[02:30] <ShawnR> ok guys, i've tried figuring this out on and off for a while now and just can't get anywhere
[02:30] <ShawnR> whenever i try to apt-get anything: mysql-server-5.5 : Depends: mysql-server-core-5.5 (= 5.5.37-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>) but 5.5.40-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is to be installed
[02:31] <ShawnR> apt-get -f install does not fix... i just need to be pointed in the right direction and hopefully can take it from there
[02:31] <ShawnR> i just have no where to turn
[02:35] <ShawnR> oh, and it is running 12.04
[03:22] <mhall119> ShawnR: do you need 5.5 specifically?
[03:22] <ShawnR> mhall119: not that i know of
[03:22] <ShawnR> i have a few things that use mysql, so i don't want to just remove it
[03:22] <mhall119> have you tried just installing the mysql-server package?
[03:22] <ShawnR> not sure how this newer version came about or whatever, though
[03:23] <ShawnR> yeah, it fails
[03:23] <mhall119> same error?
[03:23] <ShawnR> yeah
[03:23] <ShawnR> hold on, i'll run again to verify
[03:23] <ShawnR> yup, same error
[03:24] <mhall119> run apt-cache show mysql-server-5.5 and pastebin the output
[03:26] <ShawnR> http://pastebin.com/FgxtMb4q
[03:31] <ShawnR> mhall119: tell me it isn't a lost cause... I need to rebuild my machine eventually, but I'd REALLY REALLY like to get my bash updated (and install some other things)
[03:31] <mhall119> ShawnR: should be recoverable
[03:31] <ShawnR> i figured that... just hope it is something that isn't TOO horrible to recover from
[03:31] <mhall119> did you already have mysql server installed on this box?
[03:32] <ShawnR> with my job an my wife being sick, i have almost no time, so i really can't sit back and reinstall everything like i really want to
[03:32] <ShawnR> yeah
[03:32] <ShawnR> it has been on there for ages
[03:32] <ShawnR>  this server started out as 10.04 i think was the last clean install i did
[03:32] <ShawnR> now it is 12.04
[03:33] <ShawnR> i used to run a phpnuke site on it WAY back in the day
[03:33] <ShawnR> i can't even remember what I got DBs for now in mysql
[03:33] <mhall119> it seems a difference in version numbers, you have multiple available to install
[03:35] <mhall119> try this (/me is guessing at commandline syntax): apt-get install --upgrade mysql-server-5.5=5.5.40-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[03:37] <ShawnR> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[03:37] <ShawnR> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:37] <ShawnR>  mysql-server-5.5 : Breaks: mysql-server (< 5.5.40-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>)
[03:37] <ShawnR> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[03:38] <mhall119> can you apt-get remove mysql-server-5.5 and then apt-get install mysql-server-5.5, or will that cause an outage in a service you have to keep live?
[03:38] <ShawnR> won't cause an outage
[03:38] <ShawnR> i was just afraid of losing anything currently setup
[03:38] <mhall119> if you don't --purge you shouldn't lose anything
[03:39] <ShawnR> gotcha
[03:39] <mhall119> you can always mysqldump first
[03:39] <ShawnR> still got same error :(
[03:39] <ShawnR> won't let me uninstall b/c i need to apt-get -f install first (which doesn't work)
[03:39] <ShawnR> mysql-server : Depends: mysql-server-5.5 but it is not going to be installed
[03:39] <ShawnR> so i need to apt-get remove both mysql-server and mysql-server-5.5?
[03:40] <ShawnR> ah, now zoneminder depends on mysql-server
[03:40] <ShawnR> i don't use that currently, i'll just ditch it
[03:40] <mhall119> mysql-server is just a meta-package that depends on mysql-server-5.5, you can try removing both (and mysql-server-core too)
[03:40] <ShawnR> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:40] <ShawnR>  mysql-server-5.5 : Depends: mysql-server-core-5.5 (= 5.5.37-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>) but 5.5.40-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is to be installed
[03:40] <ShawnR> yeah, i need t odo core
[03:46] <ShawnR> ooh...
[03:46] <ShawnR> dpkg might have done it...
[04:47] <ShawnR> ok, so i'm getting closer... but still no dice, mhall119
[04:52] <ShawnR> http://pastebin.com/RcKnPPBx there's the output from sudo apt-get -f install
[04:52] <ShawnR> I'll be around tomorrow.  Thanks for any/all help
[04:52] <ShawnR> and now to retire for the night


[12:14] <jjesse> !kernel
[12:14] <ubotu> kernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux') - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel.  You shouldn't have to compile one, but if you're convinced you do, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
[12:14] <jjesse> !feisty kernel
[12:14] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about feisty kernel - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:14] <jjesse> how do i get ubotu to tell what version something in feisty will be?
[12:15] <jjesse> !ubotu help
[12:15] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[12:15] <Hobbsee> !info basket
[12:15] <ubotu> basket: User-friendly way to run programs and manage links in KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.0-6 (edgy), package size 334 kB, installed size 1176 kB
[12:15] <Hobbsee> !info basket feisty
[12:15] <jjesse> hello Hobbsee
[12:15] <ubotu> basket: a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1 (feisty), package size 4797 kB, installed size 7360 kB
[12:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:15] <jjesse> !info kernel feisty
[12:15] <ubotu> Package kernel does not exist in feisty
[12:16] <Hobbsee> go by package name
[12:16] <jjesse> grumble, what kernel will be in feisty?
[12:16] <jjesse> ah
[12:16] <Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'LongPointyStick': Linux 2.6.20-8-generic running KDE 3.5.6, CPU: Genuine Intel(R) CPU           T2250  @ 1.73GHz at 800 MHz (3458 bogomips), HD: 23/71GB, RAM: 667/1510MB, 133 proc's, 17.30min up
[12:16] <Hobbsee> apt-cache search kernel tends to tell you
[12:16] <jjesse> nice computer name
[12:16] <jjesse> ah ok
[12:16] <Hobbsee> yep :)
[12:16] <Hobbsee> LongPointyStickOfDoom was a bit long
[12:17] <jjesse> grin is that just a test machine then?
[12:17] <Hobbsee> nope
[12:17] <Hobbsee> seeing as it manages to get up to 88C at times.
[12:17] <jjesse> wow
[12:18] <Hobbsee> yep
[12:18] <mhb> Hobbsee!! :o)
[12:18] <Hobbsee> heya mhb!!!!
[12:18] <Hobbsee> mhb: how's your testing team going?
[12:19] <mhb> Hobbsee: sleepy lately, I am ashamed
[12:19] <mhb> Hobbsee: I have to wake them up
[12:19] <mhb> Hobbsee: first thing I do in the morning :o)
[12:19] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:19] <mhb> (it's 00:19)
[12:20] <Hobbsee> hehe, ouch
[12:27] <toma> Hobbsee: !~~!
[12:27] <Hobbsee> hey toma!!!!
[12:32] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/86065 for your next bugfixing urg
[12:32] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/86065 for your next bugfixing urge
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 86065 in kdebase "setxkbmap only effects newly started applications" [Medium,Confirmed]
[12:48] <Hobbsee> mhb: you still around?
[12:49] <mhb> Hobbsee: yep
[12:49] <mhb> Hobbsee: not for long, though :o)
[12:50] <Hobbsee> right
[12:50] <Hobbsee> mhb: do you know if Riddell needed people to test the upgrader?
[12:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: /topic says that, right?
[12:52] <mhb> Hobbsee: in other words: yes
[12:53] <Hobbsee> mhb: ahhh, didnt notice it had been updated
[12:58] <jjesse> the upgrader works
[12:59] <mhb> jjesse: heh :o) a bold claim
[12:59] <jjesse> mhb: it worked on my virtual machines
[12:59] <mhb> jjesse: I'd say it *worked* . Once. :o)
[12:59] <jjesse> :P
[01:00] <mhb> jjesse: which is common.
[01:00] <yuriy> i'm thinking of testing dist-upgrade from dapper
[01:00] <mhb> jjesse: the real challenge is to try some exotic packages or have a whole lot of packages and then upgrade
[01:00] <jjesse> mhb: ah it was a defalt install of edgy for documenting the upgrade process for the kubuntu chpt
[01:01] <yuriy> i don't really understand what the dist-upgrade tool is. and is there one for dapper?
[01:01] <jjesse> only for edg
[01:01] <jjesse> edgy
[01:01] <jjesse> what happens is adept_notifier notifies you that you have packages and then you simply run adept_updater to do the upgrade
[01:02] <yuriy> so under dapper, the upgrade would be as before? change dapper to feisty in sources.list and sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[01:02] <jjesse> i guess
[01:02] <yuriy> and that should work in theory
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yuriy: only for edgy
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yuriy: you catn dist-upgrade directly from dapper to feisty
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yuriy: you say upgrade to the new release, and it downloads and fixes everything for you
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yuriy: that will break
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yuriy: you need to go to edgy, then dist-upgrade again to feisty
[01:03] <jjesse> have to got dapper -> edgy -> feisty
[01:03] <yuriy> Hobbsee: oh, i thought you can skip releases. so dapper -> edgy -> feisty (except the first step will probably break..)
[01:04] <yuriy> eh i won't bother then. that's more of a test of upgrading dapper -> edgy
[01:04] <Hobbsee> yuriy: if you fix all dependancies yourself, yes
[01:04] <Hobbsee> fdoving: that's going to be a pain of an upgrade...
[01:04] <Hobbsee> yuriy: true.  all the transitional packages only workf rom release to release
[01:05] <yuriy> Hobbsee: thats why i thought you can skip releases. i thought you can go lts -> lts
[01:05] <jjesse> i would hope you could go lts -> lts
[01:06] <mhb> does anyone happen to know where the Konqueror main page is stored?
[01:06] <Hobbsee> you can - there will be transitional package between lts'
[01:06] <yuriy> oh
[01:06] <jjesse> lts +1 is feisty +1 ?
[01:06] <Hobbsee> but not between non-lts' not in sequence
[01:06] <Hobbsee> jjesse: hasnt been said
[01:06] <yuriy> mhb: the about:konqueror page?
[01:07] <mhb> yuriy: yep
[01:08] <yuriy> mhb: i think it's /usr/share/apps/konqueror/about/launch.html but if you open that it doesn't really show the contents
[01:08] <mhb> yuriy: thanks
[01:55] <yuriy> playing around with kde4 :) ksysguard is nice
[02:16] <nixternal> but 74222 - I have added a dpatch to the bug that fixes and closes that error if someone can hook up qtparted
[02:16] <nixternal> err
[02:16] <nixternal> bug 74222
[02:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74222 in qtparted "manually prepare partition warning:  wrong choice of word" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74222
[02:16] <nixternal> heh
[02:17] <yuriy> kdmrc still not getting overwritten :-\
[02:22] <nixternal> why is the Herd 4 installer so damn difficult when it comes to partitioning?
[02:27] <nixternal> what is the trick with qtparted? it is starting to really annoy me
[02:29] <manchicken> Damnit, debconf is giving me shit again.
[03:24] <nixternal> the login screen, have the circles been replaced by little squares?
[03:25] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I don't have an Edgy box around anymore, so I need some Feisty loving for the KDE4 snapshot
[03:25] <Hobbsee> nixternal: good point.
[03:27] <nixternal> hrmm, how do I get that flash plugin loader for konqueror to popup?
[03:29] <Jucato> go to a site that has flash content?
[03:30] <nixternal> doesn't work
[03:30] <nixternal> I just went to youtube
[03:30] <Jucato> :(
[03:31] <nixternal> well I will be damn
[03:31] <nixternal> it doesn't work for youtube
[03:31] <nixternal> flash-game.net it works :)
[03:31] <Jucato> :D
[03:31] <nixternal> great, I need to document this for the sys docs
[03:32] <Jucato> hm... we're in total freeze now right?
[03:33] <Jucato> I'm just wondering if the Konqueror web shortcuts have been updated to reflect the h.u.c. vs. w.u.c. distinction
[03:37] <Hobbsee> no idea
[03:40] <yuriy> nixternal: the edgy packages seem to work on feisty.. though i guess i couldn't actually tell if it's broken because kde4 is so broken
[03:59] <nixternal> how do I uninstall that flash plugin now that it is installed?
[04:00] <stdin> sudo apt-get remove flashplugin-nonfree
[04:00] <nixternal> that isn't what gets installed
[04:00] <nixternal> I just tried that
[04:01] <stdin> what package is it?
[04:01] <nixternal> the flash plugin deal with konqueror
[04:02] <stdin> yeah, there are a couple, gnash and the adobe one are two
[04:02] <stdin> if it's the adobe one, then that's the package
[04:02] <Jucato> stdin: no
[04:02] <Jucato> the new flash installer script in Konqueror installs to $HOME iirc
[04:02] <nixternal> hrmm, it even shows up in Firefox as installed, and I checked...oh wait, let me check ~/
[04:02] <stdin> Jucato: in ~/mozilla/plugins ?
[04:03] <Jucato> stdin: not really sure. Tonio's the guy to ask about that
[04:03] <nixternal> stdin: yes
[04:03] <nixternal> exactly where it is
[04:03] <Jucato> :)
[04:03] <stdin> wow, I actually remembered, I get a gold star now :)
[04:50] <nixternal> who was having debconf issues?
[04:50] <nixternal> I am having them trying to install Java
[04:50] <Jucato> manchicken was, iirc
[04:50] <nixternal> feisty is making documentation damn near impossible
[04:50] <manchicken> I was.
[04:50] <nixternal> this sucks
[04:50] <nixternal> manchicken: did you find anyways around it?
[04:51] <manchicken> CLI
[04:51] <nixternal> ya, but I need the instructions for debconf though for documentation
[04:51] <Jucato> :D
[04:51] <nixternal> I am sure it is just a bunch of "press next" anyways
[04:51] <nixternal> and probably an "I agree" button
[04:51] <manchicken> I think you may have to wait until it's fixed ^_^
[04:51] <nixternal> yup
[04:51] <manchicken> BTW, I'm not changing jobs, just moving.
[04:52] <yuriy> nixternal: it's not a bunch of press next, there's a checkbox at the bottom of the license
[04:52] <yuriy> i was really confused for a bit on that one
[04:54] <manchicken> It seems like this debconf thing may just be a Perl issue.
[04:55] <nixternal> ya, but it crashes before you even get the chance to accept the license
[04:55] <yuriy> ah
[04:57] <manchicken> Do you know if the debconf stuff was put into JR's adept tree?
[04:59] <nixternal> I don't know
[05:00] <nixternal> yey, Winter Storm Watch until 6pm on Sunday
[05:00] <nixternal> this weekend is going to suck
[05:32] <manchicken> Rich, you gonna be at the GLUG meeting?
[05:32] <manchicken> You absolutely must see my Perl AJAX talk.
[05:50] <nixternal> manchicken: no, I have way to much work to get finished this weekend for Kubuntu
[05:50] <nixternal> I have about 1 month worth of work to get done before freeze next in 2 weeks
[05:54] <nixternal> thanks
[05:54] <nixternal> I am busting arse tonight, finished the entire Kubuntu Internet topic, working on the Network topic now
[05:54] <nixternal> NFS is my biggie, but I think I am going to point the user to refer to a couple of web sites concerning NFS and configuration
[05:54] <Jucato> you're the man nixternal!! you're the man! :D
[05:54] <nixternal> unless someone here is a resident NFS expert :)
[05:55] <nixternal> Jucato: I only wish, I am just a peasant trying to earn my break ;p
[06:34] <manchicken> nixternal: Isn't that just feature freeze?
[06:52] <nixternal> string freeze
[06:52] <nixternal> March 8th
[06:52] <nixternal> for translations
[06:59] <manchicken> Ah.
[07:00] <manchicken> I really need someone else to help take a peek at this issue.
[07:15] <nixternal> what issue is it?
[07:17] <manchicken> adept_updater crashing when you click Details button.
[07:18] <nixternal> with the current updates, or do you have a seperate package?
[07:18] <manchicken> I think a different object is being passed to the ItemChangelog from adept_manager to adept_updater
[07:18] <manchicken> With current updates as well, though I've made some changes.
[07:19] <manchicken> brb
[07:19] <manchicken> gotta restart k
[07:34] <manchicken> Feisty does not like this laptop.
[09:39] <nixternal> boo
[10:32] <mhb> morning all
[10:34] <Jucato> moin mhb
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping?
[12:05] <GNUro> 'lo!
[12:06] <Hobbsee> hey GNUro!
[12:06] <GNUro> hello Hobbsee!:)
[12:08] <Hobbsee> GNUro: you a kde person, or what?
[12:10] <GNUro> Hobbsee: i'm a new kde developer. At moment i'm working on my App: KPackageMaker.
[12:11] <Hobbsee> GNUro: nice :)
[12:11] <Hobbsee> GNUro: what's that do?  compiles things from source?
[12:17] <GNUro> Hobbsee: at moment it packages tarball in deb, generic tgz binary and rpm(rpm doesn't work at moment..)
[12:17] <Jucato> wow
[12:17] <Hobbsee> how are you doing the deb?
[12:18] <GNUro> Hobbsee: however it's an alpha.
[12:19] <Hobbsee> GNUro: the question still stands :P
[12:20] <Hobbsee> heya toma!
[12:20] <GNUro> Hobbsee: yes.
[12:21] <GNUro> Hobbsee: also.
[12:21] <toma> hey Hobbsee
[12:21] <toma> hi all
[12:21] <Hobbsee> GNUro: hrm?  i asked "how are you making the debs?"  ie, with checkinstall or what?  yes, and also, are not appropriate answers to this.
[12:21] <GNUro> Hi toma!
[12:27] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee
[12:29] <Hobbsee> ty
[12:30] <Hobbsee> right
[12:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:50] <toma> wrong window...
[12:56] <dinosaur-rus> hi
[12:56] <toma> hi dino
[12:58] <Hobbsee> hey dinosaur-rus
[12:59] <Hobbsee> aww damn, better get bug filing
[01:01] <Hobbsee> the kde4 snapshot has broken deps
[01:02] <toma> Hobbsee: upstream?
[01:02] <Hobbsee> toma:the one in the topic
[01:02] <Hobbsee> (third one)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> holy cow.  other laptop is already 68C
[01:03] <toma> ok
[01:05] <Hobbsee> 71C...
[01:05] <toma> most proc's will shutdown when they get too hot
[01:06] <Hobbsee> this has gotten to 88C, iirc
[01:06] <Hobbsee> might have been into the 90's
[01:06] <toma> 90 is pretty much the max
[01:07] <Jucato> yay! monitor turning purple... a perfect match for Edgy's artwork!
[01:07] <Hobbsee> oh wait, after it's done the updates
[01:08] <toma> breakfast!
[01:12] <Hobbsee__> ooh, kde4 :)
[01:13] <Jucato> hehehe
[01:14] <Hobbsee__> sarah@sarah:~$ Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
[01:14] <Hobbsee__> Xlib: No protocol specified
[01:14] <Hobbsee__> dist-upgrade.py: cannot connect to X server :0.0
[01:14] <Hobbsee__> no go on that upgrader
[01:18] <Hobbsee__> Jucato: is the snapshot supposed to have the oxygen icons?
[01:18] <Jucato> Hobbsee__: afaik not yet. the icons haven't been moved to kdelibs yet
[01:18] <Hobbsee__> right
[01:18] <Jucato> still KDE 3.5.x-ish?
[01:18] <Hobbsee__> manchicken|away: hrm, you're away
[01:18] <Hobbsee__> yes, rather.
[01:19] <marseillai> Jucato: "The next planned change is new integration of Oxygen, the new artwork concept. Work on Plasma is also taking up pace." http://dot.kde.org/1172249109/ so normally no!
[01:23] <Hobbsee__> Riddell: ping when you're around
[01:49] <mhb> hi abattoir
[01:50] <abattoir> hi mhb :)
[01:51] <Hobbsee> hey abattoir
[01:51] <abattoir> hello Hobbsee :)
[01:51] <Jucato> hi abattoir!!!!
[01:51] <abattoir> lol
[01:51] <Jucato> :D
[01:51] <abattoir> hi Jucato! :)
[01:52] <abattoir> hi, everyone else, too :)
[01:53] <Jucato> ah basket :)
[01:53] <Hobbsee> why after the weekend?
[01:53] <Jucato> it's a weekend. this is for "work" hehehe
[01:54] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:57] <mhb> weekends are the only time I can get something done
[02:03] <Jucato> ooh
[02:13] <dinosaur-rus> uh, dot.kde.org is down
[02:15] <dinosaur-rus> omg, it's up again :)
[02:15] <dinosaur-rus> so quickly :P
[02:24] <buz> hi
[02:24] <buz> i'm trying to compile knetworkmanager from svn
[02:24] <buz> but i cant figure out what to do with the configure.in.in file in svn
[02:25] <Hobbsee> buz: try #kde
[02:27] <buz> ok
[02:27] <toma> buz: is it in svn?
[02:27] <buz> i'm hoping maybe the bug with connecting to wpa2 networks would be fixed in svn
[02:27] <Hobbsee> which was that?
[02:27] <buz> if i try to click on a wpa2 network, it just does nothing
[02:27] <buz> if i manually connect to it, it works
[02:28] <Hobbsee> got /etc/network/interfaces stuff uncommented?
[02:28] <buz> supposedly gnome doesnt have that issue so i assume its knetworkmanager
[02:28] <buz> well wpa2 works, but only if i enter ssid etc manually
[02:28] <buz> not when i just click on the list of networks
[02:28] <buz> wpa works just fine, too
[02:28] <toma> buz: you dont need to do anything with configure.in.in
[03:23] <buz> ok so now i get configure etc but it fails to include libnl headers
[03:23] <buz>  /usr/include/netlink/netlink-kernel.h:222: error: ?__u32? does not name a type
[03:27] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I.B. Here
[03:27] <Hobbsee> manchicken: yay.  how does one force the updater to work, when it cant connect to the display?
[03:30] <manchicken> Are you running it as a different user than K?
[03:31] <manchicken> -2'C... Real feel -10'C... The cold returns...
[03:31] <Hobbsee> think i was using kdesu, so shouldnt have been
[03:31] <Hobbsee> dunno what happened
[03:32] <Hobbsee> will have to debug when someone's actually here
[03:32] <Hobbsee> (it's on my other machine)
[03:32] <manchicken> Try xhost +
[03:32] <manchicken> Then see if it works.
[03:32] <manchicken> That's what I use when I'm debugging.
[03:32] <manchicken> While kdesu shouldn't require xhost +, doesn't mean it's not broken in feisty :P
[03:33] <manchicken> Hell, everything else seems to be ^_^
[03:33] <manchicken> What's really annoying is that when I log into K, the power manager complains that it can't touch the power management stuff via DBUS.
[03:33] <manchicken> I think that's why it doesn't know how fast my CPU is running.
[03:35] <Hobbsee> hrm.
[03:35] <manchicken> But I suppose all that is why we call it an "unstable development version" ^_^
[03:36] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Did ya hear that I'mma be movin'?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> nope
[03:36] <Hobbsee> where to?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> of course, i was merely attempting to test it out :)
[03:36] <manchicken> Yeah, I'll be moving about 135 miles south to Champaign, Illinois ^_^
[03:37] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I'm more just belly achin' with that previous comment, not talking about you ^_^
[03:37] <manchicken> The plethora of small annoying problems is really constituting a large annoyance.
[03:38] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[03:38] <Hobbsee> nice
[04:01] <elcuco> hi, does anyone have write acess to the resolution kcontrol applet which is shiped in kubuntu?
[04:02] <elcuco> it uses KTabCtl which is borked in RTL desktops. The fix is to use QTabWidget, just modify the include, and class definition. They use the same API.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> elcuco: filed a bug on it?
[04:03] <elcuco> why? easier to ask for svn write acess and fix it myself :)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> got a patch for it, then?
[04:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:04] <Hobbsee> seeing as it's not in svn
[04:04] <elcuco> i need to know where the source is. is it python? can i edit it locally on my machine? or recompilation is needed?
[04:06] <manchicken> I believe it's C++...
[04:06] <manchicken> You could recompile it on your machine if you have a build environment.
[04:06] <elcuco> ok. apt-source... whats the application name?
[04:07] <manchicken> Just find the .desktop file and dpkg-query -S the file.
[04:07] <manchicken> That'll tell you what package it's in.
[04:07] <Jucato> kde-guidance modules are in Python afaik
[04:07] <Jucato> display module is displayconfig.py
[04:07] <manchicken> Ah.
[04:07] <manchicken> Showoff :P
[04:07] <manchicken> heh'
[04:07] <Jucato> heh
[04:07] <manchicken> what's goin' on jucato?
[04:08] <Jucato> I found that out a few months ago
[04:08] <Jucato> what's going on? trying to write a blog post that's one month overdue...
[04:12] <Jucato> heheh
[04:12] <manchicken> We should call it (+ feisty 1)
[04:13] <manchicken> Reverse polish notation.  So nifty.
[04:13] <Jucato> lol
[04:13] <elcuco> yes, one line change, and it works pretty good.
[04:14] <manchicken> elcuco: Cool.  Make sure you submit it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:23] <elcuco> ma, done
[04:28] <elcuco> manchicken: ^^
[04:28] <manchicken> Brewtiful.
[04:28] <manchicken> Now find something else to fix ^_^
[04:28] <manchicken> I'm sure there're other RTL things that could be fixed.
[04:35] <elcuco> crap, my message was rejected since i am not subscribed.
[04:35] <elcuco> manchicken: i need to translate the UI before i can know what new needs to be fixed.
[04:39] <manchicken> elcuco: It's not hard to subscribe, or if you email it to me I'll forward it on.
[04:39] <manchicken><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:40] <manchicken> Make sure you put your real name in the message so I can give you proper credit.
[06:07] <manchicken> Oooh Riddell... where are you?
[06:18] <toma> fosdem?
[06:26] <nixternal> lol
[07:09] <kishore__> Hi, i am running feisty and i am unable to pair any bluetooth phone
[07:10] <kishore__> is this a known issue? i could not find a recent entry
[07:11] <manchicken> Check out #kubuntu+1 for that question.
[07:11] <manchicken> Or is that #ubuntu+1?
[07:12] <manchicken> Yeah, #ubuntu+1 is the feller.
[07:12] <kishore__> ok thanks
[07:12] <manchicken> Make sure you read the topic.
[08:53] <jjesse> will shipit be sending out feisty cd's this time?  if i remember they don't send out edgy cds?
[08:59] <manchicken> jjesse: They'll sell edgy CDs.
[08:59] <jjesse> but not ship for free?
[08:59] <manchicken> No, only LTS ships for free.
[08:59] <manchicken> IIRC
[08:59] <jjesse> will fiesty not ship for free then?
[09:00] <manchicken> It will when it gets to LTS status.
[09:00] <jjesse> huh???
[09:00] <manchicken> It seems like only LTS and older versions ship.
[09:00] <jjesse> feisty is the next long time support like dapper?
[09:00] <manchicken> No, Edgy is next.
[09:01] <manchicken> When the next stable release after Feisty makes it out, then Feisty will be LTS.
[09:01] <jjesse> i'm  sorry your are confusing me w/ LTS, i thought only dapper was long time support (being supported for 3 years on the desktop)
[09:01] <mhb> boys, you're confusing each other :o)
[09:02] <jjesse> ok mhb clarify it for me :)
[09:02] <mhb> Dapper = LTS ... other releases will be shipped to LoCo Team Leaders only (a few hundred CDs for each)
[09:02] <jjesse> that's what i thought
[09:03] <mhb> Shipit will ship the next LTS version, but AFAIK nobody's sure when that will be
[09:03] <manchicken> I was under the impression that Edgy will be moving into LTS once Feisty is out.
[09:03] <Lathiat> manchicken: no, that is incorrect
[09:03] <allee> manchicken: no
[09:03] <Lathiat> LTS releases are made every so oftne
[09:03] <Lathiat> dapper was the first
[09:03] <manchicken> Okie dokie.
[09:03] <Lathiat> neither edgy or feisty will be LTD
[09:03] <Lathiat> *LTS
[09:03] <manchicken> Well Shipit will ship the lastest version for a fee IIRC.
[09:04] <jjesse> that's what i thought
[09:04] <jjesse> just trying to get things clarified for the kubuntu chpt
[10:12] <HymnToLife> If there is a member of the Kubuntu.org staff arount here, the informations about adding the apt key were forgotten on that page : http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-3.80.3.php
[10:37] <_StefanS_> evening !
[10:37] <_StefanS_> Riddell: does that kde4 snapshot work for feisty as well ?
[10:38] <mhb> _StefanS_: nope
[10:38] <_StefanS_> bugger
[10:39] <_StefanS_> hmm would be fun to see how it performs..
[10:39] <mhb> _StefanS_: it's better to wait till someone packages it for feisty
[10:39] <_StefanS_> mhb: yea, or compile it yourself
[10:39] <_StefanS_> mhb: I actually already did that, but it seemed easier to just install some deb's
[10:53] <ryanakca> hmm... how do I restore Kubuntu to it's default appearance?
[10:53] <ryanakca> and... I'm asking in the wrong channel
[10:54] <_StefanS_> hmm I'm still having the debian kdm theme after I ran some updates, anyone else know how to fix this ? tried reinstalling kubuntu-default..settings
[10:59] <mhb> ryanakca: I usually delete some .kde directories et voila!
[10:59] <ryanakca> mhb: what .kde is the question
[11:01] <mhb> ryanakca: not sure
[11:02] <mhb> ryanakca: I usually have a second user just for that
[11:03] <ryanakca> hitting defaults in kcontrol gives me high contrast theme
[11:05] <ryanakca> fixed...
[11:05] <ryanakca> hmm... defaults in win decs doesn't do anything
[11:18] <manchicken_> Riddell: You about?


[18:16] <zul> pitti: yes its necessary, ill write the MIR for it
[18:27] <sbeattie> slangasek: is bug 269539 likely to go away now that last-good-kernel has been postponed.
[18:28] <MacSlow> amitk, uploaded to PPA ... compiling now
[18:28] <MacSlow> amitk, https://edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/+archive
[18:35] <pitti> sbeattie: hm, isn't that from update-grub when a new kernel ABI hits?
[18:35] <pitti> i. e. not really related to last-known-good-boot
[18:37] <sbeattie> pitti: looking at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17780561/menu.lst.ucf-new is what makes me suspect last-known-good-boot, but that's with little knowledge of what's happening.
[18:38] <pitti> sbeattie: ah, ok
[18:38] <pitti> sbeattie: sorry, I just read the bug title
[18:39] <sbeattie> pitti: well, I'm not sure either, that's why I'm asking. :-)
[18:40] <pitti> I got a similar situation when I edited the autogenerated stanzas without editing the defaults
[18:40] <pitti> but I got a proper ucf dialog
[18:47] <lool> MacSlow: dunno
[18:49] <tedg> Can someone please sponsor bug 278810 ?
[18:51] <bdmurray> tkamppeter: Have you seen bug 255583?
[18:59] <ScottK> pitti: If an apport crash is consistently put against the wrong package, is that an Apport problem or a Launchpad problem?
[19:01] <pitti> ScottK: it's not at all a LP bug; it is an apport bug, but in some cases it's not practically fixable without concrete manually maintained lists
[19:01] <pitti> ScottK: do you have an example?
[19:02] <ScottK> pitti: Bug 281918 and the bazillion dupes.
[19:02] <ScottK> pitti: I've seen it on other guidance-power-manager bugs too.
[19:04] <pitti> ScottK: where was it originally assigned to?
[19:04] <pitti> oh, python2.5
[19:04] <ScottK> pitti: python2.5
[19:05] <pitti> ScottK: that's indeed a bug which should be fixable; it works correclty for a lot of other python packages; can you please file an apport bug about it?
[19:05] <ScottK> Sure
[19:05] <pitti> ExecutablePath: /usr/bin/python2.5
[19:05] <pitti> Right
[19:05] <pitti> that should usually be /usr/bin/guidance-power-manager
[19:05] <pitti> i. e. the python script
[19:06] <pitti> I'm off for today, have a good weekend everyone!
[19:07] <ScottK> pitti: Have a good weekend.  Bug #285106 filed.
[19:12] <didrocks> slangasek: around?
[19:20] <calc> what package does the workspace switcher belong to?
[19:20]  * calc is trying to determine which package to reassign this bug to
[19:22]  * calc guesses at gnome-panel
[19:24] <james_w> calc: depends what the bug is, might be libwnck, but I think you are right to assign it there, it can be moved if necessary.
[19:27] <tkamppeter> bdmurray, Bug 255583 is already fixed in Intrepid.
[19:49] <slangasek> sbeattie: 269539 - I really have no idea, because I have yet to see a menu.lst.ucf-new that tells me what the source of the conflicts are
[19:49] <slangasek> oh, but apparently there's one available now
[19:50] <slangasek> didrocks: hi
[19:57]  * ogra wonders why http://paste.ubuntu.com/58928/ can result in http://paste.ubuntu.com/58930/ if compiled and run
[19:57] <ogra> sems my system cant compile gtk binaries anymore
[19:57] <slangasek> sbeattie: ok, that particular conflict is a non-issue because last-good-boot is disabled now, yes
[19:57]  * ogra is irritated
[19:57] <slangasek> I'll have to keep an eye on that for jaunty when l-g-b is revisited
[19:58] <didrocks> slangasek: hi :) does pitti spoke with you about bug #212098
[19:58] <didrocks> ?
[19:58] <slangasek> didrocks: we discussed it in the release meeting today, yes
[19:59] <didrocks> slangasek: ok, apparently, pitty told me that what we planned initially will not work
[20:00] <didrocks> that is to say get the group from the current session
[20:00] <slangasek> sbeattie: which of the dupes was that menu.lst.ucf-new hiding in, btw?
[20:00] <didrocks> and then compare it to getpwent
[20:00] <slangasek> didrocks: the issue is not the group.  there were two reasons why the user needed to logout and log back in
[20:01] <didrocks> pitti spoke to me about some pass hash ?
[20:01] <slangasek> er - trying to compare groups by hand is definitely not going to work, no
[20:01] <didrocks> (the idea was just to warn user if getpwent tell that the user is in the right group, but that the session has not been reloaded)
[20:02] <slangasek> that part has been resolved by adding sambashare to the list of groups created by the installer
[20:02] <slangasek> the other part is that libpam-smbpasswd has to be installed, and then the user has to authenticate, before that user can be used for authentication to shares
[20:02] <didrocks> yes, and all users with admin "profile" in "user and group" are in the sambashare group
[20:02] <tseliot> pitti: thanks ;)
[20:03] <slangasek> if you're only doing anonymous shares, then that doesn't matter
[20:03] <slangasek> sorry, libpam-smbpass
[20:03] <slangasek> but if you're doing authentication, then each user needs to authenticate to the local system in order for libpam-smbpass to pick up the password and create the NTLM password hash
[20:04] <didrocks> is libpam-smbpass installed on enabling sharing?
[20:04] <slangasek> yes
[20:06] <didrocks> ok, so, this is harder to detect. Is there any API or I have to parse some conf files?
[20:06] <mvo_> amitk: did you had a chance to test the new libgksu?
[20:07] <slangasek> didrocks: what are you trying to detect?
[20:07] <didrocks> slangasek: that libpam-smbpass didn't create a NTLM password hash for the current user
[20:07] <tseliot> cody-somerville: can you have a look at my FFE for Hardy, please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/261816
[20:08] <slangasek> didrocks: libpam-smbpass *doesn't* create an NTLM password hash for the user *until the next time that user logs in*
[20:08] <slangasek> didrocks: this is why we wanted a notice telling the user to log out and log back in :)
[20:09] <didrocks> slangasek: yes, and that's a way to detect that we have to tell to a user that he has to log out and back in :)
[20:09] <slangasek> didrocks: the first iteration should always tell the user to log out and log back in
[20:09] <slangasek> didrocks: or to do this any time the libpam-smbpass package was not previously installed
[20:10] <didrocks> slangasek: but for "normal" user (not admin one)
[20:10] <slangasek> hmm?
[20:10] <didrocks> slangasek: see last case on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus-share/+bug/212098/comments/57
[20:10] <didrocks> we still have the group issue there without noticing
[20:12] <slangasek> under what circumstances is a non-admin user installing packages?
[20:13] <slangasek> oh, you're talking about a user being given sambashare privs by the admin
[20:13] <didrocks> no, that's not what I described in my use-case
[20:13] <didrocks> yes
[20:13] <didrocks> and the admin ssh to the host
[20:13] <didrocks> or use "switch user", without unlogging the current one
[20:13] <slangasek> then the user has to log out and log in again
[20:13] <slangasek> and we have no communications channel by which to tell them this
[20:14] <didrocks> yes, but he has no warning about that
[20:14] <slangasek> so the admin has to tell the user
[20:14] <slangasek> that's far out of scope for what we're trying to get fixed...
[20:14] <didrocks> and what about getwgrent to detect this case?
[20:14] <didrocks> getpwent, sorry
[20:15] <slangasek> what component is going to do the detection?
[20:15] <ion_> pitti: May i suggest renaming “Guest session” as “New guest session” to avoid confusion with the “Guest” item which shows up when there is a guest session running?
[20:15] <ion_> pitti: Alternatively, fusa could hide “Guest session” in that case.
[20:15] <slangasek> didrocks: is nautilus-share supposed to do this when the user clicks on 'sharing options'?
[20:16] <didrocks> slangasek: that's what I was thinking, but I might be totally wrong :)
[20:17] <slangasek> didrocks: so if the current process doesn't have the group permissions, but getgrnam("sambashare") lists the user, pop a warning telling them to logout/login
[20:17] <didrocks> exactly
[20:17] <didrocks> and we fix both issues
[20:17] <slangasek> didrocks: I think that makes sense.  But I also think it's out of scope for what we should be trying to fix for intrepid
[20:17] <slangasek> which "both"?
[20:17] <slangasek> it doesn't fix the NTLM hash issue
[20:18] <didrocks> yes, but it will force them to unlog too
[20:18]  * ogra cries ... my system cant build working gtk binaries anymore ... no seb128 either :(
[20:18] <slangasek> that issue needs to be fixed with an *unconditional* message after installing libpam-smbpass, *regardless* of the group membership
[20:18] <slangasek> ogra: debsums -s?
[20:18] <ogra> slangasek, debsums ?
[20:18] <ogra> its a plain .c file
[20:18] <ogra> slangasek, http://paste.ubuntu.com/58928/
[20:19] <slangasek> ogra: I mean you should check the integrity of your sysetm
[20:19] <slangasek> system
[20:19] <didrocks> slangasek: yes, I agree, but do we want to add this additional detection too? It's a workaround, yes, but waiting for a better solution…
[20:19] <ogra> oh
[20:19] <slangasek> didrocks: I would, on the first iteration for intrepid, not mess around with trying to detect group memberships
[20:20] <slangasek> didrocks: an unconditional message, after installation of libpam-smbpass, addresses the immediate problem, and we can refine it from there
[20:20] <didrocks> slangasek: ok, I will build my first proposal on that :)
[20:20] <didrocks> thanks for having clarified that :)
[20:20] <slangasek> didrocks: ok, thanks :)
[20:21] <slangasek> didrocks: when do you think you might have a chance to work on this?  We're obviously well into freeze territory already
[20:21] <didrocks> slangasek: yes, I think it would be possible to do this for Monday/Tuesday (will try to handle it this week-end), will be it ok?
[20:22] <slangasek> didrocks: Monday would be best
[20:22] <didrocks> slangasek: ok, will do my best, so :)
[20:22] <slangasek> didrocks: ok, thanks. :)
[20:23] <didrocks> slangasek: you're welcome!
[20:25] <ogra> slangasek, that prouces some output, but nothing strikes me as related to gtk ... the segfaulting started out of the blue
[20:25] <ogra> *produces
[20:25] <ogra> i first thought i had a typo in my code
[20:25] <ogra> which made me write that little test code to notice it segfaults as well
[20:26] <slangasek> hmm, it produces output other than "no md5sums for <package>"?
[20:27] <slangasek> ogra: ok, I just tested your code, it segfaults here too :)
[20:27] <ogra> wow
[20:28] <slangasek> but nothing else does
[20:28] <ogra> weird
[20:28] <slangasek> ogra: google: gtk "hello world" says you're missing a gtk_init()
[20:29] <ogra> eek
[20:29] <ogra> oh man ... i should probably stop for the day instead of wasting other peoples time with my sillyness
[20:41] <kiffi1> I have a question about Ubuntu 8.10 beta...
[20:42] <ScottK> kiffi1: #ubuntu+1 is almost certainly the place to ask it.
[20:43] <kiffi1> If I install it can I easily upgrade to 8.10 via package manager or do I have to reinstall everything again?
[20:43] <ScottK> Upgrading should be fine.  If you have to reinstall we messed up bad.
[20:43] <kiffi1> Had a heck of a time getting my atheros wifi card to work properly so this should be okay right?
[20:44] <kiffi1> Alright then, here I go. Keep those old fingers crossed...
[20:47] <kiffi1> I have a dual boot Windows Vista (1st partition) and Ubuntu 8.10 (2nd partition), can I use gparted to remove the 1st and move/resize the original Ubuntu partition to take up the whole disk?
[21:07]  * ogra would like to know why evo forgets his pop passwd after every reboot
[21:07] <directhex> it forgets your password on every failed connection
[21:07] <directhex> on the assumption that it must've been a password-based fail
[21:08] <ogra> hmm, it didnt do that in hardy
[21:08] <ogra> i cant even remember when i had to type it in the last time
[21:08] <ogra> probably early gutsy or so
[21:11] <slangasek> kirkland: did you get a security review of the mount counter?
[21:25] <maco> ogra: i think it does do that in hardy.  i just unlocked my screen after it being off overnight, and it was prompting for my IMAP password
[21:26] <ogra> maco, well, i'm sure it didnt do that for me
[21:27] <ogra> and it does it on every reboot in intrepid since about a week (it didnt do it either in intrepid until recently)
[21:27] <maco> ogra: i dont think it did that a few months ago, but i'm not sure
[21:28] <maco> er, not the computer being off, the screen being locked overnight.
[21:30] <Laney> TheMuso_, crimsun: Commented on the pulseaudio race bug. Latest fix seems to nail it for me, good work
[21:37] <LimCore> hi
[21:37] <LimCore> how to have my event.sh evecuted when ever the power button is pressed?
[21:40] <maco> now that acpi-support's going away
[21:40] <maco> (adding to the end of LimCore's question)
[21:42] <wgrant> cjwatson: It's not entirely, but somebody upstream decided to merge it anyway... I've got a new version pretty much ready, but I'm talking to upstream. And what is "the above"? I can't see any relevant conversation earlier.
[21:46] <LimCore> is there nttp NEWS access to ubutnu devels ML ?
[21:48] <persia> LimCore, There's some mirrors, but nothing official.
[21:57] <slangasek> TheMuso_: is bug #273507 something we should fix for intrepid?
[22:03] <cjwatson> wgrant: I mentioned your name about a page above that (on my screen anyway) when asking bryce/timo if they were aware of your patch; but doesn't matter, you got the idea anyway
[22:04] <wgrant> cjwatson: Ah, right, lastlog sees it.
[22:04] <bryce> yeah we were just chatting about that
[22:04] <wgrant> The tapping fix is fine to go in.
[22:05] <wgrant> The syndaemon one isn't small, but it reduces the overall patch size and simplifies it significantly, and it's less braindead and thus less likely to crash in the signal handler.
[22:07] <wgrant> (and syndaemon isn't used by many, and most existing users run it in the old SHMConfig mode, which this change doesn't touch)
[22:09] <maco> wgrant: i mentioned your patch in a security talk at Ohio Linux Fest because SHMConfig isn't exactly nice for security
[22:09] <wgrant> We've very nearly got rid of the need for it.
[22:12] <wgrant> bryce: New debdiff on bug #270002. I've also attached the more useful final patch to syndaemon, as the diff between the two patches is horrific.
[22:19] <bryce> wgrant: hmm, that's a more involved patch than I'd hoped
[22:20] <wgrant> It is, yes.
[22:21] <wgrant> But with the old one, you're likely to be without a touchpad until you reboot if the signal handler doesn't work properly. And my old signal handler was awful.
[22:22] <emgent> heya
[22:23] <bryce> wgrant: how much testing has been done on this so far?
[22:25] <wgrant> bryce: I've been using it for a couple of days in both configs, and I had two forums users test a version that was only slightly different.
[22:25] <bryce> wgrant, the 106_fix_twofinger_disentanglement.patch patch that closes #270002 I'm totally comfortable with, it's the other patch I'm less certain about
[22:25] <wgrant> Same.
[22:25] <wgrant> 106 is clearly fine.
[22:26] <bryce> as well, the other patch is fixing a non-release-critical bug
[22:26] <bryce> so I'm wondering, would it be okay if we isolated this to just the fix for the release critical bug for now?
[22:26] <wgrant> If you feel that way, of course.
[22:27] <wgrant> I realise it's likely far too late for the 104 changes, but it's a nasty problem and it was worth a try.
[22:52] <bryce> wgrant: ok, I've uploaded that fix
[22:52] <bryce> wgrant: the syndaemon fix may still be doable, but I'd like to see it get some additional independent testing first
[22:52] <maco> bryce: if im running intrepid in a vm, can i test it?
[22:53] <wgrant> bryce: Sure.
[22:53] <wgrant> bryce: Thanks.
[22:53] <maco> or is actual hardware required?
[22:53] <wgrant> You'd need a touchpad, and VMs don't have touchpads.
[22:53] <bryce> maco: yeah hw required
[22:54]  * maco looks at unused laptop
[22:54] <bryce> wgrant, I figure separating these out will make future regression testing simpler too, in case there's problems
[22:54] <crimsun> maco: get daily-live, get deb, install deb, restart gdm
[22:55] <maco> crimsun: you're smart
[22:55] <maco> ooo so this is why i bought more blank cds a few weeks ago
[22:55] <crimsun> no, I'm crimsun.
[22:55] <wgrant> bryce: True, true.
[22:56] <maco> wgrant: do you have 32 and 64bit debs available in your ppa?
[22:56] <wgrant> maco: They should both be there, yes.
[22:56] <wgrant> And lpia, if you're that way inclined.
[22:56] <maco> ok
[22:57] <wgrant> maco: Make sure you get ~wgrant2 and not ~wgrant1.
[22:58] <maco> hey, there's no daily live
[22:58] <maco> just alternate
[22:59] <persia> maco, Which arch?
[22:59] <maco> there's no daily live for x86 or amd64
[23:00] <persia> I have an i386 daily live from the 17th.
[23:00] <maco> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20081017/ <-- not there
[23:00] <wgrant> maco: For testing syndaemon, try to use it as normal both with and without -S. Also kill it in various ways (just not SIGKILL) and make sure you're not left with your touchpad not working.
[23:00] <persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ has some links to the latest ones.  New ones come out in three or four hours.
[23:01] <maco> ah ok thanks
[23:01] <bryce> slangasek, pitti: fix for 270002 has been uploaded; please review/approve
[23:01] <slangasek> ack
[23:05] <persia> maco, daily is the alternate CD.  daily-live is the live CD.  That said, I wonder why Ubuntu Desktop didn't get generated for i386/amd64, as I did get a daily alternate for Ubuntu Desktop lpia and Ubuntu Studio i386.
[23:06] <maco> persia: yeah, i got the url wrong
[23:06] <maco> it exists
[23:08] <persia> Oh.  You typed it wrong in the browser and perfectly in IRC?  I see.  Sorry for the confusion.
[23:08] <bryce> cjwatson: ok debs built for testing for 264462, for all combinations of patches.  I'm cool to upload whatever combo solves the problem.
[23:09] <bryce> cjwatson: it sounds like the OEM folks are going to need some of my time this evening and this weekend, so I'm going to nip out to get a haircut right now, and will be back in an hour or so.
[23:09] <cody-somerville> doh
[23:09] <cody-somerville> I wanted to get a haircut today
[23:09] <cody-somerville> I totally forgot
[23:09]  * jdong got a haircut today :)
[23:10]  * maco doesn't get haircuts
[23:22] <calc> damn it why is launchpad always going down
[23:22] <calc> that is twice in the past what two days now
[23:23]  * calc thinks launchpad needs some sort of backup so they don't have to take the whole thing down every week or so
[23:23] <wgrant> They must have found some regression in 2.1.10.
[23:23] <mthaddon> calc, it's a follow up to yesterday's rollout
[23:23] <slangasek> launchpad is always going down because Canonical pays a team of programmers to make changes to it. :)
[23:23] <calc> mthaddon: ok
[23:24] <calc> slangasek: yes but usually for important sites there is some sort of redundancy
[23:24] <calc> they do it late at night european time which is almost always while i am still working here in the US :\
[23:24]  * calc hopes it is another short 20min outage like yesterday
[23:25] <mthaddon> will see what I can do (expect it to be a short one)
[23:25] <calc> mthaddon: ok
[23:25] <calc> i guess the big deal is that there is only one database server on the backend so whenever they do make changes it takes the whole thing down?
[23:26] <calc> i guess i can use this time to do the complete reinstall of my laptop that i wanted to try out
[23:26] <slangasek> calc: er, considering how often the roll-outs include database schema changes, db server redundancy doesn't help
[23:27] <calc> slangasek: maybe those should be stacked together to only do database changes every (large time gap) apart
[23:27]  * wgrant notes that read-only-launchpad is nearly implemented, and should mean that Launchpad will be up, though read-only, during rollouts.
[23:27] <calc> wgrant: ok that would help quite a bit
[23:27] <wgrant> calc: It done monthly now...
[23:27] <wgrant> s/It/It's/
[23:27] <calc> wgrant: ah it seemed more often than that, but maybe i just have bad timing of when i work on a lot of bug reports, heh :)
[23:28] <calc> i think part of it may be the multiday rollouts though, i remember one time lp was down for a long time (6hr+ iirc)
[23:28] <calc> then out again the next day for a while, but i might be wrong about that
[23:28] <wgrant> The last time it was down for ages for a rollout was for the Rosetta schema changes.
[23:29] <wgrant> That was particularly bad because somebody stuffed up the time calculation, and they had to abort the 8-hour upgrade before it was finished, and schedule an even more ridiculous window for some other day.
[23:29] <calc> wgrant: would there be some way with read-only lp to queue up changes while it is running in that mode to not commit them to the database until later?
[23:29] <calc> iirc there is some way to make changes via email as well, which basically would be queued anyway, right?
[23:29] <wgrant> calc: That's probably a lot more work than it'd be worth...
[23:30] <cjwatson> maco: doesn't get haircuts> that's the one true way to do it
[23:30] <calc> wgrant: ah yea i think that is the outage i am remembering, heh
[23:30]  * wgrant hasn't had a haircut for a little while.
[23:31] <slangasek> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance very very soon." heh
[23:31] <wgrant> I wonder how much of the downtime window is actually upgrading things, and how much is stopping and starting it all.
[23:31] <maco> cjwatson: well, ok, its a lie. i get a haircut when, once a year, my mom gets sick of my split ends and makes me get a hair cut.  but id rather it just get longer
[23:33] <calc> hmm that reminds me i need to get a haircut
[23:34]  * calc looks a bit shaggy for his wife's school reunion tomorrow
[23:34] <cjwatson> you know, just after reading news about an LP code update, I should know not to try to 'bzr up'
[23:35] <wgrant> Does maintenance really could as scheduled if we're told an hour beforehand?
[23:35] <wgrant> GAH
[23:35] <wgrant> s/could/count/
[23:37] <brendan_> is OpenOffice.org 3, going to make it into ibex?
[23:38] <RainCT> brendan_: Not for the CD. Into -updates/-backports, I don't know.
[23:38] <brendan_> dam (am using ibex, now and would like to try it)
[23:38] <RainCT> brendan_: there's a PPA
[23:39] <slangasek> not into -updates, switching OOo major versions is not an appropriate SRU
[23:39] <RainCT> brendan_: https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-maints/+archive or something like that (I've just closed my web browser so I don't know the exact url)
[23:39] <slangasek> but there's a PPA and it might find its way into -backports, yes
[23:39] <brendan_> cool
[23:40] <calc> brendan_: ~openoffice-pkgs/  of course lp is down now
[23:40] <brendan_> might just install it from the main OOo website
[23:40] <calc> brendan_: well if you want less bugs the one on the ppa should be better
[23:41] <calc> brendan_: or you could get the one from go-oo.org which is roughly equivalent
[23:41] <brendan_> calc, ok
[23:41] <brendan_> thanks all
[23:42] <calc> brendan_: ubuntu's uses ooo-build which is what go-oo.org uses and has 500+ patches that aren't in upstream
[23:42] <brendan_> oh, ok
[23:55] <calc> hmm lp is still working
[23:56] <wgrant> calc: It's back.


[11:53] <Yaron-Heb> I need some clarifications about beagle, can someone please help?
[12:12] <andrejz> about usage or translations?
[15:04] <damascene> Hi,
[15:05] <damascene> is it possible to add translators for a team and require all their translations to be reviewed?
[15:05] <damascene> *to a team
[15:21] <askhl> damascene, only by verbal agreement.
[15:22] <damascene> I see. I found that there is reviewer mode and translator mode. can not I assign some people to be only translators?
[15:27] <askhl> That's the same as not having them in the team, provided the project developers declared the translation policy as either 'structured' or 'restricted'
[15:28] <askhl> Only 'structured', I think actually
[15:31] <damascene> but there should be a difference between team leaders and members
[15:31] <askhl> damascene, not for who can translate what, unfortunately
[15:33] <askhl> (I agree, by the way.  I would like a system where members propose collections of translations and gets them reviewed, then ask the team leader to `commit' this group of translations)
[15:33] <damascene> those who want to translate but they don't have the quality required yet. how can you keep your eyes on them? if they were on your team with less qualification you can send them messages when you wish
[15:34] <damascene> Is there any request for such a thing that I can join or should I open one?
[15:35] <damascene> A possible work a round is a sub team maybe
[15:36] <askhl> damascene, if you open one, I'll definitely support it.  TLE once suggested a function for people to `approve' of individual translations, but this didn't get anywhere.  I also think that a way to select/handle multiple translations at once is the way forward.  Our team has a long and continuing history of confusion when it comes to who should do what and how.
[15:37] <damascene> should I file a bug against rosetta or what?
[15:37] <askhl> (When I keep talking about selecting groups of translations, it's because that way, some non-team-leaders can collaborate on a large set of translations, and the team leader can approve them at once without managing every single message.  That's how development usually works, including translations based on po-files under version control)
[15:38] <askhl> damascene, since I'm also interested in this, let's do a survey of what exists before we do anything
[15:38] <askhl> Probably many people had this idea previously
[15:38] <damascene> ok, I'll wait
[15:39] <askhl> You could also browse around the launchpad/rosetta blueprints and bugs
[15:39] <damascene> ok
[15:47] <askhl> I can't really see anything related
[15:48] <askhl> In any case this is not something that's going to be fixed tomorrow, and one can go about solving the issue in many ways
[15:49] <damascene> askhl: I checked too, nothing related. Should I file a bug?
[15:49] <askhl> As I mentioned, I would to delegate both translation and review to possibly different groups of people, and then have a coordinator approve the entire collection of strings.  This is just one way
[15:49] <damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/42727 is about bulk review
[15:50] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 42727 in launchpad "Bulk-review and -approve somebody's translations (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,Triaged]
[15:50] <askhl> Ahh yes.  Excellent
[15:52] <askhl> As I mentioned: What you would like is the same as having structured permissions (set by the developers) + some people not in the translation team + some people in the translation team
[15:53] <askhl> Right?  So what exactly would have to change?
[15:54] <damascene> let me say it simple. I want people with only translation permission in my team. others are both translators and reviewers.
[15:54] <askhl> So that's the same as having some people not in the team (translators) and some in the team (translators and reviewers)
[15:54] <damascene> no
[15:55] <damascene> many people complain when a team owner does not let them in
[15:55] <askhl> (the translators can also be in a separate team)
[15:55] <damascene> and he can not because he will have to check them first or things might go bad
[15:56] <damascene> true. as I said earlier that could be a possible work around.
[15:57] <damascene> for every translation team there will be two teams. Translators team and reviewers team. or Launchpad can support this and save us the troubles.
[15:57] <askhl> damascene, then I think that should be the suggestion.  The only possibly non-trivial issue is how their mailing lists relate
[15:58] <damascene> we add the reviewer team as sub team
[15:59] <damascene> but that does not need a suggestion, I think. that what launchpad already have.
[16:00] <damascene> create team A and B. A is official and B is just to group interested people.
[16:00] <damascene> got it?
[16:00] <askhl> Yes.
[16:01] <askhl> So one way would be to somehow make B an `official' team also.  So both teams are official.
[16:01] <askhl> Just with different rights.
[16:02] <damascene> official means it can submit without review.
[16:03] <askhl> Except if we define official in some other way.  So as to make people happy when they are accepted into it.  Which is the only problem with the present approach - that they're not happy when they get declined after requesting membership.
[16:05] <damascene> brb
[16:10] <andrejz> @damascene: We have the same structure in slovenian team
[16:11] <andrejz> First is for new translators and it's called translators team and only has permissions to suggest things
[16:11] <andrejz> and the second is called Quality assurance team and they have full permission to edit files
[16:12] <andrejz> So all work that is done by the first group MUST be reviewed and approved before it gets into ubuntu
[16:12] <andrejz> this arrangement works really well for us
[16:12] <andrejz> brb
[16:14] <damascene> andrejz: that is a good practice
[16:17] <damascene> askhl: so what is the move now?
[16:22] <askhl> It sounds like the dual team solution works well for the intended purposes.  I'd still like the bulk commit functionality because it allows coordinators to make use of the work of others in a more ad-hoc way which poses less requirements on the structuring of groups
[16:22] <askhl> (and doesn't require coordinators to actively proofread many suggestions, in case the suggestions are deemed sufficiently high-quality)
[16:24] <damascene> it works well but launchpad supporting having translators only in your team is better.
[16:27] <askhl> Actually I think I'll create a "secondary" team for our translation team now.  I've been thinking about this for a while but never got around to it
[16:29] <damascene> ok
[16:37] <damascene> askhl: do you have an Idea about what will happen if you added the reviewer team as sub-team to the open team?
[16:37] <damascene> does that effect any permissions?
[16:43] <andrejz> @askhl: reviewing doesn't take much time if suggestions are of good quality. also you can suggest improvements to less experienced translators. Furthermore even experienced translators make mistakes like typos and such (or maybe working late and are less concentrated)
[16:44] <andrejz> hence i think it's a good idea to review all the translations (both from beginners and experienced tranlators)
[16:44] <andrejz> if manpower is sufficient, of course
[16:45] <gtriderxc> " reviewing doesn't take much time if suggestions are of good quality"
[16:46] <gtriderxc> " reviewing doesn't" Make much SENSE "if suggestions are of good quality"
[16:46] <andrejz> it does because people still make mistakes
[16:46] <andrejz> no translation is perfect
[16:47] <andrejz> i have not seen any package with 100 strings or more without any (at least minor gramatical) mistakes
[16:47] <andrejz> it just depends how high you set the quality bar
[16:48] <damascene> +1
[16:48] <askhl> damascene, if you add the reviewer team as a subteam, nothing should happen at all - the reviewers will just happen to also be members of another team (having no other implications)
[16:50] <damascene> good. they will get the mail list discussions too
[16:54] <askhl> andrejz, I agree that reviewing good translations takes little time, but I still believe that reviewing (saying "I approve of this message") and "committing" (saying "this message is now part of the distribution") should be separable actions.  In particular I would like a different set of people to do these things, and I'd like to have a low bar for being a reviewer (basically none) but a high bar for being a committer.  For what it's wor
[16:56] <askhl> (Also: In our team, all translations are reviewed, but we'd like to get the new translators more involved in the review of their messages instead of simply correcting-and-approving their strings)
[16:57] <askhl> (This has some historical precedence as our team also works upstream in many places, and mostly reviews are done by sending po-files in e-mails, which turns out to be very flexible)
[17:06] <gtriderxc> "no translation is perfect"
[17:06] <gtriderxc> U would be surprised
[17:07] <gtriderxc> how many times I make something work in a program by translating it
[17:08] <gtriderxc> I think I make less mistakes translating than the native already has
[17:08] <gtriderxc> I made a Software Center translation because it was useless
[17:11] <gtriderxc> Polish users use synaptic if they choose Ubuntu at all
[17:12] <damascene> software center is easier
[17:12] <gtriderxc> now it is
[17:12] <gtriderxc> but there is a mess
[17:12] <gtriderxc> hard to find what You're looking for
[17:13] <gtriderxc> too many ppl give too many names in too many ways
[17:14] <gtriderxc> in 60-70% i was unable to translate the description of a program without looking 4 it in the internet or even installing it
[17:14] <gtriderxc> so one will tell me that "no translation is perfect"
[17:15] <damascene> I think the description is shared with synaptic, isn't it?
[17:15] <gtriderxc> :) nut in synaptic there is an alphabetical order
[17:15] <gtriderxc> ORDER
[17:15] <gtriderxc> ther is an ORDER at all
[17:16] <damascene> I see
[17:16] <gtriderxc> so now our Polish Center is relative clear
[17:17] <gtriderxc> everyone can see which program is for what
[17:17] <gtriderxc> in English software center You have to know what are You looking 4
[17:18] <damascene> looks like your software center do things without you having to know about it :)
[17:19] <gtriderxc> so an example:
[17:19] <damascene> did you build it from scratch or you just modified synaptic
[17:21] <gtriderxc> we have a search engine in SC, haven't we??
[17:21] <gtriderxc> so
[17:21] <gtriderxc> the engine looks 4 key words
[17:22] <gtriderxc> many english apps in SC have no key words
[17:22] <gtriderxc> !!
[17:22] <damascene> that is a problem
[17:22] <gtriderxc> so if you're looking for a stupid pdf reader in english SC, You will find only few of them
[17:23] <gtriderxc> in "MY" ours polish if You write pdf, You will finf them all
[17:23] <damascene> SC does not search the description, wired
[17:23] <gtriderxc> it looks for h1 and h2 doesn't it??
[17:25] <damascene> I did not use it that much. don't know
[17:25] <gtriderxc> :)
[17:25] <gtriderxc> so You use synaptic rather:)
[17:26] <damascene> I just use apt or aptitude
[17:26] <damascene> it does the job for me
[17:27] <gtriderxc> so You were first a Linux user and then Ubuntu user probably. I was first a Ubuntu user and now i'm becoming a real Linux user
[17:27] <damascene> :)
[17:28] <gtriderxc> anyway where R U from??
[17:29] <damascene> I'm Arabic
[17:29] <damascene> aptitude search whatever
[17:29] <damascene> get every thing you want
[17:30] <damascene> I leave in Saudi Arabia
[17:30] <gtriderxc> wow:)
[17:30] <gtriderxc> so I saw Sun shining recently:)
[17:30] <gtriderxc> I haven't since a few weeks:)
[17:31] <gtriderxc> only clouds and snow
[17:31] <damascene> :D
[17:32] <damascene> you should see it in the summer. it burns. :)
[17:32] <gtriderxc> but not as much as at Your place
[17:32] <andrejz> @gtriderxc:  this means english descriptions are not perfect either
[17:32] <gtriderxc> right
[17:33] <gtriderxc> I report many bugs in them
[17:33] <andrejz> what i was trying to say is that i have reviewed many programs (some of them i have translated myself and then reviewed them a month or so later).
[17:33] <gtriderxc> it happens
[17:34] <gtriderxc> i also correct myself
[17:34] <andrejz> i have find at least a couple of minor mistakes in all of them - that's why i think it's worth reviewing, because you remove a lot of minor glitches thisway
[17:34] <andrejz> of course some still remain
[17:34] <gtriderxc> not very often but it happens
[17:34] <gtriderxc> the Polish problem is we have no ppl to translate corectly
[17:35] <gtriderxc> there are ppl who open Rosetta and give some stupid suggestions to correctly translated strings
[17:35] <andrejz> of course what i said makes sense if there is enough people to do it
[17:35] <gtriderxc> so the problem is more to organize it all
[17:36] <andrejz> if there are not enough people i guess one must make a compromise
[17:36] <gtriderxc> the problem is also in Polish administrator
[17:37] <gtriderxc> he doesn't do too much and do not allow new people to do too much
[17:37] <andrejz> well that's another issue. fortunatley the previous leader of our group stepped down gracefully when he realised he didn't have time anymore
[17:37] <andrejz> brb
[17:37] <gtriderxc> our do not have time either
[17:38] <gtriderxc> he never answer any of my email
[17:38] <gtriderxc> *answerde
[17:38] <gtriderxc> *answered
[17:40] <damascene> I suggest ubuntu start charging who ever does not benefit the community
[17:40] <damascene> then who does the work can get paid
[17:42] <gtriderxc> i think Ubuntu do not stands on its feet well enough to do it
[17:43] <gtriderxc> do not stands:)
[17:43] <gtriderxc> I sometimes like to read things I wrote:)
[17:43] <damascene> :)
[17:44] <gtriderxc> as far as I know already myself I know that I have to read every translation I make
[17:46] <gtriderxc> I make many typing errors especially by switching the letters. for example taht>instaed of>that. my left hend writes to slow:)
[17:46] <gtriderxc> *hand:)
[17:46] <damascene> you might try to learn colemak or what ever it's called
[17:46] <damascene> and try to work early in the morning
[17:57] <andrejz> @gtridexrc: i think paying money is bad, because than greedy people concentrate on quantity rather than quality and we don't want those people
[17:58] <andrejz> also, meet on a beer with your administrator
[17:58] <andrejz> i am sure you will be able to sort things out then ;)
[18:04] <askhl> the power of beer should not be underestimated...
[18:04] <andrejz> +1
[18:04] <andrejz> also if it doesn't work you can always drik MORE :)
[18:09] <gtriderxc> :)
[18:10] <andrejz> we meet on beer once per month. not everyone can come all the time, but it's still very good, so i highly recommend (if the distance is not too great obviously)