[01:15] <phillw> balloons: just as we get the extra pages on, are quality going to use the iso-tracker theme? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker for tables etc with the header of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker ?
[02:05] <balloons> phillw, ?
[02:06] <balloons> i'm confused by what you mean
[02:12] <phillw> balloons: just the theme for the top of the pages and what colour code I use in the tables that we use :D
[02:12] <balloons> lol.. I like nice looking things..
[02:34] <phillw> balloons: do you want them sync'd up? Im out of brain time now for writing stuff, but can do artwork stuff :D
[02:41] <phillw> are you in favour of bold black, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule or bold white as per http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker (Choose one, it is not too difficault to change later!!)
[02:41] <phillw> balloons: ^^
[02:41] <balloons> phillw, black pls
[02:43] <phillw> balloons: I concur as that is the format of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[02:44] <phillw> We can ask for a change by stgraber to the iso tracker
[02:44] <balloons> :-p
[02:44] <balloons> it's a simple merge request I'd guess
[02:44] <balloons> knome could help if nothing else :-
[02:45] <phillw> it's not too hard to edit the exisitng wiki pages. you have asked for us to be branded with a theme.
[02:49] <phillw> balloons: so, header of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker is the one you want, and bold black on grey as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule is what you wish for?
[02:49]  * balloons notes he is mostly asleep and feels like he's being asked to make an important decision
[02:50] <phillw> yup, White or black :P
[02:50] <balloons> i'm not sure of what the bold black on grey is changing
[02:50] <balloons> but sure
[02:50] <balloons> black not white
[02:50] <balloons> i don't think i can say more than that
[02:50] <balloons> surprise me ;-)
[02:52] <phillw> balloons: It's not a big issue, except that we have to manually change the wiki pages. stgraber can alter the iso-tracker by using the css he has.
[02:54] <phillw> I'll get https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/ set to what is suggested before I hit the sack.
[03:00] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
[03:01] <phillw> that fit the theme?
[03:06] <balloons> ohh nice
[03:11] <phillw> I'll chat with stgraber later, I think we can get get the same theme across both iso-tracker and the QA area. But, as daft as it seems, having the the same theme is important.
[04:49] <pitti> Good morning
[04:50] <phillw> hi pitti :)
[06:50] <jibel> good morning
[11:47] <DanChapman> good afternoon :)
[12:00] <shadeslayer> hi :)
[12:00] <shadeslayer> stgraber: pingly
[12:02] <shadeslayer> stgraber: I'm kind of looking into UTAH and need some help setting it up, I was wondering if you have 10 minutes to help me through that :)
[12:24] <samgabbay> hi everyone
[12:24] <samgabbay> is it the hackfest now?
[12:24] <samgabbay> brb
[12:24] <DanChapman> hi samgabbay, yeah it is :D
[12:25] <samgabbay> Hi Guys Sam here from the QATeam :)
[12:27] <samgabbay> greetingd
[12:31] <samgabbay> can someone send me the browser tor bundle on a mega.co.il or something upload service because i cant download it its blocked  for windows
[13:05] <DanChapman> balloons, hows it goin mate? quiet start to the hackfest i see :)
[13:11] <samgabbay> something
[13:11] <DanChapman> something??
[13:16] <samgabbay> woops
[13:16] <samgabbay> i thought i was disconnected
[13:16] <samgabbay> haahah
[13:16] <samgabbay> stupid me
[13:16] <samgabbay> :P
[13:17] <pitti> jibel: following the "disable apparmor bits" step in otto doc/README..
[13:17] <pitti> jibel: doesn't that need some kind of restarting/reloading AA?
[13:18] <pitti> or is that done by that apparmor_parser -R command?
[13:19] <jibel> pitti, I don't think so since the definition is removed by apparmor_parser
[13:19] <pitti> great
[13:19] <pitti> stopping my normal session then to otto into today's iso and debug udev, bbl
[13:23] <pitti> jibel: hmm
[13:23] <pitti> jibel: README says to do "sudo bin/otto create saucy"
[13:23] <pitti> jibel: but that now says it wants an image name in addition
[13:24] <pitti> jibel: but if I do that and append ~/.../saucy.iso, I get an OSError about an "invalid cross-device link"
[13:24] <jibel> pitti, oh, we changed that and it is not reflected in the README
[13:24] <pitti> jibel: oh, it uses os.link(); I guess you actually want os.symlink()?
[13:25] <pitti> (my /home is on a different partition than /var)
[13:25] <jibel> pitti, well we wanted a hard link
[13:25] <jibel> in case the original image is deleted
[13:25] <jibel> and save disk space without doing an actual copy
[13:26] <pitti> hm, perhaps try: os.link except: os.symlink?
[13:26] <jibel> pitti, right
[13:26] <pitti> it gets a little further with symlink, but then crashes on accessing None
[13:27] <pitti> it complains that the lxc symlink is not an iso, investigating
[13:28] <pitti> ah, it calls file
[13:28] <samgabbay> do you guys recommend that i install ubuntu on a windows 7 computer thats my school computer but that i get to keep but i wnt ubuntu but im not sure if i should just install it over wubi
[13:30] <pitti> jibel: ok, got it
[13:31] <pitti> jibel: how is the start command supposed to look like now? I tried "sudo bin/otto start s" (my container name is "s"), that crashes on "if self.config.command == ..." with "ConfigGenerator object has no attribute command"
[13:35] <jibel> pitti, hm, looking
[13:35] <jibel> pitti, I cannot reproduce the udev hang on a minimal container
[13:35] <pitti> jibel: I could add a hasattr(), but I wonder if that's the right approach; storing the CLI command in the config seems a bit odd
[13:36] <pitti> I did that, now it fails to start the container; not my day :(
[13:37] <jibel> pitti, it is not you, we've been so focused on releasing it for the daily release, that we very likely missed lot of cases
[13:37] <didrocks> pitti: have you created a new container first?
[13:38] <didrocks> because this should add the command parameter
[13:38] <didrocks> pitti: the container model has changed, you need to create a new fresh one now
[13:38] <pitti> didrocks: yes, right before that (and on each retry I purge /var/lib/lxc/*)
[13:38] <didrocks> hum
[13:38] <jibel> I'm redoing an otto setup from scratch on my machien
[13:38] <samgabbay> is it the hackfest?
[13:38] <didrocks> let me try without --upgrade
[13:39] <DanChapman> samgabbay, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest/20130604
[13:39] <DanChapman> take your pick :D
[13:40] <pitti> didrocks, jibel: I pushed the symlink fallback, and otherwise reverted to r89 (my last known-good checkout), have a running saucy iso now
[13:40]  * pitti goes to dive into udev
[13:40] <didrocks> symlink?
[13:40] <didrocks> I probably missed something :)
[13:41] <pitti> didrocks: see backscroll from 15:23:52
[13:41] <jibel> didrocks, hard link fails on cross-devices so it falls back to a symlink in that case
[13:41] <didrocks> pitti: I joined at 15:31:57 :p
[13:41] <didrocks> jibel: ah ok ;)
[13:42] <pitti> we have a hackfest today?
[13:42] <didrocks> ok, it's the fact to not use --upgrade
[13:42] <didrocks> pitti: ^
[13:42] <didrocks> let me fix that case
[13:42] <pitti> didrocks: yeah, figured as much; but when I add a hasattr(), it gets beyond that but then fails to start the container
[13:42] <pitti> didrocks: (but I stopped investigating at this point)
[13:42] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I guess a bunch of variable are missing, let me fix that now :)
[13:42]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[13:43] <DanChapman> pitti, yes i believe so. Although i have not seen balloons around to confirm though apart from yesterdays email
[13:43] <jibel> didrocks, fix the bugs and I'll fix the doc :)
[13:43]  * didrocks hugs pitti back, sorry you didn't try our main case :)
[13:43] <didrocks> jibel: heh :p
[14:01] <didrocks> jibel: pitti: rev 206 should fix it
[14:03] <jibel> didrocks, nope http://paste.ubuntu.com/5732677/
[14:03] <didrocks> jibel: did you start it with -C?
[14:03] <didrocks> oh silly me
[14:04]  * didrocks wonders why this worked though, without -C, should have not worked with .iso…
[14:04] <didrocks> seems that getattr doesn't call __getattribute__
[14:08] <didrocks> jibel: couldn't reproduce it, weird, but rev 207 should be fine
[14:13] <balloons> yes yes.. I hear I said #ubuntu-testing :-(
[14:13] <balloons> that's the old channel
[14:14] <svwilliams> bad balloons
[14:14] <balloons> DanChapman, it's a busy day today..
[14:14] <samgabbay> it is guys
[14:16] <svwilliams> how up to date is the autopilot documentation ... I'm looking at our autopilot tests lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests and we don't have some of the directories in each package name that the documentation talks about ... more specifically it suggests creating an emulators and tests folder
[14:17] <svwilliams> don't want to screw up too royally on my first attempt to make a test :-)
[14:18] <samgabbay> am i assigned to anything yet?
[14:21] <svwilliams> wait ... re-read the section ... its all suggested never mind sorry everyone
[14:22] <stgraber> shadeslayer: I'm affraid I never really used UTAH directly so can't really help you there
[14:24] <DanChapman> samgabbay, you pick something you want to work on
[14:24] <balloons> svwilliams, where is the doc links your talking about?
[14:25] <balloons> samgabbay, no nothing assigned.. feel free to grab a bug or contribute something new :-)
[14:25] <balloons> samgabbay, did you want to write a manual or autopilot test?
[14:25] <svwilliams> balloons, http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/tutorial/getting_started.html
[14:26] <balloons> svwilliams, that should be good, but it's written with a QT perspective
[14:27] <balloons> lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests/production is useful also as stable examples which have been converted and are ready for production: lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests/production
[14:28] <DanChapman> balloons, I will propose evince within the next hour. I had finished it yesterday but saucy completely whacked out and had to re-install so lost it and had to start again. Booo!
[14:28] <balloons> DanChapman, :-(
[14:28] <samgabbay> balloons: nope :?
[14:31] <samgabbay> balloons: what do i have to do?
[14:31] <balloons> samgabbay, you don't no which type your interested in? Manual testcases are easier to write in that you don't need to know python to do it
[14:31] <balloons> if you've not written any tests, try starting there
[14:31] <DanChapman> balloons, how could i check that evince is full screen? I can't seem to find a way to get the window state
[14:31] <samgabbay> balloons: were are they ??? on the iso qatracker?
[14:33] <samgabbay> ?
[14:33] <balloons> there's a tutorial for helping you get started.. one sec
[14:33] <balloons> samgabbay, this is the project: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests
[14:33] <samgabbay> balloons: ik how to i just wanted to know which ones should i do
[14:34] <balloons> we list bugs for all the testcases that need done
[14:34] <balloons> you are free to nab any of them: v
[14:34] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests
[14:35] <balloons> samgabbay, this is a useful info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases
[14:36] <samgabbay> alright here i go
[14:36] <balloons> samgabbay, make sense?
[14:36] <balloons> excellent, let us know if you need helpf directly.. which one are you thinking of taking?
[14:37] <samgabbay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1172452 the issue is im at school
[14:37] <balloons> DanChapman, good question. In the past we asserted the title attribute -- does that not work anymore?
[14:39] <samgabbay> and im on a vbox
[14:40] <samgabbay> soo i jope mil be able to do it
[14:40] <DanChapman> samgabbay, all you need is a text editor
[14:40] <samgabbay> oh
[14:41] <samgabbay> im sooo dumb
[14:44] <DanChapman> balloons in the 1.2 evince test it got the window state by 'windowState = self.app._get_window_states()' but thats gone for 1.3. The title attribute does not change whether the window is maximized or fullscreen mode. I'll probably leave that out of the test for now.
[14:44] <samgabbay> i dont get it what do i have to do
[14:44] <samgabbay> on manual tests
[14:45] <DanChapman> samgabbay there is a video tutorial for it somewhere. balloons is it on your blog or the wiki?
[14:45] <balloons> samgabbay, yes there is
[14:45] <balloons> this youtube channel has all the goodies on it: http://www.youtube.com/qualitybecomesyou
[14:46] <samgabbay> is there a text tuto
[14:46] <balloons> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO7DdlUSt_4
[14:46] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual
[14:46] <balloons> saintlulu, ^^
[14:46] <samgabbay> thx il get ruggt ub ut
[14:46] <balloons> that's everything you need to know
[14:46] <samgabbay> oops
[14:46] <samgabbay> rofl
[14:47] <balloons> DanChapman, OHH.. sorry I misunderstood
[14:47] <DanChapman> :D
[14:47] <samgabbay> im soo dumb
[14:47] <balloons> DanChapman, there is a way for 1.3.. let me look at the docs quickly to remember.. keep hacking :-)
[14:48] <DanChapman> balloons, that would be great :D
[14:48] <balloons> svwilliams, so if you work on thunderbird you'll have to do it similar to the firefox test
[14:49] <balloons> that is, introspection doesn't work.. so your reduced to sending keystrokes and simple things. you can't read what's going on directly in the application
[14:50] <svwilliams> ah ok ... yeah I'm going over the manual tests cases right now and I started with firefox as my template
[14:51] <balloons> you can see the finished firefox autopilot test here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/stable/view/head:/ubuntu_autopilot_tests/firefox/test_firefox.py
[14:51] <balloons> see how it uses the process manager and start_app_window?
[14:53] <svwilliams> yup! balloons how do I test the setup ... it doesn't show up as a test (obviously) but I want to make sure that works first and in theory it should open thunderbird but ... it doesn't
[14:54] <samgabbay> are the vbox additons compatible with raring?
[14:54] <balloons> svwilliams, create your first test function and add a simple assert or print even if you wish
[14:55] <balloons> samgabbay, vbox additions? the client stuff? I don't think I install them inside ubuntu usually when I use it. They should work for linux tho
[14:55] <samgabbay> okay good
[14:57] <balloons> so DanChapman , I believe I tried  get_wm_state to check window state.. and I'm trying to remember, but I think I found a bug with it
[14:58] <samgabbay> how do i make vbox virtualization faster
[14:58] <balloons> basically stuff from autopilot.process.Window on this page: http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/process.html
[14:58] <DanChapman> samgabbay in the settings
[14:58] <samgabbay> ...
[14:58] <balloons> samgabbay, depends if you have things like VT extension or not on your machine, etc
[14:58] <balloons> is it really really slow? what kind of machine do you have?
[14:59] <svwilliams> balloons, et al.  (process:14427): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_slice_set_config: assertion `sys_page_size == 0'
[14:59] <samgabbay> onesec
[14:59] <svwilliams> test still ran but ...
[15:00] <samgabbay> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201202-10548/
[15:00] <samgabbay> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201202-10548/
[15:00] <DanChapman> balloons ok thanks mate, will give it a try see if I can get it going
[15:01] <balloons> DanChapman, yea, if it doesn't work, note it in the test and keep going :-)
[15:01] <balloons> samgabbay, does this return anything? grep -e vmx -e svm /proc/cpuinfo
[15:01] <samgabbay> nope
[15:01] <samgabbay> wait
[15:02] <samgabbay> nope
[15:02] <balloons> if it does you have potential VTx flags to turn on
[15:02] <balloons> if not, then :-)
[15:03] <samgabbay> balloons: how do i get them
[15:03] <balloons> buy a different laptop, lol.. seriously though, there's nothing for you to do if you don't have the flag on your processor
[15:03] <balloons> the other piece is increasing the memory and cpu availible inside vbox settings
[15:04] <balloons> go to settings for your VM and look at the system tab
[15:04] <balloons> up the base memory and processor count
[15:05] <samgabbay> how much should i increse it to or should i install it on  the pc itself
[15:06] <balloons> give it up to half of your machine if you wish
[15:06] <balloons> see if that helps
[15:07] <samgabbay> scru it il do it on my home laptop
[15:10] <samgabbay> unlesss i can get ubuntu via wubi on this computer
[15:10] <balloons> home laptop sounds best
[15:10] <balloons> you can also do things from a live cd but it's not the best etheir
[15:23] <pitti> didrocks: ok, done with debugging; I still cannot use otto trunk, the container doesn't start and I get some lxc_container errors about not being able to send/receive commands
[15:23] <sak> Hello everyone. I'm intime for the hackfest?
[15:24] <balloons> sak, you are indeed my friend
[15:25] <balloons> sak, whatcha thinking of hacking on?
[15:26] <sak> I am going to continue hacking vino and remmina
[15:36] <DanChapman> balloons, I have proposed evince now
[15:37] <balloons> DanChapman, excellent I'll have a look
[15:37] <balloons> sak, :-)
[15:37] <DanChapman> :-)
[15:45] <balloons> DanChapman, ok so it ran fine.. the first time yelp crashed actually
[15:46] <balloons> so wmstate didn't work also right DanChapman ?
[15:47] <balloons> we should have fginther or thomi look at these and help line up some bugs
[15:48] <DanChapman> yelp crashed? i wasnt able to introspect yelp for some reason but it shows up in vis fine. Yeah get_wm_state didnt work either. Was throwing root has no attrib get_wm_state
[15:49] <fginther> balloons, are these autopilot* bugs?
[15:50] <balloons> fginther, indeed.. autopilot gtk issues.. Potentially bugs
[15:50] <balloons> if you have a moment to chat about them, we can do so now :-)
[15:50] <fginther> balloons, please give me a few minutes to wrap another task up
[15:52] <balloons> DanChapman, merged and pushed to prod
[15:53] <balloons> svwilliams, how goes it?
[15:53] <DanChapman> balloons, awesome. Be a good all round test once we can get fullscreen sorted :)
[15:54] <balloons> yes, I trust we'll get some help on that in just a minute :-)
[15:54] <svwilliams> balloons, it goes ok I've got a basic test that opens thunderbird and then closes it.  Unfortunately it's contingent on this being your first time using Thunderbird ... so I need to add more robustness, check to see if the new user dialogue is open etc
[15:54] <balloons> svwilliams, ahh.. the new user dialogs, heh
[15:54] <svwilliams> I'm  committing it now and pushing it to my launchpad profile so I can share and ask advice ... need to fix a conflict in helloworld (which I believe is gone now)
[15:55] <DanChapman> so balloons how do implement umockdev, is there anything i can look at on how to use it?
[15:55] <pitti> didrocks: are you interested in fixing the oneconf autopkgtest?
[15:55] <balloons> DanChapman, we have pitti with us still if you hit something.. but otherwise look at the shotwell test. It uses it, and is a good example of needing it :-)
[15:56] <pitti> balloons: oh, it does? umockdev is only in a PPA for now; I've been meaning to upload it to ubuntu this week (currently working on an autopkgtest)
[15:56] <balloons> pitti, yes it's the one Carla worked on last cycle
[15:57] <pitti> yes, I remember discussing that with her; nice!
[15:57] <pitti> balloons: that's in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/trunk/ ?
[15:58] <DanChapman> balloons, shotwell i will start then :D
[15:58] <pitti> ah, no
[15:58] <balloons> pitti, hmm.. indeed
[15:58] <balloons> I wonder where she put it.. it's not under the project
[15:59] <balloons> I remember looking at it and using it. We'll have to ask her today when she's around
[16:00] <DanChapman> i'll stick that one on hold for now then. Is that them all ported now then apart from shotwell?
[16:00] <fginther> pitti, I'm working on some content for an autopilot-gtk tutorial and looking for some good test examples. If you happen to know if some, could you please send me a link?
[16:00] <balloons> DanChapman, let's see here
[16:00] <pitti> fginther: I know that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/trunk/files/head:/ubuntu_autopilot_tests/ exists, but I haven't looked at them closely yet
[16:00] <DanChapman> ahhh screenshot still to do aswell
[16:01] <sak> balloons when you use "bzr commit", are you tracking lines of text you added to a test file or adding a new line to a test file?
[16:01] <balloons> sak, when you bzr commit your committing all of your changes to the repository locally
[16:01] <fginther> pitti, thanks
[16:01] <balloons> take a look at bzr diff and bzr status
[16:01] <balloons> after your do a bzr checkout, anything you change is recorded.. that's what is committed. Your current state
[16:02] <balloons> DanChapman, yes Carla has a branch for screenshot
[16:02] <balloons> and totem needs done, but I have a branch for that, heh
[16:02] <fginther> balloons, I'm ready if you want to discuss the autopilot issue
[16:02] <balloons> so.. you want to tackle something fun now then?
[16:02] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah i just seen carla's branch
[16:03] <DanChapman> Oh go on then ......
[16:03] <balloons> DanChapman, try tackling this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/+bug/1116774
[16:03] <balloons> it's on the agenda for today :-)
[16:03] <balloons> or you can have at totem.. I've not done much to it
[16:03] <balloons> fginther, excellent. Ok, so we'll start with the one we just ran into. this is more a question I think
[16:04] <DanChapman> I'll have a run at ubiquity and see how i go :D
[16:04] <didrocks> pitti: I didn't do it, not even sure what's in, I think barry plugged it :)
[16:04] <balloons> fginther, I'm going to just talk about stuff in the stable branch
[16:04] <pitti> didrocks: ah, thanks
[16:05] <balloons> So this test we just added: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/stable/files/head:/ubuntu_autopilot_tests/evince/. How can we determine when the application goes fullscreen?
[16:05] <balloons> I believe get_wm_state doesn't work ;-(
[16:06] <fginther> balloons, hmm
[16:10] <balloons> I'm looking at the non-introspection testcase for firefox.. it seems we can check like this:         self.assertThat(lambda: self.app._get_window_states(), Eventually(Contains("_NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN")))
[16:11] <DanChapman> balloons, thats how the evince 1.2 test did it aswell
[16:12] <fginther> balloons, but in that case, self.app was a unity handle,
[16:12] <balloons> right.. I stole it from there I believe :-)
[16:12] <DanChapman> :-D
[16:12] <balloons> fginther,         self.app = self.manager.start_app_window("Firefox")
[16:12] <balloons>         self.manager = ProcessManager.create('BAMF')
[16:12] <balloons> it's using processmanager and bamf
[16:12] <fginther> balloons, yep, so basically the firefox test is asking unity for the window state
[16:13] <balloons> indeed.. we need an agnostic way to do it
[16:13] <fginther> at least some way to do it :-)
[16:13] <balloons> lol
[16:14] <balloons> being able to get and set attributes like that would be good.. it's a point that's unclear
[16:15] <balloons> the other issue is our inability to introspect child windows for most applications. you can see this in the evince test
[16:16] <balloons> so dialog windows are a real pita
[16:16] <fginther> balloons, ok, I'll ruminate on these two things. I'm looking at the code and nothing jumps out at me
[16:16] <balloons> fginther, thank you.. just think about it.. A sane way of dealing with both of those would really help the gtk side of things
[16:16] <fginther> balloons, can you file some bugs if you haven't already?
[16:17] <balloons> fginther, I was looking and didn't see them. I think we had wanted to chat about it first
[16:17] <DanChapman> they sure would help :-)
[16:17] <balloons> should I keep them generic? Or reference a specific test that is failing?
[16:18] <fginther> balloons, please include a reference to the evince tests since you have the example
[16:18] <balloons> fginther, ok if that works I'll use that. It's not a bad example since it shows off both issues
[16:18] <fginther> balloons, If all else fails, I have a regular chat with thomi today and I'll bring this up
[16:19] <balloons> ty fginther
[16:26] <fginther> balloons, didn't we identify a maintainer for autopilot-gtk during the last UDS? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-testing-technologies
[16:26] <balloons> fginther, that would be pitti ;-)
[16:26] <balloons> He's probably wanting to hide atm ;-)
[16:27] <fginther> ha
[16:27] <pitti> not hide, I just didn't start on ap-gtk yet
[16:27] <pitti> had my hands full with distro stuff in the past few weeks, sorry
[16:28] <fginther> balloons, right. just want to set some expectations that autopilot-gtk is not our focus
[16:28] <fginther> pitti, we understand :-)
[16:29] <balloons> fginther, indeed.. I just wanted to pick your brain before saying, yep, these are shortcomings or bugs, not something we didn't understand
[16:30] <fginther> balloons, no problem
[16:38] <sak> Ok balloons, I figured it out. Thanks.
[16:38] <balloons> so we'll just assign the bugs to pitti :-)
[16:38] <balloons> sak, all set then?
[16:42] <sak> Baloons, yup
[16:47] <DanChapman_> well I can't hack at ubiquity today, vbox not playing nice keeps jamming up. and can't find my usb stick. balloons did you say totem needs finishing?
[16:47] <balloons> DanChapman_, yes totem can be had
[16:48] <balloons> so I started on it and found i couldn't find the properties I wanted to introspect on
[16:48] <balloons> DanChapman, i would simplify the testcase alot
[16:48] <balloons> the main loop does a ton of random stuff
[16:49] <DanChapman> ok cool will trim it down :D
[16:49] <balloons> small and basic :-)
[16:56] <sak> so I am now testing vino and remmina on saucy using virtualbox
[16:56] <shadeslayer> stgraber: drat, okay
[16:56] <sak> the version of ubuntu being used is xubuntu 13.10
[16:56] <shadeslayer> stgraber: any ideas who might be able to help me a bit out there?
[16:57] <shadeslayer> stgraber: and apparently UTAH is being replaced with something called otto?
[17:16] <svwilliams> balloons, et all is there some where I can find all the actions one can call from things like self.app.* in autopilot?
[17:19] <svwilliams> WOW never mind ... again I need to look just a little bit harder .. found it when I backed out of the tutorial ... still haven't found app but found keyboard
[17:21] <balloons> svwilliams, yes there is a complete reference
[17:21] <balloons> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/
[17:27] <DanChapman> balloons for totem, will play and pause video suffice for now, i'll leave fullscreen out with a note for future reference. looking at the manual test doing tests on plugins etc looks like it would become a bit hacky
[17:28] <balloons> DanChapman, yes I agree.. play and pause video should suffice.. fullscreen has the same issue as before
[17:28] <balloons> the plugins have changed in the past.. I don't believe anything is on by default now, so it's less important
[17:28] <DanChapman> balloons, ok cool :-)
[17:32] <svwilliams> balloons, ok I'm understanding autopilot more
[17:32] <svwilliams> interesting issue with using start_app_window with thunderbird
[17:32] <svwilliams> because it opens a second dialogue window for new users autopilot can't clean it up
[17:33] <sak> Ok, guys, have to go. Will will back for the next hackfest.
[17:33] <DanChapman> bye sak :-)
[18:04] <balloons> svwilliams, what do you mean it can"t clean up>
[18:40] <DanChapman_> balloons, totem proposed
[18:42] <balloons> DanChapman, :-)
[18:42] <DanChapman_> brb i seem to be logged into irc twice
[18:44] <balloons> DanChapman, no sleeps!
[18:47] <balloons> DanChapman, looks nice and clean.. the introspection for pause failed?
[18:47] <balloons> :-(
[18:54] <DanChapman> Hey Letozaf_
[18:54] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, Hey
[18:57] <balloons> DanChapman, there is own sticky point though I remember from when I was messing with it. The sidebar is used by the "information" sidebar also
[18:58] <DanChapman> balloons how does that affect the test?
[18:58] <balloons> perhaps specifically request the playlist via view->playlist? assuming it's on playlist isn't bad persay as it will be, but
[18:58] <balloons> DanChapman, open your totem and press ctrl+p. close it and run the test
[18:58] <DanChapman> oh i see ok then ill take a look
[18:59] <balloons> it will fail :-) I blame the poor design, heh
[18:59] <balloons> if we can take care of it, probably should I suppose
[18:59] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello!
[18:59] <balloons> did you see my update on the bug for ubiquity?
[18:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi :D
[19:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, no, I just jumped on it without checking :p so maybe I should check :)
[19:00] <balloons> Letozaf_, yes please do..
[19:00] <balloons> also, we were curious about your old shotwell test using umockdev
[19:00] <balloons> and also, how's the screenshot test?
[19:00] <balloons> everything else has been ported.. kudos to DanChapman for many of them
[19:01] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah DanChapman is great, he has done a very good job
[19:02] <DanChapman> WOW! so the only way to get it back to playlist after pressing Ctrl+p is view>playlist. Thats not so good design
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, for screenshot I have nearly finished it, have a couple of problems, if you guys want I can paste it to paste bin or what ever
[19:03] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ sure can take a look :-)
[19:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, instead for shotwell I had just began and I was having problems focusing shotwell window
[19:03] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, ok, just a second
[19:04] <DanChapman> Ahh Letozaf do you mean when you launch gnome-screenshot you get an instant screenshot of the whole screen?
[19:05] <balloons> Letozaf_, I do remember the issue we had with shotwell now. We filed a bug upstream for it
[19:05] <balloons> no way to control things via keyboard or introspection
[19:05] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5733581
[19:06] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, no my problem is veryfing that the screenshot image is ok and bigger than 0
[19:06] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, and cancelling the file after, but seems like the screenshot is not saved under the Pictures directory
[19:07] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, maybe if you run the test you can see better what I mean
[19:07] <DanChapman> Yep just pasting it into a test
[19:07] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes, for shotwell we had a bug
[19:07] <Letozaf_> balloons, I almost forgot it :p
[19:10] <balloons> DanChapman, so yea it seems just hitting view->playlist (no shortcut!) before doing anything should ensure no issues
[19:10] <DanChapman> ok will add that in mate
[19:14] <balloons> so I'll dig up the shotwell bug while you finish screenshot
[19:14] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/shotwell/+bug/1155794
[19:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, cannot find yesterday's bug no. can you give me the no. ?
[19:15] <balloons> this is the upstream.. seems like it was targeted for 0.16 but they dropped it
[19:15] <balloons> http://redmine.yorba.org/issues/6614
[19:16] <balloons> Letozaf_, yesterday's bug on ?
[19:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, on ubiquity
[19:16] <balloons> ohh right
[19:16] <balloons> lol
[19:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, I mean the ubiquity test I left for today
[19:17] <balloons> Letozaf_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/+bug/1116774
[19:17] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks :p
[19:19] <balloons> Letozaf_, I added the bug to the autopilot project so it's shown as a blocker.. not sure why we didn't do that
[19:21] <Letozaf_> balloons, do not know :(
[19:31] <Letozaf_> balloons, but did the ubiquity test work at the end doing what xnox said or do you still have to try it ?
[19:31] <thomi> balloons: ping?
[19:32] <balloons> Letozaf_, it worked for me last week.. I've not tried it in a bit
[19:32] <balloons> thomi, pong
[19:32] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ I keep getting a black screenshot, do you get the same?
[19:32] <thomi> balloons: regarding this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1187484
[19:32] <thomi> balloons: I'm able to see those properties just fine
[19:32] <balloons> thomi, ahh yes tried to file some stuff for gtk woes today
[19:32] <thomi> balloons: although the gtk tree view is kinda dumb
[19:32] <thomi> let me make you a screenshot...
[19:32] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, that happend to me, so I rebooted my notebook and it did not occur after reboot
[19:33] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, do not know why though
[19:34] <thomi> balloons: http://static.inky.ws/image/4002/Screenshot%20from%202013-06-05%2007:32:54.png
[19:35] <thomi> balloons: other items from the dialog are there as well, so I think the bug is, at best, mis-filed
[19:36] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ try this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5733687/
[19:37] <balloons> thomi, ahh right, I just threw the evince case in there
[19:37] <thomi> balloons: this Friday we're having our autopilot planning meeting, where we plan work items for the next month. Would you like to join us?
[19:37] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, thanks let me try
[19:38] <balloons> thomi, so this example looks like the print dialog can't be introspected
[19:38] <thomi> in evince?
[19:39] <balloons> the yelp window can't etheir but that's a seperated issue.. though hmm.. probably a bad example, because the print dialog is spawned by yelp
[19:39] <thomi> what is yelp?
[19:39] <balloons> the help app
[19:40] <balloons> pushing f1 actually launches yelp
[19:40] <thomi> I see
[19:40] <thomi> and the print dialog is spawned by yelp?
[19:41] <balloons> yes come to think of it, indeed it probably is
[19:41] <balloons> I mentioned that app because DanChapman happened to be working on it this morning so we used it as an example for fginther
[19:43] <balloons> so let's see.. I know gedit has things I can't see in it
[19:43] <balloons> or I'm crazy and it's better now
[19:43] <balloons> the replace dialog window was one I couldn't get to work in the past
[19:44] <balloons> argh.. trying to manually look through here is annoying
[19:45] <balloons> thomi I can try and come up with a small code sample that displays the issue.. I intended to do it at some point.. it's just a matter of finding time
[19:45] <balloons> how about the other bug I filed -- does that one make sense?
[19:46] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, I tried to name the file with .png extension but the screenshot is still not saved in Pictures directroy :( do no understand why if you do the same thing not using autopilot it works
[19:47] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, by the way I am getting the black screenshot again :(
[19:52] <samgabbay> hello guys im trying to test and im having a hard time :/
[19:54] <balloons> samgabbay, what are you trying?
[19:54] <samgabbay> any like i dont understand how to submit test results
[19:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, your screenshot is black eh? heh, sounds like a potential driver issue
[19:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, try this on the command line, see if it's blank. import -window root root.png
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok let me try
[19:57]  * Letozaf_ is installing missing imagemagick ...
[19:57] <balloons> :-)
[19:57] <samgabbay> i hate my computer because the fglx driver is not compatible with mobility radeon :(
[19:57] <balloons> anyways I had a box that didn't work with any traditional methods but that import command would work
[19:57] <balloons> the issue was the driver
[19:57] <balloons> samgabbay, :-( I use the open drivers, they work quite nice for my box
[19:58] <balloons> samgabbay, so what do you mean how to submit test results?
[19:58] <samgabbay> they wont work with mine and when i finish testing how do i submit the results to the tests
[19:58] <Noskcaj> morning everyone
[19:58] <Letozaf_> Noskcaj, Hello
[19:58] <samgabbay> like its soooo lagggy when i open search
[19:58] <samgabbay> :/
[19:59]  * SergioMeneses says hi to everybody
[19:59] <balloons> samgabbay, ohh.. there's a fix for that
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, the root.png image is not blank :-)
[19:59] <samgabbay> @ballons HOWWW
[19:59] <meetingology> samgabbay: Error: "ballons" is not a valid command.
[19:59] <samgabbay> balloons,  HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
[19:59] <balloons> Letozaf_, yea, so a driver issue then
[20:00] <balloons> samgabbay, what's this say? /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
[20:01] <samgabbay> one sec
[20:01] <samgabbay> OpenGL vendor string:   X.Org
[20:01] <samgabbay> OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on AMD RS880
[20:01] <samgabbay> OpenGL version string:  3.0 Mesa 9.2.0
[20:01] <samgabbay> Not software rendered:    yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> Not blacklisted:          yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GLX fbconfig:             yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GLX texture from pixmap:  yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL npot or rect textures: yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL vertex program:        yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL fragment program:      yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL vertex buffer object:  yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL framebuffer object:    yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> GL version is 1.4+:       yes
[20:01] <samgabbay> Unity 3D supported:       yes
[20:02] <samgabbay> i think i should put that in a paste next time 0.0
[20:02] <balloons> :-) careful with so much text at once
[20:02] <SergioMeneses> samgabbay, totally agree
[20:02] <balloons> but yea, look at that, looks good
[20:02] <samgabbay> but its sloooooow
[20:02] <balloons> are you on raring?
[20:02] <samgabbay> yea
[20:03] <balloons> wild.. well, there's other hacky stuff to try
[20:03] <samgabbay> huh?
[20:03] <balloons> you'll need ccsm for this part
[20:03] <samgabbay> whats that0.0
[20:03] <balloons> the curse of the earth according to some :-)
[20:04] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ you had any luck yet?
[20:04] <samgabbay> look
[20:04] <balloons> samgabbay,     sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager
[20:04] <knome> balloons, you're totally right ;)
[20:04] <samgabbay> i want to have at least my graphics well working and yea il do that
[20:04] <samgabbay> E: Unable to locate package compizconfig-settings-manage
[20:04] <balloons> I'm just warning you.. this could very well break things.. and ccsm can easily do that
[20:05] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, no :( if I do the exact same thing with screenshot lauching it in terminal I get the screenshot saved to the Pictures folder, in autopilto it does not save it
[20:05] <balloons> samgabbay, your missing the last r
[20:05] <samgabbay> balloons, 0.0
[20:05] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, just seems to do nothing, no .png file anyware
[20:05] <samgabbay> but what if i dont want it to break
[20:05] <knome> balloons, have thing went smoothly after the last markup migration?
[20:05]  * balloons waves to knome
[20:05] <samgabbay> :'(
[20:05] <knome> *things
[20:05] <balloons> knome, indeed.. have a look at the tracker now and see what you think
[20:05] <balloons> everything is installed
[20:06] <balloons> samgabbay, we should be fine
[20:06] <balloons> just be careful what you touch is all
[20:06] <samgabbay> thank god
[20:06] <samgabbay> done what next balloons
[20:07] <balloons> launch it
[20:07] <knome> balloons, cool!
[20:07] <samgabbay> how 0.o
[20:07] <samgabbay> found it
[20:07] <samgabbay> what next
[20:07] <samgabbay> wait
[20:07] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ thats very strange. I cant get it to save either
[20:07] <samgabbay> should i do a backup
[20:07] <balloons> ok, so there are 2 things we're going to go into
[20:07] <balloons> the unity plugin and the opengl plugin
[20:08] <samgabbay> one seccccc
[20:08] <samgabbay> im in unity
[20:08] <samgabbay> plugin
[20:08] <balloons> go to the opengl plugin first
[20:09] <samgabbay> what next
[20:09] <balloons> grab a screenshot of the settings in there so you don't forget
[20:09] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, yeah wonder why :p I am trying to find out
[20:09] <samgabbay> done
[20:09] <samgabbay> im
[20:09] <samgabbay> so
[20:09] <samgabbay> scared
[20:10] <balloons> after that uncheck the sync to vblank and change the texture filter to fast
[20:10] <samgabbay> done what next
[20:10] <balloons> that might fix everything
[20:10] <balloons> if not you can try a couple other tweaks
[20:10] <samgabbay> do i close it?
[20:11] <samgabbay> to test or i jjust open my search
[20:11] <balloons> inside composite uncheck "detect refresh rate"
[20:11] <balloons> and inside unity change 'dash blur' to 'no blur'
[20:11] <balloons> you can test now
[20:11] <knome> balloons, i think the natural next step would be to get the closing paragraph out of the test cases
[20:12] <knome> testcases too
[20:12] <balloons> knome, that would be amazing to do
[20:12] <samgabbay> OMG
[20:12] <samgabbay> DUDE
[20:12] <samgabbay> I
[20:12] <samgabbay> FUCKIGN
[20:12] <samgabbay> LOVE YOU
[20:12] <samgabbay> no homo
[20:12] <knome> samgabbay, please watch your language and consider that some comments might be offensive
[20:12] <samgabbay> sorrry :/
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> knome, ++
[20:12] <samgabbay> noww how can i make my games faster without laggg
[20:13] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, just so you know. everything is logged until we have a nuclear winter. so don't start swearing
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> samgabbay, and get a good internet connection would be helpful as well
[20:13] <samgabbay> on wine form the open source driver that came preinstalled
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> Noskcaj, nuclear winter?
[20:13] <samgabbay> i have a 5mbps connection with fiber and ok nosk
[20:13] <balloons> samgabbay, I'm glad it worked, but please remember to keep the code of conduct in mind
[20:13] <samgabbay> im sorry
[20:14] <samgabbay> im just too happy
[20:14] <balloons> lol, I know, no worries
[20:14] <Noskcaj> SergioMeneses, well, until those servers get destroyed
[20:14] <balloons> that's all the tricks I've got for today though mate
[20:14] <knome> samgabbay, sent you some reading :)
[20:14] <SergioMeneses> Noskcaj, o0
[20:14] <balloons> ty knome
[20:14] <samgabbay> huh?
[20:14] <samgabbay> guys
[20:14] <samgabbay> please i know im not suppose to swear jsut forget it
[20:15] <Noskcaj> balloons, i've nearly finished the testdrive page, just need the screenshots
[20:15] <samgabbay> balloons,  now how can i make my graphics faster with the drivers that came with ubuntu
[20:15] <balloons> samgabbay, we just did some tweaks to fix things. you should be good..
[20:15]  * knome goes looking at the iso-tracker sources
[20:16] <balloons> don't mess with ccsm :-)
[20:16] <samgabbay> for any games too?
[20:16] <samgabbay> on wine?
[20:16] <balloons> samgabbay, that's a different can of worms. can't help you there
[20:16] <samgabbay> i have another issue sometimes when i call people on skype the sound is kinda weired and kkkkkkkkkk
[20:16] <balloons> if your really hardcore you wouldn't run compiz perhaps while doing
[20:16] <balloons> but we're digressing here..
[20:16] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, OVERCLOCK
[20:16] <samgabbay> what
[20:16] <samgabbay> 0.0
[20:17] <Noskcaj> makes GPU faster
[20:17] <samgabbay> im not hardcore
[20:17] <Noskcaj> :(
[20:17] <samgabbay> but isint that gonna break my p
[20:17] <samgabbay> pc
[20:17] <samgabbay> truthfully
[20:17] <samgabbay> im trying to get rid of windows
[20:17] <Noskcaj> i build i giant bucket of water to cooler my PC, and no
[20:17] <samgabbay> QUICKLY
[20:17] <balloons> samgabbay, http://askubuntu.com/questions/157891/skype-and-vlc-sounds-sizzle-distorted-bad
[20:17] <samgabbay> but i want everything to be stable
[20:17] <balloons> samgabbay, so let me know if you need any help writing the tests
[20:18] <balloons> Noskcaj, awesome to hear on the testdrive page;-)
[20:18] <DanChapman> balloons i did that change and forgot to push. Have done it now :-)
[20:18] <balloons> knome, yea if you figured out a slick way to add header / footer text to testcases that would be awesome
[20:18] <samgabbay> ballons should i run tests on my vbox ???????????
[20:19] <balloons> DanChapman, cool.. So to recap everything on autopilot, we're pretty much set on the initial apps right?
[20:19] <knome> balloons, would the header be static/same for all tests?
[20:19] <balloons> screenshot is being worked by Letozaf_ and will be done *soon*. shotwell has a pending bug and I'm merging totem
[20:19] <Noskcaj> lol netsplit
[20:19] <knome> Noskcaj, ##defocus?
[20:19] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah i believe so.... just gonna check etherpad
[20:19] <balloons> knome, I mentioned header since heh, if you can do a footer, why not get both out of the way :-) I've no idea what I would put in there persay
[20:20] <knome> heh
[20:20] <balloons> the footer is ALMOST always the same, but can be different
[20:20] <balloons> there's 2 variations
[20:20] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat
[20:20] <DanChapman> balloons just shotwell left
[20:20] <knome> balloons, another thing we might want to look at is allowing headers in the testcase text to make different tests (eg. abiword-001) stand up
[20:20] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, solved the saving .png in Pictures folder, not sure it's the best way, but put a sleep(3) after saving, now it's working :p
[20:21] <knome> balloons, i was hoping we could integrate those two
[20:21] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh.. yea, if at all possible we avoid sleeps.. but there are a few because we had no other choice on the tests
[20:22] <balloons> knome, that is certainly worthwhile to do if you can sprinkle some knome magic to allow us to control all of them at once with a std
[20:22] <knome> balloons, otherwise somebody needs to do more than a trivial edit on the code, since you will need to be able to select which one you want
[20:22] <samgabbay> balloons i cant change the default file because i dont have permissions
[20:22] <samgabbay> im on an admin account
[20:23] <balloons> knome, yea it just gets annoying to have both if your displaying them
[20:23] <knome> balloons, re: the test, i was thinking about "If all actions produce the expected results listed or you can answer "yes" to all questions, please submit a 'passed' result."
[20:23] <balloons> you need a way to select which one you want.. every test has to select the proper one, etc ,etc
[20:23] <knome> *text
[20:23] <DanChapman> oooo its probably tearing down before its had a chance to save. If you can get the file size assertThat using Eventually(NotEqual()) you will probably lose that sleep anyway
[20:24] <balloons> knome, yea.. just make a compound sentence and we're done lol
[20:24] <knome> balloons, because i imagine it's not too uncommon for normal testcases to have some smoke-testcaseish questions
[20:24] <samgabbay> balloons i cant change the default file because i dont have permissions
[20:24] <balloons> samgabbay, editing files outside of home requires root privileges.. use sudo
[20:24] <knome> balloons, and: "If an action fails, or produces an unexpected result, or you have to answer "no" to any question, please submit a 'failed' result and file a bug. Please be sure to include the bug number when you submit your result."
[20:24] <samgabbay> sudo.?
[20:24] <DanChapman> at least its saving now Letozaf_ :-)
[20:25] <knome> balloons, we can even make the different possibilities a list
[20:25] <knome> balloons, i'll do a really quick mockup
[20:25] <knome> (i have another idea regarding this as well, will show that off as well)
[20:25] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, yes :p
[20:26] <balloons> samgabbay, oogle is your friend.. sounds like you could use a read through a beginners guide
[20:26] <samgabbay> guys btw can i sync my ipod touch ios 6 ipod 5 with ubuntu?
[20:27] <balloons> samgabbay, probably best to check out the #ubuntu channel for more support
[20:27] <DanChapman> Letozaf_ I dont see how you can lose the sleep actually. Because the os.stat(home_dir + fileName) is going to throw an error no such directory. I can't see anything you can latch on to to hang for that period while its saving
[20:27] <samgabbay> will do
[20:27] <balloons> they should be able to answer all those sorts of lovely questions or point you in the right direction
[20:28] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, I suppose we will have to leave sleep then, I do not know what to use either
[20:28] <samgabbay> all good balloon
[20:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, DanChapman got a paste or branch to look at for this?
[20:29] <balloons> I'll see if I can see a way to drop it. however if we can't, well, we can't :-)
[20:29] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will paste the whole test, just a second
[20:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, is it in your branch?
[20:30] <balloons> that makes it even easier.. for me at least :-)
[20:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5733868
[20:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, line 66
[20:31] <samgabbay> ballons how do i restart pulse
[20:31] <balloons> ok, so there are several sleeps in here
[20:31] <Letozaf_> balloons, :p
[20:31] <balloons> can you remove the others?
[20:31] <Letozaf_> balloons, let me see what I can do
[20:31] <balloons> that's the actual save..
[20:32] <DanChapman> balloons, its once you have clicked the save screenshot button. There are no more windows, the app is technically closed. Thats the only sleep i cant see it losing, to bridge the gap to it being available on the file sys to check its size
[20:32] <balloons> well, let me look. Another nice to have for me would be to know what window has been focused
[20:32] <balloons> DanChapman, right, so waiting for the file can be done without sleep I should think
[20:33] <samgabbay> someone tell me how to reboot pulse
[20:33] <balloons> that's a thomi question so I'll bug him and ask. Thomi how can I get what the active and focused window is? and presumably then how can I wait for a window to become active?
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, if I remove the sleep near the pointing_device_click I get an error
[20:34] <balloons> samgabbay, really, do check #ubuntu. Not a support channel mate. Ask ubuntu searching helps too: http://askubuntu.com/questions/230888/is-there-another-way-to-restart-ubuntu-12-04s-sound-system-if-pulseaudio-alsa-d
[20:34] <samgabbay> thx
[20:35] <balloons> ok so let me try my idea for removing the sleep after the window has closed..
[20:36] <DanChapman> oh i see where your going balloons, find another app to focus on.
[20:37] <balloons> DanChapman, I'm hoping thomi tells me a nice autopilot way of doing it.. but yea otherwise I can ask X for a list of open windows and wait for what I want to appear / disappear. On the file side, I can make a loop waiting for the file to exist.. Check existence, sleep for a half second, do it again. Timeout after 10 seconds
[20:37] <DanChapman> You could call self.launch_test_application() again and open the first screen again there would be no need to close it
[20:38] <thomi> what's this?
[20:39]  * balloons waves
[20:40] <balloons> thomi, although I think we can work around it easily enough, I was just wondering if there was a way to ask autopilot what is 'in focus' at the moment
[20:40] <samgabbay> brb guys reboot
[20:40] <thomi> balloons: keyboard focus?
[20:41] <balloons> thomi, that would be harder for you i'd guess.. Just the window that is focused
[20:41] <thomi> balloons: it should be in the display emulator. if it's not, please file a bg
[20:41] <thomi> *bug
[20:41] <balloons> I remember there is a way to list open windows by an application..
[20:42] <thomi> balloons: I just added you to the autopilot planning meeting on Friday,. so you can get your issues fixed in the next autopilot cycle
[20:42] <balloons> thomi, I don't see http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/display.html?
[20:42] <samgabbay> haii
[20:43] <balloons> thomi, that works, thank you. I'll try and summarize with examples for that day
[20:43] <thomi> balloons: yeah, it seems it's missing. Hopefully we can get veebers to look into that, since he wrote the original
[20:44] <Noskcaj> balloons, would you mind merging https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug-/+merge/167398
[20:44] <balloons> thomi, ok, so a bug.. in general I think this is lumped with the window state bug I opened
[20:44] <balloons> we need more display and state info :-) some was dropped it seems
[20:44] <balloons> Noskcaj, of course
[20:44] <thomi> balloons: yeah, but generic bugs tend to get ignored. TBH it's better to file more specific bugs, and file more of them
[20:44] <samgabbay> balloons, everything looks good soo far for the speed im impressed man but can you make me a favor and the thing with comp just write down the settings  you told me to change step by step on a paste PLEASE :)
[20:45] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok, so I think we can drop all sleeps on this test :-)
[20:45] <balloons> can you group the common parts of the test into a function (saving the screenshot) and using that instead
[20:46] <balloons> it's duplicated several times. With that cleanup and the sleeps gone, this should be ready
[20:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, but if I drop the sleeps I get errors :P
[20:47] <knome> balloons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/
[20:47] <knome> balloons, note that the *whole box* is clickable.
[20:47] <knome> balloons, with some simple js/jquery, we can make the selected box highlighted
[20:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will group the common parts in a function
[20:48] <balloons> knome, such simple beauty,, your really going to just make this easier for people :-)
[20:48] <knome> balloons, (failed with red highlights, passed green, in progress yellow eg.)
[20:48] <samgabbay> balloons, everything looks good soo far for the speed im impressed man but can you make me a favor and the thing with comp just write down the settings  you told me to change step by step on a paste PLEASE :)
[20:48] <knome> balloons, i'll go ahead and add some PoC effects next
[20:49] <balloons> Letozaf_, yes just group it for now.. and I'll paste something to help drop the sleeps :-)
[20:50] <samgabbay> please man
[20:51] <DanChapman> samgabbay its in the irclog for the room just scroll up
[20:51] <samgabbay> cant find it :(
[20:52] <Noskcaj> my PC is to slow to run the ubuntu live session, can someone please get me the screenshots for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive
[20:52] <samgabbay> i need someone to write it down on a paste for me
[20:53] <samgabbay> please guys
[20:53] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, it's probably here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/04/%23ubuntu-quality.html
[20:54] <DanChapman> Noskcaj, beat me to it ;-)
[20:54] <balloons> Noskcaj, if you can specify what you need I'm sure folks can help you out :-)
[20:54] <DanChapman> im calling it a day folks. Catch you all tomorrow if your around
[20:54] <samgabbay> lemme check
[20:55] <samgabbay> Ballons i need you to write on a paste exactly what we did before to speeed up unity and stuff so i can keep note of it
[20:55] <Noskcaj> balloons, i have on the page. I need all the stuff on the old page, plus a screenshot of each panel in the "preferences" dialogue
[20:56] <DanChapman> samgabbay, you have been given the link to the log for where it was discussed. You can find what you are looking for in there mate
[20:56] <samgabbay> ik im  lookiong
[20:57] <balloons> DanChapman, Letozaf_ so the trick to avoiding sleeps in here is using lambda with eventually :-)
[20:57] <samgabbay> its not there yet
[20:58] <samgabbay> ?
[21:02] <DanChapman> balloons, will take a look at that tomorrow see if i can lose any of the sleeps in the tests i did. Catch up wit you tomorrow mate
[21:02] <balloons> so Letozaf_ for example this worked instead of waiting via sleep for file
[21:02] <balloons> self.assertThat(lambda: os.path.isfile(home_dir + fileName+'.png'), Eventually(NotEquals(0)))
[21:03] <DanChapman> oooo nice!
[21:03] <balloons> does that make sense?
[21:03] <samgabbay> should i test on vbox or on my original build?
[21:03] <balloons> yea, pretty slick.. that's a thomi taught trick I think :-)
[21:03] <balloons> samgabbay, you can test on whichever
[21:03] <samgabbay> alrightyyyy lemme get started while my game is installign
[21:03] <balloons> DanChapman, pleasant evening to you
[21:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok, I will use it, do you mind if I finish this test tomorrow ? I will polish it and then submit it for merging
[21:04] <balloons> Letozaf_, no no worries at all
[21:04] <thomi> balloons: probably that should be ...NotEquals(False)
[21:04] <balloons> the other sleep I dropped by doing this
[21:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, fine thanks for your help
[21:04] <balloons> thomi, nice catch :-)
[21:04] <balloons> or..
[21:04] <balloons> eventually equals true actually
[21:04] <balloons> lol.. you can tell I was editing the code as it was
[21:04] <thomi> right
[21:04] <thomi> :)
[21:05] <samgabbay> does the ubuntu pastebin keeps pastes forever?
[21:05] <thomi> also sometimes I create the function object in a separate line, since it makes it a bit more readable.. sometimes
[21:05] <balloons> thomi, I'm curious why this one didn't work though
[21:05] <thomi> like: check_fn = lambda: os.path.isfile(...) \n self.assertThat(check_fn, Eventually(Equals(True)))
[21:06] <samgabbay> balloons does the ubuntu pastebin keeps pastes forevr?
[21:06] <thomi> samgabbay: no, it doesn't
[21:07] <balloons> so converting this: self.saveWindow = self.app.select_single('GtkDialog') \n self.assertThat(self.saveWindow.title, Eventually(Contains('Save Screenshot'))) you need to get at that title property
[21:07] <thomi> samgabbay: but it does keep them for a while
[21:07] <thomi> balloons: which part does not work?
[21:08] <samgabbay> kkkk
[21:09] <balloons> thomi, so it doesn't like me accessing the .title property.. hmm, something pythonic I'm guessing I could do  check_fn = lambda: self.app.select_single('GtkDialog').title \n   self.assertThat(check_fn, Eventually(Contains('Save Screenshot')))
[21:10] <knome> balloons, recheck http://temp.knome.fi/qa/
[21:10] <thomi> balloons: no, that won't make any difference
[21:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, night I will get back tomorrow
[21:10] <balloons> Letozaf_, good night!
[21:10] <thomi> balloons: it sounds like the title property isn't there?
[21:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, night
[21:10] <balloons> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'title'
[21:10] <thomi> balloons: yeah, you can't do that :)
[21:10] <balloons> ohh.. right, because until it exists it doesn't have the property
[21:11] <balloons> anyways the point is I need a slick way to do it :-)
[21:11] <thomi> balloons: what's the error you get? An AttributeError?
[21:11] <balloons> yes, see above
[21:11] <balloons> knome, colors!
[21:11] <balloons> I love it
[21:11] <thomi> balloons: how about this:
[21:12] <thomi> check_fn = self.select_single('GtkDialog', title='Save Screenshot')
[21:12] <thomi> self.assertThat(check_fn, Eventually(NotEquals(None)))
[21:12] <thomi> dialog = check_fn()
[21:12] <balloons> d'oh!
[21:13] <balloons> ty thomi, that's very nice
[21:13] <thomi> although that checks for equality, not the Contains() you were originally using
[21:13] <balloons> yes, have to be a little more precise
[21:13] <thomi> yeah, you can pass as many filters to select_single and select_many as you like
[21:13] <thomi> but... they all need to be equality filters, so... :-/
[21:13] <knome> balloons, ctrl+shift+R that page, i think we should have it pop up like that (if we want to have a preselected result anyway? and what about the "in progress" one, is it used much?)
[21:13] <thomi> very useful if you can match against object names though :)
[21:14] <balloons> ohh.. feature request for *like* filter? how about pure regex?
[21:14]  * balloons dreams
[21:14] <balloons> knome, atm no the in-progress one isn't used all that much
[21:15] <balloons> having a really quick site that didn't refresh and could use states would make it more useful
[21:15] <knome> we use that rarely on xubuntu testing when we have loads of testers, calls for testing and a tight schedule
[21:15] <balloons> exactly.. but unless you refresh the page, you collide anyway ( i have when it's just been two of us, heh)
[21:15] <balloons> almost have to stake a claim before you start on everything you will do
[21:15] <knome> lol
[21:16]  * knome thinks what would be the perfect way to handle states
[21:17] <knome> loading the page can't do it, because that isn't always a true correlation
[21:17] <knome> making people click the result button or asking them with a popup would be annoying
[21:18] <knome> (and if it was a popup, it might be hard to "change your mind")
[21:18] <knome> it should be as automatic as possible, but that's really hard to check
[21:19] <knome> when people type anything in the input fields?
[21:19] <knome> i would imagine that's pretty much always a true correlation
[21:19] <balloons> hmm
[21:20] <balloons> if your hanging out on the page, yea when I added or updated my result (while entering) it would be nice to see the lastest data
[21:20] <knome> that too
[21:20] <knome> but technically that's less problematic anyway
[21:22] <knome> i think simply knowing how much people are running the tests would be more useful though
[21:23] <knome> (live and automated)
[21:25] <balloons> knome, what do you mean?
[21:26] <Noskcaj> why does http://paste.ubuntu.com/5734015/ come out as one line on the wiki?
[21:26] <balloons> thomi, is there a list of special keys for press and release.. ie, in this case I need to know about page down
[21:26] <knome> balloons, that the "running" column in eg. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/45704/testcases would be updated "live"
[21:26] <balloons> Noskcaj, that's how the syntax works..
[21:26] <samgabbay> well guys il be going for a while and il test ina bit im just trying to mess around with wine
[21:26] <balloons> ahh.. yes
[21:27] <balloons> knome, ahh yes.. exactly
[21:27] <samgabbay> see yaaaa
[21:27] <Noskcaj> balloons, how can i not have that syntax happen?
[21:28] <knome> and automated... eg. people won't need to do any extra thing for that column to update
[21:28] <balloons> Noskcaj, looking at your merge request now..
[21:28] <balloons> ohh.. yea, get rid of the status saying your running it :-)
[21:29] <balloons> just have knome be all-knowing and do it for you
[21:29] <knome> Noskcaj, add <<BR>> at the end of the line
[21:29] <knome> balloons, another option would be a simple checkbox at the *top* of the testcase page
[21:30] <knome> balloons, that could be dumped on form sumbit, but it could be a simple "[ ] i'm running  [ ] i'm not running" choice
[21:30] <knome> (defaulting to not, but made easy to pick "i'm running")
[21:31] <balloons> knome yes.. let me pick your brain
[21:31] <knome> with js we could handle that choice so that users wouldn't need to reload the page, just have js enabled
[21:32] <balloons> yes.. could you have it load the testcase when you say "i'm running" and otherwise hide it?
[21:32] <balloons> that was the goal with the collapse we have now
[21:32] <knome> (if they didn't have js, we could just show them a button that would do pretty much the same thing as the "in progress" -result now)
[21:32] <knome> i'm not sure if that's optimal
[21:32] <knome> people might want to look at the test before deciding to run
[21:33] <knome> but sure, we could instantly also show the testcase
[21:33] <knome> (and it's easy to achieve as well
[21:33] <knome> )
[21:35] <balloons> right.. I'm thinking about fixing that workflow
[21:35] <balloons> by default people asked to not have the testcase flooding the screen.. by the same token people should be able to see it easily and/or run it easily
[21:35] <knome> i agree.
[21:35] <balloons> heck the submit form could be grouped in that
[21:35] <knome> from my POV, the "ultimate" solution would be two columns for that
[21:35] <balloons> if your not running it, no form
[21:36] <knome> the submit form could be under navigation.
[21:36] <balloons> you have excellent judgement knome, I would be happy to have you go over and clean up how that works :-)
[21:36] <knome> bugs to look for above the testcase
[21:36] <balloons> exactly.. there's a lot of little UI tweaks someone like yourself could do
[21:36] <knome> i've promised myself i won't touch drupal, but i could see around a bit.
[21:36] <knome> ;)
[21:37] <knome> maybe i could work with stgraber some day on it, and send him the code he needs and he could integrate the stuff in
[21:40] <balloons> that would be awesome.. I understand the aversion for drupal, but there's definitely some cool things you could do
[21:40] <knome> definitely
[21:41] <balloons> and it would be appreciated by those who want to use the site
[22:03] <Noskcaj> there. The testdrive wiki page is finished
[22:13] <knome> balloons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/poc-sidebar-submit.png
[22:14] <balloons> knome, ohh nice
[22:14] <balloons> sidebar is kind of slick
[22:14] <knome> :)
[22:14] <knome> i don't think we need massive textboxes, do we?
[22:15] <balloons> for bugs? sometimes you'll have 2 or 3
[22:15] <knome> for "comment" mostly
[22:15] <knome> the rest of the boxes were already smallish
[22:15] <knome> (or, already 1-line :P)
[22:18] <knome> this is off the track already, but it would be nice if there was some kind of method to insert your hardware profiles to the tracker (or to LP centralized) and be able to select that from a dropdown box
[22:18] <knome> (if you only had one, that would be selected automatically)
[22:18] <knome> manual testing is already repetitive and sometimes frustrating, i'd like to drop off as many of these "small" problems as we can
[22:21] <knome> balloons, that's how that could look: http://temp.knome.fi/qa/poc-sidebar-submit-2.png
[22:22] <balloons> knome, yes the dropdown is/was planned
[22:22] <balloons> the trouble is we don't have a good place to store them :-(
[22:23] <knome> just throw them into the iso tracker
[22:23] <balloons> what we have is in flux
[22:23] <balloons> historically it was in ubuntu friendly.. we've been trying to get it into HEXR, but need an instance to do so, etc.
[22:24] <balloons> the interim solution has been to effectively do nothing
[22:24] <knome> it isn't *too* much work to set up a simple, stupid storing mechanism
[22:24] <balloons> yes, but what are we storing? and can we ensure it will be useful?
[22:24] <knome> can we ensure urls/things people are putting in the input field now is useful?
[22:24] <balloons> lol, no
[22:24] <knome> i mean,
[22:25] <knome> the benefit of the hardware profiles even when stored temporarily would be that they would be editable
[22:25] <knome> create a simple form with n input fields
[22:25] <knome> if you run into a hw profile that isn't useful, ask people to update
[22:26] <knome> and since you can link to them with ID's, every testcase would have the updated information
[22:26] <knome> (every testcase ran with that profile)
[22:26] <balloons> right. I would rather see the online hardware database come online, and we would simply allow you to link out to it
[22:26] <knome> linking to that should be semi-automatical
[22:27] <balloons> knome, indeed.. it would use your lp id and generate a list for you
[22:27] <balloons> could even default to something
[22:27] <knome> and the question is who has the copyright for that database
[22:27] <knome> if it's canonical, some people might have problems with that policy
[22:28] <balloons> the site / db? It would be community, but sure it would run on canonical servers
[22:28] <knome> ran by canonical - not a problem
[22:28] <balloons> i imagine anything you push there would have to have an agreement over usage
[22:29] <knome> copyright to the hardware database owned by canonical - problem
[22:29] <knome> sure.
[22:29] <balloons> it's existence would be for us though
[22:29] <knome> but what would the agreement be?
[22:29] <balloons> we've not talked about it too much
[22:29] <knome> "you give canonical all rights to use this information any way they can?"
[22:29] <knome> s/can/wish/
[22:29] <knome> also, the db should be exportable
[22:30] <balloons> I think it would be you give all rights to anyone to use, aka public domain.. you are publishing it
[22:30] <balloons> how does UF work now?
[22:30] <knome> i've talked about this with a lecturer in the local uni, and he thinks it's an awesome idea as long as others have access to it
[22:30] <knome> i don't know, i haven't looked at it
[22:32] <knome> UF says it's community ran, but doesn't list any specific policies/copyright mentions, and isn't exportable
[22:32] <knome> eg. you can't download the whole database
[22:32] <balloons> knome, indeed
[22:33] <balloons> I don't think people ask good questions like this
[22:35] <knome> balloons, who is in charge of UF then?
[22:35] <balloons> it doesn't make sense unless the data is open
[22:35] <balloons> and the data can't be open unless the submitter agrees to make it so
[22:35] <knome> exactly
[22:36] <knome> sure
[22:36] <knome> but the question is if the data is open to *everybody* or "the ones running the database", which in many peoples' minds translate to canonical
[22:36] <knome> (even if that isn't/wasn't the case)
[22:37] <balloons> sure sure.. for instance, can I get a copy of the ubuntu wiki backup? :-)
[22:37] <balloons> there is at least a proper license thought out: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/License
[22:38] <knome> i would imagine there are bots that can suck the life out of moinmoin, and that license pretty much says "go ahead"
[22:38] <balloons> like I said people really don't think about things like that I don't think. Most people / services don't allow such things. Malicious, intended, laziness or otherwise
[22:39] <balloons> knome, they certainly could
[22:39] <balloons> it's not quite the same though :-)
[22:39] <knome> no, it's not
[22:40] <knome> UF seems quite dead.
[22:42] <balloons> heh, let's not beat too much on it shall we?
[22:43] <knome> i'm just trying to cheer them up
[22:43] <knome> ;)
[22:45] <balloons> :-_)
[22:46] <knome> i wonder if there is really a need for a ubuntu-specific database
[22:46] <knome> why not try to collaborate with existing databases like linux-laptop.net
[22:47] <balloons> my goal isn't/wasn't to make a db, or to solve world hunger or catalog working/non-working stuff
[22:48] <balloons> it was simply to record your unique system hardware details and let you link that to test results
[22:48] <knome> wait.. what? aren't we here to solve the world hunger problem?
[22:48] <balloons> not with this testing db ;-)
[22:48] <knome> i'm out!
[22:48] <knome> ;)
[22:48] <balloons> lolololol
[22:48] <knome> if it's just to be able to link, then why not integrate something to the testing tracker quickly
[22:49] <balloons> hence your idea has merit
[22:49] <knome> or if we want to be really lazy, why not just drop the hw box and tell people to add their hw info on the comment
[22:50] <knome> that's what many do already because they don't have a hw profile url.
[22:52] <balloons> indeed
[22:52] <balloons> it's really a question of if we want to incorporate and link all the test results
[22:53] <balloons> we don't really have a aggregation of your test results and systems
[22:53] <balloons> nothing we make is designed around you
[22:53] <knome> should you/we?
[22:53] <thomi> balloons: no, but there should be :-/
[22:54] <thomi> balloons: maybe file a bug?
[22:54] <knome> thomi, i would say a bug is a first step to possibly getting that fixed.
[22:54] <thomi> knome: agreed. Feel free to file it
[22:55] <thomi> we're planning work items for the next month on Friday, so now's the perfect time :)
[22:56] <knome> that's not my main concern anyway
[22:56] <knome> i'll see if i have time/motivation to file that bug
[22:59] <balloons> knome, thomi should we solve world hunger? ;-p Or provide a better way to make your testing contributions about you
[22:59]  * balloons is confused what bug we're filing here
[23:00] <thomi> I didn't promise to fix all bugs filed in the next cycle, just that we'll look at them
[23:00]  * knome soon reports a bug in the knome household with the title "we're out of rum" :P
[23:01] <balloons> lolol, ok consider me officially lost
[23:01] <knome> i'll be in touch with stephane later
[23:01] <knome> re: the layout changes and some fixes
[23:02] <knome> i won't promise anything else
[23:02] <knome> that's where i'm standing :)
[23:02] <balloons> knome, sounds like a plan. Ohh, one more thing since your playing with the layout
[23:02] <balloons> help.. where do you stand on having 'help' on your pages?
[23:03] <balloons> many designers like to eschew it as much as possible, calling a need for a manual poor design. At any rate, there is some docs and video I've created to "help" you
[23:03] <knome> what "help" ?
[23:03] <knome> hmm
[23:03] <balloons> people pointed out using the site is difficult, and when I point them to the docs they say thanks and can use it
[23:03] <balloons> but many never see or find them
[23:03] <knome> what if you integrated that to the top bar when logged in?
[23:04] <knome> "Need help using the site?"
[23:05] <balloons> Well I'm divided on including it also..
[23:05] <knome> just throw it there on the navigation
[23:05] <knome> *or
[23:05] <balloons> but I would like to make what's out there more readily available. Mostly I would prefer the site to be self-documented and well designed so it's not needed
[23:05] <knome> definitely.
[23:06] <knome> i shall consider those issues as well when i poke stephane
[23:06] <balloons> so perhaps part of the clean up could be to improve that.. Still, the walkthroughs will always exist I'm sure
[23:06] <balloons> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker is the "help" more or less
[23:07] <balloons> so yea, having that link somewhere would be good and be enough
[23:07] <knome> "You are currently on: Ubuntu ISO Testing"
[23:07] <balloons> btw, you changing things breaks all my docs :-)
[23:07] <knome> is that really necessary?
[23:08] <balloons> knome, where do you see that?
[23:08] <knome> any page.
[23:08] <knome> below the title
[23:08] <balloons> ohh lol
[23:08] <balloons> I don't even see that
[23:08] <knome> that seems somewhat superfluous
[23:08] <balloons> see: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/
[23:08] <balloons> etc..
[23:09] <knome> i know.
[23:09] <balloons> probably not needed
[23:09] <knome> but should it seriously be told in every page?
[23:09] <knome> packages. also says
[23:09] <knome> Welcome to the package tracker!
[23:09] <balloons> that's the notice board, we have control over that
[23:09] <knome> sure.
[23:09] <balloons> it's intended to be on every page
[23:09] <balloons> which is, mostly ok
[23:09] <balloons> right now it has no meaning :-)
[23:10] <knome> i'd just add the page "title" (eg "Package QA tracker") next to the ubuntu logo in the header
[23:10] <knome> and get rid of the message on every page
[23:10] <balloons> random text and link cleanup is all appreciated ;-)
[23:10] <balloons> the less busy the page the better
[23:10] <balloons> people just get lost and confused
[23:11] <balloons> I can't even see that stuff anymore as it's all pre-filtered in my brain
[23:11] <knome> exactly
[23:11] <balloons> hence, I can't even "see" all that stuff that needs to go.. but you can :-)
[23:11] <balloons> fresh eyes are excellent
[23:12] <knome> could things like "link to bug reporting information" go into the navigation under a "Help" section along with other help topics?
[23:16] <Noskcaj> balloons: i'll start working on updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases/FixingProblems Where should i put it? i was going to use it as a "troubleshooting" page
[23:16] <balloons> knome, people also get confused when they see broken things on the site
[23:16] <knome> balloons, like?
[23:16] <balloons> also if they find an issue with a testcase, a way to "notify" (aka file a bug) to fix it would be good
[23:17] <balloons> knome, I mean, they don't know how to let someone know it's broken
[23:17] <balloons> and the link at the bottom is a little hidden, but it refers to the site, not the testcase
[23:17] <balloons> Noskcaj, where's the testdrive page at again?
[23:18] <Noskcaj> balloons: wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive
[23:18] <knome> balloons, that link could go under "help & support" on the navigation as well
[23:19] <balloons> website issue is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+filebug
[23:19] <balloons> testcase issue is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
[23:20] <balloons> Noskcaj, ahh.. ok, so the development release other stuff
[23:20] <balloons> let's pick a place
[23:20] <knome> balloons, well you can have a tracker page that describes the difference.
[23:21] <balloons> knome, indeed
[23:21] <balloons> just giving you links :-)
[23:21] <balloons> I would not be opposed to a simple page like that
[23:21] <Noskcaj> one other thing. bug 1096446
[23:22] <balloons> Noskcaj, i'm still a little confused by that, but I think your wanting a way to track images across time and see what the test results where
[23:22] <Noskcaj> yep
[23:22] <balloons> the page to do that isn't so friendly as it loads everything for everyone
[23:23] <knome> i imagine the correct title would be "Track rebuilds since the last time a testcase was ran"
[23:23] <Noskcaj> i'm wanting a timer that resets every time the testcase is run. that way we know if we've missed something
[23:23] <balloons> yes the wording is really confusing
[23:24] <knome> Noskcaj, would you say my wording is correct?
[23:24] <balloons> however, I think that's better put here: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/
[23:24] <Noskcaj> knome: pretty much
[23:25] <knome> balloons, that doesn't track flavors separately
[23:25] <balloons> knome, in the sidebar, there's a link for each testcase to "bugs".. probably should include something to help people file bugs
[23:25] <balloons> also the critical vs non-critical bugs and explaination could be sort much better
[23:26] <knome> yes.
[23:26] <balloons> knome, at the moment it doesn't, there's no data.. but it could
[23:26] <balloons> you like django?
[23:27] <knome> i don't speak python
[23:28] <balloons> I remember you saying that :-)
[23:28] <balloons> but yea, seriously it could..
[23:28] <balloons> anyways
[23:28] <knome> :D
[23:44] <Noskcaj> did i miss anything while my friends hide my PC?
[23:51] <balloons> Noskcaj, lol
[23:51] <knome> well done friends