[01:30] <pwnguin> is it too early to file bugs against 2.6.24?
[01:36] <zul> nope
[01:47] <pwnguin> did l-u-m go away?
[02:24] <crimsun> no, it just hasn't been uploaded yet.
[02:29] <pwnguin> ok
[15:30] <zul> BenC: ping some xen info for you http://pastebin.com/m2de00eee
[15:44] <bullgard4> http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/19628 Why does the timestamp jump suddenly in line # 213 to a smaller value? (5,352 s)
[15:46] <mjg59`> Because it's changing timesource
[15:49] <bullgard4> From what timesource to what other?
[20:10] <kraut> moin
[21:05] <lamont> BenC: randal schwartz's tech talk on youtube, 44 minutes in... explains why one does not rebase branches that have been published...
[21:05] <lamont> just fyi
[21:32] <BenC> lamont: I understand the social aspect of not rebasing, but I also know the technical benefits that rebasing provides us :)
[21:33] <BenC> lamont: Our kernel tree really isn't for providing a patch base for other developers, like most projects...it's meant to publish our work
[21:33] <BenC> lamont: in most cases at least (there are people using our tree for other development)
[21:46] <lamont> BenC: right... and when I'm one of those people using it for other development, it scuks
[21:46] <BenC> lamont: what other development are you doing?
[21:46] <BenC> lamont: one good thing is, rebases are on a schedule (which will be posted soon on the wiki)
[21:46] <lamont> well, historically,it's been dealing with pushing hppa/ia64 patches back to ubuntu
[21:46] <lamont> ah, rebasing schedules will help
[22:08] <Kano> BenC: do you want to update the kernel git? there are some problems with current code, like i have got no dma with my dvdrw now
[22:08] <Kano> hardy git
[22:10] <BenC> Yes, I want to update our repo
[22:10] <Kano> also could you add a patch
[22:10] <BenC> that's an odd question considering we know we'll be following 2.6.24 until it is released :)
[22:10] <BenC> Kano: all patches need to be posted to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:10] <Kano> http://people.redhat.com/~heinzm/sw/dm/dm-raid45/
[22:11] <BenC> I don't personally take in patches
[22:11] <Kano> i did for 2.6.22, no response
[22:11] <BenC> IIRC, that's because it was too close to gutsy release
[22:11] <Kano> http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20071023.131911.301ab4c4.en.html
[22:12] <BenC> Kano: that dm-raid is not a patch, it's a whole new module
[22:12] <BenC> Kano: likely should be in lum
[22:12] <Kano> if you like add it in lum
[22:12] <BenC> Kano: if you like, please check out the lum git, fix the new module into our source, and request a pull, or export the patch to kernel-team@
[22:13] <Kano> i am not so good with that
[22:13] <Kano> also new ndiswrapper would be needed in lum
[22:13] <Kano> 1.50 is out and 1.45 is in lum
[22:14] <BenC> so you've checked out the lum source for hardy?
[22:14] <Kano> aufs should be added, unionfs dropped
[22:14] <Kano> BenC: i have even a live cd with your kernel
[22:14] <BenC> you obviously haven't done much research...everything you are asking for is outlined in the kernel roadmap, in blueprints on launchpad, etc
[22:15] <BenC> all of lum will be updated according to the kernel release schedule for 8.04
[22:15] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/kernel/kernel-update-pack-generic-future/source/sec_perm-2.6.24.patch
[22:15] <Kano> but i needed that patch, to export somehing for aufs
[22:15] <BenC> aufs and unionfs fate have been outlined in a blueprint
[22:15] <BenC> Phillip has already started on this
[22:16] <Kano> i even patches unionfs and it did not work, aufs works
[22:16] <BenC> we know this
[22:16] <BenC> please see blueprints for our work on this
[22:17] <Kano> well you have blueprints, i have a working live cd
[22:17] <BenC> So do we
[22:17] <Kano> show me url
[22:18] <BenC> I'm not continuing with someone that questions my integrity, as if I'm some sort of liar
[22:18] <Kano> well all i say it is impossible with your current git code
[22:19] <BenC> Phillip has been working on this for several weeks, his work is not published because we don't want to spread incomplete work, and work that isn't based on what we have in the archive
[22:19] <BenC> Kano: have a good evening
[23:27] <yuhong> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2007-December/001934.html
[23:29] <Kano> the server one has pae enabled
[23:30] <Kano> did you try it
[23:31] <yuhong> As it should be in most cases, though there should be a non-pae server kernel.
[23:31] <Kano> well pae does not work in virtual box for example, so the default should not be pae enabled
[23:32] <yuhong> Even if the PAE kernel did work, it was designed for a server, not a desktop.
[23:32] <Kano> for me thats just a name,nothing else
[23:32] <yuhong> "PAE kernel" I mean server kernel.
[23:33] <yuhong> I mean there is more to a server kernel than enabling PAE.
[23:37] <yuhong> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2007-December/001934.html
[23:37] <Kano> did you ever compare the 2 settings
[23:38] <yuhong> I was going to show you a diff between the .config of both kernels, except that I am still installing ubuntu.
[23:39] <Kano> i already saw those, but why not compile your own kernel with pae enabled?
[23:40] <Kano> when you add it as custom kernel it is not that hard
[23:41] <yuhong> I am suggesting this because processors with NX support are now common.
[23:41] <yuhong> No but I am suggesting this because processors with NX support are now common.
[23:41] <Kano> i would prefer other settings like complete free of old ide code kernels, just like only one changed option ;)
[23:42] <JanC> Kano: the server kernel is 250 Hz instead of 1000 Hz and there are other differences about drivers
[23:42] <yuhong> Exactly.
[23:42] <Kano> but compiling an extra kernel just for 1 option sounds a bit extreme...
[23:42] <JanC> and Virtualbox has issues with Ubuntu's tickless kernel anyway  ;)
[23:43] <yuhong> Agreed, I am recommending this because processors with NX support are now common.
[23:43] <Kano> well i made a live cd with debian 2.6.23-1-686 kernel and it could not boot, but it boots the 2.6.24 generic one ;)
[23:43] <JanC> anyway, I think the current -generic kernel is okay for most uses
[23:44] <yuhong> Which processor does that computer have?
[23:44] <Kano> which?
[23:45] <JanC> yuhong: for what purpose do you want this?
[23:45] <yuhong> I want to do this because processors with NX are now common.
[23:45] <Kano> how much ram do you have got is the better question
[23:45] <JanC> if it's a reasonably common purpose, and someone wants to take care of it, there have been community "maintained" kernels in universe for some time now
[23:46] <yuhong> "how much ram do you have got is the better question"
[23:46] <Kano> well you dont need pae for less than 3gb
[23:46] <JanC> Kano: and also, why not run a 64-bit kernel?  ツ
[23:47] <yuhong> But you still need PAE for NX.
[23:47] <yuhong> Because the NX bit does not fit in the non-PAE pagetables.
[23:47] <Kano> JanC: on desktop there are many drawbacks - at least with debian or ubuntu
[23:48] <JanC> Kano: that's actually not much of a problem on Ubuntu 7.10 anymore
[23:48] <Kano> it is not that easy to use a native firefox with java and flash
[23:48] <Kano> also you can not use win32 codecs
[23:48] <yuhong> I know, that is why I suggest enabling PAE on NX capable processors.
[23:48] <JanC> flash works just fine
[23:48] <Kano> same time as java does?
[23:49] <JanC> and probably java plugin too, but I didn't test that
[23:49] <yuhong> Anyway, I am suggesting a PAE kernel not because of >4G but because of NX.
[23:49] <Kano> well the wrapper can handle flash
[23:49] <Kano> but you still lack java, no offical java plugin for 64 bit exists
[23:49] <Kano> maybe you can use icetea or so
[23:50] <Kano> and how do you use win32 codecs
[23:50] <JanC> yuhong: but do people really need NX, that's the question
[23:50] <yuhong> XP SP2 enables PAE with a compatiblity hack on NX capable processors.
[23:50] <JanC> Kano: why do you need illegal codecs?  ;)
[23:51] <Kano> JanC: to view my legal wmv files
[23:51] <Kano> with audio
[23:51] <JanC> yuhong: I can so it might be useful in a security-enhanced kernel
[23:52] <JanC> Kano: well most wmv-files play fine in totem with gstreamer-ffmpeg or such now
[23:52] <Kano> well there is a project to make it possible to use win32 codecs over a 32 bit server tool with 64 bit apps
[23:52] <yuhong> Movie codec patents are a big problem today, BTW.
[23:52] <Kano> JanC: not the video is the problem the AUDIO
[23:52] <yuhong> Audio codec too.
[23:52] <Kano> just not the latest one
[23:52] <yuhong> That is why there is Ogg Vorbis.
[23:53] <JanC> yuhong: are you on the ubuntu-hardened project?
[23:53] <yuhong> No.
[23:53] <JanC> maybe they are interested in NX
[23:53] <yuhong> Correct.
[23:53] <JanC> and there might be a use case for a special extra-secure kernel
[23:54] <Kano> yuhong: did you ever buy a wmv hd dvd?
[23:54] <yuhong> No
[23:54] <yuhong> But I am aware of the problem.
[23:54] <JanC> Kano: why would we buy crap  ;)
[23:54] <yuhong> I am interested in a PAE desktop kernel because of NX>
[23:54] <Kano> JanC: because it looks better than mpeg2 standard res
[23:54] <yuhong> Exactly
[23:55] <JanC> what's the use of it if they forbid you to play it?
[23:55] <yuhong> Anyway, I am interested in a PAE desktop kernel because of NX.
[23:55] <Kano> yuhong: what cpu do you have got?
[23:55] <JanC> yuhong: I suggest you talk to the ubuntu-hardened people
[23:55] <yuhong> Why.
 and there might be a use case for a special extra-secure kernel
[23:56] <Kano> yuhong: to determine how long it would take to get a kernel ;)
[23:56] <yuhong> I didn't intend this issue to be related to ubuntu-hardened.
[23:56] <JanC> "ubuntu-hardened wants this" is a bit stronger than "yuhong wants this"   ;-)
[23:57] <yuhong> You are right that ubuntu-hardened would want this, though?
[23:57] <JanC> yuhong: using NX is is about hardening your system, no?
[23:57] <yuhong> Yes.
[23:57] <Kano> yuhong: how about booting a 64 bit system + 32 bit chroot for special purpose?
[23:57] <JanC> so...  ツ
[23:57] <yuhong> Fedora have a PAE desktop kernel, BTW.
[23:59] <Kano> do you have your kernel config you want to use ready
[23:59] <yuhong> generic with PAE enabled.
[23:59] <yuhong> Same as generic with PAE enabled.
[23:59] <Kano> did you enable it in your config


[01:53] <justinclark> Update: I haven't been able to confirm, but I think my issue is that event.defer() might put the deferred event at the front of the event trigger queue - my code would only work if the deferred event got put at the back of the event queue. I'll find another way to do what I want to do.
[08:24]  * Chipaca takes a break
[09:16] <bthomas> Chipaca: I am thinking it would be useful to allow opslib k8s to be used outside charm context. For instance it would be use to me now to run the get_pod_status() method from a python console passing in my juju model, app and unit. What do you think ?
[09:17] <Chipaca> bthomas: no objections
[09:18] <bthomas> What I am worried about is in the future if opslib picks up functionality that can only be run in a charm context (as is the case for operator framework) this will be problematic
[09:21] <bthomas> As far as I can tell all that is necessary is to allow inject of service account credentials which I can easly do
[09:24] <Chipaca> bthomas: which things in k8s depend on charm context today?
[09:25] <bthomas> Chipaca: I do not see anything that depends on charm context. However it does require service account CA and TOKEN.
[09:27] <bthomas> A developer/client can always creat their own service account, if the have admin access to the cluster. I would think they should be able to inject such service account credentials into the APIServer class in k8s to then use it to query the juju cluster
[09:28] <Chipaca> bthomas: wrt 'require service account ca and token', it's picking those up from disk, from their 'canonical' locations, isn't it?
[09:28] <Chipaca> ie not charm-related
[09:28] <Chipaca> or is that something juju does for charms?
[09:30] <bthomas> Chipaca: there is no /var/run/secrets in my host (ubuntu laptop) system. So I would expect that the service account details are coming from Juju or microk8s. Will dig a bit.
[09:36] <bthomas> kubectl -n lma exec prometheus-operator-0 -- ls /var/run/secrets
[09:36] <bthomas> shows that the service account details are available in the prometheus charm pods
[10:03] <Chipaca> my dog, fetching individual treats and scritches for each opcode, would still run test_main.py faster than windows does
[10:05] <bthomas> :)
[11:09] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:12] <Chipaca> that was a short day
[11:17] <bthomas> Good Morning
[11:43] <bthomas> Is there any method call in the Operator Framework that a charm needs to make in order to ensure that the juju init container runs to completion ?
[11:50] <Chipaca> bthomas: what do you mean by the 'juju init container'?
[11:51] <bthomas> Chipaca: when you deploy a charm juju creates a container called juju-pod-init. This is a kubernetes "init container". As far as I understand this must run to completion before other pods will start.
[11:51] <bthomas> opps i meant other containers will start
[11:58]  * bthomas breaks for lunch
[12:40] <facubatista> Chipaca, what we discussed: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/137
[12:40] <mup> PR charmcraft#137: Fixed global options behaviour <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/137>
[12:40] <facubatista> bthomas, reviews appreciated ^ thanks
[12:42] <bthomas> facubatista: looking now
[12:49] <bthomas> facubatista: args.verbose_global and args.quite_global seem to be exactly opposite things. So I do not understand why have both and use both.
[12:51] <facubatista> bthomas, the user needs the option to use one or the other
[13:22] <justinclark> Good morning !
[13:24] <facubatista> hello justinclark
[13:29] <bthomas> Morning
[13:50] <bthomas> Inside my operator charm pod the pip3 installed in /usr/local/bin/pip3 gives the error "AttributeError: module 'platform' has no attribute 'linux_distribution'" . Oddly enough even though dpkg -L python3-pip shows it has installed a pip3 at /usr/bin/pip3 when trying to run /usr/bin/pip3 I get the error "No such file or directory".
[13:50]  * bthomas is perplexed
[13:52] <bthomas> Any idea why there are two pip3's in a charm pod ? The one in /usr/local/bin/pip3 seems to be outdated.
[14:03] <Chipaca> bthomas: what put /usr/local/bin/pip3 there, and why are you even running pip3 on a charm pod
[14:05] <bthomas> Chipaca: I do not know what put /usr/local/bin/pip3 there. The pod is called prometheus-opeartor-0. I am install python modules to help in remote debugging of operator hooks.
[14:06] <Chipaca> bthomas: so does /usr/bin/pip3 actually exist? (or is it a dangling symlink)
[14:06] <bthomas> Chipaca: /usr/bin/pip3 does not exist
[14:07] <bthomas> Chipaca: Very Very odd that dpkg -l python3-pip reports that the deb is actually installed
[14:10] <bthomas> I can not find any other way to debug this charm. Without being able to get pip3 working I have to thow up my hands in despair.
[14:15] <Chipaca> bthomas: why not 'apt instlal --reinstall python3-pip'?
[14:15] <Chipaca> or the same without typos
[14:16] <bthomas> Chipaca: result = "Reinstallation of python3-pip is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.". I am going to retry after apt update
[14:17]  * bthomas does cartwheels
[14:17] <bthomas> updated followed by install worked
[14:17] <bthomas> Chipaca: still aren't there issues here that need to be reported or a bug filed ? If so would you like me to do it and where ?
[14:23] <Chipaca> bthomas: are these things in the operator pod, or the application pod?
[14:23] <bthomas> Chipaca: operator pod
[14:24] <Chipaca> bthomas: does sound like a bug yes
[14:25] <bthomas> Chipaca: if it is a bug report for our team I can create a bug report describing what I said above. Would you like me to do it ? If it is for another team I would rather you do it knowing more about the issue, but will be happy to help.
[14:29] <Chipaca> bthomas: it isn't for us, it'd be for juju probably
[14:38] <bthomas> Adding a pdb set_trace() call in a hook does not do anything. I would expect that it should have halted the charm hook execution at that point. I can actually see the hook being called by watching juju status .
[14:38] <bthomas> 😕
[14:41] <bthomas> Hmm. I tried adding my python modules to requirements.txt and find they are not installed in the operator pod. I guess this means they are only installed in the application pod.
[15:08] <Chipaca> bthomas: how are you building the charm?
[15:09] <bthomas> Chipaca: charmcraft build
[15:09] <Chipaca> bthomas: and where are you looking for those python modules?
[15:09] <bthomas> Chipaca: in prometheus-operator-0 where the charm.py file is located.
[15:10] <Chipaca> bthomas: and where in there?
[15:10] <bthomas> Chipaca: /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-prometheus-0/charm/src/charm.py
[15:13] <Chipaca> bthomas: and where in there are you looking for the libs?
[15:13] <bthomas> Chipaca: by launching python3 after kubectl exec -it -- /bin/bash
[15:17] <Chipaca> bthomas: try « PYTHONPATH=/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-prometheus-0/charm/venv python »
[15:17] <Chipaca> or rather python3
[15:17] <Chipaca> bthomas: « PYTHONPATH=/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-prometheus-0/charm/venv python3 »
[15:17] <bthomas> thanks will do
[15:26]  * Chipaca gets tea
[16:11] <mup> Issue operator#392 opened: Testing harness does not re-emit deferred event <Created by justinmclark> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/392>
[16:12] <justinclark> Here's the issue I mentioned during stand up today ^^
[16:16] <Chipaca> justinclark: thank you
[16:18] <Chipaca> 39 failed, 321 passed in 375.80s (0:06:15)
[16:18] <Chipaca> *SIX MINUTES*
[16:18] <Chipaca> grmbl
[16:18] <Chipaca> but also, only 39 failed :-D
[16:32] <bthomas> Chipaca: Can one expect k8s.get_pod_status() to return an empty dictionary if it is given valid model, app, and unit ?
[16:33] <Chipaca> bthomas: if everything is valid, it should not return an empty dict no
[16:34] <bthomas> Chipaca: Ok thinks. I am seeing an empty dictionary using pdb. But let us not get alarmed right now. I will try and dig a bit more for the rest of the day (although I really could do with a break for today :-) )
[16:48]  * Chipaca ← 34 failed, 326 passed
[16:52]  * bthomas Chipaca exercises windows muscle 💪
[17:02] <moon127> facubatista: thanks for the initial comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~moon127/charm-k8s-unifi-poller/+git/charm-k8s-unifi-poller/+merge/389643 - I added a response on the required settings code change, mainly as I'd tried it before and found juju deploying for real in microk8s behaved differently.  I could use some feedback on that.
[17:04] <bthomas> 🍛
[17:05] <facubatista> moon127, let me see...
[17:09] <facubatista> moon127, ah, oh, mmm... it looks like options are *always* there, but by default in ""? So probably it's a misname to search for "missing" values, better if we call them "emtpy"?
[17:09] <facubatista> moon127, are we sure that "" is never a valid value?
[17:11] <moon127> never valid value for my use case indeed
[17:12] <moon127> thanks for confirming I am not going mad!
[17:13] <moon127> you are right though if I don't explicitly declare the config option as at least "" in the test harness it does raise a KeyError... but I guess internally for real deployment as you say juju always has the option there.
[17:13] <Chipaca> while we can confirm that this particular instance is not evidence of you going mad, we do not mean to imply the more general statement
[17:14] <moon127> ha yeah true dat
[17:26] <Chipaca> down to 28 failures
[17:26] <Chipaca> and off for evening run + evening meal + evening evening
[17:26]  * Chipaca will bbl for more windows tests
[17:28] <facubatista> moon127, the tests should reflect reality, so I'm ok with your "not config['foo']", but let's just rename missing to empty, so when reading the code that's more clear; extra points for a comment
[19:24] <facubatista> Chipaca, and this is the other PR that I want for before release: https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/140
[19:24] <mup> PR charmcraft#140: Always log the charmcraft version when indicated <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/140>
[19:24] <facubatista> bthomas, justinclark, review appreciated ^ (thanks!)
[19:25] <Chipaca> facubatista: but does it run on windows
[19:25]  * Chipaca sets python.exe on fire and runs away
[19:25] <facubatista> Chipaca, of course
[19:58] <bthomas> facubatista: I had already reviewed and approved "Fixed global options behaviour". This looks like the same pull request with another commit "Always log the charmcraft version when indicated." I did a quick review of that. +1
[19:59] <facubatista> yes, it depends on the other one
[21:00]  * facubatista eods
[23:30] <Chipaca> 360 tests passed, 8 skipped (4 of those still need work)
[23:30]  * Chipaca EODs
[23:47] <drewn3ss> Is there a reason relation data must be a string in operator?  https://github.com/canonical/operator/blob/master/ops/model.py#L687
[23:47] <drewn3ss> I'm seeing historical code in reactive that works both with dict structures and strings.
[23:48] <drewn3ss> perhaps the code we used to use was providing the serialization on the backend and operator wants it done by the operator?  I'm seeing interfaces that prefer the deserialized data.
[23:49] <drewn3ss> (though handle both, thankfully)
[23:49] <drewn3ss> https://git.launchpad.net/charm-grafana/tree/src/reactive/grafana.py#n1120


[21:47] <TAsn> Hey guys. I'm having problems with geis. It seems that I'm not able to get any gestures on the root window. Is that know? does that make sense? Am I missing something?


 Mr. Fawad Bajwa is a full kameena insaan
[13:54] <Kilos> we want to revive pk on irc Dj
[13:54] <Dj> i msg him i send him emails tried to call him, sent him lot of messages on fb
[13:54] <pavlushka> Dj:So far I have experienced that being there is not enough, atleast it is true for me.
[13:54] <Dj> but that fat guy has no more interest here
[13:55] <Dj> then 14 years back i revive the ub ubuntu-pk.org and shutdown it because people were liking my articles ..
[13:55] <pavlushka> lol @ Dj
[13:55] <Dj> what the point to shutdown that portal ..
[13:56] <Dj> motay ko advocate bana rakha hay
[13:56] <Dj> sala kerta kuch hay nai
[13:56] <Dj> Junaid Saeed Uppal knows me pretty well...
[13:57] <Dj> he asked me lot of time to join team of linuxpakistan but i refused as i am married now and my life is busy
[13:57] <pavlushka> lol Dj, you are just married, not dead, :p
[13:58] <Dj> yeah i am married have to look into my IT business .. pdsoman.com :)
[13:58] <Dj> and also i am doing job in a Gas company .. so lot of issues over my head all the time
[13:59] <pavlushka> Ok, got it, but just be here and say yes, :p
[14:00] <pavlushka> do you know mustu?
[14:00] <pavlushka> DJ?
[14:00] <Dj> i know mustafa
[14:01] <pavlushka> Kilos: ?
[14:01] <Kilos> yes?
[14:01] <Dj> are you talking about ex-opesa
[14:01] <pavlushka> please help me with mustu.
[14:01] <Dj> and the guy from linuxpakistan ?
[14:01] <D-J> :D
[14:01] <D-J> powerrrrrrr
[14:01] <Kilos> you guys just invite more people here so this channel can come alive
[14:01] <Dj> who guys
[14:02] <Dj> O_o
[14:02] <Kilos> you Dj and pavlushka
[14:02] <pavlushka> Dj, you can check the irc logs of 23rd may, will you please?
[14:02] <Dj> hello are a nutt and wanted to screw me
[14:02] <Dj> Kilos i was you to proove you are be able to lead ..
[14:02] <Dj> go and get me 50 user here
[14:02] <Dj> then we will talk about it.
[14:02] <Dj> :D
[14:03] <Kilos> hahaha i am too busy with the rest of the world as well
[14:03] <Dj> isnt yeahhh
[14:03] <Dj> :D
[14:03] <Dj> Kilos how old are you
[14:03] <Kilos> my goal is to promote and grow ubuntu
[14:03] <Dj> pavlushka how old are you
[14:03] <Kilos> 65 in june
[14:04] <Dj> Kilos : you are making fucking money out of it.
[14:04] <Dj> :D
[14:04] <pavlushka> Dj, why?
[14:04] <Dj> i would like to make some money too
[14:04] <Kilos> nope
[14:04] <Dj> :D
[14:04] <Kilos> i am on the ubuntu membership board
[14:04] <pavlushka> Dj, tell  me how I can make fucking money out of it?
[14:04] <Dj> then i wanted to know, where are the ubuntu seminar promotion budget audit lists ..
[14:04] <Kilos> so we help new applicants
[14:04] <Dj> where i can grap a copy for loco team pl
[14:04] <Dj> pk
[14:04] <Dj> :)
[14:05] <Dj> i am with ubuntu since 5.10 i guess or may be older
[14:05] <Dj> :D
[14:05] <Kilos> long time
[14:06] <Dj> my launchpad karma used to be in 4 figures
[14:06] <Kilos> first ubuntu releases were hard work
[14:06] <Kilos> my karma is 0
[14:07] <Dj> yes
[14:07] <Kilos> working on LP is for young clever people
[14:07] <Dj> :)
[14:07] <Dj> :)
[14:07] <Dj> you ages Kilos
[14:07] <Kilos> 65 next month
[14:07] <Dj> this is nice
[14:08] <Dj> i am 34
[14:08] <Dj> so you are retired now
[14:08] <Dj> so what you are doing here
[14:08] <Dj> go get some beach holidays .. get coconut water .. try to preserve what is left with you.
[14:08] <Kilos> i told you it is my task to revive unused ubuntu channles
[14:09] <Kilos> lol
[14:09] <pavlushka> and What you will do Dj, you are just 34?
[14:09] <Kilos> channels
[14:09] <Dj> task given to you by 80 year old man ?
[14:09] <Dj> :D
[14:09] <Kilos> and locos that arent working smoothly
[14:09] <Dj> yes now you are on the point
[14:09] <Kilos> no man
[14:09] <Kilos> haha
[14:09] <Kilos> by the loco council
[14:10] <Dj> i want that this loco pk is just a fraud
[14:10] <Dj> i tried to chase that guy fawad riaz bajwa
[14:10] <pavlushka> Dj, if you can, then make it happen, why dont you?
[14:11] <pavlushka> Dj, no one is stopping you.
[14:11] <Dj> he always telling me conducting seminar here conducting awareness program there , but when i about to reach he cancel most of the time, physically nothing happening , all conducting in his dreams
[14:11] <Dj> nothing is happening
[14:11] <Dj> see ... if you just check my record of shipit.ubuntu.com
[14:11] <Dj> more or less 5000 CD's i distributed
[14:12] <pavlushka> Dj, make this "i want that this loco pk is just a fraud" happen
[14:12] <Dj> http://cache.page.tl/
[14:12] <Dj> this is one of the free page from year 2006
[14:12] <Dj> which can showed a foggy memory of what i have dont for ubuntu
[14:13] <Kilos> elacheche read
[14:13] <Dj> i even ran free linux shell service to promote ubuntu
[14:13] <Dj> even i gave the free classes to students
[14:13] <Kilos> Dj why have you never applied for ubuntu membership
[14:13] <Dj> i diplyed ubuntu in the pakistan navy projects
[14:13] <Dj> *deployed
[14:13] <Dj> i tried
[14:13] <pavlushka> then?
[14:13] <Dj> i applied once and i was been rejected .
[14:14] <Kilos> reason?
[14:14] <Dj> but fredora selected me
[14:14] <Dj> i dont know
[14:14] <Kilos> didnt the board give any reason or advice
[14:14] <Dj> nope
[14:15] <Kilos> you have records of your work for ubuntu?
[14:15] <Dj> i have some old free hosted pages
[14:15] <Dj> but now i am abroad
[14:15] <Dj> no more in PAkistan
[14:16] <Dj> yeah here i can organize the loco .... because here also so far no ubuntu work
[14:16] <Kilos> you still doing ubuntu work
[14:16] <Kilos> where are you now
[14:16] <Dj> I am here in Sultanate of Oman
[14:17] <Dj> and I work in Oman Gas Industrial Division
[14:17] <Kilos> i have to run guys but will be back
[14:17] <Kilos> thats great
[14:17] <Dj> :)
[14:17] <Dj> yeah
[14:17] <Kilos> have they a loco
[14:17] <Dj> i dont think so
[14:18] <Dj> but microsoft is having strong ground here
[14:18] <Kilos> we must keep in contact
[14:18] <Dj> i was invited for road map dynamics
[14:18] <Dj> and i am usually visiting all IT exhibitions also
[14:18] <Dj> trying to be promoter for fortigate
[14:19] <Dj> they offered me only by seeing my grip at the launching ceremoney
[14:19] <Dj> last year fortigate re introduced here in oman
[14:19] <Dj> i was the only guy with one hand in air
[14:24] <lominga> hi dear Dj
[14:24] <lominga> ill stay here
[14:24] <Kilos> hi lominga
[14:30] <Kilos> reboot needed here wbb
[14:36] <pavlushka> wb Kilos !
[14:37] <Kilos> ty pavlushka
[14:37] <pavlushka> Dj, is any of your server down, :p
[14:38] <pavlushka> Kilos: newsflash, I might work for Mozilla too, :p
[14:39] <pavlushka> Kilos: Seems like Mahay Alam Khan is interested in me, :p
[14:40] <Kilos> nice
[14:43] <pavlushka> Hello lominga !
[14:49] <Kilos> when will you know pavlushka
[15:00] <pavlushka> night guys!


[00:00] <jjohansen> ah, right let me look at the man page more carefully
[00:04] <jjohansen> txomon: va_dcl is a define brought in by #include "arargs.h" to define anything that the compiler may need for the old style varags
[00:04] <jjohansen> from vararhgs.h
[00:04] <jjohansen> +#if __GNUC__ == 3 && __GNUC_MINOR__ >= 3
[00:04] <jjohansen> +#define	va_dcl			__builtin_va_alist_t __builtin_va_alist;
[00:04] <jjohansen> +#else
[00:04] <jjohansen>  #define	va_dcl			__builtin_va_alist_t __builtin_va_alist; ...
[00:04] <jjohansen> +#endif
[00:05] <jjohansen> so it may expand to nothing, or it can expand to some attributes to tell the compiler the function is using varages
[00:06] <jjohansen> I think it is only ever used on implementations that are using varargs.h instead of stdarg.h
[00:07] <txomon> oki
[00:08] <txomon> so is just something weird and outdated that I shouldn't take care off?
[00:08] <txomon> s/off/of
[00:10] <jjohansen> txomon: mostly yeah, if you are using varags.h you'll need it, but you should probably be using stdarg.h instead
[00:12] <txomon> ok, ty very much
[07:01] <smb> diwic, And I was just about to ask myself... :)
[07:50]  * apw yawns
[07:50]  * smb waves
[07:52] <ppisati> morning
[07:52] <apw> morning!
[08:15] <bryceh> hiya apw
[08:15] <apw> bryceh, hiya, late for you
[08:19] <bryceh> apw, unfortunately, not really (baby)
[08:19] <apw> ahh jj syndrome :)
[08:20] <bryceh> :-)
[08:30] <ppisati> so guys, according to the "kernel team new world order" i can't pull req till next week, right? (i mean the new topic branches discipline)
[08:34] <apw> ppisati, if they have asked you to prepare something, and its prepared i think you can ask anytime no?
[08:37] <ppisati> apw: didn't receive any notification... let me see if reading all the emails help
[08:38] <apw> smb, have they actually told you how they will tell you when there are derivative brach updates to do?
[08:38] <smb> apw, ppisati Not exactly. I guess the hope is that I won't miss the bugmail... but  Iam not convinced
[08:39] <smb> Last time I asked because I saw an upload message, there was none needed...
[08:40] <ppisati> anyway, the new omap4 kernel boots, has video working, etcetc and i wanted to give it to the arm people - i'll put a kernel pkg binary on people.* and push it to zinc so they can start tinkering with it
[08:40] <ppisati> rsalveti: ^
[08:41] <apw> ppisati, sounds good.  this is for oneiric ?
[08:41] <ppisati> yep
[08:41] <apw> ahh the new world order doesn't apply to that
[08:41] <apw> send away
[08:41] <ppisati> i want top dequeue ASAP so i can concentrate on the slow usb i/o thing
[08:42] <ppisati> doh!
[08:42] <ppisati> ok, pull req coming
[08:47] <apw> ppisati, slow usb> yeah that one is pretty odd, i think smb poked it a bit dunno if he had any insite to help get you started
[08:48] <smb> apw, Not too much but we talked about that yesterday
[08:48] <apw> smb, good enough
[09:26] <apw> RAOF, was it you who was asking me about mainline drm builds yesterday?
[09:50] <RAOF> apw: Yes, it was.
[09:50] <RAOF> apw: I haven't tried them yet; I want to see if those commits fix a bug where my external monitor gets permanently turned off.
[09:51] <apw> so remind me of the issue, the logs imply there has been no updates for a while now
[09:51] <apw> are we using teh wrong trees again ?
[09:56] <siji> smb, hi
[10:00] <apw> RAOF, ^^
[10:01] <RAOF> apw: The tree that I looked in FTBFS in ecryptfs
[10:01] <apw> oh really, hrm, which one
[10:02] <RAOF> I'm looking at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/drm-intel-next/current/ whose COMMIT suggests that it contains the commits I'm after…
[10:10] <newb> hi
[10:10] <newb> I have a trouble in compile module...
[10:10] <newb> can anybody help?
[10:10] <apw> RAOF, seems that the ecryptfs boys have screwed the pooch
[10:11] <RAOF> Superlative
[10:11] <apw> will see if i can coax that option off and rebuild
[10:11] <RAOF> Of course, I *have* an ecryptfs filesystem.
[10:12] <RAOF> Just to make this super awkward.
[10:13] <newb> can anybody help my problem?
[10:13] <newb> my problem is same as here: http://www.incentivespro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214
[10:13] <newb> If I compile my module, It says
[10:13] <newb> scripts/mod/modpost: 1: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
[10:13] <txomon> newb, syntax error
[10:14] <txomon> try in #c
[10:14] <txomon> if here nobody answers
[10:14] <txomon> bye!
[10:14] <RAOF> I guess I could just suck it up, cherry-pick those commits, and build a kernel locally.
[10:14] <newb> it is not a syntax error in my program...
[10:14] <newb> my program can compiled in my host PC
[10:14] <newb> I'm compile the module in target Embedded board
[10:15] <apw> newb, hm
[10:15] <RAOF> Different /bin/sh on your host and embedded?
[10:15] <ogra_> s/Embedded board/panda/
[10:15] <newb> yeah, pandaboard
[10:16] <apw> newb so on the machine which failed what does 'file scripts/basic/fixdep' say
[10:16] <ogra_> i sent newb here and asked him to compile natively instead of cross with the right headers installer
[10:16] <ogra_> which i would have expected to work ... but apparently it causes that sytax error
[10:17] <ogra_> *headers installed
[10:17] <newb> first scripts/basic/fixdep is failed but
[10:18] <apw> newb, i don't think i understand what you mean there?
[10:18] <newb> Right now, I compile a module in Pandaboard
[10:18] <newb> And I install the kernel package linux-headers-2.6.38-1209
[10:18] <newb> linux-headers-2.6.38-1209-omap4
[10:19] <newb> linux-image-2.6.38-1209-omap4
[10:19] <newb> And then, I compile the module I wrote
[10:19] <newb> But it fails with scripts/basic/fixdep error
[10:19] <newb> So I tried "make modules_prepare" in /usr/src/linux-header forder
[10:19] <newb> but that command also fails...
[10:20] <apw> ok and on that system where the failure is occuring, what does 'file scripts/basic/fixdep' say
[10:20] <newb> Syntax error
[10:20] <newb> After the failure of "make modules_prepare", the error changed to "scripts/mod/modpost"
[10:21] <apw> no i mean the literal command, something like 'file /usr/src/*/scripts/basic/fixdep' what does _that_ command say
[10:23] <newb> you mean that command is "make modules_prepare"??
[10:24] <apw> no i want you to run the command 'file /usr/src/*/scripts/basic/fixdep' on the system which is failing the build and tell me what the output is
[10:24] <apw> if its long you could pastebin the output
[10:25] <newb> It was
[10:25] <newb> scripts/basic/fixdep: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
[10:25] <apw> newb, no i really, really mean i want you to run the _new_ command i am giving you, not the old output
[10:26] <newb> sorry...
[10:26] <newb> I'll try
[10:27] <newb> I can type...
[10:28] <apw> newb if you have netowkr on the machine you can use pastebinit to upload the output
[10:28] <rsalveti> ppisati: I'd ask you to wait until tomorrow
[10:29] <rsalveti> ppisati: as tomorrow is the release date for the kernel at linaro
[10:29] <rsalveti> then you'll be getting the kernel from 11.08 release
[10:29] <rsalveti> ppisati: and as I said, you'd need to revert one patch to make sgx to work
[10:29] <newb> it says: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-1208-omap4/scripts/basic/fixdep: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, not stripped /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-1209-omap4/scripts/basic/fixdep: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, not stripped
[10:29] <rsalveti> ppisati: where is your dev tree?
[10:30] <newb> apw: this is the output
[10:30] <apw> newb and if you run that /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-1208-omap4/scripts/basic/fixdep directly, does it say Syntax error?
[10:30] <newb> there is no syntax error i think
[10:30] <newb> that is whole output
[10:31] <newb> the compile error is changed to modpost...
[10:31] <apw> newb i mean if you now additionally try and run the fixdep binary on the command line does it error
[10:32] <newb> additionally try and run the fixdep binary??
[10:32] <apw> what does executing /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-1208-omap4/scripts/basic/fixdep say
[10:33] <newb> Usage: fixdep <depfile> <target> <cmdline>
[10:33] <ogra_> looks fine
[10:33] <apw> ok so that fixdep is ok
[10:33] <newb> ah
[10:33] <apw> and is a native binary as expected
[10:34] <newb> is it okay fixdep?
[10:35] <apw> newb, i think the Syntax error from the attempt to run fixdep is most likely caused by the fixdep it is running not being a binary for the machine you are compiling on
[10:35] <apw> the system things its not a binary so it tries to run it as a shell script, and it errors
[10:35] <newb> I execute /script/mod/modpost and it says cannot execute binary file
[10:36] <apw> and does that file exist and if so what does the command 'file <name>' on that file say
[10:37] <newb> It says executable, Intel 80386...
[10:37] <newb> I think it is not arm binary
[10:37] <apw> ok so that will not run on your arm machine indeed.  what is the full filename to that file
[10:38] <newb> filename:  /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.38-1209-omap4/scripts/mod/modpost
[10:38] <ppisati> rsalveti: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ppisati/ubuntu-oneiric.git ti-omap4
[10:39] <ppisati> rsalveti: the pull req is already out, i'll reissue another one when the next update hits
[10:39] <apw> newb, and who built the headers you have installed ?  was that us or you?
[10:39] <rsalveti> ppisati: ok
[10:39] <newb> me
[10:39] <newb> use dpkg-buildpackage
[10:39] <apw> newb, and where was it built? on the board or cross-compiled
[10:40] <ppisati> rsalveti: BTW, there're some new options about video&c (like OLD_VIDEO_$something) and that prevents some other DSS options to be turned on
[10:40] <newb> CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- do_tools=false dpkg-buildpackage -B -aarmel -uc -us
[10:40] <newb> cross-compiled
[10:41] <ppisati> rsalveti: when you compile the new kernel you'll see some warnings, revire it and tell me what i have to turn on/off
[10:41] <apw> newb, ok so you can only use cross-compiled kernels to cross-compile external modules and you need to use a native build kernel to native build external modules
[10:41] <ppisati> rsalveti: s/revire it/review them/g
[10:41] <apw> as the headers packages you are using contain copies of the binaries which are needed for the build, like modpost
[10:41] <rsalveti> ppisati: sure
[10:41] <ppisati> rsalveti: cool, thanks
[10:42] <newb> yes
[10:44] <newb> so what i have to do?
[10:45] <apw> use nativly compiled headers if you are compiling on the board and cross-compiled headers on your cross-compile environment
[10:46] <ogra_> just build on the panda
[10:46] <ogra_> that excludes such issues
[10:46] <ogra_> for a single module that wont make much difference in build time
[10:46] <apw> but you must use native header packages to do that, not ones you cross-compiled
[10:46] <newb> the compile of kernel in panda takes too long time....
[10:46] <ogra_> you want only a new module
[10:46] <ogra_> no need to compile the kernel
[10:47] <apw> just use the one from the archive
[10:47] <newb> I need to change kernel too
[10:47] <apw> then you need to build both in the same place
[10:47] <newb> I need to use gpmc in pandaboard
[10:47] <apw> then you need to compile both your kernle and your external module in the very same environment
[10:47] <newb> so I need to modify kernel
[10:48] <rsalveti> ppisati: do you have a bug already for the issue with pulseaudio consuming 100% of the cpu?
[10:49] <rsalveti> ppisati: when using natty we also had that issue, as described by bug 816638
[10:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 816638 in linaro-ubuntu "Pulseaudio consumes 100% of the cpu when trying to play a sound with natty's linaro LEB and 3.0.0-1402-linaro-lt-omap " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816638
[10:49] <rsalveti> but I still didn't reproduce with oneiric, so would be good to have your results
[10:50] <ogra_> newb, just out of curiosity, what are you using gpmc on a pandaboard for there is no flash ?
[10:50] <newb> I want to connect FPGA
[10:50] <apw> RAOF, ok the issue for your build is that the new ecryptfs stuff is starting to use a new symbol from security/keys/encrypted.c, which means that if ecryptfs =y then that module needs to be =y, and it is =m and so its not there and blammo no buildy
[10:50] <ogra_> ah
[10:51] <apw> RAOF, now as it is a new requirement it is not obvious if you are able to move ECRYPTFS_FS=m for your test build then life will be ok
[10:52] <siji> apw, any updates on the Bug #824589
[10:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 824589 in ubuntu "improper Touch Screen Driver module(for arm beagleboard) for TSC2046 in the Expansion board,and it connect with DM3730 by SPI port ." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824589
[10:53] <apw> RAOF, so if you want that specific build you should be able to take a linus tree, git reset --hard to the sha1 in COMMIT, apply the patches in the directory, update the config and build the result
[10:58] <ppisati> rsalveti: nope, no bug yet
[11:00]  * ppisati -> lunch
[11:09] <siji> smb, ping
[11:49] <smb> siji, Hi
[11:50] <siji> hi
[11:50] <siji> sorry for bothering you
[11:50] <siji> Just want to clarify something regd. kernel building
[11:50] <smb> siji, Sure, just ask away
[11:51] <siji> I am trying to build it from my host PC(for omap3 beagle)
[11:52] <siji> And downloaded the kernel source from kernel.org , config file from ubuntu natty (/boot/config-2.6.38-8-omap
[11:53] <siji> so just want to confirm that if i did make modules with cross-gcc will it generate the module ?
[11:55] <smb> siji, You should generally be able to cross compile. But when you took the kernel source from upstream (which is 3.1-rc2 right now) the question is what version is running on your arm board. This may be completely incompatible
[11:56] <siji> smb, I think i have downloaded the right version
[11:56] <siji> my arm kernel is 2.6.38-8
[11:57] <siji> (ubuntu natty -omap3)
[11:57] <smb> ppisati, Probably has the latest runes how to set up the cross compile part correctly, but still. Is there a reason you did not take the git tree from kerne.ubuntu.com for natty and changed to the ti-omap3 branch?
[11:57] <smb> siji, ^
[11:57] <siji> cose i think there is some bug in the desired module (ads7846)
[11:58] <smb> Hm, actually natty already seems to be ti-omap4...
[11:58] <siji> ok
[11:58] <siji> actually the rootstock already built the the desired kernel module
[11:59] <siji> but failed to insert it
[11:59] <siji> Bug #824589
[11:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 824589 in ubuntu "improper Touch Screen Driver module(for arm beagleboard) for TSC2046 in the Expansion board,and it connect with DM3730 by SPI port ." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824589
[12:00]  * smb looks at the report
[12:00] <smb> siji, Those kind of failure sounds like the module was build with the wrong headers somehow...
[12:01] <siji> smb, right but i have build it by rootstock
[12:01] <smb> siji, I think I am not sure what you mean with rootstock
[12:01] <siji> smb, sorry
[12:02] <siji> rootfile system building tool
[12:02] <smb> Ah
[12:02] <smb> Probably something doing a chroot to build
[12:03] <siji> right
[12:03] <siji> and there is a option in rootstock tool to build the kernel image too
[12:03] <siji> which generated those modules
[12:05] <smb> There seems to be something wrong with the tool or its usage then... But to get me correct, this driver is in the ubuntu kernel code and just not enabled or you need a newer version of it?
[12:06] <siji> the driver is there in the ubuntu kernel source +it has generated the loadable module
[12:06] <siji> smb, you understood ?
[12:07] <smb> hmm, I try to parse... I may be a bit slow today...
[12:07] <siji> ok :)
[12:09] <siji> actually rootstock tool with the parameter linux-omap generated the RootFile System with initird and vmlinux of 2.6.38-8-omap
[12:10] <smb> My confusion is that you said, that you got the kernel.org code and try to compile the module. The first question to me somehow is: why in the first place do you need the module compiled. You said there is a bug. So the original kernel package has the module but it does not work
[12:10] <siji> ah ,got it
[12:11] <siji> So you mean this bug is not only for ubuntu kernel
[12:13] <siji> smb, what you will recomend ?
[12:13] <smb> Well maybe or maybe not. But generally its hard to claim it a bug when you try your own compile and it does not work as expected. At least not against a distro. You can say the module does not work and needs to be fixed or does not exist and should be enabled
[12:14] <siji> ok
[12:19] <smb> siji, And even just for giving help, there is a lot of information missing. Like the exact release and kernel version you are running. Where the module in question comes from, why it was made. Just looking at the content of the bug report there is unfortunately more questions open than answered.
[12:19]  * smb notes that we here may know how to compile kernels but have to mind-reading powers ;)
[12:21] <siji> smb, I assumes ubuntu-arm natty  is enough to indentify the kernel version
[12:21] <smb> siji, There are updates
[12:22] <smb> It is clear that it is 2.6.38 but not exactly which upload
[12:22] <siji> ya may be .But this is build by rootstock for me
[12:25] <smb> Yeah, but as I do not know what it is, I cannot say what it does exactly ... And what it takes as a source
[12:26] <smb> The module disagress about symbol could be wrong headers or slightly different configuration in something used by the module
[12:44] <tgardner> ppisati, are you ready for me to upload the meta package for oneiric ti-omap4 ?
[12:45] <tgardner> ppisati, never mind, just saw your email
[13:06]  * herton has to run an errand in business hours, back in 1h hopefully
[13:27]  * smb notices with some relief that assigning the topic branch tracking bug to him does make the notification go into a bucket which is not overflowing with other stuff..
[13:35] <apw> smb, heh something works then
[13:35] <smb> yep
[14:45] <bjf> tgardner, ogasawara : http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/_kernel_hot_.html
[14:46] <bjf> tgardner, ogasawara : this is the start of a "kernel hot list"
[14:46] <ogasawara> bjf: cool, I'll take a look
[14:46] <ogasawara> bjf: AM column stands for ?
[14:46] <bjf> ogasawara, "Affects Me"
[14:47] <ogasawara> ah, thanks
[14:47] <tgardner> bjf, is the AM column the metric that makes a bug 'hot' ?
[14:47] <bjf> tgardner, ogasawara : bdmurray clams that "heat" is working better, i'll be adding a "heat" column and if it works i may drop the CO SU AM columns
[14:48] <ogasawara> bjf: ack
[14:48] <tgardner> bjf, how is heat measured?
[14:48] <bjf> tgardner, ogasawara : we'll run with them all for a bit
[14:50] <bdmurray> tgardner: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/database/schema/trusted.sql#L1846
[14:50] <bdmurray> tgardner: the calculation is right there
[14:51] <tgardner> bdmurray, so I merely have to mark my bug private and a CVE to bump it to the top of the list.
[14:53]  * ogasawara back in 20
[14:56] <bdmurray> tgardner: yes that'd do it
[15:00] <tgardner> bdmurray, given that private bugs and CVE's generally come to us by fairly direct routes, does it make sense to have them in the hot list ?
[15:01] <bdmurray> tgardner-afk: well the same calculation is used for every package and project in Launchpad so I'd say yes
[15:08] <tgardner> bdmurray, well, I can sort bjf's page by column, so it makes it easy to ignore CVEs at least.
[15:08] <bjf> tgardner, apw wanted the cve's on the list
[15:09] <bjf> tgardner, there will be _no_ private bugs on this list as it is a public list
[15:09] <tgardner> bjf, well, I can sort such that I can ignore apw as well
[15:09] <apw> tgardner, yeah mostly as there actually should only be a couple on there as we only have a couple open... i need to clean them up and this will help
[15:10] <tgardner> bjf, so this is gonna get updated regularly ?
[15:11] <bjf> tgardner, every 30 minutes the list is refreshed, the data is refreshed more frequently than that
[15:12] <bjf> tgardner, there is also a mechanism in place to add a specific bug to the list, right now the list is based off of several tags
[15:14] <bjf> tgardner, the tags currently tracked are: "kernel-key", "iso-testing", "pc-cert", "kernel-cve-tracking-bug"
[15:14] <tgardner> bjf, ack
[15:16] <ogasawara> bjf: is there a tag to use to remove a bug from the list?
[15:17] <bjf> ogasawara, no
[15:18] <bjf> ogasawara, if it were tagged and on the list because of "kernel-key" you could remove the tag, but other than that, no
[15:38] <brendand> sconklin - is it still the case that the natty kernel will be respun?
[15:39] <sconklin> as far as we know, yes. HWE is still working with upstream as far as I know. Status has not changed since the last email status update.
[15:40] <apw> sconklin, is there a kernel with the relevant patches reverted?  i have a machine with a display regression in -11 and want to make sure its the same issue
[15:42] <sconklin> apw: talk with vanhoof. I believe that there are only a very limited number of machine configurations which exhibit this and if you have the same problem, you could be helpful for testing
[15:44] <herton> apw: if it is related to i915, I have some built kernels here, with patches reverted: http://people.canonical.com/~herton/lp814325
[15:44] <herton> but built amd64 only
[15:47] <apw> herton, ok i suspect i am i386, but i also am not any of the suspected platforms
[15:47] <vanhoof> apw: some sort of corruption? ... can you correct w/ cycling dpms?
[15:47] <sconklin> apw, herton: My understanding is that for the platform which was reported, the problem still exists upstream, and that if you revert the patch which seems to have introduced it, you lose graphics on all Sandy Bridge platforms. So we're waiting until we understand it before we do anything
[15:48] <apw> nope mine is a black-screen in X, damn
[15:49] <herton> sconklin: if we revert that patch we reintroduce bug 791752
[15:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791752 in linux "Can not toggle Display to External only mode " [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791752
[15:49] <sconklin> herton: right
[15:50] <vanhoof> which impacts SandyBridge as a whole
[15:51] <apw> but that isn't a regression from the previous version, so thats ok
[15:54]  * apw is unsure it makes sense to hold every other fix in the tree while one decides.  the problem which it fixes is in the kernel out there, and will be the same in the kernel with the revert, so is it not safe to revert and release while we wait for the fixed fix
[15:56] <ppisati> smb: i found another bug related to the clk on omap4, but it didn't fix the i/o problem... crap...
[15:56] <herton> apw: it is a regression, on -proposed kernel
[15:56] <smb> ppisati, Suboptimal... But hey, another bug bites the dust... :)
[15:57] <apw> herton, which the 791752 itself or the bug introduced by its fix
[15:57] <herton> right
[15:58] <apw> herton, that was an OR question
[15:58]  * smb giggles
[15:58] <vanhoof> apw: on my end its just a question of the bigger win, the regression really does seem like a corner case, on a relatively niche subsystem of machines
[15:59] <apw> herton, was 791752 a regression in -proposed, or only the breakage by its fix
[15:59] <vanhoof> however, a regression is a regression, is a regression :)
[15:59] <apw> vanhoof, well thats not what policy says even if you are right
[15:59] <herton> apw: only the breakage by its fix
[15:59] <apw> ok so its broke in -updates and without the fix its broke in -updates, so i am wondering why we are sitting there waiting for upstream to possibly maybe fix it, rather then either reverting or releasing
[16:01] <herton> apw: now I'm confused. 791752 doesn't look a regression, but a bug in natty. the fix for it brought a regression (bug 814325)
[16:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 814325 in linux "fuzzy and corrupted display with update in natty-proposed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814325
[16:01] <ppisati> smb: yeah, if i keep this pace, sooner or later i'll find the right bug :)
[16:02] <smb> ppisati, And the panda won't jump into ones face when trying a simple upgrade... :)
[16:03]  * herton -> lunch
[16:09] <tjaalton> herton: exactly, the -proposed fix is for 791752, which affects every SNB machine using the built-in gfx. and what vanhoof said
[16:09] <tjaalton> ah, gone
[16:13] <apw> tjaalton, right but they are broken already, and not having the fix doesn't change that
[16:13] <vanhoof> apw: also as a side note, the regression introduced exists in 3.1 mainline as well
[16:14] <vanhoof> apw: worth noting, its not natty specific
[16:14] <apw> vanhoof, yes but its not in the kernel in -updates
[16:14] <apw> so you have to have a really good reason to introduce that regression to those users
[16:15] <vanhoof> apw: fair enough, we'll see what more we can turn up today, and I'll update you all again on where we stand
[16:15] <vanhoof> right now its not clear if its limited to the T510 + hybrid graphics + intel as default gpu OR arrandale + hybrid graphics + intel as the default gpu
[16:16] <apw> so we have no idea as to the size of the regression, thats not a positive
[16:16] <vanhoof> well we have a decent sizing, however this configuration isn't exactly prevalent, so a bit tricky to track down testers
[16:17] <vanhoof> I can tell you everything else is not exposed ;)
[16:17] <vanhoof> give us the day to see what more can be turned up, and we can take it from there
[16:25] <jjohansen> so my 7 year rode his bike into a tree on the morning running, its been an interesting morning so far
[16:27] <smb> jjohansen, hopefully not too badly ran into it. Kid and tree surviving?
[16:28] <jjohansen> smb: yeah, the tree got the better of him, though I must say from the moaning he is still doing he thinks he is dying
[16:29] <jjohansen> really just a few good scraps, nothing quite as good as his face plant though
[16:29] <apw> jjohansen, heh, as long as he doesn't start throwing up
[16:30] <jjohansen> apw: yeah, that would make things worse
[16:30] <smb> jjohansen, I guess it can feel rough. Though its sometimes hard to say where the pain stops and making use of the situation starts...
[16:31] <jjohansen> oh I am pretty sure he is into the making use of the situation
[16:31] <jjohansen> his moans got quite a bit loader when mommy came in :)
[16:32] <smb> jjohansen, Help, this wound needs a substantial amount of sweets to mend. :)
[16:32] <jjohansen> hehe, yeah
[16:33] <apw> jjohansen, heh typical, tells you he is fine then
[16:34] <apw> jjohansen, you need some "well if you are sick we can't have <favourite dinner>, it'll have to be gruel"
[16:35] <jjohansen> apw: sadly he already know what dinner plans where for the night, but perhaps we can use dessert as the lever :)
[16:53]  * smb -> gone
[17:00] <kobrien> Evenin'. I'm trying to boot kernel version 3.0 under Ubuntu 11.04 amd64. After I select it in grub, I'm presented with a purple splash which never goes away. I never get further than this. Any ideas on how to fix?
[17:02] <apw> kobrien, you'd want to turn of graphical splash and see if if you can get some diagnositics
[17:04] <apw> kobrien, which would be editing the command line in grub2, change the =$linux_gfx_mode for =text and then remove quiet splash and replace that with debug
[17:04] <apw> kobrien, oh and the vt.handoff=xxx bit as well, get rid of that
[17:08] <kobrien> apw: thanks, I'll try that now
[17:23] <apw> ogasawara, ok i've just pushed a major update to the devel config summary tools for use for next UDS
[17:24] <ogasawara> apw: awesome, was actually just going to start shoving bits in a wiki for some of the P specs
[17:24] <apw> ogasawara, we need some work on the OVERRIDES which i'll try and do a bit of tomorrow
[17:25] <apw> ogasawara, but we only shove it in raw anyhow.  once you have the config blueprint and spec i can shove in an early one from your tree
[17:25] <ogasawara> apw: cool
[17:26] <ogasawara> apw: I'm also not sure how much more of the module config review I'll be able to knock out between now and kernel freeze, so I'll likely carry that over to P as well
[17:26] <apw> ogasawara, well, i am inclined to think of things out of policy as a bug, so not really subject to the freeze
[17:27] <ogasawara> apw: most are usually powerpc changes, so as long as it builds I'm not too worried.
[17:27] <apw> ogasawara, even more so as they are only a ports port
[17:28] <ogasawara> apw: I was also going to ask if we should rip out the ppc64 bits
[17:28] <ogasawara> apw: as I recall that was a one time thing for natty?
[17:28] <ogasawara> apw: or is there value for us to carry that along
[17:29] <apw> ogasawara, there is a possibility we may need then i suspect, and they are easier keep in and maintain as we go through the rebases
[17:29] <apw> we should definatly drop them in 12.04 if we've not used them by then
[17:29] <ogasawara> apw: ack, definitely no pain in carrying them, I hardly notice most of the time
[17:44]  * tgardner --> lunch
[17:48] <ogasawara> apw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelPConfigReview - empty spec template for now, but feel free to throw any bits there
[17:48] <apw> ogasawara, will do
[18:26] <apw> ogasawara, initial update in the spec
[18:26] <ogasawara> apw: ack, thanks
[18:26] <apw> i'll try and remember to update it regularly going forward
[19:04] <herton> tgardner: are you still looking at  the chromium lockup on lucid? I'm curious if with environ patch not reverted, but with the oops fix applied we still get a hang, and if yes, if it's on kernel (sysrq-w could help). Only place I can see it could may be deadlock because of that patch, would be getting the cred_guard_mutex, or task_lock inside get_task_mm (although get_task_mm was being used before in environ_read)
[19:06] <tgardner> herton, I was able to get both symptoms, the lockup as well as the oops. I could try just the oops fix just to be sure.
[19:07] <herton> I think would be good to check, just in case
[19:32] <apw> tgardner, if you could let me know any testing results there as i have looking at why thats bust tommorrow on my list
[19:32] <tgardner> apw, k
[19:33] <herton> tgardner, apw: the oops fix (commit 76597cd upstream) should go into natty master-next as well. hardy doesn't need it, checking here the backport doesn't patch m_start with ERR_PTR
[19:37] <herton> do you think I should see with sconklin and respin the lucid/maverick kernels, or can we wait? (I would respin maverick with the oops fix, and lucid with the revert + oops fix)
[19:37] <tgardner> herton, lemme verify lucid first
[19:38] <tgardner> herton, oops fix applied to natty
[19:39] <herton> ack
[19:49]  * jjohansen -> lunch
[20:06]  * ogasawara wonders who won the race to push to the repo, me or tgardner
[20:06]  * ogasawara guesses I won since I had no conflicts
[20:07] <tgardner> ogasawara, I'm thinking you did too.
[20:07] <tgardner> ogasawara, but I also pushed an updateconfigs commit afterwards
[20:08] <ogasawara> damn, I thought I ran an  updateconfigs after rebasing
[20:09]  * kamal is cheering at the finish line \o/ in celebration of mjg59's backlight patch finally landing!
[20:11] <kamal> tgardner, ogasawara: thanks!    mjg59: super-duper-ultra-bright-thanks!
[20:34] <apw> tgardner, was it you who was complaining about the two handed alt-tab alt-down thing ?
[20:34] <tgardner> ogasawara, seems like you just did 3.02, and now greg has already released 3.0.3
[20:34] <ogasawara> sheesh, already?
[20:34]  * ogasawara rebases
[20:34] <tgardner> apw: not me. that would imply a sophisticated use of the keyboard.
[20:35] <apw> must have been jjohansen :)
[20:35] <jjohansen> yeah I hate that
[20:36] <jjohansen> I do complain about it almost daily lately
[20:36] <jjohansen> what I really hate is unity not letting me turn it off, even when resolving conflicts in ccsm
[20:37] <apw> jjohansen, well ccsm does have a keybinding for it, and moving it to alt-` seems to be _much_ less annouing
[20:38] <jjohansen> apw: hrmm I hadn't thought about that
[20:38] <jjohansen> now if I could only get to ccsm, unity layering issues strick again
[20:39] <apw> jjohansen, i think thats the osx binding :/
[20:40] <jjohansen> s/strick/strikes/
[20:40] <jjohansen> apw: how am I not surprised
[20:41] <jjohansen> apw: that is much better thankyou
[20:41] <apw> jjohansen, yeah at least one can single digit it
[20:42] <apw> though this thing shows empty spaces for iconified windows ... sigh
[20:43] <jjohansen> ewww
[20:50] <apw> jjohansen, i have filed like 8 bugs in two days :(
[20:51] <jjohansen> apw: yeah I keep finding them because you beat me to filing them
[21:00] <tgardner> herton, I've backed out the revert for CVE-2011-1020 on Lucid. It appears that that the oops fix is the right patch.
[21:00] <ubot2> tgardner: The proc filesystem implementation in the Linux kernel 2.6.37 and earlier does not restrict access to the /proc directory tree of a process after this process performs an exec of a setuid program, which allows local users to obtain sensitive information or cause a denial of service via open, lseek, read, and write system calls. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2011-1020)
[21:02] <herton> tgardner: oh, cool. So I think we can go forward then and respin just with the fix, and hardy shouldn't be affected and can be released
[21:02] <tgardner> herton, correct
[21:03] <herton> ok, I'll "reopen" hardy tracking bug etc.
[21:07]  * tgardner -> EOD
[21:15] <apw> herton, thats good news, the revert not being required, just the extra fix ...
[21:16] <herton> yep
[21:24] <jjohansen> rebooting


[00:46] <pwnguin> is this an appropriate channel to discuss free/nonfree inclusion of documentation?
[00:47] <pwnguin> bug #32042 is about openGL documentation
[00:49] <LaserJock> pwnguin: what did you want to discuss?
[00:50] <pwnguin> well, I'd like to see the bug fixed
[00:51] <pwnguin> but i haven't seen anything representing a decision. they're technically non free as is, because of a requirement to notify SGI if you are made aware of an IP claim by a third party
[00:52] <pwnguin> does ubuntu regularly NOT tell copyright holders when sued?
[00:52] <ScottK> It doesn't matter really.
[00:53] <ScottK> pwnguin: The best solution is to make a separate -doc package and put it in Multiverse.
[00:53] <pwnguin> the only developer comment in that bug is that it cannot be distributed =/
[00:54] <pwnguin> ScottK: if mesa is in main, wouldn't it be restricted?
[00:55] <ScottK> If it can't be distributed, then it can't go in at all.
[00:55] <ScottK> Restricted has some very special things that go in it.  I'd expect it's in multiverse if at all.
[00:56] <pwnguin> as far as my lay interpretation of the troublesome clause goes, it's not a restriction per se on distribution
[00:56] <pwnguin> just an additional burden
[01:01] <fta> stgraber, would you accept this: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/pastebinit-01-ubuntu.patch ? and this (on top) http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/pastebinit-02-mozilla.patch ?
[01:43] <awen_> would it be appropriate to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors for a patch like bug 200750 ? ... or should i rather try contacting the last uploader of the package instead
[01:52] <ScottK> awen_: Don't we still need python-uniconverter in Ubuntu first?
[01:53] <ScottK> awen_: Then generic answer though is subscribe ums.
[01:53] <awen_> ScottK: it got included a few days ago
[01:53] <ScottK> awen_: Launchpad doesn't seem to know about it that I can find.
[01:53] <awen_> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-uniconvertor
[01:54] <ScottK> I see LP search functions are working as well as usual.
[01:55] <ScottK> IIRC bryce is involved in inkscape and might be good to ask too.
[01:57] <awen_> okay, thanks ... i've subscribed ums anyway though
[01:59] <awen_> bryce: if you are involved in inkscape and have a minute, please have a look at the above
[05:41] <TheMuso> /c/c
[06:51] <slangasek> ScottK: right, well, I guess I'll roll back hal and see what that gets me for starters
[09:17] <emgent> morning
[09:25] <tseliot> emgent: morning
[09:25] <emgent> heya tseliot
[09:25] <emgent> :)
[09:31] <Riddell> pitti, doko: four MIRs needed for KDE 4 when you have time
[09:35] <stgraber> fta: Both patches look good, are those done for the current version in Ubuntu or the version we have in bzr ?
[09:43] <emgent> Riddell: heya
[10:02] <Riddell> hi emgent
[11:38] <Riddell> it's another european holiday today? they just had one!
[11:39]  * TheMuso is wondering why -devel is so quiet.
[11:40] <Riddell> Whit Monday apparantly, guess they're all in church
[11:40] <Ng> they?
[11:40] <Ng> are we not european now? ;)
[11:41] <Riddell> not so you'd notice by the different numbers of bank holidays :)
[11:42] <Spads> The UK is in Africa, clearly.
[11:44] <\sh> at least it's such a nice day for doing merges and drinking some beer at home ,-)
[11:47] <TheMuso> Hrm. Is it just me, or is launchpad taking a while to respond to http requests?
[11:47] <\sh> TheMuso: here too...at least launchpadlibrarian
[11:47] <TheMuso> \sh: Yeah thats what I'm trying to access as well.
[11:50] <\sh> TheMuso: it's doomed ;)
[11:51] <TheMuso> \sh: heh I just managed to get the diff I wanted, so I'm fine for now.
[11:51] <\sh> TheMuso: fun,..me too :)
[12:07] <pochu> not a holiday in Spain :(
[12:25] <hwilde>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
[12:25] <hwilde> /dev/sdb1               1       19458   156289848+  42  SFS
[12:25] <hwilde> what is filesystem SFS ?  it won't mount with ntfs
[12:29] <cjwatson> SFS is partition type (hex) 42
[12:29] <cjwatson> doesn't necessarily correspond to the filesystem actually on that partition
[12:29] <cjwatson> use 'sudo vol_id --type /dev/sdb1' to find that out
[12:30] <hwilde> "/dev/sdb1: unknown volume type"
[12:30] <hwilde> I guess that's their fault for letting windows merge their partitions
[12:30] <hwilde> who knows what that did
[12:33] <hwilde> cjwatson, do you know Simon
[12:33] <hwilde> Tatham
[12:34] <\sh> sabdfl: nice post about "The Art of Release"
[12:35] <cjwatson> hwilde: yes, why?
[12:37] <hwilde> because putty freakin rules
[12:37] <hwilde> chiark++
[12:38] <cjwatson> putty is indeed superb, that's why I maintain its Debian package ;-)
[12:38] <\sh> sabdfl: but one thing you forgot: "How do we get other software vendors like adobe to test and release and support their enterprise software for Ubuntu LTS versions"...I do think as an example of Adobe Flash Media Server...
[12:40] <hwilde> cjwatson, any way to control the display font tho?  it's too big
[12:44] <cjwatson> hwilde: sure, -fn, or ctrl-rightclick -> Change Settings -> Window -> Fonts -> Change...
[12:46] <hwilde> cjwatson, I mean in the putty window itself.  before you connect
[12:46] <hwilde> I have the profile set for the terminal windows
[12:47] <hwilde> it's like 14pt font size
[12:48] <cjwatson> that's just whatever GTK's defaults are - however, ability to configure this consistently with the rest of the system should improve once the GTK2 port of putty finally lands, which should be fairly soon
[12:48] <cjwatson> (assuming this is Linux putty rather than Windows putty; I don't know much about the latter)
[12:49] <hwilde> ooo gtk2
[12:50] <hwilde> gtk-theme-switch seems to do it :)
[12:53] <fta> stgraber, against ubuntu, there was no Vcs-Bzr in debian/control
[12:54] <fta> stgraber, I have a small fix too: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/pastebinit-03-fix.patch
[12:57] <stgraber> fta: https://code.launchpad.net/~pastebinit-developers/pastebinit/trunk
[12:59] <TheMuso> c
[12:59] <TheMuso> ugh
[13:00] <\sh> TheMuso: ugh?!
[13:01] <TheMuso> \sh: Meant for my mutt window.
[13:02] <\sh> TheMuso: doesn't mutt make "whee" instead of "Ugh"? ;)
[13:02] <TheMuso> \sh: heh
[13:04] <fta_> stgraber, if you prefer, i can branch that and you'll just have to merge
[13:06] <stgraber> fta_: yes, that or a patch based on the current bzr revision would rock. I don't have a lot of time to spend on pastebinit but I plan to push a new version in Ubuntu for Intrepid if David or someone else don't send it to Debian before
[13:07] <fta_> ok, i'll do that then
[13:15] <sabdfl> \sh: yes, we have some work to do in getting the ISV's to embrace our release cycle
[13:15] <sabdfl> though LTS's are a pretty obvious target for them
[13:16] <\sh> sabdfl: yes...even that adobe is not playing nice with rhel in general...anyways..this is really what's missing for serious "non webserver mass rollouts of ubuntu" ;)
[13:22] <maswan> \sh: There is alot of other enterprisy software/hardware that I'd like to see support for over anything from adobe, but then I'm not doing much consumer-related stuff. :)
[13:23] <hwilde> how about visio :)
[13:23] <maswan> hwilde: what's that?
[13:23] <hunger> Could somebody push the perl stuff that is still build against the old perl version into the build queue again, please?
[13:23] <hwilde> that's the only proprietary thing I haven't been able to hack yet.
[13:23] <hwilde> like flowcharts and stuff.  (think dia)
[13:23] <\sh> hwilde: visio is just nice with the Datacenter Planning Plugin ;)
[13:24] <hwilde> \sh, gimme
[13:24] <cjwatson> hunger: if it's already built successfully, it needs a developer to reupload (with build1 versioning, or incrementing the number after ubuntu if it's modified)
[13:24] <cjwatson> we don't have a way to do that automatically
[13:24] <maswan> hwilde: ok, never used it. I'd just like vendor support for ubuntu connected to tape libraries, etc
[13:24] <hwilde> maswan, now that dell is offering preinstalled we will see an increase in vendor support
[13:25] <hunger> hwilde: Try kivio. It works ok, even though it does not have too many stencils.
[13:25] <maswan> hwilde: they are doing that in the server space now?
[13:26] <\sh> maswan: yes, there are more software/hardware things to support...but right now, those FLV streaming stuff is the way to go...and seeing that ISVs who are supporting their software for RHEL or SLES only it's depressing me..because most of the software runs just fine on debian/ubuntu..but you are stuck with support from the ISVs when running on non-supported OS..and OS doesn't mean "Linux in General" but "RHEL" or "SLES" and not "LTS" ;)
[13:27] <\sh> hwilde: dell is not pushing ubuntu on servers...not right now, it's sad...I would like to see e.g. HP or IBM to push their hardware (especially blade stuff) with ubuntu..because it just works
[13:27] <hwilde> maswan, scheduled to announce Q1 next year  http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4557593896.html  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/16/dell_ubuntu_servers/
[13:27] <maswan> \sh: I know, I know.
[13:27] <fta> stgraber, done: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/pastebinit/trunk  Please review and pull :)
[13:28] <\sh> maswan: btw...did you already had hands on the new areca sata raid crack?
[13:28] <maswan> \sh: I just see a different set of software/hardware section, and adobe is very far from anything I run or want to run. :)
[13:29] <\sh> maswan: well, of course, oracle is the other needed ISV who needs to be switched to Ubuntu ;)
[13:29] <hwilde> but then ubuntu is going to be bogged down with all their overhead
[13:29] <hwilde> i'm glad there is no oracle
[13:31] <maswan> \sh: nah, just get all ibm's stuff and I'll be happy, TSM, DB2, hw support, GPFS, etc. :)
[13:32] <\sh> maswan: hmmm? ibm hs20 blades are running just fine on Ubuntu ;)
[13:33] <\sh> well it's old...
[13:34] <\sh> maswan: but I can assure, that IBM is testing their HW also on ubuntu and debian...at least that is what a friend is doing here in germany
[13:46] <andrew___> So far as I can tell, vinagre can't do IPv6, but vino requires it in order to do local VNC connections.  If this is a bug, which package should I report it in?
[13:48] <\sh> andrew___: vinagre
[13:48] <andrew___> Thanks, will do.
[13:49] <\sh> but I wonder what's the difference between ipv4 and ipv6 despite the difference between 32 and 64bit addresses.
[13:49] <andrew___> The difference in what sense?
[13:49] <cjwatson> err, significant; there are books on the subject
[13:50] <hwilde> vino does not require v6 for local connex, I do it all the time
[13:50] <andrew___> hwilde: Strange - can you confirm that `netstat --inet -lpn` includes vino in it?
[13:50] <\sh> cjwatson: hmm..not in that case..I thought glibc gives you a nice compat mode for connecting to ipv4 or ipv6 addresses
[13:51] <cjwatson> \sh: to some extent, but it's not entirely trivial
[13:52] <\sh> cjwatson: oh joy...at least on the application level we shouldn't make the change more difficult ;)
[13:52] <cjwatson> it can't be made a complete drop-in replacement
[13:52] <hwilde> andrew___, wow it is using v6 !  I didn't even realize I had it enabled
[13:52] <hwilde> andrew___, tcp6       0      0 *:5900                  *:*                     LISTEN     5461/vino-server
[13:52] <hwilde> tcp6       0      0 mpro:5900               mpro:38308              ESTABLISHED5461/vino-server
[13:52] <andrew___> :)
[13:53] <andrew___> You might want to look at ip6tables then - it's probably not firewalled.
[13:53] <hwilde> eh
[13:53] <hwilde> i'm not scurred
[13:54] <andrew___> iptables is IPv4 only.  If you've got IPv6 enabled, you need to use ip6tables to firewall your IPv6 connections.
[13:54] <\sh> cjwatson: I'm damned...not only I have to take care about the routers and kernels but also on the apps....not only damned, I'm somewhat doomed...
[13:54] <hwilde> or I could just not care
[13:54] <andrew___> More relevantly though, which VNC client are you on?
[13:54] <andrew___> Fair enough.
[13:54] <hwilde> andrew___, I just typed vncviewer
[13:55] <cjwatson> \sh: it might be a novel idea to read up on it before panicking
[13:55] <hwilde> novel idea to read up on it    lol nice pun
[13:55] <andrew___> Ah, okay.  So it's still a bug in vinagre.
[13:55] <andrew___> Thanks.
[13:55] <cjwatson> hwilde: unintentional :)
[13:56] <hwilde> I was going to say, it's a bit early for that :)
[13:57] <\sh> cjwatson: we are doing some migration tests...so I'm not panicking...but I have to extend our tests
[13:57] <\sh> regarding some non standard aps
[13:57] <\sh> apps even
[13:58] <ScottK> \sh: You have upstream IPv6 connectivity?
[13:58] <\sh> ScottK: we are playing with ipv6 connectivity...but for production stuff, no
[13:58] <ScottK> OK.
[13:59] <ScottK> \sh: Yes.  You'll need to test all the apps in an IPv6 environment.  It's not at all transparent.
[13:59] <\sh> ScottK: there are some other issues I have to take care about first...e.g. php crc32 implementation ;)
[14:00] <cjwatson> \sh: IPv6 has been in a chicken-and-egg situation for a long time; it hasn't been worth ISPs' time as long as OS vendors don't support it well (and as long customers aren't asking for it), and it hasn't been worth OS vendors' time to support it as long as ISPs don't
[14:00] <cjwatson> so I'm all for the deadlock being broken
[14:00] <cjwatson> but yes, as ScottK says it isn't a trivial migration by any stretch of the imagination
[14:01] <ScottK> Just teaching an app I'm upstream for to do IPv6 CIDR matches was enough pain for me for a while.
[14:01] <\sh> cjwatson: I know...when I started to play with ipv6 <-> ipv4 tunnel ISPs...it went bad...but tbh, it's time to get ipv6 out of the kindergarden
[14:01] <\sh> ScottK: oh well, just explain people ipv4 cidr..it makes them stupid again...people think only in classes :(
[14:03] <sebner> \sh: well, it's also time to get 64bit out of the kindergarden -.-
[14:04] <maswan> \sh: yes, but for some things "supported" is rather important. not just "works".
[14:05] <\sh> sebner: tell MS ... that's why we have to fight with win32 on x86_64 still
[14:07] <sebner> \sh: it isn't that a big step but there will always be people that are complaining that app xy isn't working. /me ist just happy hat nexuiz is running on amd64 =)
[14:08] <\sh> maswan: when I read about the last ripe ipv6 meeting and googles attack on it, I wonder when we accomplish the change from 32 to 64...we all know changes are difficult and painful...
[14:10] <\sh> sebner: regarding developers, 32bit vs. 64bit is a big step..many devs are not knowing the difference between (pointer)(int) and (pointer)(long) on 32 and 64bit archs....even today...
[14:10] <wgrant> \sh: This is why we have cluebats.
[14:10] <cjwatson> \sh: BTW, IPv6 addresses are 128-bit, not 32-bit
[14:11] <\sh> cjwatson: not 64
[14:11] <cjwatson> err ... "not 64-bit"
[14:11] <cjwatson> yes
[14:11] <\sh> yeah.../me has a beer too much in his system ;)
[14:11] <\sh> no coincidence...but "one bit too many" ;)
[14:12]  * \sh should go and prepare the asparagus
[14:13] <\sh> Can't use string ("2/8") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at debian/file-actions.pl line 40, <JL> line 23. oh joy
[14:14] <maswan> cjwatson: we have been doing ipv6 testing here at ACC, and as of the last 2-3 years or so base OS support has been there, and the last 1-2 years have had "most" application support working too.
[14:14] <cjwatson> maswan: yeah, it's just been gradual rather than a strongly-coordinated effort
[14:15] <cjwatson> (with all due respect to people like fabbione who've been pushing for it for a long time)
[14:15] <cjwatson> and I rather suspect that network-manager doesn't have great IPv6 support ...
[14:15] <maswan> cjwatson: the thing that worries me is that the 2011 date is getting closer and they aren't pushing it back to "5-10 years from now".
[14:15] <wgrant> NM works fine with stateless autoconfig, but not sure about other kinds.
[14:16] <cjwatson> that's the address exhaustion time?
[14:16] <maswan> cjwatson: yeah
[14:16]  * wgrant doesn't know of any consumer .au ISPs that provide native v6 :(
[14:16] <Ng> +projected
[14:17] <cjwatson> my ISP is still going LA LA LA NO URGENCY
[14:17] <TheMuso> a/c
[14:17] <wgrant> cjwatson: They all are.
[14:17] <\sh> cjwatson: I'm more concerned about the routers (say juniper, cisco to name the big guns)...you could come over some problems with ipv4 tunnels regarding testing/fixing time .. but even our routers are not behaving with ipv6
[14:17] <maswan> wgrant: last time I checked, static setup was a pain. we haven't tried it on hardy though, the hack in network/interfaces with pre-up and up-hooks to disable autoconf was working
[14:17] <wgrant> cjwatson: It's ridiculous.
[14:17] <maswan> Ng: well, yeah. I'm just worried because we're getting close and the projections aren't getting (significantly) pushed back.
[14:18] <ScottK> Lack of IPv6 just means they can charge more for IPv4 addresses.  I'm not sure why an ISP would invest money to avoid that.
[14:18] <wgrant> ScottK: That's a good point.
[14:18] <\sh> ScottK: because ripe e.g. as european ip registry has a policy to not pay for ip addresses...at least when I was member of ripe
[14:19] <ScottK> So your ISP gives you unlimited static IPs for no extra cost?
[14:19] <maswan> ScottK: Well, when procurement of connectivity for organisations include "ipv6 connectivity" as a requirement
[14:19] <\sh> ScottK: setup fee is ok...but not for the ips
[14:20] <Ng> maswan: there are a bunch of really huge ipv4 allocations that are extremely old and unnecessary, which could be reclaimed
[14:20] <Ng> I think HP have 3 /8s, two of which are from aquisitions
[14:20] <ScottK> maswan: As an organizatin, why would I want to raise my contract cost to get that?
[14:20] <ScottK> Ng: Yes, but even reclamations don't help a huge amount in the long run.
[14:20] <\sh> ScottK: for my new rootserver I have 8ip network for free...and more then that, I'll have to pay a setup fee ...well, it's a different wording, but fulfills ripes rules
[14:20] <Ng> ScottK: the almost universal lack of adoption suggests that ipv6 doesn't either
[14:21] <maswan> Ng: Technically they can be reclaimed, can they legally?
[14:21] <\sh> Ng: Daimler Benz has one or two /8 too... and they don't need it
[14:21] <andrew___> My concern is that this could become another Y2K media event - "experts say the Internet will crack asunder on June 2, 2011 at 8:34 GMT, releasing Shub-Internet from its 30 year sleep".
[14:21] <Ng> \sh: exactly, and there are a bunch of others
[14:21] <maswan> Ng: It seems more likely to create a market where you can buy/sell adresses..
[14:21] <cjwatson> ScottK: some organisations seem pretty keen on getting Mobile IPv6 in place; the US DoD seems to be one such
[14:22] <ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.  US DoD is a major exception and they're big enough to get it done.
[14:22] <Ng> maswan: how? I can't sell my ADSL's IP to you, it's assigned to my ISP by RIPE
[14:22] <maswan> Ng: No, you can't currently. But RIPE can't revoke that assignment either, so your ISP has it forever, unless they choose to return it..
[14:23] <ScottK> cjwatson: US DoD also has a large IP multicast deployment in place.  I don't know of anyone else who's pulled that off yet either.
[14:23] <\sh> maswan: ripe can revoke
[14:23] <\sh> maswan: they did it once even for a /16 for my old company
[14:24] <ScottK> maswan: There is a reclamation process, but it's slow and painful.  We'll probably run out before a significant fraction of the theoretically doable reclamations could be done.
[14:24] <\sh> maswan: but "names do count"
[14:24] <maswan> \sh: Ah, so there is a process. Could it work if your company had said "no" and kept announcing them?
[14:24] <cjwatson> ScottK: they're also driving a certain amount of the hardware and software fixes, which is the only way the chicken-and-egg problem is going to get resolved
[14:25] <\sh> maswan: as I said, "names do count" ... so if you have a name like "Daimler"..they won't start revoking
[14:25] <maswan> \sh: or "deutsche telekom" for that matter..
[14:25] <persia> ScottK: Quite a few of the multinational financial institutions have large IP multicast, often with negotiated multi-network transfer.
[14:25] <ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.  This is true, but I think getting the hardware/software working is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for getting deployment.
[14:25] <ScottK> persia: Oh.  I did not know that.  Thanks.
[14:25] <cjwatson> ScottK: agreed
[14:26] <maswan> ScottK: The likely outcome of v4 exhaustion I think is a trading model and layer upon layer of NAT. With some growing v6 adoption over time, just because it becomse less painful.
[14:26] <cjwatson> layer upon layer of NAT> and stuff becoming less and less reliable as a result, but since we've all been trained to go "oh, whatever, restart connection" ...
[14:26] <andrew___> Is there any data yet on how good Vista's IPv6 is in the real world?
[14:27] <maswan> andrew___: AFAIK, it "just works" on the client at least.
[14:27] <maswan> andrew___: much like ubuntu since dapper
[14:27] <maswan> (or possibly earlier)
[14:28] <andrew___> That's good, at least.
[14:28] <\sh> maswan: yepp....but they can claim to be a ISP
[14:29] <\sh> maswan: I wonder if DTAG or DAIMLER or AS701/AS702 are paying more then just the normal ripe fee
[14:29] <\sh> (ok AS701 is ARIN)
[14:30]  * \sh is an old fart regarding AS numbers
[14:33] <\sh> hmm..AS702 is now verizon...in former times, as701 and as702 were uu.net america, uu.net europe
[14:33] <TheMuso> /c/c
[14:34] <andrew___> cjwatson: is this a good time to ask my SSH question?
[14:35] <\sh> andrew___: why do you not fire away?
[14:36] <andrew___> Because... I might be wrong :s
[14:36] <\sh> andrew___: we have hobbsee to tell someone who is wrong or not ,-)
[14:36] <andrew___> Hehe.
[14:36] <cjwatson> andrew___: sure
[14:37]  * Hobbsee loosk in
[14:37] <andrew___> If I allow an untrusted user to log in to my machine, who can't forward local, remote or X connections, and is given a specific command instead of a shell, what security problems do I need to be thinking about?
[14:37] <Hobbsee> \sh: who am i telling who's wrong?
[14:37]  * \sh waves to LPS aeh Hobbsee
[14:39] <cjwatson> andrew___: make sure you've set all the no-* listed in sshd(8)
[14:39] <cjwatson> andrew___: but otherwise that can be made secure providing that you're certain there's no way to cause the command in question to do anything unexpected given arbitrary input
[14:39] <cjwatson> people have set up anonymous CVS servers that way, for instance
[14:39] <cjwatson> (who don't trust pserver)
[14:40] <\sh> who's in charge for running MoM to be up2date?
[14:41] <andrew___> The plan is that the command do some initial negotiation, then listen on port 5900 (to forward a VNC session back to the client's computer) or /var/run/screen/.../some-unix-socket (to forward a screen back)
[14:42] <andrew___> Where the unix socket in question is decided by the program, with no input from SSH.
[14:43] <cjwatson> what happens if that port is already in use?
[14:43] <andrew___> VNC servers normally use 590*.  I think some use 5901 for X :1, 5902 for X :2, etc.
[14:44] <andrew___> I suppose I could do that transparently to SSH as well.
[14:44] <cjwatson> you'd have to return the port number then
[14:45] <andrew___> I was thinking I'd pipe it all through SSH's standard input/output, and the client would redirect it to the relevant port/socket on the client.
[14:45] <andrew___> (Which could even be IPv6, going back to the earlier discussion)
[14:46] <andrew___> I suggest that because I'm not aware of any other mechanism to only allow an SSH client to forward a specified port.
[14:53] <tmmoyer> is there any documentation on how to build udebs for the installer? I know how to build a traditional package for a running system, but I need to add a package to the installer and haven't seen anything on building udebs
[14:54] <TheMuso> tmmoyer: You could have a look at how existing udebs are packaged.
[14:54] <tmmoyer> okay
[14:59] <evand> tmmoyer: This may also be of help: http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2006/debconf6/slides/Debian_installer_workshop-Frans_Pop/paper/index.html#id2535340
[14:59] <ScottK> \sh: I think the plan is to work on it during UDS (MoM).
[14:59] <tmmoyer> evand: yes I just found that when I expanded my search to include debian as well thank you for the help
[15:00] <\sh> ScottK: -ETOOLATE ... let's run mom as it was...and try to merge mom with dad on a different server?
[15:00] <cjwatson> \sh: MoM is running, it's just having trouble getting a consistent archive because the archive is loaded
[15:00] <andrew___> cjwatson: on the other hand, I see I'm wrong about that :).  How much information do people actually need to share in order to be reasonably confident that they've transmitted the correct RSA key?  Would the cksum/md5sum be any use?
[15:01] <cjwatson> andrew___: err, sorry, now I'm lacking context. Why would people be transmitting RSA keys?
[15:01] <\sh> cjwatson: well the last update was on the 7th...and all the syncs and merges were not recognized...if it's because of leningradskaya...ok ;)
[15:02] <andrew___> cjwatson: If you want to log in with a public key (RSA keys being shorter than DSA keys, therefore quicker to check), and want to confirm over the phone that you've got the correct key.
[15:02] <cjwatson> andrew___: use the fingerprint; I've had people reading those out over the phone and it's fine
[15:03] <andrew___> Thanks, that's enough to keep me going for a while :)
[15:03] <andrew___> I expect I'll be back at some point with a blueprint to annoy people with.
[15:05]  * \sh is off now.....guests are in da house....african party now ;)
[15:06] <emgent> re
[15:12] <andrew___> cjwatson: actually no, I'm not explaining myself right.  If client and server have never connected before, you need a safe way of transmitting the client's public key to the server, and I'm thinking of doing a password-based login, sending the public key, then logging out and back in again with the public key.  I'm worried about a situation where Mallory intercepts the SSH connection from the client, logs in to the serv
[15:12] <andrew___> er, and sends her own public key, allowing her to do an MITM attack on the later session.
[15:13] <andrew___> Would confirming the server's RSA fingerprint guard against that?
[15:13] <cjwatson> the purpose of the host key check is to guard against man-in-the-middle attacks
[15:13] <cjwatson> so yes, it would; a middle-man attacker would be unable to forge the server's host key
[15:14] <andrew___> Okay, good.  Thanks again.
[15:14] <cjwatson> how are you transmitting the passwords around?
[15:14] <andrew___> Telephone.
[15:14] <cjwatson> ok
[15:14] <cjwatson> you have to bootstrap trust somehow :)
[15:14] <andrew___> Yeah :)
[18:03] <Dane2> Hello, all.  I've been trying to cross-compile asterisk (compiling i386 binary using amd64 distro) using pbuilder/dh_make/debuild, but I keep getting the following error after the compile completes, and it's about to make a binary package: "build_tools/mkpkgconfig: 34: cannot create /usr/lib/pkgconfig/asterisk.pc: Permission denied"
[18:03] <Dane2> any ideas?
[18:04] <Dane2> I've asked on the #asterisk channel, and they said it's a distro specific thing, so I'm trying here.  :-)
[18:05] <jdavies> Dane2: I think #ubuntu-motu may be a better place :-)
[18:05] <Dane2> ok.  Thanks.
[20:04] <emgent> heya people
[20:44] <johanbr> If I wanted to get a patch into ubuntu to run various cron tasks (locate etc) less often than daily, what would be the recommended way of doing that? Debconf question at low priority?
[20:48] <cjwatson> johanbr: debconf isn't a very good interface for that sort of choice, really - you'd end up typing crontab entries into it as a string, which would be awful. Why not just edit /etc/crontab? It's a conffile and so your edits will be preserved - that's the supported way to change this.
[20:49] <cjwatson> also, mixing debconf and conffiles is bad, so in order to offer debconf configuration it would have to stop being a conffile for everyone else, which would introduce a lot of complexity - probably too much for a low-priority tweakable.
[20:51] <johanbr> cjwatson: I see, thanks. But with editing crontab, changing the interval of only a few daily tasks seems to be complicated.
[20:55] <johanbr> But on closer inspection, none of the /etc/cron.daily jobs seem to necessarily need to be run daily, at least for me. So I may just do that. Thank you.
[20:59] <emgent> heya sabdfl
[20:59] <emgent> :)
[21:00] <cjwatson> johanbr: yes, if you needed that you'd need to split cron.daily up somehow. run-parts has a --regex option that might help.
[21:07] <arekm> hello, how do you separate own commits from upstream one in git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git repo?
[21:41] <kirkland> cjwatson: I see that you were the last person to merge/upload yaboot-installer.  i merged for intrepid, in case you want to review and upload.
[21:42] <cjwatson> kirkland: thanks - can you send me mail to remind me?
[21:42] <cjwatson> I probably won't get to it tonight, but can certainly review
[21:43] <kirkland> cjwatson: you bet, will do.  it's no rush.  i'll leave in my home dir on chinstrap.
[21:49] <andrew___> reportbug-ng is Debian-specific - it doesn't check for bugs filed with Ubuntu.  Is that a bug or a reason to remove the package altogether?  If the latter, who do I talk to about it?
[21:49] <beuno> andrew___, maybe some ubuntu users want to check for debian bugs?
[21:50] <geser> or use it to file bugs in Debian
[21:51] <andrew___> So you reckon I should file a bug saying that it should warn more clearly about not being a useful Ubuntu tool?
[21:52] <beuno> andrew___, nope, I think it's fine as-is
[21:53] <ScottK> andrew___: Reportbug has been patched not to report to Debian by default.  Same magic should be done to reportbug-ng if it isn't already.
[21:53] <beuno> ScottK, really?   what does it do then?
[21:53] <andrew___> ScottK: Either it's not, or the magic went wrong with the bug I filed :)
[21:54] <ScottK> By default it sends mail to ubuntu-users or something reasonably useless.  You have to tell it specifically you want to report to Debian.
[21:54] <ScottK> andrew___: Then it needs to be fixed up like reportbug.
[21:55] <beuno> hrm  :/
[21:55] <ScottK> Unfortunately LP doesn't expose sufficient API to actually allow reportbug to be modified to do something useful in Ubuntu.
[21:56] <andrew___> I'll have a poke about and complain that -ng is insufficiently crippled.
[21:56] <ScottK> Just make sure you complain to Ubuntu, not Debian '-)
[21:56] <andrew___> I don't suppose I can report bugs against some test package that blackholes the report?
[21:56] <andrew___> :p
[21:57] <andrew___> (So I can do a test and describe the reportbug UI)
[21:57] <ScottK> You can control what happens to the mail via your local MTA is the best thing I can offer.
[21:58] <andrew___> Yeah, good plan.
[21:59] <cjwatson> andrew___: (noted smiley, but) afraid not; bugs against unknown packages in bugs.debian.org typically end up in my inbox so I'd be unhappy about that plan ...
[21:59] <cjwatson> though there is a debbugs-test pseudopackage, but it's really more for debbugs developers to test, rather than a general-access sandbox
[22:00] <andrew___> Fair enough, I'll disable anything that looks like it could talk SMTP before I play around with it.
[22:04] <ScottK> andrew___: It wasn't you that reported a bug against skype in Debian recently is it?
[22:07] <andrew___> No, Vinagre.
[22:08] <ScottK> OK.  At least it's a package that's in Debian.
[22:39] <pochu> andrew___: that's bug 175508. No worries for the Vinagre bug :-)
[22:40] <andrew___> Thanks :)
[22:41] <andrew___> I was halfway through writing a thing with suggested fixes - is that still useful?
[22:43] <pochu> andrew___: I'll probably look at changing it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>unless you have a better proposal, so yes, that will be useful
[22:43] <pochu> good night