 Something like this might be something god for Ubuntu Africa to aspire to like I mentioned a few weeks ago
[16:48] <philipballew> Ubuntu en Latinoamérica conferencia live feed...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4WYoMn8Q7Q
[16:48] <philipballew> its in spanish, so ignore that, but see how it can be not to complex to set up something like that with the right help and people
[16:48] <Kilos> i cant watch live feeds with our 3g. much too expensive
[16:48] <philipballew> Kilos, ah, that sucks, I'll show you some pictures later.
[16:49] <Kilos> lol
[16:49] <Kilos> whats news from the facebook page?
[16:50] <Kilos> ive cut down everything that eats data or im not going to make the month
[16:50] <philipballew> Kilos, nothing yet, so I was going to start doing two things, posting cool articles and stories, as well as trying to post good conversation starter topics
[16:50] <philipballew> Kilos, how much data are you capped at each month?
[16:50] <Kilos> im relying on you guys to keep things going for a wqhile
[16:51] <philipballew> Kilos, It will be done, and the more African help I have the better.
[16:51] <philipballew> Because I need someone who understand the culture from all the regions and such
[16:51] <Kilos> i have 1.6 gig left from 3 gig and its only the 10th
[16:51] <philipballew> but I will do all I can
[16:51] <Kilos> ty
[16:52] <Kilos> maybe send a mail to the list and ask the guys to help out
[16:53] <Kilos> then it goes to many more than ever appear here
[16:59] <philipballew> Kilos, yeah, The key for that is we need to use the page as a way to get people to dialogue on there.
[17:00] <Kilos> speak to Cryterion_ as well, he made the page right?
[17:00] <philipballew> post pictures of their events, as well as ask questions for their systems, as well as post cool articles they read about
[17:00]  * Cryterion_ sees his name
[17:00] <philipballew> Kilos, yeah. I think there should be a way to automate schedule posts as well.
[17:01] <Kilos> well you guys did the hard work there
[17:01] <philipballew> so I can post links to things, but they will go out during the day for you
[17:01] <Kilos> cool
[17:02] <Kilos> i gotta go eat
[17:02] <Kilos> wbb
[17:03] <philipballew> Kilos, nice!
[17:27] <Kilos> hi craigbrash
[18:01] <Kilos> wb philipballew
[18:28] <philipballew> Kilos, hey


[01:00] <henry1> Where can I get a binary Linaro toolchain so that I can put it anywhere I want?
[01:06] <GrueMaster> Check on #linaro.  Someone there would know.
[01:12] <GrueMaster> Grrr.  A1 is a fail at this point.  Kernel oops on second boot, shortly after mounting rootfs.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/538505/
[01:12] <GrueMaster> ogra: rsalveti:  ^^^
[07:54] <hrw> morning
[12:16] <sveinse> Hi guys. This is perhaps OT here, but I tried to cross compile Qt using the g++-arm-linux-gnueabi compiler from Maverick. The compilation failed, while the CodeSourcery gcc don't. The failure is "selected processor does not support Thumb mode `swp r4,r3,[r2]'". The compile options are set to "-march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=neon". I notice the CSL gcc is 4.4.1, while...
[12:17] <sveinse> ...the Ubuntu gcc is 4.5.1.  Does this ring any bells to anyone?
[12:21] <rsalveti> hrw: ^
[12:22] <hrw> sveinse: can you report bug against gcc-4.5 and give me number?
[12:24] <sveinse> hrw: In whos bug system? Gcc or ubutu?
[12:24] <hrw> ubuntu
[12:25] <sveinse> hrw: I could try recompiling using the 4.4 version to see if its related to some difference between the CSL and Ubuntu or if its related to 4.4. vs 4.5
[12:27] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: regarding the custom netbook-launcher-efl session
[12:28] <tmzt_g2root> yes
[12:28] <tmzt_g2root> rsalveti: maybe #linaro ?
[12:29] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: I found descriptions on how to build a custom session in some ubuntu wiki. I was searching for how to customize the gnome panel as it is locked
[12:29] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: the problems I see with netbook on small screen touchscreen devices are only few
[12:29] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: the instructions didn't work for me, the gconf stuff didn't change anything
[12:30] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, it's pretty nice. installing packagekit fixed software-center
[12:30] <tmzt_g2root> it's a bit off the screen but mostly usable
[12:30] <ogra_ac_> tmzt_g2root, hrw is in both channels luckily (#linaro and here) ;)
[12:31] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: 1) off-screen areas in some programs (related to maximus) 2) small buttons, scroll bars, etc => problems navigating
[12:31] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: let's work on here https://github.com/tmzt/native-netbook we should be able to share everything between hd2 and androix on wvga ws
[12:32] <ogra_ac_> dcordes, to change the locked gnome-panel properly you would have to change and rebuild ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings
[12:32] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: that would be nice. but to keep in touch with upstream we should document our work in launchpad
[12:32] <ogra_ac_> all panel settings we do there are mandatory
[12:33] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: right, I'm just trying to collect scripts and stuff and then when I'm ready to do a package like ogra says I can just migrate that stuff
[12:33] <tmzt_g2root> we can put in on a ppa too, but I don't know if you have to be a developer for that
[12:33] <tmzt_g2root> can't put raw scripts on ppa though
[12:33] <ogra_ac_> currently you have to for armel only packages
[12:33] <ogra_ac_> ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings is arch all though
[12:34] <ogra_ac_> so for that package any ppa will do
[12:34] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: ... forgot an important point 3) on screen keyboard not available everywhere
[12:34] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac_: it will probably require changing launcher itself, we need kinetic scrolling and mtdev (finger width) support
[12:34] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: that might be an issue, it isn't for me with g2 though, but please solve it
[12:34] <tmzt_g2root> I'm trying to get androix to send some events for soft keys on android
[12:35] <ogra_ac_> tmzt_g2root, well, then you have to wait until our armel PPA spec is implemented
[12:35] <tmzt_g2root> I haven't decided how to handle them yet thouh
[12:35] <ogra_ac_> which wont happen before the alpha2 release i suspect
[12:35] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac_: okay, I'm putting together a repo on androix.org for now
[12:35] <ogra_ac_> but it will enable armel on all PPAs
[12:35] <tmzt_g2root> that would be good, especially if it could build for older architectures, but I don't expect that
[12:36] <ogra_ac> it will use the ubuntu defaults
[12:36] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: regarding on screen keyboard lack 3) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/626055
[12:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 626055 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "oem-config: make on-screen keyboard available (affects: 1) (heat: 40)" [Low,New]
[12:36] <tmzt_g2root> maybe we could do a small panel thing that just does indicators, no clue if they would work with efl though
[12:37] <tmzt_g2root> we could mix in illume and gnome, that would be confusing
[12:37] <ogra_ac> have a look at ubiquity
[12:37] <ogra_ac> it brings a minimal panel in maverick
[12:37] <ogra_ac> i guess its not hard to rip the panel code out of it and build a standalone package
[12:38] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: I need to ask you about remixes and policies, I'm trying to build something to run Ubuntu on top of Android, for now I'm calling it Native Netbook
[12:39] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, uquity works on 2d?
[12:39] <ogra_ac> sure
[12:39] <tmzt_g2root> cool, we'll look at that then
[12:40] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>i dont know the exact policy
[12:40] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: small panel ? can you elaborate ?
[12:40] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: how do you find this stuff in lp?
[12:40] <ogra_ac> might be that you cant use the logos etc
[12:40] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: I enter my lp URI :)
[12:41] <ogra_ac> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
[12:43] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: I'm going to let you handle keyboard stuff :) but I'm sure I'll need it when people with nexus, etc. want to try it
[12:44] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: I don't have any android device, sorry.
[12:44] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: right, it's not an android issue though, it's a touchscreen issue
[12:44] <tmzt_g2root> and you do have a leo
[12:45] <tmzt_g2root> I would be using an osk in X, not androids
[12:45] <dcordes> I am using onboard , the standard ubuntu osk
[12:46] <tmzt_g2root> can't IME do what your bug 443986 says, pop up osk if the widget gets keyboard focus?
[12:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 443986 in onboard "RFE: Add option to automatically show and hide onboard (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443986
[12:47] <tmzt_g2root> I guess X really needs a flag to tell it if a physical keyboard is attaeched, or you would have to enumerate the Xi2 device list
[12:48] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: that would be nice
[12:48] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: what is IME ?
[12:48] <tmzt_g2root> input methods
[12:48] <tmzt_g2root> it would require a gtk/gdk patch too I assume
[12:48] <tmzt_g2root> but at least there's a standard way to handle that
[12:48] <dcordes> can you append it in the bug ?
[12:48] <tmzt_g2root> it's also possible openmoko had this on the gtk version a few versions back
[12:49] <tmzt_g2root> and figure out oauth again? :)
[12:49] <dcordes> currently openmokoe shr uses some efl osk keyboard
[12:49] <tmzt_g2root> how do you add a project or distribution?
[12:49] <tmzt_g2root> currently, I'm talking about the gtk version they had
[12:49] <tmzt_g2root> they also had the finger gtk theme
[12:50] <dcordes> right I remember
[12:50] <tmzt_g2root> I've ping #xorg-devel about the Xi question
[12:50] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: have you tried getting any of the new 3d stuff to compile against bionic so it can use libgles_cm?
[12:50] <dcordes> many touchscreen device owners would love such a feature in Xorg
[12:51] <dcordes> I have no clue about all the 3d stuff
[12:51] <tmzt_g2root> it's one properties, PhysicalKeyboard or whatever
[12:51] <tmzt_g2root> that's why I'm sticking with efl at the moment
[12:52] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/X/Blueprints/Touchscreen/UDS-M
[12:52] <tmzt_g2root>  that's not kubuntu specific, they just show up higher in google
[12:53] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: what happened to the mobile channel? where did all the netbook stuff get moved too?
[12:54] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: ok. we might as well discuss TS things in #ubuntu-touch
[12:57] <tmzt_g2root> I should just see if starting metacity fixes it, I don't think maximus is supposed to work standalone
[12:57] <tmzt_g2root> if you have a working panel config I can help you push it to my git or whatever you have
[12:59] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: in launchpad we might create a 'project' 'ubuntu on small screen (& touch screen devices)'
[12:59] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: then we can have bugs like off screen windows, lack of osk affect it
[12:59] <tmzt_g2root> WVGA Touchscreen ?
[12:59] <dcordes> that would exclude vga devices and exotic resolutions
[13:00] <tmzt_g2root> like qvga?
[13:00] <tmzt_g2root> you need this for your kaiser :) ?
[13:00] <tmzt_g2root> WVGA is a difficult case, most of the bugs will be height related and also apply to VGA
[13:01] <dcordes> QVGA screens are too small for any of this and the devices' other hw is too slow to run full ubuntu systems
[13:01] <hrw> in basement I have XGA 10" touchscreen device
[13:01] <dcordes> I think small screen is good. but what about the approach ?
[13:01] <dcordes> in general means
[13:01] <tmzt_g2root> define small
[13:01] <dcordes> ok max wvga
[13:01] <tmzt_g2root> this isn't for XGA or WXGA or 1024x600 there's plenty of coverage for that
[13:02] <dcordes> ah true
[13:02] <dcordes> didn't think of that
[13:02] <dcordes> we can do smartphone & pda then ?
[13:02] <dcordes> it would cover phone functionalities
[13:02] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, netbook (unity) is fully handled by the desktop team now (since unity merges both desktops)
[13:02] <tmzt_g2root> wvga+ like the motorola's I would say, but that's waht 854x496 or so
[13:02] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: is 2d/framebuffer still supported?
[13:03] <ogra_ac> not atm
[13:03] <ogra_ac> only with a std desktop as fallback
[13:03] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: I don't have 3d support yet, I should be able to get 3d working but it might just be redirected rendering/AIGLX stuff
[13:04] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: know what let's just go device specific (ubuntu on hd2 & g2) if others want to hop on we can generalize later
[13:04] <ogra_ac> depends on your platform, there is no GLES support in unity yet
[13:04] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: so I'm starting with netbook-efl, most of these problems will be unrelated to the acutal desktop, bugs in programs etc.
[13:04] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: well, it's going to have to be GLES, so that's another reason to stick with 2d for now
[13:05] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: G2 won't have keyboard issues, the things we have in common are WVGA and Touchscreen
[13:05] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: ok I don't see a problem there
[13:06] <ogra_ac> just note that we might stop using the efl launcher in ubuntu (so support will rather have to be community based)
[13:06] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: yeah, it will still be in natty or that's not known yet
[13:07] <ogra_ac> we wont remove the package from the archive
[13:08] <ogra_ac> but given that it will likely not be used by default anymore bugfixes and maintenance has to come from the community
[13:08] <tmzt_g2root> I think the only thing we need to change in it is the scrolling issue for touchscreens
[13:08] <tmzt_g2root> yeah, okay
[13:09] <tmzt_g2root> does it have a maintainer or we need ubuntu developer for that? (not canoncial)
[13:09] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: how about "smallscreentouchscreen" project
[13:09] <ogra_ac> well, you can indeed work through a sponsor
[13:09] <ogra_ac> but for uploading to ubuntu you will need one
[13:10] <tmzt_g2root> what is the project for? just tracking bugs against ubuntu that affect screenscreen touchscreens? I really think small is too vague
[13:10] <dcordes> yes to track bugs that affect our devices
[13:10] <tmzt_g2root> as far as aspect, we really aren't going to support vga either because that would require massive chnages from what every laptop/netbook is now
[13:11] <dcordes> and maybe to upload non-sub-project-specific scripts/code later
[13:12] <tmzt_g2root> well, the packages, but those are all config stuff, I wouldn't be putting any system stuff there at all
[13:12] <dcordes> yes config etc
[13:12] <tmzt_g2root> I mean like launcher defaults, maybe unity places stuff if we can switch to unity
[13:16]  * ogra_ac is off for a while
[13:17] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: smartphonebuntu ? I think it is not neccessary for the project name to refelct the exact aims
[13:17] <tmzt_g2root> no, read the trademark policy
[13:18] <tmzt_g2root> which ogra linked to
[13:18] <dcordes> argh
[13:18] <dcordes> smartphone-remix
[13:18] <tmzt_g2root> possibly
[13:18] <dcordes> you like it? any other idea ?
[13:19] <tmzt_g2root> it
[13:19] <tmzt_g2root> I'm looking for developer to create new on-screen keyboard with Input Method Editor. Similar to those available on mobile devices. Currently I'm using matchbox-keyboard but for my purpose I guess it's worth start from scratch.
[13:19] <tmzt_g2root> oops
[13:19] <tmzt_g2root> it seems to be what I'm trying to do
[13:41] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: https://launchpad.net/smartphone
[13:52] <tmzt_g2root> can you duplicate the ~lg bugs there?
[13:52] <tmzt_g2root> link them
[14:04] <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, where is the bug for that and does cooloney already know (and work on it) ?
[14:09] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: I did already. check https://bugs.launchpad.net/smartphone
[14:10] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: I discussed the xinput problem, I think I can just add a property to the device by patching evdev, or in my case, in the server init
[14:10] <tmzt_g2root> so it would show up when you do xinput list-props <id>
[14:11] <tmzt_g2root> there's already a "Device Enabled" property
[14:12] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: to which device ?
[14:12] <tmzt_g2root> then the IME just has to walk that and see if any are Physical && Enabled, and if so, not show the osk
[14:12] <tmzt_g2root> to the keyboard device
[14:12] <dcordes> ok
[14:12] <tmzt_g2root> then we patch evdev to handle the SW event that's created when you slide the keyboard
[14:13] <tmzt_g2root> for you, when you plug your usb keyboard the same thing happens
[14:13] <tmzt_g2root> and for me, I get the value from android and set the priv myself
[14:14] <dcordes> is this a global keyboard presence detection mechanism ?
[14:14] <tmzt_g2root> yeah
[14:14] <dcordes> patching evdev - is this specific to the device (driver) ?
[14:14] <tmzt_g2root> but onscreen keyboards and x2x won't register that property
[14:15] <tmzt_g2root> no, evdev already detects if it it's a keyboard, it will be wrong for uinput keyboards so we may have to put it in udev or something else
[14:15] <tmzt_g2root> like hal did, but it didn't propogate it
[14:15] <dcordes> are there evdev / Xorg bugtrackers ?
[14:16] <tmzt_g2root> there are, but I'll propose it to the list later, we can just put it on my github for now
[14:16] <dcordes> youz should publish the approach and gather interested people's attention
[14:16] <tmzt_g2root> I already have half of xorg cloned
[14:16] <dcordes> ok bugtracker is nice
[14:16]  * ogra_ac would recommend asking in #ubuntu-x
[14:16] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: is that supposed to be public? I was having an issue with it
[14:16] <ogra_ac> sure thats public
[14:16] <tmzt_g2root> never mind
[14:16] <tmzt_g2root> weird
[14:17] <dcordes> ogra_ac: as tmzt_g2root's approach sounds to me it will be better to have it a global X thing and not discuss it distro internal
[14:17] <ogra_ac> sure
[14:17] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: I pinged daniels in #xorg-devel he agreed with the property thing, and reminded me of Device Enabled
[14:17] <dcordes> then again there might be many ubuntu developers interested in supporting it
[14:17] <ogra_ac> still you should talk to the ubuntu X force
[14:18] <tmzt_g2root> I'm sure acpi devices already have something like that
[14:18] <tmzt_g2root> right
[14:18] <tmzt_g2root> touchpads I mean
[14:18] <dcordes> ogra_ac: soon as it is on Xorg list we should refer to it there
[14:19] <dcordes> I have to run catch you guys around
[14:53] <ogra> sigh
[14:53] <ogra> so i think the kernel panic on boot is run-init failing
[14:54] <ogra>  /init: exec: line 331: run-init: Unknown error 17718852
[14:54]  * ogra wonders if that toolchain related
[14:58] <ogra> GrueMaster, rsalveti, bug 683683
[14:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683683 in klibc (Ubuntu) "run-init on omap4 in natty dies with "run-init: Unknown error 17718852" (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683683
[15:12] <ogra> NCommander, so apparently klibc wasnt rebuilt yet in natty
[15:13] <ogra> GrueMaster, btw, the error is easily visible if you dont tinker with serial consoles, it gets clearly printed on the screen
[15:13] <RobotGuy> We are basing our PickleJar Linux on Ubuntu Maverick. :D
[15:14] <RobotGuy> PickleJar Linux is the distro for our Pico Node project.
[15:16] <ogra> RobotGuy, great to hear
[15:17] <RobotGuy> We have an expansion board for BeagleBoard-xM in the design process now and hope to have the first few boards soon. Find out more at http://www.picklejar.org
[15:18] <RobotGuy> Our kernel version is <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:19] <ogra> hrm, run-init is 93 LOC ... of which 40 are license text
[15:20]  * ogra doesnt see what could be wrong in there
[15:21] <NCommander> ogra: so no changes rebuild needed maybe?
[15:22] <ogra> not sure
[15:22] <ogra> look at the code, probably you see something obvious
[15:22] <ogra> i surely dont
[15:22] <ogra> hmm runinitlib.c seems to define some glibc stuff at the top
[15:29] <NCommander> ogra: something is going hidiously wrongin run_init()
[15:29] <ogra> why would it ?
[15:30] <ogra> it didnt change
[15:30] <NCommander> ogra: I'm saying that's what happening, I don't know why, but the error message being printed out suggests that's where we are blowing up
[15:30] <ogra> well, but take a look at the code, probably you see something i dont
[15:30] <NCommander>         /* If run_init returns, something went wrong */
[15:30] <NCommander>         fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s: %s\n", program, error, strerror(errno));
[15:31] <ogra> no, we are blowing up in line 88 already
[15:31] <ogra> in run_init(realroot, console, init, initargs);
[15:31] <ogra> which seems to come from runinitlib.c
[15:32] <ogra> through run-init.h
[15:32] <NCommander> right, run_init() is returning when it shouldn't e
[15:32] <ogra> yes
[15:33] <NCommander> the execv() call is failing
[15:34] <NCommander> only place it can fail in this code and return a string of "Unknown error" I think
[15:34] <ogra> well, it could fail because it gets wrong args
[15:34] <ogra> and the linaro bug says the errno is random
[15:34] <ogra> so nothing to grab
[15:34] <NCommander> which linaro bug?
[15:35] <ogra> did you read my bug ?
[15:35] <NCommander> yeah, I did
[15:35] <NCommander> I don't see anything from linaro
[15:35] <NCommander> oh
[15:35] <ogra> reload ?
[15:35] <ogra> :)
[15:35]  * NCommander just hit refresh
[15:35] <ogra> oh, i did too
[15:35] <ogra> there is a debian bug linked
[15:35] <NCommander> Debug #334917
[15:35] <NCommander> er
[15:36] <NCommander> Debian bug #334917
[15:36] <ubot2> Debian bug 334917 in klibc "klibc barfs on m68k syscall interface" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/334917
[15:36] <NCommander> nice bug title
[15:36] <RobotGuy> Debug seems appropriate, somehow. :D :D
[15:38] <NCommander> ogra: looking at the debian bug, I think its unrelated simply because execve is a syscall and the first one is called directly. the ARM EABI syscall interface in klibc is correct else this would have blown up ages ago. So similar error, but I think unrelated causes
[15:38] <GrueMaster> ogra: Ok I'm semi-awake.  What do you mean:  <ogra> GrueMaster, btw, the error is easily visible if you dont tinker with serial consoles, it gets clearly printed on the screen
[15:38] <GrueMaster> It is not clearly visible on my screen.
[15:39] <ogra> GrueMaster, you could have found it with the image from the 19th if you hadnt set up a serial console and just dropped splash from cmdline
[15:39] <ogra> thats how i got it at least
[15:39] <ogra> it shows up right before the kernel panic (which it does because there is no rootfs)
[15:40] <NCommander> ogra: I'm looking at the linaro branch right now to see if anything is clear from that
[15:40] <ogra> branch ?
[15:40] <ogra> do they have a separate klibc branch from ubuntu ?
[15:41] <GrueMaster> So then why doesn't it show up with serial console?
[15:41] <GrueMaster> That doesn't make sense.
[15:41] <NCommander> ogra: they said in their bug that they have a branch to fix it
[15:42] <ogra> NCommander, yes, for the linaro build tools issue that shows up too
[15:42] <ogra> NCommander, (OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory from remove_binary_dir.py from _run_code from _run_module_as_main).
[15:42] <ogra> not related to to booting
[15:47]  * ogra reboots with break=bottom
[15:47] <ogra> lets take a look at the environment
[15:49] <ogra> ok
[15:50] <ogra> exec run-init /root /sbin/init gets me the same error
[16:04] <NCommander> ogra: any chance you can get gdbserver into the initramfs environment?
[16:04]  * NCommander finally got enough coffee into his bloodstream to be lucid enough to think
[16:04] <ogra> try it ?
[16:05] <NCommander> ogra: your ahead of me on having things to test on :-). I'm still reading emails while drinking GrueBrew Coffee
[16:05] <ogra> i dont have any things to test on
[16:06] <ogra> i just added break=bottom to my cdmline
[16:06] <ogra> you need to write a hook and rebuild the initrd for getting your gdbserver included
[16:06] <ogra> or for getting any other debug tool
[16:08] <NCommander> ogra: just copy it in somehow, its not that difficult
[16:08] <NCommander> but I'll get on it
[16:08] <ogra> ??
[16:08] <ogra> "copy it in somehow" ?
[16:09] <NCommander> ogra: gdbserver is a tiny little stub binary
[16:09] <NCommander> then attach to it with a cross-debugger
[16:10] <ogra> you still need to re-roll the initrd
[16:16] <ogra> so init=/bin/bash doesnt work either
[16:17]  * ogra drops all bootarchs apart from root=
[16:18] <ogra> argh
[16:18] <ogra> bad idea ...
[16:18]  * ogra beats jasper over the head
[16:22] <GrueMaster> So it's a jasper issue?  I'm still reading emails and backscrolls.
[16:22] <mellis> hey any idea how to get sound working on the beagle xm rev b
[16:22] <GrueMaster> there is a rev b?  sigh.
[16:23] <mellis> yeah :(
[16:23] <armin76> lol
[16:24] <mellis> i dont think they fixed anything really
[16:25] <GrueMaster> no, but it is possible that something changed requiring an updated kernel...again.
[16:25] <GrueMaster> Are you running the stock maverick release image?
[16:26] <ogra> GrueMaster, ??
[16:27] <ogra> its a klibc issue
[16:27] <ogra> nothing to do with jasper
[16:27] <GrueMaster> and I am not talking to you atm ogra.  Read the current thread.
[16:27] <GrueMaster> mellis: ???
[16:38] <mellis> sorry just went to get food
[16:38] <mellis> yeah i got the minimal image and installed ubuntu-desktop package over it
[16:39] <GrueMaster> no problem.
[16:39] <GrueMaster> minimal image?
[16:41] <mellis> also called the demo image
[16:41] <mellis> i couldint get s-video to work on the preinstalled image
[16:43] <davidm> prpplague, have a look at: http://dmtechtalk.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/progress-on-an-arm-cluster-server-box/
[16:43] <mellis> yeah i got the demo image then installed ubuntu-desktop and the omap driveres on top
[16:43] <davidm> prpplague, it will fit nicely into a standard 19" rack cabinet
[16:44] <GrueMaster> If this image is attached to the ubuntu repositories, try enabling maverick-proposed and updating.  I think there was a fix for audio in alsa-utils, but it may be only omap4 specific.
[16:45] <mellis> ok i will try
[16:47]  * prpplague looks
[16:47] <prpplague> davidm: right, i'm actually doing some with them on that
[16:49] <mellis> humm my webcam also wont work so could it be a kernal problem?
[16:51] <hrw> mellis: does it work with x86 box?
[16:52] <mellis> the webcam yes
[17:00] <sveinse> hrw: I confirm problems cross compiling Qt for both gcc 4.4 and 4.5, so its related to some difference between the ubuntu cross compiler and the CSL. I'll file a bug.
[17:00] <mellis> and i cant find anything missing from my setup
[17:02] <hrw> sveinse: mention package versions for gcc 4.4/4.5 and version of Qt. if Qt is from nokia then give url please
[17:02]  * hrw -> out
[17:34] <ogra> hmm, that dist-upgrade of my chroot will take a while
[18:04] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: lmbench has the wrong bin path, if you noticed
[18:05] <rsalveti> currently the package delivers armv5tel-linux-gnu instead of armv7l-linux-gnu
[18:05] <rsalveti> that's because the package path is decided during build time, and detected by a script during runtime
[18:05] <GrueMaster> hadn't gotten that far yet.  Any suggestions?
[18:05] <rsalveti> and this package was built in an armv5 machine, while in karmic hehe :-)
[18:06] <rsalveti> copying the files should be enough, but I also recreated the package, let me post you the link
[18:06] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: how do you switch the default gnome-session back to GNOME ?
[18:06] <tmzt_g2root> without using gdm
[18:07] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session
[18:09] <tmzt_g2root> as the user?
[18:09] <tmzt_g2root> I don't seem to have that
[18:09] <tmzt_g2root> oh, I'm not using gdm at all
[18:09] <ogra_ac> no, its system wide, not as a user
[18:10] <tmzt_g2root> just starting ck-session-launch dbus-launch --exit-with-session gnome-session
[18:10] <tmzt_g2root> right, but I'm not getting a panel following these instructions
[18:10] <tmzt_g2root> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuNetbookEdition/ConvertGnomeSession
[18:12] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/lmbench/ for now
[18:13] <GrueMaster> ok
[18:13] <rsalveti> we should have a bug, will see if we got it already otherwise need to fill it
[18:15] <mellis> hey i just installed the omap kernal package how do i get it to boot
[18:15] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: that is the wiki page I was talking about !
[18:15] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: I know, I saw it yesterday, but it doesn't work for me
[18:16] <tmzt_g2root> /apps/maximus/exclude_class [Empathy,Totem,Gwibber,Gnome-language-selector,Gtk-recordMyDesktop,Onboard,Vlc,Seahorse-agent,Gnome-keyring-prompt]
[18:16] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: there was some error in the 2d instruction part
[18:17] <tmzt_g2root> I'll have to add dialog or something to that, or just gedit's or libgtk open
[18:18] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: do you want me to look up anything in my rootfs ?
[18:18] <tmzt_g2root> what script do you use to start the gnome-session?
[18:20] <dcordes> sudo ln -s /etc/xdg/xdg-une/autostart/maximus-autostart.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart/
[18:20] <dcordes> sudo ln -s /etc/xdg/xdg-une-efl/autostart/netbook-launcher-efl.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart/
[18:20] <tmzt_g2root> I have both of those, I don't get a panel when starting gnome-session
[18:21] <tmzt_g2root> the first time I started gnome-session it was a normal desktop, before symlinking that stuff
[18:21] <dcordes> the first line.. I think it should be
[18:21] <dcordes> /etc/xdg/xdg-une-efl/autostart/netbook-launcher-efl.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart/
[18:21] <tmzt_g2root> /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager mutter
[18:21] <tmzt_g2root> /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/panel ''
[18:21] <tmzt_g2root> oh
[18:22] <dcordes> can you try that ?
[18:26] <tmzt_g2root> still no panel
[18:27] <tmzt_g2root> nevermind, it was just slow
[18:28] <ogra_ac> NCommander, so building klibc brings intresting results in the buildlog
[18:28] <tmzt_g2root> vte doesn't work, I have never seen that before
[18:28] <ogra_ac> NCommander, it has -march=armv4 -mtune=strongarm hardcoded
[18:29] <ogra_ac> (but given that has always been the casei wouldnt think that has any influence on our bug)
[18:30] <NCommander> ogra_ac: yeah, was looking at that, but I think its irrevelent
[18:30] <NCommander> klibc didn't help, nor did upstart
[18:30] <ogra_ac> you rebuilt it ?
[18:30] <NCommander> I tried downgrading the kernel to maverick release on a hunch
[18:30] <NCommander> ogra_ac: yeah
[18:30] <ogra_ac> what would upstart have to do with it ?
[18:30] <ogra_ac> we are way before upstart
[18:31] <ogra_ac> and as i said in the bug init=/bin/bash didnt work either
[18:31] <NCommander> ogra_ac: sorry, meant to say that I don't htink upstart helps
[18:31] <NCommander> ogra_ac: or part of it
[18:31] <ogra_ac> no, upstart is out of scope here
[18:31] <NCommander> right
[18:31] <NCommander> Very very odd
[18:31] <ogra_ac> i still think its the args that are messed up
[18:31] <ogra_ac> try to add some schos to /init
[18:31] <NCommander> ogra_ac: yeah, but what changed to kill the args
[18:31] <ogra_ac> *echos
[18:32] <ogra_ac> echo $@
[18:32] <ogra_ac> echo ${rootmnt}
[18:32] <ogra_ac> and
[18:33] <ogra_ac> echo ${init}
[18:33] <ogra_ac> see what that shows
[18:33] <ogra_ac> also note that break= drops you into a subshell, so you cant run run-init manually
[18:33] <NCommander> ogra_ac: how close are you to doing so? (I can rapidly respin the initrams ATM on my ac100, but if your already doing it ...)
[18:33] <ogra_ac> i'm not even near my panda atm
[18:34] <ogra_ac> just building klibc remotely with different options
[18:34] <ogra_ac> so i would appreciate if you could test
[18:34] <NCommander> ogra_ac: what script calls run-init? (or do I need to smack the code)
[18:34] <ogra_ac>  /init
[18:35] <ogra_ac> its a shell script
[18:35] <ogra_ac> just add some echos
[18:35] <ogra_ac> lives in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init
[18:35] <NCommander> ogra_ac: thanks. I thought you called run-init directly thoguh within a console with proper args and still got a crash
[18:35] <ogra_ac> in the normal system
[18:35] <ogra_ac> i tried that
[18:35] <NCommander> ogra_ac: disclaimer: I don't get the run-init error, just the panic on the serial console
[18:35] <ogra_ac> just to be told that wont work because i'm in a subshell
[18:36] <ogra_ac> NCommander, you will get it on the monitor if you boot without splash
[18:36] <ogra_ac> you will also get it if you boot with break=bottom and ctrl-d out of it to continue the boot
[18:37] <ogra_ac> run-init will only work if called by pid 1
[18:37] <ogra_ac> so you cant call it manually
[18:40] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I don't have a monitor I can use in my "office"
[18:40] <ogra_ac> then just break=bottom
[18:41] <NCommander> ogra_ac: will do
[18:41]  * NCommander kicks his ac100
[18:41] <ogra_ac> and hit ctrl-d
[18:41] <ogra_ac> did you finally manage to wear out your emmc ?
[18:41] <ogra_ac> :)
[18:41] <NCommander> ogra_ac: no, the USB controller is having mini-seizures
[18:42] <ogra_ac> ah
[18:42] <NCommander> and every once in awhile, it and my USB HDD decide to cause a process to become a zombie
[18:42] <NCommander> very annoying when thats dpkg
[18:44] <ogra_ac> just fix the kernel ;)
[18:44] <NCommander> ogra_ac: not paid to do that ATM :-/
[18:44]  * ogra_ac will spend a good part of his holiday improving the ac100
[18:45] <tmzt_g2root> ogra_ac: tegra?
[18:45] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, yep
[18:46] <NCommander> ogra_ac: \o/
[18:46] <ogra_ac> NCommander, dont party to early, i will concentrate on moving PM and buttom management into the .29 kernel only
[18:47] <NCommander> ugh
[18:47] <NCommander>  /o\
[18:48] <ogra_ac> for never kernel talk to marvin24
[18:48] <ogra_ac> ;)
[18:48] <ogra_ac> he has something based on .36, just misses a regulator specialist
[18:49] <tmzt_g2root> regulator?
[18:49] <ogra_ac> to power on the LCD i think
[18:49] <ogra_ac> it boots to a serial USB console
[18:49] <tmzt_g2root> clean up the nvidia oem stuff so it stops asking a binary layer to describe the hardware?
[18:49] <ogra_ac> but has no device drivers yet
[18:49] <ogra_ac> no, i will just revert the hacks tochiba put in
[18:50] <tmzt_g2root> then get nouveu?? ported
[18:50] <ogra_ac> and see that i get some sane defaults into the kernel
[18:50] <ogra_ac> nah
[18:50] <ogra_ac> i dont care about 3D drivers
[18:50] <ogra_ac> i just need power management
[18:50] <tmzt_g2root> the 2d is crtc only
[18:50] <tmzt_g2root> lcdc
[18:51] <ogra_ac> i need backlight on/off on lid close and want to have ondemand scaling working
[18:51] <ogra_ac> extra points for dimming support
[18:51] <ogra_ac> and a proper ubuntu initrd
[18:51] <ogra_ac> thats my current focus for the vacation
[18:52] <tmzt_g2root> you don't have an android phones do you?
[18:52] <ogra_ac> nope, i have a sane phone
[18:54] <tmzt_g2root> smart mount -t devpts devpts $MOUNTPT/dev
[18:55] <ogra_ac> NCommander, want to have my klibc built for armv7 ?
[18:55] <ogra_ac> or do you have one already ?
[18:56] <NCommander> ogra_ac: haven't needed it yet
[18:57] <ogra_ac> k
[18:57] <NCommander> ogra_ac: got debugging data
[18:57] <NCommander> ogra_ac: rootmnt is "/root"
[18:57] <NCommander> init is "/sbin/init"
[18:57] <NCommander> arguments: "fixrtc"
[18:57] <NCommander> That was amazingly unuseful
[18:57] <ogra_ac> yeah
[18:57]  * NCommander throws it into the bug for completeness sake
[18:58] <ogra_ac> i wonder if the bindmounted /dev is ok
[18:58] <ogra_ac> i.e. if we get the right console
[18:58] <NCommander> ogra_ac: easy way to test that
[18:59] <NCommander> but run-init has a sanity check for that it should fail with "unable to open consoel" or something like that
[18:59] <NCommander> and its the right major/minor for dev console
[19:00] <ogra_ac> in /dev
[19:00] <ogra_ac> i'm talking about $rootmount/dev
[19:01] <ogra_ac> udev should move mount /dev to /root/dev, but i wonder what happens if that doesnt work/happen
[19:01] <NCommander> ogra_ac: system would fallover
[19:01] <ogra_ac> yeah, likely even before run-init
[19:02] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I think you might be onto something
[19:02] <NCommander> /root/dev is populated
[19:03] <NCommander> we have a newer upstream udev
[19:03] <NCommander> and udev sometimes breaks backwards compatilbility with older kernels
[19:03] <ogra_ac> see /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/udev
[19:03] <NCommander> and mainline kernel is on 37
[19:03] <NCommander> hrm
[19:03] <ogra_ac> probably add some ls in there
[19:03] <NCommander> give me a sec, I want to check something else first
[19:03] <ogra_ac> before the move ls /dev
[19:04] <ogra_ac> after the move ls /root/dev
[19:04] <ogra_ac> and compare
[19:04] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I'm trying to downgrade udev
[19:04] <NCommander> to maverick
[19:05] <NCommander> just rule it out completely
[19:05] <ogra_ac> k
[19:06] <ogra_ac> maverick has 162
[19:06] <ogra_ac> natty 164
[19:07]  * ogra_ac checks changelogs
[19:09] <ogra_ac> looks okayish
[19:15] <NCommander> ogra_ac: no love there, udev downgrade and still a hang
[19:15] <NCommander> I'm runng out of things to downgrade
[19:16] <ogra_ac> so want my klibc package ?
[19:16] <NCommander> ogra_ac: sure althoguh at this point I don't think it will help
[19:17] <ogra_ac> i dont think it either
[19:19] <NCommander> ogra_ac: doing the ls devs doesn't reveal anytthing interesting
[19:19] <NCommander> I'm running out of ideas
[19:19] <ogra_ac> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/libklibc_1.5.20-1_armel.deb and http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/klibc-utils_1.5.20-1_armel.deb
[19:22] <mellis> her where would i go to report / check a bug in the omap kernel
[19:22] <NCommander> mellis: downgrading the kenrel didn't fix it
[19:22] <NCommander> Don't think this is a kernel problem, probably something with userland
[19:23] <mellis> i upgraded my kernal and it fixed my sound problem but my s-video went dead
[19:24] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I'm wonder ...
[19:24]  * NCommander is starting to think run-init == redherring
[19:24] <ogra_ac> yes
[19:24] <ogra_ac> thats why i looked at the args
[19:24] <ogra_ac> what do you suspect ?
[19:25] <sveinse> Anyone there knows the correct gcc options for TI OMAP3?  -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8
[19:25] <NCommander> ogra_ac: well, ... I'm not so sure now. I just tried replacing /sbin/init on my panda with /bin/bash, and letting it boot and it just fell over regardless
[19:26] <ogra_ac> ??
[19:26] <ogra_ac> you mean in the rootfs ?
[19:26] <NCommander> yeah
[19:26] <ogra_ac> well, we dont get to the rootfs
[19:26] <NCommander> We're getting as far as the execve() call
[19:26] <ogra_ac> no matter what you use
[19:26] <NCommander> ?
[19:27] <NCommander> oh
[19:27] <NCommander> yes
[19:27] <ogra_ac> i tired init=/bin/bash already
[19:27] <GrueMaster> on a different note, I did some preliminary testing of the linaro kernel on my BeagleXM, and it seems ok.    :P
[19:30] <ogra_ac> the OOPS you see has not much to do with run-init failing
[19:31] <NCommander> ogra_ac: yeah, I got that
[19:31] <ogra_ac> the OOPS you see is simply the kernel not finiding init
[19:31] <NCommander> right
[19:31] <NCommander> hrm
[19:31] <ogra_ac> which you also get on older releases if init isnt executable or available
[19:32] <ogra_ac> ignore the kernel in this context its all run-init
[19:32] <GrueMaster> ogra_ac: I updated the kernel whiteboard for that task.
[19:32] <NCommander> ogra_ac: right, so I'm rebuilding it now with -O2 -g, and will see if I can attach a debugger to it
[19:33] <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, merci
[19:33] <NCommander> (knowing our luck, that will mysteriously fix it)
[19:33] <ogra_ac> NCommander, did you test with my v7 build from above ?
[19:34] <ogra_ac> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/libklibc_1.5.20-1_armel.deb and http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/klibc-utils_1.5.20-1_armel.deb
[19:34] <ogra_ac> NCommander, ^^^
[19:34] <jcrigby> what if you can't run any executable on rootfs because of some weird ld.so.blah mismatch
[19:35] <ogra_ac> hmm
[19:35] <tmzt_g2root> with klibc?
[19:35] <ogra_ac> yeah, someone should try booting with a maverick initrd
[19:37] <ogra_ac> tmzt_g2root, klibc is only used in initrd
[19:37] <tmzt_g2root> not paying close enough attention
[19:37] <tmzt_g2root> I've got crazy stuff like this but not to the point of err values getting overwritten
[19:38] <tmzt_g2root> but, you could try init=/lib/ld-linux.so.3
[19:38] <tmzt_g2root> and see if it prints anything
[19:42] <tmzt_g2root> dcordes: you had efl and panel at the same time? I can't get that to work
[19:43] <mellis> why wont the omap kernels work with s-video
[19:44] <GrueMaster> It isn't an easy interface to test.
[19:44] <tmzt_g2root> mellis: missing i2c controller driver?
[19:44] <GrueMaster> Not sure if it is just a config flag or it requires more kernel work.
[19:44] <mellis> no idea
[19:45] <tmzt_g2root> sorry encoder
[19:45] <mellis> i have one kernel that works
[19:46] <GrueMaster> The only thing I have available for testing that output is my 42" LCD in the livingroom, but it is very difficult to get setup for svideo.
[19:47] <mellis> yeah i only have a s-video tv so ima bit stuck
[20:03] <sveinse> hrw|gone: Here is bug #683832 as instructed.
[20:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683832 in gcc-4.4-armel-cross (Ubuntu) "gcc fails to cross compile Qt (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683832
[20:11] <sveinse> I reported the bug in gcc-4.4-armel-cross, but it also applies to gcc-4.5-armel-cross. Do I need to add a new bug, or can I link them for both packages?
[20:32] <NCommander> ah haw
[20:32] <NCommander> might figured out what broke
[20:33] <ogra_ac> tell me
[20:34] <jcrigby> the suspense is killing us
[20:34] <NCommander> ogra_ac: or not
[20:34] <NCommander> but if I set init to /bin/dash
[20:34] <NCommander> it works
[20:34] <NCommander> the plot thickens
[20:35] <NCommander> er
[20:35] <NCommander> maybe not
[20:35] <NCommander> strange
[20:35] <NCommander> as soon as run-init runs, it breaks the enviornment
[20:36] <ogra_ac> no, /init unsets most of it
[20:36] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I'm referring to running run-init directly
[20:36] <ogra_ac> before it runs run-init
[20:36] <NCommander> if I runit through strace, it makes some very pretty output and works
[20:36] <NCommander> (sorta)
[20:37] <ogra_ac> you cant run it from a pid other than 1
[20:37] <NCommander> I get the same sorta errors though
[20:37] <ogra_ac> (you cant run it from the initramfs shell)
[20:38] <ogra_ac> if you want to strace or gdb it you have to do that inside /init
[20:38] <ogra_ac> you can never do it manually
[20:46] <NCommander> strace isn't very useful
[20:46] <NCommander> kernel panics before it finishs printing debug info
[20:47] <ogra_ac> and gdb will be painful to get commands in
[20:50] <NCommander> ogra_ac: indeed
[20:50] <NCommander> I'm nearly out of ideas here on how to debug
[20:50] <jcrigby> I just did a diff on a good initrd vs a bad one and other than binaries the only diff is this:
[20:51] <jcrigby> diff -ru goodtree/init badtree/init
[20:51] <jcrigby> --- goodtree/init       2010-12-01 13:41:26.376116002 -0700
[20:51] <jcrigby> +++ badtree/init        2010-12-01 13:41:26.796116002 -0700
[20:51] <jcrigby> @@ -53,6 +53,11 @@
[20:51] <jcrigby>  export resume=
[20:51] <jcrigby>  export resume_offset=
[20:51] <jcrigby>
[20:51] <jcrigby> +# mdadm needs hostname to be set. This has to be done before the udev rules are called!
[20:51] <jcrigby> +if [ -f "/etc/hostname" ]; then
[20:51] <jcrigby> +        /bin/hostname -b -F /etc/hostname 2>&1 1>/dev/null
[20:51] <jcrigby> +fi
[20:51] <jcrigby> +
[20:51] <ogra_ac> yeah, i checked that already
[20:51] <jcrigby>  # Bring in the main config
[20:51] <NCommander> jcrigby: PASTEBIN PLEASE
[20:51] <jcrigby>  . /conf/initramfs.conf
[20:51] <jcrigby>  for conf in conf/conf.d/*; do
[20:51] <jcrigby> NCommander, I figured it was short enough
[20:51] <jcrigby> sorry
[20:51] <ogra_ac> and we dont have /etc/hostname inside initrd
[20:51] <ogra_ac> so thats a noop
[20:52] <NCommander> jcrigby: can you do a diff to tell us what binaries changed between last known good and current?
[20:52] <ogra_ac> but we also have a new udev and i see some systemd code in it, but then why wouldnt that also fail on other ubuntu images
[20:52] <NCommander> ogra_ac: downgrading udev didn't help
[20:52] <NCommander> frustatingly enough
[20:52] <ogra_ac> how did you downgrade udev ?
[20:53] <NCommander> ogra_ac: apt-get install udev=162-2 && update-initramfs -u
[20:53] <ogra_ac> that wont clean up anything
[20:53] <ogra_ac> just overwrite
[20:53] <NCommander> ?
[20:53] <ogra_ac> you could as well do dpkg -x udev*.deb /
[20:54] <ogra_ac> if there are new binaries in the newer udev they will still persist
[20:54] <NCommander> ogra_ac: well, do you have any better ideas?
[20:54] <ogra_ac> no
[20:54] <NCommander> ogra: why would the new binaries persist?
[20:54] <ogra_ac> because there is nothing removing them
[20:55] <ogra_ac> the only sane way to test that would be to take maverick and step by step upgrade
[20:55] <NCommander> ogra_ac: dpkg will remove files that only exist in the old package as part of a downgrade
[20:55] <ogra_ac> but thats painful and will take lots of time
[20:55] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I'm out of ideas TBH
[20:55] <NCommander> and I don't know a good way to debug run-init
[20:56] <ogra_ac> i dont think its run-init itself
[20:57] <ogra_ac> a good test to see if its actually userspace would be to: boot maverick with init=/foo break=bottom ... then ctrl-d as you do it in natty and see if you get the same error
[20:57] <ogra_ac> or make /sbin/init unexecutable or some such instead of init=/foo
[20:57] <jcrigby> ok full diff here http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538798/
[20:57] <NCommander> ogra_ac: exec() is failingin run-init
[20:58] <ogra_ac> exec of the subprocess for /sbin/init, no ?
[20:58] <NCommander> so the differences are udev, the kernel, busybox, console-setup, and initramfs-tools
[20:58] <NCommander> and some support libs
[20:59] <ogra_ac> busybox ... hmm
[20:59] <ogra_ac> ignore initramfs-tools
[20:59] <ogra_ac> thats only the hostname stuff
[21:00] <ogra_ac> wait-for-root can be ignored, we have it mounted properl at that point
[21:00] <NCommander> don't think its libuuid
[21:00] <NCommander> libc had an upgrade though
[21:00] <ogra_ac> i think all of the stuff at the bottom thats in sbin can be ignored actually
[21:01] <ogra_ac> libuuid is fine
[21:01] <NCommander> I'm pretty sure its not udev
[21:01] <ogra_ac> else you wouldnt have /root mounted
[21:01] <NCommander> cause we would have seen breakage during mounting
[21:01] <ogra_ac> libc didnt change between maverick and natty
[21:01] <ogra_ac> i guess libgcc did
[21:02] <ogra_ac> but i wouldnt know what effec that should have
[21:02] <ogra_ac> the best candidate is busybox
[21:03] <ogra_ac> the only big difference we have is the kernel vs x86
[21:03] <NCommander> ogra_ac: glibc had an upgrade
[21:03] <ogra_ac> and linaro as well is on .35 ( jcrigby might correct me)
[21:04] <ogra_ac> NCommander, not in natty
[21:04] <NCommander> ogra_ac: have we had any working natty images?
[21:04] <GrueMaster> not that I know of.
[21:04] <ogra_ac> nope
[21:05]  * ogra_ac doesnt see any eglibc uploads
[21:05] <ogra_ac> nor any syncs that wuld have been processed
[21:06] <ogra_ac> NCommander, the only image that was tested before yesterdays and todays was the one from the 19th and GrueMaster reported the same issue with that one
[21:07] <GrueMaster> Sorry I couldn't debug it further.  I found it late that Friday and spend the working part of the following week testing maverick-proposed and doing bug triage.
[21:07] <ogra_ac> dont worry
[21:08] <ogra_ac> NCommander, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc 2.12.1-0ubuntu9  in maverick and natty
[21:10] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: yes. that works for me in the ootb une-efl session as well as in the hacked gnome efl session
[21:10] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: (panel and efl)
[21:11] <dcordes> tmzt_g2root: did you post to the X ml yet ?
[21:11] <NCommander> ogra_ac: I have no idea ATM, it possibly could be udev but that seems unliekly
[21:11] <NCommander> GrueMaster: do we know if maverick->natty upgrades work on armel?
[21:11] <ogra_ac> why shouldnt they ?
[21:12] <ogra_ac> at this state of the relase they are manual work anyway
[21:12] <GrueMaster> hasn't been tested yet.
[21:13] <NCommander> ogra_ac: because someone wanted to try it, or do dev work?
[21:13] <ogra_ac> well, as i said, it will be a lot of manual work anyway atm
[21:13] <GrueMaster> dmesg
[21:13] <GrueMaster> wrong window (again)
[21:13] <ogra_ac> NCommander, so what we could try is to do piecemeal updates of the bits that end up in intramfs
[21:14] <ogra_ac> and rebuild the initrd after each updated package
[21:14] <ogra_ac> then we should see where it breaks
[21:15] <NCommander> ogra_ac: thinking about it right now. I think we're going to miss A1 though
[21:15] <ogra_ac> NCommander, if you dont feel like doing that i will do it tomorrow, its past 10pm here and i dont count on us making A1 anymore so i will soon stop working
[21:16] <NCommander> I'm just mentally thinking
[21:16] <ogra_ac> but i think piecemeal upgrade step by step is the best way to find the bad guy
[21:21] <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, btw, are you sure your monitor issue isnt something similar ? i.e. is the board still alive even without screen ?
[21:22]  * ogra_ac just sees that eglibc in maverick release isnt actually the one in natty
[21:23] <ogra_ac> the one in natty is the same as in -updates and one up from -security
[21:29] <GrueMaster> I reimaged on a faster SD card and haven't been able to reproduce that issue.
[21:29] <GrueMaster> The Sd card I had initial issues with was a class 2 4G (all I had available at the time).
[21:29] <GrueMaster> I'm currently running maverick with the latest proposed updates and other than getting lost during screensaver, it is working fine now.
[21:29] <GrueMaster> Unfortunately, my es2.1 is currently tied up with lmbench testing and NCommander has the other panda.
[21:29] <GrueMaster> I can try updating my XM image to see if I can get it to break.
[21:30] <ogra_ac> that would help too, given that linaro sees the issue with beagles
[21:32] <ogra_ac> if you find anything, dump it on the bug


[15:00] <bdmurray> o/
[15:00] <slyon> o/
[15:01] <juliank> o/
[15:01] <rbalint> o/
[15:01] <bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 14 15:01:38 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:01] <bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:01] <bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
[15:02] <bdmurray> sil2100 waveform doko mwhudson tdaitx infinity juliank bdmurray vorlon slyon xnox rbalint
[15:02] <bdmurray> sil2100 sent his status by email
[15:02] <bdmurray> waveform:
[15:02] <waveform> * Lots more work in uc20 boot issues...
[15:02] <waveform> * Investigated how NOOBS directs the pi's boot firmware to different partitions
[15:02] <waveform> * ... and whether Ubuntu can do this (yes, allegedly, but no successful replication yet)
[15:02] <waveform> * ... and whether u-boot can currently do this (no) or could do this (probably)
[15:02] <waveform> * Wrote up a fairly detailed description of the Pi's boot process; writing a full spec based on that (incomplete)
[15:02] <waveform> * Figured out what was broken in the prior u-boot merge; working on 2020.04 merge
[15:02] <waveform> (done)
[15:02] <bdmurray> doko:
[15:03] <bdmurray> lets skip him now
[15:03] <bdmurray> tdaitx sent in his by email
[15:03] <bdmurray> juliank: !
[15:04] <juliank> * sponsored python-apt SRUs for waveform (LP: #1311056)
[15:04] <juliank> * apt security update (LP: #1866113)
[15:04] <juliank> * migrating APT CI to use autopkgtest to test as-installed, instead of in-tree
[15:04] <juliank>   - the test for ^ passed on CI but failed on autopkgtest
[15:04] <juliank> I forgot what happened friday
[15:04] <juliank> (done)
[15:04] <doko> sorry, late
[15:04] <bdmurray> that's okay, ready now?
[15:04] <doko> - started looking into GCC test results:
[15:04] <doko>   - Fixed gnat testsuite not finding the shared libgnat_util under test
[15:04] <doko>   - Fixed the openmp related test failures in the g++ tests, turned out
[15:04] <doko>     a test setup issue with the offload compilers, requiring some packaging
[15:04] <doko>     changes.
[15:04] <doko>   - Reported gm2 test failures upstream.
[15:04] <doko>   - Fixed including the libstdc++ test results in the gcc-test-results package
[15:04] <doko>   - Include the jit test results
[15:04] <doko>   - Fixed two libphobos test failures
[15:04] <doko>   - Reported an issue with the amdgcn offload compiler upstream, requiring
[15:04] <doko>     a fix in LLVM and GCC.
[15:04] <doko> - binutils:
[15:04] <doko>   - Update from the 3.34 branch
[15:05] <doko>   - First try at packaging trunk/2.35.
[15:05] <doko> - Python 3.8.3 release, python3.8 and python3-stdlib-extensions uploads.
[15:05] <doko> - meetings about +1 maintenance
[15:05] <doko> (done)
[15:05] <juliank> CORRECTION: oops I linked the wrong security bug, it was LP: #1878177
[15:05] <bdmurray> updated meta-release files for 20.04 and groovy
[15:05] <bdmurray> review of bug reports re upgrades from 19.10
[15:05] <bdmurray> merged and uploaded groovy apport fix for LP: 1871185
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded focal SRU fix for the above
[15:05] <bdmurray> accidental investigation of LP: #1871800
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon to groovy fixing LP: #1700810
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon SRUs for the above to X, B, E, F
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded tzdata 2020a update for X, B, E, F, G
[15:05] <bdmurray> SRU verification of the above
[15:05] <bdmurray> prepared a tzdata 2020a update for T
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded a fix for LP: #1774843 to B, E, and G
[15:05] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:06] <bdmurray> vorlon:
[15:06] <vorlon>  * short week, was out Tuesday and half of Wednesday
[15:06] <vorlon>  * SRU work
[15:06] <vorlon>  * nudging proposed-migration along for the various archive opening transitions still in progress
[15:06] <vorlon>  * relatedly, discussions around restaffing +1 maintenance
[15:06] <vorlon>  * UC20 release discussions
[15:06] <vorlon> * discussing ssh environment bug LP: #1659719
[15:06] <vorlon> (done)
[15:07] <bdmurray> slyon:
[15:07] <slyon> == Distro ==
[15:07] <slyon> - Researched bug #1871801 and #1871800
[15:07] <slyon>   * Seems to be invalid.
[15:07] <slyon>   * English dpkg messages in the embedded terminal on purpose.
[15:07] <slyon>     (It has been that way since many years.)
[15:07] <slyon>   * Broken translation in UI/screenshot could not be reproduced.
[15:07] <slyon> - Researched bug #1876884
[15:07] <slyon>   * Related to dropbear-initramfs / initramfs-tools
[15:07] <slyon>   * Initramfs network config is not cleaned up propery, before booting
[15:07] <slyon>     into the real system.
[15:07] <slyon> - Fixed autopkgtests for python-httplib2 (again)
[15:07] <slyon>   * Now using upstream's non-deprecated test-suite
[15:07] <slyon>   * Debdiff awaiting review/sponsor:
[15:07] <slyon>     https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/T2vBYYjgpG/
[15:07] <slyon> == Netplan ==
[15:07] <slyon> - Prepared patch & SRU for bond mode regression: bug #1877643
[15:07] <slyon>   * Only affects Bionic series.
[15:07] <slyon>   * Pending in Unapproved queue.
[15:07] <slyon> - Researched & fixed bug #1874494
[15:07] <slyon>   * PR is merged upstream
[15:07] <slyon> - Researched & fixed bug #1817651
[15:07] <slyon>   * Reported by Juju guys in #server
[15:07] <slyon>   * PR#136 is awaiting review upstream
[15:07] <slyon> - Documented release version of new config keys
[15:07] <slyon>   * PR#137 is awaiting review upstream
[15:07] <slyon> - Initial review & feedback for PR#84
[15:08] <slyon>   * nm: support route attributes "from", "onlink", and "table"
[15:08] <slyon>     and "match.interface-name"
[15:08] <slyon>   * Brings NM/networkd feature parity for match/routes
[15:08] <slyon>   * Requires NetworkManager > 1.10 (bionic) for some parts
[15:08] <slyon> - Working on first feedback for NM netplan r/w plugin
[15:08] <slyon> (done)
[15:08] <bdmurray> xnox:
[15:08] <xnox> Subiquity reviews for cve / i18n
[15:08] <xnox> UC20 fun with fixing reported bugs from cert/qa
[15:08] <xnox> too much modules or not enough firmware
[15:08] <xnox> unmounting mounted things
[15:08] <xnox> subiquity netboot improvements
[15:08] <xnox> subiquity bootspeed improvements
[15:08] <xnox> pi package reviews
[15:08] <xnox> done
[15:08] <bdmurray> rbalint:
[15:09] <rbalint> (short week)
[15:09] <rbalint> * uploads via Debian: unattended-upgrades 2.4, meld 3.20.2-2
[15:09] <rbalint> * systemd 245.5-2ubuntu2
[15:09] <rbalint> * syncs: breezy-debian, ssmtp
[15:09] <rbalint> * partner work
[15:09] <rbalint> (don)
[15:09] <rbalint> e
[15:09] <bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:09] <bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:10] <bdmurray> sorting by importance ;-)
[15:10] <bdmurray> the first one I targetted this morning as we talked about it last week
[15:10] <bdmurray> the dbus one we said was desktop
[15:10] <bdmurray> bug 1877175 - doko what is the status of this?
[15:11] <doko> bdmurray: as documented in the bug, in progress.
[15:11] <bdmurray> bug 1875501 - does anybody remember budapest?
[15:11] <bdmurray> doko: should we have a card for it?
[15:11] <doko> gcc-10 is trying to build since May 7
[15:12] <doko> I'd like to avoid the overhead
[15:12] <bdmurray> okay as long as the changelog closes it! ;-)
[15:12] <doko> seriously, the bug was submitted after the upload
[15:14] <bdmurray> we'll target and card bug 1875501
[15:15] <bdmurray> bug 1860826
[15:15] <vorlon> card it
[15:16] <mclemenceau> ok
[15:16] <bdmurray> bug 1876182
[15:17] <rbalint> +1
[15:17] <bdmurray> Maybe have design look at it?
[15:17] <vorlon> seems like a reasonable bug to fix but not a high enough priority to warrant targeting
[15:18] <vorlon> I don't think I've ever read that text before in my life
[15:18] <bdmurray> tagged notfixing
[15:18] <bdmurray> bug 1862503
[15:24] <bdmurray> bug 1867542 - too many zsys snapshots?
[15:25] <vorlon> I think that needs to be assigned to the Desktop Team to look at; while there may be something that needs fixing in grub, having the list of snapshots grow without bounds is unreasonable
[15:25] <vorlon> so open a task on zsys?
[15:26] <bdmurray> are they subscribed to that?
[15:26] <bdmurray> oh, yes they are
[15:26] <bdmurray> vorlon: can you add a comment to that affect?
[15:26] <vorlon> also I think I saw sarnold report this bug somewhere else
[15:26] <vorlon> yeah
[15:27] <bdmurray> bug 1874287
[15:29] <xnox> we should take it
[15:29] <xnox> card it
[15:29] <bdmurray> xnox could you expand on what it means though?
[15:29] <xnox> bdmurray:  typing in the bug
[15:30] <bdmurray> bug 1874310
[15:33] <mclemenceau> carded
[15:33] <bdmurray> bug 1874714
[15:37] <bdmurray> bug 1876035 - julian have you seen this?
[15:38] <juliank> need to investigate
[15:39] <bdmurray> taking that one
[15:39] <bdmurray> bug 1877618
[15:46] <bdmurray> vorlon so that one doesn't seem worth carding
[15:47] <vorlon> bdmurray: agreed at this point
[15:48] <bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:48] <vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:48] <vorlon> juliank: apt-clone vs python-apt was yours from last week, did you look at it?
[15:48] <juliank> Unfortunately not
[15:48] <vorlon> will you look at it this week?
[15:48]  * doko has still to do the *-perl packages
[15:49] <juliank> I shall think so
[15:49] <vorlon> ok
[15:49] <vorlon> doko: yes; libmoox-struct-perl and its dependency MIR?
[15:49] <vorlon> doko: you'll do that this week?
[15:50] <doko> yes
[15:50] <vorlon> ok
[15:50] <doko> tomorrow
[15:50] <vorlon> pyyaml
[15:50] <bdmurray> xnox: you did add a ubiquity task to bug 1870408 but I'll close that in favor of jibel's bug
[15:51] <vorlon> this one needs some follow-through due to old versions of llvm that we can't get rid of from the archive, and they build binaries depending on the python2 bindings
[15:51] <xnox> bdmurray:  ack
[15:51] <vorlon> so who would like to take pyyaml
[15:51] <vorlon> xnox: ?
[15:51] <rbalint> i take pyyaml
[15:51] <vorlon> ok, rbalint, thanks!
[15:52] <vorlon> re2 is a lib transition with tentacles
[15:52] <vorlon> xnox can have that one
[15:52] <xnox> thanks....
[15:53] <bdmurray> vim looks like a timeout
[15:53] <vorlon> vim is missing build on riscv64 and cyrus-imapd autopkgtest regression; I'll have a look
[15:53] <waveform> gallery-dl on requests could be a timeout on armhf - not sure
[15:54] <doko> w grant changed the riscv64 buildds, might be worth a retry first
[15:54] <vorlon> requests, autopkgtest regression: waveform you can look into this
[15:54] <waveform> will do
[15:55] <vorlon> libxcrypt: reproducible autopkgtest regression, could be flakiness but it's very flaky
[15:55] <vorlon> bdmurray: ^^ ?
[15:56] <bdmurray> vorlon: okay
[15:56] <vorlon> sphinx needs libjs-mathjax promoted, so that's probably a real MIR
[15:57] <vorlon> slyon: would you like to learn the MIR process this week?
[15:57] <slyon> vorlon, yes
[15:57] <vorlon> slyon: thanks :)
[15:57] <slyon> will look into it
[15:58] <vorlon> libyaml-libyaml-perl, (real) autopkgtest regressions
[15:58] <vorlon> rbalint: ^^ would you like another?
[15:58] <rbalint> vorlon, sure, taking
[15:58] <vorlon> apt-clone, probably shakes out from juliank's investigation vs python-apt
[15:58] <vorlon> libre-engine-re2-perl, tied to re2
[15:59] <xnox> ack
[15:59] <vorlon> libgd2, autopkgtest regressions, I'll look
[15:59] <vorlon> numpy: mclemenceau: would you like this?
[15:59] <mclemenceau> I will give it a shot
[16:00] <vorlon> gcc-10, already discussed
[16:00] <vorlon> and libberkeleydb-perl, looks like i386 binary cleanup, I'll follow through
[16:00] <vorlon> and done
[16:00] <vorlon> bdmurray:
[16:00] <bdmurray> #topic AOB
[16:01] <bdmurray> okay let's wrap then since we are over
[16:01] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[16:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 14 16:01:19 2020 UTC.
[16:01] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-14-15.01.moin.txt
[16:01] <bdmurray> Thanks everyone!
[16:01] <rbalint> o/
[16:01] <slyon> o/
[16:01] <mclemenceau> o/
[16:01] <juliank> o&
[16:01] <juliank> o/
[16:02]  * juliank is in us layout atm
[16:02] <vorlon> thanks!
[16:02] <xnox> tah
[16:03] <rbalint> juliank, oß


[02:27] <Len_> Greetings, all, and Happy New Year
[02:27] <crimsun> (same to you & yours)
[02:28] <Len_> I have a problem that I am hoping to get some direction on
[02:28] <Len_> I loaded 8.10 on my daughters older computer, dual boot with Win98 SP2
[02:28] <Len_> Booting into Ubuntu is not a problem, but when she uses Pidgen, Pidgen fails
[02:29] <Len_> She can chat a couple of times (Yahoo Messenger), and then the program simply locks up
[02:29] <Len_> Has anyone else experienced the same thing?
[02:30] <crimsun> Len_: i think you will want to redirect that question to #ubuntu
[02:30] <Len_> Ok..  .
[02:53] <Lupine> Can someone update this bug to a WishList? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/311303
[02:54] <crimsun> Lupine: done
[02:55] <Lupine> crimsun, thx!  you are always on the top of things, have a great new year.
[02:56] <crimsun> Lupine: same to you & yours
[04:40] <franklin> my bluetooth head-phone not voice
[04:41] <franklin> hello
[04:51] <crimsun> franklin: please ask in #ubuntu-tw
[05:53] <Arenlor> Can anyone give me some help on what I should do? I mainly want to help checking for duplicates and expiring reports, but don't know how/what to do.
[05:55] <maco> Arenlor: i find it easiest to find duplicates by just reading a lot of bugs. like i would read the new bugs as they come in, and sometimes youll see someone reporting two bugs in a row of the same thing. or you'll see one that you know you saw the day before...things like that
[05:56] <crimsun> or you can do a simple string search on "[apport]"
[05:57] <maco> oh gosh yeah...apport bugs get duped a lot
[06:03] <Arenlor> I love Ubuntu's bug #1
[12:53] <savvas> happy new year everyone :)
[12:54] <savvas> can someone suggest whether I should open a new bug about the last two comments in: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/+bug/188468
[12:54] <savvas> The icon file is there, it's a matter of "Categories=" change
[12:55] <savvas> * I mean the .desktop file for the Applications > Internet entry
[14:14] <thekorn> savvas, I think there is no need to file a new bugreport, you cahnged the status back to confirmed, so this bug is on the radar again
[14:18] <savvas> ah cool, hehe
[14:18] <savvas> thanks :)
[19:12] <Rocket2DMn> there are like 20 dups of bug 312942
[19:12] <Rocket2DMn> whats going on with that
[19:18] <Rocket2DMn> that user seems to have a number of test bugs
[19:20] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: He was working on finding a fix for a bug in requestsync.
[19:21] <Rocket2DMn> righto
[19:21] <Rocket2DMn> im not gonna touch those bugs
[19:21] <nhandler> The bug causes ~5 duplicate bugs to be opened
[19:23] <Rocket2DMn> thx nhandler
[19:24] <nhandler> np Rocket2DMn
[21:12] <kylezoa> Bug #312959 send over to wishlist please and happy new year to all!
[21:16] <Ryan52> kylezoa: done, thanks and hny!


[03:20] <Curly> Any one here?
[03:26] <Bashing-om> Curly: Maybe ask the experts: #ubuntustudio  channel.
[03:27] <Curly> Bashing-om   Greetings!
[03:27] <Bashing-om> Curly: :D Still here even after all these years.
[03:27] <Curly> I didn't know there was a musicians on IRC.
[03:28] <Curly> Nice to meet you.
[03:28] <Curly> Are you a musician?
[03:29] <Bashing-om> Curly: Closest I come is the volume on the stereo :P
[03:29] <Curly> All these years, it sounds like you are the sherrif of the channel. Hey that is cool.
[03:29] <Curly> Stereo, there are two of you. That must be an interesting thing. :)
[03:30] <Curly> I am just funning.   How are you my friend?
[03:30] <Curly> I was just passing by the IRC neighborhood these days.
[03:31] <Curly> There are so many IRC channels and Xubuntu is just a tiny little space in the woodwork of telecommunications.
[03:31] <Bashing-om> Curly: Well - I generally try to be friendly - less friction that way :D
[03:32] <Curly> Bashing, that is a good attitude. Keep up the good spirit.
[03:33] <Curly> Bashing-om you remind me of Festus Hagun on Gun-Smoke. He was cool.
[03:33] <Curly> What version of Xubuntu are you using?
[03:34] <Bashing-om> Curly: Uh Huh - he was a favorite charcater of mine also.
[03:34] <Curly> :)
[03:35] <Curly> I like Festus Hagan, if you listen to his reasoning it is confounding. He was quite of a guy.
[03:35] <Curly> Miss Kitty was cool.
[03:35] <Bashing-om> Curly: "Now Matt, you know that ain't going to work" :P
[03:35] <Curly> :)
[03:36] <Curly> Matt Dillon was a cool guy.
[03:36] <Curly> He had all of the answers.
[03:36] <Bashing-om> Curly: Golden days of TV - long before xubuntu and so many commercials.
[03:36] <Curly> Bashing are you a regular on this Channle?
[03:37] <Curly> Yeah!  True.
[03:37] <Unit193> Hmm, this seems to have drifted a bit from Xubuntu support, perhaps a social channel would be better to continue this discussion?
[03:37] <Curly> I have seen almost all of Gunsmoke episodes.
[03:38] <Bashing-om> Curly: Yeah - amongts a bunch of others here on freenode.
[03:38] <Curly> I have been on Freenode many times.
[03:39] <Curly> I have met many good people.
[03:39] <Bashing-om> Curly: I have noted that you are apt in support here :)
[03:40] <Curly> Well, I don't own this channel. I found this channel by accident.  I just do what I do. I try to help people who need help.
[03:41] <Curly> If I am not welcomed here, I can leave.
[03:41] <Bashing-om> Curly: How long have you used 'buntu as operating system of choice ? Got some free time to donate ?
[03:41] <Curly> Ubuntu I have been using Linux which Ubunit is  a UNICES distro. For almost 25 years.
[03:42] <Curly> Ubuntu is of the UNIX family.
[03:43] <Bashing-om> Curly: Well me - old as dirt - been open source since the early 70's.
[03:44] <Curly> I remember a friend from the IRC he called himself: "Papajohn", he used the expression on his part messages that he was: "Older than dirt." Funny you should say that.
[03:44] <Curly> Papajohn, was a nice person.
[03:44] <Curly> I miss him.
[03:45] <Curly> His friend was:   Tid-bit
[03:45] <Curly> Tid-bit was in a hospital bed for years and he made friend on the IRC with me and others.
[03:45] <Bashing-om> Curly: Can't say I have ran across them :(
[03:45] <Curly> I don't know what happened to him.
[03:46] <Curly> That was about 20 years ago.
[03:46] <Curly> I have met so many people on the IRC.
[03:47] <Curly> Bashing nice to meet you.
[03:47] <Curly> I am sure you have seen me talk with others here.
[03:48] <Bashing-om> Curly: My pleasure also. You in the venue to contribute to the ubuntu effort ?
[03:48] <Curly> Whatever that means, but I thank you. :)
[03:50] <Bashing-om> Curly: Above you said you are a "techinical writer" - Ubuntu News Letter could sure use your expertise.
[03:50] <Curly> From what I have seen here, there are a lot of people who want to learn Ubuntu.   Ubuntu is a UNIX-like kernel. UNIX is an expensive and eclective OS. UBUNTU is a free distribution which is again free and I applaud those who use it.
[03:51] <Curly> Bashing, if you remember that, yes, I am a Technical Writer. I have 5 Masters Degrees. I don't like to brag about it.
[03:52] <Bashing-om> Curly: I came to ubuntu from a SlackWare server - when I took the server down and went desktop - ubuntu documentation won me over.
[03:52] <Curly> Slackware is from what I remember?     They just don't keep up on the latest news on Linux.
[03:53] <Bashing-om> Curly: After fighting with SlackWare - ubuntu was a breath of fresh air :)
[03:54] <Curly> Bashing the documentation is not what you should look for. Talk with those who have insight and those who have experience using UBUNTU and Xubuntu and learn that way by experience.
[03:55] <Curly> I can tell you stories about how so many people have struggled with Linux and Ubuntu now it is called Xubuntu. It doesn't change.
[03:56] <Curly> Bashing are you a regular on this Channel?
[03:56] <Curly> Nice to meet you Bashing.
[03:58] <Curly> My first experience was Red Hat 6   <--------<  People laugh at me but I learned a lot from that installation.
[03:59] <Curly> I fixed a person's computer and he gave me a Red Hat 6 disk and I learned Lunux from that. I was just a beginner then.
[04:01] <Curly> Where are you from Bashing?   I am from Massachussetts   USA.
[04:01] <Bashing-om> Curly: Arkansas Ridge runner here :P
[04:02] <Curly> Arkansas, nice.
[04:03] <Curly> I always wondered why the   s      was at the end of Arkansas    which is silent.
[04:04] <Curly> Othewise it would be   Arkansasssss
[04:04] <Bashing-om> Curly: Has to do with Are Kansas ? back when the states were formed .. maybe an indigenous name ?
[04:05] <Curly> I suppose you could add a few more sss'
[04:05] <Curly> Bashing what version or distro are you using/
[04:05] <Curly> ?
[04:06] <Bashing-om> Curly: My daily is a roll_my_own from the 18.04 repo.
[04:06] <Curly> I am using 18.04 LTS but I tried the latest version and it has problems. So This version is a stable version and works well.
[04:08] <Curly> I can tell you from a Technical viewpoint, anytime you use something new there will invariably be issues and then people revert back to the verion that really works so use the version that works safely.
[04:10] <Bashing-om> Curly: Just a tool - use what works best for your use case :P
[04:10] <Curly> I agree.
[04:11] <Curly> Bashing what do you do for a living? Do you use Xubuntu as a hobbie?
[04:12] <Curly> I eat, drink, sleep, operate, program computers. I live for it because it put bread & butter on my table and put money in my pocket. But, that is not the reason why I use computers. I have been using computers since I was a kid.
[04:13] <Bashing-om> Curly: Retired now - and yeah xubuntu keeps me occupied - Communications networks controller.
[04:13] <Curly> Controller of what?
[04:14] <Bashing-om> Curly: Traffic management - fault isolation and restoral :D
[04:14] <Curly> Bashing I have 5 Masters Degrees in communications. My Resume would fill up the screen.
[04:15] <Curly> Traffic management, never heard of it. Please explain?
[04:16] <Curly> Communications traffic?
[04:16] <Bashing-om> Curly: Watching the load on the circuits and bringing up or down routes as required.
[04:17] <Curly> So you are a Systems Manager watching the traffic. It reminds me of    Wireshark  <------<   I know about that stuff too. :)
[04:17] <Curly> Have you used:   Wireshark?
[04:19] <Bashing-om> Curly: Management is all about the money - I have used wireshark a bit or so, yeah - but I find the exact tool to tell me what I need to know.
[04:20] <Curly> Wireshark is a   Port Sniffer or Port Monitor. It looks at the data packets and analyzes the traffic.
[04:21] <Bashing-om> Curly: Nice yakking with you but my getting off time - see ya later :D
[04:22] <Curly> It is a prolific waste of time and money but it works well and if you like being a sneek that is the software. But, the caveat is you need to be at the port accesss to use it.   See you anon.
[04:38] <Curly> Sudo apt-get moo     I    likke    the little   cow.
[04:39] <Curly>                  (__)
[04:39] <Curly>                  (oo)
[04:39] <Curly>            /------\/
[04:39] <Curly>           / |    ||
[04:39] <Curly>          *  /\---/\
[04:39] <Curly>             ~~   ~~
[04:40] <Curly> 7 lines of text
[04:41] <Curly> ASCII is not allowed on this channel. Sorry to see that.
[04:42] <Unit193> This is a support channel, of course it's not the right channel for asciiart...
[04:42] <Curly> Unit193  thanks for that edification.
[04:43] <Curly> I will curb my intelligence on this channel.
[04:45] <Unit193> ...That's....not really the point, just a technical support channel isn't really the place for asciiart...  Alis (/msg alis help list) might know of channels, I've been in a couple in the past.
[04:46] <Curly> Unit193  thanks for the advice.
[04:46] <Unit193> Sure thing.
[04:47] <Curly> Where are you from Unit193?
[04:47] <Curly> I showed where I am from Massachussetts USA
[04:48] <Curly> You seem to be a technical advisor on this channel.
[04:49] <Unit193> Just trying to keep it on topic, so if people don't have much time on their hands they can quickly glance in to see if anyone needs help, is all.  If you'd like a channel more geard towards chat, there's also #xubuntu-offtopic. :)
[04:50] <Curly> Unit193, I seem to be always off-toppic. It is net deliberate, but, some things are blatent and outspoken and so evident to make a comment. There is nothing wroing with that. I hope not.
[04:53] <Curly> Unit193 being a human being is not a sin.  I work at being an obliging good decent human being, but there are and will always be people who abhore those who adhere to a righteious way of life.
[04:53] <housecat> it's not hard to stay on topic
[04:53] <housecat> it's a support channel
[04:53] <housecat> stick to support
[04:54] <housecat> ez
[04:54] <Curly> I am support.  I have so many credentials. It would be a crime to take support fom others.
[04:55] <Curly> Nevertheless, I will back off and sit in the side and let everyone fence for themselves.
[04:56] <Curly> Thank you for your attention.
[08:21] <v1adimir> "Thank you for your cooperation" Bzz-zzt *Puts gun away into leg compartment*
[09:35] <mr> Does anyone have an idea why my Xubuntu installation automatically updated its kernel from the ..-generic to 5.3.0-1026-gke? My college has the same installation and is currently on 5.3.0-59-generic. It seems to cause alot of problems on my system (vpn, video driver and audio stopped working)
[09:39] <pmjdebruijn> mr: are you still on 19.10?
[09:39] <pmjdebruijn> dpkg -l linux-gke
[09:39] <pmjdebruijn> what does taht say
[09:40] <mr> I'm on 18.04. I need to use the Xilinx Environment which does not work on newer versions
[09:41] <mr> Also: dpkg-query: no packages found matching linux-gke
[09:42] <pmjdebruijn> what does 'dpkg -l | grep gke' say?
[09:42] <pmjdebruijn> it's doubtful your xubuntu install automatically updated the kernel
[09:42] <mr> ii  linux-gke-5.3-headers-5.3.0-1026                            5.3.0-1026.28~18.04.1                                       amd64        Header files related to Linux kernel version 5.3.0ii  linux-headers-5.3.0-1026-gke                                5.3.0-1026.28~18.04.1                                       amd64        Linux kernel headers for
[09:42] <mr> version 5.3.0 on 64 bit x86 SMPii  linux-image-5.3.0-1026-gke                                  5.3.0-1026.28~18.04.1                                       amd64        Signed kernel image GKEii  linux-image-gke-5.3                                         <IP_ADDRESS>6.13                                               amd64        Google Container
[09:42] <mr> Engine (GKE) Linux kernel imageii  linux-modules-5.3.0-1026-gke                                5.3.0-1026.28~18.04.1                                       amd64        Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.3.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
[09:42] <pmjdebruijn> mostly likely you installed something that has a dependance
[09:43] <pmjdebruijn> apt-get purge linux-gke-5.3-headers-5.3.0-1026 linux-image-5.3.0-1026-gke linux-modules-5.3.0-1026-gke
[09:43] <pmjdebruijn> does that tell you anything else would be removed?
[09:45] <mr> Yes, Wireguard, the VPN client
[09:45] <pmjdebruijn> well, that why you're getting the gke kernel then
[09:45] <pmjdebruijn> most like apt told you it would install the gke kernel when you install wireguard
[09:45] <pmjdebruijn> likely*
[09:46] <pmjdebruijn> so xubuntu didn't automatically install anything really
[09:46] <pmjdebruijn> just regular dependancy handling
[09:46] <mr> But my colleague uses Wireguard too, and is on 5.3.0-59-generic
[09:46] <pmjdebruijn> 18.04 doesn't even have wireguard in the official repos
[09:46] <pmjdebruijn> so presumably you added a ppa for that
[09:46] <mr> Yes
[09:47] <pmjdebruijn> mr: I don't recall saying it couldn't work
[09:47] <mr> The thing is we both did the exact same thing there
[09:47] <pmjdebruijn> may he didn't reboot just yet?
[09:47] <pmjdebruijn> new kernel installs only take ffect after reboot
[09:47] <mr> We did this over 2 months ago
[09:47] <pmjdebruijn> also, do apt-cache show wireguard | grep -i gke
[09:48] <pmjdebruijn> maybe it's just a recommends, not a depends
[09:48] <pmjdebruijn> oh wait, but then purge wouldn't remove it
[09:48] <pmjdebruijn> to be honest, I'd just use openvpn
[09:48] <pmjdebruijn> as opposed to use some ppa, that installs third party kernel modules
[09:48] <mr> Afaik I don't really have a choice there
[09:48] <pmjdebruijn> generally speaking whenever stuff installs kernel modules, you should be weary
[09:49] <pmjdebruijn> someone's forcing wireguard onto you?
[09:49] <mr> Well the employer
[09:49] <pmjdebruijn> lol
[09:49] <pmjdebruijn> wireguard is barely out of beta
[09:49] <pmjdebruijn> it's only just mainlined
[09:49] <Unit193> I mean it's in mainline released kernels, soo.
[09:49] <pmjdebruijn> 20.04 actually had a backport the code
[09:50] <pmjdebruijn> Unit193: only just now
[09:50] <pmjdebruijn> using wireguard basically means you're going to have a terrible time connecting with anything that isn't super-current
[09:50] <pmjdebruijn> which is a rather stupid business decision
[09:50] <pmjdebruijn> wireguard will be awesome in a year or two
[09:50] <pmjdebruijn> when it's semi universally supported
[09:51] <pmjdebruijn> anyhow
[09:51] <pmjdebruijn> mr: during bootup you can select a different kernel from grub though
[09:51] <pmjdebruijn> mr: are you using the official wireguard ppa?
[09:52] <mr> Yes
[09:52] <pmjdebruijn> https://launchpad.net/~wireguard/+archive/ubuntu/wireguard presumably that one?
[09:52] <pmjdebruijn> you may want to contact the team
[09:52] <pmjdebruijn> having a hard dependancy on the gke may be not intentional?
[09:53] <mr> Yes i use that one. Maybe.
[09:53] <pmjdebruijn> maybe?
[09:53] <pmjdebruijn> grep wireguard /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
[09:53] <Unit193> (It doesn't have a hard dep on gke)
[09:53] <mr> Whether its intentional
[09:53] <mr> I added the ppa
[09:53] <mr> No maybe there
[09:53] <pmjdebruijn> mr: put 'apt-cache show wireguard ' on pastebin
[09:55] <mr> https://pastebin.com/raw/JwYXz6yz
[09:56] <pmjdebruijn> huh
[09:56] <pmjdebruijn> then why would purgeing the gke packages, also remove wireguard?
[09:57] <pmjdebruijn> same for apt-cache show wireguard-dkms wireguard-tools and wireguard-modules
[09:57] <pmjdebruijn> see how that's linked together
[09:57] <Unit193> wireguard depends on either the dkms module, or a kernel that has support for wireguard.  Certain HWE kernels do.
[09:57] <pmjdebruijn> just a matter of following the breadcrumps
[10:03] <rhode> Can i ask the group here. I have been looking at my HW stack here at home, and that have brought me to thinking about the "arms-race" for updating that many of us do (gear-lust). However how much do we actually need ?   E.G. how much RAM are you guys using in your system, and are you hitting the limits of that ?
[10:03] <rhode> Mostly asking people using the machine for normal things - not Video/YT creators, or people running multiple simultanious VM's - just ordinary user. Would 8 GB be limiting for you in any way ?
[10:07] <mr> So is it reasonable to assume the package wireguard-dkms could be used instead of that kernel?
[10:08] <mr> Also is there an easy way to "fix" my setup (installing a ..-generic kernel and the wireguard package instead)?
[10:09] <Unit193> Provided a kernel doesn't have 'privides: wireguard-modules', yeah -dkms is the next best thing.
[10:09] <Unit193> Perhaps  apt install linux-generic wireguard-dkms?
[10:13] <pmjdebruijn> Unit193: presumably mr still has linux-generic
[10:15] <Curly> https://blog.linuxserver.io/2019/11/24/connect-an-ubuntu-client-to-opnsense-wireguard-tunnel-with-a-gui-toggle-in-gnome/
[10:16] <mr> Ok, thanks pmjdebruijn
[10:21] <Unit193> Hrm, are focal HWE kernels out for Bionic at this time?
[10:21] <pmjdebruijn> nope
[10:22] <Unit193> Bummer, would have to use dkms then.
[10:22] <pmjdebruijn> there's a 3 month delay
[10:22] <pmjdebruijn> remember
[10:22] <pmjdebruijn> which is exactly why I find it baffling people are using wireguard in business already
[10:22] <pmjdebruijn> it's bizarre
[10:22] <Unit193> Aka "They come with the first point release"
[10:23] <pmjdebruijn> it's funny how easy some people are pulled into the hype train
[10:24] <Unit193> I think calling it 'hype' is a bit overboard, but meh.
[10:26] <pmjdebruijn> hype does not imply the technology is not valid or has benefits
[10:26] <pmjdebruijn> hype means are disproportionally motivated to get benefits they usually don't need as badly as they really do
[10:27] <pmjdebruijn> the main case where openvpn really falls short is high bandwidth links
[10:27] <pmjdebruijn> so that's usually not a thing for client vpns
[10:28] <Curly> Pmjdebruijn  <----------------<   That is not a nickname. What are you?
[10:30] <pmjdebruijn> huh?
[10:30] <Curly> Good morning fellow.
[10:39] <Curly> PM why is wireguard so important?
[10:41] <Curly> A good firewall makes all of the difference.
[10:42] <pmjdebruijn> huh? that's nonsensical
[10:42] <Curly> What is more a good network Adninistrator is key in stopping problems.
[10:43] <pmjdebruijn> well, sure, but those are rather general statements
[10:43] <Curly> I suppose breathing is non-sensical
[10:43] <pmjdebruijn> my point being, a firewall doesn't solve any issues a vpn help you with
[10:44] <Curly> If you use VPN, that solves lots of problems.
[10:45] <Curly> Virtual Private Networking is a nice tool of the trade.
[10:45] <pmjdebruijn> that's another very generic statement
[10:46] <Curly> VPN is good for what it is.  Man a good cup of coffee would be right about now.
[10:52] <Curly> Where are you from? I am from Massachusetts USA.
[10:54] <Curly> I always wondered why Massachusetts was such a big word. I should study upon it  ;)]
[10:55] <Curly> PM with a good password protected system, there is not break-in.
[10:56] <Curly> Also a good firewall protection.
[17:26] <Noboru55> hello
[17:27] <xu-irc74w> hello
[17:27] <Noboru55> i am running google chrome, and i run firefox to open e-mails..
[17:27] <Noboru55> but firefox is so.... slow.. and.. its impossible to runs it
[17:28] <Noboru55> i tried let open thunderbird but it uses more cpu and ram than a browser
[17:28] <xu-irc74w> pls fix super + space to change language, it makes me want to go to the attic, take a rope and commit to making various knots
[17:29] <Noboru55> so i was thinking about... only sometimes open thunderbird or...  discover a new light browser
[17:30] <Noboru55> why 2 browsers, in one i browse bettween sites, the other i use only for emails
[17:30] <xu-irc74w> did you try vivaldi?
[17:31] <Noboru55> maybe i could.... use emails in google chrome and browse using chromium
[17:31] <Noboru55> i did not
[17:31] <xu-irc74w> should
[17:31] <Noboru55> ok.. i think i will do it
[17:32] <Noboru55> now about the super key.... its something i would like to know
[17:32] <Noboru55> for example, i set the super to open the xfce-menu
[17:32] <Noboru55> but if i type super+otherkey
[17:32] <Noboru55> i cant get the shortcut, because the xfce-menu opens
[17:33] <Noboru55> did you understand?
[17:35] <xu-irc74w> in keybord layout one can set up the shortcut to switch languages
[17:35] <xu-irc74w> I need it alot
[17:36] <xu-irc74w> so there is an option to set super + space like in windows, but it does not work properly, it does not rotate
[17:36] <xu-irc74w> you switch 3 times or how many languages you had set up and it stops
[17:38] <Noboru55> i dont't see the shortcut u said
[17:39] <Noboru55> super+space
[17:40] <Noboru55> ah, u want to configure that
[17:43] <Noboru55> xu-irc74w in keyboard options TAB "disposition" the last one...  (here is not in english)
[17:44] <Noboru55> if u uncheck use the default system... the options below it appears shortcut
[17:44] <Noboru55> to change between layouts.. u can modify
[18:15] <Noboru55> hello
[18:16] <Noboru55> where is the guy with problem on layout keyboards?
[18:24] <Noboru55> hello
[18:27] <Noboru55> hi
[18:29] <kgb> o/
[18:29] <kgb> dunno, not a clue! :P:D
[18:30] <Noboru55> my problem is about the shortcut Super
[18:30] <Noboru55> here super opens the xfce menu
[18:30] <Noboru55> but.... if i try to use Super+anyKey to other shortcut
[18:30] <Noboru55> the menu opens too
[18:30] <Noboru55> :(
[20:34] <linux_n> Does xubuntu 20.04 come with snap by default?
[20:34] <Curly> Noboru55  are you still having problems with your keyboard issues?
[20:37] <Curly> Keyboard issues has to do with    <   Intstallation issues   > When you install Ubuntu, it asks what your keyboard-type is.
[20:38] <Curly> This could be a fluke in the installation process.
[20:44] <brainwash> linux_n: you can show installed snap packages with "snap list"
[20:45] <brainwash> and yes, the snap package manager is installed by default
[20:46] <linux_n> Thanks brainwash
[21:38] <Curly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)
[21:38] <Curly> https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/snap-package-manager-on-ubuntu/
[21:41] <Curly> People keep forgetting that Xubuntu is Ubuntu.
[22:17] <Noboru55> hello
[22:17] <Noboru55> how can i install chromium browser without snap?
[22:18] <Noboru55> :)
[22:59] <Curly> 113,000 people have died from Corona Virus.
[23:01] <Curly> My kid brother died from Corona-19 virus.
[23:12] <n-iCe> sad to read
[23:12] <n-iCe> im sorry
[23:59] <Curly> Thanks n-iCe.  I eat healthy foods and keep up with good exercise and  that virus is on a rampage. Keep social distancing and wear those masks and pray that you live another day.


[06:36] <guiverc2> 19.10 live ; what is the user/password (suspend test & my session is locked!)
[06:49] <OvenWerks> I don't remember the user something_user don't remeber what but there should be no password
[06:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^?
[06:52] <OvenWerks> it looks like it is just ubuntu-studio for the user
[06:53] <guiverc2> :)   for some reason i got logged out again, but i'm back in.. thank you !
[06:55]  * OvenWerks is off to bed... 2355 here
[08:28] <guiverc2> whilst I'm here, a review 17 days ago on mewe (Che Dean) stated "Really loving Ubuntu Studio, it's fantastic for creative types. Not sure what they do with audio but recordings sound amazing. Well worth checking out if you have an older laptop lying around. It's very light weight because it uses the XFCE desktop environment"
[19:41] <studio-user207> i use live dvd installation of ubuntu studio 18.04 but when i choose install it enters me in try mode
[19:48] <m_ad[m]> Then install it from there. :)
[19:48] <m_ad[m]> -_-


[02:02] <aeden__D> what happened to the tn local ubuntu forum thread. did it just die out/
[02:25] <cyberanger> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=259