[00:22] <squidly> anyone have an issue where mythth loses all the cover art and stuff for your movies
[00:23] <tgm4883> squidly, no
[00:23] <tgm4883> multiple frontends?
[00:26] <squidly> tgm4883: no
[00:26] <tgm4883> hmm
[00:26] <squidly> I was tryign to fix mythweb
[00:26] <squidly> opened up videos and it said missing all cover art
[00:26] <squidly> and sence then boom
[00:26] <squidly> nada
[00:26] <tgm4883> thats odd
[00:27] <squidly> yea tell me about it
[00:28] <squidly> though it still show the cover art for things like tv seriies
[00:29] <williammanda> One question... concerning fanart, etc.... for recordings....
[00:29] <squidly> williammanda: what about em
[00:30] <williammanda> that was working on a slave backend / frontend...and now its not
[00:30] <williammanda> not sure what happened?
[00:31] <williammanda> I'm not setup for the new storage group since it can't play iso, etc...
[00:31] <williammanda> does that have anything to do with it?
[00:32] <williammanda> It works well on the master BE/FE
[00:56] <hads> If you aren't using storage groups then you need to share the directories to other frontends with NFS or some other network filesystem.
[01:41] <user_> i have been having a hard time getting mythtv to work ive tried mythbuntu 9.04 and 9.10 and i get it all installed I add the cards and video source but when I scan the channels it gets to channel 8 and freezes at 5% I have the hvr-1600 and an ati wonder pro card both have the same problem
[02:46] <wipeout> i think this hvr-1600 is a good card with the dual tuners and qam but i cant seem to get it to work anyone have a suggestion on a differant card with similar specs or a solution to get it to work?
[02:53] <whoDat_> where does mythfrontend get autostarted? can't seem to find where.
[03:06] <SteveG> I have to restart the backend on after a boot or mythtv-backend can not see my four PVR-150 cards.  In 9.10 where is mythtv-backend autostarted?  I did not see it in the rc2.d (Or any of the rc directories.)
[03:58] <rhpot1991> SteveG: its started by upstart
[04:08] <SteveG> rhpot19991: Thanks, Does upstart sequence the init.d scripts or just execute them all?
[04:17] <hads> SteveG: I remember seeing a bug someone was talking about where mythfrontned was starting before the devices were populated with udev. Perhaps that's the issue?
[04:17] <hads> whoDat_: It's started from ~/.config/autostart/
[04:18] <hads> SteveG: It involved adjusting the 'start on' line in /etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf
[04:25] <whoDat_> hads: where does xfce start?
[04:26] <whoDat_> I would think it would be in /etc/X11/xinit or /Xsession
[04:26] <whoDat_> but dont see it
[04:32] <superm1> /usr/share/mythbuntu/session.sh
[05:23] <styelz> can someone help me with installing mythstream on karmic?
[05:25] <tgm4883> styelz, download source, compile, install
[05:26] <styelz> i get this error when i make
[05:26] <styelz> http://pastebin.com/m5397571e
[05:26] <styelz> probably missing some package, not sure what one though
[05:27] <tgm4883> IIRC, you have to put it in the mythplugins source packages
[05:27] <tgm4883> is there not a readme?
[05:27] <styelz> oh, is that what that meant
[05:27] <styelz> heh
[05:28] <styelz> im being lazy
[05:28] <SteveG> hads: Thanks for the info.  Do you have any experience with customizing upstart scripts?  I have been trying for 30 mins to customize with little results.  I want to wait until ivtv is loaded/running to have mythtv-backend run.
[05:30] <tgm4883> SteveG, that seems like a good idea
[05:30] <tgm4883> file a bug?
[05:31] <SteveG> tgm4883
[05:31] <tgm4883> thats my name
[05:33] <SteveG> ;tmg4883: I wanted to solve it before I file a bug.  I have only been looking into upstart for 30 mins but I am not finding a huge amount of documentation.  I did find one post http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=723896 that had some info from a header fiel but I have not been able to get it 100% yet.
[05:34] <superm1> SteveG, you probably want to add something like "on started udev"
[05:35] <superm1> look at /etc/init/hal.conf
[05:35] <superm1> and check with the guys in #upstart too
[05:55] <superm1> SteveG, you can see it at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythtv/mythtv-fixes/annotate/head%3A/debian/mythtv-backend.upstart
[05:56] <SteveG> superm1: Thanks!
[05:56] <rhpot1991> I did a review on System 76's Meerkat Ion being used as a MythTV Frontend if anyone is interested: http://www.baablogic.net/drupal/node/2
[06:42] <superm1> SteveG, i'd be very interested if you come up with a solution for your ivtv pitfalls
[06:42] <superm1> be sure to file a bug if so :)
[06:45] <hads> That's interesting, I've got an IVTV card and don't see that.
[06:55] <superm1> he might just have faster hardware
[06:55] <Haffe> ION you say.
[06:56] <Haffe> Can I offload transcoding to the GPU as well?
[07:01] <superm1> not currently, i know that was one of the ideas thrown around though
[07:02] <Haffe> Ok.
[08:49] <badinf> !help
[08:49] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[10:19] <hads> This is an early Core 2 Duo so it's not too slow.
[10:20] <hads> I was going to say could depend on what's installed and starting at boot but I just remember that I reinstalled that slave backend the other day.
[16:34] <heretic> hi
[16:35] <Guest63830> does a backend only installation of mythbuntu fit on a 3gb partition?
[16:40] <superm1> Guest63830, it should
[16:40] <superm1> you'll need more space for recordings though...
[16:41] <Guest63830> yeah of cource, thx
[16:43] <Guest63830> is it possible to encrypt the system partition like on a normal ubuntu installation?
[16:49] <superm1> you can encrypt your home
[16:49] <superm1> but encrypting the system requires the alternate installer
[16:49] <superm1> which we dont support
[16:58] <williammanda> I have a question concerning storage groups...
[16:58] <williammanda> I setup two storage groups on the master BE...recordings and livetv
[17:00] <williammanda> do I need to setup the same two storage groups on the slave BE if I'm not using the new storage group function? I'm using .22 version but since it does allow viewing of iso, etc ... files I want to set it up like version .21
[17:01] <williammanda> does not allow
[17:02] <williammanda> the reason for the storage group question is that I'm trying to get the artwork working for recordings on the slave BE
[17:42] <cgregan> Hello All.....I was wondering if there was a particular remote control that was the most popular and the most highly supported?
[17:43] <cgregan> BTW - Just installed Mythbuntu 9.10 on an AMD-64 device......it all just worked. Great job!!!
[17:45] <superm1> cgregan, microsoft media center edition remotes are the best way to go
[17:45] <superm1> nearly all the buttons work OOTB
[17:46] <superm1> you can usually find them for about 30 bucks on newegg or amazon
[17:46] <superm1> thanks for the nice feedback :)
[17:46] <cgregan> superm1: Hmmm......Microsoft eh.......I would have to do some serious explaining to my FLOSS friends! :-)
[17:47] <superm1> hehe.
[17:48] <superm1> the remotes are quite ubiquitous which is one of the primary reasons they're so well supported
[17:49] <cgregan> superm1: Ok.....maybe I can just put a "Circle of Friends" sticker over the offending logos. Thanks :-)
[17:54] <williammanda> I have a question about nfs and mythtv directories
[17:56] <williammanda> I know if I want to have files on computer a to been seen on computer b.....
[17:56] <williammanda> I need to export computer A's files and use fstab on computer B
[17:57] <williammanda> well this doesn't need to be done with mythtv recordings file...correct?
[17:59] <williammanda> if so...is this because a storage group was setup?
[18:00] <williammanda> if so ...why is a recordings directory setup in export?
[18:04] <Parallx> what are the settings for audio trhough hdmi on mythbuntu?
[18:08] <tgm4883> williammanda, correct, no, I don't know
[18:09] <williammanda> lol ty
[18:10] <williammanda> ok if the recordings directory doesn't need it the livetv doesn't either correct?
[18:10] <tgm4883> williammanda, right
[18:11] <williammanda> another topic then....
[18:12] <williammanda> concerning the artwork...banner, coverart abd fanart....
[18:13] <williammanda> I have this working on the master BE bt not on the slave BE
[18:14] <williammanda> I have exported all the artwork directories on the master BE and setup fstab on the slave BE...anything else to do?
[18:14] <williammanda> sorry this is for the recordings
[18:15] <tgm4883> aren't those all in storage groups?
[18:17] <williammanda> sorry ....I'm setting it up for ver .21 since .22 won't work with iso and vob files
[18:17] <Parallx> where should I place my external video files for mythtv to see them?
[18:18] <tgm4883> mythtv 0.22 works with ISO's and VOB's, just storage groups does not
[18:18] <tgm4883> and 0.21 doesn't have support for fanart, etc for recordings
[18:18] <tgm4883> so wtf are you talking about?
[18:18] <williammanda> right ...I meant the storage groups
[18:19] <tgm4883> Parallx, /var/lib/mythtv/videos/
[18:19] <tgm4883> williammanda, what does iso and vob files have to do with recordings?
[18:23] <Parallx> mmm   I can''t see any
[18:23] <Parallx> No files found
[18:25] <williammanda> I was trying to give some information on where I was....
[18:25] <williammanda> start over then....
[18:25] <williammanda> I'm using .22 and I have setup mythtv as ver .21 storage groups...
[18:26] <williammanda> so to get the artwork for recordings to work on a slave BE....
[18:27] <williammanda> I have created the artwork directories on the slave using fstab and exported from the master BE...but I don't get any artwork for the reordings
[18:28] <williammanda> I can see that the files in the artwork directories on the slave BE/FE
[18:28] <tgm4883> williammanda, use storage groups
[18:28] <williammanda> for just the artwork correct?
[18:28] <tgm4883> and the recordings
[18:28] <tgm4883> but yea
[18:29] <tgm4883> just not for videos
[18:29] <williammanda> OK
[18:30] <williammanda> so I don't need the fstab entries on the slave BE/FE for artwork either correct?
[18:30] <Parallx> I can't find my videos anywhere
[18:30] <tgm4883> williammanda, right
[18:30] <tgm4883> Parallx, misplace them?
[18:30] <williammanda> ty I appreciate it
[18:30] <Parallx> on mythtv, I mean
[18:30] <tgm4883> williammanda, np
[18:30] <tgm4883> Parallx, what version?
[18:31] <Parallx> mythbuntu 9.10
[18:31] <tgm4883> Parallx, do you have ISO's or VOB's?
[18:32] <Parallx> mpg ?
[18:32] <tgm4883> ok
[18:32] <tgm4883> hit M, then scan for changes
[18:32] <Parallx> M => system menu
[18:32] <Parallx> shutdown, about, and cancel
[18:32] <tgm4883> ah
[18:33] <tgm4883> do you have mythvideo installed?
[18:33] <Parallx> yes
[18:33] <Parallx> apt.get tells me i have it
[18:33] <tgm4883> go into mythvideo
[18:34] <tgm4883> should be under media or something
[18:34] <Parallx> how?
[18:34] <Parallx> I'm really new in mythtv
[18:34] <tgm4883> what is listed on the menu you are on?
[18:34] <Parallx> Media Library, Watch video
[18:34] <tgm4883> go into media library
[18:34] <Parallx> ok got it now
[18:34] <tgm4883> whats listed in there?
[18:34] <tgm4883> you got it now?
[18:35] <Parallx> now i have another Q
[18:35] <Parallx> video works, audio doesn't
[18:35] <tgm4883> ask away
[18:35] <radioshack> does audio work outside of mythtv?
[18:35] <Parallx> on mplayer, I use ao=alsa:hdmi
[18:35] <Parallx> and works perfect
[18:35] <radioshack> fun times
[18:36] <radioshack> !hdmi
[18:36] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about hdmi
[18:36] <radioshack> hmm
[18:36] <Parallx> even if I use the -ac hwac3 to get DTS and dolby
[18:36] <Parallx> but I don't know how it should me done in mythtv
[18:36] <tgm4883> !sound
[18:36] <Zinn> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Sound_Troubleshooting
[18:37]  * Parallx is reading
[19:04] <Parallx> works now, thanks Zinn
[19:24] <Parallx> do I have to install something to be able to listen to music, I press play but i don't hear ogg nor mp3
[19:46] <Essobi> http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/11/https-ssl-attack-vector-discovered-fix-is-on-the-way.ars
[20:14] <jimknopf> hello together ... I need a little bit help with the new mythbuntu 9.10 version
[20:15] <jimknopf> with 9.04 everything was fine...with 9.10 I have no access to my video collection...everything is empty and I have trouble with my dvb-s skystar card :(
[20:16] <jimknopf> the music part is perfect
[20:16] <rhpot1991> jimknopf: did you check to see if the mythvideo is pointing towards your videos?
[20:16] <jimknopf> it's better than nothing ;)
[20:16] <rhpot1991> there is a storage directory setup for them at /var/lib/mythtv/videos
[20:16] <rhpot1991> you can map that elsewhere, or point mythvideo itself at files like you used to in older versions
[20:17] <rhpot1991> hopefully that didn't confuse you more :)
[20:17] <jimknopf> the new version is just a confusing ;)
[20:17] <jimknopf> my videos and music is on an external drive
[20:18] <jimknopf> the music is ok and the video part makes trouble
[20:18] <jimknopf> I think the mappings have to be fine
[20:19] <jimknopf> do you have an idea why my dvb-s decoder makes trouble in mythtv and works very well with kaffeine?
[20:20] <jimknopf> the sound of some channels is very bad and with kaffeine its ok
[20:28] <mrand> jimknopf: you'd need to google around for your particular model device and see if anyone else has reported trouble on it.  If not, it would be good to collect logs and submit them to the mythtv group.
[20:29] <jimknopf> ok
[20:29] <jimknopf> google is always the first I look for support
[20:30] <jimknopf> but I didn't find anything about 9.10
[20:30] <jimknopf> with 9.04 I didn't have trouble...maybe I will go back
[20:30] <mrand> 9.04 with 0.22 mythtv?
[20:31] <jimknopf> no...standard 9.04 mythbuntu
[20:31] <jimknopf> I think it was 0.21
[20:31] <mrand> Yes, 0.21 was "standard" on 9.04.
[20:31] <hads> What model card?
[20:31] <jimknopf> technisat skystar 2
[20:31] <hads> Should work, I have one here.
[20:32] <jimknopf> Techsan Electronics Co Ltd B2C2 FlexCopII DVB chip / Technisat SkyStar2 DVB card (rev 02)
[20:32] <hads> I have Rev 2.6d
[20:32] <jimknopf> yes..it works...but some german channel ... pro7, rtl and the other of this group have a very bad sound
[20:32] <hads> I doubt it's the card.
[20:33] <jimknopf> can't be..because kaffeine works fine
[20:33] <jimknopf> have to be a problem with the channelscan maybe
[20:39] <jimknopf> if I do a channel scan I use this parameter: frequence 12551500 Vertikal symbolrate 22000000
[20:41] <Parallx> is 0.22 working with DTS-HD?
[20:45] <jimknopf> I use the digital optical output
[20:46] <jimknopf> Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Device 970f
[20:46] <jimknopf> it's the gigabyte mainbboard MA785GMT-UD2H
[20:55] <rhpot1991> jimknopf: as far as your videos, verify they are in the correct directory or that a storage group is pointing at them, then hit m or i when in the videos section and make sure you scan for changes
[20:59] <jimknopf> that was it!
[20:59] <jimknopf> I'm an idiot ;(
[20:59] <jimknopf> I forgot the scan
[21:00] <jimknopf> thanks ... now I have only the problem with the tv card
[21:04] <jimknopf> I have one more question about the video section...is it possible to get german information?
[21:06] <hads> Check out the ofdb.py grabber
[21:08] <jimknopf> with the oldversion 0.21 there was a problem with ofdb.py
[21:08] <jimknopf> it is fixed in 0.22
[21:54] <henrik_> Anyone who know lircd and mce reciver?
[22:22] <MythbuntuGuest96> will the usb wintv-hvr950 work (pug and play)?
[22:42] <tgm4883> MythbuntuGuest96, I haven't tested 9.10, but last I checked you had to install the firmware for it
[23:04] <tyce> anyone use a mac mini (w/ apple bt keyboard) and manage to keep it working after upgrading to 9.10, .22?
[23:25] <hipitihop> anyone know how to stop usbhid grabbing my remote so I can try and get lirc going ?
[23:32] <superm1> you need an fdi rule hipitihop
[23:32] <superm1> take a look at the fdi file shipped in the lirc package for an example
[23:39] <hipitihop> superm1, not quite sure what you mean but googling thanks.... is the sample file already installed somewhere ?
[23:41] <superm1> hipitihop, look at "dpkg -L lirc | grep fdi"
[23:41] <superm1> that's the example file i'm talking about
[23:47] <tyce> how do you tell your .lirc/mythtv file that when you hold the button down, it means something dofferent?
[23:47] <tyce> *different
[23:48] <hipitihop> superm1, I see, /usr/share/hal/fdi/preprobe/20thirdparty/lirc.fdi  Would this be active or do you have to copy it somewhere once I set it up for my device
[23:52] <superm1> hipitihop, that's an active location, but you can copy it into /etc/hal/fdi/* after renaming it so its not ever overwritten by a package


[00:30] <cjlacayo> aloha
[14:08] <reya276> morning everyone
[15:01] <reya276> hey if I wanted to show my mom some pictures of my kids but I don't want to put them on Picasa or Facebook, could I use Ubuntu One to do this. If I share a folder would she be able to access it?
[15:02] <reya276> meaning from the web, like would she be able to go to a web address and see it
[15:04] <mhall119> reya276: if you make it public, she should be able to
[15:05] <reya276> ah ok cool
[15:05] <reya276> thanks
[15:05] <reya276> ok so I share it and make it public
[15:19] <zoopster> reya276: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/FAQ/CanIPublishFiles
[15:23] <reya276> zoopster, thanks
[15:24] <reya276> dang that is awesome
[15:25] <reya276> hey anyone use Banshee, and has it gotten any better in terms of system resources?
[15:48] <reya276> hey does anyone know how to upgrade the Andorid 2.1 OS to either 2.2 or 2.3?
[15:50] <itnet7> reya276: on a captivate?
[15:51] <reya276> yes
[15:51] <itnet7> I think you should receive the 2.2 over the air
[15:51] <itnet7> I am not sure if it's the same as with my phone
[15:51] <itnet7> but you can go to
[15:51] <reya276> nope the folks at ATT wont give me the darn update
[15:52] <reya276> you have a ATT Samsung Captive
[15:52] <itnet7> Oh, Okay, hold on a sec, my buddy has a captivate let me see what he did
[15:52] <itnet7> Mine is an evo
[15:52] <itnet7> htc
[15:52] <itnet7> but
[15:52] <itnet7> Did you root yours?
[15:53] <reya276> root? no I have it exactly as when I left the store with a few apps I installed but that is it
[15:53] <mhall119> zoopster: you available for lunch today?
[15:53] <itnet7> I am asking him to bring his phone by
[15:53] <itnet7> not sure if he's in the middle of something will let you know!
[15:54] <itnet7> hey there mhall119 !
[15:54] <mhall119> hey itnet7
[15:55] <reya276> ok
[15:55] <reya276> my task manager sucks on this phone it wont kill the apps I tell it to
[15:56] <itnet7> reya276: it seems as though you'll only receive 2.1 update 1
[15:56] <itnet7> If you want 2.2 you'll have to root it and add a custom Rom
[15:58] <itnet7> One of my other friends with a captivate has done it, if you want I can ask him for the links he used
[15:58] <reya276> ok how can I do that
[15:58] <reya276> yes please
[15:58] <reya276> hey in the mean time do you know of a good taks manager app I can use because the one that comes with the phone sucks
[16:00] <itnet7> What is the one that comes with phone called?
[16:02] <itnet7> Wow, there are so many of them in the market, I can't even recognize the one I used to use all the time
[16:04] <itnet7> I believe the one I've used is called, "Advanced Task Killer"
[16:07] <itnet7> reya276: http://theunlockr.com/2010/08/02/how-to-load-a-custom-rom-on-the-samsung-captivate-vibrant/
[16:07] <itnet7> This seems to have links for everything
[16:07] <reya276> itnet7, thanks
[16:08] <itnet7> I will find out later which Rom he used if I can get a hold of him, He's not here today at work
[16:08] <itnet7> this place is becoming like a ghost town
[16:08] <itnet7> ^ meaning my workplace
[16:09] <mhall119> it's that time of year
[16:09] <reya276> itnet7, ah you need a windows PC
[16:09] <itnet7> Yeah, that's the bad part about samsung phones
[16:09] <itnet7> and it's only to unroot process
[16:10] <itnet7> once you get passed that, you can do everything else in Linux
[16:10] <reya276> darn it, but the thing works so well with ShotWell and Rhythmbox
[16:10] <reya276> oh will that mess up my ability to use those two apps
[16:10] <itnet7> I am trying to find an alternate way
[16:10] <itnet7> for ya
[16:16] <reya276> itnet, oh no worries I have a VM on this PC, hey will I still be able to use my phone as a regular ATT phone?
[16:16] <reya276> meaning ATT wont know anything right
[16:16] <reya276> Also was the performance better for you
[16:21] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: dude how's it going
[16:23] <RoAkSoAx> /win/win 3
[16:37] <itnet7> RoAkSoAx: not bad and you? Leaving the building now for lunch... bbiab! :-)
[16:44] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ah lunch... u just reminded me im hungry lol!!!
[17:14] <reya276> wow, now I understand why is it that from a customers point of view people prefer to use an iphone rather than get something from these individual manufactures tied with a carrier such as ATT, the tech support and software update procedure is horrible. Why could they not just let google take care of all the OS updates.
[17:15] <reya276> jesus, I mean is a great phone but the update OS procedure is horrible
[17:41] <zoopster> heh...sorry mhall119 had to run some errands today
[17:43] <zoopster> reya276: you don't think the iphone update is horrendous? do they have OTA yet?
[17:44] <maxolase1squad> reya276: Comapring Android and iPhone doesn't always make sense.
[17:44] <maxolase1squad> Android is an OS.  An iPhone is a packaged device that includes a specific piece of software running on a specific piece of hardware, and for now, with a specific carrier.
[17:45] <maxolase1squad> I welcome the range of available devices that run Android.  It is to be expected that some implementations of Android are better than others.
[18:07] <zoopster> good point maxolase1squad - interesting post recently by Tim Bray about that subject on the android dev blog
[18:09] <mhall119> zoopster: no worries
[18:19] <klutz> Anyone know about evercookies?
[18:21] <mhall119> I've heard of it
[18:21] <reya276> zoopster, no I think you guys don't understand what I mean. I'm talking about from a users point of view for example right now I want to update my phone and I can't because ATT has to do it instead of Google taking care of it like apple does regardless about the damn thing being FOSS or not that is not what I'm talking about.
[18:21] <mhall119> klutz: see http://www.securityweek.com/nevercookie-eats-evercookie-new-firefox-plugin
[18:22] <mhall119> reya276: the difference is that Apple makes and sells the iPhone
[18:22] <mhall119> Google doesn't make or sell most Android phones
[18:22] <mhall119> Nexus is the only exception
[18:23] <zoopster> and the iphone update mechanism STILL is hateful at best
[18:23] <mhall119> in fact, most Android phones come with a version of Android customized by the OEM or carrier, which isn't something Google could update
[18:24] <reya276> LIke right now my brother has an iphone 3GS like I did, he went in to iTunes synced the phone then clicked update to new iOS 4.2 and it did everything for him, on this device I have to wait until ATT gets of their butts when Google should be the one making the updates for the OS regarless of the carrier or manufactures
[18:25] <itnet7> reya276: it's actually samsung
[18:25] <itnet7> btw
[18:25] <klutz> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=evercookie&cat=all&x=0&y=0
[18:25] <itnet7> not at&t
[18:25] <reya276> ah no when I click on Software Updates it connects to ATT not Samsung
[18:25] <itnet7> and that is why I chose an evo over the epic
[18:25] <reya276> and it actually tells me I have to wait 24hrs to connect again, LOL
[18:26] <itnet7> reya276: You're hitting AT&T servers to try and get samsung updates
[18:26] <reya276> I'm not knocking Android or anything like that because I love the phone and OS, is just the darn OS update procedure which is horrible
[18:27] <itnet7> samsung uses proprietary hardware and releases the kernels and their own rolled android
[18:27] <reya276> well is the phone not me
[18:27] <itnet7> version
[18:27] <itnet7> You're missing the point
[18:27] <itnet7> When I had a behold2 it was the same problem
[18:27] <itnet7> Though I was on T-mobile
[18:28] <itnet7> samsung was repsonsible to bring the phone to Anroid 2.1
[18:28] <itnet7> but they decided never to do that
[18:28] <itnet7> and they didn't release any new kernel updates so the community couldn't either
[18:28] <itnet7> That's why I left T-mobile
[18:29] <itnet7> it cost me $400.00 in Early Termination Fees
[18:29] <maxolase1squad> reya276: It is not the Android OS update that is horrible, it is the Android OS Update for your phone that is horrible.
[18:30] <maxolase1squad> The Android update process my phone is very simple.
[18:30] <maxolase1squad> Which is why you can't compare the iPhone's update process to the Android's update process. ... there is no Android update process.
[18:31] <reya276> I never said that Android OS was horrible, I'm talking about the manufactures update procedures
[18:31] <reya276> I love the OS better than the iphone 10 x fold
[18:32] <maxolase1squad> Right, you said the update process is bad.  But there is no Android OS update process to compare to the iPhone update process.
[18:32] <reya276> I just need to update it, but for some reason I can't get Vbox to pickup the device on WIndows XP
[18:32] <maxolase1squad> Oh man, I've helped a few people get the Windows drivers for their Android phones, so they could connect it and it was horrible each time.
[18:33] <reya276> maxolase1squad, ok If I buy a Phone which runs Android and I click on Software update should it not do that?
[18:33] <maxolase1squad> If you buy any phone and choose software updates, it should do just that.
[18:33] <reya276> specially if there is a new OS version regardless if its samsung, HTC or whatever. I'm talking about the OS
[18:34] <maxolase1squad> However, if that process is bad on your phone, it is not necessarily a reflection of Android.  It is just a reflection of the implementation for Android availabe for your phone.
[18:34] <reya276> wow jesus are you kidding me, no one said that it was Android OS fault, LISTEN
[18:34] <maxolase1squad> Your carrier provides those updates.  So if they suck, it is more likely because of something your carrier is doing wrong.
[18:35] <maxolase1squad> Ok.
[18:35] <itnet7> reya276: the vibrant, captivate, epic, and fascinate are all on 2.1
[18:35] <reya276> dude never mind
[18:35] <maxolase1squad> Sorry, wasn't trying to get heated. *hugs*
[18:35] <itnet7> all major carriers with galaxy s are waiting on samsung
[18:35] <itnet7> You're not alone
[18:36] <reya276> no one is saying that Android is the problem, I'm simply saying that the phone carriers and manufactures should streamline the update process and let google do it
[18:36] <itnet7> I am not trying to make you angry either reya276, it's just really not AT&T's responsibility
[18:36] <reya276> just like apple does that is all
[18:36] <reya276> not very complicated to understand
[18:36] <itnet7> Samsung is getting away with crapping on it's customers again
[18:37] <maxolase1squad> Well, that's really the point I was trying to make.  It shouldn't be up to Google to do these updates.  It is not the way Android works.
[18:37] <maxolase1squad> It's a completely different paradigm.
[18:37] <itnet7> I am glad that T-mobile taught me that lesson
[18:38] <reya276> ok if that is the way you want to look at it fine. I get all my Ubuntu updates from Canonical regardless of my hardware
[18:38] <reya276> And Google should do the same that is all
[18:38] <maxolase1squad> I could make a shoe, load Android on it, and sell it.  It would then be up to me to take care of my customers by providing updates.  That's the Android paradigm.
[18:39] <reya276> ok I bought a Dell Laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 I don't get updates from Dell I get them from Ubuntu is that clear enough
[18:39] <reya276> LOL
[18:40] <maxolase1squad> I understand your point.  In order for that to be a possibility with Android, every phone would have to ship stock Android.
[18:41] <maxolase1squad> I don' think Google even ships binary version of Android, but I could be wrong on this point.
[18:41] <maxolase1squad> I believe each manufacturer downloads the source, compiles it from source, and then applies their own tweaks.
[18:42] <maxolase1squad> Each of these implementations have their own customizations, making support from Google very difficult.
[18:43] <maxolase1squad> It's not that I think having a unified Android OS, that runs on select processors, that receives regular updates from Google would be a bad thing.
[18:43] <maxolase1squad> It's just that the way Android was designed, it is not feasible.
[18:44] <maxolase1squad> This would probably be easier if cell phones where not locked to carriers.
[18:45] <maxolase1squad> The tight integration between the iPhone OS, and the limited hardware that it runs on, is one of the iPhones strong point.  Apple can support it directly, and they only have one single piece of hardware to build it for.
[18:57] <maxolase1squad> Is there any way to keep Gwibber from appending 'is' before my microblogs?
[18:59] <maxolase1squad> s/appending/prepending
[19:06] <reya276> maxolase1squad, right that is what I meant that ideally that would be best if Google provided the updates just like Apple and Ubuntu do but they don't. And that is why I said that from a Customer point of view not us Tech Guys but Avg. Joe they would have an issue if they tried to update because like
[19:06] <reya276> I said before when I clicked on the software update I got nothing. But I totally understand why it can't be done and I agree. Manufactures screw us with no end in sight but that's nothing new LOL.
[19:07] <zoopster> I think it's the carriers that screw us
[19:07] <zoopster> so I buy unlocked phones now
[19:07] <zoopster> and manage my own updates
[19:07] <reya276> well that is what I'm trying to do now Thanks to itnet7 links
[19:07] <reya276> I just hope I don't break my phone in the process
[19:08] <zoopster> nah...it's pretty hard to brick a android based phone
[19:08] <reya276> ah cool
[19:08] <zoopster> i use cyanogen on my nexus...especially now that they have fm working
[19:09] <zoopster> i ordered a nexus s, since I broke my screen on the n1, but I think I can get it fixed so I might send the ns back
[19:09] <zoopster> btw...dell does have their own repos for their version
[19:10] <zoopster> but as with the android phone, you can manage the s/w yourself in anyway you wish
[19:10] <zoopster> can't do that with the iphone
[19:15] <maxolase1squad> zoopster: Does Google provide an easy update service with the Nexus S.
[19:17] <zoopster> maxolase1squad: not sure...likely the same as with the n1, but they really don't do many bug fixes
[19:17] <maxolase1squad> That's unfortunate.
[19:18] <maxolase1squad> It would be nice if Android offered their Android device that really was done just like Apple does the iPhone.
[19:19] <reya276> yeah it would, but rooting the phone seems just as good, plus I like the complete control stuff, granted not for non-techies although I found tons of videos of step by step how-tos
[19:24] <zoopster> but if you think about it...they do...each update is available for the n1
[19:47] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: still around?
[19:47] <itnet7> yes
[19:47] <itnet7> RoAkSoAx: ^
[19:53] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: pm
[19:53] <itnet7> of course
[19:55] <maxolase1squad> Is there a way I could do the equivalent of sudo aptitude purge evolution*
[20:05] <mhall119> maxolase1squad: in what?
[20:05] <maxolase1squad> The terminal.
[20:06] <maxolase1squad> I want to purge all packages that begin with evolution
[20:06] <mhall119> that doesn't work in the terminal?
[20:06] <mhall119> sudo apt-get remove --purge evolution*
[20:06] <mhall119> should work
[20:06] <maxolase1squad> Couldn't find any package whose name or description matched "evolution*"
[20:07] <maxolase1squad> That does it.  Thanks mhall119.
[20:07] <mhall119> I'm surprised aptitude doesn't accept wilecards
[20:07] <maxolase1squad> Ooohh, no that wants to remove much more than packages that begin with evolution
[20:07] <maxolase1squad> It's also trying to grab gnome-applets* gnome-panel* gnome-session* indicator-applet* indicator-applet-appmenu* indicator-applet-session* indicator-me* libedataserverui1.2-8* python-evolution*
[20:08] <maxolase1squad> And others
[20:08] <mhall119> hmmm
[20:11] <mhall119> maxolase1squad: those may just be meta-packages that depend on the evolution bits
[20:11] <mhall119> but I can't guarantee it
[20:14] <mhall119> actually,  maybe I can, let me run than on my VM
[20:16] <mhall119> maxolase1squad: okay....don't do that :(
[20:17] <maxolase1squad> ;)
[20:17] <mhall119> snapshots, FTW
[21:52] <reya276> itnet7, that page does not give you Android 2.2 I was able to root it and install a custom rom for captivate but it still has a 2.1_update1 version
[21:57] <itnet7> the 2.2 rom is a leaked rom
[21:57] <itnet7> I can see where he got it give me a sec
[21:58] <itnet7> http://tinyurl.com/25umruj
[21:58] <itnet7> I think this was the one
[22:00] <itnet7> He is no longer around at work today, I can e-mail him to make sure. Unless you just want to try it
[22:00] <itnet7> reya276: ^
[22:00] <reya276> thanks let me try it
[22:01] <itnet7> np
[22:02] <itnet7> !seen tiemonster
[22:02] <ubuntu-fl> itnet7: tiemonster was last seen in #ubuntu-us-fl 5 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <tiemonster> *severely
[23:54] <maxolase2squad> I have a C program that writes errors to stderr.  How can I peek into stderr?


[10:26] <ricotz> tseliot, hi :\, the gpu ppa is not a playground
[10:26] <tseliot> ricotz: oh, no, sorry, I uploaded to the wrong PPA
[10:26] <tseliot> that was meant for my GLVND ppa
[10:26] <ricotz> you dropped a bunch of transitionals and the 4.16 compat patch
[10:27] <tseliot> I used my sources, that's why
[10:28] <ricotz> tseliot, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/363210244/nvidia-graphics-drivers-390_390.48-0ubuntu0~gpu18.04.1_390.48-0ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz
[10:28] <ricotz> please revert it
[10:29] <tseliot> ricotz: sure, give me a minute
[10:34] <ricotz> tseliot, I will do it
[10:35] <tseliot> I am doing it
[10:36] <tseliot> ricotz: ^^
[10:37] <ricotz> tseliot, ok, then do it fast
[10:38] <tseliot> ricotz: I'll version it 390.48-0ubuntu1+gpu18.04.1, ok?
[10:39] <ricotz> no
[10:39] <ricotz> 1~ppa18.04.1
[10:39] <tseliot> ricotz: ok
[10:39] <ricotz> or if you don't intend to add a 4.16 then +gpu18.04.1 is better
[10:39] <tseliot> I'm reverting everything
[10:40] <tseliot> that upload wasn't meant for that PPA
[10:41] <ricotz> tseliot, ok, I could have uploaded/reverted it 5 mins ago
[10:42] <tseliot> ricotz: ok, do it then
[10:42] <tseliot> having a git repository would make things much easier
[10:42] <ricotz> pushed
[10:42] <ricotz> tseliot, this is ppa specific
[10:43] <ricotz> the 4.16 patch is a hack, the transitionals could be made official, but they would still clutter the packaging
[10:43] <tseliot> I'm not sure why having a branch for the PPA (and different releases) would be a bad thing
[10:44] <ricotz> this would not have made a difference in this case
[10:45] <tseliot> sure it would have. Git revert, update the changelog, upload, done
[10:45] <ricotz> I will let you known if there is a archive-worthy change
[10:45] <ricotz> but you would still had it uploaded to the wrong ppa
[10:46] <tseliot> sure, but it's easier to amend mistakes
[10:47] <ricotz> tseliot, btw, I used a tweaked version of the old packaging to xenial/artful to update 390 there with it new tarball layout
[10:48] <tseliot> ricotz: I'm going to rewrite the old packaging anyway, but I'll have a look at that too
[10:48] <ricotz> tseliot, you still intend the backport the new packaging?
[10:49] <tseliot> ricotz: yes, partially, though, since we won't have glvnd
[10:49] <ricotz> oh, so not real backporting to the multiarch'ed package?
[10:49] <ricotz> right, the gl-alternatives and glvnd are the tricky parts
[10:50] <tseliot> yep. I haven't quite figured out the details yet though
[10:51] <ricotz> tseliot, this is basically it -- https://paste.debian.net/plain/1018472
[10:52] <ricotz> so just the essentials to use the new tarballs
[10:52] <tseliot> right
[10:54] <ricotz> tseliot, I assume you are aware of https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/bionic/commit/?h=master-next&id=527d1e11406d4416fe4e0a79ca41a04414f25493
[10:55] <ricotz> dkms nvidia obviously fails currently due the missing of "scripts/ubuntu-retpoline-extract-one"
[10:56] <tseliot> ricotz: no, I didn't see that. Yesterday I came back from holidays
[10:57] <ricotz> ok
[10:58] <tseliot> ricotz: you said it fails now?
[10:59] <ricotz> yes, with 4.15.0-14.15, this commit will be included in the next build
[10:59] <tseliot> apw: ^^
[10:59] <ricotz> 4.15.0-14.15 is in -proposed
[11:00] <ricotz> he is aware and this mentioned commit is the fix
[11:00] <tseliot> oh, ok
[11:00] <apw> ricotz, yep, we know about that one, it is being applied to places as we speak
[11:00] <apw> all a bit of a mess
[11:00] <apw> luckily that kernel is only in -proposed and won't
[11:01] <apw> be going anywhere else soon
[11:01] <tseliot> good
[13:56] <mamarley> ricotz: The nvidia-390 package you uploaded earlier fails to build with 4.15.0-14 with "/bin/bash: ./debian/scripts/retpoline-extract-one: No such file or directory".
[13:57] <mamarley> It builds fine against 4.16.0 from the mainline kernel builds.
[14:00] <ricotz> mamarley, this is kernel package bug
[14:00] <mamarley> Ah, OK, sorry to bother you.
[14:01] <ricotz> mamarley, the upload was just to revert an accident
[14:01] <mamarley> I know, I read that part earlier.
[14:02] <ricotz> mamarley, ok, this bug was mentioned as well ;)
[14:19] <mamarley> I guess I didn't read it closely enough them.


[00:01] <slangasek> dx9s_work: so I have jackd from gutsy/hardy running now, with ardour-gtk from feisty (the last version that was built against an earlier jack), and I still don't know what I'm looking for
[00:10] <fbond> I may have gotten myself into a spot of trouble with my PPA: I used versions like 0.5.0rc5 for a package.  Now that I have 0.5.0 final, dpkg thinks it is older than the release candidates.
[00:10] <fbond> Can anyone offer advice?
[00:11] <Fujitsu> fbond: You should have used 0.5.0~rc5.
[00:11] <fbond> Fujitsu: Yeah, I learned that now.
[00:11] <fbond> Any ideas as to a way out?
[00:11] <fbond> Or should I just ask launchpad admins to wipe out the old packages?
[00:12] <Fujitsu> You could get the package removed manually, and upload the proper version, but people with it already installed won't get it upgraded.
[00:12] <fbond> Fujitsu: Lucky for me, I doubt that anyone has installed it :)
[00:29] <Fujitsu>  /win 3
[00:29] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[00:30] <StevenK> Fujitsu: /lose 3
[00:31] <Fujitsu> Quite.
[00:31] <somerville32> Can't you just use epoch?
[00:31] <Fujitsu> Epochs are to be avoided at all costs.
[00:31] <Fujitsu> They're not to be used lightly.
[00:32]  * somerville32 epochs Fujitsu
[00:32] <StevenK> 1:Fujitsu: Take that!
[00:33] <Fujitsu> Blerk, Freenode doesn't support epochs.
[00:33] <StevenK> You can't have : in nicks? Awww.
[00:33] <Fujitsu>  1:Fujitsu Erroneous Nickname
[00:37] <slangasek> Fujitsu: I dunno, I rather enjoy epoching the packages of maintainers in NMUs
[00:37] <StevenK> slangasek: You would.
[00:37] <slangasek> StevenK: it's the closest thing to a scarlet letter I can find in dpkg
[00:37] <Fujitsu> slangasek: Ooh, that sounds fun.
[00:38] <slangasek> "maintainer screwed up, EPOCH FOR LIFE"
[00:38] <somerville32> lol
[00:38] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[01:00] <TheMuso> c
[01:00] <TheMuso> argh
[02:02] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:03] <Fujitsu> bddebian!
[02:03] <bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
[02:10] <somerville32> Heya bddebian :)
[02:10] <bddebian> Heya somerville32
[02:40] <bddebian> OK damnit, what is the format of dh_makeshlibs -V foo (>= 1.x) ?
[02:42] <slangasek> like that but with quotes for the argument?
[02:43] <bddebian> Ah, it's quotes?
[02:43] <bddebian> For some reason the manpage is mangled on me
[02:43] <slangasek> it's standard shell parsing
[02:43] <slangasek> the argument to -V has spaces in it, so the spaces have to be escaped or quoted
[02:44] <bddebian> Aye, makes sense, thanks
[02:46] <bddebian> slangasek: Can I ask you a question?  Maybe in a PM?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> bddebian: no.  anyone who asks slangasek questions gets killed.
[02:51] <bddebian> Yeah, I kinda figured that
[02:51] <bddebian> BTW, Hi Hobbsee
[02:51] <Hobbsee> heya!
[02:55] <slangasek> bddebian: heh, go ahead
[02:56] <bddebian> Hmm, now I'm scared
[02:57] <slangasek> very few people ever die as a consequence of asking me questions
[02:57] <TheMuso> I would have thought they would grow.
[02:57] <bddebian> Is PM OK, I'd rather not air it here if that is OK
[02:57] <slangasek> that's fine
[02:59] <Hobbsee> slangasek: at least, those who do don't live to tell the tale..
[02:59] <joejaxx> lol
[03:00] <bddebian> Hobbsee: :-)
[03:10] <nenolod> hmm
[03:10] <nenolod> can i ask wtf is with audacious in MOTU? there has been a maintainer change from me and le_vert...
[03:14] <nenolod> or more accurately, audacious core is not touched in this way, but audacious-plugins is now maintained by MOTU media team
[03:14] <nenolod> which is a serious wtf o_O
[03:14] <joejaxx> nenolod: what was it before?
[03:14] <joejaxx> oh
[03:15] <Fujitsu> nenolod: How is that a wtf? audacious-plugins likely has modifications, while audacious won't.
[03:15] <joejaxx> yeah
[03:15] <joejaxx> -plugins has a ubuntu modification
[03:15] <nenolod> ah, right
[03:15] <nenolod> what is the modification?
[03:16] <joejaxx>      - Adjusted Conflicts/Replaces for Ubuntu
[03:16] <nenolod> oh, ok.
[03:16] <nenolod> but why does that need a maintainer change?
[03:16] <joejaxx> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/a/audacious-plugins/audacious-plugins_1.4.1-2ubuntu2/changelog if you want the full log
[03:16] <Fujitsu> Because Debian said we must change the maintainer on packages we modify.
[03:16] <nenolod> Fujitsu, oh. ok.
[03:30] <ScottK> leonel: I've discussed the new clamav with the Debian maintainer just a bit and the unrar code that was added is not DFSG free (for Debian or Ubuntu) and so will have to be removed.  We'll still have to use the free unrar library that's in the archive rather than the one provided.
[03:33] <nenolod> a friend of mine is writing another free unrar library
[03:33] <nenolod> i wonder how far he has gotten with that
[05:23]  * pwnguin wonders why meneame isn't in debian
[05:27] <pwnguin> on a related note -- anyone know why slash was dropped from universe?
[05:27] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: I note there are several hundred other packages that aren't in Debian.
[05:27] <Fujitsu> slash wanted PHP4, IIRC.
[05:27] <Fujitsu> And probably Apache 1 too.
[05:27] <Fujitsu> And was generally useless, uninstallable, etc.
[05:27] <pwnguin> heh
[05:27] <pwnguin> ouch
[05:29] <pwnguin> Fujitsu: in my experience, software i find not in debian have reasons for not being there. it's not a lack of manpower but legal power
[05:29] <pwnguin> meneame is affero licensed -- i figured perhaps there's a DFSG problem with it
[05:30] <Fujitsu> We have hundreds of packages in Ubuntu but not in Debian.
[05:31] <pwnguin> I don't see why you're giving me a hard time for being surpised
[05:38] <ScottK> pwnguin: I don't know if it's official yet, but I think Affero (we can make you distribute stuff) license will be OK in Debian.
[05:38] <ScottK> Personally, I think it's a corruption of the DFSG, but I don't get a vote.
[05:40] <pwnguin> ScottK: well, you're making software available for others
[05:40] <pwnguin> the means is just via html
[05:41] <ScottK> No, I'm providing a service.
[05:41] <slangasek> yes, only the ftpmasters get a vote. :)
[05:41] <ScottK> And agpl doesn't say anything about HTML.
[05:41] <pwnguin> i dont think anyone said it did
[05:41] <ScottK> If your mail client connects to my mail server and I modify something that's AGPL, then I have to distribute the code.
[05:41] <pwnguin> and you think this is somehow NOT dfsg?
[05:42] <ScottK> So what I run on my server is no longer just my business.
[05:42] <ScottK> Yes.  It forces distribution.
[05:42] <pwnguin> im not seeing how that's bad
[05:42] <ScottK> That's not freedom, it's coertion.
[05:42] <pwnguin> the freedom not to share code?
[05:43] <ScottK> Yes.
[05:43] <ScottK> Freedom not to share source I don't distribute binary for.
[05:43] <pwnguin> well, i think it's a bit bogus to write gpl software, release it and then watch people write additions for it without handing it back, dfsg or not
[05:44] <harrisony> Can someone give me a quick differnece bewteen Reccomends and Suggests (in debian/control)
[05:44] <minghua> I don't understand.  I fail to see how AGPL is more coercion than GPL already is.
[05:44] <ScottK> As it happens, I run all the custom software on my mail service after queue, so the mail client always talks to Postfix and it wouldn't matter, but I don't care to discolse all my tactics.
[05:44] <ScottK> minghua: The difference is that by the mere act of running code on my server, I may be forced to distribute source.
[05:44] <pwnguin> harrisony: read the debian policy document?
[05:45] <ScottK> GPL always dealt with distribution, not use.  It's a fundamental change.
[05:46] <minghua> ScottK: Okay I see your point.  But I still think "distribution" and "communication" is pretty close.
[05:46] <ScottK> As it happens, it's much harder to write code that's generally useful (and that I'd feel comfortable distributing) than a special purpose hack that meets my needs.
[05:46] <ScottK> So if I'd been forced to leverage off AGPL code instead of GPL code, I'd have either never started or started from scratch.
[05:46] <minghua> Just don't use AGPL software. :-P
[05:47] <ScottK> I don't intend to.
[05:47] <lifeless> till google run some ;-)
[05:47] <pwnguin> from my point of view, i think its a valid request from an author
[05:47] <ScottK> Right.  I don't expect they will either.
[05:47] <pwnguin> to say that they're some how not dedicated to free software anymore
[05:47] <ScottK> Request, yes.
[05:47] <pwnguin> heh
[05:47] <harrisony> pwnguin: i did say quick but i guess i can always get long
[05:48] <slangasek> I license all my code under the AGPL, and write it in splynethon
[05:48] <pwnguin> harrisony: its like three paragraphs if i recall (and i dont recall the specifics)
[05:48] <minghua> I don't think there are abstract "good" or "bad" licenses, only good or bad license for a particular software.
[05:48] <minghua> s/good or bad license/good or bad license choices/
[05:49] <ScottK> It's taken me a year of free time to replicate, in a generally useful way, code I wrote for my service (plus putting features others asked for first).  With AGPL I'd have never been able to do that.
[05:50] <pwnguin> because you have some hangup about the quality of code you publish being higher than the code you run on a network?
[05:50] <ScottK> No.  Because stuff that works for my specific use case may not be generally useful as is and requires documentation and stuff I don't personally need.
[05:51] <pwnguin> i didnt see a documentation requirement in the apl
[05:51] <ScottK> It's not a requirement of the license, but I won't distribute stuff that's not well done.
[05:51] <pwnguin> so its as i said
[05:51] <ScottK> So I guess I do have a hangup of not distributing stuff that's too opaque to be actually useful.
[05:51] <ScottK> Yes.
[05:52] <ScottK> So I'd rather be given the freedom to DTRT rather than be forced to immediately distribute something that no one else could actually use.
[05:53] <pwnguin> on the other hand, its clear there's plenty of people who don't bother ever
[05:53] <pwnguin> pligg / meneame has several people violating the license
[05:54] <ScottK> The other problem I see is that the only way you can check AGPL compliance is to look inside someone's server and see what they are running.
[05:54] <ScottK> I'd not be willing to open myself up for that either.
[05:55] <ScottK> With GPL, you have to be distributing something for compliance ever to come up.
[05:55] <pwnguin> true, enforcement's a pita
[05:56] <ScottK> So why would I take the business risk that some FSF equivalent of the BSA might show up some day and demand to audit the code on my servers.
[05:56] <ScottK> Ain't doing it.
[05:56] <pwnguin> that might be something the ftpmasters would entertain
[05:57]  * ScottK wonders if the FSF would favor DRM to detect AGPL violations?
[05:57] <pwnguin> how would that even work?
[05:57] <ScottK> Dunno.
[05:58] <pwnguin> drm works on the binaries, agpl works on the "hand out code" feature
[05:58] <ScottK> Tivo already has stuff to make the code not run if it's been modified.
[05:58] <pwnguin> right
[05:58] <ScottK> So it could note that modified code was run and then do 'something'.
[05:58] <ScottK> How else are they going to know?
[05:59] <pwnguin> the whole point is you're allowed to modify most all the code
[05:59] <ScottK> Yes, but you have to distribute it then.
[05:59] <ScottK> I'm not talking about preventing modification, but making the fact of the modification known.
[05:59] <pwnguin> oh well. if someone wants quality documentation, they can pay me to do it ; )
[06:00] <ScottK> Sure.  That'd be nice.
[06:03]  * ScottK heads to bed.
[06:03] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:04] <Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
[06:46] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:46] <gs42k0b> hi warp10
[06:47] <warp10> gs42k0b: :)
[06:48] <gs42k0b> is it normal to get daemon notifications send out on tty1 and not tt2 even though both are logged in as the same unprivileged user?
[06:48] <harrisony> gs42k0b: im pretty sure
[06:49] <gs42k0b> sure of what?
[06:50] <harrisony> "< gs42k0b> is it normal to get daemon notifications send out on tty1 and not tt2 even though both are logged in as the same unprivileged user?"
[06:50] <gs42k0b> then I owe someone an apology hehe
[06:51] <gs42k0b> so tty1 is receiving notification pr. default?
[06:54] <gs42k0b> notifications such as  *reloading syslog-daemon...
[07:01]  * gs42k0b thought they were just redirected to /dev/null
[07:15] <\sh> moins
[07:23]  * persia wonders what others think about a "merge" from a third-party repository for packages originally pulled in from the apt-get.org repo fun (way back when), vs. direct adoption of the package.
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[07:44] <\sh> hey dholbach
[07:44] <dholbach> hey \sh
[07:44] <dholbach> welcome jdstrand :)
[07:44] <\sh> just playing around with django...looks nicer then rails
[07:45] <\sh> jdstrand, at last...congrats and welcome to Castle GreyScull ,-)
[07:53]  * persia wonders why ¥sh is still skulking around the exterior walls
[08:25] <joejaxx> persia: :)
[08:26] <joejaxx> i wish people would give other people's irc nicks in email :P :D
[08:26] <joejaxx> jdstrand: if you are who i think you are congrats :)
[08:26] <\sh> metalgod__, yay...good to know that you are also a gentoo convert ;)
[08:27] <persia> joejaxx: LP is a conversion engine
[08:27] <\sh> persia, hmmm?
[08:28] <\sh> well, I start to defend the universe from next week on....
[08:28] <\sh> /dev/sda6             322G  4,3G  317G   2% /home
[08:28] <\sh> /dev/sda5              94G  1,3G   92G   2% /var
[08:28] <\sh> /dev/sdb1             466G  544K  466G   1% /mnt
[08:28] <\sh> should be enough space for having fun :)
[08:28] <joejaxx> persia: ah never though about that
[08:28] <joejaxx> \sh: lol
[08:29] <persia> ¥sh: Excellent: plenty of space :)
[08:29] <joejaxx> are there any services missing from ubuntu wire at the moment?
[08:29] <persia> joejaxx: How do you mean?
[08:30] <joejaxx> i guess not :P
[08:30] <joejaxx> well ubuntu wire is there to provide services to ubuntu developers
[08:30] <joejaxx> well motu that is
[08:32] <persia> joejaxx: Ask yourself a different question: what services do you want that don't exist?
[08:32] <joejaxx> that is kind of my question :)
[08:32] <joejaxx> to you all
[08:33] <persia> If there is a service that you want, then you might ask who could host it.
[08:33] <joejaxx> that is why i am asking you all :)
[08:34] <joejaxx> i cannot use it currently as i am not motu :P
[08:34]  * persia wants https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DeveloperWeatherReport and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/QAWebsite but isn't sure where they would be hosted.
[08:35] <persia> joejaxx: I don't know about everything, but most of the QA tools being hosted there should be useable by anyone.
[08:37] <joejaxx> the weather report one would be interesting to code
[08:44] <joejaxx> i wonder if i should code that or now
[08:44] <joejaxx> not*
[08:47] <persia> joejaxx: Best to get in touch with the people subscribed to the spec to check the status and see how you might help.
[08:49] <joejaxx> persia: :)
[08:53] <joejaxx> i need a terminal emulator like konsole but that is not konsole :P
[08:54] <harrisony> Another question, im packaging a package and the package should go in gnome but depends on a package in multiverse (gnome-video-arcade is a frontend for xmame)
[08:54] <dholbach> harrisony: then it'll live in multiverse too
[08:55] <harrisony> dholbach: :)
[09:40] <huats> moring all
[09:52] <geser> morning huats
[09:54] <huats> hello geser
[10:31] <dholbach> persia: maybe you can take a look at bug 175018 - I've no idea how to deal with that huge interdiff
[10:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175018 in strongswan "strongswan: New upstream release 4.1.9" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175018
[10:32] <persia> dholbach: Sure.  I'll hit it later.  http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/process-interdiff might help.
[10:32] <persia> (needs work)
[10:34] <imbrandon> interdiff used in a new upstream release?
[10:34] <imbrandon> wow this is getting interesting
[10:34] <imbrandon> when was it decided and where that we prefer interdiffs anyhow ?
[10:34]  * imbrandon certainly never used them upto now
[10:34] <persia> About a month back.
[10:35] <imbrandon> i'll see if i can find the ML, i'd like to bring it up in the next MOTU meeting that we abolish them, its an unnneeded step that isnt even workable in most situations
[10:36] <persia> imbrandon: Already on the agenda.  I disareee about it be being unnecessary.
[10:50] <imbrandon> ugh
[10:50]  * imbrandon needs a faster build box
[10:51] <imbrandon> anyone seen that dell guy arround ?
[10:54] <Riddell> nxvl: are you using the KDE 4 RC 2 PPA?
[10:57] <imbrandon> moins Riddell
[11:10] <chakinou> hello! i'am looking for any information in order to help me on the right way to package an eclipse plugin?? does someone can help me?
[11:11] <proppy> oy
[11:18] <chakinou> maybe i'm not in the right channel? so please tell me which one is the right one.
[11:18] <geser> chakinou: are there any other eclipse plugins packaged where you can look how they got packaged?
[11:19] <txwikinger2> chakinou: look at an existing eclipse plugin package hwo it is done there
[11:19] <chakinou> yes i've done it, but i can't understand why and how we compile it
[11:19] <chakinou> in the rule file
[11:21] <txwikinger2> Look at the packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[11:21] <txwikinger2> There are some pointers.. it depends what apcakging system is used
[11:21] <dholbach> PackagingGuide/Basic probably
[11:31] <chakinou> ok thanks, i gonna work by my own, and i'll comme back when i have more specific questions! see you!
[11:41] <imbrandon> hrm
[11:41] <imbrandon> anyone running a hardy gnome desktop wanna help me verify a bug, shouldnet need to install anything just preform a simple action
[11:42] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, sup?
[11:42] <imbrandon> put a jpg on the desktop, right click on it and use "open with image viewer" ( eyeofgnome ) , it takes two times every time
[11:42] <imbrandon> to actuialy open
[11:42] <DarkMageZ> confirmed
[11:43] <imbrandon> gah thats buggin the hell out of me, time to track it down
[11:43] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: WFM.
[11:43] <imbrandon> i thought it was just me
[11:43] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: wfm?
[11:43] <imbrandon> ohh
[11:43] <imbrandon> works for me
[11:43] <Hobbsee> yup
[11:43] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: hrm it dosent take two times to open up?
[11:44] <imbrandon> i just tried it on two seperate boxes here .... hrm
[11:44] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope.
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Works for me too.
[11:44] <DarkMageZ> it's random. some days it works some days it doesn't
[11:44] <imbrandon> strange
[11:45] <DarkMageZ> i'll keep thinking about what i'm doing to cause it tho.
[11:46] <imbrandon> yea me too, i'll see if i can find something in common
[11:46] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: compiz?
[11:46] <imbrandon> nope
[11:46] <imbrandon> this si the p200
[11:46] <imbrandon> so nothing fancy
[11:46] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: ?
[11:46] <DarkMageZ> no compiz here either.
[11:46] <Hobbsee> tha'tll be why, i expect.
[11:46] <imbrandon> possibly
[11:46] <DarkMageZ> pff, compiz only breaks things. doesn't fix.
[11:46] <imbrandon> i dont see how but thats a common thread if Fujitsu is running compiz
[11:46] <Hobbsee> although, opens here now
[11:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: he is
[11:47] <imbrandon> hrm
[11:48] <imbrandon> btw i got my bday present early heh ( my 29th bday is tomarrow )
[11:48] <imbrandon> a decient digital camera ( 5.1 mp )
[11:48] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:49] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh so now i can toss my daughters 0.3mp out lol
[11:55] <StevenK> Hurrah!
[12:02] <imbrandon> StevenK: the diffrence ( with almost the same pic ) old: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2114/2100517350_6e32a9052f_o.jpg  and new http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2120435926_f7e16bf121_o.jpg
[12:02] <imbrandon> totaly diffrent
[12:04] <imbrandon> the camera messed up on the first one because there was no mtdew :)
[12:10] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I prefer the old one.
[12:10] <imbrandon> heh
[12:10] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, what's that wallpaper on the screen :P
[12:11] <imbrandon> one i made
[12:11] <imbrandon> one sec, i'll post it somewhere
[12:11] <DarkMageZ> also mountain spew near an open case?
[12:11] <imbrandon> err actuly i think its in my flickr
[12:11] <imbrandon> one sec
[12:12] <imbrandon> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2092312453&context=set-72157603393803422&size=o
[12:12] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ^^
[12:12] <imbrandon> thats the wallpaper
[12:12] <mruiz> hi all :-)
[12:13] <imbrandon> hey mruiz
[12:14] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: the other one was better.
[12:14] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: what other one ?
[12:14] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: aren't you the one who had a crack theme?
[12:14] <Hobbsee> the ms XP one?
[12:14] <imbrandon> ahh yea
[12:14] <Hobbsee> with the my little ponies background?
[12:14] <imbrandon> i have a xp therem on one
[12:14] <imbrandon> yup
[12:14] <imbrandon> and an osx theme on another
[12:15] <imbrandon> actualy i lost that ponies walpaper ;(
[12:15] <emgent> someone know if there are ubuntu motu in Rwanda?
[12:18] <imbrandon> no idea
[12:19] <imbrandon> you could probably get a close estimate looking at timezones of MOTU in lp
[12:19] <imbrandon> only way i can think of
[12:20] <DarkMageZ> appears to be no Rwanda loco team. (based off wiki.ubuntu.com)
[12:21] <zul> morning
[12:21] <Hobbsee> heya zul
[12:22] <zul> Hey Hobbsee how goes it?
[12:23] <Riddell> nxvl: do you have nessus installed?
[12:23]  * Hobbsee didn't shoot customers.
[12:23] <effie_jayx> mruiz, ping
[12:24] <mruiz> effie_jayx, pong
[12:24] <mruiz> heya imbrandon :-)
[12:44] <mruiz> heya dholbach , persia , ScottK , geser , TheMuso
[12:44] <persia> mruiz: Hi!  (package, package)
[12:44] <mruiz> :-)
[12:48] <persia> ember: Why is bug #176493 invalid?  Doesn't it still need a DIF exception?
[12:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176493 in transmission "Please sponsor transmission 0.96 into Hardy" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176493
[12:48] <metalgod__> siretart: ping
[12:49] <persia> metalgod__: You'll get a better response with some context :)
[12:49] <metalgod__> :)
[12:55] <siretart> metalgod__: please don't do contentless pings
[12:55] <siretart> better don't do pings at all on irc
[12:55] <metalgod__> siretart: sorry i'm used to other places :)
[12:56] <metalgod__> siretart: mind if i pm ?
[12:56] <siretart> depends on the topic :)
[12:57] <mruiz> can someone take a look of bug 176714, please? I don't know if I need a DIFe for this merge...
[12:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176714 in vpnc "Please merge vpnc 0.5.1r254-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176714
[13:06] <persia> mruiz: You do need a DIFe, but as you've put it in the sponsors queue, the reviewing sponsor will likely grant or reject it.  To increase the chances of approval, you might want to test network-manager-vpnc and kvpnc against the updated version, and indicate if they need any update to match.
[13:08] <persia> mruiz: For any DIFe request, you can get a list of applications that likely need to be tested with `apt-cache rdepends <package>`.  Not all require testing, but it's a good idea to at least describe how the update doesn't affect them, or add bug tasks for them if it does, and add the necessary changes to preserve integration.
[13:11] <mruiz> thanks persia ... I'll find out about it
[13:12] <persia> mruiz: Thanks.  It's a bit more work than merges were last week, but checking the details is the best way to make sure that hardy is really solid enough to last 5 years.
[13:13] <mruiz> persia, that's the idea ;-)
[13:14] <persia> mruiz: Also, please don't be afraid of DIF exceptions: If Debian fixes something important, it's better to request an exception than leave the bug :)
[13:14] <jdstrand> dholbach, \sh, joejaxx: re: motu -- thanks! :)
[13:15] <dholbach> jdstrand: ROCK ON! :-)
[13:16] <jdstrand> dholbach: thank you for you kind words during the application process as well :)
[13:16] <mruiz> congrats jdstrand
[13:16] <dholbach> jdstrand: you know it's true :)
[13:17] <jdstrand> mruiz: thank you :)
[13:17] <jdstrand> dholbach: ;)
[13:23] <pochu> jdstrand: congrats!
[13:23] <jdstrand> pochu: thanks! :)
[13:28] <mruiz> persia, it would be important to add more information about DIFe to the documentation
[13:30] <persia> mruiz: DIFe was invented last week :)  If you'd like to document it, I'd be happy.  Feel free to ping me with any draft, or ask for any clarifications.
[13:36] <slytherin> is there anyone here from apache project?
[13:37] <zul> have you tried #apache?
[13:37] <slytherin> zul: Actually I just wanted to know if any apache developers are maintaining any packages in Ubuntu.
[13:38] <zul> slytherin: check #ubuntu-server
[13:38] <persia> slytherin: Even for that, their channel is a better place to ask.  We don't know (and #ubuntu-server might be more likely anyway)
[13:38] <slytherin> zul: I frankly don't understand why they decide to publish .tar.gz in different format for every application. It is pain to try to repackage the .orig.tar.gz everytime. :-(
[13:40] <persia> slytherin: If you're repacking all the tarballs, you likely also want to get in touch with the Debian maintainers, so as to use the same tarball in common for both distros.
[13:40] <slytherin> I have been working on batik package for more than a week. Now I have figured out what all I need to get latest version in Ubuntu. I will have to first package another library. And this libraries tarball doesn't have a root folder of the form package-version. :-(
[13:42] <imbrandon> slytherin: dpkg extracts it into the proper place
[13:43] <persia> (in most cases: dpkg isn't magic, just very, very smart)
[13:43] <imbrandon> :)
[13:44] <imbrandon> hrm i have eeepc money in my hand or rent, darn rent wins
[13:44] <imbrandon> :( hehe
[13:44] <slytherin> imbrandon: what do you mean extract in proper place? What if the structure of tar.gz is like this. It has 2 directories javax and org and a bunch of readme and license files in root itself.
[13:45] <imbrandon> slytherin: sure then dpkg will extract it to <package>-<version>/javax etc
[13:45] <imbrandon> or *should*
[13:45] <imbrandon> its pretty smart
[13:45] <slytherin> imbrandon: where am I supposed to create debian directory?
[13:46] <imbrandon> in <pacakge>-<version>/debian
[13:46] <imbrandon> just as with anything else
[13:46] <imbrandon> ( but not in the orig.tar.gz
[13:46] <imbrandon> )
[13:47] <slytherin> imbrandon: Can you please try downloading 'xml commons external' from http://xml.apache.org/mirrors.cgi extract it and then explain me what exactly to do.
[13:48] <imbrandon> maybe not "exactly" but i'll get you going in the right direction, i must leave soonish
[13:48] <imbrandon> to pay some bills
[13:48] <imbrandon> downlaoding , one sec
[13:50] <sommer> hey all, I just wanted to double check is this the "official" packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[13:51] <persia> sommer: Best there is right now: please excuse us whilst we redecorate.  There are more slick looking ones in other places, but they aren't as up to date.
[13:52] <sommer> persia: cool thanks
[13:53] <persia> slytherin: Quick overview: make a directory of the name it should be, unpack in there, make a debian directory in there, put the tarball in the parent, add a blank copyright, a rules with a clean rule doing nothing, a changelog entry, and a control file.  Try building the source.
[13:53] <slytherin> persia: Ok.
[13:54] <persia> slytherin: If it succeeds, dpkg is smart enough you don't need to repack.  If it fails, watch for imbrandon's upcoming step-by-step guide.
[13:54] <imbrandon> slytherin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2835/
[13:54] <slytherin> :-)
[13:54] <imbrandon> there is step-by-step
[13:55] <imbrandon> i just did it to make sure it all worked
[13:55] <imbrandon> persia: please look too to make sure i dident overlook something
[13:56] <slytherin> imbrandon: I will try persia's suggestion first and if it doesn't work then yours.
[13:57] <persia> imbrandon: The unpack procedure, but I don't know if dpkg will be able to pack & unpack: that might require more hints (and I'm not very familiar with dpkg hints: I generally use other people's orig.tar.gz files)
[13:57] <persia> s/procedure/procedure looks right/
[13:57] <imbrandon> slytherin: ok just fyi you should still note it, thats the "proper" way to repack something
[13:58] <imbrandon> persia: yea it should be fine
[13:58] <imbrandon> okies i must run to pay a few bills, back in a bit
[13:58] <persia> imbrandon: Actually, you're ungzipping & regzipping, which changes the md5sum.  Maybe I don't like it so much.
[13:59] <imbrandon> persia: not the tar
[13:59] <imbrandon> err true
[13:59] <imbrandon> i followed the bz2 way
[13:59] <imbrandon> a simple rename would have worked i guess
[13:59] <persia> imbrandon: :)
[13:59] <imbrandon> since it was tar,gz to start
[13:59] <imbrandon> thats what i do for bz2 and zip archives
[14:00] <imbrandon> anyhow yea a rename would have worked
[14:00]  * imbrandon runs
[14:01] <dfiloni> persia: what Salvatore Palma should do to fix bug #172588?
[14:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172588 in atanks "[atanks] no .desktop file " [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172588
[14:02] <persia> dfiloni: Thanks for your patience.  I still think you would have done better to ask someone else in the past 42 hours, but looking now :)
[14:03] <dfiloni> persia: no, I didn't have time... sorry
[14:04] <persia> dfiloni: If it was because you didn't have time, no need to apologize.  I'm actually glad to hear you haven't been waiting whilst I did other things (as I did ask you to wait at least 39 hours when you last asked me :) )
[14:05] <dfiloni> persia: at school all day I have a test....
[14:05] <dfiloni> persia: by the way, can you say me what totopalma should do exactly?
[14:06] <persia> dfiloni: OK.  1) The package uses dh_install, so the desktop file should be installed by adding an entry to debian/atanks.install instead of adding a new call in debian/rules.  2) The patch deletes the icon installation line, which means that the installed menu item won't have an icon, but the .desktop file is looking for an icon.
[14:06] <dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
[14:07] <persia> dfiloni: Do both of those make enough sense, or do you need more detail?
[14:07] <dfiloni> persia: no thanks
[14:07] <persia> dfiloni: Thanks for helping totopalma with this :)
[14:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:08] <totopalma> persia, thanks :)
[14:10] <dfiloni> persia: do you know any website as ppa?
[14:10] <persia> dfiloni: Could you rephrase?  I don't understand the question.
[14:11] <dfiloni> persia: ppa builds sources, I need another website which can build my sources
[14:13] <persia> dfiloni: I don't know.  I build locally with sbuild.  There are a couple build farms out there: you might try asking generally during each of Asia, EU, and Americas days.
[14:13] <dfiloni> persia: ok
[14:23]  * persia becomes convinced nobody actually reads email footnotes
[14:28] <slytherin> persia: Followed your method. debuild build source package for me, libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04-0ubuntu1.tar.gz but it also contains debian directory
[14:29] <persia> slytherin: Did you have a renamed (not repacked) libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04.orig.tar.gz in the parent directory when you called debuild -S -sa?
[14:30] <slytherin> persia: No there is no .orig.tar.gz anywhere.
[14:31] <persia> slytherin: That's the problem then.  Delete the .dsc & libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04-0ubuntu1.tar.gz, download the tar.gz from upstream.  Rename it to the right name.  Then run debuild -S -sa again.
[14:31] <slytherin> ok
[14:39] <slytherin> persia: Can you check this and tell me if and what I am missing? http://paste.ubuntu.com/2836/
[14:39] <mruiz> ping effie_jayx
[14:39] <broonie> aa/win 19
[14:40] <persia> mruiz: You'll get a better responce if you provide some context.
[14:40] <persia> slytherin: That doesn't tell me much.  Try lsdiff -z on your diff.gz, and try unpacking the .dsc to see if you got what you wanted.
[14:41] <slytherin> persia: ok
[14:41] <mruiz> effie_jayx , PM
[14:41] <persia> mruiz: That's even more annoying, as it only serves to indicate to the rest of us that you're not saying something :)
[14:42] <mruiz> persia: I'm just want to know if effie_jayx is there
[14:44] <slytherin> persia: I think I am getting what I want. Thanks for help.
[14:44] <persia> mruiz: Sure, but if someone is busy, and responds to a highlight, and there's nothing, it's inconvenient for them, and they have to expect you to be monitoring closely when they say "what", and then you have to respond.  In the second case, you've likely already triggered notification in their client, so it just makes them check two places.  Anyway, it's not terribly important.
[14:44] <persia> slytherin: No problem.  Good luck with it.
[14:44] <mruiz> persia, finally he woke up :-)
[14:45] <mok0> Bug #164706
[14:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164706 in xtide "Please merge xtide_2.9.3-3 from debian " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164706
[14:46] <mok0> persia: How do I obtain an DIF exception?
[14:46] <mok0> s/an/a
[14:47] <persia> mok0: 1) Check to make sure the update doesn't break the rdepends (tcd-utils, education-astronomy).  2) Subscribe the sponsors queue.  Your sponsor will grant the DIF exception, but is more likely to do so if you can show it doesn't break anything.
[14:48] <mok0> persia: I don't understand in what way it could possibly break anything
[14:48] <totopalma> RainCT, hi :)
[14:48] <mok0> persia: i.e. I don't know how to check that
[14:49] <persia> mok0: Maybe it can't.  I didn't check.  I suspect education-astronomy is a meta-package, in which case it wouldn't matter.  I have no idea why tcd-utils is listed in the rdepends.
[14:49] <mok0> persia: /me is checking
[14:49] <persia> mok0: The only point is that while you might be granted a DIF without checking, you're more likely to get one (especially as we get further away from DIF) with a little research.
[14:49] <persia> mok0: Thanks for checking :)
[14:51] <mok0> persia: I suspect tcd-utils has the dependency because you have nothing to use it for if you don't have xtide installed
[14:52] <mok0> persia: and I think you are right: education-astronomy is a meta package
[14:53] <persia> mok0: In that case, I'd recommend testing tcd-utils with the new xtide to make sure it still works.  If it does, then note that in a comment (along with the results of the education-astronomy investigation).
[14:53] <mok0> persia: ... and send it in an email to...
[14:53] <mok0> ?
[14:54] <persia> mok0: Just put it in the bug comment so that your sponsor can see it.  Your sponsor will either grant the DIFe, or tell you why they don't think it needs a merge yet.  If Debian updates again, you can reapply.
[14:54] <mok0> persia: ok
[15:02] <RainCT> totopalma: hi
[15:03] <persia> RainCT: Good catch on tmda debhelper :)
[15:03] <RainCT> persia: thanks :)
[15:05] <mok0> persia: Just remembered that I've made a modification to the package that requires a patch to xtide-data.
[15:05] <mok0> persia: the debian maintainer agrees that it is a good idea
[15:05] <persia> mok0: Do you want me to unsubscibe the sponsors whilst you attend to that?
[15:06] <mok0> persia: the question is: can I patch xtide-data so it works, or do I revert the change?
[15:06] <persia> Also, if Debian is doing things, it might be worth waiting for that to complete, and then requesting the smaller merge / sync (if you know the timetable will complete soon enough to get it tested properly for hardy)
[15:07] <mok0> persia: I'm not sure what his plans are
[15:07] <mok0> persia: I can ask
[15:07] <persia> mok0: If you can, you may.  I'd add a new bug task to the same bug so as to make it clear the two should be sponsored together.
[15:07] <mok0> persia: just in the comment text?
[15:07] <persia> mok0: If you're already working closely, asking is good.  If you're not, fixing in Ubuntu and letting the Debian maintainer know you're happy to collaborate is good, but don't block on something if you're not already integrated.
[15:08] <persia> mok0: Bug tasks are managed at the top of the bug.
[15:08] <mok0> persia: ok
[15:08] <mok0> persia: why don't you unsubscribe u-u-s then
[15:08] <persia> mok0: Which bug again?
[15:08] <mruiz> bye all... see you later!
[15:08] <mok0> Bug #164706
[15:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164706 in xtide "Please merge xtide_2.9.3-3 from debian " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164706
[15:09] <persia> mok0: unsubscribed.  Don't forget to resubscribe when you want to request the DIFe & upload.
[15:10] <mok0> persia: ok
[15:22] <chakinou> i'm wondering, can we use dpkg-deb to create "universe to become" package?
[15:23] <persia> chakinou: Yes, but you'll have an easier time getting it accepted if you use debhelper or cdbs & debuild or dpkg-buildpackage.
[15:24]  * persia seeks another strategy to avoid the pressure of Dunbar's number
[15:25] <chakinou> thanks! the point is i packaged plugins for eclipse, so they only depends on if eclipse is installed or not, so it's realy easy to package them with dpkg-deb
[15:27] <chakinou> does the rule file is mandatory?
[15:29] <persia> chakinou: Yes, the mandatory files are changelog, control, copyright, and rules.  If you're just installing some files without compilation or modification, it's pretty simple.  For Java, it's usually better to recompile the .jar files just to be sure that the distributed binaries match the distributed source.
[15:32] <chakinou> ok! so the point is to follow these advices i think : http://java.debian.net/building.html
[15:33] <persia> chakinou: That looks like a reasonable reference.  Ask here if you get stuck.
[15:39] <chakinou> persia : thanks for your advices! i'm pleased to see people sharing their wisdom :)
[15:41] <persia> LucidFox: About merging from d.m.o.  Could you share your thoughts on why it's better to merge than to manage the package within Ubuntu?
[15:43] <LucidFox> persia> Avidemux has been merged before
[15:43] <LucidFox> In fact, since its very inclusion into Ubuntu
[15:44] <LucidFox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+publishinghistory
[15:44] <persia> LucidFox: OK.  Do you have sufficient confidence in d.m.o that you believe it's a good merge source?  I only ask because I'm unsure whether we want to maintain our own, or pull from external when we're handling the packages pulled in back when we grabbed from the repos listed at apt-get.org
[15:46] <LucidFox> Yes, I have sufficient confidence. Marillat is very responsive and merges Ubuntu changes back. Last time he did it for qdvdauthor.
[15:47] <persia> LucidFox: Excellent.  That's always good.  I just wanted to check to make sure that you weren't blindly following the Origin: header :)
[15:47] <siretart> bug #177154
[15:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177154 in cdrtools "cdrtools is undistributable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177154
[15:50]  * persia wishes for a new, free, popularly supported ~5GB storage media with ubiquitous devices and PD implementation code.
[15:51]  * bddebian wishes for a brain
[15:52]  * persia gives bddebian a certificate indication effective demonstration of lintian report resolution, a bright robe, and a fancy square hat with colored tassels.
[15:52] <persia> s/indication/indicating
[15:53] <bddebian> heh
[15:53] <geser> Hi bddebian
[16:03] <bddebian> Heya geser
[16:11] <LucidFox> Also regarding avidemux, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux can be archived now
[16:23] <verb3k> guys I have a simple python  script and I want to package it but don't want to go into those packaging guide which go in the very details, can someone give me a very simple tutorial or way of doing that , thanks in advance
[16:28] <LucidFox> verb3k> Did you write the script yourself?
[16:28] <verb3k> LucidFox, yes
[16:29] <bluekuja> verb3k, for archive inclusion or for personal use?
[16:29] <LucidFox> I think the best course of action would be setting up a home page for it, and providing a tarball. After that, someone else can package it.
[16:30] <bluekuja> verb3k, I don't think providing a package with *one* script will help
[16:30] <verb3k> LucidFox, I hope to include it in the universe, but for now I will distribute it in the forums
[16:30] <LucidFox> What does it do?
[16:30] <verb3k> bluefoxicy, , I hope to include it in the universe, but for now I will distribute it in the forums
[16:30] <LucidFox> And where's the link to the forum thread?
[16:30] <verb3k> LucidFox, backs up PSX games in a playable format using emulators
[16:31] <LucidFox> O_o
[16:31] <verb3k> hehe
[16:31] <verb3k> that's legal
[16:31] <verb3k> if you have the game
[16:31] <LucidFox> It's... not a question of whether it's legal.
[16:31] <verb3k> LucidFox, http://dpaste.com/hold/28221/
[16:32] <verb3k> LucidFox, using cdrdao as a backend
[16:33] <LucidFox> Yes, I found the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=642989
[16:33] <verb3k> fast :)
[16:33] <verb3k> LucidFox, so what do you think?
[16:34] <LucidFox> As I said: Set up a home page for it, for example, at Google Code. Package a tarball and assign a version number.
[16:34] <LucidFox> Select a DFSG-compatible license and add the appropriate license header.
[16:34] <LucidFox> If it's GPL, attach a COPYING file - and in this case I'd recommend GPLv3, just because.
[16:35] <LucidFox> And reasonable documentation.
[16:35] <verb3k> LucidFox, and then? how can I make a package
[16:35] <verb3k> ?
[16:36] <LucidFox> And then someone else will package it. :)
[16:36] <LucidFox> For example, I.
[16:36] <verb3k> LucidFox, If I come back to you after some time will you package it for me :)
[16:37] <LucidFox> When the homepage and tarball is prepared, sure.
[16:38] <verb3k> LucidFox, so google is a good place to start, I already have an email account with gmail
[16:39] <verb3k> LucidFox, thanks for your time :)
[16:39] <verb3k> bluekuja, sorry but I missed your name to bluefoxicy :)
[16:40] <bluekuja> verb3k, np
[16:49] <RainCT> is it just me or are the dependencies for xffm-icons broken?
[16:49] <RainCT> (pbuilder doesn't like it :S)
[16:50] <bluefoxicy> the what
[16:50] <bluefoxicy> stop doing that ffs
[17:01] <RainCT> dholbach: (a little note: in your last blog post you wrote "updatemaintainer"; that should be "update-maintainer")
[17:02] <dholbach> RainCT: will fix
[17:14] <effie_jayx> ScottK, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/peercast/+bug/177163 give it a look and see if it looks ok
[17:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177163 in peercast "please merge peercast 0.1217.toots.20060314-5 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:15] <effie_jayx> I think I just did it :D
[17:35] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Debdiff looks right.
[17:41] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  :D
[17:43] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  I am reporting the bug in debian
[17:43] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Great.
[17:43] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Make sure their package names are the same as ours.
[17:44] <gilir> Hi :)
[17:44] <ScottK> Hello
[17:45] <gilir> REVU broken ?
[17:46] <ScottK> The web part isn't.
[17:46] <ScottK> Dunno about uploads.
[17:59] <\sh> remoins
[19:00] <metalgod__> siretart: i uploaded a new release of cdrtools to ubuntu-burning-ppa i hope it's alright :)
[19:22] <Saras> http://agui.myminicity.es/ind/ jpg ex girlfriend join in
[19:22] <Saras> http://agui.myminicity.es/ind/ jpg ex girlfriend join in
[19:23] <jpatrick> @ops | Saras
[20:13] <somerville32> Hi DktrKranz
[20:13] <DktrKranz> hey somerville32 :)
[20:13] <somerville32> :)
[20:31] <Supremus> norsetto, hi!
[20:32] <norsetto> hi Supremus Magnus Imperator
[20:32] <smagoun> I'm creating a small native package that needs to install a config file under a non-root user account. Can I do this via the debian/install file? I don't have a Makefile + would rather not write one.
[20:34] <totopalma> norsetto, hi :)
[20:35] <norsetto> hi there totopalma
[20:36] <somerville32> smagoun, no
[20:50] <alvinc> dumb question...  does anyone know a good link to a howto for building a 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit host?
[20:51] <bigon> is there any particular raisons cairo-dock is not packaged for ubuntu?
[20:58] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[20:58] <TheMuso> And MOTU hopefuls.
[20:58] <RainCT> hi TheMuso :)
[20:59] <slangasek> God ye good e'en, TheMuso
[21:01] <geser> Hi TheMuso
[21:03] <norsetto> TheMuso: don't forget the MOTU Hopeless pls. (we are a proud category)
[21:03] <TheMuso> norsetto: lol
[21:04] <zul> hey TheMuso
[21:04] <geser> norsetto: does this category grow in number?
[21:05] <norsetto> geser: yes, we tend to reproduce easily
[21:12] <mok0> Yo, norsetto!
[21:13] <norsetto> mok0: Heil, tide meister!
[21:13] <mok0> norsetto: there was a slight complication with my debdiff, wrt. the xtide-data package.
[21:13] <mok0> norsetto: I hope I did the right things on LP
[21:14] <norsetto> mok0: what was the complication?
[21:14] <mok0> bug #177204
[21:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177204 in xtide-data "Please merge xtide-data-20040203-3 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177204
[21:15] <mok0> I made a change in xtide (DD agrees) that affects xtide-data
[21:17] <norsetto> mok0: this is not in the changelog: -rm -f h.txt offsets.xml harmonics.tcd
[21:17] <mok0> norsetto: you are right
[21:17] <norsetto> mok0: ok, and this change was in agreement with Debian I understand?
[21:17] <mok0> norsetto: I added the "-f" otherwise debuild -S -sa fails
[21:18] <mok0> norsetto: yes, he agrees
[21:18] <mok0> norsetto: but he has no time atm to update the package
[21:18] <norsetto> mok0: I mean, to the xtide-data change too, so that we can sync in the future?
[21:18] <mok0> norsetto: I think the changes will eventually appear in Debian
[21:19] <mok0> norsetto: including icons etc
[21:19] <mok0> Then we can trash the ubuntu version
[21:20] <mok0> norsetto: I propose that both xtide and xtide-data be updated
[21:20] <mok0> norsetto: I will explain the problem:
[21:23] <mok0> norsetto: xtide looks for harmonics data in /usr/share/xtide. It will use all files in that directory, but if a another file or a directory is present there, it will croak. That does not leave space to include the "world vector shoreline" data which enables xtide to draw a map. Therefore, I proposed that the harmonics data be moved -> /usr/share/xtide/harmonics, and the wvs data could (in future package, or manually by user) be placed in /usr/shar
[21:24] <mok0> norsetto: therefore, xtide-data should simple install things in the new place
[21:27] <norsetto> mok0: right, but, isn't that premature then?
[21:27] <mok0> norsetto: not if we want a cool version of xtide for hardy :-)
[21:28] <mok0> norsetto: I feel it is ok since I forwarded a bunch of stuff and comments and so on the the DD
[21:29] <mok0> norsetto: and he said he had no time atm to update the package
[21:30] <mok0> norsetto: but then again, I don't know the customs of the community very well (yet)
[21:34] <norsetto> mok0: I mean, why change the structure now if you don't need (yet)?
[21:36] <mok0> norsetto: Well, actually it _is_ needed if someone wants to add wvs data manually
[21:36] <mok0> norsetto: They cannot put it in /usr/share/xtide which is kinda puzzling
[21:37] <norsetto> mok0: is this structure changed in the package or was it choosen upstream?
[21:37] <mok0> norsetto: with this change, there will be a directory (empty) to put it
[21:37] <Kmos> I'm doing the merge of mgetty, somebody have any opinion about bug 75058 ?
[21:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 75058 in mgetty "faxrunqd hangs on /etc/init.d/mgetty-fax stop" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75058
[21:37] <mok0> norsetto: The change was made by me, and I suggested it to the DD, he said "good idea".
[21:38] <mok0> norsetto: I can forward you the email exchange if you want
[21:38] <norsetto> mok0: I understand that, I was just wondering why this structure is not dictatedd by upstream (if this necessary for it to work properly that is)
[21:39] <mok0> norsetto: no it's not dictated by upstream
[21:39] <mok0> norsetto: it is necessary for my current modification to the package to work, unless I revert it
[21:42] <mok0> norsetto: The selling point is that the change provides a natural place for people to put the wvs data, that will be supported in future releases
[21:43] <norsetto> mok0: I don't have problems with that, what I don't understand is why the program will "croak" if this data is there and not a a dir of its own (is that by design or by mistake?).
[21:45] <mok0> norsetto: I think the program is designed to read all files in a directory specified by the first line in /etc/xtide.conf, and to expect that all those files are "harmonics.db" files  (some internal binary format)
[21:45] <norsetto> mok0: right, but the program must also have in a configuration somwehere where to look for the wvs data?
[21:45] <mok0> norsetto: I tried putting another file in that directory, and the program stops with an error dialog box
[21:46] <mok0> norsetto: Yes, that is the second line in /etc/xtide.conf
[21:46] <warp10> Hi norsetto! thank you for your comments, I really appreciated the way you pointed out my errors.
[21:46] <mok0> norsetto: So, in my change the lines are: /usr/share/xtide/harmonics, /usr/share/xtide/wvs
[21:46] <norsetto> mok0: ok, so, you have now two dirs, one xtide/harmonics and another xtide/wvs which are pointed by the two first lines of xtide.conf?
[21:47] <mok0> norsetto: yes
[21:47] <norsetto> warp10: np, glad I could help
[21:48] <norsetto> mok0: ok, I don't see a problem then
[21:48] <mok0> norsetto: A future package will put wvs data in that place
[21:48] <mok0> norsetto: yay :-)
[21:51] <Kmos> I'm doing the merge of mgetty, somebody have any opinion about bug 75058 ?
[21:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 75058 in mgetty "faxrunqd hangs on /etc/init.d/mgetty-fax stop" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75058
[21:58] <mok0> Hey BTS is actully pretty cool
[22:05] <norsetto> kmos: have a look at this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=235196
[22:05] <ubotu> Debian bug 235196 in mgetty-fax "stop target of init.d sends SIGUSR2. Using SIGHUP for restart?" [Normal,Fixed]
[22:10] <Kmos> norsetto: nop.. thanks
[22:10] <Kmos> i'll add it to LP
[22:17] <TheMuso> c
[22:17] <TheMuso> ugh
[22:17] <TheMuso> Damn this cool weather
[22:20] <persia> Riddell: re: infon: When uploading "in the normal way", should I set Origin, or just push it directly?
[22:21] <pochu> slangasek, evand: congrats for your core powers :)
[22:23] <evand> thanks pochu!
[22:26] <slangasek> pochu: thanks :)
[22:26] <slangasek> now I can apply myself in earnest to doing evil things
[22:26] <slangasek> oh whoops that was out loud
[22:26] <ScottK> slangasek: Congratulations.
[22:27] <slangasek> ScottK: thanks
[22:27] <persia> slangasek: What, you weren't doing that sideways pre-DIF? (and congratulations)
[22:27] <ScottK> slangasek: You work for Canonical, so that's a given.
[22:27] <ScottK> ;-)
[22:27] <slangasek> har
[22:27] <ScottK> slangasek: Do you have the ability to reject stuff out of NEW?
[22:27] <slangasek> yes
[22:28] <ScottK> slangasek: Would you please reject my reject clamav upload.  I fubar'ed the .changes and it's an important enough one I'd like to do it again.
[22:28] <slangasek> (all ubuntu-archive have that ability; not sure where we stand on the LP bug that was stopping Hobbsee from doing it though)
[22:28] <slangasek> looking now
[22:28]  * persia thinks that bug finally got closed in 1.1.11
[22:28] <ScottK> Thanks.
[22:29] <persia> ScottK: Are you doing fakesync, or uploading a sync from Debian NEW for that?
[22:29] <slangasek> ScottK: hrm, you realize it's only in binary NEW not in source NEW, right?  Your sourceful .changes was already accepted, and the first build is already uploaded
[22:30] <ScottK> Shoot.
[22:30] <slangasek> so I can reject that, but it wouldn't change anything :)
[22:30] <ScottK> Thanks.
[22:30] <slangasek> what was the problem with .changes?
[22:30] <ScottK> persia: Fake syncing the same package that's sitting in Debian NEW right now.
[22:31] <ScottK> slangasek: It didn't have the latest Debian changes in it, so it just says fakesync and nothing about what's being fake synced.
[22:31] <slangasek> ah
[22:31]  * ScottK forgot the -v
[22:31]  * slangasek nods
[22:32] <slangasek> no real tragedy though
[22:32] <ScottK> The good news is that I do think clamav is actually a sync now, so once it gets out of new, I'll just sync over it anyway.
[22:32] <ScottK> No.  I guess not.
[22:33] <ScottK> slangasek: In Debian, is there a sort of standard polite amount of time to wait between emailing a maintainer about maybe taking over their package and then hijacking it when you don't hear back?
[22:34]  * persia thinks a couple NMUs are standard first, but that's only from loose observation
[22:34] <ScottK> In this case the individual in question hasn't uploaded anything in 10 months.
[22:35] <ScottK> persia: I'm not going to NMU it as NMUs have to be minimally invasive and I'm not up for that in this case.
[22:35] <persia> ScottK: Ah.  Right.
[22:36] <ScottK> What I'm after is taking Ubuntu's klamav package and shoving it into Debian.  Ubuntu and Debian packaging for Klamav have no history in common.
[22:37] <persia> Erk.  That's certainly not "minimally invasive" :)
[22:37] <ScottK> Yeah.  So no NMU.
[22:38] <geser> ScottK: have you already mailed mia@ ?
[22:38] <ScottK> geser: I haven't.  I just mailed the maintainer today.
[22:40] <slangasek> ScottK: I think the politeness is more about the process than about the time allowed, though given the rate at which things happen in Debian I would think 1 month would be the minimum from first contacting the maintainer to uploading a take-over
[22:41] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
[22:41] <slangasek> as for the process, it's: contact the maintainer, wait a bit; contact the mia team asking whether the maintainer is known to be inactive, cc'ing the maintainer; contact debian-qa, cc'ing the maintainer, about forcibly orphaning
[22:41] <verb3k> Can anybody volunteer to package my program? it's a simple python script (1 file only)
[22:42] <verb3k> It is hosted at google code
[22:42] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.  I supposed it helps if the package is RC buggy?
[22:43] <slangasek> ScottK: that goes to evidence that the package is unmaintained and is likely to get the qa team to sanction the takeover, yes
[22:43] <persia> verb3k: Is there a needs-packaging bug?
[22:44] <slangasek> ScottK: also helps if you've been actively submitting patches to the package that have been ignored
[22:44] <verb3k> persia, no,I've writen the program myself..... I am not aiming at universe, just want to share it with forum members
[22:45] <verb3k> persia, I don't have any packaging experience, I would appreciate help
[22:45] <persia> verb3k: In that case, finding a packager might be more difficult.  You might post your google code URL to the forum, and ask if anyone who is following that thread might be willing to package.
[22:46] <verb3k> persia, is it difficult to package a script (no compilation needed) ?
[22:46] <ScottK> slangasek: OK.  If the RC bug isn't there now, then it will be.  The big problem in the case of Klamav is the version in Lenny/Sid/Etc.  There's no "here's a nice patch" to fix it.
[22:47] <slangasek> yeah, I know
[22:47] <persia> verb3k: Not at all.    On the other hand, I'm not a python packager, so maybe something else is required.
[22:48] <slangasek> ScottK: "here's the changes I had to make to get the new version working, here's my experience after upgrading, please upload" is a fair proxy in the case of new upstream versions
[22:48] <slangasek> (oh, "here are the bugs upstream fixed")
[22:48] <verb3k> persia, I see ....thanks for your time persia
[22:52] <ScottK> slangasek: The challenge here is that I'm deeply familiar with the Ubuntu package and not the Debian one and they are VERY different.  If I have to figure out upgrading the Debian package first, then I'm not sure I've got the energy...
[22:52] <ScottK> Thanks for the advice.
[22:52] <slangasek> sure
[22:54] <slangasek> and yeah, I understand that's a lot of work; it is the most /reliable/ way to get the takeover endorsed, because otherwise bystanders may take the position that if you're not willing to do the work to make it something other than a forklift replacement, you're not necessarily doing a better job than the current maintainer ;)
[22:55] <Riddell> persia: I wouldn't make any changes
[22:55] <persia> Riddell: I don't intend to make any changes, I'm just wondering if I should set Origin in source.changes to debian/unstable or just upload a .changes built locally.
[22:58] <Riddell> persia: doesn't matter
[22:58] <persia> Riddell: OK.  Thanks.  (I think it ought matter, but that's not important :) )
[23:32] <pochu> Night folks
[23:34] <norsetto> g'night
[23:57] <cyberix> When will it be too late to get new packages into Hardy?
[23:58] <cyberix> February 14th
[23:58] <cyberix> ?
[23:58] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:59]  * TheMuso sighs. Why do people update to new upstream versions of packages, even though the only bugfix is for something that is not linux specific.
[23:59] <imbrandon> TheMuso: heh