[07:54] <psivaa> infinity: we have still to do linux-ec2/lucid and will try to do asap. sorry about the delay
[08:36] <ppisati> lp 1164074
[08:36] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1164074 in linux (Ubuntu Raring) "[Highbank] Quantal to Raring upgrade issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164074
[09:01] <ppisati> brb
[09:19] <apw> diwic, i have no sound on todays updates, on an all intel dell, 3 years old.  any suggestions as to diagnostics?  everything alsamixer shows for output is unmuted
[09:20] <diwic> apw, 13.04 ? did you have kernel and/or pulseaudio updates ?
[09:20] <apw> i had kernel at least, i had 450M so probabally most things
[09:20] <apw> for raring indeed
[09:21] <diwic> apw, let's assume kernel - last PA update was 3 weeks ago
[09:21] <apw> yay
[09:21] <apw> quality in action
[09:22] <diwic> apw, for initial investigation "ubuntu-bug audio"
[09:27] <apw> diwic, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1166097
[09:27] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1166097 in alsa-driver "[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel, playback] No sound at all" [Undecided,New]
[09:28] <diwic> apw, did you test speaker only or headphones too?
[09:29] <apw> diwic, i have personally tested all outputs, nothing
[09:31] <apw> infinity, yep
[09:33] <diwic> apw, but USB headset (if you're having any) is still working as usual I assume?
[09:33] <apw> diwic, don't think we have a usb headset here...
[09:33] <diwic> apw, ok.
[09:34] <apw> diwic, i do have some usb speakers, but they are not physically proximate
[09:34] <diwic> apw, let me look through recent patches to the driver and see if I find something
[09:36] <diwic> apw, argh, nothing there either
[09:36] <diwic> apw, I guess you're down to bisection then
[09:37] <diwic> apw, i e boot an older kernel to verify the kernel is the fault
[09:37] <apw> diwic, yeep
[09:37] <apw> diwic, daily quality guarenteed ... sigh
[09:38] <diwic> apw, how many days of update was it?
[09:41] <apw> diwic, a lot ... i have had no network for weeks, i was last 'here' with b/w about 2 weeks ago
[09:42] <apw> diwic, rebooting into a 3.5 kernel and i have sound
[09:49] <diwic> apw, you must have had sound with an earlier 3.8 kernel too?
[09:51] <apw> diwic, so ... 3.8-8 is ok, 3.8-9 is bad, i must have only used my usb output since then i assume to have not noticed for so long
[09:51] <diwic> apw, what dates are that approximately?
[09:52] <apw> commit 31b67ffaf4f9e72dce22d028180fc10a66dfec77
[09:52] <apw> Author: Tim Gardner<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:52] <apw> Date:   Tue Feb 26 12:15:23 2013 -0700
[09:52] <apw>     UBUNTU: Ubuntu-3.8.0-8.17
[09:52] <apw> commit f7c0639bf5538a557a1f05ea6a81fb237776e2fa
[09:52] <apw> Author: Tim Gardner<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:52] <apw> Date:   Thu Feb 28 08:47:51 2013 -0700
[09:52] <apw>     UBUNTU: Ubuntu-3.8.0-9.18
[09:55] <diwic> apw, what's the command for finding out the commits in between, for the sound/pci/hda directory?
[09:55] <apw> diwic, tricky cause it is a stable update ... ick
[09:55] <apw> git log 6071a7768562b970491c66127779de1f5b1250a3..Ubuntu-3.8.0-9.18 --oneline
[09:56] <apw> is the only changes we made ... so it must be a mainline change, working out what that is now
[09:58] <apw> diwic, it also includes 3.8 -> 3.8.1 stable
[09:59] <diwic> apw, hrm, I'm looking at gomeisa's ubuntu-raring tree and the only v3.8 tag it has is v3.8-rc5
[10:00] <apw> could be i have them locally separatly
[10:00] <diwic> apw, yeah, just haven't synced raring because I haven't got around to buy a bigger ssd :-)
[10:01] <apw> diwic, looking what was in the .1 updae
[10:02] <apw> diwic,
[10:02] <apw> ca36807 ALSA: hda - hdmi: ELD shouldn't be valid after unplug
[10:02] <apw> 97ec241 ALSA: hda - Fix broken workaround for HDMI/SPDIF conflicts
[10:02] <apw> 13ba2f7 ALSA: hda - Workaround for silent output on Sony Vaio VGC-LN51JGB with ALC889
[10:02] <apw> 6a9c847 ALSA: hda - Fix default multichannel HDMI mapping regression
[10:02] <apw> 41e19bd ALSA: hda - Release assigned pin/cvt at error path of hdmi_pcm_open()
[10:02] <apw> 45d13ae ALSA: hda - Disable runtime PM for Intel 5 Series/3400
[10:02] <apw> looks to be the delta for hda
[10:03] <diwic> apw, I looked through all those already
[10:03] <diwic> apw, none of those looks applicable to your problme
[10:03] <diwic> i e your hardware
[10:03] <amitk> what does linux-image-extra contain (in the mainline builds) ?
[10:03]  * apw goes test that it _is_ 3.8->3.8.1
[10:04] <apw> amitk, 'the other half of your modules', linux-image is 'virtual' linux-image+l-i-extras is 'generic'
[10:04] <amitk> apw: so probably useful on a desktop
[10:05] <apw> amitk, indeed yes
[10:06] <amitk> apw: thx
[10:06] <apw> amitk, np
[10:06] <apw> diwic, identifying whether it is stable or our changes next
[10:06] <apw> will let you know
[10:07] <diwic> apw, thanks. Yeah, I think we're down to a real bisect at this point no matter what
[10:07]  * apw secretly blames diwic :)
[10:13] <apw> diwic, ok 3.8 mainline is good,  3.8.1 is bad
[10:14] <apw> diwic, what was my bug number?  i've lost it already
[10:15] <diwic> apw, bug 1166097
[10:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1166097 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel, playback] No sound at all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166097
[10:22] <apw> diwic, ta
[10:32] <apw> diwic, so it is deffo one of those 6, just reverted just those off -9 and its working
[10:33] <diwic> apw, the annoying thing is that most of those are HDMI related
[10:33] <apw> diwic, yes
[10:34] <diwic> apw, hmm, you do have an HDMI codec on the same sound card though
[10:34] <apw> diwic, it does have hdmi as well
[10:34] <diwic> apw, btw, I assume you have not tested HDMI audio?
[10:34] <apw> diwic,  i have not
[10:34] <apw> it is not something i use regularly
[10:37] <diwic> apw, ok. well, continue searching. My guess is "Fix broken workaround for.."
[10:38]  * diwic wonders if we'll need a "Fix for fix for workaround for" patch...
[10:41]  * diwic goes for lunch, bbl
[11:21] <diwic> back
[11:25] <apw> diwic, ok ... bisect says:
[11:26] <apw> commit ca368073ffcbdd25486d65c150039423f677f821
[11:26] <apw> Author: David Henningsson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:26] <apw> Date:   Tue Feb 19 16:11:22 2013 +0100
[11:26] <apw>     ALSA: hda - hdmi: ELD shouldn't be valid after unplug
[11:26] <apw> is at fault.
[11:29] <diwic> apw, eh
[11:29] <diwic> apw, ouch ?
[11:29] <diwic> apw, probably it triggers some other bug in a strange relationship
[11:39] <apw> diwic, what now :)
[11:42] <diwic> apw, I'm still in denial ;-)
[11:43] <diwic> apw, it's not a dangerous patch to revert
[11:43] <apw> diwic, i'll reset to latest kernel and confirm it reverting it there solves it too and its not just luck
[11:44] <diwic> apw, could you also attach the contents of /var/lib/alsa/asound.state to the bug?
[11:46] <apw> diwic, attached
[11:47] <diwic> apw, can't see it, are you sure the attachment uploaded correctly?
[11:48] <apw> diwic, try that (i hate LP)
[11:48] <diwic> now it's there
[12:11] <apw> diwic, ok confirmed that reverting that patch against the 3.8.0-16 base also fixes my issues.  am trying to debug now, as your patch seems reasonable assuming no other bugs
[12:16] <diwic> apw, it should only affect the output of a file under proc.
[13:05] <apw> diwic, ok i have just added some prints (no functional change) on top of your not-working patch and it starts working ... this is well peculiar
[13:11] <diwic> apw, oh, a heisenbug
[13:11] <diwic> apw, out of curiousity what prints did you add?
[13:12] <henrix> brb
[13:12] <apw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689367/
[13:12] <apw> diwic, ^^
[13:12] <diwic> apw, also, I saw something in your dmesg; "alsa restore exited with status 99" or something similar.
[13:12] <diwic> apw, do you know if this is related, i e, if this message only comes when it's working, non-working, or unrelated?
[13:12] <apw> diwic, interesting ..
[13:13] <apw> will check
[13:13] <apw> [   12.683939] init: alsa-restore main process (1436) terminated with status 99
[13:13] <apw> diwic, present when working as well
[13:13] <diwic> apw, okay
[13:13] <diwic> apw, then it's not that
[13:20] <smoser> can i poke someone about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1164739 ? i'm not sure if its regression or not, but at very least i'd expect a kernel package to not have missing dependencies inside it.
[13:20] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1164739 in linux "Can not mount cephfs in VM from cloud image" [Medium,Confirmed]
[13:24] <smb> smoser, Could require the extras package. Or someone asking to move certain modules to the main package...
[13:24] <smoser> smb, right. read my comment at the bottom.
[13:24] <smoser> i dont have strong feeling either way on that.
[13:24] <smoser> but ceph.ko should not be in a package if libceph.ko is not (as it former depends on latter)
[13:25] <smoser> i'd assert thats a packaging bug if significant priority. i'm surprised if humans are maintaining the kernel module list without automatic dependency resolution
[13:26] <smb> smoser, Right probably one or the other. I think there was at some point a request to have ceph in virt so if it is only 200k more I guess you or Ben would not mind the difference
[13:26] <smoser> smb, well, i'd like to see the justification.
[13:27] <smoser> 200k is not insignificant at all. installed size is ~ 12M, so 200k is 2% growth.
[13:28] <smoser> basically, i dont want to willy nilly be adding things there.
[13:28] <smb> smoser, That would be coming from the bug report, right? But yeah, it has not been a problem yet to maintain the list by hand.
[13:28] <smoser> so it is maintained by hand, ok.
[13:29] <smoser> smb, ok. i'll open another bug that you can triage as you like for "module dependencies should not be managed by hand"
[13:30] <smoser> and then i'll ask the user here for some use case as to why they want ceph.ko in -virtual
[13:31] <smb> smoser, Yes, it is. Basically whenever someone tells us something needs to be supported in the cloud image we add it.
[13:31] <smoser> we should have some sort of policy to guide us in such decisions
[13:32] <smb> smoser, Hm, I am not sure this really qualifies (should not be done by hand). Whoever wants something now should test what is required. I wonder whether there was an actual request for ceph...
[13:35] <smoser> smb, well this user wanted ceph, but really only because they wanted to use ceph and didn't know about the -extra (and i told him).
[13:35] <smoser> clearly if you're given the choice between "do you want to have 1 extra step to use something" or "do you want to just use it", you'd pick the second.
[13:36] <smoser> but we have the size concern to consider.
[13:36] <smb> smoser, Its just that I *think* there has been someone asking for it before. I just cannot remember
[13:36] <smoser> smb, right.
[13:36] <smoser> smoser, can you git blame that list ?
[13:36] <smoser> and see?
[13:36] <smoser> at least who did it
[13:36] <apw> diwic, ok confirmed removing those printks also makes it break again
[13:36] <smb> smoser, thats what I currently try
[13:37] <smoser> smb, reguarding the dependency resolution, i'd suggest just failing a build if you're missing dependencies.
[13:37] <smoser> there are no cases where that is not a bug.
[13:38] <diwic> apw, I assume the "restring cap" printk was never printed?
[13:38] <apw> diwic, correct
[13:39] <smb> smoser, Not sure this is that simple. At least now, the build is done completely and just the packaging step splits the modules up.
[13:40] <smoser> hm.. i dont know. but personally i'd rather have a developers build fail then have 'modprobe' fail on a user system in this way.
[13:40] <smb> smoser, http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1063784
[13:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1063784 in linux "Ceph module not installed" [Medium,Fix released]
[13:41] <smb> So added around quantal
[13:41] <smb> But might be the other module did not exist then
[13:41] <smoser> smb, and then broken in raring to a kernel change probably.
[13:41] <smb> smoser, right
[13:41] <smoser> (which gives more credence to my argument :)
[13:42] <smoser> (the argument that there should be some test to stop this from being released)
[13:43] <smb> smoser, Hm, there is a libceph already (in q)
[13:43] <smoser> smb, the reporter claims this is broken in 12.10
[13:44] <smoser> that is a 3.5 kernel in the report.
[13:45] <smb> smoser, That would be Q, so someone did not test things after asking for it... :-P
[13:45] <diwic> apw, the thing is, eld->eld_valid should have been false always anyway, since you don't have an hdmi monitor plugged in.
[13:47] <smb> smoser, But ok, if it is possible to run a dep check on a package subdir that would catch those things
[13:49] <smoser> smb, its definitely doable. it might take some re-work of the kernel build though. i dont know.
[13:49] <smoser> but anyway.
[13:49] <smoser> i guess the right thing to do at the moment is to include libceph.ko
[13:49] <smoser> and probably sru that.
[13:51] <smb> smoser, Yeah, in theory it looks like one can point depmod at a different base dir and a system map file... so it should be possible. So let me know the bug for that. And for libceph, yes, sounds reasonable as having ceph.ko was already done, too.
[13:52] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1166197
[13:52] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1166197 in linux "included kernel modules may miss dependencies (-virtual)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:52] <smoser> smb, you definitely can do that. i use depmod that way in cirros
[13:53] <smb> smoser, Ok, I will try to add it to the build process then.
[14:05] <plars> infinity, bjf: we are almost through with the pile of SRUs from last week, there's a precise one that psivaa is working on now, and I'm about to start the ec2 one
[14:14] <bjf> plars, ack, looks good
[14:46]  * ogasawara back in 20
[14:55] <ppisati> infinity: i know you took care of the transition from Q/omap to Q/generic
[14:55] <ppisati> infinity: we need to the same for Q/highbank to Q/generic
[14:55] <ppisati> infinity: and i didn't find any patches in our kernel tree about it
[14:56] <ogra_> ppisati, meta should handle that
[15:00] <ppisati> ogra_: i know, but since he already handled that
[15:01] <ppisati> ogra_: he knows what to do better than me
[15:01] <ogra_> yep, i just mean it should be visible in your package somewhere :)
[15:06] <ppisati> actually was rtg who handled that
[15:06] <ppisati> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-raring-meta.git;a=commit;h=289b3dbee84086f2e323a1da7ccf3ea410b3ae59
[15:08] <ppisati> and i *think* we need a transitional pkg like we did for omap
[15:08] <ogra_> yup
[15:09] <ogra_> the right conflicts/replaces/breaks and a transitional package shoudl do
[15:21] <ppisati> ogra_: ok, i'll hassle rtg tomorrow about it
[15:21] <ogra_> :)
[15:46] <fxbrain>
[16:01] <infinity> ogra_: No need for conflicts, breaks, or replaces, it's just a straight up depends.
[16:02] <ogra_> ah, k
[16:02] <ogra_> you dont want the old package to be removed ?
[16:02] <ogra_> even though its likely impossible to roll back
[16:03] <infinity> When the "old package" happens to be your running kernel, forcing it off the system would be a silly idea.
[16:03] <ogra_> ah, indeed
[16:15]  * ppisati -> gym
[16:15] <ppisati> later
[16:32] <infinity> psivaa: precise/omap4 seems to also be stuck in regression-testing.
[16:34] <psivaa> infinity: it's progressing now, started a little late on that and i should be able to finish it this eve. roughly in about 4 hrs
[16:34] <infinity> psivaa: Cool, thanks.
[21:00] <psivaa> infinity: just completed the regression testing task for linux-ti-omap4: 3.2.0-1429.38 (1160194)
[21:01] <infinity> psivaa: Danke.


[07:03] <Keres> good morning
[07:19] <gbnnn> hi, trying out the new release from a live usb, i get a lot more xruns than when using my current ubuntu set up (just having jack and hydrogen running)
[07:20] <gbnnn> is it a common issue when running from the live usb?
[07:43] <shaban238> Eickmeyer hi there.  i just want to thank you again for the amazing work :)
[08:11] <Keres> anyone up?
[08:13] <Keres> nothing, no PCI card detected at all
[08:13] <Keres> how do i install an EWS 88 MT in Ubustu20.04?
[08:25] <StevenJayCohen> <gbnnn "is it a common issue when runnin"> Is it USB 2? I did my check from a USB 3 port/device. *Maybe* the difference in throughput *could possibly* show up as overruns?
[08:25] <gbnnn> i'm using the internal soundcard
[08:26] <gbnnn> on the current plain ubuntu setup with the current soundcard i almost don't get any xrun
[08:26] <StevenJayCohen> I meant that the key was inserted via USB3
[08:26] <gbnnn> oh
[08:26] <gbnnn> well the key itself is probably usb2
[08:26] <gbnnn> i mean the pen drive
[08:27] <StevenJayCohen> I checked before installing too. I made sure that I was in via USB3, can't try a USB2 port at the moment to see if I get different performance
[08:27] <gbnnn> but i would think everything is in my ram by then
[08:28] <Keres> good morning
[08:28] <gbnnn> all my ports are usb-c, but i don't know whether they are usb3, how can i check this? The bottleneck in this case would be the pen drive probably though, it's kind of old
[08:28] <StevenJayCohen> Right pen drive == key (different words same thing). And, I agree it should all be in ram. Just trying to think this through with you.
[08:28] <StevenJayCohen> If they're C then this shouldn't be an issue unless there is an adapter on the pen drive
[08:29] <gbnnn> there is an adapter between the pen drive and the laptop yes
[08:29] <StevenJayCohen> Can you check if that adapter is USB 1, 2, or 3?
[08:30] <StevenJayCohen> Another diff for me was that I was using an external audio interface for my sound card
[08:30] <Keres> can someone help me insall a 20yo sound card?
[08:31] <StevenJayCohen> SHouldn't an old sound card get recognized automatically (the joy of old gear)?
[08:32] <Keres> it used to be that way
[08:32] <Keres> it is an EWS Terratec 88 MT
[08:32] <Keres> it used to be rock solid
[08:34] <Keres> i had to move, change jobs, i pulled this box out of storage
[08:34] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: Interesting article - https://www.howtogeek.com/179803/usb-2.0-vs.-usb-3.0-should-you-upgrade-your-flash-drives/
[08:34] <gbnnn> StevenJayCohen: i'm not too familiar with lsusb, but this seems to indicate that it's usb3
[08:34] <StevenJayCohen> Keres: So it used to work in Linux?
[08:34] <Keres> i think so
[08:34] <gbnnn> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 056e:6025 Elecom Co., Ltd
[08:34] <gbnnn> Device Descriptor:
[08:34] <gbnnn> Couldn't open device, some information will be missing
[08:34] <gbnnn>   bcdUSB               3.00
[08:34] <Keres> but i think in windows
[08:34] <gbnnn> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
[08:35] <Keres> not sure... the disk from this machine was cannibilized
[08:35] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: okay, so not that. What else could cause xruns...
[08:36] <StevenJayCohen> Keres: I'd google for people trying to install it in linux to find precedent. It is possible that it was never supported under linux. Before things standardized that happened quite a bit.
[08:37] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: And, you are using Ubuntu Studio Controls to run JACK in both cases?
[08:37] <gbnnn> ah no i just started qjackct
[08:37] <Keres> they say it is mudita24
[08:37] <Keres> i have been searching
[08:37] <Keres> some people have it working
[08:38] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: on both machines?
[08:38] <gbnnn> yes, it's the same machine
[08:38] <gbnnn> usually i start qjackctl, then supercollider, and have very very few xruns
[08:39] <StevenJayCohen> so both via normal startup and via pen drive you used qjackctl with the same settings?
[08:39] <gbnnn> yes
[08:39] <Keres> "I have my old EWS88MT working fine with Ubuntu 8.10. I hope that this helps you. "
[08:39] <Keres> yes there is a driver
[08:39] <Keres> but i think my problem is something else
[08:39] <gbnnn> i'll try again later tonight, maybe i wasn't paying enough attention to the settings
[08:40] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: Why not use Ubuntu Studio Controls?
[08:40] <gbnnn> but since this is my only laptop with all my wfh setup already done, i cannot switch to ubuntu studio if i'm not 100% sure things will be better
[08:41] <gbnnn> ah it's my first try at ubuntu studio, i didn't know about this app, i'll try this
[08:41] <Keres> yeah, i remember running puppy and seing this card show up as envy24
[08:41] <Keres> there is a driver for ubuntu
[08:42] <Keres> its just that my system doesn't see the PCI card
[08:42] <Keres> lspci= nothing
[08:42] <StevenJayCohen> And you had it search for proprietary drivers in software update?
[08:43] <Keres> well i just had the box below detect a delta 44 with the same thing/
[08:43] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: It runs JAck for you and sets up the pulse/asla brige and everything
[08:43] <Keres> was ubuntu studio 16.10
[08:43] <Keres> it workd out of the box
[08:43] <Keres> this new box, was my main box before i moved
[08:44] <Keres> since i moved, i had a few setback
[08:44] <Keres> like,.,. flood
[08:44] <StevenJayCohen> <StevenJayCohen "And you had it search for propri"> Keres:  ^^^
[08:44] <Keres> so i lost all my CDs and books
[08:45] <Keres> search for additional drivers?
[08:45] <Keres> no none
[08:46] <StevenJayCohen> Then check back in this channel later when someone better with hardware is on. If the card runs under linux but isn't being seen at all, I'm at a loss.
[08:46] <Keres> maybee it is too old for 64bit drivers?
[08:46] <StevenJayCohen> could be a 32 bit card, true
[08:47] <StevenJayCohen> you could grab a 32 bit distro and check
[08:47] <Keres> ok, so i was trying to find old versions... can you shoot me some links?
[08:48] <StevenJayCohen> Load up a 32bit Lubuntu and then, if it is recognized, ass Ubuntu Studio to that
[08:48] <Keres> Lubuntu is different than Xubuntu?
[08:48] <StevenJayCohen> Keres: THe x86 link here: https://lubuntu.net/
[08:49] <Keres> then ass it huh?
[08:49] <Keres> what is assing in?
[08:49] <StevenJayCohen> Xubuntu uses XFCE Lubuntu uses LXDE or LXQT and is meant for older or lower powered devices and can even run on a raspberry pie well
[08:50] <Keres> oh
[08:50] <StevenJayCohen> They are all Ubuntu under the hood. Each flavor uses their own UI stuff
[08:50] <Keres> well, i have to get some HQ shit working soon or i will miss deadlines
[08:50] <Keres> good thing i have this hardware CD recorder next to me
[08:51] <Keres> but linux is better for audio, WHEN you can get it working
[08:52] <StevenJayCohen> Try the x86 version of Lubuntu. If it sees the card and you want Studio, drop to the terminal and sudo apt install ubuntu-studio-installer
[08:52] <Keres> ardour is amazing
[08:53] <StevenJayCohen> Realize that in 32bit mode, you will have all of the 32bit memory limitations though. So, if it is seen in a 32bit OS, then you may want a newer card instead
[08:55] <Keres> well, lemmie try Lubuntu
[10:26] <gbnnn> hi again, running from the live usb now, still getting a lot of xruns, but this time without sound
[10:30] <StevenJayCohen> that is odd. Did you choose your device in Ubuntu Studio Controls?
[10:31] <gbnnn> yes
[10:31] <StevenJayCohen> Can you paste that screen here?
[10:33] <gbnnn> hmm what's an easy way to do that?
[10:33] <gbnnn> https://imgur.com/ZXt1Zn0.png
[10:33] <gbnnn> found it
[10:33] <StevenJayCohen> screenshot utility then paste :)
[10:34] <StevenJayCohen> checking
[10:34] <StevenJayCohen> It says no xruns
[10:34] <gbnnn> no more xruns after i fixed the samplerate
[10:34] <gbnnn> but no sound
[10:35] <gbnnn> just trying to play a youtube video for now
[10:35] <StevenJayCohen> oh, right... thinking
[10:35] <StevenJayCohen> and if you restart the browser, no dice? and you did not uninstall pulse?
[10:36] <gbnnn> i have tried restarting the browser, now trying with hydrogen, still no luck
[10:36] <StevenJayCohen> pulse audio is installed, yes?
[10:36] <gbnnn> i haven't uninstalled anything, still running from the live usb
[10:37] <StevenJayCohen> thinking
[10:37] <StevenJayCohen> restarting jack?
[10:37] <gbnnn> well no more xruns, that's already a thing!
[10:38] <StevenJayCohen> The people who would know this answer immediately are all asleep. Yesterday's release took a lot out of them.
[10:38] <gbnnn> just closed hydrogen, the browser window with the video and restarted jack, still no sound
[10:39] <gbnnn> ahahah i'm pretty sure it did yes!
[10:39] <StevenJayCohen> Can you install a second browser via apt like sudo apt install epiphany-browser?
[10:39] <gbnnn> i'll try again this week end probably
[10:40] <StevenJayCohen> I see that you are in a browser session with us via IRC and I want to see if a new browser session is affected as well
[10:40] <StevenJayCohen> epiphany installs as Web (generic name)
[10:40] <StevenJayCohen> try a youtube video there
[10:41] <gbnnn> ok
[10:42] <StevenJayCohen> I did kind of have this issue at one point and am trying to remember what I did
[10:42] <gbnnn> no sound in epiphany either
[10:42] <StevenJayCohen> Okay, so neither browser can find pulse audio
[10:43] <gbnnn> the video is playing though
[10:43] <StevenJayCohen> right, it isn't paused, muted?
[10:43] <gbnnn> on my current ubuntu, if supercollider takes over for instance, the video will stop immediately
[10:43] <gbnnn> exactly
[10:43] <StevenJayCohen> for me it was paused when pulse fell over
[10:44] <gbnnn> not paused not muted
[10:44] <gbnnn> but no sound
[10:44] <StevenJayCohen> so, you can hear other sounds?
[10:44] <gbnnn> none
[10:44] <gbnnn> hydrogen also not making any sound
[10:45] <StevenJayCohen> What does it say in the control panel about volume
[10:45] <StevenJayCohen> and devices
[10:45] <wingedrhino> Just did my first run with 20.04. Pretty good! Curious - why is the default settings in Ubuntu Studio Controls for Jack at 48000/1024/2 instead of say 48000/256/3, which all onboard soundcards can handle? Also gives you an integer latency number.
[10:45] <StevenJayCohen> I am in gnome right now, not xfce, so I can't remember names of things
[10:45] <gbnnn> in open pulse control?
[10:46] <gbnnn> there seems to be a webkitWebProcess making sound
[10:46] <gbnnn> aaaaah
[10:46] <gbnnn> i have sound
[10:46] <gbnnn> just not going to my headphones
[10:46] <gbnnn> coming through my laptop speakers
[10:47] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: Cool!
[10:47] <gbnnn> when i unplug my phones
[10:47] <gbnnn> with the heqdphones plugged in, no sound
[10:47] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: I knew it was something like that.
[10:47] <StevenJayCohen> In the System Preferences, do you see anything about sound output devices?
[10:49] <gbnnn> there is only one output device: jack sink pulse out
[10:49] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: I did have something siilar to ths, but opposite where it thought my headset was still plugged in and kept the speakers muted
[10:49] <gbnnn> ok found it
[10:49] <gbnnn> i need to open QASmixer
[10:49] <StevenJayCohen> Where was it?
[10:50] <gbnnn> set the level of my headphones there and unmute them
[10:50] <StevenJayCohen> So, no xruns and you have sound now?
[10:50] <gbnnn> yes/
[10:51] <gbnnn> thank you!
[10:51] <StevenJayCohen> We did it! It was like the blind leading the blind, but we did it!
[10:52] <gbnnn> not sure i am ready to put this on my workstation though, lots of online meetings these days, i am concerned i will have to fumble a lot for every meeting
[10:52] <gbnnn> but at least i can explore from the live usb now!
[10:53] <StevenJayCohen> what software do you use for meetings?
[10:54] <gbnnn> zoom mostly
[10:54] <gbnnn> skype also
[10:56] <StevenJayCohen> zoom from their site via the deb is easier to setup than the zoom snap in the store. The one from the store needs to be manually connected to services to work
[10:56] <gbnnn> ok
[10:56] <StevenJayCohen> snaps don't interact well with the underlying sound system. That's why there won't be things like an Ardour snap, for example
[10:58] <wingedrhino> gbnnn, try what I did. I mounted a USB drive into VirtualBox and installed it there. Now I can use UbuntuStudio without touching my laptop
[10:58] <StevenJayCohen> So, something to consider gbnnn  would be uninstalling the snap store, installing the regular store via apt and adding in both the snap bridge and the flatpack bridge. That way, you can use the store but check all formats in one place
[10:58] <wingedrhino> gbnnn, I just got this working like 40 minutes ago https://github.com/wingedrhino/DistroSetup/tree/trunk/Manjaro#setup-virtualbox-in-manjaro
[10:59] <StevenJayCohen> I just wish there were a preference where I could say the order I'd prefer (deb first, for example)
[10:59] <gbnnn> i think i'll just install everything from debs
[11:00] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: That's what I do. But, I leave the snap and flatpack stuff connected in case I need it ever. So far, I haven't
[11:01] <StevenJayCohen> You'll see that the store is actually a snap. It wasn't working quite right, so I replaced it with a deb
[11:02] <StevenJayCohen> My hope is that eventually the best of snaps and the best of flatpacks merge and we just have SnapPacks or something at some point down the road. Both projects have their pluses. And the goal of a rock solid undercarriage of an OS is a good one
[11:03] <gbnnn> ah yes that would be the best indeed! not sure when this might happen though
[11:04] <wingedrhino> Is Zoom's .deb working for either of you in 20.04? Around half way through this month (in 18.04 LTS), I had this weird problem where it started using way too much CPU. I now attend Zoom meetings via Chromium.
[11:04] <StevenJayCohen> Yes, works well, ran a meeting 2 days ago in 20.04
[11:05] <wingedrhino> Aah sweet. I did a test-install of 20.04 on my USB and I'll now install it on my other laptop.
[11:06] <wingedrhino> Do you guys have any LV2 or LADSPA plugins you recommend for background noise reduction, live?
[11:06] <gbnnn> i had skype ramp up crazy cpu usage but zoom was ok mostly
[11:07] <wingedrhino> I take all my calls from my home studio at the moment, so the mic is pretty clear. I route my audio through Ardour anyway. So thinking of doing this thing where I put a noise gate and then some sort of a plugin that cancels certain ambient frequencies from my voice for when I'm using a headset mic.
[11:07] <gbnnn> if i decide to use install gnome on ubuntustudio, everything will work the same? or if that's what i want i should just use ubuntustudio installer on a plain ubuntu?
[11:08] <gbnnn> i was told to use ubuntustudio because you guys have the only distro properly setup to not have xruns because of hard to track wifi setup issues
[11:08] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: Other way around. Install regular Ubuntu then sudo apt install ubuntu-studio-installer
[11:09] <gbnnn> i hadn't realized until today this was an option
[11:09] <StevenJayCohen> that will give you an isntaller where you can choose the kernel, the jack setup, and any of the softwre that you need
[11:09] <gbnnn> i'll try this first! could save me a lot of hassle reconfiguring my whole workstation
[11:09] <StevenJayCohen> installer*
[11:09] <wingedrhino> gbnnn, You'd probably find KDE to be even better :D
[11:09] <gbnnn> i don't want to go through the whole samba setup again for my work
[11:10] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: Yep, and XFCE is fast and easy
[11:10] <gbnnn> i guess i just got too used to gnome
[11:10] <gbnnn> another very minor problem right now is that i cannot use tap to click on my trackpad
[11:11] <StevenJayCohen> What I would do -- CloneZilla (or some other backup your current setup), then try the Ubuntu + studio setup. If you have issues, revert using CLoneZilla
[11:11] <wingedrhino> StevenJayCohen, I think the main pros of Gnome and KDE are some of the integrations their file managers have. I couldn't find the equivalent on Xfce for KDE Connect for example.
[11:11] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: That's in system preferences, it may be off by default
[11:11] <wingedrhino> But Gnome doesn't feel like a desktop.
[11:12] <wingedrhino> So I find myself using Xfce or KDE, depending on how old the laptop is.
[11:12]  * StevenJayCohen is typing this from a Ubuntu + Studio setup in gnome 3
[11:12] <gbnnn> oh yes so easy
[11:12] <gbnnn> perfect
[11:13] <StevenJayCohen> Gnome 3 is meant to be keyboard and search driven, kinda like vim (oddly enough)
[11:14] <StevenJayCohen> gbnnn: probably the safest way to test it out :)
[11:15] <wingedrhino> Yeah but KDE is sort of like the best of all worlds. As long as you disable baloo file search that is. That hogs CPU, especially if you have a lot of small files you pulled into your node_modules in multiple projects.
[11:16] <StevenJayCohen> wingedrhino: then you'll be happy for 20.10 because they are migrating to Plasma
[11:16] <wingedrhino> StevenJayCohen, who's they? UbuntuStudio?
[11:17] <wingedrhino> If so, that'd be an early christmas :D
[11:17] <wingedrhino> KDE AND Ardour 6!
[11:17] <StevenJayCohen> Yep, it will default to Plasma instead of XFCE in 20.10. We should move this to the non-support channel. Since this is supposed to be for issues only.
[11:18] <StevenJayCohen> ubuntustudio-offtopic is where we should go
[11:24] <gbnnn> ok i'll log off, thanks again for your help!
[14:31] <josefvin> speccy
[14:53] <fSharp> hello, I cant upgrade ubuntu-studio from 19.04. I tried online posts but didnt work, in which I edit sources.list...updater shows "upgrade" but nothing happens when I select it.
[15:18] <mrz80> I see in the release announcement that due to kernel issues Firewire is no longer going to be supported. Can someone shed some more light on what the issues were? Has firewire been dropped from the most recent kernel development?
[15:18] <mrz80> I was kind of counting on being able to scoop up some sweet cheap firewire studio gear off Reverb now that everyone's converting to USB :D
[15:31] <Eickmeyer> mrz80: With Firewire, it's a crapshoot. Some of it works with the ALSA Firewire driver, some doesn't and requires that driver to be blacklisted to use FFADO. Basically, Ubuntu Studio Controls will not support Firewire via FFADO but will support it via ALSA.
[15:32] <Eickmeyer> mrz80: Not something we intentionally did, it's just what happened in the Linux kernel.
[15:32] <Eickmeyer> mrz80: That, and we're not in the business of reviving ancient hardware. That's not the purpose of Ubuntu Studio.
[15:32] <mrz80> Ah, so it's a "you rolls the dice and takes your chances" kind of thing.
[15:33] <Eickmeyer> mrz80: Exactly.
[16:08] <OvenWerks> Keres is gone I guess, but his device should just work. It seems to be a ice1712 based device the same as the delta 44/66/1010. At a guess he forgot that the levels have to be turned up the first use because pulse doesn't know how :)
[16:09] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: USB3 audio devices still use the USB2 audio protocole (at the same speed even)
[16:15] <OvenWerks> wingedrhino has gone too, but I was using the zoom deb from the zoom website last night with no problem (maybe less problem than some of the windows users at the same meeting)
[16:16] <OvenWerks> skype and hangouts have been fine as well
[16:25] <OvenWerks> though from the past, skype will not work well with jack set to lower latencies. It's internal buffer must be to big.
[18:58] <DjZU> Hi there, after a successful update from 18.04 to 20.04, I got a crash popup at boot and found 'autojack' report in /var/crash that says : Permission denied: '/var/lib/sendmail/.log'
[20:26] <zoroman> hello there, how can i upgrade my distro to 20.04 LTS? apt-get dist-upgrade just doesn t work...
[20:42] <DjZU> zoroman you should read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/UbuntuStudio
[20:49] <zoroman> ok, thanks!
[21:33] <zoroman> i just can t upgrade to 20.04 lts, i try everthing from here:https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/UbuntuStudio
[21:34] <zoroman> any idea?
[21:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> zoroman: Upgrades aren't supported yet. It takes a few days for regular versions (19.10) and a few months for LTS to LTS (18.04). That's what you missed from the release announcement and release notes that DjZU was trying to show you.
[22:48] <DjZU> Eickmeyer[m] well, I actually did it.
[22:52] <zoroman> oh, my fault, sorry. Too anxious...
[23:25] <Eickmeyer> DjZU: Like everything in the Linux world, just because you *can* doesn't mean it's supported.
[23:29] <DjZU> @Eickmeyer You are right


[19:21] <sidi> hi, currently developing patches for nautilus's ubuntu package. i know how to add patches and rebuild a deb, but what i want now is to build a source tree with all the existing patches added, so i can test my code on top of this tree. How can I achieve that?
[21:11] <Noskcaj> sidi, quilt push -a ?
[21:12] <Noskcaj> then remove .pc/ and debian/ if you need to make it just source code, no excess packaging
[22:04] <sidi> Noskcaj, am not on my ubuntu system right now, but push -a applies all patches to the source?


[14:43] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: ‘App Hider’ is a GNOME Extension That, Err, Lets You Hide Apps @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/04/hide-application-gnome-shell-extension (by Joey Sneddon)
[20:15] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue785 up for review and final edits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue785 :D
[21:05] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: Double-entry for the 95to5linux article under "In the Blogosphere".
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> Or.... something.
[21:11] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Thanks ! ya see the Edubuntu video ?
[21:11] <Eickmeyer> There were a couple. One of them I didn't really care for because the dude did zero research and made a lot of assumptions.
[21:12] <Eickmeyer> There was another one that I retweeted about from the Edubuntu account.
[21:12] <Eickmeyer> I liked that one.
[21:13] <Eickmeyer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkRuZNAXDa4&feature=youtu.be
[21:14] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Oh! I missed that one - I pick it up and see what I can do with it !
[21:16] <Eickmeyer> The one you got... "Why red?" Maybe because the logo is red? I dunno.... *facepalm*
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: Another one:
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YioCH7GFL88
[21:26] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Got em :D Good deal !


[04:56] <lucidfox> Anyone knows why Chromium 35 is not in Ubuntu yet, and when to expect it?
[05:40] <didrocks> morning
[05:42] <larsu> salut
[05:42] <didrocks> hey larsu!
[05:47] <BigWhale> Greetings.
[05:48] <BigWhale> Are there any API's in Gnome to detect USB changes?
[05:48] <BigWhale> Devices connected and disconnected?
[05:53] <TheMuso> BigWhale: Thats udisks.
[05:53] <TheMuso> afaik anyway.
[05:57] <didrocks> hey BigWhale
[06:04] <BigWhale> Hey didrocks! :)
[06:05] <BigWhale> TheMuso, Hmm, this seems like something that deals mainly with discs.
[06:05] <BigWhale> err, storage devices. :)
[06:06] <BigWhale> I'd like to detect whether a USB camera was connected.
[06:06] <BigWhale> And I'm pretty sure this was already done somewhere. :)
[06:09] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:09] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[06:09] <didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
[06:09] <pitti> hello BigWhale, how are you?
[06:09] <didrocks> pitti: tu as encore mangé des fraises aujourd'hui ?
[06:09] <pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! was a nice half-work half-family day yesterday
[06:10] <didrocks> great ;)
[06:10] <pitti> didrocks: pas encore, mais je vais manger le petite-dejeuner en quelques minutes, avec des fraises :)
[06:10] <didrocks> héhé, bon appétit !
[06:10] <pitti> merci !
[06:11] <BigWhale> pitti, hey! Doing excellent. Finally found time to show some love for Ubuntu. :)
[06:11] <TheMuso> BigWhale: Sorry, I misread your query, and thought you were talking about disks.
[06:11] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[06:14]  * larsu wants fraises as well
[06:14] <larsu> morning everyone :)
[06:15] <mvo> goog morning
[06:15] <didrocks> hey mvo ;)
[06:27] <RAOF> BigWhale: libgudev will get you various notificationy things, libgusb will get you usb-y things.
[06:29] <BigWhale> RAOF, thanks, I'll look into it.
[06:30] <RAOF> If you're specifically after cameraing, gphoto might be what you're after, but I don't know if that handles hotplug detection also.
[06:31] <BigWhale> RAOF, I'm working on webcam features for Kazam and I just need to detect if something happened on USB, so I can fire up camera detection.
[06:33] <RAOF> gudev would totally do that for you.
[06:33] <RAOF> 1) Set up udev monitor for the “usb” subsystem, 2) profit!
[06:34] <pitti> hey mvo, gugen Morgen :)
[06:34] <pitti> BigWhale: right, lib(g)udev, watch for "usb" subsystem and pick out the ones with ID_GPHOTO=1
[06:35] <pitti> gvfs' gphoto2 monitor does that, in case you need a working example
[06:36] <BigWhale> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/gudev/GUdevClient.html#GUdevClient-uevent
[06:36] <BigWhale> This looks promising.
[06:37] <BigWhale> My buttons will appear and disappear automagically! :>
[06:37] <mvo> hey pitti and didrocks, good morning
[06:49] <pitti> BigWhale: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/tree/monitor/gphoto2/ggphoto2volumemonitor.c#n379 FYI
[06:59] <BigWhale> pitti, yes, thanks.  Just ran my first click package test with adt-run :)
[08:09] <didrocks> Laney: I'm good, thanks! Yourself?
[08:09] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:09] <seb128> hey Laney didrocks pitti
[08:09] <seb128> how are you?
[08:09] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:09] <Laney> not bad!
[08:09] <Laney> gave blood last night to finish up the 8 week interval trial i've been on
[08:09] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:10]  * Laney is drained
[08:10] <didrocks> in the night? They don't let you after 1PM here…
[08:10] <Laney> open until 19.30 on some days
[08:10] <pitti> Laney: which trial? how much blood they can get out of you before you collapase? :/
[08:10] <didrocks> waow, nice
[08:11]  * didrocks would love that, would be easier to give blood
[08:11] <Laney> pitti: trying to increase the allowed frequency
[08:11] <seb128> Laney, did you go climbing after that? ;-)
[08:11] <Laney> http://www.intervalstudy.org.uk/about-the-study/why-is-it-important/
[08:11] <pitti> Laney: ah, it's 12 weeks here
[08:11] <Laney> haha
[08:11] <Laney> yeah, 12 for men and 16 for women is standard I think
[08:11] <Laney> but they have a problem with not enough donors
[08:12] <Laney> so pumping the existing people for more blood is one solution ...
[08:12] <pitti> and I have enough trouble getting enough iron with 12 :)
[08:12] <Laney> haha, somehow that doesn't surprise me ;-)
[08:12] <pitti> Laney: did they give you iron pills?
[08:12] <Laney> seb128: definitely not, I went home and had okonomiyaki and then cookie dough ice cream ;-)
[08:12] <Laney> nope
[08:13] <pitti> yummy
[08:13] <Laney> you're supposed to get it from your normal diet
[08:13] <didrocks> okonomiyaki \o/
[08:13] <didrocks> mvo: see, I'm not the only one ^
[08:14] <mvo> didrocks: haha
[08:14] <mvo> yeah!
[08:14] <didrocks> mvo: tell me once you have experienced some :)
[08:14] <mvo> not yet, no :)
[08:16] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:16] <seb128> what do you need to experience?
[08:16] <mvo> seb128: hey !
[08:16] <mvo> seb128: okonomiyaki
[08:17] <seb128> oh, I should too, though I just googled for it and it doesn't look too appealing to me
[08:19] <pitti> looks quite nice to me -- is that veggie?
[08:20] <Laney> ours doesn't look very authentic judging by the google images ...
[08:20] <seb128> seems veggie yes
[08:20] <Laney> not necessarily but you choose what to put in so it can be
[08:20]  * pitti waves, bbl
[08:20] <pitti> mvo: you don't have a national holiday today?
[08:20] <seb128> though they have variants with fish or meat
[08:20] <seb128> pitti, holiday for you?
[08:20] <seb128> pitti, enjoy!
[08:21] <pitti> mvo: it's "Fronleichnam" for the catholic states (but I'm working half-day today and half-day yesterday)
[08:21] <pitti> seb128: well, I'm in Dresden to visit my grandma, she's really in a bad condition
[08:21] <seb128> :-(
[08:21] <seb128> pitti, good luck with that then
[08:21] <pitti> thus I'm working short days with interruptions, and compensate by working today
[08:21] <pitti> which works out quite nicely
[08:21] <pitti> seb128: merci
[08:24]  * didrocks hugs pitti, good luck
[08:33] <seb128> Laney, what's the status of that vala issue?
[08:33] <Laney> oh
[08:34] <Laney> uploaded it to unstable
[08:34] <Laney> did it sync?
[08:34] <seb128> let me check, syncs are not on -changes
[08:34] <seb128> yes
[08:34] <Laney> oh man, build status looks pretty bad
[08:34] <seb128> it ftbfsed on i386 and some others though
[08:35] <Laney> might have to give that another go ...
[08:35] <seb128> one test failing
[08:35] <Laney> yeah it's this one
[08:35] <Laney> guess my fix didn't work everywhere
[08:35] <Laney> but there's an upstream patch for this now
[08:35] <Laney> so let me take that, sec
[08:35] <seb128> thanks
[08:35] <mvo> pitti: yeah, its a pulic holiday but I swaped it with tomorrow
[08:36] <mvo> pitti: my sister will visit me tomorrow :)
[08:52] <seb128> Saviq, hey, just as a fyi, charles fixed indicator-session but apparently untiy8 doesn't respond to the logout request, just fwd you his email if you are interested in details
[08:53] <Saviq> seb128, heh :|
[09:57] <Laney> buh
[09:57] <Laney> what was the trick to get around broken vala bootstrapping?
[09:57] <Laney> pitti: you had some fun with some time last year, do you remember?
[10:00] <mpt> xnox, hey, remember <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskWarnings>?
[10:01] <seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala-0.18/0.18.1-0ubuntu9 and previous entries?
[10:01] <Laney> yeah
[10:01] <Laney> is it 'include the updated C sources, touch that .stamp file'?
[10:02] <seb128> the diff touch the .c as well
[10:08] <ari-tczew> hey, is gnome 3.12 going to be default in utopic?
[10:22] <seb128> ari-tczew, no, default is Unity
[10:23] <Laney> phew
[10:24] <Laney> glad someone had this problem before me
[10:24] <seb128> the vala one?
[10:24] <seb128> did that worked?
[10:24] <Laney> yeah
[10:24] <Laney> looks promising
[10:26]  * Laney is a dwarf standing on the shoulders of pittis
[11:47] <ari-tczew> seb128: so can we do syncs/merges/upgrades versions 3.12 of gnome-related packages?
[11:48] <seb128> ari-tczew, no
[11:48] <ari-tczew> seb128: why?
[11:49] <seb128> ari-tczew, you can for things not using GtkHeaderBar/CSD, read logs from this channels or ubuntu-desktop lists for details, that has been covered quite a few times
[13:19] <seb128> tedg, charles: hey, why is indicator-transfer build-depending on dbus?
[13:22] <tedg> seb128, I believe so that it can use it as part of the test environment?
[13:22] <tedg> seb128, Is it directly, or just through dbus-test-runner?
[13:24] <seb128> tedg, it has a build-depends on "dbus", which seems a bit weird, I though it would get it through dbus if that's what needs dbus
[13:24] <seb128> tedg, charles: "Vcs-Browser: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-transfer/trunk.13.04/files", also, that url is invalid
[13:26] <seb128> tedg, charles: those are my only nitpick, looks good for NEW otherwise, I'm going to accept it
[13:29] <seb128> pitti, I binNEWed the touch langpacks that were in the utopic queue
[13:29] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[13:30] <seb128> yw!
[13:34] <tedg> seb128, Cool, I'll do an MR to fix them, but we'll wait for a silo with something else to merge it.
[13:34] <seb128> tedg, sure, that can be fixed later
[13:34] <seb128> tedg, charles: is the indicator supposed to work/show under unity7?
[13:34] <tedg> seb128, No
[13:34] <seb128> :-(
[13:35] <tedg> seb128, It requires custom IDO widgets. We've talked about it, but hard to prioritize doing.
[13:35] <seb128> oh ok, that makes sense
[13:36] <seb128> using the loader I can at least see the "idle" changing to "1 active" when running the simple download test
[13:55] <charles> seb128, I'm still doing coding on i-transfer, I'll update the (1) dbus dependency and (2) Vcs-Browser line in the next MR
[13:55] <charles> seb128, thanks for the suggestions
[13:57] <seb128> charles, yw, and ted said he's going to MR the changes, so check with him to not duplicate work
[13:57] <charles> tedg, ^
[13:57] <tedg> charles, Check your mail :-)
[13:59] <charles> tedg, ack
[14:07] <seb128> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-network/use-in-unity8-sessions/+merge/223748 ... wdyt?
[14:11] <tedg> seb128, Seems good to me. I'd say we need something better, but really it's just short term until "Unity" is something consistent.
[14:12] <seb128> tedg, right, or until we use the new indicator in unity7
[14:12] <Laney> what about unity8-x11?
[14:12] <seb128> Laney, is that still a thing?
[14:12] <Laney> also s/&&/-a/, no?
[14:13] <Laney> there's still a package for it at least
[14:13] <seb128> Laney, is "&&" incorrect ... my sh scriptiong is not good, is that wrong syntax (seems to work locally)
[14:13] <Laney> pretty sure
[14:13] <Laney> see man test
[14:14] <Laney> you can do [ ... ] && [ ... ] though
[14:15] <charles> tedg (& seb128): approved, thanks ;)
[14:15] <seb128> charles, thanks
[14:16] <seb128> Laney, can you wrap shell lines?
[14:16] <seb128> like do
[14:16] <seb128> [ ... ] &&
[14:16] <seb128>  [ ... ] &&
[14:16] <seb128>  [ ... ]
[14:16] <seb128> ?
[14:17] <charles> hmm, I wonder if there's a better way to do things like this so that we don't wind up with #ifdef-level code all over the place
[14:17] <charles> https://code.launchpad.net/~445865575-b/indicator-session/indicatorForKylin/+merge/223664
[14:18] <Laney> seb128: should work
[14:18] <Laney> urgh
[14:19] <Laney> I hate that renaming of Ubuntu to Ubuntu Kylin everywhere
[14:21] <Laney> maybe they should divert /etc/os-release or something
[14:28] <seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-network/use-in-unity8-sessions/+merge/223748 looks good to you?
[14:28] <charles> seb128, any thoughts on that Kylin string question?
[14:29] <charles> maybe I'm making too much of it, but my first thought is if we don't do this better, there will be patches like that all through our repos
[14:29] <seb128> charles, what laney said, use NAME from /etc/os-release and get Kylin to change that
[14:30] <seb128> like "%s Help", NAME
[14:30] <seb128> happyaron, FJKong: do you if Kylin change its /etc/os-release?
[14:31] <happyaron> seb128: Kylin does not change it atm
[14:31] <Laney> seb128: yeah that'll work
[14:31] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:32] <seb128> Laney, I tested locally and it works in unity7 and 8 session (does respectively the right thing)
[14:32] <Laney> seb128: you could do ${DESKTOP_SESSION##unity8-} = ${DESKTOP_SESSION} to match all unity8- sessions at once
[14:32] <Laney> :-)
[14:32] <Laney> sh is fun
[14:32] <seb128> lol, I'm having something working, I don't touch it
[14:33] <Laney> like if there's a unity8-wayland ever
[14:33] <seb128> happyaron, do you know if they discussed change it?
[14:33] <Laney> * hell freezes over
[14:35] <happyaron> seb128: they didn't
[14:36] <happyaron> seb128: they added a file, /etc/ubuntukylin-release, for identifying Kylin systems.
[14:36] <Laney> it means that programs have to special case kylin though
[14:36] <seb128> happyaron, well, that forces code to special case rather than just reading os-release
[14:38] <happyaron> seb128: they want to keep compatibility with Ubuntu as much as possible, so that all program that do OS checking can identify it as Ubuntu, except those ones can recognize the additional indication of Kylin flavor.
[14:38] <seb128> shrug
[14:38] <seb128> they want to be Ubuntu but not be flagged as Ubuntu at the same time
[14:39] <happyaron> that's it
[14:39] <Laney> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/os-release.html
[14:39] <Laney> I think that NAME is for presentation
[14:57] <seb128> Laney, so, tell me about vala in utopic?
[14:57] <Laney> -5 is in unstable
[14:57] <seb128> waiting for the next autosync to get it?
[14:57] <Laney> just for LP to see it, can manually sync then
[14:57] <seb128> k
[14:58] <seb128> thanks
[14:58] <Laney> feel free to upload if you want it now
[14:58] <seb128> no hurry, just make sure it's in the pipes
[14:58] <seb128> tomorrow is fine
[14:58] <Laney> the series of tubes is clear
[14:59] <Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=vala-0.24&suite=unstable
[15:35] <seb128> Mirv, hey, do you know if there is a bug somewhere discussing changing the default qt version from qt4 to qt5?
[15:36] <seb128> Mirv, is "install qt5-default" the right way currently to make it default? (that pulls in a bunch of dev binaries that don't seem needed to change the default)
[15:40] <mdeslaur> tedg: happy birthday :)
[15:41] <tedg> mdeslaur, Ha, thanks!
[15:41] <seb128> oh
[15:41] <seb128> tedg, happy birthday!
[15:48] <Mirv> seb128: man qtchooser explains the different way of setting it, ie environment variable, a parameter for the tool etc. qt5-default installs a config file that makes qt5 default if not overridden
[15:59] <seb128> Mirv, thanks ... what about having qt5 default? was that discussed before?
[16:00] <Mirv> seb128: no, setting either as system wide default default has not been discussed, other than it's done via /etc/environment on the phone/tablet
[16:09] <seb128> Mirv, where would be the right place to start that discussion?
[16:10] <seb128> Mirv, context is that the current unity8-desktop issue fails to start qml apps because it's looking in qt4 directories
[16:10] <seb128> Mirv, we need to resolve that one way or another, trying to figure out which way is best, hacking the environment doesn't seem great
[16:19] <Mirv> seb128: everything goes through qtchooser, so it depends on which method seems less ugly. the default.conf symlink from qt5-default in a leaner package would be one option if environment variable seems too ugly, if it's ok to deviate from Debian in that matter
[16:20] <seb128> Mirv, is Debian going to default to qt5 one day?
[16:20] <Mirv> seb128: currently the fallback is to Qt 4, the fallback might be set to Qt 5 some day
[16:20] <seb128> Mirv, there must be a way to have qml apps working out of the box, I can't believe that debian is fine with "install an app, try to run it from its .desktop, have that fail because it looks to the wrong qt"
[16:21] <didrocks> and 20 more tests today, not a bad day \o/
[16:21] <seb128> or maybe the .desktop should call to a different binary?
[16:21] <Mirv> seb128: qmlscene is a developer tool not recommended to be used in production, according to documentation :P
[16:22] <seb128> Mirv, do you know if we plan to replace it before rtm/this cycle?
[16:22] <Mirv> seb128: there have been discussions about it for 1.5 years, but nothing has ever materialized ie. it has continued to work well enough so that no-one has bothered to write "ubuntuscene"
[16:22] <Mirv> so I doubt it'll change
[16:22] <seb128> k
[16:23] <seb128> so we need to somewhat make qmlscene work
[16:23] <seb128> Mirv,  would it make sense to email ubuntu-devel@ about it to get the discussion going?
[16:24] <Mirv> seb128: possibly, some people have become allergic to the topic however :D
[16:24] <Mirv> but the SDK team does know about it, you might ping Zoltan next week when he's back
[16:25] <seb128> Mirv, well, as you said, Debian has the same issue
[16:25] <didrocks> not sure that "being allergic to a topic" is a good reason to ignore the issue and not fix it :)
[16:25] <seb128> so it seems rather a distro one that a sdk one
[16:25] <seb128> I feel like I'm going to get more consensus from a devel discussion that from talking to Zoltan
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, not going to stop me in any ca
[16:25] <seb128> case
[16:25] <didrocks> seb128: for your demo at the sprint when I was looking about it with mvo, I installed qt5-default IIRC
[16:26] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, I did that earlier, but it brings a stack of libdev binaries
[16:26] <seb128> Depends: qtbase5-dev...
[16:26] <didrocks> I didn't pay attention to that, I just tried to have your laptop working, but it doesn't seem right…
[16:26] <seb128> I don't want that on the iso
[16:27] <seb128> right
[16:27] <seb128> it's working, I can confirm it ;-)
[16:27] <Mirv> yeah it seems a distro one and a bit complex from the aspects that 1) it works, 2) funnily, it's a very very small tool that essentially just does "load this QML", 3) 'qmlscene' usage is spread out through the system, 4) we might want to write our own (we=who?), 5) there's even another similar binary now called just 'qml', introduced in Qt 5.2
[16:27] <seb128> but yeah, wrong way
[16:27] <didrocks> maybe we should have qt5-default and qt5-default-dev
[16:28] <didrocks> as setting the runtime and dev environment are different matters
[16:28] <didrocks> and the list of deps would be different then
[16:28] <seb128> Mirv, well, my issues is that we have apps that don't work once installed, you click on their desktop and they fail because they look into the wrong directory, so those packages need fixing, the solution might be to code the path to the binary I don't know
[16:28] <Mirv> seb128: all of the apps could also call qmlscene like "qmlscene -qt5", problem solved
[16:28] <didrocks> the issue is that if you then install any app and the default isn't correctly set…
[16:28] <Mirv> (one option of how to use qtchooser)
[16:28] <Mirv> it's just all apps need to be patched
[16:28] <Mirv> or there could be an alias...
[16:29] <tedg> seb128, Thanks!
[16:29] <seb128> is the rational that those apps are qml ones and can work with either qt4 or qt5?
[16:29] <didrocks> yeah, either qmlscene-qt5 or qmlscene5… if there is no backward compatibility of qmlscene between 5 and 4…
[16:29] <seb128> but that's not even true, the format changes and they use 5 apis
[16:29] <seb128> didrocks, right
[16:30] <didrocks> seb128: I wonder if qml with qt 4 (qtquick 1) works with qml with qt5
[16:30] <Mirv> if QML app is written in Qt Quick 1, it works with both Qt 4 and 5. Quick 2 is only supported in Qt 5
[16:30] <didrocks> maybe…
[16:30] <didrocks> and that would be the reason
[16:31] <didrocks> so, why not qmlscene is shipped with conflicts: replaces the Qt 4 version? (as you can load it with Qt 5)
[16:33] <didrocks> if you install the Qt5 version and it's compatible with the previous Qt 4 version, just let the new one replace the old one if you install Qt 5 on top of Qt 4 (for those binaries, not the libs of course)
[16:33] <seb128> yeah, I don't know enough about the specifics there to have an opinion
[16:33] <seb128> that would work I guess
[17:01] <Laney> good evening!
[17:02] <seb128> Laney, to you too!
[17:02] <seb128> happy climbing? ;-)
[17:03] <czajkowski> seb128: meeting --> over there
[17:03] <seb128> czajkowski, thanks
[17:03] <Laney> good guess
[17:03] <Laney> yeah sorry I'm leaving before this meeting
[17:03] <Laney> you can handle it!
[17:04] <seb128> trying to
[17:04] <seb128> let's see how that goes ;-)
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, have fun, see you tomorrow!
[17:04]  * czajkowski promises to be nice if you fix her bug :)
[17:04] <Laney> czajkowski: hopefully someone DMBish turns up
[17:05] <seb128> lol
[17:05] <czajkowski> Laney: if not we'll just keep talking to poor old seb128
[17:35] <thedoctor_> gay <<
[17:36] <thedoctor_> some ppl are touchy
[17:39] <czajkowski> see seb128 is still alive
[17:40] <seb128> lol
[17:40] <seb128> the CC indeed doesn't eat contributors ;-)
[17:42] <czajkowski> now if we could just fix the wee bug I hit daily especially on planes where I need to shut down machine and it restarts my life would be easier :)
[17:42] <seb128> kernel issue?
[17:43] <czajkowski> yeah known for a long time
[20:18] <Laney> czajkowski: do a catch up with the kernel team? ^o)
[20:26] <czajkowski> Laney: not a bad idea
[20:35] <stgraber> hey, so I'm still working on that unity8 in lxc stuff and I'm currently getting the following error when attempting to start unity8 as it is inside the latest desktop next image:
[20:35] <stgraber> Ubuntu Platform API: Unable to find module configuration file -- Aborting
[20:35] <stgraber> does that ring a bell to anyone?
[20:37] <Laney> not me
[20:37] <Laney> I'd ask ricmm
[20:37] <bregma> stgraber, are all your qtubuntu packages up-to-date?
[20:38] <stgraber> bregma: should be, the container is based on whatever was in the desktop-next image that I downloaded 10min ago
[20:38] <bregma> it sounds like a recent change to do with sensors might have caused that -- which is a ricmm thing
[20:39] <stgraber> oh, there are a bunch of available updates, let me apply those quickly. If that does the trick, I'll respin the desktop-next iso and retry from scratch.
[20:43] <stgraber> bregma: no change after a dist-upgrade. I guess I'll have to try and catch ricmm then


[07:05] <dholbach> good morning
[14:13] <freebug> Is there still a problem installing Ubuntu on a computer running windows 8?
[14:16] <freebug> Why is there no Wubi installer for Ubuntu 14.4
[20:00] <pompo> hola
[22:34] <thebackdoor> hello
[22:40] <thebackdoor> anyone here??
[22:47] <thebackdoor> anyone here??
[22:47] <thebackdoor> anyone here??