[12:00] <jdub> oh
[12:00] <jdub> wow
[12:00] <jdub> just
[12:00] <sabdfl> jdub: well so far
[12:00] <m_tthew> haha
[12:00] <edd> it'll be an interesting stress test for plone.
[12:00] <m_tthew> slashdot is my fault, only did that because someone suggested it in here :)
[12:01] <mako> m_tthew: it was inevitable :)
[12:01] <jdub> slashdot is good, was bound to happen anyway :)
[12:01] <lamont__> right.  off to fatter pipes.  bbiab
[12:01] <edd> it'll be a quick way to update the faq
[12:02] <jvw> It could be me... but from my POV, you're already slashdotted
[12:02] <koke> bad slashdot effect :( I keep with 5 seeds in my torrent download
[12:03] <zack> i was surprised to see the site using zope... now you pay for it ;)
[12:03] <dieman> hahaha
[12:03] <edd> lookin' that way from here too. zope's not the best for this unless frontended with a caching proxy.
[12:03] <jvw> you didn't have a reverse squid on it?
[12:03] <m_tthew> slap a squid box in front of it
[12:03] <zack> edd: that would have helped
[12:03] <jdub> we even have a squid developer on team ;)
[12:04] <edd> hehe
[12:04] <jdub> i thought we had done that, too
[12:04] <koke> xD
[12:04] <sivang> so, how's warty going? :)
[12:04] <sivang> (back)
[12:04] <zack> hah! nice
[12:04] <dieman> heh
[12:04] <dieman> bittorrent is ++
[12:04] <dieman> my usage for i386 just jumped
[12:04] <koke> oh! I'm downloading the ppc one :(
[12:05] <m_tthew> the torrent seed I am running just leaped back up to saturation outbound
[12:05] <edd> ouch, i just did a HEAD on ubuntulinux.org... Pragma: no-cache
[12:05] <Jaye> Just read the LWN post about this distro. . . Awesome!  :)
[12:05] <j^> and apache should be set to have more threads running.
[12:06] <Jaye> The site is hammered though.  I just sent notice to my LUG, so that probably won't help much :|
[12:06] <koke>  /. should have his own caching system :)
[12:06] <jvw> dmirror.wolffelaar.nl ;)
[12:06] <koke> before sending websites to hell everydaty
[12:07] <xTina> That was a fast /.ing ;)
[12:07] <zack> i'm glad i was poking around the site about 2h ago, my squid's tummy is full :)
[12:07] <m_tthew> koke: in a perfect world the network would do all content distributing at the edge
[12:07] <Jaye> I just checked Linuxtoday, the release hasn't appeared there yet. .
[12:10] <zack> so is warty-i386.iso live or just a d-i disc?
[12:10] <sivang> zack : ?
[12:11] <sivang> mako : has it been so loud here since i left? :)
[12:11] <zack> sivang: the wiki mentions a livecd somwhere. wondering if this is it or not.
[12:11] <sivang> zack : livecd is based on morphix
[12:11] <jdub> zack: delayed a bit from the preview
[12:11] <jdub> zack: coming very soon :)
[12:11] <sivang> zack : at least the last one I tested
[12:12] <zack> i see
[12:12] <zack> i've only got one machine at home, i might not get a chance to play
[12:12] <sivang> zack : if you have a couple of spare gigs you can install from the hd installer CD
[12:12] <mako> sivang: it just got loud
[12:12] <mako> sivang: we just hit /.
[12:13] <alextreme> naturally it's based on morphix, i've been slapping em together :)
[12:13] <sivang> zack : ohhh
[12:13] <sivang> oops
[12:13] <sivang> mako : i see :)
[12:13] <alextreme> hey mako, things getting hectic in ubuntu land? :)
[12:13] <mako> alextreme: it's getting hot :)
[12:13] <Md> I see the torrents bandwith usage raising :-)
[12:13] <sivang> yeah!
[12:14] <edd> grmph. no icons on desktop in a fresh install. thought that'd been fixed.
[12:15] <jdub> edd: that is intentional. :-)
[12:15] <zack> ouch, that's not nice PR
[12:15] <edd> jdub: no dude, i mean the white paper ones.
[12:15] <jdub> edd: ... oh?!
[12:15] <edd> jdub: turns out i preserved /home
[12:15] <jdub> oh
[12:15] <edd> jdub: rather then starting completely over.
[12:15] <edd> still, worth noting in case other people do that.
[12:16] <seb128> jdub: the lists archives don't work ?
[12:16] <jdub> seb128: looking into it
[12:16] <zack> come to think of it a lot of debian-gnome's icon sets give me white paper all over the place
[12:17] <dieman> woot!
[12:17] <dieman> this laptop does S3!
[12:18] <dieman> and ftp.cs.umn.edu is serving 40 requests
[12:18] <dieman> i upped the max to 350
[12:18] <dieman> since we were only using like 200mb of memory at like 70 servers
[12:19] <sivang> edd : there supposed to be no icons on frsh install
[12:19] <edd> sivang: read back to what i said :)
[12:20] <sivang> edd : ;)
[12:20] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use ubuntu on ppc?
[12:21] <jdub> mxpxpod: yeah
[12:21] <mxpxpod> jdub: how well does it work?
[12:21] <koke> mxpxpod, I'm downloading it :)
[12:21] <seb128> jdub: are we going to have list archive soon ? lucas_ want to send a news about the preview with a link to the announce :)
[12:22] <mxpxpod> koke: hehe, I'll have to come back here tomorrow and ask you how it is :)
[12:22] <lamont__> 88up 21 down.  I guess that's better...
[12:22] <mxpxpod> is there a ppc live cd?
[12:22] <Nafai> If it works like regular Debian on PPC, it works great. :)
[12:23] <jdub> mxpxpod: it's rad.
[12:23] <xTina> mxpxpod: I'm already installing ;)
[12:23] <mxpxpod> jdub: I'd like to try it out before I just blow away my debian setup... is there a live cd for ppc?
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: <andred> Anything Jeff Waught is involved with has to be good. (seen on #gnome-debian)
[12:23] <whiprush> did you guys need web mirrors?
[12:24] <xTina> I didn't get DHCP to work during install though :(
[12:24] <mxpxpod> xTina: really?
[12:24] <seb128> that's weird
[12:24] <xTina> mxpxpod: "You don't seem to be connected to a network ..."
[12:24] <mxpxpod> oh crap... I gotta get home or my wife will kill me
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: haha. crack.
[12:24] <seb128> :)
[12:25] <m_tthew> xTina: you managed to burn the image with DiskUtility after all?
[12:25] <mxpxpod> I'll talk to you guys tomorrow!
[12:25] <xTina> m_tthew: No, I used cdrecord.
[12:25] <Nafai> jdub, edd, seb128, any others who might have been involved with Gnome 2.8, congrats on the release!
[12:25] <seb128> jdub: thanks for the archives, that works now :)
[12:25] <seb128> Nafai: thanks
[12:25] <jdub> seb128: wait a sec
[12:26] <jdub> going to break them again
[12:26] <Nafai> edd: heh. :)
[12:26] <dieman> yeah
[12:26] <xTina> m_tthew: I'll file a radar bug later, let's see what Apple thinks ;)
[12:26] <dieman> were pushing about 55mbps
[12:26] <edd> (and yeah, they rock!)
[12:26] <Nafai> edd: I enjoy reading your blog on planet gnome none-the-less
[12:26] <dieman> im guessing we're io-bound, older raid hw
[12:26] <dieman> wish it was setup as striped too
[12:26] <m_tthew> xTina: heh
[12:26] <xTina> m_tthew: And I'm planning to re-rip the CD once I'm done installing and test that.
[12:27] <m_tthew> xTina: I'm still waiting on the iso, unm mirror has slowed a bit :)
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: don't link yet
[12:27] <seb128> jdub: the url is going to change ?
[12:27] <jdub> yes
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: heh
[12:27] <jdub> maybe
[12:27] <jdub> hold on
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: thats me
[12:27] <xTina> But it's a really odd problems, I've burned hundreds of ISOs using DiskUtility and never had a prob ...
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: theres 73 people fighting over 55mbps
[12:28] <xTina> But it's definitely a DiskUtility bug in the first place, even if something should be wrong with the image, it's no reason to go crashing ...
[12:28] <azeem> gosh, the /. comments are really bad...
[12:28] <m_tthew> azeem: how unexpected
[12:29] <dieman> i wish i could push afull 100, but the box is only so fast :|
[12:29] <m_tthew> dieman: and you bounced my connection once, maybe during the thread increase restart? :)
[12:29] <dieman> m_tthew: yeah, sorry
[12:29] <dieman> not doing it again :)
[12:29] <m_tthew> dieman: :) wget -c is my friend
[12:29] <m_tthew> apachectl graceful :)
[12:29] <azeem> 30% "the website is down" 30% "who needs another distro?" 30% "What is this about, anyway?" 10% "D'oh"
[12:29] <dilinger> ugh, ubuntu made slashdot?  that would explain why the page is so damned slow :/
[12:30] <jdub> seb128: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-September/000000.html
[12:30] <Md> I don't see much traffic on the ISO mirror
[12:30] <seb128> jdub: thanks
[12:32] <sivang> anyway peopole, better go get some sleep, have some physical life. this has been a wonderful time :)
[12:32] <sivang> night everybody!
[12:32] <xTina> Could someone please paste the URL for the PPC iso image? I'd like to include that in the bug report but can't reach the site at the moment.
[12:32] <Kosai> Oh, it hit slashdot.  Cool.
[12:33] <sivang> mako : night
[12:33] <jblack> xtina: the torrent is here: http://ftp3.linux.it/pub/mirrors/warty/warty-power pc.iso.torrent
[12:33] <xTina> jblack: I need the URL for the original ISO for the bug report with Apple.
[12:33] <mdz> xTina: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/
[12:33] <xTina> mdz: Ah, thanks.
[12:34] <mdz> dieman: pushing 55mbps from where?
[12:34] <m_tthew> unm.edu, iirc
[12:34] <dieman> the ftp server here at umn
[12:34] <dieman> not new mexico, minnesota. :)
[12:34] <dieman> m_tthew: s/unm/umn/
[12:35] <m_tthew> I should just cut all my fingers off, I'm terrible today
[12:35] <zack> wouldn't that make you even worse tomorrow?
[12:35] <mako> mjg59: yes, my debian-legal stole my dfsg shirt just arrived :)
[12:36] <m_tthew> zack: good point, but it least I could talk about my golden, younger days.
[12:38] <zack> heh
[12:38] <zack> plenty of time for that
[12:39] <dieman> mako: haha
[12:45] <mjg59> mako: Rock
[12:46] <edd> time to get some sleep. but happy sleep with my new warty install :) thanks everyone.
[12:47] <daniels> night edd
[12:49] <kfish> morning
[12:50] <daniels> kfish: 'morning
[12:53] <jblack> I have a screenshot of Debian+Ubuntu, if you guys get any questions about how well ubuntu works with Debian.
[12:54] <Kosai> jblack: Sure, post an URL.
[12:54] <jblack> http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/MixingUbuntuAndDebian.png
[12:55] <jblack> (its an unusual resolution because of the dual-head display stuff I'm doing)
[12:58] <Puumba> I've made the request to have an ubuntu mirror set up at http://mirror.csociety.org/ (Purdue)
[12:59] <kfish> daniels, dmesg doesn't report a synaptics, but X was configured for it -- but there's no module installed for it
[12:59] <Puumba> I'll look into ftp.cerias.purdue.edu tomorrow, since they're an official Debian mirror.
[01:00] <andred> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fBounties <-- That GNOME BT GUI comment is on the wrong line, right?
[01:02] <azeem> mako: btw, did you get my mail about the canonical contact in Munich?
[01:02] <daniels> kfish: hmm, so that shouldn't be doing any harm
[01:02] <daniels> kfish: maybe it does all that in the hardware then, and you explicitly have to turn it off
[01:03] <kfish> daniels, any idea how?
[01:03] <koke> hmmm, bounties :P
[01:03] <daniels> no clue, sorry
[01:03] <kfish> ok :)
[01:05] <TheUbu> wtf
[01:06] <koke> bye :)
[01:06] <mdz> andred: fixed
[01:06] <koke> cu tomorrow
[01:06] <andred> mdz, thanks
[01:06] <TheUbu> you know
[01:06] <TheUbu> i dont know if i like the name
[01:07] <mdz> it grows on you
[01:07] <mako> azeem: yes.. this last week has been a little insane.. hopefully with the release out of the way i can catch up on email
[01:07] <mdz> ooobooontooo
[01:07] <mako> someone with a mic do a recording
[01:07] <mdz> andred: you aren't by any chance the same AndreD from FICS?
[01:07] <mako> i tried but my mic didn't work
[01:07] <dilinger> mdz: i hope you guys say it like that at company meetings and stuff
[01:07] <mdz> I have a truly shitty mic buried away somewhere
[01:08] <mdz> dilinger: oh yes.  there's a hand gesture too
[01:08] <Kosai> mdz: I think I saw someone from KGS here earlier.   I didn't know much more than what I've rean on n-n-y.com though, so the mail is probably highly incoherent...
[01:08] <TheUbu> because
[01:08] <azeem> eh, s/rean/read/
[01:08] <TheUbu> it is so close to my name
[01:08] <mdz> andred: (chess server)
[01:08] <TheUbu> it is really bad
[01:08] <TheUbu> i'm gonna bring up trademark infringement
[01:08] <jdub> haha
[01:09] <daniels> mdz: and a dance, even
[01:09] <TheUbu> i have technology trademarks on ubu ubie and ubix
[01:10] <mdz> mako: wasn't there a character named Ubu in that book you were reading?
[01:10] <TheUbu> there is a character ubu
[01:10] <TheUbu> king Ubu actually
[01:14] <TheUbu> so whats up?
[01:15] <m_tthew> is it OOOOboonto or ooBOONto or ooboonTOO
[01:16] <andred> I got to give it to you guys that ubuntu sounds really promising. Like a GNOMEified Debian, and by that I don't mean just the desktop choice, but the Just Works mentality applied to Debian.
[01:16] <khalek> ewboomtwo
[01:16] <TheUbu> i really can't believe their is an os with such a similar name...
[01:16] <TheUbu> this is shocking
[01:19] <mjg59> Haha
[01:19] <mjg59> You haven't made Osnews yet
[01:19] <TheUbu> ubuntu?
[01:19] <daniels> khalek: having our os name start with 'ew' isn't so great ;)
[01:20] <RockMuncher> I'm not sure I understand Ubuntu's "raison-d'tre", could someone enlighten me?
[01:20] <azeem> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121980&cid=10260789
[01:20] <Kosai> I think it's got something to do with python and shininess.
[01:21] <TheUbu> i'm gonna have to fork this to kill it
[01:21] <TheUbu> call it Ubunut
[01:21] <mdz> RockMuncher: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ has some starting points
[01:21] <mdz> andred: sounds like a compliment, thanks :-)
[01:22] <mdz> m_tthew: the second one (accent on the middle syllable)
[01:22] <mdz> we need to get a vorbis stream up
[01:23] <RockMuncher> mdz, that page doesn't give much information... nothing seems to set it apart from userlinux, mepis and co
[01:23] <dieman> 155 requests currently being processed, 26 idle workers
[01:23] <andred> My name is <someone> and I pronounce Ubuntu as <something>:-)
[01:23] <dieman> yeah, that machine is cookine
[01:23] <Puumba> This is Timon and Puumba, and we pronounce "ubuntu" as...
[01:23] <dieman> cooking
[01:23] <dieman> rather
[01:23] <TheUbu> how many ubu* operating systems can there be
[01:23] <m_tthew> I made an ogg, mdz can you tell me if I got it right
[01:23] <TheUbu> JUST 1 MINE
[01:24] <m_tthew> shit wait I did the wrong syllable
[01:24] <m_tthew> n/m
[01:25] <mdz> RockMuncher: that's a good idea; we should outline some of the comparisons and contrasts
[01:25] <mdz> m_tthew: that is approximately correct
[01:25] <defendguin> hmmm lots of people here already
[01:25] <TheUbu> unfortunately
[01:26] <defendguin> im curious as to the type of installer ubuntu uses
[01:26] <jdub> defendguin: it's a slicked-up debian-installer
[01:26] <TheUbu> don't people research names before they pick one?
[01:27] <Nafai> jdub: Text based or GTK?
[01:27] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:27] <mjg59> RockMuncher: It's got a larger number of people working on it than any other Debian-based distribution
[01:27] <jdub> Nafai: text
[01:27] <RockMuncher> I'm wondering what's the reason for Ubuntu's workforce to build their own distro instead of joining in on an existing project
[01:28] <mjg59> There's also the aim of working much more closely with Debian
[01:28] <jdub> RockMuncher: we're joining in on the debian project :-)
[01:28] <dieman> RockMuncher: changing debian within debian is hard.
[01:28] <mjg59> RockMuncher: Nobody outside Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle
[01:28] <dieman> RockMuncher: read the last three years of debian-devel. :)
[01:28] <mjg59> It's unlikely enough that anyone /inside/ Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle
[01:28] <RockMuncher> yeah, but I'm not talking about debian specifically
[01:29] <RockMuncher> some debian based distros are already trying to clean up its act
[01:29] <mjg59> So effectively it turns into "Why a new Debian-based distribution rather than working with a current one"
[01:29] <mjg59> Mepis, Xandros and Linspire all want to make money
[01:29] <mjg59> So they're not good starting points
[01:29] <mjg59> Userlinux involves Bruce Perens, which is a pretty good incentive to work separately
[01:30] <Puumba> jdub and others are involved - it has to rock
[01:30] <mjg59> (Note that this is all just my personal opinion - I'm not involved with Ubuntu)
[01:30] <dieman> (ditto, im not with ubuntu or canonical software)
[01:30] <dieman> (i just host a mirror server)
[01:30] <AndyFitz> in synaptic:\
[01:30] <AndyFitz> URI:  http://ftp.no-name-yet.comno-name-yet/
[01:30] <AndyFitz> Distribution: warty
[01:30] <AndyFitz> Section(S): universe
[01:31] <AndyFitz> doesn't seem to work
[01:31] <dieman> heh
[01:31] <mjg59> AndyFitz: The URI is wrong
[01:31] <elmo_> AndyFitz: you're missing a /
[01:31] <RockMuncher> so there isn't yet a (free) group which is working on debian the way you guys are?
[01:31] <elmo_> AndyFitz: and use http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu now
[01:31] <phlaegel> hm, just finished installing ubuntu, and it looks great so far. one question: shouldn't the smooth gtk2 engine be installed by default, since glider is in gnome-themes?
[01:31] <mjg59> RockMuncher: There is no entirely free Debian-based distribution that's intended as a general-purpose system and which doesn't have Bruce Perens, no
[01:32] <AndyFitz> :) too easy
[01:32] <azeem> mjg59: linex?
[01:32] <RockMuncher> lol, mjg59, Bruce Peren : is he that bad? :) (jus askin, I dunno)
[01:32] <jdub> RockMuncher: ubuntu is a free software project too, though
[01:33] <azeem> though entirely free debian-based distros tend to either merge with Debian or be forgotten I guess
[01:33] <mjg59> RockMuncher: I got on with him fine in person, and he may well be better than he was back in the Debian days, but he has a legendarily bad reputation for ease of cooperation
[01:33] <RockMuncher> jdub, yes I know. that's really cool
[01:34] <xTina> Hm. No DNS for me :(
[01:36] <defendguin> jdub, how slicked up?
[01:37] <RockMuncher> And how about Canonical Ltd? What's its mission statement/target group/source of revenue?
[01:37] <m_tthew> defendguin: from my installation experiences, just enough and not too much
[01:37] <arachne> hi
[01:37] <Gman> congrats on the release all
[01:38] <defendguin> its not graphical im guessing
[01:38] <Gman> looks very sexy
[01:38] <jdub> defendguin: simplified a fair bit, lots of performance improvments, etc. :-)
[01:38] <defendguin> decent hardware detection?
[01:38] <jdub> defendguin: no, the graphical installer will be coming in our second release
[01:38] <jdub> oh man
[01:38] <jdub> hardware detection is rad
[01:38] <jdub> especially autoconfiguration of X
[01:39] <defendguin> thats all i needed to hear
[01:39] <daniels> i hear the x detection is sensational
[01:39] <defendguin> :-D
[01:39] <AndyFitz> ubuntu is the most shiny debian distro  hehe  ;)
[01:39] <defendguin> AndyFitz, did you get them to include your icon theme?
[01:39] <AndyFitz> in the words of a poorly translated mario sunshine  " shine-get upgrade * "
[01:39] <arachne> what aboutknoppix ?
[01:39] <mdz> RockMuncher: www.canonical.com should answer the first question
[01:40] <jdub> defendguin: AndyFitz's theme is in progress (check out the Human icon theme after you install)
[01:40] <AndyFitz> defendguin: im doing a new one for ubuntu
[01:40] <defendguin> where does nice
[01:40] <defendguin> whoops
[01:40] <defendguin> what about nvidia driver for x?
[01:41] <defendguin> they have it in apt?
[01:41] <mdz> defendguin: apt-gettable
[01:41] <defendguin> good deal
[01:41] <mdz> both kernel and userland
[01:41] <Puumba> Is it possible that things like java and acroread could be put in either restricted or universe?
[01:41] <mdz> apt-cache search nvidia should get you what you need
[01:41] <RockMuncher> mdz, so revenue should stem from services? there's some tough competition going on there
[01:41] <Puumba> Maybe spice?
[01:41] <mdz> Puumba: java is a complicated issue due to its licensing
[01:41] <defendguin> AndyFitz, got any SS of the new theme?
[01:42] <mdz> it's more than just not open source
[01:42] <AndyFitz> i'll upload one now
[01:42] <mdz> RockMuncher: we do intend to provide services, yes
[01:42] <Puumba> mdz: Okay.  It seems that ubuntu is a little less zealous than Debian (e.g. inclusion of binary drivers)
[01:43] <mdz> Md: I inferred this from your comments on mailing lists :-)
[01:43] <Puumba> So I was curious about the policy about things such as java, etc.
[01:43] <mdz> Puumba: acroread may be a possibility; at one point it was distributed in Debian non-free
[01:43] <whiprush> time for ubuntu-legal.
[01:44] <mdz> I am not sure whether it was removed for licensing reasons or something else
[01:44] <Kosai> whiprush: That sounds like a great idea.   [Done] " -- Amen!
[01:47] <jdub> ;-)
[01:47] <n3x4> does ubuntu use .deb's ?
[01:47] <jdub> Md: yeah, so hopefully we'll be shipping gpdf by default in Hoary, with mozilla plugin goodness.
[01:47] <jdub> n3x4: yes!
[01:48] <n3x4> jdub: ok thanks
[01:48] <jdub> n3x4: ubuntu is based on debian sid
[01:48] <defendguin> ubuntu doesnt include x.org 6.8 does it?
[01:48] <Md> jdub: is it in gnome 2.8? I haven't seen it yet
[01:48] <AndyFitz> its xfree atm
[01:48] <azeem> will this be true for warty only, or will you resync with sid for the next release again?
[01:48] <AndyFitz> then x.org for next release i think
[01:49] <mdz> defendguin: not for the Warty release, but our development branch will be moving to x.org very very soon
[01:49] <sladen> defendguin: no, that will in in the next (April 2005) release
[01:49] <crimsun> sanitized XFree86 4_3 branch
[01:50] <jdub> Md: gpdf is in gnome 2.8, but isn't in ubuntu's main component - you can install it from universe
[01:50] <guestish> hi
[01:50] <jdub> azeem: in the next few weeks, our development branch will open, and all the debian sid love will flow into it :-)
[01:50] <guestish> so, whats the story w/ ubuntu? :)
[01:51] <azeem> jdub: rad
[01:51] <mdz> Puumba: re: DVD, xine is available in universe
[01:51] <Puumba> jdub: There are two main mirroring organization here at Purdue (csociety.org and cerias).  ftp.cerias.purdue.edu is an official debian mirror.  Would that be the preferred choice if we have to choose only 1?
[01:51] <jdub> azeem: it really is six monthly time based releases of sid :-)
[01:51] <guestish> does it use the debian repositories or its own?
[01:52] <mdz> Md: regarding patents, the universe is a big place...:-)
[01:52] <jdub> Puumba: hrm, probably a choice for the mirror maintainer
[01:52] <mdz> guestish: our own
[01:52] <guestish> mdz: how does it work?
[01:52] <Puumba> mdz: I'm not up-to-date on the css issues.
[01:53] <mdz> guestish: which part of it?
[01:53] <daniels> the current xfree86 4.3 packages have something like 250,000+ lines of patches applied
[01:53] <guestish> well, how do you get packages, how advanced is the installer? etc
[01:53] <mdz> guestish: we have our own infrastructure for building and distributing Ubuntu
[01:54] <whiprush> so this -devel branch, it'll be like sid for ubuntu then. does it have a cool nickname or just -devel?
[01:54] <mdz> guestish: you get packages using apt and its frontends, generally
[01:54] <guestish> mdz: and the packages dont come from debian?
[01:54] <Puumba> jdub: I've contacted both, but they may like to host mutually exclusive archives.  I'll wait and see how they respond.
[01:54] <mdz> guestish: much of the source code has come from Debian
[01:55] <mdz> whiprush: Hoary Hedgehog :-)
[01:55] <guestish> cool
[01:55] <whiprush> ah
[01:55] <guestish> got any screenshots?
[01:55] <blah09> evenin
[01:55] <mdz> guestish: hmm, I'm not sure that we do
[01:55] <mdz> jdub: screenshots?
[01:56] <defendguin> hey are you guys using the gnomeized version of ooo?
[01:56] <guestish> :)
[01:56] <guestish> mdz: well i suppose linux always looks the same
[01:56] <azeem> defendguin: haggai is around, so I guess yes
[01:56] <jblack> I have a screenshot of a hybrid ubuntu/debian system.
[01:56] <blah09> does this come with an installer?
[01:56] <defendguin> azeem, sweet
[01:56] <mdz> guestish: actually it is quite distinctive at the moment :-)
[01:57] <mdz> blah09: yes
[01:57] <guestish> mdz: eh? what desktop?
[01:57] <mdz> guestish: GNOME 2.8
[01:57] <blah09> sarge's?
[01:57] <guestish> mdz: dcc me over a screenshot :)
[01:57] <mdz> I'll put one up somewhere for everyone
[01:57] <whiprush> it's like sarge's but doesn't ask as many questions
[01:57] <blah09> ah ok =)
[01:57] <daniels> (note that Hoary isn't a nickname for our development branch in perpetuity, a la sid; it's the name of our next release)
[01:58] <guestish> sarge's asks very few questions
[01:58] <whiprush> daniels: yeah I figured that
[01:58] <andred> guestish, It asks some stuff that normal people have no clue about.
[01:58] <guestish> what does canonical do?
[01:58] <guestish> andred: hrm, like what?
[01:58] <mdz> guestish: Canonical Ltd. is committed to the development, distribution and promotion of open source software products, and to providing tools and support to the open source community.
[01:59] <mlh> fund ubuntu and gnu-arch mostly i gather
[01:59] <guestish> mdz: but hwo does it make money?
[01:59] <guestish> mdz: support contracts?
[01:59] <andred> guestish, Well, quite a number of the questions. I can't remember them specifically. The grub bootloader thing is perhaps scary for people.
[01:59] <mlh> it doesn't yet :-)
[01:59] <guestish> andred: oh, i've only used the installer for sparc, and it has very few prompts
[02:00] <whiprush> andred: the MTA question is one.
[02:00] <guestish> friggin ooo, wont open
[02:00] <andred> whiprush, Right, and I'm glad they've decided on just using local delivery by default instead of asking for that.
[02:00] <whiprush> also the sudo thing
[02:01] <guestish> mlh: lol, you serious?
[02:01] <Ritalin> hi
[02:02] <mlh> guestish, about what?  they certainly intend to make money -- but since they only decloaked yesterday it 's not surprising if they're not making money yet
[02:03] <guestish> mlh: oh
[02:03] <Ritalin> im downloading it now
[02:03] <guestish> mlh: im just courious as to how they are going to
[02:03] <Ritalin> looks neat
[02:03] <mdz> by popular demand: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-screenshots/
[02:04] <mlh> guestish, yeah me too :-).  i wish them luck though. it has a good philosophy behind it
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: shit man, we didn't do screenshots!
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: d'oh!
[02:04] <Castr0> wow it looks jus tlike gnome ;-)
[02:04] <blah09> looks like my libranet desktop =D
[02:04] <mdz> jdub: yeah, why didn't YOU think of it? :-)
[02:04] <guestish> mlh: sure :)
[02:04] <mdz> if you look closely, you can spot a few key differences :-)
[02:05] <whiprush> why did no one think of a trash applet before. I can't go back now
[02:05] <daniels> (for one, 90% of the screen)
[02:05] <blah09> is that wifi thing new?
[02:05] <mlh> mdz,jdub you might want to redirects from the .com :-) (currently holding page)
[02:05] <whiprush> that's different icons on the existing wifi applet.
[02:05] <guestish> sounds like this is a relatively new project
[02:05] <guestish> :)
[02:05] <phlaegel> so what's with the obsessively empty desktop?
[02:05] <andred> I hope the Trash applet will work for all sorts of delete operations in the future, not just for Nautilus delets. That would be cool.
[02:06] <whiprush> andred: I alias my rm to just mv to ~.Trash
[02:06] <blah09> probably cleaned up for the shot ;)
[02:06] <phlaegel> blah09: nope, the default install is like that
[02:06] <andred> whiprush, I didn't mean like that. I meant stuff like removing bookmarks by dragging them to the Trash applets. Stuff like that.
[02:06] <jdub> andred: yeah, that's the intention
[02:06] <whiprush> oh oh
[02:07] <blah09> thats cool, i like to clutter my desktop on my own
[02:07] <jdub> blah09: your desktop is yours! ALL YOURS!
[02:07] <blah09> w00t
[02:07] <Puumba> As far as improved laptop support, does that include software suspend?
[02:07] <whiprush> any hopes of getting the official firefox logo? </nitpick>
[02:08] <mdz> jdub: I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use the gnome screenshot tool to get a snaphsot while of a menu open :-)
[02:08] <andred> whiprush, Third-party distributors can't use it, so I guess not.
[02:08] <phlaegel> is there some reasoning behind it being completely empty though?
[02:08] <Gman> mdz, at the commandline, use --delay=N
[02:08] <mdz> phlaegel: ever notice how when you want to get to something on the desktop, there are always windows in the way? ;-)
[02:09] <jdub> mdz: you can run it from the command line wth a timeout
[02:09] <phlaegel> mdz: good point
[02:09] <mdz> Puumba: not by default, no; there are too many laptops which don't wake up if sent into software suspend
[02:09] <phlaegel> I suppose it fits better with desktop as homedir as well, which is my preference
[02:09] <j^> mdz just use the keyborad shortcut for screenshots
[02:09] <Puumba> Puumba: no problem.  Just curious.
[02:09] <andred> Oh my, a "Computer" menu. I wonder what that reveals.
[02:10] <Puumba> Well, good night all.
[02:10] <whiprush> andred: lots of stuff that was on the desktop before.
[02:10] <andred> whiprush, Aha
[02:10] <whiprush> i'll screenie it
[02:11] <andred> thanks
[02:11] <guestish> so, where are they?
[02:11] <mdz> jdub: what's the name of the program?
[02:12] <mdz> guestish: where are who?
[02:12] <guestish> mdz: screenies :)
[02:12] <jdub> gnome-panel-sc<tab><tab> ?
[02:12] <mdz> guestish: I put one up
[02:12] <mdz> ah, -panel-
[02:13] <jdub> ah yeah, gnome-panel-screenshot
[02:13] <blah09> ^^ up there somewhere
[02:13] <guestish> mdz: where?
[02:13] <guestish> i dont see any links
[02:13] <guestish> oh, i see it
[02:13] <guestish> wow...its uh,..barren
[02:13] <guestish> :)
[02:14] <mdz> it's clean and delicious
[02:14] <guestish> cool
[02:14] <whiprush> http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/screenshots/ubuntu_computer_menu.png
[02:14] <guestish> looks like a pretty standard 2.8 desktop to me
[02:14] <defendguin> mmmm nice
[02:15] <andred> whiprush, The "Desktop" entry is the "Show desktop" button?
[02:15] <defendguin> ubuntu going for lsb certification?
[02:15] <whiprush> it opens an empty window to ~/Desktop
[02:16] <guestish> mdz: laptop?
[02:16] <andred> whiprush, Hmm, ok. Why? Shouldn't meople learn to just drag stuff to the desktop if they want stuff there?
[02:16] <mdz> guestish: those shots are from my laptop, yes
[02:16] <whiprush> dunno, I'm new to this too.
[02:17] <whiprush> although I expect some things are still rough.
[02:17] <guestish> mdz: nice
[02:17] <whiprush> for a while I had my home directory on the panel and thought that was like that on purpose.
[02:17] <mdz> those of you with centrino laptops will appreciate driver support for the intel onboard wireless out of the box
[02:17] <defendguin> wow nice
[02:17] <mauriz> sounds great
[02:17] <whiprush> mine speedsteps too, the applet worked out of the box, that was cool
[02:18] <mauriz> what about atmel?
[02:18] <mdz> mauriz: likewise
[02:18] <mauriz> :)
[02:18] <mdz> hmm, actually it's apt-gettable
[02:18] <guestish>  i didnt know the linux kernel had support for wireless
[02:18] <mdz> atheros/madwifi is there by default
[02:18] <mdz> atmel the driver is there by default, but you need to apt-get the firmware
[02:19] <mauriz> cool
[02:19] <blah09> mdz: great news about the centrino =)
[02:19] <guestish> sweet
[02:19] <mdz> mauriz: hmm, I was right the first time. the firmware is there by default; atmel should work out of the box
[02:19] <mdz> as well as intel/centrino and atheros/madwifi
[02:20] <andred> Really, having "Desktop" on the menu seams weird. I don't think people should have to think about the "Desktop" as a folder.
[02:20] <mauriz> great :D
[02:20] <daniels> for those of you who need ndiswrapper, packages are expected to be available today
[02:20] <schweeb> guestish: the linux kernel has had support for wireless for a long time
[02:20] <guestish> schweeb: oh
[02:20] <phlaegel> andred: that's one reason I like the desktop being the home dir
[02:20] <guestish> never needed to use it
[02:21] <mdz> daniels: EVIL
[02:21] <sabdfl> andred: it lets you move stuff to the desktop even if you have apps that obscure it
[02:21] <mdz> workrave hates me, back in 10
[02:21] <jdub> wow, everyone's raving about the bittorrent feed :)
[02:22] <daniels> mdz: hey man, I like working wireless
[02:22] <andred> sabdfl, That's true.
[02:22] <xTina> I just installed Ubuntu on my iBook. It's looks really cool ... but I have the following on my list that does not work: DNS (I get my IP successfully via DHCP), getting an error message on login because of wrong permissions on /dev/pmu and I cannot play sound because "/dev/dsp already in use by another application". Other than that, it's fantastic so far :)
[02:22] <daniels> jdub: yeah, fooishbar's been pushing 1.1MB/sec for the last 12 hours (except for the 15min window where it died for no apparent reason -- huzzah)
[02:22] <ircrob> does it use xorg ?
[02:22] <schweeb> xTina: check /etc/resolv.conf real quick
[02:22] <xTina> schweeb: empty
[02:23] <crimsun> no, sanitized XFree86, ircrob
[02:23] <schweeb> xtina: dhclient script must be broke
[02:23] <daniels> ircrob: currently it uses XFree86 4.3 with a mountain of patches, but the development branch will be brought up-to-date with X.Org's X11R6.8.1
[02:23] <xTina> schweeb: I guessed so.
[02:23] <sabdfl> xTina: does your dhcp server normally set the dns correctly on other OS's?
[02:23] <xTina> schweeb: Rebooting back into Ubuntu right now, I'll investigate further ... I just wanted to see if my OS X install has survived :)
[02:24] <xTina> sabdfl: Yes.
[02:24] <schweeb> xTina: heh
[02:24] <m_tthew> xTina: does warty share a drive with OSX on that machine? (if so, how did that go?)
[02:24] <schweeb> xTina: look for lines with "nameserver" in /etc/dhclient-script
[02:25] <schweeb> if you know enough about shell scripting to troubleshoot it, that is
[02:25] <xTina> schweeb: I do.
[02:25] <Gman> daniels, what happened with that release? is it out or not?
[02:25] <schweeb> xTina: actually, mine's working, if you put yours up somewhere, I can do a diff real quick (I doubt the script is different between platforms)
[02:26] <defendguin> ubantu have a symbol yet?
[02:26] <defendguin> that little circle deal?
[02:26] <xTina> m_tthew: I originally had 2 installations of OS X on that drive, one partition for each. Deleted one of them during the manual partition step and created a root filesystem (ext3), a swap partition and a new world boot loader partition on the freed space. That was all.
[02:26] <xTina> I'm really fascinated :)
[02:26] <m_tthew> xTina: thanks
[02:27] <m_tthew> xTina: yeah, nice, isn't it?
[02:27] <xTina> Yepp. Very nice.
[02:27] <daniels> Gman: someone over at X.Org had a head explosion, I think
[02:29] <daniels> Gman: it's up right now
[02:29] <Gman> daniels, heh
[02:29] <whiprush> is this pmount the prefered way or fstab-sync, wrt hal?
[02:30] <defendguin> hmmm i might have to install this along side my fedora core 2 install
[02:33] <xTina> schweeb: what's the md5sum on your script?
[02:33] <schweeb> 754f7b5c3bba1bf519b50b52e110c63e  /etc/dhclient-script
[02:33] <xTina> different.
[02:33] <xTina> ok, I'll copy mine somewhere
[02:35] <TheUbu> bah
[02:35] <schweeb> I'll do a diff and post it... any special options you want on the diff?  I don't do diffs often, so I forget the options, heh
[02:35] <TheUbu> change the name
[02:35] <m_tthew> -u
[02:36] <gose> is the install the same as debian's or anyone have screenshots of it?
[02:36] <TheUbu> yeah take a few u-out
[02:37] <xTina> http://tuxtina.de/tmp/dhclient-script
[02:37] <xTina> gose: The same, it's just less chatty ;)
[02:37] <jdub> http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-screenshots/
[02:37] <jdub> oh sorry
[02:37] <jdub> installer ;)
[02:38] <defendguin> not one icon on the desktop?
[02:38] <tabo> i'm currently downloading ubuntu, where can i see the list of packages?
[02:39] <tabo> or a repository
[02:39] <tabo> oh, nevermind, in the wiki
[02:40] <jdub> defendguin: none! :)
[02:40] <gose> is floppy net install supported?  it doesn't look like it
[02:41] <robertj> Why is floppy net install a big deal?
[02:41] <whiprush> is usplash the bootsplash.org stuff or something different?
[02:41] <jdub> whiprush: different, and really cool ;)
[02:41] <jdub> whiprush: totally out of the kernel, not horribly hackish
[02:41] <whiprush> is there a url? I can't find jack on google about it
[02:42] <robertj> heya jdub, do you know what the big differences are between userlinux and ubuntu?
[02:42] <jdub> robertj: in terms of direction or what we include?
[02:42] <robertj> both I guess
[02:42] <jdub> well, we are doing six month time-based releases from sid
[02:42] <schweeb> xTina: bbl... put mine up instead of diffing it.... http://schweeb.org/~chris/dhclient-script
[02:42] <jdub> that's just part of the deal
[02:43] <jdub> in terms of what we include in the current releases, userlinux is based on sarge
[02:43] <robertj> sid or testing?
[02:43] <jdub> ubuntu is based on sid + gnome 2.8 and stuff
[02:43] <jdub> :-)
[02:43] <xTina> schweeb: Now that's a very different script ;)
[02:43] <jdub> robertj: sid!
[02:43] <xTina> Interesting ...
[02:43] <npx> Can I install ubuntu using debootstrap?
[02:43] <whiprush> I tried UL, the installer is almost identical to sarge's, except you can do "home pc, server, something" in the beginning
[02:44] <robertj> userlinux still asks way to many questions
[02:45] <robertj> I couldn't believe there was a MTA config prompt still there
[02:45] <whiprush> yes, that's the worse one
[02:45] <whiprush> the HP-specific choice always makes me chuckle.
[02:46] <peacemaker885> installing warty, noticed that its downloading and installing everything (X11 and all)..did I miss something or is this by design.  I just wanted a 'base install'
[02:46] <robertj> I need to install warty. Hrmmm
[02:46] <jdub> peacemaker885: if you just want to do a base/custom install (not the whole desktop), type 'custom' in at the install boot prompt
[02:47] <peacemaker885> jdub: thanks!
[02:47] <schweeb> xTina: that's likely from Sid
[02:47] <xTina> Alright, with the new script, everything works fine.
[02:47] <xTina> Thanks.
[02:48] <schweeb> robertj: doesn't userlinux just install pkgs right from debian sources? it used to just be a virtual package
[02:48] <robertj> not sure
[02:48] <robertj> I've been playing with fedora lately and using OS X
[02:48] <schweeb> which would mean it will always give the MTA choice
[02:49] <robertj> using OS X is a great experience, just because its a different approach
[02:49] <schweeb> not a big fan myself
[02:49] <whiprush> nor me
[02:50] <robertj> It's wonderful. Directory services are great on OS X
[02:50] <whiprush> although ... ubuntu/ppc on a 15" powerbook might be nice.
[02:50] <schweeb> whiprush: or in proper engrish, "nor I" :P
[02:50] <whiprush> heh
[02:50] <schweeb> more than enough directory services for me
[02:51] <robertj> schweeb: well its real easy to set up your box to auth off of two openldap servers, an ad tree, and local
[02:51] <robertj> also you can configure preferences for your client machines via openldap extensions
[02:52] <robertj> the big downside is rolling adduser scripts for OS X server is no trivial task
[02:52] <schweeb> easily implemented on linux
[02:52] <mauriz> by the way, what would be minimum hardware requirement?
[02:52] <robertj> schweeb: but already implemented on OS X
[02:53] <whiprush> ctrl +/- for font zoom broken in epiphany for anyone else?
[02:53] <sladen> mauriz: Ubuntu runs sweetest on nice recent laptops.  There isn't really a minimum requirement, but it's not going to be fun if you choose an old machine!
[02:54] <sladen> mauriz: Stick it on a machine that you'd use to test a new version of Window, or Doom3 on---you'll have the most fun with Ubuntu that way
[02:54] <mauriz> i don't have such machine
[02:54] <robertj> i'm not seeing a net install disk on this mirror, am I missing something?
[02:55] <sladen> whiprush: usplash is completely separate and makes people drool---sadly it's not in Warty so you'll have to hang on for another six months
[02:55] <whiprush> sladen: yeah I just can't find any info on it anywhere.
[02:55] <whiprush> But I'll take your word for it
[02:55] <sladen> whiprush: if you search around the web for "Mad Phat Splash", you'll find a couple of people who've blogged about it
[02:55] <daniels> "mad phat startup"
[02:56] <schweeb> even better would be uber fast init so you don't have to sit and look at a bootsplash for long :p
[02:56] <sladen> schweeb: you ain't seen nothing yet ;-)
[02:56] <whiprush> oh I see, along with Totally Rad Laptop Support.
[02:57] <daniels> whiprush: right
[02:57] <whiprush> Man, you guys must drink alot. I salute you.
[02:57] <schweeb> sladen: considering doing an init with dependencies
[02:57] <schweeb> ?
[02:57] <schweeb> 20:57 < schweeb> ?
[02:57] <schweeb>  [20:57]  [schweeb(+i)]  [4:#ubuntu(+ns)]
[02:57] <schweeb> [#ubuntu]
[02:57] <schweeb> shit
[02:57] <schweeb> sorry :-/
[02:58] <robertj> What exactly does Mad Phat startup entail?
[02:59] <jdub> robertj: nice, pretty, useful startup information
[02:59] <jdub> robertj: without ugly kernel patches and so on
[02:59] <robertj> so like, a background on the terminal ;)
[02:59] <jdub> heh, nah, cooler
[02:59] <jdub> there'll be stuff in our devel repo when we branch
[03:00] <robertj> I really like Fedora's except for the fact that you still get dumped to the black screen for a while in between the boot loader and the minaturized X-thingymajigger
[03:00] <robertj> it reminds me of watching Windows 3.1 and 95 boot ;)
[03:01] <daniels> it's really incredibly difficult to get a splash that early, though
[03:01] <robertj> yeah, I know
[03:02] <robertj> But doable apparently, but I don't know what impact that would have on legacy hardware
[03:02] <Md> hardware is not the problem
[03:02] <Md> it's painful anyway
[03:02] <whiprush> oh, no printer here but I have to ask, Xprint for firefox?
[03:03] <robertj> If your bootloader can have a background image, why can't the kernel itself?
[03:03] <m_tthew> maurix: I ran warty fine on an older pII with 256M of RAM
[03:04] <defendguin> jdub, im gonna miss my home icon :(  is this a gnome thing or is it a ubuntu thing?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: ubuntu
[03:05] <defendguin> ahh
[03:05] <defendguin> why did you make that decision?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: you can turn the desktop icons back on in gconf-editor (under /apps/nautilus) if you want to
[03:05] <xTina> So, the i386 install asks for an "installation type"? Or did I get that wrong?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: you have full access in the computer menu
[03:06] <jdub> defendguin: in normal operation, you can't get to your desktop behind your current work ;)
[03:06] <defendguin> yeah i suppose so
[03:06] <robertj> jdub: another thing I have learned as an OS X admin is that anyone who saves anything to the desktop without prompting should be shot
[03:06] <schweeb> yea, I use fluxbox, and I don't even notice not having desktop icons
[03:07] <joh_> hi
[03:07] <joh_> hmm, what is the default root password?
[03:07] <schweeb> nothing
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> there isn't one
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo passwd
[03:07] <schweeb> there is no root
[03:07] <robertj> jdub: at any given time I have like 30 random .pdfs on my Desktop (sure they could be in ~/tmp or whatever) but they are just pointless clutter
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> but you should just use sudo
[03:08] <robertj> is there really no root account?
[03:08] <joh_> there is no root?
[03:08] <defendguin> jdub, the computer menu will include things liek remote fiele systems like an ftp or ssh volume?
[03:08] <whiprush> your user account uses sudo to do stuff
[03:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> root is there, however you should not need to use it because you have full sudo access
[03:08] <whiprush> so, sudo apt-get update
[03:08] <schweeb> I think the passwd file still has a user
[03:08] <whiprush> or whatever
[03:08] <robertj> well that's quite different from there being no root
[03:08] <jdub> defendguin: in the future, yeah
[03:08] <schweeb> it's like a daemon user, you'll never need to actually be that user
[03:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> there is no root in that you should never login as root
[03:08] <jdub> defendguin: but see 'disks' and 'network' in the ocmputer menu
[03:09] <defendguin> yeah
[03:09] <joh_> I really like this thing :)
[03:09] <jdub> schweeb: the root account is disabled, but still exists (it has to)
[03:09] <schweeb> jdub: right, for file ownership and such
[03:09] <sabdfl> night all
[03:09] <schweeb> the nameservices stuff
[03:09] <azeem> jdub: so how are you using sudo to run the admin stuff?
[03:10] <azeem> just hacked sudo in front of the commands in the .desktop files?
[03:10] <schweeb> yea, I'm curious as to how much hacking it took to make the admin tools use sudo
[03:10] <jdub> azeem: gksudo
[03:10] <jdub> schweeb: not much
[03:10] <jmullman> :)
[03:11] <schweeb> ah, never even heard of gksudo, heh
[03:11] <whiprush> an selinux plans? Or am I looking in the wrong place in the wiki?
[03:11] <azeem> jdub: is that an ubuntu thingy, or from elsewhere?
[03:12] <schweeb> jdub: so pretty much just a change in reference to gksudo from gksu
[03:12] <jdub> azeem: it's part of gksu
[03:12] <joh_> Anyone successfully used ipw2200? My computer stopped responding when loading the driver
[03:12] <azeem> oh, hmm
[03:12] <jdub> schweeb: and extra work elsewhere to make it all work properly, yeah
[03:13] <mdz> joh_: yes, it's working well for me
[03:13] <sladen> robertj: Xandros, for instance use VGA hacks and have the boot-loader directly program the VGA card;  then have their SplashFX patch continue with the same direct VGA hacks
[03:13] <mdz> joh_: the driver is relatively new, though
[03:13] <joh_> mdz, strange
[03:13] <sladen> robertj: usplash gets a framebuffer loaded real quick(tm), in initrd, and then everything is cross platform---it's just a framebuffer
[03:14] <joh_> It worked for me in debian sarge, is it the latest version? 0.7?
[03:14] <whiprush> bed for me, nite folks. Great job guys, I'm loving it so far, can't wait to see where this goes.
[03:14] <mako> from /.: The closest distro to Ubuntu is probably Bruce Perens's UserLinux project. But UserLinux is focused squarely upon business, whilst Ubuntu seems to be more focused on individual users.
[03:14] <mdz> joh_: yes, it's 0.7
[03:14] <mako> i think that's REALLY funny :)
[03:14] <mdz> hehe
[03:14] <schweeb> hah
[03:14] <m_tthew> xTina: ping
[03:14] <mdz> whiprush: thanks, good night
[03:14] <mako> very true :)
[03:14] <xTina> m_tthew: pong?
[03:14] <xTina> Did I miss something? ;)
[03:15] <m_tthew> xTina: powerpc image crashes disk utility here, too, soon as I load it.
[03:15] <xTina> Ah, alright.
[03:15] <utta> During install, did you receive a prompt to set up the root password?
[03:15] <xTina> utta: No.
[03:15] <m_tthew> xTina: yeah, completely tanks as soon as I load the iso
[03:15] <sladen> mako: did you read the bit `` This might appear credible to me if I weren't more familiar with linux. Either it's a joke, or it's astroturfing. [..] ''
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> utta, that's notabug
[03:16] <utta> xTina, thanks. Ok, so where do we setup/change the root password
[03:16] <sladen> utta: Ubuntu uses sudo;  type   sudo command line to run as root
[03:16] <mako> sladen: yeah, i think that's in reference to another now scored down comment though
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> eg: sudo apt-get update
[03:16] <mako> sladen: i remember reading it
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
[03:17] <xTina> Hm. No ppc packages available anywhere?
[03:17] <joh_> sudo bash ... ahhhh >(
[03:17] <sladen> utta: you'll then be prompted for your own password
[03:17] <joh_> :)
[03:17] <m_tthew> utta: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5722653677/faq_view
[03:17] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo bash is not necessary though
[03:17] <sladen> joh_: mmmm.  Well that defeats all the security and accountability of using sudo
[03:18] <lupusBE> which Xorg version is ubuntu using?
[03:18] <joh_> I know, I know. old habbit...
[03:18] <schweeb> it uses XFree 4.3, afaik
[03:18] <jdub> lupusBE: 4.3 + patches
[03:18] <sladen> joh_: if you really feel the need, you could do   sudo passwd   and set a root password.
[03:18] <jdub> lupusBE: X.org coming in our next release :)
[03:18] <utta> m_tthew, Thanks
[03:18] <azeem> does Eugenia like browsing folders, or does ubuntu not use spatial nautilus by default?
[03:18] <robertj> sladen: how quick is that real quick?
[03:18] <utta> Hrdwr_BoB, Thanks
[03:18] <joh_> sladen, thanks, but I think I like it as it is
[03:19] <utta> xTina, Thanks
[03:19] <lupusBE> your waiting for debrix?
[03:19] <janm> hello
[03:19] <sladen> robertj: can you hang around until April?  ;-)
[03:20] <jdub> you'll see it way before april though
[03:20] <defendguin> im guessing indubstrial is the default there?
[03:20] <jdub> because it'll be in our devel branch soon
[03:20] <robertj> but seriously, is it like a split second or is it a noticible delay
[03:20] <jdub> defendguin: it's based on indubstrial, yes
[03:20] <xTina> So what repository should I use for the PPC version?
[03:26] <joh_> by default, there is no icons on the desktop_
[03:26] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> mobutu linux!!!
[03:26] <joh_> ?
[03:26] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> ojo olomfobre oagadugu mobutu linux
[03:26] <Hrdwr_BoB> in english?
[03:27] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> inside joke
[03:27] <xTina> Oh, it's working now. Never mind.
[03:27] <schweeb> a legible nick would be nice
[03:27] <schweeb> heh
[03:27] <jmullman> i see that nick and think "Hut, hut!"
[03:28] <jmullman> blue 32! blue 32! Hut hut!
[03:29] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> how can i bring humanity to others
[03:29] <mako> amu says he can't find the pubkey that signed the release file
[03:29] <mako> is this for elmo?
[03:30] <jsubl2> what do you use to burn iso's
[03:31] <schweeb> cdrecord
[03:31] <sladen> robertj: did you see my /query ?
[03:31] <jsubl2> i need a gui
[03:32] <xTina> jsubl2: No, you don't ;)
[03:32] <schweeb> cdrecord blah.iso
[03:32] <jmullman> cdrecord dev=/dev/whateveryourburneris filetoburn.iso
[03:32] <schweeb> maybe with a dev= in there
[03:32] <jdub> jsubl2: right click on an iso in the file manager
[03:32] <jsubl2> ok
[03:32] <jdub> jsubl2: choose 'write to disk'
[03:32] <jmullman> if you can copy a file, you can burn ;)
[03:32] <daniels> (to answer a question for someone who isn't here right now, no, we are not waiting for debrix; hoary will get new x debs relatively quickly)
[03:32] <schweeb> jmullman: man, the cdrecord guy HATES when you do it that way
[03:32] <jsubl2> i am still dl'ing
[03:33] <jsubl2> 25 minutes and I will be able to burn warty
[03:33] <jmullman> schweeb: tough nuggies lol
[03:33] <robertj> sladen: yah, got it
[03:33] <jdub> daniels: grr. wrong sender address on your list post :)
[03:33] <defendguin> will the installer not let me install a boot loader?
[03:33] <daniels> jdub: er, yeah
[03:35] <joh_> hmm, how do I get the kernel source package?
[03:36] <jsubl2> oooo back to compiling with fakeroot... right
[03:39] <daniels> jdub: i blame the lists moving
[03:40] <robertj> I need to grab a copy of ubuntu to keep current, is there a net install only iso floating around?
[03:40] <joh_> sorry... stupid me...
[03:40] <mdz> robertj: you can download a netboot tarball
[03:41] <mdz> defendguin: the installer installs grub in the MBR by default, unless you have other operating systems installed, in which case it prompts you
[03:41] <robertj> mdz: like a base.tar.gz?
[03:42] <defendguin> yeah i have another OS and i was just gonna add a grub.conf entry by hand mdz
[03:42] <mdz> robertj: like a kernel, initrd and config stuff for a PXE boot and network install
[03:42] <mdz> robertj: there is only one ISO available, the full-sized one
[03:45] <robertj> mdz: is it everything you need to chroot, install a boot-loader, and be done?
[03:45] <mdz> robertj: it gives you the complete installer, same as on the CD
[03:45] <mdz> I'll dig up a URL for you
[03:46] <mdz> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[03:46] <justdave> anyone burned the powerpc image yet?
[03:46] <mdz> robertj: actually there is a mini-ISO in there, now that I look. surprise :-)
[03:46] <mdz> justdave: of course; we tested it before release
[03:46] <mdz> robertj: please let me know if it works; it's unofficial at the moment
[03:46] <justdave> the machine with the burner on it has OS X on it, and Disk Utility crashes when I click the Burn button with it selected.
[03:47] <justdave> md5sum matches
[03:47] <mdz> justdave: yes, that is a bug in Disk Utility, unfortunately
[03:47] <mdz> justdave: xTina filed a bug with apple, I believe
[03:47] <xTina> Yes I did.
[03:47] <xTina> justdave: Install cdrecord via Fink and burn it on the command line.
[03:48] <mdz> xTina: is their bug tracking system public?  it would be great to have a URL we could give people so they could follow the issue, since more people will run into this
[03:49] <xTina> mdz: No, it is not. You need to be an ADC member to access it (there's a free online membership though, if anyone is willing to go through the application forms to file the bug).
[03:49] <mdz> xTina: is there a bug ID number or anything like that?
[03:49] <xTina> But you can only see your own bugs at any given time.
[03:50] <mdz> hmm
[03:50] <jmullman> not a very useful system is it? ;)
[03:50] <jmullman> love mac, hate the support
[03:50] <xTina> If they file additional bugs, they'll likely get closed/duplicated and don't see any further progress.
[03:50] <xTina> jmullman: Well, the latter problem is apparently a limitation of the software they're using.
[03:50] <neighborlee> hi..ic that ubuntu uses gnome/debian...i'm wondering what kernel it uses and what main features it has like automount and say browswer plugins ..?
[03:51] <jmullman> let's all nail their support, asking that they use bugzilla ;)
[03:51] <xTina> Making bug reports non-public by default makes sense, if it's also tracking NDA software and corporate customers make use of it to file internal problems.
[03:51] <jmullman> and you can do that with acls
[03:52] <jmullman> corp. accounts get more restrictive access and the public gets to see only public
[03:52] <jmullman> but this is a digression ;)
[03:52] <xTina> mdz: If you have the time, you might want to try to build a slightly modified ISO. As I said before, I never had a problem with it before that. Or put an FAQ somewhere ;)
[03:53] <mdz> xTina: yeah, we never ran into this with previous CD builds, it must just be how it happened to be assembled
[03:54] <mdz> xTina: if you file a bug in our bugzilla, I'll use that to collect information about the problem, and to notify folks if we find a workaround or if the next CD is known to avoid the issue
[03:54] <xTina> I'll do that.
[03:54] <xTina> There is none yet, or should I search as a precaution?
[03:54] <mdz> I haven't seen one
[03:55] <neighborlee> what branch of debian does ubuntu yes and is ubuntu totall compat with it ?
[03:55] <neighborlee> yes/use
[03:55] <mdz> neighborlee: ubuntu is based on Debian unstable/sid
[03:55] <mdz> neighborlee: upgrades from Debian woody are supported
[03:55] <xTina> what's the url?
[03:55] <mdz> xTina: http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/
[03:56] <neighborlee> mdz: ok...my question was really related to will apt-get work completely or does ubunto do anything 'unique' like mix branches causing possible problems...thx..
[03:57] <mdz> neighborlee: our release is based on a snapshot of debian unstable that we've continued to work on with bug fixes and improvements
[03:57] <mdz> all of the software from unstable is available from our repository
[03:57] <mdz> though, not all of it is officially supported
[03:57] <mdz> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[03:57] <mdz> for more information about that
[03:57] <neighborlee> k thx
[03:58] <egon_spengler> Looks like the /. article has brought them out from all over, eh?
[03:59] <defendguin> its too bad the name "ubuntu" isnt a good name
[04:00] <defendguin> to me anyway
[04:00] <schweeb> I kind of like it
[04:00] <schweeb> it's unique
[04:00] <mdz> it resonates very well with open source and our ideas about it
[04:00] <defendguin> the meaning of the name is fine
[04:01] <neighborlee> defendguin, I also like it
[04:01] <xTina> mdz: Hm. Seems Bugzilla is slow sending out passwords.
[04:01] <neighborlee> it has pizazz
[04:01] <justdave> it's on the same pipe with the downloads
[04:02] <defendguin> i like Zen Linux
[04:02] <justdave> the mail has to wait in line for a space on the pipe :)
[04:02] <jsubl2> my fav from /. = I was telling my wife that the real problem with Linux is that there just aren't enough distributions out there. If some of these people, these so-called "open source programmers" would get off their asses and crank out a few more distributions THEN this stuff would really take off.
[04:02] <jsubl2> lol
[04:02] <neighborlee> anyway its 'meaning' is what matters so for me they could have called it 'bootoo' and i'd like it LOL
[04:02] <jdub> defendguin: the meaning of ubuntu is just beautiful, it's great :)
[04:02] <defendguin> lmfao
[04:03] <defendguin> how is it pronounced?
[04:03] <defendguin> U bun two?
[04:03] <defendguin> oo bun too?
[04:03] <jdub> ooh-boon-too
[04:03] <jdub> think: ooh ooh ooh, ubuntu! :-)
[04:04] <neighborlee> ooh-boon-too is what I thought as well LOL
[04:04] <defendguin> i was thinking U bun two
[04:05] <neighborlee> I like that it comes with gnome ;-0
[04:05] <neighborlee> so dain many only ship kde and it really urks me
[04:05] <hello> ubuntu looks absolutely awesome
[04:05] <neighborlee> hello, ;-0
[04:06] <neighborlee> I wont know for about another hour or so assuming that how long it takes to download/install ;-0
[04:06] <defendguin> maybe you should include a phonetic spelling thing on the website right beneath the logo
[04:06] <jdub> neighborlee: you pulling from a torrent?
[04:06] <neighborlee> jdub, yup
[04:06] <mdz> defendguin: we should include an ogg vorbis sample :-)
[04:06] <neighborlee> jdub, I just now started it..;0
[04:06] <mdz> hello: thank you :-)
[04:06] <defendguin> mdz sure
[04:06] <neighborlee> hmm decent speed so far..
[04:07] <neighborlee> I can't believe so many are here considering its a new distro
[04:07] <hello> it's downloading for me at 416k/s 8)
[04:07] <daniels> my torrent is only pushing 635kB/sec right now
[04:07] <daniels> down from 1.5MB/sec earlier this morning
[04:07] <hello> I think I'll install it tonight if I get some time
[04:07] <defendguin> 27.2 k/s
[04:07] <mdz> I saw upwards of 5mbit not long ago
[04:07] <egon_spengler> neighborlee Due to the slashdot effect
[04:07] <neighborlee> is the install debian like or did you incooporate anacando like progeny did ?
[04:07] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, ahhh heh
[04:08] <jdub> neighborlee: it uses a simplified and enhanced debian-installer
[04:08] <neighborlee> I saw it on distrowatch
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub, sweet
[04:08] <mdz> neighborlee: it is closer to Debian than anaconda, but greatly streamlined
[04:08] <jdub> neighborlee: our second release will have a graphical installer
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub, nice on both counts ;-)
[04:08] <xTina> Hm. Does anyone have a login screen screenshot I can steal?
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub: i always thought text and gui should be offered
[04:09] <neighborlee> but yeah gui is good..if distro turns out to be well done and popular ..we dont need to not attract those that can only deal with a gui ;-))..
[04:10] <neighborlee> one hour 33 minutes ;-0
[04:10] <neighborlee> btw..i was attracted by fact its debian and that 'gnome' is actually here <G>
[04:10] <zenwhen> I wish i had known about this when I was sitting on a T3 earlier
[04:10] <neighborlee> I dont mind kde but I prefer gnome because its truly free
[04:10] <neighborlee> zenwhen, heh
[04:10] <zenwhen> <--- Dialup
[04:10] <neighborlee> ooooooouch
[04:10] <zenwhen> yeah
[04:11] <hello> I hope I have some CDRs
[04:11] <zenwhen> hehe
[04:11] <neighborlee> hello, ;-0
[04:12] <hello> yay, 2 left
[04:12] <daniels> neighborlee: um, KDE is under the GPL, so is Qt
[04:12] <neighborlee> daniels, yes but its not quite as free to use as gnome/gtk is it
[04:13] <daniels> gtk is under the lgpl, which means you can develop proprietary apps using it without paying for a licence.
[04:13] <neighborlee> exactly
[04:13] <jdub> neighborlee: KDE and GNOME are both Free Software, let's not get into this :-)
[04:14] <daniels> yes
[04:14] <neighborlee> jdub: all i'm saying is I 'prefer' gnome because to do commercial doesn't require paying..its just that simple to me..no biggie!
[04:14] <daniels> bdale: it's sounder@
[04:14] <egon_spengler> Just nice to see a new release with GNOME as default vice KDE.
[04:14] <tuppa> so can  I still bitch about KDE to you daniels?
[04:14] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, exactly
[04:15] <egon_spengler> GNOME is my default in Slack and FreeBSD
[04:15] <sladen> tuppa: yeah, KDE's a pain isn't it  ;-)
[04:15] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, heh
[04:16] <bdale> daniels: my inbox now has a bunch of messages with:
[04:16] <bdale> List-Id: Ubuntu Help and User Discussions <ubuntu-users.lists.ubuntu.com>
[04:17] <daniels> bdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list
[04:18] <bdale> gee, thanks.  list renames suck.
[04:18] <Hrdwr_BoB> yeah my list filters didn't magically work it out
[04:19] <mike22> hi
[04:19] <bdale> updated in my config
[04:19] <hello> burning my CD B)
[04:19] <mike22> just read on /. is this x.org or xf86?
[04:19] <mdz> mike22: xfree86 for this release, x.org going into our development branch soon after
[04:19] <mike22> thanks
[04:20] <neighborlee> mdz: sweet
[04:21] <mike22> had alot of trouble with fc2 most tgz files look for xf86 includes
[04:21] <mike22> could not get pov-ray and lots others to compile
[04:22] <mdz> mike22: povray is available in packaged form; you shouldn't need to compile it
[04:22] <neighborlee> mike22, hmm well I find alot of innovative things in fc..I dont overall trust it
[04:23] <sladen> bdale: I think it would have been useful to have a post to the list stating it in advance, and with the new  Sender: / List-Id:  yes
[04:24] <mike22> i'm on the list to try the free cd thanks I fell a little giulty though there should be an address to send a contribution on the home page or on the page that gives you the free cd
[04:28] <dieman> 332 requests currently being processed, 18 idle workers
[04:28] <dieman> heh
[04:28] <dieman> only doing like 40mbps now though
[04:29] <neighborlee> 107KB/s..not much longer now ;-00heh
[04:29] <dieman> where you d/ling from?
[04:29] <neighborlee> albeit that slow...my dsl is slow but I work for the company so im not complaining <G>
[04:29] <neighborlee> dieman, BT
[04:29] <dieman> ahh
[04:29] <dieman> im helping the BT
[04:29] <dieman> ive got 1mbps to throw in from home
[04:29] <neighborlee> kewl thx!!
[04:30] <neighborlee> ill leave it going once I boot into ooh-boon-too <G>
[04:30] <neighborlee> ;-)
[04:30] <dieman> heh
[04:30] <dieman> i've been using it on my wife's machine for a few weeks now
[04:30] <dieman> and a vmware session at work for testing
[04:30] <dieman> installed it on a users laptop today too
[04:30] <neighborlee> dieman, hmmm and what does your wife think..and has she been die hard M$ fan perse ?
[04:30] <dieman> just about everything worked well enough.
[04:30] <neighborlee> very nice
[04:30] <dieman> naa, ive had her using linux for a good 3 or 4 years now
[04:31] <neighborlee> I just hope getting nvidia working isn't a hastle
[04:31] <dieman> nv should be easy
[04:31] <neighborlee> I tried in 'real' debian and it was rough
[04:31] <neighborlee> partly cuz debian doesn't use same init stuff that redhat and others do...a real PITA
[04:31] <dieman> the module is already there, you should just have to install nvidia-glx and choose nvidia in either 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86'  or the XF86Config-4 configuration file
[04:31] <dieman> (correct me if im wrong, anyone)
[04:31] <neighborlee> kewl
[04:32] <neighborlee> if so thats nice and easy
[04:32] <neighborlee> i'll remember thx
[04:33] <neighborlee> dieman, so does it do automount and what browser plugins come ready to rock..( not a 'biggie' but its nice )
[04:33] <neighborlee> ooooooouch
[04:33] <neighborlee> my download is corrupt ..restarting ;
[04:34] <neighborlee> stuff happens
[04:34] <neighborlee> restarted ;-
[04:35] <dieman> im not sure on the browser plugins offhand, not in front of my wife's machine
[04:35] <neighborlee> np
[04:35] <dieman> im going to be sitting down and recompiling mariliat's archive against ubuntu tonight perhaps
[04:35] <dieman> so we can get mplayer
[04:35] <dieman> and acroread
[04:35] <dieman> also need to get j2sdk going.
[04:35] <neighborlee> good
[04:35] <dieman> (i dont work for canonical, im just a user)
[04:35] <neighborlee> i'm not offhand familiar with mariliat sorry
[04:35] <neighborlee> dieman, heh
[04:35] <Hrdwr_BoB> marillat is a mong
[04:35] <dieman> hes a debian developer
[04:36] <dieman> haha
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> he put x11 as the default output in mplayer
[04:36] <neighborlee> ahhhhh
[04:36] <dieman> yeah
[04:36] <dieman> i'll probally change that in my own archive
[04:36] <dieman> xv all the way
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> well, sdl
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> it depends on sdl anyway
[04:36] <neighborlee> dieman, so overall your wife seemed impressed at first glance ?..im looking fwd to gnome2.8 ;-00!!
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> sdl automagically figures out xv/x11/yourmother
[04:37] <neighborlee> gotta love sdl..
[04:37] <dieman> neighborlee: shes used to gnome 2.4/2.6, so it wasn't a huge diff
[04:37] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, lol
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> so wtf not use it
[04:37] <dieman> neighborlee: the newer evolution was the biggest thing
[04:37] <neighborlee> dieman, hmm..i've not seen evo1.5 yet..
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> neighborlee, my fiance got sick of me playing with it.. she's not that impressed because she's already using debian unstable
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> and evo 1.5
[04:38] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, sweet ;-))
[04:38] <neighborlee> linux really is making inroads ;-00
[04:41] <dieman> god. the mirror is so bogged down out here
[04:41] <dieman> Fetched 85.1kB in 21s (3972B/s)
[04:41] <dieman> ow. ow. ow.
[04:44] <TongMaster> This # got busy suddenly.
[04:44] <TongMaster> jdub, one thought I had but never got to discuss last night (insert something about alcohol impaired attention spans) was the menu systems
[04:45] <TongMaster> Specifically the removal of the Debian menus. My question on their absence was leading up to a I feature I use heavely.
[04:46] <TongMaster> (even heavily)
[04:46] <neighborlee> heh
[04:46] <TongMaster> I understand why the Debian menus have been removed, that's makes sense.
[04:46] <neighborlee> yeah I always thought the debian menus were out of place
[04:47] <neighborlee> 53 minutes!
[04:47] <TongMaster> As a sysadmin though, I make *bloody* heavy use of custom Debian menus.
[04:47] <neighborlee> then 10 to burn and whatever to install ..lol
[04:47] <jdub> TongMaster: right, so, you can do customish stuff to the gnome menus
[04:47] <jdub> TongMaster: but it needs a lot of love
[04:47] <TongMaster> ah.
[04:48] <dieman> so, if ive got a usb hotplug flash-drive issue, what component should I bug it on?
[04:48] <TongMaster> The Debian .menu stuff is very sweet, so doing it the GNOME was need some TLC?
[04:51] <jdub> it needs some upstream fixes to the menu system to work nicely
[04:54] <dieman> Detailed Info: 'From ~5:30 to 7:30 pm tonight we experienced intermittent
[04:54] <dieman> +network problems at the border.  The problem+is resolved.  Please contact 1-HELP<PHONE_NUMBER>) for questions or concerns.'
[04:55] <jdub> dieman: haha :) oops
[04:55] <sladen> dieman: good point, could do with a handy mariliat-esq archive.  Just the question of how to do it legally
[04:56] <dieman> yeah
[04:57] <dieman> i'll probally compile one up locally, but i dont know if i want to figure out the redistribution issues
[04:57] <daniels> dieman: ftp.cs.umn.edu?
[04:57] <dieman> daniels: yah
[04:57] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/sample.png
[04:57] <AndyFitz> /me ducks and runs   brb
[04:58] <daniels> dieman: nice :)
[04:58] <logik1> dieman: I agree. Nice.
[05:01] <logik1> So, what all do you think would improve Unbuntu?
[05:05] <xTina> logik1: Fixing all the bugs that I'm going to file after bugzilla finally gives me an account and then making sure that kickstart stuff that's apparently planned for the second release will really happen and happen soon :)
[05:05] <logik1> xTina: yes, I just install'd ub on 13 machines.
[05:06] <logik1> xTina: just imaged the HD.
[05:06] <xTina> Images are evil.
[05:06] <xTina> BadBadBadBadBad ;)
[05:06] <logik1> xTina: I want to know how good UB works with MPICH.
[05:06] <xTina> logik1: :)
[05:08] <logik1> xTina: so far, 10 of the 13 nodes have been failing and I am not sure why.
[05:09] <schweeb> I'd like to make an install report
[05:09] <schweeb> installed from that mini ISO
[05:09] <schweeb> worked well
[05:11] <schweeb> still downloading in base-config though... stupid 384k cable modem
[05:11] <defendguin> hmm is it possibly to install to a non mounted hard drive without out rebooting?
[05:12] <defendguin> without booting from the CD
[05:12] <pr0c> what optimizations where used building ubunu? (686?)
[05:12] <SmokingFire> anyone know how to enbable ntp support?
[05:12] <SmokingFire> can't find the services list
[05:12] <SmokingFire> I see I think I need to install it first with Synaptic
[05:13] <SmokingFire> I have seen some trick for it but it needs chroot or something
[05:13] <Hrdwr_BoB> pr0c, -O9 -funroll-loops -march=superhicas
[05:14] <schweeb> SmokingFire: "apt-get install ntpdate ntp-simple" usually works for me
[05:14] <dieman> xTina: im interested in automated installs too
[05:14] <pr0c> Hrdwr_BoB, haha
[05:14] <dieman> xTina: we should compare notes about needs over email sometime
[05:14] <neighborlee> 26 min. ;-0
[05:15] <dieman> http://www.funroll-loops.org/
[05:15] <dieman> mmmm
[05:15] <schweeb> hahahahaha
[05:15] <schweeb> I was about to pull that link out
[05:15] <logik1> schweeb: are the mirror servers bogged down?
[05:15] <dieman> logik1: yes
[05:15] <dieman> logik1: at least mine is
[05:16] <dieman> 342 requests currently being processed, 8 idle workers
[05:16] <logik1> dieman: give me a sec; I will throw up a mirror
[05:16] <SmokingFire> thanks scheew
[05:16] <neighborlee> ROFL
[05:16] <SmokingFire> thanks scheeb
[05:16] <xTina> dieman: We currently have a Fedora kickstart setup and I'm fed up with Fedora ;)
[05:16] <SmokingFire> schweeb
[05:16] <dieman> logik1: just set one up and then add the info to the wiki or harass a canonical person in here
[05:16] <schweeb> SmokingFire: IRC clients with tab completion rock
[05:16] <dieman> logik1: im just a user. :)
[05:16] <xTina> dieman: But I love kickstart, so I sort of don't want to go anywhere near FAI if we were to switch to Debian.
[05:16] <schweeb> logik1: I'm saturating my cable modem
[05:17] <schweeb> so they're not ULTRA bogged down
[05:17] <xTina> dieman: And Debian poses the dreaded stable/unstable dilemma ;)
[05:17] <schweeb> "dilemma"?
[05:17] <schweeb> no dilemma
[05:17] <dieman> xTina: i've got a hacked version of autoinstall i use with woody, im going to start investigating how to make d-i do what i want as soon as i get a chance
[05:17] <schweeb> just don't use stable
[05:17] <schweeb> <3 testing/unstable
[05:18] <logik1> schweeb: Just the x86 iso or all the isos?
[05:18] <schweeb> I've been running unstable on this laptop for 2 years straight... haven't lost any functionality for more than an hour... nothing I couldn't figure out how to fix
[05:18] <SmokingFire> So when is gnome going to have an apple like volume control?
[05:18] <schweeb> logik1: I downloaded the mini ISO, which was 4.5MB
[05:19] <logik1> schweeb: I can throwing up the follow iso on a oc-24 backbone.
[05:19] <SmokingFire> e.g. click one half volume. second click quater volume and third is off.
[05:19] <schweeb> and I'm downloading debs off archive. at 45K/s
[05:19] <schweeb> SmokingFire: ewww
[05:19] <schweeb> that'd have to be optional
[05:19] <dieman> xTina: the hard part is getting 'network', most likely I'll break down and go back to using dhcp.
[05:19] <dieman> xTina: aside from that, then come up with a way to acquire debconf answers given a machine name
[05:19] <Hrdwr_BoB> SmokingFire, put your mouse over the speaker and scroll the wheel.
[05:19] <Hrdwr_BoB> when apple can match that
[05:20] <Hrdwr_BoB> they will have funally got rid of that retarded mouse
[05:20] <dieman> xTina: most likely using a stacked debconf db if possible
[05:20] <dieman> dono if cdebconf does those yet.
[05:20] <dieman> might have to come up with a way that copies them into cdebconf, but then doesn't copy them locally at base-config
[05:20] <schweeb> oooh
[05:21] <schweeb> dieman: you done a decent bit of hacking w/ debconf then?
[05:21] <dieman> dono, ive not tought about it much
[05:21] <dieman> schweeb: not really, i've used stacked databases though.
[05:21] <dieman> it depends on your definition of hacking
[05:21] <schweeb> I've attempted to use the LDAP backend, but didn't really do anything with it
[05:21] <dieman> yeah, never used ldap
[05:22] <dieman> i've usually stacked using automounted nfs paritions
[05:22] <dieman> and the PackageDir driver
[05:22] <SmokingFire> Hrdwr_BoB, nice tip
[05:22] <dieman> Name: remotedb
[05:22] <dieman> Driver: PackageDir
[05:22] <dieman> Directory: /project/linux/debian3/debconf/config/
[05:22] <dieman> Readonly: true
[05:22] <dieman> Required: false
[05:22] <dieman> for instance
[05:22] <schweeb> there wasn't much good documentation on the sorts of stuff you could do w/ it
[05:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> SmokingFire, cheers, I found it because I tried it, and it seemed to be a sensible thing to do, and it worked :)
[05:24] <logik1> Ok, can everyone test some speeds? http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso
[05:24] <SmokingFire> defendguin, ok I got this from the linux distro Yoper forums,
[05:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> logik1, SLooooooow
[05:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> 13k/s now
[05:24] <SmokingFire> make a directory
[05:24] <SmokingFire> /mnt/loop and /mnt/yos ...then mount the iso on the loop filesystem, and copy all the files from the /mnt/loop directory to /mnt/yos.
[05:24] <SmokingFire> Then do your chroot and make sure you mount proc.
[05:25] <logik1> Hrdwr_BoB: what connection you on?
[05:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> logik1, 100mbit
[05:25] <dieman> logik1: its *slow*
[05:26] <schweeb> heh
[05:26] <schweeb> owned
[05:26] <logik1> schweeb: very.
[05:26] <dieman> i'll admit though
[05:26] <dieman> its faster than ftp.cs.umn.edu right now
[05:26] <logik1> ha.
[05:27] <dieman> but there isn't 300+ people downloading from t either
[05:27] <dieman> it
[05:27] <SmokingFire> defendguin, here are the instructions step by step: http://www.yoper.com/forum2/index.php?showtopic=1563&st=0&
[05:27] <logik1> dieman: 29 people are download ATM.
[05:27] <dieman> 350 requests currently being processed, 0 idle workers
[05:27] <dieman> jeezus
[05:27] <dieman> the server is full.
[05:27] <dieman> 350 is where we start crying uncle
[05:27] <dieman> and turning people away
[05:27] <dieman> i should really be doing it at like 150-200 tho
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> we had a single website pull a constant 4mb/s for months
[05:28] <pr0c> from http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso i get < 15kbps from my server at ev1servers
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> stupid fucks
[05:28] <logik1> remind me never to VI a 100meg log.
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> it was a constant refresh webcam
[05:28] <logik1> its cap'd
[05:28] <logik1> I am working on it.
[05:28] <daniels> Hrdwr_BoB: hm, should be quicker from fooishbar
[05:28] <daniels> Hrdwr_BoB: got somewhere I can scp it to?
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> daniels, hm?
[05:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> hangon
[05:29] <daniels> HOLY SHIT MY PLANE LEAVES IN 45MIN
[05:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> ?
[05:29] <npmccallum> daniels: bye then :)
[05:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> bye now!
[05:30] <neighborlee> daniels, be safe
[05:31] <dieman> heh
[05:31] <dieman> in the usa we call that a missed flight, now
[05:31] <neighborlee> heh
[05:37] <ianw> is ubuntu planning on supporting ia64?
[05:37] <jdub> ianw: not atm
[05:38] <neighborlee> 2 minutes! lol
[05:38] <Clint> is ubuntu-users a new list or an old one renamed?
[05:38] <dieman> renamed
[05:38] <jdub> Clint: new, basically (it's roughly equivalent to sounder)
[05:38] <dieman> oh
[05:38] <dieman> n/m
[05:39] <dieman> 21:17 < daniels> bdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list
[05:39] <dieman> 21:18 < bdale> gee, thanks.  list renames suck.
[05:39] <dieman> thats what i saw eariler
[05:39] <Clint> so I should continue to filter sounder then
[05:39] <jdub> Clint: it'll phase out, we've split to devel and users
[05:40] <Clint> righty-o then
[05:41] <mdz> jdub: who did you subscribe to -devel? staff?
[05:41] <dieman> someone should port gcombust to gtk 2.x
[05:41] <dieman> just so this whole k3b is god thing goes away.
[05:42] <dieman> :)
[05:42] <schweeb> god
[05:42] <jdub> mdz: no one
[05:43] <jdub> mdz: everyone's on users, devel's opt-in
[05:43] <schweeb> I hate installing the whole QT framework just for that ONE app you need
[05:43] <schweeb> </3 k3b
[05:43] <dieman> yeah
[05:43] <dieman> like a honest to god ppp dialer like kppp
[05:45] <Espectro> is there a package listing somewhere?
[05:46] <dieman> in the wiki there are descriptions of the 'seeds'
[05:46] <dieman> those are the supported packages
[05:46] <dieman> as to the 'universe' packages, i would just use apt-cache search
[05:47] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:47] <dieman> otherwise, dont think theres an online search yet
[05:47] <dieman> hey fabbione
[05:47] <dieman> happy release day
[05:47] <fabbione> dieman: thanks :-)
[05:47] <s0dak1ng> so how is this distro?
[05:47] <wasabi> Hahahaha.
[05:47] <wasabi> This channel has more people than #goneme!!!
[05:47] <wasabi> *snicker*
[05:47] <Espectro> all right
[05:47] <Espectro> why did you guys wait for the next beta to switch to x.org
[05:48] <dieman> heh
[05:48] <wasabi> Espectro, i'd imagine because debian is waiting for it to be autoconf'd.
[05:48] <schweeb> because Xorg full release was... yesterday?
[05:48] <dieman> fabbione should know, my guess is that cross-platform-stuff aint working yet, as usual.
[05:48] <dieman> and that forking from the XSF builds would be a huge undertaking
[05:49] <schweeb> and it's probably fairly difficult to wrangle Xorg into debian
[05:49] <dieman> because of the amount of insane work branden also does
[05:49] <schweeb> they wanna do it correctly
[05:49] <schweeb> and then submit their findings to debian main
[05:49] <Espectro> what do you mean full release? 6.7 has been available for half a year, and 6.8 for just a little, and a lot longer than gnome 2.8
[05:49] <jdub> Espectro: we were hoping to include X.org, but this is our first release, and there was a lot of other work to do :-)
[05:49] <schweeb> from what I understand
[05:49] <schweeb> gnome 2.8 was already on its way into Debian Experimental (or was that ubuntu's doing?)
[05:50] <jdub> Espectro: most of the benefits of X.org will arrive on the same timeline as our next release, so it was not a huge loss
[05:51] <xTina> Off to bed ... n8 everyone
[05:51] <m_tthew> xTina: night
[05:51] <dieman> xTina: nght
[05:51] <dieman> dilinger: yo
[05:52] <m_tthew> xTina: hope you mentioned 'ubuntu' in your bug report w/ apple :)
[05:52] <Espectro> is java going to be included, like slackware does?
[05:52] <m_tthew> 2late
[05:52] <mako> Espectro: non-free java?
[05:52] <Espectro> evil, full featured, sun's java
[05:52] <Espectro> :)
[05:52] <wasabi> Espectro, that's not legal.
[05:52] <Espectro> how does slackware do it?
[05:52] <wasabi> Espectro, accroding to the license you click I Agree to when you download Java from sun's site.
[05:53] <wasabi> I have no idea.
[05:53] <wasabi> Ask them.
[05:53] <mako> unfortunately, we've got these anonying licensing guideilnes :)
[05:53] <schweeb> probably a download script
[05:53] <wasabi> Yeah.
[05:53] <schweeb> you agree to the license, it downloads and installs for you
[05:53] <dieman> wasabi: actually, its ok to redistribute with the clickthrough license, i've seen debs that someone made up that sun was ok with
[05:53] <schweeb> like flashplugin-nonfree
[05:53] <Espectro> hmm, they even have netscape
[05:53] <dopey> nice work guys.. looks like ubuntu/canonical is starting to really take off.
[05:53] <dieman> wasabi: so what i usually do is download them and strip the license out for local use.
[05:54] <jdub> Espectro: it will probably be easily installable at some stage, but not just yet :)
[05:54] <wasabi> dieman, we've got java-package in debian expecting to make that easier.
[05:54] <dieman> s/license/clickthrough stuff/g
[05:54] <mako> even if it meant a special deal, we want to maintain a distro that others can fork.. in others case, that may mean adding something like java. but we're not going to do anything that blocks further derivative works ourselves
[05:54] <wasabi> The java policy in debian isn't exactly "good" though.
[05:54] <Espectro> i think you guys need a DeveloperSeed or something
[05:54] <mako> Espectro: sounds like a reasonable project
[05:55] <fabbione> guys there is no need to guess anything for Xorg/Xfree86 ubuntu/debian
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: most of our developer tools are in the SupportedSeed
[05:55] <Espectro> to list packages for development, i don't seem to find databases
[05:55] <fabbione> there was not enough time to switch the tree for warty
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: we need to keep the number of seeds down for simplicity ;)
[05:55] <wasabi> How will you deal with closed source drivers?
[05:55] <wasabi> Such as ATI and Nvidia.
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: they're in SupportedSeed
[05:55] <Espectro> oh, ok
[05:55] <fabbione> it will happen for hoary in full cooperation with debian
[05:56] <schweeb> wasabi: NVIDIA allows distribution now
[05:56] <schweeb> dunno bout ATI
[05:56] <wasabi> So you will be including it with the distro, even though it isn't open source.
[05:56] <wasabi> ie a marked divergence from debian
[05:56] <schweeb> there's a restricted branch
[05:56] <schweeb> with non-free stuff
[05:57] <Espectro> i appreciate debian's tools, but i think they have outdated stuff, partly because they have the same packages for tens of architectures
[05:57] <schweeb> wasabi: you can get nvidia drivers in debian too
[05:57] <Espectro> i have always wanted a debian-x86 fork
[05:57] <schweeb> they're somewhere in non-free I believe
[05:57] <Espectro> that has recent but stable packages
[05:57] <wasabi> huh maybe they are
[05:57] <schweeb> I always download the latest NVIDIAs anywawys
[05:57] <wasabi> they used to grab from nvidia's site at one point
[05:58] <dieman> heh zdnet au covered ubuntu
[05:58] <schweeb> oh, they most certainly 100% are in one of the main debian branches
[05:58] <dieman> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39159573,00.htm
[05:58] <wasabi> okay, so maybe I was wrong.
[05:58] <schweeb> I know tons of people that install nvidia from apt
[05:58] <wasabi> I wonder then if sun's java can be included in non-free.
[05:58] <schweeb> but probably in non-free
[05:58] <Espectro> nvidia is hard to install from debian
[05:59] <wasabi> not really.
[05:59] <Espectro> i always get confused from the multiple packages names
[05:59] <schweeb> no
[05:59] <schweeb> it isn't difficult at all
[05:59] <schweeb> if I wasn't installing at the moment, I'd tell you exactly how to do it
[05:59] <schweeb> it's not that many steps
[05:59] <dieman> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39159436,00.htm <-- oh look, its more jeff!
[05:59] <Espectro> i dont have debian anymore but i remember that the official instructions included getting inside a dir manually to compile and make a .deb package or something
[05:59] <dieman> he had a busy week
[05:59] <mdz> in ubuntu, you need to install only one package for nvidia
[06:00] <mdz> and then reconfigure X to use the driver
[06:00] <dieman> you guys have the problem that dri gets busted if you have nvidia-glx installed and not using nvidia?
[06:00] <Espectro> in gentoo i just emerge one thing, and in other distros i install the nvidia-kernel and nvidia-glx package, that's it
[06:00] <jay> nice and solid release on ubuntu
[06:00] <jay> except for wireless networking
[06:00] <schweeb> Espectro: ....
[06:01] <schweeb> debian has nvidia-module and nvidia-glx, or something similar
[06:01] <schweeb> do you have a debian box?
[06:01] <Espectro> not anymore
[06:01] <schweeb> vanilla debian that is
[06:01] <sanxiyn> schweeb: I do. I am on it now :-)
[06:01] <Dr_Willis> Hello all
[06:01] <Espectro> i COULD install nvidia's, but it was harder than other distros
[06:02] <Espectro> i am glad this distro has done something about it
[06:02] <mdz> jay: what went wrong?
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Since I don't have nVidia card, I don't care...
[06:02] <schweeb> heh
[06:02] <Espectro> ati fan, huh
[06:02] <jay> mdz: network-admin just locked on me would not work on dhcp or manually
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Intell onboard graphic is the 1st graphics card in the market in terms of share, I think.
[06:02] <jay> had to add the config manually
[06:02] <schweeb> ugh
[06:02] <schweeb> i810?
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Yes.
[06:03] <jay> gonna be a bi*t*h to do this each time i boot
[06:03] <sanxiyn> It's the fact of life.
[06:03] <mdz> jay: #1069?
[06:03] <Dr_Willis> ANyone tried this Ubunto on AMD64 based machines yet? - Been trying to test out all the 64bit disrtos on my laptop.
[06:03] <jay> also why no icons on my desktop
[06:03] <mdz> Dr_Willis: yes
[06:03] <jay> mdz: ???
[06:03] <mdz> jay: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1069
[06:03] <mdz> jay: same bug?
[06:03] <jdub> Dr_Willis: there have been quite a few successful installs so far :)
[06:03] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  of course most of my issues with amd64 are lated to my Emachine laptop 6811
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> heh - checking the wiki and forums for any success stories in that ares
[06:04] <jay> mdz: yes
[06:04] <mdz> Dr_Willis: I'm not sure if it has been tried on an amd64 laptop; it works quite well on desktops
[06:04] <jay> why no icons on desktop
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  yea. Ive had decent luck with Gentoo and its Emachine kernel.
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> but had other issues with gentoo :P
[06:05] <mdz> jdub: care to update the FAQ on that one?
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> SUSE 9.1's amd64 support is lacking in ways also.
[06:05] <Espectro> are you guys promoting the "one app for each role" motto, or will you be prostituting everything?
[06:05] <mdz> Dr_Willis: what's different about the Emachine kernel?
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  not sure really - I think its some patches mainly to fix the buggy bios
[06:05] <wasabi> Under the license to distrbute Sun's JVM:
[06:05] <wasabi> (vi) you agree to defen d and indemnify Sun
[06:05] <wasabi> and its licensors from and against any damages, costs,
[06:05] <wasabi> liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including
[06:05] <wasabi> attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,
[06:05] <wasabi> lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results
[06:05] <wasabi> from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or
[06:05] <wasabi> Software.
[06:05] <wasabi> I'd say that pretty much terminates that idea.
[06:06] <jdub> mdz: icons? was just looking to see if someone wrote one ;)
[06:06] <mdz> jdub: yes :-)
[06:06] <jay> anyone?
[06:06] <mdz> jdub: something like "you love it! you know you do!"
[06:06] <jdub> haha
[06:06] <Dr_Willis> heh - still downloading the iso.. then i gotta install it.
[06:06] <xxor> sup all
[06:06] <jdub> jay: hold on, going to write a faq entry
[06:06] <xxor> how do I install packages
[06:06] <jdub> jay: basically, it's all available in the computer menu
[06:06] <Dr_Willis> this is now the 2nd dsrto i need to test out. downloaded Yoper yesterday
[06:06] <Espectro> that says if you cost money to sun from distribute their software they will bill you, not relevant here
[06:06] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i got emachin 6805
[06:07] <jdub> jay: and whenever you're working on stuff, you can't see the desktop anyway :)
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:how was yoper?
[06:07] <jay> jdub: very true
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Not had a chance to install it yet. :P
[06:07] <mdz> xxor: if you like the command line, try 'aptitude search <regex>' and 'aptitude install <package>'
[06:07] <Amroc> good job on the slashdot guys
[06:07] <sanxiyn> Is AMD64 port of Ubuntu based on debian-amd64?
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also userlinux
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i just noticed that THIS one had amd64 iso :P
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yah me too..i will download it soon
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yea - not seen if userlinux has amd64 support. i dident think it did
[06:07] <mdz> xxor: if you prefer a graphical interface, you may want to try Computer->System Configuration->Synaptic
[06:07] <clee> ew. synaptic sucks.
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also debian amd64
[06:08] <wasabi> clee, heretic. Synaptic is rad.
[06:08] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:fedora 2
[06:08] <clee> wasabi: um, no.
[06:08] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  thats recently new eh?
[06:08] <clee> wasabi: you lose.
[06:08] <jdub> clee: we'll have some interesting other stuff for Hoary
[06:08] <mdz> sanxiyn: no, it is based on unstable
[06:08] <Dr_Willis> SO far ive tried SUSE 9.1, and Gentoo.
[06:08] <wasabi> clee, I know for a fact I never lose.
[06:08] <clee> jdub: Good.
[06:08] <clee> jdub: Because seriously, synaptic is weak.
[06:08] <Amroc> i have a question: lamont said that you 'didnt' release the preview today...because of problems, is this true or is thre new stuff out?
[06:08] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yeah i am also looking for the best amd64 linux distro
[06:08] <sanxiyn> mdz: Eh, but there's no AMD64 architecture in Sid...?
[06:09] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:do u have MSN messenger and such? we can keep in touch
[06:09] <mdz> Amroc: he said what?  preview released today on schedule, according to plan
[06:09] <xxor> where has this dist been hiding at
[06:09] <xxor> hehe
[06:09] <jdub> clee: it's okay for a certain class of user. it doesn't deserve slanging, though.
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  so far Gentoo has been #1 - But the problem ith gentoo was that most every package was 'masked' on the amd64 part.
[06:09] <lamont> Amroc: I said we didn't release a LIVECD today
[06:09] <mdz> sanxiyn: right, we based it on the source code in unstable and made fixes for amd64 as needed
[06:09] <clee> jdub: it's definitely not usable for the most-commonly-used functions imho
[06:09] <jdub> xxor: you don't want to enable your root account either, btw. leave it as it is for a while :)
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i rarely ise the im clents. I'm on here most every day :P
[06:09] <jdub> clee: for the majority of users, no
[06:09] <Amroc> way to piss off glen though lamont
[06:09] <clee> jdub: What is really required is something that does the bare minimum of 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade'
[06:09] <clee> jdub: but in a pretty GUI with summaries and whatnot
[06:09] <wasabi> clee, synaptic plans to add a wizard for that
[06:10] <Amroc> meep
[06:10] <jdub> clee: we have some stuff planned for hoary
[06:10] <wasabi> i was talking with one of the maintainers at one point
[06:10] <lamont> Amroc: I really did feel bad about that though...  OTOH, he was much more relieved that way...
[06:10] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i guess i will let u be the g.pig to see how this distro is on our laptop lol
[06:10] <xxor> jdub: the machine I installed on is non-routable and locked down by router access list
[06:10] <schweeb> meh, synaptic is weak
[06:10] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:should i flash my bios to 6809 or 6811?
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i'd heard the 6811 stff fixes a lot. But its still a risk.
[06:10] <sanxiyn> mdz: Was there some problem with http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/ ? (95% complete in their own words.)
[06:11] <Espectro> where are the obligatory screenshots, that will kill your server?
[06:11] <xxor> jdub: can I add normal debian sources ? so I can install unstable packages
[06:11] <sanxiyn> mdz: Or was it easy to just start from the scratch?
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  do you have an issue where an External mouse (usb) isent seen on boot up? under windows OR linux? untill you unplug/plug it back in?
[06:11] <jdub> xxor: no, just uncomment the 'universe' lines and use those - most of debian is available, albeit unsupported
[06:11] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yes..
[06:11] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: sometimes
[06:12] <xxor> jdub: who writes this dist
[06:12] <mdz> sanxiyn: most of what the debian-amd64 project provided was build infrastructure, package repository, etc.
[06:12] <mdz> sanxiyn: we have our own infrastructure for that
[06:12] <sanxiyn> Ah. Thank you for clarification.
[06:12] <jdub> xxor: it's based on debian, the first release was wholly developed by employees of canonical
[06:12] <wasabi> I'd like to see the multi-arch spec implemented.
[06:12] <wasabi> In fact I'd give money to see it implemented. ;)
[06:12] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:actually ..that happens only when after inside windows i unplug it ...
[06:12] <xxor> jdub: never heard of that corporation
[06:12] <mdz> wasabi: it's something we are investigating
[06:13] <xxor> jdub: is it non-profit ?
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  friend at work has a 6805, i had a 6809
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i haven't had that problem for a month after i don't move my laptop anymore
[06:13] <wasabi> mdz, /lib/i386-linux/, /lib/amd85-linux/
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i had that problem when i was moving my laptop and unplugging the usb mouse on and off
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> ie had issues with it. But my 09 never had the issue.. i got an 6811 and  it has the problem all the time
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:but when idont move it i dont got issues anymore
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  this is sitting there from a cold boot.
[06:13] <clee> amd85?
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:oh..then i dont have that problem
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:try a diff usb port
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  what mouse port ya use? 2 on side? or back?
[06:14] <jdub> xxor: canonical isn't, no
[06:14] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: try install the NEWEST SYNAPTIC mouse driver
[06:14] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Hmm.. good idea there.
[06:14] <xxor> jdub: so the 'gold' version will cost ?
[06:14] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: i use the 1 closer to the tab key on the left side
[06:14] <sanxiyn> xxor: I guess "no".
[06:14] <jdub> xxor: no
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Hmm. thats the same i am useing.. fruend says his works on the back left one Only...
[06:15] <jdub> xxor: see ubuntulinux.org and canonical.com
[06:15] <Espectro> why make your x86 packages i386?
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  somthing is real flakey here. :P
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:over all i love the laptop..playing the newest games on it with no problem
[06:15] <Espectro> i dont think anyone on a 386 is gonna use this...
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:tribes:vengenace, doom 3, and such
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep. :P
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> is tribes Vengance out?
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i upgraded my ram to 3200 and hd to 7200
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> I got the demo.
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:the open beta is out
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Espectro: I guess it uses i386 instructions with i686 scheduling.
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  cool. but the full is due out like nest month eh?
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Espectro: That's nearly as fast as i686 compiled packages.
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> hmm should i get the beta.. :P lol
[06:16] <xxor> jdub: incorporated in isle of man , that doesnt look too positive .. corporate tax evasion shelter =]  heh
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Hm, am I correct?
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:www.fileplanet.com
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  ya got to be a member?
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:just have to register
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:no need to pay
[06:17] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  cool.  Not like tht Lame WoW beta
[06:17] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i downloaded that but didn't even try it haha
[06:18] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  lol. :P i hear its very good.
[06:18] <xxor> jdub: just a joke .. everything looks awsome , gnome even has extensions for firebird to open links , very nice
[06:18] <Dr_Willis> i'd liek to try it - but the beta testing is closed i hear.
[06:18] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:anywayz its over now
[06:19] <lamont> Mithrandir: you around, or sleeping?
[06:19] <jay> ok not to keen on this networking thing not working... but other than 2 lockups, ubuntu is pretty cook
[06:19] <jay> cool
[06:19] <s0dak1ng> jay:is it fast
[06:20] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:u still there?
[06:20] <jay> i have a 1ghz with 512m ram ibm thinkpad
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> yeppers
[06:20] <jay> not bad
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> bittorrent has 51% done
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:20] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i am using xp..i can just format my 2nd partition, and install it on it right
[06:21] <Neg> azureus is taking a lot more resources than it usually does with this torrent
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep shoudl be able to.
[06:21] <s0dak1ng> neg:azureus is 2 slow..(java) use ABC torrent..its much better
[06:21] <jay> crap another lockup
[06:21] <jay> now its evolution
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  doh. i forgot when i reisntalled xp on my laptop it laied out my partions funny - lol
[06:21] <jay> grrrr
[06:21] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:what boot manger does it use?
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i wold guess GRUB - :P not tried it yet
[06:21] <Neg> azureus is fine
[06:21] <Neg> i'm not worried about the speed
[06:22] <Neg> it's just acting different now
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:3rd lockups in a row?
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:uh oh
[06:22] <jay> yea, gonna go back to suse 9.1
[06:22] <jay> unfortunately no gnome 2.8 there
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:u tried yoper, userlinux yet?
[06:23] <jay> nope i havent
[06:23] <Dr_Willis> so now i got 3 disrtos to test out. Userlinux, Yoper, and ubuntu
[06:23] <Dr_Willis> been a busy week for new disrtos :P
[06:23] <s0dak1ng> jay:for some reason i never wanted to try distros like mantrake, suse
[06:23] <george_> whats the scoop on Mono?  Are you planning to include it?
[06:23] <s0dak1ng> jay:just feels too ........bloated and ...
[06:24] <tseng> george_: not in this release
[06:24] <jdub> george_: it's not in Warty, but perhaps for the next release
[06:24] <jay> aargggh. locked again
[06:24] <xxor> so I can add normal debian sources .. and install packages ?
[06:24] <tseng> george_: atm im trying to rebuild the debina packages on warty
[06:24] <sanxiyn> george_: Debian already includes much Mono stuffs.
[06:24] <jdub> xxor: you don't add debian sources
[06:24] <tseng> debian*
[06:24] <jdub> xxor: just uncomment the ones in sources.list
[06:24] <Dr_Willis> wow - i rember now why I NEVER go to fileplanet, or gamespy sites - they want me to pay or wait for downloads... guess they cant handle bittorrent
[06:24] <george_> just wondering as I have a gfax package writen in C#, it uses hylafax
[06:24] <sanxiyn> xxor: "universe" thing.
[06:24] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:one thing i dont like about linux is...there is always new distros and i waste too much time updating packages than using them
[06:24] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:so 1 year ago i said fuck it and been using xp since
[06:24] <jdub> george_: you're the gfax author?
[06:24] <tseng> the mono packages in universe seem broken
[06:25] <george_> yup
[06:25] <jdub> george_: i've been meaning to get in touch with you about it :)
[06:25] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep. thats good an bad. :P sort of like a House made of legos.. ya are always playign with it.
[06:25] <Neg> try filefront.com for game torrent downloads
[06:25] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:which in itself is a waste of time
[06:25] <xxor> jdub: sorry I misunderstood before , I found it
[06:25] <xxor> thanks
[06:25] <george_> I'm redoing the UI at the monment, a bit more HIG
[06:25] <jdub> george_: excellent!
[06:25] <jdub> george_: working on integration with libgnomeprint and/or cups?
[06:26] <george_> Damn theres the phone, you could email me george @gmsys.com
[06:26] <george_> see ya
[06:26] <npmccallum> tseng: it is :)
[06:26] <sanxiyn> bye!
[06:26] <xxor> lame+=
[06:26] <xxor> =/+
[06:26] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:how fast are u downloading at?
[06:26] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  not if you are learning stuff
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> its 72%done now :P
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i rather get stuff done that keep rebuilding everything
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> 429k/s
[06:27] <xxor> GRRRRRRR
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> Gesh! :P i dident think i could download that fast
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> lol
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: s/that/than
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  so get stuff done. :P self controll
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i have absolutely 0 will power
[06:28] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  one of the "Ritlin Generation" eh?
[06:28] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:29] <xxor> any of the developers here ?
[06:29] <s0dak1ng> my 2 favorite it sites are slashdot and osnews..now both reporting this distro lol
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> 87% downloaded by bittottent :P
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> guess thers a LOT of torrent users out there.
[06:30] <xxor> I wouldnt bother
[06:30] <xxor> its very buggy
[06:30] <xxor> doesnt support my burners by default
[06:30] <xxor> very limited packages
[06:30] <xxor> regular debian stuff doesnt seem to install right
[06:30] <schweeb> Dr_Willis: ritalin
[06:30] <xxor> hence why its 'unsupported'
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> schweeb,  viagra! :P
[06:30] <s0dak1ng> xxor:u talkign about ubuntu?
[06:31] <xxor> because there so many bugs they cant possibly answer all the email
[06:31] <xxor> s0dak1ng: yeah
[06:31] <s0dak1ng> xxor:not worth it to try?
[06:31] <xxor> s0dak1ng: no
[06:31] <xxor> its lame++
[06:31] <schweeb> sounds like you just don't know what you're doing
[06:31] <schweeb> "doesn't support my burners by default"
[06:31] <xxor> schweeb: 10 years running linux
[06:32] <xxor> I know when something is lame
[06:32] <xxor> and this is
[06:32] <schweeb> if they're burners worth anything, then they're ATAPI
[06:32] <schweeb> nothing needs to be "supported", they just speak it
[06:32] <xxor> schweeb: make whatever excuses you want
[06:32] <xxor> this dist is lame++
[06:32] <jdub> xxor: we have a supported set of packages, and 'universe'
[06:32] <xxor> nothing is configured right
[06:32] <schweeb> troll.
[06:33] <jdub> universe is a snapshot of debian main
[06:33] <phlaegel> maybe it's just not configured exactly as you think it should be... plenty of other people like it just fine.
[06:33] <jdub> we could not take the time to fix everything in universe for warty
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: then apt-get'ing should work right ?
[06:33] <jdub> but i imagine that's one of the first things that our community developers will want to do for hoary
[06:33] <jdub> xxor: sure, in most cases
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: I run unstable debian .. works fine , I just tried to apt-get install <name> and it failed
[06:33] <phlaegel> it's clearly a preview release, but a good one, IMO.
[06:33] <xxor> so
[06:33] <jdub> xxor: what's not working for you?
[06:33] <xxor> obviously something is wrong
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: apt-get install <any_package_name>
[06:34] <tvon> xxor: what exactly is happening
[06:34] <jdub> xxor: what are you trying to install, and what happens? (paste)
[06:34] <schweeb> xxor: details are key
[06:34] <schweeb> as are supporting bugreports
[06:34] <xxor> well , this will look minor im sure
[06:34] <xxor> but it works in unstable (regular debian box)
[06:34] <xxor> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:34] <xxor>   k3b: Depends: kdebase-bin but it is not installable
[06:34] <xxor> E: Broken packages
[06:34] <schweeb> is that in universe?
[06:34] <schweeb> or main?
[06:34] <xxor> universe
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: which lines are uncommented in your sources.list?
[06:35] <schweeb> universe is unsupported
[06:35] <tvon> should k3b even be available?
[06:35] <jdub> schweeb: hold on a sec :)
[06:35] <xxor> jdub: you told me to uncomment the universe lines
[06:35] <schweeb> jdub: okay okay, heh
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: okay, and did you apt-get update?
[06:35] <mdz> jdub: looks like kdebase-bin is not built in universe
[06:35] <lifeless> jdub: so, can I congratulate you on a release now ?
[06:35] <xxor> jdub: yessir I did
[06:35] <jdub> mdz: aha.
[06:35] <jdub> lifeless: not me, the team
[06:35] <lifeless> ....ok then. Congrats to the team.
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: okay, so mdz has verified that kdebase-bin was not built in universe, so those packages are unavailable
[06:35] <schweeb> could add an unstable source to your list to get kdebase-bin
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:almost done ??
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:please test it ASAP
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: ok well , thats real lame
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  its done :P
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:OKAY GOGOGOGO
[06:36] <mdz> schweeb: that's not generally a good idea, for the reasons outlined in the FAQ
[06:36] <jdub> xxor: so that doesn't mean the distro is lame, it just means that part of our unsupported set is not working
[06:36] <schweeb> mdz: I like to live dangerously ;)
[06:36] <jdub> xxor: that's totally fixable too, by the way
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  but I gotta redo my partition.:P or can the isntaller repartion a ntfs partion?
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:god damn
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: I dont feel like hacking shit to work .. mdk is lame++ and works better than this
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:so u have to format xp again?
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: so does gentoo
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: you don't need to hack shit
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: you're trying to use an unsupported package that happens to be broken
[06:37] <schweeb> mdz: I live by my daily "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" in sid
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: if you could file a bug on that, we should be able to fix it
[06:37] <xxor> jdub: it works fine in regular debian and debian unstable
[06:37] <phlaegel> unsupported packages not working in a preview release??? *gasp* what are we going to do??? ;-)
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: sure - this is not regular debian :)
[06:37] <mako> night everyone
[06:37] <xxor> phlaegel: you should label the bug ridden garbage if you cant install anything from kde
[06:37] <mdz> mako: night
[06:37] <schweeb> xxor: sorry to be a dick, but you need to calm down, and reasonably go through this, because what you are doing is on the brink of trolling... if not actually trolling
[06:37] <xxor> he led me to believe it was good , had gnome 2.8 supported
[06:38] <s0dak1ng> lol xxor is funny
[06:38] <mako> oh shit! i forgot a blog entry today.. i think i have a backup for such an occasion
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: yes, gnome 2.8 is supported, but kde is not supported
[06:38] <phlaegel> hm. *unsupported*. *preview*. hm.
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: in many cases, packages 'just work' from universe
[06:38] <tvon> Ubuntu is a GNOME based distro
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: in this case, you've found one that doesn't -> that can be fixed, hwoever
[06:38] <xxor> jdub: wheres the bug/development servers ..
[06:39] <tvon> xxor: /topic
[06:39] <jdub> (note that we generally concentrate on fixing supported stuff)
[06:39] <schweeb> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:39] <s0dak1ng> is there a message board yet?
[06:39] <mako> but if it's simple
[06:39] <tvon> s0dak1ng: mailing list
[06:39] <jdub> s0dak1ng: we have mailing lists, forums coming soon :)
[06:39] <mako> s0dak1ng: there will be one
[06:39] <schweeb> phlaegel: it's like having a boberz, but in #ubuntu :p
[06:39] <mako> s0dak1ng: not yet
[06:39] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  I have a linux-rescue-cd that CAN resize NTFS partions.. but not sure if this disrtos installer can do that as well.
[06:39] <s0dak1ng> no php/vBBS/invision boards??????????....haha
[06:39] <phlaegel> schweeb: heh
[06:39] <Dr_Willis> anyone know? - Can The Ubuntu Installer resize a ntfs partition?
[06:40] <jdub> Dr_Willis: it doesn't do ntfs resize
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> jdub,  diddly dang. :P
[06:40] <jdub> yeah :|
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> gotta find that other cd then Lol
[06:40] <xxor> jdub: how bigs the development team
[06:40] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:oh well..reformat then?
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> it was somthing linux-rescue cd
[06:40] <fabbione> mdz: did you build the nv driver on amd64?
[06:40] <tseng> xxor: 34
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  NO :P no need to reformat.
[06:40] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:do you have partition pro magic?
[06:40] <jdub> xxor: 34 employees of canonical, about half working directly on the distro
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  No need for that either. Thers a Live cd w0th 'qt_Parted' that CAN resize NTFS's
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> I used it all the time :) sort of a opensourced PM clone
[06:41] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:aight..whatever u say..just do it fast!
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> if i can find the cd
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: no, I haven't yet
[06:41] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:quix quix
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: I forgot in my sleeplessness
[06:42] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also progeny debian linux ..try that as well!
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: :-)))
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  all at once! :P
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: no big deal
[06:42] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:and libranet
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: i386 reports 4/5 success. the 1 missing is a small glitch that i think i know how to solve
[06:43] <xxor> jdub: if its released for free, I dont see the incentive for full-time corp. development
[06:44] <xxor> jdub: the team is made up from various industry people right ? people from gnome/project etc .. its not a physical building with 34 actual employees coding right ?
[06:44] <mdz> xxor: correct, they are spread out
[06:44] <jdub> tseng: do you want to post your repositories to ubuntu-devel?
[06:44] <Dr_Willis> for those that want to know --->  http://www.sysresccd.org/   is the home of the "SytemRescueCD" a live cd. that has qtparted (a partion magic clone) and other tools.
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> its WELL worth downloading and having a cd of it in your tool box.
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:45] <schweeb> I quite dislike qtparted
[06:45] <clee> schweeb: heh. why?
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> schweeb,  it works for me.
[06:45] <schweeb> well, for one thing, if you X out of it, it doesn't ask you if you want to commit
[06:45] <tseng> jdub: this is my first time working with debs in several years
[06:46] <tseng> jdub: so.. it might take awhile :)
[06:46] <schweeb> which got me not once, but twice
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> X out of it. :P thats an interesting "verb"
[06:46] <schweeb> heh
[06:46] <xxor> found a solution
[06:46] <xxor> to some bugs
[06:46] <npmccallum> tseng: are you doing just mono? or monodevelop (et al) as well?
[06:46] <xxor> :P
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: ok ;)
[06:46] <schweeb> mmm mono
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> i had to explaine to several windows users to be sure to "write" changes to disk when useing fdisk.
[06:46] <tseng> npmccallum: right now im shooting to get mono working + muine
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: are you building from universe sources or from debian sid?
[06:46] <tseng> and blam
[06:46] <tseng> jdub: from sid
[06:46] <npmccallum> tseng: cool
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: ok
[06:46] <tseng> it seems to have a "circular dep" if you will
[06:47] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:have u tried the latest windows xp 64 beta?
[06:47] <tvon> tseng: I was able to install/build mono packages from sid without any problems.  You need to have mcs to build mcs which is kind of a pain, but I just fetched that from unstable
[06:47] <tseng> ie, i need to install a binary of mono compiler to build the deps to install the mono compiler :)
[06:47] <jdub> tseng: (kinda necessary for the latest mono-based apps, but if you have fixes for the packages in universe, we can fix them)
[06:47] <tseng> yep yep
[06:47] <xxor> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
[06:48] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  ive heard to AVOIDE it like the Plague :P
[06:48] <schweeb> hrm
[06:48] <tseng> jdub: im fetching the sources from sid, and rebuilding against ubuntu basically..
[06:48] <schweeb> when is mono expected to make it in to main?
[06:48] <tseng> when its all done daniels said he'll host it
[06:48] <jdub> tseng: yeah
[06:48] <tseng> schweeb: next release
[06:48] <schweeb> Hoary?
[06:49] <jdub> schweeb: yeah
[06:49] <tseng> yes that
[06:49] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:okay the zip file is erased from my hd as if it was the plague
[06:49] <xxor> whats dev chan
[06:50] <tvon> hrmph
[06:50] <schweeb> man, downloading warty over 384kbit cable sucks
[06:50] <schweeb> 2hrs+
[06:50] <schweeb> ;_;
[06:50] <s0dak1ng> what forum software are you guys going to use?
[06:50] <tritium> jdub: care to comment on what you meant by "interesting KDE stuff on the way" in the OSNews interview? :)
[06:50] <xxor> schweeb: got it in 20 minutes on this cable .. its 5Mb/sec
[06:50] <clee> s'all about cable and bittorrent
[06:50] <clee> mmm, bittorrent
[06:50] <clee> jdub: what kind of numbers are you guys seeing on downloads?
[06:50] <mdz> s0dak1ng: I'm not sure that it's been decided yet; do you have any recommendations?
[06:51] <Dr_Willis> super fast for me clee
[06:51] <jdub> clee: INSANE bittorrent stats
[06:51] <jdub> mdz: got stats?
[06:51] <Dr_Willis> clee,  over 400k/s
[06:51] <schweeb> xxor: well, I'm doing a netinstall
[06:51] <xxor> that u.k mirror I was getting over 400K
[06:51] <clee> jdub: I downloaded the i386 ISO over bt
[06:51] <s0dak1ng> mdz:well from my experience the top 3 is definitely phpbbs/vBBS and Invision
[06:51] <mdz> jdub: what, like ISO downloads?
[06:51] <jdub> tritium: soon, soon :)
[06:51] <tseng> daniel said he was getting 100mbs
[06:51] <schweeb> so I'm installing as I download
[06:51] <xxor> jdub: dev chan ?
[06:51] <tseng> from his torrent
[06:51] <s0dak1ng> mdz:just have to pick one from those 3
[06:51] <neighborlee> 56 minutes ;-0
[06:51] <jdub> xxor: sorry?
[06:51] <tritium> jdub: okay, patience is a virtue, yeah, yeah
[06:51] <mdz> s0dak1ng: is there any forum software which _isn't_ full of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities? ;-)
[06:51] <neighborlee> I downloaded wrong darn one first time:((barf..ie: amd LOL
[06:51] <xxor> jdub: is there a development chan on freenode
[06:51] <jdub> xxor: this is it.
[06:51] <dieman> mdz: im using phorum at work, its somewhat hackable
[06:52] <jdub> xxor: for the time being, we may split off developer discussion later.
[06:52] <mdz> xxor: this was it, until today when it became more general
[06:52] <dieman> mdz: i like it, but dono if its full of cross-site issues or not or not :)
[06:52] <tritium> :)
[06:52] <s0dak1ng> mdz:check their mainpages..i can't comment on that since i am a newbie lol
[06:52] <tvon> mdz: the site is plone, CMFBoard is pretty good for that :)
[06:52] <xxor> jdub: Ive never made packages before , is it easy ?
[06:52] <jdub> xxor: hrm, sometimes
[06:52] <tseng> xxor, google the debian developer handbook
[06:53] <tseng> its all easy to find.
[06:53] <tvon> deb's are a little harder than rpm's, but fairly easy once you've gotten your feet wet
[06:53] <xxor> tseng: sorry for polling , I know about the handbook
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> okay i will download the torrent adn reserve enough hd just for dr_willis to try it first..
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> if it works for him i will play with linux again for the first time in a year
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> after a year
[06:54] <s0dak1ng> woops
[06:54] <mdz> xxor: well-behaved software is easier to package than ill, and simple software easier than complex, generally
[06:55] <mdz> xxor: it ranges from just dropping files in the right places, to robustly handling database conversions and the like
[06:55] <xxor> mdz: ah
[06:56] <xxor> bleh , how do I setup ATAPI under 2.6.x
[06:56] <schweeb> it's already set up
[06:56] <mdz> it should just work
[06:56] <xxor> cdrecord --scanbus gives me nothing 0_o
[06:56] <xxor> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[06:56] <schweeb> cdrecord -dev=atapi -scanbus
[06:57] <schweeb> then: cdrecord -dev=atapi:<LUN> -scanbus
[06:57] <xxor> Warning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported.
[06:57] <xxor> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open 'atapi'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[06:57] <tvon> cdrecord -dev=/dev/whateva   has worked for me
[06:57] <mdz> cdrecord is...disagreeable about this
[06:57] <mdz> but dev=/dev/hdc or similar works fine
[06:57] <schweeb> yea
[06:57] <schweeb> do you have ide-cd loaded, xxor?
[06:58] <schweeb> lsmod | grep ide-cd to check
[06:58] <xxor> yea
[06:58] <schweeb> try -dev=ata -scanbus then
[06:58] <schweeb> or, do as they say, and point dev at the dev node
[06:58] <xxor> 0_o
[06:59] <schweeb> this is a 2.6 thing, not a ubuntu thing.
[06:59] <schweeb> well, 2.6/cdrecord
[06:59] <schweeb> clashing of developers.
[06:59] <xxor> ok well
[06:59] <xxor> /dev/name works
[06:59] <xxor> /dev/hda /dev/hdd (cd burner hda , dvd burner hdd)
[07:00] <bob2> wow
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: do you mind a test build on ppc too?
[07:00] <xxor> problem is .. no graphical cd burning apps , support that bullshit
[07:01] <xxor> so .. hrm , gotta fix it somehow
[07:01] <schweeb> most of them support it somehow
[07:01] <jdub> xxor: we have nautilus-cd-burner, which is integrated into the file manager
[07:01] <tvon> nautilus-cd-burner is enough for most users
[07:01] <schweeb> most of the apps are wrappers around another library or program
[07:01] <schweeb> ^^^^
[07:01] <aethyr> hey guys, running ubuntu ;)
[07:01] <jdub> aethyr: yay! :)
[07:02] <bskahan> gcombust supports ata dev arguments
[07:02] <aethyr> the mouse speed is cranked on this distro ;)
[07:02] <aethyr> hehehe
[07:02] <bskahan> gcombust sucks on the gnome 1.x front though
[07:02] <phlaegel> I have the same problem with a scsi burner... a fix would be nice to find. it doesn't show up in nautilus-cd-burner or anything.
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> gcombust is a terrrible travesty of UI
[07:02] <xxor> k3b is the best burning app Ive seen so far
[07:02] <xxor> going to add queue support for it
[07:02] <bskahan> Hrdwr_BoB: amen
[07:02] <npmccallum> aethyr: actually the mouse speed is handled by the kernel
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> phlaegel, everyone hates SCSI burners now
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> xxor, yes, k3b is good
[07:02] <phlaegel> yeah, but I still have one I'd like to be able to use...
[07:03] <aethyr> npmccallum: hm, it's good bit faster than my gentoo with <IP_ADDRESS>-ck7
[07:03] <aethyr> not horribly so, just noticibly so
[07:03] <Hrdwr_BoB> phlaegel, yeah so I do, I mostly use command line though
[07:03] <sdfs23423> aethyr:whats faster than gentoo?
[07:03] <npmccallum> aethyr: are you using /dev/input/mice on gentoo in your X config?
[07:03] <xxor> I prefer gnome , but kde has some real good apps too
[07:03] <mdz> fabbione: no problem
[07:03] <phlaegel> I usually do to, but nautilus covers most of my burning needs, so I'd like to use it
[07:03] <mdz> I'll turn the boxes on now
[07:03] <mdz> fabbione: where is the source again?
[07:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> when you say 'faster' what do you mean
[07:04] <schweeb> npmccallum: it's a combo of the WM and kernel
[07:04] <neighborlee> xxor: ditto that
[07:04] <schweeb> and X itself has a resolution setting that can effect sensitivity iirc
[07:04] <aethyr> npmccallum, yup
[07:04] <neighborlee> xxor: one of my favs is that kde modeler based on POV...very interesting
[07:04] <npmccallum> schweeb: yes
[07:05] <npmccallum> schweeb: that was my next question :)
[07:05] <aethyr> the install is very nice though on Ubuntu, best install I've seen for a Debian based distro
[07:05] <aethyr> picked up all my hardware
[07:05] <tory> I just finished installing ubuntu. Aside from the name, I'm in love :-)
[07:05] <npmccallum> aethyr: good
[07:05] <sdfs23423> aethyr:did u say ubunku is faster than gentoo?
[07:05] <aethyr> I think the name is pretty cool
[07:05] <schweeb> npmccallum: ;)
[07:05] <tory> This is honestly the greatest distro I've ever tried. It's like debian but it actually works right out of the box.
[07:05] <neighborlee> aethyr, wow thats wonderful..look fwd to it with zest now .heh..
[07:05] <aethyr> sdfs23423, haha, I said the mouse was faster than gentoo ;)
[07:05] <sdfs23423> oh
[07:05] <xxor> gcc not installed by default hehe
[07:05] <aethyr> I inadvertantly set off the marketing campaign
[07:06] <neighborlee> aethyr, seems doubtful long as 2.6.x is used
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> nothing is faster than gentoo
[07:06] <aethyr> Ubuntu: Faster than Gentoo
[07:06] <mdz> tory: thanks for the compliments
[07:06] <jdub> tory: cool!
[07:06] <tseng> what is this fast mouse silliness
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> gentoo is 100x faster than debian in all tests*
[07:06] <sdfs23423> hrdwr_bob:i hear yoper is!
[07:06] <tseng> the acceleration is set higher
[07:06] <tory> tseng: just turn down the mouse speed
[07:06] <aethyr> neighborlee, it definately is, I don't know why, but it's zippy
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> * tests not actual tests
[07:06] <tvon> Hrdwr_BoB: heh
[07:06] <tseng> tory: not me, them.
[07:06] <schweeb> npmccallum: I remember when I installed 2.5.6something and had X pointed at /dev/psaux and /dev/input/mice... much to my surprise, my mouse was moving literally twice as faste, cause of the ps2 module changes, heh
[07:06] <xxor> tseng: yeah , my desktop seems MUCH quicker .. not just the mouse either
[07:06] <tseng> so much FUD.
[07:06] <tory> jdub: another nice thing is that the menus are simple to use
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> lol schweeb
[07:06] <tseng> xxor: it is using nptl
[07:06] <jdub> mdz: when was the last cd build?
[07:07] <npmccallum> schweeb: yeah, that tricked me out too
[07:07] <jdub> tory: no crap! :)
[07:07] <schweeb> took me like a week to figure that out
[07:07] <aethyr> it is a very smooth desktop though out of the box, I want to play with some of the GNOME 2.8 stuff :)
[07:07] <xxor> native posix thread ?
[07:07] <schweeb> so I just plugged in a damn USB mouse
[07:07] <schweeb> lol
[07:07] <jdub> tory: i mean, there isn't any crap,. hrm ;)
[07:07] <tory> hehe
[07:07] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, 100x would seem to be a slight exageration <G>
[07:07] <tory> is there anyway to install msttcorefonts so I can get arial?
[07:07] <soda> aethyr: u like it so far?
[07:07] <jdub> aethyr: stick in a usb storage device :)
[07:07] <mdz> xxor: several people have said that it subjectively seems fast; perhaps because of 2.6 by default (compared to Debian), newer versions of some software, etc.
[07:08] <schweeb> I seem to remember reading msttcorefonts being in main
[07:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> neighborlee, if I didn't make it crazy, some idiot would beleive me
[07:08] <aethyr> soda, indeed I do, absolutely no hiccups on install
[07:08] <jdub> tory: i think they are available in universe
[07:08] <mdz> jdub: the last CD build was the preview
[07:08] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, ROFL
[07:08] <aethyr> jdub, yea, I'm getting some stuff to plug in now
[07:08] <schweeb> or maybe I lie
[07:08] <schweeb> heh
[07:08] <tory> jdub: ok
[07:08] <jdub> mdz: tops
[07:08] <mdz> jdub: finished a bit after 1400 UTC
[07:08] <tritium> my mouse was fast when I had both a Generic Mouse and a Configured Mouse configured as InputDevices in my XF86Config-4
[07:08] <tseng> another circle here.. need to install monodoc to build gtk-sharp
[07:09] <tseng> gtk-sharp needs monodoc
[07:09] <soda> will ubuntu support my radeon 9600 card?
[07:09] <xxor> well , almost have my system back to normal
[07:09] <xxor> heh
[07:09] <aethyr> jdub: is the gtk theme based on indubstrial? (I am running Indubstrial with GNOME 2.6 on my Gentoo install).
[07:10] <mdz> soda: do you have the PCI IDs for the exact card?
[07:10] <aethyr> looks similar
[07:10] <jdub> aethyr: yeah, just with added brown ;)
[07:10] <aethyr> excellent :)
[07:10] <jdub> tory: actually, msttcorefonts is not there, i'll check why
[07:10] <mdz> jdub: because it's in contrib/non-free
[07:10] <schweeb> jdub: thought I read somewhere in the wiki that msttcorefonts was being considered for main, regardless of the legal aspect... (no browser yet to confirm)
[07:10] <jdub> mdz: mm, just remembered
[07:11] <neighborlee> doesn't matter but...did you guys put in synatpic as default UI to apt ?
[07:11] <jdub> tory: you can add debian's contrib/non-free lines, they work reasonably well (not a lot of dependency issues tehre... ;)
[07:11] <jdub> neighborlee: yes, for this release
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: ic..what are you going for in next
[07:12] <bob2> hm, I wonder if clug wants a demo
[07:12] <jdub> neighborlee: got some funky plans for an easy install/uninstall proggie and update notifier
[07:12] <jdub> neighborlee: see the HoaryHedgehog page on the wiki
[07:12] <soda> mdz:maybe 4150 to 4152
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: ok will do
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: very nice..I like innovation ;-00
[07:12] <aethyr> wow, I just noticed the desktop is clean??
[07:13] <JADuncan> No root account by default?
[07:13] <JADuncan> :O
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: it's disabled, everything uses sudo :-)
[07:13] <neighborlee> jdub: please consider ( unless you already are) a panel applet notifier for updating
[07:13] <jdub> neighborlee: yes, will definitely have that
[07:13] <aethyr> yea, how does the no root thing work anyways?
[07:13] <npmccallum> neighborlee: we already are
[07:13] <neighborlee> kewl guys
[07:13] <JADuncan> is that not a little insecure?
[07:13] <aethyr> I never put in any root password
[07:13] <mdz> fabbione: do we support radeon R300 with the xfree86 driver?
[07:13] <jdub> aethyr: the first user has full sudo access
[07:13] <aethyr> jdub: ah, ok
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: nup :)
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: same question?
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: it's disabled, not no-password :)
[07:14] <npmccallum> mdz: you have an R300 in your thinkpad, don't you?
[07:14] <soda> mdz:i think its RV350
[07:14] <JADuncan> the only thing that would worry me about that is that it means that any exploitation of the user account leads directly to full system control
[07:14] <soda> mdz:oh well, i will know the answer as soon as dr_willis try it
[07:14] <mdz> npmccallum: I have a mobility M7, which is like a radeon 7500
[07:15] <mdz> which is RV200 I think
[07:15] <Nafai> jdub: Holding up to the slashdoting? :)
[07:15] <JADuncan> or does sudo still require a password eg mac osx?
[07:15] <npmccallum> mdz: oh, I have the Fire GL something or other which is the M10 I think
[07:15] <mdz> soda: I think it's supported at least in 2D, and we'll have the ATI binary driver easily installable very soon
[07:15] <soda> try here
[07:15] <jdub> JADuncan: sudo to root requires the user password
[07:15] <soda> http://pciids.sourceforge.net/pci.ids
[07:15] <npmccallum> mdz: its either R300 or R350, but it works great with ubuntu
[07:16] <aethyr> here's an odd question: I noticed that XChat is setup to use Monospace, yet my fonts don't look like monospace to me (the "l" has a little loopy thing on the bottom).  Are these regular bitstream vera fonts?
[07:16] <mdz> s0dak1ng: best to just try it and see :-)
[07:16] <s0dak1ng> mdz:i am sure 2d will work..
[07:16] <s0dak1ng> md:yah..i will try it
[07:17] <s0dak1ng> md:can u give me the amd64 btlink?
[07:17] <mdz> sure
[07:17] <mdz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/warty-amd64.iso.torrent
[07:17] <JADuncan> jdub: you don't mind a bit of questioning right?
[07:17] <aethyr> jeff's fielding questions like a pro ;)
[07:18] <JADuncan> jdub: I am curious as to how stable the prerelease is as I have a friend who is being converted to Linux by me (I run sid) and this looks a little more user friendly out of the box.
[07:20] <jdub> JADuncan: it's very stable