[12:31] <kmon> hi
[12:40] <kmon> is there anyway to replace mactel efi? (with something that doesn't play a sound at start, for instance)
[12:42] <Burgundavia> kmon: this relaly isn;t a suppor tchannel, but I think there is a project called OpenEFI
[12:43] <kmon> Burgundavia: thanks
[12:54] <Kano> hi, why dos: id -u now core dump?
[12:55] <Kano> (testing amd64 current kubuntu iso)
[12:56] <s0undt3ch> hello ppl
[12:56] <s0undt3ch> hello ppl, anyone knows if gtk+2 package ships with it's translations?
[12:56] <s0undt3ch> aparently not, is this a bug?
[12:58] <Amaranth> s0undt3ch: translations are stripped out of main packages
[12:58] <Amaranth> s0undt3ch: we have language packs instead
[12:58] <s0undt3ch> Amaranth: then their not working
[12:58] <s0undt3ch> at least for gtk+2 stuff
[12:58] <s0undt3ch> like it's stock buttons
[12:58] <s0undt3ch> if you have gimp installed there try this
[12:58] <Amaranth> gutsy?
[12:59] <s0undt3ch> LC_ALL=pt_PT.UTF-8 gimp-2.2
[12:59] <s0undt3ch> or your preferred locale
[12:59] <s0undt3ch> Amaranth: the stock buttons are not translated
[12:59] <Amaranth> s0undt3ch: you have the language pack installed?
[01:00] <ogra> s0undt3ch, do you have language-pack-gnome-pt and language-pack-gnome-pt-base ?
[01:00] <s0undt3ch> Amaranth: yes, language-pack.pt
[01:00] <s0undt3ch> Amaranth: I'm on kubuntu
[01:00] <Amaranth> answer ogra's question :)
[01:00] <ogra> s0undt3ch, gimp is no kde app ;)
[01:01] <s0undt3ch> and yes language-pack-kde-pt-base is already the newest version.
[01:01] <s0undt3ch> language-pack-kde-pt is already the newest version.
[01:01] <Amaranth> s0undt3ch: gimp is not a KDE app
[01:01] <ogra> s0undt3ch, do you have language-pack-gnome-pt and language-pack-gnome-pt-base ?
[01:01] <ogra> kubuntu doesnt install gnome stuff by default
[01:01] <s0undt3ch> no, not gnome, but gnomew is a gtk2 app right?
[01:01] <ogra> so no gnome/gtk langpacks
[01:02] <s0undt3ch> ok, I'm installng the gnome packs
[01:02] <s0undt3ch> let's see
[01:02] <s0undt3ch> arrrg, stupid
[01:02] <s0undt3ch> ogra, Amaranth: I need those gnome packs
[01:03] <ogra> indeed :)
[01:03] <s0undt3ch> but while thinking gtk2 only one does not think of gnome
[01:03] <s0undt3ch> thats' misleading
[01:03] <Amaranth> basically if it's in main and uses gtk+ it's gnome and if it uses qt it's kde :)
[01:04] <s0undt3ch> got it
[01:04] <s0undt3ch> :)
[01:04] <ogra> you could also install language-support-pt
[01:04] <ogra> that solves all your probs
[01:04] <ogra> (installs all -pt stuff )
[01:04] <Amaranth> it's actually more like gnome == ubuntu-desktop, kde == kubuntu-desktop, and the base stuff is what they share
[01:05] <Amaranth> iirc, anyway
[01:06] <s0undt3ch> ogra: that's too many stuff, I like my locale in en_GB, I'm just developing an Irssi remote visual notifier and it's suposed to be translated ;)
[01:09] <ion_> sundtch: Such a notifier already exists.
[01:10] <s0undt3ch> ion_: tell me the name of that one :)
[01:10] <s0undt3ch> ion_: fnotify.pl?
[01:10] <ion_> sundtch: http://blog.ryanak.ca/archives/13, which i enhanced a bit: http://heh.fi/tmp/fnotify.pl http://heh.fi/tmp/irssi-notify
[01:11] <s0undt3ch> ion_: that requires ssh at a specified interval, mine is real-time ;)
[01:11] <ion_> Interval, huh? Its a constant connection.
[01:11] <s0undt3ch> http://irssinotifier.ufsoft.org
[01:12] <s0undt3ch> ion_: then I misread, and this is just an alternate one, with a GUI ;
[01:12] <s0undt3ch> )
[01:14] <s0undt3ch> ion_: by the way, mine was ispired by those posts ;)
[01:15] <s0undt3ch> bbl
[02:17] <wolfe> /wi/win 4
[02:17] <wolfe> oop
[03:51] <StevenK> infinity: Still living the LAX layover?
[04:10] <infinity> StevenK: I've set up a booth where I'm selling charicatures.
[04:13] <StevenK> infinity: Heh. Still trying to do bend libnss-db to my will.
[04:13] <infinity> StevenK: You're kidding...
[04:14] <infinity> StevenK: My opinion of your l33tness is rapidly declining, young man. :)
[04:14] <StevenK> infinity: I did have eight hours sleep, an hour commute and an hour of other work. :_)
[04:15] <StevenK> What is this $(mkinstalldirs) stuff, and why does it fail?
[04:16] <StevenK> infinity: Oh yes, and I daresay bug 27630 can be nailed shut too?
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 27630 in libcompface "libcompface: FTFBS - make up-to-dateness confusion on fast machines" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/27630
[04:17] <infinity> StevenK: haha.  Probably.  I need to clean my bug list. :)
[04:19] <StevenK> infinity: I removed a mkinstalldirs = ... line from po/Makefile.in.in, which allows the make to keep going, but then it tries to run '$(BUILD_PATH)/usr/share' and fails miserably.
[04:19] <infinity> Your autocrapfu is weak, I see.
[04:20] <infinity> Or, intltool, in that case... But I count it all as being in the same sinking boat.
[04:20] <StevenK> Yup. I've managed to avoid it all quite neatly...
[04:20] <infinity> I'd proffer slightly less sarcastic advice, but I can barely think straight enough to do menial tasks like delete spam from my inbox right now.
[04:21] <StevenK> Being 18 (?) hours into a layover will do that. :-/
[04:21] <infinity> 19 hours now!
[04:23] <StevenK> There isn't something like autoupdate (which I don't have much faith in), for intltool?
[04:24] <infinity> The mangling of intltool madness should happen automagically with all the am/ac business.
[04:24] <infinity> Assuming intltool itself is installed.
[04:25] <StevenK> I think it ends up in the Build-Depends..
[04:36] <infinity> Man, I get a kick out of "what do you do for a living?" ... "write operating systems."
[04:37] <infinity> Just had some very excited little man run off with an Ubnutu CD, saying "I'm going to install it right now!"
[04:37] <infinity> here's hoping he doesn't come back for tech support, in the state I'm in...
[04:38] <Amaranth> wow the 'intel' driver must be _really_ broken
[04:39] <Amaranth> either that or Matthew Nuzum has the worst luck ever
[04:58] <xtknight> i'm thinking of implementing (as part of the proposed "Windows" install for Ubuntu) a way of detecting supported devices on the user's pc.  who would be the best person to talk to about that?  (whether it's wanted, what language they need it in, etc)
[06:23] <StevenK> infinity: Oh my god, the thing builds.
[06:42] <Amaranth> Who wrote the Kubuntu tribe 3 wiki page?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: nixternal
[06:42] <Amaranth> nixternal: "With the merger from Beryl the Compiz team has released a KDE window decorator for Compiz." is incorrect :)
[06:42] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:42] <ajmitch> must be vista kicking in
[06:43] <Hobbsee> yeah, i thought that was slightly odd
[06:43] <nixternal> well then fix it..I don't follow that stuff, I was just told to make something up, and I did :)
[06:43] <Amaranth> kde-window-decorator has sort of existed in some form for awhile, i believe it become usable as of 0.4.0
[06:43] <nixternal> I went into the fx channel asking for help, and got nothing but a bunch of "i have no clue"
[06:44] <nixternal> well it just recently got uploaded into the repos maybe?
[06:44] <Amaranth> find me next time ;)
[06:44] <nixternal> you just messed up...I am going to bug you non-stop, like I do crimsun about audio
[06:44] <nixternal> ;)
[06:44] <Amaranth> hehe
[06:44] <crimsun> ...yeah, I was just going to say that.
[06:44] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[06:46] <Amaranth> hmm, looks like kde-window-decorator was in feisty too
[06:49] <infinity> StevenK: u r a jeneoos lol!
[06:49] <infinity> StevenK: 2 more hours until I'm in the air!
[06:50] <Hobbsee> infinity: put *down* the crackpipe now, then.
[06:50] <StevenK> Hobbsee: He's been at LAX for 22 hours due to a large layover
[06:51] <Hobbsee> these two statemetns are not mutually exclusive
[06:51] <Hobbsee> but that's nasty!
[06:52] <StevenK> infinity: Are you in any state to see a source packages or debdiff, or should I wait until you land and have slightly recovered?
[06:52] <infinity> StevenK: I'm not sure I understand the question.
[06:52] <infinity> StevenK: Or how this fancing blinking machine works.
[06:52] <StevenK> Heh
[06:53] <infinity> fancy, too
[06:53] <infinity> fancing!
[06:53] <StevenK> infinity: I have a non yada infested libnss-db package. Are you in any state to see the source package I have made?
[06:54] <infinity> StevenK: The above was sarcasm, I didn't need an explanation. :)
[06:54] <infinity> StevenK: But the point's still valid, I'm in no state.  Mail me, and I'll see it on Tuesday.
[06:55] <infinity> StevenK: (I land at 8am, go home, nap, then get some work on)
[06:57] <StevenK> Hrm. I wonder if the two Apache modules that are yada infested have been demoted.
[06:58] <infinity> Pretty sure they weren't in main.
[06:59] <infinity> -- gutsy/main build deps on yada:
[06:59] <infinity> libapache2-mod-auth-pam
[06:59] <infinity> libapache2-mod-auth-plain
[06:59] <infinity> libnss-db
[06:59] <infinity> I lied.
[06:59] <infinity> And I kinda like mod_auth_pam, too...
[07:00] <StevenK> thom said both have no way of working with Apache 2.2, either.
[07:00] <infinity> Oh, if they're broken, then it's a non-issue.
[07:01] <StevenK> Oh, so we demote, or break them?
[07:02] <infinity> mod_auth_pam works, according to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=394097
[07:02] <ubotu> Debian bug 394097 in libapache2-mod-auth-pam "libapache2-mod-auth-pam: doesnt work with Apache > 2.1" [Important,Open]
[07:02] <infinity> (Someone follows up with a working config)
[07:02] <StevenK> infinity: I had a naughty plan which was to upload yada with a binary package rename to 'broken-piece-of-crap' and then clean out the NBS list of yada.
[07:03] <infinity> There's a lot of stuff in universe that build-deps on yada.
[07:03] <StevenK> 24, at last count
[07:03] <infinity> Removing it form supported is good enough for me.
[07:04] <StevenK> Agreed. I'd at least like it out of main.
[07:06] <infinity> Alright, too lazy to plug in the laptop to charge it, so this is where I get off.
[07:06] <infinity> See you in however many hours it is from now until Tuesday wheneverish.
[07:08] <StevenK> infinity: Enjoy
[08:07] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[08:07] <pitti> Good morning
[08:07] <pitti> hey StevenK
[08:09] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[08:09] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:10] <Hobbsee> pitti: how was your weekend?
[08:11] <pitti> Hobbsee: great! Katie Melua concert, ice cream, barbecue, and some wedddin preps
[08:11] <pitti> Hobbsee: how was your's?
[08:11] <Hobbsee> nice!  :)
[08:12] <Hobbsee> pitti: good...had a birthday, have my grandmother over here on a holiday at the moment.  was fun
[08:13] <Hobbsee> oh, and fixed adept
[08:25] <doko> good morning
[08:25] <pitti> hey doko
[08:25] <Hobbsee> morning doko!
[08:26] <mvo> hey doko
[08:26] <Hobbsee> argh!!!  it's mvo!!!!
[08:27] <pitti> mvo: do you know who is responsible for opera on archive.c.c?
[08:27] <Hobbsee> pitti: i doubt anyone is, as they havent hired someone for it yet
[08:27] <Hobbsee> as in, the job is still listed
[08:27] <mvo> pitti: the last update done by etienneg, but I'm not sure if he is not too busy currently
[08:27] <mvo> pitti: the 9.22 release should go in asap I guess?
[08:28] <pitti> mvo: right, I just got a ping about it
[08:28] <mvo> pitti: I can have a look in a bit
[08:29] <pitti> mvo: I'll mail Etienne and CC Fabio and you, ok?
[08:30] <mvo> pitti: yes
[08:40] <mvo> pitti: I answered to opera now and CCed you. I prepare a new version now
[08:40] <pitti> mvo: great, thanks!
[08:53] <StevenK> pitti: Would you mind booting gmp out of NEW, it should halve libgmpxx4's NBS linecount
[08:54] <saispo> anyone use rt61 driver here ? i can't get working wpa with it
[08:58] <Hobbsee> oh no, it's Toadstool!
[08:59] <pitti> StevenK: done
[09:00] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks
[09:01] <StevenK> Just before a publisher run too, excellent.
[09:18] <seb128> morning
[09:21] <seb128> Hobbsee: ping? I don't get your gnome-panel change, the icon cache is generated during the installation
[09:22] <Hobbsee> seb128: yes, i think i mixed my error messages, and screwed it up.  i thought it was the debhelper thing again, so just needed a rebuild, as ooo did :(
[09:22] <Hobbsee> seb128: apologies :(
[09:22] <Hobbsee> morning, btw
[09:23] <Hobbsee> seb128: then again, it being only a rebuild, it shouldnt have broken anything, as it doesnt seem to have a frankenstinean build system, like apt.
[09:23] <Hobbsee> (which is why i didnt ask you to check it first_
[09:23] <Hobbsee> * )
[09:23] <seb128> k
[09:24] <seb128> feel free to drop a mail if you have a question and I'm not on IRC next time
[09:24] <seb128> but right, the upload doesn't break anything, it's just of no use ;)
[09:24] <seb128> hey carlos!
[09:25] <carlos> seb128: hey seb!
[09:25] <Hobbsee> seb128: sure
[09:25] <seb128> carlos: had a nice end of GUADEC and travel back to Spain?
[09:25] <Hobbsee> evand: ping
[09:25] <seb128> Hobbsee: what was the bug about BTW? maybe I know how to fix it ;)
[09:26] <seb128> you mentioned no LP number in the changelog
[09:26] <xtknight> seb128, did you get a chance to look at Bug 60258 ?
[09:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 60258 in gnome-art "Ruby crashes while using gnome-art-manager" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60258
[09:26] <Hobbsee> seb128: let me see...it was a report on irc.  *grabs logs*
[09:26] <carlos> seb128: yeah, we had a delayed flight so I didn't arrive home until 4:00 AM (instead of 2:00AM) but other than that... :-)
[09:26] <seb128> xtknight: I didn't look at much bugs recently, I was travelling for 2 weeks and I've back to work on my desktop for 10 minutes
[09:26] <xtknight> seb128, oh that would explain it :)
[09:27] <xtknight> no hurry just wondered
[09:27] <seb128> s/'ve back/'m back
[09:27] <Hobbsee> seb128: http://pastebin.com/m212262c9
[09:27] <seb128> xtknight: well, if I don't comment on a bug that's usually that I didn't look at it ;)
[09:27] <Hobbsee> seb128: was the guy's pastebin
[09:27] <xtknight> hah
[09:28] <Hobbsee> seb128: (feisty --> gutsy upgrade)
[09:28] <Hobbsee> seb128: and there was no bug number, due to it not being filed as a bug :)
[09:28] <seb128> Hobbsee: I think I know what's creating the problem, I would need informations on the setup though, who is the guy?
[09:28] <Zic> hmm => question about metacity-theme in Gutsy : Is it normal that the control bar is slimmer than Feisty ?
[09:28] <seb128> Hobbsee: those are usually created by packages not installing icons correctly
[09:29] <seb128> or by people installing some out of the packaging system
[09:29] <Hobbsee> seb128: tatters
[09:29] <Zic> I can see it very well in a Plasma of 107cm :]
[09:29] <Hobbsee> seb128: right
[09:29] <seb128> would be interesting to know if a package is b0rked or if he installed something out of the packaging system
[09:29] <Hobbsee> indeed
[09:30] <Hobbsee> [17:29]  [Notice]  -SeenServ- I last saw tatters<EMAIL_ADDRESS>14h 6m 45s ago, quiting: "Leaving."
[09:30] <seb128> anyway he's not on the chan, let's him file a bug if he wants his problem fixed
[09:31] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[09:33] <mvo> could anyone with edgy (or a edgy VM) do a quick install/run test for http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/opera_9.22-20070716.6edgy1_i386.deb ?
[09:33] <Hobbsee> ...edgy?
[09:33] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you know, 6.10. :-)
[09:33] <Mithrandir> I have servers with edgy on them
[09:34] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: but that's...like...old!
[09:34] <StevenK> I have a chroot here, hold on.
[09:34] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: based on the fact that i cant even remember thelast time i had an edgy install, let alone used it for daily use...
[09:35] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I have servers with dapper on them too. :-P
[09:35] <Mithrandir> I think we got rid of breezy though
[09:35] <Hobbsee> yeah, but that's LTS, so it's a bit mroe expected
[09:35] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:35] <StevenK> mvo: Downloading it now.
[09:36] <mvo> StevenK: cool, thanks a lot!
[09:36] <Mithrandir> except it doesn't support the SAS controller in a couple of the machines, so dapper's not really an option there.
[09:36] <Hobbsee> dapper doesnt support this machine.
[09:38] <StevenK> mvo: Looks okay to me
[09:38] <mvo> StevenK: thanks, it looks fine in my vm as well, I will upload now
[09:59] <mvo> could someone with feisty (or feisty VM) check http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/opera_9.22-20070716.6feisty1_i386.deb please?
[10:05] <asac> pitti: please give back ffox on sparc.
[10:08] <pitti> asac: done
[10:08] <pitti> asac: good morning
[10:08] <asac> pitti: rock
[10:08] <mvo> noone here with feisty and a bit of time to test  http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/opera_9.22-20070716.6feisty1_i386.deb ?
[10:08] <asac> pitti: morning!
[10:08] <mvo> hey asac!
[10:09] <asac> hey mvo ... how was your holiday ;)
[10:09] <asac> mvo: oh wait ;)
[10:09] <mvo> asac: guadec you mean? very good!
[10:09] <asac> yeah
[10:09] <pitti> asac: btw, would it be possible to create midbrowser like epiphany? i. e. building on top of the firefox engine, but having a more lightweight UI, use gettext, etc.?
[10:09] <asac> only thing i heard was the wifi was bad
[10:10] <asac> mvo: is that the truth?
[10:10] <asac> pitti: the idea is to have xul based browser
[10:10] <mvo> asac: the talks were very good and it was great meeting so many upstream people. but the wifi was terrible
[10:11] <asac> pitti: so things like extensions et al can be as easily written as for firefox
[10:11] <pitti> asac: so if xulrunner is the future, and we have to put another mozilla copy into main anyway, shouldn't we rather put xulrunner into main then?
[10:11] <Chipzz> mvo: it's not easy to offer good wifi with lots of people in a small area
[10:11] <asac> pitti: xulrunner is not yet ready ... we can start when firefox 3 is out
[10:11] <asac> pitti: thats what I am talking about ;)
[10:12] <pitti> asac: so xulrunner wouldn't even work for the midbrowser project?
[10:12] <mvo> Chipzz: yeah, I understand that. I sounded too negative, its good that we had network, but it was difficult to get on it quite often :)
[10:12] <asac> pitti: yes and no ... it would be too hacky for now
[10:13] <asac> pitti: xulrunner on 1.8.0.x branch is just not ready to run full xul apps
[10:13] <asac> 1.8.x branch i mean
[10:13] <Chipzz> mvo: just mentioning it because I have first-hand experience with just that ;)
[10:13] <Chipzz> (providing wi-fi in small area with lots of ppl)
[10:13] <asac> pitti: xulrunner was never ment to be released from that branch ... it was mike who brought this package up
[10:13] <mvo> Chipzz: fosdem? that was quite good this year :)
[10:13] <Chipzz> mvo: idd :)
[10:14] <Chipzz> because we had some professional grade equipment from greenpeace ;)
[10:14] <asac> pitti: and it works for gtkmozembed ... and basic chrome apps.
[10:14] <Chipzz> (plus a shitload of linksys'es ;)
[10:15] <asac> pitti: my primary goal for gutsy+1 is to make the duplicate sources go away
[10:15] <asac> pitti: i probably hate it more than you do ;)
[10:16] <pitti> asac: yeah, for the LTS this is quite important indeed
[10:18] <asac> hmmm sparc failed again with libgnomeui-dev not installable
[10:18] <asac> seb128: ^^^ ?
[10:18] <asac> seb128: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8547045/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-sparc.firefox_<IP_ADDRESS>%2B2-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:18] <seb128> asac: looking
[10:19] <seb128> I don't know
[10:19] <seb128> would need a login on a gutsy sparc
[10:19] <asac> doko: ?
[10:19] <seb128> to try to apt-get install packages and figure which one is blocking
[10:20] <doko> asac: !
[10:20] <asac> doko: can you try?
[10:20] <doko> asac: try what?
[10:20] <asac> doko: libgnomeui-dev not installable ....
[10:20] <asac> on sparc
[10:20] <asac> < seb128> would need a login on a gutsy sparc
[10:21] <doko> asac: do you have access to faure in the DC?
[10:21] <asac> doko: i have no idea :) ... but I doubt that I can install anything
[10:22] <seb128> doko: you can't apt-get install in the chroots though, can you?
[10:22] <doko> asac: ohh, then I can fix the xul dependency bullshit for gutsy+1 :-)
[10:22] <asac> doko: i talked to mike
[10:23] <asac> doko: the reason is that -common contains lots of xul ...which might break things
[10:23] <asac> if you soften the dependencies
[10:23] <doko> seb128: no, trying now on another machine
[10:24] <seb128> mvo: is there a way to run a "apt-get install -s package" with a normal user?
[10:24] <doko> asac: sorry, still don't get it, that this stuff changes for a) subsubminor versions, b) for debian release numbers
[10:24] <doko> asac: but I may consider doing the same for GCC ;-P
[10:24] <asac> doko: new upstream releases
[10:24] <asac> doko: can break
[10:24] <asac> doko: new debian uploads should be fixed now according to mike
[10:25] <doko> asac: so why does he refuse it to fix it for a) and b)?
[10:25] <asac> for b) it should be fixed
[10:25] <asac> for a) its too hard to track
[10:25] <asac> which i agree 50%
[10:25] <mvo> seb128: yes -o Debug::NoLocking=true
[10:26] <seb128> mvo: you are a star ;)
[10:26] <doko> asac: maintaining the gcc/gcj/gnat split is hard as well. so this is not an argument
[10:27] <seb128> hum, libgnomeui-dev is already installed on faure so it doesn't work there
[10:28] <doko> seb128: same for me, so what should be removed?
[10:28] <asac> doko: personally i would do it as a) is unlikely to break anything imo.
[10:28] <asac> doko: but i agree that fixing the archive would fix things once for everyone
[10:28] <seb128> doko: well, asac tries to figure why libgnomeui-dev is not installable on sparc, having a clean chroot or a pbuilder login to try to install it would be nice
[10:30] <doko> seb128: libgnomecanvas seems to be out of date
[10:30] <seb128> looking
[10:31] <asac> seb128: yes " gutsy sparc   Failed to build"
[10:31] <seb128>   libgail-dev: Depends: libgnomecanvas2-dev (>= 2.4.0) but it is not going to be installed
[10:32] <asac> yes ... looks like a depend circle?
[10:32] <seb128> circular depends, not good
[10:33] <seb128> brb, trying the new glib2.0 update
[10:59] <asac> seb128: Changes in GAIL 1.19.5 ... - Move gailcanvas to gnomecanvas and remove gnomecanvas dependence [#363103]  (Li Yuan).
[10:59] <seb128> cool
[11:01] <mvo> seb128: is bugzilla.gnome.org down?
[11:02] <asac> seb128: me might have to go through build-rdepends though
[11:02] <seb128> mvo: looks like
[11:02] <seb128> asac: why?
[11:02] <Amaranth> mvo: i hope luis didn't break it again
[11:02] <Amaranth> :P
[11:05] <asac> seb128: because there might be packages that miss build-depends on libgnomecanvas2-dev if we drop that from libgail-dev too now?
[11:06] <seb128> they should not
[11:06] <seb128> packages should not rely on indirect depends, if they use a lib they should Build-Depends on it
[11:06] <asac> yes ... ok lets hope then
[11:06] <asac> seb128: you want me to push that update?
[11:07] <seb128> what update? you mean the Depends change?
[11:07] <seb128> go for it, usually dholbach takes care for the a11y stack but he's not around
[11:08] <asac> seb128: ok
[11:12] <asac> seb128: done
[11:12] <seb128> danke
[11:27] <buxy> do people know if cjwatson is on vacation ?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> buxy: afaik, he's not.
[11:28] <buxy> I haven't managed to have a response from him since more than a week... yet I've seen him upload stuff
[11:28] <Mithrandir> I think he's just been busy.
[11:29] <buxy> Mithrandir: he told me he had a copy of the dpkg arch repository and I just wanted him to make it available to me :)
[11:29] <cjwatson> sorry, I'll get back to you in a moment, just trying to look up the details
[11:29] <cjwatson> I have a nasty suspicion that a mere checkout may not be as useful as I had thought
[11:30] <buxy> yes, most people only have a checkout
[11:30] <buxy> just make it available, I'll check for you if there's history in your files or not
[11:34] <thom> infinity: that hack solution for mod_auth_pam looks like a really bad idea
[12:08] <iwj> Yikes.  cadmium's disk filled up and I have 1140 mails to tell me about it.
[12:12] <Amaranth> bryce: can you sync xserver-xorg-video-ati from experimental? it fixes Xv with Composite (video with compiz)
[12:14] <pitti> Amaranth: please file a sync request bug
[12:15] <Amaranth> hmm, never done one of those
[12:20] <seb128> Amaranth: are you requesting a sync or asking bryce if that's ok to do one?
[12:20] <iwj> Amaranth: Were you asking Bryce for advice whether the sync ...
[12:20] <iwj> what seb128 said.
[12:20] <Amaranth> both, i guess
[12:21] <Amaranth> if it's ok to do one someone else would have to do it :)
[12:21] <iwj> Right, then bryce would be the person to ask I think.
[12:21] <seb128> k, let's wait for bryce reply before filling the bug then
[12:27] <cjwatson> buxy: ok, gluck:~cjwatson/public_html/archives/ and gluck:~cjwatson/public_html/bzr/mvo/ is the best I've been able to dig up, I'm afraid. It's not at all complete but it may help you reinstate a little bit more of the history.
[12:27] <mvo> buxy: I send you a copy of my old checkout a while ago, but I guess that was not very helpful?
[12:28] <buxy> mvo: well a checkout without history isn't very useful, in that case I prefer creating fake history with archives of dpkg uploads (i have most of them from that period)
[12:36] <cjwatson> unfortunately I cleared out my arch revlib a while back
[12:36] <Amaranth> asac: why do you keep moving bug 113086 back to compiz?
[12:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113086 in firefox "Enabling Desktop Effects, some part of firefox and thunderbird windows are black for few seconds when I deminimize them." [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113086
[12:36] <cjwatson> upon realising that between it and my arch cache there were 1.5 million files in there
[12:37] <buxy> ouch, yeah, arch is expensive in files :)
[12:38] <buxy> cjwatson: what are the bzr repo supposed to be? conversion of old arch repo into bzr?
[12:38] <cjwatson> buxy: a branch from that, I think. found it in mvo's home directory ... ;-)
[12:39] <cjwatson> buxy: I take it you've tried Manoj already?
[12:39] <asac> Amaranth: i want compiz people to investigate
[12:39] <asac> Amaranth: i don't see that its firefox
[12:39] <Amaranth> i'm compiz people ;)
[12:39] <buxy> cjwatson: yes, although he has never formally replied to my email, I need to pester him a bit
[12:39] <asac> Amaranth: cool ... figure out why it happens in compiz while it doesn't without :)
[12:39] <cjwatson> the bzr one may not be useful; I just thought the base might provide another interesting point of history
[12:40] <buxy> during debconf he told me he might have it on his backup server but could only check after his vacation
[12:40] <cjwatson> buxy: or djpig?
[12:40] <Amaranth> asac: because lack of support for _NET_WM_SYNC_REQUEST in firefox means compiz doesn't know when the window is ready to be displayed
[12:40] <cjwatson> I assume you've tried him already since he's current dpkg team
[12:41] <buxy> cjwatson: djpig hasn't, he's still active in dpkg development and he's involved in that ;)
[12:41] <buxy> right
[12:41] <asac> Amaranth: what does that mean? what shall gecko do then?
[12:43] <Amaranth> asac: trying to find a clear example of how to implement it
[12:44] <asac> Amaranth: anyway ... compiz shouldn't break applications that don't implement that, right?
[12:44] <Amaranth> asac: it doesn't 'break'
[12:44] <Amaranth> you just get a black window during minimize/restore
[12:44] <Amaranth> because compiz does the animation before the window is ready (since the window doesn't tell compiz when it's ready)
[12:45] <asac> Amaranth: hmmm ... can't compiz do better? e.g. detect if that feature is supported and otherwise fallback to something else?
[12:45] <Amaranth> fallback to what?
[12:45] <asac> i am not into this ... but my guess would be to fallback to "no animation" :)
[12:46] <Amaranth> that'd look pretty weird
[12:46] <Amaranth> weirder than having a black window for the 1/4 second the animation is running
[12:47] <Amaranth> hrm, _NET_WM_SYNC_REQUEST looks hard :p
[12:48] <asac> Amaranth: why can't compiz fall back to something like what metacity does?
[12:48] <Amaranth> in that case it's a bug against compiz-fusion-plugins-main but the compiz-fusion guys will just tell you to fix firefox :P
[12:49] <asac> thats ignorance imo ... but anyway ... at least drop the needed infos to the upstream bug please
[12:49] <asac> i can then confirm it ... so upstream devs will at least take a look at it
[12:49] <Amaranth> err, it already has the needed info
[12:49] <asac> Amaranth: do you have bug id at hand again?
[12:49] <Amaranth> asac: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=378293
[12:49] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 378293 in General "Black regions during unminimizing/unshading/opening Firefox/Thunderbird with Compiz" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[12:50] <Amaranth> the link to the mailing list post should explain enough
[12:54] <cjwatson> soren: an interesting issue has come up with apparmor-utils in standard
[12:54] <asac> Amaranth: I confirmed that bug ... but honestly, without any compiz people stepping in I doubt that it will be fixed in near future
[12:54] <Amaranth> asac: the only implementation of _NET_WM_SYNC_REQUEST i can point you to is in gtk+
[12:54] <Amaranth> which i suppose you could use?
[12:54] <cjwatson> soren: apparmor-utils Depends: apparmor Depends: apparmor-modules, the effect of which is to make the archive think that a kernel package (it's picked -386) needs to be promoted to Priority: standard
[12:54] <Amaranth> you can drive it manually
[12:55] <asac> Amaranth: so is every non-gtk application broken like firefox for now?
[12:55] <Amaranth> no, Qt stuff works too
[12:55] <Amaranth> firefox uses gtk+, doesn't it?
[12:55] <pitti> cjwatson: now that we have the modules in the default kernel, we can drop that dependency IMHO
[12:55] <cjwatson> soren: I'd much rather that no particular kernel package was Priority: standard. Can we drop that Depends: apparmor-modules to Recommends?
[12:55] <asac> Amaranth: firefox uses gdk to draw its widgets
[12:55] <Amaranth> asac: right
[12:55] <Amaranth> asac: so you can use this :)
[12:55] <asac> Amaranth: if you come up with the way gtk does it we can probably fix it
[12:56] <Amaranth> you just have to drive it manually
[12:56] <cjwatson> pitti: the only use I can see for it is if the kernel/userspace API changes
[12:56] <asac> Amaranth: do you know how I can drive it with gdk means?
[12:56] <Amaranth> hold on
[12:57] <asac> Amaranth: please drop that infos to upstream bug ... and let me know ... I will then look how this might be adapted to gecko
[12:57] <Amaranth> asac: eh, i don't have an account on that bugzilla
[12:57] <Amaranth> asac: it's http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gdk/gdk-Windows.html#gdk-window-enable-synchronized-configure
[12:59] <Amaranth> asac: if you use that compiz will wait until you call gdk_window_configure_finished to paint
[12:59] <asac> Amaranth: hmmm i somehow don't see when I should call finished
[01:00] <Amaranth> asac: when firefox has finished handling "Configure events"
[01:00] <Amaranth> i guess once it has the window drawn
[01:00] <Amaranth> either on map or resize
[01:01] <Amaranth> asac: apparently it also helps with flicker on resize for regular WMs too
[01:06] <bSON> seb128: are you involved in the CompositeByDefault spec?
[01:06] <seb128> bSON: yes
[01:06] <seb128> why
[01:06] <seb128> ?
[01:07] <Amaranth> bSON: what's up?
[01:08] <bSON> seb128: i was wondering where it is decided which settings are chosen for the compiz plugins. the spec only lists which plugins should be enabled, not how they should be configured
[01:08] <bSON> hello Amaranth
[01:09] <Amaranth> bSON: The guiding principle and 'sleek and unobstrusive'
[01:09] <Amaranth> Nice to look at but not particularly eye catching or annoying
[01:10] <soren> cjwatson: Mathiaz is doing apparmour.. I haven't looked at it very much.
[01:11] <seb128> bSON: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompizTeam
[01:11] <seb128> bSON: changes to do are listed there
[01:11] <bSON> Amaranth: that's good, but i find it a bit annoying that the last package version's animation settings where pretty miuch modeled after windows vista
[01:11] <bSON> seb128: thanks
[01:11] <Amaranth> bSON: How do you mean?
[01:11] <seb128> bSON: animations didn't change, we use the zoom one
[01:12] <bSON> strange, they changed when i last updated....
[01:12] <seb128> looks like a local bug then
[01:12] <asac_> Amaranth: was offline
[01:12] <Amaranth> The animations we use have basically existed since the original compiz
[01:12] <Amaranth> except the open/close animations, those are new
[01:12] <Amaranth> so not copied from vista ;)
[01:13] <bSON> then it must be a bug. i was already shocked ;)
[01:13] <seb128> bSON: what sort of animation do you have?
[01:13] <StevenK> Amaranth: I don't recall ever seeing Vista with wobbly windows.
[01:13] <Amaranth> asac_: you just need to call gdk_window_configure_finished after you're done drawing on map or resize
[01:14] <Amaranth> StevenK: that's not on by default?
[01:14] <bSON> seb128: i don't know the create animation's name any more, but close animation was glide
[01:14] <cjwatson> soren: ok, thanks
[01:14] <Amaranth> bSON: yeah, glide
[01:14] <Amaranth> those have been the defaults for over a month
[01:14] <bSON> which looks just like vista
[01:14] <Amaranth> does it? never seen vista
[01:14] <seb128> I've not tried vista yet
[01:14] <StevenK> Amaranth: Not on the Vista machine I've used. Then again, its graphics card is a complete PoS. :-)
[01:14] <Amaranth> my card isn't powerful enough :P
[01:14] <bSON> i tried a beta
[01:15] <Amaranth> which is pretty sad, it's a GeForce Go 7400, haven't found a modern game it won't play at least decently :)
[01:15] <bSON> well the problem is not that it looks like vista naturally, but for my taste that animation is not _that_ unobstrusive. maybe it just has to be a tad faster, i don't know
[01:16] <seb128> what animations do you have a problem with?
[01:17] <soren> cjwatson: What are the priorities used for anyway?
[01:17] <bSON> seb128: the glide animation. i think it gets nervewrecking after a while
[01:17] <StevenK> I found the default animations in Tribe 2 (not tried Tribe 3 yet) subtle and unobstrusive.
[01:17] <Amaranth> bSON: it's already so fast i don't even see the actual animation
[01:17] <Amaranth> bSON: just a sort of blur and i have my window
[01:17] <bSON> Amaranth: i mean close
[01:17] <soren> cjwatson: I know that one can rely on required and essential to be installed, but the others?
[01:18] <StevenK> Close is fade, I thought
[01:18] <Amaranth> bSON: close too, but less so
[01:18] <Amaranth> close is glide 2
[01:18] <bSON> is there a way to go back to ubtuntu default setttings?
[01:18] <Amaranth> it folds the window out away from you
[01:18] <Amaranth> bSON: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz
[01:18] <bSON> thanks
[01:19] <Amaranth> but if you can really get annoyed by 2/10 of a second of animation of any kind i'm impressed
[01:19] <Amaranth> i can barely even see it :)
[01:19] <bSON> Amaranth: i don't have a glide, but a zoom-in effect for closing now
[01:19] <bSON> maybe i'm too sensible ;)
[01:19] <StevenK> Actually, I did a have a bug about compiz.
[01:20] <StevenK> s/did a/did/
[01:20] <StevenK> The alt-tab window switcher in metacity talks if orca is running. compiz under Feisty the window switcher doesn't, does the one Gutsy talk?
[01:21] <cjwatson> soren: Priority: standard is only really relevant in itself to dselect users, but the same comments apply to the standard task which is installed by pkgsel
[01:21] <bSON> Amaranth: i think it's not particularly unobstrusive if closed windows jump at you as they do for me now after usettin
[01:21] <Amaranth> StevenK: ugh, don't want to turn on a11y :P
[01:21] <cjwatson> soren: required and important correspond to the two stages of debootstrap
[01:22] <cjwatson> soren: optional and extra are largely undistinguished in Ubuntu
[01:22] <Amaranth> StevenK: probably not though, compiz just draws the text using cairo afaik
[01:23] <StevenK> Amaranth: Ah. Shall I file a bug? My (visually impaired) boss didn't mind the animations and wobbly windows, but not talking when alt-tab'ing is a showstopper, and it could be considered a regression, given it may be on.
[01:24] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:24] <Amaranth> hopefully just using pango will be enough to fix it
[01:24] <StevenK> Amaranth: Or shall I be lazy and trust you to remember? :-)
[01:24] <Amaranth> heh
[01:24] <Amaranth> i'll forget
[01:24] <ion_> talk?
[01:24] <Amaranth> file a bug, mark it triaged and high
[01:25] <StevenK> ion_: Speak the title of window that will be switched to.
[01:25] <Amaranth> if using pango is enough i can just snag the cairo context out of pango and not have to redo a lot of code
[01:25] <StevenK> Amaranth: Against compiz?
[01:25] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:26] <StevenK> Oooer, bug 91780 . That's particularly annoying
[01:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91780 in compiz "Compiz's corner resize grabbers are difficult to get hold of" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91780
[01:26] <Amaranth> hopefully the kubuntu guys won't hurt me for making compiz-plugins depend on pango :)
[01:27] <soren> cjwatson: I see. Thanks for clarifying.
[01:27] <bSON> Amaranth: after running your command, the settings shown by ccsm and those used don't match anymore
[01:27] <Riddell> Amaranth: why does it need to do that?
[01:27] <Amaranth> Riddell: a11y, apparently
[01:27] <Amaranth> well, and for non-crappy text rendering
[01:28] <cjwatson> $ wget -q -O- http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/kubuntu-gutsy/desktop | grep ^libpango
[01:28] <cjwatson> libpango1.0-0                    | pango1.0                         | libgtk2.0-0                     | Ubuntu Desktop Team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>                       |          350176 |             888
[01:28] <cjwatson> libpango1.0-common               | pango1.0                         | libpango1.0-0                   | Ubuntu Desktop Team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>                       |            6666 |             124
[01:28] <cjwatson> so it shouldn't make any difference to Kubuntu
[01:28] <Amaranth> no problem then :)
[01:28] <Riddell> yeah, amarok brings it in anyway
[01:28] <Amaranth> amarok? weird
[01:28] <Riddell> for libgpod
[01:29] <Amaranth> ah, dang those kids and their ipods
[01:29] <Riddell> adds a load of stuff to the CD we wouldn't otherwise need
[01:29] <Amaranth> bSON: bug in ccsm, i guess
[01:30] <StevenK> Amaranth: Bug filed. bug 127705
[01:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127705 in compiz "compiz doesn't "talk" when switching windows" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127705
[01:30] <bSON> Amaranth: is it right that create animation = glide1 and close animation = glide2 ?
[01:30] <Amaranth> bSON: yes
[01:30] <bSON> ok
[01:30] <StevenK> Amaranth: Importance changed like you asked, sorry.
[01:33] <bSON> seb128, Amaranth: i would propose zoom for window creation because it nicely guides the user's focus without being obtrusive imo
[01:33] <bSON> afk
[01:33] <Amaranth> bSON: glide 1 looks like a weird zoom at the speed we have it running
[01:42] <asac> lunch
[02:16] <pitti> cjwatson: can you please have a quick look at bug 33249? from Keybuk's comment it sounds like hw-detect should defer modprobing usb-storage until after probing for the fixed disks; but is that really that deterministic in dapper?
[02:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 33249 in hw-detect "root partition once /dev/sdi1 then /dev/sda1" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/33249
[02:17] <pitti> cjwatson: i. e. will booting the installed system always initialize the modules for the fixed disks first?
[02:17] <pitti> cjwatson: (this might be an opportunity for the dapper point release)
[02:26] <asac> Hi Hobbsee
[02:27] <Hobbsee> heya asac :)
[02:34] <xxxxx1> morning all!
[03:00] <pitti> mvo: I added a question to bug 47044, can you please have a look?
[03:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 47044 in apt "apt cant work with disable proxy" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47044
[03:00] <Hobbsee> if you dont like the switch in shell, please dont complain about it a full *year* after it's been discussed and implemented.
[03:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: you mean /bin/sh -> dash?
[03:01] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah
[03:02] <Hobbsee> whinging about bash not being used, so that the bash scripts arent compatible, and it needs to be bash so it can work on all distros, and bsd as well
[03:02] <broonie> Needs bash so it can work on all distros? Interesting...
[03:02] <Hobbsee> [22:59]  <slougi> it's just that i want those scripts to work as widely as possible
[03:03] <Hobbsee> [23:00]  <slougi> currently the BSD's work, solaris works, redhat-derived stuff works, *buntu is broken ;)
[03:03] <Hobbsee> [22:55]  <slougi> biggest annoyance is that the following breaks: if [ "${dirname:0:1}" != "/" ] ; <-- afaik this is actually standard usage
[03:03] <Hobbsee> [22:56]  <slougi> and the above is standard POSIX afaik
[03:03] <Mithrandir> uh, that's quite special, since the BSDs generally have strict-ish /bin/sh-s
[03:03] <broonie> *Solaris* works. Ah, they're not being completely unreasonable.
[03:04] <StevenK> That is not standard POSIX.
[03:04] <evand> Hobbsee: pong
[03:04] <Hobbsee> evand: did you get my mail?  :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> aparently it's an init script, so...
[03:04] <StevenK> ${variable} will work, ${variable:0} and similar are bashisms
[03:04] <evand> Hobbsee: indeed, reading it now
[03:05] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I wonder, given that line if they're trying to determine the directory name is a symlink. If so, there are better ways. :-)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: no idea, ask
[03:07] <slougi> yeah about the dash thing, i hope it's ok to bring it up here?
[03:10] <IntuitiveNipple> Are there any ACPI suspend gurus in the Ubuntu devs?
[03:10] <Mithrandir> slougi: don't ask to ask. :-)
[03:10] <Hobbsee> IntuitiveNipple: mjg59 iirc
[03:10] <IntuitiveNipple> Hobbsee: thanks... I'll keep an eye out
[03:11] <slougi> Mithrandir: have bad experiences from some other distro devel chans ;)
[03:12] <Mithrandir> slougi: worst case, we tell you something is offtopic here and direct you to some other place.
[03:12] <cjwatson> slougi: I'd suggest this portable construct instead:
[03:12] <Mithrandir> slougi: what is it you're really trying to do?
[03:12] <slougi> right =)
[03:12] <cjwatson> case $dirname in
[03:12] <slougi> yeah one second
[03:12] <cjwatson>     /*) ;;
[03:12] <cjwatson>     *) do whatever you wanted ;;
[03:12] <cjwatson> esac
[03:12] <ion_> case "$dirname" in
[03:12] <cjwatson> assuming I've read you correctly
[03:13] <cjwatson> ion_: not necessary.
[03:13] <ion_> Im paranoid about spaces in variables. :-)
[03:13] <cjwatson> you're mistaken in the case of "case"
[03:13] <ion_> Alright, thanks.
[03:13] <cjwatson> you're right to be paranoid in general
[03:13] <slougi> we're using a shell script similar to this: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/deployment-x11.html#creating-the-application-package
[03:13] <cjwatson> $ foo='foo bar'
[03:13] <cjwatson> $ case $foo in foo*) echo yes ;; esac
[03:13] <cjwatson> yes
[03:14] <slougi> basically the check for / breaks
[03:14] <cjwatson> slougi: unfortunately Trolltech made use of a non-portable construct there. See my alternative suggestion above. See also http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_06_02 for the list of things similar to that that you can actually do.
[03:15] <slougi> yeah i was assured by one of the trolltech support guys that that is posix ;) guess not
[03:15] <cjwatson> the reference I gave is POSIX; I'd challenge them to provide a reference :-)
[03:15] <slougi> yeah i just looked there as well =)
[03:15] <slougi> thanks, i'll switch to the alternative syntax
[03:16] <Mithrandir> you could also tell them to use "$@", not $* as the latter splits arguments.
[03:16] <cjwatson> that shell snippet is in general pretty bad
[03:17] <slougi> cjwatson: yeah, that one line is basically all that is left of that example
[03:18] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/trolltech.sh
[03:19] <cjwatson> untested, but I think that's a faithful translation
[03:19] <slougi> pretty much, yes
[03:19] <slougi> why not send it to the trolls?
[03:20] <cjwatson> will do
[03:20] <slougi> cjwatson: also i guess you won't mind if i use that ;)
[03:20] <cjwatson> not at all
[03:20] <slougi> cheers
[03:20] <StevenK> cjwatson: It passes a sh -n test
[03:20] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: nope ...
[03:21] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ah.  thought you had.  no idea why
[03:23] <cjwatson> I suppose I should use `` rather than $() to be portable to truly ancient shells
[03:23] <Mithrandir> `` vs $() is pre-posix, though
[03:23] <cjwatson> according to 'info autoconf', Solaris 10's /bin/sh doesn't support $()
[03:23] <cjwatson> (yes, it's pre-POSIX)
[03:24] <cjwatson> I'll skip the use of ${...%...} too in that case
[03:24] <Mithrandir> welcome to this century?
[03:24] <pitti> carlos: ah, seems that your gutsy base refreshment finally succeeded :)
[03:25] <pitti> carlos: are the delta tarballs now created against 20070722?
[03:25] <pitti> carlos: I did not build any gutsy updates since the tribe
[03:25] <slougi> btw, i have to say to all that gutsy is turning out pretty nice, it's been completely bug free for me so far (upgraded from feisty 2 weeks ago). Keep up the good work :)
[03:26] <slougi> and thanks for the shell help
[03:26] <cjwatson> ion_: btw, 'info autoconf' mentions the first-argument-of-case special case in its "Shell Substitutions" node
[03:28] <StevenK> pitti: A few things can be NBS'd after this coming publisher run if you want me to list them
[03:28] <pitti> StevenK: oh, please; shall I refresh the list in 15 minutes?
[03:30] <ion_> cjwatson: Ok, thanks.
[03:36] <TheMuso> ~/aw Away
[03:47] <StevenK> pitti: Sorry, was afk. It looks like xen-hypervisor-3.1-{amd64,i386}, libode0c2 and libgmpxx4 can all go.
[03:47] <pitti> StevenK: then xen hypervisor? why's that?
[03:49] <StevenK> pitti: It's listed in NBS
[03:49] <pitti> StevenK: it's probably FTBFS or so
[03:51] <asac> Amaranth: do you have some spare cycles to test a patch for firefox+compiz?
[03:51] <StevenK> pitti: Ah
[03:52] <StevenK> pitti: In that case, kill libode0c2 and libgmpxx4
[03:52] <asac> Amaranth: i cannot test, but added these gdk_ calls to places that might be suitable.
[03:58] <StevenK> pitti: Actually, xen-hypervisor-3.1-{amd64,i386} really is NBS. xen-3.1 builds xen-hypervisor-3.1 - The Xen Hypervisor for x86/x86_64
[03:58] <pitti> StevenK: ah, indeed; now, that makes sense :)
[03:58] <StevenK> pitti: (And as a consequence, is sitting in NEW)
[04:01] <pitti> zul: can you please run lintian over the xen packages? there is a lot of stuff, and some serious bugs (soname mismatch, missing Depends:, installing .pyc files, etc.)
[04:02] <StevenK> zul: And the descriptions spell Xen in two different ways. XEN vs Xen
[04:16] <zul> pitti: working on it later today
[04:18] <pitti> zul: thank you
[04:26] <ion_> libgksu (2.0.5-1ubuntu3) gutsy; urgency=low * debian/patches/17_composited_fade.patch: - Draw a black window and change opacity to fade when we have a compositor. (LP: #126529)
[04:26] <ion_> Yay!
[04:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: you oversized the cds again, it looks like
[04:28] <pitti> Hobbsee: me?
[04:29] <Hobbsee> #
[04:29] <Hobbsee> By Martin Pitt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>on 2007-07-21
[04:29] <Hobbsee> add apparmor-utils to standard recommends
[04:29] <pitti> Hobbsee: ah, I see; those are not too big, but there was very little space left on some CDs
[04:30] <Hobbsee> i386 is now over.  *shrugs*
[04:31] <cjwatson> I bet that pulled in the -386 kernel by mistake, as I mentioned earlier
[04:32] <cjwatson> yep
[04:32] <cjwatson> mathiaz: would you drop the Depends: apparmor-modules | apparmor-modules-2.0 from apparmor to a Recommends, please? Pulling in the kernel via Depends at that point has undesirable effects on CD images and on the archive.
[04:33] <pitti> heno: why did you reopen the gutsy task of bug 48848?
[04:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 48848 in quagga "[Dapper SRU]  Assertion failure in OSPF" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48848
[04:35] <mathiaz> cjwatson: ok. I'll have a look into this.
[04:36] <cjwatson> thanks
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: hi
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: the one generated tomorrow  will be
[04:39] <carlos> I just cleaned up a bit the directories
[04:39] <carlos> and fixed the script to stop doing a full export
[04:41] <pitti> carlos: I don't really want to do a base update right now, can you export the delta tarballs relative to 20070625 again?
[04:42] <mathiaz> pitti: I've got a question about package maintained in bzr.
[04:42] <mathiaz> pitti: now that apparmor is maintained in bzr, what's the process to upload a new package %
[04:42] <pitti> mathiaz: it doesn't chnage
[04:43] <mathiaz> pitti: ? do I need to upload a new source package every time ?
[04:43] <pitti> mathiaz: there is no magic (yet) to tell LP that this revision of this branch is a new upload
[04:43] <mathiaz> pitti: I mean a new tar file.
[04:43] <mathiaz> pitti: ok. But what about the version numbers ?
[04:43] <pitti> mathiaz: depends; you should not change the orig.tar.gz unless there's actually a new upstream version
[04:43] <pitti> mathiaz: and you should use upstream's orig.tar.gz preferably
[04:44] <mathiaz> pitti: hum. We branched from a specific version from upstream.
[04:44] <pitti> mathiaz: right, but that shouldn't be a problem?
[04:44] <mathiaz> pitti: ok. I think I get the process - I'll keep the orig.tar.gz.
[04:45] <pitti> mathiaz: I guess you don't use a patch system any more, so our changes will be in the diff.gz, but that's what we want then
[04:45] <mathiaz> pitti: no. I don't think so. I'll give a try.
[04:45] <mathiaz> pitti: correct. I dropped all the dpatch patches.
[04:45] <mathiaz> pitti: they are applied directly in the source tree.
[04:45] <pitti> mathiaz: right
[04:45] <mathiaz> pitti: thanks.
[04:46] <bSON> Amaranth: hello again
[04:47] <bSON> (had to go away for a while)
[04:47] <carlos> pitti: sure
[04:48] <carlos> pitti: should I keep the full export there or just remove it to save some space? (I already removed the 20070625 one...)
[04:48] <carlos> pitti: I'm talking about the 20070722 one
[04:48] <pitti> carlos: you can ditch it
[04:49] <carlos> ok
[04:50] <carlos> pitti: script updated
[04:50] <bSON> Amaranth: the difference with "zoom" is that the window starts to zoom from the cursor position and flows to it's initial position, so the user always sees when a new window appears even if it's small.
[04:51] <bSON> Amaranth: also, this gives users a visual relationship between some button/menu entry they click on and and a window popping up as consequence of this. for instance, if clicking the Close button of a gedit window with unsaved changes, the do-you-want-to-save dialog would seem to zoom out of that close button
[04:52] <heno> pitti: I just moved the milestone, but probably did it on the wrong swivel box
[04:53] <elkbuntu> grrr... who decided to make rhythmbox open every time i plug my usb key in. vewwwwy annoying
[04:54] <pitti> heno: thanks; moving back
[04:54] <cjwatson> elkbuntu: System -> Preferences -> Removable Drives and Media -> Multimedia -> Play music files when connected?
[04:56] <elkbuntu> cjwatson, only media on the stick is an ogg theora
[04:56] <elkbuntu> err.. s/media/multimedia/
[04:59] <cjwatson> I don't know whether it's *correct*, but I suspect that's how you turn it off. *shrug*
[05:00] <Nafallo> pitti: around?
[05:00] <elkbuntu> and rhythmbox does not want to play it anyway. it'd be fine if it asked to play/open stuff, but not do it like this... /me skulks off to whinge at LP
[05:06] <siretart> cprov: is the ppa-beta mentioned on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas the same as the dogfood ppa, or do we need to reapply for the beta ppas?
[05:08] <cprov> siretart: no, old users and/or people who already have the requirements in place in dogfood (GPG, ubuntero, beta-testers) are OK to proceed.
[05:09] <\sh> who has some more knowledge about landscape? ,-)
[05:09] <siretart> \sh: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/landscape-system-management-tool has
[05:09] <\sh> siretart: well, yes, I read this already...but this is, more or less, the same I can read about RHN :) but what I need to know if there are "satellite landscapes" possible, like RHN Satellite servers
[05:10] <siretart> cprov: so I just ignore https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas which tells me to write an email to apply, ok
[05:11] <cprov> siretart: yup
[05:12] <\sh> siretart: as you know, most servers in a DC are not free to fly around the internet ,-) they are caught by cages like paketfilters, cis ios ip filtering etc. ;)
[05:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, ping
[05:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: pong
[05:35] <tkamppeter> Hi pitti, it is about the printer setup tool
[05:35] <tkamppeter> WDYT what is more important for having easy printer setup?
[05:36] <tkamppeter> EITHER:
[05:36] <tkamppeter> - Plug-n-Print
[05:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127748 in debian-installer "typo /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy instead of gusty on alternate CD" [Undecided,New]
[05:36] <tkamppeter> - A tool where bugs get regularly fixed by upstream maintainers and also new printing system features get regularly supported
[05:37] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I'll do it if you like ...
[05:37] <tkamppeter> - Some more extra functions
[05:37] <tkamppeter> OR
[05:37] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i'm thinking "you are a muppet, please learn to spell" isnt appropriate either
[05:37] <tkamppeter> - Printers displayed as icons?
[05:37] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's clearly a user trying to diagnose the bug and getting it wrong, though
[05:37] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: from the sound of things, *something* went wrong
[05:38] <Hobbsee> true
[05:38] <cjwatson> so rejecting would not be appropriate ...
[05:38] <cjwatson> I'll look at it
[05:38] <Hobbsee> cool
[05:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: I didn't take a look at s-c-p recently, I just remember that the version from a few months ago was very complex
[05:46] <pitti> Amaranth: do you happen to know a page with some gutsy screenshots with compiz enabled?
[05:47] <spasticteapot> What new features will be added to Ubuntu?
[05:47] <spasticteapot> Also, who do I thank for the awesomeness that is Feisty Fawn?
[05:56] <lemsx1> spasticteapot: #ubuntu-offtopic ?
[06:10] <mathiaz> pitti: I've updated the apparmor packages and published everything in my own branch.
[06:11] <mathiaz> pitti: can you have a look at it and merge it to the branch in ~ubuntu-core-dev ?
[06:30] <iwj> Is it dholbach I should be grousing to about Java packages ?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> iwj: not usually, no.
[06:31] <elmo> iwj: doko
[06:32] <iwj> Ah, of course, Ooo.
[06:32] <Hobbsee> that's who i was after.
[06:32] <iwj> doko: How much RAM do you think building some random java package should take ?  My 1GB testbed machine failed to build libbsf-java.
[06:33] <ScottK> iwj: You might also ask man-di on #ubuntu-motu.
[06:38] <doko> iwj: which architecture?
[06:38] <iwj> amd64.
[06:38] <iwj> GC Warning: Out of Memory!  Returning NIL!
[06:38] <iwj> a couple of times, and also
[06:38] <iwj> GC Warning: Repeated allocation of very large block (appr. size 131072000) May lead to memory leak and poor performance.
[06:38] <doko> iwj: yes, known on amd64
[06:39] <iwj> During javadoc.
[06:39] <iwj> Ah.
[06:39] <iwj> So, err, lots of stuff is ftbfs.  Is Something being done ?
[06:39] <doko> yes, looking for the offending update
[06:39] <iwj> I don't mind personally - my tester can just carry on and atm I'm reviewing all the reports by hand anyway to get rid of false positives.
[06:40] <iwj> Right.  Fair enough, I'll not file bugs then.
[06:40] <iwj> Let me know when you think it's fixed.
[06:40] <doko> ok
[06:41] <iwj> Thanks, and good luck.
[06:48] <elmo> pitti: if you can free up any space on lithium, that'd be nice
[06:48] <elmo> pitti: e.g. any pre-tribe-3 hardlink trees etc.
[06:59] <iwj> Hnggg, looks like my testbed machine is broken again.
[07:05] <iwj> Yes, this install is completely hosed.  No network, can't log in, everything broken.
[07:06] <iwj> That's development I suppose.  I think I'll leave reinstalling it to tomorrow.
[07:10] <cjwatson> wow, this machine had kernel packages on it dating all the way back to warty
[07:16] <coNP> Is it possible to get hunspell from debian incoming into gutsy? Should I simply file a sync / merge request? Or are there any other requirements?
[07:18] <geser> coNP: you need an ack from a core-dev (if you aren't one) in the sync request
[07:18] <dholbach> not yet :-)
[07:19] <geser> and check if it builds else you get a yelling from Hobbsee
[07:19] <geser> :)
[07:20] <coNP> "The later you become a Ubuntu Member, the later it expires" (old Hungarian proverb :))
[07:20] <dholbach> hehehe
[07:23] <pitti> elmo: there are no copies, so I cannot free anything obvious
[07:23] <elmo> pitti: ok
[07:25] <cjwatson> coNP: should be checked/coordinated with the firefox and openoffice.org maintainers, since it's broken those before
[07:25] <coNP> cjwatson: I see
[07:26] <xtknight> cjwatson, hello, did you get my PM about the device detection idea?
[07:27] <cjwatson> xtknight: yes, but I haven't had a chance to think about it yet
[07:27] <cjwatson> I'm slightly concerned about implementing too much on the Windows side, as it inherently can't be shared with the other supported methods of installing Ubuntu (which are, ultimately, primary)
[07:28] <xtknight> ah
[07:31] <xtknight> would making a spec be a good idea for it, at this point, until it is decided on?
[07:31] <xtknight> it actually came from an idea or a couple in the IdeaPool
[07:32] <cjwatson> xtknight: I think a mailing list discussion might be more useful to flesh out ideas
[07:32] <xtknight> cjwatson, any in particular?
[07:33] <cjwatson> ubuntu-devel-discuss probably
[07:35] <pitti> mathiaz: bah, this bzr pull is hanging for ten minutes now, I already tried it twice
[07:35] <pitti> mathiaz: I need to leave for Taekwondo now, maybe you can ask Kees? otherwise I'll do it tomorrow morning
[07:35] <mathiaz> pitti: tommorow shoud be fine
[07:37] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I've updated the apparmor package to use Recommends instead of Depends.
[07:37] <cjwatson> mathiaz: thanks!
[07:38] <mathiaz> cjwatson: it's published in my bzr tree, but it still needs to be uploaded.
[07:38] <mathiaz> cjwatson: and merged into the ~ubuntu-core-dev tree.
[07:38] <cjwatson> mathiaz: URL, and I can do it?
[07:38] <mathiaz> cjwatson: can this wait until tomorrow ?
[07:38] <cjwatson> well, CDs are broken partly due to it
[07:38] <cjwatson> so I would prefer a quick fix
[07:39] <mathiaz> cjwatson: the thing is that my tree contains more change than the quick fix for the control file.
[07:39] <cjwatson> I see
[07:39] <mathiaz> cjwatson: so I'm not sure that merging my branch in ubuntu-core-dev is so simple.
[07:39] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I'd like to get in reviewed.
[07:40] <cjwatson> why don't I merge and upload just that one change, assuming it was a separate revision in bzrr?
[07:40] <cjwatson> bzr
[07:40] <mathiaz> cjwatson: yop. that's possible then.
[07:40] <mathiaz> cjwatson: let me give the information.
[07:40] <alesan> why is there no /usr/include/linux/sys.h in ubuntu? isn't this a bug?
[07:41] <cjwatson> alesan: you can't rely on being able to include anything in /usr/include/linux. If you need something from there that isn't available, you need to copy it.
[07:41] <alesan> cjwatson, well I just used to find that file there in any other distro that's why I ask
[07:42] <cjwatson> alesan: include/linux/sys.h in the current kernel tree says "This file is no longer used or needed"
[07:42] <mathiaz> cjwatson: the branch is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/apparmor/ubuntu-mathiaz
[07:42] <mathiaz> cjwatson: and the revision is 517.
[07:42] <alesan> cjwatson, good to know :) thenk you
[07:44] <elkbuntu> eep. whatever that nautilus update was for, it just made bug 119954 worse as it now dies on opening the properties dialog, instead of on closing
[07:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119954 in gtk+2.0 "Nautilus crashes while looking the partition icon properties" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119954
[07:44] <cjwatson> alesan: and include/linux/Kbuild doesn't list it, so even if other distributions include it right now, they probably won't for long
[07:45] <alesan> cjwatson, you're correct thank you
[07:47] <coNP> elkbuntu: you mean 2.19.5?
[07:47] <elkbuntu> coNP, yep
[07:52] <elkbuntu> anyway. nearly 4am, so i'll debug in th... err, later
[08:04] <keescook> mathiaz: reading scroll back now.  what broke for cd builds?
[08:05] <cjwatson> Depends: apparmor-modules pulls -386 kernel into standard because germinate doesn't know which one to pick so CDs get bloated
[08:05] <cjwatson> keescook: ^--
[08:06] <cjwatson> keescook: actually, if you'd care to upload just the diff from mathiaz' r517, I'm late for dinner now :)
[08:06] <keescook> cjwatson: argh.  but apparmor-modules is provided by apparmor-modules-source
[08:06] <keescook> is apparmor-modules-2.0 safe?  that's the "real" depend
[08:06] <cjwatson> no it's not ..
[08:06] <cjwatson> $ apt-cache show apparmor-modules-source | grep Provides
[08:06] <cjwatson> $
[08:07] <cjwatson> and in any case germinate wouldn't know which provider was preferred
[08:07] <keescook> no, I mena after it's built; vi m-a
[08:07] <cjwatson> germinate *really* doesn't know that!
[08:07] <cjwatson> honestly, dropping to Recommends is better
[08:07] <keescook> okay, so I should have apparmor-modules provide apparmor-modules-2.0 as l-u-m does?
[08:07] <cjwatson> no, just drop the dependency to a recommendation
[08:07] <cjwatson> it will never matter on standard Ubuntu systems because they'll always have l-u-m installed
[08:07] <keescook> but I need to make sure l-u-m is installed if someone instlals apparmor
[08:07] <keescook> ah, okay.
[08:08] <cjwatson> there's no other way to do it without breaking other things, sorry.
[08:08] <cjwatson> at least not if you want apparmor in standard
[08:08] <keescook> right.  okay, fixing, one sec
[08:08] <cjwatson> ta
[08:12] <keescook> cjwatson: AA uploaded with Depends adjusted.
[08:28] <mathiaz> keescook: did you update the ubuntu-core-dev branch for apparmor with the fix you've just uploaded ?
[08:35] <keescook> mathiaz: pushed it now; still haven't rebased to your svn snapshot
[08:37] <mathiaz> keescook: thanks.
[08:37] <mathiaz> keescook: I'll merge ubuntu-core-dev in my branch.
[08:37] <mathiaz> keescook: I've managed to merge it this morning
[08:38] <mathiaz> keescook: I came across some issue about no common ancestors between the two branche.
[08:39] <mathiaz> keescook: do you have sometime to merge my branch ?
[08:40] <mathiaz> keescook: otherwise I could ask pitti to review the merge tomorrow.
[08:40] <keescook> mathiaz: I haven't had time (still involved in ubuntu-live and oscon).  My concern is the difference between the orig files.
[08:41] <mathiaz> keescook: you mean the fact that the orig file was different from the svn version ?
[08:42] <keescook> right, you mentioned that when you generated a new orig.tar.gz, it was different from what was already in the archive.
[08:42] <mathiaz> keescook: correct.
[08:43] <mathiaz> keescook: I've described what I did in the commit log.
[08:44] <keescook> okay, cool.  I'm pulling your branch now.
[08:44] <mathiaz> keescook: I can check again to make sure that my tree at revision 514 is the same as the one in the orig.tar.gz
[08:45] <mathiaz> keescook: the pull may take some time - pitti gave up after 10 minutes.
[08:45] <keescook> yeah, I've started it now, since I've got netwrok connectivity.  :)
[08:46] <cjwatson> mathiaz: repacking any .gz file will give you different results every time
[08:46] <cjwatson> mathiaz: there's a timestamp in the gzip format ...
[08:46] <cjwatson> mathiaz: you have to actually use the .tar.gz file in the archive, or if there isn't one already then the .tar.gz file shipped by upstream if at all possible
[08:47] <cjwatson> (there might be other reasons why your .tar.gz was different, such as a different directory name at the top of the tree)
[08:47] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I was using the tar.gz file.
[08:48] <cjwatson> so what's the concern about regeneration above
[08:48] <cjwatson> ?
[08:48] <mathiaz> cjwatson: this is what I did: I branch from upstream bzr tree (which is an auto import)
[08:48] <mathiaz> cjwatson: than I untared the orig.tar.gz in another directory.
[08:49] <mathiaz> cjwatson: that's when I found out that there was some differences between my branch and the content of the orig.tar.gz
[08:49] <cjwatson> ok, it's not unusual for there to be insignificant but non-zero differences due to 'make release' or whatever
[08:49] <mathiaz> cjwatson: beside the debian/ dir.
[08:50] <cjwatson> the "correct" way to deal with that is probably to branch off the release point and apply whatever differences were in the tarball to that branch, and then branch off *that* for the packaging
[08:50] <mathiaz> cjwatson: well - it turned out that there was some change in the src files (like .c, .h, shell script)
[08:50] <cjwatson> but it's not always worth that much effort and sometimes it's easier to just commit the differences to your branch
[08:50] <cjwatson> if there are actual source changes, it may be that upstream actually released off a branch rather than off head?
[08:51] <mathiaz> cjwatson: hum. That's what I did, except that I didn't branch off for the packaging.
[08:51] <cjwatson> that's probably ok
[08:51] <cjwatson> worst case you have a fiddly merge next time round that you need to be careful about
[08:51] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I just kept using the same branche.
[08:51] <cjwatson> worth talking to upstream and finding out what their release practices are
[08:52] <mathiaz> cjwatson: yop. I don't know exactly where the orig.tar.gz came from.
[08:52] <mathiaz> kees knows more about that.
[08:53] <keescook> mathiaz: what I did to build it originally is in the debian/copyright file.
[08:55] <mathiaz> keescook: yeah - I read it and it seems that something doesn't match somewhere...
[08:55] <mathiaz> keescook: the svn revision doesn't match.
[08:55] <keescook> mathiaz: yup; this is what I wanted to examine before taking the merge.  I'm still waiting for the branch to finish...
[08:56] <mathiaz> keescook: for example, apparmor.d/enabled/ has only bin.ping at revision 510.
[08:56] <mathiaz> keescook: the rest of the profiles, as shipped in the orig.tar.gz were only added at revision 538.
[08:56] <keescook> mathiaz: okay, I'll check it out.
[08:57] <mathiaz> keescook: this how I found out that something was wrong because the patches were not applied correctly
[09:01] <mathiaz> keescook: to clarify what I did on my branch: 510 to 514 are the revision to bring the branch in sync with the content of the orig.tar.gz
[09:02] <mathiaz> keescook: revision 515 is the actual merge, when I drop all the patches.
[09:02] <mathiaz> keescook: 516 and + are more packaging bits.
[09:03] <keescook> branching finished; relocating rooms at ubuntu live...
[09:09] <cjwatson> oh my, compiz makes vmware sloooooow here
[09:09] <cjwatson> horribly visible screen redraws in d-i ...
[09:10] <seb128> cjwatson: weird, I think mvo made it use metacity on vmware
[09:11] <cjwatson> seb128: compiz in the host not the guest
[09:11] <cjwatson> d-i doesn't run a window manager ;-)
[09:11] <seb128> ah, k
[09:11] <seb128> righ ;)
[09:18] <Kmos> any kde/kopete user here to test an old bug?
[09:30] <keescook> mathiaz: I think the svn->bzr import broke revision numbers.
[09:30] <keescook> bzr r510 != svn r510
[09:32] <keescook> looks like bzr r489 == svn r510
[09:39] <mathiaz> keescook: so the content of the orig.tar.gz is the same as bzr r489 ?
[09:43] <mathiaz> keescook: ok. I get it now. So shoud I redo the branch ?
[09:59] <Nafallo> could someone reject bacula ubuntu3 from dapper-proposed please?
[10:01] <seb128> Nafallo: there is 2 of them there, which one?
[10:02] <Nafallo> seb128: both. this one needs more work :-).
[10:02] <Nafallo> seb128: thanks
[10:02] <seb128> Nafallo: done
[10:02] <seb128> Nafallo: you're welcome
[10:07] <Nafallo> next LTS is soon enough?
[10:09] <kevinl--> im sorry to ask here, but i am looking for help with usplash . trying to 0.44 to run on etch .  It seems to me that there is SOMETHING different in ubuntu 7.04 compared to etch (stable) , that makes usplash 0.44 work correctly.  I compiled it from source on etch, everything installs an usplash runs at boot time, but it falls back to the ugly black and white ubuntu graphic, with a messed up progress bar. I think there is something in ubuntu 7.04 tha
[10:09] <kevinl--> ive even tried downloading all of the development libraries from the ubuntu repos into etch
[10:09] <kevinl--> and then compiling
[10:38] <GyrosGeier> hi
[10:42] <GyrosGeier> I'm hacking a script that auto-backports a cross toolchain for {etch,lenny,sid,dapper,edgy,feisty,gutsy}. Both native and cross builds of gcc fail for me currently because it requires the compiler used during bootstrap to understand -fno-stack-protector
[10:43] <GyrosGeier> as far as I've understood, the bootstrap compiler is build with really vanilla CFLAGS normally, and the final compiler is built with all the interesting options (since we know the bootstrap compiler handles them)
[10:44] <GyrosGeier> however it fails on the very first compilation, during the native libiberty build
[10:44] <GyrosGeier> any ideas?
[10:44] <ScottK> Try a simpler project?
[10:45] <ScottK> Maybe ask jdong. He's the king of Ubuntu backports.
[10:45] <GyrosGeier> well
[10:46] <jdong> ScottK: this sounds like a job for our GCC deities....
[10:46] <GyrosGeier> everything else works; http://www.emdebian.org/~sjr/toolchains/pool/main/b/binutils has the evil cartesian cross already
[10:46] <ScottK> jdong: I heard something about backports crack and I thought of you. ;-)
[10:47] <jdong> ScottK: lol I'm glad :)
[10:47] <GyrosGeier> (target runtime is still run through dpkg-cross in a sid chroot, I hope to hack a dedicated tool that doesn't need a chroot soonish)
[10:47] <GyrosGeier> BTW, are some of the EmbeddedUbuntu guys on IRC?
[10:48] <mc44> GyrosGeier: #ubuntu-mobile?
[10:48] <GyrosGeier> mc44, thanks
[11:50] <cjwatson> ogra: edubuntu intersection> glad to help. Let me know whether it works!
[11:50] <ogra> i will, (next week)
[11:50] <ogra> :)
[11:50] <cjwatson> ogra: the manifest-desktop file looks vaguely OK, at least
[11:51] <ogra> good, i dont expect issues...
[11:51] <ogra> but testing will proof :)


[01:05] <meoblast001> hi
[01:05] <meoblast001> why is the Sun JRE even in the repos?
[01:06] <meoblast001> it has absolutely no practical advantage over the OpenJDK-JRE
[01:06] <zhurai> because some people prefer sun's one?
[01:06] <meoblast001> yeah... aparently frostwire does too
[01:06] <meoblast001> and made it a recommended dependency, so now my system is installing this useless package
[01:11] <meoblast001> found a bug in the Sun JRE
[01:11] <meoblast001> if you don't agree to the license it keeps asking you again
[01:11] <meoblast001> and starts giving crash reports
[01:15] <directhex> meoblast001, here's a reason: icedtea is broken by design, so you need proprietary java to use applets without killing your browser
[01:15] <meoblast001> what do you mean?
[01:16] <directhex> java applets on web pages?
[01:16] <meoblast001> i mean... broken by design?
[01:16] <meoblast001> you mean like www.defectivebydesign.org ?
[01:16] <directhex> doesn't even remotely work
[01:16] <meoblast001> i find it to work
[01:16] <meoblast001> i think
[01:16] <meoblast001> well.. not Icedtea... never tried it
[01:16] <meoblast001> but OpenJDK-JRE
[01:17] <meoblast001> and why would it be defective by design?
[01:17] <directhex> sigh.
[01:17] <meoblast001> it's free software... fork it
[01:17] <meoblast001> design it better
[01:17] <directhex> i have zero interest in java plugins from a developer standpoint. as a user, i occasionally need to use them
[01:17] <meoblast001> directhex: are you trying to say that Sun purposely f***ed it up?
[01:17] <directhex> i'm saying openjdk doesn't include the plugin component found in sun java
[01:18] <directhex> and that icedtea is a poor stand-in
[01:18] <meoblast001> lol
[01:19] <meoblast001> maybe i should get gNewSense
[02:22] <rendero> hello, i need the package libmysqltcl
[02:23] <rendero> do i have to compile from source ?
[02:24] <Hobbsee> rendero: it's already in the archives as mysqltcl.  I already answererd you in -bugs
[02:24] <rendero> ok thx i will check
[05:47] <ripps> Can someone please fix python-gnome2-extras in Karmic? I think the problem has to do with python-gdl.
[07:44] <ripps> So, nobody knows what's going on with python-gnome2-extras in Karmic?
[07:48] <lifeless> ripps: all I know is that you've asked twice here
[09:10] <mrooney> lifeless: isn't okay to ask questions multiple times with an appropriate waiting period in between if no one answers?
[09:30] <lifeless> TheMuso: so, dmraid
[09:30] <lifeless> mrooney: Did I say it wasn't?
[10:32] <mrooney> lifeless: I don't know, it seemed like a pretty negative response
[10:37] <lifeless> mrooney: it was all the data I had. I figured that was better than no response at all.
[10:37] <mrooney> lifeless: haha, fair enough
[10:37] <mrooney> good night!
[13:39] <pmatulis> what is up with the string 'really' in some package names (ex: 5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10)?
[13:40] <ion_> It’s really 5.0.75
[13:40] <pmatulis> ok, but why the weird naming convention?
[13:40] <ion_> See the package’s changelog.
[13:41] <pmatulis> ok
[13:55] <loof> question for anyone who's awake
[13:56] <loof> why hasn't ubuntu added an option to turn on/off a keypress that would run xkill?
[13:56] <loof> like say kde or xfce does?
[13:56] <loof> having to download xbindkeys to do it kinda sucks when it should be in the default wm
[13:57] <loof> and most users don't even know they can do that
[15:29] <torkiano> Hello, Can I edit this blueprint: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnome-3 ?
[15:30] <torkiano> I'd like to add this link: http://www.gnome.org/~fpeters/299.html . I think that would be very useful to see the progress to Gnome 3
[15:54] <torkiano> pitti, ping
[16:20] <mdz> hey, that worked (switched to grub 2)
[16:28] <geser> is an archive admin around (or someone else) who could me advise on versioning I should use when fixing bug 384515? what version should I use for the new .orig.tar.gz (as I also need to remove the problematic files from the source package) and not make a new upload from Debian unsyncable due to bad versioning
[16:29] <StevenK> geser: appending +dfsg to the upstream version is the usual method
[16:30] <geser> StevenK: I know but wouldn't that make the package unsyncable from Debian if Debian uses a different +dfsg.orig.tar.gz? which I want to avoid if possible
[16:31] <geser> I was thinking about using +~dfsg-0ubuntu1 for the new upload
[16:31] <StevenK> geser: Yes, it would.
[16:31] <geser> so we could use Debian's .orig.tar.gz when it's fixed there
[16:32] <StevenK> In which case, you need to fix it, *and* choose a version that is less than Debian's new one
[16:33] <geser> yes, therefore the +~dfsg which is less than +dfsg (hope Debian will use this suffix}
[16:34] <geser> but perhaps there is a better solution to that
[16:36] <StevenK> +arepack or so
[16:36] <StevenK> Something that sorts less than dfsg
[16:37] <geser> and another question for this bug: what about the version in hardy,intrepid and jaunty? I've found a patch from Fedora to build it with a packaged libitext-java but the packages and versions which this patch is for are only available in karmic
[16:37] <geser> I guess the only solution would be to remove that package from those releases (it's that even possible?)
[16:39] <StevenK> I seriously doubt that.
[16:42] <geser> so how to solve this for the released releases? if I'm correct that is an issue there
[16:43] <StevenK> I'm not certain. Repack it there too? But that doesn't fix it for the packages already in the released archive
[16:54] <geser> thanks. do you know whom I should ask how to fix it for the released archive? just ask again tomorrow when more people are here?
[17:01] <Laney> Is there precedent for modifying the archive (as opposed to -updates) once a release is made? :O
[18:54] <napsy_> hum
[18:54] <napsy_> just installed empathy 2.27.3
[18:54] <napsy_> damn it rox
[19:00] <tgpraveen> napsy_: how did you install ? compile from source?
[19:00] <napsy_> yes
[19:00] <napsy_> the adium themes are awesome
[19:00] <tgpraveen> napsy_: you on jaunty?
[19:00] <napsy_> yup
[19:00] <tgpraveen> napsy_: could you give me instructions to compile from source
[19:01] <tgpraveen> I haven't done it before
[19:01] <napsy_> you just download the latest source and get the dependencies
[19:01] <napsy_> then you run ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-webkit=yes && make && sudo make install
[19:01] <tgpraveen> napsy_: download the latest tarball?
[19:01] <napsy_> and there you have it
[19:02] <napsy_> yes
[19:02] <tgpraveen> napsy_: how do I know which all are the dependencies?
[19:03] <napsy_> well I installed every component that the configure script told me was missing
[19:03] <tgpraveen> napsy_: also do you have the libchamplin required for the geolocation features?
[19:03] <napsy_> until configure finished successfuly
[19:03] <napsy_> I didn't try geolocation
[19:04] <napsy_> I'm not quite sure how geolocation should work without a location source
[19:04] <napsy_> e.g. gps or phone
[19:09] <tgpraveen> napsy_: it will use your wifi connection or your ip address etc
[19:09] <tgpraveen> I know there are many sources supported
[19:09] <tgpraveen> ask on #telepathy
[19:09] <napsy_> hm that can be true
[19:26] <geser> why not use the empathy from the telepathy PPA? that way you don't need to compile, get package updates and can also easily remove it
[19:28] <tgpraveen> geser: ppa is behind
[19:28] <tgpraveen> still on 2.27.2
[19:28] <tgpraveen> which is VERY buggy
[19:28] <tgpraveen> .3 fixed a lot of stuff and added a few nice features
[19:28] <tgpraveen> like adium themes, geolocation
[20:13] <torkiano> hello, is it possible to have a PPA with bonobo free evolution packages (fedora already has a repo). more info here: http://mbarnes.livejournal.com/3002.html
[20:14] <torkiano> Gnome 3.0 transition is more easy with that packages ;)
[21:41] <dlec> hi
[21:42] <dlec> whats the noteable differences in the new ubuntu
[21:42] <dlec> ive got the new kernel and all
[21:42] <dlec> dont see anything visibly different
[21:42] <dlec> not even ff3.5
[21:46] <dlec> anyone awake
[21:46] <highvoltage> no
[21:47] <dlec> erm
[21:47] <highvoltage> dlec: well, karmic isn't even 25% done yet (thumbsucking a number)
[21:47] <highvoltage> dlec: it will be a few months until you can see some bigger changes in karmic vs jaunty
[21:47] <dlec> ohh
[21:48] <highvoltage> dlec: although I've seen quite a few smaller things so far because of the newer versions of the newer software installed
[21:48] <dlec> i see
[21:48] <dlec> so then my updating was a waste? :/
[21:48] <highvoltage> dlec: for example, my intel graphics is notably faster, transmission has lots of little improvements, and gnome has a big bunch of bug fixes
[21:49] <dlec> highvoltage i just moved to jaunty.
[21:49] <highvoltage> dlec: aaah
[21:49] <dlec> i guess i'll stay 2 months behind
[21:49] <highvoltage> dlec: well, in that case, check the release notes and the release announcement
[21:50] <dlec> it'd be no fun if everyone patched their shit immediately.
[21:50] <dlec> :P
[21:50] <highvoltage> dlec: it should tell you everything you need to know. in my opinion Jaunty wasn't the most exciting release ever though
[21:50] <dlec> why though
[21:50] <dlec> im only concerned about security and kernel stuff
[21:50] <dlec> as far as those are concerned how well does jaunty do
[21:51] <highvoltage> dlec: pretty much as good as any other ubuntu release so far. the jaunty kernel doesn't play well with Intel graphics drivers though, which is the only problem I've had with it personally
[21:51] <dlec> are you an ubuntu dev
[21:51] <dlec> ohh
[21:51] <highvoltage> dlec: besides that it's a very solid release, many are calling it their favourite release
[21:52] <dlec> thats not good is it
[21:52] <highvoltage> dlec: nope, not yet anyway
[21:52] <dlec> what are the common issues
[21:52] <dlec> if any
[21:52] <dlec> with intel drivers
[21:52] <dlec> so i install a generic kernel?
[21:52] <dlec> is that what jaunty recommends?
[21:53] <dlec> i just installed the new kernel
[21:53] <highvoltage> if you install a desktop machine, yes
[21:53] <highvoltage> -generic is good.
[21:54] <dlec> i have some sort of nvidia joint
[21:54] <dlec> and it is -generic as of now
[21:54] <dlec> 2.6.28-13-generic
[21:54] <dlec> ok im good to go then
[21:56] <highvoltage> yep
[21:56] <dlec> thx!
[21:57] <highvoltage> you're welcome
[22:15] <ScottK> Any other archive admin around who's up for some weekend clamav backport fun?


[06:06] <Kilos> morning superfly inetpro paddatrapper and others
[06:10] <theblazehen> Hi Kilos
[06:10] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[06:14] <thatgraemeguy> morning peoples
[06:14] <Kilos> hi thatgraemeguy
[06:54] <paddatrapper> Morning Kilos
[06:54] <Kilos> are you doing all the videos paddatrapper ?
[06:55] <Kilos> hi superfly look after frogs legs for us
[06:55] <Kilos> oh frog boots
[06:55] <Kilos> frogs legs sounds better
[06:56] <paddatrapper> Kilos: some of them. I'm usually on camera, switching or sound for at least 4/5 a day
[06:56] <paddatrapper> Lol
[06:57] <Kilos> well young man you jumped in and joined us at the right time hey
[06:57] <superfly> Kilos: I've got him under my wing ;-)
[06:57] <Kilos> you gonna be bored when debconf is over
[06:57] <Kilos> :D
[06:58] <paddatrapper> I certainly did!
[06:59] <paddatrapper> Already planning my next conference thing
[06:59] <Kilos> lol
[06:59] <superfly> pyconza
[06:59] <Kilos> i hope they are feeding you and supplying coffee
[07:03] <superfly> they are feeding us well
[07:03] <Kilos> great
[07:03] <Kilos> cant have my guys getting run down
[07:09] <inetpro> goeie more
[07:09] <Kilos> more inetpro
[07:10] <Kilos> hi Sicelo you here early hey
[07:12] <superfly> Kilos: he never left :-P
[07:12] <Kilos> oh my
[07:12] <Kilos> is he a debian guys superfly
[07:12] <Kilos> guy
[07:12] <Kilos> from where?
[07:12] <superfly> Kilos: yes, he's here at DebConf with us. He's from Swaziland
[07:13] <Kilos> oh good. do they have a loco
[07:13] <Kilos> tell him about ubuntu africa
[07:22] <andrewlsd> Hi Sicelo.
[07:25] <andrewlsd> Maaz: tell Sicelo that there is an Ubuntu Africa website
[07:25] <Maaz> andrewlsd: Righto, I'll tell Sicelo on freenode
[07:26] <Kilos> Maaz tell Sicelo http://ubuntu-africa.info
[07:26] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay, I'll tell Sicelo on freenode
[07:29] <Kilos> morning andrewlsd
[07:29] <andrewlsd> morning Kilos
[07:29] <Kilos> i need to go sort sheep guys, be good
[07:30] <andrewlsd> woolled you like some help with that?
[07:50] <Sicelo> morning
[07:50] <Maaz> Sicelo: By the way, andrewlsd on freenode told me "tell Sicelo that there is an Ubuntu Africa website" 24 minutes and 31 seconds ago
[07:50] <Maaz> Sicelo: By the way, Kilos on freenode told me "tell Sicelo http://ubuntu-africa.info" 23 minutes and 37 seconds ago
[07:50] <Sicelo> ah .. i wanted to ask how the bot is meant to 'tell' me :)
[07:58] <chesedo> morning all
[08:22] <magespawn> good morning
[08:45] <Kilos> hi chesedo magespawn
[09:49] <Kilos> wb kmf
[09:50] <Kilos> chesedo lets try remember after debconf to get fly to do that last merge
[09:51] <Kilos> i dont even remember what it was for
[09:53] <chesedo> Kilos: ok
[09:54] <chesedo> Hi kmf
[10:01] <kmf> hi chesedo
[10:13] <chesedo> kmf: for the ubuntu for hope website, do you have any preferrence for a static site generator (especially nikola vs hugo)?
[10:21] <kmf> chesedo, not sure sitting next to superfly
[10:22] <chesedo> lol, ok... will ask again when you are not next to him :P
[10:22] <kmf> superfly, says :) nikola
[10:22] <kmf> kmf loves irl
[10:23] <superfly> :-D
[10:26] <chesedo> ai ok
[10:26] <chesedo> and any css framework prefs (bootstrap vs uikit)?
[10:27] <superfly> bootstrap, personally, just because that's the one I know
[10:28] <chesedo> yip mostly too... just sometimes feel it is 'old' with most using it, but should be the better (safer) choice
[10:28] <chesedo> ty superfly
[10:28] <superfly> yw
[10:28] <superfly> chesedo: bs4 is coming out soon
[10:29] <superfly> chesedo: also, nikola has some bootstrap templates
[10:29] <chesedo> superfly: still in alpha last time i checked...
[10:31] <chesedo> nikola's is already compilled (to css) last time i checked (has had preprocessor support added since) - like to work on the raw less/sass files
[11:50] <kmf>  howdy I have a few keybase.io invites if some of you want?
[11:54] <zipper> kmf: Is it an invite only place?
[11:54] <zipper> I don't mind
[11:55] <kmf> send me your email in a pm
[12:18] <zipper> kmf: Done
[13:16] <zipper> kmf: Thanks
[13:16] <kmf> zipper, did it work?
[13:16] <zipper> I saw the email. Let me see
[13:16] <kmf> ok
[13:17] <zipper> I haven't generated a new key for this email address. Stuff happened.
[13:18] <zipper> Do I need to generate a new GPG key?
[13:18] <zipper> Like right away before joining?
[13:18] <zipper> Because I'm busy as of right now.
[13:18] <kmf> zipper, follow the instructions they are pretty clear
[13:18] <zipper> Cool
[13:18] <kmf> zipper, chill it's friday
[13:18] <zipper> :)
[13:19] <kmf> andrewlsd are you around?
[13:22] <zipper> Nope, it just failed.
[13:22] <zipper> Let me try again
[13:22] <zipper> Did you withdraw the invite?
[13:22] <zipper> LOL
[13:23] <zipper> Ah nvm
[13:24] <zipper> I will join when it gets more popular or in the beta
[13:24] <zipper> It doesn't want me lol
[13:40] <kmf> my bad
[13:40] <kmf> let's try again
[13:46] <zipper> Yeah I need a public key to add a photo. Might have to wait until 6. I want to gen my keys and all on arch or at least refresh and see which new things have occured.
[13:50] <kulelu88> what is this app that is in beta?
[13:58] <kmf> kulelu88, keybase.io
[13:59] <kulelu88> oh that pgpkey thing
[15:24] <magespawn> home time chat later all
[16:23] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:27] <Kilos> i go eat
[16:45] <inetpro> enjoy your meal!
[16:47] <Kilos> ty pro
[16:49] <andrewlsd> Maaz tell kmf Sorry I missed you
[16:49] <Maaz> andrewlsd: Got it, I'll tell kmf on freenode
[17:28] <kulelu88> who has suggestions for a name for a git hosting service?
[18:02] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[18:09] <magespawn> good evening
[18:32] <pavlushka> magespawn: good evening!
[18:33]  * pavlushka yawns
[18:43] <magespawn> hey pavlushka
[18:44] <pavlushka> magespawn: So how goo d is the evening?
[18:46] <magespawn> coldish but other that all good
[18:47] <magespawn> how are things that side?
[21:56] <superfly> Maaz: tell Kilos that it's too early for him to go to bed
[21:56] <Maaz> superfly: Righto, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[22:34] <kulelu88> having a party heh superfly