[01:48] <Unit193> Regarding https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2020-May/018679.html, I actually ran into this issue between Debian unstable and Ubuntu Bionic as well.  I ended up backporting 1.3.0
[06:03] <wgrant> doko, kanashiro, mitya57, RAOF: I've downgraded kernel and firmware (but not qemu) on the riscv64 buildds and retried some affected builds, and it looks promising so far. I've also been able to repro the qtbase-opensource-source gcc segfault on focal on real hardware with 5.4, so it does seem likely it's a kernel regression.
[08:09] <cpaelzer> rbasak: new fun with git-ubuntu on qemu
[08:10] <cpaelzer> rbasak: my special edge-cases  keep on coming it seems
[08:10] <cpaelzer> rbasak: newer releases work fine it seems, but historically there was some mismatch between git based on salsa and git-ubuntu imports
[08:10] <cpaelzer> rbasak: that sometimes led to mismatches and is resolved in newer releases
[08:10] <Unit193> cpaelzer: Stop being a corner case, then! :P
[08:11] <cpaelzer> rbasak: but we might face something like it again due to git submodules
[08:11] <cpaelzer> Unit193: that isn't a problem - rbasak is happy to settle the corner-cases with me instead of later on a wider user group :-)
[08:12] <Unit193> cpaelzer: Hah, sorry in case the humor doesn't carry over.  I've hit some weird corner cases in things too, it's pretty nifty when you can find a bug like that and get it fixed. :)
[08:12] <cpaelzer> np, the humor carried over
[08:14] <cpaelzer> rbasak: repro should be 1. check out qemu bionic-devel 2. dpkg-buildpackage -S -nc -d - it will fail complaining about a mismatch between tarball and source in qemu.git/ui/keycodemapdb/..git
[08:14] <cpaelzer> that is a git submodule - part of git-ubuntu import (e.g. I get it restored when I git checkout .) and can be resolved by rm'ing the file before build
[08:45] <ackk> xnox, hi, is there anything I have to do to progress https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/1877973 or will it just get picked up at some point?
[08:55] <mitya57> wgrant: thanks! qtbase is building for 5 hours and has not failed yet :)
[09:23] <wgrant> Downgraded just the kernel on hardware, and my test case has been running for 25 minutes now, whereas it previously failed in 10-600s reliably.
[10:12] <cpaelzer> rbalint: hi, I've done the identificationa nd driving of a journald issue in focal in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1875708
[10:13] <cpaelzer> rbalint: I think all the prep is done, next step would be backporting to focal and pushing it there with the next update
[10:13] <cpaelzer> in the past that part was doen by xnox usually grouping things with a bunch of others in his queue - would now you do such and I can "pass" the bug over to you?
[10:47] <ddstreet> cpaelzer i upload the majority of systemd srus, i can include yours if it's ready, i'm watching your bug
[10:49] <cpaelzer> ddstreet: it is ready upstream
[10:49] <cpaelzer> I didn't look into doing a backport yet and how complex or not that might be
[10:50] <cpaelzer> different topic - did the arm builders just have some hard reset - I see builds in failed state but no build log
[10:50] <cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4062/+build/19301601
[10:50] <cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4062/+build/19301602
[10:50] <cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/builders doesn't look like all would be gone ...
[10:55] <rbalint> cpaelzer, ddstreet  i kept an eye on LP: #1875708, it missed last upload to groovy, but good to go in next one, thanks for driving it and for the heads-up
[10:56] <ddstreet> ack rbalint, and there's a version in focal-proposed that should go out next week, i think it only needs backporting to focal so can go into the next one
[10:57] <rbalint> ddstreet, cool, thanks
[10:57] <ddstreet> i can push to focal once you've got in groovy.  thanks!
[10:57] <cpaelzer> thank you ddstreet and rbalint - so I can keep 1875708 to you then to be grouped with the next uploads \o/
[10:58] <cjwatson> cpaelzer: #launchpad
[10:58] <cjwatson> (it is known)
[12:05] <kanashiro> wgrant: thanks! ruby2.7 migrated to the release pocket :)
[12:05] <wgrant> kanashiro: Great. Sorry about that.
[12:05] <wgrant> I have a kernel bisect to look forward to tomorrow.
[12:06] <kanashiro> np
[12:12] <xnox> ackk:  you can ping AA => ~ubuntu-archive team members, i.e. sil2100 vorlon RAOF doko
[12:15] <ogra> AA ... the anonymous archivists ...
[12:34] <rbasak> cpaelzer: on qemu and ..git, that's expected I believe
[12:34] <rbasak> git cannot store anything called .git found in the source tree in general, so it must be stored escaped
[12:35] <rbasak> If you use dpkg-buildpackage directly then you won't get that unescaped
[12:35] <rbasak> The intention is that "git ubuntu build" would do the correct unescaping. I'm not sure if that's implemented yet. But it's not an issue from the importer end.
[12:35] <cpaelzer> rbasak: the problem is that the decision how to "not store" it seems to be different
[12:35] <cpaelzer> rbasak: you stored it as ..git while the tarball doesn't have it at all
[12:36] <cpaelzer> so on build it complains that there is a ..git it doesn't know
[12:36] <rbasak> The extracted source tree must have .git - otherwise there wouldn't have been anything to escape at import time
[12:37] <rbasak> But yes - if .git gets renamed to ..git, then from the perspective of dpkg-source it'll be a new directory not present in the orig tarball and you'll get a complaint
[12:37] <rbasak> This escaping has been present for years, BTW. It's not a new thing.
[12:38] <rbasak> Oh
[12:38] <rbasak> But I did fix a bug in it not too long ago
[12:39] <rbasak> cpaelzer: I think it's an error for Debian to be uploading source packages with .git in them
[12:39] <rbasak> Even if it's a submodule reference thing
[12:40] <rbasak> If the process for generating the source package from git before upload could be adjusted not to do that, then that'd fix the problem for you maybe?
[12:41] <rbasak> Because otherwise the result simply cannot be imported back into git, since git will not accept an entry called .git
[12:45] <cpaelzer> rbasak: it seems it was a recent upload by mdeslaur that did this
[12:45] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I'm usually working of git-ubuntu (whichi didn't have .git or ..git) but I expect he would work of the source package
[12:45] <cpaelzer> rbasak: he then has got the .git as it is in the tarball
[12:46] <cpaelzer> and on re-import it became ..git
[12:46] <cpaelzer> see git diff import/1%2.11+dfsg-1ubuntu7.22..import/1%2.11+dfsg-1ubuntu7.23 -- ui/keycodemapdb/
[12:46] <cpaelzer> that is why I only see this "recently"
[12:49] <rbasak> cpaelzer: in the reimport that gives me no results. Could you pastebin what you see please? But I'm still puzzled as the orig tarball is the same for both. So git-ubuntu should see the same situation for both versions.
[12:50] <rbasak> What's in your source tree in !debian, for a "3.0 (quilt)" package, should be unconnected to what ends up in the built source package assuming your source package build succeeds
[12:50] <rbasak> Because on extraction that part of the source tree will come from the orig tarball and nowhere else.
[12:51] <cpaelzer> rbasak: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xQV7m5GfGZ/
[12:52] <cpaelzer> commit 9514499ffce37066c0048f543b33d9ec01ef5cc4 (tag: reimport/import/1%2.11+dfsg-1ubuntu7.22/0, tag: import/1%2.11+dfsg-1ubuntu7.22)
[12:52] <cpaelzer> commit 9360dd8574d10d92b62742d9cbb09e9c2274296e (tag: import/1%2.11+dfsg-1ubuntu7.23)
[12:53] <rbasak> Right I see https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/diff/ui/keycodemapdb/..git?h=9360dd8574d10d92b62742d9cbb09e9c2274296e thanks
[12:55] <rbasak> cpaelzer: you're still looking at the previous import tree I think?
[12:56] <rbasak> That change came from the bugfix I believe - not anything Marc did or didn't do
[13:08] <cpaelzer> rbasak: well formerly it wasn't important and therefore worked
[13:08] <cpaelzer> rbasak: now it is imported as ..git and breaks on buildpkg
[13:09] <cpaelzer> so "correctly" importing made it worse in this particular case :-/
[13:09] <rbasak> cpaelzer: that sounds right :-/
[13:09] <ahasenack> what if .git isn't imported at all?
[13:09] <cpaelzer> which is as it was before
[13:09] <ahasenack> dpkg knows how to ignore its presence
[13:10] <rbasak> ahasenack: theoretically a source package build might depend on its presence
[13:10] <rbasak> cpaelzer: could you use -I..git?
[13:10] <ahasenack> I've seen builds break because they *see* it
[13:10] <cpaelzer> rbasak: but it won't get that as it is only ..git not .git it was depending on
[13:10] <ahasenack> i.e., they assume they are in a devel environment
[13:10] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: yes I've seen the same
[13:10] <rbasak> cpaelzer: "git ubuntu build" would then round-trip it correctly
[13:12] <cpaelzer> I can work around it, but perception wise loosing the ability to dpkg-buildpackage out of a git-ubuntu checkout is a loss for me
[13:13] <ahasenack> specially since git ubuntu build was almost removed from the snap
[13:13] <cpaelzer> and I don't want it back :-)
[13:14] <cpaelzer> I want the normal paths to work
[13:16] <rbasak> cpaelzer: I don't see any workaround that doesn't result in some source package I could construct that would then break even with a fully implemented "git ubuntu build".
[13:17] <rbasak> cpaelzer: can you convince upstream to stop shipping .git in their release?
[13:17] <rbasak> cpaelzer: or configure dpkg-buildpackage to use -I..git, assuming that works?
[13:17] <ahasenack> how does gbp or dgit import such a package?
[13:17] <ahasenack> (obvious question)
[13:18] <rbasak> I assume they drop the .git
[13:18] <rbasak> Which is fine if you're the package maintainer, because you're in a position to fix your build if dropping .git causes a problem
[13:18] <rbasak> But git-ubuntu doesn't have that luxury
[13:18] <ahasenack> isn't it more surprising to fine a ..git directory?
[13:18] <ahasenack> find
[13:19] <rbasak> It's more surprising to have a build from "git ubuntu build" fail when it succeeds otherwise from the archive.
[13:19] <ahasenack> hm, no, git ubuntu build has many bugs :)
[13:19] <ahasenack> it's surprising when it works ;)
[13:19] <ahasenack> unless you mean a future git ubuntu build
[13:19] <rbasak> A fully implemented "git ubuntu build" with bugs fixed :)
[13:19] <rbasak> Yes
[13:20] <rbasak> I'm avoiding having the import broken by design
[13:20] <ahasenack> and these are not going to be addressed soon
[13:20] <ahasenack> the build bugs
[13:20] <rbasak> Very few packages even have a .git AFAIK
[13:21] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: qemu_4.2.orig.tar.xz does not have a .git
[13:21] <ahasenack> is it a new upstream version that has it?
[13:21] <rbasak> It is a new development that .git is found in an upload that isn't the main .git repository
[13:21] <cpaelzer> no new versions are already good
[13:22] <cpaelzer> it was Bionics 2.11 that has the issue
[13:23] <ahasenack> qemu_2.11+dfsg.orig.tar.xz has it in a subdirectory,
[13:23] <ahasenack> $ find . -name .git
[13:23] <ahasenack> ./ui/keycodemapdb/.git
[13:23] <ahasenack> is that it?
[13:25] <rbasak> That's it
[13:29] <cpaelzer> yep
[13:29] <cpaelzer> as I said I can work around it
[13:29] <cpaelzer> I was mostly wondering why it now shows up
[13:29] <cpaelzer> but it seems we can only decide to break some or some oter packages
[13:30] <cpaelzer> then being correct on import seems to be the better choice and we can keep things as-is
[13:32] <rbasak> Thanks
[13:33] <rbasak> cpaelzer: so on the other thing
[13:33] <rbasak> The qemu reimport didn't adopt your latest upload tags
[13:33] <rbasak> AFAICT, it's because of the empty directory thing
[13:33] <rbasak> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FVnHFDymV4/ is the difference between the import and the upload tag
[13:34] <cpaelzer> rbasak: yes I have seen that it didn't adopt my history
[13:34] <cpaelzer> rbasak: the old packaging around roms was very bad
[13:34] <rbasak> Is that different to before?
[13:34] <cpaelzer> rbasak: that is why I went some lengths to clean it up
[13:34] <cpaelzer> also mjt did on the debian side improve rom handling
[13:35] <rbasak> cpaelzer: does this mismatch any of your expectations from the reimport?
[13:35] <cpaelzer> rbasak: consider anything starting with roms/ <Eoan as "probably awkward"
[13:35] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I'd be ok wit hthe re-import as-is
[13:35] <rbasak> OK thanks
[13:36] <rbasak> So we got some talking points around edge cases but so far the reimports are "expected behaviour" then
[13:36] <rbasak> Please keep an eye out for anything else :)
[13:37] <cpaelzer> will do
[13:57] <ackk> xnox thanks
[15:45] <ackk> sil2100, hi, around?
[16:15] <sil2100> ackk: hey! Yeah, I'm aroundish now
[16:16] <ackk> sil2100, hi, could you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/1877973 when you have time? it's not urgent, though
[16:20] <sil2100> ackk: ok, looking in a few moments o/
[16:21] <ackk> sil2100, thanks!
[17:56] <smoser> ahasenack: can you do an import of squashfs-tools-ng
[18:44] <ahasenack> smoser: importing
[18:48] <ahasenack> smoser: done
[18:55] <smoser> gracias.
[18:58] <gpiccoli> vorlon, xnox - do you know exactly why Ubuntu uses "wait-for-root" as its initramfs approach to..wait for root? Debian has no mention of it...
[18:59] <gpiccoli> instead, Debian relies on script-looping on local stage, which for me, makes sense (and would allow me to fix an issue I'm working hehe)
[18:59] <gpiccoli> Tnx in advance
[19:05] <vorlon> gpiccoli: because it makes the boot faster instead of having to wait for udev settle of random events
[19:05] <vorlon> on systems with significant numbers of unrelated disks
[19:05] <vorlon> what is your case where you need to loop?
[19:07] <gpiccoli> vorlon, thanks! My case is a crypto volume on top of raid1 - currently it does not work. Reason is that cryptroot fails on local-top and panics to shell
[19:07] <vorlon> well, that's surprising to me
[19:07] <gpiccoli> sorry vorlon, I express myselg in an incomplete way hehe
[19:08] <vorlon> because both raid and crypto are meant to be udev-activated, and self-assemble with no need to loop in the main script
[19:08] <gpiccoli> It works! The issue is if a raid1 member is removed
[19:08] <vorlon> ah
[19:08] <gpiccoli> hehe my bad!!
[19:08] <gpiccoli> my idea to fix was to allow cryptroot to fail gently, and let the "xnox's poor man last resort" mdadm script on local-block to start the md array with a missing member...
[19:08] <gpiccoli> then cryptroot (also in local-block) would take over and decrypt the volume
[19:08] <gpiccoli> that..relies on the man page idea of local-block, the it loops
[19:09] <vorlon> so the issue then is that you have both mdadm and cryptroot hooks that you want to be able to interact with the console?
[19:09] <vorlon> why do we not in general allow mdadm arrays to be assembled in degraded mode by default?
[19:09] <gpiccoli> no console involved, I want a "broken" raid1 array (or any mirroring) to be able to mount and continue the boot
[19:10] <vorlon> ok
[19:10] <gpiccoli> it's an option vorlon
[19:10] <vorlon> alright
[19:10] <gpiccoli> to allow the degraded by default, without spinning on local-block script
[19:10] <vorlon> if it's an option, and it's enabled, then I think that ought to be handled inline by the udev rules and not depend on falling through to an initramfs script?
[19:10] <vorlon> xnox: ?
[19:11] <gpiccoli> vorlon, again my bad english! It's a design option, that I could work
[19:11] <gpiccoli> It's not currently an option!
[19:11] <vorlon> ah
[19:11] <gpiccoli> Desculpe vorlon =)
[19:11] <vorlon> well, it's possible that not assembling degraded arrays by default is a deliberate design decision also, but I don't remember
[19:11] <gpiccoli> currently, mdadm tries for 2/3*ROOTDELAY iterations before giving up and degrade-assembly
[19:12] <vorlon> we should at least ensure that the default behavior between initrd and rootfs is similar
[19:12] <gpiccoli> I geuss this is what is currently doing, keeping the consistency
[19:12] <gpiccoli> *guess
[19:14] <gpiccoli> vorlon, the problem that I see with wait-for-root is that it seems to just care with udev, it doesn't give a chance to re-running scripts on local-block
[19:14] <gpiccoli> how about if we do partial waits for root, allowing local-block scripts to re-run in between,
[19:14] <gpiccoli> accouting the total time to not exceeds ROOTDELAY ?
[19:15] <gpiccoli> *accounting
[19:21] <vorlon> gpiccoli: that sounds plausible
[19:23] <gpiccoli> great vorlon, I'll try to work something, let's see xnox opinion also about mdadm default to degrade option hehe
[19:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> Hey! I have asked the OP to provide requested details on the bug report. Can anyone else also test this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1877553
[19:42] <xnox> gpiccoli:  vorlon: the intention is to use udev and assemble all the things, failing that there is a loop to interate things, and failing that there are fail hooks.
[19:42] <xnox> gpiccoli:  vorlon: it is possible, that when we have disigned and implemented the loop + eventual fallbacks, that didn't get integrated into ubuntu properly. As we had still the remains of "just udev activate everything"
[19:42] <vorlon> xnox: so what is the intended /outcome/ if a raid array is missing members but can be assembled in degraded mode?
[19:43] <gpiccoli> I can say this works! ^
[19:43] <xnox> gpiccoli:  vorlon: loop, loop, loop, start degraded, loop, loop, loop
[19:43] <vorlon> what's the loop loop loop?
[19:43] <vorlon> after starting degraded
[19:43] <xnox> i.e. start it degraded, whilst there are still some loops available to assemble things on top of it.
[19:44] <xnox> vorlon:  the loop that interates in the initramfs, trying to assemble/start/find rootfs
[19:44] <gpiccoli> but only works due to a hack I found (from Ben Hutchings) in initramfs-tools
[19:44] <vorlon> why does that require looping instead of udev?
[19:44] <vorlon> xnox: we've basically disabled the loop part of initramfs-tools since forever in Ubuntu
[19:44] <xnox> vorlon:  because we don't have systemd, such that udev can start systemd timer units that assemble things degraded after a delay.
[19:44] <xnox> vorlon:  it's not the old loop part, but a new block-disk loop only.
[19:45] <vorlon> xnox: however, assembling the array degraded should trigger dependent udev events with no further looping required
[19:45] <xnox> which uses udev
[19:45] <xnox> vorlon:  correct. and that's what i expect to happen. Cause after start degraded, that block loop thing calls udevadm trigger/settle, and try any futher hooks.
[19:45] <xnox> gpiccoli:  i guess the question is => does that work on debian? degraded mdadm+crypto?
[19:46] <vorlon> udevadm trigger/settle, instead of wait-for-root
[19:46] <xnox> i think so.
[19:46] <xnox> vorlon:  because that new block-loop, is to support really weird shit like mixing encrypted & non-encrypted PVs in VG, where things jump layers.
[19:46] <xnox> vorlon:  and like nested VGs
[19:46] <gpiccoli> xnox, I don't expect that to work currently due to the first limitation on cryptroot script - it fails on local-top and drops to a shell. With my change, it should work in debian (I can test), but not on ubuntu
[19:47] <vorlon> hmm
[19:47] <gpiccoli> because we don't loop in local-block, instead we use wait-for-root and give-up after a while
[19:47] <xnox> gpiccoli:  ack. i think our crypto script is better than debian's true.
[19:47] <gpiccoli> no, the script is the same hehe
[19:47] <xnox> gpiccoli:  i think you want to open a bug report with details.
[19:47] <gpiccoli> it fails in both currently hehe
[19:47] <xnox> gpiccoli:  against cryptsetup mdadm initramfs-tools
[19:47] <xnox> and we can check what's missing.
[19:48] <gpiccoli> right, I'll do that and propose my change there
[19:48] <xnox> nesting is hard.
[19:48] <xnox> i thought we did well to support "normal stackings" and "degraded stuff" sensibly, but we might be missing some stacks orderings.
[19:48] <gpiccoli> agreed
[19:48] <xnox> i.e. i think 2 LUKS => assembled into RAID1 end up degraded more often than they should.
[19:49] <gpiccoli> tnx xnox and vorlon =)


[05:08] <mup> Bug #1869300 opened: Fails to compose KVM machine with storage from disk pool <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869300>
[16:21] <mup> Bug #1869391 opened: maas should allow downloading of logs from inside the web UI <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869391>
[16:24] <mup> Bug #1869391 changed: maas should allow downloading of logs from inside the web UI <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869391>
[16:27] <mup> Bug #1869391 opened: maas should allow downloading of logs from inside the web UI <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869391>
[16:36] <mup> Bug #1869391 changed: maas should allow downloading of logs from inside the web UI <ui> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869391>
[16:42] <mup> Bug #1869391 opened: maas should allow downloading of logs from inside the web UI <ui> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869391>


[00:06] <smoser> ttx_, 419306
[00:06] <smoser> bug 419306 affects uec/ec2 images
[00:17] <orudie> screen -r
[00:17] <orudie> There is a screen on:
[00:17] <orudie>         16365.pts-5.njnode      (06/09/09 02:01:52)     (Attached)
[00:17] <orudie> There is no screen to be resumed.
[00:17] <orudie> how can i reattach to this screen ?
[00:24] <giovani> orudie: read the manpage -- you've been asking a ton of questions answered in documentation
[00:24] <giovani> screen -dr will detach an attached screen, and resume it on the local terminal
[00:26] <orudie> sorry giovani
[00:26] <orudie> you have been really helpful all day
[00:26] <orudie> :)
[00:26] <orudie> i have done a lot today
[00:26] <orudie> thanks for your help
[01:01] <Alysum> Hi - Ive been looking at this http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/USN-802-2
[01:01] <Alysum> and when I do a $ sudo apt-get install apache2 -s
[01:01] <Alysum> it wants to REMOVE apache2-mpm-prefork libapache2-mod-php5 php5
[01:01] <Alysum> what is going on there ?
[01:01] <Alysum> prefork and php5 are essential
[01:03] <Alysum> anyone?
[01:03] <Alysum> 205 members in this chat room surely someone can help me out lol
[01:04] <Alysum> come on guys
[01:05] <giovani> Alysum: this is a community support channel, it's dinner time in the US, please don't complain that way
[01:06] <Alysum> lol its an international room
[01:06] <giovani> clearly if someone was around who wanted to/could help, they would
[01:06] <giovani> so you complaining that you're not receiving free help in minutes is absurd
[01:06] <giovani> you asked the question literally 2-3 minutes before you started complaining
[01:09] <giovani> can you pastebin the full output from the command you ran?
[01:10] <giovani> uh, wait a second
[01:10] <giovani> this is not an update to 2.0
[01:10] <giovani> it's an update to 2.2
[01:10] <giovani> you seem to be trying to upgrade the wrong packages
[01:11] <slangasek> Alysum: is there a reason you're not using "apt-get upgrade" to install all the applicable security updates?
[01:11] <slangasek> or even "apt-get dist-upgrade" (which is sometimes needed for kernel security updates in particular)?
[01:11] <slangasek> Note that the USN states: "In general, a standard system upgrade is sufficient to effect the necessary changes."
[01:13] <giovani> slangasek: also note that he's upgrading the wrong packages for the USN
[01:13] <giovani> and has disappeared
[01:13] <giovani> after demanding help within minutes
[01:13] <giovani> how courteous
[01:13] <slangasek> he's still in the channel
[01:14] <slangasek> and installing the wrong packages is secondary to running the wrong command entirely
[01:15] <giovani> it's not the "wrong command" to manually upgrade a single package
[01:15] <giovani> rather than upgrading everything
[01:16] <giovani> it may not be a recommended method, but it's definitely used widely in practice
[01:16] <giovani> what is relevant to his question is that he's updating different packages than the USN he's supplying is talking about
[01:16] <slangasek> it's definitely not a method I recommend
[01:16] <slangasek> and if you use the method I do recommend, the problem goes away.
[01:16] <giovani> heh
[01:16] <giovani> except when you want to selectively upgrade packages
[01:17] <giovani> which you do in a production environment
[01:18] <orudie> which port is used by verne.freenode.net ?
[01:18] <giovani> orudie: I don't follow you? -- port 6667 is standard for irc
[01:19] <orudie> giovani, i'm trying to /server add in irssi
[01:19] <orudie> with the following command
[01:19] <Alysum> Im never confident doing upgrades on ubuntu 8.04
[01:19] <cef> btw: to avoid getting the wrong package, I ALWAYS run the standard upgrade with -s (eg: apt-get -s upgrade /or/ apt-get -s dist-upgrade) to see what it wants to install in the way of packages, and then if I want to pick and choose, I have the correct list.
[01:19] <giovani> Alysum: do you run apache2 or apache2.2?
[01:19] <Alysum> as it's a live server - you're worried it will break things
[01:19] <orudie> giovani, /server add -auto -address verne.freenode.net -network freenode
[01:20] <giovani> orudie: ok, and?
[01:20] <Alysum> apache 2.2 Ive just upgraded apache2.2-common and php5
[01:20] <giovani> Alysum: then why are you trying to install apache2?
[01:20] <slangasek> giovani: there is no package called apache2.2 in Ubuntu 8.04 (or elsewhere), 'apache2' *is* the correct package name
[01:20] <orudie> giovani, /server add -auto -address verne.freenode.net -network freenode
[01:21] <orudie> giovani, Irssi: Not enough parameters given
[01:21] <Alysum> yes silly me I should upgrade just the package not the whole apache I realise as it uses worker by default and not prefork
[01:21] <slangasek> Alysum: however, you are more likely to break things by trying to hand-pick parts of the security updates than by installing all the related packages with apt-get dist-upgrade
[01:21] <giovani> orudie: this is not an irssi support channel
[01:21] <slangasek> Alysum: at the very least, that would show you which binary packages the system says should be upgraded
[01:21] <Alysum> a dist upgrade on 8.04 will it upgrade it to 8.10 ?
[01:22] <slangasek> no
[01:22] <cef> Alysum: and if you do want to hand-pick, run a full upgrade in simulation mode (-s, as above) and you will see what it wants to do
[01:22] <Alysum> yes Im familiar with -s
[01:22] <slangasek> "dist-upgrade" means "do an upgrade that allows packages to be installed and removed as necessary to satisfy dependencies"
[01:22] <slangasek> in this case, apt-get upgrade should work also
[01:23] <Psi-Jack> Sam-I-Am: ping!
[01:27] <Alysum> ok Im going to do an upgrade and pray :)
[01:28] <slangasek> well, I certainly advise you to take note of the output and ask more questions if anything you see concerns you
[01:32] <Alysum> ok well it says it will upgrade apache2 and Im using 2.2
[01:32] <slangasek> yes, that's normal
[01:32] <Alysum> doest say anything about removing mpm-prefork which is good
[01:32] <Alysum> most of the packages are stuff I dont use except opsview
[01:33] <Alysum> Im doing an AMI backup anyway
[01:36] <Alysum> Im also confused with mysql-server [5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10] (5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10.2 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty-updates)
[01:37] <Alysum> it's really really 5.0 ?
[01:37] <Alysum> then why is the packaged named 5.1 ?
[01:38] <NCommander> Alysum, long story :-/
[01:38] <slangasek> Alysum: the package name is "mysql-server".  The version number is "5.1.30really5.0[...]" because version numbers have to always be incrementing, so this is one of the few options available for rolling it back when a developer decides the new upstream version isn't ready.
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> Ummm.
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> Yuck!
[01:39] <Alysum> so when it will actually be 5.1 it will be called 5.2 ubuntu? :p
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> That's all I can say about using such a versioning method.
[01:39] <slangasek> Alysum: no, in Ubuntu 9.10 it will be "5.1.37-1ubuntu2". :)
[01:40] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, well, there are epochs which let you use lower version numbers, but it can break syncing packages to Debian.
[01:40] <Alysum> btw when is the next LTS release due ?
[01:40] <slangasek> what you're seeing there is an artifact of a one-time decision to roll back the version
[01:40] <NCommander> Alysum, there are packages with much worse version strings
[01:40] <slangasek> Alysum: 10.04 is slated to be the next LTS
[01:40] <Psi-Jack> Alysum: Well, since the current one us 8.04, I'd say.. 10.04
[01:40] <Alysum> ok
[01:41] <NCommander> Alysum, another one you can get like that is: <IP_ADDRESS>+<IP_ADDRESS>5ubuntu1~hardy1+really<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu2
[01:41] <Alysum> then why isnt that mysql-server upgrade available to 8.04 ?
[01:41] <Psi-Jack> Alysum: Because it's stable as of 8.04
[01:42] <Psi-Jack> Security patches are all that go into LTS
[01:42] <NCommander> Alysum, once a distribution is released, newer versions of packages are not released to it except in very rare cases, or via backports.
[01:42] <Alysum> so the jaunty one isnt as stable?
[01:42] <Alysum> I dont understand why have LTS then lol
[01:42] <Alysum> LTS means more stability and only important upgrades ?
[01:42] <NCommander> Alysum, something like that. The only upgrades in an LTS fix bugs, or security fixes
[01:43] <NCommander> LTSes also are supported for 3 years on desktop, five years on server
[01:43] <NCommander> vs 18 months for normal releases
[01:43] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, which support means almost jack didly squat usually. heh
[01:43] <Alysum> I have 7 ubuntu servers from 8.04LTS, 8.10 to 9.04
[01:43] <slangasek> Psi-Jack: pardon?
[01:44] <Alysum> am I doing the right thing?
[01:44] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, support for an LTS, or support for a stable release
[01:44] <NCommander> Alysum, generally, I'd keep them all on the last LTS unless you need something for a newer version. Don't need to upgade once every six months :-)
[01:45] <Psi-Jack> Which can be a bad thing, not upgrading every 6 months. ;)
[01:45] <Alysum> Im also wondering whether I should go back to Debian so I dont have to upgrade all the time...
[01:45] <NCommander> Alysum, LTS's release on the same timeframe as Debian's normal releases
[01:45] <NCommander> Alysum, just use LTS releases for servers.
[01:45] <slangasek> /roughly/ the same timeframe
[01:46] <Alysum> so 9.10LTS will be similar to Debian 5?
[01:46] <Psi-Jack> 10.04 you mean?
[01:46] <Alysum> sorry yes
[01:46] <NCommander> Alysum, closer to what will be Debian 6
[01:46] <NCommander> Since we branch off sid, and Debian plans to freeze in December
[01:46] <Alysum> well there is no date set for Deb 6
[01:47] <Alysum> so surely 10.04 wont be LTS by then
[01:47] <NCommander> Alysum, the freeze date is going to be December 2009, unless things have hcanged since debconf
[01:47] <Alysum> ok I see
[01:47] <NCommander> Alysum, *sigh*, LTS releases are every two years, or every four releases.
[01:47] <Alysum> ok
[01:47] <NCommander> So 6.06 LTS, 8.04 LTS, 10.04 LTS, 12.04 LTS, etc.
[01:48] <slangasek> there's been no committment to a 12.04 LTS
[01:48] <slangasek> two years is an estimate, not a promise
[01:48] <Alysum> I guess this is not the right place to open a can of worms Ubuntu LTS vs Debian :)
[01:48] <Psi-Jack> I dunno. Personally, I couldn't run the same server exactly specced for 2 full years witout upgrading. That's /very/ long wait times between major important upgrades.
[01:48] <cef> NCommander: actually that's not strictly true.. it's currently that way, and they plan to keep it that way, but it's been acknowledged that it's not a 'hard and fast' rule.
[01:48] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, define important upgrades
[01:49] <Psi-Jack> NCommander: What version of OpenLDAP comes with 8.04?
[01:49] <Alysum> In my case it' just a LAMP server
[01:49] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, 2.4.9
[01:50]  * NCommander had to look it up
[01:50] <Psi-Jack> Precisely, with a very bad version of BerkeleyDB and there's been MAJOR and important changes in OpenLDAP between 2.4.9 and 2.4.17.
[01:50] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, then request a backport
[01:50] <Psi-Jack> Show-stopper issues resolved in between , too.
[01:50] <cef> Psi-Jack: in my case, it's the reverse.. as long as there is security updates, then I'm fine. I've had countless small upgrades break major and important servers before through version creep
[01:51] <Alysum> one thing that is missing in Ubuntu8.04LTS is subversion1.6.1
[01:52] <Psi-Jack> Bleh, it's all about git.
[01:52] <Psi-Jack> One thing that's missing and this looks quite intentional.
[01:52] <Psi-Jack> Is linux-igd for 8.04 specifically.
[01:52] <NCommander> Alysum, 1.5 is available for Hardy
[01:53] <Psi-Jack> linux-igd was in 7.10, 7.04, and is in 8.10, 9.04, but specifically skipped 8.04 outright, and to this day, still no backport exists for it.
[01:53] <Alysum> NCommander:  yes and we want subversion 1.6!
[01:53] <NCommander> Alysum, request a backport for it then :-P
[01:54] <Psi-Jack> And as you said, under rare occasions, backports are made.
[01:54] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, its made when a user requests it, and a backporter ACKs it
[01:54] <NCommander> Psi-Jack, linux-igd was deleted from Hardy intentionally
[01:54] <NCommander> The comment was "unmaintained, broken with current kernel, removed in Debian"
[01:55] <NCommander> A new version was published in Debian after Hardy, and that was auto-imported into Intrepid it seems
[01:59] <Armour> Hi all.. I  am configuring a DNS server, I am not a pro on this. I have seen in many tutorials that people use server.domain.loca.l on the entries for the local zone. I did not use that nomenclature I just used  server.domain. Would that make difference at all?
[02:00] <Bilge> derp
[02:03] <giovani> Armour: nope, it's arbitrary
[02:03] <giovani> .local is an accepted standard though
[02:03] <slangasek> using .local conflicts with the use of mdns
[02:03] <cef> the main thing is you don't want it to clash with anything that's proposed or current
[02:04] <Armour> giovani: I am also setting up the server for LDAP+SAMBA... so maybe .local could be better
[02:04] <slangasek> while this was an arbitrary limitation imposed on the world by the mDNS inventors, it does mean that .local should be avoided in practice for DNS
[02:04] <cef> Armour: might be, simply cos it'll most likely be what the tutorials also use, and avoids config issues
[02:06] <Armour> cef: I see.  I think I will try to go by the book, since this is my first linux DNS I configure
[02:06] <giovani> slangasek: I disagree ... DJ Bernstein is an advocate of using .local in DNS
[02:06] <slangasek> DJ Bernstein is an advocate of all kinds of insane things
[02:06] <giovani> Microsoft also lists it as a best practice for internal networks
[02:06] <giovani> and they're a pioneer of mDNS
[02:07] <giovani> while these clearly aren't RFCs, they aren't negligible either
[02:07] <slangasek> no, those are both negligible
[02:07] <slangasek> the only things that count are a) the RFCs, b) real-world interop problems
[02:07] <giovani> Armour: take your advice from whom you like
[02:07] <slangasek> if you use .local as a DNS domain, you will have interop problems with avahi
[02:07] <Psi-Jack> slangasek: Actually, I had exactly the opposite.
[02:08] <Psi-Jack> I /had/ problems by /not/ having .local in DNS
[02:12] <Armour> all right.... I already have it configured without the .local I been having some resolution problems internally on the network but that might also be a rookie problem. I am going to think it over and maybe I change it to .local
[02:12] <Armour> Thank you all for the quick response
[02:22] <Armour> I changed all to domain.local and got a bad owner name error (check-names)
[02:22] <Armour> so I guess did not like it
[02:33] <orudie> i just set up irssi proxy , how would i connect to it with xchat ?
[02:39] <Psi-Jack> Oi, well that was fun.
[02:39] <Psi-Jack> First my UPS goes nuts and rings out non-stop, then freenode detected I had an open proxy, which I didn't know about.
[04:06] <giovani> Psi-Jack: an unknown open proxy? how'd that happen?
[04:32] <Psi-Jack> giovani: Ehh, installed hapv, and didn't know Debian default config was to have it publically open.
[04:33] <twb> I hate how openssh-server does that, too
[04:33] <twb> I wish debconf would prompt you to optionally add an AllowedUsers list
[04:34] <Psi-Jack> Ugh, I'd hate that, myself. heh
[04:35] <Psi-Jack> Sane safe defaults, are fine, outright open and vulnerable, is not.
[04:35] <twb> Psi-Jack: you would just pick "no, fuck off" which would be the default in debconf
[04:35] <twb> ssh defaults to listening to connects from anywhere, from anyone.  That'd be safe if the system didn't have users on it with stupidly weak, unchanging passwords :-/
[04:36] <Psi-Jack> That's why you setup password policies.
[04:36] <Psi-Jack> That's easy.
[04:36] <twb> True
[04:36] <Psi-Jack> And not openssh's job, either. :)
[04:36] <Psi-Jack> Anyway, I'm tired, and heading off to bed. Night.
[04:37] <twb> Usually the scenario is one server and a bunch of Windows desktops & users, plus one administrative account that we use to ssh into remotely.
[04:37] <twb> I guess nobody has bothered to force the Windows users to have strong passwords on those sites
[04:37] <Psi-Jack> Bleh. I rarely deal in WIndows anymore.
[04:37] <Psi-Jack> Home and Work, small handful of Windows, the rest, Linux and OSX
[04:37] <Psi-Jack> Anyway, I'm off. ;0
[04:54] <twb> Hey, so out of curiosity I tried to apply my LTS desktop build procedure to 9.04, the latest release.
[04:54] <twb> I get this: + auth-client-config -a -p lac_ldap ==> Error in updating the file: 'pam_account' not found
[06:53] <eeguy_> I'm running ubuntu server 9.04 and I'm trying to recompile the latest openldap with openssl support. configure can't seem to find my TLS/SSL no matter what I do. I've recompiled and installed openssl from both tarball, and ubuntu source, using both make install and checkinstall. I always get the errors of: configure: error: Could not locate TLS/SSL package
[06:53] <eeguy_> the two lines before that are 1: checking for SSL_library_init in -lssl... no and 2: checking for ssl3_accept in -lssl... no
[06:56] <twb> eeguy_: the default OpenLDAP package should be compiled with SSL support.
[06:56] <eeguy_> yeah, it's compiled with gnutls
[06:56] <twb> Is this a problem?
[06:57] <eeguy_> which is broken, and has support issues with the openldap project
[06:58] <twb> Have you reported this on launchpad?
[06:58] <eeguy_> I'm pretty sure it's been reported.. I was chatting with a guy on the openldap channel last night that's tried to take this up several times
[06:59] <eeguy_> I have been trying to work with them to get this running... doesn't seem like they like supporting gnutls at all, and  have been forced into it by debian
[07:01] <twb> Debian (and Ubuntu) doubtless use gnutls because it is illegal for them to distribute binaries of openldap that link against openssl.
[07:02] <cef> eeguy_: you've installed the libssl-dev packages?
[07:04] <twb> http://bugs.debian.org/428385
[07:04] <eeguy_> no.. that might be the missing link.. I installed all the other dependencies.   is libssl openssl?
[07:05] <cef> afaik, it's the dev libs you need
[07:07] <eeguy_> I'll give it a shot.. thanks. I've been searching all over for that
[07:20] <Boohbah> twb: and which license prevents that? openssl and openldap are distributed under BSD-style licenses
[07:21]  * Boohbah reads the bug
[07:23] <twb> Boohbah: looks like the problem is that lots of OTHER programs, which are GPL, use openldap and thus link to openssl indirectly.
[08:26] <mattgyver> when booting my computer, it reboots at "Starting Samba Daemons" it just goes into an infinite loop.  Anyone know why?
[08:27] <twb> No, but try putting set -x at the top of /etc/init.d/samba
[08:28] <twb> It might actually finish the samba step and then hang in the next part.
[09:35] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #423579 in amavisd-new (universe) "Spam hangs amavisd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423579
[10:20] <bigbrovar> hi guys am trying to configure sudo so that admin members can only install and upgrade their system and nothing more .. hence sudo will only be used when with apt-get and aptitude
[10:20] <bigbrovar> of cus root user would still have absolute powers :)
[10:41] <acalvo> Hi
[10:41] <acalvo> I want to install the mailman package
[10:41] <acalvo> but I don't want to install apache also, I've a dedicated server with apache
[10:41] <acalvo> is there any chance to just install mailman?
[10:41] <acalvo> or is it any other way to install mailman and point to my mail server instead of the local server?
[10:41] <acalvo> s/local server/localhost
[12:17] <ghostlines> does anyone have any experience recovering mp3 files with foremost?
[12:22] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #423653 in openvpn (universe) "Openvpn + rkhunter + postfix = openvpn client not able to start " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423653
[12:25] <mattgyver> when i try to boot my server, it resets itsself at "Starting Samba Daemons", and goes into an infinite loop.  Any ideas?
[12:53] <acalvo> I want to install the mailman package, but I do not want to install the apache or other web stuff. I want to use another machine which is configured as a web server. Is it any chance to use install only the mailman package? or I can install the mailman package on the web server and point it to use my mail server?
[12:53] <nijaba> Daviey: mir bug #423667 filed
[12:53] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 423667 in ubuntu-server-tips "[MIR] fortunes-ubuntu-server" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423667
[12:54] <nijaba> acalvo: not possible AFAIK.  Mailman web interface is required on the same machine unless I have missed something
[12:56] <acalvo> that's what I've believed
[12:56] <acalvo> so bad then
[13:08] <alexm> acalvo: nijaba is right, mailman needs the CGI and SMTP scripts on the same host
[13:08] <acalvo> ok, thank you both
[13:08] <acalvo> any other software that offers mailing lists?
[13:08] <alexm> sympa
[13:08] <acalvo> maybe with a LDAP plugin?
[13:08] <nijaba> acalvo: check out sympa
[13:08] <nijaba> alexm: :)
[13:08] <acalvo> twice
[13:08] <acalvo> should be good then
[13:08] <acalvo> web dependent too?
[13:09] <alexm> acalvo: and sympa is written in Perl not Python, just in case that is a plus for you ;)
[13:09] <acalvo> it is
[13:09] <nijaba> acalvo: for ldap and mailman, check out: http://nicolas.barcet.com/drupal/fr/mmldap
[13:09] <alexm> it is for me, but I learnt about sympa too late
[13:10] <alexm> acalvo: don't know whether it's web dependent or not
[13:10] <acalvo> I'll check it now
[13:10] <acalvo> and thanks, nijaba, cleanest way to create lists based on ldap searches
[13:10] <acalvo> :D
[13:11] <nijaba> acalvo: been using it since 2005 with no problems so far :)
[13:11] <acalvo> wow
[13:11] <acalvo> sympa depends on a lot more packages!
[13:11] <acalvo> mainly mysql and sendmail
[13:12] <acalvo> so same problem, I want to use another mysql server and I've already configured dovecot, so no sendmail installed neither
[13:13] <nijaba> Daviey: FFe file as well bug #423678
[13:13] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 423678 in ubuntu-server-tips "[FFe]] fortunes-ubuntu-server" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423678
[13:14] <alexm> acalvo: dovecot deals both with MTA and MDA part?
[13:14] <acalvo> dovecot acts as LDA and MDA
[13:14] <acalvo> and MTA, yes
[13:14] <acalvo> postfix relays on dovecot
[13:15] <Daviey> nijaba: great!
[13:15] <alexm> you can use postfix as MTA working together with dovecot ad MDA, it's a standard procedure on ubuntu server, see the server guide
[13:15] <acalvo> yes, I've did it
[13:15] <garymc> Hi im trying to connect to a server which i just re installed. Now when i try to ssh to it it says host key verifcation failed
[13:15] <garymc> how do i fix this
[13:15] <acalvo> but the sympa package is trying to install sendmail
[13:15] <acalvo> is it really needed?
[13:16] <acalvo> since I've already have a MTA and MDA
[13:16] <alexm> acalvo: ah, ok... it shouldn't
[13:16] <alexm> maybe a bug
[13:16] <alexm> or maybe the package knows only to deal with sendmail
[13:17] <acalvo> could be
[13:17] <alexm> acalvo: deps say.. sendmail (>= 8.9) | mail-transport-agent
[13:17] <acalvo> so, yes, it needs sendmail as MTA
[13:17] <alexm> and postfix should fulfill mail-transport-agent
[13:18] <acalvo> I think I've to use majordomo again
[13:18] <acalvo> I don't really like it
[13:18] <acalvo> no admin UI
[13:18] <acalvo> just cmd
[13:18] <acalvo> few options
[13:18] <acalvo> etc
[13:19] <alexm> acalvo: sendmail (>= 8.9) | mail-transport-agent means sendmail or MTA
[13:19] <acalvo> but it will install it
[13:19] <garymc> ok nevermind fixed itg
[13:19] <Daviey> nijaba: slightly modded the bug description.
[13:19] <alexm> acalvo: there's something else that maybe triggering sendmail
[13:19] <nijaba> Daviey: sure...  on which one, FFe or MIR?
[13:19] <Daviey> nijaba: FFe.
[13:20] <acalvo> Conf sendmail-base (8.14.3-6 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty)
[13:20] <acalvo> Conf sendmail-cf (8.14.3-6 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty)
[13:20] <acalvo> Conf sendmail-bin (8.14.3-6 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty)
[13:20] <acalvo> Conf sensible-mda (8.14.3-6 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty)
[13:20] <acalvo> Conf sendmail (8.14.3-6 Ubuntu:9.04/jaunty)
[13:20] <alexm> acalvo: i just tried in a jaunty and it doesn't install sendmail for me :P
[13:20] <Daviey> nijaba: There are two scripts in the package, one by me, and the other kirkland
[13:20] <acalvo> :O
[13:20] <Daviey> nijaba: RE, MIR
[13:20] <acalvo> I don't get it then
[13:21] <acalvo> that's the packages list to be installed: doc-base libappconfig-perl libarchive-zip-perl libcgi-fast-perl libconvert-binhex-perl libcrypt-ciphersaber-perl libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl
[13:21] <acalvo>   libfcgi-perl libfreezethaw-perl libintl-perl libio-stringy-perl libmd5-perl libmime-charset-perl libmime-encwords-perl libmime-perl libmime-tools-perl
[13:21] <acalvo>   libmldbm-perl libmsgcat-perl libmysqlclient15off libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libtemplate-perl libuuid-perl libxml-libxml-common-perl
[13:21] <acalvo>   libxml-libxml-perl libxml-namespacesupport-perl libxml-sax-expat-perl libxml-sax-perl m4 make mhonarc mysql-common perl-suid procmail sendmail
[13:21] <acalvo>   sendmail-base sendmail-bin sendmail-cf sensible-mda
[13:21] <alexm> acalvo: are you sure that you have postfix installed?
[13:21] <nijaba> Daviey: ah, sorry, I only noticed one :(
[13:21] <acalvo> alexm: err... no
[13:21] <acalvo> you're right
[13:22] <alexm> :)
[13:22] <acalvo> tried on the bad server
[13:22] <acalvo> ehehehe
[13:22] <acalvo> thank you alexm, too many hours working can trick your mind
[13:23] <Daviey> nijaba: /usr/bin/<-- wrapper script, mainly for checking locale and presenting a valid motd, or default if not found.
[13:23] <alexm> acalvo: anytime :)
[13:23] <nijaba> Daviey: ah, right
[13:23]  * alexm goes to lunch now
[13:23] <nijaba> Daviey: did you modify the mir accordingly?
[13:24] <alexm> acalvo: let me know how the sympa install is going, i'm very interested
[13:24] <acalvo> ok, one sec
[13:24] <Daviey> nijaba: no, happy to.. but didn't want to edit it if it was your WIP
[13:25] <nijaba> Daviey: please feel free
[13:26] <alexm> acalvo: i meant how it works after installing it ;)
[13:26] <acalvo> jajaj I know
[13:26] <acalvo> thank you!
[13:26] <alexm> ok, then see you again soon
[13:29] <Daviey> nijaba: updated
[13:30] <nijaba> Daviey: thanks :)
[13:30] <Daviey> nijaba: wait and see what MIR team say :)
[13:31] <nijaba> Daviey: MIR should not be a problem, FFe might...
[13:32] <Daviey> nijaba: surely, the fact that it is already in the archives makes some difference?
[13:33] <Daviey> i thought FFe would be trivial, but MIR the challenge :S
[13:33] <nijaba> Daviey: the critical point is not the package itself, but the fact that we want to install it by default
[13:34] <Daviey> nijaba: Isn't that a -server team choice?
[13:35] <nijaba> Daviey: that needs to be validate by the release team once feature freeze is active
[13:36] <Daviey> ahh
[13:36] <nijaba> Daviey: we got already a review by lool on the MIR.  Thanks lool
[13:36] <Daviey> lool: \o/
[13:40] <lool> :)
[13:46] <lool> Daviey, nijaba: Actually I missed something; you guys wrote that it builds a pot during build, but grepping the build log for pot doesn't yield anything and pkgstriptranslations doesn't find any either
[13:46] <lool> Could yo umake sure you generate an up-to-date .pot during build as to allow Rosetta to pick an always fresh one
[13:47] <Daviey> lool: yeah, the pot generation is currently manually done :(
[13:47] <lool> Should be updated in each build and a .pot needs to be in the source dir at end of build
[13:47] <lool> Currently it wont be picked up by rosetta
[13:48] <Daviey> lool: ok.. i'm adding your previous suggestions upstream as we speak
[13:49] <lool> Usually we do that in the packaging
[13:49] <Daviey> lool: the packaging is in the upstream project :)
[13:49] <lool> Oh ok
[14:02] <pavel>  question. i set up irssi with a proxy module, the proxy is running but i am having trouble connecting
[14:04] <dmacnutt> does openldap have an email list distribution list function?
[14:34] <pmatulis> pavel: try in #irssi
[14:42] <mattgyver> Transferring Multiple files via sftp from my computer, to my server within my LAN, is resetting the server, does anyone know why?
[14:42] <mattgyver> This is not a problem from outside my lan
[14:43] <pmatulis> mattgyver: check logs?
[14:43] <mattgyver> pmatulis, i havent yet, which one would you suggest looking at?
[14:44] <pmatulis> mattgyver: force another "error" and then 'ls -ltr /var/log' is a trick
[14:45] <mattgyver> cool
[14:46] <pmatulis> mattgyver: can also start sshd like '/usr/sbin/sshd -dd', check man page for what that does
[14:46] <mattgyver> great
[15:47] <alvin> Weird, I enabled Intel VT in the bios and kvm still says it's disabled in the bios.
[15:51] <alvin> Well, it'll have to wait till next week
[15:58] <heath|work> How do you disable a user password. Someone enabled it by passwd, but I need it disabled
[16:14] <genii> heath|work: (sudo) passwd -i 0 username
[16:15] <heath|work> cool. thanks genii
[16:15] <genii> np
[16:25] <pavel> is anyone here familiar with connecting to irssi proxy with xchat from a remote computer ?
[16:34] <giovani> pavel: nope, but #irssi might
[16:53] <Psi-Jack> Oi. Setting up VPN with OpenVPN is such a pain!
[17:08] <guntbert> !version
[17:24] <FluxD> Hi, is there any difference on the new ubuntu concerning apt-get? It gives me new errors about dependancies which the older versions didnt have?
[18:04] <FluxD> Why does apt-get install ubuntu-desktop give me dependancies error?
[18:11] <Psi-Jack> Why would you be doing that on a server?
[18:18] <FluxD> Psi-Jack, its because the latest desktop version avaialble is 8.04 lts so I thought I would install 9.04 server with gui
[18:21] <jart> hello
[18:22] <FluxD> hi
[18:22] <Psi-Jack> FluxD, Well, X is not supported on a server platform, nor Ubuntu-Server.
[18:22] <Psi-Jack> You have absolutely no reason to install X on a real server.
[18:22] <Psi-Jack> No good reason, for sure.
[18:22] <FluxD> Psi-Jack, I have done this before, after installing server version I did apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and I had gui thru nx
[18:23] <FluxD> 8.10 and 8.04
[18:23] <guntbert> FluxD: what do mean by "latest desktop version avaialble is 8.04 lts" ?
[18:24] <Psi-Jack> FluxD, Again. X is not supported for servers.
[18:24] <Psi-Jack> FluxD, You need #ubuntu for that.
[18:24] <Psi-Jack> Because it's /not/ supported, here.
[18:24] <danielgianni> Hi guys, someone uses HAL on ubuntu server? I tried but ended up giving up and returning to the autofs automount cdrom
[18:24] <Psi-Jack> FluxD, Nor is it supported by Canonical themselves.
[18:25] <Psi-Jack> And there's still never any good reason to install X on a server.
[18:25] <FluxD> okay so the place where my dedicated server is hosted has several options for OS, and the latest "gui" version is 8.04 lts but server is 9.04, Like I used to do in the past apt-get install ubuntu-desktop worked fine thru nx
[18:25] <FluxD> Psi-Jack, I know but I dont want to use 8.04
[18:25] <Psi-Jack> So what?
[18:25] <Psi-Jack> Why the fsck do you need X on a server?
[18:25] <Psi-Jack> Why?
[18:26] <Psi-Jack> Name one doubtfully good reason.
[18:26] <FluxD> Its a remote box, and the person using it needs a gui
[18:26] <guntbert> FluxD: wouldn't it be easier/safer to ask the hoster to add 9.04 desktop to the choices?
[18:26] <FluxD> guntbert, they keep saying wait and wait
[18:26] <FluxD> its been like 5 months now
[18:26] <Psi-Jack> guntbert, There's no reason to use a desktop distribution for a server ;)
[18:26] <danielgianni> I am developing a routine upgrade of the system when it recognizes a cdrom with certain files will copy these files and run them, so I have to capture the event automounting
[18:27] <FluxD> Psi-Jack, still doesnt answer the question why apt-get would throw dependancies error?
[18:27] <Psi-Jack> danielgianni, Sounds like ancient tech. You heard of networking?
[18:27] <FluxD> never has done it in the past?
[18:27] <Psi-Jack> FluxD, you have failed to provide any good reason to install X.
[18:28] <FluxD> Why should it matter what I do with my dedicated server?
[18:28] <Psi-Jack> You're time is up.
[18:28] <Psi-Jack> Stop asking here.
[18:28] <FluxD> Who are you to say that?
[18:28] <Psi-Jack> Go to #ubuntu for any desktop related questions.
[18:28] <FluxD> it was an apt-get question on ubuntu server
[18:29] <FluxD> not a desktop question
[18:29] <Psi-Jack> No, it's not.
[18:29] <Psi-Jack> It's a desktop question.
[18:29] <Psi-Jack> X is not supported by Server, nor Canonical.
[18:29] <Psi-Jack> Shall I get an op for you?
[18:29] <guntbert> Psi-Jack: I don't want to get into a "fight" over this - but if you have a remote host, that needn't be a "server", does it?
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> guntbert, He's asking for support on getting Ubuntu-Server, with Desktop support.
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> Thats not supported, period.
[18:30] <FluxD> Yes I need an op
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> !ops @ FluxD
[18:30] <jart> hi, i'm thinking of setting up an ubuntu 9.04 64-bit postgresql production database server.  am i crazy?  should i be using like, 32-bit 8.04 lts?
[18:30] <danielgianni>  Psi-jack :D I live im Brazil, you are heard of Brazilian networks?   :D
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> jart, No, that's fine.
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> danielgianni, Yeah, I hear they know how to do it sometimes.
[18:30] <Pici> Psi-Jack: ?
[18:30] <Psi-Jack> Pici, Aha! Cool.
[18:31] <guntbert> Psi-Jack: no doubt about this - indeed, you were questioning my advice to use desktop distro on the remote host :-)
[18:31] <Pici> Psi-Jack: Er, Why did you cal for ops?
[18:31] <Psi-Jack> guntbert, Oh. Because you can use a desktop environment locally.
[18:31] <Psi-Jack> Pici, FluxD insisting to ask for desktop support for Ubuntu Server.
[18:32] <jart> Psi-Jack: thanks for the reassurance :)
[18:32] <guntbert> Psi-Jack: I see you point clearly :-)
[18:32] <FluxD> Pici, I asked why apt-get install ubuntu-desktop would throw me dependancies error. and Psi-Jack keeps saying tis a desktop question.
[18:32] <Psi-Jack> guntbert, Precisely.
[18:33] <jart> i've been using 9.04 64 on my desktop and it's been working out really well for me and my software.  i just have this fear that a year down the road when upgrading everything is going to go hay-wire ._.
[18:33] <Psi-Jack> Running X on a server is a memory hog, inefficient, and not meant for server use. It will more than likely crash the server, and make it useless.
[18:33] <danielgianni> this solution that I'm trying To develop exactly to locations where the Internet is not available and there are technicians with necessary skills. Unfortunately this is the reality of much of Brazil
[18:33] <Pici> FluxD: Well, ubuntu-desktop is not a part of the server release, hence support for it is in #ubuntu
[18:33] <FluxD> Pici, someone there told me to ask it here
[18:33] <FluxD> coz I am technically on ubuntu server
[18:33] <jart> has anyone had problems running 64-bit 9.04 in production?
[18:34] <Psi-Jack> jart, Nope. No problems.
[18:34] <Pici> FluxD: You just asked if there was a channel for ubuntu server, we didn't know any of the specifics of your question when you were told about this channel.
[18:34]  * Psi-Jack grins.
[18:34] <FluxD> okay
[18:35] <Psi-Jack> Lesson learned? Ask your specific question, not ask to ask.
[18:35] <FluxD> No I didnt
[18:35] <FluxD> I think you seioulsy have some issues...
[18:46] <danielgianni> excuse me but I think my settings should be more related to development on Linux than any type of configuration
[18:47] <danielgianni> thanks for all
[19:45] <Skaag> how do I reset a serial device with stty?
[19:45] <Skaag> I think I've somehow managed to put it in a weird state
[19:45] <pmatulis> mattgyver: did you figure out the disconnects/
[19:46] <KillMeNow> http://stsdas.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/gethelp.cgi?stty
[19:46] <KillMeNow> that help skaag
[19:47] <Skaag> doesn't help
[19:47] <Skaag> I have the man page for stty
[19:47] <Skaag> the device is /dev/ttyS0
[19:48] <Skaag> I need to reset it
[19:48] <Skaag> the weird thing, it works if I connect it to a windows machine
[19:48] <Skaag> but under linux, I am unable to recreate the same settings that exist in the windows machine
[19:48] <KillMeNow> yea, sorry man...  not much help there
[19:48] <Skaag> and the funny thing is that in Windows I did not change a thing except for the terminal speed, which I set to 15200
[20:06] <ruben23> hi
[20:07] <ruben23> can i setup a server that well remote install on a network the OS of a  client PC.
[20:07] <ruben23> eithere windows or linux
[20:07] <ruben23> like the OS and install application are image on to the server.
[20:08] <nick125> ruben23: Look at PXE
[20:09] <ruben23> PXE....? only..
[20:09] <KillMeNow> yea PXE boot to a image server
[20:09] <KillMeNow> Windows calls it WDS
[20:10] <KillMeNow> there are other opensource projects like FOG that have it as well
[20:10] <genii> ruben23: I like to use this as a gude: https://wiki.koeln.ccc.de/index.php/Ubuntu_PXE_Install
[20:11] <Psi-Jack> Sam-I-Am, Ping!
[20:11] <ruben23> ok very nice..i will look into that
[20:12] <Sam-I-Am> Psi-Jack: pong
[20:13] <Psi-Jack> Sweet!
[20:13] <Psi-Jack> Sam-I-Am, You never did email me that LDAP stuff. ;)
[20:13] <Sam-I-Am> Psi-Jack: because its going to take a while to remove company-specific stuff out of it
[20:13] <Sam-I-Am> i can't just send it along :/
[20:13] <Psi-Jack> Ahhhh
[20:13] <Psi-Jack> Okay. ;)
[20:13] <Sam-I-Am> its probably 50+ pages of docs
[20:13] <Psi-Jack> Well, at least you didn't forgot. hehe
[20:14] <Sam-I-Am> probably more...
[20:14] <Psi-Jack> Yikes! 50+ pages?
[20:14] <Sam-I-Am> plus all the ldifs
[20:14] <Sam-I-Am> well, its very detailed docs... what you do, what you should expect to see, how to verify it worked, etc.
[20:14] <Psi-Jack> I see. Well,then, that's cool. ;)
[20:15] <Psi-Jack> Ugh, I'm so hating Pages.
[20:15] <Psi-Jack> Worst Document Editor ever.
[20:15] <Sam-I-Am> i kinda like latex
[20:15] <Psi-Jack> Kinky
[20:16]  * KillMeNow puts fingers up to his ears and sings "LA LA LA LA LA LA"
[20:17] <Sam-I-Am> heh
[20:17] <Sam-I-Am> Psi-Jack: i'm sorta changing jobs in a week or two... hopefully get some time to de-funk the docs after that.
[20:18] <Psi-Jack> Sam-I-Am, Curious. Do you have like a personal weblog or something you could publish that to as you go along? ;)
[20:18] <Sam-I-Am> it'll be going somewhere
[20:18]  * Psi-Jack nods.
[20:18] <Sam-I-Am> i... just dunno where
[20:18] <Psi-Jack> Heh, I registered psi-jack.info, a while back, and just haven't put up like an interface yet.
[20:19] <ruben23> i seen on an ubuntu pro--->Clonezilla and DRBD... but the sample is linux OS on client PC only..
[20:19] <Sam-I-Am> maybe i should find a place on community.ubuntu or something
[20:19] <Psi-Jack> Kinda looks cool though when my email is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>;)
[20:19] <ruben23> are there others....like counter part to windows of RIS/ghost
[20:37] <mathiaz> bdmurray: hey - reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/Charts
[20:37] <mathiaz> bdmurray: it seems that setting the importance of the bug is late in the process
[20:38] <mathiaz> bdmurray: whereas https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance states "The importance of the bug should be set as soon as possible. "
[20:38] <bdmurray> mathiaz: Do you have a patch? ;-)
[20:39] <Sam-I-Am> mathiaz: how long should i wait for a response to bug 423252 ... seems kinda important :/
[20:39] <mathiaz> bdmurray: well - I can draw something over my screen and take a picture ;)
[20:39] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 423252 in glibc "NSS using LDAP on Karmic (alpha 4) breaks 'su' and 'sudo'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423252
[20:39] <mathiaz> bdmurray: however it seems that setting importance is one of the first thing to do?
[20:40] <mathiaz> bdmurray: is that an accurate view of the process?
[20:40] <mathiaz> bdmurray: in which case the chart should be updated
[20:40] <bdmurray> mathiaz: are the charts accurate?  no they are rather old and should be updated
[20:40] <mathiaz> bdmurray: oh ok - so the Importance wiki page is up-to-date
[20:41] <bdmurray> mathiaz: Do you have any ideas on how to fit in set importance asap in the chart?
[20:41] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: now that alpha5 is out of the door, devs may have more time to debug the issue
[20:41] <Sam-I-Am> k
[20:41] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: keeping debugging it is of course welcome
[20:41] <Sam-I-Am> well, yeah... havent had much luck though
[20:42] <Sam-I-Am> strace and ld_debug havent been very useful
[20:42] <mathiaz> bdmurray: it seems that the importance should be set before requesting information
[20:43] <mathiaz> bdmurray: noting that the importance can be updated once more information is provided
[20:43] <bdmurray> mathiaz: okay, thanks
[21:07] <mathiaz> bdmurray: where are you grease monkey scripts?
[21:14] <soren> mathiaz: It's the launchpad-gm-scripts project on Launchpad
[21:15] <bdmurray> mathiaz: there is actually a ppa of a firefox extension now too
[21:16] <soren> mathiaz: I have a branch of it that takes care of configuring them as well, if you're interested.
[21:16] <soren> mathiaz: lp:~soren/launchpad-gm-scripts/launchpad-gm-scripts.easyinstall
[21:29] <guest2> Hello, I have been working with ubuntu server for a week now and I have one concern. Namely, my nvidia graphics card in the server is creating a lot of noise and normally this would be remedied by installing nvidia's drivers, but they are failing. Can you help me?
[21:31] <soren> guest2: What kind of noise? Physical, audible noise?
[21:32] <guest2> soren: yes, from the fan.
[21:33] <soren> guest2: So to get it to make /less/ noise, you have to use it /more/ (by installing X, etc.)?
[21:33]  * soren shakes his head at modern graphics cards
[21:34]  * ScottK would go with removed the card and use ssh.
[21:34] <guest2> soren: will installing X degrade performance
[21:38] <orudie> sdf
[21:38] <guest2> ScottK: is there a way to disable the GPU because I might need the card later.
[21:38] <ScottK> No idea.
[21:40] <guest2> thanks
[21:41] <soren> guest2: Well, it uses ram and a few cpu cycles here and there. The point is that it serves no useful purpose.
[21:41] <qman__> I keep a bunch of legacy nvidia cards around just for my servers to avoid that problem
[21:42] <qman__> fanless
[21:42] <soren> guest2: It's silly to have to run an X server with the only purpose of quieting the graphics card.
[21:42] <soren> I do actually have an AMD machine in my office that is really noisy. I never considered it might be the graphics card's fault.
[21:42] <guest2> It is a home server
[21:43] <soren> It's my first machine in a decade that has anything other than Intel graphics.
[21:43] <qman__> if it's AGP, you can ebay a fanless card on the cheap
[21:43] <guest2> PCI
[21:43] <giovani> just as cheap for PCI
[21:43] <qman__> PCI express?
[21:43] <giovani> $10-15
[21:44] <guest2> will the ubuntu server install break if I replace graphic cards
[21:44] <qman__> nope
[21:44] <giovani> not at all
[21:44] <qman__> I've moved ubuntu server installs to completely different machines without issue
[21:44] <qman__> as long as the hardware's supported there will be no problem
[21:44] <guest2> and what command will completely undo "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-180"
[21:45] <firecrotch> guest2: sudo apt-get purge nvidia-glx-180
[21:45] <qman__> sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia-glx-180 && sudo apt-get autoremove
[21:47] <qman__> my only real recommendation is to not go older than about a riva 128, and not go newer than geforce 7 series
[21:47] <qman__> anything in that range will be hassle free
[21:48] <Skaag> I have a problem with my eth0 using driver 'bridge' and a device called peth0 using the real 'tg3' driver...
[21:48] <qman__> oh, and avoid 7200LEs and 6200TCs, they leech system RAM
[21:49] <guest2> i was using a 8600 gts that was lying around
[21:52] <qman__> I even have a Vanta LT, but the framebuffers run a little slow on that one
[21:52] <daxroc> Evening all
[21:53] <daxroc> Any one know if libmp3lame and libx264 should be available on 8.10
[21:55] <qman__> they should be, but why 8.10?
[21:55] <giovani> daxroc: should be ...
[21:55] <giovani> it's easy enough for you to check from the system
[21:57] <daxroc> giovani: I found the packages via the web repositories but apt-get and aptitude fail to install ?
[21:58] <guntbert> !info libmp3lame 8.10
[21:58] <giovani> daxroc: do you have universe enabled?
[21:58] <giovani> because those packages aren't in main, afaik
[21:58] <guntbert> !info libmp3lame intrepid
[21:59] <giovani> !info libmp3lame0 intrepid
[22:00] <giovani> !info libx264-59 intrepid
[22:00] <giovani> so you need multiverse
[22:00] <giovani> and there they are
[22:00] <daxroc> giovani: appreciate it thanks
[22:10] <ycy> /dev/sdb1              14T  143M   13T   1% /home
[22:10] <guest2> How come when i update or upgrade the server, this happens: The following packages have been kept back:
[22:10] <guest2>   linux-image-server linux-restricted-modules-server linux-server
[22:13] <qman__> guest2, that's because a kernel update is a _Big Deal_, and should be held until you have the time to manually install them and test
[22:14] <guest2> I do, so how can i update it
[22:14] <qman__> to install the new kernel, just  sudo apt-get install  them
[22:14] <guest2> i did but i get the same message
[22:15] <qman__> if you still get the message then they didn't install for one reason or another
[22:15] <ScottK> guest2: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:16] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #423996 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (main) "package mysql-server 5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10.2 failed to install/upgrade: il sottoprocesso pre-installation script ha restituito un codice di errore 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423996
[22:45] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #424007 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (main) "package mysql-server-5.0 5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu10.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424007
[22:47] <gregor2005>  i have a softwareraid1 with one damaged drive
[22:47] <gregor2005> i removed it from the raid and now the device switched to read-only
[22:48] <gregor2005> when i switch to readwrite it switched back seconds later