[22:17] <Whiz2> is perl needed if I'm not a programmer?
[22:18] <gregge> haha.. Anyways, I love you guys for being so helpful!
[22:18] <needhelp> To see which ubuntu version I have, is that System -> About Ubuntu ?
[22:18] <linuxfce> ooops, i meant killall flashcam lol
[22:18] <qr> Whiz2: yes, a lot of programs are written in perl.
[22:18] <qr> Whiz2: and you need perl to run them
[22:18] <bobertdos> Brucevdk: The only way to truly do what you're asking that I can think of would be to take away ownership of their own accounts, which would likely cause sizable problems.
[22:18] <Trader_T> is there a way I can defrag like in Windows?
[22:18] <Brucevdk> bobertdos: I'm thinking about simply setting the minimum password length to 60, achieves the same result.
[22:18] <The_ManU_212> qr ok so if i understand correctly, i can change in the bashrc directly and have to load it with source or i export it and it writes to the rc instead of myself right?
[22:18] <arrrghhh> jesus has quit! nooooo!
[22:18] <Brucevdk> bobertdos: have to dive into PAM first though heh
[22:18] <Whiz2> jpds: removing some of those libraries will remove perl dependant libs from my system. Are you sure you want to recommend the removal of lingtk libs from my system?
[22:19] <Whiz2> libgtk*
[22:19] <gregge> djhash and arrrghhh: I hope you saw my thanks for the help!
[22:19] <jpds> Whiz2: If the purekde page says it...
[22:19] <bobertdos> Trader_T: Defragging does not really exist with Unix file systems.
[22:19] <qr> The_ManU_212: no, export does not write to .bashrc, but yes, you can edit .bashrc and load it with the source command.
[22:19] <favro> Trader_T: you don't need to - the system looks after that itself during boot
[22:19] <cedric30> Hello,
[22:19] <arrrghhh> gregge, no problem, hope you got it workin
[22:19] <\sia\> !hardy
[22:19] <gregge> arrrghhh: yeah that's what I did :)
[22:19] <The_ManU_212> qr so export is only temp, and for permanent use i have to edit .bashrc, but where the file is huge
[22:19] <\sia\> !tell Arastein about hardy
[22:20] <captainm> Trader_T: you don't need to defrag
[22:20] <Trader_T> oh, so how can I discover why the system keeps hanging? Especially when using browsers (opera / firefox)
[22:20] <Gnea> !defrag | Trader_T
[22:20] <needhelp> hellcattrav: aplay -l, not aplay -i
[22:20] <arrrghhh> gregge, guten
[22:20] <dVs> i used "Simple Backup" to back up my ubuntu instalation ... can I reinstall it on a different size partition ?
[22:20] <Gnea> Trader_T: open a terminal and watch the system logs:  tail -f /var/log/syslog
[22:20] <hellcattrav> GRR
[22:20] <cedric30> I have connected my PDA with synce using synce-kpm I can access to my directory direclty using nautilus but I wanted to include some POI for my GPS
[22:20] <hellcattrav> yer saw that
[22:21] <linuxfce> OK here's the problem. Basically I want it to be so that when I close one program, another program is killed. && killall flashcam doesn't work because flashcam is still running, and flashcam is what was used to launch the other program.
[22:21] <qr> The_ManU_212: you need to export from within bashrc to make it "permanent" it's not really permanant per-se, but .bashrc is read every time bash starts... and you can edit it anywhere you want. The top is a good choice. Look around and see if PS1 is getting set anywhere in it already and edit it there.
[22:21] <hellcattrav> invalid option l
[22:21] <cedric30> I use destinator 6 and I see I need to install destnator console ... is it possible on Ubuntu?
[22:21] <linuxfce> So the idea would be, if there were a way to have bash kill any specified program, during any other specified programs exit.
[22:21] <The_ManU_212> qr ok, i exported the string you gave me and it works but is not fat
[22:21] <The_ManU_212> only lightblue
[22:22] <carthik> dVs that is hard to say, depends on how you did things etc
[22:22] <needhelp> hellcattrav: aplay -i or aplay -l (l for luke) ?
[22:22] <[eXception]> cant me burn a dvd with live-cd ?
[22:22] <needhelp> how do I check which ubuntu version I have ?
[22:22] <dVs> what would be the easiest way for me to take the system i have installed (with all the changes i have made) and put it on another system or partition ?
[22:22] <carthik> dVs, should not stop you from having fun - backup all user data in /home, all settings in /etc on a separate drive and have fun learning new thing :0)
[22:22] <linuxfce> Example. Would there be a way to make it so when closing firefox, xchat would also close with it?
[22:22] <qr> The_ManU_212: the \e[1;36m part is the code for bold blue, you'll have to google for terminal color codes if it's not working for you.
[22:23] <captainm> needhelp: cat /etc/issue
[22:23] <dVs> carthik i cant .. if i reinstall this laptop again my wife is going to kill me :)
[22:23] <carthik> dVs, if the new partition is bigger or the same size, you can "image" the existing install (but not when the system is booted and using the installation)
[22:23] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, i mean you could write a script that checks whether or not firefox is running... ugh just thinking about how the script would work is ugly at best.
[22:24] <carthik> dVs so its a laptop, gets even more interesting. To really know how to help you, its necessary to know what exactly you are upto :|
[22:24] <The_ManU_212> qr its coulered
[22:24] <qr> The_ManU_212: awesome
[22:24] <dVs> carthik yeah I thought of that but was thinking there might just be a way to get the actually instalation .. not the whole partition
[22:24] <Gnea> dVs: clonezilla
[22:24] <Trader_T> i typed "top" into terminal, it says nautilus is using memory - is that normal?
[22:24] <tonak> hello, when i create a file it is automaticaly set to -rw-r--r--, how to change this behavior? i want it to be -rw-rw-r-- automaticaly. (every user of the group should have the right to change the files) how to automate this?
[22:24] <dVs> can I PM you ?
[22:24] <carthik> needhelp /etc/lsb_release has that info in it, so type cat /etc/lsb_release at the command line
[22:25] <Gnea> dVs: it's not an ubuntu software, but it is based on debian, it allows you to backup whole partitions or drives
[22:25] <linuxfce> arrrghhh i just want to make it so when closing one program, another program is killed
[22:25] <dVs> ok i will look into it
[22:25] <qr> Trader_T: yes, every program you run will use at least some memory.
[22:25] <needhelp> carthik | captain: thanks
[22:25] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, why?
[22:25] <Whiz2> jpds: Sorry removing perl GTK libs also removes the bum pkg which I actively use, so gtk+2 libs for perl stay
[22:25] <qr> linuxfce: what's wrong with program1 && killall program2 exactly?
[22:26] <spetsnaz> how can i install the KDE graphic interface, and delete the GNOME desktop enviroment?
[22:26] <arrrghhh> spetsnaz, hold on i have a link
[22:26] <linuxfce> arrrghhh, long story short. Gyachi does not support my webcam, so i am using flashcam and vloopback to forward frames to another video device location
[22:26] <arrrghhh> spetsnaz, first install kubuntu-desktop
[22:26] <Trader_T> qr: of course. But what I meant is it's using alot of memory, along with  compiz.real, and I don't know what these processes are.
[22:26] <The_ManU_212> qr but not fat...so i have to search
[22:26] <spetsnaz> thanks arrrghhh
[22:26] <qr> The_ManU_212: yes, gl
[22:26] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, eek not my expertise at all lol sorry
[22:27] <spetsnaz> and what must i do after kubuntu-desktop isntall?
[22:27] <linuxfce> i have a script that beings flashcam frame forwarding to /dev/video2 and wraps gyachi to flash cam.
[22:27] <linuxfce> but when i exit gyachi, flashcam is still forwarding frames
[22:27] <qr> Trader_T: compiz stuff is the desktop effects, that's going to use a lot of memory no matter how you slice it.  Nautilus, I don't know why it would use a _lot_ of memory. nautilus is your file browser.
[22:27] <[eXception]> im am working with live cd and i want to burn a cd is that not possible with the same drive?
[22:27] <linuxfce> qr let me try that
[22:28] <captainm> [eXception]: nope
[22:28] <Trader_T> qr, why is nautilus always running?
[22:28] <[eXception]> knoppix can do that right?
[22:28] <linuxfce> qr should that be part of my program1 launching script, or a separate script all together?
[22:28] <Whiz2> which still brings me to my opriginal question. Can I safely remove GNOME specifics on a KDE system such as gconf2?
[22:28] <captainm> Trader_T: For the icons on your desktop
[22:28] <spetsnaz> can i use in syncron the KDE and the GNOME?
[22:28] <captainm> It's just a folder
[22:28] <The_ManU_212> qr thx for your help
[22:28] <jokoon> hello
[22:29] <arrrghhh> spetsnaz, http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde
[22:29] <Trader_T> ok, thanks all for your help
[22:29] <qoncept> can i mount a single directory from a drive or do i have to make it a seperate partition?
[22:29] <qr> linuxfce: depends how you have your scripts set up,  program1launchscript && killall ... is probably a good bet though
[22:29] <arrrghhh> spetsnaz, now in the future if you install with aptitude, you can just use aptitude to remove kubuntu-desktop and it'll get everything instead of removing ALL those packages.
[22:29] <qr> linuxfce: just make sure that the launch script always finishes successfully or the killall won't be run.  If you can't gaurentee this use a ; instead of &&
[22:29] <favro> linuxfce: make a shortcut on the desktop and for a command use - killall gyachi && killall flashcam
[22:30] <spetsnaz> okay arrghh thanks a help a lot!
[22:30] <spetsnaz> ;)
[22:30] <jokoon> I downloaded the skyke for ubuntu deb file, I know its not supported by ubuntu, but its says wrong architecture, is there any 64 version of skype for linux ?
[22:30] <The_ManU_212> qr can i query you to show you some lines, unfortanetly more then 3, would be faster then a pastebin (part of bashrc)
[22:30] <needhelp> qoncept: find a unix-equivalent for the DOS command JOIN, then mount it
[22:30] <alcane_> using heron, can't display over 800x600 and the xorg isn't like it used to be
[22:30] <qr> The_ManU_212: ok
[22:31] <mEDEc> hey, how do i mount an ntfs drive from the terminal?
[22:31] <alcane_> as in, it's unfamiliar to me
[22:31] <tyg13> I have a question, is there a real difference between KDE and GNOME or is it a purely visual difference?
[22:31] <qr> tyg13: the difference is fundimental
[22:31] <mEDEc> when i try "sudo mount /etc/sdc /mnt/sdc" it asks me to specify filesystem type
[22:31] <arrrghhh> mEDEc, "sudo mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/xxx /media/mnt" - make sure /media/mnt exists.
[22:31] <qoncept> mEDEc, sudo mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdc1 /media/usb1
[22:31] <arrrghhh> lol
[22:31] <tyg13> qr: how so?
[22:31] <qr> tyg13: as in they are completely different projects which use completely different code bases
[22:31] <mEDEc> arrrghhh, qoncept -- ok thanks :)
[22:32] <arrrghhh> np
[22:32] <arrrghhh> how often do nerds agree on how to do something?  haha.
[22:32] <captainm> arrrghhh: NEVER!!
[22:32] <rr> medec download qonqueror
[22:33] <tyg13> qr: I currently use GNOME, I'm only curious as if there is a difference other than visual and their respective code bases
[22:33] <djhash> lol.. thats why we have a gazillion different linux distros..
[22:33] <qoncept> how can i find out if my network connection is gigabit or 100bt?
[22:33] <arrrghhh> captainm, seriously, and our responses were like identical
[22:33] <tyg13> qr: if I were to switch to KDE would there be a huge difference from GNOME?
[22:33] <qr> tyg13: do you mean from a user perspective?
[22:34] <tyg13> qr: Yes
[22:34] <arrrghhh> tyg13, uh... yea
[22:34] <Gillpy> !ping
 I like KDE better than Gnome
[22:34] <captainm> tyg13: You'll use different applications and everything will be in a different place etc. etc.
[22:34] <arrrghhh> they're completely different window managers
[22:34] <qr> tyg13: they wouldn't be different projects if they were the same for end users :\
[22:34] <captainm> tyg13: but the basics are the same, same file system and such
[22:34] <tyg13> ahh
[22:34] <arrrghhh> tyg13, it's all personal preference.  some ppl like gnome, kde, enlightment, flux, holy crap there's a ton of WM's to choose from.
[22:34] <rr> kde is more desktop
[22:34] <qr> captainm: file systems have nothing to do with window managers...
[22:35] <n3hima> how can I discover what smb hosts/workgroups there are on a particular network from the cli?
[22:35] <captainm> qr: that's what I'm trying to tell him ;)
[22:35] <qr> captainm: ahh, ok. carry on then.
[22:35] <arrrghhh> n3hima, i don't think you can *discover* them.  but you can configure samba from the cli.
[22:35] <tyg13> how can i switch from GNOME to KDE?
[22:36] <qr> tyg13: sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[22:36] <djhash> arrrghhh: dont forget looking glass
[22:36] <arrrghhh> tyg13, aptitude install kubuntu-desktop
[22:36] <kapace> how do i make a shortcut to a folder?
[22:36] <arrrghhh> djhash, oh i already forgot it.
[22:36] <djhash> lol
[22:36] <tyg13> will it give me the option to switch to kde or will I manually have to do that?
[22:36] <qr> tyg13: then log out and in the lower left corner of your login screen there's a menu with an option to change sessions, change it to KDE and log back in
[22:36] <alakayonk> hello
[22:36] <arrrghhh> tyg13, sessions like qr said
[22:36] <tyg13> ahh
[22:37] <linuxfce> qr i know this is just misinterpretation, what i did caused gyachi to start on exit lol. here is my pastebin of the script http://paste.ubuntu.com/39527/
[22:37] <qr> linuxfce: you have to tell killall what to kill...
[22:37] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, that's because you're running it and not killing it....
[22:37] <tyg13> Wow...
[22:38] <tyg13> this might take a while to install
[22:38] <tyg13> 134 MB of archives
[22:38] <qr> tyg13: indeed, kde is quite large
[22:38] <arrrghhh> tyg13, yes there are a lot of differenet packages.  kde uses QT and gnome uses GTK - different platforms.
[22:38] <qr> tyg13: gnome is of comprable size
[22:38] <tyg13> I thought they were about 600 MB
[22:38] <djhash> tyg13: plus you're getting plenty of games with kde :-D
[22:38] <arrrghhh> tyg13, that's the whole os, kernel & all.
[22:38] <The_ManU_212> qr for what is the code 9?
[22:38] <tyg13> ohhhh
[22:38] <arrrghhh> compressed onto a cd that is...
[22:39] <qr> The_ManU_212: 0;9 is the code for "normal"
[22:39] <Jordan_U> n3hima: findsmb
[22:39] <qr> The_ManU_212: where normal is whatever your terminal thinks normal is
[22:39] <The_ManU_212> qr but is 0 not the same?
[22:39] <arrrghhh> maynards-girl, i need maynard's new side project, can you hook it up?
[22:39] <tyg13> I think I'll refrain from installing KDE for a little bit :)
[22:39] <ZsigE> hi all! Anyone here had problems before with really weird graphics behaviour when trying to boot from an Ubuntu Live CD?
[22:39] <linuxfce> qr and arrrghhh this script does not work http://paste.ubuntu.com/39529/
[22:40] <qr> The_ManU_212: no, 0 is a specific color, although 99% of the time your terminal thinks that normal == 0
[22:40] <djhash> !anyone
[22:40] <The_ManU_212> qr ok
[22:40] <khakane> i rebooted Hardy sometime after a kernel upgrade came in, now when i boot i get to runlevel unknown with / mounted read only...
[22:40] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, put lines 4 & 5 on one line
[22:41] <khakane> anyone able to shed some light on that?
[22:41]  * alcane_ NEEDS HELP WITH HARDY HERON XORG
[22:41] <alakayonk> Any one know why i would be getting the error "The user `cupsys' does not exist." when i type this "sudo adduser cupsys shadow"
[22:41]  * alcane_ NEEDS HELP WITH HARDY HERON XORG
[22:41] <The_ManU_212> is the sapce after the last m adn before ' neccesary?
[22:41] <qr> alcane_: stop wining and ask your question
[22:41] <alakayonk> Im trying to install linksys printserver and hplaserjet 4Pluss
[22:41] <djhash> !repeat | alcane_
[22:41] <The_ManU_212> *space
[22:41] <The_ManU_212> @ qr
[22:41] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, although that script doesn't make a whole lotta sense.  i'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with that script.
[22:41] <djhash> !ask | alcane_
[22:41] <servinax> Hello :D
[22:41] <qr> The_ManU_212: no, but it generally looks nicer to have a space between the last letter of your prompt and the first letter of your command line
[22:41] <dslfkjli2> hello
[22:42] <arrrghhh> alakayonk, sounds like the user cupsys doesn't exist...
[22:42] <corvusalbus> hello
[22:42] <linuxfce> ok putting lines 4 and 5 into one line worked perfectly
[22:42] <alcane_> ubottu: vid: Mach64 CT, can't display over 800x600, xorg isn't like old versions
[22:42] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, i'm an allstar
[22:42] <corvusalbus> i have installed ubuntu 8 and have a problem with sambashares and windows ce ... can someone help me?
[22:42] <arrrghhh> lmao that's an awesome response ubottu
[22:42] <alakayonk> I understand that however im unable to set up my printer and from the looks of http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=290171
[22:43] <alakayonk> i should be able to
[22:43] <Jordan_U> linuxfce: Note that if the first command fails ( returns non zero exit status ) the second will not be run, is that really what you want?
[22:43] <djhash> linuxfce: && means: if the previous command runs succesfully then run the next command..  just fyi...
[22:43] <The_ManU_212> qr i see, youre right
[22:43] <ZsigE> Right, sorry, didn't know not to ask to ask. If that makes sense. So I tried to boot from the CD, got through the loading screen, and then the whole screen went eye-bleedingly bright green and stretched itself out so far horizontally that the mouse pointer was a little blur in the middle. Not what you might call "usable".
[22:43] <corvusalbus> (dstestalakayonk)test: u think u can help me?
[22:43]  * khakane sighs
[22:43] <linuxfce> arrrghhh the script starts flashcam and forwards frames to /dev/video2. then gyache can load those frames into its webcam broadcaster (gyache does not support v4l2, this makes it work)
[22:43] <linuxfce> Jordan_U why would it not return zero exit status?
[22:43] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, if you say so :
[22:44] <linuxfce> arrrghhh if i say so? do you have a better idea?
[22:44] <linuxfce> the only other way wouldbe to run all those commands manually
[22:44] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, no, as i stated before the whole video cam thing is not my forte.
[22:44] <corvusalbus> i have installed ubuntu 8 and have a problem with sambashares and windows ce ... can someone help me?
[22:44] <captainm> !ask | corvusalbus
[22:45] <linuxfce> djhash thanks for that
[22:45] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, that's interesting... never heard of that before.  have you tried installing with the alternate CD?
[22:45] <Jordan_U> linuxfce: I don't know what the program does, but generally if for any reason it could not do what it was supposed to, if it crashed, couldn't find a file, etc
[22:45] <djhash> linuxfce: if flashcamwrap crashes before it exits.. it'll exit with an error that is not 0..
[22:45] <corvusalbus> !ask i have installed ubuntu 8 and have a problem with sambashares and windows ce ... can someone help me?
[22:45] <khakane> Hardy upgraded to 2.6.24-19-server from 2.6.24-16-server and boots up with a read-only / and runlevel of 'unknown'.  is there anyway to repair this?
[22:45] <maynards-girl> arrrghhh, sri, can't help ya there
[22:46] <The_ManU_212> qr and can i set a prompt when i work as sudo or have sudo rights?
[22:46] <captainm> corvusalbus: We can try if you explain what the problem is
[22:46] <arrrghhh> maynards-girl, c'mon hook it up!
[22:46] <arrrghhh> ur his girlfriend right? :P
[22:46] <maynards-girl>  i dont know
[22:46] <maynards-girl> i'd lke to be
[22:46] <Jordan_U> khakane: Can you successfully boot into the previous kernel?
[22:46] <maynards-girl> :)
[22:46] <arrrghhh> lol jk.  sorry for the offtopic
[22:46] <linuxfce> Jordan_U and djhash yeah thats true, in which case i'll just run killall flashcam manually, unless of course you have an idea for the && line to run with any return status
[22:46] <khakane> Jordan_U: not too sure, its remote, would have to have them console it
[22:47] <corvusalbus> i have installed ubuntu 8 and have a problem with my sambashares ... from windows xp i can use the shares but from windows ce i get the error that username or password is false
[22:47] <ZsigE> arrrghhh: no, I haven't got any blank CDs around unfortunately (the Live CD is a 6.1 disk that I got ages ago, I was planning on upgrading from it once it was installed). I think it's the graphics card's fault, as it hung when trying to boot into Puppy Linux too
[22:47] <khakane> Jordan_U: can i remount my /boot read-write so i can change menu.lst to force it in there?
[22:47] <Jordan_U> linuxfce: Just put it on another line like the other commands
[22:47] <needhelp> what could be the cause when trying to upgrade Ubuntu from 7.04 to 7.10 that the "Preparing the upgrade"-phase hangs on fetching file 53 of 58 forever.... ?
[22:47] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, well get a flash drive or a dvd-rw or something cuz i would not recommend installing 6.1...
[22:47] <khakane> Jordan_U: actually my /boot is on / so is there a way to force a remount of / read-write accessible?
[22:47] <djhash> linuxfce: just put a , between them instead of && or on another line completely removing &&.
[22:47] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, heck if you don't mind waiting canocial will send you a free 8.04.1 disc.
[22:48] <arrrghhh> needhelp, sounds like it timed out on that mirror...
[22:48] <Jordan_U> khakane: Depends on why it is mounted read only in the first place, you don't need to edit your menu.list though, just hit escape when you see "GRUB" at boot and it will give you a menu
[22:48] <needhelp> arrrghhh: ideas how to fix it? I need to upgrade from 7.04
[22:48] <arrrghhh> needhelp, well you could change your repo's
[22:48] <khakane> Jordan_U: i will repeat what i said, the server is remote
[22:49] <ZsigE> arrrghhh: Yeah, after this weekend I can get some more CDs up here easily enough. Just wondered if screwed-up graphics was a common enough problem that someone could go "ah yeah, just do such-and-such"
[22:49] <khakane> i cant stand in front of it when its 3000 miles away ;)
[22:49] <linuxfce> as i suspected, flashcam starts and quits on gyachi start with &,&
[22:49] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, lol on 6.10 not many people are going to be willing to help unfortunately :P
[22:49] <arrrghhh> khakane, c'mon grow a little
[22:49] <Jordan_U> khakane: Ahh, :)
[22:49] <ZsigE> really? Is it that bad? It seemed to run OK on my old laptop
[22:49] <qr> ZsigE: it's just old...
[22:50] <ZsigE> (althoughwe do not talk about the wireless)
[22:50] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, it's just outdated.
[22:50] <arrrghhh> qr, get outta my freakin head
[22:50] <linuxfce> i need something similar to &&, but one that runs on return x (x for any numeric value)
[22:50] <mralexandro> i have a dell xps m1330 and i have installed ubuntu hardy heron 8.04.. however i do not know how to mount external usb harddisk or memory stick. can anyone please explain to me
[22:50] <needhelp> arrrghhh: could you give me the filename and lines to add/remove ?
[22:50] <qr> linuxfce: you want ;
[22:50] <linuxfce> ok thanks qr
[22:50] <arrrghhh> needhelp, you can change your repo's in synaptic
[22:50] <Jordan_U> khakane: So are you accessing it via ssh? How exactly are you interacting with it?
[22:50] <khakane> ssh
[22:50] <djhash> linuxfce: use the , without the &&..
[22:50] <arrrghhh> needhelp, i'm at work right now so i can't exactly walk u thru the process.
[22:50] <khakane> networking starts oddly enough
[22:51] <djhash> or just put the command in the next line
[22:51] <The_ManU_212> qr now fat works, with the one, 1;36 means cyan, without 36 the fat option works
[22:51] <linuxfce> ok that worked thanks qr
[22:51] <needhelp> arrrghhh: in Synaptic, everything under the Package-menu is grayed out/disabled
[22:51] <needhelp> ok...
[22:51] <khakane> Jordan_U: i just remounted it read/write, changed the default in menu.lst
[22:51] <khakane> now i just hope it reboots ok
[22:51] <ZsigE> OK, I'll hang on until I can burn a Hardy CD and see if that copes with it better. Thanks anyway...
[22:51] <qr> The_ManU_212: ahh, my mistake then. Glad you got it working
[22:51] <Jordan_U> needhelp: Can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list?
[22:52] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, sorry.  i got into ubuntu in 7.04 i never even used 6.1 haha
[22:52] <The_ManU_212> qr thx u
[22:52] <khakane> i dont think it rebooted ok
[22:52] <arrrghhh> ZsigE, that and they've changed a lot (unbreakable X, etc) with hardy
[22:52] <needhelp> Jordan_U: if you promise not to hack me! :P
[22:52] <needhelp> Jordan_U: http://paste.ubuntu.com/39533/
[22:53] <involved> hello. can I switch from one GNU Screen session to another (not windows, sessions) without having to detach1 and attach other?
[22:53] <linuxfce> thanks djhash, arrrghhh, and favro. for the extensive help. and thanks for not getting on my case for not rtfm, i will need to rtfm on shell scripting soon
[22:53] <arrrghhh> linuxfce, definitely the best way to know what you're doin :P
[22:53] <qr> involved: you can attach to a screen inside of a screen with a bit of creativity, but I don't think there's a way to swap sessions.
[22:53] <needhelp> involved: ctrl-alt-f#
[22:54] <Jordan_U> needhelp: Ok, in System -> Administration -> Software Sources try switching to the main mirror
[22:54] <khakane> yea its stuck on reboot bleh
[22:54] <khakane> still pinging
[22:55] <involved> qr: thanks
[22:55] <needhelp> Jordan_U: the "Download from" ?
[22:55] <Jordan_U> needhelp: Yes
[22:55] <xintron> I'm using fluxbox and can't get rhythmbox and my iPod to work. with the gnome-session there's no problem but rhythmbox don't find it using fluxbox. What gnome-services might I be missing? Someone said gnome-volume-manager but how do I start that?
[22:55] <qr_> involved: screen inside screen is generally not very friendly if you do decide to go that route though
[22:56] <involved> qr_: yeah.. i've read that already.. thanks
[22:56] <favro> xintron: start rythmbox-client from terminal and it will show what it can't find
[22:56]  * djhash off to dinner.. though.. not a wink of sleep for 24.. i might not be back till tomorrow.. till then.. noobies.. learn from the pros.. pros.. take it easy on the noobies.. rembmer.. frustrating over noobies methods will just bring you down to their level and then they'll beat you with experience.. no offence noobies.. for I am one of you..
[22:56] <Jordan_U> xintron: It may be as simple as your ipod needing to be mounted, in which case you can get an automounter for flux or mount it manually
[22:57] <favro> xintron: *rhythmbox-client
[22:57] <casao> Is there anything special I have to do to enable multitouch on my trackpad? It supports it because it has Windows drivers, the Synaptics module is loading and everything is set as it should be in the synaptics toubleshooting guide
[22:57] <xintron> Jordan_U: It's mounted (I can see it using natlius)
[22:57] <xintron> *nautilus
[22:57] <xintron> favro: (rhythmbox-client:9099): Rhythmbox-WARNING **: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-sBoWLzEbGK: Connection refused
[22:58] <danhs> have you guys had good experience with autodeb?  or checkinstall?  or (I guess less important) autoapt?
[22:58] <emyller> hi there
[22:59] <danhs> realizing that I sometimes need to compile from source and I'd like to be able to roll it back if necessary....
[22:59] <emyller> how do i change cursors here?
[22:59] <KiDFlaSh> sudo halt
[22:59] <KiDFlaSh> in terminal
[22:59] <danhs> trying to figure out the best tool for this
[23:00] <Jordan_U> KiDFlaSh: Still not able to access the server after reboot?
[23:00] <danhs> KiDFlaSh: I usually use shutdown or reboot
[23:00] <danhs> KiDFlaSh: actaully surprising how many "turn off the computer" methods there are
[23:00] <Build-A-Bear> is there a fix for these nvidia 6150s breaking ttys?
[23:00] <emyller> ¬¬
[23:00] <Build-A-Bear> and my screen never comes back either from a blanking on my lappy!
[23:01] <needhelp> Jordan_U: I changed it, it started to download, then failed with this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/39535/
[23:01] <emyller> how do i change my cursors? =\
[23:02] <favro> xintron: I don't know what to do with that... - sorry :)
[23:02] <KiDFlaSh> emyller,  did you tried google?
[23:02] <emyller> yeah
[23:02] <xintron> favro: weird, it's working when using "sudu rhythmbox" :/
[23:03] <emyller> i saw that i can put cursors at ~/.icons
[23:03] <thesaint4444> what is the bash unix to copy all the contents of one directory including sub dirs into another dir? thanks.
[23:03] <Jordan_U> needhelp: Try disabling any third party repos in System -> Administration -> Software Sources
[23:03] <emyller> and now, how to apply them without needing to restart my session?
[23:03] <khakane> thesaint4444: man cp
[23:03] <shwan> thesaint4444: cp -r
[23:03] <favro> xintron: how are you starting fluxbox?
[23:03] <gr3y5t0ne> hi
[23:03] <tgm4883_laptop> Looking for someone to play cron job hero with, since every cron job I have tried to make fails for apparently no reason
[23:03] <xintron> favro: startfluxbox
[23:04] <arrrghhh> !hi | gr3y5t0ne
[23:04] <thesaint4444> khakane: very helpfull.... thanks.
[23:04] <gr3y5t0ne> hi, sorry , but i have a problem
[23:04] <arrrghhh> tgm4883_laptop, are you running cron as root?  some cron jobs need root privileges to run,.
[23:04] <Jordan_U> tgm4883_laptop: Can you pastebin an example of one ( preferably the simplest ) that is not working?
[23:04] <tgm4883_laptop> arrrghhh, yes
[23:04] <khakane> thesaint4444: no problem!
[23:04] <tgm4883_laptop> Jordan_U, will do, just a sec
[23:04] <gr3y5t0ne> i stupidly installed xubuntu from the terminal onto my already installed ubuntu hardy
[23:04] <arrrghhh> tgm4883_laptop, and are you using crontab or just cron?
[23:04] <thesaint4444> khakane: lol...
[23:04] <emyller> then?
[23:05] <Flannel> gr3y5t0ne: nothing wrong with that
[23:05] <arrrghhh> gr3y5t0ne, i don't see why that's a problem
[23:05] <khakane> documentation is in place for a reason
[23:05] <gr3y5t0ne> then, i tried uninstalling it from the terminal
[23:05] <favro> xintron: you should have "exec startfluxbox" in the .xinitrc file and use startx to get to desktop afaik
[23:05] <gr3y5t0ne> and it said it uninstalled
[23:05] <khakane> thesaint4444: maybe learning to use it is more important than somone feeding you commands
[23:05] <Flannel> gr3y5t0ne: xubuntu-desktop is just a metapackage, are you looking to get back to pure ubuntu?
[23:05] <gr3y5t0ne> yes
[23:06] <kitche> gr3y5t0ne: have to uninstall xfce4 really to get rid of xubuntu desktop
[23:06] <Flannel> !puregnome | gr3y5t0ne
[23:06] <favro> xintron: it's what I do and flux works great :)
[23:06] <Flannel> gr3y5t0ne: That page has an easy copy/paste line to do it
[23:06] <gr3y5t0ne> ok thankd
[23:06] <gr3y5t0ne> *thanks
[23:06] <thesaint4444> khakane: thank you ohhh oracle of wisdom!
[23:06] <gr3y5t0ne> i will try it out :)
[23:06] <Firefishe> How does one add a password to a live cd session for added security?
[23:06] <khakane> thesaint4444: no problem oh lazy uneducated linux troll ;)
[23:06] <arrrghhh> thesaint4444, we appreciate it when people help themselves instead of demanding to be hand-fed commands.
[23:07] <arrrghhh> Firefishe, uh a livecd doesn't have a pass for a reason...
[23:07] <thesaint4444> khakane: someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning...
[23:07] <arrrghhh> Firefishe, i mean you could do it, but you'd lose it the second you shutdown or reboot
[23:07] <Firefishe> arrrghhh:  I'm using it in a public environment.  I want to secure the desktop environment if I have to step away from the 'puter for a moment.
[23:07] <khakane> thesaint4444: and someone obviously fell out of bed this morning and hit their head..
[23:07] <Jordan_U> Firefishe: What are you trying to accomplish exactly?
[23:08] <arrrghhh> Firefishe, use a persistent install on a flash drive
[23:08] <Firefishe> Jordan_U:  see above ^^
[23:08] <thesaint4444> khakane: never heard that one before... thanks.
[23:08] <khakane> not suprising
[23:08] <Odd-rationale> Firefishe: you can set a passord: sudo passwd ubuntu
[23:08] <khakane> Jordan_U: got it booted into old kernel.
[23:08] <Jordan_U> Firefishe: Note there is more than setting a password that is needed to secure the live session
[23:09] <Flannel> Odd-rationale, Firefishe: no need for sudo, you're setting your own password
[23:09] <tgm4883_laptop> Jordan_U, most call other scripts and add arguments.  This one I think may be the easiest  http://pastebin.com/m55ac8a92
[23:09] <Flannel> just "passwd" will work.
[23:09] <Odd-rationale> Flannel: well, if no sudo, then it asks for passwd
[23:09] <Odd-rationale> Flannel: sudo doesn't need a passwd on the live cd
[23:09] <tgm4883_laptop> The problem I see with most of my cron jobs, is that I can run them manually and they work, but when they run automatically, they fail at some point
[23:10] <Flannel> Odd-rationale: ... right.. but you just hit enter at the password prompt, and then set one
[23:10] <thesaint4444> khakane: sorry.. you are right it was a stupid question.
[23:10] <thesaint4444> khakane: typing before thinking, long day...
[23:10] <Odd-rationale> Flannel: if just passwd, then it asks for current passwd...
[23:10] <Flannel> Odd-rationale: right, and you hit enter.
[23:10] <Firefishe> Jordan_U:  Sorry, got called away.  What is involved in securing the live cd session>?
[23:11] <Jordan_U> tgm4883_laptop: Two probable causes, one you may be assuming that /bin/sh == bash, which it doesn't or two there may be environment variables that need to be set for what you are doing to work
[23:11] <Flannel> Firefishe: What are you hoping to secure?
[23:11] <FlamingHairball> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 on a Mac Mini. I need to partition my ubuntu frive as FAT right?
[23:11] <Odd-rationale> Flannel: hmm. i'll have to try that next time... :P
[23:11] <Flannel> FlamingHairball: no, ext3
[23:11] <MXIIA> How do I edit my Places -> Bookmarks ?
[23:11] <Crshman> hi all, how do i download the sourcecode for my kernel version?
[23:12] <arrrghhh> FlamingHairball, FAT is a old microsoft file system
[23:12] <Flannel> !kernel | Crshman
[23:12] <Odd-rationale> Flannel: but i don't recall that working last time...
[23:12] <Theaxiom> What is a good program for alerting me of new email via the system try?
[23:12] <Theaxiom> tray*
[23:12] <Firefishe> Flannel:  Here's my situation:  This is on a laptop.  My h/d is toast so I'm using the live cd with a usb drive for saving files.  This system works for what I'm wanting to achieve.  I just want a way to secure the desktop when I have to, say, hit the rest room or something.
[23:12] <FlamingHairball> arrrghhh: So I don't need to worry about pertitioning in OS X do I?
[23:12] <Flannel> Odd-rationale: theres no password for (the user|sudo) on the liveCD, you just said that.  passwd asks for your password:)
[23:12] <dVs> whats the easiest way to copy this installation onto different hardware ?
[23:12] <arrrghhh> FlamingHairball, not sure how to answer that question...
[23:12] <FlamingHairball> *partitioning
[23:13] <Firefishe> Flannel:  I try to lock the desktop, but as soon as I hit a key or touch the touchpad, the desktop, unsecured, comes right back up.
[23:13] <MXIIA> How do I edit my Places -> Bookmarks ?
[23:13] <erUSUL> dVs: clone the hard drive or partitions. use clonezilla or partimage
[23:13] <Flannel> Firefishe: alright, then yeah, set a password, and lock the screen when you go AFK.  Although, be advised someone could just reboot the machine
[23:13] <s0|> Hi I am having an issues w/ installing vmware server 1.0.6 on Ubuntu 8.04, I keep getting an error about being unable to get the last modification timestamp of /etc/vmware/ssl/rui.key
[23:13] <Firefishe> Flannel:  True on the last part, but I'm not too worried about that part, I'm not usually gone for long.
[23:13] <dVs> erUSUL and putting it on different hardware wont matter ?
[23:13] <Firefishe> Thanks :)
[23:14] <Theaxiom> s0|: Try using virtualbox
[23:14] <Jordan_U> Firefishe: I am not sure entirely, it also depends on how smart the people you are giving it to are :) For one I think that user "ubuntu" is automatically logged in in tty1 if someone switches to it
[23:14] <erUSUL> dVs: we may have problemas with the xserver (graphics) bu the rest is ok
[23:14] <aldroid> I enabled XDMCP in GDM and now it listens on 177/udp, though it answers only when connecting from localhost. How do I make it available for my LAN?
[23:14] <erUSUL> dVs: to reconfigure x try 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg'
[23:14] <e7th04sh> i messed up with my gnome a bit, i used some theme managers and other additional stuff, and now i want to have once again clean gnome - how do i do it? will reinstall option in synaptic be enough
[23:14] <e7th04sh> ?
[23:14] <Firefishe> Jordan_U:  I see.
[23:14] <Odd-rationale> Firefishe: try setting the password with just "passwd" and tell us if that works...
[23:14] <Firefishe> Odd-rationale: k...1 sec
[23:15] <tyg13> I'm having trouble setting up virtualbox. I have a current windows partition of my drive, but I'm wondering if I need the XP CD to set it up.
[23:15] <s0|> Theaxiom, maybe, but I would like to see if I can get VMware server going again. I had it installed on 7.06 and vmserver 1.05 before I added a compeletly new disk subsystem.
[23:15] <dVs> so the only problem would be the display ? or monitor ?
[23:15] <arrrghhh> Firefishe, i suggested the persistent flash install so it is secure and you don't have to worry about people rebooting
[23:16] <dVs> what about like the swap partition ?
[23:16] <Whiz2> Jordan_U: Hey so you know, I've decided to wipe the server, and start over. it's going to take me a while to get it back to the way I need it, but it's better than sitting here struggling with it as is. Any suggestions on a light weight X desktop, or version of ubuntu? (X Desktop needs to be there)
[23:16] <dVs> ho wwill it know where to point at it ?
[23:16] <Flannel> Whiz2: Xubuntu?  Or install from the alternate CD without a GUI, and then add fluxbox or blackbox or ratpoison or whatever.
[23:16] <casao> Who knows about Synaptic touchpads in here - specifically multitouch
[23:16] <wols_> Whiz2: xubuntu
[23:17] <wols_> but servers don't have X
[23:17] <tyg13> I'm having trouble setting up virtualbox. I have a current windows partition of my drive, but I'm wondering if I need the XP CD to set it up.
[23:17] <carandraug> tyg13: you need a XP CD to install it in Virtualbox. I've heard it's a way to turn your installation but I don't know how
[23:17] <Whiz2> wols_: I need X because I use the GUI more than the command line
[23:17] <xyblor_> how do I run x programs from a virtual console? I try doing "DISPLAY=:0.0 xprop -root" and it says "can't open display" or "connection refused by server"
[23:17] <tyg13> Ahh
[23:17] <wols_> Whiz2: that's rubbish. doesn't mean you need X at all
[23:17] <Dedi> is there a tool to find the fastest rep mirror?
[23:17] <Firefishe> arrrghhh:  I do have a 2GB drive I've *tried* to install ubuntu 8.04 to.  I've followed the instructions on pendrivelinux.com religiou but I get an boot error upon booting.  Doesn't seem to want to find the image file.
[23:18] <tyg13> carandraug: Thank you. I'll go digging around for my XP CDs :)
[23:18] <Firefishe> religiously
[23:18] <Whiz2> wols_: X is the gui is it not?
[23:18] <wols_> no, X server is the "graphics driver"
[23:18] <carandraug> tyg13: I've jound an howto on howto do it how you want but it's in paper
[23:18] <Whiz2> wols_: then what is the X Desktop?
[23:18] <tyg13> I'll take it
[23:19] <wols_> an X client
[23:19] <MXIIA> How do I edit my Places -> Bookmarks ?
[23:19] <tyg13> carandraug: most of the tutorials I do is text
[23:19] <Odd-rationale> MXIIA: edit your nautilus bookmarks
[23:19] <Crshman> i'm trying to fix a bug for my laptop but i can't figure out how to apply the patch
[23:19] <Crshman> here is a link to the fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/139045/comments/30
[23:19] <carandraug> tyg13: it's in paper. An article from "Linux format"
[23:19] <Firefishe> Is there a channel specifically for usb drive install issues with ubuntu 8.04?
[23:19] <Crshman> when i try to open that file it's just a bunch of jibberish
[23:19] <Whiz2> wols_: I use a VNC type setup in order to get access to my KDE desktop (running X)
[23:19] <alcane_> anybody know anything about Hardy Heron's xorg?
[23:19] <wols_> Crshman: that is not for hardy kerneös
[23:19] <wols_> *kernels
[23:20] <Odd-rationale> Firefishe: did "passwd" work? to set password?
[23:20] <tyg13> carandraug: Do you have a link? Or is it real physical paper?!
[23:20] <MXIIA> odd-rationale: how do I do that?
[23:20] <Jordan_U> alcane_: Try asking your actual question / stating your problem
[23:20] <Crshman> wols_, I know, i don't think that patch has been applied for my specific model though
[23:20] <Firefishe> Odd-rationale:  *bonk*  Ooops, my bad.  Let me see.
[23:20] <rr> x, not                                   , someting like opnengl or directx
[23:20] <tyg13> carandraug: If its real paper I think I'm out of luck :)
[23:20] <carandraug> tyg13: real physical paper. Linux format is a magazine
[23:20] <Odd-rationale> MXIIA: in your file manager, go to bookmarks
[23:20] <tyg13> argh
[23:20] <alcane_> i can't display over 800x600, running a ATI Mach64 CT
[23:20] <Odd-rationale> MXIIA: bookmarks --> edit bookmarks
[23:20] <Whiz2> wols_: My VNC program uses X server or X11 (can't remember which)
[23:20] <tyg13> carandraug: I'll go google hunting. Thanks for the help.
[23:21] <alcane_> i'd use customer resolutions, but Heron's xorg isn't like past versions that I'm used to
[23:21] <alcane_> custom*
[23:21] <Firefishe> Odd-rationale:  Well, it did take the password, but the screen lock still won't recognize it...I may have to reset the x server, which means, of course, this window as well.
[23:21] <bastid_raZor> tyg13; using virtualbox you don't need to make a partition. virtualbox creates a file which it'll use to store your guest OS
[23:21] <wols_> alcane_: it still is
[23:21] <Jordan_U> xyblor_: Try ( from X ) "xhost + localhost" ( I havn't actually tried this but from the man page I think that it should work )
[23:21] <Whiz2> !X server
[23:21] <e7th04sh> i have gnome installed, yet neither gnome nor gnome-core appear installed in synaptic, why is this?
[23:21] <wols_> Jordan_U: never tell people to use xhost. EVER
[23:22] <Jordan_U> wols_: Sorry, xyblor_ Please don't use xhost
[23:22] <tyg13> bastid_raZor: No. I started off with windows then made a wubi install of ubuntu. I have the windows partition currently mounted. All I want to do is take an existing partition and use it in virtualbox
[23:22] <Whiz2> wols_: picky arent you?
[23:22] <wols_> Whiz2: google "remote X"
[23:22] <alcane_> wols_: it's not like anything i've ever seen.
[23:22] <wols_> Whiz2: I just don't want people to oppen security holes
[23:22] <carandraug> but in a resume, what they do is, 1 - boot from a liveCD, 2 - backup the entire Windows partition, 3 - resize the windows partition, freeing space for Linux, 4 - install a Linux OS on the newly freed space, 5 - Convert the windows partition to a VMDK file, 6 - Boot linux, install Virtualbox or Vmware, 7 - configure the windows VMDK file to create a virtual machine and run it
[23:23] <carandraug> tyg13: they call it inverting windows
[23:23] <Whiz2> wols_: AHA! X server is used to access the X desktop client from a remote location. (hence you saying remote X) I don't use a monitor on my server. I need to be able to access it remotely
[23:23] <needhelp> Jordan_U: I tried to change the software source, first disabling multiverse, and the result is http://paste.ubuntu.com/39541/
[23:23] <wols_> dpkg> somebody said xauth was the mechanism for sharing around authorisation for clients to connect to your X server. Ask me about <mit-magic-cookie> for more information. The xauth program is in the xbase-clients package (sarge and etch) or in the xauth package from lenny onwards. See also http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/cool_unix/xauth.html or ask me about <sshx>.
[23:24] <Jordan_U> wols_: I am curious what the correct way to do this would be
[23:24] <wols_> Whiz2: yes I know
[23:24] <Firefishe> brb
[23:24] <wols_> Jordan_U: see my paste
[23:24] <MXIIA> odd-rationale: thanks
[23:24] <Whiz2> wols_: so your argument that says I don't need X server is invalid :p
[23:24] <Jordan_U> needhelp: No, don't disable multiverse, disable the repositories in the "third party" tab
[23:24] <wols_> Whiz2: it is not
[23:24] <Whiz2> wols_: explaion
[23:24] <wols_> Whiz2: no
[23:24] <Finnish__> Where can I find info about my CPU temp in conky? acpitemp is not working
[23:24] <rr> x handles your screen remote or local
[23:25] <wols_> if you are too lazy to google I am too lazy to explain. seems fair to me
[23:25] <Whiz2> wols_: if you're not willing to explain, then don't give me the argument
[23:25] <s0|> Theaxiom, can virtual box run virtual machines if the host doesn't have X isntalled?
[23:25]  * wols_ plonks Whiz2
[23:25] <Whiz2> wols_: Are you telling me i should be relying soley on the commandline?
[23:25] <wols_> Whiz2: please stop talking to me
[23:26] <Theaxiom> s0|: http://www.sun.com/software/products/virtualbox/index.jsp
[23:26] <wols_> Finnish__: install lm-sensors and configure it perhaps
[23:26] <alcane_> Whiz2: yes, you need to understand the command line before you rely on gui's
[23:26] <khakane> ok, i got safely booted back to old kernel, is there a way i can make this kernel permenant, and back out of the kernel upgrade?
[23:26] <wols_> khakane: uninstall the new non working kernel
[23:27] <Whiz2> alcane_: why? the gui is there for those that do't use the command line
[23:27] <wols_> khakane: but you might set the kernel on hold or such
[23:27] <khakane> wols_: will i need to do it w/ dpkg?
[23:27] <wols_> khakane: no
[23:27] <khakane> k
[23:27] <Odd-rationale> Whiz2: what are you trying to do? remote desktop into your server?
[23:27] <Jordan_U> khakane: I would suggest trying to find the source of the problem as well though
[23:27] <rr> x shouldnt run local, its a virtual device
[23:27] <alcane_> Whiz2: would you rather just do something? or understand it so that next time you'll know what's going on?
[23:27] <alcane_> Whiz2: learn the command line and you'll be better off
[23:28] <xyblor_> Jordan_U: xhost + localhost didn't change anything
[23:28] <e7th04sh> i have gnome installed and i use it normally, but i messed it up a lot, so i decided to reinstall it - but it does not appear in my synaptic.. wtf?
[23:28] <mavsman4457> How do I uninstall Songbird?
[23:28] <wols_> mavsman4457: how did you install it?
[23:28] <khakane> Jordan_U: yea i should, oddly enough i got 2 servers alike, but im not ready to reboot the other yet, so im thinking for now i should just stick to the old kernel
[23:28] <Whiz2> Odd-rationale: yes! i have my server setup that way right now, but i'm about to format it and start over. I want to be able to use the remote desktop for things I don't know how to do from the command line
[23:28] <wols_> e7th04sh: apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
[23:29] <Jordan_U> xyblor_: Don't use xhost, it is insecure ( I shouldn't have recommended it ) see wols_'s comment for how to do this properly
[23:29] <alistair> Help: Hi I needed to use a Java package so installed openjdk. When I go to run a .jar program it does not have association to openjdk anyone advise pse?
[23:29] <mavsman4457> wols, i actually can't remember I think it was through a deb but I just found out that I don't need to uninstall it
[23:29] <Whiz2> Odd-rationale: catch is that for the system to work better when i do it, I need a recommendation for a lightweight X desktop
[23:29] <e7th04sh> wols_: what's with that?
[23:30] <wols_> e7th04sh: do it
[23:30] <e7th04sh> i did, i got and what's now?
[23:30] <khakane> wols_: how would i 'hold' it?
[23:30] <wols_> e7th04sh: what did it say?
[23:30] <wols_> !hold
[23:30] <speener_> why is it that i can't find pyqt on the add/remove application app?
[23:30] <e7th04sh> there is such package, it gave all the info about it
[23:30] <itachi> hey
[23:31] <itachi> i need help
[23:31] <wols_> !info python-qt4
[23:31] <wols_> e7th04sh: install it
[23:31] <ubuntu> is this a good system
[23:31] <itachi> can some1 help me plz
[23:31] <sugi> how do i open the old display options from gutsy?  It's in hardy, but you have to use the command line for it
[23:31] <wols_> !ask | itachi
[23:31] <tyg13> !info python
[23:31] <Theaxiom> Sorry guys for the OT but you gotta see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQlzX7EyIwU
[23:31] <tyg13> !info GNOME
[23:31] <wols_> Theaxiom: do not ever do this
[23:31] <itachi> im trying to find a fast link to download ubuntu
[23:32] <tyg13> !info KDE
[23:32] <speener_> dude, i don't want to know what pyqt is, i want to know why i cant find it in the repo
[23:32] <wols_> speener_: and I told it where it is.
[23:32] <Theaxiom> sorry :(
[23:32]  * Theaxiom puts his tail between his legs and scampers away
[23:32] <Whiz2> alcane_: in answer to your question, I'm fluent in MS-DOS. Learning a new command line that is more like programming doesn't seem neccessary if the gui can do the same things
[23:32] <tyg13> !info K
[23:32] <e7th04sh> oh man, everything so messed up with my system :/
[23:32] <itachi> can some1 help me find a fast link to download ubuntu
[23:32] <e7th04sh> i think i gotta reinstall whole ubuntu
[23:32] <sugi> how do I open the screen resolution from the terminal?  the old one from the days of gusty gibbon?
[23:32] <tyg13> !info john
[23:32] <wols_> tyg13: /msg ubottu <topic>   do not spam the channel
[23:32] <matt___> Not that this is the phone channel...but I'm (sorta looking) for new phone that I can put an ssh client on. Also, I won't to be able to do email and web, for very cheap. Any ideas?
[23:32] <e7th04sh> when i try to run synaptic from kde menu, i can't
[23:32] <wols_> matt___:
[23:33] <itachi> can some1 help me
[23:33] <Firefishe> Odd-rationale:  Well, it seems that I can set a password for the live cd session user, then select Switch User, and get the login prompt.  So a small amount of security. :)  Works for me.
[23:33] <itachi> omg
[23:33] <wols_> matt___: #hardware. this is OT here
[23:33] <tyg13> wols_: sorry :(
[23:33] <speener_> wols_: you did? where??
[23:33] <Whiz2> itachi: ask your question
[23:33] <e7th04sh> i have to run it from console :/
[23:33] <wols_> speener_: /msg ubottu info python-qt4
[23:33] <ubuntu> can i still play online games with ubuntu ....i know its stupid
[23:33] <Firefishe> e7th04sh:  Go to a terminal and do:  sudo synaptic
[23:33] <bastid_raZor> itachi; http://releases.ubuntu.com/
[23:33] <wols_> e7th04sh: apt-get install <package>
[23:33] <xintron> How would I do if I'm looking for "/tmp/" in all files in a folder?
[23:33] <e7th04sh> Firefishe: so i do, just don't get wtf
[23:34] <matt___> wols_: what is OT?
[23:34] <wols_> matt___: off topic.
[23:34] <kindofabuzz> overtime
[23:34] <Firefishe> e7th04sh:  I'd check the entry in the menu editor.
[23:34] <e7th04sh> it's ok
[23:34] <rr> or on topic
[23:34] <speener_> wols_: this is what it replied:  >ubuttu< info python-qt4
[23:34] <Firefishe> e7th04sh:  Hmm...gonna have to think on this one.
[23:34] <Saladin> I have a problem with the internet at the moment - Whenever I reboot my laptop, my internet dies in so much as I am unable to connect to anything like IRC, MSN, any web pages. Ubuntu recognises there is a network connection, but nothing works. Checking my System Monitor, I can see there is about 10Kbps down stream but about 115Kbps upstream. Any ideas what the problem could be, anyone?
[23:34] <thesaint4444> itachi: go to the unbuntu site and use the links you find there. choose a country near to you.
[23:34] <Whiz2> ok how about this... I don't need X Desktop on my server... I *want* X Desktop on my server to make things easier... fair enough?
[23:34] <matt___> wols_: I've never heard of that phone. But thanks for the recommendation ;)
[23:34] <wols_> speener_: ubottu told you where to find the python qt bindings and what name the package has you need to install!
[23:34] <Firefishe> e7th04sh:  What version you running?  8.04?
[23:35] <Saladin> Whiz2: What version of Ubuntu server?
[23:35] <e7th04sh> no idea :P i installed it like in March, but i am running updates
[23:35] <tgm4883_laptop> is there a way to run cron.hourly to test it to make sure these jobs will run right when it comes time, or do I have to wait for it to run automatically?
[23:35] <wols_> matt___: ONLY ask ubuntu support questions in here. not stuff about phones. comprende?
[23:35] <Whiz2> Saladin: Currently running Kubuntu 6.06 LST
[23:35] <failure> strange problem, i pxe installed an ubuntu image from a local repository, however when the prompt in the installer came up and asked me to enter my desired username, the output seemed to be in arabic. Additionally, after the complete install the keyboard seems to print blank characters at the initial Ubuntu screen. I have checked the preseed file, the pxeconfig/custom file and compared it to that of the default
[23:36] <e7th04sh> Anyways, why did my gnome does not appear in synaptic?
[23:36] <speener_> wols_: ok...now where do i find it?
[23:36] <Firefishe> e7
[23:36] <wols_> e7th04sh: cause there is no such package in main. why didn't you install what I told you?
[23:36] <Saladin> Whiz2: Try this link, and follow the instructions - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LowMemorySystems - That will give you all you need to do.
[23:36] <e7th04sh> wols_: i am doing it
[23:36] <wols_> !info python-qt4
[23:36] <Saladin> I have a problem with the internet at the moment - Whenever I reboot my laptop, my internet dies in so much as I am unable to connect to anything like IRC, MSN, any web pages. Ubuntu recognises there is a network connection, but nothing works. Checking my System Monitor, I can see there is about 10Kbps down stream but about 115Kbps upstream. Any ideas what the problem could be, anyone?
[23:36] <wols_> speener_: READ
[23:37] <habernet> i partitioned my hard disk (90 something gb) for 15 gb of ntfs file system and the rest unallocated...i installed xp pro on 15 gb and now want to install 8.04.1 on the rest, in ubuntu's installation should i do the guided installation where it uses the "largest continuous free space" to install on the unallocated part of my hdd?...otherwise it wants to use my entire disk or resize my 15gb (xp) partition
[23:37] <wols_> Saladin: check what it uploads
[23:37] <e7th04sh> wols_: but wait, i have a gnome running, and i want to reinstall it - if i am doing what you told me, am i doing what i want?
[23:37] <Whiz2> Saladin: It's not RAM I'm worried about
[23:37] <wols_> e7th04sh: no
[23:37] <Firefishe> habernet:  I'd go with manual install
[23:37] <e7th04sh> also, when i uninstalled firefox to get firefox 3, it made me remove fe. ubuntu-docs
[23:37] <e7th04sh> is that normal?
[23:38] <Firefishe> habernet:  manual partitioning, I mean.
[23:38] <habernet> firefishe, okay im going to do that now, could you help me out if i have any questions about the install
[23:38] <habernet> ?
[23:38] <Firefishe> habernet:  Do you know how to do that?
[23:38] <Firefishe> habernet:  sure...let's go to pm
[23:38] <Saladin> Whiz2: I know. But follow those instructions; under the bit about installing a window manager
[23:38] <roe_> is there a good graphical sftp client?
[23:38] <Saladin> wols_: How can I do that?
[23:38] <wols_> roe_: filezilla maybe
[23:38] <theneb> roe_: gnome-vftp ;)
[23:38] <speener_> wols_: ok, let me rephrase, how do i install it?
[23:39] <zan> hihi
[23:39] <Kumorigoe> Here's one.  I'm working on getting my laptop to connect to my WiFi network.  I think I'm having problems with WPA Supplicant.  the command sudo wpa_cli returns the error "Could not connect to wpa_supplicant - re-trying"  Any ideas?
[23:39] <wols_> speener_: I gave you the fscking package name! a properly configured ubuntu will install it
[23:39] <molecule> anyone know a laptop webcam what works in ubuntu? (one of those you attack to the top of the screen)
[23:39] <wols_> !hcl | molecule
[23:39] <wols_> !webcam | molecule
[23:39] <Whiz2> Saladin: so basically installa server system (or command line system) then install the desktop?
[23:39] <molecule> ty wols_
[23:40] <Saladin> Whiz2: Yeah. That is what I did on my server.
[23:40] <Whiz2> Saladin: thanks
[23:40] <mavsman4457> Has anyone downloaded the new songbird?
[23:40] <Saladin> Whiz2: No problems.
[23:40] <Whiz2> looks like I'mlearning the commandline as a start anyway lol
[23:40] <speener_> wols_: dude, see...that's my point
[23:40] <wols_> !anyone | mavsman4457
[23:40] <speener_> why can't i find these packages??
[23:40] <wols_> speener_: broken sources.list
[23:40] <speener_> in the add/remove apps thing
[23:40] <speener_> how do i update or fix it?
[23:40] <inside0ut> hi.. i used to use linux a fair amount like 10 years ago i'm a little lost on how things are supposed to be working these days i guess.. just wondering what's the way i'm supposed to launch a text editor to have admin priv? i was thinking sudo and find the execuitable name but i figured there might be a simple way i'm missing
[23:41] <wols_> speener_: edit it, check your repos in synaptic, etc
[23:41] <beilabs> Anyone here getting Illegal Instruction when you run Firefox or epiphany-browser?
[23:41] <mavsman4457> I installed the new songbird and it shows no top menu ie file, edit, view, etc. why not?
[23:41] <wols_> inside0ut: that
[23:41] <e7th04sh> i would like to trash all my disk and install new ubuntu on it - how do i this?
[23:41] <e7th04sh> do i do*
[23:41] <quarterlife> Working fine here, beilabs.
[23:41] <wols_> inside0ut: that's it for cli editors. gksudo for gui ones
[23:41] <e7th04sh> if i have no cd-rom on this computer? ^_^'
[23:41] <Saladin> Whiz2: I use the command line a lot, even though I use the GUI. Generally makes life easier, but I can't do everything in there, as I don't have the knowledge.
[23:41] <wols_> e7th04sh: boot frm livecd and delete the ubuntu partition(s)
[23:42] <beilabs> quarterlife, hmm, have deleted the .mozilla folder, still can't seem to get it working
[23:42] <refriedbeans> for some reason, when i try to play a flash video, i can't hear any audio
[23:42] <wols_> e7th04sh: then reinstall
[23:42] <Jordan_U> !install | e7th04sh
[23:42] <Saladin> Whiz2: You'll find you use the command line more and more as you go along
[23:42] <beilabs> have purged firefox, reinstalled and still no dice
[23:42] <xintron> I get "Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-ALOTOFNUMBERSANDCHARS: Connection refused" when using for example rhythmbox and gnome-search-tool. I'm using fluxbox and what is causing this error?
[23:42] <wols_> xintron: no dbus running
[23:42] <itachi> can some giveme a link to download ubuntu at high speed
[23:42] <Jordan_U> beilabs: Tried renaming your .mozilla folder?
[23:43] <Saladin> wols_: How do I check what is uploading?
[23:43] <itachi> can some giveme a link to download ubuntu at high speed
[23:43] <wols_> Saladin: netstat, possibly iptraf, etc
[23:43] <xintron> wols_: ok, how do I start it?
[23:43] <beilabs> Jordan_U, renaming?  umm, I deleted it....reinstalling, re-configuring it should have sorted it out, but nope
[23:43] <itachi> can some giveme a link to download ubuntu at high speed
[23:43] <Saladin> wols_: Thanks man
[23:43] <wols_> xintron: install it first
[23:43] <itachi> can some giveme a link to download ubuntu at high speed
[23:43] <bastid_raZor> itachi; that link will get it at decent speeds
[23:43] <wols_> !repeat | itachi
[23:43] <xintron> wols_: it's working on my gnome-session but not my fluxbox-session. So it is installed.
[23:43] <wols_> itachi: stop the spamming. you only annoy is all and won't get any help
[23:44] <Saladin> itachi: Go to ubuntu.com and choose a download mirror close to you.
[23:44] <wols_> *us
[23:44] <refriedbeans> for some reason, when i try to play a flash video, i can't hear any audio
[23:44] <Saladin> itachi: That is the best way to ensure good speed
[23:44] <wols_> xintron: IIRC some init script, but not sure
[23:45] <itachi> the speed is slow
[23:45] <beilabs> Jordan_U, the .mozilla folder was re-created, still getting an illegal instruction error though.
[23:45] <wols_> itachi: are you paying for it? no? then don't complain
[23:45] <Saladin> wols_: Lol
[23:45] <itachi> y u being so rude -.-
[23:45] <refriedbeans> lol
[23:45] <wols_> itachi: cause you are whiny and think you are entitled to something which you aren't
[23:46] <refriedbeans> where are the admins when you need them?
[23:46] <rr> whats the speed ?
[23:46] <itachi> im just wondering... where can i downbload it faster
[23:46] <Saladin> refriedbeans: About your flash problem... Give me a moment and I will get the command for you
[23:46] <beilabs> itachi, torrent?
[23:46] <wols_> itachi: you were told
[23:46] <refriedbeans> oh ok, thank you so much saladin :)
[23:46] <itachi> 90kbps
[23:46] <wols_> refriedbeans: start the browser in a xterm and check output
[23:46] <qoncept> how do i see how much disk space i have free from a command line/
[23:46] <wols_> qoncept: df
[23:46] <bastid_raZor> qoncept; df -h
[23:46] <qoncept> thx
[23:47] <xintron> wols_: sudo /etc/init.d/dbus start * system message bus already started; not starting.
[23:47] <refriedbeans> wols_, whats an xterm?
[23:47] <failure> i keep receiving arabic output from my keyboard when i am installing Ubuntu via D-I.
[23:47] <wols_> refriedbeans: an X terminal
[23:47] <wols_> xintron: then I dunno, sorry
[23:47] <theom3ga> hi there. I've just downloaded a .rar file with an iso file. When I try to mount (using -o loop) it says the format is not iso9660. I've opened the header of the file in hexadecimal and it says something about "Apple partition map". Is there a way of opening it?
[23:47] <itachi> ....
[23:47] <wols_> theom3ga: file <file.iso>
[23:47] <theom3ga> wols_, it says just "Data"
[23:48] <wols_> theom3ga: some sort of apple proprietary iso :(
[23:48] <wols_> theom3ga: qneed to find out what format it is. hfs can be mounted
[23:48] <wols_> dunno about apple dmg
[23:48] <Saladin> refriedbeans: use - sudo apt-get install libflashsupport
[23:48] <theom3ga> damn apple
[23:49] <refriedbeans> oh ok, thank you
[23:49] <Saladin> refriedbeans: Use that in the command line. Apologies for the slow answer, I can never remember what it's called.
[23:49] <danhs> hey, how can I verify an alias is working?
[23:49] <dpick> how do you change the menu in xubuntu, menu editor doesn't show most of the entries?
[23:49] <wols_> danhs: alias
[23:49] <danhs> can I type in the alias and say "echo" or something
[23:49] <refriedbeans> no no, thats fine. take your time getting answers
[23:49] <danhs> wols_: nice....
[23:49] <danhs> thanks
[23:49] <refriedbeans> if i'm going to get assistance, i have to be patient :)
[23:50] <danhs> wols_: no way to type in the actual alias command itself and see what it translates to though, right?
[23:50] <wols_> danhs: alias |grep aliastocheck
[23:50] <bastid_raZor> wols_; what should file file.iso have said if it were a mountable iso?
[23:50] <wols_> bastid_raZor: iso9660 image or such
[23:50] <bastid_raZor> wols_; ok, thanks
[23:50] <danhs> wols_: ehh...okay....I thought there was somepoint where the remapped command (the alias) spit something out to standard out which I could just "catch"
[23:51] <wols_> danhs: KISS
[23:51] <danhs> haha
[23:51] <molgrum> have there been any updates since the -21 kernel? i haven't gotten anything new and want to put the kernel update on hold
[23:51] <danhs> wols_: just hoping to verify that it was precisely right, that's all...
[23:51] <danhs> thanks very much for the help
[23:51] <Jordan_U> bastid_raZor: Have you tried anything like "mount -t hfs -o loop file.iso /mountpoint" ?
[23:51] <wols_> molgrum: check packages.ubuntu.com yourself
[23:52] <wols_> Jordan_U: file should recognize hfs volumes
[23:52] <refriedbeans> Saladin, thank you so much!! i finally have audio on youtube again. i give you kudos :)
[23:52] <failure> when i select en_US as a langauge from the installer, how come I see arabic output when i type within the installer?
[23:53] <failure> d-i debial-installer/locale string en_US
[23:53] <obf213> y does totem crash my system
[23:53] <obf213> i hate that
[23:53] <Saladin> refriedbeans: Not a problem buddy. Is what we're here for, no?
[23:53] <refriedbeans> for some reason, totem and vlc tend to freeze up ubuntu when i attempt to play mp4 videos
[23:54] <refriedbeans> i have the same problem obf213
[23:54] <bastid_raZor> Jordan_U; as wols said.. if file didn't see it as hfs then mount won't either
[23:54] <Saladin> wols_: I just tried netstat, and there is too much info to see it one go. Is there a way to see just a page at a time, like the DOS /p parameter?
[23:55] <wols_> Saladin: |less
[23:55] <kernnando> im tryin to open a file... using chmod +x but it just says the file doesnt exist
[23:55] <wols_> kernnando: what file?
[23:55] <kernnando> its an executable file
[23:55] <refriedbeans> i've noticed that Ubuntu takes advantage of my cable-based connection and the speed seems a lot faster than on windows
[23:55] <wols_> answer me. what name
[23:55] <hiptobecubic> I have a usb drive with several partitions. What is the fastest way to dismount all of the partitions so I can safely unplug it? Can you dismount an entire device?
[23:56] <wols_> refriedbeans: windows tcp stack is atrocious
[23:56] <bastid_raZor> refriedbeans; windows reserves some of your bandwidth to talk to M$..
[23:56] <theom3ga> umount -a ?
[23:56] <wols_> theom3ga: bad choice very bad
[23:56] <Pokshun> when I do "groups abcd" I see, abcd : xyz mno  ... So the user "abc" is in groups "xyz" and "mno". I want this user to be removed from group "xyz". I did a "usermod -G mno abcd" but that didn't work
[23:56] <Saladin> refriedbeans: Yeah, I noticed that as well. My download speed went from about 100Kbps to a solidly stable 250Kbps
[23:56] <Saladin> Ubuntu FTW
[23:56] <hiptobecubic> theom3ga, won't that completely dismount everything including my os?
[23:57] <refriedbeans> i definitely know m$ is very shady, especially on vista
[23:57] <kernnando> its a file my friend sent me called keymaker but yeah it wont open its for nerolinux
[23:57] <theom3ga> hiptobecubic, the in-use partitions won't get umounted
[23:57] <wols_> !warez | kernnando
[23:57] <refriedbeans> yeah, even copying files from my IDE HDD to my flash drive seems faster on ubuntu too
[23:57] <Pokshun> Friends, when I do "groups abcd" I see, abcd : xyz mno  ... So the user "abc" is in groups "xyz" and "mno". I want this user to be removed from group "xyz". I did a "usermod -G mno abcd" but that didn't work
[23:58] <fsufitch> guys, i have this weird problem. after not using my compiz effects (cube, animations etc) for a while (3 minutes or so), if i start using them again they lag for a few seconds then work smoothly again. i'm on a dell xps 1330 sporting ubuntu 8.10, dual core 2.0 GHz, 2 GB ram, and a nvidia gfx card able to handle all compiz with no problem. might it be turning itself off to save power? does anyone know how to fix this?
[23:58] <mEDEc> okay i have this disk where i get some kind of { DRDY } error at boot, stalling the ubuntu install process.
[23:58] <refriedbeans> i know for a fact that m$ uses windows media player 11 as spyware. when i used to plug in my ipod in the beginning, i would get a prompt from my firewall if windows media player could access the internet. i got that prompt everytime
[23:59] <refriedbeans> so after a while, i blocked wmp from going on the internet at all times
[23:59] <mEDEc> windows can boot with the disk just fine, and arch complains, but after a while proceeds to boot as well. anybody know what's going on?
[23:59] <Jordan_U> fsufitch: Most likely compiz's memory is being paged to disk ( if you are low on RAM especially )
[23:59] <fsufitch> Jordan_U: my ram is at 20% usage
[23:59] <fsufitch> *22%


[01:00] <pleia2> not sure if the ubuntu online summit announcement will make it out before our cutoff this weekend, but it can be added to general news if it does (and fridge!)
[01:01] <pleia2> PaulW2U: I enjoyed your post :) thanks for writing it
[01:09] <pleia2> ok, doc sent off to summary writers
[01:14] <ahoneybun> pleia2: I'm going to have something else to add to the doc tomorrow
[01:14] <ahoneybun> need to get some info put together for a blog post
[01:15] <pleia2> ahoneybun: congrats on KC :)
[01:15] <ahoneybun> thanks pleia2
[01:15] <ahoneybun> if this fits: http://kubuntu.org/news/new-kubuntu-council-members/
[01:16] <pleia2> it's already under general news
[01:16] <ahoneybun> k
[01:17] <pleia2> :)
[01:17] <ahoneybun> I still can't believe that PaulW2U was not a ubuntu member till now
[01:17] <ahoneybun> or then
[01:17] <ahoneybun> I should say
[01:18] <pleia2> well, since january anyway
[01:18] <pleia2> but still, he's been a solid contributor for some time now
[01:19] <ahoneybun> yea alot of work
[03:48] <imnichol> Decided to contribute again, thanks PaulW2U for the reminder!
[09:45] <PaulW2U> pleia2: thanks, I started writing it in January :)
[09:46] <PaulW2U> imnichol: Great!
[14:53] <ahoneybun> pleia2: I have plans in motion to expand Ubuntu Hours in fl
[17:40] <ahoneybun> where should this go? http://usefoss.com/index.php/2015/09/12/the-wildest-ubuntu-wily-release-party-in-florida/
[17:44] <PaulW2U> ahoneybun: LoCo News
[17:44] <ahoneybun> thanks PaulW2U I'm waiting for the planet to pick up no?
[17:45] <PaulW2U> Oh right, but still LoCo News :)
[17:48] <ahoneybun> yea I just posted it so it will take a bit of time for it to pick it up
[18:08] <PaulW2U> ahoneybun: LoCo News not planet :)
[18:08] <ahoneybun> opps
[18:09] <ahoneybun> sorry


[15:00] <ddstreet> o/
[15:04] <ddstreet> hmm just me so far...
[15:04] <sil2100> o/
[15:09] <sil2100> Do we have a quorum?
[15:10] <ddstreet> no so far :(
[15:11] <ddstreet> i guess let's give it another 5 minutes to see if 2 more members show up, since we do have an applicant on the schedule
[15:11] <ddstreet> though i'm not sure if halves is around either
[15:11] <halves> ddstreet I'm here =]
[15:12] <ddstreet> o/ hurray! well let's see if we can get quorum then...
[15:12] <sil2100> I might be a bit less responsive right now as I have a conflicitng ongoing meeting now
[15:13] <sil2100> halves: in case we don't get quorum today - do you want to move your application to the next meeting or maybe try via e-mail?
[15:13] <halves> sil2100 I'm not sure how it would work via e-mail, but either would be fine by me
[15:14] <sil2100> I know we didn't do quite well with e-mail applications in the past, but maybe it's time to just try to make things better!
[15:14] <halves> well, I'm open to giving it a try fwiw hehehe
[15:15] <ddstreet> yep, and i think i'm going to add a rules item to next mtg's agenda to propose an official way to explicity handle situations like this
[15:15] <sil2100> The problem was usually that DMB members took too long to reply with questions and/or votes
[15:16] <ddstreet> we've started to do quite poorly with quorum this year, down to only 52% of our mtgs reach quorum :(
[15:16] <sil2100> ddstreet: +1
[15:17] <sil2100> halves: ok, let's maybe do it like this - let me take the action of starting the handling of your application via e-mail but, at the same time, move you to the next meeting, so that if things get too slow via e-mail then we can at least attempt getting this fixed in 2 weeks
[15:18] <halves> sil2100 ok, thank you! just so I'm subscribed to the right places, are email applications handled in a public list? ubuntu-devel or devel-permission, maybe?
[15:18] <ddstreet> it'll be on devel-permission
[15:19] <ddstreet> thanks sil2100
[15:20] <ddstreet> so i think we're wrapped up for today then, with no quorum, and moving the application to email (and/or next mtg), i'll be around for a while if anyone has any other business too
[15:20] <halves> thank you, ddstreet sil2100 :)
[15:20] <rbasak> o/
[15:20] <rbasak> Sorry I'm late
[15:21] <ddstreet> ah, hi o/
[15:21] <rbasak> (I'm still otp)
[15:21] <ddstreet> still only 3, though
[15:22] <sil2100> o/
[15:23] <rbasak> I sent !dmb-ping
[15:23] <rbasak> T
[15:23] <rbasak> That might alert others
[15:23]  * ddstreet refills coffee
[15:23] <rafaeldtinoco> Im here
[15:24] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry was finishing up fisiotherapy
[15:24] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: rbasak sil2100
[15:24] <rafaeldtinoco> want to continue ?
[15:24] <rbasak> I'm happy to proceed now
[15:25] <sil2100> o/
[15:25] <rafaeldtinoco> ok
[15:26] <sil2100> Question is: who is to the chair for this meeting?
[15:26] <rafaeldtinoco> can someone do it ? I swear I''l do the next
[15:28] <ddstreet> sure i can chair
[15:28] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[15:28] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:28:55 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:28] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:29] <sil2100> halves: hey, you still around I hope? ;)
[15:29] <halves> sil2100 still around :)
[15:29] <ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:30] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:31] <ddstreet> i'll get to this eventually i suppose :(
[15:31] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:31] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:31] <ddstreet> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html (carried over)
[15:31] <rafaeldtinoco> nope, I did the similar requests that came through email but forgot to see there was a leftover
[15:31] <rafaeldtinoco> carry this over please and I'll update later today
[15:31] <ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html (carried over)
[15:31] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html (carried over)
[15:32] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward to add FourDollars to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:32] <ddstreet> don't think he is around today
[15:33] <ddstreet> i think he did this though
[15:34] <ddstreet> ah yes, found the team https://launchpad.net/~canonical-oem-metapackage-uploaders/+members
[15:35] <ddstreet> he has been added
[15:35] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward to announce FourDollars' successful application
[15:35] <ddstreet> and announced https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-June/001702.html
[15:35] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward to apply Utkarsh's core dev permissions
[15:36] <ddstreet> yep, he has been added to ~ubuntu-core-dev team
[15:36] <sil2100> \o/
[15:36] <teward> yep to 4dollars.  i literally JUST woke up because i had no sleep last night so apologies I am not here on time and am basically dead this meeting
[15:36] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward to announce Utkarsh's successful application
[15:36] <teward> (insomnia is a pain)
[15:36] <ddstreet> ah hello o/
[15:37] <teward> (i'm still not here fully)
[15:37] <ddstreet> that is announced as well https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-June/001701.html
[15:37] <ddstreet> ok that's all the previous action items
[15:37] <ddstreet> i think we can move directly to SRU developer application for halves
[15:38] <ddstreet> #topic SRU Developer application
[15:38] <ddstreet> halves welcome, can you introduce yourself please?
[15:39] <ddstreet> halves i think you briefly dropped, i'd just asked if you could introduce yourself
[15:39] <ddstreet> and also, welcome :)
[15:40] <halves> ddstreet sorry, I was having some connection issues. seems stable now, hopefully there won't be problems
[15:40] <halves> Hello, everyone! I'm Heitor, I work for Canonical in the Sustaining Engineering team. Most of my work is on bugs reported by Ubuntu Advantage customers, where I need to backport patches to the stable Ubuntu releases. I'd like to apply for the SRU developer role today. My wiki page has some examples of my work so far: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halves/sru-developer
[15:40] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halves/sru-developer
[15:41] <ddstreet> thanks, i'll give some time for everyone to read and ask questions
[15:42] <sil2100> halves: hello! Question: when working on an SRU and trying to fix multiple bugs, how would you decide whether you should cherry-pick single fixes or backport a whole new upstream release for the changes?
[15:45] <halves> sil2100 hi!
[15:46] <halves> sil2100 well, I think that would depend on the specific pkg. I'd start checking how much we'd have to change with individual cherry-picks, if it's simple changes that are mostly "self-contained", I'd probably lean towards that. if the patches are complex and have additional dependencies, I'd evaluate the feasibility of doing a new release
[15:46] <sil2100> Thanks
[15:46] <rbasak> halves: have you ever dealt with SRUs that aren't just cherry-picked bugfixes? Eg. feature changes, or new upstream releases?
[15:47] <rafaeldtinoco> he created his own set of upstream changes for netplan at: https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/89/commits/8795c1f7e666fd53fbd965cabba30bc167784dbc
[15:47] <halves> rbasak yes, I've had to push upstream and Debian fixes before doing SRUs before
[15:47] <halves> thanks rafaeldtinoco, Netplan is a good example :)
[15:47] <rbasak> halves: I mean: have you managed an SRU where the upload to Ubuntu wasn't a cherry-pick?
[15:47] <rafaeldtinoco> halves: what are migration excuses and why are they important for SRU proposals ?
[15:49] <halves> rbasak yes, I've also had to do backports due to upstream patches diverging or not applying directly. there's a recent ZFS example in my wiki page, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1875577
[15:51] <halves> rafaeldtinoco iirc migration excuses are important for moving SRUs "forward", out from the -proposed pocket into -releases. sometimes we can get autopkgtest failures or regressions that are not caused by the patch being introduced, and we might need to get the pkgs out of -proposed due to important fixes regardless of the autopkgtest results (such as security fixes or severe regressions)
[15:52] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks, from your answers so far and your work showed in LP I already have my vote. I'll wait for others to continue.
[15:53] <ddstreet> time check, no rush, but just pointing out our normal mtg end time is in ~7 minutes; i'm able to continue, if everyone else can
[15:54] <ddstreet> sil2100 rbasak any further q or should we move to voting?
[15:54] <rbasak> halves: let's say that a customer requests the addition of a new feature in a package in Focal, and asks you to land it as this application was successful. How would you determine if that would be permitted or not?
[15:54] <ddstreet> since halves is on my team and i endorsed him, i'll hold my vote to the end
[15:56] <halves> rbasak sorry, I'm not sure I understood the "this application was succesful" part. would this be something a customer has tested in-house and asked me to implement/backport into focal?
[15:56] <rbasak> halves: sorry ignore that part, it's not important. Your second question is correct. If that's the situation, then how would you determine if the requested change is acceptable?
[15:58] <halves> rbasak well, that one would be a bit hard to answer without more context, I think. if it's a package I'm familiar with, I'd evaluate the feature, see if it's implemented or has plans to be implemented upstream first. if it's something I'm not that much familiar with, I'd probably still consult upstream and evaluate how relevant it would be for an LTS release
[15:59] <halves> I understand the SRU process is not strictly for implementing new features, so it would depend on how relevant the specific feature in question is (i.e. if it fixes existing issues, etc)
[15:59] <rbasak> halves: who would make the final decision?
[16:01] <halves> rbasak if it's just a matter of implementing a new feature "just because" then I'd simply explain to the requester that this is not how the SRU process works, but I'd likely consult more experienced core devs first
[16:02] <rbasak> halves: I agree that's a good set of actions to take in this situation. But I want to know how well you understand how decision making happens in Ubuntu with respect to SRUs. Can you tell me who ultimately decides if a new feature is or isn't acceptable in an SRU in Ubuntu?
[16:06]  * rafaeldtinoco has a hard stop in ~10
[16:07] <halves> rbasak I'm thinking that would be a core-dev, but I've never been in that situation before honestly. seems like this would be a good topic for me to study up on
[16:08] <rbasak> OK, thanks
[16:10] <ddstreet> rbasak any further q?
[16:10] <rbasak> No further questions, thanks
[16:11] <ddstreet> ok thanks let's get the vote in before rafaeldtinoco has to go
[16:11] <ddstreet> #vote Grant Heitor Alves de Siqueira SRU Developer
[16:11] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Heitor Alves de Siqueira SRU Developer
[16:11] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[16:12] <ddstreet> as mentioned, i'll hold my vote to the end
[16:12]  * rbasak is typing
[16:13] <rafaeldtinoco> +1. Despite Heitor not having so many SRUs, I have gone through his work, through the bugs he has worked on. He has a very good documentation on what he does. He gives enough information in the bugs so one can find how to reproduce the issue and how his actions are targetting the resolution. He has good upstream work with netplan showing development skills. He has good knowledge about internals considering his linux
[16:13] <rafaeldtinoco> kernel work. Therefore I will be very happy with him being part of the sru uploader team.
[16:13] <meetingology> +1. Despite Heitor not having so many SRUs, I have gone through his work, through the bugs he has worked on. He has a very good documentation on what he does. He gives enough information in the bugs so one can find how to reproduce the issue and how his actions are targetting the resolution. He has good upstream work with netplan showing development skills. He has good knowledge about internals considering his linux received from ra
[16:18] <rbasak> -1 but hopefully with a very straightforward path to changing my vote to a +1
[16:18] <meetingology> -1 but hopefully with a very straightforward path to changing my vote to a +1 received from rbasak
[16:18] <rbasak> Your SRU work looks good, and you have strong endorsements. So I'm confident that you can produce technicallhy good quality SRUs without supervision - when they are cherry-picks.
[16:18] <rbasak> However I'm concerned that you don't fully follow the social aspect here: who is responsible for what, who can make final decisions, and so forth. When you can upload and others cannot, the social tendency is that you end up becoming the gatekeeper for unusual requests too. I don't expect you to be able to deal with these yourself, but I do think you ought to understand who to ask, and who can
[16:18] <rbasak> decide.
[16:18] <rbasak> I'm therefore -1 for now. I'd like you to go over this with one of your mentors. Once done, and your mentor confirms that they think you do have this straight in your mind, then I'd be happy to change my vote to +1 without need for a further meeting.
[16:19] <rbasak> It's just the social side that I'm concerned about. I have no doubt in your technical skill here.
[16:20] <ddstreet> sil2100 you still around to vote?
[16:24] <ddstreet> te-ward indicated earlier he wasn't able to stay, and it looks like sil2100 had to leave as well, leaving us without quorum to finish voting (even with my vote)...i'll give a few more minutes before calling it
[16:25] <halves> rbasak thank you for the feedback! I'm happy for the positive notes on the technical side, and will follow up on your other concerns for sure
[16:29] <rafaeldtinoco> halves: and i would encourage you to follow core-dev application, its very obvious you have the skills to do so, maybe you can start helping in maintaining a package not getting too much attention
[16:29] <ddstreet> ok looks like we won't make voting quorum today, so no need for me to vote
[16:30] <ddstreet> #endvote
[16:30] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Heitor Alves de Siqueira SRU Developer
[16:30] <meetingology> Votes for: 1, Votes against: 1, Abstentions: 0
[16:30] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:30] <ddstreet> well, not actually carried
[16:30] <ddstreet> sorry halves, but as discussed above I hope we'll see you reapply soon :)
[16:31] <rafaeldtinoco> +1
[16:31] <halves> ddstreet no worries! I definitely will :)
[16:31] <halves> thank you all for reviewing my application today
[16:31] <ddstreet> ok just a couple more items before wrapping the mtg
[16:31] <ddstreet> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[16:32] <ddstreet> #subtopic https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-August/001718.html
[16:32] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco did you happen to handle that one?
[16:32] <ddstreet> if you're still around
[16:32] <rafaeldtinoco> that one is done, I think I replied to it
[16:33] <ddstreet> great, thanks
[16:33] <ddstreet> #subtopic https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-August/001722.html
[16:33] <rafaeldtinoco> the archives dont show multi-month thread replies i think =(
[16:34] <ddstreet> anyone want to take this ml request?
[16:34] <ddstreet> ok i can review it, looks easy
[16:35] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet to review ml request https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-August/001722.html
[16:35] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to review ml request https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-August/001722.html
[16:35] <ddstreet> unless i missed anything from the list, i think that's all the pending emails
[16:35] <ddstreet> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[16:35] <ddstreet> guess i'll move myself to the end :)
[16:36] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco i'll just leave you as the next chair
[16:36] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: alright
[16:36] <rafaeldtinoco> tku
[16:36] <ddstreet> #topic Any other business
[16:36] <ddstreet> long mtg today, anything else?
[16:36] <ddstreet> ok let's wrap up then, thanks all o/
[16:36] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[16:36] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:36:52 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-08-23-15.28.moin.txt
[16:37] <ddstreet> i'll update the agenda
[16:37] <ddstreet> thanks everyone!


[01:23] <waltman> ChinnoDog: I know perl.
[01:26] <waltman> (for future reference)
[05:22] <ChinnoDog> waltman: I know :-) I didn't know if you were here though.