[04:38] <hobgoblin> morning - if anyone's awake - what should I file a usb not opening thunar against ?
[04:40] <hobgoblin> nvm - google fu was weak in this one today :p
[05:17] <hobgoblin> while I think about it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ has got grandr on the list - shouldn't be there as it's not in the repos now
[05:42] <astraljava> hobgoblin: You could ping GridCube about it when he's present.
[05:42] <hobgoblin> okey doke
[05:53] <Unit193> I'm pretty sure he's aware.
[05:54] <hobgoblin> that's alright then - just seems a bit daft to have it on there :)
[05:54] <Unit193> Aye, it's not an option really.
[06:44] <ochosi> hobgoblin: yeah, i think it was discussed previously, removed it from the list now
[06:54] <ochosi> madnick: ping
[07:04] <madnick> ochosi: pong
[07:04] <madnick> as for what you said yesterday
[07:04] <madnick> I've been reviewing the code
[07:05] <madnick> I've just not implemented anything or uploaded a branch
[07:06] <hobgoblin> ochosi: thanks :)
[07:07] <ochosi> madnick: ok, just wanted to get back to you on that
[07:08] <madnick> ochosi: if i wanted to use bazar on this, could i?
[07:08] <madnick> Do I have any rights
[07:08] <ochosi> i haven't created a team or anything yet, but we can quickly look into that now if you have time
[07:09] <madnick> okay awesome
[07:09] <madnick> Maybe we could just assign it to Xubuntu artwork?
[07:10] <ochosi> are you in that team?
[07:10] <madnick> i think so
[07:10] <madnick> 1 sec
[07:10] <madnick> Hm I seem to have been kicked off that team
[07:11] <ochosi> that must've been knome_'s spring cleaning
[07:11] <madnick> how about xubuntu team?
[07:11] <ochosi> too many people in there
[07:11] <madnick> i see
[07:11] <ochosi> but actually i'm wondering whether i messed up something, because the /code page says that we host our code @ unity-greeter .)
[07:12] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~dr.madnick  should show all places you can upload.
[07:12] <ochosi> guess i should've pulled their code and then pushed it to our repo, will quickly inquire in #launchpad
[07:12] <madnick> i see
[07:14] <madnick> Im not sure where this belongs, seeing as plymouth stuff was decided to be "artwork", i think this should be aswell, the problem with seperating people who "do artwork" and others, is this hehe
[07:14] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[07:14] <ochosi> are there any plans/blueprints for plymouth yet?
[07:14] <madnick> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-new-plymouth
[07:15] <ochosi> "Prepare refreshed drafts for the theme" > can they be found anywhere?
[07:15] <madnick> But I have not been hearing anything specific this cycle, about the things that should be implemented
[07:15] <ochosi> ok
[07:15] <ochosi> i see
[07:15] <madnick> ochosi: I'd say its the old one
[07:16] <madnick> Refreshing has not been done
[07:16] <ochosi> well personally i think the circular progress-indicator would be nice
[07:16] <madnick> Yeah
[07:16] <ochosi> just any kind of spinner
[07:17] <madnick> I think a general review of the code used for feedback should be done
[07:17] <madnick> Currently we have a lot of "last minute" code
[07:17] <ochosi> you mean feedback like "running fsck"?
[07:17] <madnick> yeah
[07:18] <ochosi> how many of those feedback scenarios are there?
[07:18] <madnick> And the most annoying aspect is the fact that testing plymouth stuff in a VM is almost impossible
[07:18] <ochosi> mhm
[07:18] <madnick> ochosi: there is fsck, cryptsetup, indicator, press X key
[07:18] <madnick> etc
[07:18] <ochosi> could you make a (complete) list?
[07:19] <ochosi> then we could discuss each one of them
[07:19] <ochosi> ideally create a spec in the wiki and link it to the roadmap
[07:19] <madnick> That would not be useful, seeing as we do not implement all of them, we should instead review the possibilities
[07:19] <knome> hmm, i can't remember droppint madnick off the art team
[07:19] <knome> *dropping
[07:19] <madnick> I don't remember being dropped either
[07:19] <ochosi> knome: tbh i think xubuntu-dev would be more appropriate for the lightdm engine/theme
[07:20] <madnick> No mail
[07:20] <knome> ochosi, yeah, but that's problematic
[07:20] <ochosi> knome: i can also create a separate lp-team
[07:21] <knome> hmh, art is fine for that
[07:21] <madnick> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1046805/
[07:22] <madnick> these are the possibilties
[07:22] <knome> ochosi, if you want to propose a new xubuntu LP team, add that to the meeting agenda
[07:22] <madnick> ochosi: but those are just callbacks, the "messages" is what decides actions
[07:22] <knome> ochosi, i'm not sure if we need any new, rather drop the old ;)
[07:23] <knome> ochosi, we were thinking with pleia2 that maybe -marketing would work well, and we could drop -website then
[07:26] <ochosi> madnick: actually there is another greeter we could use/fork
[07:26] <ochosi> madnick: that one doesn't even use gnome-settings-daemon
[07:26] <madnick> okay?
[07:26] <ochosi> it's pantheon-greeter from the elementary project
[07:27] <knome> don't confuse him (us)
[07:27] <ochosi> ?
[07:27] <knome> ;)
[07:27] <knome> "there's yet another..."
[07:27] <madnick> The thing that is quite awesome with the unity-greeter is it comes complete with code for screenreader and virtual keyboard, aswell as other neat stuff
[07:28] <knome> ^ that
[07:28] <knome> 's ++
[07:28] <ochosi> madnick: yeah, not sure pantheon-greeter has that
[07:29] <madnick> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-pantheon/pantheon-greeter/1.x/view/head:/src/indicators.vala
[07:29] <madnick> would seem it likes gnome-settings-daemon
[07:30] <ochosi> yeah, weird. then maybe it's just bad packaging
[07:30] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06182012-093032am.php
[07:30] <ochosi> knome: i think i'm more or less done with the greybird-revamp
[07:31] <knome> :)
[07:31] <ochosi> i even created a pixmap panel-background for the launcher-panel in case we won't use the compositor
[07:31] <ochosi> not sure you'll like it though :p
[07:32] <knome> heh
[07:32] <ochosi> here it is: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06182012-093211am.php
[07:32] <knome> i got to test that sometime
[07:32] <ochosi> haven't pushed the vast changes i did yesterday yet
[07:32] <knome> hmmh.
[07:32] <ochosi> wondering whether i can retrospectively split them up in smaller commits
[07:33] <ochosi> not really sure about that
[07:33] <knome> that's not completely bad :)
[07:33] <ochosi> :)
[07:33] <ochosi> if the panel is on autohide, it looks a bit as if it would slide in underneath the wallpaper
[07:33] <ochosi> because of the drop-shadow
[07:34] <ochosi> pixmaps have the disadvantage that people have to change/modify them if they make the panel higher than the height of the pixmap (bg-repeat), but it's easy enough to change now in the panel-properties
[07:34] <ochosi> madnick: we could also try to convince robert_ancell to drop gnome-settings-daemon
[07:41] <ochosi> madnick: hehe, just realized i already tried that before
[07:41] <knome> eh
[07:41] <ochosi> > Were not going to modify Unity greeter to support different use cases,
[07:41] <ochosi> > as we want to be able to quickly adapt it in it's current form.  A
[07:41] <ochosi> > forked version however shouldn't be too hard to keep in sync if you were
[07:41] <ochosi> > willing to maintain it.
[07:44] <madnick> hehe
[07:44] <madnick> Well, lets just fork it
[07:45] <ochosi> yup
[07:48] <ochosi> madnick: if you apply to xubuntu-artwork lp-group i can approve you and then you can push to bzr
[07:49] <ochosi> (just changed the maintainer of xubuntu-greeter to xubuntu-artwork)
[07:51] <knome> ochosi, note that you an add people directly too
[07:52] <ochosi> true
[07:53] <ochosi> madnick: you've been added
[07:53] <madnick> Technically I think I could add myself aswell :P I just need to get some login stuff
[07:53] <madnick> ah thanks :)
[07:53] <ochosi> np
[07:55] <ochosi> madnick: if you could do an initial push now so that we have just the fork there, that'd be great. i just wanna make sure everything works
[07:56] <madnick> ochosi: I do not have a suitable dev environment for that, I will need to setup a VM with the new images and get the tools, I will download the required things today
[07:56] <ochosi> ah ok, in that case please ping me as soon as you've done that
[07:57] <madnick> will do :)
[07:57] <ochosi> k, thanks
[07:57] <ochosi> :)
[10:11] <knome> astraljava, how was the QA meeting?
[10:11] <knome> astraljava, i forgot that completely, but turned out i couldn't have made it anyway :)
[10:12] <knome> astraljava, i quickly looked at backlog, was there something you needed to check from me?
[10:15]  * knome reads the chanlogs
[10:15] <hobgoblin> I thought it went well
[10:15] <ochosi> knome: there are meetings @ml
[10:16] <knome> ochosi, ?
[10:16] <knome> ochosi, "minutes" ?
[10:16] <ochosi> meeting minutes?
[10:17] <knome> you said "meetings" :D
[10:17] <knome> i'm lost.
[10:17] <knome> what meetings are on the ml?
[10:17] <ochosi> yeah, sry, i meant meeting minutes :)
[10:17] <knome> hmm.
[10:18] <ochosi> (i'm kinda focussing on something else right now)
[10:18] <knome> why did i miss that mail? BLAH
[10:18] <knome> wait...
[10:18] <knome> i haven't received it?
[10:19] <knome> oh, hmm
[10:19] <knome> weird
[10:19] <knome> that's at my inbox
[10:20] <knome> ok, fixed
[10:25] <knome> heh, "fix committed" on the bug GridCube pasted :)
[10:26] <knome> i suppose the buttons are coming this cycle, at least based on the discussions with stgraber :)
[10:26] <astraljava> knome: It's the world's slowest meeting. Takes only a few years to complete.
[10:26] <knome> yeah, i notice. :)
[10:26] <knome> maybe using meetingology in a more relaxed way is not too bad
[10:27] <knome> i mean, just use #startmeeting, #topic and #info, and gathering the meeting minutes is a breeze
[10:28] <astraljava> Well, I found I could not create strict topics, nor give out any precise info lines either, so didn't see a real reason for starting it properly either.
[10:28] <astraljava> It was more of a conversational meeting.
[10:30] <knome> hmm.
[10:30] <knome> imo "failed" should be filed only if you weren't able to *finish* the test
[10:31] <astraljava> Yes. Why?
[10:31] <knome> even if something failed, just link the bugs, then mark as passed
[10:31] <astraljava> Hmm...
[10:31] <knome> because:
[10:31] <knome> if you mark it as "failed", it looks like the xubuntu iso's are not ready for release
[10:31] <knome> because that's the stats people are looking at
[10:31] <astraljava> Is there a case you're referring to?
[10:32] <knome> astraljava, If anything failed, you mark the image as failed. If you didn't stumble upon anything unexpected, you'll mark it as Passed.
[10:32] <knome> ^ from the meeting log
[10:32] <astraljava> I think we might have a mixed understanding of 'releasable'.
[10:33] <astraljava> Are you referring to "installation failed"?
[10:33] <astraljava> Releasable to me covers a bit more than just "being able to install".
[10:39] <knome> astraljava, only critical bugs should fail the image
[10:40] <knome> astraljava, there will be bugs on releases anyway, those shouldn't stop us from releasing non-final milestones
[10:40] <knome> astraljava, especially not alphas
[10:40] <astraljava>  Yeah ok, maybe that needs a little bit refining. I'll remember that for the next meeting, and post corrections. Thanks!
[10:40] <knome> astraljava, that's why there are the "bugs" and "critical bugs" sections in the QA tracker
[10:41] <knome> astraljava, i've seen some tests with some really minor bugs marked as "failed"
[10:41] <hobgoblin> astraljava: so mine should be a pass with a bug - is that right?
[10:41] <knome> if those turn up, and the test pass rate is, say 50%, that isn't completely accurate
[10:41] <astraljava> hobgoblin: From the recent discussion, yeah I think that's how it is.
[10:41] <hobgoblin> k - cool - so long as I know
[10:42] <knome> hobgoblin, depends on the bug; if it's something that is seriously interfering from installing, it should be "bug", not "critical", and thus the test should not fail
[10:42] <knome> astraljava, example; the terminal help doesn't open; should that be a "fail", just because there is that bug? :)
[10:42] <hobgoblin> knome: it was nothing like that
[10:42] <astraljava> knome: But we shouldn't be talking about "interfering from installing". That's different from being releasable.
[10:43] <knome> astraljava, i think it would be meaningful to ask the QA team too what they think of this
[10:43] <knome> astraljava, and what is generally the difference between a bug and a critical bug
[10:43] <astraljava> yeah I agree. This is a little too vague now.
[10:43] <knome> yup. great :)
[10:43] <knome> i'll continue with the log
[10:44] <hobgoblin> knome: so if "hobgoblin, ..... it should be "bug", not "critical", and thus the test should not fail" what would be critical?
[10:45] <hobgoblin> cos I would expect something that stops you installing to be critical - logically speaking
[10:45] <astraljava> hobgoblin: That's what we have to specify.
[10:45] <hobgoblin> ok :)
[10:45] <astraljava> hobgoblin: Depends.
[10:45] <astraljava> If we're talking about "being releasable", you wouldn't ship a product that's installable, but not usable, right?
[10:45] <knome> hobgoblin, well at least something that stops you from following the testcase; eg. if you are testing the "encrypted home", but can't encrypt home, the bug that prevents you to encrypt should be critical + fail the image
[10:46] <knome> yes, "pass" should mean "the image is installable and usable"
[10:46] <knome> but that doesn't mean the image can't have any bugs
[10:46] <knome> "fail" should be "the image is either not installable or not usable"
[10:46] <hobgoblin> ok - I understand that
[10:47] <astraljava> True. If we're thinking about hobgoblin's case, then I don't know if I'd again switch sides. We need to clarify which steps are required to work, and which are just bonus.
[10:47] <knome> astraljava, usb doesn't mount autmatically?
[10:47] <knome> astraljava, if you can mount manually, it's a pass. if not, it's a fail.
[10:47] <astraljava> If the case says to try USB sticks, and you can't browse them, then is it a fail or pass?
[10:48] <knome> see prev comment ^
[10:48] <knome> or was it about mounting by default
[10:48] <knome> or not being able to access at all generally
[10:48] <astraljava> Well what fun is it being able to mount, if you can't browse?
[10:49] <hobgoblin> knome: it was in dmesg - not in thunar - in fact none of the other partitions that I would see in thnar normally are there - didn't bother trying to manually mount it
[10:49] <knome> i suppose it boils down to "is the stick browseable on other systems" and "what's the filesystem"
[10:49] <knome> if it is browseable, and the fs is FAT, i'd say it might be a fail
[10:49] <astraljava> knome: Have fun trying to open that up in the testcase. :D
[10:49] <knome> if it's not browseable, or the filesystem is NTFS, i'd say that's a pass
[10:49] <knome> just use common sense.
[10:50] <astraljava> You're talking about plain users here. *smirk*
[10:50] <knome> i think there should be a way to mark "failed" tests "passed" by some "product admins" at a later stage
[10:50] <knome> and the other way too
[10:50] <knome> well that ^
[10:50] <astraljava> knome: No, we don't need that. The results don't have to be used by cold numbers.
[10:50] <knome> i understood there's going to be some "product admins" anyway
[10:51] <knome> or sth, ask stgraber :)
[10:51] <hobgoblin> I've got common sense - a usb that was used to install from should be bwoseable when you reboot after install in my opinion :)
[10:51] <astraljava> Okay, well, I wouldn't mind, but it's not a pre-requisite IMHO.
[10:51] <knome> the point was that there's going to be more granularity in the permissions
[10:51] <hobgoblin> as a plain user :)
[10:51] <astraljava> hobgoblin: I wasn't comparing you to a plain user. Sorry if that was confusing. :D
[10:51] <knome> astraljava, yes, agreed in "cold numbers"
[10:51] <hobgoblin> lol
[10:52] <knome> astraljava, but the -release list is getting those pass/fail percentages, so i'd rather get them right
[10:52] <astraljava> knome: I'd like that very much. (re: granularity)
[10:52] <astraljava> knome: Yeah ok, then it makes sense.
[10:52] <knome> astraljava, so to say, those are not just for us
[10:53] <astraljava> I have been a little out from the -release for this cycle. I'll try to do better.
[10:53] <knome> np :)
[10:53] <knome> i've been out too, and while i've been in, there hasn't been anything
[10:54] <knome> the things i refer to regarding QA tracker was discussed mostly last cycle with stgraber personally
[10:54] <ochosi> knome, pleia2: could one (or both) of you please proof-read my article on x.org?
[10:54] <knome> i can do later today
[10:55]  * astraljava was scolded for missing the deadlines for the emails, too
[10:55] <knome> astraljava, oh, oops. no, i didn't make changes to the Long document
[10:56] <knome> astraljava, but i remember most of it anyway
[10:56] <knome> astraljava, what should be left is not the big thing, the big thing is making it readable in addition
[10:56] <astraljava> Okay, maybe I recall that incorrectly anyway. But I thought we started going through that, did we not?
[10:56] <knome> yeah, we quickly did, but i didn't make any specific notes (except mental)
[10:57] <astraljava> I just remember saying I was too tired at one point, and that we ought to switch to NHL '11 at that point. :D
[10:57] <knome> yup!
[10:57] <astraljava> Right, so if you remember anything at all, could you throw a draft somewhere, and we could go through it with the princess as well?
[10:57] <ochosi> knome, pleia2: btw, i consciously decided against including something like a "changelog", i think pictures speak louder than words anyway
[10:58] <knome> i can do that later too :)
[10:58] <astraljava> Sweet! Thanks. :)
[11:18] <knome> ochosi, looks fine, though i'd probably change the last <p> to either remove the "(if you know how)" or quickly paste the command
[11:18] <knome> ochosi, also, it's lacking your "the writer is"...
[11:19] <ochosi> oh true, i forgot that we still add that manually
[11:19] <knome> yup :P
[11:21] <ochosi> i was also wondering whether i should try to structure the text more by formatting it
[11:21] <ochosi> i mean adding <em> etc
[11:22] <knome> if you want to emphasize some thing specifically, then maybe
[11:22] <ochosi> or i could add headers
[11:22] <knome> that works too
[11:25] <ochosi> knome: ok, updated
[11:32] <knome> astraljava, sent my notes about the long test to you and pleia2
[11:33] <knome> ochosi, make the "feedback" a separate <p> and <strong> it
[11:35]  * astraljava kisses knome on the mouth
[11:36] <knome> umm, eww
[11:36] <knome> :D
[11:38] <ochosi> knome: ok done. if you approve it, please press publish
[11:38] <hobgoblin> astraljava knome - if either of you are here = so is grub install failed - this is a fatal error - critical - not critical - and a fail regardless ?
[11:38] <ochosi> bbl
[11:39] <astraljava> hobgoblin: That's a sure-fire fail, and very critical indeed.
[11:40] <hobgoblin> ok - 'but' I did 'fiddle' with the install - did a entire disc install - but went to the partitioner and changed grub from sda to sdc - would that change your thinking?
[11:41] <hobgoblin> in my mind it's a fail still
[11:43] <astraljava> Hmm... well if you're sure the system _should_ be able to boot from that, then yes. Have you checked the BIOS boot section?
[11:43] <knome> ochosi, btw, it's *Quantal*
[11:44] <knome> ochosi, fixed that though.
[11:44] <knome> ochosi, and publsihed
[11:44] <knome> -typo
[11:44] <hobgoblin> oh I know that it would normally be ok astraljava
[11:45] <astraljava> Ok, yeah. You should mark the test as failed, and provide the bug report with grub messages attached (on the bug, not on the tracker).
[11:45] <hobgoblin> k
[11:46] <hobgoblin> where do you get grub messages from - never had an install fail on me before lol
[11:48] <astraljava> hobgoblin: So how exactly does it fail, then? I'm sorry, I assumed that it fails to boot after grub was installed on another partition/drive.
[11:48] <hobgoblin> hang on - just found the next bit lol
[11:49] <astraljava> Ugh... going through an image _bit by bit_ is much more hardcore I could ever imagine myself doing testing. *smirk*
[11:49] <hobgoblin> finished without installing grub - apport started mpw
[11:51] <hobgoblin> bah - it was my fail
[11:51] <hobgoblin> but at least I've seen an install fail now :)
[11:52] <astraljava> http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/fail-set-sail-for-fail1.jpg
[11:53] <hobgoblin> yep that works for me too :)(
[11:53] <astraljava> Love that pic.
[11:54] <hobgoblin> so in future - don't tell the installer to install grub to somewhere it is set to do something to - extreme confusion ensues :)
[11:54] <astraljava> Yep, even that description confuses the konfutse out of me.
[11:54] <hobgoblin> :)
[11:54] <hobgoblin> confused me - and I did it ...
[12:50] <hobgoblin> so if you've done a bunch of tests - and you have the same bugs - should you put them against each test you did ?
[15:44] <madnick> ochosi: got the environment all setup, going to bed now :)
[15:44] <madnick> Ill be up in 12h
[16:07] <ochosi> madnick: ok, ttyl then
[16:07] <ochosi> knome: thanks for correction and publication then
[17:05] <knome> ochosi, np
[17:05] <ochosi> pleia2: could you share today's post on x.org by me on g+? i mean i can do it via my own profile, but i think the "official" xubuntu channel would be better. if you do so, please change the last paragraph to "feedback is welcome _here_" instead of irc and ml :)
[17:06] <ochosi> knome: btw, currently i'm using the lower panel not as launcher, but as "dock", meaning i have my open windows there
[17:06] <knome> ochosi, aha
[17:06] <ochosi> knome: it's really nice, but otoh makes the top-panel almost useless ;)
[17:07] <knome> ochosi, i'm currently using a non-default, not-completely-conservative-layout too
[17:07] <pleia2> ochosi: yep
[17:07] <ochosi> reminds me of the days when xubuntu had the gnome2-panel setup
[17:07] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks a bunch!
[17:08] <ochosi> knome: what's your setup then?
[17:08] <knome> sec, upping a shot
[17:08] <knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/other/shot-panel-layout.png
[17:08] <knome> ochosi, both are 90% of the monitor width, non-hide
[17:08] <knome> ochosi, the top panel only has the window list
[17:09] <knome> ochosi, and the top panel expands automatically to 100% if needed (== if many windows open)
[17:09] <ochosi> mhm
[17:09] <ochosi> actually xfce4.10 panel has quite a few nice feats
[17:09] <knome> ochosi, and both the panels have separators at both ends, bringing some visual "breathing space"
[17:09] <ochosi> you should really pull latest greybird to tell me about the panel-style :)
[17:09] <knome> heh
[17:09] <ochosi> mhm, i noticed
[17:10] <knome> oh, you noticed the top panel right-hand separator? ;]
[17:10] <ochosi> but actually i'm so happy about the new panel style that on second thought maybe don't tell me about it :)
[17:10] <ochosi> hehe, yeah of course... :)
[17:10] <knome> heh, maybe i should
[17:10] <ochosi> anyway, off for dinner
[17:10] <ochosi> ttyl
[17:10] <knome> ba
[17:10] <knome> pleia2, hai
[17:10] <knome> pleia2, you prolly got my mail about the long testcase
[17:11] <pleia2> knome: yeah, I'll try to have a look at it tonight
[17:11] <knome> pleia2, yup, np; if you have questions though, feel free to ping
[17:12] <pleia2> thanks :)
[17:13] <knome> well, i have much more time for these kinds of things now
[17:13] <knome> as i put it to my friends;
[17:14] <knome> i, as the XPL, decide the direction of the project and about any new features/changes and janne, as the QA lead, makes sure the quality stays
[17:14] <knome> ;)
[17:14] <knome> (that's not the serious reason)
[17:15] <GridCube> knome: o/
[17:22] <knome> hey GridCube
[17:32] <GridCube> when can we meet to talk? not today
[17:33] <knome> i discussed this with ochosi today, we need to schedule soon
[17:34] <GridCube> good :)
[17:39] <ochosi> pleia2: one more thing, would you mind to change "GreyBird" to "Greybird"?
[17:40] <pleia2> ochosi: fixed, sorry :)
[17:40] <ochosi> pleia2: np, thanks again!:)
[17:41] <ochosi> pleia2: btw, i think i completely forgot about the xubuntu/ubuntu-women-stickers
[17:41] <pleia2> ochosi: yep you did!
[17:41] <ochosi> pleia2: i wanted to order some from you, if you still have some
[17:41] <pleia2> I think I'll do a personal blog post about giving them away
[17:41] <ochosi> sounds good
[17:41] <pleia2> yeah sure, just email me your address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:41] <ochosi> ok, email me back your account details so i can send you some retribution
[17:43] <ochosi> ok, sent


[06:41] <dg87> so is the next version coming out?
[06:41] <dg87> whne*
[06:41] <hateball> !xenial | dg87
[06:42] <dg87> umm its 21st right now
[06:45] <Unit193> So, later on today.
[06:49] <dg87> ETA?
[06:49] <Unit193> Just "when it's ready"
[06:50] <Laurenzo> :)
[08:57] <ChunkzZ1> hello.
[08:57] <ChunkzZ1> anyone know what time lubuntu 16.04 will be released and will it be release with lxqt?
[09:03] <Kiwikaki_> afaik 21:00 UTC. Nope, it comes with lxde. 16.10 will come with lxqt
[09:04] <ChunkzZ1> how long for 16.10?
[09:04] <Kiwikaki_> Oktober 2016. ;)
[09:04] <Kiwikaki_> october*
[09:05] <ChunkzZ1> oh, why not move to lxqt with 16.04?
[09:06] <Kiwikaki_> I don't know, sorry. I'm only a user, not a developer :)
[09:06] <Unit193> 1. LTS, so needs to be supported for a longer time.  2. LXQt is very new.
[09:07] <ChunkzZ1> the daily builds come with lxde, lxde is very old now.
[09:07] <ChunkzZ1> lxqt > future
[09:07] <Unit193> LXDE is mature and still activly maintained.  And sure, LXQt is the "future", which is not now. :P
[10:35] <phil42> the alternate install image has been released
[10:36] <phil42> the desktop install image has been released
[10:48] <phil42> release desktop is identical to 4-20.1 daily desktop
[10:49] <phil42> (amd64)
[11:15] <ikonia> phil42: please do not give out links until it has been released
[11:15] <phil42> link for lubuntu 16.04 desktop is  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/lubuntu-16.04-alternate-amd64.iso
[11:15] <phil42> it has been released
[11:15] <ikonia> phil42: why are you doing this
[11:16] <ikonia> it has not been released
[11:16] <phil42> it has been released
[11:16] <phil42> cdimage.ubuntu.com disagrees
[11:16] <ikonia> that is not a release
[11:16] <ikonia> that is the mirrors
[11:16] <phil42> says it is
[11:16] <ikonia> mirrors are still syncing - pointing people at them does not help
[11:16] <ikonia> that why you wait for a release announcment from the release-manager
[11:16] <ikonia> not you
[11:17] <ikonia> so PLEASE stop giving out links to people until the release has been officially announced
[11:21] <phil42> link for lubuntu 16.04 desktop is  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/lubuntu-16.04-alternate-amd64.iso
[11:22] <ikonia> !ops | phil42 banned from 3 channels for giving links out despite being asked multiple times not to
[11:23] <ikonia> phil42: no idea why you're doing this - the point is to help the community, not try to cause a problem
[11:23] <ikonia> you've been asked multiple times not to do this, and you've been banned from other channels for doing it, no idea why you want to do this
[11:24] <phil42> rebooting to install new lubuntu
[11:24] <ikonia> good for you
[12:54] <ChunkzZ1> ikonia, is it out yet?
[13:54] <noob> hi
[13:56] <noob> what should i use for a keyring on lubuntu
[13:57] <noob> ssh keyring
[13:57] <noob> and how do i inlock it on ligin
[13:57] <noob> unlock it
[13:58] <noob> please ping if you reply
[14:10] <krytarik> noob: Gnome Keyring is installed by default - you can use that.
[14:12] <noob> krytarik: thanks.  it does not have a gui?
[14:12] <krytarik> !info seahorse
[14:20] <krytarik> noob: Look above. :P
[14:22] <noob> ok, so seahorse can see my key, and asks for pass phrase and unlocks it, but wont import it
[14:22] <noob> krytarik:
[14:27] <krytarik> noob: Just drop both the private and the public key directly into '~/.ssh' - if the latter one is missing, Gnome Keyring won't handle it.
[14:28] <noob> oh?
[14:28] <krytarik> Yeah...
[14:29] <noob> i have a putty ppk, can i use that to get it imported?
[14:29] <noob> krytarik:
[14:29] <teward> noob: you have to convert the Putty PPK into an OpenSSH private key
[14:30] <noob> kk, googleing teward
[14:30] <teward> PPK is private proprietary, PuTTY only ;P
[14:31] <noob> http://superuser.com/questions/232362/how-to-convert-ppk-key-to-openssh-key-under-linux suggests it will convet to  openssh
[14:32] <teward> noob: that's a manual step you need to run :P
[14:33] <teward> Seahorse can't convert :P
[14:37] <noob> teward:  or krytarik  what does seahorse need.  i have the private and publick there but stil no import.  do they need a specific name or permissions?
[14:38] <teward> noob: I don't think you need to import it into the keyring, perhaps just drop it into ~/.ssh
[14:38] <teward> because I think that's where the ssh-agent picks up SSH keys from
[14:38] <noob> does it need a specific name or permissions set?
[14:38] <noob> and does it need both pup and private?
[14:39] <teward> it needs both
[14:39] <noob> and the name?
[14:39] <teward> private key can be named whatever, needs a `chmod 640` though on it
[14:39] <teward> public key has to match the private key filename, but with .pub appended
[14:39] <teward> chmod 644 on that i believe
[14:41] <noob> bah, pcmanfm can set numeric perms
[14:44] <noob> so how i see if this got picked up teward
[14:44] <noob> wow there it is
[14:45] <noob> wait a min
[14:45] <noob> it set it up to connect to this pc
[14:45] <noob> i need it to connect to another box
[14:45] <teward> noob: um, what?
[14:45] <teward> ;set it up to connect to this pc'?
[14:46] <teward> E:Nonsense
[14:46] <teward> noob: it's a key file - it doesn't define where it's used, or what connection it's used for
[14:46] <teward> you take the OpenSSH public key, put that into ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the "other box"
[14:46] <teward> for the user on that system you want to SSH into and login as
[14:46] <teward> from your system you're on NOW, `ssh user@remote-box-address` (replace the things accordingly!)
[14:47] <teward> SSH key auth will be attempted
[14:47] <noob> ok, so how do i connect to the remote box?
[14:47] <teward> and should "work"
[14:47] <teward> reading my messages would be a start then
[14:47] <teward> :P
[14:47] <noob> kk
[14:48] <noob> denied
[14:48] <noob> lol
[14:50] <teward> with what error?
[14:50] <teward> if any
[14:50] <noob> Permission denied (publickey). teward
[14:50] <teward> did you add the public key contents to the 'remote' box?
[14:50] <teward> and login with the correct user?
[14:50] <noob> yep.  it works with putty
[14:51] <noob> 9ol.8ik,
[14:51] <noob> bah
[15:02] <noob> krytarik: I got the key imported but i am getting permission denied
[15:02] <noob> Permission denied (publickey)
[15:13] <expa> Le puse Lubuntu 15.10 a un AMD Turion (tm)64 por defecto configuración de monitor 640x480 no la puedo cambiar con xrandr
[15:15] <krytarik> !es | expa
[15:15] <expa> Gracias
[15:43] <rkzzy> once ubuntu 16.04 is released, how long will it take to create lubuntu 16.04?
[15:44] <redwolf> rkzzy, they're usually "cooked" at the same time
[15:45] <rkzzy> ah, so once ubuntu 16.04 is released tomorrow, lubuntu 16.04 will be available too?
[15:45] <redwolf> yup :)
[15:45] <rkzzy> thanks
[15:45] <redwolf> you're welcome
[15:47] <redwolf> anyway, rkzzy, I don't know your timezone, but your "tomorrow" is my "today". Lubuntu is being released now, wait a few hours and you'll see the post everywhere
[16:33] <Dice-Man> hello i have lubuntu 15.10 it gaves me a bbswitch no vga devices found
[16:33] <Dice-Man> i cannot login
[16:33] <expa> Le puse Lubuntu 15.10 a un AMD Turion (tm)64 por defecto configuración de monitor 640x480 como modificarla
[16:34] <Dice-Man> at bootin
[16:34] <Dice-Man> how to solve that problem ?
[16:35] <Dice-Man> i have an nvidia graphic card
[16:35] <Dice-Man> i removed all nvidia drivers by sudo apt-get purge nvidia*
[16:37] <sruli> hi, is lubuntu 16.04 being released today?
[16:40] <ChunkzZ1> !isitoutyet
[16:40] <ChunkzZ1> lubuntu released?
[16:41] <expa> con escritorio LXDE y fce no se puede cambiar la configuración por defecto 640x480, no tiene nvidia
[16:44] <teward> ChunkzZ1: yes
[16:44] <teward> they all did at the same time for 16.04
[16:45] <ChunkzZ1> I don't see it?
[16:46] <teward> ChunkzZ1: it may not be up on the Lubuntu site yet
[16:46] <teward> but they're up and released - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/
[17:02] <noob> teward:  hey my friend
[17:03] <noob> my ssh is still broken
[17:09] <wxl> noob: what's your problem?
[17:09] <wxl> noob: also i wouldn't focus on one particular individual here and we're all often in and out
[18:08] <noob> wxl: ssh is not working
[18:09] <noob> putty is working
[18:09] <noob> I added the key to seahorse
[18:09] <noob> and it shows
[18:10] <noob> ssh-add -l does not show it
[18:11] <noob> so apparently open ssh and gnome keyring are fighting
[18:11] <noob> well so say the openssh guys
[18:14] <wxl> noob: so if i understand you correctly, the problem is with the key, not with ssh?
[18:23] <noob> wxl: nah, the key works in putty
[18:23] <noob> but it not work in a terminal ssh session
[18:23] <noob> and does not show as a valid key in ssh
[18:23] <noob> but does show in seahorse
[18:23] <wxl> that's because they use different key types, noob
[18:24] <noob> nah they key went into seahorse and shows there
[18:24] <noob> same finger print and stuff
[18:24] <wxl> irrelevant
[18:24] <wxl> but feel free to continue to poke at it if you like :)
[18:24] <noob> ok so what is relavant
[18:25] <noob> but putty converted the key to opens ssh
[18:26] <wxl> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2224066/how-to-convert-ssh-keypairs-generated-using-puttygenwindows-into-key-pairs-use
[18:26] <wxl> once you have that done for sure
[18:26] <wxl> if it still doesn't work, then pastebin ssh -v and we can figure it out
[18:26] <wxl> also this is not a lubuntu specific thing, so #ubuntu might offer you more people that can provide help
[18:44] <Kamilion> noob: are the permissions on ~/.ssh/
[18:46] <ChunkzZ1> so, lubuntu still using lxde?
[18:46] <Kamilion> yes
[18:47]  * ChunkzZ1 is a sad panda
[18:47] <wxl> ChunkzZ1: there's instructions on how to use lxqt in xenial
[18:47] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/oqMCe/1fd0eeda81.png
[18:47] <Kamilion> and lxqt works quite nicely
[18:47] <Kamilion> there's a screenshot :)
[18:48] <wxl> even on raspberry pi 2 :)
[18:48] <Kamilion> the only major bug I've seen so far is trying to resize the screen with vmware or virtualbox
[18:48] <Kamilion> the desktop background xwindow doesn't correctly resize
[18:48] <ChunkzZ1> I don't see the lubuntu 16.04?
[18:49] <wxl> just came out
[18:49] <wxl> http://lubuntu.me/xenial-released/
[18:49] <ChunkzZ1> link me please?
[18:49] <Kamilion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/
[18:49] <Kamilion> read the release notes if you have a system built in 2016, there may be some issues (re: intel skylake stuff)
[18:51] <Kamilion> wxl: is there an lxqt channel or is this it? (other than #lxde )
[18:52] <wxl> Kamilion: yeah, #lxde is the general lxqt channel. the #lxde on oftc is more lxde focused than lxqt.
[18:52] <Kamilion> darkxst got some wayland stuff punched in for ubuntu-gnome and I'd like to bang on lxqt
[18:52] <wxl> frankly i think they should set up #lxqt as main and have #lxde redirect but oh well
[18:52] <wxl> nice
[18:53] <Kamilion> btw, are the lxqt packages in core now? Do I still need the PPA?
[18:53] <Kamilion> i know the ppa's needed to get newer stuff, but AFAIK some of this landed in december to universe, right?
[18:53] <Kamilion> or is it just the themes and customization in the ppa, while the binaries are already in core?
[18:54] <wxl> they're in xenial
[18:54] <wxl> i gotta check on artwork
[18:54] <wxl> wait duh
[18:54] <wxl> of course it is
[18:54] <wxl> it's release day hahahahah XD
[18:55] <Kamilion> hence my questions, now that the release pocket's been published to *
[18:57] <ChunkzZ1> thanks, guys.
[18:58] <Kamilion> aye. If you've got any questions about 16.04, feel free to ask, ChunkzZ1
[18:58] <Kamilion> I've been running the xenial package series since november
[18:58] <Kamilion> bunch of packages got renamed, some went away, ETC
[18:59] <Kamilion> so if you're lookin' for something, speak up :D
[19:02] <ChunkzZ1> I do have 1 question, is it a lie about lubuntu 16.04 on a raspberry pi 2?
[19:02] <wxl> noppe that's for real
[19:05] <ChunkzZ1> nice! I am using my pi 2 right now with debian.
[19:18] <noob> wxl: as i said i already had putty convert them (pup and private) and added to seahorse
[19:19] <noob> and ssh v seem to be missing a thing?
[19:19] <noob> Kamilion:  permissions on ~/.ssh are 700
[19:40] <AriMartti> phew, tried to install lubuntu 16.04 to 5 different old machines, 2 success and 3 didn't boot. Those 3 did't even boot on live-mode although installer runs fine.
[19:40] <AriMartti> cannot specify the hardware but machines were old
[19:40] <AriMartti> 1386 image in use
[19:40] <AriMartti> i386*
[19:41] <AriMartti> pressed F6 during boot menu and erased "quiet splash" and notided that "GPU cannot be detected, Light Desktop Manager cannot start"
[19:52] <Kamilion> AriMartti: sec
[19:53] <Kamilion> AriMartti: do you know how to read the output of lspci?
[19:53] <AriMartti> cannot do that
[19:53] <AriMartti> computers are 35 km away from me
[19:53] <Kamilion> ah, you've changed locations since the test?
[19:53] <AriMartti> yes
[19:53] <Kamilion> roger.
[19:54] <Kamilion> When you have a chance, lspci or lshw them -- I know a couple xorg drivers may have been dropped like ati mach64
[19:54] <AriMartti> Kamilion: maybe tomorrow I can pastebin lspci -v for you :)
[19:54] <Kamilion> don't need the pastebin, just the GPU's common-name
[19:55] <Kamilion> hence why I asked you if you could read it's output ;)
[19:56] <Kamilion> it turns out a lot of servers happen to have 'old' GPUs
[19:56] <AriMartti> ok
[19:56] <AriMartti> thowe were old fujitsu-siemens desktops
[20:02] <Kamilion> AriMartti: got an average age for me?
[20:02] <Kamilion> post 2005? post 2010?
[20:03] <AriMartti> RAM about 1 to 2 GB, so maybe 2008
[20:03] <Kamilion> alright, so not terrifyingly old
[20:03] <Kamilion> post-pentium4 space heaters, at least
[20:03] <AriMartti> sata disks and so on :)
[20:03] <Kamilion> sounds like intel core or core2
[20:04] <Kamilion> llwalahoop: plymouth theme controls bootup
[20:05] <Kamilion> and I'm not sure what deals with the lightdm greeter theme offhand
[20:56] <craysiii> i'm probably not the first to ask this but does anyone know when lubuntu 16.04 will release?
[21:00] <craysiii> nevermind i guess lubuntu.net hasn't been updated but lubuntu.me has
[21:01] <Kamilion> craysiii: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/
[21:01] <Kamilion> been available since yesterday.
[21:01] <Kamilion> lubuntu seems to have been first in the build queues and least in 'broken stuff' during release
[21:02] <Kamilion> I think ubuntu-mate had one final respin at the end, so they were a few hours later than the rest of the images
[21:05] <xet7> Is NVidia driver support fixed in Lubuntu 16.04 LTS for PowerPC, for Mac PowerBook G4 ?
[21:09] <noob> i need help getting ssh working
[21:09] <noob> I tried in ubuntu but there topic says use your distros channel
[22:39] <solounchico> hi
[22:40] <solounchico> anyone can sugest me how to make a lubuntu usb permanent system?
[22:58] <Kamilion> solounchico: sure
[22:58] <Kamilion> oh, nevermind, they left
[23:12] <J0hnD03ii> I done the minimal installtion from the ubuntu network installer, it's all installed but no network manager for wifi or ethernet?
[23:14] <liquidsnake_> i had the same problem
[23:14] <J0hnD03ii> liquidsnake_, how did you fix it?
[23:14] <liquidsnake_> so i switched to linux mint
[23:14] <liquidsnake_> i didn't i just switched to a different distro
[23:15] <J0hnD03ii> yeah I wanna use 16.04 :(
[23:15] <liquidsnake_> do you have older hardware you're trying to install this distro on?
[23:15] <J0hnD03ii> a 2012 asus x501u laptop
[23:15] <liquidsnake_> might wanna try xubuntu. its lightweight too
[23:16] <liquidsnake_> what are the specs of your laptop?
[23:16] <liquidsnake_> is it a dual core with at least 2gb of ram?
[23:16] <J0hnD03ii> 1ghz 2gb ram 120gb ssd
[23:16] <liquidsnake_> is that a dual core or single core?
[23:17] <J0hnD03ii> dual
[23:18] <liquidsnake_> yeah try xubuntu instead. i mean i know u want to run lubuntu but for some reason on some machines it has that problem with the network connection
[23:18] <liquidsnake_> i haven't found a workaround for it
[23:18] <liquidsnake_> so i just switched distros
[23:19] <liquidsnake_> so try linux mint xfce or xubuntu
[23:20] <liquidsnake_> only other thing i can suggest is search the net for a solution
[23:22] <liquidsnake_> J0hnD03ii: you still there?  I checked!
[23:27] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: you also may want to check if the networking hardware is picked up. use lsusb or lspci as needed
[23:28] <n-iCe> uhm where is the iso
[23:28] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: networking should start on boot. perhaps that failed. do `ps aux | grep -i net` to see iuf you see any relevant processes
[23:28] <wxl> n-iCe: you can find it on lubuntu.me (among other places)
[23:28] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, I just restarted the install
[23:29] <n-iCe> weird
[23:29] <n-iCe> why not in lubuntu.net
[23:29] <n-iCe> is not the official site
[23:29] <wxl> that's a longer story :/
[23:29] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, can you help about my brightness keys?
[23:29] <n-iCe> o.O
[23:29] <wxl> you'll notice all the links on the wiki point to lubuntu.me being our website
[23:29] <n-iCe> wow tht's new for me
[23:30] <wxl> it's a relatively new change
[23:30] <n-iCe> 16.04 downlaoding
[23:30] <n-iCe> oh ok
[23:30] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, ?
[23:30] <wxl> the short story is that lubuntu.net is run by the guy who originally started the project and who is NOT active in its development anymore and is hard to get a hold of. we had neverending problems with it lagging behind reality. so we just decided to do our own thing. :)
[23:30] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: possibly maybe. :)
[23:31] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, to change my brightness, I have to add acpi_osi=Linux to my grub, nothing else works -.-
[23:31] <J0hnD03ii> acpi_osi=*
[23:31] <J0hnD03ii> sorry, typo
[23:31] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: does that allow the brightness keys to work or what exactly does it do?
[23:32] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, it allows me to change the brightness with my fn keys
[23:32] <J0hnD03ii> if I don't add that to grub, my brightness won't turn down/up
[23:33] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: ah, so that's probably not something that's going to change. ubuntu (and debian upstream) has given defaults for grub and none are likely to include that. BUT you can make that a default grub option.
[23:33] <ianorlin> aren't there other ways to change brightness than fn keys like the power manager applet and the lubuntu shortcut
[23:33] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, yeah but I gotta figure out how to change the brightness and turn down the fan :/
[23:33] <J0hnD03ii> the brightness is the easy part
[23:34] <J0hnD03ii> the fan :/ idk
[23:34] <J0hnD03ii> acpi_osi= < brightness works with that
[23:34] <J0hnD03ii> but my fan is still fully loaded
[23:34] <J0hnD03ii> im gonna cry lol
[23:34] <wxl> there's ways
[23:34] <wxl> i gotta remember what they are :)
[23:35] <J0hnD03ii> you're a dev, right?
[23:35] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: https://askubuntu.com/questions/22108/how-to-control-fan-speed
[23:35] <wxl> i do a little bit of everything but don't contribute code for the majority of my contributions
[23:36] <ianorlin> I am not expirenced with the fan noise stuff although if you expirence high load it might need that much fanspeed for cooling if you are running something really that heavy
[23:36] <wxl> it would be good to check the cpu temps and see if they are requiring the cooling
[23:36] <wxl> if not it may be a general power management issue
[23:36] <ianorlin> yes and the panel has an applet for that
[23:37] <wxl> ianorlin: he needs an installed system with networking first. :) he says when he installed the first time (doing it again), he had no wifi OR ethernet. that latter bit seemed oddd to me
[23:37] <ianorlin> yes no ethernet does seem quite odd
[23:38] <J0hnD03ii> ianorlin, nothing heavy, just the fan is always on. liquidsnake_ had the network problem too
[23:38] <J0hnD03ii> even just sitting idle, fan is full.
[23:38] <wxl> probably pmgmt then
[23:38] <J0hnD03ii> pmgmt?
[23:39] <wxl> power management
[23:39] <J0hnD03ii> oh XD
[23:39] <wxl> it's likely turning on the fans because it's sensing something that's not actual there
[23:39] <J0hnD03ii> the fan never goes off
[23:45] <liquidsnake_> well guess your problem goes unsolved J0hnD03ii
[23:46] <wxl> liquidsnake_: not so. just waiting for him to get an installed system up so we can figure it out.
[23:46] <liquidsnake_> oh ok
[23:46] <wxl> liquidsnake_: since your problem is "solved," is there something else we can do for you?
[23:47] <liquidsnake_> well i never could get the network connection to work either in lubuntu
[23:47] <liquidsnake_> i was wondering why is that?
[23:47] <wxl> and is that something then, that you want to fix?
[23:47] <liquidsnake_> yes
[23:47] <J0hnD03ii> lubuntu = epic
[23:47] <wxl> liquidsnake_: sooooo do you have an installed system to work with?
[23:47] <J0hnD03ii> liquidsnake_, what changes are there for 16.04? because it seems a lot quicker
[23:48] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, ^ my bad
[23:48] <wxl> there's a lot of little things
[23:48] <liquidsnake_> i'm on linux mint right now though cuz i just switched to a different distro due to the network issue
[23:48] <wxl> liquidsnake_: well, if you want to switch back, maybe we could help you figure that out.
[23:48] <liquidsnake_> i have no way to get on if i install lubuntu again
[23:48] <wxl> usually when my car breaks down, i don't switch to another car in order to fix the problem XD
[23:49] <J0hnD03ii> 00:48 and I gotta be up at 6am. :/
[23:49] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: we'll still be here when it's convenient for you
[23:49] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, great saying :D
[23:49] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, yeah, im not tired, yet
[23:49] <J0hnD03ii> lol
[23:49] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: ok, we'll keep hammering at it until you give up then :)
[23:50] <liquidsnake_> well ok then tc everyone have a good one. hope you get your problems resolved J0hnD03ii
[23:50] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: if you want some reading material, btw, http://lubuntu.me/xenial-released/
[23:55] <J0hnD03ii> wxl, I found this http://itsfoss.com/fix-brightness-ubuntu-1310/http://itsfoss.com/fix-brightness-ubuntu-1310/
[23:55] <J0hnD03ii> but it doesn't say what to do with amd -.-
[23:56] <wxl> J0hnD03ii: get your installed system up and we'll go from there
[23:56] <J0hnD03ii> 25% left :)


[04:03] <pleia2> bkerensa: congrats on the bug finding ;)
[04:03] <pleia2> akgraner: still around this evening? I can write the dozen or so summaries left and release, but I'd rather not do that all myself editorial-wise
[04:13] <bkerensa> pleia2: You work too hard
[04:13] <bkerensa> :P
[04:14] <pleia2> I played all day :)
[04:18] <bkerensa> pleia2: I see the zoo photos nice... I added two more summaries and will *try* to pop back in in about 10 mins and do more if my fiancee allows me
[04:18] <bkerensa> :D
[04:20] <pleia2> thank you :)
[04:21] <pleia2> and the zoo was awesome!
[04:21] <pleia2> sf zoo doesn't have elephants
[04:30] <pleia2> I wrote the last launchpad summary we needed and am working my way up from the bottom
[04:46] <pleia2> just two more left, I'm going to start moving stuff over if someone has time to jump in before I finish that'd be great :)
[04:57]  * pleia2 finishes up
[04:58]  * Unit193 finds 3 more things to add.
[04:58] <pleia2> :P
[04:58] <Unit193> Couldn't help it. I thought in joke about having a "Bad headlines". "Poor articles" or something like that section. :P
[05:00] <pleia2> Unit193: can you help me with editorial review? :)
[05:00] <pleia2> (this is what you get for talking)
[05:01] <pleia2> just read through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue253 and point out glaring errors
[05:01] <Unit193> Yeah.... Figured I'd get flack for talking out of line.
[05:01] <Unit193> Date.
[05:02] <pleia2> doesn't matter what you said ;)
[05:02] <pleia2> the date is correct
[05:02] <pleia2> we cover news on those dates, release date is different
[05:03]  * pleia2 didn't write 2011 this time \o/
[05:03] <Unit193> Deadlink https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompizConfig
[05:04] <Unit193> Or, right, sorry.
[05:04] <pleia2> it's just CamelCase, fixing...
[05:05] <pleia2> oops, dev meetings are all squished together
[05:05] <pleia2> ok, I think I got all the camels
[05:06] <pleia2> (I saw camels today! http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6912344111)
[05:08] <Unit193> Weird to have links directly next to each other as in Cprofitt
[05:09] <pleia2> thanks, fixed
[05:09] <pleia2> launchpad had that issue too, fixed
[05:09] <pleia2> needed an extra newline so they weren't squished together
[05:11] <Unit193> "shortlist"?
[05:12] <pleia2> should it be "short list"?
[05:12] <pleia2> yeah
[05:14] <Unit193> And there is no summery for "Shuttleworth remixes Ubuntu... for biz users"
[05:14] <pleia2> oh yeah, I wanted to delete that one
[05:14] <pleia2> (duplicate subject matter)
[05:15] <Unit193> One below that too, link.
[05:15] <pleia2> hm, which?
[05:15] <pleia2> maybe refresh, I added the summary for top distros last
[05:16] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinuxQuestions
[05:16] <pleia2> yeah, I fixed that camel case too
[05:16] <Unit193> (It had been refreshing for the last minute or so, tried again)
[05:16] <pleia2> ah, broken thing
[05:17] <Unit193> "Chris7mas"? Heh.
[05:18] <Unit193> (I did note that it's right)
[05:18] <pleia2> heh, yeah
[05:18] <pleia2> I made a 10 second effort to find out if they had a real name in their profile ;)
[05:18] <pleia2> nope. using nym
[05:19] <Unit193> "Other Articles of Interest" Another link.
[05:19] <pleia2> ah, good catch
[05:21] <Unit193> "See here for the team report for June 2011"
[05:21] <pleia2> aha!
[05:22] <pleia2> I should fix that in the template to say MONTH YEAR so it's not so sneaky
[05:22] <Unit193> Wouldn't it be better to put the calendar directly to the link?
[05:22] <Unit193> "...calendars at fridge.ubuntu.com: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/" can be kinda funny. :P
[05:22] <Unit193> But your choice.
[05:23] <pleia2> probably, but I'll let it go this time
[05:24] <Unit193> Just pointing at what I see. Done.
[05:24] <pleia2> thank you!
[05:25] <Unit193> Sure, but I thought you knew better then to pick me. ;)
[05:27] <pleia2> you were was very helpful, I wouldn't have been able to release tonight without a reviewer :)
[05:27] <Unit193> Well, glad I could help a little!
[05:54] <pleia2> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue253
[05:54] <Unit193> \o/
[05:54] <Unit193> Already read it though.
[05:57] <pleia2> hehe
[05:57] <pleia2> I do miss reading UWN
[07:53] <dholbach> good morning
[07:54] <Unit193> You didn't do the cloak cycle! :D
[08:47] <bkerensa> heh
[08:47] <bkerensa> pleia2: Looks like it is time to update this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin
[08:47] <bkerensa> :D
[08:47]  * bkerensa puts it on a to do list
[16:35] <akgraner> Thanks everyone - all plans to help last night shot to heck with a kid and then work issue.../me is sorry
[16:52] <Unit193> akgraner: Hope it went well, and it's ok, she grabbed me.
[16:53] <akgraner> Thank you!
[16:54] <Unit193> Yeppers, wasn't the harder part either.
[17:07] <pleia2> bkerensa: a lot of the /community pages need updating :( you can check out their tagging system to mark a page as outdated or whatever and in need of review: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[17:07] <Unit193> Aye, *quite* a few are outdated.
[17:09] <pleia2> hm, I guess they don't have an "update content" tag
[17:10] <pleia2> so I'm thinking we may need to reduce the number of summaries we do
[17:10] <pleia2> in UWN
[17:10] <akgraner> +1 pleia2
[17:11] <akgraner> we used to have a "rule" a couple years ago about summaries - no more than 6 in GCN and keep the other sections to 4 or less
[17:11] <akgraner> the only exception was planet - and then we always tried to see if they could fit into other sections
[17:11] <pleia2> articles, or summaries?
[17:12] <akgraner> summaries
[17:12] <pleia2> so would other articles just have title and link?
[17:12] <akgraner> yep
[17:12] <pleia2> ok, I think we should see about going down that path then
[17:13] <akgraner> and that's where we put all the extra stuff we wanted to include but made UWN too big
[17:13] <pleia2> we have a lot of people who have signed up for writing summaries but only a fraction participate and even they can usually only do 1 or 2 each
[17:13] <akgraner> when we had 2 or 3 people per section who were reliable it was easy not not so easy
[17:13] <pleia2> it's not sustainable, I'm getting tired
[17:13] <akgraner> pleia2, I understand
[17:14] <akgraner> s/not/now
[17:15] <akgraner> so basically we'd dump all the articles we liked in then cull them (which is why we had the clause about understanding that your summary may not be included) line
[17:15]  * pleia2 nods
[17:15] <Unit193> pleia2: At least I'm living up to my commitments, no? ;)
[17:16] <akgraner> pleia2, +1  on the size decreasing.  I'll see what I can do on Fridays, b/c weekends and Mondays are crazy for me...
[17:19] <pleia2> Unit193: careful, I might start having expectations!
[17:35] <akgraner> :-)
[17:36] <Unit193> ...Expectations? How bad...
[17:37] <akgraner> muahahaha
[23:11] <bkerensa> akgraner: Thanks for the Kernel Team responses :)
[23:11] <akgraner> bkerensa, you're welcome


[00:00] <hokka> i agree current approach of wrapping cli lxc commands is a bit ugly. but I thought lxc can take care of all these issues already
[00:00] <hokka> i mean autorestart, firewall, network rules -- libvirt offers all this stuff for lxc containers, no?
[00:00] <imbrandon> lxc is a hack, it should die in a fire
[00:18] <hokka> lxc technology appears to mature slowly, it is not that bad. also, now if one wants to install openstack with juju there are only two options I'm aware of: maas which requires 10(!) physical hosts to deploy because it will deploy each service on a separate physical hosts which appears to be ridiculous to me. the second option is lxc. it lets deploy several openstack services on one host, which is nice I think.
[00:20] <imbrandon> it is that bad, if you want a seperate them use real virtualization that already does all this for you, esx , vbox , to name a few, not a bsd jail on crack thats hacked to do some of the same things
[00:20] <imbrandon> and there is dev stack
[00:21] <imbrandon> as well as many real virtualization products
[00:21] <hokka> note that I was talking about using juju to bootstrap openstack
[00:21] <hokka> do you suggest to deploy openstack components in vbox?
[00:22] <imbrandon> i dont sugest anything other than lxc is a hack that needs to die in a fire, it may have its uses but for our usecase there are already things mature that dont require re-coding to do something they were never intended to do
[00:23] <hokka> J
[00:24] <lifeless> how do you interrogate a specific relation from a charm hook?
[00:24] <lifeless> (I want to see if the zk relation is setup in opentsdb in the start hook)
[00:24] <imbrandon> relation-get ?
[00:25] <lifeless> so, in the zookeeper-relation-changed hook, I do zk_host=`relation-get private-address`
[00:25] <imbrandon> yup
[00:25] <lifeless> but that is missing the context in the start hook.
[00:25] <hokka> lifeless, imbrandon: thanks for the feedback
[00:25] <lifeless> isn't it? Or am I misunderstanding teh whole thing
[00:26] <imbrandon> right, you only have access to it in the relation* hooks
[00:26] <lifeless> so thats my quesiton
[00:26] <lifeless> imbrandon: btw you were a bit harsh on hokka :(
[00:26] <imbrandon> ahh as far as i konw you dont
[00:26] <imbrandon> or cant
[00:26] <imbrandon> sorry :(
[00:27] <lifeless> SpamapS: ^ your review, how can I do this thing?
[00:28] <imbrandon> lifeless: yea it just pains me everytime someone tries to use lxc, we put it as something its not and get their expectations high
[00:28] <imbrandon> but yes i probably was, we just need a real local provider like you said
[00:28] <lifeless> imbrandon: sure, problem I saw was that hokka was trying to solve a problem, and while you're accurate, it didn't help them.
[00:28] <lifeless> sorry, overlapped with you there. enough said.
[00:28] <imbrandon> :)
[00:30] <imbrandon> but yea as far as the relation stuff , i dont think there is a way iirc, other than some questionable measures
[00:30] <imbrandon> like using the juju charm from the cli of a hook
[00:30] <imbrandon> or similar
[00:51] <imbrandon> SpamapS lifeless hazmat : mmmm i wish there was an interactive shell that simulated a charm env where i could fire hooks in the corect context at will
[00:52] <imbrandon> that would make creating new charms so much easier
[00:52] <imbrandon> know if there is a way i could simulate that now  that i'm overlooking ?
[00:53]  * imbrandon is finishing nginx today
[00:53] <lifeless> is software ever finished ?
[00:53] <imbrandon> heh true, i feel its not, just like websites, your never "done"
[00:54] <imbrandon> lifeless: ok let me rephrase , puttin nginx in a state that others can make use of , hopefully :)
[00:54] <imbrandon> :)
[00:54] <lifeless> \o/
[00:54] <lifeless> of course, have to ask why that matters, nginx after all (/wink)
[00:55] <imbrandon> heh
[00:55] <lifeless> I wish they would choose less disruptive defaults
[00:55] <lifeless> I keep having to support folk who get bitten by their Vary/compression defaults.
[00:55] <imbrandon> i'm trying out some intresting common lib approach , take a peek
[00:55] <imbrandon> yea
[00:55] <imbrandon> i reset those right off
[00:56] <imbrandon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/charms/precise/nginx/trunk/files
[00:57] <imbrandon> about to dump the default configs in /templates and use preg_repalce on ##place-holder-values##
[00:57] <imbrandon> is my next step
[01:07] <imbrandon> lifeless: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/charms/precise/nginx/trunk/view/head:/templates/nginx.conf
[01:07] <imbrandon> thats what i use as the base, seems to work well
[01:10] <lifeless> do you export the log data as relations ?
[01:10] <imbrandon> not yet, but i had considered it
[01:10] <imbrandon> for like loggy or something to be used
[01:11] <imbrandon> i'm just now adding in the shared mount stuff
[01:12] <imbrandon> for nfs, before it did not have that, actually this was all one large charm before, trying to find the break points into smaller charms is the key
[01:12] <imbrandon> as in juju deploy website , and the one charm did EVERYTHING, thus breaking it out into nginx , website, database , logs , mount etc etc
[01:16] <imbrandon> actually, i just realized something ... /me goes to shuffle a little code ...
[01:18] <lifeless> imbrandon: right
[01:18] <lifeless> I'm poking at logstash atm
[02:23] <hazmat> lifeless, nice, think there is an extant attempt at it, but its not very good.. http://jujucharms.com/search?search_text=logstash
[02:23] <lifeless> yup
[02:26] <lifeless> (thanks - I did already know but I appreciate the hint anyhow)
[02:27] <imbrandon> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[02:27] <imbrandon> heh working state now
[02:28] <imbrandon> few more cleanups and it will be ready for review i think
[02:28] <imbrandon> actually might be now /me looks
[02:29] <imbrandon> hrm nope, one more thing
[02:30] <lifeless> hazmat: do you have any idea on the relation-get thing ?
[02:31]  * hazmat scrolls back
[02:31] <lifeless> hazmat: in my start hook, I need to check that a specific relation exists.
[02:32] <hazmat> lifeless, relation-ids
[02:32] <hazmat> lifeless, allows you to check for instances of a relation given a relation name
[02:32] <lifeless> (and then pull out the data from it)
[02:32] <hazmat> which can then be passed to relation-get/relation-set/list
[02:33] <hazmat> it was mainly meant for upgrade contexts, but its useable in any non relation hook context
[02:33] <hazmat> imbrandon, lxc is a not hack
[02:33] <lifeless> hazmat: so, if [ -n "`relation-ids zookeeper`" ] ... ?
[02:33] <hazmat> although the juju implementation of local provider could perhaps use that moniker
[02:34] <imbrandon> for what we;re using it for it is, its not a true virtualization container
[02:34] <lifeless> hazmat: lxc is -very- hairy at the moment. Even with all the work we're putting into it.
[02:34]  * hazmat remembers the beatles
[02:34] <hazmat> its getting better all the time ;-)
[02:34] <imbrandon> hehehe
[02:35] <hazmat> lifeless, very hairy? its not root secure, what in particular is hairy?
[02:35]  * hazmat checks rel-id syntax
[02:35] <imbrandon> i still think that a true xen/vbox/umode container would be better
[02:35] <lifeless> hazmat: it depends on the entire kernel being properly namespaced, we've had a raft of bugs where that isn't the case.
[02:35] <lifeless> hazmat: e.g. powering off the machine from within lxc
[02:35] <lifeless> hazmat: attempting to insmoding 32-bit modules into a 64-bit kernel from within a container.
[02:35] <hazmat> lifeless, indeed, but some of those are mitigated with app armor
[02:36] <lifeless> hazmat: yes, but think structurally.
[02:36] <hazmat> lifeless, yes.. there's a lot of surface area there
[02:36] <hazmat> and there many things not properly namespace'd
[02:36] <lifeless> hazmat: the dependency stack for lxc to be secure in and off itself, is huge. And *known* (not speculated) to have un-upgraded non-namespace aware code.
[02:36] <hazmat> but it has been done correctly
[02:36] <hazmat> with openvz
[02:37] <lifeless> has anyone written a json api presenting ec2-like semantics (just enough for juju in particular) for either libvirt or lxc itself ?
[02:37] <hazmat> lifeless, sure.. they call it openstack
[02:38] <hazmat> lifeless, i think that's code looking for a problem to solve..
[02:38] <hazmat> it may be conceptually nice
[02:38] <hazmat> but its overkill imo
[02:38] <hazmat> we do need to refactor the lxc provider
[02:38] <hazmat> but thats mostly to just drop libvirt
[02:38] <hazmat> since lxc in precise does network
[02:38] <hazmat> and to switch to lxc ubuntu cloud img
[02:38] <lifeless> hazmat: it would provide an avenue to have smaller code base.
[02:38] <hazmat> so we can init with cloud-init the same as other setups
[02:39] <hazmat> lifeless, perhaps.. i'm not so sure
[02:39] <lifeless> which is a good thing; would let the local provider just be an api consumer, the hairy stuff could then reuse bits of openstack, or standalone, as appropriate.
[02:39] <hazmat> lifeless, getting to cloud-init and the code is already minimal
[02:39] <hazmat> lifeless, and much less software into the upstream stack
[02:39] <lifeless> hazmat: I suspect there are a large raft of optimisations you're not well placed to make at the moment.
[02:39] <hazmat> lifeless, wrt to lxc?
[02:40] <lifeless> hazmat: such as layered fs's on top of the base image
[02:40]  * hazmat nods
[02:40] <lifeless> which a local provider daemon could take care of more easily.
[02:40] <hazmat> btrfs snapshots would be butter :-)
[02:40] <lifeless> (which btw would shrink the footprint substantially for whatever is in the 'image')
[02:40] <lifeless> hazmat: uhhg, inappropriate ;)
[02:40] <hazmat> well not for code, but operationally it would be much nicer
[02:41] <hazmat> that's one of my concerns about moving to lxc everywhere
[02:41] <hazmat> if we have to wait for machine bootstrap and then download an lxc image all over again
[02:41] <hazmat> it would be nicer if we could use the root fs a base in a stable secure fashion
[02:42] <lifeless> right, which you can, if you get intimate with lxc
[02:42] <lifeless> which makes juju less portable
[02:42] <lifeless> -> break the dependency, provide a crisp clear boundary, and let folk like imbrandon write local ones for their OS.
[02:42] <hazmat> lifeless, at the moment i don't really regard local provider as portable anyways..
[02:42] <lifeless> and the stuff on the other side of the boundary can get as awful as needed.
[02:42] <hazmat> much less juju
[02:43] <hazmat> definitely we want to target the latter towards some notion of portability, but how that stretches is still up in the air
[02:43] <lifeless> sure; my main point is to separate the concerns.
[02:43] <lifeless> When you describe juju, adding 'and it knows how to xyz local containers' in doesn't fit with the main thrust.
[02:45] <hazmat> lifeless, if its using cloud init for containers, then the api wrapper around lxc is going to be about the same as an api wrapper around some other provider that's facilitating the same, at least till it goes deep on features, in which case yeah.. it would be nicer to have it external
[02:46] <lifeless> exactly.
[02:46] <hazmat> lifeless, my concern on the latter is how close it may be getting to something like openstack, ie what's the scope limitation on that
[02:46] <lifeless> the difference between 'this is how you call lxc command line' and 'this is an API you can use', is that an API you can use can be used from within a container.
[02:46] <lifeless> which solves your zookeeper-outside issue
[02:46] <lifeless> its similar to openstack in the same way MAAS is similar to openstack.
[02:46] <hazmat> lifeless, that's not really an issue re outside zk
[02:47] <hazmat> lifeless, that was by gustavo's choice..
[02:47] <hazmat> originally lxc for juju was modeled as machines instead of units
[02:47] <hazmat> er. implemented as a contributed patch by SpamapS
[02:47] <lifeless> yes
[02:48] <lifeless> I spent some time tweaking it
[02:48] <lifeless> anyhow
[02:48] <lifeless> we could go around this indefinitely.
[02:49] <lifeless> I appreciate there are some choices in here; some of them make less sense to me than others, and there isn't sufficient explanation for me to be able to agree or disagree with the /why/.
[02:49] <hazmat> lifeless, if the api is around i'd be game for incorporating, but its not something we can do ourselves given priorities atm
[02:49] <lifeless> Sure, never suggested you should :)
[02:49] <lifeless> I figured the channel might know if someone somewhere had done one.
[02:50] <lifeless> hazmat: what makes me sad right now is the ip using patch was rejected.
[02:50] <lifeless> So, I'm running a fork, and probably will be forever.
[02:50] <hazmat> lifeless, well...
[02:50] <hazmat> lifeless, openstack native provider would work just as well
[02:50] <lifeless> hazmat: it uses ip addresses
[02:51] <lifeless> exactly as I proposed.
[02:51] <hazmat> lifeless, exactly..
[02:51] <lifeless> just a different provider.
[02:51] <lifeless> So I don't understand why its acceptable in one provider and not another.
[02:52] <hazmat> lifeless, because in the ec2  case,  the most common use is public, and public addresses there are...
[02:52] <hazmat> i dunno.. you'd already convinced me ;-)
[02:53] <lifeless> yah
[02:53] <hazmat> bedtime for me, one more merge to do
[02:55] <imbrandon> gnight hazmat ( when ya head out )
[04:10] <imbrandon> ok headed to sleep
[04:10] <imbrandon> SpamapS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/994699
[04:10] <_mup_> Bug #994699: Charm Needed: Nginx <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/994699 >
[04:11] <imbrandon> its in a functioning state, would LOVE some input / patches / code snipits / review / etc etc, i think its ready for more than me to work on now, basics are laid
[04:11]  * imbrandon heads to sleep
[04:12] <imbrandon> ( note: I want to make setting the values for template:relace more elegant but i need fresh eyes in the morning maybe )
[04:13] <imbrandon> template::replace*
[05:02] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I'll take a gander
[05:24] <SpamapS> lifeless: btw, imbrandon told you wrong. You can access any relation-* command from any other hook. You want the relation-ids command.
[05:25] <SpamapS> lifeless: if you are not in a *-relation-* hook, you need to be more explicit is all
[05:25] <lifeless> SpamapS: thanks, hazmat set me in the right direction, though I haven't dug around yet to figure it all out
[05:25] <SpamapS> ok good
[05:25] <SpamapS> I skimmed the backscroll but missed that bit I guess
[05:25] <lifeless> seems a shame I can't just say relation-get relation=zookeeper
[05:25] <lifeless> 14:31 < lifeless> hazmat: in my start hook, I need to check that a specific relation exists.
[05:25] <lifeless> 14:32 < hazmat> lifeless, relation-ids
[05:25] <SpamapS> the problem is zookeeper might have more than one thing related to it
[05:25] <lifeless> etc
[05:26] <lifeless> SpamapS: from within the context of a hook on opentsdb ?
[05:26] <lifeless> SpamapS: how is that different to being within the context of the zookeeper-changed hook of opentsdb ?
[05:26] <SpamapS> yeah, you might say 'add-relation opentsdb zk1' and 'add-relation opentsdb zk2' ..
[05:27] <SpamapS> lifeless: whether thats valid or a good idea is not for juju to say. but in many cases (mysql db relation) its totally valid
[05:28] <SpamapS> lifeless: when you're in a *-relation-* hook, the relation ID is implied, you have a $JUJU_RELATION_ID even.
[05:28] <lifeless> mmm
[05:28] <SpamapS> lifeless: but if you're in any other context, you need to figure out what relation id you want to inform/inspect
[05:28] <lifeless> so this needs to be written up somewhere
[05:29] <lifeless> its really hard to discover let alone work with
[05:29] <SpamapS> yeah it only landed in early April
[05:29] <SpamapS> its used in several charms already but needs to be an explicit chapter in the docs IMO
[05:29] <lifeless> what would be most awesome would be for someone to figure out the tasks charm writers need to accomplish, and make that really easy.
[05:29] <SpamapS> like "Advanced Relations"
[05:30] <lifeless> well, pretty much every charm I can think of needs a start that starts if the relation is already there, apparently.
[05:30] <SpamapS> hm good point
[05:31] <SpamapS> lifeless: I suspect we'll find declarative ways to do all of this before too long
[05:32] <SpamapS> lifeless: Since juju is an event engine, we should be able to write a pretty simple state machine to drive charms
[05:33] <lifeless> some simple charms might start when there are no relations, but I suspect they are all done: DB's, proxies and web servers.
[05:34] <lifeless> anything *interesting* needs data to act on :)
[05:36] <SpamapS> lifeless: indeed, tho thus far I know of no charms which actually do make sure they have their relations before start
[05:36] <lifeless> SpamapS: well, opentsdb *can't* start until it has it :)
[05:37] <lifeless> SpamapS: ditto hbase
[05:37] <lifeless> hbase has to have zk and hdfs to do anything; pretty sure it only starts when all the configs are there, and start does $nothing
[05:37] <SpamapS> lifeless:  [ -f /etc/opentsdb/required.thing ] && service opentsdb start || echo not ready yet
[05:48] <lifeless> SpamapS: there is nothing written to disk though :)
[05:48] <lifeless> its all in zk
[05:52] <SpamapS> lifeless: the charm would keep that state
[05:52] <SpamapS> lifeless: the relation-ids+relation-get approach is just a way to do it w/o a file on disk
[06:03]  * SpamapS pokes at a nice generic monitoring interface
[06:04] <SpamapS> EvilMog: btw, I couldn't get john+mpich2 to work.. just seems to error out all over the place. :-/
[06:04] <EvilMog> yeah
[06:04] <EvilMog> its a pain in the ass to get going
[06:04] <EvilMog> only code I ever get to work is the older zeroshell patch
[06:04] <EvilMog> but the jtr authors claim it works
[06:04] <EvilMog> may have to go john openmpi
[06:05] <EvilMog> I may get them to join this channel and chat with you
[06:06] <SpamapS> EvilMog: charm "works" so you can try it too.. it just fails with assertions when you actually try to do anything
[06:06] <EvilMog> yeah
[06:07] <EvilMog> I get the same issue with the recent code
[06:07] <EvilMog> which is why I may try it with openmpi
[06:07] <EvilMog> instead of mpich2
[06:07] <SpamapS> makes sense
[06:07] <EvilMog> http://openwall.info/wiki/john/parallelization
[06:08] <SpamapS> yeah I used that
[06:08] <SpamapS> and the 10.04 guide you posted
[06:08] <EvilMog> one common problem with jtr + mpich is not having clock synch'd, and not having ssh keys to the whole cluster
[06:08] <EvilMog> yeah
[06:08] <EvilMog> and the hosts files
[06:08] <SpamapS> I have ssh to whole cluster, thats easy w/ juju
[06:08] <SpamapS> clock skew might have been an issue, I did not check
[06:08] <EvilMog> I know code that works, but its older base
[06:09] <EvilMog> http://www.bindshell.net/tools/johntheripper.html
[06:09] <EvilMog> http://www.bindshell.net/tools/johntheripper/john-<IP_ADDRESS>-mpi8.tar.gz
[06:09] <EvilMog> specifically
[06:09] <EvilMog> and that one I know works with mpich2
[06:10] <EvilMog><EMAIL_ADDRESS>is the guy you want to talk to
[06:10] <EvilMog> he wrote the original mpi code
[06:13] <EvilMog> btw I really appreciate it
[06:16] <EvilMog> ftp://ftp.openwall.com/pub/projects/john/contrib/parallel/mpi/MPIandPasswordCracking.pdf
[06:18] <EvilMog> again thats for the older bindshell implementation though
[06:24] <SpamapS> EvilMog: cool.. I'll poke at it another time when I'm not super tired
[06:24] <EvilMog> no worries
[06:24]  * SpamapS passes out
[06:24] <EvilMog> and no rush
[06:24] <EvilMog> my new cluster won't be online for another month
[06:25] <EvilMog> the other option is https://github.com/ccdes/clortho/blob/master/README
[09:51] <_mup_> juju/trunk r552 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:51] <_mup_> [trivial] remove old docs tree, docs are now @ lp:juju/docs
[09:51] <melmoth> hola ! I m playing with maas. juju bootstrap fire up a node, but my maas machine cannot resolve node-000077770001.local
[09:51] <melmoth> it can resolve node-000077770001 though.
[09:51] <melmoth> but when i do a juju status, it try to connect to the name.local one , and as it cannot resolve this name, i m stuck
[09:51] <melmoth> anyone got an idea what i might have been doing wrong ?
[10:17] <hazmat> melmoth, maas is returning the .local name
[10:17] <melmoth> yeah. I try to remove it manually with the web page that let you edit nodes names.
[10:17] <hazmat> and its not resolvable to your client..its really shouldn't be returning an mdns name
[10:17] <melmoth> seems to work
[10:18] <hazmat> melmoth, cool
[10:49] <koolhead11> hazmat: that doc request was pending in queue 4 ages :)
[11:08] <hazmat> koolhead11, yeah.. the charm reviewers queue worked out so well, i put one together for core, and spent a good chunk of yesterday clearing it out
[11:09] <hazmat> cleared out like 12 branches yesterday
[11:09] <hazmat> down to 6, mostly mine though, http://jujucharms.com/tools/core-review-queue
[11:10] <hazmat> now to work through the openstack branch
[11:11] <hazmat> koolhead11, the new doc as a separate branch should help make doc changes go much, much faster (based on evidence to date)
[11:56] <koolhead11> hazmat: thanks.
[14:40] <SpamapS> hazmat: go man go! Nice job on the merges the last 24 hours :)
[14:42] <hazmat> SpamapS, thanks
[15:20] <SpamapS> james_w: Hey, I'm working on enhancing nagios, nrpe, and monitoring in general. Did you ever go much further than lp:~james-w/charms/precise/nagios-nrpe-server/trunk ?
[15:20] <james_w> SpamapS, not outside my head
[15:21] <tedg> I think something weird is going on, but I'm really not sure.
[15:21] <SpamapS> james_w: ok, I have some solutions for your nrpe.cfg issues
[15:21] <tedg> It seems like the juju agent never starts on a machine that is numbered 5
[15:21] <SpamapS> tedg: Are you saying "There's something happenin here, and what it is aint exactly clear" ?
[15:22] <tedg> It always gets to the state where the instance is running but the agent is not.
[15:22] <tedg> And it always seems to be machine #5
[15:22] <tedg> Hmm, maybe because I've continually terminated four?
[15:22] <james_w> tedg, lxc?
[15:22] <tedg> SpamapS, Not sure what I'm saying... :-)
[15:23] <tedg> james_w, EC2
[15:27] <tedg> Do other folks use "terminate-machine" or am I alone there?  :-)
[15:27] <tedg> I mean, and expect to create nodes again, not just as a final clean up.
[15:30] <hazmat> SpamapS, it helped hugely to put up a queue page for the core
[17:47] <_mup_> juju/gozk r20 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:47] <_mup_> Mentioned that the package has moved.
[18:45] <imbrandon> hazmat: any idea why my nginx isnt showing in the charm queue ( i'm positive its something i forgot to do, and not the queue problem , just not sure what )
[18:46] <imbrandon> ahh
[18:46] <imbrandon> and i take that back
[18:46] <imbrandon> it is, i was just to fast
[18:52] <hazmat> imbrandon, 10m ;-)
[18:53] <imbrandon> :)
[18:54] <imbrandon> $config = template::read('nginx.conf');
[18:54] <imbrandon> template::write('/etc/nginx/nginx.conf',$config);
[18:54] <imbrandon> that is just too sexy, now if i can get the rest of the charm so :)
[19:15] <_mup_> Bug #1020245 was filed: "terminate-machine" drops two machine numbers <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020245 >
[19:18] <jcastro> imbrandon: can you check your mail and see if HP sent you anything wrt. the HP cloud accounts?
[19:18] <imbrandon> jcastro: sure one sec
[19:19] <imbrandon> not that search is turning up
[19:21] <jcastro> imbrandon: yeah I think I'll need to mail all of you
[19:22] <imbrandon> jcastro: why whats up ?
[19:22] <jcastro> I think they enabled them
[19:22] <jcastro> but I need you to check
[19:22] <jcastro> the free 3 months thing
[19:22] <imbrandon> oh ,i hope so, /me has had instances spun up for about 10 days
[19:22] <imbrandon> heh
[19:25] <imbrandon> jcastro: my bill is still -0-'d out so i'm assuming its on
[19:27] <jcastro> I wonder when they turned it on
[19:27] <imbrandon> not sure, yea i kinda assumed it was when u told us about it
[19:27] <imbrandon> oopsie :)
[19:28] <jcastro> hazmat: what's the scoop on the openstack native provider?
[19:28] <hazmat> jcastro, i was going to review today
[19:28] <hazmat> but got derailed
[19:28] <jcastro> hazmat: cool
[19:35] <hazmat> jcastro, its the last one in the queue
[19:35] <hazmat> jimbaker, ping
[19:48] <jimbaker> hazmat, hi
[19:48] <jcastro> hazmat: that works out, they turned on the free accounts today, so this should give us a nice pool to test from
[20:00] <hazmat> jcastro, nice
[20:00] <hazmat> jimbaker, you've got an approved branch ready to land fwiw
[20:02] <jimbaker> hazmat, sounds good
[20:02] <jimbaker> hazmat, still catching up after being sick for 3 days
[20:02] <hazmat> jimbaker, i'd hold for a few an hr though, i've got a trunk issue that i need to fix
[20:03] <jimbaker> hazmat, ok, just tell me when you're done w/ that
[20:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: have we figured out the natty/oneiric build issues yet?
[20:12] <hazmat> SpamapS, re format2.. no
[20:12] <hazmat> i asked bcsaller to look at it, but not sure if there's any progress
[20:12] <SpamapS> imbrandon: is OMG on precise or oneiric?
[20:23]  * negronjl is out to lunch
[20:39] <pindonga> hi, trying to get juju running on openstack, and I get this: ERROR Invalid host for SSH forwarding: ssh: Could not resolve hostname server-13056: Name or service not known... any ideas?
[20:58] <hazmat> pindonga, this should be a faq
[20:58] <hazmat> pindonga, depending on your maas config it may not hand out addresses routable from the client
[20:59] <hazmat> pindonga, afaicr you can set the name in maas directly
[20:59] <pindonga> hazmat, pm
[20:59] <hazmat> its really a maas setup question
[22:18] <hokka> is it possible to have relationships between services in different environments?
[22:22] <SpamapS> hokka: not yet no, but thats definitely something we'd like to do
[22:22] <SpamapS> hokka: you can "fake it" with subordinate charms
[22:23] <SpamapS> hokka: you but you have to manually bring the data from one env to another unless you get really clever :)
[22:25] <m_3> jcastro: yo
[22:37] <SpamapS> m_3: good morning sunshine
[22:38] <m_3> SpamapS: g'day mate
[22:39] <m_3> SpamapS: and now I can say that and actually know _which_ day too :)
[22:39] <SpamapS> Friesmurday ?
[22:40] <SpamapS> Or Sunthednesday
[22:40] <SpamapS> m_3: trying to tackle the tricky art of a generic monitoring interface
[22:41] <SpamapS> nagios/icinga are almost *too* powerful for this :-P
[22:41] <m_3> nice
[22:41] <m_3> take a peek at sensu
[22:41] <hazmat> m_3, i don't understand all the hype on sensu
[22:41]  * m_3 likes the possible integration with an underlying openstack install
[22:41] <hazmat> its rabbitmq..
[22:41] <m_3> right
[22:41] <hazmat> and lacks a decent frontend afaik
[22:42] <SpamapS> Nagios has never had a decent frontend
[22:42] <hazmat> SpamapS, its like saying cassandra.. its the new monitoring hotness and toss in some adapters
[22:42] <SpamapS> somehow dominated everybody else with s***ty 1993 style HTML tables
[22:42] <hazmat> SpamapS, ichinga FTW
[22:42] <hazmat> jk
[22:43] <SpamapS> I wonder how much of what I'm doing for nagios will translate to icinga
[22:43] <hazmat> sensu basically tosses some adapters onto rabbitmq.. and now people treat it like the perfect monitoring solution..
[22:43] <m_3> thin, scales, adaptable... what's not to like?
[22:44] <hazmat> m_3, buts what it do?
[22:44] <hazmat> its a log transport
[22:44] <m_3> what do you really need a monitoring soln to do?  I want custom metrics
[22:45] <SpamapS> hazmat: sounds pretty good to me
[22:45] <SpamapS> this polling stuff is for the birds
[22:45] <m_3> that get where I want them to go... the rest I can handle with other stuff
[22:45] <hazmat> sigh.. i could write an amqp adapter for collectd and be equiv
[22:45] <hazmat> SpamapS, its still polling
[22:45] <m_3> simple composable tools
[22:45] <hazmat> er.. not polling pushing
[22:45] <SpamapS> hazmat: you could, but you didn't, and they did.. right? ;)
[22:45] <m_3> hazmat: yeah, true
[22:46] <m_3> community of plugins/adapters
[22:46] <SpamapS> collectd scares me
[22:46] <m_3> well, the _start_ of one :)
[22:46] <SpamapS> 49 C libs many of which are really crappy
[22:49] <SpamapS> anyway, what you really want is not a way for your service to say "poll this" but "record this"
[22:49] <SpamapS> *how* you record that is up to the monitoring system
[22:49] <m_3> hazmat: I rprefer "publishing"... it's lighter weight :)
[22:49] <SpamapS> hazmat: http://collectd.org/wiki/index.php/Plugin:AMQP
[22:50] <m_3> hot-n-sour soup style... just dump it in... anybody insterested can pick it up
[22:51] <m_3> sorry for the lag... my irssi client's stateside
[22:52] <m_3> dave cheney and I had a hilarious interchange... he's down the street so we had high latency... possibly even round-the-world routes :)
[23:01] <hazmat> SpamapS, exactly.. and avoid the overhead of a ruby processes ;-)
[23:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: +1
[23:04]  * m_3 ducks
[23:43] <hazmat> jimbaker, can you have a look at this trivial.. fixes trunk http://paste.ubuntu.com/1072207/
[23:44] <hazmat> the new format v1/v2 tests were pretty exact on output (good thing), but the the validate branch, allows for them some of them to be set at least
[23:44] <hazmat> re bools and floats
[23:44] <hazmat> i'm tempted to back out the whole validate branch though..
[23:46] <hazmat> but considering they couldn't be set previously err, still seems like a win
[23:46] <hazmat> er. set from the cli params
[23:50] <hazmat> bcsaller, ^
[23:50] <jimbaker> hazmat, ahh, that's not good to have failing tests in trunk
[23:52] <jimbaker> hazmat, even if they were about very picky as to what was the then behavior. in any event, the trivial looks fine to me
[23:52] <jimbaker> +1
[23:52] <bcsaller> that looks fine to me as well
[23:53] <hazmat> jimbaker, yeah.. the other branch last one merged in the stack yesterday was pre formatv2 tests
[23:53] <hazmat> thanks guys
[23:55] <_mup_> juju/trunk r553 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:55] <_mup_> [trivial] cli config validation compatibility with format v2 [r=bcsaller, jimbaker]
[23:56] <hazmat> jimbaker, trunk is green if you want to go ahead with the status-expose
[23:56] <jimbaker> hazmat, thanks
[23:56] <hazmat> jimbaker, bcsaller incidentally i also put together one of those review queue pages for pyjuju.. http://jujucharms.com/tools/core-review-queue
[23:57] <bcsaller> nice
[23:57] <hazmat> bcsaller, if you can merge trunk.. and repropose your branch, i can have a look later this evening
[23:57] <bcsaller> yeah, cleaning up the others too, there should be more than one
[23:59] <jimbaker> hazmat, did we ever find out about the build problems on oneiric/natty?
[23:59] <hazmat> bcsaller, ^?
[23:59] <hazmat> dog walk bbiab
[23:59] <bcsaller> there are other branching going into review
[23:59] <jimbaker> my one small attempt to replicate this (by launching a small instance for oneiric) simply suggested that this seemed to be a general problem. but not for the format stuff


[22:59] <harlowja> smoser so jinja2 seems to be more feature compatible with cheetah, have the templates converted over
[23:00] <harlowja> smoser u were thinking about having this new template engine be the default right?


[02:51] <jbicha> could you retry the gtk+3.0 and gvfs autopkgtests? apparently they were triggered before the i386 gtk+3.0 binary had been fully published
[03:01] <jbicha> and notify-osd, software-properties, evolution-data-server
[08:56] <xnox> Can ubuntu-themes please let through? it's being held by firefox autopkgtest that is failing
[08:56] <xnox> autopkgtest for firefox 23.0~b10+build1-0ubuntu1: FAIL
[08:58] <xnox> Please de-new multi-arched tcl8.6 (following suite of the default tcl8.5) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=tcl
[09:06] <cjwatson> infinity: Retries *ought* to be collected automatically
[09:10] <cjwatson> Hm, gtk+3.0 doesn't seem to have been though
[09:11] <cjwatson> jibel: ^- Do you know why adt-britney still thinks gtk+3.0 is running?
[09:12] <cjwatson> There's a .result file with a pass at the proper version, AFAICS
[09:16] <jibel> cjwatson, I think I fixed gtk+3.0 earlier this morning, the only running I see in excuses are
[09:16] <jibel> autopkgtest for postgresql-9.1 9.1.9-2bzr1: RUNNING (Jenkins: public, private)
[09:16] <jibel> autopkgtest for php5 5.5.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1: RUNNING (Jenkins: public, private)
[09:16] <jibel> for tzdata
[09:16] <jibel> cjwatson, where do you see gtk+3.0 is running?
[09:17] <jibel> s/I think//
[09:22] <cjwatson> $ cat saucy-proposed_amd64_gtk+3.0; echo
[09:22] <cjwatson> {"status": {"i386": "RUNNING", "amd64": "RUNNING", "all": "RUNNING"}
[09:22] <cjwatson> [...]
[09:22] <cjwatson> in ~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/autopkgtest/data/adt/saucy-proposed/amd64/
[09:22] <cjwatson> And in excuses, gtk+3.0 is listed as FAIL, which is also wrong but differently
[09:23] <cjwatson> The most recent test at that version passed and that was several hours ago
[09:24] <cjwatson> chrisccoulson: Any chance of either fixing or removing the firefox autopkgtests?
[09:25] <cjwatson> xnox: firefox tests forced for now
[09:26] <xnox> cjwatson: thanks.
[09:37] <seb128> cjwatson, on -devel earlier: <chrisccoulson> seb128, jibel, i can't reproduce it here. and from looking at the log, it doesn't look like it even gets to the point of starting the test harness
[09:41] <infinity> cjwatson: The retry for eglibc doesn't seem to have been picked up, it's still FAIL.
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, cjwatson, see last comment in #ubuntu-devel ;)
[10:00] <xnox> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-ubiquity/128/ARCH=i386,label=adt/console is very odd, it failed, but it is testing 2.15.13 adt tests against 2.15.12 installed package.
[10:00] <xnox> which is expected to fail, but obsolete package version is being tested.
[10:00] <xnox> jibel: cjwatson: ^ mirror delays again?!
[10:09] <cjwatson> xnox: not my fault
[10:18] <jibel> xnox, it's my fault. I'm stepping through the workflow to find where it should wait, and where test states get out of sync
[10:30] <ogra_> Setting up python3.3-minimal (3.3.2-3ubuntu1) ...
[10:30] <ogra_>   File "/usr/lib/python3.3/site.py", line 232
[10:30] <ogra_>     if hasattr(os, "getgid") and hasattr(os, "getegidify         # check process gid == effective gid
[10:31] <ogra_> hmfp ...
[10:31] <ogra_> (last ubuntu touch image build ^^^)
[10:32] <ogra_> weird, and there were no changes to python
[10:33] <cjwatson> ogra_: it's obvious panda damage again
[10:33] <cjwatson> just retry
[10:34] <ogra_> yeah, i'm not sure if i shouldnt ask for a reboot first
[10:34] <cjwatson> I wouldn't bother
[10:34] <ogra_> k
[10:34]  * ogra_ retires
[10:34] <cjwatson> I was actually just in the process of catching up on #ubuntu-touch to see if you were already discussing this before telling you
[10:40] <cjwatson> infinity: How goes the Calxeda install, anyway? :)
[10:40] <ogra_> ++
[10:40] <ogra_> :)
[10:41] <infinity> cjwatson: See #is.
[10:43] <cjwatson> Hm, right