[02:49] <mantiena> Hi all
[02:54] <mantiena> are someone of launchpad developers alive ?
[02:57] <spiv> mantiena: I am, but I'm about to go have lunch :)
[02:57] <spiv> mantiena: What's up?
[03:00] <mantiena> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3550
[03:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3550: There are no way to register a new distribution on https://launchpad.net/distros In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3550
[03:01] <mantiena> spiv, could you help me to register new distribution at lauchpad ?
[03:02] <spiv> I think the URL you want is https://launchpad.net/distros/+add, but it's not linked that I can see..
[03:07] <mantiena> spiv, could you write about this at this bugreport?
[03:08] <jamesh> you need admin privileges to add distros
[03:08] <mantiena> :(
[03:08] <jamesh> and I don't know what the current rules are for adding them.
[03:09] <mantiena> jamesh, so, what knows if I can used launchpad for Ubuntu-Based Baltix GNU/Linux distribution ?
[03:09] <mantiena> s/what/who
[03:11] <jamesh> probably steve or kiko would
[03:11] <jamesh> but they aren't up at this time of day
[03:12] <mantiena> jamesh, SteveA ?
[03:12] <lifeless> mantiena: you definately can, but the exact means to get different distros INTO launchpad are not yet defined in policy let alone code
[03:13] <lifeless> mantiena: so I suggest talking to SteveA (GMT - 3) or kiko (GMT - 10)
[03:13] <mantiena> lifeless, jamesh: thanks, I know SteveA - he lives in the same country like I ;)
[03:13] <lifeless> lithuania ?
[03:13] <mantiena> yea ;)
[03:13] <lifeless> cool
[04:55] <jamesh> lifeless: btw, I added a "time" column to the pending-reviews page, showing how long each branch took to process
[04:55] <lifeless> cool
[04:56] <jamesh> there's quite a big variance in run times
[04:58] <jamesh> I don't know whether that's to be expected or now
[04:58] <jamesh> s/now/not/
[05:00] <lifeless> some yes
[07:21] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[07:42] <SteveA> morning
[07:42] <SteveA> labas rytas, mantai
[07:44] <lifeless> hey
[07:44] <lifeless> so
[07:44] <lifeless> bzr and bzrtools for launchpad
[07:44] <lifeless> bzr's test suite runs bzrtools test suite. bzrtools requires testresources to run its test suite. Is it ok if I include testresources in the launchpad config ?
[07:45] <SteveA> what is "testresources" ?
[07:45] <lifeless> a unittest extension I wrote over a couple of weekends based on some common performance issues I have observed
[07:45] <lifeless> it manages expensive resources such as databases, sample VCS trees etc.
[07:46] <jblack> jjjj
[07:47] <SteveA> no package in universe?
[07:47] <lifeless> not packaged at the moment
[07:47] <lifeless> the api has not changed since creation.
[07:47] <lifeless> I believe trial HEAD uses it now, though I'm not sure.
[07:48] <lifeless> I can package it up though.
[07:48] <lifeless> are you saying you'd like it to be a package ;)
[07:48] <SteveA> why does bzr's test suite run bzrtools' test suite?
[07:48] <lifeless> because bzrtools is a plugin and thats the way we have structured it
[07:48] <lifeless> plugins cannot run their own test suites
[07:48] <SteveA> does launchpad depend on bzrtools?
[07:49] <lifeless> ddaa's conversion script that will be running over the next month or so does.
[07:49] <SteveA> ok.  my concern is that if we run tests that we don't care about for launchpad, then we're slowing down pqm for no reason.
[07:49] <SteveA> so, there is a reason over the next month
[07:49] <SteveA> there may be no reason after that
[07:50] <lifeless> SteveA: the test suite takes 1 minute to run
[07:50] <lifeless> for bzr and bzrtools
[07:50] <lifeless> so I dont think its of significant impact compared to the other issues that are around. We have choices:
[07:51] <lifeless> we could say that ddaas script is not part of any launchpad deployment and create a different config for it, that runs only his scripts tests & the bzr ones
[07:51] <lifeless> we could disable the bzrtools tests and or the bzr ones
[07:52] <SteveA> i think it is good to have only tests-passing bzr trees in the launchpad config
[07:53] <SteveA> but, do we need to run bzr tests on every launchpad merge?
[07:53] <lifeless> at this point no, because bzr is a strict no-deps-on-lp layer
[07:54] <lifeless> that said, we do need to run the bzr tests and the bzrtools tests as I develop the baz2bzr for importd code.
[07:55] <SteveA> where does baz2bzr live?
[07:55] <lifeless> in bzrtools
[07:57] <SteveA> so, can we have bzrtools and bzr in RF, and run the bzrtools and bzr tests when merging into either of those.  i don't mind whether "testresources" is a package or a tree.
[07:58] <lifeless> yes
[07:58] <lifeless> we have bzr already
[07:58] <lifeless> I put bzrtools in earlier today (because I thought we had had this discussion a couple weeks back)
[07:58] <lifeless> I was testing an upgrade of bzr when this arose
[07:59] <lifeless> I'd like to start with testresources as a tree, because that way if the api changes, our old trees will still be verifiable
[07:59] <SteveA> as we can avoid running bzr / bzrtools tests on merging launchpad, i'd like to avoid that
[07:59] <SteveA> find
[07:59] <SteveA> infe
[07:59] <SteveA> fine
[07:59] <lifeless> :)
[08:00] <lifeless> I would like to run the tests on all commits for now, and put a TODO item to change that, because - 1 minute is not long, and its non trivial to change it safely.
[08:00] <lifeless> by safely I mean that commits to bzr/bzrtools *can break launchpad*.
[08:00] <lifeless> so they have to run the lp test suite. But also run theirs.
[08:01] <lifeless> so I need to figure out how to usefully get that behaviour
[08:01] <SteveA> okay, file a bug please
[08:01] <lifeless> k
[08:02] <lifeless> interfaceverification - did you get a chance to read it ? (I've updated it)
[08:05] <SteveA> no, not read it yet
[08:07] <lifeless> ok
[08:07] <lifeless> I have some useful profiling data now
[08:07] <lifeless> if I read it right we spend ~ 3 minutes in the launchpad test suite
[08:07] <lifeless> and 27 minutes in postgresql
[08:09] <lifeless> bug 5378
[08:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5378: dont run the bzrtools and bzr tests on make check_merge In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5378
[09:23] <sivang> morning all
[10:02] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[10:02] <SteveA> spiv: hello
[10:02] <SteveA> lifeless: hello
[10:02] <lifeless> meeting time
[10:03] <SteveA> so it is
[10:07] <sivang> development meeting?
[10:07] <lifeless> bazaar-launchpad meeting
[10:07] <sivang> lifeless: is anybody free to watch?
[10:07] <daf> morning
[10:08] <sivang> morning daf
[10:08] <lifeless> its not a particularly open meeting no.
[10:08] <daf> hmm, should I be able to see https://staging.ubuntu.com/errors?
[10:08] <lifeless> given its mainly about whos doing what when
[10:08] <lifeless> its also not particularly interesting ;)
[10:08] <sivang> ok :)
[10:15] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[10:25] <SteveA> spiv: if you're online, please come onto #c-m
[10:38] <mantiena> SteveA, Hi
[10:38] <SteveA> hi.  i'm in a meeting right now.
[10:38] <mantiena> SteveA, in POV ?
[10:38] <SteveA> no
[10:38] <SteveA> on irc
[10:39] <mantiena> SteveA: jamesh told me, that you could help me to register Ubuntu-Based Baltix GNU/Linux distribution on launchpad
[10:42] <SteveA> yes.  i'll need to talk with some people who will be online in a few hours.  they're working on that part of launchpad right now.
[10:43] <mantiena> SteveA, I've registered bugreport about this, look at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3550
[10:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3550: There are no way to register a new distribution on https://launchpad.net/distros In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3550
[10:44] <SteveA> thanks
[10:44] <SteveA> i'll assign it to kiko
[10:50] <mantiena> SteveA, thank you, I wanna use launchpad for Baltix development and bugreporting, this would give improvements not only to Baltix, but also to launchpad, because then it will be translated to lithuanian language ;)
[10:50] <SteveA> cool
[10:51] <SteveA> although, the launchpad team have some work to do to make launchpad internationalizable
[10:51] <SteveA> localizable
[10:51] <SteveA> make it internationalized
[10:51] <SteveA> wow.. .such long words, and so confusing ;-)
[10:51] <SteveA> mantiena: how many people work with you on baltix?
[10:55] <SteveA> jamesh: hello.  i see that ErrorReportManagement is "merge-conditional".  what's left to do before it lands?
[11:00] <mantiena> SteveA, on developing (programing, patching, etc) mainly only I, but on translating, bugreporting and making artwork/documentation there are working about 4-6
[11:03] <SteveA> mantiena: bradb will be visiting vilnius for a week, to work with me on malone.  it would be good if you can visit, and show us how you use launchpad, particularly for bug tracking, and what you want improved
[11:04] <mantiena> SteveA, when exactly bradb will be in Vilnius ?
[11:05] <SteveA> next week, working with me monday to friday
[11:06] <jamesh> SteveA: I'm just fixing the things stub mentioned.  The other thing that is necessary is to decide what the new config values should be set to for staging, production1, production2, etc
[11:19] <SteveA> jamesh: what do you recommend they are set to?
[11:21] <jamesh> SteveA: copy_to_zlog can be off for production and staging.  probably just assign error code prefixes A,B,... for production systems, maybe 'S' for staging
[11:21] <jamesh> SteveA: I don't know what directory would be safe to get the error logs written to
[11:21] <SteveA> ok
[11:21] <SteveA> there is a directory for that already
[11:22] <SteveA> launchpad@gangotri:/srv/launchpad.net/production-logs$ ls
[11:22] <SteveA> launchpad-access1.log  launchpad-access2.log  launchpad1.log  launchpad2.log
[11:23] <SteveA> so, the logs for production can all just go in there
[11:24] <SteveA> that directory is rsynced to chinstrap often
[11:25] <SteveA> jamesh: where would error logs go on development machines?
[11:27] <jamesh> SteveA: at the moment they go into a directory under /var/tmp
[11:28] <SteveA> what happens if the chosen directory doesn't exist?
[11:29] <jamesh> it gets created
[11:29] <Kinnison> SteveA: How does one get at tracebacks on staging?
[11:29] <SteveA> Kinnison: wait until jamesh's latest stuff lands...
[11:29] <daf> https://staging.ubuntu.com/errors yields a 403
[11:29] <daf> ah, hmm
[11:30] <daf> SteveA: I can't reproduce the oops you found locally
[11:30] <SteveA> that's good.
[11:31] <SteveA> there's a team you need to be in
[11:31] <SteveA> to see tracebacks
[11:31] <SteveA> this team was changed from launchpad-admins recently to some other less powerful team
[11:31] <SteveA> bug maybe you're not in that team
[11:31] <daf> aha
[11:32] <daf> I can't see any teams you're in that I'm not in, other than "ShipIt Administrators" and "Ubuntu Drivers"
[11:34] <SteveA> i don't see TBs either
[11:34] <SteveA> what's stub in?
[11:35] <daf> he's in Zope Developers
[11:35] <SteveA> ?
[11:37] <daf> in addition to LP Admins and LP Developers, which we're also in
[11:39] <SteveA> are you in the team whose name is 'launchpad' ?
[11:40] <daf> yes
[11:40] <SteveA> they are ones who should see tracebacks
[11:40] <daf> (that's the "Launchpad Developers" one)
[11:40] <SteveA> something about the traceback showing is broken
[11:40] <SteveA> please file a bug about it
[11:41] <daf> ok
[11:43] <SteveA> i'll sort out some visibility of staging logs on chinstrap
[11:45] <daf> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5381
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5381: Launchpad doesn't show tracebacks for oopses to Launchpad developers In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5381
[12:02] <mantiena> SteveA, I don't know if I will have free time to come to Vilnius next week, but there are chances, that I will come to Vilnius tomorrow
[12:02] <SteveA> or maybe the weekend?  brad will still be around on saturday 17th
[12:04] <mantiena> ok, please write me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>a lettter, when brad will come to Vilnius
[12:04] <SteveA> ok
[12:05] <SteveA> i'll check with brad when he arrives on irc in a few hours
[12:07] <SteveA> hi niemeyer
[12:07] <SteveA> ddaa will be sending a summary of this morning's meeting
[12:07] <niemeyer> Good morning!
[12:07] <Kinnison> Hi niemeyer
[12:07] <niemeyer> Great! Thanks
[12:07] <SteveA> there wasn't much discussed, except making progress on the various tasks
[12:08] <niemeyer> Kinnison: Greetings!
[12:08] <niemeyer> Kinnison: Feeling better?
[12:08] <Kinnison> niemeyer: Much better thanks
[12:08] <SteveA> daf, Kinnison: soon, there will be logs from staging appearing on chinstrap in /srv/asuka-logs.  these logs are kinda crappy right now.  as soon as jamesh's error reporting code lands, they'll be vastly better.
[12:08] <Kinnison> niemeyer: although my left hip hurts
[12:09] <SteveA> Kinnison: diodes?
[12:09] <daf> SteveA: groovy, thanks
[12:09] <Kinnison> SteveA: brain
[12:09] <Kinnison> I am *so* good without caffeine
[12:10] <daf> NotFoundError: (None, 'title')
[12:10] <daf> seems to be the culprit
[12:10] <Kinnison> daf: Coo
[12:10] <daf> well, we do have caffeine
[12:10] <Kinnison> daf: It's all wrong
[12:10] <Kinnison> daf: Nescaf? Yuck
[12:10] <Kinnison> daf: Earl Grey? (asthma inducing mugs of death)
[12:10] <daf> yes, it is all wrong
[12:11] <Kinnison> daf: PG Tips? (I'd rather drink my own vomit)
[12:11] <SteveA> Kinnison: bergamot gives you asthma?
[12:11] <Kinnison> SteveA: aye
[12:11] <SteveA> cripes
[12:12] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:12] <SteveA> daf: the error is caused by a page template doring foo/title
[12:12] <SteveA> um, doing
[12:12] <SteveA> where we don't know what 'foo' is, but its value is None
[12:12] <SteveA> whereas it is expected to be something else
[12:13] <daf> right
[12:13] <daf> sadly, the log doesn't seem to offer any clues about where the foo in question might be
[12:13] <SteveA> jamesh: have you seen the stuff that the warning handler does in launchpad to find out useful stuff about what page template and view etc. has been involved in the warning?
[12:13] <SteveA> daf: next, look at the page template in question, and look for /title in it
[12:13] <jamesh> SteveA: no.  Do you have a pointer?
[12:14] <SteveA> these are the candidates for causing the error
[12:14] <SteveA> jamesh:  launchpad/warninghandler.py
[12:14] <SteveA> jamesh: it is horridly crufty hackery
[12:14] <SteveA> but might provide useful extra info for error logging, if you want to polish it later
[12:16] <daf> the error doesn't state which page template it is
[12:17] <SteveA> daf: right.  but, you can work it out, because you know the URL
[12:17] <daf> but we think it might be binarypackagerelease-index.pt, which doesn't have any direct occurrences of 'title'
[12:17] <daf> is there a sure way of mapping URLs to page templates that I've forgotten about?
[12:18] <SteveA> if you can get the page to render locally
[12:19] <mantiena> SteveA, hehe, it seems I don't come to Vilnius tomorrow, Baltix will be awarded later in this week or in next week ;)
[12:19] <daf> I've got http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/hoary/i386/pmount/0.1-1 rendering locally
[12:19] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning
[12:19] <daf> hi mpt
[12:20] <mpt> hi daf, welcome back :-)
[12:20] <mpt> (somewhat belatedly)
[12:20] <SteveA> mantiena: awarded what exactly?
[12:22] <SteveA> well, congratulations anyway ;-)
[12:22] <daf> mpt: thanks
[12:26] <mantiena> SteveA, thanks, I can't find info about Infobalt awards in english :( I can just provide a link for news in Lithuanian:
[12:26] <mantiena> http://www.2005.infobalt.lt/?&r=622&i=6626
[12:26] <mpt> arg
[12:29] <mpt> hmm, actually, that's my fault
[12:34] <kiko> hey SteveA
[12:55] <SteveA> mantiena: a truputi galiu skaityti
[12:55] <kiko> SteveA, should view classes use results.count()?
[12:55] <kiko> or should they assume they are not using SQLObject things?
[12:55] <SteveA> o, a inau apie infobalt
[12:56] <daf> SteveA: we've discovered that running the publisher fixes the oops
[12:56] <SteveA> kiko: it is a vague contract.  whatever is easiest
[12:56] <SteveA> daf: it means that something is returning an object, or None.  And the view is not expecting the None.
[12:56] <kiko> okay.
[01:02] <Kinnison> Indeed, I'm betting Mark's magic code doesn't play well with PENDING packages
[01:04] <SteveA> kiko: adding a new distro to launchpad.  can we just do it?  anything to worry about wrt the other infrastructure?
[01:04] <kiko> let's not do it now
[01:04] <kiko> there's a lot to worry about
[01:05] <kiko> I'm recommending creating a product for now
[01:05] <kiko> we can move bugs and translations over
[01:05] <kiko> we won't have support for anything fancy for distros anyway
[01:05] <SteveA> the baltix guys want to have their distro in launchpad, so that they can do bug tracking, translating etc .for it
[01:05] <SteveA> they're an ubuntu derivative
[01:05] <kiko> I know
[01:05] <kiko> so is Impi
[01:06] <SteveA> this is put off until we open dapper properly?
[01:06] <kiko> until we understand the consequences of creating new distros and releases better
[01:11] <mpt> Serious question: How are we going to understand it without trying it?
[01:12] <kiko> mpt, by reading the code and thinking about the consequences.
[01:13] <SteveA> and by trying it on dogfood / staging
[01:14] <kiko> for which you don't need the link
[01:14] <kiko> note that dogfood/staging don't do some of our production tasks last I checked
[01:25] <SteveA> mantiena: you won the "best alternative" award at infobalt?  that's really cool.  you should get it announced on fridge.ubuntu.com
[01:27] <SteveA> mantiena<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:54] <daf> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5390
[01:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[01:55] <SteveA> daf: no need for it to be private
[01:55] <daf> ok
[02:06] <mpt> SteveA, in mpt/2005-12-layout/ I've turned +logout into a separate logout confirmation page, but I don't know how to make it work (the submit button currently takes you back to where you were but doesn't log you out)
[02:06] <kiko> mpt, a /separate/ logout page?
[02:07] <mpt> kiko, as requested by Mark
[02:07] <kiko> wtf?
[02:08] <mpt> because the button was taking up too much space
[02:08] <kiko> huh?
[02:08] <kiko> what does that have to do with a separate logout page?
[02:09] <mpt> making it a link requires confirmation, because links by themselves don't do anything
[02:09] <kiko> can't we break that rule there?
[02:09] <kiko> I mean, a separate logout page will mean I will never use it
[02:09] <mpt> I know *sigh*
[02:09] <mpt> Perhaps we can persuade Mark to let it be an image instead
[02:09] <SteveA> mpt: i'm about to go get lunch. would you file a bug on me for it, and leave it as an immediate link for now
[02:10] <kiko> mpt, how would an image be better than a button? why don't you just style the button as a link?
[02:10] <mpt> that's not possible afaik
[02:11] <SteveA> i want to get this new layout landed in some form as soon as possible
[02:11] <mpt> at least, you could make the border and background transparent in some browsers, but not decrease the height as a result
[02:11] <SteveA> if that means cutting some corners and fixing them up later, that's okay
[02:12] <mpt> SteveA, so you want me to revert it, or can you just finish off the sitemap and land it without merging from me again?
[02:12] <mpt> (that requires you to have already branched from my layout branch)
[02:12] <SteveA> mpt: is it possible to make the LHS of the site map work, just as it is?
[02:13] <SteveA> for the link / logout page, make it work as a link rather than a button.  that should require no code change.
[02:13] <mpt> SteveA, only with lots of URL-related tal:conditions in main-template.pt
[02:14] <SteveA> you could do it with no highlighting, though
[02:14] <mpt> oh, right
[02:14] <SteveA> it will be quite fast to get the code done to make it work, and to do something better with the logout functions
[02:14] <SteveA> i'd rather get this landed, than it be on a branch until it is perfect
[02:15] <jordi> kiko: did you fixup your bzr?
[02:16] <kiko> jordi, yes, I did. I am still busy but will be free as the week progresses
[02:17] <kiko> salgado, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5389
[02:17] <kiko>  -- who is going to work on this? matsubara?
[02:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5389: System error if you specify an inexistent assignee in any advanced search for bugs In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5389
[02:18] <jordi> ok kiko
[02:18] <jordi> kiko: just replied, btw
[02:19] <kiko> I saw that, thanks
[02:30] <salgado> kiko, could be
[02:31] <kiko> salgado?
[02:32] <salgado> kiko, yes, matsubara can work on that
[02:34] <kiko> cool.
[02:34] <kiko> salgado, assign it?
[02:39] <salgado> assigned
[03:20] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/4041 ('Change' and 'Deactivate' buttons are shown twice in a membership page) (r2891: Guilherme Salgado)
[03:25] <kiko> mpt, is there a bug reported on Launchpad help?
[03:51] <mpt> kiko, I think so
[03:51] <mpt> there's a spec on it, anyway
[03:51] <mpt> though iirc the spec and the bug aren't linked
[03:56] <sivang> mpt: do you have the link to the spec?
[03:56] <sivang> mpt: btw, have you produced any glade UI for HUB ? :)
[03:56] <sivang> (I recall you told me you were trying to roll something on SAT)
[03:56] <mpt> what's SAT?
[03:57] <mpt> oh, Saturday
[03:57] <mpt> not yet, sorry, I was trying unsuccessfully to cram-study Portuguese
[03:57] <mpt> sivang, https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadPageHelp
[03:58] <mpt> It's really low priority for me as long as Launchpad itself is so very ... improvable
[03:58] <mpt> because time spent improving Launchpad is a much better investment than time writing help
[03:58] <sivang> mpt: yes, I understand :)
[04:03] <ddaa> mpt: you just made a landmark in political correctness.
[04:03] <mpt> hmm?
[04:04] <ddaa> English: foo sucks. Politically Correct: foo is very much improvable :)
[04:04] <mpt> :-)
[04:04] <sivang> mpt: I might undergo some substantial real life changes soon ;-) , if so I might attempt something like that for launchpad, I've been pervertly interested in that since LP boomed in size, complexity and number of components, views etc.... and so this could be a nice way to actually learn about all what it can offer
[04:05] <sivang> ah nice, he just vanished
[04:40] <SteveA> bradb_: hi
[04:42] <bradb_> SteveA: Hi. I've got Skype set up.
[04:43] <SteveA> cool.  let's try it
[04:52] <sivang> bradb_: cool :)
[04:55] <bradb_> powerbook++ # kickass built-in mic
[04:55] <LarstiQ> bradb_: hah, talking to your laptop? ;)
[04:58] <sivang> bradb, SteveA : using the QT statically linked version?
[04:58] <bradb> sivang: OS X for me
[04:59] <bradb> Je rcompense l'utilisabilit
[05:00] <sivang> bradb: ah right :)
[05:01] <sivang> hmm I wonder if there is a word "utilisability"
[05:01] <sivang> (/me used altavista's babel fish to find out what that means)
[05:02] <bradb> usability
[05:09] <ddaa> okay that's offtopic, but still...
[05:10] <sivang> ddaa: true, sorry.
[05:10] <ddaa> does anybody knows if there's a way to tell postfix to _completely_ skip DNS lookups for a relayhost, so I can set the relayhost to "[smtp] " and configure the address in my /etc/hosts?
[05:10] <ddaa> sivang: that ^ is offtopic :)
[05:11] <sivang> ddaa: lol
[05:12] <lamont__> ddaa: [hostname]  will look for the A RR, according to /var/spool/postfix/etc/nsswitch.conf
[05:13] <SteveA> jamesh: still around?
[05:13] <ddaa> lamont__: hu... okay the issue is when I'm on one specific network, I have to relay mail through my ISP, but on other networks I want to use direct delivery because the ISP won't let me use its SMTP from outside.
[05:13] <jamesh> SteveA: just about to go to bed
[05:13] <ddaa> And since I'm switching networks using the GUI network configuration tool, I want to set the actual relay address there.
[05:14] <SteveA> jamesh: okay.  can you say a few words about where you feel the bugzilla import is at?
[05:14] <lamont__> ddaa: you could edit /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and use that nsswitch.conf, I expect.
[05:14] <ddaa> haha... "disable_dns_lookups"...
[05:14] <lamont__> it still takes hostnames, not IP's
[05:14] <ddaa> lamont__: AFAIK the GUI network config does not know about postfix at all
[05:15] <lamont__> prolly not
[05:15] <ddaa> I'd rather keep the network switching logic all in there...
[05:15] <jamesh> SteveA: pretty good.  I've got to finish off the milestone migration code (should be finished tomorrow morning), but I think it'd be okay to run on production soon (I should do a final run on staging first though)
[05:16] <jamesh> SteveA: assuming there aren't any test failures I didn't catch, the ErrorReportManagement code should merge tonight
[05:16] <SteveA> that's awesome
[05:17] <SteveA> i'll talk with kiko and see when we can do a gina run, so we can get bugzilla merged
[05:17] <ddaa> Yay!
[05:18] <ddaa> lamont__: disable_dns_lookups = yes
[05:18] <ddaa> relayhost = [smtp]
[05:18] <ddaa> that works
[05:18] <lamont__> cool
[05:18] <ddaa> Dunno if that qualifies as a gross hack, though :)
[05:29] <SteveA> lamont__: do you have a secret stash... of documentation on how to set up postfix on ubuntu to use an authenticated smart host?
[05:31] <lamont__> SteveA: remind me of your email addr, and I'll toss you what lifeless sent me... :-)
[05:32] <SteveA> lamont: steve @ canonical.com
[05:33] <kiko-fud> SteveA, I know how to do it if you like
[05:33] <lamont__> tossed at you
[05:34] <kiko-fud> SteveA, short answer: when the publisher test finishes.
[05:34] <kiko-fud> long answer: AAR#H#@Y*#@HFEWIOFJEW
[05:39] <kiko> bradb, what's the status with the InitialBugContacts work?
[05:40] <lamont__> kiko: picking on Jew's again?
[05:40] <lamont__> nm
[05:41] <lamont__> :-)
[05:42] <bradb> kiko: I'm blocked on adding sample data. I've backseated it for other things too (like status changes and bug fixes for pages raising exceptions.) I can submit the sample data changes today though and should be able to land it this week, if nothing else comes up.
[05:42] <kiko> that would be ideal
[05:47] <SteveA> bradb: hotel all booked.
[05:47] <bradb> SteveA: got the confirmation email, thanks
[05:47] <cprov> matsubara: are you happy with my suggestion for fixing typo within the current CoC, did you get the key tricky to re-sign it ?
[05:51] <SteveA> lamont__: i don't actually have postfix installed yet.  what installation option should i use when installing, to then follow these instructions?
[05:51] <lamont__> SteveA: I'm betting on 'internet site'
[05:51] <lamont__> or rather, internet site with smarthost
[05:52] <SteveA> ta, i'll give it a go
[06:08] <SteveA> lamont__: any idea how to convert a sasl_passwd into a sasl_passwd.db ?
[06:08] <lamont__> no clue - prolly just a hash map
[06:09] <kiko> postmap
[06:09] <SteveA> ta
[06:18] <SteveA> lamont__: thanks for the docs.  i think i have it working!
[06:19] <lamont__> SteveA: infinity? is creating something to let us piggy-back ssl certs on the machine, and then I'm supposed to automate that setup
[06:20] <SteveA> i have my own smarthost, so i just use that from everywhere
[06:20] <BjornT> SteveA, kiko, salgado: any of you available for code reviews today?
[06:20] <SteveA> so long as there aren't annoying semi-transparent proxies (negligee proxies...) that jump on port 25
[06:20] <SteveA> BjornT: i'm doing reviews for ddaa and mpt today
[06:21] <kiko> BjornT, I'm very overbooked, how big are they?
[06:21] <BjornT> SteveA: ok
[06:23] <BjornT> kiko: the ones i have up for review are 1300 and 1500 lines.
[06:23] <kiko> I think I am going to hide under my bed
[06:24] <salgado> BjornT, I'll take your ticket-tracker-outgoing-email today
[06:24] <lamont__> SteveA: never heard that term for them before, but i like it.
[06:24] <SteveA> they're considered kinda rude in some more conservative communities
[06:25] <SteveA> but you get them a lot in the less savoury hotels
[06:25] <lamont__> and HP
[06:25] <lamont__> :-(
[06:26] <ddaa> SteveA: I'm still around if you have quick questions while reviewing
[06:26] <SteveA> ddaa: i have a couple of other things to do before i get stuck into the reviews
[06:27] <ddaa> NP, not rushing you, busing writing the meeting summary.
[06:30] <BjornT> kiko: in case you didn't get it before my connection died: < BjornT> kiko: the ones i have up for review are 1300 and 1500 lines.
[06:30] <kiko> I got it
[06:30] <kiko> and I said
[06:30] <kiko> I think I am going to hide under my bed
[06:32] <BjornT> kiko: ok :) i understand that you have a lot to do atm
[06:33] <BjornT> thanks salgado
[06:35] <SteveA> kiko: is mpt around?  i just reviewed his new layout branch.
[06:36] <kiko> he should be
[06:36] <salgado> BjornT, you're welcome
[06:36] <salgado> kiko, SteveA, he's not here
[06:36] <salgado> maybe he went for his pt_BR classes
[06:37] <kiko> probably
[06:53] <SteveA> ddaa, BjornT: i just reviewed the productseries doc stuff from david.  then i noticed that bjorn had already reviewed it.  did i have an old pending-reviews page or something?
[06:54] <ddaa> it's merge-approved on BjornT's section on the PendingReviews page I have.
[06:54] <SteveA> yeah
[06:55] <SteveA> so now it is doubly approved
[06:55] <SteveA> i think i made one different comment
[06:55] <ddaa> Too much honor for a trivial doctest...
[06:55] <ddaa> Anyway, thanks, I love people to comment on my code.
[06:55] <ddaa> What I do not like is sometimes having to fix my code after the comments ;)
[06:56] <salgado> what's that "[06:56] <ddaa> mh... that probably means that a merge attempted to rename a file to a name that was already used.
[06:57] <ddaa> The right thing to do would be putting the stuff from productseries.txt.moved into productseries.txt
[06:58] <ddaa> Or maybe... that the merge created a file and moved an existing file away.
[06:58] <ddaa> anyhow, that looks like a name conflict
[06:58] <SteveA> ddaa: the setup_module branch
[06:58] <SteveA> i do not think it makes the code clearer
[06:58] <SteveA> it makes the code *shorter*
[06:59] <SteveA> but i don't think it becomes clearer
[06:59] <ddaa> Mh. Right.
[06:59] <SteveA> actually, it doesn't make the code shorter
[06:59] <SteveA>  ftests/helpers.py                     |   89 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[06:59] <SteveA>  ftests/test_keyringtrustanalyser.py   |    9 ---
[06:59] <SteveA>  ftests/test_librarianformatter.py     |   11 +---
[06:59] <SteveA>  ftests/test_po_attach.py              |   12 +++-
[06:59] <SteveA>  tests/test_librarianformatter_noca.py |   10 ---
[06:59] <SteveA>  tests/test_rundoctests.py             |    4 -
[06:59] <ddaa> I just do not like to have a slightly different and subtly wrong boilerplate in everyfile.
[06:59] <ddaa> It does not make the code shorter because all the files were not converted
[06:59] <SteveA> it is a valid point
[07:00] <SteveA> i think there is too much magic in your solution
[07:00] <ddaa> only a few, to illustrate the point
[07:00] <SteveA> we need to find a way to do something like what you propose, but that keeps things from being magical, or too implicit
[07:00] <ddaa> yeah, the zope doctest infrastructure is making my life really hard
[07:00] <ddaa> It's magic to work around the zope magic.
[07:00] <SteveA> i think you're exaggerating
[07:00] <SteveA> i think it is a minor annoyance
[07:01] <ddaa> Feel free to say "interested, but not now"
[07:01] <ddaa> I mostly wanted to raise the issue for discussion.
[07:01] <SteveA> the other thing is, those 89 lines in ftests/helpers.py are not tested
[07:01] <ddaa> They are tested.
[07:01] <ddaa> When running the tests :)
[07:02] <SteveA> so, i think we should talk about this sometime, and work out what your frustrations with the infrastructure are, and how to fix it
[07:02] <SteveA> probably in a similar way to that which you have prototyped
[07:02] <ddaa> I'm happy to remove that stuff from importd2bzr
[07:02] <ddaa> as long as this branch stays in someone's queue for discussion
[07:03] <ddaa> maybe that would make a meeting item for wednesday :)
[07:03] <SteveA> i think the best thing would be for you to file a bug on this, and reference the branch in the bug
[07:03] <ddaa> Who should I assign the bug to?
[07:03] <SteveA> me
[07:03] <ddaa> Fine.
[07:04] <ddaa> after dinner :)
[07:05] <SteveA> ok
[07:07] <SteveA> mpt: i reviewed your new layout branch.
[07:07] <SteveA> mpt: the menus branch hasn't been mirrored fully, or something like that
[07:10] <mpt> SteveA, is PQM off chinstrap now?
[07:10] <mpt> if so I can finish my mass conversion
[07:12] <elmo> no, it's not
[07:12] <kiko-afk> nope
[07:14] <mhz> hi
[07:14] <kiko-afk> hey mhz
[07:14] <kiko-afk> did you ever get your problem sorted out?
[07:14] <mhz> hi kiko-afk
[07:15] <mhz> nope. However, the platform still works
[07:15] <mhz> it is just that the annoying email error still lives :)
[07:17] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: stage 1 of ErrorReportManagement, r=stub (r2892: James Henstridge)
[07:17] <SteveA> hurrah
[07:17] <SteveA> jamesh: congratulations
[07:18] <kiko-afk> jamesh, ROCK ON
[07:18] <kiko-afk> mhz, remind me what the problem is.
[07:19] <mhz> kiko-afk: okis. Basically, I created a team, I was asked to confirm email-address and Kapooom! error.
[07:19] <mhz> hoever, people could still join
[07:19] <kiko-afk> and what lingering effect has it had?
[07:20] <mhz> could you rephrase that, please?
[07:22] <kiko-afk> mhz -- what problem has remained?
[07:23] <mhz> kiko-afk: BTW, nothing to do but.. Is there anyway one can actually create a 'new specification' from a Team that is already part of a distro? Instead of creating it from the whole listing of specs page?
[07:23] <mhz> kiko-afk: BTW, nothing to do but.. Is there anyway one can actually create a 'new specification' from a Team that is already part of a distro? Instead of creating it from the whole listing of specs page?
[07:23] <mhz> kiko-afk: mail confirmation is the problem I saw the last 2 days i tried to get confirmed
[07:24] <matsubara> mhz: is this bug 5122
[07:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5122: Validate email in team In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5122
[07:24] <matsubara> ?
[07:24] <matsubara> mhz: if it is, it's already fixed. Landed on RF and will be on production soon.
[07:25] <mhz> matsubara: kiko-afk: indeed. same problem
[07:25] <kiko-afk> mhz, you can only create specs if you attach them to targets -- distros or products.
[07:26] <mhz> kiko-afk: oh, ok.
[07:27] <mhz> So, what is the objective on having DistroTeams (example: EdubuntuStudyContent team) ?
[07:28] <mhz> Where do they list all the team activitity/ToDo's ?
[07:28] <salgado> matsubara, I guess bug 5389 is the root cause of what mhz is experiencing
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5389: System error if you specify an inexistent assignee in any advanced search for bugs In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5389
[07:28] <salgado> bug 5398, even
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5398: When creating a new team, we need to check if the given contact email address is not already registered in Launchpad In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5398
[07:29] <matsubara> salgado: I'll check, just a min.
[07:32] <salgado> matsubara, how are you going to check that?
[07:33] <matsubara> salgado: I meant I was going to check the bug description. :)
[07:58] <pablo> hi?
[08:02] <mhz> pablo: hey
[08:02] <mhz> kiko-afk: So, what is the objective on having DistroTeams (example: EdubuntuStudyContent team) ?
[08:02] <pablo> i need some help with evolution
[08:02] <pablo> (the mail client for ubuntu)
[08:03] <kiko-afk> mhz, a team is an arbitrary grouping of people
[08:03] <mhz> kiko-afk: yup
[08:03] <kiko-afk> it can be used to restrict access to certain things
[08:03] <kiko-afk> and to direct messages
[08:03] <kiko-afk> that's essentially it.
[08:03] <kiko-afk> pablo, try #ubuntu
[08:04] <pablo> ok- thanks
[08:04] <mhz> kiko-afk: and how people (groups) can use LP to cordinate work?
[08:04] <mhz> pablo: o bien, #ubuntu-es
[08:04] <kiko-afk> mhz, that's a very open question -- essentially, it depends on what they are doing.
[08:04] <mhz> pablo: o bien, #edubuntu-es if you need edubuntu help
[08:06] <mhz> kiko-afk: indeed. I thought LP was meant for groups to cordinate their work.  Is there a way to get em on dvd????
[08:09] <kiko-afk> Ireul, no.
[08:09] <Ireul> :(
[08:09] <Ireul> are the cds totally free?
[08:09] <Lord_Athur> yes, the Cds are
[08:10] <Ireul> Lord_Athur: yoda's speaking habit??? :)
[08:11] <Lord_Athur> a?
[08:11] <Lord_Athur> jajaja
[08:11] <Ireul> failed I am, in exile I must go...
[08:12] <mhz> Ireul: but you could download them
[08:12] <Ireul> mhz: already ordered
[08:12] <mhz> the DVS?
[08:12] <Ireul> mhz: is debian based? At what point?
[08:12] <Ireul> mhz: 5 pc cds
[08:13] <mhz> Ireul: what are you talking about? 2 Ubuntu CD's
[08:13] <mhz> oh, I see
[08:13] <mhz> you ordered 5 pieces
[08:13] <mhz> you'll get 10 CD's (5 install and 5 livecd)
[08:14] <Ireul> yes I don't need 64 and macos one
[08:29] <Ireul> mhz: ok
[08:46] <bradb> SteveA: ping (quick q about defining a custom exception)
[08:48] <SteveA> ok
[08:49] <bradb> SteveA: I want to define a custom exception, DuplicateBugContactError(ValueError) and put this in interfaces/distributionsourcepackage.py. This will allow me to provide a more clear error message ("DuplicateBugContactError: foo is already a bug contact for bar."), and more fine-grained error handling. Is this approach okay with you?
[08:49] <SteveA> it is a good idea.  not sure why it would be a ValueError though
[08:50] <bradb> Because the type is correct, but something about the value itself is not.
[08:50] <bradb> (in this case, that the person is already a bug contact on the package)
[08:50] <SteveA> i can imagine this error being raised due to many circumstances, and not exactly because it was an inappropriate argument value
[08:50] <SteveA> just make it an Exception
[08:50] <bradb> ok
[08:50] <SteveA> also
[08:51] <SteveA> if an error is named so that it obviously sounds like a problem, you don't need to say "Error"
[08:51] <SteveA> i don't think DuplicateBugContact qualifies
[08:51] <SteveA> but if you can think of a way to say it that is definitely an error, then you can use that name
[08:53] <bradb> I can't think of anything better right now. I think I'll just go with DBCE for now.
[08:53] <salgado> bradb, this makes me wonder if we shouldn't have a new vocabulary for bug contacts
[08:54] <bradb> That might be useful as well.
[08:55] <salgado> and you wouldn't need neither this check nor the new exception
[08:57] <bradb> The exception would still be needed.
[08:58] <bradb> e.g. there's a race condition there
[08:58] <salgado> that's right. the exception is in database code
[08:58] <salgado> I misread that as a ValidationError
[09:12] <kiko-afk> nice meeting summary ddaa
[09:14] <SteveA> ddaa: i reviewed importd2bzr.  it's good.
[09:15] <SteveA> ddaa: one reason that using sys.exit() anywhere except the "i'm a script, run me" entry-point is that it makes it very hard to test parts of the code that might call sys.exit()
[09:17] <ddaa> SteveA: why so, it's just throwing an exception...
[09:19] <SteveA> dealing with it means catching SystemExit, which is evil
[09:19] <kiko-afk> ev1l
[09:19] <kiko-afk> bradb, tell me all about bug 3620
[09:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3620: Default bug list should include Pending Upload bugs In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: NeedInfo https://launchpad.net/bugs/3620
[09:20] <ddaa> SteveA: why is it evil? The only thing that can throw that exception is sys.exit... you mean some code _not_ to exit, catching SystemExit is exactly what you want.
[09:20] <kiko-afk> uhhh
[09:20] <kiko-afk> whoa
[09:20] <ddaa> I'm not arguing, I'm curious.
[09:21] <bradb> kiko-afk: Malone makes it easy to file duplicate bugs. The "default bug listing" is not the right one to use to search to see if your bug has already been reported.
[09:21] <bradb> That the default listing doesn't include bugs of $status isn't itself a bug thing, but the UI doesn't make obvious what one *should* do to answer the question "Has my bug already been reported."
[09:21] <SteveA> searching for bugs already reported is an important part of the workflow we want people to adopt
[09:22] <bradb> Hence, in response to 3620, I think just doing a guided bug form is best.
[09:22] <SteveA> what about having a page optimised for that?
[09:22] <SteveA> or a mode of a page optimized for that.  mpt: what do you think?
[09:22] <kiko-afk> bradb, okay. agreed. but remember it is not a blocker for the migration, and that some of the top priorities are still TBD
[09:22] <kiko-afk> SteveA, mpt, bradb and I worked on a guided bug form 11 months ago
[09:23] <bradb> kiko-afk: That it's not a blocker for migration was already pretty clear to me.
[09:23] <kiko-afk> okay
[09:23] <kiko-afk> I just want to make sure you are focused on the migration priorities -- IBC being the main one
[09:24] <bradb> That's what I had been working on before this context switch. ;)
[09:24] <kiko-afk> ooooooookay I am going to be quiet now
[09:26] <mpt> go pagetests go
[09:53] <niemeyer> kiko: It should be a blob column, not a string.
[09:54] <mpt> SteveA, new page layout is in PQM
[09:54] <kiko> niemeyer, librarian.
[09:54] <SteveA> mpt: woo
[09:54] <kiko> which means...
[09:55] <ddaa> SteveA: what about a montly shiny award?
[09:55] <ddaa> we've got a winner for this month :)
[09:55] <SteveA> who is Montly Shiny and what's he doing in this channel?
[09:55] <ddaa> Monthly...
[09:57] <kiko> lol
[10:01] <LarstiQ> ddaa: I think I understood you, but my thinking has been proven wrong before
[10:02] <ddaa> Yeah, people say that to me... ;)
[10:03] <niemeyer> kiko: Nice.. let's read more crippled data into the database.
[10:03] <mpt> ddaa, awards are often named after people, such that a misspelled word in that position could be assumed to be a name
[10:03] <kiko> niemeyer, using the librarian is definitely safe
[10:03] <ddaa> you breaker of dreams
[10:04] <ddaa> mpt: I was imagining all sorts of unspeakably kinky and borderline distateful things.
[10:04] <niemeyer> kiko: Indeed.. That's the right way to do it.
[10:04] <kiko> SteveA, have you read the answer to "What exception should I raise when something passed into an API isn't quite right?" in LaunchpadHackingFAQ?
[10:04] <ddaa> mainly involving baby jesus butt plugs...
[10:04] <niemeyer> kiko: I have.. and got review problems following the rules there. :)
[10:05] <kiko> heh
[10:06] <SteveA> kiko: it is out of date.  the advice there is more attuned to library or framework code than to application code such as makes up most of launchpad
[10:06] <kiko> SteveA, what should I do?
[10:06] <kiko> I could just nuke it and replace with your suggestion
[10:07] <SteveA> kiko: leave the section about docstrings.  mention canonical.launchpad.interfaces.NotFoundError
[10:07] <SteveA> nuke the rest
[10:07] <mhz> kiko: ooops, finally. I was mistaken about the name. It's not tuto but TUTOS http://www.tutos.org/homepage/
[10:07] <kiko> rock and roll
[10:08] <kiko> hey, when was ubuntite renamed to ubuntero?
[10:08] <kiko> no email ever went out to me on this
[10:08] <kiko> mhz, that page uses the <blink> tag
[10:09] <kiko> mhz, and no, we don't support project management in launchpad (yet)
[10:09] <lifeless> morning!
[10:09] <mhz> kiko: so why would a Team (inside a distro) register for? What are the advantages?
[10:10] <kiko> mhz, mainly for ownership purposes.
[10:10] <kiko> and bug-subscriptions
[10:10] <kiko> etc
[10:11] <mhz> kiko: yup, my concern is the 'etc'. I have only noticed Bugs and 'ownership' as the only advantages.
[10:11] <kiko> there's also translation teams
[10:12] <mhz> if a team is in fact commited to work, they need to create teams related specifications members can work on (submit to). Also, they would need to set and coordinate work.
[10:13] <kiko> launchpad doesn't support those use cases yet.
[10:13] <mhz> oooh, i see
[10:13] <kiko> and as I said, specs are attached to products/distros
[10:13] <kiko> so if your team is working on a product or a distro
[10:13] <kiko> you'd probably register the spec on the product
[10:14] <kiko> and then assign it to a team
[10:15] <mhz> kiko, ok, thx for the enlightening. I'll se if we can use it that way or keep working via wiki for some cases.
[10:16] <kiko> mhz, what is your team working on?
[10:17] <mhz> I started EdubuntuStudyContent, and we'll start working on creating edu files to be used by edubuntu applications after install. So Admins will just apt-get install  mat_primary-cl.deb
[10:18] <mhz> or something
[10:20] <kiko> I'd attach that to the edubuntu product (does it exist already) and assign your team to it
[10:20] <kiko> perhaps assigning individual team members to subparts of the spec
[10:21] <mhz> hmm. yup, I was figuring out something like that.
[10:21] <mhz> but, IMHO end-users (teachers this time) will probably feel wiki is easier to work on (coordination).
[10:22] <mhz> Which I dont like in this case, because I was planning to offer "EduPoints" (instead of karma)
[10:24] <kiko> I see
[10:26] <mhz> so, anyways, I wanted to do it all via LP so I'll have teacher decide
[10:27] <niemeyer> cprov<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:39] <bradb> SteveA: Is there an easy way to say that a menu exists in more than one facet? facet = ('foo', 'bar') raised some kind of inhuman error.
[10:39] <SteveA> don't do that
[10:40] <SteveA> one menu class to one facet
[10:40] <bradb> If not, I guess I'll just have to inherit
[10:40] <bradb> ok
[10:40] <SteveA> subclass if you want more
[10:40] <kiko> RFC: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3952
[10:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3952: Typo in Ubuntu Code of Conduct 1.0 In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/3952
[10:44] <kiko> mpt, wtf were you doing when you changed the description of that bug? :)
[11:30] <lifeless> hmm
[11:30] <lifeless> kiko: are you still here ?
[11:31] <kiko> I am, lifeless
[11:31] <kiko> what's up?
[11:31] <lifeless> teams and email addresses
[11:31] <lifeless> just setup a team for packaging opensync (debian-opensync) in debian, me, ajmitch & azeem
[11:32] <lifeless> I *thought* that each team had an email alias in launchpad that we could use as the packaging address
[11:32] <lifeless> was I confused ?
[11:35] <kiko> lifeless, not exactly. the team /can/ have an email address; if not, all /Launchpad/ email is sent to all members.
[11:36] <kiko> there is no external interface to the team though
[11:37] <lifeless> that is my confusion
[11:37] <lifeless> we want an email address to reach the team, for the package.
[11:37] <kiko> make a mailing list somewhere else
[11:37] <kiko> and set that as your team's contact email
[11:37] <lifeless> obviously we have to
[11:37] <kiko> that's the only way
[11:37] <kiko> yes
[11:37] <lifeless> but it would -really nice- not to have to go external for that
[11:37] <lifeless> the group chose launchpad for the bzr support
[11:37] <kiko> it would but we're not doing that right now :)
[11:38] <lifeless> policy or time? I.e. should I setup a spec for this ?
[11:38] <kiko> policy and time both
[11:38] <kiko> mark was reluctant to provide mailing lists (or aliases) to teams
[11:38] <kiko> I'm happy for a spec to be produced
[11:38] <lifeless> I remember that, I also remember his crack pipe going off and talking about programmitaclly driving mailman from launchpad
[11:39] <lifeless> ok. I'll do a spec, on my todo now.
[11:39] <kiko> I can smell the crack from here
[11:40] <lifeless> my use case is simple - one stop shop for package collaboration which requires a maintainer address ;)
[11:40] <kiko> :)
[11:43] <mpt> Eu escrevei o bug mais simples, kiko
[11:44] <kiko> mpt, qual deles?
[11:50] <mpt> kiko, o bug que voc perguntou, 3952
[11:53] <kiko> ah, beleza
[11:53] <kiko> mpt,  isso mesmo -- voc "simplificou"
[11:53] <mpt> certo
[11:53] <mpt> -er, no -ar
[11:54] <kiko> hmm?
[11:56] <mpt> "escravar" would be "eu escrevei", but "escrever" is not
[11:57] <kiko> escrever -> eu escrevi
[11:58] <mpt> eh, then why did you say escrevou?
[11:58] <mpt> voc escrevou, eu escrevi?
[11:58] <kiko> voc escreveu
[11:58] <kiko> I didn't say anything like escrevou!
[11:59] <mpt> oh, wait
[11:59] <mpt> ok, simplificou
[11:59] <kiko> righ
[11:59] <kiko> t
[12:01] <jblack> anybody doing gnomemeeting?
[12:01] <kiko> I meet using proprietary software
[12:01] <jblack> can it call h323?
[12:02] <kiko> I don't know anything about codecs
[12:02] <niemeyer> kiko is the proprietary-software kind of guy..
[12:02] <kiko> that is so unfair
[12:03] <jblack> dude? You're a proprietary-software kind of guy?
[12:03] <kiko> well
[12:03] <niemeyer> He even made a thesis about the open source model so that he could apply it on proprietary development..
[12:03] <kiko> jblack, what do I have to do to get out of this conversation?
[12:03] <jblack> You're out.
[12:04] <jblack> Just remember that when I get stuck in an awkward conversation, you owe me one. :)
[12:04] <mpt> It's all network effects


[00:40] <ScottL> Len-nb, ah, thanks
[00:41] <micahg> ScottL: please see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/13/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html#t23:06
[02:25] <ScottL> gah, i'm an idiot sometimes! i made change in the natty seeds for some reason for the xfce4-util change :|
[02:25] <ScottL> i'll fix it in a bit
[02:27] <micahg> ScottL: ooh :), still won't fix anything until a meta upload is done (and no ISO until libav-extra is uploaded and gimp-plugin-registry are fixed)
[02:28] <micahg> and probably ubuntustudio-default-settings is fixed as well
[02:41] <len-dt> anybody know much about the abit MBs? I have an ic7-g. It is supposed to take up to 4G ram.
[02:42] <len-dt> It had 4 256m sticks in it. I got 2 1G sticks.
[02:44] <len-dt> There are 4 slots, I can not use slots 1 or 2 with the new ram. I can put them in 3 and 4 so long as at least one of the 256M sticks is in 1 or 2.
[02:47] <len-dt> It shows all the ram, but somewhere in the kernel load it reboots. I can have one 1G in slot 3 or 4 and fill the rest with my 256M sticks for 1.75G.
[02:50] <len-dt> It is not easy finding an Abit website that works. Finding bios updates seems to be problematic...
[02:55] <len-dt> ailo, I have gotten myself a UM-1G USB midi interface (cakewalk/roland)
[02:55] <len-dt> I will test for timing problems.
[02:56] <len-dt> It has two modes (dumb and smart, or standard and advanced) I will try both.
[03:06] <ScottL> micahg, reverted change to natty seeds (i realize nothing really needs to be done further to that), updated quantal seeds, updated -default-settings, and downloading bzr branch for libav-extra
[03:06] <ScottL> is the gimp-plugin-registry breaking because of libav-extra?
[03:06] <ScottL> and aren't we using a special libav-extra for studio?
[03:08] <len-dt> ScottL, gimp-plugin-registry was broken before the extra problem showed up.
[03:08] <micahg> ScottL: nothing to do for libav-extra, I just need to test and upload from pkg-multimedia, if you can work on gimp-plugin-registry, that would be good
[03:08] <micahg> gimp-plugin-registry was broken before, yes
[03:12] <ScottL> okay, can i look at qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs for the gimp-plugin-registry logs, micahg?
[03:12] <ScottL> or is there a more expedient or practical place to look
[03:13] <micahg> ScottL: yes, that's fine
[03:18] <scott-upstairs> micahg, it looks like this is the problem, but i haven't a clue where to go from here
[03:18] <scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
[03:18] <scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
[03:18] <scott-upstairs> hold on...
[03:19] <scott-upstairs> build/buildd/gimp-plugin-registry-5.20120523/resynthesizer/bootchk-resynthesizer-28cade5/src/resynthesizer.c:314: undefined reference to `g_thread_init'
[03:19] <scott-upstairs> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
[03:19] <scott-upstairs> the first line had a leading backslash that was causing it not to show
[03:19] <micahg> that's the issue, g_thread_init needs to be removed
[03:25]  * scott-upstairs is getting bzr branch for gimp-plugin-registry now and a glass of water
[03:31] <scott-upstairs> micahg, i'm guessing that " g_thread_init(NULL);  // Init threading system, not necessary after glib 2.32" line can be removed or commented out?
[03:32] <scott-upstairs> from the refinerThreaded.h file
[03:32] <micahg> scott-upstairs: yes
[03:32] <scott-upstairs> micahg, do you use schroot to test build packages?
[03:33] <micahg> scott-upstairs: yes
[03:33] <scott-upstairs> is there a good tutorial for that?
[03:33] <scott-upstairs> i know the wiki.ubuntu.com has a page on schroots
[03:34] <micahg> scott-upstairs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment
[03:36] <scott-upstairs> micahg, thanks!  i'm got to get up in about 7.5 hours so i'm going to start shutting down, i'll continue work on this tomorrow
[05:20] <astraljava> Is it not possible to let the image build status emails directly to the list? Or failing that, can't the credentials be shared for the mailing list? Is there something we could do to speed up the queue?
[05:22] <astraljava> ScottL: Oh so that's why the natty seeds were updated so recently. I kinda wondered about it, but didn't stop to really think about why. :)
[05:28] <micahg> someone just needs to whitelist the from address
[05:36] <astraljava> micahg: Thanks. Now who can do that? Apparently Scott can, but is there anyone else? Should there be someone else?
[05:36] <micahg> astraljava: that's up to ScottL
[05:37] <astraljava> Ok, I'll have a word with him. :) Thanks!
[13:23] <scott-work> micahg: i shall read that schroot today at some point at work. if you wouldn't mind sharing your work flow (pastebin of an existing one or just a categorical list of the process) i would greatly appreciate it
[13:24] <scott-work> my current process has been to load the code locally on my production (audio) machine and then build in pbuilder to test build, but then i typically only use my ppa to build when i am familiar with the applicaiton and then after it builds i install it on a development machine running the dev release
[13:24] <scott-work> as you can see, that is a complicated and not very elegant solution and i greatly desire to streamline it
[18:56] <scott-work> oooh, micahg, this appears to be what i was looking for:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/BuildEnvironment#Typical_package_build_procedure
[18:56] <micahg> scott-work: yeah, but you don't need umt
[18:56] <scott-work> i think i can minimize my development setup to a single 64 bit machine this way
[18:56] <scott-work> micahg: what would you recommend then, just sbuild via schroot?
[18:56] <micahg> scott-work: I actually have aliases set up for the chroots
[18:57] <micahg> sbuild -c quantal-i386-shm -d quantal --arch i386 -A (for quantal i386, remove -shm if you didn't set up the overlay to build in RAM)
[18:58] <micahg> sbuild -d quantal-amd64-shm (for quantal amd64)
[18:58] <micahg> just put the .dsc file after those calls
[22:32]  * len-dt has figured out his memory problem
[22:32] <len-dt> ailo, I need to know which setup you used that had midi problems.
[22:33] <len-dt> So far I have not had any midi timing errors, internal or USB.
[22:34] <ailo> len-dt: The problem only arises when I use my xv-5050
[22:35] <ailo> It has its' own midi port through usb
[22:35] <ailo> The problem went away if I used my firewire device with jack midi
[22:35] <ailo> Firewire devices only support jack midi, as you might know
[22:36] <ailo> So, I connected the firewire device with a midi cable to my Roland xv-5050
[22:36] <len-dt> Ya, I have a cakewalk usb midi. So far it has just worked fine.
[22:37] <ailo> Can't remember if I had my m-audio usb midi device in the mix. It needs firmware to work
[22:37] <ailo> I need to go through that stuff again
[22:37] <len-dt> I was just wondering if there was some way I could stress test it.
[22:37] <ailo> How I noticed my problem was when I recorded the output from the xv-5050
[22:38] <len-dt> ailo, the machine I was using it in has two midi IFs
[22:38] <ailo> Not even a single bar was even close to being in sync
[22:38] <len-dt> So that would be qtracktor?
[22:38] <ailo> I also tried Ardour3
[22:39] <len-dt> Hmm, I wonder if that is because the highres timers are not accessible to user space as US 12.04 ships.
[22:39] <ailo> jack midi worked just fine
[22:40] <ailo> jack midi was more or less precisely accurate
[22:41] <ailo> len-dt: Do you have a external synth device?
[22:41] <len-dt> Yes, but I haven't tried it with the new IF yet.
[22:42] <len-dt> I will record an external KB and play it back to an external synth then.
[22:42] <ailo> len-dt: Better you write the midi, or at least make sure it's quantisized
[22:43] <ailo> Send a loop to the synth using alsa midi, and record the output
[22:43] <len-dt> ailo, I was thinking of using a beat box.
[22:43] <ailo> One way to hear the result directly is to just copy the result, and paste it at a different position, so the audio overlaps
[22:44] <ailo> I mean copy the newly recorded audio file
[22:44] <len-dt> Ok.
[22:45] <ailo> For me, each instance of the loop was different, and I was unable to get even one that was usable for the song I was recording
[22:47] <len-dt> ailo, I tried inputting from a beat box and then outputting to the same beat box. I could hear the slight delay from the original to the processed, but the delay seemed to be consistent
[22:48] <len-dt> That was alsa in to alsa out.
[22:48] <len-dt> I think recording it is the key.
[22:49] <len-dt> ailo, in other news... Got more ram for the desktop. Now have 2.5G
[22:50] <len-dt> I had to take one stick back... it was missing a bit.
[22:51] <knome> hooray
[22:53] <ailo> len-dt: Delay was not the problem for me. Just that each note was randomly out of sync with some +/- ms
[22:53] <len-dt> The YC20 synth almost works for me now.
[22:54] <len-dt> Ya, I remember that. I suspect it has something to do with the software not having timing.
[22:54] <ailo> If it's fixable, then we should really get it done :)
[22:55] <len-dt> Alsa, has access to the hirez timer because it is not user space, but kenrnel module.
[22:56] <len-dt> I would like to think it is a simple as changing the settings so that the hirez timer is part of the audio group.
[22:57] <len-dt> We went to the trouble of making it a part of the kernel, now we need to make sure the SW can use it...
[22:57] <ailo> Wasn't this what did that? http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration#hardware_timers
[22:58] <len-dt> Ya that looks right. But we don't ship tha way.
[22:58] <ailo> I'll test that once I get a chance
[23:02] <len-dt> ScottL, ailo and others, I may not be available at all this weekend. I am gone from tomorrow morning till Sunday evening. My oldest son is getting married.
[23:04] <ailo> May he stay in love with his wife and not grow a "ölmage" (beer belly)
[23:05] <len-dt> They have been seeing each other a number of years. It looks good.
[23:06] <ailo> And if there's not at least one corpse after the wedding fiest, it was not a real wedding (Finnish joke, related to fighting with knives)
[23:07] <len-dt> from back when _everyone_ carried a blade (or four).
[23:08]  * len-dt is from good celt blood.


[02:37] <tsimonq2> handsome_feng: Hi!
[02:37] <tsimonq2> Is bug 1766622 release-critical?
[02:39] <handsome_feng> tsimonq2: It's not critical, but it would be great if it can been upload today, :)
[02:40] <tsimonq2> handsome_feng: I ask because they're just spinning up final images now. :)
[02:41] <tsimonq2> handsome_feng: I will upload it, but please stick around in #ubuntu-release should they need you to explain.
[02:41] <tsimonq2> handsome_feng: Worst case scenario, it just gets carried over to the next development cycle.
[02:43] <handsome_feng> tsimonq2: OK, thanks, It doesn't matter, It only fix a minor issue
[02:44] <tsimonq2> OK :)


[10:00] <lifeless> vila: we really should feed those gzipfile tunings upstream
[10:45] <vila> lifeless: right, would have been easier when we had the resources to handle that, tech debt...
[10:45] <lifeless> vila: yeah


[01:12] <xubuntu88d> Greetings.I am using a virtual Machine to use Xubuntu. I am trying to set Sudo permissions and the password root is being rejected yet its the correct password i used to Log in
[02:43] <arun> Hi
[11:33] <xu-help82w> hi i think i got dds:ed
[11:34] <gnrp> xu-help82w: How do you think so?
[11:34] <xu-help82w> internet is rly slow n thers no new updates what i know of 😳
[11:34] <gnrp> you mean ddos?
[11:34] <xu-help82w> yea
[11:35] <gnrp> uhm, nobody would or could target peopl eat home
[11:35] <gnrp> with a ddos
[11:35] <xu-help82w> how do i reset ip
[11:35] <gnrp> in most cases, reconnect
[11:35] <gnrp> depending on how you are online, switch off your router, leave it off for some seconds, then restart
[11:35] <gnrp> but generally... this does not happen