[17:26] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:01] <kcj> Morning.
[18:01] <kcj> But if I'm up this early in the morning it usually means I haven't slept. Which is the case.
[18:03] <ibeardslee> Had to do an airport run, so got into the office early (I'll see if I have the strength to actually leave early!)
[18:04] <kcj> That'd be good.
[18:05] <kcj> I just have to cut my grass.
[18:05] <ibeardslee> not overly impressed with the way sandflies have taken a liking to my blood :(
[18:05] <kcj> Yeah.
[18:05] <kcj> You can $solution for that.
[19:52] <Atamira> morning


[10:31] <kaan> hello ii recently instaed ubunutu gnome but i have a rather strange bug where my mouse pointer leaves copies of itsef on the screen where i stopped moving it and they reman until i restart the computer does anyone know how to ffiicx this issue
[12:34] <dAnjou> Noskcaj, ricotz: hey, sorry to bother you directly. i'm having problems with gitg 3.17.1-1 in 16.04 and i found this log https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/30/%23ubuntu-gnome.html but it doesn't contain a solution. have you been able to resolve the issue? error is "gitg: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/gitg/libgitg-1.0.so.0: undefined symbol:
[12:34] <dAnjou> ggit_cred_ssh_key_from_agent_new"
[12:46] <jbicha> dAnjou: are you trying to build gitg from source? because you shouldn't see that error if you aren't
[12:47] <dAnjou> nope, using the distro package
[12:48] <dAnjou> maybe someone can give me a hashsum of that library
[12:48] <dAnjou> it's possible that i screwed something up by trying to compile it before
[12:49] <jbicha> I don't feel you're providing us enough information…
[12:49] <jbicha> sudo apt install --reinstall gitg
[12:49] <dAnjou> i'd love to provide more
[12:49] <dAnjou> did that
[12:50] <dAnjou> i just purged gitg and checked whether /usr/lib/gitg/libgitg-1.0.so.0 exists. it doesn't
[12:50] <dAnjou> reinstalling now
[12:50] <dAnjou> same error
[12:51] <jbicha> the part that concerns me is where you said you tried to compile it before, and you're pointing to a discussion about an error seen during build
[12:52] <jbicha> are you able to reproduce this bug in a clean Ubuntu install? like in VirtualBox?
[12:52] <dAnjou> thing is, i'm not sure whether i tried to compile it on *this* machine
[12:52] <dAnjou> guess i have to try that
[12:52] <jbicha> if you can reproduce it from a clean install, please run
[12:52] <jbicha> ubuntu-bug gitg
[12:53] <jbicha> and give the steps for how to reproduce
[13:04] <ricotz> dAnjou, is there a /usr/local/lib/gitg/libgitg-1.0.so.0 ?
[13:06] <dAnjou> no
[13:07] <ricotz> dAnjou, output of "which gitg" and "ldd `which gitg`"
[13:08] <dAnjou> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lK7zGVgV/
[13:09] <ricotz> there you go! -> libgit2-glib-1.0.so.0 => /usr/local/lib/libgit2-glib-1.0.so.0
[13:10] <dAnjou> but that exists
[13:10] <ricotz> if you run "sudo make install" you should know what is going to happen
[13:10] <ricotz> yes, but it picks up a local custom file which is likely outdated
[13:10] <ricotz> "libgit2-glib-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgit2-glib-1.0.so.0" is correct
[13:10] <dAnjou> okay, so i guess i *did* try to compile it on this machine
[13:11] <dAnjou> is it enough to delete that other one?
[13:11] <ricotz> there are likely more of such files
[13:12] <ricotz> look into /usr/local this folder normally should not exists at all
[13:12] <ricotz> "sudo make uninstall" from the original build folder is what you would want
[13:13] <ricotz> sorry, but you are on your own with such things
[13:15] <dAnjou> yup, messed that up myself. but thank you very much for looking at it!
[13:16] <dAnjou> usually i try to use checkinstall but maybe i didn't this time
[13:19] <dAnjou> yay, it works now
[13:20] <dAnjou> thanks again, jbicha and ricotz
[13:33] <jbicha> ricotz: I just noticed that mdeslaur updated wk2 to 2.14.2 for xenial-security
[13:34] <ricotz> jbicha, yeah, epiphany 3.18.10 is a go ;)
[13:35] <jbicha> according to https://webkitgtk.org/security/WSA-2016-0006.html 2.14.0 is the security update so that didn't help yakkety where 2.14.2 is stuck in phased-updates


[09:43] <mup> PR # closed: snapd#10145, snapd#10183, snapd#10191, snapd#10192
[12:03] <mup> PR snapd#10193 closed: many: move responsibilities down seboot -> kernel/fde and boot -> secboot <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10193>


[10:07]  * Kilos waves to all
[10:14] <superfly> hi Kilos
[10:21]  * nlsthzn_work waves
[10:25]  * kbmonkey waves
[11:33] <sakhi> hi Kilos
[11:33] <kbmonkey> hi kilos
[11:36] <Kilos> hiya sakhi kbmonkey
[11:36] <Kilos> howdy superfly
[11:36] <kbmonkey> I might be moving to CT soon
[11:37] <Kilos> eish that no good weather there unless you a penguin
[11:37] <Kilos> or very fat so you got insulation
[11:38] <kbmonkey> ja i'll have to gather a couple warm bodies to insulate me
[11:38] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[11:38] <Kilos> that can work
[11:39] <Kilos> kbmonkey, why do you say might
[11:40] <kbmonkey> well to see if i can find tenants for this place, maybe find a job in CT, and a place to stay
[11:41] <kbmonkey> and its a big, big place!
[11:41] <Kilos> thats a big shift from durbs weather to ct weather
[11:41] <kbmonkey> dit sal lekker wees om op blouberg strand weer te loop :)
[11:41] <Kilos> die water is te koud om te swem daar
[11:42] <Kilos> but the crash kid managed
[11:42] <kbmonkey> ek het al daai waters geswem en 5am nogal. te koud, i'd rather watch ty!
[11:43] <Kilos> lol
[11:43] <Kilos> i couldnt even get past my knees at 3pm inna avy
[11:43] <kbmonkey> swem is vir die visse :p
[11:44] <Kilos> nee man dis lekker en baie gesond
[11:44] <kbmonkey> plus my netbook will get wet!
[11:44] <Kilos> en die strande vol talent
[11:44] <kbmonkey> apt-get install wetsuit
[11:44] <Kilos> lol
[11:45] <Kilos> ask nuvolari  every now and again he goes to the beach to let his tongue hang out
[11:46] <kbmonkey> heehee
[11:49] <nlsthzn_work> the sea water in the cape it too cold... to have fun you have to be on the east coast :p
[11:49] <Kilos> yip
[11:50] <Kilos> do you ever go to the beach up there nlsthzn
[11:51] <nlsthzn_work> Sure... but here it is more like a big flat bath... I think if this lot had to see some proper waves they would run away yelling tsunami :/
[11:51] <Kilos> hee hee hee
[11:52] <Kilos> haai ma, kydaai groot dam
[11:54] <nlsthzn_work> The local beach here you can walk into it about half a kilometer and then your knees get wet :p
[11:54] <nlsthzn_work> it does get deeper further on... deep enough for big scary ships to float along...
[11:55] <Kilos> oh my, no body surfing there hey
[11:55] <Kilos> need to windsurf
[11:56] <Kilos> sea water very healthy
[11:56] <kbmonkey> but it tastes not so good, not as good as Maaz's coffee at least
[11:57] <nlsthzn_work> I am not so sure... you know all the things fish get up to in there :p
[11:57] <Kilos> lol
[11:58] <Kilos> nature keeps the sea clean, only man pollutes it
[11:58] <kbmonkey> true Kilos. I worry about all the radioactive stuff in there :/
[12:00] <Kilos> kbmonkey, i dont wanna worry you, but
[12:00] <Kilos> need to see if i figure correctly
[12:00] <Kilos> anyone else can jump in as well
[12:01] <Kilos> that recovery mode when you get you boot options must be after grub has done its bit or not
[12:01] <Kilos> like a scandisk chkdsk tool
[12:02] <kbmonkey> what do you mean?
[12:02] <Kilos> well, let me try explain my fuguring
[12:02] <kbmonkey> do you want to fix your recovery boot option?
[12:02] <Kilos> figuring
[12:03] <Kilos> yes but just wait first. i need to know if i am on the right track
[12:03] <Kilos> my grub boots kiff
[12:04] <Kilos> ian bust his dpkg and that recovery repaired it
[12:04] <Kilos> also i have used it when pc got slow
[12:04] <kbmonkey> ok
[12:04] <Kilos> so surely it checks everything not just grub
[12:05] <Kilos> somewhere there must be a package that installs the recovery mode
[12:06] <Kilos> im sure its not part of brub
[12:06] <Kilos> or even grub
[12:07] <Kilos> see we often get power cuts here and thats a great way to fix without having to bug you guys
[12:08] <kbmonkey> im not sure what you mean by "surely it checks everything not just grub"
[12:09] <Kilos> ok , here is an example
[12:09] <Kilos> my nm didnt connect once time and i ran the recovery and it worked after that
[12:09] <Kilos> and similar things
[12:10] <kbmonkey> ah
[12:10] <kbmonkey> recovery mode, as far as i know, just boots you into a root terminal. yes?
[12:10] <Kilos> even evolution couldnt open once and recovery fixed that
[12:10] <kbmonkey> it doesnt magically fix everything, it just gives you access to a terminal to do stuff in
[12:11] <Kilos> it just runs lotsa script on its own
[12:11] <kbmonkey> umm... im not too sure about that
[12:11] <Kilos> checks lotsa stuff too fast to follow and then gives you the option to boot normally
[12:11] <kbmonkey> recovery mode just boots a root login. those 'scripts' you see is the usual boot process, but normally ubuntu hides it
[12:11] <kbmonkey> recovery mode just shows those boot scripts for debugging puposes
[12:12] <kbmonkey> oh wait... did ubuntu change the recovery mode maybe?
[12:12]  * nlsthzn_work has no idea as he never has to use the recovery console... he does things the Windows way...
[12:13] <Kilos> i dunno i have googled lots but most of it has to do with windows probs
[12:13] <Kilos> windows way format and reinstall
[12:13] <Kilos> lol
[12:14] <kbmonkey> recovery boot option boots into a text only runlevel as root
[12:14] <kbmonkey> which is why some people opt to disable that option
[12:14] <Kilos> but anyway kbmonkey i did all that stuff in that link you gave me so my grub is kiff
[12:15] <kbmonkey> the fact that your jumps back to the grub menu, indicates that your boot option is misconfigured, cannot boot the kernel, and returns back to grub :)
[12:15] <Kilos> nee man ek kan lekker boot
[12:15] <kbmonkey> i will install an ubuntu VM and have a look for you :)
[12:15] <Kilos> no rush lad
[12:16] <kbmonkey> but you said there was something to  fix?
[12:16] <Kilos> yes pc slow
[12:16] <kbmonkey> oh ja ill just let in install in the background while i work here
[12:16] <kbmonkey> oooh
[12:16] <Kilos> use maverick if you got
[12:17] <Kilos> i have got the ureadahead going  as well
[12:17] <Kilos> that frightened me a bit
[12:17] <kbmonkey> ureadawhat?
[12:17] <kbmonkey> ;P
[12:17] <Kilos> the article said remove the packs outa it
[12:18] <Kilos> lol
[12:18] <Kilos> and until rebooting pc was even worse
[12:18] <Kilos> lol
[12:18] <kbmonkey> what release # is that?
[12:18] <Kilos> then the ureadahead reconfigured
[12:19] <Kilos> maverick
[12:19] <Kilos> 10.10
[12:19] <kbmonkey> is that 10.10?
[12:19] <kbmonkey> ah :)
[12:19] <kbmonkey> i have a 10.10 iso
[12:21] <Kilos> tumbles said it an ugly one that a reinstall would get rid of
[12:21] <Kilos> so its not speletjies
[12:22] <kbmonkey> what 'packs' did this article say to remove?
[12:22] <kbmonkey> what article?
[12:22] <kbmonkey> this is confusing!
[12:22] <Kilos> ureadahead
[12:23] <kbmonkey> oh
[12:24] <kbmonkey> that only improves your boot speed hey, not your general speed
[12:24] <Kilos> i think i asked maaz to google it for me sec i check
[12:24] <Kilos> yes thats right
[12:24] <Kilos> but i taking over 1 1/2 mins to boot
[12:24] <Kilos> that like windows
[12:25] <kbmonkey> be careful with that, people who obsess with boot times usually do so at detriment to the rest of the system ;)
[12:25] <Kilos> used to be under a min
[12:25] <kbmonkey> it shouldnt slow down that much.
[12:25] <Kilos> i am not trying to make it better than it was
[12:25] <kbmonkey> did ureadahead help?
[12:25] <Kilos> oh yes
[12:26]  * nlsthzn_work hasn't seen any version of Ubuntu boot that slow...
[12:26] <kbmonkey> me neither nlsthzn. maybe something else was the problem Kilos?
[12:26] <Kilos> when booting it used to bring the ubuntu logo with the 5 circles under it
[12:26] <kbmonkey> im very suspicious of faulty hardware when my speed goes.
[12:27] <kbmonkey> i haven't shut down in 8 days. and nearly for a month last month!
[12:27] <Kilos> now it actually brings it up twice and then goes to password page
[12:27] <kbmonkey> pc's lifetime shortens when you turn it on/off regularly
[12:28] <Kilos> lol i dont have a choice eskom does it for me
[12:28] <kbmonkey> ureadahaead messes with the boot process, i'm not surprised its all sillly now
[12:28] <kbmonkey> lol yes those buggers
[12:28] <kbmonkey> i bought my old man a UPS for xmas last year. i swear by these things
[12:29] <Kilos> ya
[12:29] <kbmonkey> then perhaps Kilos, a reinstall some day is needed :(
[12:30] <kbmonkey> i try make backups regularly of my boot/OS partitions so if something like that breaks, i can restore to last backup state. it saves me to reinstall and update everything again :)
[12:30] <Kilos> yeah kbmonkey i would if not for the data prob.the update and upgrade are way too much
[12:31] <kbmonkey> i underwstand this data prob Kilos, its very sad.
[12:31] <Kilos> dont forget sudo apt-get update is over 20 megs alone
[12:31] <kbmonkey> talking to someone in sweden, they have a ridiculous cap of like 200gb :/
[12:31] <Kilos> wow
[12:32]  * nlsthzn_work does not have a cap :p
[12:32] <Kilos> christmas all year round
[12:32] <kbmonkey> and here we sukkel so
[12:32]  * nlsthzn_work just doesn't have enough hard drive space for everything ;)
[12:32] <kbmonkey> nlsthzn i was on uncapped, but still its so stupid they throttle you when you go over a certain amount. :/
[12:33] <nlsthzn_work> kbmonkey: sure... I still have to find that limit though...
[12:33] <kbmonkey> i was seeding linux distros and went to like 30GiB and that put me in the top 20% of usage. they made me slower than a 3G card. i am so cross :(
[12:33] <Kilos> eish
[12:34] <kbmonkey> but now i went onto a limit again and i remembered at least i still have irc so its all good!
[12:34] <Kilos> lol you like me
[12:34] <Kilos> irc and pidgin work kiff
[12:35] <kbmonkey> yes :)
[12:36] <Kilos> kbmonkey, have you put out cv's for work
[12:36] <kbmonkey> Kilos you should find out if there are any wireless groups in your region
[12:36] <Kilos> or you gonna go to the cape and then try
[12:36] <Kilos> the nearest house here is 500 metres
[12:36] <Kilos> we onna plot
[12:37] <kbmonkey> flat land?
[12:37] <Kilos> but then i would need a wireless card as well or not
[12:37] <Kilos> yeah
[12:37] <kbmonkey> wireless cards have short range
[12:37] <kbmonkey> you get antennas that can extend your range into the km's :)
[12:38] <kbmonkey> but those are line-of-sight, but on flat land you wil have plenty of that :)
[12:38] <Kilos> is there a way to check if there is wireless in the area without going door to door
[12:38] <kbmonkey> in the city, its not so easy
[12:38] <kbmonkey> there is!
[12:38] <kbmonkey> durban/CT wireless user groups have websites that list all the people
[12:38] <Kilos> i found something in the old nokia that said search but it found nothing
[12:39] <kbmonkey> we can find your region's site if there is one. lets hope!
[12:39] <Kilos> i dunno if you must tell it what for first
[12:39] <kbmonkey> old nokia? what?
[12:39] <Kilos> 9300i
[12:39] <kbmonkey> no you wont pick anything up yet.
[12:39] <kbmonkey> the idea is to find others and setup antenna to point to your friends
[12:39] <kbmonkey> and _then_ you can pick them up :)
[12:40] <Kilos> if i can find something i will use that fone as a modem
[12:40] <kbmonkey> even not, you can setup internet sharing and go dutch on a landline
[12:41] <Kilos> no landlines left here all cables stolen
[12:41] <kbmonkey> you can get ranges from 5 to 15km, and even 50km+
[12:42] <kbmonkey> oh really? wow!
[12:42] <Kilos> murphy says "as jy kan sukkel, sal jy"
[12:42] <Kilos> telcom even gave up replacing them
[12:42] <kbmonkey> what is the nearest town? how far?
[12:42] <Kilos> pta about 15ks
[12:43] <kbmonkey> ah, great stuff. there a a pta wug :)
[12:43] <kbmonkey> http://www.ptawug.co.za
[12:44] <Kilos> ok i go try lynx
[12:44] <kbmonkey> yes its mostly reading there
[12:44] <kbmonkey> wow its the biggest wug in SA nogal
[12:46] <kbmonkey> chances are that some people in that wug also have the ubuntu repos shared so you could even update your pc all the time without internet
[12:46] <kbmonkey> its like being on a local network with a whole bunch of other people
[12:47] <Kilos> will check it ou ty kbmonkey
[13:20] <Kilos> sorry. debs came on pidgin to say night
[13:20] <Kilos> aw there no ptawug on irc
[13:25] <Kilos> they say they dont provide internet access
[13:26] <Kilos> sigh
[13:43] <Kilos> they have irc but on another server
[13:43] <Kilos> not freenode
[13:50] <Kilos> hehe they got a funny bot
[13:50] <Kilos> * infobot steals some of 's special coffee and gives it to on on a silver platter.
[13:50] <Kilos> thats how it makes coffee
[14:38] <somaunn> hello everyone
[14:38] <Kilos> hiya somaunn
[14:40] <somaunn> Kilos, hello
[14:41] <somaunn> i'm actually having a problem when setting my asus G2s laptop
[14:42] <somaunn> actually graphic card is configured,sound ok, wireless okay
[14:42] <somaunn> but in fact i want to activate all the 4 speakers, control the light and have my webcam working
[14:43] <somaunn> but cannot find a good tuto to do that
[14:43] <somaunn> is there someone who ever tried to that before ?
[14:45] <Kilos> are the speakers internal or plugin
[14:46] <Kilos> i find this with maaz's help
[14:47] <Kilos> dunno if it will help
[14:47] <Kilos> http://www.techreaction.net/2011/05/04/review-genius-sw-g2-1-1250-4-piece-gaming-speakers/
[14:50] <Kilos> somaunn, are you using ubuntu
[14:51] <Kilos> i find it needs drivers for the webcam for windows
[14:52] <Kilos> here is the link for ubuntu
[14:52] <somaunn> Kilos, internal
[14:52] <somaunn> the G2S get 4 internal speakers but when installed the system's only using 2 of them
[14:52] <Kilos> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-913832.html
[14:53] <Kilos> are you using ubuntu somaunn
[14:54] <somaunn> Kilos, yes i'm using natty narwhall
[14:54] <Kilos> ok check above link for the webcam drivers
[14:58] <somaunn> Kilos, okay jumping there right now
[14:58] <somaunn> i mean i'm really using the webcam everytime
[15:00] <somaunn> the integrated Oled screen,speakers and external lights that's my point
[15:00] <Kilos> oh sorry
[15:01] <somaunn> Kilos, no it's me i wasn't precise when asking for help. Sorry
[15:01] <Kilos> np
[15:02] <Kilos> what external lights has it got
[15:02] <Kilos> like disco lights
[15:02] <Kilos> i know very little about laptops
[15:03] <somaunn> Kilos, yes ! look like disco lights
[15:03] <Kilos> lol
[15:04] <Kilos> what does the manual say or is that only for windows
[15:04] <Kilos> maybe there is another asus user here that can help you
[15:06] <somaunn> i've googled a bit about tht light
[15:06] <somaunn> some said they got it working great
[15:07] <somaunn> even speakers but i cannot find a good tuto to do the same
[15:07] <kbmonkey> i also have little laptop experience and ubuntu
[15:07] <kbmonkey> but google might know
[15:08] <Kilos> kbmonkey,  what would you ask google to find. maybe i asking wrong
[15:09] <kbmonkey> mmm im thinking
[15:09] <Kilos> i get hd indicator lights
[15:09] <kbmonkey> no you searched well kilos but that page in that link doesnt exist anymore ? weird
[15:09] <Kilos> aw
[15:10] <Kilos> murphy back again
[15:10] <kbmonkey> he is. lol :)
[15:10] <kbmonkey> so the laptop has 4 speakers and only two work?
[15:11] <somaunn> is there an asus channel on irc?
[15:11] <kbmonkey> somaunn i would try use the alsamixer program to see the audio channel levels, maybe the speakers are mute?
[15:11] <somaunn> kbmonkey, yes
[15:11] <kbmonkey> thats a good start
[15:13] <kbmonkey> your webcam might work with this help http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=666149
[15:14] <kbmonkey> wow sorry the G2S doesnt seem to like ubuntu OTB
[15:18] <somaunn> kbmonkey, means ?
[15:18] <Kilos> http://asusg50oled.sourceforge.net/
[15:18] <kbmonkey> otb == out the box
[15:19] <somaunn> kbmonkey, ok
[15:20] <Kilos> and here is an ubuntu asus help
[15:20] <kbmonkey> that's what is on the G2S?
[15:20] <Kilos> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?2819-ubuntu-on-asus-g2-help
[15:20] <Kilos> hope that helps
[15:22] <Kilos> i find quite a bit for windows drivers but that just hurts my head
[15:23] <kbmonkey> is there a problem with the video drivers?
[15:24] <somaunn> kbmonkey, nope
[15:31] <Kilos> last one linux laptop wiki for that asus
[15:31] <Kilos> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/asus+g2s
[15:32] <Kilos> good luck
[15:38] <Kilos> kbmonkey, i just remembered something about jobs
[15:38] <Kilos> a little while back someone was looking for someone to do linux aedmin i think it was
[15:39] <Kilos> try selling yourself on the lists. i am sure it was on there
[15:39] <kbmonkey> yes i also remember thanks Kilos!
[15:40] <Kilos> yw good luck
[15:48] <somaunn> Kilos, checking on that link
[15:48] <Kilos> i hope it helps somaunn . otherwise i am lost
[16:05] <somaunn> still working on it
[16:07] <kbmonkey> mmm, what is the first issue to solve?
[16:07] <kbmonkey> one at a time should be easier
[16:08] <somaunn> kbmonkey, the internal Oled (just for fun)
[16:09] <kbmonkey> okay :)
[16:09] <kbmonkey> Maaz search asus G2s oled linux driver
[16:09] <Maaz> kbmonkey: I couldn't find anything that matched 'asus G2s oled linux driver'
[16:11] <kbmonkey> http://lapsus.berlios.de/asus_oled.html
[16:12] <somaunn> kbmonkey, okay! maybe we can jump to another track
[16:12] <somaunn> external lights
[16:12] <kbmonkey> looks like you can install the drivers for oled
[16:18] <kbmonkey> what are these external lights? im a bit confused :p
[16:18] <Kilos> lol
[16:20] <somaunn> kbmonkey, the asus G2S had external lights that can be activated using fn+function key
[16:23] <kbmonkey> for what purpose? lol sorry im naive about flashing things :p
[16:24] <Kilos> lol
[16:25] <kbmonkey> the stuff i see online doesnt saymuch about the lights
[16:25] <kbmonkey> or the oled
[16:26] <Kilos> what is oled
[16:26] <kbmonkey> its like a led panel on the case i think?
[16:26] <somaunn> kbmonkey, yes
[16:27] <kbmonkey> hmm, it seems like all the other g2s people concentrated to get the essentials working, not so much the lights or led
[16:29] <kbmonkey> somaunn there are plenty laptops that ubuntu is always working on to be 100% https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
[16:31] <kbmonkey> that asus is not even listed on the laptop test page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Old
[16:41] <Kilos> kbmonkey, that wug is outa reach at the moment. they want you to map where you are with google earth and take photos off your roof
[16:41] <Kilos> hehe
[16:41] <Kilos> but lynx works kiff and is very economical
[16:42] <Kilos> im still under 2m for the day
[16:42] <kbmonkey> yes i use it now too sometimes :)
[16:43] <Kilos> but they dodo's as well they say you gotta buy and antennae but dont give prices, and i am sure i can build my own
[16:44] <Kilos> i think all aerials still use the same fomulae as radio
[16:44] <kbmonkey> they dont give prices because the shops vary i suppose, if you canbuilt your own evenbetter!
[16:44] <Kilos> so its just the wireless card to get
[16:45] <Kilos> gotta formula still in head for 35 years 486 over freq in megs
[16:46] <kbmonkey> wow
[16:46] <Kilos> funny how some things stick
[16:46] <Kilos> hehe
[16:47] <Kilos> i used to make wire aerials for cb and ham radios
[16:47] <Kilos> when i was young and sexy
[16:47] <Kilos> now im just sexy
[16:47] <kbmonkey> yes then you will have no problem!
[16:47] <kbmonkey> ha ha
[16:47] <kbmonkey> im too sexy for my shirt, my shirt, my shiiiirt
[16:47] <Kilos> hee hee hee
[16:48] <kbmonkey> well wireless 802.11 specification says what freq it runs on, im sure all the info is available
[16:48] <Kilos> they say they use 2.6g and 5.2g
[16:48] <kbmonkey> if you can build those for cheaper im sure you could sell them
[16:49] <Kilos> so its actually not a very big one
[16:49] <kbmonkey> cos the retails ones range from 1500 to 2000
[16:49] <Kilos> wow
[16:49] <kbmonkey> yes, wow
[16:49] <kbmonkey> id have had one long ago if not for that!
[16:50] <Kilos> do you have a wireless card
[16:50] <kbmonkey> i did some electronics so could maybe build one, a timely task
[16:50] <kbmonkey> i do
[16:50] <Kilos> what kinda plug does it have for the antennae
[16:50] <kbmonkey> it has a short arial screwed into the card
[16:51] <kbmonkey> il need to check but think its a small RF connector
[16:51] <kbmonkey> standard arial connectors
[16:51] <Kilos> do you have wireless in the area
[16:52] <Kilos> no man they differ from tv to radios to cellphones
[16:53] <kbmonkey> this one guy made an antenna from a pringles can LOL
[16:53] <Kilos> but then them wug guys gotta give you an IP
[16:53] <Kilos> lol
[16:53] <kbmonkey> im not sure how it all works
[16:54] <Kilos> ok we will talk about that when your studies are done
[16:54] <Kilos> i will explain
[16:55] <Kilos> if the signal is strong in your area you dont need to make a yagi type on antennae like a tv one
[16:55] <Kilos> they are directional
[16:56] <Kilos> you make what is called a dipole
[16:56] <Kilos> 2 pieces copper wire and your coax and plug
[16:56] <kbmonkey> oh directional! okay
[17:27] <drubin> Ludo: Ludo is back ;)
[17:27] <drubin> where were you?
[17:31] <Ludo> drubin erm life...
[17:31] <drubin> Ludo: blah :)
[17:32] <Ludo> had a heart to heart with inetpro last night.
[17:32] <Ludo> proo guy
[17:32] <Ludo> *poor
[17:32] <marcog> is the next irc meeting supposed to be tomorrow or the following monday?
[17:33] <kbmonkey> i think its next week marcog
[17:33] <drubin> marcog: tomorrow ;/
[17:33] <kbmonkey> oh tomorrow?!
[17:34] <drubin> according to the gcal
[17:41] <Ludo> what are you guys meeting about?
[17:41] <Kilos> monthly ubuntu meet
[17:41] <Kilos> hiya drubin
[17:43] <drubin> Kilos: Good and you?
[17:43] <Kilos> good ty drubin
[18:11] <Kilos> lo ghostknife
[18:13] <kbmonkey> it is too, my reminder completely failed me
[18:13] <Kilos> lol
[18:13] <kbmonkey> :/
[18:13] <ghostknife> hi hi
[18:13] <kbmonkey> i was meant to email everyone about it in advance.
[18:13] <Kilos> hurry
[18:14] <Kilos> you still got time
[18:14] <kbmonkey> well 2 days would have been ideal
[18:15] <Kilos> we will forgive you cause you a busy fella
[18:18] <kbmonkey> thanks for the encouragement Kilos!
[18:18] <Kilos> lol. yw
[18:19] <Kilos> dont you have an alarm kinda thing in your mail
[18:19] <Kilos> i think evolution has
[18:20] <kbmonkey> google emails me reminders
[18:20] <Kilos> lol and forgets
[18:20] <kbmonkey> i set it 2 days last month, wonder why it went to 6 hours. weird
[18:21] <kbmonkey> oh well fixed now
[18:22] <Kilos> some wesley guy just send a reminder mail
[18:23] <Kilos> aka apie
[18:23] <kbmonkey> fancy that as we spoke about it
[18:23] <Kilos> yeah
[18:23] <Kilos> you so lucky
[18:23] <Kilos> rofl
[18:24] <Kilos> i enjoyed that
[18:24] <Kilos> must be getting old and senile
[18:25] <kbmonkey> yes i am getting senile it seems! ;P
[18:25] <Kilos> me man. dont steal my thunder
[18:30] <kbmonkey> see it even shows here! he he
[18:31] <Kilos> what where
[18:31] <kbmonkey> in irc
[18:31] <kbmonkey> my senility
[18:31] <Kilos> you better tell maaz to announce it as well
[18:31] <Kilos> lol
[18:32] <kbmonkey> we should tell everyone to come 30 mins earlier, Maaz will have made them sarmies, wouldn't you Maaz ?
[18:32] <Kilos> pity we not clever enough to tell maaz to remind each person as and when they login here
[18:32] <Kilos> lol
[18:33] <kbmonkey> he can leave reminders like that, but i dont think everyone will come to irc before the meeting
[18:34] <Kilos> and not everyone reads list mails
[18:34] <Kilos> we need to teach maaz to send smses to their cellphones
[18:34] <Kilos> evryone looks at their smses
[18:37] <Kilos> hmm did that guy win with his lappy
[18:38] <Kilos> inetpro, meeting tomorrow night. be there
[18:38] <Kilos> here
[18:39] <kbmonkey> he he
[19:20] <Kilos> night everyone. sleep tight
[19:47] <nlsthzn> Guys, what time tomorrow?
[19:50] <kbmonkey> 19h30 i think nlsthzn
[19:51] <kbmonkey> T-23 hours 39 mins
[19:53] <nlsthzn> kbmonkey, ok, thought it would be (same as last time...) So I will just have arrived @ work so I doubt I will make it... enjoy it regardless )
[19:53] <nlsthzn> :)
[19:54] <kbmonkey> aw okay we'll keep some cookies for you
[20:18] <inetpro> good evening
[20:20] <inetpro> Maaz: tell kilos I will unfortunately not be able to attend the meeting due to other commitments
[20:20] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[20:30]  * nlsthzn waves night to all
[20:39] <kbmonkey> gn all
[22:14] <somaunn> i'm back on the track
[22:15] <somaunn> guys i need your advices
[22:16] <somaunn> i've actually found someone who really need to help our town to devellop and increase the usage of opensource softwares and system
[22:57] <somaunn> is there someone active <


[02:10] <KGB-2> gnome-shell Daniel van Vugt 303653 * commented merge request !59 * https://deb.li/3laSh
[05:30] <jibel> Good morning
[05:37] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[05:37] <jpnurmi> good morning jibel and oSoMoN
[05:38] <oSoMoN> hey jpnurmi
[05:38] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[05:53] <duflu> Hi jibel, oSoMoN, jpnurmi
[05:53] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[05:53] <jpnurmi> hey duflu
[07:10] <didrocks> good morning
[07:13] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:14] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:23] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:25] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:41] <Nafallo> morning from rainy gothenburg
[07:45] <duflu> Hi Nafallo
[08:06] <ricotz> good morning desktopers! :)
[08:06] <didrocks> hey ricotz
[08:06] <oSoMoN> good morning didrocks, Nafallo, ricotz
[08:07] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[08:07] <didrocks> tjaalton: mesa recommends mesa-amber, but I see no MIR for it?
[08:08] <didrocks> should it be dowgraded to suggests or do you want to file a MIR?
[08:08] <tjaalton> bug 1967086
[08:08] <didrocks> ah, I see bug #1967086, was not picked up in the diagram, feel free to ignore me :)
[08:13] <duflu> tjaalton, will amber override crocus?
[08:13] <duflu> Hi ricotz
[08:13] <tjaalton> duflu: no
[08:14] <duflu> Also great to see i915 will live on at least for jammy. So finally the software support should outlive the hardware
[08:15] <tjaalton> I'm fine making it Suggests
[08:15] <tjaalton> just the tradeoff is that the image won't have native dri driver for old hw then
[08:15] <tjaalton> also, I think Debian would have it Recommends anyway
[08:16] <duflu> That would be mostly really old Intel systems that need i915_dri: "Intel Core" branded systems and the original Atoms. They do exist so I would prefer they keep working or else where will be bug reports
[08:16] <tjaalton> r200 too
[08:16] <duflu> Because owners of those were logging bugs last year
[08:17] <tjaalton> and some nouveau
[08:17] <duflu> Forget nouveau. It causes more problems than it solves :(
[08:17] <tjaalton> those have no alternative
[08:18] <duflu> Fair enough
[08:18] <tjaalton> neither do many that mesa supports
[08:20] <duflu> The problem with not shipping those drivers is that such systems (Core Duo, Atoms) are really too slow to be usable on software rendering. So those systems might not get installed to the point of asking for support and being told to install amber
[08:22] <didrocks> tjaalton: I need to look at the MIR, but it should be fine, just being a rename
[08:23] <tjaalton> didrocks: right
[08:23] <tjaalton> thanks
[08:23] <didrocks> thanks for the feedback :)
[08:25] <seb128> hey didrocks Nafallo duflu ricotz tjaalton oSoMoN, how are you? had a nice weekend?
[08:27] <oSoMoN> Salut seb128! Week-end was good, I had some rest on Saturday as I was exhausted from the week, and spent all of Sunday gardening. How was your week-end?
[08:27] <duflu> seb128, an unfortunate series of events prevented me from getting enough sleep, but otherwise it was good. Friends and family
[08:28] <seb128> oSoMoN, it was alright, I managed to get some rest as well, though not as much as I would have liked. Also winter is back, I had already gotten used to the nice weather we had a week ago...
[08:30] <oSoMoN> yeah, the cold is back here too, we even had 2 minutes of snow yesterday, but it melted before even reaching the ground
[08:30] <oSoMoN> the forecast says temperatures will dramatically increase through the week though, we'll see…
[08:31] <seb128> duflu, sounds like busy but positive weeked at least and hopefully the week is quiet and you can catch up on sleep
[11:04] <rbasak> I'm finding this new theme in Jammy quite difficult. When I upgraded to a previous release (I forget which one exactly) the contrast between active and inactive title bars went down and I couldn't tell at a glance if a window was active without specifically comparing the title bars with other windows. But I noticed that only the active window had the title bar buttons in orange. So I started
[11:05] <rbasak> looking for that. But now, that's gone, and so there's no immediately obvious cue for me to tell if a window is active just by looking at it.
[11:05] <rbasak> It's basically just on comparing greys. And I can't differentiate the absolute level of grey just by looking at it.
[11:46] <seb128> rbasak, would be nice if you could report that as a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme/+filebug , the yaru team is active but they are not on IRC
[12:02] <jbicha> good morning
[12:06] <bittin> afternoon
[12:08] <seb128> jbicha, bittin, hey, how are you? had a nice weekend?
[12:08] <bittin> not really, having headache/cold but hopefully i feel better soon, just installed the 22.04 Beta however and ran apt updates to get the updates until 3th April and worked good
[12:10] <jbicha> yeah, weekend went ok here 🙂
[12:12] <seb128> bittin, great! (for the beta and upgrade, not the headache and cold :-()
[12:25] <rbasak> seb128: thank you for the pointer! I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme/+bug/1967747
[12:28] <seb128> rbasak, thanks!
[12:29] <rbasak> It didn't occur to me that the bug tracker would be useful to raise this kind of thing!
[12:29] <rbasak> So thank you for pointing that out
[13:08] <seb128> jbicha, could you try to update paprefs? we need 1.2 to be compatible with the new pulseaudio it seems
[13:10] <jbicha> ok
[13:12] <ahasenack> hi #desktop,
[13:13] <ahasenack> samba 4.15.x dropped "-l" for "net usershare add", the short option, now it must be "--long": net:
[13:13] <ahasenack> -l is not available for --long anymore
[13:13] <ahasenack> the command that nautilus uses to share a folder is using -l regrettably
[13:13] <ahasenack> and now it fails
[13:13] <ahasenack> root@nsn7:~# net usershare add -l Public /home/andreas/Public somecomment Everyone:R,andreas:F guest_ok=y
[13:13] <ahasenack> [2022/04/04 10:00:33, 0] ../../lib/util/debug.c:1100(reopen_one_log)
[13:13] <ahasenack>   reopen_one_log: Unable to open new log file 'Public/log.net': No such file or directory
[13:13] <ahasenack> see how it's interpreting it as some log file parameter
[13:13] <ahasenack> with --long it works
[13:14] <ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1967245 was filed, I'm about to reassign it to nautilus, I was just checking the code out to see how easy it's to change
[13:14] <ahasenack> hm, I don't see it in nautilus, even though that was the parent process of the "net usershare" command. Must be some library
[13:14] <seb128> ahasenack, hey, thanks, the source is nautilus-share
[13:14] <ahasenack> aha
[13:16] <ahasenack> might be just this: src/shares.c:	argv[1] = "-l";
[13:16] <seb128> ahasenack, probably yes
[13:19] <ahasenack> seb128: do you know if nautilus-share is in https://gitlab.gnome.org ? I can't find it atm
[13:19] <ahasenack> if you also have to search, n/m then, I can continue
[13:19] <seb128> ahasenack, it's at https://gitlab.gnome.org/Archive/nautilus-share but archived so read only and you can't propose fixes
[13:19] <ahasenack> just if you happen to have it from the top of your head
[13:20] <seb128> just upload your fix to ubuntu
[13:20] <seb128> or maybe talk to jbicha about getting it in Debian
[13:20] <ahasenack> ok, I was checking if upstream had fixed it already
[13:20] <ahasenack> is this app dead-ish upstream?
[13:21] <seb128> yes, that's why it was archived
[13:21] <seb128> if you test your change we can add it to Debian and sync back the update
[13:22] <seb128> I need to step out for a bit but I will read the backlog once back and other should be to help you more if needed
[13:22] <jbicha> it's not a Debian GNOME package so we'll push the nautilus-share update to jammy first & I can work on upstreaming to Debian later
[13:26] <ahasenack> k
[13:32] <ahasenack> jbicha: https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/nautilus-share/+git/nautilus-share/+merge/418382
[13:32] <ahasenack> ppa building
[13:46] <ahasenack> jbicha: it worked, but I had to logout/login back again
[13:46] <jbicha> ok
[13:46] <ahasenack> expected I guess, since it's an extension (.so)
[13:47] <ahasenack> good to upload?
[13:48] <jbicha> yes, are you able to do the upload?
[13:48] <ahasenack> yes
[13:49] <ahasenack> done
[14:41] <seb128> jbicha, oh, sorry for the noise, I though it was a pkg-gnome one
[14:42] <seb128> ahasenack, thanks for the fix !
[14:42] <ahasenack> \o/
[14:59] <KGB-2> gedit-plugins pristine-tar d155503 Jeremy Bicha gedit-plugins_42.0.orig.tar.xz.delta gedit-plugins_42.0.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gedit-plugins_42.0.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/VKP7
[15:57] <juliank> seb128: Do you know (anyone who knows) if there's any work  going on to have gnome-shell pop up a notification if systemd-oomd killed an app? Currently it's a bit unexpected to some users :)
[15:58] <juliank> We got a bug basically saying "app was killed but system was not in swap hell with everything stuttering", which I find hilarious
[16:01] <ddstreet> you mean lp:#1966381? oomd definitely doesn't look like it's ready to be enabled by default, imho
[16:04] <juliank> ddstreet: no it does exactly the right thing, preventing swap hell
[16:04] <ddstreet> juliank well no, it doesn't
[16:04] <juliank> ddstreet: it used 90% of RAM _AND_ 90% of swap
[16:04] <ddstreet> that's its intention, yes
[16:05] <juliank> ddstreet: That means it was about to enter swap hell
[16:05] <ddstreet> no it does not, actually
[16:06] <juliank> ddstreet: it means user had 100 MB of swap left
[16:06] <juliank> ddstreet: unrelated to the limit discussion, it seems the page cache issue is a bit overlooked and probably should be a separate bug?
[16:07] <juliank> ddstreet: Because I expect it to trigger when "available" in free falls below 10%
[16:07] <juliank> not "free"
[16:07] <juliank> in any case
[16:07] <juliank> > no sign of the "staggering" you normally get when the OS is heavily into swap.
[16:07] <juliank> this is precisely what we want
[16:07] <seb128> juliank, we don't have numbers of ram usage in those reports do we?
[16:08] <seb128> juliank, also is the 1G of swap by design, should we revisit to be higher?
[16:08] <juliank> seb128: It's 1GB by design, it's a performance optimization to make the kernel allocate memory faster, vs having no swap
[16:09] <seb128> an optimization that might not play nicely with the oomd logic?
[16:09] <juliank> The swap isn't really there for classic swap overcommitment use
[16:09] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638788 (build i386) stage: build, status: created
[16:09] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638787 (build) stage: build, status: created
[16:09] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638790 (test-build-any) stage: test, status: created
[16:09] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638791 (test-build-all) stage: test, status: created
[16:09] <juliank> it works fine IMO
[16:09] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638792 (test-crossbuild-arm64) stage: test, status: created
[16:09] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638793 (reprotest) stage: test, status: created
[16:09] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 365470 * pending (reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; extract-source: pending; build i386: created; piuparts: created; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; build: created)
[16:09] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638794 (lintian) stage: test, status: created
[16:09] <seb128> those reports suggest that it's confusing users and triggering in situation where the system usually didn't struggle
[16:09] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638797 (piuparts) stage: test, status: created
[16:10] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 365470 * running (extract-source: running; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; piuparts: created; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; build: created)
[16:10] <juliank> not considering the issue where the page cache is being counted
[16:10] <juliank> seb128: I believe that's ddcache's issue with page cache being counted as used memory rather than available
[16:10] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638786 (extract-source) stage: provisioning, status: success. Duration: 1 minute and 33 seconds
[16:10] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638789 (build source) stage: build, status: pending
[16:11] <seb128> juliank, sounds like a rls issue to me
[16:11] <juliank> seb128: but also you want to trigger oomd *before* the system struggles, that's the whole point of it
[16:11] <juliank> so that your system is not in swap hell
[16:11] <seb128> I feel like we are going to get users and PR slashback if the new LTS is seen as randomly killing applications on systems that users don't perceive as under load
[16:12] <seb128> juliank, well, those users have 16G memory and said they never had the system struggling
[16:13] <juliank> seb128: they should perceive that as "phew, oomd safed me from having to hard reset my system"
[16:13] <juliank> seb128: they were using 15.95 GB of their RAM and 925 MB of their swap file
[16:13] <juliank> seb128: they were struggling
[16:13] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638792 (test-crossbuild-arm64) stage: test, status: pending
[16:13] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638791 (test-build-all) stage: test, status: pending
[16:13] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638794 (lintian) stage: test, status: pending
[16:14] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638795 (autopkgtest) stage: test, status: pending
[16:14] <juliank> there was 50MB RAM left and 75MB swap when oomd first kicked in in the bug report
[16:14] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638791 (test-build-all) stage: test, status: running. Duration: no time
[16:14] <seb128> juliank, do we have record of those numbers or are you assuming from the logic?
[16:14] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638792 (test-crossbuild-arm64) stage: test, status: running. Duration: no time
[16:14] <juliank> seb128: It says right in the bug log
[16:14] <juliank>  due to memory used<PHONE_NUMBER>8) / total<PHONE_NUMBER>4) and swap used (925564928) / total<PHONE_NUMBER>) being more than 90.00%
[16:14] <juliank>  due to memory used<PHONE_NUMBER>4) / total<PHONE_NUMBER>4) and swap used (927760384) / total<PHONE_NUMBER>) being more than 90.00%
[16:14] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638796 (blhc) stage: test, status: running. Duration: no time
[16:14] <juliank> that was 2nd kill
[16:15] <juliank> something something GB vs GiB
[16:15] <seb128> juliank, and do we have any idea how much page cache is counting for?
[16:15] <KGB-0> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638792 (test-crossbuild-arm64) stage: test, status: failed. Duration: 2 minutes and 3 seconds
[16:16] <juliank> we don't but mine is at 9GB right now after 3 days with 24 GB of RAM
[16:16] <juliank> so you can see it's like half my memory is used for caching purposes
[16:16] <seb128> how do you check that number?
[16:17] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638793 (reprotest) stage: test, status: success. Duration: 3 minutes and 8 seconds
[16:17] <seb128> on my system from top
[16:17] <seb128> MiB Mem :  15695,8 total,   5501,8 libr,   2589,5 util,   7604,5 tamp/cache
[16:17] <seb128> with 6 hours uptime
[16:17] <seb128> if that's those 7.6G that's making quite a difference
[16:17] <seb128> should we retitle the report to focus on that part?
[16:18] <KGB-2> GNOME / xdg-desktop-portal-gnome builds Jeremy Bicha * Build #2638797 (piuparts) stage: test, status: success. Duration: 4 minutes and 19 seconds
[16:18] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 365470 * [8 minutes and 52 seconds] failed (piuparts: success; reprotest: success; test-build-any: success; autopkgtest: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: failed; lintian: failed; test-build-all: success; blhc: success; build: success; build i386: success; build source: success; extract-source: success)
[16:19] <juliank> seb128: check your oomctl what that says on memory use
[16:19] <juliank> so mine says Current Memory Usage: 10.5G
[16:19] <juliank> ah no
[16:19] <juliank> Memory: Used: 21.3G Total: 23.3G
[16:19] <juliank> for MiB Mem :  23937,4 total,   2051,0 free,  12448,1 used,   9438,3 buff/cache
[16:19] <schopin> FYI the free(1) command might be more appropriate to check the state of your memory :)
[16:19] <juliank> schopin: harder to paste though
[16:20] <juliank> so yes, eek, it should report the "used" figure there and not total-free
[16:20] <schopin> hmm, true.
[16:20] <juliank> or used + 0.5 * buff/cache or something
[16:20] <juliank> as you do want to prevent all page cache being purged for memory use, otherwise you enter swap hell?
[16:21] <seb128> schopin, juliank, I would appreciate if foundations could taget it for 22.04 because I feel like we have an issue that might trigger some users heat at release time otherwise
[16:22] <seb128> plan B would be to remove systemd-oomd from the default install again
[16:22] <seb128> @kenvandine, ^ opinion?
[16:22] <juliank> seb128: that'S work for enr0n
[16:23] <juliank> seb128: enr0n: I believe in https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/+source/systemd/tree/src/oom/oomd-util.c?h=ubuntu-jammy&id=771fee9e73316c92e065e93946ec64c578b43706#n406, MemFree needs to be changed to MemAvailable and then we're good
[16:25] <juliank> ddstreet: ^ agreed?
[16:26] <ddstreet> juliank sorry i'm chairing another mtg, hard to pay attention here too
[16:26] <enr0n> juliank: looking
[16:26] <schopin> I'm surprised nobody raised this upstream?!
[16:26] <juliank> probably worth doing so
[16:27] <seb128> schopin, it's probably because other distros that use it have a much higher swap space than us by default
[16:28] <seb128> like fedora apparently creates 16G when we do 1G
[16:28] <seb128> so they probably don't hit the issue as easily
[16:29] <juliank> so long running machines accumulate swap use despite not needing it
[16:30] <juliank> like I had 3 MB of swap used
[16:30] <juliank> because the kernel won't remove the swapped bits if you don#t need them
[16:30] <juliank> seb128: enr0n: I could just send a PR upstream and see what they see
[16:31] <enr0n> juliank: I don't mind doing so since I was supposed to be looking into this. But you did find it so up to you.
[16:32] <juliank> enr0n: ddstreet found it, so I don't need the fame and glory but do CC me if you want to send one
[16:32] <juliank> enr0n: I want to watch :)
[16:33] <juliank> enr0n: I think there are nicer fixes that take some % of the page cache in account, but not sure. Such that we don't need to evict all pages before triggering OOM, which would then lead to the whole swap hell I think
[16:34] <juliank> So technically one would want to parse Buffers and Cached lines, and then add them to the used memory with a factor of 20% or so
[16:34] <juliank> enr0n: It's better if you do it, fwiw, I'd just send it totally untested :)
[16:35] <schopin> juliank: we could just reduce the %age to allow for triggering before all page cache is flushed out.
[16:35] <juliank> that too
[16:35] <juliank> but also maybe 10% is fine
[16:35] <enr0n> juliank: haha alright I will do it in that case
[16:54] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-bluetooth-quick-connect pipeline Simon McVittie 365489 * pending (autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; extract-source: pending; piuparts: created; blhc: created; build: created)
[16:54] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-bluetooth-quick-connect pipeline Simon McVittie 365489 * running (extract-source: running; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; piuparts: created; blhc: created; build: created)
[17:01] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome Sebastien Bacher 303825 * commented merge request !1 * https://deb.li/3C1Mj
[17:03] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-bluetooth-quick-connect pipeline Simon McVittie 365489 * [8 minutes and 16 seconds] success (piuparts: success; autopkgtest: success; reprotest: success; test-build-all: success; lintian: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: success; test-build-any: success; blhc: success; build i386: success; build: success; build source: success; extract-s
[17:03] <KGB-2> shell-extensionsource: success)
[17:04] <ddstreet> juliank enr0n sorry was in another mtg, re: the commit, no you also need to adjust how crgoup 'used' memory is calculated by oomd
[17:05] <ddstreet> since all systemd-controlled processes will be running in a cgroup (as well as other stuff, too)
[17:06] <ddstreet> also, 'swap hell' isn't just as simple as 'lots of swap and not much free memory', you can be in swap hell with very little swap used
[17:06] <ddstreet> if you want to engage upstream to improve oomd it might be worth reviewing how the kernel oom-killer works
[17:06] <ddstreet> since it does the same thing, but maybe less agressively
[17:07] <juliank> ddstreet: I think you misunderstand the purpose of oomd
[17:07] <ddstreet> maybe yeah, what's the purpose?
[17:09] <juliank> ddstreet: I don't think I understand the ins and outs either, but a start would be to read the facebook oomd docs https://github.com/facebookincubator/oomd - which the systemd one is derived from
[17:09] <ddstreet> so neither of us understand the purpose? ;-)
[17:10] <ddstreet> does someone from foundations at least understand its purpose? enr0n or slyon?
[17:10] <ddstreet> or maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean by saying i misunderstand its purpose?
[17:11] <juliank> ddstreet: well the purpose we know is that it kicks in earlier and has better control over what to kill
[17:11] <juliank> ddstreet: like it kills at cgroup level and stuff
[17:11] <juliank> ddstreet: it can be more easily configured
[17:12] <ddstreet> ok, but the kernel oom-killer is configurable and as i said the kernel oom-killer is 'less aggressive' than oomd
[17:12] <ddstreet> if that's all you mean, then im not sure how i don't understand oomd's purpose
[17:12] <juliank> there's more rationale https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableSystemdOomd
[17:12] <ddstreet> also the kernel can oom-kill inside cgroups
[17:12] <juliank> ddstreet: basically people wanted to improve oom, but didn't want to bother working in the kernel
[17:13] <ddstreet> lol
[17:13] <ddstreet> read: systemd didn't want to bother working in the kernel xD
[17:13] <ahasenack> slippery slope
[17:13] <ddstreet> don't get me wrong, i actually like systemd and do quite a lot of work in it
[17:13] <juliank> ddstreet: well, it's facebook's project
[17:13] <juliank> Provide a better experience for Fedora users in out-of-memory (OOM) situations by enabling systemd-oomd by default. Actions taken by systemd-oomd operate on a per-cgroup level, aligning well with the life cycle of systemd units. systemd-oomd primarily uses Linux pressure stall information (PSI) to make decisions based on wasted productivity due to resource shortages; in addition to that, it
[17:13] <juliank> also supports swap based actions.
[17:14] <ddstreet> lol i'm not arguing against using oomd
[17:14] <ahasenack> I wonder if it will ever kill itself :)
[17:14] <ddstreet> rofl
[17:14] <ddstreet> i'd like to see that
[17:14]  * ahasenack thinks of the bridge crossing in Monty Python Holy Grail
[17:14] <ddstreet> what? i don't know that... AAAAAHHHHHH
[17:14] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master 5b8c379 Jeremy Bicha debian/patches/ (5 files) * Add patches to revert using libadwaita * https://deb.li/ix1BF
[17:14] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master 9b9c9dc Jeremy Bicha debian/ control control.in * debian/control.in: Drop libadwaita-1-dev from Build-Depends * https://deb.li/ki4E
[17:15] <juliank> ddstreet: but the design assumed that swap >= ram, which is not what we want as we don't really want systems to use swap in the first place
[17:15] <ddstreet> juliank re: your earlier comment that 1gb swap is intentional, was there discussion on that? it seems like a really bad default to me, honestly
[17:16] <juliank> ddstreet: yes, lots of
[17:16] <juliank> ddstreet: a long time ago
[17:16] <juliank> ddstreet: in 17.04 that was decided
[17:16] <ddstreet> wow
[17:16]  * ahasenack has 8Gb of swap
[17:16] <ddstreet> yeah 1gb swap is basically insane
[17:16] <ddstreet> but...if it's done, then ok
[17:16] <ahasenack> bug the fresh jammy install does have 1Gb of swap
[17:17] <ddstreet> i think a lot of people think *any* swap is bad, unfortunately
[17:17] <ddstreet> swap is greatly misunderstood
[17:17] <juliank> ddstreet: xnox implemented that back then
[17:17] <juliank> ddstreet: neasurements were done
[17:17] <ddstreet> okey dokey :)
[17:18] <juliank> ddstreet: I'm trying to find the details for you
[17:18] <ddstreet> hey, you dont have to convince me (because you wont ;-)
[17:19] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome signed tags 6089537 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/42.0.1-1ubuntu1 * xdg-desktop-portal-gnome Debian release 42.0.1-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/3WCze
[17:19] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master b54bd23 Jeremy Bicha debian/changelog * releasing package xdg-desktop-portal-gnome version 42.0.1-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/e7DI
[17:19] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 365491 * running (extract-source: running; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; piuparts: created; build: created)
[17:20] <juliank> ddstreet: somewhere https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-November/039538.html and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1566129
[17:20] <ddstreet> unfortunately, lots of people think reducing/eliminating swap will 'improve performance', but in reality reducing swap simply reduces the system's memory elasticity
[17:20] <ddstreet> it changes the system's response to (actual) memory pressure from a slope to sharp cliff
[17:20] <juliank> ddstreet: basically I want a sharp cutoff when I have an app with a bug that fast allocates a lot of memory
[17:21] <juliank> ddstreet: rather than dragging this out for hours
[17:21] <juliank> ddstreet: which then usually ends up in a hard reset
[17:21] <juliank> (if you have large swap)
[17:22] <ddstreet> an app with a bug allocating lots of memory (but just the right amount of lots of memory, not too much to get malloc failures) is hardly the common situation that uses swap
[17:22] <ddstreet> anyway, there is obviously no need for us to convince each other
[17:22] <juliank> I don't see it obviously
[17:23] <juliank> Personally I just buy insane amounts of RAM I only use 50% of
[17:23] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 365490 * [8 minutes and 59 seconds] failed (piuparts: success; reprotest: failed; autopkgtest: success; test-build-any: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: failed; lintian: failed; blhc: success; test-build-all: success; build i386: success; build: success; build source: success; extract-source: success)
[17:24] <juliank> When I only had 16GB of RAM I remember having to hard reset stuff because it was swapping forever
[17:24] <juliank> don't judge me I was running Chrome + Android Studio + an Android VM
[17:25] <juliank> At the moment I have 24 GB RAM and 8GB swap, with zswap enabled for lolz
[17:27] <juliank> also it would be nice if it put swap hoggers on slowdown, like chrome slows down JS execution in background tabs and eventaully pauses them entirely
[17:28] <juliank> I guess hogger is not really a word for "someone who hogs"?
[17:28] <juliank> I wonder if the cgroup reports memory used without counting cache
[17:30] <ddstreet> juliank just fyi, zswap can lead to a very, very sharp cliff of swapping once its configured limit is reached...or at least, it used to have that cliff back when i was zswap maintainer
[17:30] <juliank> enr0n: another place https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/src/basic/procfs-util.c#L245
[17:31] <ddstreet> cgroup reports all specific memory use, yes
[17:31] <juliank> ddstreet: do they?
[17:31] <juliank> ddstreet: ah memory.stat
[17:33] <juliank> ddstreet: but also that doesn't make much sense with memory.max and memory.min throttling/not reclaiming flags including page count
[17:33] <juliank> s/page count/page cache/
[17:36] <juliank> ddstreet: so for the cgroup you have to consider page cache (as memory.current), otherwise you end up inconsistent with the limits set via memory.min and memory.max
[17:36] <juliank> whether this all maeks sense or not, idk
[17:37] <juliank> "you program cached too pages, so you get throttled" I feel sounds hilarious
[17:37] <ddstreet> juliank i'd have to review the specifics of the kernel mm/memcontrol, but i think including pagecache in the calculated value (re: max) makes total sense, it means mallocs from that specific cgroup will start evicting pagecache from that specific cgroup under memory pressure
[17:37] <ddstreet> it container-izes memory use, including pagecache, just like un-cgrouped processes are handled for the larger system
[17:38] <ddstreet> and no, programs don't get throttled for too much pagecache, what happens is the pagecache is evicted as needed
[17:39] <juliank> ddstreet: well if the eviction failed, they would as they'd be over their max?
[17:39] <ddstreet> how would pagecache eviction fail?
[17:39] <juliank> ddstreet: I don't know, but like those are unrelated things
[17:39] <ddstreet> lol pagecache eviction doesn't ever fail for 'clean' pagecache pages
[17:40] <ddstreet> if the cgroup has a lot of dirty pagecache, that means they're doing a lot of writes to actual files
[17:40] <ddstreet> so while those are cached for performance, under memory pressure they have to be synced back to disck
[17:40] <ddstreet> disc
[17:40] <juliank> but the problem is if we want the memory pressure of the cgroup we need to use memory.current to stay consistent with the other stuff we read from the kernel
[17:40] <ddstreet> i hate disc/disk :)
[17:41] <ddstreet> of course, you should use the kernel's values of used memory
[17:41] <ddstreet> the point is under memory pressure the kernel will automatically 1) evict clean pagecache and then 2) flush (and evict) dirty pagecache, and then 3) turn to swap
[17:42] <ddstreet> speaking *broadly* of course, the specifics are that it will do a little of all of them all the time
[17:43] <juliank> I guess you want to prevent things from getting to 2
[17:43] <ddstreet> no you really, really don't
[17:43] <ddstreet> i mean sure, if everyone had unlimited budgets for infinite ram
[17:43] <juliank> also you want to kill entire containers if a process in them ooms
[17:44] <ddstreet> that's entirely configurable with the normal kernel oom killer
[17:44] <ddstreet> but again...we don't need to convince each other :)
[17:44] <juliank> earlyoom was easier than oomd
[17:46] <juliank> (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableEarlyoom)
[17:47] <juliank> this used processes, resident memory and "total - avaialble" instead of "total - used"
[19:27] <seb128> jbicha, you might want to try to proposed something similar to https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11615 for gtk-doc
[19:28] <seb128> jbicha, I'm unsure how much that's a request but I saw you edited the bug
[19:28] <jbicha> seb128: I just did :) https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11626
[19:30] <jbicha> I was waiting for Olivier's libreoffice merge proposal to be accepted first since we were editing the same code area & it was easy to copy his work
[20:13] <seb128> jbicha, nice, shotwell upstream is reading launchpad reports still and did https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/shotwell/-/commit/cfd42493
[20:14] <sarnold> cool :D


[00:29] <mup> PR snapcraft#3140 closed: specifications: environment lifecycle <specification> <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3140>
[07:56] <zyga-kaveri> good morning
[07:56] <zyga-kaveri> I will start in some time, just drinking coffee
[10:07] <zyga-kaveri> okay
[10:07] <zyga-kaveri> family heading out
[10:07] <zyga-kaveri> coffee ready
[10:07] <zyga-kaveri> let's code