[00:02] <eagles0513875_> humm have lots of things to try lol
[00:02] <ikonia> eagles0513875_: please keep in mind you have to actually KNOW what you are writing
[00:02] <ikonia> this means not making things up, making writing a document for "you"
[00:02] <eagles0513875_> ikonia: i know.
[00:02] <ikonia> this means writing a document that other people can use, explains the situation etc
[00:02] <knome> "To edit the grub2 config, bacon eggs and tomato."
[00:03] <ikonia> eagles0513875_: this also means not copying and pasting things from other sites/documents
[00:03] <eagles0513875_> understood
[00:04] <belkinsa> And I sent the e-mail to the team and three others.
[00:05] <eagles0513875_> im not seeing any tags on any of the pages
[00:07] <pleia2> eagles0513875_: add them :)
[00:07] <eagles0513875_> pleia2:  belkinsa  wasnt it agreed to have the versions on each page?
[00:07] <belkinsa> I don't remember.
[00:07] <pleia2> no, too much work + maintenace burden
[00:07] <eagles0513875_> ok
[00:07] <pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag this lists the tags, so when you see something that a tag, please add it
[00:08] <pleia2> s/something that/something that needs a tag
[00:09] <eagles0513875_> :)
[00:09] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildingSoftwareReceipts <-- title doesnt make much sense receipts??
[00:09] <eagles0513875_> and the title of that page all together doesnt make much sense
[00:11] <knome> eagles0513875_, are you familiar with the content/issue at hand?
[00:12] <eagles0513875_> knome: not quite please enlighten me
[00:12] <knome> eagles0513875_, that's the point.
[00:12] <knome> eagles0513875_, if you don't know anything about what the page concerning, don't touch it
[00:12] <eagles0513875_> i wont
[00:13] <knome> to put it otherwise, calling them "package recipes" makes sense for those who understand that area
[00:13] <eagles0513875_> but on the main contents page it says building software
[00:13] <eagles0513875_> and reading that i think compiling from source
[00:14] <knome> if you don't understand something that is on the wiki, it doesn't mean it's wrong
[00:15] <ikonia> a good example of this is the postfix docs
[00:15] <eagles0513875_> what bout them
[00:15] <ikonia> you argued they where wrong for weeks, but it was your lack of understanding of how an MTA works that was the problem, not the docs
[00:17] <eagles0513875_> ikonia: well now looking at them and seeing the logs i see alot of warnings about depreciated settings etc in 12.04
[00:17] <eagles0513875_> im not going to argue this
[00:18] <ikonia> right, warnings you ignored and copied blindly
[00:18] <ikonia> so again - you're lack of understanding, not the documentation
[00:18] <ikonia> something that didn't need fixing
[00:18] <belkinsa> IF it's not broke, don't fix it, eagles0513875_
[00:19] <knome> or if you don't understand it.
[00:19] <ikonia> if you don't know if it's broke because you don't understand it - don't touch it
[00:19] <belkinsa> Sorry for butting in.
[00:19] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: you are fine
[00:19] <ikonia> not at all, someone has to say it
[00:19] <belkinsa> Heh.
[00:26] <belkinsa> ikonia, mind if I PM you?
[00:26] <ikonia> no problem
[00:28] <ikonia> always welcome
[00:32] <belkinsa> knome and pleia2: ping.
[00:32] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: pleia2  = work call
[00:32] <knome> belkinsa, yes?
[00:33] <belkinsa> Oh duh.
[00:33] <belkinsa> knome and ikonia, mind if we have a PM together in another room?
[00:33] <knome> i can do that
[00:37] <belkinsa> Sent you an invite, knome.
[01:10]  * knome sits back on the comfy chair on the corner
[01:10] <belkinsa> knome, thank you for doing that with ikonia and me.
[01:10] <knome> no problem!
[01:12] <belkinsa> ikonia, I shall.
[03:30] <julianofischer> Hi my friends, my name is Juliano and I work with the Brazilian Doc Team, I hope to appear here frequently
[03:30] <pleia2> welcome julianofischer
[03:31] <julianofischer> thank you, pleia2
[03:50] <julianofischer> Someone can tell me when the 14.04 manual will be released for translation? (actually I do not know if already there is a 14.04 manual)
[03:53] <pleia2> julianofischer: from ubuntu-manual.org ?
[03:54] <pleia2> julianofischer: you want #ubuntu-manual for that, we're responsible for the documentation that's shipped with Ubuntu, available at help.ubuntu.com
[03:54] <pleia2> March 20th is our documentation freeze, once we prepare the packages (typically takes a few days) it becomes open for translators
[03:54] <pleia2> doh
[06:15] <dsmythies> pleias2: Time between documentation string freeze and ready for translation is actually now very short. Serverguide is a matter of hours, and most of that is launchpad automated stuff delays, which are much much shorter than they used to be. Desktop help is a little longer and also dependent on someone with upload rights. Still should not be worse than overnight.
[06:23] <pleia2> dsmythies: ah, good to know! thanks :)
[21:34] <eagles0513875_> hey guys
[21:38] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: ping
[21:38] <belkinsa> eagles0513875_, pong.
[21:39] <eagles0513875_> anyone else around care to discuss a section title on the community help wiki
[21:39] <knome> eagles0513875_, why don't you just ask?
[21:39] <belkinsa> I know that needs to be changed to that, if it already hasn't.
[21:39] <knome> (the real question, that is)
[21:40] <eagles0513875_> basically i understood what the section entitled building software does. basically its for web based software and flash based animated software and eaccelerate is. Wouldnt a better title be building web based software?
[21:41] <knome> care to point us to the page?
[21:41] <eagles0513875_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community under software it says building software
[21:42] <eagles0513875_> if you click on it it tells you how to use eaccelerate and build flash based apps
[21:42] <belkinsa> Look, if it's not broke, DON'T fix it.
[21:42] <knome> i guess the title could be better
[21:42] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: agreed but i feel the name is a bit misleading
[21:42] <eagles0513875_> what im trying to say
[21:43] <eagles0513875_> when i see building software
[21:43] <belkinsa> Oh, there never mind.
[21:43] <eagles0513875_> i would expect a how to on how to compile from source
[21:44] <knome> i would merge that page in the "applications" subsection "programming" or "servers/web", looking which one has more similar items
[21:45] <knome> i guess the latter.
[21:45] <knome> eagles0513875_, will you do that?
[21:45] <eagles0513875_> knome: i would feel better if someone else did it as Im not versed with details of other sections
[21:45] <knome> eagles0513875_, i would rather see you do it.
[21:46] <eagles0513875_> but i still think more then anythign building software can stay there and we have how to's on how to compile various pieces of software from source
[21:46] <eagles0513875_> knome: i will do it but not tonight
[21:46] <knome> it's not a big deal, put eaccelerator under "web servers", and the other one under "web applications"
[21:46] <knome> when those are moved, the section on the frontpage can go
[21:46] <knome> eagles0513875_, feel like procrastinating there, aye?
[21:46] <knome> it's a 2 minute fix
[21:47] <eagles0513875_> ok im doing it now
[21:47] <knome> i cheated.
[21:47] <knome> 1 minute...
[21:47] <knome> thanks ;)
[21:49] <eagles0513875_> lol
[21:49] <eagles0513875_> how do you move the pages lol
[21:50] <knome> you don't.
[21:50] <knome> rather move the content.
[21:51] <belkinsa> Or rename the page
[21:51] <eagles0513875_> i was thinking of simply renaming the page
[21:51] <eagles0513875_> building web applications
[21:51] <knome> in this case, since content needs to be merged anyway, moving or deleting doesn't make sense
[21:52] <eagles0513875_> ok
[21:52] <knome> eagles0513875_, nope, that's not what i said
[21:53] <pleia2> we don't really like deleting/renaming unless there is a very good reason for it because it breaks links for folks who previously linked to pages, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> pleia2: what do you think about the building software section
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> its a bit mis leading imho
[21:54] <pleia2> I'm at work now, don't have time to look at it right now
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> ok
[21:55] <knome> eagles0513875_, i've told you what i think about it, and it's a trivial thing really
[21:55] <eagles0513875_> ok
[21:56] <knome> i'll take care of the rest when you have merged the content
[21:56] <eagles0513875_> ok
[21:56] <eagles0513875_> let me get to a point here at work where i can focus on it
[21:57] <knome> sure
[23:25] <knome> eagles0513875_, hard time finding a spot?
[23:26] <eagles0513875_> knome: sadly yes :(
[23:26] <eagles0513875_> problems as usual :(
[23:26] <knome> ok, let's do it when you have time then,
[23:26] <eagles0513875_> dunno what time zone you are in
[23:26] <eagles0513875_> but im in central europe so i will be available when i wake in the morning
[23:27] <knome> don't worry, just ping me when you're around and i'll reply if i am
[23:27] <eagles0513875_> ok nights at work are never the best for me :(
[23:28] <knome> i understand. there's no hurry in fixing it
[23:30] <eagles0513875_> knome: i emailed myself so :) i dont forget
[23:30] <knome> worksforme


[01:41] <Espreon> Chinese... curry.
[01:41] <Espreon> ... this is new to me.
[01:42] <Espreon> I guess that's what... "Anglicized" Chinese is like.
[01:42] <Espreon> Americanized Chinese puts A LOT of emphasis on sauces.
[01:43] <Espreon> ...


[06:20] <bryce_> heya kenvandine_wk
[07:16] <huats> morning everyone
[08:16] <pitti> Good morning
[08:19] <seb128> good morning everybody
[08:22]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:22]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:22] <seb128> how are you today?
[08:23] <pitti> bit tired, but great! looking forward to the release
[08:23] <pitti> I'll pre-review all the SRUs this morning
[08:24] <pitti> so that I can let them in quickly after the release
[08:24] <seb128> "all", that's going to be a busy morning ;-)
[08:25] <pitti> they keep coming, yes
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i've done the tracker sru changes now
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> i haven't put any test cases on any of the bug reports yet though
[08:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: great! directly into the tracker/ubuntu branch, of one of your's?
[08:34] <chrisccoulson> the changes are in my own branch (i can't upload in to the ubuntu branch): https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/tracker/jaunty-sru
[09:02] <asac> hey
[09:03] <mvo> asac: hey! re bug #363798 - can you just add ?section=universe to ubufox?
[09:03] <mvo> asac: or is this a lot of work
[09:03] <asac> mvo: well. the problem is the same. i have a script that generates those sections from apt
[09:04] <asac> mvo: not sure how i can figure that universe is a requirement for flashplugin
[09:04] <asac> i use multiverse
[09:05] <asac> mvo: so what we currently use is apt:flashplugin-installer?section=multiverse
[09:05] <asac> mvo: can i just use:
[09:05] <asac> apt:flashplugin-installer?section=multiverse&section=universe ?
[09:05] <asac> i somehow doubt it ;)
[09:06] <asac> if that works i can add a hack
[09:07] <mvo> asac: apt:flashplugin-installer?section=universe?section=multiverse should work
[09:07] <mvo> give me a sec, I test it
[09:07] <asac> mvo: thats not really url syntax
[09:07] <asac> mvo: & is the way to add multiple parameters ;)
[09:23] <rickspencer3> pitti: asac: seb128: Riddell: good morning
[09:23] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[09:24] <rickspencer3> pitti: how did you sleep :) ?
[09:24] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[09:24] <pitti> rickspencer3: pretty good actually, just went to bed a little lalte
[09:24] <pitti> lalte
[09:24] <pitti> late
[09:24] <pitti> (gosh)
[09:24] <rickspencer3> everything looks locked and loaded, great job you guys
[09:26] <seb128> ;-)
[09:27] <davmor2> Congratulations Everybody and here's to the next release
[09:28] <mvo> asac: lets says its exploting a rather simple parser
[09:29] <asac> hi rickspencer3
[09:29] <asac> mvo: so the apturl above works?
[09:30] <mvo> asac: yes
[09:31] <mvo> asac: the parser is a bit simple, so this works kinf of by accident, I fixed it now to accept proper url syntax
[09:32] <asac> mvo: great. you tested it on a livecd?
[09:32] <mvo> asac: not yet, I can do that now (sec)
[09:32] <asac> mvo: please double check. i can roll that to the webservice which would fix it for all livecds ;)
[09:32] <asac> (kind of neat that i can still fix something ;))
[09:32] <mvo> asac: neat - so no sru needed
[09:33] <mvo> asac: its booting, I let you know
[09:33] <asac> mvo: not for the webservice hack. in the long run synaptich should know to enable that i think
[09:33]  * mvo hugs asac
[09:33] <asac> but thats karmic
[09:33]  * asac hugs mvo
[09:34] <asac> mvo: dont need to click on it in the browser. just running apturl "apt:..." from command line is what ubufox does
[09:35] <mvo> asac: sure, I had no intention of doing anything else :)
[09:40] <mvo> asac: the above line works on the live-cd
[09:41] <asac> great
[09:43] <asac> mvo: i guess i can also put universe last?
[09:44] <asac> e.g. section=multiverse?section=universe
[09:45] <mvo> asac: yes, order should not matter
[09:46] <mvo> asac: hm, but let me double check
[09:46] <asac> mvo: http://pastebin.com/f4bb9e34c
[09:46]  * mvo is in extra-carful mode
[09:46] <asac> thats appreciated ;)
[09:46] <mvo> (except for the typos)
[09:46] <asac> mvo: you could also check whether i managed to do the python above badly ;)
[09:46] <asac> (by looking)
[09:49] <mvo> asac: the diff looks fine to me
[09:50] <asac> mvo: thanks. can you do a fresh boot on livecd so you can verify in a minute?
[09:50] <mvo> asac: all good, the ordering you suggest is fine
[09:50] <mvo> asac: just did that
[09:51] <asac> mvo: ok. please go to video.google.com
[09:51] <asac> and try the missing plugins ...
[09:55] <mvo> asac: hm, on youtube I just get the link to the adobe website
[09:55] <Riddell> morning rickspencer3
[09:55] <asac> mvo: i didnt say youtube ;)
[09:55] <asac> video.google.com
[09:56] <mvo> asac: yes, yes, but that directed me to youtube ;) - now I got a different one
[09:56] <asac> mvo: so video.google.com directs you to youtube now ... what a shame
[09:57] <asac> maybe they do that for germans?
[09:57] <asac> ;)
[09:57] <mvo> asac: I guess it was me clicking on some link ...
[09:57] <asac> thought you are in extra-careful mode ;)
[09:57] <asac> accidential clicks dont sound that careful ;)
[09:57] <asac> jk
[09:57] <mvo> I click on any link in the livecd :)
[09:58] <asac> you would be a good addition to our firefox security QA ;)
[09:58] <mvo> asac: nice, worked fine - I had to restart FF though
[09:58] <mvo> haha
[09:58] <asac> yeah restarting ff is currently needed. havent tracked down where in firefox this broke somewhere between 3.0 and 3.0.9
[09:59] <mvo> ok
[10:00] <asac> fix released! yay
[10:01] <asac> updated bug accordingly
[10:02] <asac> mvo: hmm. is that syntax supported by apturl since hardy?
[10:02] <asac> otherwise i would have to make this jaunty exclusive
[10:03] <mvo> asac: I think it is, let me test
[10:08] <mvo> asac: the hardy version has a bug that shows the enable-component dialog twice, otherwise it works fine
[10:08] <asac> mvo: ok. probably that wont show up twice on installs that already have univers?
[10:08] <asac> e.g. on real installs?
[10:09] <asac> if so thats fine because at least it also fixes live cd there
[10:12] <mvo> asac: not sure for hardy, but for jaunty it should detect that and not show the dialog at all (hardy might be buggy, not sure)
[10:15] <asac> ok
[10:18] <asac> mvo: we should verify that for intrepid/hardy after the dust has settled
[10:18] <asac> otherwise those users will see a regression now
[10:18] <asac> if not its an improvement as previously they couldnt install flash on livecd
[10:35] <seb128> ok, seems to be back normally
[10:42] <seb128> mvo: apt is displaying misleading advices ;-)
[10:44] <seb128> mvo: "W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems" for a GPG key no being available
[10:52] <mvo> seb128: right
[10:54] <seb128> update-manager and synaptic also display ugly warnings
[10:54] <seb128> that is all very user unfriendly
[10:54] <seb128> I'm not even sure how to fix that, I guess I've to import the key by some way
[10:54] <seb128> I don't expect users to understand that though
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: hm, the jaunty-proposed gnome-applets SRU refers to bug 77263, but that says it's already fixed
[11:01] <mvo> seb128: so the user added a external repo to get the error?
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: ups, I've been closing GNOME bugs which were "fix commited" a bit too quickly apparently for this one
[11:01] <mvo> seb128: what should it do then, gpg --recvy-key ?
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: ok, that should be jaunty/fix committed then?
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: it was on the "fixed in 2.26" list
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: right
[11:02] <pitti> 2.26.1 then, I assume
[11:02] <seb128> yes
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: ok, changing; thanks
[11:02] <seb128> thanks
[11:02] <seb128> mvo: it's ddebs.ubuntu.com there
[11:03] <seb128> mvo: not sure what it should do but stop displaying ugly warning without a clue on what the user need to do ;-)
[11:03] <pitti> it could try fetching the pubkey from keyring.ubuntu.com
[11:03] <seb128> mvo: I guess that's the eternal debate on how much you want to annoy users about the security things they don't understand
[11:04] <mvo> true, the idea of pitti is good
[11:04] <seb128> mvo: that's similar to the "invalid certificate" page in firefox which annoys lot of users
[11:04] <pitti> of course integrity != trust, but at least we'd get the integrity bit automatically
[11:04] <mvo> if we ensure we only put trusted keys there, we should be fine
[11:04] <pitti> the trust bit is "the user added the repo"
[11:04] <seb128> right
[11:04] <mvo> seb128: yes, its a similar problem
[11:04] <seb128> we got quite some users confused by this one
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: but unlike the ffox certs, we can do better here, since we control the archives
[11:04] <seb128> we have a stock reply pointing the wiki page on how to get a backtrace
[11:05] <pitti> we know how to fetch PPA keys, and we know how to fetch the ddebs key
[11:05] <seb128> and quite some users come back saying "I get those warning when trying to install your debug package what's going on"
[11:05] <seb128> pitti: indeed
[11:05] <pitti> so ideally, apt would auto-fetch those, and simply refuse at all to download packages/indexes if the signature is wrong
[11:05] <seb128> mvo: do you want a bug about that? maybe there is already one?
[11:06] <pitti> then we'd get the integrity automatically, and we'd actually increase security AFAICS
[11:06] <pitti> or am I missing something?
[11:06] <seb128> pitti: that seems to make sense to me
[11:06] <mvo> pitti: where its wrong or where its missing?
[11:07] <pitti> mvo: where it's missing
[11:07] <mvo> (if missing,that would annoy repos like mediaubuntu quite a bit)
[11:07] <pitti> mvo: if you have the pubkey in the apt keyring, and the sig doesn't validate, that's a bad case, right?
[11:07] <mvo> unless we add their keys too
[11:07] <pitti> so that should just refuse with an error message
[11:07] <mvo> it does
[11:07] <pitti> for missing -> try to fetch the key
[11:07] <pitti> if you don't find it, continue to spit out the warning, I think
[11:07] <pitti> but if you find it, use it to verify
[11:08] <mvo> makes me wonder why we do not put them into the ubuntu-archive-keyring package in the first place
[11:08] <mvo> its less flexible of course
[11:08] <pitti> mvo: well, we can for ddebs, but not for the PPAs, since they come and go?
[11:08] <mvo> the keys for ddebs
[11:08] <mvo> right, less flexible but possible now
[11:08] <mvo> (without adding any code)
[11:08] <pitti> right, ddeb key is pretty static
[11:08] <mvo> it sounds like for ddebs at least we should do that
[11:09] <pitti> *nod*
[11:09] <pitti> but some automagic for PPAs would rock as well
[11:09]  * mvo prepares a update
[11:09] <mvo> agreed
[11:09]  * pitti hugs mvo
[11:10]  * mvo hugs pitti and seb128 and goes for lunch
[11:10]  * seb128 hugs pitti and mvo
[11:10] <seb128> hum lunch
[11:10] <seb128> mvo: you are having a late lunch today! ;-)
[11:11] <pitti> late? it's barely 12 o'clock..
[11:14] <seb128> pitti: right, but mvo is having lunch a 12 o'clock usually ;-)
[11:15] <pitti> mvo: rascal's crying, eh? :-)
[11:16]  * seb128 pushes extra srus the pitti way
[11:16] <pitti> bwah, can't keep up
[11:16] <seb128> pitti: don't worry I'm almost done with srus for the week, I just did one today
[11:16] <pitti> I'm 3/4 through the current queue
[11:16] <seb128> pitti: there is not too many 2.26.1 tarballs with interesting fixes we didn't get
[11:16]  * seb128 hugs pitti, good job!
[11:16] <pitti> my sru.sh script is growing :)
[11:16]  * pitti pats his new queuediff tool
[11:17] <seb128> I don't expect spending too much time on sru this cycle
[11:17] <seb128> GNOME is good quality in jaunty stock
[11:17] <pitti> yeah, we'll have plenty of stuff to do in karmic
[11:17] <seb128> and I expect karmic to be a busy cycle so better to start early
[11:17] <pitti> yeah, I already prepared some karmic uploads in bzr, too :)
[11:17] <tofu_logic> is there an eta on when jaunty is going live?
[11:17] <seb128> today
[11:17] <pitti> tofu_logic: somewhere around 1200 UTC
[11:18] <tofu_logic> wonderful, I'll be sure to schedule an update around that time; thank you
[11:18] <seb128> you should better start now
[11:18] <seb128> things will not change and you can avoid the server hit ;-)
[11:19] <tofu_logic> hah alright, thank for the tip :)
[11:19] <pitti> (and please use a local mirror)
[11:19] <tofu_logic> but of course
[11:19] <pitti> mvo: rejecting your notification-daemon upload, LP: #1312277 doesn't exist; please reupload with fixed bug number
[11:20] <seb128> over a million bugs? not here yet!
[11:20] <pitti> mvo: please also open/link to a bug for the --as-needed, since that will change dependencies, etc.?
[11:21] <pitti> seb128: we'll become millionaires, don't worry ;)
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: the evince upload looks weird, the debdiff removes the 2.26.0-0ubuntu1 block from the changelog
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: can you please reupload?
[11:23] <seb128> urg
[11:23] <seb128> pitti: I bet bzr was outdated, thanks for spotting
[11:23]  * pitti gently reminds seb128 to add jaunty tasks for SRUs
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: do you want jaunty tasks for each bug fixed or only one?
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: I've at least one jaunty task by upload I think
[11:24] <pitti> all which are referenced in the changelog
[11:24] <seb128> I didn't bother adding for each bug though
[11:24] <seb128> ok, will do that
[11:25] <pitti> and usually we do _not_ need the ones which say "please sponsor"
[11:25] <pitti> since there's nothing to verify on those
[11:25] <pitti> just the actual bugs
[11:25] <seb128> right, the upload was aimed to jaunty but late for the freeze
[11:25] <pitti> don't worry, I'm fixing them up during review, just mentioning it
[11:25] <seb128> so I uploaded as it as an update
[11:25] <pitti> that's fine, it doesn't hurt to have the sponsoring bugs in the changelog
[11:25] <pitti> just saying that those don't need jaunty tasks/ubuntu-sru sub'ed, etc.
[11:27] <seb128> right
[11:33] <seb128> pitti: evince reuploaded that was just the changelog update which was not in bzr
[11:34] <pitti> seb128: merci
[11:36] <seb128> pitti: btw lool submitted a gvfs crash using apport yesterday
[11:36] <seb128> pitti: which got tagged need-armel-retrace
[11:36] <lool> Under armel  ;-)
[11:36] <seb128> pitti: do you think we should just tag for archs which have a retracer?
[11:36] <lool> Actually I wonder whether I got this crash from the broken SD card
[11:37] <seb128> pitti: or should we keep those tags in case we get a retracer for the arch one day and to make easy to list crashes on this architecture?
[11:37] <seb128> hey Keybuk
[11:37] <seb128> Keybuk: did you figure if launchpad was supposed to send emails about private bugs yesterday?
[11:38] <Keybuk_> it doesn't
[11:38] <seb128> I know it doesn't, but is that a bug or a design decision? ie did you ask a launchpad guy?
[11:39] <seb128> I would be interested to get email notification for those for the packages I'm triaging
[11:40] <asac> bugzilla sends out mails for security flagged bugs ... it was discussed and is somehow a bug because of security concerns. one idea was to send a mail with just the info that new content is available - but that isnt really nice either.
[11:40] <asac> but probably would be  good compromise - maybe opt-in
[11:40] <seb128> right
[11:40] <seb128> and security != private
[11:40] <seb128> launchpad has different flag for those at least
[11:41] <asac> yeah well. its somehow the same
[11:41] <asac> or not. i think security doesnt make it private
[11:41] <asac> "security flagged bugs" -> i ment private with that ;)
[11:41] <seb128> ideally crashes would not go in the bug tracker directly
[11:41] <seb128> that would makes much less noise and make things easier
[11:42] <asac> i never thought of that :-P
[11:42] <asac> if we would figure how to automatically upload our symbols to mozilla, i would disable launchpad all-together
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: well, I'd keep the tags, since it's still interesting to find them
[11:43] <seb128> right, my though too
[11:44] <pitti> lool: do we have an armel porter box/emulator where we could run the retracer?
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: email> hm, wasn't one of your major requirements back then to *not* get flooded with bug mail for crashes/
[11:44] <pitti> ?
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: new evince upload has the same problem
[11:46] <seb128> pitti: gni? are you sure
[11:47] <lool> pitti: rimu.canonical.com is the porter box
[11:48] <lool> pitti: I think it could be used for that, but check with IS
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: let me look closer
[11:48] <seb128> I just debdiffed the versions locally and I don't see that, or I've been stupid and uploaded the wrong version but I don't think so
[11:48] <pitti> might be a bug in queuediff
[11:48] <seb128> retracers are quite some work to maintain
[11:48] <seb128> we have 2 armel apport-crash bugs so far
[11:49] <seb128> I would not bother if we don't receive a higher number of those
[11:49] <pitti> just pondering the possibility, yes
[11:51] <pitti> seb128: indeed, nevermind; queuediff got the older version for some reason
[11:51] <seb128> pitti: ok thanks
[11:58] <mvo> seb128, pitti: yeah, the little one likes to have her lunch early :)
[11:58] <mvo> pitti: re notification-daemon> sorry for the incorrect bugnumber, fixing that now
[11:58] <pitti> mvo: danke
[12:16] <asac> mvo:
[12:16] <asac> 13:11 < gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/644059 is from clean install around Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:47:46 -0400
[12:16] <asac> 13:11  * gnomefreak doesnt see security in there
[12:17] <asac> didnt we add -security and -update earlier than that?
[12:17] <asac> or are you the wrong to ask?
[12:17] <mvo> asac: I'm the wrong one to ask
[12:17] <mvo> asac: try #ubuntu-installer
[12:18] <mvo> asac: but thats definitely a serious thing if generally true :(
[12:18] <mvo> asac: alternative install? or desktop install?
[12:20] <mvo> gnomefreak: ---^ ?
[12:20] <gnomefreak> mnemo: its a clean install
[12:20] <gnomefreak> opps
[12:20] <gnomefreak> mvo ^^
[12:21] <mvo> gnomefreak: desktop cd ? alternate cd ? or dvd :) ?
[12:21] <gnomefreak> mvo: desktop cd
[12:21] <gnomefreak> as of april 11th
[12:21] <mvo> gnomefreak: thanks, let me see if I can reproduce that
[12:22] <gnomefreak> mvo: thanks, maybe it was that daily?
[12:22] <mvo> possible, still better to double check
[12:24] <mvo> gnomefreak: the install was with network working?
[12:24] <gnomefreak> mvo: yes
[12:25] <mvo> thanks
[12:54] <seb128> pitti: oh, already accepting srus today? ;-)
[13:06] <pitti> seb128: yes, cleared with Steve
[13:06] <pitti> seb128: sorry, was at lunch
[13:07] <seb128> pitti: I just came back from lunch too
[13:07] <seb128> pitti: ok good ;-)
[13:07] <seb128> so let's clear jaunty updates today and tomorrow and start on karmic work next week ;-)
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 seems keen ;)
[13:09] <seb128> yeah
[13:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is bug 360399 a regression from intrepid? IOW, should it be SRUed?
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - intrepid had an evolution plugin, but we dropped the old plugin in favour of the new module in jaunty, but didn't install all the necessary files to make it work
[13:28] <pitti> so it is a regression?
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> it's a regression in the sense that it no longer indexes evolution mails
[13:29] <pitti> okay, thanks
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> that said, i've yet to see it index my mails even with the module installed correctly
[13:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, if it doesn't work yet, it shouldn't be in the jaunty-sru branch
[13:31] <chrisccoulson> i can remove it. but it might work for other people, it could be just that i'm not leaving it long enough. i keep having to reindex to test out this fix for the corruption notification
[13:31] <pitti> ok
[13:31] <pitti> your call, I think
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> i can take it out, but i'll have to do that this evening. in the meantime, i could try and work out why it doesn't work for me
[13:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I leave it for some more maturation then
[13:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: please ping me when you are happy with it, then I'll merge and upload
[13:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no problem. did you review the patch that removes the notification?
[13:34] <pitti> at it
[13:35] <pitti> chrisccoulson: looks okay to me
[13:36] <didrocks> seb128: do you need some help so that I can transform all my updates in SRU (I see you made it for one: gnome-applets)?
[13:37] <seb128> didrocks: I'm not sure the other ones are worth sru uploads
[13:37] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks:)
[13:37] <seb128> didrocks: if you feel that some are you can do the sru work otherwise we will upload to karmic
[13:37] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks, you rock
[13:37] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I will give it a look tomorrow
[13:38] <seb128> didrocks: thanks
[14:05] <pedro_> happy birthday asac!
[14:06] <seb128> asac: happy birthday!
[14:08] <kenvandine_wk> asac: wow... your birthday is on jaunty release day :)  happy birthday and happy release :-D
[14:08] <kenvandine_wk>  -release-party is crazy!
[14:22] <asac> thanks all!
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[14:23] <asac> yes its quite a special moment for me having birthday on release day
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> asac: today can be all about you... not jaunty :)
[14:27]  * mvo sends asac a virtual cup of tea
[15:29] <seb128> gnagnagna
[15:30] <seb128> why doesn't dgettext(domain,string) work
[15:30] <pitti> seb128: it should?
[15:30] <seb128> pitti: how do I ask for a translation of string which is in domain then?
[15:31] <seb128> 	    value = dgettext("libgweather-locations",value);
[15:31] <pitti> well, with exactly that
[15:31] <seb128> is what libgweather do
[15:31] <seb128> value = "London"
[15:31] <seb128> and it opens /usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/libgweather-locations.mo
[15:31] <seb128> according to strace
[15:31] <seb128> which has
[15:31] <seb128> msgid "London"
[15:31] <seb128> msgstr "Londres"
[15:31] <seb128> I've tried to add a setlocale() call before the dgettext one but same difference
[15:33] <pitti> $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'Argentina')"
[15:33] <pitti> Argentinien
[15:33] <pitti> (for de_DE.UTF-8)
[15:33] <seb128> $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'London')"
[15:33] <seb128> London
[15:33] <seb128> it was for Argentina
[15:33] <pitti> indeed I had expected to need setlocale(), but apparently I don't
[15:33] <seb128> it works for Argentina
[15:33] <pitti> oh
[15:33] <pitti> seb128: I used that, because London in German is "London"
[15:34]  * pitti installs french
[15:34] <seb128> pitti: try Barcelona?
[15:34] <pitti> well, we don't translate that either
[15:34] <seb128> pick any city
[15:35] <pitti> $ python -c "import gettext; print gettext.dgettext('libgweather-locations', 'Yekaterinburg Time')"
[15:35] <pitti> Ekaterinburg Ortszeit
[15:35] <pitti> still waiting on -gnome-fr installation
[15:35] <seb128> pitti: "city"
[15:35] <seb128> pitti: it works with countries for some reasons
[15:35] <seb128> that one works too there
[15:36] <seb128> in french I mean
[15:36] <seb128> that's really a weird thing
[15:36] <pitti> seb128: indeed, it doesn't work for Wrocław
[15:36] <seb128> weird
[15:36] <seb128> the translations are in the same mo file
[15:37] <mclasen> seb128: msgctxt
[15:38] <seb128> oh
[15:38] <seb128> mclasen: I was just noticing that when you wrote it
[15:38] <seb128> msgctxt "City in East and South East England, United Kingdom"
[15:38] <seb128> msgid "London"
[15:38] <seb128> msgstr "Londres"
[15:38] <seb128> DOH
[15:38] <seb128> mclasen: thanks ;-)
[15:38] <mclasen> np
[15:49] <seb128> bah, that sucks
[18:30] <kenvandine_wk> launchpad is basically down... :/
[18:31] <pitti> I'm off for today, see you tomorrow
[18:31] <kenvandine_wk> later pitti
[18:31] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: yeah, that's one reason why I stop now; no fun :)
[18:31] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[18:31] <pitti> but it was fun to merge hal for karmic
[18:31] <kenvandine_wk> pretty hard to file bugs :)
[18:31] <kenvandine_wk> woot
[18:31]  * kenvandine_wk is ready for karmic work!
[18:32] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html will keep us busy for a while :)
[18:32] <kenvandine_wk> Merge-o-Matic, i love it
[18:32] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[19:05] <idnzor> Hi, I came to the room to discuss this around a month back. I work for one of the leading (imo :p) user experience consultancies in the UK, covering accessibility and usability. I have been discussing with my manager the possibility of contributing my time and expertise to the Ubuntu or Gnome projects. We came to an agreement today that I could spend a few hours a week offering assistance to open source developers.
[19:07] <idnzor> so i was hoping to find a contact within canonical or gnome who could assist in moving forwards with this, ideally someone who would know of priority projects who could benefit from a few hours of our expertise
[19:09] <idnzor> as the time is limited, i thought the best approach was to deliver the work in blocks, that is, look at a particular aspect of a user journey or application and review it from a usability or accessibility perspective. as i only have a few hours a week, i feel usability testing (involving actual users) may be out of scope
[19:15] <dobey> ah you
[19:16] <jcastro> hi idnzor
[19:16] <jcastro> this would probably interest you: http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/04/22/ayatana/
[19:17] <dobey> hi again idnzor
[19:52] <idnzor> hello again, thank you for the link, will read it now! :)
[19:53] <dobey> idnzor: you might also want to subscribe to the usability list on gnome.org
[19:54] <dobey> idnzor: to discuss doing usability reviews of different gnome apps
[19:56] <idnzor> okay, i will introduce myself to that list
[19:57] <idnzor> if the reviews go well there may be scope to do testing with out facilities, although that is a little out of scope for now
[20:01] <dobey> well, i'd started/worked on some software to use in usability testing in the past, but haven't had any time to hack on it recently
[20:02] <dobey> it would be a good starting point to get a more complex piece of software built that would enable usability testing with trivially available resources
[20:14] <idnzor> the most resource intensive part of usability testing is the analysis part i have found
[20:14] <idnzor> thank you for the link to the usability list on gnome, it looks really promising
[20:15] <dobey> yeah, analysis is hard
[20:15]  * dobey has done enough to know all about that
[20:15] <dobey> but for gathering the data, it would be nice to have some software that anyone could isntall/use on their system
[21:15] <idnzor> optimal usability have some good tools, but they are geared towards the web
[21:17] <dobey> idnzor: the stuff i started was designed/built to be compatible with LogSquare from mangold.de


[01:49] <islington> anyone know the amount of work required to make a kde wallpaper package?
[01:58] <islington> If I have an SVG wallpaper should I still make render for different resolutions? Both kde and gnome seem to handle svgs as wallpaper fine.
[09:54] <knome> islington, svg's can be slow to render, so especially with low-end pc's that might be an issue.
[09:54] <knome> islington, so yes, i'd rather export the svg, but also include the svg in the source package so people can do whatever they want with it
[11:13] <vish> darkmatter: desktopwip! neat! starting clean is better ;)
[11:13] <darkmatter> ;)
[11:15] <vish> thorwil: how does the <<Include(Artwork/PageTemplate/Header)>>  work?  do we have to create a new template..
[11:15] <vish> for the wiki^
[11:28] <darkmatter> vish: I actually came up with something better :P
[11:31] <darkmatter> so after coffee I'm starting mockups. I'll still finish up the nautilus crap as well, but lets build a real library ;)
[11:35] <darkmatter> I should really do up a theme too so I can have pretty widgets, but meh. I can always redraw it later
[11:36] <thorwil> vish: what do you want to do thereß
[11:36] <vish> thorwil: nothing there , wanted to add something similar to the ayatana wiki links
[11:38] <thorwil> vish: well, the include simply adds what is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate/Header
[11:38] <vish> ah ha!
[11:38] <vish> thorwil: thanks :)
[11:38] <thorwil> np
[11:39] <thorwil> vish: i think once you took care of that, i will never have to touch that wiki again and can leave it all to you! ;)
[11:39] <vish> thorwil: whaaaaaaT ?
[11:41] <thorwil> my imaginary doctor prescribed that i stay away from the wiki to help cure my inferior-infrastructure related depression
[11:43] <vish> ;p
[11:46] <darkmatter> vish: the gtk pimps better hurry up and give us the client side deco crap. having all that wasted space makes my cry :/
[11:48] <vish> darkmatter: well switch to Ubuntu , we have more client side deco ;)
[11:48] <vish> darkmatter: they havent landed upstream yet ;p
[11:49] <darkmatter> vish: I mean in general. what I'm mocking up has to fit on all distros :P
[11:49] <darkmatter> it's the realist in me ;)
[11:50] <darkmatter> I'm taking a break from the crustacean to gnomify Sojourn
[11:52] <darkmatter> it has no menubar, which helps. but meh. I should slap together a metacily for the mockups
[20:29] <thorwil> http://typographica.org/2010/on-typography/making-geometric-type-work/
[20:36] <islington> I was reading a book on typography yesterday and I came away understanding , that I did not understand very much, even worse I did not even know what I did not understand
[20:50] <vish> :D
[20:52] <thorwil> islington: that sounds like my relation to programming
[20:54] <thorwil> the durian project wants to make troy_s cry: http://durian.blender.org/news/logo-identity-design/
[20:58] <troy_s> thorwil: Yeah that's a little unfortunate.
[20:58] <troy_s> islington: You know what? That's a pretty damn astute comment. What book out of curiosity?
[21:00] <knome> thorwil, there's nice ones at http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181&sid=b3bc297f1a4f044f44fb119c3a170b76
[21:04] <troy_s> Ugh. I think that link bears the whole contest-driven-output model issue out well.
[21:05] <thorwil> knome: in my eyes, there are very few there with potential and not a single one that is ready. most are childish
[21:05] <knome> yep.
[21:05] <troy_s> And apparently people can't follow a brief to save their lives.
[21:05] <troy_s> There are some pretty talented artists attracted to Blender. I suspect Ton will likely look at that smattering and simply go back to the standouts and let them design it.
[21:06] <knome> :P
[21:06] <thorwil> http://i41.tinypic.com/2psoozd.jpg would be great for a heavy metal band, i guess
[21:06] <islington> troy_s: http://www.amazon.com/Typography-Essentials-Design-Principles-Working/dp/1592535232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272053196&sr=8-1
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Oh I'm jealous. Rockport makes some terrific work.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Haven't seen that one yet, but I'd bet it is a tome of amazing info.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: They make some lovely books. Compendiums of very good worth.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Did you buy it?
[21:08] <islington> yeah I went down to borders, and read it for a while ended up buying it
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: As a side note, I _just_ stumbled across the Layout Essentials (all on grids) and it was _fantastic_.
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: I'm so jealous.
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: I bet it's as solid as their other stuff. Does it reference Tschichold?
[21:09] <islington> so far it goes through like "word" alphabet page
[21:09] <islington> then it lists like a dictionary the concept its uses and real world examples
[21:10] <islington> *word/alphabet/page are the meta categories
[21:10] <troy_s> islington: Lovely. So it's practical in terms of scope. Is there theory?
[21:10] <islington> yes but it only references theory, so I end up have to look that stuff up
[21:11] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:11] <islington> for example in kerning it just says why kerning is done but its very short
[21:12] <troy_s> islington: Well kerning is really a sort of subclass of composition.
[21:13] <troy_s> islington: So knowing the basics of composition and training your eye for value / practise goes pretty much hand in hand with kerning.  It's a microcosm of art / design that is so constrained that it really is a delicate razor of a field.
[21:15] <troy_s> islington: Especially when you see how type fits into history. Typographers are pretty much ear-to-the-ground on art / design, and as such, typography has a perfect parallel with the other disciplines of movement. See Postmodernist type for example.
[21:15] <islington> dude yes, I honestly did not have clue that it is that mature of a field. I started reading it because I wanted to make a typographic wallpaper, but after reading this I was like what I had so far was shit
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: You know what, if you aren't saying that daily, you aren't doing your study. lol.
[21:16] <islington> lol how true :(
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: I'm 40, have spent a whole life pretty much fascinated with art and design and I _still_ challenge myself to rethink things.
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: There are a few amazing bloody TED talks on it if you are interested (the whole 'art / design as cultural movement' meme)
[21:17] <islington> well actually i started doing some research when I watched a docu about Helvetica
[21:17] <troy_s> islington: This one is on point - http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/thelma_golden_how_art_gives_shape_to_cultural_change.html1
[21:18] <islington> then I did my gedit logo proposal and I realized I did not actually know anything
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: Clever woman. It is more relevant and on point because she specifically tackles African American art...
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: Oh... That's damn positive!
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: That means you have become aware of your role in the Denning Kruger effect.
[21:18] <troy_s> lol
[21:19] <islington> lol
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: This is John Cleese's take on it. I swear we need this pinned to the forehead of every member of our culture. http://gregorywood.co.uk/journal/cleese-on-creativity
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: When it comes to art and design, that is _precisely_ why our culture stinks.
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: Very hilarious though.
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: John Cleese sums up Denning / Kruger well.
[21:21] <islington> did you see the ted talk about where a woman was talking about why ancient civilization had so few "troubled" artists?
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Erk. Dunning Kruger rather.
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: NO!
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Linky!
[21:21] <islington> hold on googling
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: There is are some fantastic ones on art / design there.
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Chris Bangles is fricking awe inspiring if only because when I was watching it I immediately was considering the evolution of computing / computers / etc. with it.
[21:25] <islington> http://www.ted.com/speakers/elizabeth_gilbert.html
[21:26] <islington> http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: YUM. Thanks.
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: I'd highly recommend some of the other Rockport stuff.
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: You really need to make TWO purchases to round out your type books: Bringhurst and Tschichold.
[21:30] <troy_s> islington: (Great title of that talk. It is exactly what _we_ need to do!)
[21:31] <islington> will check those out ,definately!
[21:31] <troy_s> islington: Tschichold is a _perfect_ example of someone that more of us need to heed.
[21:31] <troy_s> islington: Because he forks off into the Constructivists.
[21:32] <troy_s> islington: And this fellow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Lissitzky See if you can see why there might be something for us to learn from the Suprematists and Constructivists.
[21:33] <troy_s> islington: In particular, this piece. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_the_Whites_with_the_Red_Wedge
[21:33] <troy_s> islington: (Ignore the communist connections etc.)
[21:34] <troy_s> islington: (The bigger point that an entire art movement was formed around a reaction to the society that they lived in.)
[21:34] <troy_s> islington: (And was actually _executed_ in response to that culture. A movement with such great an impact that you can browse any corner store and see some of their work handed down and iterated over on even the most cheap magazine cover)
[21:35] <troy_s> islington: (Executed being 'created' here. )
[21:35] <troy_s> islington: (Although in fact, some of the Constructivists went 'missing' thanks to the regime at the time - they were that influential.)
[21:42] <troy_s> islington: You interested at all in that?
[21:42] <troy_s> islington: Or did it just totally give you an underwhelming sense of 'meh'?
[21:59] <troy_s> islington: /me bored you to sleep. Apologies. LOL.


[08:17] <smartboyhw> zequence, good patch:D
[08:20] <zequence> smartboyhw: Well, not really :). It contains some unnecessary code. Also, I just added two commits pointed out by falktx.
[08:20] <zequence> Much of the patch does not really fix the bug.
[08:36] <smartboyhw> zequence, oh:P Anyway nervous about your membership application?
[08:46] <zequence> smartboyhw: Not really. More nervous about forgetting to attend, really
[08:47] <smartboyhw> zequence, uh.....
[08:59] <zequence> But, looking forward to it
[09:00]  * smartboyhw remembers something...
[09:01] <smartboyhw> zequence, the fix to solve no help in Ubuntu Studio 12.04 is still not SRUed after 4 months...
[09:01]  * smartboyhw really wants that bug to get solved...
[09:01] <smartboyhw> Bug 1041882....
[09:02] <smartboyhw> len-dt promised to SRU but...
[09:14] <zequence> smartboyhw: We first need to create help documentation
[09:14] <smartboyhw> zequence, no len-dt at least fixed the bug....
[09:14] <zequence> Or, was it supposed to be pointing towards Xubuntu help?
[09:14] <smartboyhw> zequence, creating help documentation is different....
[09:15] <smartboyhw> zequence, the link originally doesn't work, and len-dt proposed a temporary fix to point it to ubuntustudio.org
[09:15] <smartboyhw> zequence, of course we can just create the help documentation, then fix (again) the code and then SRU
[09:16] <zequence> I'd rather it pointed to our community docs, until here are proper help docs
[09:16] <zequence> But, we need to discuss this, before making changes
[09:17] <zequence> smartboyhw: If you like, start a discussion about it on the mail list, and if we can come up with a good solution, it's really up to anyone to do the SRU
[09:20] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK
[10:01] <zequence> smartboyhw: Just don't ever do any SRU requests, if you are not sure that is something the Ubuntu Studio team wants
[10:01] <zequence> Like now, it became evident, that it is always best to ask first
[10:02] <zequence> lunch time..
[10:10] <smartboyhw> zequence, the ultimate ubuntu -lowlatency maintenance guide for ya: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=apw/ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git;a=blob;f=MAINTENANCE;h=edbad33446e76ef08bceaad2dd7522e8fb5f9af1;hb=08c4d240e6b5050d86bf99339e951f2671cae99c
[10:22] <zequence> smartboyhw: That's the old file that Luke added(I think). It's not the way to do it though
[10:22] <smartboyhw> zequence, ah LOL;P
[10:22] <zequence> Also, the source is different now
[10:22] <zequence> Or, how it's packaged, that is
[10:23] <smartboyhw> zequence, yep//////
[10:23] <smartboyhw> though http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=apw/ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git;a=commitdiff;h=08c4d240e6b5050d86bf99339e951f2671cae99c will be the files we want to add
[10:24] <smartboyhw> And just change the versions...
[10:26] <zequence> smartboyhw: That's not how it's done, but once I start maintaining it, I will document the process thoroughly, and anyone interested can have a look at it
[10:27] <zequence> I mean, that is how it was done to create the tree, but not how we will be maintaining it
[10:27] <zequence> There are a lot of scripts used for doing stuff on kernels
[10:27] <smartboyhw> zequence, wow ok
[10:28] <zequence> So, probably many of those changes were not done manually
[10:49] <astraljava> zequence: I'm still interested, even though I'm not _that_ actively involved with the project ATM.
[10:50] <smartboyhw> zequence, astraljava wait I looked at http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html and it seems we are ALREADY given  the maintenance rights.... (Just comment)
[10:53] <zequence> astraljava: smartboyhw: That is a part of the routine in maintaining the kernel further on. apw is setting up things for us, and will be handing over maintenance to the kernel team, once he's done
[10:53] <zequence> But, there's nothing to say about that yet
[10:54] <zequence> So, perhaps just have a little bit of patience
[10:54] <zequence> Especially those who are not even in the kernel team ;)
[10:54] <smartboyhw> zequence, astraljava so good luck on future kernel maintenance.... zequence ;)
[10:57] <smartboyhw> zequence, I think I will wait for a bit on the testing docs. The Ubuntu Community QA Team will be planning Ubuntu Classroom sessions in December (I will do a ISO Testing session), and I think I would rather wait after it's finished, pack up and change the logs a bit, add Ubuntu Studio content, then finish the testing doc...
[10:59] <zequence> smartboyhw: No worries.
[11:04] <smartboyhw> zequence, private message for a bit? I want to ask something about the kernels (since you don't want a non-kernel team to care about much, I'm not going to log it here...)
[11:09] <smartboyhw> *team member
[11:21] <astraljava> zequence: Yep, recalled about as much.
[12:55] <smartboyhw> Yeah now zequence is a Ubuntu member!!!!!


[21:49] <hatch> Makyo: curious as to why we can't just close/re-open the inspector -or- tell the user to do so. I say this because when an update comes down on any of the Google properties it says to refresh the page
[22:02] <Makyo> hatch, That was my question :)
[22:02] <hatch> well then! great minds think alike
[22:02] <hatch> lol
[22:02] <Makyo> hatch, If there's a way to close/reopen automagically, I'm game.
[22:02] <Makyo> That solves a couple of problems, or at least solves one and defers the others.

[22:03] <hatch> I bet there is :) I'll just boot up my VM and take a peek
[22:22] <hatch> Makyo: https://gist.github.com/hatched/e4eb81cd13df5e96063a
[22:33] <Makyo> \o/!
[22:54] <hatch> Makyo: haha - it's pretty untested though so you will want to run it through its paces to make sure there is no hidden dragons
[22:54] <Makyo> I will.  Thanks for the patch, though.
[22:55] <hatch> yeah no problem
[22:55]  * hatch stepping away now
[23:05] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:27] <hatch> morning huwshimi


        S    19:00   0:00 /tmp/test
[19:06] <Keybuk> LOOK, THERE IT IS
[19:06] <Keybuk> attach: ptrace(PTRACE_ATTACH, ...): Operation not permitted
[19:06] <Keybuk> AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A TRACE ON IT
[19:07]  * Keybuk gets angry
[19:07] <Keybuk> oh, I know this one
[19:08] <Keybuk> you can't detach from the process without first sending it a signal
[19:08] <AlexExtreme> a quote from something I read today "UNIX is stupid"
[19:13] <Keybuk> anyway
[19:13] <Keybuk> :-)
[19:13] <Keybuk> http://pastebin.com/m692d8cd2
[19:13] <Keybuk> \o/
[19:14] <AlexExtreme> neat
[19:15] <Keybuk> FOUR WEEKS of fucking work
[19:15] <AlexExtreme> makes my 103 line init program look like total bollocks ;)
[19:15] <Keybuk> I feel like running out into the rain, screaming UUUUULLLLLAAAAAHHHH or something into the air
[19:15] <Keybuk> and then checking myself into a mental asylum
[19:15] <AlexExtreme> haha
[19:15] <Keybuk> something which should be *so* simple
[19:49] <Keybuk> now to tidy up the code, the scary if statements, etc.
[19:49] <Keybuk> and commit
 I.
 HATE.
 UNIX.
 specifically Linux << I should digg that, "Ubuntu's Development Manager hates Linux" :P
[19:50] <Keybuk> heh
[19:50] <Keybuk> we decided that wasn't our job title anymore
[19:50] <Keybuk> I'm "Ubuntu Desktop Team Manager" now
[19:50] <Keybuk> (since my team is now the desktop team, rather than the "red team")
[19:50] <AlexExtreme> heh
[19:51] <AlexExtreme> fine, fine: "Ubuntu's Desktop Team Manager hates Linux"
[19:51] <AlexExtreme> :p
[19:51] <Keybuk> Colin is the Ubuntu Platform Team Manager
[19:55] <AlexExtreme> I know I keep asking, but is there any possibility of a fully native upstart boot sequence getting into hardy?
[19:56] <AlexExtreme> or rather, keep asking after every ubuntu release
[20:23] <Keybuk> hardy? no
[20:31] <Amaranth> I've been asking that since edgy :P
[20:32] <Keybuk> remember, I'm not an ubuntu developer :p
[20:32] <Keybuk> Upstart is my spare time, personal project
[20:32] <Keybuk> so I'm more cautious than usual about "putting it in" simply because I know I don't have the time to fix it when it breaks
[20:51] <thom> Keybuk: is it likely that canonical will commit resources to upstart in a reasonable timescale?
[20:58] <Keybuk> thom: no idea, I'd probably be quite annoyed if they did since it's my project
[21:08] <thom> how can canonical justify *not* commiting any resources to their default init system?
[21:09] <thom> to put it more bluntly
[21:09] <Keybuk> Canonical didn't commit any resources to sysvinit when that was the Ubuntu default?
[21:10] <Keybuk> I don't think anybody does, in fact :-)
[21:10] <thom> they didn't write it, and more than just ubuntu used it by default
[21:10] <Keybuk> it seems like you're talking around a point you want to make?
[21:10] <thom> not really
[21:10] <thom> it just seems unfortunate that ubuntu has a chance to really lead something
[21:10] <thom> and isn't
[21:11] <Keybuk> Upstart development is slow mostly not because I don't have enough time
[21:11] <Keybuk> but because it involves solving hard problems
[21:11] <Keybuk> and nobody else seems interested in them
[21:13] <thom> i'll try and put my point better in a minute; i need to finish a classics essay first :)
[21:54] <Keybuk> ... :-)
[21:54] <thom> a minute was maybe hopeful
[21:55] <thom> references are PITA


 @acheronuk @CliffordTheBigRedDoggie https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=875107
 https://phabricator.kde.org/w/kubuntu/packaging/qt4/
[04:43] <valorie> very nice, tsimonq2
[04:43] <tsimonq2> :)
[04:43] <valorie> just got back from working at the cabin and going to the meeting about the fire, and then eating dinner after
[04:43] <tsimonq2> valorie: irt LFNW or KDE 4 removal?
[04:43] <valorie> I feel much better after doing that work
[04:44] <valorie> cool on both
[04:44] <tsimonq2> :D
[04:44] <valorie> I assume you checked the reverse-dependencies?
[04:45] <tsimonq2> valorie: For kdesudo or for all of them?
[04:45] <tsimonq2> Because with kdesudo, yep.
[04:45] <valorie> all of them
[04:46] <valorie> kdesudo is should be gone, asap
[04:46] <valorie> IMO
[04:46] <tsimonq2> Just removed from Debian today
[04:46] <valorie> I saw that
[04:46] <tsimonq2> I want Clive's and Rik's opinion to see if it should be removed along with the KDE 4 stuff next cycle or ASAP
[04:46] <valorie> I mean it should be removed from our packageset
[04:47] <valorie> archive removal, whatever
[04:47] <tsimonq2> valorie: Removed from packageset =/ archive removal :)
[04:47] <tsimonq2> We shouldn't shun it, we should remove it
[04:47] <tsimonq2> It's a liability
[04:48] <tsimonq2> But I'm assuming Debian did an rdep check before asking for removal...
[04:48] <tsimonq2> I'm just tracking packages Debian is removing to make sure it's on our radar to remove in Ubuntu as well.
[04:48] <tsimonq2> Next cycle or the one after we need to do a large KDE 4 removal.
[04:48] <valorie> yes
[04:48] <tsimonq2> I disagree with Santa when he says that it removes lots of functionality.
[04:49] <tsimonq2> There's a *lot* of stuff ported to Frameworks 5/Qt 5
[04:49] <valorie> well, partially ported
[04:49] <tsimonq2> And removing the packages deprecated upstream in Apps 17.12 will be a HUGE help
[04:49] <tsimonq2> valorie: No, a lot is wholly ported
[04:49] <valorie> *some* stuff has been fully ported
[04:49] <tsimonq2> Fair.
[04:49] <valorie> some has been left behind
[04:49] <valorie> and will probably never be ported
[04:50] <tsimonq2> My *personal* goal is to get Qt 4 completely and fully out the door no later than the 18.10 release.
[04:50] <valorie> and the rest -- we should help with the porting if it is important
[04:50] <tsimonq2> A lot of that is going to be work in Debian, which I'm involved in.
[04:50] <tsimonq2> For example I'll be doing a QA upload soon to update to a new upstream version.
[04:50] <tsimonq2> etc. etc. etc.
[04:50] <valorie> nice
[04:50] <valorie> I appreciate that
[04:51] <tsimonq2> valorie: You know what I mean when I say QA upload
[04:51] <valorie> so do you plan to do a full Lub. release of lxqt?
[04:51] <tsimonq2> And yeah, it's going to need to be a large effort in Debian first :)
[04:51] <valorie> right
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Yep, 17.10 will be the first release with Lubuntu and Lubuntu Next
[04:52] <tsimonq2> valorie: (Q about QA upload is a question :P)
[04:52] <valorie> oh, not entirely
[04:52] <valorie> I know what QA *is*
[04:53] <tsimonq2> valorie: So you know how Debian has the concept of maintainers?
[04:53] <valorie> but not exactly what you are planning to upload
[04:53] <valorie> yes
[04:53] <tsimonq2> When a package is in the archive but has no maintainer, that's an orphaned package
[04:53] <valorie> per package, right
[04:53] <tsimonq2> The QA Team is the "maintainer" for orphaned packages
[04:53] <tsimonq2> Everyone can be on the QA Team
[04:53] <valorie> I've read the Policy Manual
[04:54] <tsimonq2> So yeah, I'll be working in Debian to do QA uploads, maybe even Non Maintainer Uploads if necessary, to get all of this ported over
[04:55] <tsimonq2> valorie: Honestly, you'd be surprised how much is being deprecated and how much isn't
[04:55] <tsimonq2> Good chunks of things are going out the window, lots, well, aren't.
[04:56] <valorie> ok, you are talking "porting" in Debian terms
[04:57] <tsimonq2> No
[04:57] <valorie> whereas I was talking in KDE terms
[04:57] <tsimonq2> I'm talking, porting to Qt 5
[04:57] <tsimonq2> Like, I want to get all of the revdeps of Qt 4, which includes lots of KDE, removed or ported
[04:57] <valorie> ok, but it is often necessary to also port away from the kde4libsupport or whatever that is named
[04:57] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[04:58] <tsimonq2> I'm saying that too
[04:58] <valorie> that's what I mean by fully ported
[04:58] <valorie> that part is fully gone
[04:58] <tsimonq2> Yeahp.
[04:58] <valorie> some games and such will never make the jump unless they gain maintainers who do it
[04:58] <tsimonq2> valorie: kdesudo for example was still KDE 3 but using the compatibility layer that comes with KDE 4 to functio.
[04:58] <tsimonq2> s/functio/function/
[04:58] <valorie> much of the easy stuff has been done
[04:59] <tsimonq2> valorie: Well, that's just what it'll be. If there's enough interest, someone will port it.
[04:59] <valorie> right, which is why we both want it gone
[04:59] <valorie> yep
[04:59] <valorie> I've talked people into becoming maintainers
[04:59] <valorie> it doesn't take much work, for some stuff
[04:59] <tsimonq2> I *might* port some stuff if I find the game entertaining but no promises there
[05:02] <valorie> just be careful not to overextend yourself
[05:02] <tsimonq2> That's why I say no promises :P
[05:02] <valorie> you're in school and that has to be priority ONE
[05:02] <tsimonq2> I've been keeping myself busy
[05:03] <valorie> cool
[05:03] <tsimonq2> Retaking Geometry this year, this new teacher is a bit more lax about homework, that's exactly what I need.
[05:03] <tsimonq2> Otherwise I'm managing my time better this year/
[05:04] <valorie> good to hear
[05:04] <valorie> sounds like boring old "maturity" is sneaking up on ya
[05:05] <tsimonq2> Meh, I slept all day today so I might be pulling the all nighter :P
[05:06] <valorie> oh good lord dude
[05:06] <tsimonq2> One thing I got a lot better at over the summer is going longer without sleep and a functioning brain
[05:06] <valorie> make it a half-nighter at least!
[05:06] <valorie> no, you are killing brain cells
[05:07] <valorie> sleep is not for the weak, it is necessary to stay healthy
[05:07] <tsimonq2> *shrug* I don't do it too often so I think I'll be fine.
[05:07] <valorie> ok
[05:07] <valorie> well, enjoy it while ya can
[05:07] <valorie> I used to be able to do it and just can't function without sleep anymore
[05:07] <tsimonq2> This endless grind... I can't wait until I have more free time for what I love doing
[05:07] <valorie> getting old sucks sometimes
[05:07] <valorie> lol
[05:08] <tsimonq2> Meh, it is what it is, people change over time
[05:08] <valorie> there is always a grind
[05:08] <tsimonq2> Sometimes the grind is more enjoyable than other times
[05:08] <valorie> you have to focus on doing what you love and just make the rest so routine that you hardly notice it
[05:08] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[05:08] <valorie> I used to hate yardwork
[05:09] <valorie> now I love to just help the plants grow
[05:09] <tsimonq2> You? Hate yardwork? :O
[05:09] <valorie> different mindset
[05:09] <tsimonq2> You love to keep your garden up afair!
[05:09] <valorie> I love the plants, not the work
[05:09] <tsimonq2> It's pretty cool looking too :3
[05:09] <tsimonq2> Ah ok
[05:09] <valorie> but the work is necessary
[05:09] <tsimonq2> Sure
[05:09] <valorie> so rather than crabbing internally about it, I just get on with it
[05:10] <tsimonq2> mhm
[05:10] <valorie> yes, it's the work of 40+ years
[05:10] <tsimonq2> :D
[05:11] <tsimonq2> I have a few bits of misc homework I need to get done but I mostly want to get that out of the way so I can get some Ubuntu/Debian stuff done tonight
[05:11] <tsimonq2> I'm enjoying school a bit more this year so far
[05:11] <valorie> good!
[05:11] <tsimonq2> While yes it's 8 hours of grind, I'm more interested in the topics
[05:12] <valorie> people will be happy tomorrow because
[05:12] <valorie> y'all beat our Seahawks
[05:12] <tsimonq2> oh lolll
[05:12] <tsimonq2> What was the score?
[05:12] <tsimonq2> I didn't even pay attention to that... :P
[05:12] <valorie> uh, like 17 / 8 or so?
[05:12] <tsimonq2> Ah ok
[05:13] <valorie> we were working and not listening
[05:13] <tsimonq2> ic
[05:13] <valorie> not that I really care, but my one son does
[05:13] <tsimonq2> Thomas?
[05:13] <valorie> no, Paul
[05:13] <tsimonq2> Ah ok
[05:13] <tsimonq2> If it was Thomas you should have told him I'm in GB :P
[05:13] <valorie> and the guy who runs our fav. restaurant is a cheesehead
[05:14] <tsimonq2> Oh that's right, you told me about that
[05:14] <valorie> so he'll be crowing on Wed.
[05:14] <valorie> lol
[05:14] <tsimonq2> Is that the diner you took me to Friday morning at LFNW or is that not your fav one? :P
[05:14] <tsimonq2> lol
[05:14] <valorie> morning?
[05:14] <tsimonq2> Yeah it was barely morning :P
[05:15] <tsimonq2> Almost afternoon!
[05:15] <valorie> I'm not remembering
[05:15] <tsimonq2> We had pancakes and I watched you drink your creamer with a hint of coffee :P
[05:15] <tsimonq2> You took your husband and I to a thing in Seattiel
[05:15] <valorie> oh, no, Mike doesn't serve breakfast
[05:15] <tsimonq2> s/Seattiel/Seattle/
[05:15] <tsimonq2> Ah ok
[05:15] <tsimonq2> :P
[05:15] <tsimonq2> valorie: But you at least remember that right?
[05:16] <valorie> that was some chain!
[05:16] <valorie> like Denny's or something
[05:16] <valorie> it was .....
[05:16] <tsimonq2> No?
[05:16] <valorie> yes, I do
[05:16] <tsimonq2> Or was it?
[05:16] <valorie> now
[05:16] <valorie> it had breakfast
[05:16] <tsimonq2> Like I said, I remember you had your creamer with a hint of coffee :P
[05:16] <valorie> the local place would have been memorable
[05:16] <valorie> lol
[05:17] <valorie> I usually have milk
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Oh
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Well same difference?
[05:17]  * tsimonq2 runs
[05:17] <valorie> anyway, do your homework!!!
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I prolly should :P
[05:17] <tsimonq2> valorie: Have a good night
[05:17] <valorie> niters
 http://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2017/09/quick-look-at-kubuntu-artful-pre-release.html
 you ok?
 I'm alive just have no power
 Have to move around to get phone service
[19:31] <valorie> wow, that's a lovely review
[19:31] <valorie> who tweets and toots for the Kubuntu account?
[19:31] <valorie> I'd like RT that
[19:32] <valorie> how are you, ahoneybun?
 I'm fine, no power or internet but ehh
[20:38] <clivejo> could be weeks before they get that all sorted out
 It could
 I don't think our power pole is that bad tho
[20:48] <valorie> well, they fix stuff in order of how many people it will help
[20:48] <valorie> which is why we were without power for over a week one time
[20:49] <valorie> now that we have gas, at least one can always take a hot shower
[22:00] <clivejo> yeah, I'd love to know how RichardF does the maps on http://cycle.travel/map?from=51.941425,-0.917313&suggest=1
[22:00] <clivejo> ah fiddle sticks
[22:01] <clivejo> Closing the poll
[22:02] <clivejo> hummm
[22:03] <clivejo> a tie
[22:04] <clivejo> what happens in the case of a tie?
[22:07] <acheronuk> shoot out?
[22:07] <clivejo> only fair way
[22:07] <acheronuk> paper scissors rock?
[22:08] <clivejo> LOL I dunno
[22:08] <acheronuk> valorie: hellllllllllllllllllllllllp?
[22:10] <acheronuk> I didn't think cvs would allow a tie. maybe I misread
[22:10] <clivejo> I didn't either :/
[22:11] <clivejo> but no matter what rule I use, same results
[22:12] <clivejo> if we had one more voter, would have settled it
[22:13] <acheronuk> does the community council ours is delegated from have a policy?
[22:15] <acheronuk> which placing is the tie on?
[22:15] <clivejo> 3rd seat
[22:16] <acheronuk> damn!
 I didn't vote as I had my name in
[22:16] <valorie> I've never heard of a tie!
[22:16] <valorie> wth ahoneybun, why not?
[22:16] <valorie> there were others running
[22:16] <valorie> and a lower vote count does not look good
[22:16] <valorie> looks like people don't care
[22:16] <wxl> i voted
[22:17] <clivejo> 19 votes out of 41
[22:17] <valorie> we want people to step up, nominate themselves and of course vote for themselves if they think they are the best person for the job
 Who's in 4?
[22:17] <wxl> there's no 4
[22:17] <wxl> there's 3 and 3
[22:17] <clivejo> aaron can you send me your vote?
[22:18]  * wxl points at the definition of a tie
 I didn't vote lol
[22:18] <wxl> he's asking you too
[22:19] <clivejo> well if I take your word for that, and you send me how you would of voted
[22:19] <wxl> (maybe the hurricane affected his mind?) XD
[22:19] <clivejo> might be able to break the tie
[22:20] <valorie> as the person running the vote, you have the right to break the tie I would think
[22:20] <valorie> and asking Aaron for his vote seems reasonable to me
[22:20] <acheronuk> clivejo: did you not vote?
[22:20] <clivejo> I did
[22:20] <valorie> good
[22:21] <valorie> I hope everyone voted
[22:21] <acheronuk> oh, thought you said you would not as you were running the poll.
[22:21] <acheronuk> ^^^ that made no sense to me
[22:21] <clivejo> I couldn't run for election
 Well internet kinda does not work great right now
[22:21] <clivejo> Telegram me
[22:22] <clivejo> PM
[22:22] <clivejo> just your list of 1,2,3,4 you would have voted
[22:23] <acheronuk> this is nail biting!
 I emailed but it's not sent yet
[22:23]  * clivejo plays suspense building music
[22:24]  * acheronuk wonders if the Russians hacked the vote
 Trying to send it now clivejo
[22:25] <clivejo> ok got it
[22:26] <valorie> \o/
[22:26] <acheronuk> *** drum roll ***
[22:26] <clivejo> so with that vote counted the results are 1) Rik Mills 2) Aaron Honeycutt 3) Rick Timmis
[22:26] <valorie> cool
[22:26] <wxl> congrats everywhere!
[22:26] <acheronuk> O_O
[22:27] <valorie> acheronuk: <3
[22:27] <wxl> acheronuk: now now, don't be modest.
[22:28] <acheronuk> don't know what to say, except thanks any where who voted like that!
[22:28] <acheronuk> + I'll try to live up to that
[22:28] <acheronuk> *thanks any one
[22:28] <acheronuk> to all actually, that was clearly close
 XD Rik
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/qISVCped/file_3219.jpg
[22:30] <acheronuk> congrats Aaron on another term :) and Rick on a great result for a great guy
[22:30] <clivejo> valorie: can you do the honors
[22:30] <clivejo> bring the KC back up to full numbers
[22:30] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: sooooo close. that says a lot as well.
[22:31] <valorie> can I do what honors?
[22:31] <valorie> you need to announce the results on all the lists
[22:31] <clivejo> add the 3 names to KC team
[22:31] <valorie> oh certainly
[22:32] <valorie> sorry, I just looked at the updated fire map and it looks like it hopped over the highway towards our cabin
[22:32] <valorie> but the announcements don't say anything
 Probably post it
[22:32] <valorie> yikes, Rick's name is spelled incorrectly, isn't it?
[22:33] <valorie> it's Timmis?
[22:33] <clivejo> yes, my fault
[22:33] <valorie> or Timmus
[22:33] <clivejo> Timmis
[22:33] <acheronuk> lol. yes, we realised as soon as the ballots went out
[22:34] <acheronuk> the Rik vs Rick was the right way around though :P
[22:34] <clivejo> yeah thanks ahoneybun!
[22:34] <clivejo> pointing it out, after I sent the ballots!
[22:37] <valorie> done
 I told you lol
[22:37] <clivejo> yeah AFTER!
 I did not proof read it
[22:38] <clivejo> tisk
[22:38] <clivejo> tuts
[22:39] <valorie> clivejo: I don't see the results in my email yet?
[22:40] <valorie> congratulations to all the winners by the way
[22:40] <valorie> sorry tsimonq2
[22:40] <clivejo> hold your horses speed goz allie
[22:40] <acheronuk> valorie: are not all KC meant to be admins on the team?
[22:40] <valorie> lol
[22:40] <valorie> oh, I didn't do that, duh
[22:40] <acheronuk> no probs
[22:42] <valorie> done
[22:42] <valorie> separate step done in another dialog
[22:42] <acheronuk> LP doesn't make it easy
[22:43] <valorie> you can tell it was coded long ago
[22:43] <valorie> oh well
[22:43] <valorie> it's what we've got and it usually works
[22:44] <valorie> who has the keys to the kubuntu twitter/mastodon?
[22:45] <valorie> this should be tweeted:  http://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2017/09/quick-look-at-kubuntu-artful-pre-release.html
[22:45] <acheronuk> I think Aaron, Ovi and maybe mparrilo?
[22:45] <valorie> and I guess I should write a news story for the website
[22:45] <valorie> want to reply to the email first
[22:45] <valorie> then once we have a story on teh site, tweet that
[22:46] <acheronuk> https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/907338871096184833
[22:46] <valorie> aha, the site is done
[22:46] <valorie> cool
[22:47] <acheronuk> so looks like someone tweeted that review
[22:48] <valorie> probably Mparillo
[22:53] <acheronuk> Wish I could have seen clive's face when he saw a tie :P
[22:54] <clivejo> was like "oh feck"
[22:54] <clivejo> why did I volunteer to do this!
[22:55] <valorie> hehe
[23:01] <acheronuk> anything else I need to do?
[23:07]  * acheronuk hands clive a large JD to calm his nerves
[23:08]  * clivejo shaking so bad the ice is rattling like crazy
[23:17] <valorie> can someone check this before I publish?
[23:17] <valorie> https://kubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3383&action=edit
[23:17] <valorie> thank you so much for running the election, Clive
[23:20] <acheronuk> seems ok to me
[23:20] <acheronuk> and yes, thank you clive :)
[23:24] <valorie> ok, added one more sentence
[23:25] <valorie> I think I got all the typos out, but please check?
[23:27] <acheronuk> seems slightly odd to name/thank clive as running the election, then refer to him as 'the kubuntu member'?
[23:28] <acheronuk> with the new sentence there that is.
[23:28] <valorie> oops
[23:28] <valorie> thanks
[23:31] <valorie> better?
[23:32] <clivejo> I have such a banging headache tonight
[23:32] <valorie> oh gosh, why am I asking you, it's like 2am where you are, isn't ?
[23:32] <valorie> for both of you
[23:32] <valorie> clivejo: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
[23:32] <clivejo> 12:32am
[23:32] <valorie> ok, not terrible
[23:32] <clivejo> just a nasty day
[23:32] <valorie> :(
[23:33] <acheronuk> We thank Simon for running and making this a race, Clay and Ovidiu-Florin for their service on the Council, and Kubuntu Member Clive Johnston for stepping up and running this election.
[23:34] <acheronuk> See the official announcement from Clive on our mailing lists
[23:34] <clivejo> you don't have to put my name in there
[23:34] <acheronuk> we do
[23:34] <valorie> did you change it, acheronuk?
[23:34] <valorie> I think your way is better
[23:34] <acheronuk> no, that was a suggestion
[23:34] <valorie> OK, I'll fix
[23:34] <acheronuk> did not want to fight for edit rights
[23:35] <clivejo> go on, fight!
[23:36] <acheronuk> all good then. or as much as my sleepy eyes can tell
[23:36] <clivejo> I'll put money on valorie
[23:36] <acheronuk> so would I!
[23:36] <valorie> lol
[23:37] <valorie> better than that recent billion-dollar fight or whatever
[23:37] <valorie> ok, will publish
[23:37] <acheronuk> :)
[23:37] <valorie> https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-council-election-results-announced/ -- weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
[23:37] <valorie> thank you all
[23:38] <valorie> someone please tweet it
[23:38] <valorie> officially
[23:39] <acheronuk> clive is missing his 't' in johnston?
[23:39] <acheronuk> or is that right?
[23:39] <valorie> damn it, I copy/pasted from his email
[23:39] <valorie> grrrr
[23:39] <acheronuk> LOL
[23:40] <valorie> the *first* time
[23:40] <valorie> sheesh
[23:40] <valorie> editing is a bear
[23:40] <acheronuk> it is
[23:40] <valorie> fixx0red
[23:41] <valorie> gotta get out and water before it gets any later
[23:42] <acheronuk> ok. thanks. I better get some sleep
[23:42] <acheronuk> night all
[23:43] <valorie> thank you again, acheronuk
[23:43] <valorie> sleep well


[05:14] <maskara> so ive been trying to install lubuntu and have had rotten luck with bootloader issues from v16.10 so had this idea to install a version lower and presto no bootloader problem and install finished with success...well my brilliant ideA NOW sits on a diff problem....desktop wont load i can bootup and login via commandline just fine but desktop wont load ...im not looking for a marathon Q&A from anyone ...just if someone has seen this behavior based on the
[05:14] <maskara> details i put forth
[14:45] <Jbmorris289> Hello, happy new year..
[14:46] <Jbmorris289> My question:
[14:46] <Jbmorris289> Let's say that I
[14:46] <Jbmorris289> I
[14:46] <Jbmorris289> . Whoops.
[14:48] <Jbmorris289> Let's say that I installed Lubuntu through Wubi. Then one day I tried suspending the computer. I get this message: "2 tasks refusing to freeze"
[14:49] <Jbmorris289> Would that because it's running in a virtual disk?
[14:49] <Jbmorris289> be*
[15:19] <Afshaal> uh
[15:19] <Afshaal> suspending the computer while running Lubuntu?
[15:19] <xangua> ??
[15:20] <Afshaal> Jbmorris289's question ^
 Let's say that I installed Lubuntu through Wubi. Then one day I tried suspending the computer. I get this message: "2 tasks refusing to freeze"
 Would that because it's running in a virtual disk?
[15:21] <Afshaal> Why would it be running on a virtual disk?
[15:24] <Afshaal> If I'm reading this correctly
[15:24] <Afshaal> so Wubi basically sets up a disk image for loop booting?
[15:25] <xangua> No one should use wubi anymore
[15:27] <Afshaal> but it sounds cool :3
[15:28] <xangua> Lol
[17:01] <asdjslkdcj> Hey. Just installed Lubuntu yesterday, had trouble connecting to internet today. Solved it following instructions here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/627899/nameserver-127-0-1-1-in-resolv-conf-wont-go-away
[17:02] <asdjslkdcj> Wondering if anyone can shed light on what that nameserver on localhost thing is for? I'm interested in understanding why it got set that way
[18:27] <freefall> hello
[18:27] <freefall> im try to upgrade a linux computer from 16.04 to 16.10 and im getting errors anyone able to help me fix this?
[19:00] <freefall> ??
[19:06] <jeanjack> freefall: what is your error ?
[19:11] <freefall> jeanjack
[19:11] <freefall> you still in here
[19:12] <freefall> traceback says ** (yakkety:2169): WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.dbus.error.serviceunknow: the name org.ally.bus was not provided by any .service files
[19:13] <freefall> traceback (most recentcall last): file "/tmp/tmp.Hauntc7l73/yakkety", line 8, in <module> sys.exit(main())
[19:13] <freefall> file "/tmp/tmp.hauntc7l73/distupgrade/distupgradmain.py", line 242 in main if app.run():


[06:45] <wolter> hi, I want to link a +junk branch to a project, but when I try to link the branch to the series, i get "Invalid value"
[06:46] <wgrant> wolter: You'll need to push the branch up again, this time into the project. You can't link a +junk branch to a project.
[06:46] <wolter> oh
[06:46] <wolter> thanks wgrant :)
[07:04] <wolter> also, how can I make tarballs appear on the downloads box?
[07:04] <wgrant> wolter: Add files to a release.
[07:05] <wgrant> https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/FileDownloads
[07:06] <wolter> thanks again
[09:19] <evaluate> hello
[09:19] <evaluate> I sent an e-mail yesterday to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but I can't see the e-mail anywhere on the list.
[09:20] <lifeless> are you subscribed?
[09:20] <lifeless> if not, it will be in the moderation queue
[09:22] <evaluate> lifeless, I am subscribed, I just noticed that I didn't have the E-mail address, from which I sent the mail, in my account.
[13:25] <mok0_> which is like a one file change
[13:26] <maxb> hmm. I'm not sure why you'd commit a merge like that with a commit message like that
[13:26] <maxb> It doesn't make sense :-)
[13:26] <mok0_> maxb: no
[13:26] <mok0_> :-)
[13:26] <mok0_> maxb: that's why I'd like to change it
[13:26] <mok0_> maxb, guess I'll have to find another mode of working with bzr
[13:27] <mok0_> maxb: the merge 68.1.2 has the really important changes
[13:28] <maxb> I think part of the problem is that you committed both a merge and a direct change at the same time - how did you do that? I believe 'bzr merge' complains if you try to merge when you already have local changes
[13:30] <mok0_> maxb, I can't remember exactly what I did
[13:30] <mok0_> maxb, I might have forced a merge
[13:31] <maxb> ok. Well, one of the major rules of having a comprehensible history is that every commit should be either a direct change or a merge, never both together
[13:31] <mok0_> maxb: what else to do, if you've done a lot of edits, and realize you need to import fixes which is already commited?
[13:32] <maxb> Several options
[13:33] <maxb> 1) If your local changes are not yet committed, 'bzr pull' would bring in the new revisions, merge your working copy, leaving you with your uncommitted changes still uncommitted
[13:33] <maxb> 2) Or, if your local changes are not yet committed, and you want to store them out of the way whilst you pull, to be brought back later, 'bzr shelve'
[13:34] <mok0_> maxb, ah, perhaps that is the trick I need to use
[13:34] <mok0_> maxb: Sometimes I get the message that the versions have diverged
[13:34] <maxb> 3) Or, if your branch has already diverged from trunk, and you have no local changes, then you do need to do a merge
[13:35] <mok0_> maxb: I think it's in case 3 that the commit message gets buried
[13:35] <maxb> 4) Or, if your branch has already diverged from trunk AND you have additional local changes, then you need to commit or shelve the local changes before doing a merge
[13:36] <maxb> In case 3 there are no local changes, and the commit message exists solely to describe what you are merging
[13:36] <mok0_> maxb: case 4 rather
[13:36] <mok0_> maxb: if I fail to shelve, I think the commit message gets buried in a sub-revision
[13:37] <maxb> In case 4, you shelved or committed the local changes before merging, so the merge commit message *still* exists solely to describe what you are merging
[13:37] <maxb> If you fail to commit or shelve first, then merge refuses to work because your local copy is not clean. If you --force it.... on your head be it :-)
[13:38] <mok0_> maxb: I understand
[13:38] <mok0_> maxb: sometimes I don't want to make a commit, because what I'm doing is not completed
[13:38] <mok0_> maxb, I just want to pull in revisions that I know I've done
[13:39] <mok0_> maxb: so I guess "shelve" is what I should be doing
[13:40] <mok0_> maxb: but what happens if there is a conflict when you "unshelve"?
[13:41] <maxb> Same as what happens for any conflict that arises from "merge"
[13:43] <mok0_> maxb: thanks for the tips! Very useful
[14:58] <gusnan> I am upstream of a package, and also maintain it in debian - Now I see that the powerpc build fails in Ubuntu - but I get no log or anything - what is the problem? the page where I would expect a build log just says "Failed to build".
[14:59] <gusnan> the package is sciteproj, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sciteproj/0.3.22-1/+build/2099651
[15:28] <CarlFK> shouldn't marking a bug as close cascade to duplicate bugs?
[16:09] <maxb> gusnan_: AFAIK a failed build with no log is a result of a build being terminated abnormally by the launchpad buildd system. I would suggest asking someone to trigger a retry
[16:10] <maxb> I think any MOTU can do this for you - ask in #ubuntu-motu
[16:21] <gusnan_> maxb, Thanks!
[16:24] <maxb> CarlFK: No. If a bug is marked as a duplicate, it is considered as having no status of its own, so there's nothing to cascade to.
[16:24] <CarlFK> maxb: does the dupe need to be closed, or is the dupe status already close it?
[16:25] <maxb> The dupe does not need to be closed
[16:27] <CarlFK> k thanks
[16:32] <exarkun> Can tickets/ticket comments be migrated from trac into launchpad (not synchronize, just one off)?
[16:42] <maxb> There is a bulk import XML format which the Launchpad sysadmins can use to migrate bugs into launchpad. I'm not sure if anyone has written an exporter from trac to that format, but it seems possible
[16:44] <exarkun> maxb: Ah.  I just found https://launchpad.net/trac-launchpad-migrator and was wondering what to do with the XML afterwards.
[16:44] <maxb> As it's a weekend, your best option might be to email the launchpad-users mailing list - enough of the right people watch it that you ought to get an answer in the coming week, I think
[16:45] <maxb> ah, in that case, I suggest trying to produce the XML dump, and then registering a question (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion) to get the import process started
[16:46] <exarkun> Cool, thanks.
[17:59] <lifeless> exarkun: hi
[19:11] <exarkun> lifeless: Hi
[19:23] <lifeless> exarkun: we often test imports on staging - that needs a losa, which is going to be in fairly short supply this week - holiday season
[19:23] <lifeless> exarkun: (importing to prod also requires a losa)
[19:25] <exarkun> I don't think anyone will be surprised if it takes until early january for this process to be completed.
[19:25] <lifeless> cool
[19:25] <lifeless> something you can do to test locally, if you want, is to setup a vm with launchpad in it, and run the import script yourself. https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/VirtualMachine
[19:26] <exarkun> I have to figure out how to extract data from a corrupt database file first, anyway :/
[19:26] <lifeless> I don't know if thats worth the effort or not.
[19:26] <lifeless> ugh
[19:26] <lifeless> thats less than pleasant
[19:26] <exarkun> Yes
[19:27] <exarkun> But it's Saturday so I'll do something fun instead, like write Python bindings for this C++ library
[19:27] <lifeless> \o/


[00:32] <tsimonq2> hey, just a heads up for people *joining* the *Hangout*, the url changed. It is now https://hangouts.google.com/call/rqqgdspzyojqagyhncuzyngwvia
[00:36] <FastJaguar> Hey!
[00:36] <tsimonq2> o/
[00:38] <tsimonq2> FastJaguar: this is gonna be mean
[00:38] <tsimonq2> FastJaguar: gonna be in and out of the Hangout
[00:39] <FastJaguar> Ok
[00:40] <tsimonq2> FastJaguar: I can hear you, BTW
[00:40] <FastJaguar> Oh, right
[00:40] <FastJaguar> Sorry, muting mic
[00:41] <tsimonq2> FastJaguar: we aren't live yet, so big deal :P
[00:41] <FastJaguar> I know
[00:53] <adueppen> ayy we're live
[00:54] <nhaines> LoCo stands for "Local Community"!  LoCo teams and LoCo Council stem from that.  :)
[00:55] <nhaines> Back when LoCo teams were still new, people would asked if we "worked for Ubuntu".  I'd say "No, we're members of the California LoCo team."
[00:55] <nhaines> They'd say "'LoCo'?" and I'd say "We're crazy about Ubuntu."
[00:56] <adueppen> yeah my parents joke with me about that
[00:58] <adueppen> not really much to say right now
[00:58] <nhaines> It's a good conference joke, anyway.  :)
[00:58] <FastJaguar> Not really
[01:01] <adueppen> maybe a bit off-topic, but the meeting hasn't really started yet: flash player is finally being acknowledged as being pretty much dead by Adobe
[01:02] <tsimonq2> mikeputnam! we are waiting for you! :D
[01:03] <tsimonq2> mikeputnam: https://hangouts.google.com/call/rqqgdspzyojqagyhncuzyngwvia
[01:05] <adueppen> I'm Alex, I've been doing some art for the LoCo and I promise I'll turn on my webcam and mic soon.
[01:05] <nhaines> I'm on the Local Community Council, and I'm just here for moral support.  :)
[01:06] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/WisconsinTeam/20151201
[01:14] <adueppen> no objections
[01:14] <tsimonq2> #startmeeting
[01:14] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  2 01:14:19 2015 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[01:14] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[01:15] <nhaines> You can add the earlier logs to the meeting later, when you add it to the wiki page.  :)
[01:18] <adueppen> we might want to come up with ideas here and then propose it to the list
[01:21] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines
[01:22] <nhaines> Yup, that's the one!
[01:23] <mikeputnam> proposed: send mail to the mailing list suggesting that our remote LoCo meeting move to 2nd Friday of each month in order to be inclusive to Ian W.
[01:26] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WisconsinTeam
[01:27] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WisconsinTeam/NewMemberOrientation
[01:27] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WisconsinTeam/MeetingAgendas
[01:27] <adueppen> ok turning on my webcam here
[01:37] <nhaines> I recommend redirecting the domain name to the main wiki page immediately.  And then that buys you time while you figure out what to do with the site.
[01:37] <nhaines> It's better to get some kind of CMS in place to make it easier for contributors, as opposed to hand editing.  :)
[01:38] <adueppen> I can go make a Github org for the LoCo right now
[01:40] <nhaines> I definitely agree: figure out whether to use a website and then what audience it will serve.  Pick the tools afterward.
[01:42] <adueppen> http://ubuntu-california.org/
[01:46] <FastJaguar> Hello!
[01:46] <FastJaguar> It is
[01:46] <FastJaguar> And yes, I am listening
[02:00] <tsimonq2> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/
[02:00] <tsimonq2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtctPsfZ1VU
[02:16] <FastJaguar> Happy holidays!
[02:17] <adueppen> bye guys
[02:17] <tsimonq2> o/
[02:17] <tsimonq2> #endmeeting
[02:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  2 02:17:50 2015 UTC.
[02:17] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-us-wi/2015/ubuntu-us-wi.2015-12-02-01.14.moin.txt
[02:17] <nhaines> Good job, guys!
[02:18] <tsimonq2> nhaines: could I add to the actual meeting logs generated by meetingology?
[02:18] <tsimonq2> nhaines: or can I not?
[02:18] <tsimonq2> nhaines: (or should I just put it right in the wiki page?)
[02:19] <nhaines> Just put it right on the wiki page.
[02:19] <nhaines> The meetingology stuff is just to help you out, that's all.  :)
[02:21] <tsimonq2> oh ok
[02:21] <tsimonq2> nhaines: thanks! :D
[02:21] <tsimonq2> ThorZ: o/
[02:24] <tsimonq2> FastJaguar: so have a good night!
[02:24] <tsimonq2> :D
[03:10] <tsimonq2> nhaines: do you plan on idling here for now on?
[03:10] <tsimonq2> just curious
[03:57] <h00k> I managed to core dump my irssi.
[03:59] <mikeputnam> h00k don't mess around!
[04:04] <h00k> yeah, well.
[04:32] <nhaines> tsimonq2: probably not forever, but probably for another day or two until I get tired of having more than 10 windows open in irssi.  :)
[12:51] <tsimonq2> nhaines: I have 40 :P
[13:45] <mikeputnam> heh.  i have 3.   #wilug, #appletonmakerspace, #ubuntu-us-wi
[13:46] <mikeputnam> (not including bitlbee for google talk)
[13:47] <mikeputnam> i tend to pop into foss channels when i have a question; then idle there for a few days
[18:07] <nhaines> tsimonq2: haha, I'm fine up to about 19, and then I run out of navigation hotkeys!  :)
[20:08] <IvanR_> nhaines: http://superuser.com/questions/651677/irssi-what-to-do-if-i-have-more-than-19-irssi-windows
[20:10] <IvanR_> The article linked from there should cover you for windows 1-80, that should hold you for a while.
[20:19] <mikeputnam> weechat + buffer.pl  :)
[20:19] <mikeputnam> https://images.thoughtbot.com/weechat.gif
[20:19] <mikeputnam> you can just arrow up and down the list at the left
[20:32] <IvanR_> I'm just getting used to tmux mouse mode, I don't know if I'm ready for an irc client that advanced yet.
[20:54] <mikeputnam> heh
[20:55] <mikeputnam> i don't use mouse mode. messes up my vim/copy paste stuff and i haven't bothered to find out how to cope
[21:14] <tsimonq2> nhaines: in irssi I just either do /win or I have short aliases to bring me places, such as /ts brings me to my channel
[21:27] <IvanR_> mikeputnam: Inside tmux, I use the mouse to select, C-b ] to paste. For copying outside of tmux, I have keybinds to turn mouse input off & on.
[21:30] <mikeputnam> inside i just use C-b [ followed by Space to select/yank, then C-b ] to past.  outside i just use normal highlight to copy mouse stuff.
[21:30] <mikeputnam> s/past/paste/
[21:35] <tsimonq2> guys, SERIOUSLY? Ctrl + Shift + V!
[21:35] <tsimonq2> :P
[21:36] <mikeputnam> tsimonq2: for what? in what?
[21:36] <tsimonq2> mikeputnam: irssi and tmuz
[21:36] <tsimonq2> *tmux
[21:36] <tsimonq2> I use it as well
[21:37] <tsimonq2> Ctrl + Shift + V works perfectly fine
[21:37] <mikeputnam> for irssi maybe.
[21:37] <tsimonq2> also with a shell
[21:37] <mikeputnam> which shell?
[21:37] <mikeputnam> in an xterm?
[21:37] <tsimonq2> lxterminal
[22:25] <tsimonq2> I think that I am going to go ahead and send something to the ML about weekly meetings in IRC
[22:25] <tsimonq2> brief ones
[22:35] <mikeputnam> cool