[00:11] <Riddell> nixternal: still planning on doing the upgrade page/pics?
[00:21] <daskreech> Crap we need a human changelog don't we?
[00:22] <daskreech> Riddell: Do we have any stats of how many people still pull Kde3 packages from hardy for example ?
[00:25] <Riddell> nope
[00:27] <daskreech> Hmm wondering if there should be a Changelog for the people who were sitting on Hardy
[00:30] <Riddell> we don't support upgrades from hardy
[00:30] <daskreech> Not upgrades
[00:31] <daskreech> just what you can expect as an upgrade from KDE3
[00:31] <daskreech>  mostly what's new and what you can view as a regression
[00:31] <daskreech> Which should be a tiny list
[00:36] <Riddell> since we don't support it we're not going to have any documentation on it
[00:42] <maco> Dear people who have been resisting KDE4 and are now going to have to use it because it's all that's left supported:  Here's why it rocks and you should've switched by now...
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> It's been two years now. You'd think people would either live with KDE4 or use the KDE3 remix
[00:51] <maco> JontheEchidna: how long's the kde3 remix sticking around? theres no devel happening on the old kde3 stuff anymore is there?
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> maco: The guy that's been doing it plans to keep it around. He's also been doing some work on it, actually
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> It's a bit amazing, actually. He really cares and it putting his keyboard where his mouth is
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> Last commit to his KDE3 fork was two days ago: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/trinity/
[00:56] <jjesse> is there that big of interest?
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> the remix has its fair share of users, judging by the release feedback wiki page
[01:13] <jjesse> quiet night in the channe l(
[01:14] <Riddell> everyone is getting an early night to be able to test the new images tomorrow :)
[01:19] <jjesse> yay
[01:19] <jjesse> so should i stop downloading the current daily-live?
[01:19] <Riddell> jjesse: no, you can rsync it when the new ones arrive
[01:19] <jjesse> ok
[01:19] <Riddell> which you'll get announcement of if you subscribe to ISO testing
[01:20] <jjesse> i think i do
[01:20] <jjesse> Riddell: isn't it past your bedtime ;)
[01:23] <Riddell> getting that way
[01:24] <maco> Riddell: oh you ARE awake!
[01:24] <jjesse> is there a native ubuntu one client yet?
[01:25] <maco> haha apparently jjesse and i are thinking the same thing
[01:25] <jjesse> i think that's a bit scary :)
[01:26] <claydoh> if we want users to use the kubuntu-feedback widget , shouldn't it be installed by default ;)
[01:27] <jjesse> didn't know there was such a thng
[01:27] <claydoh> jjesse: just apache logger's unmaintained paalet
[01:27] <claydoh> applet
[01:27]  * ScottK thought it was nixternal's.
[01:28] <ScottK> claydoh: Doing release announcement for the beta?
[01:28] <claydoh> ScottK: working on cleaning it up, etc
[01:28] <jjesse> claydoh: were you refering to the feedback widget or ubuntuone?
[01:28] <ScottK> Excellent.
[01:29] <jjesse> ScottK: had no problems upgrading my netbook from karmic to lucid
[01:29] <claydoh> Riddell suggested using the feedback widget in place of the feedback page
[01:29] <ScottK> Excellent.
[01:29] <Riddell> claydoh: it is
[01:29] <claydoh> jjesse: u1
[01:30] <claydoh> Riddell: I had to install it on my lucid  box just now
[01:30] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: How's this: qt-language-selector turns into a KCM module for installing/removing language packs/support, and then I add a KAuth'd button to the existing locale KCM that copies the KDE lang/locale settings to /etc/default/locale via a patch
[01:30] <claydoh> Riddell:  ScottK JontheEchidna any key point need mentioning in the release notes? bugs?
[01:30] <Riddell> claydoh: apt-cache rdepends plasma-widget-kubuntu-feedback   says it's in
[01:31] <Riddell> claydoh: take your pick from http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
[01:32] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: only if the user wanted to set the system default of course
[01:32] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: along those lines it would be nice if KDM let you select language, but that's a whole nother project
[01:32] <claydoh> Riddell: cool
[01:33] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I could even get a bit fancy with the install/remove KCM and put in a nice model/view for the languages, and maybe even put in a filter bar.
[01:33] <JontheEchidna> though I've never done model/view in python... can't imagine it being too hard, though
[01:34] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'm sure rgreening can tell you how it's done.
[01:35] <JontheEchidna> ooh, yeah. usb-creator would be a good place to look for example code
[01:36] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'm not sure there is a model for languages
[01:36] <JontheEchidna> :(
[01:37] <Riddell> but you can have a filter line without a model I'm pretty sure
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> I wonder what fancy stuff can be done with QListView
[01:39] <daskreech> maco: Yes that' would be the gist of the letter along with a list of things that KDE 3 can do that KDE4 cannot
[01:39] <claydoh> so where does the feedback from the widget go?
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> nixternal's secret server running windows7
 JontheEchidna: along those lines it would be nice if KDM let you select language <-- it doesn't? even gdm does that! ;-)
[01:40] <claydoh> ahhh I shoulda knowed :)
[01:40] <jjesse> no that's my not so secret server thats running windows :)
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> maco: we use half-working voodoo to detect the system language, iirc
[01:40] <daskreech> !nixternal
[01:44] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Where did your revised language selector debdiff go?
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/4ARUygQx
[01:45] <ScottK> OK.  Let's see if I can manage that before I pass out.
[01:45] <JontheEchidna> without python-glade2 it won't start, and it'll raise an error when trying to set system defaults if gksu isn't installed, so I added those as depends
[01:45] <JontheEchidna> "it" being the GTK frontend
[01:45] <ScottK> OK.
[01:47] <ScottK> ... and if I can type my ssh key pass phrase (took 4 tries).
[02:09] <jjesse> anyone try to get ubuntuonew working on luci?
[02:11] <daskreech> ubuntuonew?
[02:11] <jjesse> ubuntu one
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Thanks. Nighty-night
[02:12]  * JontheEchidna imagines ScottK passed out on his keyboard, right after hitting enter on dput
[02:13] <maco> its only just after 10pm there
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> Guess that doesn't stop ol' Scottie from having a busy day
[02:16] <jjesse> hrmm i think i've installed everything that has the word ubuntuone in it but still no go
[02:18] <daskreech> And we have people on KDE3 in the support chan
[02:18] <nixternal> ScottK: feedback widget is mine :)
[02:18] <nixternal> it is now in c++
[02:18] <Riddell> nixternal: it seems to like being oversized for some reason
[02:19] <nixternal> hey, what is the proper way for doing python and cmake? ie. I am installing foo.py to /usr/share/kde4/apps/foo/foo.py but I want it in /usr/bin/foo as well...I have cmake doing the link for me, however when I uninstall via cmake, it doesn't unlink
[02:19] <nixternal> Riddell: how oversized?
[02:19] <nixternal> there is nothing to that applet
[02:19] <Riddell> nixternal: widget size.  it's full screen size by default for me
[02:19] <nixternal> hrmm
[02:20] <nixternal> should be just under 600x600
[02:20] <nixternal> in order to remove the scrollbars needed
[02:21] <nixternal> hrmm, it is full screen here as well Riddell
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: revised SoC proposal draft: http://pastebin.com/GZZ80W6P
[02:23] <nixternal> hrmm, seems there is no set size for some reason...easy fix
[02:25] <nixternal> resize( 550, 550 );  <- Riddell I have no idea why this isn't working...something must have changed in KDE SC 4.4 that causes this
[02:26] <Riddell> nixternal: well more importantly, are you planning on doing upgrade testing and documenting tonight?
[02:27] <nixternal> documenting I hadn't planned on doing...I am tired of docs right about now...just rewrote the entire kubuntu-docs package....as for testing, i need to add my feedback to the iso pages...my upgrades worked on qemu
[02:28] <Riddell> nixternal: it's the screenshots we need really, documenting I can do, it's just copying the karmic bits and s/karmic/lucid/
[02:28] <nixternal> oh that stuff....yeah, I guess I can work on that
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> Did anybody else not get a panel with today's livecd?
[02:29] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: possibly "Run as normal user" need to come before port to KCM when implementing?
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I think in reality they'll both happen togetherish
[02:30] <JontheEchidna> eh, yeah. Before by a little bit :)
[02:42] <claydoh> hmm... as plasma is scriptable, wouldn't it be possible to add a button in the desktop folder to open the feedback widget? if desired that is
[02:43]  * claydoh is feverish, quite literally :(
[02:43] <Riddell> that would need code in the folder plasmoid
[02:44] <Riddell> I'd quite like the feedback widget to be a one line wee thing on the desktop "click here to give feedback" and it expands
[02:44] <Riddell> on betas anyway, not on final
[02:44] <Riddell> but time for bed
[02:45] <nixternal> wish you would have said that many moons ago :D
[02:46] <Riddell> well I only just thought of it :)
[02:46] <Riddell> it's good like it is for lucid
[02:47] <nixternal> hehe
[02:55] <nixternal> Riddell: doing upgrade docs now, for both 9.10 -> 10.04 and 8.04 -> 10.04
[03:07] <nixternal> http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/9.10-upgrade/hardy-upgrade3.png  <- I kind of miss that look and feel and awesomeness
[03:08] <ScottK> I miss the not crashiness.
[03:08] <ScottK> 4.3/4.4 aren't bad, but they aren't nearly as stable as 3.5 was.
[03:09] <nixternal> or fast
[03:09] <nixternal> i just installed 8.04 on my test machine for this update stuff
[03:09] <nixternal> wow, it is blazing fast
[03:09] <nixternal> and it is side-by-side with a fresh lucid install, as of 3 hours ago lucid install
[03:10] <verbalshadow> kpackagekit still sucks compared to adept and synaptic :(
[03:11] <nixternal> oh wow, i just found some packages, the documentation, and some other things I worked on in Kubuntu 5.10, the Breezy Badger
[03:11] <nixternal> almost 5 years I have been around here
[03:11] <nixternal> I have been with Kubuntu longer than any job I have ever had :)
[03:12] <verbalshadow> :)
[03:14] <claydoh> wow I that means I have been using Kubuntu longer than any other distros combined
[03:14] <claydoh> or other os's even
[03:16] <claydoh> that counts win95/98/me, Beos, Lycoris, and bunches of others
[03:16] <verbalshadow> i remember the badger comics
[03:16] <nixternal> not here, been using debian since 1994/1995, slackware since 1993/1994, suse/opensuse since around that 94 time frame
[03:16] <nixternal> i used gnome longer than i did windows :p
[03:17] <claydoh> I have only used linux since 2000, got my first computer in 1998
[03:17] <claydoh> later starter
[03:17] <verbalshadow> i didn't find linux until 2004
[03:18] <verbalshadow> but i loved my C64
[03:21] <claydoh> ok release notespage seems done, minus some images for  Touchpad Configuration,System Notification Polish, and gnome app systray integration
[03:21] <claydoh> i have to hit the sack, this fever is dragging me down :(
[03:22] <claydoh> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/LucidLynx/Beta1/Kubuntu
[03:26] <nixternal> heh, JontheEchidna the kde netbook reference, I wonder what happens to that when suse is sold off as elliot sheds novell's assetts if the bid goes through? :D
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> :D
[03:38] <daskreech> nixternal: if you need a page of docs done you can throw at me
[03:38] <daskreech> I miss adept a lot :(
[03:44] <nixternal> oh damn, i forgot 8.04 wasn't lts, so i don't need to document that upgrade
[03:49] <ScottK> Sigh.  I guess Identi.ca is gone to the dark side.  They started publishing my geo location on my 'dents without asking me.  Fortunately I noticed, deleted the 'dent and modified my settings before reposting.
[03:52] <nixternal> ScottK: it isn't identi.ca, it is your browser, and it should have asked you
[03:52] <nixternal> you are either using firefox or chromium
[03:52] <ScottK> nixternal: Nope. Konqueror.
[03:52] <nixternal> orly
[03:52] <ScottK> My browser changed my account settings on identi.ca to say "post with my location"?
[03:54] <nixternal> that's how it was originally...when i post to identi.ca, it doesn't show my location
[03:54] <nixternal> here, let me try through the library computer
[03:55] <nixternal> mine is showing it
[03:56] <nixternal> mine isn't showing it I meant
[03:57] <ScottK> Dunno.  I've posted from this computer before, but not in a while and using Konqueror.
[03:57] <ScottK> Never had a post with my location before.
[03:58] <nixternal> hrmm
[03:58] <nixternal> don't know what it is, konqi didn't do it either
[04:00] <daskreech> possibly it's Identi.ca then?
[04:11] <nixternal> daskreech: nah, i think stuff like this starts happening when you get up there in age...next he will be sticking his keys in the refrigerator
[04:11] <daskreech> Or the toaster
[04:30] <maco> my mum puts her keys in the fridge on purpose
[04:30] <maco> that way she can't leave the house and forget the $FOOD she's supposed to take with her to $EVENT
[05:26] <shadeslayer> btw xorg.conf is depreceated right?
[05:29] <shadeslayer> !xorg
[05:39] <Fersure> yes; hal is the prefered method.
[05:40] <daskreech> I think they are removing the file in the next release of X
[05:41] <shadeslayer> ah ok but how do i use hal and the nvidia restricted driver?
[05:47] <Fersure> shadeslayer: well, if you can't find out how, xorg.conf will work
[05:47] <shadeslayer> Fersure: and what about plymouth? will it work with the restricted driver and dkms?
[05:47] <Fersure> not sure, I don't see why not though.
[05:49] <shadeslayer> Fersure: hmmm well plymouth starts in text mode right now...
[05:49] <shadeslayer> and ubuntu-bug cant work in proxy apparently
[06:03] <Fersure> strange
[06:07] <shadeslayer> yeah
[06:11] <shadeslayer> bug 538292
[09:27] <ghostcube> o/
[09:27] <a|wen> after installing using the alternate iso up for testing i've noticed to things; the splash screen writes "ubuntu 10.04" and there is no default panels on the desktop ... know issues / anyone else seen them?
[11:11] <Riddell> a|wen: which splash screen
[11:11] <Riddell> a|wen: I think you reported the no default panels issue on ISO tracket yesterday?  did you try with a new user?
[11:11] <a|wen> Riddell: the plymouth one i suppose (just the text "Ubuntu 10.04" and four dots changing colors)
[11:12]  * a|wen boots the VM and creates a new user
[11:16] <a|wen> Riddell: same on a new user; no panel visible
[11:16] <Riddell> ubuntu on boot splash is known
[11:17] <Riddell> bug 540810 ?
[11:23] <a|wen> that would be it; can see the bug was just created, so that was why i couldn't find any
[11:24] <Riddell> a|wen: could you rm /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/apps/plasma-desktop/init/01-kubuntu-default-setup.js and try again with a new user?
[11:28] <a|wen> hello panel :)
[11:28] <a|wen> Riddell: that made the panel appear, yes
[11:29] <Riddell> ho hum, more bugs in upstream's desktop scripting that they don't even use themselves
[11:31] <a|wen> that is probably the reason for the many bugs then
[11:31] <Riddell> many bugs?
[11:32] <a|wen> i guessed that your "more bugs" refered to this not being the first one found
[11:34] <Riddell> more like missing features
[11:35] <a|wen> hopefully it'll have enough to do close to what we want
[13:11] <shadeslayer> hi does the nouveau driver support stuff like transperency and desktop cube animation?
[13:11] <Riddell> I've no idea
[13:11] <jussi01> I do not beleive so
[13:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: hmm...
[13:12] <shadeslayer> too bad then.. ill have to live with the annoying ascii plymouth screen
[13:12] <shadeslayer> have this : https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/526892
[13:12] <Riddell> that seems unrelated to X compositing
[13:13] <shadeslayer> ubottu: oh,well i have to use nvidia drivers to get composting since nouveau does not support transperency like you said
[13:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ^^
[13:14] <jussi01> shadeslayer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Drivers
[13:14] <JontheEchidna> actually, nouveau is the only way you're going to get the nice boot experience with lucid
[13:14] <JontheEchidna> nvidia doesn't support KMS< but nouveau does
[13:15] <JontheEchidna> fwiw, I also got the text plymouth in virtualbox
[13:15] <JontheEchidna> with intel
[13:15] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: um im using the latest 195 driver with kms support
[13:15] <JontheEchidna> really? They support kms now?
[13:16] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: it does say that when installing the drivers
[13:16] <JontheEchidna> hmm, neat.
[13:16] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/ppa
[13:16] <apachelogger> launchpad needs comment moderation
[13:16] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: see the dkms package
[13:16] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: for milestoned bugs please also nominate for lucid (needed for release managers bug view) and tag as kubuntu (needed for the tinyurl in /topic)
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: Ah, dkms isn't kms :)
[13:17] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: really?
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, dkms is dynamic kernel module system
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> KMS is Kernel Mode Switching
[13:17] <shadeslayer> oh..
[13:17] <dantti> JontheEchidna: hey the kcm can modify some parameters of the printers :) please take a look later and tell me if you have some ideas for that dialog :D thanks
[13:17] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: btw is 3d support expected in lucid final?
[13:17] <shadeslayer> for nouveau
[13:18] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: dunno. I think that at best it may only be a little support, and then your mileage may vary
[13:18] <JontheEchidna> dantti: oo, neat
[13:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 342671 ... even though it is all a load of crap and flame and completely off topic
[13:18] <apachelogger> they do have a point right there
[13:18] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: imo we should switch back to adept
[13:19] <apachelogger> then we probably dont get LTS
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[13:19] <apachelogger> then again
[13:19] <apachelogger> I do not care about LTS
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> It'd require:
[13:19] <JontheEchidna> -Adding emergency update notification support to k-n-h
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> -Breaking all sorts of UI freezes putting adept in
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> and yeah :(
[13:20] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: talking about knh, we should make the event classes use knotifieritem or what it is called
[13:20] <apachelogger> make notifications non-persistent
[13:20] <apachelogger> but use identical icons in tray icon and notification
[13:21] <apachelogger> this way it looks like the notification minimzied to the tray icon ;)
[13:21] <JontheEchidna> I guess I can live with that
[13:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: wanna do the honors of proposing the letz-try-to-unbreak-the-stuff-noone-cared-about?
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: you lost me. Perhaps I'm still half asleep
[13:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you want to propose the switch to adept :P
[13:22] <apachelogger> cause I should be doing the nasty asm programming
[13:22] <shadeslayer> btw how do i renable the nouveau package?
[13:23] <apachelogger> and actually lecture on cpp is startin in 1.5 hours too -.-
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> right now I have to figure out which one of these blobs in known_hosts is kde svn :/
[13:24] <apachelogger> oh, good fun with that :P
[13:24]  * apachelogger hates the known hosts list
[13:24] <shadeslayer> Your gdm log files may help developers diagnose the bug, but may contain sensitive information.  Do you want to include these logs in your bug report? : lol!!!
[13:25] <shadeslayer> i use kdm... stupid apport
[13:25] <shadeslayer> ah.. apport crashed on itself :P
[13:25] <apachelogger> ...
[13:25] <apachelogger> pyware
[13:25] <apachelogger> ...
[13:25]  * apachelogger will retire from development and go management
[13:25] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: :D
[13:26] <dantti> apachelogger: packagekir does support package installation that require removal
[13:26] <dantti> which might happen is that apt backend does not support but aptcc does support it works exaclty like apt-get
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> no everybody's favorite python apt backend
[13:27] <apachelogger> dantti: there is some rare flux or something
[13:27] <apachelogger> dunno if aptcc would be affected
[13:27] <dantti> what is a rare flux?
[13:27] <apachelogger> dantti: is switching to aptcc a viable option in your opinion?
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: no dist-upgrade support
[13:27] <apachelogger> ah
[13:27] <apachelogger> dantti: does aptcc do dist-upgrades? ;)
[13:28] <dantti> well there are a few things that it does not have but imo are easy to add
[13:28] <dantti> get-updates returns the results of apt-get dist-upgrade
[13:28] <dantti> I just don't have loots of time to add them all :P
[13:29] <apachelogger> well, since I am retiring form development I cant help :P
[13:29] <dantti> I talked with Ridell some day ago about porting adepts debconf support to packagekit..
[13:30] <dantti> there are lot's of stuff to do still..
[13:30] <apachelogger> *nod*
[13:30] <apachelogger> why is kubuntu using pk again?
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: because it was hailed to be the future of linux package management and everybody said we sucked for not using it
[13:32] <apachelogger> well
[13:32] <apachelogger> ...
[13:32] <apachelogger> the result did not change
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> dantti: the Name: field in the "configure printer" dialog would more accurately be described as Description:
[13:32] <apachelogger> just how it composes :P
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> dantti: But changing the description and location do work
[13:33] <dantti> JontheEchidna: sure it's more accurate I just tought that calling it name as it's the "name" to be shown in print dialogs would make more sense..
[13:33] <JontheEchidna> dantti: The print dialogs don't show the description as the name, in my experience
[13:34] <dantti> hmm you're right... that suck imo :P since you can't change it...
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> http://imagebin.ca/view/DwTt7xn1.html
[13:35] <dantti> maybe qt could use a patch :P
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> Qt printing system has been neglected for a long time :(
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> That John Layt guy has been pretty cool, though
[13:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I thought they reworked it for Qt 4?
[13:35] <apachelogger> Qt 3's was quite the crap
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: that was like 4 years ago
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: not been touched since
[13:36] <apachelogger> oh
[13:36] <apachelogger> well, its not like there is much inovation going on there :P
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> at the least they can maintain their code, and make basic features such as duplexing and printing multiple pages work :/
[13:38] <apachelogger> yay
[13:38] <apachelogger> http://pastebin.ca/1844575
[13:38] <apachelogger> I think I am all out of stuff to implement
[13:39] <dantti> JontheEchidna: I added a comment on his blog that says something about printing, let's hope he reads it. :)
[13:40] <dantti> I guess that for now I show change to Description and on the kcm ui I should also display the print's real name... :P
[13:41] <Riddell> dantti: you're trying to replace system-config-printer-kde as well now too?
[13:42] <dantti> Riddell: well that's another thing that doesn't work here :/
[13:42] <dantti> Riddell: didn't you saw http://dantti.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/printprogress/ ?
[13:43] <Riddell> dantti: have you seen the usability designs for s-c-p-k?
[13:43] <dantti> Riddell: no, where I find them?
[13:43] <dantti> you commented about it but I got no link :P
[13:44] <Riddell> dantti: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdeadmin/system-config-printer-kde/kubuntu_printer_configuration.pdf?view=log
[13:45] <dantti> well almost 2 years of move right?
[13:45] <Riddell> dantti: pardon?
[13:46] <dantti> that log is from 2008
[13:46] <dantti> is that what you want me to see?
[13:46] <Riddell> dantti: well the pdf file it points to
[13:46] <dantti> ah
[13:47] <dantti> I saw it once.. but i really think it makes it very complicated..
[13:47] <Riddell> a full printer config tool isn't simple
[13:48] <dantti> I'm trying to add the localhost:631 & mac config
[13:48] <dantti> it isn't simple but you don't need to put all the info at once to the user...
[13:48] <dantti> maybe he just want's to see the printer status or the queue
[13:49] <dantti> and having to read lots of information is bad imo
[13:50] <Riddell> there is the applet for that
[13:50] <Riddell> dpm: FYI bug 540936
[13:50] <dantti> also I think the localhost:631 is easier to add a printer than that
[13:58] <Riddell> dpm: also bug 540947
[14:02] <dpm> Riddell, thanks for the heads up. In general, if you add a task for the 'ubuntu-translations' project, I'll see the bug and it will save you pinging me. You can ping me nevertheless, though :)
[14:02] <dpm> I think we've got a bug for kdebluetooth already
[14:02] <dpm> let me see...
[14:04] <dpm> kbluetooth, I meant
[14:07] <verbalshadow> has anyone tried out the shaman package manager?
[14:07] <Riddell> dpm: how do you mean add a task?
[14:09] <verbalshadow> is packagekit the problem when it comes to package handling, or is some wrong with the frontend?
[14:09] <dpm> Riddell, sorry, I meant a bug task. Here's how to open one on ubuntu-translations -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs The Ubuntu Translations Coordinators team and other peope interested in translations is subscribed to bugmail for the project, and when you add a task, we all get notified about the bug
[14:10] <dpm> That's how we track translations-related bugs
[14:10] <dpm> Here's some more background
[14:10] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs
[14:15] <shtylman> Riddell: is oem config kde even usable?
[14:19] <shtylman> Riddell: I just tried the latest daily testing iso... and the main panel does't come up in the try kubuntu mode...
[14:19] <shtylman> is this an occasional bug? or happens for you too?
[14:21] <dpm> Riddell, I think I see the problem with kbluetooth. Has it been renamed from kdebluetooth to kbluetooth? If that's the case, I think I can just fix that by disabling https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/kdebluetooth and approving the kbluetooth template. If you can confirm that, I think we can fix this straight away
[14:22] <dpm> and the fix would be visible in the first language pack after the beta
[14:28] <Riddell> shtylman: worked for me with lots of issues in today's live CD.  oem-config-kde doesn't get installed (cjwatson has fixed that now in bzr)
[14:28] <Riddell> bug 540922 too
[14:28] <Riddell> doesn't reboot
[14:29] <shtylman> gotcha
[14:29] <shtylman> I also see the 100% cpu bug ... which is very upsetting and im not sure how or what is causing it yet
[14:37] <Quintasan> hmm
[14:37] <Quintasan> Dolphin refuses to mount /dev/sd* devices :/
[14:38] <Quintasan> SC2 CDKEY @_@
[14:39] <Quintasan> brb
[14:50] <Riddell> dpm: yes kdebluetooth got renamed to kbluetooth
[14:58] <nixternal> Riddell: put up new screenshots last night for Karmic->Lucid. Need to take 2 more screenshots, actually 3. 1 of alt+f2 for upgrading via alt cd, 1 for the reboot popup, and 1 for the final desktop. I was experiencing the black panel last night, and when using qemu the wallpaper isn't blue, it is freakin' brown, so my screenshots ont he desktop were hosed
[15:00] <Riddell> nixternal: ok i can do final desktop easily enough
[15:00] <Riddell> nixternal: wallpaper is brown though?  really?
[15:04] <Riddell> nixternal: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/lucid-upgrade-final-desktop.png
[15:04] <Riddell> nixternal: by the way hardy to lucid we won't care about, it's not supported
[15:07] <Riddell> nixternal: did you report the no wallpaper on upgrade bug?
[15:13] <nixternal> Riddell: yeah, that is a qemu issue, and it seems I am the only one who has used kde inside of qemu, as google thinks I am silly for asking it such questions on the subject
[15:13] <nixternal> I didn't report the bug because it was late and I just wanted to go to bed :)
[15:13] <nixternal> I am fairly certain there is an open report for it somewhere already
[15:14] <Riddell> I use virtualbox when doing the VM thing
[15:15] <nixternal> yeah, i may start using vbox again...qemu is just faster than vbox, though vbox has some features that make it better
[15:15] <Riddell> nixternal: I'll report the wallpaper bug then
[15:16] <nixternal> heh, qemu is kind of like gnome, easier with less visible options, you have to tweak it via the command line, kind of like switching buttons back to the right hand side with gconf :p
[15:16] <Riddell> :)
[15:16] <nixternal> speaking of GNOME, I get to hang out with all of them this weekend, as we are hosting the Desktop Help Summit here in Chicago
[15:17] <nixternal> I will be the only KDE dude there....hoping to learn more about project mallard and a way to create the greatest help system for KDE
[15:17] <Riddell> lots of gnome uses need help?
[15:17] <nixternal> because KHelpCenter blows goat arse
[15:17] <Riddell> yes a freedesktop standardised help system would be nice
[15:17] <nixternal> Riddell: good point, I will make sure I let them know, as I sit there with this loving glow and halo effect :)
[15:19] <nixternal> and last night, I think I learned why Ubuntu switched the buttons to the left. Ayatana popups. Some people, myself included, tend to think you click it to go away. So when they go to that cornder where the popup is and click it, they close the window behind it
[15:19] <Riddell> nixternal: actually I seem to mind from guadec a few years ago their new docs format was on freedesktop and I pointed out this must mean they're hoping for it to be a cross desktop standard, to which they mumbled something and moved on
[15:20] <nixternal> yeah, Shaun McCance is behind it all. Mallard is just a new type of DTD that is made specifically for topic based help. It is better than DocBook in that case
[15:21] <nixternal> which would be nice, because if you are using Kubuntu and install Rhythmbox or Banshee or something from GNOME, it would be nice to view the help file w/o having to install yelp, and vice-versa for KDE apps on GNOME.
[15:21] <nixternal> so we could use KHC to view GNOME docs and they could use Yelp to view KDE docs
[15:22] <Riddell> yep
[15:22] <nixternal> right now, the current config for docs in KDE sucks. I have been doing it for how long now and there are some things I just don't get, KHC's code base for one is so damn complex for just a simple help browser...and I still don't understand the entire translation process
[15:23] <nixternal> which I chalk up to being just another dumb american and not having experienced a translated system
[15:24] <nixternal> ahh, the good ol' US. Where they teach only English as a requirement, and don't even teach that well, especially here in Chicago. Most schools do have the option to take Spanish and French though :)
[15:24] <Riddell> and (arguably) it should all be done on a wiki so normal people can edit the docs without having to care about the technical stuff
[15:24] <nixternal> I took Spanish, I was an honors student in Spanish, and almost failed english every freakin' year in school :)
[15:24] <nixternal> I will never support the wiki way
[15:24] <nixternal> normal people shouldn't be editing system help documentation
[15:25] <nixternal> open up KHC, browse for About Kubuntu, and there it is, something about openSUSE being better and you shouldn't use Kubuntu
[15:26] <nixternal> I like having docs in a repo with a bit of control on who can commit and who can't, and getting the diff in the email for a doc commit is much better than getting the diff from a wiki edit, which would amount to a massive amount of email
[15:26] <jjesse> +1 from me
[15:26] <nixternal> i know you are +1, we have already beat this horse to death in KDE for the past 5 years
[15:27] <nixternal> and to be honest, in Kubuntu and in Ubuntu, I think there needs to be a Canonical employee looking it over or in charge of system help documentation instead of morons like jjesse and myself :D
[15:28] <nixternal> jjesse: did you call me this morning?
[15:28] <jjesse> well a canonical employee that works with the doc team instead of swooping in at the last second and try and demand how things go
[15:28] <jjesse> no i thought you said afternoon
[15:28] <jjesse> i can call right now
[15:28] <nixternal> you mean mpt?
[15:28] <nixternal> no, haven't had my coffee yet :)
[15:29] <nixternal> someone from michigan called me this morning, so it was either you or one of them nuckled heads on the eastern shores of michigan
[15:29] <jjesse> nixternal:  no there have been others that post to the doc mailing list that seem to trhow the canonical employee around
[15:29] <jjesse> damn those michigan knuckleheads
[15:29] <nixternal> oh, i know who you are talking about
[15:29] <nixternal> area code 248, so that isn't you...are you guys 616?
[15:30] <jjesse> yeah 616 is me
[15:30] <jjesse> 248 is east side of state
[15:30] <nixternal> what would be great for docs, is a cross platform viewer...ie. help-gtk, help-kde
[15:31] <verbalshadow> 231 north and 906 UP
[15:31] <nixternal> do all the parsing on the backend, with a simple front end to display it
[15:32] <shadeslayer> btw does anyone get a crash while switching plasma themes? kwin crashes here
[15:32] <nixternal> there is also another area code in those parts as well, because my aunt who is in eau claire, by benton harbor, has a different one now
[15:32] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: kde bug 182026
[15:32] <nixternal> shadeslayer: yes
[15:32] <nixternal> and there is the bug report for it :)
[15:32] <nixternal> actually, KWin crashes, no krunner
[15:32] <mgraesslin> same issue
[15:32] <nixternal> but that was in qemu last night
[15:33] <shadeslayer> yep!
[15:33]  * nixternal grabs vbox
[15:33] <shadeslayer> weird thing... it didnt do this in karmic... in fact it failed to change the theme in karmic :D
[15:33] <nixternal> Riddell: do you use vbox from our repos or upstream?
[15:34] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: ah thank god...i thought ill have to install dbg packages :P
[15:34] <shadeslayer> dont have loads of bandwidth
[15:35] <mgraesslin> it's currently the crash that annoys me most - that's why I know the number;-)
[15:37] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: hehe
[15:44] <Riddell> nixternal: from the archive
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer, mgraesslin: I've been testing the patch against 4.4.x for mpyne. Since everything's been going well, next time I see him I'm going to ask if it would be appropriate to backport it to our 9.10 packages
[15:45] <mgraesslin> oh that sounds good
[15:45] <mgraesslin> I just hope that it will be fixed before 10.04 will be released - or we will have much useless work in the bugtracker ;-)
[15:45] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: +1
[15:45] <shadeslayer> hehe
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> mgraesslin: Me too. That's the most dupe'd KDE bug in launchpad at the moment
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> bug 321281 I think
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[15:46] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: any idea what i should install to get nouveau back? i installed the nvidia binary blob
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> has over 100 dupes
[15:46] <shadeslayer> :D
[15:46] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: sorry no idea - never dared to try nouveau
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: shouldn't deactivating the driver in jockey do the trick?
[15:47] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: hmm maybe... im not sure :)
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> I'm quite sure that it's designed not to leave you with an unusable system if you do so, at least
[15:48] <shadeslayer> hmm..
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: btw, how is jockey in 10.04?
[15:48] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: crashy :)
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> :(
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: been filing bug reports?
[15:48] <nixternal> jockey actually worked well for me in 10.04
[15:49] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: well not that bad.. but when you click on close it still continues to download in the background
[15:49] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: apport kde is crashy too :P
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: yeah, apport-kde's horrible about that. Though it's mostly bindings bugs
[15:50] <shtylman> Riddell: ever use testdrive with kubuntu? any better way than always specifying the iso url?
[15:50] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/540919
[15:50] <Riddell> shtylman: I don't think I know what that is
[15:50] <shadeslayer> its a private bug :)
[15:51] <shtylman> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[15:51] <shtylman> apt-get install testdrive
[15:51] <shtylman> its very useful
[15:51] <shadeslayer> lol : https://launchpad.net/~apport/+karma
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+karma :D
[15:53] <shadeslayer> \o/
[15:53] <Riddell> shtylman: I'm not sure what problem that solves compared to running it by hand
[15:53] <shadeslayer> ok ill brb
[15:53] <shtylman> Riddell: thats the problem it solves :)
[15:53] <shtylman> it makes the vm for you and starts it
[15:53] <shtylman> its just a convenience
[15:53] <shtylman> but anyhow... I figured out how to do it
[15:54] <shtylman> so all is well
[15:55] <Riddell> shtylman: compared to downloading the iso, waiting for it to boot up, doing the install and checking everything works that seems like a small part of the process
[15:55] <shtylman> Riddell: but a simple part to avoid :)
[15:57] <shtylman> I didn't write it ... but I can use it :p
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: up for testing a jockey patch?
[16:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I can try
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: It's for the bug you reported: http://pastebin.com/nGmrcg7i
[16:07] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm, not sure I can recreate the crash
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: From the traceback, it looks like the crash happens when there's no net connection when jockey starts up on a fresh system
[16:09] <Riddell> let me drop the net then
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: oh, remove the setWindowIcon line. that'll introduce a new crash
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> and um, ignore the .ui file changes :)
[16:15] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: so just that one line to change?
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: yes. One unfortunate side effect will be that it will inherit the gtk icon
[16:19] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: dialogue box shows now, new error
[16:19] <Riddell> http://pastebin.com/ezTdZDkd
[16:19] <Riddell> you have to rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* to recreate
[16:19] <JontheEchidna> progress!
[16:20] <Riddell> that's the spirit!
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> I do wonder how it's calling ui_progress_update before self.progress_ui is initialized
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> I can't reproduce the second crash :(
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> I can confirm that the first fix works, now that I have the "remove apt lists" trick :)
[16:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: Nice blog post.
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: new patch: http://pastebin.com/4wgvfmJk
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I think I'll commit the first part of the patch as a fix for the bug you filed. It looks like your second crash could only happen when there's an internet connection (or maybe that could be part of the bug?)
[16:54] <maco> anything need packaging?
[16:56] <Riddell> maco: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/540396 needs tending to (I've not had time to look at it, extra depends needed on karmic amarok maybe?)
[16:56] <Riddell> hmm, maybe that's not what I thought it was
[16:56] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I don't think I had an internet connection
[16:57] <Riddell> well, maybe I did.  too many tests done today
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: that's weird. The backend is trying to tell us that it's downloading packages. Perhaps it's a backend bug?
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> at any rate, that patch should catch the AttributeError and allow the backend to at least think it's updating a progress UI
[17:00] <daskreech> Did Koffice get packaged?
[17:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: no dialogue this time and still getting no attribute progress_ui errors
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> :s
[17:03] <Riddell> daskreech: quintaisan was doing it
[17:03] <daskreech> k
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> I may have to fire up a vm and do further testing...
[17:03] <Riddell> maco: anyway amarok in karmic ppa backports needs a depends on mysql-something
[17:04] <maco> Riddell: ok
[17:06] <Riddell> maco: do you have good enough internet access to make a chroot and install amarok and see if the collection works?
[17:07] <maco> Riddell: did we go over that bit where i dont konw how to make a chroot from which i can run things and based on that a certain flatmate says he'd take away my upload rights?
[17:08] <maco> (he thankfully cant do that ;-) )
[17:08] <Riddell> maco: it's trivial to do though, I can tell you easily enough
[17:08] <Riddell> sudo debootstrap karmic karmic
[17:08] <Riddell> sudo mount -t none -o bind /tmp karmic/tmp
[17:08] <Riddell> same for /proc and /dev
[17:08] <Riddell> xhost +
[17:09] <Riddell> sudo chroot karmic
[17:09] <Riddell> install amarok from backports
[17:09] <Riddell> run
[17:09] <Riddell> see what breaks
[17:09] <Riddell> see what parts of mysql need to be installed to fix it
[17:09] <maco> so if i do that in ~  itll make a ~/karmic in which the chroot'll live?
[17:09] <Riddell> yes
[17:24] <Fersure> Hello. Is there something similarto KUser available that's a tad easier to grasp/use?
[17:24] <Fersure> *Similar to
[17:24] <JontheEchidna> Fersure: Yes, we ship a userconfig utility that shows up in the "Advanced" tab of System Settings
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> The "User Management" module
[17:25] <Fersure> Ah yes, I see it. I never noticed it before for some reason.
[17:25] <Fersure> Thank you. :)
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> :)
[17:26] <Fersure> Is it Kubuntu specific? Or shipped with upstream KDE?
[17:26] <daskreech> \o/ for having an answer before the question is asked
[17:28] <JontheEchidna> Fersure: We've not gotten it into upstream KDE, but it's available for any distribution that wants to package it
[17:28] <JontheEchidna> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/guidance/userconfig-kde4
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> Would be nice to get that upstream ,though
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> yuriy_work: We should get another userconfig release out before freezes sneak up on us
[17:32] <yuriy_work> yeah.. i've been meaning to take a day and fix all the reported bugs
[17:32] <yuriy_work> i haven't seen anything particularly difficult
[17:32] <yuriy_work> but so far only got to one
[17:32] <Fersure> JontheEchidna: I agree. Or at least something similar.
[17:33] <yuriy_work> i also updated OO.o oxygen icons, but still need to get that into ooo-build so hopefully it can get included in Lucid
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> nice. THough you may have to worry about UI freeze now for that...
[17:34] <yuriy_work> yeah :-\
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> anyways, just give a holler if you need the next userconfig release tar'd/packaged
[17:35] <Zorael> plasma-widget-networkmangement-pptp in kubuntu-ppa/experimental (still) can't be installed.
[17:35] <Zorael>   plasma-widget-networkmanagement-pptp: Depends: knm-runtime (= 0.9~svn1102346-0ubuntu1~ppa2) but 0.9~svn1102346-0ubuntu1~ppa4 is installed.
[17:37] <jjesse> nixternal: you available for me to call?
[17:42] <nixternal> jjesse: yeah, I have a few minutes
[17:46] <jjesse> cool
[17:47] <jjesse> did you ignore my call?
[17:48] <nixternal> hrmm
[17:49] <nixternal> my phone isn't ringing, it is just sending people to voice mail
[17:49] <maco> Riddell: xhost + ?? whats that?
[17:49] <jjesse> calling again
[17:49] <nixternal> I am not in the ghetto, so the verizon network people shouldn't be scared
[17:50] <maco> someone was just telling me they hate amarok 2 because it doesnt have a tabular layout, so you cant sort
[17:50] <maco> the playlist
[17:50] <maco> i told them "yeah there's a button right above it for that..."
[17:50] <Riddell> maco: xhost +   removes access permissions for X
[17:50] <maco> so then they said well its still not tabular!
[17:51] <maco> AND they want to be able to sort by rating then delete everything that has 1 star. can only delete from collection which wont show rating. im like "so you want delete-from-collection in the playlist where you can see the rating" "yes. and a tabular layout so i can resize columns"  ... i told him he should use rhythmbox
[17:52] <maco> (he says amarok was clearly infiltrated by gnome people and thats why he hates it... yet when describing his ideal interface, he describes rhythmbox)
[17:52] <maco> this sounds silly
[17:53] <maco> Riddell: i assume i need to put some music somewhere in the chroot to test this
[17:54] <nixternal> w00t, jjesse just called me and talked dirty on the phone
[17:55] <nixternal> shoot, I can't remember what I was doing now before you called
[17:55] <JontheEchidna> putting your keys in the fridge
[17:56] <daskreech> lol
[17:56] <nixternal> oh now I remember, I wasn't doing a damn thing, so there was nothing to remember
[17:56] <nixternal> is that where my keys are?
[17:56] <nixternal> actually, I am all about security, so I leave my keys in the car and lock the doors
[17:56] <JontheEchidna> haha
[17:57] <shtylman> Riddell: are kubuntu related bugs tagged in launchpad somehow?
[17:58] <shtylman> also.. whenever you file a bug for ubiquity related to kde feel free to subscribe me
[17:58] <shtylman> I don't always read all the launchpad email
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: subscribe or assign; which would you prefer?
[17:58] <shtylman> but I do check my subscribed bugs pretty often
[17:58] <nixternal> i am glad someone does
[17:58] <maco> Riddell: wait a second. this chroot. i need to install 2.2 first dont i? and run it, then install 2.3 from backports and run it?
[17:58] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: I would say generally subscribe because sometimes the other installer folks get around to fixing it
[17:58] <nixternal> i need to get back in the bug mood
[17:59] <shtylman> cause the root cause may not be kubuntu related
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: kk
[17:59] <shtylman> so I can take a look and assign myself if needed
[18:00] <Riddell> maco: I don't think installing 2.2 makes any difference ( I suspect that not having akonadi installed might)
[18:01] <Riddell> shtylman: http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 is bugs milestoned to a lucid milestone and tagged "kubuntu"
[18:01] <maco> Riddell: i thought it was people saying their collections didnt get transfered from old-way to new-way?
[18:02] <Riddell> maco: dunno, I suspect it's some part of mysql not being installed, testing is needed to find out
[18:02] <Riddell> davmor2: are you related to this David Mark Robert Morley chap who wants to befriend me?
[18:02] <maco> O_O "apt-get install amarok" is a looooooooot
[18:02] <shtylman> Riddell: ah... thank you.. how did you come to that page?
[18:03] <shtylman> some complicated search query?
[18:03] <jjesse> nixternal: i only talk dirty to you
[18:03] <Riddell> shtylman: yes
[18:03] <shtylman> heh
[18:04] <Riddell> shtylman: the release team uses a page that looks for bugs which are milestoned and targetted for lucid (so always nominate for release bugs to lucid too)
[18:04] <daskreech> jjesse: He's the only one that answers?
[18:07] <nixternal> grr baby grr
[18:09] <maco> wow while that chroot is busy installing amarok, my not-chrooted amarok is stuttering from the load
[18:11] <nixternal> my amarok is playing a video!!! \o/ for the win baby, for the win!
[18:11] <Riddell> nixternal: where did that come from?
[18:12] <daskreech> Youtube
[18:15] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you please do the sync in Bug #534264?  It's lack is making fabo unhappy.
[18:16] <jjesse> Riddell: it came from me talking dirty to him
[18:18] <nixternal> Riddell: there is a video applet in amarok now that can play videos
[18:19] <ScottK> Beta 1 is pushed back to tomorrow AM UTC
[18:24] <daskreech> [Reason?]
[18:25] <shtylman> daskreech: too many bugs :)
[18:25] <daskreech> Ah and my friend updated to it last night to try it out
[18:26] <daskreech> I told him it was rough right now but he reasoned that it's the beta so it should be pretty smooth
[18:26] <daskreech> It was to tell the truth
[18:26] <ScottK> Too many uploads, too late, so testing not done.
[18:26] <daskreech> But still for an LTS release that's not a great first step to public release
[18:26] <daskreech> Does Kubuntu have a burn down chart?
[18:27] <ScottK> Somewhere.
[18:27] <ScottK> Riddell normally worries about it.
[18:27] <Riddell> pitti tried it but I never saw anything useful burndown chart wise, mostly you can scan https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo for green
[18:27] <davmor2> Riddell: tis I
[18:28] <Riddell> and for bugs I again highlight my favourite link http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
[18:28] <daskreech> It's nearly all green
[18:30] <shtylman> Riddell: was there ever a bug filed for kde installer using 100% cpu?
[18:30] <shtylman> or did we just talk about it
[18:31] <Riddell> shtylman: yes
[18:31] <shtylman> Riddell: happen to remember a bug number?
[18:31] <shtylman> I can't seem to locate it
[18:32] <Riddell> bug 538505
[18:32] <shtylman> thanks
[18:32] <Riddell> it's missing the tag and it's not nominated for lucid, tsk
[18:32] <Riddell> ubiquity bugs really need a triage I've noticed, there's > 1000 open
[18:34] <shtylman> wow
[18:34] <shtylman> well.. I have a fix for that one
[18:34] <Riddell> ScottK: for that sync bug what about "kvpnc depends on pkg-kde-tools >= 0.6.5. We need to have it first." ?
[18:34] <Riddell> shtylman: ooh?
[18:34] <shtylman> so 999 now
[18:34] <shtylman> yea
[18:34] <shtylman> about to commit it
[18:34] <shtylman> you can test it locally if you want (please do)
[18:34] <maco> ARGH
[18:34] <shtylman> if you have the files handy its an easy 1 line fix
[18:35] <maco> is there a way to make Quassel STOP deleting linebreaks/
[18:35] <maco> *?
[18:35] <maco> it used to maintain linebreaks for multi-line pastes. now it totally deletes linebreaks and its really annoying
[18:35] <ScottK> Urgh.
[18:41] <shtylman> Riddell: fix has been commited
[18:46] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Would you please look at Bug #534264 and answer Riddell's question ^^^ since you ack'ed it.
[18:52] <maco> Riddell: um im heading back to no-wifi-zone in like a half hour :( so i dont think i can work on this amarok thing now
[18:55] <shtylman> no wifi zone eh
[18:55] <shtylman> sounds like a dmz
[18:56] <daskreech> Dead Mooching zone?
[18:56] <shtylman> ...
[18:56] <shtylman> funny
[18:57] <ScottK> Dear websvn.kde.org hamsters, please peddle faster.
[18:59] <shtylman> ScottK: hopefully the git hampsters will be faster
[19:00] <nixternal> hopefully there will be git hampsters
[19:00] <shtylman> oh there will be... we just don't know when
[19:00] <nixternal> right now it seems the git hampsters aren't powerful enough to run the entire kde project
[19:00] <shtylman> haha
[19:00] <maco> daskreech: yep. all teh wifi by my aunt's house has passwords
[19:01] <nixternal> so now they are trying to figure out how to create a git hampster on steroids so the work towards git can continue
[19:01] <nixternal> which means, i need to learn git
[19:01] <daskreech> All the wifi in my neighbourhood have linksys as the name and admin admin on the passwords
[19:01] <nixternal> and tomorrow, i am taking an hour long git class at http://www.flourishconf.com :)
[19:01] <daskreech> I logged into a few and tuned them to run faster
[19:01] <nixternal> oh, they aren't admin1234 passwords anymore?
[19:02] <daskreech> I'm surrounded by old people who are talking to their children abroad
[19:02] <nixternal> sounds like ScottK's neighborhood
[19:02] <ScottK> I tend to see ~ 10% unencrypted, 80% WEP, and 10% WPA when I do surveys.
[19:02] <maco> thre are only 3 APs in her neighborhood
[19:03] <nixternal> gangsters in ScottK's hood use canes, but not to be pimps, it is because their hips can't take the abuse of walking anymore
[19:03] <maco> there used to be 1 unencrypted one with a really low signal thatd drop a lot and be slow when i visted 3 years ago
[19:03] <nixternal> and you gotta be careful, otherwise they will pull a derringer on you
[19:03] <maco> i'm surprised there's any wifi at all here at the ski resort. there was none 3 years ago except "Free Public WiFi"
[19:04] <maco> (that is, there was 1 AP *total* and it was unencrypted)
[19:04] <maco> apparently colorado hasnt really heard of this "wireless internet" thing
[19:04] <nixternal> when i went to vail, and at breckenridge, there was a ton of free and fast wifi
[19:04] <nixternal> that was just last year
[19:05] <maco> nah i had to pay $25 to get a week of wifi here in vail, and its about 15Kbps
[19:05] <maco> sometimes it bursts to 50Kbps!
[19:06] <nixternal> where at in vail are you?
[19:06] <maco> west vail
[19:07] <JontheEchidna> Riddell, ScottK, fabo: looks like kvpnc doesn't really need pkg-kde-tools, 0.6.5. Might be better to just merge it with the only difference being the use of pkg-kde-tools 0.6.4.
[19:07] <maco> meadow creek
[19:07] <nixternal> we stayed at Lionshead in an expensive ass lodge
[19:08] <maco> agh firefox is using less than 400mb but *still* all 4gb of ram + 1.3gb of swap are in use
[19:08] <nixternal> right at the base of the mountain
[19:08] <maco> nixternal: my aunt's friends have a condo two shuttle bus stops from lionshead (farther west)
[19:09] <nixternal> the arabelle at vail square is nice...my best friend's family is on the board for them, so we get to stay there free, otherwise their you would pay anywhere from 1200 to 3500 or so a night
[19:10] <nixternal> i paid for 5 days at lionshead and it was $500/night
[19:11] <maco> um how many nepomuk processes should be running at a tinme?
[19:12] <maco> ive got 10 running and this seems excessive. i wouldve thought 1 would be enough
[19:15] <Fersure> um, I'm trying to follow the guide for packaging in *buntu and I seem to be getting some errors (I'm totally new to this so I've just followed the PackagingGuide on the wiki)
[19:16] <debfx> does kate save settings like tab width per file?
[19:16] <daskreech> maco: me too
[19:17] <Riddell> debfx: no I think that's globally set
[19:17] <Fersure> this is the error I get when running "debuild -S"
[19:17] <Fersure> http://pastebin.com/xjGCNiH9
[19:18] <Riddell> hi Fersure, what's in debian/rules ?
[19:18] <Fersure> Riddell: What it shows in PackagingGuide/Basic
[19:18] <Fersure> on the wiki
[19:18] <Fersure> o_O
[19:18] <debfx> Riddell: I set the tab width to 4, which works for every file except one, which has tab width 8
[19:18] <pygi> Riddell, hey
[19:19] <Fersure> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#rules <-
[19:19] <Riddell> hi pygi
[19:19] <pygi> Riddell, do you have a moment to talk about GSoC?
[19:19] <pygi> I like one of the ideas :)
[19:20] <Riddell> Fersure: tar up the debian/ directory and put it on a web server somewhere, I'll look
[19:20] <Riddell> pygi: can do
[19:21] <Fersure> Riddell: Okay. Thanks.
[19:21] <pygi> Riddell, the idea I like is KDE UbuntuOne client
[19:21] <pygi> and was wondering what's the priority of that idea for Kubuntu?
[19:21] <Riddell> pygi: I'd like to see it and we get quite a few requests for it.  I know the Ubuntu One team would like to see it
[19:22] <pygi> Riddell, so this would basically be building QT interface and KDE integration on top of the existing U1 backend?
[19:23] <Riddell> it's something apachelogger has looked into and there's the ubuntu one team who hopefully could help
[19:23] <Riddell> but yes, getting dolphin talking to the U1 file store
[19:24] <apachelogger> pygi: ubuntu one standas for a lot of things
[19:24] <Riddell> maybe sharing bookmarks from KDE through U1
[19:24] <Riddell> as a nice starting point
[19:24] <pygi> apachelogger, yes, music store, file sharing, etc :P
[19:24] <apachelogger> first I would go create a kded module that interacts with the u1 daemon
[19:24] <apachelogger> that way async interaction becomes way easier
[19:25] <apachelogger> for music store you would have to implement an amarok collection plugin, for which there is quite good API
[19:25] <apachelogger> amarok 2 was designed to make this part very extensible
[19:25] <pygi> so I guess you expect support for all U1 functionalities done during GSoC?
[19:25] <apachelogger> bookmark sharing depends on making an akonadi agent/resource for couchdb
[19:26] <apachelogger> pygi: nope, for filesharing kded module + dolphin integration would suffice
[19:26] <apachelogger> for music store and bookmark stuff youd need to create a kded module and said akonadi resource/agent
[19:26] <Fersure> Riddell: http://fersure.chanops.org/hello_2.4-debian-rules.tar.bz2
[19:26] <maco> Riddell: im trying to run amarok 2.2 from that chroot and it doesnt work
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> I am wondering, if my proposal would fill 10-12 weeks of coding time: http://pastebin.com/Kb0Ghzeq Any input? Things anybody'd like to see in language-selector?
[19:27] <maco> process 22822: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory
See the manual page for dbus-uuidgen to correct this issue.
<unknown program name>(22822)/: KUniqueApplication: Cannot find the D-Bus session server:  "Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-7WdSUIt1n7: Connection refused"

<unknown program name>(22821)/: KUniqueApplication: Pipe
[19:27] <maco>  closed unexpectedly.

[19:27]  * maco shakes fist at quassel
[19:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: other than it being cpp? ;)
[19:27] <pygi> apachelogger, ah ok, thank you :)
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: :P
[19:28] <Riddell> Fersure: see that bit which says "# REMOVE THIS LINE:"  that's a clue
[19:28] <apachelogger> pygi: the project really scales up but for the kded you could mostly reuse the stuff I created for my tech preview
[19:28] <maco> Sput: why does quassel keep deleting my linebreaks? i have multiline editing enabled in the settings
[19:28] <pygi> apachelogger, right, I'll think more about this...but I've been interested in this for a while :)
[19:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: bookmarks aren't in akonadi I'm sure
[19:29] <Sput> maco: not sure
[19:29] <Sput> maco: works here
[19:29] <Sput> maco: are you using shift+enter to start a new line?
[19:29] <apachelogger> pygi: the thing with dolphin integration is that AFAIK there is no generic API, but I suppose one could build up on the SVN integration
[19:29] <Fersure> Riddell: Oh. I kept that because of what it said afterwards about 'eating the shebang'. D:
[19:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: akonadi got a bookmarks resource, so technically it could
[19:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: technically it should and will
[19:29] <Fersure> Wasn't sure exactly what it meant. I'll fix that now.
[19:29] <apachelogger> so making u1 use the old html based bookmarks would be nothing but short minded
[19:29] <maco> Sput: im pasting multiple lines of text into the textbox. in the textbox they display as multiple lines. when i hit enter to send it, the newlines all go away
[19:29] <Fersure> Riddell: ty, and sorry for being such a newb at this. lol :)
[19:30] <Sput> maco: hmmm... and you're using the most recent package?
[19:30] <maco> Sput: for instance what i pasted up there was 3 separate lines and somehow became only one line in quassel
[19:30] <Riddell> Fersure: let us know if you need more help
[19:30] <maco> Sput: whatever's in lucid
[19:30] <Sput> we've had some bugs in that regard, but I *think* they've been fixed
[19:30] <Sput> (but I also think it should be in the version ScottK packaged, though I'm not completely sure)
[19:30] <maco> i can check for updates...
[19:30] <maco> well after i reboot. because my computer is using over 5gb of memory rihgt now and ive only got 4gb of ram
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> Fersure: Either this channel or #ubuntu-motu are good for packaging questions, should you have them.
[19:30] <maco> something is memory leaking out the wazoo
[19:31] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: actually I believe it's #ubuntu-packaging now
[19:31] <apachelogger> oh my
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> oh? nobody ever told me :(
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> -motu still has over 200 nicks in it, lol
[19:31] <maco> (quassel is using 212mb, firefox is using about half its usual... only 380mb)
[19:31] <Sput> maco: yeah would be good to check, I think the fixed version wasn't packaged until 4 or 5 days ago
[19:32] <Fersure> Okay. Thanks Riddell and JontheEchidna. :)
[19:37] <shtylman> Riddell: any progress with the logo (shtylman looks with hopeful eyes)
[19:37] <daskreech> Wow
[19:37] <Riddell> shtylman: yes but mostly no
[19:37] <daskreech> I thought eyes like that only happened in animes
[19:38] <shtylman> Riddell: tragic
[19:44] <daskreech> Where is the akonadi_googledata resource?
[19:45] <Riddell> google pay us to install it to collect data on everything you do
[19:45] <shtylman> I for one welcome our new google overlords
[19:49] <Riddell> nixternal: help, how do I attach an image to he help wiki?
[19:50] <Riddell> what I need is a help wiki to tell me how to use this help wiki
[19:51] <daskreech> shtylman: this is publicly spidered so you better :)
[19:51] <shtylman> haha
[19:58] <maco> Riddell: i dont know how you get by on only 1gb of ram. firefox with 1 tab, choqok, quassel, and kontact on their own require 3gb
[19:58] <maco> i dont even have anything extraneous like a photo manager or music player running
[19:58] <maco> or word processor or anything like htat
[19:58] <maco> just my "always open in the background" apps
[19:58] <shtylman> Riddell: did we make a decision on using network manager plasmoid?
[19:59] <shtylman> maco: 1 gb ram used to be A LOT of ram
[19:59] <shtylman> sadly apps these days are eating more and more
[20:00] <maco> shtylman: my mobo maxes out at 4gb (which i have installed). swapping is normal for me :-/
[20:00] <shtylman> something is wrong there...
[20:01] <maco> on jaunty i complained about swapping with 2gb, so i upgraded to 4. now 4 is seeming insufficient, after only one year...
[20:01] <shtylman> deff not right... you should not be swapping with 4gb ... unless you have some insane workload happening
[20:01] <shtylman> are you compiling lots of software with parallel processes?
[20:01] <maco> ram is definitely my bottleneck. my cpu runs at 600mhz all the time
[20:01] <maco> im not compiling anything at all
[20:01] <shtylman> um
[20:02] <shtylman> then what do you have open?
[20:02] <maco> firefox often uses 700mb of ram. thats normal
[20:02] <shtylman> I just don't believe that you have a ram issue
[20:02] <shtylman> try chrome
[20:02] <maco> but quassel and kontact both use upwards of 200mb if left running a couple days
[20:02] <shtylman> 700mb is abismal
[20:02] <shtylman> hmm
[20:02] <maco> choqok uses 150-200mb
[20:02] <shtylman> thats insane...
[20:02] <shtylman> is something leaking?
[20:03] <shtylman> cause those numbers are rediculous...
[20:03] <maco> and then theres a lot of memory that's in use that's unaccounted for by the top 10 processes, that i can only figure are leaks in kdelib
[20:03] <maco> plasma uses 150-200mb of ram as well
[20:03] <maco> knotify4 was using 210mb earlier today
[20:03] <shtylman> I bet alot of that is shared
[20:03] <shtylman> I can't see all those apps using that much memory
[20:03] <maco> i just rebooted, so "only" 3399mb of ram are in use right now
[20:03] <maco> thats the resident column in top, not the virtual one
[20:04] <maco> 27 minutes uptime, 3.4gb ram in use
[20:05] <maco> but like i said i have at least 10 nepomukservice processes. i imagine if there was only 1 thatd free up some memory
[20:05] <Riddell> shtylman: I'm minded against NM plasmoid, there's no compelling reason, people seem to have troubles with it and it's past our feature freeze
[20:05] <maco> (also, my cpu fan is constantly going... has been since 4.4 hit karmic backports)
[20:08] <shtylman> Riddell: hm... alright... lets just hope we can deploy a better version later maybe? concerns with staying with NM regular is that we won't have bugfixes from upstream right?
[20:08] <maco> should dbus-daemon be running twice? its running once as me, once as root
[20:09] <shtylman> maco... I think your system is fscked
[20:09] <daskreech> maco: I have 600 MBs of RAM
[20:10] <Riddell> maco: yes you should have both system and session dbus
[20:10] <maco> Riddell: ok. how about 10 nepomuk processes? what do i need all those for?
[20:11] <daskreech> To keep your lap warm
[20:11] <maco> and whats this virtuoso thing thats hogging up my cpu right now?
[20:11] <maco> shtylman: dapper's looking *really* nice right now. it ran great on 1gb of ram!
[20:11] <maco> oh or feisty. feisty was tremendous. great hardware support and fast!
[20:12] <Riddell> maco: virtuoso is the database for nepomuk
[20:12] <Riddell> you can turn off nepomuk in system setting
[20:12] <daskreech> Feisty was my fav release of Kubuntu so far
[20:12] <shtylman> heh
[20:16] <maco> maybe if i delete a lot of old email, kontact will use less than 130mb of ram?
[20:18] <nixternal> Riddell: you figured it out I see...i was getting ready to do the same thing as you did :)
[20:19] <Riddell> nixternal: I had to add the query to the end of the URL manually
[20:20] <nixternal> oh, you just need to do
[20:20] <nixternal> {{attachment:foobar.png}}
[20:20] <shtylman> Riddell: and for the boot splash we are going with the default ubuntu one for now?
[20:20] <nixternal> don't use the entire url because htere is a possibility it can change with updates
[20:20] <shtylman> have those issues been resolved?
[20:21] <nixternal> you did it right
[20:21] <nixternal> Nightrose: what did you use to make that diagram for kde-soc?
[20:21] <Nightrose> hehe
[20:21] <Nightrose> XMind
[20:21] <Nightrose> best minmapping tool ever
[20:21] <Nightrose> *mindmapping
[20:21] <nixternal> oh rock on
[20:22] <nixternal> i was using inkscape because everything i tried sucked and didn't give me a nice presentation like that
[20:22]  * nixternal grabs xmind
[20:22] <nixternal> take it xmind isn't in the repos either :/
[20:22] <Nightrose> no but there are packages
[20:22] <Nightrose> you can get it from their website
[20:23] <Riddell> shtylman: using the ubuntu theme for plymouth yes
[20:23] <Riddell> shtylman: what issues?
[20:23] <nixternal> yeah, downloading the deb now
[20:23] <shtylman> Riddell: kdm related
[20:24] <Riddell> shtylman: yes
[20:24] <Riddell> shtylman: well we still need a patch for the smooth transition, tseliot is working on that
[20:24] <nixternal> hehe, looks just like eclipse, so i knew it was java based :)
[20:24]  * maco offline til sunday
[20:24] <shtylman> Riddell: gotcha
[20:25] <Riddell> hmm, we need nice kubuntu themes images for the announcement
[20:25] <shtylman> Riddell: we don't have a logo to do that with :(
[20:26]  * JontheEchidna thinks people will start to worry if we don't have logos/bootsplashes by beta2
[20:26]  * shtylman is running around like a chicken with no head cause of it :)
[20:28] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe yea - it's an eclipse plugin afaik
[20:28] <shtylman> Riddell: im thinking a circle of the various icons around the kubuntu logo ... could look nice
[20:45] <ryanakca> Is there any news on a shiny new Kubuntu logo?
[20:45] <dantti> Riddell: there will be a new release tomorrow, I think I forgot the file with that update stuff patch
[20:46] <dantti> can you send again to me so the new PK has support for it ?
[20:49] <shtylman> ryanakca: no :(
[20:49] <Riddell> dantti: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/pk-upgrade-distro.sh
[20:49] <dantti> thanks
[20:55] <Riddell> dantti: fetch again, updated it
[20:56] <dantti> Riddell: are you sure about those echos?
[20:58] <dantti> Riddell: I think you add that to debug wasn't it?
[21:00] <Riddell> dantti: no echos in current version, get it again
[21:01] <dantti> I still get them, can I manually get rid of the 3?
[21:02] <Riddell> jr@wido:~$ w3m http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/pk-upgrade-distro.sh | grep echo elif [ "`which zenity 2> /dev/null > /dev/null; echo $?`" -eq 0 ]; then
[21:02] <dantti> then... ?
[21:03] <Riddell> there's only one echo in it according to   w3m http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/pk-upgrade-distro.sh | grep
[21:04] <dantti> right that is probably my browser cache
[21:04] <daskreech> w3m can be piped?
[21:05] <dantti> Riddell: good commiting it now..
[21:07] <Riddell> dantti: thanks
[21:08] <dantti> yw
[21:12] <dantti> Riddell: is kubuntu using 0.5 right? when will be the next release?
[21:13] <dantti> commited btw
[21:16] <Riddell> dantti: yes 0.5.7 in lucid, release is end of april (beta is today)
[21:17] <dantti> Riddell: right so my work on aptcc and kpk 0.6 to have debconf can maybe get in the next release... :)
[21:17] <dantti> got to go now.. see you guys later...
[21:29] <ScottK> Sput: Our quassel is from 6 days ago.  I don't think you've committed much since.
[21:30] <Sput> ScottK: yes, but we don't know if maco has that version already
[21:30] <ScottK> If she's updated in the last 5 days she has.
[21:30] <ScottK> There's a ~1 day window in there where she make have a trunk snapshot.
[21:33] <ScottK> Riddell: FYI, all the Qt packages that were broken on IA64 are built now so our FTBFS count went way down.
[21:39] <Riddell> ScottK: awooga
[21:40] <Riddell> ScottK: did doko add a fix to qt or was it an issue elsewhere?
[21:40] <ScottK> Riddell: doko worked around a GCC bug by building with different compiler flags on IA64.
[21:40] <ScottK> It builds fine with GCC 4.5.
[22:13] <shtylman> "options" tab under a printer's settings needs to have a scrollbar
[22:13] <shtylman> my printer has lots of options and they have now caused the print setup window to "gow"
[22:13] <shtylman> *grow
[22:13] <shtylman> and I can no longer click accept :(
[22:18]  * ScottK doesn't even want to think about that on a netbook then.
[22:20] <ScottK> (that's my backhanded way of agreeing it needs a scrollbar)
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: http://imagebin.ca/view/iyDma3zd.html :D
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> recursive scrollbar fail: http://imagebin.ca/view/lGFb-pD7.html
[22:23] <ScottK> BTW, I'm preparing a kdebase-workspace upload for ~tomorrow if anyone has stuff that needs to go in.
[22:25] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: I can't go to .ca domains for some reason
[22:25] <shtylman> I think we have a router misconfiguration at work :)
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> sec
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-plasma-desktopeb1616-jpg.jpg
[22:27] <shtylman> what has happened there...
[22:27] <shtylman> something seems... "wrong"
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: same thing that happened to you, but huger
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-plasma-desktopeb1616-jpg.jpg
[22:27] <shtylman> haha
[22:27] <shtylman> thats the same link btw
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> hrm
[22:28] <shtylman> but yea..  Anyone notice the logo on the wall in the photo attached to http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/cyberbullying-not-protected ?
[23:54] <jtechidna> Ha, neat


[19:29] <cruisibesares> hey all im working with maas locally I found this blog post http://marcoceppi.com/2012/05/juju-maas-virtualbox/ I worked with it for a while and decided to build a little wake on lan proxy that essentally calls back to my host and uses the virtuabox command line tool to power on the boxes. It works great so far because it means that once i configure the power type i don't have to manually reboot the virual machine to commision it. T
[19:29] <cruisibesares> hat said i would like to have the boxes auto accepted to the cluster but im not sure how to configure the boxes to register with wol power type by default. is it possible to do that?
[19:29] <cruisibesares> in the case that there are multiple nics i dont care which interface it sends the wol packet to
[19:30] <cruisibesares> i would just like to drop the step where i have to do into the web gui and configure all of the power types by hand
[20:09] <cruisibesares> i think that im going to need to tweak the enlist_userdata file but i would like to avoid messing around with files included in the package