[06:26] <qq30> is ubuntu phone likely going to be available for WebOS users? Palm Pixi plus user here.
[08:02] <maniyadv> Hi all.. :)
[09:46] <Elessar> does anybody know where to store account stuff?
[09:46] <Elessar> I mean accounts' logins/passwords, connection settings, cached e-mails and so on?
[11:14] <barbarrica> logout
[11:38] <om26er> is there going to be a new channel for the tablet?
[11:38] <om26er> or will this be renamed to something universal ?
[11:39] <smartboyhw> om26er, #ubuntu-tablet
[11:40] <om26er> smartboyhw, ah there's already one ;)
[11:40] <smartboyhw> om26er, yeah
[12:30] <lantizia> Lo... I just bought a Nexus 4 (mainly because I'm sick of using a dead OS called Maemo on my N900 and I'm finally admitting it's time to use android - but ALSO because of this Ubuntu Mobile beta coming out in 2 days time) but it'll take 2 weeks to get here
[12:30] <lantizia> I'm wondering... how likely is it I can dual boot Android and Ubuntu Mobile on it?     or maybe load one from the other?
[12:53] <M4rtinK> lantizia: it's not dead, just resting a bit :)
[12:54] <M4rtinK> & N900 has a hardware keyboard, unlike Nexus 4
[13:46] <doomlord> what can ubuntu for android do/not do compared to desktop & ubuntu phone
[14:03] <bzoltan1>  lantizia:  Does your N900 in a good condition? I would buy it for real money!
[14:10] <daliusd> Hi
[14:10] <daliusd> I have tried using QtTest in Qml and it complains that QtTest can't be found. Any ideas what's wrong?
[14:11] <daliusd> q
[14:19] <lantizia> bzoltan1, yeah but im in the UK
[14:20] <bzoltan1> lantizia: is their an embargo on shiping N900 to abroad? :D
[14:20] <darthmuffins> daliusd: http://qt.gitorious.net/qt-labs/qtest-qml
[14:21] <lantizia> no just letting you know shipping wouldnt be cheap :D
[14:21] <darthmuffins> daliusd: you have to install it separately from Qt
[14:21] <daliusd> darthmuffins, what package?
[14:21] <darthmuffins> qtest-qml
[14:21] <bzoltan1> lantizia: That is not a problem
[14:22] <daliusd> I don't see such package in my system :/ As well I have found somewhere that it is part of qt5.
[14:22] <darthmuffins> you may have to install from source for Qt5, idk if it has been packaged yet
[14:22] <daliusd> And it actually is if I download qt from qt-project
[14:22] <lantizia> bzoltan1, £120 for the phone then?
[14:22] <darthmuffins> daliusd: yes, if you download and install instead of package, you'll get it
[14:27] <daliusd> Ok. I will wait and see what David (dpm?) is doing with unit-testing, jenkins and etc.
[14:28] <daliusd> Thanks and bye
[14:29] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: just read your email on the mailing list, I wouldn't mind a bit of help working out what's wrong if you can
[14:31] <darthmuffins> brunogirin: i just saw this, its a permission issue on the install dir
[14:31] <darthmuffins> Qt creator doesn't have permission to access the file templates for projects
[14:31] <bzoltan1> lantizia: let me think :)
[14:32] <darthmuffins> it will often complain of not being able to write various config files and so on
[14:32] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  Hello... All right, let's fix it
[14:32] <darthmuffins> I just hackattacked it with a chmod -R 777 on the install dir
[14:32] <brunogirin> darthmuffins: shall I restart it in a console to find out what folder it's complaining about? or is it a known one?
[14:32] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  What do you use, Precise/Quantal/Raring? What PPAs do you have enabled? What Qt packages do you have installed?
[14:32] <darthmuffins> (not very clean though)
[14:32] <darthmuffins> where did you install the SDK?
[14:33] <darthmuffins> ahh sorry, you followed the official instructions...
[14:33] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: quantal, using the PPA as per David's email
[14:33] <brunogirin> darthmuffins: yes, I thought this would be less error prone
[14:33] <darthmuffins> sorry, i'll let bzoltan1 help, lets not step on eachothers toes
[14:34] <bzoltan1> darthmuffins:  Sure I will help :) if I can
[14:35] <darthmuffins> bzoltan1: I'm glad to, I just thought two possibly conflicting help streams would not be ideal ;-)
[14:35] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: what the `$ ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*qt*` gives?
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/angeloc-quickly-ubuntu-qt-template-precise.list
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/angeloc-quickly-ubuntu-qt-template-precise.list.distUpgrade
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/angeloc-quickly-ubuntu-qt-template-precise.list.save
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/canonical-qt5-edgers-qt5-beta1-quantal.list
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/canonical-qt5-edgers-qt5-beta1-quantal.list.save
[14:36] <brunogirin> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/canonical-qt5-edgers-qt5-proper-quantal.list
[14:36] <brunogirin> I suspect the beta1 shouldn't be there...
[14:36] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: Yes, it is good idea to remove the beta1 Qt5
[14:37] <brunogirin> shouldn't ppa-purge have done that? I will remove them anyway
[14:37] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  I noticed that ppa-purge is not always reliable
[14:37] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: I would purge the packages installed from that PPA
[14:38] <brunogirin> bzoltan: ok so the sources.list entries are now removed and I just did an apt-get update
[14:39] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: $ grep ^Package: /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*sdk*Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*qt5-beta1*Packages |awk '{print $2}'
[14:39] <bzoltan1> it will list the SDK packages you have
[14:39] <bzoltan1> they all should be purged
[14:40] <brunogirin> bzoltan: so I do apt-get purge on all of them?
[14:40] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: I prefer dpkg --purge
[14:41] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: no prob
[14:42] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: and then remove the /opt/qt5 stuff from your .bashrc
[14:42] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: it complains that ubuntu-sdk depends on some of them so will purge that too
[14:42] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: yes I updated .bashrc
[14:43] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: the ubuntu-sdk should not depend on packages from Qt5-beta1
[14:43] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  but it is safe to remove the ubuntu-sdk and later you can install it again
[14:44] <bzoltan1> it is a meta-package only
[14:44] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: that's what it says, which may be part of the problem; anyway I've now purged the whole thing
[14:44] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  yeps, clean system is always better
[14:45] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: so should I now just re-install ubuntu-sdk and notepad-qml?
[14:45] <brunogirin> or should I check that QtCreator can actually create a QML project first?
[14:46] <bzoltan1> So does the $ dpkg -l|grep "5release~beta" gives no packages?
[14:46] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: no, nothing returned anymore
[14:47] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: fabulous
[14:47] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: but QtCreator still can't create QtQuick projects, which I would have expected it to be able to without Ubuntu components
[14:47] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:let's see your qtc now... $ dpkg -l qtcreator
[14:48] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: ii  qtcreator      2.6.1-0ubunt amd64
[14:48] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  hmm...
[14:48] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: I can always purge that too and re-install
[14:49] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  Now comes a rhetorical question... do you want to do something what nobody outside of my team has ever done? :)
[14:49] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: why not? depends what it is :)
[14:49] <darthmuffins> #nowWereAllListening
[14:51] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: as long as there's a remote chance that it won't break my system as it's a production one and I have a client meeting in 1 hour :)
[14:51] <GuidoPallemans> are you talking about installing the ubuntu components with qt 5?
[14:52] <GuidoPallemans> 'cause i've got some problems with that too
[14:52] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: The new release of our QtCreator + plugins. It is nothing secret, it is in a public PPA. Try it at your own risk!!! No kidding.. it is heavily experimental: $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-staging && sudo apt-get update &&  sudo apt-get install qtcreator  ubuntu-qtcreator-plugins ubuntu-qtcreator-qt5libs
[14:53] <bzoltan1> GuidoPallemans:What exactly is the problem. The Ubuntu components are using Qt5
[14:54] <bzoltan1> brunogirin: You can always remove these packages and the qt5-staging PPA and return to any other version of the QtCreator
[14:54] <GuidoPallemans> bzoltan1: I cannot use the latest ubuntu.components, and the qtwebkit that I use doesn't work anymore either (but that is not really the question here)
[14:54] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: yes I could do that but if the upgrade from -beta1 to -proper failed, why would that one work? Having said that, you gave me an idea because there are a few of those packages that I didn't purge
[14:56] <bzoltan1> GuidoPallemans:  What release of the Ubuntu you are on? What PPAs do you use?
[14:56] <GuidoPallemans> ubuntu 12.10
[14:57] <GuidoPallemans> ppa's: i'm not sure about it, I installed the ones which were released with the ubuntu phone release, and then I removed them, installed the new ones - I think... and Qt5
[14:58] <bzoltan1> GuidoPallemans:  http://askubuntu.com/questions/254800/how-can-i-update-the-ubuntu-sdk-preview-from-the-qt-5-beta-ppa-to-the-qt-5-relea/
[15:01] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: still no luck; however, when I start it from the command line, I get this:
[15:01] <brunogirin> void DBusMenuExporterPrivate::addAction(QAction*, int): Already tracking action "Follow Symbol Under Cursor" under id 133
[15:01] <brunogirin> Cannot update Qt version information: /usr/bin/qmake-qt4 cannot be run.
[15:02] <brunogirin> bzoltan: which makes sense as I only have qmake in /usr/bin and it's the Qt5 one
[15:02] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:apt-get install qt5-default
[15:03] <GuidoPallemans> bzoltan1: that worked, thanks for linking me
[15:04] <bzoltan1> GuidoPallemans: No problem... it is my fault that I did not provide proper upgrade path at the first place
[15:04] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: qt5-default is already the newest version
[15:04] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: but I'll see if I can fix that in the QtCreator build&run options
[15:06] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: aha! that worked! I just deleted the old qt4 version in Build & Run > Qt Versions and added the Qt5 one manually
[15:09] <brunogirin> bzoltan1: thanks for the help, I'll write that up and put it up on AskUbuntu for reference
[15:10] <bzoltan1> brunogirin:  Nice :)
[15:12] <Andy80> hi
[15:13] <bzoltan1> Hello Andy80
[15:13] <Andy80> bzoltan1, I think I've eliminated all the old Qt5 packages. Now I'd like to install the new Qt5 packages. Which meta package do I have to install to do it properly?
[15:14] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  install ubuntu-sdk from the qt5-proper
[15:15] <Andy80> bzoltan1, thanks :) I've executed the command. In the mean time I go to grab some coffee ;)
[15:17] <lantizia> OK so my Nexus 4 has arrived this morning, fresh and brand new from Google... do I have to do anything before or on the day of the 21st to get a hold of the Ubuntu Phone beta?
[15:18] <Andy80> finally!
[15:18] <Andy80> andrea@andrea-Inspiron-660:~$ qmake -v
[15:18] <Andy80> QMake version 3.0
[15:18] <Andy80> Using Qt version 5.0.1 in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
[15:18] <Andy80> :)
[15:42] <Andy80> bzoltan1, I'm probably missing some deps, because I can't compile qtcreator. I get this error: http://pastebin.com/yMrEQww3 - I'm using latest sources from git of qt-creator
[15:44] <Andy80> but... wait... maybe I should compile qt-creator with Qt4 and not with Qt5?
[15:56] <bzoltan> Andy: we do compile the qtc with qt 5.0.1
[15:56] <nOStahl> 3 min left on timer at ubuntu.com ! woo
[15:58] <bzoltan>  libbotan1.10-dev libqt5sql5-sqlite (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5designercomponents5 (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5designer5 (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5clucene5 (>= 5.0.1~) qttools5-private-dev (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5v8-5-private-dev (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5help5 (>=5.0.1~) qttools5-dev (>= 5.0.1~) qttools5-dev-tools (>= 5.0.1~) qt5-qmake (>= 5.0.1~) qtbase5-private-dev (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5script5 (>= 5.0.1~) libqt5scripttools5 (>= 5.0.1~) qt5-default qtscript5-private-dev (>= 5.0.1
[15:58] <bzoltan> Andy80:  and this ^ is the deps list
[16:01] <Andy80> bzoltan, thanks :) I'll first watch the announcement, then I will install them ;)
[16:02] <lcabreza> does anybody has the iso source for the ubuntu-phone ?
[16:02] <bzoltan> Andy80: enjoy the show!
[16:04] <doomlord> wow, ubuntu-phone is coming to nexus4 ?
[16:05] <doomlord> but when docked - will the res be 1280x800 or 1920x1080
[16:05] <doomlord> another q - however fiddly it may be,will you be able to view the full desktop on the phone (you may have a stylus :) )
[16:05] <Andy80> bzoltan, very nice stuff :)
[16:06] <bzoltan> Andy80: Hell it is :) I love it
[16:09] <darthmuffins> very exciting stuff. we'll have to get the mobile OS installed as a VM so we can start developing as soon as its released
[16:10] <Andy80> anyway....
[16:10] <Andy80> show us also the power of Ubuntu server, EC2 and load balancer and please don't slow down everything on every announcement :)
[16:14] <wastrel> ubuntu tablet is a thing?
[16:14] <wastrel> fancy
[16:15] <wastrel> darthmuffins: is there a howto for getting vm mobile os
[16:15] <_methods> ubuntu-tv too lol
[16:15] <_methods> everyone wants to be on tv
[16:15] <wastrel> my father in law gave us an apple tv for xmas
[16:15] <wastrel> i have no idea what to do with the thing
[16:15] <wastrel> it's just sitting there using electricity doing nothing for the past 2 months
[16:20] <darthmuffins> haha despite being an avid ubuntu user.. i love my apple TV
[16:20] <darthmuffins> wastrel: no howto that i know of. I'll figure it out and make one once the source is released
[16:29] <Andy80> bzoltan, I've installed all the libs you told me (I was missing a couple of them infact) but I keep getting the same error ans before: Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: declarative
[16:44] <H4NgM4N> how to develop apps using 10.10
[16:44] <H4NgM4N> is it possible
[16:56] <ajalkane> Is there examples already out there what's the best way to create qml plugins for use with Ubuntu SDK?
[16:56] <ajalkane> (ie. C++ plugins for QML)
[17:03] <comjf> ajalkane: I've found the documentation to be wrong
[17:03] <comjf> ajalkane: at least I cant get it to compile haha
[17:03] <comjf> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qtqml-cppintegration-interactqmlfromcpp.html
[17:03] <comjf> but I think this resource is better: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtdoc/gettingstartedqml.html#extending-qml-using-qt-c
[17:04] <comjf> my only advice (admittedly I am a newb though) is to learn how to use qtcreator... it uses qmake which makes life easier
[17:10] <ajalkane> comjf: ok... I do know how to call C++ from QML, I'm just wondering what's the best practice on Ubuntu SDK, and if there's already examples
[17:12] <darthmuffins> ajalkane: check out the source for ubuntu-qtcreator-plugins
[17:12] <darthmuffins> they demonstrate precisely how to do it (generally following examples available at the qt-project site)
[17:13] <darthmuffins> and I'm guessing we should take their implementation as "best-practice" in most cases, as they know the Ubuntu OS better than the rest of us
[17:13] <darthmuffins> link:
[17:13] <darthmuffins> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-qtcreator-plugins/trunk
[17:14] <comjf> ajalkane: Can you answer this question then? I'm a beginner, but eager to get started: qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/24953/
[17:17] <ajalkane> comjf: You want to catch signals emitted from C++ object in your QML code?
[17:25] <comjf> ajalkane: yes
[17:26] <comjf> the tutorials I've so far followed don't work because of type issues I guess
[17:31] <ajalkane> comjf: you should register the C++ object with ctxt->setContextProperty to QML, and then in QML connect the signal using Connections {}
[17:32] <ajalkane> That's the easiest way. Another is to make the C++ a proper QML element, ie. writing a QML plugin
[17:32] <ajalkane> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qqmlcontext.html
[17:39] <comjf> ajalkane: then I can call methods based on button clicks and things
[17:42] <ajalkane> comjf: if you want to call methods on C++, you put Q_INVOKABLE before the method signature
[17:44] <ajalkane> so if you have setContextProperty("myBackend", &cppBackendObject), then in qml you can call "myBackendObject.myMethod("Here you go")" assuming you have Q_INVOKABLE void myMethod(const &QString &text)
[17:44] <ajalkane> s/myBackendObject/myBackend
[17:49] <comjf> ajalkane: ajalkane makes sense ok
[18:09] <doomlord> can the galaxy nexus/n4 output 1080p  when docked for the ubuntu-phone desktop?
[18:11] <bobweaver> ping bzoltan1  Hey I have ran into a Huge bug
[18:12] <bzoltan1>  bobweaver:  tell me
[18:13] <bobweaver> ok when swiping to get from tab to tab if one goes from say tab 1 to tab 3 that is cool or 1 too 2 is cool or 1 to 3 is cool. But say 3 too one crash app
[18:13] <bobweaver> I have a video of this if you would like to see
[18:13] <bobweaver> also if swiping is only "half way"  App crashs
[18:13] <bobweaver> let me get you video
[18:15] <bobweaver> bzoltan1,  time = 1:00     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yIGMRGHPE&list=UUzkAk08QdVFd1CmwWQBD3Sw&index=2
[18:15] <bobweaver> that is half swipe crash
[18:17] <bobweaver> I will make video of crash on tab 3 to tab 1
[18:17] <bzoltan1> bobweaver:  please try to reproduce the bug on the Qt5 what is provided from the qt5-proper PPA (https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper) As I told you on several occasion we can not and will not support custom built Qt5.
[18:18] <bobweaver> haha I knew you where going to say that so I installed stock !
[18:18] <bobweaver> happens on all versions of QT
[18:19] <ogra_> damned
[18:19]  * ogra_ now has "good morning america" humming in his head
[18:19] <bobweaver> lol
[18:19] <ogra_> bobweaver, cool app
[18:19] <bobweaver> its a great song ogra_
[18:19] <ogra_> definitely
[18:20] <bobweaver> ogra_,  here is the app this morning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PSb4szE7pw
[18:20] <bobweaver> with the same song
[18:20]  * bobweaver rolls of chair
[18:22]  * bobweaver just woke up any one know the branch that has tablet code ?
[18:22]  * bobweaver cracks fingers and say time to plug in TV
[18:22] <ogra_> i dont think the code is released yet
[18:23] <ogra_> thuuursday ....
[18:23] <bobweaver> :(
[18:23] <bobweaver> that is ok gives me more time :)
[18:24] <bobweaver> bzoltan1,  do you know the order of core apps that need to be done for phone ?
[18:25] <bzoltan1> bobweaver: In that case plase reproduce the bug with the official Qt5 release, make a very small example app, write the steps how to reproduce the bug and file it to  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit
[18:25] <bobweaver> Like if I should make email client before say Clock
[18:25] <bzoltan1> bobweaver: no, you need to ask KevinWright and/or mhall119 for that
[18:26] <bobweaver> thanks bzoltan1
[18:26] <bzoltan1>  bobweaver:  no problem
[18:27] <mhall119> bobweaver: there is no order of preference
[18:28] <bobweaver>  mhall119  whch one should I make next ?
[18:29] <bobweaver> also mhall119  or bzoltan1  where to get background templeate for caonical purple so I can make app look like stock ?
[18:29] <bobweaver> Like on the Phone where it says Home or Music that is just a tab system I am guessing that is using a different theme
[18:31] <mhall119> bobweaver: apps shouldn't use a purple background
[18:31] <bobweaver> IE make the templeate color something that is different then #C7C7C7 and use a different header
[18:31] <mhall119> bobweaver: those are Dash screens you say in the demo
[18:31] <mhall119> s/say/saw/
[18:31] <bobweaver> correct
[18:31] <mhall119> the core apps we want to use the provided template and theme
[18:32] <bobweaver> wait till thrusday ?
[18:32] <mhall119> you shouldn't need to
[18:32] <mhall119> everything you need for the core apps should be available already
[18:32] <bobweaver> mhall119,  what if I want to put this in the TV ?
[18:32] <bobweaver> I want to make TV interface more like Phone and tablet
[18:32] <bobweaver> wait till thur ?
[18:33] <ajalkane> mhall119: what about examples of best practice of C++ qml-plugins?
[18:33] <bobweaver> all the apps that I make are going to also fit in the dash of the TV
[18:33] <mhall119> bobweaver: TV apps should use the same template as we have for these core apps
[18:33] <mhall119> TV's dash should match desktop/phone as much as reasonable
[18:33] <ajalkane> It's still a bit unclear to me how we're supposed to do C++ QML plugins... another repository that is supposed to be compiled when developing the main application?
[18:33] <mhall119> and yeah, for that you'd need to wait until Thursday
[18:34] <ajalkane> And where should that main plugin live? What repository?
[18:34] <mhall119> ajalkane: bzoltan1's team are working on that
[18:34] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I dont listen to designers I dont get paid by you know that :)
[18:34] <mhall119> ajalkane: depends on the plugin, if it's generic enough please submit it to the SDK itself
[18:34] <ajalkane> So everything needed for the core apps is not available already :). Any rough estimate on timetable?
[18:35] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I agree with you on the Phone and TV and table will all look and act the same way though
[18:35] <mhall119> bobweaver: I understand, but for things we're going to include by default we're going ot want them to follow the designs
[18:35] <ajalkane> Personally it is filesystem managing plugin that I'm interested in. Although I'd think it's best to keep it "project local" until it stabilizes.
[18:35] <mhall119> ajalkane: no, but when you identify missing plugins please let the SDK team know
[18:35] <bobweaver> mhall119,  cool please try to understand that I am not doing this for the Phone but more for the tv
[18:36] <bobweaver> all apps should works across the board as there just qt
[18:36] <mhall119> bobweaver: understood :)
[18:36] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  what plugin ?
[18:36] <ajalkane> bobweaver: basically navigating the filesystem, and doing common filesystem operations that you'd expect from a filemanager.
[18:37] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  you are useing folderlistmodel ?
[18:37] <ajalkane> bobweaver: it's insufficient
[18:37] <bobweaver> so you are making your own ?
[18:37] <mhall119> ajalkane: you should probably make that app-specific for now, as the file manager will need more access permissions than a normal app
[18:37] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  you can tell your app to include what ever the heck you want it too
[18:37] <ajalkane> Have to make our own or if possible extend and collaborate with NemoMobile's
[18:38] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  example I make a C++ plugin I then EXpose it to QML
[18:38] <bobweaver> in a plugin file
[18:38] <bobweaver> these are not that hard to make
[18:38] <mhall119> ajalkane: just be aware that your submissions are under the contributor license agreement, if you include any 3rd party code you'll need them to agree to the CLA as well or request an exception
[18:39] <bobweaver> mhall119,  at what point is it 3rd party  ?
[18:39] <ajalkane> mhall119: I'm just unclear what's the proper way to do that... is it okay to include it in the filemanager repository, or if we need to create another repository for the qml plugin (some instructions hinted at that)
[18:39] <bobweaver> the whoe sdk is 3rd party tbh
[18:39] <mhall119> bobweaver: if he takes code from another project
[18:39] <ajalkane> mhall119: I know about that, and that's one of the things that I'm waiting an answer for
[18:39] <mhall119> ajalkane: I'd say create a separate branch, but under the same Launchpad project
[18:39] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  I think tht you are going about this a little bit different hear me out here
[18:40] <ajalkane> mhall119: ok, I think that's good enough for me to continue. Thanks
[18:40] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  say I have a file called     filemanager.cpp and also a file called filemanager.h  I can take that code and expose it to qml in the app itsself
[18:41] <bobweaver> #include "filemanager.h"
[18:41] <ajalkane> Bob, you don't have to teach me basic C :-). What is the basic point you want to tell relating to QML and C++ plugins?
[18:42] <bobweaver>     qmlRegisterType<FileManager >(uri, 0, 1, "FileManager");
[18:42] <bobweaver> that right there exposes my flippin filemanager.h to QML so that I can call  in my  QML      FileManager{id:foo;dir:some/path }
[18:43] <ajalkane> Ubuntu development model prefers QML plugins instead of qmlRegisterType kind of solutions. There's discussion about that in mailing list
[18:43] <bobweaver> facepalm
[18:44] <ajalkane> Didn't think he'd take it that hard...
[18:51] <bef0rd> ajalkane: what mailing list?
[18:53] <frankencode> ajalkane: i guess if you use a separate branch it won't break packaging of the core apps, at least until now i can't see any provisions to package plugins with each app
[18:53] <ajalkane> bef0rd: Ubuntu-phone mailing list
[18:57] <frankencode> i done my own folderlistmodels before, would like to see smth. like this go into the core sdk (because then I can use it, too;)
[18:58] <ajalkane> frankencode: your folderlistmodel supports reporting of errors and threaded operations?
[18:58] <frankencode> its licensed to death (contract work)
[18:58] <ajalkane> ah...
[18:58] <Darkwing> I couldn't find any information on this... What radios are going to be included and how are the radios setup?
[18:59] <frankencode> ajalkane: but if you create one, i surely will have a look at it
[19:00] <frankencode> the way qt is doing multithreading is a special case of how golang is doing it
[19:00] <bzoltan1> ajalkane: I am about to close this day... would you mind to ping me tomorrow and talk about those plugins?
[19:00] <frankencode> the message queues are basically golang channels
[19:00] <ajalkane> bzoltan1: sure thing, I'll be here tomorrow and ask about them
[19:01] <ajalkane> frankencode: we will need one for Filemanager. Whether we use an existing (of course preferable) or create our own remains to be seen.
[19:01] <KevinWright> Hello RSS feed reader app people. I have a bad network connection and might not be able to meet properly as hoped right now
[19:02] <frankencode> ajalkane: yes, lets see what will be released with the phone image
[19:02] <mhall119> KevinWright: is it meeting time now?
[19:04] <mhall119> is who is here for the RSS Reader meeting?
[19:08] <QtRoS> Hi all! RSS Reader team here?
[19:13] <mhall119> I'll run the meeting if there are people here for it
[19:14] <mhall119> QtRoS: are you working on the RSS reader?
[19:14] <QtRoS> mhall119: yes, and you?
[19:15] <mhall119> nope, but I'm helping Kevin
[19:15] <QtRoS> mhall119: Ok, I think I am alone today
[19:16] <mhall119> ok, we'll make the most of it then
[19:16] <mhall119> #startmeeting
[19:16] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 19 19:16:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:16] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:16] <mhall119> #topic RSS Reader updates
[19:17] <mhall119> QtRoS: can you give an update about what was discussed in the last meeting?
[19:18] <mhall119> #meetingtopic RSS Reader development
[19:19] <mhall119> QtRoS: were you there for the last meeting?
[19:19] <QtRoS> mhall119: subject of first meeting were general development plan, targets, teamwork and so on.
[19:19] <mhall119> ok, were there any work items discussed then?
[19:21] <QtRoS> mhall119: sorry for slow answers, sometimes I need to correct my English speech with translator
[19:21] <QtRoS> No
[19:21] <mhall119> ok, no worries
[19:21] <mhall119> ok, so the wiki spec for the RSS Reader is here:
[19:21] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/RSSReader
[19:22] <mhall119> there is also a blueprint for the initial development of this app, where we are listing work items:
[19:22] <mhall119> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rssreader-app/+spec/initial-rssreader-development
[19:23] <mhall119> we have 13 work items and 6 members of the development team
[19:23] <mhall119> so we need to give everybody a couple of things to work on
[19:24] <QtRoS> In mailing list I already talked about my question - shall we use C++ or not?
[19:24] <mhall119> QtRoS: you should be able to edit that blueprint's work items (little yellow edit icon on the right side of the "Work Items" header)
[19:24] <mhall119> QtRoS: the goal is to do as much as possible in QML+Javascript
[19:25] <mhall119> it makes it more accessible to new developers, and highlights what we consider the strong parts of our developer offering
[19:25] <mhall119> if, however, there is something that we can't do in QML, we can write it in C++ and expose it to QML by making a plugin
[19:25] <QtRoS> Yes, sure, I can do any of this items, but we need to decide with team, how we will realize some of them
[19:25] <mhall119> in those cases, the plugin code should be in a separate bzr branch, and be as re-usable as possible
[19:27] <mhall119> #topic work items and implementation
[19:27] <mhall119> should have done that several minutes ago
[19:27] <mhall119> QtRoS: does that answer your question about C++ vs. QML/
[19:27] <mhall119> ?
[19:27] <QtRoS> Yes, plugin is right way, because we can't view list of all news from few sources via QML, XmlListModel able to load only one
[19:28] <QtRoS> Yes, I think we need to create that branch for C++ part
[19:28] <QtRoS> as fast as possible
[19:28] <mhall119> QtRoS: you and anybody else on the team should be able to edit these work items
[19:28] <mhall119> so the goal for this week is to get them all assigned to somebody
[19:28] <QtRoS> I can edit work items, I think)
[19:29] <QtRoS> W8, I'll check them again and pick something
[19:29] <mhall119> this doesn't mean the assigned person is going to have to implement them, just that they'll need to investigate and either implement it, change the work item, or hand it off to somebody else
[19:29] <mhall119> it sounds like the work items themselves will need to be changed some too, since some work will be done in the plugin and some will be done in QML
[19:30] <QtRoS> Yes, you are right
[19:30] <mhall119> QtRoS: can I give you an action item to email the team and ask everybody to assign themselves to 2 or 3 of the current work items?
[19:30] <mhall119> I'd like to have them all assigned to somebody
[19:30] <mhall119> since you showed up for the meeting, you get first pick :)
[19:31] <QtRoS> Okay, I can use mailing list for this purpose...
[19:31] <mhall119> yes
[19:31] <QtRoS> Oh, ok =)
[19:31] <mhall119> #action QtRoS to email dev team asking everybody to self-assign work items
[19:31] <meetingology> ACTION: QtRoS to email dev team asking everybody to self-assign work items
[19:31] <mhall119> thanks QtRoS
[19:32] <mhall119> QtRoS: was there anything the team was waiting on Kevin to provide?
[19:32] <QtRoS> Nope, we can start now, I think :)
[19:33] <mhall119> excellent, can you include that encouragement in your email to the team?
[19:33] <mhall119> in the next meeting we can go over changes to the work items that the team makes
[19:34] <QtRoS> Repeat please, how I can peek one? Just replace TODO with my id?
[19:34] <mhall119> put your launchpad username in square brackets at the start of the line
[19:34] <mhall119> so for me it would look like this:
[19:34] <mhall119> [mhall119] Do this work item: TODO
[19:35] <mhall119> make sense?
[19:35] <QtRoS> Ok, I'll try to lead our team first time :)
[19:35] <mhall119> QtRoS: feel free to ping me or email me if you need help
[19:36] <QtRoS> Check list, I picked two :)
[19:36] <mhall119> I'll follow up with Kevin when he's online again about what happened in this meeting
[19:36] <mhall119> QtRoS: \o/
[19:36] <mhall119> #action mhall119 to update Kevin about this meeting
[19:36] <meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 to update Kevin about this meeting
[19:36] <QtRoS> And no need for C++ part to realize them, so I can work independently at the beginning
[19:37] <mhall119> fantastic, is there anything else that you can think of that we need to discuss?
[19:38] <QtRoS> Nope, I will write to another guys now in mailing list!
[19:38] <mhall119> alright, thanks for attending this meeting QtRoS
[19:39] <mhall119> do you know if Kevin has a schedule already for the next meeting time?
[19:41] <QtRoS> No, in last message from Kevin he wrote "Chat with you soon" only)
[19:41] <mhall119> ok, I'll leave it to him to schedule the next one then
[19:41] <QtRoS> And sorry for my mistakes in English, read is much easier for me rather than write
[19:41] <QtRoS> Ok!
[19:41] <mhall119> thanks again QtRoS
[19:41] <QtRoS> It's good!
[19:41] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[19:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 19 19:41:49 2013 UTC.
[19:41] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-phone/2013/ubuntu-phone.2013-02-19-19.16.moin.txt
[19:41] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-phone/2013/ubuntu-phone.2013-02-19-19.16.html
[19:41] <QtRoS> you too!
[19:43] <wastrel> yay
[19:44] <ajalkane> SDK question: How to detect that you're building for Ubuntu in: *.pro files, .cpp/.h files? Ie. is there some defines that are set?
[19:47] <daliusd> Hi,
[19:47] <daliusd> I use Scrollbar and get following warning/error: file:///usr/share/themes/Ambiance/qmltheme/ScrollbarDelegate.qml:137: TypeError: Cannot read property 'easing' of undefined
[19:47] <daliusd> scrollbar itself works
[19:48] <daliusd> I don't get this error with examples
[19:48] <daliusd> any ideas what I'm missing?
[20:01] <Pip> So any ideas how to install ubuntu mobile OS on a real hardware?
[20:04] <daliusd> Pip, you will need to wait
[20:05] <daliusd> official date is 21st if I remember correctly
[20:05] <Pip> I know
[20:05] <wastrel> ubuntu is on phone now
[20:05] <wastrel> Pip: do you have galaxy nexus or nexus 4?
[20:05] <Pip> galaxy nexus
[20:07] <larsgk> hi
[20:07] <larsgk> any RSS feed app people here_
[20:07] <larsgk> ?
[20:09] <wastrel> larsgk: you missed the meeting friend
[20:09] <wastrel> larsgk: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-phone/2013/ubuntu-phone.2013-02-19-19.16.moin.txt
[20:10] <larsgk> oops
[20:11] <larsgk> gonna check assignments
[20:12] <larsgk> wastrel: I'll take 2
[20:13] <wastrel> i'm not inovlved just a bystander :]
[20:15] <larsgk> ;)
[20:31] <ajalkane> Opening an Ubuntu QML project in QtCreator gives error in QML in line "import Ubuntu.Components 0.1": "QML module not found". I guess this is a FAQ kind of item how to solve it?
[20:35] <frankencode>  ajalkane: i think you have to set your QML_IMPORT_PATH
[20:35] <frankencode> but i'm not a qt creator user, just know that it is justed to locate qml plugins
[20:36] <frankencode> -justed +used, damn i'm dizzy today
[20:36] <ajalkane> frankencode: ok thanks... well, I'll not put more time into that since the code anyway works from command-line. I guess some wart in the SDK or instructions
[20:39] <Walther> Okay, so ubuntu tablet project got announced. Is there an irc channel for that, or does the discussion happen here?
[20:39] <netcurli> #ubuntu-tablet
[20:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ^
[20:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h384z7Ph0gU < incase you didnt see Walther
[20:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the video confused my somewhat
[20:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is the tablet not active until you get your phone docked on it?
[20:41] <bkc_> Akiva-Thinkpad: it is
[20:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> okay, but you can take your phone, and do what with it?
[20:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> do you have to juggle the two?
[20:42] <wastrel> never enough channels
[20:42] <bkc_> I'm guessing syncing them through either wlan or bluetooth :)
[20:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is the phone in your pocket connected via bluetooth
[20:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ah
[20:43] <bkc_> I'm only guessing though...
[20:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Regardless, I think all of this really is the trump card for cloud computing
[20:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the best cloud is the one in your pocket.
[20:43] <bkc_> ... I can think of so many ways of mis-interpreting that sentence ;P
[20:44] <doomlord> you mean P2P cloud as opposed to cloud of locked down servers controlled by someone else ?
[20:45] <bkc_> rsync <3
[21:35] <zyal> Hello
[21:35] <zyal> can anyone help me oout here?
[21:36] <zyal> anyone?
[21:36] <Pip> zyal, shoot
[21:36] <zyal> Hey, Im trying to install the ubuntu-sdk but stuck in the qtchooser package
[21:37] <zyal> hold on let me paste the error
[21:37] <zyal> Unpacking qtchooser (from .../qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb) ...
[21:37] <zyal> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb (--unpack):
[21:37] <zyal>  trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/xmlpatterns', which is also in package qt4-dev-tools 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.4
[21:37] <zyal> No apport report written because MaxReports is reached already
[21:37] <zyal>                                                               Processing triggers for man-db ...
[21:37] <zyal> Errors were encountered while processing:
[21:37] <zyal>  /var/cache/apt/archives/qtchooser_0.0.1~git20121229.g8f08405-0ubuntu1~precise1~test5_i386.deb
[21:37] <zyal> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[21:38] <zyal> i ran sudo apt-get -f install to fix but thats what i got
[21:39] <zyal> Running sudo dpkg --configure -a
[21:39] <zyal> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of qt5-default:
[21:39] <zyal>  qt5-default depends on qtchooser; however:
[21:40] <zyal>   Package qtchooser is not installed.
[21:40] <zyal> dpkg: error processing qt5-default (--configure):
[21:40] <zyal>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[21:40] <zyal> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of ubuntu-sdk:
[21:40] <zyal>  ubuntu-sdk depends on qt5-default; however:
[21:40] <zyal>   Package qt5-default is not configured yet.
[21:40] <zyal> dpkg: error processing ubuntu-sdk (--configure):
[21:40] <zyal>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[21:40] <zyal> Errors were encountered while processing:
[21:40] <zyal>  qt5-default
[21:40] <zyal>  ubuntu-sdk
[21:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> pastebin much zyal?
[21:42] <zyal> Haha
[21:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I'm giving you a hard time
[21:42] <zyal> Okay ill paste it there :P for posterity's sake
[21:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> as far as I am concerned, an unactive channel is fine for terminal dumping.
[21:42] <zyal> Ah alright
[21:43] <zyal> any ideas on the package problem?
[21:43] <Pip> It's out of my capability. I'm new here to ask some questions about how to install ubuntu mobile OS on my Android phone
[21:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: SDK, do you mean qtcreator and the like?
[21:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ie, qt5 libs?
[21:43] <zyal> yeah
[21:44] <zyal> its trying to install qt5 but is stuck in qtchoose package
[21:44] <zyal> qtchooser
[21:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> sec; I installed them a few times
[21:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> hmmm
[21:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> what distro you running?
[21:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> sorry, basic questions first :P
[21:44] <zyal> Lubuntu 12.04
[21:45] <zyal> We gotta start somwhere haha
[21:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> 12.04 might be your problem
[21:45] <zyal> Hm..
[21:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> a Prerequisite is 12.10
[21:45] <zyal> Shiiizz
[21:45] <zyal> Is it really?
[21:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> sec, let me affirm that
[21:46] <wastrel> in the tutorial it says 12.10 but i believe there's a ppa for 12.04 somewhere
[21:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Requirements
[21:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad>     Ubuntu 12.10 – get Ubuntu ›
[21:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad>     Qt 5 and the Ubuntu QML toolkit – get Qt5 and the Ubuntu toolkit ›
[21:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad>     Code editor (Qt Creator recommended) – install Qt Creator ›
[21:48] <zyal> Ah okay
[21:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: thats found here http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/mobile/currency-converter-phone-app/
[21:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: like wastrel said though, it kind of bewilders me that this is what could be holding you back
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> but it is a likely candidate for why you are in dependency hell.
[21:49] <zyal> who's wastrel?
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ....
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/mobile/currency-converter-phone-app/
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> oops
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bloody copy c
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel 01:46:25 PM
[21:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> in the tutorial it says 12.10 but i believe there's a ppa for 12.04 somewhere
[21:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> for some reason, ctrl c does not work wit empathy.
[21:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Why am I using empathy as an irc client? Because I am crazy.
[21:50] <zyal> Lol Im using wee chat I have to middle click with a track pad -.-
[21:50] <zyal> to paste
[21:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ha
[21:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: what machine prompted you to lubuntu?
[21:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> (BTW, got a ssd, and holy hell this thing boots up fast - x60t by IBM)
[21:51] <zyal> I have an HP craptop 1.73ghz 1 gig ram
[21:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ha, the silver one?
[21:52] <zyal> yes p.p
[21:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Amd turion?
[21:52] <zyal> mm stock
[21:52] <zyal> dont know exactly
[21:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ohhh, I got one of those
[21:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I used to sell em :P
[21:52] <zyal> t5300
[21:52] <bobweaver> anyone know where to get the welcome screen code ?  I want to make it into a loading screen for app. Thanks
[21:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> former hp manufacturer's rep
[21:52] <zyal> uhh they are sluggish
[21:53] <zyal> but DWM as my wm helps a ton
[21:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: For what its worth, I bought a x60 tablet a month ago for 120 bucks off craigslist. It runs like a charm.
[21:53] <zyal> yeah?
[21:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> maybe its time to upgrade, if you can afford 120
[21:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah
[21:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> craigslist, with a bit of practice
[21:54] <zyal> Right now im looking for a thinkpad t40 on kijiji/cl
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is the place to make sellers cry.
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> how much?
[21:54] <zyal> less than 150 prefferably
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> t40, mmm you can do better.
[21:54] <zyal> wha do you recommend?
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> with 140, I think you could get an x60; they got great battery
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and they are core 2 duo
[21:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Where do you live?
[21:55] <zyal> ON, Canada
[21:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah, you should be fine then. Im in van
[21:55] <zyal> x60 is a hybrid?
[21:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> for lenovo x series
[21:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> theres the x, and then theres the x tablet
[21:55] <zyal> oh okay
[21:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> xtablet is always a bit heavier, and a bit worse on the battery
[21:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> but you get the tablet functionality
[21:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Tablet on unity, is nice btw
[21:56] <zyal> yeah
[21:56] <zyal> actually the ubuntu tablet thing got me interested in the sdk...
[21:57] <zyal> theyre actually pushing for it this year
[21:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I got a 300 dollar bike on craigslist for 60, and I got this laptop which is usually 220, for 120.
[21:57] <wastrel> i like laptops
[21:57] <zyal> lol sniping deals man
[21:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> The method is simple
[21:57] <zyal> ooh theres wastrel..
[21:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> On craigslist, (Good if you have the phone app),
[21:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> just search for Thinkpad
[21:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> (apples never sell cheap, and everything else is... well mostly rubbish)
[21:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and for every deal you find out there, offer 1/4th of the price
[21:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and email everyone
[21:59] <zyal> My only concern is the battery
[21:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> In both cases, the person ran out of time that they needed to get rid of it, and took my offer
[21:59] <zyal> usually they are worn out
[21:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: Battery, is amazing on thinkpads, like
[21:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the x200 got almost a 20 hour active battery life
[21:59] <zyal> wow
[21:59] <zyal> with linux?
[21:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mine gets a good 4 hours, and its not new
[21:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
[22:00] <Akiva-Thinkpad> well good question, but those kernel problems have been solved
[22:00] <zyal> lool i guess with laptop-mode-tools yourea okay
[22:00] <wastrel> lenovo ♥
[22:00] <zyal> yeah its great what is it kernel 3.2+?
[22:00] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel: Exactly. Only worth while non apple hardware.
[22:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: Anyways, start looking now on craigslist, this is my advice. Be warned, some people are a-holes and don't like the fact that you offered only a 4th or a 5th of what they wanted to sell it for,
[22:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Subsequently, I have been sent on a few wild goose chases
[22:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> actually just one, but the guy was nuts
[22:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and I should have seen it coming
[22:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> he gave me a fake address, and no phone number
[22:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> woah, good prices
[22:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sys/3628998001.html
[22:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Hell, I'd buy that if I could
[22:04] <zyal> pardon me got d/ced
[22:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sys/3628998001.html
[22:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wow, good deal
[22:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thats the slim version, and that laptop is legendary
[22:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> it even made it into an xkcd comic
[22:05] <zyal> Looks good Ill consider it
[22:05] <zyal> Any 150$< Im auto buying (if its good)
[22:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: That, though, is amazing
[22:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> then again, first one on the list
[22:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I gather from this that toronto prices are much less than vancouver
[22:07] <zyal> Our minimum wage is lower I believe ;P
[22:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> zyal: Wow, actually, I really think you should buy that one right away
[22:08] <zyal> We're at 10.75 here.
[22:08] <zyal> Yeah?
[22:08] <zyal> Jeez tempting
[22:08] <zyal> its*
[22:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Like seriously, go to craigslist,
[22:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and type thinkpad
[22:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> they are selling broken older models for more expensive than that
[22:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and when I did my shopping a month ago, I could not find anything that good of a deal
[22:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> for the x200s, the SLIM model for gosh sakes
[22:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah
[22:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> 200 bucks is amazing
[22:09] <zyal> Okay Ill message the dude, gonna try for 180 first ;D
[22:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Mine is the 5 year model, and it was 140
[22:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> that one is 3 year model
[22:15] <wastrel> http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/sys/3566972755.html
[22:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel: Eww
[22:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> fattop
[22:26] <wastrel> i don't carry it around, i use it as a desktop replacment
[22:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel: Good processor actually
[22:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> well if its for desktop, mmmmm
[22:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the second gen i7 was good for battery
[22:28] <wastrel> screen resolution is fail for a 15" tho


[00:16] <Irihapeti> I'd like to apply for Ubuntu Member's cloak. My launchpad page is at https://launchpad.net/~irihapeti
[00:31] <Unit193> Irihapeti: Done!
[00:32] <Irihapeti> Many thanks, Unit193. Have a great day/evening (whatever it is where you are).
[05:05] <AaronFarias> Unit193, do we get some type of access to the bots?
[05:05] <AaronFarias> are they infobots?
[05:05] <AaronFarias> the ubots?
[05:07] <Unit193> What?  Why would you get access?
[05:23] <AaronFarias> I'm just asking...
[05:23] <AaronFarias> why are they park in a channel?
[07:20] <tjaalton> could I get an ubuntu cloak https://launchpad.net/~tjaalton
[07:22] <apw> Unit193, thanks, appreciated
[07:59] <Mekaneck> AaronFarias: because they are info bots and log bots
[08:01] <toddc> can I assume Lubotu1 will be covered by the ubuntu-bots-team?
[08:04] <Mekaneck> Lubotu1? Is that the Temegram bridge bot?
[08:04] <toddc> us team info bot
[08:04] <Mekaneck> temegram/Telegram
[08:05] <Mekaneck> ah
[08:05] <toddc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
[08:06] <Mekaneck> i guess they'll look into that in time
[08:06] <toddc> np no hurry just saw a the bot questions above
[08:41] <AaronFarias> so if I have my own infobot?
[08:41] <AaronFarias> why bring one where I cannot have access to?
[08:46] <AaronFarias> What I'm trying to say I know the code very close of supybot = Limnoria ;X
[08:46] <AaronFarias> I'm actually helping them directly...
[08:47] <AaronFarias> Mekaneck, read this URL https://pastebin.com/qRbqNsVW
[08:50] <AaronFarias> Aaron is me on @Freenode ;X
[10:17] <AaronFarias> I hope it doesn't happen like on freenode I had my channels #Kubuntu-es and #ubuntu-es and it was remove because someone was helping to code the IRC bots ;X
[14:52] <Unit193> tjaalton: Done!
[14:53] <tjaalton> thanks!
[14:53] <Unit193> You're welcome.
[16:14] <AaronFarias> Unit193, can you clear the messed of the BOTS
[16:14] <AaronFarias> I don't need them park at #ubuntu-es
[16:14] <AaronFarias> I have my own supybot which is Guy in my channel
[16:15] <AaronFarias> and don't need more
[16:17] <AaronFarias> specially bots without access..
[16:17] <AaronFarias> Don't need them park anywhere my channel.
[16:21] <ddeimeke> Anything I can do to push my application for an Ubuntu cloak forward? -  https://launchpad.net/~dirk.deimeke
[16:21] <AaronFarias> speak to the person directly.
[16:23] <niko> ddeimeke: all you need is to wait for a ubuntu group contact to pop up
[16:34] <AaronFarias> Before I ban Kick all the bots from #ubuntu-es
[16:34] <AaronFarias> can someone remove them?
[17:05] <ddeimeke> niko: Thank you!
[17:45] <m4v> *sigh*
[18:31] <dbasinge> How do I get my Ubuntu Member cloak activated?
[18:35] <niko> you must share your launchpad profile page, with information about your irc nick on libera.chat
[18:37] <dbasinge> https://launchpad.net/~mike.basinger
[18:38] <dbasinge> or send it elsewhere
[18:42] <niko> dbasinge: then be patient, a ubuntu group contact will pop up :)
[18:43] <dbasinge> niko: thanks, will just chill with a fine IPA
[18:52] <AaronFarias> dbasinge, speak to Unit193 he's the one in charge of the process.
[18:52] <AaronFarias> and it took me 3 days to get my cloak ;)
[18:54] <dbasinge> AaronFarias: will ping him/her/them next time he/she/they are are on
[18:55] <AaronFarias> dbasinge, remember thank you for your patience ;)
[18:55] <dbasinge> as long as the IPA holds
[18:55] <dbasinge> :)
[18:55] <AaronFarias> it will ;)
[18:56] <AaronFarias> good luck dbasinge <3
[18:59] <AaronFarias> and thank you for contributing to ubuntu dbasinge
[19:00] <dbasinge> AaronFarias: thanks everyone in the community
[21:25] <AaronFarias> no thank you for patiently waiting to get all this situation fix ;)


[18:09] <NotSure> ok, can anybody tell me why i can't get into ##java? it tells me that it needs to identify me? What does that mean?
[20:11] <sojourney> hi


[01:52] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:08] <marcoagpinto> Morning!
[06:35] <ducasse> good morning
[08:37] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you find the culprit on that 470 nvidia yesterday, we noticing a lot of bugs on both nvidia and 5.11 kernel lately in -announce
[08:38] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the one with missing outputs and EDID
 Hello! I am running 20.04.2 and am having a bit of difficulty with the nvidia drivers. I tried from both the software updater GUI and terminal to install/update the latest driver from nvidia (470) but am receiving "unmet dependencies" and "you have held broken packages" errors.
[08:39] <lotuspsychje> this one
[08:43] <lotuspsychje> added bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-340/+bug/1938978 to the discuss team too
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-470/+bug/1939673


[12:13] <coreycb> sil2100: hey! any chance you could take a look at neutron in the bionic unapproved queue? it has some critical bug fixes.
[13:16] <seb128> bdmurray, hey. Are those "[bionic/nautilus] Possible Regression" emails supposed to be sent daily? Also I think Trevinho responded to it, was it good enough or was there still concerns?
[14:00] <bdmurray> seb128: Hi! The emaisl are supposed to be sent whenever a new regression is found which could be daily. One of the emails I received talked about the crashes in general as a bunch rather than each one individually. As an example I'd prefer to know that crash 69d1bc is a memory error, while crash b9dfd02 will be fixed by the next SRU, etc....
[14:00] <seb128> Trevinho, ^
[14:01] <seb128> bdmurray, k, let's see if we can get what you need ... is there a place that shows all the report ids that are of a concern atm?
[14:01] <seb128> I deleted some of the emails, I though the content was the same
[14:01] <bdmurray> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
[14:01] <Trevinho> seb128: I've looked at all of them,
[14:02] <Trevinho> personally the only fix I'm concerned about is https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+git/nautilus/+ref/ubuntu/bionic-fix-file-remote-type-search-crash
[14:02] <Trevinho> and covered by that branch
[14:02] <seb128> Trevinho, can you take those ~20 ids and do a list of "id: <reason>" to help bdmurray?
[14:02] <bdmurray> Trevinho, seb128: or "id, id, id: <reason>" if there are some that are the same type
[14:03] <Trevinho> most of them are like: "I don't know", actually, a part from the one mentioned above which might cause some of them which I've marked as duplicated alaready
[14:03] <Trevinho> already*
[14:03] <seb128> Trevinho, I think we need a full summary in one email to help bdmurray to be confident if the update is fine or not
[14:03] <bdmurray> "I don't know" doesn't sound like the phasing should be increased, unless its an old crash.
[14:03] <Trevinho> as for the most of them I'm quite sure they happen as per other upstream changes and just changed the trace compared to what we had before, but nothing really concerning
[14:04] <seb128> Trevinho, well "I don't know" doesn't give confidence it's not a regression?
[14:04] <seb128> right
[14:04] <seb128> well if you write that it's fine
[14:04] <seb128> "not a new issue, different signature but the problem was already existing"
[14:05] <Trevinho> these unknowns, are more of them related to different trace I think, but most of them seems like memory errorrs unrelated to an actual change, but I can see if I can resume it
[14:07] <seb128> Trevinho, well, we just need a list and show that we looked at all the reports and are confident the SRU is still fine
[14:07] <seb128> seems you are confident
[14:07] <seb128> but your reply didn't convince bdmurray
[14:08] <Trevinho> seb128: yeah, but if we want to be better, would be nice to reupload to fix to #1795028
[14:08] <seb128> so please provide it in a format that he can review/understand enough to be fine with it as we are
[14:08] <seb128> Trevinho, ok, I can look at doing that ... do you think we should block the SRU until that one lands?
[14:08] <Trevinho> as I think there might be crashes related to memory issues that might be caused by that too...
[14:08] <seb128> ah
[14:08] <Trevinho> maybe it's better.
[14:08] <seb128> sounds like we do
[14:08] <seb128> k, let me put on my list to sponsor this week
[14:08] <seb128> bdmurray, ^ we are going to do a follow-up SRU with a fix and then we let you know the status :)
[14:09] <Trevinho> that branch is based on `XubuntuCancel` one though, so let me know if you want me to rebase it on top of ubuntu/bionic instead
[14:09] <rbasak> sil2100: I'm going to finish up SRU reviewing packagekit that I started yesterday now, if that doesn't clash with you?
[14:10] <Trevinho> seb128: ^
[14:10] <bdmurray> seb128: got it, let me know if you want the SRU reviewed.
[14:10] <seb128> Trevinho, yes please, let's not interlock those
[14:10] <seb128> bdmurray, will do, thx
[14:10] <Trevinho> ack
[14:40] <sil2100> rbasak: no problem, thanks for the heads-up
[14:48] <seb128> bdmurray, oh, other topic, I mentioned it at the sprint, but it would be nice to remove 15.04/15.10 from the error tracker legend ... is there a bug tracker/place for such requests?
[14:53] <bdmurray> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/
[14:53] <seb128> bdmurray, thx
[14:56] <seb128> bdmurray, https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1796107
[14:59] <bdmurray> seb128: got it, thanks
[15:12] <doko> oSoMoN, tdaitx: the libreoffice tests fail with OpenJDK 11. does it need just a rebuild?
[15:12] <doko> are these related at all?
[15:30] <oSoMoN> doko, not sure, I need to take a closer look at the error, but I'm stepping out now, can do later in the evening
[16:55] <rbasak> sil2100: did you manage to look at bug 1782031 please?
[16:55] <rbasak> From history:
[16:56] <rbasak> sil2100_: around? May I have a second SRU opinion on bug 1782031 please? Seems to me there may be a functional (surprising) change to users there if unknown/notchecked ends up going to fail.
[16:57] <rbasak> 13:53 <ubottu> bug 1782031 in openscap (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU][xenial] Enable SCE option and systemd probe in libopenscap8" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782031
[17:41] <tdaitx> oSoMoN: btw, hsqldb1.8.0 also breaks with openjdk-11 (System::runFinalizersOnExit() was removed) and libreoffice depends on it (it is the only dependency), do you know why? hsqldb 2.4 fixes this and we do have it in the archive, but it is not clear if it is a sane replacement for LO
[17:49] <sil2100> rbasak: looking at it now
[18:03] <ahasenack> infinity: hey, for when you are around, do you have squid's apparmor profile enabled by any chance?
[18:04] <infinity> ahasenack: How would I know?
[18:05] <ahasenack> infinity: aa-status on the box, or ps faxwZ and check if the squid process is listed as "confined"
[18:05] <ahasenack> infinity: I got logs from jibel that show apparmor denied messages right around the crash, so I'm thinking he did enable it
[18:06] <infinity>  ps faxwZ | grep squid | awk '{print $2}'
[18:06] <infinity> (enforce)
[18:06] <ahasenack> yep, enforce, sorry
[18:06] <ahasenack> so it's enabled
[18:06] <infinity> I didn't actively enable it.  Surely, it's a default thing?
[18:06] <ahasenack> I didn't think it was
[18:06] <ahasenack> I had to explicitly enable it in my test boxes/vms
[18:07] <ahasenack> something to investigate, but it gives a hint about this bug
[18:07] <infinity> I mean, this laptop install dates back to vivid, so I can never remember exactly what all I may have done to it, but I'm pretty sure my squid setup is just a side-effect of "apt-get install squid-deb-proxy" and editing the whitelists.
[18:07] <ahasenack> noted
[18:07] <ahasenack> now let's see what kind of DENIED messages you have related to squid
[18:07] <infinity> So, maybe the AA profile isn't enabled by default *anymore*, but it was in the past, and the maintainer scripts (correctly) don't change the current setup on upgrade?
[18:08] <ahasenack> lots of things
[18:08] <ahasenack> could have happened. I will check that, but now I want to see if I can correlate the profile with the crash
[18:08] <infinity> ahasenack: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PM8D6WdQD8/
[18:09] <sil2100> rbasak: hmmm, indeed an interesting case this is
[18:09] <infinity> ahasenack: And I woke up to apport telling me of a new crash.  Yay.
[18:10] <ahasenack> [95825.651047] audit: type=1400 audit(1537596453.254:301): apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" info="Failed name lookup - disconnected path" error=-13 profile="/usr/sbin/squid" name="run/dbus/system_bus_socket" pid=24740 comm="squid" requested_mask="wr" denied_mask="wr" fsuid=0 ouid=0
[18:10] <ahasenack> ok,
[18:10] <ahasenack> there are two messages
[18:10] <ahasenack> one about the net_admin capability
[18:10] <ahasenack> and the above
[18:10] <ahasenack> I've seen other fixes in apparmor profiles about this disconnected path issue
[18:10] <infinity> SIGABRT is comm_openex().  That's the same one we were looking at before, right?
[18:10] <ahasenack> yes, the result of the failed assert
[18:10] <infinity> That does smell of something an AA denial could cause.
[18:11] <ahasenack> let me get you a diff
[18:11] <ahasenack> for the profile
[18:11] <ahasenack> I'll also post it to the bug
[18:11] <infinity> Kay.
[18:12] <jdstrand_> ahasenack: make sure the profile uses attach_disconnected
[18:12] <ahasenack> jdstrand_: yeah, it's not using it
[18:12] <ahasenack> that will be my diff :)
[18:13] <ahasenack> I'm also wondering about the net_admin capability
[18:13] <ahasenack> but that has been in use since squid3 as far as I can tell
[18:13] <ahasenack> early squid3
[18:13] <jdstrand> * bind to any address for transparent proxying
[18:13] <jdstrand> from man capabilities
[18:14] <infinity> Yeah, squid seems like a solid net_admin consumer.
[18:14]  * jdstrand nods
[18:20] <sil2100> rbasak: let me think about it and leave a comment tomorrow, I think I have a split opinion about this SRU
[18:22] <ahasenack> infinity: apply this to /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.squid: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/R6Z84ZdsfP/
[18:22] <ahasenack> then issue sudo apparmor_parser -r -T -W /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.squid
[18:22] <ahasenack> jdstrand: looks ok? ^
[18:23] <rbasak> sil2100: thanks
[18:23] <rbasak> jmbl: ^
[18:24] <infinity> ahasenack: Applied.
[18:25] <ahasenack> infinity: does dmesg show a profile_replace going on for squid and squidguard?
[18:26] <infinity> ahasenack: Applied.Oct  4 12:24:10 nosferatu kernel: [1057755.099944] audit: type=1400 audit(1538677450.686:496): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" profile="unconfined" name="/usr/sbin/squid" pid=18164 comm="apparmor_parser"
[18:26] <infinity> Oct  4 12:24:10 nosferatu kernel: [1057755.109369] audit: type=1400 audit(1538677450.695:497): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="same as current profile, skipping" profile="unconfined" name="/usr/sbin/squid//squidguard" pid=18164 comm="apparmor_parser"
[18:26] <ahasenack> cool
[18:26] <infinity> Erm, that.
[18:26] <ahasenack> now we wait I guess
[18:26] <infinity> I love waiting.
[18:26] <ahasenack> :)
[18:27] <ahasenack> you have been getting one crash per day basically?
[18:27] <ahasenack> I wonder if logrotate triggers it
[18:27] <ahasenack> I tried here, no dice
[18:27] <infinity> Probably.
[18:27] <jdstrand> ahasenack: lgtm
[18:27] <ahasenack> jdstrand: thx
[18:29] <infinity> Oct 04 00:00:14 nosferatu squid[32112]: assertion failed: comm.cc:428: "!isOpen(conn->fd)"
[18:29] <infinity>  Oct 04 00:00:15 nosferatu squid[10409]: Starting Squid Cache version 4.1 for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu...
[18:29] <infinity>  Oct 04 00:00:15 nosferatu squid[10409]: Service Name: squid
[18:29] <infinity> Hrm, unless I logrotate at midnight now, that's not the trigger.
[18:29] <ahasenack> ok
[18:29] <ahasenack> is the crash always around that timE?
[18:30] <infinity> ahasenack: Not sure.
[18:30] <infinity> ahasenack: Huh.  Yep.  Midnight every day.
[18:31] <ahasenack> fascinating
[18:31] <infinity> ahasenack: So maybe cron.daily moved?  Isn't it meant to be 6am or something?
[18:31] <infinity> Yeah, cron.daily and, thus, logrotate, is 6:25...
[18:31] <ahasenack> 25 6    * * *   root    test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )
[18:31] <ahasenack> mine is that
[18:32] <infinity> Except there's also a systemd timer for logrotate now?
[18:32] <infinity> Fun.
[18:32] <jibel> ahasenack, this machine has been upgraded since utopic, so it might be something that was set then removed
[18:32] <ahasenack> do you see logrotate messages around that time?
[18:32] <infinity> Not sure where I'd see them.
[18:33] <infinity> Ahh, syslog apparently.
[18:33] <infinity> And yes, logrotate is at midnight here.
[18:33] <infinity> Thanks, systemd new world order, for changing everything.  Love you.
[18:34] <infinity> ahasenack: So yeah, I think it's fair to assume that the service restart/reload from logrotate is the trigger.
[18:34] <ahasenack> can you run it manually with logroate -f /etc/logrotate.conf? It will rotate your logs earlier than expected, if you care about it deeply
[18:35] <infinity> ahasenack: I can get sciency about that in a few minutes, sure.  Should probably unapply the apparmor patch first, confirm a few times that it's reproducible, then apply pach.
[18:35] <infinity> patch, too.
[18:35] <ahasenack> that's fine, whenever you can
[18:36] <ahasenack> I'll post on the bug with the patch
[18:36] <ahasenack> jibel: can you check if you have the squid apparmor profile enabled? Check with "ps faxwZ | grep squid", see if it's listed as enforced
[18:37] <ahasenack> jibel: ah, sorry, just saw your bug update
[18:40] <infinity> vorlon: My Technical Architect, is that a thing we should care about?  logrotate moved to systemd timers (apparently) and now runs at midnight instead of the previously-expected cron.daily time.
[18:40] <infinity> s/My/Mr/
[18:40] <infinity> Didn't mean to imply you were a Fisher Price My First Architect.
[18:41] <sarnold> lol
[18:45] <jmbl> rbasak, sorry was away from desk. ok thanks. I am happy to help answer any questions. Unfortunately, we need that functionality to ship a product. sighhhh :-)
[18:47] <infinity> ahasenack: Oh, changing apparmor profiles doesn't apply to running processes, does it?
[18:48]  * infinity suspects not.
[18:49] <sarnold> you need to apparmor_parser --reload /path/to/profile
[18:51] <jdstrand> infinity: if the process is already runningg under the parser, it does with apparmor_parser -r (or --replace, not --reload though)
[18:52] <jdstrand> infinity: if the process started outside of confinement, it needs to be restarted (see 'sudo aa-status')
[18:52] <infinity> Kay, I did replace.
[18:52] <infinity> So, this fix isn't a large enough hammer.
[18:52] <infinity> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nN5HqbS7ZB/ <-- ahasenack
[18:52] <infinity> I also tried a hard restart for kicks.
[18:52] <infinity> Looks like it's happer about net_admin, but still whiney about dbus, and still asserting.
[18:52] <infinity> happier, too.
[18:53] <ahasenack> I didn't handle dbus in that patch
[18:53] <ahasenack> that log is a bit different though
[18:53] <ahasenack> infinity: let's zero in on apparmor first, though. If you disable apparmor profile for squid, does the crash disappear?
[18:54] <infinity> ahasenack: Maybe! (how?  sorry, I'm apparmor stupid)
[18:54] <ahasenack> aa-complain /usr/sbin/squid I *think* is enough
[18:54] <ahasenack> it should still log, but not actually deny
[18:54] <ahasenack> not sure if restarts are needed, just give it a try
[18:54] <sarnold> argh. sorry about --reload. :( been dicking with systemd lately :(
[18:56] <infinity> ahasenack: No dice: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4zm9dDKgk2/
[18:56] <infinity> I should probably fix the config file it's complaining about too, but I can't imagine that being the issue. :P
[18:56] <ahasenack> it's not, I get that too
[18:57] <ahasenack> just no crash
[18:57] <ahasenack> infinity: so is this enough to crash it? /usr/sbin/squid -k rotate
[18:58] <infinity> ahasenack: Yup.
[18:58] <ahasenack> hm
[18:58] <infinity> ahasenack: So, I guess apparmor was a red herring (but clearing out all those sketchy DENYs still seems like a solid plan)
[18:58] <ahasenack> yep
[18:59] <ahasenack> now why can't I get it to crash
[18:59] <infinity> That's a mystery I'm not sure I can solve.
[18:59] <ahasenack> infinity: is that a host, or a container/vm? And amd64 I assume?
[18:59] <infinity> ahasenack: amd64 bare metal.
[18:59] <ahasenack> ok
[19:01] <ahasenack> infinity: is this squid the version from the ppa, or 4.1 from cosmic?
[19:01] <infinity> ahasenack: cosmic.
[19:01] <infinity> ahasenack: Not against trying the PPA now that we have a consistent reproducer.
[19:01] <ahasenack> infinity: can you try the ppa one, and then run /usr/sbin/squid -k rotate command?
[19:01] <infinity> ahasenack: URL to the PPA again?
[19:01] <infinity> (or short name for apt-add...)
[19:02] <ahasenack> infinity: add-apt-repository ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/3450
[19:03] <infinity> Why does squid take so friggin' long to shut down?
[19:03] <infinity> (longterm complaint, this isn't new)
[19:03] <ahasenack> I know
[19:03] <ahasenack> it waits 30s
[19:03] <infinity> Err, wat?
[19:03] <infinity> There's a sleep in there, it's not DOING anything?
[19:03] <ahasenack> it's like a graceful shutdown, but it always does that, regardless if there are open connections or not
[19:04] <infinity> That should be fixed..
[19:04] <infinity> Oh, that's fun.  Upgrading squid doesn't restart squid-deb-proxy.
[19:04] <infinity> Probably also a longstanding bug, but ew.
[19:05]  * infinity restarts manually.
[19:05] <ahasenack> interesting
[19:05] <ahasenack>  /o\ surrounded by bugs
[19:06] <infinity> I mean, squid can't be expected to know about *all* its potential rdeps, but the ones it does know about (cf: the apparmor profile knows of some), it should probably try to detect and restart.
[19:06] <ahasenack> there are ways to link systemd units, maybe it could be done
[19:06] <infinity> Or that.
[19:06] <infinity> Oct  4 13:06:43 nosferatu squid[17502]: assertion failed: comm.cc:428: "!isOpen(conn->fd)"
[19:06] <infinity> (with the new squid)
[19:06] <ahasenack> ok
[19:06] <infinity> So, no dice.
[19:07] <ahasenack> thanks for your help
[19:07] <infinity> I wonder if it's just a stupid assertion that needs to not? :P
[19:07] <infinity> Like, exiting a loop there might be just as sane as DYING HORRIBLY.
[19:08] <infinity> (note: I've not looked at the code at all, maybe it's the 1 in 100 times when assert() is used correctly)
[19:12] <infinity> ahasenack: The other possibility is that this is really expected behaviour, and upstream just didn't think about people like us who trap all unclean exits as errors and whine about them.
[19:12] <infinity> ahasenack: Note that this is the child process that's dying and respawning, not the master, AFAICT.
[19:13] <infinity> ahasenack: So maybe that assert just needs to be an exit, and we can wash our hands of it.
[19:13] <infinity> ahasenack: But an understanding of WTF is going on would be helpful to determine that.
[19:14] <infinity> ahasenack: I make that assertion based on my master processes running since I started them, and the children having new start times after rotate.
[19:15] <ahasenack> hm
[19:15] <infinity> Also, this seems to not have anything to do with squid-deb-proxy, it's the non-deb version that we're testing and killing with squid -k rotate, it looks like.
[19:15] <ahasenack> found an old bug, looking at it: https://bugs.squid-cache.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4796
[19:15] <ahasenack> many comments
[19:17] <sarnold> ew. I have to admit I would have expected socket interaction with logfile rotating to have been sorted out twenty years ago.
[19:19] <infinity> So many wheels to reinvent.
[19:19] <infinity> ahasenack: Seems stalled on another round of review/commit, but the last patch looks plausibly not the worst?
[19:20] <infinity> Oh, and the discussion moved to github... Somewhere.
[19:21] <ahasenack> yeah, tracking
[19:26] <ahasenack> infinity: about the long shutdown: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=898469
[19:27] <ahasenack> been there since 3.5.x
[19:27] <infinity> Also, misreading "FreeBSD" as "Fedora" and then seeing libc.so.7 in a backtrace was mildly terrifying for a split second.
[19:27] <ahasenack> hehe
[19:27] <infinity> OH NO REDHAT WHAT HAVE YO DONE.
[19:27] <ahasenack> saw someone with a plan B of using restart for logrotate instead of "squid -k rotate"
[19:28] <infinity> ahasenack: Which then runs into the long shutdown issue. :)
[19:29] <ahasenack> true
[19:29] <infinity> ahasenack: I wonder if it would be out of line to suggest that the Debian/Ubuntu packages should drop the default for that to 5s or something.
[19:29] <ahasenack> yeah
[19:29] <infinity> Since it can be jacked back up by the config file for people who actually want that.
[19:30] <infinity> I mean, even 5s is too long.  The real bug should be fixed upstream, but whee.
[19:30] <infinity> (The part where it doesn't differentiate between active clients and *any open socket*, and thus always waits the max time)
[19:31] <infinity> I assume this actually, hilariously, means that the log sockets we're currently asserting on are also responsible for the shutdown taking 30s.
[19:31] <infinity> Not that fixing A will fix B.
[19:31] <infinity> Just related code with two stupid bugs that should probably date and make hundreds of little bugs.
[19:32] <ahasenack> debian should also be affected by the crash
[19:32] <infinity> One would assume, yes.
[19:32]  * ahasenack reads through the bug one more time
[19:32] <infinity> But they don't have a crash handler installed by default, so less likely to notice.
[19:32] <infinity> As I pointed out, it's the *child* that dies and respawns, so there's not DoS or anything here.
[19:33] <infinity> So without a crash handler, you'd have to be scouring logs to even notice it happened.
[19:33]  * infinity grabs his crossbow and goes to hunt wild tacos.
[19:34] <sarnold> mm tacos
[20:17] <ahasenack> got it in debian
[20:17] <ahasenack> Oct  4 20:17:00 sid-squid4 squid[582]: assertion failed: comm.cc:428: "!isOpen(conn->fd)"
[20:17] <ahasenack> not sure how yet, I ran -k rotate multiple times, sometimes with an open connection
[20:17] <ahasenack> but getting there
[20:52] <ahasenack> infinity: got a reproducer, and a one-line config change that explains why squid-deb-proxy doesn't crash by default, but squid does
[20:52] <ahasenack> squid-deb-proxy has cache_dir specified, as does my home proxy. With that, it doesn't crash on squid -k rotate
[20:52] <ahasenack> I'll update the upstream bug, and might file a debian one as well now that I have a simple reproducer
[21:07] <infinity> ahasenack: Shiny.  Well-sleuthed.
[21:08] <infinity> ahasenack: So, the TLDR for me is that if I mask out the main service (as I wanted to do anyway), the bug goes away for me? :P
[21:08] <infinity> ahasenack: (not at all a valid excuse to not fix it, obviously)
[21:08] <ahasenack> infinity: yes
[21:08] <ahasenack> or add cache_dir to squid.conf, for reasons
[21:09] <infinity> Should it not have a baked-in default for that anyway, pointing to a dpkg-owned directory?
[21:09] <ahasenack> if you want to confirm it
[21:09] <ahasenack> squid-deb-proxy does the right thing
[21:09] <infinity> Seems like a packaging bug tickling the upstream bug.
[21:09] <ahasenack> squid.conf, I don't know why there is no default, probably because you have to specify a size
[21:09] <ahasenack> the cache is only in ram then, without cache_dir, afaik
[21:09] <infinity> A default config with no cache dir seems vaguely useless.
[21:10] <ahasenack> let me see if there is an option where you don't have to specify the max size
[21:10] <infinity> But maybe I'm not imagning some weird use of squid where you would be happy with a tiny RAM cache.
[21:10] <infinity> imagining*
[21:11] <ahasenack> well, it's a proxy and a cache
[21:11] <ahasenack> two things in one
[21:11] <ahasenack> the proxy bit can be used for access control
[21:12] <infinity> There are other proxies that are better at that if you don't also want the caching, IMO.
[21:12] <ahasenack> all cache_dir types require a size parameter, something hard to guess a good default for
[21:12] <infinity> But fair point.
[21:12] <ahasenack> #Default:
[21:12] <ahasenack> # No disk cache. Store cache ojects only in memory.
[21:12] <infinity> I still think preconfiguring a cache dir (even if tiny) makes sense.  But, again, still not an excuse for not fixing the upstream bug.
[21:12] <ahasenack> after all, squid-deb-proxy does have a default cache dir
[21:13] <infinity> I'd rather waste some arbitrary value (500M?) of everyone's disk than eat their RAM.
[21:13] <infinity> If I had to pick a "sane" unpacked-but-not-user-configured state.
[21:13] <ahasenack> # use a different dir than stock squid and default to 40G
[21:13] <ahasenack> cache_dir aufs /var/cache/squid-deb-proxy 40000 16 256
[21:13] <ahasenack> that's from squid-deb-proxy
[21:13] <ahasenack> someone made the call
[21:13] <nacc> infinity: yeah, esp. as a default configuration setting these days
[23:38] <vorlon> infinity: ah, poor merger I that I didn't notice the change to timers also changed the time it ran.  I think that yes, we ought to move it to again run in the 6am window.
[23:51] <jbicha> vorlon: if you're around, there are some proposed hints: https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-release/britney/hints-ubuntu/+activereviews


[15:21] <arkin> http://pastie.org/private/aedriwyhrntvtylnf0txgg
[15:21] <arkin> can anyone help me clean this up? I'm getting some errors atm
[15:34] <smoser> arkin, you're probably facing shell quote issues
[15:34] <smoser> avoid shell quote
[15:35] <smoser> instead of 'runcmd' having a bunch of strings, populate it with a bunch of arrays
[15:35] <smoser> not this
[15:35] <smoser> runcmd:
[15:35] <smoser>   - mysql -e 'CREATE DATABASE \`{{ mysql_db }}\`;'
[15:35] <smoser> but this
[15:35] <smoser> runcmd:
[15:35] <smoser>   - [mysql, -e 'CREATE DATABASE "{{ mysql_db }}";'
[15:36] <smoser> or whatever would be the right syntax there.
[15:36] <smoser> but basically then you can avoid shell getting in the way.
[17:08] <arkin> yea I am smoser
[17:09] <arkin> I fixed it messing around with " ' ` variations
[17:09] <arkin> thanks for your reply
[17:14] <smoser> arkin, really, though. get rid of the shell interpretation
[17:14] <smoser> its much more sane.


[15:23] <Roguehorse> man, it's quiet the last two days
[19:52] <czajkowski> Aloha :)
[19:52] <pleia2> o/ czajkowski
[19:55] <czajkowski> so there is a conference we're putting on next week in the Levi's stadium
[19:56] <czajkowski> it's open to all and there is a free code to use to get a ticket
[19:56] <pleia2> we == couchbase?
[19:56] <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/couchbase/status/604365392816005121
[19:56] <darthrobot> Title: [Couchbase on Twitter: "Nike, PayPal, Motorola & Blizzard share ideas on building gender diverse teams. Register FREE: code CBC15 http://t.co/oKof6YeFfH #CBConnect"]
[19:56] <czajkowski> yes we as in couchbase
[19:56] <czajkowski> sorry trying to find the code :)
[19:57] <czajkowski> tuessday is workshops
[19:58] <czajkowski> and wed & thursday nice selection of talks to go to
[19:58] <czajkowski> http://www.cvent.com/events/couchbase-connect-15/agenda-b7744ca960364b75aba41de42cbef19e.aspx?page=agenda
[19:58] <darthrobot> Title: [Couchbase Connect 15 - Agenda | Online Registration by Cvent]
[19:58] <pleia2> thanks for letting us know :)
[19:58] <czajkowski> thanks Lyz for letting me share
[19:58] <czajkowski> also Levi's stadium is meant to be a big thing :)
[19:59] <czajkowski> news to me :D
[19:59] <pleia2> it's the new football stadium in santa clara, very popular american football team plays there ;)
[19:59] <czajkowski> aye looks very large
[20:00] <czajkowski> pleia2: is it ok to idle in here in case folks have questions ?
[20:00] <pleia2> sure, you live here like 10% of the time anyway ;)
[20:03] <czajkowski> heh true


[05:20] <klepas> Ahoy
[06:01] <lllmanulll> Hey there
[06:01] <lllmanulll> Huh, who is Pascal ? :)
[06:01] <klepas> that's be me
[06:01] <lllmanulll> Ah, great :)
[06:02] <lllmanulll> I'm the one complaining about the "nearly headless" humanity theme :-p
[06:02] <klepas> hehe.
[06:02] <lllmanulll> Anyway, I made these icons a month ago now, and didn't find any way to either get them reviewed or enhanced for inclusion in Humanity
[06:03] <lllmanulll> You can see a few of them here :
[06:03] <lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu-soc/
[06:03] <klepas> what is your name on the mailing list?
[06:03] <lllmanulll> bottom of the page
[06:03] <lllmanulll> "Manu Cornet"
[06:03] <klepas> Oh!
[06:03] <klepas> Woot
[06:03] <klepas> check my reply
[06:04] <lllmanulll> Huh, you wouldn't happen to be French, would you ? Or we might just as well speak French :-p
[06:04] <lllmanulll> Yup, I got it :)
[06:04] <lllmanulll> That's why I came here, since there is hardly any activity on this channel most of the time...
[06:04] <klepas> Yes
[06:05] <klepas> Ah well
[06:05] <klepas> :)
[06:05] <klepas> i like it quiet
[06:05] <klepas> :-P
[06:05] <lllmanulll> So, is there a "step by step" process I should follow for my icons, to get them submitted somewhere ?
[06:05] <lllmanulll> I read the icon howto
[06:05] <klepas> Sorry, I cannot speak French. English can do?
[06:05] <lllmanulll> English is fine :)
[06:05] <klepas> I'd say contact Andy
[06:05] <klepas> also talk to ogra
[06:05] <lllmanulll> Yeah, but how :)
[06:06] <klepas> he has his Jabber ID, phone number and email address listed on his personal page in the wiki
[06:06] <lllmanulll> Ah
[06:06] <lllmanulll> Well, I have always hoped to catch him here
[06:06] <lllmanulll> Or hoped that he would answer on the list, but..
[06:08] <klepas> Sorry about that
[06:09] <lllmanulll> No problem :)
[06:09] <lllmanulll> All right, I added him to my contact list, and I think I'll just wait for him to appear :)
[06:10] <klepas> He lives in Australia too
[06:10] <lllmanulll> I had hoped he would appear here or on the mailing list, but...
[06:10] <klepas> right now it is 10 past 2 AM here
[06:10] <lllmanulll> Ah, right :)
[06:10] <klepas> I have not seen much of him via the Mailing List
[06:10] <klepas> I found that just emailing him was most effect
[06:10] <lllmanulll> Yup, I haven't either
[06:10] <klepas> *effective
[06:11] <lllmanulll> Anyway, if I understand correctly, he's nearly the only guy working on Humility ?
[06:11] <klepas> pretty much
[06:11] <lllmanulll> All right, then I'll be glad to help
[06:11] <klepas> the humility wiki page has a listing of anyone else who is working on it
[06:12] <klepas> and there are only a small handful of other names
[06:12] <klepas> and they only have one or two icons each
[06:12] <lllmanulll> Yes, and I did update it with my Firefox stuff, but nothing happened
[06:12] <klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/63
[06:12] <klepas> mhh
[06:12] <lllmanulll> Ah great, you added them :)
[06:13] <klepas> second of three
[06:13] <lllmanulll> Thanks a lot :)
[06:13] <klepas> i shall add more tomorrow
[06:13] <klepas> no worries
[06:13] <klepas> :)
[06:13] <klepas> well today I guess
[06:13] <klepas> just after I've had my share of sleep
[06:13] <lllmanulll> I'm not sure my pictures are good enough, but the idea is good I think
[06:13] <klepas> I like it
[06:13] <klepas> just one request
[06:13] <lllmanulll> Yes ?
[06:13] <klepas> could you upload future photos as JPEGs?
[06:14] <lllmanulll> Sure
[06:14] <lllmanulll> I thought PNG was the standard
[06:14] <klepas> those two pictures took 8 minutes
[06:14] <lllmanulll> Ok, no problem
[06:14] <lllmanulll> But nothing to change for these first three ?
[06:14] <klepas> and over sftp it is slow
[06:14] <klepas> :)
[06:14] <klepas> Yea, it's alright
[06:14] <klepas> I would, but the CMS is crappy
[06:15] <lllmanulll> Ok, thanks a lot for the help
[06:15] <klepas> I wish art.ubuntu.com could be using something like the GNOME-look CMS
[06:15] <lllmanulll> I'll let you get some sleep now :) And thanks for your patience
[06:15] <klepas> No problems
[06:15] <klepas> ;-)
[06:15] <klepas> I'm sticking around a wee bit longer
[06:15] <lllmanulll> k
[06:16] <klepas> need to add our first GTK theme!
[06:16] <klepas> two were submitted today
[06:16] <lllmanulll> Well that's good news
[06:16] <klepas> yep
[06:17] <klepas> both are quite stylish
[06:17] <klepas> one I think could even replace the default human...
[06:17] <klepas> GTK theme
[06:17] <lllmanulll> Hehe, can't wait to see this :)
[06:18] <klepas> only problem...
[06:18] <lllmanulll> ah ?
[06:18] <klepas> i am unsure of what thumbnail and screenshot to use
[06:20] <klepas> like how do the art.gnome.org folks get these thumbnails: http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/
[06:20] <lllmanulll> Ah, maybe I know that
[06:20] <lllmanulll> Let me see
[06:20] <klepas> :)
[06:23] <klepas> Any luck?
[06:23] <lllmanulll> Hmm, searching
[06:23] <lllmanulll> I once installed something like themepreview
[06:24] <lllmanulll> Forgot the exact name
[06:25] <lllmanulll> Right, it is called themepreview, but I'm not sure it is what you want
[06:25] <klepas> because I'm on my Suse
[06:25] <klepas> running KDE
[06:26] <klepas> would you be able to try it out?
[06:26] <klepas> It'd mean I can add this now
[06:26] <lllmanulll> Doesn't seem to be a package for this
[06:27] <lllmanulll> I remember I compiled it, but I can't find the sources again
[06:27] <lllmanulll> Searching :)
[06:27] <klepas> I appreciate it. Thank you
[06:29] <lllmanulll> http://www.users.monornet.hu/linux/stuffs.html
[06:29] <lllmanulll> Bottom of the page
[06:29] <lllmanulll> Is that it ?
[06:30] <klepas> Should do it
[06:30] <klepas> I'm going to drop a mail to the mailing list tomorrow
[06:31] <klepas> I'll add that theme then
[06:31] <klepas> if you want to see them beforehand [the 2 themes] , check GNOME-Look.org
[06:31] <klepas> :)
[06:31] <klepas> New Human
[06:31] <klepas> and another one of some description
[06:33] <lllmanulll> Got it, looks good
[06:33] <lllmanulll> Maybe a little heavy on the borders ?
[06:34] <klepas> Yes
[06:34] <klepas> It's GPL, so anyone can change it :)
[06:36] <lllmanulll> Yup, I like the Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons a lot, thought :)
[06:37] <klepas> Yea
[06:37] <klepas> I think they look... Ubunutu-ish :-P
[06:38] <lllmanulll> Anyway, none of this is for breezy, right ?
[06:39] <klepas> no, sadly not
[06:40] <klepas> breezy art deadline was on the 29th of last month
[06:40] <lllmanulll> Well let's make dapper look great :)
[06:40] <klepas> Hence the title :)
[06:41] <klepas> *topic
[06:42] <klepas> xdesktopwaves.sf.net
[06:44] <klepas> :)
[07:02] <lllmanulll> Haha, just tried it here (there's an ubuntu package), it rocks ! :)
[07:02] <lllmanulll> And not slow at all
[07:03] <klepas> xdesktopwaves -quality 7 -nwm -nww -rn 5 -vs 3
[07:06] <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/73
[07:06] <klepas> with screenshots
[07:06] <klepas> :0
[07:06] <klepas> *:)
[07:07] <klepas> I'm going to sleep now
[07:07] <klepas> Thanks and hope to see you again later today :-P
[07:08] <klepas> Cheers