 Issues with 20.10 so far: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g2zQ3dMCd8/
 Trying to file a bug against Kubuntu bluetooth mouse connection failure but none of the installed bluetooth module seem kubuntu specific: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZvbWWd3DMM/
 I don't understand how Ubuntu 20.10 can work fine but not Kubuntu 20.10 without something differentiating the KDE packages.  Booting back to Ubuntu 20.10 to compare the list... brb
 BT list from ubuntu 20.10: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QpDv3NRdqh/
[01:44] <IrcsomeBot1> * DarinMiller has trouble reading, sometimes.... comparing the Ubuntu vs Kbuntu lists I see that the qt/qml vs gnome differences.  Filing but now against qml-module-org-kde-bluezqt/groovy...
 BT scan bug filed: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=427526
 BT mouse is now working?!  Strange, possible intermittent behavior.  I closed the above case until I can determine are more repeatable failure.
[11:23] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:21] <santa_> hi everyone
[13:22] <santa_> Mamarok: hmm ... you had a problem with the keyboard?
[13:25] <Mamarok> still do, the NumPad doesn't work at all, it works with Windows, so not a hardwre issue
[13:25] <Mamarok> it's a Logitech MX keys
[13:25] <Mamarok> the same happened with the Cherry MX
[13:26] <Mamarok> I suspect a driver issue, even when selecting a Generic 105 keys model or any of the Logitech ones, no dice
[13:28] <Mamarok> this is an external keyboard to the laptop, connected with the universal USB plug, that does work out of the box with both the mouse and the keyboard, the Cherry is a USB model
[13:29] <Mamarok> one mention: it takes roughly 25-30 seconds until both mouse and keyboard are responsive on startup in the SDDM login screen
[13:31] <Mamarok> IIRC the current driver is evdev, right?
[13:31] <Mamarok> or is it libinput?
[13:45] <santa_> I don't know, nevermind it's just that I hit this thing https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=164820
[13:47] <santa_> Mamarok: another thing I noticed is that I got some extra stuff installed automatically, which shouldn't be there afaik (ibus)
[13:47] <santa_> that's because ibus-data had a "Recommends: ibus", but that was fixes
[13:48] <santa_> so you might want to remove ibus and do "apt autoremove" but I doubt that's going to solve your problem
[13:49] <santa_> s/fixes/fixed/
[13:49] <Mamarok> let me check...
[13:50] <santa_> btw RikMills and everyone else: I finished this morning the last KDE Frameworks 5.75 so it should be ready to test in the staging PPA
[13:51] <Mamarok> no ibus here, other than ibus-data
[13:55] <Mamarok> hm, I have both libinput and evdev installed, maybe there is a driver conflict...
[13:55] <BluesKaj> Mamarok, no ibus panel in your system tray?
[13:57] <Mamarok> how does that look?
[13:58] <BluesKaj> there might be an icon there, or in the system tray list
[13:59] <Mamarok> apparently not
[13:59] <BluesKaj> ok
[14:00] <Mamarok> what is this supposed to do?
[14:03] <Mamarok> This is not the keyboard layout switcher, isn't it?
[14:03] <Mamarok> which I need daily
[14:03] <BluesKaj> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus
[14:04] <Mamarok> well, I don't use any Asian language that apparently needs it
[14:04] <BluesKaj> don't think i really need it anyway
[14:06] <Mamarok> can I remove evdev without braking something? I suspect a driver conflict
[14:07] <Mamarok> I have libinput, kbd and evdev installed, libinput is apparently default
[14:13] <BluesKaj> yeah same on my laptop
[14:17] <BluesKaj> i have an outboard mouse for the laptop which works fine, but no outboard KB
[14:19] <BluesKaj> not a touch pad user....can't seem to get the touchpad to work for me due to my stiff fingers
[14:19] <BluesKaj> touch of arthritis doesn'thelp
[14:23] <Mamarok> ditto, I am a mouse person
[14:28] <BluesKaj> right
[14:32] <RikMills> santa_: thanks
[14:57] <santa_> RikMills: I have another pending things, for instance KA 2.3: I think I'm going to release 2.3 this afternon (finally!) do you have any urgent issue to be fixed? note that we can, of course, have 2.3.x point releases for easy low-risk bugfixes
 don't think so
[20:38] <valorie> Mamarok: I'm also having problems with sound and my cam in 20.10
[20:38] <valorie> the beta at first was fine, but now th cam is not detected and just doesn't turn on
[20:39] <valorie> my usb headset works, but plugging and unplugging it is undetected, which is v. strange
[20:39] <valorie> I can control it in pavu but cam isn't seen except by lsusb
[20:40] <valorie> and another weirdness: screen brightness can no longer be controlled
[20:41] <valorie> and the alt+f5/f6 for volume control no longer work either, but the little popup showing "change" still pops up!
[20:41] <valorie> I will file bug reports but have no clue against *what*
[20:42] <valorie> I got @DarinMiller 's bug about "sleep" which somehow got turned in in systemsettings -- and caused me to have to quit via the power button
[20:43] <valorie> my son thinks that is an nvidia driver bug
[20:46] <Mamarok> I don't have a NVIDIA card and wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole
[20:46] <Mamarok> looking forward to the new laptop that should arrive sometime next week


[06:54] <vila> hi all
[08:30] <mgz> morning
[14:34] <Xtreme> guys, little help needed..
[14:34] <Xtreme> well, now my php project is in /home/user/www
[14:34] <Xtreme> so i went to www, and did bzr init
[14:34] <Xtreme> then bzr add and then commit
[14:35] <Xtreme> now if i change any file in it, how to track the changes? and how to keep it as different versions?
[14:36] <Xtreme> any one?
[14:53] <jpds> Xtreme: Do: bzr commit --show-diff
[14:53] <jpds> Xtreme: After making a change.
[14:53] <Xtreme> jpds:  and how to roll back?
[14:53] <Xtreme> go to previous status
[14:54] <jpds> Xtreme: bzr uncommit; bzr revert --no-backup
[14:59] <mgz> really you want to seperate your deployment from your development, but it's not too important for small things
[15:00] <Xtreme> okay so say i have a index.php
[15:00] <Xtreme> i did some coding and it working file
[15:00] <Xtreme> so i add and commit it
[15:00] <Xtreme> then say, i fucked up some thing and it got screwed
[15:01] <Xtreme> so if i do bzr uncommit, will i get index.php be replaced with working index.php?
[15:01] <jpds> Xtreme: Yes.
[15:02] <jpds> Xtreme: You should really read: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.5/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[16:04] <jono> hey
[16:04] <jono> I have a 9 hour old bzr loc
[16:04] <jono> lock
[16:04] <jono> bzr break-lock isnt working
[16:04] <jono> any idea how I fix this?
[16:06] <jono> ignore me, fixed it :-)
[16:06] <jono> thanks!
[18:26] <maxb> jelmer: Hi. There's a compilation error in subvertpy trunk's C code. Use of -> where . is intended (left operand is a struct, not a pointer to a struct)
[18:36] <jelmer> maxb: fixed, thanks
[18:36] <maxb> thanks :-)
[21:20] <thomi> Question: Is there a way to move files from repo A -> repo B and keep their revision history?
[21:20] <thomi> I'm guessing not - but maybe there's a workaround? I'm moving code from one project to another, and I'd like to keep the history.
[21:27] <fullermd> Not really.  In concept you could created a similar looking history for them and bring that into the new branch, but...
[21:27] <fullermd> Files don't have history; history has files.
[23:28] <jimis> On one PC I have made a no-trees branch of an lp:project, and have been working on it locally for some time
[23:28] <jimis> What's the best way to move *everything* on to another PC?
[23:29] <jimis> Oh, I've been working on it with local checkouts on a separate dir
[23:30] <jimis> I'm afraid I'll lose stuff (like shelves) if I just move the notrees repository and recreate a new local checkout
[23:35] <fullermd> I don't think there's any way to push shelves around.
[23:36] <jimis> fullermd: are they stored in the checkout dir and not in the no-trees repo?
[23:37] <fullermd> Yes, they're a property of the WT.
[23:37] <jimis> bummer :-)
[23:37] <jimis> fullermd: anything else I may lose?  (besides uncommitted changes that is...)
[23:38] <fullermd> Everything committed would be in the branch/repo.
[23:38] <fullermd> Revs, tags, signatures...
[23:38] <jimis> alright, so I'll tar this up and only lose shelves
[23:38] <jimis> thanks for helping
[23:40] <fullermd> You could always make a temp branch and commit your shelves into it.
[23:41] <jimis> fullermd: I'd have to resolve many conflicts as each shelve was created a a different point in history
[23:41] <jimis> fullermd: any ideas how I can get the shelves in diff format?
[23:42] <fullermd> unshelve --preview?
[23:43] <jimis> (btw, until today I thought that shelves were implemented as special light branches...)
[23:43] <fullermd> Pretty sure shelved changed know what their basis revision was.  Not sure that's exposed anywhere...
[23:44] <fullermd> No, they're really more a transient thing than that.  I can't remember the last time I had anything shelved for more than 5 or 10 minutes.
[23:45] <jimis> :-(
[23:46] <jimis> this should be really pointed loudly, since it's unexpected to actually lose data like that in a distributed system
[23:46] <jimis> I use them all the time for backing off changes and switching to other branches
[23:47] <jimis> (I use a single-dir checkout workflow)
[23:47] <jimis> fullermd: I'm curious, what's your workflow?
[23:48] <fullermd> Nothing particularly exciting.  I mostly have branch/WT coincident.
[23:49] <fullermd> Using shelves to back off and "whoops, I probably wanted to make that change in this other branch" is probably fairly common (though often unnecessary since switch will merge over uncommitted stuff)
[23:50] <fullermd> But "let me stick this stuff I don't want to lose on the shelf for a couple weeks" is a bit unexpected.
[23:50] <jimis> fullermd: WT?
[23:51] <fullermd> Working Tree.
[23:52] <jimis> btw, the "bzr switch" silent merging was a major headache for me at first
[23:53] <jimis> my instict was telling me that uncommitted changes would stay as uncommitted on the same branch for commiting when coming back
[23:53] <fullermd> Interesting.  I'd reflexively assume just the opposite.
[23:56] <jimis> that would be an extra merge for me :-)


[04:28] <ubot5`> lotuspsychje called the ops in #ubuntu-discuss ()
[04:44] <Eickmeyer> krytarik: You around?
[04:45] <krytarik> Yeah.
[04:46] <Eickmeyer> Need the ban hammer thrown in #ubuntu-discuss, krytarik.
[04:46] <krytarik> Well, I don't have access there.
[04:47] <Eickmeyer> Hmmm... that's not good.
[04:47] <Eickmeyer> Got a troll in there throwing obscenities and flooding.
[04:47] <Eickmeyer> Calmed down for now.
[04:48] <krytarik> Yeah, I know.  As per your Ubuntu member cloak, you got ops there yourself though.
[05:01] <Eickmeyer> Oh. Didn't know that.


[00:00] <mbana> i really want to fix the font hinting in TB 3
[00:25] <mbana> no one around to commment?
[00:27] <BUGabundo> seems not
[02:15] <maxinux61> Does anyone know if there is a PPA for Thunderbird 3
[02:19] <micahg> maxinux61: I have the last build in my PPa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/+archive/mozilla-test/
[02:19] <micahg> it's still labeled shredder though
[02:19] <micahg> maxinux61: oops, wrong PPA
[02:20] <micahg> maxinux61: https://edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/+archive/mozilla-beta
[02:25] <maxinux61> micahg: Many thanks!
[03:03] <maxinux61> Micahg: How stable is the Firefox 3.6 in your PPA?
[03:04] <micahg> maxinux61: the one in the -beta PPA is FIrefox 3.6 Beta 5, I use it
[03:04] <maxinux61> Cool, I will give it a try. Thanks again.
[03:04] <micahg> I find it faster than 3.5 with almost no problems
[03:05] <maxinux61> Great. I have Thunderbird installed and running. It is great.
[11:13] <gnomefreak> i think i like this :)
[11:18] <gnomefreak> ok i like just some things need to be conversation
[11:19] <asac> hi gnomefreak
[11:19] <gnomefreak> asac: hi
[11:19] <asac> what do you like?
[11:19] <gnomefreak> lubuntu
[11:19] <asac> ah
[11:19] <asac> intersting
[11:20] <gnomefreak> brb there is another desktop (i think came with it)
[11:32] <fta> hi
[11:32] <fta> asac, you can copy the codecs now
[11:37] <asac> fta: already done
[11:37] <asac> they are already built
[11:37] <asac> chromium is now building
[11:37] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/nss3.12.3/+packages
[11:37] <asac> fta: codecs might need some love for sparc/ppc/ia64
[11:49] <fta> asac, well, chromium should be 1st, but it will be tough. i'm not candidate, i don't have access to those arches
[12:01] <gnomefreak> when i go to install something in debian chroot i get the following
[12:01] <gnomefreak> dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting: syntax error: unknown group 'Debian-exim' in statoverride file
[12:01] <gnomefreak> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
[12:01] <gnomefreak> how do i fix that. only debian chrrots give me that
[12:01] <asac> add a Debian-exim group?
[12:01] <asac> feels wrong though
[12:03] <gnomefreak> well that is kind of bad if i have to do that
[12:04] <gnomefreak> how do i add someone to a group on terminal. it cant hurt to try i guess
[12:12] <asac> gnomefreak: is that lucid?
[12:12] <asac> try setup karmic chroot and dist-upgrade to lucid then
[12:16] <gnomefreak> asac: the chroot is sid
[12:16] <gnomefreak> also happens on lenny. no ubuntu chroots have that issue
[12:16] <asac> hmm
[12:16] <asac> not sure
[12:17] <asac> havent installed it for ages ;)
[12:17] <asac> maybe debian is now using cdebootstrap by default?
[12:18] <gnomefreak> not sure maybe i will remove then and just have lucid and karmic chroots
[12:32] <fta> asac, were you able to debug your oh-snap on arm?
[12:32] <asac> fta: no.
[12:32] <asac> trashed stack
[12:32] <asac> infinite recursion in libc abort
[12:32] <asac> thats the only thing i could see
[12:32] <fta> doh
[12:32] <asac> but i am building latest upstream. afaik they
[12:33] <asac> landed arm stuff now again
[12:33] <asac> so i hope it just disappears
[12:33] <asac> otherwise have to check with doko how to tell the linker to actually dump the symbol that is "virtual" only
[12:33] <asac> so yeah. for now its a "pure virtual method called" ...
[12:33] <asac> which means that there is a C++ abstract virtual class that is not fully implemented for arm
[12:34] <asac> ether because a file is not compiled/linked in
[12:34] <asac> or its just not implemented
[12:34] <asac> i guess the former
[12:35] <asac> ... or we dont build everything
[12:35] <asac> which i hope isnt the case
[12:35] <asac> though to be sure i would need to build using upstream instructions i guess
[12:35] <asac> will try that once i get my USB disc working again on arm/ lucid
[12:35] <asac> atm its brokenish
[12:36] <asac> e.g. working on SD drives only ;)
[12:36] <fta> did you try in --single-process mode?
[12:38] <asac> yes
[12:38] <asac> same backgtrace
[12:38] <asac> inifite abort
[12:38] <asac> just crashing right away
[12:42] <fta> try to build in Debug mode then
[12:46] <asac> yeah
[12:52] <fta> updated http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome
[12:53] <fta> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumPackages is starting to grow nicely
[12:55] <asac> "New releases are tested before sending to users"
[12:59] <fta> where?
[13:00] <fta> i can't say that for us as i publish directly in the ppa, so even if i make no announcement, it's available to anyone upgrading
[13:18] <fta> asac, fedora packaged gclient separately
[13:18] <fta> i didn't
[13:19] <fta> they're tracking v8 2.0.*
[13:19] <fta> and doing a shared build of chromium
[13:19] <fta> without ffmpeg
[13:39] <sindhudweep> asac: can you review (and merge if it meets your approval) https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gnash/gnash/ubuntu.head/+merge/15590 when it is convenient?
[14:12] <asac> sindhudweep: this enables the kde4 backend again?
[14:13] <asac> or just enables it explicitly?
[14:13] <asac> is kdelibs5-dev the right thing to include for qt/kde stuff?
[14:13] <asac> isnt it something like xlibs-dev thats only their for developers
[14:14] <asac> but should be done more fine grained for packages (sorry, not up-to-date on kde packaging best practices)
[14:14] <asac> is kde4-gnash the only binary shipped/needed for that?
[15:07] <sindhudweep> asac: all good questions. I will look into each of those and get back to you with either fixes or a rationale for the points you made.
[15:07] <sindhudweep> thanks again.
[15:11] <mbana> asac: hello ...
[15:11] <mbana> do i need to restart TB 3 to see .fonts.conf changes
[15:17] <asac> mbana: yes
[15:19] <mbana> asac: please fonts your .confs online
[15:20] <asac> mine is zero
[15:21] <asac> nada
[15:21] <asac> non-existing
[15:21] <asac> only default system font configs
[15:21]  * asac lunch
[16:12] <debfx> asac: could you please review my changes for the firefox kde integration? (bug #494067)
[16:46] <asac> debfx: we need per-bug-per-attachment patches
[16:46] <asac> (upstream bug id + attachment id)
[16:47] <debfx> asac: the patches aren't on the mozilla bugtracker
[16:48] <asac> where are they?
[16:50] <debfx> http://gitorious.org/firefox-kde-opensuse/
[16:53] <debfx> though I had to modify the patch a bit as opensuse based it on a patched xulrunner (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327323)
[16:53] <asac> debfx: then bnc patches?
[16:55] <debfx> asac: bnc?
[16:56] <mbana> asac: there's a bug if the rendering of TB 3 and FF 3.5 differ right?
[16:59] <asac> mbana: depends
[16:59] <asac> if both use system-cairo etc. then yes
[17:00] <asac> if one uses systme-cairo and the other in-source cairo ... its most likely because of that
[17:00] <asac> debfx: bnc ... like mentioned in gitoroius commits
[17:00] <asac> Use the mimetype for opening urls when known (bnc#556156)
[17:01] <asac> not sure if they have individual bugs
[17:01] <asac> in any case. can you check with the kde dev that does that?
[17:01] <asac> we need to get the patches at least in bugzilla
[17:07] <micahg> asac: regarding TB3, I targeted all the bugs I could find, so that I can make the changelog, but no result from the TB devs yet on which files I need for the -dev package
[17:08] <debfx> you want the kde dev to upload the patches to bugzilla?
[17:21] <asac> micahg: ok.
[17:21] <asac> _Tsk_: we have a problem with tb3 ... we need to provide a -dev package with the headers etc.
[17:21] <asac> howver, make install doesnt install that
[17:22] <micahg> asac: I tried copying the files we use in the TB2 package with no success
[17:22] <asac> not sure how to best do it. most likely we want the full sdk copyied
[17:22] <asac> micahg: upstream build system needs to be fixed to also install the sdk
[17:22] <micahg> ah, ok
[17:23] <micahg> I think you mentioned that before
[17:24] <mbana> asac: does TB 3 use the it's own cairo?
[17:24] <mbana> from the ppa
[17:25] <micahg> mbana: 3.0 uses system cairo on karmic and higher
[17:25] <mbana> so that probably explains it.  the TB 3 from mozilla and from the ppa render the same
[17:26] <mbana> no anti-aliasing
[17:26] <mbana> i'm using jaunty
[17:26] <micahg> yep, that sounds right :)
[17:27] <micahg> asac: I should probably file a bug on b.m.o for the SDK to be installed
[17:28] <asac> mbana: for non-system-cairo fonts are worse
[17:28] <asac> you should use karmic
[17:28] <asac> tb3 wont be for jaunty anyway
[17:29] <mbana> ah man!  that's a complete pain.  i hate updating
[17:29] <mbana> is there no workaround?
[17:30] <asac> not that i know.
[17:31] <asac> micahg: yes.
[17:32] <asac> ok out
[17:32] <asac> bbi 2h
[17:36] <micahg> asac: mozilla bug 534651
[17:40] <asac> thx
[17:41] <mbana> how about backports?  installing a newer ver. onto an old distro
[17:42] <asac> thats bad
[17:42] <asac> you need a new gtk + cairo
[17:42] <asac> might cause issues for other apps
[17:44] <_Tsk_> asac:  how do you usualy build it for ff ?
[17:44] <asac> _Tsk_: ffox does not have specific headers, we use xulrunner
[17:45] <asac> thats what is providing the sdk
[17:45] <asac> i am not sure if firefox standalong would do the right thing on make install
[17:45] <asac> but i would hope yes.
[17:45] <_Tsk_> ppl in #maildev will be on the spot better than I will
[17:45] <asac> though might be its only happening for xulrunner build
[17:45] <asac> yes. out though ;)
[17:45]  * asac bounces back and froth from action to computer atm
[17:45] <asac> i will check in maildev when i return
[17:46]  * asac out 100%
[17:47] <mbana> when is hte next ubuntu LTS release?
[17:49] <asac> this
[17:50] <asac> release
[17:50]  * asac out 110%
[17:50] <asac> ;)
[17:50] <micahg> mbana: Lucid in April
[17:50]  * micahg will bbiab
[17:51] <mbana> why didn't it occur to build TB 3 with system cairo on <karmic
[17:53] <mbana> i found this https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=458612
[17:54] <mbana>  (Ubuntu) system fontconfig settings override GNOME font rendering screen settings
[18:00] <mbana> ok too risky to update
[18:00] <mbana> thanks for the help tho
[18:09] <mbana> wish me luck
[18:09] <mbana> i'll upgrade
[19:33] <fta> lol, http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6fd4bb500d425c406c1b52f66e5b195b20ae5e0a
[19:39] <Mook_sb> yeah, they're using chromium for IPC for out-of-process stuff
[19:45] <fta> chromium also uses some parts of moz, like libnss and a subset of the testsuite
[20:52] <mbana> asac: ok i've upgraded :).  biggest problem, not that i'm expecting you fix it, the cursor is constantly showing the busy
[20:52] <mbana> even tho nothing is running in the back.
[20:52] <mbana> anyhow,
[20:52] <mbana> about TB 3.0
[21:45] <jdstrand> asac, fta: so, I need to get the apparmor stuff into firefox-3.6 for karmic. what is the best way to do that, and how do I ensure that 3.7, 3.8, etc have these changes moving forward?
[21:45] <jdstrand> asac, fta: hi btw!
[21:46] <jdstrand> I'm working in lp:firefox/3.6 right now for lucid
[21:46] <jdstrand> once I have that tested, I'll commit and then want to get that work into the future 3.6 branch for karmic
[21:48] <micahg> jdstrand: karmic is 3.5 right now
[21:49] <jdstrand> micahg: I'm aware of that, but 3.5 is EOLd soon and I need to make sure that 3.6 will have the profile
[21:50] <micahg> jdstrand: I think all that stuff is moved at release time for the branch
[21:50] <fta> jdstrand, when 3.8 will appear, we'll branch 3.7, so if it's in 3.7, we'll get it. but once it's branched, each update will have to be done in all branches :(
[21:50]  * jdstrand makes notes to get at least something into 3.8...
[21:50] <jdstrand> s/notes/note
[21:51] <jdstrand> fta: do you have an eta on 3.8?
[21:51] <micahg> jdstrand: yeah, it looks like the apparmor/.desktop translation is only on 3.5 right now
[21:52] <jdstrand> fta: once I test things, I'll get it all into 3.7 and 3.6
[21:52] <jdstrand> is this where all the branches I should care about live? https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam
[21:53] <fta> if it's generic enough, it could be done with a cherry pick..
[21:53] <fta> yes, all the .head branches
[21:53] <jdstrand> gotcha
[21:53] <jdstrand> fta: I am making it generic, yes
[21:53] <fta> good
[21:54] <fta> i like it when it's generic
[21:54] <jdstrand> APPNAME ftw
[21:54] <jdstrand> :)
[21:54] <fta> yep :)
[21:54] <micahg> fta: I think we should keep the stuff like profiles only in the current release branch so they don't have to be updated constantly
[21:54] <jdstrand> I'm not sure that is wise
[21:55] <fta> micahg, apparmor should be everywhere
[21:55] <micahg> fta: ok, so then on the branches, it'll be usr.bin.firefox-3.6?
[21:55] <micahg> etc..
[21:56] <jdstrand> fta: so based on this, if I get my changes into 3.6.head then when you branch that for when 3.5 is EOLd, it should just be there?
[21:56] <fta> yes, some subst could help, like for APPNAME
[21:56] <fta> eh?
[21:57] <jdstrand> fyi, the packaging for the profile is usr.bin.firefox.apparmor.in
[21:57] <fta> yes, once 3.6 gets released, it will be branched from 3.6.head so it wil have apparmor too
[21:57] <jdstrand> it is generic too
[21:57] <jdstrand> excellent
[21:58] <jdstrand> fta: can you point me in the right direction for getting the source to build 3.6 on lucid (or karmic, I don't care)?
[21:59] <fta> the daily ppa is the best we have, you just have to update changelog with the version currently in the daily ppa
[21:59] <fta> update changelog.. in 3.6.head
[21:59] <jdstrand> sure, that was my thoughts too
[22:00] <jdstrand> well, I'm not comitting anything to 3.6 just yet ;)
[22:00] <jdstrand> fta: thanks for all your help!
[22:00] <fta> thank *you* for improving our security :)
[22:01] <jdstrand> :)
[22:02] <micahg> jdstrand: is the FF profile going to be enabled by default in Lucid?
[22:03] <jdstrand> micahg: the plan is to turn it on be default during the dev cycle, then decide afterwards
[22:03] <jdstrand> micahg: a few things need to happen first though
[22:04] <jdstrand> mostly so people have some idea of why things aren't working if they get a denial
[22:16] <BUGabundo> guys sorry for the spam but ben laughing so hard with this site, I had to share http://akinator.com/
[22:18] <mbana> BUGabundo: hello
[22:18] <BUGabundo> hey mbana
[22:29] <fta> BUGabundo, I won once
[22:29] <BUGabundo> LOL
[22:29] <BUGabundo> just once?
[22:29] <BUGabundo> how many did you lose?
[22:31] <fta> 5
[22:32] <BUGabundo> ehehe
[22:32] <BUGabundo> who did it misss?
[22:39] <mbana> BUGabundo: so you said, if i don't make TB copy the email i sent into my gmail folder, it'll show it in the thread when i'm browsing in both gmail and TB?
[22:40] <BUGabundo> its supposed to, yes
[22:43] <fta> BUGabundo, it's easy to do, it's just an expert system
[22:45] <BUGabundo> true
[22:45] <BUGabundo> but very complete
[22:52] <mbana> BUGabundo: mmmmm ... it works :) thanks
[22:54] <BUGabundo> I know it does :=)
[23:04] <mbana> BUGabundo: how do you handle deleting?
[23:04] <BUGabundo> move to trash
[23:05] <BUGabundo> anything else and it will archive them
[23:05] <BUGabundo> and by trash I mean the TRUE gmail trash folder
[23:05] <BUGabundo> not one faked by TB
[23:17] <mbana> BUGabundo: do you mean "move it to the deleted folder"?
[23:19] <BUGabundo> no
[23:19] <BUGabundo> to Trash folder
[23:20] <mbana> is that a TB 3 specific settings?
[23:21] <BUGabundo> no
[23:21] <BUGabundo> its a gmail imap folder
[23:25] <mbana> it's gets labelled something like [iamp/trash] ... right?
[23:26] <BUGabundo> no
[23:26] <mbana> is this a bug; 1.  delete the email in thunderbird.   2.  go into gmail and remove the [imap/trash] label.  3.  it appears in the inbox now in gmail.  4.  go to TB, it's no longer in the thread
[23:26] <BUGabundo> that's a Fake foldr
[23:26] <BUGabundo> at least on TB2
[23:27] <mbana> ok it seems like it's only available on tb 3
[23:53] <mbana> few more questions ;)
[23:53] <mbana> is it possible to get rid of the -- before the signature
[23:55] <BUGabundo> why would you ?
[23:55] <BUGabundo> that's what makes a sig a sig
[23:55] <BUGabundo> its the beginning of a sig
[23:55] <BUGabundo> dash dash space


 The installation hangs and virtualox take 100% of cpu.
[15:18] <nicolab80> Any idea? There useful log file that I can use to fill a bug report?
[16:15] <bip> anybody around using vmware-server ?
[16:19] <nicolab80> bip: yes
[16:20] <nicolab80> but not with ubuntu
[16:20] <nicolab80> do you need help?
[16:35] <bip> fixed it
[16:35] <bip> after googling
[16:35] <bip> the 64bit version has a PAM bug
[16:36] <\sh> hmm?
[16:37] <\sh> vmware-server has a 64bit version?
[16:37] <\sh> (I mean not running 64bit os guests)
[16:37] <\sh> the whole crap is mostly i386 code ;)
[16:38] <bip> it has
[16:38] <bip> i m running it right now
[16:39] <bip> on a quad core xeonn server
[16:39] <\sh> bip, yes..with a whole lot of i386 packages on amd64 ;)
[16:39] <bip> well ...
[16:39] <bip> i just need it as virtualization host
[16:39] <\sh> bip, if you can afford a quad...why bother with vmware-server and not directly go to esx? it's much better in resource management
[16:40] <bip> well
[16:40] <bip> because i broke the piggy bank to buy the server
[16:40] <bip> and now i dont have any pig left tto buy a esx licence
[16:41] <\sh> hehe
[16:44] <gcleric> bip: on a lighter note you can port vm's created on the free vmware-server to esx using the free vmware converter.
[16:44] <gcleric> at a later date...
[16:45] <bip> i know i wont throw away when i will find the piggies gcleric ;-)
[16:45] <bip> i have been using vmware since workstation 2 o 3
[16:45] <bip> I have forgot when exactly ;-)
[16:47] <gcleric> if an when you do go esx budget for 2 to 3 server lic.  load balancing resources with DRS clustering is a must.
[16:47] <gcleric> ...and shared storage too.. =)
[16:47] <\sh> shared storage...
[16:48] <\sh> hp bl35c center + netapp == platin
[16:48] <bip> i know i was doin some readin about SAN
[16:48] <bip> and blade servers
[16:49] <gcleric> yup... a NFS, iSCSI, FCP storage that can be shared between the ESX servers...where the VM's will be stored.
[16:49] <bip> i wonder if my next empoyer will buy me trhat stuff
[16:49] <bip> right now
[16:49] <\sh> for only some 2 or 3 servers, some up2date raid 5/6 sata storage boxes with iscsi on board can be enough for the first step
[16:49] <bip> i have to uuse 2 dell 1800 with dual xeon for lan and dmz server
[16:49] <bip> but we r a low traffic network
[16:50] <bip> more a testing network then a real network
[16:50] <\sh> gig ethernet doesn't cost the world anymore
[16:50] <gcleric> for the vmware esx cluster you only need servers that have the same cpu family.
[16:50] <bip> so  I mnot sure we really need the big miscle required to run virtualized srvers
[16:50] <bip> gig nics will be bought
[16:51] <bip> what i highly doubt is getting shared storage soon
[16:51] <\sh> bip, believe me, when you run several vmware-server guests, and your systime on the guests is running out of sync ... then it's time, really
[16:51] <bip> u mean time out of sync is  a i/o issue ?
[16:52] <bip> well as I said no one of my guest boxes is really under heavy usage ...
[16:52] <\sh> you never tried to run an oracle db server under sles9 on vmware-server  ;)
[16:52] <bip> i have to balance a bit between hardware resouces my boss wont buy and the sort of network I need to run
[16:53] <bip> no
[16:53] <bip> and I don t plan to
[16:53] <bip> i have a few mysql server backing web apps
[16:53] <bip> but hey mu network serves 16 users
[16:54] <bip> so I don t think there is much justification for overspending on hardware
[16:54] <gcleric> bip you can build an esx -- sort -of -- using the free version vmware-server 3 servers.
[16:54] <bip> we have 3 vmware server already running
[16:54] <gcleric> one server as a shared storage via NFS.
[16:54] <bip> one is hosts our lan boxes
[16:54] <bip> the other one ha the dmz machines
[16:54] <gcleric> two servers running vmware-server mounting the vm's via the NFS share.
[16:55] <bip> then w e have an old crappy pc for testing
[16:57] <gcleric> the shared storage PC dose not need to be beefy....just a lot of storage and a good nic or two...GigE.
[16:58] <bip> i know i have been thinkin about settin up some sort of home made NAS
[16:58] <gcleric> bip that would do...
[16:58] <bip> do u think that one of those contemporary mobo with 6 sata slots will be enuff for runnin about ten low usage vms ?
[16:59] <bip> i mean 6 disks maybe setup as riad 5
[16:59] <bip> raid 5
[16:59] <bip> sata 2 disks ?
[16:59] <gcleric> what flavor of raid?
[16:59] <bip> raid 5 i think
[16:59] <gcleric> ya...
[16:59] <bip> to optimize storage
[16:59] <\sh> 16 500g sata drives, a fast raid controller which can support 16 sata channels...(e.g. areca or whatever) and push some openisci linux on it..voila best storage ever...cheap
[16:59] <bip> i could prolly do 10
[16:59] <bip> they wont buy me those toys \sh sorry
[17:00] <bip> i have to survive with what i can scrap
[17:00] <\sh> bip, http://www.ccsstore.de/shop/article_IServ000001/Industrie-Server-2x-AMD-Opteron-2,2-GHZ,-3HE,-16x-500GB-HDD.html?shop_param=cid%3D49%26aid%3DIServ000001%26
[17:00] <\sh> sorry only german
[17:00] <gcleric> raid 5 should work  using something like freeNAS.
[17:01] <bip> yeah my colleague will love that
[17:01] <bip> even if it appears like developent on freenas has stopped
[17:02] <gcleric> the vmware-server front end servers will not require much storage locally if you have a shared storage backend that the front end servers mount the storage from.
[17:02] <gcleric> also if one of the frontend servers dies you can remount the vm's on the remaining running server.
[17:03] <bip> \sh, I ahve an idea u go an ask my boss for Preis EUR 2.796,50
[17:03] <bip> if i says yes ...
[17:03] <bip> I come in too ;-)
[17:04] <bip> I know the theory gcleric , just money is the issue
[17:04] <gcleric> sorry...I'll shut now...
[17:04] <bip> it s ok
[17:05] <\sh> bip, check this out: http://www.presseportal.de/pm/60208/866278/combots_ag/ <- my former DC :)
[17:05] <bip> maybe my next employer will be less cheap ;-)
[17:05] <\sh> 638 of those servers you could buy there...16x 638 500GB Sata Drives :) a lot of storage..
[17:07] <bip> listen I backup only the bare minimum because they wont give more the 2 36GB dat tapes for week
[17:08] <bip> our work is saved on a raid file server rsynced every hour to an othere raid server, while I hope the y dont break ;-)
[17:10] <gcleric> I would get an email from your bosses stating why they won't covert the butts in the event of disaster... to cover you butt.
[17:10] <bip> my butt and the whole company seem to be pretty gone
[17:11] <bip> last monday a colleague told me that the company will be sold or go belly up ...
[17:11] <bip> :(
[17:13] <\sh> sysadmins are always to blame if something goes wrong
[17:13] <bip> right now I mworking on my home server, just to keep my skills sharp since sounds like I gonna be job hunting pretty soon
[17:13] <bip> we r always to blame
[17:13] <bip> so i sorta ignore em until they start kickin me ;-)
[17:14] <\sh> "You were at fault..that's why our company lost and died" "But Boss, you didn't give me the money to buy...." "Don't come with this money shit..." "But..."  I was more talking about receiving
[17:40] <freeflying> \sh: some dynamic dns provider may make it work
[17:40] <bip> u mean it is not the same with every dynamic dns provider freeflying ?
[17:40] <freeflying> bip: maybe
[17:47] <\sh> freeflying, how, when you directly send out your mails from your own server on a dsl line with dynamic ip? you need a relay
[17:48] <freeflying> \sh: they will provider ur dns resolve
[17:50] <\sh> freeflying, resolving is not the problem...most likely they make a reverse lookup (in-addr.arpa lookup) and they you are stuck
[17:50] <bip> well the reversse lookup is screwed with loto of staic ip too
[17:51] <bip> but they might blacklist known dynamic ip ranges
[17:51] <bip> we discovered this yesterday one reverse lookup resolves to our isp name
[17:52] <bip> even if we own a block of 8 public ip
[18:11] <stiv2k> anyone here good at configuring sendmail?  Hotmail denies all the emails I send to them from my server....
[18:11] <bip> are u using dynamic ip stiv2k ?
[18:12] <stiv2k> bip: no
[18:12] <bip> or your ip reverse lookup doesnt resolve to your ip for some reason stiv2k ?
[18:12] <stiv2k> bip: its hosted on a dedicated server
[18:12] <stiv2k> bip: its at rickb.net
[18:12] <stiv2k> you can test the DNS for yourself
[18:13] <bip> oh well ...
[18:13] <stiv2k> i can send email to anywhre but hotmail
[18:13] <bip> i can
[18:13] <bip> ok
[18:14] <stiv2k> it says this
[18:14] <stiv2k> May 24 12:53:15 x2 sendmail[30557]: m4OGrDRT030557<EMAIL_ADDRESS>ctladdr=apache (48/48), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=relay, pri=32716, relay=[<IP_ADDRESS>] [<IP_ADDRESS>], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (m4OGrDfv030558 Message accepted for delivery)
[18:14] <stiv2k> May 24 12:53:16 x2 sendmail[30560]: m4OGrDfv030558<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>(48/48), delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=122929, relay=mx3.hotmail.com. [<IP_ADDRESS>], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Queued mail for delivery)
[18:19] <stickystyle> anyone know off the top of there heads what version of debian Dapper pulled its upstream packages from?
[18:19] <stiv2k> any ideas?
[18:20] <Deeps> whatever was testing at the time, i'd guess
[18:21] <Deeps> lenny
[18:22] <Deeps> no, i lie
[18:22] <Deeps> at a guess, was etch when it was in testing
[18:22] <stickystyle> yeah, looking at the timeline now..looks like it would have been etch.
[19:24] <emgent> hello
[20:07] <TechieDragon> I have a script issue that I can't seem to resolve.  The line that seems to be at issue is ls -l %1.  If I pass in no params it works fine.  If I pass in z* I get one file listed.  If I pass in 'z*' I get all the files starting with z - any ideas?
[20:14] <Deeps> yes, the * is being evaulated by your shell
[20:14] <Deeps> pass '*' or \*
[20:14] <Deeps> to avoid it happening
[20:14] <Deeps> maybe
[20:20] <TechieDragon1> Ok.. lost my connection
[22:31]  * flyback going outside for a bit, bbl


[00:13] <jtechidna> Riddell or apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55817/
[00:13] <jtechidna> or ScottK^
[00:16] <Riddell> jtechidna: onto it
[00:17] <Riddell> jtechidna: there it goes!
[00:18] <jtechidna> kewl
[00:18] <Riddell> seele: did your upgrade go ok?
[00:43] <ryanakca> Riddell: I talked some of the kdegames people, and their opinion seems to be that we should ship the non-scaling deck as default, because if we change it, we're not shipping the ``real'' kdegames, rather, something that looks like it. So I guess we should just patch the rc files in k-d-s?
[00:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: patch it to do what?
[00:54] <jtechidna> Riddell: to use the scalable deck, I presume
[00:55] <ryanakca> Riddell: to use an SVG deck so that the cards scale
[00:55] <ryanakca> or should we just stick to the default and forget about it?
[00:55] <Riddell> but you just said they object to use doing that
[00:56]  * ryanakca nods
[00:56] <Riddell> if it's better and they don't have any actual complaints about it then we should indeed change it :)
[00:56] <ryanakca> hehe, *nod*. That's why they provide configuration files, isn't it?  It seems some things changed so the install files need tweaking.
[01:11] <jtechidna> rgreening: that happens a lot every alpha release, heh
[01:11] <rgreening> :)
[01:12] <rgreening> it seems karbon had some changes
[01:12] <rgreening> i have to say, I really like pbuilder and pbuilder-hooks... I must thank apachelogger for shoving me in that direction.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> pbuilder hooks rock!
[01:13] <rgreening> yeah. I can see why
[01:41] <seele> Riddell: from alpha 6 to beta or kde4 remix to beta?  i've only done alpha 6 to beta.. i didn't have time to back up my kde4 remix to test the beta upgrade yet
[01:45] <ryanakca> Could someone review http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/kds.bzrbundle please, before I push it to LP?
[02:04] <DaSkreech> shouldn't kdm depend on xterm ?
[02:13] <jtechidna> DaSkreech: funnily enough we were discussing that the other day
[02:13] <jtechidna> dunno what the outcome of the discussion was though, lol
[02:15] <DaSkreech> Well either make it depend on xterm or take out the failsafe login
[02:15] <DaSkreech> one of the two
[02:19] <rgreening> I vote xterm goes it. Prob is setting alternatives correclty for xterm in failsafe... somehow.
[02:19] <jtechidna> apachelogger: preemptive sry for flooding your inbox ;D
[02:19] <rgreening> could do a wrapper
[02:21] <DaSkreech> What are the arguements for not having xterm?
[02:21] <jtechidna> I don't know if there were any actually, heh
[02:22] <DaSkreech> So ... why no instally?
[02:24] <jtechidna> probably an oversight I would guess
[02:25] <DaSkreech> Why does dolphin have the Ubuntu brand on it?
[02:26] <jtechidna> what do you mean?
[02:27] <jtechidna> screenshot maybe?
[02:27] <DaSkreech> The back and forward buttons are Ubuntu circle of friendship rings on my install of Ibex
[02:27] <DaSkreech> You know what
[02:27] <DaSkreech> never mind
[02:28] <jtechidna> \o/
[02:28] <DaSkreech> X has been screwing with me all day
[02:28] <DaSkreech> It's probably moving stuff around just to get me looking thn it will knife me in the groin
[02:28] <DaSkreech> The logout buttons are all little computer screens
[02:29] <jtechidna> haha
[02:29] <DaSkreech> Ok
[02:29] <DaSkreech> Time for my heroic attempt to merge .kde4 and .kde
[02:30] <jtechidna> good luck
[02:34] <txwikinger> DaSkreech: I am interested in the result :)
[02:35] <jtechidna> actually I'm pretty much using a .kde dating from fiesty-> hardy with .kde4 components from hardy-kde4
[02:35] <jtechidna> should go pretty smoothly
[02:35] <DaSkreech> Right now I'm doing apps that I need to move
[02:35] <DaSkreech>  Kopete is easy
[02:35] <DaSkreech> I'm orried about akregator
[02:35] <jtechidna> ya, akregator isn't doing to well even with fresh configs
[02:36] <jtechidna> we get the most bug reports for akregator out of all the kdepim apps
[02:36] <DaSkreech> Serious?
[02:36] <DaSkreech> Do we hav usage stats?
[02:36] <jtechidna> not really
[02:36] <DaSkreech> I still wish that Ubuntu would use smolt :(
[02:36] <DaSkreech> I'd suspect it's the most use kdepim app
[02:37]  * jtechidna would guess kontact or kmail was
[02:37]  * DaSkreech would guess kmail is second
[02:38] <jtechidna> I use Firefox live bookmarks for the few RSS feeds I read
[02:39]  * DaSkreech stays the long curseword away from Firefox
[02:39]  * jtechidna is using a combination of gtk-qt-engine plus a hacked-together firefox theme to make firefox look somewhat presentable
[02:41] <DaSkreech> I don't care about how it looks it's eats RAM like no tomorrow
[02:41] <DaSkreech> And that plus KDE4 = assured failure
[02:42] <jtechidna> Firefox 3 is using less memory these days
[02:43] <DaSkreech> ya
[02:43] <DaSkreech> Still too much
[02:43] <jtechidna> about the same as konq for me *shrugs*
[02:45] <DaSkreech> Yeah except that it hits that with 6 tabs in Firefox and with 18 tabs in Konq
[02:46] <DaSkreech> jtechidna: why does kdm recommend logrotate?
[02:46] <jtechidna> uh, dunno
[02:47] <yuriy> jtechidna: i use it for some sites but it still leaks memory here, I have to restart it occasionally
[02:49] <jtechidna> This graph is looking very nice: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/kdebase
[02:49] <jtechidna> :)
[02:51] <yuriy> wooow
[02:51] <ScottK> DaSkreech: Because it logs stuff?
[02:51] <yuriy> jtechidna: I am so impressed by all the work you guys have been doing while I've been pretty much AWOL
[02:51] <DaSkreech> ScottK: So... by that logic wouldn't the kernel need logrotate?
[02:52] <ScottK> Dunno.  Does it recommend it too?
[02:52]  * DaSkreech ponders how thunderbird got installed on the computer
[02:52] <ScottK> Personally I think logrotate is a good thing.
[02:52]  * ScottK wishes logrotate would rotate the .Xsessions error log.
[02:54] <DaSkreech> ScottK: /etc/logrotate.conf
[02:54]  * ScottK marks that in TODO
[02:55] <DaSkreech> ScottK: It doesn't btw
[02:56] <ScottK> Oh.
[02:57] <DaSkreech> I wonder how I do a reverse look up for apt
[02:57] <DaSkreech> rdepends ?
[02:57] <ScottK> jtechidna: Please update your blog post.  It seems my characterization of superm1 as having 'shrugged' on IRC was incorrect.  Now that he's fixed kdebluetooth and is looking at solid-bluetooth, I think it ought to be mentioned.
[02:58] <jtechidna> ScottK: ok, will do
[02:58] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:00] <jtechidna> Would be very unfair to him otherwise
[03:02] <ScottK> Right.  Additionally, the last thing I want to do is piss him off when he's fixing stuff of ours.
[03:02] <jtechidna> that too ;D
[03:05] <jtechidna> yuriy: Have you seen this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport Pretty interesting/helpful
[03:11]  * Jucato pets jtechidna and jjesse :)
[03:13] <jtechidna> :)
[03:14] <Hobbsee> Jucato: hah. nice reply.
[03:14] <Jucato> :)
[03:16] <jtechidna> hehe, that mpt guy was a prick
[03:16] <jtechidna> I bet he thought he was tough for calling me out on a semantics issue
[03:16] <Jucato> but he was half right :P
[03:16] <jtechidna> Well, then Canoncial people should stop pretending to support us equally
[03:17] <jtechidna> if that really is the case
[03:18] <jtechidna> too much blame game, and eventually it all gets shifted on to us for not having enough manpower
[03:18] <jtechidna> everybody tries to save face
[03:18] <Jucato> I'm quite amused that history is repeating itself in a  one year cycle :P
[03:19] <jtechidna> oh well, I'll just keep trying as hard as I can
[03:19] <jtechidna> and call out marketing BS when I see it ;D
[03:19] <Jucato> yep. don't get discouraged. just think of Kubuntu as a community-driven distro and filter out any marketing crap :)
[03:19] <Jucato> there is one thing I was never able to filter out though... which drove me insane :)
[03:20] <jtechidna> what was that?
[03:20] <Jucato> no matter what you do, Kubuntu users will presume that Ubuntu and Kubuntu are equal :)
[03:20] <Jucato> and they'll expect the same level of "polish" whichever way you turn
[03:21] <claydoh> actually, in some cases maybe more :(
[03:21] <jtechidna> I think next cycle we'll make some strides in QA if our bug triaging work keeps up, so there's hope for improvement
[03:21] <Jucato> I never succeeded in getting the truth across :)
[03:21] <Jucato> claydoh: right :)
[03:22] <claydoh> at least in k-f-n they *seem* to understand better
[03:22] <jtechidna> probably because KDE > Gnome, and if Ubuntu is more polished than Ubuntu it's like saying Gnome is better than KDE
[03:22] <claydoh> or lese they keep themselves quiet
[03:22] <vorian> evening
[03:22] <Jucato> KFN is relatively low traffic compared to IRC :P
[03:22] <claydoh> I was thinking k-u mailing list latey (again)
[03:23] <jtechidna> I never read k-u, lol
[03:23] <Jucato> bah! I left k-u ML :)
[03:23] <claydoh> jtechidna: i wouldn't recommend it
[03:23] <claydoh> unless you want a fight, then have the thread hijacked 3 ways
[03:24] <claydoh> and thatis not an exagertion
[03:25] <jtechidna> well, even if I read it on the web archives I'd never post there :P
[03:25] <Jucato> claydoh: don't you mean 4 ways? :)
[03:25] <claydoh> Jucato: I stopped counting
[03:25] <Jucato> hehehe
[03:25]  * Hobbsee just moderates the rotten thing.
[03:26] <Jucato> jtechidna: I just hope that after all has been said and done, you won't lose enthusiasm for Kubuntu. it needs people, desperately :)
[03:26] <claydoh> but if you want some serioius kubuntu dev-bashing, then  thats your place
[03:26] <claydoh> +1
[03:26] <jtechidna> Jucato: don't worry, I'm just getting started. This just fired me up more :D
[03:26] <Jucato> jtechidna: good :)
[03:27]  * Jucato was actually happy to see new people getting involved a few months ago.. new blood
[03:27] <Jucato> ^,..,^
[03:28] <jtechidna> lol @ ascii vampire
[03:29] <DaSkreech> Ha ha
[03:29] <Jucato> :P
[03:29] <Jucato> yo DaSkreech
[03:29] <DaSkreech> Yo my man :)
[03:32] <jtechidna> On the kubuntu forums today I saw somebody who ditched Hardy for Gutsy test Intrepid
[03:32] <jtechidna> He liked Intrepid, I was suprised
[03:32]  * Jucato is scared to upgrade to Intrepid...
[03:33] <Jucato> but mea culpa for probably not reporting the "bug"
[03:34] <Hobbsee> which bug?
[03:35] <DaSkreech> I'm on it now
[03:35] <DaSkreech>  it sucks
[03:35] <Hobbsee> why?
[03:35] <Jucato> I can no longer enable deskto effects on my laptop. if I do, X crashes
[03:35] <DaSkreech> X hangs every 1/2 hour
[03:35] <Hobbsee> ouch, why?
[03:35] <DaSkreech> I don't know
[03:36] <DaSkreech> It's been doing that since the first day I installed Gutsy
[03:36] <DaSkreech> but now it's just a lot more frequent
[03:36] <DaSkreech>  running desktop effects doesn't help
[03:36] <Jucato> me it only happens in intrepid... I'm guessing new X or intel driver
[03:36] <Jucato> which sucks.. because KWin effects should be performing much better on my laptop than on my desktop :)
[03:37] <DaSkreech> I hate the new X :(
[03:37] <DaSkreech> I get what they are trying to do but can't they do that in a branch?
[03:40] <jtechidna> New X broke compat with the legacy nvidia driver for me, that's about the worst thing about Intrepid for me
[03:40] <Jucato> ah well, nvidia is t3h @#@(!!(#%$_! on KDE 4 anyway )
[03:40] <Jucato> but intel? c'mon!! it should work!! :D
[03:41] <dstambou> nvidia isn't bad now, with the new nvidia driver
[03:41] <jtechidna> actually legacy nvidia worked better than the hottest card on the market
[03:41] <dstambou> released a few days ago
[03:41] <dstambou> *brand new nvidia
[03:41] <jtechidna> it didn't offer 2D accell in the first place ;D
[03:57] <DaSkreech> kwin: X Error (error: <unknown>[DAMAGE+0], request: XDamageDestroy[DAMAGE+2], resource: 0x4e1a464)
[03:57] <DaSkreech> I'm getting that a few dozen time
[04:09] <DaSkreech> Anyone tried Quicksand yet?
[04:44] <gnomefreak> anyone have grub splash lines in thier /boot/grub/menu.lst i lost mine
[07:53] <jussi01> Morning all
[07:55] <jussi01> Got a quick bug confirmation if someone can help? In adept, when you upgrade, try viewing the package being upgraded, then clicking the "more" link at the end of the description. does it work? (it doesnt for me)
[08:15] <apachelogger> oh my
[08:16] <apachelogger> jtechidna: did you have to go there again
[08:16]  * apachelogger senses an inbalance in the karma
[08:17] <apachelogger> something in my network stack is broken
[08:17] <apachelogger> it can't connect to certain ips anymore
[08:18] <Jucato> apachelogger: nah. history just repeating itself after 1 year :)
[08:18] <apachelogger> we are stuck in a loop
[08:18] <apachelogger> omg!
[08:19] <apachelogger> evolution looks different I guess
[08:19] <Jucato> we'll see if october 2009 will have the same thing :)
[08:22] <apachelogger> hm, quassel needs a go to DATE and TIME feature
[08:22] <apachelogger> scrolling backlog in #kubuntu is highly unefficient
[08:22] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:22]  * davmor2 trips apachelogger so he falls outta the loop
[08:23] <apachelogger> good morning _StefanS_
[08:23] <apachelogger> davmor2: ey! don't mess with the loop!
[08:23] <apachelogger> I guess it is caused by bouncing karma anyway
[08:24] <Jucato> yo _StefanS_!! long time :)
[08:25] <Jucato> apachelogger: can't you Ctrl+F in Quassel then find based on timestamp?
[08:25] <_StefanS_> Jucatohh!
[08:25] <Jucato> :D
[08:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, neon will switch to intrepid about a week before release
[08:25] <_StefanS_> Jucato: indeed... ! hows the c++ coding treating you ?
[08:25] <apachelogger> Jucato: no
[08:26] <apachelogger> Jucato: most of the backlog is at the server, so the client would require an interface to directly query the log without going through the whole view the log in my buffer stack thing
[08:27] <Jucato> aah
[08:29]  * apachelogger just had the most awesome ida
[08:29] <apachelogger> *idea
[08:29] <Jucato> I thought IDE :)
[08:29] <apachelogger> Sput: we shall all reunite with debian and go to war against MS, now that their economy is failing they are weak and vulnerable
[08:29] <apachelogger> we could take WD
[08:29] <apachelogger> once and for all
[08:29]  * _StefanS_ wonders why source for kdebluetooth has unresolved dependencies
[08:30] <Jucato> _StefanS_: C++ is treating me fine.. C didnt :)
[08:30] <Jucato> actually I need to review my C++ because of 5 months of C :P
[08:30]  * apachelogger shudders because of C
[08:30]  * apachelogger also shudders because of 192 unread mails aggregated in 12 hours
[08:30] <Jucato> heheh it was a Principles of Programming class...
[08:30] <Jucato> using Turbo C :)
[08:31] <_StefanS_> good to hear, unfortunately I have not been doing much coding related
[08:32] <Jucato> _StefanS_: neither have I. the past weeks spent outisde of class was spent on UserBase :)
[08:33] <apachelogger> you know, I always tell people to go check the userbase, and I haven't been there since it was named userbase :S
[08:33] <Jucato> heheh
[08:34]  * Jucato hopes that one day it will become as great at ubuntu's community docs...
[08:35] <_StefanS_> Jucato: could you try to do a apt-get source kdebluetooth, and then try to retrieve the build-deps for it?
[08:35] <Jucato> _StefanS_: I'm not on intrepid. coz I can't enable desktop effects on intrepid, I decided to go back to hardy :)
[08:36] <apachelogger> Jucato: as long as it stays more understandible ;-)
[08:36] <Jucato> hahah :)
[08:36] <apachelogger> oh and as long as it doens't break login for almost 3 months :P
[08:37] <Jucato> um...
[08:37] <Jucato> it breaks login daily :)
[08:38] <apachelogger> nice :D
[08:38] <Jucato> I'll have to ask danimo about it. it's terribly annoying
[08:38] <_StefanS_> Jucato: uhm ok, I will just try it off an iso instead I might have corrupted my own installation (very likely)
[08:38] <Jucato> _StefanS_: ok. sorry :/
[08:39] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: looks pretty right to me
[08:40] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: does yours download ppa1 named packages?
[08:40] <apachelogger> nope
[08:40] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: I might have some screwup there i think
[08:40] <_StefanS_> ah.
[08:40] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: what packages in particular?
[08:41] <_StefanS_> 2secs
[08:41]  * apachelogger gets grumpy because he can't connect to his media server
[08:42] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: kdebluetooth requires kdebase-workspace-dev, but it has deps on libstrigiqtdbusclient (ibstrigiqtdbusclient-dev: Depends: libstrigiqtdbusclient0 (= 0.5.11-1) but 0.5.11-1ubuntu0~hardy0~ppa1 is to be installed)
[08:43] <apachelogger> ohh
[08:43] <apachelogger> yeah
[08:43] <apachelogger> we should fix that
[08:43] <_StefanS_> not sure if kdebase-workspace-dev is still a valid package
[08:43] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: I think it doesn't really matter if strigi is the hardy or the intrepid version
[08:43] <apachelogger> at least not for compiling
[08:43] <apachelogger> anyway
[08:43]  * apachelogger is wondering how to fix that
[08:44] <_StefanS_> so the build requirements is just wrong in kdebase-workspace-dev ?
[08:44] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: sudo apt-get install libstrigiqtdbusclient0=0.5.11-1
[08:44] <apachelogger> well, no
[08:44] <apachelogger> the strigi version in the hardy ppa > the strigi version in intrepid
[08:44] <_StefanS_> trying that now
[08:44] <_StefanS_> ah
[08:45] <_StefanS_> oh my it worked
[08:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: I guess we should just do a rebuild as ubuntu1 to supersed the ppa version ^
[08:48]  * apachelogger just fixed his routing table and is all happy about the access to his media server \o/
[08:50]  * _StefanS_ wonders where all the virtual machines went..
[08:50] <_StefanS_> ick.
[08:51] <apachelogger> hehe, I was wondering that yesterday, then I noticed I was logged in as wrong user ;-)
[08:53] <_StefanS_> :)
[08:53] <_StefanS_> I used to have a rhel4 installation with oracle on it.. I must have forgot a backup somewhere because its just gone.
[08:53] <_StefanS_> eww
[09:32] <yao_ziyuan> there may be a bug in kdm: if i lock screen and wait for the screen to turn black, after a while the Oxygen welcome screen will flash in and out periodically
[09:36] <apachelogger> yao_ziyuan: report a bug
[09:39] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: the bluetooth issue currently, is it kdebluetooth or solid that arent compatible with the latest api changes?
[09:40] <_StefanS_> looks to me that solid does recognize blueZ
[09:41] <apachelogger> _StefanS_: *shrug* Riddell and ScottK would know
[09:41] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: uhm ok
[09:41] <apachelogger> but AFAIK it's solid, at least they were talking about backporting solid 4.2 yesterday
[09:44] <_StefanS_> apachelogger: ok, maybe thats the way to go then..
[09:44] <_StefanS_> Riddell: any comments ? ^
[09:45]  * apachelogger notes that the backports from 4.2 included so far are not promising good quality of solid-bluze :P
[09:45] <_StefanS_> ick..
[09:46] <_StefanS_> not much hope it seems
[09:55] <apachelogger> kde rev 866736
[09:57] <apachelogger> kde bug 171870
[09:58]  * apachelogger switches to core-dev mode and fixes kde4libs
[10:04] <apachelogger> -(~/src/deb/libs/kde4libs-4.1.2:$)-> quilt import -p3 ../kubuntu_900_fix_kdedglobalaccel_crashes.diff
[10:04] <apachelogger> Importing patch ../kubuntu_900_fix_kdedglobalaccel_crashes.diff (stored as kubuntu_900_fix_kdedglobalaccel_crashes.diff)
[10:04] <apachelogger> I love quilt
[11:09] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think superm1 was looking at patching our current solid.
[11:09] <ScottK> He fixed kdebluetooth yesterday.
[11:12] <Riddell> ScottK: I'll be impressed if he manages that.  where's his kdebluetooth patch?
[11:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: which ppa has the strigi with version > intrepid?
[11:18] <ScottK> Riddell: He uploaded it.  It's at least not crashing.
[11:19] <ScottK> Not working though.
[11:19] <ScottK> Riddell: I have the impression he's quite familiar with the API changes, so maybe he has a shot at it.
[11:27] <Riddell> and now wired networking is broken with network manager?
[11:32] <ScottK> Not 100% broken
[11:32] <Riddell> ScottK: how is it broken then?
[11:32] <ScottK> rgreening is the expert on that one though.
[11:32] <ScottK> Testing right now.
[11:32] <Riddell> rgreening: what have you discovered?
[11:33] <Riddell> it doen't work for me :(
[11:33] <ScottK> Riddell: Then Bug #280919 is what you'll want.
[11:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: kde4
[11:50] <apachelogger> oh well
[11:51] <apachelogger> now I hate apparmor and network-manager
[11:51]  * apachelogger fixes his route again
[11:59] <Riddell> oh well, my ethernet is broken, nothing to do with network-manager for me
[12:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: I agree uploading the strigi build with bumped version is the thing to do
[12:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: that quilt import command, where does it put the patch?
[13:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: the patch directory
[13:10] <apachelogger> I usually ln -s debian/patches
[13:10] <apachelogger> and remove it when I am doing
[13:12] <apachelogger> *done even
[13:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh aye, there it is
[13:24] <apachelogger> Nightrose: what to write about amarok2 b2?
[13:24] <Nightrose> apachelogger: for which page?
[13:24] <apachelogger> kubuntu
[13:25] <Nightrose> switch to mysqle, librivox, lots of other bugfixes, near final release of 2.0
[13:26]  * apachelogger senses copynpaste
[13:49] <apachelogger> Nightrose: http://www.kubuntu.org/node/49
[13:51]  * apachelogger demands one-click-install
[13:52] <Nightrose> apachelogger: :*
[13:52] <apachelogger> \o/
[13:53] <apachelogger> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu needs an update
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: irt bug 280355, do you think KDE is going to implement a fake effect for non-compositing?
[14:03] <rgreening> good day all
[14:03] <JontheEchidna> good morning
[14:04] <rgreening> Riddell: For some reason it stopped working right after install of the n-m updates. However this am, it seems I can connect (though I haven't rebooted - I suspended and connected to a new wored connect ok). I need to reboot to verify if still broken.
[14:04] <rgreening> Riddell: koffice2 done. Will send diff shortly.
[14:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no, and I think it doens't make any sense
[14:13] <apachelogger> either absolutely fancy or not fancy at all
[14:13] <apachelogger> looks much worse with fake fade
[14:14] <apachelogger> we had that in KDE 3, made always feel dizzy
[14:14] <apachelogger> +me somewhere
[14:15] <rgreening> Hobbsee: koffice2 wasn't bad - just long to compile :)
[14:17] <Hobbsee> rgreening: that's the usual bad thing about it, yes :)
[14:17] <Hobbsee> rgreening: that, and it takes ages to recompile, if it breaks at the end.
[14:17] <Hobbsee> although, ccache certainly helps.
[14:18] <rgreening> Hobbsee: apachelogger pointed me to pbuilder-hooks. That helps ALOT. as when it broke, I got dropped to a shell and was able to fix/proceed from where it died. Thanks apachelogger.
[14:19] <apachelogger> you're welcome :)
[14:19] <Hobbsee> rgreening: that's true :)
[14:19] <rgreening> I'll never leave /home without it.
[14:20] <rgreening> ok... so what needs doing next?
[14:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 278634 ... how did KDE 3 handle that?
[14:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 281218 also looks like fun
[14:25] <apachelogger> wth
[14:26] <apachelogger> kde4libs_4.1.2-0ubuntu4.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu4 <= 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu5
[14:26]  * apachelogger kicks konqueror
[14:26] <apachelogger> hm
[14:27]  * apachelogger is wondering how Riddell got from ubuntu3 to ubuntu5 :P
[14:27] <rgreening> are we reverting the kwin_branch patch? Cause my screen updates are abysmal
[14:27] <apachelogger> again?
[14:28] <apachelogger> rgreening: are you sure it's caused by the kwin patch?
[14:29] <rgreening> Well, it was gone when it was removed. It was back when re-added. I can make a manual build and try again just to re-verify... but I'mm 99 and 44/100's % certain.
[14:29] <rgreening> :)
[14:30] <rgreening> JontheEchidna was seeing it also. Jon?
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I was seeing it
[14:30]  * apachelogger needs to poke jr, but jr is never around :S
[14:31]  * apachelogger thinks jr and jonny boy just stole his upload :P
[14:31] <apachelogger> rgreening, JontheEchidna: prepare a debdiff and give it some testing
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, I did to a kde4libs upload last nigh
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> s/to/do
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> not to say that I actually uploaded it either :P
[14:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 281088
[14:32] <Riddell> hmm, seems I didn't upload ubuntu4
[14:32] <apachelogger> since when does kded4 live in runtime?
[14:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: you did, but I think you immediately superseded it
[14:32] <rgreening> more like Rum time
[14:32] <apachelogger> or you didn't upload it individually and just built on top of it
[14:32] <apachelogger> eitherway, cups and kded crash fixed
[14:33] <apachelogger> rgreening: kded4 might be slightly unstable but I really wouldn't claim that it is an alcoholic
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: whoa, it's in kde4libs
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> my bad
[14:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: on https://launchpad.net/bugs/278634 KDE uses translations if kdelibs4.mo is installed
[14:35] <rgreening> apachelogger: maybe it's all the repaints, cause I'm swaying like a drunk trying to move windows to make them refresh
[14:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: hm, makes sense I guess
[14:36] <apachelogger> rgreening: sounds like some fun time ;-)
[14:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 239645
[14:38] <apachelogger> won't fix, invalid, reassign, burn compiz?
[14:41]  * JontheEchidna was afk, laundry
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> All of the above!
[14:42] <apachelogger> Can't connect to the database.
[14:42] <apachelogger> bko is getting more broken everyday
[14:43] <apachelogger> I have great hope that bugzilla eventually explodes and somone comes up with a more usable bts :P
[14:47] <apachelogger> Nightrose: did I mention that the amarok2 playlist in combination with dynamic playlists is a lot too slow for my liking?
[14:48] <Nightrose> apachelogger: huh?
[14:48] <Nightrose> works ok here
[14:49] <apachelogger> it works, but at no reasonable speed :P
[14:51] <blizzz> apachelogger: will amarok 1.4 be default in intrepid?
[14:51] <apachelogger> yes
[14:51] <blizzz> ty
[14:52] <apachelogger> if ubuntu doesn't break something underlying
[14:52] <apachelogger> xine didn't break in a long time, about time again
[15:03] <rgreening> Python 2.6 is out... are we including in Intrepid? or leaving for now?
[15:04] <ScottK> Leaving it.
[15:04] <apachelogger> we are too close to release to mess with that kind of stuff
[15:05] <ScottK> There are python 3.0 packages though
[15:06] <txwikinger> bad, bad, bad intrepid ... :)
[15:10] <ScottK> rgreening: Did you see the information wanted in the knetworkmanager bug?
[15:11] <rgreening> not yet. I'll reboot and try from scratch and update bug.
[15:11] <ScottK> OK.
[15:15] <txwikinger> I presume it is normal that kubuntu intrepid starts without any networks enabled :)
[15:16] <Riddell> seems to be the norm for knetworkmanager 0.7
[15:20] <txwikinger> very odd usage of the middle scroll button in KDE4
[15:20] <txwikinger> that is probably an xorg problem
[15:20] <Riddell> what is?
[15:21] <txwikinger> well.. I used to be able to scroll with it on the laptop
[15:21] <txwikinger> No it is the middle button but only for down
[15:21] <txwikinger> Now
[15:22] <ScottK> Riddell: What does it mean with knetworkmanager shows me a little green globe instead of a regular icon (wireless network is up and running)?
[15:25] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Please look at your triaging of Bug 145337 again.  He says in the bug it works with guidance.
[15:26] <txwikinger> According to my e-mails, I made a couple of billion $s today again :D
[15:26] <Riddell> ScottK: that usually means it thinks the network isn't connected
[15:26] <ScottK> Riddell: The tooltip says wlan0 is active and there's a checkmark next to the ap in the u/i.
[15:27] <ScottK> Weird
[15:28] <ScottK> So I deactivated the connection and reactivated it and I get the regular strength bars back.
[15:28] <Riddell> phew
[15:29] <ScottK> Riddell: I suspect it's activated, but not by that instance of k-nm.  I'd just restarted X so it seems it's not recognizing a pre-existing connection completely.
[15:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: got a debdiff for kwin yet?
[15:31] <rgreening> ScottK: works for me now. weird... maybe a stale resolve.conf entry or something...
[15:31] <txwikinger> My knetworkmanager is not even running
[15:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: any reason we wouldn't want KDM to prefer the user image resource over the administrator's? ... for bug 280746
[15:31] <rgreening> I have the vpn and resolvconf package. I'm going to remove them and try some more testing
[15:32]  * jussi01 hugs JontheEchidna - every bug I seem to report you hit! :D
[15:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: not that I know of
[15:34] <apachelogger> ok
[15:34] <apachelogger> testbuilding
[15:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, did you try the window background color I suggested?
[15:37] <rgreening> txwikinger: do you get any errors to indicate whats happening with knm
[15:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: no I don't think I saw that
[15:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: #E9E8E8
[15:39] <apachelogger> it's pretty much inbetween oxygen and the current window background color
[15:39] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: nope, haven't done anything with it yet
[15:39] <txwikinger> rgreening: It say in the popup-menu "NetworkManager is not running"
[15:40] <txwikinger> I have not gotten to a deeper analysis
[15:40] <txwikinger> Where should I look?
[15:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: good with me, want to put it in k-d-s or shall I?
[15:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: please do if you have time
[15:41]  * apachelogger is trying to reproduce a weird kdm issue
[15:43] <rgreening> ScottK: it's weird. My net works fine now...
[15:44] <rgreening> hrm
[16:00]  * rgreening is going to remove the kwin_branch pach from his kdebase-workspace and pin it! The repaint issue is beyond annoying for me
[16:01] <Riddell> I've not been getting that, I wonder if it only happens after a suspend
[16:08] <rgreening> Nope. I just clean booted and got it happening
[16:09] <rgreening> Maybe it's Intel/Mesa related. Anyone else with an Intel GM
[16:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: jtv now closed the rosetta affect of bug 278634
[16:09]  * apachelogger is getting confused
[16:10]  * _gunni_ has an intel gma 3100 ... whats the topic?
[16:10] <rgreening> _gunni_: do you see any repaint issues?
[16:10] <apachelogger> rgreening: doesn't happen here
[16:10] <apachelogger> then again I didn't supsend :P
[16:10] <rgreening> I see it from a clean boot
[16:11] <_gunni_> rgreening: You mean like stripes and glitches on window painting? Yes.
[16:11] <rgreening> Ok, so its not just me
[16:11] <_gunni_> I see them on intel and nvidia
[16:11]  * rgreening looks for ScottK.. ditch the wiki, it's not only me
[16:11]  * apachelogger only gets an uber glitched desktop from time to time
[16:11] <_gunni_> I filed a bug about that, dont know if in launchpad or kde ... i will have a look
[16:12] <rgreening> I can reproduce it. move a bunch of window foreground to back ground or min/max and it will happen
[16:12] <rgreening> Before the kwin_branch patch, it never happened. ever.
[16:12] <_gunni_> rgreening: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169106
[16:12] <apachelogger> indeed
[16:12] <apachelogger> very reproducible
[16:12] <apachelogger> not as random as I thought
[16:14] <_gunni_> rgreening: For me it seems like on heavy load its more visible. i.e. open some programs quick, and the odd rendering is more visible, because it stays longer
[16:14] <rgreening> _gunni_: I get that too. but the bug I am talking about is different (though maybe related).
[16:15] <rgreening> before the patch, I got what was in that bug, but only on opening new windows/menus. and appears a corruption. What I am seeing now is a pure repain issue (no corruption). THe repaint/refresh is simply not happening
[16:16] <rgreening> apachelogger: so, you see the repaint (delayed repaint) issue correct?
[16:16] <_gunni_> rgreening: a ok, then its different, but for me the corruption is still there
[16:16] <apachelogger> rgreening: on the desktop, yes
[16:16] <rgreening> I still get the corruption, but it's an upstream issue. the repaint is purely ours.
[16:16] <rgreening> and appears with the kwin_branch patch.
[16:19] <ScottK> Riddell: Is there some kind of build-prep I need to run for a new Guidance release?
[16:21] <Riddell> ScottK: there's a new guidance release?
[16:21] <Riddell> it's python, shouldn't be any build-prep
[16:21] <ScottK> Riddell: 4.1.2 never got uploaded.
[16:21] <ScottK> OK.  I'll go figure out what other brain-dead thing I did then.
[16:21] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:22] <ScottK> I've got that and rgreening's die nice if hal is absent patch.
[16:22] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm testing a rebuild of kdebase-workspace without kwin branch.
[16:22] <rgreening> Riddell: If that fixes, we need to look at backing it out or looking for a """"real"""" fix
[16:23] <rgreening> oh, and Riddell, you get the koffice2 for upload?
[16:23] <Riddell> rgreening: you'll need to edit the .install files since there's a few files that patch adds (debuild -nc is your friend for restarting the build without a clean)
[16:23] <rgreening> yep. done
[16:23] <rgreening> :)
[16:23] <Riddell> rgreening: I agree about backing it out (unfortunately)
[16:23] <rgreening> Im ahead of that one
[16:23] <Riddell> rgreening: yes, in my inbox, it's not out until next week so I guess we shouldn't upload it until then
[16:24] <rgreening> Riddell: me 2. I may look at modding it after I remove it to test
[16:24] <Riddell> or maybe upload to kubuntu-experimental, but I'm not a member of that
[16:24] <rgreening> Riddell: I may be able to pull out the cube and add that to current without all the other stuff they changed
[16:25] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: if you remove the kwin branch could you re-add the tooltip previews in a different branch? It just requires uncommenting the window preview stuff in cmakelists
[16:25] <JontheEchidna> *different patch
[16:25] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: wait.. there's something in the kwin branch patch for the tooltips?
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> well, sorta
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> I uncommented the window-preview-on-tooltips effect in cmakelists.txt
[16:26] <rgreening> and that's in the kwin_branch patch
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> yeah, thinking back it wasn't that smart of a move...
[16:27] <rgreening> nope
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> should have been a separate patch applied after the kwin_branch one
[16:27] <rgreening> should of patch it after
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[16:27] <rgreening> :)
[16:27] <rgreening> ok, I'll deal with that
[16:27] <rgreening> :P
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> thanks ^^
[16:27] <rgreening> np
[16:29] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: do you have an exact diff for what you added to it?
[16:29] <rgreening> just want to make sure I get it all
[16:29]  * JontheEchidna looks
[16:30] <rgreening> that would be cool
[16:30] <rgreening> :)
[16:30] <rgreening> brb
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: basically this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56023/
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> then add
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> usr/share/kde4/services/kwin/taskbarthumbnail.desktop
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> to kde-window-manager.install
[16:45] <rgreening> k.
[16:45] <rgreening> ty
[16:50] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: would it be best to add that to the plasma tooltip patch?
[16:50]  * rgreening thinks so
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> that would make sense
[16:50]  * rgreening says "make it so number one"
[16:50] <rgreening> :)
[16:57] <ScottK> Would one of you KDE ninjas please look at Klamav and figure why it disappeared out of the K menu (or maybe it's just me)?
[16:58]  * rgreening whips out nunchucks and bonks ScottK on the head and exclaims "now who needs a wiki"
[16:59] <ScottK> rgreening: Is it there for you?
[16:59] <txwikinger> rgreening: Where can I find information about problems of knetworkmanager?
[16:59] <rgreening> 1 sec.. let me install
[16:59] <rgreening> txwikinger: well, it's a SuSE developed app...
[17:00]  * txwikinger thought he uses Kubuntu :D
[17:00] <rgreening> yeah... but the community shares everything. It's like a big communal cesspool of code (tm) (c) rgreening
[17:01] <Riddell> ryanakca: did the shop page disappear from the kubuntu website?
[17:01] <rgreening> kubotu: fact It's like a big communal cesspool of code (tm) (c) rgreening
[17:01] <kubotu> incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help fact'
[17:01] <rgreening> kubotu help fact
[17:01] <kubotu> factoids plugin: learn that <factoid>, forget that <factoids>, facts about <words>
[17:01] <rgreening> kubotu: learn that It's like a big communal cesspool of code (tm) (c) rgreening
[17:01] <kubotu> okay, learned fact #11: It's like a big communal cesspool of code (tm) (c) rgreening
[17:02] <rgreening> :)
[17:03] <rgreening> ScottK: installing Klamav now
[17:03] <ScottK> rgreening: Need to work on your guidance-power-manager patch.  Before, if it started when hal was around and hal went away for a while it'd keep going OK.  Now it raises your new error and dies.
[17:04] <ScottK> Actually raises a traceback and somehow survived, but apport gets excited and wants to report it.
[17:04] <rgreening> lol
[17:04] <rgreening> can you play with it? I've got kdebase-workspace on my current plate...
[17:04] <smarter> poor apport, he doesn't have a lot of things to report so he tries to catches everything :P
[17:05] <ScottK> rgreening: Not until possibly tonight.
[17:07] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56034/
[17:07] <rgreening> ScottK: klamav not showing up for me either
[17:07] <ScottK> OK.  Would you mind having a look at the package.
[17:08] <ScottK> It showed up in Hardy and I don't think I changed it.
[17:08] <bdgraue> i'm still affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok-kde4/+bug/262725  even with the experimental ppa package :(
[17:10] <rgreening> ScottK: sure
[17:12] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:15] <rgreening> ScottK: could the ';' at the end here cause issues? Categories=Qt;KDE;Application;System;
[17:16] <ScottK> No idea.
[17:17] <smarter> nop
[17:17] <smarter> ";" at the end is compulsatory with the fd.o spec
[17:17] <smarter> try desktop-file-validate foo.desktop to see if something is wrong
[17:20] <ScottK-laptop> Well desktop-file-validate is pretty grumpy about it.
[17:20] <Riddell> I don't know if "Application" is right
[17:20] <Riddell> the ; at the end if required
[17:33] <ScottK> Application is apparently deprecated.
[17:33] <ScottK> I've repaired it some and I'm trying a test build now.
[17:33] <ScottK> Riddell: I went ahead and uploaded guidance 4.1.2 since it was late and we need to do more work on the HAL crash patch.
[17:33] <ScottK> smarter: ^^
[17:36] <smarter> ok
[17:38] <ScottK> smarter: I uploaded your bzr /debian unchanged.  If it needs to be tagged or something, please go ahead.
[17:38] <smarter> shouldn't be needed
[17:38] <ScottK> OK.  Didn't know how you did it.
[17:43] <seele> hum.. are there still problems with network manager in the beta?
[17:48] <apachelogger> rgreening: so, what to do with los kwin patchos?
[17:50] <ScottK> seele: Some are currently having trouble with wired, but wireless seems pretty good.
[17:50] <seele> ScottK: hmm.. i'm having trouble with wireless on this dell.  i dunon if it is network manager or the driver though
[17:50] <seele> getting like 8b/sec
[17:51] <ScottK> What wireless adapter?
[17:51] <ScottK> Also do you have linux-restricted-modules installed?  Some Dell wireless stuff got moved there.
[17:56] <Riddell> ScottK: thanks
[17:57] <seele> hum.. where's the ui that gives you all the hardware details? i forget what it's called
[17:58] <Riddell> ScottK: thanks
[17:58] <ScottK> seele: type lspci in Konsole and look for the one called wireless or network or something relatively obvious
[18:00] <seele> intel 3945/ABG
[18:01] <seele> ScottK: and linux-restriced-modules are installed
[18:10]  * txwikinger fixed touchpad problem
[18:15] <rgreening> wow.. my office network died. Finally came back... :)
[18:16] <apachelogger> nice
[18:16] <txwikinger> And?
[18:16] <apachelogger> rgreening: what to do with kwin?
[18:17] <txwikinger> I just had an graphical error in Konq
[18:18] <seele> ugh.. i give up
[18:18] <rgreening> apachelogger: regarding kdebase-workspace? I'm fixing it. Reverting the kwin branch
[18:18] <seele> what's the point in me testing anything if i can't get the information necessary for bug reports
[18:18] <rgreening> will submit diff shortly
[18:18] <seele> too hard
[18:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: ok, poke when you have the debdiff
[18:18] <rgreening> aye-aye
[18:19] <rgreening> kubotu learn that rgreening loves pbuilder-hooks
[18:19] <kubotu> okay, learned fact #12: rgreening loves pbuilder-hooks
[18:21] <rgreening> dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc is my friend
[18:23] <seele> hum.. crashed notifications on startup too
[18:23] <seele> didn't get that with the other computer
[18:23] <kubotu> didn't get in the groin
[18:24] <apachelogger> exactly
[18:24] <apachelogger> what is a groin?
[18:24] <ScottK> seele: We've got a few of those.
[18:24] <kubotu> what is the way i want, they revert back to Hardy, but running 'kicker' would always bring back the standard panel, that's pretty crappy
[18:24] <apachelogger> ~markov disable
[18:24] <kubotu> sure
[18:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's a rather private area of the body.
[18:25] <apachelogger> ah
[18:25] <apachelogger> uh
[18:25] <apachelogger> kubotu: where did you catch that?
[18:25] <apachelogger> very weird
[18:42] <ScottK> Gotta love the title for Debian Bug #501813
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> the font is so pointy you might poke your eyes out?
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> :P
[19:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 281327
[19:58] <apachelogger> valid or not?
[19:58] <apachelogger> there is a setting
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: wishlist at best, I'd say
[19:59]  * apachelogger thinks warnings should never ever have a don't ask again setting
[20:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, do something with it
[20:01] <apachelogger> I would close it as won't fix with above reason
[20:01] <apachelogger> especially since there is a setting
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> k
[20:27] <ryanakca> Riddell: I didn't remove it... did it get ported over?
[22:35] <ScottK> What mechanism auto-starts guidance-power-manager?
[22:38] <Riddell> ryanakca: I don't know, you did the porting :)
[22:38] <Riddell> ScottK: /usr/share/autostart/guidance-power-manager.desktop
[22:39] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[22:39] <ScottK> OK. That's yet another autostart mechanism.
[22:39] <ScottK> Didn't know about that one.
[22:39] <Riddell> it's the original one
[22:41] <ryanakca> Riddell: I guess it did disappear then...
[22:42] <Riddell> oh well
[22:42] <Riddell> I don't mind especially, a shop requested to be on it is all
[22:44] <ryanakca> Riddell: if you have a copy tucked away somewhere I can get it ported after supper
[22:44] <Riddell> I don't
[22:45] <Riddell> google knows all though http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?q=cache:Hejwh28ATz4J:www.kubuntu.org/shops.php+http://www.kubuntu.org/shop.php&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
[22:45] <Riddell> they would need to be checked for current relevance though
[22:46] <ryanakca> Riddell: ok, thanks, I'll look through the links too
[23:39] <ScottK> apachelogger or Riddell: Who do we have here that understands solid best (any volunteers)?
[23:40] <ScottK> It seems superm1 has the bluetooth API changes reasonably well understood and if someone who understands solid could work with him we might be able to bang out at least some bluetooth before release.
[23:42] <ScottK> superm1: I've asked if anyone is familiar with solid and can help out.  No answer yet (not the best time of day for the question).
[23:43] <Riddell> ScottK: ervin?
[23:43] <Riddell> he's the solid msater
[23:43] <ScottK> Riddell: You tell me?  I just package this stuff up.
[23:43] <Riddell> and tpatzig is the solid kdebluetooth master
[23:44] <ScottK> Well neither of them are here.
[23:44] <ScottK> So I guess we wait?
[23:44] <superm1> taptzig is the one that I fired that email off to ScottK
[23:44] <ScottK> OK.  Did you get anything back?
[23:44] <superm1> no.  that's the one you were CC'ed on
[23:44] <Riddell> neither sits on this channel, you'd need to ask on #kdebluetooth or elsewhere
[23:45] <ScottK> OK.  Well that's a pretty empty channel.
[23:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Is there anyone here that's done some work on solid?
[23:45] <Riddell> nope
[23:46] <Riddell> wstevenson comes to mind too, he does network manager with solid, but he's not online
[23:46] <ScottK> superm1: OK.  I was hoping he'd just forgotten to CC me on a reply.
[23:46] <superm1> Riddell, i talked to him and he pointed me at tpatzig too