[00:06] <zequence> I realized it might be worth having a script for setting up a developer environment
[00:07] <zequence> I'm working on a ubuntustudio-devel "package"
[00:07] <zequence> or, I should probably call it ubuntustudio-dev-tools
[00:09] <zequence> Will create a bzr branch for it, once it's usable for something
[00:28] <micahg> !info packaging-dev
[00:44] <micahg> zequence: ^^
[01:00] <zequence> micahg: Thanks. My script will also help check the system for gpg, ssh, variables, and let the user add things that are missing. If I were to make a package out of it, I'd have it depend on existing dev packages. I wasn't aware of this one, actually.
[01:01] <zequence> There are two reasons for the extra help. 1. make new developers aware of what they need. 2. the script can be used just to check if all is in place
[01:04] <micahg> zequence: ok, maybe such a script could live in ubuntu-dev-tools if sufficiently geenric
[01:04] <micahg> *generic
[01:07] <zequence> micahg: Should work. But, now that you mentioned that package, I should probably look through the available tools first :).
[01:09] <zequence> Like "setup-packaging-environment"
[01:10] <micahg> might work for packaging-dev as well
[01:15] <zequence> I think most of what I was considering might. But, if I add bzr stuff, then it might better belong in ubuntu-dev-tools. I could also split things up. And if it gets really specific, than perhaps a ubuntustudio-dev-tools, or just a downloadable script could depend on those
[01:17] <zequence> I think the only really non generic thing I was considering was ensuring there was some kind of keyring in place. I forget exactly where there might be problems for the inexperienced. Need to set up a system from scratch and see.
[01:18] <zequence> Well, maybe not non-generic. And it would be selectable, as everything else
[07:29] <astraljava> Hey guys, haven't read this myself, yet, but might have some good tips on the graphics side of things: http://bit.ly/V69PI9
[07:30] <astraljava> Title is 'Professional Graphics Creation on Linux'.
[11:23] <zequence> astraljava: Something I've seen before is people recommending Krita
[11:24] <zequence> I'm thinking of ways to enhance information flow directed towards us regarding linux multimedia
[11:24] <zequence> G+ has some great pages for that, which I do subscribe to
[11:24] <zequence> I'm thinking of creating other google based feeds
[11:25] <astraljava> Sounds good. If you can make it public, please do share.
[11:28] <zequence> astraljava: found this https://code.google.com/apis/console/. An explanation on how to create a rss feed on a search http://www.labnol.org/internet/rss-feeds-for-google-searches/19944/
[11:29] <zequence> Ah, need to go. will have to look at that when I return
[11:34] <astraljava> zequence: Cool beans, thanks!
[14:16] <smartboyhw> Hello ScottL
[14:25] <smartboyhw> scott-work, hello
[14:25]  * smartboyhw found out he said hello to the wrong place:P
[14:28] <scott-work> good morning smartboyhw
[14:31]  * smartboyhw is happy now he knew how to update packages:P
[14:37] <scott-work> how do you update packages?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> scott-work, actually I found it on developer.ubuntu.com and played with a package
[14:38] <smartboyhw> called rt-tests
[14:38] <smartboyhw> Got sponsored just a few hours ago
[14:39] <scott-work> super cool then
[14:41] <smartboyhw> scott-work, BTW the team structure that you posted in your blog, I just can't understand the right hand side of it
[14:41] <zequence> smartboyhw: How did you update it? Did you request a sync from Debian?
[14:43] <smartboyhw> zequence, no. Look at the bottom part of http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html (sid is just outdated for 2 releases)
[14:43] <smartboyhw> Anyway, DON'T TRY:P
[14:44] <smartboyhw> Gee looking at the "lunchtime thoughts" and then probably zequence will have 3 positions as leads (tech, kernel, doc)
[14:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: Please do not update packages in Ubuntu repos just for fun. If you want them updated, do it in Debian. Then request a sync
[14:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: There is someone responsible of that package in Debian probably
[14:45] <zequence> If Debian is behind, find out why, and if you really need a package updated, try to make it happen in Debian
[14:45] <smartboyhw> zequence, I did ping that guy, and he said he will probably have the update in sid some three months after the debian freeze lifted.....
[14:46] <zequence> And Experimental?
[15:01] <scott-work> smartboyhw: sorry, was planning on responding on g+, which i still probably will
[15:02] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i was graphically showing (to myself) how the various teams would be included in each other
[15:02] <smartboyhw> scott-work, oh
[15:03] <scott-work> right now it's a mess and i screwed up by accepting a few invitations which put -devel as a team of other teams, which i don't agree with now
[15:03] <scott-work> e.g. the -nightly team should be a member of -devel IMO, not the other way around
[15:07] <smartboyhw> scott-work, well then do you think that pic is good enough?
[15:08]  * smartboyhw is in crisis mode for clashing QA sessions with Developer Week
[15:08] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:11] <scott-work> smartboyhw: good enough for what? i was just sharing my personal brainstorming
[15:11] <smartboyhw> scott-work, good enough for real world team planning:
[15:11] <smartboyhw> :p
[15:11] <scott-work> my next step is to write a few sentence as the purpose for each team
[15:11] <scott-work> once i do that then i would post a more formalized version to the -devel mailing list
[15:11] <scott-work> asking for opinions and suggestions
[15:15] <scott-work> oh, i should point out that the names that are listed by teams are basically people who are functioning (say they want to function) in those capacities
[15:18] <scott-work> ....and that was literally a fifteen minute exercise to organize my thoughts on what the teams are, what teams _should_ be
[16:03] <zequence> scott-work: I'd really like to talk about switching the desktop background for next release
[16:04] <zequence> The idea of it is nice, but the resolution is not that great
[16:04] <zequence> Becomes more apparent on a bigger screen
[16:05] <zequence> scott-work: I've noticed you'd like more community input. I guess you were looking for art as well.
[16:05] <zequence> I mean, from looking at the blueprints
[16:06] <zequence> I forget the details. Don't really want to dive too deeply into it.
[16:06] <zequence> As for art, I only feel strongly about changing the wallpaper
[16:37] <scott-work> zequence: i don't personally have any problem changing the background, do you have any suggestions at this time?
[16:38] <zequence> scott-work: Nope
[16:38] <zequence> scott-work: I guess it would make sense to have some sort of a submission thing, with a deadline
[16:39] <zequence> We could post about it on all the channels we have, and mail lists
[16:56] <scott-work> zequence: there are a few other items that i would like to address before getting into the art stuff from the blueprints, but i not only agree about posting on the channels, i had planned to do this is the next week or so
[16:57] <zequence> scott-work: All right :)
[17:51] <zequence> progress on -controls has really been slow. I should try to whip something up now. Actually wrote some c code not long ago, to check the values for rtprio and memlock
[17:52] <zequence> If I can just get the realtime admin part into shape, with the gui, I feel it's enough to push it.
[21:54] <falktx> ...hmm
[21:55] <falktx> zequence: wasn't there some kind of meeting happening?
[21:55] <len-1304> falktx, Last thursday?
[21:55] <ScottL> falktx, would you like to have a meeting? we can do that :)
[21:55] <ScottL> hiya len-1304
[21:55] <falktx> kinda, yes
[21:55] <falktx> hey ScottL, hey all
[21:55] <falktx> damn I've been so busy... sorry everyone
[21:56] <len-1304> OK, I have about 15min.
[21:56] <ScottL> falktx, was there something particular you wanted to discuss?
[21:56] <falktx> yes, Cadence :)
[21:56] <falktx> the first tools in here: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications
[21:56] <len-1304> Must be ready to go?
[21:56] <falktx> I'm shaping them for release, v1.0
[21:57] <len-1304> Great!
[21:57] <falktx> I had issues with my c++ code for my plugin host
[21:57] <falktx> so I've put that into a separate project
[21:57] <falktx> there's nothing stopping the release now, aside from a few unimplemented things
[21:58] <len-1304> So long as they don't show in the menus that should not be a problem
[21:58] <ScottL> cool
[21:58] <len-1304> falktx, Are you releasing them through debian or directto ubuntu?
[21:58] <falktx> len-1304: I want them in debian
[21:58] <len-1304> Good idea.
[21:58] <falktx> is it too late?
[21:59] <ScottL> that's good, you will reach a lot of people that way (including the ubuntu ones)
[21:59] <len-1304> never too late :)   Too late for what?
[21:59]  * falktx prepapes PPA packages for testing, 0 external depencies
[21:59] <falktx> len-1304: for 13.04 repo inclusion
[22:00] <len-1304> I don't think so.
[22:00] <zequence> falktx: Are you pushing it to Debian?
[22:00] <zequence> Ah, you said that
[22:00] <len-1304> There is no alpha date this time.
[22:00] <zequence> There is a feature freeze, as always
[22:01] <falktx> this week I'm finishing my plugin host code, but next week I have time for Cadence
[22:01] <len-1304> When?
[22:01] <falktx> zequence: when ?
[22:01] <falktx> hehe
[22:01] <len-1304> My when was for FF
[22:01] <zequence> falktx: March 7th
[22:01] <falktx> ah, plenty of time!
[22:01] <zequence> falktx: Ah, no
[22:02] <zequence> falktx: There's a Debian import freeze before that
[22:02] <falktx> ScottL: let me prepare some base packages. I would like to discuss Cadence inclusion on UbuntuStudio later on
[22:02] <zequence> falktx: Don't know if we can make an exception
[22:02] <falktx> zequence: oh, when is that?
[22:02] <zequence> February 14th
[22:02] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
[22:03] <len-1304> could they be released to both debian and ubuntu?
[22:03] <zequence> We might be able to request a sync if the deadline is not met
[22:03] <falktx> len-1304: yes, my target is to get them into debian first, then backport to 13.04
[22:03] <falktx> but I have 0 experience getting a package into debian
[22:04] <ScottL> sorry, back. falktx you should talk with alessio from debian multimedia, he can probably help quite a bit
[22:04] <len-1304> I haven't either.
[22:04] <ScottL> the debian multimedia guys are _very_ passionate about packaging and providing help to get packages in
[22:05] <ScottL> falktx, is cadence "debianized"?
[22:05] <ScottL> meaning, does it have the changelog, control file, etc?
[22:05] <falktx> yes, it's already in KXStudio so it's already debian-ready
[22:06] <falktx> as much as my debian packaging skills go...
[22:06] <ScottL> heh, yeah. duh, i should have realized that ;)
[22:06] <len-1304> What I thought, would it help if we did some testing?
[22:06] <ScottL> i'd be up to help with some testing too
[22:07] <len-1304> falktx, is it testable against 13.04 alpha? or just 12.04?
[22:07] <falktx> len-1304: I'll prepare packages for 12.04<->13.04
[22:07] <ScottL> i'll be back in about ten minutes or so, doing stuff with son
[22:08] <falktx> I'm uploading to https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/cadence/
[22:10] <ttoine> hello
[22:10] <ttoine> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/ubuntu-considers-huge-change-that-would-end-traditional-release-cycle/
[22:11] <zequence> ttoine: Yeah, I saw that today too.
[22:11] <falktx> I read that
[22:11] <falktx> I wish it was true
[22:11] <zequence> Probably means the way we work would change. We do updates to an existing release much more
[22:16] <falktx> 2 hours for packages to build
[22:17] <ttoine> falktx, would be great, yeah
[22:18] <ttoine> but would it mean less stability ? for server use, as an example
[22:18] <falktx> just don't update server packages then?
[22:18] <falktx> server != desktop
[22:19] <falktx> I say update desktop stuff like gimp, but leave apache alone
[22:19] <len-1304> I am not sure but I would hope that an LTS still keeps the same versions through it's cycle.
[22:20] <falktx> major versions maybe, but at least update minor ones
[22:20] <len-1304> The rolling release would be like dev for the next LTS, but usable as it gets worked on.
[22:21] <len-1304> Sort of like using 13.04 on a daily basis if you are not going LTS
[22:23] <len-1304> Gotta go. Might be back in a few hours.
[22:26] <zequence> They could just make the update choices different.
[22:27] <falktx> yeah, different repos
[22:27] <falktx> raring-updates
[22:27] <falktx> raring-updates-extra
[22:27] <falktx> etc
[22:37] <ScottL> i would worry about new features and a rolling release
[22:38] <ScottL> do you avoid all new features, just major ones, or wait until LTS to do them
[22:38] <ScottL> is there a side development branch for pre-testing?
[22:38] <ScottL> yadda, yadda, yadda
[22:38] <ScottL> for example, what if Unity was developed during a rolling release development
[22:38] <ScottL> ?
[22:42] <ttoine> ScottL, it would be like gmail and google apps
[22:42] <ttoine> a few mofications from time to time to anoy users a few day
[22:42] <ttoine> but small improvements may be good too
[22:43] <ttoine> look at firefox, in the past, we had only one major release per ubuntu release
[22:43] <ttoine> now, we have the new one every two weeks. quite good for security
[22:43] <ttoine> if fixes are available more often, it is good !
[22:44] <ttoine> no need anymore to ask for backport in old lts, etc...
[22:54] <ttoine> well, good night !
[23:13] <ScottL> i guess that is a good point, but there would still need to probably be some side development before it was pushed though
[23:14] <zequence> I'm thinking 14.04, 14.04.1, etc. But, those who want only security updates would not get any feature changes for the duration of the release
[23:47] <micahg> new firefox every 6 weeks...
[23:48] <micahg> for features + rolling release, you land features when they're ready, only time you're conservative is close to the LTS, at that point, you want to be focusing on polish anyways


[01:32] <twenty3> lol my shell was strictly purchased for znc
[01:32] <twenty3> oops
[01:32] <twenty3> wroing window
[18:46] <xubuntu14i> cool and good


[10:58] <silver_m> hi can I install latest linux generic kernel to lubuntu 14.04 lts
[10:58] <silver_m> ?
[10:59] <silver_m> I think latest version is 4.1?
[11:00] <silver_m> can I install it tou lubuntu 12.04?
[11:00] <silver_m> or it will face problems?
[11:07] <BotchlaB> afaik, unless the distro packages it as an upgrade, you'll probably need to compile it yourself.
[11:59] <silver_m> can I install wily 4.1.0 kernel to lubuntu 12.04 LTS
[12:00] <silver_m> ????
[12:04] <BotchlaB> silver_m: Perhaps main #ubuntu channel may have more information, or ##kernel.
[12:05] <teward> silver_m: can you?  possibly.  Would you want to?  Probably not
[12:05] <silver_m> I mean 14.04
[12:05] <silver_m> not 12.04
[12:05] <teward> silver_m: i'd wait for wily to release first
[12:05] <teward> because you affect a lot more than you think grabbing a new kernel
[12:05] <BotchlaB> Same here, I just go with packages.
[12:05] <teward> sure you can do a by-hand recompile and installation, but keep your older kernels around
[12:05] <teward> because I can almost guarantee things'll explode
[12:06] <teward> whether it's libc, or drivers, etc.
[12:06] <silver_m> I mean kernel 4.1 can be installed to 14.04 lts
[12:06] <silver_m> ?
[12:06] <teward> silver_m: so apparently you didn't read?
[12:06] <teward> [2015-08-20 08:05:04] <teward> silver_m: can you?  possibly.  Would you want to?  Probably not
[12:06] <BotchlaB> silver_m: Yes, we understood you. We're saying it is possible.
[12:06] <BotchlaB> Or could be possible.
[12:06] <BotchlaB> But may not be very wise.
[12:06] <BotchlaB> silver_m: Note that I redirected you to ##kernel because kernel-specific issues are very finicky
[12:06] <silver_m> ok
[12:07] <teward> and #ubuntu wouldn't be the place to ask either, since Wily isn't released, and you bring Wily into the equation
[12:07] <BotchlaB> teward: Hm, even if it concerns an LTS?
[12:08] <BotchlaB> I suppose LTS support only extends so far.
[12:10] <teward> BotchlaB: they're mixing +1 and LTS
[12:10] <teward> and Wily kernel is probably not final-fixed-version yet
[12:10] <BotchlaB> teward: I see, that's the knowledge I was missing -- that +1 has the 4.1 kernel.
[12:10] <teward> so they're potentially ironing out kernel bugs.
[12:10] <BotchlaB> Or whatever version.
[12:10] <teward> BotchlaB: Wily is +1
[12:10] <BotchlaB> Right.
[12:11] <teward> [2015-08-20 07:59:59] <silver_m> can I install wily 4.1.0 kernel to lubuntu 12.04 LTS  <-- they said 12.04 here but said WIly kernel
[12:11] <teward> so it's the +1 kernel on current LTS
[12:11] <teward> untested, likely, and with the kernel not necessarily hitting its freeze date yet, i'd suspect there'll be other changes
[12:11] <BotchlaB> Yeah, 14.04 is what they meant.
[12:11] <teward> right
[12:11] <teward> even then, Wily kernel remains what they asked
[12:11] <BotchlaB> Yeah.
[12:12] <teward> urgh 45 minutes to the start of work, and nothing to do
[12:12] <silver_m> 12.04 was wron
[12:12] <BotchlaB> You know, Debian has a channel specifically (on another network) for +1 ; does #Ubuntu have such an equivalent?
[12:12] <silver_m> wrong
[12:12] <BotchlaB> silver_m: We know. :)
[12:14] <teward> BotchlaB: #ubuntu+1  ?
[12:14] <teward> !wily
[12:14] <teward> ubottu knows all
[12:14] <teward> all hail ubottu
[12:14] <teward> :p
[12:14] <BotchlaB> Hm, hold on... I know you from before, right? Did you used to run that bouncer service with Jose and ecks?
[12:14] <BotchlaB> Goddamn, what was the name.
[12:15] <silver_m> they dont allow me to enter #kernel it says invite only
[12:15] <BotchlaB> silver_m, ##kernel
[12:15] <BotchlaB> Two #'s.
[12:15] <teward> BotchlaB: yep
[12:16] <teward> BotchlaB: ecks went somewhere, no idea where, jose is with layerbnc now
[12:16] <silver_m> thanks
[12:16] <BotchlaB> silver_m np
[12:16] <BotchlaB> teward: Nice talking again -- I used to be known before as Metaleer or Bremsstrahlung.
[12:17] <teward> yeah i remember you :)
[12:17] <BotchlaB> ;)\
[12:17] <teward> BotchlaB: #lubuntu-offtopic for further social banter?  :)
[13:42] <silver_m> how can I install generic kernel in lubuntu? I type sudo apt-get install generic ???
[15:51] <eipi10> sup
[18:39] <Stringtoss> hey there, i upgraded from 14.10 to 15.04, and when I go hit "logout" now, nothing happens, i like to be able to switch between desktops sometimes, it works in cinnamon just fine, just not in lubuntu
[18:41] <ianorlin> Stringtoss: what happens when you run lxsession-logout ?
[18:42] <Stringtoss> absolutely nothing
[18:42] <ianorlin> Stringtoss: strange
[18:42] <Stringtoss> indeed
[18:43] <Stringtoss> reinstalling it says this  "lxsession-logout is already the newest version. lxsession-logout set to manually installed."
[18:44] <ianorlin> Stringtoss: did you change the window manager in lubuntu or anything
[18:44] <Stringtoss> no
[18:44] <Stringtoss> i didn't change anything
[18:45] <Stringtoss> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2264723  it's apparently a common problem
[18:47] <ianorlin> there is the nuclear option if you are only user logged in of running sudo systemctl restart lightdm will log you out but will logout all users and restart the display manager
[18:49] <Stringtoss> apparently if i use task manager to kill the process and THEN hit logout it'll work sometimes
[18:49] <silver_m> I upgraded kernel 4.1 low latency in lubuntu 14.04 LTS
[18:50] <Stringtoss_> whoever just told me to use the nuclear option, that semed to work
[18:50] <Stringtoss_> but i had to restart chrome so can you type it again?
[18:54] <Stringtoss_> wait i didn't quit
[19:20] <Tremere> namd leute. sorry für die störung, ich hab mal ne frage..
[19:20] <Tremere> hab eben smplayer installiert und das teil gibt keine videos aus, audio schon (restricted-extras ist bereits installiert). woran liegt das und wie kann ichs wieder beheben?
[19:20] <wxl> !de | Tremere
[19:21] <Tremere> thanks
[19:21] <wxl> no problem
[19:21] <wxl> sorry i can't speak much german XD
[19:22] <Tremere> i can try in english
[19:22] <wxl> works for me Tremere
[19:24] <Tremere> i installed smplayer but theres no video-output (just audio), "restricted-extras" already installed but smplayer still doesn't show video. did i make something wrong? how can i fix this? (sorry i'm beginner
[19:24] <wxl> !info smplayer
[19:25] <wxl> hm, i'd imagine that would work fine
[19:25] <wxl> try installing lubuntu-restricted-extras and see if that helps
[19:25] <wxl> it's possible that the meta package makes some assumption that's incorrect for lubuntu
[19:27] <Tremere> still no video..
[19:28] <wxl> do you have problems using mplayer on the command line, Tremere ?
[19:29] <Tremere> because i'm a beginner i don't understand the command lines (i only know apt-get)
[19:29] <bioterror> why use something else than VLC?
[19:29] <wxl> Tremere: try running `mplayer /path/to/video/file`
[19:29] <bioterror> it just plays anything
[19:30] <wxl> Tremere: for example try `mplayer ~/Videos/cute-kittens.mpg` if such a file exists XD
[19:30] <wxl> Tremere: although i do agree with bioterror that VLC takes the guesswork out of such things
[19:31] <Tremere> sorry, don't like vlc. mplayer is running correctly
[19:32] <wxl> Tremere: if mplayer works, then it sounds like it may be some sort of bug in smplayer. have you tried gnome-mplayer?
[19:32] <Tremere> yepp, works
[19:32] <wxl> then why do you want smplayer? XD
[19:32] <Tremere> it simply looks better ^^
[19:33] <wxl> though i can understand that, it appears to not be working
[19:33] <wxl> you may want to contact the package maintainers and/or simply file a bug
[19:33] <wxl> ianorlin: have you tried smplayer? it's a qt app.
[19:41] <ianorlin> yes I have
[19:42] <ianorlin> what is not working what kind of file I don't know what mpg is
[19:42] <ianorlin> it doesn't work quite as well as vlc for youtube videos though
[19:42] <ianorlin> but can play them over the network
[19:43] <wxl> Tremere: ↑
[19:43] <ianorlin> Are you selecting enque and then not hitting play
[19:44] <ianorlin> as that puts them in a playlist but does not start them
[19:44] <ianorlin> and is awesome once you figure out how to use it


[09:56] <pteague> i'm having issues with the computer locking up... i finally switched to a tty & waited for it to crash again & got the following - http://pastebin.com/m657e3319 - any ideas?
[11:34] <faulkes-> I don't do oops/kernel panics but I would suggest you start removing loaded modules you don't require as a first step
[12:38] <pteague> i removed the nvidia drivers (not sure how else to set up my dual monitors though) & it's been running for about 30 minutes, but atop messed up & won't update... ps aux dumps some stuff & then hangs & won't respond to ctrl+c
[12:46] <faulkes-> the nvidia drivers, did you install them from synaptic or via envy?
[12:46] <faulkes-> and which kernel are you running?
[12:48] <faulkes-> I will be back, I have to do a reboot here
[12:57] <pteague> faulkes-> i installed them via the restricted drivers thing
[12:58] <pteague> & whatever kernel is on the ubuntu 7.10 64-bit live cd (not the server)
[13:39] <faulkes-> hrrm, interesting, well that could be an issue, I'm not sure
[13:40] <faulkes-> you may wish to consider installing using envy
[13:40] <faulkes-> (nvidia drivers that is)
[13:40] <faulkes-> which card is it?
[14:29] <spiekey> Hello!
[14:29] <spiekey> i am running OpenLDAP 2.2.26 on Dapper.
[14:30] <spiekey> when i reset my linux box by pressing the reset button, then my ldap database seems to erase or forget some added attributes.
[14:30] <spiekey> e.g. my new samba user disapears from the DB.
[14:30] <spiekey> any idea why the hell this is happenening?
[14:41] <faulkes-> iirc doesn't ldap have a write/commit time interval, such that if you added something and then rebooted, those changes would be lost if the commit hadn't happend yet
[14:41] <faulkes-> (noting that I'm not an ldap expert)
[14:41] <faulkes-> but I do recall reading something about that
[14:43] <spiekey> that would make sense and explain that "recover not found" message when i normally start ldap
[14:43] <faulkes-> iirc there is a config value which you can set to tell it how often to do the writes
[14:44] <faulkes-> don't ask me *where* it is, but I recall reading that in the same post
[14:44] <faulkes-> it might have been from the ubuntu-server bug notifications
[14:44] <spiekey> i am just checking tha man page
[14:44] <spiekey> oh, so this could be quite ubuntu-related?
[14:46] <faulkes-> no, I believe it is ldap in particular related
[14:46] <faulkes-> however the ubuntu-server bug lists gets traffic from many sources
[14:52] <peterdv> I do not believe this to be ubuntu related.
[14:52] <peterdv> http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-software/200304/msg00066.html:
[14:52] <peterdv> "Check up on how often your data is set to sync to disk. The slapd-bdb
[14:52] <peterdv> man page is useful: look particularly at 'checkpoint' and 'dbnosync'.
[14:52] <peterdv> You may also need to read the Berkeley DB reference guide."
[14:53] <faulkes-> peter: thanks for the links
[14:57] <peterdv> My pleasure
[15:01] <spiekey> so "checkpoint 1 1" and "cachesize 0" should make sure it writes my changes to disk quite regually?
[15:03] <peterdv> Yes. Remember this will always be a tradeoff. You can not have both security and performance at the same time. You have to make that choice.
[15:04] <spiekey> i write about 5KByte to my bdb within 1h. So i have no problems with performance at all
[15:05] <peterdv> It's been a while since I personally looked at tuning ldap servers, I seem to recall setteling at a fairly large cache myself (heavy read load).
[15:06] <spiekey> oh, i think i just killed everthing under my rootdn :-/
[15:07] <spiekey> those two options broke my db :P
[15:08] <peterdv> "cachesize 0" appears to be extreme ...
[15:09] <spiekey> do you think checkpoint 1 1 is ok?
[15:09] <peterdv> Again, very extreme ...
[15:11] <peterdv> I run at default checkpoint and cachesize 1000000 - and try very hard to do a clean shutdown (at most times) :-)
[15:12] <peterdv> In my setup, this gives me close to wire speed read performance ...
[15:15] <spiekey> what do you have as checkpoint?
[15:26] <peterdv> Nothing. Ie. default.
[15:47] <spiekey> ok...if i add a new user to ldap and reset my box 15secs afterwards those changed are lost :-/
[15:49] <peterdv> If you by reset mean powercycle - yes this is to be expected. If you do a "shutdown -r now" changes should persist.
[15:50] <peterdv> Disclaimer: My production machine uses the LDBM backend.
[15:51] <spiekey> i am testing it by pressing the reset button, like a power failure
[15:51] <spiekey> ;)
[15:52] <peterdv> In that case - It does not have a chance :-)
[15:54] <spiekey> it has 15 seconds to write!
[15:55] <peterdv> True, but chanches are that it does not even try - depending on the default value for checkpoint - which I do not recall (or have readily at hand ....
[16:02] <peterdv> ... we try very hard to protect the LDAP server we write to, and try very hard to keep it running. It is considered core infrastructure. We are less sensitive about the ones we read from ...
[16:05] <soneil> sounds more like a task for a UPS, than a config option
[16:13] <peterdv> Indeed
[16:44] <spiekey> i just want to cover as much as i can
[16:44] <spiekey> of course the box will get a ups
[16:48] <peterdv> If this is key requirement to you, investigate the LDBM backend - once upon a time it did seem to write directly to disc, I do not know its current status.
[16:58] <spiekey> okay, thanks
[17:05] <soneil> Is there a write-up anywhere on why KVM was chosen over xen? All I'm finding on google is "a better fit for us"
[17:13] <faulkes-> soneil: best person to ask would be soren I imagine
[17:14] <faulkes-> !bug 112839
[17:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112839 in samba "I/O error on access to SMB shares of OS/2 Warp 4 host mounted in Ubuntu 7.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/112839
[17:14] <faulkes-> ok, at some point you just have to ask why and laugh a little bit
[17:39] <spiekey> what package do i need for ldbm? (Unrecognized database type (ldbm)
[17:40] <faulkes-> aptitude search ldbm
[17:40] <faulkes-> would likely be your best bet if it's in the repositories
[17:40] <spiekey> libmldbm-perl ??
[17:41] <faulkes-> I couldn't say for sure
[17:41] <spiekey> as far as i can tell the result does not show what i am lookig for ;)
[17:52] <peterdv> Mea Culpa. It seems that the LDBM backend type has been deprecated in OpenLDAP 2.2 - it was deemed to "not work well" - we still run on an old Red Hat server (no flames please).
[17:53] <spiekey> hmm..
[17:53] <spiekey> damn
[19:35] <soren> soneil: We chose kvm for a number of reasons.
[19:35] <zul> hey soren
[19:36] <soren> soneil: One of the primary reasons was the fact that Xen i not in the mainline kernel.
[19:36] <soren> zul: Hey, dude.
[19:37] <soren> soneil: A lot of it really boils down to supportability.
[19:37] <zul> what xen not being easily supportable? ;)
[19:38]  * soren looks up in the air
[19:38] <Nafallo> it is. we have zul :-)
[19:38] <soren> Oh, sure it is.</sarcasm>
[19:38] <soren> zul is a scarce ressource. :)
[19:39] <zul> also a bit of a masochist
[19:39] <soren> Clearly :)
[19:39] <Nafallo> masochists are fun :-)
[19:43] <soneil> soren: thanks.  (something for me to look into when the hardware arrives, I guess)
[19:45] <soren> soneil: Xen works with Ubuntu, though. We just don't give it nearly as much attention and Canonical won't be offering professional support for it.
[21:26] <onesandzeros> hello all.  Do any of you know if the ubuntu-server installer will let you install to a partition without formatting it?  kubuntu's won't.
[21:35] <ScottK> It won't, IIRC.
[22:11] <faulkes-> onesandzeros: just leave the space unallocated and create the partition afterwards
[22:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> debian-installer allows you to not reformat a partition (as long as it has a valid filesystem to start with)


 @KMyers check out slick deals front page
 @Ivoriesablaze, For what?
 Monster
 Is 20 for $23 a good deal?
 Prime Members: 20-Pack of 16-Oz Monster Energy Drinks (Original) … https://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/fp/252608
 Monsters are usually around 3 per can
 @AdamOutler, Yup
 And I can feel through the force Keith hitting that check out button
 @Ivoriesablaze, Prime 2 hour delivery to the rescue
 http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/comcast-nation/Latest-from-Silicon-Valley-An-online-chat-robot-to-haggle-over-your-Comcast-bill.html?mobi=true
 Just got $10 back on my bill.
 I autopiloted it most of the way.
 It just kept repeating my info and that I want money.
 The agent kept repeating "you have the lowest plan, $15 for 150mbps".  But I didn't let that detract me.
 HOA makes internet free.  I pay $15 for upgrade.
 Anyone want to see Rogue One today or tomorrow?
 I'm keeping my knee up all weekend, can't go anywhere
 It was good
 I've not seen it yet
 @KMyers around?
[22:01] <maxolasersquad> Y'alls has a great new years.
[22:01] <floridagram> * ahoneybun will party like it's his birthday
 Why do star trek computers always explode in combat?  You'd think OSHA would have better controls in the future.
 @ahoneybun, I am but not really into Star Trek
 @AdamOutler, They will at least produce a lot of documentation that no one understands
 @KMyers no, the consoles on the bridge.   But then again CBS kinda dif though


[07:09] <jim__> Hi, Is startup manager included in Ubuntu Studio?
[07:09] <cfhowlett> jim__, startup manager?
[07:10] <jim__> I read this "ou can configure the number of kernel lines in your grub menu with "startup-manager" (go to "Advanced" tab). If you have not installed yet, you can install it with "sudo apt-get install startupmanager" command. "
[07:10] <cfhowlett> jim__, which would mean it's NOT included by default, yes?
[07:11] <jim__> I think so.
[07:11] <cfhowlett> dpkg -l | grep startup-manager          will tell you
[07:13] <jim__> thanks - back in a few minutes.
[07:25] <murky> Ola pessoal


[00:00] <Daekdroom> poolie, yes
[00:02] <poolie> thanks
[01:15] <anthony96> Hi, I just made a live CD of 11.10 alpha 3 and when it booted it loaded everything the way its supposed to but the mouse was black is this a bug or because the ATI drivers are not installed?
[01:34] <bp0> what does forced fallback mode mean in ubuntu?
[02:13] <jbicha> bp0: I don't believe that button does anything in Ubuntu
[02:24] <bp0> huh
[02:25] <bp0> is there some package that allows the fallback mode?
[02:25] <bp0> ive got gnome-shell installed
[02:25] <bp0> if I set the fallback mode button and then restart into the GNOME session it causes an error and fails
[02:46] <mrdeb> who tried 1110 today
[02:50] <jbicha> bp0: that button is supposed to run the Gnome Fallback session (which requires you to have gnome-session-fallback
[02:50] <jbicha> and gnome-panel installed) but I don't think the button will work
[02:53] <jbicha> oh nm, it does work, it's just not needed since you can pick your session when you log in
[02:55] <bp0> ic
[03:03] <mrdeb> hi
[03:03] <mrdeb> when is 1110 stable
[03:05] <h00k> !schedule
[03:05] <h00k> mrdeb: check that ^
[03:06] <mrdeb> can you jsut tell me
[03:06] <h00k> mrdeb: I don't know offhand, but that wiki does.
[03:07] <mrdeb> ok well i will try it
[03:12] <joint> who upgraded to ubuntu 11.10 alpha 3?
[04:16] <phoenix_firebrd> hello everyone
[04:17] <phoenix_firebrd> i am using kubuntu 11.10, with kde 4.7, i have installed from daily build, i like to try telepathy-kde, i have added the ppa and even after adding it, i am not able to find the package in muon
[04:19] <phoenix_firebrd> apt find the package
[04:20] <phoenix_firebrd> why didnt the muon packager manager list it
[07:11] <IdleOne> thanks for fixing that rww
[09:31] <adreanalink> How can I let my system see packet I installed manually from make??
[09:32] <bazhang> !checkinstall | adreanalink
[09:33] <adreanalink> have the checkinstall  be supported by the configure file in the packet i'm installing?
[09:40] <tsimpson> adreanalink: no, checkinstall just puts the installed files into a package, so the package manager can see it
[09:40] <adreanalink> ok
[09:40] <adreanalink> so what's the goal installing with make?
[09:42] <tsimpson> just read the link, it shows instructions
[09:43] <adreanalink> yes, it says to me how can I install with checkinstall and I will use it surely
[09:44] <adreanalink> but now I would know the goal of the make command, thus in the link it says it's not reccomended
[09:53] <sagaci> what's the equiv for gconf-editor in oneiric
[10:02] <jbicha> sagaci: some settings are still in gconf-editor, others are in dconf-editor
[10:03] <sagaci> jbicha: thanks for the advice
[11:52] <jita> if i only do programming in django/python and use vim mostly, could i install alpha 3 without having problems ?
[11:53] <bazhang> jita, well it's alpha, so the usual caveats
[11:53] <jita> ok will stick with 11.04 for the time being
[11:53] <jita> bazhang: do you recommend doing dist-upgrade on 11.04 ?
[11:53] <bazhang> jita, the previous alpha worked wonderfully well for me, best to keep on th e lookoout here for problems if you do
[11:54] <bazhang> jita, version upgrade you mean?
[11:54] <bazhang> !dist-upgrade
[11:54] <jita> bazhang: i havent changed the sources yet
[11:54] <jita> bazhang: no it only shows the upgrading of kernel
[11:55] <bazhang> jita, thats not the way to do it
[11:55] <jita> bazhang: so you dont recommend doing dist-upgrade only apt-get upgrade ?
[11:56] <jita> bazhang: i dont want to upgrade to alpha
[11:56] <bazhang> jita, from 11.04 to 11.10?
[11:56] <jita> bazhang: no i dont want to upgrade to 11.10
[11:56] <bazhang> dist-upgrade has Zero to do with version upgrade
[11:56] <jita> bazhang: should i use it on 11.04 ?
[11:56] <bazhang> jita, are packages held back?
[11:57] <jita> bazhang: yes kernel
[11:57] <jita> bazhang: newer one is available
[11:57] <bazhang> jita, which one
[11:57] <jita> bazhang: 2.6.38 i guess
[11:57] <bazhang> lsb_release -a in terminal please
[11:59] <jita> bazhang: no lsb modules, natty 11.04
[12:00] <bazhang> jita, sure, if you wish, or just wait for the other packages
[12:00] <jita> bazhang: wait for the other packages ?
[12:00] <bazhang> jita, the ones causing the holding back
[12:01] <jita> bazhang: currently 2.6.38-8 is installed and 2.6.38-10 is available using dist-upgrade
[12:01] <bazhang> jita, your choice really.
[12:01] <jita> bazhang: would you do it ?
[12:02] <bazhang> jita, probably not, I'd just wait a day or two for the other packages to arrive, then do the whole lot
[12:04] <jita> bazhang: apt-get upgrade never installs newer kernels ?
[12:05] <bazhang> jita, sure it does.
[12:05] <jita> bazhang: why doesnt it install 2.6.38-10 then ?
[12:05] <bazhang> jita, held back?
[12:06] <Trewas> jita: kernel versions usually change the package name, so dist-upgrade is required
[12:06] <jita> Trewas: is it advised to do that ?
[12:06] <iceroot> jita: bazhang apt-get upgrade does not install new kernels
[12:06] <iceroot> jita: bazhang just apt-get dist-upgrade does
[12:07] <Trewas> jita: well yes, otherwise you won't get the new kernel
[12:07] <sagaci> just wondering if there's any workarounds for the automatic login bug, where it doesn't autologin, even if you set it to AL
[12:35] <BUGabundo> guud afternuun fluks
[13:34] <diverse_izzue> as of today, i can't login to gnome, just to unity. is it maybe because of today's update to gnome-session? anyone else with that problem?
[13:38] <oimon> diverse_izzue: i seem to have the same problem as you
[13:41] <diverse_izzue> oimon, thanks for the confirmation. also, does login take longer than it used to?
[13:42] <oimon> diverse_izzue: i saw the wallpaper for a long time then the nautilus menu appeared , but no gnome-panel etc
[13:42] <diverse_izzue> oimon, exactly the same here
[13:42] <diverse_izzue> ok, i'll report a bug
[13:43] <oimon> hmm now my unity isn't logging in..
[13:43] <oimon> ah here it is ..took a long time
[13:43] <diverse_izzue> oimon, that's what i meant :-)
[13:45] <diverse_izzue> oimon, #821477 maybe you can give it an "affects me too"
[13:45] <oimon> bug 821477
[13:48] <diverse_izzue> waaaaaah ,my dear gnome-shell!
[13:51] <oimon> i still see a battery icon in unity althoguh i have a desktop :-\
[13:51] <h00k> oimon: I have the same thing, yep ;)
[13:51] <oimon> wondering if it's intended, but will be replaced with a better icon
[13:52] <h00k> It doesn't make sense on a desktop
[13:52] <oimon> i'll raise a bug
[13:53] <h00k> I wasn't sure what to file it against
[13:58] <oimon> h00k: good point
[13:58] <oimon> been looking through gsettings but can't find a way to tell it that it's a desktop
[14:02] <oimon> i assume gnome-power-manager?
[14:04] <BUGabundo> why why oh why!!!
[14:04] <BUGabundo> why is chromium using over 5GBs of ram???
[14:04] <BUGabundo> I want my RAM back!!!!! https://plus.google.com/110546133384368429145/posts/4DjriLZaUNF
[14:05] <coz_> BUGabundo,  i got a  "404" on that link :(
[14:05] <BUGabundo> coz_: what's your Plus id?
[14:06] <coz_> oh
[14:06] <BUGabundo> s/id/handler/
[14:06] <oimon> was it a rhetorical quiestion? because about:memory tells u why :)
[14:06] <patdk-wk> heh, stil lbetter than my firefox using 24gigs
[14:07] <patdk-wk> oimon, you have a ups connected?
[14:07] <oimon> patdk-wk: nope
[14:07] <patdk-wk>  Ialways get the battery icon on my systems with the usb ups cable plugged in
[14:08] <oimon> (gnome-settings-daemon:1420): power-plugin-WARNING **: not connected
[14:08] <oimon> i get this in .xsession-errors
[14:08] <oimon> i think it affects all desktop users
[14:08] <BUGabundo> oimon: if I could even use my laptop before I killed it !!
[14:34] <TomSlominski> hello. I just upgraded from 11.04 to 11.10, and my PC hangs on boot with: "Checking battery state..."
[14:35] <TomSlominski> I don't even have a battery.
[14:35] <BUGabundo> TomSlominski: I had that long ago... it fixed itself
[14:35] <BUGabundo> using a daily image?
[14:36] <TomSlominski> no, update-manager -d
[14:36] <BUGabundo> right
[14:36] <BUGabundo> beats me
[14:36] <BUGabundo> try in recovery mode
[14:37] <TomSlominski> okay
[14:39] <TomSlominski> its loading really slowly... my PC has been behaving weird recently, i think my processor might have exploded or something.
[14:40] <TomSlominski> I am loving the recovery background! :D Am I just resuming now?
[14:41] <charlie-tca> update/clean packages first
[14:41] <charlie-tca> or is it fix broken packages, maybe, then clean
[14:42] <TomSlominski> charlie-tca: "dpkg Repair broken packages"?
[14:42] <charlie-tca> sounds right
[14:42] <charlie-tca> it just goes and looks for updates, if nothing is broken.
[14:44] <TomSlominski> okay, should I resume normal boot now?
[14:46] <TomSlominski> okay, i resumed and ive got a text login prompt. ill login and try to start lightdm
[14:46] <hv> few questions re oneiric: 1. Has aptitude become noticably slower? 2. Is "man gsettings" broken?
[14:48] <charlie-tca> TomSlominski: MIght have to do a restart yet.
[14:48] <TomSlominski> it lives!
[14:48] <charlie-tca> hv: No manual entry for gsettings
[14:48] <TomSlominski> I think it's really weird how Ubuntu sees some wi-fi networks without having Wi-Fi hardware connected to it.
[14:49] <charlie-tca> hv: I try not to use aptitude
[14:49] <TomSlominski> wow, Unity is so much faster than Gnome 3.
[14:49] <hv> hv: why? what is wrong with aptitude?
[14:49] <charlie-tca> For me? It is much easier to use apt-get or synaptic package manager
[14:49] <hv> oops!
[14:50] <hv> *facepalm*
[14:50] <Bronek> I am just burn U 10.10! :)
[14:50] <hv> Bronek: you mean 11.10?
[14:50] <Bronek> *burning
[14:50] <Bronek> sorry 11.10 :p
[14:51] <escott> i just updated from 11.04 to alpha my laptop which has btrfs on /. because btrfsck is useless I had removed the symlink from fsck.btrfs to btrfsck which made the 11.04 boot skip the check, but now the 11.10 boot is complaining. any idea why that would be
[14:51] <Pici> hv: I'm not on Oneiric on this computer, but manpages.ubuntu.com claims that the manpage for 'gsettings' exists, but it appars to be blank. Is that what you're seeing?
[14:52] <spacebug-> will there be no option to use a screensaver or to never set the screen to go blank in 11.10 ? (all I can see is to just let it go blank and that option you cannot disable just set different times)
[14:53] <hv> /usr/share/man/man1/gsettings.1.gz says Man generation disabled. ...
[14:54] <hv> where would the manual be then?
[14:54] <Pici> hv: I'd file a bug, unless its mentioned in the changelogs since the version in natty.
[14:55] <hv> against libglib2.0-bin?
[14:55] <Pici> Yes.
[14:55] <hv> sure.
[15:05] <hv> gnome-panels are totoally gone, right? I need just one panel that apparently didn't make it to Unity, [yet].  It is the one corresponding to gnome-system-monitor, which shows CPU/Network/Mem/etc usage. Perhaps you know about it or maybe there is an alternative?
[15:06]  * patdk-wk so far can't stand unity or gnome3
[15:07] <patdk-wk> and still using gnome-panel in oneiric
[15:07] <hv> patdk-wk: how?
[15:07] <hv> what do you install to get them?
[15:08] <patdk-wk> thought I just installed gnome-panel
[15:08] <hv> oh, and with which session type?
[15:09]  * patdk-wk finds where he put 11.10
[15:10] <hv> btw, what happened to "User defined session"s? I have a ~/.xsession but noone seems to pick it up.
[15:10] <patdk-wk> gnome classic
[15:22] <TomSlominski> is there any way to configure the ubuntu panel?
[15:23] <TomSlominski> unity*
[15:23] <hv> +1 !
[15:25] <TomSlominski> hmm? I am running 11.10
[15:25] <hv> TomSlominski: I mean I would be happy, too, if someone answered that question
[15:25] <TomSlominski> hv: Oh, right :D
[15:26] <hv> TomSlominski: btw, what would you like to change? add new items to the "panel"?
[15:26] <TomSlominski> hv: stop it from autohiding
[15:26] <hv> the left panel you mean? there was a setting for that
[15:26] <TomSlominski> hv: yeah
[15:27] <hv> I could access it in gconf-editor. I am looking to find that setting in gsettings which does not have a manual, yet.
[15:27] <hv> I am looking for the same thing, as we speak!
[15:30] <TomSlominski> Right, time to sort out GRUB :)
[15:33] <hv> TomSlominski: Apparently settings are now kept in ~/.config/dconf/user which is a binary file. Gonna find out how to access this database ...
[15:34] <TomSlominski> hv: there is a way of accessing dconf, I think. let me get my Linux Format out :)
[15:35] <hv> installing dconf-tools ...
[15:36] <TomSlominski> hv: apparetnly there is a "gsettings command line tool"
[15:37] <hv> TomSlominski: yeah, but I cannot find the manual for gsettings
[15:37] <TomSlominski> and you can do things like: "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theeme 'Clearlooks'"
[15:38] <TomSlominski> hv: I'm under Fedora 15 right now and I've got the manual for gsettings
[15:39] <TomSlominski> hv: is there any way to export it?
[15:39] <hv> I guess gsettings is kinda modelled after "defaults" in OSX.
[15:40] <hv> which implies it is fast, and you should access it through "gsettings COMMMAND ..." commands
[15:40] <hv> dconf-editor from the package dconf-tools is good so far.
[15:40] <hv> I just need to find the name of the key
[15:41] <hv> can you upload the man page somewhere? (probably the file /usr/share/man/man1/gsettings.1.gz)
[15:42] <hv> or actually, let me search for it online ...
[15:43] <hv> ok, found one, nevermind
[15:50] <hv> got to blow up dconf imported keys (from gconf). brb.
[16:58] <epifanio> hi all
[16:58] <epifanio> can i receive support about ubuntu 11.10 here ?
[16:59] <epifanio> after an apt-get update , upgrade .. it stop to works (before it was working) i'm on a macbookpro 2.2
[16:59] <epifanio> i instaslled the mac iso image
[16:59] <epifanio> .. the problem is the battery check step (i know my battery is in a bad state .. but it's really odd it doesn't allow me to boot)
[17:00] <epifanio>  it stop the boot promp at the step : check battery state
[17:01] <jtaylor> when did you upgrade?
[17:01] <charlie-tca> epifanio: boot to recovery mode and try "dpkg Repair broken packages"
[17:03] <epifanio> charlie-tca: what's the syntax to use in the shell ?
[17:04] <charlie-tca> you don't get a recovery menu?
[17:04] <epifanio> iìm in root shell
[17:04] <epifanio> with networking
[17:04] <charlie-tca> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[17:05] <epifanio> ok tring
[17:05] <charlie-tca> I think that does almost the same as repair in the menu
[17:05] <jtaylor> make sure lightdm-greeter-gtk is installed
[17:06] <charlie-tca> good point, that needs to be there too
[17:16] <jakemp> suspend doesn't seem to be working too well for me.
[17:18] <dsathe> yeah A BUG
[17:19] <dsathe> how do i get adwaita to work on oneric ?
[17:20] <dsathe> sans the not so pretty windo borders of the light themes
[17:23] <epifanio> i tried to do upgrade dist-upgrade .. at boot i have again "checking battery state and no boot"
[17:23] <epifanio> i didn't find a opackage lightdm-greeter-gtk
[17:24] <dsathe> epifanio:
[17:24] <dsathe> drop to tty1
[17:24] <dsathe> fire x
[17:24] <dsathe> using startx for now
[17:24] <dsathe> :D
[17:24] <dsathe> then go fix it
[17:28] <epifanio> dsathe: how to drop to tty1 ?  i tried ctrl+alt+f1 .. but doesn't work, i'm in the root shell with networking
[17:29] <epifanio> ok
[17:30] <epifanio> i did it .. i'm logged in and X is working
[17:30] <epifanio> dsath : what about the step "then go to fix it"
[17:31] <epifanio> thanks to suggest me startx !!! i did it from root :  su username ; startx
[17:37] <guest-fPtt7c> peps, i've a problem i cannot enter neither unity shell nor gnome-shell
[17:38] <guest-fPtt7c> just a blackscreen appears-(the cursor doesn't move), but i can acces from guest acount
[17:38] <dsathe> install gtk-lightdm greater
[17:38] <dsathe> not too sure of exact package name
[17:38] <dsathe> look for it in synaptic
[17:42] <guest-fPtt7c> someone knows hot to determinate the problem?
[17:43] <charlie-tca> epifanio: lightdm-gtk-greeter is the real name
[17:43] <epifanio> thanks!
[17:45] <jamesbond2> hi, how can I install non patched upstream packages?
[17:47] <h00k> jamesbond2: er, like...old packages? or, what do you mean?
[17:48] <jamesbond2> i need do some testing for gnome because of a bug
[17:54] <tensorpudding> the alpha 3 repos are up, right?
[17:54] <tensorpudding> update-manager -d can't find the new release
[17:54] <epifanio> now all works fine, thank you very much to All for your powerfull support!!!
[17:54] <dsathe> :)
[19:18] <om26er> is there a workaround or something for the cursor movement delay after key press???
[19:18] <om26er> cursor does not move for a second or so :/
[19:18] <om26er> its gnome specific, does not happen in KDE
[19:36] <guest-m9hLDG> i cannot enter neither unity shell nor gnome shell, i always get a black screen, but i can use the guest session.hpw i determine what's the problem?
[19:40] <hv> guest-m9hLDG: for me, it took a long time before either of those work for the first time. is your hard disk led blinking while the screen is blank?
[19:41] <guest-m9hLDG> hv, no
[19:42] <guest-m9hLDG> hv, i've use gnome-shell it was working a few days ago
[19:43] <hv> perhaps you need to move your old configurations out of the way. at least temporarily move ~/.config, ~/.gconf, ~/.local to another directory, try again, and see if it is still the same.  Also look at ~/.xsession-errors and see if you find any clues there.
[19:43] <guest-m9hLDG> hv, ok, wait a while
[19:44] <hv> first check the ~/.xsession-errors, though
[19:44] <guest-m9hLDG> hv,  it doesn't exist
[19:44] <guest-m9hLDG> i cannot move my folders because of i'm in a guest session
[19:44] <guest-m9hLDG> will try to do in console mode
[19:48] <guest-m9hLDG> hv, done, i'll reboot
[19:54] <guest-I271GZ> hv, didn't work, still get black screen
[20:18] <MistaMaze> hi all
[20:19] <BUGabundo> hey MistaMaze
[20:19] <MistaMaze> is it possible to use gnome3 without the shell but with the gnome-panel in oneiric?
[20:19] <MistaMaze> to have gnome-core3 but gnome2-feeling?
[20:20] <trism> MistaMaze: install gnome-session-fallback and then select Gnome Classic on the login screen
[20:20] <MistaMaze> that's all?
[20:21] <trism> MistaMaze: yes, assuming you have a default ubuntu-desktop install of oneiric
[20:21] <MistaMaze> i like to get rid of these nasty unity/gnome-shell crap (but need newest ubuntu version for full sandy bridge support)
[20:22] <MistaMaze> and other desktops (fvwm,awesome,kde) didnet attract me that well
[20:23] <MistaMaze> thanks trism for ya help
[20:24] <MistaMaze> i will give a try on this fallback-packet
[20:24] <MistaMaze> bye
[20:33] <MistaMatze> hello again
[20:37] <MistaMatze> gnome-session-fallback worked fine. is it also possible to get my old gnome2-look back? do i need to install more packages for this?
[20:38] <Daekdroom> Nope, it's not possible.
[20:38] <Daekdroom> The old gnome-panel is replaced for good and the current one is what you get in gnome-session-fallback
[20:38] <Daekdroom> That is, not customizable and mimetizing gnome shell
[20:39] <MistaMatze> ok
[20:39] <rww> holding down Alt while right-clicking things in gnome-panel 3 tends to be useful, btw
[20:41] <xxy> how do I run Gnome3 in Ubuntu 11.10 ?   I know I need gnome-shell package installed.. I can see that lightDM has option gnome from it sessions.. But what do I miss?  I still can't get it working
[20:41] <dr_willis> cant get it working here either xxy . gnome session here just loaded Unity.
[20:42] <xxy> dr_willis: here it doesn't even load unity. It seems to try loading some fallback for Gnome3 (something like gnome 2.30) but it can't load that as well
[20:43] <dr_willis> gnome3 is still a work in progress i guess
[20:45] <rww> ubuntu dev releases aren't generally usable for me until beta or RC anyway :P
[20:54] <BUGabundo> rww: LIES!!!!!!
[20:54] <rww> as you can all see, using crack builds of Ubuntu may render you less than sane.
[20:55] <BUGabundo> :)
[20:56] <h00k> funkyHat: said stable software is for grandparents and servers.
[20:56] <BUGabundo> h00k: don't say that
[20:56] <BUGabundo> I've been hammering  qMail for the past few hours
[20:57] <h00k> BUGabundo: That's what funkyHat said!
[20:58] <BUGabundo> h00k: what do you and funkyHat have against charlie-tca ? :O
[20:58] <h00k> BUGabundo: notta thing :)
[21:43] <jbicha> Daekdroom: /j #dyne
[21:43] <jbicha> sorry aobut
[21:43] <Daekdroom> What?
[21:43] <jbicha> I can't type today
[21:43] <jbicha> sorry about that
[21:45] <Hanmac> i had an new problem my system does not find my onboard soundcard anymore ... dmesg does not show me any sound or audio .... and dkms has problems with its conf so i can not build the images again
[22:47] <guest-I271GZ> ang1234
[22:48] <BUGabundo> nice passworkd guest-I271GZ
[22:48] <guest-I271GZ> is for bringing attentio to me :)
[22:49] <guest-I271GZ> i cannot star my session, neither unity nor gnome-shell i just shows a black screen and my cursor, i can acces by the guest acount but i don't know what could be the problem of my session
[22:51] <jbicha> guest-I271GZ: one thing you could try is to install gdm and set it as your default dm, then reboot
[22:51] <guest-I271GZ> jbicha, ok, i will
[22:53] <guest-I271GZ> i have matters to attend, will be back in an hour
[23:04] <Guest77313> Hi


[00:49] <slangasek> barry, cjwatson: how is the update-manager build supposed to work with python3-distutils-extra + debhelper?  Attempting a simple build fails if python is present at all, because debhelper picks /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/python_distutils.pm for the buildsystem which invokes python, not python3
[00:50] <slangasek> and this doesn't seem to be anything that's changed recently in any of the related packages...
[00:53] <slangasek> oh, I see; the package has overrides that bypass this for dh_auto_{build,install} but not _clean, heh
[00:53]  * slangasek passes -nc :P
[00:55] <slangasek> hmm, still fails, because it calls dh_auto_install rather than completely bypassing it
[00:55] <slangasek> stgraber: ^^ looks like you did much of the python3 changes initially?  any thoughts here on what I'm missing?
[00:57] <slangasek> perhaps I'll just switch to pybuild
[00:57] <stgraber> slangasek: hmm, I last touched it during the python3 sprint but it's an mvo package, so you need to make sure to run the script that's in the branch (can't remember the name, sorry) and then use bzr bd to trigger the build
[00:57] <stgraber> I don't remember having to do anything else back then
[00:57] <slangasek> well, this branch no longer has a pre-build script
[00:58] <stgraber> ah, ok, I guess that's a good thing ;)
[00:58] <slangasek> that went away back in June when mterry split the branches
[00:58] <slangasek> so I think I can just condense debian/rules down to "dh $@ --with=python3 --buildsystem=pybuild" now... but I really have no idea why this stopped working
[01:00] <barry> slangasek: i haven't tried building it in a while, but i hated that pre-build script. :/   +1 for --buildsystem=pybuild, and i have no idea why it's stopped working recently either
[01:01] <cjwatson> Me neither; I thought I was fairly careful to get all the overrides right
[01:02] <slangasek> well, launchpad was ok with your overrides at the time you uploaded :)
[01:02] <slangasek> but it definitely fails for me now
[01:05] <barry> slangasek: local sbuild from trunk branch is happy
[01:05] <slangasek> hmmm
[01:05] <slangasek> furthermore, building with pybuild gives a failure because it can't find debian/tmp/usr/share/locale... but I don't see anything that installs that
[01:06] <barry> slangasek: you're seeing buildd failures?
[01:07] <slangasek> barry: no, local failures; not a pristine sbuild, I'm trying to bzr bd in a chroot
[01:07] <slangasek> (so python is installed, since bzr needs python)
[01:07] <barry> slangasek: i'm not sure i'd call my local raring chroot "pristine" ;)
[01:07] <barry> but it's *fairly* sparse
[01:10] <slangasek> right, so if I build in an env with no /usr/bin/python, it /happens/ to build successfully
[01:11] <barry> slangasek: wow.  and indeed, my chroot does not have /u/b/py
[04:49] <pitti> Good morning
[06:47] <dholbach> good morning
[06:49] <alkisg> Good morning
[07:11] <alkisg> I'm trying to solve a bug in LTSP that might even result in data loss... could someone point me on how to write a cleanup handler for an X application (called LDM) that runs even if Xorg crashes (in which case I think Xorg kills all its childs) ?
[07:12] <alkisg> It doesn't look like an atexit() handler would do, would I need a TERM signal handler instead?
[08:00] <kieppie1> cjwatson: re unified experience - that was my impression too. I'm just curious re the underlying tech that would achieve that.
[09:38]  * Laney prods SpamapS with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/1074606/comments/19
[09:39] <Laney> It's not an accident - this is new-ish behaviour; it's correct to upload with just the bare release as the target
[10:36] <pitti> @pilot in
[10:39] <TheMuso> diwic: Good catch. at one point I remember thinking that all used vlc, but I didn't really make the connection.
[10:41] <diwic> TheMuso, I'm uploading a fix for those two (1129990 and 1127872) within an hour
[10:41] <TheMuso> Ok great.
[10:41] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[10:41] <diwic> TheMuso, but while troubleshooting I discovered that autospawn seems to have stopped working, can you confirm that?
[10:42] <diwic> TheMuso, I also discovered that PA does not work at all on guest accounts due to just filed bug 1131139
[10:42] <TheMuso> diwic: Afaik autospawning works fine, as thats how pulse is brought up, at lesat I think so...
[10:43] <TheMuso> But I'll try and manually confirm in a bit on a text console when I'm logged out.
[10:44] <diwic> TheMuso, just execute "pulseaudio -k", then try to use pulse and see if it autostarts
[10:45] <TheMuso> Ok.
[10:45] <TheMuso> Yes.
[10:45] <TheMuso> It does.
[10:46] <TheMuso> But I am using the completely new pulse config here, I have nothing to do with pulse in my home dir.
[10:46] <diwic> TheMuso, ok, good. Then I probably screwed up something here.
[10:47] <TheMuso> I/c
[10:49] <diwic> ok, 0ubuntu3 uploaded
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: WDYT about bug 1130956?
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: specifically, moving leaf packages to 3.8 if they work with our 3.6 base
[10:51] <TheMuso> I/c
[10:52] <seb128> pitti, I'm fine updating as long as the people doing the update keep up with the bugs due to the unstable version they upload
[10:52] <seb128> pitti, g-s-m is fine, I would like to avoid e.g nautilus until 3.8 stable
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: yeah, absolutely (that bug mentions this also)
[10:53] <seb128> pitti, wfm then ;-)
[10:57] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; it's API/ABI freeze now and all that, so 3.8 should work as well
[10:58] <seb128> cool
[11:21] <ricotz> seb128, pitti, hi :)
[11:21] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[11:21] <ricotz> oh , 3.8 apps in raring
[11:24] <ricotz> seb128, btw, gtk 2.24.16 is probably a candidate for raring?
[11:25] <seb128> ricotz, yeah, it's in the desktop team ppa, I was planning to land that with attente's unity menu work
[11:25] <ricotz> ah, i see
[11:25] <ricotz> good
[11:26] <pitti> hye ricotz, wie gehts?
[11:28] <ricotz> pitti, hey, danke gut!
[11:28] <ricotz> und dir?
[11:29] <ricotz> pitti, i was tempted to ask if you could give those build a little bump https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+builds
[11:29] <ricotz> pitti, btw is the /media vs /run/media patch in udisk2 still wanted?
[11:32] <pitti> ricotz: yes, slangasek was rather adamant on keeping /media/
[11:32] <pitti> ricotz: it could soon be superseded by a better solution, though; some days ago there was some discussion on the ML about this topic, but I don't think that landed already
[11:33] <pitti> ricotz: oh, you packaged current udisks? that was on my TODO list in a week or two, I'll look at your pacakges then
[11:35] <pitti> dholbach: are you already sponsoring https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/raring/cpptest/1.1.2-0ubuntu1/+merge/149667 (as you committed recently), or want me to?
[11:35] <ricotz> pitti, it is there for some time, it was already needed for an ealier gnome-dist-util version
[11:37] <ricotz> pitti, due some refactoring a huge part of the media-patch gone obsolete (i could be wrong here though)
[11:38] <pitti> ricotz: I guess it's not that important for the gnome 3 ppa
[11:39] <ricotz> pitti, it working fine afaics, the actual run/media>media change is still present and working
[11:40] <pitti> ricotz: ah, I guess David may have refactored that because he wanted to support a new udev property UDISKS_USE_MEDIA or so
[11:40] <pitti> ricotz: that's what I meant with "going to become much eaiser"
[11:41] <ricotz> pitti, alright
[11:52] <dholbach> pitti, I sponsored it already
[11:52] <pitti> dholbach: ah, you didn't push the merge then, I guess; I'll mark it as merged
[11:53] <dholbach> thanks pitti
[12:38] <zyga> hey, I have a patch for pastebinit to work in python3 venv, the patch fixes the shebang line from "/usr/bin/env python" to "/usr/bin/python". I made the patch to current raring package using quilt, how can I contribute that and get it applied to raring
[12:40] <zyga> I also added a debian/changelog entry and tested the package
[12:44] <asac> zyga: from looking at changelogs i would talk to stgraber for pointers
[12:45] <asac> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pastebinit/+changelog
[12:45] <zyga> stgraber: ping
[12:45] <zyga> I made a debdiff
[12:46] <zyga> stgraber: I'm not exactly sure what to do next, the debdiff is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/1698728/
[12:53] <asac> zyga: the official answer is most likely to read and follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[12:56] <zyga> asac: sorry, having read that page I don't know what to do, should I start with the lp:ubuntu/... package and re-do the change so that I can submit a merge request?
[12:58] <asac> The traditional process involves:
[12:58] <asac>  1. File an Ubuntu bug in Launchpad
[12:58] <asac>  2. Attach your work  (note: debdiff is one option there)
[12:58] <asac>  3. Subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[13:00] <asac> from that point on the process should automatically unfold through discussion in bug. if nothing happens for a while, a gentle ping of last uploader asking for help is appropriate
[13:01] <zyga> asac: ah, thanks
[13:03] <asac> zyga: thats copied out of the wiki page btw
[13:17] <hrw> zyga: and that's best way to do such stuff
[13:17] <hrw> zyga: not everyone tracks irc whole day
[13:34] <bryceh> zyga, looks like pitti is the patch pilot today; if you get stuck, or when you think you're ready for review, you can (should) ping him
[13:35] <bryceh> (see topic)
[13:36] <pitti> zyga: sure, I can upload that
[13:36] <pitti> zyga: but please forward this upstream, too
[13:39] <zyga> pitti: this is not an upstream bug
[13:39] <zyga> pitti: this is just the packaging, normally debhelper patches that but here it's not detecting this as a python package
[13:40] <zyga> pitti: I'll open a merge request after the meeting now
[13:41] <zyga> pitti: I suspect there's a ton of identical issues in other packages
[13:42] <zyga> hrw, bryceh: yeah, thanks, I was looking for input on how to contribute that
[13:43] <pitti> right, in general packaged python scripts should use /usr/bin/python..., not env
[13:43] <zyga> right
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Hello. Can somebody try to tell me what was wrong in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/131963515/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.calligra_1%3A2.6.1-0ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
[13:43] <pitti> zyga: no MP necessary, the patch is fine
[13:44] <pitti> zyga: I'm worried about adding the patch, not the form in which to sponsor it
[13:44] <smartboyhw> Only one make[1]: *** [all] Error doesn't help...
[13:44] <pitti> zyga: it's this kind of annoying patches which we have to carry forever unless we agree with upstream what the shebang should be like
[13:44] <pitti> and it's not really a blocker for running with py3, you can just run python3 pastebinit, after all
[13:44] <zyga> pitti: but the shebang _is_ right upstream, it's a bug in debhelper not fixing all scripts this way
[13:45] <zyga> pitti: it's not a problem with python3, only with virtualenv -p python3
[13:45] <pitti> zyga: if debhelper changes the hashbang to use env, how does the patch help then?
[13:45] <zyga> pitti: where it breaks because python == python3
[13:45] <pitti> eh?
[13:45] <pitti> python == python3 is really wrong
[13:45] <zyga> pitti: it does for python packages, it does not look at all scripts to check
[13:45] <bryceh> smartboyhw, /usr/include/qt4/QtWebKit/qwebpage.h:1:55: fatal error: ../../../../Source/WebKit/qt/Api/qwebpage.h: No such file or directory
[13:45] <pitti> that's what Arch is doing, and it's just plain broken
[13:45] <zyga> pitti: that's virtualenv
[13:46] <pitti> zyga: we better fix that then IMHO
[13:46] <zyga> pitti: virtualenv -p python3 /tmp/omg &&  . /tmp/omg/bin/activate
[13:46] <pitti> python != python3
[13:46] <zyga> pitti: that's specified upstream behavior, python3 does that too
[13:46] <pitti> no, it's not
[13:46] <zyga> pitti: the real problem is in packaging I'm afraid
[13:46] <pitti> unfortunately the PEP does not explicitly forbid it
[13:46] <pitti> but the only ones guaranteed are "python2" and "python3"
[13:47] <pitti> if something calls "python" and gets python3, we cannot blame that something
[13:48] <zyga> pitti: still, it's broken in terms of our own policy
[13:48] <zyga> pitti: I'm glad to work on dh to actually fix that on arbitrary executable scripts
[13:50] <zyga> pitti: that would make this patch obsolete
[13:50] <zyga> pitti: note that many python developers use virtualenv (especially non-system developers) and this breaks a very popular program in practice
[13:50] <pitti> or fixing virtualenv
[13:51] <zyga> pitti: on the upside python3 is not really common yet
[13:51] <zyga> pitti: I can check if that's a vaiable fix but I suspect that'd be a patch for virtualenv that we carry and a difference from all other systems, I'm not sure we want that either
[13:51] <zyga> pitti: though I agree that virtualenv behavior is annoying
[13:51] <zyga> pitti: I'll ask virtualenv upstream
[13:51] <pitti> no, that's certainly something to fix in virtualenv upstream
[13:53] <zyga> pitti: would you be happy with dh automatically patching all 'env python' to 'python' scripts?
[13:53] <pitti> but even if we have to patch it there, it's IMHO better to patch in one place than in lots of packages
[13:54] <pitti> zyga: if that's the right thing to do, not 100% sure; barry, ScottK, any opinion about changing #!/usr/bin/env python hashbangs automatically?
[13:55] <zyga> (me talks to virtualenv commiter he knows)
[13:56] <ScottK> pitti: It kind of depends.  For "normal" python packages that makes sense.  For things developers use, they may want to override that somehow.   I think barry is the best person to ask.
[13:57] <pitti> I guess the root of all evil is http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
[13:57] <pitti> "python should refer to the same target as python2 but may refer to python3 on some bleeding edge distributions"
[13:57] <pitti> that's quite frankly just plain stupid
[13:57] <zyga> pitti: note
[13:57] <pitti> as some distros like arch, and maybe the virtualenv authors will refer to that
[13:57] <zyga> pitti: that's python3.3 behavior
[13:58] <pitti> as that essentially invalidates "python" to be anything meaningful
[13:58] <zyga> pitti: run pyvenv-3.3
[13:58] <zyga> pitti: well, in a way it's sensible outside of unix+packages world
[13:58] <pitti> so in theory everything needs to say "python2" or "python3" now
[13:58] <zyga> pitti: you install "that python" and "python.exe" is "that python"
[13:58] <pitti> unless you carefully port your py2 programs to work on both py2 and py3
[13:58] <zyga> pitti: but it's already larger than virtualenv as python3.3 with standardized virtualenvs is what we have in the future
[13:58] <pitti> but it breaks pretty much every non-ported python2 program out there
[13:59] <zyga> pitti: note that shebang was not something that was in python scope until python3.3
[13:59] <zyga> pitti: not python2 or python3, but system packages must use an absolute path for the interpreter
[13:59] <pitti> zyga: yeah, that PEP is quite recent, 2011
[13:59] <zyga> yes
[13:59] <zyga> pitti: note that it also fixes shebangs on windows
[13:59] <pitti> zyga: no, that's not the problem; "/usr/bin/env python" should still get you python 2.x
[14:00] <pitti> (it might not be policy compliant for other reasons, that's my question to barry)
[14:00] <zyga> pitti: in theory yes but look that all windows releases have 'python.exe'
[14:00] <zyga> pitti: so no version-encoded executabales
[14:00] <pitti> well, same problem
[14:00] <zyga> pitti: 3.3 fixes that a bit
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: with a new program that interpretes shebangs for python
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: to work for 2.* - 3.*
[14:01] <pitti> zyga: it looks at the source code and tries to figure out whether it's for py2 or 3?
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: sadly it's something we've been doing but that's not "the python way", so the solution might be painful
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: no, it reads the shebang
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: and the shebang is special
[14:01] <zyga> pitti: let me show you the spec
[14:01] <pitti> but that's the one that they just invalidated as a reliable source of information
[14:02] <zyga> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
[14:02] <pitti> the root cause is that py3 breaks compat with py2 in many ways, i. e. it is really a new language
[14:02] <pitti> so you can't call it like the old one
[14:02] <zyga> pitti: scroll down to "Shebang line parsing"
[14:02] <zyga> pitti: that's true
[14:02] <zyga> pitti: I think we really need barry to tell us his opinion
[14:03] <pitti> zyga: well, that shebang line parsing is ceratinly helpful
[14:03] <zyga> pitti: at this time, we'd have to patch virtualenv and python3.3+ to fix this
[14:03] <pitti> but it seems orthogonal to determining for which python version a program is
[14:03] <zyga> pitti: actually
[14:03] <zyga> pitti: could we do something as crazy as binfmt support to use 3.3 launcher on all python files?
[14:03] <pitti> wouldn't that even aggravate the problem?
[14:04] <zyga> pitti: it does support python2 versions
[14:04] <pitti> we can't run any py2 program through py3
[14:04] <zyga> pitti: that launcher just re-exes the right version of pytohn
[14:04] <pitti> how does it determine the right version?
[14:04] <pitti> if the hashbang says "python", then you really could just guess
[14:04] <zyga> pitti: according to the spec
[14:04] <pitti> (in the world of PEP-394)
[14:04] <zyga> pitti: I don't know off the top of my head
[14:05] <pitti> in the actual world, python has meant 2.x for years
[14:05] <pitti> (which again is why PEP-394 is broken)
[14:06] <zyga> pitti: yeah but we need to deal with 'bug that became a feature' unless we can fix it upstream somehow
[14:07] <zyga> pitti: it says that /usr/bin/python2 automatically locates python2.* installation
[14:07] <zyga> pitti: it's pretty long, I'm in a meeting, let me read that in the background
[14:07] <zyga> pitti: ping me if barry sends a word
[14:09] <pitti> zyga: yes, no problem with "python2" and "python3"
[14:23] <Snow-Man> pitti: think any more about having clusters able to use the same port? :)
[14:24] <pitti> Snow-Man: not recently
[14:24] <Snow-Man> it's frustrating to not be able to use the cluster tools. :/
[14:26] <stgraber> pitti,zyga: IIRC I already switched to /usr/bin/python3 in current upstream trunk
[14:27] <vibhav> Apparently, python is somewhat broken in Raring
[14:27] <vibhav> os.sync() is broken
[14:28] <pitti> indeed
[14:28] <vibhav> Can anyone review https://code.launchpad.net/~jderose/ubuntu/raring/python3.3/fix-1131183/+merge/149838
[14:29] <vibhav> Jason has submitted a fix
[14:29] <stgraber> pitti,zyga: next release of pastebinit will be python3 only with /usr/bin/python3 as shebang. I don't really have an ETA though as I'm not spending much time on it usually
[14:29] <zyga> stgraber: cool, thanks
[14:30] <pitti> vibhav: thanks
[14:30] <vibhav> pitti: thank Jason DeRose :)
[14:44] <mitya57> dholbach: so docutils support for named links has landed! ... and I'm going to backport it to raring
[14:45] <dholbach> mitya57, great
[14:45] <mitya57> (though it's a bit ugly `like this <ref_>`_)
[14:45] <mitya57> ah, and I also wanted to do a sphinx sru
[14:45] <dholbach> mitya57, ubuntu-packaging-guide ftbfs right now - did you see the build log?
[14:45] <mitya57> dholbach: I've fixed it yesterday
[14:46] <dholbach> h no
[14:46] <dholbach> great
[14:46] <dholbach> :)
[14:47] <mitya57> I think we should upload 1.3.1 before the feature freeze
[14:47] <mitya57> (after I finish the python 3 port) :-)
[15:13] <doko> pitti, can you check that your sponsoring for #1131183 works on the buildds?
[15:14] <pitti> doko: sure; I built it locally and confirmed that both os.sync and fsync work
[15:14] <doko> pitti, local builds were not the issue
[15:14] <pitti> I'll do it again with the packages from the buildds
[15:15] <doko> thanks
[15:23] <dobey> what was the link for the udd branch import status/log/whatever?
[15:24] <Laney> package-import.u.c
[15:30] <dobey> ah, thanks Laney
[15:30] <dobey> oh
[15:30] <dobey> why is it so backed up?
[15:31] <dobey> there's 845 outstanding jobs :-/
[15:31] <dobey> one of which i am doing a new release of
[15:40] <pitti> @pilot out
[15:47] <pitti> doko: amd64 has built, the buildd binaries are fine
[16:05] <roaksoax> slangasek: howdy!! Just wanted to let you know I have uploaded python-django (ubuntu1.6) and python-tx-tftp as part of the MAAS SRU!
[17:02] <kirkland> jamesh: hiya!  I was wondering if you had a chance to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/upstart/no-scold/+merge/148816 yet?
[17:03] <kirkland> slangasek: howdy!  I was wondering if you had a chance to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/pam/sbin-update-motd/+merge/148559 yet?
[17:03] <infinity> kirkland: You probably meant jodh, not jamesh.
[17:04] <kirkland> infinity: ah!  thanks!
[17:04] <kirkland> infinity: does he generally hang out here?
[17:04] <infinity> kirkland: Generally, though he seems to adhere rather strictly to a concept of work hours. :)
[17:05] <kirkland> infinity: lucky dog
[17:05] <kirkland> infinity: thanks, I'll try to grab him earlier tomorrow
[17:05] <infinity> slangasek: Did you and Colin come up with anything when unwinding the update-manager partial last night?
[17:05] <kirkland> infinity: perhaps I'm catching slangasek on the right side of the sun, though :-)
[17:06] <infinity> slangasek: I mean, it's correct that u-m doesn't generally want to remove packages, do we need to be doing mid-cycle quirking to allow specific bits like this to happen?
[17:07] <cjwatson> The problem with quirking is that we only know the quirk is needed post facto, so we'd need to upgrade update-manager to apply the quick
[17:07] <cjwatson> *quirk
[17:07] <cjwatson> (Besides, it sounds like a lot of messing around rather than honouring the metadata)
[17:07] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, fair point.
[17:07] <cjwatson> I was starting to attempt to write a test case for this
[17:08] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, be default, it's meant to be as conservative as "apt-get upgrade", as in, it'll add packages, but never remove.
[17:08] <infinity> s/be/by/
[17:08] <infinity> cjwatson: I'm not sure how far we can relax that before we accidentally let it remove half of -desktop on a bad resolver run.
[17:09] <cjwatson> I think mvo's idea of "permit removal as long as there's a direct c/p/r" would be ok ...
[17:09] <infinity> cjwatson: Probably, yeah.  Any fallout from that will be obvious packaging bugs that should be fixed anyway.
[17:10] <cjwatson> at least that way if there were a chain of packages involved then (worst case) you could work around it by c/p/ring them all
[17:10] <infinity> cjwatson: Though, if such fanciness is being attempted, that almost belongs in the apt resolver itself, so upgrade (and other libapt consumers) can get a similar behaviour.
[17:11] <cjwatson> I dunno, I sort of like the strict behaviour of upgrade - it's at least simpl
[17:11] <cjwatson> e
[17:11] <infinity> It is that.
[17:11] <cjwatson> And this is something that's being explicitly forbidden by u-m
[17:12] <cjwatson> It does depcache.upgrade(True) and checks depcache.del_count by hand
[17:12] <infinity> Well, yes, I realise u-m is a bit different under the hood.  But even if it was just forking "apt-get upgrade", the result would be the same in this case.
[17:12] <cjwatson> So it doesn't seem particularly wrong to relax it in u-m too
[17:12] <cjwatson> It would, but I don't agree that it's a good model for it to be emulating apt-get upgrade
[17:12] <cjwatson> Because I think apt-get upgrade is generally wrong
[17:12] <infinity> Heh.
[17:12] <infinity> Which goes back to "maybe upgrade should be less wrong".
[17:13] <cjwatson> For instance if you're in the habit of using apt-get upgrade all the time then you'll lose out on new Recommends
[17:13] <infinity> But making it less wrong while still unlikely to break computers is hard.
[17:13] <cjwatson> Which is not how the system is meant to work
[17:13] <cjwatson> (And, more to the point, you have no way to notice that you're losing out on new Recommends)
[17:13] <infinity> That said, if we're worried about breaking computers, u-m is where we need to be most worried.  So if we get the logic right there, surely having all apt consumers do the same thing is fine.
[17:14] <cjwatson> Honestly, any apt consumer that's driving depcache in an upgrade-like way rather than a dist-upgrade-like way is already wrong
[17:14] <cjwatson> The right fix is to have them drive it in a dist-upgrade-like way
[17:14] <infinity> And then to check delete counts and guess if it's okay?
[17:14] <cjwatson> And forget about upgrade as hard as possible
[17:14] <cjwatson> Or whitelist particular packages
[17:14] <infinity> Where "guess" means "duplicate the same PCR checking"?
[17:14] <cjwatson> (And TBH crazy delete counts are much less of a problem nowadays)
[17:15] <infinity> Well, as you point out, whitelisting only works after the fact, which is chicken and eggy.
[17:15] <cjwatson> No, I mean whitelist important things like -desktop
[17:15] <infinity> Oh, right.
[17:15] <infinity> Which is pretty much the dist-upgrader approach.
[17:15] <infinity> Allow violence, repair.
[17:16] <cjwatson> I just don't think that starting with apt-get upgrade is the right way to get a safe and correct upgrade path, so I'm not really so interested in fixing it
[17:16] <cjwatson> Starting with dist-upgrade or similar makes a lot more sense to me
[17:16] <infinity> Yeah, that's fair.  I haven't actually *run* apt-get upgrade in years (a decade, maybe?) for reasons stated.
[17:17] <infinity> Then again, I don't run update-manager for similar reasons, so perhaps this highlights your view well.
[17:21] <cjwatson> Right now, u-m is half-way in between.  It allows installing new packages but refuses to remove.
[17:22] <cjwatson> (AFAIK anyway.)
[17:49] <slangasek> mlankhorst: I'm confused by bug #1130974, I cannot reproduce this build failure here
[17:50] <mlankhorst> slangasek: needs libdrm >= 2.4.34 to fail
[17:50] <mlankhorst> so if you don't have updates pocket enabled, it will just work
[17:51] <slangasek> mlankhorst: hmm.... ok, I do have -updates enabled but apparently didn't apt-get update
[17:51] <mlankhorst> :-)
[17:57]  * mlankhorst has enough sru's to verify now!
[17:59] <slangasek> roaksoax: hi - how is the new python-django upload different from the previous one?  I still had an action item from the last TB meeting to re-review the previous upload
[17:59] <slangasek> kirkland: haven't looked at it yet, sorry... it's in the queue though
[17:59] <kirkland> slangasek: no worries, thanks
[17:59] <slangasek> infinity, cjwatson: so is there a consensus that we should go ahead with having u-m handle the c/p/r specially?
[18:00] <roaksoax> slangasek: the new upload drops the GenericIpAddressField
[18:00] <roaksoax> slangasek: which is now implemented in MAAS
[18:00] <slangasek> roaksoax: ok.  if that's your preference, I'll review that one instead - I guess it should be a quicker review
[18:01] <roaksoax> slangasek: indeed!! :)
[18:02] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think that's what I picked up.  I started working on it but have been a bit derailed into trying to make u-m's test suite actually pass for me reliably so that I have a solid base to work on
[18:02] <slangasek> ok :)
[18:03] <infinity> slangasek: That seems less scary than just letting it tear things out willy-nilly, yes.
[18:03] <cjwatson> (I have some kind of test isolation bug that's breaking my brain at the moment)
[18:03] <slangasek> me, I'm still stuck trying to get it to build reliably without adding a Build-Conflicts with python
[18:03] <infinity> Side note: Our UI needs more opportunity to use present users with options involving the word "willy-nilly".
[18:03] <slangasek> pybuild is nearly there, but for some reason the install_data target isn't installing the .mo files
[18:03] <cjwatson> Not to mention SERIOUSLY CAN WE STOP HAVING NETWORK-DEPENDENT TEST SUITES
[18:03] <infinity> s/use //
[18:04] <cjwatson> slangasek: mterry posted a dh9 branch - don't suppose that makes a difference?
[18:04] <mterry> for update-manager?  yeah, it prevents the shebang from being stripped down to python2 by dh_pysupport
[18:05] <slangasek> oh, is that what's been happening?
[18:05] <slangasek> yeah, that might be a quicker fix
[18:05] <mterry> cjwatson, the test suite is unreliable for you?
[18:06] <mterry> cjwatson, hmm, I see the pep8 test fails...  and the port-listening test, which I agree is a pain
[18:06] <cjwatson> mterry: yeah, got a failure in test_update_list which is order-of-tests-dependent
[18:06] <cjwatson> mterry: I fixed the pep8 tests, update
[18:06] <cjwatson> no port-listening failure here
[18:07] <mterry> cjwatson, probably because you have installed an ssh server locally
[18:07] <cjwatson> heh, but of course I have a local openssh server
[18:07] <mterry> cjwatson, if port 22 isn't open, it fails
[18:07] <cjwatson> stupid test
[18:07] <mterry> cjwatson, which is a stupid test  :)
[18:07] <cjwatson> Might have a go at that later
[18:08] <cjwatson> Trying to narrow down the one I'm actually seeing first
[18:11] <cjwatson> For me this fails reliably in test_update_list.GroupingTestCase.test_app if I have previously run test_cache.TestCache and test_meta_release_core.TestMetaReleaseCore in the same nosetests3 run, but not if I've run only one of those or neither.
[18:13] <cjwatson> And if you remove test_meta_release_core.TestMetaReleaseCore.testnewdist then test_meta_release_core.TestMetaReleaseCore.test_url_downloadable falls over in a heap.  Hateful thing.
[18:17] <cjwatson> Which I think is actually a genuine failure masked somehow ...
[18:26] <larsgk> hi guys - now where ubuntu-phone is flooded ... do you know of a channel for ubuntu phone core app devs?
[18:27] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok, the dh9 still doesn't make a difference... that only avoids dh_pysupport mangling the files post-install, it doesn't prevent the build system from invoking setup.py wrong
[18:30] <xnox> larsgk: #ubuntu-arm =)
[18:30] <larsgk> xnox: cool - thanks
[19:03] <bdmurray> sbeattie: bug 982619 could use a test case
[19:03] <sbeattie> bdmurray: thanks
[19:04] <bdmurray> sbeattie: oh and bug 1091642
[19:04] <bdmurray> sbeattie: let me know when they do and I'll rereview / approve
[19:05] <sbeattie> the latter has a testcase incorporated in the source as part of the patch
[19:06] <sbeattie> but yeah, I can tease that out and include it in the bug description.
[19:24] <mdeslaur> shadeslayer: think you could get someone to verify the transmission package you have in quantal-proposed? I'm waiting on it to prepare a transmission security update...
[19:33] <jtaylor> transmission from proposed still works fine, let me quickly install qt to see if the bug is fixed
[19:34] <jtaylor> ok how do I use the magnet link?
[19:34] <jtaylor> (and what is a magnet link?)
[19:34] <jtaylor> pasting it in chromium just gets to me to a google index ._.
[19:39] <sarnold> jtaylor: paste it into your torrent client. on rtorrent, backspace <paste>...
[19:39] <jtaylor> sarnold: in the bug testcase "* Try to open same magnet link using chromium,"
[19:39] <sarnold> jtaylor: ah :D
[19:41] <jtaylor> it works from firefox though, is that enough?
[20:04] <YokoZar> Can I upload proposed SRU's with just "precise" in the changelog file or do I still have to manually change that to precise-proposed?
[20:10]  * jtaylor always adds -proposed
[20:10] <jtaylor> I think the automatic proposed is just raring, but I could be wrong
[20:12] <stgraber> YokoZar: just "precise" will work fine
[20:12] <stgraber> jtaylor: the rewrite works for all series
[20:12] <jtaylor> nice
[20:12] <xnox> YokoZar: yes, you can.
[20:14] <jtaylor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates should be updated then
[20:14] <jtaylor> it still says upload to -proposed
[20:18]  * ScottK always writes -proposed in debian/changelog.
[20:18] <ScottK> (for SRUs)
[20:18] <ScottK> jtaylor: It's automatic everywhere.
[20:49] <timrc> hallyn, maybe I need to upgrade to raring because I'm not finding armhf lxc containers in quantal even remotely stable... even when I get a container that's bootable and capable of being logged into, I get hangs :(
[20:49] <timrc> armhf-on-x86, to be more specific
[20:51] <hallyn> timrc: like i say there will still be issues on raring, but i can actually do real work in an armhf container in raring
[20:51] <hallyn> just dont' run java
[20:51] <hallyn> it segfaults - i need to check actually whether physical arm host maybe does the same thing
[20:52] <timrc> hallyn, keyboard is still responsive in the lxc console (I can ctrl-z, for example)
[20:53] <timrc> hallyn, anywho, I'll give it a whirl in raring :)
[21:08] <shadeslayer> jtaylor: interesting, from what I tested firefox didn't handle magnet links but chromium did :P
[22:15] <xxiao> could not find lxc in 12.10 for ppc
[22:16] <xxiao> E: Unable to locate package lxc
[22:17] <xxiao> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/powerpc/lxc does show it
[22:22] <stgraber> xxiao: do you have universe enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[22:29] <xxiao> stgraber: thanks. was comparing it to x86 12.04, indeed universal is not enabled
[22:29] <xxiao> stgraber: i built the rootfs from ubuntu-core, it has universal disabled by default
[22:29] <stgraber> yeah, that was my guess when you said you couldn't find lxc in 12.10
[22:30] <xxiao> now it's ok, thanks!
[22:53] <lefteris> hi
[22:54] <lefteris> I'm interested in getting an SRU for LP bug #1081307 but debfx there says there's already a pending SRU which although I cannot find
[22:55] <lefteris> could someone tell me if I need to prepare a debdiff, or just need to wait?
[22:56] <jtaylor> debfx: ^
[22:56] <jtaylor> I can't find it either, its also not in the queue, maybe it was rejected?
[23:12] <lefteris> can i prepare a debdiff for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081307 or just need to wait?
[23:16] <ScottK> lefteris: You can prepare a debdiff without waiting.
[23:18] <lefteris> ScottK: ok, thanks
[23:18] <GuidoPallemans> is there any way to save settings for an app in qml?
[23:22] <slangasek> barry, doko, pitti: so I'm looking for some advice on an interaction between python3-distutils-extras and pybuild.  build_i18n works by extending data_files with the list of generated .mo files to install; this works fine if build_i18n is called from the same process as install, but when they're called from separate processes, the info doesn't get passed anywhere... and pybuild seems to be clever enough that it doesn't call build_i18n a
[23:22] <slangasek> ... in the 'install' target.
[23:22] <slangasek> not sure which bit to consider this a bug in
[23:22] <sarnold> slangasek: you were cut off at "it doesn't call build_i18n a"
[23:23]  * doko never touched distutils-extra
[23:23] <slangasek> sarnold: orly?  should have wrapped to a second irc message
[23:23] <barry> slangasek: interesting.  do you have a branch to show this?  total wag would make me think that it's p-d-e that should work better in that case
[23:23]  * slangasek has splitlong.pl enabled
[23:24] <slangasek> doko: that doesn't prohibit you from having opinions :)
[23:24] <sarnold> slangasek: it didn't seem to flow into the second message well, ".. call build_i18n a in the 'install' target"
[23:24]  * barry has futz with p-d-e a few times
[23:24] <slangasek> barry: sure, let me twiddle my update-manager branch into something pushable
[23:24] <barry> +1
[23:24] <slangasek> sarnold: heh, then apparently splitlong and freenode disagree about how long is long :P  "second time"
[23:25] <ScottK> slangasek: It did wrap into a second message fine here.
[23:26] <barry> slangasek: could you port splitlong to elisp so i can use it in erc? :)
[23:26] <slangasek> barry: I'm sure someone has implemented it for erc before... :)
[23:27] <sarnold> slangasek: heh :)
[23:28] <slangasek> barry: lp:~vorlon/update-manager/pybuild
[23:31] <slangasek> barry: in principle, do you think the right answer is for build_i18n to stash its state somewhere and have a separate install_i18n target that picks it back up, or for pybuild to call setup.py in a way that build_i18n gets run again?
[23:31] <barry> slangasek: my gut feeling is that `pythons setup.py <command>` should be stateless and pybuild should adjust for that
[23:31] <barry> *python
[23:32] <slangasek> ok
[23:33] <barry> slangasek: well, otoh install does install everything from the build directory, so build; build_i18n; install should work
[23:35] <slangasek> what I really don't understand is why /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/python_distutils.pm invokes setup.py install in such a way that build_i18n is run again, but pybuild does not
[23:40] <barry> slangasek: maybe ping piotr over in debian-python?
[23:41] <slangasek> ok
[23:42] <barry> probably just a bug in pybuild is my guess
[23:47] <barry> slangasek: is this the symptom of the problem:
[23:47] <barry> cp: cannot stat './debian/tmp/usr/share/locale': No such file or directory
[23:47] <barry> dh_install: cp -a ./debian/tmp/usr/share/locale debian/update-manager-core//usr/share/ returned exit code 1
[23:47] <barry>
[23:51] <slangasek> barry: yes
[23:51] <slangasek> is meant to be installed by the debian/rules install target; isn't
[23:54] <barry> slangasek: one thing that's interesting is that it looks like pybuild build s into .pybuild/pythonX.Y_3.3/build/ but the mo directory is left in build/
[23:54] <slangasek> hmm
[23:55] <barry> slangasek: wag, maybe pybuild isn't passing --install-layout to build_i18n?
[23:56] <slangasek> barry: it's evidently not passing --install-layout to any of the setup.py invocations