[13:10] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-artwork (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.24 => 24.04.25] (no packageset)
[14:36] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: accepted edubuntu-artwork [source] (noble-proposed) [24.04.25]


[06:49] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:00] <duflu> Hi seb128
[07:15] <seb128> hey duflu
[07:23] <didrocks> good morning
[07:24] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:24] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:47] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:59] <jibel> Good morning
[08:02] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[08:04] <jibel> Salut oSoMoN, ça va?
[08:05] <oSoMoN> jibel, bien, et toi?
[08:12] <jibel> oSoMoN, bien, il fait beau et le w-e est proche :)
[08:15] <clobrano> good mornig all o/
[08:16] <oSoMoN> good morning clobrano
[08:16] <clobrano> hi oSoMoN :)
[08:22] <clobrano> seb128: could you schedule some time to reply on this Yaru issue? https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/925 it seems that gnome-initial-setup uses a different icon when launched soon after ubuntu installation than when launched lately
[08:22] <gitbot> ubuntu issue 925 in yaru ""Welcome to Ubuntu" icon isn't squared" [Icon Theme, Info-Needed, Open]
[09:03]  * Laney nods solemnly
[09:12] <seb128> clobrano, adding to my backlog
[09:12] <clobrano> seb128: thanks!
[09:13] <seb128> didrocks, I don't really "use" github actively, but I've an account (and I PRed a systemd change that got merged on friday :p)
[09:13] <seb128> should be enough to Cc me :)
[09:14] <didrocks> I tried @seb128
[09:14] <didrocks> other handle?
[09:15] <didrocks> or just github which didn't find you?
[09:16] <seb128> I don't know how github works
[09:16] <seb128> https://github.com/seb128/ is my page
[09:16] <seb128> maybe I need to enable some option to be CCable?
[09:16] <didrocks> weird, @seb128 should have worked though
[09:16] <didrocks> I don't think so
[09:16] <seb128> k, no idea then
[09:16] <didrocks> maybe because you never commented on the project and there is a "no spam" option?
[09:16] <didrocks> unsure
[09:17] <seb128> yeah, on a systemd PR it autocompletes for me
[09:17] <seb128> so I guess github has some smartness
[09:18] <seb128> likely to limit errors/long&useless completion list
[09:18] <Laney> you only get completions for people that are known in that project yeah
[09:18] <seb128> hey Laney!
[09:18] <Laney> hi there
[09:18] <Laney> what's up
[09:19] <didrocks> makes sense
[09:49] <Laney> bug: "this bug will crash your desktop" laney: "ooh, let me try"
[09:49] <Laney> /o\
[09:50] <Laney> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1795279)
[09:56] <seb128> Laney, so you confirm the bug? ;)
[09:56] <Laney> I just commented.
[09:56] <seb128> thx
[09:57] <seb128> looks like it's known as  bug #1754693
[09:58] <seb128> ah, I see you just tagged that one
[09:58] <seb128> Laney is one step ahead :)
[09:58]  * seb128 goes back to updating poppler
[10:25]  * Laney is watching the govt fall apart
[12:20] <kenvandine> jamesh: thanks for the fontconfig patch!
[12:20] <kenvandine> I'll get that uploaded today
[12:44] <jibel> didrocks, lp:~jibel/livecd-rootfs/seed_snap_on_layered_squashfs proposed for review
[13:56] <jbicha> seb128!
[14:24] <jamesh> kenvandine: it was a bit of a pain getting things together, given how the changes were all applied via rebase and interspersed with other work.  I think I got everything needed though.
[14:24] <kenvandine> jamesh: great
[14:25] <kenvandine> yeah, it looked kind of nasty :)
[14:25] <jamesh> SRU'ing 2.13 kind of feels less risky
[15:41] <seb128> hey again, good afternoon desktopers!
[15:57] <seb128> quiet day from seeing the backlog
[15:58] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[15:59] <seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you?
[16:00] <seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, I'm going to state it again, but I think the fontconfig SRU is the wrong approach/solution to that problem, it also feels risky as a SRU and abusing our position of snap upstream to change something in the distro which is not needed by the distro itself
[16:10] <kenvandine> seb128: good
[16:10] <kenvandine> seb128: we are out of ideas :/
[16:11] <kenvandine> it is useful in the distro those, we do have seeded snaps effected by this
[16:11] <kenvandine> s/those/though
[16:12] <seb128> you are using the distro to workaround a problem in the snap/tech imho
[16:12] <seb128> I already pointed that in the email discussion, but you are not going to get away the same way on other distros
[16:13] <seb128> Debian isn't going to do a stable-serie-upload of the new fontconfig to sort that problem
[16:13] <kenvandine> yeah, it doesn't help other distros
[16:13] <kenvandine> we know
[16:14] <kenvandine> but at least it helps ubuntu
[16:14] <kenvandine> seb128:  but... this is going to bite us again too
[16:14] <seb128> I know what you do it, that SRU is a strach though imho ... but I'm not in the SRU team so let's see what they say about it
[16:17] <seb128> kenvandined, I guess flatpak didn't solve that problem either? might be worth talk to alex about what he thinks a solution would be
[16:17] <kenvandine> they did solve it with the uuid change
[16:17] <kenvandine> that makes the cache relocatable
[16:17] <kenvandine> but i don't think that helps us
[16:18] <seb128> how is our situation different from theirs?
[16:19]  * kenvandine tries to remember
[16:20] <kenvandine> actually that isn't solving the fontconfig version mismatches
[16:21] <kenvandine> we do allow the snaps read access to the cache, the problem is the cache version mismatch
[16:21] <kenvandine> we can access them via path or uuid
[16:22] <seb128> but I though they had different filenames?
[16:22] <seb128> for the different versions
[16:22] <kenvandine> they do
[16:22] <seb128> so we basically need one cache or each version?
[16:22] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:22] <kenvandine> we need to generate caches for each
[16:23] <kenvandine> or
[16:23] <seb128> we could basically have an helper that static build/include the other fontconfig version that that does a cache generation on the client
[16:23] <kenvandine> there was a problem with that... but i can't recall what
[16:23] <seb128> like on bionic have a fontconfig-cache-cosmic which includes libfontconfig from cosmic and LD_PRELOAD that to do the fc-cache
[16:24] <seb128> oh well
[16:24] <kenvandine> we would need it to be bundled with snapd
[16:24] <seb128> let's see how the SRU goes then
[16:24] <seb128> well, since you want a distro hack you could do a distro hack
[16:24] <kenvandine> seb128: well your idea could help make it more future proof :)
[16:24] <seb128> like add that helper/lib to gnome-session
[16:24] <kenvandine> we would prefer not a distro hack :)
[16:24] <seb128> rather than changing libfontconfig for all users
[16:24] <seb128> you do distro hack by doing a SRU
[16:25] <kenvandine> i know
[16:25] <seb128> that would be a less risky SRU
[16:25] <kenvandine> nobody is happy with that :)
[16:25] <seb128> well that's a suggestion in case the fontconfig SRU feels like not SRU material
[16:25] <seb128> do SRU a generate-new-cache hack in some component (or new package)
[16:26] <seb128> but yeah, ideally snapd would do that
[16:26] <kenvandine> i think that might be the longer term solution
[16:26] <seb128> also if the cache needs to be generated once
[16:26] <seb128> does it mean it's the first start of the first app?
[16:26] <seb128> I guess not since the snap can't write to a system location, so it doesn't benefit others...
[16:26] <kenvandine> right now it's per snap
[16:27] <kenvandine> but if snapd did it
[16:27] <kenvandine> or snapd's userd could do it in the user's session
[16:28] <kenvandine> then it would just refresh the cache for the user and all snaps run by that user would benefit
[16:29] <seb128> right
[16:29] <seb128> anyway, I know it's not an easy problem, thanks for looking at it
[16:30] <seb128> sorry for being negative about the SRU, it's just the backlog comments that made me feel again that this SRU was a strech and a bit risky
[16:30] <jbicha> there is one package (maybe fontconfig?) that can cause annoying issues with missing letters in apps when it is updated to a new version until you log out or restart
[16:31] <seb128> that's the sort of problem that SRU testing should hopefully catch if that's an issue
[16:31] <jbicha> I saw a Debian user yesterday complaining about the "Kelp" and "dd or Remove Software" menu items he was seeing
[16:32] <seb128> I've the sort of corruptions without package updates on my old laptop, just after suspend/resume sometime, it can also be video drivers issues
[16:32] <jbicha> unfortunately, that kind of bug also shows if we try to SRU a UI font like Cantarell or Ubuntu
[16:32]  * kenvandine hates touching fontconfig
[16:33] <jbicha> kenvandine: Seb touched it last so he's responsible for it now! 😸
[16:33] <kenvandine> :-D
[16:34] <seb128> well seems like now kenvandine is touching it \o/ :)
[18:06]  * Laney takes baby steps
[18:06] <Laney> distro patches DIE DIE DIE
[18:07]  * Laney missed the change to make a Sideshow Bob reference
[18:07] <Laney> chance*
[18:07] <Laney> for shame
[18:19] <seb128> lol
[18:35] <bcurtiswx> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8Gx3ZzRkXX/ and https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rnJfMzTqq9/ im looking for duplicates in launchpad currently
[18:45] <seb128> bcurtiswx, what is in the make.log?
[18:46] <bcurtiswx> the 2nd link is the tail of that log
[18:47] <seb128> tseliot, ^
[18:50] <bcurtiswx> its a just updated disco on Linux Neon 4.18.0-10-generic #11-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 11 15:13:55 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:50] <bcurtiswx> not just dist upgrades but a daily package update


[00:06] <NoReflex> Hello guys! I'm looking for some information on how I could compile a source to be installed just as a version from ubuntu's repo. If I compile it using the default options it will use other folders for binaries, libraries and won't make menu shortcuts
[00:07] <ion> #ubuntu-motu should help with packaging.
[00:08] <NoReflex> ok
[00:08] <NoReflex> will try, thanks
[00:10] <lamont> http://www.klikradio.org/listen.asx <-- the 17 yr old highschooler daughter is live on the air.  She even sometimes plays songs I like
[00:16] <ion> The radio compression is painful.
[00:34] <mdz> smoser, around?
[00:35] <smoser> here
[00:35] <smoser> but i might have to go at a moments notice.
[00:36] <mdz> smoser, just wanted to show you this
[00:37] <mdz> smoser, I hacked up a first cut of the apport patch for ec2
[00:37] <mdz> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/433845
[00:37] <mdz> (no it isn't)
[00:37] <mdz> smoser, is there any other information which might be useful to add for bug reports from ec2 instances?
[00:38] <smoser> everything in the metadata service is useful.
[00:38] <smoser> with the possible explicit exception of ignoring user-data
[00:38] <smoser> (for privacy reasons)
[00:38] <mdz> smoser, is any of it potentially privacy-sensitive?
[00:38] <smoser> i can go through and get a list of what might be private and what not
[00:39] <smoser> at very least, things in there we'd want are image/ramdisk/kernel id
[00:39] <smoser> zone
[00:39] <smoser> stuff like that
[00:43] <mdz> smoser, I'm already getting image/ramdisk/kernel, I can get zone
[00:43] <mdz> smoser, thanks for the feedback
[02:18] <Kano> hi, i tested current daily live 64 bit, then i installed htop on my quad core
[02:18] <Kano> and one cpu is permanently at 100%
[02:19] <Kano> X needs it, Intel onboard Q45 btw
[02:19] <Kano> thats definitely not normal
[02:21] <Kano> booted with toram option via network, but should not matter
[02:22] <smoser> mdz, sorry for being dense before. i didn't realize what i was looking at. i thought you were pointing me at code that did the collection, and i couldn't find where it was.
[02:26] <Kano> just tested it on nvidia hardware, same problem, one core running wild of 4
[02:28] <Kano> also vts are blocked why on earth would somebody do that
[02:30] <LaserJock> Kano: what do you mean by blocked?
[02:31] <Kano> ctrl-alt+f1 or chvt 1 does not work
[02:31] <Kano> btw. when i install nvidia binary drivers in live mode then cpu usage is 1%
[02:31] <LaserJock> my guess is the vts are just dead
[02:32] <LaserJock> which seems to happen not very infrequently when X crashes or is not working properly, in my experience
[02:32] <Kano> on 2 testsystems with different hardware?
[02:33] <LaserJock> in terms of not getting to the vts I wouldn't be surprised
[02:34] <mdz> smoser, I hadn't noticed you being dense :-)
[02:34] <LaserJock> I rarely had working vts for a few releases, although Jaunty and Karmic seemed to do good for me
[02:42] <mason> Enter text here...hello
[02:42] <mdz> smoser, now that you saw it for what it was, do you have further thoughts on how we could make it more useful?
[02:43] <mason> ok i m having troubles with grub
[05:10]  * LaserJock stabs apport for freezing up his laptop
[05:10] <hyperair> is there a way to force redetection of headphone jack status?
[05:20] <TheMuso> hyperair: unless there is a mixer control for it, not that I know of.
[05:20] <hyperair> hmm
[05:20] <hyperair> my headphone jack is acting strangely when resuming from suspend
[05:20] <hyperair> as in, my speakers won't mute unless i plug in headphones pull them out and plug them back in
[05:21] <hyperair> and if i leave my headphones in before suspending, and pull them out before resuming, the speakers remain muted
[05:21] <hyperair> i'd like to write a pm-utils script for it
[05:34] <TheMuso> hyperair: I think that problem needs solving at the kernel level.
[05:36] <hyperair> ah damn =\
[05:36] <hyperair> i should go file a bug then
[05:41] <TheMuso> argh! gnome-terminal constantly segfaults, yes bug filing has been done.
[07:26] <pitti> Good morning
[07:26] <pitti> mdz: ah, great
[07:26] <\sh> good morning pitti :)
[07:27] <pitti> mdke: I just don't know whether we'll get another full langpack export until beta, so that people actually have translated docs; but we will definitively coordinate this for the RC/final
[07:27] <pitti> ArneGoetje: do you still plan new langpacks between now and Monday?
[07:27] <StevenK> Hey pitti!
[07:27] <pitti> hey \sh
[07:27] <pitti> hey StevenK!
[07:29]  * \sh had a nice accident yesterday release-upgrading from a fresh jaunty install to yesterdays karmic .. after do-release-upgrade -d and reboot the machine couldn't find any kernel anymore...
[07:30] <\sh> I wonder if it's a machine problem (ibm thinkpad t43 with a new HD) or if something happend during upgrade
[07:31] <ArneGoetje> pitti: one update today, and one on sunday... according to crontab... but if it's not wanted, we can drop those
[07:31] <\sh> looks like that I have to re-test this way this evening again
[07:31] <pitti> ArneGoetje: oh, that's fine; I actually meant a full export
[07:31] <pitti> ArneGoetje: so that the delta packs get empty, and we don't overflow CDs
[07:31] <pitti> ArneGoetje: actually, hang on
[07:31] <ArneGoetje> pitti: I can make one on Sunday
[07:31] <pitti> ArneGoetje: can we skip the one on Sunday
[07:32] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ?
[07:32] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ok, full one on Sunday is possible? that would be good
[07:32] <pitti> ArneGoetje: didn't finish typing my original thought yet :)
[07:32] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yes, because I juse produced full ones last Sunday
[07:32] <ArneGoetje> just
[07:32] <pitti> ArneGoetje: the alternative would be to skip the sunday one and fake a full export today by merging the last full and current delta tarball before building packs
[07:33] <cjwatson> how long will the export on Sunday take?
[07:34] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: let me check
[07:38] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: the LP export starts at 21:00 UTC on Saturday and takes 9 hours
[07:39] <cjwatson> ok
[07:39] <pitti> hm, that means we could build final CDs only on Tuesday morning
[07:39] <pitti> sounds doable, but we shoulnd't build them much later
[07:39] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: means, it will be available around Sunday 6:00 UTC. I can then kick of the lp-o-matic run, which takes about 4 hours
[07:39] <pitti> well, if some langpacks aren't built yet, it's not a catastrophe
[07:40] <mdke> pitti: I haven't imported any translations from rosetta yet for ubuntu-docs, the translations included are still those from Jaunty. I tend to import translations after translation freeze because it takes quite a long time to do it and fix the various errors
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[07:41] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson, pitti: BTW: when to you want to have the final langpacks ready?
[07:42] <pitti> three days before RC would be great
[07:42] <ArneGoetje> pitti: date?
[07:43] <pitti> ArneGoetje: October 19
[07:44] <pitti> I'm not sure whether we should do another one for final (we used to in previous releases sometimes), but I'm inclined not to
[07:44] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, that means the export on 17/18 would be too late?
[07:45] <mdke> the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is October 22
[07:46] <pitti> mdke: for that we'd need an upload after RC, since the RC is due on October 22
[07:46] <mdke> so translators will think (unless corrected) that their translations up until that date will be included in Ubuntu
[07:46] <pitti> mdke: I'm not firmly opposed to do another upload after RC
[07:46] <mdke> pitti: yeah, I'm not saying that the deadline is appropriate, just that this is how it is at the moment
[07:46] <pitti> ArneGoetje: can we move that a day earlier?
[07:47] <ArneGoetje> pitti: the export? need to ask the rosetta team to kick off a manual export
[07:48] <pitti> right, the export and the build; so export on oct 16/17, upload on 17, build finishes until oct 19
[07:48] <ArneGoetje> pitti: then we can also make the export on 14/15 the final one...
[07:50] <ArneGoetje> pitti: when is release day? 29?
[07:50] <pitti> ArneGoetje: yes
[07:51] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I think we should at least do another full export on Oct 22
[07:51] <pitti> (on the deadline)
[07:51] <pitti> so that we have the possiblity of another update post-RC for final
[07:51] <pitti> we can still not upload it if the situation doesn't allow us to for some reason, but at least we'll be prepared
[07:51] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, according to LP cron schedule we have the foolowing export dates: 14, 17, 21, 24 before release. which ones to take and which ones to skip?
[07:52] <pitti> ArneGoetje: that's for deltas, right?
[07:52] <ArneGoetje> pitti: that's for full or deltas, depending on how I request it to be
[07:52] <mdke> pitti: probably a good idea to let the translators know the plan so that they don't get bitten if there is no post-RC upload
[07:52] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I'd skip them all, and request a manual full export on 16 and 22
[07:52] <pitti> mdke: *nod*
[07:53] <ArneGoetje> mdke: that's why we are discussing this now. ;)
[07:54] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, so the last one according to schedule would be on 10. Then two manual ones on 16 and 22.
[07:54] <mdke> ArneGoetje: ok
[07:55] <mdke> pitti: how does the xml export work? Is there a date I need to have the ubuntu-docs translations uploaded by to ensure that they are shipped?
[07:55] <pitti> ArneGoetje: sounds like a plan
[07:55] <pitti> mdke: xml export?
[07:56] <pitti> mdke: for being caught by the Oct 22 export, I think you need to have it uploaded by Oct 19 or so, to give LP some spare time for importing them all
[07:56] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ^ sounds sane?
[07:56] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, I will announce this to the translators
[07:56] <mdke> pitti: the thing where xml from /usr/share/gnome/help is moved from ubuntu-docs to langpacks
[07:57] <mdke> obviously when I upload ubuntu-docs, it gets stripped out during the build, and then where does it go back in?
[07:57] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yes, I guess so
[07:57] <pitti> mdke: oh, ignore me for the import
[07:57] <pitti> it's not really "imported"
[07:57] <pitti> mdke: langpack-o-matic grabs the stripped files produced on build, and merges them into the langpacks
[07:57] <mdke> right, I didn't use the right word there I guess
[07:58] <pitti> mdke: no, I was just confused; I thought it used po files
[07:58]  * pitti still needs to wake up
[07:58] <mdke> me too :)
[07:58] <mdke> so the langpack-o-matic trick happens on every upload of an affected package?
[07:58] <pitti> mdke: so, from a pure import POV, it needs to be built a about two hours before I start langpack-o-matic
[07:58] <mdke> aha
[07:59] <pitti> still needs to be earlier due to RC freeze and CD building, of course
[07:59] <pitti> mdke: so I think "oct 19" still stands
[07:59] <mdke> ok. that sounds ok, we have the translation deadline on Oct 15 so I can do it over that weekend
[08:00] <mdke> thanks pitti
[08:00] <pitti> great
[08:22] <ArneGoetje> pitti: have you seen my post to ubuntu-devel mailing list?
[08:34] <pitti> ArneGoetje: yes, I did, will followup today
[08:35] <mdke> pitti: on my jaunty system the help button for jockey is broken because it points at "ghelp:hardware#restricted-manager" instead of "ghelp:hardware#jockey" (fixed in karmic). Have you had many bug reports about that? if not I presume it's not worth an SRU?
[08:36] <pitti> tseliot: is screen-resolutions-extra still required? We don't need to set VirtualSize any more, and dontzap has gone from xorg.conf as well, no?
[08:37] <pitti> tseliot: it's one of the last two packages which still uses the old policykit API (without depending on it, so it won't even work)
[08:37] <tseliot> pitti: screen-resolutions-extra is still required for -ati (which AFAIK doesn't have dynamic front buffer reallocation)
[08:38] <tseliot> dontzap (the package) was removed from the archive
[08:38] <pitti> tseliot: does it check that it doesn't fiddle xorg.conf for intel?
[08:38] <pitti> tseliot: s-r-e also has dontzap code AFAICS
[08:38] <pitti> ah, it calls /usr/bin/dontzap
[08:38] <tseliot> pitti: yes, it has dontzap code but doesn't use it
[08:39] <pitti> tseliot: ok, so I file a bug for getting it ported to polkit-1 (and the missing dependencies)
[08:39] <tseliot> pitti: and no, it won't be used for intel cards as the framebuffer size should be bug enough now that -intel uses UXA
[08:39] <pitti> tseliot: I know; I wondered whether that's actually checked somewhere
[08:39] <robert_ancell> Does anyone know how to run a panel applet in the foreground? Or look at it's stdout/stderr?
[08:40] <seb128> robert_ancell, run it on a command line before adding it to gnome-panel
[08:40] <seb128> robert_ancell, it will sit there until added and the adding will use the running instance
[08:40] <tseliot> pitti: the gnome randr applet checks the framebuffer size and calls s-r-e if necessary
[08:41] <pitti> ah, I see
[08:41] <pitti> thanks
[08:41] <tseliot> pitti: I'll file a bug report about polkit-1
[08:41] <pitti> you? ok, thanks
[08:41] <tseliot> in s-r-e
[08:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, I did that for gnome-pilot but gdm-user-switch-applet quits immediately
[08:41] <pitti> tseliot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PolicyKitOneMigration has some links to API and porting guide
[08:42] <tseliot> pitti: aah, you said you would do it. Sorry, I misread your message
[08:42] <tseliot> pitti: please do it and I'll have a look at it later
[08:42] <pitti> tseliot: *nod*
[08:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you already have the applet on the panel?
[08:42] <robert_ancell> seb128, no
[08:43] <seb128> robert_ancell, running /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-user-switch-applet sits on a command line waiting there
[08:43] <seb128> $ /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-user-switch-applet
[08:43] <seb128> ** (gdm-user-switch-applet:3979): DEBUG: GdmUserManager: Found current seat: /org/freedesktop/ConsoleKit/Seat1
[08:43] <seb128> ** (gdm-user-switch-applet:3979): DEBUG: Creating new user
[08:43] <seb128> etc
[08:43] <seb128> when adding the applet to the gnome-panel config
[08:44] <seb128> robert_ancell, you are sure there is no gdm-user-switch-applet already running?
[08:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, ah, thanks. It must be my local build that is quitting early
[08:44] <seb128> robert_ancell, does it work for the system one?
[08:45] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, thanks
[08:45] <seb128> you're welcome
[08:49] <seb128> robert_ancell, note that we don't use this applet in ubuntu
[08:49] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw do you know why gdm lists the sabayon user on the login banner?
[08:51] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, but I need to patch all of GDM for them to accept the UserManager patch.  This is the easiest bit to fix first
[08:51] <ArneGoetje> mvo, cjwatson: could you please take a look at my post on ubuntu-devel@ ("Getting translation packages installed automagically") and follow up? Thanks a lot.
[08:51] <robert_ancell> seb128, what uid is sabayon?
[08:51] <seb128> robert_ancell, > 1000 I guess it's a sabayon bug
[08:52] <robert_ancell> seb128, if the UID is greater than 500 and it has a valid shell it gets shown.  There is a blacklist of ~20 users that are filtered out (e.g. mysql)
[08:52] <robert_ancell> seb128, the good news is the blacklist is now a gconf key so much easier to fix these sorts of problems
[08:53] <seb128> ok, thanks
[08:53] <pitti> tseliot: done, bug 435709
[08:53] <tseliot> pitti: thanks
[08:54] <pitti> tseliot: do you think you'll have time for this after beta?
[08:54] <pitti> tseliot: if not, please tell me, and I'll try to make some time for it
[08:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you plan to land gdm changes before your end of day?
[08:55] <mvo> ArneGoetje: thanks, I just read over it, I think we can do something in u-m for karmic, but not add support to software-store at this point
[08:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, did you put the failsafe session part there too?
[08:55] <tseliot> pitti: I doubt I will. There's a new mesa, a new intel driver and some other X stuff that need my attention
[08:55] <pitti> tseliot: ok, keeping on my radar then
[08:55] <tseliot> pitti: thanks
[08:55] <mvo> ArneGoetje: did the language-pack names change, i.e. if someone has a full translated jaunty and does a dist-upgrade, will he miss some translations this way in karmic?
[08:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, no changes today
[08:56] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, not even the failsafe gdm counterpart? ;-)
[08:56] <seb128> robert_ancell, I will test the patch on the bug then and see if I can get that uploaded before the freeze
[08:57] <robert_ancell> seb128, Amaranth has done all the work. I just updated one patch to the current version
[08:57] <seb128> robert_ancell, right I was checking in case you had a bzr ready to upload for this one like gnome-session
[08:57] <robert_ancell> seb128, ok.  Nope, I'm winding up now so don't have anything pending
[08:58] <seb128> ok, good
[08:58] <seb128> thanks robert_ancell
[09:03] <ArneGoetje> mvo: no. the language-pack names stayed. it's just that language-support-translations and language-support-extra metapackages went away. Those dependencies are now installed by language selector (and can be checked with the script I mentioned), based on which applications (thunderbird, oo.o, etc.) the user has already installed or is going to install
[09:03] <seb128> cjwatson_, hi
[09:03] <seb128> cjwatson_, about bug #434769
[09:03] <ArneGoetje> mvo: so, an update will most likely remove those extra translations from the system, since the metapackages are gone which pulled them.
[09:04] <seb128> cjwatson_, /etc/init/gdm.conf has logic for the text argument, isn't that enough?
[09:04] <seb128> "    for ARG in $(cat /proc/cmdline)
[09:04] <seb128>     do
[09:04] <seb128>         case "${ARG}" in
[09:04] <seb128>             text|-s|s|S|single)
[09:04] <seb128>                 exit 0
[09:04] <seb128> "
[09:05] <mvo> ArneGoetje: urgh, ok. that is definitely something we need to add to the release notes (if it has not been added already)
[09:06] <dpm> ArneGoetje: I've just read your e-mail as well, I'll forward it to ubuntu-translators, since they might be interested (especially Timo Jyrinki, who started the related discussion)
[09:07] <seb128> cjwatson_, oh, the change has been uploaded later that I though the cd images probably didn't have it yet
[09:07] <mvo> ArneGoetje: I do a test run with the upgraer now, it has some cleverness when it comes to translations already, I check if it keeps its hands off them or if it needs extra tweaking
[09:10] <ArneGoetje> mvo: ok. Please also have a look at my branch and commit it, so that we have the script ready to be used. :)
[09:11] <mvo> ArneGoetje: I put it on my todo list
[09:11] <ArneGoetje> mvo: thanks
[09:12] <ArneGoetje> mvo: FYI a script run on my machine with multiple language-packs installed takes about 4 seconds to run and produces accurate output in terms of missing packages.
[09:26] <asac> doko_: checkout http://paste.ubuntu.com/276885/ ... feel free to suggest a fix in xulrunner. the other instruction thing is supposed to be fixed.
[09:26] <asac> doko_: also i tried -O2 on powerpc
[09:27] <asac> doesnt help much ... posted the error in the bug. seems a assembler regression somewhere
[09:27] <asac> doko_: patches welcome :-P (435560 has the new assembler problem when building with -O2)
[09:31] <doko_> ohh joy
[09:32] <doko_> asac: but the powerpc package currently is installable ... so it would help to upload to get an installable one on sparc
[09:33] <doko_> hmm, this is the sparc build ...
[09:34] <asac> doko_: i worked around the solaris symbol for nanojut by disabling "jit" ... but it doesnt work either. .. seems like gcc header bug on sparc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276891/
[09:35] <asac> yes
[09:42] <doko_> asac: no, xulrunner is soooooooo wrong, redefining 'inline'
[09:43] <doko_> namespace std
[09:43] <doko_> {
[09:43] <doko_>   inline namespace __gnu_cxx_ldbl128 { }
[09:43] <doko_> }
[09:46] <asac> doko_: redefining inline?
[09:46] <asac> doko_: thats from the /usr/include/c++/4.4/sparc-linux-gnu/bits/c++config.h:214: error: expected unqualified-id before 'namespace'
[09:46] <doko_> asac: yes, please look at the preprocessed source
[09:48] <asac> doko_: did you already look at the preprocessed source or are you speculating that its a xulrunner bug just on sparc?
[09:49] <doko_> asac: *you* speculate that it is a sparc bug, but apparently it only happens when including xulrunner's headers
[09:50] <asac> doko_: look on faure in /tmp/ns*.ii
[09:50] <asac> /tmp/nsWifiScannerUnix.ii
[09:50] <asac> doko_: ^^
[09:52] <doko_> asac: yes, as I said: this is expanded to:
[09:52] <doko_> # 212 "/usr/include/c++/4.4/sparc-linux-gnu/bits/c++config.h" 3
[09:52] <doko_> namespace std
[09:52] <doko_> {
[09:52] <doko_>   inline __attribute__((always_inline)) namespace __gnu_cxx_ldbl128 { }
[09:52] <doko_> }
[09:54] <doko_> asac: maybe try to reproduce on x86 with -D_GLIBCXX_LONG_DOUBLE_COMPAT -D__LONG_DOUBLE_128__
[09:55] <hoerup> has anybody experienced a breakage in karmic netwrok inst
[09:56] <hoerup> i tried last night and again this morning (CEST timezone), but base installation fails
[10:07] <mvo> ArneGoetje: I just checked, u-m will not auto-remove the translations on upgrade, it shoud still mark them manual instlal I think, so we should add a quirk to u-m (and add it to the release notes)
[10:08]  * ogra hopes the new usplash artwork was tested on 16pbb displays and doesnt look as awful as xsplash
[10:25] <sebner> pitti: aren't you afraid that you'll need to blacklist more and more stuff? ^^
[10:25] <pitti> sebner: well, there's just one left now :)
[10:25] <pitti> it only supports four jmicron bridges
[10:26] <sebner> heh, lucky you
[10:40] <dpm> mvo: could you have a look at bug 378075 when you've got some time? There is a patch for it as well
[10:41] <mvo> dpm: that is for jaunty? or karmic?
[10:42] <mvo> dpm: nevermind
[10:42] <dpm> yep, jaunty :)
[10:51] <james_w> is there supposed to be an upstart "reload" command?
[10:52] <james_w> ah, mterry is already on it :-)
[11:08] <doko> asac: filed bug #435793
[11:12] <asac> doko: do you see the "definition" in th .ii file?
[11:12] <asac> both definitions only refer to the linux headers
[11:14] <asac> shouldnt .ii files give hints where the defines used for expansion come from?
[11:14]  * asac logs on faure again
[11:16] <doko> asac: you me want to run -E -dD
[11:17] <asac> doko: are those compiler flags?
[11:18] <doko> asac: yes, see gcc(1)
[11:20] <asac> ok one sec
[11:22] <asac> somewhat that doesnt dump anything to stdout
[11:22] <doko> asac: for powerpc, there's now a gcc patch fixing wrong code gen with -Os -fstack-protector. will ask slangasek for a freeze exception (432222)
[11:22] <asac> which is what i understand it should do on -E
[11:22] <asac> doko: great. any idea about the assembler parsing (?) bug?
[11:23] <asac> doko: -E -dD doesnt spit out anything (no clue) ... is -save-temps with -dD doing the same?
[11:24] <asac> if so i put it to /tmp/nsWifiScannerUnix.ii.dD now
[11:24] <asac> but doesnt show any xulrunner headers surrounding that inline thing
[11:25] <asac> so i assume that flag didnt work :/
[11:26] <doko> asac: have a look at the other -d* options
[11:26] <asac> dont see anything that would show more headers in the .ii
[11:26] <doko> asac: -dM ?
[11:28] <asac> doesnt work with g++
[11:28] <doko> asac: powerpc assembler: again, the preprocessed source would help
[11:29] <asac> doko: i can get that
[11:30] <asac> doko: would be precious if you can tell me exactly the command i should run to get _all_ include/expand info into the ii ... the command (with -save-temps) is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276972/plain/
[11:31] <doko> asac: working dir?
[11:31] <doko> asac: run the preprocessor only
[11:32] <hoerup> karmic network inst: debootstrap program exited with error 127
[11:32] <asac> doko: on davis: xptcstubs_ppc64_linux.ii
[11:32] <asac> in my home
[11:33] <asac> the compile rerror is in the bug
[11:33] <asac> also put the original .cpp file there so you can directly fix it if its an official real assembler syntax you understand
[11:34] <doko> asac: same command line as in the bug report?
[11:34] <Whoopie> pitti: Hi, you know that you broke tuxonice-userui package with latest usplash-theme-ubuntu change? ;)
[11:34] <asac> doko: yes if oyu want to be sure i can paste you the command
[11:35] <pitti> Whoopie: uh?
[11:35] <asac> doko: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276978/plain/ thats the command line (with -save-temps)
[11:36] <doko> asac: attaching the files to the bug report would help
[11:36] <asac> doko: cant i just tell g++ to just run preprocessor rather than tweaking that command line until cpp is happy?
[11:36] <doko> asac: there's no nsWifiScannerUnix.cpp in your home
[11:36] <asac> doko: well. you are here ... i am here
[11:36] <Whoopie> pitti: tuxoniceui_usplash uses the progressbar functions to draw a progressbar during hibernate?
[11:36] <Whoopie> pitti: s/?/.
[11:36] <asac> doko: if you say you cannot find it i will attach them
[11:37] <cjwatson> hoerup: need full logs
[11:37] <pitti> Whoopie: how does that break hibernation, though?
[11:37] <Whoopie> pitti: no, the progressbar is not shown anymore.
[11:37] <pitti> right
[11:37] <asac> doko: i talked about powerpc ...
[11:37] <pitti> the new theme doesn't have a progress bar, by design team
[11:38] <Whoopie> pitti: that's one benefit of tuxonice instead of vanilla-hibernate.
[11:38] <asac> doko: now it is on faure
[11:39] <Kano> hi, does anybody else have got 100% load on Xorg with (h)top?
[11:40] <Kano> at least with nv driver (not nvidia binary) with daily iso
[11:42] <doko> asac: nsWifiScannerUnix.cpp:44:23: error: nsAutoPtr.h: No such file or directory
[11:42] <doko> nsWifiScannerUnix.cpp:45:27: error: nsWifiMonitor.h: No such file or directory
[11:42] <doko> nsWifiScannerUnix.cpp:46:31: error: nsWifiAccessPoint.h: No such file or directory
[11:43] <asac> doko: are you in karmic chroot?
[11:43] <doko> I don't want the files in your home, but just know the *working directory* (pwd) for calling the compiler
[11:43] <doko> yes
[11:43] <asac> doko: sure isnt that even in the paste?
[11:43] <asac> one second
[11:43] <asac> on powerpc its: ~/build-area/xulrunner-1.9.1-<IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly/build-tree/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/xptcall/src/md/unix
[11:43] <doko> no
[11:43] <doko> thanks
[11:43] <asac> alls builddeps are installed in karmic chroot
[11:44] <asac> doko: the hot spot on sparc is in: ~/build/build-area/xulrunner-1.9.1-<IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly/build-tree/mozilla/netwerk/wifi/src
[11:44] <doko> asac: there is no ~asac/build-area on faure
[11:44] <doko> ahh
[11:45] <asac> doko: faure == sparc ... davis == powerpc ;)
[11:45] <asac> maybe we should focus on one issue to avoid confusion ;)
[11:48] <cjwatson> hoerup: (ideally, the installer syslog)
[11:48] <hoerup> cjwatson: already working on it
[11:48] <doko> asac: it does work. just use -E -dD as I suggested. so it looks to be a problem in iwlib:
[11:49] <asac> doko: cool ... can you paste the full -E -dD command you used so i can "learn"
[11:49] <doko> # 72 "/usr/include/iwlib.h" 3 4
[11:49] <doko> #undef IW_GCC_HAS_BROKEN_INLINE
[11:49] <doko> # 83 "/usr/include/iwlib.h" 3 4
[11:49] <doko> #define IW_GCC_HAS_BROKEN_INLINE 1
[11:49] <doko> #define inline inline __attribute__((always_inline))
[11:49] <doko> g++ -E -dD -fvisibility=hidden -DMOZILLA_INTERNAL_API -D_IMPL_NS_COM -DEXPORT_XPT_API -DEXPORT_XPTC_API -D_IMPL_NS_COM_OBSOLETE -D_IMPL_NS_GFX -D_IMPL_NS_WIDGET -DIMPL_XREAPI -DIMPL_NS_NET -DIMPL_THEBES  -DOSTYPE=\"Linux2.6\" -DOSARCH=Linux -DIMPL_NS_NET  -I. -I. -I../../../dist/include/xpcom -I../../../dist/include/string -I../../../dist/include/pref -I../../../dist/include/storage -I../../../dist/include   -I../../../dist/incl
[11:49] <doko> ude/necko -I/usr/include/nspr   -I/usr/include -I/home/asac/build/build-area/xulrunner-1.9.1-<IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly/build-tree/mozilla/dist/sdk/include    -fPIC   -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions -Wall -Wpointer-arith -Woverloaded-virtual -Wsynth -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wno-long-long -pedantic -g -fno-strict-aliasing -fshort-wchar -pthread -pipe  -DNDEBUG -DTRIMMED -Os -freorder-blocks -fno
[11:49] <doko> -reorder-functions    -DMOZILLA_CLIENT -include ../../../mozilla-config.h nsWifiScannerUnix.cpp -save-temps
[11:49] <asac> ok makes sense ... didnt find any redefinition of inline in xul code
[11:50] <asac> odd ... i used the same approach (just putting to the front)
[11:50] <asac> IW_GCC_HAS_BROKEN_INLINE ... let me check
[11:51] <asac> doko: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276994/
[11:52] <asac>  /* However, gcc 4.0 has introduce a new "feature", when compiling with * '-Os', it does not want to inline iw_ether_cmp() and friends. * So, we need to fix inline again !
[11:53] <doko> gah ...
[11:53] <doko>  * I really hate when the compiler is trying to be more clever than me,
[11:53] <doko>  * because in this case gcc is not able to figure out functions with a
[11:53] <doko>  * single call site, so not only I have to tag those functions inline
[11:53] <doko>  * by hand, but then it refuse to inline them properly.
[11:53] <doko>  * Total saving for iwevent : 150B = 0.7%.
[11:53] <doko>  * Fortunately, in gcc 3.4, they now automatically inline static functions
[11:53] <doko>  * with a single call site. Hurrah !
[11:53] <doko>  * Jean II */
[11:53] <doko> when people try to be more clever than a compiler
[11:54] <cjwatson> obviously 150 bytes is more valuable than several man-hours of time several years later trying to figure out what on earth is wrong :P
[11:56] <asac> 0.7% ;)
[11:59] <cjwatson> hoerup: could just be the bug fixed in debootstrap 1.0.18 which I just synced, of course ...
[11:59] <cjwatson>    * Only use dpkg from the chroot, as there is no guarantee dpkg is
[11:59] <cjwatson>      available outside of the chroot (d-i installation for example).
[12:00] <cjwatson> (which was my muppet error)
[12:00] <hoerup> ok
[12:01]  * asac off for a while doing some NM testing
[12:01] <hoerup> cjwatson: last line from syslog "dpkg: not found"
[12:03] <Laney> Does anyone know if it's possible to migrate normal users to be system users on a package upgrade?
[12:03]  * Laney is touting this question around
[12:04] <cjwatson> hoerup: right. that's fixed in debootstrap 1.0.18 which you should get shortly. Sorry about that
[12:04] <directhex> Laney, "system users"?
[12:04] <Laney> directhex: --system
[12:05] <Laney> chooses a different uid, doesn't make a home directory and other things
[12:32] <pitti> hm, since upstart is required now, sysvinit can't ever be installable; should we just drop it?
[12:32] <pitti> cjwatson_: ^ opinion?
[12:32] <pitti> it keeps nagging us in the uninstallable report
[12:34] <pitti> Riddell: khelpcenter got demoted to universe in jaunty, but now koffice-data reverse-recommends it and wants to pull it back; promote or fix dependency?
[12:36] <pitti> soren:
[12:36] <pitti>  o kvm: kvm
[12:36] <pitti>    [Reverse-Depends: Ubuntu.Karmic virt-host seed]
[12:36] <pitti> sommer: I think some seed needs to be fixed to qemu-kvm?
[12:37] <doko> asac: independently of build the file on ppc with -O2 or -Os, I always get these errors
[12:38] <asac> yes
[12:38] <doko> asac: is it correct that the file name has an `ppc64' in it?
[12:38] <asac> i didnt say that assembler is Os
[12:38] <doko> and not just ppc?
[12:39] <asac> i wondered about that too, but uname -a showed 64-bit at least
[12:39] <asac> 2.6.15-54-powerpc64-smp
[12:39] <doko> asac: please rebuild, prefixing the build with linux32 ...
[12:39] <doko> opening an rt ticket ...
[12:40] <asac> doko: so our ppc isnt 64-bit?
[12:40] <asac> ok
[12:40] <asac> let me try
[12:41] <asac> ok build is running with linux32
[12:41] <cjwatson_> pitti: inclined to leave such decisions to Keybuk
[12:41] <cjwatson_> pitti: we clearly can't drop the whole source package
[12:41] <squirrelpimp> hi. If i prepend a command in a desktop-starter with ~ (e.g. ~/path/binary) to indicate it's in my home-folder, then the starter opens in a text-editor on double-click instead of launching the application
[12:42] <squirrelpimp> this happens on xfce, but i'm not sure which package to file the bug against
[12:42] <cjwatson> ~ is only parsed by certain things; try /home/yourusername/...
[12:42] <squirrelpimp> removing the ~ fixes it of course, but still it shouldn't open as a textfile
[12:42] <squirrelpimp> wouldn't it be intuitive to support ~ there as well?
[12:42] <cjwatson> technically you can really only assume that ~ is parsed by shells that do tilde expansion
[12:43] <cjwatson> I'm sure it would be *nice* to have it handled elsewhere but do be clear that it's only a wishlist bug
[12:43] <squirrelpimp> ok, i accept that
[12:43] <squirrelpimp> would it be of any benefit to file it? against what package? xubuntu-desktop?
[12:43] <cjwatson> I don't know what package, though; don't know XFCE
[12:44] <pitti> cjwatson: no, just the binary; ok, will ignore for now
[12:44] <pitti> sommer: sorry, that was supposed to go to soren
[12:47] <asac> doko: looks good so far. at least it built the 32-bit stub successfully now ... once the build finishes i will upload with sparc and powerpc fixes. not sure what to do with iwlib ... maybe just drop the whole define business (just on sparc?)?
[12:48] <doko> asac: already uploaded
[12:48] <asac> doko: did you drop it completely?
[12:49] <doko> asac: no, see https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/wireless-tools_29-2ubuntu4_29-2ubuntu5.diff.gz
[12:50] <doko> hmm, diff not yet in lp
[12:51] <unhappyaron> could somebody have a look at this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-pinyin/+bug/431823
[12:53] <asac> ok will check in a few minutes what you did :-P
[12:54] <asac> doko: ok fails the same way on ppc now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/277032/
[12:54] <asac> i assume its the same at least
[12:54] <doko> yep
[13:03] <soren> pitti: Huh?
[13:04] <soren> pitti: Oh.
[13:04]  * hyperair notes that ibus appears to hang urxvt
[13:05] <asac> doko: pushed /me crosses fingers
[13:09] <unhappyaron> hyperair: you could talk with lidaobing, he sumbitted the fix on the bug
[13:10] <hyperair> ooh is that so?
[13:10] <hyperair> that's cool
[13:10] <lidaobing> hyperair, hi
[13:10] <doko> asac: with a b-d on the new libiw-dev?
[13:11] <asac> doko: yes. but only on sparc/powerpc because we daily buld from that branch on old releases ... i hope i got it right
[13:11] <asac> otherwise ... retry ;)
[13:13] <asac> oh darn ;)
[13:13] <asac> i uploaded from wrong bzr branch ... moving the powerpc hacks further down
[13:14] <lidaobing> unhappyaron, I have no problem when I use ibus and urxvt
[13:15] <unhappyaron> lidaobing: it's hyperair said that "notes that ibus appears to hang urxvt", :)
[13:15] <unhappyaron> lidaobing: asac said he would have a look at that bug, that is what you need a sponser
[13:16] <hyperair> lidaobing: it happens with irssi in byobu, and holding down alt-`
[13:16] <hyperair> where alt-` is active_window
[13:19] <asac> ok reupped xul
[13:19] <asac> unhappyaron: ?
[13:19] <asac> id?
[13:21] <unhappyaron> asac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-pinyin/+bug/431823
[13:21] <asac> thx
[13:22] <Riddelll> pitti: I'll fix the khelpcentre dependency
[13:22] <lidb> hyperair: I am lidaobing, and I still can't reproduce your bug
[13:22] <unhappyaron> asac: if there is any problem, talk to lidb, :)
[13:22] <hyperair> need enough active channels =\
[13:22] <lidb> unhappyaron:test Chinese, 测试中文
[13:22] <unhappyaron> lidb: no problem
[13:23] <asac> unhappyaron: that bug is marked fix released
[13:23] <asac> plesae update me
[13:24] <asac> (what issues are left)
[13:25] <unhappyaron> asac: need some to have an upload to main
[13:25] <lidaobing> hyperair, sorry, can
[13:25] <lidaobing> hyperair, sorry, can't reproduce your bug
[13:25] <asac> unhappyaron: what package needs to be updated? and why?
[13:25] <unhappyaron> asac: ibus-pinyin, ibus-wubi-table
[13:26] <asac> why is that still needed?
[13:26] <asac> we dropped the overly strong depends
[13:26] <asac> so it should be fine without using lzma compression
[13:26] <lidaobing> unhappyaron, these two packages still have bugs, I'll fix soon
[13:26] <unhappyaron> lidaobing: okay
[13:26] <lidaobing> unhappyaron, leak version depends on dpkg
[13:26] <unhappyaron> lidaobing: so, okay
[13:27] <unhappyaron> asac: but using lzma there will have a 15M decrease on size
[13:28] <hyperair> lidaobing: nevermind. i can't reproduce it most of the time anyway
[13:29] <asac> unhappyaron: but it comes with performance decrease ... not really sure under what circumstances we go for lzma
[13:29] <asac> unhappyaron: whats the total size?
[13:30] <unhappyaron> asac: with no-lzma compress, there will be over 110MB to download when installing language support for zh_CN
[13:31] <unhappyaron> asac: with lzma compress, it will be just less that 100MB
[13:31]  * unhappyaron though that is still not a small volumn
[13:35] <asac> hmm
[13:35] <asac> dont we need to pre-depend on lzma or something?
[13:35] <unhappyaron> asac: I think you need to talk to lidb then, he is the fix-maker
[13:36] <unhappyaron> asac: he said there might be some problem there, but only he no the detail
[13:36] <unhappyaron> lidaobing: ^^^
[13:36] <asac> lidb: ?
[13:38] <asac> pitti: any rule of thumb when (what deb size) it makes sense to use lzma compression? ... also is it just adding lzma to dh_builddeb or do we need to tweak some depends for that?
[13:38] <arand> Bug #418135 << Should the SRU team be subscribed here? Seems like not much is happening with it atm... Kees ?
[13:39] <asac> arand: ask kees ... who probably would be best to decide/guide this bug
[13:41] <doko> asac: libwi-dev, not libiw-dev?
[13:42] <lidaobing> asac, hi
[13:42] <asac> doko: huh?
[13:42] <asac> doko: i dont see libwi-dev
[13:43] <doko> asac: you mention the wrong one in the changelog
[13:43] <asac> ok changelog ;)
[13:43] <lidaobing> asac, these two packages in widely used in China, but my people in China has a very low network speed
[13:43] <asac> control should be right
[13:43] <lidaobing> asac, that's why I recompress it with lzma
[13:43] <asac> lidaobing: yes. i am fine with it. just want to know if the change you did is enough
[13:44] <asac> waiting for answer atm
[13:44] <lidaobing> asac, currently it should be OK, and I am uploading it to ppa (for a build log)
[13:46] <asac> lidaobing: the building i sdefinitly ok. just wondere if we need a pre-depends on lzma
[13:48] <lidaobing> asac, pre-depends on verioned dpkg  is enough
[13:48] <lidaobing> asac, because dpkg is pre-depends on lzma
[13:48] <lidaobing> and asac ttf-arphic-uming use a smilar resolution
[13:51] <pitti> ugh, I still need to get used to the new brown
[13:52] <pitti> Riddelll: ok, so it's meant to stay in universe?
[13:52] <Riddelll> pitti: yes
[13:52] <pitti> asac: lzma> my gut feeling is that it's worth it if it saves 0.5 MB or more
[13:52] <pitti> asac: you need that, and Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.27ubuntu1)
[13:53] <jdub> asac: about?
[13:53] <asac> lidaobing: ok can you add that to the debdiffs?
[13:53] <jdub> caught! 8)
[13:53] <lidaobing> asac, add what?
[13:53] <asac> lidaobing: if not i can do that
[13:53] <asac> the pre-depends like above
[13:54] <asac> if its already in the package its ok
[13:54] <jdub> asac: you know about nm-applet missing libnm-glib-vpn?
[13:54] <lidaobing> asac, already done, check the new debdiff
[13:54] <lidaobing> asac, I have to go home, see you
[13:56] <seb128> hey jdub, it has been a while, how are you?
[13:56] <jdub> hey seb128
[13:56] <jdub> good
[13:56] <jdub> seb128: really enjoying karmic :-)
[13:57] <jdub> feels like it's going to be as good as breezy was in its day!
[13:57] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:57] <jdub> seb128: how have you been?
[13:57] <seb128> jdub, busy as usual but otherwise pretty good, thanks
[13:59] <jdub> seb128: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdubflickr/3942767533/ <- moved to the country, have a growing family ;-)
[14:00] <seb128> jdub, nice! ;-)
[14:00] <ogra> jdub, what, even more dogs ? :)
[14:01] <asac> jdub: we dont have that as a separate package
[14:02] <asac> jdub: is that a problem for you?
[14:03] <jdub> only when this happens... :-)
[14:03] <jdub> jdub@fehung:~$ ldd /usr/bin/nm-applet | grep vpn libnm-glib-vpn.so.0 => not found
[14:03] <jdub>
[14:03] <jdub> perhaps a missing glob in a .install file?
[14:04] <pitti> geser: Packaging Help> well said!
[14:04] <jdub> (means nm-applet won't run, which might be alarming/inconvenient for some testers)
[14:04] <jdub> oh no, there is a .so there, but so.1
[14:05] <jdub> shlibdeps issue?
[14:08] <hyperair> hmm something's wrong. why is it taking a whole 50 seconds to reach gdm now? it used to be only 25 seconds.
[14:08] <LaserJock> pitti: +1 on the +1 to geser :-)
[14:08] <pitti> hyperair: rotary disks? sreadahead is pretty broken on those right now
[14:08] <jdub> hyperair: it appears to be quite a bit slower when sreadahead is running; reboot again (without upgrading packages) and it'll be nice'n'fast
[14:09] <ArneGoetje> mvo: ok. Should u-m also check for missing packages and install them automatically? For example, if the user installed his system without internet connection and the first time he connects to the net, u-m could suggest to install the missing translation packages together with the other updates.
[14:12] <hyperair> jdub: this is my third reboot.
[14:12] <hyperair> without upgrading
[14:12] <hyperair> pitti: yeah it's rotary. i thought someone told me theo ther day that sreadahead is supposed to be on par with readahead even on rotary disks
[14:13] <pitti> hyperair: it is, but for me it just sits there idling for several minutes, and not fetching a single byte
[14:13] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090916-2.png
[14:13] <hyperair> pitti: meh. when does sreadahead run anyawy?
[14:13] <pitti> well, admittedly that's pretty old already, I should check again on current karmic
[14:13] <pitti> hyperair: well, it's _supposed_ to pre-fetch, of course :)
[14:13] <pitti> and it did work in the past
[14:14] <hyperair> sigh
[14:14] <hyperair> what runs in init-bottom?
[14:14] <hyperair> that itself takes a 10 seconds
[14:14] <pitti> well, I wouldn't start worrying just yet
[14:14] <hyperair> or was it 20
[14:14] <hyperair> yeah i think it was 20
[14:14] <pitti> Keybuk is killing boot bugs by the dozens, and it got tremendously better this week already
[14:15] <hyperair> hmm i see
[14:15] <pitti> I guess when he comes back from the conference next week, he'll tackle that as well
[14:15] <hyperair> cool
[14:15] <pitti> but there were far worse bugs so far, which actually broke booting completely
[14:15] <jdub> boot improvements have been amazing. exciting stuff :-)
[14:16] <sebner> pitti: haha, I just noticed my boot up needed 1.35 min. Instead of dirty karmic 48 secs
[14:16] <jdub> (and not just speed)
[14:16] <ogra> jdub, you mean like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32366612/dsc_3982.jpg ? :P
[14:16] <pitti> jdub: upstart FTW :)
[14:17]  * hyperair off to reboot again
[14:17] <ogra> yeah, upstart rules
[14:17] <hyperair> ..or not.
[14:17] <pitti> ogra: you seem to have a very bad camera :-)
[14:17] <hyperair> i meant for reboot, not upstart
[14:17] <ogra> pitti, lol
[14:17] <asac> jdub: can you file a quick bug about that?
[14:18] <jdub> asac: fo'sho
[14:18] <ogra> pitti, just a 16bpp framebuffer (usplash, gdm, desktop wallpaper, all display fine, just xsplash freaks out)
[14:18] <jdub> ogra: well, yes, i love the new xsplash artwork on decent screens ;)
[14:18] <ogra> heh
[14:19] <ogra> i love it on my lappie ... but it looks creepy on all my arm boards
[14:19] <hyperair> jdub: decent screens?
[14:19] <jdub> hyperair: cf. ogra's image
[14:19] <hyperair> ah
[14:20] <hyperair> somebody mentioned something about xsplash looking like a cylon licking its lips
[14:20] <ogra> hehe
[14:23] <asac> jdub: thats a -applet bug ... basically a respin now that i look at it. for one moment you scared me ;)
[14:25] <jdub> asac: ah, ok
[14:26] <jdub> asac: at least you'll have the satisfaction of closing that bug :-)
[14:26] <jdub> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/435888
[14:27] <pitti> hyperair: yep, still by and large looks the smae to me; a fractional second of I/O, and then long time nothing, and boot takes 85 seconds
[14:28] <hyperair> pitti: that sucks.
[14:28] <pitti> oh, presumably it regenerated the pack this time
[14:28] <hyperair> meh.
[14:28]  * pitti boots again
[14:30] <tseliot> kees: did you file an MIR about execstack?
[14:31] <dholbach> pitti: I'll have a look at the ibus stuff
[14:33] <dholbach> arneGoetje, pitti: is ibus-pinyin supposed to be in main? it build-deps on python-pysqlite2 which is in universe at least according to my updated pbuilder
[14:34] <pitti> I guess it's supposed to be in main, but deferring to ArneGoetje
[14:35] <pitti> hyperair: right, it wasn't just the pack creation; the large 20 second CPU block is gone now, but it still takes 85 seconds now (was 50 in alpha-5)
[14:35] <pitti> sreadahead is not doing anything
[14:35] <hyperair> @_@
[14:35] <hyperair> what a waste
[14:35] <pitti> hyperair: so, it doesn't seem to be specific to your system
[14:35] <hyperair> after i added the patch and recompiled too =\
[14:36] <hyperair> well that's good to know
[14:36] <hyperair> that it's not specific, i mean
[14:40] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: yes, ibus-pinyin is supposed to be in main
[14:41] <dholbach> pitti: ^ python-pysqlite2 is a build-depends of it and currently in universe - not sure what needs to happen there :/
[14:42] <Amaranth> yeah, sreadahead is broken here too
[14:42] <asac> dholbach: i am currently doing the ibus stuff
[14:42] <asac> if thats the lzma thing
[14:42] <dholbach> asac: uploaded already
[14:42] <Amaranth> I can see it in bootchart doing a lot of CPU when it needs to generate a pack file but it never seems to use it
[14:43] <asac> sigh
[14:43] <asac> who is double checking here?
[14:43] <dholbach> asac: what do you mean?
[14:44] <asac> dholbach: i mean: i think i said i was doing it, but then you suddenly popped up and did it
[14:44]  * pitti suggests to assign sponsoring bugs before starting on them
[14:44] <asac> dholbach: so i assume someone asked you after that
[14:44] <asac> or before or whatever ;)
[14:44] <dholbach> sorry, that was 2h ago and I wasn't around at the time and didn't read the backlog
[14:44] <asac> ok
[14:44] <dholbach> no, I just thought that the list of stuff on the list is very long
[14:44] <dholbach> and some of it should make it in for beta
[14:45] <asac> that was my idea
[14:45] <asac> i was explicitly pinged ;)
[14:45] <dholbach> I didn't see it
[14:45] <dholbach> sorry
[14:45] <dholbach> I have a look at thaifonts-scalable now
[14:45] <asac> all fine
[14:46] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: it could be that we need python-pysqlite2 in main (mir)
[14:47] <asac> i assume i shouldnt sponsor stuff when buried in other work so i dont loos time between preparing and uploading ;)
[14:47] <asac> or assign bug ;)
[14:49] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: IOW, I should create the MIR for it?
[14:50] <ScottK> Isn't sqlite natively supported in python now?
[14:50] <dholbach> I don't know if there's a way around it
[14:50] <pitti> ScottK: it is, sqlite3
[14:50] <ScottK> Ah.
[14:50] <dholbach> it imports sqlite3 and pysqlitedb or something
[14:50] <pitti> eww old version duplication
[14:51] <dholbach> but I don't understand too much of what's going on there
[14:51] <ScottK> Looks like we got that out of main two releases ago.
[14:53] <ArneGoetje> does that mean ibus-pinyin needs to be changed to work with the sqlite3 support from python instead? Or is it just an unnesessary dependency in the package?
[14:55] <al-maisan> hmm .. just did an 'sudo apt-get upgrade' and restarted, outcome: no wlan on either karmic box
[14:55] <al-maisan> there's also no network-manager applet in the upper right corner
[14:55] <al-maisan> is this a known issue?
[14:56] <al-maisan> any work-arounds? fixes?
[14:57] <jdub> al-maisan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/435888
[14:57] <jdub> al-maisan: i suspect asac will get to it soon
[14:57] <asac> yes
[14:57] <al-maisan> jdub: thanks for the info!
[14:58] <al-maisan> asac: :)
[14:58] <dholbach> hiya jdub
[15:00] <asac> al-maisan: jdub: uploaded
[15:00] <al-maisan> asac: great, thanks!
[15:00] <jdub> yo dholbach
[15:00] <jdub> asac: rock!
[15:00] <dholbach> how's life down under?
[15:00] <jdub> asac: just needed a sync?
[15:00] <jdub> dholbach: lovely
[15:00] <jdub> dholbach: moved to the country, got a dog, etc. ;-)
[15:01] <jdub> dholbach: still in berlin? how are you?
[15:01] <dholbach> jdub: when is a new planet release going to come up? ;-)
[15:01] <dholbach> jdub: good - Berlin is still great, dog is still around :-)
[15:01] <jdub> dholbach: "just use venus" 8)
[15:01] <jdub> dholbach: venus ~= planet 3.0 (and the ~ will go away soon)
[15:02] <dholbach> ah good - that will probably stop the python2.6 deprecation warning on my server ;-)
[15:02]  * dholbach hugs jdub
[15:03] <dholbach> jdub: you should hang around more often again
[15:03] <ogra> ++
[15:03] <ogra> ++++ actually :)
[15:03] <jdub> dholbach: yeah, that was fixed fairly recently
[15:03] <dholbach> jdub: rock and roll
[15:04] <jdub> oh, that reminds me, i need to contact mr. nuzum
[15:04] <jdub> about giving puc some love
[15:08] <pitti> asac: oh, using uuencode? wouldn't it be simpler to not have an orig.tar.gz for those snapshot?
[15:13] <soren> asac: I'm getting an XML error about an undefined entity when I access a site with self-signed cert. If I run firefox with LANG=C, it works. Does this sound familiar?
[15:14] <pitti> I have that, too; error in German translattions
[15:14] <soren> pitti: How do you work around it?
[15:14] <pitti> soren: LANG=C :-)
[15:14] <soren> thought so :)
[15:14] <soren> Ok, thanks.
[15:14] <pitti> I don't often have such pages, so it's not bothering me too much
[15:20] <asac> pitti: thats an exception because the file didnt land upstream
[15:20] <asac> pitti: did i forget the uudecode depend?
[15:20] <pitti> asac: no, it's probably fine, it just seems cumbersome to me
[15:20] <asac> yeah its temporary
[15:21] <asac> its not because of snapshot, but because of prepatch ... didnt want to wait for the final code cleanups to get this up
[15:22] <pitti> asac: I meant, if you don't use an orig.tar.gz, but a native tarball, you can just add them, instead of having to write extra debian/rules magic for this
[15:22] <pitti> nevermind, though
[15:22] <asac> pitti: ah ok. its fine for me. i like origs ;)
[15:22] <asac> also we have dailies etc.
[15:22] <asac> would have to teach them the difference too i guess
[15:26] <ogra> woah, asac !
[15:27] <ogra> i just got a mail to approve someone in the alioth ltsp team ... clicking the link in the mail makes FF explode in XML errors
[15:29] <liw> hm, gnome-terminal on karmic is now using Alt-B to move to the next tab -- is this intentional? true for everyone? (I'm rather fond of using alt-B using emacs keybindings in bash...)
[15:30] <pitti> liw: I have had alt-b backgrounding a window for ages, and it still works
[15:30] <liw> pitti, in the wm? wouldn't that override anything the app does?
[15:31] <pitti> liw: probably, yes
[15:40] <mvo> Riddell: in bug #349066 there is a update-manager task - is there anything that u-m can do here? that looks like its purely a user thing
[15:42] <jdub> E: Couldn't configure pre-depend sysvinit-utils for upstart, probably a dependency cycle.
[15:42] <Riddelll> mvo: we can close that for now, the plasma widget is back to being a simple binary started with the normal autostart mechanism
[15:44] <mvo> Riddell: thanks
[15:46] <Riddelll> mvo: however kbluetooth is crashing during upgrade, could we have the release upgrade tool killall kblueplugd and killall kbluetooth  ?
[15:50] <mvo> Riddell: sure, on full upgrades?
[15:50] <mvo> Riddell: there is no other way? I would prefer if it would be done without killing
[15:51] <Riddelll> mvo: there's no other way, kblueplugd doesn't have any way of quitting it
[15:54] <mvo> Riddell: ok, adding that now
[15:55] <mvo> Riddell: will we also need it for the 8.04 -> 10.04 lts upgrade?
[15:55] <Company> pitti: you gotta know this: what's the best way to enable system-wide core dumps?
[15:55] <kees> tseliot: I did, yes
[15:56] <Riddelll> mvo: I don't know, but it wouldn't hurt
[15:56] <tseliot> kees: where is it? Was it approved?
[15:56] <kees> arand: I intend to get it pushed but I've been caught up with higher priority stuff.
[15:57] <kees> tseliot: not sure if it was approved.  did you want to use it too?
[15:57] <tseliot> kees: yes for nvidia and fglrx
[15:57] <kees> tseliot: bug 418456
[15:57] <bddebian> doko: You around?  Do you see an issue with removing sun-java6 from Debian?  The only remaining build-dep is tijmp
[15:58] <kees> tseliot: ah, yes, approved.
[15:58] <tseliot> kees: ok, good. I'll fix both drivers then
[15:59] <mvo> Riddell: commited
[15:59] <doko> bddebian: see the minutes of the tech board
[15:59] <bddebian> doko: Sorry, which is where?
[16:00] <kees> tseliot: ok, thanks.  my problem has been with having hardware to test the results.
[16:00] <doko> I think, on the wiki, but maybe ask kees. looks like it's kept
[16:01] <kees> tseliot: also, I noticed that I needed to run execstack on each file separately since it would sometimes fail if I put multiple binaries on the same execstack command line.
[16:01] <tseliot> kees: ah, thanks for mentioning this problem
[16:02] <kees> bddebian: a whole mess of stuff got put on my blog post about it: http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2009/09/12/uninstall-sun-java6/
[16:02] <kees> bddebian: I was able to disprove some of the claims, but it seems like a lot of commercial products aren't "certified" on openjdk-6.
[16:03] <kees> tseliot: yeah, np.  you can see my results here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30916852/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180_185.18.36-0ubuntu2~kees2_185.18.36-0ubuntu2~kees3.diff.gz
[16:04] <tseliot> kees: ah, nice
[16:04] <kees> tseliot: even though sometimes it would work on one cmdline (though I'd change this to use multiple): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30883714/fglrx-installer_2%3A8.632-0ubuntu1_2%3A8.632-0ubuntu2~kees1.diff.gz
[16:05] <tseliot> kees: ok, I'll do call execstack multiple times
[16:05] <tseliot> s/do//
[16:05] <newproggie> hello everybody
[16:06] <newproggie> I have a question concerning packaging
[16:06] <bddebian> kees: Yeah I see that thanks, but I don't see a lot of "proof", much of it seems to be speculation.  "Oh I tried it a year ago and it didn't work.."
[16:06] <kees> tseliot: great, thanks for snagging this.  do you have hardware to test it with?
[16:06] <kees> bddebian: yeah.  I was trying to get people to give specific technical details...
[16:06] <newproggie> I'm trying to build a deb-package from source and there a two dependencies for this program
[16:06] <tseliot> kees: yes, and I also discussed this with upstream(s)
[16:06] <Riddelll> evand: what's the deal with the slideshow in ubiquity kde?
[16:07] <kees> tseliot: oh! what'd they have to say?
[16:07] <newproggie> where do I have to describe/name/put those two dependencies, please?
[16:07] <tseliot> kees: let's continue in a private chat
[16:08] <newproggie> or does dpkg-buildpackage do all the job for me?
[16:11] <cjwatson> newproggie: Build-Depends
[16:11] <cjwatson> newproggie: or Depends, depending on whether they're build-time or run-time dependencies. See the policy manual
[16:12] <newproggie> cjwatson: thanks, this is my first deb-package. I deleted the changelog file, because there was nothing to mention and now dpkg-buildpackage complains about it?
[16:17] <cjwatson> newproggie: debian/changelog is mandatory; again, it's probably best to start out by reading some documentation :)
[16:18] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Packaging has a bunch of reference links
[16:18] <newproggie> cjwatson: understand. The tutorial I was going through advised me to delete it..
[16:19] <cjwatson> newproggie: complain to its author!
[16:19] <directhex> the tutorial is bad at best, then
[16:19] <cjwatson> and use a different tutorial, I'd probably guess :)
[16:19] <newproggie> cjwatson: directhex: Guess so. I will read the packaging-Link, thanks guys
[16:42] <agutierr> hi
[16:46] <lamont> so if I'm running on some slightly strange hardware, and getty logins on ttyS0 exiting results in init not respawning the getty, what would be causing that?
[16:48] <doko> asac: at least the xulrunner build on powerpc suceeded
[16:49] <asac> doko: sparc still dep wait?
[16:49] <asac> building
[16:49] <doko> no, building
[16:49] <agutierr> I would like write a bash script to make unnatended installations of debian packages... I would like to know how I can know if apt is locked (/var/lib/dpkg/lock)
[16:50] <ion> It would be nice if dpkg, apt et al. would just wait for the lock.
[16:51] <agutierr> ion, How I can know in a bash script if apt is locked?
[17:01] <evand> Riddelll: there's a thread on ubuntu-installer about it.  Waiting to hear back from shytlman and picklesworth.
[17:07] <DnaX> NetworkManager applet broken (unable to connect): #435999
[17:07] <DnaX> bug #435999
[17:08] <jdub> DnaX: dupe of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/435888
[17:10] <DnaX> sorry for flood
[17:10] <DnaX> asac: ping
[17:10] <asac> ?
[17:11] <jdub> DnaX1: dupe of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/435888
[17:11] <DnaX1> ok
[17:12] <DnaX1> jdub: thanks
[17:13] <DnaX1> jdub: marked as duplicate
[17:16] <cypherbios> hi mvo, mpt: Do you guys have a channel to discuss software-store -related topics?
[17:17] <mpt> cypherbios, we use #ubuntu-desktop for that at the moment
[17:19] <bdmurray> pitti: looking at cups bug reports bug 420968 seems to have quite a few unmarked duplicates.  Why might the retracer not have marked them?
[17:31] <mdz> soren, are you taking care of the vmbuilder changes necessary to use the uec task instead of the hardcoded list for karmic?
[17:31] <mdz> soren, cjwatson sent you a patch
[17:47] <kirkland> any idea why my network manager disappeared from my toolbar after this mornings updates?
[17:48] <pitti> erm, indeed
[17:48] <pitti> I just rebooted, and it's gone for me as well
[17:48] <pitti> asac: halp!
[17:49] <pitti>  nm-applet
[17:49] <pitti> nm-applet: error while loading shared libraries: libnm-glib-vpn.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[17:49] <pitti> ah, that rings a bell
[17:49] <pitti> the n-m changelog spoke of a mini-abi transition
[17:54] <kirkland> pitti: ack, same here
[17:55] <pitti> bdmurray: indeed, and in fact we shouldn't get those kinds of reports in the first place (assertion errors without assertion messages), hmm
[17:55] <pitti> will have a deeper look at this
[17:55] <Martyn> Yep, dissapeared for me as well
[17:55] <Martyn> Oh well, there goes the manager until someone fixes it :)
[17:56] <pitti> Martyn, kirkland: it's most likely fixed already with  0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu2
[17:56] <pitti> should get published in about an ohur
[17:56] <kirkland> pitti: thanks
[17:56] <Martyn> okay
[17:56] <Martyn> I'
[17:56] <Martyn> I'll wait for publication :)
[17:57] <bdmurray> pitti: great, thanks
[17:58] <bdmurray> pitti: in the mean time is safe to consolidate those?
[17:58] <pitti> bdmurray: yes, absolutely
[18:01] <mdz> soren, cjwatson, there was a 20090924.1 server build for a little while, but it seems to have vanished?
[18:04] <cjwatson> cdimage is a rotation, one might be behind
[18:04] <cjwatson> or a cache or something - it's there on antimony
[18:11] <mdz> it was there for me, and then not there, in the same browser session on the same network, and no matter how many times I reload, I can't get it back
[18:18] <nxvl> asac: nm is broken, know issue or should i report it?
[18:20] <nxvl> asac: it's looking for libnm-glib-vpn.so.0, while there is libnm-glib-vpn.so.1 or libnm_glib_vpn.so.0
[18:21] <ion> to195628 < pitti> Martyn, kirkland: it's most likely fixed already with  0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu2
[18:25] <evand> gah, filing bugs on source packages is broken on edge.
[18:25] <ion> Is it just me, or does the software store icon look like a trashcan (with a recycle symbol and everything – only by looking closer you’ll notice it’s actually the Ubuntu logo)? :-P
[18:41] <Keybuk> I'm guessing that /+reportbug isn't supposed to OOPS! ? :p
[18:41] <beuno> Keybuk, correct. It will be fixed soon  :)
[18:42] <beuno> it should redirect you to a wiki telling you to use ubuntu-bugs
[18:42] <pitti> hey Keybuk
[18:42] <pitti> Keybuk: kudos for this week, awesome work!
[18:42] <Keybuk> pitti: hey
[18:42] <Keybuk> slangasek: should I upload further bug fixes to the ubuntu-boot PPA for now?
[18:42] <pitti> Keybuk: in between the conference and boot bugs, did you get sleep and food at all?
[18:42] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm avoiding food, food makes you fat
[18:43] <liw> a friend of mine has a new t-shirt which says: "SLEEP IS SO LAST NIGHT"
[18:43] <pitti> just living off the metropolian air? :-)
[18:43] <ion> liw: Hah
[18:44] <liw> Keybuk, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia ? :)
[18:55] <pitti> wow, I just got a whole slew of merge requests, some of them a month old
[18:56] <Keybuk> I'm at a conference
[18:57] <jcastro> post-freeze announcement "uh oh"s?
[18:57] <Keybuk> and it's Thursday
[18:57] <Keybuk> this means that my Internet line has gone down at home
[18:57] <LaserJock> pitti: yeah, did somebody clean out the mailing list moderation queue?
[18:57] <pitti> jcastro: no, more like LP emptying an old queue
[18:57] <jcastro> oh
[19:00] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I eventually got bored of that sort of thing and set up cron jobs at home to periodically kick the network
[19:00] <cjwatson> which did involve driving the router's web interface scriptably, which was kind of ugh
[19:00] <Keybuk> ah, my router doesn't have a web interface to speak of
[19:01] <Keybuk> I could drive some kind of robot chicken to press the reset button on it
[19:01] <cjwatson> ISAGN
[19:02] <Keybuk> hmm, fail
[19:02] <Keybuk> nm-applet: error while loading shared libraries: libnm-glib-vpn.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[19:03] <cjwatson> yeah, there's a bug filed
[19:03] <cjwatson> bug 435888
[19:03] <Keybuk> thankfully this wireless network does not need WPA
[19:07] <pitti> slangasek: ok to upload a pkg-create-dbgsym to fix the current glib2.0 FTBFS? I reproduced the failure in the test suite, and it's fixed now (one-liner, was grep catching "kfreebsd-i386" as "i386")
[19:07] <asac> nxvl: should be fixed in latest applet
[19:08] <pitti> slangasek: there are also some pending packaging cleanups from lool in the branch, but they don't affect the .deb (just some lintian stuff)
[19:08] <lool> Ah right intended to push after A6
[19:08] <lool> they are safe but we were too close to the previous milestone
[19:09] <pitti> slangasek: the essential changes are r138 (test suite) and r139 (fix) on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pkg-create-dbgsym/ubuntu/changes
[19:10] <nxvl> asac: so, fix has been commited, just need to wait for the archive to propagate?
[19:11] <asac> nxvl: what applet version are you running?
[19:11] <pitti> slangasek: since karmic is frozen, I uploaded it now (so you can reject it if you have doubts)
[19:11] <asac> nxvl: network-manager-gnome
[19:11]  * pitti -> dinner
[19:12] <nxvl> asac: 0.8~a~git.20090913t161448.cc2f6be-0ubuntu1
[19:12] <asac> nxvl: get 0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu2 or 3
[19:15] <nxvl> asac: apt isn't still downloading it :(
[19:17] <arand> kees: ping
[19:17] <kees> arand: hi!
[19:17] <slangasek> Keybuk: you should upload them to the queue so the release team can review them and shove them in? :)
[19:17] <slangasek> pitti: yes, please upload and I'll review as LPC bandwidth permits
[19:18] <arand> kees: Hia, I was wondering what's happening with Bug #418135 ?
[19:18] <Keybuk> slangasek: ok, sure
[19:19] <Keybuk> I've just been going through the bugs and making sure they're all targeted and milestoned as appropriate
[19:19] <Keybuk> obviously I won't fix all of them for beta
[19:19] <Keybuk> so if I don't, the target should help with the release notes generation
[19:19] <Keybuk> and then retarget to release
[19:19] <Keybuk> a couple a targeted directly to the release instead
[19:19] <slangasek> great, thanks
[19:19] <kees> arand: yeah, I intend to get it published, but I have been distracted by higher priority stuff.  I'm hoping to nail it down early next week while we are in beta freeze for karmic
[19:22] <arand> kees: ok, cool. I was just wondering since I hadn't heard anything.
[19:22] <kees> arand: yeah, getting it tested in each release is the time-consuming part.  :)
[19:26] <cjwatson> gah, debootstrap is still failing
[19:27] <mterry> persia, can you please make me a member of ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[19:27] <james_w> congratulations mterry
[19:28] <mterry> james_w, thanks!
[19:33] <evand> congratulations mterry!
[19:33] <mterry> evand, :)
[19:44] <cjwatson> wonder how this code ever worked
[19:44] <mvo> congrats mterry
[19:44] <mterry> mvo, thanks!
[20:05] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I still see "GRUB Loading"
[20:06] <cjwatson> correct
[20:06] <cjwatson> some things we can get rid of without particularly compromising debuggability. That one can't be got rid of without making it totally impossible to tell what's going wrong if something does
[20:07] <cjwatson> I've already explained this to robbiew and dbarth and they didn't object
[20:07] <robbiew> ack
[20:08] <robbiew> cjwatson: doesn't this also involve nasty assembly code?
[20:08] <cjwatson> it does, though that's mostly relevant in that the obvious workarounds (e.g. display the messages only if you hold down a certain key, or something) are extremely difficult; part of that message is in boot sector code limited to 512 bytes, indeed
[20:09] <slytherin> Now that we recomment use of ubuntu-bug to report the bug, how relevant is the LP integration patch for an app?
[20:11] <Amaranth> slytherin: Doesn't it do the same thing?
[20:11] <Amaranth> It's easier from the menu
[20:12] <slytherin> Amaranth: does menu use apport?
[20:12] <cjwatson> it *used* to go to +filebug directly, although it's ages since I looked at that code
[20:12] <cjwatson> if it still does, I'm sure it would be easy and worthwhile to make it use apport
[20:12] <cjwatson> since a menu item doesn't involve a terminal, or looking up the file name, etc.
[20:13] <slytherin> hmm, I will have to take a look.
[20:19] <slytherin> what could be possible reasons that a /dev/dvd1 node is created sometimes and sometimes not.
[20:23] <Keybuk> slytherin: there's a bug report open about that
[20:24] <Keybuk> (I don't know why it doesn't work sometimes for some people)
[20:24] <sebner> mighty Keybuk, what just happned there? O_o .. http://img441.imageshack.us/i/ubuntukarmic200909241m.png/
[20:25] <slytherin> Keybuk: can you please point me to that bug?
[20:45] <al-maisan> hmm .. metacity crashing after the latest upgrade and system generally per
[20:45] <al-maisan> s/per/feeling somewhat sluggish/
[20:53] <al-maisan_> the laptop in question was upgraded from jaunty, I guess it's time for a fresh install ..
[21:15] <smoser> anyone have thoughts on this...
[21:16] <smoser> i want to put a marker file (or config file) in some location under /etc/ec2-init that indicates whether ec2-init should be active or not active (it would not be active by default)
[21:16] <smoser> simplist thing would be to just decide based on the presence of 'active' in /etc/ec2-init/active
[21:17] <smoser> or should i put/require "active=1" or some other syntax / config there
[21:18] <smoser> mathiaz, i'll pick you to bother by name
[22:02] <jono> what are these heart things in NM?
[22:03] <slangasek> Legend of Zelda: 802.11n Association
[22:05] <tormod> can I have a pony instead of a heart?
[22:08] <slangasek> you can have a pony's heart
[22:15] <mdz> cjwatson, is euca_conf part of eucalyptus or something we added?
[22:16] <cjwatson> mdz: part of eucalyptus, although we added the --discover-nodes option
[22:17] <mdz> cjwatson, do you mind if I reply to your email on ubuntu-devel?
[22:17] <cjwatson> not at all
[22:19] <cjwatson> hmm, does avahi's service resolver only return the first address it finds?
[22:20] <mdz> kirkland, do you know ^^?
[22:20] <kirkland> mdz: cjwatson: that has been my operating assumption
[22:21] <slangasek> Keybuk: there's a util-linux change in here to remove the adjtime file unconditionally on upgrade from pre-jaunty?  that doesn't seem to line up with any of the changelog entries
[22:22] <seb128> re
[22:22]  * slangasek waves to seb128
[22:22] <seb128> slangasek, did you get my question before?
[22:22] <slangasek> seb128: seems not, sorry
[22:22] <slangasek> seb128: repeat?
 slangasek, hello
[22:22] <seb128>  slangasek, do you want to be pinged on IRC about uploads?
[22:22] <seb128>  or do you just poll on the queue every now and then and decide from the diff and changelog?
[22:22] <kirkland> mdz: cjwatson: i'm taking a quick look at the source code now
[22:23] <slangasek> seb128: ah, definitely the latter
[22:23] <mdz> smoser, how are the UEC images looking for beta?
[22:23] <slangasek> seb128: especially this week, while I'm on conference bandwidth
[22:23] <cjwatson> kirkland: I'm not convinced, I'm only getting it to give me one back here (the IPv6 one, most of the time)
[22:23] <seb128> slangasek, ok, I did upload a papyon (msn provider for telepathy) one liner to fix an incorrect number of arguments in a function
[22:23] <slangasek> Keybuk: NB, you shouldn't need "update-rc.d -f" because you're removing the files in the preinst so there should no longer be any overriding needed
[22:24] <seb128> slangasek, there is a new indicator-messages version from dx guys
[22:24] <slangasek> seb128: yep, I'm in the queue right now working on these
[22:24] <seb128> slangasek, and I did upload a one liner bluez change to change the ranking on the gstreamer sink there so it stops hijacking easy codec install
[22:24] <slangasek> well - working on util-linux currently, will be working on the others in the queue soon
[22:26] <jono> cjwatson, around?
[22:30] <cjwatson> jono: kind ofm but focusing, is it urgent?
[22:31] <cjwatson> jono: (if it is, you have to fight with mdz)
[22:32] <jono> cjwatson, mdz has asked me to get people together for testing eucalyptus, and says it is urgent, but I need to know what to ask them to test and he said you are best to ask
[22:32] <jono> can you mail me with a list of what needs testing?
[22:32] <cjwatson> ok, I'll try
[22:32] <cjwatson> mdz: note I can't do much more tonight
[22:32] <jono> thanks, I am trying to source people now
[22:34] <jono> mdz, it seems we are going to need a new ISO built
[22:34] <kirkland> cjwatson: so i don't mind modifying that one liner in the iso to do my testing
[22:35] <kirkland> cjwatson: but to ask anyone else to do testing on our behalf, i think we'd want to spin a new iso
[22:35] <cjwatson> yes yes
[22:35] <cjwatson> I want to upload eucalyptus with my bits from tonight too
[22:35] <cjwatson> but my laptop is a bit loaded so give me a few minutes
[22:35] <seb128> slangasek, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution-indicator/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/preinst seems correct to you?
[22:36] <jono> ok, so I will wait for the ISO and simple test plan from cjwatson before I ask the testers to kick off
[22:36]  * cjwatson shuts down the VMs for now
[22:36] <seb128> slangasek, I ask before uploading since we have 3 of those to upload
[22:36] <jono> in the meantime I will continue to source some more testers
[22:36] <slangasek> seb128: checking
[22:36] <seb128> slangasek, those are not conffile, that's file with one line listing a desktop file and have been added a few days ago in karmic
[22:37] <seb128> slangasek, not sure while kenvandine put "" too I will probably clean those before uploading
[22:37] <slangasek> seb128: if not a conffile, what is it?
[22:38] <seb128> slangasek, what I just said, a one liner listing a .desktop launcher for the indicator message applet
[22:38] <slangasek> seb128: created how?
[22:38] <Laney> no need for -release to be on bug 436082, please unsubscribe
[22:38] <seb128> slangasek, they are being moved to usr now, which explain why we clean those on upgrade
[22:38] <seb128> slangasek, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution-indicator/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/rules
[22:39] <seb128> slangasek, echo ... > in rules
[22:39] <slangasek> seb128: so... it should automatically have been made a conffile
[22:39] <seb128> slangasek, well, I meant they are not real conffile in the sense they will not have user changes
[22:39] <seb128> slangasek, ie no need to check md5sum for changes and backup those
[22:39] <jono> cjwatson, btw, kirkland is going to take care of putting together a screencast showing what needs testing so you can get to bed
[22:40] <slangasek> seb128: ok - not completely correct policy-wise, then, but I'll accept it through the queue if you upload it :)
[22:40] <slangasek> (i.e., I won't make you do extra work here if you're confident)
[22:40] <seb128> slangasek, ok thanks
[22:40] <seb128> slangasek, well I'm always happy to take constructive comments for next time ;-)
[22:40] <cjwatson> jono: ah, good
[22:40] <jono> cjwatson, I will ask Jorge to transcribe the video when it is done
[22:41] <seb128> slangasek, you would have use the standard debian wiki snippet for those?
[22:41] <cjwatson> kirkland: do you need anything from me for that? my mail should be of some help with workarounds for known problems and the like, so that people can get to the point of uploading images which I assume is the thing we really want tested
[22:41] <slangasek> seb128: my method is: am I removing something marked as a conffile by dpkg?  Yes -> steal the snippet from dpkg.org :)
[22:41] <slangasek> seb128: yeah
[22:41] <cjwatson> (there's no point in repeatedly testing the stuff I just tested ...)
[22:41] <slangasek> seb128: that way, I don't have to even /consider/ the question of whether the conffiles would have relevant user changes :)
[22:41] <seb128> ;-)
[22:42] <kenvandine> seb128, slangasek: noted :)
[22:42] <Martyn> Last update killed the network monitor
[22:42] <seb128> kenvandine, I've added a --ignore-fail-on-non-empty to rmdir too
[22:42] <seb128> kenvandine, that avoids having the warning displayed
[22:42] <Martyn> is nm going to be updated again in a little bit?
[22:43] <Martyn> Hmmm .. this last update turned a lot of the UI soooo brown
[22:43] <Martyn> not sure how I feel about karmic being so .. brown
[22:43] <kenvandine> seb128, thx
[22:46] <tormod> Martyn, #ubuntu+1 is the place to discuss karmic (and nm-applet is fixed now)
[22:55] <Martyn> Meep
[22:55] <mdz> cjwatson, can kirkland and I take care of any remaining tasks for you so you can quit for the day?
[23:00] <kirkland> jono: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcx8HZWSYB8
[23:01] <smoser> mdz, i'll put a status together tomorrow. but all in all pretty good. bug 431255 and then kernel bugs 431103 and bug 428692
[23:03] <cjwatson> mdz: I've uploaded eucalyptus 1.6~bzr854-0ubuntu3; it would be most helpful if somebody could take care of respinning server images once binaries for that in the archive
[23:03] <cjwatson> s/in the/are in the/
[23:03] <cjwatson> mdz: 'for-project ubuntu-server cron.daily' as the cdimage user on antimony
[23:06] <seb128> slangasek, evolution-indicator empathy pidgin uploading for those etc cleaning
[23:06] <slangasek> seb128: ack, will grab them soon, thanks
[23:06] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[23:09] <cjwatson> mdz: oh, my eucalyptus upload is waiting for RM approval
[23:10] <cjwatson> mdz: anyway, need to crash now - night
[23:15] <mdz> cjwatson, thank you, good night
[23:22] <seb128> slangasek, new libdbusmenu from dxteam uploaded, there is a small abi breakage without soname change but ted says the function should no be in the abi and nothing use it (the lib is new in karmic and still only used by what ted writes)
[23:22] <slangasek> tedg: when are you taking this function out of the ABI then? :)
[23:25] <slangasek> doko_: you said you fixed OOo on armel; is that fix included in 1:3.1.1-2ubuntu1, and should bug #417009 be closed?
[23:26] <slangasek> lool, ogra: ^^ can you confirm whether OOo is fixed on armel now?
[23:28] <doko_> slangasek: no, that's another thing while debugging this one. I have a roadmap now, will follow up tomorrow
[23:28] <slangasek> ah :(
[23:36] <ebroder> Does lilo-installer/skip not work in Hardy?
[23:44] <seb128> slangasek, indicator-session update upload for dx guys too
[23:44] <seb128> uploaded