[12:01] <jon1012> lol yes, but I will try to put my system at 2.9.1 instead lol
[12:01] <seb128> good luck
[12:01] <seb128> you need to change gnomevfs, nautilus, panel, nautilus-cd-burner at this point
[12:01] <jon1012> yup
[12:01] <seb128> and you'll not but able to install new GNOME packages after that
[12:02] <jon1012> lol yes, but can I do the menu myself another way?
[12:02] <seb128> you should better wait for the new panel changes
[12:02] <jon1012> yup
[12:02] <jon1012> when will this be you think ?
[12:02] <seb128> live with the stock menus like everybody else in hoary ?
[12:02] <seb128> probably before the end of the month
[12:02] <jon1012> ok :)
[12:02] <seb128> dunno when exactly
[12:03] <seb128> BTW time to sleep
[12:03] <seb128> later
[12:03] <jon1012> the thing is that I need the development branch for a lot of libs in my developments
[12:03] <jon1012> see ya :)
[12:03] <jon1012> and thank you :)
[12:04] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use the netgear MA111 for wireless network?
[12:04] <mxpxpod> I'm having a problem where when I unplug it, /proc disappears
[12:04] <jon1012> hu ?
[12:04] <jon1012> nop I don't use it :(
[12:08] <chrisa> I need to find a wlan usb adapter that doesn't use wlan ng (ie: no ma111 or dwl-122)
[12:08] <chrisa> So tired of that driver
[12:08] <mxpxpod> chrisa: yeah, same here
[12:09] <mjg59> chrisa: Currently, that's awkward
[12:09] <mjg59> The CVS orinoco driver has support for some USB devices, but I think that's abou tit
[12:09] <mxpxpod> chrisa: I think there's one in dongle form that uses prism54 that I've thought about getting
[12:10] <chrisa> wlan ng wouldn't be so bad if the normal wireless tools worked with it
[12:10] <mxpxpod> hmm, it unmounted my /home dir as well
[12:10] <mxpxpod> but if I mount /proc and /home, everything is fine (I think)
[12:10] <chrisa> What makes you think the driver did this?
[12:11] <mxpxpod> chrisa: it's the only thing that does that when I unplug it
[12:11] <chrisa> and of course you're watching syslog and messages, rrrrrriiiggght?
[12:12] <mjg59> chrisa: We're seeing this with various wireless drivers
[12:13] <mjg59> It's very odd
[12:13] <chrisa> oh? Neat
[12:14] <jon1012> yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh MY HACK OF THE GNOME-PANEL WORKS :D
[12:14] <jon1012> oops excuse me :$
[12:14] <jon1012> lol
[12:15] <mxpxpod> mjg59: hmm, it only happens the first time I insert it
[12:15] <mxpxpod> after I remount everything, it doesn't seem to do it anymoer
[12:16] <mxpxpod> well, except that I can't remount swap, sysfs, tmpfs, or devpts
[12:26] <mxpxpod> mjg59: any clue as to why it's doing this?
[12:27] <mjg59> None
[12:27] <mjg59> I can't reproduce it here
[12:28] <mxpxpod> mjg59: that's strange
[12:29] <jon1012> humpf why does the had to change the gnome menu systeme in hoary yesterday ? :(
[12:29] <jon1012> all my apt database is broken and my gnome menu also :/
[12:31] <TD> hi, are there any forum admins here? i don't mean to interrupt but i was browsing them, and i noticed that one of the moderators (!) is consistently posting links to pirate packages of commercial linux software
[12:31] <TD> i was wondering who i should speak to about that
[12:32] <mjg59> TD: Is that ubuntuforums.org?
[12:32] <TD> yeah. not official?
[12:32] <mjg59> Nope
[12:32] <mjg59> Good thing to LART, though
[12:32] <TD> ah ok, i see. sorry, the branding made it look like a part of the main ubuntu forum
[12:32] <TD> s/forum/site/
[12:32] <mjg59> They gateway the mailing lists
[12:33] <jon1012> (what software did this administrator post links for ? :/)
[12:33] <TD> crossover and cedega
[12:33] <mxpxpod> chrisa: ok, so what am I looking for?
[12:33] <jon1012> erf ok :/
[12:33] <TD> russian warez sites
[12:33] <mjg59> Grah.
[12:33] <mjg59> Asking on #ubuntu might be a better bet
[12:33] <TD> k
[12:33] <mjg59> I'd expect some of them to hang out there
[12:33] <mjg59> Sorry about that :(
[12:34] <jon1012> bad, because if people want crossover, they can help and become advocate... :/
[12:34] <jon1012> if they want it without paying i mean :)
[12:34] <TD> yeah. we practically give it away these days
[12:34] <jon1012> yup
[12:34] <jon1012> I'm an advocate
[12:34] <jon1012> (a proud advocate in fact :p)
[12:34] <TD> it's 99.something% LGPL anyway. so it's kind of annoying to see people recommending that newbies warez it.
[12:34] <jon1012> sure...
[12:34] <TD> cool, what app?
[12:35] <jon1012> Photoshop 7 mainly :)
[12:35] <jon1012> I'm in a multimedia school, in graphic communication
[12:35] <jon1012> crossover is really great :)
[12:35] <TD> thanks
[12:36] <jon1012> really bad that people want to go to pirate sites for it :(
[12:36] <TD> it happens. some of them even try and get tech support.
[12:36] <TD> using linux doesn't magically change (some) human nature, unfortunately
[12:36] <jon1012> (they don't understand that they kill wine and crossover doing this)
[12:36] <jon1012> yes :(
[12:36] <lamont_r> sucky connectivity. :-(
[12:37] <TD> i think we'll survive. have done for a fair few years now, and more corporate work is coming in these days. those dudes play it straight
[12:38] <jon1012> td > if you want any help, contact me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(my advocate adress is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but it's my old adress ^^)
[12:39] <Kamion> mxpxpod: lamont has been tracking down the unmounting problem and knows roughly where it is now; it's apparently in one of the udev scripts
[12:39] <TD> thanks :)
[12:39] <lamont_r> Kamion: or at least apparently so.
[12:39] <mxpxpod> Kamion: oh really... so udev is being a brat
[12:39] <Kamion> mxpxpod: /etc/dev.d/default/ somewhere
[12:40] <lamont_r> that is, fixing the script to not generate an error from umount (and therefore exit with an error, appears to make the problem go away
[12:41] <lamont_r>  /etc/dev.d/default/unmount.dev or so.
[12:41] <lamont_r> wrap the whole thing in if [ -n "$DEVICE"] ; then ... fi
[12:41] <lamont_r> or whatever the name is...
[12:44] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: that works for me
[12:44] <mxpxpod> just modified it and unplugged then re-plugged my usb device and it doesn't unmount everything
[12:44] <lamont_r> woot
[12:44] <mxpxpod> and it's $DEVNAME
[12:45] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: have you figured out the problem with udev unmounting /dev before unmounting the drives yet?
[12:45] <lamont_r> now, for extra credit, add an else clause that says 'exit 1'
[12:45] <lamont_r> and see if it once again trashes everything...
[12:45] <lamont_r> that's fixed in 2.12j
[12:45] <lamont_r> although you want -2, not -1 if you use cryptoloop devices
[12:46] <mxpxpod> 2.12j?
[12:46] <lamont_r> 2.12j-2
[12:46] <mxpxpod> of what?
[12:46] <lamont_r> fixed upstream - mount_2.12j-2_${arch}.deb
[12:47] <lamont_r> er, for hoary that's mount_2.12j-2ubuntu1_${arch}.deb
[12:47] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: ah, gotcha
[12:47] <sid77> bye all
[12:47] <lamont_r> I don't remember if that fix made todays dinstall run in debian or not, but -2ubuntu1 is certainly in hoary
[12:49] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: adding that else doesn't trash everything
[12:50] <lamont_r> very interesting
[12:51] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: wait... where did you want that else?
[12:51] <lamont_r> Kamion: you need things much beyond 1AM (9 minutes from now...)?
[12:51] <lamont_r> actually, you'll still have connectivity, it'll just get more sucky.
[12:53] <lamont_r> mxpxpod: when $DEVNAME==""
[12:53] <lamont_r> that is, as an else clause for the if that you just added...
[12:53] <Kamion> lamont_r: pretty sucks already ... ;)
[12:53] <mxpxpod> lamont_r: ok, yeah, that's what I added...
[12:53] <Kamion> lamont_r: nah, should go to sleep
[12:58] <lamont_r> Kamion: seems happy again.
[12:58] <lamont_r> anyway, off to ned/
[12:58] <lamont_r> bed even
[12:58] <Kamion> yep, working here ...
[12:59] <mxpxpod> nite lamont_r, thanks for the help
[01:12] <jon1012> oh another thing
[01:13] <jon1012> I've succesfully modified the ubuntu kernel to work wth my asus laptop
[01:13] <jon1012> (it didn't work at all at first: no acpi, no sound, no usb...)
[01:13] <jon1012> if the ubuntu kernel maintainers are here, maybe I can discuss about it
[01:32] <sladen> ~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~
[01:33] <chrisa> sladen just doesn't impress me
[01:33] <jon1012> lol
[01:47] <sladen> f***^W fabulous wifi here
[01:47] <jon1012> ? lol
[02:00] <ogra> hehe
[02:02] <ogra> sladen: which floor ?
[02:02] <ogra> 1st is great :)
[05:46] <farruinn> is there some sort of tracking system that shows which maintainer is working on what?
[08:57] <ironwolf> lamont_r: your wife is looking for you, call her when you awake.
[09:43] <Treenaks> is it intentional that "bazaar" and "bizarre" sound the same?
[09:51] <Keybuk> you should try it in a NZ accent ... very confusing
[09:51] <daniels> 'i gotta git muh nit!'
[09:56] <fabbione> daniels: x is building.. i will let you know how it goes later
[09:56] <Keybuk> 'igs, on tarst'
[09:57] <Kamion> Treenaks: at least semi-intentional I think
[10:01] <mdz> elmo: so what kind of coercion do you need in order to make ubuntu-keyring?
[10:02] <Treenaks> btw, who said the "laptop turns on again after closing lid after shutdown" thing will be fixed n 2.6.10?
[10:02] <Treenaks> (because I have a problem that I think is related)
[10:05] <lamont_r> someone please throw things at thom
[10:05] <thom> Kamion: dude, you coming? :-)
[10:05] <thom> lamont_r: why?
[10:05] <lamont_r> could we please have Options FollowSymlinks on p.u.c?
[10:05] <Kamion> thom: oh yeah
[10:06] <thom> i think we have SymlinksIfOwnerMatch currently, but i could be mistaken
[10:06] <thom> Kamion: can you poke sladen on the way?
[10:08] <Kamion> thom: too late
[10:08] <Kamion> thom: we don't, just 'Options Indexes' and that disables all the others
[10:08] <Keybuk> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9098
[10:15] <Kamion> dpkg-gencontrol: error: package linux-image-2.6.9-1-mckinley not in control info
[10:15] <Kamion> make[2] : *** [real_stamp_image]  Error 255
[10:15] <Kamion> d'oh
[10:16] <fabbione> yup
[10:16] <fabbione> already fixed in my tree
[10:16] <fabbione> bad merge from halley to my local stuff
[10:17] <fabbione> Kamion: look at the positive side... the ccache is populated :-)
[10:18] <fabbione> ARGH
[10:18] <fabbione> Kamion: you just trashed my initrd tool upload
[10:18] <lamont_r> grumble.
[10:19] <Treenaks> jdub: http://foodfight.org/fotos/2004/12-07%20Ubuntu%20Conference%20-%20evening/?img_0003.jpg
[10:20] <fabbione> Kamion: since you have the initrd tools tree local.. can you apply the second patch from #4444 please?
[10:20] <fabbione> the mirror is syncing or out-of-sync atm
[10:20] <Kamion> fabbione: hah
[10:20] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, will do, didn't realise you were working on it
[10:20] <Kamion> sorry 'bout that
[10:20] <fabbione> no problem mate :-)
[10:20] <fabbione> i didn't know you were on it either :P
[10:22] <fabbione> Failed to fetch http://mataro.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:22] <fabbione> mataros mirror master?
[10:22] <lamont_r> I expect that's a thom question...
[10:23] <Mithrandir> fabbione: just throw something at him
[10:23] <Kamion> I just operate mataro.ubuntu.com by lftp personally :)
[10:23] <fabbione> Kamion: wow :-)
[10:24] <smurfix_> Gah. "Unpacking gnome-menus: trying to overwrite `/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu', which is also in package kdelibs-data". My fault for still having some kde stuff installed, I know, but still ...
[10:25] <Kamion> fabbione: done
[10:25] <fabbione> Kamion: rocking
[10:28] <daniels> fabbione: cheers
[10:30] <seb128> smurfix, any idea on how to fix that ?
[10:32] <jdub> Treenaks: ha ha
[10:33] <Keybuk> Treenaks: heh, that's not unusual
[10:33] <Keybuk> it's the photos of jdub where he's *not* pulling a silly face that are rare
[10:33] <Treenaks> Keybuk: :)
[10:48] <jdub> fabbione: http://www.saillard.org/linux/pwc/
[10:48] <fabbione> applying patch dsdt-initrd to ./ ... ok.
[10:48] <fabbione> applying patch swsusp-userspace to ./ ... ok.
[10:48] <fabbione> applying patch wakeup_addr to ./ ... ok.
[10:48] <fabbione> applying patch wakeup_gdt to ./ ... ok.
[10:50] <fabbione> jdub: i am on it
[10:50] <azeem> jdub: pong
[11:03] <jdub> fabbione: sweet, thank you :-)
[11:03] <fabbione> jdub: applying patch drivers-usb-pwc to ./ ... ok.
[11:05] <fabbione> Keybuk: sorry but i am way faster than your merge-omatic :P
[11:07] <jdub> haha
[11:09] <jdub> fabbione is metal!
[11:09] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[11:10] <fabbione> ahha
[11:13] <Keybuk> yeah, and I'm pudding
[11:13] <Kamion> you wish
[11:13] <daniels> keybuk aspires to be pudding
[11:14] <thom> elmo: do you have l33t bzip2 support for katie, yet?
[11:14] <elmo> no - it's not katie that's the problem, it's python-apt
[11:14] <fabbione> mjg59: ping
[11:14] <thom> ahr :/
[11:16] <Keybuk> nah, I aspire to be pudded
[11:19] <mjg59> fabbione: Hi
[11:22] <fabbione> mjg59: hey. all your patches aplly perfectly
[11:22] <mjg59> Woo
[11:22] <fabbione> mjg59: CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND is the one we need for swsup-userspace, right?
[11:22] <mjg59> Yup
[11:22] <fabbione> it's in for i386/amd64
[11:22] <fabbione> :-)))
[11:22] <mjg59> And there's an option for the DSDT in initrd stuff, too
[11:23] <fabbione> initrd-tools is uploaded
[11:23] <fabbione> mjg59: done that too :-)
[11:23] <fabbione> i am alligning the config
[11:23] <fabbione> once that is done i will upload
[11:23] <fabbione> question of a few hours
[11:24] <Kamion> and then we get a debian-installer/ia64 build attempt \o/
[11:25] <fabbione> Kamion: yup.. that too
[11:25] <fabbione> Kamion: i promised that we were going to push lamont to put d-i in dep-wait :P
[11:26] <mjg59> thom: How was the laptop BOF?
[11:26] <Kamion> seems to be that way
[11:26] <thom> mjg59: went ok, it seems
[11:27] <lamont_r> mjg59: almost everyone had one. :-)
[11:27] <mjg59> thom: Any conclusions?
[11:27] <calc> acpi sucks ;)
[11:28] <thom> mjg59: mdz wrote some notes - https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LaptopSupportA
[11:28] <thom> gar
[11:29] <thom> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LaptopSupportAndPowerManagement
[11:29] <thom> even
[11:29] <mjg59> I'm unsure about StR being default
[11:30] <mjg59> ibm-acpi is needed for 2.6.9, but not for 2.6.10
[11:30] <fabbione>   Default resume partition (PM_STD_PARTITION) []  (NEW)
[11:30] <fabbione> mjg59: ?
[11:30] <mjg59> fabbione: Null
[11:30] <fabbione> ok
[11:30] <thom> mjg59: we took a quick strawpoll, and 90% of the room wanted it
[11:30] <thom> if it's really bad, we can back off again
[11:31] <mjg59> thom: It /is/ going to break on various machines, and people are unlikely to be happy if their machine breaks every time they close it
[11:31] <mjg59> 2.6.10 only enables lapic if the BIOS enabled it. I'm not sure if that's in 2.6.9. It's a safe default, anyway.
[11:32] <mjg59> (as I said before, I'm not keen on shipping dsdts. It's /difficult/ to get right, and we plainly have no legal right to do so)
[11:33] <tuo2> is drinking red wine chilled a bad idea?
[11:33] <fabbione> mjg59: isn't that the patch you gave to me yesterday?
[11:33] <thom> tuo2: yes.
[11:33] <mjg59> fabbione: the lapic one? Nope. That disables it on power-off if the user forced it on.
[11:33] <tuo2> thom: any reasoning?"
 Every time they upgrade their BIOS, they potentially need a new DSDT.
[11:35] <tuo2> And this wasn't real good....
[11:35] <thom> mjg59: yah
[11:36] <tuo2> might be better off killing the palette
[11:36] <calc> you could take all the data that has to be there and plug it into skeleton dsdt so that the code doesn't infringe copyright i suppose
[11:36] <thom> tuo2: this is well off topic
[11:36] <tuo2> thom: true. Sorry.
[11:36] <thom> mjg59: like i said, handwavy
[11:36] <calc> the dsdt is generated dynamically by the bios?
[11:37] <calc> i didn't notice that part when reading the acpi spec, eyes must have glassed over
[11:37] <mjg59> calc: It tends to be. The spec doesn't require it.
[11:37] <calc> oh ok
[11:37] <Treenaks> usplash with "wait & switch" is very nice, except for https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1842 :)
[11:40] <daniels> Treenaks: that's not a problem, because it was never switched
[11:40] <daniels> so you never had access to the card
[11:40] <daniels> try running your gdm with -novtswitch on your X server command line
[11:43] <robtaylor|away> mjg59: dont suppose you fancy collecting together a bunch of diffs between fixed and original dsdts? ;)
[11:44] <mjg59> robtaylor: About as much as I fancy plucking my eyes out, but yeah
[11:45] <robtaylor> yeah, i suppose the only 2 sane opttions are either a) make dsdt interpreter more robust or b) store a diff for each bios version of each machine (and hope diffs help us avoid the ram issue.. ) :/
[11:46] <robtaylor> a bunch of diffs would help in either case ;)
[11:46] <calc> i think it got somewhat more robust after ~ 2.6.6
[11:46] <mjg59> It did
[11:46] <robtaylor> calc: still doesnt work on my laptop ;)
[11:46] <mjg59> But there's a reasonable argument for making it bug-for-bug compatible with Windows
[11:46] <calc> my laptop was completely broken in numerous ways and i filed a bunch of bug reports about it at osdl and len fixed them for me :)
[11:47] <calc> eg now the acpi ports are reserved by default
[11:47] <calc> instead of getting reused for various things like cardbus
[11:47] <calc> mjg59: yep
[11:47] <mjg59> But upstream won't do that
[11:48] <calc> upstream is slowly doing it ;)
[11:48] <calc> as each new device which is broken has bug reports filed about it
[11:48] <mjg59> calc: No, they won't make it fully bug-compatible with the Windows stack
[11:49] <calc> so they are refusing to fix bugs that are shown in particular hardware now?
[11:49] <robtaylor> mjg59: well nothing to stop us making a 2.6.x-acpi bitkeeper branch....
[11:50] <mjg59> calc: No, that's fine
[11:50] <calc> ok
[11:50] <calc> well being bug for bug compatible isn't really needed as long as all laptops work under linux ;)
[11:50] <mjg59> But they won't alter the interpreter so it behaves brokenly
[11:50] <mjg59> And that's the only way to be compatible with Windows
[11:50] <calc> eventually linux will be bug for bug compatible to be able to attain that goal
[11:51] <elmo> mmph, alt-tab is broken for me
[11:52] <seb128> broken in which way ?
[11:53] <robtaylor> calc: if you submit a bug. 1st thing you're told is to find a 'fixed' dsdt//
[11:53] <robtaylor> it seems
[11:53] <seb128> 'night calc
[11:53] <robtaylor> night calc
[11:53] <elmo> seb128: I can't switch windows, it flashes up briefly but disappears again immediately
[11:54] <seb128> weird
[11:54] <robtaylor> ooh, broken X11 package flashback =)
[11:54] <seb128> the alt-tab seems to send the right event in xv ?
[11:54] <seb128> xev even
[11:55] <calc> robtaylor: hmm they never mentioned that to me, linus even emailed me wrt the io port issue ;)
[11:55] <mjg59> calc: But that was actually an acpi bug
[11:56] <calc> yea, previously they solved the io port issue via quirks for every chipset (gag)
[11:56] <mjg59> Whereas on lots of machines the dsdt isn't anywhere near spec-compliant
[11:56] <calc> but my dsdt also was broken in various interesting ways which they worked around
[11:56] <elmo> seb128: err, not sure xev seems a bit whack too.. i'll upgrade, then login/logut, and if I can reproduce, come and show you
[11:56] <seb128> ok
[11:56] <calc> i don't remember the exact details since it was about 6mo ago
[11:57] <mjg59> calc: There's a limit to the dsdt workarounds you can do that are guaranteed to be safe
[11:57] <calc> their were weird irq issues though
[11:57] <calc> er there
[11:57] <mjg59> The Windows interpreter allows accesses that are invalid, presumably hoping that the dsdt never actually does something bad with them
[11:57] <calc> iirc the irq query returned invalid data or something like that
[11:57] <mjg59> Linux forbids that
[11:57] <calc> ah
[12:06] <amu> ack
[12:06] <seb128> thom, is the internet connection broken ?
[12:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: no
[12:06] <seb128> I can't ping anything
[12:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: but check your name server settings
[12:06] <elmo> I can't seem to make new connections
[12:06] <seb128> but my IRC is still working ...
[12:07] <Mithrandir> worksforme
[12:07] <lamont_r> what about by IP?
[12:07] <seb128> works again
[12:07] <elmo> yeah
[12:09] <elmo> and gone again.  meh
[12:11] <seb128> thom, fix the connection dude !!
[12:11] <thom> i would love to if i could :P
[12:11] <seb128> you're useless :p
[12:12] <seb128> and that works again :)
[12:12] <thom> screw YOU HIPPEH
[12:12] <thom> so it does. cool
[12:13] <Keybuk> seb128: fix gnome-panel, dude!
[12:19] <seb128> daniels, I need an xorg patch out of the 855resolution stuff ?
[12:21] <daniels> seb128: you shouldn't, no
[12:21] <daniels> seb128: it's just a tiny binary that you run and it craps all over your video BIOS and hopefully makes it work
[12:39] <rburton> jdub: poke poke
[12:40] <seb128> hey rburton
[12:40] <rburton> hi seb128
[12:41] <seb128> are you going to complain about me breaking the panel ? :p
[12:42] <rburton> i'm running warty on my ubuntu box, and my sid box has the 2.9 panel on
[12:42] <seb128> ok ;)
[12:42] <Treenaks> ah... don't you just _love_ Mac newlines...
[12:47] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.9-1-itanium' in `../linux-image-2.6.9-1-itanium_2.6.9-3_ia64.deb'.
[12:47] <fabbione> MUCH BETTER
[12:50] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[12:50] <Treenaks> hey sivang
[12:55] <mjg59> So now we just need some more acpi love in acpi-support
[12:56] <mjg59> And a touch more acpi love in initrd-tools
[12:56] <Treenaks> we need some acpi love for my laptop.. so it doesn't suspend right after coming back from suspend (nice feature..)
[12:58] <fabbione> Kamion : dpkg-deb: building package `nic-modules-2.6.9-1-itanium-smp-di' in `../nic-modules-2.6.9-1-itanium-smp-di_2.6.9-3_ia64.udeb'.
[01:00] <mjg59> Treenaks: Mm. That one is a bit odd.
[01:01] <Treenaks> mjg59: could be a BIOS bug, the thing's 5 years old
[01:01] <mjg59> Treenaks: It would be good if you could add stuff to /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and try to find out how it's being called
[01:01] <Kamion> fabbione: nyahaha
[01:01] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'm running with the "suspend howto" scripts from the wiki
[01:02] <rburton> mjg59: it appears that when my x22 is using acpi, it won't auto-suspend when the battery is about to die (it did with apm). can i work around this with an acpi script?
[01:02] <mjg59> rburton: Yes
[01:02] <koke> is there any wiki page to look for sharing hotel rooms?
[01:03] <koke> I just want to sleep there at 11th
[01:03] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ah. Can you try the ones from my acpi-support package?
[01:03] <Mithrandir> koke: it's at the bottom of the attendees page, I think
[01:03] <Treenaks> mjg59: url?
[01:03] <mjg59> Treenaks: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/
[01:04] <mjg59> rburton: Well, ish. You need something to monitor battery state and trigger suspend. I think kinnison has something to do that.
[01:04] <koke> Mithrandir: that's for hostels, I'd like a double room
[01:04] <koke> but it's too big for me :)
[01:04] <koke> and too expensive
[01:06] <fabbione> mjg59: everything compiled without any problem.
[01:06] <mjg59> fabbione: Yay
[01:08] <Treenaks> mjg59: does your script do suspend to ram or disk?
[01:08] <mjg59> Treenaks: Both
[01:09] <Treenaks> mjg59: on lid close?
[01:10] <mjg59> Treenaks: Oh, right. RAM, though that's configurable.
[01:10] <sladen> thom: http://seehuhn.de/comp/bootlog.html
[01:10] <Treenaks> mjg59: it looks like lid.sh only does blanking
[01:12] <mjg59> Treenaks: Oh, right. Just change /etc/acpi/events/lid to run sleep.sh
[01:12] <mjg59> fabbione: So that stuff'll be uploaded soon?
[01:12] <mjg59> thom: laptop_mode used to have a function to dump any pid that did a write to disk
[01:31] <Keybuk> I can't find *anything* on these new menus
[01:31] <Keybuk> arghhhhhhh
[01:32] <Keybuk> someone feed seb amphetamines and make him code faster :p
[01:34] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am sure he will accept patches..
[01:34] <fabbione> ;)
[01:36] <fabbione> drivers/input/cpad/cpadconfig.h:40:3: warning: #warning : Framebuffer disabled. Compile kernel with CONFIG_FB and CONFIG_FB_VESA to enable it.
[01:36] <fabbione> daniels: ^^^^
[01:38] <sivang> hey seb128
[01:38] <sivang> seb128 : you in the big room? :)
[01:38] <seb128> no
[01:38] <seb128> in the BOF room
[01:38] <sivang> seb128 : is there still  USPlash BOF?
[01:40] <bob2> is cpad the crazy lcd-touchpad thing?
[01:42] <fabbione> yeah
[01:46] <bob2> ah
[01:47] <mjg59> fabbione: Is -3 in the archive yet?
[01:48] <fabbione> mjg59: no. i am still waiting the 2 turtles to finish the test build
[01:49] <fabbione> it shouldn't take too long
[01:50] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[01:52] <bob2> 4
[01:56] <daniels> fabbione: worship the crack
[01:56] <fabbione> ah talking of crack
[01:57] <fabbione> let me check xorg on sparc
[01:57] <fabbione> it's building
[01:57] <fabbione> but i am sure it will take a while
[01:58] <fabbione> running make -j 8 on the kernel + buildd + xorg
[01:58] <fabbione> on one single cpu
[01:58] <fabbione> is NOT sane
[01:58] <fabbione> Mem:    512648k total,   488840k used,    23808k free,    25376k buffers
[01:58] <fabbione> Swap:  1027008k total,        0k used,  1027008k free,   185352k cached
[01:58] <fabbione> and i can't manage to make it swap
[01:58] <fabbione> it's amazing
[01:59] <daniels> ls
[01:59] <daniels> erk, ww
[02:00] <fabbione> sparc > *
[02:00] <fabbione> CPU WAR
[02:01] <elmo> WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR??
[02:01] <elmo> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
[02:01] <fabbione> elmo: GO BACK TO YOUR PPC
[02:02] <fabbione> seriously... i think it's a kernel bug
[02:02] <fabbione> i need to check on 2.6.9
[02:02] <fabbione> as soon as *cough*someone*cough* will free my testing harddisk
[02:04] <fabbione> the sparc kernel needs some extra config love
[02:04] <fabbione> *sigh*
[02:05] <pitti> fabbione: I know a good program which makes much of free space
[02:05] <pitti> fabbione: :-)
[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: so do i :-)
[02:06] <pitti> fabbione: this reminds me about the thing we used to say to students who sat in front of a Linux machine for the first time
[02:06] <pitti> fabbione: "rm -rf *" -> read mail, really fast, all mails
[02:07] <fabbione> ahha
[02:08] <sivang> pitti : heheh
[02:08] <sivang> fabbione : that's what I do , it works like a charm and I am able to read all my mails in time
[02:08] <sivang> :)
[02:09] <lamont_r> pitti: I typed that on a machine a few weeks back (as root, in /) just for fun.
[02:09] <sivang> lamont_r : did you have the /boot partition under that also?
[02:09] <pitti> lamont: ??? doesn't sound like much fun
[02:09] <lamont_r> sivang: one partition.
[02:09] <sivang> it is if you're into reinstalling your system :)
[02:09] <fabbione> lamont_r: i did that when i left my first telco company on the 2 servers i was administering
[02:09] <fabbione> they managed to run for a few hours without disks :-)
[02:10] <lamont_r> was about to flatline the machine, so I was playing with it...
[02:10] <lamont_r> was interesting to see what was left behind (busy text files)
[02:10] <lamont_r> er, a.outs
[02:11] <sivang> I once had my gf's Win32 partition mounted under /mnt , then I forgot to umount and rm -r -v -f /mnt :)
[02:11] <sivang> luckily at least her uni docs were backed up in her mail account...
[02:11] <lamont_r> sivang: and you were still together after that?
[02:12] <seb128> sivang, no
[02:12] <sivang> lamont_r : hehe, I had to buy her a dinner, take her on vacation, and take some "why do you have to PLAY with stuff all the time, ha?" and then it passed :)
[02:13] <sivang> kidding
[02:13] <sivang> :)
[02:13] <sivang> she just wanted me to stop playing "liunux games" on her machine, I tried to explain her that what happened is a wonderful example for it's streangth :)
[02:14] <sivang> anyway, people of the bof room, I'm coming up.
[02:45] <mjg59> Damnit. mkinitrd doesn't have stubs to call stuff after it's generated the image
[02:47] <Kamion> lamont_r: sbuild fixed, I think ...
[02:47] <elmo> daniels: done
[02:47] <Keybuk> ooh, new ITALIAN KERNELS
[02:48] <Kamion> FICHISSIMO
[02:48] <fabbione> AHHA
[02:49] <fabbione> mjg59: eh?
[02:49] <daniels> elmo: thanks dude
[02:50] <mjg59> fabbione: The last thing mkinitrd does is send the image to stdout (or a file). But we need to be able to append the DSDT to that.
[02:51] <fabbione> the strange feeling is that i don't feel addicted to the kernel as much as i felt for X
[02:51] <jdub_> oh, -3 is uploaded?
[02:51] <Treenaks> fabbione: not yet.. not yet... <evil laugh>
[02:51] <mjg59> jdub_: Can you do something for me?
[02:52] <fabbione> mjg59: good point
[02:52] <fabbione> jdub_: yes.. with the pwc driver too
[02:52] <fabbione> Treenaks. DIE!
[02:52] <fabbione> :P
[02:53] <fabbione> mjg59: in any case it will take a few hours to get the kernel up, if you prepare a patch we can upload the new initrd-tools
[02:53] <fabbione> and i will bump again the version in -4
[02:53] <Keybuk>  Yeah, you're gonna have to face it, you're addicted to X
[02:53] <mjg59> fabbione: This bit's less important
[02:53] <jdub_> mjg59: yo
[02:53] <mjg59> It's only for people like jdub
[02:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am going slowly out of that tunnel
[02:53] <bob2> *totally* addicted to bass^wX
[02:54] <fabbione> mjg59: jdub is special.. we know that.. (also ugly.. but.. hey..)
[02:54] <mjg59> jdub: Edit /usr/sbin/mkinitrd and add to the end:
[02:54] <mjg59> echo -n INITRDDSDT123DSDT123
[02:54] <mjg59> cat /boot/DSDT.aml
[02:54] <mjg59> echo -n INITRDDSDT321DSDT321
[02:54] <mjg59> Except use proper quotes, not my funky ones
[02:54] <jdub> heh
[02:54] <Keybuk> irssi-plugins-of-doom
[02:55] <thom> mdz wants better crack
[02:55] <mjg59> jdub: But make sure you have latest initrd-tools and 2.6.9-3
[02:55] <Keybuk> fabbione: ah, that's what you're laughing so hard about
[02:55] <Treenaks> mjg59: we should patch the shell to accept those quotes!
[02:55] <daniels> crack me harder
[02:55] <fabbione> thom: ?
[02:55] <jdub> mjg59: at the very end?
[02:55] <Mithrandir> mjg59: why use quotes at all?
[02:55] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah
[02:55] <jdub> ok
[02:55] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Because I'm cutting and pasting off a website
[02:55] <jdub> 2.6.9-3 doesn't seem to be in the archive yet
[02:56] <mjg59> jdub: Haha
[02:56] <mjg59> Wait for it to hit, then
[02:56] <fabbione> jdub: it will take 2/3 hours to be in the archive
[02:56] <mjg59> Oh, and put your DSDT in /boot/DSDT.aml
[02:56] <fabbione> jdub: probably less if ccache will hit harder
[02:56] <mjg59> Hmm. Where should we ask users to put fixed DSDTs?
[02:56] <fabbione> thom: what kind of crack does mdz wants?
[02:56] <fabbione> want even
[02:56] <mjg59> /boot doesn't seem great
[02:57] <thom> fabbione: block optimisation and reading
[02:57] <thom> ie, get the kernel to tell us what pages/blocks its reading from during boot, and then reuse that
[02:57] <fabbione> thom: ok.. you need andrew morton for stuff like that
[02:58] <Mithrandir> I've been thinking about doing a crack-optimization for ext3.. like what MOSX is doing.
[02:58] <jdub> mjg59: /etc/mkinitrd...?
[02:58] <fabbione> thom: i was more concerned to make that patch a bootoption to switch it on/off
[02:59] <mjg59> jdub: Eww
[02:59] <thom> fabbione: yeah, i wouldn't bother right now
[02:59] <fabbione> thom: ok..
[02:59] <fabbione> up to you 2 guys
[02:59] <daniels> Keybuk: bring your laptop to the bof room and we won't hit you with an orange of destiny
[02:59] <thom> sorry, shouldve said
[03:00] <thom> Keybuk: alternatively, tell us where you are
[03:00] <Treenaks> thom: there are 4 rooms.. can't you search? :P
[03:00] <Keybuk> I might be Lamonting
[03:00] <daniels> Keybuk: your hp is so incredibly superior we need to steal it
[03:00] <thom> Treenaks: LAZINESS IS A VIRTUE
[03:00] <daniels> and its radeon mobility
[03:00] <Treenaks> thom: only for Perl people
[03:00] <thom> Keybuk: kamion was looking for lamont
[03:00] <Kamion> yeah, he knows
[03:01] <mjg59> daniels: You need to steal its flawless ACPI support?
[03:01] <daniels> mjg59: vbe is not quick
[03:01] <mjg59> daniels: No
[03:01] <daniels> we want to see how quick boot is with my make-gdm-quicker crack
[03:01] <mjg59> It's not
[03:01] <daniels> and an actual video chipset
[03:01] <mjg59> Haha
[03:01] <daniels> i855 is like the american beer of chipsets
[03:01] <mjg59> If users are switching back and forth from X, they deserve to lose
[03:01] <thom> we wish to bestow bootchart love upon you
[03:01] <daniels> mjg59: bootup, dude
[03:01] <mjg59> Oh man
[03:02] <Keybuk> but boot isn't slow?
[03:02] <daniels> we can make it faster :)
[03:02] <mjg59> With VBERestore on, switching to console takes well under a second
[03:02] <Kamion> PRACTICALLY INSTANTANEOUS
[03:02] <mjg59> Haha
[03:02] <Keybuk> you're going to kick ALSA in the head and make it take less than 15s to modprobe the module?
[03:03] <daniels> Keybuk: it sleeps for some reason
[03:03] <mjg59> They're going to add & to the end of every modprobe
[03:03] <thom> Keybuk: coincidentally, i'm just about to find jordi
[03:03] <thom> mjg59: *giggle*
[03:03] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that'll be solved by hotplug, won't it?
[03:03] <thom> udevd for great justice
[03:04] <Mithrandir> uhm, yeah, udevd.
[03:04] <Keybuk> yo udevd, it's your birthday!
[03:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: Stop or I will kill you
[03:09] <seb128> elmo, zenity sync please
[03:09] <elmo> seb128: done
[03:10] <Mithrandir> am I the only one in the world who doesn't have an INBOX in my mail and think that any mail client that forces you to have one si insane?
[03:10] <daniels> Mithrandir: no
[03:10] <Keybuk> mail clients force you to have one?
[03:10] <seb128> elmo, thanks
[03:10] <Kamion> lrwxrwxrwx    1 cjwatson cjwatson       18 Jun  8  2004 INBOX -> /var/mail/cjwatson
[03:10] <Kamion> lrwxrwxrwx    1 cjwatson cjwatson       18 Jun  8  2004 inbox -> /var/mail/cjwatson
[03:11] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: what kind of evil and wrong client/server combination are you using?
[03:12] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I won't think how m-t is going to freak out if I remove INBOX.  And besides, it might very well start up in a folder, but make that be configurable, preferably with %Y and similar magic
[03:12] <Keybuk> m-t?
[03:12] <Keybuk> oh, THUNDERBIRD
[03:12] <Keybuk> I still can't get over how they chose that as their mail client name, after fucking around trying to find someone that wasn't already used for Firefox
[03:13] <Treenaks> Keybuk: you mean Moongorilla/
[03:13] <Kamion> THUNDERPANTS
[03:13] <sivang> hehe
[03:13] <Mithrandir> it's one of the less insane clients.
[03:13] <daniels> Kamion: you know that was an actual movie, yeah?
[03:13] <Kamion> I just googled for it
[03:13] <daniels> Keybuk: 'firethingy'
[03:13] <Kamion> http://www.thunderwear.co.nz/go/home/index.cfm
[03:14] <daniels> Kamion: it was a movie about some kid who couldn't stop farting
[03:14] <daniels> seriously
[03:14] <fabbione> anybody has a freshmeat account?
[03:14] <Treenaks> fabbione: that depends, why? :)
[03:14] <fabbione> Treenaks: downloading a wm theme.
[03:15] <Treenaks> fabbione: you can't download without an account?
[03:15] <Treenaks> that's crack
freshmeat in crack shocker</keybuk>
[03:15] <fabbione> Treenaks: nope.. it tells you that it is a login only area
[03:15] <fabbione> probably because it's a horror theme or something
[03:15] <Treenaks> scary
[03:15] <fabbione> violence and crap like that
[03:15] <Mithrandir> jdub: you're wanted in s3kr1t channel.
[03:16] <fabbione> i am just too lazy to: a) register, b) go in my room to pick up the dvd and do one myself
[03:17] <fabbione> i guess i will opt for the second one later today
[03:18] <lupus_> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/polypaudio-alsa_0.7-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[03:18] <lupus_>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/polypaudio-0.7/libalsa-util.la', which is also in package polypaudio
[03:18] <lupus_> Preparing to replace polypaudio-x11 0.6-1ubuntu1 (using .../polypaudio-x11_0.7-0ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
[03:19] <fabbione> ahhh got it
[03:19] <Kamion> anyone want to provide text for the comment above hoary-updates in the default /etc/apt/sources.list? (#3122)
[03:21] <seb128> jdub, you broke polypaudio dude :p
[03:22] <mjg59> Man, that jdub breaks everything
[03:22] <lupus_> wasn't polyaudio at version 0.10?
[03:25] <fabbione> Kamion: hmmm difficult problem...
[03:25] <fabbione> Kamion: i am more for "let's add them"
[03:26] <Kamion> fabbione: argue with mdz
[03:26] <Kamion> :)
[03:26] <Kamion> ## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch major bug fix updates produced
[03:26] <Kamion> ## after the final release of the distribution.
[03:27] <Kamion> fabbione: one problem is that hoary-updates doesn't actually exist right now, so just adding it is a touch problematic
[03:27] <jdub> ahr
[03:27] <jdub> badness
[03:27] <fabbione> Kamion: don't we have our ftpmaster here around anyway? ;)
[03:28] <rburton> mvo: ping?
[03:28] <mvo> rburton: pong
[03:28] <Kamion> sure, he's busy just now though
[03:28] <Kamion> we can always change it later, plenty of time for base-config changes
[03:28] <rburton> mvo: got an arch repos for gnome-app-install going online now if you want to hack
[03:28] <fabbione> i would still prefer to have them commented out
[03:28] <mvo> cool, can you send me the adress and stuff?
[03:29] <Mithrandir> is there a howto on how to maintain debian packages in arch somewhere?
[03:29] <rburton> mvo: whats your email?
[03:29] <mvo><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:29] <lifeless> Mithrandir: manoj has one.
[03:30] <Mithrandir> lifeless: on p.d.o?
[03:30] <mvo> rburton: thanks a lot!
[03:33] <lifeless> Mithrandir: dunno
[03:33] <seb128> thom, say to jordi that he's supposed to upload a new howl instead of hanging around
[03:34] <daniels> seb128: no, he has to fix alsa first
[03:35] <seb128> ah ah
[03:59] <sivang> seb128 : has anything happened to the "Programming" menu entry on the applications menu? I can'f find it anymore, nor I don't get it when installing the devhelp-book stuff, or the glade authoring environment.
[04:06] <seb128> sivang, same here
[04:07] <sivang> seb128 : strange, at home I have also a hoary and I have this menu item, anything intentionally changed or a sid sync on the menus?
[04:07] <trulux> hi
[04:07] <trulux> lamont, hey
[04:09] <seb128> daniels, grrrr, you have still not fixed the fd specifications !!
[04:10] <seb128> hopefully google cache is nice :)
[04:10] <trulux> hi mdz
[04:10] <fabbione> parsechangelog/debian: warning: unknown urgency value crack - comparing very low, at changelog line 1
[04:10] <fabbione> hmm
[04:11] <fabbione> elmo: can we fix that?
[04:11] <daniels> seb128: WEFRPOI#@$WQDFEWaesfiu
[04:11] <daniels> seb128: which spec do you desire a copy of?
[04:11] <seb128> menu-spec would be nice ;)
[04:11] <daniels> seb128: (most of the generated HTML specs were broken in the old setup anyway)
[04:12] <elmo> fabbione: huh?
[04:12] <daniels> http://gabe.freedesktop.org/~daniels/menu-spec/
[04:15] <seb128> daniels, thanks
[04:15] <fabbione>  parsechangelog/debian: warning: unknown urgency value "crack"
[04:15] <fabbione> ;)
[04:15] <daniels> no worries
[04:16] <daniels> hmm, I suppose I have to ia64ify l-r-m now
[04:17] <daniels> elmo: could I please get concordia's chroot jiggy and higgy with the latest headers too?
[04:24] <thom> ok, S99sysklogd ; lets see what happens
[04:24] <elmo> daniels: done
[04:24] <daniels> elmo: thanks
[04:24] <daniels> MORE CRACK FOR THOM
[04:25] <daniels> he is clearly deficient in that regard
[04:26] <fabbione> i found an interesting way to break the kernel build system
[04:26] <fabbione> fabbione@gordian:/usr/src/wartydevel/kernel/linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.9+10rc3$ fakeroot make -f debian/rules clean
[04:26] <fabbione> debian/rules:79: *** first argument to `word' function must be greater than 0.  Stop.
[04:27] <daniels> fabbione: awesome
[04:28] <fabbione> i think it's the +rc3
[04:30] <sivang> anybody know if there is or isn't a pkg maintainace workshop?
[04:30] <sivang> it's 16:29, local time ;)
[04:34] <thom> dude, it may be crack, but it shaved 12 seconds off the boot
[04:35] <seb128> thom, what did you do ?
[04:35] <thom> seb128: started sysklogd at S99 in rc2
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: S99sysklogd :-)
[04:35] <fabbione> thom: i am seriously against it
[04:35] <seb128> oh, ok :)
[04:35] <pitti> thom: but wouldn't that somewhat nullify the point of syslog?
[04:35] <smurfix_> thom: Owch.
[04:35] <thom> well, yes
[04:36] <thom> i was just interested, i'm not planning on suggesting that we *do* it
[04:36] <pitti> thom: don't start gdm, it will further improve boot speed
[04:36] <thom> pitti: yeah, X sucks so hard
[04:36] <fabbione> thom: thanks :-)
[04:36] <pitti> thom: however, interesting that it gains _that_ much
[04:36] <smurfix_> thom: So your next job is to figure out _why_ it slows down boot that much. ;-)
[04:36] <thom> pitti: indeed
[04:37] <smurfix_> My first guess would be excessive syncing
[04:37] <thom> especially since most all the logs i have are async
[04:37] <smurfix_> thom: there is that
[04:37] <mdz> trulux: hi
[04:38] <thom> i do wonder how much parallel init would win us
[04:39] <trulux> mdz, when doko would get available? i need to talk with him about the toolchain patches
[04:39] <mdz> trulux: he doesn't look terribly busy
[04:40] <thom> mdz: you have eyes in the back of your head now?
[04:40] <lifeless> you looking on fdo?
[04:40] <daniels> lifeless: nope, fd.o is holding up fine
[04:40] <lifeless> :)
[04:41] <daniels> just trashing an X bulid tree so I can get another one
[04:41] <lifeless> bulid eh?
[04:43] <daniels> sure is
[04:43] <daniels> so I can timestamp all the logs
[04:43] <daniels> PROFILE X
[04:43] <bob2> mjg59: daniels when I close the lid and open it again (which afaict only turns the backlight off) the top..20th of the csreen or so goes multicoloured, with everything else shifted down.  switching to a vt and back again fixes it.
[04:44] <daniels> bob2: yeah, known issue
[04:44] <daniels> bob2: vberestore should fix that
[04:45] <bob2> ah
[04:52] <thom> and for my next trick, i shall replace depmod with a small shell script
[04:52] <seb128> sivang, no, in fact it works fine here, the Programming category popup as soon as I install something using it
[04:53] <daniels> (thom isn't joking.)
[04:54] <mjg59> bob2: Yeah.   I'll go look somewhere, then.
[05:03] <bob2> mjg59: worth trying on my apparently buggier x40?
[05:03] <mjg59> Go for it
[05:03] <thom> Mithrandir: in /usr/share/doc; iirc
[05:03] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[05:03] <Mithrandir> thx
[05:03] <bob2> mjg59: scott wants to know if he can unfuck his video now
[05:03] <bob2> since he missed the disclaimer
[05:04] <bob2> and is now whinging
[05:04] <mjg59> How fucked is it?
[05:04] <bob2> L lovely strip pattern
[05:04] <mjg59> Hrm.
[05:04] <bob2> I believe the goodies had trousers like it in the 70's
[05:04] <mjg59> Tell him to switch to X again.
[05:04] <bob2> no dice
[05:04] <mjg59> Away from X and back again?
[05:05] <Mithrandir> seems like he rebooted
[05:05] <seb128> ah ah
[05:05] <bob2> he hasn't he rebooted
[05:05] <bob2> seems his kernel went down
[05:05] <mjg59> Oh dear.
[05:05] <bob2> mjg59: keys did nothing at all
[05:05] <mjg59> That's slightly depressing.
[05:06] <bob2> daniels: thom oi
[05:06] <bob2> scott wants you to break his machine now
[05:07] <mjg59> Oh, hang on
[05:07] <thom> where is he?
[05:07] <mjg59> I see why that might have happened
[05:07] <bob2> quiet room
[05:07] <bob2> but it's rather unquiet
[05:07] <daniels> oh, cool
[05:07] <thom> bob2: please ask him to come to the bof room so we can talk?
[05:07] <daniels> the bof room is way cooler
[05:07] <mjg59> Someone tell Scott I fucked up, and can I give him another one to try?
[05:08] <bob2> he's slightly bitter but willing
[05:08] <daniels> mjg59: what'd you put in ax?
[05:08] <bob2> like english coffee
[05:08] <mjg59> daniels: 0x100, not 105
[05:08] <daniels> mjg59: oops
[05:08] <mjg59> Oh, argh. Now I need to work out whether it's supposed to be 105 or 150
[05:09] <mjg59> Right. 150.
[05:09] <mjg59> Can someone get him to try http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/scott_vm86_video_post
[05:10] <mjg59> (and tell him that he's lovely and I'm sorry I screwed his screen)
 thom's playing fucky-pants with it at the moment
[05:12] <mjg59> Haha
[05:14] <jdub> mjg59: back
[05:14] <mjg59> jdub: Can you stick a lspci somewhere and then test something for me?
[05:15] <mjg59> (note: may result in strange patterns on LCD)
[05:15] <jdub> heh
[05:15] <jdub> okay
[05:16] <mjg59> Something entertaining has suddenly come to mind. Oh well.
[05:17] <rburton> jdub: what's this i hear about gnome-app-install and instant apply
[05:17] <rburton> crack i say!
[05:17] <jdub> rburton: one sec
[05:17] <jdub> mjg59: mailed
[05:17] <jdub> rburton: what do you think about swapping the checkboxes with install/remove buttons?
[05:18] <jdub> rburton: this was suggested at the bof - i'm not convinced.
[05:18] <rburton> jdub: my argument against instant apply is what if the user installs OO.o?
[05:18] <rburton> they'll have to wait ageeees until they can also select another application, if they want to install two
[05:18] <jdub> it was not so much instant apply as "press the install button per package"
[05:18] <jdub> which results in an immediate install
[05:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: ok fuckhead, what's your clever second binary URL? :p
[05:19] <robtaylor> jdub: install/remove buttons sound saner
[05:19] <Mithrandir>                http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/scott_vm86_video_post
[05:19] <jdub> i think it's going to require some convincing of ross and i
[05:19] <jdub> or beer
[05:20] <daniels> same thing
[05:20] <mjg59> Arse
[05:20] <rburton> jdub: sounds like instant apply to me. mvo thinks its crack too
[05:20] <robtaylor> jdub: beer for you on thursday night then...
[05:20] <mjg59> jdub: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/jdub_vm86_video_post ?
[05:20] <Mithrandir> mjg59: new form of wallpaper
[05:20] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Mm?
[05:20] <thom> mjg59: that new one is still pretty wallpaper
[05:20] <Mithrandir> mjg59: for Keybuk, that is.
[05:20] <thom> (says scott)
[05:21] <Mithrandir> thom: not very pretty.. more psychedelic
[05:21] <rburton> waaa
[05:21] <Mithrandir> like, vertical bright colored stripes.
[05:21] <mjg59> Maybe it's supposed to be bus,device and not bus,device,function
[05:21] <rburton> daniels: why can't i click on the links on fd.o to get to the .desktop specs! :)
[05:21] <daniels> rburton: BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE SHORTLY
[05:21] <daniels> that's why :P
[05:21] <rburton> oh.
[05:22] <mjg59> Interestingly, machines that break with video_post are almost exclusively machines which don't have video at 01:00.0
[05:24] <fabbione> PUMP UP THE VOLUME BABY
[05:24] <fabbione> MAKE IA64 SING MAN!
[05:25] <mdz> elmo: can I get a copy of that bzip2 diveintopython deb as a test case?
[05:25] <daniels> rburton: http://gabe.freedesktop.org/~daniels/desktop-entry-spec/
[05:25] <daniels> mjg59: hmmm
[05:26] <daniels> mjg59: 0000:00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02)
[05:26] <daniels> (no, I'm not going to tank my X session right now)
[05:26] <jdub> mjg59: run this as root?
[05:26] <rburton> daniels: you rock
[05:26] <seb128> no, he sucks
[05:26] <jdub> rburton: do you like gnome-menus?
[05:26] <fabbione> daniels IS teh suck
[05:26] <jdub> rburton: reckon we could do g-a-i stuff via gnome-menus?
[05:27] <seb128> I'm stucked with a 1024x768 resolution
[05:27] <elmo> mdz: it's in my home dir on chinstrap
[05:27] <daniels> fabbione: and how!
[05:27] <daniels> fabbione: what've I done now?
[05:27] <fabbione> daniels: oh yeah.. more than a pornstar
[05:27] <daniels> whoo
[05:27] <fabbione> daniels: nothing ... yet...
[05:27] <fabbione> :P
[05:27] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[05:27] <daniels> haha
[05:28] <daniels> i'm PROFILING X, MAN
[05:28] <mdz> elmo: I've got the changes to apt more or less done, needs testing
[05:28] <daniels> (bad shot.)
[05:28] <fabbione> daniels: should i try again?
[05:28] <rburton> jdub: hell yeah
[05:28] <daniels> only if you stay where you are now
[05:28] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah
[05:28] <rburton> jdub: actually i've got bits of 2.9 installed on my sid box, i'll give it a go later
[05:28] <daniels> nice work
[05:28] <fabbione> ahaha
[05:29] <rburton> mallum says the default desktop wallpaper looks shit on 3072x768
[05:29] <daniels> rburton: ... xinerama?
[05:29] <mjg59> daniels: That's a very good point
[05:29] <sivang> ogra : here?
[05:29] <mjg59> I wonder why it works here.
[05:29] <elmo> mdz: neato
[05:29] <daniels> or just multi-screen
[05:29] <bob2> if mellum gives me his screens, I will volunteer to fix it
[05:30] <rburton> daniels: xinerama
[05:30] <daniels> his tfts are beautiful
[05:30] <daniels> bob2: (mallum)
[05:30] <jdub> rburton: rocking, that'll be very sweet
[05:30] <rburton> daniels: dude, they are sucky tfts
[05:30] <jdub> mjg59: is this going to crash, break, halt...?
[05:30] <daniels> rburton: are they?
[05:30] <daniels> they looked shiny, at least, and there were three of them
[05:30] <daniels> that negates any suckage
[05:31] <rburton> daniels: i thought they were cheap ones, but yeah, three screens rocks
[05:31] <daniels> ahr
[05:31] <daniels> yeah
[05:31] <rburton> i think ubuntu needs a super-widescreen version of all wallpaper
[05:31] <fabbione> daniels: if you want to make X faster, just stick some gentoo options at build time
[05:31] <fabbione> -o1337
[05:31] <fabbione> or stuff like that
[05:31] <mjg59> jdub: Might give weird screen effects
[05:31] <rburton> maybe the blonde laying across them all
[05:31] <daniels> fabbione: i'm settling for timestamping on the logs atm
[05:32] <fabbione> daniels: what part of the code do you expect to optimize?
[05:32] <fabbione> daniels: if you are luck you can manage to kill some startup sanity checks
[05:33] <jdub> mjg59: hmm
[05:33] <fabbione> once you know the previous startup was safe and no changes to the config have been done
[05:33] <jdub> mjg59: smoother than normal suspend/resume
[05:33] <jamesh> the wallpaper also looks shit at 2560*1024
[05:33] <fabbione> same at home
[05:33] <jdub> mjg59: now i don't have a mouse cursor
[05:33] <Mithrandir> mice are for weenies
[05:33] <mjg59> jdub: What you do it from a text console?
[05:33] <jdub> what if or did i?
[05:34] <jamesh> the fix is probably to get Nautilus or Eel to repeat the wallpaper for xinerama-style multiscreen
[05:34] <mjg59> jdub: Oops. Did you?
[05:34] <jamesh> multi-head, even
[05:34] <jdub> mjg59: no, i didn't
[05:34] <mjg59> jdub: Ah. Could you try?
[05:34] <daniels> fabbione: well, if anything, we'll just find where the huge bottlenecks are
[05:34] <daniels> we know where that is for i855: VBE
[05:34] <daniels> but who knows, we might turn up stuff like the ICE sleep
[05:35] <Treenaks> jdub: did you get my mail yesterday about the -nl mailinglist?
[05:35] <Treenaks> (not sure I sent it to the right address)
[05:35] <fabbione> daniels: yeah
[05:36] <mjg59> Has jdub's laptop blown up?
[05:36] <jdub> Treenaks: hrm, i don't think so
[05:36] <jdub> mjg59: no
[05:36] <jdub> mjg59: running around a bit :)
[05:36] <mjg59> Heh
[05:36] <jdub> it was just kinda weird
[05:37] <Treenaks> jdub: well, could you create it? :)
[05:37] <jdub> Treenaks: can you mail a summary and description of the list?
[05:37] <jdub> mjg59: in both cases it flashed weirdly
[05:37] <Treenaks> jdub: uh OK, what's the right address?
[05:37] <jdub> mjg59: from X it came back to X
[05:37] <jdub> Treenaks<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:38] <mjg59> jdub: But none of the screen melting that you got before?
[05:38] <Treenaks> jdub: ok, thanks
[05:38] <jdub> mjg59: no
[05:38] <jdub> mjg59: good point :)
[05:38] <jdub> mjg59: hrm, i'll have to try console again
[05:38] <jdub> mjg59: it didn't return to the console properly
[05:39] <jdub> mjg59: just about to start a bof though
[05:39] <mjg59> jdub: You'd need to at least hit enter again after running it
[05:44] <Kamion> fabbione: rock
[05:49] <Kamion> FABBIONE
[05:49] <Kamion> where have all my powerpc nic-modules gone?
[05:51] <thom> *giggle*
[05:52] <Kamion> specifically sungem, but there are several other missing ones
[05:52] <Treenaks> Kamion: restricted-modules?
[05:53] <Kamion> hell no!
[05:54] <Kamion> I don't see why it isn't getting built, the list files are right
[05:54] <fabbione> Kamion: ehhh???
[05:54] <fabbione> Kamion: i didn't touch anything on ppc
[05:55] <Kamion> fabbione: it's between <IP_ADDRESS>-19 and 2.6.9-1
[05:55] <fabbione> Kamion: the lists are the same
[05:55] <fabbione> Kamion: we need to check the ppc logs
[05:56] <fabbione> as soon as they will be available
[05:56] <Kamion> they're available, 2.6.9-1 and 2.6.9-2 are both broken this way
[05:57] <fabbione> Kamion: hold on
[05:58] <Kamion> mmm, I tend to agree
[05:58] <Kamion> which is SCARY
[05:58] <fabbione> Kamion: i am checking on the port box
[05:58] <fabbione> Kamion: can you tell me an exact package name that is missing
[05:58] <fabbione> ?
[05:58] <Kamion> missing module drivers/net/mv64340_eth.o
[05:59] <Kamion> that's in the build log; it might well be giving up there
[05:59] <Kamion> it's not packages that are missing, just some modules from nic-modules
[05:59] <fabbione> ah ok
[05:59] <fabbione> HMM
[05:59] <Kamion> did that driver get renamed?
[05:59] <fabbione> i understood that there were missing udebs from the lists
[05:59] <fabbione> Kamion
[05:59] <fabbione> not that i am aware of
[05:59] <mjg59> That driver got renamed, I think
[06:00] <Kamion> it's not in <IP_ADDRESS> either though
[06:00] <mjg59> It's 643xx
[06:00] <mjg59> (now)
[06:00] <Kamion> kinda makes me wonder how it ever worked
[06:01] <fabbione> Kamion: what are modules are missing?
[06:03] <Kamion> fabbione: hang on a sec
[06:04] <fabbione> Kamion: sure... take all the time you need
[06:04] <fabbione> i am trying to figure out an easy path to package the kernel without too much crack
[06:04] <Kamion> they seem to have disappeared in either <IP_ADDRESS>-18 and <IP_ADDRESS>-19
[06:04] <Kamion> in fact mv64340_eth disappeared from the .deb at that time, for no reason that's explained in the changelog
[06:05] <fabbione> Kamion: i am really sure i didn't change anything in terms of compilation
[06:05] <fabbione> other than adding the udeb generation from linux-source
[06:05] <fabbione> and adding sparc
[06:05] <fabbione> but no config updates or anything took place in <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:06] <fabbione> hem
[06:06] <fabbione> .1
[06:08] <Kamion> -18_powerpc.deb seems to be missing from the morgue though
[06:08] <fabbione> -18 never had the time to compile
[06:08] <fabbione> -19 arrived in less than 20 minutes after
[06:08] <fabbione> so -17 -> -19 diff is ok
[06:08] <Kamion> ah, ok
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: have you grepped for data.tar.gz in katie?
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: the python API is such that if you want data.tar.gz, you ask for it by name
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: I've fixed the bit where it will abort if it isn't present, and fixed apt-ftparchive contents
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: anything else would be a problem external to apt
[06:12] <elmo> mdz: yeah, I know it does dude, but there was a bit of python-apt that needed fixed :P
[06:13] <mdz> elmo: which bit?
[06:14] <mdz> the only problem I found which I thought would affect katie was the check which bombed out if data.tar.gz was missing, in libapt-inst
[06:14] <mdz> python-apt doesn't reference data.tar.gz
[06:14] <elmo> Rejected: diveintopython_5.4-1ubuntu1_all.deb: deb contents timestamp check failed [exceptions.SystemError: This is not a valid
[06:14] <elmo> DEB archive, missing 'data.tar.gz' member]
[06:15] <elmo> that bit in []  doesn't come from katie ...
[06:15] <mdz> yep, that's the bit I fixed
[06:15] <elmo> well okay, after the : ;P
[06:15] <elmo> ok
[06:15] <mdz> so if that's the only error you encountered, we're in good shape
[06:15] <mdz> katie doesn't actually do anything with data.tar.(gz|bz2), right?
[06:15] <elmo> "do" how?  it does checks on it
[06:16] <elmo> actually, it's just the timestamps check that matters immediately
[06:16] <elmo> I'll have to fix the NEW checking stuff too, but that's less critical
[06:20] <mdz> ah, ok
[06:24] <Kamion> fabbione: right, looks like it's just mv64340_eth; if you restore the CONFIG_MV64340_ETH* config entries from <IP_ADDRESS>-19, s/MV64340/MV643XX/g on that, and s/mv64340/mv643xx/g on debian/d-i/powerpc/modules/powerpc/nic-modules, that should do it
[06:25] <Kamion> fabbione: however, the fact that the build didn't fail is a pretty serious kernel-wedge bug ...
[06:31] <daniels> (gdb)
[06:31] <daniels> 568             LogVWrite(-1, f, args);
[06:31] <daniels> (gdb) print f
[06:31] <daniels> $3 = 0x81cf1c4 "\nFatal server error:\n"
[06:31] <daniels> (gdb) print args
[06:31] <daniels> $4 = 0xbfffd6e4 ""
[06:31] <daniels> (gdb) step
[06:31] <daniels> Breakpoint 1, LogVWrite (verb=136387520, f=0x0, args=0x0) at log.c:256
[06:31] <daniels> wtf?
[06:35] <fabbione> Kamion: kernel-wedge didn't fail because of the || true
[06:35] <fabbione> Kamion: since it was barfing on other unrelated problems
[06:35] <mjg59> HRNGH.
[06:35] <Kamion> uh. you run kernel-wedge with || true?
[06:36] <fabbione> Kamion: isn't the driver built on 2.6.9 at all? afaik it does, but i can double check that
[06:36] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, we already discuss it a few days back.
[06:36] <Kamion> it's not built at all; you need to change the config
[06:36] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. that's easy to do.
[06:36] <Kamion> hm, ok, don't remind me, I don't want to know :)
[06:37] <fabbione> Kamion: i will remind you instead :-)
[06:37] <fabbione> kernel-wedge is not designed to face that mess
[06:37] <Kamion> looking at the diff the settings actually got deleted from the powerpc configs in 2.6.9-1
[06:37] <fabbione> and it barfs on the debs
[06:37] <fabbione> Kamion: if a CONFIG_* doesn't exist anymore, it gets automatically deleted, but the weird thing is why i wasn'
[06:38] <fabbione> wasn't prompted for the new one
[06:38] <Kamion> mkay
[06:38] <mjg59> daniels: Ok, so it turns out that video_post has generally been initialising the wrong video card
[06:38] <mjg59> Which explains a lot of the misery
[06:39] <Mithrandir> heh
[06:40] <mjg59> Keybuk: I've still no idea why it doesn't work on yours, but if you want to try my latest version of it, feel free
[06:41] <Keybuk> the screen goes black (dpms-style)
[06:41] <Keybuk> then when you switch to the X display, X go bye-bye and shows a picture of my gran's wallpaper
[06:42] <Keybuk> (tasteless green and white vertical stripes)
[06:42] <mjg59> Keybuk: Oh, right!
[06:42] <mjg59> That happens when you switch back to X?
[06:42] <Keybuk> yes
[06:42] <mjg59> Can you add Option VBERestore true to your device section?
[06:42] <Keybuk> it doesn't restore at all otherwise
[06:43] <mjg59> That's X getting horribly confused, then
[06:43] <Keybuk> I can try, but can't test for a while
[06:43] <mjg59> Rather than my code being broken
[06:43] <mjg59> Rock
[06:43] <daniels> to be fair, your video card usually isn't posted into an unknown state from under you
[06:43] <Keybuk> which device section?
[06:43] <mjg59> Keybuk: The ati one
[06:43] <Keybuk> both?
[06:43] <Keybuk> there's two
[06:43] <mjg59> Keybuk: There are?
[06:43] <Keybuk> yeh, laptop has two screens
[06:44] <mjg59> Oh, right
[06:44] <mjg59> The primary one, then
[06:44] <Keybuk> right
[06:44] <Keybuk> can't test for a bit though, I'm coding and don't want X dieing *again*
[06:44] <mjg59> daniels: Hang on a sec. How about we do vbe save/restore from userspace on ACPI rather than have the X server do it all the time?
[06:44] <mjg59> Would that improve your performance issues?
[06:45] <daniels> mjg59: it would improve i855's performance massively, but I think I can get a reasonable performance boost with some other shit I'm working on
[06:46] <mjg59> daniels: Ok, I'll look into that now
[06:46] <mjg59> (It'll be x86 only, but...)
[06:46] <daniels> unfortunately, if you declare a pointer in local scope in LogVWrite, its arguments go away
[06:46] <daniels> which sucks, because it's shit right now
[06:47] <Treenaks> daniels: like, removing random sleep()s?
[06:47] <daniels> Treenaks: partially, yah :)
[06:52] <fabbione> isn't trukulo around?
[06:52] <fabbione> i tought he was coming here today
[06:57] <Kamion> do we want to start defaulting to new kernels soon?
[06:57] <Kamion> I ask because I need to change rootskel to use 2.6.9 anyway on ia64
[06:58] <fabbione> Kamion: i am doing a testbuild right now
[06:59] <fabbione> Kamion: go ahead and switch to 2.6.9
[06:59] <fabbione> i don't think we have any more regressions other than the ppc bits
[06:59] <fabbione> that i can easily upload this evening
[06:59] <fabbione> since it's a simple thing
[07:01] <Kamion> we should switch linux-meta as well to get the right packages on the CD
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: feel like doing that?
[07:02] <fabbione> mdz: if so.. can you also add sparc please?
[07:02] <Kamion> and at some point I should actually release a new Array CD. :)
[07:05] <fabbione> ehehe
[07:09] <Treenaks> oooh.... coolness.... http://www.syswear.com/
[07:12] <fabbione> Kamion: i figured why it didn't build at all
[07:13] <fabbione> Kamion: and i wasn't prompted for the new symbol
[07:13] <fabbione> this is a pain to fix
[07:19] <sladen> thom: according to mjg59 Scitech have already split the x86 emulator out from X and it's on their website
[07:20] <mjg59> (scitech wrote the x86 emulator in X)
[07:26] <fabbione> Kamion: i am going to readd that stuff, but you will have to test it
[07:27] <fabbione> Kamion: not even google knows where the patch Herbert applied comes from
[07:28] <Kamion> fabbione: sure; I can't test that driver though, the one I was missing on my hardware was sungem
[07:28] <mjg59> Is this the Marvel driver?
[07:28] <Kamion> fabbione: which got lost 'cos it was after mv64340_eth in the modules file
[07:28] <mjg59> If so, it probably came from Sven
[07:28] <Kamion> fabbione: I checked, nothing else was missing
[07:28] <Kamion> oh, I wonder if my pegasos has it?
[07:28] <mjg59> It's the gigabit ethernet on the Pegasos 2
[07:28] <Kamion> $ ssh crydee
[07:28] <Kamion> ssh: connect to address <IP_ADDRESS> port 22: No route to host
[07:29] <mjg59> Haha
[07:29] <Kamion> d'oh, maybe it fell over
[07:29] <Kamion> well, I'll give it a go when I get home, can only plug 100mbit into it though
[07:30] <fabbione> Kamion
[07:30] <fabbione> i don't think sven can even code 2 lines of what is in that patch
[07:32] <mjg59> fabbione: Sven won't have written it, but it'll have come through bplan
[07:32] <mjg59> (or genesi, or whicever bit of the company is pretending to have money this week)
[07:32] <fabbione> mjg59: i will rather rediff it than ask him for a new patch
[07:33] <mjg59> Haha
[07:33] <mjg59> But isn't it in the stock kernel now?
[07:33] <mjg59> As mv643xx rather than mv64340
[07:33] <fabbione> no the pegasos part
[07:34] <mjg59> There's only something like 1000 Pegasoses in the wild, and most of those are with developers, so I wouldn't worry about it too much
[07:37] <fabbione> mjg59: well.. Kamion has been asking for it :-)
[07:38] <fabbione> in anycase the thingy is partially merged
[07:38] <fabbione> the rejects are trivial to merge
[07:38] <fabbione> there were 2/3 lines that were *scary*
[07:38] <Kamion> fabbione: no I haven't?
[07:38] <fabbione> but nothing impossible to do
[07:38] <mdz> fabbione: you have a fix for the usb-storage bug?
[07:38] <fabbione> Kamion: for the mv643xx ?
[07:38] <Kamion> I want mv64340_eth to build so that it and everything after it alphabetically end up in the nic-modules udeb
[07:38] <Kamion> sorry, mv643xx_eth
[07:38] <fabbione> Kamion: we are talking about the same driver
[07:38] <Kamion> I don't especially care whether or not it works :)
[07:38] <Kamion> yes, I know
[07:38] <Kamion> 18:37 < fabbione> mjg59: well.. Kamion has been asking for it :-)
[07:39] <fabbione> Kamion: it doesn't build on ppc if the code is not merged :
[07:39] <fabbione> :-)
[07:39] <Kamion> ah, I see
[07:39] <fabbione> + #ifdef __PPC__
[07:39] <fabbione> +       dev->irq = 9;
[07:39] <fabbione> + #else
[07:39] <fabbione>         dev->irq = ETH_PORT0_IRQ_NUM + port_num;
[07:39] <fabbione> + #endif
[07:39] <fabbione>
[07:39] <fabbione> stuff like this :-)
[07:39] <fabbione> mdz: i did change the config on your request. the ohter bug is in the scsi layer
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: if you can check bugzilla on kernel.org for a patch would help kthxbye :-)
[07:40] <mdz> fabbione: we cannot use 2.6.9 as default until that bug is fixed. it is a serious regression from <IP_ADDRESS>
[07:41] <mdz> it is not clear whether the bug is in scsi or usb
[07:41] <mdz> I am on the CC list for the kernel.org bug; there has been no activity that I saw
[07:41] <Kamion> at the moment we are using 2.6.9 in the installer and <IP_ADDRESS> in the installed system, which is crack
[07:41] <Kamion> it will result in hotplug desync
[07:41] <mdz> but I have no idea whether the people who work on those subsystems actually look at bugzilla at all
[07:42] <Kamion> if we are going to use 2.6.9 in hoary I'd rather that we defaulted to it now
[07:42] <mdz> it makes me unable to do necessary development tasks
[07:42] <fabbione> mdz: we did disable the usb_blk_ub thingy already
[07:43] <Kamion> I thought Fabio had turned off the worst of it
[07:43] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I know
[07:43] <fabbione> mdz: and there are 2 bugs on bugzilla.k.o about the same stuff
[07:43] <mdz> that is one out of two show-stopper bugs
[07:43] <fabbione> one of the says that it is in the scsi layer
[07:43] <fabbione> and that has been fixed
[07:43] <fabbione> in some 2.6.10-crack version
[07:43] <mdz> the comment that says it is in the scsi layer is from someone who has no idea what they are talking about
[07:43] <mdz> oh, good
[07:43] <mdz> so we can pull the patch and be done with it
[07:44] <fabbione> mdz: if you know what to pull....
[07:44] <fabbione> mdz: it's not a case that today i started a little crack branch
[07:44] <mdz> er
[07:44] <mdz> I am looking at the kernel.org bugs and I see no indication that it is fixed anywhere
[07:44] <mdz> where did you see that?
[07:44] <fabbione> it was in the bug report
[07:45] <fabbione> it is written something like "this has been fixed a while ago"
[07:45] <fabbione> or similar
[07:45] <mdz> you must be looking at a different bug than I am
[07:45] <mdz> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3787
[07:45] <fabbione> mdz: possibly
[07:45] <mdz> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3829
[07:45] <fabbione> i don't have it handy now
[07:45] <mdz> those are the two that I am aware of
[07:45] <fabbione> i looked for a few days back
[07:46] <fabbione> mdz: you will be my testing bitch :-)
[07:46] <fabbione> because i already have this:
[07:46] <fabbione> linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.10               linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-0rc3.dsc
[07:46] <fabbione> linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-0rc3.diff.gz  linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10.orig.tar.gz
[07:48] <herzi> 'd
[07:49] <fabbione> + this is kinda.. hmmm hoary?
[07:49] <fabbione> so i mean.. it can break
[08:18] <trulux> anybody here with usb 2.0? :P
[08:18] <trulux> i can't get working an external ide-to-usb disk
[08:18] <trulux> the typical usb-storage device
[08:28] <mjg59> daniels: The good news is, I have code that can save and restore state from userspace
[08:28] <mjg59> daniels: The bad news is, it dies if it's run under X
[08:28] <mjg59> This isn't /necessarily/ a problem
[08:28] <mjg59> But I'll look at that later on
[09:54] <bronson_> Anyone know if there are plans to get the CVS xorg into Hoary?
[10:14] <ironwolf> bronson: daniels might know.
[10:15] <moquist> hi sid77
[10:41] <daniels> mjg59: the posting stuff dies?
[10:41] <daniels> bronson_: 6.8.2, yes, and I've already taken most of it back
[10:41] <daniels> bronson_: but really, nothing interesting is otherwise happening in cvs, other than a pending reorganisation
[10:41] <mjg59> daniels: No, VBE save/restore
[10:42] <mjg59> POST+vbe state restore+X might be enough
[10:42] <daniels> which won't be interesting from a user point of view
[10:42] <mjg59> Mm?
[10:42] <mjg59> If the user ever runs this stuff, they deserve what they get :)
[10:42] <mjg59> Actually, it should check that it's running on a console and exit otherwise
[10:43] <mjg59> So we switch away from X, save state, suspend, POST, restore state, switch back to X
[10:43] <mjg59> Which ought to let you drop VBERestore from X
[10:52] <mjg59> daniels: So vberestore save sends vbestate to stdout. vberestore restore accepts it from stdout.
[10:54] <daniels> mjg59: heh, yeah :)
[10:54] <daniels> mjg59: right, sounds sane
[10:54] <daniels> cool
[10:55] <daniels> mjg59: you could hac^H^Hook into xf86EnterVT() and xf86LeaveVT() if you were feeling particularly sick
[10:56] <bronson_> daniels: taken most of it back?  what do you mean?
[10:57] <mjg59> daniels: That just sounds... unnecessary
[10:57] <bronson_> 6.8.2 turns off the backlight on my laptop.  I'm hoping I can wait a week and download new packages, rather than trying to compile x myself...
[10:58] <mjg59> daniels: That functionality is centralised anyway, so I'm not sure why some drivers don't use it
[10:58] <bronson_> I want to try it so I can close the bug filed on xorg bugzilla.
[11:10] <bob2> thom: daniels discovered he was too soft to come back
[11:10] <Treenaks> wow
[11:11] <Treenaks> 11mbit in my room ;)
[11:12] <Kamion> fabbione: let me know when you've done the linux-meta update for ia64 (lamont said you were doing it?), so I can update rootskel and base-installer
[11:12] <thom> lamer
[11:13] <Kamion> fabbione: what should I do in the installer if I spot sparc32? erroring out requires a string change ...
[11:13] <Kamion> er, sparc32 images
[11:13] <Treenaks> jdub is on slashdot again.. his name at least
[11:15] <mjg59> daniels: Rocking
[11:15] <mjg59> I can do vbesave and vberestore
[11:16] <bob2> mjg59: daniels is suggesting that unloading ipw2100 before sleep might make it more stable
[11:16] <mjg59> I do that, don't I?
[11:16] <mjg59> Hrm. That's interesting. X is taking about 30% of CPU.
[11:17] <bob2> not in /etc/acpi on my system
[11:17] <bob2> maybe daniels' crack doesn't
[11:18] <mjg59> Ah
[11:18] <mjg59> Yeah, you want my crack
[11:19] <mxpxpod> I compiled my own kernel and did make-kpkg kernel-headers and the resulting package has nothing in it
[11:19] <mxpxpod> is there a reason for this?
[11:21] <bob2> mjg59: hm, I have your crack, still no mention of ipw2 in /etc/acpi
[11:21] <mjg59> bob2: Yeah, it automatically works out the list of network modules
[11:21] <bob2> mjg59: oh, shiney
[11:22] <bob2> no reboot needed, right?
[11:22] <Keybuk> mjg: so, video-post ...
[11:22] <mjg59> Nope
[11:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yo
[11:22] <Keybuk> it makes my screen switch off
[11:22] <mjg59> Yeah
[11:22] <Keybuk> and even with VBERestore, makes X.org very very unhappy
[11:22] <mjg59> It seems to do that sometimes
[11:22] <mjg59> Hm
[11:25] <bob2> hm, woke up immediately
[11:25] <thom> keybuk is singing the "mjg59 sucks" song
[11:25] <thom> it's very repettitive
[11:26] <Mithrandir> thom: where are you?
[11:26] <bob2> lamont_r: eh?
[11:26] <Kamion> fabbione: never mind, I'll just upload it, it's not like the installer works on ia64 yet anyway ;)
[11:26] <lamont_r> bob2: or was that not a troll?
[11:26] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hang on, shiny new crack coming right up
[11:26] <Kamion> 22:22 -!- lamont_r<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit ["Leaving"]
[11:26] <Kamion> 22:23 -!- lamont_r<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:26] <Kamion> 22:25 < bob2> hm, woke up immediately
[11:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you should be careful pimping for hardware like that.
[11:27] <Treenaks> lamont_r: could you boost the power on those APs of yours? :)
[11:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Mark keeps trying to fill my bedroom with computers even more than it already is
[11:27] <Treenaks> lamont_r: I keep getting disconnects ;)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: get yourself a rack and tell him they need to be rackmountable and silent?
[11:28] <mjg59> Keybuk: Grab www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/vbestate and do FOO=`vbestate save`; vm86_video_post; echo $FOO | vbestate restore
[11:28] <Treenaks> tie him to the rack!
[11:28] <Treenaks> oh wait.. other rack
[11:28] <lamont_r> Treenaks: what I need to do is get back in the main room
[11:28] <lamont_r> and move things
[11:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: unfortunately none of my machines so far are such, so I still lose a big load of space :(
[11:28] <mjg59> I don't think he had time to test that...
[11:28] <Treenaks> you can go there.. it's dark.. but it's open
[11:29] <thom> Mithrandir: hacking room
[11:29] <Keybuk> mjg59: can you repost?
[11:29] <Keybuk> I got attacked by your hibernate script
[11:29] <mjg59> Keybuk: Grab www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/vbestate and do FOO=`vbestate save`; vm86_video_post; echo $FOO | vbestate restore
[11:29] <mjg59> Keybuk: Except, don't just yet. Give me a minute.
[11:29] <Keybuk> the only affect of which is to unmount /proc and cause gnome to have a seisure
[11:29] <Mithrandir> is the usb brokenness in 2.6.9 fixed in hoary?
[11:29] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: ish
[11:29] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Yeah
[11:30] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'll test my if my suspend/resume cycle stuff is fixed tomorrow
[11:30] <mjg59> Treenaks: rock
[11:30] <Keybuk> mjg59: out of X?
[11:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: Console. Really console. But give me a minute or two more.
[11:31] <Treenaks> hm.. I have one dead green pixel (lighting up at like 50% all the time)
[11:32] <Treenaks> but it's in the middle of the face of the calendar girl
[11:32] <Keybuk> maybe she just has a zit
[11:32] <Keybuk> as well as being cross-eyed?
[11:32] <thom> and having her nipples cut
[11:32] <Treenaks> Keybuk: a green one?
[11:33] <Treenaks> Keybuk: that'd just be scary
[11:34] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: why not just do an alarm($((3600*8)))
[11:34] <Kamion> bah, no mdz
[11:34] <|trey|> Hey, sorry to bother here... would it be user error that I am getting default GNOME menu's in hoary? Just finished fresh install and upgrade... "saved session" once, but thats never resulted in this before  :(
[11:35] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: well, that too.
[11:35] <Treenaks> |trey|: it's known and will be fixed soon
[11:35] <|trey|> Treenaks, alright, thanks  :)
[11:35] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: mixing sleep() and alarm() is Bad
[11:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: nice mix of C and shell syntax there
[11:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: he's probably a csh freak
[11:38] <Keybuk> heh
[11:38] <Treenaks> *shudder*
[11:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: zsh, zsh
[11:38] <Kamion> bless you
[11:39] <Mithrandir> thom: where have you got your BT crack from?
[11:39] <thom> Mithrandir: BT?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> bluetooth
[11:40] <Mithrandir> you had something in your menus, iirc
[11:40] <thom> ahr, jdub's bluetooth repo
[11:40] <Treenaks> bittorrent over bluetooth!
[11:40] <Mithrandir> apt line?
[11:40] <thom> #deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/warty/ ./
[11:41] <Mithrandir> thx
[11:41] <Treenaks> what's a good python+dbus example?
[11:45] <thom> Treenaks: hal has some python apps
[11:46] <Treenaks> thom: I can fnd only one
[11:51] <Treenaks> yikes.. this is easier than I thought
[11:55] <bob2> lamont_r: was talking about my laptop, foo'!
[11:57] <bob2> mjg59: after unloading ehci_hcd, no more problem
[11:57] <mjg59> Grr. I really don't understand this.
[11:58] <mjg59> bob2: Really? Weird.
[11:58] <mjg59> Ok, possibly we should unload those, then.
[11:58] <mjg59> The USB suspend/resume still seems a touch dodgy
[11:59] <mjg59> But it works here. Oh well.
[11:59] <bob2> yeah, it worked sometimes before
[11:59] <bob2> but just now it was saying this:
[11:59] <bob2> Could not suspend device 0000:00:1d.7: error -5
[11:59] <bob2> which according to lspci is the ehci controller thing
[11:59] <mjg59> Hm
[11:59] <mjg59> 2.6.9 or 2.6.8?
[12:00] <bob2> <IP_ADDRESS>-3-686


[16:18] <MarkDude> Nothing like waking up to see your name in ITworld article
[16:20] <pleia2> MarkDude: good news, I hope :)
[16:20] <MarkDude> Wow Zonker retweeted the message about my account
[16:21] <MarkDude> Well
[16:21] <MarkDude> Ubuntu may not mind, I just got an email from Fedora leadership
[16:21] <MarkDude> Asking me to clarify that I was not represneting them
[16:22] <MarkDude> Brian Proffitt @TheTechScribe
[16:22] <MarkDude> OSCON Nonprofit Pavilion deals with limited space http://ow.ly/bgYHw <- Fedora, Ubuntu on waiting list
[16:22] <MarkDude> woke up to that
[16:27] <pleia2> ah
[16:28] <pleia2> admittedly, OSCON is quite the preaching-to-choir event anyway :) in the coming months I'm going to keep an eye out for other events I should be aiming at
[16:28] <pleia2> space in the non-profit section could be better used to promote projects and non-profit orgs that people haven't heard about and wish to learn about
[16:29] <MarkDude> Sure maybe
[16:29] <MarkDude> Well 1st- Fedora is not a non-profit
[16:29] <MarkDude> But Fedora writes much of Linux
[16:30] <MarkDude> Ubuntu promotes Linux like no other
[16:34] <scientes> hahaha
[16:35] <scientes> MarkDude, ooo link to article?
[16:35] <scientes> oh i see it
[16:38] <scientes> I don't like how ubuntu and fedora are differing so much in core packages now
[16:40] <MarkDude> I understand
[16:40] <MarkDude> I was thinking I personally would not mind if the 2 Distros shared a community Linux table
[16:41] <scientes> well the reasons for their departing are very real and serious ones
[16:41] <MarkDude> Agreed
[16:42] <scientes> both made sound technical choices for their actions
[16:42] <MarkDude> But focusing on the differences, can be distracting
[16:42] <MarkDude> As opposed to the common issies
[16:43] <scientes> like: will ubuntu also use fedora's UEFI shim? and sign their kernel's and turn off all the functionality that RH is going to be turning off in signed kernels?
[16:43] <scientes> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html
[16:44] <scientes> btw: signed kernels will NOT run virtualbox, with NOT run nvida drivers or other 3rd-party crap drivers, and more
[16:45] <scientes> and ubuntu has been putting reliance on nvidia + catalyst proprietary, unlike RH/fedora
[16:52] <philipballew_> this sounds disappointing...
[16:56] <MarkDude> Well much of it is sad
[16:56] <MarkDude> Part of the reason I used UDS to look for issues in common
[16:57] <MarkDude> And am trying to get Juju - in Fedora repos
[16:57] <MarkDude> And would like ideas for the other way around
[16:57] <MarkDude> Dont forget tho- RH is NOT Fedora
[16:57] <MarkDude> Just as Canonical is NOT the Ubuntu Community
[16:57] <MarkDude> :D
[16:58] <MarkDude> Minus a few legal issues, Fedora is in charge of its own destiny
[17:05] <scientes> MarkDude, ok sorry
[17:05] <MarkDude> No problem
[17:06] <scientes> philipballew, yes, the UFI stuff is quite disappointing
[17:06] <scientes> *UEFI
[17:06] <scientes> its a giant mess
[17:06]  * MarkDude was just told to clarify a few details- and that my opinions are not that of Fedora :)
[17:06] <scientes> its non-driver parts has more code than the non-driver part of the linux kernl
[17:06] <MarkDude> Or any other FOSS projects I am associated with
[17:06] <MarkDude> Well the driver thing
[17:06] <MarkDude> It comes down to fundamental differences between the two
[17:07] <scientes> well UEFI is a mess for everyone
[17:07] <MarkDude> Ubuntu is more functional
[17:07] <MarkDude> easier to use- due in great part to drivers
[17:07] <scientes> errrrrr
[17:07] <MarkDude> Fedora takes a stance like RMS - to keep its focus on FREE things
[17:07] <scientes> that is certainly your own opinion, and one that fedora doesn't share AFAIK
[17:08] <scientes> its even in their tagline: FREEDOM
[17:08] <MarkDude> Actually most - in Fedora know Ubuntu is easier to use
[17:08] <scientes> and i have to agree with them there, and even Linus Torvalds, who RMS isn't that big of a fan of, is on the same grounds here
[17:08] <MarkDude> Thats actually parrt of the core- the Foundations
[17:08] <scientes> even if his reasons against propritary drivers are largely on practical grounds, rather than philosophical
[17:08] <MarkDude> Friends , Features, Freedoms, First
[17:09] <MarkDude> Well, would you tell a vegetarian to eat meet?
[17:09] <MarkDude> meat
[17:09] <scientes> and red-hat has been doing the big funding of nouveau and radeon
[17:09] <scientes> and i give them alot of credit there
[17:09] <MarkDude> Agreed
[17:09] <MarkDude> nouveau used to suck :D
[17:09] <scientes> now we just need VA-API support
[17:10] <scientes> well nouveau still sucks on my card
[17:10] <scientes> it was just rewritten
[17:10] <scientes> so I have my hopes up :D
[17:21] <MarkDude> Yep
[17:21] <MarkDude> I think much of this can be compared to dietary restrictions
[17:21] <MarkDude> Fedora is like a vegan
[17:21] <MarkDude> Ubuntu is an omnivore
[17:22] <MarkDude> One that puts weight on being green
[17:22] <MarkDude> Its not like Ubuntu does not have a value system, they certainly have a valid one
[17:22] <MarkDude> They stay true to what they believe
[17:23] <MarkDude> If you sorta keep this in mind, it keeps the *trying to convert thing* to a minimum
[17:23] <MarkDude> Fedora need not eat meat, and Ubuntu is not evil for doing so :D
[17:46] <scientes> I don't neccicarily want to impose my beliefs on others
[17:46] <scientes> generally not a wise course of action ;)
[17:46] <MarkDude> Agreed :D
[17:47] <MarkDude> The common area to follow my comparison, is that both dont want un-needed suffering
[17:47] <MarkDude> Even tho Ubuntu eats meat, there is a caring there
[17:48] <MarkDude> This area has a fair amount to agree on.
[17:48] <scientes> and happily broadcom came around to the world of the free
[17:48] <scientes> *thnkfully
[17:48] <MarkDude> And others may warm to this idea
[17:49] <MarkDude> By Ubuntu pushing the limits of drivers, and Fedora staying clear, its a carrot and stick
[17:49] <MarkDude> Both are valid
[17:49] <MarkDude> and awesome I might add :D
[17:56] <MarkDude> Nothing like working on a draft of my response to an article in which I am mentioned.
[17:58]  * MarkDude never had goal of being known as *the dude in the Penguin Suit*, an agitator, or a supporter of a cartoon hotodg. Sometimes destiny picks us tho, we do not pick it :D
[17:58]  * MarkDude is an asshat, just to clarify
[18:08] <scientes> "the meatiest release ever"
[18:11] <MarkDude> lol
[18:11] <MarkDude> Damn, I need to respond to this, and also go back to the Fedora naming issues- STILL being talked about.
[18:12] <philipballew> Now I wonder if I should still go to oscon
[18:16] <philipballew> good luck responding MarkDude
[18:17] <MarkDude> YES
[18:17] <MarkDude> go there
[18:17]  * MarkDude has never planned on not going
[18:18] <MarkDude> Even the account I created said - I will be there
[18:18] <philipballew_> If there is not a Ubuntu booth, then its a lot of money to get in iirc
[18:18] <MarkDude> Go to CLS the weekend before
[18:18] <MarkDude> Nope
[18:18] <MarkDude> there are free expo passes
[18:19] <philipballew_> hum,  there is still a chance a Ubuntu booth will pop up
[18:19] <philipballew_> odd that Mark Shuttleworth is keynoting yet no Ubuntu booth
[18:20] <MarkDude> They will get a booth
[18:20]  * MarkDude will bet money on it
[18:20] <MarkDude> They know I will grandstand
[18:21] <philipballew_> well If they do, I will be there.
[18:21] <bkerensa> philipballew: even if we get a booth they are only giving out two passes for booth holders this year
[18:21] <bkerensa> although their is a free expo pass for all dot orgs... just use "FREEORG"
[18:21] <philipballew_> Yeah, I stll have other ways to ger in
[18:22] <philipballew_> bkerensa, no worries.
[18:23] <MarkDude> Well - there has been extra RH budget money set aside to pay for Fedora there. Since they are NOT a non-profit. I dont think I could use the free pass option
[18:24] <MarkDude> That I understand and take no issue with. Fedora is willing to pay
[18:24] <MarkDude> Ubuntu should not- due to it being a charity
[18:30] <bkerensa> philipballew: I am almost certain that they will not give out anything except a free expo pass
[18:30] <bkerensa> unless your a speaker, have a booth or know someone at O'Reilly
[18:31] <scientes> ubuntu is a charity?
[18:31] <scientes> even though ubuntu != canonical i didn't think it was non-profit
[18:31] <bkerensa> scientes: Canonical is a corporation
[18:31] <bkerensa> scientes: Ubuntu is a Community
[18:31] <scientes> or at least 501(c)3 non-profit
[18:31] <scientes> which is usually what ppl mean when they say non-profit in the US
[18:32] <bkerensa> scientes: You dont have to be a 501(c)3 non profit to get a dot org booth
[18:38]  * MarkDude is paid for already
[18:44] <scientes> http://humblebundle.com/
[18:45] <scientes> Average Windows: $6.50
[18:45] <scientes> Average Mac: $8.53
[18:45] <scientes> Average Linux: ....
[18:45] <scientes> **$11.35**
[21:34] <bkerensa> philipballew: u around?
[21:47] <philipballew_> bkerensa, yeah
[21:47] <bkerensa> philipballew: I got the answer I needed :D
[21:48] <philipballew_>  nice! what exactly did they say?
[21:53] <philipballew_> bkerensa,
[21:54] <bkerensa> phi
[21:54] <bkerensa> philipballew: yeah?
[21:55] <philipballew_> what exactly did they say?
[22:09] <MarkDude> bkerensa, wow
[22:10]  * MarkDude did not know you were older than me
[22:10] <MarkDude> Woulda bet some money you were younger
[22:11] <bkerensa> MarkDude: what? How am I older than you
[22:11] <bkerensa> >.<
[22:11]  * bkerensa is not old
[22:11] <MarkDude> Your page says you were born in 1963
[22:11] <bkerensa> WTF
[22:11]  * MarkDude would guess you maybe meant 1973?
[22:12] <MarkDude> Its ok Grandpa, let's tell these damn kids to get off of our lawn
[22:12] <bkerensa> wow fixed
[22:12] <MarkDude> Make sure you are wearign bathrobe while saying so
[22:12] <MarkDude> lol
[22:12] <MarkDude> Figured that mighta slipped by
[22:13] <MarkDude> No more Grandpa Ben, I will have to stick with calling you Uncle Ben
[22:14] <MarkDude> Wow, so you had to put 4 digits for your Bday, and you blew it on TWO of them? :P
[22:15] <philipballew_> bkerensa, I bet your an AARP member as well?
[22:17]  * MarkDude heard he not only dyes the hair on his head, he also does his eyebrows
[22:17] <MarkDude> They are TOO uniform
[22:18] <philipballew_> MarkDude, sooner or later he might have to consider an elderly care living facility.
[22:18] <MarkDude> True. But it wont be too bad
[22:19] <MarkDude> He is able to get free stuff rather easily. He will get some free depends, and maybe viagra
[22:19] <MarkDude> :D
[22:20] <philipballew_> he can review them like he does regularly :)


[00:04] <jelmer> SamB_MacG5: everything runs slowly with --coverage
[00:53] <delinquentme> what determines that a file is a branch
[01:20] <fullermd> A file isn't a branch  ;p
[01:30] <delinquentme> but like for it to be a branch ... the dir only needs a .bzr dir within it right?
[01:34] <fullermd> No, a .bzr dir just means there's a bzrdir there.
[01:34] <fullermd> A bzrdir _may_ contain a branch.  It _may_ contain a repository.  It _may_ contain a working tree.
[01:34] <fullermd> It may contain any 2 of the 3, or any 3 of the 3.  It's probably technically possible for it to contain 0 of the 3 too, though that would be stupid.
[02:16] <SamB_MacG5> fullermd: of course a .bzr dir can contain none of them
[02:16]  * SamB_MacG5 runs "mkdir .bzr"
[02:21]  * SamB_MacG5 is rather puzzled by the way "bzr bisect run" does  a "bzr bisect start" internally, but the tests try to set up a bisect range *before* that, which will be cleared out by that ...
[02:23] <fullermd> You're supposed to do things _before_ I preemptively declare them stupid, y'know   :p
[02:26] <SamB_MacG5> well, I didn't actually do it, so there!
[02:28] <SamB_MacG5> and why am I not reassured by the fact that none of the scenarios covered by the bisect tests have uncovered any real bugs in my attempt to add revspec ranges to "bzr bisect start" and "bzr bisect run"?
[02:29] <SamB_MacG5> granted, maybe the bugs only exist in my head, but ...
[02:29] <SamB_MacG5> it would be nice to find those too