[23:34] <minasota> Unit193: I went with lets encrypt for my certs. I think you mentioned them before
[23:35] <Unit193> Might have, aye.
[23:36] <minasota> The 'mail in the box' is working great.
[23:36] <minasota> https://github.com/mail-in-a-box/mailinabox/blob/master/setup/start.sh
[23:37] <minasota> But installs and configures a lot. Good install on a fresh DO droplet
[23:38] <minasota> plus it installs owncloud which is pretty cool


[03:53] <Fudge> any truth to roumers about a Ubuntu mate remix?
[03:54] <Fudge> roumors
[03:58] <cjwatson> Fudge: I've heard some noises about it, but it hasn't reached the point of people coming to the release team asking for official builds yet.
[03:58] <cjwatson> I think there is some work happening on it though.
[04:07] <Fudge> thanks very much cjwatson
[04:08] <Fudge> we were thinking of a meta package for Vinux users who love the old Gnome2 feel but personally I like Unity
[05:21] <pitti> Good morning
[05:22] <pitti> Noskcaj: are iodbc and unixodbc now installable in parallel, or did Debian's psqlodbc now drop support for iodbc?
[05:42] <pitti> doko_: I forwarded the unity-scope-click autopkgtest failure to dobey; seems the new gcc now emits a new warning which makes it FTBFS
[05:42] <pitti> doko_: that's the one that holds back the gcc-4.0 upload, FYI
[08:54] <cristian_c> Hi
[08:54] <cristian_c> I was testing a wifi guide to enable the EOL repositories
[08:55] <cristian_c> apt-get update is working, but apt-get install no
[08:56] <Laney> doko: are you aware of gcc-doc bustage?
[08:56] <cristian_c> I get many 404 not found
[08:56] <cristian_c> *s
[08:57] <cristian_c> Investigating, I discovered that EOL repositories are not updated
[08:58] <cristian_c> I was suggested to open a bug report for these problems
[09:00] <cristian_c> Can you confirm this problem and explain how to open the report in my case?
[09:00] <pcarrier> hi! I've been frustrating by the gdb/ddeb experience on precise. coming from the el world, after a debuginfo-install I get source listings out of the box when inspecting core dumps
[09:00] <pcarrier> am I missing something to make it work?
[09:02] <pcarrier> for example, here I'm pretty sure I installed the correct version of rsyslogd-dbgsym, yet gdb doesn't find the source:
[09:02] <pcarrier> #3  0x00000000004319a6 in qqueueEnqObj (pThis=0x23d6d80, flowCtlType=eFLOWCTL_NO_DELAY, pUsr=<optimized out>) at queue.c:2400
[09:02] <pcarrier> 2400 queue.c: No such file or directory.
[09:38] <seb128> do we have a script that does "fetch all the debs from a ppa build"?
[10:31] <darkxst> seb128, as in all debs for a single package? no idea if there is a script I just do it with apt pinning
[10:32] <seb128> darkxst, I don't want to use apt, typically I just want to wget/download the debs from a build page, like https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-019/+build/6072535
[10:32] <seb128> that's for local reviewing, not for installing
[10:33] <darkxst> seb128, source or binary?
[10:34] <shadeslayer> bdmurray: none of the issues listed on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html against kde-workspace can be found
[10:34] <seb128> hey SRU team, could anyone review unity-settings-daemon in the trusty SRU queue? it fixes an important issue with touch screen configs that the oem team would be happy to see resolved
[10:35] <shadeslayer> oh
[10:35] <seb128> darkxst, binaries, I get dget the .dsc for source, but e.g the url I just copied a > 10 debs
[10:35] <seb128> darkxst, it's a bit annoying to click on them all and click download for each
[10:36] <darkxst> seb128, pretty sure you could the urls in less than 10 lines of python, but I dont have a script
[10:36] <seb128> darkxst, right, I was just asking in case we had a standard script is some devtools collection
[10:36] <seb128> I'm going to write one myself otheriwse
[10:36] <seb128> just trying to avoid reinventing things
[10:37] <seb128> thanks for replying though ;-)
[10:37] <mlankhorst> Laney: I've reviewed my code and found some more missing unlock paths, can you try  mesa - 10.1.3-0ubuntu1+ppa1 from the canonical-x/x-staging ppa?
[10:37] <Laney> mlankhorst: okay, in a short while
[10:37] <Laney> is this going upstream?
[10:37] <seb128> bdmurray, infinity, stgraber, arges, slangasek, ..., ^ see the unity-settings-daemon ping some lines earlier, if one of you could have a look this week that would be nice ;-)
[10:37] <mlankhorst> eventually
[10:38] <mlankhorst> need to review it some more first
[10:40] <zbenjamin> can anyone tell me what getprop "ro.product.cpu.abi" would return on a amd64 machine?
[10:40] <zbenjamin> would it be also x86
[10:41] <ogra_> zbenjamin, only if you have an android running on your amd64 :)
[10:41] <ogra_> (i doubt there are amd64 android builds)
[10:42] <zbenjamin> ogra_: i see, it will still be a 32bit build hmmm
[10:42] <ogra_> what are you trying to do ?
[10:42] <zbenjamin> ogra_: i need to map the devices abi to the abi inside QtCreator and right now i look for a way to find out whats the correct way
[10:43] <ogra_> for the using the emulator ?
[10:45] <ogra_> (i mean, do you look for the arch of the host or of the target system ? getprop will not be available on desktops, only indsie ubuntu touch VMs or real HW)
[10:45] <ogra_> *inside
[10:50] <zbenjamin> ogra_: for the target system
[10:51] <ogra_> for that using getprop should be okayish
[10:51] <zbenjamin> i could use uname i guess
[10:51] <ogra_> yeah, that works for sure
[10:51] <zbenjamin> ogra_: thx
[10:51] <ogra_> and will even work once we have actual x86 tablets etc
[10:51]  * zbenjamin --> lunch
[10:51] <ogra_> (that dont use an android container)
[10:52] <zbenjamin> ogra_: yeah thats what i had in mind
[10:52] <zbenjamin> bbl
[10:52] <ogra_> note that it wont return debian arches that way though
[10:53] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ uname -m
[10:53] <ogra_> armv7l
[11:44] <xnox> zbenjamin: uname returns the kernel, not the userspace abi. Uname can be amd64, yet userspace i386.
[11:44] <xnox> zbenjamin: i think you want $ dpkg --print-architecture
[11:45] <xnox> zbenjamin: but thanks to qemu-user-static for example I can execute armhf, i386 and amd64 binaries on my amd64 machine.
[11:46] <xnox> ev: errors.ubuntu.com is not showing a graph =(
[11:50] <ev> xnox: we just cut over to a new database. That will return ~tomorrow.
[11:50] <xnox> ev: =( ok.
[13:32] <zbenjamin> xnox: what i need is the architecture/abi i have to use to compile apps for the device
[13:33] <xnox> zbenjamin: at the moment we have two: armhf (all devices + emulator) and i386 (emulator)
[13:33] <xnox> zbenjamin: adb shell dpkg --architecture, will tell you the architecture device is running.
[13:34] <xnox> --print-architecture that is
[13:35] <cjwatson> seb128: script> citrain in phablet-tools-citrain is sort of close
[13:37] <ogra_> did that land already ?
[13:37] <cjwatson> Well, I have it from ppa:phablet-team/tools
[13:37] <ogra_> oh, it is a separate package
[13:38] <ogra_> yeah, i thought it was supposed to be merged into phablet-tools
[13:38] <cjwatson> it's in utopic though
[13:38] <ogra_> (it did ... but only on source level ... produces its own binary)
[14:05] <ev> make experts: is there any way of having a match-anything rule that doesn't try to evaluate files? I'm trying to have a fallback rule that effectively passes an argument to another rule, so that I can do `make name.of.test.to.run`
[14:05] <ev> and then a rule (with dependencies) gets executed, passing name.of.test.to.run as a command line argument
[14:07] <cjwatson> does declaring the non-file-based-target in .PHONY help?
[14:15] <ev> cjwatson: nope - so perhaps I'm doing something entirely wrong here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7628766/
[14:15] <ev> $@ ends up being the first file in the directory, Makefile
[14:15] <jtaylor> ev: have a variable with ?=
[14:16] <jtaylor> e.g. TESTS ?= $(wildcard *runfiles)
[14:16] <jtaylor> make TESTS=on-ythis-file-please
[14:16] <jtaylor> like regular make check
[14:16] <jtaylor> automake check
[14:17] <ev> yeah, I guess I could fall back to that. It just looks ugly and creates inconsistency between running ./run-tests with arguments and feeding something an env var.
[14:18] <ev> but I'm already abusing make for this
[14:19] <jtaylor> its not an env variable its a make variable
[14:19] <ev> indeed
[14:20] <mlankhorst> Laney: ping? :P
[14:20] <Laney> not yet sorry
[14:28] <pitti> cjwatson: is there something like "click uninstall", or is that simply "sudo rm -r /opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.calculator/" ?
[14:29] <pitti> I found "unregister --all-users", but that's not the same
[14:30] <ogra_> pitti, adb shell click unregister --user=phablet $PACKAGE
[14:31] <cjwatson> pitti: unregister
[14:31] <doko> dobey, could you have a look at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Utopic/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-unity-scope-click/lastBuild/?  not sure if pitti already told you
[14:31] <cjwatson> Don't just do rm -r, you'll leave bits behind
[14:33] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks
[14:34] <pitti> cjwatson: I tried that (with and without --all-users), it still leaves /opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.calculator/* behind
[14:34] <pitti> that just hides it
[14:35] <cjwatson> pitti: in general that depends whether the app is running
[14:36] <cjwatson> it should get GCed eventually; normally, don't worry about it
[14:36] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, ok; thanks!
[14:36] <cjwatson> --all-users likely isn't what you want unless it was registered with --all-users to start with
[14:36] <pitti> cjwatson: I don't know how it was registered; it's installed by default
[14:38] <pitti> cjwatson: use case: for testing a local .click I wanted to ensure that no other version is installed, and then click install that one; but perhaps I don't need to do that cleanup
[14:38] <cjwatson> you don't
[14:38] <cjwatson> any user-installed version will override things installed by default
[14:38] <cjwatson> the installed-by-default stuff will be in /usr/share/click/preinstalled/, not /opt/click.ubuntu.com/, and it is generally not possible to remove those (unless the image is writable)
[14:38] <cjwatson> so we don't try, we just hide it
[14:39] <cjwatson> but anyway the structure of the database makes that sort of care unnecessary
[14:39] <cjwatson> https://click.readthedocs.org/en/latest/databases.html FWIW
[14:39] <pitti> hmm; apparently I managed to actually remove /opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.calculator/1.3.279/ (as on current image), but still have 1.3.277/ (my local install), and now can't unregister/remove the latter
[14:40] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks
[14:40] <cjwatson> look through /opt/click.ubuntu.com/.click/, there might be a @gcinuse thing somewhere
[14:40] <pitti> ah, 276 was in the image, 279 came as an app update
[14:41] <cjwatson> in any case, it isn't supposed to matter - the version that's actually used is looked up dynamically in the .click directories
[14:41] <cjwatson> stray versions are allowed to hang around a bit
[15:00] <dobey> doko: yes. will have a fix in a few minutes
[15:15] <zbenjamin> xnox: thx
[16:00] <rbasak> infinity: ping, re: juju-core powerpc ftbfs
[16:16] <infinity> rbasak: Yo.  I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it.  But, as I said yesterday, why should a utopic FTBFS be holding up trusty in any way?  We already know it builds on trusty.
[16:16] <rbasak> Sorry, I must have missed your reply.
[16:17] <rbasak> I wanted Fix Released status in Utopic for an SRU to Trusty. But I guess having it in utopic-proposed is enough?
[16:18] <infinity> rbasak: Having it in proposed is enough.
[16:18] <infinity> rbasak: The point of that rule isn't that development users are more important and must get the fix first, the point is for the fix to not get lost/forgotten in the devel release.  Uploaded, or even commited to a branch that you guarantee will get uploaded, is good enough.
[16:19] <rbasak> OK, thanks. I'll work on the SRU.
[16:46] <ogra_> did we switch the compiler default to 4.9 already ?
[16:46] <hallyn> xnox: hey, you're DD right?  Would you mind taking a look at http://people.canonical.com/~serge/netcf-src-0.2.4/netcf_0.2.4-1.dsc and potentially sponsoring it?
[16:46] <hallyn> xnox: normally ahs3 uploads for me but he's swamped with real life
[16:46] <xnox> hallyn: sure.
[16:46] <hallyn> xnox: thanks!
[16:47] <ricmm> ogra_: lemme know if I missed the reply
[16:48] <xnox> hallyn: i need to sprint somewhere with you, to get keys cross-signed.
[16:48] <ogra_> doko, did we swithc the compiler default to 4.9 already ?
[16:48]  * xnox hasn't seen verification failed in a long time.
[16:48] <ricmm> xnox: hey, are we using 4.9 by default in u now?
[16:48] <ricmm> or doko
[16:50] <xnox> ogra_: ricmm: i believe we use 4.9 by default from now on. Let me find out when that happened.
[16:50] <ogra_> must have been very recent
[16:51] <xnox> ogra_: it's about a month late.
[16:51] <xnox> ricmm: older compilers are still available and you can choose to use an older one.
[16:52] <hallyn> xnox: are you going to be at linuxcon chicago or plumbers dusseldorf?
[16:52] <xnox> ogra_: as off 2 hours ago.
[16:52] <ogra_> hah !
[16:52] <hallyn> anyway come up with a pretext i love to sprint :)
[16:52] <ogra_> ricmm, so that might be your prob :)
[16:53] <ricmm> it is indeed
[16:53] <ricmm> I just checked, the first failing build is using 4.9
[16:53] <ricmm> instead of 4.8
[16:53] <ricmm> boom headshot
[16:53] <ricmm> I'm never landing my stuff
[16:53] <ogra_> oh my
[16:53] <xnox> slangasek: ^ can i go to linuxcon chicago or plubmers dusseldorf? Or have a cloud vs core stand-off sprint =)
[16:53] <cjwatson> as he said you can Build-Depends: gcc-4.8 and set CC=gcc-4.8, or similar
[16:54] <ogra_> right
[16:54] <xnox> ricmm: build-depend on gcc-4.8 set 4.8 compiler. Or give me the build failure and maybe i can fix it for you?
[16:54] <cjwatson> though clearly this is technical debt
[16:54] <slangasek> xnox: ... to get keys cross-signed with hallyn?
[16:54] <xnox> ricmm: what's the build log?
[16:54] <ogra_> cjwatson, just that this needs a change of the MP and means re-testing everything again
[16:54] <xnox> slangasek: yes.
[16:54] <cjwatson> ogra_: sure
[16:54] <ricmm> xnox: this is a tough header-based thing with dbus-cpp
[16:54] <ricmm> its not a build failure, its a runtime hashtable explosion
[16:54] <xnox> ricmm: that's fine, what's the build failure? =)
[16:54] <ricmm> so maybe an ABI break somewhere
[16:54] <ogra_> cjwatson, ricmm is only trying to land that since 4 weeks :P
[16:54] <slangasek> xnox: try to be more circumspect about your motives
[16:54] <ogra_> it was done today :)
[16:54] <cjwatson> ogra_: this isn't really a helpful line of argument ...
[16:55] <ricmm> there is no argument, forget about it all
[16:55] <ogra_> not a line of argument at all ...
[16:55] <xnox> ricmm: i believe dbus-cpp is compiled with 4.7, maybe we need to recompile dbus-cpp with 4.9
[16:55] <ogra_> just a comment
[16:55] <ricmm> I'll have this thing work 4.8 and bye bye
[16:55] <ricmm> dbus-cpp is 4.8
[16:55] <ricmm> probably will need a recompile yea
[16:55] <ricmm> I'll figure it out dont worry
[16:55] <ricmm> just wanted to know when the change had happened
[16:55] <ricmm> to confirm
[16:55] <ricmm> thanks
[16:57] <hallyn> lol.  xnox: slangasek ain't gonna go for that one :)
[16:58] <hallyn> xnox: i bet we can come up with very good reasons.  systemd.vs.cgmanager.vs.lxc comes to mind
[16:58] <hallyn> which is very much inplay at both linuxcon and plumbers, in fact
[16:59] <cjwatson> ricmm: perhaps this is simply that dbus-cpp is hardcoding 4.8 and something built on it is failing to hardcode 4.8 and was assuming that default gcc == 4.8
[16:59] <cjwatson> or something like that
[17:01] <hallyn> mdeslaur: stgraber: (zul:)  if no objections i'll push http://paste.ubuntu.com/7629496/
[17:02] <mdeslaur> hallyn: fine with me
[17:02] <hallyn> mdeslaur: on the topic, are you actively working on the $)(*&)%(* required for virt-manager merge, or are we all just hoping someone else does it?  :)
[17:02] <hallyn> i'll try to look into it assuming you do not have time.
[17:03] <hallyn> or, that's right, you were mentioning something new that may be easier to have ppl switch to?
[17:03] <stgraber> hallyn: LGTM
[17:03] <hallyn> thx, pushing
[17:03] <mdeslaur> hallyn: I've done it, it's just that there are a zillion MIR bugs to file
[17:03] <hallyn> mdeslaur: right, that's waht i meant
[17:03] <mdeslaur> hallyn: give me a couple of days, and I'll take a look
[17:03] <hallyn> although,
[17:03] <hallyn> virt-manager isn't in main is it?
[17:03] <mdeslaur> yeah, it is
[17:04] <hallyn> egads
[17:04] <mdeslaur> right
[17:04] <mdeslaur> might be easier to demote it :P
[17:04] <hallyn> ok - thanks, happy to wait :)
[17:04] <hallyn> yes,
[17:04] <mdeslaur> is it part of anything strategic that we ship?
[17:04] <hallyn> i'm not sure anyone uses it on server anyway...
[17:04] <hallyn> not that i know of
[17:04] <mdeslaur> ok, I'll look into that possibility too
[17:05] <hallyn> jamespage: smoser: ^ do you know if virt-manager needs to be in main for any particular reason?
[17:05] <hallyn> the only thing rdepending on it is ubuntu-virt-mgmt :)  which sounds like a bogus metapackage
[17:06] <hallyn> oh and is in universe anyway
[17:06]  * sarnold weighs how many MIRs might be needed vs having a simple bloody tool that can show which VMs are actually running...
[17:07] <smoser> hallyn, i dont have a good reason off the top of my head
[17:08] <hallyn> sarnold: simple tool like xterm -e "while :; do virsh list; sleep 5m; done"
[17:08] <hallyn> :)
[17:08]  * sarnold hugs hallyn
[17:08] <hallyn> lol
[17:20] <rbasak> hallyn: you know about watch, right? "watch -n300 virsh list"
[17:29] <hallyn> i do
[17:30] <hallyn> but what can i say i like manually looping
[17:33] <rbasak> You like doing what? :)
[17:34] <sarnold> the man likes to control his own loops
[17:34] <sarnold> he'd have used goto except shell makes that hard :)
[17:35] <doko> ricmm, what exactly is the issue? didn't see a reply when xnox or ogra_ were asking
[17:35] <ogra_> doko, dbus-cpp is compiled against 4.7 or 4.8
[17:35] <ogra_> that caused a bunch of build issues now
[17:35] <doko> ogra_, and why is this an issue?
[17:36] <ogra_> dunno ... they are working on porting it now ...
[17:36] <xnox> doko: no reply either.
[17:36] <ogra_> (no worries, it was just the info that the default switched that was important )
[17:36] <xnox> ricmm: can you please give us projects which need fixing?
[17:37] <xnox> ricmm: doko and I, are both from foundations team and we are ultimately responsible to get all packages fixed for 4.9.
[17:38] <ogra_> xnox, silo 007
[17:39] <ogra_> rebuilding the location-service FTBFS due to dbus-test-runner timing out
[17:40] <ogra_> xnox, doko, seems a simple rebuild of dbus-cpp fixes everything ... it was just that nobody was aware the default had changed
[17:46] <doko> ogra_, xnox: it's suspicious that a simple rebuild fixes things ...
[17:46] <ogra_> well, dbus-cpp is special :)
[18:50] <doko> dobey, thanks for the fix
[18:50] <dobey> no problem :)
[19:15] <pitti> jcastro: hey! so I'm trying "juju quickstart" as in your tutorial, as that looked really nice; I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/7630057/ and now it's just hanging
[19:15] <pitti> jcastro: and no running wget; any idea how I can check what's going on?
[19:15] <jcastro> pitti, can you ping frankban on #juju-gui? Marco and I are in the middle of another session
[19:15] <pitti> jcastro: strace is just in an endless futex wait
[19:15] <pitti> jcastro: sure, thanks
[19:38] <xnox> tedg: !!!!
[19:38] <tedg> ?
[19:38] <xnox> tedg: oh, surprisingly it wasn't you this time =)
[19:39] <xnox> tedg: indicator-datetime adding a semi-bogus recommends =)
[19:39] <tedg> ?
[19:39] <xnox> bug 1309063
[19:40] <xnox> pulls in ubuntu-touch-sounds
[19:40] <xnox> into all instalations of indicator-datetime => everywhere
[19:41] <tedg> xnox, not sure that's a bad thing? how else would we ensure we had an alarm sound?
[19:56] <xnox> tedg: indicator-datetime does alarms on xubuntu & unity7 ?!
[19:56] <xnox> tedg: and it should fallback to the desktop sound theme -> thus get alarm sound from the theme
[19:56] <xnox> not a file on disk
[19:57] <tedg> xnox, I believe the issue there is that the mechanisms on the phone aren't theme aware.
[19:57] <tedg> xnox, And we will do alarms if someone uses that Ubuntu SDK to set them.
[19:59] <xnox> k, cool.
[19:59] <xnox> weird, i thought sounds came from the same themeing capability as icons.
[20:00] <xnox> and i thought we do have that in the sdk -> well, pure qt
[20:01] <tedg> xnox, It's similar, but just a matter of programming :-)
[22:36] <slangasek> ricmm, doko: bug #1329089 filed
[22:37] <slangasek> ricmm, doko: I think I'm going to revert the gcc-defaults change, until we have a handle on the cause of this incompatibility
[23:08] <infinity> slangasek: You'd think that if this was a fundamental ABI breakage issue, we'd have seen it in a lot of testsuite during the 4.9 rebuild tests, since most of them would have been running against 4.8-built libraries.
[23:08] <infinity> slangasek: Is it possibly that dbus-cpp itself is just doing something Very Bad?
[23:08] <slangasek> infinity: interestingly we've turned up that at the time of the archive rebuild, several of these components were hard-coded to use a different compiler /earlier/ than 4.8
[23:08] <slangasek> so it's possible that this was a 4.8-specific ABI breakage
[23:09] <infinity> slangasek: Or possible that these components are somehow crazy. :P
[23:10] <slangasek> you don't blame the python script when the interpreter segfaults, and you don't blame the library when the ABI output by the compiler changes
[23:10] <infinity> slangasek: You do when the library does things against spec that intentionally break its ABI, but yes, point taken.
[23:17] <doko> slangasek, so is there anybody available from the phone team who can tell what the failing test is supposed to test?
[23:18] <slangasek> doko: ricmm might be able to; but I know this was holding up a stalled landing, so he's been busy working around it on his side and may not be in a position to discuss it right now
[23:39] <infinity> slangasek: dbus-cpp is tvoss's baby, isn't it?  Maybe he could shed some light on if it's doing something naughty with C++ that it shouldn't.
[23:39] <slangasek> infinity: in an appropriate timezone, probably
[23:40] <slangasek> in the meantime, I've reverted the default compiler to 4.8, so we're not under time pressure
[23:41] <infinity> You bumped the epoch instead of just mangling versions?  Fun.
[23:42] <infinity> I guess that's easier than making gcc_4.8 depend on gcc-4.9
[23:42] <infinity> Err, other way around.
[23:43] <doko> well, bumping the epoch should be a no-go
[23:43] <infinity> doko: It's already been done.
[23:43] <slangasek> doko: how does that follow?
[23:44] <slangasek> or rather: what would you expect to do in a revert if not an epoch?
[23:44] <doko> because any synced versioned deps will be meaningless in ubuntu from now on
[23:44] <cjwatson> the +really convention is less intrusive
[23:45] <cjwatson> less permanently intrusive I mean
[23:45] <doko> slangasek, just change the dependencies
[23:45] <cjwatson> do we have time to undo the epoch with archive hackery?  that's kind of scary
[23:45] <slangasek> cjwatson: sure, but much more error-prone for a metapackage that munges the binary version numbers of each individual binary at build time
[23:45] <infinity> It's still in proposed, we could thwack it.
[23:46] <slangasek> doko: as the Debian maintainer, why would you not just bump the epoch in Debian too?
[23:46] <slangasek> it already has an epoch there
[23:46] <slangasek> it's not like revving the epoch would cost you anything
[23:46] <cjwatson> I've stopped p-m so that we have time to finish this discussion
[23:46] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[23:46] <cjwatson> will block gcc-defaults now, this was just quicker
[23:47] <slangasek> fwiw I don't like the idea of either +really, or having a mismatch between the binary package version and the compiler version it depends on; I think the epoch is least-bad here
[23:48] <cjwatson> I don't object to the epoch if doko accepts it in Debian but I think that Ubuntu-specific epoch changes should be avoided at nearly all costs
[23:48] <infinity> slangasek: The epoch is least bad, long-term, but I assume this is only a day-or-two-long solution while we hunt the issue.
[23:48] <infinity> And for a couple of days, ugly version tricks seem to make more sense.  But meh.
[23:48] <cjwatson> ok, gcc-defaults blocked, p-m unstopped
[23:48] <slangasek> infinity: again, error-prone
[23:49] <doko> I'll look at fixing the dependencies now
[23:49] <cjwatson> surely only "error-prone" in gcc-defaults' own build process, and that doesn't take long to check
[23:49] <slangasek> doko: ok, if you want to own this, I defer to you
[23:50] <slangasek> doko: though if you wanted to just agree to revving the epoch in Debian, you could go to sleep instead ;)
[23:50] <doko> I do not want to ... but it looks I'll have to if I do not want to bump the epoch
[23:50] <slangasek> why do you object to bumping the epoch?


[14:13] <cjwatson> elmo / other IS folks: I'm trying to push out new source CDs for maverick, to close that out before starting on natty builds, but the mirroring seems to be taking ages - it's been nearly 40 minutes so far, which seems excessive.  Is anything wrong, like out of disk or something?
[14:17] <cjwatson> oh, there we go, I was obviously just a few minutes too impatient
[14:58] <cjwatson> FYI, I've landed some pretty big changes to cdimage - architecture handling is now completely different, mainly controlled by etc/default-arches, and all the manual variable settings in etc/crontab are gone
[14:58] <cjwatson> with any luck this will actually work, since I haven't tested it yet :-)


[00:27] <RAOF> bryceh: The “stuff->foo” idiom in X protocol handlers is common - one of the macros involved in unpacking the proto buffer defines & populates it.
[00:28] <RAOF> That freaked me out as well when I started looking at the protocol dispatch code :)
[00:33] <bjsnider> RAOF, do you suppose mono is dead now?
[00:33] <RAOF> No.
[00:34] <RAOF> I understand that there's quite a healthy revenue stream coming from the various Mono* frameworks for smartphones, there are paid mono developers in Europe, and at worst, it's all open source and quite a lot of people care about it.
[00:37] <bjsnider> yeah but it's not the same without any support from novell
[00:39] <RAOF> I'll wait until there's actual news that Attachmate is shuttering the Mono* work before worrying *too* much about Attachmate shuttering the mono team. :)
[00:39] <bjsnider> how can they continue the mono work if they fired the whole team?
[00:43] <RAOF> Where's the suggestion that they fired the whole team?
[00:44] <RAOF> Last I heard was “consolidating in Europe, letting go some US developers”
[01:13] <bjsnider> the phoronix story said 30 mono developers
[02:37] <raevol> any tips on configuring an 11.04 xorg.conf for dual head? i forgot to back up my old one and can't remember the black magic i used to get it working before
[02:37] <raevol> http://pastebin.com/zhm8JZKh
[02:38] <raevol> is what i have, but no dice
[02:45] <RAOF> raevol: Generally I don't bother with an xorg.conf and just let the DE tools set up dual-head.
[02:46] <raevol> DE?
[02:46] <raevol> desktop environment?
[02:46] <RAOF> Yeah.
[02:46] <raevol> i'm running xfce so i don't have those tools
[02:46] <RAOF> Failing that, http://tinyurl.com/yuftlh
[02:46] <raevol> yea that's the guide i just used, no luck
[02:47] <raevol> i wish there wasa way to generate an xorg.conf from a xrandr setup
[02:48] <raevol> do you know if my xorg.conf should be in /etc or /etc/X11?
[02:50] <raevol> seems to load it either way
[02:55] <bryceh> should be in /etc/X11, although xserver checks a variety of paths
[02:56] <raevol> ok
[02:57] <raevol> hmm, using that guide, my xorg.0.log says "no monitor specified for screen0"
[02:57] <raevol> appears that guide is out of date
[03:07] <bryceh> RAOF, one advantage to using xorg.conf might be that the server initializes as multihead, so your screens would be set up earlier than if you let gnome-desktop do it post-init
[03:36] <Takyoji[laptop]> Any way that I can help with debugging this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/763688
[03:36] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 763688 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[915GM] S-video output doesn't work in Natty (i386) (affects: 10) (heat: 242)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[03:37] <Takyoji[laptop]> of which I'm affected by
[03:39] <bryceh> Takyoji[laptop], install xdiagnose, run sudo xdiagnose, switch on graphics debug messages (the first checkbox).  Reproduce the bug, then collect output of dmesg, post to the bug.
[03:40] <bryceh> Takyoji[laptop], assuming it's not obvious what's wrong, the next step after that is to forward the bug upstream to bugs.freedesktop.org, sending dmesg, Xorg.0.log, and xrandr output
[03:55] <Takyoji> alright
[07:48] <tjaalton> so -mouse/-keyboard are for !linux, which means we can drop them from ubuntu by now, because evdev is used by default since intrepid
[07:48] <tjaalton> ?
[07:48] <tjaalton> can't think of any other usecase for them
[07:49] <tjaalton> but people keep on filing bugs against them
[07:49] <tjaalton> when they should've filed against -evdev
[07:49] <bryceh> tjaalton, yep
[07:50] <tjaalton> also, should we review the list of ubuntu patches on xorg-server next week?
[07:50] <tjaalton> hm
[07:51] <tjaalton> maybe a new session for "removing cruft & patch review"
[07:51] <tjaalton> or cram them into an existing one
[07:51] <tjaalton> dunno how much time this would need
[07:52] <RAOF> I'd like that.
[07:52] <bryceh> I could easily imagine us needing ~5 min per patch, so that could add up to a whole session
[07:52] <RAOF> Go over xserver & mesa.  We might as well schedule a session for it, even if we don't use up the whole time.
[07:53] <tjaalton> yeah
[07:53] <bryceh> don't forget there'll be a sprint not too far afterwards
[07:53] <tjaalton> cruft removal fits in the general planning session i guess
[07:53] <bryceh> it's possible you may prefer having that discussion at the sprint when you're not quite as session-slammed
[07:54] <tjaalton> bryceh: right, but it's too late for pushing the valid patches upstream
[07:54] <bryceh> fair enough
[07:54] <bryceh> also, I won't be attending the sprint, so if you need my input then uds would be better
[07:57] <tjaalton> ok
[07:59] <tjaalton> hmm, I'll check the release schedule for 1.11
[08:02] <bryceh> some portion of the xserver patches are just adding null pointer checks.  between apport and arsenal I'm confident we'd be able to quickly notice the crashes those fixed if they came up again so I'd be ok with us just blindly dropping them and see what happens.  I'm fairly sure all were forwarded upstream and got fixed in more intricate ways subsequently (worth doublechecking)
[08:03] <bryceh> there's another portion which were driven by dx team needs which I don't even know for sure are still valid... like the bgnone stuff
[08:03] <tjaalton> i dropped one which got marked fixed upstream in a different way
[08:03] <tjaalton> but yeah
[08:03] <bryceh> tseliot was a bit more tied into that stuff
[08:03] <tjaalton> we'll see then :)
[08:04] <bryceh> tjaalton, anyway whatever patches remain should be renumbered from 100.
[08:04] <bryceh> oh, there's also a handful from cnd for input stuff, although he's been good about ensuring those get sent upstream for the most part
[08:05] <tjaalton> bryceh: maybe so that 1xx is for patches never meant upstream, 2xx those that are targeted upstream, and then 3xx for backports?
[08:05] <tjaalton> or somesuch
[08:05] <bryceh> yeah, sounds like a good scheme
[08:05] <tjaalton> yeah the input stuff should get in 1.11, i hope
[08:06] <bryceh> only catch might be if a 1xx ubuntu-specific patch depended on a 3xx backport patch or something
[08:07] <bryceh> but that sort of situation is probably going to be exceedingly rare
[08:07] <tjaalton> good thing quilt doesn't care how they are named, just what order they have on the list .)
[08:07] <tjaalton> :)
[08:07] <bryceh> heh, that's true
[08:56] <tjaalton> so the merge window for 1.11 closes on 27th
[09:01] <tjaalton> which means having a review session next week would probably make sense
[15:22] <Sarvatt> well thats a fun change to wake up to, mesa requires glproto 1.4.13, xserver 1.10.x doesn't build against glproto 1.4.13 :)
[16:01] <Azelphur> Hmm, I'm having fun with my computers text rendering atm http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-05-155649_3840x1200_scrot.png
[16:02] <Azelphur> any ideas what would cause that? it seems to affect everything
[16:05] <Azelphur> X session restart time I guess \o/
[20:21] <Sarvatt> if anyone needs drm-intel-next for testing - http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~sarvatt/drm-intel-next/
[20:52] <bryceh> Sarvatt, btw that's also built by the kernel team - http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[20:52] <bryceh> (although looks like it hasn't been updated in a while...)
[20:53] <Sarvatt> bryceh: yeah its pointing at ickle's drm-intel-next and keithp took over maintainership of it
[20:53] <bryceh> ah
[20:53] <Sarvatt> plus this one has all the ubuntu specific patches so I have a functional touchpad and junk :P
[20:53] <bryceh> apw, ^^  need to repoint the git tree on drm-intel-next
[20:54] <Sarvatt> pinged him this morning, pretty sure he's gone already
[20:55] <bryceh> well, no hurry.
[20:55] <bryceh> Sarvatt, remind me we should snag a kernel guy next week about this
[21:58] <Sarvatt> bryceh: hopefully http://translate.google.com/#en|hu|give%20me%20a%20guinness%0A is all the hungarian I need :)
[21:59] <bryceh> heh
[22:00] <bryceh> guessing a beer run on Monday will be on the agenda
[22:00] <bjsnider> spend all day debating which beer it will be and who will get it


[00:09] <Hydr0p0nX> i'd like to install the saucy (13.10) hwe on 12.04, I don't see the Xorg portion in the repositories though, just the kernel... Is there another repository I should be looking at ?
[00:10] <Beldar> Hydr0p0nX, This is the 14.04 channel
[00:10] <Hydr0p0nX> is 12.04.4 not considered pre-release as well ?
[00:11] <Beldar> use #ubuntu
[00:11] <Beldar> no
[00:11] <Beldar> might be but this is not the correct channel is all
[00:12] <Hydr0p0nX> I asked in #ubuntu and it seemed like no one was aware of a 13.10 hwe for it, so thought i'd try here ...
[00:12] <Hydr0p0nX> sorry
[00:12] <Beldar> Hydr0p0nX, What your wanting to do in a broad sense is outside of support as well.
[00:13] <Beldar> just install 13.10, dual boot it if needed.
[00:13] <Hydr0p0nX> 13.10 has problems with my usb devices
[00:13] <Hydr0p0nX> I have a workaround that works on 12.04, but i can't test on 13.10 since my mouse and keyboard are iffy at best
[00:13] <Beldar> Hydr0p0nX, we can have this conversation on #ubuntu if needed.
[03:12] <pero> anyone else notice numix is broken on xubuntu? i just installed today's nightly and the active window always is red
[08:06] <pero> anyone have an idea why my laptop's fans run a lot lounder on xubuntu daily than debian xfce with just chromium open?
[08:07] <roothorick> I take it suspend/hibernate is very, um, broken, in 14.04 right now. Firstly pm-utils weren't installed at all by default, secondly the black screen of death is back, thirdly hibernate doesn't resume at all
[08:10] <roothorick> oh that's extra lovely, apt-get wants to blindly clobber my modified kernel :/
[08:11] <roothorick> I guess I was rather naive about the stability of A1
[10:13] <Fudge> anyone noticed cpufreqd not working
[10:22] <Fudge> bug #1162160
[10:24] <Fudge>  cpufreqd=2.4.2-2
[11:37] <Allison43> Hey all
[11:44] <Fudge> hi Allison43
[11:45] <Allison43> hi Fudge
[17:13] <roothorick> huh, okay... pm-suspend produces a black screen on resume (but the system responds to Ctrl+Alt+F1 followed by Ctrl+Alt+Del), but resumes correctly if I just do echo mem > /sys/power/state
[17:53] <roothorick> I narrowed down the issue. /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/94cpufreq is the culprit.
[17:55] <roothorick> which is really, really bizarre because all it does is set the CPU governor
[17:56] <roothorick> now that I think about it I suspect my custom kernel, let me pop a vanilla kernel back on
[18:02] <roothorick> wait, duh, I could unload phc-k8, load powernow-k8 and be back to vanilla
[18:02] <acovrig> any idea why mplayer and ffmpeg show a green video when capturing from a v4l USB device on my laptop, yet works just fine on my desktop (both running 14.04)?
[18:05] <roothorick> allright, guess I'll be sticking with 14.04 after all. Seem to have all the hardware quirks ironed out
[18:05] <roothorick> oh right, hibernate not working yet
[18:25] <soee> is it possible to use nvidia gpu when using hdmi to connect with TV (on a laptop with nvidia optimus) ?
[18:26] <roothorick> welp I managed to render the machine unbootable even in recovery. Why the hell does recovery mode try to resume?
[18:38] <roothorick> awesome.
[18:38] <roothorick> installing uswsusp renders the system totally unbootable
[20:21] <drsn0w> anyone else getting initramfs booting 14.04 daily?
[20:23] <Beldar> drsn0w, Check the sum of the iso. What are you booting with?
[20:23] <drsn0w> USB
[20:24] <drsn0w> and i did check the ISO, it's fine
[20:24] <Beldar> drsn0w, use nicks on the irc, how did you load the usb?
[20:25] <drsn0w>  beldar: apologies(: I put it on the drive with Unetbootin on Mac OS X
[20:25] <Beldar> drsn0w, I have not booted the todays daily so not sure if there is an anomaly.
[20:25] <drsn0w> beldar, sorry actually this is yesterday's
[20:26] <Beldar> drsn0w, Ah, and followed the steps for a apple load, it's a bit of a process?
[20:26] <drsn0w> Beldar, i'm not actually booting it on a Mac, this is a Hackintosh so it's an Acer laptop running Mac :P
[20:28] <Beldar> drsn0w, Sure but still the apple os, I have never had to mess with apple, but have glanced at the usb loading and just chuckled, it is different than finding the ISO you would normally do with unetbootin.
[20:28] <penguin42> drsn0w: You don't need unetbootin, just dd it to the raw disk device
[20:28] <drsn0w> Beldar, ohhhhh its different. damn it. penguin42, oh okay. thanks
[20:29] <drsn0w> even for 13.10?
[20:29] <penguin42> drsn0w: Note that's the raw device - I think that's /dev/rdsk/something in mac
[20:29] <drsn0w> yeah
[20:29] <Beldar> drsn0w, It may be a simple dd, but I have never seen that suggested in a apple os.
[20:29] <drsn0w> beldar: where can i find the apple loading instructions then? i've never had issues with it
[20:30] <Beldar> drsn0w, I have just clicked on links when people come onto the channels with issues, never had to do it so, the web in general. penguin42 might hae the answers though.
[20:30] <drsn0w> beldar, thanks!(:
[20:33] <drsn0w> beldar, penguin42, oh jeez you have to convert the iso! wtf
[20:33] <drsn0w> beldar, no the mac instructions apply only if you're booting on a Mac, which im not
[20:33] <drsn0w> beldar, penguin42, "http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ can be used to automate the process of extracting the Ubuntu ISO file to USB, and making the USB drive bootable. The resulting USB drive, however, can be booted on PCs only. If attempting to make a USB drive that can be booted from a Mac, follow the instructions below."
[20:34] <penguin42> drsn0w: Yeh and if it's a hackintosh I'd say it's still a PC personally
[20:34] <penguin42> drsn0w: But as I say, dding it should work
[20:34] <drsn0w> penguin42, yeah hardwarewise it is. Yeah. meh. i'm downloading 13.10 at this point :P
[20:35] <Beldar> dd sounds good if that can just be done on the OS, it is still a pc
[20:37] <drsn0w> Beldar: yeah. last install i messed up encrypted LVM so hopefully i'll get it right this time
[20:38] <penguin42> Beldar: Don't tell anyone, but macs are just PCs in fancy cases
[20:38] <drsn0w> penguin42: with restrictive EFI
[20:39] <penguin42> drsn0w: See the EFI on modern PCs - they're much more broken I think
[20:39] <drsn0w> penguin42: yeah. i turned off UEFI on my laptop. really simplified hackintosh and ubuntu :P
[20:42] <Beldar> penguin42, Heh, yeah, and a bit glorified to. ;)
[20:45] <Beldar> I do have a friend who got a free mac from a friend, he was always having malware and virus problems in windows, I never tried to fix any of this other than to tell him some safe use techniques, which were never really followed, the mac is great for them, no problems.
[20:46] <drsn0w> macs are good for end users,


[07:27] <seb128> hey
[07:27] <seb128> could somebody help to understand that
[07:27] <seb128>  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2015-February/004636.html
[07:27] <seb128>  why is the sync bug #1420948 reaching the desktop list?
[07:27] <seb128> "You received this bug notification because you are a member of GNOME3
[07:27] <seb128>  Team, which is subscribed to appstream-glib in Ubuntu."
[07:28] <seb128> but https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+contactaddress
[07:49] <wgrant> seb128: ~ubuntu-desktop is a member of that team, and that team doesn't have a contact address.
[07:51] <seb128> oh, ok
[07:51] <seb128> that makes sense, thanks
[07:56] <darkxst> wgrant, why can't we forward mail to another team address?
[07:57] <darkxst> for seb128's issue above
[08:00] <wgrant> darkxst: What do you mean?
[08:01] <darkxst> wgrant, I can't use a Mailing list from a different team
[08:02] <wgrant> darkxst: That's correct and unavoidable.
[08:02] <wgrant> But why is bugmail going to the team anyway?
[08:02] <wgrant> Team subscriptions are almost always the wrong move.
[08:02] <darkxst> wgrant, MIR's
[08:03] <darkxst> seems to be  a pretty hard pre-requisite there
[10:16] <HeOS> cjwatson, it's very interest - when my simple script is overloaded a staging.
[10:17] <Saviq> hey guys, I can't seem to add rtm tasks to any bugs all of a sudden, LP times out, any details I can supply?
[10:19] <wgrant> HeOS: staging runs on old, underspecced hardware. It's designed for testing and experimentation, not high-volume API scripts.
[10:19] <wgrant> Saviq: What's the OOPS ID?
[10:19] <Saviq> wgrant, OOPS-3f28155a61737185419afe0d45feacad for example
[10:20] <Saviq> looks like a db timeout? yikes
[10:20] <wgrant> Saviq: Nothing obvious, probably just database server overload.
[10:21] <wgrant> I'd wait a few minutes and try again.
[10:21] <Saviq> wgrant, ok will do
[10:21] <wgrant> We're just weeks away from finally replacing the >7yo DB servers.
[12:18] <pstolowski> hey guys, https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ seems to be down; it's the first time i'm trying to use it, so not sure if it usually works?
[12:48] <HeOS> I don't touch a staging today. :)
[13:53] <cjwatson> pstolowski: It's not very reliable in general, but it's back up now.
[13:55] <pstolowski> cjwatson, great, thanks!
[16:28] <shadeslayer> could someone explain to me how dput parses incoming                = ~%(ppa)s for launchpad's ppas
[16:33] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: dput doesn't parse it, it just turns into a directory on upload.ubuntu.com
[16:33] <cjwatson> or ppa.launchpad.net as the case may be
[16:34] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: I still don't get how ~%(ppa)s works :)
[16:34] <shadeslayer> I'm trying to implement somthing similar for my host
[16:34] <shadeslayer> so that I can have a more generic config
[16:35] <shadeslayer> instead of having a entry for each upload target, where the final dir is the only thing that's different
[16:35] <cjwatson> Here's the internal comment on the various schemes we support: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/launchpad/view/head:/lib/lp/archiveuploader/uploadprocessor.py#L726
[16:36] <shadeslayer> aha
[16:36] <shadeslayer> thanks!
[16:36] <cjwatson> So, OK, dput does do *some* parsing
[16:37] <cjwatson> In that it substitutes the bit after ppa: on its command line in place of %(ppa)s
[16:37] <shadeslayer> ^^ :)
[16:37] <shadeslayer> right
[16:37] <cjwatson> But the hard work of working out what that actually *means* is up to LP
[16:38] <shadeslayer> HOST ARGUMENT
[16:38] <shadeslayer>        If a user passes an argument to a host by appending the hostname with a colon, %(HOSTNAME)s will be replaced with the specified argument. Otherwise, it will be  replaced
[16:38] <shadeslayer>        with an empty string.
[16:38] <shadeslayer> aha ^^ , found it in man dput.cf
[16:38] <cjwatson> right - sorry, took me a while to work out what you meant
[16:38] <shadeslayer> right
[16:38] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: thanks anyway! :D
[16:38] <shadeslayer> this will make my life so much easier :p
[16:53] <shadeslayer> so, uhm, question, if I call something like : echo $dput_config | dput -c /dev/stdin foo:bar/baz foobar.changes
[16:53] <shadeslayer> could something potentially go wrong with parallel calls ?
[16:54] <shadeslayer> i.e. config gets mangled because multiple things are writing to stdin?
[16:57] <cjwatson> what are your multiple things writing to stdin?
[16:58] <cjwatson> I only see one
[17:00] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: if I run multiple instances of that command parallely
[17:00] <shadeslayer> as far as I can see, stdin doesn't get mangled with my test
[17:02] <shadeslayer> my test : https://paste.kde.org/pu5snozp6
[17:03] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: they're different stdins
[17:03] <shadeslayer> oh ...
[17:03] <cjwatson> /dev/stdin is a symlink to /proc/self/fd/0, which is whatever the process in question's fd 0 is
[17:04] <shadeslayer> ahhh
[17:04] <shadeslayer> so every process gets it's own copy of stdin, stdout, stderr
[17:04] <shadeslayer> right


[06:38] <Preytell> Morning all, I have a question about maas. I am attempting to put maas regional controller on a machine that how two nics, and I am deploying to hardware that is on a switch with the second nic on the controller.  But when I boot strap it will get to a point where it attempts to wget the tools and it tries to get them from the first nics address and not the nic that it just pxe booted from... Which of course fails.
[06:38] <Preytell> my question is is there a way to tell it to use pxe nics address for the download?
[15:56] <Preytell> Ok, I am reallllllly trying to use MAAS in a test environment, looking forward to offering my customers access to hardward via MAAS/JUJU, but so far I have nothing but trouble getting things to work. I WAS at the point where I could get nodes to provision correctly, could login with my keys, etc. But juju status would hang. I originally had my Regional controllers setup with two nics, one in my production subnet (Public Net) and one in a backbone subnet (MAAS
[15:56] <Preytell> I have so far never been able to successfully issue a juju status command. It always comes back as no servers available.
[15:57] <Preytell> At this point I don't know where to turn next.
[17:24] <drussell> Preytell: hiya there, which version of MAAS are you using?
[17:27] <drussell> Preytell: if you're using 12.04 LTS bundled version of MAAS I'd strongly suggest that you consider https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/CloudToolsArchive
[17:27] <drussell> Preytell: as this gets you the latest MAAS and juju on 12.04
[18:13] <Preytell> sorry had to step away. I am using the Ubuntu 13.10 iso released a few days ago....
[18:16] <Preytell> 1.4+bzr1693+dfsg-0ubun
[18:51] <Preytell> Ok, before I jump ship to using Ironic instead please tell me that Ironic is buggy and that I should stick it out with MAAS and make it work.
[19:18] <dannf> Preytell: i wonder if you have a dns issue
[19:18] <dannf> if you can juju ssh 0, then it might be that the bootstrap node is having problems contacting the other nodes by their hostname
[19:18] <adam_g> roaksoax, ping
[19:19] <roaksoax> adam_g: pong
[19:20] <adam_g> roaksoax, any harm in letting nodes IPMI endpoints get address from MAAS DHCP and live on the same network?
[19:20] <roaksoax> Preytell: did you add maas dns ip address to /etc/resolv.conf?
[19:20] <roaksoax> adam_g: none that I can think of.
[19:20] <adam_g> roaksoax, cool


[00:34] <pleia2> adding call for loco council nominees email to the fridge
[00:34] <pleia2> jose: if you're bored, could use some fridge comment cleanup
[00:35] <pleia2> (not sending this post to planet, because loco council blog already did)
[01:05] <jose> pleia2: taking a look!
[01:05] <pleia2> :)


[12:35] <BFTD> hi, I'm installing ubuntu server, and its at 85% and downloading something, how big is this download?
[12:41] <bje> how long is a piece of string?
[12:42] <BFTD> pretty
[12:42] <BFTD> long
[12:48] <Nafallo> 1mm - unlimited
[12:48] <BFTD> I figured it out
[12:49] <BFTD> ctrl+F2
[12:49] <BFTD> ps | more
[12:49] <BFTD> kill apt-get update
[12:51] <resident_moron> I lease a dedicated mach running fedora 3 and would like to install Ubuntu Server edition remotely
[12:51] <resident_moron> any pointers?
[12:51] <BFTD> yeah, how d oyou do it?
[12:53] <resident_moron> I am looking for instruction on how to remotely install Ubuntu Server Edition
[12:58] <lcdd> i don't know any guides, but debootstrap is what you will need
[01:06] <BFTD> ok so....how do I tell if apache is running?
[01:09] <VikJES> BFTD: you could check if there is a process "httpd" running
[01:10] <BFTD> yeah there isn't so...
[01:10] <BFTD> I guess not
[01:13] <Nafallo> I haven't either, since it's not named that way :-)
[01:14] <Nafallo> pgrep apache2
[02:56] <BFTD> how does one manually start apache2?
[02:57] <leonel>  /etc/init.d/apache2 start
[02:58] <keescook> BFTD: (i have to go afk, so this is a quick answer...)  make sure that /etc/default/apache2 has "NO_START=0" and then ... leonel is faster, yes, type that, prefixed with "sudo"
[02:58] <BFTD> ok
[02:58] <leonel> plop    I forgot  sudo  :)
[08:31] <UbuntuRocks> good day to you all - may i ask a question on automounting a usb drive on ubuntu server edgy?
[08:59] <UbuntuRocks> anyone here?
[01:32] <disposable> i've installed feisty-server on a computer with intel ICH7 controller and a sata harddrive running in native mode. grub-install went without error, yet now i get 'no bootable device'. any hints?
[01:40] <disposable> if i try to boot from an ubuntu cd and choose 'boot from first hard disk', then grub suddenly works
[05:38] <kupesoft> Does Ubuntu server have alsa?
[05:39] <kupesoft> I want to install ubuntu server + xubuntu
[05:44] <Nafallo> yes
[06:47] <brightedge> afternoon :)
[06:48] <brightedge> I'm hoping someone may be able to help.  I'm a linux b00n, have installed Kubuntu 7.04, and would like to run Zenoss.  The Zenoss site states that it runs on the Server version.  Is there a way to upgrade Kubuntu to Server?
[06:51] <brightedge> anyone?  :)
[07:00] <lcdd> i'm not sure what that upgrade would consist of. all ubuntu editions run the same software from the the same repository
[07:04] <lcdd> brightedge: i'd say go ahead and try it on your current installation
[07:22] <brightedge> lcdd:  thanks, that's what I've decided to do.  I've got most everything installed now.
[07:22] <brightedge> later :)
[08:24] <AlexC_> bje: hey, you here?
[10:08] <AlexC_> hey,
[11:05] <rev0> would anyone like to help with TLS on proftpd ?


[05:02] <barrydk> Morning everyone
[05:50] <mazal> Morning everyone
[05:56] <inetpro> goeie more
[05:57] <inetpro> Maaz: tell Kilos no it's just me who is slow, my interwebs are doing just fine
[05:57] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[05:57] <mazal> inetpro: Do you lnow how to change one's nickserv password ?
[05:57] <mazal> know*
[05:59] <inetpro> mazal: do you remember the old password?
[05:59] <mazal> nope
[05:59] <inetpro> hmm...
[05:59] <mazal> And is starred out in my config
[05:59] <mazal> It looks like setpass command if I understand the help correctly
[05:59] <inetpro> https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#sendpass
[06:01] <mazal> Ok , that will send the password , but how to change it
[06:01] <inetpro> https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#changepass
[06:02] <mazal> Thanx inetpro
[06:02] <mazal> Turned out I could just use set password cos I was already identified
[06:05] <mazal> Registered april 2011 , wow , I been here that long ?
[06:12] <mazal> More oom
[06:13] <Kilos> morre mazal  barrydk
[06:13] <Kilos> morning everyone else
[06:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> mornings
[06:56] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[06:56] <mazal> Morning ThatGraemeGuy
[07:59] <Kilos> eek http://is.gd/fW9GhH
[08:03] <andrewlsd> Kilos: buy 6, so that you can have RAID with a hot spare
[08:03] <Kilos> hahaha andrewlsd  what a dream that is
[08:15]  * andrewlsd wonders what to do with all that storage.
[08:15]  * andrewlsd starts selling cloud storage over his dsl link :-P
[08:15] <Kilos> large drives like that are good if you do data recoveries
[08:16] <andrewlsd> the bigger the drive, the more you lose when it fails!
[08:16] <andrewlsd> I'd rather have 2 x 1TB than 1 x 2TB.
[08:16] <Kilos> yes then you need one twice that size do do a rewvcovery with
[08:16] <andrewlsd> although, i'd prefer 2x2TB to 2x1TB ;)
[08:16] <andrewlsd> LVM. agregated.
[08:17] <andrewlsd> or btrfs
[08:23] <Kilos> im happy with this 1TB  and a second 1TB with an unused first 50g thats damaged but can still run kde with this same home on it
[08:23] <Kilos> no time or energy for recoveries
[08:41] <andrewlsd> ain
[08:42] <andrewlsd> ain't nobody got time fo dat
[08:42] <Kilos> lol i enjoyed doing it though
[08:42] <andrewlsd> :-)
[08:42]  * mazal shudups
[08:42] <Kilos> amazing what testdisk foremost and scalpel recver
[08:42] <andrewlsd> I wish you a speedy recovery ;-)
[08:44] <mazal> andrewlsd: One thing I still want to play with one day is raid
[08:44] <mazal> Don't know it at all though
[08:44] <mazal> Don't even know where to start
[08:45] <Kilos> that makes a mirror copy for if one drive crashes right?
[08:45] <mazal> Depends
[08:45] <mazal> Some modes split the data across both , that is the part I don't like
[08:45] <Kilos> good for servers
[08:45] <mazal> 1 Drive fails and both drives data is lost
[08:45] <Kilos> oh
[08:45] <MaNI> good for power users as well not just servers :)
[08:46] <MaNI> raid0 is just dumb
[08:46] <mazal> I would like the mirror one
[08:46] <MaNI> there are several to choose from :p I run raid 10 on my main dev box has worked well for me so far
[08:47] <mazal> BUT , one of my main tasks is paritioning and imaging my drives. And I don't think that can be done on a RAID setup
[08:47] <MaNI> it can
[08:48] <mazal> I must learn all these things one day
[08:49] <mazal> Do you still have to have a RAID card in your pc ?
[08:49] <MaNI> depends on your needs - linux software raid is pretty good for most purposes
[08:50] <mazal> Is that the fake raid I heard about ?
[08:50] <MaNI> fake raid probably refers to the horrid on motherboard thing that some motherboards have
[08:51] <mazal> ah ok
[08:51] <mazal> I will try find time to learn it one day
[08:53] <MaNI> thoguh rest assured there is nothing fake about it :p It is just basically referring to the fact that it runs on the CPU instead of having a dedicated chip to do the work
[08:54] <Kilos> i think i saw something about raid here in my bios, but dont think ill ever get to using it
[08:55] <MaNI> which for many cases is probably actually a good thing, the CPU overhead is negligible unless it is for some fancy data center or something, and not having to worry about things like (what happens if the raid controller fails and I can't find an identical replacement) are worth it :)
[09:05] <Kilos> wb CuttingEdge
[09:07] <CuttingEdge> Kilos: ta .. how goes ?
[09:07] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[09:08] <Kilos> inetpro  evening
[09:11] <CuttingEdge> Kilos: all good, no (major) complaints
[09:21] <elacheche> Guys!
[09:21] <Kilos> yes?
[09:21] <elacheche> Anyone knows if there is any FOSS project who have a technical terminology document?
[09:26] <Kilos> what is that elacheche  ?
[09:27] <elacheche> It's a document where you define some specific words in you project, like when you write "Free Software" in your documentation you say before that by that you mean "Free & Open Source Software and not Frewares"
[09:29] <Kilos> is there one that isnt foss?
[09:29] <Kilos> then just google for a foss alternative
[09:31] <elacheche> Ah no! It's a technical document about the software, so I was looking for some examples, and I thought that some FOSS projects should have one.. :D non-FOSS software/projects don't share that kind of documents..
[09:32] <Kilos> whew
[09:33] <Kilos> why dont you ask easy things like how to update with apt-get
[09:37] <elacheche> :D :D I shouldn't ask that..  Must be similar to Tunisia, a bit a least?
[09:39] <Kilos> nono you have to walk like an egyptian
[09:40] <elacheche> lool Kilos.; Why is that?? :p
[09:40] <elacheche> stickyboy, how like?
[09:40] <Kilos> when in rome
[09:40] <stickyboy> elacheche: Food. :P
[09:41] <Kilos> meat is meat in all counries
[09:41] <stickyboy> elacheche: Do you guys eat lots of Feta cheese, yogurt, etc?
[09:41] <stickyboy> Kilos: Barbarian!
[09:41] <elacheche> emmm.. I forgot, you only care about food :D
[09:41] <Kilos> hahaha
[09:41] <stickyboy> :P
[09:41] <elacheche> stickyboy, I don't think that we have the same food..
[09:42] <elacheche> Want me to try get someone from Ubuntu-eg in here to ask him?
[09:44] <stickyboy> elacheche: Definitely!
[09:44] <stickyboy> elacheche: Ok, then I definitely have to come to Tunisia to taste.
[09:44] <stickyboy> Don't worry, I'll come eventually. :P
[09:45] <elacheche> :D
[09:45] <stickyboy> elacheche: btw, are you a sysadmin or dev?
[09:46] <elacheche> I'm a sysadmin
[09:48] <stickyboy> elacheche: Nice.
[09:48]  * mazal mumbles
[09:48] <stickyboy> Me too.
[09:48] <elacheche> cool :D
[09:49] <elacheche> I shouldn't be surprised x) All SysAdmins love food x)
[09:52] <elacheche> stickyboy, let's wait for someone → https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntueg/permalink/10152957241133869/
[09:54] <stickyboy> elacheche: hah, there's an Ubuntu Egypt? :P
[09:54] <stickyboy> Nice.
[09:54] <stickyboy> I block facebook in /etc/hosts so I can't see that page. ;)
[09:54] <stickyboy> I *fffffffffff* hate Facebook.
[09:54] <elacheche> I do hate it too.. But it's a "good" way to promote ubuntu..
[09:55] <stickyboy> :P
[10:23] <elacheche> stickyboy, do you use logstash or fluentd?
[10:25] <stickyboy> elacheche: No, great question though
[10:25] <stickyboy> I've been meaning to.
[10:28] <elacheche> I sick with letting my devs having ssh access to my servers to see tomcat logs.. I need to setup one of them or something like them.. The thing is that I don't like the fact that they use their own client app.. I'm looking for something that uses ssh to get the logs.. and in one direction, getting the logs from the my servers to the logging server.. Not sending them from the client to the server, I don't wont my logging server to be
[10:28] <elacheche> accessible via the web
[10:29] <stickyboy> elacheche: I know that feeling.
[10:30] <elacheche> Yep..
[10:30] <stickyboy> I provision our servers with Ansible, and I gave up trying to manage everything on the app servers (vhosts, configs, web apps, etc) because the devs just change shit.
[10:30] <stickyboy> I just manage the base stuff like iptables, security updates, sudo users, etc.
[10:31] <stickyboy> But yeah, my devs have access to their servers. :\
[10:33] <stickyboy> Luckily all of my servers are segregated... I give them VMs instead of letting a bunch of apps / devs / users fight each other in one environment.
[10:35] <elacheche> I'm trying to change my bash script by Ansible, but my devs don't have access on the servers.. they can only use 2 commands :D The first is my DEPLOY script, and the second is tailf + ccze to see beautiful logs.. and recently I started doing that by using the "command" option in the authorized_keys file..
[10:37] <elacheche> Thinking of creating a build server based on docker and make my devs configure it then when there is a working build server they send me me the docker file, but am still working on that theory x)
[10:37] <elacheche> Am on #logstash & #fluentd, asked that question, and nobody seems to be alive x(
[10:38] <TinuvaMac> elacheche: have you checked out graylog yet?
[10:38] <TinuvaMac> why not just send the logs to a syslog server like graylog2 via syslog protocol
[10:38] <TinuvaMac> seems easier imho
[10:39] <elacheche> Nope.. TinuvaMac What I did is that knew about elasticsearch + logstash + kibana, I was about to look how to install them when the word "fluentd" popped out and my brain start generating all those questions :D
[10:39] <elacheche> Let me check that graylog
[10:40] <TinuvaMac> well even if you just send the logs via syslog to another server where syslog listens for incoming ports, at least they dont have to ssh to production servers, just to the syslog server
[10:41] <elacheche> I see nice idea.. need to google that more :D
[10:41] <elacheche> Thanks dude ;:)
[10:42] <Kilos> you see elacheche  , this is the most helpful channel on irc
[10:42] <elacheche> Yep :D :D
[10:42] <elacheche> In #ubuntu-tn we have Redhat & Drual guys more than ubuntu guys x)
[10:43] <Kilos> hi theShirbiny
[10:43] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[10:43] <elacheche> stickyboy, theShirbiny is from #ubuntu-eg :D
[10:43] <theShirbiny> hey Kilos, thanks :D
[10:43] <elacheche> have fun :D
[10:44] <Kilos> aha thats good to know, theShirbiny  you havent joined #ubuntu-africa
[10:45] <Kilos> ive been hunting for egypt peeps
[10:45] <theShirbiny> yeah, if you have any questions just ask away
[10:45] <Kilos> stickyboy  go
[10:45] <elacheche> stickyboy, Are you eating dude?
[10:45] <Kilos> he wants to know what food you guys eat
[10:45] <elacheche> Kilos, he must be busy by eating something x)
[10:45] <Kilos> he is going there soon
[10:46] <Kilos> yeah he just eats and moans all the time
[10:46] <theShirbiny> lol
[10:46] <Kilos> oh and listens to rap
[10:48] <Kilos> theShirbiny  while you wait for him to wake up look at http://ubuntu-africa.info
[10:49] <elacheche> TinuvaMac, what do you think about this → http://www.vmdoh.com/blog/centralizing-logs-lumberjack-logstash-and-elasticsearch ?
[10:49] <elacheche> stickyboy, you too check the linl
[10:49] <elacheche> lik*
[10:52] <Kilos> oh my , he ate so much his eyes pulled closed
[10:53] <TinuvaMac> elacheche: i havent looked at that setup yet, but it looks good
[10:54] <TinuvaMac> i like the lumberjack as rsyslog replacement
[10:57] <elacheche> My main goal is to minimize the packages installation on my servers, I don't like to install logCLIENTS.. rsyslog is alreayd installed I think.. → Never used it before
[10:57] <elacheche> And to GET from my servers, not to push from them to my logServer :/
[11:00] <TinuvaMac> well that is up to you
[11:02] <theShirbiny> Kilos: about the food, it really depends in where he's going to stay, if in Cairo or in Alex he won't have any trouble finding any type of food
[11:03] <Kilos> stickyboy  ^^
[11:04] <Kilos> ty theShirbiny  i think he got a bit busy, if you can hang here he will come back when he gets a break
[11:05] <theShirbiny> yeah, I'll be here for a while
[11:06] <Kilos> thanks
[11:09] <theShirbiny> np :D
[11:09] <Kilos> :)
[11:34] <stickyboy> elacheche: Yeah I was at lunch. hahahahaha
[11:34] <Kilos> hahaha
[11:34] <stickyboy> theShirbiny: I'm all about feta cheese.
[11:34] <stickyboy> btw, I'm coming to Cairo in a few weeks.
[11:35]  * stickyboy is in Nairobi, Kenya.
[11:45] <theShirbiny> stickyboy: you'll find it in any supermarkt
[11:45] <theShirbiny> just don't eat anything from the street and you'll be fine
[11:47] <theShirbiny> stickyboy: ^
[11:59]  * mazal is bored
[11:59] <mazal> Nothing broken in a long time
[11:59] <Kilos> lol
[12:00] <mazal> No re-installs
[12:00] <mazal> No new installs
[12:00] <Kilos> work on your linux gaming article
[12:00] <mazal> Will have to fiddle with something
[12:00] <Kilos> the one you started in trello remember?
[12:00] <mazal> Apart from MS messing up my Win 7 everything keeps working , at home that is
[12:01] <mazal> Oom ek het erg plug verloor vir daai
[12:01] <Kilos> ai!
[12:01] <mazal> Sukkel om courage te  kry vir al die tikwerk
[12:01] <Kilos> hahaha
[12:02] <mazal> And even the gaming itself. Can't remember the last time I started up anything else than minetest and minecraft
[12:02] <Kilos> sjoe, old age
[12:02] <mazal> Think I must fiddle with my server
[12:02] <mazal> Install something else on it
[12:03] <mazal> Something I haven't tried before hmmmmmm
[12:03] <theShirbiny> Gentoo!
[12:03] <mazal> Debian too difficult , mint maybe
[12:03] <mazal> Gentoo ?
[12:03] <Kilos> haha
[12:04] <Kilos> that will keep you busy
[12:04] <theShirbiny> yeah, I would install gentoo hardened on all of my servers if I can
[12:04] <Kilos> Maaz  google gentoo
[12:04] <Maaz> Kilos: "Welcome – Gentoo Linux" https://www.gentoo.org/ :: "Downloads – Gentoo Linux" https://www.gentoo.org/downloads/ :: "About Gentoo – Gentoo Linux" https://www.gentoo.org/get-started/about/ :: "Handbook:Main Page - Gentoo Wiki" https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:Main_Page :: "Gentoo Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
[12:04] <Maaz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux :: "Gentoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
[12:04] <mazal> That sounds above my fireplace
[12:04] <mazal> theShirbiny: Keep in mind I am low skill user
[12:05] <theShirbiny> it's really flexible and you can lock packages versions as you like
[12:05] <theShirbiny> then you better stay away from gentoo :p
[12:05] <mazal> lol
[12:05] <Kilos> lol
[12:05] <mazal> Maybe I must give mint a try
[12:05] <mazal> Hear so much about it
[12:06] <mazal> Isn't there an Ubuntu mint now ?
[12:06] <Kilos> ubuntu mate
[12:06] <mazal> Ah , mate
[12:06] <mazal> Maybe try mate mate
[12:09] <Kilos> mint mate
[12:09] <Kilos> or ubuntu mate
[12:09] <Kilos> gnome 2 style
[12:10] <Kilos> try kde man
[12:10] <Kilos> and give it a few weeks trial before giving up
[12:12] <mazal> I am on kde , why you think nothing is breaking ?
[12:12] <Kilos> oh ya i forgot
[12:13] <Kilos> i battle so long to get you to try it it almost became habit
[12:13] <mazal> hahaha
[12:14] <mazal> You know , some days I miss goold old gnome2
[12:14] <mazal> good*
[12:14] <mazal> That classic old school look
[12:14] <Kilos> theShirbiny  whats with peeps love for facebook to the extent they forget to use irc?
[12:15] <Kilos> can you ask your loco guys for me
[12:16] <Kilos> maybe ill go see you there for a bit
[12:16] <theShirbiny> Kilos: i don't really get facebook or any social media sites in that matter, I only have a facebook account because i *have* to
[12:17] <Kilos> aha
[12:17] <Kilos> here im hunting all ubuntu and linux users in africa and you all hiding in facebook :D
[12:18] <theShirbiny> hunting? for what?
[12:18]  * theShirbiny runs
[12:18] <Kilos> no man go read http://slexy.org/view/s2aEqtz90N
[12:19] <Kilos> thats the message in #ubuntu-africa
[12:21] <Kilos> peeps are scared to join us looks like
[12:21] <theShirbiny> wow only 20 nicks?
[12:23]  * Kilos waves to superfly
[12:31] <theShirbiny> ok guys, I have to go now , I'll be back in ~6h
[12:32] <Kilos> cool ty for joining uis theShirbiny
[12:32] <theShirbiny> I'll be afk
[12:34] <stickyboy> Adios.
[12:34] <Kilos> adios
[12:34] <stickyboy> theShirbiny: You do Gentoo on servers? :P
[12:35] <stickyboy> I love Arch... but never on a production server haha.
[12:40] <mazal> Bye everyone , have a nice evening
[12:41] <Kilos> cheers mazal
[12:41] <barrydk> Bye bye
[12:41] <Kilos> you too
[12:41]  * mazal is sad now :(
[12:41] <Kilos> cheers barrydk
[12:41] <Kilos> lekker aand
[12:41] <Kilos> why you sad?
[12:41] <mazal> Will tell you tomorrow oom
[12:41] <Kilos> ok
[12:42] <stickyboy> Lekker
[12:42] <Kilos> hahaha thats strange coming from you
[14:37] <Kilos> uh oh, goosie broke it
[14:38]  * Kilos waits for hibana to come fix it
[14:41] <stickyboy> GitHub finally supports ED25519 SSH keys.
[14:41] <stickyboy> go go go update all teh things.
[14:41] <Kilos> haha
[14:42] <Kilos> hibana ping
[15:55] <georgelappies> hi all
[15:59] <Kilos> hi georgelappies
[16:24] <inetpro> hmm...
[16:25] <Kilos> wb inetpro  what broke
[16:25] <Kilos> i even called hibana to fix it
[16:25] <inetpro> thanks Kilos
[16:25] <inetpro> who kicked me off the interwebs?
[16:25] <Kilos> plus2 also went
[16:26] <inetpro> Kilos: no worries, he'll be back
[16:26] <inetpro> some time from now at least
[16:26] <Kilos> you ok old man?
[16:27]  * inetpro is all good
[16:27] <Kilos> yay
[16:44] <Kilos> aw
[16:48] <Kilos> hi Tonberry
[17:03] <Tonberry> hi
[17:11] <gremble> Good evening
[17:19] <Kilos> hi gremble  hows things
[17:22] <gremble> I am doing well thanks and you Kilos ?
[17:22] <Kilos> good ty just cold
[17:22] <gremble> That's not so bad
[17:23] <Kilos> lol
[17:52] <georgelappies> hi
[17:52] <georgelappies> will len(string) return the actual length plus one?
[17:52] <georgelappies> so len(one) will be 4?
[17:52] <gremble> No
[17:53] <Kilos> hi georgelappies
[17:53] <georgelappies> hi
[17:53] <gremble> I don't even know what language you are talking about, but that would be inappropriate behaviour for any
[17:53] <georgelappies> python gremble
[17:54] <gremble> string indexes are usually counted from 0, so when accessing a specific index, that should be taken into consideration
[17:54] <gremble> However, it should always give you the number of characters in the string
[17:54] <georgelappies> ok,
[17:54] <gremble> That is why you should make sure what kind of characters you could get in your string, because these include non-printable characters like \n, \r, \t and such
[17:55] <georgelappies> if reading the strings from a file, with one word per line will with open('names.txt','r') as f:
[17:55] <georgelappies>         for word in f:
[17:55] <georgelappies> handle the newline character as an extra>
[17:56] <gremble> Yes
[17:56] <gremble> Depending on whether it is a unix or dos file
[17:56] <georgelappies> aah, ok. Thought I was going crazy.
[17:56] <gremble> dos files end lines with \n\r
[17:56] <georgelappies> I am on unix
[17:56] <gremble> Just \n then
[17:57] <georgelappies> thanks gremble
[17:57] <gremble> You're welcome georgelappies
[18:22] <inetpro> superfly: do you use the KOrganiser Reminder Daemon?
[18:22] <inetpro> or the Akonadi PIM service
[18:23] <inetpro> what I actually want to know from anyone is, is it worth it?
[18:23]  * inetpro looking at ways to disable the daemon from even running
[18:24] <inetpro> using resources for no reason
[18:26] <gremble> Anyone here familiar with the Lambda luminaries group?
[18:27] <inetpro> not me
[18:29] <gremble> Functional programming uh.. group I guess. Here in Pretoria
[18:29] <inetpro> looks like it the KOrganizer daemon is started from the file /usr/share/autostart/korgac.desktop
[18:30] <gremble> Kill it
[18:30] <gremble> See if something breaks
[18:30] <gremble> :P
[18:30] <inetpro> excactly my thoughts
[18:30] <gremble> Stuff like that is why I don't like using prepackaged distro's. Never know whether things have inter-operational dependency
[18:30] <inetpro> but maybe there's a way to just disable it... or even uninstall
[18:32] <inetpro> dpkg -S /usr/share/autostart/korgac.desktop says it is part of the korganizer package
[18:33] <MaNI> I'm running okay without it here on gentoo, akonadi and the obsession with semantic everything is what made entire kde4 so bumpy
[18:34] <MaNI> various programs like kmail stop functioning properly without it, if you don't need them you are probably okay
[18:34] <superfly> inetpro: no, I threw that junk out when it deleted my e-mail, and otherwise lost 8 years of mail
[18:35] <inetpro> uninstalled with 'apt-get purge korganizer'
[18:35] <gremble> Use mutt
[18:35] <gremble> :P
[18:36] <MaNI> you can turn it off now in system settings apparently as opposed to removing it entirely, though I'm happier to have it off entirely in case it randomly comes back on again
[18:38] <MaNI> kmail was so nice in kde3, in my opinion best linux email client available at that point in time, and then in kde4 upgrade it lost half its features and all my emails because of some over ambituous 'semantic desktop' project - so unfortunate
[18:39] <MaNI> multiple years later and its still an unstable mess that can't be trusted
[18:44] <inetpro> MaNI: yep, a real sad situation
[18:44] <superfly> MaNI: pretty much.
[18:44] <gremble> I haven't used email locally in my entire life
[18:45] <gremble> Ever
[18:45] <superfly> KMail in KDE 4 was fine, until KMail 2, when they shoved Akonadi on us
[18:45] <superfly> now I run my own mail server, with RoundCube for a frontend
[18:45] <MaNI> gremble, good plan I guess
[18:46] <gremble> Convenience allowed by gmail
[18:46] <inetpro> would be nice if we could have a stable calendar app integrated with the clock display on the panel
[18:48] <Kilos> inetpro  ?
[18:48] <inetpro> after all these years I still don't see why we need calendar functionality integrated with the email app
[18:49] <Kilos> my clock shows date and time in jhb and UTC if i hover muse over it
[18:49] <inetpro> with a proper API the calendar should be able to work independant of email
[18:49] <Kilos> and if i click the clock i see the months calender with holidays
[18:49] <inetpro> Kilos: the calendar is where you book meetings
[18:50] <Kilos> oh not a monthly type calender
[18:53] <Kilos> haha corrie very unhappy with mtn hey
[18:55] <Kilos> hi superfly  haha yeah luckily neelsie helped out, i didnt know how to get onto panet on my own
[18:55] <Kilos> thats why i got friends here
[18:59] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy  mining?
[18:59] <inetpro> ai!
[18:59] <Kilos> what?
[19:00] <inetpro> you getting me confused with all these mixed messages
[19:00] <Kilos> which one now
[19:00] <Kilos> sorry goosie
[19:00] <gremble> Both of you seem to be getting old
[19:00] <gremble> :P
[19:01] <Kilos> hahaha
[19:01] <inetpro> who's corrie and why would he be angry with mtn?
[19:01] <Kilos> corrie206
[19:01] <Kilos> the tweet king
[19:01] <inetpro> maybe he needs anger management treatment?
[19:02] <Kilos> lol
[19:02] <Kilos> can we also say that @MTNza has one of THE WORST websites ever. Your search isn't working.   Just don't let CellC buy out your contract
[19:04] <gremble> are
[19:04] <gremble> Apparently I cannot do the English
[19:05] <Kilos> im happy with telkom
[19:05] <inetpro> I must say, Telkom has improved a lot actually
[19:06] <Kilos> yeah very stable, im just waiting for them to speed up my tower
[19:06] <inetpro> still has much more room for improvement but way better than others
[19:06] <Kilos> they say they are working on it
[19:07] <Kilos> cry for me on thursday night hey
[19:07] <Kilos> meets at 10pm and midnight
[19:07] <gremble> I just found out a really funny thing. 1 is coprime with itself. (Two integers are coprime if they share no common factors(excluding 1))
[19:07] <inetpro> if Telkom had better countrywide coverage I would jump ship to it entirely
[19:09] <inetpro> gremble: says who?
[19:09] <gremble> The axioms of number theory
[19:10] <gremble> Granted, it is not really funny. Not even mildly bemusing I think
[19:10] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:10] <gremble> But bear with me, I've had a long day
[19:10] <Kilos> lol old age
[19:11]  * inetpro had to go look up the meaning of the word axiom
[19:11] <gremble> Wrote my first exam for the semester today :/ That is why I am here talking shit again. I have a couple of days of before calculus
[19:11] <Kilos> off
[19:12] <gremble> Could've just asked, inetpro. It is a truism, a definition. One of the playing rules by which you can do things
[19:12] <Kilos> howd the exam go gremble  ?
[19:12] <gremble> Exactly kilos
[19:12] <superfly> gremble: there are debates as to whether 1 is a prime number or not ;-)\
[19:12] <gremble> Went ok.  But it is mostly used in its own class because it simplifies a lot of theorums if we don't make it eligabile for primality
[19:13] <Kilos> gremble  didnt you say the other day you looking for a job
[19:13] <gremble> However, that would still stand, because all prime numbers are also coprime to all numbers, therefore 1 would still be coprime to itself
[19:13] <gremble> Kilos: I am looking for a part-time job so that I can study and work
[19:14] <Kilos> there is a job lemme see if i can find the mail
[19:14] <Kilos> you can talk to the guy
[19:25] <inetpro> Kilos: when is our next meeting here?
[19:26] <Kilos> oh my on my old man day
[19:28] <Kilos> 23 june
[19:28] <inetpro> ah, thanks
[20:12] <Kilos> ty inetpro
[20:13] <inetpro> Kilos: I guess the sjambok won't help to force someone else to do it :-)
[20:13] <Kilos> lol
[20:14] <inetpro> on that note, it's time to hit the sack
[20:14] <inetpro> good night everyone
[20:16] <Kilos> night my pro
[20:16] <Kilos> sleep tight
[20:17] <gremble> Domestic violence is frowned upon
[20:23] <Kilos> lol
[20:23] <gremble> Chaning your mind from decimal to hexadecimal on the fly is hard. 14 = a^2 + 5
[20:23] <Kilos> ouch
[20:24] <gremble> No, 14 = a^2*5 sorry
[20:24] <gremble> I should probably not be trying to do this now
[20:24] <gremble> haha
[20:24] <Kilos> im ready to crash too
[20:27] <gremble> Have fun
[20:36] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:36] <Kilos> gremble  get some rest


[13:33] <knome> i've written a wordpress-plugin to manage countdown banner settings (we can turn the "release switch" on/off ourself) and rewritten the countdown banner script to accommodate to that
[13:34] <knome> i'm going to ask IS to create us a subdomain countdown.xubuntu.org, which will simply output you the latest countdown image
[13:34]  * smartboyhw likes a countdown:P
[13:35] <knome> now, the question is: do we need a feature to overwrite this image randomly; eg. if beta2 is released, we could temporarily point to another image file
[13:36] <knome> (i was thinking that we could try to keep the url online and "alive" all the time, even in the beginning of the cycle. these temporarily images could then be anything; telling people to follow our twitter feed or so
[13:37] <knome> anyway, bbl
[13:38] <knome> pleia2, ^ comments plz
[15:44] <pleia2> knome: seems like a lot of work maintaining so many banners, not sure it's worth it long term
[15:48] <knome> pleia2, i'm not sure if you understood...
[15:48] <knome> pleia2, currently, if you use the banner at xubuntu.org/countdown, it says 12.04 is out
[15:48] <knome> pleia2, and of course, it should soon start counting down to 12.10 - which we have done previously
[15:48] <knome> pleia2, and that will be done, and in the future, we only need IS to upload our image files, like before
[15:48] <knome> pleia2, but in addition, the WP plugin could allow us to use temporary images with no IS
[15:49] <knome> pleia2, eg. a month after 12.10 release, we can create a single banner that says "give us feedback", and from the web UI make xubuntu.org/countdown serve that instead of "12.10 is out!"
[15:53] <knome> pleia2, and when we want, simply remove the link, and it'll say "12.10 is out!" again, as scheduled byt the normal countdown stuff
[15:53] <knome> pleia2, we don't NEED to have these "special" banners if we don't want, but i can make it possible to use those if we want to
[15:53] <knome> pleia2, otherwise we can only ever have normal countdown banners (which is fine too if you think that's enough)
[15:55] <pleia2> ah, well if we don't need to use them then it's ok :) I was just worried we'd end up with having alpha1 banners sitting around if you got busy and couldn't make another
[15:56] <pleia2> (some weeks it's hard enough to even write our release notes, let alone make new pretty banner)
[15:56] <knome> lol, no
[15:57] <knome> the thing is
[15:57] <knome> we only have the special banner if we set one up
[15:57] <knome> and for the normal countdown, we will have had to upload things via IS
[15:57] <pleia2> yeah
[15:57] <knome> but i'm not even sure myself if we need this
[15:57] <knome> sounds like advertising
[15:58] <knome> especially if people use the banner on their website, some self-advertising can be a bit intimidating
[15:58] <pleia2> I've been happy enough with the existing ones
[15:58] <knome> ok, good then
[16:00] <knome> i'll push what i have now, and we should be flying soon
[16:00] <pleia2> yay :)
[17:57] <pleia2> http://dc.ubuntu-us.org/node/39 :)
[17:57] <knome> :)
[17:59] <pleia2> it's actually not very xubuntu after sweets is installed, but still
[18:01] <knome> lol
[18:01] <knome> more xubuntu than windows
[18:01] <knome> again, bbl
[18:04] <pleia2> good enough for me!
[19:14] <pleia2> knome: I vote we do tourist stuff on Friday, and while doing tourist stuff we'll talk about xubuntu too ;)
[19:17] <knome> worksforme
[19:17] <pleia2> yay
[19:18] <pleia2> "look, a mermaid! ...yes, I agree that we should continue not to have birds on our background image"
[19:18] <knome> :D
[19:59] <astraljava> Well, how about mermaids for 13.04?
[20:02] <knome> astraljava, only if you'll model
[20:03] <astraljava> I'll have to learn how to grow fish scales, first.
[20:03] <Sysi> how will that fit "rampant rabbit"
[20:04] <knome> i suppose badly without lube
[20:04]  * knome hides
[20:05] <Sysi> 10.10 should've been "merry mermaid"
[20:18] <SkippersBoss> i do know we re in the 21th century now but i do not think xu needs to be xxx rated
[20:19] <SkippersBoss> bad enough that ubuntu is moving into amazon
[20:19] <SkippersBoss> dont get me wrong /me loves amazon but uts something i choose myself not have forced upon me


[15:17] <luyang> hello there ubuntu people
[15:17] <luyang> I've moved to Ubuntu today
[15:17] <luyang> form Windows 7
[15:18] <luyang> is there a way to see all running programs?
[15:18] <luyang> like in a task bar
[15:20] <AlanBell> luyang: well they are indicated in the launcher on the left
[15:21] <AlanBell> with the little triangles, but that also includes stuff that is pinned there and not currently running
[15:21] <AlanBell> you can press super+w to zoom out all the windows
[15:24] <luyang> I have a question mark on my Eclipse icon
[15:24] <luyang> it's not eclipse icon but a "broken" question mark icon
[15:25] <luyang> so I know a lot about the common unix command line tools
[15:25] <luyang> what else should I read to learn about the advantages with Ubuntu compared to Windows?
[15:26] <luyang> so my eclipse seems broken
[15:26] <luyang> I wanna kill it
[15:26] <luyang> pkill -9 killed something but not the eclipse weird stuff
[15:30] <AlanBell> hmm, not sure
[15:30] <AlanBell> these might be better questions for the main #ubuntu support channel