[09:24] <Pendulum> TheMuso: would it be possible for us to sit down sometime this week and go over some bugs to see if we can find some bitesized ones that I can blog about? I'm going to try to go over a bunch of current a11y bugs today to see if I can come up with a list that might have a few. If you have any, too, feel free to let me know.
[18:25]  * joanie wonders if someone could be convinced to maintain ppas for WebKitGtk and Orca, each from master, for ubuntu 11.10 so that we can get more users testing the latest a11y goodness we're working on for Orca+Epiphany.
[18:26]  * joanie pokes Pendulum, TheMuso, and AlanBell w.r.t. the above :)
[18:47]  * AlanBell feels a sharp poke in the ribs
[18:48] <AlanBell> I wonder if we can do the automatic recipe thing for daily builds
[19:34] <joanie> I wonder what the automatic recipe thing is
[19:34] <joanie> :)
[19:36] <AlanBell> joanie: some special magic that does a pull from trunk and merges packaging and builds a new deb file every day
[19:37] <joanie> oh, interesting
[19:37] <joanie> if such magic could be used to make testing of these items easier, it would really be awesome.
[19:38] <joanie> Some users who are willing to test have a hard time with things like "just pull Orca master and build it."
[19:38] <joanie> So "and do the same for WebKitGtk" is a total non-starter
[19:40] <AlanBell> http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/source-package-recipes
[19:40] <AlanBell> "you can take any buildable branch — whether hosted in directly Launchpad or imported from Git, Subversion, CVS or Bazaar hosted elsewhere"
[19:40] <AlanBell> sounds kinda good
[19:40]  * joanie looks
[19:40] <maco> im a packager and that "do the same for webkitgtk" sounds about as pleasant as building chrome or firefox
[19:40] <joanie> maco: heh
[19:40] <maco> (read: not very)
[19:40] <AlanBell> I did set one up for dasher but it went a bit wrong and I couldn't fix it
[19:41] <joanie> maco I do it and once your build environment is set up it's just a matter of going to find something else to do for an hour or so ;)
[19:41] <joanie> but you see why this is a non-starter for most end users
[19:42] <joanie> and yet WebKitGtk a11y is really coming along nicely
[19:42] <joanie> so that is where I'm putting my focus with Orca in terms of web content access
[19:42] <joanie> but I need users testing
[19:44] <joanie> I also need  to find some dinner. Early flight tomorrow.
[19:53] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit is this webkitgtk?
[20:04] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/webkit/trunk/files looks somewhat like the webkitgtk source, but with extra stuff
[20:07] <AlanBell> ok, it is webkit trunk, including some stuff that doesn't get into webkit releases
[21:10] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Sure, happy to do so. Perhaps the same time as we used to have our regular meetings, Wednesday at 20:30UTC?
[21:10] <TheMuso> joanie: I'll see what I can do re webkit and Orca testing, need to get some other precise based work finished first, thats taking most of my attentino atm.
[21:14] <Pendulum> TheMuso: sounds good
[22:44]  * AlanBell is doing a local build of orca with a source recipe
[22:53] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~dusek/+recipe/gnome-orca-daily it is already being built daily
[22:53] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~dusek/+archive/gnome-orca-daily
[22:53] <AlanBell> joanie: ^^
[22:55] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~hannes-janetzek/+archive/enlightenment-svn webkitgtk should be in this one somewhere
[22:56] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~hannes-janetzek/+recipe/ewebkit-svn it is failing to build from source though
[22:57] <AlanBell> bzr: out of memory
[23:13] <valorie> perhaps the Project Neon guys could be enticed into setting up the PPA, or at least helping?
[23:13] <valorie> they have it down to a science for KDE
[23:14] <valorie> #project-neon


[00:00] <shoutme> pitti: should gssd.service just have a ConditionVirtualization=!container  added?
[00:05] <shoutme> maybe we should just allow the rpc mounts...
[00:07] <shoutme> but adding that to run-rpc_pipefs.service does work
[00:33] <nacc> slangasek: apologies for the delay, i think i've got the split main/universe build for php7.0 working with just a one-variable chagne between the two src packages ... build & testing now, will let you know
[00:35] <nacc> jgrimm: checksecurity merge request sent
[00:35] <nacc> smoser: thanks for your help!
[01:46] <jgrimm> nacc: cool, thanks!
[03:27] <stgraber> Pici: found the issue with the jenkins image importer, fixed now, it's processing its backlog which should take quite a few hours (about 200 images to download, unpack, update, repack, sign, ...)
[03:27] <stgraber> pitti: ^
[03:27] <stgraber> Pici: sorry, bad tab completion :)
[04:05] <pitti> stgraber: yay, thanks for fixing the image builds
[04:05] <pitti> Good morning
[04:33] <darkxst> can someone nuke this from the sponsorship queue https://code.launchpad.net/~maozhou/ubuntu/utopic/tomboy/bug-12345/+merge/283581
[04:34] <darkxst> it was just someone playing around with merges by the looks of it
[04:52] <pitti> darkxst: set to "rejected", that should do
[04:52] <darkxst> pitti, thanks!
[05:38] <darkxst> @pilot in
[05:51] <pitti> yofel, debfx: both our telepathy-qt and telepathy-qt5 packages are wildly out of date, use gstreamer 0.10 etc., and it seems the reason for the split is long gone: Debian's telepathy-qt builds both qt 4 and qt5 packages
[05:51] <pitti> can we just sync/merge this?
[05:53] <pitti> yofel, debfx: see bug 1538772, keeping notes there
[06:16] <pitti> yofel, debfx: I put a merged test package into my PPA, some testing would be great
[06:28] <cpaelzer> good morning
[07:07] <darkxst> anyone able to add gitg to desktop-extra packageset (I am sure it was meant to be done already, but apparently not)
[07:29] <tjaalton> how come https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu shows the package is in universe when apt-cache policy shows the binary is in main?
[07:37] <pitti>  xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu     | 1.0.1-1build2 | xenial          | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
[07:37] <pitti>  xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu     | 1.0.1-1build2 | xenial/universe | source
[07:37] <pitti>  xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu-dbg | 1.0.1-1build2 | xenial/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
[07:37] <pitti> tjaalton: wrong overrides; where is this supposed to be?
[07:38] <tjaalton> main
[07:38] <tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu/+bug/1543659
[07:38] <pitti> tjaalton: ok, fixed
[07:38] <tjaalton> thanks!
[07:40] <dax> tjaalton: been fielding support questions about fglrx recently. checking i'm reading right: no more fglrx in xenial onwards, right?
[07:40] <tjaalton> dax: right
[07:40] <tjaalton> amd finally confirmed it in public
[07:40] <dax> thanks (and thanks for getting rid of it, though it'll make #ubuntu fun for a cycle or two i'm glad it's gone)
[07:41] <tjaalton> there's going to be a userspace blob at some point, but it's only for the amdgpu stack
[07:41] <dax> *nod*
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[07:41] <dax> i've been using radeon for ages and have been reading about amdgpu. just wasn't sure if it was yet another temporary delay in xorg compat or if it was permanent
[07:41] <tjaalton> http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/857070-ubuntu-is-deprecating-fglrx-catalyst-in-16-04-lts/page6?_=1457549209785
[07:42] <tjaalton> comments by bridgman and twriter
[07:42] <tjaalton> I emailed tim yesterday and begged that they'd make it public :)
[07:43] <tjaalton> there's probably going to be a more formal announcement too
[07:46] <tjaalton> now if only it'd be ok to build a fully featured mesa and then just put some binaries in universe that'd be cool (vaapi, opencl..), but main/universe split makes it impossible
[07:48] <pitti> wgrant: hey William, how are you?
[07:49] <pitti> wgrant: I did a boo-boo with process-removals (had some 'y's in the input buffer)
[07:49] <pitti> wgrant: can I un-remove a package from xenial, or do I need to reupload/rebuild?
[07:52] <wgrant> pitti: Morning.
[07:52] <wgrant> pitti: You can use copy-package to revive it.
[07:52] <pitti> wgrant: copy from where then?
[07:53] <wgrant> pitti: copy-package --from-suite=xenial --to-suite=xenial -e 1.2.3-4 -b --auto-approve --force-same-destination somepackage
[07:53] <pitti> wgrant: hah, lol; thanks
[07:53] <wgrant> The -e picks a version other than the current one.
[07:54] <wgrant> So it doesn't matter if it's published or not.
[08:03] <pitti> yofel, debfx: qtmobility got removed in Debian, only rdepends in Ubuntu is artikulate; is this still something we want to keep?
[08:04] <pitti> (it also uses the obsolete gstreamer0.10)
[08:10] <debfx> pitti: qtmobility-dev likely just needs to be dropped from build-deps
[08:10] <yofel> ^
[08:12] <debfx> where does it use gstreamer0.10? I only see a dep on libqt5gstreamer-1.0-0
[08:13] <pitti> Comment: (From Debian) ROM; will not get ported to GST 1.0, superseded by Qt5; Debian bug #802642
[08:13] <pitti> that's what the Debian removal bug says
[08:13] <pitti> and it also seems generally obsolete
[08:14] <pitti> debfx: libqtmultimediakit1 depends on libgstreamer0.10-0
[08:16] <debfx> right, so applying http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/applications/artikulate.git/commit/?id=609f5b1 and killing qtmobility is the solution
[08:18] <pitti> debfx: ah, thanks; so good to remove?
[08:25] <debfx> qtmobility? sure. would be nice if someone could fix artikulate before.
[08:30] <darkxst> @pilot out
[08:36] <pitti> debfx: uploaded/removed
[08:38] <pitti> xnox: hey! do you have some time to look at the s390x test failures of upstart?
[08:41] <jamespage> please could an archive admin promote python-pika-pool to main? MIR bug 1552827 approved - the old version oslo.messaging in the release pocket is causing test failures right now for openstack testing
[08:46] <pitti> jamespage: it's not on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt -- you need to make something in main depend on it
[08:46] <pitti> otherwise the next AA will demote it back
[08:47] <jamespage> pitti, python-oslo.messaging is depwaiting on it
[08:47] <jamespage> letme check again
[08:48] <pitti> jamespage: ah sorry, it's on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.txt
[08:48] <jamespage> pitti, yup
[08:48] <pitti> promoted
[08:49] <jamespage> pitti, I'll also need a binary only of python3-pika please
[08:49] <jamespage> source already in main
[08:50] <pitti> jamespage: I did all the ones on the above list, including that
[08:52] <jamespage> pitti, thankyou
[09:31] <pitti> nacc: php5.6 got removed in Debian, do we want to follow suit? I assume yes as you're heading for 7.0, but want to confirm
[09:33] <pitti> nacc: well, I remove it for now, our only change was an FTBFS fix; I can bring it back if necessary
[09:33] <rbasak> nacc won't be up for a while. I know the plan is to remove 5.6. I didn't know what stage nacc was at for that though.
[09:33] <rbasak> Presumably all the reverse deps are gone now?
[09:34] <pitti> * php-redis                     (for php5.6-dev)
[09:34] <pitti> * php5.6-json                   (for php5.6-dev)
[09:34] <pitti> rbasak: php5.6-json was also removed (I just did that in Ubuntu)
[09:34] <pitti> rbasak: and php-redis needs a rebuild against php7, I just synced the new Debian package
[09:34] <pitti> rbasak: i. e. yes,  all gone
[09:34] <rbasak> Not sure about php-redis. php5.6-json is 5.6-specific. 7.0 has a replacement json that doesn't need a separate source package IIRC.
[09:35] <pitti> I also removed a whole bunch of obsolete php-* stuff (via debian removals), should help a bit
[09:37] <pitti> (I also synced dh-php and php-igbinary, as php-redis needs those)
[09:49] <pitti> Unit193: do you still care about dvdstyler? it's the only thing which still holds the obsolete wxsvg in Ubuntu (got removed in Debian bug 813151)
[09:55] <Unit193> I did the last upload because it didn't function at all, afact there's no new version that ports from wxsvg.
[10:20] <pitti> Unit193: right, my question was in the direction of "is dvdstyler obsolete and should be removed?" or is there still some upstream for it
[10:21] <Unit193> pitti: Ah!  Well they did just release a new version in Jan, but I don't actually know much more than that, never used it myself.  Sorry.
[10:23]  * pitti tries to find some ubuntustudio folks
[10:24] <pitti> zequence: ^ hey, how are you? do you know about dvddstyler? ^
[10:33] <pitti> juliank: apparently some amd64-ism crept into apt's test suite? tests now fail on anything except amd64
[10:33] <pitti> dpkg: error processing archive /tmp/tmp.tKhfFn1igl/aptarchive/pool/pkgb_1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[10:33] <pitti>  package architecture (amd64) does not match system (i386)
[10:33] <juliank> pitti: Yes, I'm aware of that and forwarded it yesterday to DonKult
[10:33] <pitti> juliank: ah, danke
[10:34] <juliank> pitti: In the meantime, ignoring them is the way to go. (Problem being that while we set APT's architecture, we do not configure dpkg's architecture, but install packages, which fails)
[10:46] <juliank> pitti: Fixed in https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/commit/?id=e457c94
[10:47] <pitti> juliank: yay you, danke
[10:47] <juliank> bb
[10:47] <juliank> oops
[10:48] <juliank> i386 also failed the (flaky) download progress test again
[10:55] <xnox> pitti, upstart is not used on s390x at all =)
[10:55] <xnox> it's only used in desktop sessions, and there are no desktops on s390x.
[10:55] <pitti> xnox: oh, so it's not even installed by default?
[10:56] <pitti> xnox: indeed, only rdepends on my system is unity-greeter (ugh, there should be some more for sure..)
[10:56] <pitti> xnox: you mean we could/should remove the s390x binaries?
[10:57] <xnox> pitti, i don't think we will like an arch skew, nor the build depends skew (there are things that depend on libupstart et.al.)
[10:57] <xnox> but it's definitely not supported =)
[10:57] <pitti> well, it's ftbfs on s390x; we could also disable the tests on s390x
[10:57] <xnox> i can look at the test failures out of interest.
[10:57] <pitti> xnox: oh, I don't have libupstart1 installed
[10:57] <xnox> however, upstart is a good kernel tester.
[10:58] <pitti> only libupstart-dev depends on it
[10:59] <xnox> horum. there should have been deps in app-launchers and things, unless they have switched to dbus direct.
[11:05] <smoser> pitti, around? i've got some systemd networking questions.
[11:05] <smoser> https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/cloud-init-networking has some background.
[11:05] <smoser> see description around line 39 there.
[11:06] <zequence> pitti: Seems my assistance was not needed :)
[11:07] <pitti> zequence: why? there was no other answer about this so far (nor an upload)
[11:07] <pitti> smoser: (be with you in a sec)
[11:07] <smoser> k. thanks.
[11:07] <pitti> zequence: i. e. it's still "do we want to keep and update dvdstyler or remove it"
[11:07] <zequence> pitti: Oh, I thought someone was on it
[11:08] <zequence> Ah, right. Yes, I'll check with Len Ovens, who is the one in our team who is most informed on that package
[11:10] <flexiondotorg> smb, ogasawara, seb128 Hello Pilots - If you could take a look at my sponsoring requests during your pilot sessions today I'd really appreciate it :-)
[11:11] <pitti> smoser: these steps seem fine to me; let me see where cloud-init-local hooks in right now, i. e. that it's a proper place for this
[11:12] <smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/systemd/cloud-init-local.service
[11:12] <zequence> pitti: I'll get back to you about the package within a day or so. Just double checking with Len first.
[11:12] <pitti> smoser: ah, was just doing "systemctl cat" on a cloud instance
[11:12] <muktupavels> flexiondotorg, did you test compiz? why did not you update your branch for review?
[11:12] <pitti> zequence: great, thanks a lot for your efforts
[11:13] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, Because I work on this stuff in my spare time and my time is limited :-(
[11:14] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, It is 2nd on my list though.
[11:14] <smoser> pitti, thanks for systemctl cat. did not know.
[11:14] <pitti> smoser: so, cloud-init is after=local-fs.target, but at first sight I don't see a strict enough Before= that would cause networking stuff to wait?
[11:14] <smoser> yeah. at the moment networking is not blocked at all.
[11:15] <pitti> smoser: "systemctl show -p After cloud-init-local" is also quite useful
[11:15] <pitti> smoser: as that shows you the properties "all combined"
[11:15] <smoser> cloud-init-local needs filesystems (and yes, /usr)
[11:15] <pitti> i. e. if some other unit bar.foo does Before=foo", then showing foo.service will show After=bar
[11:16] <pitti> smoser: can/should we just redefine cloud-init-local to block bringup of network, or is there stuff happening there that already needs network?
[11:16] <pitti> smoser: (if so, it would be wrong as it doesn't depend on networking, but still asking)
[11:16] <smoser> no. it should not need network
[11:16] <smoser> it looks at local sources of information such as attached disks or stuff in the filesystem
[11:17] <smoser> or as described there to add 'ip=' flag
[11:17] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, I see you've got a merge proposal in.
[11:17] <pitti> smoser: btw, this might not run as early as you think, as it doesn't have DefaultDependencies=no
[11:17] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, What help do you require from me to progress this?
[11:17] <pitti> smoser: in old SysV terms, this runs in rc2, not in rcS (which you'd get with DefaultDeps=no)
[11:17] <muktupavels> flexiondotorg, what merge proposal?
[11:18] <flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/compiz/gwd-marco-gsettings/+merge/287820
[11:19] <muktupavels> flexiondotorg, just merge it in your branch and test it. I pushed that only as example.
[11:20] <smoser> yeah, goal is "as early as i can pallet". i think i'm probably ok. . i need /var/lib/cloud, /usr/bin/cloud-init really want /run .
[11:20] <pitti> smoser: /run is always there, that's no problem
[11:20] <pitti> smoser: do you support craziness like /var on NFS for cloud-init?
[11:20] <pitti> (as that would be a circular dependency then)
[11:21] <pitti> for c-i-local.service
[11:21] <smoser> at this point i dont think so.
[11:21] <smoser> i think if someone really wanted such a thing, then we might try to get there, but it wouldnt work right now.
[11:22] <pitti> smoser: so, I left some notes in the pad
[11:24] <smoser> pitti, thanks. wrt seriallized boot, you may be interested in the generator i added, which means you can completely disable cloud-init (well,. other than the generator running)
[11:24] <pitti> smoser: line 70 → is that a systemd generator? or some other kind? (as these run even earlier)
[11:25] <smoser> yeah, the generator is what allows you to disable cloud-init entirely
[11:25] <smoser> i'd also like at some point it to be able to change cloud-init to only run in a way that is guaranteed to not foobar your ENI
[11:26]  * pitti yays lots of shell in early boot :)
[11:26] <pitti> smoser: any chance to at least drop the shell parsing of /proc/cmdline?
[11:26] <pitti> you can add ConditionKernelCommandLine= to any unit to run (or not run) it for certain kernel command line options
[11:28] <pitti> smoser: is =enabled and =disabled already released API? (most other kernel options use =1 or =0, or no value at all)
[11:32] <smoser> pitti, i'm not opposed to changing =enabled or =disabled. to =1 or =0, but one seems less magic.
[11:32] <smoser> the kernel command line parsing also supports reading the environment variable which could be set in lxd (right now lxc does not mask /proc/cmdline)
[11:34] <smoser> i dont think performance is likely an issue in reading proc cmdline. the logging in that script probably is much more a performance issue
[11:36] <smoser> actually, the one fork i make (systemd-detect-virt) is probably 90% of the time for that functionality
[11:37] <pitti> smoser: ConditionKernelCommandLine= actually does just that
[11:38] <pitti> smoser: if it's booting on a real kernel, it parses /proc/cmdline, otherwise it takes the argv of pid1
[11:38] <pitti> i. e. lxc's flavor of a "kernel"(ish) command line
[11:38] <pitti> and there's ConditionVirtualization= which also avoids the fork
[11:38] <pitti> (but I think you don't actually need that
[11:39] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, OK, will do.
[11:40] <pitti> smoser: anyway, that's quibbling over less code/optimizing etc; I guess the important bit here is the Before=network-pre.target (and moving earlier into the boot) of c-i-local?
[11:40] <smoser> yeah.
[11:40] <pitti> smoser: where does this $KERNEL_CMDLINE thing come from?
[11:41] <smoser> it would allow you to set that in lxc's pid1
[11:41] <smoser> i dont know that the argv of pid1 would be sufficient or not
[11:41] <smoser> can i run '/sbin/init cloudinit=1' and systemd not be bothered by that ?
[11:43] <smoser> KERNEL_CMDLINE is not standardized in any way. i picked an environment variable name. if there is a more appropriate one, good with that.
[11:43] <pitti> smoser: well, "bothered", that's how every init is called; it will of course pick out stuff like systemd.log-level or so, but it ignores unknown arguments, yes
[11:44] <pitti> (or quiet/debug/emergency)
[11:44] <pitti> so you can e. g. do sudo lxc-start -n adt-wily /sbin/init rescue -F
[11:44] <pitti> starting a container or a kernel isn't much different wrt. kernel command line parsing really
[11:45] <pitti> for clarity, the -F belongs to lxc-start, so like: sudo lxc-start -F -n adt-wily /sbin/init debug cloudinit=1
[11:45] <pitti> systemd will recognize the "debug" as somethign it knows, and just ignore the cloudinit=
[11:45] <smoser> ok. i'll consider that, adn the systemd conditions in the generator too
[11:46] <smoser> 2 things i'd like generally...
[11:46] <pitti> smoser: generators don't have  conditions (as they are not units), they always run
[11:46] <smoser> i'd like to be able to read "is this a container" (systemd-detect-virt) without  a fork
[11:46] <pitti> well, you can programatically check for stuff of course
[11:46] <pitti> i. e. my point is, I believe you don't need the generator at all
[11:47] <smoser> i'd like to be able to read the cmdline without a fork too (reading /proc/1/cmdline and /proc/1/environ are null terminated. easy for anything but shell)
[11:47] <pitti> I think this boils down to ConditionKernelCommandLine=!cloud-init=disabled
[11:47] <smoser> maybe, yeah.
[11:48] <pitti> and you don't really need the dynamic enaling then, as the condition will already make cloud-init*.service a no-op if disabled
[11:49] <pitti> and the detect-virt goes away as ConditionKernelCommandLine= DTRT for both "real" kernels and container pid 1's
[11:49] <smoser> and ConditionPathExists!
[11:49] <smoser> pitti, oh. the other thing i thouht i got from the generator.
[11:49] <smoser> was that i have no bottlnecks in boot
[11:50] <smoser> ie, one thing runs and then if disabled, the others do not run
[11:50] <smoser> rather than having the bottleneck come down to cloud-init-local and then checking for that file
[11:51] <pitti> well, they don't actually fork/run anything
[11:51] <pitti> "they" -> Condition*
[11:51] <smoser> no. but they force a bottleneck
[11:51] <smoser> ie, if cloud-init-local blocks networkign coming up, then there is a bottleneck at boot down to that one job
[11:52] <smoser> and then another at the point where i want cloud-init to run
[11:52] <pitti> ah, you'd make network-pre.target run after local-fs.target, yes
[11:52] <smoser> where with the generator i thought i incur the single cost of the generator and if disabled, then cloud-init has *no* affect on boot
[11:52] <pitti> which is not really a biggie as everything that actually touches network config also needs After=local-fs.target
[11:54] <smoser> well, then i'm free to do what ever silly things i want to do to boot.
[11:54] <pitti> smoser: well, cloud-init-local.service really doesn't do much serialization (other than network-pre.target after local-fs.target); I guess the stating and symlinking and parsing that you do there is probably a dozen times heavier :)
[11:54] <smoser> but i think its probably really a very small optimization.
[11:55] <smoser> also cloud-init.service forces some bottlenecks.
[11:55] <pitti> for sshd.service etc.
[11:55] <smoser> its fine. i think this is mostly in the terms of "small" then. i was more concerned that cloud-init's presense on disk had negative affects on boot when it wasn't utilized.
[11:55] <smoser> i'd like for peple to not think 'cloud-init sucks, purge it'
[11:55] <smoser> but rather cloud-init could be useful, i'll just disable it.
[11:56] <smoser> you've convinced me its a small thing, and i'm not opposed to looking into your path for sure.
[11:56] <pitti> smoser: so cloud-init.service serializing ssh.service after network-online.target is the main serialization that I see
[11:56] <smoser> (and i have another email to you about ssh.service and pollinate)
[11:56] <pitti> smoser: for that a generator might make sense
[11:58] <smoser> i do want cloud-init.service to generally block everything it can
[11:58] <smoser> for just about all of boot to serialize on it (and cloud-confnig.service) so that they can affect as much of boot as possible.
[12:04] <smoser> pitti, that make sense? generally speaking i *want* to serialize boot. so that users can provide user-data that will run "as soon as networking is up" and affect other parts of boot.
[12:04] <smoser> unfortunately, it seems that systemd is not as dynamic as upstart was in that regard
[12:05] <smoser> they can't just drop new units in and have them consumed via inotify
[12:05] <pitti> smoser: sure; you can hook into network-online.target to block that (and everything that waits on it)
[12:05] <smoser> how can i hook into it ?
[12:05] <pitti> right, you need to enable new units
[12:05] <pitti> smoser: Before=network-online.target
[12:06] <pitti> (or whichever other target you want to "block")
[12:06] <smoser> and that will run when networking is up
[12:06] <smoser> but block anything else that would need it ?
[12:06] <pitti> of course you can't then simultaneously have After=network-online.target as it does rigth now
[12:07] <pitti> you could add an After=networking.service (for ifupdown), if you don't care about other methods
[12:07] <smoser> so cloud-init.service will need to use the configured networking to go looking for a datasource
[12:07] <pitti> then you'd have networking.service -> cloud-init -> network-online.target -> everything that depends on that
[12:07] <smoser> so yeah, thats what i want. but that is only accomplishable on ubuntu ?
[12:08] <pitti> but of course not all services depend on that, so if you really want to affect *all* services you can only run a generator
[12:08] <pitti> (but then have literally no assumptions)
[12:08] <xnox> .... and dhcp request sent with "wrong" hostname....
[12:08] <smoser> xnox, well, you'll be happy to know that on azure, they bounce the dhcp interface so that it does it with the right one
[12:08] <pitti> smoser: network-online (and pretty much all other targets) are cross-distro; *.service are often distro specific, e. g. networking.service is "ifupdown"
[12:09] <xnox> smoser, excellent. I guess i just need s390x on azure then =)
[12:09] <pitti> smoser: so indeed  if you run on a distro that doesn't have ifupdown, you can't use this (but they your network config bit wouldn't work in teh first place -- you probably want to ship a networkd config or somethign such)
[12:09] <smoser> pitti, yeah. well, a cross distro blocking "network is up" event is what i'm after.
[12:09] <pitti> smoser: that's network-online.target, pretty much
[12:10] <smoser> yeah. other than the blockign part :)
[12:10] <pitti> smoser: but I meant, a lot of services don't wait for that, but already start before
[12:10] <smoser> pitti, you've been so very helpful, thank you.
[12:10] <xnox> there is a generic event for "network is available" network-online.target, but things that provide network block that, and don't create an alias...
[12:10] <pitti> say, postgres or ssh
[12:10] <pitti> smoser: the blocking is your decision (adding a Before=n-o.t)
[12:11] <xnox> it could be networkd, networkmanager, ifupdown, what not. So I don't think there is a generic way to block /those/ things that configure the network.
[12:11] <xnox> unless you opportunistically encode all of their names.
[12:11] <pitti> xnox: yeah, that'd be network.target
[12:11] <pitti> (sorry, I thought you meant "use the network")
[12:12] <xnox> pitti, i thought that e.g. "before=network.target" unit, may still run in between say networkd and network.target.
[12:12] <xnox> as e.g. networkd is simply before network.target.... no?
[12:12] <smoser> well, yeah. i want to be able to run code when the network is up that basically blocks all other code that would expect the network to be up.
[12:12] <smoser> but i want to not know what  brought that networking up
[12:12] <smoser> i want to be special!
[12:12] <xnox> ah.
[12:12] <pitti> xnox: right, sorry, network-pre
[12:12] <pitti> you are talking about two different things
[12:12] <xnox> pitti, oh, that one, ok.
[12:12] <xnox> right.
[12:13] <pitti> smoser talks about "using the network" (but after configuring it) -> network-online.target
[12:13] <pitti> xnox talks about "things that bring up interfaces" (network-pre.target)
[12:13] <smoser> yes. i need both.
[12:13] <smoser> cloud-init-local before network-pre.target
[12:13] <smoser> and
[12:14] <smoser> cloud-init after network-online.target
[12:14] <smoser> but what i want is
[12:14] <smoser> cloud-init=network-online.target
[12:14] <pitti> smoser: right, the -local bit should run very early (as said in the pad, that shows how to put it earlier)
[12:14] <xnox> you can make cloud-init to be required by network-online.target, and just wait for network to be up.
[12:14] <xnox> because that target is a blocking one already.
[12:15] <smoser> hm..
[12:15] <pitti> well, depends
[12:15]  * xnox with his upstartish ways of doing things
[12:15] <pitti> stuff like postgres or haveged or whatnot isn't  caring about network
[12:15] <smoser> right. somet hings i can't affect. thats fine.
[12:15] <pitti> so those things need to be configured in -local then
[12:16] <xnox> or local should install a firewall rule =) har har
[12:16] <pitti> smoser | cloud-init=network-online.target
[12:16] <pitti> smoser: ^ what does that mean?
[12:16] <smoser> Before and After
[12:16] <smoser> :)
[12:16] <pitti> well, a target is a synchronization point, it doesn't "do" anything
[12:17] <pitti> i.e. you can run before or after, but not "in" it
[12:17] <smoser> right. but i need to run after it is there and want to stop evyerthing else that would run 'After' it
[12:17] <xnox> and by default that target is empty, and a thing that brings up network has a helper to say "network is online".
[12:17] <pitti> that's similar to upstart, yuou can either do "on starting" or "on started" (before or after)
[12:17] <xnox> so on ubuntu
[12:17] <smoser> right.
[12:18] <pitti> smoser: that concept of "I want to be the only one" doesn't exist in any init system any more
[12:18] <xnox> network-online.target.wants -> [networking.service, NetworkManager-wait-online.service]
[12:18] <pitti> (not even sysv with inssersv)
[12:18] <pitti> because, what happens if there's another package which wants to be the only one? :-)
[12:18] <xnox> thus on ubuntu you want to be (a) wantedby -online.target (b) after = [networking.service, NetworkManager-wait-online.service]
[12:18] <smoser> pitti, you're completely missing the point. *I* want to be special
[12:18] <smoser> i dont care about other people!
[12:18] <smoser> :)
[12:19] <pitti> oh, right :)
[12:19] <xnox> you can add wanted by everywhere, and to work everywhere you should add After = networkd
[12:19] <xnox> and that's it.
[12:19] <pitti> reminds me of those bug reports that say "this must be the last thing on boot"
[12:19] <pitti> (and of course I've seen at least three *different* people/packages claiming that)
[12:20] <pitti> smoser: so yes, if you want to  block a target, do Before=network-online.target, and wait on the specific thing you just configured, like networking.service
[12:20] <smoser> there shoudl be a target "basically-last-thing-in-boot"
[12:20] <pitti> smoser: and if/once cloud-init learns how to setup networkd, you can add After=systemd-networkd.service too
[12:20] <smoser> rc.local (what it used to provide) is such a very useful thing for normal humans.
[12:20] <xnox> we call that "multiuser.target" =)
[12:20] <smoser> but, lets not go there :)
[12:20] <pitti> well, that conceptually isn't possible :)
[12:20] <smoser> and 147 things run at 'multiuser.target'
[12:20] <pitti> (and that's completely independent of insserv/upstart/systemd)
[12:20] <xnox> not systemd-networkd.service, but after systemd-networkd-wait-online.service.
[12:21] <smoser> hey.
[12:21] <smoser> i really do have to run now.
[12:21] <pitti> ok, time for lunch then
[12:21] <smoser> xnox and pitti have been very, very helpful
[12:21] <smoser> thank you
[12:21] <smoser> pitti at your leisure, yuou have an email about pollinate from me too.
[12:21] <smoser> thanks again.
[12:22] <smoser> best irc chat ever.
[12:22] <xnox> smoser, but given our on/off thing, your cloud init generator will need to install "cloud-init" wanted by "network-online", the After= lines can be encoded for all the world wide known network-online.target wanted'bys....
[12:22] <smoser> really, thank you!
[12:22] <xnox> or even better the generator can sniff those off disk.
[12:23] <xnox> cause you want to create network-online.target.wants/cloud-init.service & create cloud-init.service.d/after.conf -> and that conf will list [Unit]\n After=`ls /etc/systemd/system/network-online.target.wants`
[12:27] <pitti> xnox: urgh, that sounds  way too hackish
[12:27] <xnox> =)
[12:27] <pitti> xnox: cloud-init can only configure ifupdown anyway, so there's little point waiting for the others
[12:29] <xnox> pitti, it's not about configuring network however. ifupdown can only be done by cloud-init-local. I think what smoser here is after "network is configured by whatever" now block all services and wait for cloud-init to finsih installing/upgrading packages; configure users etc..... do everything. And then unblock network services to spawn everything else.
[12:29] <xnox> e.g. sshd server.
[12:29] <pitti> xnox: correct, which is just Before=network-online.target in cloud-init.service
[12:30] <xnox> pitti, can one be wantedby & before network-online.target?
[12:31] <xnox> it can't be before network-online.target, as then it will before network is actually configured....
[12:31] <pitti> xnox: yes, that's by far the most common behaviour (it's unusual for something to want a dependency, but that dependency should run *after* oneseelf)
[12:31] <xnox> e.g. before network-online.target, will be before networking.service/NetworkManager-wait-online.service
[12:31] <xnox> no?
[12:32] <pitti> xnox: right, hence cloud-init.service being After=networking.service Before=network-online.target
[12:32] <xnox> that's racy.
[12:32] <pitti> as we don't (currently) care a bout anything else in cloud-init than ifupdown
[12:32] <xnox> ok. so it's racy in network configs that support -wait-online stuff properly (e.g. networkmanager, networkd)
[12:33] <pitti> if you want to block on those too, then add them to After=, yes
[12:33] <xnox> right, gotcha.
[12:35] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, I've built Compiz with you changes stacked on mine here - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/+archive/ubuntu/crazy-mate/+build/9327928
[12:36] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, And tested it. Works great. Thanks for your help on this, it is much appreciated :-)
[12:38] <flexiondotorg> muktupavels, Changes merged in the proposal - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/compiz/marco-gsettings/+merge/282882
[12:40] <flexiondotorg> Trevinho, I've merged and tested the changes muktupavels suggested for the improve Marco integration in Compiz. Please review https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/compiz/marco-gsettings/+merge/282882
[13:15] <knome> could somebody look at bug 1555046 and help us get it uploaded? the shimmer-themes package is snatched from xubuntu by some dependencies to the kubuntu packageset so we're unable to do that ourself
[13:15] <knome> cheers!
[14:22] <smoser> pitti, "conflicts/before=shutdown.target" ?
[14:29] <pitti> smoser: that's to ensure that it gets stopped on shutdown (shouldn't be relevant, it's just standard practice; see man systemd.service DefaultDependencies)
[14:29] <smoser> ah. ok.
[14:30] <smoser> is there a way that i can get systemd to print a log with microsecond timestampos of services and targets ?
[14:30] <smoser> that were started thus far.
[14:54] <smoser> pitti, ^ is that just an ignorant question ?
[14:54] <pitti> smoser: (in meeting, bbl)
[14:54] <smoser> perfectly acceptable. thanks.
[15:00] <pitti> smoser: jounralctl -o short-precise?
[15:00] <pitti> smoser: journal always stores microseconds, it's just output formatting/presentation
[15:02] <smoser> but that is just stuff that got written to journal
[15:03] <smoser> (had journal output or somethingt)
[15:03] <smoser> suytemd ran a bunch of servivces and decided that some targets were reached.
[15:03] <smoser> it did that at certain points in the boot
[15:04] <smoser> i'd like to get timestamps of every one of those.
[15:04] <smoser> systemd-analyze critical-chain is useful
[15:20] <pitti> smoser: yes, these are recorded in the journal too
[15:21] <pitti> smoser: Mär 10 05:01:27.102984 donald systemd[1]: Starting Load Kernel Modules...
[15:21] <pitti> smoser: something like this "Starting/Started", coming from systemd itself)
[15:22] <pitti> smoser: yeah, systemd-analyze can massage these nicely too; "plot" for the visually inclined :)
[15:23] <caribou> infinity: regarding the mstflint adujstment of yesterday I have a few final questions
[15:24] <caribou> infinity: trusty's version is 1.4-OFED-1.4.2-1ubuntu1 and wily's version is 3.7.0+1.18.gcdb9f80-3.1ubuntu2. I supposed that the versionned Breaks should be << 3.7.0+1.18.gcdb9f80-3.1ubuntu2 (wily's) ?
[15:24] <smoser> pitti, ok. i was just not seeing what i was looking for becausae systemd shows the 'Description' there
[15:24] <smoser> which then you have to map back to the unit
[15:25] <smoser> ie, if i want to know about 'pollinate'
[15:25] <smoser> # journalctl -o short-precise | grep Seed
[15:25] <smoser> that works
[15:25] <smoser> but this does nto
[15:25] <smoser> # journalctl -o short-precise | grep pollinate
[15:25] <smoser> not even
[15:25] <pitti> smoser: systemctl show <unit> also shows the timestamp, in case that's easier
[15:27] <smoser> what is the MONOTONIC things there ?
[15:28] <smoser> unless its hidden in one of those, 'show' only seems to show 1 second granularity
[15:28] <pitti> smoser: clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC); probably not relevant for you, unless you deal with ntp or TZ shifts in between
[15:29] <pitti> clock_gettime(3) has the gazillion different clocks that Linux provides
[16:07] <pitti> barry: so pysmbc is on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt wanting to go to universe
[16:08] <pitti> barry: a bit curious, I thought we wanted to kill python *2* stuff
[16:08] <barry> pitti: this is all caught up in the samba madness
[16:09] <barry> pitti: in some respects python3-samba should stay in main because it can get installed on-demand by system-config-printer.  but it's off the desktop iso now, so...?
[16:11] <pitti> barry: so I guess it can go, it's expected to not be there by default
[16:11] <pitti> ?
[16:12] <barry> pitti: i think that's fine for now.  unfortunately py2 won't get booted off the desktop in 16.04 because of gvfs-backends.  we'll have to make more progress on upstream samba get any further.  boot it to universe for now
[16:12] <coreycb> pitti, I had 2 packages in the xenial new queue that aren't showing up now (python-neutron-lib and python-aodhclient).  should I re-upload?
[16:12] <barry> pitti: (possible it will get re-mained in 16.10)
[16:15] <pitti> coreycb: err, no idea, did someone reject them? (you should have gotten a mail about that)
[16:17] <coreycb> pitti, I don't see anything, I'll try to upload again
[16:22] <pitti> rbasak: I'm a bit confused, why does the ubuntu-server metapackage want to go to universe?
[16:23] <pitti> rbasak: are we not using that any more? I. e. intended (and should it perhaps be removed?) or unintentional?
[16:23] <ogra_> main got to small for it
[16:23] <ogra_> it now wants the whole thing :)
[16:23] <pitti> I thought that was apt-get install fillherup
[16:24]  * ogra_ assumes thats a bug ... we still produce server isos
[16:24] <pitti> well, there was talk about unifying cloud and server images etc., so it's not entirely implausible that it's by intent
[16:24] <rbasak> smoser: ^
[16:25] <ogra_> well, we definitely want the server task ... not sure if the metapackage is (was ever) actually needed
[16:25] <rbasak> I think smoser wants the metapackage so that it's clear when removing packages that you're removing ubuntu-server.
[16:26] <rbasak> So it defines what ubuntu-server is better.
[16:26] <smoser> i certainly dont want ubuntu-server in universe.
[16:26] <ogra_> (does it anything more than installing openssh-server on top of ubuntu-standard ? )
[16:26] <ogra_> ah, right, removals
[16:26]  * ogra_ didnt think of that
[16:34] <pitti> also, dist-upgrades
[16:34] <pitti> those are the reasons why we keep the package in main for desktop
[16:34] <pitti> and we seed the metapackage into "itself"
[16:36] <smoser> pitti, so yes, i guess we should seed that package
[16:36] <pitti> hm, it wasn't seeded in wily either
[16:36] <pitti> ah!
[16:36] <pitti> it's new in xenial
[16:36] <smoser> its new in xenial
[16:36] <smoser> seeding a metapackage derived from the seed seemed to circular tom e
[16:37] <pitti> the metapackage doesn't define the seed
[16:37] <pitti> we do have (a lot of) seeds without metapackages, too
[16:37] <pitti> smoser: ok, thanks for cleaning that up; this was a bit confusing
[16:37] <nacc> is it expected that dpgk-gencontrol doesn't respect -N in DH_OPTIONS?
[16:38] <pitti> nacc: yes, DH_* is a debhelper option
[16:38] <pitti> nacc: if you mean dh_gencontrol, then no
[16:40]  * pitti waves good night, still not feeling too well
[16:42] <smoser> pitti, the metapackage is derived from the seed.
[16:43] <nacc> pitti: err, sorry, meant that, yeah
[16:43] <smoser> so adding it to the seed seems circular
[16:44] <nacc> pitti: will investigate
[17:17] <attente> juliank: hi. is there some way to trigger an apt update over dbus (with aptdaemon or packagekit or some other service)?
[17:18] <juliank> Yes, with both
[17:18] <juliank> don't ask me how
[17:24] <attente> juliank: ok. i was trying with org.debian.apt.RefreshCache but for whatever reason it doesn't seem to do anything...
[17:27]  * juliank would use PK's org.freedesktop.PackageKit.Transaction.RefreshCache ()
[18:36] <nacc> slangasek: is it just a matter of timing, or is there a reason php7.0 is stil in excuses? I see "Valid candidate" so that just means it hasn't been moved yet?
[18:43] <Pharaoh_Atem> :(
[18:43] <Pharaoh_Atem> ubuntu-devel is moderated :(
[18:43] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: yeah.. you get used to it
[18:44] <Pharaoh_Atem> what's amazing is that none of the other distro MLs I'm on are
[18:44] <Pharaoh_Atem> or at least, they aren't anymore
[19:07] <dobey> hmm, why isn't x11-xserver-utils migrated
[19:09] <nacc> dobey: relatively the same question i just had about php7.0 -- seems like there a few "Valid candidates" that are a bit old
[19:09] <nacc> dobey: not sure how that works
[19:10] <dobey> yeah, but i don't need php7 to get 60Hz on 4K monitor :)
[19:10] <nacc> dobey: heh
[19:10] <dobey> do need full stack for xrandr 1.5 though
[19:13] <streulma> hello, am I right here for 16.04 questions ?
[19:14] <streulma> shim disabled Secure Boot... How can I enable it again ?
[19:17] <dobey> #ubuntu is the general support channel; #ubuntu+1 is for "next release" stuff, so might be more appropriate
[19:23] <brendand> hi, having a hard time creating a static cp binary on trusty
[19:24] <brendand> please don't ask why
[19:25] <brendand> got and configured coreutils source
[19:25] <brendand> then 'make SHARED=0 CC="gcc -fPIC -static -std=gnu99"'
[19:27] <sarnold> that's a funny CC
[19:27] <sarnold> try CFLAGS="-fPIC -static -std=gnu99"  instead
[19:28] <sarnold> alternatively grab sash or busybox or something? :)
[19:28] <sarnold> brendand: ^^^
[19:28] <lewq> maybe http://askubuntu.com/questions/530617/how-to-make-a-static-binary-of-coreutils ?
[19:29] <brendand> is the one in busybox static?
[19:29] <brendand> sarnold: but CFLAGS did the trick, thanks
[19:31] <rharper> smoser: rbasak:  please git-dsc-import tgt to ubuntu-server-dev in launchpad when you get a chance;
[19:31] <smoser> k
[19:34] <chiluk> is anyone else running xenial having massive issues with network-manager not respecting DNS settings when connecting to VPNs?
[19:34]  * Pharaoh_Atem shrugs
[19:34] <chiluk> basically whenever I connect to the vpn it uses the vpn dns servers in spite of the fact I've told it not to.
[19:35] <Pharaoh_Atem> sounds like an NM 1.0.x issue
[19:35] <Pharaoh_Atem> which vpn type are you using?
[19:38] <sarnold> chiluk: there's a handful of bugs about dhc* issues.. apparently an isc dhcpcd or dhclient runs with threads but one of the isc bind libraries is not thread safe..
[19:44] <chiluk> I was leaning more towards network-manager being the culprit.
[21:15] <juliank> tkamppeter: Maybe you know why hplip has a hplip-kubuntu.desktop, and why the names are different? The reason given is 'Kubuntu doesn't have any application categorised in "Settings"' - but the hplip.desktop (now?) uses  Categories=Application;Utility; - I assume that's fine?
[21:15]  * juliank is doing a massive hplip packaging cleanup
[21:16] <juliank> (in Debian)
[21:31] <stefanct> minor bug in glibc(?) package in xenial: http://dpaste.com/042441N (i am upgrading a test machine right now)
[21:34] <nacc> stefanct: hrm, it's escaped in xenial for me
[21:34] <nacc> stefanct: and that's not a bug in libc, it's a reported warning in the specified perl file
[21:34] <nacc> afaict
[21:35] <nacc> stefanct: both are escaped in my (current) install of xenial
[21:35] <stefanct> it is but apparently triggered by configuring the libc package... i have not looked at the code
[21:35] <nacc> i mean, it *should* complain about every package, i think
[21:35] <nacc> not just libc
[21:35] <nacc> as it's going to complain about the deprecation on every load of that file
[21:36] <nacc> stefanct: what perl do yo have installed (apt-cache policy perl)
[21:36] <nacc> stefanct: err, rather debconf
[21:36] <stefanct> it definitely does not for every other package (i have seen it only for glibc yet) but i can look at the log later
[21:37] <stefanct> well, right now 1.5.58ubuntu1 but it might have been updated already
[21:39] <nacc> stefanct: yeah, i'm on that version and the referred to source file does not have the referred to issue
[21:39] <nacc> stefanct: xenial is a moving target, so i think it's been fixed
[21:42] <nacc> stefanct: looking at the changelog that was fixed in wily (1.5.57ubuntu1)
[21:42] <nacc> stefanct: technically in debian, 1.5.57
[21:42] <nacc> stefanct: it's possible the perl update is what caused the deprecation to get emitted (as the chagnelog mentions the message shows up with 5.22 and on)
[21:43] <stefanct> ill check the log when it is done to look for the sequence and versions of perl and debconf upgrades
[21:44] <nacc> yeal, wily had 5.20, it seems, so if it was a wily -> xenial upgrade, i think those messages may be possible, not sure
[21:52] <nacc> rbasak: hey, so trying to understand why php7.0 hasn't migrated yet, can you explain how that works?
[21:52] <rbasak> nacc: so in update_excuses.html, we see "Valid candidate", so next is to look at update_output.txt
[21:53] <rbasak> Here, it's trying to find a combination of packages to migrate to the release pocket such that the number of uninstallable packages does not increase.
[21:53] <rbasak> trying: php7.0
[21:53] <rbasak> * amd64: fusiondirectory, fusiondirectory-plugin-addressbook, fusiondirectory-plugin-alias...
[21:53] <nacc> rbasak: ah that's what i was missing! this other file
[21:53] <rbasak> These are the packages that it says will become uninstallable in the release pocket if php7.0's binaries were to migrate to the release pocket.
[21:53] <rbasak> Trying easy from autohinter: php7.0/7.0.3-9ubuntu1 phpunit/5.1.3-1+ubuntu3 php-defaults/32ubuntu1 php-codesniffer/2.5.1-1ubuntu4
[21:54] <rbasak> Here you can see that it's trying to migrate multiple packages at once, but it hits the same problem.
[21:54] <rbasak> I'd start by seeing why fusiondirectory is uninstallable. "chdist apt-get xenial-proposed install fusiondirectory" may tell us enough.
[21:55] <nacc> rbasak: yep, thanks!
[21:55] <nacc> rbasak: in this case, i know what's goi gon
[21:55] <rbasak> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
[21:55] <rbasak>  fusiondirectory : Depends: php-imap but it is not going to be installed
[21:55] <rbasak>                    Depends: php-mcrypt but it is not going to be installed
[21:55] <nacc> gosa at least is blocked
[21:55] <nacc> yep
[21:55] <nacc> i am working on fixing that now
[21:56] <nacc> we have to split hte src package
[21:56] <nacc> effectively
[21:56] <nacc> so that the universe targets can build
[21:56] <rbasak> OK, great. More information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
[21:56] <nacc> rbasak: so that makes more sense to me
[21:56] <nacc> rbasak: thank you very much!
[21:56] <rbasak> No problem!
[22:02] <nacc> rbasak: so in the split, we have two control files, the universe one adds the universe build-deps to the base source ... would it be better to just add a substituion variable and keep all the differences between the two packages confined to debian/rules?
[22:02] <nacc> rbasak: a control fine two different packages, to be clear
[22:03] <rbasak> Unfortunately you can't do that in the source section of the control file, AFAIK.
[22:03] <rbasak> (so build deps)
[22:04] <nacc> rbasak: ah ok, answers that question then :)
[22:04] <nacc> rbasak: i was trying to find the cleanest "delta" (not a proper delta, but basically waht is needed to build the unvierse package given the main source package)
[22:06] <stefanct> nacc: first perl (5.22.1-8) over (5.18.2-2ubuntu1.1); then libc6:amd64 (2.21-0ubuntu6) over (2.19-0ubuntu6.7); then debconf (1.5.58ubuntu1) over (1.5.51ubuntu2)
[22:06] <nacc> stefanct: ah so it's an artifact of the ordering, i guess
[22:06] <nacc> stefanct: as after debconf is upgraded, the message is gone
[22:07] <stefanct> and it was from trusty
[22:07] <nacc> rbasak: it seems like one suggestion is to use sed and a marker in the clean override, but that doesn't seem so much better to justify adding the complexity
[22:10] <stefanct> i am not so sure about that... the message came exactly two times. for libc6 and libc-dev-bin. and actually i think it was the "unpacking" stage that produced it... it's a bit hard to tread from the log because it sees to be slightly out of order (is there any parallelism?)
[22:12] <nacc> stefanct: why aren't you sure? the perl upgrade led to the deprecated warning, which is emmited by debconf Perl files when libc6 gets configured, then debconf gets upgrade and silences the warning
[22:12] <nacc> s/silences/fixes/
[22:13] <stefanct> there were lots of packages in between
[22:14] <nacc> stefanct: between the perl and debconf upgrades?
[22:14] <nacc> stefanct: sorry, I read the above, as the actual order and packages
[22:15] <stefanct> between both paris respectively
[22:15] <nacc> stefanct: can you pastebin the log?
[22:15] <stefanct> *pairs :)
[22:16] <stefanct> well, i have that information from the screenlog because it seems to be the only one containing all the information including the message - but it is rather unreadable
[22:16] <stefanct> the apt.log might be suitable i guess?
[22:17] <nacc> yeah, maybe
[22:17] <stefanct> (if you trust me on the bogus messages :)
[22:17] <stefanct> ill pastebin both
[22:22] <rharper> how does one systemd services using Type=notify and a daemon that's supposed to sd_notify ?
[22:22] <stefanct> oh well... the screenlog is almost 2MB and neither dpaste nor debian.net like that. apt.log: http://paste.debian.net/413989/
[22:23] <nacc> rbasak: no need to reply, but it seems like for the univesre source packge, that i can dh_installdocs --link-doc to php7.0-common; is that ok?
[22:23] <nacc> rbasak: that's per hte debian policy, i mean
[22:56] <nacc> slangasek: ok, i've got a split package working with everything but php-interbase, which i think needs some extra tweaking (will work on that next). I think that will clear out a lot of the queue (as php7.0 should  migrate then)
[22:56] <nacc> slangasek: so my plan is to send it in a bug as d ebdiff for php7.0 and a new pckage request for the universe source package
[23:08] <slangasek> nacc: sounds good, thanks
[23:10] <nacc> slangasek: np, i think i've got interbase figured, out just need to get the right configure tweak in place; it seems like the extension is relying on something from the -common makefile that isn't run now. Sorry it's taken so long! Had to learn a bit about makefiles :)
[23:56] <mwhudson> i wonder when the last time the "Package has already been uploaded to" check in dput actually helped anyone was
[23:58] <nacc> mwhudson: :)
[23:58] <mwhudson> i guess i should just alias dput='dput -f'
[23:59] <nacc> mwhudson: i think dput -f for PPAs is probably fine, I got in the habit of the same myself
[23:59] <nacc> although that wsa the result of the (bad?) habit of not inserting changelog entries for one-off builds


[03:38] <gambler2003> Good Morning people.  I need a bit of help with a Dell inspiron 1501.  When I run the CD it won't find any disks or partitions.
[03:46] <gambler2003> anybody out there that might be able to help?


[12:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84453 in msttcorefonts (multiverse) "msttcorefonts installs non-free fonts automatically and doesn't ask if user agrees with license" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84453
[12:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84454 in ubiquity (main) "Installation Crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84454
[12:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84455 in linux-meta (main) "ondemand cpu governor prevents resume from RAM on X60s" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84455
[12:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84456 in firefox (main) "Firefox quits when trying to play a real-audio without having a player installed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84456
[12:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84457 in beryl-settings (universe) "[apport]  beryl-settings crashed with AttributeError in MakeBackendWidgets()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84457
[01:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84458 in gdm (main) "gdmsetup does not work, lacks custom.conf" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84458
[01:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84459 in beryl-settings (universe) "[apport]  beryl-settings crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84459
[01:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84460 in Ubuntu "feisty log out xserver crash-system crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84460
[01:39] <parag0n> hey guys, i've just run across a bug in ubuntu with brltty, i've tried to report it on launchpad, but it won't send me a confirmation email
[02:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84461 in Ubuntu "sysinfo failed dbus connection" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84461
[02:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84462 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with NameError in init_proxy()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84462
[02:34] <FliesLikeABrick> parag0n what is the domain of the e-mail address you're trying to register with?
[02:34] <FliesLikeABrick> hotmail by chance?
[02:36] <parag0n> nope
[02:36] <parag0n> its a proper domain
[02:36] <FliesLikeABrick> not being caught as spam?
[02:37] <parag0n> nope, i've checked the spam bin
[02:37] <FliesLikeABrick> do you know if the mailserver uses graylisting?
[02:37] <parag0n> i dont
[02:37] <parag0n> (know)
[02:38] <FliesLikeABrick> does launchpad let you request another confirmation e-mail if you try logging in?
[02:39] <FliesLikeABrick> if the mailserver uses greylisting, that could be the cause of the delay.  If thats the case, then requesting another e-mail now should work and you'll get the other one later
[02:52] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84463 in exaile (universe) "Exaile need  python-gtkhtml2 to show the "Information" tab" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84463
[03:07] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84464 in xorg (main) "frequent X freezes (6.10, x86_64, nv driver)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84464
[03:07] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84465 in Ubuntu "cannot acces to the "select pkg sources window"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84465
[03:07] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84466 in vim (main) "[apport]  package vim-tiny failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84466
[03:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84467 in coreutils (main) "md5sum can't read md5 files with CRLF line terminators" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84467
[03:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84469 in gnome-vfs (universe) "Gnome-vfs FTP file transfer : wrong order replacing files on a remote FTP server" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84469
[03:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84470 in linux-source-2.6.15 (main) "CPIA webcam support has sysfs problem" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84470
[03:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84471 in gnome-games (main) "[apport]  gnome-sudoku crashed with KeyError in entry_validate()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84471
[04:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84472 in bughelper (main) "documentation out of date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84472
[04:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84473 in ubiquity (main) "manual partitioning fails in numerous fatal ways, ERASES WRONG PARITTION. Bad kubuntu! Bad!" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84473
[04:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84474 in Ubuntu "feisty mute" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84474
[04:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84475 in gnome-schedule (universe) "[gnome-schedule]  GUI behaves wrong" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84475
[04:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84476 in apt (main) "Wedged at 100% cpu with --fix-missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84476
[04:37] <cowbud> anyone awake? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/83997 should this bug be closed since upstream responsded to the person and denied his request?
[04:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83997 in tracker "tracker should not index mounted directory trees" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[04:38] <cowbud> or will it automatically be taken care of when they clear it out of the gnome bugzilla db?
[04:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84478 in tracker (universe) "[feisty]  tracker doesn't install properly " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84478
[04:56] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84480 in acpi-support (main) "power button is ignored by acpi scripts when running kpowersave" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84480
[05:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84481 in firefox (main) "libnss3 does not depend on libnspr" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84481
[05:32] <kgoetz> Burgundavia: ping?
[05:33] <Burgundavia> kgoetz: pong
[05:33] <Burgundavia> re: https://launchpad.net/bugs/84477
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84477 in ubuntu-website "linspire missing from news page" [Undecided,Rejected]
[05:33] <Burgundavia> ?
[05:34] <kgoetz> Burgundavia: yes. i was trying to say 'linspire should be on teh derived distros page'
[05:34] <kgoetz> rather then 'the press release is wrong'
[05:34] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:34] <kgoetz> :/
[05:34] <kgoetz> sorry, i was a bit far from lucid, but didnt realise until you replied
[05:34] <Burgundavia> ah, oops
[05:35] <Burgundavia> kgoetz: ok, fixed the bug report
[05:36] <kgoetz> Burgundavia: thank you
[05:36] <Burgundavia> no worries
[05:36] <kgoetz> sorry about the sas in the reply too... :/
[06:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84482 in Ubuntu "installer crashed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84482
[06:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84483 in rezound (universe) "rezound crashed when undoing large action while playing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84483
[07:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84485 in linux-source-2.6.17 (main) "Notvatel Merlin UX870 HDSPA card not supported on Kernel 2.6.17" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84485
[07:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84486 in vm (universe) "vm for emacs21 ignores variable user-mail-address" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84486
[08:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84487 in backuppc (main) "removing deb leaves symlink which causes apache to fail starting" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84487
[08:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84488 in Ubuntu "Problem with wireless card" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84488
[08:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84489 in bughelper (main) "~/.bughelper/config not created by sudo apt-get install bughelper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84489
[09:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84490 in Ubuntu "Skype corrupts synaptic after file move" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84490
[09:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84491 in bughelper (main) "missing options in bughelper man page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84491
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84493 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with SystemError in open()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84493
[09:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84492 in xmms (main) "xmms crashes on start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84492
[09:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84494 in Ubuntu "impossible to shutdown the system" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84494
[10:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84495 in Ubuntu "Sound doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84495
[10:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84496 in system-tools-backends (main) "run-parts: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/70system-tools-backends exited with return code 1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84496
[10:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84497 in openoffice.org (main) "Crash on navigating bad symlink in Save As..." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84497
[11:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84498 in net-snmp (main) "snmpd doesn't report correct uptime" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84498
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84501 in epiphany-browser (main) "Java6 Web Start just opens the Java control panel instead of running the application" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84501
[11:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84502 in ontv (universe) "2.4.0 is out" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84502
[11:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84503 in language-pack-cs (main) "gnome: budi" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84503
[12:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84505 in Ubuntu "sound volume control broken on dell inspiron 9300 laptop" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84505
[12:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84507 in Ubuntu "Thinkpad T43p no longer suspends" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84507
[12:02] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84504 in Ubuntu ""Report a problem" opens the url with the users home dir as prefix" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84504
[12:08] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84506 in Ubuntu "radeon in feisty: black screen at start gdm" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84506
[12:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84509 in devede (multiverse) "lacks dependency on python-gtk2 and python-glade2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84509
[12:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84510 in gpixpod (universe) "[apport]  gpixpod.py crashed with UnboundLocalError in HALdetect()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84510
[12:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84508 in synaptic (main) "[apport]  synaptic crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84508
[12:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84511 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with SystemError in open()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84511
[12:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84512 in rhythmbox (main) "Rythmbox crashed while modifying a songs properties" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84512
[12:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84514 in pulseaudio (main) "Doesn't start on Thinkpad R51" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84514
[12:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84515 in Ubuntu "2 python packages not present in fr.archive" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84515
[01:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84518 in exaile (universe) "[apport]  exaile crashed with TypeError in update_rating()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84518
[01:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84520 in mono (main) "several applications generate the same mono unhandled execption" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84520
[01:48] <Le-Chuck_IT1> Hi there
[01:49] <Le-Chuck_IT1> should bug #77026 be marked as "fix released" or did I misunderstand the ubuntu BTS?
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77026 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Update toshiba_acpi.c to version 0.19a" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77026
[01:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84522 in puredata (universe) "Hang or Crash when deleting one of multiple references to a subpatch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84522
[01:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84523 in gnome-power-manager (main) "[feisty]  regression: gnome-power-manager is unable to set brightness" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84523
[02:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84524 in Ubuntu "thinkpad t20 doesn't poweroff on shutdown" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84524
[02:27] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84525 in ubiquity (main) "install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84525
[02:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84528 in linux-source-2.6.17 (main) "kernel 2.6.17-11-server with speedtouch usb modem" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84528
[02:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84526 in gnash (universe) "Gnash menu launcher (/usr/share/applications/gnash.desktop file) doesn't start any application, also gnash isn't asociated with SWF mimetype" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84526
[02:31] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84527 in kdebase (main) "Kubuntu Feisty crash when rebooting or turning off from KDE session" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84527
[02:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84529 in ubiquity (main) "edgy install crashes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84529
[02:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84530 in pdftk (universe) "pdftk man page is out-of-date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84530
[02:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84531 in sagcad (universe) "sagcad crashed on use of dimension line" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84531
[02:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84532 in openoffice.org2-amd64 (main) "File Dialogs too small" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84532
[02:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84533 in gdb-doc (main) "sync request" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84533
[02:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84534 in nautilus (main) "Folder properties bug" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84534
[03:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84535 in bristol (universe) "Please get in sync with upstream versions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84535
[03:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84536 in Ubuntu "Feisty problem with MC and  folder contains "_"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84536
[03:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84537 in procps (main) "sysctl.conf, net.ipv4.conf.default.forwarding, race condition?" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84537
[03:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84538 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_device_get_history()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84538
[03:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84540 in linux-source-2.6.20 (main) "Ricoh R5C592 memory card reader 5-in-1 doesn't work on Lenovo N100 3000" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84540
[03:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84541 in bluez-utils (main) "[feisty]  bluetooth mouse doesn't connect automatically" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84541
[03:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84542 in ubiquity (main) "Xubuntu feisty Desktop-CD (installer crashed 86%)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84542
[03:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84543 in Ubuntu "parameters problem in Feisty hard drive partitioner program" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84543
[03:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84544 in tsclient (main) "Wrong X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain key in tsclient.desktop file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84544
[03:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84545 in firefox (main) "firefox crash on youtube" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84545
[04:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84547 in Ubuntu "mis-functioning when hitting the restart now button on feisty herd 3 installation" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84547
[04:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84548 in Ubuntu "Software sources button does not function of Feisty herd 3" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84548
[04:09] <fernando> hi all
[04:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84549 in qps (universe) "qps crash when double click python hpssd process" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84549
[04:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84550 in ubiquity (main) "In step 5, user name should be guessed when the personal name is entered" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84550
[04:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84551 in Ubuntu "Rhythmbox audio still audible with sound muted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84551
[04:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84553 in thunar (main) "usr_lib_thunar_xfce4_panel-plugins_thunar-tpa.1000.crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84553
[04:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84554 in gnome-applets (main) "clock applet does not load evolution calendars" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84554
[04:42] <pochu> hi coNP :)
[04:44] <coNP> hey p
[04:44] <coNP> ouchu :)
[05:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84556 in gnome-utils (main) "[baobab]  Missing X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain key in baobab.desktop file" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84556
[05:02] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84557 in xorg (main) "x.org from 6.10 incorrectly detects HorizSync for the Dell Latitude C800 panel" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84557
[05:05] <pochu> coNP: do you know bash?
[05:06] <coNP> pochu: yep
[05:06] <coNP> pochu: or more likely that "depends on"
[05:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84558 in ubuntu-meta (main) "6.10 installer is unuseable at 800x600" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84558
[05:06] <pochu> coNP: could you take a look at bug 65496? I think the script can be wrong
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65496 in amule "Amuled leaves zombie processes" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/65496
[05:06] <coNP> pochu: sure
[05:07] <pochu> thanks :)
[05:14] <trace_E_G> Hello
[05:15] <trace_E_G> Can someone help me config my sound on a IBM 600e using 6.10?
[05:15] <coNP> hi trace_E_G, I guess you should use #ubuntu for this
[05:16] <trace_E_G> ok sorry ddn't see that
[05:16] <coNP> trace_E_G: np :)
[05:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84559 in Ubuntu "Invalid "no root partition" message from 6.10 installer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84559
[05:21] <coNP> pochu: I don't know how amule executes scripts, but this seems to be fine for the first look
[05:21] <pochu> coNP: ok, thanks :)
[05:21] <pochu> coNP: I'll try to reproduce it
[05:22] <coNP> pochu: good luck :)
[05:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84560 in firefox (main) "firefox crashes when trying to open Adblock window" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84560
[05:40] <medders> Hi, is there any chance I could have a hand with a bug?
[05:40] <medders> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/84448
[05:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84448 in Ubuntu "Theme Manager in Ubuntu Not Wroking-Hanging " [Undecided,Needs info]
[05:42] <medders> I'm not quite sure waht to do
[05:42] <medders> what*
[05:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84561 in mplayer (multiverse) "new mplayer gives garbage audio output" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84561
[05:54] <pochu> medders: the first thing you should do is change the package to the proper one :)
[05:55] <medders> pochu: Okay, which package would you recommend? He says it affects more that ubuntu-theme-manager
[05:55] <medders> would you say ubuntu-desktop?
[05:56] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84562 in puredata (universe) "Save status not changed when abstraction canvas properties changed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84562
[05:56] <pochu> medders: he says it affects gnome-theme-manager, right?
[05:57] <medders> pochu: yeah, but now he's saying it affects more than that
[05:57] <pochu> lol
[05:57] <pochu> hehe
[05:58] <medders> :)
[05:59] <pochu> medders: I think we should first see if this fails in an Ubuntu system (not Kubuntu with ubuntu-desktop)
[05:59] <pochu> medders: if it doesn't fail, I think this is a ubuntu-desktop, or a gtk bug
[05:59] <medders> okay
[06:00] <pochu> medders: but that's just my opinion ;)
[06:00] <pochu> coNP: WDYT?
[06:02] <medders> pochu:  I take it its probably in ubuntu-desktop
[06:02] <medders> pochu: my theme manager has always worked in a default install, and I think most peoples have
[06:02] <pochu> medders: maybe he is losing a gtk lib (maybe not)
[06:02] <pochu> I think also mine
[06:02] <medders> true, how would I check that?
[06:05] <pochu> medders: libgtk2.0-0, does that in his system? (ask him)
[06:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84563 in Ubuntu "kdetv sometimes failes to release v4l resources" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84563
[06:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84564 in Ubuntu "pcc_acpi is not available as a package" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84564
[06:06] <medders> should I ask him to do "sudo aptitude install libgtk2.0-0" and tell me if it installers or if it's already there?
[06:07] <medders> i doubt hed know if its installed himself
[06:08] <pochu> medders: dpkg -l libgtk2.0-0
[06:08] <medders> I didn't know you could do that, thanks
[06:08] <pochu> medders: and if it's not there, I would ask him to install and to test again
[06:08] <pochu> medders: np :)
[06:09] <pochu> medders: but that about libgtk is just an opinion :)
[06:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84565 in totem (main) "totem crashes, while copying files from dvd to hdd" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84565
[06:15] <medders> pochu: I've asked him to do that, hopefully we'll hear back soon
[06:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84566 in Ubuntu "lm-sensors not working on vaio vgn fe 11s module: i2c-i801" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84566
[06:20] <pochu> medders: and hopefully that solves the issue :) If that solves it, this would be an ubuntu-desktop bug, with missed dependencies, I think
[06:21] <medders> pochu: that would be handy :)
[06:21] <pochu> :)
[06:22] <medders> is there a bug triagers mentoring scheme?
[06:23] <medders> that would be handy, because for a newbie like me it's really useful to have someone helping
[06:23] <pochu> medders: sure, one moment :)
[06:24] <pochu> medders: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
[06:24] <pochu> medders: and once you are familiar with bugs, you may want to join the BugSquad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[06:25] <medders> I'm already a member, and I've read the wiki-page, I'm just not that good at spotting the signs yet I'm afraid
[06:25] <medders> I guess it takes experience more than anything
[06:26] <pochu> medders: sure. I'm also a little noob :) but with time you get experience :)
[06:28] <medders> yeah, hopefully I'll learn from my mistrake too, I've made enough of them
[06:28] <medders> mistakes*
[06:31] <pochu> medders: I also did, and I also do nowadays :)
[06:31] <pochu> hehe
[06:31] <pochu> medders: but the best thing you can do is ask :)
[06:32] <medders> definitely, there's no point guessing and fouling it up big time
[06:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84555 in Ubuntu "Konqueror resets position to top of page on new page load" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84555
[06:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84568 in Ubuntu "numlock light not working" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84568
[06:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84567 in gnome-power-manager (main) "[feisty]  gnome-power-manager memory growth" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84567
[06:54] <pochu> coNP: around?
[06:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84570 in Ubuntu "Postscript files fail to open in separate KGhostView from Konqueror" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84570
[06:56] <pochu> coNP: could you take a look at bug 84261?
[06:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84261 in update-manager "Update manager don't make upgrade" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84261
[06:57] <pochu> coNP: I can't understand what's happening :S
[07:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84569 in ntfs-3g (universe) "[UVF exception request]  ntfs-3g-0.0.0+20070207" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84569
[07:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84571 in xserver-xgl (universe) "beryl crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84571
[07:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84572 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with BadStatusLine in _read_status()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84572
[07:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84573 in firefox (main) "Crash report" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84573
[07:08] <pochu> coNP: there is no need in looking that bug, already closed :)
[07:32] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84574 in mesa-utils (main) "glx info crashes after nvidia-glx-legacy install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84574
[07:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84576 in gnomebaker (universe) "GnomeBaker crashed after just wipping a CDRW." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84576
[07:42] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84575 in Ubuntu ""report a problem" bad browser http address" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84575
[07:43] <bddebian> Boo
[07:45] <pochu> hi bddebian :)
[07:46] <bddebian> Hello pochu
[07:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84577 in ubiquity (main) "Installer crashes during installation" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84577
[08:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84578 in linux-source-2.6.20 (main) "run ipw3945d as non-root" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84578
[08:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84579 in hardinfo (universe) "Hardinfo crash" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84579
[08:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84580 in avahi (main) "avahi-autoipd causes failure if multiple networking stanzas exist" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84580
[08:21] <coNP> pochu: sorry, I was away :)
[08:21] <pochu> coNP: np :)
[08:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84586 in gnome-themes (main) "Please remove 6 of 7 a11y themes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84586
[08:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84587 in gnome-panel (main) "[feisty]  launcher with arguments in command don't display" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84587
[08:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84588 in Ubuntu "Installer does not detect Samsung SyncMaster 214T" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84588
[08:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84589 in feisty-gdm-themes (main) "please package high contrast theme" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84589
[08:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84590 in Ubuntu "Incorrect resolution detected, with refresh of "-19568 Hz"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84590
[08:43] <pochu> Burgundavia: ping?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> pochu: pong
[08:43] <pochu> Burgundavia: I commented some bugs you reported against compiz, could you check them?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> yep, will do
[08:44] <pochu> Burgundavia: thanks :)
[08:57] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84591 in Ubuntu "feisty 20070210 persistent doesn't" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84591
[09:04] <pochu> coNP: ping?
[09:04] <coNP> pochu: ponh
[09:04] <coNP> s/h/g/
[09:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84592 in Ubuntu "feisty shutdown eject doesn't" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84592
[09:07] <pochu> coNP: could you take a look at bug 81858? what importance do you think it is?
[09:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81858 in firefox "Digg.com slows down the browser" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81858
[09:08] <coNP> pochu: looking
[09:09] <pochu> thanks!
[09:09] <coNP> pochu: not more than low
[09:09] <pochu> :)
[09:09] <pochu> thanks :)
[09:09] <coNP> pochu: there are lots of workarounds
[09:10] <pochu> for example, open firefox and go to digg.com? :)
[09:10] <coNP> no
[09:10] <coNP> open galeon or konqueror
[09:10] <coNP> or w3m :)
[09:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84593 in Ubuntu "dont know what to say" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84593
[09:11] <pochu> coNP: if it also fails with galeon and konqueror and opera and... then it's a digg problem, right?
[09:11] <pochu> I think :)
[09:11] <pochu> lol
[09:11] <pochu> bug 84593 hahaha :)
[09:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84593 in Ubuntu "dont know what to say" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84593
[09:11] <coNP> there are now some very funny bug(description)s
[09:13] <pochu> hehe
[09:13] <pochu> coNP: please do it!! :)
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84594 in base-installer (main) "Screen Resolution Failure During Fawn Install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84594
[09:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84595 in wormux (universe) "[UVF exception request]  wormux 0.7.9-2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84595
[09:36] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84597 in ubiquity (main) "[apport]  ubiquity crashed with AssertionError in subst()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84597
[09:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84598 in totem (main) "totem-video-thumbnailer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84598
[09:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84600 in firefox (main) "file quit does not work in firefox" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84600
[09:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84599 in totem (main) "totem-video-thumbnailer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84599
[09:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84601 in mono (main) "Mono crashes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84601
[10:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84602 in eclipse-pydev (universe) "Eclipse + pydev" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84602
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84603 in hal (main) "Hard disk I/O randomly freezes when hald is running and optical drive is empty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84603
[10:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84604 in sylpheed (universe) "[UVF exception request]  sylpheed 2.3.1-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84604
[10:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84605 in scim (main) "scim CPU & RAM 100% and won't start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84605
[10:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84606 in gaim (main) "gaim crashes and quit" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84606
[11:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84608 in software-properties (main) "software-properties --enable-component is broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84608
[11:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84610 in software-properties (main) "software-properties-kde has window title "Form"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84610
[11:02] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84609 in sox (universe) ""play" command doesn't use ALSA by default" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84609
[11:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84613 in update-manager (main) "[apport]  update-manager crashed with SystemError in open()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84613
[11:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84614 in gnome-themes (main) "To low constrast in cons" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84614
[11:12] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84611 in Ubuntu "Se ha cerrado inesperadamente." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84611
[11:12] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84612 in software-properties (main) "Automatic Updates setting not saved" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84612
[11:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84615 in tftp-hpa (main) "Uses /var/lib/tftpboot instead of /srv/tftp" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84615
[11:27] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84616 in Ubuntu "Low Audio Volume/other audio problems with Lenovo 3000 C200" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84616
[11:35] <crimsun> sigh.
[11:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84620 in tipptrainer (universe) "Tipptrainer crashs on using lecture" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84620
[11:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84621 in gnomesword (universe) "[Edgy]  gnomesword dependency problem - libsword5c2a" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84621
[11:42] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84617 in ubiquity (main) "FAT drive scanned at boot, triples startup time" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84617
[11:42] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84618 in linux-source-2.6.15 (main) "kernel oops" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84618
[11:42] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84622 in k3b (main) "k3b is unable to burn DVDs on an external drive" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84622
[11:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84623 in Ubuntu "beryl crashes when you try to add a second desk" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84623
[11:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84624 in Ubuntu "nforce405 onboard audio driver problems" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84624
[11:46] <pochu> !info beryl feisty
[11:46] <ubotu> Package beryl does not exist in feisty
[11:47] <pochu> !info beryl-core feisty
[11:47] <ubotu> Package beryl-core does not exist in feisty
[11:47] <crimsun> I've already rejected it.
[11:47] <pochu> hey crimsun :)
[11:47] <pochu> crimsun: how do you go with the mozilla team?
[11:49] <crimsun> pochu: sorry, I don't know what you mean
[11:50] <pochu> crimsun: you are a mozillateam member, right?
[11:50] <pochu> crimsun: how is the bug triaging going, the organization... :)
[11:51] <crimsun> pochu: feel free to check in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[11:51] <crimsun> per usual, lots of bugs
[11:51] <pochu> yep, I see here...
[11:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84625 in hotkey-setup (main) "A few hotkeys not working Lenovo 3000 C200" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84625


[01:25] <cody-somerville> jelmer, Hey.
[01:25] <jelmer> hey Cody, how's your evening?
[01:26] <cody-somerville> jelmer, Not too shabby. Yours?
[01:26] <jelmer> Pretty good too - fixing samba bugs :)
[01:26] <cody-somerville> :)
[01:30] <cody-somerville> jelmer, Quick question (IIRC, you're on the bzr team now - right?). I was giving a quick tutorial to a new hire on the OEM Services team the other day. Got him to install bzr on his recently installed Ubuntu 10.10 system. When I got him to run bzr launchpad-login he got this error: Unable to copy ownership from '/home/jagosta' to '/home/jagosta/.bazaar': IOError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: '/home/jagosta/.bazaar'. I see LP #657
[01:30] <cody-somerville> 553 and LP #661678 regarding the same/similar error. Are there any consequence to this failure? Its also weird that such an error occurs on his nearly fresh install so I'm wondering if there is another issue at play.
[01:31] <cody-somerville> It was the first bzr command he ran fyi
[01:31] <jelmer> cody-somerville: It's indeed weird that this sort of thing happens on a fresh install
[01:32] <jelmer> cody-somerville: are the permissions on his home directory reasonable?
[01:33] <cody-somerville> jelmer, I asked if he changed them and he said no.
[01:33] <jelmer> cody-somerville: hmm, did he perhaps install etckeeper or something else that runs bzr under sudo ?
[01:33] <cody-somerville> jelmer, Impossible. I got him to install bzr so it was the first time bzr was run on the system.
[01:34] <jelmer> cody-somerville: well, etckeeper is just another package - it will invoke bzr by itself
[01:34] <cody-somerville> jelmer, It depends on bzr
[01:34] <cody-somerville> jelmer, Installing etckeeper requires installation of bzr.
[01:34] <jelmer> cody-somerville: right, that's what I mean
[01:35] <jelmer> cody-somerville: I'm wondering if perhaps he installed etckeeper before he ran bzr as a regular user - etckeeper invokes bzr but with the wrong home dir set somehow and triggers the creation of ~/.bazaar as root.
[01:36] <cody-somerville> (or another vcs to be accurate but I doubt he had installed another vcs). No. I was on the phone with him while he installed bzr.
[01:36] <jelmer> cody-somerville: so ~/.bazaar exists - what are the permissions of that directory?
[01:38] <cody-somerville> jelmer, I'm not sure. Didn't investigate much as we had quite a bit to talk about on the call and saw the other bug reports and see it was non-fatal.
[01:38]  * cody-somerville can get further details on Monday.
[01:39] <jelmer> cody-somerville: that'd be great
[01:39] <cody-somerville> jelmer, He said it also printed out 'No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"' before the error about chown.
[01:41] <jelmer> cody-somerville: Ah, that's useful info. That happens (among other situations) if bzr can't open ~/.bzr.log
[01:42] <jelmer> so it sounds like his home directory had weird permissions somehow, that would be good to double check.
[02:57] <leo2007> hello, I am behind unstable connection. Is there a way to resume cloning a branch?
[02:57] <leo2007> The connection is also no fast.
[03:26] <cody-somerville> leo2007, You could try incrementally fetching sets of revisions manually.
[03:27] <cody-somerville> leo2007, ie. create a checkout of revision 1 then update another n set of revisions over and over until you get to the latest revision.
[03:31] <leo2007> cody-somerville: thanks. I am new to bzr. I want to commit to https://savannah.gnu.org/bzr/?group=emacs
[03:31] <leo2007> I have heard that the initial is about 2G.
[03:31] <leo2007> 'initial checkout'
[03:32] <cody-somerville> leo2007, ah. They let you use rsync to fetch it
[03:33] <leo2007> that's faster is it?
[03:36] <cody-somerville> leo2007, lt handles resuming well. Should help you create initial checkout faster yes if you have connection issues.
[20:28] <lvh> Hi!
[20:28] <lvh> Is there something that supports Bazaar that does something similar to merge proposals but isn't Launchpad?
[20:44] <lifeless> lvh: reitvald I think
[21:02] <lvh> lifeless: rietveld does code review, which I suppose isn't completely unrelated, but...
[21:02] <lvh> Hm.
[21:03] <lifeless> lvh: merge proposals are all about review
[21:05] <lvh> Right: that expression was somewhat unfortunate
[21:07] <lvh> They're a particular way of doing code review that makes it easy to review code when it matters (ie when it reaches trunk)
[21:09] <lvh> I suppose the largest difference is that most external code review tools are, unlike Launchpad and Github, typically not aware of new commits after initial reviews
[21:12] <lifeless> goes with the territory
[21:12] <lvh> Yeah :-(
[21:13] <lifeless> do you need something private? or inhouse? or <...>?
[21:14] <lvh> In-hopuse.
[21:14] <lvh> house, too.
[21:15] <lvh> Helping someone else pick something: if it were up to me I'd just use Launchpad already.
[21:15] <lvh> (Or github -- but they like git for some reason.)
[21:25] <lvh> (On a similar note: why is bug tracking still such a pain?)
[21:28] <lifeless> its hard ;)
[21:29] <lvh> that's what we said about version control before bzr
[21:30] <lifeless> A:0
[21:30] <lifeless> bah
[21:30] <lifeless> :)