[08:54] <tumbleweed> Symmetria: your debian mirror is lagging again. Can you add some monitoring for this, please, it's a real pain
[09:54] <sakhi> happy Sunday
[12:11] <afrodeity> maaz: coffee please
[12:11] <Maaz> afrodeity: There isn't a pot on
[12:11] <afrodeity> maaz: grind the beans
[12:11] <Maaz> afrodeity: *blink*
[12:12] <afrodeity> anybody happen to know what the correct permission should be for dchlient-script?
[12:12] <afrodeity> mine is -rwsr-xr-x but it no working
[16:12]  * Kilos shivers in silence
[16:22] <Kilos> hi all
[16:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[16:22]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[16:22] <superfly> hi Kilos
[16:22] <Kilos> hi superfly
[16:23] <Kilos> i used a 6g drive and installed maverick without updating and then upgraded to natty and it works fine
[16:23] <Kilos> so will upgrade mine in aus when data not a prob
[16:26] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[16:26] <Kilos> Maaz, ty buddy
[16:26] <Maaz> Kilos: *blink*
[16:26] <Kilos> hehe
[16:27] <Kilos> stupid bot
[16:30] <nlsthzn> Kilos: so are you enjoying Unity?
[16:31] <Kilos> it is the classic nlsthzn
[16:31] <Kilos> because it says my hardware no good
[16:31] <nlsthzn> Kilos: still... that sucks... oh well...
[16:31] <Kilos> lol
[16:31]  * nlsthzn is now on the slickest Gnome 2.x install he as ever seen... Katya is so sexy...
[16:32] <Kilos> is Katya an os
[16:32] <nlsthzn> Kilos: Linux Mint 11 "Katya"
[16:32] <Kilos> ah
[16:33] <Kilos> i like gnome it is very noob friendly
[16:33] <Kilos> easy to use
[16:33] <Kilos> kubunt will take me months to work out
[16:34] <nlsthzn> Kilos: :) once you get used to it you will find it as as easy as Gnome
[16:34] <Kilos> yeah just in the beginning nothing is visible. you gotta hunt
[16:34] <Kilos> and add to panel etc
[16:35] <afrodeity> this is annoying, sudo dhclient does nothing, and network-manager refuses to manage even a tadpole
[16:35] <Kilos> i am sure it will be a stiff challenge for office jacks and the like
[16:35] <Kilos> lol
[16:36] <afrodeity> I feel like we're being deprecated into dumb-down mode
[16:38] <marcog> afrodeity: if ubuntu is too dumbed-down for you, there are many other distros out there
[16:38] <Kilos> like windows
[16:39] <marcog> i mean linux distros :P
[16:39] <Kilos> lol
[16:39] <marcog> like gentoo, arch, etc.
[16:39] <Kilos> dont upset him marcog
[16:39] <Kilos> he is an expert ranter
[16:39] <marcog> i don't mean to upset
[16:39] <marcog> lol Kilos
[16:39] <Kilos> hehe
[16:41] <nlsthzn> Ubuntu suites me cause you can install and use it... as opposed to setting it up to make it useful :)
[16:41] <marcog> same here
[16:41] <Kilos> yeah
[16:41] <marcog> but there's no one-size-fits-all
[16:41] <Kilos> ubuntu ++
[16:41] <nlsthzn> and in that vain Mint does even a better job of that than Ubuntu...
[16:41] <nlsthzn> install and go...
[16:42] <marcog> i explored more distros back when i had the time
[16:42] <marcog> right now, ubuntu gets the job done and is widely supported by the community
[16:42] <nlsthzn> True...
[16:43] <afrodeity> febuntu?
[16:45] <nlsthzn> afrodeity: ?
[16:45] <afrodeity> I upgraded my kernel because they got rid of the kernel lock in 39
[16:46] <nlsthzn> afrodeity: have they also sorted out the power regression that was reported?
[16:47] <afrodeity> 39 appears to be huge improvement on 38 which was problematic
[16:47] <afrodeity> no laptop, so can't report on power issues
[16:48]  * afrodeity is listening to Trihedron featuring Opus - DJ Krush (The Message At The Depth) ::: 01. DJ Krush - Trihedron featuring Opus.mp3 ::: 00:35/06:33 @ 192kbps
[17:03] <superfly> afrodeity: did you try to add the interface name after "dhclient"? That *always* works for me
[17:24] <afrodeity> yep, tried sudo dhclient eth0
[17:25] <afrodeity> which command lists interfaces again?
[17:26] <queery> iwlist
[17:26] <queery> is that what you are looking for?
[17:26] <queery> of ifconfig
[17:27] <afrodeity> :)
[17:28] <afrodeity> iwlist is a new one
[17:28] <queery> yea but don't work with all eth
[17:28] <queery> I like it for wifi scanning
[17:28] <queery> sudo iwlist scan
[17:29] <afrodeity> interface no support scanning
[17:30] <queery> you have to be root or sudo to scan the wifi (i'v found)
[17:30] <afrodeity> I am root
[17:30] <queery> oh ok
[17:30] <queery> then it's back to ifconfig
[17:31] <afrodeity> I wish we hadn't split the browser from the os
[17:32] <queery> hu?
[17:32] <afrodeity> off topic, but it would be faster if we just booted into a browser
[17:33] <queery> ok im out
[17:33] <queery> l8er tweeps
[17:33] <afrodeity> oops
[17:40] <superfly> afrodeity: since when was the browser part of the OS (apart from Windows)
[17:42] <magellanic> and chromeos ;)
[17:44] <superfly> magellanic: it's still not technically part of the OS, it's the desktop shell
[17:45] <magellanic> okay, isn't that the same case with windows then
[17:46] <superfly> no, with Windows, the Trident engine is a system DLL
[17:46] <superfly> remember that with Windows, the GUI is part of the OS, they are integrated and inseparable
[17:46] <superfly> on Linux our GUI apps run in X, which itself is just another app on the box
[17:47] <magellanic> hmm okay
[17:50] <afrodeity> it is in a sense, if you surf via a shell, but its an architectural problem
[18:34] <kbmonkey> evening
[18:46] <superfly> hi kbmonkey
[18:51] <kbmonkey> hi superfly
[19:03] <Kilos> lo kbmonkey
[19:03] <Kilos> kinda cold to sit here
[19:06] <superfly> Kilos: get a blanket and put it over your legs
[19:07] <Kilos> lol. got one but fingers freeze too
[19:08] <superfly> ah
[19:08] <Kilos> wait i get a beanie for ears as well
[19:08] <superfly> it's not that cold here
[19:08] <Kilos> lol
[19:08] <superfly> hehe
[19:08] <kbmonkey> just type faster! he he
[19:08] <Kilos> then no one will understand
[19:08] <kbmonkey> kubuntu 11.04 usb wont boot up on my netbook :/
[19:09]  * superfly gets his "No I won't fix your computer!" quilt his mom-in-law made
[19:09] <kbmonkey> I want a throw with tux on it
[19:10] <kbmonkey> hot chocolate help too
[19:10] <kbmonkey> just dont burn your fingers when you dip them
[19:10] <Kilos> hehe
[19:24] <Kilos> how many usb ports you got kbmonkey
[19:24] <Kilos> do they all not work
[19:25] <kbmonkey> 4 back and 2 front and they all work
[19:25] <Kilos> kubuntu 11.04 usb wont boot up on my netbook :/ ??
[19:25] <kbmonkey> 4x-usb hub connected too. having port problems?
[19:25] <Kilos> what am i missing
[19:26] <kbmonkey> which ones?
[19:26] <Kilos> lol
[19:26] <Kilos> you said you got that prob not me
[19:27] <kbmonkey> oh lol, no the usb ports work fine, the usb disk wont boot :)
[19:27] <Kilos> my maverick works but member with karmic and the lynx i sometimes had to move things from port to port
[19:27] <kbmonkey> just black, no text nothing. I boot other OS's fine
[19:27] <Kilos> whats on the stick
[19:27] <kbmonkey> kubuntu 11.04
[19:27] <kbmonkey> I used tuxboot to make it from a ISO
[19:27] <Kilos> then you didnt do the iso thing right
[19:28] <Kilos> ah
[19:28] <kbmonkey> however I made the ISO from a CD using dd. that should be fine hey?
[19:28] <kbmonkey> tuxboot is a updated fork of unetbooting
[19:28] <Kilos> i only made one and used the startup disk creator
[19:29] <Kilos> copied iso to desktop and then did it
[19:29] <kbmonkey> ah, well I dont have the startup disk creator as Im in a crunchbang linux :)
[19:29] <Kilos> ah i learn more
[19:29] <Kilos> lol
[19:31] <Kilos> i went to all the trouble of making a boot stick then found my pc cant do the usb boot thing hehe
[19:31] <kbmonkey> me too!
[19:32] <Kilos> i remember something about unetbootin as well. cant remember where it fitted in
[19:32] <kbmonkey> that was the tool recommended on the Ubuntu help wiki to make usb disks
[19:32] <Kilos> ah maybe i did that too
[19:33] <Kilos> now just need someone to invent a heated keyboard for winter
[19:40] <nlsthzn> Kilos: the main ubuntu site recommends how to make a bootable USB... but it won't matter if your hardware doesn't support it :)
[19:40] <Kilos> lol yeah.
[19:42] <nlsthzn> as soon as youtube finishes uploading a vid a made I will making a blog post about linux mint 11 with some eye-candy :)
[19:43] <Kilos> how do you know if a site has got probs
[19:43] <Kilos> i used this till a week ago and now it dont work anymore
[19:44] <Kilos> Unable to load page
[19:44] <Kilos> Problem occurred while loading the URL http://www.fsms.co.za/next-gen/messages/compose
[19:44] <Kilos> Cannot connect to destination (www.fsms.co.za)
[19:44] <nlsthzn> Kilos: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
[19:44] <kbmonkey> cool, give us the link when you do nlsthzn
[19:45] <nlsthzn> kbmonkey: will do
[19:45] <Kilos> lol. just me it says
[19:46] <Kilos> wonder who there doesnt like me
[19:46] <nlsthzn> Kilos: let me try
[19:46] <nlsthzn> Kilos: so far no go for me
[19:46] <Kilos> i get there but it doesnt send anymore
[19:47] <Kilos> http://www.fsms.co.za/
[19:47] <nlsthzn> Kilos: ah I am also in now... but it seems slow
[19:47] <Kilos> i went there and did the register bit about a month ago and it worked kiff
[19:47] <nlsthzn> maybe the service is a bit over loaded... try refreshing using ctrl+f5
[19:48] <Kilos> ok
[19:50] <Kilos> now it tells me vodacom  is doing maintenance work on their sms site
[19:50] <Kilos> for the last week?
[19:50] <Kilos> can only be in africa
[19:51] <kbmonkey> you sound surprised ;P
[19:56] <Kilos> lol
[19:57] <Kilos> works to mtn though so i am happy its not here by me
[19:57] <Kilos> didnt think of trying to a mtn fone till now
[19:58] <Kilos> actually very kiff when it works that site. you send free smses in sa
[19:59] <Kilos> now i want to find one that works to aus
[19:59] <kbmonkey> superfly, you do any/occasional CSS? Know a nice editor?
[20:00] <superfly> kbmonkey: I usually use Kate for HTML and CSS
[20:00] <nlsthzn> Kilos: that is nice... I pay a pretty penny sending messages from here to SA
[20:01] <Kilos> nlsthzn, i think all you need is a sa fone number to register with then it will work from there too
[20:02] <Kilos> i was skeptical first so used a sim no. i dont use anymore and it worked fine
[20:02] <nlsthzn> Kilos: lol, I still have a contract that I have been unable to cancel for more than a year now :/
[20:02] <Kilos> good use that one
[20:02] <Kilos> i am sure it will work and you get 20 smses a day
[20:03] <nlsthzn> Kilos: over kill :)
[20:03] <Kilos> you dont have to use them dodo
[20:03] <Kilos> i used 2 or 3 a week
[20:04] <nlsthzn> so annoying uploading video @ 100kbps :/
[20:05] <Kilos> lol
[20:05] <Kilos> try gprs
[20:05] <Kilos> 14K onna good day
[20:06] <nlsthzn> Kilos: 3G is nice and fast
[20:06] <Kilos> but with broadband you get limited by the providers
[20:07] <Kilos> this modem is only 6 months old and boet not sure if its a 3.2m/s or the 7.?
[20:08] <superfly> Kilos: probably a 7,2
[20:08] <Kilos> but havent seen it over 200KB/s here yet
[20:08] <superfly> *7.2
[20:08] <Kilos> then i had the 3.? wrong
[20:09] <Kilos> 3.6 hey
[20:10] <nlsthzn> you should get close to 1mbps with 3G if memory serves... best way to test is to get a torrent with enough seeders...
[20:11] <Kilos> yeah so they say. i am sure they choke the things
[20:11] <Kilos> or their servers or whatever they got
[20:12] <Kilos> no data to test things. was on gprs so long even 100K is great
[20:13] <nlsthzn> :) the more you get the sooner you realize it isn't enought :)
[20:13] <Kilos> lol
[20:13] <Kilos> you didnt read the need for speed
[20:14] <Kilos> but with data at this price uncapped is the answer
[20:15] <nlsthzn> Kilos: yup... biggest bargain here is the fact that is uncapped...
[20:16] <Kilos> yeah must be heaven
[20:17] <nlsthzn> Kilos: yup... coming to SA in December and the first thought I was how am I going to do anything online ... here if you don't have internet there are hordes of cheap internet cafes everywhere... you are always connected :/
[20:18] <nuvolari> o/
[20:18] <nuvolari> naand om Kilos, nlsthzn
[20:18] <nlsthzn> nuvolari: hey
[20:18] <Kilos> naand nuvolari
[20:21] <kbmonkey> naand!
[20:21] <Kilos> lol naand apie
[20:21] <nuvolari> hallo kbmonkey
[20:21] <kbmonkey> lol kbapie
[20:22] <Kilos> lol
[20:22] <Kilos> sbapie
[20:23] <Kilos> dont mix your tales
[20:23] <nlsthzn> :)
[20:24] <kbmonkey> oook oook
[20:24] <nlsthzn> You speak the language most deliciously
[20:24]  * kbmonkey pushes the banana button on the keyboard and a fruit drops from a slot
[20:24] <kbmonkey> aah, no electrical shocks today
[20:28] <Kilos> hehehe
[20:34] <nuvolari> lol
[20:34] <Kilos> nlsthzn, try that sms goodie i am hoping it works from aus
[20:35] <Kilos> you can be the guinee pig
[20:35] <nlsthzn> Kilos: k... give me a moment
[20:35] <Kilos> k
[20:35] <nuvolari> guinea?
[20:36] <nlsthzn> Kilos: site is s   l     o                w            ... zzzzz
[20:36] <Kilos> yeah not written in python
[20:37] <Kilos> used to be faster a month back
[20:37] <Kilos> i think they didnt expect so many peeps to use it so its not big enough
[20:41] <nlsthzn> Kilos: one problem... how do you get a reply ? :p
[20:42] <Kilos> in your inbox
[20:43] <nlsthzn> Kilos: oh... and now I need to give a code... yet I have no idea where that bloody sim card is... or what my pin is... but it seems it will work fine from anywhere on the planet... no issues as yet
[20:44] <Kilos> sorry for all the hard work but if you get it working you can save some
[20:47] <nlsthzn> Kilos: nah not really... much more hassle than it is worth... when I hit SA in December I am cancelling it in any case
[20:48] <Kilos> yeah but this fsms works great if they will just upgrade it
[20:49] <Kilos> and smses to aus are close to R2 a time
[21:02] <nuvolari> I'm beat. g'night everyone
[21:03] <Kilos> nag seun. lekker slaap
[21:04] <nlsthzn> nuvolari: good night
[21:08] <Kilos> methinks it be a good idea to go sleep too. night all of you
[21:10] <nlsthzn> Kilos: good night...
[21:14] <kbmonkey> g'nite to all going to zzz :)
[21:14] <nlsthzn> kbmonkey: http://nlsthzn.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/hello-katya-my-latest-mistress/ for your viewing pleasure...
[21:15] <nlsthzn> doh too late...
[21:15] <nlsthzn> night kbmonkey
[21:16] <nlsthzn> cheers all... got to get my beauty sleep too :)


[06:47] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:26] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[07:26] <brobostigon> \o
[07:26] <brobostigon> just submitted my first app for google assistant, :)
[07:28] <zmoylan-pi> keyed on the command 'ok google, i wonder what this does' it sets loud marching band brass band music for 0300? :-P
[07:29] <brobostigon> hehe, :D
[07:29] <brobostigon> nah, its a ST and D&D quiz.
[07:50] <brobostigon> and i have found some pretty obscure questions like, "which actress has been a starfleet captain and starred in murder she wrote?"
[07:59] <zmoylan-pi> not remembering a captain... https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Madlyn_Rhue
[08:05] <knightwise> Kahns great love !
[08:05] <knightwise> actress i'm not sure
[08:05] <knightwise> but acTOR is william Shanerr
[08:05] <knightwise> brobostigon: what is the answer btw ?
[08:06] <brobostigon> knightwise: kate mulgrew.
[08:06] <knightwise> of course
[08:11] <knightwise> New blogpost up : Connect to your server with sshfs from any os: https://knightwise.com/mounting-remote-directories-over-ssh-from-windows-linux-and-the-mac/
[08:12] <brobostigon> :)
[08:18] <knightwise> Been getting a lot more writing done since i've started using this old imac with Helium
[08:18] <knightwise> its a lot more distraction free ...
[08:21] <brobostigon> another pretty obscure one "Which electronic creature in ST:TMP is rumoured to have inspired the creation of the borg?"
[08:22] <knightwise> the binars ?
[08:22] <knightwise>  That or data
[08:22] <knightwise> or those self aware little robot vacuum cleaners
[08:23] <brobostigon> ST:TMP = star trek: the motion picture. sorry, but the binars nor data were in that film.
[08:24] <knightwise> Sorry , then it's of course Vger
[08:24] <knightwise> in the Shatner books they actually have a story where Vger is linked to the borg
[08:25] <brobostigon> :)
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> there are a lot of books...
[08:26] <brobostigon> i couldnt find a better description for it, than an electronic creature.
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> electronic entity?
[08:26] <brobostigon> knightwise: i put in an alternative answer, voyager 6, which it is also called in some books.
[08:27] <brobostigon> self aware electronic entity?
[08:28] <zmoylan-pi> entity implies self awareness, no?
[08:28] <brobostigon> possibily.
[08:29] <zmoylan-pi> they kinda covered it well in tng with data's status as a being been questioned and the metacomp episode where the automated drone tools become self aware
[08:30] <brobostigon> good point, yes.
[08:30] <brobostigon> that was a good episode.
[08:31] <brobostigon> or when data created lal.
[08:31] <zmoylan-pi> also great episode
[08:33] <brobostigon> or the one when some one from starfleet wants to disassemble data to study him, and jean-luc fights for datas rights to object to the procedure.
[08:33] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, that's the measure of a man episode i mentioned earlier
[08:34] <brobostigon> because that ep with the nanocomps, is a seperate ep.
[08:34] <zmoylan-pi> i know
[08:34] <brobostigon> :)
[08:34] <knightwise> amazing eip
[08:34] <knightwise> episode
[08:35] <zmoylan-pi> tng had a lot of *GREAT* episodes, some turkeys too mind
[08:37] <knightwise> Oh yesss
[08:37] <knightwise> the one where riker is a higly wanted commodity on a planet ruled by women :)
[08:37] <knightwise> and the one where they are on a planet where nobody walks , just JOGS and Wesley messes up their sacred flowerbeds
[08:37] <zmoylan-pi> wasn't that all of them? :-P
[08:38] <knightwise> No , thats MY autobiography :p
[08:39] <brobostigon> last one that i put in too, which actor was the in TOS pilot 'where no man has gone before' and 2001: a space odyssey?
[08:41] <knightwise> Ah easy
[08:41] <knightwise> Gary Mitchell
[08:41] <knightwise> Helmsman-turns-god and Dave Bowman in 2°°1
[08:42] <brobostigon> gary lockwood.
[08:42] <brobostigon> thats his character name in that ep. :)
[08:43] <knightwise> yep :) I know . I'm realy bad with actor names :p
[08:43] <brobostigon> :)
[08:43] <brobostigon> i thought up 20 in total.
[08:46] <knightwise> :)
[08:46] <brobostigon> :)
[08:46] <zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lockwood
[08:47] <brobostigon> :)
[08:52] <zmoylan-pi> i just get distracted reading the wikipedia articles of the various actors and what else they where in...
[08:53] <brobostigon> :)
[08:54] <brobostigon> those are the good questions, because they dont just require knowledge of the specific subject, but also much wider.
[08:57] <brobostigon> like, umm. which actor been in ST:TNG, TBBT and diagnosis murder?
[09:03] <knightwise> tbbt ?
[09:03] <knightwise> ah big bang
[09:03] <knightwise> leonard nemoy ?
[09:03] <knightwise> nImoy
[09:04] <brobostigon> wil wheaton
[09:06] <brobostigon> leonard nimoy was in columbo.
[09:08] <knightwise> ah .. i don't know diagnosis murder
[09:08] <knightwise> nimoy was also in mission impossible
[09:08] <brobostigon> didnt know that, :)
[09:09] <knightwise> the original series with jim phelps
[09:09] <brobostigon> ah.


[12:29] <aceralex> hello, i have the following question, i hope its well related to the channel topic
[12:29] <aceralex> i want to send an email with attached appointment to lotus notes, that is imported automatically there?
[12:29] <aceralex> does anyone knopw how to do?
[12:33] <Pendulum> aceralex: this isn't a support channel
[12:36] <aceralex> hmm ok
[16:00] <mvo> hi
[16:00] <ev> hello
[16:01] <csurbhi> hie
[16:02] <barry> hi
[16:02] <ev> cjwatson, doko_: ping
[16:03] <ev> right, hopefully they'll catch up.  I've text messaged Scott as well.
[16:03] <ev> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ev.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:04] <ev> [TOPIC] lightning round!
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round!
[16:04] <ev> ah, Scott is having connection issues
[16:04] <ev> order: surbhi, barry, mvo, ev, doko, Keybuk, cjwatson
[16:04] <doko_> pong
[16:04] <ev> hello doko_
[16:04] <barry> is surbhi here today?
[16:05] <ev> ah, csurbhi you're up :)
[16:05] <barry> ah
[16:05]  * ev fixes the template
[16:05] <csurbhi> sorry
[16:05] <csurbhi> i have almost finished the btrfs support for grub-2
[16:05] <csurbhi> what remains to be done is decompression
[16:05] <ev> \o/
[16:05] <csurbhi> i am looking at it
[16:05] <csurbhi> the btrfs patch needs to be tested
[16:06] <csurbhi> i am planning to send out a patch on grub mailing list today
[16:06] <csurbhi> was trying to figure out the licensing issues (GPLV2 vs GPLv3)
[16:06] <csurbhi> chris mason has agreed to look at the code
[16:06] <csurbhi> and ack it as GPL3 if it looks good
[16:06] <csurbhi> so I am keeping my fingers crossed
[16:06] <ev> awesome
[16:06] <ev> good luck! :)
[16:06] <csurbhi> meanwhile I am also looking at the decompression usage
[16:06] <csurbhi> grub2 does not have zlib support yet
[16:06] <csurbhi> ev, thanks a lot :)
[16:07] <cjwatson> sorry, my stepson was 10 minutes late out of school
[16:07] <csurbhi> luck is very much needed
[16:07] <ev> no worries
[16:07] <ev> haha
[16:07] <cjwatson> oh, good that you got a response from Chris
[16:07]  * mvo sends good luck as well if that helps :)
[16:07] <csurbhi> cjwatson, just a few minutes ago
[16:07] <cjwatson> rock
[16:07] <csurbhi> :-)
[16:07] <csurbhi> mvo, thanks.. it will surely help
[16:07] <csurbhi> so am looking at the user space zlib code and how to use it
[16:08] <csurbhi> writing a separate program to decompress a compressed .zip file
[16:08] <csurbhi> once thats done, i am through with this :)
[16:08] <csurbhi> and ofcourse the review - changes !
[16:08] <csurbhi> thats it from my end ..
[16:08] <ev> nice
[16:08] <ev> barry: you're up
[16:08] <barry> f-m-robust-python-packaging: worked on versioned .so patches for py3.2; pushed branch; engaged upstream; todo: catch up on thread and continue discussion in python-dev. f-m-python-versions: python 2.7 archive rebuilding and testing; ppa uploads going slow, need a script; worked on sbuild environment. f-m-python-continuous-integration: work on package to generate best-practices python packaging w/debian.  f-m-python-versions: sbuild
[16:08] <barry> environment for python 2.7 archive rebuilding; working on automated script to rebulid python rdepends.  done.
[16:09] <mvo> working on "buy-stuff" and "new-apps" specs for software-center, general s-c work/merging, fix auto-upgrade tester for lucid->maverick.
[16:09] <mvo> (done)
[16:09] <ev> Mostly been creating the wireless network configuration page for ubiquity.  I've got the basic code working with network-manager, just cleaning it up and abstracting it so I can later add connman support.
[16:09] <ev> If I finish this and its UI code before the end of the week, I'll finish integrating some of the UI work for the automatic partitioning page.
[16:09] <ev> (done)
[16:09] <mvo> nice
[16:10] <doko_> python2.7 rc2 for barry, some MIRs, linaro test-rebuild, openjdk-6 update to b20, investigate openjdk-6 regressions for 6b18, linaro gcc cross packaging merges (together with hrw), all in all, too much linaro
[16:10] <doko_> done
[16:10] <ev> haha
[16:10] <ev> keybuk isn't here, so that leaves cjwatson
[16:10] <cjwatson> done: got UEFI support mostly working as long as you make your own arrangements to boot the installer; stolen for OEM project (mostly done); fixed some long-standing grub2 maintainer script bugs
[16:11] <cjwatson> todo: alpha-2; get started on foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer (I have a VM prepared for the purpose); more foundations-m-package-culling merges (esp. installer bits)
[16:11] <cjwatson> --
[16:11] <ev> #topic outstanding actions from the last meeting
[16:12] <ev> syntax fail!
[16:12] <ev> anyway, there weren't any :-P
[16:12] <ev> [TOPIC] alpha-2
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  alpha-2
[16:12] <ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27560 looks okay
[16:13] <ev> any other thoughts on the alpha?  A very late landing of the installer and Wubi, which was my fault.  Apologies.
[16:13] <cjwatson> don't really know the output of testing yet :)
[16:14] <ev> [TOPIC] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ - no excuses, lend a hand (he says, having not done so himself)
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ - no excuses, lend a hand (he says, having not done so himself)
[16:14] <ev> wow, I'm failing all over the place with this MootBot stuff
[16:14] <ev> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:14] <cjwatson> reminder: 10.04.1 is not that far off
[16:15] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[16:15] <cjwatson> if you have anything you want in there, please get it into the SRU queue ASAP
[16:15] <ev> right, I've got some Live USB upgrade bugs to fix if memory serves.
[16:15] <cjwatson> yeah, I uploaded casper for one of those but I think there was at least one more
[16:15] <mvo> I will do another round of hardy -> lucid upgrade testing
[16:16] <cjwatson> I uploaded a batch of grub2 fixes today, and would like to try to get in a fix for USB-to-USB installations (wrt GRUB installation target) as well
[16:16] <ev> Regarding posting our activity reports directly to the wiki, did we ever discuss what we should do with Canonical-internal items?
[16:16] <cjwatson> we're a little behind on the SRU queue but it's not too bad, maybe 10 items
[16:17] <cjwatson> I don't remember discussing that
[16:17] <ev> yeah, me either, but I wanted to be sure
[16:17] <cjwatson> my snap opinion would be just send them to Robbie out of band
[16:17] <ev> agreed, okay
[16:17] <cjwatson> or, you know, just make sure your boss knows what you're doing :)
[16:17] <ev> hahaha
[16:17] <cjwatson> that's basically the point of reporting on internal items anyway
[16:18] <ev> indeed
[16:18] <ev> Anything else?
[16:19] <ev> right
[16:19] <cjwatson> I'll regenerate the list of stale merges after alpha-2's out, I think
[16:19] <cjwatson> (sorry, that's all)
[16:19] <ev> okay
[16:19] <ev> no worries :)
[16:19] <ev> [TOPIC] Good news
[16:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
[16:19] <ev> Glade's support for custom pygtk widgets is actually quite nice.  I'm remodelling a fair bit of ubiquity in that form as I implement the redesign.
[16:20] <ev> A few of you haven't yet posted your activity reports to the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0630).  Please do so as soon as you can.
[16:21] <ev> Anything else?
[16:21] <cjwatson> firefox goes so much quicker when you reduce to five tabs
[16:21] <ev> We're doing roulette with the chair as well, correct?
[16:21] <cjwatson> *ahem*
[16:21] <ev> lol
[16:21] <ev> Chrome *ahem*
[16:21] <cjwatson> chair> correct
[16:21] <barry> cjwatson: i've almost completely switched to chromium
[16:22] <cjwatson> didn't get on with its general feel when I last tried, may try again at some point
[16:22] <barry> cjwatson: otoh, i do miss my favorite ff plugins.  haven't checked out the chrome plugin ecosystem yet
[16:23] <ev> cjwatson: you were the last chair, right?
[16:23] <cjwatson> I think I missed my week
[16:23] <ev> oh, then you're up :)
[16:23] <cjwatson> roulette says it's csurbhi's turn, although I can make up for my missed week if that's better
[16:23] <ev> ah, that works
[16:23] <ev> whichever is fine by me
[16:23]  * csurbhi agrees :P
[16:24]  * csurbhi agrees that its better if cjwatson chairs the next meeting
[16:24] <ev> MonoDevelop sucks far less nowadays, for those of you doing Python development.
[16:24] <cjwatson> heh, ok
[16:24] <barry> man, i'm glad you haven't yet discovered that sekrit magikal hack in the script that always sorts barry >= 1 :)
[16:24] <ev> Not quite there (''' ''' results in hilarity), but mostly good enough.
[16:24] <ev> lol
[16:24] <ev> right
[16:24] <ev> #endmeeting
[16:24] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:24.
[16:25] <ev> thanks all!
[16:25] <barry> ev: doing a lot of c# these days?
[16:25] <ev> barry: Python
[16:25] <ev> I just like the idea of an IDE
[16:25] <mvo> thanks
[16:25] <barry> ah, cool!
[16:25] <mvo> sounds like something to try out
[16:25] <ev> and it seems to roughly match pyflakes.vim in magic powers
[16:25] <ev> plus it has an integrated debugger (though I haven't given that a go yet)
[16:25] <csurbhi> ev, thanks
[16:26] <ev> if you do try it, use the Mono Team's PPA
[16:26] <ev> err rather, http://badgerports.org/
[16:27] <ev> cheers


[00:57] <lazyPower> designated: he does, he's UK based - so timezone offeset
[00:57] <lazyPower> *offset
[16:18] <tvansteenburgh> dpb1: bundletester 0.4.4 up on pypi
[16:19] <lazyPower> \o/
[17:06] <tvansteenburgh> jose: ping
[18:21] <noise][> hi, i'm having a problem where a previously working local juju environment suddenly won't bootstrap anymore
[18:21] <noise][> getting: "start: Job is already running: juju-agent-bret-local
[18:21] <noise][> Bootstrap failed, destroying environment"
[18:21] <noise][> but no juju procs running, nothing in lxc-ls
[18:23] <marcoceppi> noise][: have you tried `juju destroy-environment --force local`
[18:24] <noise][> marcoceppi: yes, i started with a running env, destroyed it to start clean w/that command, then it failed to bootstrap
[18:24] <marcoceppi> noise][: what dose `sudo initctl list | grep juju` show?
[18:25] <noise][> marcoceppi: juju-agent-bret-local start/running
[18:25] <marcoceppi> noise][: do this, `sudo stop juju-agent-bret-local`
[18:25] <marcoceppi> noise][: then `sudo rm -f /etc/init/juju-agent-bret-local.conf`
[18:25] <marcoceppi> then try to bootstrap
[18:26] <noise][> marcoceppi: that worked, thanks for the quick help!
[18:27] <marcoceppi> noise][: no worries, I'm working on a "juju local provider power plugin" which will make these weird edge cases easier to detect and fix in the future
[18:27] <noise][> excellent :)


[11:49] <DarkPlayer> wgrant: is there any reason why ehoovers PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~ehoover/+archive/compholio ) is almost empty for all current ubuntu releases ? I somehow doubt that he deleted all his packages.
[11:54] <cjwatson> DarkPlayer: All the packages that have been deleted from that PPA for recent releases were deleted by ehoover themselves with no reason given.
[11:55] <DarkPlayer> oO
[11:56] <cjwatson> See e.g. https://launchpad.net/%7Eehoover/+archive/compholio/+sourcepub/3538775/+listing-archive-extra
[11:57] <DarkPlayer> cjwatson: thanks for the answer, although i have now more questions than before lol
[11:57] <cjwatson> But questions for ehoover, presumably :-)
[11:58] <maxb> Looks like he's trying to migrate to using launchpad recipes, but hasn't quite made it work yet
[11:59] <DarkPlayer> yeah, but deleting all packages doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to do this lol
[12:00] <cjwatson> Certainly not a necessary way to do things.  It may have been an accident.
[12:15] <DarkPlayer> cjwatson: i never deleted any packages in a PPA, can this be an accident or do you need to manually delete every single package ?
[12:16] <cjwatson> DarkPlayer: By "accident", I mean that perhaps he only meant to delete the failing versions and didn't intend to leave the PPA without older versions of the package.
[12:17] <cjwatson> Perhaps "misunderstanding" rather than "accident"
[12:17] <cjwatson> Anyway, I can only speculate.  You should ask him
[12:17] <DarkPlayer> failed builds shouldn't be shown in the package list anyway ?
[12:18] <DarkPlayer> but thanks, i will ask him when he gets online
[12:34] <dobey> DarkPlayer: failed builds most certainly are, and should be, shown in the +packages view. they simply don't have published binaries, because they failed, so apt-get install won't install the failed one, but apt-get source will grab the source that failed (as it's the latest source in the PPA)
[13:01] <cjwatson> Builders on manual for a code upgrade
[13:59] <zyga> hi
[13:59] <zyga> http://launchpad.net/builders
[13:59] <zyga> what does the 'manual' status mean?
[13:59] <zyga> are builders having issues now?
[14:00] <cjwatson> zyga: They're being upgraded
[14:00] <cjwatson> They'll be back shortly
[14:00] <zyga> thanks!
[14:01] <roadmr> \o/
[14:06] <vWave> I am getting a OOPS error and can't get past logging in, can someone help?
[14:15] <vWave> I am getting an OOPS error, can someone help?
[14:15] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I'll be able to, but you should start by quoting the OOPS ID.
[14:15] <cjwatson> Since we definitely can't help without that :-)
[14:16] <vWave> lets giv it a shot.. the id is OOPS-f2adf2d78a898102427da4ba6d1b4168
[14:18] <vWave> it occurs right after I hit the logon button
[14:24] <cjwatson>     email = removeSecurityProxy(person.preferredemail).email
[14:24] <cjwatson> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'email'
[14:26]  * cjwatson tries to work out how that can be so
[14:28] <vWave> it has been like that for many months, it said a report was sent to sysadmin to correct the issue
[14:28] <vWave> I want to submit bugs for ubuntu gnome distro, but can't
[14:29] <cjwatson> I see you have a confirmed e-mail address, but no preferred one for some reason
[14:30] <cjwatson> I don't know how that could have happened; it will need to wait until wgrant or StevenK is around, who may know how to fix this
[14:31] <cjwatson> Was this account created directly in Launchpad, or via some other service?
[14:32] <wgrant> Which account?
[14:32] <vWave> launchpad signup years ago... it used to work
[14:32] <wgrant> vWave: What's your Launchpad username?
[14:33] <vWave> my email address?
[14:33] <cjwatson> I /msged it to wgrant
[14:33] <wgrant> vWave: Can you try logging in again?
[14:33] <vWave> sure...
[14:34] <vWave> woohoo it let me in
[14:35] <wgrant> Excellent.
[14:35] <vWave> what happened?
[14:35] <vWave> thank y'all
[14:36] <wgrant> Someone unsuspended your account incorrectly.
[14:36] <vWave> say whaaaaa
[15:23] <dobey> anyone else noticed that merge proposal diffs on lp seem to be not refreshing?
[20:42] <zbenjamin> Hi guys
[20:43] <zbenjamin> is there a way i can query the lists of ppa subscriptions for a user in the python library? i only can find a link to the archive but not the archive itself
[20:46] <zbenjamin> basically i need a way to get the data from that link: launchpad.me.ppas_collection_link
[20:54] <zbenjamin> found it, nevermind
[21:45] <cjwatson> zbenjamin: In case you found some less optimal way: you can iterate over launchpad.me.ppas
[21:49] <cjwatson> zbenjamin: Although that's a list of the PPAs that user owns, not a list of the ones they're subscribed to.  launchpad.me.getArchiveSubscriptionURLs() gives the latter, but in sources.list format rather than as references to the archive objects.  I'm not sure if there's a good way to get the latter.
[21:55] <zbenjamin> i'm using launchpad.load(user.ppas_collection_link)
[21:55] <zbenjamin> cjwatson: ^
[21:55] <zbenjamin> i'm checking the other one out thank you
[22:00] <cjwatson> Thought you might have gone for that.  It'll kind of work, but it's much more cumbersome.


[15:22] <mup> Bug #1903544 opened: Commissioning failed without error <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903544>
[19:28] <mup> Bug #1903586 opened: gateway reappears after reconfiguring dhcp <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903586>
[19:28] <mup> Bug #1903587 opened: Allow "Register as MAAS KVM Host" for any version of Ubuntu in the UI <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903587>
[19:31] <mup> Bug #1903586 changed: gateway reappears after reconfiguring dhcp <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903586>
[19:32] <mup> Bug #1903587 changed: Allow "Register as MAAS KVM Host" for any version of Ubuntu in the UI <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903587>
[19:35] <mup> Bug #1903586 opened: gateway reappears after reconfiguring dhcp <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903586>
[19:35] <mup> Bug #1903587 opened: Allow "Register as MAAS KVM Host" for any version of Ubuntu in the UI <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1903587>


[16:46] <hazmat> where did the export bundle stuff go?
[16:47] <hazmat> just have to find shift d i guess
[22:08] <rick_h_> hazmat: in th efooter
[22:09] <rick_h_> hazmat: as part of the deployer bar


[08:57] <TheMue> morning all
[09:02] <fwereade_> heya TheMue
[09:02] <wrtp> fwereade_, TheMue: yo!
[09:02] <TheMue> fwereade_: moin
[09:03] <TheMue> wrtp: moin
[11:43] <TheMue> lunchtime
[12:30] <niemeyer> Morning all
[12:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: moin
[12:33] <niemeyer> TheMue: Heya
[12:41] <wrtp> niemeyer: hiya
[12:41] <hazmat> g'morning
[12:51] <fwereade_> wtf, it's hailing
[12:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: Any chances of a few additional reviews? You've reviewed the tips but the pre-reqs are blocking them
[12:52] <fwereade_> this is not why I moved to the med
[12:54] <wrtp> niemeyer: i thought i'd reviewed 'em all.
[12:54] <niemeyer> wrtp: Nope, there are still pending ones in the queue
[12:54] <wrtp> niemeyer: one mo, i'll try and remember where the queue page is again... :-)
[12:55] <niemeyer> wrtp: Meanwhile, I'll code a quick one
[12:55] <niemeyer> wrtp: TO disable stats so that performance checks do not affect them
[12:59] <wrtp> sometimes i want a forward link as well as a backward link, so i can easily find the next review to do...
[13:27] <wrtp> niemeyer: done, i think. let me know if i've missed any
[13:28] <niemeyer> wrtp: You have, the one I'm pushing *right now*! ;-)
[13:28] <wrtp> :-)
[13:28] <niemeyer> wrtp: Should be a breeze, though
[13:30] <niemeyer> wrtp: https://codereview.appspot.com/6061045
[13:32] <wrtp> niemeyer: wouldn't it be better to have stats enabled by default?
[13:33] <wrtp> niemeyer: i.e. disablestats=1 rather than stats!=0
[13:33] <niemeyer> wrtp: It is enabled by default.. isn't it?
[13:33] <wrtp> niemeyer: it needs the "stats" field in the form to be set, no?
[13:33] <niemeyer> wrtp: Nope
[13:33] <niemeyer> wrtp: It needs it to not be set to zero
[13:34] <niemeyer> wrtp: Note that tests continue passing
[13:34] <wrtp> doh
[13:35] <wrtp> niemeyer: LGTM
[13:35] <niemeyer> wrtp: Cheers!
[13:35] <wrtp> niemeyer: i still don't see why you can't just use a blank user name in the key BTW
[13:36] <niemeyer> wrtp: A blank string is a valid token
[13:36] <wrtp> rather than having those if statements strewn everywhere
[13:36] <wrtp> niemeyer: why's that a problem?
[13:37] <niemeyer> wrtp: It's a problem because there's no point in having to match it
[13:37] <niemeyer> wrtp: The data should be foo:bar, not foo:bar::
[13:37] <niemeyer> wrtp: Just like the URL is cs:oneiric/hadoop, not cs:~/oneiric/hadoop
[13:39] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: hi
[13:40] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: hiya
[13:40] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: everything ok?
[13:40] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: good thanks
[13:42] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: I run the ec2 (go port) tests here in my machine, but they are failing
[13:42] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: I need to do something to run these tests?
[13:42] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: please run with -gocheck.vv and send me the output
[13:43] <wrtp> niemeyer: is "cs:~/oneiric/hadoop" valid?
[13:43] <niemeyer> wrtp: No, it's not.. that was the point
[13:44] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: http://paste.ubuntu.com/933966/
[13:44] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: It's need set the AWS envs?
[13:45] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: you need to set up an amazon AWS account and set your $AWS_ variables appropriately
[13:45] <wrtp> niemeyer: how visible are the keys to users?
[13:46] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think that having all charm keys of the form series:name:user: even when user is blank should be ok, if it's not generally visible.
[13:46] <wrtp> niemeyer: it would remove quite a few lines of code, at any rate :-)
[13:46] <niemeyer> wrtp: It doesn't matter.. let's please not be lazy.
[13:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: The data is oneiric:hadoop.. not oneiric:hadoop::
[13:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: i don't think it's lazy, i think it's appropriate canonicalisation
[13:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: You're trying to save a couple of lines of code.. I can put that in a function if it bothers you so much, but it shouldn't affect the desired data format that we want
[13:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: The proper data format is oneiric:hadoop, not oneiric:hadoop:
[13:50] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: this for local tests?
[13:50] <fwereade_> niemeyer, re https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eniemeyer/juju/go-store-blitz-key/+merge/102230 ...I don't quite get what performance is being tested there, it doesn't seem like it'd hit anything very significant?
[13:51] <niemeyer> fwereade_: wrtp misunderstood the point of that key, and that's of course because I've been extremely vague about it
[13:51] <niemeyer> fwereade_: This is just a validation key to tell the service we own this site
[13:52] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ha! ok, that suddenly makes lots more sense
[13:52] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: ah, they shouldn't be... that might be a bug. in the meantime, try setting the AWS_ variables to something random and see if it works
[13:53] <wrtp> niemeyer: ah! i thought it was used directly as part of a performance test...
[13:53] <niemeyer> wrtp: No, the goal is to test the real endpoints
[13:53] <wrtp> niemeyer: cool, i understand now. i wondered about the strange form of the URL.
[13:54] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's why we need stats=0 as well
[13:56] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: yes, it's a bug. will fix. but for the time being, just do export AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID=x; export AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY=x; before running the tests
[13:57] <fwereade_> niemeyer, hmm, it seems like stats=0 is a choice between skewing the stats and skewing the performance data
[13:58] <fwereade_> niemeyer, and while obviously we don't want to skew the stats, it doesn't feel quite right
[13:59] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I agree, obviously we don't want to skew the stats :-)
[14:00] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Hmm.. we can put the IncCounter run in the background, actually
[14:00] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Which means it won't affect the response timing either way
[14:00] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: ok!
[14:02] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, it's still load on the server, isn't it, even if it doesn't necessarily directly affect the response time of that query? I'd be happiest if we could switch it to perform a real write to a different place
[14:02] <fwereade_> niemeyer, but that'll potentially have different characteristics too, so maybe I'm heading up the garden path here
[14:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: how about defining a function like this and using it throughout: http://paste.ubuntu.com/933992/
 wrtp: You're trying to save a couple of lines of code.. I can put that in a function if it bothers you so much, (...)
[14:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yes :)
[14:04] <wrtp> niemeyer: it would make me happier, yeah. that "if curl.User" test is in quite a few places.
[14:04] <niemeyer> wrtp: Sure, will do it
[14:05] <niemeyer> fwereade_: That feels a bit over the top for the level of traffic we currently have :-)
[14:05] <fwereade_> niemeyer, yeah, garden path :)
[14:06] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'm most interested in knowing which ballpark we're in, and measuring that every once in a while to see how it's going
[14:06] <niemeyer> fwereade_: It's far from being any kind of issue that would require such care
[14:06] <fwereade_> niemeyer, indeed
[14:06] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I appreciate your input though, for real
[14:06] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think i agree with fwereade_ that we should in general test the usual path (including stats gathering). but it's useful to be able to turn off stats too, so that we can see how much overhead they impose.
[14:07] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I will move these calls to the background, and put that with the change wrtp just requested
[14:07] <fwereade_> niemeyer, perfect, thanks
[14:07] <wrtp> niemeyer: sounds good
[14:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_, wrtp: https://codereview.appspot.com/6063043
[14:32] <wrtp> niemeyer: chunk mismatch :-(
[14:32] <wrtp> niemeyer: oh, it's working now
[14:32] <wrtp> oh no it's not
[14:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, LGTM
[14:33] <niemeyer> What the heck..
[14:33] <fwereade_> (I see no mismatches...)
[14:33] <niemeyer> Well.. wrtp: https://codereview.appspot.com/6063043/patch/1/3
[14:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: You're probably not looking at the side-by-side
[14:34] <wrtp> niemeyer: yeah, that works fine for me
[14:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, that is true
[14:35] <niemeyer> Hmm.. I'll have to add a trick to the test to stabilize it
[14:35] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'd implement use the same function in the test.
[14:36] <niemeyer> wrtp: I prefer to see it in the test
[14:36] <niemeyer> wrtp: Most of them are constants
[14:36] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok
[14:37] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'm slightly concerned about the number of background IncCounters there may end up being. depends on the traffic i guess.
[14:38] <niemeyer> wrtp: They're necessarily proportional to the number of background requests being handled
[14:38] <niemeyer> wrtp: If incrementing a counter is more expensive than handling the request, something is wrong
[14:39] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok, if you're sure about that.
[14:40] <niemeyer> wrtp: Well, it's more that I can't imagine how either of those statements could possibly be false.. :-)
[14:42] <wrtp> niemeyer: only if the IncCounters aren't completing in a timely way and something's hammering the server with a cheap request.
[14:42] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's addressed by the second point
[14:43] <wrtp> niemeyer: indeed.
[15:03] <niemeyer> Lunch time.. back in a bit to finish merging/applying reviews
[16:07]  * niemeyer waves
[16:13]  * wrtp waves back.
[16:27] <fwereade_> gn all, happy evenings
[16:41] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Cheers!
[16:41] <niemeyer> wrtp: I think I forgot a couple of renames you requested, but still have them in mind. Will submit them at the end of the pipeline.
[16:41] <wrtp> niemeyer: i was just trying to go back and have a look at the reviews, but my gmail seems to be down.
[16:48] <wrtp> niemeyer: still down. let me know here of anything you'd like me to respond to...
[16:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: I think it's all good in general.. I've agreed to most things you've said
[16:48] <wrtp> niemeyer: could you paste a link to the CL please...
[16:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: I actually didn't miss the review points I mention above either.. they were in the caching branch, which is still not in
[16:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: Which one the 7-8 ones? :-)
[16:49] <wrtp> niemeyer: the more recent one (it has links to the previous ones)
[16:49] <wrtp> s/more/most/
[16:50] <niemeyer> wrtp: https://code.launchpad.net/~niemeyer/juju/go-store-stats-bg/+merge/102316
[16:51] <wrtp> i'm sure i sent a LGTM for that one, oh well
[16:52] <niemeyer> wrtp: You did on IRC
[16:52] <wrtp> ah, must've forgot to do it on codereview
[16:53] <wrtp> just the cache one to go
[17:04] <niemeyer> Oh, I think I missed what fwereade_ meant in one of his comments
[17:16] <niemeyer> TheMue: ping
[17:30] <TheMue> niemeyer: pong
[17:30] <niemeyer> TheMue: Heya
[17:31] <niemeyer> TheMue: Just wanted to see how the branch is coming
[17:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: hi, today i have a real splitted day
[17:31] <niemeyer> TheMue:  Did you read my follow up comments yesterday?
[17:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: yes, and the changed ChangeWatcher is now in testing and will then go in
[17:32] <niemeyer> TheMue: Super.. did it feel good while doing the changes?
[17:33] <TheMue> niemeyer: it would have been better if the GetW() watch also accepts ZNONODE and later can be used for new created nodes
[17:33] <TheMue> niemeyer: but i think i found a way
[17:34] <niemeyer> TheMue: Cool
[17:36] <TheMue> niemeyer: it now also does a re-get if a first get runs on a ZNONODE, does an ExistsW() for the needed watch and stat is not nil (aka somebody has created the node exactly between the get and the exists)
[17:36] <niemeyer> TheMue: Cool
[17:36] <niemeyer> TheMue: Does it do a re-exists too, if the node disappears? :-)
[17:37] <TheMue> yip
[17:37] <TheMue> niemeyer: eh, yup ;)
[17:37] <niemeyer> TheMue: Hehe :)
[17:37] <niemeyer> TheMue: Super
[17:37] <TheMue> niemeyer: it's a loop waiting for the correct criterias
[17:39] <niemeyer> TheMue: Makes sense
[17:39] <niemeyer> TheMue: It's awesome to have that well abstracted away in that compact form
[17:40] <TheMue> niemeyer: test looks good
[17:47] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: I'm thinking in move cloudinit to environs package. Because it's used for all providers, ec2, local etc
[17:48] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: is it used for the local provider?
[17:49] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: somethings, like jujuOrigin and other things
[17:49] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: i was certainly thinking of moving into the environs package at some point, but i didn't think it was quite time yet
[17:50] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: I'm writing the local provider
[17:50] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: does the local provider actually execute the cloudinit init script?
[17:51] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: i was under the impression that the local environ would execute the agents directly.
[17:51] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: (but i'm fuzzy in this area :-])
[17:54] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: i'm going to have to go very shortly BTW, sorry.
[17:56] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: ok, can I talk with you about it later?
[17:57] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: that would be good. any time tomorrow is fine. i'm online from about 0800UTC
[17:58]  * wrtp always finds crypto auth errors to be a pain to diagnose.
[17:58] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: ok
[17:58] <wrtp> niemeyer: as you might guess, i'm actually testing the ssh tunnel stuff. not far now :-)
[18:00] <wrtp> "sshd: Failed publickey for rog from <IP_ADDRESS> port 45416 ssh2" ... but why has it failed?
[18:00] <wrtp> time to stop for the day. see y'all tomorrow.
[18:00] <wrtp> andrewsmedina: speak tomorrow, i hope
[18:00] <TheMue> niemeyer: So, changed watcher is in at https://codereview.appspot.com/6059044
[18:01] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: ok
[18:01] <andrewsmedina> wrtp: thanks
[18:07] <niemeyer> TheMue: Within that loop, I believe the eventType is a red-herring
[18:08] <TheMue> niemeyer: could you please explain?
[18:08] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sure
[18:08] <niemeyer> TheMue: We used to consider a removal as an error, so we stopped immediately with the event type hint
[18:08] <niemeyer> TheMue: Now that's not an error anymore
[18:09] <niemeyer> TheMue: so we don't really care about what is the *last* event that we got.
[18:09] <niemeyer> TheMue: We care about our ability to get the state *now*
[18:09] <niemeyer> TheMue: So you can drop the usage of that detail entirely, I believe, and have a cleaner algorithm with the same semantics
[18:11] <TheMue> niemeyer: it's a change after a hint of rog. he had a problem with my first approach always trying a GetW() first. his idea has been to skip it if we enter update() with a last EVENT_DELETED
[18:12] <TheMue> niemeyer: i've done without it before and it worked fine, so i can easily remove it
[18:13] <TheMue> niemeyer: i'll do so and check it in again. or shall i wait until your review?
[18:15] <niemeyer> TheMue: Hmm
[18:16] <niemeyer> TheMue: So the idea is to optimize it so that we try to get the current state right first..
[18:18] <niemeyer> TheMue: We can simplify it then..
[18:18] <niemeyer> TheMue: By moving the "exists bool" into the parameter
[18:19] <niemeyer> TheMue: This should get rid of most of the extra logic handling the event type
[18:19] <niemeyer> TheMue: We also don't need a watch variable, btw.. we already have one in scope called nextWatch
[18:23] <TheMue> niemeyer: ok, think I've got your ideas, will try it
[18:25] <niemeyer> TheMue: As a trivial, comments at lines 126 and 133 are replicating the code below them exactly
[18:26] <niemeyer> TheMue: That's pretty much it as far as the code is concerned.. it looks nice
[18:27] <niemeyer> TheMue: Will check the tests once you propose again
[18:27] <niemeyer> Don't expect anything surprising there..
[18:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: fine. and I just fetch an evening beer and can so continue now. *lol*
[18:33] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sounds like a good plan.. :)
[18:33] <TheMue> niemeyer: yeah
[18:34] <niemeyer> and I'm *almost* at the end of the pipeline
[18:35] <niemeyer> Or the graph, more precisely :)
[18:46] <TheMue> niemeyer: just put some code at the end of the pipeline *smile*
[18:53] <niemeyer> mthaddon: ping
[19:22] <TheMue> so, off for today
[20:38] <niemeyer> I'm taking a break..