[00:29] <tedg> robert_ancell, I don't think it's actually a u8 branch, it is this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubuntu-app-launch/xmir-support
[00:30] <tedg> robert_ancell, I then made a xeyes.desktop that set the XMir flag and then did "ubuntu-app-launch xeyes"
[00:30] <tedg> robert_ancell, Under Unity 8
[00:33] <robert_ancell> tedg, thanks
[00:39] <tedg> robert_ancell, I think that running under U8 is probably the issue, not the UAL branch. Are you able to run xeyes under U8 or with the demo server?
[00:39] <robert_ancell> tedg, I can run xeyes under U8 using mir_demo_server
[00:39] <robert_ancell> More complex stuff is crashing which I'm trying to find out why at the moment
[00:40] <robert_ancell> tedg, is your stuff running a WM?
[00:40] <tedg> Wait, so you're doing: System Compositor → U8 → Demo Server → XMir → Xeyes ?
[00:41] <tedg> No window management, just Xeyes right now. I was told that Xeyes didn't need a WM.
[00:41] <robert_ancell> Sorry, I mean just running XMir directly. No demo server
[00:41] <robert_ancell> i.e. ssh in, run XMir, run xeyes
[00:41] <robert_ancell> Confused with running demo server on my laptop
[00:41] <tedg> Ah, okay.
[00:41] <tedg> Need to put a kiddo to bed, brb
[00:42] <robert_ancell> np
[00:42] <robert_ancell> I'll be taking a lunch break in a few mins anyway
[01:00] <tedg> robert_ancell, So it's not in my level of the stack to run the WM, that's ChrisTownsend's part. Not sure if that's the issue, but was hoping it'd work without to keep things simple.
[05:07] <pitti> Good morning
[06:09] <larsu> morning!
[06:13] <pitti> hey larsu, how are you?
[06:20] <larsu> pitti: great thanks! And you?
[06:20] <pitti> larsu: quite fine, thanks!
[06:37] <mitya57> Laney: nope :(
[06:39] <mitya57> When Alberts (Flashback developer) tried to take it over, they said something like "old name is confusing, fork it under a different name"
[06:39] <mitya57> Confusing in sense "gnome-screensaver != screensaver used in gnome"
[06:44] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:56] <seb128> larsu, bug #1473029 do you know what debug info would be useful if it's a messaging indicator issue?
[06:57] <larsu> seb128: information on how to reproduce :D
[06:58] <seb128> larsu, yeah, which people have not, it happens randomnly
[06:59] <larsu> seb128: right. I guess first would be to find out whether it is a bug in indicator-messages or unity8. I'll comment
[06:59] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[07:00]  * larsu checks if there has been any activity on i-messages recently
[07:00] <seb128> and yeah, my question was if there is any log that could help in figuring that out
[07:00] <seb128> I don't think so
[07:00] <larsu> seb128: attaching .cache/upstart/indicator-messages.log won't hurt, though
[07:03] <seb128> right
[07:35] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:35] <seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
[07:38] <pitti> seb128: prima, danke! und Dir? kein Regen mehr?
[07:38] <seb128> auch gut, danke!
[07:39] <seb128> nee, sonne is zuruck ;-)
[07:39] <seb128> ist
[07:42] <larsu> haha :)
[07:52] <seb128> :-p
[08:00] <willcooke> morning all
[08:00] <willcooke> hi TheMuso
[08:00] <larsu> morning willcooke !
[08:01] <willcooke> what up larsu
[08:01] <larsu> sky?
[08:01]  * larsu sees himself out
[08:01] <willcooke> ;p
[08:02] <larsu> all good, and you?
[08:02] <Laney> greetings
[08:02] <pitti> hey Laney
[08:02] <pitti> Laney: FYI, I'm currently upstartifying the worker bits
[08:03] <pitti> which turns out to be a lot harder than I thought, but I'll hack on a bit
[08:03] <willcooke> Laney, ham update?
[08:04] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney
[08:05] <Laney> hey pitti, to add 'respawn'?
[08:05] <Laney> willcooke: didn't go :(
[08:05] <willcooke> ha, probably for the best
[08:05] <larsu> morning Laney!
[08:05] <pitti> Laney: no, that works fine; but I'm struggling with adding a "stop" script to a "task" upstart job
[08:05] <willcooke> larsu, I'll listen to the radio and see if they have a report
[08:05] <willcooke> erm, Laney ^^
[08:05] <willcooke> sorry larsu
[08:05] <Laney> there's no news on #hamdover
[08:05] <Laney> suspicious
[08:05] <pitti> Laney: which seems to be impossible; there is no RemainAfterExit= equivalent in upstart
[08:05] <willcooke> XD
[08:05] <larsu> willcooke: was slightly confused for 2 seconds
[08:05] <larsu> glad that's over now
[08:06] <pitti> Laney: anyway, no mass-restart of the workers for now; one can restart them individually
[09:55] <larsu> Laney: that vte issue is slightly annoying..
[09:55] <Laney> no shit
[09:56] <Laney> annoying is trading bugs by reverting commits
[09:56] <larsu> ya....
[09:56] <larsu> I guess because this fix came later?
[09:57] <Laney> later than what?
[09:57] <larsu> the other one
[09:57] <larsu> ah I guess the other bug was introduced by this commit?
[09:57] <Laney> ya
[09:57] <Laney> not that I really understand it
[09:58] <larsu> me neither
[09:58] <Laney> it only started once gnome-terminal was built against the new vte
[09:58] <Laney> which is weird
[09:58] <Laney> and it only happens sometimes which is also weird
[09:59] <Laney> and I don't even understand why it should happen at all unless the theme is overriding padding on VteTerminal
[09:59] <Laney> meh
[10:00] <larsu> even then it shouldn't happen...
[10:02] <Laney> :|
[10:04] <larsu> ya... looks to me like the problem is that vte doesn't calculate the border/padding correctly
[10:05] <larsu> it *should* break any time the theme changes settings
[10:05]  * larsu checks
[10:05] <Laney> great if you can fix it more robustly
[10:08]  * larsu doesn't promise anything L)
[10:08] <larsu> s/L/;
[10:11] <larsu> hehe: Revert "Revert "Add the style [...]""
[10:19] <mzanetti> hey, who's owning the unity8-desktop-session-mir pckage?
[10:26] <willcooke> mzanetti, I think bregma
[10:27] <willcooke> at least he was
[10:28] <mzanetti> thanks
[10:28] <willcooke> yw!
[10:28] <mzanetti> bregma, is there a reason why unity8-desktop-session-mir doesn't pull in mir-graphics-drivers-desktop ?
[10:29] <mzanetti> maybe it can't? but I get many reports of people missing the drivers package and then it's not working for them
[11:37] <bregma> mzanetti, if you're using an older version of unity8-desktop-session-mir that does not have the workaround for the missing Mir dependecies, you need to upgrade to a newer version of the package
[11:37] <desrt> morning, peeps
[11:42] <larsu> desrt: morning!
[11:42] <larsu> what's up?
[11:44] <desrt> trying to find a citation for the "it's always morning on the internet" thing :)
[11:44] <mzanetti> :D
[11:44] <anpok_> desrt: try the irc logs of #ubuntu-desktop
[11:44] <desrt> :)
[11:44] <desrt> i am trying to explain this concept to some doubtful friends
[11:54] <davmor2> desrt: just tell them to say afternoon all and see how shunned they are ;)
[12:00] <Laney> willcooke: time to tune in
[12:34] <Laney> mitya57: want to push a fix for me anyway? :)
[13:09] <Laney> willcooke: now!
[13:12] <willcooke> bah in a meeting
[13:12] <Laney> hahaha
[13:12] <Laney> there is a weird twist
[13:12] <Laney> you'll have to iplayer it
[13:17] <seb128> Laney, what are you guys watching?
[13:18] <larsu> something British
[13:18] <Laney> news of the great ham handover that took place in nottingham yesterday
[13:18] <larsu> oh. did you end up going?
[13:18] <Laney> nein
[13:18] <seb128> why not?
[13:18] <larsu> schade
[13:18] <Laney> lazy
[13:18] <seb128> you don't like free meat?
[13:18] <Laney> it's like 10 minutes ride
[13:18] <larsu> ah, way too much
[13:18] <larsu> for some ham
[13:18] <Laney> yeah, hills and everything
[13:19] <seb128> #gtk discussions, shrug
[13:20] <seb128> "- do we know of any user of that code out of nautilus
[13:20] <seb128> - yes elementary filemanager
[13:20] <seb128> - that's fine we have somebody who can patch that
[13:20] <seb128> - anything else? if not that's fine, don't bother about providing compat, we can just change thing in an incompatible way"
[13:20] <seb128> grumpf
[13:22] <larsu> seb128: what is this about?
[13:23] <seb128> larsu, discussions about the gtksidebar
[13:23] <seb128> on #gtk+ an hour ago
[13:23] <seb128> seems like they decided that it's better if they keep it working for existing users at the end
[13:24] <seb128> but the mentality of "let's check things we care about and if there is none then it's fine to land incompatible changes" is grrrr
[13:24]  * larsu reads
 feaneron, aah ok
[13:25] <seb128>  mclasen, hey, feaneron and me were discussing about the other-locations
[13:25] <seb128>  mclasen, so... currently, if some gtk+ client updates to gtk3.18 the sidebar doesn't work as expected
[13:25] <seb128>
[13:25] <seb128> read from there
[13:25] <seb128> "<csoriano> mclasen, so either, we provide a legacy mode, or we make at some point before 3.18 the otther-location widget public API"
[13:25] <seb128>
[13:26] <seb128> "<mclasen> csoriano: 'could be' doesn't help - we don't want invest tons of effort into a legacy mode if nobody is 'actually' going to benefit from it"
[13:26] <seb128>
[13:26] <seb128> enough copying
[13:26] <seb128> but that statement summarize it
[13:27] <larsu> yeah... that's annoying
[13:27] <larsu> GtkPlacesSidebar is kinda weird anyway
[13:28] <seb128> I'm sure they have good reasons to want to change it
[13:28] <seb128> it's just that their "it doesn't affect anyone, we can change it" is just true
[13:28] <seb128> there are random devs out there that got bitten every time they do that and that loose trust in the toolkit
[13:28] <larsu> ya, indeed
[13:29] <seb128> is just not*
[13:30] <larsu> I think it's all lost at this point
[13:30] <seb128> yeah, I guess so
[13:31] <seb128> anyway we need to be careful next time we update gtk
[13:31] <larsu> there are almost no apps outside of the gnome ones that can (or want to) keep up
[13:31] <larsu> yes. Thanks for noticing
[13:31] <seb128> yw!
[14:00] <commander_> hello i am packing a Qt webkit based application am confused what should i put as dependencies my app executable ldd output is here in pastebin http://pastebin.com/mfgdrEtz
[14:00] <ogra_> commander_, cross pasting the same line in all ubuntu channels isnt gonna help
[14:01] <commander_> ogra_, then how can i get help
[14:02] <mitya57> Laney, push to Ubuntu? Which one?
[14:02] <ogra_> you could go to #ubuntu-app-devel which would be the right channel for such questions ...
[14:02] <ogra_> and ...
[14:02] <ogra_> !patience
[14:02] <larsu> oh wow I didn't know about that one :)
[14:03] <ogra_>  !ask mentions it ;)
[14:03] <ogra_> !ask
[14:03] <Laney> mitya57: to git.gnome.org (you have commit there, yes?)
[14:03] <mitya57> No, I don't have any rights at all there…
[14:03] <commander_> thanks ogra_
[14:03] <Laney> oh :)
[14:03]  * Laney goes to bug someone else
[14:03] <Laney> oh laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars
[14:03]  * larsu updates irssi highlight regexp
[14:04] <mitya57> haha
[14:04] <larsu> la+rsu?
[14:05] <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/282948 <- review and commit to gnome-screensaver if you like it?
[14:05] <Laney> it is maintainerless
[14:05] <larsu> are you making me the one that touched it last?
[14:05] <Laney> it'll have my name :P
[14:05] <larsu> fair enough :)
[14:06] <Laney> sponsor me for a git account instead :)
[14:06] <mitya57> Btw we have some patches (like port to libsystemd) that can be forwarded as well.
[14:06] <larsu> Laney: apply and put me as vouching for you (I will)
[14:07] <mitya57> Though nobody is going to make new releases, so committing upstream does not help much
[14:07] <larsu> why am I doing that then, Laney?
[14:07] <mitya57> Other distros can notice the patches and cherry-pick them :)
[14:08] <larsu> "awesome"
[14:08] <mitya57> Btw here is a mail I was referring to: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2014-October/msg00088.html
[14:08] <Laney> yeah, there won't be any release
[14:09] <Laney> but at least the fix will be there for others
[14:10] <larsu> Laney: is there a bug we could reference?
[14:10] <Laney> sort of (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752202) but gnome-screensaver is closed for bugs
[14:11] <Laney> bah, just saw that last comment
[14:11]  * Laney wasted time
[14:11] <larsu> Laney: I should still commit, no?
[14:11] <larsu> this is about tests in glib
[14:11] <Laney> yes
[14:11] <larsu> isn't it?
[14:12] <Laney> two bugs
[14:12]  * larsu nods
[14:14] <larsu> Laney: pushed
[14:14] <Laney> ty1
[14:14] <Laney> !
[14:14] <larsu> ya. apply for an account
[14:14] <larsu> you deserve one
[14:15] <larsu> speaking of which.... going to GUADEC?
[14:15] <Laney> nein
[14:15] <larsu> so no ubuntu folks this year?
[14:16] <larsu> gnome ubuntu maybe?
[14:16] <Laney> happyaron is going
[14:16] <Laney> and FJKong?
[14:17] <larsu> ah cool
[14:42] <ochosi> really hope these land on the desktop at some point, so much nicer than the current icons... http://design.canonical.com/2015/07/the-monochromatic-makeover/
[14:42] <larsu> ah nice
[14:42] <larsu> interesting how they used blurry versions for the old ones
[14:43] <larsu> makes the new ones look even better :)
[14:44] <ochosi> hehe, yeah, that's an evil trick ;)
[14:44] <ochosi> still very nice style improvements and i don't see why it wouldn't work on a desktop/laptop
[14:44]  * ogra_ finds the indicator ones pretty awful
[14:44] <larsu> indeed!
[14:45] <ogra_> (using them on the phone since a while)
[14:45] <ochosi> larsu: while we're talking, did you have to make any adjustments to light-themes for gtk3.16 aka wily?
[14:45] <ochosi> ogra_: right, i haven't seen/used them on a phone, at least to the eye on the web they look nice
[14:46] <larsu> ochosi: yes, a few fixes for broken apps
[14:46] <larsu> and scrollbars
[14:46] <ochosi> oh could you point me to that?
[14:46] <larsu> they are MRs on ubuntu-themes
[14:46] <ogra_> specifically the network indicator ones ... the rest is ok ... well, and the fact that the volume indicator only has two steps now is really disturbing
[14:47] <ogra_> "loud or quiet" :P
[14:47]  * larsu has never understood the need for a volume indicator on phone
[14:48] <ogra_> helps in crowded environments ... where you want to know it is on full volume before playing that video for your table neihbor
[14:48] <ogra_> +g
[14:49] <larsu> hit the volume-down key?
[14:49] <ogra_> but then it mutes, because it was already low (and i didnt know) :P
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, the indicator is supposed to get mpris controls for player, that should land for the next ota I think
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, also knowing if you phone is muted is nice
[14:49] <larsu> seb128: ah right. totally makes sense for that
[14:50]  * ogra_ likes to have that one view overview about how loud the phone is
[14:50] <seb128> like a the theatre, did I mute it? just check the icon
[14:50] <larsu> hm, fair enough
[14:50]  * larsu never needs that
[14:50] <ogra_> i could easily live without indicator on the desktop :)
[14:51] <larsu> I use it to pause things sometimes
[14:51] <seb128> I use it to change volume and mute
[14:51] <larsu> (brb)
[14:51] <seb128> like mouse wheel/middle click on the icon
[14:51] <larsu> seb128: I have hw keys for that ;)
[14:51] <ogra_> yeah, same here, my kbds has a touch slider for volume
[14:52] <ogra_> *kbd
[15:03] <bregma> seb128, willcooke, is it still true that we no longer support the ubuntu-desktop-next image and we can just close any related bugs (that do not apply elsewhere)?
[15:04] <ochosi> larsu: thanks, borrowed the :link and .overshoot commits. will see what that other not-yet-merged branch is about...
[15:05] <willcooke> bregma, seb128 it's a yes from me.
[15:09] <willcooke> has anyone used 802.11d
[15:10] <willcooke> it's very obscure this 11d thing, so I think it's probably safe to say we dont need it
[15:10] <willcooke> s/need/need ui support
[15:10] <willcooke> hey sverdy
[15:11] <willcooke> sverdy, looks like Intel Centrino wifi supports it
[15:12] <sverdy> thanks willcooke. do we know what this is used for? and who uses it?
[15:12] <willcooke> doing some searches
[15:15] <seb128> bregma, sure you can close those, though I expect most of the issues apply to the snappy personal image (request to include more software) or are code bugs in unity8&co
[15:17] <willcooke> sverdy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11d-2001
[15:18] <willcooke> sverdy, read the line that starts "The current 802.11 standard defines operations....."
[15:18] <willcooke> I think it just means that if you use wifi in places other than those in that list, then you need D
[15:20] <sverdy> thanks willcooke!
[17:01] <Laney> ttyl!
[17:01] <Laney> (monday)
[17:01] <Laney> (muhahaha)
[17:30] <willcooke> g'night
[18:29]  * qengho afk.
[20:35] <xclaesse> desrt, any reason why ~/.cache/dconf is owned by root:root on my ubuntu ?
[20:35] <xclaesse> making duplicity fail to make a backup
[20:35] <xclaesse> googling, it seems common and really old issue actually
[20:54] <desrt> xclaesse: i'm guessing it involves running apps under sudo
[20:55] <desrt> but really, nothing should ever be trying to write anything at all to ~/.cache/dconf in the normal case
[20:55] <xclaesse> no idea... :/
[20:55] <desrt> this only happens if XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is unset
[20:55] <xclaesse> even if I'm running app as root, the dconf daemon should still be running as user and be the only writer, no?
[20:56] <desrt> it depends on what sudo is set up to do
[20:56] <desrt> there has been quite a lot of arguing about this over the years
[20:56] <desrt> but the general feeling is "don't run graphical apps under sudo"
[20:56] <desrt> and "we know it's broken, an we won't fix it, because that would only encourage you to do it"
[20:57] <desrt> i think lennart has weighed in fairly heavily on this issue in the past, for example
[22:07] <didrocks> good well, morning I guess :)