[05:17] <okee> I am trying to install Ubuntu and need help.  I am half way through the installation and getting an error message, adivising that the bootloader install failed, and I am being given some options: 1) continue without a bootloader, 2) cancel the installation, 3) chose a different device to install the bootloader on.  What do I do?
[05:27] <okee> Well I changed the install to \dev\sda3, and only windows comes up at boot time.  What did I do wrong?  Does this mean I need to reinstall ubuntu?
[12:37] <duanedesign> 'lo all


[02:26] <roasted> I can't help but to wonder... wouldn't it be possible to intentionally derail Ubuntu GNOME from the regular Ubuntu release cycle?
[02:26] <roasted> as in, release Ubuntu GNOME 2 months after each Ubuntu release?
[02:27] <roasted> and therefore integrate the latest Gnome into UG?
[02:27] <roasted> aka - release Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 as 13.12 (december) with 3.10 natively
[02:27] <roasted> just a thought/question/whynotatleastask
[03:27] <manuelcua> Hello everyone
[07:18] <flo1546796> hi everyone, anyone knows a way to setup virtualboard execution on textfield focus event ?
[07:20] <flo1546796> OR, is it exist a deamon/eventlistener that can catch it ?
[07:22] <flo1546796> (tool or script module)
[08:03] <ochosi> robert_ancell: do you have advice on what a lightdm-greeter should do in this case? (see last comment there): https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1226509
[08:03] <ochosi> robert_ancell: (sorry for pinging you bout that, but we'd like to fix that before Saucy gets released)
[08:04] <robert_ancell> ochosi, I think you should treat this as "no" but I'm not sure. If you are running a policykit agent you might be able to handle this?
[08:05] <ochosi> robert_ancell: hmm, well i guess the idea is that it's "no", but not allowing users to reboot while shutdown is allowed seems weird
[08:05] <ochosi> not sure i know enough about polkit (so far the greeter did everything through lightdm)
[08:05] <robert_ancell> ochosi, agreed. I don't know enough about what the power management stack is doing though
[08:06] <ochosi> robert_ancell: any idea who i could talk to about that? or would you, if we don't get to a solution, recommend treating it as "yes" as a workaround in Saucy to allow users to reboot?
[08:07] <robert_ancell> ochosi, you could ask on the systemd mailing list
[08:07] <ochosi> robert_ancell: ok, will do. thanks for taking a look!
[08:09] <robert_ancell> ochosi, I just had a quick look at the systemd source (src/login/logind-dbus.c) and challenge is returned when policykit decides you need some additional authentication to perform the action
[08:10] <robert_ancell> so it must be due to the policykit configuration being too restrictive or something like that
[08:10] <ochosi> robert_ancell: yeah, i know, but it has different values for shutdown and reboot
[08:10] <robert_ancell> ochosi, there must be different policy somewhere
[08:11] <ochosi> robert_ancell: yeah, but is that not what i suggested in my comment on the bugreport?
[08:12]  * robert_ancell reads
[08:12] <robert_ancell> yes :)
[08:12] <ochosi> i just don't get why power-off-multiple-sessions and reboot-multiple-sessions get different policy-settings
[08:12] <ochosi> so as they do, i'm 1) wondering "why?" and 2) shall i ignore/override that
[08:13] <robert_ancell> ochosi, I'm surprised the "challenge" is returned to the d-bus caller. As I understood it normally policykit is called by the daemon that needs it and only success/failure is returned to the caller (after a long delay which user authentication occurs)
[08:13] <robert_ancell> so the caller has no idea if policykit is involved at all
[08:14] <ochosi> this seems to be new with logind...
[08:14] <darkxst> ricotz, can I get whatever you have done so far towards mozjs24?
[08:16] <robert_ancell> ochosi, yes, never seen it before
[08:16]  * ochosi scratches head
[08:17] <robert_ancell> ochosi, sorry for not having the time to respond on the bug
[08:17] <ochosi> robert_ancell: no problem, i understand you have other things at hand
[08:18] <ochosi> robert_ancell: i'm just wondering whether i just override that as unity-greeter allows users to reboot in the same scenario (but it seems indicator-session works in different ways)
[08:18] <robert_ancell> ochosi, I think indicator-session accesses the interfaces directly (LightDM just provides them as a convenience)
[08:18] <robert_ancell> It might be worth seeing if they access them differently
[08:18] <ochosi> robert_ancell: yeah, that's what i thought, but it should still get the same return-values i would think
[12:59] <manuelcua> Hi everyone, I have a question
[13:00] <manuelcua> In the install process of the daily build, it doesn't connect to the wired Internet connection, if I put any other install ISO it works, how can I test what's wrong?
[13:01] <manuelcua> I guess I'm going to send the question to the mailing list..
[14:34] <roasted> I think it's time to fire up 13.10 and upgrade to 3.10 and see what's up
[16:29] <blueMix> Hello
[16:29] <roasted> hi
[16:29] <blueMix> How can i upgrade my Gnome 3.08 to 3.10 in Ubuntu Gnome?
[16:30] <roasted> you have to be on Ubuntu GNOME 13.10
[16:30] <roasted> whcih is not released yet. It's in beta.
[16:30] <blueMix> Aha, i thought the Desktop environment is seperated
[16:31] <roasted> according to the devs, too much has cahnged in Gnome 3.10 to make the transition easy via PPA, so it's going to require Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 for that
[16:31] <blueMix> Ok, thanks
[16:31] <roasted> This isn't anything specific to Ubuntu. openSUSE informed me that they are not going to pull 3.10 in via a REPO/PPA system in openSUSE 12.3, but instead, will wait until openSUSE 13.1 to release it with Gnome 3.10.
[16:32] <roasted> in short, run a beta distro or you'll have to wait until it's officially released on the distro of choice.
[16:32] <blueMix> i prefer to wait
[16:33] <blueMix> i saw a video about Gnome 3.10 on YouTube, it has been much enhanced
[16:33] <roasted> yeah, it looks really nice
[16:34] <blueMix> are you using Ubuntu Gnome?
[16:35] <roasted> not at the moment, but I am looking to reinstall it.
[16:35] <roasted> I had a *lot* of problems with Nautilus
[16:35] <blueMix> then what distro are you using now?
[16:36] <roasted> around that time elementary OS came out so I checked it out and have been on it ever since.
[16:36] <roasted> I like eOS a lot but I have a few minor frustrations with it. Nothing major though, nothing at all like the Nautilus problem I had before on Ubuntu GNOME.
[16:36] <roasted> but I'm hoping that's fixed, or else I'll install another file manager (Nemo perhaps) and be done with it.
[16:36] <blueMix> what kind of problems you have with natilus?
[16:37] <roasted> I work with file servers *a lot*
[16:37] <roasted> when transferring data, it would lock up, hard
[16:37] <roasted> it literally made nautilus unusable for my needs, 100%
[16:38] <blueMix> work with file servers? am wondering how facebook storage big is? :)
[16:38] <roasted> file servers at work and home
[16:38] <roasted> I'm talking like, transfer 200 MB of data and it would freeze
[16:38] <roasted> it was ridiculous
[16:38] <roasted> a dev told me it was really a GVFS bug that was fixed, but I couldn't find confirmation on *exactly* what version fixed it
[16:39] <bjsnider> no problems with file transfer here
[16:39] <roasted> of course, that's how it always works :P
[16:39] <blueMix> do you use ext4 as your file system on file servers?
[16:39] <roasted> I do at home, yes. at work I'm not entirely sure what is on the array.
[16:39] <roasted> but at work we have about 6 file servers, all act up with nautilus.
[16:39] <roasted> wired or wireless
[16:40] <blueMix> are working in a file sharing company?
[16:40] <roasted> in short, I concluded nautilus/gvfs/whatever was unusable at the time, so I moved on to things that worked, which was eOS and their default file manager Marlin
[16:40] <roasted> no, I work for a large public school district.
[16:40] <bjsnider> marlin? hahaha
[16:40] <blueMix> eOS, let me YouTube it; the first time heard of it
[16:41] <bjsnider> what is it a fork of dolphin?
[16:41] <roasted> bjsnider: hey, ask me if Marlin worked. Then, ask me if Nautilus worked.
[16:41] <roasted> not sure
[16:41] <roasted> it's definitely GTK based
[16:41] <roasted> eOS is very GTK entrenched
[16:41] <bjsnider> well dolphin is qt
[16:41] <bjsnider> i'm assuming they're related due to the naming scheme
[16:41] <blueMix> eOS, you mean elementary OS?
[16:42] <roasted> blueMix: JupiterBroadcasting did a nice spread on elementary OS Luna. It's very, very simplistic - even moreso than Gnome these days.
[16:42] <bjsnider> the nautilus fork is called nemo, which is following a train of thought
[16:42] <roasted> yes blueMix
[16:43] <roasted> bjsnider: yeah, I might fire up Nemo once I get UbuGnome going again
[16:43] <roasted> we'll see though
[16:43] <roasted> either way it sounded like it was a GVFS bug, so it wouldn't be Nautilus specific I would think
[16:43] <bjsnider> nothing wrong with nautilus though, so forks aren't necessary
[16:43] <roasted> but eOS is Ubuntu 12.04 based, so I can only imagine I'd be working off of a different version of GVFS
[16:44] <roasted> bjsnider: Nemo makes a truckload of sense given the recent neutering of Nautilus
[16:44] <roasted> I cannot stress that enough.
[16:44] <blueMix> where you mean with GVFS?
[16:44] <roasted> blueMix: GVFS is the gnome virtual file system, which is the middle man of handling file transfers. It's critical GVFS performs without flaw to make file transfers happen.
[16:45] <bjsnider> it's probably that he's transferring between smb or nfs file systems
[16:45] <roasted> I am
[16:45] <roasted> smb
[16:46] <blueMix> did you try KDE?
[16:46] <roasted> lol
[16:46] <roasted> many times
[16:47] <blueMix> Dolphin?
[16:47] <roasted> I liked dolphin actually
[16:47] <blueMix> why you didn't report the problem in GVFS to them?
[16:47] <roasted> KDE does not use GVFS
[16:47] <roasted> GVFS = Gnome virtual file system
[16:47] <blueMix> i know, i mean when using natilus
[16:48] <roasted> why would I report a GVFS issue to KDE when they do not use GVFS, nor Nautilus
[16:48] <blueMix> no, i mean when you're using natilus and have the bug in GVFS, KDE is out :)
[16:49] <blueMix> i know, i entangled my question :)
[16:55] <roasted> so if I want the best 3.10 experience currently available, do I need gnome3, staging, and next? or just gnome3 and next?
[16:56] <bjsnider> so many ppas
[16:56] <roasted> I know :/
[16:56] <bjsnider> you probably need the upcoming fedora release, or wait for debian
[16:56] <roasted> wait for debian?
[16:57] <roasted> I'd like to try 3.10 before my 2 month old graduates college...
[16:57] <bjsnider> in contrast to ubuntu there are lots of guys working on debian packaging of gnome
[16:57] <roasted> so you're suggesting I should not use ubuntu gnome?
[17:00] <bjsnider> they go slowly because they have a lot of rules to follow and whatnot
[17:02] <roasted> yeah, I get that
[17:02] <roasted> and I respect that
[17:02] <roasted> but it's also the exact reason I won't use debian
[17:02] <roasted> anyway, back to the original question... which PPAs do I need for 13.10/3.10?
[17:13] <roasted> ;/
[18:39] <bjsnider> http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.10-status.html
[20:45] <mrpink462> Good evening and firstly thanks for your great work!
[20:48] <SonikkuAmerica> mrpink462: Who are you talking to, all of us?
[21:22] <manuelcua> Good evening!
[21:22] <SonikkuAmerica> Evening!
[21:24] <manuelcua> I'm very surprised that Gnome 3.8 is very stable, in deed it needs some polish but I've been very happy with it
[21:25] <SonikkuAmerica> Have you tried 3.10 yet?
[21:30] <manuelcua> Yes, but only on test machine, so I haven't been able to stress it
[21:31] <SonikkuAmerica> Ah. Haven't been able to get my hands on it yet, waiting for 13.10 to stabilize
[21:31] <manuelcua> I have three machines, and two of them are for testing.. the main one is for programming so I need it to be stable
[21:33] <SonikkuAmerica> I'm a bleeding-edge proponent, primary OS on a machine that used to run Windows 8 (UEFI and all)
[21:37] <manuelcua> nice, did you have to change the bios to legacy?
[21:39] <SonikkuAmerica> manuelcua: Nope! Didn't have to change a thing, in fact. Worked directly with Secure Boot, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.
[21:43] <manuelcua> Do you use Facebook chat with empathy?
[21:46] <SonikkuAmerica> I do. (Or try to... not one attempt with either Facebook or Jabber has worked since I installed any *buntu on this thing.)
[21:46] <SonikkuAmerica> In fact, I'm using Empathy to chat with you right now over IRC.
[21:47] <manuelcua> What did you use for that, I tried to find the account but I guess there's something else that needs to be installed
[21:47] <manuelcua> Before with Pidgin it woked out of the box..
[21:48] <manuelcua> and facebook hahaha
[21:48] <SonikkuAmerica> It still does, Pidgin. Xubuntu and Lubuntu come stock with it
[21:49] <manuelcua> I think there's a xchat with gnome integration.. I'm going to try that.
[21:49] <SonikkuAmerica> It's called xchat-gnome, and it's just XChat with a clunky wrapper.
[21:49] <manuelcua> Ahh.. meh..
[21:50] <SonikkuAmerica> In Empathy, to connect to an IRC network, press F4, click the little + sign, and select IRC from the drop-down menu near the top of the dialog box.
[21:51] <manuelcua> turns out it wasnt installed, I just installed it from atp
[21:51] <manuelcua> apt
[22:08] <manuelcua> Nope could not get it to work on empathy
[22:10] <SonikkuAmerica> manuelcua: Hmmm....
[22:10] <SonikkuAmerica> SonikkuAmerica: Do you have telepathy-idle installed?
[22:11] <manuelcua> let me se
[22:12] <manuelcua> Yes I do
[22:13] <SonikkuAmerica> manuelcua: Good... account-plugin-irc ?
[22:13] <manuelcua> yep
[22:14] <manuelcua> Tomorrow at night I will install 3.10 to see how it works on my machine
[22:14] <manuelcua> most of the apps I use have to be downloaded anyways.. so I guess there's no harm
[22:15] <SonikkuAmerica> manuelcua: And it's not in the list of accounts from Empathy's menu (NOT Online Accounts)
[22:15] <SonikkuAmerica> ?
[22:16] <manuelcua> Yes it is, it just shows blank after I click it with a Done button on the side nothing more, and it does nothing hahaha
[22:16] <manuelcua> I removed it completely and installed it again and it didn't work..
[23:04] <menelkir> Upgrading to 13.10 via update-manager -d is sufficient to test and help debugging, right?


[20:00] <infinity> o/
[20:00] <mdeslaur> hi!
[20:01] <infinity> Looking at the last month of history, I think kees might have forsaken us.
[20:01] <infinity> (Though, looking at that month, it would seem I have too)
[20:01]  * stgraber waves
[20:01] <mdeslaur> heh, I was about to say the same thing :)
[20:02] <mdeslaur> ok, looks like kees is MIA, so I'll do the meeting
[20:02] <mdeslaur> #startmeeting
[20:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  7 20:02:09 2017 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:02] <mdeslaur> [topic] Apologies
[20:02] <mdeslaur> nobody every apologizes anymore, snif!
[20:02] <mdeslaur> [topic] Action review
[20:02] <infinity> mdeslaur: I'm sorry.
[20:02] <mdeslaur> heh
[20:03] <mdeslaur> infinity: "ACTION: infinity to ask maas team to prepare SRU exception policy à la CurtinUpdates"
[20:03] <mdeslaur> what's the status on that?
[20:03] <mdeslaur> and the other one: "ACTION: infinity to play with seed/maint-check changes on dogfood to build a new xenial release pocket for support length auditing (ETA: 16.04.3 release) "
[20:03] <infinity> MaaS Exception: I've lost context on this and need to double back and see if this is in their court our mine (well, the SRU team's) at this point (ie: are they ready for review).
[20:04] <infinity> support-status: This appears to be doing the right thing for 18.04.  If people concur that this is true, the same set of rules has been retroactively applied to 16.04 as well, but it requires a re-publish to take effect (which I still need to test on dogfood for potential gotchas)
[20:04] <mdeslaur> infinity: I'll take a look and will let you know
[20:04] <slangasek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MAASUpdates exists currently
[20:04] <slangasek> fwiw
[20:05] <slangasek> but is not linked/approved
[20:05] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, I know it exists, the last time I asked them about it, they said it was still a WIP.  Unless that was the second-last time I asked, and the last time they asked for a review, and I frogot about that. :P
[20:05] <slangasek> k
[20:05] <mdeslaur> slangasek: "ACTION: slangasek to investigate getting tagged ubuntu-community bugs automatically forwarded to technical-board, and if not feasible, fall back to DMB sending signed emails to list for ACL requests "
[20:05] <slangasek> still on my todo, backburnered
[20:06] <slangasek> currently the DMB has been sending emails, so I don't think this is blocking anything
[20:06] <slangasek> (if someone disagrees I'll juggle priorities)
[20:06] <mdeslaur> ok
[20:06] <mdeslaur> looks like nothing else on the agenda this week
[20:06] <mdeslaur> [topic] Mailing list archive
[20:06] <mdeslaur> nothing new except for some spammy spam spam
[20:06] <infinity> Spam!
[20:07] <mdeslaur> [topic] Community bugs
[20:07] <mdeslaur> no new bugs
[20:07] <mdeslaur> [topic] Next chair
[20:07] <mdeslaur> slangasek, with stgraber as backup
[20:08] <slangasek> ok
[20:08] <mdeslaur> [topic] AOB
[20:08] <infinity> Letting kees off the hook? :P
[20:08] <mdeslaur> I can write his name there forever, but if he never shows up...
[20:08] <infinity> Well, AOB, someone should ping kees.
[20:09]  * slangasek pencils in to chair the next TB meeting from kees's front lawn
[20:09] <mdeslaur> hehe
[20:09] <infinity> Oh right, someone lives very close to him.
[20:09] <infinity> *someone*
[20:09] <mdeslaur> I'll ask him what's up
[20:09] <infinity> And hangs out with him occasionally.
[20:09] <mdeslaur> Does anybody have anything else they would like to discuss?
[20:09] <slangasek> (with a boom box?  who can predict)
[20:10] <infinity> slangasek: Neither of your wives would appreciate the outcome of that.
[20:10] <infinity> mdeslaur: I suspect we're done. :P
[20:10] <slangasek> heh
[20:10] <mdeslaur> #endmeeting
[20:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  7 20:10:18 2017 UTC.
[20:10] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2017/ubuntu-meeting-2.2017-11-07-20.02.moin.txt
[20:10] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone
[20:10] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[20:10] <mdeslaur> absentees forgo the cake


[01:03] <hazmat> checking
[01:03] <hazmat> imbrandon, jujucharms.com is in ec2 fwiw
[01:04] <hazmat> imbrandon, i can hit omg as well
[02:13] <imbrandon> kk ty, kk ty
[02:13] <imbrandon> yea i could hit omg the whole time, but i cant use juju
[02:13] <imbrandon> for status or anything
[02:14] <imbrandon> but external monitors show fine, and i can hit the website as well , but i cant hit the bootstrap node with juju , wonder but because of dns errors not
[02:15] <imbrandon> net ones, well least not on the surface
[02:15] <imbrandon> i'll track it tomarrow if its still happening
[02:15] <imbrandon> dont feel like messin with it tonight and its not an emrngncy blah blah
[02:16] <imbrandon> ty for checking tho hazmat
[02:54] <hazmat> imbrandon, ping
[02:54] <hazmat> imbrandon, fair enough.. not tonight
[02:55] <hazmat> imbrandon, i'll be around a bit in the am tomorrow, then off on a plane, but i'd be happy to help debug
[03:42] <imbrandon> sounds good, yea my brain is about fried as far as anything productive
[03:42] <imbrandon> for the evening :)
[03:43] <imbrandon> i've been in my OSX boot playing in photoshop the last hour heh, bought the new cs6 version today
[03:44] <imbrandon> they drasticly droped the price on the creative suite , so it was a no brainer
[03:44] <imbrandon> its like a $30 a month subscription now ( optional ) instead of $1200 up front
[03:44] <imbrandon> and includes ALL the CS on and offline apps
[03:45] <imbrandon> smart move imho
[03:46] <imbrandon> if they would just port at leaste the online versions to linux ( the online apps are 98% as powerfull as the offline ones )
[03:46] <imbrandon> i would be set
[10:54] <arand> I'm getting juju FTBFS on current quantal, due to a bunch of failed test cases, is that something anyone would be able to confirm? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/juju/+bug/1017113
[10:54] <_mup_> Bug #1017113: FTBFS: Sveral tests fails <ftbfs> <quantal> <juju (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017113 >
[11:50] <imbrandon> errr
[11:50] <imbrandon> bholtsclaw@ares:~/Projects/local/charms/precise/nginx$ bzr push lp:~imbrandon/charms/nginx/trunk
[11:50] <imbrandon> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~imbrandon/charms/nginx/trunk/": : Cannot create branch at '/~imbrandon/charms/nginx/trunk'
[11:50] <imbrandon> :(
[12:36] <SpamapS> imbrandon: you need a series
[12:36] <imbrandon> ahh crap
[12:36] <imbrandon> ty
[12:45] <imbrandon> real fast tho, yea of nothing else at all lets steal that version showing trick, kinda slick AND solves the problem of parsing it possibly later
[12:45] <imbrandon> k , i'm out for a bit ... SpamapS ^^
[14:23]  * imbrandon just put the place holder site/design up on behalf of the php-fig group
[14:23]  * imbrandon does a little dance , sings a little song
[14:23] <imbrandon> heh
[14:24] <imbrandon> http://www.php-fig.org :) they are the group that made/makes like PSR-0 etc
[14:24] <imbrandon> e.g. the peps in python
[14:30] <SpamapS> oh
[14:30] <SpamapS> cool
[14:30] <SpamapS> wait, PEP?
[14:30] <SpamapS> I thought PHP had RFC's
[14:30] <imbrandon> like pep-8
[14:31] <imbrandon> rfc's and PSR's now there is only PSR-0 and -1 so far
[14:31] <imbrandon> thus me getting the chance to do the initial web :)
[14:32] <imbrandon> its a young group but has some heavy heavy weight behind it like drupal, wordpress zend zf2 symphony welll helll just about any php group or company has a voting member
[14:33] <imbrandon> fig is "framework interop group" and psr's are php standard resolutions or something, but makes sure all frameworks work togather and do shit the same way
[14:33] <imbrandon> and even if there is 5 ways to do something there is now a "right" way , or will be :)_
[14:33] <imbrandon> heh
[14:34] <SpamapS> Ok, so PSR's are just about php code
[14:34] <imbrandon> yea
[14:34] <SpamapS> where as the PHP RFC's are about php dev
[14:34] <SpamapS> cool
[14:34] <imbrandon> LIKE pep :)
[14:34] <imbrandon> well
[14:34] <imbrandon> its about interop
[14:34] <imbrandon> like psr-0 says how autoloaders need to work
[14:34] <imbrandon> and bare minimum they have to supoort etc
[14:35] <imbrandon> so i can use bits form zf framework with symphony now, like for real
[14:35] <imbrandon> and it autolaods
[14:35] <imbrandon> an extreem case of this will be when i can use a wordpress plugin on drupal
[14:35] <imbrandon> thats a goal, far far out but that level of crap from the ground up
[14:36] <imbrandon> and -1 talks about tabs and spances
[14:36] <imbrandon> and 2 spaces versus 4 etc
[14:36] <imbrandon> so its a mix
[14:37] <imbrandon> i think -3 thats in the works is covering Cacheing and standarinzing some Cache interfaces
[14:37] <imbrandon> i *think*
[14:38] <imbrandon> but yea in like less than 6 months its got evey major player behind it and like 300+ members
[14:47] <SpamapS> thats great
[14:47] <SpamapS> PHP is growing up
[14:47] <SpamapS> despite all the past predictions that it would eat itself
[14:47] <SpamapS> (I never subscribed to those predictions btw ;)
[14:59] <_mup_> Bug #1017113 was filed: Juju test suite fails sporadically due to low timeouts <ftbfs> <quantal> <juju:Confirmed> <juju (Ubuntu):Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017113 >
[15:00] <imbrandon> FRAK
[15:01] <imbrandon> i just did this whole function in JS
[15:01]  * imbrandon is working in a php file
[15:01] <imbrandon> bah, i need a cigarette and a mt dew, heads not right :)
[15:03] <imbrandon> SpamapS: there we go
[15:03] <imbrandon> http://cl.ly/HcuA
[15:03] <imbrandon> fully filled out with temp data and everything
[15:04] <SpamapS> so .. much.. white(black)space
[15:04] <imbrandon> till they decide what content they want heh :) or they dont like the look of it
[15:04] <imbrandon> thats a screenshot
[15:04] <imbrandon> the black is the website holding the screenshot
[15:04] <SpamapS> l
[15:04] <SpamapS> o
[15:04] <SpamapS> l
[15:04] <SpamapS> got it
[15:04] <imbrandon> and on your smaller monitor their wont be so much white
[15:04] <SpamapS> I'm also just having my first coffee even tho I've been up since 5am
[15:04] <imbrandon> i'm on a 24inch :)
[15:05] <imbrandon> heh
[15:05] <SpamapS> I'm on the 11"
[15:05] <imbrandon> heh
[15:05] <SpamapS> thats what s...
[15:06] <imbrandon> s ?
[15:06] <imbrandon> res ?
[15:06] <imbrandon> 1920x1080 x 3
[15:07] <imbrandon> no retna for me yet :)
[15:09] <imbrandon> okies, back in a bit, skipped the shower for breakfast instead this morning, not gonna put it off too long or i'll be all icky ... ewww yea, ok back in a bit
[16:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, about 3m40s on an x220 with ssd (samsung 830) with fsync off on zk
[16:16] <SpamapS> hazmat: yeah I'm about the same using eatmydata
[16:17] <SpamapS> hazmat: on the MBA
[16:17] <SpamapS> with "whatever the heck they use for SSD"
[16:17] <SpamapS> hazmat: hey, 'make check' doesn't seem to work for me
[16:18] <SpamapS> I have JUJU_TRUNK set...
[16:18] <SpamapS> make: *** [check] Error 1
[16:39] <hazmat> SpamapS, apple uses samsung and toshiba, pretty slow till this year afaik
[16:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, make check needs modified files committed
[16:40] <hazmat> hmm.. actually not committed
[16:41] <hazmat> make review checks committed changes on a branch
[16:41] <hazmat> most of those are ben's additions, i normally just use make coverage
[16:42] <imbrandon> yea the ssd's untill this last bactch from apple sucked
[16:42] <imbrandon> they are samsung mostly
[16:42] <imbrandon> but not they got some intel ones
[16:42] <imbrandon> but yea before these toy want to buy third party ram/ssd
[16:42] <imbrandon> ram is that damn hynix
[16:42] <imbrandon> bleh
[16:43] <hazmat> imbrandon, their still using samsung  from what i've read, but its the new 830 series controller, which is pretty fast (also what i use for my thinkpad)
[16:45] <hazmat> it doesn't do the write deamplification like the sandforce ones, and its not quite as good as the intels as background cleanup, but with trim OS support it works fairly well for me
[16:47] <hazmat> imbrandon, did your ec2 issues get resolved?
[16:50] <imbrandon> yea , well kinda
[16:50] <imbrandon> its a bug but i figured it out
[16:50] <imbrandon> now i forgot what it was but i made a note cuz i wanted to report it and let you know
[16:51] <imbrandon> ahh, the only 2 i've owned have been intels so far
[16:51] <imbrandon> i used 2 others but quickly took them back for write errors in the first week
[16:52] <imbrandon> ohh i know what it was now, the nodes got a new juju
[16:52] <imbrandon> but i had old local
[16:52] <imbrandon> and it kept looking like a dns error
[16:53] <imbrandon> but as sonon as i updated my local juju it was all good
[16:54] <hazmat> cool
[16:54] <hazmat> time to pack up and head to velocity then
[16:54] <imbrandon> cool cool, dont have too much fun, i plan to fix the docs this afternoon
[16:54] <imbrandon> so they should be all new and ready for yall
[16:55] <imbrandon> i wanted ot get my nginx pushed first tho ( i did get the first round pushed, so its atleast on LP now heh )
[16:55] <imbrandon> but still is missing a few hooks i need to complete
[16:56] <imbrandon> SpamapS: and the majority of it is in PHP heh :)
[16:56] <imbrandon> next one i think i'm gonna use ruby on but not chef/puppet, just ruby
[16:57] <imbrandon> just to kinda feel out the diffs
[16:59] <imbrandon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/charms/precise/nginx/trunk/view/head:/hooks/install
[17:01] <imbrandon> LP/logger head makes it all pink :(
[17:04] <imbrandon> you know what i realized just now, and now i see it i cant beleave no one else has
[17:04] <imbrandon> why do we do all these config-get's and put them into varables in every hook
[17:05] <imbrandon> why does juju not just put them in the env when the hook fires
[17:05] <imbrandon> its pretty much garenteed config-get will be called once, if not many times in a row when either they could config-get once at the top and split the json out
[17:06] <imbrandon> or none at all and juju could do it for us, repetitive boilerplate is not good, i started to make a "common.php" and was like wtf, why dont juju do this
[17:07] <imbrandon> SpamapS: ^^^ ( and m_3 / hazmat if yall arent on the road yet )
[17:10] <hazmat> its a little implicit
[17:10] <imbrandon> well env vars' it happens all the time for websites
[17:10] <hazmat> say you get a variable mismatch
[17:10] <imbrandon> the db conn info in the server env
[17:10] <hazmat> where's the error line
[17:11] <imbrandon> well i'm not saying that the config-get should die, just that it should prepoulate
[17:11] <imbrandon> the env
[17:11] <imbrandon> it almost has to anyhow i'm sure it loads it prior to the config-get call
[17:11] <imbrandon> like whne the hook fires
[17:11] <imbrandon> anyhow
[17:12] <hazmat> imbrandon, worth filing a bug/feature request for
[17:12] <imbrandon> anyhow, not saying its well thought out either, it just stuck me a few minutes ago :)
[17:12] <imbrandon> yea, i'll see where it goes ;)
[17:12] <imbrandon> only takes 5 min to fill out a LP page
[17:13] <imbrandon> its worth that
[17:16] <imbrandon> ZOMG !!! the new photoshop cs6 went gimp :( frak
[17:16] <imbrandon> its all multi windowd, man i knew i should have fired it up fist
[17:17] <imbrandon> damn the artwork, window chrome , icons , etc alll look gtk3/gimp
[17:23] <imbrandon> SpamapS: check this out, this is default like 5 seconds after it finsihed installing ( e.g. not a custom theme or something )
[17:23] <imbrandon> http://cl.ly/HbID
[17:23] <imbrandon> watch out tho, there might be alot of black round that one too hahaha j/k
[17:24] <imbrandon> but tell me that dont look gtk/gimpified
[17:24] <imbrandon> ps has always done its own unique UI , well untill now i guess
[19:28] <lifeless> is there bug open for getting secret key etc from the environment (e.g. AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID) ?
[19:37] <imbrandon> lifeless not that i'm aware, but i havent had prblems with that
[19:37] <lifeless> just thinking it would make 'get up and go' easier.
[19:37] <imbrandon> like you set it and then it cant get it ?
[19:37] <lifeless> sophisticated installs need partitioned credentials
[19:37] <imbrandon> ohh
[19:37] <imbrandon> ok i see what ya mean
[19:37] <imbrandon> i was thinking something diffrent
[19:38] <imbrandon> yea, that would make sese and would fall into line with the config-get i was talking about
[19:38] <lifeless> all the euca and aws tools, for intsance, read from the environment. (The actual environment, not environments.yaml)
[19:38] <imbrandon> yea
[19:38] <lifeless> I'll check for a bug
[19:38] <imbrandon> yea a couple two of my charms export those just for that
[19:38] <lifeless> so, looks like openstack just does noddy dns names
[19:39] <lifeless> rather than the mass assigned reverse-ip-prefix that ec2 does.
[19:39] <lifeless> which is why juju + internal openstack is so tedious, I suspect.
[19:39] <imbrandon> really ? i've been meaning to get the openstack a try on hpcloud the last few days just not made it that far yet
[19:39] <lifeless> production instances probably have some workaround
[19:40] <lifeless> but the code I'm reading so far depends on e.g. ldap DNS server integration
[19:40] <imbrandon> kinda was hoping to give it a go and then talk omgubuntu into moving maybe if it was solid
[19:40] <lifeless> which is way more complex
[19:40] <imbrandon> ahh
[19:40] <imbrandon> i run open directory local on my lan anyhow ( i have a osx box that acts as a pdc and uses open directory )
[19:41] <lifeless> see ./nova/network/ldapdns.py for instance
[19:41] <imbrandon> funny tho, no windows clients so really i could just use nis or whatevr but bah. i followed the gui setup when i set it up a few months ago
[19:42] <imbrandon> wasent really intended to be a "real server" when i set it up, was just testing osx server 10.8 and then i came to rely on it more and more, now i got to get a migration plan done at some point
[19:42] <imbrandon> heh
[19:43] <imbrandon> thats sad for my home network
[19:43] <imbrandon> lol
[19:43] <imbrandon> pretty sure i have it doing primary logins, home directories , perms control on the other 2 linux servers
[19:44] <imbrandon> and some other minor osx specifc stuff like time machine and iphoto/itunes shares
[19:44] <imbrandon> all on something that wasent intended to be used in "production" at all
[19:44] <imbrandon> lol
[19:45] <lifeless> ah, they are supported I think
[19:45] <imbrandon> is kinda neat how much ubuntu picks up on the osx services now tho, used to be a pain, but now banshie/rhythmbox see the itunes , all of them use mdns native
[19:45] <imbrandon> etc
[19:45] <lifeless> I didn't realise that the openstack default is to use different environment variables *for the same values*.
[19:45]  * lifeless headdesks
[19:46] <imbrandon> heh
[19:46] <imbrandon> yea i think it looks in the cli then env, then config home and confg server
[19:46] <imbrandon> err scratch that last one thats the aws tools
[19:47] <lifeless> yup, they are supported.
[19:47] <imbrandon> cool
[19:47] <lifeless> openstack's scripts set EC2_ACCESS_KEY, not AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID, for instance.
[19:47] <lifeless> I'll file a bug on txaws for supporting the openstack variables
[19:48] <imbrandon> hrm, maybe i'll take a break from the nginx charm a minute and get a os env rolling, then i can use it to finish testing the nginx charm up
[19:48] <imbrandon> and work some kinks out
[19:48] <imbrandon> nice, yea i'm sure hazmat will toss it in, seen him do a few patchs quickly on it the last week or so
[19:48] <imbrandon> but he is in route to a conf today iirc
[19:49] <imbrandon> and there most of the week next week i *think*
[19:49] <imbrandon> velocity, not sure its a week long tho
[19:49] <imbrandon> few day at least i'd imagine
[19:50] <imbrandon> oh btw, i did get my credentials working on the juju wiki, just needed to log out like ya said
[19:50] <lifeless> there we go: https://bugs.launchpad.net/txaws/+bug/1017239
[19:50] <_mup_> Bug #1017239: openstack ec2 credentials not picked up from environment <txAWS:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017239 >
[19:50] <imbrandon> ( that was you that handled the ticket right ? heh sorry if not )
[19:52] <imbrandon> my thing with all these cli tools is they all want the same keys but diff env names
[19:52] <imbrandon> irks me
[19:57] <lifeless> mmm, no, I ididn't
[19:57] <lifeless> I get cc'd on some rt stuff, part of my job to be looking for trends and issues
[19:57] <imbrandon> whoop sorry then , mixed the name up, i had just glanced at it
[19:58] <imbrandon> yea you might have been cc'd i just glanced at the name that handled it but it was so late friday when i got it working i put it off emailing back
[19:58] <imbrandon> heh
[19:58] <imbrandon> or it might have just been a similar name :)
[19:59]  * imbrandon is curious now, goes to look
[20:00] <imbrandon> ahh yea, you were just cc'd on it for some reason :)
[20:01] <imbrandon> chris stratford did it, not sure who that is on irc if i even know them /me replies so they will see it monday and close it hopefully , /me should not be so terrible about the responses
[20:04] <lifeless> imbrandon: this is what <dnsName>ec2-75-101-245-65.compute-1.amazonaws.com</dnsName> - ec2 returns, vs <dnsName>server-2</dnsName> in my local openstack install
[20:04] <lifeless> you can see the former is trivially bulk-provisionable
[20:04] <lifeless> or even just dynamically answerable by a hacked dns server
[20:05] <imbrandon> hrm
[20:05] <imbrandon> yea thats nasty
[20:06] <lifeless> however, these days we get ip addresses straight back
[20:06] <lifeless> so we can use that
[20:06] <imbrandon> right
[20:06] <lifeless> needs a txaws patch tho
[20:07] <imbrandon> yea dns is a tricky thing to even for experinced programmers / devops / ops , one little variance and can toss a whole range of things out of wak
[20:07] <imbrandon> so that dont help
[20:09] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/txaws/+bug/1017245
[20:09] <_mup_> Bug #1017245: ipAddress and privateIpAddress are missing from describeInstances <txAWS:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017245 >
[20:09]  * lifeless is on a yak shaving mission
[20:09] <imbrandon> haha
[20:10] <lifeless> argh
[20:10] <lifeless> now
[20:10] <lifeless> 2012-06-25 08:10:14,921 ERROR Invalid SSH key
[20:10] <lifeless> ^ $curses
[20:10] <imbrandon> haha
[20:10] <imbrandon> bad env.y most of the time
[20:10] <imbrandon> when i get that
[20:12] <lifeless> pasted you my env for this
[20:12] <lifeless> Am I using the ssh option wrong or something ?
[20:12] <lifeless> does it upload it via cloud-init ?
[20:15] <lifeless> does the key need to be registered with the cloud
[20:15] <lifeless> or is cloud-init used to insert it ?
[20:16] <imbrandon> yea
[20:16] <imbrandon> it gets passed as user-data
[20:16] <imbrandon> to cloud init
[20:17] <imbrandon> along with some pkgs to be installed like bzr
[20:17] <imbrandon> and juju zk
[20:17] <lifeless> yah
[20:17] <lifeless> log shows zk etc installing ok
[20:17] <imbrandon> and then it also passes a 64base encoded shell script that makes like var/lib/juju
[20:18] <imbrandon> can you "curl -iS http://instance.data/latest/user-data
[20:18] <imbrandon> oin maas ?
[20:19] <imbrandon> EC2 API has it, and i know rackspace and hp both do but not sure if its the compatability layer or OS that also does it
[20:19] <imbrandon> but that should show you the whole cloud init user-data script including keys
[20:19] <imbrandon> if they were passed
[20:21] <imbrandon> or "curl http://<IP_ADDRESS>/1.0/user-data" may work too
[20:21] <lifeless> well, I can't ssh into the machine
[20:21] <imbrandon> the other is just an alias on the local nets that implment it
[20:21] <imbrandon> oh frack
[20:21] <lifeless> because the ssh key is whats failing :>
[20:21] <imbrandon> thats right
[20:22] <imbrandon> hrm
[20:22] <lifeless> otherwise, I'd be like 'woo yeah. lets see'
[20:22] <imbrandon> this is MAAs right ?
[20:22] <lifeless> no
[20:22] <lifeless> openstack
[20:22] <imbrandon> or jusy OS
[20:22] <lifeless> seen EC2 error when attempting to delete group juju-devstack-0: Error Message: An unknown error has occurred. Please try your request again.
[20:22] <imbrandon> ok there is a way you should be able to get at the user data from the outside
[20:22] <imbrandon> and change it if needed, i just cant rember right off
[20:22]  * imbrandon things
[20:23] <lifeless> So, I want to figure out whats wrong
[20:23] <lifeless> I have root on the openstack server
[20:23] <lifeless> so I'll fiddle around there
[20:23] <imbrandon> ohh ok locla too
[20:23] <imbrandon> yea look in /var/lib/cloud
[20:23] <imbrandon> it will have where it dumped the keys
[20:24] <imbrandon> before it added them or should have
[20:24] <imbrandon> as well as logs
[20:24] <imbrandon> that juju might not have
[20:24] <lifeless> where are the juju logs ?
[20:24] <imbrandon> /var/lib/juju/charm/somewhere
[20:25] <imbrandon> if your on the box run ps ax
[20:25] <imbrandon> it will show where the log is getting piped
[20:25] <_mup_> Bug #1017248 was filed: EC2 error when attempting to delete group juju-devstack-0 <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017248 >
[20:25] <lifeless> not the charm stuff; the error coming back from ssh
[20:25] <imbrandon> yea
[20:26] <imbrandon> there should be a more general zk log too
[20:26] <lifeless> ok, this is weird
[20:26] <imbrandon> in there
[20:26] <lifeless> *I* can ssh to the instance
[20:26] <lifeless> juju can't
[20:26] <imbrandon> ahjh
[20:26] <lifeless> from the same shell
[20:26] <imbrandon> that def means the env.y syntaz it fubar then
[20:26] <lifeless> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works
[20:26] <imbrandon> syntax*
[20:26] <imbrandon> it wont try other keys
[20:26] <lifeless> ok, so lets see that url
[20:26] <imbrandon> curl http://<IP_ADDRESS>/1.0/user-data
[20:27] <imbrandon> let me pastbin you my working one privately
[20:27] <lifeless>     ', /sbin/start juju-provision-agent]
[20:27] <lifeless> ssh_authorized_keys: [ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEA728T0gI08lJFqZQo8lDUgKiE860aWTQz+QSeYAFg2T5TrYbGHKt2GHZy+OHYkAhUiSCjZXogFyh1+TRkQIYCcZTNQdOoMtLVesOk9/jRh6ZIcrQvTzbK2KpLXBMhNX9J+HZ5MiAYTZRX9uJSmvDAxrsof2qcVyYBs67hPdE3s5I0Zg5uNm93M9/ciEr+UWTWiIxounHhiEbdW1LIszBlAtvLpsw9bgtB6rRjygiSvoiXMTt00YhWip9PpxBBa6OqtETF/Qu+Uf+guujTnwO9Ue77kNDoocMrZfDsBxlSG6gsByGO/ue7YlRI1w96W68xaGLFl5cgt60SUK1BIVJW9w==
[20:27] <imbrandon> so you can compare
[20:27] <lifeless>     /home/robertc/.ssh/id_rsa]
[20:27] <lifeless> thats three lines
[20:27] <lifeless> but it looks quoted
[20:27] <imbrandon> that looks right
[20:27] <imbrandon> hrm
[20:27] <imbrandon> wow
[20:28] <lifeless> I mean, it worked right? I can ssh in...
[20:28] <imbrandon> ok one sec, let me still get mine, i bet its that damned authorized-keys vs authorized-key-path i came accross the other day
[20:28] <imbrandon> some things use one and some the other i am willing to bet
[20:29] <lifeless> imbrandon: I don't understand though: how does this affect 'juju status' - the ssh environment is *working*
[20:29] <lifeless> I just did 'ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and et voila
[20:29] <imbrandon> right, that was their issue too, liek two days ago, i just unfortunately did not pay enought attn
[20:30] <lifeless> hmm, status -v
[20:30] <lifeless> -> its connecting to <IP_ADDRESS>. *bong*
[20:30] <imbrandon> nice
[20:30] <lifeless> fixed, I think
[20:30] <lifeless> lets try that again
[20:30] <lifeless> \o/
[20:30] <lifeless> ok.
[20:31] <lifeless> time to do patches, bugs, writeup and then I can do what I actually wanted to be testing.
[20:31] <lifeless> but first, a quick break
[20:31] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1058118/
[20:32] <imbrandon> thats how my keys are layed out fwiw, just for ref later
[20:32] <imbrandon> if you add more
[20:32] <imbrandon> obviously thats only the middle of the file, but you get the context
[20:34] <imbrandon> i *think* you can have it read a file as well like authorized-key-path: ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
[20:34] <imbrandon> but i have not actually tried that yet
[20:37] <imbrandon> btw for anyone arround , or that reads this in the backlog, i started a full mirror on a box at hpcloud i set aside just for that reason, apt-mirror should be done here in less than an hour and i'll have it sync very very regularly ( like every hour or so if not more ) as a "local mirror" on the hp cloud
[20:38] <imbrandon> figured i needed to play upstream and dust off apt-mirror for a little workout and fix some of the miror bugs in bts anyhow and that gives me a good excuse
[20:39] <imbrandon> point is i'll post the priv IP for it etc etc somewhere we can all refrence it like the mailing list
[20:40] <imbrandon> to use, and should no problem with trust as i'll put a real ssl cert on it ( got one i'm not useing ) and the keys are all canonicals etc cuz i'm not repackin stuff, real mirror
[20:40] <imbrandon> i'll make sure it runs at minimum the 3 months HP gave us, if its not too much i may keep it past then too
[20:41] <imbrandon> or see if they will just sponsor that one node etc if i put the ops time in keeeping it up
[20:41] <imbrandon> we'll hit that bridge when we need to but for now should greatly speed up apt-get and such
[20:42] <imbrandon> hrm, and actually it just hit me that apt-mirror would make an excelent charm too
[20:43] <imbrandon> juju deploy apt-mirror; wait 2 hours and you have a private mirror :)
[20:43] <imbrandon> could even make it smart and use ec2 on aws and such :)
[20:43] <imbrandon> err s3
[20:43] <lifeless> well
[20:44] <lifeless> otoh yes, otoh we have canonical run mirrors on the major clouds, in each reach,that have free traffic for instances...
[20:58] <lifeless> ok, it was fixed in txaws rev 134
[20:58] <lifeless> which we're not running yet
[21:01] <lifeless> SpamapS: what do you think the chances of updating txaws in precise are? to get ip address support in Instances (rev 134)
[21:04] <imbrandon> if we could isolate it to fixes only i'm sure we could make a case and get it tested good enough
[21:04] <imbrandon> i would think
[21:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch: ping pong :) here is good too
[21:04] <imbrandon> :)
[21:04] <imbrandon> not sure if i'm even in uwire right now
[21:05] <imbrandon> lol
[21:05] <ajmitch> so what are you having issues with? it's good timing as I had the fabric script open in front of me right now
[21:06] <imbrandon> like was having problems groking even a working file at all
[21:06] <lifeless> imbrandon: this is what I need: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~txaws-dev/txaws/trunk/revision/134
[21:06]  * ajmitch uses it in a really basic way, checking out the branches
[21:06] <imbrandon> like hellp world stuff, i'm only ever done capfiles like that
[21:06] <imbrandon> yea thats what i have the charm doing now
[21:06] <imbrandon> its checking out the git repo
[21:06] <imbrandon> and then dumping a config
[21:06] <imbrandon> into place
[21:07] <imbrandon> and as well as a cron than looks for git updates to the prod branch
[21:07] <imbrandon> but i wanna change that to a web post hook on next iteration
[21:07] <imbrandon> no need to be looking 24/7 running crons like that every 10 min
[21:08] <imbrandon> webhook that takes a postrecieve from a git hook commit or bitbucket or github webhook etc etc
[21:08] <imbrandon> and pulls and swaps dir
[21:09] <ajmitch> ok, what do you have so far? dump in a pastebin or something
[21:09] <imbrandon> but yea, i like dident even get hello world functioning ,i'm guessing because i was trying to do it liek a cam file and use config/deploy etc
[21:09] <imbrandon> yea , let me find which branch i was on
[21:09] <imbrandon> give me like 2 min
[21:10] <imbrandon> lifeless: yea i'm thinking that LOOKS like it could be sane enough to land in an -update but i often over look other parts so SpamapS could give ya a MUCH better idea
[21:11] <imbrandon> but we already had juju its self in -updates
[21:11] <imbrandon> so the team isnt shy of it
[21:11] <ajmitch> fabric is really quite simplistic, it's just "run this stuff on these hosts"
[21:11] <ajmitch> doesn't do any of the provisioning magic of juju :)
[21:11] <imbrandon> yea i was hopign it was a python version of capistrano
[21:12] <imbrandon> since all thse damn hooks are in python it will make since to use fab, and the ones i write in ruby or php i'll use cap :)
[21:12] <imbrandon> or say screw it and convince them to build it into juju :)
[21:12]  * imbrandon looks for the code
[21:13] <ajmitch> you can probably do similar things with it
[21:13] <imbrandon> yea cap is very deploy centric, not like chef/puppet config mgmt
[21:13] <imbrandon> it CAN but thats whole nother store
[21:14] <imbrandon> much better suited for the install and update hooks
[21:14] <imbrandon> and custom elsewhere
[21:14]  * ajmitch will have to head off in a few minutes probably
[21:15] <imbrandon> ok not found my branch yet, you would die at my ~Projects folder
[21:15] <imbrandon> but i did find where i was cop;y/pasting from
[21:15] <imbrandon> http://www.saintsjd.com/2011/01/continuous-deployment-for-wordpress-using-git-and-fabric/
[21:15] <imbrandon> ^^my history file still had it
[21:15] <imbrandon> heh
[21:16] <imbrandon> i got all the way down to "writing the deploy scripts"
[21:16] <imbrandon> and like nothing seemed to work at all
[21:17] <imbrandon> i had all kinds of problems but it was also trying to do alot more than i just wanted it to grab the proper git branch and then symlink atomic update the deploy putting a config into place if it was the first run and not there yet
[21:17] <imbrandon> seemed simple but yea
[21:18] <imbrandon> like -0- examples of that i could find
[21:18] <imbrandon> or close
[21:19] <imbrandon> i mean i have the charm doing all this alreay but its kinda to be able to use python with python hooks when the charm uses those ( like the old wordpress )
[21:19] <imbrandon> and ruby when it uses those ( i know how to use capfiles )
[21:19] <imbrandon> etc
[21:20] <imbrandon> seems like passing vars and such might get some novel use if it can do stuff natively
[21:20]  * ajmitch will have to talk to you about this later
[21:20] <imbrandon> kk
[21:20] <imbrandon> np
[21:20] <imbrandon> i know your working :)
[21:20]  * ajmitch is at work, has meeting soonish
[21:21] <imbrandon> yup yup totally understood, jsut next day or two as you have time toss me a bone :)
[21:22] <imbrandon> ohhh lifeless your turn ( promis its easy q, lol) is the scripts/jobs that build the OSX dmg/pkgs for bzr on LP publicly that you know of ?
[21:23] <imbrandon> just curious if you knew before i started digging, i'm hoping i can gleen some of them for use wiht osx juju, stand on the shoulders of giants and all that
[21:23] <imbrandon> sicne it has dmg installer and python i'm hoping there is a good chance :) heh
[21:30] <lifeless> imbrandon: I don't know.
[21:31] <lifeless> imbrandon: it should be linked from the macosx stuff on the bzr wiki
[21:31] <lifeless> bazaar.canonical.com
[21:36] <lifeless> how does one run the test suite ?
[21:36] <imbrandon> well
[21:37] <imbrandon> the packages are but i ment the build part
[21:37] <lifeless> imbrandon: yes, there should be docs on building it on the wiki
[21:37] <lifeless> its changed hands a few times
[21:38] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[21:38] <imbrandon> okies,i'll poke at it here in afew, getting aws alerts again about the EU stuff
[21:38] <imbrandon> needing to check it, afkish
[22:07] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I have *never* used photoshop, so I can't judge that screenshot. To me, photoshop is the one that feels wrong. ;)
[22:08] <imbrandon> yea but look how GTK/GIMP that looks now
[22:08] <lifeless> SpamapS: oh hi
[22:08] <imbrandon> def not OSXish
[22:09] <SpamapS> lifeless: you do know that the credentials are only ever used for bootstrap and destroy-environment, right? (reading backscroll)
[22:10] <imbrandon> oh man its like half the ram of CS5 too and very fast, i wonder if they dident just rip gimp off :) hahah , not only that they did the one thing that will keep adobe around for a very long time, subscptions, they did what apple did to the music industry with this release and no one realizes it yet, no one will pirate this when they can have all 16 offfline apps and 6 online apps for 30bux a month except script kiddies, but they dont matter, young pros it will
[22:10] <imbrandon> ever*
[22:10] <SpamapS> lifeless: bootstrap shoves them into ZK and the provisioning agent uses them henceforth. :p
[22:11] <imbrandon> whatever they did to the UI , its very very snappy now, and much much less ram ( all the CS apps so far i installed from the pack are )
[22:11] <SpamapS> lifeless: reading r134 now
[22:12] <imbrandon> SpamapS: yea dident wanna put words into the teams mouth there but it is a bug bug
[22:14] <lifeless> hahaha
[22:14] <lifeless> so juju doesn't like running its tests in parallel :)
[22:14] <lifeless> SpamapS: yes, but friction is friction
[22:14] <SpamapS> argh
[22:14] <SpamapS> why isn't txaws tagging their trunk? :-(
[22:14] <lifeless> ENOIDEA
[22:16] <SpamapS> argh, nor are they using launchpad releases
[22:16] <SpamapS> so its pretty hard to see if/when that fix is already released
[22:16] <SpamapS> other than the bug being Fix Released
[22:17] <SpamapS> as somebody who has been a committer on txaws for a while, it feels like a ship w/o a rudder. :-/
[22:17] <imbrandon> btw SpamapS the feel i can genuinely get past , i know alot of ppl get hung up on it,but its cuz thats all they really use and like to whine , but really i tend to miss all the "little things" that arent really PS at all but part of the CS like one button ( even a mouse macro ) to move the current image between PS and illistrator ( inkskape ) without closing / opening an app or save/open a file, it just does it and your editing the vector aspects of the proje
[22:17] <SpamapS> I think we'd have been better off with boto at this point. :-P
[22:17]  * imbrandon si done on that subject :)
[22:19] <lifeless> SpamapS: erm, no ;). boto inside twisted is just awful. Please pleaseplease no.
[22:19] <SpamapS> lifeless: looks like a workaround for OpenStack not making it easy enough to setup DNS... hrm
[22:19] <imbrandon> lol lifeless
[22:19] <lifeless> SpamapS: not really.
[22:20] <SpamapS> lifeless: libcloud then.. ;)
[22:20] <lifeless> SpamapS: SpamapS or rather, if you want to call it that, but - openstack doesn't have a batteries included mass-provision dns
[22:20] <lifeless> SpamapS: also not twisted.
[22:20] <lifeless> SpamapS: AFAIK.
[22:20] <imbrandon> SpamapS: i thought it looked like a real bug of it returning the wrong value ona correct but uncommon setup
[22:21] <lifeless> SpamapS: synchronous network code within twisted is generally a disaster waiting to happen.
[22:21] <SpamapS> lifeless: I've been told a few times that deferToThread works fine for I/O bound code.
[22:21] <lifeless> SpamapS: if you set your thread pool to the needed concurrency.
[22:22] <lifeless> SpamapS: and if the other library is concurrency safe.
[22:22] <SpamapS> Whih, IMO, is about 5. :-P
[22:22] <lifeless> SpamapS: everyone forgets the first point (which for juju would need to be, oh, 10K or something)
[22:22] <SpamapS> I am not convinced juju needs the concurrency that twisted affords. :P
[22:22]  * imbrandon saus screw twisted AND go, wrap it all in JS functions that are talking to a rails apps onto of redis cache and mongodb with puts its json api out useing handlebars and backpone templates
[22:22]  * imbrandon runs
[22:23] <SpamapS> Thus far, everything except the provisioning agent is single threaded in nature.
[22:23] <SpamapS> imbrandon: that sounds webscale
[22:23] <imbrandon> lol
[22:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: status isn't single threaded
[22:24] <SpamapS> lifeless: one can argue that anything missing from txaws's implementation of the EC2 API's is a serious bug.. so I could at least present a case for it in an SRU.
[22:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: also there is a modelling issue: everything can be *made* single threaded, the question is whether it will perform well enough as such.
[22:25] <imbrandon> i am wondering why we are the only ( not counting aws hodge podge of community apps ) that dosent use NODE cli &/or server side for service orchstration
[22:25] <SpamapS> lifeless: status just polls the crap out of a *single* zookeeper node.
[22:25] <imbrandon> of the ones poping up
[22:25] <imbrandon> i mean are they ALL doing it because its new and hot, or did we miss something fundamental
[22:25] <SpamapS> lifeless: which is dumb anyway, there should be a daemon keeping a materialized view of status and feeding it back to the clients.
[22:26] <imbrandon> SpamapS: there isnt ? i ahvent olooked into what zk does actuially
[22:26] <SpamapS> imbrandon: um, because node is crazy crack and we're interested in things that developers exist for now. ;)
[22:26]  * imbrandon is being serious about the zk thing
[22:27] <imbrandon> SpamapS: well azure , vmware cf, jitsu, appfog, and a few others in production now all use node apps. i was half ass joking but there is a bit of truth to it somehere just not sure where yet
[22:28] <imbrandon> i'm guessing they are all just hipster cept MS, and MS just accidently picked wrong anyhow
[22:28] <imbrandon> :)
[22:28] <SpamapS> I wouldn't call node a wrong choice at this point..
[22:28] <SpamapS> just that its getting more play than it should because it is the new concurrency shiny
[22:28] <imbrandon> hahah yea, that was purely ment funny :)
[22:29] <SpamapS> Apparently we prefer the slightly less popular and less new concurrency shiny of Go :)
[22:30] <imbrandon> you know, i have been slow and skeptical too beleave it or not on node, but i'm thinking that theere is not only alot of truith to it but there will be alot of crap code like php 3 years ago cuz everyene writes js and its not showen yet, but really its the # 2 of 3 next to nginx magic
[22:30] <imbrandon> sure apache can preform the same as nginx on pure http when both are tuned but you know
[22:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: anyway, re the txaws thing missing ipAddress.. my answer is yes, I think we can SRU that.
[22:31] <SpamapS> had I known such a nice little change had made it into trunk before 12.04's release, I'd have made an effort to update it
[22:31] <imbrandon> that apchache cant do what nginx can at the same speed just out of design, tuned or not, http purely, yea likely
[22:33] <SpamapS> imbrandon: the concept of a language w/ 1st class concurrency that also directly serves its network requests is fantastic. JS is widely "known".. but the way to write good client side javascript is vastly different than the way to write good server side code.
[22:33] <imbrandon> now what i'm still tring to figure out is if its REDIS persistant keystore or MONGO thats the #3 in the trifecta of the next tech age ( you knoe, about 2.5 years )
[22:33] <lifeless> SpamapS: status talks to all the zk nodes
[22:33] <imbrandon> but nginx and node are 2 of 3, and i'm thinking its gonna be redis but its just not show its self yet
[22:33] <lifeless> SpamapS: I know there is only one today, but check the code.
[22:34] <imbrandon> SpamapS: i whole heartly agree with you
[22:34] <imbrandon> there
[22:35] <SpamapS> lifeless: I understand its micro-optimized for that, but at what cost when we could actually have a perfectly up to date single materialized view and never poll zk?
[22:35] <imbrandon> infact very very much so and you actually just proved my point tho, look at python and php, same thing python is the better lang by far, php powers 77% of the internet because its what ppl know tho
[22:35] <lifeless> -lol-
[22:35] <lifeless> Ran 3459 tests in 1113.097s
[22:35] <lifeless> FAILED (id=0, failures=1377, skips=20)
[22:35] <imbrandon> ouch
[22:35] <imbrandon> very leet tho
[22:35] <imbrandon> err nah, lett
[22:35] <imbrandon> heh
[22:35] <lifeless> I ran the tests parallelised, through testrepository. Wham-bang.
[22:36] <SpamapS> lifeless: NICE
[22:36] <lifeless> SpamapS: looks like they don't use a randomised zk instance, but instead all use a common one.
[22:37] <imbrandon> SpamapS: i was actually thinking that the API would silently solve that by it doing just that , as long as it can be kept out of the go core then it could
[22:37] <lifeless> So, you can't run two copies of the test suite at once either.
[22:37] <imbrandon> and site keeping a view materialized just lazyloading data
[22:37] <imbrandon> sit*
[22:37] <lifeless> SpamapS: I'm not sure where the overheads are in status, so I won't comment :). I will say, being able to answer and slice and dice quickly is important in large environments
[22:37] <lifeless> SpamapS: and if we can't, we should be able to.
[22:38] <SpamapS> imbrandon: yeah, status should only be done via the REST API, and the REST API daemon should keep a constant materialized view of status.
[22:38] <lifeless> SpamapS: are you a reviewer ?
[22:38] <lifeless> SpamapS: of juju itself?
[22:38] <imbrandon> one is ssh spinup / connection, imho it should be one .1ms https call
[22:38] <SpamapS> lifeless: I am, of both juju and txaws actually. :)
[22:38] <SpamapS> lifeless: tho one needs two +1's for juju
[22:38] <imbrandon> SpamapS: exactly :)
[22:39] <lifeless> SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/juju/trivial/+merge/111752
[22:39] <lifeless> SpamapS: do you need anything from me to get such an SRU of txaws done?
[22:39] <imbrandon> SpamapS: then we dont care wtf they scred up in the design, trust me a few years with drupal you learn how to manuver around things but not break the rules so upgrades and all thet is still pure :)
[22:39] <imbrandon> plays well into this too
[22:39] <SpamapS> lifeless: and I agree that concurrency will at some point be necessary for pieces of juju. Twisted just makes it so damn hard to read sometimes, I get irrational about it. ;)
[22:39] <lifeless> SpamapS: I'm working on the juju tests for using it now.
[22:40] <lifeless> SpamapS: I agree that twisted can be awkward, I actually think inlinecallbacks makes it worse.
[22:40] <SpamapS> lifeless: nah I'll open up the bug tasks appropriate
[22:40] <lifeless> SpamapS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/945505 is the bug that triggers the need, tho its not about the change itself.
[22:40] <_mup_> Bug #945505: Use ipAddress instead of dnsName now that txaws supports it <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/945505 >
[22:41] <lifeless> right, thats more like it:
[22:41] <lifeless> Ran 1979 (-1480) tests in 333.841s (-781.528s)
[22:41] <lifeless> FAILED (id=1, failures=27 (-1350), skips=12)
[22:41] <lifeless> 27 failures ;)
[22:41] <SpamapS> lifeless: agreed, inlineCallbacks takes it from a foreign accent to a whole new dialect hundreds of years removed.. like Afrikaans vs. Dutch
[22:42] <imbrandon> SpamapS: as it makes sense and dont hold ppl / process up  , ping me for some of the more core-ish stuff i can help with from the outside without stirring too much feathers or the like, i wouldent think so just getting it into the open, anyhow i would like to start dusting off those skills again and put them to use a little and jujuish things seem like the best polace to drum up tasks as its the other part of what i'm doing lately :)
[22:43] <_mup_> Bug #1017273 was filed: running the test suite in parallel fails <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017273 >
[22:43] <SpamapS> lifeless: probably easier to just track under bug #945176
[22:43] <_mup_> Bug #945176: Support privateIpAddress and ipAddress <txAWS:Fix Released by rye> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/945176 >
[22:43] <lifeless> SpamapS: think adding a .testr.conf would be acceptable?
[22:43]  * imbrandon loves having inlinecallbacks and lamdas and closure funcs etc in php now, finally after 100 years we close the gap with JS for parity
[22:44] <SpamapS> lifeless: I don't know what .testr.conf is
[22:44] <lifeless> SpamapS: oh, I haven't shown you testrepository ?
[22:44] <SpamapS> no
[22:44]  * imbrandon looks up
[22:44] <lifeless> SpamapS: doh!
[22:44] <imbrandon> publicish where i could learn abit too ?
[22:44] <lifeless> SpamapS: ok, uhm, probably want the ppa version - apt-add-repository ppa:testing-cabal
[22:45] <imbrandon> or on that side of the IS wall ?
[22:45] <lifeless> in a juju source tree, add a .testr.conf like in this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1017273
[22:45] <_mup_> Bug #1017273: running the test suite in parallel fails <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017273 >
[22:45] <lifeless> apt-get install testrepository
[22:45] <lifeless> then run
[22:45] <lifeless> testr init; testr run
[22:45] <lifeless> that will seed your repository
[22:45] <SpamapS> lifeless: btw, running w/ eatmydata, and on an SSD, its far closer to 2 minutes than 5
[22:45] <lifeless> from there you can do useful things like:
[22:45] <lifeless> testr failing
[22:45] <lifeless> testr slowest
[22:46] <lifeless> testr last
[22:46] <lifeless> testr run --failing
[22:46] <lifeless> :!testr slowest
[22:46] <lifeless> Test id                                                                                Runtime (s)
[22:46] <SpamapS> its not even really CPU bound half the time, just waiting on ZK
[22:46] <lifeless> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------
[22:46] <lifeless> juju.control.tests.test_status.StatusTest.test_subordinate_status_output_no_container        4.901
[22:46] <lifeless> juju.control.tests.test_status.StatusTest.test_subordinate_status_output                     4.841
[22:46] <lifeless> juju.control.tests.test_status.StatusTest.test_collect_filtering                             4.370
[22:46] <lifeless> for instance
[22:46] <lifeless> SpamapS: I'm on an SSD :>
[22:46] <lifeless> haven't got eatmydata configured
[22:46] <SpamapS> it tends to take about 200s or so for me
[22:47] <SpamapS> there is no "configured" for eatmydata
[22:47] <SpamapS> 'eatmydata ./test'
[22:47] <SpamapS> disables fsync
[22:47] <SpamapS> so ZK no longer blocks on I/O
[22:47] <SpamapS> still it probably won't get much below 3-4 minutes so parallel is a great plan
[22:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: yes, thats configuring it; need to remember to do it etc etc.
[22:50] <lifeless> and then I can do things like this:
[22:50] <lifeless> testr run --failing
[22:50] <lifeless> ...
[22:50] <lifeless> Ran 27 (-1952) tests in 0.949s (-334.093s)
[22:50] <lifeless> FAILED (id=2, failures=12 (-15))
[22:50] <imbrandon> whats the ppa ? its missing the ohther bit
[22:50] <lifeless> oh, archive or whatever the default is
[22:50] <imbrandon> kk
[22:50] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~testing-cabal/+archive/archive
[22:51]  * SpamapS tries poor man's parallization by running ./text for each dir in juju/*
[22:51] <lifeless> testrepository builds on subunit
[22:51] <imbrandon> cool cool
[22:51] <imbrandon> heh
[22:51] <lifeless> so anything that can talk subunit (like twisted trial, testtools, zope.testing,... sambas testrunner) can run under it.
[22:52] <imbrandon> lazr
[22:52] <imbrandon> heh
[22:54] <imbrandon> i'm poke at this a bit more, i'm terrible about not knowing the testing proceesure for most langs/frameworks with the exception of phpunit and others i use in php daily and jsunit ( not done much js functional test specificly , mosly covered whith selenium is testing the front end php css html stuff )
[22:55] <SpamapS> lifeless: I've marked bug #945176 for SRU to precise ... I'll look at preparing it tomorrow or later tonight (4pm Sunday here for me)
[22:55] <_mup_> Bug #945176: Support privateIpAddress and ipAddress <txAWS:Fix Released by rye> <txaws (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <txaws (Ubuntu Precise):New for clint-fewbar> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/945176 >
[22:55] <imbrandon> i really should at least get the beasics down for other areas i touch
[22:55]  * SpamapS goes afk to do some real life stuff
[22:55] <imbrandon> ttyl
[22:56] <imbrandon> look at my nginx hooks when you get pack ( if at all tonight )
[22:56] <imbrandon> i'd love a pre-review early opinion as i'm finishing and can easily make changes :)
[22:56] <imbrandon> like a 5 min job, and i'll add a nother beer to the tab i owe ya :)
[23:08] <lifeless> SpamapS: hazmat: and this - https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/juju/bug-945505/+merge/111754 - addresses my issue with openstack I was whinging about the other day.
[23:12] <lifeless> I wonder, what does the openstack + maas combo do for dns integration
[23:13] <lifeless> do we run ldapdns, or point folks laptopdns at the dnsmasq instance for maas ?
[23:25] <lifeless> http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/running-juju-against-a-private-openstack-instance/ for posterity
[23:42] <lifeless> and https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/juju/testrsupport/+merge/111755, and with that, I'm context switching