[21:31] <xuanrui> Hi all! Does anyone have opinions about which mail notification solution works best in Gnome?
[21:31] <xuanrui> ^on 18.04 of course
[21:33] <rungcc_athome> on syslog, the freeze happened on line 6095
[21:33] <rungcc_athome> the system just went full freeze, and no command on keyboard or mouse worked
[21:33] <rungcc_athome> just synergy, mega, spideroak, telegram, firefox and chomium open
[21:35] <netameta> How can you zip entire inner folder content to a zip that when opened will have just the content without the folder itself something like: zip -r -D ./build.zip ./build/
[21:36] <netameta> build.zip will have just the files within the inner folder ./build/
[21:36] <netameta> The above though doesnt work
[21:45] <j4f-shredder> hey, I have 2 g of swap if I run the command free -h  .....how can I increase that swap?
[21:45] <j4f-shredder> since under a lot of stress with react native and android studio and chrome it runs out of memory
[21:45] <j4f-shredder> do I need to delete that swap space or I can just resize it?
[21:45] <j4f-shredder> never knew how to handle swap partitions
[21:46] <rungcc_athome> related to the OS freezing, I found something on dmesg, dunno if it is related
[21:46] <rungcc_athome> [    1.258594] mmc0: Unknown controller version (3). You may experience problems.
[21:48] <rungcc_athome> I have no idea of what can be causing those freezed system
[21:48] <rungcc_athome> dammt
[21:48] <j4f-shredder> my 18.04 froze as well a couple of times between yesterday and today
[21:48] <j4f-shredder> it's quite buggy yet, we have to be patient
[21:49] <rungcc_athome> Do you think that this may be related to the OS as a whole j4f-shredder ?
[21:49] <rungcc_athome> because if that is the case, I'll just downgrade, since this is a production machine
[21:49] <rungcc_athome> I need to work and the computer is just completely unstable at this point
[21:49] <rungcc_athome> unusable
[21:50] <rungcc_athome> maybe ai should stay on 16.4 more time
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> yes
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> definitely
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> don't use it for production
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> 16 is really solid
[21:50] <icee> anyone know about the mainline kernels builder / whoever owns this?
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> I use that in amazon web services
[21:50] <icee> it would be really, really, really nice to get linux-tools packages matching the kernels
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> I will upgrade in 2 years maybe
[21:50] <icee> and isn't much diff
[21:50] <j4f-shredder> for production servers
[21:50] <rungcc_athome> I'll downgrade then, this has been a pain in the ass and I need to work
[21:51] <rungcc_athome> when does 16.04 stop being updated?
[21:51] <j4f-shredder> yes, don't hesitate
[21:51] <j4f-shredder> do it
[21:51] <icee> rungcc_athome: 5 years after rel
[21:51] <icee> rungcc_athome: always worth waiting for xx.xx.1 on LTS before considering it for important things
[21:51] <rungcc_athome> when was it released? hahaha
[21:51] <icee> 16/04
[21:51] <rungcc_athome> 2016?
[21:51] <icee> april 2016, yes
[21:52] <j4f-shredder> depends on your version
[21:52] <j4f-shredder> 5 years
[21:52] <j4f-shredder> I think
[21:52] <SlidingHorn> !mainline | icee
[21:52] <j4f-shredder> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2364303
[21:52] <rungcc_athome> well.  :P
[21:52] <j4f-shredder> hey, does anyone knows if I have to delete the current swap if I need more space
[21:53] <j4f-shredder> I don't know how swap files work
[21:53] <j4f-shredder> I need to increase it from 2 to 30gb
[21:53] <icee> SlidingHorn: was more wondering if there could be another small patch applied to them before building, so we get the linux-tools package :P
[21:53] <icee> but i have no idea who even to plead with this about :P
[21:53] <Mongrel_Shark> Nevermind guys, I fixed it :D
[21:53] <SlidingHorn> icee: you can always apply your own patches, but it wouldn't be supported through typical channels
[21:53] <Mongrel_Shark> thanks for the help :P
[21:54] <shachaf> Mysteriously libgtk3-nocsd.so.0 is getting added to my LD_PRELOAD and I'm not quite sure what's adding it. Maybe someone here knows?
[21:54] <icee> SlidingHorn: do you understand what's in linux-tools?
[21:55] <Daekdroom> Hello. I've purchased a WiFi adapter that runs a rtl8192eu chipset. Ubuntu 18.04 works with it out of the box, but I get a low speed connection to a router 2 meters away...
[21:55] <icee> things like 'perf' which are super goodness for those of us doing kernel development.  yes, i know how to build thigns myself, but i'd like to advocate for the stuff that's in linux-tools, that's kernel-specific specific, and included in the linux kernel repository to be included in the mainline builds
[21:55] <SlidingHorn> icee: maybe check out #ubuntu-kernel
[21:56] <icee> thanks.
[21:56] <j4f-shredder> should I delete the previous swapfile that is in the  /swapfile...I'm creating the new one in /.swapfile
[21:56] <SlidingHorn> !repeat | j4f-shredder also see /msg ubottu swap -
[22:00] <j4f-shredder> sorry, but I feel like a complete failure not knowing this basic stuff
[22:01] <j4f-shredder> since that old swapfile is not being deleted automatically after swapoff and it's taking space
[22:01] <j4f-shredder> I thought that command would erase the file
[22:05] <chanikan> I just cought sh in taskmanager to use a lot of cpu power, without doing anything.  Could this be a virus or malware?
[22:05] <shachaf> Oh man. So as of Ubuntu 18.04, if you're not using GNOME, you get this LD_PRELOAD? This is how people solved the problem?
[22:07] <SlidingHorn> chanikan: you can take a look at top to see if it offers more information regarding the particular shell script that's running
[22:08] <SlidingHorn> shachaf: can you give a little more detail as to what exactly your issue is?
[22:09] <shachaf> Ubuntu 18.04 uses GNOME with some new GTK thing where it draws in the title bars. That's fine. But if you're not using GNOME, GTK is broken, and the way they decided to solve it was to LD_PRELOAD https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+package/gtk3-nocsd for everything.
[22:10] <pijama_boy> Hey guys, how do you switch quickly between different windows of the same app?
[22:10] <shachaf> So my options are a somewhat broken GTK (such that it sometimes draws text offscreen or something), or an ambient LD_PRELOAD for all programs.
[22:10] <chanikan> shachaf, aha, it was a failed teamspeak installation I attempted some hours ago and forgot about
[22:11] <chanikan> shachaf, thank you for the tip about top
[22:11] <pijama_boy> I liked how in unity I could double click on the dock icon and see the instances but in gnome it's like...3 clicks that way
[22:12] <Markdown1_> a lot of Unity users moved to KDE
[22:13] <shachaf> Did people really think that LD_PRELOAD was a reasonable way of fixing this problem? For a package they have the source code to?
[22:16] <chanikan> Markdown1_, I`m a sorta noob, but aren`t the different desktops sorta only gui skins?
[22:16] <Markdown1_> chanikan they are, but different desktops also come with their own suite of apps generally.
[22:18] <chanikan> Markdown1_, oh really?  I thought all desktops could run all apps
[22:19] <Markdown1_> chanikan they can, but Qt Apps generally run better on KDE compared to GTK apps
[22:19] <Markdown1_> chanikan especially when it comes to looks
[22:20] <Markdown1_> then again most Qt/KDE apps are way more functional and crashes way less compared to their GTK counterpart ;)
[22:21] <Aguirre> hi
[22:22] <chanikan> say, aren`t GTK the type of apps used in android?
[22:23] <chanikan> Markdown1_, maybe I need to try out KDE then.  I`m very happy with the way I`ve set up lxde right now though
[22:24] <chanikan> Markdown1_, KDE would require a lot more of the hardware though, right?
[22:25] <Markdown1_> chanikan Lxde is pretty cool, I am more excited about their transition from GTK to Qt (named Lxqt), BTW talking about all these is offtopic in this channel
[22:25] <Markdown1_> chanikan KDE actually uses less hardware resources than Gnome (default Ubuntu) last time I tried
[22:26] <chanikan> Markdown1_, ok?  I`ll try that the next time I mess up my installation then
[22:28] <Markdown1_> chanikan you can install multiple Desktop Environments though, you just have to install the "kubuntu-desktop" package. even though that would make the system over more heavier and inconsistent as some Gnome and KDE resources may run at the same time.
[22:28] <Markdown1_> s/over/even
[22:29] <chanikan> Markdown1_, right, that`s why my last installation got unusable.  I`ve been wanting to try manjaro, since it is said to be more multi DE friendly, but it doesn`t come as a 32 bit distro anymore, something my computer requires
[22:30] <Markdown1_> chanikan I guess in that case you should stick with LXDE, maybe also try out Xubuntu and Ubuntu Mate
[22:31] <Markdown1_> chanikan they are good for older system as they use less resources generally
[22:36] <Rodo365> hi!
[22:40] <chanikan> Markdown1_, so lxde isn`t nesesearly the lightest DE for ubuntu then?
[22:40] <meslem> dfgdqfdfv
[22:47] <Arc1> Video card having problems outputting image to TV through HDMI  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QMGtQB43gB/
[22:47] <Arc1> here's my dmesg:  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cryZ783Nys/
[22:47] <Arc1> here's my Xorg.0.log:  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dhGnBR85CF/
[22:59] <kumool> that wouldnt happen in windows
[22:59] <kumool> :P
[23:04] <jpleau> Hi, is there a way to add filesystem exceptions in apparmor? Evince gets denied when it tries to read things from $XDG_DATA_DIRS, I have a mounted filesystem that is part of that env
[23:12] <jpleau> hm seems only adding "/path/here/** r," worked
[23:19] <Rixter> Good Stormy Evening    I'm TRYING to install the latest Opera browser been running the commands until this: sudo apt-get install opera
[23:19] <Rixter> Reading package lists... Done
[23:19] <Rixter> Building dependency tree
[23:19] <Rixter> Reading state information... Done
[23:19] <Rixter> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
[23:19] <Rixter> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
[23:21] <SlidingHorn> Rixter: version and flavor of your OS?
[23:21] <oerheks> opera is not in our repos, how did you add their repo ??
[23:22] <tomreyn> !paste | Rixter
[23:22] <Rixter> SlidingHorn: Ah, yess...that WOULD help   Xubuntu 17.10 LIVE
[23:22] <tomreyn> please create a permanent OS installation and come back if issues persist.
[23:25] <Rixter> tomreyn: If your unable to help, just say so
[23:25] <oerheks> maybe it needs packages from universe repo, that is not enabled in the live iso
[23:26] <oerheks> Rixter, curious task, in a live iso, with 3rd party repos
[23:26] <Rixter> oerhecks: quite possibly so. I've done this before only with 17.3 and it's been awhile
[23:27] <tomreyn> Rixter: 17.3 of what?
[23:27] <oerheks> 17.3 sounds like 'mint'
[23:27] <Rixter> Someone, somewhere gave me the commands and presto, everything was cool. just can't remember those commands
[23:28] <Rixter> tomeryen: XUBUNTU
[23:28] <SlidingHorn> Rixter: there's no such thing as xubntu 17.3
[23:28] <guiverc> Rixter, there was no 2017-March (17.03) release of Ubuntu
[23:29] <Rixter> NO, I'm running Xubuntu NOW!!! 17.10 LIVE
[23:30] <tomreyn> Rixter: maybe we can suggest (better?) alternatives, if you'll consider them. what makes you want to install opera on a ubuntu 17.10 live iso?
[23:30] <Rixter> quiverc: I never said there was
[23:30] <Rixter> tomreyn: WHAT?
[23:31] <tomreyn> Rixter: what is you use case?
[23:31] <Rixter> tomryen: what?
[23:31] <tomreyn> what i wrote.
[23:31] <J3kyl> why does Firefox suck so much on Ubuntu?
[23:31] <oerheks> hmm before "sudo apt-get install opera-stable" did you run " sudo apt-get update" ???
[23:32] <oerheks> https://deb.opera.com/manual.html
[23:32] <Rixter> What did you say?
[23:32] <oerheks> ...
[23:32] <hggdh> ...
[23:33] <Rixter> oerhechs: Ahm..this is the page I used to set up install:  https://askubuntu.com/questions/765483/how-can-i-install-the-opera-browser-from-the-terminal
[23:33] <nacc> Rixter: let's just start over. you want opera in a xubuntu 17.10 live environment?
[23:33] <tomreyn> J3kyl: it does not, not generally. it surely does on some systems, with some customizations, since that's always the case for any customizable software.
[23:33] <Rixter> nacc: Now we understand
[23:33] <nacc> Rixter: you used the first answer?
[23:34] <Rixter> nacc: ?
[23:34] <nacc> Rixter: the page you linked has links to other answers, etc. You used the answer with 13 upvotes?
[23:35] <Rixter> nacc: Oh...sorry!  I’ve got 12GBs and I leave it open for a couple days with some tabs and the whole system is like molases
[23:36] <Rixter> lapaga: off a pendrive "live"
[23:36] <tomreyn> J3kyl: you could check about:performance to get a better idea of what the memory hog is.
[23:36] <tomreyn> J3kyl: also review your add-ons and plugins, if any.
[23:36] <nacc> Rixter: what does `apt-cache policy opera` say?
[23:36] <oerheks> J3kyl, on what ubuntu version? gnome on 17.10 happens to have a memory leak ...
[23:37] <Rixter> nacc: just a min....
[23:37] <oerheks> .. or you just hit a hidden crypto miner page
[23:39] <J3kyl> oerheks: 18.04 and don’t think I’m on a hidden miner lol I’ve got the same tabs open on my MacOS laptop with no slowdown
[23:40] <J3kyl> tomreyn: I’m pretty light on the plugins I’ll take a look but for now I’m trying to use Chrome and compare
[23:40] <nacc> J3kyl: are they running the same version of firefox?
[23:40] <Rixter> nacc: opera: Installed (none) Canidate: 12.16.1860  Version table: 12.16.1860 500  500 http://deb.opera.com./opera-stable stable/non-free amd64 Packages
[23:41] <nacc> Rixter: ok, so you truncated something earlier. Use a pastebin and pastebin the output of `sudo apt-get install opera`
[23:41] <Rixter> nacc: comin' right up!
[23:43] <J3kyl> nacc: good point I’ll have to check on that
[23:44] <Rixter> nacc: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fsGyWfJmQp/
[23:45] <lapaga> restricted extras
[23:46] <Rixter> lapaga: directed at me?
[23:46] <nacc> Rixter: those packages are not available on 17.10
[23:46] <nacc> one second
[23:46] <earas> wow irc so weird
[23:48] <Rixter> nacc: what the hell?
[23:49] <nacc> Rixter: can you do `apt-cache policy opera-stable` ?
[23:49] <Rixter> nacc: I already did
[23:49] <nacc> Rixter: no, you gave me the policy for 'opera'.
[23:49] <Rixter> will do again
[23:49] <Rixter> ncaa:  OK
[23:52] <Rixter> nacc: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kJPzDDXvpc/
[23:53] <nacc> Rixter: try installing that instead of opera
[23:53] <nacc> Rixter: `sudo apt-get install opera-stable`
[23:53] <Rixter> OK
[23:55] <doomperdicion1> Hi, I would like to update my home user with the new scripts that are in /etc/skel without damaging anything?
[23:55] <Rixter> nacc:  looks like I'm gonna have to go through the entire process again...be back shortly
[23:56] <Rixter> nacc: says it can't locate package stable
[23:56] <nacc> Rixter: what process?
[23:56] <nacc> Rixter: it's not called 'stable', no space. "opera-stable"
[23:57] <Rixter> nacc: yup...my bad
[23:58] <Rixter> nacc: seems to be doing the trick


[00:00] <cheguevara> evening
[00:43] <stdin> cheguevara: are you about?
[00:44] <cheguevara> stdin, aye
[00:44] <cheguevara> whats up
[00:44] <elisiano> good night guys
[00:44] <cheguevara> nigh elisiano
[00:44] <stdin> you know that section in debian/rules that made a wrapper script?
[00:44] <stdin> ...well it doesn't exactly work
[00:45] <stdin> but I have a fix you should apply to your packages
[00:45] <cheguevara> hmm really? i tested it, it seemed to work
[00:45] <cheguevara> what was wrong?
[00:45] <stdin> it doesn't pass arguments to the executable
[00:46] <stdin> " sed -i 's/$$@/$\\$@/' debian/rules " from the source dir should fix it
[00:46] <cheguevara> doubt any of my packages accept any arguments anyway
[00:46] <cheguevara> but i'll go fix it
[00:46] <cheguevara> thanks stdin
[00:47] <stdin> I'm making debdiffs for all the other kde4 modules at the moment
[00:47] <cheguevara> there goes our 1 advocate again :P
[00:48] <stdin> well it teaches you to test your patches ;)
[00:50] <cheguevara> heh true :P
[01:14] <ScottK> Hooray.  New Dell laptop up and running on Kubuntu and "No proprietary drivers are in use on this system".
[01:14] <ardchoille> Nice :)
[01:15] <ScottK> D430 for anyone who's interested.
[01:16] <stdin> hmm, are kdepim-kde4, kdeedu-kde4, kdeutils-kde4, kdesdk-kde4, kdewebdev-kde4, kdeartwork-kde4, kdetoys-kde4, kdeaccessibility-kde4, kdegames-kde4, kdeadmin-kde4, kdenetwork-kde4, kdegraphics-kde4 and kdemultimedia-kde4 supposed to be using "Standards-Version: 3.7.2" ?
[01:19] <cheguevara> as opped to 3.7.3 ?
[01:19] <stdin> yep
[01:20] <stdin> running debuild on all the packages I saw lintian complain quite a few times
[01:20] <cheguevara> can probably bump it
[01:21] <stdin> yeah, but I only looked *after* I build all the .diffs... :p
[01:21] <stdin> so that's another 18 I need to make
[01:21] <cheguevara> ouch :P
[01:22] <stdin> well, 16 actually
[01:22] <stdin> as the kdebase* packages are ok at least
[01:22] <cheguevara> still quiet a lot
[01:47] <blizzzek> gn8
[01:52] <stdin> right, it's taken about an hour but all debdiffs done :)
[01:56] <cheguevara> nice :)
[01:58] <stdin> Riddell: more debdiffs at http://stdin.me.uk/diffs/
[01:59] <stdin> as I can't be bothered making a bug report for each source package...
[02:12] <cheguevara> hmmm
[02:12] <cheguevara> is there any way to adjust font hinting in kde 4
[02:13] <stdin> check in system settings ?
[02:13] <cheguevara> under fonts you can only change the fonts
[02:14] <cheguevara> but the hinting options seem to have vanished
[02:14] <cheguevara> and it don't seem to be hinted by default as well
[02:15]  * cheguevara wants an svn snapshot
[02:16] <stdin> so go build one, it's fun :)
[02:16] <Hobbsee> stdin: any more fixes to make at the same time?
[02:16] <stdin> Hobbsee: no, that's everything
[02:17] <cheguevara> I bet Hobbsee is thinking "when the **** are they gonna stop rebuilding things every other day"
[02:17] <cheguevara> :P
[02:17] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:18] <cheguevara> hey look at restricted modules
[02:18] <cheguevara> 5 uploads
[02:19] <cheguevara> and still no binaries :P
[02:20] <stdin> to be honest, the only reason kde4 needs rebuilding this time is because I didn't test the patch very well (but don't tell Hobbsee, shell poke me to death)
[02:20]  * Hobbsee pokes stdin
[02:20] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:20] <cheguevara> lol
[02:20]  * stdin dies of "pokeage"
[02:20] <cheguevara> at least we don't do weekly snapshots like suse
[02:21] <cheguevara> could do it in a ppa though :P
[02:21] <Hobbsee> well, actually
[02:22] <Hobbsee> as long as it got sent ot the bottom on stuff like hppa, etc, it's probably OK
[02:23] <cheguevara> hey! there are people out there that want to run kde 4 snapshots on hppas, lpias and sparcs
[02:23] <cheguevara> :P
[02:24] <stdin> so, there are people out there than want a pony, we don't all get what we want :p
[02:25] <cheguevara> lol
[02:25] <cheguevara> hmm i wonder though how hard it would be to package svn snapshots
[02:25] <cheguevara> though there is really not much point now
[02:26] <stdin> as a general rule, it's slightly more complicated than however complicated you think it is
[02:26] <cheguevara> lol
[02:26] <cheguevara> i got a strong urge to get latest svn for myself though
[02:27] <cheguevara> though i am scared what its gonna do to kubuntu kde 4 packages
[02:27] <stdin> if you install to another prefix, nothing
[02:27] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ping
[02:27] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: pong
[02:27] <cheguevara> well yeah true
[02:27] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: can you install cdbs on aurora please?
[02:28] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: and also, can i have my password for the machine?
[02:28] <imbrandon> aurora?
[02:28] <imbrandon> umm
[02:28] <Hobbsee> oh, kit's now orko
[02:28] <Hobbsee> but responds to aurora.ubuntuwire
[02:28] <cheguevara> oh yeah imbrandon that suse patch for konq seems to be a bit buggy
[02:28] <imbrandon> ahh ok, orko dosnt have build tools
[02:28] <imbrandon> its people.uw.c
[02:29] <imbrandon> sparky is the only build box atm
[02:29] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:29] <imbrandon> but that will soon change, i have 3 more "in the works" before new years
[02:29] <imbrandon> hopefully
[02:29] <imbrandon> fast fast boxen
[02:29] <Hobbsee> nice
[02:30] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i thought you had a build box with a local mirror attached.
[02:30] <Hobbsee> or that's not public anymore.
[02:31] <imbrandon> its not public anymore ( the isp went under ) but thast one of the 3
[02:31] <imbrandon> will be a local mirror for them all
[02:31] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:31]  * Hobbsee starts uploading them
[02:32] <cheguevara> stdin, right, i think i might try it after all :P
[02:35] <stdin> cheguevara: if you follow the guide http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4 it's quite easy
[02:36] <cheguevara> yeah thats what i was gonna follow
[02:36] <cheguevara> just gotta get .bashrc right to not mess up stuff
[02:37] <stdin> setup another user for it, it'll save you some trouble
[02:38] <cheguevara> yep did that also :P
[02:38] <cheguevara> export KDEDIR=$HOME/kde
[02:38] <cheguevara> ah it installs it all into home
[02:38] <cheguevara> very useful :P
[02:39] <stdin> exactly :p
[02:39] <Hobbsee> bash?  bah humbug.
[02:40] <cheguevara> stdin, any idea if cmake supports -jx
[02:40] <cheguevara> nice make -j2 && \
[02:40] <cheguevara> guess it does
[02:41]  * cheguevara changes to -j3
[02:41] <stdin> cmake is just like ./configure, it still uses make to run the compilation tools
[02:41] <stdin> well, it's not "just like ./configure", but you know what I mean
[02:42] <cheguevara> oh yeah you are right
[02:42] <cheguevara> just made a fool of myself there
[02:42]  * cheguevara hides
[02:44] <Hobbsee> stdin: kdeartwork seems like a waste of time
[02:45] <stdin> it is :p but that's there because I made the .debdiffs with a for loop
[02:46] <Hobbsee> are any others like that?
[02:46]  * Hobbsee writes a loop to download the sources
[02:47] <stdin> nope, that's the only onw
[02:47] <stdin> *one
[02:47] <Hobbsee> good
[02:55] <stdin> Hobbsee: have you uploaded them yet?
[02:55] <Hobbsee> stdin: some
[02:55] <Hobbsee> stdin: i'm australian.  give it time.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> slow connections, big sources.
[02:56] <stdin> hold on for a min, I should check some of the .debs (that just built)
[02:56] <cheguevara> low traffic limits :P
[02:57] <stdin> crap
[02:57] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: it's not my connection.  i'm ssh'd elsewhere
[02:57] <stdin> still didn't work right
[02:57] <cheguevara> ah
[02:57] <Hobbsee> bleh.
[02:57] <cheguevara> good thing i didn't change my revu packages yet
[02:57] <stdin> this is confusing....
[02:57]  * Hobbsee lets the sources build anyway
[02:58] <cheguevara> i think i'll just leave the revu ones as they are, none of them need arguments
[03:01] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, when is the next core dev meeting
[03:02] <cheguevara> if you do those any more
[03:02] <Hobbsee> methinks you're confused
[03:02] <Hobbsee> what do they do at these so called "core dev" meetings?
[03:04] <cheguevara> yeah wrong naming sorry
[03:04] <cheguevara> meant devel team meeting
[03:05] <stdin> Hobbsee: which ones did you upload ?
[03:06] <Hobbsee> stdin: kdea*
[03:06] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: i'm not a canonical person, so i don't have to go.  they're on once a month.  fridge might tell you
[03:06] <stdin> ok, then I only have to bump 2 package versions
[03:07] <cheguevara> yeah, but I'm sure i've seen your name in most of the logs during gutsy dev :P
[03:07] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: some of them, yeah, if i happen to be around for them
[03:07] <cheguevara> but anyway there's a reason why i asked
[03:08] <cheguevara> wanted to suggest to bring up a libungif -> libgif transition some time in the future
[03:08] <cheguevara> since libungif is dead upstream
[03:08] <cheguevara> and most distros use libgif only
[03:10] <Hobbsee> bring it up on ubuntu-devel@
[03:11] <cheguevara> the gif patents are expired all over the world now
[03:14] <cheguevara> actually
[03:14] <cheguevara> nm
[03:14] <cheguevara> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=401287
[03:14] <ubotu> Debian bug 401287 in libgif4 "libungif to libgif transition" [Wishlist,Open]
[03:14] <cheguevara> its ongoing in debian
[03:14] <Hobbsee> even better
[03:14] <Hobbsee> but do it after the tribe 2
[03:15] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, is there a point of me raising it on ubuntu-devel if its already ongoing in debian?
[03:17] <cheguevara> libgif will have to be promoted to main as well
[03:19] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: as a "warning, this is happening", yes, i think so
[03:19] <Hobbsee> also ubuntu-motu@
[03:19] <Hobbsee> as dif has finished
[03:19] <Hobbsee> er, as DIF is in place
[03:20] <cheguevara> kk Hobbsee will do after tribe 2 then
[03:26] <stdin> Hobbsee: diffs have been updated again, and there's also koffice2 in there now
[04:06] <cheguevara> hmmm
[04:06] <cheguevara> apparently kdebase needs xine 1.1.9
[04:06] <cheguevara> when we got 1.1.8 in repos
[04:07] <Hobbsee> speak to siretart
[04:07] <cheguevara> meh xine 1.1.9 is not even out
[04:27] <cheguevara> w00t kdebase failed
[04:33] <nixternal> which kdebase needs a xine higher than we have?
[04:35] <stdin> I think that's the svn version
[04:35] <cheguevara> svn
[04:35] <stdin> heh
[04:35] <cheguevara> + Xine: xine-lib v1.1.8 was found on your system. This version is known to have problems when playing short sounds. Consider upgrading to version 1.1.9 or above. <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9655&package_id=9732>
[04:37]  * stdin notices just how cold it is at 04:37 *shiver*
[04:37] <cheguevara> heh
[04:45] <nixternal> interesting...I just updated earlier and didn't have a problem
[04:50] <cheguevara> isn't xine 1.2.0 the next release anyway
[04:50] <nixternal> have no idea
[04:51] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/823108
[04:52] <cheguevara> guess thats some opengl headers missing
[04:55] <nixternal> hrmm
[04:55]  * nixternal tests and update right now
[05:08] <stdin> Hobbsee: have you started uploading the diffs yet? (nothing wrong with them, just asking this time)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> nope
[05:31] <nixternal> cheguevara: what % did kdebase crash out on you?
[05:31] <nixternal> I am at 18% right now
[05:49] <apachelogger_> omg
[05:49] <apachelogger_> Tm_T: your oxygen port is waaaayyy too old
[05:59] <apachelogger_> meh, the helicopter to school is waiting
[06:04] <nixternal> cheguevara: I just completed the kdebase update w/o any problems from svn
[08:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: sent you the patch for videodvd:/ kio in k3b
[12:06] <mhb> hello to all the silent thinkers
[12:35] <Riddell> must be christmas, Jesus is reporting bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/177442
[12:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177442 in ubiquity "DebconfError" [Undecided,New]
[12:36] <mhb> he's fixing them, too!
[12:36] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:41] <iRon> hi
[13:43] <iRon> Riddell: have you checked user disk mount with kdesu?
[13:52] <Riddell> iRon: no, is it on the same bug?
[13:53] <iRon> yes
[13:54] <Riddell> iRon: I see it, looks nice
[13:55] <Riddell> iRon: the patch is missing halbackend.h ?
[13:56] <iRon> patch only for halbackend.cpp
[13:56] <iRon> there were no need to add methods to class declaration
[14:02] <Riddell> hmm, ok
[14:02] <Riddell> iRon: anything stopping me from just uploading this
[14:02] <Riddell> it might (or might not) get into Alpha 2
[14:02] <iRon> Riddell: no problem for me ;-)
[14:03] <Riddell> groovy, let's try it
[14:04] <iRon> Riddell: i'm working now on bullet-proof-x task..
[14:06] <Riddell> iRon: do you have a real name to credit this to?
[14:07] <iRon> Eugene Tretyak
[14:46] <bddebian> Heya
[15:29] <Lure> apachelogger: I want QLandkarte for Xmas ;-)
[15:29] <apachelogger> *noted*
[15:29] <Lure> apachelogger: http://qlandkarte.sourceforge.net/
[15:29]  * Nightrose wants worls peace and love for all - can you package that santa apachelogger? ;-)
[15:30] <Lure> apachelogger: would need to talk to upstream to improve their release naming
[15:30] <Nightrose> *world
[15:30] <Lure> apachelogger: but they are good in terms of licensing and copyrights in files
[15:30] <Lure> apachelogger: there is getdeb package, but questionable quality
[15:31] <apachelogger> Lure: as usual :S
[15:31] <apachelogger> Nightrose: well, isn't that KDE?!
[15:31] <Nightrose> apachelogger: hmmmm maybe - we will see ;-)
[16:53] <mhb> hello
[16:53] <mhb> how's everyone?
[16:55] <iRon> i got karma 12 :)
[16:56] <mhb> good.
[16:56] <mhb> just 1604 left to beat me :o)
[16:57] <iRon> :)
[16:57] <iRon> it's my first points.. so..
[16:58] <mhb> iRon: congratulations then.
[16:59] <iRon> thanks! :)
[17:02] <jpatrick> iRon: and great work on the patch
[17:16] <MaximLevitsky> I have question about usplash, is it still the default splash system for ubuntu/kubuntu?
[17:16] <Riddell> MaximLevitsky: yes, but #ubuntu-devel will know more than we do
[17:16] <MaximLevitsky> Thanks
[17:16] <Riddell> iRon: have you looked at how bullet proof X works?
[17:17] <Riddell> in gnome I mean
[17:17] <MaximLevitsky> I have kubuntu feisty running here, and usplash giving me lots of trouble
[17:17] <MaximLevitsky> Some cosmetic, and some not
[17:17] <MaximLevitsky> First, who invented the idea of starting usplash by kdm
[17:19] <MaximLevitsky> First, sometimes rc6 scripts run before kdm starts usplash on powerdown, thus I see the console messages, and usplash trying to write over them
[17:20] <Riddell> the usplash developers
[17:20] <MaximLevitsky> I know :-)
[17:20] <Riddell> yes, it's not perfect
[17:20] <MaximLevitsky> And while the above is cosmetic
[17:20] <MaximLevitsky> There is another problem
[17:21] <MaximLevitsky> If I conneect to the system via XDMCP (think Xnest), and close connection
[17:21] <MaximLevitsky> Then suddenly the splash is shown on screen
[17:22] <MaximLevitsky> And if I stop kdm the splash is shown too
[17:22] <mhb> hallelujah!
[17:22] <MaximLevitsky> I "fixed" this by renaming "usplash_down" to "usplash_down_1
[17:23] <mhb> Riddell: it seems jesus also finally installed Drupal for us.
[17:23] <MaximLevitsky> and calling it in /etc/init.d/usplash
[17:23] <Riddell> mhb: hmm?
[17:23] <Riddell> mhb: where's this?
[17:23] <MaximLevitsky> Works perfectly
[17:24] <Riddell> MaximLevitsky: there's no good place for kdm to start usplash, fixes to the patch are welcome
[17:24] <MaximLevitsky> Exactly, but I first need to check whenever this got fixed in gutsy
[17:25] <Riddell> MaximLevitsky: I doubt it, it didn't change
[17:25] <MaximLevitsky> And this why I asked about usplash, maybe ubuntu switched to splashy
[17:26] <MaximLevitsky> Another very non-cosmetic thing is that uswsusp hangs on resume due to usplash (without splash turned in it)
[17:28] <MaximLevitsky> And if I enable splash in uswsusp, then I get nice progress bar (yay!) on suspend/resume, but a messed screen if I power up the system normally
[17:28] <MaximLevitsky> Qute lot of troubels
[17:31] <MaximLevitsky> Btw, I someday will risc updating the system to gutsy, and thus I want to ask, whenever kubunty feisty has automated tools for doing so
[17:32] <MaximLevitsky> I wish thre were no released at all, I could just update the packages when they got released
[17:33] <mhb> ryanakca, nixternal: ping
[17:34] <iRon> Riddell: yep, i've looked at gnome implementation of bullet-proof-x. i'm already started with kdm patching.. :)
[17:35] <Riddell> iRon: excellent
[17:44] <Riddell> ScottK2: do you know if it's possible/sensible to backport a library with a changed ABI?  apachelogger is wanting the new libgpod
[17:44] <ScottK2> Riddell: Generically speaking you have to then either backport upgrades or rebuilds of all the redepends.
[17:45] <ScottK2> So it's a question of how badly you want it.
[17:45] <Riddell> ScottK2: yeah, not nice
[17:45] <ScottK2> apachelogger: If you want practice on this, help me transition clamav to libclamav3 and then backport the rdepends for libclamav to gutsy/feisty.
[17:46] <ScottK2> Riddell: Depending on complexity and what changed, it might be easier to do a source backport with the old ABI grafted onto the new version.
[17:47] <ScottK2> Riddell: FYI, I got a new Dell Latitude D430 laptop yesterday and Kubuntu 7.10 just flat worked out of the box.
[17:47] <ScottK2> I had to do the restricted formats stuff by hand, but that was the only bit that wouldn't have been trivial for a less experienced user.
[17:48] <Riddell> ScottK2: excellent
[17:48] <Riddell> ScottK2: well hopefully restricted formats will be easier in hardy
[17:48] <ScottK2> Yes.
[17:48] <ScottK2> One nice thing about this is the Intel video and wireless are supported with no restricted drivers needed at all.
[17:53] <Riddell> yay, lovely intel
[17:55] <MaximLevitsky> But no support for O/B sensors on my DG965RY motherboard :-)
[17:55] <Riddell> O/B sensors?
[17:55] <MaximLevitsky> Thermal/voltage sensors
[17:55] <MaximLevitsky> Fan speeds
[18:10] <mhb> !away
[18:10] <ubotu> You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines
[18:23] <MaximLevitsky> "Removed kubuntu_55_kdm_usplash_down.diff, usplash is now launched
[18:23] <MaximLevitsky>     via the kdm.init script, modified to launch usplash_down"
[18:23] <MaximLevitsky> Yes!
[18:23] <MaximLevitsky> Fixed in gutsy
[18:35] <mhb> what?
[18:36] <mhb> now it's official, GNOME (planet member) is bonkers.
[18:36] <mhb> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=czechnology
[18:36] <mhb> you really "know" that word in English?
[18:37] <apachelogger> ScottK2: pling pling
[18:39] <ScottK2> Plong
[18:39] <Riddell> mhb: can't say I've ever heard of it
[18:40] <apachelogger> ScottK: do you have time to help us find a solution for libgpod backport?
[18:40] <ScottK> I have a little time for advice.  Not really to work on it.
[18:40] <ScottK> First question is why is it important to backport?
[18:41] <apachelogger> well, we just need a possible path to solution ;-)
[18:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: libgpod 0.6 provides support for new ipods and most important the iphone
[18:41] <apachelogger> and since amarok 1.4.8 can use this functionallity it would make sense to have this available for gutsy
[18:41] <apachelogger> also considering that it still is quite some time until hardy gets out
[18:41] <ScottK> OK.
[18:42] <ScottK> Sounds good, but there's the question of the ABI change then.
[18:42] <apachelogger> I made a wicked minded graphic showing a possible solution without breaking ABI: http://ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/wickedgpod.png
[18:42]  * ScottK looks
[18:43] <ScottK> First issue is we can only backport from an Ubuntu release, so whatever goes in gutsy-backports needs to go in hardy first.
[18:45] <apachelogger> hm, would it be possible to make all the packages reflect the soversion?
[18:45] <Nightrose> you also have to consider that judging from the forums people do a lot of silly things just to get their iphone working - so it would be a good idea (TM) to have an official way
[18:45] <apachelogger> I think this would also help if we need such an action in future again
[18:47] <apachelogger> Nightrose: well, I think we could theoretically backport the packages which depend on libgpod as well
[18:47] <apachelogger> but I really don't think that's all that good working for something like rythmbox
[18:47] <Nightrose> yea I don´t know a solution just saying that it would be a very good idea to do it ;-)
[18:47] <ScottK> Actually this may not be so bad.
[18:48] <ScottK> I only see 9 rdepends.
[18:48] <ScottK> And that includes libgpod-dev
[18:48] <apachelogger> hm
[18:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: can we just take the gutsy version and rebuild it so it fits into -backports?
[18:49] <apachelogger> e.g. rythmbox probably depends quite much on the latest version
[18:50] <ScottK> I would think so.
[18:51] <ScottK> We'd also want to make sure the backported libgpod conflicted with the non-updated dependencies so people didn't mess up by just installing libgdpod from the repositories.
[18:51] <apachelogger> yeah
[18:52] <nixternal> mhb: pong?
[18:53] <ScottK> So what would need to be done is to build a Gutsy version of the new libgpod, rebuild all the gutsy versions of the dependencies against that, and then test them.
[18:53] <apachelogger> yep
[18:53] <apachelogger> though, backporting gtkpod would be a good idea as well
[18:54] <Riddell> ScottK: it's not strictly true that you can only backport from hardy, it is possible to upload directly to -backports
[18:55] <ScottK> Riddell: You can, but it's against the backports policy to do so.
[18:55] <Tm_T> apachelogger: I know, but I like it
[18:55] <ScottK> Yes, we can do a source backport, but it needs to be a modification of something in Hardy already.
[18:55] <apachelogger> Tm_T: ok, just in case I have a recent backport :P
[18:56] <Riddell> ScottK: in this case it seems the sensible thing to do though
[18:56] <Tm_T> apachelogger: those new black arrows aren't cool ;(
[18:56] <apachelogger> lol
[19:00] <apachelogger_> meh
[19:00] <apachelogger> crappy connection :|
[19:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: shall I create a bug report explaining the plan?
[19:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: Sure.  Make sure to file it under gutsy-backports and not the affected packages.
[19:02] <apachelogger> of course :)
[19:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: thanks for the consult ;-)
[19:03] <ScottK> No problem.
[19:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: I notice that in Gutsy there's a new libgpod-nogtk.  Do we want to rebuild amarok against that?
[19:04] <apachelogger> well
[19:04] <apachelogger> we want, but doesn't make much difference
[19:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: 1.4.8 is going to be released tomorrow
[19:05] <apachelogger> so I think we should just backport it to the gutsy libgpod
[19:05] <apachelogger> and once we have the new one in gutsy-backports just rebuild/rebackport
[19:06] <ScottK> apachelogger:  OK.
[19:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, you can get the build machine going already
[19:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: the what?
[19:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: the "we-want-amarok-148-for-gutsy-process"
[19:07] <apachelogger> man, I need more sleep
[19:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: get the packages built/backported/built
[19:10] <nixternal> santa apachelogger, can you package me up a new car?
[19:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm about to go out
[19:10] <apachelogger> nixternal: puh, now that is going to be some work -.-
[19:11] <nixternal> hehe
[19:11] <Riddell> maybe someone else could do it
[19:11] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[19:11] <apachelogger> who can? :)
[19:11] <steveire> Anyone know why libxine depends on gnome now?
[19:11] <apachelogger> steveire: packaging bug I'd say
[19:11] <nixternal> steveire: it didn't depend on it the other day when we were working on it
[19:11] <nixternal> did another version get into the repos I wonder
[19:12] <nixternal> if anything, I thought we removed a gnome dep
[19:12] <apachelogger> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libs/libxine1
[19:13] <steveire> I think libxine1 depends on libxine1-gnome
[19:13] <steveire> Oh, I'm on gutsy btw
[19:13] <nixternal> interesting
[19:14] <apachelogger> steveire: that makes it even more weird :P
[19:14] <apachelogger> nixternal: do ye have upload rights in m-a-i-n?
[19:15] <steveire> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/libs/libxine1-plugins Sorry, that's where the gnome dep comes in
[19:15] <nixternal> libxine1-all-plugins is the only one that depends on libxine1-gnome
[19:16] <nixternal> more than likely some of the plugins are for gnome
[19:16] <steveire> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libs/libxine1-plugins depends on libxone1-gnome too
[19:16] <nixternal> libxine1-plugins in hardy doesn't dep on gnome, only the all-plugins
[19:16] <nixternal> libxine1-plugins only suggest gnome
[19:17] <steveire> ah right, so I see. Missed that
[19:17] <steveire> Would that package be backported to gutsy?
[19:18] <Riddell> steveire: shouldn't do any more, it only Suggests the gnome stuff
[19:18] <steveire> Riddell: Not on gutsy though
[19:19] <Riddell> Nightrose: are you still booking rooms for fosdem?
[19:19] <Nightrose> Riddell: I am
[19:19] <Nightrose> you coming too?
[19:20] <Riddell> Nightrose: I am, are you able to book a room for me still
[19:20] <Nightrose> Riddell: cool
[19:20] <Nightrose> Riddell: we have not yet booked anything
[19:20] <Riddell> Nightrose: where are you booking them?
[19:20] <Nightrose> and will probably do it after christmas
[19:20] <Nightrose> not sure yet
[19:20] <Nightrose> we are still looking
[19:21] <Nightrose> any sugestions or wishes?
[19:21]  * Nightrose is really looking forward to fosdem :)
[19:21] <Nightrose> will be fun
[19:24] <Nightrose> Riddell: so I will put you on the list as well and get back to you as soon as we have found something we like - probably shortly after christmas - is that ok for you?
[19:24] <Riddell> Nightrose: yes, great, thanks
[19:24] <Nightrose> Riddell: and if you know any good hotel/house/.. please tell me ;-)
[19:27] <Riddell> Nightrose: Kenny Duffus (sealne) would also like to have a bed booked
[19:27] <Riddell> on fri+sat+sun if possible he says
[19:27] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok
[19:27] <Nightrose> yep
[19:27]  * apachelogger is wondering
[19:27] <apachelogger> Nightrose: am I going to FOSDEM as well? :P
[19:28] <Nightrose> apachelogger: not yet - you want to come as well?
[19:28] <apachelogger> I dunno, that's why I'm asking :P
[19:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: you're not down on http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=FOSDEM2008
[19:28]  * apachelogger asks the mighty google calendar
[19:28] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ;-) well we are already a lot but you are always welcome - you know that
[19:29] <apachelogger> Nightrose: honey I'm the most important guy amarok has right now :P
[19:29] <Nightrose> *g* I know
[19:30] <Riddell> apachelogger: imbrandon has done amarok in the past
[19:30] <apachelogger> to my very surprise it actually seems I have time
[19:30] <apachelogger> imbrandon: pling pling
[19:31] <apachelogger> way to go
[19:31] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I'm attending as well I guess
[19:31] <Nightrose> apachelogger: wohoooo
[19:31] <Nightrose> apachelogger: I will add you to the wikis
[19:31] <apachelogger> I have holidays the week before
[19:31] <apachelogger> meh wiki_s_ -.-
[19:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: how many are there?
[19:32] <Nightrose> rokymotion and kde
[19:32] <Nightrose> I try to keep as much as possible in kde wiki
[19:32] <Nightrose> for fosdem
[19:32] <apachelogger> well, I can add myself then :P
[19:32] <Nightrose> ok
[19:32] <apachelogger> just toss the urls over
[19:32] <Nightrose> sec
[19:33] <mhb> nixternal: still interested in the new Kubuntu site?
[19:33] <nixternal> yes'sir
[19:33] <nixternal> let me rephrase that, 'SIR YES SIR!'
[19:33] <Nightrose> apachelogger: http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=FOSDEM2008 and http://rokymotion.pwsp.net/wiki/Events
[19:34]  * apachelogger just hopes he doesn't kill the tiki
[19:34] <nixternal> I need to do some type of coding now that all of my coding classes are complete, otherwise I might just blow up
[19:34] <apachelogger> that thing is super vragile :S
[19:34] <mhb> nixternal: unless our Riddelly friend objects, I can get you an account to the Drupal site the admins finally set up.
[19:34] <mhb> so we can migrate content as well as the theme (which is mostly done now)
[19:35] <nixternal> groovy
[19:35] <Riddell> I'd entirely encourage it
[19:35] <nixternal> mhb: so Riddell is our friend again? :p  he came back, so I guess all is well :)
[19:35] <nixternal> that was still funny the other night
[19:36] <mhb> .o)
[19:36] <nixternal> the gullability of this channel was high :)
[19:36] <mhb> he's still alive and kicking the ball for us.
[19:37] <nixternal> hehe, I still get a giggle every now and then though thinking about it...he was in all of his channels but this one, so people really believed it
[19:37] <nixternal> glad we stopped it before it ended up on OSNews, /., or Digg
[19:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: yay, I broke it -.-
[19:37] <Nightrose> apachelogger: *g* seen it already
[19:37]  * apachelogger repairs
[19:37] <apachelogger> bah, I hate tiki
[19:37] <Nightrose> apachelogger: don´t forget to add yourself to the list at the bottom for rooms
[19:38] <nixternal> apachelogger: you can create some pretty damn good packages, but you can't manipulate the wiki all that well...disturbing :p
[19:38] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe yea - that would have been fun
[19:40] <apachelogger> nixternal: I can't create crap packages either :P
[19:40] <apachelogger> Nightrose: bettha?
[19:40] <Nightrose> ?
[19:40] <Nightrose> honey what do you want from me? *g*
[19:41] <apachelogger> Nightrose: Does the page, I just broke, look better now, or is it even more broken?
[19:41] <iRon> Riddell: found a bug with user disk mounting.. i have a ntfs partition with files in cp1251 encoding. when i mount partition with `mount' command -- i could see this files. but when i mount with `dbus-send' -- i'm not.
[19:41] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ahhhh lemme check
[19:41] <Nightrose> apachelogger: yes better
[19:41] <iRon> i guess it is a HAL issue?
[19:41] <Nightrose> apachelogger: you also want to stay sunday night?
[19:41] <Riddell> iRon: possibly, you'd need to try it in nautilus to see if that has the same problem
[19:42] <iRon> Riddell: ok
[19:42] <apachelogger> Nightrose: meh, lemme check the flights first :P
[19:42] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ok
[19:42]  * apachelogger gives Nightrose a cookie while she's waiting
[19:42] <Nightrose> *g*
[19:42] <Nightrose> thx
[19:42] <apachelogger> hm
[19:43] <apachelogger> where is fosdem anyway? :P
[19:43] <Nightrose> brussels
[19:43] <Nightrose> as you can read at the top of the wiki page ;-)
[19:43] <nixternal> hahaha
[19:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: you havn't been?  it's like the bestest free software do ever
[19:43] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:43] <nixternal> can we move fosdem up a couple of months so I am totally out of school by then? :)
[19:44] <Nightrose> nixternal: sure - for you we can do that ;-)
[19:44] <nixternal> wooohooo :)
[19:44]  * Nightrose calls the fosdem people
[19:44] <Tm_T> Nightrose: you are already totally out
[19:44] <nixternal> hahaha, prepare for them to laugh in your face for that one
[19:44] <Tm_T> nixternal: even
[19:44] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: nope, when I started off with visiting events with the akademy last year, I got kinda afraid
[19:44] <apachelogger> so much beer
[19:45] <nixternal> ya, or you can move fosdem up to next week...actually that won't work...gotta update my passport
[19:45] <nixternal> which means I have to pay off a lot of parking tickets first
[19:45] <Nightrose> oO
[19:46] <nixternal> ya, didn't know they would deny your passport update if you owe more than $1000 :)
[19:46] <mhb> Riddell: any news about the next UDS?
[19:46] <nixternal> mhb: top secret, if he tell you, well you know what comes next
[19:46] <Nightrose> nixternal: outch
[19:46] <mhb> well I am a terrorist, he can tell me.
[19:47] <nixternal> hahahahhahaa
[19:47]  * apachelogger is wondering whether he gets discounts for UDS
[19:47] <nixternal> apachelogger: $2 off any meal
[19:47] <apachelogger> woohooo
[19:47] <apachelogger> I knew there was something special about being a motu
[19:47] <Riddell> mhb: nothing yet
[19:47] <mhb> nixternal: I wanted to know the location ... North Korea or Iran would be lovely
[19:47] <Nightrose> apachelogger: now that you are attending fosdem you can order that ubuntu merch for me and bring it with you ;-)
[19:47] <nixternal> hahahaha
[19:48] <apachelogger> Nightrose: pfff
[19:48] <apachelogger> hm
[19:48] <apachelogger> do I actually have to take clothes with me?
[19:48] <nixternal> no, fosdem is the secret name of a free software "nudist camp"
[19:48] <nixternal> no clothes allowed
[19:49] <nixternal> as long as stallman isn't there, everything should be fine
[19:49] <Nightrose> haha wasn´t the amarok channel party already supposed to be that?
[19:49] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I only had 2 shirts!
[19:50] <Nightrose> apachelogger: so? bring two for fosdem as well ;-)
[19:50] <apachelogger> too much
[19:50] <Nightrose> nah
[19:50] <apachelogger> for the channel party I only had to go by train
[19:50] <Nightrose> two is fin
[19:50] <Nightrose> e
[19:50] <apachelogger> for fosdem I have to go by train, bus and plane
[19:50] <apachelogger> just imagine how much work that would be with 2 shirts!
[19:50] <Nightrose> oO honey!!!
[19:51]  * apachelogger notes that he hates going to vienna for flying
[19:51] <apachelogger> hmm
[19:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: get a train
[19:51] <Riddell> save the planet
[19:51]  * nixternal notes he hates flying in general
[19:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: I usually let someone plan trees when I fly
[19:52] <apachelogger> <-- hates traveling in general
[19:52] <apachelogger> why can't we just do fosdem in my basement?
[19:52] <nixternal> I love traveling, but not by way of the friendly skies
[19:52] <nixternal> it isn't the sky that worries me, its the ground :p
[19:53]  * Nightrose loves traveling by train first class - just rarely get to do it :(
[19:54] <nixternal> I have taken the Amtrak a couple of times on trips, and it is kind of fun, only when I get one of their super duper rooms though
[19:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: do I have a budget for traveling as a MOTU?
[19:54] <nixternal> I swear, one of my trips, the room on the train I stayed in was bigger than my flat at the time
[19:54] <nixternal> apachelogger: you can get sponsored
[19:54] <apachelogger> even first class? ;-)
[19:55] <nixternal> typically only once
[19:55] <nixternal> no, you get ride with the luggage and when you arrive at uds they give you a box
[19:55] <apachelogger> in my whole life?   Will that be a regular thing?
[21:07]  * ardchoille crosses fingers
[21:08] <nosrednaekim> where is that setting for the default KDEWM?
[21:08] <ardchoille> system settings > appearance > window decorations?
[21:08] <jpatrick> ardchoille: if you can think of new ideas, yes
[21:09] <ardchoille> jpatrick: I will try
[21:09] <ardchoille> jpatrick: However, the first one did hit the best topics :)
[21:09] <nosrednaekim> ardchoille: I mean the actual file....i'm writing the compiz-configuration program
[21:10] <jpatrick> ardchoille: yes, that was delibate to get everyone hyper
[21:10] <nosrednaekim> never mind... it was in the wiki ;)
[21:10] <ardchoille> jpatrick: hehe
[21:11] <ardchoille> nosrednaekim: ~/.kde/share/config/kwinrc ?
[21:11] <ardchoille> jpatrick: I'm very good with documentation.. perhaps a docs tutorial? I'm not sure if the docs need to be in text or latex or what. Can they be in html?
[21:12] <ardchoille> I know that documentation is a cery important thing, at least I feel that way. But when I unpack some of the docs, they are in several diff formats sometimes. Is there a standard?
[21:12] <jpatrick> ardchoille: they're in docbook/xml, you best poke nixternal for that
[21:12] <ardchoille> If there were a standard, I'd learn it and start writing as many docs as I could.
[21:12] <ardchoille> Ah, ok
[21:12] <ardchoille> So, I need to learn docbook/xml
[21:12] <jpatrick> but, yes LaTeX and DocBook rock
[21:13] <mhb> they totally do.
[21:13] <mhb> documentation is something of a mystery to me.
[21:13] <ardchoille> Ok, are there gui's for those? Or do I just need to learn all the tags and use kate?
[21:14] <ardchoille> Wow, lots of tags tolearn
[21:14] <mhb> you should generate a ton of paper describing stuff that nobody will read.
[21:14] <jpatrick> I used Kate in my doc writing days..
[21:14] <ardchoille> mhb: There seems to be too many people doing that already, don't think they need help :)
[21:14]  * jpatrick <3 kate
[21:14] <ardchoille> Yeah, kate rocks
[21:15] <mhb> user documentation makes no sense to me.
[21:15] <mhb> short, to the point API descriptions rock.
[21:15] <jpatrick> mhb: not everyone is telepathic
[21:15] <jpatrick> err, that too^
[21:15] <mhb> jpatrick: do you read the TV manual often?
[21:16] <jpatrick> mhb: don't watch TV
[21:16] <mhb> jpatrick: microwave?
[21:16] <ardchoille> Recently I was trying to write a doc for an app but found that docs already written, they were just in the wrong location and didn't appear in khelpcenter until I moved them to the proper location
[21:16] <jpatrick> mhb: ain't got a microwave
[21:16] <jpatrick> ardchoille: let me guess.. katapult
[21:16] <imbrandon> apachelogger: pong
[21:17] <ardchoille> jpatrick: I believe it was kommander
[21:17] <jpatrick> ah, right
[21:18] <mhb> jpatrick: hmm, do you own anything besides a computer? :o)
[21:18] <jpatrick> mhb: well... no
[21:18] <nixternal> ardchoille: kubuntu-docs uses docbook/xml, and we use the .xml filetype...kde-docs are docbook/xml and use the .docbook filetype
[21:19] <jpatrick> not that I need anything else
[21:19] <nixternal> .docbook files can be read and parsed in khelpcenter. .xml files need to be built to HTML first before they can be read in khc
[21:19] <ardchoille> nixternal: Any advice on writing docs as far as the tags? I don't think it would be productive to learn all the tags. Is there a template somewhere?
[21:20] <nixternal> not really...you can go through the docs and see which tags we typically use
[21:20] <ardchoille> Ah, ok.. that works
[21:21] <nixternal> we use quite a bit of the tags, but you can see there is a repetive use of certain tags
[21:21] <ardchoille> Yeah
[21:22] <mhb> jpatrick: software should be so simple that you don't need a manual.
[21:22] <mhb> tips & tricks on making it work better, could be.
[21:22] <mhb> but definitely no manual.
[21:23] <mhb> you should know right away what to do.
[21:23] <jpatrick> yep
[21:25] <mhb> I dare to say that community contributions into documentation (the "old-school" one) are easily wasted.
[21:26] <mhb> nixternal and the friends rewrite the Kubuntu documentation quite a lot for just a few dozens of people (my estimates)
[21:29] <mhb> I really appreciate what they are doing
[21:29] <mhb> but we should think of ways to make apps more accessible, easy and fun to use instead .o)
[21:33] <nixternal> mhb: that would be fine if our audience were all equal, but they are not, so you have to cater to all
[21:36] <mhb> it's kind of hard to do that.
[21:36] <mhb> ever considered the IKEA solution?
[21:36] <mhb> :o)
[21:38] <nixternal> the ikea solution?
[21:38] <nixternal> it would be impossible to write something like KDE and not have documentation for it
[21:39] <nixternal> w/o docs you are telling the user to figure it out
[21:39] <ardchoille> I, for one, rely heavily on docs
[21:39] <mhb> ardchoille: do you? that's good to hear.
[21:39] <ardchoille> And I have an 8 year old neice who does too
[21:40] <ardchoille> She has been using Linux for a couple years and she wouldn't be where she is without the docs
[21:40] <nixternal> and so do a ton of others who love filing bugs against the documentation
[22:13]  * manchicken +1's docs.
[22:14] <Tm_T> docs <3
[22:14] <Tm_T> writing </3
[22:15] <manchicken> It'd be kinda silly to abandon either the goal of making your application instantly usable by any user without docs, or the goal of having enough documentation to help users figure things out.
[22:16] <Tm_T> both goals are good
[22:16] <Tm_T> and should be parallel
[22:16] <Tm_T> not opposite sides
[22:16] <manchicken> Exactly.
[22:17] <manchicken> Because my mother-in-law wants to be able to have the app be so simple that it slaps her in the face with simplicity, but my father-in-law wants to read about it for a couple hours before using it.
[22:17] <manchicken> And both are equally valid perspectives.
[22:17] <manchicken> Except when my father-in-law starts asking me Windows questions.  Then we've gone too far.
[22:18] <manchicken> The old RTFM certainly has its place, especially for folks who don't have access to the internet.
[22:19] <Tm_T> also Manuals are <3
[22:19] <manchicken> They can be.
[22:19] <manchicken> Especially if they're well done.
[22:19]  * cheguevara_ reminds jpatrick to poke revu uploads
[22:20]  * jpatrick fetchs the LongPointyStick for cheguevara_'s request
[22:20]  * cheguevara_ reminds jpatrick that only Hobbse is allowed to use that
[22:23] <ryanakca> mhb: pong
[22:23] <Tm_T> manchicken: http://www.tm-travolta.net/tekstit/annoying-user.txt
[22:25] <manchicken> Tm_T: Wow.  Sounds like someone's off their medication.
[22:26] <Tm_T> manchicken: how so?
[22:26] <manchicken> Tm_T: Calling you an annoying user guy... heh
[22:26] <Tm_T> manchicken: ah, it's a joke :))
[22:26] <manchicken> heh
[22:27] <Tm_T> also old one
[22:27] <jpatrick> cheguevara_: ktorrent-kde4 approved and uploaded
[22:29] <cheguevara_> w00t
[22:30]  * cheguevara_ wonders how long it'll now be sitting in the New queue
[22:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: you are on?
[22:32] <Tm_T> manchicken: you have any pokings to KDE websites?
[22:32] <manchicken> Tm_T: What you mean?
[22:32] <Tm_T> manchicken: I should find out what licence is with pics in kde.org site
[22:33] <jpatrick> cheguevara_: same with kmldonkey-kde4
[22:33] <cheguevara_> jpatrick, thanks!
[22:34] <manchicken> Tm_T: Why's that?
[22:34] <Tm_T> manchicken: if I use em in blogpost, I might not be able use some licence with my post entirely if pics needs different
[22:36]  * txwikinger wonders how missing icons in KDE menus should be handled when the icons in gnome are bundled in some artwork package
[22:39] <manchicken> Tm_T: In the US we have a thing called "Fair Use," where if someone is using content for purpose of discussing something (e.g. using a video game logo to discuss a video game) whether good or bad, they have certain rights to do so.
[22:39] <manchicken> Tm_T: I would think most countries that respect freedom of speech would have something similar.
[22:40] <Tm_T> manchicken: roger, we figured out that we just mention the source, that's it
[22:41] <manchicken> Fair enough.
[22:41] <manchicken> I rarely source my images because most of the ones I use are found on so many sites it would be impossible to source them all :)
[22:41] <jpatrick> cheguevara_: I'll 'poke' the rest tomorrow
[22:42] <cheguevara_> kk cool jpatrick, don't forget stdin's ones as well :P
[22:43] <jpatrick> cheguevara_: of course, it's just that is's late right now ;)
[22:44] <cheguevara_> yeah cool
[22:44] <cheguevara_> thanks a lot :)
[22:45] <jpatrick> no, thank you :)
[22:46] <cheguevara_> i am too scared of people in #ubuntu-motu
[22:46] <cheguevara_> persia will start telling me to add watch files just for one release and what not :P
[22:48] <jpatrick> that's policy
[22:48]  * jpatrick hides
[22:49] <cheguevara_> yeah but in some cases its just not feasible
[22:49] <cheguevara_> one thing is when you modify the tarball for-ever to say strip non dfsg parts
[22:49] <cheguevara_> another thing when you know there's gonna be a fixed tarball in like 2 weeks :P
[23:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: did anyone look at amarok?
[23:32] <Nightrose> Riddell: he already went to bed
[23:33] <Riddell> Nightrose: do you know what time the amarok release is expected?
[23:34] <Nightrose> some time tomorrow - i´d say around 12 utc but that is not fixed
[23:34] <Nightrose> whenever harald finds the time to do it and we have everything ready
[23:35] <nixternal> ooh, new amarok release! new features, anything super cool to look forward to?
[23:35] <Nightrose> nixternal: mainly bugfixes and if we get it done a fix for the new ipods
[23:36] <Nightrose> but it´s not easy to get into kubuntu it seems
[23:36] <nixternal> why is that?
[23:36] <Nightrose> libgpod needs an update with ABI changes
[23:36] <Riddell> in gutsy she means
[23:36] <Nightrose> yea
[23:37] <nixternal> who uses gutsy anyways :p
[23:37]  * Nightrose does :P
[23:38] <cheguevara_> :P
[23:40] <Nightrose> oh and skipping in last.fm streams should work again IIRC (don´t use them myself)
[23:41] <nixternal> ahh, I do and that was annoying
[23:41] <nixternal> I just noticed the other day actually
[23:41] <Nightrose> hehe
[23:41] <nixternal> I listen to my neighbors radio stream on last.fm...people have some different tastes in music that's for sure
[23:42] <Nightrose> hehe yea
[23:42] <Riddell> oh nixternal, do you have time for an alpha 2 page?
[23:42] <nixternal> ooh, I am going to go see River Dancers on Saturday
[23:42] <nixternal> Riddell: when I get home I will pimp it out...already in the works :)
[23:45] <Riddell> nixternal: you're my hero
[23:45] <nixternal> as you are mine :)
[23:45] <Riddell> nixternal: iron's user hard disk mounting should have got in
[23:45] <Riddell> iRon
[23:45] <nixternal> roger that
[23:45] <Nightrose> hehe so many heroes here ;-)
[23:46] <Nightrose> nice to be around them *g*
[23:46] <nixternal> I am far from a hero, but I will take the compliment :)
[23:46]  * Nightrose feels safe
[23:46] <nixternal> haha
[23:46] <Nightrose> heh
[23:49] <steveire> Does anyone here have the qt demo apps? I've got a qtextedit bug, but I don't know if it's qt4.3.2 or kubuntu. Does kubuntu patch qt much?