[14:14] <bcurtiswx> good morn'
[15:33] <bcurtiswx> maco, you around?
[15:33] <maco> bcurtiswx: yes
[15:33] <bcurtiswx> maco, care to assist/help/whatever for a UDW class dealing with bugs, nigelb suggested upstreaming
[15:34] <maco> not really
[15:34] <bcurtiswx> maco, kk
[15:34] <maco> upstreaming is such a weird topic, because "just put it on upstream's bugtracker too!" is what everybody gets told, and it's not even right
[15:35] <maco> kernel bug trackers seem to be there just to make users feel good about the fact someone else has the bug too
[15:38] <bcurtiswx> care to elaborate.. you think upstreaming has flaws?
[15:39] <maco> i think there's no way you can have random people just going out and sending bugs every which way and have anything good come of up
[15:39] <maco> s/up/it/
[15:40] <maco> SOME upstreams use bugtrackers. SOME upstreams use mailing lists and have a bugtracker just for appearances that they NEVER EVER read
[15:40] <maco> SOME upstreams get really damn pissed off if they get distro bugs reported to them
[15:41] <maco> you can't just be like "oh yeah every bug should be linked to an upstream bugtracker that's not even being read and you haven't personally read the code to make sure it's not one of our patches doing it"
[15:42] <maco> if you're going to upstream bugs, as an individual you need to know upstream's processes and know how to open up a package and see whether debian or ubuntu has made any changes to the code
[15:44] <bcurtiswx> all very valid points
[15:45] <maco> (i also agree with cjwatson that "everybody just triage!" is a stupid system. triaging requires in-depth knowledge of how the pieces fit together. step one: recompile in debug mode. step two: run from terminal and trace execution to failure point. step three: repeat within gdb...)
[15:49] <bcurtiswx> well, on the other hand we'd have no triagers for the system if they all had to have that type of knowledge
[15:50] <maco> but the few we'd have would actually be useful
[15:51] <maco> learning to compile isn't that hard
[15:51] <bcurtiswx> yes, but we'd never be able to keep up with the incoming bug reports
[15:51] <maco> as if we do anyway
[15:51] <bcurtiswx> the difference in your case would be drastically different though
[15:52] <maco> all that happens now is bugs get lots of churn and no useful action
[15:52] <maco> so for a while the reporter feels fuzzy that someone is talking to them
[15:52] <maco> and then just gets annoyed that the only thing happening is "does it still exist? *incomplete*"
[15:52] <maco> and finally they stop reporting bugs
[15:53] <maco> because its not like theyre going to get fixed, they're just going to keep getting either "me too!" comments or "is it fixed yet?" 'triager info requests'
[15:53] <bcurtiswx> so, how does it getting little to no attention make that any better?
[15:53] <maco> at least its not lying about whether anyone's going to do anything about the bug
[15:53] <maco> and at least bugs aren't constantly disappearing off the radars of the people who can fix them by being marked "incomplete" over and over
[15:53] <eridu> being aware of a problem doesn't imply being aware of a solution
[15:59] <bcurtiswx> the only reason they should be going incomplete is when more information is required, so even if it falls off radars its not really doing any good being on them if they don't have the right info to begin with
[16:00] <maco> except people mark stuff incomplete if they dont answer "yes the thing still exists. of course it does. LOOK AT THE LACK OF PATCHES!!!!" every 6 months
[16:00] <maco> because triagers who aren't developers don't even know what the hell "enough information" means
[16:00] <maco> on software i haven't personally patched i dont know what that means
[16:01] <maco> bugs that have enough information stay perpetually in incomplete state never moving to triaged because the triagers are too clueless to know when to move it to triaged
[16:01] <maco> that's not useful
[16:03] <bcurtiswx> I agree, it would be very beneficial to have triagers who knew whether a problem was a config issue, or for example emapthy crashes, but its webkit issues.  How can you win-win though?
[16:04] <maco> stop pretending triaging is what new people should do
[16:04] <bcurtiswx> make the requirements of bug control greater, give bug-squad less permissions?
[16:05] <bcurtiswx> how do you get people to a level in bug triage tho?  they have to start somewhere
[16:05] <maco> testing patches requires far less knowledge than triaging does
[16:06] <bcurtiswx> yeah, thats more of a textbook-reference type knowledge, but how does that transition to better triage?
[16:06] <bcurtiswx> in order for me to get better at packaging, i annoy the hell out of people and they all PROBABLY hate me, but im learning? i don't think it's the best way to do so by any means
[16:07] <maco> because once you learn how to throw a patch at a package to test it, you'll have learned how the source packages work well enough to at least get the "did ubuntu/debian make any changes to this?" part
[16:07] <maco> given there are several thousand proposed fixes for existing bugs that are being ignored, i think itd be a hell of a lot more useful to have the masses testing those fixes than going in circles on the other bugs
[16:10] <bcurtiswx> have you blogged about this before?
[16:12] <maco> i dont know
[16:12] <maco> ive probably blogged about the patch testing stuff
[16:12] <maco> if i didnt im sure nigel did at least 25 times
[16:12] <maco> and jono
[16:12] <maco> because thats the point of the Patch Review team
[16:12] <maco> and Operation Cleansweep
[16:13] <maco> to deal with the 2000+ patches that are bitrotting on launchpad and have been for years
[16:13] <bcurtiswx> so in your opinion, bug squad is really a poison to the system ?
[16:14] <maco> i dont think ive ever met anyone who was happy with the job bug squad was doing
[16:15] <maco> "why do they keep asking me whether its fixed when they havent fixed it themselves?" is the most frequently asked question i get about ubuntu's bug processes
[16:15] <maco> (generally followed by something about Debian handling it better)
[16:16] <bcurtiswx> what is debians system?  its a big pet peeve of mine when upstream says fix it yourself, when the main idea of bug reports is making sure its filed because you don't know how to fix it
[16:17] <bcurtiswx> but on the fixers side, i know that it doesn't help to beg and beg for things to be fixed
[16:20] <bcurtiswx> if debian handles it better, i'd love to know how, so i can see what differences there are
[16:26] <bcurtiswx> maco, on a different note:  Tamarah's taking a visualization class (OpenGL, C) and this requires her to be active on Linux.  She currently owns a laptop that overheats with Ubuntu on it, and her having a laptop would be most beneficial.  It wouldn't be doing any of the work, just the ability to web browse and ssh to other machines would be best.. what's her cheapest option?
[16:26] <maco> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/22/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t15:42
[16:27] <maco> she can borrow one of my kubuntu laptops
[16:28] <maco> i like this one:
 or edit the response on the wiki page to have something like "[Edit this to say what you tried to do to reproduce the problem.  Dear reporter: if this sentence is in the message you retrieve, then feel free to ignore this message as the bug triager wasn't paying attention.]"
[16:29] <bcurtiswx> i love it when those pop up
[16:29] <bcurtiswx> i also love what happened in -bugs just now.. someone replying to ubot
[16:30] <bcurtiswx> maco, is there a cheap option purchase-wise?
[16:30] <bcurtiswx> i may take you up on your offer, just weighing options
[16:31] <maco> the system76 starling netbook is $385
[16:32] <maco> actually i think the dell netbook is 299
[16:32] <bcurtiswx> zareasons above those i assume
[16:35] <maco> yes
[16:35] <maco> $449
[16:41] <bcurtiswx> im reading that log, interesting how bdmurray never jumped in on that
[16:43] <bcurtiswx> well lunch break, ttyl.  good discussion.
[18:44] <bcurtiswx> maco, do you know if there was anything discussed past that log about changing triage permissions/workflow etc..?
[18:45] <maco> no i dont
[18:45] <maco> its not the first time ive seen cjwatson or ScottK get upset about this stuff
[18:45] <maco> actualy...
[18:45] <maco> there was discussion on a mailing list, probably ubuntu-devel, when bug expiry was re-enabled
[18:45] <bcurtiswx> I don't blame them though
[18:45] <maco> which i think was also what triggered that conversation that time


[05:30]  * nlsthzn waves
[11:02] <Tonberry> damn kiddies trying to claim my nickname
[11:03] <nlsthzn> :)
[11:04] <Tonberry> had to remember how to ghost someone
[11:19] <nlsthzn> What are the requirements to have your blog appended to the planet food on ubuntu-za.org?
[11:22] <superfly> nlsthzn: you need to be a member of the Ubuntu-ZA team on Launchpad, which means you need to have agreed to the Ubuntu code of conduct
[11:23] <nlsthzn> superfly: ah cool... I did agree to it once... but I think I was under another user name :p haven't bothered to get PGP set up yet
[11:26] <superfly> nlsthzn: once you've done all of that, gimme your blog RSS feed
[11:26] <superfly> and make sure your RSS feed has full posts
[11:27] <nlsthzn> superfly: I don't know if the blog has a RSS feed to be honest (using wordpress)... and I don't think there is much there worth sharing with -za ... but maybe one day :)
[11:27] <nlsthzn> Was just curious
[11:27] <nlsthzn> Thanks for the assistance :)
[11:54] <nlsthzn> Looking at this it doesn't seem that the RSS feed has full posts either - http://nlsthzn.wordpress.com/feed/ ...
[11:56] <superfly> nlsthzn: don't you have a section where you can configure your feeds?
[11:56] <nlsthzn> superfly: not as far as I can see... I added a link to the feed to the blog just so I could get to see the link I posted :p
[12:00] <nlsthzn> superfly: found one setting: "For each article in a feed, show : " and it is set to full... and not summary.. so I suspect it is set up to show full posts
[12:01] <superfly> nlsthzn: where did you find that?
[12:01] <nlsthzn> superfly: Reading Settings
[14:23] <scar[w]> yay XWayland is out and a "driver" for it (xf86-video-wlshm).
[15:45] <nlsthzn> One more day passed...  now to go be lazy at home :p
[16:38]  * scar[w] waves
[16:43]  * drubin waves back
[18:25] <Kilos> good evening everyone
[18:25]  * Kilos waves to nlsthzn
[18:26] <Kilos> just a quick visit. stretching data a long long way
[18:26] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:26]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[18:26] <queery> Maaz, coffee please
[18:26] <Maaz> queery: Sure
[18:27] <Kilos> hiya queery
[18:27] <queery> hi oom Kilos
[18:27] <Kilos> we freezing here in P town
[18:29] <queery> CT is real cold hey
[18:29] <marcog> queery: i hear it's far colder in jhb
[18:30] <marcog> Maaz: weather in jhb
[18:30] <Maaz> marcog: In Johannesburg, South Africa at 7:30 PM SAST on June 24, 2011: 4°C; Humidity: 42%; Wind: SW at 18 km/h; Conditions: Clear; Sunrise/set: 6:54 AM SAST/5:24 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 12:32 AM SAST/12:17 PM SAST
[18:30] <queery> prob
[18:30] <marcog> Maaz: weather in pretoria
[18:30] <Maaz> marcog: That didn't seem to agree with me
[18:30] <Kilos> joburg is -2 tonight
[18:30] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and queery!
[18:30] <marcog> Maaz: weather in cpt
[18:30] <queery> F*K
[18:30] <Maaz> marcog: In Cape Town, South Africa at 7:00 PM SAST on June 24, 2011: 14°C; Humidity: 67%; Wind: West at 11 km/h; Conditions: Scattered Clouds; Sunrise/set: 7:51 AM SAST/5:44 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 1:18 AM SAST/12:49 PM SAST
[18:30] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[18:30] <Maaz> Enjoy Kilos
[18:30] <marcog> 14 vs 4, CT wins :D
[18:30] <queery> still
[18:31] <queery> its cold
[18:31] <marcog> ya it is
[18:31] <marcog> stellies is 12.4
[18:31] <queery> Maaz, weather stellenbosch
[18:31] <Maaz> queery: In Cape Town, South Africa at 7:00 PM SAST on June 24, 2011: 14°C; Humidity: 67%; Wind: West at 11 km/h; Conditions: Scattered Clouds; Sunrise/set: 7:50 AM SAST/5:43 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 1:17 AM SAST/12:48 PM SAST
[18:31] <queery> haha
[18:31] <queery> ok
[18:31] <marcog> queery: that looks at CT
[18:31] <marcog> it's a wund bug
[18:32] <Kilos> looks like the fly didnt get his motherboard back
[18:33] <Kilos> hi scar[w]  first time i seen ya here
[18:33] <queery> : In Stellenbosch, 1 minute ago: Temperature: 12.3C; HI: 12.1; Rainfall: 5mm; Conditions: Mostly clear with little temperature change.
[18:33] <Kilos> lo superfly
[18:33] <superfly> Hi kilos
[18:33] <superfly> No, not yet
[18:34] <Kilos> you got your mb superfly
[18:34] <Kilos> eish
[18:34]  * superfly wonders how Kilos knew he'd just logged in
[18:34] <Kilos> that sucks
[18:34] <Kilos> lol
[18:35]  * Kilos saw your nick not grayed out anymore
[18:35] <Kilos> xchat works for me
[18:35] <superfly> Ah... Clever :-)
[18:37] <superfly> Kilos: they've ordered a replacement, and are waiting for it
[18:37] <Kilos> where from superfly
[18:37] <superfly> dunno. The suppliers... Whoever they are ;-)
[18:38] <Kilos> but in sa it could be here in a day or two so maybe they had to first get it from over the water
[18:39] <Kilos> really sucks when your pc doesnt work
[18:39] <nlsthzn> hi uncle Kilos and others... busy playing some online chess :p
[18:39] <Kilos> lol hi nlsthzn
[18:39] <Kilos> thats why i kept the old P3 going
[18:41] <Kilos> who is scar[w]  , is he new here
[18:41] <superfly> Kilos: i ordered that motherboard as a replacement for mine that died... I don't have any spare old hardware
[18:42] <Kilos> eish superfly  look for an old pc to keep as standby
[18:42] <superfly> How's oom Kilos?
[18:42] <Kilos> good ty just cold
[18:44] <Kilos> i see someone there at ZA free on FB has a few to give away
[18:46] <Kilos> hows you superfly , and the family
[18:48] <superfly> Doing well thanks, we were just out for dinner.
[18:49] <Kilos> great
[18:54] <Kilos> night all of you. keep warm .
[18:58] <queery> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss_BmTGv43M
[19:24] <nlsthzn> disturbing
[19:24] <nlsthzn> yeah... I have now signed the ubuntu code of conduct... wasn't that hard to set up again
[19:46] <nlsthzn> night all


[00:09] <TheMarius> just curious, is this for a home computer and what are you using it for?
[00:11] <Gallomimia> who mine? right now i'm simply trying to make it boot. the problem with my DNS system is i tunnel internet thru my laptop, since the wifi dongle i have is frosted flakes. the laptop doesn't forward DNS so after dhcp goes thru, i have to change the dns config to one layer up in NAT
[00:16] <TheMarius> but if you get it running, what are you going to use it for?
[00:18] <TheMarius> im just looking at getting my awsome ubuntu mate setup up to do something useful
[00:18] <TheMarius> got slow bandwith so i dont think fileserver is any point
[00:18] <TheMarius> maybe xmpp server is something to look into though
[00:19] <ouroumov> Hi Gallomimia
[00:20] <ouroumov> Maybe this'll help: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/the-ars-guide-to-building-a-linux-router-from-scratch/
[00:20] <Gallomimia> general desktop use, including gaming, personal serving, compiling... whatever
[00:20] <Gallomimia> it's fairly loaded. lots of drives
[00:21] <Gallomimia> tried ubuntu unity for a long while. that entire situation is a bit of a joke
[00:21] <TheMarius> all i have now is a 5 tb home network server, but as fast and stable this system is i want it to do more
[00:21] <Gallomimia> unity looks nice, but it runs like a damn brick
[00:21] <TheMarius> its on 24/7 anyway
[00:21] <Gallomimia> yeah. i prefer to leave mine on 24/7
[00:22] <Gallomimia> but the first incarnation it had an ATI card, with some kind of factory overclocked feature that didn't fit inside the normal drivers
[00:22] <TheMarius> this is the first distro that has been running flawless with my ATI card
[00:22] <Gallomimia> came with windows only drivers. if any program made the wrong call to the driver, the entire desktop environment crashed
[00:22] <TheMarius> im not sure what kind of magic they've done
[00:23] <Gallomimia> especially bitcoin miner program. which i was running just as an added heat source in my room ><
[00:24] <TheMarius> im not mining bitcoins, i want to do something for people for free
[00:24] <Gallomimia> had to shut it down to do anything with the system. and shutting it down triggered a crash. kinda contrairy to running a linux distro at all eh?
[00:24] <ouroumov> That's as good a reason as many lol
[00:24] <TheMarius> xmpp is a descent idea
[00:24] <TheMarius> but i know 0 about setting it up, which to get etc
[00:24] <Gallomimia> the jabber server?
[00:24] <TheMarius> xmpp shouldnt consume much bandwith either
[00:24] <TheMarius> yeah
[00:24] <Gallomimia> it *IS* a decent idea. but it's implemented with XML
[00:24] <Gallomimia> lame.
[00:24] <TheMarius> meaning?
[00:24] <Gallomimia> i was just talking with some folks in another channel for a game...
[00:25] <Gallomimia> irc is still here. not going away any time soon
[00:25] <TheMarius> eggdrop bot
[00:25] <Gallomimia> i figured xmpp would take off and we'd be using that instead of telephones or skype or anything
[00:25] <Gallomimia> one thing i'd like to set up is multiseat
[00:26] <TheMarius> thing is
[00:26] <Gallomimia> this thing has 2 monitors, and enough power to run 2 of any older game
[00:26] <TheMarius> when i ran linux mint for a few years i had only that one laptop
[00:26] <Gallomimia> play with a friend
[00:26] <TheMarius> i never experimented much with servers and networks
[00:26] <TheMarius> now i have this massive 5 tb desktop
[00:26] <Gallomimia> well, i've found out the hard way... there's but one way to learn those things
[00:26] <Gallomimia> to yes, experiment, and to also generate some kind of need to learn it
[00:27] <ouroumov> TheMarius, if you wanna do something for people for free... There's Boinc.
[00:27] <Gallomimia> my favorite communication protocol to date is mumble
[00:27] <Gallomimia> whats boinc?
[00:27] <TheMarius> never had a linux install that ran well on this until this ubuntu mate 16.04 ... therefore this is more interesting now ... and i love the way linux works, with mounting into directories etc
[00:27] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, distributed computing for research projects
[00:27] <Gallomimia> oh yeah
[00:27] <Gallomimia> neato
[00:27] <TheMarius> ouroumov, irc bouncer so i get banned? no thanks
[00:28] <ouroumov> Here's an example of project you can donate CPU time to: https://mindmodeling.org/
[00:28] <Gallomimia> like seti@home or protien folding, but for anything
[00:28] <ouroumov> TheMarius, I think you mistook what I was talking about xD
[00:28] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, yes
[00:28] <Gallomimia> TheMarius: first of all, it's not a bouncer, and second, they don't get you banned. in fact i'm using one now
[00:29] <Gallomimia> and since we're on the subject of drives
[00:29] <TheMarius> xmpp and a eggdrop bot are the 2 ideas i have
[00:29] <Gallomimia> i'd like to show off my rig:
[00:29] <Gallomimia> i've got 3x 2tb drives in a raid5
[00:29] <Gallomimia> and i've also got a single 3tb drive. i have a pair of those
[00:29] <TheMarius> owncloud was a good idea but this network is too slow.. if fiber ever gets here to farmville ill set that up
[00:29] <Gallomimia> but the other two sata ports on my board are populated with SSDs
[00:29] <alexei> nice rig
[00:29] <Gallomimia> whoa what
[00:29] <Gallomimia> what is owncloud?
[00:30] <Gallomimia> cause i've been wanting something named that for awhile
[00:30] <TheMarius> Gallomimia, like dropbox only with as much storage as you want
[00:30] <TheMarius> set up on your home server
[00:30] <Gallomimia> yeah awesome
[00:30] <Gallomimia> exactly what i want
[00:30] <alexei> wait what? is it free?
[00:30] <TheMarius> thumbs up for that
[00:30] <TheMarius> ofcourse.. you use your own diskspace
[00:30] <alexei> awesome
[00:31] <TheMarius> google it and get working then :) got the tip from someone here a couple of days ago
[00:31] <freakjota> hi alla
[00:31] <TheMarius> but with 3 mbit or what it is here, its useless
[00:31] <ouroumov> hi freakjota
[00:31] <alexei> lol
[00:32] <Gallomimia> yeah i've got less than that right now
[00:32] <alexei> i have 10 mbit.. but i have a crappy pc
[00:32] <Gallomimia> but soon i hope it'll be more
[00:32] <alexei> oh ok
[00:32] <Gallomimia> k. gotta get back to plowing food into my face. need my hands, so i watch TV
[00:32] <alexei> do u know how to quick search for apps in mate
[00:33] <alexei> ok
[00:35] <Gallomimia> who me? no
[00:36] <Gallomimia> barely used it. ran an install
[00:45] <TheMarius> 3 mbit is just enough to watch youtube in 480p
[00:45] <TheMarius> or netflix in "moderate" resolution
[00:45] <TheMarius> thats it
[00:46] <TheMarius> however its fine for me... i dont need more
[00:48] <TheMarius> just wonder what im going to use this server for, and the 5 tb of diskspace :/
[00:48] <TheMarius> must be something useful
[00:51] <TheMarius> actually i can hook up 2.5 tb more
[00:51] <TheMarius> which would make it 7.5 tb
[00:52] <TheMarius> im out of warez and that sort of things
[00:54] <ouroumov> TheMarius, you wanna find use for what, your disk space? Your Internet connection? Your CPU?
[00:57] <TheMarius> everything
[00:57] <TheMarius> server ideas basically
[00:58] <TheMarius> never mind... ill keep looking
[00:58] <ouroumov> So distributed computing for your CPU, such as seti@home, Seeding the ubuntu torrents for your bandwidth, And Incremental backup of your machines for the disk space
[00:59] <ouroumov> That'd me my go-to
[01:00] <TheMarius> k :) noted
[01:00] <Gallomimia> i know someone who plays with AI, neural nets
[01:01] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, gotta have a nice GPU for that
[01:01] <Gallomimia> actually he's got cpu cores galore
[01:01] <ouroumov> oh :o
[01:01] <ouroumov> Xeon-like?
[01:02] <Gallomimia> yeah i think so
[01:03] <Gallomimia> he told me the specs. E5 something something
[01:03] <Gallomimia> dual cpu, hexcore +HT
[01:03] <Gallomimia> can't remember exactly. reams of ram
[01:03] <ouroumov> Sounds expensive
[01:04] <shantorn> howdy ri
[01:04] <ouroumov> hi shantorn
[01:05] <shantorn> hi there
[01:05] <shantorn> i miss typed the entry sorry
[01:05] <shantorn> i usually just watch and learn
[01:06] <ouroumov> You're welcome to do so. xD
[01:07] <ouroumov> Though this is not an overly active channel so it might be a while till there's something worth watching x)
[01:08] <ouroumov> shantorn, you're a new Ubuntu MATE user?
[01:09] <shantorn> not really, been using it since 15.04, used to always use mint mate but i feel the ubuntu version is a bit nappier
[01:09] <shantorn> snapier
[01:09] <shantorn> and i have been using 16.04 since beta one and i just love the software boutique
[01:10] <ouroumov> Yeah, the "Welcome" thing as a whole is awesome
[01:13] <shantorn> i have to learn about the ubuntu way to set up my optimus graphic on my laptop
[01:13] <ouroumov> Holly crap: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/05/easily-exploited-bug-exposes-huge-number-of-sites-to-code-execution-attacks/
[01:19] <Gallomimia> i finally got my ubuntu mate install to boot, but it doesn't log in.
[01:19] <Gallomimia> typing the password causes some kind of flicker, and returns to the login screen
[01:19] <Gallomimia> i need some help getting resolvconf setup on command line. fix DNS
[01:21] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, you've asked on the forums yet?
[01:40] <Gallomimia> i shouldn't need to ask. there should be something i can find
[01:40] <ouroumov> shantorn, I remember seeing a few post about optimus on the forums
[01:41] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, you've managed to log in?
[01:41] <Gallomimia> sure. just press ctrl+alt+f1 and you get a text console
[01:42] <Gallomimia> not very helpful when trying to edit graphical based settings
[01:42] <ouroumov> So you should be able to interface with the network manager using nmcli
[01:42] <Gallomimia> ah that'll help yes
[01:42] <ouroumov> DNS resolving is set up automatically when using DHCP
[01:42] <ouroumov> Are you using static addressing?
[01:43] <Gallomimia> no. it sets up auto with dhcp
[01:43] <Gallomimia> but....
[01:43] <Gallomimia> the dns info it gets is dead wrong
[01:46] <ouroumov> And you're sure it's not your router's fault? :x
[01:46] <Gallomimia> i'm absolutely sure it's my router's fault
[01:46] <Gallomimia> you see my router is this laptop
[01:47] <Gallomimia> the wireless dongle i have for my desktop is absolute drek. so i tether it to this, which gives dhcp, but no dns
[01:47] <shantorn> thanks ouroumov
[01:47] <Gallomimia> yet it still passes a dns value of itself
[01:48] <Gallomimia> i really don't need to talk about networking theory. i just want to set the nameserver address
[01:48] <Gallomimia> why is it so hard??
[01:51] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, "nmcli c mod uuid +ipv4.dns <IP_ADDRESS>"
[01:51] <Gallomimia> what's uuid?
[01:51] <ouroumov> Where uuid is obtained from the list "nmcli c show"
[01:53] <Gallomimia> ouroumov: there's no way i'm going to type all that out
[01:53] <ouroumov> Yeah, I feel your pain. I'm looking up the documentation for hints as to how to show the id for a connection
[01:55] <ouroumov> Error: invalid field 'id'; allowed fields: NAME,UUID,TYPE,TIMESTAMP,TIMESTAMP-REAL,AUTOCONNECT,AUTOCONNECT-PRIORITY,READONLY,DBUS-PATH,ACTIVE,DEVICE,STATE,ACTIVE-PATH. -_-
[01:56] <ouroumov> so yeah
[01:56] <Gallomimia> if i could just use some bash-fu to cut and paste that value in...
[01:57] <Gallomimia> fek it i'll just painstakingly type it all out
[01:57] <Gallomimia> no copy and paste for me...
[01:57] <ouroumov> VARIABLE=`nmcli c show | grep wlp2s0 | rev | cut -d' ' -f2 | rev`
[01:57] <Gallomimia> or, i could check some logs about why the GUI doesn't work
[01:57] <ouroumov> for the wlp2s0 interface
[01:58] <Gallomimia> not quite the name of mine but...
[01:58] <Gallomimia> might as well type out the uuid instead of all that :P
[01:58] <ouroumov> Sure, it'll be different based on your hardware
[01:58] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, I know right? x)
[01:59] <ouroumov> OH!
[01:59] <ouroumov> nmcli -f UUID c
[01:59] <Gallomimia> what's that do?
[02:00] <Gallomimia> anyway, i tried the first command. no luck
[02:00] <ouroumov> just prints the UUID, you can grep for the first characters then
[02:00] <Gallomimia> yeah neat
[02:01] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, the DNS command?
[02:01] <Gallomimia> still no dns
[02:01] <Gallomimia> yep.
[02:01] <ouroumov> Try and remove the "+", that way dns servs are replaced, not added to
[02:02] <Gallomimia> still nothing
[02:02] <Gallomimia> and it disturbs me that i can't seem to view the dns servers
[02:02] <ouroumov> ?
[02:03] <Gallomimia> i can't poll any system to find out what dns servers it's using?
[02:03] <ouroumov> hm, no idea
[02:04] <Nosophorus> Is there any problem if I install pppoeconf in Ubuntu MATE 16.04?
[02:05] <Gallomimia> that's funny. i can login just fine with a guest session
[02:05] <Gallomimia> the heck is up with that?
[02:05] <Nosophorus> I mean, could it conflict with any Internet connection configuration package?
[02:05] <Gallomimia> oh. i bet it's cause my home dir is populated with settings already
[02:06] <ouroumov> Nosophorus, you've got an old dls modem?
[02:06] <Nosophorus> ouroumov: This modem is a Thomsom Speedtouch
[02:07] <Nosophorus> Almost half a decade of use
[02:07] <ouroumov> Problem is whatever I can find online dates back to Ubuntu v9
[02:08] <ouroumov> I remember one dude on the forum mentioning pppoe and he had problems
[02:09] <Nosophorus> ouroumov: My worry is that pppoeconf may conflict with the nice and smooth app Xenial uses to connect and configure my connection.
[02:09] <Nosophorus> It simply runs smooth and by the numbers.
[02:10] <Gallomimia> it does?
[02:10] <Gallomimia> i've only been using mate for a half a day and i've found the default stuff conflicts with itself. i'm going to suggest gingerly that you'll be fine
[02:11] <Nosophorus> I don't know. I've just installed pppoeconf. I hope it doesn't.
[02:11] <ouroumov> Nosophorus, and obviously you're connected already, I don't understand very well what you want to do: set up a secondary connection using an old modem?
[02:12] <Nosophorus> ouroumov: I have been using pppoeconf since my first Ubuntu install (2007). I installed it just in case I need a backup method to configure my connection.
[02:12] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, I think your problem is with the Ubuntu base
[02:12] <ouroumov> Nosophorus, alright
[02:12] <Gallomimia> well see, the real problem i'm having is my old home still exists, with same uid and all the old files
[02:13] <Gallomimia> so it causes some bump when i try to login
[02:13] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, so why don't you move it?
[02:13] <Gallomimia> i'm just going to copy it all out of there
[02:13] <ouroumov> Yeah
[02:13] <Nosophorus> By the way, this new Ubuntu MATE 16.04 Xenial Xerus is much better than the previous LTS. The computer resources usage is pretty much optimized in this version.
[02:14] <Nosophorus> Chiefly the RAM usage has improved a lot.
[02:15] <ouroumov> Nosophorus, yeah there's been a lot of improvements
[02:15] <Gallomimia> there.
[02:15] <Nosophorus> One thing I'd like to see is the option to select the kind of world map used in the clock app.
[02:16] <ouroumov> Nosophorus, you should post your feedback in the forum
[02:16] <ouroumov> This place is more transient so your feature request will lack visibility here
[02:17] <Nosophorus> ouroumov: I'll do that. I taking note of everything I think would be useful and I'll show it to the Ubuntu MATE guys and gals.
[02:17] <ouroumov> ^^
[02:17] <Nosophorus> *I'm taking note.. .
[02:19] <Gallomimia> i got one question about ubuntu mirrors. my favorite mirror is missing from the list
[02:19] <Gallomimia> most of the packages that get fetched come from the same set as regular ubuntu tho. what gives?
[02:20] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, is that abnormal?
[02:20] <Gallomimia> nothing's normal. i'm using a completely new system
[02:21] <Gallomimia> but yeah. the mirror i used to use for ubuntu was in the same city as the HQ for my ISP
[02:21] <Gallomimia> fast didn't begin to describe it
[02:21] <Gallomimia> well, nothing's fast on this ISP. stupid dsl :(
[02:21] <Gallomimia> but the cable company... wow it would go
[02:22] <ouroumov> When you say "used to" we're talking what, last month?
[02:22] <Gallomimia> last time i had this system running. maybe 2 weeks ago
[02:22] <Gallomimia> for years
[02:23] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, last system was 16.04?
[02:23] <Gallomimia> no it was 14.04
[02:23] <Gallomimia> i'm consulting the site of the mirror now
[02:23] <Gallomimia> i think i'll drop them a mail
[02:25] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, maybe you can replace the mirror urls in /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:25] <ouroumov> After having backed it up, oc
[02:25] <Gallomimia> maybe. i'll not worry about it for now since the default server is saturating my link anyway
[02:25] <Gallomimia> as i said, DSL sucks
[02:25] <ouroumov> Okay
[02:25] <Gallomimia> but i'll be moving back to my favorite ISP
[02:26] <Gallomimia> and their HQ is in the same city as this mirror. the network topology favors it for sure
[02:38] <Gallomimia> sweet. 16.04 has properly up to date nvidia drivers in the default repos
[02:38] <Gallomimia> and why is grub so.....
[02:38] <Gallomimia> graphic-y?
[02:39] <ouroumov> Yeah, well, it gets updated too
[02:40] <ouroumov> I don't really care for it
[02:42] <Gallomimia> me either. cause it hangs now that i've installed those drivers.
[02:42] <Gallomimia> ....why??
[02:42] <Gallomimia> it was working!
[02:42] <ouroumov> !
[02:43] <ouroumov> That can't be the driver's fault though
[03:14] <Gallomimia> i don't get it
[03:14] <Gallomimia> i didn't change much else. it froze on the unlock crypto screen
[03:14] <Gallomimia> oh. well i did install steam. and that came with a boatload of other stuff
[03:14] <Gallomimia> i seem to remember having a few odd grub options in my previous setup
[03:15] <ouroumov> What crypto system are you using? FDE or home folder encryption?
[03:15] <Gallomimia> fde
[03:15] <Gallomimia> my LVM is inside a luks contianer
[03:18] <Gallomimia> recovery mode worked
[03:18] <Gallomimia> wish i knew why...
[03:19] <ouroumov> Boy I don't think I've seen anyone have as much trouble with this than you
[03:19] <Gallomimia> pfft. this was nothing
[03:19] <Gallomimia> took me 6 months to get things to run at all
[03:20] <Gallomimia> putting it on a raid was kinda silly
[03:20] <Gallomimia> now i still have to involve the ssd's as cache and swap
[03:20] <Gallomimia> seems pointless to have a cache and a swap that aren't encrypted right?
[03:21] <Gallomimia> i mean, why bother to have crypto at all if there's an unencrypted disk right there with everything you need
[03:21] <Gallomimia> now. let's see if the second monitor will work
[03:22] <ouroumov> I find having a swap at all is pointless, but well that's just me
[03:44] <jaime> hola
[03:45] <jaime> mo puedo conectarme a internat via wifi, solo via cableado
[03:46] <ouroumov> hi jaime
[03:47] <ouroumov> jaime, I don't speak that language, sorry. But I get you have a wifi problem so do that:
[03:47] <ouroumov> jaime, type in a terminal opened with CTRL+ALT+T the command: "lshw -C network"
[03:48] <ouroumov> jaime, get from the output the wifi card model and driver
[03:48] <ouroumov> Then google "ubuntu <model> <driver>"
[03:51] <jaime> thanks , I 'm looking right now
[04:05] <Gallomimia> hey is there any simple undelete programs installed on MATE?
[04:05] <ouroumov> Not that I know of
[04:06] <Gallomimia> accidentally started an rm on the wrong steam folder
[04:06] <Gallomimia> it'd be better to undelete than redownload :/
[04:06] <Gallomimia> thought i saw one...
[04:07] <ouroumov> Filerecovery tools are never simple to use anyway
[04:07] <Gallomimia> yeah...
[04:09] <Gallomimia> wow i hate how steam does things
[04:10] <Gallomimia> i mean, they get the games working, but controlling things, settings, the UI, all of that is horrible.
[04:12] <Gallomimia> !@#!@
[04:12] <Gallomimia> so annoying.
[04:12] <Gallomimia> oh well. seems to be working
[04:13] <Gallomimia> ok what's with the window managers
[04:13] <Gallomimia> which are "good" which are bad?
[04:13] <Gallomimia> i changed it to compiz, but i think that's the reason i wanted to switch away from unity
[04:13] <ouroumov> Use Marco + Compton
[04:14] <Gallomimia> thx
[04:14] <ouroumov> It's not heavy on eye-candy but it does the job
[04:15] <Gallomimia> don't really need eye candy right?
[04:15] <ouroumov> yup
[04:15] <Gallomimia> what i need is for the fullscreen apps to work :P
[04:15] <ouroumov> That and vsync
[04:15] <ouroumov> Only reasons to use a compositor
[04:16] <Gallomimia> and now, i just want to turn off the workspaces. can you guide me to that?
[04:18] <ouroumov> Gallomimia, weird, but OK
[04:18] <ouroumov> You should have a workspace switcher applet in the lower panel, on the right
[04:18] <Gallomimia> having 2 monitors doesn't really lend itself well to using more than one workspace
[04:18] <Gallomimia> ah, preferences
[04:19] <Gallomimia> ound it
[04:19] <ouroumov> Right click preference -> Number of workspaces = 1
[04:19] <Gallomimia> great thanks
[04:19] <ouroumov> I have two monitors and 8 workspaces xD
[04:19] <Gallomimia> yeah i've tried a few systems with workspaces. it can be useful, but it sucks i find, if you want your chat on one screen and others...
[04:19] <Gallomimia> well maybe you can tell me how you work all that
[04:20] <ouroumov> Well my workspaces are basically zones in which I do stuff
[04:21] <Gallomimia> yeah i like that kind of thing
[04:21] <Gallomimia> i could get used to them
[04:21] <ouroumov> Programming area, ssh sessions area for server admin, webbrowsing, media, etc
[04:22] <Gallomimia> but i tend to use one of my monitors for dedicated things. like music, chat, steam window
[04:22] <Gallomimia> while my main monitor either has a game, or browser
[04:22] <Gallomimia> terminals can be either
[04:22] <Gallomimia> i'll try workspaces later sometime
[04:22] <Gallomimia> just because you said so :P
[04:23] <Gallomimia> can you lock certain windows or programs to all workspaces?
[04:23] <ouroumov> Yes
[04:23] <Gallomimia> that might become useful
[04:23] <ouroumov> Currently I have the IRC chat locked set so it follows the current workspace
[04:24] <Gallomimia> hm. need menu bar on both screens
[04:25] <ouroumov> I don't think you can do that in the current version of the OS
[04:26] <Gallomimia> that's too bad. i can't even seem to get it on my main monitor
[04:26] <Gallomimia> it was in monitors settings for ubuntu unity
[04:26] <ouroumov> Yeah it's in display settings
[04:27] <ouroumov> Oh actually I found a way to have other panels
[04:28] <ouroumov> It's not a clone though, it's a different panel
[04:28] <ouroumov> Right click on a panel and select "new panel"
[04:28] <Gallomimia> ah. neat
[04:28] <ouroumov> In panel properties set the orientation
[04:28] <ouroumov> Then uncheck "expand"
[04:29] <ouroumov> Then by grabbing the extremities of the panel, you can drag it where you want
[04:29] <Gallomimia> when i uncheck expand, there are no extremities, it disappears
[04:30] <Gallomimia> ah ok. before changing orientation i can move it to the other screen
[04:31] <Gallomimia> ok so i got a panel. i wonder if i can find some way to clone the contents of the other
[04:32] <Gallomimia> well, that's a lot of stuff to worry about another time i think
[04:32] <ouroumov> I don't think there's a way, you gotta duplicate the applets because they're assigned a panel
[04:32] <Gallomimia> i'll look into it another time
[04:35] <Gallomimia> there's a lot to set up!
[04:37] <Gallomimia> quassel! now i can type on my better machine.
[04:38] <Gallomimia> yeah things are much better
[04:39] <Gallomimia> heh. nuked a couple games :/
[05:06] <Gallomimia> well thanks for chatting with me ouroumov. for the time being it seems things are working. tho i had to use recovery mode to boot.
[05:07] <ouroumov> yeah
[05:07] <ouroumov> I'm curious to know how that's even working
[05:07] <Gallomimia> oh yeah me too
[05:07] <ouroumov> I mean point of FDE is that it's not possible to bypass
[05:08] <Gallomimia> oh, it asks me to unlock it in the old text version
[05:08] <ouroumov> ah
[05:08] <Gallomimia> before it even gets to the recovery menu. then i select boot as normal
[05:08] <Gallomimia> i mean.... i haven't tried rebooting since then
[05:08] <ouroumov> Did you do a full system update / upgrade?
[05:14] <Gallomimia> fresh install
[05:14] <Gallomimia> on a new LVM
[05:14] <Gallomimia> so, i still have the old one, but it didn't work
[05:14] <Gallomimia> gave up on fixing it and decided well, 16.04 is out
[05:14] <Gallomimia> then i started thinking about my dissatisfaction with unity and musings about it in other channels
[05:15] <Gallomimia> thought, hey i'll try a different flavor while i'm at it
[05:15] <Gallomimia> and here i am
[06:38] <savalan> hello there
[06:38] <savalan> i have a question
[06:39] <savalan> is there anyone to help me please on ubuntu mate
[06:44] <savalan> hello lichen
[06:44] <savalan> how are you
[06:46] <savalan> too bad
[08:35] <fogar> sabe alguien  resolver  problemas  audio  en  mac ppc g5?
[08:36] <alkisg> !english
[08:37] <fogar> tengo mate 16 ppc  y me  encanta ,ok
[08:39] <fogar> You know someone solve audio problems ppc mac g5?
[08:39] <fogar> I kill 16 ppc and love, ok
[08:41] <fogar> I have a 2 screen television 32 'and the colors are distorted, be a solution? thank you very much
[08:42] <alkisg> fogar: what's the output of this command?
[08:42] <alkisg> xrandr
[08:42] <alkisg> Put it in pastebin...
[08:44] <fogar> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 2640 x 1024, maximum 4096 x 4096
[08:44] <fogar> DVI-I-1 connected 1280x1024+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 340mm x 270mm
[08:44] <fogar>    1280x1024     75.02*+  60.02
[08:44] <fogar>    1024x768      75.08    70.07    60.00
[08:44] <fogar>    832x624       74.55
[08:44] <fogar>    800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25
[08:44] <fogar>    640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    60.00
[08:44] <fogar>    720x400       70.08
[08:44] <fogar> DVI-I-2 connected 1360x768+1280+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 160mm x 90mm
[08:44] <fogar>    1360x768      60.02*+
[08:44] <fogar>    1280x720      60.00    50.00    59.94
[08:44] <fogar>    1024x768      60.00
[08:44] <fogar>    800x600       60.32
[08:44] <fogar>    720x576       50.00
[08:44] <fogar>    720x480       60.00    59.94
[08:44] <fogar>    640x480       60.00    59.94
[08:44] <fogar>    720x400       70.08
[08:44] <alkisg> Use http://paste.ubuntu.com
[08:45] <fogar> problen  is dvi-i-2
[08:45] <mate|7315> hi! please how to launch an application "undecorated" (i mean avoiding to see the window and scroll bars) and in a fixed position on the screen?
[08:45] <mate|7315> via command line?
[09:15] <valtteri_> Hey guys! Just installed Ubuntu MATE 16.04. I had 15.10 before, but I had messed around too much, so better start over fresh. That's why I have a few questions - if you don't mind - before I mess things up again... I use Plank and Topmenu, as I'm used to OS X, but they both have something wrong this time. Plank is missing settings file, so I can't set ShowDockItem=false. And Topmenu has no mozilla plug-in installed. How can
[09:15] <valtteri_> I fix these, and should I be worried something else, maybe more critical is missing too?
[09:16] <valtteri_> Or Mozilla has no Topmenu plug-in, maybe that way... :P
[09:23] <mra_> valtteri_: hmm, never heard of plank or topmenu, but good luck with that
[09:53] <jeff_> hi
[09:54] <Guest5968> hi
[13:54] <gordonjcp> dammit guys
[13:54] <gordonjcp> it's May now
[13:54] <gordonjcp> why isn't there a 16.10 alpha out yet?
[13:55] <ouroumov_> You can use the daily build gordonjcp :D
[13:56] <gordonjcp> yay
[13:57] <gordonjcp> it's more fun when everything's on fire
[14:13] <erkan^> gordonjcp and ouroumov_ , can you research: which is the faster: Firefox or Chromium? I had often problem with Firefox, because Firefox open and lading is slow. With Chromium is faster. I don't understand how cna that.
[14:15] <ouroumov_> r
[14:15] <gordonjcp> o_O
[14:19] <ouroumov_> erkan^, I don't use Chromium
[14:19] <erkan^> Can you test Chromium, ouroumov_ ?
[14:19] <erkan^> CHromium is in software centre
[14:19] <ouroumov_> What I know of Chromium is that it uses one separated Process or Thread (not sure which) per tab
[14:20] <ouroumov_> erkan^, sorry I don't want to
[14:21] <erkan^> Ok, I am curious to users of Ubuntu MATE which browser is the faster, ouroumov_
[14:22] <gordonjcp> erkan^: I have done some research
[14:22] <gordonjcp> erkan^: Chromium is faster
[14:22] <gordonjcp> erkan^: this guy on IRC said it seemed to be faster
[14:24] <erkan^> Yes, I don't understand how can that Firefox is slow, gordonjcp

[14:24] <gordonjcp> damned if I know

[14:24] <gordonjcp> 15:13 < erkan^> gordonjcp and ouroumov_ , can you research: which is the  faster: Firefox or Chromium? I had often problem with Firefox,  because Firefox open and lading is slow. With Chromium is  faster. I don't understand how cna that.
[14:25] <gordonjcp> ^ that guy says Chromium is faster
[14:25] <ouroumov_> This is the guy.
[14:25] <ouroumov_> xD
[14:25] <gordonjcp> ouroumov_: I didn't say I did particularly exhaustive research
[14:27] <michael_> hi
[14:28] <erkan^> Goodafternoon sir Michael_
[14:30] <michael_> i need some general help with the rpi3 and sound via hdmi. or is it still a bug?
[14:31] <michael_> found this: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/hdmi-on-rpi-ubuntumate/1248/36
[14:31] <michael_> is it up to date?
[14:33] <erkan^> No idea?
[14:33] <erkan^> hi ubuntu-mate
[14:42] <vok`> erkan^: Hi.
[14:48] <erkan^> hi vok`
[15:05] <TheMarius> he's ubuntus best mate
[15:11] <giita> why would you use chromium if chrome is also in the software centre
[16:03] <hid|ninja> hey
[16:04] <hid|ninja> has someone ever installed mozjpeg?
[16:26] <Nosophorus> hello, guys
[16:26] <alkisg> Hello
[16:57] <TheMarius> ok any of you guys got movit to work in kdenlive?
[16:59] <gordonjcp> TheMarius: do you still need to compile from source?
[16:59] <TheMarius> i just installed the default kdenlive package from ubuntu repositories
[17:00] <TheMarius> havent done anything else
[17:00] <gordonjcp> the movit website suggests it's still pretty experimental
[17:02] <TheMarius> yeah
[17:03] <MrBIOS> hi folks, I am experiencing a problem with gvfsd-smb-browse proess taking up 100% of CPU on initial log-on (in this case it’s on PowerPC), and was wondering if anyone here knew if that was a known issue on 16.04
[17:03] <TheMarius> however if im to use this old crap pc for video editing i think i should get it enabled
[17:03] <ouroumov> MrBIOS!
[17:03] <TheMarius> its an old amd x4 3.2ghz clocked to 3.5ghz with 8 gig ram
[17:03] <ouroumov> MrBIOS, this is a know issue. There's a bug report on launchpad, lemme get that for you.
[17:04] <MrBIOS> great, I’d like to subscribe to it
[17:04] <ouroumov> MrBIOS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1409032
[17:04] <MrBIOS> thanks a bunch
[17:05] <ouroumov> MrBIOS: Thank you man. The more people marking themselves as "affected", the faster it'll be solved.
[17:07] <MrBIOS> ouroumov: done, bug heat is already at 100
[17:09] <ouroumov> :]
[17:20] <erkan^> wow Claws Mail is faster than Thunderbird
[17:21] <erkan^> I think that Mozilla has very problem now.
[17:21] <swift110> hey all
[17:23] <erkan^> hi swift110
[17:23] <erkan^> :)
[17:23] <swift110> how are you erkan^
[17:24] <erkan^> I am fine and you too?
[17:28] <erkan^> Claws Mail is new for me, i am tried or I like this. swift110
[17:33] <swift110> oh ok
[17:34] <hid|ninja> erkan^: have you used thunderbird before?
[17:34] <hid|ninja> it seems its development by mozilla will stop soon
[17:35] <hid|ninja> i also need an alternative :>
[17:36] <chiel> hi
[17:38] <erkan^> Yes sure and that is right, hid|ninja
[17:38] <erkan^> You can try with Claws Mail, hid|ninja
[17:38] <bennabiy> I just rebooted and my Advanced menu disappeared
[17:39] <bennabiy> I had this happen as a result of python-xlib in linuxmint 17.3 but just had it happen in 16.04
[17:39] <erkan^> Or you can look in Software Center: Search: Mail, than you get a list of Mail, hid|ninja
[17:49] <ouroumov> Hey bennabiy
[17:49] <bennabiy> ouroumov: hi
[17:49] <ouroumov> bennabiy, maybe you can report it as an issue on mate-menu then?
[17:51] <ouroumov> hid|ninja, "no longer in dev" does not mean "no longer supported"
[17:52] <bennabiy> ouroumov: thank you.
[17:53] <hid|ninja> ouroumov: i trust mozilla
[17:53] <Dackel> Hi,how can i change the file manager?
[17:53] <hid|ninja> Dackel: try thunar, very good fm
[18:07] <ouroumov> Hi Dackel. Some dude on the forum replaced Caja with something else, maybe you can adapt his steps for the file manager you want: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/use-nemo-instead-of-caja-updated-for-xenial/4124/3
[18:07] <Dackel> i decided to use gnome commander,but how i can change the settings to start gnome commander instead caja?
[18:09] <Dackel> ouroumov, thanks
[18:21] <Akuli> you mean for the desktop icons
[18:21] <Akuli> ?
[18:21] <Akuli> first you'd disable caja's desktop icons, then enable gnome commander's desktop icons :)
[18:28] <Dackel> thx Akuli
[18:28] <Akuli> arch wiki mentions disabling caja's desktop icons
[18:29] <Dackel> thank
[18:29] <Akuli> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE#Prevent_Caja_from_managing_the_desktop
[18:37] <duno> guys, i need some help, please! how to set up ubuntu-mate to enable audio via hdmi on the rpi2/3??
[18:39] <nomic> raspi-config
[18:40] <nomic> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/audio-config.md
[18:40] <nomic> duno ^
[18:43] <duno> nomic, have you ever tried "raspi-config" on ubuntu-mate?
[18:47] <ouroumov> duno, you can also browse the UM community forums, lots of people reporting problem with sound on rasp. Maybe you'll find a fix in there
[18:50] <nomic> no
[18:50] <duno> ouroumov, the problem is "ubuntu" (mate, lubuntu ans xubuntu) on the rpi 2/3 without any solution. xbian, also on 4.4.8+ is working fine on the rpi 2/3 with audio via hdmi. but for ubuntu, there is no solution to fix that problem ... therefore i am asking here ... maybe to fix that problem.
[18:50] <nomic> try it (raspi-config)
[18:51] <duno> there is no raspi-config on ubuntu
[18:51] <nomic> go to forums, ask there
[18:51] <duno> what forum?
[18:51] <ouroumov> This one: https://ubuntu-mate.community/c/support
[18:54] <duno> you mean this: "https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/hdmi-on-rpi-ubuntumate/1248" ? there is still no answer ... no about 15.10, nor 16.04 ...
[18:56] <duno> for that i "try" to find a solution "online" ....
[18:56] <ouroumov> duno,
[18:56] <duno> me 2 :(
[18:57] <ouroumov> No that's the nickname you're using dude
[18:57] <ouroumov> Anyway
[18:57] <ouroumov> duno, did you try and follow Wimpy's advice? https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/hdmi-on-rpi-ubuntumate/1248/8?u=ouroumov
[18:59] <duno> i am using the same (working) config.txt from my xbian on the ubuntu device no luck :(
[19:00] <duno> both are using 4.4.8+
[19:00] <ouroumov> Yeah
[19:00] <ouroumov> Well, if you have the time, you should post in this thread too
[19:01] <ouroumov> Sorry but if no one knows, I'm sure not gonna find out seeing I don't own a rpi. :x
[19:01] <duno> what do you need, the config.txt?
[19:01] <ouroumov> ?
[19:01] <ouroumov> No more like just post saying you're affected by this too
[19:02] <duno> /boot/config.txt
[19:02] <duno> ah, ok
[19:03] <ouroumov> duno, also you might subscribe to this bug tracker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1563112
[19:03] <duno> i asked the guys in #xbian for help, but they say "sorry, this is #xbian, not ubuntu ..." :(
[19:05] <bennabiy> ouroumov: where is the bugtracker for mate-menu
[19:07] <duno> ouroumov, "https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1563112" is analog audio, not audio via hdmi!
[19:09] <ouroumov> bennabiy, actually I'm not sure. One of https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-menus/issues | https://bitbucket.org/ubuntu-mate/mate-menu/issues?status=new&status=open | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate
[19:10] <Akuli> Which mate-menu?
[19:10] <Akuli> the mintmenu fork?
[19:11] <bennabiy> Akuli: yes
[19:11] <bennabiy> The "Advanced" one
[19:12] <Akuli> then you should see if mintmenu also has the problem
[19:12] <duno> ouroumov, i do not understand that the (audio-) mixer in ubuntu is not showing hdmi as an device, only bcm2835 Analog Stereo Output ...
[19:12] <bennabiy> Akuli: it does
[19:13] <bennabiy> but I did not have this issue until just recently
[19:13] <bennabiy> mintmenu the issue was python-xlib
[19:13] <Akuli> is it still using python 2?
[19:13] <bennabiy> but the mate-menu was working in 16.04 with the updated python-xlib so I think it is something else this time
[19:13] <Akuli> i thought all the mint stuff was moving to python 3 but no...
[19:14] <nomic> z.z.z.
[19:15] <bennabiy> rebooting
[19:16] <Akuli> right, their menu is still python 2 and gtk 2.
[19:18] <mortalius> hello all
[19:18] <duno> is there (here) a special channel for ubuntu and rpi 2/3?
[19:20] <ouroumov> hi mortalius
[19:21] <ouroumov> duno, not according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
[19:24] <duno> ouroumov, i tired #xubuntu, #lubuntu, #ubuntu-mate and #ubuntu-arm ... but no answer ...
[19:25] <alkisg> duno: what do you want to ask about?
[19:25] <mortalius> question: On ubuntu-mate 16.04: I have a bug (?) on ctrl-a (selection) -> if the selection has a endline space caracteres , then the cursor go to begin line and no selected any word.
[19:25] <duno> alkisg, hdmi and audio on the rpi2/3
[19:26] <mortalius> i see this behavior on several application ( pluma, hexchat ..)
[19:26] <mortalius> +s
[19:26] <ouroumov> mortalius, attempting to reproduce
[19:26] <alkisg> duno: you don't have audio?
[19:27] <duno> not via hdmi on ubuntu xyz
[19:27] <mortalius> ouroumov, note: i configure mate with software composing
[19:28] <alkisg> duno: there's a setting for that in config.txt, did you see that?
[19:28] <ouroumov> mortalius, I'm not sure I understand the problem, so I'm not sure I attempted to reproduce correctly, do you have a test file?
[19:29] <mortalius> "blabla blalblala" <- selection is correct but "blabla blalblala " (with space end caract) is bug
[19:29] <mortalius> with ctrl-a
[19:30] <duno> alkisg, as i wrote, i am using the same config.txt for ubuntu as i am using for xbian. but it is not working on ubuntu.
[19:30] <ouroumov> mortalius, it works fine on my setup (Marco+Compton) can someone else reproduce?
[19:30] <mortalius> hum, i test with compton
[19:30] <duno> ubuntu do not show the hdmi-audio output in the mixer ...
[19:31] <mortalius> ouroumov, i have the bug with compton
[19:32] <ouroumov> mortalius, what color scheme are you using in pluma?
[19:32] <duno> alkisg, i am using: gpu_mem_1024=256
[19:32] <duno> gpu_mem_512=144
[19:32] <duno> gpu_mem_256=100
[19:32] <duno> initial_turbo=3
[19:32] <duno> hdmi_ignore_cec_init=1
[19:33] <duno> disable_overscan=1
[19:33] <duno> disable_splash=1
[19:33] <duno> hdmi_force_hotplug=1
[19:33] <duno> hdmi_group=1
[19:33] <duno> hdmi_drive=2
[19:33] <duno> hdmi_mode=16
[19:33] <duno> dtoverlay=lirc-rpi
[19:33] <duno> and this is working fine on xbian
[19:33] <mortalius> ouroumov, not only with pluma, also with hexchat, firefox .  I think that is not specific to pluma
[19:34] <ouroumov> Yeah but I'd like to reproduce and the simplest to configure is Pluma I think
[19:35] <mortalius> ok
[19:35] <mortalius> the theme is tango
[19:36] <ouroumov> mortalius, and pluma version is 1.12.2?
[19:36] <mortalius> note, sorry for my bad english,
[19:36] <mortalius> yes, 1.12.2
[19:37] <mortalius> with a clean install
[19:37] <mortalius> install time is 24h
[19:37] <ouroumov> From the 16.04 LTS release ISO?
[19:37] <mortalius> ans the update are ok
[19:37] <mortalius> ubuntu-mate iso
[19:37] <mortalius> 16.04 yes
[19:38] <ouroumov> Hmm, I updated my two machines from Beta 2 and I previously saw a bug only affecting me but not clean 16.04 installs. Maybe this is the reverse case.
[19:38] <duno> alkisg, any idea?
[19:38] <ouroumov> alkisg, Akuli, can one of you guys reproduce mortalius's bug?
[19:39] <mortalius> i  test to change the layout keyboard, but i have the bug again
[19:39] <Akuli> probably not, i still haven't managed to install 16.04
[19:40] <ouroumov> mortalius, what's weird is that CTRL+A is the traditional keybinding to go to the start of a line in console-based text editors
[19:41] <mortalius> ok
[19:41] <mortalius> nb: i don't change the shortcuts config
[19:42] <ouroumov> What Appearance theme are you using?
[19:42] <mortalius> hum, i see the same behavior with double clic mouse for selection
[19:43] <mortalius> the default theme
[19:43] <mortalius> ambiant-MATE
[19:44] <mortalius> i logout/login for make a test
[19:44] <mortalius> i re
[19:44] <ouroumov> mortalius: yeah, still can't reproduce. Maybe post about it on the community forums?
[19:44] <ouroumov> ok
[19:45] <mortalius> re
[19:45] <ouroumov> re
[19:45] <mortalius> hmu, i use parcellite ...
[19:46] <mortalius> i test without it
[19:46] <mortalius> oh yes
[19:46] <mortalius> parcellite is the problem
[19:46] <ouroumov> Nice
[19:46] <ouroumov> I mean, not nice of course
[19:47] <ouroumov> but well done locating the problem
[19:47] <mortalius> ;)
[19:47] <ouroumov> mortalius, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parcellite
[19:47] <mortalius> ok, i see
[19:48] <mortalius> and i search an another clipboard
[19:48] <duno> alkisg, do you now understand where the problem on the rpi2/3 with the hdmi-audio is?
[19:49] <duno> analog is working fine, but mixed or only hdmi is not working.
[19:49] <ouroumov> mortalius, I don't see a bug report matching your specific problem with parcellite, maybe you should start one?
[19:49] <ouroumov> mortalius, seeing you have a well reproducible problem, this could be useful I think
[19:52] <duno> bye all
[19:52] <ouroumov> bye duno
[19:57] <casa> hola
[19:58] <ouroumov> Hello casa
[20:06] <alkisg> ouroumov: no, I can't reproduce the issue mortalius reports
[20:07] <mortalius> ok, alkisg . I think to have to find the origin: parcellite. I write now a report
[20:08] <ouroumov> mortalius: thanks for doing that. :)
[20:09] <mortalius> it's normal .
[20:09] <mortalius> i try to write a correct msg in english ;)
[20:14] <casa> ourroumov hello
[20:18] <mortalius> re
[20:20] <mortalius> ouroumov, is it possible to re-read this report (http://pastebin.com/raw/0cPsN4Vg) for english correction ?
[20:27] <ouroumov> mortalius, one moment
[20:35] <bennabiy> aklisg: I am back now
[20:36] <alkisg> bennabiy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1568170 caused the regression that you see
[20:37] <ouroumov> mortalius, here: http://pastebin.com/YNDF3ub1
[20:37] <alkisg> bennabiy: the .diff is there: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/254014318/mate-menu_5.7.0-1_5.7.1-1.diff.gz
[20:37] <bennabiy> alkisg: hrm... but the issue just showed up.
[20:38] <bennabiy> that is dated back in april
[20:38] <mortalius> ouroumov, oh, great ... a go to send the report ... thanks
[20:38] <alkisg> You can see the logic there, if all those synaptic etc packages are missing, button2 is not initialized and crashes
[20:38] <alkisg> flexiondotorg: ^
[20:38] <alkisg> bennabiy:  It takes some time to go through the -proposed queue
[20:38] <bennabiy> alkisg: got it
[20:38] <alkisg> Check your /var/log/apt/history.log
[20:39] <alkisg> You'll see the date when mate-menu was updated for you
[20:39] <alkisg> If you e.g. create a symlink from /usr/bin/synaptic to /bin/true, the menu won't crash anymore
[20:39] <alkisg> Mention the issue in that same bug report, that it caused this regression
[20:40] <bennabiy> no mention of mate-menu in there
[20:40] <alkisg> "add software boutique to the advanced mate menu"
[20:40] <alkisg> this doesn't mention the menu?!!
[20:41] <bennabiy> no, /var/log/apt/history.log
[20:41] <alkisg> Maybe it was rotated an is in history.log.1 or so?
[20:41] <alkisg> or some other .gz history
[20:44] <mortalius> ouroumov, i'm a very noob :/ --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parcellite/+bug/1466796
[20:45] <mortalius> date : 2015-06-19 ... old report
[20:47] <bennabiy> alkisg: the only references to mate-menu in my history (of any type) is pre-install (dated 4-20)
[20:48] <bennabiy> alkisg: I am sure it is related, but I am not sure what would have just caused it to happen (I have logged out and back in a couple times today, and at the start of the day it worked)
[20:49] <alkisg> bennabiy: did you uninstall any of those packages? synaptic, boutique etc?
[20:49] <bennabiy> alkisg: I installed sysinfo
[20:49] <bennabiy> I just removed it
[20:52] <bennabiy> alkisg: changes recent https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8869659
[20:54] <ouroumov> mortalius, do you have "trim whitespace" enabled?
[20:55] <ouroumov> mortalius, and when you hit ctrl+a, is it copied to the clipboard?
[20:55] <ouroumov> mortalius, I'm not sure this is the same bug which is why I didn't mention it earlier
[20:56] <alkisg> bennabiy: and you've logged out etc since yesterday, or do you stay logged in for days?
[20:57] <mortalius> ouroumov, possible, wait and see
[20:57] <ouroumov> mortalius, according to your conf, you don't have "synchronize" enabled
[20:57] <mortalius> yep
[20:59] <bennabiy> alkisg: Usually I stay logged in, but I have logged out and back in a couple times today
[20:59] <bennabiy> It is possible that I might be remembering wrong
[21:00] <bennabiy> Might have been yesterday
[21:01] <alkisg> bennabiy: anyway, I think the code is clearly broken, and it's easy to reproduce both the issue and the workarounds
[21:01] <alkisg> I don't think it's important for you to remember when it started happenning of if you logged out etc
[21:03] <alkisg> bennabiy, flexiondotorg, the previous code didn't have the issue because it only showed Button2 if one of those apps existed
[21:03] <alkisg> Now it's trying to show button2 even if no app exists, and crashes
[21:07] <bennabiy> alkisg: agreed
[21:09] <alkisg> If I don't forget about it, I'll attach a patch for that tomorrow
[21:09]  * alkisg waves
[21:09]  * bennabiy waves
[21:45] <festerB> hi all, I have an encrypted usb connected external backup hdd and a known password
[21:46] <festerB> thing is after upgrading from linux mint to ubuntu mate the password does not work
[21:46] <festerB> any clues?
[21:49] <ouroumov> festerB, hi
[21:49] <ouroumov> You're using the same keyboard layout?
[21:51] <festerB> ouroumov: pretty sure, yes, in any case the password is composed using chars from the lower part of the ascii table
[21:51] <ouroumov> festerB, that's a sensible measure. Is your UM system fully up to date?
[21:52] <festerB> ouroumov: UM sys?
[21:52] <ouroumov> Yes
[21:52] <ouroumov> I'm pretty sure ecryptfs was updated not too long ago
[21:53] <festerB> ouroumov: google's got nothing on "um system" ;)
[21:54] <ouroumov> Ubuntu MATE *
[21:54] <ouroumov> Sorry
[21:54] <festerB> ouroumov: heh, yeah my 16.04 mate is up2date
[21:55] <ouroumov> festerB, you still have a Mint ISO handy? If so have you tried to mount your drive from the live session?
[21:56] <festerB> ouroumov: I even booted into LM 17.3 with same results - yup
[21:56] <ouroumov> Well, crap
[21:56] <ouroumov> Did you print the recovery key when you set up the hdd?
[21:57] <festerB> ouroumov: nop, I don't remember coming across that option even
[21:58] <festerB> ouroumov: I now know there is a key and it's not the same as a password
[21:58] <ouroumov> yeah
[21:59] <ouroumov> I'm sorry festerB but I'm no expert and I've already asked you all the questions I could think of
[21:59] <TheMarius> is there a steam repository ? i get this annoying message about updating steam
[21:59] <festerB> ouroumov: ok, thx, I'm taking a new full backup now
[21:59] <TheMarius> didnt find any at google
[22:06] <mra_> TheMarius: hmm.. isn't steam in some ubuntu repository.. let me check
[22:07] <TheMarius> it is
[22:07] <TheMarius> in the default
[22:07] <TheMarius> however the version isnt the latest obiosly
[22:07] <TheMarius> doesnt matter.. just wondered
[22:07] <mra_> hmm
[22:08] <mra_> i thought it has auto update too..
[22:11] <mra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valve links a steam.deb
[22:11] <TheMarius> found a kdenlive repo ... im waiting for the GPU rendering there to work ... getting a gopro at some point in the future so i want kdenlive to edit videos
[22:11] <mra_> http://media.steampowered.com/client/installer/steam.deb
[22:12] <mra_> hmmh
[22:12] <TheMarius> ah tanx
[22:12] <TheMarius> it said "reinstall"
[22:12] <TheMarius> seems i have that version
[22:13] <mra_> hmmh, but steam still wants you to update? interesting..
[22:13] <TheMarius> anyway a amd x4 3.2 ghz with 8 gb of ram isnt exactly the best thing for video editing, but it should work
[22:13] <TheMarius> especially with gpu rendering
[22:13] <TheMarius> yep mra
[22:17] <TheMarius> another thing .. mate screensaver didnt work so i installed xscreensaver
[22:20] <SCHAAP137> TheMarius, replace the Screensaver entry in your startup applications
[22:20] <SCHAAP137> replace the mate-screensaver command with: xscreensaver -no-splash
[22:21] <TheMarius> done it .. it works fine but i just wondered if anyone else had the same problem
[22:29] <KerrMD> Would light-DM have an issue with transparency in Tilda? I've tried compiz as well as compton and no change. The window just turns black.
[22:33] <hid|ninja> hey
[22:33] <hid|ninja> how can i change marco transparency
[22:34] <kisb> marco?
[22:36] <KerrMD> As seen in Mate Tweak > Windows > Marco (Compton GPU compositor)
[22:39] <julio__> boa noite
[22:39] <julio__> testasndo
[22:40] <julio__> boa noite
[22:40] <julio__> boa noite
[22:41] <kisb> think you are interested in window border as seen in appearance > themes > customize
[23:39] <rajiv_> i have just install gnome software in my ubuntu-mate 16.04. How it works? I mean its not doing anything. How do i make it work?
[23:46] <festerB> ok, it's do slow here at the mo ;) when i edit menus and tick show games it works but games do not show up and when i go back into edit menus it's gone
[23:46] <festerB> how can i get games to show up in the menu?
[23:56] <pilne> mine are showing up just fine (steam, quake, chocolate doom/doom2)
[23:57] <pilne> are you closing the "control center icon" with close or the x?


[02:38] <daftykins> be nice to have some backup to stop getting lynched by the newbies over in #ubuntu
[02:39] <valorie> lynched by newbies!
[02:39] <valorie> sounds a bit extreme
[02:39] <daftykins> indeed!
[02:40] <daftykins> surrounded, i am :)
[02:40]  * valorie has no ops over there
[02:40] <valorie> sorry
[02:41] <daftykins> no problemo - is your stomping ground elsewhere?
[02:42] <valorie> yep, the kubuntu chans
[02:42] <valorie> and KDE chans
[02:42] <daftykins> ah har
[02:43] <daftykins> ah well, my fault for lingering of a weekend :) cya \o
[02:43] <valorie> ciao
[10:19] <Myrtti> good grief
[10:19] <Myrtti> keyboard Tourettes...
[10:19] <Myrtti> ugh.


[18:44] <furkan> tjaalton: my bug report got marked as confirmed and high priority (no idea who confirmed it), but after what you said about qt/gtk, i booted up into fedora 22 alpha (Xorg 1.17.1 + Gnome 3) and was able to reproduce the bug, although it's harder to produce, here's a 10 second vid: https://www.dropbox.com/s/85n2iq27zm00dlo/VID_20150410_033406.mp4?dl=0
[18:44] <furkan> so you're probably right that it's an upstream bug
[18:45] <furkan> except who knows which package
[18:46] <furkan> it's harder to see in the video, but pretty clear near the end of the 10 seconds
[18:46] <furkan> i'm just repeatedly maximizing and restoring a window
[19:27] <tjaalton> just file it on xserver for now
[19:27] <tjaalton> or dri - radeon
[19:28] <tjaalton> hm though you said it was triggered by the xserver upgrade
[19:28] <tjaalton> or file it against the ati driver
[19:28] <tjaalton> it at least has people that look at the bugs
[19:29] <furkan> will do, now that i've reproduced it on 2 distros, they can't say it's an ubuntu bug
[19:33] <furkan> since it doesn't happen w/ fglrx, it could also be a glamor thing
[19:34] <furkan> but i don't have any machines w/ nvidia or intel gfx to test that theory with
[19:34] <furkan> (if i'm correct in assuming that fglrx doesn't use glamor)
[19:47] <tjaalton> it doesn't