 i seriously dislike ubuntu, when i get this problem solved i am moving to another distro
[00:12] <bazhang> 'my linux is broken' crosspost
[00:14] <Unit193> Why solve the problem then move on?  And yeah, just saw someone say something about going to mint after asking a question with no details, and not getting a response. :P
[00:16] <bazhang> he's crossposting and asking if redhat is more stable for him
[01:06] <bazhang> tv can run ubuntu now!
[06:32] <Ben64> * Received a CTCP VERSION from YWH_1
[06:33] <Ben64> on joining #ubuntu
[06:33] <rww> checking
[06:34] <rww> huh. my webchat and I aren't getting it
[06:34] <rww> odd
[06:34] <Ben64> can you see ctcp at all?
[06:35] <rww> yes, i saw that
[06:35] <Ben64> well then, idk
[06:36] <rww> confirmed via elky
[06:36] <rww> I'll poke it with a stick, thanks
[06:36] <Ben64> :)
[06:38] <rww> PM sent, banforwarding if no reply in 10min
[07:09] <rww> and i completely forgot about this, so rather longer than 10 minutes :)
[07:12] <rww> @comment 69430 automated CTCP VERSIONing people when they join channel
[07:12] <rww> @login
[07:12] <rww> @comment 69430 automated CTCP VERSIONing people when they join channel
[09:16] <ikonia> YWH_1: hello
[14:55] <ikonia> note foot_massage, racist in ubuntu, sexual conent in #kubuntu
[15:00] <bazhang> also in #lubuntu ikonia
[15:03] <bazhang>  Hosts for foot_massage and horny_girl: gateway/web/freenode/ip.<IP_ADDRESS>
[19:19] <ikonia> hello clrae
[19:22] <clrae> +ikonia ; hI  there
[19:22] <ikonia> how can the operator team help you today ?
[19:24] <clrae> well i wan to install lubuntu-desktop packege manually from a usb , because i dont have access to internet to do apt-get
[19:24] <ikonia> clrae: ok - so #ubuntu is the correct channel for that, you're in #ubuntu-ops, which is for questions about the actual channel
[19:25] <clrae> am willing to download every package here and install it  by sudo dpkg -i one by one
[19:25] <ikonia> a.) #ubuntu is the correct place b.) you've been told that is a bad idea, and how to do it properly
[19:25] <clrae> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/lubuntu-desktop here
[19:25] <k1l_> clrae: this here is the wrong channel. #ubuntu for support
[19:26] <ikonia> I suggest ifyou don't need anything from the operator team you part this channel, and rejoin #ubuntu
[19:26] <clrae> ok i understand  obutto refered me to this chanel
[19:26] <ikonia> I don't think it did
[19:27] <clrae> ubottu from   #ubuntu
[19:27] <ikonia> didn't say anything about joining #ubuntu-ops
[19:27] <ikonia> but it doesn't matter
[19:27] <ikonia> if you don't need anything from the team just "/part' this channel and use #ubuntu
[19:27] <k1l_> clrae: it gave you a message, that your message will be forwarded to here, because its just a bot.
[19:28] <clrae> what does the term "bot" means ?
[19:28] <ikonia> automated person
[19:29] <ikonia> it's just there to give you info
[19:29] <ikonia> as in "robot"
[19:38] <ikonia> clrae: sorted ?
[21:24] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[21:24] <lotuspsychje> the last link tuxfiles on !fstab is dead, just reporting
[21:24] <lotuspsychje> !fstab


[00:11] <nacc> kyrofa: ... ok
[00:11] <nacc> sergiusens: if you can confirm, i can do it
[00:24] <nacc> kyrofa: thannks, i see it in the snapcraft yaml and also saw it earlier with conjure-up. Will try that!
[00:57] <nacc> kyrofa: ok, now i'm confused, if i build my own python != ubuntu python (e.g., 3.6 instead of 3.5 in xenial), how do i ensure the parts that depend on it use that python? it seems like it's usinng the packaged python3 to build the modules
[05:35] <lool-> kyrofa: shoot!
[05:36] <lool-> kyrofa: I'm on the west coast for the week, not watching IRC much though
[05:47] <mup> PR snapd#3967 closed: release: release snapd 2.28 <Created by mvo5> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3967>
[05:47] <mup> PR snapd#3969 closed: hooks: rename refresh hook to post-refresh <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3969>
[05:50] <mup> PR snapd#3968 closed: daemon: use client.Snap instead of map[string]interface{} for snaps <Created by chipaca> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3968>
[05:51] <mup> PR snapd#3962 closed: tests: Increase SNAPD_CONFIGURE_HOOK_TIMEOUT to 3 minutes to install real snaps <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3962>
[05:52] <mup> PR snapd#3960 closed: travis: switch to container based test runs <Created by mvo5> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3960>
[06:32]  * zyga-ubuntu -> breakfast
[07:24]  * zyga-ubuntu bisects snap-seccomp regression
[08:20] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: hey
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: not sure if you are at the rally or at home
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: I ran into something that I don't understand and I think you could shed some light on it
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: I summarized the problem here: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snap-seccomp-fails-tests-on-artful-is-it/2263/4?u=zyga
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: a small test program doesn't compile
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> doko: and fails with the following error
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> /usr/include/stdlib.h:25:10: fatal error: bits/libc-header-start.h: Nie ma takiego pliku ani katalogu
[08:21] <zyga-ubuntu> (no such file or directory, sorry about that last fragment)
[08:31]  * zyga-ubuntu moves to another task, not sure how to do this
[09:21] <mup> PR snapd#3970 opened: interfaces/mount,cmd/snap-update-ns: move change code <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3970>
[09:31] <zyga-ubuntu> man, this is a lonely week here
[09:39] <Neeraj> "Issues while validating snapcraft.yaml: Additional properties are not allowed ('grade', 'confinement' were unexpected)" in snap classic
[09:39] <Neeraj> can anybody help
[09:41] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: hey
[09:41] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: drop grade, I think it's not used anymore
[09:41] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: what was the value of "confinement"?
[09:42] <Neeraj> confinement is "strict"
[09:42] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: not sure what the latter part of the message is about
[09:43] <zyga-ubuntu> try again and tell me what you get
[09:43] <Neeraj> Issues while validating snapcraft.yaml: Additional properties are not allowed ('confinement' was unexpected)
[09:44] <Neeraj> is it ok to drop confinement
[09:44] <Neeraj> (classic)admin@GTXQB02:~/TSE$ snapcraft Issues while validating snapcraft.yaml: Additional properties are not allowed ('confinement' was unexpected)
[09:44] <Neeraj> I am in classic mode
[09:45] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: what do you mean you are in classic mode?
[09:46] <Neeraj> --beta --devmode classic
[09:47] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: do you mean that the snap you've installed is in that mode and that somehow affects how it validates in snapcraft?
[09:47] <Neeraj> yes
[09:48] <Neeraj> zyga-ubuntu : is you are correct
[09:49] <Neeraj> zyga-ubuntu: snapcraft executes only in classic mode
[09:50] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: hmm, I doubt that how snapcraft is installed affects how it validates other snaps
[09:51] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: in any case, I'm not a snapcraft developer, please ask when US wakes up :/ I don't know what the problem might be
[09:51] <zyga-ubuntu> Neeraj: if you pastebin the snapcraft.yaml and open a forum thread it will be easier to get an answer in other timezones
[11:29] <mup> PR snapd#3971 opened: interfaces/mount: make Change.Perform testable and test it <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3971>
[12:30] <kalikiana_> o/
[12:43]  * zyga-ubuntu -> break
[12:45] <Son_Goku> >_>
[13:51] <__chip__> zyga-ubuntu: good morning sah
[14:19] <jdstrand> sergiusens: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1598309/comments/5
[14:19] <mup> Bug #1598309: The aplay command doesn't work <snapd-interface> <xenial> <snapd (Ubuntu):Fix Released by jdstrand> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598309>
[14:21] <jdstrand> sergiusens: fyi, two people in this room hit this issue and were annoyed by it, in fact, considering classic confinement
[14:46] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: o/?
[14:50] <jdstrand> sergiusens: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snap-and-executable-stacks/1812
[14:51] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: hey
[14:51] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: how are things?
[14:52] <zyga-ubuntu> jdstrand: hello
[14:52] <apol> sergiusens: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1719928
[14:52] <mup> Bug #1719928: snapcraft update won't fetch from SNAPCRAFT_PARTS_URI  <Snapcraft:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719928>
[15:05] <mup> PR snapd#3972 opened: repo: sanitize plugs and slots early in ReadInfo <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3972>
[15:08] <jamesh> zyga-ubuntu: hi.  Thanks for the review of my user-mounts PR.  There were a few change suggestions (moving code to snap-update-ns, persisting mount namespaces, etc).  Want to discuss?
[15:08] <zyga-ubuntu> jamesh: hi
[15:08] <zyga-ubuntu> jamesh: yes!
[15:08] <zyga-ubuntu> jamesh: I think mvo was trying to set up a hangout
[15:09] <zyga-ubuntu> jamesh: can you guys get together and join, say, the daily standup HO?
[15:09] <jamesh> zyga-ubuntu: mvo said he didn't necessarily need to be in the hangout.  Let me find some place quiet
[15:09] <zyga-ubuntu> aha, that's fine
[15:10] <zyga-ubuntu> I'm ready as you are, just give me the word
[15:26] <zyga-ubuntu> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3973
[15:26] <mup> PR #3973: cmd/snap-confine: put processes into freezer hierarchy <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3973>
[15:26] <mup> PR snapd#3973 opened: cmd/snap-confine: put processes into freezer hierarchy <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3973>
[15:29] <apol> kalikiana_: http://www.proli.net/2017/05/23/kdevelop-runtimes-docker-and-flatpak-integration/
[15:36] <mup> PR snapd#3974 opened: Recognise Solus as a classic Linux distribution <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3974>
[15:38] <zyga-ubuntu> ikey: thank you!
[15:38] <ikey> np bud
[15:39] <ikey> more to come probably
[15:39] <ikey> we need snapd/polkit for the solus SC to work
[15:39] <ikey> so im taking us to git which means making git support solus :P
[15:40] <ikey> i considered changing the conditional to if distro == ubuntu but then i remembered everyone mangles their os-release/lsb_release for branding ..
[15:40] <zyga-ubuntu> "taking us to git" ?
[15:40] <ikey> taking solus snapd package to git in unstable
[15:40] <ikey> vs released pkg
[15:40] <ikey> so that i can get SC working
[15:40] <Son_Goku> zyga-ubuntu: this check really needs to be reworked
[15:40] <ikey> Son_Goku, it would break ubuntu derivatives that rebrand
[15:40] <ikey> and others
[15:40] <ikey> i had the same thought
[15:40] <ikey> but i dont see it as viable
[15:41] <ikey> which is why its "explicitly not ubuntu" vs "is ubuntu"
[15:41] <Son_Goku> ikey: well, if we check for ID and ID_LIKE for particular values to enable ubuntu-ish behavior
[15:41] <ikey> assuming derivs arent derping that already
[15:41] <Son_Goku> then default to not enabling ubuntu-ish behavior, it's more likely to work properly
[15:41] <ikey> and im not aware of many using ID_LIKE
[15:41] <ikey> tbh
[15:42] <Son_Goku> most derivatives of the major distributions use ID_LIKE
[15:42] <ikey> yknow what'd simplify it all together?
[15:42] <Son_Goku> for example, even RHEL identifies as "like Fedora"
[15:42] <ikey> if the snapd package in the repos contains a file saying a reexec is OK
[15:42] <Son_Goku> ikey: runtime detection? :)
[15:42] <ikey> so its determined at packaging level
[15:42] <ikey> and all derivs implicitly use it
[15:42] <ikey> unless they repackage
[15:42] <Son_Goku> ikey: in Fedora, I do that for re-exec
[15:43] <Son_Goku> that's the /etc/sysconfig/snapd
[15:43] <Son_Goku> because otherwise derivatives are busted
[15:43] <ikey> stateless it! :P
[15:43] <ikey> lol
[15:44] <Son_Goku> well, I was talking to mvo earlier about making it so snapd didn't depend on environment variables to do this
[15:44] <Son_Goku> and instead read a config file in /etc/ and in /usr/share
[15:44]  * ikey likey
[15:44] <Son_Goku> (with /etc/ overriding /usr/share values, obviously)
[15:44] <ikey> :D
[15:44] <Son_Goku> well, this scheme is something we've been moving to as a whole in Fedora
[15:44] <ikey> ah good
[15:44] <Son_Goku> it's why we don't recommend doing dumb things like using environmentfiles
[15:45] <ikey> heh
[15:45] <Son_Goku> but the Go community explicitly recommends controlling by environment files
[15:45] <ikey> and then systemd was like hey - lets reinvent pam_env xD
[15:45] <Son_Goku> well, at least the pam_env works with packager -> override by admin model
[15:45] <ikey> mm
[15:45] <Son_Goku> err, the systemd version
[15:45] <Son_Goku> the pam_env doesn't
[15:45] <ikey> ya no that ones bork
[15:45] <Son_Goku> everything lives in bloody /etc
[15:46] <Son_Goku> my ideal is that /etc/ would be drained of things shipped by packages
[15:46] <ikey> yeo
[15:46] <ikey> *yep
[15:46] <ikey> i think we need to align all distros on the new wheres though
[15:46] <ikey> in clr and solus we went for /usr/share/defaults for renamespaced config fallbacks
[15:46] <ikey> and if sensible, /usr/share/$pkg
[15:47] <ikey> like pulseaudio
[15:47] <Son_Goku> ikey: I was starting to use /usr/share/$pkg/sysconfig
[15:47] <ikey> ew
[15:47] <ikey> its not config :p
[15:47] <Son_Goku> well, it is
[15:47] <ikey> its default stuff lol
[15:47] <ikey> (oh we also use /usr/share/xdg/* )
[15:47] <Son_Goku> well, the idea is that /etc/sysconfig would override /usr/share/*/sysconfig
[15:47] <ikey> plus having a single namespace is nicer for tooling
[15:47] <ikey> /usr/share/defaults/*
[15:48] <Son_Goku> though if I could have my way, I'd flip it to /usr/share/sysconfig and /etc/sysconfig as the override
[15:48] <ikey> yeah
[15:48] <ikey> easier for autotools too tbh
[15:48] <Son_Goku> yeah
[15:48] <Son_Goku> the reason I didn't call it defaults is because in many cases, applications don't support partial overrides
[15:49] <ikey> shpose
[15:49] <Son_Goku> and that the whole config files have to be overridden
[15:49] <ikey> a lot of our stateless patches end up being something like:
[15:49] <ikey> const char *cfg = NULL;
[15:49] <ikey> if (access(SYSTEM_CONFIG, F_OK) == 0) {
[15:49] <ikey>     cfg = SYSTEM_CONFIG;
[15:49] <ikey> } else {
[15:50] <ikey>     cfg = VENDOR_CONFIG;
[15:50] <ikey> }
[15:50] <ikey> In a nut shell ^
[15:50] <Son_Goku> right
[15:50] <Son_Goku> and that does make sense
[15:50] <ikey> older applications are harder to do merges on
[15:50] <Son_Goku> and that's pretty much why I went with sysconfig as the directory name
[15:50] <ikey> yeah
[15:50] <Son_Goku> IMO, it's more obvious to people what it means
[15:50] <ikey> reason i disagree with the name is because the relation to SYSCONFDIR
[15:51] <Son_Goku> ah
[15:51] <ikey> When there is the mental separation of sys vs vendor
[15:51] <Son_Goku> I didn't think of that
[15:51] <ikey> or rather, os / data
[15:51] <Son_Goku> right
[15:51] <ikey> + config
[15:52] <ikey> its a tough one for sure but id love for us all to go the same path
[15:52] <ikey> whatever that path is
[15:52] <ikey> and then start prodding all the relevant projects to follow
[15:52] <Son_Goku> so another thought I had was /usr/share/vendorcfg
[15:52] <Son_Goku> and /etc/sysconfig for the admin version
[15:53] <Son_Goku> but I didn't like that so much because it's not as obvious for the mental map
[15:53] <ikey> as long as the package upstreams are onboard with the possibility of their vendorcfg being replaced by us
[15:53] <ikey> which is the issue i guess
[15:53] <ikey> we're the vendors they're the upstreams
[15:53] <Son_Goku> yeah
[15:53] <Son_Goku> well, the idea is that /etc/sysconfig is where users make their own configs
[15:53] <ikey> right
[15:53] <ikey> local sysadmin
[15:53] <Son_Goku> and /usr/share/vendorcfg is where the packages ship them
[15:54] <ikey> (you can see why we ended up with 'defaults' eh? :P)
[15:54] <Son_Goku> yeah
[15:54] <ikey> tbh its almost like "fallback" is the more appropriate term
[15:54] <Son_Goku> I threw away that name almost immediately because the implications that the name has
[15:54] <ikey> just sounds lame
[15:54] <ikey> yer
[15:54] <Son_Goku> naming things is hard :)
[15:54] <ikey> oh dont i know it
[15:55]  * ikey is the author of such wonders as 'Dave2' and 'libthingamabob'
[15:55] <kalikiana_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1590599
[15:55] <mup> Bug #1590599: snapcraft prerequites are slow to resolve <eco-team> <Snapcraft:Fix Released by sergiusens> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590599>
[15:56]  * ikey looks at related snapcraft pull and hugs ypkg
[15:57] <kalikiana_> ikey: thinking of adding a snapcraft backend for ypkg? :-D
[15:58] <nacc> kyrofa: sorry to bother, but did you see my last messages from yesterday? how do I ensure that if I have a python3 part (e.g., for 3.6.2, while xenial has 3.5.x), that the subsequent parts use that python? (otherwise, there doesn't seem to be any modules installed by the subsequent part for 3.6)
[16:04] <ogra_> davidcalle, hrm .. all the links at the bottom of https://docs.ubuntu.com/core/en/reference/gadget#examples-of-production-ready-gagdet-snaps are wrong ...
[16:05] <davidcalle> ogra_: ok, what are the more recent ones?
[16:06] <ogra_> davidcalle, they are on GH ... i'd open a PR but that page doesnt seem to be in https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-core-docs/tree/master/en/guides/build-device
[16:06] <ogra_> boo
[16:07] <ogra_> because i'm in the wrong dir :P
[16:07] <davidcalle> ogra_: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-core-docs/blob/master/en/reference/gadget.md
[16:07] <davidcalle> :D
[16:07] <ogra_> yeah, got it
[16:07] <ikey> kalikiana_, probably could
[16:07] <ikey> emit .snap's easily enough
[16:07] <ikey> id leave it until i have a solus base snap though
[16:08] <nacc> stokachu: --^ you might have a comment on my earlier point. As I thinkn you also have 3.6.2 in your snap as a part
[16:09] <nacc> also, why does `snapcraft pull` build stuff.
[16:10] <apol> SNAPCRAFT_PARTS_URI=http://metadata.neon.kde.org/snap/parts.yaml
[16:10] <apol> git://anongit.neon.kde.org/applications/kate.git
[16:12] <nacc> kyrofa: fwiw, if the 'fix' is to build python in a classic snap, that should be a hard requirement (it seems like this is 'known')?
[16:12] <nacc> sergiusens: --^
[16:13] <Chipaca> augh, no zyga now :-(
[16:13] <Chipaca> niemeyer: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3964/files#diff-784fe30c70e6724012b7d456d65d97acL152
[16:13] <mup> PR #3964: many: implement our own ANSI-escape-using progress indicator <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3964>
[16:14] <Chipaca> niemeyer: :-D but also :-D
[16:15] <ogra_> davidcalle, https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-core-docs/pull/37
[16:15] <mup> PR CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-core-docs#37: point to proper repos for gadget examples <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-core-docs/pull/37>
[16:16] <davidcalle> ogra_: merged, thanks
[16:16] <ogra_> <3
[16:20] <mup> PR snapd#3975 opened: snap-confine: Only attempt to copy/mount NVIDIA libs when NVIDIA is used <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3975>
[16:28] <Son_Goku> kalikiana_: https://gitlab.com/Conan_Kudo/snapcore-mkrpmtree & https://gitlab.com/Conan_Kudo/snapcore-mkrpmtree/pipelines/12211338
[16:28] <Son_Goku> :D
[16:30] <nacc> kyrofa: nm on the how to use the staged python, PEBKAC
[16:33] <apol> kalikiana_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1719951
[16:33] <mup> Bug #1719951: SNAPCRAFT_PARTS_URI doesn't work with cleanbuild <Snapcraft:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719951>
[16:58] <ondra> ogra_ ping
[17:00] <mup> PR snapd#3976 opened: snap-confine: Support biarch Linux distribution confinement <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3976>
[17:24] <mup> PR snapd#3977 opened: interfaces: Enhance full-confinement support for biarch distributions <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3977>
[17:34] <magicaltrout> alright folks, how do i request a 2 track snap repo?
[17:37] <mup> PR snapd#3978 opened: cmd: Correctly name the "Ubuntu" and "Arch" NVIDIA methods <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3978>
[17:42] <ogra_> ondra, moop
[17:48] <mvo> jdstrand: if you could have a quick look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3979 that would be great
[17:48] <mup> PR #3979: snap-confine: update apparmor rules for fedora based base snaps <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3979>
[17:48] <mup> PR snapd#3979 opened: snap-confine: update apparmor rules for fedora based base snaps <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3979>
[18:02] <ikey> looks like 3979 is covered by my PR
[18:02] <ikey> more completely
[18:03] <ikey> conflicts at least. :p
[18:03] <ikey> (3976)
[19:08] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: hey
[19:08] <zyga-ubuntu> how's stuff in NYC?
[19:08] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: hi!
[19:08] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: not bad
[19:09] <zyga-ubuntu> I saw your PR, neat stuff
[19:09] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: i pinged you yesterday and then was busy when you got back to me
[19:09] <zyga-ubuntu> oh, what about?
[19:09] <Chipaca> yes, i'm addressing your review now, thank you
[19:09] <zyga-ubuntu> :-)
[19:09] <zyga-ubuntu> travis is a bit slow today
[19:10] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: I'm geting a "cannot perform operation: mount --bind yadda/yadda/etc/alternatives: permission denied"
[19:10] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: so I thought maybe you'd know what i broke :)
[19:11] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: (my base does have etc/alternatives)
[19:12] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: yes, it's a non-generalized rules
[19:12] <zyga-ubuntu> *rule
[19:12] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: can you show me the real denial (dmesg | grep DENIED)
[19:12] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: I thought we fixed that, if not I can correct quickly if you confirm
[19:12] <Chipaca> zyga-ubuntu: PM
[19:13] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: I had a productive day today so there's a few things up there but I'd like one thing merged
[19:13] <zyga-ubuntu> ack
[19:14] <zyga-ubuntu> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3966
[19:14] <mup> PR #3966: cmd/snap-seccomp,osutil: make user/group lookup functions public <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3966>
[19:14] <zyga-ubuntu> I'd love to land this so that I can iterate
[19:14] <zyga-ubuntu> Chipaca: I'll get some tea and propose a PR for that
[19:20] <ogra_> a PR for tea ... mmmm
[19:36] <roadmr> jdstrand: hey, tools r934 are in production now.
[20:29] <nacc> is there a 'best practices' for testing snaps as-installed?
[20:48] <mup> PR snapd#3980 opened: snap-confine: Ensure lib64 biarch directory is respected <Created by ikeydoherty> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3980>
[20:49] <kyrofa> nacc, not really, since it depends on what the snap is
[20:49] <kyrofa> nacc, for a webapp, I like running a capybara suite against it
[20:50] <nacc> kyrofa: e.g., we have dep8 that understands (from the src) how to run tests. It feels like we should have something, perhaps onnly for classic snaps, that allows a pivot to the classic and run a test suite
[20:50] <nacc> *to the classic snap
[20:52] <kyrofa> nacc, that might make sense to do as the part is being built, but perhaps less sense once the snap is assembled, as things might be completely reorganized and contain _several_ parts
[20:52] <nacc> kyrofa: yeah that's possibly true
[20:53] <nacc> i guess i also think there are some apps taht are being built, and the expectation is some behavior on them, e.g., asserted with unit tests. It would make sense to make it 'easy' to test in the snap as-installed, that the behavior is what you want
[20:53] <kyrofa> nacc, and I'm not sure how much sense it makes on a whole. For example, consider the Nextcloud snap. I'm not really interested in running MySQL's test suite, or Apache's
[20:53] <nacc> sure
[20:53] <kyrofa> But I sure want to test that the whole thing works in concert
[20:53] <kyrofa> Which is a different set of tests
[20:53] <nacc> but let's say you want to know that mysql accepts your statements, via a unit test.
[20:53] <nacc> yeah, I think we're actaully saying the same thing :)
[20:54] <kyrofa> But I can't even communicate with mysql from outside the snap. If mysql's unit tests don't pass I have other problems
[20:54] <kyrofa> You need some sort of higher-level acceptance tests
[20:54] <nacc> in classic you could, right?
[20:54] <nacc> i'm referring to classic in my case
[20:54] <nacc> i agree with confined snaps it's not easy to solve
[20:54] <nacc> or it's too snap-specific
[20:55] <kyrofa> nacc, so you're thinking you would bundle some sort of tests in the final snap?
[20:55] <nacc> yeah
[20:55] <nacc> that is intended to run in the same env as the sanp
[20:55] <nacc> and runs the tests in that env
[20:56] <kyrofa> nacc, that doesn't bloat the snap?
[20:56] <nacc> classic snaps are *really* easy to break
[20:56] <nacc> :)
[20:56] <kyrofa> Hahaha
[20:56] <nacc> with mixed hosts
[20:56] <nacc> (mixed = not all the same host OS)
[20:56] <kyrofa> nacc, so sort of a "am I sane" app
[20:56] <nacc> yeah, exactly
[20:56] <nacc> it's like a self-check
[20:56] <nacc> i guess that's what i can do
.selftest
[20:56] <nacc> i have the tests in my source
[20:56] <nacc> yep
[20:57] <nacc> kyrofa: thanks! that's a godo idea
[20:57] <kyrofa> nacc, seems reasonable!
[20:57] <nacc> rbasak: --^
[20:57] <kyrofa> nacc, I'm not sure I'd call it general guidance, but if that seems doable for your snap I think it seems nice a nice idea
[20:57] <kyrofa> Uh. seems like a nice... you get the idea
[20:57] <kyrofa> So braindead :P
[20:58] <nacc> kyrofa: yeah, it might not be generally useful. I think classic snaps need it more than confined. classic's runtime is far less well-defined
[20:58] <kyrofa> nacc, are you at the rally, by the way?
[20:58] <nacc> kyrofa: unfortunately not
[20:58] <kyrofa> nacc, agreed
[20:58] <kyrofa> nacc, darn, would have liked to meet
[20:58] <nacc> i'd be in the snappy room yelling otherwise :)
[20:58] <kyrofa> Ha!
[21:01] <ikey> im having issues with snap-update-ns from snapd git
[21:02] <ikey> snap-update-ns failed with code 1: No such file or directory
[21:02] <ikey> leaving note more as a reminder to myself tomorrow to bring it up
[21:06] <Son_Goku> zyga-ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1719747
[21:06] <mup> Bug #1719747: Fedora 26 LXD container: cannot load apparmor profile <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719747>
[21:08] <mup> PR snapd#3960 opened: travis: switch to container based test runs <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3960>
[21:08] <jdstrand> roadmr: oh! yay :)
[21:09] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: ^ (14:36 < roadmr> jdstrand: hey, tools r934 are in production now.)
[21:09] <jdstrand> roadmr: thank you :)
[21:09] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: that has the chromium fix
[21:09] <roadmr> jdstrand: np! we did an unrelated rollout but the tools update piggybacked on it :)
[21:09] <jdstrand> music to my ears :)
[21:09] <jdstrand> I <3 piggybacking
[21:10] <oSoMoN> jdstrand, yeah I noticed, my latest build went through without the need for a manual review, thanks!
[21:12] <roadmr> whee :)
[21:33] <jdstrand> ogra_: fyi, the issue with avahi is that ond ra uploaded the snap ahead of the feature that allows it to work. aka, update to 2.28 and it works fine
[21:33] <jdstrand> ogra_: I'm letting Til know now
[21:56] <mup> PR snapd#3979 closed: snap-confine: update apparmor rules for fedora based base snaps <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3979>
[22:05] <ikey> ow. my PR up in flames. :P
[22:16] <mup> PR snapd#3981 opened: release: 2.28.1 <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3981>
[23:28] <mcphail> ikey: +1 for including "whereby" in a pr


[12:10] <knome> !team | reminder: feature definition freeze is next thursday, let's try to get the blueprints ready before that
[15:07] <krytarik> slickymaster, knome: Done - https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/contributor/+merge/278262
[15:12] <krytarik> knome: And please set my work item to 'DONE' too, when you merged it.
[15:12] <knome> krytarik, hmm, do we really want the itemizedlists inside paras?
[15:13] <knome> we're not doing that anywhere
[15:13] <krytarik> Yes!
[15:13] <knome> why?
[15:13] <krytarik> Wait.
[15:13] <knome>  yes.
[15:14] <knome> only one place too
[15:15] <krytarik> Where do you see that? I know I fixed some on the QA Team page.
[15:16] <krytarik> I was more thinking the other way around, where I added more than one once. :P
[15:16] <knome> line 893 of the diff
[15:18] <krytarik> Ah yes, that's because it doesn't like that in an 'abstract'.
[15:18] <knome> aha...
[15:18] <krytarik> Didn't validate.
[15:18] <knome> hrm.
[15:18] <knome> i wonder how the html output looks
[15:18] <krytarik> The same really.
[15:19] <krytarik> Just like the 'note' one.
[15:19] <knome> eghh
[15:19] <knome> we really should try to see other options than abstract for the introduction
[15:19] <knome> it isn't even semantic
[15:19] <krytarik> And it doesn't like sections without any elements other than the title either. :P
[15:20] <knome> yeah
[15:20] <krytarik> So I had "<para></para>" at one place. :P
[15:20] <knome> yep
[15:21] <knome> what's the idea with the new index.html for startpage?
[15:21] <krytarik> 'sed' basically, rather than put together.
[15:21] <knome> ok
[15:22] <knome> i know it's valid, but i don't particularly like this syntax: + padding: 3em 3em 1em;
[15:23] <knome> also, we should just use the same stylesheet for the startpage
[15:23] <knome> but that can wait
[15:23] <krytarik> Yeah, we should.
[15:25] <krytarik> Ah, you mean rather specify them all - yeah, I can agree there.
[15:25] <knome> yep
[15:26] <krytarik> Particularly when you're already up to 3 anyway. :P
[15:26] <knome> yep
[15:26] <knome> 2 is ok
[15:26] <krytarik> Yeah.
[15:26] <knome> 3 is the one that is meh :P
[15:26] <krytarik> So go fix that. :P
[15:27] <knome> hahahahaha!
[15:27] <knome> :X
[15:27] <krytarik> lol
[15:28] <krytarik> I usually just put there as much as is necessary, that is.
[15:29] <knome> heh
[15:30] <knome> so, on relativity...
[15:30] <knome> we will need one link for startpage :P
[15:30] <knome> well actually not
[15:30] <knome> if we don't care how the startpage looks before building
[15:31] <krytarik> Huh? :D
[15:31] <knome> nvm
[15:35] <flocculant> hi knome krytarik
[15:35] <krytarik> Hi flocculant.
[15:36] <knome> hello flocculant
[15:55] <knome> krytarik, and i'm wondering about the makefile targets too
[15:56] <knome> and my brain hurts
[15:56] <krytarik> Yeah, Makefile stuff does that to one... :D
[16:02] <knome> epub sigh
[16:04] <krytarik> Yeah, at least they kind of "work" now again. :P
[16:04] <knome> what is "-cp ..." ?
[16:04] <krytarik> They look horrible though, that is. :D
[16:04] <krytarik> Ignore errors.
[16:04] <knome> ok
[16:10] <knome> ok, i think i fixed it
[16:20] <SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 13 updates, showing the latest 3
[17:46] <Unit193> Well -cp means you don't echo it.
[17:56] <krytarik> Unit193: Nope, that's '@'.
[18:14] <krytarik> knome: This is what I have right now on top of your current branch, however - barring the needed style fixes for the startpage mentioned in -offtopic: http://paste.openstack.org/show/CC7IP1SJM4guDL4v1yzp/
[18:15] <krytarik> I trust it's easy for you to fix those. :)
[18:18] <Unit193> Oooooh, right!
[18:28] <krytarik> knome: If you'd just refer to my review in the commit log, that'd be nice - so I don't have to comment. :D
[18:37] <krytarik> (Which would just be a link to the diff paste anyway.)
[19:22] <knome> krytarik, i changed the filename because i wanted to highlight that it's the startpage specific stuff
[19:28] <krytarik> knome: Yeah, it's easier to distinguish in the index file anyway.
[20:54] <krytarik> knome: Oh crap, it should be "html-style: ../common-libs" in 'user-docs/Makefile' - I seem to have not saved that before doing the diff. >_<
[21:02] <krytarik> + too
[21:03] <knome> ahahahaha
[21:03] <krytarik> lol
[21:03] <krytarik> It's the little things, you know! :P
[21:06] <krytarik> You don't need a new diff though, right? :D
[21:07] <pleia2> knome: no pictures yet (see ticket) but a draft of the next xubuntu at post is up if you want to proof https://xubuntu.org/?p=3597&preview=true
[21:08] <knome> pleia2, i'll look at it later today
[21:08] <pleia2> knome: thanks :)
[22:20] <knome> pleia2, "Also, we understand the positive aspects of giving the user access to modify as it can lead to a better function and understanding of the software."
[22:20] <knome> pleia2, modify what?
[22:21] <knome> pleia2, "First of all we believed that this platform better suited the needs of our organization."
[22:21] <knome> pleia2, better than what? or "best" ?
[22:22] <knome> pleia2, "Is there anything else you wish to share with us about FreeGeek Chicago or how you use Xubuntu?"
[22:22] <knome> pleia2, maybe we should drop the "or how you use Xubuntu?" since they don't mention it again
[22:23] <knome> pleia2, apart from that, i did some very minor edits (remove a comma, "open-source" -> "open source", "FireFox" -> "Firefox")


[09:46] <passiveobserver> Avihay: ok in cygwin now I could make emacs work right-to-left  - nice. thanks
[09:47] <Avihay> I, umm, didn't do anything
[09:48] <passiveobserver> Avihay: ah, no, I got some tips from #emacs chan
[09:48] <passiveobserver> didn't think to ask it in #emacs by myself
[09:48] <passiveobserver> guess some hebrew using dudes are there
[09:49] <Avihay> passiveobserver:  well, http://xkcd.com/378/
[15:31] <Egbert9e9> sigh
[15:36] <demon^eye> Egbert9e9,  : are u here?
[15:36] <Egbert9e9> i am there
[15:36] <demon^eye> lol :D
[15:37] <demon^eye> i have weird issue with linux
[15:37] <demon^eye> some times , after 1 day its on while watching youtube clip its loose syn ..
[15:38] <demon^eye> logout  -> login solved it
[15:38] <demon^eye> any idea what it is?
[15:39] <Egbert9e9> loses syn? what do you mean
[15:39] <demon^eye> BTW i install "Ubuntu restricted extras" maybe that can help?
[15:39] <demon^eye> מאבד סיכרון בין הדיבור לווידאו
[15:39] <demon^eye> בין הסאונד  לווידאו
[15:39] <demon^eye> של שניה
[15:39] <demon^eye> או חצי
[15:40] <demon^eye> only logout -> login fix it
[15:40] <Egbert9e9> is it flash or gnash
[15:40] <demon^eye> if i  try to watch same moive clip from youtube over firefox its make wierd sound
[15:40] <Egbert9e9> i don't know
[15:40] <demon^eye> flash  i
[15:41] <demon^eye> yes wierd
[15:41] <demon^eye> i install "preload daemon" is that ok ?
[15:41] <Egbert9e9> i don't know
[15:41] <demon^eye> oww
[15:41] <demon^eye> :D
[15:41] <demon^eye> its a service
[15:42] <demon^eye> this package ok   ? "Ubuntu restricted extras" ?
[15:42] <demon^eye> i install it
[21:41] <max___> hi
[21:42] <max___> السلام عليكم
[21:42] <max___> صباح الخير
[23:36] <asw3> salam alikum
[23:36] <asw3> lol
[23:37] <asw3> sabah el hir
[23:37] <asw3> hahha
[23:37] <asw3> why i still know to read it


[00:01] <JanC> if I could only find where to look  :P
[00:01] <RAOF> You should just be able to start multiple X servers, IIUC.
[00:01] <JanC> each on its own monitor?
[00:02] <RAOF> Hm, probably.
[00:02] <RAOF> You'd want to read the fine Debian XRandR documentation to do that: http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12
[00:16] <JanC> I don't see anything useful in there right now, unless not using a 2nd display in one X server makes it magically available in another one...  ;)...
[00:24] <RAOF> That's what I'd try.
[00:24] <Sarvatt> its not really documented anywhere yet, the X on wayland implementation is http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~krh/xserver/log/?h=hosted and http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~krh/xf86-video-intel/commit/?h=hosted&id=e0acdbd6f5f7ef8d9fc5b61fbd53041f4d74da06 but he said he's separating out the hosted stuff to allow X on X too
[00:24] <Sarvatt> hah! I just got a 24000 euro quote for a week stay at the hotel in budapest where the next UDS is
[00:25] <Sarvatt> $33,321, yeesh
[00:32] <RAOF> ‽
[00:34] <JanC> huh, and I thought the UDS conference hotel in Belgium was expensive...  ;)
[00:35] <JanC> Sarvatt: that's for 1 person?
[00:36] <Sarvatt> thats for the presidential suite for 2 people, it hid the cheaper options :)
[00:36] <Sarvatt> 249 euros a night, hopefully we get a good group rate so I can take the wife
[00:37] <JanC> I mean, for that sort of money they should at least provide you with 10 personal slaves or something  ;)
[00:39] <JanC> I remember when I went to Lisbon in 2001 or 2002, I had a room with a double bed, bathroom & sat TV for about 12-13 euro...
[00:39] <bjsnider> and they gave you 10 personal slaves?
[00:40] <JanC> no, not for 12-13 euro, but when comparing that to 24000 euro  ;)
[00:40] <JanC> it's nly 2000 × more  :P
[02:38] <ScottK> stgraber: re ltsp backports - Any reason we couldn't just put those in Ubuntu Backports once they are tested?
[02:40] <ScottK> RAOF: re the problem we briefly discussed the other day with a monitor coming back on saying "out of range" - I disabled powering off the monitor as you suggested.  Last night my wife came back to it and the monitor (LCD actually) was powered on and said "out of range".  Further suggestions?
[02:41] <RAOF> ScottK: Oh, wow.  That's weird.
[02:42] <ScottK> This is Lucid Kubuntu, btw.  It was stable on Karmic.
[02:42] <ScottK> (same hardware)
[02:42] <RAOF> So, my next thought would be that a screensaver is crashing X, corrupting the card state, and causing the respawning X to go mad.
[02:42] <ScottK> In which case I should find something about a crash in the logs.
[02:43] <RAOF> Yes.
[02:43]  * ScottK will have a look about for that then.
[03:44] <ScottK> RAOF: Would an xorg.conf that was left over from Jaunty that still called for Option "AccelMethod" "EXA" and Option "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" be a potential source of "bad things"?
[03:44] <ScottK> No evidence of crashes, but I noticed that (along with setting dontzap) in the Xorg logs.
[03:44] <RAOF> Probably not.  EXA certainly wouldn't.
[03:45] <ScottK> That would just be a no-op at this point?
[03:45] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:45] <ScottK> I was thinking a reasonable next step would be to move the xorg.conf aside and see what, if anything, gets automatically generated.
[03:46] <RAOF> Nothing will get automatically generated, at least on the filesystem.
[03:46] <RAOF> Hm.
[03:46] <ScottK> OK, move it aside and see if it's absence helps.
[03:46] <ScottK> it's/its
[03:47] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/529083/ is the non-comment parts of what's there.
[03:47] <RAOF> So, the out of range error suggests that something has triggered modesetting, and this modesetting has failed.
[03:47] <ScottK> OK.
[03:48] <RAOF> Oh, intel!   I don't think that AccelMethod option is going to take effect.
[03:48] <ScottK> Other than power state changes what might trigger that when it's not in use?
[03:48] <RAOF> Monitor hotplug, if it mis-detects a hotplug event.
[03:49] <ScottK> Hmmmm.  That would show up in dmesg?
[03:49] <RAOF> I can't really think of anything else.  Unless a screensaver is requesting a resolution change, but that would seem silly.
[03:49] <ScottK> Last time it happened I didn't personally verify the power was still on.  Maybe she was mistaken.  I'll keep an eye on it.
[03:50] <ScottK> In KDE there's more than one way to control monitor power state (of course) and I may have missed something.
[03:52] <ScottK> RAOF: Thanks for the feedback.
[03:52] <RAOF> Modesetting events won't turn up in dmesg unless you've got drm debug set; drm.debug=0x0e on the kernel commandline (or echoing to /sys/kernel/debug/dri/.../ at run time, I thikn) will set that.
[03:55] <stgraber> ScottK: yes, we could, though currently what we backported to lucid isn't even in natty yet (it's a bzr snapshot from upstream). I'd prefer to wait for something stable to hit natty first (with an actual upstream version number), then backport that.
[04:18] <RAOF> Well, that's pretty good.  30MiB on-disc saving in mesa!
[04:29] <RAOF> Now the obvious caveat: does it still work? :)
[04:32] <RAOF> Hm, and there's more to be had if gallium is added.
[15:17] <ripps> does anybody know how make only 1 monitor my desktop, and the second only populated with widgets?
[15:37] <ripps> How about starting X only on my DVI monitor and leaving my VGA at a VT?
[15:38] <jcristau> can't do that.
[15:38] <ripps> why?
[15:39] <ripps> I just want a fullscreen terminal on my second monitor
[18:32] <bryceh> ripps, ooh that'd be neat
[18:33] <bryceh> ripps, sounds like a feature that'd have to be implemented in the kernel


[13:41] <Fallen> youngbin: Added an entry for what you're doing at COSCUP, let me know if you want any changes! https://events.canonical.com/event/29/
 "youngbin: Added an entry for..." <-  Wow, thanks!
[16:52] <fenris[m]> thanks Fallen


 @ONeZetty, What phone is that??
 Nexus 4 with special Bluetooth keyboard.
 How do you clear your stats that show up on the welcome screen. I uninstalled telegram on it but it's still showing up
 @ONeZetty, 😆Ahh okay I thought it was a completely new ported phone. Never actually held a nexus4
 @ONeZetty, [Edit] 😆Ahh okay I thought it was a completely new ported phone. Never actually held a nexus 4
 Hahaha sorry 🙏🏼
 @ONeZetty, The N4 is still a pretty device
 @AlexanderPlaza, You can disable the stats in privacy settings in system settings
 @dohbee, I still want the stats I just want to clear them
 So far 16.04 is pretty stable. Even telegram notifcations are working nicely. I just wish I could enable dark keyboard or theme for the phone for my eyes.
 There was a trick to enable a global dark theme but it breaks the UI in several places (black text on black background etc). Also tbe keyboard doesn't follow I think
 Is there going to be Q&A this saturday?
 Yes
 \o/
 Media player bug in both 16.04 and 15.04  …  mix of blue and red everywhere while playing video … My device name: hammerhead
 Morning. Just wanted to say thank you for the nice work done with 16.04. I finally installed it a few days ago and it has worked flawlessly since then. Thank you!!
 @John_athan, that's a long time known issue for Nexus 5...sadly....
 @Javacookies, Any other device having same issue
 @Javacookies, But UTmedia works fine????
 not sure, I only have a Nexus 5 and bq E5 on which video works fine
 UTmedia works because it uses the web video player
 @John_athan, this issue might be related to libhybris ... or ffmpeg or gstreamer if it uses it
 something got merged in libhybris related to BGRA
 recently
 When I open picture through file manager, gallery app creates duplicate of that  image and opens it and it is very frustrating that I have to delete it manually
 [Edit] When I open picture through file manager, gallery app creates duplicate of that  image in gallery app and opens it and it is very frustrating that I have to delete it manually
 that's a problem I think with content hub … in the rebooted file manager, you can preview images and videos without opening them in other apps
 (Photo, 640x640) https://irc.ubports.com/vJ0IAg0I.png
 Sorry, I didn't want to send that photo
[09:27] <ubptgbot> <Maikel Olie> @F_P_S, Jeep, here also running smooth. Thanks for the great effort!
 @John_athan, This is by design, that was a choice made by Canonical. And we cannot change this easily
 @Flohack, The design always contemplated some form of hard linking option in the future, but that never happened.
 @Flohack, And where are stored these copys exactly? Or are there linked?
 @Flohack, [Edit] And where are stored these copys exactly? Or are they linked?
 They are copied into each click apps cache probably, except the high level folders Pictures, Videos etc, they should actually be available to all apps
 Ok
 So try to use those folders whenever possible
 Guys.. My nexus 5 is stuck on google logo right after completion of installation
 @chebykinn, Did you fix it?
 Yes, I wrote in Welcome & Install group
 So did you find any solution?
 One second, I need to recall what I did
 Yes please
 Well, I just wiped everything, and ran installation when my phone was booted in android
 @chebykinn, Did you check the wipe option?
[12:12] <ubptgbot> S Kerkhof was added by: S Kerkhof
 Yes
[12:30] <ubptgbot> <S Kerkhof> Thank you kindly for accepting me into this group.
 Welcome Steff !!! Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 [Edit] Welcome Steff !!! Check this out for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
[12:34] <ubptgbot> <Steff Meister> Thanks Hugo!
 judging by your name you might also be interested in our Dutch language group https://t.me/UBports_NL
[12:35] <ubptgbot> <Steff Meister> Yes, my friend also recommended me that one, I'll join it ! Thanks for the link
[12:36] <ubptgbot> <Steff Meister> Could you please give me the Fairphone 2/UbuntuTouch link ? I can't seem to find it
 i would, but i don't have it either, even though i am in that group🙃
 i can't invit you either, but i'll see if i can find one who can
 Well the link has to be somewhere, enough spam bits join the group
 😅
 [Edit] Well the link has to be somewhere, enough spam bots join the group
 https://telegram.me/joinchat/AI_ukwlaB6KCsteHcXD0jw
 hah i was just looking for you👍
 @wouterx, Curious to know why there is a different group for that phone?
 if i recall correctly, interest for UT on the FP2 spiked on the Fairphone forums and cummunity right as Ubports was still getting organised. it started as something on it's own but got assimilated by Ubports community
 i'm not aware of more device specific groups
 but then again i don't know if other devices have their own dedicated community like Fairphone does
 Well, Fairphoners meet regularly in several European countries 😉
[16:51] <ubptgbot> skellington was added by: skellington
 @skellington, Hi Skellington. To read more about UBports you can check here  … https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Is account-polld still a component on the system? I think I might want to extend it to where I wanted it to be but was told not to as it was a temporary solution :-P
 unfortunately it is still there, yes
 heh, it wouldn't be if everyone did push notifications 😊
 it probably would be
 I actually want to add hook support so every click could get a time slot for polling
 that's already there
 and allow for a default provider (think alternatives entry) for twitter and gmail
 @dohbee oh really? I am talking about hooking into account-polld and not the push notification client (which I know is there)
 yes
 in any case, where does the account-polld code live?
 it's not really done the best way though
 but it's something apps can abuse to do background processing stuff (there are a couple that do it)
 I'll see if I can refactor; account-polld is originally 2 weeks of code at most (where most of it was learning the twitter and gmail APIs)
 https://github.com/ubports/account-polld
 I wonder why dekko doesn't have notifications then
 dekko does have notifications
 or maybe only dekko2 does?
 i forget
 hmm, I only base this out of people complaining that it needed to have that "live in the background" exception
 https://github.com/ubports/account-polld/tree/master/click-hook
 there's the hook
 i think the way it does the exec and manages the lifecycle needs to be fixed
 but meh
 oh wow, I have last touched that in "Mar 17, 2015", so many commits afterwards
 yeah, language even changed from go to c++
 but the hook in python... that could be slow too
 eh, the hook just runs when the package is installed
 Quick questions, is there a build for the oneplus 3t available?
 it is not yet a supported device, no
 Hmmmm 🤔
 Ok thank you
 iirc, that's the device that was going to be ported in the livestream porting marius was going to do, but i think that hasn't happened yet
 I have a oneplus one with ubuntu touch on it but I would like to use it with my main device
 I remember trying to port for the nexus 6 but never got anywhere with that sadly


[09:06] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Packageset: Added qtxdg-tools to lubuntu in lunar
 *drops a brick on @tsimonq2 for reasons*
[15:57] <arraybolt3> Yikes, didn't realize that code block was going to come over looking like that, probably should do code blocks on the other homeserver.
 FYI, Qt 5.15.7 transition landing in lunar proposed
 some lxqt things will have been rebuilt as part of that
[17:17] <tsimonq2> Qool
[17:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Can I hand the GUI part of this over to you? I'm not familiar enough with lubuntu-upgrader's code to be able to get the fix_incomplete_install() call to plug into the UI and update the progress bar and all that cool stuff.
[17:26] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean I probably could do it with enough work, but you already know how this works.
[17:27] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm about to test the prototype before having us do that, but that's what I'm thinking. Right now the fix_incomplete_install() call is just going to run before the rest of everything.
[18:17] <arraybolt3> Uploaded the new test build of lubuntu-update-notifier to a PPA for testing. (Also, wow, being made a Lubuntu Developer gave me all sorts of fancy new buttons in the bug tracking UI! :P This is kinda fun!)
 "Simon Quigley: Can I hand the..." <- Certainly
[19:40] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: Thanks. Still fighting with a PPA and other stuff to get the POC fix working, so bear with me.
[19:41] <tsimonq2> Fair warning, I'll be mostly AFK until Saturday afternoon, I'll put details in -members. I can still firefight absolute emergencies but would prefer others take that on for the time being
[22:34] <arraybolt3[m]> With regard to lubuntu-update-notifier:
[22:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Our plan of using Pre-Depends to get lubuntu-update-notifier to install SDDM appears to be a failure. In my testing, SDDM insists on installing itself first (causing the problematic prompt).
[22:35] <arraybolt3[m]> I have tried simply pre-depending on lubuntu-update-notifier in lubuntu-desktop, I have tried pre-depending on a particular version of lubuntu-update-notifier (Pre-Depends lubuntu-update-notifier (>= 0.5.1), both have failed.
[22:36] <arraybolt3[m]> My PPA currently has a version of lubuntu-update-notifier that attempts to kill lubuntu-upgrader and aptd upon configuration, indiscriminately, as a test. However, using both lubuntu-upgrader and apt has revealed that the code isn't called until it's too late.
[22:37] <arraybolt3[m]> The PPA, for those who are interested, is https://launchpad.net/~arraybolt3/+archive/ubuntu/lubuntu-upgrader-test. (WARNING: If you enable that PPA, it will break your ability to update your system as a result of my postinst script. Don't enable this on a system you care about, like really don't. It's intended for a Lubuntu Jammy VM.)
[22:38] <arraybolt3[m]> So, if my Pre-Depends line in lubuntu-meta isn't wrong (and I don't think it is), this solution will not work.
[22:38] <arraybolt3[m]> So, anyone else have ideas? Should I take this to #ubuntu-devel and ask for help there?
[22:39] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't think this qualifies as an absolute emergency, no servers are on fire, nothing's hacked, etc., but this is pretty bad.)
[22:52] <arraybolt3[m]> At this point, the best solution I can think of is to try and hold back SDDM until the release of 22.04.2, at which point the fix will be in the ISO. When that happens, hopefully everyone who's using Lubuntu will have the updated updater, and things will go smoothly. Anyone who doesn't have the new updater by that time will have neglected to update their system for a while, at which point they will hopefully either force-shutdown
[22:52] <arraybolt3[m]> the system and try to update via the command line, or they will chalk up the issue to having not updated in a while and will simply reinstall from 22.04.2, which will fix the problem. That won't cover those who keep installing from 22.04.1, but hopefully that will be the vast minority of users.
[22:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (And of course if something comes through that causes this bug to surface other than SDDM, then we're toast, but it took two or more years for this to surface so hopefully this is a rare enough occurrence that we'll be OK.)
[22:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Anyway, for now I'm out of ideas for a seamless solution here. I'm going to tackle $PERSONAL_LIFE business and then I guess work on other areas of development that need help.
[22:55]  * arraybolt3[m] goes afk, will read backlog when I get back if there is any
[23:16] <arraybolt3[m]> There actually is one more solution, but it would require cooperation from the rest of the Ubuntu developers.
[23:16] <arraybolt3[m]> We maintain Focal, Jammy, and Kinetic VMs, which we upgrade daily, including proposed updates, while the lubuntu-upgrader version in use is the problematic one. If we encounter a freeze in any one of those VMs, we mark whatever SRU is in progress as verification-failed and ask for the SRU's creator to do something to work around the issue (detect Lubuntu and display a "There's problems, here's how to unbreak them" message? Or
[23:16] <arraybolt3[m]> perhaps they can use a method of updating the file in question that doesn't result in the problematic prompt?). We would do this on a daily basis until Kinetic goes EOL (at which point Jammy will be a point release or two ahead). Then we can consider the problem fixed. This will reduce the number of people who are affected, and allow things to go smoothly. We will have to coordinate that with the rest of the Ubuntu development
[23:16] <arraybolt3[m]> team, but I think that's an even better solution than the above. (It still won't help with people who have problematic updates in packages that aren't in Lubuntu by default, but at least the Lubuntu packageset will be guarded.
[23:17] <arraybolt3[m]>  * There actually is one more solution, but it would require cooperation from the rest of the Ubuntu developers.
[23:17] <arraybolt3[m]> We maintain Focal, Jammy, and Kinetic VMs, which we upgrade daily, including proposed updates, while the lubuntu-upgrader version in use is the problematic one. If we encounter a freeze in any one of those VMs, we mark whatever SRU is in progress as verification-failed and ask for the SRU's creator to do something to work around the issue (detect the bad version of lubuntu-upgrader and display a "There's problems, here's how to
[23:17] <arraybolt3[m]> unbreak them" message? Or perhaps they can use a method of updating the file in question that doesn't result in the problematic prompt? Or maybe even just specify a Breaks against the bad version of lubuntu-upgrader so that the good version gets installed?). We would do this on a daily basis until Kinetic goes EOL (at which point Jammy will be a point release or two ahead). Then we can consider the problem fixed. This will reduce
[23:17] <arraybolt3[m]> the number of people who are affected, and allow things to go smoothly. We will have to coordinate that with the rest of the Ubuntu development team, but I think that's an even better solution than the above. (It still won't help with people who have problematic updates in packages that aren't in Lubuntu by default, but at least the Lubuntu packageset will be guarded.
[23:24] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: I can only wholesale delay the whole SRU, so that's going to affect Kinetic users as well.
[23:25] <Eickmeyer> What you're doing is asking me to delay this until February.
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Good point. If Breaks works, though, we have a total solution for this one particular scenario, and hopefully won't have any more scenarios to deal with (and we'll have an easy way out of any other scenarios that come up).
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah I'd really, really like to avoid that.
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> (Delaying until February I mean.)
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Thus the Breaks idea.
[23:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Which is what I'm going to try next, once I finish some other business I have to attend to.
[23:26] <arraybolt3[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I think we all want to avoid that if at all possible.
[23:26] <Eickmeyer> And Breaks is going to land you in a world of hurt with fresh installations.
[23:26] <arraybolt3[m]> How come? If the fixed version of lubuntu-update-notifier is available, won't apt be able to figure it out?
[23:26] <Eickmeyer> Race condition. Which one gets installed first?
[23:27] <arraybolt3[m]> apt has all of the info to avoid installing the wrong one first.
[23:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Whether it uses all that info or not, dunno, will test.
[23:28] <arraybolt3[m]> "When one binary package declares that it breaks another, dpkg will refuse to allow the package which declares Breaks to be unpacked unless the broken package is deconfigured first, and it will refuse to allow the broken package to be reconfigured." So apt can just deconfigure the bad lubuntu-update-notifier, install the good one, then install SDDM or whatever else. At which point the postinst script actually will help.
[23:28] <Eickmeyer> That's a good point, basically just to buy time until you get it figured out.
[23:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or it could decide to deconfigure the bad lubuntu-update-notifier, install SDDM, and hang up, leaving lubuntu-update-notifier uninstalled, which would look even more broken.)
[23:29] <Eickmeyer> And that's a good theory too.
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> "This use of Breaks will inform higher-level package management tools that the broken package must be upgraded before the new one."
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (From the Debian policy manual.)
[23:29] <Eickmeyer> What about Conflicts?
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> The full paragraph is "Normally a Breaks entry will have an “earlier than” version clause; such a Breaks is introduced in the version of an (implicit or explicit) dependency which violates an assumption or reveals a bug in earlier versions of the broken package, or which takes over a file from earlier versions of the package named in Breaks. This use of Breaks will inform higher-level package management tools that the broken
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> package must be upgraded before the new one."
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Eh, Conflicts is too strong I think.
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I think this is *exactly* what Breaks is intended for.
[23:30]  * arraybolt3 keeps using the Reply feature in Element and it's making things look ewird
[23:30] <Eickmeyer> I say give it a shot in a PPA and see how it goes.
[23:30] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, it looks like you're replying to yourself.
[23:31] <arraybolt3> Yeah. I'm trying to reference things I said earlier and it's just making a mess :P
[23:31] <arraybolt3> OK, will test some more! Thank you guys for your patience and help!
[23:31]  * arraybolt3 afk


[00:36] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-installer (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.3 => 0.4] (no packageset)
[21:18] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: accepted edubuntu-installer [source] (lunar-proposed) [0.4]


[00:03] <scorch> it was automatically created when it happened
[00:08] <valorie> ok, cool
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> seems like my bug gonna be taking care of, im happy :p
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-says-ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-will-come-with-boot-speed-boost-519498.shtml
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1742063
[04:29] <flocculant> :)
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> flocculant: hey mate, did you solve the xubuntu 32 thing?
[04:30] <flocculant> not sure - it's possibly just me ... I'm awesome at finding things no-one else does :D
[04:31] <lotuspsychje> ah, same goes for me...bugging out with different systems is always cool to find stuff no one else finds
[04:31] <flocculant> :)
[04:31] <lotuspsychje> flocculant: join #ubuntu-discuss too mate, all volunteers are there
[04:31] <flocculant> yea seen it
[16:08] <iresf> problem :  i installed ubuntu 18.04 on a laptop with radeon R5 graphic card    and then i install mesa on it after upgrading mouse click doese not  work but in recovery mode there is no problem


[11:15] <ikonia> does anyone know what happened to ubuntu-tv, is it officially "dead" now ?
[11:16] <cfhowlett> "convergence"??
[11:16] <ikonia> I don't know
[11:16] <ikonia> it's still listed on the website, but no updates, and it just seems in no-mans land
[11:16] <ikonia> eg: used to want developer input, now seems to be all gone
[13:08] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[18:50] <dax> ikonia: last i heard, it was on pause until phone stuff is sorted