[05:42] <ukcouple> Hi
[06:56] <Wobbo> After a while, 4/5 month, 13.04 is getting slow, very slow. Starting up en logging in is no problem. But then, stuff like Nautilus, Chrome and the systemsetting CMS i s sloff. I have a Intel i5 Core, 8gig ram, Ubuntu 13.04 64b....
[06:56] <Wobbo> Any tips?
[07:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:30] <AlanBell> morning
[07:30] <MooDoo> Morning Alan
[07:31] <popey> Yes
[07:31] <popey> That
[07:33] <MooDoo> Morning Alans :)
[07:36] <AlanBell> ah bother, I can't make the release party :(
[07:36] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2555-saucy-salamander-release-party/
[07:37] <MooDoo> me neither :(
[07:41] <MooDoo> ooooo i want a ubuntu member cert, only problem is I'm not an ubuntu member, they look purty though :)
[07:41] <AlanBell> they are :)
[07:41] <MooDoo> :p
[07:41] <MooDoo> might have to look at becoming one then :) lol
[07:41] <AlanBell> document your awesome contributions to Ubuntu and you too can have one
[07:42] <MooDoo> alas me being awesome in here is the only contribution I currently make :)
[07:42] <AlanBell> woah, no xmir
[07:43] <MooDoo> yup, not ready
[07:43] <diddledan> no xmir?
[07:43] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-October/037695.html
[07:43] <MooDoo> Don't blame them to be honest, if it's not ready it's not ready...
[07:43] <AlanBell> that is a bit of a last minute trip
[07:44] <diddledan> dang
[07:45] <MooDoo> Don't think it's going to make a difference if it's not in this version is it?
[07:45] <AlanBell> well it will be in, but not turned on by default
[07:46] <diddledan> the problem is it means that 14.04 won't have such extensive background testing of the xmir stack from all the users of 13.10
[07:47] <AlanBell> in theory 14.04 should be using unity 8 and native Mir stuff
[07:47] <diddledan> aah
[07:47] <AlanBell> rather than the strange xmir thing
[07:47] <AlanBell> well actually some xmir stuff might be kicking about in 14.04 as well for some applications in a way I don't really understand
[07:48] <AlanBell> the xmir fullscreen stuff always seemed pointless to me, however on the plus side, this means that 13.10 will be pretty solid, it is what I am using now
[07:50] <popey> Or LTS could be bumped to 14.10
[07:53] <AlanBell> surprised it wasn't mentioned in the technical board meeting yesterday
[08:13] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:16] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Farm Animals Day! :-D
[08:17] <popey> moo
[08:21] <diddledan> oink
[08:25] <DJones> Baa
[08:25] <MooDoo> nayyyyyyyyy
[08:26]  * DJones puts a saddle on MooDoo
[08:28] <MooDoo> DJones: ride em cowboy.......errr
[08:28] <diddledan> DJones, MooDoo: that makes my perverted mind go to bad places
[08:28] <DJones> Now theres an idea, I've got the right boots, coat & hat, now, where did I put the whip
[08:29] <DJones> Ooh Er Mother
[08:29]  * diddledan grins mischeivously
[08:39] <MooDoo> noooooooooooooooooooo
[08:45] <JamesTait> I think I'm going to be a duck today.
[08:46] <diddledan> yey
[08:46] <MooDoo> JamesTait: snap, a aqua planing duck :)
[08:46] <JamesTait> MooDoo, that almost sounds like a release codename. ;)
[08:47] <MooDoo> maybe for next time round.  Code name for A is Aquaplaneing Duck
[08:47] <shauno> I read that as 'planning' several times, until I finally figured out where I was going wrong
[08:47] <popey> maybe he's planning a pond
[08:48] <MooDoo> yeah I can't spell this early in the morning
[08:49] <MooDoo> actually has T been announced yet, speaking of release names?
[08:49] <shauno> nah I think you got it right.  I just haven't had enough coffee to deal with scheming ducks just yet
[08:50] <AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, the last few were announced on release day (which messes up some packages that require the next release name in them)
[08:51] <MooDoo> excellent planning that
[08:51] <DJones> MooDoo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames Some interesting suggestions listed
[08:51] <diddledan> MooDoo: I vote for the tenacious tamarin
[08:51] <MooDoo> http://a-z-animals.com/animals/pictures/T/
[08:51] <diddledan> ah someone's already used tenacious
[08:51] <MooDoo> Talkative Toucan
[08:52] <diddledan> tweakable tit? (a tit is a bird you disgusting-minded perverts!)
[08:52] <MooDoo> tippytoed tapir
[08:53] <bashrc> Tipsy Tarantula
[08:53] <diddledan> I find it entirely dissatisfying how few double entendres ubuntu has used as codenames
[08:53] <MooDoo> well we all know it's going to be obscure :)
[08:54] <bigcalm> Touchy Toad
[08:54] <shauno> toot toot!
[08:54] <bashrc> Tempestuous Terrapin
[08:56] <DJones> Maybe they should do a google (eg Android KitKat), pick a food item named after an animal and see if they can get sponsorship from the food producer
[08:56] <AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-start-a-techmums-revolution is interesting, Dr Black of saving Bletchly fame is running it
[08:57] <diddledan> DJones: penguin!
[08:57] <bigcalm> I think a brand would shout copyright infringement if it were done that way. It's likely that Google sat down with Nestlé for a long time before agreeing the name
[08:58] <AlanBell> bigcalm: apparently it was very quick
[08:58] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I am surprised
[09:06] <Laney> http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Assets_pdf/Beer_2013_List.pdf
[09:06] <Laney> going to be hard to choose!
[09:07] <MooDoo> should be good
[09:07] <MooDoo> not sure if I'm going this year.
[09:09] <Laney> going to be difficult if you don't have a ticket
[09:09] <Laney> get down early on the saturday
[09:20] <MooDoo> Laney: yeah they sold out when I tried to get tickets.
[09:20] <Laney> yep :(
[09:21] <Laney> Get the Friday off if you can and go down early
[09:21] <Laney> that's what we're doing
[09:21] <MooDoo> might just have to give it a miss and plan an ubuntu hour for next years ;)
[09:22] <Laney> haha
[09:22] <MooDoo> Laney: or just bulk buy tickets and have an ubuntu visit to nottingham llke they do darn sarf with the real ale train
[09:22] <Laney> Could do that, it's worth travelling for IMO
[09:23] <MooDoo> yup
[09:23] <MooDoo> might look into that
[09:24] <MooDoo> I'm really surprised there hasn't been an ubuntu hour hangout on air ;)
[09:47] <MooDoo> Laney: see what happens we talk about beer and nottingham and it all goes quiet :)
[09:47] <Laney> sorry I went into an IPA induced trance
[09:48] <mungbean> better than an API induced one
[09:53] <bigcalm> We need an IPA API
[09:55] <Laney> one method: moreIPA();
[09:55] <mungbean> IPA = fusty guts
[09:58] <gordonjcp> IPAoIP
[09:59] <mgdm> IPAoIPoA (over ATM, like DSL is here...)
[09:59] <JamesTait> An IPAoIPoA API?
[09:59] <bigcalm> No` gave us beeroverip.org
[10:00] <mgdm> and other weirder, frencher things
[10:00] <JamesTait> "And another consonant, please, Rachel."
[10:00] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: no lug for me :( too much on
[10:06] <AlanBell> JamesTait: no Carol any more?
[10:07] <mgdm> hasn't been for years
[10:07] <JamesTait> AlanBell, not any more. She's too busy adverising, well, pretty much anything.
[10:07] <AlanBell> gosh, since 2008 I haven't watched countdown
[10:07] <JamesTait> "I'll have a 'T', please, Bob."
[10:08] <AlanBell> and yes, Carol does do too many suspect advertising jobs
[10:08] <bigcalm> Rachel is a good reason to watch Strictly Come Dancing this year
[10:08] <JamesTait> bigcalm, is she a good dancer then?
[10:08] <popey> She is perfect
[10:08] <popey> In every way.
[10:08] <JamesTait> :D
[10:08] <mgdm> bigcalm: or, indeed, Countdown... :-)
[10:08] <bigcalm> JamesTait: don't know, haven't watched it yet. I just find her lovely
[10:09] <AlanBell> especially the loan adverts, very very sad to see her endorsing high APR loans
[10:09] <bigcalm> 8 out of 10 does Countdown is spiffing \o/
[10:09] <JamesTait> bigcalm, +1
[10:09] <mgdm> (while developing set top box apps the TV coicidentally ends up on C4 around 3pm quite a few times)
[10:09] <popey> +1
[10:09] <JamesTait> 10/10! Yay!
[10:10] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:10] <bigcalm> Suzie is lovely as well
[10:10] <MooDoo> Have you seens here on celebrity countdown?  She's hilarious on that
[10:12] <JamesTait> bigcalm, +1 there too.
[10:15] <MooDoo> http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article420635.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/rachel-riley-countdown-pic-pixel-72748871-420635.jpg - coarrrrrr ;) lol
[10:16] <mungbean> have you seen rachel's husband? for such a beauty, he's a very average looking man. did i mention he's a millionaire?
[10:17] <mgdm> now now
[10:17] <mgdm> :P
[10:17] <diddledan> I only watch strictly (yes I watch strictly) because of all the pretty eye-candy :-p
[10:18] <diddledan> and anne widdecombe
[10:18] <MooDoo> lol
[10:21]  * davmor2 pictures diddledan watching strictly while listening to this in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhfbYtbpNxY
[10:23] <diddledan> lol
[10:25] <popey> I only watch Strictly because I have a 10 year old daughter and a wife.
[10:25] <popey> I need to buy a new telly for the other room
[10:26] <diddledan> popey: ipad
[10:26] <brobostigon> i know that feeling from somewhere.
[10:26] <diddledan> and catchuptv app
[10:26] <brobostigon> soaps included.
[10:26] <mungbean> my wife doesn't watch downton , eastenders or strictly, or ITV
[10:26] <mungbean> i'm a lucky man
[10:26] <MooDoo> thank good ness my daughter is only two, it'll be cancelled by the times she's old enough to appreciate it lol
[10:27] <popey> diddledan: can't connect an xbox to an ipad
[10:27] <diddledan> lol
[10:27] <diddledan> fair enough
[10:27] <bigcalm> One for czajkowski http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Fashion-Cat-Face-Tote-Bag-Handbag-Purse-Japan-Muchacha-Ahcahcum-DMH07-/111159460157?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item19e19ec13d&nma=true&si=6gkk9qYqnlstv9sHymnZ61WXEyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[10:28] <czajkowski> bigcalm: no!
[10:28] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:28] <bigcalm> Amusing that it's listed as a cat face bag
[10:28]  * AlanBell is mildly curious about how bigcalm came to find that page
[10:28] <mgdm> google for "things to troll czajkowski with"
[10:28] <bigcalm> AlanBell: linked to from an ex-gf's tumblr blog
[10:29] <bigcalm> mgdm: ooo, tempting ;)
[10:29] <AlanBell> speaking of trolling czajkowski, is it mug night tomorrow?
[10:29] <MooDoo> mgdm: is that trollczajkowski.com ?
[10:30] <diddledan> someone really thinks that's a cat's face?!
[10:31] <diddledan> oh they do two versions
[10:32] <diddledan> lol @ Package Content	  1 *   BAG
[10:32] <diddledan> well duh
[10:32] <mungbean> when ping packets have quick response, but only get sent every 5 secs instead of 1, is that a dns issue?
[10:34] <mungbean> ping -n is quick
[10:34] <mungbean> pretty sure it means no reverse lookup
[10:36] <diddledan> mungbean: sounds like dns is timing out
[10:36] <MooDoo> Numeric output only.  No attempt will be made to lookup symbolic names for host addresses.
[10:36] <MooDoo> that's what -n is
[10:36] <mungbean> forward lookup works, reverse doesn't
[10:37] <MooDoo> I'll shut up
[10:37] <diddledan> mungbean: dig -x <IP_ADDRESS> <-- replace with a meaningful ip
[10:37] <diddledan> try again with +trace appended
[10:37] <diddledan> that will indicate which dns server is failing
[10:37] <mungbean> the dns server isn't failing
[10:38] <mungbean> its cos the PTR record doesn't exist
[10:38] <diddledan> that should return instantly
[10:39] <diddledan> it should immediately return NXDOMAIN
[10:39] <diddledan> if it's timing out then that's another issue entirely
[10:40] <mungbean> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 49227
[10:41] <czajkowski> AlanBell: it is Eliot is speaking
[10:44] <AlanBell> cool, and free pizza too :)
[10:46] <BigRedS> I alt-tab and see "free pizza"; what have I missed?
[10:48] <AlanBell> mongodb user group tomorrow
[10:48] <AlanBell> near silicon roundabout
[10:48] <BigRedS> ooh
[11:00] <MooDoo> pizza?
[11:00] <BigRedS> pizza
[11:02] <MooDoo> yum
[11:11] <mungbean> popey: how many on the linux jobs mailing nowadays please?
[11:11] <mungbean> approx
[11:11] <popey> 700
[11:13] <diddledan> 1 of those is me :-)
[11:13] <mungbean> thanks. static, or growing you think?
[11:13] <mungbean> have a cool job coming up
[11:13] <popey> you going to post it to the list?
[11:14] <mungbean> when its released
[11:14] <mungbean> still working on job desc
[11:14] <popey> just make sure to adhere to the recommendations on the list admin page
[11:15] <MooDoo> is that this one? - http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
[11:15] <MooDoo> ?
[11:15] <mungbean> features linux as a component of the role?
[11:15] <mungbean> yeah they are reasonable rules
[11:16] <popey> yes
[11:16] <popey> people complain if salary details aren't there too
[11:16] <popey> a browse back in the archive showing threads with more than one reply highlights this
[11:16] <mungbean> what if ythey are in a link for full details?
[11:17] <mungbean> the list members seem a bit anal
[11:17] <popey> yes, yes they do
[11:17] <popey> put plenty of detail in the mail
[11:17] <mungbean> mentioned before that i got some interesting reply last time
[11:17] <mungbean> not sure i want difficult people ;)
[11:17] <popey> yeah, most are typical geeks with missing social skills
[11:17] <popey> s/most/many/
[11:17] <MooDoo> brill subscribed
[11:18] <MooDoo> soo that's 701 mungbean ;)
[11:18] <popey> 700 was approx
[11:19] <MooDoo> I know I was just playing
[11:19]  * TheOpenSourcerer is at home feeling crap whilst Souther Electric dig up his garden looking for a broken power supply cable
[11:19] <MooDoo> eeeek
[11:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> We are currently running of the street lamp ;-)
[11:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\of\off
[11:20] <MooDoo> ouch still no power :(
[11:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - I think I'm being stupid. Want to ask about wireless APs
[11:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> In my home office I have a broadband router with a wifi network
[11:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> House is flood wired with cat5
[11:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> far away at the other end of the house i have a wifi AP - with 5 ethernet ports 1xWAN & 4 LAN
[11:21] <popey> http://www.unixstickers.com/linux-keyboard-stickers
[11:21] <popey> not seen those before
[11:21] <directhex> aha! i have defeated etherpad
[11:22] <directhex> its tangled corpse lies before my cluebat
[11:22] <popey> etherpad lite?
[11:22] <directhex> yes
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> I want the remote AP to act as a bridge so the IP dhcp server is always on my main adsl router and all devices connected to either wifi network share the same subnet
[11:22] <directhex> which is inherently broken and bad in different yet similar ways to etherpad fat
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Should this be hard to do or what?
[11:22] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, AP in bridge mode?
[11:23] <MooDoo> popey: no ubuntu or am i blind
[11:23] <popey> correct
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: I think so yes.
[11:23] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have that setup here
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> But wifi bridges seem to refer to extending the wifi using wifi repeaters not over my physical LAN
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> So how do I configure the remote AP?
[11:24] <popey> mine is just a netgear wifi router which has openwrt on it. works a treat
[11:24] <popey> it's just a bridge
[11:24] <popey> so whichever AP you're on you get an IP from the central DHCP server
[11:24] <popey> exactly as you describe
[11:24] <bigcalm> Funky
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good so I'm not being stupid at least
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> All my googling failed.
[11:25] <diddledan> I've read that you can also have the two networks use the same ssid and security keys and you'll float between them
[11:25] <popey> I have a Netgear WNDR3700 which has two radios
[11:25] <popey> thats what I do diddledan
[11:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Perhaps my second AP doesn't support bridging - I'm not wanting to bridge over the air. I have cat5 cable
[11:26] <popey> Most don't
[11:26] <popey> Hence me flashing with openwrt
[11:27] <popey> which does ☻
[11:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - OK.
[11:28] <bigcalm> My router has two radios in it, so I have the 2nd one set to 5GHz. Laptop and phone then connect to whichever they like
[11:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I might have to flash my DG843G then I think
[11:31] <popey> yeah, mine has two too
[11:34] <bigcalm> popey: I still haven't tried to fix my bricked WNDR3800. Buying yours was a much simpler option :)
[11:37] <MooDoo> my router doesn't support openwrt
[11:39] <davmor2> MooDoo: have a look at DDWRT instead
[11:40] <davmor2> MooDoo: Mine is listed on both however the gui part wasn't working on openwrt at the time of install but was on dd-wrt so I went with dd-wrt instead and it works very nicely :)
[11:42] <popey> i have no gui on my openwrt
[11:42] <popey> just telnet in and fiddle
[11:46] <davmor2> popey: yeah I'm still finding my way around gateway commands as it is and needed the router up and running and configured so the gui was way quicker for me :)
[11:46] <popey> hehe
[11:47] <popey> mine is configured to have backup internet on a 3g dongle attached via USB
[11:47] <MooDoo> davmor2: I think mine is just too old :)
[11:48] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes not supported
[11:57] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: is it the same AP we have in the office? I have just been trying to get that into bridge mode for SIP stuffs
[11:57] <AlanBell> settled for a static IP address and the DMZ host thing
[12:01] <mungbean> irssi reports lag on this chan now. didn't think it used to :S
[12:03] <Laney> halp, english assistance required
[12:04] <Laney> how do I write the sentence "Align the grid horizontally centrally"?
[12:05] <AlanBell> "Centre the grid horizontally"
[12:05] <mungbean> text in the grid or the grid?
[12:06] <Laney> alanbell wins
[12:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah hi AlanBell
[12:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes - the Tenda W311R
[12:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> I *think* the  way to do it is to connect the LAN to one of the switched ports and disable the dhcp server
[12:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nut I haven't tried that yet. I was just eating a ragingly hot curry :-D
[12:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\Nut\But
[12:14] <jaffa314> hi
[12:14] <jaffa314> can enyone help me with ubuntu 13.04?
[12:15] <jaffa314> nothin wrong with the ubuntu, but the touch screen i'm usin...
[12:15] <jaffa314> dosen't work
[12:16] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: ooh, that might work
[12:17] <jaffa314> enyone here?
[12:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> jaffa314: yes - but perhaps we can;t answer your question?
[12:17] <AlanBell> jaffa314: lots of people here
[12:17] <BigRedS> jaffa314: I don't think anyone's going to say they can definitely help without knowing what the problem is
[12:17] <jaffa314> maybe...
[12:18] <jaffa314> I have new pc running ubuntu
[12:18] <AlanBell> if I want to install something from a ppa and it hasn't published for the version of Ubuntu I am on, can I force it somehow?
[12:18] <jaffa314> 13.04
[12:18] <AlanBell> without downloading the debs individually
[12:18] <jaffa314> and viewsonic tuoch screen is installed
[12:19] <jaffa314> but the tuoch function works only in folders
[12:19] <Daviey> if it's compatible, just put the version that it is published for in your sources.list
[12:19] <Daviey> AlanBell: ^
[12:19] <AlanBell> Daviey: ah, right, that makes sense
[12:20] <Daviey> deb http://launchpad/xx/x/x/x hardy main
[12:20] <Daviey> :)
[12:20] <jaffa314> is there some spesific driver for tuoch screens?
[12:37] <AlanBell> anyone using RabbitMQ or knows if it is a good thing?
[12:37] <mgdm> I'm not using it myself but I know people who speak highly of it
[12:38] <AlanBell> I want a telephony thing to make something happen in a PHP application and I can apparently link them with rabbitMQ
[12:38] <mgdm> (admittedly that's because I know one of the developers, but...)
[12:44] <mungbean> i got a 100gb box.net account, but can't upload any files. great
[12:46] <directhex> rabbitmq is... not bug-free
[12:55] <diddledan> rabbitmq is used for openstack isn't it?
[12:55] <diddledan> maybe that's why openstack is so evil? :-p
[12:58] <shauno> nah, openstack's evil because the documentation is 2 years behind :/
[13:21] <mungbean> can i just dd a centos iso onto usb stick?
[13:23] <diddledan> mungbean: I think it depends on the bios you're gonna boot it with
[13:23] <mungbean> "normal"
[13:24] <diddledan> for e.g. apple systems will happily boot from such a stick
[13:24] <mungbean> not apple
[13:25] <mungbean> uentbootin aint recognising any sticks
[13:28] <mungbean> got unetbootin to comply
[13:35] <AlanBell> anyone know about unix sockets? I have an opensips server that is supposed to make a socket at /tmp/opensips.sock but if I look in /tmp I see nothing of the kind
[13:35] <AlanBell> should I see a file there for a socket? can I cat it to read from it or something?
[13:36] <mungbean> centos kernel panic on boot :(
[13:36]  * bigcalm updates wedding website with new photo
[13:39] <mgdm> AlanBell: you should see the file, yes
[13:39] <mgdm> AlanBell: has it maybe ended up elsewhere, like /var/run or something?
[13:42] <AlanBell> mgdm: doesn't appear to
[13:42] <diddledan> AlanBell: is it chrooted to /var/lib/*
[13:42] <AlanBell> however I just got UDP sockets working, so I might be able to run with that
[13:43] <AlanBell> don't think it is chrooted, in fact there is a /tmp/opensips_fifo present when it is running
[13:43] <diddledan> is that not it?
[13:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Just moved the cat5 cable from the WAN port to one of the switched ports on the AP and it's now serving IPs from the other router's DHCP server ;-)
[13:43] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: awesome \o/
[13:44] <mgdm> AlanBell: that sounds lie it
[13:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Think that was all I did.
[13:46] <AlanBell> no, that fifo thing isn't it as far as I can tell, that is there even when I remove the bit that should create the socket I want
[13:47] <AlanBell> however if UDP works, and I can read from a UDP socket using PHP then I should be good to proceed
[13:47] <mgdm> you can
[13:48] <mgdm> http://php.net/manual/en/function.stream-socket-client.php
[13:50] <bigcalm> How would I express "<IP_ADDRESS> - <IP_ADDRESS>" as a / mask?
[13:51] <mgdm> <IP_ADDRESS>/30, but that will include .11
[13:51] <mgdm> (I think)
[13:51] <directhex> yeah, "you can't"
[13:51] <directhex> since it's not a power of 2
[13:51] <bigcalm> I see
[13:51] <mungbean> handy program , see sipcalc
[13:51] <mungbean> e.g. sipcalc <IP_ADDRESS>/30
[13:52] <bigcalm> Ta, I'll let Rackspace work it out ;)
[13:54] <bigcalm> pwgen -1syc 16
[13:55] <bigcalm> Nice and rememberable password generation :D
[13:56] <ali1234> head -c 10 /dev/urandom | uuencode -
[13:56] <ali1234> if you don't have pwgen for some reason
[13:57] <bigcalm> ali1234: pwgen isn't installed by default :(
[13:57] <bigcalm> (on Ubuntu)
[13:57] <ali1234> neither is uuencode :(
[14:00] <directhex> ali1234, that misses the point of pwgen
[14:00] <ali1234> which is?
[14:01] <directhex> ali1234, pwgen passwords are made of syllables, so they can be spoken out loud & memorized FAR more easily than random arrays of characters
[14:01] <ali1234> not if you use -s
[14:01] <directhex> well, yes, that's true
[14:01] <directhex> but... don't
[14:01] <bigcalm> Hehe
[14:01] <bigcalm> It's for IPSec pre-shared keys
[14:01] <bigcalm> Not something that's going to be spoken, ever
[14:02]  * mgdm uses apg
[14:02] <mgdm> mainly because I heard of it before pwgen
[14:02] <bigcalm> mgdm: a 3 letter password is rather insecure
[14:02]  * bigcalm h4x0r5 mgdm
[14:02] <mgdm> well done :P
[14:03] <bigcalm> That took a lot of damn effort to type
[14:03] <ali1234> how do you set up a user so that they have no password and can only be accessed using su or sudo?
[14:03] <directhex> --disabled-password param to adduser?
[14:04] <bigcalm> Set their shell to /bin/false ?
[14:04] <directhex> passwd -d
[14:04] <ali1234> bigcalm: no, i still want to su to the used
[14:04] <directhex> er, wait, -d is passwordless
[14:04] <bigcalm> Ah
[14:04] <ali1234> directhex: yeah, i *don't* want passwordless logins - hat's the exact opposite of what i want
[14:04] <directhex> -l
[14:04]  * bigcalm goes back to poking Rackspace
[14:05] <ali1234> directhex: the man pages aren't clear on which is which imo
[14:05] <ali1234> so i settled for a random 64 character password made with -s
[14:06] <mungbean> disk utility says "warning the partition is misaligned by 1024 bytes, this may result in very poor performance"
[14:06] <mungbean> seen that before?
[14:06] <shauno> bigcalm: you probably are looking for <IP_ADDRESS>/30, since if you subnet it, .11 will be your broadcast address - .9 and .10 will be the only usable IPs
[14:07] <bigcalm> shauno: no subnets. It's very specific usage with no future expansion
[14:08] <mgdm> shauno: I had wondered if he was using it for something like tcpwrappers or a firewall or some such
[14:08] <bigcalm> I'll go with the /30
[14:08] <mgdm> so the broadcast address wouldn't actually happen, if you see what i mean
[14:09] <ali1234> does netmask actually have to be all 1s and then all 0s? or can you have say ...1101
[14:10] <shauno> I'm not actually sure if netmask does.  wildcard doesn't, cidr does, netmask I'm unsure of
[14:10] <AlanBell> how do you spell the woman's name that is a bit like "Romain"
[14:10] <mgdm> Cisco (I think) have something that is like the inverse of a netmask, and doesn't need to be contiguous
[14:11] <mgdm> but I can't think what it's called
[14:11] <mgdm> netmask generally speaking though does have to be contiguous
[14:11] <shauno> mgdm, yeah, that's the 'wildcard' one.  eg, /30 would be <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:11] <mgdm> ah, oops
[14:12] <mgdm> A sysadmin friend of mine told me about it once, and I went 'wat'
[14:12] <ali1234> AlanBell: romane?
[14:12] <AlanBell> Romaine doesn't appear to have bounced
[14:13] <mungbean> i hate promary and logical partitions :(
[14:13] <diddledan> netmask doesn't need to be all ones followed by all zeroes - which makes it a bugger if you want to convert it to cidr
[14:13] <shauno> it seems openbsd will accept a non-contiguous netmask, everything else known to man will look at you funny
[14:14] <ali1234> figures
[14:14] <diddledan> for e.g. you could have a netmask of 125
[14:14] <diddledan> <IP_ADDRESS>*
[14:14] <diddledan> which would be evil
[14:14] <mgdm> but why would you do that?
[14:14] <ali1234> just to mess with people?
[14:14] <mgdm> aside from impairment due to drink or drugs
[14:14] <ali1234> i can't think of a good reason
[14:15] <diddledan> to end up with unbalanced address ranges :-p
[14:15] <shauno> you can do some fun stuff if you're brave
[14:16] <AlanBell> so you can split your subnet into odd and even halves
[14:16] <mungbean> "fun" netmasks are a headache
[14:16] <diddledan> AlanBell: bingo
[14:16] <mgdm> ooooh, I remember that
[14:16] <bashrc> Have never really done anythin exotic with netmasks
[14:16] <AlanBell> that is . . inadvisable
[14:16] <mgdm> CCNA course knowledge being dredged up from long-term storage
[14:17] <diddledan> AlanBell: understatement acknowledged
[14:17] <diddledan> or should that be "understatement++"
[14:17] <shauno> eg, say you have 10.0.0.x for siteone-production and 10.0.1.x for siteone-nonprod.  and .2 for sitetwo-production and .3 for sitetwo-nonprod.
[14:18] <shauno> you can aggregate your routes to each site as <IP_ADDRESS>/23 and <IP_ADDRESS>/23, but firewall against <IP_ADDRESS> so the odd-numbered subnets are treated differently
[14:19] <mgdm> shauno: and hire a newbie one day who promptly fails to understand and breaks it :-D
[14:19] <shauno> what's wrong with a little job security ;)
[14:19] <diddledan> mgdm: hint, don't hire n00bs.... hire me instead :-p
[14:19] <bigcalm> Hey, you lot need to stop melting my brain
[14:20] <diddledan> bigcalm: did you get wet again?
[14:20] <mgdm> diddledan: hehe
[14:21] <bigcalm> What's wrong with this line from Rackspace? "Phase 2 Diffie-Hellman Group/PFS (NOT RECOMMENDED (1/2/5/NONE)"
[14:21] <diddledan> bigcalm: unbalanced parentheses?
[14:21]  * bigcalm wants to claw his eyes out
[14:21] <bigcalm> diddledan: spot on
[14:22] <diddledan> I like nesting parentheses in sentences so I end up with a closing )))) - spot the programmer
[14:22]  * bigcalm drums fingers waiting for VPN to be created
[14:22] <mgdm> diddledan: you a fan of Lisp?
[14:22] <diddledan> mgdm: I've never really looked at lisp
[14:23] <mgdm> (started (I (learning (scheme))) at the weekend
[14:23] <diddledan> mgdm: I quite like tcl and obj-c in terms of their syntax however
[14:23] <bigcalm> diddledan: it's confusing when somebody closes a ( with a smiliey :)
[14:23] <shauno> bigcalm: I do that far too often
[14:23] <mgdm> diddledan: I'm not a fan of ObjC, but it's not CFML, which I was looking at earlier
[14:24] <shauno> because ending (this with :)) makes my smiley look disturbed/double-chinned
[14:24] <bigcalm> Hehe
[14:24] <bigcalm> Is it LUG o'clock yet?
[14:24] <diddledan> bigcalm: yeah, I haven't worked out whether to leave the smilie doing a dual purpose smile and close bracket or to put another bracket on and suffer the possibility that an uninitiated might think my smilie was doing something different to what I intended
[14:24]  * bigcalm wants to get out of the office
[14:25] <shauno> it doesn't help that at a glance, (that :)) looks mismatched
[14:25] <diddledan> shauno: smilies need noses dammit! :-)
[14:26] <diddledan> AlanBell: how did you find me on the twitters?
[14:26] <diddledan> :-p
[14:26]  * AlanBell has spies *everywhere*
[14:27] <diddledan> <.<
[14:27] <diddledan> >.>
[14:27] <diddledan> o.o
[14:27] <shauno> search for awkward inuendos, you'll appear in <30 seconds
[14:27] <diddledan> shauno: you love them really
[14:56] <mungbean> just booted 13.10 beta
[14:57] <mungbean> you get smacked in the face with the online shopping stuf
[14:57] <Azelphur> not in xubuntu :D
[14:59] <AlanBell> and not in a remotely useful way either, if you search for example for "socks" in the dash, I get an assortment of songs related to socks, but no actual socks
[15:00] <popey> if i search for socks I get google docks
[15:00] <popey> it rhymes!
[15:00] <mungbean> search for gparted and get katy perry
[15:00] <mungbean> its spam
[15:01] <AlanBell> well the problem is that you think it is an application launcher
[15:01] <AlanBell> super+a is the application launcher
[15:01] <mungbean> my mistake
[15:01] <bigcalm> I was about to try the shopping search in 13.04, but then I remembered that I disabled it as soon as I had the system installed
[15:01] <AlanBell> super is the omniglobaleverything searcher
[15:01] <mungbean> synapse is the launcher
[15:01] <mungbean> that i use the most
[15:01] <bigcalm> Ooooo
[15:01] <bigcalm> I did not know about super + a
[15:02] <mungbean> too late for super+a , installing centos now
[15:02] <bigcalm> And super + f
[15:02] <bigcalm> It makes sense now
[15:02] <bigcalm> But having a hint to use that would have been nice :)
[15:02] <AlanBell> if you hold super for a while it should pop up the hints
[15:03] <mungbean> the BFB is ugly now
[15:03] <AlanBell> if you have a tall enough screen
[15:03] <mungbean> i noticed amazon on the unity bar too
[15:03] <bigcalm> I'm looking forward to see a default icon for AOL
[15:04] <mungbean> worked fast on my laptop though
[15:05] <mungbean> centos 6 is gnome 2 :D
[15:05]  * bigcalm squiees at EmergencyKittens on twitter
[15:06] <mgdm> when our sites are in dev mode all the ads get replaced with placekitten.com
[15:06] <bigcalm> :D
[15:06] <diddledan> omg that's a cutie
[15:06] <bigcalm> I have the kittenify bookmark
[15:07] <mgdm> bigcalm: Oh?I wrote one
[15:07] <mgdm> but it was rather specific
[15:07] <diddledan> mgdm: I try to use placekitten when I can, too
[15:07] <bigcalm> javascript:(function(){fcb=function(d){ktndata=d;var p=document.getElementsByTagName('img');for(var i in p){p[i].width=p[i].width;p[i].height=p[i].height;p[i].src=d.items[Math.floor(Math.random()*(d.items.length))].media.m;}};if(typeof ktndata=='undefined'){var jp=document.createElement('script');jp.setAttribute('type','text/javascript'); jp.setAttribute('src','http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?tags=kitten&tagmo
[15:07] <bigcalm> de=any&format=json&jsoncallback=fcb'); document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(jp);} else{fcb(ktndata);}})()
[15:07] <diddledan> o_O
[15:07] <mgdm> errr
[15:07] <bigcalm> Sorry
[15:07] <diddledan> I was gonna say exactly the same thing, bigcalm
[15:08] <diddledan> it's like you read my mind
[15:08] <bigcalm> :P
[15:08] <bigcalm> Your mind is full of rubbish then ;)
[15:08] <diddledan> lol
[15:08] <mgdm> brain.js
[15:08] <mungbean> today is going slow
[15:08] <Laney> one second per second
[15:09] <bigcalm> 1Hz
[15:09] <diddledan> according to mr spock hours feel like days and minutes feel like hours. it's going to take 2 days to finish repairs to enterprise.
[15:11] <mungbean> centos just splatted my ubuntu bootloader
[15:12] <diddledan> mungbean: I bet you secretly enjoyed the perverse pleasure of that?
[15:12] <mungbean> it was my 12.04 install which i am keeping
[15:13] <mungbean> want triple booty
[15:13] <bigcalm> I wonder if aq is napping
[15:15] <mungbean> can't even boot ubutnu now :(
[15:15] <mungbean> boot-reapri looks handy
[15:16] <mungbean> repair
[15:19] <bigcalm> T- 22 days 23 hours
[15:19] <AlanBell> yay
[15:19] <mungbean> tom clancy is dead?
[15:19] <bigcalm> AlanBell: updated the website is a new photo - the pre-wedding photo shoot with Tony went great
[15:20] <bigcalm> s/is/with
[15:20]  * bigcalm be tired
[15:33] <diddledan> maybe productivity took a dive the moment I discovered emergencykittens on twitters
[15:34] <bigcalm> Oops, sorry
[15:34] <bigcalm> Humm, that account posts more frequently that I expected
[15:35] <diddledan> indeed
[15:35] <diddledan> every time I look at twitters there's a new kitty
[15:38] <AlanBell> O.M.G. the dash is now showing me pre-owned socks on ebay
[15:38] <AlanBell> I did not want to know that this was even a thing
[15:38] <bigcalm> LOL
[15:39] <AlanBell> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Odd-Future-Donut-Socks-/261294778270?pt=US_Men_s_Socks
[15:39] <diddledan> AlanBell: the question is were they owned by a teenager or not
[15:39] <diddledan> eww
[15:51] <mungbean> boot-repair saves the day
[15:58] <bigcalm> Cobblers
[16:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: oh you need some shoes repairing?
[16:07] <bigcalm> davmor2: na, I was thinking of mungbean's boot-repair
[16:08] <bigcalm> T - 22 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes
[16:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: okay so now it's becoming real :)
[16:16] <diddledan> 22 days till saucy?
[16:19] <bigcalm> If 13.10 is released on the last Thursday of the month, then that is only 21 days away
[16:19] <bigcalm> My count down is far more important
[16:20] <bigcalm> Now I need to decide if I am to play badminton on the 24th or not
[16:20] <bigcalm> davmor2: shame that the 23rd isn't a LUG
[16:21] <diddledan> aah, weddings?
[16:21] <bigcalm> diddledan: just the one :P
[16:21] <diddledan> lol
[16:22] <bigcalm> I don't think they would like me having two or more weddings on one day
[16:22] <diddledan> don't fancy the polygamy thing then?
[16:22] <bigcalm> diddledan: I said they, didn't include myself in that :P
[16:22] <diddledan> hehehe
[16:22] <bigcalm> But I think that one marriage is enough for me
[16:22] <popey> !saucy
[16:22] <popey> 17th
[16:23] <bigcalm> Oh, much earlier than I had thought
[16:23] <diddledan> popey: that presupposes that a) I know what the date is today, and b) that I can count. neither of which are certain
[16:24] <diddledan> :-p
[16:54] <popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/dell-xps-13-15-refreshed/
[16:54] <popey> holy bejeezus look at that resolution
[16:54] <MartijnV1S> does that include the dev editions? :)
[16:55] <MartijnV1S> also.. 3200??!?
[16:55] <popey> i wish
[16:55] <popey> i know!
[16:55] <AlanBell> gosh
[16:55] <popey> mad
[16:55] <daftykins> XD
[16:55] <daftykins> i had some really good luck
[16:55] <daftykins> that dead server OS disk of mine? after a night to cool down it functioned for a short time plugged into my desktop!
[16:55] <popey> yay
[16:55] <daftykins> it kept dropping once it warmed up enough, but there was a long enough window to get back what i wanted ^_^
[16:56] <daftykins> although, now i'm seeing some nasty SMART values incrementing on the laptop drive i put in instead :D
[16:57] <daftykins> Hardware ECC recovered, Read Error Rate and Seek Error Rate
[16:57] <daftykins> ooh, Command Timeout is high too
[16:58] <daftykins> it's quite possible it might be worse than just iffy disks...
[17:00] <daftykins> on a completely unrelated note - what would you guys suggest for a backup device to handle 6TB+ of data? :) it'd mostly stay off in storage, so my first thought was tape - but that seems quite expensive just for a drive
[17:02] <popey> how many copies?
[17:03] <daftykins> just the one really
[17:03] <popey> how often?
[17:03] <daftykins> i'd go for a NAS but i'd be concerned about leaving it off in storage most of the time
[17:03] <daftykins> it'd probably only get updated monthly or quarterly
[17:04] <popey> blue ray?
[17:04] <daftykins> a 4 x 4TB NAS appears to be ~750-850 £
[17:04] <ali1234> 300 blu rays yeah
[17:04] <popey> 150 quid for a burner
[17:05] <daftykins> nah optical media isn't reliable enough
[17:05] <popey> ☻
[17:05] <daftykins> plus the time to do it would be ouch
[17:05] <ali1234> if you're worried about the price then i doubt you really need to back up all 6TBs
[17:06] <daftykins> my client wants to :)
[17:06] <daftykins> any thoughts on the NAS that mostly stays off approach?
[17:07] <ali1234> i don't see why it would be a problem
[17:07] <ali1234> nothing else will be anywhere near as cheap and easy
[17:07] <popey> https://www.ohloh.net/p/elementaryos gosh.. 131 years of effort..
[17:07] <popey> how?
[17:08] <daftykins> ali1234: yeah, possibly monthly spinups and checks to keep it happy
[17:09] <popey> https://www.ohloh.net/p/debian hehe 22K years
[17:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: dude who ran SR got caught, BTC price has a serious case of the tanking :(
[17:25] <directhex> daftykins, i built a nas recently.
[17:25] <directhex> Azelphur, so btc prices were inflated by their usefulness to potheads#/ shock, etc
[17:26] <directhex> gah this damn keyboard
[17:26] <Azelphur> directhex: pretty much, that's certainly a factor of their value
[17:27] <AlanBell> gap in the market now then I guess
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> start your own clone
[17:27]  * AlanBell will not be filling it :)
[17:27] <AlanBell> I am shocked it was being run from the USA
[17:28] <Azelphur> yea, a new one will no doubt sprout up
[17:32] <bigcalm> Dad complains about how slow his Windows laptop is getting...
[17:32] <bigcalm> Me: time to make the push to Linux then
[17:32] <bigcalm> Dad: dream on
[17:32] <popey> My neighbour asked me for an ubuntu cd last night to replace windows on another neighbours laptop
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> \
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> \o/ even
[17:35] <popey> ooh!
[17:35] <popey> amazon now do pickup
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> pickup?
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> if you're a seller, you mean?
[17:35] <popey> no, delivery
[17:36] <popey> they leave it at a place - a shop
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> ah, cool
[17:36] <popey> you pick it up
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> bol.com (the biggest Dutch "amazon clone" does that too now)
[17:36] <popey> directhex: whats the thing I need to buy to make xbox controller work on my pc?
[17:36] <popey> wireless gaming receiver?
[17:37] <daftykins> directhex: ah what did you make? the guy already has a 3ware controller based RAID6 file server which the media lives on, (film collection) then there's a 2 x 2TB RAID 1 synology NAS for backup, but now he wants to backup the films too :S
[17:37] <directhex> popey, a wireless xbox controller?
[17:37] <daftykins> popey: yeah wireless transceiver
[17:37] <directhex> popey, yes, let me find you an amazon link
[17:37] <popey> 360 ya
[17:37] <daftykins> or get a wired one
[17:37] <daftykins> the wireless jobs are like £9 on ebay
[17:38] <popey> hmm wired would be cheaper, no?
[17:38] <popey> and would still work on 360?
[17:39] <directhex> popey, i use a wired pad for my pc
[17:39] <daftykins> wireless still does, it just requires the USB dongle job
[17:39] <directhex> popey, it's a massive pain sharing a pad between 360 and pc, as you need to re-sync it each time
[17:39] <popey> ahh
[17:39] <popey> this probably wouldn't move much
[17:39] <popey> so wired makes sense
[17:40] <popey> worth getting an official one?
[17:40] <daftykins> directhex: what do you think about a NAS that only gets powered on once a month/quarter ?
[17:41] <bigcalm> Backups eh?
[17:41] <popey> directhex: works with steam on linux?
[17:41] <bigcalm> Is an always running drive more or less likely to crash than a drive that is powered up now and then?
[17:41] <directhex> popey, the wireless doodad is hard to find on its own - or an official one is, anyway
[17:41] <directhex> popey, well, hard to find the real microsoft one new & boxed
[17:41] <directhex> can't find a canonical amazon link, fr'example, just a lot of resellers
[17:42] <popey> amazon have them
[17:42] <popey> Price:£24.99 & Free Delivery with Amazon Prime
[17:42] <popey> oh, wireless doohdah, sorry
[17:42] <directhex> popey, the 360 wireless doodad, and the wired pad, get detected as the same device
[17:42] <bigcalm> popey: I've have had no problems using my wired xbox 360 controller with Linux or Windows
[17:42] <directhex> popey, i use my wired 360 pad for playing on steam/linux
[17:42] <ging> how do i force apt-get to reinstall the repository packages inplace of a custom on?
[17:42] <popey> suhweet
[17:43] <directhex> daftykins, well...... drive selection will be important. don't buy NAS drives!
[17:43] <popey> ging: wat?
[17:43] <daftykins> directhex: i was looking at ones with WD Red 4TBs in
[17:43] <popey> ging: apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
[17:43] <daftykins> 4 x 4TB
[17:43] <directhex> daftykins, do NOT use reds for your use case.
[17:43] <popey> ging: e.g. apt-get install foo=1.0
[17:43] <ging> popey: i tried that doesn't seem to work
[17:43] <popey> ging: it does if you have that version in your repo list
[17:43] <daftykins> directhex: D: how come? only happy running, them?
[17:43] <popey> ging: apt-cache policy packagename
[17:43] <directhex> daftykins, reds are designed for being turned on 24/7 - they basically don't spin down, ever
[17:43] <ging> oh i had a space
[17:44] <popey> yay
[17:44] <ging> it works now thank popey
[17:44] <directhex> daftykins, as opposed to greens, which will spin down instantly given the opportunity, and are *usually* a terrible NAS drive as a result
[17:44] <popey> ging: cool
[17:45]  * bigcalm slithers off to the LUG
[17:45] <daftykins> directhex: yeah i only get WD RE's normally
[17:46] <directhex> daftykins, i built a 10-drive synology recently from a combination of wd reds, seagate nas, and hitachi ultrastar
[17:46] <daftykins> directhex: do you think tape would be a good idea instead?
[17:46] <daftykins> intentionally mixed?
[17:46] <directhex> daftykins, yeah... mitigates the risk of bad batches a little
[17:47] <directhex> daftykins, tape......... well, yes, it's a better system for your use, but consumer tape is dead, and enterprise tape has a very high startup cost
[17:47] <daftykins> cool :)
[17:47] <directhex> blu-ray?
[17:47] <directhex> daftykins, used to have a 128 node cluster with ibm deathstars in......... lot of disk replacements to do on that
[17:47] <daftykins> surely BDs would have a weak lifespan in storage
[17:47] <daftykins> haha nice
[17:48] <directhex> daftykins, what kind of lifespan are you after?
[17:49] <directhex> http://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq/13-disc-longevity-handling-storage-and-disposal#13.2
[17:50] <daftykins> *click*
[17:56] <dwatkins> and this is why I copy the data to my NAS from them
[17:56] <daftykins> dwatkins: huh?
[17:56] <daftykins> oh from optical media
[17:57] <daftykins> well we're talking backup *of* a NAS atm :D
[17:57] <dwatkins> oh sorry, hadn't read back
[17:57] <daftykins> np!
[17:57] <daftykins> my client wants to backup his 6TB+ (growing) of film collection
[17:57] <dwatkins> in my experience, the best way to backup a NAS is to another NAS or a hard disk that's then turned off until the next backup.
[17:57] <daftykins> i'm debating the best plan
[17:57] <daftykins> yeah, i'm just concerned about one remaining off
[17:57] <dwatkins> stiction, yeah
[17:57] <daftykins> it might get updated monthly or quarterly at best
[17:58] <dwatkins> if you really want active monitoring of a storage array, there are options such as Panasas' concept of a node for each disk.
[17:59] <dwatkins> they run a derevation of BSD on each blade, and the disks and data are checked continuously.
[18:00] <dwatkins> as you can guess, they're a bit expensive
[18:00] <daftykins> well the live 3ware driven one emails me Friday nights with the verify result :)
[18:00] <daftykins> a potential offline one would live sort of off-site (other building at the other end of the garden) where the other backup devices live
[18:00] <daftykins> and get fired up occasionally to be backed up to / checked on
[18:00] <daftykins> (assuming i go the NAS route)
[18:01] <dwatkins> a backup isn't a backup until it's been verified, as you are no doubt aware
[18:01] <dwatkins> is it worth considering "cloud" options?
[18:01] <daftykins> because his existing array is a bit old now, i've had a lot of the WD RE 2TBs die on me
[18:01] <daftykins> a friend mentioned amazon iceberg or something?
[18:01] <dwatkins> I have 3TB disks in my 4-bay Synology DS-413j, it's only 6 months old.
[18:02] <daftykins> don't quite fancy uploading 6TB over 2Mb though D:
[18:02] <dwatkins> yeah, depends how often the data changes, I guess.
[18:02] <daftykins> it's mostly safeguarding against the hours we paid a kid to rip all the DVDs to disk
[18:03] <daftykins> i think his ex-wife stole the physical collection too! :>
[18:03] <dwatkins> bah
[18:03] <dwatkins> how about a setup with four disks in a PC, mirrored or somesuch?
[18:04] <daftykins> well the cheapest disk-based approach may be to buy a few, plug them into the 3ware controller, copy over then remove and store
[18:04] <daftykins> *or* upgrade the existing 8 x 2TB, then store the old disks
[18:04] <dwatkins> yeah, although there's no additional redundancy, that should be okay
[18:05] <dwatkins> storing the old disks is fine until they stop working, but by then 6 TB of space should be really cheap ;)
[18:05] <daftykins> yeah and they're kinda flaky already
[18:05] <daftykins> kept replacing the WD2002FYPS with WD2003FYYS under warranty
[18:06] <daftykins> that was when i lost 4 in a short space of time at one point
[18:06] <dwatkins> I just hope I don't lose more than one disk at a time.
[18:06] <daftykins> hehe
[18:06] <daftykins> 8 bay and RAID6 was too pricey?
[18:06] <dwatkins> Panasas arrays have an option to allow for 2 disks to fail.
[18:06] <dwatkins> yeah, the 4-bay Synology was expensive enough.
[18:07] <daftykins> *nod*
[18:07] <daftykins> my own personal 6 x 1TB RAID5 is 6 years old now
[18:07] <dwatkins> perhaps I'll buy another couple disks and put them in a spare PC to have another copy of the 8 TB array.
[18:07] <daftykins> all disks out of warranty, so not quite so safe
[18:08] <dwatkins> previously, I used three disks in USB enclosures, so the NAS was a step up for me.
[18:08] <daftykins> actually come to think of it, maybe the cheapest backup is just a handful of single disks?
[18:08] <daftykins> 4 x 3TB perhaps
[18:08] <dwatkins> indeed, make a volume out of them
[18:08] <daftykins> well not even that, just leave them as singles
[18:08] <daftykins> and spread the data, 4 x 3TB could allow for 2 copies to start with
[18:08] <dwatkins> ah yes, that would work, split them alphabetically or something
[18:08] <daftykins> maybe mix brands too
[18:09] <dwatkins> yeah, and compare the md5sums periodically
[18:09] <dwatkins> or just mirror them
[18:09] <daftykins> would i want consumer disks then 0o
[18:09] <dwatkins> (with monitoring etc.)
[18:10] <daftykins> sooo many choices
[18:11] <dwatkins> compare the meercat^W prices
[18:12] <dwatkins> ...then choose the one just above the cheapest (that's how I buy white goods for the kitchen)
[18:12] <Myrtti> :->
[18:17] <Myrtti> I was about to show a picture but flickr seems to feel unwell
[18:17] <daftykins> aww
[18:17] <daftykins> have some stern words with it, Myrtti
[18:18] <Myrtti> "
[18:18] <Myrtti> Bad, bad panda!
[18:18] <Myrtti> Come on. We want photos.
[18:18] <Myrtti> We’re aware of the problem and are fixing it. Thanks for your patience. "
[18:18] <Myrtti> ok then.
[18:18] <Myrtti> no flickr for yooooo
[18:19] <daftykins> d'aww
[18:19] <daftykins> what treat were we in for?
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> Too many people used up their terabyte??
[18:25] <Myrtti> daftykins: massive meerkat
[18:25] <Myrtti> I think it's agent Maya if I'm not totally mistaken
[18:26] <daftykins> 0o
[18:26] <Myrtti> (dsample works for CTM)
[18:26] <Myrtti> no, still won't work
[18:28] <Myrtti> http://www.meetup.com/Agile-Peterborough/photos/12078592/185878742/#185921582 has some photos tho
[18:28] <Myrtti> of the meerkats, not just him
[18:29] <daftykins> :D
[18:30] <Myrtti> apparently they're reeeeeaally annoying to try to fit into a car :-D
[18:30] <daftykins> lmao
[18:30] <daftykins> i can see that
[18:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: for bonus points, it seems like mtgox is blocking withdrawals \o/
[18:33] <Azelphur> I have 15 BTC trapped
[18:33] <ali1234> they've been doing that forever
[18:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: BTC withdrawals, not fiat
[18:33] <ali1234> yeah
[18:33] <Azelphur> o.O
[18:34] <ali1234> not sure why you would even want to withdraw it though i mean what are you going to do with it?
[18:34] <Azelphur> have it not be in mtgox because I don't particularly trust them atm
[18:34] <ali1234> ...why did you leave it in there then?
[18:34] <Azelphur> well 5 of it I forgot I even had
[18:35] <Azelphur> and the other 10 I deposited to sell, but then decided against it
[18:36] <ali1234> so how low do we think it's gonna go?
[18:36] <directhex> i assume you can withdraw in magic cards, from the magic the gathering online exchange?
[18:37] <Myrtti> here we go then, Agent Maya https://secure.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/9789747666/
[18:38] <daftykins> hehehe
[18:48] <AlanBell> what do we compare it to?
[20:12] <AlanBell> is an ipod shuffle going to work with Ubuntu?
[20:12] <popey> depends which generation
[20:14] <AlanBell> a new one
[20:15] <popey> almost certainly not
[20:16] <mungbean> how long was the giffgaff outage tonight?
[20:16] <mungbean> couldn't make calls around 5.45pm
[20:16] <mgdm> you sure it was giffgaff? Could have been their network, could have been the cell you were connected to, etc etc
[20:16] <mungbean> was GG
[20:17] <mungbean> happened last friday all day too
[20:17] <mungbean> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Service-Updates/Calls-and-texts-failing-2-Oct-2013/m-p/10088973#M82657
[20:17] <mungbean> was completely out earlier, still intermittent
[20:19] <mungbean> 60 pages of whingeing forumites
[20:19] <mungbean> since 4,30pm , not bad going
[22:00] <AlanBell> popey: I ended up getting a cheap knockoff that will work better
[22:01] <diddledan> AlanBell: ipod?
[22:01] <diddledan> or did I miss something?
[22:02] <AlanBell> yeah, was thinking about a shuffle for eldest offspring
[22:02] <AlanBell> ended up getting a fake nano
[22:02] <AlanBell> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140942548640
[22:07] <popey> wonder what connector it really has
[22:08] <AlanBell> yeah, that is an oddly wide thing, I would expect it only has a couple of pins connected and is a fairly normal USB connector
[22:09] <AlanBell> you get what you pay for, but if you are purchasing something that has a reasonable probability of being left on a bus then it is best not to pay too much
[22:09] <AlanBell> (some people leave them on Eurostar)
[22:21] <dwatkins> my nephew left his iphone in IKEA
[22:28] <popey> ☻
[22:31] <Azelphur> Anyone have any recommendations for running a mail server setup for a small business?
[22:31] <Azelphur> so, few employees, with email
[22:42] <Azelphur> I think the Ubuntu community documentation on the subject is outdated. :<
[22:45] <ali1234> what do you mean by "mail server"?
[22:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: the full whack, including webmail
[22:46] <ali1234> outlook i guess
[22:47] <Azelphur> nope.
[22:47] <Azelphur> xD
[22:48] <ali1234> outsource it
[22:49] <Azelphur> roundcube has been recommended on a different channel, looks like it'll do :)
[23:30] <directhex> Azelphur, sogo for webmail & calendaring. postfix/dovecot for mail back-end
[23:37] <Azelphur> SoGo actually looks cool too
[23:39] <Azelphur> liking the calendar, most of the way in with roundcube though so will keep that in mind as an alternative :)


[13:54] <YoBoY> hi
[13:58] <dholbach> hey hey
[13:58] <philipballew> hello YoBoY
[13:58] <dholbach> who wants to join in on the hangout?
[13:59] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-country-teams for notes
[14:00] <YoBoY> dholbach, why not, but I don't know if I will talk ;)
[14:13] <rickspencer3> o/
[14:16] <airurando> can people not join two teams on the LTP?
[14:19] <dholbach> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
[14:19] <dholbach> airurando, want to join in as well?
[14:19] <YoBoY> bonjour rickspencer3
[14:20] <rickspencer3> bonjour YoBoY
[14:20] <airurando> dholbach: no thanks I'm happy in here
[14:20] <YoBoY> airurando, yes you can be on two teams
[14:22] <airurando> YoBoY: would it not be easy to ask people in adjacent locos to join both so that events in both areas would be available to them?
[14:24] <YoBoY> don't know ^^ I think people in that case are already doing that (not joining the locoteams but register to the different informations sources like ML, facebook, loco portal, …)
[14:45] <airurando1> if the LoCo Team weekly Hangout kicks off (and I hope it does) where will this be announced and advertised?
[14:46] <YoBoY> I was not very helpfull ^^"
[14:46]  * dholbach hugs YoBoY
[14:46] <dholbach> airurando1, definitely on the loco-contacts list, probably on the fridge?
[14:46] <dholbach> I don't know
[14:46] <YoBoY> I think this can be anounced on the loco council blog and promoted on the fridge
[14:46]  * YoBoY hugs dholbach
[14:46] <dholbach> maybe philipballew can take note to spread the news as far as possible :)
[14:47] <dholbach> YoBoY, do you have good ties to the french translators?
[14:47] <dholbach> I could need some help with some unreviewed strings in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ ;-)
[14:47] <dholbach> basically the whole guide is translated into French!
[14:47] <YoBoY> dholbach, yes, sure, why ? :)
[14:48] <YoBoY> ok, you want me to HL them to review this quickly ? :D
[14:48] <airurando> thanks dholbach, YoBoY and philipballew
[14:48] <philipballew> thank you as well airurando
[14:49] <dholbach> YoBoY, I mean it's not urgent - I just saw that the translations are all there and that it would be nice if we could get the level of completeness up to >= 70%
[14:49] <dholbach> because then we can publish it and put it into the archive :)
[14:50] <YoBoY> ok :) I'll send them an email to review that
[15:01] <lool> hangout URL?
[15:02] <dholbach> anyone else who wants to join in?
[15:02] <cjwatson> yes please
[15:02] <beuno> I can join if there are any myapps questions
[15:03] <beuno> not sure that there will though
[15:03] <cjwatson> well, your answer is "not for 13.10", right? :)
[15:03] <dholbach> beuno, I guess we can ping you
[15:03] <elopio> dholbach: I want to join.
[15:03] <dholbach> anyone else?
[15:03] <beuno> I'll listen in
[15:03] <beuno> cjwatson, you know me so well!
[15:04] <dholbach> notes are here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-qml-extensions
[15:04] <cjwatson> I'll be slightly laggy at first, probably, doing a somewhat bandwidth-intensive bit of LP testing
[15:05] <alecu> has it started yet?
[15:05] <gatox_> alecu: it seems not
[15:06] <elopio> it's starting.
[15:06] <alecu> yay
[15:06] <dholbach> :-D
[15:06] <dholbach> please help taking notes
[15:08] <jdstrand> huh, I only have audio
[15:08] <dholbach> I can see Zoltan just fine
[15:10] <gatox_> QUESTION: how is going to be handled when i want to install an app that depends on some qml plugin to be installed but that plugin is not part of the system by default?
[15:11] <cjwatson> I think we'll get to that
[15:12] <dholbach> can somebody help taking notes? :)
[15:13] <sergiusens> jdstrand: I ran into that a bit, browser issue
[15:13] <jdstrand> dholbach: weird, it is black here. video worked in the previous session
[15:13] <sergiusens> gatox_: that's the topic of discussion :-)
[15:13] <dholbach> anyone else with the same problem as jdstrand^?
[15:13]  * jdstrand restarts the browser
[15:14] <jdstrand> that worked
[15:14] <jdstrand> weird
[15:14] <dholbach> yeah, weird
[15:16] <jdstrand> yes-- the reverse domains could allow for sharing between app developers in apparmor too
[15:17] <jdstrand> it would require work in click-apparmor and possibly an update to the security manifest (needs to be discussed, but we designed it so this should be possible in the future)
[15:17] <cjwatson> right
[15:37] <alecu> QUESTION: perhaps we can also list the contras to having extensions?
[15:38] <alecu> like dependency issues
[15:38] <alecu> (dll hell)
[15:38] <dobey> writing c++ and compiling it for multiple archs
[15:40] <doko> cjwatson, are qml extensions built using qmake, or cmake?
[15:41] <dobey> yes
[15:41] <dobey> doko: some use qmake, some use cmake; depends on who writes it and what system they prefer
[15:41] <bzoltan> dobey: doko:99.99% qmake
[15:41] <doko> hooray
[15:42] <alecu> yay
[15:42] <bzoltan> dobey: doko: as 99.98% comes from Qt
[15:42] <cjwatson> doko: aha, you're here
[15:42] <dobey> bzoltan: right. that's probable to change when people who aren't Qt write some
[15:43] <cjwatson> doko: how did you get on with the multiarch stack for qml extensions?
[15:43] <bzoltan> dobey:  maybe
[15:43] <cjwatson> I know you got partway up that stack but I couldn't report on how far
[15:43] <dobey> do we want to shove libraries in the click packages of things that depend on them?
[15:44] <cjwatson> that's going to be the reality for 13.10, for things not in the base sdk
[15:44] <doko> cjwatson, never touched it
[15:44] <dobey> it just sounds like it will be a horrible pain if any of those libraries have security updates that need pushed out
[15:45] <cjwatson> it will
[15:45] <alecu> dobey: our security model depends on the container. The apps are very restricted on what they can do\
[15:45] <cjwatson> but there's not much we can do for 13.10
[15:45] <cjwatson> doko: huh, I thought it was on your plate
[15:45] <cjwatson> doko: didn't you do some work on qt multiarch metadata?
[15:46] <doko> no, that was making unity & friends cross-buildable
[15:47] <wolfslord> what about using plain github repositories together with a package repository or list? Something like npm, or Composer
[15:47] <cjwatson> doko: maybe there was a communications problem.  I'll talk to Steve, I think we need to budget time for this somewhere
[15:48] <sergiusens> lool: GoogleTalkPlugin makes my fans go wild
[15:51] <netcurli> but right now you have to tweak things to get other libraries that get linked to it
[15:52] <lool> sergiusens: eh
[15:52] <dholbach> PPAs might be a problematic in terms of work-flow, as people will have to set up GPG keys, sign up to Launchpad, upload the keys and stuff
[15:54] <cjwatson> OTOH the overarching design is that this is for a minority of developers
[15:56] <dholbach> mh, it'd be interesting to hear from the app competition how many folks used c++ code
[15:57] <alecu> dholbach: gatox_ used c++ for his apps
[15:58] <alecu> (or at least, he wanted to use c++ for oauth, not sure if he moved forward with it)
[15:59] <dobey> alecu: one shouldn't need to, for plain oauth, if using online-accounts, i think
[16:00] <alecu> dobey: he wanted to login against his custom web site, and there's no UOA for it
[16:00] <alecu> dobey: and making a UOA plugin for it sounded like overkill
[16:01] <dobey> alecu: making a UOA plug-in for normal oauth is pretty easy. and UOA is the way to add accounts to use on the system
[16:01] <dobey> alecu: apps aren't supposed to be doing their own account management, afaik
[16:01] <dobey> anyway, session is over :)
[16:02]  * dobey goes to different room