[06:20] <wgrant> apachelogger: Sure, either poke me or ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[07:54] <apachelogger> wgrant:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/162746 :)
[07:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: google runs dbus?
[08:01] <wgrant> apachelogger: Ah, indeed. I will hopefully look at that tonight if I am not too jetlagged.
[08:02] <apachelogger> wgrant: thanks
[08:03] <wgrant> apachelogger: Renamed, and I've added a redirect.
[08:03] <apachelogger> uh, now that was fast :D
[08:04]  * apachelogger hugs wgrant
[08:04] <apachelogger> kubotu: order beer for wgrant
[08:04]  * kubotu gives wgrant a nice frosty mug of beer.
[08:04]  * wgrant -> further flights
[08:30] <bambee> morning
[09:51] <CIA-52> [kde-wallpapers] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (11 files in 4 dirs) import from whatever once was kdebase-workspace
[09:51] <CIA-52> [kde-wallpapers] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/source/lintian-overrides remove plunder
[10:18] <apachelogger> yofel: ping
[10:18] <apachelogger> yo bambee
[10:18] <bambee> yo!
[10:19] <apachelogger> you should totally become packager ^^
[10:19] <bambee> until I get a response from upstream, I can continue to work on kde-workspace :(   (or we need to package kdelibs-experimental)
[10:20] <bambee> apachelogger: me?
[10:20] <apachelogger> yes, like full time, stop doing stupid coding and such ;)
[10:20] <bambee> s/I can / I cannot/
[10:20] <kubotu> bambee: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[10:20] <bambee> kubotu: shut up!
[10:20] <apachelogger> actually, talking about coding ... patch the stuff away
[10:21] <apachelogger> kde-workspace as it is yellow, must not be delayed really
[10:21] <apachelogger> yofel: why did you not upload akonadi to the archive right away?
[10:21] <bambee> so we don't package the plasmoid which required kactivies+kdeclarative?
[10:22] <apachelogger> yeah
[10:22] <apachelogger> or perhaps that include is bogus anyway
[10:22] <apachelogger> who'd know
[10:22] <bambee> ok
[10:22] <apachelogger> bambee: you might however want to drop a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to speed things up a bit
[10:23] <bambee> apachelogger: ok
[10:23] <bambee> "stop doing stupid coding and such "   heh... :P
[10:25] <apachelogger> yofel: we should consider formattting the dep graph differently
[10:25] <apachelogger> it is sorta unreadable
[10:36] <bambee> see you
[11:30] <yofel> apachelogger: I'm open for suggestions. What I thought about was remove any package that only depends on kde-sc-dev-latest. Problem: not all packages actually depend on that so that would be bogus
[11:30] <yofel> apachelogger: as for akonadi: I'm no kubuntu-dev?
[11:31] <yofel> yet
[11:31] <apachelogger> zomg
[11:46] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (5 files in 2 dirs) (log message trimmed)
[11:46] <CIA-52> Reintroduce 80qtgraphicssystem to set raster system for testing once more In Qt
[11:46] <CIA-52> 4.8 raster will be the default rendering system, thus KDE needs to work well
[11:47] <yofel> raster works fine for a while now here, what did that even break before?
[11:47] <apachelogger> plasma-netbook
[11:47] <apachelogger> and kwin
[11:47] <apachelogger> and the combination of them
[11:47] <apachelogger> and rekonq
[11:48] <yofel> ah
[11:54] <yofel> can anyone reproduce lp 802131 ? WFM in oneiric
[11:54] <apachelogger> no
[11:56] <apachelogger> rproigram
[11:56] <apachelogger> that goes beyond typo
[11:56] <yofel> ^^
[11:57] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* bin/kgetsource add script to branch/pull source and grab src tar from upstream and add changelog entry
[12:06] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* bin/kgetsource introduce new tar class and link upstream tar to orig.tar.bz2 name
[12:08] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog (log message trimmed)
[12:08] <CIA-52> Introduce kgetsource to help with getting bzr branches, upstream source tar and
[12:08] <CIA-52> other related stuff. Currently only supports ftpmaster. Usage like: kgetsource
[12:10] <apachelogger> oh
[12:10] <apachelogger> right
[12:10] <apachelogger> fun
[12:10] <apachelogger> yofel: what to do with kdepim?
[12:10] <yofel> leave in experimental and upload 4.6.90 to oneiric
[12:11] <apachelogger> but why
[12:11] <yofel> why leave in experimental?
[12:11] <apachelogger> cause I have not seen evidence that it qualifies for major distribution
[12:11] <apachelogger> neither have I seen a call for testing
[12:12] <apachelogger> but that is a given as the entire team fails to community stuff, but that is no news
[12:13] <yofel> right, partly my fault too I guess, esp. since it took me a while to get the packaging review done
[12:13] <yofel> but it's true that 4.6.0 isn't something to put into the archive
[12:14] <yofel> right now it doesn't list my mails in the kubuntu-devel folder for some reason o.O
[12:14] <yofel> I would see if 4.6.90 fixes anything and then think about where to put it
[12:14] <apachelogger> well
[12:14] <apachelogger> if anything 4.6.90 should go to experimental too
[12:15] <apachelogger> kdepimwise
[12:15] <apachelogger> which of course introduces inter-ppa deps and brrrrrr
[12:16] <yofel> Well, now that I have (hopefully) fixed any packaging bugs in kdepim I can put an announcement out that it would be nice if people could test it (if they know how to backup stuff)
[12:22] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, here is a good question: should the changelog contain entries from the old package?
[12:22] <apachelogger> such as kdeedu -> blinken
[12:23] <yofel> so far nobody seems to have done that, so I would start fresh
[12:26] <CIA-52> [blinken] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (11 files in 4 dirs) import
[12:29] <CIA-52> [blinken] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/control bump kde-sc-latest
[12:29] <bulldog98> apachelogger: I can’t confirm the KDEPIM stuff on oneiric, but it seems like he/she is using natty
[12:30] <yofel> right, I have a natty PC I'll test on later
[12:30] <apachelogger> I am on natty and cant confirm it
[12:31] <apachelogger> best just have the dude create a new account and test with a new setup
[12:33] <CIA-52> [blinken] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/control add kdelibs5-dev bdep
[12:51] <apachelogger> license fail
[12:51] <apachelogger> \o/
[12:56] <apachelogger> I really dunno what shadeslayer was bitching about dep5
[12:56] <apachelogger> utterly nice thing
[12:56] <yofel> It's confusing, but if you're right, if you handle it like a control file it's understandable
[12:56] <yofel> *bug you're right
[12:57] <yofel> *but you're right
[12:57] <yofel> typo day
[12:57] <apachelogger> kubotu: order beer
[12:57]  * kubotu gives apachelogger a nice frosty mug of beer.
[12:57] <apachelogger> typo day must be celebrated
[13:08] <apachelogger> yofel: if I repack a tar to get copying in do I suffix the version with +copying or +repack?
[13:09] <yofel> no idea, did you take copying from the old tar, or..?
[13:14] <apachelogger> yofel: nah, upstream
[13:14] <apachelogger> ah
[13:14] <apachelogger> yofel: you mean debian/copyright?
[13:15] <yofel> you were talking about COPYING, but I would say repack
[13:15] <yofel> do you know where to complain about missing copyright in smoke?
[13:18] <apachelogger> yofel: upstream
[13:18] <apachelogger> rdale IIRC
[13:20] <CIA-52> [blinken] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/copyright update copyright
[13:20] <CIA-52> [blinken] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog Repack tarball to include copies of GPL2 and GFDL1.2
[13:46] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I shall be absent for the upcoming week
[13:46] <yofel> WHAT?
[13:46] <apachelogger> YES!
[13:46] <Quintasan> Worry not for I shall help with 4.6.90 packaging today
[13:46] <Quintasan> lol
[13:47] <yofel> k, if you get everything done today I won't complain :P
[13:47] <Quintasan> yofel: What's with kdepim-runtime
[13:47] <yofel> what's the problem?
[13:47] <Quintasan> Well, it's yellow and nobody is doing it
[13:47]  * Quintasan claims
[13:48] <yofel> well, it's... well, you know... kdepim :P
[13:48] <apachelogger> more importantly we do not know where to put it
[13:48] <yofel> that too :/
[13:49] <Quintasan> Why is that?
[13:49] <yofel> ask rysiek :P
[13:49] <Quintasan> Oh, that
[13:49]  * Quintasan does modules instead
[13:49] <yofel> well, that too, but when I tried it just now it didn't want to list my mails
[13:50] <yofel> without any kind of error
[13:50] <yofel> just that the mail list was empty (after letting me wait for a minute)
[13:51] <Quintasan> I do not think we should bother with it until it somehow works
[13:51] <Quintasan> We are not *cough*Chakra*cough* to put something like that into archive
[13:52] <yofel> right, which brings us back to the question where to put kdepim 4.6.90
[13:52] <Quintasan> experimental?
[13:52] <Quintasan> staging?
[13:52] <yofel> then I need to give out a warning to all users of 4.6.0 that we'll be putting 4.6.90 in there which depends on kde 4.7
[13:53] <Quintasan> Well, isn't it better that shipping it to everyone?
[13:53] <yofel> and staging isn't supposed to be used for something like this, though it would actually be an option
[13:54] <yofel> well, true
[13:55] <Quintasan> I'm not everyone here so you'd want ScottK's and apachelogger's opinion on tht
[13:55] <Quintasan> that*
[13:57] <apachelogger> experimental
[13:57] <apachelogger> along with kdelibs and kdepimlibs copies of 4.6.90
[13:58] <apachelogger> kdelibs and kdepimlibs are covered by ABI stability policy, so this should not inflict damage outside the pim modules
[13:58] <yofel> I'll post a news item for 4.6 later with a message to disable experimental if you don't want 4.7
[13:58] <apachelogger> oh and akonadi needs to go in
[13:58] <apachelogger> yofel: how so?
[13:58] <Quintasan> This entirely sucks
[13:59] <yofel> ah, I forgot about the ABI policy. I guess there shouldn't be too much damage then
[13:59] <apachelogger> if anything we'd include 4.7 + 4.6.90 surely holds vast improvements over 4.6
[13:59] <Quintasan> Why on Earth 4.7 depends on something so not isable?
[13:59] <Quintasan> usable*
[13:59] <Quintasan> Typo Day
[13:59] <yofel> well, upstream considers it usable
[13:59] <Quintasan> They considered 4.0 usable too :)
[13:59] <yofel> well and we shipped that, didn't we? ^^
[14:00] <Quintasan> Well, at least 4.0 was marked as TP
[14:00] <Quintasan> noone forced anybody to use it
[14:00] <yofel> hm, kdebase devs are lazy. no symobl updates in kde-baseapps...
[14:00] <apachelogger> this all would be much less a problem with https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/373197
[14:00] <jussi> Quintasan: so how about you tell me some words you want in that factoid, and Ill fix it...
[14:00]  * yofel subscribes
[14:00] <Quintasan> jussi: Fair enough
[14:01] <jussi> Quintasan: we could also teach Princess butterfly how to do it at the same time ;)
[14:01] <apachelogger> you tought me like 5 times already
[14:01] <jussi> rofl
[14:01] <apachelogger> not important enough knowledge
[14:01] <apachelogger> or too much booze consumed meanwhile
[14:01] <apachelogger> who'd know
[14:02]  * jussi smacks apachelogger over the back of the skull :P
[14:02] <jussi> be good :D
[14:02] <Quintasan> jussi: Project Neon provides set of daily builds of KDE and releated modules | See https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ProjectNeon | More support in #project-neon
[14:02] <apachelogger> I always get them beatins
[14:03] <apachelogger> and never know why
[14:03] <apachelogger> it is wicked
[14:03] <apachelogger> yofel: promoting all that plunder to main is gotta be fun
[14:03] <jussi> Quintasan: that should be under !neon?
[14:03] <jussi> !neon
[14:03] <Quintasan> jussi: yeah
[14:03] <yofel> yeah, esp. since I have no idea how the current smoke packages are supposed to survive a MIR
[14:03] <jussi> !no, neon is <reply> Project Neon provides set of daily builds of KDE and releated modules | See https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ProjectNeon | More support in #project-neon
[14:03] <yofel> need some redo
[14:03] <jussi> !neon
[14:04] <yofel> the techbase page would be nice to have in there
[14:04] <yofel> sec.
[14:04] <yofel> http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Using_Project_Neon_to_contribute_to_KDE
[14:05] <jussi> yofel: generally we try to keep it to one wiki link, unless really necessary
[14:05] <Quintasan> kdeadmin done
[14:05] <Quintasan> uploading
[14:05] <apachelogger> you know
[14:05] <yofel> well ok, we do have the link on the wiki page
[14:05] <jussi> is that link on the wiki page?
[14:06] <jussi> :D
[14:06] <yofel> ^^
[14:06] <apachelogger> the ~team/pkg/ubuntu branch naming is sorta stupid
[14:06] <Quintasan> omfg
[14:06] <apachelogger> ~team/ubuntu/pkg would be much bettar
[14:06] <yofel> make Riddell add aliases for that
[14:06] <apachelogger> well, generally it sucks a bit
[14:06] <yofel> well, ubuntu/* is taken...
[14:07] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:07] <apachelogger> bstds
[14:07] <yofel> make a 'packaging'  Project
[14:07] <apachelogger> well, that could also work
[14:08] <apachelogger> kubuntu-packaging
[14:09] <yofel> we just need a kubuntu:kde-runtime alias and all would be fine
[14:10] <apachelogger> I asked jr for that
[14:10] <apachelogger> he did not yet come up with code
[14:10] <yofel> yeah :/
[14:10] <apachelogger> of course superior VCS can have alises out of the box :P
[14:11] <yofel> yeah, though getting Riddell to add alias support is easier than making LP devs implement git support
[14:12] <yofel> fooey, konq-plugins is in kde-baseapps now
[14:12] <yofel> well, one source package less at least
[14:16] <yofel> wgrant: can you please rename the 'kdebase' project into 'kde-baseapps' ? Thanks
[14:19] <CIA-52> [kruler] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (9 files in 4 dirs) import
[14:21] <apachelogger> yofel: do you know of a script that can link an arbitary tar to one that qualifies as orig tarball?
[14:21] <apachelogger> Quintasan: or you perhaps?
[14:21] <yofel> hm, I think uscan does something like that when it gets a new package version from the watch file
[14:22] <apachelogger> yeah, but that is built in
[14:24] <Quintasan> apachelogger: No idea, can't you just write a quick and dirty?
[14:24] <apachelogger> quick and drity haha
[14:24] <apachelogger> take a look at kgetsource in kubuntu-dev-tools :P
[14:24] <apachelogger> that thing to 3 classes
[14:26]  * Quintasan waits for build to finish and pushes kdeadmin to bzr
[14:27] <Quintasan> apachelogger: no such file in there
[14:27] <Quintasan> bsides, ruby
[14:27] <Quintasan> :S
[14:29] <Quintasan> apachelogger: want a proof that GIT is not actually superior?
[14:32] <apachelogger> Quintasan: does it include prn?
[14:32] <Quintasan> nope, it includes 4.6.90 tarballs
[14:41] <apachelogger> show me prn
[14:41] <yofel> I believe that would just end up in proving that Dirk isn't superior and have no actual value for git :P
[14:45] <Quintasan> apachelogger: any idea if we still want http://paste.kde.org/88033?
[14:45] <Quintasan> yofel: ^
[14:45] <apachelogger> Quintasan: so what is with me prn?
[14:46] <Quintasan> nothing
[14:46] <apachelogger> meh
[14:46] <apachelogger> about that patch
[14:46] <apachelogger> it is dirt
[14:46] <apachelogger> dirty package = dirty patch
[14:46] <apachelogger> and I blame you
[14:47] <apachelogger>  The person named in the Author field signed this changelog entry.
[14:47] <apachelogger> Author: Michał Zając<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:47]  * Quintasan purges it with fire
[14:47] <Quintasan> Blame me if something bad happens
[14:48] <yofel> sure
[14:50] <Quintasan> Pushed.
[14:52] <yofel> meh, and there I was wondering why the list-missing output in kde-baseapps was empty
[14:52] <yofel> konq-plugins.install:
[14:52] <yofel> usr/*
[14:52] <Quintasan> lol
[14:57] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (bin/klinksource debian/changelog) Add klinksource to link arbitary tar.* to a qualified .orig.tar.*
[14:57] <apachelogger> yofel, Quintasan^
[14:57] <Quintasan> Cool, but why bother?
[14:58] <apachelogger> Quintasan: how do you get hold of a .orig?
[14:58] <Quintasan> copy and rename
[14:58] <Quintasan> probably worng
[14:58] <Quintasan> wrong*
[14:58] <yofel> copy and rename in the same line :P
[14:58] <Quintasan> GOD DAMN
[14:59] <apachelogger> that still requires you to change the stuffz manually
[14:59] <Quintasan> what is the shortcut for ubuntu packages?
[14:59] <apachelogger> major pointlessness
[14:59] <yofel> well, I have the new source in a seperate folder, so I would've to edit the script I guess
[14:59] <apachelogger> the pattern is silly enough to script that crap, just tell it the tar you want an orig for and be done with it
[14:59] <apachelogger> yofel: why do you have the new source in a seperate folder?
[15:00] <apachelogger> build-area is all one needs
[15:00] <apachelogger> omnomnom build-area
[15:00] <apachelogger> Quintasan: which one?
[15:00] <apachelogger> upkg?
[15:00] <apachelogger> usrc?
[15:00] <Quintasan> whatever
[15:00] <Quintasan> vm
[15:00] <Quintasan> nvm
[15:01] <yofel> apachelogger: I use rsync to get the new tars?
[15:01] <yofel> so they end up in a new folder
[15:01] <apachelogger> scp FTW
[15:01] <apachelogger> also that is where the new kgetsource script comes in
[15:01] <yofel> well, I did use sftp and 'get *.bz2' for a while, but still
[15:02] <yofel> I'll consider it at some point
[15:02] <apachelogger> kgetsource :P
[15:02] <yofel> maybe for the next package
[15:05] <apachelogger> [Build #2593633] i386 build of kde-baseapps 4:4.6.90-0ubuntu1~ppa3 in ubuntu oneiric RELEASE (kubuntu-ninjas PPA)
[15:05] <apachelogger> who be uploading kaput software?
[15:05] <yofel> me, I messed up konq-plugins
[15:06] <yofel> I wonder if I should just merge them into konqueror now that they're in the same source
[15:06] <Quintasan> DO ET
[15:07] <Quintasan> How do I force sed to write the change back to file?
[15:08] <tsimpson> add -i
[15:08] <yofel> nah, rather not, the source dir is seperate and there's no knowing when they'll move that around again, I'll leave the worrying to the debian folks
[15:08] <Quintasan> tsimpson: grep 4.6.0 *.install | sed s/4.6.0/4.7.0
[15:08] <Quintasan> I do it like this
[15:08] <tsimpson> ah, well then you need to script it then
[15:08] <mfraz74> Will this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/797067 get fixed in the Kubuntu Natty PPAs?
[15:09] <apachelogger> tsimpson, Quintasan: actually that moots the point of having the files with their so version in the installs
[15:09] <tsimpson> Quintasan: something like: for f in $(grep -l 4.6.0 *.install); do sed -i s/4.6.0/4.7.0/g $f; done
[15:09] <Quintasan> What?
[15:10] <Quintasan> tsimpson: I did it with sed s/4.6.0/4.7.0/g *.install
[15:10] <Quintasan> :P
[15:10] <yofel> apachelogger: how? we're bumping to .7
[15:10] <tsimpson> I don't trust sed with multiple files, not sure why now I think about it
[15:10] <Quintasan> yofel: It's just apachelogger mumbling
[15:10] <yofel> that's the same for ALL kde libs
[15:10] <tsimpson> besides, mine is 1337
[15:11] <yofel> mfraz74: add a task for the 'kubuntu-ppa' project and I'll look at it later
[15:11] <apachelogger> yofel: for kdelibs
[15:11] <apachelogger> not for everything else
[15:11] <yofel> well, pretty much any lib that's shipped in a kde package was bumped
[15:13] <apachelogger> ah dang
[15:13] <apachelogger> forgot copyright
[15:13] <apachelogger> G
[15:13] <mfraz74> yofel: how do I do that?
[15:14] <apachelogger> awoga
[15:14] <apachelogger> no copying
[15:14] <apachelogger> good lawd
[15:14] <yofel> mfraz74: also affects project -> kubuntu-ppa
[15:17] <Quintasan> kdemultimedia done
[15:19] <mfraz74> yofel: done
[15:20] <yofel> thanks
[15:21] <Quintasan> hmm
[15:21] <Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/88063
[15:21] <Quintasan> to kmix.install?
[15:21] <yofel> probably, doesn't look like a speperate mixer widget to me
[15:22]  * Quintasan rebuilds and uploads
[15:23] <CIA-52> [kruler] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog repack baby
[15:23] <CIA-52> [kruler] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/copyright copyright++
[15:23] <Quintasan> ONWARDS, TO GLORY!
[15:24]  * Quintasan builds the easy stuff first
[15:24] <apachelogger> watch out for missing license copies!!!!!!
[15:33] <Quintasan> PUSH'd
[15:35] <Quintasan> [ninjas]% kgetsource                                                              (quintasan@nightwalker:..e/packaging/ninjas)
[15:35] <Quintasan> NEED MORE ARGS YE BSTD
[15:35] <Quintasan> [ninjas]% kgetsource --help                                                       (quintasan@nightwalker:..e/packaging/ninjas)
[15:35] <Quintasan> NEED MORE ARGS YE BSTD
[15:35] <Quintasan> apachelogger:
[15:35] <Quintasan> ^^
[15:35] <Quintasan> wtf
[15:36] <Quintasan> HOW DO I USE THIS?
[15:41] <Quintasan> apachelogger: fcking useless
[15:50] <yofel> kdebase copyright is fun, I didn't know someone named
[15:50] <yofel> Copyright (c)  YEAR  YOUR NAME
[15:50] <yofel> existed
[15:51] <Quintasan> lol
[15:52] <yofel> so much for proper copyright files from debian...
[15:54] <yofel> Copyright (C) 19yy  <name of author> Isn't quite up to date either
[16:01] <apachelogger> Quintasan: kgetsource kdepim 4.6.90 unstable
[16:03] <JontheEchidna> moin
[16:05] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/88087
[16:05] <shadeslayer_> plz review : https://code.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/kate/ubuntu
[16:05] <yofel> morning JontheEchidna
[16:06] <shadeslayer_> then i'll push to kubuntu-packagers
[16:07] <yofel> you sure notice that nobody cared about the kdebase copyright file for 2 years...
[16:08] <apachelogger> Quintasan: ah, right, you need to define the epoch
[16:08] <apachelogger> for the tarball download it will be stripped automagically
[16:14] <CIA-52> [kruler] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/control use ksnapshot page on kde.org as homepage
[16:15] <apachelogger> yofel: well, you really ever only write a copyright file once :P
[16:15] <yofel> yeah, I'm at least stripping out the parts that are long gone and add konq-plugins
[16:15] <yofel> and trying to update the rest as possible
[16:16] <apachelogger> perhaps spdx will improve this at some pont
[16:16] <yofel> we need something to auto-generate a dep-5 file so one only has to recheck it
[16:20] <apachelogger> impossible(tm)
[16:20] <yofel> true :S
[16:20] <apachelogger> not without having a format for copyright and license info first
[16:20] <apachelogger> which might or might not be doable for corekde
[16:20] <yofel> well, the GPL header is somewhat specified
[16:20] <yofel> the rest...
[16:21] <apachelogger> it is not just that, it is how the license and copyright is formatted and placed etc.
[16:21] <yofel> k, kde-baseapps should be Done™
[16:22] <apachelogger> there is a reason dep5 is so very strict in its definition
[16:22] <yofel> yeah, that dep-5 is script parsable is nice, that doesn't help in its creation though
[16:26] <apachelogger> I reckon that is what spdx is meant to resolve
[16:26] <yofel> shadeslayer_: can you make kate-dbg Break/Replace kdebase-dbg? kwrite was in kdebase
[16:26] <CIA-52> [ksnapshot] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (9 files in 4 dirs) * New upstream release * Initial release (moved out of kdegraphics)
[16:26] <yofel> kdelibs-dbg probably too
[16:27] <apachelogger> why is there a kate-dbg?!
[16:27] <yofel> because there's a kate source?
[16:27] <apachelogger> we haz dbgsym
[16:27] <yofel> yeah right, make them enable that for PPAs
[16:27] <apachelogger> -dbg packages for 50 additional packages are nothing good at all
[16:27] <yofel> until then I'll always add -dbg stuff wherever possible
[16:27] <apachelogger> yofel: tell them
[16:28] <yofel> apachelogger: there is a bug, they don't want to do it
[16:28] <apachelogger> you drain production system user resources by introducing a bazillion dbg packages
[16:28] <yofel> they made it theoretically possible though
[16:28] <yofel> ok, I'll add an empty override_dh_stip: target then, better?
[16:28] <yofel> come on
[16:29] <apachelogger> they do show up in the package lists
[16:29] <yofel> we can't debug stuff without debug packages
[16:29] <apachelogger> means apt-get update takes longer, meaning the local cache will use more space etc etc
[16:29] <yofel> and we're using PPAs rather excessively
[16:29] <apachelogger> yofel: there surely is a better option than adding them manually
[16:29] <yofel> for PPAs no(t yet)
[16:29] <apachelogger> why not
[16:30] <apachelogger> how about dbg package injection
[16:30] <apachelogger> given soyuz allows this at all
[16:30] <yofel> I'm all for -dbgsyms, but as long as pkg-create-dbgsym is disabled in the PPA builders we can't use them°
[16:30] <yofel> s/°/!
[16:30] <apachelogger> pkg-kde-tools could inject the appropraite package into control when the build is in a PPA
[16:30] <shadeslayer_> yofel: ah yes, i forgot about that
[16:30] <yofel> hm, that might actually be an ide
[16:30] <yofel> *idea
[16:31] <shadeslayer_> yofel: why kdelibs-dbg?
[16:32] <yofel> iirc that kate kpart was in kdelibs
[16:32] <shadeslayer_> kate was in kdesdk
[16:32]  * shadeslayer_ checks
[16:32] <shadeslayer_> ah, yes
[16:32] <yofel> libkatepartinterfaces4
[16:32] <shadeslayer_> anything else>
[16:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/88123
[16:33] <yofel> control line 8 shows ascii junk, at least on the web 0;115;0c
[16:33] <shadeslayer_> @_@
[16:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yes?
[16:34] <yofel> Vcs lines are missing
[16:34] <Quintasan> apachelogger: look at the link
[16:34] <Quintasan> and pwd
[16:34] <yofel> are you using pkg-kde-tools?
[16:34] <apachelogger> ah
[16:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: that explains why my link is kaput ^^
[16:34] <Quintasan> Fix thos
[16:34] <Quintasan> this*
[16:34] <Quintasan> TypoDay--
[16:35] <yofel> ~karma typoday
[16:35] <kubotu> karma for typoday: -1
[16:35] <shadeslayer_> yofel: done
[16:35] <yofel> typoday--
[16:35] <CIA-52> [kubuntu-dev-tools] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* bin/kgetsource go into build-area and link the stuffz
[16:35] <yofel> pushed?
[16:36] <apachelogger> yuz
[16:36] <apachelogger> good lawd
[16:36] <apachelogger> someone write a mail to kde-devel and kde-core-devel about proper licensing
[16:36] <apachelogger> I am going mad here
[16:36] <shadeslayer_> ^^
[16:36] <shadeslayer_> yofel: anything else that you find wrong?
[16:37] <yofel> shadeslayer_: did you push? LP didn't update yet
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> oh ... haven't pushed, one sec
[16:38] <shadeslayer_> done
[16:39] <yofel> well, you could remove the version from kdebase-dbg, but nvm that. Can't see anything obviously wrong there
[16:40] <Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/88135
[16:40] <Quintasan> SO MUCH FUN
[16:40] <yofel> apachelogger: want to look at smokeqt? That has no licensing information whatsoever
[16:40] <apachelogger> hahaha
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> i find versioned breaks/replaces better
[16:40] <apachelogger> you epople will have to look at the ksnapshot copyright file
[16:40] <apachelogger> it is ludicrous
[16:40] <apachelogger> like every kde developer holds copyright on them 10 files ^^
[16:40] <yofel> sure, just that the package is gone now -> kde-baseapps-dbg
[16:40] <yofel> but right, less breakage potential
[16:41] <shadeslayer_> ok then, will push to kubuntu packagers
[16:42] <yofel> sure, can you review lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kdebase/ubuntu r173 if you're done?
[16:42] <shadeslayer_> alright
[16:43]  * yofel takes a break and looks at #797067
[16:47] <Quintasan> It's me or kubuntu_05_samba_sharing.diff just got upstream?
[16:47] <Quintasan> The best day in kdenetwork's history
[16:48] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: i think so, not entirely syre
[16:48] <shadeslayer_> *sure
[16:48] <shadeslayer_> rbelem: ^^
[16:48]  * Quintasan hates bzr-buildpackage
[16:50] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: have fun at the skateboarding rampage :D
[16:50] <Quintasan> kk
[16:50] <Quintasan> Thanks
[16:50] <CIA-52> [ksnapshot] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/copyright add copyright ole!
[16:51] <Quintasan> shadeslayer_: Any idea how to hook up bzr-buildpackage with pbuilder?
[16:51] <shadeslayer_> nope
[16:52] <shadeslayer_> oh oh
[16:52] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: --builder pdebuild ?
[16:52] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: found it here : https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/Bzr
[16:52]  * Quintasan uses pbuilder-dist
[16:53] <shadeslayer_> pbuilder-dist then ?
[16:53] <yofel> wasn't that a backport of the 4.7 samba sharing stuff in the first place?
[16:54] <CIA-52> [ksnapshot] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog repack++
[16:54] <shadeslayer_> wtf :   Uploading kate_4.6.90-0ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes: 2k/3k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
[16:54] <shadeslayer_> Note: This error might indicate a problem with your passive_ftp setting.
[16:54] <shadeslayer_>       Please consult dput.cf(5) for details on this configuration option
[16:54] <Quintasan> Ignore it
[16:54] <Quintasan> LP haz some screws loose today
[16:55] <yofel> lp 798957
[16:55] <shadeslayer_> oh so it was alread uploaded?
[16:55] <shadeslayer_> ah there we go
[16:55] <shadeslayer_> just got them mails
[16:56] <shadeslayer_> yofel: question, shouldn't the branch be renamed as well?
[16:56] <shadeslayer_> ( for kdebase )
[16:57] <yofel> it should, but I need wgrant to rename the project
[16:57] <shadeslayer_> ah ok
[16:57] <Quintasan> I think we dropped our biggest patch file
[16:57] <yofel> I changed the vcs lines already, just the LP side of things needs to be done
[16:58] <apachelogger> Quintasan: we dropped shadeslayer_?
[16:58] <shadeslayer_> what
[16:58] <Quintasan> PATCH
[16:58] <Quintasan> lol
[16:58] <Quintasan> cat shadeslayer_
[16:58] <shadeslayer_> imma patch? 0.o
[16:58] <Quintasan> :/
[16:58] <yofel> lol
[16:58] <shadeslayer_> kshadeslayer.patch :P
[16:59] <Quintasan> debian/patches/shadeslayer_not_bloggin.patch
[16:59] <Quintasan> :
[16:59] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: i did blogz
[16:59] <Quintasan> cat "blog moar" > /dev/brain
[16:59] <shadeslayer_> Quintasan: yeah, i have another one coming up, but its about GSoC Work
[17:00] <CIA-52> [ksnapshot] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/control add xfixes and kipi, fortunately enough kipi is not packaged yet
[17:00] <Quintasan> dohohohoh
[17:00] <yofel> Quintasan: you frogot that dev/brain -> /dev/null
[17:00] <Quintasan> lol
[17:00] <shadeslayer_> . . .
[17:00] <Quintasan> U mad?
[17:00] <shadeslayer_> /dev/brain is actually /dev/random
[17:00] <apachelogger> Quintasan: y u no blog?
[17:00] <shadeslayer_> ^^
[17:01] <yofel> well, I need to write up a summary for neon again soon
[17:01] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: libkipi!!!!!
[17:01] <yofel> might as well think of some random blog topics
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> yofel: another question, weren't we aiming for modularity? why was konq-plugins merged into one package
[17:01] <Quintasan> apachelogger: No working EGL yet?
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: yes, i'm working on it right now
[17:01] <yofel> shadeslayer_: how should I know?
[17:01] <apachelogger> FASTARRRRRR
[17:01] <Quintasan> lol
[17:02] <Quintasan> MOAR
[17:02] <apachelogger> Quintasan: no, didn't look at it anymore
[17:02] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: nearly done
[17:02] <apachelogger> kaput beyond repairz
[17:02] <Quintasan> apachelogger: then no blogs
[17:02] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: want to do the copyright file? :P
[17:02] <yofel> at least kde-baseapps has copyright info
[17:02] <yofel> unlike smoke -.-
[17:02] <shadeslayer_> yofel: wait, so, all these plugins were seprate earlier?
[17:02] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: you could tell me if the kispey has appropriate copying files
[17:02] <apachelogger> or else I could fix that
[17:02] <apachelogger> since I have all them stuffz open
[17:02] <apachelogger> you know
[17:03] <apachelogger> we could like write a gui for dep5
[17:03] <apachelogger> it would be ultimately useless
[17:03] <yofel> shadeslayer_: huh? they were in konqueror-plugin-* until 4.6.1 when debian put them into konq-plugins and now the source was put into kde-baseapps
[17:03] <shadeslayer_> oh ok ^^
[17:03] <yofel> so not much binary diff from 4.6 to 4.7
[17:03] <yofel> just different source package
[17:04] <yofel> but yeah, it was seperate before
[17:04] <apachelogger> it was only sep because it was extraaaar gear
[17:05] <yofel> oh right
[17:05] <shadeslayer_> new moin moin sux
[17:05] <yofel> now what did I want to wrok on again...
[17:05] <shadeslayer_> ^^ typo day
[17:05] <yofel> ah knosloe
[17:06] <yofel> mm works ok for me recently
[17:06] <yofel> after I finally managed to log in
[17:06] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: new?
[17:06] <apachelogger> hahahahahahah
[17:06] <apachelogger> hahahahhahaahahahhaahhahahahaahahahaahahaha
[17:06] <apachelogger> hahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahah
[17:06] <yofel>  /mute apachelogger
[17:06]  * apachelogger needs to go for a smoke now
[17:07] <shadeslayer_> ok kipi is mostly GPL \o/
[17:07] <yofel> lucky you
[17:07] <apachelogger> I once had GPL
[17:08] <apachelogger> then I switched to BSD
[17:08] <apachelogger> now I haz no code no moar
[17:08] <shadeslayer_> oooh
[17:08] <shadeslayer_> not alot of copyright authors too
[17:08] <shadeslayer_> only 64 including dupes
[17:09] <apachelogger> KIPSEY!!!!
[17:09] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: wth is that?
[17:09] <apachelogger> yofel: shadeslayer_ is holding up the entire machinery
[17:10] <shadeslayer_> . . .
[17:10] <yofel> there's plenty of other things todo :P
[17:11] <apachelogger> no there isnt
[17:11] <apachelogger> oh
[17:11] <yofel> which reminds me I need to do smokekde
[17:11] <apachelogger> actually
[17:11] <apachelogger> I should be preparing for them exams
[17:11] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: gimmeh 30 minutes
[17:11] <apachelogger> oh
[17:11] <apachelogger> and for them train rides
[17:11] <apachelogger> oh gosh
[17:11] <yofel> and I wonder if I should send a mail to -packagers re copying -.-
[17:12]  * yofel wonders what he should do with the bug that's crawling across his screen........
[17:13] <apachelogger> yofel: copying?
[17:14] <apachelogger> hm
[17:14] <apachelogger> copy the bug
[17:14] <apachelogger> G
[17:14] <yofel> lol
[17:14] <yofel> copyright stuff I mean
[17:14] <apachelogger> today is not typo day, today is day of insanity
[17:14] <shadeslayer_> hey packagers, i have a bug for you
[17:14] <apachelogger> yofel: copyright stuff?
[17:14] <apachelogger> what ye mean?
[17:14] <yofel> apachelogger: the missing of it?
[17:14] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: actually that would get yofel flamed for being funny
[17:14] <apachelogger> yofel: of where?
[17:14] <yofel> make that absence
[17:15] <yofel> lol
[17:15] <apachelogger> no distro but youbuntoo gives a rats booty
[17:15] <apachelogger> (I think)
[17:15] <apachelogger> (I am pretty sure)
[17:15] <Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/88153
[17:15] <apachelogger> (actually I know for all the ones that upstream cares about)
[17:15] <yofel> apachelogger: well, try to do the copyright file for smokeqt, using None as copyright
[17:16] <shadeslayer_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2011-04-26 06:26 /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL -> GPL-3
[17:16] <shadeslayer_> O_O
[17:16] <yofel> or can we actually say the package has no copyright
[17:16]  * yofel doubts that somehow...
[17:17]  * apachelogger thinks that copyright is not important as long as license is free
[17:17] <Quintasan> what do I do with that one?
[17:17] <apachelogger> just like there is no obligation that the copyright holder must be a real person
[17:17] <apachelogger> Quintasan: copying
[17:17] <Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/88153
[17:17] <shadeslayer_> so if licensecheck says the license is GPL, do i assume GPL 3?
[17:17] <yofel> Quintasan: that should be batchpatch -v 4:4.6.90
[17:18] <shadeslayer_> since it's not specified which version of the GPL its refering too
[17:18] <yofel> maybe the file is so ancient that it means ^
[17:18] <yofel> *1
[17:18] <Quintasan> YEAH
[17:18] <Quintasan>   #MISSING: 4:4.6.90# _ZNK6Kopete12OnlineStatus12protocolIconEv@Base 4:4.3.4
[17:18] <Quintasan> bump on libkopete?
[17:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: you should look at the source file
[17:19] <shadeslayer_> aha
[17:19] <apachelogger> Quintasan: red alert, red alert!
[17:19] <shadeslayer_> its GPL 2+
[17:19] <yofel> Quintasan: if the symbol is public I think yet
[17:19] <yofel> *yes
[17:20] <shadeslayer_> licensecheck is busted then
[17:20] <Quintasan> apachelogger: huh?
[17:21] <Quintasan> how do I know if it's public yofel?
[17:21] <apachelogger> Quintasan: is there a libkopete?
[17:21] <apachelogger> Quintasan: more importantly do we package libkopete?
[17:21] <yofel> get the function name from c++filt and check the source
[17:21] <yofel> first check if the file is even installed
[17:21] <apachelogger> even more importantly do we package the headers for that libkopete?
[17:21] <Quintasan> libkopete4
[17:21] <yofel> listen to apachelogger
[17:21] <Quintasan> libkopete-dev.install
[17:22] <Quintasan> looks like we do both
[17:22]  * Quintasan bumps
[17:22] <yofel> do we install the header files that provide that function?
[17:23] <apachelogger> ahahah
[17:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: shoot the upstream
[17:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: right now
[17:23] <apachelogger> quickly!
[17:23] <yofel> huh?
[17:23]  * Quintasan shoots #kde-devel
[17:23] <apachelogger> no
[17:23] <apachelogger> #kopete
[17:23]  * Quintasan goes unicorn stampede in #kopete
[17:23] <apachelogger> yofel: regardless of whether we install it, they need to bump their so before release
[17:24] <yofel> ah, right
[17:25] <Quintasan> Should I go and complain about that?
[17:26] <Quintasan> apachelogger: more like, should I go there and make hell there
[17:28] <NCommander> ScottK: I looked at your patch for QT4, its san
[17:28] <NCommander> ^e
[17:31] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yes
[17:31] <apachelogger> I demand war!
[17:32] <apachelogger> once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
[17:32] <Quintasan> What do I want them exactly to do?
[17:33] <Quintasan> to bump it and poke Dirk to include it in tarball?
[17:37] <shadeslayer_> btw would this package name be alright? : kipi-libs-data
[17:37] <shadeslayer_> or do i make it kipilibs-data / libkipi-data
[17:41] <apachelogger> leaving for train
[17:41] <apachelogger> see y'all tomorrow or so
[17:41] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: bye :)
[17:58] <DarthFrog> Will KDE 4.7 RC be packaged for Natty?
[18:13] <yofel> shadeslayer_: libkipi-data would be my choice, as long as the package is libkipi
[18:13] <shadeslayer_> hmm .. ok
[18:14] <shadeslayer_> ok kipi is done
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> yofel: do we create new projects for every package?
[18:18] <yofel> yes
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> ok then, need to have a libkipi project then
[18:25] <shadeslayer_> plz review :
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/libkipi/ubuntu
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> yofel: kdebase looks good
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> or rather kde-baseapps
[18:31] <yofel> :)
[18:31] <yofel> hey bambee
[18:32] <bambee> yofel: hey
[18:39] <bambee> I will ask on #plasma/plasma ML (don't worry), but in my humble opinion we should package kdelibs-experimental
[18:39] <bambee> see yourself http://paste.ubuntu.com/633147/
[18:39] <bambee> and conclude
[18:40] <bambee> (libs/kworspace, kwin, plasma/desktop/shell ....)
[18:40] <yofel> no, plasma in kdelibs was fixed to not depend on experimental, same should apply to kde-workspace
[18:40] <bambee> really? I did not know that
[18:40] <yofel> that list is just great...
[18:40] <yofel> ah, you're not on packagers...
[18:41] <yofel> and Harald is gone -.-
[18:41] <bambee> no...
[18:41] <bambee> I should?
[18:42] <yofel> well, the pre-release discussion is done there, although you probably should do some more packaging since we need someone to vouch for you (e.g. Harald)
[18:44] <bambee> yofel: I already had a discussion with Riddell about that, he does not want to subscribe a non member user :)
[18:44] <yofel> I know, I remember it
[18:49] <yofel> shadeslayer_: do you know how one should name experimental packages? libkactivities5-experimental ?
[18:49] <shadeslayer_> we shouldn't ship experimental packaages
[18:49] <shadeslayer_> -a
[18:50] <yofel> sure, but look at bambee's paste
[18:50] <bambee> yofel: I can disable  plasma/generic/tools/remote-widgets-browser
[18:50] <bambee> but the rest...
[18:50] <shadeslayer_> yofel: it was decided on the plasma ml that they will insert headers in the plasma sources
[18:50] <shadeslayer_> and thus statically link against the
[18:50] <shadeslayer_> *them
[18:50] <yofel> when?
[18:50] <bambee> I propose to disable it because we cannot drop kdeclarative from it (see plasma/generic/tools/remote-widgets-browser/main.cpp)
[18:50]  * yofel clones kde-workspace git
[18:51] <shadeslayer_> it was on the plasma ml, and i can get you the thread name, but can't get the actual email link
[18:51] <shadeslayer_> cuz i can't access most of the kde websites
[18:53] <yofel> wow, kde-workspace git is huge, and it doesn't even have the wallpapers...
[18:53] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[18:53] <shadeslayer_> btw any issues with libkipi?
[18:53] <yofel> ah, didn't look yet, sry
[18:54] <shadeslayer_> the thread name is : [4.7 Beta1 blocker] plasma depending on kdelibs/experimental
[18:54] <yofel> I remember *that* thread
[18:54] <bambee> yofel: you should get it from ftpmaster.. :)
[18:54] <yofel> and kdelibs/plasma was fixed
[18:55] <bambee> (I mean, ftpmaster.k.o)
[18:55] <shadeslayer_> here's the thread : http://paste.kde.org/88231
[18:55] <yofel> bambee: I wanted 4.6.90+
[18:55] <bambee> ok
[18:56] <yofel> bambee: sure it's failing?
[18:56] <bambee> yofel: what?
[18:56] <yofel> there is kde-workspace/libs/kworkspace/kactivityinfo.h
[18:56] <yofel> so it shouldn't need kdelibs/experimental
[18:57] <yofel> or do they just include the headers and try link statically against kdelibs?
[18:57] <bambee> why there are exactly the same headers in kdelibs-experimental ? o_O
[18:57] <yofel> bambee: so it doesn't depend on kdelibs-experimental
[18:58] <yofel> which isn't allowed as we just discussed
[18:58] <bambee> ahhh...
[18:58] <yofel> hm, no, the .cpp files are there too, so there should be no reason for it to fail
[18:59] <shadeslayer_> bambee: try again with new tarball from git
[18:59] <bambee> shadeslayer_: ok
[18:59] <yofel> nah, there doesn't seem to be a change from 4.6.90 three
[18:59] <yofel> *there
[19:00] <shadeslayer_> oh .. then why does it fail 0.o
[19:00] <yofel> bambee: what's the actual failure
[19:00] <yofel> ?
[19:00] <bambee> I will try again
[19:00] <bambee> wait
[19:02] <wgrant> yofel: What needs renaming?
[19:02] <yofel> kdebase -> kde-baseapps
[19:03] <yofel> shadeslayer_: libkipi looks fine
[19:03] <shadeslayer_> \o/
[19:03] <wgrant> yofel: Done.
[19:03]  * shadeslayer_ does the upload dance
[19:04] <shadeslayer_> wgrant: oh while you're at it, can you move a branch ?
[19:04]  * yofel hugs wgrant
[19:04] <wgrant> shadeslayer_: Possibly.
[19:04] <wgrant> Which, and where?
[19:04] <shadeslayer_> one sec
[19:05] <shadeslayer_> https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/kdegraphics/libkipi now has a project : https://launchpad.net/libkipi
[19:06] <shadeslayer_> https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/kde-baseapps/kate now has a project https://launchpad.net/kate
[19:07] <yofel> while at it:
[19:07] <yofel> lp:~neon/kde-baseapps/kde-baseapps should be lp:~neon/kde-baseapps/master and linked to lp:kde-baseapps
[19:07] <yofel> kill the existing trunk branch
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> yofel: can i upload ksnapshot?
[19:08] <yofel> ask apachelogger, in his absence I would say yes
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> well he isn't here so ..
[19:09] <wgrant> shadeslayer_, yofel: I can't move those, but you could through the API.
[19:10] <yofel> I'll read the docs later then
[19:10] <shadeslayer_> alright, thanks!
[19:10] <wgrant> from launchpadlib.launchpad import Launchpad; lp = Launchpad.login_with('blah whatever', 'production'); lp.load('/~neon/kdegraphics/libkipi').setTarget(project=lp.projects['libkipi'])
[19:25]  * shadeslayer_ tries
[19:26] <shadeslayer_> wgrant: well i used lp-shell and it gives me a 404 when i run lp.load('/~neon/kdegraphics/libkipi').setTarget(project=lp.projects['libkipi'])
[19:27] <shadeslayer_> here's the entire paste : http://paste.kde.org/88243
[19:32] <shadeslayer_> more weirdness ... staging gives me a KeyError 0.o
[19:32] <wgrant> shadeslayer_: Ah, launchpadlib bug. It tried to reload the entry with the old URL.
[19:32] <wgrant> So the move succeeded.
[19:33] <wgrant> https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/libkipi/libkipi
[19:33] <shadeslayer_> alright
[19:34] <bambee> piou... I have cleaned my processor fan... I won 25°C  o_O
[19:35] <shadeslayer_> fixed kate too
[19:35] <shadeslayer_> wgrant: can you link those branches to lp:kate and lp:libkipi?
[19:37] <wgrant> shadeslayer_: Both done.
[19:37] <shadeslayer_> thanks :)
[19:38] <yofel> wgrant: and lp:~neon/kde-baseapps/master to lp:kde-baseapps
[19:43] <bambee> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/633168/
[19:44] <yofel> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lkactivities is not linking statically...
[19:44] <bambee> have a look at plasma/desktop/shell/CMakeLists.txt (it's explicitly linked against kactivities)
[19:48] <bambee> shadeslayer_: found, http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=130596894032402&w=2
[19:48] <yofel> right, which sounds wrong... try to remove kactivities in that line
[19:48] <shadeslayer_> ok wth .... i can open that url 0.o
[19:48] <shadeslayer_> but i can't open kde.org
[19:51] <shadeslayer_> uh
[19:51] <shadeslayer_> gwenview : image viewer
[19:51] <shadeslayer_> thats it? 0.o
[19:52] <bambee> so the solution would be to link plasma-desktop against kactivities statically ?
[19:52] <shadeslayer_> bambee: yes
[19:53] <shadeslayer_> more of a workaround till kdelibs is fixed really
[19:53] <bambee> I agree
[19:55] <bambee> yofel: ping me when you've done for libkactivities
[19:56] <shadeslayer_> can't access launchpad now
[19:56] <shadeslayer_> wtf
[19:56]  * shadeslayer_ kills his ISP provider with fire
[19:56] <shadeslayer_> bbiab
[19:58] <yofel> well, if we can fix kde-workspace I would rather leave kdelibs as it is
[20:12] <shadeslayer_> any ideas what a debian/installgen file does?
[20:13] <shadeslayer_> there's nothing about it on the new maintainers guid
[20:13] <shadeslayer_> s/guid/guide/
[20:13] <kubotu> shadeslayer_ meant: "there's nothing about it on the new maintainers guide"
[20:13] <yofel> nope, was wondering that too...
[20:13] <yofel> could be an ancient predecessor of the .install files
[20:14] <shadeslayer_> well what is it doing in kdegraphics/debian/installgen then :P
[20:17] <shadeslayer_> yofel: oh also, are you using the "Kubuntu Packages" text while building packages?
[20:17] <shadeslayer_> in the rules file
[20:17] <yofel> don't think so....
[20:18] <shadeslayer_> should/shouldn't we?
[20:19] <yofel> I only see the kdelibs cmake file looking for that, but haven't check too many packages
[20:21] <bambee> yofel: fixed
[20:21] <shadeslayer_> hmm
[20:22] <yofel> bambee: good
[20:25] <bambee> workspace-wallpapers has been moved outside kde-workspace ? (no wallpapers are installed )
[20:25] <yofel> right, that's kde-wallpapers now
[20:26] <bambee> http://paste.ubuntu.com/633179/ :D
[20:26] <bambee> yofel: ah ok
[20:26] <bambee> it does make sense then...
[20:30] <shadeslayer_> i think this is the longest copyright i've seen in KDE : Copyright: © 1991-2009, Thomas G. Lane.
[20:32] <shadeslayer_> oh fooey
[20:53] <apachelogger> geee
[20:54] <apachelogger> what is the deal with them stupid mountains and their even more stupid tunnels
[20:54] <apachelogger> eek
[20:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: you spammed me!
[20:54] <shadeslayer_> did i?
[20:54] <apachelogger> failed ksnapshot
[20:54] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: the FTBFS?
[20:55] <shadeslayer_> ah blame launchpad for delayed publishing of packages
[20:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_, yofel: installgen is used to generate .install files based on the ruleset in installgen
[20:55] <apachelogger> lord modax wrote it some time ago IIRC
[20:55] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: do we still require it?
[20:55] <apachelogger> dh_installgen is the bin that does the work
[20:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: why yes
[20:55] <apachelogger> except
[20:55] <apachelogger> due to the split you mostly can install everything and your mom
[20:56] <apachelogger> as one source == one binary, thus rendering installgen useless for those usecases
[20:56] <apachelogger> for multi-binary sources it is still useful
[20:56] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: is this file documented somewhere?
[20:56] <apachelogger> except no one of you knows how to use it :P
[20:56] <shadeslayer_> couldn't find it
[20:56] <apachelogger> puny humans
[20:56] <shadeslayer_> hahaha
[20:56] <apachelogger> must be the reason yofel is no kubuntu-dev
[20:57] <apachelogger> then again at UDS some comments from Quintasan_ made me wonder why he is :P
[20:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: I think dh_installgen is in pkg-kde-tools
[20:57] <apachelogger> there should be documentation one way or another
[20:58] <apachelogger> though with modax I would say, he implemented a documentation paradigm like mine, meaning commit message documentation :P
[20:58] <shadeslayer_> well there's no man entry for dh_installgen
[20:58] <apachelogger> ... what I said ...
[20:59] <shadeslayer_> ^_^
[21:02] <yofel> yeah right, apt-file can't even find dh_installgen
[21:03] <yofel> which century is that from? ^^
[21:05] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: my terminal is all sorts of fluffy :P http://i.imgur.com/GsIyY.png
[21:06] <yofel> http://old.nabble.com/Learn-packaging-td29507365.html indicates they're not used anymore
[21:06] <yofel> apachelogger is outdated :P
[21:06] <shadeslayer_> hahaha
[21:07] <apachelogger> I said they are useful, I did not say that they are used
[21:08] <ScottK> NCommander: And as an added bonus it seems to be working.
[21:08] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:08] <yofel> apachelogger: <apachelogger> for multi-binary sources it is still useful
[21:08] <yofel> hm
[21:08] <yofel> nvm
[21:08] <apachelogger> ...
[21:09] <yofel> at least we know we can ignore them
[21:09] <apachelogger> the format is rather tedious and IMHO prone to error though
[21:09] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGPYSE4nXUM
[21:09] <apachelogger> what would make more sense is associate packages with folders then decide where to put stuff based on what target cmake got the files from
[21:09] <yofel> . . .
[21:11] <apachelogger> I might just implement that
[21:11] <shadeslayer_> ok wth everything just got installed into /usr/local :/
[21:12] <apachelogger> you haz broken the packaging
[21:12] <apachelogger> congrats
[21:14] <shadeslayer_> i have a idea what i did wrong
[21:14]  * shadeslayer_ tries to fix
[21:29] <sheytan_> apachelogger did you see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc ?
[21:32] <shadeslayer_> nope, not working, still wants to install to /usr/local
[21:32] <shadeslayer_> sheytan_: thats quite old ^_^
[21:32] <yofel> what happened to lightdm-kde btw.? (though the rc has priority right now)
[21:33] <sheytan_> shadeslayer_: but still cool :D
[21:33] <shadeslayer_> yeah :)
[21:41]  * yofel uploads konsole
[21:41] <yofel> that dput error is getting annoying...
[21:41] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[21:43] <shadeslayer_> btw any ideas why gwenview is installing stuff into /usr/local? ( rules : http://paste.ubuntu.com/633212/ , build log : http://paste.ubuntu.com/633213/ )
[21:46] <yofel> shadeslayer_: and where is the problem there?
[21:46] <yofel> you DO realize that svgpart is in another package?
[21:47]  * shadeslayer_ stares at changelog
[21:47]  * yofel thinks shadeslayer_ is too tired to package
[21:47] <yofel> shadeslayer_: you should rather stare at svgpart-4.6.90.tar.bz2
[21:47] <shadeslayer_> heh
[21:48] <yofel> and then wonder why your gwenview install file wants to isntall svgpart
[21:48] <yofel> *install
[21:49] <shadeslayer_> i actually didn't check the build log thouroughly and thought it wanted to install stuff into /usr/local like last time
[21:49] <yofel> . . .
[21:49] <shadeslayer_> yeah, i'm going to take a bit of a break after gwenview
[21:52] <shadeslayer_> i guess gwenview will also require svgpart as a depends now
[21:54] <yofel> doesn't in neon
[21:55] <yofel> could be a runtime dependency though. Or plugin
[21:55] <yofel> Plugin I guess
[21:57] <shadeslayer_> runtime dep imo
[21:58] <yofel> well, try to run it without it and you'll know ^^
[21:58] <shadeslayer_> heh :P
[21:58] <shadeslayer_>  or i could just remove the svgpart neon package from my install and run gwenview
[21:59] <shadeslayer_> ah well, it runs
[22:00] <shadeslayer_> yofel: i'll put it in Suggests then
[22:01] <yofel> k
[22:10] <shadeslayer_> yofel: question, why does konsole-dbg only suggest konsole? why not depend on konsole?
[22:10] <shadeslayer_> because i usually put suggests and i got dbg-package-missing-depends from lintian
[22:10] <yofel> ah, I just kept that from kdebase, since it's a single binary package now Depends would be right
[22:10] <yofel> fixing
[22:13] <shadeslayer_> plz2review : https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/gwenview/ubuntu
[22:14]  * shadeslayer_ goes on a break
[22:19] <apachelogger> sheytan_: it is on me facebook
[22:20]  * apachelogger arrived in graz once more
[22:20] <apachelogger> yofel, shadeslayer_: you should voice opinion on branch moving thread on ml
[22:20] <apachelogger> if we move we better do it now before creating the other 30 projects
[22:21] <ScottK> apachelogger: You saw I updated my opinion?
[22:21] <ScottK> I think I'm now up to "Fine, as long as I don't have to do it."
[22:21] <yofel> true... I don't care much about the links, but the projects are annoying
[22:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah
[22:21] <yofel> It does put our neon imports into the right place though
[22:21] <shadeslayer_> ^^
[22:21] <shadeslayer_> was about to say that
[22:22] <apachelogger> I do not care so much about the work you have to do :P
[22:22] <shadeslayer_> i'm actually quite fine with setting up a project
[22:22] <shadeslayer_> ( for each of the branches we create )
[22:22] <shadeslayer_> it's like 5 minutes of work ...
[22:23] <apachelogger> kde core has some 200 indivdual apps/libs
[22:23] <apachelogger> that is 200*5
[22:23] <apachelogger> nono I say
[22:24] <apachelogger> besides, it goes beyond the scope of core KDE
[22:24] <apachelogger> like any thing we track in bzr needs a project
[22:24] <apachelogger> extragear, playground you name it
[22:25] <shadeslayer_> but not all of those 200 apps/libs have their own git repos do they?
[22:25] <apachelogger> they will once the great migration plan is worked out
[22:25] <apachelogger> the long-term target is to have individual repos
[22:25] <shadeslayer_> even moar splitting? O_O
[22:25] <apachelogger> so we do 100 now and 100 more when 5.0 comes around
[22:26] <sheytan_> apachelogger what do you mean not you on facebook?
[22:26] <apachelogger> the narwhals are on the friendface
[22:26] <apachelogger> I postered them like ages ago
[22:27] <sheytan_> ah
[22:28] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: sure, its a bit more work .... but it will only benefit us in keeping things clean and organized more appropriately
[22:28] <yofel> well, in absence of strong arguments for all those project I'm fine with a kubuntu-packaging project
[22:28] <yofel> YOU do the moving though this time
[22:28] <yofel> scripting it would be a good idea...
[22:29] <yofel> it means we need to fix all Vcs links again though too
[22:29] <apachelogger> pyth0rn scripting
[22:29] <apachelogger> weehe
[22:29] <apachelogger> yofel: well, we are packaging right now, so... ;)
[22:29] <yofel> true
[22:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: how does it make things more clean or organized?
[22:30] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: everything is associated with their project pages?
[22:30] <shadeslayer_> *because everything ...
[22:30] <apachelogger> and the project page is bigtime mumbo jumbo because it is really just a pointless replica of the one on projects.kde.org
[22:32] <yofel> as I said, It makes some sense for us neon maintainers, for the others it's probably pointless
[22:33] <shadeslayer_> yep ^^
[22:33] <apachelogger> kubotu: roll a dice
[22:33] <shadeslayer_> ofcourse i'm biased
[22:33] <shadeslayer_> so don't heed my advice ^_^
[22:41] <apachelogger> Quintasan_: okular package is bogus, it misses a copy of FDL for the documentation
[22:42] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: you broke the ksnapshot table row
[22:42] <shadeslayer_> table what
[22:42] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: kate has no license copy whatsoever
[22:43] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: you mean there's no license in debian/copyright?
[22:44] <apachelogger> no
[22:44] <apachelogger> there i no complete copy of the license
[22:44] <apachelogger> in the source
[22:44] <shadeslayer_> upstream issue then, want me send them a email?
[22:44] <apachelogger> you have upstream commit access, no?
[22:44] <shadeslayer_> yep
[22:45] <apachelogger> fix it, repack the tarball with copies
[22:45] <apachelogger> upload new version
[22:45] <shadeslayer_> hmm ok
[22:45] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: oh wait, i can't commit
[22:45] <shadeslayer_> commit server is down for me
[22:45] <apachelogger> yofel: FWIW konsole also misses FDL copy
[22:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: whut?
[22:46] <apachelogger> ping git.kde.org
[22:46] <shadeslayer_> From so-2-0-0.0.ejr01.fra002.flagtel.com (<IP_ADDRESS>) icmp_seq=2 Time to live exceeded
[22:46] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: most of the kde sites are down for me because a router at hetzner is down
[22:47] <apachelogger> wrong ip
[22:47] <yofel> oh true, I forgot about the docs :(
[22:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: use a proper DNS
[22:47] <apachelogger> opendns for example
[22:47] <apachelogger> google dns also should be up-to-date
[22:47] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: i use google's dns
[22:47] <shadeslayer_> +server
[22:47] <apachelogger> so it is no up-to-date :P
[22:47] <apachelogger> use opendns
[22:47] <shadeslayer_> heh
[22:47] <shadeslayer_> alright
[22:47] <yofel> apachelogger: how do I fix that?
[22:47] <apachelogger> or edit yoru hosts file
[22:47] <apachelogger> <IP_ADDRESS> is the correct ip for git.kde.org
[22:48] <apachelogger> yofel: do you haz commit access?
[22:48] <yofel> yep
[22:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: gwenview also suffers from missing FDL
[22:48] <apachelogger> yofel: cp /usr/share/common-licenses/GFDL-1.2 COPYING.DOC
[22:49] <apachelogger> mind that you need to fix it in KDE/4.7 and then forward cherry pick to master
[22:49] <yofel> k, lemme check how you did it for ksnapshot
[22:49] <yofel> right, now I first need to read the docs again how one does that...
[22:49] <apachelogger> just open the docbook :P

[22:50] <apachelogger> ....
[22:50] <yofel> wth is GLGPL2 o.O
[22:50] <apachelogger> contains the authors
[22:50] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: i'm on a break right now, will fix laterz
[22:50] <apachelogger> yofel: in celebration of typoday
[22:50] <yofel> ah lol
[22:50] <shadeslayer_> hahaha
[22:50] <apachelogger> also mind that the authorgroup markup can contain other stuff than the actual authors
[22:50] <apachelogger> like reviewers for example
[22:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: oh for gwenview it is not actually a problem
[22:51] <apachelogger> the FDL notice is commented out there
[22:51] <apachelogger> agateau: your docs have no license my friend :P
[22:51] <shadeslayer_> bbiab
[22:53] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: the ip is fine
[22:53] <shadeslayer_> shadeslayer@yofel-thinkpad ~/packaging/ksnapshot-4.6.90 » ping git.kde.org
[22:53] <shadeslayer_> PING git.kde.org (<IP_ADDRESS>) 56(84) bytes of data.
[22:53] <shadeslayer_> 64
[22:54] <shadeslayer_> the router at the dc is borked
[22:54] <apachelogger> tracepath to the rescue
[22:54] <shadeslayer_> can't access quassel core, kde.org, projects.kde.org, edu.kde.org and other stuff
[22:54] <yofel> fun
[22:55] <apachelogger> all kaput
[22:55] <shadeslayer_> yeah, its been like that for 3 days
[22:55] <apachelogger> you should like call someone somewhere
[22:55] <yofel> make a tunnel through my server (note: I have no idea how to do that)
[22:55] <shadeslayer_> ^^ iirc you use ssh -D 5000
[22:55] <shadeslayer_> but idk what to do next :P
[22:56] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/88405
[22:56] <apachelogger> the google does
[22:56] <apachelogger> it is made out of knowledge
[22:58] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: do i need any special perms for this?
[22:58] <apachelogger> the google knows
[22:58] <apachelogger> it is made out of knowledge
[22:59] <shadeslayer_> nope, still out ...
[23:00] <shadeslayer_> obviously i'm doing it wrong :P
[23:02] <apachelogger> it happens
[23:02] <apachelogger> awoga
[23:03] <apachelogger> germinate be using the  old core-dev branch in the natty
[23:03] <apachelogger> silly beast
[23:04]  * yofel looks for that git thread in kde-core-devel
[23:04] <yofel> before I do something totally silly...
[23:07] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: would yofel  need to open up a port on his router as well?
[23:07] <yofel> apachelogger: ok, where do I fix that first? master or KDE/4.7
[23:07] <yofel> I have a few ports open, lemme look what range
[23:08] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: the google will know
[23:08] <apachelogger> it is made out of knowledge
[23:08] <apachelogger> yofel: branch then cherry-pick to master
[23:10] <apachelogger> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/553484
[23:10] <apachelogger> plz tell me opinions
[23:10] <yofel> shadeslayer_: 23301-23400 is forwareded, something in the middle of that should work
[23:10] <shadeslayer_> ok
[23:10] <yofel> typoday--
[23:10] <apachelogger> typoday++
[23:12] <yofel> k, I think I've gotten where in that docbook the licensing info is. It doesn't state the license though
[23:12] <shadeslayer_> Firefox is configured to use a proxy server that is refusing connections.
[23:13] <yofel> ah wait, FDL
[23:13] <yofel> now...
[23:13] <apachelogger> spam spam spam spam
[23:13] <apachelogger> spam
[23:13] <apachelogger> egg with bacon and spam
[23:14] <yofel> fried spam
[23:14] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: if nothing else deps on ooo draw ( except impress ) kick it off
[23:14] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: well, that cuts impress in half
[23:14] <apachelogger> I am not even sure it would be possible
[23:15] <shadeslayer_> huh
[23:15] <shadeslayer_> debug2: channel 12: pre_dynamic: have 0
[23:15] <apachelogger> i.e. it is a highly integrated part
[23:15] <shadeslayer_> dunno what that means
[23:15] <apachelogger> all the box drawing mumbo jumbo is done by draw I reckon
[23:15] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: kick both off the CD?
[23:15] <apachelogger> Oo
[23:15] <apachelogger> you propose we do not ship a presentation app by default?
[23:16] <apachelogger> what have you been smokin' :O
[23:16] <yofel> hard to make my mind up here, I used draw like... twice?
[23:16] <shadeslayer_> Google Docs++
[23:16] <shadeslayer_> move everything to the cloud :P
[23:16] <yofel> never used that yet ^^
[23:16] <shadeslayer_> ^^ never used OOo
[23:16] <yofel> heh
[23:17] <shadeslayer_> oh btw Kubuntu on the cloud would be fun
[23:17] <apachelogger> define
[23:17] <yofel> k, switched to branch KDE/4.7
[23:19] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: multiple kubuntu instances running on a Amazon EC2 machine
[23:19] <shadeslayer_> s/a/multiple/
[23:19] <kubotu> shadeslayer_ meant: "multiplepachelogger: multiple kubuntu instances running on a Amazon EC2 machine"
[23:19] <shadeslayer_> LOL ^^
[23:19] <apachelogger> you my dear friend do not know how to use sed
[23:19] <apachelogger> also
[23:19] <apachelogger> define
[23:20] <apachelogger> TBL's original WWW proposal was less vague than what you are talking about
[23:21] <yofel> I'll use your commit message
[23:22] <apachelogger> with the typo plz
[23:22] <yofel> I don't add any LGPL :P
[23:22] <apachelogger> that was no typo :P
[23:23] <yofel> oh wait, konsole HAS stuff under the LGPL...
[23:23] <yofel> heck, even MIT -.-
[23:24] <shadeslayer_> huh interesting, i can use : curl --socks5 localhost:23340 google.com
[23:24] <apachelogger> yofel: MIT is a copy by itself :P
[23:25] <yofel> yeah
[23:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: that is one way to operate the googlez
[23:25] <shadeslayer_> alright, i can curl sites
[23:25] <shadeslayer_> but firefox doesn't want to open them :P
[23:26] <apachelogger> firefail
[23:28] <yofel> gaah, your stupid typos are confusing me -.-
[23:28] <apachelogger> "A: My shoutcase is not working; B: Hit your capslock key"
[23:28] <apachelogger> it is one of me favorite quotes from randa
[23:28] <yofel> haha
[23:31] <shadeslayer_> \o/
[23:31] <shadeslayer_> i haz kde.org
[23:32] <yofel> write a wiki page on how you did it
[23:32] <yofel> or get me your shell log :P
[23:32] <apachelogger> blogz it
[23:32] <apachelogger> also
[23:32] <yofel> oh yeah, preferred method
[23:32] <apachelogger> it is rather boring news
[23:32] <apachelogger> I haz kde.org for years
[23:32] <yofel> lol
[23:35] <yofel> GLGPL2 makes you dizzy just trying to understand it...
[23:36] <apachelogger> gnu
[23:36] <apachelogger> lesser
[23:37] <apachelogger> general
[23:37] <apachelogger> public
[23:37] <apachelogger> license
[23:37] <apachelogger> two
[23:37] <apachelogger> [x] bug fixed
[23:37] <yofel> sure, it's still abbreviated by LGPL :P
[23:37] <apachelogger> not my fault that people cannot read :P
[23:37] <apachelogger> GPL2
[23:37] <apachelogger> gnu
[23:37] <apachelogger> general
[23:37] <apachelogger> public
[23:37] <apachelogger> license
[23:37] <apachelogger> two
[23:37] <apachelogger> [x] qed
[23:37] <yofel> I know, blame whoever did it...
[23:38] <apachelogger> I shall blame shadeslayer_
[23:38] <yofel> LOL
[23:38] <apachelogger> [x] blame distribution successful
[23:38] <yofel> ah well, people will at least know who got me to add the files...
[23:38] <apachelogger> righto
[23:39] <apachelogger> general question of interest: whatever happened to JontheEchidna
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> summer job
[23:39] <yofel> iirc he has a job now, and WAS there today for a minute
[23:39] <yofel> oh hey
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> o/
[23:39] <apachelogger> you are a poor soul JontheEchidna
[23:40] <yofel> apachelogger: ok, now I have: http://paste.kde.org/88441
[23:40] <yofel> in KDE/4.7 - push?
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> working on a 1.1.85 release for muon. Waiting on tarballs to propogate to the various KDE mirrors
[23:40] <apachelogger> yofel: yus
[23:40] <apachelogger> and master
[23:40] <apachelogger> dont forget the maters
[23:40] <yofel> adds COPYING.DOC and COPYING.LIB
[23:40] <apachelogger> or else
[23:40] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: heh typo
[23:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: talking about the muonz, do we put the manager on the CD?
[23:41] <apachelogger> also the updater has scary UI
[23:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: perhasp it was, perhusp it was not
[23:42] <shadeslayer_> heh :)
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> Since MSC doesn't do non-app packages, I think we should get muon on the CD. (It is currently on the CD in a provisional manner)
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> I'm also planning on a separate UI for the updater in 1.3. I have some notes in the todo in the source
[23:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: couldn't you add search based no-app capability to the MSC?
[23:43] <yofel> yay, first kde git commit ^^ http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=konsole.git&a=commit&h=f04e45f421c476d614550cc78401b3f34686102a
[23:43] <shadeslayer_> yofel++
[23:43] <yofel> now... how do you cherry pick again...
[23:43] <shadeslayer_> yofel: git cherry-pick <sha1>
[23:43] <shadeslayer_> ok bbiab
[23:43] <yofel> so, git checkout master -> git cherry-pick... ?
[23:43] <apachelogger> yus
[23:43] <yofel> k
[23:44] <apachelogger> as a matter of fact the short sha should be sufficient to cp
[23:44] <yofel> right
[23:44] <apachelogger> (and you should have the short sha in your terminal somewhere from the commits)
[23:44] <yofel> well, you can use any part of the sha as long as it's not bogus
[23:45] <shadeslayer> \o/
[23:45] <yofel> hey
[23:45] <shadeslayer> quassel core tunneled over SOCKS xD
[23:46] <yofel> http://commits.kde.org/konsole/c8903d90f6835e5bb9d17cec91ed051579f860a7
[23:46] <yofel> that wasn't as complicated as I feared...
[23:47] <apachelogger> yofel: are you in #kde-devel?
[23:47] <yofel> jus
[23:47] <apachelogger> tsdgeos will probably poke you about your funny spelling of LGPL then :P
[23:47] <shadeslayer> haha :P
[23:48] <yofel> sure, I'll blame you
[23:49] <yofel> that guy sure is persistent about negative kcalc behaviour...
[23:50] <yofel> k, now to fix konsole package...
[23:51] <shadeslayer> ok now i have no idea how to get a SOCKS proxy in a shell
[23:54] <yofel> uh...
[23:55] <yofel> shadeslayer: ksnapshot_4.6.90+repack.orig.tar.bz2 haz no COPYING files
[23:57] <apachelogger> I wonder if me bug report was too uglies
[23:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: great job there
[23:57] <apachelogger> s/bug report/bug comment/
[23:57] <kubotu> apachelogger: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[23:57] <apachelogger> oh
[23:57] <apachelogger> rightz
[23:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: where?
[23:57] <apachelogger> where what?
[23:57] <yofel> ksnapshot
[23:58] <apachelogger> snap
[23:58] <yofel> re-upload as repack2, this time WITH copyrights
 shadeslayer: great job there
[23:58] <shadeslayer> ^^ where?
[23:58] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: kaput ksnapshot tar
[23:59] <shadeslayer> oh derp
[23:59] <apachelogger> now the only way to get a new tar in is repack1
[23:59] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: sorry
[23:59] <shadeslayer> i should have realized that before i uploaded that ...
[23:59] <apachelogger> there is a reason I suffixed with +repack :P
[23:59] <apachelogger> though I probably did not mention why in the changelog


[03:16] <mscs> Hi there! I'm having an issue with my XPS13 and a thunderbolt docking station.  When I have an external display, keyboard, and mouse connected and I close the lid, my laptop suspends.
[03:16] <mscs> I've set HandleLidSwitchDocked=ignore in systemd, used dconf to edit the settings in gnome, all to no avail. Any idea what's up?
[03:17] <TJ-> mscs: anything in /var/log/syslog or /var/log/kern.log to indicate what is firing that off?
[03:18] <mscs> let me tail them and try
[03:18] <mscs> (I'm connected from a different host, so it should be ok)
[03:20] <mscs> ok. I've got the tail.
[03:22] <mscs> It's just sitting there, then on lid-close I see some kernel messages about preparing for sleep
[03:23] <mscs> doesn't look like there's anything about why. Would TLP cause it to do that?
[03:25] <TJ-> I've not played with artful but with all the changes it wouldn't surprise me if something has got lost amongst all the changes
[03:26] <TJ-> mscs: is this with the GUI desktop running? try shutting down the GUI and just having the tty console and see whether it still sleeps on lid close. That at least would narrow down where the event is being initiated
[03:26] <mscs> ooh, good idea
[03:26] <mscs> gimme a few, let me try
[03:45] <mscs> TJ-: short answer, seems like it's something Gnome is doing.
[03:54] <TJ-> mscs: I thought it may be
[03:54] <TJ-> probably due to the upheaval of dropping unity and moving to gnome
[03:59] <lotuspsychje> mscs: whats going on, im on artful testing?
[04:08] <mscs> lotuspsychje: well, I've got a Dell XPS 13 9360 plugged into a Dell TB16 dock.
[04:08] <mscs> I plug the laptop in over thunderbolt, the display, keyboard, and mouse all pick up fine and the laptop starts charging.
[04:08] <mscs> When I close the lid, rather than staying awake, the laptop suspends.
[04:09] <mscs> lid-close-suspend-external-monitor is false (the default), and (thanks to TJ-'s idea to test) I can tell that it doesn't happen when Gnome is stopped
[04:09] <lotuspsychje> mscs: power settings are set good?
[04:10] <mscs> as far as I can tell - they're all defaults, though I have TLP installed
[04:11] <mscs> I've got the latest bios from Dell, fully updated.
[04:12] <mscs> when we looked at syslog and kern.log the only thing we saw was the messages about the system getting ready to suspend, nothing that indicated what triggered it to do so
[04:12] <mscs> though... an update to upower just landed?
[04:13] <mscs> lol. That'd be funny. Let me try upgrading it real quick.
[04:19] <mscs> the plot thickens: it works fine in Xorg.
[04:29] <mscs> so upower update seems to have made it worse, not better. off to poke around for a bit
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> mscs: how you know your in wayland?
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> welcome azaki
[04:55] <azaki> oh, hi. =p
[04:56] <azaki> i'm just gonna copy/paste it from the other channel, because yeah..
[04:56] <azaki> has canonical announced what the upgrade plan looks like right now for 17.10 ? i mean i assume that both people on ubuntu-gnome and ubuntu-unity are going to both just be upgraded to the same gnome-based ubuntu desktop
[04:56] <azaki> but i'm wondering if there will be any weirdness as a result of the past differences between unity and gnome flavors
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> azaki: 17.10 is still in development atm
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> azaki: so upgrade is not recommended yet
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> azaki: 17.10 gonna have gnome by default indeed
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> azaki: 18.04 will have gnome by default for LTS
[05:03] <azaki> i don't mean upgrade now...
[05:03] <azaki> i'm just wondering how the process will work.
[05:03] <azaki> i assume the old "ubuntu gnome" flavor is being discontinued?
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> azaki: ubuntu-gnome will be automaticly upgraded to ubuntu-desktop, wich is gnome by default
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> azaki: same goes for unity
[05:05] <azaki> ok, thanks. that's more or less what i wanted to know
[05:06] <azaki> because i know that canonical has been working on getting certain extensions out of the box, like dash-to-dock and others. which aren't shipped by default on current ubuntu-gnome
[05:06] <azaki> so yeah. anyways. thank you =)
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> azaki: they forked 2 extensions by default already
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> azaki: dash to dock fork and knotify indicators
[05:17] <azaki> is gnome "classic mode" still going to be available out of the box?
[05:18] <lotuspsychje> i dont think so azaki
[05:18] <azaki> hm
[05:18] <lotuspsychje> azaki: but perhaps there might be a workaround
[05:19] <azaki> we're both talking about the same thing right? the classic mode that looks like gnome 2
[05:20] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[05:20] <lotuspsychje> default is gnome 3 right
[05:21] <azaki> yeah, the default gnome3 basically looks pretty plain, has no dock or window list.
[05:21] <azaki> and then there is the classic mode which looks like this: http://worldofgnome.org/uploads/2014/02/classic-312-desktop.png
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> !find classic
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> azaki: not sure of that mate, we will have to see in final release
[05:22] <krytarik> !info gnome-session-flashback
[05:24] <azaki> krytarik: oh, flashback is the classic mode session?
[05:26] <krytarik> Yep - https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeFlashback
[05:28] <lotuspsychje> tnx krytarik
[05:28] <krytarik> Sure.
[05:44] <lotuspsychje> azaki: you can also install 17.10 then wait until 18.04 LTS is out
[05:44] <lotuspsychje> to get used of new ubuntu
[05:45] <azaki> it's for a family member who is more used to the oldschool style of user interfaces
[05:45] <azaki> they are not familiar with "docks" or how they work.
[05:45] <azaki> =o
[05:46] <azaki> i suppose i could customize the extensions myself, but it's more convenient to just login using classic mode
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> azaki: you can enable/disable dock easy and make it look classic
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> just 2 addons by default
[05:48] <azaki> well, classic adds a window list also
[05:48] <azaki> and a all white theme to the ui
[05:48] <azaki> also adds the old "applications" and "places" menus in the upper bar
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> i know
[11:23] <RalphBa> hi all
[11:23] <RalphBa> I'm actually trying to install ubuntu 17.10 daily on an already encrypted usb drive. there is a huge btrfs and I tried to convince ubuntu installer to install on that btrfs without reformatting(took care there is no @ snapshot on it).
[11:23] <RalphBa>  I could configure installer, but it hangs at detecting filesystems
[11:23] <RalphBa> is there a way to even avoid partitioning configuration and directly mount /mnt for installation?
[11:24] <tomreyn> i don't think the installer supports installing into existing file systems. whats the use case?
[11:27] <ikonia> how would it know / be able to decyrpt the file system ?
[11:27] <RalphBa> I have a fully encrypted pen drive with a btrfs partition on it containing multiple subvolumes with multiple distros
[11:27] <ikonia> if it's already encypted like you say
[11:27] <RalphBa> it is
[11:27] <ikonia> how does it decrypt it ?
[11:27] <ikonia> how does it know the key ?
[11:27] <RalphBa> I would like the installer to install directly on a given subvolume and evene not to care about grub
[11:28] <ikonia> there is an option not to install grub
[11:28] <ikonia> but that sort of will fail due to the package hooks for the kernel packages
[11:28] <ikonia> as that will trigger hooks for grub
[11:28] <RalphBa> thats the thing, thats everything working. I just need the installer to do its thing on a subvolume and configure the system itself but ignoring the rest
[11:29] <ikonia> I'm curious to how it's decrypted the encypted disk for the install ?
[11:29] <ikonia> there are no prompts to enter a key, so how do you tell it where the key is to decyrpt ?
[11:29] <RalphBa> by already executing cryptsetup on console
[11:29] <ikonia> so you are manually decrypting the volume ?
[11:29] <ikonia> then starting the installer
[11:29] <RalphBa> I prepare everything, after doing cryptsetup you can select partition inside in installer
[11:30] <RalphBa> but the detecting filesystem step at installation itself hangs
[11:30] <RalphBa> so I would prefer to mount manually a subvolume as /mnt so installer ca do its stuff without caring about the rest
[11:30] <ikonia> how would it work post install, as the installer would not have setup al the cyrpt stuff, so it wouldn't know how to decrypt at boot time
[11:30] <ikonia> you can't install to /mnt target though
[11:31] <ikonia> it wants a device, not a file system
[11:32] <RalphBa> the actual ubuntu 17.04 on that usb drive is copied over from an unencrypted installation. there wasn't anything to do, everything is done by grub which is maintained by an arch installation
[11:32] <RalphBa> it passes everything as kernel arguments
[11:32] <ikonia> this sounds like pretty much non-existant use case
[11:32] <ikonia> right, so the OS doesn't need to care about the encyption
[11:33] <RalphBa> it is the use case, that ubuntu is not capable of full disk encryption (even kernel is encrypted, there is a grub hook in arch for letting grub decrypt)
[11:34] <RalphBa> so grub loads the kernel from the encrypted drive
[11:34] <ikonia> I thought it can handle FDE just fine
[11:34] <RalphBa> ?
[11:34] <RalphBa> when I tried last time with ubuntu there was still this "kernel has to be unencrypted" thing
[11:35] <RalphBa> also its kind of special setup, I avoid lvm
[11:35] <ikonia> depends on the encyption method, I'm sure it's been FDE ready since 14.04
[11:35] <ikonia> maybe earlier
[11:35] <RalphBa> just one huge btrfs
[11:36] <ikonia> the file system doesn't matter
[11:36] <RalphBa> otherwise abstraction costs performance
[11:36] <ikonia> it's disk encryption
[11:36] <ikonia> not file system encyption
[11:36] <RalphBa> yes, but ubuntu wants to setup an lvm volume for its stuff
[11:36] <RalphBa> inside the container
[11:37] <ikonia> ubuntu uses an LVM volume for one method and in the standard file system layout
[11:37] <RalphBa> well however, is it possible to just pass an already mounted /mnt to installer and skip the whole fs stuff?
[11:37] <ikonia> maybe I need to look at the current installer and see what it's capable of
[11:37] <ikonia> RalphBa: no, it won't install to /mnt/$something
[11:37] <ikonia> it wants a device not a file system
[11:38] <RalphBa> is there a bootstrapping way?
[11:38] <ikonia> the old debootstrap guide maybe useful to adapt ?
[11:38] <RalphBa> hmm...
[11:39] <ikonia> but again you're creating a usecase / situation that it's not really designed for or desired by anyone other than you (that I've ever seen)
[11:39] <ikonia> you'll be on thin ice with it
[11:40] <RalphBa> I have no problem with fixing adapting an installed linux, just with making it installing in that case
[11:40] <RalphBa> when its there, I take care about the rest
[11:42] <RalphBa> how said, I already copied a 17.04 over and made it working well using that setup
[11:47] <tomreyn> this surely sounds like a debootstrap use case, if any.
[11:48] <RalphBa> ... I think it would be a nice thing if ubuntu once supports also a pro installation like arch.
[11:50] <RalphBa> well for now I have to do again what I didn't want to. install it first somewhere else and then copying it over :(
[11:55] <tomreyn> some call it pro, others call it finicky
[11:55] <RalphBa> and thats fun, aside of getting things more or less exactly how you want
[11:56] <RalphBa> and aside of learning a lot
[12:03] <RalphBa> ikonia, because of FDE. I actually try it on an empty drive and get the message, that the root partition on an encrypted drive needs a separate boot partition. so it does not support fde vie grub crypt feature
[12:03] <RalphBa> so yes, the usecase is pretty obvious when you want to avoid evil maid attacks
[12:04] <ikonia> docs show it supporting FDE
[12:04] <RalphBa> how?
[12:04] <RalphBa> encrypting a drive and installing / in that encrypted container is not doing the thing
[12:05] <RalphBa> i fear here fde means not using ecryptfs
[12:05] <ikonia> have a look at the docs, I've not got a test box at hand to start the installer
[12:05] <tomreyn> ecryptfs is file system encryption, so not FDE
[12:06] <RalphBa> yes, and I fear with FDE they mean encrypting root instead of only ecryptfs but not encrypting also boot
[12:06] <RalphBa> but I mean FDE up to the last byte including the kernel
[12:07] <RalphBa> ok, up to the last bytes - grub
[12:10] <RalphBa> that first time I saw with a loot of frickeling around in arch linux
[12:10] <tomreyn> what the installer creates when you select the FDE option is an unencrypted /boot partition with kernel + initrd, the rest encrypted.
[12:10] <RalphBa> gladly its just a lot of frickling around with grub and do not really affect the kernel itself
[12:11] <RalphBa> tomreyn, unencrypted kernel = invitation for evil maid
[12:12] <tomreyn> i'm aware. and there's no way around evil maid unless you trust your firmware + hardware.
[12:12] <RalphBa> and how said, grub in the meantime is able to load the kernel from the luks container
[12:12] <tomreyn> do you?
[12:12] <tomreyn> doesn't matter if the firmware is compromised
[12:12] <RalphBa> well, better than having an exposed kernel :D
[12:13] <tomreyn> you can encrypt that in a second step if you want to, there are guides on it on the web, others have done it before.
[12:13] <RalphBa> for sure also thats not 100% but by avoiding an efi boot due to the lack of space in mbr its at least making evil maid pretty hard
[12:14] <tomreyn> i'm not convinced
[12:16] <ikonia> couldn't you just boot a kernel from a usb if you encypted the kernel to get around the "security" that an encypted kernel gives you ?
[12:16] <RalphBa> ikonia, the whole thing is an usb drive
[12:17] <ikonia> what whole thing ?
[12:17] <RalphBa> the installation will run on an usb drive. I have kind of workenv on a stick
[12:17] <ikonia> thats not what I meant
[12:17] <ikonia> I meant you're trying to protect your kernel by encypting it at boot time
[12:18] <ikonia> but couldn't you just boot a kernal from an external source to get around that "security" option
[12:18] <ikonia> I'm not seeing the value of encypting the kernel before boot
[12:18] <RalphBa> sure you could, but you'd still need the password
[12:18] <ikonia> ok ?
[12:18] <RalphBa> which only me knows, and I will for sure not boot from another kernel
[12:19] <ikonia> what are you protecting against then ?
[12:19] <RalphBa> but only from one decrypted by grub
[12:19] <ikonia> so really you don't care about the kernel
[12:19] <ikonia> you're trying to protect the FDE encyption password held in the grub config on /boot ?
[12:20] <RalphBa> it is not held in grub config...
[12:20] <ikonia> then what are you trying to protect ?
[12:20] <RalphBa> I actually enter the password twice, one time for grub so it can load the kernel and one time for the kernel so it can decrypt root
[12:20] <ikonia> but what are you trying to protect by encypting /boot ?
[12:21] <RalphBa> so grub loaded from mbr, decrypts the kernel and the kernel decrypts root
[12:21] <ikonia> but what are you trying to protect by encypting /boot ?
[12:21] <RalphBa> So there is a decrypted chain except grub itself which is simply very small and because of the lack of space hard to compromise
[12:21] <ikonia> but what are you trying to protect by encypting /boot ?
[12:22] <RalphBa> the system I try to protect
[12:22] <ikonia> how ?
[12:22] <RalphBa> you know evil maid?
[12:22] <ikonia> what value is encypting /boot
[12:22] <ikonia> yes, I'm aware
[12:22] <RalphBa> evail maid is an attack where you modify the unencrypted kernel to get the password when its entered by the user
[12:23] <ikonia> but it's binary
[12:23] <ikonia> you're going to hack a copiled binary (realistically)
[12:23] <RalphBa> to avoid the modification of the kernel, you put it inside the encrypted container
[12:23] <RalphBa> ikonia, nah, you simply replace it
[12:24] <ikonia> so you're going to replace the whole kernel and bootloader ? setup,
[12:24] <RalphBa> when you want to do this attack, yes you simply replace it on unencrypted boot partition
[12:24] <RalphBa> thats why I want it to be inside the encrypted container
[12:25] <ikonia> how are you going to protect against keyloggers built into the keyboard ?
[12:25] <RalphBa> so it cannot be replaced
[12:25] <ikonia> or built into the firmware ?
[12:25] <RalphBa> for sure the security has limits, but a keylogger in my keyboard is something else than grabbing that stick when I'm not looking at
[12:26] <ikonia> whateer you feel is appropriate I guess
[12:26] <RalphBa> how said, the whole system is on a stick which is always with me. but I can't ensure that it is observed all the time
[12:27] <RalphBa> If I'd be an attacker, I'd take it and replace the kernel with a compromised one... If its unencrypted
[12:27] <ikonia> I'd swap out your keyboard connector
[12:28] <ikonia> easier quicker and less noticable than steeling your stick
[12:30] <tomreyn> well, that's a bit like comparing apples with oranges. yes, the entire system, both all hardware and software components (firmware, too) need to be secure to create a secure workstation. but to get there, one needs to start somewhere.
[12:31] <ikonia> unless you're in a serious data situation, I just feel it's overkill and creating a problem that you'll make an engineering mess trying to solve
[12:31] <tomreyn> so just because one component is not easily secured i would still appreciate ubuntu enabling all users to encrypt /boot and thus the kernel easily.
[12:31] <ikonia> as this discussion shows
[12:32] <ikonia> tomreyn: if it was possible easy and clean, it would be great
[12:32] <tomreyn> that's a legitimate POV, i agree.
[12:32] <RalphBa> ikonia, you'd need to enter my flat... even twice
[12:33] <ikonia> right, so why are you going to this level
[12:33] <ikonia> if your location is protected why make this engineering mess
[12:34] <RalphBa> ikonia, the system is on a usb drive which is always with me, so not at home
[12:34] <RalphBa> and also not at company, but sometimes also in a bar
[12:34] <RalphBa> or disco, or restaurant
[12:34] <ikonia> are you not creating a problem then
[12:35] <ikonia> carrying around a USB stick on with your "secure" data on ?
[12:35] <RalphBa> I have multiple places to work with
[12:35] <ikonia> actually - ignore me, this isn't really on topic, I think the short answer is "the installer is currently not capable of meeting your use case"
[12:36] <RalphBa> that... I already got
[12:36] <RalphBa> and the thing with the clean way, there is since it is no problem in arch and works like a charm.
[12:37] <RalphBa> grub already has this feature, I do not understand why ubuntu is not using it
[12:37] <ikonia> why don't you raise a bug report asking for clarification why the feature is not available and document the arch use case as an example
[12:38] <RalphBa> I could do that. and propably will
[12:39] <ikonia> seems like that would add some value
[12:39] <tomreyn> please also read the *lengthy* discussions amongst grub developers befroe they intriduced the feature
[12:39] <ikonia> tomreyn: really, is there interesting background to this ?
[12:45] <tomreyn> i remember no details but that it was a long discussion, one of those with a potential to MAKE AN os DEVELOPMENT TEAM SPLIT UP.
[12:45] <tomreyn> whoops caps
[12:45] <ikonia> so clearly something serious in discussion there
[12:46] <tomreyn> also, it'd be good to read up on how rutkowska + team have implemented their workaround in qubes OS
[12:46] <RalphBa> ... ikonia do you think I'm speaking about nonexistent stuff?
[12:47] <RalphBa> that system is working for long time with arch and even with ubuntu 17.04 which I copied over from an unencrypted install
[12:47] <RalphBa> What I have to do again... thats the point
[12:48] <tomreyn> the fact that an implementation exists in another linux distribution doesn't automatically mean it's a robust implementation.
[12:48] <RalphBa> for me its actually working without problems
[12:49] <RalphBa> and without anything beeing decrypted... except grub itself
[12:49] <tomreyn> robust as in both reliably working and well hardened
[12:50] <RalphBa> as we know from linux in general, first it works then it gets hardened... but first someone has to work with
[12:51] <ikonia> RalphBa: I don't think it's non-existant, I think it's got to be balanced more, more so when you are partially creating the problem
[12:51] <ikonia> "copied over" is not an "install"
[12:51] <RalphBa> I'm aware, that it might not be as expected, but its better than the alternatives... from unencrypted linux kernel to (god beware) bitlocker
[12:52] <ikonia> you mock bitlocker - yet it's widely used in enterprises
[12:52] <RalphBa> I know, and I know that its a pain in the as and not that secure you'd expect
[12:52] <ikonia> there are also products that can be put on the disk to encypt the disk (eg: sophos) that meet your requirement
[12:53] <ikonia> if you where serious about this you'd look at this sort of stuff, it feels like you're engineering a problem
[12:54] <RalphBa> it seems like I do this at home with low budget and not at company
[12:54] <ikonia> but you just said this is for work
[12:54] <ikonia> as you work in multiple places
[12:54] <ikonia> and if this for home - then how secure does it "really" need to be
[12:54] <RalphBa> work is not always paid ;)
[12:54] <ikonia> no-one said it was
[12:55] <ikonia> thats why I said it feels like you're engineering a problem more than it needs to be
[12:55] <RalphBa> so as many I have two lives. one where I work for... money and one where I work for something useful
[12:55] <ikonia> and I admire people giving their time for a good cause
[12:55] <ikonia> but that doesn't really change the situation
[12:56] <RalphBa> The situation is simple, I do some critical stuff which I want to protect as good as I can within my limits and meeting my requirements
[12:56] <ikonia> if it was critical you wouldn't be taking it to a diso
[12:56] <ikonia> disco
[12:57] <ikonia> if it was critical you'd look at some other comercial products to help you cause rather than an engineering mess
[12:57] <RalphBa> Yes, it might be no usual case but it is mine. And it were always a strength of linux to support individualism. Otherwise I could use windows
[12:57] <RalphBa> It is on my keyring :D
[12:57] <ikonia> right, but it's not up to a distro to cater for your one in a million use case
[12:58] <RalphBa> no, it is not up to a distro to do that, but it would be fine if the distro respects individualism and provides hook ups where you can do something else than default
[12:58] <ikonia> it does respect individualism
[12:58] <ikonia> could you show me how ubuntu is not catering for individualism
[12:58] <RalphBa> this kind obviously not :D
[12:59] <ikonia> no, it's not
[12:59] <ikonia> or I wouldn't ask
[12:59] <RalphBa> ubuntu is perfect when installed. but I asked for nothing more than a way to do parts of what installer is doing myself
[13:00] <ikonia> so you can do that
[13:00] <RalphBa> And that is even not bound to my special use case
[13:00] <ikonia> you can interact outside the installer, or you an patch the installer to do as you want
[13:00] <ikonia> that is bound to your usecase
[13:01] <RalphBa> no, there is another usecase installer does not allow
[13:01] <ikonia> it would be helpful to understand why ubuntu hasn't enabled the option you desire in the instaler
[13:01] <ikonia> insaller
[13:01] <ikonia> RalphBa: the installer will not cater for every usecase,
[13:01] <RalphBa> makeing a one btrfs system where home is an own subvolume...
[13:01] <RalphBa> not possible
[13:01] <ikonia> so raise a bug/feature request for this, see if it is taken onboard
[13:01] <RalphBa> at installation... afterwards yes
[13:02] <ikonia> if there is a big need for this I'm sure people would invest engineering time
[13:02] <RalphBa> well, don't see the point of filing 100 bugs for saying, make the installer modular with the possibility to skip steps
[13:02] <ikonia> it's not 100 bugs
[13:02] <ikonia> it's 1
[13:03] <ikonia> install home onto btrfs subvolume
[13:03] <RalphBa> why not "let me do as I please and just do what I want"?
[13:04] <RalphBa> but ok, this is religion, makes no sense
[13:04] <ikonia> because that would rquire engineering work to make every component overridable
[13:04] <ikonia> that pretty much no-one wants
[13:04] <RalphBa> I have to leave for 20 minutes, after we can continue if there is need for
[13:04] <ikonia> and they would have to start applying crazy logic tracking, eg: if steps 1 + 2 skipped, valildate what was done outside the installer, before moving to step 3
[13:04] <ikonia> I don't think there is need
[13:04] <ikonia> you have a choice, raise a bug / feature request
[13:04] <ikonia> or don't
[15:24] <RalphBa> ikonia, its done. installed to unencrypted disk, copied it over, adapted fstab and crypttab, apt install cryptsetup, update-initramfs -u and everything works like a charm
[15:26] <RalphBa> gladly there is already enough stuff in the fs so the plain install cannot be used for pattern attack
[15:38] <ikonia> clearly everything doesn't work like a charm as you've had to do an excessive manual hack
[16:00] <adrian_1908> Hey, anyone having no sound in Flash under Firefox 56b ?
[16:00] <RalphBa> forget flash, its dead
[16:00] <RalphBa> oficially dead
[16:01] <RalphBa> I even wonder how you got it installed
[16:02] <adrian_1908> RalphBa: I can't, the content is flash. I share your sentiment otherwise. It worked for years before, this is a new issue for me.
[16:02] <RalphBa> how said, flash is declared dead by adobe
[16:03] <RalphBa> so you might get it installed/working but its nothing you should do
[16:05] <RalphBa> Given this progress, and in collaboration with several of our technology partners – including Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft and Mozilla – Adobe is planning to end-of-life Flash. Specifically, we will stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020 and encourage content creators to migrate any existing Flash content to these new open formats.
[16:06] <RalphBa> many browser distributors already stopped supporting flash
[16:06] <adrian_1908> Yeah yeah, I know all about that – that's not why I came here.
[16:06] <RalphBa> why you came here is because flash in firefox? is firefox still supporting it?
[16:08] <adrian_1908> Well it's certainly still possible to use it, I don't know about support by Mozilla.
[16:09] <RalphBa> ralph@ralph ~ % sudo apt install adobe-flash
[16:09] <RalphBa> completing package
[16:09] <RalphBa> adobe-flashplugin           adobe-flash-properties-kde
[16:09] <RalphBa> adobe-flash-properties-gtk
[16:09] <RalphBa> it seems to be still in partner repos
[16:12] <RalphBa> but no, sound is not working for me
[16:18] <brainwash> try with google chrome
[16:26] <nocco> I saw someone hade the option to log in using wayland instead of xorg. I didn't seem to have that option, is is something that i have to turn on?
[16:27] <brainwash> nocco: I assume it's not available when you install closed source GPU drivers
[16:27] <brainwash> nocco: is that the case?
[16:28] <ikonia> wayland is still having a problem with nvidia
[16:28] <nocco> okej :(
[16:28] <ikonia> I'm running wayland on the greeter (only) with intel
[16:29] <nocco> brainwash:  yes I have installed closed source gpu drivers
[16:31] <brainwash> you can still make it work though
[16:32] <nocco> Is there any open sourced option  for nvidia that I can use?
[16:32] <nocco> how ?
[16:32] <brainwash> bug 1697882
[16:34] <brainwash> 1) enabled KMS via nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
[16:34] <brainwash> 2) sudo update-initramfs -u
[16:34] <brainwash> basically that
[16:34] <nocco> thanks!
[16:36] <nocco> Will games work better or worse in wayland? (Sorry now really sure what wayland is giving me when it lands in my hands.. )
[16:37] <brainwash> I assume that most run directly via opengl, so there shouldn't be a big performance hit
[16:39] <nocco> okej :(
[16:39] <brainwash> but running games through xwayland (mainly windows games using wine) will drag the performance down
[16:40] <brainwash> well, I'll have to search for some benchmarks I guess
[16:41] <brainwash> input could be an potential issue also
[16:41] <brainwash> performance wise it's best to stick to Xorg
[16:42] <brainwash> at least in 2017 :P
[16:42] <nocco> alright :P
[16:43] <nocco> What will wayland give me as a regular ubuntu user?
[16:44] <ducasse> nocco: several people have reported games lagging under the gnome wayland session
[16:45] <nocco> alright