 (Photo, 627x551) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/QjUl3IMS/file_17430.jpg Display configuration widget stopped working since my upgrade to eoan
 Okay, after reboot it works. What is happening?
 Is there any bug for this? No way can I test multimonitor.
 There are a number of bugs but nothing exactly alike. It looks like it happens only after the first login into a fresh Plasma session
 nice timing then!
[09:32] <crydotsnake-M> Good morning
[11:52] <crydotsnake-M> RikMills: How can i make the Statusbar transparent?, like you did on your Desktop.
[11:58] <RikMills> crydotsnake-M: choose a plasma theme where it is transparent. or make a modified one by pinching the tasks.svgx and panel-background.svgx from a transparent one
[11:58] <RikMills> s/svgz
[11:59] <crydotsnake-M> Okay. And you are using the Breeze theme?
[12:01] <RikMills> baseTheme=breeze-dark
[12:01] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:01] <crydotsnake-M> Okay.
[12:02] <crydotsnake-M> Cuz i want to switch to Kubuntu 19.04 tomorow! :). I will see how i can customize my desktop :D
[12:06] <crydotsnake-M> Cuz I'm using KDE Neon at the moment.
[12:06] <RikMills> cyphermox: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rikmills/mine.tar.gz
[12:06] <RikMills> crydotsnake-M: ^^^
[12:06] <RikMills> that is basically all mine is
[12:06]  * RikMills curses tab complete
[12:15] <crydotsnake-M> Okay. Thanks ! :))
[12:30] <crydotsnake-M> Do you like Mechanical Keyboards for programming?l
[12:31] <crydotsnake-M>  * Do you like Mechanical Keyboards for programming?.
[12:44] <crydotsnake-M> Oh and where i have to put the files in the folder?.
[12:46] <RikMills> ~/.local/share/plasma/desktoptheme/
[12:47] <RikMills> I have not preference on keyboards
[12:47] <RikMills> *no
[12:47] <crydotsnake-M> The Mine folder or just the files.
[12:47] <RikMills> Mine folder
[12:48] <crydotsnake-M> Okay. and now Choose Breeze Dark in the settings?
[12:49] <RikMills> In Destop theme, you should see a new theme called 'Mine'
[12:49] <RikMills> k
[12:49] <crydotsnake-M> Hm now, there is no theme called mine
[12:51] <crydotsnake-M> Maybe cuz i'm using KDE Neon?
[12:51] <crydotsnake-M> Nvm
[12:52] <crydotsnake-M> I have it! :)
[12:53] <crydotsnake-M> It looks nice! :D
[12:54] <RikMills> only with a dark colour scheme I think
[12:54] <crydotsnake-M> I will search a good dark colour scheme. I'm sure i will find something! :))
[12:54] <RikMills> it was a VERT quick hack to get the transparency
[12:54] <RikMills> VERY
[12:54] <crydotsnake-M> But it works.
[12:54] <crydotsnake-M> :D
[12:55] <crydotsnake-M> But i saw the Statusbar is already a bit transparent in Kubuntu 19.10
[12:55]  * RikMills nods
[12:56] <RikMills> yeah. but where I always have a dark wallpaper, it doesn't look it
[12:56] <RikMills> whereas complete transparency does
[12:56] <crydotsnake-M> It always has to be dark! :))
[12:56] <crydotsnake-M> Good for the eyes :))
[12:56] <RikMills> exactly
 (Photo, 1280x867) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/1gPgU0gu/file_17436.jpg
 Dark is GOOD
[13:01] <crydotsnake-M> Amazing: 😍
[13:03] <crydotsnake-M> But how have you changed the color from your statusbar. If i choose a color the statusbar doesent change.
[13:06] <RikMills> not sure to be honest. I've tweaked things over a long time and forget some things I did
[13:06] <crydotsnake-M> Okay :))
[15:29] <genii> Not sure why, but 18.04.3 when going to console with ctrl-alt-F#, returning to the X session takes up to 10 minutes and sometimes more for all the screens to return. In the alternate console, top will show Xorg at between 60 and 80% even with no applications open
[17:01] <santa_> RikMills: just FYI I fixed the kate autotests for 19.08 @ git
 thanks!
 @santa_, thanks !
 @RikMills, 🙈 u should published your "dark blueish" theme :)


[10:29] <darkxst> Noskcaj, ricotz gtk 3.16 will land this week
[10:30] <darkxst> Ive done merges for mutter and gnome-shell, but wont have time for the rest of core packages
[12:41] <LinDol> hi all :)
[13:19] <Rodrigo5244> hey
[13:32] <LinDol> hi Rodrigo5244 :)
[13:36] <Rodrigo5244> How is it going?
[13:41] <LinDol> I am pretty tired and stressfull. :-/
[13:41] <LinDol> how about you?
[13:42] <Rodrigo5244> I am sorry to hear that. I am actually happy today.
[13:42] <Rodrigo5244> Solved a bug this morning :)
[13:48] <LinDol> That is OK. Wow, really?
[13:48] <LinDol> what was your bug? :)
[13:49] <Rodrigo5244> It was on my code. A javascript function to check if an image was successfully loaded. I was using the error event, but that was not working for some servers on Epiphany, so I change it to naturalWidth property of the img tag.
[13:50] <LinDol> wow, it was good :)
[13:51] <LinDol> so, did you have github?
[13:51] <LinDol> If you are ok, I want to see some code in your github :)
[13:52] <Rodrigo5244> I do have an account on github, because my last job had code on it. But I have never upload one of my personal projects there.
[13:52] <Rodrigo5244> I am planning to.
[13:52] <Rodrigo5244> I will make a new website for myself, and put some of my projects there.
[13:52] <Rodrigo5244> My current website I made when I was in high school I think.
[13:53] <LinDol> Wow. :)
[13:54] <Rodrigo5244> I am thinking, If I can run Skyrim on virtualbox I am going to get rid of my Windows partition. What do you think?
[13:54] <LinDol> It was surprise :), when did you make a web site first?
[13:54] <Rodrigo5244> I don't know. When I was a kid I made a website using that geosite tools from Yahoo.
[13:56] <LinDol> Unfortunately, I don't know yet about Skyrim.
[13:56] <Rodrigo5244> It is a game. It is supposed to use the GPU a lot.
[13:57] <LinDol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim is this?
[13:57] <Rodrigo5244> Yes
[13:58] <LinDol> Oh.. I think.
[13:59] <LinDol> I will not use Virtualbox to play Skyrim.
[13:59] <LinDol> haha..
[14:01] <LinDol> because I think, if i am playing game to enjoy, i want optimized environment for playing game.
[14:01] <LinDol> sorry, i still learnning english :)
[14:01] <Rodrigo5244> But I don't want to boot Windows bug system that takes forever.
[14:01] <LinDol> I am still learnning english. so i want you to understand this mean.
[14:01] <Rodrigo5244> Me too, lol.
[14:02] <LinDol> haha
[14:02] <LinDol> Thank you.
[14:02] <LinDol> so but,
[14:02] <LinDol> I think you should to choose. :)
[14:03] <Rodrigo5244> It is complicated to me. The headphones on Windows only work if I boot Linux first. It is so annoying.
[14:03] <LinDol> more powerfull! or I don't want to reboot!!
[14:04] <Rodrigo5244> I don't know how slow skyrim will be on Virtualbox, if is playable I will choose don't want to reboot.
[14:04] <LinDol> Yeha. I think
[14:05] <Rodrigo5244> Where are you from?
[14:05] <LinDol> Even if sorry to late, i think you can try to play it on Virtualbox.
[14:05] <LinDol> oh..
[14:06] <LinDol> I am living in Korea (South of Korea)
[14:06] <LinDol> How about you?
[14:06] <Rodrigo5244> Brazil.
[14:06] <Rodrigo5244> Are you a programmer?
[14:06] <LinDol> Wow,
[14:06] <LinDol> Yes, you too?
[14:07] <Rodrigo5244> Trying to be.
[14:07] <LinDol> It was good. :)
[14:07] <Rodrigo5244> I finish collage, but I feel I lack practical knowledge. So I am developing my JavaScript skills before I get a new job.
[14:07] <Rodrigo5244> What language do you use?
[14:08] <LinDol> um,
[14:08] <LinDol> just language?
[14:08] <Rodrigo5244> What do you mean?
[14:08] <LinDol> I like java language. :)
[14:09] <Rodrigo5244> One time I made a game in Java. Some people didn't play it because they didn't want to download the VM. So annoying.
[14:10] <Rodrigo5244> If the VM came pre-installed that would be very nice.
[14:10] <LinDol> Yes it is.
[14:10] <Rodrigo5244> Not on Windows I think.
[14:11] <Rodrigo5244> I head that they have a center in South Korea to help people addicted to games. Is that true?
[14:12] <LinDol> Yes it is ture. but People doesn't like it.
[14:12] <LinDol> really doesn't like it.
[14:13] <Rodrigo5244> Why not?
[14:13] <LinDol> Because, I think game is not drug.
[14:14] <Rodrigo5244> Humm, but I also heard that there are people who is truly addicted to games.
[14:14] <LinDol> but some politician said that "Game is drug!"
[14:15] <LinDol> yeha.
[14:15] <LinDol> I heard that,
[14:17] <LinDol> sorry, I can't talk to you about this to speck english for detail.
[14:17] <LinDol> T_T
[14:17] <Rodrigo5244> You mean you don't know how to talk about that in English?
[14:20] <LinDol> My mean, I want to talk to you about that, but I can't talk to you for more information, because I am still learnning english.
[14:22] <Rodrigo5244> I see.
[14:22] <Rodrigo5244> Do you use Java on your work?
[14:23] <LinDol> Yes I do. :)
[14:24] <LinDol> but I want to study GTK3 programming in the future :)
[14:29] <LinDol> Have a good night :)


[00:20] <javier_XXX> LO
[00:20] <javier_XXX> HELLO
[09:47] <joenutfet> I am trying to install ubuntu studio to my machine, I clicked 'install ubuntu' and now I have a screen saying 'ubuntu studio linux for creative humans'
[09:47] <joenutfet> how long should i wait for the loading?
[09:47] <cfhowlett> joenutfet, no feedback or change for how long?
[09:47] <joenutfet> its been loading for like 10 minutes now
[09:47] <cfhowlett> joenutfet, too long.  did you md5sum your iso and how are you booting: usb/cdrom?
[09:48] <joenutfet> sorry?
[09:48] <cfhowlett> !md5sum|joenutfet,
[09:48] <cfhowlett> check your ISO to ensure it's a good download
[09:49] <cfhowlett> they DO get scrambled especially on direct download ... use torrents whenever possible
[09:49] <joenutfet> thanks, i will do
[18:20] <ubuntu-studio> hello
[18:52] <davidjmemmett> Hi, I'm having some ALSA underrun issues, and I'm wondering if anyone's around to help
[18:52] <davidjmemmett> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1186621
[18:52] <davidjmemmett> (the issue I raised)
[21:40] <ryanpcmcquen> I'd like to help with Ubuntu Studio
[21:41] <ryanpcmcquen> if there's room ;-)
[21:45] <Unit193> ryanpcmcquen: Nice!  What'd you like to help with?
[21:45] <ryanpcmcquen> what needs help?
[21:45] <Unit193> (There is also a #ubuntustudio-devel you may want to join.)
[21:45] <Unit193> They know much more than I.
[21:46] <ryanpcmcquen> yeah
[21:46] <ryanpcmcquen> i'll hop in there
[21:47] <Unit193> This being the weekend, responses will be slow, but Ubuntu Sudio can use help in several different areas, testing and such.
[21:47] <ryanpcmcquen> thanks


[10:29] <jbailey> doko: Is Ubuntu gcc in bzr now for gutsy?
[10:45] <doko> jbailey: no, using svn.debian.org
[10:45] <jbailey> is it a branch, or merged/
[10:46] <doko> merged


[02:50] <emgent> morning
[12:44] <Iulian> Hey
[12:45] <steve555> Hi there.
[12:45] <Iulian> Hello steve
[12:45] <steve555> Hi Iulian
[12:46] <steve555> Where are you from?
[12:54] <steve555> I did have an annoying problem over the last few days.I'm running Kubuntu Hardy Heron,over the last week,after about an hour of booting into Kubuntu,the whole desktop used to completely freeze-up!it would take a few re-sets to get it going again.So I investigated inside my P.C suspecting it was my Graphics Card.I took my Graphics Card out of it's slot,blew as much dust as I could from it's fan,and made sure it was se
[12:54] <steve555> curely seated in it's AGP slot and started up again.So far my computer hasn't froze since :)
[12:58] <james_w> hi Iulian, congratulations on becoming a member.
[13:02] <Iulian> Hello james, thank you.
[13:02] <Iulian> Hey pedro
[13:02]  * Iulian - lunch!
[15:25] <bddebian> Boo
[15:26] <jpds> !gary
[15:26] <bddebian> :)
[15:43] <afflux> hi
[17:10] <jcastro> stgraber: I'm going to start posting to the brainstorm blog starting today
[17:11] <jcastro> stgraber: I figure one developer response every few days, since some are rather large
[17:12] <stgraber> jcastro: ok
[17:37] <tzd> I was wondering if it's possible to suggest a "fix" for the Firefox3 packet? I'm on kubuntu and i've noticed a few other kubuntu users have this issue: greyed out default application for extensions box in FF
[17:39] <tzd> the fix one guy suggested in a forum solved my issue and probably a lot of others as well. By installing the packet "firefox3-0-gnome-support" it worked like a charm. I was wondering if it's possible to have that automatically included when choosing to install the Firefox3 packet please?
[17:40] <Hewus> tzd: you can file bugs at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug , but check first that it hasn't already been reported
[17:40] <tzd> Hewus: ah ok, thanks!
[17:40] <Hewus> tzd: no worries, thank you for helping!
[17:41] <Hewus> bug #37272 documents an old bug fixed in gparted, but "new" in xfsprogs. I suspect the bug didn't apply to this package in the first place; is it safe to just mark it invalid, or should I still ask for info and mark it incomplete?
[17:41] <ubot3> Malone bug 37272 in gparted "gparted segfaults on access to XFS volume on LVM" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37272
[17:42] <Hewus> whoa, bot fight
[17:44] <bdmurray> tzd: firefox-3.0-gnome-support is suggested by firefox-3.0.  How did you install?
[17:44] <tzd> bdmurray: i right clicked on Firefox-3.0 in adept and choose install... it only adds that packet
[17:45] <bdmurray> hmm, that might be a feature of adept
[17:45] <tzd> bdmurray: ah ok... so if i do it via apt-get i'll get the gnome support included?
[17:46] <bdmurray> tzd: no, you'd need to use aptitude, update-manager or maybe synaptic
[17:46] <bdmurray> mvo_: can you help here?
[17:47] <tzd> bdmurray: ok, although since it won't work with adept i should still file a bug report right?
[17:47] <bdmurray> tzd: I don't belive so not every package manager installs "Suggested" packages
[17:48] <mvo_> tzd: none of the package managers install suggests by default
[17:49] <\sh> that's what I thought right away when I saw this discussion..recommends yes (aptitude) but not suggests
[17:49] <mvo_> personally I think that firefox should depend on fierfox-3.0 and gnome-support and for people who do not want this, they should just install firefox-3.0
[17:49] <mvo_> but that is a decision of the package maintainer of ff
[17:49] <tzd> bdmurray: adept usually installs required packages... don't know if there's a difference in handling "required" or "suggested" but shouldn't this gnome support be included since it won't work properly without it? Or does it interfere in some other way perhaps?
[17:49] <mvo_> \sh: yep
[17:50] <\sh> if adept is installing suggests, it's a bug
[17:50] <mvo_> tzd: I'm pretty sure its only "suggests" because some people think they should be able to get ff without the gnome libs it pulls in
[17:51] <Hobbsee> bdmurray: suggests ahve never been installed by default...
[17:51] <Hobbsee> bdmurray: that being said, i don't think adept currently supports recommended packages being installed by default.
[17:51] <tzd> mvo_: hmm ok. Oh well, I'll leave it then.
[17:52] <bdmurray> mvo_: Is there a table somewhere of package managers and how they deal with recommended / suggested?
[17:52] <mvo_> tzd: just open a whishlist bug so that it becomes a recommends. we install those by default now in intrepid
[17:52] <mvo_> bdmurray: in intrepid it should be all consistent again "recommends-by-default" by everything, suggests by nothing
[17:52] <tzd> mvo_: ah ok. Can i do it here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug#form-start ?
[17:53] <mvo_> bdmurray: in hardy it was "recommends-by-default: aptitude", "recommends-by-default for everything else only for packages in the section "metapackages"
[17:53] <\sh> bdmurray, if i'm  correct: aptitude == recommends by default, no suggests, apt-get == no recommends (for hardy and before), no suggests, for intrepid recommends by default
[17:53] <bdmurray> mvo_: okay, thanks
[17:53] <mvo_> tzd: that sounds right, please check if this bug is not reported already and please also add a bit of information what functionatlity is misisng without -gnome-support
[17:54] <tzd> mvo_: yeah will do. Haven't found any similar though
[17:54] <mvo_> bdmurray: it was a bit inconsistent in the past, mostly for historical reasons, but its all good now (I hope :)
[18:01] <jcastro> stgraber: If an ubuntu developer wants access so they can post under the developer comments I should send them to you guys?
[18:04] <stgraber> jcastro: yep
[18:04] <stgraber> (until we have Launchpad integration done)
[18:06] <jcastro> ok
[18:10] <tzd> mvo_: ok I've filled it out, although i can't see any alternative to change it to "wishlist" ?
[18:11] <tzd> shall i just add that to the title perhaps?
[18:15] <bdmurray> tzd: I can set it to wishlist for you what bug number is it?
[18:16] <tzd> bdmurray: cool, I'll just post it :)
[18:18] <tzd> bdmurray: #236850
[18:57] <amikrop> Hello. Any progress with the Change Keyboard Layout bug?
[18:57] <amikrop> I think it is quite serious.
[19:43] <mattik> Hello, my kubuntu-kde4 was cracked
[19:43] <mattik> and it wasupdated
[19:44] <hggdh> mattik: what do you mean by "was cracked"?
[19:44] <mattik> there is usename named in zenoss in /home-folder
[19:45] <hggdh> mattik: you mean you now have a new user in /home, and you did not create it?
[19:45] <mattik> I had hole in my firewall, but I hadn't installed ssh
[19:46] <mattik> it was in 22-port
[19:46] <mattik> Yes, I mean
[19:47] <mattik> You can scan my ports now. I'm in windows
[19:47] <hggdh> mattik: we will *not* scan you
[19:47] <mattik> ok
[19:48] <hggdh> mattik: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
[19:48] <mattik> Hardy, and kde4
[19:48] <hggdh> mattik: is this your personal computer?
[19:48] <mattik> yes it is
[19:49] <mattik> Inform I cert.fi?
[19:49] <hggdh> mattik: perhaps, if you can gather more data
[19:50] <mattik> hggdh, where can I paste screenshot on zenoss home-folder?
[19:51] <hggdh> mattik:  use pastebin services, for example http://pastebin.ca
[19:51] <mattik> thank you
[19:51] <hggdh> and then post the URL
[19:54] <hggdh> mattik: did you install zenoss packages (http://www.zenoss.com)
[19:54] <mattik> oh yes
[19:54] <mattik> sorry
[19:55] <mattik> I wondered how I have heared it :D I'm really sorry
[19:56] <mattik> That's good to hear
[19:56] <mattik> I didn't become cracked
[19:57] <afflux> mattik: in general, you can't get cracked by just having a port "not blocked" in any firewall, unless you really have a service running on it.
[19:58] <mattik> ok, but I don't trust browsers
[19:58] <hggdh> mattik: probably not... but it is a good lesson to keep in mind
[19:58] <mattik> ok, thanks
[19:59] <hggdh> mattik: you need code running on your computer to be owned.
[19:59] <mattik> ok, thanks. This is good to hear
[20:00] <mattik> So I don't need firewall on kubuntu
[20:01] <hggdh> mattik: you should have a firewall, and a paranoid view
[20:02] <mattik> hggdh: what is firewall for kubuntu? Is it firestarter?
[20:02] <mattik> I have router's firewall
[20:09] <mattik> thank you :) I'm glad that you don't laugh me out
[20:48] <jcastro> stgraber: what do you think about a "wontfix"-style resolution for brainstorm?
[20:48] <jcastro> something like "thanks but the idea, but this won't be implemented."
[20:50] <stgraber> jcastro: indeed, I'm not 100% sure of the point of having "Inaplicable" as for me it'd then be wontfix, deleted or not an idea
[20:50] <stgraber> jcastro: btw, you should join #ubuntu-testing so you can also speak with Nicolas
[20:50] <hggdh> jcastro: just out of curiosity -- an explanation of why it "won't be fixed" will be provided, right?
[20:51] <jcastro> hggdh: well yes, of course.
[20:51] <stgraber> hggdh: a developer comment would be added then yes
[20:51] <hggdh> good idea, then
[21:41] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/235889 somebody check plz :)
[21:41] <ubot3> Malone bug 235889 in linux "BUG: scheduling while atomic: archhttp64/7146/0x1000000001" [Undecided,New]
[21:42] <jpds> hmm, two bots
[21:42] <dupondje> seems so :P
[21:44] <dupondje> anyway ? can check ?
[21:44] <dupondje> :)
[21:47] <ogasawara> dupondje: I'll take a look
[21:47] <dupondje> thx ogasawara :)
[21:48] <ogasawara> dupondje: I think the kernel team recently rebased the Intrepid kernel with 2.6.24-rc4
[21:48] <ogasawara> dupondje: so I may have you test when it's available
[21:48] <dupondje> but then I have to upgrade to Intrepid ?
[21:48] <ogasawara> dupondje: not really, I've got instructions for testing from the kernel-ppa
[21:49] <dupondje> isn't it possible to patch it in the Hardy kernel ?
[21:49] <ogasawara> dupondje: if we can narrow down the exact patch
[21:49] <dupondje> I can try some patches ...
[21:50] <dupondje> from diffs of the 2 kernels ...
[21:50] <ogasawara> dupondje: do you have an idea which patches to test?
[21:50] <dupondje> but what file would be important ? :)
[21:50] <ogasawara> dupondje: might be easier doing a git bisect
[21:50] <ogasawara> dupondje: if you're familiar with performing one
[21:51] <dupondje> I tried to patch the scheduler with the 2.6.26-rc4 diff :p
[21:51] <dupondje> but didn't fix it
[21:53] <dupondje> the BUG message is printed from scheduler.c right ?
[21:53] <dupondje> but what triggers it ? :)
[21:54] <ogasawara> dupondje: I'll post some info to the report just in case others running into the same bug might benefit
[21:54] <dupondje> okie :D
[21:54] <dupondje> will try it this weekend ... cause the pc is not here :)
[21:54] <ogasawara> dupondje: ok thanks
[21:55] <dupondje> I need to thank you :)
[22:02] <ogasawara> dupondje: just curious when you tested the upstream 2.6.26-rc4 kernel did you use an ubuntu kernel config to build the kernel?
[22:03] <dupondje> yes
[22:03] <dupondje> just copyed it ;)
[22:03] <ogasawara> dupondje: great thanks
[22:03] <dupondje> and made a .deb from it
[22:03] <dupondje> with make-kpkg ?
[22:03] <dupondje> :)
[22:10] <emgent> heya
[22:28]  * dupondje reads
[22:28] <dupondje> :P
[22:34] <dupondje> thx for instructions
[22:35] <dupondje> i'll try this weekend ...


[01:14] <micahg> knome: I thought I uploaded that keyboard fix already
[01:27] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
[02:09] <micahg> hrm
[02:09] <micahg> is that a blocker for beta 1?
[08:30] <ochosi> ali1234: the icons are still misplaced in the gtk3 indicators even with greybird (in saucy)
[08:30] <ali1234> yeah, the icons are
[08:30] <ochosi> so there is definitely something fishy there
[08:31] <ali1234> it's because of the code that tries to make the indicators go in to rows if the panel is big
[08:31] <ali1234> it's terrible and doesn't work properly
[08:31] <ochosi> :/
[08:31] <ali1234> i've been reading it all night
[08:31] <ali1234> my only conclusion is it has to go. it cannot be fixed
[08:32] <ochosi> but generally speaking it works
[08:32] <ali1234> kind of
[08:32] <ochosi> i mean if you extend the panel to 50px you get multiple rows
[08:32] <ali1234> if you don't mind the icons bouncing around
[08:32] <ochosi> which is kinda helpful
[08:33] <ali1234> multiple rows isn't that useful really
[08:33] <ali1234> it only works with "small" icons
[08:33] <ochosi> but the indicators are fixed to 22px
[08:33] <ali1234> no, they're not actually
[08:33] <ali1234> 22px is the minimum size
[08:33] <ochosi> weird, they should be
[08:33] <ali1234> they can be bigger
[08:34] <ochosi> but they don't scale up atm
[08:34] <ali1234> like the datetime
[08:34] <ali1234> yeah, they do
[08:34] <ali1234> the code to determine the size is really complicated
[08:34] <ochosi> yeah, imo that should all go
[08:34] <ochosi> just fix the size to 22px and be done with it
[08:34] <ali1234> you can't
[08:34] <ali1234> datetime isn't 22px
[08:34] <ali1234> multiload isn't fixed width either
[08:34] <ochosi> but upstream fixes all iconsizes to 22px
[08:35] <ochosi> iirc
[08:35] <ali1234> well it might think it does, but it actually doesn't
[08:35] <ochosi> okie...?
[08:35] <ali1234> 22px is only the minimum size of any indicator but it does MAX(ICON_SIZE, gtk_pixbuf_w) and so on
[08:36] <ali1234> as part of the real calculation
[08:36] <ali1234> there is code which will scale the icon to 22px but only if the icon is square, and many aren't
[08:37] <ali1234> the code also forces text labels to be 22px high for no particular reason - that's why datetime is misaligned vertically when the panel size is odd
[08:37] <ochosi> :/
[08:38] <ochosi> so basically even ubuntu screws it up, and it only works for their scenario because their panel doesn't resie
[08:38] <ochosi> resize
[08:38] <ali1234> yeah
[08:38] <ochosi> that blows
[08:39] <ochosi> i'd suggest you explain that to andrzejr...
[08:39] <ochosi> i'm not really sure what the best course of action would be
[08:39] <ali1234> me neither
[08:39] <ali1234> i can't see a way to rewrite this that will work with all the corner cases
[08:40] <ochosi> well i'd say if it works without the corner cases it's still so much better than what we have now...
[08:40] <ali1234> i have it mostly working after disabling the multiline stuff but it still not quite right
[08:40] <ali1234> oh, the corner cases are why it's broken
[08:40] <ochosi> tbh i think that switching to a menubar would be one solution
[08:40] <ali1234> because of how gtk cntainers work
[08:41] <ochosi> that'd also solve all theming issues
[08:41] <ali1234> if you have a container with all different size things in it, it doesn't align/resize properly
[08:41] <ochosi> yeah, no wonder
[08:41] <ochosi> and then there are 3 different panel modes (horiz,vert,deskbar)
[08:41] <ali1234> but the way this works is that things can be 22px *or more*
[08:41] <ochosi> makes things even more complicated
[08:41] <ali1234> the panel orientation is actually the simplest part
[08:42] <ochosi> but can't at least the vertical 22px be fixed?
[08:42] <ochosi> just let it expand horizontally
[08:42] <ali1234> the broken code is dutifully cased to be broken in exactly the same way for both :)
[08:42] <ochosi> awesome
[08:42] <ochosi> reporting a bug upstream then maybe?
[08:42] <ali1234> yes, you can fix it to 22px, but if you do that with the text indicators, they don't align properly with everything else on the panel
[08:43] <ochosi> sounds like you could send an email to the ayatana ML
[08:43] <ali1234> it doesn't have anything to do with ayatana...
[08:43] <ali1234> it's more to do with themes
[08:44] <ali1234> you can't hard code the size of indicators, because you don't know what size the icon or font is going to be
[08:44] <ali1234> the container needs them all to be the same size, but in order for text to align properly, they all have to be the same height as the natural height of the gtk label, which you can't know without knowing the font
[08:45] <ochosi> but what do you expect from the theme?
[08:45] <ali1234> nothing
[08:45] <ali1234> the point is, it can change
[08:45] <ochosi> what can change?
[08:46] <ali1234> the font and the font size
[08:46] <ochosi> yeah, but that could even be fixed by the theme (at least in gtk2 it could)
[08:46] <ali1234> and for the other indicators, the icon from the icon theme
[08:49] <ochosi> generally speaking i'd say if it works for our default setup, that's (almost) good enough
[08:50] <ali1234> it's easy to make it work correctly with fixed size panel, and specific theme, icons, and font/font sizes
[08:50] <ali1234> the problem is if you change even one of those it goes wonky
[08:51] <ali1234> can you send me a screenshot of the "wrong" icons?
[08:53] <ochosi> what do you mean with wrong?
[08:53] <ochosi> you mean because i said they're not centered?
[08:53] <ali1234> yeah
[08:53] <ochosi> they're just off by 1px
[08:53] <ochosi> too close to the bottom
[08:53] <ochosi> like you mentioned yesterday
[08:53] <ali1234> all of them?
[08:53] <ali1234> or just some of them?
[08:54] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105358am.php
[08:54] <ochosi> it seems like all of them
[08:54] <ochosi> but e.g. the synapse indicator looked totally off too
[08:54] <ochosi> but i wouldn't bother with single indicators and their particular behavior
[08:54] <ali1234> what if you make the panel bigger by exactly 1 pixel?
[08:54] <ochosi> it looks better, but it
[08:55] <ochosi> 's still base-aligned
[08:55] <ochosi> this is 26px (+2): http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105521am.php
[08:55] <ali1234> you need a minimum of 28px with the default settings
[08:56] <ochosi> doesn't look different to me in terms of centering
[08:56] <ali1234> when you mouse over the icons are they all the same size?
[08:57] <ochosi> yes
[08:58] <ochosi> btw, the soundmenu is awfully broken
[08:58] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105816am.php
[08:59] <ali1234> lolwat
[08:59] <ochosi> yeah, no clue what's up with that
[08:59] <ali1234> maybe you're missing libido
[08:59] <ali1234> ok, you see how the blue background fills the panel when you mouse over the sound menu?
[08:59] <ochosi> nope, that's installed
[09:00] <ochosi> yeah
[09:00] <ochosi> i see that
[09:00] <ali1234> what happens if you make the panel be say 50px and then mouse over the wifi icon?
[09:00] <ochosi> so the widget scales up, but the iconsize is fixed (which is what i was talking about before)
[09:00] <ali1234> or the message icon
[09:00] <ochosi> still a small blue hover square
[09:00] <ali1234> right. but the sound one is the full height, yeah?
[09:01] <ochosi> no, they're all the same
[09:01] <knome> micahg, nope.
[09:01] <ali1234> well, that's different to what i see
[09:01] <knome> micahg, you might've uploaded, i don't know. i'm asking because the bug/blueprint statuses says you didn't
[09:01] <knome> micahg, i'm fine if it lands before final.
[09:01] <ali1234> here, the sound icon isn't square, so it fails the is_small test and gets extended to full panel height
[09:02] <ochosi> i see
[09:02] <ochosi> i'll recompile the plugin then
[09:02] <ali1234> so unless you've overridden the height in the theme...
[09:02] <ochosi> not reall
[09:02] <ochosi> y
[09:04] <ochosi> ali1234: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-110418am.php
[09:04] <ochosi> (after having recompiled the plugin)
[09:04] <ochosi> before i just did a make install from the version i built in raring
[09:04] <ochosi> so as you can see it's still square
[09:05] <ochosi> but the soundmenu is weird
[09:05] <ali1234> sound menu looks fine now
[09:05] <ochosi> what, it's supposed to be like that?
[09:05] <knome> ubottu, the OEM iso produces unrecoverable errors when trying to boot into what's supposed to be the end-user config
[09:05] <ali1234> that's how it's supposed to look if you have loads of music players installed, yes
[09:05] <ochosi> shouldn't the playcontrols be hidden?
[09:05] <ali1234> no
[09:05] <ochosi> at least in raring they were
[09:05] <knome> Unit193, the OEM iso produces unrecoverable errors when trying to boot into what's supposed to be the end-user config
[09:06] <ochosi> aha, the playbutton even works and starts up gmusicbrowser
[09:06] <ochosi> so they changed that
[09:06] <knome> Unit193, "The installer encountered an unreoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or try installing again."
[09:06] <ali1234> ochosi: give this a try: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/tree/child-alloc
[09:06] <knome> Unit193, click "OK" -> launches a GUI again, same error -> infinite loop
[09:06] <ali1234> it will probably still be broken, but in a different way
[09:07] <ochosi> actually the current version doesn't seem broken to me at all
[09:07] <ochosi> it's just off by 1px
[09:07] <ali1234> try a different theme
[09:07] <ochosi> that's not a criterion
[09:07] <ochosi> themes have to be fixed
[09:07] <ali1234> well, try that version anyway
[09:07] <ochosi> sure ;)
[09:07] <ochosi> i just wanted to say, it's not as bad as it sounded
[09:08] <ali1234> it's not bad with greybird because of all the special casing you;ve done... but that's just papering over the cracks
[09:08] <knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_testing/xubuntu-oem-fail.png
[09:08] <ochosi> ali1234: no, not really
[09:08] <ochosi> it's clear that this *needs* special theming
[09:08] <ali1234> it doesn't need special theming
[09:08] <ochosi> it does :)
[09:09] <ochosi> how shall it pick up the colors from the gtk2 panel in your opinion?
[09:09] <knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_testing/xubuntu-oem-fail-tty.png
[09:09] <ali1234> by having the gtk2 theme and the gtk3 theme set the same colour for the panel
[09:09] <ochosi> yeah, but there is no common class for that
[09:10] <ochosi> and themes still would have to be fixed
[09:10] <ochosi> not all themes behave that way
[09:10] <ochosi> many set a gradient in gtk3, but not in gtk2 because it wasn't possible
[09:10] <ochosi> whoops, you renamed -plugin to -applet?
[09:11] <ali1234> background colour doesn't really have anything to do with overriding the button sizes and padding though
[09:11] <ochosi> does that mean i can install both side by side?
[09:11] <ali1234> i didn't rename anything afaik
[09:11] <ochosi> true, background color is just the basis, if that's broken it looks totally broken :)
[09:12] <ali1234> oh, i guess i renamed the repo ... it won't make any different
[09:12] <ochosi> you know, even ambiance themes its indicators other than regular buttons
[09:12] <ochosi> so it's expected that indicators don't look like regular buttons
[09:12] <ochosi> i thought it'd be ideal if the gtk3 indicators in the xfce plugin would pick up that theming
[09:12] <ochosi> but i'm not sure it's possible
[09:13] <ali1234> hmm... no
[09:13] <ali1234> it's possible
[09:13] <ochosi> i thought it might work by setting the widget-name to unity-panel or something along the lines of that
[09:13] <ali1234> all you have to do is set the names of the gtk classes right
[09:13] <ochosi> or setting the correct widget-class
[09:13] <ochosi> well then let's get on with it! :)
[09:14] <ali1234> here's the thing
[09:14] <ochosi> :)
[09:14] <ali1234> when i set the theme to ambiance, indicators look like normal buttons for me
[09:14] <ochosi> mhm
[09:14] <ali1234> they look the same as the main menu button
[09:14] <ali1234> the corners are perhaps a little more round but that really is just gtk2/3 differences
[09:15] <ochosi> just to mention that in advance: ambiance and radiance don't have great support for the xfce panel
[09:15] <ali1234> right
[09:15] <ali1234> they don't apply any special theme to the xfce panel, and they don't apply any special theme to indicators
[09:16] <ochosi> in gtk3 they do
[09:16] <ali1234> well i can't see it
[09:16] <ali1234> i think you mean they do in unity
[09:17] <ochosi> where's the difference?
[09:17] <ochosi> that's what gtk3 is for ubuntu
[09:17] <ochosi> at least in the panel
[09:17] <ali1234> not at all
[09:17] <ochosi> so the unity-panel is qt now?
[09:18] <ali1234> just using gtk3 for the panel isn't enough to make the special theming work
[09:18] <ali1234> when the indicator registers on the panel it just gives a gtk label and a gtk image
[09:18] <ali1234> the applet itself has to make the actual button
[09:18] <ali1234> so the ones made by xfce don't get themed
[09:19] <ali1234> even though they are really (really) gtk3 buttons
[09:19] <ali1234> this is why the indicators look the same as the other panel stuff - none of it has any special theming
[09:20] <ochosi> you're still referring to ambiance and radiance, right?
[09:20] <ali1234> anything at all except greybird as far as i can tell
[09:20] <ali1234> maybe not even that
[09:21] <ochosi> greybird does theme all kinds of plugins differently on the xfce panel
[09:21] <ochosi> that's why the panel has its own gtkrc file
[09:21] <ali1234> yeah
[09:21] <ochosi> and that's how it's supposed to be imho
[09:22] <ochosi> that's why all shimmer themes try to do stuff to the panel
[09:22] <ochosi> make the indicators look like they're better integrated into the panel than mere buttons
[09:22] <ali1234> the point is you can't reliably theme something that doesn't work with no customizations at all
[09:22] <ochosi> (as an eample)
[09:22] <ochosi> yeah, but we're talking about distro-level here
[09:23] <ochosi> not upstream xfce
[09:23] <ochosi> xubuntu is the only distro that *really* benefits from that plugin
[09:23] <ochosi> and if we ship it, we ship themes with it that work with what we have
[09:23] <ochosi> and if people want to use other themes, they oughta fix them up
[09:23] <ochosi> for me it's as simple as that
[09:24] <knome> +1
[09:24] <ali1234> if you want to patch every theme to fix the problems then that's fine
[09:24] <knome> ali1234, we don't, and we won't
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, that was the original plan :)
[09:24] <ali1234> but you're going to need different tweaks in each one
[09:24] <ochosi> i mean shimmer-themes
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, according to each theme
[09:24] <ali1234> which has what, 5 themes in it?
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah
[09:24] <knome> 5 themes is doable
[09:24] <ochosi> but as i wrote most of them, i know my way around them
[09:24] <ochosi> and the fixes are tiny
[09:25] <ochosi> in comparison to other ubuntu messes i had to clean up in the past
[09:25] <ali1234> hahaha
[09:25] <knome> it's a fair price to pay to get gtk3 indicators back and not having to maintain the gtk2 indicator stack
[09:25] <ali1234> you won't be able to fix the theme in a way that works if someone resizes the panel by 1 pixel
[09:25] <ochosi> sure
[09:26] <ali1234> knome: the gtk2 version of this applet was no better
[09:26] <ochosi> not sure what you consider broken about a larger panel
[09:26] <ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/light-themes/saucy/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/unity.css#L18
[09:26] <ochosi> this is the code unity uses ^
[09:26] <ochosi> even the border width is changed to something odd
[09:26] <ochosi> so don't tell me they don't use special theming for indicators ;)
[09:26] <ali1234> they do
[09:26] <ali1234> but none of that code will apply under xfce
[09:26] <ochosi> unless we set the correct class
[09:27] <ali1234> so you get a standard button unless you patch every theme
[09:27] <ochosi> which is what i suggested before
[09:27] <ochosi> (in the plugin, that is)
[09:27] <ali1234> it still won't look the same though
[09:27] <ali1234> because the widget tree is different and has different properties (gtk properties, not css)
[09:28] <ochosi> i know i know
[09:28] <ochosi> which is why i said earlier, that switching to a menubar is the only way to get reliable theming
[09:28] <ochosi> when wanting to recycle the unity theming
[09:28] <ali1234> yes
[09:28] <ochosi> otherwise there'll always have to be a fix
[09:28] <ali1234> the unity theming will look terrible with the current code
[09:28] <ochosi> until the gtk3 panel for xfce arrives
[09:28] <ali1234> especially if it goes into two rows
[09:28] <ochosi> if there's a gradient, then for sure
[09:29] <ochosi> as long as only bg and fg color are picked up, it might actually help
[09:29] <ochosi> but i don't think it's worth fiddling with that
[09:29] <ochosi> i'll patch the themes we ship, and we'll be done with it
[09:29] <ochosi> we can even write a blogpost about how to fix your theme
[09:29] <ali1234> the unity themes don't modify fg and bg explicitly for the indicators
[09:29] <ochosi> and in a few weeks, the most-used themes will carry fixes
[09:30] <ochosi> yeah, which is why it'd have to inherit the unity-panel class (or UnityPanelWidget)
[09:30] <ali1234> no, the unity-panel class does not set explicit fg and bg for the panel
[09:30] <ochosi> it does, this is the bg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/light-themes/saucy/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/unity.css#L3
[09:30] <ochosi> and the fg is in line10
[09:30] <ali1234> hmm, ok
[09:31] <ochosi> btw, your branch doesn't look any different to upstream here
[09:31] <ochosi> maybe i need to recompile the panel too?
[09:31] <ochosi> (but i wouldn't think so)
[09:31] <knome> ali1234, that's debatable, but for the purposes we are doing this, it's not the poing :)
[09:31] <ali1234> no, you need to switch to a theme that hasn't been bodged to hide the problems.. but meh
[09:31] <knome> *point
[09:31] <ochosi> ah :)
[09:31] <ochosi> ok, will do
[09:32] <ochosi> ambiance looks nice with it
[09:32] <ochosi> but the bg color of the panel is still wrong
[09:32] <ochosi> because ambiance doesnt make it dark for the xfce panel
[09:32] <ali1234> yeah but that's the bg colour of the whole panel, not just indicator applet
[09:32] <ochosi> yeah, but unthemed = broken (imo)
[09:33] <ochosi> the indicator-buttons now look nicer than the appmenu button (which looks like a regular button)
[09:33] <ali1234> well i'd rather have the whole panel unthemed than half of it
[09:33] <ochosi> so what exactly did you change there?
[09:33] <ali1234> i changed the GtkAlign to CENTER instead of FILL
[09:34] <ochosi> i see
[09:34] <ali1234> and i changed the label minimum height to 1px instead of ICON_SIZE
[09:34] <ali1234> and i removed a whole load of "+1" when the result gets divided by two
[09:34] <ochosi> so the label can be smaller than the icon-size?
[09:34] <ali1234> and i fixed the is_small() function so it doesn't fail on non-square pixbufs
[09:34] <ochosi> doesn't that get a bit hard to read?
[09:35] <ali1234> no, because it's only the minimum
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, but that means it scales down, no?
[09:35] <ali1234> it does MAX(ICON_SIZE, gtk_prefered_height(widget))
[09:36] <ali1234> expanding doesn't stretch the contents
[09:36] <ali1234> it just fills in with empty space
[09:36] <ali1234> which isn't necessarily the same size on the top and the bottom
[09:36] <ali1234> hence the 1px misalignment (or one source of it anyway)
[09:38] <ochosi> but what i notice is that the button-borders are chopped off with your branch on a 24px panel
[09:38] <ali1234> probably
[09:39] <ochosi> same in ambiance and in greybird
[09:39] <ali1234> actually no, the borders are always visible
[09:39] <ali1234> the icons however, get cropped
[09:39] <ali1234> if you make the panel really small
[09:40] <ochosi> the top and bottom border on the button are chopped off too, unless i make the panel 28px tall
[09:41] <ochosi> which doesn't seem to be the case with the upstream version
[09:41] <ali1234> screenshot it?
[09:41] <ochosi> sure, one sec
[09:43] <ali1234> some things to note: the icons *never* get scaled
[09:43] <ali1234> only ever cropped or padded
[09:43] <ali1234> same goes for the text labels
[09:43] <ali1234> but, the icons are not all the same size, they're not even all the same shape
[09:44] <ali1234> and some indicators generate "icons" in real time, and can change shape on the fly
[09:44] <ali1234> i haven't yet seen on with an icon and a label, but that would cause it's own set of problems
[09:47] <ochosi> mhm, i see
[09:47] <ali1234> wait, is that a deskbar?
[09:47] <ochosi> a vertical panel that has horizontal items
[09:47] <ali1234> no, they're always vertical
[09:47] <ochosi> (in short)
[09:49] <ochosi> http://imagebin.org/269833
[09:49] <ochosi> left is 26px
[09:49] <ochosi> right is 28px
[09:49] <ochosi> if you look closely, you'll see the highlight-border on the top right
[09:50] <ochosi> ok, gotta run (lunch)
[09:50] <ochosi> bbabl
[10:11] <knome> Unit193, do we know if the OEM mode works for xubuntu generally?
[10:11] <Unit193> I don't.
[10:11] <knome> i suppose that would be my next step then
[10:41] <ali1234> ochosi: try this one: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/commits/child-alloc-2 - with greybird it should have vertical consistency down to 22px
[10:41] <ali1234> the cost is that the row stacking is completely disabled
[10:43] <knome> down to 22px? does that mean it'll break with smaller panels?
[10:44] <ali1234> yes
[10:44] <ali1234> the panel that is in xfce now breaks when smaller than 28px, so this is an improvement
[10:45] <knome> why? that's far from optimal
[10:45] <knome> depends...
[10:45] <ali1234> because when the panel gets smaller than 28px, the vertical alignment explodes
[10:46] <knome> seems to work well for me
[10:46] <ali1234> you probably just didn't notice
[10:46] <ali1234> it is only out by 1 px
[10:47] <knome> i'd notice if it was ugly
[10:48] <knome> Unit193, same error with the regular image
[10:48] <ali1234> put an indicator-datetime next to the xfce clock applet, then resize the panel. they only have the same alignment if the panel height is even and >=28px
[10:49] <Unit193> Isn't that great...
[10:49] <knome> Unit193, yes!
[10:49] <Unit193> Lets hope since I basically have the beta, it works.
[10:49] <knome> Unit193, what works? :)
[10:50] <Unit193> Modified OEM. :P
[10:50] <knome> heh
[10:50] <knome> why would it?
[10:50] <Unit193> Magic, and I'm tired.
[10:50] <knome> if you looked at the screenshot, the theme isn't even greybird
[10:50] <knome> there's something fishy in there
[10:50] <knome> there was no guarantee it'd work anyway
[10:50] <knome> brb, phone
[11:20] <Unit193> knome: Did you get the stacktrace on bootup too?  I saw it when I removed quiet splash, but not sure what it's related to.
[11:20] <knome> nope
[11:20] <knome> i would imagine there is simply some bit we need to push for the oem installation to work
[11:21] <Unit193> Could ask quality if main works.
[11:21] <knome> well it most probably does
[11:21] <knome> i believe that's the thing
[11:21] <knome> it's made to work with main, but not flavors
[11:22] <ochosi> ali1234: will check it out now
[11:22] <knome> which is why no flavor had an oem slideshow before either
[11:22] <ochosi> ali1234: and i just compiled master, not your child-alloc branch before by accident... :/ sorry bout that
[11:23] <Unit193> Blame xonx, call it a day. ;)
[11:23] <knome> hah
[11:24] <Unit193> Not sure what the traceback was for, oh well.
[11:24] <knome> :)
[11:25] <ochosi> knome: in general the indicators work nicely btw
[11:25] <knome> ochosi, good to hear that
[11:25] <ochosi> i really think it's not too much of a stretch to pull them in
[11:26] <Unit193> Considering how many times we've heard about it....
[11:26] <knome> in to... ?
[11:26] <Unit193> ochosi: General?
[11:26] <ochosi> Unit193: general what?
[11:26] <ochosi> knome: well at least backports
[11:26] <knome> ok
[11:26] <ochosi> Unit193: i haven't found anything so far that doesn't work with them
[11:26] <knome> ochosi, he means s/in general/generally/ ? :P
[11:26] <ochosi> i mean in terms of functionality, everything seems nice
[11:27] <ochosi> some misalignments of icons in indicators that we don't install by default
[11:27] <ochosi> but nothing dramatic
[11:28] <Unit193> Cool, ISOs are going away.
[11:28] <knome> Unit193, wha?
[11:29] <ochosi> by the way, it seems like shutting down throws me back to the login screen in saucy
[11:29] <ochosi> doesn't that sounds familiar?
[11:29] <knome> ochosi, aha
[11:29] <knome> :<
[11:30] <ochosi> that's after upgrading
[11:30] <ochosi> have to see whether i can debug it
[11:35] <knome> would like to see the logout/lock problem fixed first :<
[12:01] <ochosi> knome: btw, i can reproduce the logout bug
[12:01] <ochosi> in general, lightdm seemingly has become very sloooow
[12:03] <knome> aha
[12:05] <ochosi> i mean trying to log out or shut down the session takes ages
[12:05] <ochosi> and yeah, i can confirm both bugs
[12:05] <knome> bah
[12:05] <ochosi> shutdown *and* logout don't work as expected
[12:06] <ochosi> we should get in touch with some lightdm folks asap
[12:06] <ochosi> not sure what the best way would be
[12:06] <ochosi> i could report a bug, and you could send an email to the lightdm ML pointing to the bug and that this is quite a problem for us
[12:06] <ochosi> (wearing your XPL hat)
[12:07] <knome> i can do that
[12:07]  * ochosi looks at reporting the bug
[12:14] <ochosi> knome: ubuntu switched to logind from policykit as far as i know (in 13.10)
[12:14] <ochosi> so that might also affect us in some way, maybe lightdm doesn't work properly anymore with polkit or something
[12:14] <ochosi> systemd is definitely installed here
[12:14] <ochosi> i mean logind (which is only a part of systemd)
[12:14] <knome> okay
[12:15] <knome> that's out of my expertise, but good to know the debugging is progressing ;)
[12:15] <ochosi> i'll ask around a bit more
[12:15] <Unit193> Yeah, several systemd packages you can't remove
[12:15] <ochosi> (logind is supposed to handle sessions)
[12:28] <ochosi> wowza, evince3.8 has two gear menu buttons...
[12:29] <elfy> do they have syncromesh?
[12:29] <ochosi> the two buttons are distinct though
[12:29] <ochosi> different functionality
[12:29] <ochosi> i assume the second gear is the fallback from gnome3's appmenu
[12:33] <knome> ->
[12:48] <Unit193> elfy: Seemed like "everyone pick on balloons" time. :D
[12:48] <smartboyhw> Unit193, everybody should pick on balloons:P
[14:44] <micahg-work> knome, I didn't upload that yet, I'll do it over the weekend
[14:59] <knome> ochosi, you around?
[15:16] <ochosi> knome: now i am
[15:17] <knome> ochosi, have you talked with mterry about lightdm?
[15:17] <ochosi> no, i haven't
[15:17] <ochosi> i don't know mterry (yet)
[15:17] <knome> just a pointer, and he seems to be on ir
[15:17] <knome> irc
[15:17] <knome> if you want to catch up with him, i can do the initial poking
[15:18] <knome> (i don't know him either, but i don't care)
[15:18] <ochosi> sounds good
[15:18] <ochosi> i wanted to ask cavalier about some xfsession input first
[15:18] <ochosi> pinged him while ago
[15:18] <ochosi> so maybe wait a lil longer
[15:18] <knome> well i already did
[15:18] <knome> :P
[15:19] <ochosi> hehe
[15:19] <ochosi> ok
[15:19] <knome> but he's "busy" too, so...
[15:19] <ochosi> yup, we'll see
[19:25] <elfy> knome: when you're about I'd like to talk to you about test results
[19:26] <ochosi> elfy: any issues shutting down?
[19:26] <elfy> nope
[19:26] <ochosi> i end up at the greeter when i do that
[19:26] <elfy> why? have you had those?
[19:26] <ochosi> ok, then maybe that's my private issue
[19:26] <elfy> oh - ok - yea you do :)
[19:26] <elfy> I did have those a while back - I created a bug for it
[19:26] <ochosi> ah, where?
[19:27] <elfy> but that's been fixed
[19:27] <ochosi> it has?
[19:27] <elfy> well it has for me :)
[19:27] <ochosi> hm, i see
[19:27] <ochosi> can you still dig up that bugreport for me
[19:27] <elfy> hang on - looking
[19:27] <ochosi> please?
[19:27] <ochosi> thanks!
[19:27] <Unit193> I don't either, FWIW.
[19:28] <elfy> gonna be longer - I must have commented or something
[19:31] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-session/+bug/1178373
[19:31] <elfy> no idea whu I missed that
[19:31] <elfy> ochosi: ^^ that's the bug I had
[19:35] <ochosi> meh, i didn't have "proposed" activated by default
[19:36] <ochosi> thanks elfy°
[19:36] <ochosi> !
[19:36] <ochosi> the logout > unlock bug prevails?
[19:37] <ochosi> sounds like it could come from the same source (logind and xfce4-session)
[19:37] <Unit193> proposed isn't generally recommended on -devel.
[19:38] <elfy> ochosi: logout/unlock continues to be a pain
[19:38] <elfy> like the sound indicator
[19:39] <elfy> I really shouldn't have said turn on the upgrade tests :|
[19:40] <elfy> doing 64 bit in vm, doing 32bit on the lappy
[19:40] <ochosi> i have working gtk3 indicators here anyway ;)
[19:41] <ochosi> and to the worst i always know how to use the cli
[19:41] <elfy> lol
[19:41] <Unit193> CIL?
[19:41] <elfy> ochosi: I've been watching the gtk3 indicator chats - I've not been ignoring it - I've just had one of those weeks
[19:43] <ochosi> well it's all working dandy
[19:43] <ochosi> we just have to convince micahg by testing it more of us
[19:45] <elfy> well I'll be about shortly - happy to lend a hand where I can of course :)
[19:49] <ochosi> it entails a bit compiling from git and stuff
[19:50] <elfy> I am sure I can more or less manage ...
[19:51] <elfy> might get the odd - what ?
[19:51] <elfy> it's up to you :)
[19:54] <ochosi> hehe
[19:54] <ochosi> sure, if you need help, feel free to ping
[19:55] <elfy> ochosi: I'll look back over the logs tomorrow - see what I can decipher first
[20:05] <ochosi> elfy: if you need a set of instructions, i can send them to you via email
[20:05] <ochosi> or pastebin them
[20:06] <elfy> ochosi: that would be a good start - you want to mail them me - elfy at ubuntu.com
[20:08] <ochosi> elfy: sent
[20:09] <elfy> thanks ochosi - I'll have a look later
[20:11] <ochosi> ok, great!
[20:11] <ochosi> gotta take an early one tongiht
[20:11] <ochosi> tonight
[20:11] <ochosi> seeya!
[20:11] <elfy> night ochosi
[20:16] <knome> elfy, yes?
[20:17] <knome> elfy, i'll be here when you get back :)
[20:30] <skellat> How are we doing on LP #1219592 so far?  Can we sneak it in still for a last beta re-spin maybe perhaps maybe?
[20:31] <knome> skellat, after b1
[20:31] <knome> and that reminds me we should double-check the release notes are in shape
[20:34] <skellat> knome: Understood.  I don't remember us being in the last release announcement even though we released.
[20:34] <knome> we didn't make much fuss about it
[20:34] <knome> but we should do a news article for b1 as well
[20:40] <skellat> knome: May I PM you a link?
[20:40] <knome> sure
[20:43] <elfy> knome: just a quick one - the 2 beta tests - not upgrade  - are done now - the only fails are the lightdm lang bug - as far as I can see they can be marked released - that ok with you
[20:43] <elfy> and I'm half way through upgrade ones - but might not finish
[20:43] <knome> brb in 5
[20:45] <elfy> ok
[20:51] <knome> yeah, i'm with releasing
[20:55] <elfy> okey doke
[20:56] <knome> err, i meant to say "i'm ok with releasing", but that's just the same message anyway ;)
[20:56] <elfy> that's what I read it as :)
[20:56] <knome> yep
[20:56] <knome> i was the one filing the fails anyway
[20:57] <knome> and they basically just mean we have a bug to squash, not that one can't use the system
[20:57] <knome> but the locking bug is nasty
[20:57] <elfy> yep - saw - was why I checked:)
[20:57] <knome> we really need to have that fixed
[20:57] <elfy> yea agreed - not nice it needs fixing
[20:57] <knome> it's not just "not nice", for me it's release-critical
[20:58] <elfy> marked the 2 beta products as ready
[20:58] <knome> or at least really close
[20:58] <elfy> yep
[20:58] <elfy> we need to really tie up these 'mmm reallyy' bugs
[20:58] <knome> bah, stop using the numeric numeral, the heart keeps bouncing to my throat because it thinks you're talking about "beta 2" :P
[20:58] <elfy> just starting the 32bit upgrade tests now
[20:59] <elfy> ha ha ha
[20:59] <elfy> by starting I mean installing 13.04 so I can test it ...
[20:59] <elfy> that's the 2nd test on the Beta page :p
[21:00] <knome> awwh
[21:01] <elfy> but seriously - the not being able to logout/lang bug would give me puase for thought when it comes to releasing
[21:02] <elfy> on a postive note now that stgraber has released that fix hopefully we can push for those tests soon
[21:02] <knome> yup
[21:02] <knome> mhm
[21:03] <knome> it's not the languages..
[21:03] <knome> it's the "not able to log out"
[21:03] <knome> or you are, but lightdm doesn't acknowledge that
[21:03] <knome> and that sucks
[21:03] <elfy> yea
[21:03] <elfy> agreed
[21:03] <elfy> language might be small - but it appears to be part of the same issue
[21:04] <knome> it definitely is
[21:04] <knome> it's fixed when the originating issue is
[21:05] <elfy> yea
[21:07] <elfy> I really wish that in 1981when I got the chance to change profession and get into computers I'd not said 'what?'
[21:07] <elfy> I might have had half a chance of actually fixing things :)
[22:46] <micahg> knome: I"ll be unavailable until Sun morning UTC, so if you need something before then, you'll have to find someone
[22:51] <elfy> have a good time till then micahg :)
[22:51] <micahg> thanks
[22:51] <elfy> you're welcome :)
[23:38] <elfy> knome: all tests run now - goodnight :)


[00:14]  * DanaG wonders if Jaunty will have 2.6.29.
[00:14]  * gourgi don't think it will
[00:28] <Volkodav> I wonder when they will add xfce 4.6 ?
[01:06] <pwnguin> is anyone else having a problem with font kerning?
[01:26] <dyf> hello.. my sound was working earlier today and for some reason i can't play any sound.. i went to System > Preferences > Sound and it won't start.. how can i troubleshoot my sound?
[01:27] <sirhcjw> can any one give me some info about this error udevd [$A]: unable to open 'etc/udev/rules.d': No such file or directory
[01:29] <andersk> sirhcjw: bug 315780?
[01:32] <RAOF> Mmmm, sweet nvidia craziness.
[02:04] <Volkodav> does anybody have gnome remembering sessions ? mine does not
[02:08] <hggdh> Volkodav, +1
[02:08] <Volkodav> looks like a bug in gnome
[02:08] <hggdh> look at your ~/.xsession-errors
[02:11] <Volkodav> I use xfce really but I want the new 4.6
[02:14] <Volkodav> http://pastie.org/377968
[02:14] <Volkodav> I do not see anything about sessions
[02:15] <subliminal> i just noticed jocky now accepting nvidia
[02:15] <subliminal> on jaunty
[02:15] <subliminal> anyone tried it yet ?
[02:21] <subliminal> i the only one silly enough to run jaunty ?
[02:24] <Volkodav> nah
[02:24] <Volkodav> all these 158 ppl most likely too
[02:24] <subliminal> cool
[02:24] <subliminal> k im wondering
[02:25] <subliminal> im pretty new to linux
[02:25] <subliminal> will jaunty kepe updating till its the same as the full release in april ?
[02:25] <subliminal> or will i have to reinstall
[02:25] <Pici> !final
[02:25] <Volkodav> things breal occasionally in alphas
[02:25] <subliminal> k
[02:26] <subliminal> latest intrepid ?
[02:26] <subliminal> yeah i install;ed aplha 3...done all the upgrades ansd updates
[02:27] <subliminal> so by the time full release come...ill already have the same os im guessing
[02:27] <subliminal> thats pretty handy
[02:51] <Volkodav> so it is  4.6 in repos already
[02:51] <Volkodav> I wonder which beta is it ?
[03:10]  * DanaG hopes somebody will at least offer a 2.6.29 PPA for Jaunty.
[03:10] <DanaG> And once the K edition comes out, I'll likely move to that.  =P
[03:12]  * DanaG is reminded of Krusty the Klown.
[04:02] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/284319
[04:42]  * DanaG wonders when AMD will release a new fglrx.
[04:42] <DanaG> ... for the new ABI, I mean.
[04:42] <DanaG> I'm actually not griping -- I like the open ATI far better than the open NV.
[05:39] <DanaG> http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-glassybleu.png
[05:39] <DanaG> Ooooh, glassybleu.
[06:09] <maco> any of you having trouble with wpa networks and nm-applet? knetworkmanager does fine, but i can't connect to my network in gnome
[09:09] <stefanlsd> Is anyone else having problems saving with OO3. The dialog appears but its blank and OO hangs...
[09:09] <maco> i cant even get OOo3 to start
[09:10] <maco> it just shows the splash screen then hangs
[09:37] <stefanlsd> maco: i see my problem was related to a broken libx11 and the updates fixed it
[11:40] <rainmanp7> Gdmorning Everybody :)
[12:42] <rainmanp7> Can someone look at my boot chart and tell me what is slowing it down ?
[12:46] <rainmanp7> I think it's from the slow hard drive specs because I don't have somthing set
[12:46] <rainmanp7> I need to get more then 30 Megs a second transfer on hard drive any Ideas ?
[12:52] <rainmanp7> I need to get more then 30 Megs a second transfer on hard drive any Ideas on a scuzzi ?
[12:53] <TheInfinity> rainmanp7: buy a new hard drive?
[12:53] <TheInfinity> use sata?
[12:55] <rainmanp7> nah this drive is running on a udma cable
[12:56] <rainmanp7> The infinity yes i have 2 sata drives not hooked up
[12:56]  * TheInfinity gets about 100 mb/s at his eSATA drives, but at IDE  i never got much above 30 MB/s
[12:56] <rainmanp7> TheInfinity yes i have 2 sata drives not hooked up but I'm testing on a udma drive running as a scuzzi
[12:58] <TheInfinity> you wont get much more then 30 MB/s ...
[12:59] <rainmanp7> TheInfinity Ok can you take a look at my boot thing and tell me what's slowing it down ?
[13:01] <rainmanp7> TheInfinity Um I have like 9 Hard drives jsut sitting around and 2 sata and 1 ide sitting in machine
[13:02] <TheInfinity> rainmanp7: i dont think you will get more speed out of an ide disc
[13:06] <rainmanp7> TheInfinity Maybe I can tweak the boot up ? take a look at my bootchart thing and tell me where I'm going wrong ?
[13:06] <rainmanp7> TheInfinity and maybe give some ideas
[13:07] <TheInfinity> rainmanp7: i'm not so good at getting 1 or 2 mb/s more out of a disc ;)
[13:07] <TheInfinity> i just buy a better disc or a raid if need more speed
[13:07] <TheInfinity> your drive speed is normal
[13:07] <rainmanp7> yeah I'm really thinking of RAID
[13:07] <TheInfinity> IDE is slow compared to sata
[13:10] <rainmanp7> Yeah but I know these hard drives can crank allot faster
[13:11] <rainmanp7> or something hehe
[13:13] <rainmanp7> thanx man i'm gonna try some things and will be back :)
[13:14] <TheInfinity> buy a new sata disc? :p
[13:14] <rainmanp7> I would rather have a solid state drive
[13:15] <rainmanp7> running on pure memory :)
[13:15] <TheInfinity> also sata interface ;)
[13:15] <rainmanp7> yeah like a Raid of solid ste drives would even be better
[13:15] <rainmanp7> Raid of Solid State Drives :)
[13:15] <rainmanp7> ok let me try some things I will be back :)
[13:15] <TheInfinity> rainmanp7: raid6 of usual disc is fast enaught
[13:16] <TheInfinity> i mean about 800 MB/s is difficult to handle
[14:38] <rainmanp7> Ok I got the boot time down to 22 sec from 25 by moving the renderacell to the Driver sercions in Xorg and adding the noatime,nodiratime to Fstqab as well as adding the /etc/init.d/rc CONCURRENCY=shell
[14:39] <rainmanp7> http://www.flickr.com/photos/34993488@N05/3249926921/
[14:40] <rainmanp7> Render Acell and video crap was in the screen section wich didn't work well So i moved them to the video driver section
[14:43] <rainmanp7> now i get the waiting cursor thing and things work well :)
[15:04] <Turms> is updating from intrepid to jaunty possible or should i dl the cdimage and install from it?
[15:06] <Turms> 158 zombies? :-D
[15:07] <DanaG> My boot is ~37 seconds.  Fast enough for me -- Intrepid was 45 to 60.
[15:10] <histo> Why is xchat blinkiing like someone sent me a m3essage?
[15:10] <histo> I've been idle for days
[15:30] <rainmanp7> .
[15:32] <rainmanp7> Turms I wanted the ext4 thing so i changed my partition and formated etc.. I haven't tried just installing over top the itrepid
[15:34] <rainmanp7> yeah I wanted the new kernal thing as well :)
[15:39] <Turms> rainmanp7: ok, thanks
[15:39] <rainmanp7> Turms you got any idea how to boost IO time ?
[15:41] <maco> rainmanp7: be warned that its possible for new data to not be written at all if you get a system crash with ext4
[15:41] <DanaG> If I use data=journal, it'll ensure I at least have the old data intact, right?
[15:42] <DanaG> I'd rather  have old data intact following a crash, than have new data corrupt.
[15:42] <rainmanp7> maco :) yeah I'm goona switch it to realtime and take of the nodirtime thing
[15:42] <DanaG> realtime can reduce throughput, I've heard -- realtime is all about latency.
[15:42] <maco> DanaG: old data's fine regardless. but whatever you were working on may not have even been written to the journal at all .....i think thats how the bug works
[15:43] <DanaG> Aah.  I had heard of it making files of zero size.
[15:43] <maco> right
[15:43] <maco> though i suppose if it was in the middle of modifying an old file...
[15:43] <rainmanp7> hrmmm
[15:44] <maco> not sure what would happen in that situation, but i'd keep backups just in case
[15:44] <DanaG> I do.  Weekly, at least.
[15:45] <DanaG> I keep all my critical data on my Windows partition, because I have to work with Office 2007 for collaboration and such.
[15:45] <DanaG> Random side note: HP's netbook theme:
[15:45] <rainmanp7> This is just a test hard drive anyways I'm trying to configure it to be stable with the best throughput
[15:45] <DanaG> http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-glassybleu.png
[15:45] <Turms> DanaG: dritical data on win partition? ahahahahah
[15:46] <rainmanp7> I like screen shots will be right back
[15:47] <Turms> ok i've started the upgrade to jaunty, afterwards i'll clone the partition to an ext4 one
[15:48] <maco> DanaG: pretty
[15:48]  * DanaG has to leave now.  Will be back later.
[15:49] <DanaG> Anyway, to get that theme, you have to add the hardy-hpmini repos (deb-src only!) and then apt-get source the relevant packages.
[15:54] <rainmanp7> Ok found something out lol :)
[15:55] <rainmanp7> It was about the the concurren't shell command and moving the drivers for xorg out of the screen section and moving them into the Video driver secction and I'm still at 22secs with turning off the noaitime and the other stuff
[15:59] <rainmanp7> The realtime switch did the trick :)
[16:00] <rainmanp7>  Timing cached reads:   1944 MB in  2.00 seconds = 971.96 MB/sec
[16:00] <rainmanp7>  Timing buffered disk reads:   94 MB in  3.01 seconds =  31.28 MB/sec
[16:00] <rainmanp7> My cache reads jumped by 100 and the buff by 1
[16:01] <rainmanp7> so this is what it looks like now
[16:01] <rainmanp7> ext4    relatime,errors=remount-ro 0       1
[16:03] <rainmanp7> Actually 150
[16:06] <rainmanp7> I was doing 800-821 MB/sec before
[16:09] <danbhfive> !schedule
[16:11] <BUGabundo> I'm looking for Luke Yelavich aka themuso !
[16:15] <BUGabundo> can I get you guys opinion on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/322374/comments/33 ?
[16:21] <maco> BUGabundo: what about it?
[16:21] <BUGabundo> maco: just wanted to know if I should remove the .desktop or not
[16:21] <maco> could put a sleep 5 before it
[16:22] <tgpraveen> so since only 2 days are left for alpha 4 I wanted to ask what new things are coming?
[16:22] <maco> the trouble is pulse tries to initialize while the login sounds are still playing
[16:22] <maco> force it to wait a few seconds, and it should be fine
[16:23] <BUGabundo> I don't have trouble now with the update
[16:23] <BUGabundo> other then I can barely listen to anything
[16:23] <BUGabundo> volume is REALLY low maco
[16:27] <rainmanp7> Ok the hdparm when trying to set DMA or 32 bit transfer on is giving me a Error is there a way around this ?
[16:28] <rainmanp7> I'm really trying to figue out how to turn udma on
[16:30] <BUGabundo> rainmanp7: is it properly connected?
[16:31] <rainmanp7> BUGabundo yeah with it's own cable right to the motherboard nothing else connected to it
[16:31] <rainmanp7> BUGabundo hang on let me take of the cover jsut to make sure ok
[16:32] <BUGabundo> rainmanp7: PATA or SATA»
[16:32] <BUGabundo> ?
[16:32] <rainmanp7> BUGabundo yes one cable nothing on it except 1 hard drive
[16:32] <rainmanp7> WD400 normal IDE drive
[16:32] <BUGabundo> rainmanp7: PATA or SATA?
[16:33] <BUGabundo> from "normal" I'm guessing its PATA
[16:33] <rainmanp7> yes
[16:33] <rainmanp7> big fat cable hehe
[16:33] <BUGabundo> make sure that all pins are fine... sometimes one or two get broken
[16:33] <rainmanp7> O rather the Big flat fat cabble
[16:33] <BUGabundo> that's the main reason for it to not work as DMA
[16:34] <rainmanp7> i got this from some other drives as well with ibex and changed the um cables as well
[16:34] <rainmanp7> hang on let me get the error up k
[16:34] <maco> BUGabundo: did you check in both alsamixer and in the new volume applet?
[16:35] <BUGabundo> yes maco! all at 100%
[16:35] <maco> file a bug against the linux package (default place to file for sound bugs) with your alsa-info.sh output then
[16:36] <BUGabundo> humm the next fix for PA race condition didn't fix everything
[16:36] <BUGabundo> the PulseAudio Manager can't connect
[16:36] <maco> hm?
[16:36] <BUGabundo> let me see if killing PA and restart it fixs the prob
[16:36] <maco> there are multiple race conditions around PA
[16:37] <rainmanp7> BUGabundo ok trying to set the mode gives me this  HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(setxfermode) failed: Input/output error
[16:37] <BUGabundo> nope :|
[16:39] <rainmanp7> BUGabundo but the real nasty one i don't like is using hdparm to set dma or uda or PIO on and i Get Inappropriate ioctl for device
[16:40] <rainmanp7> I have been fighting with this for weeks by myself -> Inappropriate ioctl for device
[16:41] <rainmanp7> I even have the bios set to allow 32 bit transfer
[16:42] <BUGabundo> I'm out of ideas
[16:42] <BUGabundo> maybe it's the board
[16:42] <Trewas> rainmanp7: I don't think you can disable dma with libata drivers, which are used when PATA drive shows up as /dev/sd* instead of /dev/hd*
[16:43] <rainmanp7> I want to Enable the Udma  and flip the swtich to 1 instead of running 16 bit transfer mode
[16:46] <Trewas> rainmanp7: libata should always use the fastest possible settings by default, so there is no need to set DMA on
[16:46] <rainmanp7> Is there a way to do a command in terminal to see what Libata is using currently ?
[16:47] <rainmanp7> or look at a file to see where the hard drive settings it's using are at ?
[16:48] <Trewas> hdparm -i /dev/sdx
[16:50] <rainmanp7> -c1 enables 32-bit I/O and the -X69 should give me the 100mb a sec
[16:56] <rainmanp7> yeah it's using the ATA instead of the PATA
[16:56] <rainmanp7> Not sure how to switch that ?
[17:01] <mahfiaz> can the scrollability be added to pulseaudio system tray icon? is it worth writing a report?
[17:06] <rainmanp7> Thank you for the help and time
[17:07] <maco> mahfiaz: yes, id file a bug on that. its a functionality regression if scrolling doesnt work there but did on the old one
[17:08] <mahfiaz> maco, it quite isn't, the old panel applet is still available
[17:09] <mahfiaz> but as it will likely be replaced, then yes
[17:09] <maco> i believe replacing it is the intention
[17:09] <maco> not sure why theyd keep 2 around...
[17:09] <maco> could ask in #ubuntu-desktop\
[17:11] <rainmanp7> Ok I found only one thing that got me closer
[17:15] <rainmanp7> the file /etc/scsi_id.config and setting the options=-g got me a better transfer rate
[17:15] <rainmanp7>  Timing cached reads:   1958 MB in  2.00 seconds = 978.89 MB/sec
[17:15] <rainmanp7>  Timing buffered disk reads:   94 MB in  3.01 seconds =  31.28 MB/sec
[17:16] <rainmanp7> I found that option on http://hi.baidu.com/wa0362/blog/item/7ea02319a4f7044242a9ad55.html
[17:17] <dust> http://pastebin.ca/1326362
[17:17] <dust> anyone help with this
[17:18] <TheInfinity> dust: looks like dependency problem in packages.
[17:18] <dust> how to fix it?
[17:18] <TheInfinity> wait for new packages? *g*
[17:18] <TheInfinity> write a bug report?
[17:18] <dust> ok..
[17:19] <dust> ok same with isntalling mplayer
[17:20] <TheInfinity> the usual dependency hell in alpha releases ;)
[17:25] <dust> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[17:25] <dust> well have to wait then :D
[17:47] <rainmanp7> yeah that new configuration got me to a 21 sec boot time as well :)
[17:52] <rainmanp7> http://www.flickr.com/photos/34993488@N05/3250352453/
[17:58] <rainmanp7> going to store will be back later :)
[18:02] <biouser> pavucontrol Connection failed: Connection terminated
[18:03] <biouser> I can no longer voodoo firefox to have sound though ardour->jack works properly as ardour effectively disables PA and starts jack.  No luck with firefox sound now though...
[18:04] <biouser> after the update ... I have 2 volume icons on my panel now
[18:05] <biouser> I have input and output which when I mouse-over say 100% and HDA VIA VT82xx = ALC861 Analog
[18:05] <biouser> and another PCM: 100%
[18:59] <JediMaster> hey guys, what's the "official" way to do NAT routing on jaunty?
[19:00] <JediMaster> I've got two network interfaces, defined in /etc/network/interfaces, got dhcp setup and working on the internal network, just need to setup the NAT
[19:46] <KDesk> Is true that Jaunty will include kernel 2.6.29?
[19:46] <tgpraveen> KDesk: no confirmation but mostly
[19:46] <tgpraveen> yeah
[19:47] <KDesk> tgpraveen: will be interesting if that happend :)
[19:48] <tgpraveen> yeah it is always gr8 to have the latest stuff more drivers,suspend resume,faster boots
[19:49] <KDesk> tgpraveen: ah, I have seen a benchmark where jaunty boot very fast, what are the devs doing to get so fast times?
[19:50] <maco> KDesk: more stuff's being built directly into the kernel
[19:50] <maco> the setup and teardown time per module is HUGE
[19:50] <tgpraveen> yeah + code optimization
[19:51] <maco> dtchen told me the setup/teardown per module is..i think he said 0.5 seconds each
[19:51] <maco> got 30 modules to load, thats 15 seconds of your boot right there
[19:51] <maco> apple speeds it up by having one GIANT module per model of machne
[19:52] <KDesk> maco: ah, interesting, so having a kernel with all the stuff needed inside it will make a faster boot?
[19:52] <maco> yes
[19:53] <KDesk> That is the advantage of the apple, they do there OS for there hardware.
[19:53] <maco> i think the downside is that then youve got a bigger memory footprint for the kernel
[19:53] <maco> i mean, if everything was built-in instead of module
[19:54] <maco> because then drivers you dont need would still take up memory
[19:54] <KDesk> maco: and how many ~MB are thatwith jaunty vs intrepid?
[19:54] <maco> i dont onw
[19:54] <maco> *know
[19:54] <maco> i *think* theyre starting conservatively...just putting the "pretty much everyone needs them anyway" modules as built-in
[19:55] <KDesk> yes, that is a good idea. Also more and more the ram is cheaper.
[19:55] <maco> if i remember this conversation correctly (and its been a month and a half so maybe not), i think dtchen named 5 or 6 sound modules that could do that, but he said depending on the system there's an additional 5-7 more per system
[19:55] <Amaranth> maco: The idea is things you _need_ are built-in, things you might someday use are modules
[19:55] <maco> Amaranth: right
[19:55] <Amaranth> maco: For most systems the things you _need_ have a lot in common
[19:56] <KDesk> I have DDR, so that is not my luck..
[19:56] <maco> but a lot of those were done as modules up til now
[19:56] <Amaranth> maco: Right, thus the change
[19:56] <Amaranth> If you build enough stuff in you don't even need an initramfs :)
[19:57] <KDesk> what is that? the initramfs?
[19:57] <maco> initial ram filesystem
[19:57] <KDesk> I didn't understand very well, to search for a module needed and load it, it takes 1/2 seconds? Or which part of the process?
[19:58] <maco> Amaranth you gotta explain initramfs. i dont understand well enough
[19:58] <KDesk> maco: ah, before mounting a "/" FS?
[19:58] <maco> KDesk: yes
[19:58] <maco> its a pivot mount...to switch from initramfs to the / fs
[19:59] <maco> i think thats what its called
[19:59] <maco> im fuzzy on such things...had them explained quickly a couple months ago
[19:59] <KDesk> Will a /boot partition make any gain in speed?
[19:59]  * Amaranth doesn't really know it very detailed either
[19:59] <Amaranth> KDesk: Only if you regularly fragment your /
[19:59] <maco> KDesk: dont believe so
[20:00] <maco> initramfs has all the stuff you need to boot and to mount /
[20:00] <maco>  /boot isnt a performance thing
[20:02] <KDesk> I have a /boot, but I don'n know why... Only because If the kernel where in a last point in the HD it would be slower to read that in the begginign. That was what I have thought.
[20:02] <maco> maybe
[20:03] <Amaranth> iirc the middle is the fastest
[20:03] <maco> middle meaning center physically?
[20:03] <maco> that's the beginning of the disk, i believe
[20:03] <KDesk> I belive that too
[20:04] <maco> i put my swap there
[20:04] <maco> if ive gotta swap, i want it to be fast
[20:04] <KDesk> Because it is a circle. But with the new SSD it won't be a proble, and I won't do a /boot any more.
[20:04] <maco> even if swap is by definition slow
[20:05] <KDesk> I have a 128MB /boot, then a swap, then the "/"
[20:05] <Raffaele> siete inglesi o italiani?
[20:05] <Pici> !it | Raffaele
[20:05] <Amaranth> KDesk: my /boot is 14M
[20:05] <KDesk> I have seen some benchmarks with ext4, it was faster than xfs or reiser3 in some tasks
[20:07] <KDesk> ah my /boot is 251MB hehe. Just in case...
[20:58] <Peddy> In Intrepid, suspend worked, but in Intrepid, with the same nvidia driver as before (173), when I press suspend or do pm-suspend, nothing happens. Is this known, and is there a workaround?
[21:02] <maco> Peddy: in intrepid it works but it doesnt?
[21:03] <Peddy> maco, I mean, in Intrepid it worked, in Jaunty it doesn't.
[21:08] <maco> Peddy: oh ok. well im not a nvidia user, so i cant reproduce that.
[21:08] <Peddy> ok
[21:08] <maco> suspend does work for me on my inteldrivers. kernel panic on hibernate thogh :(
[21:09]  * Amaranth is afraid to try to suspend
[21:09] <Amaranth> ext4 and all
[21:12] <maco> oh yeah. sounds like a bad idea
[21:13] <pwnguin> that's what backups are for ;)
[21:18] <RAOF> Amaranth: Oh?  Are there extra-special ext4 + suspend bugs?
[21:18] <Amaranth> RAOF: no, just "ext4 data loss" bugs
[21:19] <Amaranth> pwnguin: backups of /home don't help my /etc/apt/sources.list being zeroed out
[21:19] <Amaranth> or whatever file
[21:19] <Amaranth> /usr/bin/less
[21:20] <RAOF> Ah, yes. The old 'possibly truncate files on unclean unmount' fun.
[22:24] <x1250> !daily
[23:23] <DanaG> Anyone know how to get my Ricoh R5C438 (I think it was) card reader to work in Ubuntu?
[23:24] <DanaG> er
[23:24] <DanaG> r5c843
[23:30] <Veinor> so what's new in jaunty?
[23:31] <mikegriffin> the packages
[23:31] <Veinor> ?
[23:35] <DanaG> Anyone know how to get my Ricoh R5C843 (I think it was) card reader to work in Ubuntu?  I'm on Jaunty, of course.
[23:43] <genii> DanaG: Did it work in 8.04 or 8.10 ?
[23:46] <DanaG> I'm not sure.  I'll try the liveCD of one of those later today.
[23:46] <DanaG> It's an SDHC card, by the way.  Works in Vista, and even gives me the "boot from SD Card" option my laptop offers.
[23:46] <DanaG> I also have a Ricoh Bay8Controller (SmartCard Reader) that's a hardwired cardbus card, oddly enough.
[23:58] <DanaG> er, 832, not 834.