[02:11] <micahg> jtaylor: sounds like a good idea, as tumbleweed said, get #ubuntu-release approval first
[02:58] <ScottK> micahg: It's up to the SRU team now.
[03:11] <micahg> ScottK: this was for Quantal :)
[03:11] <micahg> that is if I read backscroll correctly
[03:59] <ScottK> Oh.
[03:59] <ScottK> In that case, Ubuntu Archive would deal with removals.
[04:04] <micahg> ScottK: jtaylor: oh, sorry, I was referencing hdf5, not cpuid
[13:07] <jtaylor> why would it need release approval?
[13:08] <keffie_jayx> hello all, I have a question. With regards software that requires of a library released separate with its core features
[13:08] <tumbleweed> it doesn't need approval, but wouldn't hurt to let it be known that you'd like it synced before autosyncs start
[13:09] <keffie_jayx> does one package all that in one debian source package?
[13:09] <tumbleweed> keffie_jayx: a debian source package correlates to a tarball that an upstream releases
[13:10] <keffie_jayx> tumbleweed: ok that would make two then
[13:10] <keffie_jayx> and it would make one a build dependency and  dependecy of the other
[13:10] <keffie_jayx> good
[13:10] <keffie_jayx> thanks
[13:10] <tumbleweed> that works
[13:11] <keffie_jayx> I was confused since sometimes i seee only one dsc generation multiple binary packages
[13:11] <tumbleweed> that's pretty common
[13:12] <tumbleweed> especially for libraries. there'll be a separate -dev package, and possibly a -tools / -bin package, possibly a -doc, etc.
[13:18] <keffie_jayx> thanks tumbleweed
[18:30] <micahg> jtaylor: uploads before the release opens should be done with release team coordination ;)


[00:54] <pianogmx> question for developers, I am going to school for programming but how can i find a project team to mentor me?
[00:58] <pianogmx> anyone?
[01:01] <sarnold> pianogmx: best would be to find something that interests you, find a missing feature or a bug that bothers you, and offer a patch to try to fix it..
[01:03] <pianogmx> sarnold, so if I wanted to do like useful utilities like maybe xchat, how would I go about starting then?
[01:05] <sarnold> pianogmx: probably in that case you'd want to find the upstream code source, check it out of whatever version control they use, build it locally, test it out, try to figure out how to add whichever features you want, and perhaps ask on irc or mail lists if you need a hint about where to look in the source code for related code...
[01:05] <pianogmx> okay ima do some research, and idle here for a bit
[01:06] <sarnold> cool :)
[01:33] <syntroPi> is there any tablet around which is supported by ubuntu with normal desktop ui like unity and gnome shell?
[05:13] <pitti> Good morning
[06:09] <dholbach> good morning
[06:11] <dylan-m> Good morning, dholbach! :)
[06:11] <dholbach> hey dylan-m
[06:54] <vipzrx> morning
[08:22] <pitti> infinity: btw, has it ever been discussed to run the soyuz builds under eatmydata or setting that dpkg option for unsafe io? considering that installing the build deps takes like half of the build time for small packages, that might considerably lower the PPA build lag?
[08:51] <xnox> pitti: unsafe io at dependency installation should be ok. running the whole build under eatmydata will make upstart testsuite fail and possibly others as it actually relies on fsync() working.
[08:52] <xnox> (also upstart testsuite fails if the whole build is done in tmpfs as well....)
[08:52] <pitti> so, unsafe-io then :)
[08:52] <pitti> but FTBFS in tmpfs sounds like a bug
[09:01] <Daviey> xnox: Why does eatmydata fail the testsuite?
[09:01] <xnox> pitti: upstart tests gazzion ways one can modify a conffile and makes sure it's reloaded when changes via inotify or not. things have improved with 1.9, but I am still building 1.8 for the distro.... Will revisit that pest once 1.9 lands for the distro.
[09:01] <pitti> xnox: oh, our tmpfs doesn't support inotify?
[09:01] <xnox> pitti: i believe it does.
[09:01] <xnox> that's the funny bit.
[09:03] <xnox> Daviey: eatmydata makes fsync() not actually fsync() and hence data is not written out to disk when one requests for that to happen. Apart from that, I was not spending more time debugging it.
[09:04] <xnox> I'm glad that running test-suite in parallel works fine with 1.9 and up, and does race itself =)
[09:07] <jibel> python testsuite failed for the same reason and this is why I disabled eatmydata in package testing.
[09:09] <pitti> oh, python3.3's autopkgtest succeeds now, great!
[09:37] <Daviey> xnox, jibel: Ugh, that is rubbish.  I was hoping to use eatmydata more.
[09:40] <xnox> Daviey: there is no magic in what eatmydata does, it really trades IO speed for reliability. I run all of my sbuilds on tmpfs & eatmydata, but have a modifier schroots that disable that when I notice a weird build failure from time to time.
[09:46] <Daviey> xnox: I know what it does.. :)
[09:49] <xnox> "perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C")." why not fallback to C.UTF-8 ?!
[09:49]  * xnox hides
[10:33] <rbasak> I wonder if it's possible to do what eatmydata does but at a different level. Virtualisation perhaps? Or how about a kernel interface to noop syncs?
[10:33] <rbasak> Would that need disabling O_DIRECT in order to remain transparent to userspace?
[10:34] <rbasak> AFAICT it should be possible to make eatmydata-like functionality completely transparent to userspace.
[10:34] <rbasak> (for virtualisation I think libvirt's unsafe caching does something very similar)
[10:40] <cjwatson> mitya57: None of the outstanding Ubuntu patches to llvm-toolchain-3.2 are needed in llvm-toolchain-3.3?
[10:45] <mitya57> cjwatson: only the Ubuntu version patch is not applied upstream, I think it's not worth having a delta because of that
[10:45] <mitya57> (especially while 3.3 is not default)
[10:48] <mitya57> cjwatson: I'll now forward that upstream
[10:54] <mitya57> (done)
[11:09] <cjwatson> mitya57: The Ubuntu version patch is IIRC much more important than it looks, because it causes LLVM to choose a substantially different set of defaults
[11:10] <cjwatson> If we don't have that patch, I'd say this package should not be in Ubuntu
[11:13] <mitya57> cjwatson: I'll ask Sylvestre_ to add it in Debian then (and also fix powerpc build)
[11:53] <xnox> smoser: tested cloud-init with kvm and later with lxc once i figured out how to pass user-data to it. In short, reload-configuration can go back in, but with a version guard checking `initctl version`. In all other cases, instances should always finish initialisation. If one adds upstart jobs via user-data, they might not run, thus a reboot or manually starting them is required.
[11:55] <xnox> smoser: see email for details. But I will preparing raring SRU with changes as it currently is. I don't see how we can improve the situation any better, retrospectively.
[11:58] <smoser> xnox, email where?
[11:59] <xnox> smoser @ u.c
[12:12] <smoser> replied, xnox
[12:12] <rbasak> infinity: please see bug 1187722 when you have a chance. I thought you just sponsored SteveMcIntyre's patch but he says you were more involved? I asked him for feedback in #linaro.
[12:13]  * rbasak finds infinity in #linaro
[12:26] <smb> infinity, Near daily reminder for crash backports review. You are likely pleased to hear I try to load-balance xen over to apw...
[13:03] <ev> mpt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1064395
[13:20] <mitya57> cjwatson: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-llvm?view=revision&revision=690
[13:21] <cjwatson> mitya57: Great, thanks
[13:28] <xnox> smoser: reproduced race, added a check in the post-install for [ "$UPSTART_JOB" = "cloud-config" ] which also simply leaves init.upgraded & reboot-required markers.
[13:30] <xnox> hmm...
[13:33] <xnox> and it works correct now.
[14:24] <pitti> tseliot: bug 1185285
[14:25] <tseliot> pitti: thanks
[14:58] <zyga> barry: hey, is PEP396 (which I just read) going anywhere? Is it dead or is it just not-in-progress
[15:01] <infinity> @pilot in
[15:18]  * dholbach hugs infinity
[16:03] <bdmurray> doko: could you have a look at bug 1088771?
[16:19] <doko> bdmurray, yeah, I know. most likely not this week
[16:22] <bdmurray> doko: okay
[16:27] <jbicha_> ev: did you see bug 1187981?
[16:28] <xnox> jbicha_: that might be me.
[16:30] <jbicha_> GNOME copied our libtimezonemap into their gnome-control-center source and now Ubuntu's datetime panel won't run with g-c-c 3.8
[16:30] <xnox> jbicha_: that sounds so backwards, given that g-c-c was the one wanting to use libtimezonemap1 in the first place. As libtimezonemap upstream i'm not sure what I can do.
[16:30] <Laney> wtf
[16:30] <jbicha_> on the other hand I don't think any other distro packages libtimezonemap and...is it still being maintained?
[16:31] <jbicha_> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/datetime/cc-timezone-map.c
[16:31] <jbicha_> I'm not sure how many changes GNOME has made to the library to know how easily they could switch to a system lib for 3.10
[16:31] <xnox> jbicha_: yes it's still being maintained. fedora design team approched us, asking to move timezonemap to git.gnome.org and gnome bugzilla and accept their design changes which contradict our previous usability study.
[16:32] <jbicha_> xnox: can the library support both GNOME's design and Ubuntu's?
[16:32] <xnox> jbicha_: but none of their proposals seemed to bring any real benefit to libtimezonemap.
[16:33] <xnox> jbicha_: sure it can, but I only saw mockups from fedora and no code / patches was submitted.
[16:33] <jbicha_> (by the way there's only 2 rdepends, indicator-datetime & ubiquity)
[16:33] <jbicha_> xnox: I think I linked to GNOME's code ;)
[16:34] <xnox> jbicha_: please take it up with g-c-c upstream, that if they decide to fork something maybe it could be submitted as a patch. And also if they do fork a library, they should be renaming the symbols.....
[16:34] <xnox> jbicha_: sure, it's a link to code =) not patches I can readily apply. I'll diff it to see what has changed.
[16:36] <jbicha_> https://launchpad.net/libtimezonemap says Obsolete project, where's the current code?
[16:38] <cjwatson> jibel: Do I understand it correctly that 'adt-britney request' only generates requests for direct reverse-dependencies?
[16:39] <cjwatson> IOW if you change python2.7 it won't generate requests for things that depend only on python
[16:40] <jbicha_> xnox: is their current code for libtimezonemap?
[16:42] <xnox> jbicha_: gtk+3 is here https://launchpad.net/timezonemap
[16:47] <jbicha_> xnox: ok, you can follow up at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/702194
[16:50] <seb128> xnox, jbicha_: are we sure they forked the lib?
[16:51] <jbicha_> yes the copyright header is still there (that's why I pinged ev first)
[16:52] <seb128> xnox, jbicha_: it seems like they didn't really touch that in years, our lib is based on a copy of their code rather, it just started breaking because they are doing static linking of the panels
[16:53] <xnox> seb128: now that sounds closer to being true.
[16:53] <xnox> seb128: i was merely TIL in ubuntu.
[16:54] <xnox> ev / cjwatson  should know the history
[16:54] <seb128> xnox, well, looking at the copyright I guess ev started from the Intel code in g-c-c
[16:54] <seb128> our version evolved
[16:54] <jbicha_> seb128: it looks like maybe GNOME forked it from Ubiquity back in 2010
[16:55] <seb128> oh, right
[16:55] <seb128> the first import has " * Portions from Ubiquity, Copyright (C) 2009 Canonical Ltd."
[16:55] <jbicha_> and it wasn't really a separate library in Ubuntu until 2011?
[16:55] <seb128> well anyway it would be better if g-c-c could use the system lib
[16:56] <Laney> look at README in https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~timezonemap-team/timezonemap/trunk/revision/1 ;-)
[16:56] <Laney> looks like it has quite a twisty history
[16:57] <ev> yeah, we were there first
[16:57] <cjwatson> ubiquity's map originally came from evolution-data-server and I think that was by way of something else, but it wasn't intended as a library when I did that; I think ev was the one to clean it up (by this point it had had very substantial work done on it) and turn it into a library
[16:58] <cjwatson> it was a descendant of the original EDS/whatever-it-was version but wasn't really the same code at all by that point
[16:58] <Laney> sounds like they've converged a bit now anyway
[16:58] <cjwatson> sorry, not EDS, it was from evolution via gnome-system-tools
[16:59] <cjwatson> It was in a src/cut-and-paste/ directory in at least one of those :-)
[17:40] <cjwatson> jibel: Hm.  Also, seems to have an idiosyncratic definition of dependencies.  get_package_info for upstart seems to return systemd-services (upstart Conflicts with that) but not libjson0 (which upstart Depends on).
[22:57] <mwhudson> er
[22:57] <mwhudson> sanity check
[22:57] <mwhudson> it's normal for optimized code for armhf in ubuntu to not be compiled with frame pointers, right?
[23:22] <lifeless> mwhudson: -fomit-frame-pointer; I assume yes.


[01:11] <linuxman410> anyone here
[01:14]  * cyberanger wonders where here is
[01:14] <linuxman410> cyberanger i am using aptosid i love it
[01:18] <Unit193> cyberanger, linuxman410: Howdy
[01:20] <wrst> howdy, linuxman410, cyberanger, Unit193
[01:21] <Unit193> wrst: You win
[01:22] <wrst> what's the prize?
[01:22] <linuxman410> wrst how r u
[01:22] <wrst> good linuxman410, you?
[01:22] <linuxman410> doing ok
[01:23] <linuxman410> wrst am trying out aptosid
[01:24] <wrst> yes just looking that one up
[01:48] <linuxman410> wrst u look it up
[01:50] <orangeninja>
[01:50] <orangeninja> howdy, linuxman410 , cyberanger , Unit193
[01:50] <orangeninja> and wrst
[01:51] <wrst> yep linuxman410
[01:51] <wrst> howdy orangeninja
[01:51] <linuxman410> orangeninja how r u have not seen u here before
[01:52] <orangeninja> I'm fine, I have been in and out for the past few months.....
[01:53] <linuxman410> i use ubuntu on one computer used to use on everything it got to powerful
[01:54] <Juzzy> :>
[01:55] <wrst> howdy Juzzy
[01:55] <Juzzy> hola
[01:55] <wrst> Juzzy: you being the career counselor :) I know a guy that may be moving in the area that's a python developer is there any hope for him finding a job?
[01:56] <Juzzy> yea actually
[01:56] <wrst> really cool
[01:56] <Juzzy> I get random recruiters all the time asking me for weird languages
[01:56]  * wrst is a bean counter so knows nothing of the computer job world
[01:56] <Juzzy> one has a standing order for ruby developers but they dont advertise the positions at all
[01:57] <linuxman410> wrst have u ever tried aptosid
[01:57] <Juzzy> python would be a weird language to be exclusive to
[01:57] <wrst> ahh cool Juzzy might invite him in here sometime to give you a yell if that is ok?
[01:57] <Juzzy> sure.
[01:57] <wrst> Juzzy: he does other things but not for sure what
[01:57] <wrst> cool, thanks Juzzy
[01:57] <Juzzy> moving to nashville area?
[01:57] <wrst> linuxman410: never tried it before
[01:58] <wrst> Juzzy: actually moving to the states his wife is from the US he is from south africa
[01:58] <wrst> so he would probably go anywhere that there is work
[01:58] <Juzzy> ah
[01:59] <linuxman410> wrst some dummy in puppy linux irc room told me to use windows i said no way stupid
[01:59] <Juzzy> using a H1B work visa then?
[01:59] <Juzzy> or whatever it is
[01:59] <wrst> I think so Juzzy
[01:59] <Juzzy> that can be harder
[01:59] <Juzzy> there's already a limited market on that, and indians spam the shit out of it
[01:59] <wrst> i forget what he said he had Juzzy I will find out
[02:00] <wrst> well he speaks good english at least maybe that could help :)
[02:00] <Juzzy> maybe :>
[02:00] <wrst> linuxman410: few linux support places are as nice as we are here :)
[02:00] <Juzzy> gunna finish watching resivior dogs heh
[02:01] <linuxman410> wrst they are going to get nice or face the linuxman cause i will tell them how it is
[02:02] <wrst> thanks Juzzy for the info
[02:02] <wrst> ha ha linuxman410, puppy haven't tried that before
[02:02] <linuxman410> most guys in puppylinux room were still in diapers when i started using linux
[02:03] <wrst> no wait I have used puppy its the super light one right?
[02:03] <linuxman410> yeah
[02:04] <linuxman410> wrst i started using linux in 1998
[02:05] <wrst> what did you start out with linuxman410?
[02:05] <linuxman410> mandrake 7.0
[02:06] <wrst> ahh yes mandriva now
[02:06] <wrst> and of course mageia is a fork
[02:06] <linuxman410> yes that is the one
[02:06] <wrst> i'm a big fan of mageia
[02:06] <linuxman410> i always like mandriva one
[02:07] <wrst> yes me too
[02:08] <wrst> its a very solid distro i'm not a huge kde fan, but they do a good job with kde
[02:08] <linuxman410> i also used debian 2.2
[02:10] <linuxman410> wrst with aptosid u have to exit x to do all upgrades
[02:10] <wrst> linuxman410: that's weird, why?
[02:10] <linuxman410> i tried it in x and it crashed
[02:11] <linuxman410> wrst it is based on wheezy
[02:11] <wrst> yeah I may give wheezy a try
[02:12] <linuxman410> wrst aptosid is a rolling release you just have to upgrade to go to next version
[02:13] <wrst> yeah only thing even with wheezy the packages aren't nearly as fresh as arch
[02:13] <linuxman410> wrst i could never figure out arch
[02:13] <wrst> linuxman410: never had any trouble as long as you follow the wiki word for word
[02:14] <wrst> but I wouldn't suggest going into their irc to get support
[02:15] <linuxman410> wrst are the smarty  pants
[02:16] <wrst> they just tell you to go read the documentation :)
[02:16] <wrst> and usually that is a smarty pants, but the documentation is really that good
[02:16] <wrst> if ubuntu had arch's documentation it would be flat out awesome
[02:16] <linuxman410> wrst i went into one irc room and they got real smart and i told them no one should use their stupid os
[02:17] <wrst> yeah its a little bit of an elitist group
[02:18] <linuxman410> wrst one guy threaten to ban me i told him to go ahead i would be back under another name
[02:18] <wrst> that's one of those deals where you kinda have to fit into the way they do things
[02:19] <wrst> i've just never asked anything in there :)
[02:19] <linuxman410> i like to go into the windows room on account of my username
[02:20] <linuxman410> wrst i like to ask questions about windows 3.1
[02:21] <wrst> windows 3.1 ha ha
[02:21] <linuxman410> like how can i install internet explorer 8 in 3.1
[02:21] <wrst> ha
[02:22] <linuxman410> wrst i do not think they like me in there
[02:22] <wrst> well... ;)
[02:23] <linuxman410> wrst its all good
 wrst i started using linux in 1998
 what did you start out with linuxman410?
 mandrake 7.0
[03:00] <Juzzy> md7 wasnt out in 98
[03:01] <Juzzy> I was running slack 3.5 in 98-99 ish
[03:02] <Juzzy> md7 was a bit later
[03:02] <Juzzy> i remember it coming out
[03:02] <Juzzy> ;/
[03:03] <Juzzy> it was out when redhat 7 came out
[03:03] <Juzzy> and i remember buying a rh 5.0 boxed set heh
[03:03] <Juzzy> but whatever
[10:26] <wrst> Juzzy: you all are veterans in here on linux compared to me I started with ubuntu 7.04 and had trouble with broadcom wireless and moved to whatever mandriva was at the time they had  a much easier way of getting broadcom to work, but then came 7.10 with the auto hardware driver thing (jockey) and I was pretty well set on ubuntu
[19:07] <linuxman410> anyone here
[19:14] <wrst> linuxman410: how you doing?
[19:14] <linuxman410> wrst doing ok parting ok a newer model dell
[19:15] <linuxman410> out
[19:15] <linuxman410> wrst getting ready to put parts on ebay
[19:16] <wrst> cool linuxman410, did you ever get a laptop?
[19:17] <wrst> hey Unit193
[19:17] <linuxman410> wrst i cannot get computer to fire up so i am selling 3gigs of ddr2 and 250gb sata harddrive and a sata dvd burner
[19:18] <wrst> some decent parts there linuxman410
[19:18] <linuxman410> wrst yes i got me a dell 8200
[19:18] <wrst> cool
[19:18] <Unit193> wrst: Howdy!
[19:19] <linuxman410> wrst i give 26.00 for it on ebay cause it had corrupt windows and guy did not know what was wrong
[19:19] <wrst> well if he had windows....
[19:20] <linuxman410> wrst i know what u mean
[19:21] <wrst> yeah
[19:21] <linuxman410> wrst the machine is a dell xps 410 it has a bad board they have the board on ebay for 60 bucks
[19:26] <linuxman410> wrst it has a pci express video card with 256 megs of ram called NVidia GeForce 7900GS
[19:27] <wrst> not a bad little machine


[00:41] <RAOF> Gah. Do we need another ‘how can we get SRUs to not be pointless-makework-for-all-concerned’ session?
[00:56] <RAOF> Also, VALAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
[01:00] <stgraber> RAOF: why did you release lilypond when some of the architectures failed to build?
[01:00] <stgraber> (powerpc regressed)
[01:01] <RAOF> Oh, I saw the arm64 dep-wait and went “ok, that's not important”. Didn't process the powerpc regression. :(
[01:01] <RAOF> Oops!
[01:42] <stgraber> slangasek: if you're around, bug 1250611 seems related to the recent shim-signed update
[01:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1250611 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "shim-signed update unrecognized option" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250611
[02:12] <stgraber> RAOF: around?
[02:13] <RAOF> stgraber: Yeah.
[02:13] <stgraber> RAOF: so I'm looking into bug 1250611 now, looks like we'll need a partial revert of shim-signed. I'm doing some tests now to figure out which release we need to revert and I'll be doing the uploads. Would be nice if you could do a speedy review once they hit the queue.
[02:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1250611 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "shim-signed update unrecognized option" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250611
[02:14] <stgraber> my plan is to let them build, then release to -updates immediately to fix the breakage
[02:15] <stgraber> confirmed to be limited to precise. I'll upload a simple revert of that part of the diff and let slangasek figure out whether we want to backport the grub-install option or not
[02:17] <RAOF> Sure. That sounds like a reasonable plan.
[02:17] <stgraber> RAOF: uploaded now, should be in the queue shortly
[02:17] <stgraber> I'll re-open the original bug report too since the revert also means that bug won't be fixed
[02:17] <RAOF> Ta.
[02:19] <stgraber> RAOF: it's in New because it's a source that doesn't exist in the release pocket
[02:19] <stgraber> RAOF: so you'll need to manually accept it and make sure to override it to main
[02:20] <RAOF> I just love manual steps I can get wrong :)
[02:22] <RAOF> stgraber: Accepted.
[02:22] <RAOF> Enjoy your meal!
[02:22] <stgraber> good. I'll let it build, test on a clean precise box this time (since apparently the one I used for the previous SRU had a backported grub ...)
[02:22] <stgraber> and if all checks out, release to -updates
[02:24] <RAOF> Should we be blocking the previous update while this is happening?
[02:24]  * RAOF doesn't know how to do that, but it seems like the existing upgrade is almost guaranteed to break
[02:24] <stgraber> well, we could remove it or set its phased-percentage to 0 but that'd take one publisher run to happen and my plan is to have the new one tested by that time anyway
[02:25] <RAOF> stgraber: Fair enough.
[02:25] <stgraber> and there it's, build already, testing that one now
[02:26] <stgraber> fixed package confirmed to work here
[02:27] <stgraber> RAOF: can you run sru-accept -p shim-signed -v 1.5~12.04.2 -s precise 1250611 ?
[02:27] <stgraber> that'll push the usual bug comment
[02:28] <stgraber> (the package was wrong in the bug report, so if you did it previously, it probably failed)
[02:33] <stgraber> RAOF: sru released, ignore that sru-accept, it'd just be even more confusing if the blurb was posted after the SRU is released :)
[02:37] <stgraber> ok, I think that particular mess has been resolved.
[02:38]  * stgraber gets back to his evening activities
[04:30] <slangasek> stgraber: thanks for the quick reaction on the shim-signed regression.  I guess no one ever actually ran through the test case that was on the SRU bug?
[04:31] <slangasek> (at least, not for precise)
[16:06] <chrisccoulson> could someone please approve that flash upload before i upload the other releases? ^^
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, would you mind approving flash please? :)
[16:31] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: done
[16:32] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, thanks. i've just uploaded the others now
[16:33] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: done
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[16:34] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: oh, interesting, saucy didn't have it in release
[16:35] <jdstrand> that will obviously get fixed today
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, this is the first flash upload since saucy was released, and i don't normally do partner uploads before the release
[16:35] <jdstrand> I see
[18:43] <seb128> could somebody review/approve https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=popularity-contest ?
[18:44] <seb128> (that's a SRU for raring, it has a buggy popularity-contest that sends report to Debian ... which the Debian guys have been complaining about for a while)
[18:45] <seb128> (we got it fixed in saucy but didn't backport the fix to raring and it seems they keep getting report, I would like to reply to there email telling that we got the SRU in)
[19:56] <stgraber> seb128: done
[20:02] <seb128> stgraber, thanks!


[01:00] <dmfrey> anyone got mirobridge working 9.10?
[01:19] <dmfrey> it tells me miro needs to be installed and configured
[01:19] <dmfrey> the thing is that miro is installed and running
[01:32] <dmfrey> its gotta be a path issue
[01:35] <superm1> dmfrey, two things
[01:35] <superm1> 1) miro can't be running when mirobridge runs
[01:36] <dmfrey> oh, ok
[01:36] <superm1> 2) there is a particular way to launch it in your cron job (see the wiki)
[01:36] <dmfrey> i was just trying to run it from the command line
[01:36] <dmfrey> not setup as a cronjob yet
[01:36] <superm1> same command from command line (if you are doing it ssh)
[01:37] <superm1> if you are running it from the command line in X, then you don't need all the dbus'ey stuff
[01:37] <dmfrey> yeah
[01:37] <dmfrey> i am ssh into my backend box
[01:37] <dmfrey> no x
[01:43] <benomatic> i have a completely screwed up myth installation, including a totally broken mysql (like rm -rf /var/lib/mysql) -- how can i force a full, from-package reconfiguration of mysql/myth* ?
[01:44] <dmfrey> odd, if i vnc into the box and run it from a shell, test passes, when i do it from ssh, it fails
[01:44] <superm1> dmfrey, yeah that's why it needs to be launched as indicated on the wiki
[01:45] <superm1> it launches some dbus related stuff
[01:45] <dmfrey> superm1: gotcha, that' the problem when you are skimming
[01:45] <dmfrey> superm1: you miss stuff :)
[01:46] <superm1> well once RDV finishes the mirobridge mcc plugin, this will be far more moot
[01:46] <dmfrey> that will be great
[02:09] <dmfrey> superm1: looks like it is working now
[02:10] <dmfrey> pretty cool
[02:10] <dmfrey> setting up a bunch of feeds now
[09:16] <Jester05> hello, is anyone online?
[14:52] <Memphis> !help
[14:52] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].


[10:14] <smartboyhw> Riddell, Krita at least draws something
[10:20] <soee> smartboyhw, hows the exam ?
[10:21] <smartboyhw> soee, 1. That's a test-.- 2. It's good, except the bonus question which everybody got it wrong except one person (that guy got the best academic results)
[10:21] <soee> ;]
[10:21] <soee> good to hear :)
[10:21] <smartboyhw> soee, it's a simple one
[11:23] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[12:17] <BluesKaj> soee, ~/.kde/share/config/krunnerrc , then you can edit the line under [PlasmaRunnerManager]
[12:17] <soee> BluesKaj, let me check
[12:18] <BluesKaj> soee, the Launchcounts line
[12:19] <soee> BluesKaj, what is this number before some entry
[12:19] <soee> 4 services_netbeans-7.3 Beta 2.desktop
[12:21] <soee> maybe hits counter
[12:22] <soee> * how can i reload krunner ?
[12:24] <BluesKaj> alt_F2 , or right click on the desktop . choose run command
[12:25] <soee> BluesKaj, i removed old netbeans related entries, killed and started krunner again, but still have old entries on the list
[12:25] <BluesKaj> err al+F2
[12:25] <BluesKaj> soee, did yo save the file after editing ?
[12:25] <soee> yes
[12:26] <soee> the only change is that the item i left in this files
[12:26] <soee> now shows up as first on the list
[12:29] <Tm_T> http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/09/12/introducing-the-qt-webengine/
[12:29] <BluesKaj> soee, then maybe I'm mistaken , perhaps that file can't be edited the way I thought
[12:30] <soee> ok thanks anyway Blizzz
[12:30] <soee> BluesKaj, ^^
[12:31] <apachelogger> the new qt: now with a browser inside
[12:31] <apachelogger> on the plus side there's hope for rekonq after all :P
[12:32] <mikhas> strange
[12:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://paste.kde.org/p9d2b2654/
[12:33] <jussi> apachelogger: yeah, "hope" :P
[12:33] <BluesKaj> chromium still doesn't integrate well with kde settings in some respects , Qt or no
[12:33] <Tm_T> apachelogger: I was wondering if I should use some time to do KHTML hacking q-:
[12:33] <apachelogger> to get best libdvdcsss experience I guess le key should be added to the whitelist and le website should say in super bold letters "sudo add-apt-repsitory 'deb ...'"
[12:34] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I know a person that picked up on that like half a year ago :P
[12:34] <apachelogger> I do not know why, I am sure he had reasons
[12:34] <Tm_T> apachelogger: ooh great, I've been too busy for it
[12:34] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: such as?
[12:34] <apachelogger> Tm_T: delegate ^^
[12:34] <jussi> you know,  I wish there was some keyboard shortcut that would bring me directly to the source of the last notification (ie. the same as if the view button was pressed)
[12:35] <Tm_T> apachelogger: ah, but it's stuff I want to do myself (;
[12:35] <apachelogger> jussi: think that would have to be set via quassel
[12:35] <jussi> apachelogger: Im not just talking about quassel though
[12:36] <jussi> and it should be global
[12:36] <BluesKaj> apachelogger, the tab fonts are hard coded and can't be changed to make them readable on a large monitor, that my biggest peeve
[12:36] <soee> BluesKaj, i have removed also old file sin .local/share/applications now it looks liek old stuff is removed
[12:36] <jussi> so it works whereever
[12:36] <apachelogger> jussi: impossibru
[12:36] <jussi> apachelogger: why?
[12:36] <BluesKaj> soee, let me check
[12:36] <apachelogger> say you have a key combo (which is likely) while you are trying to use that no new notifications need to get focus
[12:37] <apachelogger> so say you have CTRL+F1 while CTRL is pressed no notification must ever be displayed
[12:37] <apachelogger> otherwise there comes a notification with button "wanna delete /" and kaboom
[12:37] <jussi> hrr
[12:38] <BluesKaj> soee, I don't see anything related to krunner there
[12:38] <jussi> can it just be applied to certain applications?
[12:38] <apachelogger> (on a semi-related note a noticiation can have n (possibly <=2) buttons, and which button does what is not exactly specified as such)
[12:38] <apachelogger> so if you had F1 and F2 assigned it could be that F1 is reply in quassel and F2 is dicsard and in KTP is the other way around
[12:38] <jussi> mind, in ancase the view button doesnt work half the time anyway
[12:39] <apachelogger> not the biggest of issues that is, but it just highlights insufficiencies ^^
[12:39] <soee> BluesKaj, i had old netbeans v. XX .desktop files and i rmeoved them, than krunner restart
[12:39] <BluesKaj> soee, ok
[12:39] <apachelogger> jussi: I don't think applying for certain apps would make much sense either
[12:39] <apachelogger> would be confusing IMO
[12:40] <apachelogger> iff we had a message-indicator it would be slightly different though :P
[12:40] <jussi> ...
[12:40] <apachelogger> doesn't solve the timing problem though
[12:41] <apachelogger> it'd still be annoying if you hit CTRL+F1 and ktp comes up rather than quassel
[12:41] <apachelogger> might just as well have clicked then ^^
[12:41] <apachelogger> so in conculsion I believe the experience will be better if that is handled by the applications rather than globally
[12:41] <jussi> sigh...
[12:42] <jussi> why dont we have messaging menu anyway?
[12:42] <jussi> :P
[12:42] <apachelogger> that you will have to ask d_ed who is conveniently enough hiding
[12:42] <jussi> heh
[12:42] <smartboyhw> heh heh
[12:43] <apachelogger> jussi: #kde-devel
[12:43] <jussi> nih? :P :P
[12:43] <apachelogger> not sure if the ktp people ever thought about it tho
[12:43] <apachelogger> that being said if we had to get a menu I'd imagine this to be part of KTP what with KTP being the messaging hub
[12:43] <apachelogger> ah d_ed_!
[12:44] <apachelogger> jussi wanted to harass you
[12:44] <jussi> ambush! :D
[12:44]  * jussi hugs d_ed_
[12:44] <d_ed_> ooh, I like that kind of ambush
[12:45] <jussi> d_ed_: we were just having a conversation about having a global shortcut to activate unread messages
[12:45] <jussi> which raised the question...
[12:45] <jussi> [15:42:07] <jussi> why dont we have messaging menu anyway?
[12:45] <d_ed_> what's a messaging menu?
[12:46] <jussi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
[12:46] <shadeslayer> \o
[12:46] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, o/
[12:46] <jussi> heya shadeslayer
[12:47] <d_ed_> shadeslayer: hola!
[12:47] <shadeslayer> hola indeed
[12:47] <jussi> shadeslayer: aaah yes, how is spain?
[12:47] <jussi> warm enough for you?
[12:47] <shadeslayer> it was wet when I arrived
[12:48] <apachelogger> com estas?
[12:48] <shadeslayer> probably from being too excited
[12:48] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, too excited? When did you arrive at Spain? -.-
[12:48] <smartboyhw> The time factor will make sense
[12:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I think it's 'como estas"
[12:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: and I'm just a bit tired
[12:49] <d_ed_> so anyway, on topic: there was some sort of plasmoid - that worked
[12:49] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: I don't think you got the sexual innuendo xD
[12:49] <d_ed_> it showed an envelope in the systray when you had a new message
[12:49] <d_ed_> the problem was - so did we
[12:49] <shadeslayer> or maybe no one did
[12:49] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, uh hum, I thought you are talking about US Open -.-
[12:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: sez who?
[12:49] <d_ed_> and we couldn't remove it as we needed it for other distros
[12:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: sez the site I am learning Spainish from
[12:49] <shadeslayer> as well as Google
[12:50] <apachelogger> I am reasonable certain in cataln it's com
[12:50] <apachelogger> afiestas: halp
[12:50] <afiestas> apachelogger: ?
[12:50] <apachelogger> d_ed_: which is why I think ktp needs to pick up on that and integrate the mailz and ircs and stuff
[12:50] <apachelogger> afiestas: is it como estas or com estas
[12:51] <jussi> d_ed_: ahh interesting
[12:51] <afiestas> http://translate.google.com/#en/es/how%20are%20you
[12:51] <jussi> d_ed_: could you not just have on/off switch? or is it too much work to maintain?
[12:51] <afiestas> just add the missing ? at the end
[12:51] <afiestas> d_ed_: queso !
[12:51] <d_ed_> yeah, I think at the time, we were coming up to 0.5 our first reelase in Kubuntu
[12:52] <d_ed_> queso fiesta!
[12:52] <d_ed_> and there were time constraints
[12:52] <apachelogger> afiestas: in catalan as well?
[12:52] <afiestas> d_ed_: fiesta de queso !
[12:52]  * smartboyhw needs to invent a plugin to translate anything non-English into English
[12:52] <d_ed_> if you could make it so your plasmoid reported on dbus whether it existed or not
[12:52] <d_ed_> we could make it work
[12:52] <afiestas> apachelogger: http://translate.google.com/#en/ca/how%20are%20you
[12:52] <d_ed_> I can give you code for that
[12:52] <afiestas> missing ? as well
[12:52] <afiestas> but we don't have opening ¿
[12:52] <apachelogger> d_ed_: without the plasmoid thing from us
[12:52] <apachelogger> which is unmaintained crud
[12:52] <apachelogger> I want an upstream solution for this
[12:53] <apachelogger> kmail should integrate with ktp's presence plasmoid
[12:53] <apachelogger> and so should the konversation
[12:53] <apachelogger> so I have one place to go when I want to talk with mister party
[12:53] <afiestas> apoi: mck182_ and I wanted to work on this
[12:53] <afiestas> then d_ed_ came and say "This is going to be bad"
[12:53] <jussi> apachelogger: i like thatg idea
[12:53] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: see, my catalan is better than yours
[12:53] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[12:53] <afiestas> so we stop :p
[12:54] <d_ed_> I'm sure that's exactly what happened
[12:54] <apachelogger> d_ed_ doesn't say bad
[12:54] <afiestas> d_ed_: it is!
[12:54] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I'm learning spainish not catalan, and the sentence is almost similar so I thought you were saying that in spainish
[12:54] <apachelogger> not a posh enough word
[12:54] <afiestas> well yeah he said it in the british way you know
[12:54] <afiestas> http://bridgesandtangents.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/english1.jpg
[12:54] <apachelogger> there ya have it
[12:55] <afiestas> I almost agree on doing this...
[12:55] <apachelogger> xD
[12:55] <afiestas> I only have a few minor comments on it
[12:55] <jussi> d_ed_: ok, so to sum up, do you have a way forward that you would like?
[12:55] <afiestas> d_ed_: that's closer to what happened, no? :p
[12:55] <d_ed_> I was translating!
[12:55] <d_ed_> afiestas: seriously though, I do vaguely remember this
[12:55] <mck182_> I do not.
[12:56] <mck182_> I remember we wanted to have some presence thinggy
[12:56] <mck182_> but for messages....?
[12:56] <d_ed_> afiestas: I think I said we need to focus on getting libkpeople done before taking on new projects
[12:56] <afiestas> d_ed_: nah, you hell this global pressence thing was going to open the gates of hell
[12:56] <afiestas> but we did not stop working on it because of that, we just stop
[12:56] <afiestas> apol did some code though
[12:56] <apol> I did work on it for some hours though
[12:57] <apol> yep x
[12:57] <apol> xD
[12:57]  * apol opens the not-so-quickgit
[12:57] <apachelogger> apol's $HOME contains hell.cpp
[12:57] <d_ed_> afiestas: since when do you ever listen to me anyway?
[12:57] <d_ed_> :)
[12:57] <apachelogger> slowgit \o/
[12:57] <apol> http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=scratch%2Fapol%2Fuserpresence.git
[12:57] <jussi> d_ed_: everyone listens to you...
[12:57] <afiestas> d_ed_: I always listen to you! I love your accent it is dogs bollocks
[12:57]  * apachelogger wonders what he was doing before musing on a browser in the browser
[12:57] <afiestas> :p
[12:58] <afiestas> sorry
[12:58] <d_ed_> I'm impressed
[12:58] <afiestas> your *lack* of accent
[12:58] <apachelogger> now you have to say "pardon my french"
[12:58] <jussi> afiestas: with the greatest respect, you got that all wrong  :D
[12:58] <jussi> :P
[12:58] <mck182_> shadeslayer: what was that command line thing for viewing cups things?
[12:58]  * jussi hugs afiestas
[12:59]  * d_ed_ hugs too
[12:59] <shadeslayer> d_ed_: I don't think you can wrap your arms around the both of them
[13:00] <shadeslayer> mck182_: I just check the cups error log
[13:00] <mck182_> ah right
[13:00]  * mck182_ enables logging
[13:00] <shadeslayer> http://localhost:631/admin
[13:00]  * apachelogger insults everyone who contributes to hugging
[13:00] <shadeslayer> "Save debugging information for troubleshooting"
[13:00] <shadeslayer> then view error log
[13:01] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: on the other hand d_ed_ has freakishly long arms
[13:01] <d_ed_> wtf!
[13:01] <d_ed_> where did that come from
[13:01] <d_ed_> they're standard sized!
[13:01] <jussi> insults...
[13:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I think they're standard sized for a brit
[13:02] <jussi> see now, we shat speak about apachelogger's weirdly strange accent...
[13:02] <apachelogger> nonono
[13:02] <shadeslayer> shat? lol
[13:02] <apachelogger> we should talk about how I write en_US but speak at_UK
[13:03] <apachelogger> because I can, that's why
[13:03] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[13:03]  * apachelogger scuttles off to find moar coffee
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Anyone can think of why we didn't package https://bitbucket.org/cyrille/cauchy ?
[13:34] <smartboyhw> (The last unpackaged build-dep of calligra
[13:34] <smartboyhw> License issues?
[13:34] <Riddell> smartboyhw: it wasn't released when last I looked
[13:34] <Riddell> so cyrille suggested to wait
[13:34] <Riddell> yeah still no tar
[13:34] <smartboyhw> -.-
[13:35] <smartboyhw> It's 7 months without development
[13:35] <Riddell> you can ask him again if he thinks it's ready or not but then do we want it after FF if upstream advise against?
[13:36] <smartboyhw> Riddell, if upstream advises against, certainly not
[13:54] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell, CyrilleB thinks it's ready and he will make a release soon.
[14:05] <smartboyhw> But now I'm confused with the 4 COPYRIGHT files in there
[14:16] <Riddell> smartboyhw: yeah he said he'd make a release soon last time I asked :)
[14:16] <smartboyhw> Riddell, he actually made one;P
[14:16] <smartboyhw> 0.9.0 is now released
[14:16] <Riddell> ah hah, you must be better at poking than me :)
[14:16] <smartboyhw> Riddell, hell, I'm getting 3 versioned .so files, and I need to make 10 packages-.-
[14:17] <Riddell> uh oh
[14:40] <smartboyhw> kubotu: newpackage cauchy 0.9.0
[14:40] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1224514
[14:49] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I'm getting weird stuff here
[14:49] <smartboyhw> The so files are like *.so.0.0
[14:49] <smartboyhw> Instead of .0
[14:55] <mikhas> did someone release a version 0.0? ;-)
[14:56] <Riddell> smartboyhw: consider this a test of your packaging skills :)
[14:57] <Riddell> smartboyhw: pass this and you'll fly by tomorrow :)
[14:57] <smartboyhw> Riddell, you want me to patch it, or?
[14:57] <Riddell> smartboyhw: probably he set that manually in a cmake file? what's the SONAME it ends up with?
[14:57] <Riddell> no don't patch it, it shouldn't be a problem
[14:57] <smartboyhw> Riddell, wait, dealing with install files
[14:57] <Riddell> smartboyhw: what's the full file name?
[14:57] <smartboyhw> Riddell, libCauchy.so.0.0
[14:57] <smartboyhw> libCauchy.so.0.9.13
[14:57] <smartboyhw> libCauchy.so.0
[14:58] <smartboyhw> *oops, libCauchy.so
[14:58] <Riddell> smartboyhw: and what's the soname?  readelf -a foo | grep SONAME
[14:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell, as I said, dealing with install files--
[14:58] <smartboyhw> -.-
[14:59] <Riddell> smartboyhw: you can't deal with the install files until you know what the package should be called
[14:59] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I know, but can rename them later
[15:00]  * yofel notes that SONAMES don't have to be a single number
[15:00] <yofel> erm, SOVERSION
[15:01] <smartboyhw> Riddell, [libCauchy.so.0.0]
[15:01] <smartboyhw> (SONAME)
[15:01] <yofel> so, package name is?
[15:01] <smartboyhw> I find this weird design
[15:01] <smartboyhw> yofel, .0.0
[15:01] <yofel> erm, FULL package name
[15:01] <smartboyhw> yofel, libcauchy0.0
[15:01] <smartboyhw> -.-
[15:01] <yofel> ack
[15:01] <yofel> it's not weird design at all, just unusual
[15:02] <yofel> attica does the same
[15:05] <smartboyhw> phew, renaming work complete
[15:06] <smartboyhw> Now, have to work out the descriptions
[15:14] <smartboyhw> Riddell, am confused: Added dependencies as according to http://lintian.debian.org/tags/ruby-script-but-no-ruby-dep.html and it still shows up
[15:18] <smartboyhw> yofel, ^
[15:20] <yofel> I can't say anything more than lintian without seeing what you did and the actual script
[15:21] <smartboyhw> yofel, http://paste.kde.org/p8d00ee24/
[15:22] <smartboyhw> http://paste.kde.org/p5d8e572b/
[15:22] <smartboyhw> (The binary is included in the cauchy package)
[15:22] <smartboyhw> E: cauchy: ruby-script-but-no-ruby-dep usr/bin/cauchymake
[15:25] <yofel> hm, no idea
[15:25] <apachelogger> did you rebuild the binary? :P
[15:26] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, that happened always
[15:26] <smartboyhw> Whenever I rebuild
[15:29] <Riddell> smartboyhw: did you do a clean rebuild?
[15:31] <smartboyhw> Riddell, clean rebuilding
[15:32] <Riddell> smartboyhw: well ignore for now we'll work it out later
[15:32] <smartboyhw> Riddell, OK-.-
[15:35] <smartboyhw> Found the problem
[15:35] <smartboyhw> Maybe?
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Yes
[15:36] <smartboyhw> I misspelt interpreter-.-
[15:48] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I can't finish the package today. Still thinking what description should it have (no README, no introduction on web, etc.)
[16:03] <Riddell> smartboyhw: might be best to just ask cyrille directly, I've had much the same issues with his other calligra dependencies
[16:25] <jmux> Seems that private application icons in Precise KDE 4.11.1 are broken. They worked with Precise 4.11.0 and they work in Raring 4.11.1. I see missing icons in kolourpaint, ksudoku, digikam, ... is this just a local problem (to our installations)?
[16:25] <Riddell> jmux: hmm that's a known issue which we patched
[16:26] <Riddell> but maybe I only patched raring
[16:26] <Riddell> jmux: yeah I did, I'll put it into precise and quantal too
[16:27] <jmux> Riddell: thanks.
[16:27] <yofel> Riddell: quantal is still in staging so please upload it there
[16:28] <Riddell> gotcha yofel
[16:36] <Riddell> jmux: 4.11.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.04.1~ppa3 uploaded to kubuntu-ppa/backports for precise
[16:39] <Riddell> and staging for quantal
[16:58] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:58] <Quintasan> seems like I can cook after all


[01:56] <kuto> hi what is inputrc
[01:57] <jrib> hi h0ndaracer2
[01:57] <h0ndaracer2> hello
[01:57] <h0ndaracer2> can u hold one sec
[01:57] <jrib> ok, refresh my mind, you want to delete something on your desktop taht you don't have permission to?
[01:58] <h0ndaracer2> yes
[01:58] <jrib> ok open up a terminal
[01:58] <jrib> !terminal
[01:58] <ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Manuals: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands
[01:59] <h0ndaracer2> ok
[01:59] <h0ndaracer2> got it
[01:59] <jrib> anything I type between '' is a command for you to enter in the terminal.  For example:
[01:59] <jrib> 'cd ~/Desktop'
[01:59] <h0ndaracer2> ok
[01:59] <jrib> take care to type it exactly like that with a capital 'D'
[02:00] <jrib> linux is case-sensitive
[02:00] <jrib> ok now type 'ls'
[02:00] <h0ndaracer2> ok hit enter
[02:01] <h0ndaracer2> ?
[02:01] <jrib> yes
[02:01] <jrib> did it list the files you have on your Desktop?
[02:01] <h0ndaracer2> yes correct
[02:01] <jrib> what is the name of the file you are deleting?
[02:02] <h0ndaracer2> 80211g
[02:02] <jrib> ok, so
[02:03] <jrib> now be very sure you want to delete this, there is no undo or trash, it disappears forever
[02:03] <h0ndaracer2> im shure i dont need it
[02:03] <jrib> 'sudo rm -rf 80211g'
[02:03] <kuto> how do i clear my terminal so it clears everything... so that my terminal looks like a new terminal without any previous inputs?
[02:04] <h0ndaracer2> ok thanks jrib
[02:04] <jrib> np, I'll have the bot send you some info on the cli
[02:04] <jrib> !cli | h0ndaracer2
[02:04] <ubotu> h0ndaracer2: The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Manuals: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands
[02:05] <h0ndaracer2> maybe if you want to u can help me with sometin else
[02:10] <jrib> h0ndaracer2: just ask in #ubuntu, that way more people can help you
[02:10] <h0ndaracer2> ok
[02:15] <jrib> h0ndaracer2:
[02:16] <jrib> h0ndaracer2: what are you trying to do?
[02:16] <kuto> how come /etc/profile in ubuntu is so small
[02:17] <h0ndaracer2> im wanting to navigate to the home folder then the examples folder so i can delete ht
[02:17] <jrib> kuto: you'd have to ask the package maintainer, but #ubuntu is a better place to ask questions
[02:17] <h0ndaracer2> those files in example that ubuntu came with
[02:18] <jrib> h0ndaracer2: that just a symbolic link I believe
[02:18] <h0ndaracer2> well how do i get to those files then
[02:19] <jrib> do you understand what a symbolic link is?
[02:19] <h0ndaracer2> not really i told you i dont know much about linux im sorry
[02:20] <jrib> that's ok, I just wanted to make sure you understood.  Don't hesitate to ask if i say something you don't understand
[02:20] <jrib> a symbolic link is like a shortcut in windows
[02:20] <jrib> (but better)
[02:20] <h0ndaracer2> ok
[02:20] <h0ndaracer2> this linux is stessing me out try to learn all this stuff
[02:20] <jrib> so do you just want to remove the link so it doesn't show up in your HOME?
[02:20] <h0ndaracer2> no im wanting to go into their and remove a folder
[02:21] <h0ndaracer2> like my examples folder
[02:21] <jrib> so you don't want the Example stuff on your computer at all?
[02:21] <jrib> it's actually in /usr/share/example-content
[02:21] <h0ndaracer2> yes
[02:21] <jrib> and the package that installs that content is example-content
[02:21] <jrib> so you should be able to just remove that package using synaptic
[02:21] <h0ndaracer2> it came with the little video about ubunut and some other files
[02:23] <h0ndaracer2> ok thanks i got to go for now i might be on in a hour or two maybe ill talk to you then thanks for all your help i appreciate it some people on here are a$$es
[02:23] <h0ndaracer2> but thank you again
[02:23] <jrib> np
[03:11] <pradeep> Will the session on Kernel happen today?
[03:14] <tonyyarusso> pradeep: I'm not sure, you'll have to find DBO
[03:14] <pradeep> tonyyarusso, what's DBO?
[03:14] <tonyyarusso> pradeep: The person I think was going to give it
[03:15] <pradeep> oh ok
[03:15] <pradeep> I see him in here -- > :D
[04:10] <seb35690> where is the person ? We want him ! :)
[04:19] <seb35690> Hi DBO
[04:41] <seb35690> DBO : what about the Kernel session ?
[04:56] <DBO> ooop
[04:56] <DBO> dinger went off for THIS room =P
[04:57] <DBO> im used to be contacted in #ubuntu-nun about this
[04:57] <tonyyarusso> Good point
[04:57] <DBO> ah someones still alive
[04:58] <DBO> nobody signed on for sys admin 101 or advanced sys admin either?
[04:58] <DBO> hmmmm a shame
[05:07] <DBO> date for next classroom is set at 20:00UTC
[05:11] <tonyyarusso> DBO: Not yet anyway :(
[05:15] <DBO> tonyyarusso, wanna change it on the wiki for me?
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> DBO: To 20:00?  sure.  So that's in...4 hours?
[05:16] <DBO> 5
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> um...
[05:16] <DBO> oh nevermind
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> I think I'm rgiht
[05:17] <DBO> windows...
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> oh, 'k
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[05:17] <DBO> dual booting
[05:17] <DBO> 4 hours
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> DBO: Are you doing both days?
[05:20] <DBO> yeah
[05:20] <DBO> guess so
[05:20] <DBO> nobody else seems to wanna =P
[05:29] <krystyna> <<Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[05:29] <krystyna> >>
[05:30] <krystyna> when i want install java something like that is on screen
[05:48] <DBO> krystyna, do you have synaptic open?
[05:48] <DBO> or apt-get running elsewhere?
[05:49] <krystyna> now yes but when i tried install java i hadn't run else..
[05:53] <DBO> krystyna, if you are sure you have no other process running with apt
[05:53] <DBO> you can manually remove the lockfile in /var/lib/dpkg
[05:54] <krystyna> how manually remove>?
[05:55] <krystyna> im in directory /var/lib/dpkg
[05:56] <krystyna> and what i have to do...
[05:59] <DBO> delete the file named lock
[06:05] <krystyna> :/
[06:05] <krystyna> access denied
[08:56] <reverseblade> wow
[08:56] <Maikel> ,
[08:56] <yipe> is it okay for us to talk?
[08:56] <Maikel> no
[08:56] <jrib> yipe talked! ban him!
[08:56] <ph8> now you've talked
[08:56] <ph8> ban them all!
[08:56] <jrib> of course it's ok, it hasn't started yet :)
[08:56] <yipe> okay
[08:57] <Wooksta> what sort of level of detail we going into here? :)
[08:57] <dougsko> hey guys
[08:57] <DBO> mmmm a crowd =)
[08:57] <reverseblade> lol
[08:57] <Maikel> were gonna lynch DBO
[08:58] <DBO> yay I love mobs!
[08:58] <DBO> starting in 2 minutes (theoretically)
[08:58] <dougsko> i didnt know this channel was here
[08:58] <seb35690> DBO you're a boss remember ! ;)
[08:58] <dougsko> this is a cool idea
[09:00] <reverseblade> DBO, are you an ubuntu dev ?
[09:00] <DBO> reverseblade, no, I am only relatively loosely affiliated with Ubuntu
[09:00] <dougsko> what other kind of "classes" are there in here?
[09:01] <ryanakca> dougsko: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom  has a list of all the classes we've hosted :)
[09:01] <DBO> ok ladies and gentlemen, we are going to get going
[09:01] <dougsko> ryanakca: cool thanks
[09:02] <seb35690> let's go !
[09:02] <DBO> let me first lay out the ground rules
[09:02] <DBO> there are two breaks for questions, one in the middle
[09:02] <DBO> and one half way through
[09:02] <DBO> feel free to /msg me questions at any time though and I will get to them during the question sessions
[09:03] <DBO> this topic is intended for new users mostly
[09:03] <DBO> and for users who hear the word kernel and think popcorn =)
[09:03] <DBO> so lets begin
[09:03] <DBO> Before we begin we need to get a bit of background history both on what an OS is and where Linux comes from.
[09:04] <DBO> We will start with the beginnings of Linux.  Keep in mind that this session is intended for the new user with little or no technical experience, and will not get hung up on terminology.
[09:04] <DBO> We will be spending a lot of time dealing with modules, I thought long and hard about whether or not this was important and decided that if there was one thing users should learn, its how to deal with modules.
[09:04] <DBO> Most users wont compile there own kernel, but many with have their own set of modules to deal with.  So that will be a large focus.
[09:04] <DBO> However before we can really dive into all of that
[09:05] <DBO> we need to get a general idea of what Linux actually is
[09:05] <DBO> many of you may know already that linux is a unix like operating system, and from the users point of view it is perfectly ok (ideology aside) to think of Linux as a type of Unix
[09:05] <DBO> However there are a couple key differences
[09:06] <DBO> namely, Unix is closed source (excluding the BSD's) where as Linux is open source, and equally as important, Linux is free to the user.
[09:06] <DBO> Linux started as a small Hobbyist OS, written by Linus Torvalds, and moved on from there.
[09:07] <DBO> As it grew in complexity, so did the OS that ran on top of it, which too began to be called Linux (or GNU/Linux)
[09:07] <DBO> This has become a small point of confusion however
[09:07] <DBO> Linux is the name of the kernel, and it is also the name of the OS which incorporates the kernel
[09:08] <DBO> To contrast this, OS X (apples OS) has a kernel named XNU, and Windows up to Vista, had a kernel named NT
[09:08] <DBO> AS you may guess, this has lead to a lot of confusion about what Linux actually is
[09:08] <DBO> So for the sake of this class, let use be very very clear, Linux is the kernel on which GNU/Linux, the operating system, runs on top of.
[09:09] <DBO> Confusing?  Probably, so we need to also briefly cover what an Operating System is
[09:09] <DBO> Operating Systems are the most basic set of programs on your computer that make the work you do possible, this DOES include the kernel.
[09:09] <DBO> Make note, an Operating System has a Kernel, but a Kernel is not an Operating System.
[09:10] <DBO> Sometimes you interact with the OS directly, sometimes through the applications you use.
[09:10] <DBO> So let's lay out the hierarchy right now, we have to do it eventually and it always seems too early.
[09:10] <DBO> There are layers to a computer operating system, four of them in Unix to be precise.
[09:10] <DBO> Layer one, the very top layer, we will call Users.  Layer two we will call Shells, layer three will be Linux (the Kernel), and layer four will be the hardware itself.
[09:10] <DBO> so it looks like:
[09:10] <DBO> Users
[09:10] <DBO> Shells
[09:11] <DBO> Kernel
[09:11] <DBO> Hardware
[09:11] <DBO> simple enough?
[09:11] <DBO> oh thank you =)
[09:11] <DBO> its hard to get good help =P
[09:11] <DBO> anyhow
[09:11] <DBO> These layers interact only with the layer above or below them with a couple exceptions we wont be covering
[09:12] <DBO> So as a user to get something done, you interact with shells, shells interact with the kernel, the kernel interacts with the hardware, gets the result, and passes the info back up the chain of command
[09:12] <DBO> From this rather simplistic view it is easy to guess where the rest of the "OS" is if its not the kernel, and clearly its not the user, it must be the "shells".
[09:12] <DBO> And thats pretty much right, before we had a GUI (graphical user interface) your OS was the shell and all the basic commands you could run from it.
[09:13] <DBO> Even today for the most part GUI applications are not really part of the OS but things that run on top of it (excluding the case of Windows).
[09:13] <DBO> Do however keep in mind that what is and is not part of your OS is often a fuzzy line
[09:13] <DBO> This is the basic set of knowledge we need to continue on with our kernel
[09:14] <DBO> at this time we are going to take a short 5 minute break for questions
[09:14] <DBO> I want to make sure everyone is fairly clear on what is going on ehre
[09:14] <DBO> you may ask questions directly in the room =)
[09:14] <Ma1kel> Are you single??
[09:14] <DBO> no
[09:15] <Wooksta> whats the expected duration of this class (approx)?
[09:15] <DBO> I can adjust for your preference =)
[09:15] <Ma1kel> :))
[09:15] <Wooksta> well i aint got much to do for the rest of the night so go as low as u want :P
[09:15] <DBO> everyone is clear on these basic concepts then?
[09:16] <LjL> DBO: is my thinking correct that even the concept of a "kernel" can really only apply when you're talking about an OS that runs with 1) virtualized memory and 2) kernel protection (i.e. applications can't go into kernel mode)?
[09:16] <LjL> at least, the possibility of clearly separating "kernel" and "the rest" without putting another fuzzy line on there
[09:16] <DBO> LjL, in the sense we will be discussing it yes
[09:17] <DBO> LjL, it gets fuzzy when you talk about multi-tasking operating systems that dont offer virtualized memory and kernel protection in any sense
[09:17] <DBO> but those are no longer around so we wont worry about them
[09:17] <LjL> DBO: yes, that was the kind of thing i had in mind, and yes, i realize it hardly applies to today's systems anymore
[09:17] <DBO> its a very good point though
[09:18] <DBO> as computers grow in complexity
[09:18] <DBO> it becomes harder and harder to figure out what classification any one piece of code belongs to
[09:18] <DBO> any other questions? =)
[09:19] <DBO> ok let's move on
[09:19] <DBO> Im going to leave that off
[09:19] <DBO> just ask question whenever since there is not many people here =)
[09:19] <DBO> We can move on to discussing a couple features that make the Linux kernel special
[09:20] <DBO> these features are present in other kernels of course, but they are some of the most basic features of the Linux kernel that make everything you see and do on Linux possible
[09:20] <DBO>  Linux is a multitasking operating system, which also means its kernel has to handle multitasking, after all, it is part of the operating system.
[09:21] <DBO> What does this mean?  Well it means that the kernel is taking care of "interrupting" applications so that another one can work.
[09:21] <DBO> Keep in mind that your computer can only really do one things at once, so when it works on one thing it puts other things on hold
[09:21] <DBO> It is the kernel that decides which thing needs to work and when, and it is very smart about it
[09:21] <DBO> Your kernel will take note when one application is waiting on data, for example if your music player is waiting on that mp3 file from your hard drive, it can't start to decode it until the file gets there.
[09:21] <DBO> So the kernel will put that process on hold until the data gets there, giving other processes a chance to use the hardware.
[09:22] <DBO> This takes place very very very fast however, in the short time we have been discussing this your kernel has switched between different tasks thousands of times, making sure they all have the processing time from the hardware that they need.
[09:22] <DBO> In fact, this is where the concept of processor time comes from, the more a process has to access the hardware, the more processor time it uses.
[09:22] <DBO> This very basic functionality was one of the most important features in early kernels/operating systems and today remains one of the core technologies of computers.
[09:23] <DBO> Without this ability running more than one application at a time would become impossible
[09:23] <DBO> The kernel like we mentioned, deals with all hardware interaction, so when you save a file, your application makes a request that gets passed along to the kernel.
[09:23] <DBO> The kernel will make the decision on whether or not to let you, and even when to write it out.
[09:24] <DBO> In general Linux will delay actually writing the data to the hard drive as long as reasonably possible so that if the data is called up again, as is quite often the case, it already has it loaded in memory (note that one of the slowest devices in your system is the hard drive).
[09:24] <DBO> However this is not without its own problems
[09:24] <DBO> Having so many programs running at once can cause its own issues for the computer.
[09:24] <DBO> Each program will need its own set of memory from the system.
[09:24] <DBO> So it calls out to the kernel says "hey, I need 10MB of memory" and the kernel says back "ok, here you go, your memory is at address 400-2000".
[09:25] <DBO> This is what we call virtualized memory (and no, your kernel does not speak english =P)
[09:25] <LjL> DBO: about the hard drive... when a given task is using too much CPU for my likings, i know i can "renice" it, i.e. change the scheduling priority. is there anything like that for I/O activity in Linux?
[09:26] <DBO> for the most part no, I/O will be load balanced fairly equally
[09:26] <DBO> but there is no quick method Im aware of
[09:26] <DBO> So our application has requested from the kernel a chunk of memory, and the kernel has provided it
[09:27] <DBO> normally our application would use this memory and all is well
[09:27] <DBO> However often times poorly writing applications might try to write to memory they are not assigned, and if they were allowed to this could result in a whole range of badness all the way up to a full fledged system crash.
[09:27] <DBO> The operating system will prevent this of course, this is called Memory Protection.
[09:27] <DBO> Older systems this was not the case
[09:27] <DBO> memory protection is one of the biggest improvements in computer stability ever
[09:27] <DBO> One of the most fun bits of Linux is just how portable it is.  Everyone jokes that they have Linux running on their wristwatch and so on, but in the end it really can be run on just about anything.
[09:28] <DBO> It runs on PDA's, Routers, Macs, PC's, Sun systems, I'm sure it would run on R2D2 if we could get him to stop saving the Universe for a minute.
[09:28] <LjL> ... that provides memory protection hardware ;)
[09:28] <DBO> ah yes
[09:28] <DBO> In fact Linux runs on 20+ different processor architectures, it will even run on your iPod.
[09:28] <DBO>  However this was not always so, and Linux has had to go through a lot of work and different versions to get there.  We are currently in version 2.6.17 in Edgy Eft.
[09:29] <DBO> These numbers are not just random, so lets look at them for a bit.  The first number defines the kernel version, and is changed only when VERY major changes in the kernel occur.
[09:29] <DBO>  In fact this has only changed twice, one from 0 to 1, and again for 1 to 2.
[09:29] <DBO> The second number designates then major revision of the kernel version, and the third number is minor revisions (driver changes and so on)
[09:29] <DBO> You will sometimes see a forth number tacked on, these designate a bugfix or security release that does not quite justify a new minor revision.
[09:29] <DBO> There is a bit of confusion going around right now about even and odd numbers.  Even numbers are often said to be stable releases, odd numbers unstable releases when talking about the second number.
[09:30] <DBO> So 2.6 is said stable and 2.7 unstable.  This actually used to be the case, which is where the confusion comes from.
[09:30] <DBO> Prior to the 2.6 release, even numbers did mean stable and odd meant development.
[09:30] <DBO> So 2.4 was a stable release but 2.3 was a developer release.  Please note that this is no longer the case, odd and even have no more significance.
[09:30] <DBO> In fact, all of this mumbo jumbo about what your kernel is doing is not so far out of your grasp, we can actually look and see what our kernel has been up to.
[09:31] <DBO> so the first and most basic command we introduce new users to is the "dmesg" command.
[09:31] <DBO> It is perfectly safe to run this command for yourself, feel free to try it on your own PC.
[09:31] <DBO> dmesg will show you what errors and informational message your kernel has for you =)
[09:32] <DBO> A lot of times you will see info about hardware drivers being loaded, network interface errors, hits on firewall rules sometimes pop up in there.
[09:32] <DBO>  This is the most basic way to interact with your kernel, by looking at what it has to say.
[09:32] <DBO>  This has a lot of usage and some of you may have even been asked to use this when troubleshooting problems in #ubuntu.
[09:32] <DBO> Of course simply watching is no fun
[09:33] <DBO> So we need to learn to interact with our Linux kernel, and to do that, we need to understand that our Kernel is Voltron
[09:33] <DBO> Some of this may be confusing at first, but we will be doing a hands on excersize shortly.
[09:33] <DBO> There is one other key feature to talk about however, that being kernel modules.  Kernel modules are, unsurprisingly, modular additions to the kernel to add functionality.
[09:33] <DBO> The most common kind of kernel module you will deal with is a device driver.
[09:33] <DBO> If you are running a nvidia video card and you wish to have OpenGL working, you need to load the nvidia kernel module.
[09:34] <DBO> Even things like file system support have been put into kernel modules today, there are tons of them
[09:34] <DBO> To see every kernel module you have loaded right now, simply enter "lsmod" into a terminal.
[09:34] <DBO> To see how many of them are loaded, you can pipe that to wc -l via "lsmod | wc -l"
[09:34] <DBO> Most of you will see things like "soundcore" which is the core of sound production, or "floppy" which provideds floppy disk support.
[09:35] <DBO> pretty obvious what those do
[09:35] <DBO> However some of them like.... say agpgart are not so obvious.
[09:35] <DBO> However if you look to the right a bit you can see two sets of numbers, those give the size of the module and how many times they are in usage (you can use a module multiple times).
[09:35] <DBO> To the right of that it lists even more modules, you can think of these modules as depending on the module you are looking at, because more or less they do.
[09:35] <DBO> So it becomes pretty clear now, agpgart is loaded because your video card needs it (for the AGP bus).
[09:36] <DBO> Even still some modules don't have anything listed as things that depend on them, but we can still get more info.  Running the command "modinfo font" gives us information about the module named "font".
[09:36] <DBO> This will give us information about the license, author, and a basic description of the module.  In this case James Simmons is the author, he licensed it GPL, and the module provides us with Console Fonts
[09:36] <DBO> To simply get the description of the module, you can do "modinfo -d font", however if the module has no discription (as is often true or closed source modules), this will return nothing.
[09:36] <DBO> One thing to note about modules is that they do not HAVE to be modules.   When you compile your kernel (which we will not be covering), or it was compiled for you, modules can be compiled into the kernel directly so they cannot be removed.
[09:37] <DBO> This makes the kernel custom to the machine you are on, but makes it essentially useless for things like Ubuntu where we have a large number of people using the same kernel.
[09:37] <DBO> Any questions so far? =)
[09:37] <jrib> is there any advantage to compiling modules into the kernel?
[09:37] <seb35690> like performance ?
[09:37] <DBO> yes
[09:38] <DBO> performance will be slightly better
[09:38] <ShakaNoobSaint> why exactly?
[09:38] <DBO> when you abstract things out to modules and such there is a slight overhead
[09:38] <DBO> when you compile is one hunk of code it is more streamlined
[09:38] <DBO> thats why distros like gentoo compile all the modules you need for your hardware right into the kernel
[09:39] <DBO> of course this comes at the high price of actually having to compile your own kernel
[09:39] <seb35690> how about ubuntu ?
[09:39] <DBO> which in that sense, Linux is fairly unique as the only OS available to users where this is readily available to you as an option
[09:39] <DBO> Ubuntu does not have you recompile the kernel on your own
[09:40] <DBO> so almost all drivers (excluding some very core ones) are loaded in as modules
[09:40] <reverseblade> how about smp and apic are these modules too ?
[09:40] <DBO> APIC is, smp is part of the kernel
[09:42] <reverseblade> why did we stop ?
[09:42] <DBO> ok we are going to move on
[09:42] <DBO> (was waiting to see if there are more questions)
[09:42] <DBO> Loading/Stopping Modules at Boot:
[09:42] <DBO> wait
[09:42] <DBO> wrong header =P
[09:42] <DBO> I jumped ahead
[09:42] <DBO> Inserting and Removing your own modules:
[09:42] <DBO> There is more to do with kernel modules however, you can insert your own kernel module with "sudo modprobe [kernel module] " and the module will be inserted until it is either removed or the machine is rebooted.
[09:43] <DBO> You can remove them with "sudo modprobe -r [kernel module] "
[09:43] <DBO> So let's try it out, I encourage everyone to give this a run
[09:43] <DBO> We are going to load in a dummy module, confirm that it loaded, then unload it.
[09:43] <reverseblade> what do you mean with own modules ?
[09:43] <DBO> well
[09:43] <DBO> not every module gets loaded at boot
[09:43] <seb35690> So we don't have to compile Kernel with Ubuntu for better performances ?
[09:44] <seb35690> I'm a newbie:)
[09:44] <DBO> seb35690, you could get a small performance boost that way yes
[09:44] <DBO> but its not worth it
[09:44] <DBO> the performance increase would be very very tiny
[09:44] <DBO> and hard to measure
[09:44] <reverseblade> you don't mean custom modules but , unloaded modules by "own modules"
[09:44] <DBO> yes
[09:44] <DBO> sorry
[09:44] <jrib> seb35690: might be a good learning exercise if you are curious but don't do it if you are trying to make your computer go faster
[09:45] <DBO> you can insert and remove modules that are not otherwise loaded in your kernel
[09:45] <seb35690> ok jrib I understand
[09:45] <DBO> First we load the module with "sudo modprobe dummy"
[09:45] <DBO> that command will load in the module named "dummy"
[09:45] <DBO> it doesnt do anything, but its there for fun things like this
[09:45] <DBO> Generally when we enter this command nothing will happen, just a new line and no output, that means no errors as far as finding the module.
[09:46] <DBO> Now if this were a real module we could run the command "dmesg" which we talked about earlier to see info about what the module has done thus far.
[09:46] <DBO> This is extremely useful in the case where you module is loading but it does not seem to be working properly.
[09:46] <DBO> Let's confirm that the module has indeed loaded using the "lsmod" command.  Run "lsmod | grep ^dummy", we are piping it to grep to do a search, and searching for a line that starts with (carrot means start with) dummy.
[09:47] <DBO> You should see output containing the word "Dummy"
[09:47] <DBO> this means that your dummy module loaded fine =)
[09:47] <DBO> Now run the command "sudo modprobe -r dummy" and then search for dummy in lsmod again.  It is no longer there.
[09:48] <narvik86> rmmod is for the same?
[09:48] <DBO> That is it, that is all there is to loading and unloading modules.  However this is only temporary, as soon as you remove them or reboot the machine they will no longer load until requested by you again
[09:48] <DBO> narvik86, yep
[09:48] <DBO> I tend to use sudo modprobe -r as its seems more consistent if you are going to use modprobe to the put the module in, why not use it to remove it too?
[09:49] <DBO> ok
[09:49] <DBO> Often users will find they have to load modules to make certain parts of their hardware work.
[09:50] <DBO> For example a lot of TV Tuner card users must load the ivtv module when they boot.
[09:50] <jrib> description for for rmmod says most users will want to use modprobe
[09:50] <DBO> yep =)
[09:50] <DBO> same for insmod
[09:50] <DBO> IVTV, by the way, does not come with Ubuntu so they also have to compile it but thats a whole other class.
[09:50] <DBO> To load a module on boot you simply add the name of the module to the end of /etc/modules.
[09:50] <DBO> So ivtv users would add ivtv on a new line to the end of that file.
[09:51] <DBO> If you wished to prevent a module from loading which is not uncommon for ndiswrapper users, you would add a line that looked like "blacklist [module] " to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
[09:51] <DBO> This would prevent the file from being loaded at boot and allow you to add ndiswrapper to /etc/modules safely.
[09:51] <DBO> These files all both owned by root
[09:51] <DBO> and you will need root access to modify them
[09:51] <DBO> however I encourage you to look at your modules and blacklist files and see whats in them
[09:52] <reverseblade> DBO, what is the correlation between modules or drivers ,or are there any ?
[09:52] <DBO> there is a large corelation
[09:52] <DBO> correlation even
[09:52] <DBO> in linux, for the most part, drivers ARE modules
[09:52] <DBO> most every single driver on your system is loaded into your kernel as a module
[09:53] <DBO> your kernel can then use that module (driver) to talk to the hardware
[09:53] <jrib> can you only modprobe stuff in /etc/modules then?
[09:53] <DBO> nope
[09:53] <DBO> you can modprobe in anything that you have a module file fore
[09:53] <DBO> stuff in /etc/modules will be loaded in at boot however
[09:53] <DBO> so you generally wont need to modprobe it in yourself =)
[09:54] <jrib> what's the reason for a blacklist instead of just removing it from /etc/modules?
[09:54] <DBO> (note modprobe is not really a verb, but what do I care?)
[09:54] <Wooksta> do u need to specify the full path to a module you build or do you put it in a special directory?
[09:54] <DBO> jrib, your kernel on boot will try to load modules for hardware it detects
[09:54] <jrib> DBO: ah
[09:54] <DBO> Wooksta, when you make install the modules it will put it in the special directory for modules
[09:55] <Wooksta> ok thanks, whats that dir location btw? :>
[09:55] <DBO> /lib/modules/KERNELVERSION
[09:55] <Wooksta> ok thanks :)
[09:56] <DBO> modules are specific to the kernel they were compiled on
[09:56] <DBO> any other questions? =)
[09:56] <DBO> im pretty well wrapped up
[09:56] <seb35690> an example with an Nvidia graphic card ?
[09:57] <DBO> an example for what?
[09:57] <Wooksta> im actaully having trouble getting my nvidia card to work but i was gonna ask about that at the end  :P
[09:57] <seb35690> "modules are specific to the kernel they were compiled on"
[09:57] <DBO> if you want you can see your nvidia kernel module by doing "lsmod | grep nvidia"
[09:57] <DBO> seb35690, ah yes, perfect example
[09:57] <DBO> Wooksta, well perhaps its a good learning experience
[09:57] <DBO> what trouble are you having?
[09:58] <Wooksta> well i installed nvidia-glx and when i do "sudo nvidia-glx-config enable" i get the following error: "Error: unable to load nvidia kernel driver! Be sure to have installed the nvidia driver for your running kern"
[09:58] <DBO> Wooksta, ok run this command
[09:58] <DBO> modinfo nvidia
[09:59] <DBO> does it say it cant find the file?
[09:59] <Wooksta> got a whole load of stuff back u want me to look for something specific?
[09:59] <Wooksta> filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/volatile/nvidia.ko  <-- seems to be able to find the file
[10:00] <DBO> and it seems you are running the ubuntu version to boot
[10:00] <DBO> run this command "sudo nvidia-xconfig"
[10:00] <Wooksta> new xorg.conf written
[10:00] <DBO> now restart X and you should be good ot go
[10:01] <Wooksta> ok whats the best way to restart x?
[10:01] <seb35690> CTRL+ALT+F1
[10:01] <DBO> log out of GNOME/KDE
[10:01] <DBO> then ctrl + alt + backspace
[10:01] <Wooksta> ok brb, thanks :)
[10:01] <seb35690> yes excuse me
[10:02] <seb35690> :(
[10:02] <DBO> seb35690, perfectly ok =)
[10:02] <DBO> ctrl alt F1 switches to a console
[10:02] <DBO> but doesnt shut down X
[10:02] <seb35690> yes i know it
[10:03] <DBO> that pretty well wraps up todays session
[10:04] <DBO> transcripts will be made available
[10:04] <DBO> and I will post the whole speech I wrote and worked from in paragraph form as well
[10:04] <Wooksta> well im now on a nice 640x480 so something happened :P
[10:04] <ShakaNoobSaint> awseome, thanks for the "class" DBO
[10:05] <DBO> Wooksta, we'll have to move this to #ubuntu-xgl
[10:05] <DBO> ShakaNoobSaint, =)
[10:05] <Wooksta> no problem, thanks for the class, hope theres another few soon :)
[10:06] <seb35690> Thnaks DBO, it's perfectly clear !
[10:07] <seb35690> *Thanks
[10:49] <h0ndaracer2> can someone help  me wit something in an installion real quick
[10:53] <ShakaGoldSaint> ?
[11:52] <seb35690> is there a sesson tomorrow ?
[11:53] <seb35690> *session
[11:53] <sonicGB> Schedule is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom#head-3ed0e83bca0918de43c895c4bb96d9bb50d446a9
[11:54] <seb35690> I mean, will it be the same content ?
[11:56] <seb35690> the same content that today ?


[15:39] <jrwren> happy 22.04 release!
[15:40] <cmaloney> w00t
[15:40] <cmaloney> snap it up. Literally.
[15:47] <jrwren> Upgrades to 22.04 LTS are currently not enabled (due a bug with snapd and update-notifier) but will be in the next couple of days.
[15:48] <jrwren> because of course pointless software clogs things up.
[15:51] <greg-g> lol
[16:07] <jrwren> It makes me sad when I think about all that work going down the drain into snap and where they could be if they had spent that elsewhere.
[16:21] <jrwren> "ssh-rsa is now disabled by default in OpenSSH 64. See bug 1961833 27 to learn how to selectively re-enable it if necessary. If you are upgrading a system remotely over SSH, you should check that you are not relying on this to ensure that you will retain access after the upgrade."
[16:21] <jrwren> LMAO. I just had to create an ssh-rsa for FIPS because they didn't like my ecdsa
[16:25] <cmaloney> heh
[16:26] <jrwren> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/jammy-jellyfish-release-notes/24668
[16:26] <jrwren> interesting how the Ubuntu Server section starts with Ubuntu HA/Clustering and things I'ev never heard of before.
[16:26] <cmaloney> Yeah
[16:28] <cmaloney> Quagga replaced with frr <- I have no idea what these are
[16:28] <cmaloney> They sound like something a kindergartener would name
[16:29] <cmaloney> Starting with 22.04 LTS, besides the standard device-specific preinstalled image, we now also provide a live installer image for the RISC-V architecture. This can be helpful when wanting to install Ubuntu on an NVMe drive on an Unmatched board, for instance.
[16:44] <jrwren> Quagga is a router. OSFP and stuff.
[16:44] <jrwren> actually, i think it is ipv6. I know a guy who worked on it.
[16:44] <jrwren> https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/blob/v2.4.1/CHANGES.md?plain=1#L42
[16:44] <jrwren> :(
[17:31] <cmaloney> Yeah, I think I'm going to need to find an alternative to Ubuntu soon
[17:31] <cmaloney> either that or run 20.04 until it explodes
[17:31] <cmaloney> (who am I kidding?  and "how are they doing fips with their Go" and on and on :(
[18:13] <cmaloney> heh
[18:14] <cmaloney> My experiences with snaps have been a series of App armor things being broken
[18:14] <cmaloney> and log files filling up
[18:14] <cmaloney> and that feeling of not being in control of when something decides to update itself or knowing what's going on with my computer
[18:14] <cmaloney> if I wanted that experience I'd go wit Windows
[18:41] <jrwren> yup


[13:31] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +257 cases (now 1.6 million), +3 deaths (now 28041), +25203 tests (now 11.2 million) since a day ago


[15:52] <cyberman> Hi
[15:52] <cyberman> hi
[15:52] <cyberman> can i install KVM linux on Lubuntu
[15:53] <cyberman> ???
[15:53] <cyberman> anuone can answer plz
[16:18] <almsoft_> hi
[16:18] <almsoft_> anyone here
[16:19] <almsoft_> can I install kvm linux on lubuntu
[16:20] <krytarik> !kvm | almsoft_
[18:41] <miruza> hello
[18:41] <miruza> anyone here?
[18:42] <miruza> :-/
[18:43] <krytarik> miruza: If you have a support question, just ask it.
[18:58] <miruza> Wanted to create a openstack machine. Installed conjure-up and tried to install with NovaLXD spell. The installation always get stuck at copying image 100% during juju bootstrap. I reinstalled lunbuntu several times, tried it in normal ubuntu too. Still same problem on fresh installs.
[19:11] <miruza> Did someone answered my problem?
[19:12] <miruza> Electricity went for a bit, i did not see
[19:18] <miruza> Helli?
[19:28] <demophobia> Good afternoon? I wish to buy a cheap laptop and use lubuntu. I have just read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements#Lightweight_GUI_alternative_.28Xubuntu_and_Lubuntu.29 ...
[19:29] <demophobia> That implies this laptop will be a good choice, but do you agree? https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Latitude-D520-1-66Ghz-Notebook/dp/B0035RNLWY/ref=sr_1_73?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1503170513&sr=1-73&refinements=p_36%3A2421886011
[19:31] <demophobia> I am thinking to buy it today.
[19:40] <demophobia> checking release notes and known issues now -- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu#Lubuntu_LTS