[09:04] <kwwii> morning all
[09:05] <thorwil> morning!
[09:05] <thorwil> how's the weather in london? :)
[09:06] <kwwii> thorwil: actually, much better than germany ;)
[09:09] <darkmatter> -6C here. I'm going skinny dipping!
[09:21] <kwwii> lol
[09:21] <kwwii> lol
[09:27] <kwwii> oops
[09:56] <darkmatter> kwwii: I'm seriously considering authoring an advanced css extension for gtk+
[10:01] <thorwil> darkmatter: what would make it advanced and how would it be an extension?
[10:06] <kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, I have the same question as thorwil ;)
[10:15] <darkmatter> thorwil: long version or short? I'll start with the short I guess. from one aspect, think of something akin to glade, but much more flexible and potentially powerful. designed to encompass not just local, but the web as well. (bear with me. kinda tired, my wording is substandard and I may jump back and forth a bit). part of the reasoning is to avoid unnecessary redundancy. trivial and unimportant example: text rendering. currently if
[10:16] <darkmatter> shoot. hope that didn't pass the cutoff
[10:16] <kwwii> hehe, it did
[10:17] <darkmatter> last bit was?
[10:17] <kwwii> yepp
[10:17] <kwwii> I think I get the basis of it
[10:17] <kwwii> you want something which is easier to use, with something like a gui editor
[10:24] <darkmatter> kwwii: aesthetics are only part of the reasoning, but yes, partly. but still on the aesthetic issue. gtk is fairly limited in what it can doin a so-called vanilla state. adding a higher degree of control would allow for much consistency in interfaces. (I'm talking overall, not patterns. there are times when attempts at consistency in patterns make usability and usefulness fail, since they're always heavily dependent on the application
[10:30] <darkmatter> kwwii: at another level it ties into application development as well. as it is css based (I'd like to push beyond pure css when I (hopefully) do find the time to start), it also opens the possibility to 'transplant' the web. allowing for traditional 'runs in browser' crap to  become 'who needs a browser?'. it may sound akin to prism or such, but it's only because I generalized :P
[10:32] <thorwil> i do think browser/desktop should be bridged with common framework, resulting in apps that don't care as much as possible
[10:33] <thorwil> i also think glade and the layout system it represents isn't even nearly good enough
[10:34] <thorwil> but i have doubts about CSS alone being suitable for gui layout
[10:34] <darkmatter> it's a matter of convergence. at the moment we have junk that runs in the browser, stripped down browsers that run junk in chromeless windows, local junk, and hybrid junk. part of the plan is to make that interaction less fractured and allow for better integration where it makes sense. I'm not saying do it everywhere
[10:35] <kwwii> darkmatter: that sounds like an interesting approach long term...sounds *really* hard to do though :p
[10:35] <darkmatter> thorwil: it's not css alone. thus the 'advanced' part ;)
[10:36] <thorwil> kwwii: you mean it doesn't sound like a solo show? ;)
[10:36] <darkmatter> kwwii: yeah. but that's the general rule. things that in the end are worthwhile are never easy
[10:39] <thorwil> darkmatter: i think a better layout system should borrow from parametric CAD. for example a button would have anchor points on all 4 corners, plus at least an additional one for the basline of its label. add relations to the anchor points to make them line up vertically or horizontally
[10:39] <darkmatter> kwwii: I'd go deeper, but then I'd have to get into the entire plan.. the inklings of which mysteriously popped into what was supposed to be a strictly gtk related discussion :P
[10:39] <thorwil> darkmatter: add a rule system to determine the spacing between the elements layed out via anchor points
[10:41] <kwwii> darkmatter: I think in order to make those kinds of changes you would need to be very involved in gtk development
[10:42] <thorwil> the anchor system should have 2 main benefits over the current tables: no need to know the layout before creating widgets in the editor, as you can start with widgets and then do layout. no isolated areas due to separate tables and expanders
[10:46] <darkmatter> thorwil: I've no issues with CAD or similar, and forgive me if the 'css extension' led you on, perhaps not the best choice of words, since css is only part of the idea. but in general the idea is to conserve both code and ui. improve what already exists, if improving it isn't feasible for a given set of functions then just replace those bits. keep unnecessary redundancy to an absolute minimum and avoid i entirely whenever possible
[10:48] <darkmatter> if we already have a specific functionality, don't replicate it, hook into it
[10:51] <darkmatter> sure, I speak a lot from aesthetics/UX, it's the artist/designer in me, but I'm more than just a ui guy. the definition of 'design' to me is a singular subject. it is the environment at all levels, both structural and conceptual.
[10:52] <darkmatter> it is widely agreed to be the proper approach (which I just happen to believe wholeheartedly in), but it's also generally avoided like the plague, since initially it does encompass a much higher degree of engineering
[11:11] <darkmatter> kwwii: I agree about the involvement with gtk dev 'if' it catches on, but the extension is more for proof of concept. I still need to bounce ideas around a few heads. but basically, whatever final form it takes, it'll be extension >proof of concept app (even if it's just an alternative gui-level bit glued to an existing application). think of it like a flash mockup, only more substantial.
[11:14] <darkmatter> it's an entire next-gen environment concept I'm working on. a lot of stuff, the gui level is just a tiny part. It's less about making it a reality (though that goal is the ultimate dream) than sparking ingenuity. reach for the stars, land on the moon.
[11:36] <kwwii> darkmatter: sounds pretty cool, good idea....hope it's not too much work for one person though
[11:40] <darkmatter> kwwii: there's a few other who are interested in helping out. not enough for anything large scale, but even if only one or two items get realized (necessary compromises included) I'll be pleased
[11:45] <darkmatter> kwwii: as far as the convergence bit goes. I remember the days when we actually had more convergence between the web and the local system. it always felt right. then it got killed. now a few bits of lovely have brought some of it back (not linux specifically, but in general), and it 'still' feels right
[11:46] <kwwii> darkmatter: yeah, true
[11:47] <kwwii> I agree with the concept but I cannot imagine how much work it'll be :p
[11:52] <darkmatter> like the really old msn, circa 98ish. msn may suck, but the old interfaces (one was filer-ish, the other was kinda like a media center' were spot on for the era. today there's things like skimmer (its an air app, so should run on linux), all kinds of third party WPF stuff for windows, all are remarkable for what they do. apple junk. there's even 'prior art' from nix that was borrowed by the 'evil empires' :P
[12:00] <kwwii> hehe, right
[12:04] <darkmatter> convergence died initial because at the time there wasn't a 'market' if you will. the net was young and full of hope, but hadn't yet found it's place. the 'market' exists today, but we've gotten caught in the 'go to the web' mentality, like the cloud (aka the glorified dumb terminal) I'd rather have a smart terminal that is even smarter when it is connected
[12:06] <darkmatter> I mean, our libraries aren't music/pictures/documents. our library is whatever information is currently at our disposal. regardless of it's location.
[12:10] <kwwii> I tihnk that part of the fault was the technological status at the time and the misunderstanding of how things would progress
[12:10] <darkmatter> aye
[12:24] <darkmatter> one of the parts I do intend to realize is Sojourn. the general concept is a library/activity center of sorts. atm it taked light inspiration frome the slab, as there is a panel applet for shortcuts (activities proper instead of an activities button as a list of apps) applets current design direction is two paned clickable categories (which open the appropriate 'location') in the left pane, the right pane displays bookmarks for each c
[12:26] <darkmatter> the home 'page' of the main application would contain you're favorite bits, most recent messages, notification, etc. similar to the way home is on the web, but encompassing local as well. blah blah
[12:26] <darkmatter> you get the idea
[12:27]  * vish googles darkmatter's blog...! damn...! isnt one yet :/
[12:28] <darkmatter> it'll come. finishing up some crap
[12:29] <vish> darkmatter: you better start one soon , else I'm gonna check the logs and post all your ideas as mine ;p
[12:29] <darkmatter> :P
[12:29]  * vish lazy to think up new ideas ;)
[12:34] <darkmatter> vish: but yes. the main concept/interface collection has a name now :P the dream is still to have an environment devoid of applications in the traditional sense, focusing on what you're doing instead, but reality is about compromise, and ya gotta start somewhere. which is the root of the concept. plug it into existing applications without the need to think about the apps
[12:35] <darkmatter> I thought Sojourn appropriate, since it is about the journey (aka the user experience)
[12:38] <darkmatter> and the various definitions of sojourn also are appropriately applicable at various levels
[12:39] <darkmatter> various usages*
[12:39] <darkmatter> meh. tired brain, bad engrish *shrugs*
[12:44] <vish> argh! , i'm trying to send a mail to the gnome-shell list with a mockup , but mccann hasnt updated the shell to his latest app menu change :/
[12:46] <darkmatter> vish: and after sojourn is born I'm going on a sojourn ;p
[12:47] <vish> ;)
[12:47] <vish> lol  , reporter *breaks* "unbreakable" phone > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/8450385.stm
[12:47] <darkmatter> hehe
[17:06]  * Equiet_ found an usability enhancement in Nautilus (and others maybe).
[17:08] <Equiet_> When you set Nautilus to List view (I am not sure about english translation), you see the Last change in "Mon, October 2 2009, 14:13:15 CEST".
[17:09] <Equiet_> Wouldn't be better to show "2 months ago" and when you hover it, it will show the exact time?
[17:09] <Equiet_> What do you think?
[17:11] <thorwil> list view is correct
[17:12] <thorwil> there are several modes for displaying dates
[17:14] <thorwil> Equiet_: could be nice, not quite sure about it.
[17:37] <kwwii> I think that this idea has been discussed before, let me try to find info
[17:38] <kwwii> I think there is a bug report about it, sounds like a good idea to me...keep pushing ;)
[17:39] <kwwii> Equiet_: this would probably be a good discussion for #ayatana
[18:53] <thorwil> i have a "client" who can't decide between the first 4 on http://www.foopics.com/get/ce410753a0d21dc17701fcc231bdbf10/0
[18:53] <thorwil> any thoughts, especially regarding the F?
[18:55] <Equiet_> thorwil: Why there are so much elements? Can't be just one row?
[18:56] <thorwil> Equiet_: it's a logo for an audio plugin collection
[18:56] <thorwil> Equiet_: so the elements stand for it being a group/set/collection
[18:57] <Equiet_> I know, I read your blog.
[18:57] <Equiet_> But 3 circles are enough for me.
[18:57] <vish> Equiet_: blog?
[18:57] <Equiet_> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
[18:58] <vish> oh thorwil's
[18:58] <Equiet_> thorwil: But if only these are choices, I like 2B.
[18:59]  * vish likes 3B ;)
[18:59] <vish> oops! noooo
[19:01] <thorwil> is anyone here reminded of other symbols when looking at this set?
[19:04] <Equiet_> Just facebook and one tool used for measurement.
[19:06] <vish> bah.. what the hell 3B seems ok
[19:07] <thorwil> vish: it's out of the game
[19:07] <thorwil> Equiet_: ok, thanks!
[19:08] <vish> oh! you meant first 4! i was thinking why you said 4 and the rows had numbers upto four o.0
[19:09] <vish> heh , i like the 1b from the logo2 batch :D
[19:09] <vish> thorwil: Equiet_: which is your fav pick ?
[19:10] <thorwil> vish: one of the 4. seems we have a decision: 2B
[19:12] <vish> thorwil: i meant from the whole batch you have in your blog
[19:12] <vish> just asking :)
[19:12] <thorwil> vish: yes, that's what i meant, too
[19:20] <vish> ew.. my head hurts at looking at all those logos ! :/
[19:20] <vish> ;p
[19:23] <Equiet_> Is https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts still acutal? I guess I could submit there my little Nautilus enhancement.
[19:24] <vish> Equiet_: oh no you dont! i'll invalidate it ;)
[19:24] <vish> j/k
[19:34] <vish> Equiet_: the only problem with changing everything to 2months and so , would be too many files would have been edited 2months ago and there would be no way to sort them out
[19:35] <vish> everything in the 30 month period would be grouped together
[19:39] <Equiet_> vish: I don't understand.
[19:42] <vish> Equiet_: list view allows you to sort the files according to the field[currently according to the date modified/saved ,etc...] , if several files only display 2months ago , 1 month ago , those files would just be grouped together and they would not make it easy if the user wants to find something on a particular date
[19:43] <vish> also , the file edited probably 35 days ago would be next to the file edited 55days ago...
[19:43] <vish> so the date sort wont really be easy...
[19:43] <vish> *UNLESS*
[19:44] <vish> the sort is done by the edit date but only displays the 1month/2month
[19:44] <vish> But even with that the sort order would not be easy to recognize for the user :(
[19:45] <Equiet_> vish: No... It would be sorted good.
[19:45] <Equiet_> Well, I don't know how Nuatilus, but in PHP I use sort by timestamp.
[19:46] <Equiet_> And that timestamp is changed do "3 months ago" when it's being displayed.
[19:47] <Equiet_> (Database has timestamp, view/template has the modified one.)
[19:47] <vish> Equiet_: how does it arrange a file done 95 days ago and 115 days ago? both as 3months ago?
[19:47] <Equiet_> Yes.
[19:48] <Equiet_> But 95 days will be first.
[19:50] <vish> Equiet_: thats where the problem arises... it wont be clear to the user that the sort was since the earlier file was due to it being 95 days earlier... *however* .. it would work if the date was 3months back... i would prefer atleast stuff for 90days to show the date.. beyond which could probably do what you suggest
[19:52] <Equiet_> vish: There won't be just months. I propose to have "5 seconds ago", "5 minutes ago", "5 hours ago", "5 weeks ago", "5 months ago", "5 years ago".
[19:53] <vish> hmm...
[19:54] <Equiet_> Or look at last.fm comments. F.e. http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Oldfield .
[19:58] <vish> Equiet_: while it works for the comments page , where the date/time is not really essential[rather it is very ideal for comments]... it would not be ideal as you are now not showing important metadata.  showing 3 months ago is probably easy for user... but when you say 14days  , 28daysago , you have to calculate the date , which is not easy to do immediately
[19:59] <vish> for those it is better to show the actual date , rather than make the user think/calculate the date
[20:00]  * Equiet_ got new idea.
[20:01] <vish> if the user was looking for a file done say 4th jan... he could just look at the file date and know it ... if it was displayed as 8days ago.. he has to think first and know how many days ago 4th jan was before finding the file
[20:01]  * vish awaits
[20:01] <Equiet_> Take the drag'n'drop window to Calendar on top panel changes the format of time.
[20:01] <Equiet_> I know, it's not possible. :(
[20:05] <Equiet_> Or when you search in folder, it doesn't take only file names, but also size, date and type.
[20:05] <Equiet_> It would be great to type "image" and you will see only images.
[20:06] <vish> Equiet_: i think zeitgeist allows you to do that...
[23:09] <wolter> Hi, can anybody tell me which would be the best method to save a page-size png image into a pdf document without having it lose quality?


[03:04] <strycore> Hi, I have uploaded the 0.5.7 release of Lutris to the PPA lutris-team/lutris but it doesn't show up anywhere. All I have is the 0.5.6 release. When I try to re-upload it tells me the package has already been uploaded. Anything to get this unstuck?
[03:05] <sarnold> strycore: check your email, some classes of launchpad errors are reported via email
[03:41] <strycore> that's the thing, I usually receive an email when I upload a faulty package but here I got nothing
[03:43] <sarnold> argh. I know I've heard of this one. what was it... missing signature? expired gpg key?
[03:43] <sarnold> is the 'already been uploaded' message coming from dput? I think there's a way to modify a local file somewhere to cause dput to forget that it's already done the upload.
[03:43] <strycore> ooh, you might be on something, I did update my GPG key
[03:44] <sarnold> aha! does launchpad know the new key?
[03:47] <sarnold> time for me to bail.. well, tha was 45 minutes ago. anyway.
[03:47] <sarnold> have fun, good luck, I hope that's it :)
[03:52] <strycore> I didn't have the key in launchpad, if you have that trick to make dput forget about the upload that would be handy. Otherwise, no worry. Thanks for reminding me about the GnuPG key :D
[04:02] <wgrant> strycore: dput -f
[04:02] <wgrant> It's a purely local check
[04:03] <strycore> awesome, thanks!
[04:06] <strycore> the package is building. Thanks again!
[09:25] <mvo> hey, I am trying to push a git repo of snapd to lp and I get "git push fatal: remote error: Path translation timed out.". I found https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/689269 that indicates this might be some sort of LP issue? or am I doing something wrong, I added a new rmote "git.launchpad.net/~mvo/snapd/+git/snapd-wip" (that does not exit yet) and tried to push to that
[09:37] <cjwatson> mvo: This is a known issue being worked on in the general case, but maybe we can patch things up a bit in this specific case
[09:40] <cjwatson> mvo: (requested on ~is on Mattermost)
[09:47] <mvo> cjwatson: thank you, not super urgent right now for me. was just a bit confused if I did something wrong
[09:50] <cjwatson> mvo: You didn't - our "clone new repository based on existing one" protocol just needs some design fixes
[09:50] <cjwatson> mvo: See https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1883510
[09:50] <mvo> ta
[13:47] <cjwatson> mvo: Try now?  Sorry for the delay
[14:13] <tomwardill> oSoMoN: if you retry your snap builds, they stand a better chance of working now
[14:13] <tomwardill> fix for the bzr issue was just deployed
[14:14] <oSoMoN> tomwardill, did I retry too soon? https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/+snap/0ad
[14:14] <tomwardill> took a bit longer than I'd like due to an unfortunate conflict with upgrading jenkins.
[14:14] <tomwardill> oSoMoN: the fix literally just went out 5 minutes ago
[14:14] <tomwardill> oh, huh, that top one is more recent than that
[14:14] <oSoMoN> yeah
[14:15] <tomwardill> maybe give it 5 minutes and try again, if it still fails, let me know
[14:15] <oSoMoN> will do
[14:15] <tomwardill> it's entirely possible it's an unrelated problem
[14:15] <tomwardill> which would be unfortunate
[14:25] <tomwardill> oSoMoN: so.... it's related to the same update, but it's a different problem
[14:26] <tomwardill> looking at it now
[14:26] <tomwardill> sorry!
[14:26] <oSoMoN> tomwardill, no worries, and thanks for looking into it. Do you want me to file a separate bug?
[14:27] <tomwardill> I'll file one in a mo when we've got a better handle on what's going on
[14:31] <oSoMoN> ack
[14:32] <tomwardill> oSoMoN: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/1886834 fyi
[14:44] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, worked now


[05:35] <Mho-Games> Greetings !
[05:37] <Mho-Games> have a lil question. How to i force studio to use generic Kernel instead of Low Late?
[16:07] <sakrecoer> i'm a little bit confused with snaps..
[16:07] <sakrecoer> on one hand: super handy! on the other hand: wuut?
[16:07] <OvenWerks> why? or how? or something...
[16:09] <sakrecoer> they build their little homes in my home, with an entire file structure. it doesn't take too much space since most of the folders are empty anyways. But then the loading times: what's up with that? I've only installed commercial crap i need for work so far with it: slack, telegram, visual code... It takes for ever to load them! If i use the .deb on the website it takes 1/10 of that loading time...
[16:11] <OvenWerks> that was why I asked "why" :)
[16:12] <sakrecoer> i get security warnings about how i need to use `--classic` flag for them to be able to talk to the rest of my drive. And the few apps (Telegram) that don't need that flag well.. they are just being locked out. So if someone send me a work document on telegram, i need to copy it from that little home in my home, to.. well, my actual home...
[16:12] <OvenWerks> wine might be faster...
[16:12] <sakrecoer> i suppose that's cool: now me as a user have taken that decision myself.
[16:13] <sakrecoer> but those loading times.... how come .deb with dpkg can do it so much better and faster and daftpunkier then snap?
[16:13] <OvenWerks> send a bug report against the package.
[16:13] <sakrecoer> good idea!
[16:13] <OvenWerks> request it be turned into a deb...
[16:14] <sakrecoer> it has had me confused... i feel like it was promoted to me as some next level kinda thing, and all i got was a redundant home in my home... but i suppose i haven't tested ALL snaps yet....
[16:15] <OvenWerks> snaps were designed for the dev not the user. So the user can only complain.
[16:16] <sakrecoer> hahaha!!! that sounds like.... as if the gap between devels and users wasn't big enough!
[16:16] <sakrecoer> digital class war! computer literate against computer consumers!
[16:17] <sakrecoer> i certainly belong to the consumers in the snap trench :D
[16:17] <OvenWerks> well not really, it will just make ubuntu slower than windows.
[16:17] <sakrecoer> hahahaha
[16:17] <OvenWerks> users will use what serves them best.
[16:18] <OvenWerks> That means that devs may just decide ubuntu/linux is not worth their time.
[16:19] <sakrecoer> on the long run, i have that fear too! i keep hearing: "people born 2000 are so digital they are the one's showing the way" ye.... they are supercomfy with instaface jargon and "accept" buttons, but do they even know what's happening in the background? how do we make them care.... oh well... i can feel my stallmanian beard growing as a think about it...
[16:20] <sakrecoer> sorry mao172229 :D
[16:22] <sakrecoer> stepped in mid rant... :D it's not like i know so much more than "accept" clicking youngsters in fact... but i care somewhat.
[16:26] <OvenWerks> computers are tools... people believe what they are told... they even believe that that laptop with a 2 core cpu is an i7 the same as the one in their desktop :P
[16:29] <OvenWerks> In the end people will choose the tools they think do the work they need done the best.
[16:34] <sakrecoer> yes... sadly it seems to me most users want a TV that answers interactively when they react to some crazy content. For that i7 is quite over kill. Looing at my modern phone's specs, it would seem a pentium 3 would do!
[16:35] <OvenWerks> Thats apple's next gen...
[16:35] <sakrecoer> well.. hehe... no, i mean... maybe... but that's not the "modern" phone i have...
[16:36] <OvenWerks> Apple is loosing th eintel cpu for an arm.
[16:36] <sakrecoer> ARM seems to be the bomb lately hehe
[16:37] <OvenWerks> we will see how all the artists that use them for performing like them
[16:37] <sakrecoer> alli can think of right now is Mark Rebillet's song about the android/iOS debate :D
[16:37] <OvenWerks> (or graphics artists for that matter)
[16:38] <sakrecoer> the title is confusing... and the song is NOT safe for work...
[16:38] <OvenWerks> android speced the audio really bad
[16:38] <sakrecoer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAK8-T4Uow0
[16:39] <sakrecoer> ye... i guess i have to agree...
[16:40] <sakrecoer> i don't understand it tbh... the interface changed, so now everything is different? why can't a computer the size of my pocket with 4 times the power of my computer from 2004 do the same thing? If my fingers are at cause i'll gladely plug a mouse in it!
[16:41] <sakrecoer> thing is, i tried to plug a mouse in it, but the software to allow that made it even worse...
[16:41] <OvenWerks> The android audio spec allows hardware makers to get away with really bad HW for audio. SO even if the sw goes around the top layer audio to one lower, you have to be lucky with the hw to get usable latency.
[16:42] <sakrecoer> i feel like a reactionary old fart, but i am in fact not a technophobe at all. on the contrary: i like to get my hands "dirty" on it.
[16:42] <sakrecoer> yes...
[16:42] <OvenWerks> both android and ios present the dev (or most of them) with a virtual machine. This allows more variety of hw
[16:43] <sakrecoer> i suppose that is what it takes to get a digitally illetrate society to rely on the device...
[16:44] <sakrecoer> i mean, take where i am: sweden. we are almost a cash less society. But yet there is a very small minority that understand even the surface of the consequences to that.
[16:44] <sakrecoer> old people have no more banks to go to, to pay their bills...
[16:44] <OvenWerks> it means sw dev is "easier" (I didn't find it so) and one package works on all hw
[16:44] <sakrecoer> of course, if we all need to pay bills with the phone then perhaps it's a bad idea to have it wide open to any useage...
[16:45] <sakrecoer> but, my sentiment is that we would be better off making society computer literate, before we make them computer-dependent
[16:45] <OvenWerks> Yikes! my phone can't touch any of my money
[16:46] <sakrecoer> you know i felt like that too!! but it's impossible now. If i don't let my phone touch my money (my bank) than i have no way to authenticate with any governmental agency anymore without having to travel miles and stand in a 4h long line.
[16:47] <OvenWerks> no one complains?
[16:47] <sakrecoer> banks have basically become a higher authority regarding my identity then the state!!!!
[16:48] <sakrecoer> yes!! me, 2 other FOSS people and 300 old farts that will die at any moment (at least the bank hopes so)
[16:48] <sakrecoer> "but it's so convenient! no need to travel a mile or stand in a 4h line, Just get BankID already"
[16:48] <OvenWerks> fine, but on a phone?
[16:49] <sakrecoer> you can have it on your laptop too! but only if its win/ios
[16:49] <OvenWerks> a phone is something that has to be left laying on a charger... hardly a secure place to have anything.
[16:50] <sakrecoer> i agree!!!
[16:50] <sakrecoer> and actually, they really push for you to use the phone as a "2FA" for anything you do on the computer
[16:50] <sakrecoer> like: log in to bank? authenticate with phone
[16:51] <sakrecoer> so you NEED 2 devices! talk about excluding the poor form a functional life!
[16:51] <OvenWerks> The can I borrow your phone for a sec scam is big too... then it is now if you want it back give me $100 (or however rich you look)
[16:53] <sakrecoer> Well... at this point, you really don't want to borrow your phone: it's not like they aren't running huge campaigns about how people get scamed. Infact people do get scammed all the time! of course, they have no idea what they are doing with their devices! "bu... but... i just pressed "agree"!"
[16:53] <sakrecoer> *lend your phone
[16:53] <sakrecoer> you know.. like "i agree to a convenient life"
[16:57] <sakrecoer> pff... in some way i feel i should apologize for this extended rant...
[16:57] <OvenWerks> Like letting the browser keep your passwords :P
[16:57] <sakrecoer> hahaha
[16:58] <sakrecoer> what do you mean? why would it be a bad idea to store my secrets on the gateway to the information highway?!
[16:59] <sakrecoer> not sure where to store them tbh...
[16:59] <sakrecoer> but the less secrets there are to be stored the less problem...
[16:59]  * sakrecoer beatboxes Biggie Small
[17:14] <sakrecoer> on another, positive, note! Acid December! We have 10 days worht of music!!! \o/
[17:15] <sakrecoer> and that's pretty serious! some of that stuff is made by some serious people, that are ready to give their stuff away for the fun of it!
[17:16] <sakrecoer> It's not like society is crumbling over itself, there is just a big thumb taking all the attention away from the other 8 phalanges!
[17:16] <sakrecoer> ok, 2 big thumbs
[17:16] <sakrecoer> but still!! 8 phalanges of digital people!
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> I'll see your 8 phelanges and raise you 10 more in the form of toes.
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> (point still stands, sakrecoer)
[17:26] <sakrecoer> \o/!!!!!!
[17:26] <sakrecoer> Clear majority!!!!!
[17:26] <sakrecoer> that's like 16 to 4!!!
[17:26] <sakrecoer> a full on square!!!
[17:27] <sakrecoer> on a 64 bit processor, that would be 64 to 8! :D
[17:30] <sakrecoer> maybe not, but i really needed that positive note right here right now Eickmeyer <3
[17:30] <Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: Glad to oblige. :)
[20:02] <studio-user740> any "hidden gems|" that you know of in studio?
[20:02] <studio-user740> new user here still figuring things out
[20:03] <studio-user740> what's the coolest thing you[ve done with studio?


[12:53] <lorentedford> wow... anyone awake this early in the morning?
[12:54] <lorentedford> I am running Ubuntu studio and having issues with bluetooth headsets my issue started there and then ended up loosing all sound completely i am reinstalling at the moment any ideas from anyone?
[17:51] <rwb> Hi, Does anybody know good resource to find/compare the best hardware for a nice Linux based Art workstation? I would be using it mostly for running gimp, InkScape, MyPaint, Blender... maybe some video editing as well.   I would also like to see what is happening with input things like tablets touch screens, etc...  Any advice? Links?
[17:53] <cfhowlett> rwb, grrrrrrreat question!  come on over to #ubuntustudio and we'll talk
[17:55] <cfhowlett> doh!  you're already here!
[17:55] <cfhowlett> sorry, too much eggnog.
[17:56] <cfhowlett> rwb, OK, you don't state your budget ...
[18:20] <rwb> Lots of egg not here as well!  I'm actually willing to put it out pretty well to get the best I can with an eye on future upgrades.  It's kind of a do-over for me.  I know I need LOTS of memory, fast multi core processors, a REALLY good graphics card,  I really need duel hi res large displays for sure!;  For now, storage is another consideration, but I would like a good amount of some fast RAID.  I can also wait for fancy input
[18:21] <cfhowlett> desktop or laptop
[18:21] <rwb> Desktop I think. I know this will need fans.  This is a machine that I will only fire up when in use...
[18:22] <rwb> I will not be using this for anything else.
[18:24] <cfhowlett> rwb, you might actually find a custom build your best option ... i7 4800, nvidia gpu, 16 or more gigs of ram, plus as much temp storage as you can manager
[18:24] <rwb> Yes, I will be custom building this.  I can see large displays, scanner, various media drives, but mostly a dedicated single use art workstation.
[18:25] <cfhowlett> rwb, well for some comparison: dell precision m3800 (laptop, but see the specs)
[18:30] <rwb> Actually, avoiding a custom build would be great, as long as it's modular enough to expand on in the future.
[18:31] <rwb> Thanks for helping get the gears turning
[18:32] <cfhowlett> rwb, can't address desktop but the Dell precision m3800 looks appears an excellent combination.  I'd like to say the same of the hp zbook 15 generation 2, but that damn AMD gpu is not really linux friendly.
[18:32] <cfhowlett> http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/zbook-15.html
[18:32] <cfhowlett> http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/pd
[18:33] <cfhowlett> rwb the dell page has some informative resources and readings


[00:14] <fta> bug 331841
[11:38] <asac> james_w: help ... do you know this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/120546/
[11:38] <asac> major breakage ;9
[11:38] <asac> is that builddeb doing that to me?
[11:39] <asac> oh loom
[11:39] <james_w> yeah, upgrade loom
[11:39] <james_w> reading NEWS.Debian for the update of bzr-builddeb is probably a good idea for you
[11:39] <asac> james_w: i am up-to-date in jaunty
[11:39] <james_w> it's not in jaunty is it?
[11:40] <asac> james_w: not sure ... i had a package installed. thought it was from archive
[11:40] <asac> james_w: yes. i will look in NEWS. i had to downgrade builddeb
[11:40] <asac> on my other system
[11:40] <james_w> why?
[11:40] <asac> seems it doesnt understand --export-upstream* properly anymore
[11:40] <asac> in jaunty
[11:40] <asac> let me look in NEWS
[11:41] <james_w> yeah
[11:41] <james_w> it's gone away
[11:41] <james_w> because it was broken
[11:41] <asac> james_w: it worked well for me (finally)
[11:41] <asac> i used merge = TRue
[11:41] <asac> and export-upstream-revision=
[11:41] <asac> (but not export-upstream)
[11:42] <asac> so when i needed tarball i could specify --export-upstream=.
[11:42] <asac> keeping stuff with warning for one cycle would be nice ;)
[11:42] <asac> err
[11:42] <james_w> could you tell me a bit more about what you wanted to do with it, then I can make builddeb work better for you
[11:43] <asac> james_w: i just want to have info to produce upstream tarballs on the fly in my try
[11:43] <james_w> yeah, I would have liked to have done that, but using it would just lead to trouble
[11:43] <asac> tree
[11:43] <asac> just like i had with --export-upstream=
[11:43] <james_w> ok
[11:43] <asac> (i filed a bug about that ... which would have made that perfect for me)
[11:43] <asac> but now i migrated a bunch of branches there
[11:43] <asac> and the feature is gone
[11:44] <asac> i have 2.1~0ubuntu1
[11:44] <asac> and bzr help builddeb still tells me about --export-upstream
[11:44] <james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb/+bug/317111
[11:44] <james_w> that's yours
[11:44] <asac> yeah
[11:44] <james_w> I think I know how to fix your case
[11:45] <james_w> I kind of forgot about merge mode
[11:45] <asac> james_w: well. currently export-upstream seems to be broken
[11:45] <asac> or removed (according to you)
[11:46] <asac> ok the initial issue i had with bzr st is gone ... seems it was intermediate while upgrades were running
[11:46] <james_w> I think adding an "export-upstream" command is the way to fix this
[11:46] <asac> james_w: my branches are not always full sources
[11:47] <asac> james_w: i cannot use merge-upstream
[11:47] <james_w> then you can invoke that as you like, without having to first find the combination of configuration options that makes it work for you
[11:47] <asac> e.g. i used it for the new network manager branches
[11:47] <asac> which are just debian tree
[11:47] <asac> worked great
[11:47] <james_w> sure
[11:47] <james_w> I want to fix it
[11:47] <asac> so i could easily still the right revision into the tree
[11:47] <asac> ok
[11:47] <asac> so what should i do for now?
[11:47] <james_w> making this change made merge-upstream much much better, so I don't regret it
[11:47] <asac> hold back the upgrade?
[11:47] <james_w> give me a few hours?
[11:48] <asac> sur3e
[11:48] <james_w> sure
[11:48] <asac> ;)
[11:48] <james_w> I'll include the command in the next upload
[11:48] <asac> james_w: can you still honour the export-upstream-revision = config?
[11:48] <james_w> as you were essentially simulating such a command
[11:48] <asac> that would be great
[11:48] <asac> i adde that info now in a bunch of branches
[11:48] <james_w> my current thought is this
[11:48] <james_w> upstream-branch = foo
[11:49] <james_w> to allow it to be remembered
[11:49] <asac> ok
[11:49] <james_w> bzr export-upstream [BRANCH]
[11:49] <asac> and the revision?
[11:49] <james_w> which takes a -r option
[11:49] <james_w> and creates a tarball for you
[11:49] <asac> can you support legacy support for my config?
[11:50] <james_w> I didn't want to support legacy in that upload, as it would have led to odd behaviour
[11:50] <james_w> but I imagine I can in this upload
[11:50] <asac> james_w: its just the -revision info that i want
[11:50] <asac> i didnt add export-upstream =  in most cases
[11:50] <james_w> why do you want it to be stored in the config file?
[11:50] <asac> james_w: because then the branch is mostly self maintained
[11:50] <asac> i want to commit the revision info right in the tree when i bump changelog
[11:51] <james_w> got it
[11:51] <james_w> seems like a valid use case
[11:51] <asac> great ;)
[11:51] <james_w> let me think about it for a bit
[11:51] <james_w> I want to see if we can make it work even better for you
[11:52] <james_w> would you want it to change the changelog at all?
[11:52] <james_w> not by default it seems
[11:53] <james_w> but perhaps an option to write the revision to the config file and bump the changelog would be nice
[11:53] <asac> james_w: would be ... but its not required.
[11:53] <james_w> sure
[11:53] <asac> james_w: maybe if i do bzr merge
[11:53] <asac> but for debian only trees
[11:53] <asac> i dig the revision info on my own anyway
[11:53] <james_w> I'll get it working for you first, then we can make it better
[11:53] <asac> (its usually not the tip)
[11:54] <james_w> bzr export-upstream --remember-revision -r 246 BRANCH
[11:54] <asac> james_w: i want to publish the revision info
[11:54] <asac> so i would probably need a bzr commit after that?
[11:55] <james_w> yeah
[11:55] <asac> for me the revision is tightly associated with the current tree
[11:55] <asac> so its not somethig i just want locally (like parent branch)
[11:55] <james_w> that would write the revision id to the config file, and also add a new changelog stanza
[11:55] <asac> hmm
[11:55] <james_w> not sure it's the right thing though
[11:55] <asac> james_w: we could do that.
[11:56] <asac> but i usually i just open new changelog upstream revision
[11:56] <asac> and document the revision change in the same commit
[11:56] <asac> like "* new upstream snapshot (revid:xxxx)
[11:56] <james_w> "open new changelog upstream revision" what does that mean?
[11:56] <asac>   - update .bzr-builddeb/default.conf
[11:56] <asac> "
[11:56] <james_w> yeah
[11:56] <asac> james_w: yes, but everybody has his own format for that
[11:57] <asac> if we can standardize that it would be great
[11:57] <james_w> merge-upstream does things like this for you in full source mode, so having it for merge mode may help you
[11:57] <asac> sometimes i say: "new upstream snapshot" ... but on other times i say : "new upstream release xxx"
[11:57] <james_w> but I'll leave all that for later improvements, and fix it for you first
[11:57] <asac> yeah.
[11:57] <asac> just tell me when there is something to test for me ;)
[11:58] <james_w> sure
[11:58] <asac> i can then see how it feels
[11:58] <asac> and complain or cheer ;)
[11:58] <james_w> are you happy to test from bzr?
[11:58] <asac> why not
[11:58] <james_w> k, makes it easier for me :-)
[11:58] <asac> if i can just branch it in .bazaar/plugins
[11:58] <asac> its good
[11:58] <james_w> yeah
[11:58] <asac> do .bazaar/plugins checkouts win over global things?
[11:58] <asac> or does it check for higher version when having conflicting plugins?
[11:58] <asac> (just curious)
[11:58] <james_w> .bazaar/plugins wins
[11:59] <asac> good
[11:59] <asac> so even if its lower
[11:59] <asac> thats the same for mozilla
[11:59] <asac> thought a bit whether it would make sense to chnage that
[11:59] <asac> but probably profile should win
[11:59] <james_w> I'll need an FFe for this, so I'll report a bug later you can make some noise on
[12:00] <asac> james_w: heh. you could even  make bzr bd try export-upstream
[12:00] <asac> when the other download options fail ;)
[12:00] <asac> just an idea
[12:00] <asac> james_w: its  regression bug
[12:00] <asac> not sure if that needs a FFe
[12:00] <asac> ;)
[12:00] <james_w> :-)
[12:01] <asac> but well i can state that in the bug
[12:01] <asac> "all my magic branch wizardry broke" ;)
[12:01] <james_w> perhaps you are right about bd
[12:01] <james_w> having it beat the other options was definitely the wrong thing
[12:01] <asac> yeah. i think woudl be elegant. e.g. factor out export-upstream to its own clean operation and then make use of it
[12:02] <asac> if there is not arball
[12:02] <james_w> however, it can lead to problems anyway
[12:02] <james_w> that's the reason it's gone really
[12:02] <asac> sure. but in most casese you have the archives you will upload to in your sources
[12:02] <asac> if not you have to figure on your own
[12:02] <james_w> it was too easy to shoot yourself in the foot
[12:02] <james_w> I'll consider it though
[12:02] <asac> yeah ;)
[12:02] <asac> the solution was not to add export-upstream = .
[12:02] <asac> to default.conf
[12:03] <asac> and only run --export-upstream if you didnt find a tarball
[12:03] <asac> worked well ;)
[12:03] <james_w> but it also fails in that a -2 upload won't be accepted
[12:04] <james_w> if the .orig.tar.gz was from export-upstream the second time
[12:04] <james_w> it's harder to hit now that it doesn't overwrite
[12:04] <james_w> but it is still an issue
[12:04] <james_w> but anyway, everyone should use full source branches and merge-upstream anyway :-)
[12:05] <asac> hehe
[12:05] <asac> james_w: the main problem is what i had now
[12:05] <asac> james_w: upstream moves branches and then you can trash everything
[12:06] <asac> james_w: so i went back to debian only tree for NM
[12:06] <asac> just sounds more "long-term sustainable"
[12:06] <asac> unfortunately i must admit
[12:06] <james_w> "upstream moves branches"
[12:06] <james_w> what do you mean by that?
[12:06] <asac> yes. NM main branch went to git
[12:06] <asac> and the openvpn branches were moved to their own svn tree
[12:07] <james_w> ah, so all revision ids changed
[12:07] <asac> yes
[12:07] <asac> and the svn -> git migration was a lethal injection obviously
[12:07] <asac> with no proper bzr-git yet
[12:09] <asac> james_w: that reminds me of the git archive issue
[12:10] <asac> james_w: currently i cannot use git archive to produce tarballs
[12:10] <james_w> that one is fixed :-)
[12:10] <asac> because bzr bd sees a file on top
[12:10] <asac> ah good
[12:10] <asac> maybe i didnt see because i downgraded
[12:10] <james_w> yeah
[12:10] <asac> before trying to use that kind of tarball
[12:10] <asac> greawt then ;)
[12:22] <fta> asac, what java plugin is good on amd64? i'm fighting remotely with a dead server and the admin web site in that IBM box needs java. I can't access it from home so i need to setup java remotely on a trusted desktop
[12:24] <asac> fta: i dont think there is much choice
[12:24] <asac> use the latest ice tea thing ...
[12:25] <asac> there is no java plugin with javascript integration though (e.g. oij)
[12:25] <asac> so if the java stuff wants to communicate with website its not going to work on amd64
[12:25] <fta> nm, i figured out how to avoid java
[12:26] <fta> the kernel is spitting insanities in loop
[12:27] <fta> basically, out of memory everywhere, and no way to reclaim anything
[12:48] <asac> fta: hmm so gwibber team build also failed?
[12:48] <fta> yes, jaunty
[12:48] <fta> they silently push python2.6 and python is still 2.5
[12:49] <fta> +ed
[12:50] <fta> i just re-triggered the bot => gwibber_0.9.1~bzr246-0ubuntu1~daily2
[13:30] <fta> lol, bug 31589 :)
[13:30] <fta> no
[13:30] <fta> lol, bug 331589 :)
[13:49] <james_w> asac, fta: do you ever make use of "bzr bd --use-existing"?
[13:50] <fta> nope
[13:50] <fta> what is that?
[13:50] <fta> last bzr regressed? http://paste.ubuntu.com/120589/
[13:51] <james_w> you need to upgrade loom
[13:51] <james_w> the option makes it not extract the upstream tarball again
[13:53] <james_w> just wondering if I have to preserve that
[13:54] <fta> do you mean it's equiv to moving to build-area/foo and doing dpkg-buildpackage -nc ?
[13:54] <asac> james_w: --use-existing? is that like --quick?
[13:54] <asac> that didnt help for me as it somehoe rebuild everything even if i use debuild -nc
[13:55] <asac> if --quick would work that way it would be great
[13:55] <james_w> it deletes debian from the last build directory, then re-exports your branch in to it
[13:55] <james_w> then builds the result
[13:56] <fta> deletes debian = remove the stamps, so it forces a rebuild
[13:56] <james_w> oh, didn't think of that
[13:56] <james_w> I've never really used it myself
[13:57] <james_w> if you don't delete debian it won't work if you delete a file though
[13:57] <fta> indeed
[13:57] <james_w> but that is probably rarer
[13:57] <james_w> what I want to do is make the build-dir default to .. as well
[13:58] <fta> gasp
[13:58] <james_w> but that means using tempdirs to build in, rather than pkg-version directories
[13:58] <fta> that means polluting my branches repository
[13:58] <james_w> how so?
[13:58] <fta> with tons of files i really don't care about
[13:59] <fta> when i need disk space, i just rm -rf build-area
[13:59] <fta> if it's now in .. relative a packaging branch, i will no longer be able to do that
[13:59] <james_w> I said default
[14:00] <fta> i have ~200 branches
[14:00] <james_w> but I don't really see what you mean by "tons of files"
[14:00] <james_w> it would make it work the same way as not using bzr and just calling "debuild"
[14:01] <fta> well, i have my aliases already
[14:01] <fta> bdm = bd --merge --dont-purge --result-dir=../build-area
[14:01] <fta> bdn = bd --native --dont-purge --result-dir=../build-area
[14:01] <fta> ppa = "bd --merge --build-dir=../ppa --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kB6EE20E8'"
[14:01] <fta> ppa2 = "bd --merge --build-dir=../ppa --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sd -kB6EE20E8'"
[14:01] <fta> ppan = "bd --native --build-dir=../ppa --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kB6EE20E8'"
[14:02] <fta> so i don't mind
[14:03] <fta> my bot forces --result-dir too
[14:04] <james_w> why not set "merge" and "native" in the config file so that anyone can build them without figuring that out?
[14:05] <james_w> and the latest version will mean you don't have to use --builder anymore
[14:05] <fta> i don't expect others to build with bzr bd
[14:06] <james_w> "bd --merge --build-dir=../ppa -- -S -sa -kB6EE20E8" will work
[14:06] <fta> and i'm not very in sync with all the new bzr goodies :P
[14:22] <fta> asac, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gwibber
[14:25] <asac> fta: thanks. you could have reused the version btw.
[14:26] <asac> fta: can you ask seb politely if he has some cycles to look at it now?
[14:26] <fta> i wanted but cjwatson asked me to bump it
[14:26] <asac> at least inform him that there is a new
[14:26] <asac> ok
[14:26] <asac> doesnt really matter. its easier for archive admin to spot which to take
[14:26] <asac> if you bump version
[14:26] <asac> ok ... preparing for a call
[14:27] <asac> bb in ~1h
[14:42] <cros13> Hi, there is a patch up that fixes this bug:
[14:42] <cros13> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404314
[15:30] <fta> i'm sick of this crappy sound.
[15:30] <fta> dtchen, do you think my issues with p-a are caused by a crappy driver or crappy h/w ?
[15:31] <BUGabundo> fta: have you tried the workaround?
[15:31] <BUGabundo> to make it speech free or what ever its called?
[15:31] <fta> ?
[15:31] <fta> what is that?
[15:31] <BUGabundo> humm
[15:31] <fta> glitch free?
[15:32] <BUGabundo> there's a mail from crisum and the muson on the lists about it
[15:32] <BUGabundo> yeah that's it
[15:33] <fta> "3 revisions were removed from the branch." (gwibber trunk). gasp, my bot will probably hate that
[15:33] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:33] <BUGabundo> oh I saw that ryan bumped the gw vers
[15:34] <BUGabundo> so its should now be higher
[15:34] <BUGabundo> as you wished
[15:35] <fta> yep, my description was a bit confusingn, 0.9 vs 0.9.1, ryan used 0.9.1 while 0.9 would have made more sense, my bad
[15:35] <fta> -n
[15:35] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:36] <fta> i'm not caching the upstream branch for gwibber, good, my bot will cope with the removal
[15:37] <fta>  /me looking for a better sound card... so many: http://www.rue-montgallet.com/prix/75012/comparer/114/Cartes-son/?i1=698&f1=2759&i2=700&f2=2760&i3=701&f3=&i4=702&f4=&mq=0&pxmin=0&pxmax=0&od=nom&show=1&nbf=4
[15:43] <fta> no "works well with ubuntu" list?
[15:46] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:46] <BUGabundo> did your current got fried yesterday?
[15:47] <fta> no
[15:48] <fta> but i keep having issues on this desktop since p-a entered ubuntu, while on my other desktop and my laptop, it's fine (well, sort of)
[15:48] <asac> keep your eyes open when NM ubuntu2 gets on your system
[15:48] <asac> it might break your carrier detect
[15:49] <asac> escalate to me if you suddenly cannot connect to wired anymore ;)
[15:54] <fta> i don't have the osd notifs, should I?
[15:54] <asac> fta: yes
[15:54] <asac> do you have notify-osd installed?
[15:54] <fta> nope
[15:54] <fta> but i'm up-to-date
[15:54] <asac> fta: install it ;)
[15:54] <asac> maybe you nuked something else
[15:55] <asac> like ubuntu-desktop
[15:55] <asac> ii am not sure how that is supposed to get pulled in
[15:55] <BUGabundo> ahhhhhhh asac? really
[15:55] <BUGabundo> ?
[15:55] <fta> oh right, i no longer have ubuntu-desktop
[15:56] <BUGabundo> I'll have to look at it
[15:56] <BUGabundo> and inform users on +1
[15:56] <BUGabundo> yah I lost ubu-deskt twice now!
[15:56] <asac> yeah. if you removed ubuntu-desktop there is no guaranteey you really track the ubuntu desktop experience
[15:56] <asac> similar if you uninstall firefox package you wont get auto migrated to firefox-3.1
[15:57] <fta> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[15:57] <fta>   gnome2-user-guide restricted-manager restricted-manager-core scrollkeeper
[15:57] <asac> fta: not srue. i think the restricted manager is now called jockey
[15:57] <BUGabundo> asac: but UM -d should make sure its there
[15:57] <asac> might be that its just a normal removal
[15:57] <asac> due to control hints
[15:57] <asac> BUGabundo: i am not sure about that. ask mvo. there might be reason to not pull that in again
[15:57] <BUGabundo> fta: what ever you do, DON'T force anything
[15:57] <BUGabundo> parcial installs suck
[15:57] <asac> i even think so. if you opted out of ubuntu-desktop there is no reason to force it on you gain
[15:58] <BUGabundo> UM should never ofer them
[15:58] <BUGabundo> asac: yeah I have to ask him
[15:58] <fta> BUGabundo: lol, i'm not a noob ;)
[15:58] <BUGabundo> already did, but did not get a reply
[15:58] <asac> partial upgrades are ok
[15:58] <BUGabundo> yestreday
[15:58] <asac> you just shouldnt confirm upgrade if there are a bunch of removals you dont understand ;)
[15:59] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/120629/
[15:59] <fta> too much crap in there
[15:59] <BUGabundo> seems fine to me
[15:59] <BUGabundo> lololol
[15:59] <BUGabundo> how long have you been without U-deskt?
[16:01] <fta> apparently a long time ago
[16:01] <BUGabundo> already got mvo on +1
[16:01] <BUGabundo> trying to get this strait
[16:01] <fta> fta@ix:~ $ zgrep ubuntu-desktop /var/log/dpkg.log*
[16:01] <fta> fta@ix:~ $ L /var/log/dpkg.log* | head -1
[16:01] <fta> -rw-r----- 1 root adm<PHONE_NUMBER>-03-30 15:20 /var/log/dpkg.log.12.gz
[16:01] <fta> fta@ix:~ $
[16:01] <asac> you should go to network-manager ;)
[16:01] <BUGabundo> ehehehehehehehe
[16:02] <fta> so probably more than a year ago
[16:02] <asac> anyway ... justinstall notify-osd  for now;)
[16:02] <asac> folks on +1 should use ubuntu-desktop though
[16:02] <BUGabundo> yeah
[16:02] <BUGabundo> but a few of us lost it
[16:02] <BUGabundo> trying to clear that out with mvo
[16:03] <asac> thats a good time to learn ;)
[16:03] <fta> n-m for an always wired desktop /w fixed ip is useless
[16:03] <BUGabundo> works for me (TM)
[16:03] <BUGabundo> if it discover it's the same network
[16:03] <BUGabundo> avahi magic ?!
[16:03] <fta> i don't need that
[16:04] <fta> i will just cherry pick what i need from the list
[16:04] <BUGabundo> yeah I do that too, when it fails
[16:04] <fta> app-install-data-partner ? hmm
[16:05] <BUGabundo> asac: fta mvo said UM should install ubu-deskt!
[16:06] <asac> then you lost it after upgrading to jaunty ;)
[16:06] <asac> fta probably used apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
[16:06] <BUGabundo> yeah
[16:07] <BUGabundo> he shouldn't
[16:07] <BUGabundo> lol
[16:07] <fta> no, maybe i removed it to prevent n-m from trashing my prefs at each reboot
[16:07] <BUGabundo> "that's not the Recommend way on Ubuntu"
[16:07] <BUGabundo> according to the Wiki
[16:07] <BUGabundo> lol
[16:09] <fta> mobile-broadband-provider-info on my desktop, no thanks
[16:12] <fta> ok, 29 instead of 54
[16:19] <fta> asac, it's not transparent at all and it's not using my prefs
[16:19] <fta> metacity
[16:19] <asac> fta: did you fix the gwibber team build? (me desparately wants the new thing due to annoyance)
[16:20] <asac> fta: yes metacity needs still some fixes.
[16:20] <asac> but it works at least (first it didnt show anything)
[16:20] <asac> fta: metacityy also supports a bit composite ... you can try to enable that
[16:20] <asac> but i guess its still lacking support
[16:21] <asac> fta: ask macslow about his plans
[16:21] <fta> i know, but i don't want composite for my other windows
[16:21] <fta> it's slower for no benefit
[16:21] <asac> yeah. ask him
[16:21] <asac> ;)
[16:22] <fta> i can't read the text, white on black but too small, and it disappears too fast
[16:22] <fta> the time my eyes move and focus on the notif, it's gone
[16:22] <asac> yeah. tell that him ;)
[16:22] <asac> and file bugs
[16:22] <asac> bugs bugs
[16:22] <fta> :)
[16:22] <asac> thats the important part. notify-osd
[16:30] <fta> i wish someone fixes bug 328932 soon
[16:36] <asac> fta: it says its fixed since 13 hours
[16:37] <asac> This bug was fixed in the package libsdl1.2 - 1.2.13-4ubuntu3
[16:37] <fta> really?
[16:37] <asac> Great work Luke! Thanks for fixing it. All games work again on my machine after I installed the update.
[16:37] <asac> yes
[16:37] <asac>   * debian/control:
[16:37] <asac>     - add libglu1-mesa-dev as a build dependency, so SDL gets built with
[16:37] <asac>       OpenGL support (LP: #328932)
[16:37] <asac>     - Fix typo in svn URL (LP: #330457)
[16:38] <fta> unpinning
[16:39] <fta> great
[16:39] <fta> i just have tomboy left unupgradable
[16:41] <asac> yeah
[16:41] <asac> tomboy disappeared from my panel
[16:41] <asac> i think i removed it ;)
[16:41] <asac> oh its back :)
[16:41] <asac> no its normal sticky notes ihave now
[16:41] <asac> let me kill those
[16:42] <asac> tomboy installs with removing libgmime2.2-cil
[16:42] <asac> and instead getting 2.2a-cli
[16:44] <fta> oh, better then, it was removing tons of vital stuff up to yesterday
[16:49] <asac> yeah. probably the build systems are catching up finally from the FF rush
[16:57] <fta> i have plenty of new sounds for events now
[16:59] <fta> I can't disable some of them with the ui
[17:06] <fta> asac, https://edge.launchpad.net/~gwibber-team/+archive/ppa
[17:06] <asac> fta: hehe. yeah i get the drum roll every now and then in ffox 3.2
[17:07] <asac> its a bit irritating
[17:39] <asac> \o/ NM finally found a build slot on amd64
[17:39] <asac> maybe i can still test before leaving for the night
[18:24] <BUGabundo_> asac: ping
[18:38] <BUGabundo_> asac: ping
[18:38] <BUGabundo_> lets see if 3G hands for a while
[18:39]  * BUGabundo_ typing from an eeepc with no light on the keyboard is not easy
[18:42] <fta> back
[18:47] <BUGabundo_> need tips on how to share 3G/UMTS net, via wired
[19:54] <fta> "Karmic Koala", yeahhh, i guessed koala
[22:15] <gnomefreak> asac: did you say that network-manager 0.7.1~rc1-0ubuntu2 is broken for wired connection?
[22:24] <[reed]> fta: hehe
[22:24] <[reed]> fta: Koalas are so cute ;)
[22:25] <gnomefreak> i just read that too
[22:27] <gnomefreak> why do i get a badf feeling about sunbird
[22:29] <gnomefreak> [reed]: are they talking about just dropping lighnting to its own code base or are they talking about stepping back from both
[22:33] <gnomefreak> i had already known lightning wasnt gonna be part of tb3 if it was it would have been done in alpha# but this whole no team for sunbird bothers me
[22:33] <[reed]> well
[22:34] <[reed]> I think Sun's pulled out
[22:34] <[reed]> of a lot of what it was doing
[22:34] <[reed]> which is what is causing this :/
[22:34] <gnomefreak> damn
[22:34] <[reed]> Sun has been killing stuff left and right
[22:34] <[reed]> same for others like IBM
[22:34] <[reed]> just companies in general
[22:35] <gnomefreak> that would be the start of a big rolling downfall assuming it didnt have 50+ companies
[22:36] <[reed]> MoMo is really wanting Lightning for Thunderbird, but they decided the add-on path works better
[22:36] <[reed]> which I can agree with
[22:36] <gnomefreak> [reed]: it would have been nice for the people that like the intergration, for me i hate lightning and stick with sunbird
[22:37] <[reed]> developers welcome
[22:39] <gnomefreak> first i hear daniel martin berend ect... left but daniel says he is still very much a prat of team and he suspects the others are as well
[22:39] <gnomefreak> s/prat/part
[22:43] <gnomefreak> 15+ extensions and he wonders why it crashes :(
[22:44] <gnomefreak> sorry 24 to be exact
[23:02] <VicTheHunter> Hello, please help? When I watch videos with Cheese, or totem-plugin-viewer 2.22.1, the images come out looking interleaved, and the bottom half is columns of solid colors.  How can I fix this?
[23:02] <VicTheHunter> Sometimes, the images are ghosted, or doubled side-by-side.  I notice this also in Firefox.


[00:20] <yigal> How can I can I update keyboard shortcuts after modifying ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml to my liking?
[00:23] <yigal> found a solution http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=17893
[00:26] <yigal> Yes, satisfactory answer pkill/killall xfconfd, which will automatically restart the daemon
[01:24] <cmck193> howdy
[06:07] <Malyndra_Crow> Hello, I need some help. I've completely borked my install and am having to use the live cd to chat
[06:10] <Malyndra_Crow> hellooo?
[06:13] <Malyndra_Crow> Screw this, I'm going back to windows.
[06:38] <baizon> sorry, but it's 8AM in EU so almost everybody is sleeping :(
[12:01] <jost> Is there a XUbuntu alternate installer image?
[12:01] <jost> I want to install XUbuntu on a fakeRaid, and the walkthroughs that the alternative installer should be used for that
[12:07] <krytarik> jost: Only for Xubuntu 12.04 (same for Ubuntu too, btw): http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
[12:07] <jost> krytarik: ok, will try that, and then update
[12:07] <krytarik> Yeah, that'd work too.
[12:26] <nantou> I asked this quite a long time ago: how do I proxifty the whole os?
[12:27] <nantou> can it be done?
[12:32] <koegs> what?
[12:42] <zhaotongxue> hello,everyine
[12:42] <zhaotongxue> everyone
[12:42] <zhaotongxue> sorry
[12:43] <krytarik> !hi | zhaotongxue
[12:44] <zhaotongxue> I want to say how to make my own keyboard on xubuntu,like key down super the same as click application menu?
[12:44] <zhaotongxue> hello
[12:44] <zhaotongxue> nice to meet you
[12:49] <bgardner> zhaotongxue, What you want is to go to Settings->Keyboard and remap (or add a map for) 'xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu'.  See the existing entry associated with Alt-F1 for how this should look.
[12:51] <krytarik> zhaotongxue: Also see here: http://wiki.xfce.org/faq#keyboard ; and for other cases, here: http://docs.xfce.org/faq
[13:03] <krytarik> nantou: Have you already had a look at this?: http://askubuntu.com/questions/150210/how-do-i-set-systemwide-proxy-servers-in-xubuntu-lubuntu-or-ubuntu-studio
[13:11] <nantou> krytarik, will do ,thanks, but, aint it a bit outdated? its for xubuntu 13.04
[13:12] <krytarik> Nope.
[13:13] <bgardner> nantou, I can't vouch for the GTK-specific part of the answer, but I'm on 13.04 and this is how my proxy is setup.
[13:20] <zhaotongxue98> where is the "Appliacations Menu" location?
[13:21] <zhaotongxue98> in 'usr' folder?
[13:22] <zhaotongxue98> please send email to me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:22] <zhaotongxue98> thanks
[13:29] <fabiobik>  hi guys, my internet is incredible slow. i need to refresh two or tree times the page to be completly loaded. Also it happens at chrome, opera
[13:29] <fabiobik> any solution?
[13:32] <torax> does this happen on every OS or just in xubuntu?
[13:38] <fabiobik> anyone to help me please?
[13:39] <krytarik> fabiobik: See above; also, is it wireless or cable?
[13:39] <cfhowlett> fabiobik, answer the qeustion in THIS CHANNEL.  cross posting is just confusing the issue.
[13:39] <fabiobik> krytarik, wireless
[13:39] <fabiobik> i have 3 bars
[13:40] <krytarik> !wifi | fabiobik
[14:11] <omps> hi All
[14:11] <omps> was wondering if there is a way i can stop the X from starting
[14:11] <omps> i am really not looking forward for an X env
[14:16] <krytarik> omps: Please see here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/174312/how-can-i-set-my-ubuntu-12-04-lts-to-boot-to-console-without-gui
[14:26] <omps> thanks
[14:26] <krytarik> Welcome.
[14:29] <omps> thanks it worked
[14:31] <nantou> I am about to edit the environment file to proxify the whole system, can anyone confirm if that file has only one line? PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games"
[14:32] <krytarik> Yup, by default.
[14:33] <nantou> ok, hope not to f**k the system
[14:34] <nantou> how many programs can use gtk3? I dont use rythmbox
[14:35] <nantou> and it doesnt have to be the port 8080 invariably, right?
[14:41] <krytarik> nantou: Nope, whatever port the desired proxy offers; and well, just enter those commands, to be safe.
[14:42] <nantou> krytarik, you are talking about step 2, right? gtk3
[14:42] <krytarik> Yup.
[14:43] <krytarik> The latter part of previous message, that is.
[14:43] <nantou> ok, but It wont be a problem if I change just the port, will it?¿
[14:43] <krytarik> Nope, see the first part of my previous message.
[14:43] <nantou> oik
[14:50] <krytarik> *my previous
[14:54] <nantou> thx krytarik
[14:54] <nantou> ill reboot maletr
[14:54] <krytarik> Welcome.
[14:54] <nantou> later
[14:54] <krytarik> Ok.
[15:36] <SunilJoshi> Hello,I need to acces my functional key (i.e. F1,F2....)without pressing Fn key. how can i do this?
[16:50] <guest-6384On> Xubuntu help! I cleaned installed xubuntu 12.04 which helped a lot with my long time wait of turning on and logging into xubuntu. BUT, I have a broken computer screen, so I'm using a monitor. I went into Settings Manager and went into the monitor thinking I could turn off my computer screen and only use the montior. BUT, I did the opposite and can't use the monitor which means I can't see anything, because my computer is broke
[16:50] <guest-6384On> n. Sooo, I am using my guest log in to talk to you. How can I fix this without clean installing again. I spent hours last night fixing up my new clean install.
[16:52] <[0gb_us]> Have you done anything else with the broken account besides changing the monitor settings?
[16:53] <guest-6384On> No, just changed the monitor settings.
[16:55] <[0gb_us]> Try renaming your user directory while not logged into the account. You might need sudo. Next time you log in, you should have all the default settings.
[16:55] <[0gb_us]> There's probably a cleaner way, but I don't know where that is stored.
[16:55] <guest-6384On> I'm new tihe linux. Please tell me how to do that.
[16:56] <[0gb_us]> WHat's your Xubuntu user name?
[16:56] <guest-6384On> karen
[16:59] <[0gb_us]> First, you're going to need a non-graphical login. Hold control + alt + F1 to get to a terming. Enter your login information, then hit control + alt + F7 to get back here for further instructions.
[16:59] <[0gb_us]> *terminal
[17:01] <guest-6384On> o.k. I went there and put in karen and my password.
[17:01] <guest-6384On> is that right or should I have only put in karen
[17:02] <[0gb_us]> Entering your password was right.
[17:02] <guest-6384On> k
[17:02] <guest-6384On> now what?
[17:03] <[0gb_us]> Go back, and type "mv .config .config.old", then hit enter.
[17:06] <guest-6384On> o.k. I did that. It asked for my password which I gave. Now what?
[17:06] <[0gb_us]> Try logging in as you through the graphical interface, and see if you can use your monitor now.
[17:07] <guest-6384On> k   uhhh I guess I will just get back on this line if I do, right?
[17:07] <[0gb_us]> Right.
[17:13] <guest-7Hjmzj> No, that didn't work. I tried to sign in to my user name karen and the monitor is off. The computer screen I use is broken.
[17:13] <[0gb_us]> Okay, let's pull out the bug guns.
[17:13] <guest-7Hjmzj> ha k
[17:14] <[0gb_us]> Go back to the command line, and type "sudo mv /home/karen /home/keren.old".
[17:14] <[0gb_us]> *karen.old
[17:15] <guest-7Hjmzj> now, there is a space between sudo and mv? and I don't use the quotation marks, right?
[17:15] <[0gb_us]> Right.
[17:15] <guest-7Hjmzj> k
[17:18] <guest-7Hjmzj> k  did that   now what?
[17:18] <[0gb_us]> Now try logging in again to test the monitor.
[17:18] <guest-7Hjmzj> k be right back
[17:23] <guest-GhL0Nv> No, that didn't work either. I am logged in as guest talking to you.
[17:25] <[0gb_us]> Try "sudo ls /home/karen" on the command line, and telling me if you get an error.
[17:25] <guest-GhL0Nv> k
[17:27] <guest-GhL0Nv> yes  it says, "log in incorrect"
[17:28] <[0gb_us]> Okay .... THat's not even the type of error we're looking for. Are you still logged in on the command line?
[17:28] <guest-GhL0Nv> wait  is that an l or a one? sudo one  or sudo l ?
[17:29] <[0gb_us]> L, the letter.
[17:29] <[0gb_us]> But lower case, it's case sensitive.
[17:29] <guest-GhL0Nv> ohh hang on then    Sorry
[17:29] <[0gb_us]> No worries.
[17:30] <guest-GhL0Nv> still says   log in incorrect
[17:30] <[0gb_us]> Are you logged into the command line still? Is it asking you for a user name and password?
[17:31] <guest-GhL0Nv> it only asked me for a password when I typed the command in and then it said log in incorrect and then ready for another command.
[17:33] <[0gb_us]> Try "ls /home/karen", without the sudo.
[17:33] <guest-GhL0Nv> k
[17:35] <guest-GhL0Nv> o.k. that didn't work, BUT I just typed in    karen   and then it asked for my password which i typed in, and something worked. It said, welcome....
[17:36] <guest-GhL0Nv> that didn't change my monitor probably though, right?
[17:36] <[0gb_us]> Okay, I think everything we've been doing has been while logged out, so no effect.
[17:37] <guest-GhL0Nv> ohhh and?
[17:37] <[0gb_us]> Let's try "mv .config .config.old" again. THis time, it should work.
[17:37] <guest-GhL0Nv> k
[17:38] <guest-GhL0Nv> o.k.  looks like maybe something worked. It just went to another command line.
[17:39] <[0gb_us]> Did you hit the wrong F key? F1 through F6 are six different command lines.
[17:40] <guest-GhL0Nv> ummm I
[17:40] <guest-GhL0Nv> I'll try it again.
[17:40] <[0gb_us]> Not what I meant. You said there was a new command line.
[17:40] <guest-GhL0Nv> no, I did it right on F1
[17:41] <[0gb_us]> Okay, try "ls .config".
[17:41] <guest-GhL0Nv> I put in your command in F1  and it took it and made another line for a new command.
[17:41] <[0gb_us]> OH! Got it.
[17:41] <guest-GhL0Nv> k  I'll try that.
[17:44] <guest-GhL0Nv> it says, "no such file or directory".
[17:44] <[0gb_us]> Okay, perfect. Try logging in and testing the monitor.
[17:45] <guest-GhL0Nv> k   so I'm going completely off and turning it back on to check. k?
[17:45] <[0gb_us]> Okay.
[17:49] <Guest26521> YEAH!!!! It worked!!!! I hope all my settings that I put so much time into last night spiffing up my xubuntu 12.04 are still there. You think?  and THANK YOU !!!
[17:50] <Guest26521> OOPS  It was supposed to say YEAH it worked up above!!
[17:50] <[0gb_us]> You said you made no other changes .....
[17:50] <Guest26521> not after I tried to do the monitor thing.
[17:50] <[0gb_us]> THat sort of wipe changes, because I thought you didn't make any.
[17:50] <[0gb_us]> *wiped
[17:52] <Guest26521> ohhhh I'll look into it.   thanks!
[17:52] <[0gb_us]> Best of luck!
[17:52] <Guest26521> Thanks for your time!!!!!!
[17:53] <[0gb_us]> Yeah, no problem. I'm always happy to help people make non-Windows systems work.
[17:57] <[0gb_us]> I've been having an odd issue with the Ubuntu Software Center for about a week. Sometimes, software that should be there isn't, and I accept that. BUt this time, the entry for the software shows up in the list of available software, but when I click the "more info" button, I'm told the software isn't in my software sources.
[17:58] <[0gb_us]> If it's not in my sources, why is it listed? And f it is in my sources, why does it claim it isn't?
[17:59] <TheSheep> maybe you modified the sources but didn't run the update?
[18:00] <[0gb_us]> I didn't modify my sources, at least not intentionally. And I tried running "sudo apt-get update" to fix it, but the issue persists.
[18:02] <TheSheep> what is the program's name?
[18:02] <[0gb_us]> THere are a few, but on is zsnes.
[18:02] <TheSheep> !info zsnes
[18:03] <[0gb_us]> Yeah, that one.
[18:03] <TheSheep> that package is not available for the 64 bit platforms
[18:03] <TheSheep> try snes9x instead
[18:04] <[0gb_us]> Okay, that explains it. THough it shouldn't be listed in the search results on my platform if it isn't available on my platform.
[18:04] <[0gb_us]> Also, since when is a 64-bit system unable to run 32-bit software? This is very odd indeed.
[18:05] <[0gb_us]> "snes9x" is not listed.
[18:05] <[0gb_us]> !info puzzle-moppet
[18:06] <[0gb_us]> !info puzzle-moppet precise
[18:06] <TheSheep> you can /msg the bot
[18:06] <[0gb_us]> Okay, thanks!
[18:07] <TheSheep> you can run 32 bit software, but to install it, you need to specify it (and it will need to pull in all the 32 bit libraries)
[18:08] <[0gb_us]> I'll use another emulator, but for my own education, specify it how?
[18:08] <TheSheep> sudo apt-get install znes:i386 <-- but in this case it still doesn't work
[18:08] <TheSheep> curious
[18:09] <[0gb_us]> Thanks!
[18:09] <TheSheep> you might want to try asking on #ubuntu what is wrong with it
[18:09] <TheSheep> or at #ubuntu-motu
[18:10] <[0gb_us]> Okay. I'll do that.
[19:08] <isank> hi guys!
[19:08] <isank> i want to about a good download manager for my xubuntu
[19:08] <isank> can anyone help me plz
[19:09] <bekks> wget
[19:10] <TheSheep> bekks: you are not very helpful
[19:10] <isank> yes buddy wget is there but i am talking about something in graphical thing
[19:11] <bekks> TheSheep: Because wget cant download things?
[19:11] <TheSheep> isank: the web browsers have them build in since a while
[19:11] <TheSheep> bekks: because it's not a manager
[19:11] <TheSheep> isank: why do you need a separate one?
[19:12] <isank> that i don't need to keep my browser open while downloading or just for downloading
[19:13] <TheSheep> but you would still need to have the manager open, so what's the difference?
[19:13] <isank> TheSheep: But i donot want my browser to be open
[19:14] <[0gb_us]> But you DO want the download manager open? That's the part we don't get.
[19:14] <cc_INC> Wait...do you mean a torrent client or a download manager??
[19:15] <TheSheep> I found fatrat, kget, multiget, steadyflow and uget
[19:16] <TheSheep> but never used any, so can't recommend them
[19:17] <TheSheep> [0gb_us]: I think it's similar to those cases when people really want to have an antivirus and a firewall
[19:17] <TheSheep> [0gb_us]: old habits die hard
[19:17] <cc_INC> :)
[19:17] <[0gb_us]> Ah, I see.
[19:18] <[0gb_us]> I was never a Windows user, so I don't suffer from those. I was an OS X user though. I have to say, Xubuntu is a lot nicer.
[19:20] <cc_INC> I want to introduce Xubuntu to my mom
[19:20] <bekks> cc_INC: "mom, this is ubuntu." "ubuntu, this is mom." :)
[19:20] <[0gb_us]> As do I, but she refuses to consider anything but Windows.
[19:20] <bekks> cc_INC: Did you ask her yet?
[19:20] <cc_INC> She heard the news about Windows XP going EOL in April 2014 and had someone install Windows 7 on her older hardware
[19:20] <[0gb_us]> Event though Windows gives her constant greif ...
[19:21] <bekks> cc_INC: And?
[19:22] <cc_INC> Sometimes making the change is the biggest challenge.
[19:22] <bekks> cc_INC: So you didnt ask her yet.
[19:24] <[0gb_us]> No one in my house besides my mother is even willing to use Windows because of how bad it is. It's both sad and hilarious how the one thing we won't use is the one thing she will.
[19:24] <TheSheep> most of the gried that people get is not from windows itself, but from computers in general, unfortunately -- the little fellows always find a way to take your commands and apply them in a perfectly logical manner to do something completely different than you wanted
[19:24] <cc_INC> Yeah I did propose it to her and at first she was interested, but when I wanted to go and get her box she got stressed out :)
[19:25] <cc_INC> Ehm...should we take this conversation to off-topic?
[19:25] <cc_INC> :)
[19:25] <[0gb_us]> Probably.
[19:25] <TheSheep> cc_INC: yes
[19:25] <bekks> cc_INC: So she said: "Dont do it."
[20:27] <WalterN> hmm
[20:27] <WalterN> how do I map a key to a different key?
[20:28] <[0gb_us]> In what?
[20:28] <WalterN> Xubuntu?
[20:28] <[0gb_us]> Xubuntu? Keys? Does Xubuntu even have keys?
[20:28] <WalterN> what do you mean in what?
[20:29] <[0gb_us]> In what application.
[20:29] <Sysi> xkb or xmodmap
[20:29] <WalterN> I just want to map something like the J key to the N key
[20:29] <WalterN> only not that
[20:29] <[0gb_us]> OH! Keyboard keys.
[20:30] <WalterN> Sysi: which one has shiny buttons to click on? XD
[20:31] <Sysi> I doubt a bit there is something like that
[20:31] <WalterN> aww
[20:33] <WalterN> how does xcb work?
[20:33] <WalterN> erm
[20:33] <WalterN> xkb?
[20:34] <Sysi> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XKB
[20:39] <WalterN> herm
[20:55] <WalterN> how do I find out what a button is?
[20:56] <GridCube> hover it
[20:56] <WalterN> ..?
[20:56] <GridCube> place your mouse over it and wait for the toolpit to pop
[20:56] <Sysi> xew
[20:57] <Sysi> it'll tell the keycode
[20:57] <WalterN> I have a logitech G500 mouse, and one of the buttons on it...
[20:57] <GridCube> oh
[20:57] <GridCube> jajaja
[20:58] <WalterN> well, I'm not sure what it is...
[20:58] <GridCube> you can map it to what ever you need i think
[20:58] <Unit193> (xev, you mean.)
[20:59] <Sysi> (oh right)
[20:59] <WalterN> I want to use it for push to talk in teamspeak, but I cant do it... its like the button does not exist or something
[21:03] <GridCube> WalterN, http://uwot.eu/blog/2013/05/logitech-g500-and-linux/
[21:05] <WalterN> "So what I suggest is plug G500 in a physical Windows machine..." except I dont have windows
[21:27] <WalterN> http://www.penguinunitedforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2617
[21:29] <WalterN> trying to figure out what that button is
[21:29] <WalterN> and how to make it usable