[19:34] <wxl> hey tsimonq2 is news dead? maybe CC can help pump some air back into it?
[20:08] <tsimonq2> wxl: That would be really nice
[20:09] <wxl> what do you need?
[20:09] <tsimonq2> To tell the truth, I've ran out of time for it. I want to train someone on how to publish if they don't know how and aim to transition off of it
[20:10] <wxl> have you identified anyone that might want to take it on?
[20:11] <tsimonq2> wxl: No. I've asked jose a few months ago if he'd be willing to lessen the load but he said he's been busy...
[20:11] <tsimonq2> So it was up to me and Chris
[20:12] <tsimonq2> wxl: To be honest, with UWN, I'm burned out.
[20:13] <wxl> well you know stepping down gracefully and all
[20:13] <tsimonq2> Right, and I feel super bad for not doing it
[20:13] <wxl> maybe what would be wise is publishing something on the Hub asking for contributors and leaders
[20:13] <tsimonq2> But it seemed like nobody cared so it went lower and lower on the todo list
[20:14] <wxl> the CC can help with pushing that around
[20:14] <wxl> can do?
[20:14] <tsimonq2> So that's the problem I face now wxl, lack of motivation with UWN, and I don't think I'm ready to start a long Hub discussion.
[20:14] <wxl> not a discussion
[20:14] <wxl> finding someone new
[20:14] <wxl> and handing it over
[20:14] <tsimonq2> That is a discussion
[20:15] <wxl> i mean like i'd do it myself, as a contributor, but i don't know *anything*
[20:15] <tsimonq2> wxl: I can teach you :P
[20:15] <wxl> you don't have to participate in the discussion, per se. start it. give the relevant info for people to consider
[20:15] <tsimonq2> Alright.
[20:15] <wxl> why not teach your replacement, no?
[20:17] <tsimonq2> Yeah I need to do that
[20:17] <wxl> if all the info is there in the initial post, it should be easy for us to help with the discussion/transition and limit your impact
[20:18] <wxl> then whoever we find needs to make a call out for more contributors, i imagine
[20:20] <tsimonq2> Ok


[08:35] <dholbach> good morning
[08:36] <popey> Good morning Mr Holbach!
[08:36] <popey> Left in a bit of a hurry yesterday, wanted to say that I enjoyed our Q&A yesterday.
[08:37] <MooDoo> oh bloomin eck was that streamed, I knew there was something i wanted to watch
[08:38] <dholbach> popey: yes, same here :)
[08:39] <dholbach> it was good fun :)
[08:55] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[09:41] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:51] <popey> yo
[10:00] <czajkowski> hows everyone?
[10:00] <czajkowski> nice to see so many canonical folks at FOSDEM
[10:01] <MooDoo> howdy czajkowski
[11:06] <popey> mhall119, looks like that selfie button might get support at some point :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/camera-app/+bug/1451724
[11:18] <dholbach> dpm: as there were no objections, I announced the UOS dates (3-5 May) - I guess we should start planning in about 4-6 weeks?
[11:19] <dpm> thanks for taking care of it dholbach
[11:57] <dpm> dholbach, popey, mhall119, davidcalle, balloons, I've been thinking of next year's focus as we discussed recently. One of the things that I've had in my mind has been to review the way and tools we use for communication. I think it might be worth revisiting things like how we use the Fridge (and the fact that the site is in need of an update), the community site and IRC
[11:57] <dpm> in particular now that more folks are using Telegram, and creating new groups there
[11:57] <dholbach> nice one
[11:57] <dholbach> might be a good topic for UOS as well
[11:57] <dpm> yeah
[11:58] <dholbach> it'll be hard though to make the discussion focused and less about one's personal gripes with tool X :)
[11:58] <dpm> :-)
[11:58] <dholbach> but still a very useful discussion, yes
[11:59] <dpm> As much as I love IRC, the recent discussions about communication tools in the snappy team have made me think we should look at other ways that might be just as open but friendlier to new contributors for whom IRC might be a hurdle to join
[12:01] <dpm> I know some folks love slack, but I'd rather not go down that route, and propose a trial of an open source tool such as mattermost
[12:01] <dholbach> that reminds me... I still need to write that doc
[12:01] <dholbach> I'll do this right after lunch
[12:07] <svij> that's an interesting topic
[12:08] <dpm> hi svij, how are you doing?
[12:08] <svij> I'm fine, I think I'm over my jetlag! and you? :)
[12:08] <dpm> grett blog post on UbuCon, btw! :)
[12:08] <dpm> or rather *great :)
[12:08] <dpm> I think I'm over it, yeah, this time it really caught me
[12:09] <svij> thanks!
[12:09] <svij> Well, I came back on saturday
[12:09] <dpm> did you enjoy San Francisco?
[12:10] <svij> yeah, cm-t and I walked *a lot*
[12:10] <dpm> :)
[12:10] <svij> (like >15km a day)
[12:10] <dpm> oh, wow!
[12:12] <dpm> svij, on another topic, now that UbuCon Summit is over (and we're starting to plan the next one :), we should start getting together for UbuCon Europe planning
[12:12] <svij> btw UbuCon Blog posts: Am I the only one, who didn't see/read any UbuCon blog posts except that from pleia2?
[12:12] <svij> dpm: yeah
[12:13] <dpm> I've not seen other ones either, but I know some folks are drafting posts
[12:13] <svij> dpm: I wanted to do some brainstorming about the content of the website on the weekend. maybe we should do an meeting afterwards?
[12:14] <dpm> sure
[12:15] <svij> but I prefer next month… two exams and my book deadline coming up this month :/
[12:17]  * dholbach relocates to the office, bbiab
[12:18] <dpm> svij, of course, whenever you've got time. But I think we should start doing some planning during that time, as the UbuCon date is coming close. Maybe we can meet with SturmFlut or other organizers, or help with preparing something else in the meantime?
[12:19] <svij> dpm: well only a meeting is fine in the next week, can't do much above that
[12:19] <svij> also we must think of ubucontest 2.0
[12:21] <svij> but I think we have two new people for organising ubucontest
[12:21]  * svij asks them
[12:21] <dpm> svij, yeah, I'm just thinking of what we can do to help in the time you're busy with other stuff, so that others can chip in
[12:22] <svij> well pretty important are sponsors, to reduce the price of 25€ per person per day
[12:23] <svij> but searching for sponsors without a proper website is not that ideal
[12:25] <dpm> svij, yeah, but before contacting sponsors we need the outline of the event, talks, etc. I think that should be the first step. As per the website, as I said before, I'd recommend using ubucon.org, which is already set up and UbuCon organizers have full access to
[12:26] <svij> yes, I talked about the ubucon.org website recently with popey and dholbach in our telegram group. I'll choose ubucon.org, less work for everyone (in case of maintaining)
[12:27] <dpm> cool
[12:28] <svij> there are already a couple of wiki pages regarding the event: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuconEu/UbuconEu2016
[12:29] <dpm> yeah, I remember those when Sturmflut created them. I think these can remain (and grow) there, as they are useful for planning
[12:30] <svij> yep
[12:30] <svij> we had a similar structure for ubucon.de anyway
[12:30] <dpm> great
[12:32] <dpm> svij, so shall we put together a kickoff meeting for next week? (only if you've got time, though)
[12:34] <svij> dpm: yep
[12:35] <svij> dpm: monday or tuesday are good
[12:36]  * dpm checks calendar
[12:37] <svij> or wednesday morning
[12:37] <dpm> svij, Tuesday, 15:30?
[12:37] <svij> dpm: check
[12:37] <dpm> Cool
[12:37] <dpm> svij, who else should we invite from the organization team? Simon? Someone else?
[12:38] <svij> I've just asked Simon, not sure about the others, many will be busy at work
[12:38] <dpm> ok, let me put it in the calendar for now. If another time works best for him or the others, we can just change it
[12:39] <dpm> happy to do it later if it works better for everyone
[12:39] <svij> well, I don't want too many people in the first meeting
[12:39] <svij> toddy: --- what about you?
[12:40] <svij> (see above)
[12:43] <dpm> sent the invite for now, everyone should be able to add new participants or modify it  if another time works best
[12:43] <dpm> and the Ubuntu wheel keeps turning... finished an UbuCon and starting to plan two more... :-)
[13:24] <svij> dpm: simon doesn't have time, fyi.
[13:28] <dpm> svij, ok, thanks for the heads up!
[13:41] <toddy> svij: Tuesday 15.30? european timezone?
[13:41] <svij> toddy: yes
[13:42] <svij> for like ~30min
[13:44] <toddy> svij: I am at work than, but I think I can be in a chat with one and an half eye.
[13:44] <svij> we'll do an hangout
[13:47] <toddy> I have other 17 people in my office (our office is telephone free) and we have not very much meeting rooms. that will be a little bit tricky for me.
[13:49] <svij> oh ok
[14:23]  * balloons waves to svij
[14:23]  * svij waves back to balloons
[14:45] <mhall119> popey: cool, I tried adding functionality for it after I got home from SCALE, but couldn't figure out the FocusScope stuff
[16:00] <dholbach> balloons, dpm, mhall119: yo yo yo - team call?
[16:01] <dpm> dholbach, omw!
[16:01] <balloons> going to be 15 mins late
[16:02] <dpm> davidcalle, joining us?
[16:02] <davidcalle> dpm: yep yep
[16:41] <balloons> we're all so chatty today!
[16:46] <popey> OMG you guys should come over to slack, it's so much better! :D
[16:48] <dpm> lol
[17:07] <MooDoo> typical ubuntu channel, sooooo quiet ;)
[17:12] <dholbach> all right my friends ...


[06:59] <dholbach> good morning
[14:38] <Rhonda> Is there a wiki or help page on the difference between regular suite and -update suite?
[14:38] <Rhonda> And the timeline for when -update flows back into regular one?  I.e. the point releases?
[14:39] <Rhonda> Ah, I guess I found it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[14:40] <Rhonda> Are all packages in -update flowing into the next point, or are there sometimes packages getting rejected?
[15:15] <cjwatson> Rhonda: all packages in -updates go to the next point release - in fact the point release is basically a snapshot of -updates
[15:17] <Rhonda> A snapshot of -updates?  So -updates is a full suite, not just the revised packages?
[15:19] <cjwatson> Sorry, a snapshot of (release + release-updates)
[15:19] <cjwatson> -updates is a partial suite
[15:31] <Rhonda> Thanks :)
[17:09] <Legendario> hi
[17:09] <Legendario> bzr builddeb fails and says "secret key not available"
[17:09] <Legendario> but I have the key
[17:10] <Legendario> may be it is because I have multiple keys in it
[17:11] <Legendario> is there a way to specify the key?
[17:11] <Legendario> like there was in dh_builddeb
[18:14] <psusi> what is a "multi byte string"?  Does that mean UTF-8 or does it depend on your locale?
[18:19] <jtaylor> any unicode string can be multibyte
[18:19] <jtaylor> e.g there are unicode codecs with fixed size, 2, 3 or 4 byte, or variable size codecs like utf-8
[18:20] <jtaylor> utf-8 is multibyte as soon as you go beyong ascii (or latin1?)
[18:23] <psusi> I mean the C functions like wctomb... what does it mean when it says multi byte?  what is the actual char set used?
[18:24] <psusi> parted seems to be taking the UTF-16 string in the partition table and just decimating it to 8 bit chars by discarding the upper 8 bits
[18:24] <psusi> so I'm trying to figure out how to fix it to translate it to the proper form, but I'm not sure what that is and how to do it...
[18:25] <psusi> I'm guessing it is UTF-8
[18:26] <psusi> or does the native code set depend on the current locale?  and some don't use utf-8?
[18:28] <jtaylor> there is utf-16 in the partition table oO
[18:28] <jtaylor> fun
[18:28] <jtaylor> I think what the C w* functions do is locale dependent
[18:29] <jtaylor> but luckyly I never had to actually use them
[18:29] <jtaylor> so can't really help you
[18:32] <psusi> looks like I need to convert from utf-16 to wchar_t, then convert that into whatever encoding the current locale is using... wait... what is wchar_t?  isnt't that always utf-16?
[18:32] <jtaylor> I think so
[18:32] <jtaylor> no not utf-16, but always 2 byte
[18:33] <jtaylor> could be UCS-16 or whatever weird 2 byte encodings there are
[18:34] <jtaylor> hm no its not even defined what size it is in the standard
[18:36] <jtaylor> (4 byte on my system btw)
[18:37] <psusi> jesus christ... how can all of these conversion functions talk about what they are converting from/to without knowing what the actual format of either end is!
[18:38] <jtaylor> they get it from the locale
[18:38] <Legendario> any help up above?
[18:38] <psusi> so the locale defines BOTH the format of wchar_t, and the multibyte char set?
[18:39] <jtaylor> yes
[18:39] <psusi> this is fubar
[18:39] <jtaylor> Legendario: pass -k<keyid> to the build
[18:39] <jtaylor> or DEBSIGN_KEYID= in ~/.devscripts
[18:39] <jtaylor> yes unicode in C is no fun
[18:40] <jtaylor> man problems would be solved if everything would just be utf8 :(
[19:06] <Legendario> jtaylor, I've tried but got an error "bzr: ERROR: no such option: -k"
[19:06] <jtaylor> add it after --
[19:06] <jtaylor> it goes to dpkg-buildpackage
[19:06] <jtaylor> bzr-buildpackage -- -k
[19:11] <Legendario> jtaylor, cool! Worked out! :-)
[19:12] <Legendario> jtaylor, what does the -- stand for?
[19:12] <jtaylor> its convention to indicate stop parsing for own parameters and pass the rest on to sub-processes
[19:12] <cjwatson> or treat as literal strings rather than options
[19:23] <Legendario> jtaylor, cjwatson , awsome! :-) Is it still possible to add a package to saucy or is it already frozen?
[19:24] <cjwatson> We're pretty hard-frozen for non-essentials
[19:24] <cjwatson> But T is only six months away
[19:45] <psusi> Tiny Trilobyte? ;)
[20:09] <psusi> I could have sworn that redhat had a nice page that made it simple to see what patches they have applied to their packages,  but google is being unhelpful.  Anyone know what I'm talking about?


[01:46] <smoser> kees, yeah, that string doesn' tmean anything to me.
[01:46] <smoser> although i woudl suspect 'rs' == 'rightscale'
[02:05] <smoser> kees, i appear wrong rs != rightscale, but rackspace
[02:05] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/473711 indicates that
[02:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 473711 in aptitude "aptitude crashes when trying to free an invalid pointer" [Undecided,New]
[02:09] <kees> smoser: ah-ha. thanks!
[02:09] <smoser> and I know that they have forked our -xen kernel
[02:10] <smoser> or at least have maintained a xen ubuntu-like kernel
[02:14] <bryceh> RAOF, hmm, well
[02:15] <bryceh> RAOF, hmm, seems 5e7833 is already in the natty kernel tree
[02:16] <RAOF> Since when?
[02:17] <kees> RAOF: Ubuntu-2.6.38-1.27
[02:18] <kees> $ git tag --contains 5e78330126e23e009502b21d1efdabd68ab91397 | head -n1
[02:18] <kees> Ubuntu-2.6.38-1.27
[02:18] <RAOF> Thanks.  (I haven't yet got my natty ubuntu branch set up)
[02:19] <bryceh> heh, there is also a b5e7833, which is completely unrelated
[09:08]  * apw yawns
[09:08] <smb> apw, o/
[10:26] <apw> diwic, about ?
[10:26] <diwic> apw, pong
[10:36] <apw> diwic_afk, heh ... damn
[10:36] <apw> diwic_afk, i wanted to ask you about your sound bugs ... and getting them closed on upload
[11:00] <diwic_afk> apw, well, I saw two of them closed today
[11:00] <diwic_afk> So it seems to have been working fine
[11:00] <apw> diwic_afk, well no, as its not closing any which are alsa-driver
[11:00] <apw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/linux/+bug/672699
[11:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 672699 in ubuntu-cdimage "screen-reader does not work " [Undecided,Fix released]
[11:00] <apw> argle
[11:01] <apw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/718402
[11:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 718402 in alsa-driver "[Realtek ALC892] Recording problem" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[11:01] <apw> that one was in the changelog, but not againt linux, so it wasn't closed
[11:01] <apw> i wonder if they should be being moved to linux when they are deemed to need a kernle patc
[11:01] <apw> patch
[11:03] <diwic_afk> apw, hmm, maybe you're right
[11:03] <diwic_afk> apw, it wouldn't be too hard for me to move them to Linux when I send the patch
[11:05] <apw> diwic_afk, depends if you rely on them being in alsa-driver for tracking, as you can 'also affect' linux and at least you get the upload information splatted in, but otherwise probabally shift it to linux
[11:06] <diwic_afk> apw, ok, that makes sense
[11:07] <apw> diwic_afk, i can however assume if something is only on alsa-driver, and i have a buglink in the upload for it that i can just close it out fix released
[11:07] <apw> for the current situation?
[11:08] <diwic_afk> apw, the general case is that the bug should be closed even if it is against alsa-driver.
[11:09] <apw> yeah, there is no way to 'automate' via the nomal process, but we might be able to launchpad lib it.  for now i can just spin the list, it is short
[11:10] <diwic_afk> apw, because the general case is that bugs against alsa-driver should really be against linux ;-)
[11:10] <apw> i assume alsa-driver exists just to say "sound issue" and then moves to linux or pulse or whatever is really the issue once someone in the know knows
[11:11] <diwic_afk> apw, it exists because there is no way to subscribe the "ubuntu-audio" team via apport
[11:11] <diwic_afk> but yeah, it's handy and it works for us
[11:13] <apw> diwic_afk, oh so actually if we had an arsenal script which literally just subscribed ubuntu-audio and moved them alsa-driver -> linux ... as soon as it saw them, would that do what you want
[11:16] <apw> diwic_afk, ok closed off the two whcih wern't closed
[12:53] <PhoenixSTF> hello
[12:54] <PhoenixSTF> I got and issue with VT6421a controler that fails errors a lot with WD and samsung HDD, i have the 2.6.35-25 kernel and it is still bugging
[12:56] <smb> PhoenixSTF, I vaguely remember some patches for that sort of combination, though they were very specific to the ids. It might be yours just is not included.
[12:57] <PhoenixSTF> smb, can i help in some way to get it fixed?
[12:58] <smb> PhoenixSTF, possibly. But give me a sec to find the changes again
[12:59] <PhoenixSTF> smb, thanks m8 :)
[13:00] <PhoenixSTF> smb, i got the chip in front of me so i can take a picture or ref the serial number or manufacteur code of it, if it helps
[13:01] <smb> PhoenixSTF, nah, the os is more interested in internal things. I believe lspci should show it
[13:02] <PhoenixSTF> smb, ok tell me what to do
[13:03] <smb> Yep. So I found the last time they touched that. (sata_via: apply magic FIFO fix to vt6420 too)
[13:04] <smb> but it checks for board id, so i need to check the code how that is looked up
[13:06] <smb> PhoenixSTF, But you could look up what numbers (for vendor/model and subvendor/model) lspci will give you for the sata controller
[13:07] <PhoenixSTF> smb, ok ill try and give you that, its a pci sata controler ok
[13:07] <PhoenixSTF> ok i got 2 of them, on is working fine, the other one has got all the issues
[13:07] <PhoenixSTF> 00:0c.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller (rev 50)
[13:08] <PhoenixSTF> 00:0d.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller (rev 50)
[13:09] <smb> Would both have WD disks connected? Actually you will need to use lspci -vvvnn to get the numbers in hex as well
[13:10] <PhoenixSTF> yes
[13:10] <PhoenixSTF> i swaped drives between boath controlers
[13:11] <PhoenixSTF> i have 2 wd, 1 samsung and 1 seagate, the only one it doesnt complain about is the seagate
[13:12] <PhoenixSTF> so i have now a samsung drive on it and gives me the bug of ICR something error
[13:12] <PhoenixSTF> smb, the output is a bit big can i paste here?
[13:12] <smb> Hm, that could then be a different problem than the one they got fixxed. You could pastebin it and send the link here
[13:13] <PhoenixSTF> ok
[13:13] <PhoenixSTF> http://pastebin.com/Z0qsP4cZ
[13:15] <PhoenixSTF> oh the controler that is buging, works a bit better alone (I mean less errors), without the other controler on,
[13:15] <smb> Ok, so this one gets mapped to a board id of vt6421 and  for that the quirk gets enabled. Actually for that one even before the latest change
[13:16] <PhoenixSTF> ?
[13:16] <PhoenixSTF> well its a VT6421A not a VT6421
[13:16] <smb> Means whatever that fixed, you already have it
[13:16] <PhoenixSTF> does it matter?
[13:16] <smb> not in the driver code
[13:17] <PhoenixSTF> well if I have the fix why the issue?
[13:17] <smb> that just looks at the 0x3249 from the model number
[13:17] <smb> Just saying it is not that issue that got fixed
[13:17] <smb> You probably have a different
[13:17] <PhoenixSTF> ok
[13:18] <PhoenixSTF> i got the same board extra do you whant me to mail it you? lol xD
[13:18] <smb> When you say one controller alone works better it sounds a bit like there is some interaction. Heh, got enough not completely working kit. :-P
[13:19] <smb> I suspect it would be good to try a recent mainline kernel (to see whether this still shows the same issues)
[13:19] <PhoenixSTF> that is the thing the 1st controler, doesnt give any kind of trouble at all
[13:19] <smb> and if that is the case, it would be best to open an upstream bugzilla
[13:19] <PhoenixSTF> i had 3 controlers on it, and it was rock solid
[13:19] <PhoenixSTF> the other 2 with are the same, gives me the creeps with WD
[13:20] <smb> So it could also be a real hw fail
[13:20] <smb> Maybe not if two show the same problem
[13:21] <PhoenixSTF> that is it i tried the HD with my 1st controler, and everything is fine, i take it out of the server out it on my desktop and its fine... connect it to the 2nd controler in the server and ICR blabla bla
[13:22] <PhoenixSTF> i got a seagate on the 2nd controler, ok no problem. Samsung, ICR blablabla
[13:23] <PhoenixSTF> its the issue with WD and Samsung... i dont know if it is something to do with the controler manufacteur
[13:24] <smb> From what I read in that part of the code it has to do with how much data a drive sends  before handshaking
[13:24] <smb> apparently some wd drives do 40 double words while other only do half
[13:26] <PhoenixSTF> whant me to send my HDD info?
[13:27] <apw> smb, isn't it a bit odd that both those controllers are ide
[13:27] <smb> Must admit that I am reaching my limit of usefulness. This goes into detail levels beyond me.
[13:27] <apw> identicle from the lspci output, yet one works and the other not
[13:28] <smb> apw, yes, though both bound to via_sata driver
[13:28] <apw> PhoenixSTF, these are both discrete sata cards yes ?
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> thanks anyway smb, sorry for the trouble, if you find anything or anyone that can give some help i would apriciate
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> discrete?
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> what do you mean?
[13:29] <apw> as in physical cards plugged into a slot
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> yes
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> pci
[13:29] <PhoenixSTF> boath
[13:29] <smb> PhoenixSTF, Well the best advice is to do a test with a very recent kernel and then an bugzilla report
[13:30] <apw> one card working and one not implies one of two things, either one card is broken, or the support for multiple cards sucks
[13:30] <PhoenixSTF> i got the ubuntu server 10.10
[13:30] <apw> one thing you might try is swapping the cards, so the other one is the 'first' one
[13:30] <smb>         * https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15173
[13:30] <smb>          * http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/46352
[13:30] <smb>          * http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1062139
[13:30] <PhoenixSTF> yes well anole it works better but still outputs errors with wd
[13:30] <ubot2> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 15173 in Serial ATA "sata_via VT6421 softRAID" [Normal,Resolved: code_fix]
[13:30] <PhoenixSTF> the only problem is with the WD and Samsung HDD
[13:30] <apw> if its card related it should move to the other one, and if its s/w t should stay with the slot
[13:30] <smb> PhoenixSTF, Those are links to the previous bug reports and some mial threads
[13:31] <PhoenixSTF> smb, done that!
[13:31] <PhoenixSTF> apw i moved the card to every combination possible in 6 pci slots
[13:32] <PhoenixSTF> 1st, last, second, one after another, one before the other etc
[13:32] <apw> so order doen't matter then whether its detected first or second
[13:32] <PhoenixSTF> no
[13:32] <PhoenixSTF> or alone
[13:32] <PhoenixSTF> even alone gives trouble with the wd hdd
[13:32] <PhoenixSTF> I got a 1TB seagate, no problem at all
[13:33] <smb> apw, From the the gmane article it sound like you can get hosed depedning on number of drives and how much they send after the host indicates a hold
[13:33] <PhoenixSTF> the 500 Gb wd caviar.... well handshake problem and blablabla
[13:34] <PhoenixSTF> a lot of handshake problems but only on that controler....
[13:35] <apw> but he has two controllers and its ok on one of them if i am reading right; yet they are the same contollers
[13:35] <apw> that bit makes less sense to me
[13:36] <PhoenixSTF> apw, I know thats what is bugging me!
[13:36] <apw> yet if i understand you, and we switch the two identlce cards round the issue follows the bad card (ie swap the two slots they are in)
[13:37] <PhoenixSTF> apw, yes but only with the Western digital and Samsung HDD
[13:37] <apw> so there has to be something different with that actual card than the other one
[13:37] <PhoenixSTF> they are diferent in design
[13:37] <apw> even if only triggered by the specific HDDs
[13:38] <smb> apw, So that may be some physical defect that gets triggered by certain drive characteristics...
[13:38] <smb> eh you said that
[13:38] <smb> already. :)
[13:38] <apw> smb, yeah a defect on both, neither fatal on its own, only in combination
[13:38] <PhoenixSTF> apw let me correct that, alone gives some issues 2
[13:38] <PhoenixSTF> less but it gives
[13:39]  * smb is thinking... was that pci or pcie
[13:39] <PhoenixSTF> PCI
[13:39] <apw> but the nasty thing for us, is the kernel thinks the two cards are the same cards
[13:39] <PhoenixSTF> ?
[13:39] <smb> It are the same I thought
 they are diferent in design
[13:39] <PhoenixSTF> irq are diferent
[13:39] <PhoenixSTF> one is 16 other 17
[13:40] <apw> no the two cards are not the same
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> no they arent
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> the chip is
[13:40] <apw> yet they are i'd the same
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> manufacteur isnt
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> one has a esata port, the OK one
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> the other doesnt
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> one is green
[13:40] <PhoenixSTF> other is red
[13:41] <apw> yet the PCI information including the manufacturer _is_ the same on the two cards
[13:41] <apw> from your pci output
[13:41] <PhoenixSTF> do you guys what a picture from boath cards?
[13:41] <smb> very confusing
[13:41] <apw> PhoenixSTF, no i beleive you when you say they are different
[13:41] <smb> Right
[13:42] <apw> i am not actually interested in that they are different, i am interested in the
[13:42] <smb> Just they seem to report as exactly the same
[13:42] <PhoenixSTF> i know you believe, just well something might stand out you might notice ....
[13:42] <apw> fact they _say_ they are not different
[13:42] <apw> which either means they genuinely report they are not different
[13:42] <apw> or there is some other bug which gets the identity wrong
[13:42] <apw> but as i understand PCI ids they are fundamental things the cards return when interrogated
[13:42] <apw>         Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller [1106:3249]
[13:43] <apw>         Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller [1106:3249]
[13:43] <PhoenixSTF> ok let me get this easier on you I got one extra card, i can mail it to any one of you
[13:43] <apw> who makes the two officialy ?
[13:43] <PhoenixSTF> apw the chip is the same on boath
[13:43] <apw> PhoenixSTF, without the exact HDD drives which trigger the issue, this is not going to necessarily tell us anything (having the card)
[13:43] <PhoenixSTF> thats os the only thing that is the same
[13:44] <apw> right so the first id's should match and the second id's the ones i have pasted should not
[13:44] <mjg59> One possibility is that they're different revisions and that that information is available somewhere in a chip-specific register
[13:44] <PhoenixSTF> i can mail the HDD 2, has long has you return it!
[13:44] <PhoenixSTF>  xd
[13:44] <PhoenixSTF> xD
[13:44] <mjg59> apw: There's no real reason why subsystem IDs should vary
[13:45] <PhoenixSTF> i am going to poweroff my server and take out the OK board!
[13:46] <apw> mjg59, lets look at it a different way, is it reasonable for two completely different sata cards to have the same primary pci ids ?
[13:46] <apw> it doesn't seem so to me
[13:46] <apw> 00:0c.0 RAID bus controller [0104]: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller [1106:3249] (rev 50)
[13:46] <apw> 00:0d.0 RAID bus controller [0104]: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller [1106:3249] (rev 50)
[13:46] <tgardner> apw, clone makers do it all the time.
[13:46] <mjg59> apw: Sure
[13:47] <mjg59> apw: It's the common case for generic parts
[13:47] <apw> they are allowed to do that?  oh dear
[13:47] <apw> i'd have expected the subsystem id to vary on clones
[13:47] <smb> apw, I guess what you get is the identity of the chipset used not necessarily the brand and type of card
[13:47] <apw> so any card specific bugs ... and you are dead
[13:48] <PhoenixSTF> so no way to fix it?
[13:48] <mjg59> apw: Well, it's difficult to see how you can produce a card-specific bug
[13:48] <apw> bad wiring anything really
[13:49] <mjg59> If there's a problem at the physical layer then it doesn't matter - the card's just broken
[13:49] <mjg59> Not going to fix that in software
[13:50] <apw> no indeed.  i was thinking where there are some modes which work and others not
[13:50] <mjg59> Any vendor who's sufficiently uninterested in product differentiation isn't going to have changed thedrivers
[13:50] <mjg59> So if it works under Windows with the vendor drivers then there's something we're doing wrong
[13:50] <PhoenixSTF> ok let but why with WD cards? and why in linux?
[13:50] <mjg59> The most likely explanation is that there's some bit in the card firmware that influences the behaviour
[13:51] <apw> PhoenixSTF, does this card work with the 'bad' drives in windows
[13:52] <PhoenixSTF> not tested it...
[13:52] <PhoenixSTF> not windows fan....
[13:52] <apw> (who is :)
[13:52] <mjg59> So it may just be a bad card
[13:52] <PhoenixSTF> correct
[13:52] <mjg59> Timing tolerances may vary between driver manufacturers
[13:53] <smb> mjg59, The explanation for the older fix for wd was that those could send more after being told to wait and the change doubled the watermark of the fifo buffer. Asuming the windows drivers may have used the bigger value. O
[13:53] <PhoenixSTF> mjg59, sorry but the issue is with specific HDD, Seagate no problems at all, WD and samsung... well thats anoter thing
[13:53] <PhoenixSTF> i got transmithion problems with the samsung and the card is now alone
[13:54] <PhoenixSTF> exception Emaks
[13:54] <PhoenixSTF> and Bad CRC
[13:55] <PhoenixSTF> has i said before, I have a extra card, COmplements of Amazon, and i can give it to charity, so i dont mind giving to a developer to check it out
[13:59] <smb> To be honest, as apw said, its not only having the card. It could be interaction with specific drives or even the board
[13:59] <PhoenixSTF> dont mind sending the hdd along with it
[13:59] <PhoenixSTF> i am Pro Ubuntu
[13:59] <PhoenixSTF> when i mean pro is suportive
[14:00] <PhoenixSTF> i dont mind lending or giving stuff to get something done...
[14:00] <PhoenixSTF> has long has everybody benifits from it
[14:01] <apw> we're probabaly not the best people to send such a thing to, probabally the driver maintainer would be better placed to make sure of it to fix the issue
[14:01] <PhoenixSTF> or if you whant i can give access to my server with boath drives in it
[14:02] <PhoenixSTF> apw, well i just want to help on getting it fixed, a lot of people are complaining on the same thing...
[14:03] <PhoenixSTF> so who do i talk 2????
[14:04] <PhoenixSTF> xD
[14:04] <apw> hmmm, normaly i file bugs in upstream bugzilla and sub the maintainer in MAINTAINERS
[14:05] <PhoenixSTF> oh and guys apw, smb, and mjg59, sorry for any trouble i might have caused and thanks for your support :)
[14:05] <apw> no trouble
[14:05] <PhoenixSTF> ok apw tell me how Yoda
[14:05] <smb> Jeff Garzik would be sata maintainer, but in pathces there is also a JosephChang from via direct...
[14:05] <PhoenixSTF> yes i see
[14:05] <PhoenixSTF> so i register in it
[14:06] <PhoenixSTF> what do i do?
[14:07]  * apw is unsure what you are asking
[14:07]  * smb probably would try writing to JosephChang. He cannot do worse than not respond
[14:08] <PhoenixSTF> LOL
[14:48] <sforshee> I'm looking more advice on the toshiba resume problem I asked about last week (hanging for 5 minutes in the ACPI _WAK method)
[14:49] <sforshee> Messing with the triggering of the timer interrupt didn't change anything, I think what the bios is reporting is correct based on what I saw
[14:49] <sforshee> Although I think there is some sort of problem related to the hpet, I'm not sure what it is or if it has anything to do with the hang during resume
[14:49] <sforshee> I've pasted some excerpts from the disassembled AML and a trace of the _WAK method execution
[14:49] <sforshee> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/571148/
[14:49] <sforshee> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/571149/
[14:50] <sforshee> Of interest is the point in the trace where the timestamp jumps 5 minutes into the future
[14:50] <sforshee> This corresponds to the TRAP method in the AML source, right after it writes a value to some IO space
[14:50] <sforshee> I assume this represents making some sort of call into the BIOS?
[14:51] <sforshee> Any ideas on how to debug this?
[14:57] <mjg59> Yes, it means it's going into the BIOS
[14:57] <mjg59> It also means that there's no practical way to debug what it's doing
[14:58] <sforshee> Whatever it's doing, it seems to be stuck in there until there's an interrupt from the hpet
[14:59] <sforshee> Because if the hpet is in periodic mode when this happens, it resumes quickly
[15:02] <mjg59> It's entirely possible that the system management code waits for an interrupt but doesn't actually set one up
[15:02] <mjg59> Maybe we should just put the HPET in periodic mode over suspend/resume
[15:05] <sforshee> The hpet is being used as the broadcast tick device, so would that be something the tick code would do?
[15:05] <sforshee> The hpet resume as already run by the time this is happening
[15:06] <sforshee> s/as/has/
[15:06] <mjg59> It would need some special casing
[15:07] <sforshee> okay, I'll poke around at the code a bit and see if I can come up with a sane way of doing that
[15:07] <sforshee> thanks mjg59 !
[15:18] <cking> I wonder if Windows puts the HPET into periodic mode over S3
[15:20] <mjg59> cking: Windows doesn't do tickless
[15:20] <cking> aha
[15:20] <mjg59> I think they go to a minimum of 60Hz
[15:20] <cking> hence we catch these corner cases and windoze doesn't
[15:49]  * apw_ scoffs a dog
[15:49] <apw_> heh ... doughnut
[15:49] <smb> Who let the dog out? :)
[15:50] <apw_> cat is away ..
[15:58] <tgardner> apw: weren't you and JFo working on how to _not_ spam certain classes of bugs? tracking bugs for example.
[15:59] <apw_> yeah some are excluded ... what got hit?
[16:00] <tgardner> apw: bug #718839
[16:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 718839 in linux "QA Regression test kernel-security reports two failures on 2.6.24-28.84 Xen" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718839
[16:01] <apw_> will look ... likely missing a tag
[16:01] <tgardner> apw: so, something bjf's create-* tools should add ?
[16:02] <apw_> waiting for it to load to check, but they have tags so likely we are avoiding them
[16:02] <apw_> not
[16:05] <bjf> tgardner, current versions of create-* tools addd "kernel-release-tracking-bug" and "kernel-cve-tracking-bug" tags
[16:05] <bjf> apw, ^
[16:05] <tgardner> bjf, which this tracking bug did not have.
[16:05] <tgardner> guess that explains it
[16:06] <bjf> tgardner, bug # ?
[16:06] <tgardner> bjf: bug #718839
[16:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 718839 in linux "QA Regression test kernel-security reports two failures on 2.6.24-28.84 Xen" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718839
[16:06] <bjf> tgardner, for a while i was using "kernel-tracking-bug"
[16:07] <bjf> tgardner, that is not a bug that we created
[16:07] <tgardner> bjf, ah, I see.
[16:07] <tgardner> then they deserve to get spammed :)
[16:08] <bjf> well, i wouldn't say that but :-)
[16:09] <apw> spam them spam them
[16:14] <smb> tgardner, I seems the v<IP_ADDRESS>.13 is there. That it went from v<IP_ADDRESS>.13 would just mean there is no drm33 update
[16:14] <smb> Or did I misunderstand the question alltogether?
[16:15] <tgardner> smb,  there doesn't seem to be a v<IP_ADDRESS>.* tag
[16:15] <tgardner> so, you skipped .28 ?
[16:15] <smb> tgardner, Are you looking on kernel.org or kernel.ubuntu.com?
[16:16] <tgardner> smb, git://kernel.ubuntu.com/smb/linux-2.6.32.y-drm33.z.git
[16:16] <smb> tgardner, That would be my testing ground and proe to forgetting tags
[16:16] <tgardner> ah, how inconvenient.
[16:17] <tgardner> smb, what is the kernel.org path ?
[16:18] <smb> tgardner, I (hope) to have it in the announce. git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/smb/linux-2.6.32.y-drm33.z.git
[16:19] <smb> tgardner, But I just pushed the last tag to kernel.ubuntu.com
[16:19] <tgardner> smb, OK, I changed path to kernel.org
[16:20] <smb> Yes, that is better as its the official thing
[16:28] <bjf> smb, your email had:  git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/smb/linux-2.6.32.y-drm33.z.git
[16:28] <smb> bjf, Good, so that should be correct
[20:11] <apw> http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/linux.html
[21:07] <bjf> JFo, can you accept nominations on: bug #723945 ?
[21:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723945 in linux-ti-omap4 "CVE-2010-4258" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723945
[21:13]  * jjohansen -> lunch
[21:17] <JFo> bjf, I can
[21:19] <JFo> bjf, I'm getting timeout errors
[21:19] <bjf> heh, figures
[21:19] <JFo> but I'll work on it until I'm done
[21:19] <bjf> thanks
[21:21] <JFo> np
[21:32] <JFo> this timeout is making me crazy. I haven't been able to accept the first nomination yet :-/
[22:17] <apw> bjf, did you get your noms done?
[22:18] <bjf> apw, nope, but it's not holding me up
[22:18] <apw> bug # ?
[22:18] <bjf> bug #723945
[22:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723945 in linux-ti-omap4 "lockdep warning in KSM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723945
[22:18] <bjf> ok, that's just odd
[22:20] <apw> bjf, hrm, timeouts for me on them all
[22:21] <JFo> apw, I gave wgrant the oops number in #launchpad
[22:21] <JFo> I'm hopeful that there is something going on behind the scenes to address it
[22:21] <apw> JFo, ack, launchpad is a mess
[22:21] <JFo> yup :-/
[22:22] <JFo> bjf, any reason that guy changed the title of the bug?
[22:22] <JFo> or was that expected
[22:23] <bjf> JFo, not that i'm aware of, was just discussing with tgardner
[22:23] <JFo> ah
[23:19] <JFo> bjf, I am still checking your bug periodically, still no joy yet
[23:19] <bjf> JFo, heh, thanks, maybe just ignore it til tomorrow
[23:20] <JFo> I'l hold off and try again before I drop off tonight. Just wanted to let you know I hadn't forgotten about you :)
[23:33] <jjohansen> sconklin, bjf: that hardy xen kernel from the ubuntu-on-ec2 ppa is special
[23:33] <jjohansen> it builds by pulling in linux-source as a dependency and then copies the kernel source in and uses the debian dir and patches in the directory
[23:33] <jjohansen> its a mess, and it is going away.
[23:34] <jjohansen> but I am not sure how soon, there is still testing etc of the new image builds to be done
[23:35] <jjohansen> the new image build == to how the packages are pulled in and rolled into the ami image to be published for use on ec2
[23:35] <sconklin> jjohansen: ok, thanks, I'm just not clear on what kernels we deliver for ec2 and/or xen and where they are built, etc
[23:36] <jjohansen> sconklin: apparently neither am I :)  I had thought we were pulling in a the hardy -xen kernel for the images, but what really was being pulled in was a custom ppa based on that.
[23:37]  * jjohansen smb and smoser (mostly smoser) are working on changing that
[23:38] <jjohansen> for the other kernels, there are the karmic and lucid ec2 topic branches, and maverick and natty -virtual flavors
[23:39] <jjohansen> so just to be clear hardy will be moving to the the hardy -xen kernel but its not there yet
[23:40] <jjohansen> sconklin: we also provided an intrepid ec2 kernel from the same ppa as the hardy kernel, but intrepid is no longer supported so you can forget it.  And we never supplied a proper jaunty kernel
[23:40] <sconklin> ok, thanks.
[23:51] <JFo> stepping away to grab some dinner bbiab


[00:07] <angusthefuzz> Log in to launchpad.net and check your user profile
[00:14] <AboSamoor> angusthefuzz, I don't have one yet
[00:15] <angusthefuzz> AboSamoor: please see this link: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey
[00:17] <angusthefuzz> Can bug-control take a look at #286285 I think it needs to be set to high importance
[00:18] <angusthefuzz> bug #286285
[00:18] <AboSamoor> angusthefuzz, Thanks very much
[01:34] <shmengie> Howdy, I have an issue with compiz I don't know how to resolve.
[01:34] <shmengie> when I alt-tab to switch, the icons are corrupted.
[01:36] <ronc> Hi:  This may or may not be a bug, but I noticed an unusual behavior in the 8.10 installer that you might be interested in.
[01:37] <ronc> The problem was that during installation, the time (taken from the computer presumably) was 5 hours off from the time zone selected (in this case, CST in the US).
[01:38] <ronc> I noticed, however, that after installation, the time was correct, so this may be just a cosmetic bug, rather than something that needs attention.
[01:38] <shmengie> That sounds like the computer clock was assumed to be gmt and the timezone was subtracted.
[01:38] <ronc> Incidentally, I installed 8.10 RC on a MacBook via VMWare Fusion 2.0.
[01:38] <shmengie> I saw that too
[01:38] <ronc> Yeah, I noticed that the offset was exactly the difference from GMT.
[01:39] <shmengie> When you alt-tab to switch windows, are the icons for the windows trashed?
[01:39] <ronc> The unfortunate thing is that this is what the novice user would see as one of the few things to do during installation.  Not exactly comforting to a newbie.
[01:39] <shmengie> I'm an alt-tab junkie and the corrupted icons are driving me nutzo.
[01:40] <shmengie> I agree.
[01:40] <Hobbsee> shmengie: i can't reproduce that at all :-\
[01:40] <ronc> No, the icons for the windows were not trashed.  I have noticed that it is acting much more slowly than 8.04 on the same machine -- but I presume that there are some debugging hooks and that would cause the symptoms.
[01:41] <shmengie> Probably my video driver.
[01:41] <shmengie> ERr..  The intel video driver.
[01:41] <Hobbsee> ronc: not sure what you can do there - it has to take a guess as to whether the clock's in UTC time, or in a local timezone - and waht that might be.
[01:41] <Hobbsee> (hardware clock, that is)
[01:41] <ronc> My MacBook is using an intel graphics chip.  Some of the functionality isn't available on the Intel chip, so that may be part of my problem.
[01:42] <shmengie> I saw the computer sync up with a time server then do it.
[01:42] <shmengie> FWIW
[01:42] <ronc> Hobbsee:  I thought as much.  Not much AI there.  Still, you might have a flag or checkbox indicating whether it is taking the machine's time, or UTC.
[01:43] <Hobbsee> ronc: and a name prompt, and a ....
[01:43] <Hobbsee> ronc: if you start along that line, for a temporary session, where do you stop?
[01:43] <Hobbsee> iirc, it does go for the hardware clock time?
[01:43] <ronc> Hobbsee:  Yeah, I hear you.  Especially for a temporary session.  My newbies are having enough trouble getting LiveCD's working.
[01:44] <Hobbsee> ouch :(
[01:44] <Hobbsee> ronc: where do they get trouble?
[01:44] <shmengie> I think the installer tries to sync up with a timeserver
[01:44] <shmengie> So it would be trying to fetch utc, no?
[01:44] <Hobbsee> shmengie: yeah, i think it does after you've picked which place you're in
[01:45] <Hobbsee> prior to that, i'm not sure.  I think there's probably a bug somewhere in there
[01:45] <ronc> Hobbsee:  The biggest problem is BIOS settings, particularly on laptops.  They don't want to boot from the CD.   The next thing is the keyboard selection (for language) which throws them a bit.
[01:45] <Hobbsee> ronc: because it pops up with no warning?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> oh, the one at the very start, or the one in the installer?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> bios: yes, agree.
[01:46] <Hobbsee> although i've tended to find that the bios will pick to boot from cd first if it can, then look for other options
[01:46] <ronc> Hobbsee:  Yes, exactly.  No warning.  Most of the time, the keyboard is just fine and doesn't deserve such special treatment.
[01:46] <Hobbsee> ronc: noted.
[01:47] <shmengie> I've been confused by keyboard questions.
[01:47] <Hobbsee> ronc: i guess the converse problem is that it solves the language problem who don't speak english.
[01:48] <Hobbsee> ronc: whereas if there's a prompt saying "press <key> for other languages", in english, you're screwedif you don't speak it.
[01:48] <ronc> Hobbsee:  I agree that in most cases, the BIOS is set to boot from the CD before the hard disk because that is how you surmount problems.  However, in Dell machines, there is a second partition that runs (of all things, Linux) with a copy of Windows.  That partition is used to bring the primary partition back to "factory settings".  Hence, the need *not* to boot from a CD and go directly to the second partition on the hard drive.
[01:48] <Hobbsee> ronc: oh yes, i remember deleting that.
[01:48] <Hobbsee> ronc: tis a pity - not sure how much it's possible to change that.
[01:49] <ronc> Hobbsee:  Yeah, it is a particular issue for one manufacturer, but Dell is a big one.
[01:50] <Hobbsee> shmengie: keyboard, or language?
[01:50] <shmengie> keyboard, but it's been a little while since I installed 8.10
[01:50] <ronc> Hobbsee:  Just out of sheer curiosity, where are you?  I'm in Texas (U.S.A.)
[01:50] <Hobbsee> ronc: sydney, australia
[01:50] <Hobbsee> shmengie: yeah, there seem to be so many of them...
[01:51] <shmengie> I'm wondering about the alt-tab icon issue.  Then there's an older compaq which quit working with X.
[01:51] <shmengie> Recently.
[01:52] <shmengie> the Compaq was working until a recent update (week ago).
[01:52]  * Hobbsee heads out
[01:52] <shmengie> I'm in Florida(us)
[02:06] <waldenasta_> hello all
[02:47] <maco> regarding bug 289319, i just have to ask: wtf?
[02:47] <maco> oops wrong one
[02:47] <maco> bug 289343
[02:47] <maco> too many tabs open :)
[02:58] <mrooney> maco: haha classic.
[02:58] <mrooney> I think a lot of people just honestly don't know what an Ibex is
[03:03] <maco> mrooney: im going with "petting zoo goats with *really* *long* horns"
[03:08] <angusthefuzz> so how many unconfirmed comments do we need for the skull bug until it becomes invalid?
[03:10] <maco> angusthefuzz: *shrug* just figured i ought to see if i was the only one sane enough to not find skulls, bleeding animals (remember the heron thing?),and general death in every ubuntu wallpaper
[03:11] <angusthefuzz> maco: could be the proximity to Halloween in this case
[03:11] <maco> LOL
[03:12] <angusthefuzz> lets try to graph # of crazy bug reports vs. days to halloween
[03:14] <maco> well people claimed the heron was bleeding (rather than rather randomly and anatomically-incorrectly coloured) at the totally opposite part of the year from halloween
[03:17] <maco> angusthefuzz: ^
[03:17] <angusthefuzz> maco: sadly, if I look hard enough I see a skull
[03:18] <angusthefuzz> that bug ruined my thoughts of the background forever
[03:18] <maco> heh, one person on identi.ca said that if they stared at it for a while, they could force themself to see a skull
[03:19] <maco> i'm guessing it's like that thing where you hear the devil when you play Stairway to Heaven backwards only *after* someone tells you what words to listen for
[03:20] <angusthefuzz> yeah
[08:31] <Czubek_> Hi, I'm looking for member of the ubuntu-release team
[08:35] <Czubek_> I think I found Intrepid high importance bug which is not listed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[08:36] <Czubek_> It's: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-trident/+bug/223774
[11:18] <askand1> I dont think bug 3235 should be marked as a dublicate of bug 10435
[11:18] <askand1> The second bug is solved but that does not solve the first bug that still exists
[11:27] <askand1> So can someone please re-open the first bug? :)
[12:02] <hggdh> askand1, you can re-open it yourself
[12:04] <hggdh> askand1, go to the bug in question, click on "Mark as a duplicate", and clear the field. The adjust the status as needed
[12:12] <hggdh> askand1, also -- add a comment on why you did it
[12:18] <askand1> hggdh: thanks!
[12:19] <hggdh> askand1, welcome
[13:50] <lfaraone> Hey, is it just me, or does bug 289209 seem a bit silly?
[13:57] <arno_b> lfaraone> I do think so, may be there is a real problem with its usb devise, you should give him this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingUSBStorage in order to have more info on its device.
[13:58] <lfaraone> arno_b: Well, Ubuntu (and Windows AFAICT) both continue to power USB storage devices after they have been 'ejected', iirc
[13:59] <lfaraone> arno_b: and until there is a problem (like short circuting, which atm is just a user fear) its a cosmetic issue.
[14:03] <arno_b> i am not an expert on USB device ;) But you should ask him to give the result of mount -l before unmout and after. If his key is no more here it means that there is no problem
[14:04] <lfaraone> arno_b: kk
[14:10] <persia> lfaraone, I've short-circuited a USB key before.  That said, I think the lesson was that I shouldn't attach/detach USB keys in the rain, rather than that the kernel/laptop had an issue regarding power.
[14:13] <lfaraone> persia: Lol.
[14:13] <lfaraone> persia: In any case, I've followed arno_b 's advice and asked for info about mount -l
[14:14] <lfaraone> persia: Although I just tested on OSX, and that behavior (light staying on) is completely normal on the proprietary OSs
[14:17] <persia> Generally it's implemented in hardware or BIOS, rather than the OS.  Most workstations will provide power to USB when the power supply is on, even if no operating system has ever booted on the components, and the motherboard is powered down.  Laptops usually require the motherboard to be powered to provide USB power, although some will provide power when the motherboard is off if they are on AC.
[14:17] <persia> That's part of why USB keyboards usually work before the OS is loaded (e.g. at the grub prompt).
[14:26] <askand> is bug 3235 affecting the correct package?
[14:54] <persia> askand, The issue is that templates tend to be in user folders.  If you want to fix that bug, I recommend creating a blueprint for a structure by which there can be system installed templates in Nautilus (may exist already : I haven't investigated), and file bugs against packages that have document formats to have them provide templates to this system location, linked to the blueprint.
[16:05] <patrickod> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=959350 I have apparently discovered a bug with my zonet PCI ethernet card
[16:06] <patrickod> it shows up in ifconfig but it doesn't work
[16:06] <patrickod> I know that the cable and the network are working perfectly as I have tested them with the onboard ethernet
[16:07] <patrickod> any suggestions from anyone/
[16:07] <patrickod> ?
[16:07] <persia> patrickod, I have a USB ethernet interface like that.  Needs kernel drivers.
[16:07] <patrickod> persia: have you any links?
[16:08] <persia> patrickod, Sorry, no.
[16:08] <hwilde> if it shows up in ifconfig doesn't it have drivers already
[16:08] <persia> hwilde, but the drivers don't necessarily work completely.
[16:09] <persia> hwilde, Basically, the kernel knows enough to know there is an interface there, but may not have enough information or firmware to actually send packets.
[16:09] <hwilde> i've never seen an ethernet actually show up in ifconfig and not be usable
[16:09] <hwilde> for me they just dont show up
[16:09] <hwilde> if theres no drivers
[16:10] <azimout> apart from new versions of some important core components (kernel, gnome, X, n-m), there are some new tools inside intrepid
[16:11] <persia> patrickod, Best suggestion I have is to file a bug with the output of lspci -vvnn, and see if anything comes of it.
[16:11] <patrickod> ok
[16:11] <azimout> like the enhanced fast-user-switch applet, usb-creator and system-cleaner
[16:12] <azimout> it is my opinion that we should give a higher priority into making sure these new tools (that will get a lot of publicity when intrepid comes out in 4 days) are as high-quality as possible
[16:13]  * hwilde stares at azimout
[16:14] <azimout> so i invite anyone willing, to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-cleaner
[16:14] <azimout> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator
[16:14] <azimout> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet
[18:17] <lfaraone> What's the package that automounts USB FS devices on insertion?
[18:19] <persia> nautilus for Ubuntu Desktop/Ubuntu Mobile/Ubuntu Studio, thunar for Xubuntu/Ubuntu Mobile, I'm not sure for Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu, or Mythbuntu.
[18:19] <persia> Err.  thunar for Xubuntu/Ubuntu MID
[19:23] <lfaraone> Hey, does bug 288011 make sense to anyone?
[19:29] <persia> lfaraone, Looks like a refiling of another bug as a new bug in hopes that it gets more attention.  I forget to which bug it is a duplicate, but I think that if you check the log of this channel for the time that bug was filed, you will find discussion of the original bug.
[19:31] <cypher1> persia, is it this one bug 242956 ?
[19:32] <persia> Yeah.  That's it.
[19:47] <d4rr3ll__> hi, this might be the wrong channel, but, I've just installed 8.10rc and it doesn't appear to have 'svk' in the package list, is this correct?
[19:51] <stgraber> d4rr3ll__: svk - A Distributed Version Control System
[19:51] <stgraber> it's in the package list
[19:53] <d4rr3ll__> aptitude install svk tells me the package is broken
[19:53] <crimsun> d4rr3ll__: note that it's in the universe component.
[19:53] <crimsun> oh, due to libfile-temp-perl (> 0.17)
[19:54] <d4rr3ll__> crimsun: yeah thats the error
[19:54] <d4rr3ll__>   svk: Depends: libfile-temp-perl (> 0.17) which is a virtual package.
[19:54] <crimsun> d4rr3ll__: please file a bug, and I'll take care of it
[19:55] <d4rr3ll__> crimsun: will do
[20:00] <d4rr3ll__> crimsun: svk bug filed #289623
[20:00] <crimsun> d4rr3ll__: thanks
[20:01] <d4rr3ll__> np
[21:03] <liw> hi, could someone #285878 importance to be wishlist?
[21:04] <persia> bug #285878
[21:04] <persia> liw, done
[21:04] <liw> persia, thank you
[21:33] <liw> persia, could you change #285888 also to wishlist?
[21:33] <persia> bug #285888
[21:34] <persia> liw, I'll encourage you to ask generally.  There's usually a lot of people here, and someone who can make that change (for whom it might be a more convenient time of day).
[21:34] <liw> persia, you're right, sorry
[21:35] <persia> No problems : I happen to be up anyway tonight.
[21:35] <persia> What's the status for that one?
[21:36] <persia> Incomplete/Confirmed/Triaged/Wontfix ?
[21:36] <liw> "Triaged" sounds good to me
[21:37] <persia> Done.
[21:37] <liw> thanks again
[21:37] <persia> On a completely different topic, did you have a chance to look at ubottu?
[21:37] <liw> was that the ical parsing thing?
[21:38] <persia> Yeah.
[21:39] <liw> in that case, yes, I did. I did not figure out a solution (I found a minor unrelated buglet, but that's all), sorry to disappoint
[21:39] <persia> No problem.  Just wanted to check because the news team asked me about it again.  Given the release pressure now, I'll probably try to find another volunteer in a few days.
[21:40] <persia> stdin has the buglet hints and everything?
[21:40] <liw> yeah
[21:40] <persia> Thanks again for looking at it.
[21:40] <liw> no problem
[22:21] <tzn> hi guys
[22:21] <tzn> ive got a small problem with one reported bug
[22:21] <tzn> 289563
[22:22] <tzn> user is suggesting adding dependency, but it should really recommend/suggest meta-package
[22:22] <tzn> but there is no provides for burning software
[22:22] <tzn> I think I should confirm this bug, am I right?
[22:40] <azimout> bug #289563
[22:45] <azimout> yes, tzn, you did well to mark as confirmed
[22:45] <azimout> i also marked as priority:low
[22:58] <angusthefuzz> could someone take a look at 289621 and mark it medium, I believe it also should be triaged
[23:01] <hggdh> bug 289621
[23:04] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, what led to to think it is traiged?
[23:04] <hggdh> s/trai/tria/
[23:05] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: I believe it is a genuine bug, judging by the number of duplicates.  Additionally, the debugging procedures specific to sound recording have been followed and I am confident it should be looked at by a dev
[23:06] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, sounds good. Just checking ;-)
[23:06] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, one think only -- usually is it not a good idea to provide debug data *outside* of launchpad
[23:06] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: its actually nice for me to know that I am doing this correctly, as I have been pretty active triaging without much feedback
[23:07] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: okay, I will pull in the attachment
[23:07] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, thanks (I was preparing to do it)
[23:09] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: done
[23:09] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, you also checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems to verify all needed is in?
[23:11] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: yes, this problem seems very specific and I believe it is within the gnome-sound-recording program, rather than alsa
[23:11] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: and yes, the recommended info is attached
[23:12] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, done. Thanks for helping
[23:12] <angusthefuzz> thank you hggdh
[23:12] <hggdh> my pleasure.
[23:53] <RiotingPacifist> im having a problem with a usb device and  ohci_hcd , what project does it go under?
[23:56] <persia> RiotingPacifist, ubuntu/linux
[23:59] <RiotingPacifist> thx