[00:53] <lucas> hi
[00:54] <lucas> I created a mailing list for a team. it seems people outside the team cannot send mail to it. is that correct? is there a way to change that?
[01:23] <JoshBrown> "<Penguin_Guy> Is the bug email interface guide ( https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface ) correct? I tried changing the status using the method in that guide and the text appeared in my post (https://bugs.launchpad.net/codemonkey/+bug/589177/comments/1)."
[01:23] <JoshBrown> ...
[01:23] <JoshBrown> "<Penguin_Guy> bac: The only thing I could think of was if the guide was wrong or out of date. That's why I was looking for someone who uses the email interface regularly. I'll try some more Google searches and see what I can find. Thanks for the help."
[01:23] <JoshBrown> "<bac> Penguin_Guy: ok.  if you would, follow up with me here if you figure it out and i'll update the doc if needed."
[01:24] <JoshBrown> Well I've done some testing and it looks like the email commands appear in the original post, and then are executed automatically in a second post. This seems like strange behaviour and should either be reported as a bug or be commented on in the documentation (the documentation indicates that the commands are be executed in the same post, and that the commands themselves do not appear in the post).
[01:27] <wgrant> JoshBrown: The email commands do appear, yes.
[01:27] <wgrant> It's not a second post, though -- it's just how the UI displays it.
[01:28] <wgrant> The former is expected behaviour.
[01:28] <wgrant> I didn't know about the latter, though,.
[01:28] <wgrant> It's not clear if that's intentional.
[01:30] <JoshBrown> wgrant: Oh, I thought the UI displayed it as it was and the email interface batched the emails.
[01:30] <JoshBrown> wgrant: Do you know the reason for including the commands?
[01:30] <wgrant> JoshBrown: I don't know. The email interface hasn't changed significantly in 5ish years.
[01:31] <wgrant> Somewhat before my time.
[01:32] <wgrant> But it was probably modelled on the Debian BTS, which does the same thing.
[01:32] <JoshBrown> bug #424849 (Launchpad should batch attachment notification emails) has been quite active recently
[01:32] <wgrant> Right. That's just for attachments, though.
[01:38] <lifeless> lucas: non subscribers sending mail to the list address should have their mail moderated
[01:39] <lifeless> JoshBrown: please don't do testing on launchpad - use staging.launchpad.net instead.
[01:39] <JoshBrown> lifeless: Yeah, just been told
[01:39] <JoshBrown> lifeless: He started it :P
[01:42] <davidstrauss> TooManyConcurrentRequests: The medium 'SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://davidstrauss@bazaar.launchpad.net/)' has reached its concurrent request limit. Be sure to finish_writing and finish_reading on the currently open request.
[01:44] <thumper> davidstrauss: what were you doing?
[01:44] <davidstrauss> thumper, committing
[01:45] <thumper> davidstrauss: you have a checkout?
[01:45] <davidstrauss> yes
[01:45] <thumper> why?
[01:45] <thumper> hmm....
[01:46] <davidstrauss> thumper, oh, this was an issue with my ssh key
[01:46] <thumper> #bzr might have more answers
[01:46] <davidstrauss> thumper, but it shouldn't give a backtrace like that
[01:46] <thumper> davidstrauss: it was?
[01:46] <thumper> you are right, it shouldn't give a backtrace like that
[01:47] <JoshBrown> Committing straight to a  remote branch? Usually people commit to a local branch then push the local branch to the remote branch.
[01:47] <thumper> JoshBrown: bound branches are a great way to enforce "lock-step" developing, like svn
[01:47] <thumper> JoshBrown: often used for trunk branches
[01:48] <davidstrauss> thumper, we also use them for teams working on feature branches
[01:50] <wgrant> Bound branches are great for a team working closely on trunk without using branches for small things.
[01:54] <JoshBrown> Ah.
[02:04] <lifeless> or just for a team to do merges of other contributors stuff
[02:05] <lifeless> it provides coordination on stuff landing in trunk
[02:08] <lucas> lifeless: is it possible to allow non-subscribers to send email without being moderated? or should I ask for a @lists.ubuntu.com list instead so I can configure it?
[02:09] <bdrung> i can change the status for merge request that target ubuntu/<package>, but i can't change the status for merge request that target ubuntu/<series>/<package>. is this a bug? if yes, against which project should i file the bug?
[02:10] <wgrant> bdrung: Which MPs in particular?
[02:10] <lifeless> lucas: I don't know, sorry.
[02:10] <lifeless> lucas: but, separately, *all* ubuntu lists are meant to be on l.u.c anyway
[02:12] <bdrung> wgrant: for example https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/lucid/qemu-kvm/memleak-fix/+merge/28645
[02:14] <lifeless> bdrung: it will be because lucid is released, I suspect.
[02:14] <lifeless> bdrung: please file a bug
[02:14] <bdrung> lifeless: against which project?
[02:14] <lifeless> launchpad-code
[02:15] <lifeless> it would make sense to me that you be able to retarget it to lucid-proposed, or maverick, as appropriate.
[02:16] <wgrant> Right, there's a known issue with that. You can't easily propose against lucid-proposed, because it doesn't have a branch until it has its first change.
[02:16] <wgrant> I don't think anybody knows the right way to solve this for UDD.
[02:17] <lifeless> so, a) file a bug
[02:17] <bdrung> wgrant: my problem is, that these merge proposals will be shown in the sponsors list
[02:23] <bdrung> lifeless: opened bug #612391
[02:23] <lifeless> thanks
[02:24] <bdrung> lifeless: np - that's my part to get it fixed
[02:25] <jeremiah> So launchpad is open in the sense that I can run a separate instance, correct?
[02:26] <bdrung> yes
[02:26] <jeremiah> I'd like to build AMR v7 debs - that should be no problem correct?
[02:26] <jeremiah> i.e. I understand there are some particular binary blobs from various vendors, i.e. Freescale et. al.
[02:27] <bdrung> isn't an own instance of launchpad an overkill for that?
[02:27] <jeremiah> bdrung: Yeah, maybe.
[02:27] <jeremiah> The thing is, we'd be setting it up for the GENIVI consortium
[02:27] <bdrung> jeremiah: why not setup pbuilder or sbuild or something similar for that task?
[02:27] <jeremiah> bdrung: sbuild might be the way to go
[02:28] <jeremiah> The thing is, debian doesn't build for ARM v7
[02:28] <jeremiah> And I thought that there was some secret sauce in launchpad or Ubuntu that enabled an ARM v7 build
[02:28] <bdrung> jelmer: for what do they build?
[02:28] <jeremiah> But I'm happy to be disabused of that notion
[02:28] <lifeless> jeremiah: http://www.genivi.org/ ?
[02:28] <jeremiah> lifeless: Yes.
[02:28] <lifeless> jeremiah: you might want to talk with the lenovo folk
[02:29] <jeremiah> bdrung: If you were asking me, Debian builds for ARM v4 and v5
[02:29] <lifeless> jeremiah: they are putting a bunch of work into launchpad for deployments in the lenovo partners
[02:29] <jeremiah> Lenovo?
[02:29] <jeremiah> Hmm, didn't know that.
[02:29] <lifeless> bah
[02:29] <lifeless> EBRAINFAIL
[02:29] <jeremiah> :)
[02:29] <jeremiah> ENOTENOUGHBACON
[02:29] <lifeless> http://www.linaro.org/
[02:29] <lifeless> linaro of course
[02:29] <jeremiah> Ah, yeah, Linaro
[02:32] <wgrant> jeremiah: There's nothing magical about Launchpad's build system at all.
[02:32] <wgrant> It's just a hacked version of sbuild.
[02:32] <wgrant> We build for v7 merely because Ubuntu's toolchain does.
[02:32] <wgrant> Nothing to do with LP.
[02:33] <jeremiah> wgrant: Ah, okay. Thanks.
[02:33] <jeremiah> You can tell I am a tiny bit confused.
[02:36] <jeremiah> So, what would I have to do to build ARM v7 sources?
[02:36] <jeremiah> I can run sbuild locally, I'm kind of familiar with debian's toolchain
[02:36] <jeremiah> So that shouldn't be an issue
[02:37] <jeremiah> I just want to ascertain the delta between debian's ARM v5 toolchain and Ubuntu's ARM v7
[02:37] <wgrant> I don't know. You'd have to ask the Ubuntu ARM or toolchain people.
[02:38] <jeremiah> okay, is there a #ubuntu-arm channel?
[02:38] <wgrant> There is indeed.
[02:38] <jeremiah> w00t
[02:51] <nigelb> wgrant: poke?
[02:51] <wgrant> nigelb: Hi.
[02:51] <nigelb> PM?
[02:51] <wgrant> Sure.
[08:33] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: I suppose there is a problem with the diff-generating system again
[08:33] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: Howso?
[08:34] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/ubiquity/fix-492825
[08:34] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: for some reason, it is scanning the branch from a long time and the merge proposal is also extracting diff from a long time
[08:34] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: How long ago did you last push the branch?
[08:35] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: 5+ minutes
[08:35] <wgrant> The lack of diff is probably because it hasn't been scanned yet.
[08:35] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: but, its scanning since the last 6 minutes or so
[08:35] <wgrant> That's abnormally long, but not yet cause for panic.
[08:36]  * bilalakhtar will ping wgrant if it keeps scanning for another 5 minutes
[08:37] <spm> bilalakhtar: probably best not to ping wgrant, he can't actually fix anything directly[1]. :-)  [1] indirectly is a different issue
[08:37] <wgrant> Right, I can only whinge at LOSAs. :P
[08:37] <wgrant> Very loudly, mind you.
[08:37] <spm> and we all have wrant on ignore; so win-win all round :-P
[08:38] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: You pushed the branch up normally?
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: yes
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: but, the branch is not in the same repo format as the one on which it is stacked
[08:41] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: is that a cause of concern?
[08:41] <spm> looks like the merge-proposal job has re-suffered bug 605772
[08:41] <wgrant> spm: really? That's not the main problem here.
[08:41] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: Yes, that branch is broken.
[08:42] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: I'm surprised it even let you push it.
[08:42] <spm> wgrant: it's been wheel spinning for about 2.5 hours.  may not be THE problem, but is a problem.
[08:42] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: see this paste
[08:42] <spm> wgrant: oh dear, now it's working on one of yours. we're doomed.
[08:43] <wgrant> spm: Heh.
[08:43] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: Which paste?
[08:43] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: just a minute, I paste it to pastebin
[08:43] <wgrant> It seems to be 2a stacked on something non-richroot.
[08:43] <wgrant> Which is not going to work.
[08:45] <wgrant> spm: Ah, that explains why my MP mail is lagging too, I guess.
[08:45] <spm> wgrant: probably
[08:46] <spm> hrm. that /ignore thing doesn't seem to be working.... how odd.
[08:46] <wgrant> Heh.
[09:10] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: spm: the paste is here http://pastebin.com/n0vkTCGg
[09:11] <wgrant> It's probably a bzr bug that it let you do that.
[09:18] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: so, what should I do? delete branch and push again?
[09:19] <wgrant> bilalakhtar: If you want the branch to be merged, you'll have to recreate it in another format.
[09:19] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: so I should push it, standalone this time?
[09:19] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: would that do it?
[09:20] <bilalakhtar> wgrant: g2g
[09:20] <bilalakhtar> .quit
[09:20] <wgrant> Well.
[09:20] <wgrant> Handy.
[11:57] <maxo> is there a way to grab code off launchpad without having to branch it using bazaar?
[11:59] <maxb> Only if the project in question is making release tarballs available
[12:00] <maxo> maxb: i'm trying to use bazaar, but where I work the ISA server is blocking it. I get - Unable to handle http code 407: Proxy Authentication Required ( The ISA Server requires authorization to fulfill the request. Access to the Web Proxy service is denied.  ) - which is strange, because I'm using Windows and generally it's set up so all software can get thru
[12:01] <maxb> hmm. sounds like a weird evil microsoft issue :-)
[12:02] <maxb> What's the exact URL you're branching?
[12:18] <maxo> maxb: yes it's typical non-standardised evil microsoft stuff :-( was trying to get lp:xibo/1.0
[12:18] <maxb> maxo: Right, it's possible the problem is in the xmlrpc request to resolve the lp: url rather than the bzr transfer itself
[12:19] <maxb> You should try manually looking up the full name of the branch in the web UI and bzr branching http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~whatever/xibo/something
[12:20] <maxo> maxb: yes I tried with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xibo-maintainers/xibo/halley/files but had the same problem
[12:20] <maxb> uh
[12:20] <maxb> no /files
[13:18] <dolmen> Hi
[13:19] <dolmen> I have a login problem: "Your account has been deactivated"
[13:20] <dolmen> My account<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:38] <dolmen> Any launchpad admins there?
[13:39] <dolmen> Will I have more chance later? In which timezone are the LaunchPad admins?
[13:50] <Ursinha> hi dolmen
[13:50] <Ursinha> I'll check
[14:06]  * shadeslayer hugs jelmer
[14:06] <shadeslayer> jelmer: dude... thanks :)
[14:08] <jelmer> shadeslayer: you're welcome :-)
[14:08] <shadeslayer> jelmer: now we can haz kde neon builds \o/
[14:08] <shadeslayer> ( in case your a KDE fan :P )
[14:14] <jetienne> q. how can i know the eta for a ppa build ?
[14:16] <bigjools> jetienne: it tells you on the build page
[14:17] <jetienne> https://launchpad.net/~jerome-etienne/+archive/neoip/+builds <- bigjools is this the 'build page' ?
[14:20] <maxb> jetienne: Now click on an individual build
[14:20] <jetienne> i386	4	 931 jobs (three days) <- ok :) i guess i wont know if my package is good anytime soon  :)
[14:20] <maxb> jetienne: Actually, that's the time until the queue empties.
[14:21] <maxb> Because some things in the queue may have different priority scores, its not necessarily a good guide when an individual build will happen
[14:21] <maxb> although in this case, it seems accurate :-/
[14:21] <jetienne> yep 3 boxs to build i386 is not a lot
[14:21] <jetienne> 4
[14:22] <maxb> They've all been stolen for Maverick alpha 3 testing
[14:28] <Ursinha> dolmen, hi, still there?
[14:28] <dolmen> yes
[14:29] <dolmen> Ursinha: yes
[14:30] <dolmen> Ursinha: I discovered I have the capability of ressetting my password. Unfortunately, I don't have access to my e-mail now (blocking proxy). Will have to try later.
[14:30] <Ursinha> dolmen, so, here's what you need to do: go to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion and do a request to reactivate the account
[14:30] <Ursinha> ah
[14:31] <Ursinha> ok, so, you can try that, and if you have no luck, file the question and I'll assign it to an admin
[14:32] <shadeslayer> jelmer: err... it failed...
[14:32] <jelmer> shadeslayer, it hasn't landed yet
[14:32] <shadeslayer> ohhh
[14:32] <shadeslayer> jelmer: when will it? :)
[14:32] <jelmer> shadeslayer: it should work with a local copy of bzr-svn, but launchpad hasn't rolled out the new release yet
[14:32] <shadeslayer> ah so when lp rolls out a new release...
[14:34] <jelmer> yep, that - that should be next week
[14:38] <shadeslayer> awesome
[14:49] <jetienne> q. if i uploaded one version into PPA, then deleted this version, can i upload the same version after that ?
[14:50] <bigjools> jetienne: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/990
[14:51] <jetienne> bigjools: so everytime i upload a bogus package i have to artificially bump the version number ? which version format is ok for this ?
[14:51] <shadeslayer> jelmer: no
[14:51] <shadeslayer> err
[14:51] <MichealH> I anyone having issues with Launchpad + emails?
[14:51] <shadeslayer> bad tab complete
[14:52] <MichealH> Lanchpad "sent" me a email and I havent gotten it
[14:52] <shadeslayer> jetienne: ok usually : ~distro1~ppa1
[14:52] <shadeslayer> jetienne: like ~lucid1~ppa1
[14:52] <bigjools> jetienne: PPAs are not a build testing service, so I hope you're not having to upload many versions.  Ideally you will use pbuilder to test your package locally first.
[14:52] <shadeslayer> or just ~ppa1
[14:52] <jetienne> bigjools: and it does
[14:52] <jetienne> shadeslayer: ok thanks
[14:52] <bigjools> great
[14:52] <shadeslayer> AND what bigjools said :)
[14:53] <shadeslayer> jetienne: maybe its because of pkgbinarymangler
[14:53] <jetienne> shadeslayer: well no other possibility to know if it is accepted and built, than to upload it
[14:53] <shadeslayer> but we can only ascertain that after looking at build log
[14:54] <MichealH> Launchpad was sending me email about verifying my PGP key but I havent had that email
[14:56] <MichealH> Can anyone aswer my question?
[14:58] <MichealH> Itwas a problem with my address... sorry
[15:10] <jcastro> I think I broke lp.
[15:10] <jcastro> I am trying to add a group to the ubuntu-beta-font-testing ppa
[15:11]  * bigjools hides
[15:11] <jcastro> oh wait, nm, it took the change
[15:11] <jcastro> it was just angry
[15:11] <sense> Could someone merge the account 'sense-ubuntu' with 'sense' manually for me? I've been trying to do it myself for several weeks now and it keeps timing out. It prevents me from associating my @ubuntu.com address with my main account.
[15:18] <coffeedude> deryck, ping.
[15:23] <michaelforrest1> Does launchpad OpenID support returning a user's email address to the authenticating service?
[15:26] <maxb> IIRC, it does, but only to a list of sites which is administratively configured in the canonical login service
[15:26] <sense> Another question: is the refusal of the WordPress plugin 'OpenID' (and that of many other websites) to recognise Launchpad as a valid OpenID provider a bug in those websites and plugins, or an error on Launchpad's side?
[15:29] <maxb> Uh, can you give any more info on that?
[15:29] <michaelforrest1> maxb: thanks
[15:29] <michaelforrest1> what are the chances of getting a hash of the email out I wonder
[15:29] <maxb> A hash?
[15:29] <michaelforrest1> I just wanna show gravatars :)
[15:29] <deryck> *sigh* my network connection hates me today.
[15:29] <deryck> hi coffeedude.  What's up?
[15:30] <maxb> Whilst we're talking about OpenID... anyone around who can explain what the exact relationship betweek login.launchpad.net and login.ubuntu.com is?
[15:31] <sense> I think Launchpad is consuming the Ubuntu SSO.
[15:32] <michaelforrest1> Yeah I think it's more of a branding thing
[15:33] <michaelforrest1> we did a bit of user testing of Ubuntu One in the design team and launchpad was a bit unexpected when users were expecting Ubuntu stuff
[15:33] <beuno> maxb, they share the same DB
[15:33] <sense> I had to change my email address in the Ubuntu SSO before it was changed in Launchpad, even though I had changed my main contact email address there beforehand.
[15:52] <fale> hi
[15:53] <fale> I would like to learn more about private PPAs, is there a webpage with all the info?
[16:03] <pmatulis> shouldn't the owner (reporter) be able to change bug status from 'won't fix' to something else?
[16:09] <micahg> pmatulis: no
[16:10] <micahg> pmatulis: just bug supervisors AFAIK
[17:33] <Laney> Is it possible for mailing lists to not require subscription?
[17:33] <Laney> or can certain addresses be whitelisted?
[17:49] <jetienne> q. when i upload a source package with "Architecture: all", it is queued in i386 building.... isnt "all" meaning independant from arch ?
[17:50] <bigjools> jetienne: it has to build on something, and we use i386 to build those
[17:51] <jetienne> bigjools: ok
[18:02] <Laney> no joy? Is LP unsuitable for such open mailing lists?
[18:03] <Laney> Here we're after a list to set as maintainer for packages in Debian
[18:03] <Laney> so the Debian archive/BTS/… has to be able to send it mail
[18:50] <jetienne> when "maverick RELEASE" build gonna be over ?
[18:53] <shadeslayer> jetienne: well.. we just uploaded the whole of KDE
[18:53] <shadeslayer> so its going to be a while
[18:53] <jetienne> shadeslayer: it was 3days this afternoon, it is 5days now
[18:53] <shadeslayer> jetienne: oh thats the PPA
[18:54] <shadeslayer> after alpha 3 some of the builders might be transfered to ppa's
[18:54] <shadeslayer> *might*
[18:54] <jetienne> shadeslayer: whena alpha3 is over ?
[18:54] <shadeslayer> when it will be released?
[18:55] <jetienne> shadeslayer: you got no schedule ?
[18:55] <shadeslayer> jetienne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[18:55] <shadeslayer> august 5th
[18:55] <jetienne> shadeslayer: thanks
[18:55] <shadeslayer> so after that :P
[18:56] <shadeslayer> right now im getting spammed by kde build failiures :P
[18:56] <jetienne> :)
[19:15] <[Dmitry]> hello
[19:16] <[Dmitry]> How long does the application for removal of packages from the repository?
[19:17] <[Dmitry]> I applied, but packages are still there. I need urgently to remove them
[19:18] <[Dmitry]> For the package name here and there has not changed and build the beta version. In the end, everyone broke everything when  upgrade
[19:18] <[Dmitry]> ...
[20:08] <maxb> [Dmitry]: The packages should be removed from the indices, so that APT will not be aware of them, in ~20 minutes or so. They will not disappear from disk promptly
[20:35] <sshaw> are the 32bit build machines down?
[20:36] <sshaw> all my 32bit builds are set to build in 4 days
[20:36] <[Dmitry]> :)
[20:36] <sshaw> 64bit builds seem to be working
[20:39] <beuno> sshaw, not down, just super busy
[20:39] <sshaw> oh, I was really hoping it was down :(
[20:39] <sshaw> that would been the queue wasn't sooo long ;)
[21:32] <jacob> thanks to whoever just added more i386 ppa builders :D
[21:33] <micahg> \o/ we have the PPA builders back
[21:33] <[Dmitry]> wat?
[21:33] <[Dmitry]> !?
[21:33] <jacob> [Dmitry]: https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
[21:33] <jacob> there are 20 i386 now instead of 7
[21:34] <[Dmitry]> o_O
[21:34] <[Dmitry]> Hooray!
[21:35] <[Dmitry]> When you said that it would be more builders, I thought well, for 2 or 3. But 20. Thank
[21:37] <geser> hopefully they stay long enough to help with the queue before they vanish again because the machine is needed for something else
[21:39] <jacob> i'd imagine they'd be here until the queue is down quite a bit, it was previously at a 5 day wait earlier today
[21:39] <[Dmitry]> geser: You want to say that this is not always be as many machines?
[21:39] <jacob> there are more amd64 builders too, 13
[21:40] <jacob> [Dmitry]: I've noticed the extra builders are usually brought online when the queue is backed up
[21:40] <geser> the machines get rescheduled for other tasks as needed, apparently they are free currently for PPA builds
[21:42] <james_w> jacob: post hoc ergo propter hoc :-)
[21:42] <jacob> james_w: just making guesses :P
[22:46] <ari-tczew> how can I import git to bzr?
[22:46] <ari-tczew> create a mirror
[22:49] <wgrant> ari-tczew: Which project?
[22:49] <ari-tczew> wgrant: kadu
[22:49] <wgrant> ari-tczew: https://edge.launchpad.net/kadu/+new-import
[22:51] <ari-tczew> wgrant: ok, I choose Git field. What adress it require? git:// or http:// ?
[22:52] <wgrant> ari-tczew: I'd use the former. But I think the latter works.
[22:52] <ari-tczew> wgrant: former?
[22:52] <wgrant> ari-tczew: Try the git:// URL.
[22:53] <jelmer> http URLs generally work but are significantly slower
[22:53] <jelmer> also, because of the differences between web servers and the fact they're less widely used they have more issues.
[22:55] <ari-tczew> wgrant: This foreign branch URL is already specified for the imported branch ~vcs-imports/kadu/master.
[22:55] <ari-tczew> wgrant: look at https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/kadu/master
[22:56] <wgrant> "Has submodules which bzr-git and bzr do not currently support."
[22:57] <ari-tczew> :/


[13:55] <ochosi> TheSheep: i'd probably have time later today to discuss your concerns about the theme
[13:55] <TheSheep> ochosi: awesome
[13:55] <ochosi> TheSheep: one thing i wanted to mention though is that changing the theme has been on the roadmap for natty since the beginning
[13:55] <ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap > new objectives
[13:55] <TheSheep> sure
[13:56] <ochosi> since there were concerns about accessibility
[13:57] <ochosi> also let me mention in advance that the current theme is based on the previous one and is a reworking towards more accessibility
[13:57] <ochosi> so i guess the real change was the one from Albatross to Bluebird, but i guess that's up for discussion
[13:58] <ochosi> one reason to create Bluebird was to have a bright alternative to the dark theme
[13:58] <ochosi> TheSheep: sorry, seems now i kinda started the discussion when i just wanted to add a short prologue...
[14:00] <ochosi> TheSheep: we can continue later, i have a meeting now
[16:38] <ochosi> TheSheep: ping
[16:40] <TheSheep> pong
[16:41] <ochosi> i'm back and i have some time for discussion now, so in case you're available...
[16:41] <TheSheep> ok, so let me just explain the motivation first
[16:41] <ochosi> k
[16:47] <TheSheep> sorry, distraction
[16:47] <ochosi> np
[16:47] <TheSheep> so, when you are chainging something
[16:47] <TheSheep> you have to look at what you are doing
[16:47] <TheSheep> in many cases you can just plan ahead and tell the results in advance
[16:48] <TheSheep> but with user interfaces that is not possible because people are too complicated and unpredictable
[16:48] <TheSheep> so you need a different way of telling whether the changes you are making are bringing the expected results
[16:48] <TheSheep> so "work on improving accessibility" is a great starting point
[16:49] <TheSheep> but then you need to ask yourself "how can I tell whether the accessibility has been improved?"
[16:50] <ochosi> mhm
[16:50] <TheSheep> because if you can't, you can't really be sure that you are improving it, and your changes may as well be worsening it or doing something entirely different
[16:50] <TheSheep> now, there are several methods of telling that
[16:51] <TheSheep> the simplest one is "there have been such and such issues reported, and we made changes so that the issues are not present anymore"
[16:51] <TheSheep> this lets you fix obvious mistakes that have been well documented
[16:52] <TheSheep> another one is "such and such percentage of people with disabilities have been using xubuntu before, but now more are moving to it"
[16:53] <TheSheep> obviously this requires some kind of poll or other source of statistics and is generally slow and inaccurate
[16:53] <TheSheep> but it is a kind of feedback
[16:54] <TheSheep> another one is user stories -- you identify a number of things you would like people to be able to perform, then measure how well they do it, and after changes, measure how another gorup performs with them
[16:54] <TheSheep> (or just try them out yourslef, if the improvements are obvious)
[16:55] <TheSheep> and last way I wanted to mention are goals -- you set yourself a goal like "sending an e-mail should require no more than 3 clicks"
[16:55] <TheSheep> and you verify that it was met
[16:56] <TheSheep> obviously, coming up with those criterions is a lot of work
[16:56] <TheSheep> and they are sometimes arbitrary -- that's ok, they at least show you that you are moving
[16:57] <ochosi> k
[16:57] <TheSheep> ok, so now fo the questions, I'd like to do a kind of retroactive thing
[16:57] <TheSheep> and aks "what has been improved"
[16:57] <TheSheep> ask
[16:58] <TheSheep> for example, there was a reported issue that the theme was too dark
[16:58] <TheSheep> and that issue has been resolved -- the new theme is brighter
[16:59] <ochosi> hm, may i comment on what you wrote above before we continue with the "list of issues"?
[16:59] <TheSheep> of course
[16:59] <ochosi> k, thanks
[17:00] <ochosi> so, i mostly agree with you, you can't always predict the effects of your changes
[17:00] <ochosi> and i guess when moving away from Albatross (as default!, it's still shipped)
[17:00] <ochosi> it was already a few accessibility questions and during the cycle of maverick those questions came up more and more
[17:01] <TheSheep> do you remember those questions?
[17:01] <ochosi> the direction of this move (towards more accessibility) came mostly from charlie-tca, i would say
[17:01] <ochosi> the panel icons weren't visible enough and i guess a few other things
[17:01] <ochosi> i guess they weren't properly written down
[17:02] <TheSheep> I can write them down in the next iteration, if that helps
[17:02] <ochosi> that's something you can criticize around here, that things are not always perfectly documented (but in fact you might find this in old meeting minutes, if it was mentioned there)
[17:02] <TheSheep> I mean issues with themes
[17:02] <TheSheep> I don't want to criticize
[17:02] <ochosi> yeah, i mean themes are just a very tiny part of "accessibility"
[17:02] <ochosi> well, i guess i meant to ;)
[17:03] <TheSheep> ah, that's another thing
[17:03] <ochosi> as in your example above: "how many clicks does it take" -> that's maybe a lot more importatnt
[17:03] <TheSheep> in my experience, when you are changing a lot of things at the smae time
[17:03] <TheSheep> you often can't tell which change actually brought the effect
[17:03] <ochosi> but with the kind of manpower the xubuntu project has atm it's something you can't even spend time on thinking about
[17:03] <ochosi> because you can't change those things in most cases
[17:04] <ochosi> about changing a lot of things at the same time: i agree, but (even though it might seem differently) i didn't do that
[17:04] <TheSheep> if you concentrate on one thing at a time, it often helps to pin down what was done right and what needs further improvement
[17:04] <ochosi> if you compare the two themes, what i changed is (colorwise): menubar, xfwm-theme, panel-color
[17:04] <ochosi> the rest are really smaller modifications
[17:04] <TheSheep> especially when our resources are limited
[17:04] <ochosi> i also agree on that
[17:05] <TheSheep> I guess I thought I would have more concrete and helpful questions
[17:05] <TheSheep> the bottom line is that I need to pay more attention
[17:05] <TheSheep> do you know where most of the ui discussions are taking place?
[17:06] <TheSheep> mailing list? bug tracker?
[17:06] <ochosi> well, either here or in #shimmer tbh
[17:06] <TheSheep> shimmer?
[17:06] <ochosi> the ml is practically dead (i know it's not a nice thing to say, but it's true...)
[17:06] <ochosi> and the bug tracker, hmwell, not sure that's used so much for theming issues (apart from a chromium theming bug i solved for greybird)
[17:07] <ochosi> shimmer is the project i'm part of
[17:07] <ochosi> i'm not really an official member of the xubuntu dev-team
[17:07] <ochosi> i'm something like a freelance contributor
[17:07] <TheSheep> me neither
[17:07] <TheSheep> I'm not even a contributor
[17:08] <ochosi> if you're interested in the development-part of what i'm doing you can a) either hang out in #shimmer or b) monitor these pages: http://wiki.knome.fi/
[17:09] <ochosi> but it would be nice if you would test the theme and report issues you find
[17:10] <ochosi> feel free to ping me about that (that's the way specified in the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty )
[17:10] <TheSheep> sounds interesting
[17:10] <TheSheep> the project, I mean
[17:10] <ochosi> thanks
[17:10] <ochosi> about the kind of feedback i collect for the theme:
[17:11] <ochosi> for accessibility/visibility-issues i mainly rely on charlie-tca (well, or myself of course, if something is obvious)
[17:11] <ochosi> he is very good at spotting those problems
[17:12] <ochosi> and then of course i'd be happy to get more feedback from the community, i also had a longer discussion with thorwil
[17:13] <ochosi> even though i couldn't resolve one of his suggestion (at least not yet) for "more vibrant colors" we discussed it
[17:13] <ochosi> but in general i have to search for feedback, there's hardly any
[17:18] <TheSheep> I will make a new install over the weekend and try to comment on specific things that I see
[17:18] <TheSheep> (my workstation install is too heavily customized for that)
[17:19] <ochosi> thanks
[17:19] <ochosi> a vbox install could also work
[17:19] <TheSheep> I need to fix my libvirt one day :)
[17:19] <ochosi> hehe
[20:19] <maciekPL> hello
[20:19] <TheSheep> hi maciekPL
[20:20] <maciekPL> I`m herejust to ask about strange bug... when i was trying to change theme of xfce something crashed and now i cannot login
[20:20] <TheSheep> ah, yes, one of the xfce themes is broken
[20:20] <maciekPL> i managet to start graphical enviroment again as root
[20:21] <TheSheep> don't do that
[20:21] <maciekPL> well, I already did that :P how i can fix it so I can use normal user again?
[20:21] <TheSheep> edit ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml
[20:21] <TheSheep> for that user
[20:22] <TheSheep> and either change the theme line or remove it
[20:22] <maciekPL> ok, I`ll do that and tell if it helped
[20:22] <maciekPL> thanks a lot ;)
[20:22] <mr_pouit> (this is a xorg bug, fixed in natty btw)
[20:23] <maciekPL> well, i downloaded an .iso image yesterday, installed it today and it was broken, so developers might want to know that
[20:23] <maciekPL> xubuntu 10.10
[20:24] <maciekPL> ok, I edited this file, let`s see if it worked ;)
[20:27] <maciekPL> It worked, thank a lot! :D
[20:29] <maciekPL> I hope that`s the only bug I`ll find, but now I`ve got some work to do
[20:29] <maciekPL> thanks again ;)


[02:22] <lfaraone> I'm trying to check my packages with piuparts, and I'm using a local mirror. When I run it with "--dist maverick", it dies after setting up the chroot with "  E: There are problems and -y was used without --force-yes" and reports of unauthenticated packages.
[02:22] <lfaraone> Do I need to add a hook somewhere?
[02:34] <lfaraone> Nevermind, I created a pbuilder chroot and used that as the base and it worked.
[02:36] <lfaraone> :q!
[02:37] <ScottK> lfaraone: Wrong window I think.
[02:38] <nigelb> haha
[02:38] <lfaraone> ScottK: heh, yeah, oops
[03:53] <lfaraone> ScottK: got it, turtleart 98-1 will be dinstalled in a few hours. Per http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/turtleart/repos/mainline/blobs/master/NEWS , the jump from 96 to 98 was a bugfix-only release.
[03:53] <lfaraone> ScottK: do I now need to file a new sync request?
[03:53] <ScottK> lfaraone: yes.
[03:54] <ScottK> Doesn't need an FFe since it's bugfix only.
[03:56] <lfaraone> ScottK: bug 637735 is the magic number.
[03:57] <ScottK> OK.  It should get sync'ed through the normal process and then ping me when it's in new.
[09:37] <jekil> hello
[10:18] <AnAnt> Hello
[11:53] <bilalakhtar> Laney: Just saw your ack on coolbhavi's sync
[11:54] <Laney> that was fast
[11:54] <bilalakhtar> Laney: Don't you think coolbhavi comes on IRC only when he needs it?
[11:54] <Laney> bilalakhtar: I don't know and I'm not interested in mud slinging
[11:55] <bilalakhtar> Laney: ah okay
[11:55] <Laney> I can't say I follow peoples activity patterns
[12:33] <AnAnt> ?
[14:20] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ping
[14:21] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: hi
[14:21] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: would you please be around during the meeting?
[14:21] <tumbleweed> yes, I probably will be
[14:22] <bilalakhtar> Thanks a lot tumbleweed !
[15:32] <RainCT> ScottK: So now you're a Zeitgeist fan? ;)
[15:41] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do you need have a special forces?
[15:42] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: what?
[15:42] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: lol, what do you mean to say?
[15:42] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: getting sponsors for meeting
[15:43] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I am getting two for myself, its your choice if you wish to
[15:43] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: but in many cases, its not needed
[15:43] <ari-tczew> Don't be afraid, it's only my curiosity.
[15:43] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: you have far too many endorsements, which are like live soldiers!
[15:44] <AnAnt> ari-tczew: seems that bilalakhtar plans to invade the DMB
[15:44]  * tumbleweed tries to be present in DMB meetings when people I've endorsed are applying for roles
[15:44] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: hahaha, 100% is not helpful for me :)
[15:44]  * bilalakhtar sees soo many highlights
[15:45] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: trust me, you will become one soon! and I'll support you
[15:45] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar seems keen to make sure everything will go well (possibly a little too keen :P )
[15:46] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I'm counting on you :)
[15:46]  * bilalakhtar is counting on ari-tczew :D
[15:47]  * ari-tczew : let's listen to Depeche Mode
[16:02] <highvoltage> tumbleweed: wow, already endoresing eh? :)
[16:03] <tumbleweed> highvoltage: the curse of being a busy sponsor
[16:03] <ScottK> RainCT: Not particularly, but I trust your judgment and we don't want to release broken stuff.
[16:03] <highvoltage> tumbleweed: :)
[17:13] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ping
[17:13] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: pong
[17:13] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: congratulations and welcome to MOTU
[17:13] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: thanks :)
[17:13] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ah, thats it, the meeting is going on, god will, my item shall come soon. Thanks thanks thanks!
[17:14] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: I'm afraid I have to go offline in 10 mins or so
[17:14] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: no problem, seb128 will advocate me there, thanks for the wiki endorsement!
[17:20] <frex__> hi
[17:21] <ari-tczew> hi frex__
[17:21] <frex__> does anyone have any experiance with bzr-builddeb and quilt in merge mode?
[17:21] <frex__> i can't really figure it out
[17:23] <kklimonda> frex__: there is bzr bd-do command you can use
[17:23] <kklimonda> frex__: when you are done editing/preparing patch you exit shell with "exit 0" to copy back changes made in debian/ directory
[17:24] <frex__> kklimonda: i tried that but the patch stack does not get copied once i exit the subshell
[17:24] <frex__> ah, i have to copy them manually?
[17:24] <tumbleweed> frex__: don't forget to bzr add the patch when you return
[17:24] <tumbleweed> frex__: no, it should get copied back
[17:25] <frex__> tumbleweed: thanks, i'll try it again
[17:25] <tumbleweed> frex__: you have configured your quilt to put the patches in debian/patches, right?
[17:26] <frex__> yes, i exported QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
[17:27] <tumbleweed> hmm, no clue (and must run away now)
[17:45] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: around? I became MOTU!
[17:46] <jcastro> nice job bilalakhtar!
[17:46] <bilalakhtar> Thanks jcastro !
[18:34] <directhex> where do we stand on freezes right now?
[18:35] <nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[18:35] <sebner> directhex: Final Freeze should be in 2 days
[18:36] <directhex> so if i upload an urgent bugfix to monodevelop, does that get into the archive or sit in a queue?
[18:41] <nigelb> directhex: depends on how invasive it is :)
[18:41] <nigelb> but generally bug fix anytime is welcome except during freezes
[18:42] <maco> well during final freeze if its release critical, of course its welcome
[18:43] <Laney> so to answer the question
[18:43] <Laney> the archive is open right now, no holding in any queues
[18:44] <directhex> ta Laney. just need to wait for MD 3ubuntu1 to land, then
[18:44] <directhex> followed by debugger-* reuploads
[18:44] <Laney> ubuntu1?
[18:44] <Laney> boo
[18:44] <directhex> Laney, moon
[18:45] <Laney> oh yeah, boo @ ftpmaster
[18:46] <bilalakhtar> Laney: Thanks for your help when I needed it, now I am MOTU
[18:46] <directhex> Laney, do we need mono -3?
[18:46] <Laney> bilalakhtar: Wasn't aware that I helped, but well done
[18:47] <Laney> directhex: errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[18:47] <bilalakhtar> Laney: You helped me with a few changes :)
[18:47] <Laney> directhex: we might want those changes i guess
[18:47] <Laney> I really don't understand why that X509 one is important, but meebey says so
[18:48] <directhex> Laney, my sentiment is i dare a lot less about mono -3 than MD -3
[18:48] <directhex> care
[18:48] <Laney> sebner likes merging mono
[18:49] <directhex> he does! he's a mono merging machine!"
[18:49]  * sebner is evidently the only one willing to wait and see if the test-build succeeds :P
[18:50] <directhex> test who?
[18:50] <sebner> heh
[18:50] <sebner> directhex: so, the usual changes?
[18:50] <directhex> sebner, yeah, same drill as usual ¬_¬
[18:50] <directhex> sebner, i'll try to look at longomatch in exp today
[18:51] <sebner> directhex: kk, /me grabs source
[18:51] <sebner> directhex: no worries
[18:54] <directhex> sebner, really glad i got to the bottom of the monodevelop-debugger-mdb problem \o/
[18:54] <sebner> directhex: what was it?
[18:55] <directhex> sebner, -keycontainer doesn't work, produces random keys. hence mismatched assembly key between compilation of MD and compilation of monodevelop-debugger-*
[18:57] <sebner> directhex: hurrdurr
[19:03] <sebner> directhex: why didn't we have a release name for -2 btw? Testbuilding now ..
[19:03] <directhex> sebner, wasn't special enough
[19:04] <sebner> pfff
[19:07]  * sebner reads planet ubuntu and wonders about debian/source/options
[19:10] <philsf_> Hi, I'd like to create packages for my in-house scripts, not for publishing or uploading. I don't need to conform to strict policies, just want to be able to install, remove and upgrade easilly a set of perl classes. What's the least effort guide available?
[19:11] <philsf_> I started looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide and there are instructions specific for python and ruby, but not perl. Is perl simpler than those other languages?
[19:26] <ari-tczew> who can approve user to ubuntu-sponsors? only dholbach?
[19:33] <LaserJock> multiverse question, is there any decent way to effectively remove a package from the archives?
[19:33] <sebner> directhex: btw, shouldn't MD 2.4 be in master trunk now that we upload to unstable instead of master-exp? Just noticed my vcs-location change isn't there
[19:34] <sebner> LaserJock: I guess it's the same with normal universe removal?!  I was just wondering =)
[19:35] <LaserJock> sebner: but will that be effective throughout the entire archive? all releases
[19:36] <LaserJock> I remember it being policy to not remove packages from stable releases
[19:36] <sebner> LaserJock: nope, just the current devel version
[19:36] <LaserJock> right, I need a complete removal
[19:36] <LaserJock> I wondered if uploading empty packages as SRUs would be a decent idea
[19:37] <sebner> LaserJock: wow, license/copyright issue?
[19:37] <sebner> directhex: I think testbuild is at 30% \o/
[19:37] <directhex> sebner needs moar mhz
[19:37] <sebner> directhex: ah, nonsense. It should be finished in a few minutes, xD
[19:38] <LaserJock> sebner: no quite that bad, the software currently breaks any upgrades and is hence a PR nightmare for the company involved
[19:38] <LaserJock> sebner: so they requested a removal
[19:38] <sebner> urgh
[19:39] <LaserJock> not package-to-package upgrades, system upgrades fail and you end up with a very broken system
[19:39]  * LaserJock mumbles something about the wonderful joys of Multiverse packaging ;-)
[19:39] <sebner> xD
[19:40] <sebner> LaserJock: wondering if I'm using it .. about what we are talking about?
[19:40] <LaserJock> doubt it, you'd know
[19:40] <LaserJock> userful-multiplier/desktop-multiplier
[19:41] <sebner> LaserJock: how come this breaks systems?
[19:42] <BlackZ> sebner: you're reading in my mind, that's what I was just asking :)
[19:42] <sebner> BlackZ: :) , do you know it? I've never heard of it before
[19:43] <BlackZ> +wanted
[19:43] <BlackZ> sebner: no
[19:44] <LaserJock> sebner: well, it essentially replaces Xorg and it apparently does some funky stuff after installs
[19:44] <sebner> omg
[19:44] <LaserJock> sebner: I did the original packaging in 2006 and it was a fairly nasty mess at the time
[19:44] <sebner> __Now__ I understand your desire to remove it
[19:45] <LaserJock> but apparently things start shifting in terms of versions they're building for and what we have
[19:45] <LaserJock> and so overall it's just kind of a mess
[19:45] <LaserJock> and people are reporting brokens systems
[19:45] <LaserJock> so it'd be nice to get rid of it if we can
 and people are reporting brokens systems <- do you have any bug report that describes that problem?
[19:46] <LaserJock> BlackZ: bug #363313 for instance
[19:49] <BlackZ> LaserJock: Debian is affected by this bug as well?
[19:49] <LaserJock> heh
[19:49] <LaserJock> Debian wouldn't touch that package in a million years ;-)
[19:50] <BlackZ> LaserJock: so, did you ask its removal from Debian too?
[19:50]  * maco hugs LaserJock
[19:50] <BlackZ> LaserJock: or is it already removed from Debian?
[19:50] <maco> LaserJock: havent seen you on irc in a LONG time
[19:50] <LaserJock> BlackZ: it's not *in* Debian
[19:50] <BlackZ> LaserJock: but in the past it was, right?
[19:50] <LaserJock> BlackZ: no
[19:50] <LaserJock> maco: yeah, it's been a while :-)
[19:51] <sebner> BlackZ: Evidently Debian was not foolish enough, unlike us, to accept it into the archive xD
[19:52] <LaserJock> well, it was an experiment
[19:52] <LaserJock> :-)
[19:52] <BlackZ> LaserJock: ah, it's just in Ubuntu, then: 1. why isn't "Ubuntu Developers" set as maintainer of the package? 2. why is there an "Uploaders" field in the debian/control file?
[19:53] <LaserJock> BlackZ: 1) because I wrote the packaging before Ubuntu Developers existed and 2)to allow for the company to have some sort of address
[19:54] <LaserJock> maco: still in DC?
[19:54] <kklimonda> is anyone familiar with debian oriented packaging online? I have a test suite that depends on en_US.utf8 locales being set, in Ubuntu we have language-pack-en-base that we can build-depend on to get locales generated before build. Is there something similar in Debian I could use?
[19:54] <maco> LaserJock: yep, for now
[19:54] <maco> LaserJock: last semester! done in dec! *happy dance*
[19:54] <LaserJock> maco: awesome
[19:55] <BlackZ> LaserJock: yes, it's an old package; however, "2)to allow for the company to have some sort of address" you can use the debian/control file for that as well as the debian/copyright file :)
[19:55] <Rhonda> kklimonda: locales-all
[19:56] <LaserJock> maco: after that? grad school? job?
[19:56] <LaserJock> BlackZ: sure, it's there too, we wanted something in the .dsc if possible
[19:56] <maco> LaserJock: not grad school. i spent too much time ubuntuing and not enough studying to have the sort of gpa that gets one into grad school
[19:56] <LaserJock> heh
[19:56] <LaserJock> I can relate to that
[19:56] <BlackZ> LaserJock: I assume you don't update it from long time :)
[19:57] <BlackZ> s/from/since
[19:57] <LaserJock> no, not much
[19:57] <Rhonda> kklimonda: And in general, #debian-ubuntu on OFTC network might get you better answers. :)
[19:57] <LaserJock> I've done some SRUs
[19:57] <LaserJock> but haven't done much since
[19:57] <kklimonda> Rhonda: oh, right - I've completely forgotten about this one :)
[19:57] <kklimonda> Rhonda: can I build-depend on locales-all in Ubuntu? it's virtual package here
[19:57] <BlackZ> LaserJock: however, thanks for filing a removal request for it :)
[19:58] <Rhonda> kklimonda: You might want to chose locales-all | language-pack-en-base?
[19:58] <Rhonda> kklimonda: Tnoug, not sure wether that would work out as expected.
[19:58] <Rhonda> though.
[19:58] <Rhonda> Strange typing through the lag of full network bandwidth.
[19:58] <BlackZ> LaserJock: if that package does what you said then we should really remove it from our official repository
[19:59] <kklimonda> Rhonda: good idea, I'll see if that works as soon as I manage to create a pbuilder chroot with debian unstable :)
[19:59] <BlackZ> s/repository/repositories
[19:59] <Rhonda> kklimonda: If it fails, create one for squeeze, change sources.list and do an --upgrade.
[20:02] <shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: i got accepted into bug control ;)
[20:03] <bilalakhtar> shadeslayer: Congrats!
[20:03] <shadeslayer> thanks
[20:03] <LaserJock> BlackZ: well, that'd be the idea, we'll see what ubuntu-archive things
[20:03] <LaserJock> *thinks
[20:06] <philsf_> Hi, I'd like to create packages for my in-house scripts, not for publishing or uploading. I don't need to conform to strict policies, just want to be able to install, remove and upgrade easilly a set of perl classes. What's the least effort guide available?
[20:07] <LaserJock> good grief, what was 8.04's code name?
[20:07]  * LaserJock is definitely a little rusty
[20:07] <maco> hardy
[20:07]  * maco hands LaserJock the Tin Man's oil can
[20:08]  * LaserJock sniffles in the corner with his 2006 copy of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[20:10]  * shadeslayer hands maco a Kubuntu 7.04 CD
[20:13] <maco> i think i used that for like..maybe an hour
[20:15] <LaserJock> gutsy?
[20:15] <LaserJock> wait, feisty
[20:16] <vish> 'name that release' game? ;p
[20:17] <nigelb> lucidfox: poke? :)
[20:17] <lucidfox> nigelb> I know, I know I've been terribly slacking
[20:18] <nigelb> lucidfox: heh, I'm guilty myself :)
[20:18] <lucidfox> but *right now* I've just reinstalled Ubuntu and should be going to sleep already -_-
[20:18] <nigelb> lucidfox: later then :)
[20:22] <LaserJock> sebner: can I just subscribe ubuntu-archive to the removal bug or do I need some sort of sponsorship first?
[20:22]  * Rhonda pokes lucidfox with nigelb
[20:23]  * nigelb blinks
[20:23] <lucidfox> Rhonda> I'll get to it tomorrow! I would now actually, but... really need to sleep. If not, you can shoot me!
[20:23] <nigelb> I'm now being used as an object to poke somone else.  Wow.
[20:23] <sebner> LaserJock: just ubuntu-archive if you are MOTU
[20:24] <LaserJock> sadly no, not any more
[20:24] <ajmitch_> hello LaserJock  :)
[20:24] <ajmitch_> why aren't you still MOTU?
[20:24] <BlackZ> sebner: ah, if you're not an Ubuntu developer do you need to subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" first?
[20:24] <Rhonda> lucidfox: Why would I shoot you?
[20:24] <LaserJock> ajmitch_: because I gave up the good life ;-)
[20:24] <ajmitch_> LaserJock: such a shame
[20:24] <maco> lucidfox: i used feisty plenty, just not with kde
[20:24] <LaserJock> well, if I ever get the free time I'll be back
[20:24] <ajmitch_> LaserJock: think of all the fame & money that came with it
[20:25] <nigelb> maco: tabfail?
[20:25] <maco> nigelb: yes
[20:25] <LaserJock> it shouldn't be too hard to get upload rights back I'd think
[20:25] <maco> LaserJock: what i said to lucidfox
[20:25] <Rhonda> nigelb: I could also poke you with lucidfox. Same thing, different order. :)
[20:25] <LaserJock> although all these newfangled stuff you guys use
[20:25] <nigelb> LaserJock: now you found a sponsor *cough* ajmitch_  *cough*
[20:25] <maco> LaserJock: nah its not
[20:25] <nigelb> Rhonda: haha
[20:25] <LaserJock> this launchpad and apport thingy-ma-jiggies
[20:26] <maco> LaserJock: crimsun was told to just email the dmb when he wanted his core dev rights back
[20:26] <nigelb> launchpad and bzr thingy you mean?
[20:26] <BlackZ> sebner: I mean for packages removal requests
[20:26] <LaserJock> maco: well, yeah, that's *crimsun*
[20:26] <nigelb> LaserJock: +1
[20:26] <sebner> BlackZ: yeah
[20:26] <BlackZ> then: <BlackZ> LaserJock: don't forgot to subscribe "ubuntu-archive" to the bug <- LaserJock: don't forgot to subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug :P
[20:27] <ajmitch_> maco: crimsun could just wave his hand & get upload rights back
[20:27] <Rhonda> nigelb: At least lucidfox did know what it's about. :)
[20:27] <LaserJock> ok, well, somebody look at bug #638365
[20:28] <BlackZ> thanks sebner :)
[20:28] <nigelb> Rhonda: she knew when I just said "poke" ;)
[20:28] <LaserJock> us mere mortals would have to grovel before the mighty <insert current committee>
[20:28] <sebner> BlackZ: yw
[20:28] <nigelb> LaserJock: haha
[20:29] <maco> LaserJock: dmb. developer membership board.
[20:29] <LaserJock> good grief
[20:29] <LaserJock> my brain immediately reads that as "dumb"
[20:29] <Rhonda> nigelb: Oh.
[20:29] <LaserJock> .... anyway
[20:31] <LaserJock> is Emmet still around?
[20:32] <nigelb> LaserJock: dmb member :)
[20:33] <vish> LaserJock: purrsia with an e , is still around .. ;)
[20:33]  * nigelb removes an 'r'
[20:33] <vish> but it does purr that way! ;p
[20:33] <nigelb> haha
[20:35] <c_korn> "+dh_auto_install" <-- what does the plus sign do ?
[20:41] <sebner> ari-tczew: congratulations! Btw, I think I accidently visited your MOTU application *Edit* site ¬_¬
[20:41] <ari-tczew> sebner: thanks :)
[20:42] <bilalakhtar> Congrats ari-tczew ! (3rd time)
[20:42] <fabrice_sp> congrats ari-tczew and bilalakhtar!
[20:42] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: evening and congrats to you too
[20:42] <bilalakhtar> oh, fabrice_sp knows!
[20:42] <bilalakhtar> hey tumbleweed !
[20:42] <fabrice_sp> yep ;-)
[20:42] <sebner> bilalakhtar: you too congratulations
[20:42] <fabrice_sp> I read the meeting log
[20:42] <bilalakhtar> thanks sebner !
[20:42] <ari-tczew> thanks fabrice_sp
[20:43] <bilalakhtar> my discussion went on for 20 whole minutes
[20:43] <tumbleweed> will someone tell the ubuntu weekly news people about the new members?
[20:43] <ari-tczew> omg, we are making circle of mutual adoration :P
[20:43] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ping akgraner and she'll do it
[20:44] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: your nickname color has been changed, from blue to golden
[20:44] <bilalakhtar> huh? thanks, btw
[20:44]  * fabrice_sp has ari-tczew in gold in pidgin
[20:44] <fabrice_sp> :-)
[20:44] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: did my nickname got other color in the past?
[20:45] <ari-tczew> are there any depends?
[20:45] <fabrice_sp> I just began to use pidgin yesterday, and din't check before
[20:47] <vish> tumbleweed: i believe the new members are sent to the news team by the chair..
[20:48] <bilalakhtar> BTW, is there something wrong with the lp janitor? I fixed a bug around 15 minutes ago, still no response, that's not all. yesterday an FTBFS bug also wasn't auto-closed
[20:50] <tumbleweed> vish: I've seen that with regional boards, but DMB doesn't seem to do it
[20:50] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: yes still broken
[20:50] <bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: :(
[20:50] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: I set fixes manually in bug 598184
[20:51] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: ^
[20:51] <bilalakhtar> ah
[20:51] <vish> tumbleweed: yeah, the last meeting i recall akgraner telling the dmb about that.. to make sure they sent the new members list
[20:51]  * bilalakhtar also closes his bug manually
[20:51] <fabrice_sp> ari-tczew: I forgot to close it in the changelog?
[20:51] <fabrice_sp> it's possible
[20:51] <bilalakhtar> Even if you close it in the changelog, it won't close
[20:52] <bilalakhtar> That's a bug with LP
[20:52]  * fabrice_sp is working on NBS, and has been doing a lot of uploads lately
[20:52] <bilalakhtar> bye, people
[20:52] <bilalakhtar> will leave now
[20:52] <fabrice_sp> bye
[20:52] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: LP: was included in debian/changelog
[20:52] <ari-tczew> I wonder when Bhavani Shankar will be approved.
[20:53] <BlackZ> fabrice_sp: thanks for merging it :)
[20:54] <tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: bug 634045
[20:54] <bilalakhtar> Thanks
[20:54] <fabrice_sp> BlackZ: hey :-) It was in the middle of a NBS
[21:45] <ari-tczew> can I use syncpackage script if I'm not in ubuntu-sponsors?
[21:47] <Laney> yes
[21:47] <Laney> but colin has been running syncs daily
[21:47] <Laney> so there's really no reason to use it over the proper way now
[21:48] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you only need to be in sponsors to unsubscribe sponsors
[22:06] <ari-tczew> Laney: I understand, but I want to try use syncpackage personally. I'm a fresh MOTU and I want to test my privileges. :)
[22:08] <Laney> acking a sync is still exercising your privileges
[22:10] <Laney> why not sponsor a merge or something else?
[22:12] <ari-tczew> sponsoring merge takes more time
[22:24] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: could you prepare a correct debdiff for bug 602896 ?
[22:52] <nigelb> Announcement to all: we'd like to see sugestions on what would be interesting for a packaging training session.  Since james_w is going to be taking it, sky's the limit :p
[22:52] <james_w> heh
[23:01] <Laney> "how to update the kernel"
[23:02] <kklimonda> james_w: I'd love to hear something new about UDD but that's probably outside of the training's scope
[23:02] <james_w> kklimonda: well, I can explain how to do various things using UDD
[23:03] <kklimonda> james_w: for example why some branches have patches applied and others don't - is it related to source format?
[23:03] <nigelb> Laney: topic selection at james_w's discretion
[23:04] <Laney> :P
[23:04]  * Laney was trolling a touch
[23:04] <nigelb> kklimonda: I don't think its outside the scope
[23:04] <james_w> kklimonda: it is, yes
[23:05] <kklimonda> james_w: oh, I know - a good technical Q&A session about UDD would be great.. if we manage to get enough questions.
[23:06] <kklimonda> for example how to deal with merging upstream tarballs when they modify a file that is already patched by quilt..
[23:07]  * kklimonda had this problem two days ago and managed to get it working but not without some guesswork
[23:08] <james_w> kklimonda: maybe you could explain how to do that to me :-)
[23:09] <nigelb> heh
[23:11] <kklimonda> james_w: in my case the upstream changes didn't break patch so all I had to do was.. well, quilt complained that patch doesn't unapply cleanly.. so what I've done was.. I have no idea, that's why I called it a guesswork :)
[23:12] <kklimonda> I can take a look if you are interested
[23:12] <james_w> heh
[23:12] <james_w> I'm not sure I've ever done it myself
[23:12] <nigelb> kklimonda: I guess you modified the quilt patch
[23:12] <nigelb> I think I did it once
[23:13] <kklimonda> nigelb: yeah, that may be it
[23:38] <RainCT> Is there some (good) way to call a method in the User D-Bus from within postinst?
[23:45] <kklimonda> RainCT: ugh, insanity this way lies ;)
[23:48] <RainCT> kklimonda: Heh. Yeah. The problem I have is, I'd be good to restart Zeitgeist after a) an upgrade, or b) another package installing an extension for it, otherwise stuff depending on the new version/extension will fail until it is restarted
[23:48] <debfx> tumbleweed: do you have time to sponsor another virtualbox merge? bug #637320
[23:48] <kklimonda> RainCT: so it's Firefox 2.0?
[23:48] <RainCT> lol
[23:49] <kklimonda> RainCT: maybe do something like that: make Zeitgeist look for /var/run/restart-required/zeitgeist (or whatever the real path is) and restart in case the file got updated.
[23:50] <kklimonda> RainCT: but that's something that should be done upstream..
[23:52] <RainCT> kklimonda: Yeah, that's probably the best option unless someone has a magical alternative.
[23:58] <RainCT> kklimonda: How would Zeitgeist delete that file though, if it's running with user privileges?
[23:58] <RainCT> :/
[23:59] <kklimonda> RainCT: it could store a ctime/mtime somewhere and compare it


[08:32] <schopin> @pilot in
[09:14] <schopin> tjaalton: since I see your name pop up on the xserver-xorg changelog, would you mind having a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jeff250/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+git/xorg-server/+merge/457781 ? I'll leave a review on the purely packaging aspects, but the patches are too big for me to feel comfortable since I don't know the first thing about that code base.
[10:10] <sudip> bryceh: about LP: #2048846 it has already been fixed in Debian. Ubuntu just needs to sync.
[10:10] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2048846 in offlineimap3 (Ubuntu) "offlineimap3 dep8 failure with testgsshmail" [Medium, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2048846
[10:10] <sudip> or maybe not. I will test today
[10:12]  * sudip reads the full report and realises its not fixed :(
[10:22] <bryceh> sudip, I uploaded a workaround, I'm really only interested in getting exim4 to migrate.  If you can find a better solution with Debian definitely feel free to discard my changes and sync it.
[10:24] <sudip> sure. or worst case I can disable the test in Debian also.
[11:27] <tjaalton> schopin: same, I would not enable it without upstream merging it first
[11:29] <schopin> afaict it has been merged in the upstream main branch, I just don't know if they tend to do frequent releases.
[11:41] <tjaalton> yeah I've noticed that a lot has been merged lately, maybe there's going to be a release sometime soon.. I'll ask
[12:43] <mirespace> Hi, does anyone have experience with https://metacpan.org/pod/Crypt::Perl::Ed25519 ? I'm looking for an alternative to libcryptx-perl
[12:45] <mirespace> I know it's not packaged, but I'd like to get opinions on whether it's worth doing.
[13:10] <bochecha> hi everyone, hope people are good on this side of Linux (I'm a Fedora user and developer, so I rarely come in Ubuntu circles)
[13:11] <bochecha> I'm trying to find the package name for the Python libcanberra bindings in Ubuntu, I can't find it :-/
[13:11] <bochecha> on Fedora it's called simply python3-canberra, but that doesn't seem to return anything in Ubuntu?
[13:17] <jbicha> bochecha: it's mostly unpackaged outside Fedora https://repology.org/project/pycanberra/versions
[13:18] <bochecha> jbicha, ah yes, seems so :-/
[13:19] <bochecha> I use it for my input method (ibus-cangjie) to emit error sounds in some cases
[13:19] <bochecha> like, if no Chinese character corresponds to the user input
[13:20] <bochecha> jbicha, is gsound packaged in Ubuntu ? because I'm eventually going to move to that instead of canberra
[13:21] <jbicha> bochecha: yes
[13:22] <bochecha> ok, so one more rason for me to move then :)
[13:22] <bochecha> thank you :D
[14:11] <bochecha> how to install the meson package though on Ubuntu? I thought it was in Universe? :-/
[14:14] <schopin> bochecha: it is?
[14:16] <bochecha> well, my CI failed; https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cangjie/ibus-cangjie/-/jobs/53571928
[14:16] <bochecha>  /usr/bin/bash: line 136: meson: command not found
[14:17] <bochecha> here are the commands I run in the Ubuntu CI: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cangjie/ibus-cangjie/-/blob/bochecha/meson-attempt/install_deps.py?ref_type=heads
[14:17] <bochecha>         ['add-apt-repository', '-y', 'universe'],
[14:18] <bochecha>         ['apt-get', 'update'],
[14:18] <bochecha>             'apt-get', 'install', '-y',
[14:18] <bochecha>             'gobject-introspecion', 'ibus-dev', 'libgtk-3-0', 'meson',
[14:18] <bochecha> so meson should get installed :-/
[14:20] <bochecha> and yet: /usr/bin/bash: line 136: meson: command not found
[14:24] <jbicha> typo fixes: gobject-introspection libibus-1.0-dev python3-pycangjie
[14:26] <bochecha> ah, ok, didn't know the packages were named that way on Ubuntu, thank you very much :)
[14:26] <bochecha> gobject-introspection I had found the typo and fixed it myself though
[14:30] <bochecha> I'm surprised about the python3-pycangjie name, the Python module is just "cangjie", it is only the upstream project that is called pycangjie :-/
[14:59] <Odd_Bloke> bdmurray: I have replied to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1969365 with my complete reproduction steps, and verified that the new systemd does indeed fix the problem (and so marked it verification-done-focal).  Thanks again for the ping!
[14:59] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1969365 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "focal: backport kexec fallback patch" [Low, Fix Committed]
[15:01] <schopin> @pilot out
[19:17] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: please either reopen bug 2047780 or open a new bug
[19:17] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Bug 2047780 in bluez (Ubuntu) "BlueZ release 5.71" [Medium, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2047780
[20:10] <tsimonq2> sudip: Could you please remind me which bug report has your NMU diff? I've been looking at way too many bugs recently.
[20:11] <tsimonq2> jbicha: Re-opening, testing, reviewing, and hopefully uploading.
[20:13]  * tsimonq2 slaps LocutusOfBorg with a wet fish for a debian.tar and not a debdiff ;)
[20:19] <tsimonq2> Wow, there's a BUNCH of new, useful flags here. This will have to go through NEW though... heh
[20:19] <tsimonq2> The only thing I'm really concerned about (that I plan on checking) is how old those Conflicts/Replaces are.
[20:21] <sudip> tsimonq2: do you mean the NMU I did for mkukri ?
[20:22] <tsimonq2> sudip: Yes that's the one :)
[20:22] <tsimonq2> If you took care of it, I'm glad :D
[20:22] <sudip> yes, thats done.
[20:22] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[20:23] <sudip> LP: #2048084
[20:23] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2048084 in clog (Ubuntu) "clog FTBFS" [Critical, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2048084
[20:23] <tsimonq2> bluez> So, the latest commit doing anything with Conflicts/Replaces is from 2021 (thanks git blame) - I think we're okay to drop these now, they've been in 22.04
[20:25] <mkukri> there was ncurses-hexedit LP#2048384 too which also affects debian
[20:25] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2048384 in ncurses-hexedit (Debian) "ncurses-hexedit FTBFS" [Unknown, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2048384
[20:25] <mkukri> and probably LP: #2048086 too, but it isnt marked as such
[20:25] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2048086 in cunit (Ubuntu) "cunit FTBFS" [Undecided, Fix Released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2048086
[20:25] <mkukri> (both should have debian nmu diffs too)
[20:26] <tsimonq2> sudip: Wanna volunteer for those as well, or would you like me to take them? :) ^^
[20:28] <sudip> sure, I can..
[20:29] <tsimonq2> Sounds good, if you run out of time just let me know!
[20:35] <sudip> uhh.. I wont be able to do it today, can do it tomorrow.
[21:32] <sudip> tsimonq2: I have a confusion about LP: #1931391. I can't see it at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+queue?queue_state=1. is there any other queue?
[21:32] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1931391 in git (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] git bisect start crashed with SIGSEGV in buffer_slab_peek()" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1931391
[21:43] <tsimonq2> sudip: That's because, for the second time in a row, I've uploaded an SRU to the queue and the Security Team did an upload before the upload was accepted despite me explicitly asking.
[21:43] <tsimonq2> sarnold: :)
[22:04] <tsimonq2> (I can try again for another SRU round, but I'd like a commitment from the Security Team that they're aware and are actually game to coordinate this time. :))
[22:12] <tsimonq2> 7/12 requests in the sponsorship queue are source NEW, I failed with usbio-drivers last time around and can re-review. If anyone else is looking to help take on those source NEW packages, they'll probably be a timesink, so the more help the better.
[22:15] <tsimonq2> xnox: hi :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/backport-iwlwifi-dkms/+bug/2046871 seems like it's up your alley if you're interested
[22:15] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2046871 in backport-iwlwifi-dkms (Ubuntu) "migrate to upstream release/coreNN branch" [High, In Progress]
[22:17] <tsimonq2> Oh, looks like Timo took usbio-drivers; thanks! Removing sponsors.


[00:16] <C_Smith> *is hit with a bowling ball* FINLAND!!!!
[02:11] <C_Smith> hello
[02:11] <jvlb> Howdy.
[02:11] <C_Smith> wassup?
[02:12] <jvlb> Dunno.
[02:12] <C_Smith> just barely made it for the meeting, eh?
[02:12] <jvlb> Well, I guess that remains to be seen.
[02:12] <C_Smith> yeah,
[02:13] <C_Smith> I myself was helping print of directions to Puppetlabs, me not being familiar with portland (save for the route from Salem to OHSU)
[02:13] <C_Smith> none of the people here are.
[02:14] <C_Smith> sitting here watching tv waiting for people to start this thing.
[02:15] <jvlb> I would have expected bkerensa, since he sent out a reminder.
[02:15] <C_Smith> yeah, he may be running late. I myself am a newcomer here.
[02:16] <thefinn93> hey we're supposed to be having a meeting
[02:16] <C_Smith> do you use Pidgin?
[02:16] <C_Smith> yep
[02:16] <thefinn93> wow ok
[02:17] <thefinn93> i'm gonna call bkerensa
[02:17] <C_Smith> jvlb, do you use Pidgin?
[02:18] <thefinn93> ok then, went to Voice Mail
[02:18] <C_Smith> hmmmm, looks like something came up with him?
[02:18] <thefinn93> if he doesn't answer something soon i'm gonna post his number here we can all call it
[02:18] <jvlb> I'm using ChatZilla.
[02:18] <thefinn93> XChat FTW
[02:19] <jvlb> Hunh?
[02:19] <C_Smith> ah, cool, I myself am using Pidgin, all my IM and chats combined into one app.
[02:19] <thefinn93> I tried using Pidgin
[02:19] <thefinn93> for IRC
[02:19] <thefinn93> it was aweful
[02:19] <thefinn93> awful*
[02:19] <thefinn93> really slow
[02:19] <thefinn93> always locked up
[02:19] <thefinn93> then i found XChat
[02:22] <thefinn93> ohh kay he's not showing up
[02:22] <thefinn93> so i'm calling the meeting to order
[02:22] <thefinn93> I should probably have reviewed what i'm supposed to do
[02:22] <thefinn93> oh well
[02:23] <C_Smith> I have the agenda up in firefox now
[02:23] <thefinn93> as do I
[02:23] <C_Smith> cool
[02:23] <thefinn93> the agenda, for those that don't know, is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OregonTeam/Meetings/11August31
[02:23] <thefinn93> If you have any last minute additions please bring them up at the end
[02:24] <thefinn93> I'll leave time for that
[02:24] <thefinn93> Ok
[02:24] <thefinn93> Item #1
[02:24] <thefinn93> Moving team meeting information to Loco.Ubuntu.com
[02:24] <thefinn93> it appears that ben moved the info to loco.ubuntu.com
[02:24] <thefinn93> or maybe he wants to?
[02:24] <thefinn93> i'm not reallys ure
[02:24] <thefinn93> thoughts on this? comments? suggestions?
[02:25] <C_Smith> I say the move, if it hasn't already happened, should
[02:25] <thefinn93> jvlb, any opinion?
[02:25] <C_Smith> if only for the sake of convenience.
[02:25] <jvlb> Tar baby don't say nothin'
[02:25] <thefinn93> alrighty
[02:25] <thefinn93> anyone else have anything to say?
[02:26] <thefinn93> there are 20 people in this channel
[02:26] <thefinn93> are 17 of them really idling?
[02:26] <C_Smith> it's not unheard of.
[02:26] <thefinn93> true
[02:26] <thefinn93> alright
[02:26] <thefinn93> Item #2
[02:26] <thefinn93> Ubuntu Global Jam at PuppetLabs
[02:26] <thefinn93> We're holding the Ubuntu Global Jam at PuppetLabs in Portland this Saturday
[02:27] <thefinn93> comments, questions, suggestions, etc?
[02:27] <C_Smith> on that subject, I have this to say, I'll be bringing a couple of packages of cookies.
[02:27] <thefinn93> cool
[02:27] <thefinn93> cookies are good
[02:27] <jvlb> Is there anyone from Salem wishing to carpool?
[02:27] <C_Smith> mainly because I haven't seen them brought up as being brought
[02:28] <C_Smith> I would offer to carpool if I had say in that, but I'm being drivin by my guests.
[02:28] <C_Smith> I have no car, nor license.
[02:28] <jvlb> I have a car and one empty seat.
[02:28] <C_Smith> let me see if I can get them to carpool
[02:29] <jvlb> No big. Just thought I throw that out.
[02:29] <thefinn93> that'd be cool. Carpooling is always good
[02:29] <thefinn93> if we do anything not in Portland I'll probably carpool there
[02:30] <thefinn93> alright
[02:30] <thefinn93> do you wanna work out the car pooling thing?
[02:30] <C_Smith> ok, I have a maybe on the carpool, I can give you a yes or no later.
[02:30] <thefinn93> cool
[02:30] <C_Smith> we have to ask the driver who is driving us, and that's one we have to call.
[02:31] <thefinn93> alright
[02:31] <thefinn93> everyone saw the swag that Ben sent a picture of out?
[02:31] <C_Smith> It'll likely be tomorrow you get an answer.
[02:31] <C_Smith> I saw it, that stuff looks sweet.
[02:31] <thefinn93> yeah
[02:31] <thefinn93> I've also got a box of various Ubuntu stuff
[02:31] <C_Smith> also, a question on that,
[02:32] <thefinn93> yes?
[02:32] <C_Smith> can I get some of that for my guests?
[02:32] <thefinn93> i don't see why not
[02:32] <C_Smith> cool
[02:32] <C_Smith> like I have said before, this is going to be one of the highlights of my weekend.
[02:33] <thefinn93> this is going to be the only thing happening over my weekend
[02:33] <thefinn93> :|
[02:33] <jvlb> Have we finished with item 2?
[02:33] <thefinn93> um
[02:33] <thefinn93> yes
[02:33] <thefinn93> Item #3
[02:33] <thefinn93> Oneiric Release Party Planning
[02:34] <thefinn93> this is totally up to Ben
[02:34] <thefinn93> I'm not even gonna be there
[02:34] <thefinn93> so
[02:34] <jvlb> Call it a party and I'll show up.
[02:34] <thefinn93> does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, etc related to that
[02:34] <thefinn93> alright
[02:34] <thefinn93> anything else?
[02:35] <C_Smith> I'll have to plan ahead for the release party, but if it's on a weekend, I should be able to make it.
[02:35] <thefinn93> ok
[02:35] <thefinn93> alright
[02:35] <jvlb> Is it expected that it will be held at Puppet Labs.
[02:35] <thefinn93> I have no idea
[02:35] <C_Smith> I blame school for that restriction on my time
[02:36] <thefinn93> fair enough
[02:36] <thefinn93> jvlb, I know there was discussion of holding some of the release parties in different cities
[02:37] <jvlb> The Biblical 7-day week may be implicated, as well.
[02:37] <thefinn93> yep
[02:37] <thefinn93> ok
[02:37] <thefinn93> Item #4
[02:37] <thefinn93> Ubuntu Hour
[02:37] <jvlb> I'm in Salem; it's pretty different.
[02:37] <thefinn93> yeah
[02:37] <jvlb> What is Ubuntu Hour?
[02:37] <thefinn93> Good question
[02:37] <thefinn93> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
[02:37] <thefinn93> that's what I know
[02:38] <thefinn93> I haven't heard anything about this
[02:38] <thefinn93> any thoughts?
[02:39] <bkerensa> hi all
[02:39] <bkerensa> :D
[02:39] <jvlb> Sounds a bit nebulous.
[02:39] <thefinn93> bkerensa, glad you could join us
[02:39] <bkerensa> Sorry for my tardiness.... I was talking to a realtor/solar company owner
[02:39] <bkerensa> :P
[02:39] <thefinn93> you're only 40 minutes late
[02:39] <thefinn93> ah
[02:39]  * bkerensa slaps thefinn93
[02:39] <bkerensa> ok so where are we?
[02:39]  * thefinn93 demands that bkerensa explain Ubuntu Hour
[02:39] <C_Smith> I can, for one hour, give out Ubuntu CD I make (it'll be a limited amount) if that would count, I can also help other users with their Ubuntu troubles to the best of my ability
[02:40] <C_Smith> gotta love Lightscribe.
[02:40] <bkerensa> ok
[02:40] <C_Smith> I still would have to figure out where I would do this.
[02:40] <bkerensa> So Ubuntu Hour is a event that most locos hold
[02:41] <thefinn93> what does it entail?
[02:41] <bkerensa> its a social hour on a monthly basis that usually includes going to a bar/restaurant/cafe and socializing and talking linux
[02:41] <thefinn93> huh
[02:41] <thefinn93> ok
[02:41] <thefinn93> cool
[02:41] <thefinn93> what did you have in mind for us?
[02:41] <bkerensa> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntu.com%2FHour&ei=4vBeTuDvH4_ViAKOvNTJDg&usg=AFQjCNF4eEN27l86bm-7RJRbvp9Bw_97Fw
[02:41] <C_Smith> well, if I were to attend, It would have to be from the Salem/Keizer area, I have no way to make it up to Portland for that,
[02:41] <jvlb> The description makes it sound a bit presentational, like for the broader public.
[02:41] <bkerensa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
[02:42] <bkerensa> thats the wiki for Ubuntu Hour
[02:42] <thefinn93> yeah
[02:42] <bkerensa> C_Smith we will definately look at doing Ubuntu Hour's in Keizer/Salem if there is the demand
[02:42] <C_Smith> being as I am 19, I can't walk into a bar legally.
[02:43] <thefinn93> Same
[02:43] <thefinn93> well
[02:43] <thefinn93> 18
[02:43] <bkerensa> C_Smith well we can go to a restaurant/bar
[02:43] <bkerensa> or even a cafe
[02:43] <bkerensa> its open to our loco's discretion where we hold it
[02:43] <C_Smith> if it helps, I could scope out places in Salem for that.
[02:43] <thefinn93> that'd be awesome
[02:43] <C_Smith> brb
[02:44] <C_Smith> darned dog
[02:44] <thefinn93> :D
[02:44] <C_Smith> too afraid to go out the doggy dorr
[02:44] <C_Smith> *door
[02:44] <thefinn93> alright, anything else on the Ubuntu Hour?
[02:45] <thefinn93> 3
[02:45] <thefinn93> 2
[02:45] <thefinn93> 1
[02:45] <C_Smith> I'll scope out places tomorrow, It'll take me a while, but I should be able to find a place
[02:45] <thefinn93> cool
[02:45] <thefinn93> alright
[02:45] <thefinn93> thanks
[02:45] <thefinn93> ok, last scheduled item
[02:45] <thefinn93> Finding a place in the Willamette Valley for members to hang out at (such as in Salem/Keizer)
[02:46] <bkerensa> C_Smith: I'm unsure if their are internet cafes in Keizer or Salem but that might be a place to start
[02:46] <thefinn93> i guess that's what we're talking about
[02:46] <thefinn93> lol
[02:46] <bkerensa> =o
[02:46] <C_Smith> also, we should revisit item 3
[02:46] <C_Smith> I'll look for those.
[02:46] <thefinn93> yes, now the bkerensa showed up we should
[02:46] <thefinn93> ok
[02:46] <thefinn93> Item #3, this time with bkerensa
[02:46] <thefinn93> Oneiric Release Party Planning
[02:46] <bkerensa> Yes
[02:47] <thefinn93> do tell
[02:47] <bkerensa> So I'm thinking we might have this at Backspace although if PuppetLabs were up to it we could do it there again depending on them
[02:47] <bkerensa> Backspace is nice but I have hit roadblocks making arrangements with them
[02:47] <thefinn93> what about theos?
[02:47] <thefinn93> that's where 2600 meets, it's right next door and much quieter
[02:48] <bkerensa> They always give me a generic response of "Uhh we have lots of concerts and e-mail us" I e-mail and they never respond
[02:48] <C_Smith> I'll have to plan ahead myself, but I'm looking forward to this, if Guests are welcome, I'll have 1-2 other people with me,
[02:48] <thefinn93> cool
[02:48] <bkerensa> I'm unsure if we want to meet at a spot that 2600 meets
[02:48] <bkerensa> jk
[02:48] <bkerensa> :)
[02:48] <thefinn93> it's not like we're gonna over lap
[02:48] <C_Smith> 2600?
[02:48] <thefinn93> http://2600.net/
[02:48] <bkerensa> Theo's is definitely an option
[02:48] <thefinn93> ok
[02:49] <thefinn93> glad to hear
[02:49] <C_Smith> hmmm, I remember seeing that logo somewhere.
[02:49] <thefinn93> yeah
[02:49] <thefinn93> it's a magezine
[02:49] <thefinn93> and monthly meeting
[02:49] <C_Smith> ok
[02:49] <thefinn93> and they all use ubuntu, so, again, no reason we can;t borrow their meeting place
[02:50] <C_Smith> true.
[02:50] <bkerensa> Lets revisit this Oneirc planning at Global Jam
[02:51] <bkerensa> that way I can ponder and we can make some calls
[02:51] <bkerensa> :D
[02:51] <C_Smith> cool, I'll be sure and try to be a part of that.
[02:51] <thefinn93> cool
[02:51] <bkerensa> I have one thing to note.... Finn how many ppl are you bringing? Can we count on any 2600 people? anyone else bringing guests? Also I thought there were five people here finn
[02:51] <C_Smith> and that way I can try and get some of my planning I need done
[02:52] <thefinn93> ok, do we want to discuss the Willamette Vally people meeting some more?
[02:52] <bkerensa> C_Smith: Could you make the Oneiric party if we did it in Portland this time?
[02:52] <C_Smith> I'm bringing probably 4 other people
[02:52] <bkerensa> thefinn93: We will defer on Willamette Valley so C_Smith can get leads
[02:52] <thefinn93> ok
[02:52] <thefinn93> oh and I might bring one person
[02:52] <C_Smith> like I said, I would have to plan it out, but I'd like to make it there. so I'll do my best to make it.
[02:53] <thefinn93> she's not sure if she'll be available
[02:53] <bkerensa> thefinn93: Make it happen :)
[02:53] <thefinn93> working on it
[02:53] <C_Smith> but since it's so far in the future, I might have to say for sure at another time
[02:53] <C_Smith> but what day is it on?
[02:53] <bkerensa> In closing does anyone have any final questions for purposes of the meeting?
[02:53] <bkerensa> C_Smith: OCt 13 or so
[02:53] <C_Smith> k
[02:54] <bkerensa> Any final questions, comments or concerns?
[02:54] <bkerensa> Going once
[02:54] <bkerensa> Going twice
[02:54] <C_Smith> yeah, my foster parents don't plan 2 months ahead.
[02:54] <bkerensa> Sold to the Tux penguin walking out the door :)
[02:54] <thefinn93> wat
[02:54] <C_Smith> xD
[02:54] <thefinn93> ok </meeting>
[02:54] <C_Smith> moce
[02:54]  * bkerensa hereby adjourns this meeting
[02:54] <C_Smith> good
[02:54] <jvlb> Ta.
[02:55] <bkerensa> feel free to talk :)
[02:55] <thefinn93> bkerensa: you gotta do notes this time
[02:55] <bkerensa> I encourage everyone to idle on IRC
[02:55] <thefinn93> cuz I actually showed up
[02:55] <bkerensa> thefinn93: I will
[02:55] <thefinn93> cool
[02:55] <C_Smith> I did have something that was really not that important.
[02:55] <bkerensa> later even
[02:55] <thefinn93> oh?
[02:55] <thefinn93> do tell
[02:55] <bkerensa> C_Smith: feel free to add
[02:55] <C_Smith> but might help other people, making something like a podcast for the team
[02:55]  * bkerensa isnt gonna do meetings till late tonight so
[02:56] <bkerensa> C_Smith: Me and Finn are in the works of that.... It will be called Linuxified
[02:56] <bkerensa> Podcast/UStream even
[02:56] <C_Smith> cool
[02:56] <C_Smith> this would make it easier for members to stay up to date.
[02:56] <thefinn93> yeah
[02:57] <thefinn93> bkerensa, is this gonna be an official Ubuntu Oregon podcast?
[02:57] <bkerensa> Additionally... I'm working on getting a server for the loco for BNC so people can idle easier on irc here
[02:57] <thefinn93> cool
[02:57] <jvlb> So, did you hear what happened when Sarah Palin was told she needed to have a password with eight characters?
[02:57] <bkerensa> thefinn93: It will be a "friends of the loco" cast that way we can do what we choose versus CoC and other rules
[02:58] <thefinn93> ah
[02:58] <bkerensa> jvlb: She said Thomas Jefferson told her 4 was ok?
[02:58] <thefinn93> ok
[02:58] <jvlb> She got a puzzled look on her face, then blurted out, "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs."
[02:58] <bkerensa> ;p
[02:58] <thefinn93> :D
[02:59] <jvlb> Good night, all.
[02:59] <C_Smith> when it IS made, please post a link on the wiki, and
[03:00] <C_Smith> and I would like to help there, but I'd need some teaching about Wiki editing.
[03:01] <thefinn93> oh i saw a good guide to that
[03:01] <thefinn93> wiki markdown
[03:01] <C_Smith> the only thing I did to edit the Wiki entries I did, was copy and paste and edit what was needed.
[03:01] <thefinn93> lemme find it
[03:01] <thefinn93> ok
[03:02] <thefinn93> C_Smith, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page
[03:03] <C_Smith> thank you. that should help out a lot, if needed, using that, I might be able to help with the team Wiki page. can't say for sure, though
[03:03] <thefinn93> cool
[03:03] <C_Smith> just gimme a hollar if you need help with that, and I'll see if I'm feeling confident enough to try
[03:04] <thefinn93> we do
[03:04] <thefinn93> go for it
[03:04] <thefinn93> please
[03:04] <C_Smith> cool, I'll just need to know what needs to be edited ahead of time.
[03:04] <C_Smith> one thing I noticed that was outdated was the team meeting notice.
[03:05] <thefinn93> so update it
[03:05] <bkerensa> Ok guys I gotta run and fix a DOS printing issue... yes I said DOS
[03:05] <thefinn93> DOS
[03:05] <thefinn93> not Denial of Service
[03:05] <bkerensa> C_Smith: Will you be here in a hour or two I can go over the wiki with you then or sometime tomorrow even?
[03:06] <bkerensa> Finn give him my gtalk and FB info if he needs it
[03:06] <bkerensa> ttyl
[03:06] <thefinn93> ok
[03:06] <C_Smith> I'll likely be here for a few hours from now, I stay up at times until 11PM
[03:06] <thefinn93> alright
[03:07] <thefinn93> i'll be here until much too late
[03:07] <thefinn93> ie. 3am
[04:20] <C_Smith> meh, got an automessage and accidentally closed Pidgin.
[04:25] <C_Smith> gah, sound system went missing!
[04:32] <C_Smith> there's my sound.
[04:49]  * bkerensa is back
[04:52] <C_Smith> hey, there.
[04:52] <C_Smith> had to restart several things..... including the whole system
[04:53] <C_Smith> oh, well, everything is working as it should be now! :D
[04:54] <C_Smith> also, I added you in my Email, G+ and Facebook in case you need to get a hang of me, Email so that Thunderbird won't junk it, which is unlikely anyway.
[04:54] <bkerensa> kk
[04:54] <C_Smith> also, you needed to talk to me about something?
[04:54] <bkerensa> as for wiki I wanna wait to after global jam so I can meet with finn friday to discuss a new structure
[04:55] <C_Smith> cool, well, let me know whenever, I'll be sure and have a notepad open when you tell me, curse my horrid memory.
[04:56] <C_Smith> is OSCON usually held around July?
[04:57] <bkerensa> yep
[04:59] <C_Smith> cool, I might have to go there next year,
[05:00] <C_Smith> I gotta get up early tomorrow, gotta go to an appointment that's not for me.
[05:00] <bkerensa> kk
[05:00] <C_Smith> so I'd better get off.
[05:01] <C_Smith> I'll try to find a WiFi cafe tomorrow, though. might do a bit of searching online tonight
[05:01] <C_Smith> have a nice night!
[19:13] <C_Smith> g'day
[19:13] <thefinn93> g'day
[19:13] <thefinn93> want to send someone some lube?
[19:13] <thefinn93> http://www.wetsynergy.com/tryfree.php
[19:13] <thefinn93> they verify the email tho
[19:14] <C_Smith> ummm, no, that's okay.
[19:14] <thefinn93> lol
[19:14] <thefinn93> i sent some to a bunch of my friends
[19:15] <C_Smith> anyway, the reason I came on is a question regarding Oneiric, is the beta relatively safe to install, if I don't care about support? or should I wait for the stable release?
[19:15] <C_Smith> as you probably know, it went beta today.
[19:15] <thefinn93> oh
[19:16] <thefinn93> i wasn't actually aware that it went beta
[19:16] <thefinn93> i imagine it's safe to install
[19:16] <thefinn93> but i don't really know
[19:16] <thefinn93> i have a server in the basement running it
[19:16] <C_Smith> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/09/ubuntu-11-10-beta-released-reviewed/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG!+Ubuntu!%29&utm_content=FaceBook that
[19:16] <C_Smith> s where I read it.
[19:17] <C_Smith> OMG! Ubuntu has been a fairly reliable source for Ubuntu news.
[19:17] <thefinn93> yeah
[19:17] <C_Smith> but to be safe, I'll install it on a VM first.
[19:17] <thefinn93> alright
[19:17] <C_Smith> now for lunch
[19:18] <thefinn93> damn
[19:18] <thefinn93> no i386 server images
[19:20] <bkerensa> you can always upgrade and then downgrade
[19:20] <bkerensa> same install
[19:46] <C_Smith> hmmmm, well, either way, I'll install it in a VirtualBox (one of the reasons I always have the software handy)
[19:48] <C_Smith> meh, gotta go help someone move at around 3.....
[19:50] <C_Smith> hey, Ben, are you using the Beta?
[19:54] <tgm4883> Beta FTW
[19:57] <C_Smith> yeah, I'm looking into it myself, I'm gonna see how many programs I have installed via repos currently can be installed on Oneiric (Virtualbox will help a lot here)
[19:58] <C_Smith> doubt many of the PPAs I have are upgraded for it.
[20:00] <tgm4883> C_Smith, depending on the program, they may not need to be
[20:01] <C_Smith> cool
[20:01] <C_Smith> there'll likely be at least one, though, I have a lot of PPAs added.
[20:02] <tgm4883> really? what for?
[20:02] <C_Smith> almost all my software not included with Ubuntu is from a PPA, such as Super Boot Manager, Ubuntu Tweak, etc
[20:02] <C_Smith> and Cairo Dock
[20:03] <C_Smith> and a bunch more
[20:04] <C_Smith> I can easily get 2 lists of different PPAs list (excluding the default repos) in the default size of the list in the other software tab.
[20:05] <C_Smith> a lot of my stuff came from browsing Linoob.com and OMG! Ubuntu.
[20:07] <C_Smith> Jono has done it again! what a guy. http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/01/loco-team-portal-gets-blogging-support/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
[20:07] <C_Smith> looks like this might be a good change.
[20:08] <tgm4883> Anyone know if the UDS sponsorship list has been sent out yet?
[20:08] <tgm4883> bkerensa, didn't you review an ideapad?
[20:08] <C_Smith> I've no clue.
[20:09] <C_Smith> and unfortunately for us in the LoCo team blog page, they need the team to be approved, and I don't believe we are....
[20:09] <bkerensa> tgm4883: I have one but I probably wont review it for a month.... I got it for two months and got to many other things I gotta review
[20:10] <tgm4883> is that the 7 in for 199?
[20:13] <bkerensa> umm no
[20:13] <bkerensa> the one I got is $499 I think
[20:14] <tgm4883> ah
[20:14] <tgm4883> looking at the specs for the 7in, i'm not as excited as I once was
[20:23] <C_Smith> lol, Dane Cook
[20:27] <bkerensa> The one I have is epic nice
[20:27] <bkerensa> better than a iPad imho
[20:32] <C_Smith> bah, the beta doesn't have CDs....
[20:36] <C_Smith> meh, might as well upgrade.
[20:48] <C_Smith> bah, the upgrade failed..... >.<
[20:49] <C_Smith> oh well, guess I'll wait.
[21:19] <tgm4883> C_Smith, the beta doesn't have CD's?
[21:19] <C_Smith> not on the beta page, the daily build page, does, though.
[21:21] <C_Smith> the Beta page only has DVD images,
[21:25] <tgm4883> C_Smith, where is the beta page?
[21:26] <tgm4883> I'm just looking at the Wiki and it seems fine there
[21:36] <C_Smith> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ <- the page I looked at.
[21:38] <C_Smith> what's the page you were looking at?
[21:40] <tgm4883> C_Smith, the non-dvd page
[21:41] <tgm4883> C_Smith, from here  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview/Beta1
[21:42] <tgm4883> C_Smith, go to http://releases.ubuntu.com/oneiric/
[21:42] <C_Smith> k
[21:42] <C_Smith> yeah, that had the images I was looking for,
[21:52] <C_Smith> wow.... the upgrade manager finally worked. on the 3rd try
[22:01] <C_Smith> bkarensa, are you waiting for 11.10 to go stable, or are you using the new beta?
[22:07] <bkerensa> I use Natty not sure what im gonna do for oneiric
[22:26] <C_Smith> hmmmm, well, I'm gonna try installing Oneiric Beta 1, if it doesn't go well, I can always go back to Natty.
[22:31] <tgm4883> I use 11.10 with gnome 3
[22:33] <C_Smith> I might have to do that myself, only one of the indicators I use (battery-status) works on Unity.
[23:27] <C_Smith> meh, my connection must not be as good as I thought, several hours to update.