[09:14] <Burgundavia> nanotech: Overall, I would go with LPI lvl 1. The best, most vendor neutral and up to date bang for your buck
[09:15] <nanotech> i will
[09:15] <iLLf8d> thanks ppls =)
[09:15] <Tyche> hello
[09:15] <nanotech> but i'd like more at least 2
[09:15] <Burgundavia> In addition, you can suggest questions to LPI, as they are a non-profit, and decidely interested in user input
[09:15] <Tyche> Hello
[09:15] <iLLf8d> how goes it this evening btw?
[09:16] <nanotech> what are your opinions on linux+
[09:16] <nanotech> ?
[09:16] <Tyche> Can I su - root from my username on Ubuntu?
[09:16] <Burgundavia> I am about to write Linux+, as my employer is paying for it
[09:16] <Treenaks> Tyche: you can use sudo
[09:16] <nanotech> you can "run as"
[09:16] <nanotech> yeah
[09:16] <nanotech> use sudo
[09:16] <Treenaks> Tyche: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[09:16] <Treenaks> Tyche: it has an explanation of all possibilities
[09:16] <Burgundavia> nanotech: otherwise I would have concentrated on LPI
[09:17] <Tyche> Treenaks: Thanks
[09:17] <nanotech> wow.
[09:17] <nanotech> well, i'm definatly looking into these
[09:17] <nanotech> thanks
[09:17] <Burgundavia> np
[09:18] <Tyche> I have one other question on Apache/PHP
[09:18] <nanotech> i'm checking out the site's hompages's and will hopefully runinto study guides and other materials to get on my way
[09:18] <Tyche> When I goto localhost or type in the IP address I can see my phpinfo();
[09:19] <Tyche> But, when I goto the IP address from another computer on the network, I have to actually type the IP address/index.php (index.php has my phpinfo(); )
[09:21] <Tyche> Any ideas on that anyone?
[09:22] <nanotech> what's the problem, it seems that this is suposed to happen...
[09:23] <nanotech> if you're on the local box, shouldn't the local ip addy be implicit?
[09:32] <iLLf8d> heh
[10:15] <schwuk> How do I get my hostname to register with my dns server via dhcp?
[10:16] <schwuk> I've edited /etc/network/interfaces to add "hostname foo" to the dhcp section, but no joy
[10:40] <Kamion> ogra: yes?
[10:43] <pepsi> eh
[10:48] <wood1> Is there any alternatives for PcAnyWhere in Ubuntu ?
[10:48] <wood1> Is there any alternatives for PcAnyWhere in Ubuntu ?
[10:48] <Treenaks> wood1: there's a remote desktop server installed by default
[10:48] <Treenaks> wood1: please ask questions only once, too :)
[10:48] <Treenaks> wood1: you can configure it/turn it on in the Computer -> Desktop settings -> Remote Desktop menu
[10:49] <Treenaks> wood1: and you can also connect to other remote desktops using the program in the Applications menu
[10:49] <wfx> and or add any link to see what pcanywhere is
[10:50] <Treenaks> wfx: pcanywhere is a remote desktop thingy, afaik
[10:50] <wfx> Treenaks, like vnc, yes?
[10:51] <Treenaks> I think so.. google for it.. it should give you more details
[10:51] <wfx> :)
[10:53] <mos__> is there an alternative for mplayer in ubuntu? i cant find it in the repos
[10:53] <Treenaks> mos__: there's the default movie player in the menu
[10:53] <mos__> ty
[10:53] <Treenaks> mos__: it can play anything mplayer can play, if you want
[10:53] <mos__> i see
[10:53] <Treenaks> mos__: read http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats -- it has a howto on how to make that work
[10:56] <wfx> bonobo, dvd
[10:56] <bonobo> to view dvd's read this -> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[10:57] <Treenaks> wfx: bonobo is T3h Bot?
[10:58] <wfx> Treenaks, i have add it for the faq here :-)
[10:58] <Treenaks> Goodness!
[10:58] <wfx> so it is not allways active (if my isp cut my conecction)
[10:59] <wfx> oh it need som teaching but it works :-)
[10:59] <wfx> the same yes :-)
[10:59] <wfx> skyrider, yes it runs here
[11:00] <wfx> skyrider, you can also ask me!
[11:00] <Treenaks> wfx, dvd
[11:00] <Treenaks> :P
[11:00] <Falstius> even on my gentoo system I can't get xine to play everything mplayer plays.  .mkv and .ogm files are just barfed on.
[11:00] <wfx> bonobo, dvd
[11:00] <bonobo> to view dvd's read this -> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[11:00] <Treenaks> Falstius: ogm files work fine in totem
[11:00] <skyrider> wfx: :)
[11:01] <skyrider> bonobo: mp3
[11:01] <bonobo> for mp3 music read -> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[11:01] <skyrider> cool toy ;)
[11:01] <Treenaks> bonobo: sudo
[11:01] <bonobo> Treenaks: Error: 'sudo' is not a valid command.
[11:01] <skyrider> bonobo: sex
[11:01] <bonobo> skyrider: Error: 'sex' is not a valid command.
[11:01] <Treenaks> wfx: how do we teach it?
[11:01] <daniels> (please don't abuse the bot)
[11:02] <Treenaks> sudo/root stuff is explained on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[11:02] <Falstius> Treenaks, you're right it is just mkv
[11:02] <topyli> does the bot have a help command?
[11:02] <Falstius> hadn't played with it for awhile and forgot :)
[11:02] <wfx> http://supybot.sourceforge.net/docs/commands.html
[11:02] <wfx> btw
[11:02] <wfx> bonobo, sex
[11:02] <bonobo> im in love with ubuntu
[11:02] <topyli> wfx: ok thanks
[11:03] <mos__> yeah ubuntu is now my favorite distro
[11:04] <wfx> bonobo, root
[11:04] <bonobo> sudo/root stuff is explained on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[11:04] <Treenaks> I wouldn't say "stuff" :)
[11:04] <wfx> :)
[11:04] <Treenaks> I'd say "The reason ubuntu uses sudo instead of a root account is explained on <url>"
[11:05] <wfx> done
[11:06] <Treenaks> bonobo, sudo
[11:06] <bonobo> sudo/root The reason ubuntu uses sudo instead of a root account is explained on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[11:10] <wfx> bonobo, wfx
[11:10] <bonobo> hmmm, teg.sf.net , http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=17776 , and somthing else ;-)
[11:10] <wfx> ;-)
[11:16] <mos__> hmmm can someone explain to me what the ubuntu-desktop package is and why xine would need to remove it?
[11:17] <wfx> this packae is to install the main desktop, and i think you dont need it later :-)
[11:17] <topyli> ubuntu-desktop depends on all the default desktop packages. you can remove it
[11:17] <Kamion> however, note that this may mean that later upgrades aren't as smooth as they might otherwise be
[11:18] <mos__> hmm ok so its nothing that important
[11:18] <wfx> add to bonobo but aks him with ubuntudesktop
[11:19] <wfx> ask
[11:19] <mos__> pardon?
[11:20] <Kamion> let's not (a) overuse the bot, (b) make cryptic references to the bot to newbies that only confuse them, which seems to defeat the point
[11:20] <wfx> hmmm ok
[11:20] <stvn_> sounds sensible
[11:20] <calc> heh
[11:21] <wfx> and it also not one of the faq :-)
[11:21] <Adrenal> whats the address i add to synaptic to get mplayer and access to mp3s and such
[11:22] <mos__> heh
[11:22] <mos__> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[11:22] <wfx> bonobo, mp3
[11:22] <bonobo> for mp3 music read -> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[11:22] <Adrenal> i mean to add them to xmms
[11:23] <Adrenal> ah got it
[11:23] <Adrenal> cheerio
[11:24] <mos__> gotta say this is one of the most noob friendly linux chans ive ever been in
[11:25] <Hikaru79> =)
[11:28] <wfx> What you are think should i shutdown the bot or think you it is a good thing?
[11:32] <Caesar> Hi, are there any known issues with the Warty Live CD and orinoco based wireless PCMCIA cards?
[11:32] <Treenaks> Caesar: what kind of problem are you having, exactly?
[11:33] <Caesar> It won't associate.
[11:33] <Treenaks> that's weird
[11:33] <Treenaks> haven't heard that problem
[11:33] <Caesar> Rather. I'm using it on a laptop that's just had a disk fail. Previously it was running sarge with a 2.6.8 kernel and it worked fine.
[11:34] <seb128> bonobo, java
[11:34] <bonobo> read the very good java wiki -> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[11:35] <wfx> i folow it and have it running :)
[11:35] <seb128> he he
[11:36] <Elwood> in order to post doc on the wiki it's better to translate in xml?
[11:36] <amu> Caesar: the card isnt detected at all ? what happen if you run iwconfig ?
[11:38] <Kamion> Elwood: some of the wiki guys seem to like ReStructuredText, but you can pick whatever supported format you like
[11:38] <Elwood> ok
[11:38] <Elwood> thanks kalle_
[11:38] <Elwood> thanks Kamion
[11:42] <izmaelis> hello, everyone!
[11:42] <izmaelis> is there anybody from SanFransisco, CA?
[11:49] <wfx> must go to work, cu
[11:51] <mjr> *3*11
[11:52] <Treenaks> mjr: uh.. this is not your phone ;)
[11:58] <mjr> actually, this is my phone :)
[11:59] <Treenaks> mjr: wrong window then ;)
[11:59] <mjr> Nah, just a braino
[12:00] <mjr> * is the cmdchar
[12:02] <Adrenal> how do i get mplayer?
[12:02] <Treenaks> bonobo: dvd
[12:02] <bonobo> to view dvd's read this -> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[12:02] <Treenaks> bonobo: mplayer
[12:02] <bonobo> Treenaks: Error: 'mplayer' is not a valid command.
[12:02] <Treenaks> Adrenal: it's on the same page as the DVD stuff
[12:03] <Adrenal> ah, stackenblocken
[12:03] <Adrenal> everybody have a good one
[12:20] <nion> hi
[12:21] <Quazion> how do i edit the menu ?
[12:21] <Treenaks> Quazion: right-click in it
[12:22] <Quazion> hmm and then read help ? ;-)
[12:22] <Treenaks> hm maybe :)
[12:22] <seb128> nautilus -> applications:///
[12:22] <Treenaks> seb128: ah!
[12:22] <Quazion> oke thanks
[12:22] <Quazion> thats it
[12:24] <Quazion> oke that doesnt work as a user ;-)
[12:24] <Quazion> i try to add something, but it doesnt give an error
[12:24] <Quazion> and doesnt show anyhting
[12:25] <seb128> not even in nautilus ?
[12:26] <seb128> perhaps you need to restart the panel (killall gnome-panel)
[12:26] <Quazion> that worked
[12:38] <im_ka> hi
[12:38] <im_ka> is any1 using webmin-shorewall?
[12:38] <im_ka> how do acces shorewall through webmin?
[12:45] <im_ka> is any1 using webmin-shorewall?
[12:45] <im_ka> how do i acces shorewall through webmin?
[12:46] <b_e_n_z> im_ka, i use vi with shorewall
[12:46] <Falstius> anyway to remove channel messages in IRC on gAim?  Stuff like "blah blah has entered the room"
[12:47] <cardador> for those who may be interested, counter strike source runs quite well in Ubuntu.
[12:47] <im_ka> b_e_n_z i wanna share my ubuntu box's internet connection with my laptop. what's the simplest way to do it? never used shorewall, i thought webmin would be a good start
[12:48] <b_e_n_z> im_ka, go to /etc/shorewall... you only need to edit a few files
[12:49] <b_e_n_z> im_ka, http://www.shorewall.net for good docs
[12:51] <Falstius> im_ka, firestarter makes it easy to do
[12:52] <Falstius> I don't know if it is in the ubuntu universe though.
[12:52] <im_ka> Falstius i have firestarter but i didn't know i can use it for sharing internet connection
[12:52] <Falstius> if check the NAT howto from the linux documentation project.  Thats how I do it.
[12:52] <Falstius> im_ka, you need to enable NAT
[12:53] <Falstius> edit -> preferences -> connection sharing.
[12:54] <fissy> cardador, how?
[12:54] <im_ka> Falstius you're my helper :)
[12:55] <cardador> fissy: if you have cs source and cedega, its very easy.
[12:55] <fissy> i got a black screen when i tried and could only kill X to get out of it
[12:56] <fissy> is there a guide somewhere?
[12:56] <cardador> fissy: i made a post in a forum, ill put here the url
[12:56] <im_ka> i'm still in need of some help though... my internet connection is coming to my ubuntu box on "eth0" the laptop is plugged into "eth1"... so i should set nat to eth1?
[12:57] <Falstius> you set "set my internal device"?  That should be eth1
[12:57] <cardador> fissy: read the last post http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1077&forum=13
[12:59] <fissy> cool, many thanks
[12:59] <cardador> fissy: make me know if it works for you ;)
[12:59] <fissy> :)
[12:59] <im_ka> Falstius yea thanks. plus i need to add the laptop's ip to the trusted ones, right?
[01:01] <Falstius> I don't know.  I don't think so.  You should be able to run your laptop as dhcp
[01:01] <Falstius> hmm, maybe not.  Well either way, give it a try and then you'll know :)
[01:01] <aaroncuk> hi guys
[01:01] <im_ka> i must confess i don't yet have the laptop, i'm just gathering info
[01:01] <aaroncuk> can someone explain how to install mpd as a service on ubuntu
[01:02] <im_ka> thanks a lot Falstius that was great help. don't really feel like manually setting shorewall
[01:14] <wfx> Falstius, you are here?
[01:17] <wfx> hmmm no answer?
[01:22] <wfx> time to go, have alot of fun
[01:54] <the_one> hi
[01:55] <the_one> what am I doing wrong in my fstab, i can't mount my ntfs partitions, here's the line: /dev/hda5       /mnt/STORAGE    ntfs    ro,user,auto    0       0
[01:56] <the_one> anybody?
[01:56] <Treenaks> the_one: what's the error message
[01:56] <opi> the_one: maybe something is using it atm?
[01:56] <the_one> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda,
[01:56] <the_one>        or too many mounted file systems
[01:57] <Treenaks> /dev/sda? is there another entry for /mnt/STORAGE in fstab?
[01:57] <opi> there is no partition there, or FS is bad
[01:57] <the_one> oh, sorry...I meant..
[01:57] <the_one> /dev/sda        /media/CASIO    ntfs    ro,user,auto    0       0
[01:57] <opi> no partition?
[01:57] <opi> cfdisk /dev/sda
[01:57] <Treenaks> the_one: you probably need /dev/sda1 (or sda2, or sda3, etc.)
[01:58] <the_one> it's a digital camera acting as storage
[01:58] <Treenaks> the_one: sure that it isn't FAT? most cams have FAT
[01:58] <the_one> wait...the digital cameras are formated in fat?
[01:58] <opi> still, you need number after device
[01:58] <opi> they are
[01:58] <the_one> ok, my mistake
[01:58] <opi> try vfat and sda1 or something
[01:58] <Treenaks> the_one: is it hot-pluggable?
[01:58] <Treenaks> the_one: (usb / firewire) ?
[01:59] <the_one> usb
[01:59] <Treenaks> then it should mount automatically when you plug it in
[01:59] <Treenaks> and appear on the desktop
[01:59] <the_one> but it's always plugged
[01:59] <opi> type df -h
[01:59] <Treenaks> the_one: then it should always appear
[01:59] <opi> and look for it
[02:00] <the_one> I remember there was a umask=something setting in my previous ubuntu installation for ntfs partitions, do I need it or is it ok as I wrote it?
[02:00] <opi> you can use umask=000
[02:01] <opi> everything for everyone ;)
[02:01] <dreamcatcher> what's the deal with x.org? does it have anything cool and fancy other than the composite extension?
[02:01] <mjr> well, newer drivers that don't flicker on my hardware when playing nwn ;)
[02:01] <opi> dreamcatcher: XF was to conservative more few people
[02:02] <opi> dreamcatcher: as patches was not accpeted
[02:02] <opi> dreamcatcher: so most new stuff is in xorg
[02:02] <the_one> what does umask=000 stand for? I looked for an explanation of fstab on google, but there was nothing on it
[02:02] <dreamcatcher> no big news for older hardware then?
[02:02] <Treenaks> opi: NEVER do that.. always use 022 or something
[02:02] <Treenaks> the_one: use man fstab it explains it
[02:03] <opi> Treenaks: oh, why? I use it for my ,,protable'' disk
[02:03] <opi> Treenaks: you afraid of +x?
[02:03] <the_one> treenaks:thanks
[02:05] <Treenaks> opi: not afraid of +x, but afraid of multi-user systems.. never let other people write to your files
[02:05] <opi> Treenaks: it's my own box
[02:05] <opi> Treenaks: I wouldn't do it, if I was to share it, trust me :)
[02:06] <Treenaks> opi: other people might not know :)
[02:06] <opi> well, ok
[02:07] <opi> sorry for confusing people then
[02:07] <opi> use 022 :)
[02:07] <the_one> what is the correct setting for the fat filesystem, vfat or msdos?
[02:07] <opi> or, -o uid=1000,gid=1000
[02:07] <opi> the_one: vfat
[02:08] <the_one> when mounting /dev/sda        /media/CASIO    vfat    rw,user,auto    0       0 with sudo mount /media/CASIO it gives me mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda,
[02:08] <the_one>        or too many mounted file systems
[02:09] <Treenaks> the_one: you shouldn't mount /dev/sda but a partition
[02:09] <Treenaks> the_one: /dev/sda1 or /dev/sda2 or something
[02:10] <the_one> treenaks: what is the use of umask=022? isn't ntfs    ro,user,auto enough for properly mounting of ntfs?
[02:16] <Treenaks> the_one: yes it is enough
[02:16] <Treenaks> the_one: umask is not necessary
[02:16] <the_one> treenaks: I couldn't find an explanation of what it stands for, just want to learn a little.
[02:17] <Treenaks> the_one: a good explanation of umask is in the bash manual I think
[02:17] <Treenaks> or the builtins one
[02:17] <Falstius> for a portable camera, using LABEL=CAMERA works better that /dev/sda?
[02:17] <Treenaks> Falstius: use /dev/camera and udev rules
[02:18] <the_one> when I unplugged the camera and plugged it again it automatically mounted but with a different path, not the one im my fstab, should I remove it's entry completelly from fstab and let it automount each time with the path it wants?
[02:19] <Falstius> Treenaks, good point.  I should learn how to do that.
[02:19] <Treenaks> the_one: just let it automount
[02:19] <Treenaks> Falstius: first hit on google when searching for 'udev rules' :)
[02:20] <eruditus> hi - I downloaded a .deb package, and I don't know how to install it... It contains my printer drivers, which are not available from the servers...
[02:21] <the_one> I have an external usb 2,5 drive formatted in ntfs, will it automount with the proper settings when I connect it or do I have to set it in fstab?
[02:21] <the_one> since it's not fat, I'm wondering...
[02:22] <eruditus> hello?
[02:22] <opi> eruditus: dpkg -i package.deb
[02:22] <eruditus> opi, thank you very much :)
[02:26] <Falstius> I'm not in ubuntu at the moment to try this, but if I were to write a rule to have my camera always set to /dev/camera would the ubuntu automount still work?  It would mount it as I specify in fstab?
[02:27] <eruditus> opi, thank you very much. I've been fighting with that package for a week now :)...
[02:27] <BenZ|iBook> how do you check if DMA is enabled on a disk?
[02:28] <opi> eruditus: you're welcome
[02:30] <oferw> lulu: hi
[02:32] <the_one> treenaks: thanks for the help, it didn't allow me to access my partitions with my settings, it said I don't have apropriate permissions, but it works with umask=022
[02:33] <the_one> I set it up with umask=022,ro,auto
[02:34] <the_one> bye
[02:54] <berantl> Anyone out there using a bluetooth keyboard?
[02:55] <ondrej> I upgraded to hoary and then downgraded to warty and all programs using FAM have problem, they write: failed to find gam_server
[02:55] <ondrej> failed to exec (null)
[02:55] <ondrej> Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-ondrej-
[02:55] <ondrej> failed to find gam_server
[02:55] <ondrej> failed to exec (null)
[02:58] <krism> *sigh* every time i install bitchx, i forget to turn the auto away crap off
[02:58] <berantl> I've been unable to get mine to work under ubuntu, while it worked fine with debian unstable
[02:59] <iainm> ondrej, is the ubuntu-desktop package installed?
[02:59] <krism> has anybody been able to get pine to compile on ubuntu?
[02:59] <ondrej> iainm: no, but I miss only totem-gstream and xfree86-driver-synaptics from dependencies
[02:59] <Majestic|Linux> anyone here using another windows manager other than gnome?
[02:59] <alakdan> anybody got some links on where I could download the 2.6.9 kernel package for ubuntu?
[03:01] <pdamoc> hello
[03:01] <iainm> ondrej, I believe ubuntu-desktop should always be installed
[03:01] <pdamoc> I need some help setting the locale in Hoary
[03:02] <pdamoc> I tried "dpkg-reconfigure locales" and it says that the locale is brocken
[03:04] <ondrej> iainm: ubuntu-desktop is only meta package (you can check it by dpkg -L ubuntu-desktop), so there is no problem running ubuntu without it
[03:04] <seb128> $ apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
[03:04] <seb128> ...
[03:05] <foxfuz> hi
[03:05] <seb128> It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system packages are
[03:05] <seb128>  not desired.
[03:07] <ondrej> it seems that program tries connect to "/tmp/fam-ondrej-" (ECONNREFUSED) then tries to open /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server (ENOENT)
[03:08] <seb128> apt-get install gamin
[03:08] <ondrej> seb128: E: Package gamin has no installation candidate
[03:08] <seb128> which distribution are you using ?
[03:09] <ondrej> warty
[03:09] <Kamion> sounds like you must have pieces from hoary
[03:09] <ondrej> (but I upgraded to hoary and then downgraded to warty again)
[03:09] <ondrej> using apt/preferences
[03:09] <seb128> ok, so you upgraded gnome-vfs/nautilus to a new version that's built with libgamin0 apparently
[03:09] <Kamion> sounds like an incomplete downgrade then :-)
[03:10] <zenwhen> hey Kamion
[03:10] <Kamion> zenwhen: hi, I looked for you when I appeared this morning but you weren't around
[03:10] <Kamion> what did you need?
[03:11] <ondrej> Kamion: 'Package: * Pin: release a=warty Pin-Priority: 1001' should do it's job...  I think
[03:11] <Kamion> ondrej: I've never trusted /etc/apt/preferences particularly, since I don't understand it
[03:11] <pdamoc> I've upgraded my Warty to Hoary and I keep  getting locales errors... how do I fix that?
[03:11] <Kamion> ondrej: it sounds like it manifestly didn't do what you expected in your case
[03:11] <zenwhen> Is there a chance you cool guys might add gnome-ppp to the default Ubuntu install?
[03:12] <alakdan> anybody got some links on where I could download the 2.6.9 kernel package for ubuntu?
[03:12] <Kamion> zenwhen: that's not my bailiwick particularly; suggest it on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:12] <zenwhen> Oh
[03:12] <zenwhen> cool
[03:12] <ondrej> Kamion: I think it did, because I have correct versions of everything.
[03:12] <the_one> hi again
[03:13] <ondrej> but there maybe some forgotten gnome-vfs plugin?
[03:13] <Kamion> ondrej: maybe something left in ~/.gnome* then?
[03:13] <seb128> ondrej: which version of libgnomevfs2-0 and nautilus ?
[03:13] <Kamion> plus your downgrade tactic won't remove "obsolete" (a.k.a. new in hoary) packages
[03:13] <Kamion> you'd need to run aptitude or dselect and remove obsolete/local packages for that
[03:13] <seb128> yeah, libgamin0 has probably not been removed
[03:14] <Kamion> and libfam0c102 not put back
[03:14] <ondrej> gnome-vfs2: 2.8.2-0ubuntu1, nautilus: 2.8.1-0ubuntu1
[03:14] <Kamion> installing ubuntu-desktop from hoary should clear most of it up, I'd expect
[03:14] <Kamion> er, "ubuntu-desktop from warty" that is
[03:14] <the_one> I cannot mount my external dvd-writer, I have its entry in fstab as dev/scd0 but when I mount it it does nothing. How can I fin what is it's path? what should be the command to list all devices attached?
[03:14] <ondrej> seb128: you hit the nail on the head :-)
[03:14] <seb128> :)
[03:15] <ondrej> apt-get --purge install libfam0c102 seems to be what I needed
[03:15] <seb128> yeah
[03:15] <seb128> BTW why downgrading ?
[03:16] <ondrej> seb128: evo 2.1 had problem with remembering some configuration options (like Use authentication for SMTP)
[03:16] <the_one> anyone?
[03:16] <ondrej> libgamin0 Provides: libfam0c102, so it didn't get downgraded
[03:19] <Falstius> the_one: cat /proc/scsi/scsi will tell you all your scsi devices (/sdx)
[03:22] <lemsx1> ondrej, where can i read more about gamin? i know some people are having problems with that but if it's better than fam i'd like to at least give it a try
[03:23] <seb128> http://www.gnome.org/~veillard/gamin/
[03:23] <lemsx1> seb128, thanks
[03:23] <seb128> np
[03:28] <zenwhen> Kamion, I submitted my idea to the list.
[03:28] <zenwhen> :)
[03:30] <BeanDip> the_one "tail -f /var/log/messages" then you plug it in to the computer
[03:32] <neill> Has anyone had issues with serial ata on nvidia nforce 250gb boards?
[03:32] <neill> I get lots of spurious connected/disconnected events
[03:35] <WW> Is there an explanation somewhere of the "warty-updates" repository?  I don't have that in my sources.list.  It seemed to have appeared in discussions in the last month or so.
[03:36] <lhb_> has anyone gotten multisync and evolution plugin to work on ubuntu?
[03:37] <lhb_> warty or hoary?
[03:37] <lemsx1> lhb_, evo 1.x?
[03:37] <lhb_> lemsx1: 2
[03:37] <lemsx1> lhb_, multisync dislikes using more than 2 sync sources
[03:37] <lemsx1> lhb_, multisync doesn't work with evo2 yet... i'm waiting for the same thing
[03:38] <lhb_> lemsx1: the cvs version does but i cant get it to compile
[03:38] <lemsx1> lhb_, i mean, unless you know something i don't... i'm about to write a Perl script to do this for me :-D
[03:38] <lemsx1> lhb_, getting something to compile is easy... cvs works you say? i'll give it a try later then
[03:39] <angie> hi there
[03:39] <lhb_> lemsx1: cool, i think i have installed the required libs but still get errors
[03:40] <angie> any help for setting NAT (sharing dsl connection) in Ubuntu? i have multiple NICs
[03:40] <WW> Anybody?  Why "warty-updates"?  Why not just update the packages in main, restricted, and universe directly?
[03:42] <Kamion> we don't want to change distributions after we release them; the updates are optional
[03:42] <Kamion> if we changed warty directly we'd have to release new CD images, etc. => hassle
[03:43] <angie> so no advices for NAT in ubuntu?
[03:44] <WW> Kamion: So non-security related bug fixes (if there are any) would go in warty-updates?
[03:45] <Kamion> right
[03:45] <Kamion> I think :-)
[03:46] <spiritz> any ibm T42 user around?
[03:46] <WW> Kamion: I installed Ubuntu pre-release.  I stumbled across "warty-updates" in the forums.  Is there an official announcement or description of it on the web page somewhere?
[03:46] <WW> Kamion: (I tried searching the web page, but nothing showed up.)
[03:46] <Kamion> not sure, I'm afraid
[03:48] <WW> Kamion: Do you know if the sources.list in the final release includes warty-updates (probably commented out if it does)?
[03:48] <the_one> I have no sound while playing dvd's in ubuntu, with either xine or mplayer, oss or alsa, can't get it to work. Anybody else got the same problem? Any workarounds?
[03:48] <agenteo> I've installed the mozilla suite, now the default browser is mozilla instead of firefox! Why? It didn't ask to me. And if I go in Computer -> Desktop preferences -> Applications the default browser is still mozilla firefox!!
[03:49] <agenteo> :-\ someone can help me?
[03:50] <Kamion> WW: no, there's a bug about that
[03:50] <the_one> when trying to play dvd's with mplayer, I get many windows popping up rapidly saying alsa-control: mixer attach /dev/mixer error: no such file or directory
[03:50] <angie> the_one: try with sudo alsa-config
[03:51] <angie> mmhh sorry sudo alsaconf
[03:51] <the_one> ok, will try
[03:51] <the_one> command not found
[03:52] <angie> and check the volumes with alsamixer
[03:52] <the_one> angie: sudo alsaconf or alsa-config are not working
[03:54] <[Bas] > the_one, do you have sound at all? or just not in xine and mplayer?
[03:54] <the_one> I have sound with mp3 and video files
[03:54] <the_one> just not with dvds
[03:55] <[Bas] > the_one, you can try running mplayer with esd:  mplayer -oa esd dvd://
[03:55] <[Bas] > eum -ao that is
[03:56] <the_one> bas: i I tried with oss and esd also, no success
[04:00] <agenteo> solved I've had changed with update-alternatives, someone has experienced this problem?
[04:00] <Buzzz> is mono in hoary?
[04:01] <Buzzz> or do I have get it from universe?
[04:01] <Rob|Linux> just installed ubuntu
[04:03] <Gwildor_> what is the url for the ubuntu forums?, its not on the ubuntu homepage ne more
[04:04] <Rob|Linux> www.ubuntu.com can help
[04:04] <[Bas] > Gwildor_, http://ubuntuforums.org/
[04:04] <spiritz> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/forums
[04:04] <kent> http://ubuntuforums.org/
[04:04] <Gwildor_> thnx guys
[04:05] <charlesbc> I want to install a package, but apt-get tells me it is obsolete. Though there's no other package currently available to replace it. Is there a way I could still install it?
[04:05] <spiritz> download it
[04:05] <spiritz> or get it from /var/cache......
[04:05] <spiritz> and type dpkg -i packagename.deb
[04:06] <Treenaks> charlesbc: which package?
[04:07] <charlesbc> noteedit
[04:07] <Treenaks> what does it do?
[04:07] <charlesbc> though if the package is too outdated, I'll compile it myself.
[04:07] <Treenaks> charlesbc: do you have universe/multiverse in your /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[04:07] <charlesbc> It's a music notation editor, midi editing in the classical music notation style.
[04:08] <charlesbc> yes
[04:08] <Treenaks> charlesbc: hmmm
[04:08] <Treenaks> charlesbc: did you run apt-get update?
[04:08] <charlesbc> yup
[04:09] <charlesbc> Treenaks: why, were you able to install it?
[04:09] <Treenaks> can't try now.. not at home
[04:09] <charlesbc> ah ok :)
[04:09] <Treenaks> charlesbc: but noteedit is in the ubuntu archive
[04:10] <Treenaks> charlesbc: so it should be apt-get installable
[04:11] <tux> w00t cd's are shipped
[04:11] <tux> good news, :))
[04:11] <Rob|Linux> My first run on Ubuntu just finish installation what should I do?
[04:11] <Rob|Linux> apt-get update? and then apt-get upgrade?
[04:12] <Treenaks> Rob|Linux: or use synaptic (the package manager) from the Computer menu
[04:12] <charlesbc> is the ubuntu archive online? (I'd like to take a look there as well)
[04:12] <the_one> rob:linux: apt-get update/upgrade/dist-upgrade in order
[04:13] <maliks> HI! just a small query! I still havent got my freeCD! When can I expect it! thanks!
[04:13] <Rob|Linux> thanks the one
[04:13] <Rob|Linux> how often do I have to do that
[04:13] <the_one> rob-linux: np
[04:13] <Kamion> charlesbc: archive.ubuntu.com
[04:14] <charlesbc> ah, I found it already :)
[04:14] <the_one> Rob|Linux: every 2 weeks? 1 month? I don't know but it seems Ubuntu is updating frequently
[04:15] <Rob|Linux> so I do apt-get update, upgrade, dist-upgrade every 2 weeks for ex.
[04:15] <Tyche> Hello everyone
[04:15] <Treenaks> Rob|Linux: subscribe to the ubuntu-security-announce mailing list, and update when there's announcement..
[04:15] <charlesbc> but I wonder, when does a package become obsolete?
[04:15] <Tyche> Is there someone that can answer some apache/php questions?
[04:16] <Tyche> Treenaks: How do I subscribe to various Ubuntu mailing lists...I would be interested.
[04:16] <Kamion> charlesbc: apt views a package as obsolete when it's not provided by anything in /etc/apt/sources.list
[04:16] <Rob|Linux> thanks
[04:16] <Kamion> and when it's also installed
[04:16] <Treenaks> Tyche: look on the website, it has links
[04:16] <Tyche> Treenaks: Thanks, Sorry, still new to this.
[04:16] <Treenaks> Tyche: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/lists
[04:16] <Rob|Linux> Treenaks: thanks , I'm running synaptic now lets see what i'll do
[04:17] <Tyche> I installed apache/php/mysql last night. Everything is running fine. Except, it is a little weird. When I goto localhost it brings up the index and if no index the file listing.
[04:17] <charlesbc> Kamion: so if I were to provide a source which does contain that package, it will fetch it?
[04:18] <Kamion> yeah
[04:18] <Tyche> But, when I hit the IP address from another computer on the network. I do not get the file listing, I have to type in the IP/index.php in order for it to come up...
[04:19] <charlesbc> I found the package here: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/noteedit/
[04:27] <GFXstyLER> hi
[04:28] <GFXstyLER> i have a problem with anjuta in ubuntu
[04:28] <GFXstyLER> can someone help me ?
[04:28] <azeem> state your problem, otherwise nobody can tell
[04:28] <azeem> ...whether they could help you
[04:29] <GFXstyLER> the projects wont generate
[04:30] <GFXstyLER> it always says something with make
[04:31] <GFXstyLER> oh wait maybe i solved the problem :D
[04:32] <lemsx1> lhb, what errors do you get?
[04:32] <kent> is there any way to reconfigure /etc/network/interfaces to the way it was after installation? I kind of edited it useless :( Now i always get a failure when running /etc/init.d/network  :(
[04:32] <lemsx1> seb128, gamin works like a charm. installed/purged old fam/ and pkill nautilus... it takes 2mb of ram, but i can live with that :-D
[04:33] <the_one> has anybody tried novell linux desktop?
[04:33] <GFXstyLER> it says no make - no targets set or something like that
[04:33] <lemsx1> the_one, SuSe desktop
[04:33] <lemsx1> the_one, same thing
[04:33] <seb128> lemsx1: nice :)
[04:33] <the_one> lemsx1: well..rebranding
[04:33] <lemsx1> seb128, at least i didn't have to logout and login :-)
[04:34] <the_one> still, just curious how it looks and works
[04:34] <lemsx1> the_one, i haven't tried myself, but i guess you can find many reviews online for it
[04:34] <lemsx1> the_one, and that would be part of #ubuntu-offtopic :-)
[04:34] <lemsx1> the_one, no ofense to you of course... it's to avoid the noise here
[04:34] <the_one> lemsx1: np
[04:34] <scoon> so is anyone here using multimedia keys w/ gnome and if you are: Any problems ?
[04:35] <scoon> I have had one f'ing bit of a time getting the keys to work correctly.
[04:35] <scoon> but i think i have it down now
[04:37] <Gwildor_> #ubuntu-offtopic
[04:38] <WW> scoon: I used Computer->Desktop Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts, and was able to get a few of the extra button to do what they are labeled to do.
[04:39] <scoon> so do I, but I have bluetooth kbs and they don't match anything in xfree
[04:39] <scoon> or xorg for that matter.
[04:41] <kent> surely there must be a way to bring up the dialogs to edit the network that i got when installing ubuntu?  dpkg-reconfigure netbase does not :(
[04:41] <charlesbc> is there a way to contribute a newer version of a package?
[04:41] <xinel> anybody else here having java issues?
[04:41] <xinel> and by issues i mean pc freeze
[04:41] <{Fah-Q}> b
[04:42] <{Fah-Q}> er, hi :)
[04:43] <Gwildor_> hi
[04:47] <Tomcat_> Can I install Ubuntu on the same disk as WinXP Home?
[04:47] <mjr> yes, but on a separate disk partition
[04:47] <Tomcat_> Yeah, that's alright.
[04:48] <Tomcat_> I just read that WinXP home doesn't have Dynamic Disk Support...
[04:48] <Tomcat_> And the article writer concluded that without this, the disk was only usable in Win2k and XP.
[04:49] <Tomcat_> (I guess he never heard of Linux)
[04:53] <eclipse> fgfg
[04:54] <RageMax> is nautilus crashing constantly for anyone else using hoary?
[04:54] <mjr> tomcat, the writer is clueless
[04:54] <mjr> Dynamic Disk support is more likely to screw other operating systems over ;)
[04:54] <Tomcat_> When a site is called "winsupersite.com", you can guess that. :D
[04:56] <Tomcat_> I guess that means my new laptop could also have WinXP Home. :>
[04:57] <Tyche> Bah, XP!
[04:57] <Tyche> =)
[04:57] <Tomcat_> Unfortunately I need some kind of Windows, and Win2k seems a bit old now. :o
[04:57] <Tomcat_> But I'll probably stay on Ubuntu much more. :>
[04:57] <Tyche> I know, I still require windows....although I hate it more and more each day.
[04:58] <Tyche> Guess, I need to quit playing my games...and then I could be 100% linux at home. =)
[04:58] <Tomcat_> I tried to switch a few months ago... then Ubuntu trashed my partition table, so I stopped. :o
[04:58] <Tomcat_> Yeah. :>
[04:59] <Tyche> I'm looking for an apache irc channel.
[04:59] <GFXstyLER> hi
[04:59] <poin__t> hey guys
[04:59] <Tyche> I tried one called #directory that I googled and it is empty...doesn't seem right.
[04:59] <Tyche> point__t Hey there
[04:59] <GFXstyLER> how can i make ubuntu play video files correctly?
[04:59] <poin__t> anyone use lvm\2 with online resize and\or snapshots?
[04:59] <Tyche> What type?
[05:00] <GFXstyLER> they are always played very slow or very fast, but not normal
[05:00] <GFXstyLER> every type :D
[05:00] <Tyche> GFXstyLER: Oh, not sure, what app?
[05:00] <mjr> GFXstyLER, funny; but try installing totem-xine instead the gstreamer variety
[05:00] <GFXstyLER> totem and xmms
[05:00] <GFXstyLER> ok
[05:00] <mjr> instead of
[05:01] <GFXstyLER> but i have to remove "ubuntu-desktop" for it, sure this isnt bad?
[05:01] <azeem> depends
[05:01] <mjr> it isn't
[05:02] <GFXstyLER> ok .. too late :D
[05:02] <poin__t> GFXstyLER: what kind of machine are you using? processor, etc
[05:02] <aaroncuk> hi guys
[05:02] <mjr> well, make a note that you might want to reinstall ubuntu-desktop when upgrading to hoary, so that if something is added to ubuntu-desktop, you'll get it ;)
[05:02] <GFXstyLER> amd athlon xp 3200+ , 512 mb ddr ram, geforce fx 5700 ultra
[05:02] <aaroncuk> can someone spare a minute for a newbie lol
[05:03] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: Whatcha need?
[05:03] <aaroncuk> need to know how to set mpd as a system service so it autoruns on boot
[05:04] <kent> My brother gets a failure when running /etc/init.d/network. Ok, so no one know how to reconfigure ut (not by using gnome, since that wont help). is there any way to find out exactly whats going wrong? dhcp logs etc??
[05:04] <GFXstyLER> hmm... ok very bad synaptic does not find the lists anymore
[05:04] <GFXstyLER> oh ok, i had it run 2 times :D sorry
[05:05] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: I'd setup /etc/init.d/mpd and link it to /etc/rc2.d/S99mpd
[05:05] <GFXstyLER> ok, now video files are only blue
[05:05] <GFXstyLER> no screen anymore :D
[05:05] <aaroncuk> how do i do that lol, i used ubuntu for the first time yesterday lol
[05:06] <scoon> xinel: no, and i use tiger
[05:06] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: *let me re-check mpd* one minute
[05:06] <aaroncuk> the guys over at #mpd have helped loads but im still crap lol
[05:06] <mjr> GFXstyLER, hmh, that's actually a known bug in XFree, try to quit totem and restart it
[05:06] <mjr> should work on the second try ;)
[05:07] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: what's mpd do?
[05:07] <aaroncuk> its remotely controlled mp3 daemon
[05:07] <aaroncuk> http://www.musicpd.org
[05:08] <GFXstyLER> ok it works now
[05:08] <GFXstyLER> thanks guys :D
[05:08] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: Do you have a /etc/init.d/mpd  file?
[05:08] <aaroncuk> hmm lemme see
[05:08] <GFXstyLER> BUT, because gstreamer isnt installed anymore, do i get any problems now?
[05:09] <mjr> GFXstyLER, gstreamer is still installed, it's just that totem doesn't use it anymore
[05:09] <mjr> (so no ;)
[05:09] <aaroncuk> ive done an ls command and there is no mpd in innit.d
[05:09] <GFXstyLER> oh, sorry
[05:09] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: did you apt-get install mpd ?
[05:09] <aaroncuk> no.. had to build and install it manually
[05:10] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: any reason apt-get didn't work for ya? *curiosity*
[05:10] <aaroncuk> never tried it, the guys at mpd talked me through doing it manually
[05:10] <boldii> hi
[05:10] <ironwolf> try apt-get install mpd
[05:11] <ironwolf> or sudo -s apt-get install mpd
[05:11] <boldii> just installed ubuntu, I have to say: nice work.
[05:11] <aaroncuk> i dont want to overwrite my current install , just got it working lol
[05:11] <Tyche> boldii: Oh yea!
[05:11] <GFXstyLER> only a question: does it slow down the system in general if the ati drivers arent installed? because the 3d acceleration isnt working
[05:12] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: try saving your config files.  If you overwrite them in the apt-get install, then restore them.
[05:12] <boldii> I even like gnome even though I never thought I would as a 4 year kde user ;)
[05:12] <boldii> a bit different but nice ...
[05:12] <aaroncuk> ok ironwolf.. will do that now
[05:13] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: think of it this way, if apt-get blows up, you already know how to fix it, but if apt-get works, you have a much easier time next time.
[05:13] <aaroncuk> yeah
[05:13] <aaroncuk> it cant find anything under mpd justs brings snmpd.
[05:13] <boldii> what are recommend sources for my sources.list ?
[05:14] <ironwolf> boldi: I recommend universe. :)
[05:14] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: do you have universe in your /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[05:15] <boldii> yor mean the ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED?
[05:16] <ironwolf> boldi: yeah, but I live dangerously.  I'm running hoary, with universe and multi-verse and I'm not seeing any problems at all.
[05:16] <boldii> btw. wasn t the <IP_ADDRESS> kernel the kernel that had problems with cd burners?
[05:16] <scoon> boldii: yes
[05:16] <aaroncuk> they were commented they arent now lol
[05:16] <boldii> ironwolf, well, I ran gentoo ~x86 for 2 years ;)
[05:17] <scoon> boldii: not a problem with cdburners but a tightening of device perms
[05:17] <boldii> so, what is the debian way for getting new kernel?
[05:17] <ironwolf> boldi: not very familiar with gentoo.  With ubuntu, universe seems a safe bet.  Multiverse... is more fun, but less safe.
[05:17] <ironwolf> aaroncuk: apt-get update ; apt-get install mpd
[05:17] <scoon> boldii: well, i too switched from gentoo, and the way I do it is the same way i did it in gentoo.
[05:17] <boldii> ironwolf, well, at the end gentoo broke my glibc, and thats why I am here ;)
[05:18] <azeem> what's the difference in multiverse vs. universe WRT stability?
[05:18] <boldii> scoon, get them from kernel.org ?
[05:18] <scoon> boldii: go to kernel.org and get a vanilla one, and then if you want to beat the new cd perms, get a patchset (i use -ck)
[05:18] <azeem> I thought the difference is just about freeness?
[05:18] <ironwolf> azeem: ANYTHING GOES in multiverse.
[05:18] <azeem> ironwolf: eh?
[05:18] <scoon> boldii: http://www.kernel.org
[05:18] <azeem> only non-free stuff I thought
[05:18] <rasher> can anyone help me configure a linux-wlan-ng device? I have the exact same problem as http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-November/009813.html
[05:18] <azeem> while anything from Debian main goes into universe
[05:18] <azeem> (which builds)
[05:19] <ironwolf> azeem: the way it was described to me, multiverse has things like mplayer, etc.  things that don't get into universe.  I guess I'm unsure what the stability difference is.
[05:19] <GFXstyLER> i have wlan problems too (i cant find a driver for bcm4301 , seems it does not exist)
[05:19] <boldii> scoon, ok, but isn t there a way to get it via apt-get? btw where is the grub.conf file?
[05:20] <ironwolf> azeem:  I know that warty is considered stable and hoary is considered in development.
[05:20] <scoon> boldii: yes, i guess so, but i like using the -ck patches and I already had a .config for my kernel.
[05:20] <scoon> boldii: /boot/grub/menu.lst
[05:20] <GFXstyLER> how can i activate sharing of files in a network in ubuntu? i have to transfer data from my pc -> notebook but i dont know how
[05:20] <Kamion> ironwolf: universe and multiverse carry about the same stability guarantees (i.e. none)
[05:21] <rasher> GFXstyLER: maybe ndiswrapper could work?
[05:21] <ironwolf> Kamion: good to know.
[05:21] <scoon> boldii: gentoo always wanted a symlink for that when installed.
[05:21] <Kamion> ironwolf: the difference between the two is entirely freeness
[05:21] <scoon> boldii: may I ask why you switched ?
[05:21] <GFXstyLER> yes i read that it works with that but you have to compile and such and im new to linux so i dont know how do to :D
[05:21] <azeem> Kamion: is multiverse aimed at potentially including all of Debian's non-free, or just specific packages?
[05:21] <azeem> (modulo usual universe rules)
[05:22] <boldii> scoon, because gentoo break my glibc after two years of gentoo, so I thought: time for something new, and now I am here after two years gentoo and four years kde ;)
[05:22] <rasher> GFXstyLER: I think the required bits are in ubuntu, just install ndiswrapper-utils and do ndiswrapper -i DRIVER.inf
[05:22] <Kamion> azeem: I *think* anything we can distribute, but I haven't paid a great deal of attention to it
[05:23] <scoon> boldii: interesting, me as well.  i ran redhat since 1996 and then gentoo ~x86 for about 18 months.
[05:23] <GFXstyLER> ok thx rasher
[05:23] <Kamion> azeem: might well be just on-demand
[05:23] <scoon> boldii: so far i really like it.
[05:23] <scoon> boldii: of course i haven't even run this for a week.  but it has been a very good few days.
[05:24] <boldii> scoon, and I have to say I like apt-get really a lot, especially that I musn t wait so long for updates (I used debian before gentoo for a year, but it was a quite hairy knoppix hd install)
[05:24] <boldii> scoon, I have it for a few hours now.
[05:24] <boldii> scoon, you run gnome?
[05:24] <scoon> boldii: yes.
[05:24] <scoon> boldii: so far it has been pretty good.  have only had a couple of issues so far.  but nothing major.
[05:25] <boldii> scoon, well, I am used to kde. I just installed k3b and kdevelop, but I will use gnome I guess ...
[05:25] <scoon> boldii: you can get kde, it is in ubuntu,
[05:25] <GFXstyLER> brb
[05:26] <scoon> boldii: they also have openbox and xfrce
[05:26] <boldii> scoon, I know, but I somehow like gnome.
[05:26] <scoon> boldii: ah yes.  everyone usually does.
[05:26] <scoon> boldii: and the ubuntu tweaks make it look really good.  and work well
[05:27] <krischan> hello everyone.
[05:29] <krischan> I'd like to ask about Quake, if it's appropriate. I'd like resume gaming, but I'm totally unexperienced doing it on Linux. I've installed packages 'quake2' and 'quake2-data', but that doesn't seem to be enough to get the game running.
[05:29] <boldii> scoon, yeah, I just have to get my XF86Config-4 to run with 1280x1024 and then everything is ok. 1024x768 sucks ...
[05:31] <boldii> btw. how about the new firefox, when will it be in ubuntu, is there anything known?
[05:31] <azeem> Kamion: hmm, ok
[05:31] <Qton> I just installed Ubuntu with Finnish language and its a mix of English, Finnish and Swedish :D Could someone please tell me how to change the language? I prefer English anyway..
[05:31] <rasher> boldii: it is in hoary now, not sure if packages propagate to warty after the release.. I don't think so
[05:31] <lupus_> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/ I can see this page with firefox
[05:32] <lupus_> but wit apt-get Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Release  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)
[05:32] <crisp> boldii:  just upgrade it yoursefl if you want it badly
[05:32] <boldii> ok, thanks. so what about those ubuntu releases, when I have one I can update to the next without having to reinstall, right?
[05:33] <scoon> boldii: polly not until hoary.  altho I did create a local repository
[05:33] <scoon> boldii: and was apble to apt-get it into my stable warty.
[05:33] <ironwolf> boldii: I updated to hoary without re-installing.
[05:34] <boldii> I see I have to read the faq a bit to see what hoary and warty is ^^
[05:35] <ironwolf> boldi: warty is 4.10 it's currently released, hoary is 5.04 and it's currently under development *think unstable in debian*
[05:36] <dataw0lf> wow, that's a big vn jump.
[05:36] <boldii> ok, so what I have is warty =)
[05:36] <boldii> dataw0lf, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/version-numbers
[05:37] <dataw0lf> ah.
[05:37] <dataw0lf> interesting.
[05:40] <GFXstyLER> hi again
[05:40] <GFXstyLER> ok i installed ndiswrapper-tools now and copied the wlan drivers
[05:41] <GFXstyLER> but how do i use them now?
[05:42] <boldii> how can I reset the translation of ubuntu to the english one?
[05:43] <Keybuk> boldii: sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
[05:43] <Keybuk> (I think that's right :p)
[05:44] <boldii> yeah, thanks.
[05:44] <azeem> and choose a different language at the login screen
[05:45] <azeem> Wow, Jim Gettys :)
[05:48] <GFXstyLER> ok i installed the bcmwl5.inf driver with ndiswrapper now, and how can i use it for the wlan card now? please this is urgent :D
[05:48] <boldii> can I get the nonfree nvidia drivers with ubuntu via apt-get?
[05:48] <kent> boldii, yes. Read the information on the homepage.
[05:49] <cardador> kent: do you know when the new nvidia driver will be available?
[05:49] <rasher> GFXstyLER: it should magically show up in the network configuration thing when you try to add a new device.. I think
[05:50] <GFXstyLER> nope
[05:50] <rasher> hm
[05:50] <rasher> dunno, haven't actually used it myself
[05:50] <GFXstyLER> do i have to reboot?
[05:50] <kent> cardador, when the next Ubuntu is released? They cant change packages in a stable release,  can they? well, bugfixes is one thing, but new versions is not possible, i think..
[05:50] <boldii> thanks kent.
[05:51] <cardador> kent: i meant on hoary
[05:51] <kent> cardador, oh. I dont use Hoary, i use the stable Ubuntu. In hoary i have no clue,
[05:52] <cardador> kent: ok thanks
[05:52] <boldii> I think I will install ubuntu on my laptop =)
[05:52] <GFXstyLER> hmmm.... ill try to look up google, maybe there's some information about bcm4301
[05:55] <boldii> is /usr/src/ the right place for putting the kernel sources? I mean becuase there are none?
[05:56] <scoon> boldii: yea sure.
[05:56] <scoon> boldii: it doesn't really matter tho.  you just need to sudo make modules_install && sudo make install
[05:57] <scoon> boldii: if you use the nvidia drivers, the installer looks for the /usr/src/linux symlink, so I just keep my kernel in /usr/src
[05:57] <ironwolf> cardador: kent: I'm using hoary, it's pretty fluid.  new versions, etc.
[05:57] <cardador> ironwolf: im using it also.
[05:58] <FTTP> hi!
[05:58] <cardador> ironwolf: just wanted to know when will the new nvidia driver be available. its already on debian unstable.
[05:58] <deFrysk> read this for nvida and other drivers: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto
[05:58] <cardador> ironwolf: i want to get more frames per second on counter strike source :)
[05:58] <deFrysk> nvidia
[05:59] <FTTP> bugzilla uses digital cert?
[05:59] <FTTP> thawte shows :)
[05:59] <ironwolf> cardador: good luck. :)
[05:59] <cardador> ironwolf: for what?
[05:59] <FTTP> its funny that bugzilla requires a digital cert, goes back to the founders roots :)
[05:59] <ironwolf> cardador: for more frames/sec
[06:00] <cardador> ironwolf: i read somewhere that it actually provides +10 fps
[06:00] <kent> ironwolf, most people dont need a "pretty fluid" system. I want a desktop that works all the time, i want to be sure that no new package breaks my system tomorrow. When Hoary is due to be released, i *might* use it to test for bugs, but not as a desktop.
[06:00] <FTTP> ok bugzilla is working
[06:00] <FTTP> that was unusual :P
[06:01] <FTTP> are any of you ubuntu developers?
[06:01] <FTTP> i have a couple of questions/pointers
[06:01] <cardador> kent: just curiosity, you didnt come from debian sid, did you? :)
[06:01] <FTTP> hi kent
[06:02] <ironwolf> kent: everybody's looking for different things.  I'm glad you're enjoying warty. :)
[06:02] <FTTP> ironwolf:  it looks good :)
[06:02] <FTTP> ironwolf:  Warty has no config options in graphical tho for equipment and hardware
[06:03] <FTTP> like with stormix you had the storm administration system (which was also based on debian)
[06:03] <FTTP> i miss stormix, that had so much potential
[06:03] <FTTP> ubuntu reminds me alot of stormix
[06:03] <FTTP> but without the tools for hardware
[06:03] <azeem> hardware should just work[tm]
[06:03] <azeem> no need for configuration :)
[06:04] <FTTP> azeem:  Yes it works fine...........
[06:04] <FTTP> azeem:  On the livecd
[06:04] <FTTP> azeem:  So in the old days of debian, it didnt autoconfig the hardware?
[06:04] <FTTP> azeem what happens if you get new hardware tho
[06:04] <azeem> back in '93?
[06:05] <azeem> no
[06:05] <FTTP> azeem during the days of stormix
[06:05] <FTTP> not back in 93
[06:05] <azeem> no idea about stormix
[06:05] <FTTP> you remmeber stormix?
[06:05] <azeem> eh, I know the name
[06:05] <FTTP> it was debian based
[06:05] <FTTP> azeem:  well even with fedora and suse for example
[06:05] <azeem> so
[06:06] <azeem> what's your problem specifically?
[06:06] <FTTP> azeem:   no problem just some pointers
[06:06] <FTTP> azeem are you a ubuntu developer?
[06:06] <azeem> no
[06:06] <azeem> pointers to what?
[06:06] <FTTP> ok
[06:06] <boldii> >> You must install ncurses-devel in order to use 'make menuconfig' . but there is no ncurses-devel and no ncurses?
[06:06] <Kamion> libncurses5-dev
[06:06] <azeem> boldii: libncurses5-dev
[06:06] <FTTP> azeem:  Like there is no setting to change my monitor in ubuntu
[06:06] <azeem> damn
[06:07] <azeem> FTTP: you can change the resolution via the GNOME preferences
[06:07] <boldii> thanks.
[06:07] <FTTP> azeem:  SUSE and Fedora have my monitor in a list
[06:07] <azeem> FTTP: why would you change your monitor to something else than it is?
[06:07] <kent> cardador, i Have used debian unstable before, and it works most of the time, but time to time it fucks up the system, and thats not fun. And its the same for every unstable system, be it fedora or ubuntu.  Some people might like it, but most people should not.
[06:07] <FTTP> azeem:  Right but......... what im saying is i should be able to choose monitor from a list ......... it doesnt configure my monitor right, since i can go to high refresh rates and different resolutions
[06:07] <Kamion> for most hardware we'd prefer to use the hotplug subsystem, which is zero-configuration
[06:07] <azeem> FTTP: that's a bug then
[06:07] <Kamion> 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' to fiddle monitor settings
[06:08] <FTTP> kamion are you a developer?
[06:08] <daniels> FTTP: the problem with monitor lists is that they tend to be woefully incomplete
[06:08] <azeem> FTTP: why do you need to talk to developers? The community should be able to help you
[06:08] <daniels> FTTP: especially as many people tend to take monitors and oem them, and strip them of all identifying information
[06:08] <daniels> FTTP: we weighed up both alternatives and going with autodetection has been the best so far
[06:08] <FTTP> azeem well i want people who are working on the os, i guess you all are community :)
[06:09] <cardador> kent: i use ubuntu hoary at work, no problems until now :)
[06:09] <FTTP> daniels yeah its very nice dont get me wrong
[06:09] <FTTP> daniels  i like it ALOT
[06:09] <Kamion> FTTP: as it happens yes, but as azeem says I'd hope that's irrelevant
[06:09] <FTTP> heh
[06:09] <FTTP> it kinda is i guess
[06:09] <FTTP> lol
[06:09] <rasher> curiosity is powerful
[06:10] <FTTP> kamion:  See i came from the distros which had the lists and its just what im used to
[06:10] <Kamion> FTTP: note that developers often have very specialised areas of expertise, so unless you know what those are up-front it's often just as good to direct your question to the channel in general
[06:10] <FTTP> even tho when u select the monitor, sometimes its wrong too
[06:10] <azeem> FTTP: well, change to the Ubuntu way!
[06:10] <Kamion> FTTP: my expertise doesn't include anything to do with monitors :-)
[06:10] <FTTP> kamion gotcha
[06:10] <azeem> actually, coming from Windows, your perception might be even much more off
[06:11] <FTTP> azeem no actually i used distros like slackware and old redhat versions and suse, etc...
[06:11] <FTTP> im not new to linux
[06:11] <azeem> yeah, I realized
[06:11] <FTTP> i remember my slackware 3.0 which i learned on
[06:11] <FTTP> the days of walnut creek :P
[06:11] <azeem> I just say you should try Ubuntu without letting your perceptions of Linux distributions confuse you
[06:12] <FTTP> i did and i like it, it configured all my hardware correctly except it didnt give access to the monitor resolutions and the like
[06:12] <azeem> FTTP: as I said, you can change that through the GNOME system properties
[06:12] <FTTP> azeem its not on the list
[06:13] <azeem> that's a bug :)
[06:13] <Ruffian|JANE|> How do I dual boot XP and Ubuntu on 2 hard drives?
[06:14] <FTTP> azeem:  I like the startup menus and such.........  it also doesnt go into the kernel right away listing all those text based stuff... just a few lines before the screen comes up
[06:14] <GFXstyLER> *muahahahahahhaa
[06:14] <GFXstyLER> wlan is working ;)
[06:14] <GFXstyLER> thx guys
[06:14] <rasher> GFXstyLER: now you help me!
[06:14] <scoon> anyone here gconftool-2 pros ?
[06:14] <GFXstyLER> ok
[06:14] <GFXstyLER> whats your problem :D ?
[06:14] <FTTP> azeem:  are these stock gnome 2.8 or was this custom for ubuntu?
[06:15] <FTTP> azeem:  if u know :P
[06:15] <azeem> FTTP: what "those"?
[06:15] <rasher> GFXstyLER: wlan :) Well, nevermind, I think I'll just poke around on my own
[06:15] <FTTP> im just curious
[06:15] <FTTP> azeem:  The startup prompts for the livecd
[06:15] <GFXstyLER> maybe i can help you :)
[06:15] <FTTP> azeem:  like when you boot into it
[06:15] <azeem> FTTP: what does booting have to do with GNOME?
[06:15] <FTTP> azeem i dunno
[06:15] <FTTP> azeem good point
[06:16] <azeem> the GNOME boot splash is custom for Ubuntu, but that is quite obvious from the 'Ubuntu' that's on it :)
[06:17] <FTTP> azeem:  With fedora and suse too many of the internals are showing
[06:17] <FTTP> err fedora
[06:17] <FTTP> suse i think hides it actually
[06:17] <FTTP> azeem:  For desktop tho fedora is too wieldy
[06:17] <FTTP> and redhat is too commerical IMHO
[06:18] <azeem> I've never used either Fedora nor SuSE, so I cannot comment
[06:18] <FTTP> azeem:  See alot of distros have their own software outside of gnome......... ubuntu uses gnome for everything
[06:19] <azeem> they use synaptic for package management, e.g.
[06:19] <FTTP> no i mean....... thats visable to the end user
[06:19] <FTTP> see we just see everything in gnome and there isnt a seperate section of like yast2 or whatnot
[06:19] <azeem> synaptic is for end users, really
[06:20] <FTTP> azeem is that in gnome?
[06:20] <azeem> synaptic is gtk2
[06:20] <FTTP> so it integrates with gnome?
[06:20] <azeem> somewhat GNOME-integrating
[06:20] <FTTP> azeem is it on the menu tho?
[06:20] <azeem> FTTP: also, they use Firefox, which is totally non-GNOME :P
[06:20] <FTTP> what does gnome come stock with?
[06:20] <azeem> FTTP: it's in the Computer->System configuration menu, AFAIK
[06:20] <azeem> epiphany
[06:20] <icecrash> salve
[06:20] <azeem> for web browsing
[06:20] <rasher> It is not, however, a part of the gnome suite of software afaik
[06:20] <FTTP> oh ok
[06:21] <azeem> rasher: epiphany is
[06:21] <FTTP> firebox is great tho
[06:21] <FTTP> much better
[06:21] <rasher> azeem: I meant synaptic
[06:21] <FTTP> oh
[06:21] <azeem> rasher: sure, as I said, it's not even a GNOME application
[06:21] <rasher> I'm just a tad slow :|
[06:21] <icecrash> i have a little problems with the ubuntu nameresolving settings
[06:21] <FTTP> rasher have u used suse or fedora?
[06:21] <rasher> FTTP: Nope
[06:21] <GFXstyLER> i dont like firefox
[06:21] <azeem> plus, synaptic doesn't do packages management on e.g. Solaris or *BSD, so it cannot be a GNOME desktop app by definition I guess
[06:21] <icecrash> have a desktop installation and apache2 running on it
[06:22] <icecrash> apache won't start up, because additional aliases on the localhost address cannot be resolved
[06:23] <FTTP> rasher what did u use before ubuntu? debian?
[06:23] <boldii> ok, making kernel now =)
[06:23] <FTTP> ubuntu is based off of debian so.......
[06:23] <FTTP> :P
[06:24] <xoxoxo> hello
[06:24] <rasher> FTTP: I still do. I just have Ubuntu on a laptop so far. Not sure if I'm going to switch more over.
[06:24] <xoxoxo> i first installed ubutu, but what is the default root password of ubuntu???
[06:24] <GFXstyLER> i used suse (2 days) then mandrake (3 days) then fedora core 2(1 day) and now ubuntu (4 days) and i think its the best of all
[06:24] <azeem> xoxoxo: there is none
[06:24] <azeem> xoxoxo: use sudo for administration
[06:24] <FTTP> gfx ok since u used em both
[06:24] <deFrysk> root = sudo <userpasswd>
[06:24] <azeem> xoxoxo: the initial user has full sudo priviledges
[06:25] <dargo> hi
[06:25] <xoxoxo> azeem, so i need to change the root password first?
[06:25] <FTTP> gfx:  you know how with suse that suse yast is kinda seperate from the gnome interface?
[06:25] <azeem> xoxoxo: no
[06:25] <deFrysk> xoxoxo, there is none
[06:25] <azeem> xoxoxo: you do not need the root password at all
[06:25] <rasher> GFXstyLER: well, I've been a debianite for the past 3 years, so I'm not going anywhere just yet :)
[06:25] <GFXstyLER> i never used gnome with suse
[06:25] <xoxoxo> you all mean i NEVER need to know root password?
[06:25] <azeem> xoxoxo: if you do "sudo <command>", just type *your* password if asked
[06:26] <azeem> xoxoxo: you cannot know it, as there is none
[06:26] <FTTP> gfx i never used kde with suse :P
[06:26] <FTTP> gfx well with kde also
[06:26] <azeem> xoxoxo: and you do not need it
[06:26] <GFXstyLER> im too stupid for debian :D tried to install it but failed
[06:26] <deFrysk> I never used suse
[06:26] <deFrysk> since 6.1
[06:26] <boldii> xoxoxo, but you could du "sudo passwd root"
[06:26] <azeem> GFXstyLER: the installation is mostly identicial
[06:26] <azeem> GFXstyLER: if you install sarge/testing, that is
[06:26] <GFXstyLER> yes but configuration seems hard to me
[06:26] <azeem> boldii: except you shouldn't
[06:27] <xoxoxo> boldii, sudo passwd root asked me the old password
[06:27] <boldii> azeem, I cannot live w/o root
[06:27] <rasher> if you *really* need a root prompt, sudo bash
[06:27] <xoxoxo> azeem, how come there is no root password? i want to config ubuntu the old way, like other debian system
[06:27] <Friczy> hi
[06:27] <deFrysk> sudo xterm
[06:28] <azeem> xoxoxo: use sudo
[06:28] <boldii> I don t like this sudo crap as I have other users except me on my pc ...
[06:28] <azeem> boldii: so?
[06:28] <deFrysk> xoxoxo, read the faq on the ubuntu page
[06:28] <kent> just edit /etc/passwd to get a normal root account.
[06:28] <GFXstyLER> sudo passwd root  would activate the root account
[06:28] <xoxoxo> so there is NEVER root on ubuntu???
[06:28] <azeem> xoxoxo: actually, you should configure your Debian system by using sudo as well
[06:28] <FTTP> gfx well always youve used yast with suse right?
[06:28] <xoxoxo> that is funny man
[06:28] <boldii> azeem, so anybody could open a root shell and do everything, as my user is the autologin user ...
[06:28] <GFXstyLER> yes i used yast
[06:28] <dataw0lf> ubuntu forcing you to use sudo is helping you learn good habits, bro.
[06:29] <GFXstyLER> but i think its a little slow
[06:29] <azeem> boldii: well, don't autologin then
[06:29] <xoxoxo> boldii, i think same
[06:29] <FTTP> gfx:  ok well in ubuntu there is no yast equivalent or is there?
[06:29] <FTTP> gfx:  Or does it just use whats built into gnome??
[06:29] <deFrysk> yast2 sucks
[06:29] <Friczy> boldii: but sudo asks for your password isnt it?
[06:29] <deFrysk> big time
[06:29] <GFXstyLER> i guess not
[06:29] <azeem> boldii: but do not tell people who come here to throw away Ubuntu design principles without at least thinking twice, please
[06:29] <xoxoxo> so anybody sits at the console can do anything on my machine without knowing my root password, right ????
[06:29] <azeem> Friczy: good point
[06:29] <Friczy> xoxoxo: no
[06:29] <boldii> azeem, sorry, didn t know that. I have figured out during install the sudo thing and hated it. ...
[06:29] <azeem> xoxoxo: they need to know *your* password
[06:29] <deFrysk> xoxoxo, ne he needs user passwd
[06:30] <Friczy> xoxoxo: if she knows your password
[06:30] <FTTP> gfx:  See i like to have the option of something like yast but integrated directly into gnome
[06:30] <dataw0lf> three different type of pronouns, that was interesting.
[06:30] <hypa7ia> lol, i think we need to have something in the /topic about the root pw thing
[06:30] <xoxoxo> azeem, you dont get my point. assuming i get out without logging out
[06:30] <FTTP> gfx:  With the same feature set i mean
[06:30] <dataw0lf> types*
[06:30] <GFXstyLER> yes
[06:30] <azeem> xoxoxo: xscreensaver
[06:30] <FTTP> gfx:  not the same yast program
[06:30] <xoxoxo> then people can sit at my console and do anyting
[06:30] <rasher> xoxoxo: you still need to type your password for sudo
[06:30] <GFXstyLER> but i dont like suse or yast in general
[06:30] <azeem> xoxoxo: otherwise, they can compromise your SSH and gnupg keys
[06:30] <Kamion> boldii: create a different user for autologin, or else configure /etc/sudoers appropriately for your setup
[06:30] <xoxoxo> azeem, if this is way ubuntu works, you dont understand about security at all
[06:30] <FTTP> gfx:  see with suse you have to go out of gnome and into yast...... everything should be done from gnome
[06:30] <rasher> xoxoxo: also, *don't* leave your computer open
[06:30] <azeem> xoxoxo: which isn't much better, no?
[06:31] <FTTP> gfx :  I dont like yast either
[06:31] <dataw0lf> xoxoxo: if you have a good password and physically secure your box, it shouldn't be a problem.
[06:31] <FTTP> gfx:  Im just saying i wish those features were incorporated into gnome and built into the gui too not the same way
[06:31] <xoxoxo> i can sometime forget to logout
[06:31] <boldii> Kamion, well, I will continue doing it the "su root" way, but thanks.
[06:31] <dataw0lf> I use a 12 character password for my normal user.
[06:31] <azeem> xoxoxo: and why wouldn't you leave a root shell open?
[06:31] <xoxoxo> for one or 2 mins, anybody can fsck up my machine
[06:31] <GFXstyLER> maybe in the next gnome version
[06:31] <Friczy> xoxoxo: then edit your sudoers file
[06:31] <Kamion> xoxoxo: never leave your machine without logging out or locking your screen; local root compromises are typically much easier than remote access compromises
[06:31] <rasher> xoxoxo: the thing is, they *still* need your password to sudo things
[06:32] <azeem> xoxoxo: plus, sudo has a timeout
[06:32] <azeem> xoxoxo: people will be asked your password again when they try sudo
[06:32] <FTTP> it seems like there are so many linux distros and constant development on apps coming from all
[06:32] <FTTP> so if its a bug in debian or ubuntu it still gets fixed :)
[06:32] <xoxoxo> ok, rasher, you mean i must provide root password for sudo? which password?
[06:32] <FTTP> for both too
[06:32] <rasher> xoxoxo: your own password
[06:32] <azeem> xoxoxo: you must provide *your* password
[06:32] <xoxoxo> my system now is in default config
[06:32] <azeem> xoxoxo: everybody else as well
[06:32] <rasher> xoxoxo: do you even know how sudo works?
[06:33] <xoxoxo> ok, sudo passwd root?
[06:33] <rasher> Why????
[06:33] <azeem> xoxoxo: that would be the way to re-enable the root account
[06:33] <GFXstyLER> what i dont get is why they say linux is only used 5% worldwide altough so many people use it
[06:33] <xoxoxo> then it asked the password. what to type in now?
[06:33] <azeem> xoxoxo: however, I suggest you try the sudo way for a while
[06:33] <Friczy> xoxoxo: for example: sudo bash
[06:33] <FTTP> gfx is it a bug when u do logoff it shuts down the computer?
[06:33] <Friczy> then system asks for your own password
[06:33] <azeem> xoxoxo: btw, Mac OS X works exactly the same
[06:33] <FTTP> or is that just on my machine
[06:34] <Kamion> GFXstyLER: 5% of the world is a lot of people
[06:34] <GFXstyLER> when i log off it doesnt shut down
[06:34] <FTTP> gfx really?
[06:34] <xoxoxo> ok guys, i changed my password now
[06:34] <GFXstyLER> yes
[06:34] <FTTP> gfx u using livecd?
[06:34] <azeem> FTTP: you got the livecd
[06:34] <GFXstyLER> no
[06:34] <FTTP> azeem yes
[06:34] <azeem> FTTP: it's different in the real thing
[06:34] <FTTP> azeem ok so the livecd does that tho right?
[06:34] <azeem> FTTP: yes
[06:35] <FTTP> azeem is that a bug or just how livecd works?
[06:35] <azeem> FTTP: that's how it works
[06:35] <xoxoxo> i have one more question: how about ubuntu kernel? vanilla or you patch it with smt?
[06:35] <FTTP> azeem seems kind of off logoff means shutdown tho :P
[06:35] <rasher> xoxoxo: congratulations, you just did what 10 people were trying to tell you is a bad idea
[06:35] <FTTP> azeem but i can install it now cause i like it :)
[06:35] <azeem> FTTP: which makes sense for livecds
[06:35] <FTTP> so i dont need livecd
[06:35] <FTTP> :)
[06:36] <xoxoxo> rasher, i got it. that is a little confused for the first time user ;)
[06:36] <GFXstyLER> are you installing warty or the beta?
[06:36] <FTTP> azeem well it should just be changed to shutdown, not logoff
[06:36] <azeem> FTTP: yeah, mabye
[06:36] <rasher> xoxoxo: but you shouldn't have done it....
[06:36] <azeem> eh
[06:36] <FTTP> azeem just needs the text changed to shutdown, its not really a bug i guess
[06:36] <FTTP> just wording :P
[06:36] <xoxoxo> rasher, not done what?
[06:36] <azeem> that's still a bug
[06:36] <FTTP> azeem so should i report it?
[06:36] <FTTP> lol
[06:36] <rasher> xoxoxo: changed the root password.. why did you do it?
[06:36] <xoxoxo> change root password?
[06:36] <azeem> just a minor one
[06:36] <azeem> FTTP: why not? Sounds reasonable to me
[06:36] <xoxoxo> rasher, why not?
[06:37] <azeem> rasher: 18:32 < xoxoxo> ok guys, i changed my password now
[06:37] <FTTP> azeem ill report it why not :P thats what linux is all about right ? :)
[06:37] <xoxoxo> what is bad with changing the rot password?
[06:37] <rasher> xoxoxo: you're not supposed to use the root account directly, only through sudo
[06:37] <azeem> xoxoxo: however, you are free to do whatever you want
[06:37] <Kamion> he's allowed to if he wants to
[06:37] <FTTP> azeem ill see if its there already
[06:37] <rasher> Of course
[06:37] <GFXstyLER> and why exactly shouldnt i use the root ?
[06:38] <azeem> GFXstyLER: you should only use your super-powers when you need them
[06:38] <GFXstyLER> noone except me is using this pc so that wouldnt be the point
[06:38] <azeem> having root shells open allude to using it for non-admin work
[06:38] <xoxoxo> hmm... so the default user can use sudo to run any privilege command?
[06:38] <rasher> This is all about a) best practices  b) personal preference
[06:38] <xoxoxo> is that the default configuration?
[06:38] <Friczy> GFXstyLER: dont run any program as root if it is not necessary
[06:38] <rasher> xoxoxo: yes, after typing your password
[06:38] <azeem> xoxoxo: yes
[06:38] <GFXstyLER> i dont use them much but i would like to use root instead of sudo, because i learned it like that
[06:38] <Friczy> GFXstyLER: if your program has a remote exploitable hole, then all of your system can be rooted
[06:38] <xoxoxo> ok you genious guys. now how about ubuntu kernel?
[06:39] <FTTP> in windows xp dont u also have to put in an admin password?
[06:39] <azeem> GFXstyLER: you just use Linux for a week though, right?
[06:39] <Kamion> xoxoxo: if you want to see the patches we've applied, 'apt-get source linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>' and look in debian/patches/
[06:39] <GFXstyLER> i used it for a week now
[06:39] <FTTP> with su........ are u forced to put in an admin password?
[06:39] <FTTP> or is there no admin password on default install?
[06:39] <Kamion> su asks for the root password
[06:39] <Kamion> the root password is unset by default
[06:39] <GFXstyLER> but i will keep it ;) no need for windows anymore
[06:40] <xoxoxo> Kamion, i am getting it
[06:40] <FTTP> kamion:  people really should add the root
[06:40] <Friczy> I consider changing my opsys from debian to ubuntu. which is better? to dist-upgrade (from sarge) or reinstall from scratch?
[06:40] <Kamion> FTTP: why?
[06:40] <Treenaks> FTTP: no, they should not
[06:40] <azeem> GFXstyLER: what I mean is that you should be easily able to change your habits still :)
[06:40] <FTTP> kamion:  I remember back with corel linux this was a big debate they did it too
[06:40] <Treenaks> FTTP: read http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[06:40] <FTTP> thanks treenaks
[06:40] <Kamion> FTTP: we made this the default for a reason; people are certainly entitled to change it, but we think the default is appropriate
[06:40] <xoxoxo> anyway should i customize the source.list for better speed? i am in Japan now
[06:40] <azeem> FTTP: Lindows just had people *be Root* by default
[06:40] <azeem> FTTP: that's a huge difference
[06:40] <FTTP> azeem :  thats worse :P
[06:40] <xoxoxo> should be better to use the "local" repository?
[06:41] <GFXstyLER> azeem yes youre right
[06:41] <Kamion> xoxoxo: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[06:41] <FTTP> kamion i guess we will see how it plays out :) with windows tho upon install u are asked for an admin password (for xp pro at least)
[06:42] <FTTP> and the admin password is the equivalent of root
[06:42] <xoxoxo> great. 2 bad there is no japan mirror
[06:42] <FTTP> kamion having no default set to root could be a security risk tho
[06:42] <Kamion> FTTP: we're not trying to be a copy of Windows; for other commercial comparisons, look to Mac OS X
[06:42] <FTTP> kamion how does macos x do it?
[06:42] <Kamion> FTTP: uh, no, the root account is *locked out* not open
[06:42] <daniels> FTTP: ... the way we do, incidentally ...
[06:42] <FTTP> oh
[06:42] <FTTP> ok
[06:42] <GFXstyLER> should i install an antivirus prog for linux?
[06:43] <FTTP> i never used mac os x
[06:43] <Friczy> GFXstyLER: if you use only linux then not necessary
[06:43] <xoxoxo> Kamion, i got source package, but where is debian/patches?
[06:43] <FTTP> daniels what is the upside and downside then ?
[06:43] <cardador> GFXstyLER: only if your linux box is a internet server for windows boxes
[06:43] <GFXstyLER> nope it isnt
[06:43] <Kamion> xoxoxo: inside the directory that just got unpacked under your current directory
[06:43] <FTTP> daniels: im prolly confused as to the issues involved
[06:43] <xoxoxo> Kamion, no. there is no such directory
[06:44] <FTTP> i know your no windows........
[06:44] <daniels> FTTP: upside -- sudo scales better than telling people a root password they're likely to forget anyway, it remembers stuff, it has an audit trail, it's more fine-grained, people don't do stuff like try to log in as root, you have to guess the account name *and* the password, not just the root password of 'superman' or whatever
[06:44] <Kamion> FTTP: we generally regard Windows to be a crawling security nightmare horror beast and especially avoid borrowing from it where anything to do with user privileges are concerned
[06:44] <Kamion> xoxoxo: it'll have unpacked a linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>-<IP_ADDRESS> directory
[06:44] <xoxoxo> Kamion, yes i saw that
[06:44] <daniels> FTTP: if we shipped with a wide-open root account, there'd be no point setting user passwords ;)
[06:44] <Kamion> xoxoxo: ... so look in there?
[06:44] <FTTP> kamion i agree with you
[06:45] <FTTP> daniels sounds fine....... if it works for mac os x then its a concept which works :)
[06:45] <xoxoxo> Kamion, mainly about driver patching?
[06:45] <FTTP> i guess ill fool around with it and see which of the 2 i like better :)
[06:46] <Kamion> xoxoxo: mostly, yeah, see debian/changelog too
[06:46] <FTTP> i never really used it but i remember people with corel linux were complaining their was no root account
[06:46] <xoxoxo> now should i get 2.6.9 from kernel.org, and compile myself?
[06:46] <FTTP> cause it was a security risk blah blah
[06:46] <cardador> daniels: i just want to thank about xorg and xcompmgr. but if i enable xcompmgr with all the shadows, fades, etc, X locks after a while.
[06:47] <daniels> cardador: thanks -- and yeah, that will likely happen
[06:47] <azeem> xoxoxo: why?
[06:47] <daniels> cardador: do you have two machines?
[06:47] <azeem> xoxoxo: what's wrong with <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:47] <azeem> ?
[06:47] <Kamion> xoxoxo: entirely up to you
[06:47] <cardador> daniels: yes
[06:47] <xoxoxo> azeem, why what? 2.6.9 has smt 2.6.8 doesnt, right?
[06:47] <FTTP> SecurityWhile there are various advantages and disadvantages to this approach, compared with the traditional superuser model, neither is clearly superior overall
[06:47] <FTTP> this article explains it all
[06:47] <FTTP> thanks
[06:47] <daniels> cardador: well, if you want to install xserver-xorg-dbg and run that, you could log in from the other, attach gdb, and see where it hung if you wanted to be really, really useful
[06:47] <cardador> daniels: but only one with a good gfx card
[06:47] <azeem> xoxoxo: maybe, yeah
[06:47] <FTTP> yeah su is fine
[06:47] <azeem> xoxoxo: *shrug*, it's up to you
[06:47] <FTTP> its easy to add root
[06:47] <FTTP> its in the faq :P
[06:48] <cardador> daniels: ok ill try that
[06:48] <xoxoxo> azeem, that is for sure man. kernel changes very fast these day
[06:48] <daniels> cardador: thanks a lot :)
[06:48] <FTTP> it would be nice if root account addition could be in gnome tho
[06:48] <daniels> cardador: that would help us debug it
[06:48] <daniels> FTTP: ... why?
[06:48] <FTTP> daniels:  No i mean to add it
[06:48] <daniels> FTTP: why should normal people need to do it?
[06:48] <daniels> FTTP: yeah, but why?
[06:49] <xoxoxo> azeem, besides you must not heard about some kernel security bugs recently?
[06:49] <FTTP> daniels:  in case someone wants to log in, since ultimately someone wont have to use the textmode if possible
[06:49] <xoxoxo> you better upgrade your kernel asap
[06:49] <daniels> FTTP: why would people ever want to *log* *in* as root?
[06:49] <FTTP> daniels isnt it better to add functionality for everything for the gui so textmode isnt needed?
[06:49] <daniels> yeah, but only for things that make sense
[06:49] <Kamion> xoxoxo: we backport security patches to our kernels
[06:49] <FTTP> daniels:  i mean to add the root account
[06:49] <daniels> we could add a gnome applet to do rm -rf / also, but that isn't so generically useful :P
[06:50] <daniels> FTTP: i know you do, but I don't know why people would want to activate the root account
[06:50] <xoxoxo> Kamion, so what is the recommend kernel version now?
[06:50] <daniels> FTTP: instead of using sudo for all their management
[06:50] <cardador> daniels: wouldnt the new nvidia driver be helpfull on hoary?
[06:50] <FTTP> daniels:  So your assuming that your userbase wouldnt be using root right?
[06:50] <FTTP> daniels:  No i mean sudo
[06:50] <FTTP> sorry i got mixed up
[06:50] <daniels> FTTP: sudo is activated by default
[06:50] <Eludias> I'm thinking about switching to Ubuntu; does Ubuntu support Java-in-browser out of the 'box'?
[06:50] <Kamion> xoxoxo: depends on your point of view; we won't be changing the kernel version in Warty, instead we'll be backporting security patches to it
[06:50] <FTTP> is there a gnome front end to sudo?
[06:50] <daniels> what do you mean, 'gnome front end'?
[06:50] <ilmari> bonobo: java
[06:50] <bonobo> read the very good java wiki -> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[06:50] <FTTP> do you have to go into text to use sudo?
[06:50] <Friczy> FTTP: yes. from the terminal :D
[06:50] <Kamion> gksudo
[06:50] <xoxoxo> Kamion, so what package i should upgrade to now?
[06:51] <daniels> FTTP: if you want to launch an app as root, no
[06:51] <daniels> that's what gksudo is for
[06:51] <daniels> pops up a little dialog box asking for your password
[06:51] <Kamion> xoxoxo: if you're updating/upgrading regularly from warty-security you should have no further concerns
[06:51] <FTTP> ahhh there is gksudo
[06:51] <FTTP> ok
[06:51] <FTTP> thats what i wanted to know :P
[06:51] <Friczy> I consider changing my opsys from debian to ubuntu. which is better? to dist-upgrade (from sarge) or reinstall from scratch?
[06:51] <bobalien> has anyone run into the problem with Firefox not accessing the web properly the first couple of times you try to load a page - I've read the forum posts about ipv6, but when i disable that I can't get internet at all - also, the system clock sync at startup hangs, probably due to the same problem
[06:51] <xoxoxo> Kamion, i suppose that "apt-get upgrade" is enough ?
[06:52] <Kamion> xoxoxo: for warty-security, should be, yeah
[06:52] <FTTP> daniels and thats part of ubuntu right?
[06:52] <FTTP> or i guess u can apt-get it :P
[06:52] <bobalien> i've got a broadcom 4400 ethernt card, which i got an RPM for off broadcom's site, alien'd to a .deb and ran, but i'm a newb and not sure if that's all you need to install drivers
[06:52] <Kamion> Friczy: upgrading from sarge may be possible for experts but we can't support it, since sarge hasn't released yet
[06:52] <xoxoxo> Kamion, how can i upgrade just security fixes only?
[06:52] <GeosB> calc news
[06:52] <Kamion> Friczy: it'll be a partial downgrade
[06:52] <Friczy> Kamion: I consider myself as 'expert' :)
[06:53] <Kamion> Friczy: then you already know the answer, by definition. :-)
[06:53] <daniels> FTTP: no, it's a part of Ubuntu, and when you need root privileges for configuring network/timezone/whatever, it prompts for your password
[06:53] <Friczy> ok. thx :)
[06:53] <Kamion> xoxoxo: warty isn't changing in any other way ...
[06:53] <Friczy> I still not decided :)
[06:53] <FTTP> daniels gotcha
[06:53] <FTTP> daniels sounds like u have it figured out nicely :)
[06:53] <Kamion> Friczy: also see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WartyWarthogUpgradeNotes
[06:53] <FTTP> daniels see im unfamiliar with the concept of su
[06:54] <Friczy> Kamion: yes, I read it already
[06:54] <azeem> FTTP: it's 'sudo', not 'su'
[06:54] <FTTP> im used to those distros which force u to create a root account
[06:54] <FTTP> i mean sudo
[06:54] <FTTP> typo
[06:54] <Friczy> one side: if i install from scratch, lots of my setting will lose. but perhaps it will be the better :)))
[06:54] <xoxoxo> Kamion, what is recommend dpkg frontend in ubuntu?
[06:54] <xoxoxo> synaptic or smt else?
[06:54] <azeem> xoxoxo: synaptic
[06:54] <cardador> daniels: wouldnt the new nvidia driver be helpfull on debuging xorg? i say this because i am enabling render acceleration.
[06:55] <daniels> oh, you're using the binary driver?
[06:55] <cardador> daniels: yes, 61.16, but 66 is already on debian unstable.
[06:56] <cardador> daniels: i am using the one from ubuntu repository.
[06:56] <FTTP> daniels:  livecd has a different autodetection mechanism than the regular one right?
[06:57] <Kamion> FTTP: yes, in Warty; unifying them is a goal for Hoary
[06:57] <FTTP> kamion gotcha
[06:57] <FTTP> which one is better?
[06:57] <lexi> hi!
[06:57] <FTTP> or just different
[06:57] <Kamion> FTTP: mixed
[06:58] <Kamion> FTTP: which is one reason we want to unify them :)
[06:58] <daniels> cardador: i fear that your backtraces may end up in '#0 at ????????'
[06:58] <FTTP> kamion:  gotcha.........
[06:58] <FTTP> kamion so u mean combine the best of both?
[06:58] <Kamion> FTTP: yep
[06:58] <daniels> cardador: but it's worth a shot
[06:58] <FTTP> sounds good
[06:58] <Kamion> basically move to hotplug but brush up the kernel's device tables a lot
[06:58] <Friczy> Kamion: do you plan to make full CD set (not only install)?
[06:58] <FTTP> so hotplug is what the autodetector is called?
[06:58] <daniels> Kamion: o, I am weeping for the loss of discover1-data's format
[06:58] <xoxoxo> anybody knows why i cannot "apt-get install kdevelop" ?
[06:59] <xoxoxo> there is no kde in rep?
[06:59] <FTTP> http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/
[06:59] <FTTP> found it
[06:59] <FTTP> ill read up on it, thanks :)
[06:59] <FTTP> u folks are amazing
[06:59] <xoxoxo> so what to do now?
[06:59] <cardador> daniels: ill try that at home, right now im at work (also ubuntu :) )
[06:59] <FTTP> everything is figured out
[06:59] <lexi-> has ubuntu some kind of design/graphics team?
[06:59] <FTTP> even hotplugging
[06:59] <FTTP> :P
[06:59] <Kamion> Friczy: what do you mean?
[07:00] <Friczy> Kamion: i want to recommend ubuntu to a friend who has not internet access
[07:00] <Kamion> FTTP: the installer currently uses a mix of various stuff
[07:00] <FTTP> kamion gotcha
[07:00] <xoxoxo> Kamion and azeem: how can i install kdevelop?
[07:00] <Kamion> Friczy: oh, no, we've no plans to do full CDs of all of main
[07:00] <FTTP> source code is open right? :)
[07:00] <FTTP> heh
[07:00] <Kamion> FTTP: quite
[07:00] <FTTP> i can look thru it
[07:00] <Friczy> Kamion: ok :( thx for the info
[07:00] <daniels> cardador: good luck
[07:00] <Kamion> uh, by that I mean "quite so", not "sort of"
[07:00] <azeem> xoxoxo: dunno
[07:00] <FTTP> i know
[07:01] <azeem> I do not use KDE
[07:01] <FTTP> source is good :)
[07:01] <lexi-> hello?
[07:01] <xoxoxo> looks like there is no kde in ubuntu repository?
[07:01] <Kamion> lexi-: couple of people work on it, we have somebody on contract doing design IIRC
[07:01] <azeem> lexi-: not really, AFAIK
[07:01] <Kamion> xoxoxo: universe
[07:01] <azeem> lexi-: what Kamion said
[07:01] <xoxoxo> Kamion, what is that universe?
[07:02] <Kamion> see the FAQs on the website please
[07:03] <Kamion> About Ubuntu -> Components is probably a good place to start
[07:03] <lexi-> Kamion, azeem: on contract? the thing is that i would like to join such a group
[07:04] <Kamion> lexi-: mail ideas to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I guess
[07:05] <lexi-> the ubunto logo could need some finish, the font face is rather ugly..
[07:05] <lexi-> *ubuntu
[07:05] <azeem> isn't it SVG?
[07:05] <azeem> what's ugly about it?
[07:05] <lexi-> the font hasn't good proportions
[07:05] <lexi-> the t + b
[07:06] <lexi-> and the u ;)
[07:06] <Kamion> you could also file bugs against ubuntu-artwork
[07:06] <xoxoxo> Kamion, i looked at the faq. it said smt about universe component, but nothing else? there is no link to "universe" component
[07:06] <rasher> the vertical line in the t looks a bit odd imho, can't see anything wrong with the rest
[07:06] <Kamion> xoxoxo: 18:03 < Kamion> About Ubuntu -> Components is probably a good place to start
[07:06] <littlegreenman> can someone help me with setting the sound in my system?
[07:06] <littlegreenman> i just checked in xp, mp3 files play fine
[07:07] <azeem> littlegreenman: ubuntu does not play .mp3 files by default, AFAIK
[07:07] <littlegreenman> but i don't know how to check in ubuntu to see if my sound card is configured... etc...
[07:07] <J-jayz-Z> moin
[07:07] <littlegreenman> azeem how do i configure it?
[07:07] <J-jayz-Z> lol
[07:07] <azeem> littlegreenman: see the website, I dunno
[07:07] <J-jayz-Z> hello @ all
[07:07] <thrift> I came in here yesterday, because I was having memory problems and switched to the k7 kernel due to them, looks like I'm still getting them, check ftp://<IP_ADDRESS>/Screenshots/Memory.png to see what I mean.  Anyone know what to do to solve this?
[07:07] <littlegreenman> azeem, thanks...
[07:07] <lexi-> Kamion: so if i work on it, should i just send it to ubuntu-devel?
[07:08] <Kamion> lexi-: reasonable place to start
[07:08] <lexi-> website should be redone, too ;)
[07:08] <J-jayz-Z> is anybody here working with lilo ???
[07:08] <Tyche> How do you think a Compaq DeskPro Celeron 500 w/ 196MB be for a small web server?
[07:08] <Tyche> Running Ubuntu of course.
[07:09] <rasher> Tyche: depends entirely of the scale of the sites hosted :)
[07:09] <lexi-> does someone know where that svg logo resides?
[07:09] <rasher> Tyche: it could be way overkill, or too little
[07:09] <rasher> lexi-: it's in the wiki somewhere
[07:09] <|0__0|> hi asl.
[07:09] <J-jayz-Z> hi
[07:10] <Kamion> lexi-: several of us detest the website :)
[07:10] <Tyche> Really all it will be doing is hosting a single site or 2 running a mambo server...no high scale stugg.
[07:10] <Tyche> err, stuff.
[07:10] <azeem> lexi-: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Artwork
[07:10] <|0__0|> I appreciate the earth-tone themes of Ubuntu, but I think it would be better if it had some nudity.
[07:11] <azeem> |0__0|: hah
[07:11] <xoxoxo> Kamion, i modified sources.list and update "universe" now.
[07:11] <|0__0|> azeem: also, not letting people log in as root is a SECURITY RISK
[07:11] <|0__0|> so, now that I'm all caught up
[07:11] <J-jayz-Z> i nned help to edit the /etc/lilo.conf, i heve ubuntu and yoper linux on my harddisk but i don know how to edit the file for changing between yoper and ubuntu because of the boot image of ubuntu...
[07:12] <azeem> J-jayz-Z: ubuntu uses grub, not lilo
[07:12] <J-jayz-Z> azeem: i know
[07:12] <azeem> so ask the yoper guys about lilo :)
[07:12] <ploggin> hi
[07:12] <J-jayz-Z> but i do not know *some* things about grub
[07:13] <ploggin> anyone got a radeon graphic card?
[07:13] <ogra> hi everybody !!!
[07:13] <|0__0|> azeem: I think he really wants to configure grub for dual-oot
[07:13] <lexi-> how can i get wiki attachments?
[07:13] <J-jayz-Z> and i like lilo but also ubunto, so i am working with lilo and ubuntu :)
[07:13] <|0__0|> oh
[07:13] <azeem> |0__0|: 1:0 for me :)
[07:13] <|0__0|> yeah, looks like, azeem
[07:14] <ogra> the current issue of german "linux user" SUPPLYS A UBUNTU WARTY CD !!!!!!
[07:14] <J-jayz-Z> ;)
[07:14] <FTTP> i want to give them out to friends
[07:14] <thrift> Did anyone take a look at that screeny?  I've been up for under 24 hours and am using >325M RAM.  It'll be up to a G by tommorow night probably.
[07:14] <ploggin> i need help installing my ATI Radeon graphic card
[07:14] <ogra> horaaay
[07:14] <J-jayz-Z> ogra: I know, what you think, from where i have the ubuntu disk?;)
[07:14] <FTTP> i can get alot of ubuntu users :)
[07:14] <Gwildor_> ploggin, we all do
[07:14] <xoxoxo> Kamion, by glancing at debian/patches, i think that the latest kernel source code from ubuntu doesnt fix the lastest "ELF" security bug, right?
[07:15] <FTTP> livecd is great tho cause i can show people they dont need windows
[07:15] <xoxoxo> i dont see such patch
[07:15] <lexi-> Kamion: how can i download attachments from the wiki?
[07:15] <Kamion> xoxoxo: I wouldn't know; if it doesn't I shouldn't imagine it'd take long
[07:15] <lhb> ok, just to confirm.... should i use the k7 kernel for my amd xp?
[07:15] <thrift> lhb: yes
[07:16] <ogra> J-jayz-Z: i was waiting for this.....the german news didnt seem to recognize us at all, no msg on heise (and i know a bunch of ppl have asked for one)
[07:16] <azeem> lexi-: it might be that the .svg versions of the logo are not up on the wiki yet, I read about problems there
[07:16] <lhb> thrift: cheers
[07:16] <azeem> ogra: Debian has bribed Heise to not report on Ubuntu
[07:16] <azeem> (or was that SuSE? Can't remember)
[07:16] <ogra> aee: by which reason ?
[07:16] <xoxoxo> Kamion, the kdevelop from universe is very old: 2.1 (??) the last one is 3.1.1. how to get the new version of kdevelop?
[07:16] <ogra> azeem
[07:17] <azeem> xoxoxo: compile it yourself
[07:17] <lexi-> azeem: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuArtwork/view?searchterm=logo but i can't fid how to get that crap
[07:17] <J-jayz-Z> ogra: yes.but it is very good for beginners.normally anybody of the beginning is using mandrake, suse and _maybe_ debian...
[07:17] <J-jayz-Z> thats it..
[07:17] <xoxoxo> azeem, should i get it from unstable repository of debian?
[07:17] <azeem> lexi-: yeah, it may not be up yet
[07:17] <azeem> xoxoxo: I can't recommend that
[07:18] <thrift> xoxoxo: I use debian repository, they have 3.1.0
[07:18] <azeem> it's an option, of course
[07:18] <xoxoxo> hmmm...
[07:18] <azeem> ogra: I was just joking
[07:18] <ogra> *g*
[07:18] <lhb> thrift: is apt-get going to update grub?
[07:18] <xoxoxo> thrift, you mix debian and ubuntu for kdevelp? is that fine?
[07:18] <FTTP> ubuntu just started and it looks like its got significant activity and development :)
[07:18] <thrift> xoxoxo: don't know, maybe that's why I have memory issues
[07:18] <xoxoxo> i heard that mixing stuffs may cause trouble
[07:18] <FTTP> i admire ubuntu :)
[07:18] <thrift> lhb: yes
[07:19] <xoxoxo> thrift, how to know that you got memory problem?
[07:19] <J-jayz-Z> ok, i am awy, C U guys
[07:19] <rasher> FTTP: it's been underways for a while
[07:19] <lexi-> fsck it, i come back when you have a new website
[07:19] <FTTP> the communities of the other distros that are smaller have life sucked out of em
[07:19] <FTTP> for user friendly ones
[07:20] <FTTP> rasher:  I just heard of ubuntu recently
[07:20] <thrift> xoxoxo: I have a whole install of kde from debian. it's work flawlessly, but I had memory issues before I added the unsupported repositoried I think... Check the screeny: ftp://<IP_ADDRESS>/Screenshots/Memory.png
[07:20] <azeem> FTTP: I guess life is going to be hard for user-friendly Dbeian-based distros in the near future, yes
[07:20] <FTTP> azeem:  No thats not what i was saying
[07:20] <azeem> FTTP: so what you are saying? =)
[07:20] <FTTP> azeem:  just saying that many of the smaller user friendly distros never really got off the ground
[07:20] <rasher> FTTP: yeah, but it's been a nameless effort for a while actually
[07:20] <lexi-> Is there some WebCVS?
[07:20] <FTTP> azeem and they stopped being activly developed as much
[07:20] <azeem> FTTP: well, some of them are Debian-based...
[07:21] <FTTP> azeem yep
[07:21] <azeem> FTTP: the difference is, they did not start off with 30 top-notch developers working full time on them
[07:21] <krism> this question isn't ubuntu specific; i'm not sure where to start looking, and sinc e i'm running ubuntu.... ;) : i have several email accounts all forwarding thier mail to my main account. using Pine, i want to set the "reply-to" header to that of the email address it was sent to. any ideas?
[07:21] <FTTP> azeem:  Ubuntu has 30?
[07:21] <krism> (e.g. where to start searching.. )
[07:21] <FTTP> azeem:  All due to shuttleworth?  :)
[07:21] <|0__0|> krism: I know how to do it with mutt, but not pine
[07:21] <FTTP> thats awesome
[07:21] <azeem> FTTP: eh, not sure, but that's the right ballpark
[07:21] <|0__0|> krism: however, I also know how to make mutt use pine's keybindings
[07:21] <krism> |0__0| : how do you do it with mutt?
[07:21] <FTTP> azeem yeah cause shuttleworth has bucks so he can hire
[07:21] <|0__0|> krism: you use a send-hook
[07:22] <azeem> FTTP: in the meantime, Ubuntu has more, but they started out with around 30 I beleive
[07:22] <FTTP> azeem:  Lycoris had potential........ i think its redhat based ?
[07:22] <lexi-> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuArtwork -- here i got it
[07:22] <Kamion> Canonical has 30-odd employees, but not all of those are working on Ubuntu
[07:22] <FTTP> azeem:  Im not sure what lycoris was based off of
[07:22] <krism> |0__0| thanks :) will search on that :)
[07:22] <Kamion> the distribution team is more like 10-15 (don't recall offhand)
[07:22] <FTTP> but lycoris tried what ubuntu is.........
[07:22] <ogra> Kamion: hey :)
[07:23] <FTTP> similar concept
[07:23] <thrift> FTTP: I think it was debian based also, maybe via caldera
[07:23] <FTTP> thirt:  i remember speaking to the developers on lycoris and it looked like a new distro that would take off,  but then it became non free, blah blah
[07:24] <thrift> FTTP: I don't know a whole lot about it, but I think they are still around....not quite lindows though
[07:24] <FTTP> thrift they used to have it that you could freely download from the website, then the current ones arent plus it uses old caldera code, blah blah...... ubuntu 1st release was better than lycoris was
[07:24] <azeem> Kamion: there are around 10-15 DDs, however, another bunch of non-DDs develop as well
[07:24] <|0__0|> krism: also check out http://zork.net/pub/pine
[07:24] <FTTP> when i tried ubuntu i was literally surprised
[07:24] <|0__0|> krism: it's a script that you chmod +x, and it runs mutt with several config options set
[07:24] <azeem> oh, anyway
[07:25] <FTTP> at this rate ubuntu's next release will be amazing
[07:25] <xoxoxo> looks like ubuntu uses udev, doesnt it?
[07:25] <ogra> xoxoxo: yep
[07:25] <ogra> xoxoxo: it does
[07:25] <|0__0|> FTTP: and at this rate, by 2050 Ubuntu will not even need a computer to operate!
[07:25] <FTTP> i keep switching from distro to distro for userfriendly distros
[07:25] <thrift> FTTP: I believe you, I just got ubuntu installed like 2 weeks ago, I was impressed for not hearing much about it.  Lycoris seemed to me like a noobish distro though.  Ubuntu autodetects my software raid, that's not noobish.
[07:26] <lexi-> how do people get cotracted by ubuntu??
[07:26] <FTTP> thrift:  yeah impressive
[07:26] <FTTP> lexi:  detected all my hardware from day1
[07:26] <azeem> thrift: that might be a feature of the Debian-Installer though, not sure
[07:26] <FTTP> lexi:  Lycoris never worked right on my system actually
[07:26] <FTTP> lexi:  So yeah its better already
[07:26] <thrift> FTTP: This memory leak is my only issue right now(my nvidia card didn't get set up correctly on install, it thought I had an Sis(my agp is Sis))
[07:27] <FTTP> errr thrift actually
[07:27] <thrift> azeem: I attached raid after install
[07:27] <FTTP> thrift that is nice :)
[07:27] <azeem> thrift: heh :)
[07:27] <FTTP> thrift:  Debian is a great codebase, nice and stable
[07:27] <FTTP> thrift:  Thats why i loved stormix
[07:27] <FTTP> at the time
[07:27] <FTTP> all the distros i like go poof
[07:28] <FTTP> ubuntu stays around and ill be a happy camper :)
[07:28] <FTTP> its better than stormix was
[07:28] <thrift> FTTP: never used stormix, but I moved over here from gentoo, at let me tell you, so much more productive when packages aren't broken all the time and integration is good.  I wish they had more packages in the default repositories though, it's pretty constricting.
[07:28] <FTTP> thrift im sort of the user looking for a desktop user so gentoo wasnt for me
[07:28] <xoxoxo> after 30mins playing, i think ubuntu looks great ;-)
[07:28] <|0__0|> FTTP: Ubuntu is built by austro-african spacemen, and their average life-span is 76 years!!!!
[07:28] <FTTP> gentoo too involved
[07:29] <xoxoxo> now if it supports the latest kde and stuffs better...
[07:29] <ogra> xoxoxo: after 2 months it looks still great ;)
[07:30] <thrift> Gentoo was great, but packages were *always* broken, desktops needed massive time to configure it was annoying.  Ubuntu might not have all the same advantages, but it's definately better
[07:30] <xoxoxo> anyway, what is the recommend cd burner ?
[07:30] <FTTP> looks like ubuntu got loads of press
[07:30] <rasher> xoxoxo: using nautilus is one way
[07:30] <xoxoxo> does that work with 2.6? since i heard bad things about cdburner on 2.6 kernel
[07:30] <FTTP> i did a google news search for ubuntu, its all over
[07:30] <|0__0|> the problem with gentoo is that the only things you need to have optimized for your system are: 1) Kernel 2) libc 3) any high-end number-crunching apps
[07:30] <Friczy> can I get a list from somewhere about which packages are in which components?
[07:30] <|0__0|> debian/ubuntu provides 1 for sue
[07:30] <thrift> How about this: Is there even an audio cd burner in the default repositorys
[07:30] <|0__0|> and I think there's some mechanism for auto-detection of #2
[07:31] <ogra> xoxoxo: works great for data
[07:31] <|0__0|> and #3 is most likely compiled from source as a special case anyway
[07:31] <thrift> xoxoxo: ya it is great for data
[07:31] <Kamion> azeem: most of the non-Debian developers are working on other things
[07:31] <|0__0|> Friczy: components?
[07:31] <xoxoxo> well, how to access to that cdburner?
[07:31] <xoxoxo> i dont see it from the menu?
[07:32] <Friczy> |0__0|: yes i mean main, universe and so on
[07:32] <ogra> xoxoxo: put in a empty cd ;) it starts itself
[07:32] <|0__0|> Friczy: there are files in /var/lib/apt/lists/
[07:32] <thrift> |0__0|: it is certainly snappy, but I don't think it's due to being configured for your proccessor.  You're assumption would also advise compiling gnome...not fun.
[07:32] <|0__0|> corresponding to your sources
[07:32] <xoxoxo> ok. bedtime now. see you again.
[07:32] <Friczy> |0__0|: yes, but I don't have ubuntu installed
[07:33] <Friczy> |0__0|: i still use debian
[07:33] <xoxoxo> thank you all. you are all genious guys
[07:33] <xoxoxo> ubutu has great community ;-)
[07:33] <xoxoxo> good night
[07:33] <|0__0|> thrift: no, I'm saying that you don't get very good performance benefits except for from compiling the kernel, libc, and any scientific apps
[07:33] <|0__0|> thrift: recompiling gnome doesn't get you very much at all, since it's mostly I/O stuff
[07:33] <ogra> xoxo: night :)
[07:33] <|0__0|> Friczy: you can always grab the files from the sources
[07:34] <|0__0|> Friczy: just hit http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ and browse around
[07:34] <|0__0|> find the Packages file you want
[07:34] <thrift> |0__0| : I think that's arguable.  A gentoo user would probably flip out with a million reasons his gnome is better due to that.  I think that ubuntu does *feel* faster though, and that's all I care about there.  Gentoo's main advantage though of portage was the huge amount of apps that were there, and especially the nonfree ones
[07:34] <Friczy> |0__0|: ok. Thx.
[07:35] <|0__0|> Friczy: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/
[07:35] <Tyche> Saving nick password for x-chat...where is that?
[07:35] <|0__0|> oh hey
[07:35] <|0__0|> what's multiverse?
[07:35] <|0__0|> I knew about universe
[07:35] <ogra> Tyche: ctrl-s
[07:35] <|0__0|> but what's multiverse?
[07:35] <Tyche> ogra: Under connect command?
[07:35] <ogra> |0__0|: non-free
[07:36] <|0__0|> ahhhh
[07:36] <will_> evening ppl, how can you temorarily enable SU in Nautilus to copy files to a protected DIR?
[07:36] <|0__0|> ogra: are you at all related to augra from The Dark Crystal?
[07:36] <ogra> Tyche: in german its called "serverlist"
[07:37] <ogra> |0__0|: beyond that i've seen the movie as a teen i dont think so ;)
[07:37] <|0__0|> ogra: pity.  I was hoping you could pop your eye out and everything.
[07:37] <ogra> lol
[07:37] <ogra> will_: dont use filemanagers as root
[07:38] <thrift> ogra: why not?
[07:38] <|0__0|> ogra: I think he wants sudo to pop up when he tries an operation that gets him permission denied stuff
[07:38] <ogra> will_: better use the commandline for such tasks....
[07:38] <|0__0|> but I'm 0:1 today
[07:38] <|0__0|> so who knows
[07:38] <ogra> will_: using nautilus as root will damage certain stuff....
[07:38] <|0__0|> yeah
[07:38] <rasher> |0__0|: which, incidentally is a great idea. Go implement!
[07:38] <thrift> really?
[07:39] <|0__0|> running big X apps as root is certain to break your system
[07:39] <Chibi> o.o
[07:39] <|0__0|> eventually nothing will work unless you do it as root
[07:39] <|0__0|> and your life will be pain
[07:39] <will_> ogra: I need to copy about 5 dirs quickly to /usr/local
[07:39] <binarydigit> is running hoary like running sarge?
[07:39] <|0__0|> that's why it's so great that ubuntu disables the root account
[07:39] <ogra> it will change certain file permissons of config stuff
[07:39] <cardador> binarydigit: sid
[07:39] <rasher> binarydigit: it's more or less like running sid
[07:40] <|0__0|> will_: cp -a dir1 dir2 dir3 dir4 dir5 /usr/local/
[07:40] <binarydigit> ah so its best to stick with warty
[07:40] <|0__0|> sudo cp -a dir1 dir2 dir3 dir4 dir5 /usr/local/
[07:40] <|0__0|> that is
[07:40] <thrift> ogra: shouldn't cofing be on a per user basis via .files?
[07:40] <ogra> will_: cp -a /source/dir /dest/dir
[07:40] <thrift> copying*
[07:40] <will_> thanks guys!
[07:40] <thrift> config even
[07:40] <ogra> thrift: yep and belong to the user.....
[07:40] <ogra> thrift: and tha exactly is the prob here
[07:41] <thrift> ogra: each .files belong to users home dir, so how could root hurt anything by running it's own nautilus
[07:41] <will_> how do you show only dirs with LS?
[07:41] <|0__0|> ls -d
[07:41] <ogra> thrift: afterwards they belong root ;)
[07:41] <thrift> ogra: afterwards what belong to root?
[07:41] <ogra> will_: yep in small letters
[07:41] <ogra> thrift: the configs....
[07:41] <thrift> ogra: root's configs do
[07:41] <thrift> ogra: not any other user
[07:42] <shingokii> Hi, has anyone set up freevo on ubuntu?
[07:42] <will_> ogra: i mean how do i list ONLY dirs with ls?
[07:42] <ogra> thrift: if you run nautilus as root and it writes to a config file, the owner  changes....same with mozilla
[07:42] <StarScream> hi all, is there a gui tool that i can use for pppd that uses pppoatm ?
[07:43] <StarScream> will_, ls -d ?
[07:43] <thrift> ogra: root's config files are in /root/.xxxxx whereas a users is in /home/users/.xxxx so I don't understand what you are trying to say
[07:43] <ogra> thrift: never ever run: sudo firefox !
[07:43] <thrift> ogra: I have run firefox as root. many times.
[07:43] <will_> StarScream: nope does not work
[07:43] <thrift> ogra: the only reason it's stupid is due to security issues.
[07:44] <d0gmaz> how do i restart X?
[07:44] <StarScream> will_, hmm any suggestions, i dont mind using the shell but my girlfriend doesn't like doing console stuff atm
[07:44] <cardador> d0gmaz: ctrl+alt+backspace
[07:44] <rasher> d0gmaz: quick way, log out to gdm, press ctrl+alt+backspace
[07:44] <thrift> ogra: I don't do it, but to tell a user to use the command line to copy files rather than just use a file manager as root seems like a bad thing
[07:44] <rasher> heh
[07:44] <ogra> thrift: wait a sec...
[07:44] <thrift> ogra: k
[07:45] <shingokii> why would you run firefox as root?
[07:45] <boldii> re
[07:45] <StarScream> firefox as root is not a good idea...may as well use windows
[07:45] <will_> thrift: its not good to run X for day to day use as root
[07:45] <shingokii> but why WOULD you run firefox as root?
[07:45] <thrift> shingokii: if you're running gnome as root and you launch firefox it would just happen, not that this is a good idea, but it doesn't fuck the system up
[07:45] <will_> dont run it as root....!
[07:46] <thrift> The only reason not to run X as root is due to security, everyone knows that right?
[07:46] <will_> thats true
[07:46] <[SemTeX] > when I try to mount my usb cdrom, it says special device /dev/scd0 does not exist
[07:46] <shingokii> I'm just really curious why you would want to run X as root
[07:46] <boldii> hey, how can I upgrade to  5.04?
[07:47] <[SemTeX] > but I did my install via that cdrom
[07:47] <shingokii> just sudo or su or something?
[07:47] <Sandy> Hey, Ubuntu is my first real attempt at linux (other than knoppix), and I installed it without a hitch, when I try and access my Windows XP partition through grub though, I get an error 13 message.
[07:47] <[SemTeX] > anybody knows what I'm missing? :)
[07:47] <thrift> ok, and ubuntu uses a sudo that is persistent, so if you just sudoed in the last five minutes and you're firefox gets buffer overflowed, you're system can still be rooted.  It's not smart to run firefox as root no, but nautilus?  It's more and issue of convenience that security
[07:47] <ogra> thrift: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-November/011503.html
[07:48] <jono> yo people
[07:48] <jono> anyone in here got DVD movies working in Linux? I need an author to write about it for an O'Reilly Linux Desktop Hacks book
[07:48] <shingokii> thrift: wow I didn't know that, thats stupid
[07:48] <shingokii> thrift: Can I make sudo NOT persistent?
[07:48] <thrift> shingokii: I don't know, but you notice sometimes you don't have to put in your password right after you did a sudo command?
[07:49] <shingokii> thrift: You're right, I had noticed that
[07:49] <shingokii> thrift: I hadn't given it much thought, not been running ubuntu long, or as my main distro
[07:49] <thrift> shingokii: I doubt it's really a big security issue, but running nautilus or firefox for a second liek that isn't either
[07:50] <ogra> thrift: this is a good thread too: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/004838.html
[07:50] <will_> okay what would you say this is?? :william@will ~ $ sudo nautilus
[07:50] <will_> (nautilus:4422): Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib
[07:50] <will_> (nautilus:4422): Gdk-WARNING **: cannot set locale modifiers
[07:50] <will_> (nautilus:4422): Bonobo-WARNING **: Leaked a total of 1 refs to 1 bonobo object(s)
[07:50] <ogra> argh
[07:50] <shingokii> thrift: I just can't see the point, I hardly ever need to run anything as root, and leaving root permissions for a few minutes each time is dumb
[07:50] <thrift> ogra: I'm reading.
[07:50] <thrift> shingokii: I'm suid...a lot
[07:50] <shingokii> thrift: But then I don't really understand why ubuntu doesn't have a "real" root user, normally I would su to that, do stuff, then exit
[07:50] <will_> what is this GDK stuff?
[07:51] <sri> so, anybody know when compmgr is gonna show up on hoary? :)
[07:51] <thrift> shingokii: I think it's so a brute force attack would have to guess a user name, password for the user, then root password.  It's more secure
[07:51] <ogra> thrift: a bit lengthy..... but the second one explains it better than i can
[07:51] <cardador> sri: its already around
[07:51] <Friczy> shingokii: timestamp_timeout, passwd_timeout can be set accordingly
[07:51] <sri> cardador: is it?  I haven't been able to see it on apt-cache
[07:51] <adolfo> holaaaaa
[07:51] <cardador> sri: thats because it is on a different repository
[07:51] <shingokii> thrift: Yup I guess so. Could just let you specify another user for the "root", I dunno. I'm sure its fine
[07:51] <|0__0|> what is compmgr?
[07:52] <ogra> sri: its highly unstable/slow
[07:52] <sri> cardador: ah, whast the repo?
[07:52] <|0__0|> is it some kind of plant?
[07:52] <shingokii> Friczy: Ah great, thanks. Export those in a terminal?
[07:52] <ironwolf> anyone able to connect to a windows share on another box?  If so how?
[07:52] <cardador> sri: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/ xcompmgr/
[07:52] <sri> ogra: probably.  from the times that I've used it when I complied xorg
[07:52] <Friczy> shingokii: no, in /etc/sudoers file
[07:52] <adolfo> alguien habla espaol?????
[07:52] <Friczy> shingokii: man sudoers
[07:52] <ogra> sri: completely different
[07:52] <shingokii> Friczy: Thanks, I'll have a look at that :)
[07:52] <sri> ogra: how so?
[07:52] <ogra> sri: i tried xorg last year......
[07:53] <|0__0|> KNEEL BEFORE XORG
[07:53] <ogra> sri: its like working via vnc currently
[07:53] <shingokii> Anyone know about getting freevo going on ubuntu? ubuntu repositories seem to have freevo, but not xmltv stuff on which it depends
[07:53] <Gwildor_> ogra, what did you use before ubuntu?
[07:53] <ogra> Gwildor: debian ;)
[07:53] <sri> ogra: well it's not that bad.  my problems with it is that scrolling has been very buggy
[07:53] <lemsx1> adolfo, si
[07:54] <ogra> sri: ...and moving windows....
[07:54] <sri> ogra: xorg was fairly unstable back then, but eric has been doing a great job with the compositing stuff
[07:54] <thrift> ogra: You are right, for sudo, but that is bad that sudo operates that way(I ussually su--login on other distros)
[07:54] <sri> cardador: thank you btw
[07:55] <ogra> hrift: never use filemanagers/browsers as root, its this simple :)
[07:55] <cardador> sri: np
[07:55] <ogra> thrift
[07:55] <thrift> ogra: only in ubuntu does this work this way
[07:55] <sri> |0__0|: xcompmgr is the compositing manager, it's the one that lets you use drop down shadows, and fading windows and all that stuff.  It's very unstable at the moment
[07:55] <ogra> thrift: nope
[07:55] <thrift> ogra: su --login in any distro you can and echo $HOME, it will be /root
[07:56] <ogra> thrift: its a simple unwritten law in unix
[07:56] <sri> actually it's more stable if you don't use any of the shadows and what not
[07:56] <thrift> ogra, read what I just said
[07:56] <zenwhen> oic
[07:56] <cardador> sri: you're right, very unstable.
[07:56] <ogra> thrift: i read it :)
[07:56] <|0__0|> aha
[07:56] <thrift> ogra: what will the $home variable be
[07:56] <Tyche> ogra: what is the +nc up top? And, what is +tnc
[07:56] <will_> ahhh i love downloading at 8Mbits !
[07:56] <Kamion> thrift: sudo != su --login, this isn't Ubuntu-specific
[07:56] <ogra> thrift: imagine you move your /usr by accident .... and didnt recognize where you dropped it....
[07:56] <sri> cardador: yeah, have to wait till anholt and others are working on other stuff I think, not compositing
[07:57] <ironwolf> where do I specify username when I get "You do not have the permissions necessary to view the contents of "Windows Network: hostname".
[07:57] <thrift> kamion: I realize, but it would be safe to su --login, then launch nautilus as root.
[07:57] <zenwhen> oic
[07:57] <Kamion> thrift: use sudo -H if you want it to change $HOME
[07:57] <thrift> kamion: thank you
[07:57] <cardador> btw, if anyone has a friend that wont change to linux because of counter strike source, tell him he can play on linux
[07:58] <ogra> thrift: but that still brings no safety net :)
[07:58] <thrift> ogra: sudo -H then.  I understand you could move somethign important somewhere you shouldn't, but that simply means don't run it as root all the time
[07:58] <thrift> ogra: When does your filemanager touch the internet.
[07:58] <shingokii> nice, you can only edit sudoers file with visudo, which uses vi, and vi is not installed, yay !
[07:59] <ogra> thrift: if you ever work with uni* it will be the first thing you learn....
[07:59] <Sandy> Hmm, changed it so that makeactive came before chainloader +1, now getting an error 12
[07:59] <ogra> thrift: ??
[07:59] <Friczy> shingokii: visudo can use any other editor as I know
[07:59] <thrift> ogra: I've used unix longer than you garaunteed
[07:59] <Kamion> shingokii: visudo uses $VISUAL
[07:59] <ogra> thrift: k....
[07:59] <Kamion> shingokii: also vim is installed by default and provides vi
[07:59] <aaroncuk> quick easy questiion.. im feelin dizzy.. an matx mb will fit in an atx case
[07:59] <thrift> ogra: how long have you used linux/unix?
[07:59] <Sandy> anybody have any advice?
[07:59] <ogra> thrift: wnot argue on that
[08:00] <thrift> ogra: then who knows more about what you learn first on unix?
[08:00] <ogra> thrift: my first touch with unix i had in 86
[08:00] <shingokii> I think I'll just trust ubuntu and leave it
[08:00] <Tyche> Sandy: Have you tried installing grubconf to help configure your grub?
[08:00] <will_> i should not have updated to hoary
[08:00] <ogra> thrift: didnt last long though ;)
[08:01] <thrift> ogra: This is becoming silly, you're first touch, and when you were first really using it is very different
[08:01] <shingokii> Is there somewhere to report package weirdness? Like if a package is present which can't install due to missing stuff?
[08:01] <ogra> thrift:  92
[08:01] <Kamion> thrift,ogra: dick-size wars won't help either of you; cut it out :)
[08:01] <Sandy> Tyche: Nope, not managed to install anything, as I access the internet through a usb wireless network, so installing something is tricky
[08:01] <thrift> lol true
[08:01] <ogra> hehe
[08:01] <Kamion> shingokii: bugzilla link in the topic
[08:01] <thrift> ogra: you do have more xp though
[08:01] <|0__0|> bah
[08:01] <|0__0|> damn posix
[08:01] <|0__0|> why do we even bother dividing EDITOR and VISUAL any more?
[08:01] <thrift> look at this though
[08:01] <ogra> thrift: i said i wont argue about that ;)
[08:01] <thrift> thrift@Io:~ $ echo $HOME
[08:01] <thrift> /home/thrift
[08:01] <thrift> thrift@Io:~ $ sudo -H bash
[08:01] <thrift> root@Io:/home/thrift # echo $HOME
[08:02] <Tyche> Sandy: I probably can tell you how I have my conf configured, I also run XP Dual Boot.
[08:02] <shingokii> so uh... I heard it is a recipe for disaster to try to use debian packages with ubuntu?
[08:02] <Sandy> That could be handy
[08:02] <|0__0|> shingokii: most likely, yes
[08:02] <thrift> ogra: so config files won't be hurt, but yes no safety net, so only run file manager as root when you NEED to, you could easily do the same damage on the command line as root, and especially if you're not familiar with the command line
[08:02] <|0__0|> shingokii: universe and multiverse already contain rebuilds of actual debian packages
[08:02] <will_> anyone downgraded from hoary to warty yet?
[08:02] <|0__0|> will_: apt doesn't let you downgrade safely
[08:03] <|0__0|> best to back up your /home and reinstall
[08:03] <ogra> will_: not supported
[08:03] <boldii> how do I upgrade to hoary?
[08:03] <will_> dont
[08:03] <|0__0|> boldii: if you have to ask, you're probably not ready
[08:04] <|0__0|> hoary is still very rough around the edges
[08:04] <ogra> thrift: but i wouldnt advise it to any unexperienced person
[08:04] <shingokii> |0__0|: I needed xmltv-util and libxmltv-perl but they are not in universe or multiverse
[08:04] <will_> like me
[08:04] <Gwildor_> boldii, change the word WARTY to hoary in your sources.list
[08:04] <ogra> will_: are you ?
[08:04] <thrift> ogra: All I saw was someone come in and ask how to move files as root, if they asked, they don't need to be told about the command line right?
[08:04] <boldii> |0__0|, ok, then I leave it. I don t want to break the glibc like in my old gentoo install ...
[08:05] <|0__0|> shingokii: if I were you, I'd try building them from the source packages, but even that's kind of iffy
[08:05] <ogra> thrift: i told him how to do it... so what ?
[08:05] <Friczy> is there any way to install ubuntu in uml?
[08:05] <Gwildor_> boldii, if you must, it went smooth for me, k7
[08:05] <ogra> thrift: better than sudo .....
[08:05] <will_> ogra: only joking! been ubuntu-ing for about 2 months maybe
[08:05] <thrift> ogra: what is more dangerous?  sudo -H nautilus, or sudo bash then crazy commands user doesn't understand
[08:06] <|0__0|> thrift: not sudo bash!
[08:06] <|0__0|> sudo particular commands
[08:06] <shingokii> |0__0|: So should I put in a bug report? Seems pretty dumb to have freevo in the repository when it can't install
[08:06] <will_> bash bash
[08:06] <will_> sudo /bin/bash
[08:06] <|0__0|> shingokii: yeah, I'd definitely file a bug
[08:06] <ogra> thrift: they are both bad ;)
[08:06] <thrift> |0__0| : sudo 20 particular commands in a row?
[08:06] <|0__0|> although you'll probaly get a "not supported" response
[08:06] <shingokii> |0__0|: thanks :)
[08:06] <|0__0|> thrift: no, he wanted one command, dude
[08:06] <thrift> ogra: what is worse for a new user? it's obvious
[08:06] <shingokii> thrift: What about the "root terminal" on the applications menu?
[08:06] <|0__0|> and yeah, sure, sudo 20 commands
[08:07] <thrift> |0__0| : fine for him, but still sudo commands user doesn't understand
[08:07] <|0__0|> beats sudo bash
[08:07] <will_> thats a potential mine field
[08:07] <boldii> Gwildor_, can I find a what s new list for hoary anywhere?
[08:07] <shingokii> What about the "root terminal" though, is that not what it is for?
[08:07] <ogra> thrift: you wont change my mind....and drag n drop in more dangerous in my opinion
[08:07] <thrift> shingokii: another just as good option
[08:07] <Gwildor_> boldii, I don't know where, search the ubuntu site, I guess, or query the ogra|bot
[08:07] <thrift> ogra: then you are just being stubborn.  Only an idiot would tell someone who didn't understand the command line to run run commands as root
[08:07] <shingokii> Yeah I wrecked one of my first linux installs using a file manager as root, not so much because I'm super-dumb as because the file manager was weird
[08:08] <shingokii> this was some time ago before nautilus
[08:08] <will_> calm down ppl, we have to get along TOGETHER!!
[08:08] <ogra> thrift: okay, think what you will...just  lets drop this now....
[08:08] <shingokii> Mind you its easy to wreck stuff by not understanding console commands too...
[08:08] <will_> exactly
[08:09] <shingokii> lets just all admit - linux is bad!
[08:09] <will_> yeah!
[08:09] <|0__0|> shingokii: it sucks!
[08:09] <will_> lin-sux
[08:09] <Tyche> anyone know about the irc permissions?
[08:09] <ogra> boldii: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryHedgehog
[08:10] <Gwildor_> ogra, thnx
[08:10] <boldii> ogra, thanks.
[08:10] <shingokii> whats up with the ubuntu certificates then?
[08:10] <will_> what firewall would u reccomend for Ubuntu
[08:10] <thrift> I'm saying in general that it's easier type a command wrong as a user who doesn't understand the command that will do a large amount of damage, than it is for a user to use somethign they are familiar with as root.  I think that's obvious, and you hurt new users by making them do things they don't understand and don't want to understand.  In the perfect real world a user should never have to touch the command line, so it's just s
[08:10] <thrift> illy to me.  That's all from me
[08:10] <ogra> thrift: ...just  lets drop this now....
[08:10] <will_> thrift:stop going on! :)
[08:11] <thrift> I'm done like I said
[08:11] <shingokii> Yeah I think it's all pretty much argued out - I agree with everyone!
[08:11] <will_>  what firewall would u reccomend for Ubuntu
[08:11] <will_> recommend even
[08:12] <thrift> ogra: did you see that screenshot I put up with the mem issues?
[08:12] <piovra> hi
[08:12] <ogra> thrift: must be in my history....diggin
[08:12] <thrift> ftp://<IP_ADDRESS>/Screenshots/Memory.png
[08:13] <thrift> I can't figure out what the hell is going on there
[08:13] <topyli> will_: you sure you need one? everything is closed by default
[08:13] <topyli> will_: i set my own up with firestarter
[08:13] <piovra> a little question...i've xorg an xcompmgr on my box, i can see shadows but, how i can enable transparecy?
[08:13] <Gwildor_> will_, no open ports, so I guess that makes ubuntu a firewall
[08:13] <thrift> piovra: transset
[08:14] <piovra> is it a package?
[08:14] <ogra> piovra: yep
[08:14] <ogra> thrift: whats wrong there ?
[08:14] <thrift> chekc out my mem usage, it doesn't add up.  This is a recurring problem too, I'll be up to a G by tommorow night
[08:15] <piovra> i don't find it... on what repository is?
[08:15] <thrift> With the same apps running
[08:15] <will_> i use remote doesktop
[08:15] <thrift> piovra: I don't know, you should have it installed if you have xcompmgr I thought, it could be transet too
[08:16] <ogra> thrift: i dont think so.....
[08:16] <ogra> thrift: since when is the box running
[08:16] <shingokii> hmm, I think freevo is in universe, so I can't post a bug on it
[08:16] <|0__0|> yeah
[08:16] <|0__0|> sucks
[08:16] <thrift> ogra: It's not in any of my repositories.  Last time I had transet I installed from cvs *shrgs*  under 24 hours
[08:16] <shingokii> but it is a problem with ubuntu I think because ubuntu is missing the required packages
[08:17] <|0__0|> shingokii: you can always try building from the deb-src stuff
[08:17] <shingokii> I'm just confused now
[08:17] <thrift> ogra: I installed the k7 kernel last night at like 10, and it's been running since then(happened with 386 kernel too)
[08:17] <piovra> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/ transset/
[08:17] <topyli> will_: yep, you need to open a port for that. everything else is should still be closed :)
[08:17] <piovra> i've find that
[08:17] <piovra> i try it now
[08:17] <shingokii> I think I'll try the static freevo install with everything built in, just would be nice to install it properly
[08:17] <|0__0|> shingokii: deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian testing main
[08:17] <|0__0|> deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US testing/non-US main
[08:17] <|0__0|> and then sudo apt-get build-dep the packages
[08:17] <shingokii> I kinda wish ubuntu could use standard debian packages with no problem
[08:17] <ogra> piovra: its in daniels repo....copy the xcompmgr line in your sources list and change xcompmgr against transset
[08:18] <|0__0|> then fakeroot apt-get source --compile yaddayadda
[08:18] <|0__0|> and it'll try to build you a deb built on and for your system
[08:18] <shingokii> right
[08:18] <piovra> ogra: yeah...i thought the same thing...
[08:18] <piovra> i'm updating
[08:18] <|0__0|> but yeah, the big static freevo ball may be your best bet just now
[08:18] <|0__0|> throw it in /opt or something
[08:18] <lupus_> can some help me
[08:19] <ogra> thrift: so, did it ever swap since then ?
[08:19] <lupus_> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)
[08:19] <lupus_> I keep on getting this problem
[08:19] <will_> anyone know how to get maximum speed out of a celeron 500?
[08:19] <shingokii> will_: A steam-abacus daughterboard?
[08:20] <ogra> thrift: linux uses as much memory as it can to stay speedy.....as long as it doesnt swap i wouldnt be alarmed
[08:20] <thrift> ogra: not swap hit since I switched kernel....it'll slowly get up there if it acts like it did before it'll start swapping tonight.
[08:20] <thrift> ogra: It could be fixed though and I could be just paranoid
[08:21] <ogra> thrift: i really think you should read the mailing list.... the same question came up there a while ago ;)
[08:21] <thrift> ogra: alright, I'll take a check there and see if this thing starts going crazy as time goes by
[08:22] <ogra> thrift: it shouldnt....
[08:23] <thrift> ogra: I hope not
[08:23] <thrift> Well I'm going to head out now then and see what happens
[08:23] <thrift> later
[08:24] <ogra> thrif: got it http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-November/010470.html
[08:24] <ogra> grr
[08:28] <will_> which version of debian is hoary based on is it sid?
[08:29] <jdz`> Yes -- all Ubuntu releases are based on snapshots of Sid
[08:30] <will_> jdz: so any repository i add, should be the sid one?
[08:30] <thepotoo> uh, is there any way to change the screen resolution (noob here)?
[08:30] <jdz`> will_: I don't know that much - I haven't tried yet.  You may break things..
[08:31] <will_> jdz: mplayer wont load up :(
[08:31] <jdz`> will_: Oh.  I have mplayer working with Warty
[08:32] <will_> jdz: just insalled it, and at the command prompt, no gui comes up
[08:32] <jdz`> will_: With warty I'm using the Marillat Testing source.  I'm not sure what to sugest for Hoary but testing works for Warty
[08:33] <xukun> thepotoo: you should give more info!
[08:33] <jdz`> will_: Did you try `gmplayer' for the gui?
[08:34] <will_> jdz:oops!
[08:34] <JStrike> Is John Hornbeck here?
[08:35] <will_> jdz: is there any real difference between -386 and -586?
[08:35] <ogra> JStrike: --> hornbeck
[08:35] <jdz`> will_: From what I understand -- the 568 package is simply more optomized for modern processors.  If it works, it may be faster
[08:35] <thepotoo> ah, I have an S3 SuperSavage video card, and I would like to set the resolution to 1024x768.  Is there a startup command to do this?  (i think in knoppix it was fb1024x768)
[08:36] <JStrike> hornbeck : ping
[08:36] <JStrike> ogra : Thanks
[08:36] <will_> thepotoo:i have one of those cards somewhere!
[08:36] <ogra> :)
[08:37] <thepotoo> will_:yeah, and they suxxorz ;)
[08:38] <Tyche> What is the enterprise version?
[08:38] <thepotoo> can anyone help me?
[08:40] <xukun> thepotoo: did you set the HorizSync and the VertRefresh, Ubuntu is not like knoppix
[08:40] <Kamion> Tyche: what enterprise version?
[08:40] <thepotoo> uh, no, how do i set that?
[08:40] <xukun> hmm
[08:40] <Tyche> Kamion: On the frontpage ubuntu.com it talks about an enterprise version.
[08:41] <dle> Hi all. If you find that its anti-aliasing looks a little weak compared to Fedora's for example, edit  /etc/fonts/local.conf and uncomment the last block.
[08:41] <xukun> thepotoo: what kind of monitor?
[08:41] <thepotoo> um, it's just a 1024x768 built-in laptop display
[08:41] <thepotoo> toshiba
[08:42] <Tyche> Kamion: "Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms."
[08:42] <jdz`> dle: Interesting.  thanks.  Might consitor sugesting that to the mailing-list or posting on the wiki...
[08:42] <dle> jdz`, sure. :)
[08:42] <shingokii> ah well, freevo bundle doesn't work
[08:42] <Kamion> Tyche: doesn't exist yet; if it exists, it'll be a version much like the current ones but supported for much longer
[08:43] <oddabe19> dle, or you could do a HOW-TO on the forum
[08:43] <Kamion> Tyche: the comment on the website is hypothetical
[08:43] <xukun> thepotoo: 15 inch
[08:43] <thepotoo> yeah
[08:44] <ogra> thepotoo: already tried Computer->System Settings->Resolution ?
[08:44] <xukun> thepotoo: can u grep VertRefresh and HorizSync in /etc/X11/XF86config-4
[08:45] <thepotoo> ogra: yeah, and of course, all it has is 800x600 or less
[08:45] <thepotoo> does ubuntu require drivers?
[08:45] <xukun> thepotoo: also grep "Driver" /etc/X11/XF86config-4
[08:45] <Tyche> Kamion: Okay, just wondering...didn't see anything to download...just wanted to check.
[08:45] <ogra> thepotoo: nope.... xukun is right...the detection missed a bit it seems...adjust these values
[08:47] <ogra> thepotoo: which model ?
[08:47] <thepotoo> ok, thanks, guys