[07:29] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:30] <lotuspsychje> DemomanCA: explain the details of your issue here please
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> DemomanCA: also idle & patient a bit, as volunteers might still wakeup at this time
[11:32] <DemomanCA> Thanks lotuspsychje, so I have a fresh 18.04 install, 2 network interfaces together in an LACP bond. Interface works fine on boot, grabs IPv4 and IPv6 address from my DHCP server, all good. However, any time systemd-networkd restarts, the network stops working. Main causes are systemd updates or if I change a config and run sudo netplan apply. No idea where to start troubleshooting
[11:32] <DemomanCA> this....
[17:21] <muhaha> Anyone is using OpenID,SAML for login to Ubuntu ?
[19:03] <Delvien> Changed /etc/hostname, and entries in /etc/hosts and still cant get ubuntu server to change its hostname. what am I missing?
[19:04] <tomreyn> dhcp
[19:05] <Delvien> its statically set
[19:05] <tomreyn> which ubuntu release is it?
[19:05] <Delvien> 18.04.1
[19:05] <tomreyn> does "hostnamectl status" report what you expect it to report?
[19:06] <Delvien> Static hostname is correct, transient hostname shows old one?
[19:07] <Delvien> did a hostnamectl set-hostname, gonna reboot see if it sticks this time
[19:07] <tomreyn> i would quote the man page but it's a bit long
[19:08] <Delvien> and it reverted again
[19:10] <tomreyn> hmm, how did you install?
[19:10] <teward> did you edit /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg and make sure yo uset preserve_hostname from 'false' to 'true'?
[19:12] <teward> if you used the live installer it might do evil things like this if you reboot and revert the hostnames after you make changes
[19:13] <Delvien> i did live installer, but preserve_hostname is set to false
[19:14] <teward> set it to true
[19:14] <teward> it should now stick
[19:14] <Delvien> OHhh i see
[19:14] <Delvien> man things have changed for ubuntu server since the last time i used it
[19:15] <teward> cloud-init is an annoying piece of [CENSORED REDACTED CENSORED] and if that file is present in the install it can cause headaches
[19:15] <teward> nah it's a subiquity / live installer ISO headache
[19:15] <teward> if you use the alternate installer it still works as normal
[19:15] <Delvien> yeah had to fix the damn sources too
[19:15] <teward> though you still need to hostnamectl and such
[19:16] <Delvien> Ahhh that did it
[19:16] <Delvien> thank god, i was about to switch back to fedora server lol
[19:18] <powersj> teward, have you filed a bug against subiquity for this behavior?
[19:18] <teward> powersj: IIRC this is known cloud-init behavior
[19:18] <teward> not subiquity
[19:19] <powersj> that doesn't mean subiquity is doing the right thing
[19:19] <teward> true, but i haven't filed a bug yet, no.
[19:19] <teward> E:TOOBUSY
[19:20] <teward> powersj: also, since I use a modified 18.04.1 template to deploy all my servers, or I'm doing per-system manual installs, or installs that're LXD container based... I don't have the issue anymore
[19:20] <teward> so i've never gotten around to it :P
[19:28] <teward> powersj: assuming I don't forget, should I file a bug against cloud-init or subiquity in this case?
[19:28] <teward> because it sounds like subiquity needs to adjust the cloud config but doesn't.
[19:28] <teward> and I haven't tested the 18.10 or 19.04 dailies yet to see if they exhibit the same behavior
[19:30] <powersj> teward, I'd say start with subiquity
[19:30] <teward> ack
[19:30] <teward> powersj: would i have to do that from a live session or would filing from my 18.04 install suffice?
[19:30] <teward> at least for the `ubuntu-bug` stuff
[19:30] <powersj> your install is fine
[19:32] <teward> oh... that's unusual
[19:32] <teward> $ ubuntu-bug subiquity
[19:32] <teward> dpkg-query: no packages found matching subiquity
[19:32] <teward> :|
[19:33] <teward> guess i'll do it manually then
[19:37] <teward> powersj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subiquity/+bug/1809155 <--
[19:38] <powersj> teward, thanks!
[19:39] <NyanCat> ... Anyone know where I can find auth.log or like, anything else?
[19:39] <NyanCat> my /var/log is uncomfortably empty
[19:41] <sarnold> did you happen to mount other filesystems over it?
[19:41] <sarnold> or are you currently 'in' a namespace without populated directory?
[19:41] <NyanCat> No, it's a brand new system
[19:41] <NyanCat> There are files *in* /var/log, just not auth.log, syslog or kern.log
[19:42] <teward> powersj: five monopoly bucks says it's a cloudinit headache problem :P
[19:43] <NyanCat> Should probably mention that this is OVH's 16.04 ARM template
[19:43] <NyanCat> Which is already stupid annoying to begin with as it's missing some very basic packages
[19:43] <NyanCat> but I can't imagine why they'd have taken out logging
[19:47] <tomreyn> hdn't ovh signed this agreement not to modify ubuntu images?
[19:47] <NyanCat> I'm missing quite a few things by the looks of it, TBH
[19:48] <NyanCat> I was able to read the sshd logs with journalctl but that's not really a replacement (IMO) for auth.log
[19:48] <NyanCat> I'm gonna send in a ticket asking them 'the hell they're doing
[19:49] <tomreyn> there used to be this https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4ov74y/ovh_founder_on_twitter_canonical_is_attempting_to/
[19:49] <teward> tomreyn: did they?  Was that enforced with Canonical Legal?
[19:49] <teward> if it was we can go bash OVH with a hammer... :P
[19:49] <tomreyn> i don't remember the final outcome, but have a hunch they agreed to the terms in the end.
[19:50] <NyanCat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TUpJsg4e/
[19:50] <NyanCat> for anyone curious though there's the directory structure in /var/log
[19:50] <tomreyn> is this a VM or dedicated?
[19:50] <NyanCat> It's a dedicated server
[19:51] <NyanCat> One of their ARM servers though
[19:51] <tomreyn> and which version does lsb_release -ds report exactly?
[19:51] <NyanCat> well that's just it
[19:51] <NyanCat> lsb_release doesn't work
[19:51] <NyanCat> /etc/os-release $VERSION is set to 16.04 though
[19:52] <teward> lsb_release doesn't work how?
[19:52] <teward> doesn't say anything?  isn't installed?
[19:53] <teward> E:NotEnoughInfo
[19:53] <tomreyn> also: cat /etc/issue
[19:53] <NyanCat> Looks like just lsb-release isn't installed
[19:53] <NyanCat> stand by
[19:54] <tomreyn> if you could pastebin /etc/os-release that's be nice, too
[19:54] <NyanCat> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
[19:55] <tomreyn> so it's 16.04.0 apparently
[19:55] <NyanCat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1IWduBTP/
[19:55] <tomreyn> it is :-(
[19:55] <tomreyn> i suspect there may be no syslogging daemon installed, thus no /var/log/syslog
[20:32] <NyanCat> tomreyn: that's exactly it
[20:32] <NyanCat> rsyslog is not installed
[20:33] <NyanCat> It just seems, if OVH was going for a minimal image to use on these servers, that's probably the one thing I wouldn't have left out of the image, you know
[20:37] <NyanCat> so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[20:37] <NyanCat> issue fixed
[20:47] <tomreyn> NyanCat: you might want to install updates, though, since you must be lacking a lot.
[20:47] <NyanCat> that's the other screwy thing
[20:47] <NyanCat> there's nothing available
[20:47] <tomreyn> it'd be nice to see your apt-cache policy (after apt-get update)
[20:48] <NyanCat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/T4mM5IDb/
[20:51] <tomreyn> no security patches for you
[20:51] <tomreyn> nor any updates
[20:52] <NyanCat> well, it's not like i needed security, it's not paramount or anything, right???
[20:52] <NyanCat> ....*nervous laugh*
[20:52] <tomreyn> NyanCat: i'm sure your host can provide a qualified statement on this.
[20:53] <NyanCat> lol
[20:53] <NyanCat> OVH and qualified in the same sentence
[20:54] <NyanCat> Worth a shot, but sending a trouble ticket to OVH is like giving a kid $5 to go get bread and expecting them to come back with bread
[20:54] <tomreyn> in the past it's been common for hosters (i've seen several do so) running arm systems to fix the kernel image to the image they shipped, for whihc no sources were available.
[20:54] <tomreyn> that's because upgrading them is not neccessarily flawless, and if they break repairing cantake more time.
[20:55] <tomreyn> and if you decide to stick to a certain kernel image you may want to keep the user space the same, too, i guess. so maybe this is what you'Re seeing.
[20:56] <tomreyn> is it a good idea to do this, and connect this to the internet? definitely no.
[20:56] <NyanCat> I'm running "vanilla" according to them
[20:56] <NyanCat> When you image the server one of the advanced configuration options is to use the distribution or vanilla kernel
[20:56] <tomreyn> cat /proc/version should tell
[20:57] <NyanCat> ..... no way
[20:57] <NyanCat> I'll send you a message for this one, it does reveal IPs
[21:00] <tomreyn> NyanCat: the FQDN in the kernel string just reveals the hostname of the system this kernel was built on.
[21:04] <NyanCat> So it's purely coincidental that the FQDN happens to resolve to an IP in the same subnet as my server
[21:04] <NyanCat> I suppose, if that particular block was reserved for their ARM servers
[21:06] <tomreyn> i don't know how they do IPAM, there is #ovh, maybe someone knows there, but i doubt they'll disclose it.
[21:43] <mwhudson> teward: thanks for filing that bug
[23:48] <maddawg2> hmm so i installed ubuntu server 18.04LTS and it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that 3rd party repositories are disabled?
[23:48] <maddawg2> if so how do i enable them
[23:49] <sarnold> add files to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ as you decide you want them
[23:50] <mwhudson> maddawg2: you expected some third party repos to be enabled by default?
[23:51] <maddawg2> umm no i added them but for whatever reason apt-get is providing me errors now that were not existing in 16.04
[23:51] <maddawg2> i think maybe i found the reason
[23:51] <maddawg2> universe repository is disabled i think by default
[23:51] <mwhudson> ah that
[23:51] <maddawg2> it was unable to grab dependencies
[23:51] <mwhudson> that's fixed in the latest iso btw
[23:51] <maddawg2> ah
[23:52] <maddawg2> good to know.. i downloaded this one maybe 6 months ago but never got around to upgrading my server
[23:52] <mwhudson> http://releases.ubuntu.com/<IP_ADDRESS>/
[23:53] <maddawg2> hm the ISO i have is labeled: ubuntu-18.04.1-live-server-amd64.iso
[23:54] <maddawg2> that not the same as <IP_ADDRESS>?
[23:54] <tomreyn> file names will be the same
[23:54] <tomreyn> checksums will differ
[23:54] <tomreyn> actually i'm wrong, sorry
[23:55] <tomreyn> the updated ISOs seem to be named ubuntu-<IP_ADDRESS>-live-server-amd64.iso (extra ".0")
[23:57] <maddawg2> i wonder why it wasnt there to begin with tbh
[23:58] <maddawg2> seems like a big oversight... makes me wonder wehat else is borked :-P
[23:58] <sarnold> an apt update && apt upgrade will show you the rest :)
[23:59] <tomreyn> maddawg2: if you would like a similar result to what the old (debian) installers provided, then use the 'alternative' (non-'live') server installer


[01:12] <idnar> bzr: ERROR: No module named configobj
[01:12] <idnar> is there some way to make that more verbose?
[01:13] <idnar> ah, .bzr.log has a traceback
[01:13] <lifeless> -Derror
[01:13] <tct_> hi, bzr started crashing on me today when i tried to commit
[01:14] <idnar> I guess bzr-fastimport is out of date wrt bzrlib, or something
[01:14] <tct_> any ideas?  trackback is here: http://pastebin.com/aiUXNkWm
[01:14] <lifeless> idnar: I think we stopped bundling configobj
[01:15] <lifeless> idnar: fastimport should be importing the system configobj, if it wants to play with configobj directly.
[01:15] <idnar> lifeless: yeah, this code tries to do "import bzrlib.util.configobj.configobj as configobj"
[01:15] <lifeless> yeah, naughty.
[01:15] <lifeless> tct_: most folk are on leave with easter
[01:15] <lifeless> tct_: you might file a bug
[01:18] <tct_> thanks, will do
[01:19] <idnar> what... the heck is fast-import doing
[01:19] <idnar> I suppose I should just create the destination myself
[02:04] <lifeless> poolie: I <3 google - lmirrors pypi page is the first hit for 'lmirror' :>
[02:05] <poolie> that's pretty quick
[07:21] <vila> hi all !
[09:16] <GaryvdM> Hi all
[09:25] <reyman> hello guys
[09:30] <GaryvdM> Hello reyman
[09:35] <reyman> i have question about bzr, and i see anything about that in help  ...
[09:35] <reyman> i'm working with launchpad, and i want to work in a decentralized workflow
[09:36] <bialix> hi all
[09:37] <reyman> i checkout a trunk branch, but when i try to duplicate in a local branch with branch command, bzr says me " trunk is not a branch" :/
[09:37] <reyman> hi bialix
[09:40] <bialix> reyman: I don't understand your problem
[09:40] <bialix> maybe it helps if you pastebin shell session
[09:41] <bialix> or example of commands
[09:42] <reyman> i make first a "bzr checkout /myproject/trunk trunk" , a mirror if i understand correctly the help.
[09:43] <reyman> then i want to work in decentralized workflow, users commit on local branch before mergin with human gate keeper on launchpad
[09:43] <bialix> checkout is the checkout or bound branch. It's not exactly mirror
[09:43] <GaryvdM> hi bialix
[09:44] <bialix> you can convert your checkout to the simple branch with command `bzr unbind`
[09:44] <bialix> hi GaryvdM !
[09:44] <reyman> ok
[09:45] <reyman> about mirror branch the help says : "To create a mirror branch, set-up a shared repository (if you haven’t already) and then use the branch (or checkout) command to create the mirror"
[09:46] <reyman> but why create a checkout branch, if i need to unbind after to duplicate the checkout with branch command
[09:47] <reyman> it's impossible to make a "bzr branch trunk newTrunk" when trunk is a "checkout mirror"
[09:47] <bialix> reyman: why it's impossible? it's not true AFAIK
[09:47] <fullermd> No it's not...
[09:48] <bialix> hi fullermd !
[09:53] <AndrewLuecke> ello
[09:53] <bialix> olle
[09:53] <fullermd> lole?
[09:54] <bialix> leol?
[09:54] <AndrewLuecke> I hate to admit, I've been against Bazaar for a while, but now thinking of setting up a new revision control system.. Been comparing bzr and git.. Bazaar looks nice, but I'm just wondering if there are any updated benchmarks?
[09:54]  * AndrewLuecke has a 1-2GB repo
[09:55]  * bialix does not think bzr can beat git on such repo
[09:55] <AndrewLuecke> Everyone seems to be saying Git is much faster, (and they both seem to have good features, with bzr more polished).. But the other benefits I see for bazaar seem to put it in the running
[09:56] <AndrewLuecke> Yeah.. but I don't need it to beat all cases, but just not be much slower than SVN..
[09:56] <fullermd> I doubt it's arguable that git will be faster.  But will git be pleasant, and bzr unpleasant?
[09:56] <fullermd> Doubt you could say without trying.
[09:57] <reyman> bialix: so ok it's possible, but i try and i don't understand why i fail with this command :s
[09:57] <AndrewLuecke> well, been going through the features, addons, etc.
[09:57] <bialix> reyman: pastebin please
[09:57] <reyman> oki thx bialix
[09:57] <bialix> reyman: also I'm not native english speaker it's hard to understand you what's wrong
[09:58] <GaryvdM> bla - I don have my gpg key here.  going to pop in to work to get it. See you all later.
[09:58] <reyman> i'm not native english too :] with bad bad bad english
[09:59] <AndrewLuecke> from your opinions though, does Bazaar feel like it gets really slow?
[09:59] <bialix> !pastebin
[10:00] <bialix> reyman: ^
[10:00] <fullermd> Well, I've never used it with a 2 gig repo.  There are a lot of variables other than size that have huge effects on speed too.  It depends on shape of history, size and shape of tree, yada yada.
[10:01] <bialix> AndrewLuecke: if you want to know what is slow, you can try to run benchmarks on Windows
[10:02] <AndrewLuecke> yeah.. only prob is, I'm in Australia, so quota'ed internet.. Must save downloads.. Not sure I could run a good comparison (maybe a local one I guess, but not sure how useful that would be)
[10:02] <AndrewLuecke> but anyway, if it was woefully slow, I guess there wouldn't be as many people here, as there are now..
[10:03]  * AndrewLuecke put up with SVN for this long anyway
[10:04] <bialix> one of my past coworkers said one day: the result of meterings is highly dependent on the methods of measuring.
[10:04] <bialix> so mostly all benchmarks lies
[10:04] <bialix> only your PC and the operations you're interested is make sense
[10:04] <AndrewLuecke> yeah.. Normally I would stick the tree into both.. But hard to say
[10:05] <AndrewLuecke> fact is, we don't know yet fully what is needed, because we are forking an open source project
[10:07] <artagnon> What's the bzr equivalent of git reset --hard <sha1>?
[10:07] <AndrewLuecke> meh.. fedge it.. maybe I will give them a proper test (technically, the code can be broken into 3 trees anyway, so each would only be 600MB anyway I guess. Most of its mozillas code I guess
[10:08] <fullermd> artagnon: I believe that would be bzr pull --overwrite -r<abc>
[10:09] <reyman> pff i delete all my branch, checkout and restart cmd, and it's ok ... duplicate checkout in another local branch is ok.. sorry for inconvenience.
[10:09] <bialix> most likely bzr pull . --overwrite -r<abc>
[10:10] <fullermd> Well, yeah.  My brain typed the period; not its fault if my fingers didn't comply   :p
[10:10] <bialix> reyman: there were gremlins
[10:11] <artagnon> fullermd && bialix: Got it, thanks :)
[10:11] <bialix> artagnon: always happy to help
[10:11] <artagnon> Huh? I just got a huge bunch of conflicts!
[10:13] <fullermd> Did you have local changes?
[10:13] <artagnon> Yeah :|
[10:13] <fullermd> Mmm.  pull may try to merge them.  I can never remember if --overwrite affects that or not.
[10:13] <fullermd> Well, git reset --hard blows them away too AFAIK, so you can just revert to get back to a pristine rev <abc> WT.
[10:14]  * artagnon nods
[10:14] <artagnon> so bzr pull . --overwrite -r<r> isn't the equivalent
[10:14] <fullermd> Not quite.  pull ; revert (or revert ; pull) would be I guess.
[10:15] <fullermd> git reset blurs the lines.  In bzr, pull affects the branch, and revert the WT.
[10:16] <artagnon> ok, got it
[10:17] <artagnon> what do I do now though? I just want to hard reset to HEAD and try all this
[10:18] <fullermd> revert with no args will blat a pristine state of the current rev onto your working tree.  After the pull, that 'current rev' will be what you set for there, so just 'revert' should do it.
[10:20] <artagnon> Ok, nice. Now bzr status indicates a lot of unknown files though- how do I get rid of them?
[10:21] <fullermd> Mmm.  Probably a construction of bzr ls --someargs | xargs rm
[10:21] <jszakmeister> artagnon: I haven't tried it before, but 'bzr clean-tree' is probably what you're looking for.
[10:22] <fullermd> Probably  --unknown -R ?
[10:22] <lifeless> rm `bzr unknowns`
[10:22] <fullermd> Oh look, another ls bogusness I find in checking that...   how surprising.
[10:22] <bialix> `bzr clean-tree` FTW
[10:23] <reyman> in help there are a chapter "advanced layout", and the speak about the launchpad model, but when you use launchpad to host the code, you doesn't have choice with your layout for repository, no ?
[10:25] <jszakmeister> Is it sound to pass a URL to bzrlib.config.LocationConfig()?
[10:26] <artagnon> jszakmeister: works perfectly, Thanks :)
[10:26] <jszakmeister> artagnon: you're welcome!
[11:17] <defn> Hi all -- I have a branch, of a branch, of a "master" repository -- This branch is on a server.  How can I create a branch of my remote branch so I can work locally, and then push my commits into my the remote branch
[11:18] <defn> so right now I have branch-foo -> branch-bar -> master, and i want to have branch-local --|--> branch-foo -> branch-bar -> master
[11:18] <defn> does that make sense?
[11:20] <GaryvdM> defn bzr branch server/master
[11:20] <GaryvdM> defn: you will then have a master branch on your computer
[11:21] <GaryvdM> defn: I think that it is easier than you are expecting it to be :-)
[11:52] <defn> GaryvdM: :) thanks
[11:57] <spirov92> hi people, I'm having problems commiting to a launchpad branch, is launchpad down or something?
[11:58] <spirov92> ah, yes, it seems so
[12:18] <defn> GaryvdM: so would it look like:  bzr branch user@remotehost:dir/of/my/branch
[12:19] <GaryvdM> defn: maybe bzr branch sftp://user@remotehost/dir/of/my/branch
[12:20] <GaryvdM> defn: how is the branch shared?
[12:20] <defn> GaryvdM: im not sure im new to bzr
[12:20] <defn> i have a branch in another user's branch, which is pulled into the master
[12:22] <GaryvdM> defn: The branch can be shared over ftp, ssh(sftp), http, or anything that you can mount.
[12:22] <defn> i have a dir with a .bzr/ dir in it, and then i created a branch named v1.0 in the same directory which has its own .bzr directory inside
[12:23] <defn> that branch was created from the other user's branch
[12:23] <defn> does any of what im saying make sense?
[12:23] <defn> :)
[12:24] <GaryvdM> defn: no, rather don't move the .bzr dirs arround yourself.
[12:24] <defn> i havent touched the .bzr dirs
[12:24] <defn> im getting "Not a branch"
[12:25] <GaryvdM> defn: What are we trying to do again. I thought you were trying to get a branch from a server
[12:25] <defn> bzr branch<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:25] <defn> GaryvdM: im trying to do local development of that remote branch, like so i can commit locally when im not on the LAN
[12:25] <defn> and then when i get to work i can commit those changes
[12:26] <GaryvdM> And what happens when you do bzr branch<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[12:26] <defn> server does not understand bazaar network protocol 3, ... error: not a branch
[12:27] <GaryvdM> Who created the branch? maybe they did not?
[12:27] <lifeless> is bzr installed on the server?
[12:27] <defn> lifeless: yes but it's an older version i think
[12:27] <defn> 1.3.1
[12:28]  * GaryvdM -> lunch
[12:31] <defn> okay so here is the layout...
[12:32] <defn> another user on the same remote server created a branch for me in his home directory. on that server i created a branch in my home directory by doing: bzr branch /home/otheruser/dev/repo/branch branch-name
[12:35] <defn> okay i think i got it
[12:36] <defn> i guess my next question is, now that i've got a local copy of my branch, how do i commit locally only, so i dont need to have access to the remote server at all times?
[12:37] <luks> if you downloaded the brach using 'bzr branch', just use 'bzr commit'
[12:38] <defn> and then how, when im on the lan, do i push those commits to the remote branch?
[12:38] <defn> push?
[12:39] <luks> bzr push
[12:39] <luks> yes
[12:39] <defn> okay cool
[12:39] <defn> thanks everyone
[13:20] <reyman_aw> i don't understand why i have "sproject.dev/trunk" and not "/trunk" when i make bzr checkout "bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~reyman64/sproject/sproject.dev"
[13:22] <bialix> actually you should have only sproject.dev
[13:22] <bialix> the last part of URL used by default as the directory name
[13:23] <reyman_aw> yes i have only a branch sproject.dev in serie trunk
[13:24] <nomatter001> hi
[13:24] <reyman_aw> i want to make a human gate keeper flow, with a trunk only available for merge by me
[13:24] <nomatter001> i have problems with qlog because of that error: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/qbzr/+bug/544928
[13:25] <nomatter001> ubottu: exactly that problem, any whay to solve that?
[13:25] <reyman_aw> ^^
[13:25] <nomatter001> lol
[13:25] <bialix> reyman_aw: you may want to push your branch as lp:~reyman64/sproject/trunk
[13:25] <nomatter001> is there any way known to solve that problem
[13:25] <bialix> nomatter001: downgrade the PyQt
[13:25] <nomatter001> bialix: no other way?
[13:26] <nomatter001> manual patch in pyqt/qbzr?
[13:26] <bialix> GaryvdM working on this, he's away for lunch now
[13:26] <reyman_aw> bialix: yes, with no confirmation for me, and restriction review for other push'er
[13:27] <bialix> reyman_aw: lp:~reyman64/xxx is only writable by you
[13:27] <bialix> reyman_aw: check this page and read https://code.launchpad.net/~reyman64/sproject/sproject.dev
[13:27] <reyman_aw> ok thx bialix
[13:27] <nomatter001> bialix: does it work with pyqt-4.7.0-2?
[13:27] <bialix> reyman_aw: when I'm looking at your branch I see the following message: "You cannot upload to this branch. Only sebastien.rey  can upload to this branch. "
[13:28] <bialix> GaryvdM: are you here?
[13:28] <GaryvdM> nomatter001: Yes
[13:28] <bialix> Gary the Wizard came to the room
[13:28] <nomatter001> GaryvdM: ok thx
[13:29] <reyman_aw> and, so i have sprojet.dev in my repository after checkout, but why there are trunk folder into, don't understand ..if i want to create a fix , i need to branch the sprojet.dev/trunk or sprojet.dev only ?
[13:29] <bialix> reyman_aw: just advice: use english for the project description
[13:29] <bialix> or at least english + french
[13:29] <reyman_aw> ok bialix thx for advice, i translate later ;)
[13:30] <bialix> reyman_aw: are you using Bazaar Explorer?
[13:31] <reyman_aw> no
[13:31] <reyman_aw> command line for understand :)
[13:32] <reyman_aw> (try to understand ...)
[13:32] <bialix> wait a sec, I'll try to reproduce
[13:33] <bialix> bzr 2.1?
[13:40] <reyman_aw> yes bialix
[13:40] <reyman_aw> latest bzr on windows
[13:46] <bialix> okay
[13:46] <bialix> the same here
[13:46] <bialix> reyman_aw: you have trunk directory in your branch
[13:47] <reyman_aw> hum :/
[13:47] <bialix> the sproject.dev is the checkout root
[13:47] <bialix> do following:
[13:47] <bialix> cd trunk; bzr mv * ../
[13:47] <bialix> cd ..
[13:47] <bialix> bzr rm trunk
[13:47] <bialix> bzr commit
[13:48] <reyman_aw> ok so i make noob mistake in my manipulation when i create a trunk folder , arg
[13:48] <reyman_aw> thx a lot bialix, it's clear now :]
[13:48] <reyman_aw> sorry for this noob inconvenience
[13:49] <bialix> no problem
[13:49] <bialix> reyman_aw: remember: bzr info is your friend when you lost in the bzr forest
[13:49] <reyman_aw> ok thx for advice :)
[13:49] <bialix> `bzr info` tells you what bzr object you have and where its root
[13:50] <reyman_aw> i see yes
[13:51] <bialix> reyman_aw: you can try Bazaar Explorer
[13:51] <bialix> it provides some hints
[13:52] <reyman_aw> ok
[13:52] <bialix> back to your question about workflow
[13:52] <bialix> you'd better create shared repo for local work
[13:53] <bialix> bzr init-repo sproject
[13:53] <bialix> cd sproject
[13:53] <reyman_aw> i create a shared repo yes
[13:53] <bialix> bzr checkout lp:sproject trunk
[13:53] <bialix> the last command will create local checkout of your lp branch
[13:54] <bialix> then if you need to create new feature branch you do: bzr branch trunk xxx
[13:54] <reyman_aw> ok
[13:55] <bialix> to merge your branch back to trunk do: cd trunk; bzr merge ../xxx
[13:55] <reyman_aw> ok
[13:55] <bialix> after merge you need to check the result, resolve conflict if needed, and commit
[13:55] <reyman_aw> and if i want to propose merge on initial checkout trunk
[13:56] <reyman_aw> i make this with launchpad interface?
[13:56] <bialix> what it means?
[13:56] <bialix> if you want to create merge proposal?
[13:56] <bialix> or somebody else?
[13:57] <reyman_aw> only ~reyman64 have the access of initial trunk, but if other want to create feature and want to merge,
[13:57] <reyman_aw> yes bialix exactly
[13:57] <bialix> usually to create merge proposal one have to push his branch to lp
[13:57] <bialix> then do: bzr lp-open
[13:58] <bialix> the latter command will open the branch page, like https://code.launchpad.net/~reyman64/sproject/sproject.dev
[13:58] <bialix> there will be a button to create merge proposal
[13:59] <bialix> and ~reyman64 will receive the mail about merge proposal
[13:59] <reyman_aw> ok :]
[13:59] <reyman_aw> perfect !
[13:59] <bialix> then to merge the branch from lp you need to cd to shared repo sproject
[13:59] <bialix> then: bzr branch lp:other-branch
[14:00] <bialix> cd trunk
[14:00] <bialix> bzr merge ../other-branch
[14:00] <bialix> and commit as usual
[14:00] <reyman_aw> bialix: thx a lot for this tutorial, there are no real tutorial for decentralized workflow :/
[14:00] <reyman_aw> on launchpad
[14:00] <bialix> reaaly?
[14:00] <bialix> there is tutorials on Bazaar site
[14:01] <bialix> reyman_aw: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.1/en/tutorials/index.html
[14:01] <reyman_aw> yes but, not really for launchpad, so i don't understand the layout branch for launchpad
[14:01] <bialix> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.1/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html
[14:01] <bialix> ask your questions, give us feedback
[14:02] <bialix> send proposals to ML how the docs should be improved
[14:02] <bialix> there was nice tutorial on arstechnica
[14:03] <bialix> anybody has the link to that article?
[14:03] <reyman_aw> ok ! i search on arstechnica
[14:03] <reyman_aw> i have this review http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/02/an-introduction-to-collaborative-development-with-launchpad.ars
[14:04] <bialix> yes, that's it
[14:08] <bialix> reyman_aw: what do you mean by "the layout branch for launchpad"?
[14:14] <reyman_aw> bialix: in help there are a chapter " advanced layout"
[14:14] <bialix> link please
[14:15] <reyman_aw> ah the end :
[14:15] <reyman_aw> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/shared_repository_layouts.html
[14:15] <reyman_aw> -h+t
[14:15] <reyman_aw> layout " Simple developer naming (project/joe/foo, project/barry/bar) "
[14:15] <reyman_aw> this is not very clear for newbies
[14:15] <reyman_aw> like me :)
[14:16] <AndrewLuecke> Btw, has anyone tested both HTTPS and ssh, which was faster?
[14:16] <AndrewLuecke> Actually, nevermind, I'll just use SSH
[14:16] <bialix> bzr+ssh
[14:17] <bialix> reyman_aw: yep, there is the picture of tree of folders
[14:17] <bialix> reyman_aw: I think you don't need advanced things while you're newbie
[14:18] <bialix> reyman_aw: in short about lp: it uses the simple naming scheme: lp:~USER/PROJECT/BRANCH
[14:18] <reyman_aw> now i understand that the folder tree is a snapshoot of the launchpad ,no ?
[14:18] <bialix> I'd say that doc should be improved
[14:19]  * vila is stunned by bialix explanations, who needs doc after that ?
[14:20] <reyman_aw> bazaar have a great doc, and bialix help a lot ! Perhaps a tutorial on "how participate" on real launchpad project for dub :p
[14:20] <reyman_aw> make things more clear
[14:21] <vila> reyman_aw: patches welcome ! :)
[14:21] <reyman_aw> eheh
[14:21] <AndrewLuecke> I'm correct in believing bzr_access only allows r/rw/nothing right? Not anything special thats per directory (unless I create many users).. That is correct right?
[14:22] <vila> reyman_aw: I'm only half-joking here, at this instant, *you* have the clearer idea about what is missing...
[14:23] <AndrewLuecke> nevermind.. doesn't matter anyway :P
[14:23] <vila> AndrewLuecke: roughly yes, there was some discussion about going further but I can't remember it if was 1) with bzr-access, 2) with another script, 3) only discussed
[14:23] <reyman_aw> yes, i'm pionner in my entreprise, so i probably make a tutorial for the other later :]
[14:23] <vila> reyman_aw: keep notes !
[14:23] <reyman_aw> and why not for communities
[14:23] <AndrewLuecke> I think I heard somewhere vila, there is was ACL's, is that what you are refering to?
[14:24] <vila> AndrewLuecke: not ACL as the OS ones, but yes, something about allowing more fine-grained control at branch level
[14:24] <AndrewLuecke> ok
[14:25] <vila> AndrewLuecke: but nothing *below* the branch level in case that's what you're after
[14:25] <bialix> vila: the bug for 1st april: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/553955 (unfortunately today is 2nd)
[14:26] <AndrewLuecke> nah.. It was more of a theoretical.. But I guess it doesn't matter, as I'll only probably have 1 primary repository anyway I guess
[14:26] <reyman_aw> i have a problem bialix, i delete the false trunk in my sproject.dev, make commit, but i have BZR ERROR: cannot lock dir : transport operation no possible : http does not support mkdir() ( ?? )
[14:27] <vila> AndrewLuecke: I'm 80% sure someone has a working solution, I just can't remember the details (Alzheimer, etc)
[14:27] <bialix> reyman_aw: because you did checkout from http branch, which is read-only
[14:27] <reyman_aw> hmm
[14:27] <AndrewLuecke> ok vila.. It will probably pop up anyway
[14:28] <bialix> reyman_aw: do the following: bzr switch lp:xxx (where xxx is your lp branch)
[14:28] <reyman_aw> ok
[14:28]  * AndrewLuecke is still wrestling with debian anyway
[14:28] <vila> bialix: naah, you can't delete foo.txt, that's not allowed
[14:29] <bialix> AndrewLuecke, vila: there is ClueBzrServer project which I'm still planning to try out
[14:29] <reyman_aw> thx bialix it's ok :)
[14:29] <bialix> vila: seriously? %-)
[14:29] <AndrewLuecke> cool
[14:30] <vila> bialix: no :) 'bzr remove foo.txt' is so engrained in mind that I cannot encounter such a bug, checking
[14:30] <bialix> phew
[14:30]  * bialix used Windows Explorer, but don't say anybody
[14:33]  * AndrewLuecke debates switching his server to ubuntu again
[14:33] <vila> bialix: feel free to mark such bugs as confirmed and set an importance (I just did)
[14:34]  * vila needs to reboot bbiab
[14:48] <bialix> vila, come back
[14:50] <GaryvdM> Bug 544928 Fixed.
[14:51] <GaryvdM> bialix: Because it affects so many people, I'm going to release 0.18.5 now. That ok?
[14:52] <bialix> GaryvdM: sure, please also put in the release my fix for backslashes
[14:52] <GaryvdM> Yes
[14:52] <bialix> GaryvdM: congratulations on the bug fix!
[14:53] <bialix> I've planned to do 0.18.5 anyway tomorrow
[14:53] <bialix> GaryvdM: you can leave it for me
[14:53]  * GaryvdM grumbles about qt....
[14:53]  * bialix grumbles about all new versions of all software
[14:54] <GaryvdM> I'm developing a love hate relationship with qt.
[14:54] <bialix> (excluding qbzr of course)
[14:54] <bialix> or PyQT?
[14:59] <vila> jam ?
[15:26] <GaryvdM> vila: I'm loving BZR_PLUGINS_AT
[15:27] <vila> GaryvdM: I'm glad you like it, but I wonder how you avoided bug #552922 though....
[15:28] <vila> GaryvdM: fix available at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/552922-plugins-at/+merge/22697
[15:28] <bialix> wow, nice feature
[15:28] <GaryvdM> vila: I don't know
[15:44] <AndrewLuecke> woot.. I am such a fool.. Nobody cares, but its hard to explain the satisfaction you get when ssh actually authenticates properly
[15:44] <vila> AndrewLuecke: You're not alone :-)
[15:45] <vila> AndrewLuecke: about the satisfaction that is...
[15:45] <vila> AndrewLuecke: nah kidding, I'm so a fool too :-P
[15:45] <AndrewLuecke> serves me right for using 2 different texts to set up ssh (one told me that my home dir should be my repo, and I forgot I did that so clearly, authenticated keys wouldn't work)
[15:46] <AndrewLuecke> ooh.. Import time.. Time to see how fast I can import from songbird's svn to prgmr
[15:46] <vila> AndrewLuecke: 'ssh -v' is your friend too
[15:47] <AndrewLuecke> it was a server side issue.. I thought I did the authorised keys thing wrong..  I figured if I redid the same thing 5 times it would work..
[15:48] <vila> AndrewLuecke: good policy, served me right for the last 20 years, I use 2 instead of 5 though :-D
[15:48]  * vila kills more chicken
[15:49] <AndrewLuecke> Speaking of chicken.. If I'm not here tomorrow, its because the chicken in the fridge I purchased 2 or 3 days ago wasn't safe anymore
[15:50] <vila> tsk tsk, always sacrifice *live* chicken so you're sure they are fresh when you eat them...
[15:50]  * AndrewLuecke needs to find out how big the SVN tree is his importing, he suspects it wont fit on his VPS
[15:51] <AndrewLuecke> Nah.. no need
[15:51] <AndrewLuecke> Danger is my middle name...
[15:52] <AndrewLuecke> btw.. there is a broken link on: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.1/en/admin-guide/migration.html#subversion-conversion
[15:52] <AndrewLuecke> it points to http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/en/migration/foreign/bzr-on-svn-projects.html
[15:52] <AndrewLuecke> which isn't found..
[15:52] <vila> AndrewLuecke: please file a bug on lp
[15:52] <AndrewLuecke> I assume we don't have access to edit that
[15:53] <AndrewLuecke> How do I file a bug?
[15:53]  * AndrewLuecke is joking...
[15:53] <vila> AndrewLuecke: the admin-guide is part of the sources, so you can even provide a fix if you know the right url :)
[15:54] <vila> doc/en/admin-guide/migration.txt
[15:54] <AndrewLuecke> not sure yet.. Anyway.. priority #1 is to start tearing the SVN to pieces (because that might take a day or so)
[15:55] <vila> sure, I'm just trying to help you find something to do while waiting for the import :-D
[15:55] <AndrewLuecke> Haven't started the import yet.. I'm concerned about waking up tomorrow and finding my VPS full.. Trying to find out how big it is first..
[16:06] <NfNitLoop> Hrmm, I remember there being some caveats in the difference between lightweight/heavyweight checkouts that don't seem to be mentioned on http://wiki.bazaar-vcs.org/CheckoutTutorial
[16:07]  * AndrewLuecke wonders when google wave got proper extensions
[16:07] <NfNitLoop> and I vaguely remember things like "rebase" sortof ... break in a heavyweight checkout.
[16:07] <NfNitLoop> AndrewLuecke: "proper" extensions?   It's had extensions from the start.
[16:07] <AndrewLuecke> yeah.. but now, it actually has some in the list.. not only 2 or 3 (lots of em)
[16:12] <bialix> vila: can you help? It seems I found rather serious bug in bzrlib
[16:12] <vila> April 2th, really 2th !
[16:13] <vila> bialix: don't ask to ask :-)
[16:13] <bialix> oh, it seems I understand
[16:14] <bialix> bug about relative path to the master of light checkout
[16:14] <bialix> rats
[16:16] <bialix> it kills mew
[16:16] <bialix> me
[16:16] <vila> I think someone reported a bug about that recently or at least mentioned it on the ML or here
[16:18] <bialix> I can work with light checkout at all if it uses absolute path to another windows drive!!!
[16:24] <GaryvdM> bialix: Have you noticed a difference in qbzr startup time?
[16:24] <GaryvdM> bialix: Have you noticed a difference in qbzr startup time?
[16:25] <bialix> no, I havent
[16:25] <bialix> o I havent
[16:25] <vila> GaryvdM: it's twice as slow ?
[16:25] <vila> GaryvdM: it's twice as slow ?
[16:25] <bialix> no, I havent
[16:26] <GaryvdM> :-( Sorry about the dup, I push up+enter, the wrong window had focus :-)
[16:26] <bialix> we're joking
[16:26] <bialix> relax
[16:26] <GaryvdM> :-)
[16:26] <bialix> :-)
[16:26] <vila> :-)
[16:26] <GaryvdM> no difference though?
[16:27]  * bialix just hits the wall with relative paths
[16:27] <bialix> GaryvdM: in which branch/revno?
[16:27] <vila> bialix: I thought poolie may have landed a related patch recently but I can't find it....
[16:28] <bialix> vila: I'm not sure
[16:28] <vila> bialix: anyway if things have changed and broke your workflow, raise a bug
[16:28] <GaryvdM> bialix: in trunk since rev 1229 (2010/03/25)
[16:28] <bialix> vila: things are not changed I belivev, I've just found another use case when absolute paths are show stopper for me
[16:29] <bialix> GaryvdM: oh, I'm often working/dogfooding with 0.18
[16:29] <vila> bialix: haaa, then I may be I've got everything backwards and the discussion was about using relpaths instead
[16:30] <bialix> GaryvdM: but no, I don't think I've noticed any highly visible improvements
[16:30] <bialix> GaryvdM: do you have benchmarks?
[16:30] <bialix> vila: relative paths will helps
[16:32] <bialix> GaryvdM: when you'll finish with 0.18.5 can you look at my question in qbzr ML about qlog+colo?
[16:32] <bialix> please
[16:33] <GaryvdM> Sure, I have a half finished draft
[16:33] <GaryvdM> Such a change will need quite a bit of plumbing work in qlog...
[16:33] <ctrlsoft> bialix: did you see my reply?
[16:34] <bialix> jelmer, is it you?
[16:34] <bialix> ctrlsoft: no, I don't
[16:35] <bialix> reply for what?
[16:35] <ctrlsoft> bialix: your email about colo support in qlog
[16:35] <ctrlsoft> s/qlog/qbzr
[16:36] <bialix> ctrlsoft: no, is it recent?
[16:36] <ctrlsoft> bialix: a couple of days ago I think
[16:36] <bialix> I've sent my question just yesterday
[16:37] <bialix> I don't see any your mails, ctrlsoft
[16:37] <GaryvdM> ctrlsoft: can't see it either. Maybe got filtered by google groups spam filter.
[16:37] <ctrlsoft> hmm :-(
[16:38] <ctrlsoft> bialix: to summarize it; bzr 2.2 has support for colocated branches in its API
[16:39] <bialix> I have to admit that google groups became worse in last weeks
[16:39] <ctrlsoft> bialix: it would be nice if qbzr and bzr-colo supported that, that would also give you support for colocated branches in git repositories
[16:39] <bialix> ctrlsoft: that sounds great
[16:40] <bialix> can you CC your mail to bzr ML, please?
[16:41] <bialix> ctrlsoft: you have joined to qbzr ML with your samba mail
[16:41] <bialix> your mail have to arrive, I believe
[16:42] <GaryvdM> bialix: For inno setup, should I us the unicode, or non unicode version? Does it make a difference to the output?
[16:42] <GaryvdM> *use
[16:43] <bialix> GaryvdM: currently I'm using 5.3.3 which is pre-unicode IIRC
[16:43]  * bialix is just lazy to upgrade
[16:44] <bialix> in short: I dunno
[16:44] <GaryvdM> OK
[16:44] <bialix> vila: is it new thing that push to another drive letter don't create working tree?
[16:45] <vila> meh, I don't think so, are you sure you're not pushing into a --no-trees repo ?
[16:46]  * bialix checks
[16:46] <bialix> vila: info -v says: Create working tree for new branches inside the repository.
[16:47] <vila> bialix: no idea then, but I don't recall any change in this area either
[16:47] <bialix> okay, time for bug report
[16:49] <bialix> hmmm, can't reproduce
[16:50] <bialix> with simple branch I can't reproduce
[16:50] <vila> bialix: kill more chicken
[16:50] <bialix> what's that?
[16:51] <vila> bialix: black magic against the gremlins
[16:51] <bialix> oh, cool
[16:51]  * bialix notes
[16:52] <bialix> level-up!
[16:52] <vila> :-)
[16:53] <bialix> OIC, I'm pushing from colo workspace, which uses treeless branches and light co
[16:53]  * GaryvdM checks if he is in the right channel....
[16:54] <GaryvdM> bialix: oh - thats how bzr qlog sees the colo branches...
[16:55] <bialix> GaryvdM: bzr qlog colo: ?
[16:56] <GaryvdM> yeah
[16:56] <bialix> vila: yes, I can reproduce
[16:57] <GaryvdM> bialix: fyi: I get an error with the unicode version of inno. It went away when I installed the non unicode version...
[16:58] <bialix> GaryvdM: ok, thanks for the info
[16:58] <bialix> perhaps wine issue?
[16:58] <GaryvdM> maybe wine related...
[16:58] <GaryvdM> yes
[16:58] <GaryvdM> http://pastebin.org/131345
[17:00] <GaryvdM> btw - it rocks that I can now build the windows installer on ubuntu.
[17:00] <bialix> strange
[17:00] <bialix> indeed, rocks
[17:00] <bialix> wine is cool
[17:01] <vila> GaryvdM: you should 1) backup your HD, 2) wipe it clean 3) insall Ubuntu, 4) install a windows VM :)
[17:02] <vila> bialix: you too :-P
[17:02] <bialix> vila: :-P
[17:03] <bialix> and who will report about windows bugs then?
[17:03] <vila> bialix: you can still use windows in the VM :-)
[17:03] <GaryvdM> vila: The problem is that I have allsorts of windows apps that I'm not sure If I have instalers for.
[17:04] <vila> bialix: Some addictions just can't be cured
[17:04]  * bialix prouds to be addicted
[17:04] <vila> :)
[17:04] <GaryvdM> vila: It would be cool if I could boot my existing windows installation in a vm...
[17:05] <vila> GaryvdM: That will be a good occasion to cleanup :)
[17:05] <bialix> I'm using windows also because there is a lot of PC games for my daughter
[17:05] <bialix> (and sometimes for me)
[17:05] <vila> GaryvdM: I've never done it, but I think it can be done
[17:06] <GaryvdM> vila: I pritty much weened of it now. The last real thing that I need is to be able to run classic asp on linux.
[17:06] <reyman_aw> bye all, and thx for the advice !
[17:06] <GaryvdM> For maintenance.
[17:07]  * bialix waves
[17:07] <reyman_aw> exit
[17:08] <vila> GaryvdM: just checked, VirtualBox can use raw host hard disk from a guest, either an entire physical hard disks or selected partitions
[17:09] <GaryvdM> Oh cool - I'll try that...
[17:10] <vila> GaryvdM: but if I had to try that, I'd make sure to have backups, just in case something weird happen like windows suddenly thinking that it's running on a new hardware because the video card is not the same anymore or something like that
[17:10] <vila> GaryvdM: this is from chater 9.5 Advanced storage configuration in the vbox doc by the way
[17:16] <GaryvdM> qbzr 0.18.5 code name Silver terminalia
[17:16] <bialix> nice!
[17:26] <vila> bialix, GaryvdM : Can you run python -c 'import paramiko; print paramiko.__version__' and tell me which version is shipped with bzr ?
[17:27] <bialix> vila: no
[17:27] <vila> hehe
[17:27] <bialix> it's not easy with py2exe
[17:27] <bialix> wait a minute
[17:30] <bialix> vila: it seems 1.7.6 (Fanny)
[17:30] <vila> bialix: cool, thanks
[17:31]  * bialix was lazy to install depends plugin
[17:33] <GaryvdM> vila: 1.7.6 (Fanny) (on lucid)
[17:34]  * bialix eods
[17:34] <bialix> bye all
[17:34] <GaryvdM> bialix:
[17:34] <vila> GaryvdM: yeah, I know, babune reports a test failing on lucid and so far I've got 1.7.4 passing on karmic and 1.7.6 failing on lucid, but maybe it's pycrypto instead
[17:34] <vila> bignose: enjoy your week-end !!
[17:34] <vila> too late :-/
[17:34] <vila> and wrong nick :-(
[17:35] <vila> sorry bignose that was for bialix
[17:36] <vila> jam: ping, I seem to remember you mentioned something about paramiko/pycrypto on windows but I can't remember the details
[17:37] <jam> hi
[17:37] <vila> jam: something about either patching one package or the other or going with a workaround
[17:37] <vila> yeah ! jam is here ! Good morning !
[17:37] <jam> so paramiko uses a RandomPool from pycrypto IIRC
[17:37] <jam> and
[17:37] <vila> yeah, along these lines
[17:37] <jam> 1) With older pycrypto and MS < Windows
[17:37] <jam> it loops around time.clock() 100 times, with 15ms granularity (taking 1.5s to start)
[17:38] <jam> 2) With MS Vista at least (sorry time.time()) granularity goes to 1ms
[17:38] <jam> so it is only 100ms to start
[17:38] <jam> 3) We can patch pycrypto to use time.clock()
[17:38] <jam> 4) Newer pycrypto doesn't have the bug, but has completely deprecated RandomPool
[17:38] <vila> right, but during the discussion I think it was mentioned another point about some, yeah that
[17:38] <jam> so raises a warning that paramiko is using it
[17:39] <jam> 5) So we have to patch paramiko to work around *that*
[17:39] <jam> So at the moment, we stick with older pycrypto and patch it
[17:39] <jam> We could upgrade to newer pycrypto and patch paramiko somehow
[17:40] <vila> right, so across all our platforms, freebsd, gentoo and now lucid are failing because paramiko use RandomPool
[17:41] <vila> (not 100% sure for lucid, but gentoo and freebsd now says: PID check failed. RNG must be re-initialized after fork(). Hint: Try Random.atfork()
[17:42] <vila> with a traceback from crypto to paramiko
[17:43] <vila> jam: ok, so patching paramiko seems to be the only viable alternative there, I'm EODing, but I'll file a bug first thing when I came back
[17:44] <vila> bye all, have a nice week-end !
[17:46] <vila> jam: just one last thing, when/where do we *require* paramiko ?
[17:47] <jam> we have to have it for sftp support
[17:47] <AndrewLuecke> night
[17:47] <AndrewLuecke> and thanks
[17:47] <jam> we *can* use it as an ssh agent instead of openssh
[17:47] <jam> so bzr+ssh shouldn't require paramiko if you have openssh
[17:48] <vila> jam: right, thanks for confirming
[20:50] <psynaptic> hey guys
[20:52] <psynaptic> is there a way to display just *my* commits
[20:52] <psynaptic> I'm expected to provide a log of my work each day and it would be ideal if I could run something like bzr log -u<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:54] <lifeless> bzr log -m<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:58] <psynaptic> lifeless: doesn't seem to work on this server. is there a special requirement?
[20:59]  * psynaptic pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/private/gepmld86ygjflga6qro3a
[20:59] <psynaptic> this is what I tried
[21:00] <lifeless> uhm, it might not search author/committer; file a wishlist bug
[21:00] <psynaptic> ok, thank you
[21:21] <lifeless> vila: ping
[21:31] <bac> lifeless: can you tell me how to get a diff of the changes since a given revision MINUS the changes merged in from trunk?
[21:32] <lifeless> uhm
[21:32] <lifeless> make a temp branch
[21:32] <lifeless> of that rev
[21:32] <bac> yep
[21:32] <lifeless> merge trunk to it
[21:32] <lifeless> make a temp branch of tip
[21:32] <lifeless> merge trunk to that
[21:32] <lifeless> diff --old first-temp --new second-temp
[21:33] <bac> i'd tried *most* of that.  let me try.  thanks
[21:33] <lifeless> (this feeds into why looms and pipelines have things merged together)
[21:34] <magcius> I'm having problems when pulling from a repo.
[21:35] <magcius> bzr: ERROR: KnitPackRepository('local-repo') is not compatible with CHKInventoryRepository('lp-repo')
[21:35] <magcius> different rich-root support
[21:41] <ctrlsoft> magcius: the remote repository has more information than the local one, so the revisions can't be losslessly stored locally
[21:41] <ctrlsoft> magcius: you might want to upgrade to a newer repository format
[21:41] <ctrlsoft> ("bzr upgrade")
[21:41] <magcius> ctrlsoft: um
[21:41] <magcius> ctrlsoft: you should have a better error message, or do that automatically
[21:41] <magcius> ctrlsoft: because it was an older version before, so when I try to pull it should try to upgrade
[21:41] <ctrlsoft> magcius: I agree a better error message would indeed be a good idea, I think there's an open bug about that.
[21:42] <ctrlsoft> magcius: we don't want to upgrade automatically because it will make the repository unreadable by older versions of bazaar
[21:58] <vila> lifeless: pong
[21:59] <lifeless> hai
[21:59] <lifeless> bzrlib's HTTP transport
[21:59] <lifeless> is it threadsafe?
[22:00] <lifeless> and if I were to do a 'get' on it, does it buffer the full response still ?
[22:00] <lifeless> vila: ^
[22:00] <vila> hmm, I can't think of any part that shouldn't.
[22:00] <lifeless> vila: persistent connection cache ?
[22:00] <vila> pycurl buffers, urllib doesn't
[22:01] <vila> the connection  is shared between the transports that use it, there is no global cache
[22:01] <vila> lifeless: the only weak point is when the server and the client are in the same process but I don't think you care about that
[22:02] <vila> and even there it's more a python bug than unsafe thread code
[22:04] <vila> lifeless: when you do a get, the urllib transport try to make all reads goes to the socket without buffering (at least for the data, headers are a different story but again you should not care about that)
[22:05] <magcius> can someone explain this though? "We identify revisions using sequential numbers per branch, not per repository."
[22:05] <magcius> I thought branch was synonymous with repository?
[22:06] <mkanat> magcius: bzr help init-repo
[22:07] <luks> http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/PiecesInBrief
[22:08] <magcius> can bzr revision numbers theoretically get to <IP_ADDRESS>.<IP_ADDRESS>/123 and so on?
[22:08] <magcius> s:/:.:
[22:08] <luks> seriously, read http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs
[22:08] <luks> short answer, no, they can't
[22:09] <vila> magcius: no, they are either 123 or 123.456.789 i.e. one or three numbers
[22:09] <magcius> wait, what?
[22:09] <magcius> sorry, I'm a bzr noobie
[22:09] <vila> magcius: yeah, luks gave you a very good url for that
[22:09] <lifeless> vila: right, I don't care about that
[22:09] <lifeless> vila: is there control over cache-control yet ?
[22:10] <RumblePure> got an older revision, since that revision I have removed and created new files. How to restore the older revision?
[22:10] <vila> lifeless: no, we explicitly disable the caching unconditionaly
[22:11] <luks> RumblePure: bzr revert -r X path/to/file
[22:11] <luks> if I understand correctly that you want to undelete a file
[22:11] <lifeless> vila: yeah, I thought so
[22:12] <lifeless> vila: is it at least in a function I could override ?
[22:12] <vila> lifeless: see -urlib2_wrappers.AbstractHTTPHandler._default_headers
[22:12] <magcius> How are the pieces stored on the disk? Is it pickle or something?
[22:12] <luks> which pieces?
[22:12] <parthm> hello all. i was looking at bug #518609
[22:12] <lifeless> vila: bug 120697
[22:12] <magcius> luks: the files, the commit metadata
[22:13] <vila> lifeless: overriding AbstractHTTPHandler.http_request should be a good starting point
[22:13] <parthm> it seems that the exception occurs due to log.add('message', message) in format_rio.py but message is already unicode
[22:13] <parthm> http://pastebin.com/XP5VfTJt
[22:13] <lifeless> hth debbian things its fixed, I dunno
[22:13] <parthm> any ideas what the problem might be?
[22:14] <luks> magcius: there are various repository and branch formats in bzr
[22:14] <lifeless> parthm: it shouldn't be unicode
[22:14] <RumblePure> luks: simple enough. thx for your help. :)
[22:14] <vila> lifeless: yes I remember this bug
[22:14] <magcius> luks: is there any documentation on them, if I wanted to, say, implement a bzr web viewer in PHP or Perl?
[22:14] <luks> magcius: only the source code, I'm afraid
[22:14] <vila> lifeless: especially comment #9 :)
[22:15] <luks> but reading them directly is not going to be easy
[22:15] <parthm> lifeless: oh. so does bzr store message as regular 8-bit strings?
[22:15] <parthm> byte strings
[22:15] <magcius> luks: ouch
[22:16] <lifeless> magcius: bzr, like all VCS's, is a database.
[22:16] <luks> magcius: bzr is more a vcs framework than a simple application :)
[22:16] <lifeless> magcius: would you write a viewer for Postgresql or MySQL databases in PHP/Perl ?
[22:16] <magcius> lifeless: it's been done
[22:16] <luks> the interface (both user and API) was always more important than the file formats
[22:16] <lifeless> magcius: well, its that order of complexity.
[22:17] <lifeless> you need to implement the B+Tree index logic, groupcompress compression engine, pack file format, to have any hope
[22:17] <lifeless> and then on top of that you can start implementing user visible things.
[22:17] <lifeless> those three things are well documetned, in pydoc.
[22:18] <luks> and hope bzr will not change it's default format in the next version :)
[22:18] <magcius> lifeless: do you have a library written in something like C that I can get bindings to?
[22:18] <lifeless> luks: that doesn't really matter, a given website can stay on any format it wants indefinitely.
[22:18] <lifeless> magcius: you can call python from C; so our existing Python code is accessible from C.
[22:19] <magcius> lifeless: um
[22:19] <lifeless> and bzr is structured very cleanly as front-end and library.
[22:19] <luks> lifeless: I assume if somebody invests time in writing a reader for the 2a format, they want to actively use it
[22:19] <lifeless> there is also bzr-xmloutput, xml bindings for most commands.
[22:19] <luks> and bzr doesn't tend to support old formats indefinitely
[22:20] <parthm> magcius: loggerhead is a bzr web viewer written in python https://launchpad.net/loggerhead
[22:20] <lifeless> luks: we still support the very earliest alpha formats
[22:20] <magcius> parthm: yes, I've used loggerhead and seen it break thousands of time
[22:20] <luks> lifeless: usually only for conversion
[22:20] <lifeless> luks: its only the absolutely oldest ones (that couldn't even do networking or merge) that are readonly
[22:20] <luks> you wouldn't want to use them
[22:20] <lifeless> luks: !citation time, you're making FUD
[22:20] <vila> magcius: bug reports and patches welcome :)
[22:21] <luks> lifeless: :)
[22:21] <luks> a little too serious? :)
[22:21] <magcius> vila: I made a feature request a while ago: indentation lines or a left margin, it's awful reading Python code in Loggerhead because I can't tell where global scope is
[22:22] <vila> luks: he's right, the test suite guarantees that and fully pass for every commit on mainline...
[22:22] <magcius> vila: second, fix your URLs, I don't want to see %2F or whatever : is in my URLs. Third, I don't like how you have different URLs for reading files or trees. I should be able to change the URL to delete the filename and make it work.
[22:22] <luks> vila: yes, I know they are fully working
[22:22] <luks> vila: but they are inneficient
[22:22] <vila> magcius: I didn't write loggerhead
[22:22] <lifeless> luks: magcius have you filed a bug for that ?
[22:23] <lifeless> sorry
[22:23] <lifeless> magcius: have you filed a bug for that?
[22:23] <luks> vila: and they get more inneficient as new formats get developed
[22:23] <magcius> lifeless: I was told that both bugs already existed earlier
[22:23] <vila> luks: well I surely the newer formats are more efficient
[22:23] <lifeless> luks: they shouldn't be more inefficient than their intrinsic capabilities
[22:23] <parthm> lifeless: you are right `log.add('message', message.encode('ascii', 'ignore'))` fixes the issue. but is this the right place to convert the message to ascii? or do i need to find out why the message is becoming unicode in the first place?
[22:23] <lifeless> luks: we have removed unsafe optimisations that we used as a stopgap while preparing better formats
[22:23] <vila> magcius: I don't clearly see how reading the low-level bzr data will help you there ?
[22:23] <luks> vila: knits were getting alower along with packs development, the original packs were getting slower along with ...
[22:24] <lifeless> parthm: I have no idea what you're doing, so I can't really answer that.
[22:24] <lifeless> parthm: perhaps mail the list ?
[22:24] <luks> vila: anyway, I never wanted to argue about this :)
[22:24] <lifeless> parthm: unless vila has time to dig into this - I don't right now,s orry.
[22:25] <luks> I only said that this would be a reason for me to not implement bzr's internal file formats
[22:25] <vila> luks: I won't deny that but I won't say that the degradation were more important than the optimizations either
[22:25] <parthm> lifeless: i will do that. thanks for the pointer on message being ascii.
[22:25] <vila> luks: that's for sure :-)
[22:25] <parthm> lifeless: mailing list is probably good :)
[22:26] <lifeless> vila: so - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10490569/120697.patch
[22:27] <vila> lifeless: yup, still valid (still not usable as is but in essence that's what controls the caching)
[22:27]  * vila giggles at the # Begin bundle, long time not seen :)
[22:28] <lifeless> vila: I've suggested an API
[22:29] <vila> lifeless: I'll happily review any patch you can come with :-P
[22:37] <vila> lifeless: but roughly, caching packs/* and indices/* should cover at least 90% of the possible gains no ?
[22:53] <lifeless> vila: yes
[22:53] <lifeless> I don't plan to do that
[22:53] <lifeless> I want caching in another project, dealing with large data sets


[00:19] <KGB-2> gnome-builder signed tags 7ffb5b5 Jeremy Bicha upstream/43.5 * Upstream version 43.5 * https://deb.li/3H7tN
[00:19] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest abcbb01 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 32 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/V36V
[00:19] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest c2631d3 Aurimas Černius po/lt.po * Update Lithuanian translation * https://deb.li/3NCIg
[00:20] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest 27dba13 Christian Hergert src/libide/core/ide-action-muxer.c * libide/core: fix chainup of dispose * https://deb.li/RCoG
[00:20] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest a37811f Christian Hergert src/libide/gui/ide-marked-view.c * libide/gui: handle NULL text from markup content * https://deb.li/3z5rM
[00:20] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest 1ed1ca6 Christian Hergert src/libide/sourceview/ide-source-view.c * libide/sourceview: add missing keybindings for zoom * https://deb.li/33Ywy
[00:20] <KGB-2> gnome-builder upstream/latest bfab872 Christian Hergert src/libide/tweaks/ide-tweaks-combo-row.ui * libide/tweaks: setup tooltip-text for combo row * https://deb.li/i23e4
[02:11] <chromebittin> doing some more Swedish translation for the new installer, and accepting Arves translations for the new app store
[08:38] <seb128> goood morning desktopers!
[08:39] <ricotz> hello seb128
[08:41] <seb128> ricotz, hey, how are you today?
[08:42] <ricotz> seb128, quite well :), how are you?
[08:43] <seb128> I'm alright thanks!
[08:43] <ricotz> seb128, would you have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/2003335
[08:43] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Launchpad bug 2003335 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Jammy) "[SRU] libreoffice 7.3.7 updates for jammy" [Medium, In Progress]
[08:43] <ricotz> regarding the concern for a deliberate regression
[08:45] <ricotz> "changing a shortcut to Alt+Shift+E"
[08:48] <seb128> ricotz, it's one of those tricky situations. Ubuntu's line on SRUs has historically been that 'having something which never worked broken is less disruptive than changing a behaviour which is working and user rely on'
[08:49] <seb128> having a shortcut you are using not working anymore after updates is frustrating
[08:49] <seb128> I guess libreoffice doesn't allow to have 2 combo for the same actions? like we couldn't keep the old one working even if that's the new one which is hinted in the UI?
[08:53] <ricotz> seb128, I think there is only one active shortcut "allowed" to not confuse any internal mechanisms
[08:54] <ricotz> I guess dropping the patch it is then
[08:55] <seb128> yes, I would recommend that if you want to get the SRU team onboard
[08:55] <seb128> sorry...
[08:55] <ricotz> figuring out the syntax for a custom patch and testing things is way more fragile than going with an existing upstream solution
[08:56] <ricotz> or could there be some helpful UX team decision?
[09:03] <seb128> what custom patch? we are talking about removing a patch from the serie and keep using the current code no?
[09:03] <seb128> but no, we don't really have UX resources for such issues atm and it would probably not make a difference to the SRU reviewers anyway :-/
[09:04] <ricotz> seb128, ok, I was referring to Chris' suggestion to alter shortcuts depending on the locale
[09:05] <ricotz> I am going to drop it
[09:05] <seb128> ah, right, I don't feel a such patch would be the right way to go for the reasons you said
[09:05] <ricotz> thanks for your thoughts
[09:06] <seb128> np!
[09:08] <seb128> ricotz, other topic, Amin had been chatting to some thunderbird people about the translation issue when he was trying to figure it out. One of them said he figured how to get the source strings in the FTP server which should allow us to grab another tar for translations and build the langpacks from that which could simplify our script and make it less dependent of upstream implementation details
[09:08] <seb128> afaik they didn't publish those artifacts yet but I guess they will let us know when they do
[09:10] <seb128> also they said that my 'translations missing even with the fixed version' is basically because thunderbird didn't consider the langpack from the fixed packages as newer and such didn't load it
[09:10] <seb128> normal users updating from an older version shouldn't see the issue
[22:38] <KGB-0> libhandy-1 pipeline Jeremy Bicha 493601 * [17 minutes and 41 seconds] success (test-build-any: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: failed; test-build-all: success; piuparts: success; autopkgtest: success; reprotest: success; lintian: success; blhc: success; build: success; build i386: success; build source: success; extract-source: success)


[00:04] <TheMarius> ubuntu devs here? take a look at www.appimage.org .... something to integrade/cooperate with reg. snappy soon coming to ubuntu? and whoever came up with snappy packages deserves flowers from linux torvalds personally, its just what linux needs!
[00:12] <Bashing-om> WB EriC^^ :)
[00:13] <EriC^^> thanks Bashing-om :)
[00:15] <Bashing-om> I have allowed this to turn into a mad house .
[00:16] <EriC^^> hehe
[00:20] <EriC^^> what's the deal with sonic
[00:24] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: lightdm does not start .. 16.04. radeon driver . xorg and lshw show no problems .
[00:24] <EriC^^> oh
[00:27] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: sonic can not start any account from the login screen . yuk .
[02:58] <ibrumfield> GM lotus
[03:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:24] <Bashing-om> Oh lotuspsychje That time already ? Time flys as we have fun .
[03:25] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
[03:26] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: are you on xenial yourself?
[03:28] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not yet .. going to get that SSD and install on it all fresh .
[03:28] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[03:34] <Bashing-om> At least it will be when I can make it happen . Lawn mowers, weed eaters, auto coolant .... groceries ... I got to squeeze in the monies somewhere for a SSD !
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i always look around if i can re-sell something to make money
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> im pretty active on 2nd hand websites
[03:39] <Bashing-om> Well, I am of this mind ; If I did not want it, I would not have bought it .. I got nothing I want to sell .
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> ah,that sounds perfect minimalistic lifestyle :p
[03:42] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: sonic has a failure of lightdm to start .. messing about for several hours and I have no clue why .
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: oh? ubuntu version? upgrade or clean install?
[03:45] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Clean install, 16.04 was good for a few days .. xorg log shows no problem  loading radeon . Not even able to start the GUI from TTY1 . Poster has no odea of what might have happened . Out of patience now and going for the nuclear solution . But I sure would like to learn the why .
[03:46] <ibrumfield> Bashing-om: thank god ssd's are cheap as hell now, only reason i have one
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: thats weird it worked for a few days before, radeon driver should be pretty stable
[03:48] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: No doubt it is sometung in the UI . reconfigured the greeter and unity .. still no joy .
[03:48] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: tested the guest session?
[03:49] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: My 1st approach .. not even able to get the login screen to activate any account . yikes !
[03:49] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: could also be due to newer kernel recently
[03:49] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: make him load a previous one to test also
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
[03:50] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey .. not that ^^ is an idea !
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> recent one here
[03:51] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: yeah some brands are rather cheap, but think Bashing-om wants a samsung
[03:52] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: Gotcha, i picked up a crucial cheap. dont know about the samsung ones
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: alot of acpi issues we got solved in main, with updating to kernel 4.6 on xenial aswell
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yakkety moving to 4.6 soon also
[03:53] <Bashing-om> I am going to buy into their spiel of " better technology ' in Samsung's controller .
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> samsung is the best
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> i have a friend with server company with only samsung pro ssd's
[03:53] <ibrumfield> Bashing-om: definitly get what you pay for
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> and he said he hammered them 24/7 and never got 1 fail yet
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: the 850 pro gets 10 years warranty imagine
[03:54] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: Im just using it in a thinpad so i dont need anything hardcore
[03:54] <Bashing-om> I think ' best ' for the money .  SSDs like graphic's cards .. the sky is the limit on cost .
[03:56] <Bashing-om> ( I have run this ole box for several years on a $15 ATI card ) .
[03:59] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: wow, those really arent priced bad at newegg
[04:03] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: i got the 850 pro 128gig for like 90$
[04:04] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: i might look into those, i need to pick one up for my desktop.  I can accept that my boot time would be much greater .
[04:16] <ibrumfield> either of you know what the purpose of history-daemon is?
[04:18] <Bashing-om> ibrumfield: Rings no bells here .
[04:19] <ibrumfield> its constantly maxing out a core on my cpu.. Just started happening today out of nowhere.
[04:19] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: ubuntu version? upgrade or clean?
[04:20] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: 16.04 clean, been running for weeks with no problems until tonight.
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> hmmz
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: you too try a previous kernel, see if that sorts
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: sounds like a new !bug
[04:21] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: thanks man, i will
[04:24] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: any luck?
[04:26] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im about to hit a warm steamy shower :p
[04:26] <lotuspsychje> have a good night if i dont see you anymore
[04:27] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: nope.. still just maxing out one core. weird
[04:27] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I meet ya here ... bout me getting off place .
[04:27] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: ok i advise a new bug mate
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: explain the whole storry, add logs, saying tested several kernel, perhaps also try a 4.6 wily kernel
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: to make the devs work easier
[04:29] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: thanks i will going to sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/history-daemon for now to disable it
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> dax: wich channel do factoid request spam in?
[04:30] <dax> lotuspsychje: I don't understand the question.
[04:30] <lotuspsychje> dax: if we request a factoid trigger, wich channel does the ops get messaged?
[04:31] <lotuspsychje> dax: just wondering cause we had 2 requests recently, if you guys received correctly
[04:31] <dax> if you submit a factoid suggestion, it goes to #ubuntu-ops if you talked to ubottu, or #ubuntu-irc for the ubot clones
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> dax: can you re-call those requests to see if received well?
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> or only live?
[04:32] <dax> it just echoes to channel, there's no further functionality
[04:32] <dax> both channels are publicly logged
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> dax: so if nobody was online at that time of request, they could be lost?
[04:33] <dax> if nobody reads scrollback, which at least one person makes a habit of doing
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> dax: can i test one with you right now?
[04:33] <dax> *shrug* sure
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> incomming
[04:34] <dax> 04:34 < ubottu/#ubuntu-ops> In ubottu, lotuspsychje said: !no, !apache2 <reply> Apache is the most commonly used Web server on Linux systems. See how to install on 16.04 : https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/httpd.html
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> great
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> would be nice if there was a callback system
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> i dont wanna end up spamming ops channel right :p
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> dax: ducasse had a recent zfs request also
[04:39] <dax> apache one done, I still know zero about zfs
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> cool
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> dax: ill let ducasse message you then when he's awake?
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> or highlight?
[04:41] <dax> < dax>  lotuspsychje: zfs stuff is probably best off going to another op, i don't know anything about it or support it :c
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> dax: ok, ill tell him to request on more active moment then
[04:43] <dax> *nod*. I just pulled it from my logs and reminded -ops about it also
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> great tnx!
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: we still need a good !systemd replacement also, for users asking us for proper start/stop commands
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: all around systemd usage
[04:45] <dax> systemctl start foo, systemctl stop foo, systemctl enable foo, systemctl disable foo
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> yep
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> dax: this any good? http://www.howtogeek.com/216454/how-to-manage-systemd-services-on-a-linux-system/
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> with handy pics
[04:50] <dax> it suffers from that silly wordpress behavior of converting -- to –
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> yeah with ads also
[04:51] <dax> the digitalocean one is fine imho
[04:51] <dax> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-systemctl-to-manage-systemd-services-and-units
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> dax: i think oerheks missed something on that one
[04:52] <dax> 2016-05-16 16:14:55     < OerHeks>      nice, but i miss systemd-analyze and the bootchart " systemd-analyze plot > filename.svg  "
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you still got your url found
[04:52] <dax> meh, not gonna get the complete guide to everything systemd in one command
[04:52] <dax> for the people looking to do basic service management, the DO guide's plenty
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> ok ok
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> lets do the ocean one then
[04:53] <dax> !search systemd
[04:53]  * dax grins at the -ot one
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> lol
[04:53] <dax> !systemd-#ubuntu-offtopic
[04:53] <dax> anyways
[04:53] <dax> !systemd
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> this one is good for the converting from upstart
[04:54] <dax> !systemd
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> great!
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> thats gonna solve alot of trouble :p
[04:55] <dax> unfortunately, I learned systemd by reading every one of Lennart's "systemd for administrators" posts, which is quite a bit too much reading to suggest in #ubuntu :)
[04:55] <dax> anyways, be back in a bit
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> yeah, and i didnt came across a decent ubuntu wiki yet neither
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> kk tnx again
[04:58] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I have several links in respect to systemd . one in partitcular ? My memory is some kind of bad .. why I keep a data base .
[05:30] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: trigger got fixxed nvm mate :p
[05:32] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Ain't it wonderful when things get fixed :)
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:05] <Bashing-om> Eyes they be a crossin, time to call it ; Good nite .
[06:58] <ducasse> morning, all.
[10:49] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[10:57] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[10:58] <ducasse> afternoon :)
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj , ducasse
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> hi EriC^^
[11:00] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583114
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> they ask me to put in upstream bug?
[11:01] <lotuspsychje> what has gnome have to do in this?
[11:02] <TJ-> Gnome is the host project for NetworkManager
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> ah
[11:02] <TJ-> Your bug will be good company with some of mine :D
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so make the exact same bug to that gnome page?
[11:02] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: if you're being told its an upstream issue, yes.
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> kk
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: wich categorie would nm fall in?
[11:07] <TJ-> NetworkManager :)
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> and subcategory?
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> api, distro specific?
[11:08] <TJ-> Product: NetworkManager Component: Wi-Fo
[11:08] <TJ-> Wi-Fo
[11:08] <TJ-> Wi-Fi !!
[11:11] <Switches> Wi-Fo sounds better though.
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766786
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> there we go
[11:13] <EriC^^> TJ-: a real teaser norux's issue
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> lets hope my wifo gets fixxed soon
[11:14] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, if you have a problem with nm widget, just use "nmcli con up "
[11:14] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: what does that do?
[11:15] <BluesKaj> oops dunno if it works for wifi ,
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> well i dont have this every boot
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> weird situation
[11:16] <BluesKaj> i used it a while to connect via ethernet when the nm wasn't working/autoconnecting
[11:17] <BluesKaj> nmcli in the terminal was handy
[11:17] <lotuspsychje> this bug should even exist :p
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> should not
[11:29] <TJ-> BluesKaj: yes, nmcli does everything
[11:30] <TJ-> We've had to fall back to using it instead of nm-applet due to all the bugs that are yet to be fixed
[11:30] <TJ-> To get the list of wifi networks "nmcli device wifi list"
[11:31] <BluesKaj> yeah TJ- used to connect to vpn , with vpn server uuid , worked perfectly
[11:31] <BluesKaj> used it
[11:31] <TJ-> you can use the connection name with "... id "<name>"
[11:32] <TJ-> easier than typing uuids :)
[11:32] <BluesKaj> copy and paste works :-)
[11:32] <lotuspsychje> im gonna wait until this fixxes by itself tru update
[11:32] <TJ-> cheating :)
[11:32] <BluesKaj> just use nmcli com to list available connections
[11:33] <TJ-> I'm in a hotel right now, and use it to bring up the wifi and the vpn
[11:33] <BluesKaj> com=con
[11:33] <TJ-> the "nmcli device wifi list" is pretty colours ... even shows signal strength using ASCII blocks
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: dax requested your zfs trigger again to the other ops
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: requestes triggers dont get stored, is why
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> and we have 1 new: !apache2 for xenial and 1 edited !systemd
[11:38] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: ok, i'll try it again.
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !zfs
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !apache2
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !systemd
[11:38] <BluesKaj> TJ-, my laptop uses only the 2.4 ghz band , does the wifi have better reach at the lower or higher end of that band,? ch 10 barely cuts it ifrom my patio in the back
[11:39] <TJ-> higher frequency, less obstacle penetration
[11:39] <ducasse> maybe i should rather add a small note on the zfs wiki regarding the zfs on / thing...
[11:39] <TJ-> but in the same band you shouldn't be able to notice a difference
[11:41] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah could be usefull more
[11:42] <BluesKaj> TJ-, yeah that's what I thought..maybe I'll drop the router to ch4 , ch6 is crowded due to the router default
[11:43] <TJ-> BluesKaj: in 2.4GHz band only (in North Amaerica) channels 1, 6 and 11 are non-overlapping (assuming standard 20MHz wide channels)
[11:43] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: ok, i'll join the wiki team and suggest an edit.
[11:44] <TJ-> BluesKaj: if 802.11gn is in use using HT channels, they're 40MHz wide, so there's even more collision
[11:56] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: nice!
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
[12:03] <pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
[12:08] <EriC^^> hi pauljw
[12:08] <pauljw> hey EriC^^ , how are you today?
[12:08] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[12:08] <pauljw> so far so good :)
[12:09] <EriC^^> :)
[12:41] <pauljw> brb
[14:53] <dax> any WinUSB alternatives for 16.04? http://onetransistor.blogspot.com/2016/04/install-winusb-on-ubuntu-1604-lts.html isn't supportable :(
[14:53] <dax> (as far as I know the answer is "no")
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> i didnt test winusb on xenial yet
[14:53] <dax> tl;dr: new wxwidgets breaks it
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> too bad winusb was neat for win iso's
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> there is also multisystem, but not sure it supports windows iso's
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/multiboot-create-a-multiboot-usb-from-linux/
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> dax: its official site shows win icons
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> but only tested ubuntu iso's myself
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> i had 6 iso's on 1 usb with multisystem pretty neat
[15:00] <dax> that installation script is quite something
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> yeah its a bit dirty i know
[15:06] <dax> it's getting to the point where I just wanna say "if you want to make a Windows LiveUSB, go find a Windows computer" and make this ##windows' problem :|
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah i didnt use it for quiet a time winusb
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> but in some cases its handy of course
[17:27] <ducasse> ...and another spam source is born. *sigh*
[17:27] <nacc> just so i understand it, postfixadmin just provides an interface to administer postfix, right?
[17:28] <nacc> that's just the MTA part of it
[17:28] <daftykins> pass
[17:28] <daftykins> #ubuntu-server might respond
[17:28] <OerHeks> Now i understand he just wants a client on his server that fetches his gmail/whatevermail ?
[17:28] <ducasse> nacc: i think so, i always manage postfix with vi and postconf.
[17:28] <daftykins> the name is pretty suggestive though ;)
[17:29] <daftykins> !info postfixadmin
[17:29] <nacc> OerHeks: no he wants the whole thing, all running on his server
[17:29] <nacc> "whole thing" => full e-mail stack
[17:30] <OerHeks> oh, but we need more email-zombie servers .. no?
[17:30] <nacc> heh
[17:30] <ducasse> i wonder if it is really a good idea to tell these people about these tools.
[17:31] <ducasse> email admin'ing scares me :)
[17:31] <daftykins> not really, anything that makes learning to perform a server setup role properly is misleading users into thinking doing something is easier than it is
[17:31] <daftykins> er i failed big time on that sentence
[17:31] <daftykins> "hand holding programs are bad, mmk"
[17:32] <ducasse> "friends don't let friends use webmin"
[17:35] <daftykins> well you can't on debian distros anymore anyway, it's advised against due to not working with the package management setup
[17:36] <ducasse> good :)
[17:37] <daftykins> doesn't stop folks trying to run it :(
[17:39] <ducasse> you are probably right. at least it provides a learning experience when it breaks.
[17:39] <daftykins> only if they join the dots perhaps :)
[17:46] <DArqueBishop> ducasse: you wouldn't believe how many times I saw people coming into #squirrelmail or #roundcube with problems, and have to be told that a) their IMAP or SMTP server is throwing the error they're whining about, and b) despite was the vast majority of HOWTOs would tell you, setting up a properly configured mail server is arcane and difficult.
[17:46] <DArqueBishop> s/despite was/despite what/
[17:47] <ducasse> oh, i would :) admin'ing mail *properly* is probably one of the hardest services to run, imo.
[17:47] <daftykins> i tend to push people toward google apps or similar if they're thinking of going down the self-run route
[17:48] <DArqueBishop> Agreed wholeheartedly.
[17:48] <daftykins> life is too short to be dealing with that kind of stuff
[17:48] <DArqueBishop> I've been running my own personal mail environment for fifteen years or so, but it's not for the faint of heart (or those without a hint of masochism).
[17:50] <ducasse> ..or the totally paranoid. i kinda like control of my mail.
[17:50] <ducasse> (..or _for_ the...)
[17:51] <daftykins> how do you handle the moments of downtime required for rebooting etc?
[17:52] <ducasse> i have two :)
[17:53] <daftykins> heh
[17:54] <ducasse> it's not really a huge problem, it's soooo low traffic, and the dc the primary is in has good links to the outside world.
[17:55] <daftykins> ah ok
[17:56] <daftykins> i just sort of imagine the moments a machine is unavailable, someone sending an email and it being lost forever :)
[17:56] <DArqueBishop> daftykins: that's why you have a secondary MX somewhere. ;-)
[17:56] <ducasse> no, it goes to the secondary mx.
[17:56] <ducasse> ninja'd.
[17:56] <daftykins> that adds a bit more to your average first time user's plans
[17:57] <DArqueBishop> Even most MTAs will wait a specified amount of time (like a few days) before it gives up and marks a message as undeliverable.
[17:59] <ducasse> right, it tries the mx records in descending order and waits for a while before trying them again. and so on until the message times out.
[17:59] <ducasse> aiui.
[18:14] <ducasse> does anyone think there would be an interest in a yubikey page on the ubuntu wiki?
[18:16] <daftykins> can't hurt, there really nothing as-is?
[18:18] <ducasse> not on the wiki, the info that is relevant to ubuntu is scattered in a zillion blogs etc.
[18:18] <OerHeks> ducasse, yes, if it isn't there already
[18:18] <OerHeks> howto use, howto use with ubuntu=one atc
[18:19]  * OerHeks puts on reading glasses .. wait
[18:27] <ducasse> i've been setting mine up for ssh, gpg etc, and needed to piece together info from several places. just might be nice with one page that covers the basics, i thought.
[18:31] <OerHeks> ducasse, you know yubico team? https://launchpad.net/~yubico/+archive/ubuntu/stable  and https://developers.yubico.com/yubico-pam/Manuals/pam_yubico.8.html
[18:32] <OerHeks> ducasse, but there are many types of auth, Blue FIDO U2F and others
[18:34] <ducasse> yes, the yubikey supports a lot of different standards etc, it was a bit confusing at first figuring out what to use. still, some things like setting it up for ssh and gpg could be nice to have on the wiki.
[18:35] <OerHeks> linux action show jul 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3D1gqXPW98
[18:36] <OerHeks> and this url i have stored in my bookmarks http://seabre.github.io/blog/2015/10/17/local-two-factor-authentication-with-u2f-on-ubuntu-14-dot-04/ end.
[18:40] <ducasse> u2f is nice, hope firefox gets built-in support soon.
[18:41] <OerHeks> i would like to see a list on that wiki what service uses what auth version
[18:42] <OerHeks> oh, you did find https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSO/FAQs/2FA#Yubikey ?
[18:45] <ducasse> i hadn't noticed that you need to join a team to enable it, i'll do that tomorrow :)
[18:46] <ducasse> yubico has a list of various services and the protocols they support. most seem to use u2f now.
[18:47] <ducasse> a few, like lastpass, use the yubico otp, and there are otp or challenge-response plugins for some other password managers, like keepass.