[00:16] <EdgEy> Hello, can I expect problems if I download a kernel package for Natty and install it on Maverick?
[00:16] <EdgEy> I need 2.6.37 to support my DVB tuner
[00:16] <rww> EdgEy: Possibly. It's completely unsupported.
[00:16] <rww> i.e., if it breaks, #ubuntu (which is where you should be ;) won't help you fix it.
[00:17] <EdgEy> If it breaks I'll just reinstall and make a natty/windows partition, just wondering if there's a decent chance of it working, or if dpkg will just wonder "hey, where's this newer version come from" and break dependencies
[00:18] <EdgEy> I used to install newer packages from debian unstable but never tried a kernel
[00:18] <rww> EdgEy: I've used packages from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ on versions of Ubuntu they're not designed for and had it work, so yes, there's a reasonable chance of it working.
[00:19] <yofel> not really, from all unsupported methods the mainline kernels are the most supported ones (and rww was faster :S)
[00:19] <EdgEy> thanks, well I'll have a go
[00:19] <rww> and yeah, I'd use that mainline link rather than pulling from natty.
[00:20] <EdgEy> Would be that I install ubuntu again and get bought a DVB stick for xmas a month later
[00:20] <EdgEy> heh
[03:46] <Stevezau> can anyone point me to a website that explains how to configure ion2 based system with xorg.conf? Im using 11.04 (i need the latest kernel for drivers) and when running gfx intensive apps like mythtv my org process is going to 90-100% cpu usage.
[04:34] <Ohelig> Question!
[04:34] <Ohelig> so, I just installed 11.04 alpha, knowing it wouldn't be fully supported, but I noticed 2 things immediately. 1: I don't know how to switch from Unity to GNOME, and 2: There is now a "proxy" user on the login screen
[04:36] <Ohelig> :(
[04:47] <geeknik> Good evening. Just did an apt-get upgrade (Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha) and towards the end, I see "start: Job failed to start" right after "Setting up apport (1.17-0ubuntu2) ..." Any ideas? =)
[04:47] <geeknik> I couldn't find anything in /var/log/messages, etc.
[04:47] <KM0201> Ohelig: on the sign in screen, i believe if you click "settings"... it should let you default to Gnome
[04:47]  * KM0201 hates unity
[04:48] <Ohelig> yeah, I was surprised when they listed Unity being an "upgrade"
[04:48] <Ohelig> even more when they made it default
[04:48] <KM0201> same here
[04:48] <KM0201> at least i don't have to install Gnome.. it's there by default.. but unity is a waste of space IMO... only useful on Netbooks... unless their goal is to dump the NBR edition
[04:49] <Ohelig> I don't even use it on my laptop
[04:49] <KM0201> Ohelig: i don't even use it on my netbook
[04:49] <KM0201> i hate that NBR
[04:49] <KM0201> whoever thought that up needs hit w/ a baseball bat
[04:49] <Ohelig> are you implying there is a difference between laptop and netbook
[04:50] <KM0201> Ohelig: of course... my laptop has a 17in screen, my netbook has an 8in
[04:50] <Ohelig> owait
[04:50] <Ohelig> yeah, totally forgot they are
[04:50] <Ohelig> small >_>
[04:51] <KM0201> lol
[04:51] <Ohelig> but did anyone else have the same problem with the proxy user?
[04:52] <Ohelig> >and 2: There is now a "proxy" user on the login screen
[04:52] <Ohelig> it may have something to do with Tor
[04:53] <KM0201> Ohelig: i've not noticed the proxy user.. but i've not messed w/ 11.04 much.. just tossed it in vbox the other day
[04:54] <Ohelig> are bug reports being taken yet?
[05:58] <lolcat> Hello
[05:59] <lolcat> I lost sound today!
[06:23] <Stevezau> " install the linux-generic meta-package"  any idea what this mean?? from ubuntuupdates.org
[06:24] <Stevezau> oh
[06:24] <Stevezau> hmm
[06:24] <Stevezau> wrongchnnel
[11:08] <coz_> good day guys
[11:26] <maxb> Hmm, gnome-panel is crashing whenever I click a launcher
[12:02] <gnomefreak> yay it seems libreoffive hsds depenfd issues :(
[12:07] <Ian_Corne> I seem to only get qwerty at the GDM screen
[12:09] <gnomefreak> dont feel bad i cant use kernels 2.6.37-10 -11 -12
[12:10] <gnomefreak> i get stuck right after plymouth
[12:31] <gnomefreak> anyone using "Desktop Edition" still have the launcher bar on the left hand side of screen, mine is gone
[12:37] <gnomefreak> it seesm "Deskptop Edition" and "Classic Edition" are the same here. there used to be a llauncher panel on left side of screen but it is no longer there. and anyone confirm this
[12:54] <yofel> hm... keyboard-configuration asked me for my keyboard settings -> failed -> asked again -> worked o.O
[12:55] <yofel> why did I get a config dialog in the first place though...
[15:17] <BluesKaj> hey,.. no run command with alt+F2 ..anyone else have this?
[15:18] <BluesKaj> ok nm, solved ...this dumb K tolocks
[15:18] <BluesKaj> KB autolocks
[15:54] <Amaranth> BluesKaj: if you're using unity you don't get alt-f2, that's a gnome-panel thing
[15:56] <BluesKaj> Amaranth, no , I'm using a wireless KB on kde and I'd forgotten the darn thing autolocks
[16:03] <coz_> BluesKaj,  you can install gmrun which will effecively replace gnome-run or compile gnome-run.c  and place it in /usr/bin  and or /usr/share/bin
[16:05] <BluesKaj> coz_, thanks but I have it working
[16:05] <coz_> cool
[16:05] <BluesKaj> and I run kde ....mostly
[16:05] <coz_> :)
[16:27] <anon33_> what's the name of the power control applet? (so that it can be executed from the command line)
[16:29] <anon33_> nevermind - it's 'gnome-power-manager'
[17:41] <AnAnt> Hello, I heard that Unity will be used Natty's desktop edition, is that implemented in alpha1 ?
[17:42] <charlie-tca> AnAnt: yes, but you should use the daily image to install, there are fewer updates then
[17:43] <AnAnt> charlie-tca: I just want to have a look, not to install it. So I think alpha1 should be fine (as long as unity is used there)
[17:48] <AnAnt> charlie-tca: thanks
[19:24] <magicianlord> let us talk of 1104
[19:32] <charlie-tca> magicianlord: at least this is the right channel for 11.04
[19:32] <charlie-tca> magicianlord: Did you have something particular in mind?
[19:54] <smoser> is it known bug or intended behavior that I have to use shift-CapsLk in order to toggle CapLk
[19:54] <smoser> and also that my keyboard indicator light doesn't change
[19:57] <charlie-tca> smoser: don't know. Could be hardware related too. (as specific to that model or manufacturer?)
[19:58] <charlie-tca> We have to wait for someone else to jump in on it...
[19:58] <smoser> i suppose, but thinkpad. common hardware, i think it just started today or yesterday. i suspect something in x along the way. i've not logged out and back in in  a while but have upgraded many times.
[20:00] <Amaranth> smoser: you enabled capslock as your keyboard layout changer
[20:01] <Amaranth> I think it's the default so if you didn't get the debconf screen to set it that would happen
[20:01] <Amaranth> smoser: iirc it's set in /etc/default/keyboard
[20:01] <smoser> i do remember seeing that, but just ignored it, and thoguht it was in an emacs context for some reason.
[20:02] <smoser> what should i dpkg-reconfigure ?
[20:02] <Amaranth> you'll probably have XKBOPTIONS="grp:caps_toggle"
[20:02] <Amaranth> I dunno what package did it, that's the problem
[20:02] <smoser> XKBOPTIONS="grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:scroll"
[20:02] <Amaranth> smoser: yeah, change that to alt_caps_toggle instead of caps_toggle
[20:02] <Amaranth> smoser: then alt-caps will change keyboard layout and caps lock will work like normal again
[20:03] <Amaranth> smoser: It's going to be udev, console-setup, or xorg-xserver you need to reconfigure though
[20:04] <smoser> just tried console-setup
[20:04] <smoser> didn't show up
[20:04] <Amaranth> smoser: the file says X uses it, udev needs to be restarted for it to take effect, and console-setup is mentioned
[20:05] <Amaranth> I know it was the reason my -12 kernel didn't upgrade correctly the first time, that dialog came up after it tried to setup the kernel and update-initramfs failed because /etc/default/keyboard didn't exist
[20:05] <h00k> The keyboard indicator is being silly
[20:07]  * Amaranth digs through logs of updated packages
[20:08] <geser> smoser: could it be the new "keyboard-configuration" (or how the package is named)? I remember about getting asked about a toggle for "national" and "Latin mode"
[20:09] <smoser> grep -r "default/keyboard" /var/lib/dpkg/info shows: keyboard-configuration and console-setup
[20:09] <smoser> keyboard-configuration was scary though... select my keyboard was first prompt, and there wasn't a default.
[20:09] <smoser> so i just canceled
[20:10] <Amaranth> smoser: that's definitely it
[20:10] <smoser> yeah
[20:10] <Amaranth> perhaps it was run at a higher level so it didn't ask so many scary questions
[20:11]  * Amaranth just went through it and guessed Apple Laptop for the keyboard
[20:11] <Amaranth> I fully expect everything to explode next boot
[20:11] <Amaranth> Or before then, control key isn't working anymore...
[20:12] <Amaranth> "This package maintains the keyboard preferences in /etc/default/keyboard"
[20:17] <yofel> does keyboard-configuration somehow changing my preferred keyboard layout from german to us english count as exploding?
[20:17] <yofel> with dpkg-reconfigure I got the layout for KDM fixed, but my ttys are still in US :S
[20:22] <genii-around> yofel: Did you dpkg-reconfigure console-setup    ?
[20:22] <yofel> ah, no, keyboard-configuration, I'll do console-setup next
[20:30] <qzio> anyone but me that have  xserver-xorg-core "have been kept back:" ?
[20:33] <yofel> I had that a while ago, but not now, mirror up to date?
[20:42] <Amaranth> yofel: I think you also need to restart udev to get the changes to keyboard-configuration and console-setup to take effect
[20:42] <yofel> Amaranth: nah, I rebooted - worked :S
[20:42] <yofel> :D
[20:43] <Amaranth> yofel: well, that will certainly restart udev
[21:11] <coz_> well natty installed again...  I am too worried about updating it... does anyone know if the video issue of  booting to  "monitor out of range"  has been fixed?
[21:22] <BluesKaj> coz_, I had a couple of X failures after updates , but managed to use the "repair broken packages" with the recovery kernel mode , at least 3 times now
[21:22] <coz_> BluesKaj,  ah ok
[21:23] <coz_> BluesKaj,  I think i will just wait then...
[21:24] <coz_> BluesKaj,  if it goes as it did last time I cant get to recovery kernel because the system wont boot even to gub menu with the "monitor our of range"  happening :(
[21:24] <coz_> gimp wants to remove ubuntu-desktop?/ that's odd :)
[21:25] <BluesKaj> coz_, which graphics card are you using ?
[21:26] <coz_> BluesKaj,  on this system  a old 7600gt
[21:27] <BluesKaj> coz_, that's exactly what I use on my den-pc  , never got any out of range errors
[21:29] <coz_> BluesKaj,  well whats curious is when that happend  i swapped that card out for an older  6600gt and it booted fine...put the 7600gt back in and got the monitor out of range... the bug has been reported  several times  but  I dont want to go through that again :)
[21:29] <gnomefreak> gnome-shell is broken again :(
[21:30] <genii-around> "out of range" is usually your monitor complaining it can't do the resolution your card is trying
[21:30] <coz_> genii-around,   however the problem is with xserver  video packages  not the monitor
[21:30] <rww> gnomefreak: it's not in natty at all right now, is it? or did they put it back in?
[21:31] <gnomefreak> rww: yes its there
[21:31] <coz_> why gnome-shell over unity?
[21:31] <gnomefreak> gnome-shell: Installed: (none) Candidate: 2.31.5-2ubuntu2
[21:31] <gnomefreak> coz_: unity isnt running here, it keeps timing out
[21:31] <coz_> ah ok
[21:31] <coz_> gnomefreak,  go to classic gnome  maybe?
[21:32] <gnomefreak> i can start it manually but i havent found a nice way to do that
[21:32] <gnomefreak> coz_: im on classic
[21:32] <coz_> gnomefreak,  ah
[21:32] <rww> gnomefreak: odd. LP doesn't think it is.
[21:32] <gnomefreak> i just went with policy
[21:33] <gnomefreak> looks like the testing PPA has it working. ill be back in a bit
[21:35] <gnomefreak> going to start dinner than install it
[21:39] <Guest13757> how to update from unauthaurized sources please
[21:40] <BluesKaj> coz_, what does apt-cache policy nvidia-current , give you ... or can you get to a tty ?
[21:41] <BluesKaj> Guest13757, ppas ?
[21:43] <gnomefreak> "out of range" try dropping to an older kernel, to install from unauthaurized try grabbing the key, but we really discourage people from doing that since it can mess up your system if you are not careful
[21:43] <Guest13757> it asks for untrusted packkages
[21:43]  * gnomefreak kind of back
[21:43] <gnomefreak> grab the key
[21:44] <gnomefreak> keep in mind we do not support using untrusted sources
[21:44] <gnomefreak> untrusted by Ubuntu not by user
[21:45] <BluesKaj> even medibuntu is commented out atm :)
[21:46] <gnomefreak> mediubuntu does not have nattty packages and not sure if they will at this point. repos are open but empty
[21:46] <Guest13757> well i could not figure out what to toggle or to fetch the right key
[21:47] <gnomefreak> than it is a good idea not to use them however:
[21:47] <gnomefreak> gpg --recv 37B19B80 && gpg --export -a 37B19B80 | sudo apt-key add -      replace the #s with the right ones
[21:47] <gnomefreak> and yes use the - at the end
[21:48] <BluesKaj> gnomefreak, yeah I figured as much ..well gotta go ...later gents
[21:50]  * gnomefreak still wondering why libreoffice didnt remove OO.o
[21:52] <gnomefreak> maybe once it is in natty it will remove OO.o
[22:02] <kklimonda> erm, wow
[22:02] <kklimonda> 856.3 MiB +   2.0 MiB = 858.3 MiBfirefox-bin
[22:02] <kklimonda>   1.2 GiB +   3.4 MiB =   1.2 GiBXorg [updated]
[22:03] <gnomefreak> kklimonda: top
[22:04] <kklimonda> 22726 root      20   0 1378m 1.2g 9644 S   13 31.5 197:11.04 Xorg ;)
[22:04] <kklimonda> 24097 kklimond  20   0 1561m 823m  19m S    1 21.1 126:07.23 firefox-bin
[22:04] <gnomefreak> Xorg == evil :)
[22:05] <kklimonda> I'll have to logout soon, just so I can get back some memory
[22:05] <kklimonda> and people are asking me "what are you using 4GB for?"
[22:06] <kklimonda> I just had to close vm because I had only 130MB free..
[22:07]  * gnomefreak dreams of having more than 256mb of memory
[22:07] <gnomefreak> i have to get a new PC soon just not sure if i want an i series or just a dualcore
[22:08] <gnomefreak> not real sure what the i series is
[22:13] <bjsnider> gnomefreak, 99% of the world has more ram than that
[22:13] <gnomefreak> yeah i know :(
[22:15] <bjsnider> the craptop i just ordered for a client has 6GB
[22:16] <bjsnider> gnomefreak, go with the corei
[22:16] <bjsnider> or don't buy it
[22:17] <bjsnider> corei/4gb ram/nvidia graphics. linux will work perfectly
[22:17] <gnomefreak> works for me just i wanted a Dell but all i could find were ATI or Intel video cards
[22:18] <bjsnider> buy an xps
[22:18] <bjsnider> dell xps
[22:18] <gnomefreak> xps as in the $1,000 dollar gaming set up?
[22:19] <gnomefreak> i cant find compiz
[22:20] <bjsnider> people look at high-performance as "gaming". it is not the same thing
[22:20] <bjsnider> high performance means it will last a long time
[22:21] <gnomefreak> true
[22:21] <bjsnider> if you don't have the money that's one thing. settle for intel graphics. otherwise go with the more expensive system
[22:22] <gnomefreak> i have enough i just have to justify it to my wife
[22:22] <bjsnider> it will last 6+ years
[22:22] <bjsnider> good enough?
[22:22] <KM0201> soem of those system76 systems are pretty impressive
[22:22] <gnomefreak> oh yeah
[22:23] <KM0201> i thnk so.
[22:23] <KM0201> especially if you have no interest in windows
[22:24] <gnomefreak> who can tell me where compiz is located in gnome-shell
[22:24] <BUGabundo> yoooo
[22:25] <bjsnider> compiz and gnome-shell are mutually exclusive
[22:26] <gnomefreak> so im running it already?
[22:30] <bjsnider> if you're running gnome-shell you can't run compiz, and vice versa
[22:30] <gnomefreak> oh
[22:30] <gnomefreak> damn
[22:31] <gnomefreak> oh well works for me until i get unity working again
[22:33] <gnomefreak> i love the menu in gnome-shell i just wish they would list things only once. i have 6 shotwell icons in the menu. i dont use shotwell
[22:36] <nit-wit> anybody have problems with todays updates from the US servers?
[22:36] <nit-wit> *having
[22:37] <gnomefreak> nit-wit: i have always found US servers to be garbage. i use gb and i have very little problems with them
[22:39] <gnomefreak> be back i have to find my panels, they just went poof!!!
[22:39] <nit-wit> gnomefreak, not the servers them selves, but the actual updates causing problems. I saw a thread on the UF about a problem no restart, a black scree. No big deal really just curious.
[22:39] <nit-wit> *screen
[22:41] <gnomefreak> nto sure how that relates to servers/repos other than maybe missing updates. be back i have to fix this panel issue
[22:59] <charlie-tca> Had to run updates twice today. the first time the -12 kernel failed to completely install
[22:59] <BUGabundo> fine here
[23:03] <yofel> fooey, grub broke apart on my dmraid :S
[23:03] <yofel> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/disk/by-uuid/9c833d6f-4685-4a19-ad27-fa60a77a4054.  Check your device.map.
[23:03] <yofel> there is no device.map though
[23:03] <nit-wit> charlie-tca, I have'nt seen the -12 kernel yet.
[23:05] <yofel> really? I got -12 yesterday
[23:07] <nit-wit> yofel, whats is the server you have set in software sources?
[23:07] <yofel> de.archive.ubuntu.com
[23:08] <nit-wit> yofel, thanks.:)
[23:08] <nit-wit> It isn't any fun till you break it .
[23:09] <BUGabundo> yo nit-wit.
[23:09] <BUGabundo> how are you today?
[23:09] <nit-wit> BUGabundo, howdeee
[23:10] <nit-wit> BUGabundo, good just trying to keep up with my new classes in college
[23:10] <BUGabundo> good for you
[23:11] <BUGabundo> oops nit-wit ^^^^
[23:13] <yofel> fhew, good that I still had the old grub-pc in my apt cache
[23:18] <charlie-tca> nit-wit: you need to update
[23:22] <nit-wit> charlie-tca, I did from the main servers I have all the repos open.
[23:23] <nit-wit> charlie-tca, changed servers though for a test trying again as of now
[23:24] <nit-wit> charlie-tca, I added the gnome 3 stack the ppa I wonder if that is blocking -12
[23:38] <Roey> hi
[23:38] <Roey> OK, so there is this bug that's been consistent for me throughout 4.6b1, b2, rc1 and now rc2:  my Keyboard Settings do not seem to be respected, even though they'
[23:39] <Roey> even though they're configured as I specified in Keyboard Settings
[23:39] <Roey> I have isolated it to this machine (the problem exists for all user accounts on it)
[23:59] <hggdh> IDK if already reported -- but the newest bcmwl-kernel-source (<IP_ADDRESS>+bdcom-0ubuntu1) fails to build the DKMS modules
[23:59]  * hggdh is trying to report the bug, but is being held by LP


[08:41] <doko> coreycb: yes, but the MIRs for the other two packages are missing
[08:48] <doko> Laney, seb128: update-notifier now depends on sugar, pulling in Python2 to main again
[08:48] <doko> I didn't track what changed
[08:56] <seb128> doko, is that because notification-daemon got deleted on i386 and it's finding it as an alternative stll existing?
[08:57] <seb128> doko, can we remove update-notifier/i386?
[09:10] <doko> seb128: I'm not familar with the i386 removals, or is this somewhere documented?
[09:11] <seb128> doko, I will check with Steve if there is a reason update-notifier wasn't removed (yet)
[09:11] <seb128> but my guess is that i386 is the issue there
[09:14] <seb128> tjaalton, hey, happy monday. Did you&vorlon reach an agreement on what to do with xorg-server/i386? it's still showing on the proposed migration blockeds items
[09:15] <Laney> seb128: doko: it looks like there's a chain from flashplugin-downloader
[09:16] <seb128> Laney, can't we delete that as well?
[09:16] <Laney> that is in the seed
[09:16] <Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/i386.focal/all
[09:16] <seb128> ah
[09:16] <seb128> but I meant on i386
[09:16] <seb128> ignore that
[09:19] <tjaalton> seb128: yes, libdmx & libxres is needed on i386
[09:20] <tjaalton> didn't happen yet though
[09:20] <seb128> tjaalton, so what needs to happen? restoring back of libdmx1?
[09:20] <tjaalton> too many packages build-depend on xvfb, and i386 builds can't use nocheck
[09:21] <tjaalton> restoring them, yes
[09:21] <seb128> thx
[10:16] <Laney> seb128: just looked at update-notifier, those deps already have <!s390x> so perhaps we could add i386 to that
[10:18] <rbasak> Subject:  Your December issue of Packaging Technology Today has arrived!
[10:18] <rbasak> o_O
[10:27] <seb128> Laney, right, if we keep the i386 binaries I guess that makes sense
[10:34] <Laney> k, feel free to pursue any other option if you like it more
[10:37] <xnox> rbasak:  "dear editor, my name is robbie and carboard boxes and a bit of wrapping paper do not make a great .deb package!!! I know better!"
[10:38] <rbasak> "What you need are Santa's little debhelpers!"
[13:10] <coreycb> doko: I've updated the MIR bug for the other packages
[14:19] <cpaelzer> thanks coreycb I was taking a look ath these MIRs but really it comes down to ask doko if this really becomes obsolte when python3.8 becomes the default
[14:19] <cpaelzer> doko: how willt hat work in python then?
[14:19] <cpaelzer> will src:python-importlib-metadata be removed and src:python3.8 starts to build that binary?
[14:20] <cpaelzer> even if that would be the case the same isn't true for zipp and itertools
[14:20] <cpaelzer> so will then python3.8 grow these dependencies?
[14:21] <cpaelzer> I'm wondering because I'd want to avoid doing a review and pushign it onto securities queue (which might take until 3.8 is the default) - to then throw away that work
[14:21] <doko> cpaelzer: no, my understand is that those will only be needed for Python2
[14:21] <doko> ding ...
[14:21] <cpaelzer> doko: but there is a "python3-importlib-metadata"
[14:22] <cpaelzer> would that grow a conflicts with python3.8 then?
[14:24] <cpaelzer> doko: I don't see it in libpython3.8-stdlib - is that were it would end up?
[14:25] <doko> cpaelzer: that's a backport to 3.7, not needed for 3.8 (hopefully)
[14:25] <cpaelzer> so the src:python-importlib-metadata would drop python3-importlib-metadata then
[14:25] <cpaelzer> because python3.8 libpython3.8-stdlib would contian it then?
[14:25] <doko> that's what I remember when looking at this, yes
[14:26] <cpaelzer> ok, so will then libpython3.8-stdlib get the dependency to e.g. python3-zipp that today is in python3-importlib-metadata?
[14:26] <doko> no
[14:26] <cpaelzer> or will all of that go into python3.8 stdlib?
[14:27] <cpaelzer> libpython3.8-minimal:amd64: /usr/lib/python3.8/importlib/metadata.py
[14:27] <cpaelzer> ok at least I found it within python3.8 now
[14:27] <cpaelzer> coreycb: ^^
[14:29] <cpaelzer> ok, so when python3.8 is the default kombu can drop the dependency to python3-importlib-metadata as it will be fulfilled with libpython3.8-minimal
[14:30] <cpaelzer> coreycb: even if I push through the MIR reviews from my quick view two will also need security review
[14:30] <cpaelzer> that will probably take until the same time that we need to see python3.8 as the default
[14:30] <cpaelzer> coreycb: so could we instead of pushing all these MIRs forward wait for 3.8 and then do this change in kombu?
[14:31] <doko> or we document that in the bug report, and only revisit that when we can't switch to 3.8, and pre-promote now
[14:31] <cpaelzer> doko: ^^ would that work in your opinion?
[14:31] <cpaelzer> doko: yeah that might be the best of both worlds
[14:31] <cpaelzer> getting things unblocked for now
[14:31] <doko> could you document that in the bug report?
[14:31] <cpaelzer> yes, but I'd at least want openstack to subscribe (for the interim time) to also feel responsible to get rid of it then ... :-)
[14:32] <cpaelzer> I'll ask james about the subscription and would document that in the bug then
[14:38] <doko> ok
[14:44] <coreycb> doko: cpaelzer: thanks sounds good
[14:57] <cpaelzer> doko: documented in 1851393 - could you do the interim pre-promotion?
[15:00] <cpaelzer> coreycb: ^^ FYI
[15:01] <rbasak> !dmb-ping
[15:45] <tomreyn> would it be ok to flag bugs which seem important enough to the general user base that they should be fixed for FF as "rls-ff-incoming"?
[15:46] <tomreyn> i'm just looking at bug 1466150 specifically
[15:48] <juliank> tomreyn: we already know about that one
[15:48] <juliank> you can see it's got an id- tag, so it kind of skipped rls-ff-incoming
[15:50] <tomreyn> juliank: yes i noticed it has an id assigned since 2018, it just looks like it might have been forgotten about, and i can never tell whether or not that's the case, or whether it's assigned to a (now) ex employee etc.
[15:50] <juliank> Well, it seems it was marked as done
[15:51] <tomreyn> maybe it is, and the bug report hasn't been updated. i have not tested it on anything recent.
[15:51] <tomreyn> marked as done internally, right?
[15:52] <juliank> xnox, cyphermox what's up wit hthat bug?
[15:53] <cyphermox> eep
[15:53] <juliank> I remember something about ESP on raid, but I don't know where
[15:53] <cyphermox> well, that might be perilous
[15:54] <juliank> Ah I think what I remembered was bugs about raid1 support in subiquity because I played with that
[15:54] <tomreyn> i think i also have a bug open about esp on raid against subiquity or curtin.
[15:55] <juliank> AFAIUI you cannot put ESP on RAID
[15:55] <juliank> which the last comment suggested :D
[15:55] <cyphermox> juliank: you certain could put ESP on RAID
[15:55] <cyphermox> the issue is what happens if your firmware decides it needs to write to it
[15:55] <juliank> cyphermox: I mean you could, but the firmware's allowed to write to it :D
[15:55] <juliank> yeah
[15:56] <juliank> I remember years ago when people asked me to implement this back when I maintained gummiboot in Debian
[15:57] <tomreyn> the clean solution is to have grub quit with an error of "it's not safe to write esp on raid", and have installers understand how to deal with this. the user friendly solution is to enable grub to install on mdadm raid-1 partitions with <=1.0 metadata, issuing a warning, and have installers handle this gracefully.
[15:57] <juliank> In any case, the bug got fairly confused
[15:58] <juliank> I think the correct solution would be to have it mount multiple ESPs and update them all
[15:58] <juliank> but I don't really know
[15:58] <juliank> "I'm having the same problem with a new Gentoo install, but with a twist."
[15:58] <juliank> wow, how's that relevant in an ubuntu bug?
[15:59] <tomreyn> it's not, also not a configuration that could work.
[15:59] <juliank> huh?
[15:59] <juliank> You partition each disk into two partitions
[15:59] <juliank> you raid the big one, and the small ones become ESPs
[16:00] <tomreyn> the gentoo person has lvm's raid supnm across two physical disks
[16:00] <tomreyn> s/supnm/spun/
[16:00] <tomreyn> and an esp LV on top
[16:00] <juliank> I do think the importance is weird, it should be wishlist
[16:01] <tomreyn> grub fails to handle it at all currentl,y that's abug IMO
[16:01] <juliank> IMO, it's about adding a feature to support updating multiple ESPs
[16:02] <tomreyn> enabling installation of esp on top of mdadm raid-1 is a feature request IMO, as would be grub supporting updating multiple ESPs.
[16:02] <juliank> I mean sure there could be a nice error message, but that does not help anyone, just breaks your upgrades
[16:02] <juliank> Right, but I don't think ESP on raid1 is something that should be supported, as it's not safe
[16:02] <tomreyn> the latter is non tricvial. you'd not just need to update multiple ESPs, but also manage multiple boot records in nvram
[16:04] <tomreyn> i like good error messages, since they tell me what i did wrong (or some software did wrong).
[16:04] <juliank> Sure
[16:04] <juliank> But it doesn't work
[16:05] <juliank> If you error out in grub update, you break the package management
[16:05] <tomreyn> i agree, it won't help those who already have such a setup
[16:05] <tomreyn> or are trying to install to it
[16:06] <juliank> But it takes a lot of effort to create a setup like that
[16:06] <juliank> it's not something you can do easily in a straightforward way with the installer
[16:08] <tomreyn> btw the subiquity bug report i recalled about is bug 1817066 (and its not mine)
[16:09] <tomreyn> so that's basically about what you had on your mind
[16:21] <juliank> ah yes
[16:21] <juliank> tomreyn: that's what I remember
[17:05] <CarlFK> how can I grab the text of an installer error from the text based installer?  this one:  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/eoan/main/installer-amd64/current/images/hd-media/boot.img.gz
[17:05] <juliank> CarlFK: Go to other tty and look at log?
[17:06] <juliank> CarlFK: please be aware that we're migrating away from d-i
[17:06] <juliank> or well, discontinuing it
[17:07] <juliank> starting with focal
[17:07] <CarlFK> oh my
[17:07] <CarlFK> will there be support for preeseed install ?
[17:08] <juliank> CarlFK: automated server installs are on the roadmap https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/AutomatedServerInstalls
[17:09] <juliank> ubiquity, the desktop installer, I think does support preseeding to some extend, as it embeds parts of d-i
[17:14] <CarlFK> has anyone made a d-i preseed file to yml converter?
[17:15] <juliank> I don't think so, I'm not sure that would even work reasonably
[17:17] <CarlFK> hmm.. someone would need to maintain a map to translate keys and ... structure?  something.  seems like too much work.
[17:20] <CarlFK> is there any hint that Debian will do this too?
[18:04] <tomreyn> juliank: thanks for taking the time to discuss, i posted what i think we concluded (and more) to bug 1817068
[21:03] <juliank> seb128: fyi: poppler should be fixed now in focal-proposed and eoan unapproved queue
[21:03] <seb128> juliank, great, thanks!
[21:03] <juliank> sorry for breaking it!
[22:46] <mwhudson> CarlFK: hi, i have no plans for a preseed -> yaml converter but maybe we could do something for simple cases
[22:46] <mwhudson> CarlFK: do you have an example of what you are using?
[22:51] <CarlFK> mwhudson: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-video-team/ansible/blob/master/roles/tftp-server/files/d-i/xenial/preseed.cfg
[22:52] <CarlFK> mwhudson: I'm skeptical it is worth the effort just for this case
[22:53] <mwhudson> CarlFK: it's still interesting to see what people do
[22:54] <mwhudson> CarlFK: i think most of this preseed can be replaced with an empty file :)
[22:54] <mwhudson> d-i apt-setup/enable-source-repositories boolean true <- don't have a canned equivalent to that
[22:54] <CarlFK> mwhudson: I was thinking the yml might be pretty simple
[22:54] <mwhudson> CarlFK: certainly hope so
[22:56] <CarlFK> and it doesn't have to be exactly the same.  historically we had apps that installed cleanly on ubuntu but not debian, so some of us (me) would use ubuntu, but others would work out all the patches and what not to make things run on debian stable
[22:57] <CarlFK> now things are much better supported on both, so I look to ubuntu for hardware drivers that are harder to get onto a debian box
[22:58] <CarlFK> it would be great if the kernel arg shortcuts were supported
[22:59] <CarlFK> hmm, I have:  debconf/priority=high auto=true netcfg/dhcp_timeout=60 fb=false  hostname?=bare hw-detect/load_firmware=false
[22:59] <CarlFK> wait.. thats not normal.  whoops.
[23:00] <CarlFK> debconf/priority=high auto=true netcfg/dhcp_timeout=60 fb=false  hostname?=bare url=pc8.home hw-detect/load_firmware=false
[23:12] <mwhudson> CarlFK: you mean being able to override particular settings on the kernel command line?
[23:13] <CarlFK> mwhudson: mostly the ones that need to happen in order to get to the preseed file, like network and url=
[23:15] <CarlFK> mwhudson: if you want to dig into this and wonder where to start: https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/wiki/System-Stack#what-to-do-first
[23:16] <CarlFK> there is also PXE but that's more work so not a great "start here"
[23:16] <CarlFK> https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/ansible/usb_install/usb_or_pxe.html