[00:00] <rickspencer3> RAOF, hi
[00:00] <rickspencer3> hey TheMuso
[00:00] <TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
[00:00] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Howdie.
[00:16] <Nafai> you guys have already had a holiday before I've finished one working day this week :)
[00:30] <TheMuso> heh
[00:32] <TheMuso> Nafai: It was only myself and robert_ancell who had the public holiday.
[00:32] <Nafai> ah
[00:34] <ajmitch> TheMuso: unfortunately NZ didn't have the holiday yesterday :)
[00:34] <TheMuso> ajmitch: As I said above, I thought NSW didn't either./
[05:59] <pitti> Good morning
[07:38] <didrocks> good morning
[07:47] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:51] <baptistemm> good morning guys
[07:54] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[07:54] <didrocks> salut baptistemm
[08:00] <pitti> I'm off for an hour for some running, while the alternate test is running
[08:02] <baptistemm> salut didrocks
[08:56] <seb128> hello there
[08:56] <baptistemm> hi seb128
[08:57] <cassidy> hi
[08:57] <seb128> hey baptistemm cassidy
[08:57] <cassidy> how are things 2 days before the release? :)
[08:58] <seb128> looks good from my perspective I would say ;-)
[08:58] <didrocks> hey seb128, cassidy
[08:58] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:16] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:17] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:17] <pitti> c'mon kvm, crank harder..
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: are you very busy ATM? i. e. time for a totally low-prio question?
[09:57]  * pitti is doing install testing and wants to work on some of his old bugs
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, not busy at all no
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, I'm between iso testing and bug triage and some sru start
[10:04] <pitti> seb128: do you still remember the problem in bug 92214?
[10:05] <pitti> I think -dbg packages work in general, but there was something wrong with that particular gnome-panel version
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, I don't know details over what I wrote on the bug
[10:06] <pitti> seb128: so there the -dbg packages were broken, and the dbgsyms worked?
[10:06] <seb128> the debug symbols were fine
[10:06] <pitti> usually, with --dbg-package, dh_strip adds a .gnu.debuglink itself
[10:06] <seb128> but the real binary didn't get the .gnu_debug...
[10:07] <seb128> which means gdb was not autoloading the symbols
[10:07] <seb128> I've not seen that issue for ages though
[10:07] <seb128> I assume it has been fixed since
[10:07] <seb128> I would close the bug
[10:07] <pitti> I wonder if it was a problem in g-p back then
[10:07] <seb128> well as written in the bug
[10:08] <pitti> i. e. without p-c-d it wouldn't have gotten a debuglink either
[10:08] <seb128> "dh_strip debug symbol extraction: not adding gnu debuglinks since --dbg-package is given"
[10:08] <seb128> that error was in the build log
[10:08] <seb128> "error"
[10:08] <pitti> right
[10:09] <seb128> pitti, gnome-panel build logs still have those though
[10:09] <seb128> I just looked in the lucid build
[10:09] <pitti> right, because it builds gnome-panel-dbg
[10:10] <pitti> if --dbg-package is given, then dh_strip adds the .gnu_debuglinnk
[10:10] <pitti> if p-c-d would already do it, then the real dh_strip would fail
[10:10] <pitti> (you can only add it onc)
[10:10] <pitti> "once")
[10:10] <seb128> in any case the binary is fine in lucid
[10:11] <seb128> so whatever the bug was it has been fixed
[10:11] <seb128> I would just close the bug and don't bother trying to figure where the issue was
[10:11] <pitti> ok, so if neither of us can reconstruct what went wrong, then let's close it, yes
[10:11] <seb128> it might have been in the gnome-panel packaging indeed
[10:11] <pitti> thanks seb128
[10:11] <seb128> np
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[10:11] <seb128> hey chrisi
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: btw, it would fail with --dbg-package=libpanel-applet2-0 and compat level < 5
[10:11] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: perhaps that was the problem back then
[10:11] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: I also have a similar bug (bug 423748) with more info, I'll look at that
[10:14] <seb128> pitti, indeed, compat was 4 in that version
[10:14] <seb128> pitti, I just checked on launchpad
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, urg, new plymouth update? it means iso will be respinned I guess?
[10:21] <pitti> yes :-(
[10:21] <pitti> it broke encrypted disks
[10:21] <pitti> like, total boot failure
[10:21] <seb128> urg, ok
[10:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks, pitti: let me know if you want to do some SRU of the .1 GNOME updates
[10:35] <seb128> I'm watching those which can be interesting to update
[10:35] <pitti> seb128: I'm happy to do some; since they need bugs now anyway, perhaps just assign them to me?
[10:36] <didrocks> seb128: OTP, but will then :)
[10:36] <pitti> (or tell me which I can/should do, and I'll create the bugs)
[10:36] <seb128> didrocks, owhat?
[10:36] <pitti> "one time pad"?
[10:36] <pitti> "off to police"?
[10:36] <seb128> ;-)
[10:37] <didrocks> seb128: on the phone with 01net :)
[10:37] <seb128> oh ok
[10:38] <seb128> bah, the queue view is unusable, thanks to language packs sitting there
[10:38] <seb128> I wanted to look at which ones robert_ancell might have worked on
[10:38] <pitti> seb128: q -Q unapproved | grep -v language-pack ?
[10:39] <seb128> pitti, I tried to use the webui for once, it's a fail apparently so back to ssh yes ;-)
[10:39] <seb128> it didn't like "!language" as a filter criterious
[10:39]  * pitti mostly uses the webui these days, but right now it's useless, right
[10:39] <seb128> pitti, ok, what about gvfs and gdm for you?
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: soudns fine
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, gvfs fixes bug #553082
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, do you need an another bug to track the update?
[10:40] <pitti> that's fine
[10:40]  * pitti assigns to him
[10:40] <seb128> thanks
[10:40] <seb128> gdm is a bit border line
[10:41] <seb128> they turned a11y by default, we might want to back that out
[10:41] <seb128> not sure how much of a change that is and how much potential it has to create issues
[10:42] <pitti> ok, noted to revert that
[10:42] <seb128> pitti, bug #421292 is one fixed by the gdm update
[10:42] <mvo> seb128: hi, how can I make gnome-session run in debug mode at startup? I have a odd case here in my kvm where I can not log into the gnome-session (well, sometimes I can)
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: (bah string change..; but ok, it's a small one)
[10:43] <seb128> mvo, change the .desktop to use --debug?
[10:44] <mvo> thanks
[10:45] <mvo> I love it, now the problem went away
[10:46] <seb128> pitti, right, small ui change in the non default case for those tweaking with gconftool but no new string (ie the string is already translated)
[11:26] <seb128> hum, langpack documentation is somewhat suboptimal
[11:26] <seb128> the current iso has 2 megabytes of cheese documentation but cheese is not installed
[11:34] <pitti> can't have our cake and eat it, too :/ same problems with translations in general, of course
[11:35] <seb128> right
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: hm, you tagged gvfs 1.6.0+git20100414-0ubuntu2 with a backport of that change in bzr, but it was never uploaded (or rejected), right?
[11:42] <seb128> did I?
[11:42] <seb128> oh yes
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, no we were frozen by the time we did that and I planned to wait for upstream to ack it before uploading
[11:43] <pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gvfs/lucid/revision/122
[11:43] <seb128> and they just did yesterday
[11:43] <seb128> sorry about that
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: since that patch is in 1.6.1, I'll just clobber that entire commit, since ubuntu2 was never uploaded; ok for you?
[11:43] <seb128> yes
[11:43] <seb128> thanks
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: no need to be sorry, just ensuring that you know what happened
[11:43]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:43]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[11:44] <pitti> good that we did a git snapshot before, now it's just an one-line patch and about 3 po file changes
[11:44] <seb128> good
[11:44] <seb128> pitti, btw is apport still meant to be running on the livecd?
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: yes, it is
[11:44] <pitti> casper enables it
[11:44] <pitti> for installer crashes, etc
[11:45] <seb128> ok good
[11:45] <seb128> because it does :-)
[11:45] <seb128> I just got 3 crashes in a few minutes testing
[11:45] <pitti> hold the line! things are working!
[11:45] <pitti> hmm -- not all things work then :-(
[11:46] <seb128> 2 of thoses are installation failure when trying to enable sta in jockey
[11:47] <seb128> and one is a desktopcouch crash when trying to open the ubuntuone preference dialog
[11:58] <didrocks> finished \o/ 1h55 :/
[11:59] <pitti> didrocks: done with OTP?
[11:59] <pitti> congrats, 1:55h is a great time for OTPing!
[12:00] <pitti> (if only I knew what OTP is..)
[12:00]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[12:01]  * didrocks hugs pitti back
[12:01] <didrocks> pitti: it was "on the phone"
[12:01] <pitti> ah
[12:01] <didrocks> (with 01net, a French zdnet equivalent with a lot of readers)
[12:02] <didrocks> well, at least, the journalist is now informed on what's new in lucid and won't write crack :)
[12:03] <pitti> rickspencer3, seb128: I just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-27 FYI
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[12:03] <seb128> lunch time there
[12:03] <seb128> bbl
[12:03] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy
[12:03] <pitti> *
[12:04] <pitti> tseliot, ArneGoetje, bryceh, ccheney, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Riddell, kenvandine, seb128, Nafai: can you please add your report to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-27 ? Thank you!
[12:05] <tseliot> sure
[12:05] <bryceh> pitti, done
[12:05] <didrocks> oh, now it will be edit war, I was just going to edit quietly ;)
[12:05] <pitti> cheers
[12:06]  * bryceh waits for wiki to save
[12:06] <bryceh> there we go
[12:08] <pitti> RAOF, TheMuso ^ too
[12:09] <pitti> tseliot: while you are at it, mind replacing the milestone WI link with canonical-desktop-team.html ?
[12:09] <tseliot> pitti: I've just saved
[12:09] <tseliot> pitti: it's available if you want to edit
[12:10] <pitti> cheers, done
[12:28] <mvo> pitti: I have a crash reported in Xorg.0.log here in one of my VMs but apport does not seem to pick it up. do you have any idea why? upstart reports that apport is running and its enabled=1 n my config
[12:28] <mvo> pitti: could it be the crash handler that xorg itself provides?
[12:28] <pitti> mvo: did it write a /var/crash file? anything in /var/log/apport?
[12:29] <pitti> mvo: we disable apport by default now, though
[12:29] <pitti> ah, you enabled it
[12:29] <pitti> mvo: right, X intercepts its own crashes, it might be possible that it didn't dump core
[12:29] <pitti> or it was an assertion failure
[12:29] <pitti> mvo: checking /var/log/apport.log should help
[12:29]  * pitti -> lunch
[12:29] <mvo> pitti: ok, enjoy
[12:30] <mvo> bug #570634
[12:34] <seb128> mvo, that was the issue you wanted to debug with gnome-session --debug?
[12:35] <seb128> didrocks, it's amazing how much time people can spend on the phone I see ;-)
[12:36] <didrocks> seb128: well, TBH, being a little bit sick, it wasn't such a pleasure :p
[12:36] <seb128> didrocks, not feeling better today?
[12:36] <seb128> didrocks, let me know when the article is published somewhere ;-)
[12:36] <didrocks> but I'm pleased to see that the journalist wanted real info and no oversight
[12:36] <didrocks> seb128: sure
[12:36] <didrocks> seb128: not really better. headache now
[12:37] <seb128> :-(
[12:37] <mvo> seb128: yes, that is the one
[12:37] <didrocks> but well, don't be afraid, next Tuesday is in one week
[12:37] <didrocks> :)
[12:37] <didrocks> should be better by then
[12:53] <mvo> seb128: do you happen to know where gdm calls Xorg? where I can add arguments?
[12:57] <seb128> mvo, hum, looking
[13:01] <seb128> mvo, it seems to be coded in the binary
[13:02] <seb128> but maybe pitti has a better clue
[13:02] <mvo> seb128: hm, ok. does it call /usr/bin/Xorg ?
[13:02] <seb128> mvo, /usr/bin/X
[13:02] <seb128> I think
[13:04] <seb128> mvo, "        X server:                 /usr/bin/X"
[13:04] <seb128> in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44205395/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gdm_2.30.0-0ubuntu5_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[13:05] <seb128> mvo, that's the default value we hack when xorg is not installed at buildtime (which is required to have the real binary detection being working)
[13:05] <mvo> seb128: ok, thanks
[13:05] <mvo> seb128: I will try to see what I can do to get more info out of it
[13:28] <pitti> mvo: hm, so it was a real segfault and should have left something in /var/log/apport.log do you see anything in there?
[13:29] <mvo> pitti: no
[13:29] <pitti> mvo: 28_plymouth_transition.patch and 05_initial_server_on_vt7.patch show the places where the X server is launched, FYI
[13:31] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I tried "DonTrapSignals" in xorg.conf too, no luck, still no core. I suspect its a kvm specific problem anyway so I will just wait for bryce to give me more useful debug hints
[13:50] <Laney> RAOF: I (somehow) fixed f-spot.git
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> is it just me or is nautilus dropping some keypress events? i'm sure i keep having to press the delete key twice to get it to delete a file
[14:13] <seb128> it's you
[14:13] <seb128> I just tried and it worked
[14:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: seems to work fine here
[14:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: IIRC, there is an opened about not taking keypress if you are too fast after opening nautilus
[14:15] <didrocks> +bug
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - thanks. perhaps thats my issue then
[14:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you see, you are too fast :)
[14:16] <didrocks> taking some fresh air, see you later
[14:18] <seb128> didrocks, enjoy
[14:19] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[14:19] <didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
[14:20] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 I thought for the meeting today, you could just touch on any SRUs planned, the status of the release, tell folks to get cracking on blueprints, and let everyone go?
[14:20]  * kenvandine hears whip cracking noises
[14:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: yeah, let's keep it quick today; I just want to discuss the state of the one remaining WI (well, I can do this off-meeting as well), and check in on the remaining lucid RC bugs
[14:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: you won't be here for the meeting?
[14:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, I will be, but it seems more Lucid related
[14:22] <rickspencer3> so I figure it will easiest for you to drive
[14:23] <pitti> *nod*
[14:23] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[14:23] <pitti> seb128: can you take the blueprint part, and I the lucid release status part?
[14:31] <seb128> pitti, ok
[14:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson: do you know about the offline firefox start page not working in french in lucid? is that a translation issue?
[14:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not aware of that. is it just displaying in english?
[14:35] <seb128> no, it's displaying the online url and the "error contacting website" webpage
[14:35] <seb128> ie trying to use the online version but failing since there is no online
[14:36] <seb128> the box is a mini10 with no eth cable and by default the wireless is not working due to firmware issue
[14:36] <seb128> the mini10 support is sort of embarassing, wireless not working out of the box
[14:36] <seb128> jockey listing 2 drivers, where the first one is activated correctly but doesn't work
[14:37] <seb128> ie you see network but can't connect
[14:37] <seb128> some driver issue
[14:37] <seb128> so you have to figure to pick the second one
[14:37] <seb128> + the bluetooth dialog list a "enable bluetooth" button
[14:37] <seb128> which turns to be doing nothing
[14:37] <seb128> you can click as much as you want on it without result
[14:37] <seb128> enough ranting there ;-)
[14:37] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, so network manager is showing the network as disconnected?
[14:38] <seb128> yes
[14:38] <seb128> there is only a cabled eth listed and no cable
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i will try and reproduce
[14:38] <seb128> it does use the offline startpage if I boot in german
[14:38] <seb128> so I guess whatever defines the offline url is broken in french for some reason
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> i fixed an issue already with this recently, so i'm a bit confused ;)
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> i will try in french anyway ;)
[14:39] <seb128> well I tested on today's iso
[14:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson: is that a translation issue? I think there has been some error in export and lucid doesn't use the current ones, those will be in a stable update next week instead
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> possibly, i will try and recreate that in a moment
[14:41] <chrisccoulson> oh, i already have french installed
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> brb
[14:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - hmm, i get the offline page, but with untranslated and no layout
[14:51] <chrisccoulson> i also don't see the correct layout with the english page though (i didn't realise it was meant to have it until i saw the css file)
[14:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson: I get that too now, not sure if I had something in a weird state to try using jockey before
[14:51] <chrisccoulson> so there is something messed up with the documentation
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and figure that out
[14:52] <seb128> thanks
[14:55] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i can see the issue
[14:56] <chrisccoulson> the code which assembles the localised offline URL in ubufox is never actually called
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - would you mind reporting a bug for that and assigning it to me?
[14:59] <seb128> ok will do
[14:59] <seb128> on ubufox?
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yes please
[15:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson: bug #531882?
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[15:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson: not mine but you're welcome ;-)
[15:01] <seb128> I just looked for open bugs without opening one
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, ok ;)
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - mind adding a lucid task to it?
[15:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson: done
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
[15:02] <seb128> yw ;-)
[15:03] <seb128> seems you might want to close bug #520425
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> ah yes, i'll close that now. thanks
[15:08] <seb128> pitti, upstream got a new gdm version out to fix a build issue btw
[15:08] <pitti> seb128: bah
[15:08] <pitti> I filed a bug and a patch to report it
[15:08] <seb128> you were just fixing it?
[15:08] <pitti> only to see that it was fixed 17 mins ago in git
[15:09] <seb128> :-(
[15:09] <pitti> and now I cherrypicked that patch :)
[15:09]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[15:09]  * pitti updates to 2.30.2 then
[15:09] <seb128> pitti, btw if you are still in sru mood you can perhaps do gnome-keyring
[15:09] <seb128> pitti, you can say no if you have other things to do
[15:09] <pitti> seb128: can do; is there a bug?
[15:10] <pitti> seb128: no, it's fine; I need to leave in 5 mins, though, for about an hour
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> on the topic of updates, is there a reason gnome-terminal is still on 2.29.6 (other than the fact nobody had time to work on it)?
[15:10] <seb128> not that I know about no
[15:10] <seb128> just lack of interest for it I guess
[15:11] <seb128> pitti, bug, let me check the upstream fixed issues if there is any in launchpad
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> do you want me to update that to stable as a SRU?
[15:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson: you are welcome to do so yes ;-)
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks. i will do that later then
[15:12] <seb128> if somebody want to do some .1 sru updates too let me know
[15:13] <seb128> pitti, no, no bug for gnome-keyring I can open one and assign to you though
[15:13] <pitti> seb128: please do; thanks!
[15:13] <seb128> np, thank you for doing those updates ;-)
[15:15] <pitti> gdm is quite hairy, that'll require some testing
[15:15]  * pitti will put into desktop PPA and send a CFT to the bugs
[15:16] <seb128> yeah, I said it's border line
[15:16] <seb128> but some of the fixes seem worth getting in a lts
[15:17] <pitti> ok, I'm off for about an hour
[15:19] <seb128> pitti, see you!
[15:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson: btw do you want to do the g-s-d and g-c-c .1 update in a sru between now and uds if you have a free slot?
[15:43] <seb128> trying to dispatch a bit those updates
[15:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, no problem. i can do those
[15:43] <seb128> didrocks will get some too and pitti did some already today
[15:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks
[15:43] <chrisccoulson> i should really do my core-dev application between release and UDS too
[15:43] <mvo> pitti: do you have a opinion on SRU for bug #548534 ? it slipped through the cracks for -final
[15:44] <mvo> pitti: I think its fine and prepare a sru with it
[15:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson: would be nice
[15:46] <seb128> mvo, seems fine to me for the record ;-)
[15:46] <mvo> thanks seb128
[15:48] <jcastro> seb128: can you run vinagre real quick? It seems to have reverted to the old tray for me and I just want to make sure it's not me
[15:49] <seb128> jcastro, vinagre doesn't have a notification icon does it?
[15:49] <seb128> jcastro, or you mean vino, ie activating desktop sharing?
[15:49] <jcastro> seb128: yeah
[15:49] <jcastro> sorry, I mix them up all the time
[15:49] <seb128> jcastro, we never got that change in
[15:50] <seb128> did we?
[15:50] <seb128> let me check
[15:50] <seb128> no we didn't
[15:50] <jcastro> oh oh, right right. sorry!
[15:50] <jcastro> this is the one ken found was buggy
[15:50] <seb128> np ;-)
[15:51] <seb128> I know there was concerns with the change
[15:51] <seb128> but I'm not the one who did review it
[15:51] <seb128> I just know we didn't get it in shape for lucid
[16:32] <Nafai> morning
[16:34] <rickspencer3> hi Nafai
[16:41] <ogra> seb128, whats the easiest way to kill gnome-panel and make it not come back atm ? (didnt it use to have an option for that)
[16:42]  * ogra tries to compare memory footprints with and without panel on armel netbook
[16:45] <kklimonda> ogra: it stops respawning when you kill it few times if you do it quickly
[16:46] <ogra> heh, i wonder if thats true for the slow ARM board i use it on, but i'll try
[16:46] <ogra> thanks :)
[16:46] <staz> ogra: can't you desactivate it in gnome-session-properties?
[16:47] <staz> or just delete both panel
[16:47] <staz> ah no apparently that's not in session properties
[16:47] <kklimonda> and you can't delete both panels :)
[16:47] <staz> damn
[16:47] <ogra> right
[16:48] <ogra> i'll have to modify the defaults anyway to also measure startup times
[16:48] <ogra> but killing multiple times worked
[16:48] <kklimonda> I think that the "right" approach to disable it for the longer time would be to tinker with gconf settings - there is /desktop/gnome/session/required_components
[16:48] <ogra> only gains me about 8M though
[16:48] <ogra> yep
[16:48] <ogra> i'll do that with a later image, i'll have to switch back to install tests for now
[16:49] <ogra> its just the most convenient time to fiddle with such stuff between two installations :)
[16:49] <pitti> mvo: "bearable" :-)
[16:49] <pitti> mvo: (just commented on the bug)
[17:16] <sshaw> cj: ping
[17:27] <cj> sshaw: moo
[17:27] <sshaw> hi
[17:27] <sshaw> so, do you want to pick up where we left off on friday?
[17:30]  * kenvandine waves
[17:30] <pitti> \o
[17:30] <pitti> rickspencer3: meeting o'clock?
[17:31] <Nafai> o/
[17:31]  * didrocks waves too
[17:31] <rickspencer3> hi all
[17:32] <rickspencer3> oops
[17:32] <ccheney> hi
[17:32] <rickspencer3> dang it
[17:32] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, can you paste the link to the agenda, which I did not touch or look at yet?
[17:32] <pitti> don't worry, everyone's turning hard on the install testing crank anyway :)
[17:32] <ArneGoetje> hi
[17:32] <rickspencer3> not that I'm totally unprepared, it's just that I'm totally unprepared
[17:32] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-27
[17:33] <rickspencer3> didrocks is sick I think, I told him to sleep through the meeting to recoup for next week
[17:33] <Riddell> hi
[17:33] <pitti> ah, good; I talked him out of continuing to read docs :)
[17:33] <didrocks> I will still have a little look, but not being brain-ready ;)
[17:33]  * tseliot waves
[17:33] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, Nafai, chrisccoulson, seb128
[17:34] <rickspencer3> tseliot,
[17:34] <kenvandine> didrocks, rest... rest...
[17:34] <kenvandine> :)
[17:34] <rickspencer3> let's go
[17:34] <rickspencer3> as discussed earlier, let's keep this short and stay focused on working on Lucid
[17:34] <rickspencer3> I asked pitti to cover current release status, SRUs
[17:34] <rickspencer3> then we'll talk blueprints, UDS briefly
[17:34]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti
[17:35] <seb128> hey
[17:35] <pitti> ok, folks; congrats to an exemplary http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
[17:35] <seb128> sorry I was out and that took a bit longer than I wanted
[17:35] <pitti> we have exactly one WI left (I did some cleanup), which is bug 496363
[17:35] <pitti> this looks SRUable to me
[17:35] <pitti> pretty important, but not a dealbreaker
[17:35] <kenvandine> yay
[17:35] <pitti> I'll discuss with tseliot offline
[17:36] <pitti> s/offline/off meeting/
[17:36] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:36] <pitti> freshly updated from 15 mins ago (yay prep)
[17:36] <tseliot> ok
[17:36] <pitti> we got through most of the RC bugs indeed, and have just four which are in the "NFC" category
[17:36] <pitti> but all are SRUable
[17:37] <pitti> two are being done by other teams
[17:37] <pitti> so I think we are reasonably good on this front
[17:37] <pitti> seb128 has started to coordinate pushing GNOME 2.30.1 into lucid-proposed
[17:37] <pitti> some packages make pretty bold changes (gdm *cough*), but most seem entirely appropriate
[17:38] <seb128> ;-)
[17:38] <pitti> any questions/comments/flames/OMGbreakages?
[17:38] <pitti> aside from that, we have a set of CD images now which is believed to be good, and are good candidates for becoming THE lucid images
[17:38] <pitti> so, happy testing everyone!
[17:38] <rickspencer3> wow
[17:38] <rickspencer3> test test test
[17:38] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:38] <pitti> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[17:39]  * Nafai downloads
[17:39] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm done, I think
[17:39] <rickspencer3> great
[17:39] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:39] <rickspencer3> UDS
[17:40] <rickspencer3> basically, assume that your blueprints are accepted for UDS
[17:40] <rickspencer3> and get cracking on the summaries
[17:40] <rickspencer3> the earlier the summaries are done, the better feedback you will get
[17:40] <rickspencer3> HOWEVER
[17:40] <rickspencer3> this is a secondary priority to Lucid
[17:40] <rickspencer3> imnsoho
[17:40] <rickspencer3> any questions about UDS?
[17:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: what's the first 'o'?
[17:41] <rickspencer3> pitti, just a typo
[17:41] <bryceh> pitti: ornery maybe?
[17:41] <Nafai> bryceh: :)
[17:41] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:41] <kenvandine> hehe
[17:41] <rickspencer3> "overly"?
[17:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, should people make sure they do subscribing? as indicated on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintingSchedule for next week?
[17:42] <rickspencer3> "opportunisticly"
[17:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, yes
[17:42] <bryceh> hehe, there ya go
[17:42] <rickspencer3> UDS is in 2 weeks
[17:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok, I just wanted to mention it again there ;-)
[17:42] <seb128> btw people should also subscribe the uds on launchpad I guess
[17:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, good job in slipping in the link to the blueprint schedule ;)
[17:43] <pitti> oh, did everyone register their attendance?
[17:43] <seb128> to acknowledge they will be there and for sheduling
[17:43] <rickspencer3> seb128, good point
[17:43]  * kenvandine has
[17:43] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m/+attend
[17:44] <chrisccoulson> i think i did
[17:44]  * jcastro made video instructions for the blueprints and for people who schedule sessions
[17:44] <tseliot> yes, of course
[17:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:47] <rickspencer3> so if now more questions, I suggest we adjourn
[17:47] <rickspencer3> questions?
[17:47] <kenvandine> nope
[17:47] <seb128> no
[17:49]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:49] <rickspencer3> happy testing all
[17:49] <rickspencer3> btw, I'll be out of pocket on release day, and jet lagged on Friday
[17:49] <seb128> thanks
[17:49] <pitti> thanks all
[17:49] <didrocks> thanks everyone, going back to bed :)
[17:49] <rickspencer3> please escalate issues to pitti during that time
[17:50] <rickspencer3> (as if you wouldn't anyway ;) )
[17:50]  * pitti hides
[17:50] <tseliot> :-D
[17:52] <jcastro> if anyone needs help making blueprints or scheduling here are the videos: http://ubuntudevelopers.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
[17:52] <jcastro> rickspencer3: I even made one for track leads!
[17:53] <tseliot> thanks jcastro
[17:53] <rickspencer3> jcastro, sweet
[17:53] <sshaw> what are the Build-Depends for a package that has a schema file in it?
[17:53] <sshaw> (for gnome)
[17:53] <sshaw> I've added libgconf2-dev, but still get an error when trying to build
[17:54] <seb128> sshaw, there is no need to build-depends, schemas are text files they don't need to be built...
[17:54] <seb128> could you copy the error?
[17:54] <sshaw> seb128: I'm getting this error during the build
[17:54] <seb128> which error?
[17:54] <sshaw> Makefile.am:8: GCONF_SCHEMAS_INSTALL does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
[17:55] <sshaw> seb128: on openSUSE, I had to run autoreconf and intltool to get it to build.  I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing on ubuntu though
[17:56] <sshaw> I'd assume that I'd need to do that here as well, but not sure exactly how that's done
[17:57] <chrisccoulson> which application are you trying to compile?
[17:58] <sshaw> at-spi2-atk
[17:58] <sshaw> I think it shows up as libatk-adaptor
[17:59] <Nafai> didn't have breakfast, so I'm taking lunch
[17:59] <seb128_> sorry got disconnected on eth change
[17:59] <seb128_> sshaw, can you copy the error again there?
[17:59] <sshaw> Makefile.am:8: GCONF_SCHEMAS_INSTALL does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
[18:00] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: https://launchpad.net/~mono-a11y/+archive/ppa
[18:00] <seb128_> you have libgconf2-dev installed?
[18:01] <sshaw> pretty sure, but I'll double check
[18:01] <sshaw> yup its installed
[18:01] <seb128> seems a bug in your source
[18:01] <sshaw> I wonder if I need to rerun autoconf
[18:02] <sshaw> because this works on openSUSE and Fedora
[18:05]  * kenvandine -> lunch
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> sshaw, could you post the Makefile.am you have issues with somewhere? the version in the PPA you linked builds fine here
[18:07] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: right, I'm trying to add a patch to it with the changes since that tarball since there are important updates, just no new tarball yet
[18:08] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: I'll post the patch
[18:08] <dobey> hrmm
[18:08] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: http://anonsvn.mono-project.com/viewvc/tags/uia2atk/2.0.1/build/patches/at-spi2-atk.diff?revision=153711
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i can't see how that patch could break it. it doesn't touch any of the build system at all
[18:11] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: I suck... totally the wrong patch
[18:12] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: this is the right one... http://anonsvn.mono-project.com/viewvc/trunk/uia2atk/build/patches/at-spi2-atk.diff?view=log
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> you must be missing an earlier patch then
[18:13] <sshaw> that's it
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> GCONF_SCHEMAS_INSTALL needs to be defined in configure.ac
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> with AM_CONDITIONAL
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> hence the error ;)
[18:14] <sshaw> with that patch, an autoreconf fixes that
[18:14] <sshaw> I realize that configure.ac is what's used though
[18:14] <sshaw> (by autotools)
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> oh, of course. yes, that would work
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> the AM_GCONF_SOURCE_2 macro does it all for you
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> which is included in that patch
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> but you need to do autoreconf with libgconf2-dev installed
[18:16] <sshaw> right
[18:16] <sshaw> I just don't know how to do that in ubuntu :)
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> the same as anywhere else isn't it?
[18:16] <sshaw> I'd assume it would be in debian/rules that I'd need to set that
[18:16] <sshaw> I'm come to realize that everyone puts their own spin on things
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> yes, we normally do the autotools update before building the source package, and include the whole thing in a patch
[18:17] <sshaw> like, in openSUSE it isn't dh_auto_configure :)
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> rather than doing it at build time with a hook in debian/rules
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> but either way is fine
[18:18] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: I'd prefer to do it the 'upstream' distro way :)
[18:18] <sshaw> I'm very much a newbie when it comes to deb packaging
[18:19]  * pitti -> dinner and some walk
[18:22] <sshaw> chrisccoulson: if you or someone else doesn't mind showing me, I'll do it which ever way is the preferred method
[18:44] <dobey> kenvandine: are you around?
[18:45] <ccheney> ouch heavy disk io is causing such lags on my laptop that nm dropped my wifi connection :-\
[19:17] <kenvandine> dobey, yo
[19:18] <dobey> kenvandine: there you are!
[19:18] <dobey> kenvandine: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntuone-client/fix-567223/+merge/23879
[19:18] <dobey> kenvandine: this is supposed to be in lucid final, no? i see it's merged into lp:ubuntu/ubuntuone-client, but the update doesn't appear to be in the archive
[19:19]  * kenvandine looks
[19:26] <kenvandine> dobey, weird... very weird... i know i uploaded it
[19:26] <kenvandine> and am pretty sure confirmed it was in the unapproved queue
[19:27] <dobey> kenvandine: is it still in unapproved queue i guess? :(
[19:27] <kenvandine> no
[19:27] <dobey> huh
[19:27] <kenvandine> there was multiples in the unapproved queue last week
[19:27] <kenvandine> maybe the wrong one got accepted?
[19:27] <dobey> oh the old one and the new one were both there?
[19:27] <kenvandine> yes
[19:28] <kenvandine> i think there were actually 3 versions there :)
[19:28] <dobey> well 1.2.1-0ubuntu1 is what's in the archive
[19:28] <kenvandine> yeah
[19:28] <kenvandine> i think 2 of them had the same version number
[19:28] <kenvandine> man last week feels like ancient history
[19:28] <dobey> huh
[19:28] <dobey> yeah
[19:29] <kenvandine> well, it is too late to get on the CD :/
[19:29] <dobey> but we need that patch in there :(
[19:29] <dobey> :(
[19:30] <kenvandine> i guess i should upload it for an sru then... sorry about that
[19:31] <dobey> kenvandine: do we (ubuntuone) need to do anything for that?
[19:31] <kenvandine> no
[19:31] <dobey> kenvandine: ok, thanks.
[20:42]  * pitti waves good night
[20:47] <Nafai> night pitti
[23:01] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[23:24] <rickspencer3> Hi TheMuso
[23:41] <rickspencer3> weird
[23:41] <rickspencer3> is there a reason that I can't find ajunta in the lucid repos?
[23:42] <rickspencer3> because it's call "anjunta" maybe?
[23:43] <chrisccoulson> or anjuta ;)
[23:45] <rickspencer3> dang it
[23:45] <rickspencer3> it's also not categorized in the software center
[23:45] <rickspencer3> fortunately Google figured out what I watned
[23:52] <nny> so haven't touched ubuntu since they added telepathy/empathy. How do I pull up a chat window shown in telepathy?
[23:53] <nny> And is there any reason I just had 2-3 lockups and empathy restarts when trying to message nickserv and register for IRC?


[00:00] <GrueMaster> brandini: Yes. Multiple trees.  http://kernel.ubuntu.com
[00:01] <brandini> phew, why couldn't I find that
[00:07] <brandini> GrueMaster: I'm still looking for the assembly code you guys wrote to initialized the panda :)
[00:09] <GrueMaster> I believe TI keeps it in the mach-omap2 stuff under arch/arm.  Not sure.
[00:09] <GrueMaster> Or plat-omap.
[00:10] <brandini> they release source for that?
[00:13] <GrueMaster> If you clone the ubuntu/ubuntu-oneiric.git tree, there should be a branch in it for ti-omap4 (iirc).
[00:13] <brandini> thank you :)
[00:14] <GrueMaster> It is a separate branch though, not the main trunk.
[00:16] <GrueMaster> Looks like ubuntu-3.0.0-1205.10 (according to git web).
[03:39] <twb> lilstevie: ping
[03:39] <twb> lilstevie: nag re send me known-good u-boot.bin
[08:21] <twb> lilstevie: poke poke
[08:21] <CodeWar> whats a good hardware to test ubuntu-arm on ? preferrably a SMP one
[08:22] <CodeWar> Tegra part of the supported list?
[08:22] <twb> CodeWar: efikamx should be good, they seem to actually be contributing to debian
[08:23] <twb> tegra is more like "if the moon is waxing and you're standing on one leg, it works OK...ish"
[08:24] <infinity> We don't have installers for efika systems right now (and they're not SMP).
[08:24] <infinity> If you want SMP, a Toshiba AC100 netbook  or a TI PandaBoard are your best bets.
[08:24] <twb> infinity: oh, sorry
[08:24] <twb> AC100s are about the same as TF101s, aren't they?  i.e. sucky?
[08:24] <infinity> Mine works great.
[08:25] <twb> OK
[08:25] <infinity> Outperforms the Panda by no small margin, if it had a US keyboard layout, I'd actually use it as my primary netbook.
[08:25] <infinity> But the Uk keyboard makes me want to kick puppies.   Keyboard layouts are a religious thing. :)
[08:26] <CodeWar> AC101 dual core A9 .. decent enough let me look it up
[08:26] <twb> Well you can remap it if it's just the caps
[08:26] <infinity> CodeWar: It's a Tegra2.
[08:27] <infinity> twb: Yeah, remapping it fails a bit because you end up with a teeny-tiny \| key, due to the enter key eating most of its neighbours.
[08:27] <twb> yeah OK
[08:27] <infinity> Om now now.
[08:27] <infinity> nom nom too.
[08:27] <twb> That's one of my biggest hates on keyboards, that big enter key
[08:27] <CodeWar> Asus Transformer 2 .. is that expected to work :-)
[08:28] <twb> I mean half the time I type ^M anyway
[08:28] <CodeWar> would be best
[08:28] <infinity> CodeWar: There have been some people fiddling with the TF2.  It has no official support, but I know you can make it work with enough effort.
[08:28] <twb> CodeWar: I have a TF101 (Eee Pad Transformer 32G); currently it only works with crappy old 2.6.36
[08:28] <infinity> CodeWar: Panda or AC100 work out of the box, which is appealing if you just want to get to hacking.
[08:28] <twb> When lilstevie comes back from the pub or his girlfriend's or whatever and helps me, I might make some more progress :P
[08:29] <CodeWar> thanks guys .. still trying to wrap my head around these various models ..
[08:29] <diwic> infinity, I was a little surprised when I read the release notes, AC100 and IMX.53 (I think?) was listed, but not the Pandaboard.
[08:30] <infinity> (And most devices that ship with Android can just be abused to boot Ubuntu with an Android kernel, but the user experience there will vary, depending)
[08:30] <twb> That's cheating
[08:30] <twb> it doesn't count
[08:30] <infinity> diwic: AC100 and i.MX53 were listed as new, omap3 and omap4 were already supported.
[08:30] <diwic> infinity, ok, that explains it, thanks
[08:31] <soren> You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Pandaboard, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need.
[08:31] <twb> sheevaplug used to ship with ubuntu pre-installed
[08:32] <infinity> soren: To be fair, that's more or less what you get if you order a Freescale i.MX53.  They ship with an SD with Ubuntu.  Though, I need to find someone at Freescale to talk to about refreshing their image to use a saner kernel.
[08:32] <twb> But IMO the goal should be a pure blend
[08:32] <infinity> It would be nice if TI did the same thing with the Panda package, though.
[08:32] <infinity> Not that it's rocket science to download an image and make it go, but the user experince is fairly shiny when it "just works" without having to read.
[08:34] <soren> infinity: Looking at the i.MX53 now. Glancing at the specs, it looks somewhat less beefy.
[08:34] <infinity> soren: Well, it's a single-core A8, which is less cool than a Panda or AC100, but for people doing a lot of building, the on-baord SATA more than makes up for it.
[08:35] <soren> infinity: Oh, shiny. I didn't notice that.
[08:35] <infinity> soren: Building most things on A8/A9 systems is almost entirely I/O bound, not CPU.
[08:35] <twb> infinity: what, you don't use iSCSI pointing at the SAN for everything ? ;-)
[08:35] <soren> infinity: Ok. Well, let me rephrase then..
[08:35] <soren> You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Freescale i.MX53, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need.
[08:36] <infinity> twb: It doesn't matter how cool my networking tech is, you can't get past the part where Pandas have a 100bit ethernet adapter hanging off a USB 2.0 bus. :P
[08:36] <soren> 100bit?  Those.
[08:36] <infinity> It feels like 100bit.
[08:36] <twb> that's the uart :P
[08:37] <infinity> (To be clear, I have no issues with the Panda's architecture, it's a dev board meant to be a giant cell phone, and it works great for what it's meant to do... It's just a lousy desktop or build server due to USB being your limiting factor for any storage)
[08:38] <soren> At least for me, having to buy unknown hardware and bits and pieces just to even get started has put me off for a looong time. Now I've actually bought a pandaboard, but still haven't gotten it to work.
[08:38] <infinity> soren: Flash oneiric image to SD, insert, boot.
[08:38] <soren> Done that.
[08:38] <infinity> soren: It's pretty straightforward these days.
[08:38] <soren> Doesn't work. It just lights up very briefly, then turns off.
[08:38] <soren> No clue why.
[08:38] <infinity> That sounds unpleasant.
[08:38] <infinity> The turning off bit.
[08:38] <infinity> They don't do that.
[08:39] <soren> I RMA'ed the board (not just for this reason), but the new one does the same.
[08:39] <infinity> Oh, actually, it might do that if it fails to find anything interesting on the SD, I don't recall.
[08:39] <soren> What the heck. I'll give it another go.
[08:39] <infinity> Wiggle the card, rewrite it moar bettar, use a different one?
[08:40] <soren> Where' the current "Idiot's guide to Ubuntu on Pandaboard"?
[08:40] <soren> I've tried two different card.
[08:40] <infinity> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
[08:40] <soren> Same micro-SD-regular-SD converter, though.
[08:41] <infinity> Oh, I've had serious issues with micro->regular->Panda, though I'd always assumed it was just my own cards and adapters being shit.
[08:41] <infinity> (Which it probably is)
[08:41] <soren> Maybe I should see if I could find a regular SD card somewhere.
[08:41] <soren> ...or just try a different adapter.
[08:41] <infinity> But yeah.  SD/MMC is about the worst choice for installatoin media ever, but we have no options.
[08:41] <soren> HAdn't thought of that.
[08:42] <twb> infinity: ferrite core
[08:42] <infinity> If I recall, the Panda will just appear to "do notihng" if you light it up and it sees nothing of interest in the SD slot.
[08:42] <soren> infinity: Well, if no SD card is in, it stays on.
[08:42] <soren> When my SD card is in, it shuts off.
[08:42] <infinity> Well, nothing of interest, after looking.
[08:42] <infinity> It's a bit fiddly in those first few miliseconds. :P
[08:42] <infinity> After that, it's great!
[08:44] <soren> I guess it could be the power supply.
[08:45] <soren> It says it goes up to 2.5A.
[08:47] <twb> Or dirty power that is pissing it off because it's a switching-mode PSU and thus sensitive to problems in the wave
[08:47] <twb> We went through three soekris net5501 PSUs here before we gave up
[08:49] <soren> infinity: The for the PAndaboard I want to use the OMAP4 image, right?
[08:50] <infinity> soren: Yup.
[08:51]  * soren downloads
[08:54] <soren> Oops, accidentally grabbed the natty image. Will that work ok?
[08:54] <infinity> It will, but why start out-of-date?
[08:54] <infinity> Especially if you're using SD.  Upgrading is SLOW. :P
[08:56] <soren> I just want to see that damn thing work.
[08:56] <soren> Also, the oneiric image seems to be more than 3 times bigger. Writing out the natty image takes long enough.
[09:03] <soren> Holy crap! It stayed on!
[09:03] <infinity> Magic.
[09:04]  * soren headdesks
[09:04] <soren> It's been that adapter all along, then!
[09:06] <soren> And the one I'm using now is identical. *sigh*
[09:12] <ogra_> lool, poke
[09:17] <ogra_> hmm
[09:17] <ogra_> infinity, do you happen to know where the new flash-kernel lives in debian atm ? did it migrate to unstable or is it still in experimental ?
[09:18] <ogra_> (i would like to file a sync request ahead of time so we have it immediately after opening)
[09:18] <infinity> ogra_: Not sure.  I'd assume either experimental, in some VCS somewhere, or on lool's hard drive.
[09:18] <ogra_> i suspect we will run into a pile of issues
[09:18] <ogra_> so the sooner we get it the better
[09:18] <infinity> ogra_: I'm not positive that lool thinks it's ready for prime-time, but I haven't talked to him about it for a couple of months.
[09:19] <ogra_> i know its ready for the arches we support but might handle things different than we do for these
[09:19] <infinity> ogra_: Given that this is an LTS coming up, I'm not sure I'm inclined to switch.
[09:19] <ogra_> i know its not ready for "old" arches
[09:19] <infinity> ogra_: Dealing with the bugs we know seems saner.
[09:19] <ogra_> which we dont care about
[09:19] <ogra_> and i know its used by default in armhf in debian
[09:20] <ogra_> but thats not in any official repo
[09:20] <infinity> Almost.
[09:20] <infinity> But is it?  They don't have installation media.
[09:20] <ogra_> infinity, well, you had a spec to actually use its database for HW stuff iirc
[09:20] <ogra_> and i would like to get rid of the crap ahead of the LTS
[09:21] <ogra_> else we need to carry the hackish version for 5 years
[09:21] <infinity> http://ports.debian.net/debian/pool-armhf/main/f/flash-kernel/
[09:21] <soren> What does "hf" stand for, btw?
[09:21] <ogra_> right, i dont think we can sync from there
[09:21] <diwic> hard float
[09:21] <ogra_> soren, hard float
[09:21] <soren> Ah.
[09:22] <diwic> ogra_, does the official oneiric image for AC100 have working sound?
[09:22] <infinity> ogra_: Eh.  I don't mind carrying it for 5 years.  Once it's set up, it works.  It's not like it's a maintenance burden.
[09:22] <ogra_> diwic, btw, doi you remember who waas chiming in when we talked about 5.1 recievers ? i owe him a beer :)
[09:22] <infinity> diwic: It does if you use headphones.
[09:22] <ogra_> diwic, only with a kernel update thats not in an SRU yet and with some alsamixer adjustments
[09:23] <ogra_> and it breaks after resume from suspend
[09:23] <ogra_> but all these issues should be fixable and will make it into SRUs
[09:23] <infinity> ogra_: The problem with that spec is that it assumes some debian-cd violence and other things.  Which I'm happy to do, but I feel like it would be a waste of timein a cycle where we should be focussing on stabilising existing software, not introducing new stuff.
[09:23] <diwic> ogra_, sorry, don't remember the 5.1 receiver stuff?
[09:24] <ogra_> infinity, well, for me thats not so much introducing new stuff but getting rid of the horrid hacks
[09:24] <infinity> ogra_: I really do want to implement that spec and get the new hw DB idea working right, but this just feels like the wrong time.  I dunno.  We'll argue about it in Orlando. ;)
[09:24] <ogra_> diwic, yeah, its started with me asking you about spectrum analyzer software
[09:24] <diwic> right
[09:24] <ogra_> he chimed in and recommended me to rather get a denon ...
[09:25] <ogra_> after 3 weeks of bitter ear pain with the new yamaha i returned it on monday ... now i have a denon, no more earpain, waaaay better sound :)
[09:25]  * soren pats his Denon receiver in his desk
[09:26] <ogra_> and i got it reaaaaly cheap because they felt pity for giving me something that produces ear pain :)
[09:26] <ogra_> (like a 500€ discount *g*)
[09:26] <soren> Wow.
[09:27] <ogra_> soren, for the SACD player i bought i got a 1000€ discout because the box was missing ....500 isnt that much ;)
[09:28] <soren> If you can get a €1000 it must have been rather pricey to begin with.
[09:28] <lilstevie> ogra_: is there anything major different between the AC100 image and the omap builds?
[09:28] <soren> I think mine cost €1000 total.
[09:28] <soren> 11 years ago.
[09:29] <ogra_> lilstevie, look at ac100-tarball-installer source, that has all the specialities ... beyond that indeed it has its own kernel and bootloader setup
[09:29] <lilstevie> ok :)
[09:30] <ogra_> soren, yeah, my old system costed me 600, including cup sized speakers etc ... i thought its time for an upgrade and invested 5000
[09:30] <lilstevie> ogra_: was mainly wondering for basing my transformer stuff from one of them
[09:30] <ogra_> lilstevie, feel free, but you might need some adjustments
[09:31] <lilstevie> well I do have a different bootloader setup
[09:31] <ogra_> right, and a different kernel
[09:31] <lilstevie> yeah
[09:54] <lool> ogra_, infinity: New f-k is in experimental and in git
[09:54] <lool> there are more changes to be done, but I guess it's already better than what we have
[09:54] <ogra_> lool, do you think its suitable for an LTS ?
[09:54] <ogra_> yeah, thats what i think too
[09:54] <lool> it doesn't support SD card right now
[09:55] <ogra_> and i dont want to sit on what we have for 5 years
[09:55] <ogra_> argh, seriously ?
[09:55] <lool> well, it doesn't have any OMAP mechanism; you could point it at /boot though
[09:55] <lool> I don't think much OMAP support made it to Debian
[09:56] <ogra_> does it have omap4 ?
[09:56] <ogra_> shouldnt be to hard to derive from there
[09:56] <lool> that included lack of OMAP4
[09:56] <ogra_> bah, k
[10:29] <brandini> morning all
[10:31] <brandini> is com0 at 0x49020000 on the panda?
[10:38] <FunkyPenguin> aloha, does ubuntu build from a single source or do you have a separate one for arm vs x86?
[10:38] <FunkyPenguin> wondering if i look for a package in packages.ubuntu.com does that cover arm?
[10:46] <ogra_> most of the time, yes
[10:46] <ogra_> all packages use the same source, packages.u.c wont tell you if the binary exists though
[10:47] <ogra_> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ has a list of all failed builds
[10:48] <FunkyPenguin> ogra_: great, thanks
[10:49] <ogra_> you can also look on launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[11:38] <soren> What's the rationale behind that /var/lib/preinstalled-pool thing in Oneiric?
[11:41] <soren> What's worse is that the very first package I installed from there has a checksum mismatch :(
[11:44] <ogra_> that shouldnt happen, infinity ^^^
[11:44] <soren> The python-setuptools package I have in there is all NULLs.
[11:44] <ogra_> its what we ship as pool on the x86 server isos and should support installs without network
[11:44]  * soren checks the image
[11:45] <ogra_> right, compare your md5
[11:46] <soren> Image checksum matches.
[11:46] <ogra_> hmpf
[11:46] <infinity> Yeah, but does it match once you've written it to SD?
[11:47] <soren> That's what I'm about to find out.
[11:47] <soren> WEll... Sort of.
[11:47] <infinity> I can write an image out in a sec and have a look.
[11:47] <infinity> Where "in a sec" is "sometime this afternoon".
[11:47] <soren> I'll mount the image on my laptop and see if the problem exists there, too. Otherwise, it probably got screwed up when I wrote it to the SD.
[11:49] <soren> Nope, it's fine if I mount it on my laptop.
[11:49] <soren> Weird.
[11:49] <soren> No idea where it got scrwed up, then.
[11:49] <ogra_> hmm, porobably a kernel issue then... mmc driver or filesystem driver issue
[11:50] <soren> Most of the files in there seem fine.
[11:51] <ogra_> on your laptop...
[11:51] <soren> Just 9 of them have this problem.
[11:51] <soren> No no, on the SD card.
[11:51] <ogra_> if inserted in your laptop or in the panda ?
[11:51] <soren> Panda
[11:51] <ogra_> ah
[11:51] <ogra_> hmm
[11:52] <ogra_> bad SD ?
[11:52] <ogra_> i.e. some borked blocks that shouldnt have been written to ?
[11:52] <soren> No idea. It's brandh new. Just unwrapped it a couple of hours ago.
[11:53] <soren> dmesg is silent.
[11:53] <soren> (on this subject, I mean)
[11:53] <soren> Plenty of other stuff in dmesg.
[11:55] <ogra_> hmm
[12:03] <infinity> I could rant about SD/MMC quality again, but I seem to do that often enough.
[12:04] <infinity> While I think it's cool that we provide an SD grow-root installation method (and, indeeed, that's the simplest way for people to test their hardware and get started), I still think the goal should be to encourage people to get their system on reliable external storage ASAP.
[12:05] <infinity> And just use the SD for uBoot.
[12:06] <ogra_> or support boards with nand booting only :P
[12:06] <ogra_> we just need to convince vendors to put more money in :)
[12:07] <infinity> ogra_: I don't mind treating the SD slot as a hardwires flash/firmware area.  At the end of the day, the behaviour is the same.
[12:07] <infinity> ogra_: And that's what we do when we netboot, for instance.
[12:07] <infinity> It's also how my i.MX53 and Panda both run when they're at home.
[12:07] <infinity> s/hardwires/hardwired/
[12:08] <ogra_> infinity, right, thats also what we did on babbage ... though there we had the prob that we had to install to the livefs media while running from it
[12:21] <xranby> wow... i got opengl-es to work on my pandaboard using oneiric  and using the default package sources..  i simply installed every omap4 package and then it turned ON
[12:22] <xranby> i was expecting to get the packages from the ti ppa.. but they where already in main
[12:22] <infinity> *raise brow*
[12:22] <xranby> infinity: want a screenshot?
[12:22] <infinity> There's no way that's hardware accelerated if it involves nothing from TI.
[12:26] <xranby> infinity: http://openjdk.gudinna.com/lwjgl-es/pandaboard-LWJGL.png
[12:26] <xranby> running at 130fps
[12:28] <infinity> xranby: 130fps sounds like software rendering to me.
[12:29] <xranby> infinity: libEGL comes from the SGX omap 4 package
[12:29] <xranby> infinity: this are usning java -> opengl-es bindings
[12:30] <ogra_> infinity, es2gears in SW rendering on the ac100 gets me 20-30 frames
[12:31] <ogra_> i think its about 180 if accelerated
[12:34] <infinity> xranby: I can't find this package you're referring to.
[12:34] <xranby> infinity: let me try generate a list of installed packages
[12:34] <infinity> xranby: dpkg -S /path/to/file
[12:34] <xranby> are the some way to list the packages that got installed  today?
[12:34] <twb> Would that be the "benchmark" that has a --i-acknowledge-this-is-not-a-benchmark option?
[12:39] <xranby> infinity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/707964/    perhaps i got them from the ppa after all
[12:40] <ogra_> twb, i think that was dropped again at some piunt :)
[12:40] <ogra_> *point
[12:40] <infinity> xranby: "apt-cache policy packagename" will tell you where it comes from.
[12:40] <infinity> xranby: But yes, those aren't in the archive.
[12:41] <ogra_> well, we definitely dont ahve ubuntu-omap4-extra in any official archive
[12:41] <ogra_> and you have the sw-center added ppa .list
[12:42] <xranby> infinity: ok i can now confirm that they did come from the ppa
[12:42] <xranby> thanks ti
[12:42] <ogra_> :)
[12:42] <ogra_> send flowers to ndec and his team :)
[12:42] <xranby> ndec: cheers!
[12:42] <ogra_> (or probably better bottles of old wine)
[12:43] <twb> ogra_: well that's bloody stupid
[12:43] <xranby> ndec: i have lwjgl java bindings working on the pandabord using your latest oneiric drivers..
[12:43] <xranby> nice
[12:52] <ndec> yes, gfx libs have been in PPA for a while now. video decoders are coming soon...
[13:02] <xranby> ndec: ok meanwhile i have filed a bug against the LWJGL upstream to add support for all your drivers extensions http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4237.0.html
[13:04] <xranby> ndec: when i install teh libEGL and friens  all .so ends with .so.1   are this intentional?
[13:05] <xranby> the opengl-es userspace applications are looking for the  libEGL.so symlinks  and fails to find the library
[13:06]  * ndec thought we had fixed that.
[13:13] <ndec> xranby: yes, this is true the .so is only in the -dev package (e.g. libegl1-sgx-omap4-dev)
[13:14] <ndec> to me it's more a bug in the applications, ... but we've seen that in the past, and since we cannot change all applications, we need to update our package.
[13:14] <ndec> for now, you just need to install the -dev
[13:14] <xranby> ok thank you for checking
[13:14] <infinity> There's a longstanding history of bainry GL apps looking for .so instead of the actual library. :/
[13:15] <infinity> But we don't ship .so in any library package, for sanity reasons.
[13:15] <infinity> binary*
[13:16] <xranby> hmm i wonder why.. the brainy GL apps simply try to link againt EGL
[13:16] <xranby> 'to get into this state
[13:17] <xranby> -lEGL are passed tot he linker
[13:17] <xranby> and it makes the linker pick to use the .so
[13:17] <infinity> xranby: Err, wait.
[13:18] <infinity> xranby: You need the -dev (and the .so) to link...
[13:18] <infinity> But it should then link to .so.1
[13:18] <xranby> usually you can have EGL mesa installed to build it
[13:19] <xranby> so the app links against the mesa EGL -dev package
[13:19] <xranby> libegl1-mesa-dev - free implementation of the EGL API -- development files
[13:20] <infinity> I'm still not sure what your bug is here...
[13:20] <infinity> You need dev packages installed to compile.
[13:20] <infinity> But not to run.
[13:21] <infinity> If "ldd mybinary" shows that you've linked to an unversioned .so, that's certainly a bug (ie: if you need it at runtime).
[13:23] <ndec> we used to have wrong SONAME in our libs, but this is fixed. objdump -p /usr/lib/libEGL.so | grep SONAME will tell you libEGL.so.1 (and it used to be the .so). the soname is what the app will link against.
[13:23] <ndec> perhaps the mesa-dev package has wrong soname?
[13:23] <infinity> ndec: Almost certainly not. :P
[13:24] <infinity> (If it did, nothing on my system would work)
[13:24] <ndec> xranby: is your app dynamically linked against the .so, or do you have a dlopen to the .so . i think firefox does (did?) that
[13:25] <xranby> let me check
[13:32] <xranby> ldd at points to /usr/lib/libEGL.so   i guess that makes it dynamically link
[13:33]  * xranby are rebooting his board... for some reason the usb mouse/keyboard refused to enumerate
[13:39] <brandini> morning dudes
[15:43] <_Thomas> Does anyone here work with the ubuntu release for the Linaro Origen-board?
[15:43] <_Thomas> (I'm wondering if anyone knows the status of getting HW opengl on that board)
[15:44] <ogra_> _Thomas, as i said in the other channel, ubuntu-arm doesnt support the origen board
[15:46] <_Thomas> ok
[19:07] <stephen__> pandaboard: linaro image vs ti-omap ppa
[19:07] <stephen__> which is better?
[22:59] <brandini> so when I have the load address in uboot, is that looking for KERNEL_BASE_PHYS=0x80300000?