsamgabe> I am on Lubuntu now which I have clean installed on my daughter's old computer. It has a black screen and no icons on the left. Should I still go to a terminal for you?
[21:11] <zleap> yeah can do
[21:11] <noahsamgabe> o.k. hang on
[21:11] <noahsamgabe> k   got it
[21:11] <zleap> but that may simply tell you what version you're running lubuntu is based on ubuntu so it gives ubuntu version
[21:12] <zleap> lsb_release -a
[21:12] <zleap> gives you info on what you are running
[21:12] <noahsamgabe> lsb  command can't be found
[21:13] <zleap> lsb_release -a
[21:13] <zleap> there is an underscore between lsb and release
[21:14] <noahsamgabe> gotcha    o.k.    It says Ubuntu Trusty Tahr    14.04     yes!
[21:15] <zleap> ah so you are running lubuntu 14.04 which is the development / testing of the next release due in april 2014
[21:15] <noahsamgabe> ohhhh    what should I do now
[21:15] <zleap> if you are happy running beta / alpha then carry on
[21:16] <noahsamgabe> which means?
[21:16] <noahsamgabe> will this one make a difference in the long haul? Will this one work?
[21:16] <zleap> it could be  unstable etc,  could crash, due to new software being added
[21:16] <zleap> if you want stable install 13.10
[21:17] <zleap> if you want help with 14.04 join #lubuntu+1
[21:17] <noahsamgabe> soooooooo   oh dear... ummm  o.k. install 13.10, but how long does it last or is supported?
[21:17] <zleap> erm
[21:18] <noahsamgabe> do you think i'll be o.k. for awhile with this trial 14.04 until the real one comes out?
[21:18] <zleap> it may be
[21:19] <zleap> just that it could be prone to issue,  as its testing
[21:19] <zleap> so people add stuff that needs testing so it could break things
[21:19] <zleap> as i said ask in #lubuntu+1
[21:19] <noahsamgabe> yes, and I'll try #lubuntu+1       dang       alright...    thanks for your answers. I appreciate it.
[21:19] <zleap> np
[21:19] <noahsamgabe> bye
[21:19] <zleap> cya
[21:47] <Foars> How would I go about burning the latest Lubuntu ISO to a disc? The typical Ubuntu instructions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/communityu/BurningIsoHowto#Burning_from_Ubuntu don't work with Lubuntu.
[21:49] <holstein> Foars: should work fine.. lubuntu *is* ubuntu
[21:50] <holstein> Foars: you dont copy the iso to a disc.. you have to make a copy of the actual disk.. using the iso as the source, and the disc as the destination
[21:50] <Foars> holstein if you have a look at that link, you can't follow the instructions on Lubuntu.
[21:51] <holstein> Foars: im just tring to straigten the link out.. its 404'ing for me
[21:51] <holstein> Foars: regardless, its the same for all the iso's.. you can dd copy all of them now as well
[21:51] <holstein> Foars: i think it is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Burning_from_Ubuntu that you are looking at
[21:52] <Foars> Ooops: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Burning_from_Ubuntu
[21:52] <Foars> Yea.
[21:52] <holstein> Foars: is the issue you are running lubuntu? and using a different burner
[21:52] <holstein> Foars: from *any* burner, that is the proceedure..
[21:52] <holstein> Foars: make a copy of the disk.. the source is the iso, the blank disk is the copy..
[21:54] <Foars> I guess I'll just have to look for some burning software, or try to fix my issue with my current burning software.
[21:55] <holstein> Foars: whats the issue? what software? xfburn?
[21:55] <holstein> Foars: you can always install brasero if that is what you are more comfortable with
[21:59] <Foars> Yes, xburn holstein. paste.ubuntu.com/6747224/
[22:00] <holstein> !info brasero
[22:00] <holstein> sudo apt-get install brasero ...or from whatever package manager you like
[22:01] <Foars> Alright, I'll try this. Thank you.
[22:16] <Ahmuck> hola.  is there a font viewer for lubuntu?
[22:23] <holstein> Ahmuck: i thought gimp opene them?
[22:23] <holstein> opened* and edited
[22:25] <Ahmuck> i'm looking for a way to browse fonts in directories or the system without having to open every one through gimp
[22:29] <holstein> !info gnome-font-viewer
[22:30] <holstein> Ahmuck: i would just go with that..
[23:47] <Ahmuck> holstein: that is perfect.  thx
[23:48] <Foars> Is there a channel for brasero? There's one one the gnome IRC, with only one other person there. Or should I just ask here?
[23:49] <holstein> Foars: wont hurt to ask. you can also ask in #ubuntu, since its an ubuntu repo package
[23:50] <Ahmuck> Join us at our IRC channel: #brasero at irc.gimp.org
[23:50] <holstein> Ahmuck: i would just ask here, and if no one has anything, ask in #ubuntu.. if you want to join the gimps irc, go for it
[23:51] <Foars> I'm there Ahmuck, you don't appear to be.
[23:51] <Foars> Just me and hyperair.
[23:51] <Foars> I get a "Size Estimation" dialogue box, itt reads: "Please wait until the estimation of the size is completed."/"All files need to be analysed to complete this operation." and has a progress bar with no progress. It's been sitting there for quite a while.
[23:51] <holstein> Ahmuck: sorry... Foars , i would just ask here


[08:51] <lnnk> Will kubuntu 24.04 provide future updates of kde 5.27 as its a LTS released. As kde 5.27 provide only security patch and bug fixes? will those updates be added to kubuntu?
[11:22] <lnnk> Will kubuntu 24.04 provide future updates of kde 5.27 as its a LTS released. As kde 5.27 now only provide security patch and bug fixes will those updates come to kubuntu 24.04 too?
[14:13] <tomreyn> lnnk: unless documented otherwise, you should expect that any Ubuntu flavour will provide security support (but usually not feature updates, though there can be exceptions) for all of its central packages for the entirety of its expected support lifetime.
[14:19] <tomreyn> meaning if an LTS release provides 'somepackage' version 1.2.3 as a pre-installed package at its release, you can expect that 'somepackage' will receive security patches for as long as this LTS is supported - unless documented otherwise. also, its main version number will usually not rise above 1.2.3 (but additional numbers will be appended to that with a hyphon, to indicate updates for security / bug fixes) unless an exception is made or this
[14:19] <tomreyn> is a snap or a special package where upstream releases are being followed (such as it's the case for some web browsers)
[20:13] <valorie> lnnk:
[20:14] <valorie> oops, already answered
[20:31] <Guest73> hello i have a problem with kubuntu it will only load if i choose recovery mode i have a laptop with a nvidia gpu
[20:32] <Guest73> dose anyone know ho to fix  this should i do a new install?
[20:34] <bprompt> Guest73: well, I don't :), but I'm not using 24.04, I plan to get it in July
[20:35] <Elliria> Did you recently do an update, Guest73?
[20:35] <bprompt> Guest73: hmmm what I can think of, run on recovery, from the recovery menu drop to a "root session", and from there issue an "fsck" on the root mount pount
[20:35] <bprompt> point even
[20:40] <Elliria> In the event that it was a botched update that installed the new kernel and the NVIDIA drivers in the wrong order (it does happen), these are my Rescue 9-1-1 steps for when that happens: https://bpa.st/DKDA
[20:43] <Guest73> i installed kubuntu on my laptop with nvidia gpu but i can only load it thru the repair mode
[20:51] <Elliria> It might have the same issue that can happen on update. The kernel and the NVIDIA driver may have been installed in the wrong order.
[20:51] <Elliria> It's worth a try.
[20:52] <Elliria> The NVIDIA driver must be installed after the kernel so that it can use the kernel for its configuration. If the driver gets installed first, you can't get into the operating system. It's very annoying.
[20:53] <Elliria> I asked in the development channel whether there's someone there who could put a conditional statement in that checks if a video driver and kernel are going to be installed at the same time and then do them in the right order and was told there's no way to control the order.
[20:53] <Elliria> As a result, I just keep those steps handy. Also, when I check for updates, if I see a kernel and NVIDIA drivers, I always manually uncheck the NVIDIA drivers and let the kernel install first, then let the NVIDIA drivers update afterwards.
[20:54] <Elliria> The only time I run into trouble is with those pesky unattended updates that happen automatically if you put off doing an update.
[20:55] <bprompt> Elliria: unless you turn those updates off
[21:00] <Elliria> The automatic ones?
[21:02] <bprompt> Elliria: yeap, I mean, I have automatic updates from "apt" all disabled, since I do them manually whenever
[21:05] <Elliria> Ah, cool. It seems that I don't, since I ignored some updates the other day while watching a video and then found that it did them for me, darn it.
[21:07] <bprompt> Elliria:  yeap, I don't like that, since I save all .deb files, usually if anything happens or need to reinstall a package
[21:08] <Elliria> I don't. I live dangerously, but should probably do that, too.
[21:08] <bprompt> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "0";     <---- usually at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades
[21:09] <bprompt> or APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "0";   <--- same location
[21:09] <Elliria> Interesting. I don't have that file on my system. Did you add it?
[21:10] <bprompt> Elliria: yeap
[21:10] <Elliria> Cool. Thanks.
[21:11] <bprompt> well, actually, did that a long time ago, I think I did, but you can add any file to /etc/apt/apt.conf.d   it reads any configuration when running "apt", doesn't matter the name of the file, so long is there
[21:12] <Elliria> I do have it. Typo. Heh.