[12:17] <ryanakca> freeflying_: system settings -> Regional & Languages -> Keyboard Layout
[12:18] <ryanakca> Set your keyboard model
[12:18] <ryanakca> freeflying_: keyboard & mouse -> keyboard shortcuts
[12:18] <Riddell> Mez: hi
[12:19] <freeflying_> ryanakca: I mean some func key, like Fn+Fx
[12:20] <Mez> Riddell: just an FYI... I have a couple of patches to put into katapult in main ... fix for bug 48103 and bug 60136
[12:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48103 in katapult "Katapult don't start with swedish localisation" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48103
[12:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60136 in katapult "Katapult doesn't work with Amarok >= 1.4.2" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60136
[12:23] <Mez> Riddell, I've spoken to tfheen regarding them - he's going to speak to you after I post the patch for the second
[12:24] <Mez> Riddell: however, the first one's been available for a while (but I only found out about it last week due to it being filed under ubuntu and not showing up in any of my buglists)
[12:32] <Riddell> Mez: and you think these should get into edgy?
[12:32] <Riddell> interesting website redesign http://flavio.tordini.org/kubuntu-restyling/
[12:32] <mhb> Riddell: yeah
[12:32] <Riddell> interesting how it uses gnome icons
[12:32] <mhb> Riddell: I'm writing just now that it's an interesting idea
[12:34] <mhb> Riddell: Ken's doing some modification to the website too, right?
[12:36] <Riddell> yes
[12:37] <Mez> Riddell: yes I do ... they're pretty important fixes really... 1) it means katapult doesnt work in anything other than english language if not
[12:37] <Mez> 2) a core catalog doesnt work with the version in edgy
[12:39] <Riddell> Mez: when will you have the patch posted?
[12:40] <Mez> in about 10 mins when I've had someone test it ;)
[12:40] <Mez> unless you want to ?
[12:40] <Mez> (I dont have access to a linux machine at present)
[12:41] <imbrandon> Tonio_, pong
[01:02] <Tonio_> imbrandon: fancy testing the packages for mulmedia stuff ?*
[01:03] <Mez> anyone fancy testing the fix for amarok/katapult ?
[01:04] <ryanakca> freeflying_: func key?
[01:04] <freeflying_> ryanakca: some functions key
[01:05] <ryanakca> freeflying_: like vol up/down? or something else?
[01:05] <ryanakca> if something else, no clue :)
[01:06] <freeflying_> ryanakca: vol up/down
[01:06] <ryanakca> yeah, you can set it by setting your keyboard model
[01:07] <imbrandon> Tonio_, sure, cf query
[01:13] <Mez> Riddell: patch attached to bug 60136
[01:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60136 in katapult "Katapult doesn't work with Amarok >= 1.4.2" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60136
[01:23] <ryanakca> umm, how do I change my resolution without restarting X or editing my xorg.conf since the Monitor & Display of System Settings is broken?
[01:23] <ryanakca> bug 62223
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62223
[01:28] <ryanakca> anyone mind my editing https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyKnownProblems so that it looks more like https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperKnownProblems
[01:29] <ryanakca> and removing the fixed bugs from that list?
[01:30] <Riddell> Mez: got a debdiff against the current katapult?
[01:31] <nixternal> Riddell: so we are kind of hosed on fixing the release notes?
[01:33] <Riddell> nixternal: yep
[01:33] <nixternal> alright...im going to work with jjesse, and from now on, every version# will become an entity. that way there, we can update version numbers w/o working about translation strings
[01:34] <nixternal> fdoving just showed me 2 spelling mistakes as well in there...that kind of makes me mad that I let that slip through the cracks
[01:34] <ryanakca> nixternal: hosed on fixing the release notes? *wonders if this applies to the editing I'm doing at the moment*
[01:35] <nixternal> no no
[01:35] <nixternal> release notes in the kubuntu-docs package
[01:35] <ryanakca> kk, phew :)
[01:36] <nixternal> ryanakca: if you want to help out more with documentation, im sure myself, jjesse, trappist, and robotgeek can put you to work come feisty work
[01:36] <nixternal> oh btw, if you are interested, jjesse and i will begin work on a "Switching from Windows to Kubuntu" book as well
[01:36] <ryanakca> oooh, very :)
[01:37] <nixternal> we will have a guide the will do desktop to desktop migration, but i would like to expand on that and also cover the main applications as well, i.e., Office to OOo or KOffice
[01:37] <ryanakca> not sure to what extend I can help, but I'd love to help wherever I can
[01:38] <nixternal> grab the trunk svn from doc repos, follow along in there, learn some docbook and xml if you do't know it already...docbook and xml is very easy
[01:39] <nixternal> i have kind of expanded in doc work, as I do the Kubuntu docs, now the Edubuntu docs (Handbook mostly) and working with KDE docs and learning the debian.docbook stuff
[01:40] <ryanakca> kindof like what's that book called... umm... by Marcel Gagne
[01:40] <ryanakca> "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye! "
[01:41] <nixternal> heh, ya, but Kubuntu specific
[01:43] <ryanakca> kk, comes with a kubuntu live CD I presume?
[01:43] <ryanakca> XML from what I see, it's sole purpose is to organise information
[01:43] <nixternal> yup
[01:44] <nixternal> and then we use kde and kubuntu css and xsl templates to make the docs look the way they do
[01:45] <ryanakca> ah
[01:45] <ryanakca> ok, wheres the docbook howto/tutorial
[01:46] <nixternal> http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html
[01:46] <nixternal> how about the book instead ;)
[01:47] <ryanakca> *cough* *cough* *hack* *choke* *sputter* *dead*
[01:47] <nixternal> [18:47:15]  [Notice]  -ChanServ- You have been added to the access list for #ubuntu-colorado with level [10]
[01:47] <ryanakca> I thought you said it was simple :)
[01:47] <nixternal> i wonder if that was by accident?
[01:47] <ryanakca> the table of contents scares me :)
[01:47] <ryanakca> lol, no clue...
[01:48] <nixternal> it is simple, it is as easy as html, especially once you get a grip on the tags
[01:48] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[01:48] <nixternal> that link will kind of go over the doc team stuff as well
[01:48] <ryanakca> ah, well, I'll look at it...
[01:50] <ryanakca> "Rights are granted by current Documentation Team administrators after some substantial contribution to the project. "  :)
[01:50] <ryanakca> I guess in mean time, I'll be emailing stuff to you :D
[01:54] <nixternal> yes
[01:54] <ryanakca> nixternal: wheres the svn trunk?
[01:54] <nixternal> easier to mail the doc-list
[01:54] <ryanakca> kk
[01:54] <nixternal> https://docteam.ubuntu.com
[01:54] <nixternal> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk i think is the full
[01:54] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[01:56] <ryanakca> nixternal: think anybody would mind my editing https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyKnownProblems so that it looks more like https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperKnownProblems ?
[01:58] <ryanakca> nixternal: I think docteam.ubuntu.com is down... "The server at <IP_ADDRESS> is taking too long to respond."
[02:00] <nixternal> great, that would be because the italian loco is so massive and popular
[02:00] <nixternal> it is up
[02:12] <ryanakca> kk, ty
[02:14] <ryanakca> nixternal: kubuntu/desktopguide/ ?
[02:15] <ryanakca> nixternal: and how would I export it? (I've never had to use svn before)
[02:19] <ryanakca> nixternal: and on Kubuntu/Release, why [[MailTo(foo AT bar DOT guru,foo(at)bar(dot)guru)] ]  instead of [[MailTo(foo AT bar DOT guru)] ] ?
[04:24] <httpdss> im trying to use keep for backup, the thing is that as destination i select remote:/Backup (which references smb://192.168.xxx.xxx/Backup) ... when trying to backup, log shows error, as if i dont have RW access to that share, but i do have RW access through konqueror... any clue? can someone reproduce this ?...
[06:03] <DaSkreech> How goes?
[06:07] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: It doesn't.
[06:08] <DaSkreech> Are you being Fiesty?
[06:08] <Tm_T> Fiesty?
[06:09] <DaSkreech> What s left to be wrapped up for Edgy Release?
[06:09] <Tm_T> Sorry I lost you, wave a bit so I may notice you in the sand.
[06:17] <crimsun> DaSkreech: more testing than you can shake Hobbsee's stick at
[06:17] <DaSkreech> Who's been shaking Hobbsee's stick?
[06:18] <crimsun> I think...she has?
[06:29] <DaSkreech> Oooh Memory Stick?
[06:29] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: ...
[06:30] <DaSkreech> How are you Hobbsee? I haven't seen you in like a month
[06:30] <Hobbsee> that stick.
[06:30] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: uni'ing, fixing unmet deps, etc
[06:31] <DaSkreech> Hows Uni? Still mkaing you get up early?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> yeah.  when i get there :P
[06:32] <Tm_T> Bit OT but this is the way docs should be: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-speakingunix4/?ca=dgr-lnxw07UNIXpart4
[06:32] <Tm_T> "From the dawn of the electronic age a scant 50 years ago..."
[08:27] <Lure> why does kontact show News icon, even though knode is not installed by default?
[10:36] <seaLne> Lure: known feature, was discussed a while ago can't remember what was said tho
[10:42] <Mez> seaLne, w00 for organising akademy, wheres it going to be (not the city, the venue)
[10:46] <seaLne> strath.ac.uk
[10:46] <seaLne> says on the website :)
[10:47] <seaLne> fancy helping? :)
[10:48] <seaLne> grrr i was happy kpilot started working again in edgy but it has now removed all my todo and calendar entries :(
[10:48] <seaLne> it synced them all to my computer and removed them from my treo :(
[10:49] <seaLne> i have a completly empty cal and todo
[11:04] <mhb> can somebody explain to me why some KDE icons are in hicolor and other in crystalsvg ... what is the difference?
[11:06] <seaLne> maybe there aren't crystal icons for them
[11:06] <mhb> seaLne: well the problem is the crystal icons for them (Konqueror, for instance) resides in hicolor insted of crystalsvg
[11:07] <mhb> my question is related to the bug 67507 I'm looking at right now
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67507 in kdebase "Some image files are missing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67507
[11:08] <mhb> (so many typos in one sentence)
[11:08] <seaLne> ok, that dosen't sound like what i said
[11:09] <mhb> seaLne: judging by the look of the icons the Crystal icons have been moved to hicolor, I just don't understand why
[11:12] <seaLne> sorry not sure
[11:14] <mhb> seaLne: no problem :o)
[11:15] <seaLne> i'm currently trying to restore my life to my palm :-/
[11:15] <seaLne> nixternal: you use a palm don't you?
[11:16] <marseillai> does someone use smart on kubuntu?
[11:19] <fdoving> as in the package manager?
[11:35] <Lure> seaLne: search in ~/.kde sometimes you find backup files when stuff is lost
[11:36] <Lure> seaLne: kmail deleted 3800 mails from my imap and I have found them still in disconnected impa folder
[11:38] <marseillai> fdoving: yes! it segfault for me
[11:39] <fdoving> marseillai: i don't have it installed, hang on. installing.
[11:39] <Lure> imbrandon: how do you package oxygen icons as icon theme? (you gave me once your tar file, but I have misplaced it somewhere... ;-))
[11:40] <imbrandon> grab it from svn , then get the gen script from kwwii dir ( ken ) and run it
[11:40] <Lure> imbrandon: thanks
[11:47] <marseillai> fdoving: it works now but i really don't see why everybody talks about smart ......
[11:57] <fdoving> marseillai: don't know, might be usable for people that want something that works for both dpkg and rpm distros.
[12:19] <fdoving> nixternal: ohwell. is the example-contents, kubuntu presentation to be more precise, also totally frozen?
[12:21] <fdoving> (is it -doc?) stuff like 'TBD' 'Add some image here..' and everywhere says '6.06'..
[12:28] <fdoving> there is also a spelling mistake in kubuntu-leaflet.png - 'htpp://kubuntu.es'
[12:29] <fdoving> I'll make bugreports.
[12:35] <fdoving> are the example contents translated?
[12:38] <mhb> fdoving: I doubt it, at least in most languages
[12:40] <fdoving> then there might still be a chance.
[12:40] <mhb> if such Rosetta translation exists it's not visible on the first few pages
[12:41] <mhb> "Edgy example-content does not have any strings to be translated through Rosetta. "
[12:42] <fdoving> :)
[01:15] <_Sime> fdoving: ping
[01:18] <fdoving> _Sime: ack.
[01:25] <_Sime> fdoving: Can i get you to do a "strace -o displayconfig_py.txt displayconfig"? Just run it and cancel it immediately.
[01:25] <_Sime> fdoving: then I can compare the two traces, working vs non-working.
[01:26] <fdoving> will do.
[01:27] <fdoving> uploading. it'll be at http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/displayconfig_py.txt in ~2min. slow upload :|
[01:28] <fdoving> i could gzip it maybe.
[01:28] <fdoving> _Sime: it is at http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/displayconfig_py.txt.gz
[01:29] <_Sime> thanks.
[01:29] <_Sime> got it
[01:33] <_Sime> fdoving: Do you have a file called "python-support.pth" on your system?
[01:44] <fdoving> hang on, checking. (sorry about the delay)
[01:44] <fdoving> python-support: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/python-support.pth
[01:44] <fdoving> python-support: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/python-support.pth
[01:44] <fdoving> i have two of them.
[01:44] <_Sime> ok,
[01:46] <_Sime> fdoving: Which package does "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/iconv_codec.pth" belong to?
[01:47] <fdoving> python2.4-iconvcodec: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/iconv_codec.pth
[01:49] <_Sime> fdoving: do you know where that package came from?
[01:49] <fdoving> hmm.. checking.
[01:50] <fdoving> Maintainer: Changwoo Ryu<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:50] <fdoving> Version: 1.1.2-2.2ubuntu1
[01:50] <fdoving> probably ubuntu somewhere..
[01:50] <fdoving> it's not in the repos anymore.
[01:50] <_Sime> fdoving: is it in the edgy repository?
[01:50] <_Sime> ok
[01:50] <_Sime> I mean Ah ha!
[01:50] <_Sime> remove that package and then test displayconfig.
[01:50] <fdoving> hang on.
[01:53] <fdoving> wooohooo! :)
[01:53] <fdoving> _Sime: works. you rock. :)
[01:53] <_Sime> fdoving: and in kde-system-settings?
[01:54] <fdoving> ran with kcmshell displayconfig, checking in system settings now.
[01:54] <_Sime> looks good
[01:54] <fdoving> works in system settings too.
[01:55] <fdoving> all guidance modules are now working.
[01:55] <_Sime> whoohoo!
[01:55] <_Sime> I hope you didn't need that old package.
[01:56] <fdoving> probably didn't. I haven't re-installed since hoary. so it's probably just leftovers.
[02:01] <_Sime> fdoving: thanks for your effort with this. It would not have been possible to track the problem down without those traces.
[02:01] <fdoving> no problem, you did all the work :)
[02:02] <_Sime> it was a b*st*rd of a bug too.
[02:02] <fdoving> sure was.
[02:03] <_Sime> something to do with shared libraries / modules conflicting.
[02:04] <fdoving> also, this will probably only happen to people like me, who only update, and never reinstall.
[02:06] <fdoving> will you add a conflict to the kde-guidance package?
[02:07] <_Sime> I don't do any packaging, but yeah, I'll ask someone to add that conflict.
[02:07] <fdoving> ok :)
[02:22] <Tonio_> hi*
[02:24] <_Sime> hi
[02:25] <fdoving> hi.
[02:54] <Tonio_> _Sime: your patches finally couldn't go in.... too late
[02:54] <fdoving> know of any small package using cmake?
[02:54] <_Sime> Tonio_: none of them?
[02:54] <Tonio_> _Sime: no :(
[02:54] <Tonio_> _Sime: but i've prepared packages for fiesty
[02:55] <Tonio_> _Sime: not including the latest but the previous version, so that we can wait for konq segfault to be fixed
[02:55] <_Sime> Tonio_: will the new patches show up in an update?
[02:55] <Tonio_> _Sime: hum, hard to say...
[02:55] <Tonio_> _Sime: with the previous version, we have the segfault issue
[02:56] <Tonio_> _Sime: with the new patches, issues with 2 drives (which is a very common case)
[02:56] <Tonio_> _Sime: I think the reasonable way is to consider edgy as it is
[02:56] <Tonio_> something potentially unstable, and then focus on making fiesty more mature
[02:56] <Tonio_> _Sime: your patches are an attempt, as was systemsettings in the past
[02:57] <Tonio_> _Sime: something buggy but promissing, that will become great after 2 versions
[02:57] <Tonio_> _Sime: that's my feeling about them
[02:58] <Tonio_> _Sime: but Riddell will decide for updates, not me
[02:58] <_Sime> ok, thanks.
[02:59] <Tonio_> hum, I'm thinking about placing a bounty on a konqueror issue
[02:59] <Tonio_> we have released 4 kubuntu versions without fixing this out.......
[03:00] <fdoving> what issue is that?
[03:01] <Tonio_> fdoving: konqueror sometimes fail to mix kubuntu-default-settings
[03:02] <Tonio_> fdoving: that results incomplete menus etc.....
[03:02] <fdoving> aw. not good.
[03:02] <Tonio_> fdoving: it happens when konqueror is restored in a kde session, or when using preload session
[03:02] <Tonio_> fdoving: it also happens when opening certain links that open a new window
[03:03] <Tonio_> fdoving: should be linked to ksettings somehow, bads usage or something I don't know
[03:04] <Tonio_> fdoving: I'm trying to clearly define the bug first, but I think I'l place a bounty for this, because I really want it to be fixed
[03:04] <Tonio_> the problem is that the way kubuntu defines its settings is different than what other distros do
[03:04] <Tonio_> [Directories-default]
[03:04] <Tonio_> prefixes=/usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/
[03:04] <Tonio_> this is the way we do in kderc
[03:05] <Tonio_> fdoving: we can workarround in patching and hardcoding the settings in kdebase, but I don't want that
[03:06] <fdoving> hardcoding is generally bad.
[03:06] <fdoving> hmm..
[03:06] <fdoving> are you aware of a package in the repos using cmake?
[03:07] <Tonio_> fdoving: hum... yes :)
[03:07] <Riddell> strigi
[03:07] <Tonio_> qcomicbook
[03:07] <Riddell> kde 4
[03:07] <fdoving> thanks :)
[03:07] <Tonio_> fdoving: not sure, if it is cmake or scons, but I think it is cmake
[03:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: what about kde4 ? :)
[03:08] <fdoving> i'll get strigi, it's small and nice.
[03:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: ho you have been right not to change the session management in konq....
[03:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: the 'konqueror fail to load kds' happens very often
[03:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: all preloaded sessions are failing the settings, resulting incompletes menus
[03:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: we really need to get that fixed once an for all... I'm tired of workarrounding this issue everytime :)
[03:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: kde4 is cmake based ? hehe
[03:11] <fdoving> it is.
[03:11] <_Sime> Riddell: have you read the IRC backlog?
[03:11] <Riddell> _Sime: nope
[03:12] <_Sime> Riddell: ok, then. Long story short. The kde-guidance package needs a "Conflict: python2.4-iconvcodec" added.
[03:13] <Riddell> _Sime: is that's what has been causing the fail to load?
[03:13] <_Sime> Riddell: this solves bug 62223
[03:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62223
[03:13] <_Sime> Riddell: this is for that bug where all of the modules fail in k-s-s.
[03:14] <gnomefreak> should konq show an icon when a hd is mounted that is ext3?
[03:14] <Riddell> _Sime: do you know why it causes module to fail to load, and do you know why people have it installed?
[03:15] <_Sime> Riddell: iconvcodec is an old package no longer in the repo.
[03:16] <_Sime> Riddell: It contains a binary python module which gets read (for some reason) when Python starts up and runs the "site" module.
[03:16] <_Sime> Riddell: when python is embedded, the site module would fail thanks to iconvcodec.
[03:17] <_Sime> Riddell: I don't know why exactly iconvcodec would fail when embedded.
[03:17] <_Sime> Riddell: but since it isn't even in the repo anymore, I consider the solution found. => remove that package.
[03:17] <fdoving> it was in universe until dapper.
[03:18] <fdoving> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=iconvcodec&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[03:25] <Tonio_> fdoving: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=113517859227122&w=2
[03:25] <Tonio_> fdoving: could be a patch for our bug !
[03:26] <fdoving> nice :)
[03:26] <fdoving> compile & test then :)
[03:31] <Riddell> _Sime: sounds good, I'll upload the change
[03:36] <gnomefreak> fdoving: are you busy atm?
[03:36] <fdoving> Riddell: there is also bug 67527 67530 67537 if a change is possible before release. (not very very important, but first impression can be improved)
[03:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67527 in example-content "[edgy]  spelling mistake in kubuntu-leaflet.png" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67527
[03:37] <fdoving> gnomefreak: not very much. no.
[03:38] <gnomefreak> fdoving: care to help someone with konq, krusader, bleh kde apps that are not viewing his filesystem ( /etc/  /boot/ and the rest)
[03:38] <fdoving> gnomefreak: sure. where?
[03:38] <gnomefreak> nautilus shows them if he chooses show hidden
[03:38] <gnomefreak> #ubuntu+1
[03:38] <Riddell> mhb: hicolour is the fallback icon theme recognised by all freedesktop.org desktops, application icons go in there so they can be found by gnome and others
[03:39] <Riddell> mhb: send me a patch to ktip if you want and I'll commit it in KDE's SVN
[03:40] <Riddell> ryanakca: please do tidy up KubuntuEdgyKnownProblems if you havn't already
[03:40] <ryanakca> Riddell: already done
[03:40] <mhb> Riddell: what is the fastest way to rebuild kdelibs? dpkg-buildpackage every time?
[03:42] <Riddell> mhb: debuild (== dpkg-buildpackage with a few extra checks)  and debuild -nc after the first time which doesn't run make clean
[03:45] <fdoving> mhb: i can only second your suggestion to include 'kdict' on the cd, i started it yesterday when talking to you about it, and i still have it running, I use it too :)
[04:00] <ryanakca> nixternal: kubuntu/desktopguide/ ?
[04:00] <ryanakca> nixternal: and how would I export it? (I've never had to use svn before)
[04:03] <ryanakca> nevermind the last question :)
[04:04] <mhb> Riddell: the systemsettings bug is a tough one
[04:04] <Riddell> certainly is
[04:06] <mhb> Riddell: the only key.value() if (key.data() == "X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain") it prints is "desktop_kdelibs" ... I can't find that line anywhere
[04:09] <Riddell> mhb: I'm not sure what you're doing
[04:11] <mhb> Riddell: sorry ... if (QString(key.data()) == "X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain") { and then I print out key.data() an val.data() through qDebug()
[04:11] <Riddell> mhb: what program are you running to test it?
[04:13] <mhb> Riddell: none ... it's probably not the best way but I just recompiled the code with some qDebug() lines added and then watch what systemsettings say
[04:17] <Riddell> mhb: well systemsettings is special because it uses kbuildsycoca
[04:17] <Riddell> you could try running kbuildsycoca and see what happens
[04:21] <mhb> Riddell: so what program does open the .directory files?
[04:21] <mhb> Riddell: both strace and my primitive qDebug() lines indicate that it's not systemsettings itself
[04:21] <mhb> Riddell: is it kbuildsysoca?
[04:22] <Riddell> mhb: they're cached by kbuildsycoca and system settings just reads the cache
[04:26] <mhb> Riddell: thanks, strace confirms that ... but the code in kconfigbacked.cpp applies for kbuildsycoca too, right?
[04:26] <mhb> Riddell: or not?
[04:26] <Riddell> it /should/ do, but it may not
[04:27] <mhb> Riddell: it looks like it doesn't for some files
[04:28] <mhb> Riddell: which may be the trouble
[04:31] <mhb> Riddell: any idea why it shows so many "desktop_kdelibs" ? http://kubuntu.pastebin.ca/215260
[04:32] <Riddell> mhb: try adding the name of the .desktop file it's reading to the debug output
[04:32] <mhb> ok
[04:35] <Riddell> mhb: by the way it's faster just to run make && sudo make install in obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/kdecore
[04:39] <mhb> Riddell: thanks
[04:44] <fdoving> hmm.. what package introduces /.hidden ?
[04:44] <fdoving> the .hidden file in /
[04:45] <Riddell> kubuntu-default-settings
[04:46] <fdoving> so non-kde-ubuntu doesn't have it?
[04:48] <fdoving> it's not very compatible with using firefox. in firefox, when you select what application you want to use to open a certain filetype, you'll have to browse to find the binary. With /usr hidden users get stuck and give up.
[04:50] <abattoir> Riddell: any idea when the next set of daily cds would be built?
[04:51] <Riddell> abattoir: tomorrow I'd guess
[04:51] <abattoir> Riddell: ok, thanks
[05:26] <mhb> Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.ca/215317
[05:28] <mhb> fdoving: my Firefox simply ignores the .hidden file and displays them all :o)
[05:28] <mhb> fdoving: can't tell why, though
[05:29] <imbrandon_> probab le becouse thats a feature of gnome and kde , ff uses pure gtk iirc
[05:29] <imbrandon_> it just LOOKS like a gnome dialog
[05:31] <mhb> Riddell: I should probably call it with "--no-incremental"
[05:32] <mhb> Riddell: when I do it enters the gettextDomain for the problematic files
[05:43] <fdoving> mhb: my firefox displays everything too. but on a clean edgy install the directories are hidden.
[05:44] <fdoving> don't know where firefox gets its show/hide hidden files settings from.
[05:48] <marseillai> fdoving: you are talking about directories in /
[05:48] <marseillai> ?
[05:48] <fdoving> mhb: just found out you can rightclick and select 'show hidden files' in the firefox file dialog.
[05:48] <fdoving> marseillai: yes.
[05:49] <marseillai> fdoving: takes a look at /.hidden and it's not firefox but every applications! :)
[05:50] <fdoving> marseillai: i know this. but there should be a option to 'show hidden files' easily. and there is. but it's just not very clear, nor easy to find (for me atleast).
[07:26] <mhb> Riddell: I can't do it by myself :o) but I really really hope you'll fix it somehow ... imagine what would reviewers say about Kubuntu when instead of "Keyboard & Mouse" there was "Users & Groups"
[07:27] <mhb> Riddell: and that's what'll happen to us even though we can't do anything as translators
[07:28] <Riddell> mhb: I /think/ I've got it
[07:28] <Riddell> it'll take a wee while to tidy it up and compile it then I'll need you to test
[07:29] <Riddell> mhb: actually, could you try it as it is with http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kconfigbackend.cpp
[07:29] <mhb> right away
[07:33] <mhb> some weird error
[07:33] <Riddell> what's that?
[07:34] <mhb> Riddell: a load of warnings and then make[4] : *** [libkdecore_la.all_cpp.lo]  Error 1
[07:35] <Riddell> mhb: during compile?
[07:35] <mhb> Riddell: yes
[07:35] <Riddell> mhb: try again with new http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kconfigbackend.cpp
[07:37] <nixternal> everything ok in the world of kubuntu this fine sunday?
[07:38] <Riddell> it will be if mhb says I've fixed this problem
[07:39] <mhb> Riddell: it continues compiling now
[07:40] <Riddell> a good sign
[07:40] <mhb> Riddell: is there already a Riddell fan club? If so I might consider to join later today
[07:40] <Riddell> wait until you've tested if this works yet
[07:47] <nixternal> oh lord, the ubuntu fan clab created Ubuntu thongs, I sure hope that I don't see Riddell thongs ;)
[07:47] <abattoir> lol
[07:47] <mhb> nixternal: great idea
[07:48] <nixternal> ;)
[07:48] <nixternal> i made some killer chili last night, literally
[07:49] <Tm_T> Who died?
[07:49] <abattoir> Scott Tenorman ;)
[07:50] <nixternal> i did
[07:50] <marsport> hi!
[07:50] <Riddell> mhb: how's it going?
[07:51] <marsport> Riddell: i'm trying to upgrade my dapper to edgy and it wants remove kubuntu-desktop don't you want to see what says dist-upgrade?
[07:51] <Riddell> hi marsport
[07:51] <Riddell> marsport: it's a known problem, nothing we can do about it alas
[07:51] <mhb> Riddell: finishing install any minute now
[07:51] <nixternal> i go ahead and remove it, and once the install is complete, i just reinstall it..only way to make it happy right now
[07:51] <nixternal> i did the same with the "apt-get autoremove"
[07:52] <marsport> Riddell: oki so i wait to upgrade or i do it? then i install kubuntu-desktop ?
[07:52] <abattoir> nixternal: F1 by any chance? or IRL ?
[07:52] <nixternal> nascar ;)
[07:52] <nixternal> i watched f1 earlier
[07:53] <nixternal> irl is done for the season
[07:53] <abattoir> heh, just had a discussion about that now :P, enjoy the race
[07:53] <abattoir> oh
[07:53] <marsport> Riddell: should i upgrade or should i wait for a fix?
[07:54] <mhb> :O((
[07:55] <mhb> Riddell: not yet
[07:55] <Riddell> mhb: upgrade
[07:55] <Riddell> mhb: what happened?
[07:55] <mhb> Riddell: nothing ... make install went ok, rebuilt --no-incremental ksycoca and then run systemsettings ... no effect
[07:56] <Riddell> mhb: what's your problem string again?
[07:56] <Riddell> an example you know is wrong but should work
[07:57] <Riddell> Name=Keyboard & Mouse]
[07:57] <Riddell> Name[cs] =Uivatel a skupiny
[07:57] <Riddell> ?
[07:57] <mhb> yes
[07:57] <mhb> that's the most painful one
[07:58] <Riddell> what does this give you?
[07:58] <Riddell> strings  /usr/share/locale-langpack/cs/LC_MESSAGES/desktop_kde-systemsettings.mo | grep Keyboard
[07:59] <mhb> (in the .mo file is Name=Klvesnice & my)
[07:59] <mhb> Name=Keyboard & Mouse
[08:00] <mhb> (the translated string in the .mo file is Name=Klvesnice & my)
[08:00] <Riddell> if you do..
[08:00] <Riddell> touch /usr/share/locale-langpack/cs/LC_MESSAGES/desktop_kde-systemsettings.mo
[08:00] <Riddell> kbuildsycoca 2>&1 | less
[08:00] <Riddell> what does it give as debug output for desktop_kde-systemsettings?
[08:01] <mhb> should I only touch it?
[08:02] <Riddell> sorry
[08:02] <Riddell> touch /usr/share/desktop-directories/kde-settings-keyboardmouse.directory
[08:02] <Riddell> kbuildsycoca 2>&1 | less
[08:04] <mhb> I'll pastebin it, one moment
[08:05] <mhb> Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.ca/215555 should be it
[08:07] <Riddell> mhb: try adding this to the kdecore directory
[08:07] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/klocale.cpp
[08:07] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/klocale.h
[08:08] <marseillai> Riddell: i've not understood. This bug can not be solve so i can upgrade now? or it'll be solve before release and i should wait?
[08:09] <Riddell> marseillai: it won't be resolved, you should do dist-upgrade then apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[08:10] <marseillai> oki thanks riddell
[08:26] <Riddell> mhb: progress?
[08:28] <mhb> Riddell: make installing
[08:31] <mhb> sorry .o) can't speed it up
[08:40] <mhb> Riddell: rebuilding sycoca
[08:41] <mhb> Y A Y!
[08:41] <Riddell> :)
[08:42] <mhb> Riddell: Keyboard& Mouse translated correctly
[08:43] <mhb> Riddell: User Management and Monitor & Display keep untranslated but that's nothing important
[08:43] <mhb> Riddell: other stuff is OK
[08:45] <Riddell> why are they untranslated?
[08:45] <mhb> Riddell: not sure ... I'll check
[08:46] <mhb> Riddell: maybe they aren't translated in the .mo file, I dunno
[08:48] <Riddell> hmm, no desktop_guidance in the langpacks
[08:49] <mhb> desktop-guidancce present, though
[08:49] <mhb> don't tell me it's a typo :o))
[08:50] <Riddell> hmmm
[08:50] <mhb> translated in desktop-guidance
[08:50] <Riddell> yes, wonder how that happened
[08:50] <Riddell> oh well, not much can be done about it now
[08:50] <mhb> Riddell: can't we fix this in the next langpack release?
[08:51] <Riddell> it needs fixed in the kde-guidance package
[08:52] <mhb> Riddell: too late for that?
[08:52] <Riddell> dunno, I might upload and see if it's accepted
[08:52] <Riddell> mhb: actually could you report a bug for that
[08:53] <mhb> Riddell: sure
[08:53] <mhb> Riddell: remember the amarok bug from yesterday?
[08:53] <Riddell> which?
[08:53] <mhb> Riddell: it gets more complicated than I originally thought
[08:54] <mhb> Riddell: bug 67457
[08:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67457 in amarok "amaroK translations in Rosetta - plural forms are broken" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67457
[08:55] <mhb> Riddell: actually it's most probably a duplicate of the bug 46982 as Caroline Ford suggested
[08:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
[08:55] <mhb> Riddell: which means Rosetta refuses to accept a .po definition of the plural form
[08:56] <mhb> Riddell: in just this single package, which is so strange
[09:03] <mhb> Riddell: bug 67614
[09:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67614 in kde-guidance "kde-guidance desktop .mo file can not be loaded" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67614
[09:42] <orkid__> the daily d-i hd-media image for i386 doesn't find the RC i386 desktop iso in its media scan. How come?
[09:44] <Riddell> hd-media?
[09:44] <orkid__> debian installer image for hd-media (you get an iso, boot the image, scand the HD, and it finds the iso and installs from there)
[09:47] <Riddell> never heard of it
[09:47] <Riddell> not sure why it would be looking for the desktop iso though
[09:49] <orkid__> i've done debian net installs this way, maybe i need a different boot image.
[09:58] <mhb> Riddell: I'm going to sleep now ... thanks for everything
[09:59] <Riddell> mhb: thanks for testing
[09:59] <mhb> Riddell: that was really nothing
[10:03] <mhb> Riddell: poke me anytime you need anything done that I am able to do
[10:03] <Riddell> well solid ISO testing from tomorrow until thursday
[10:05] <mhb> Riddell: OK, will do at least until I hit the bandwidth limit.
[10:06] <Riddell> rsync is your friend
[10:07] <mhb> Riddell: sure
[10:08] <mhb> good night all and thank you for the great work!
[10:19] <Lure> Riddell: my first discussion proposal: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/feisty-networking-kubuntu
[10:23] <Riddell> cool
[10:24] <mhb> Lure: you might know it ... has some tray network monitor a la knemo been discussed earlier?
[10:27] <Lure> mhb: yes, knemo was, but was rejected at that tim e(dapper) due to high load - this is now fixed though
[10:28] <Lure> mhb: but there is duplication with knetworkmanager for wireless
[10:28] <mhb> Lure: yes, I agree
[10:29] <mhb> Lure: there are other places where it could be modified to fit more into Kubuntu
[10:29] <Riddell> ok, kdelibs, guidance and katapult all uploaded
[10:29] <Riddell> and with those in I think I'm all happy with Edgy
[10:31] <Lure> Riddell: yep, lot's of pressure for you in last days... - but Edgy with not be edgy at all (at least for Kubuntu)
[10:32] <mhb> Lure: if you could add this application/feature to the spec and discuss it there I'd be glad
[10:32] <Lure> mhb: I will probably start a Wiki page so that we can capture feedback from all interested parties easier
[10:33] <mhb> Lure: great idea
[10:33] <Riddell> Lure: are you able to rename the spec to kubuntu-feisty-networking?  nice to have it namespaced like that
[10:34] <Lure> Riddell: will try
[10:34] <Lure> Riddell: done: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-feisty-networking
[10:39] <fdoving> Riddell: what do you use to edit the kdebase patches? 'cdbs-edit-patch patchname' always wants to add a .patch extension.
[10:40] <fdoving> dpatch-edit-patch wants .dpatch extension.
[10:47] <mhb> Has Kubuntu DVD improving been discussed before?
[10:50] <Lure> fdoving: I use cdbs, but I rename to .diff (which is mostly used in kde)
[10:51] <Lure> mhb: in what direction?
[10:51] <fdoving> Lure: so, when you need to edit an existing patch, you rename to '.patch' again, and use cdbs-edit-patch patchname ?
[10:51] <Lure> fdoving: yes
[10:51] <fdoving> i'll make a cdbs-edit-diff copy of cdbs-edit-patch and s/patch/diff/g in it.
[10:52] <Lure> fdoving: good idea - maybe we should add it to cdbs - I will do my script
[10:52] <Lure> for now
[10:56] <fdoving> Lure: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/cdbs-edit-diff if you want it.
[10:56] <Lure> fdoving: thanks
[10:59] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: You around by chance ?
[11:01] <mhb> Lure: well, now that I think of it, it'd be probably quite hard ... well making DVDs more than just Desktop CD + extra packages ... at least modifying the installer so that you can choose some extra packages from the DVD like localisation, developer tools&header files and so on
[11:02] <jjesse> hello :)
[11:05] <Lure> mhb: right, partiuclarly with live cd
[11:07] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: When you see this, will you try an update with the src repos of SoS and see if the error(s) are fixed for you now please
[11:07] <mhb> Lure: it would still be worth it, though ... sooner or later we'll experience the final shift from cds->dvds
[11:13] <ryanakca> umm... is this normal? "/etc/inittab: No such file or directory"      I have a feeling that's why my VT's don't show up/why I can't access them or change back and forth between X sessions, or between X sessions and VT...
[11:15] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: Can you change between VT's while outside of X ?
[11:15] <ryanakca> Hawkwind: I can't even get out of X...
[11:15] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: I've had this problem in the past and the fix was that in the xorg.conf file the wrong keyboard layout was listed. Instead of en_US it had en_GB or something similar
[11:15] <ryanakca> ctrl-alt-backspace simply returns me to kdm...
[11:16] <ryanakca> kk
[11:16] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: You don't have an /etc/inittab at all ?
[11:16] <ryanakca> and where's my inittab file?
[11:16] <Lure> mhb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFeistyNetworking - please contribute additonal ideas
[11:16] <ryanakca> nope :(
[11:16] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: http://pastebin.ulteo.us/180
[11:17] <fdoving> ryanakca: upstart doesn't need inittab. :)
[11:17] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: That's mine, and you're right, it definitely belongs in /etc
[11:17] <Hawkwind> Ohhhhhh
[11:17] <ryanakca> no?
[11:17] <ryanakca> ah :)
[11:17] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: yeah im here now
[11:18] <Hawkwind> fdoving: What does it use instead ?  Seeings how inittab is where you change your runlevel in most distros
[11:18] <fdoving> ryanakca: my clean install of edgy does not have /etc/inittab
[11:18] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Try an update for me please and see if the src stuff is fixed
[11:18] <fdoving> Hawkwind: runlevels are so 70s :)
[11:18] <gnomefreak> ok let me re enable it
[11:18] <Hawkwind> fdoving: Hah.  I hate a GUI login, I have to boot to CLI or I go insane :)
[11:18] <fdoving> Hawkwind: 'cd /etc/even.d;ls' play :)
[11:19] <fdoving> it's in /etc/even.d/rc-default more precisely.
[11:19] <fdoving> it honours /etc/inittab if it's there.. but it doesn't fail if it's not.
[11:19] <gnomefreak> ok its running ill elt you know
[11:20] <fdoving> Hawkwind: also, you should not change runlevel to disable graphical login. you should remove the kdm links from the init.d dirs. 'update-rc.d -f kdm remove' to get it back, 'update-rc.d kdm defaults'
[11:21] <fdoving> s/init.d/rc?.d/
[11:21] <Hawkwind> fdoving: I actually learned that the other day when you told bLaZeD about it as I didn't know any differently coming from Mandriva :)
[11:22] <marseillai> Riddell: apt-get install kubuntu-desktop doesn't work problem with X dependance. And acpi and acpid configuration failed
[11:23] <fdoving> marseillai: i have a experimental upgrade script you can try. i'm currently testing in chroots.
[11:24] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: its good ty
[11:24] <fdoving> you'll have to wait till this test i'm currently doing is finished. don't want to break your kubuntu.
[11:24] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Awesome.  Many thanks for testing.  I've been fighting it for over an hour
[11:24] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Come to find out, my script was missing a simple . on one line :(
[11:24] <gnomefreak> omg
[11:25] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: use a texteditor with a debugger?
[11:25] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Hah yeah.  Frustrating once you find out it was something so darn simple
[11:25] <ryanakca> Hawkwind: where's the keyboard map for console set again? /etc/?
[11:26] <gnomefreak> not that they work all the great at times but maybe help some for little things
[11:26] <fdoving> marseillai: what is the error you get? can you pastebin it?
[11:26] <fdoving> ryanakca: 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow console-data' iirc.
[11:26] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: Should be in your xorg.conf file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:26] <gnomefreak> ha i fixed minefield :)
[11:26] <ryanakca> Hawkwind: yes, but doesn't it need to be the same for console and xorg? or were you talking about something else?
[11:26] <Hawkwind> ryanakca: Though that might not be the problem you're having.  I always had this problem in Mandriva
[11:27] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: What are you running minefield on ?
[11:27] <fdoving> ryanakca: 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow console-setup' actually.
[11:27] <gnomefreak> edgy ;)
[11:27] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: when i go unstable i make the best of it
[11:28] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Hah, I'd say so
[11:28] <Hawkwind> I'm running minefield on my Windows laptop.  It runs quite well
[11:31] <ryanakca> fdoving: is a bunch of output simmilar to "WARNING: Undefined kernel key code for 236" normal?
[11:32] <fdoving> ryanakca: i haven't experienced that, no.
[11:40] <fdoving> marseillai: still having issues upgrading?
[11:40] <marseillai> fdoving: i've now my X back
[11:40] <marseillai> and finish upgrading
[11:40] <fdoving> ok :)
[11:40] <marseillai> but kubuntu-desktop, acpi and acpid still don't want to configure fdoving
[11:41] <fdoving> marseillai: do you have error messages? can you pastebin them? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org ?
[11:43] <Lure> another spec for uds-mtv: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-feisty-laptop
[11:44] <marsport> fdoving: http://pastebin.ca/215922
[11:46] <marsport> Riddell: upgrading causes a problem with acpid so i can't configure kubuntu-desktop
[11:47] <Riddell> apt-get -f install
[11:47] <Riddell> ?
[11:47] <fdoving> marsport: can you try to run '/var/lib/dpkg/info/acpid.postinst' what does it say?
[11:48] <marsport> Riddell: nothing
[11:48] <fdoving> marsport: nevermind, don't need to do that. it's the init script that fails. somehow.
[11:49] <marsport> fdoving: i gave you in pv the result of /var/lib/dpkg/info/acpid.postinst
[11:50] <fdoving> marsport: 'apt-get --purge remove acpid;apt-get install kubuntu-desktop'
[11:51] <marsport> works fine fdoving
[11:51] <marsport> fdoving: thanks a lot
[11:51] <fdoving> no problem :)
[11:52] <marsport> fdoving: to be able to finish my upgrade i've have to install xorg, and every python packages
[11:52] <fdoving> marsport: xserver-xorg ?
[11:52] <fdoving> i'm aware of the python packages.
[11:52] <fdoving> and upgrading from dapper to edgy is not a trival task.
[11:53] <fdoving> I'm working on a script to do it (hopefully) less painfull.
[11:53] <marsport> fdoving: xserver-xorg and xorg
[11:53] <fdoving> ok, thanks.
[11:54] <marsport> fdoving: it seems that the problem was with the names of driver wich changes
[11:54] <fdoving> I have focused on getting kubuntu-desktop installing cleanly so far.
[11:54] <marsport> so now! time to sleep! have 5 hours to sleep
[11:54] <fdoving> yeah.. me too.. soon. :)
[12:03] <gnomefreak> does anyone know since kdevelop3-data was pulled from repos that kdevelop-data will work with kdevelop3?


[00:56] <SleepyJeremy> hello
[01:02] <geofft> you're a little late, if you were intending to show up for one of the sessions :)
[01:04] <SleepyJeremy> understood
[01:04] <SleepyJeremy> I was under a firewall when the session I was interested was on
[01:04] <SleepyJeremy> a.k.a. @work
[01:04] <SleepyJeremy> :)
[01:05] <SleepyJeremy> anybody on from the "Next steps for the click-package prototype for simplified app package installation" session? Or who knows about the app packaging model being proposed for ubuntu touch/phone?
[01:07] <geofft> You should be able to watch the video recording, from the summit page
[01:07] <geofft> and see the Etherpad notes.
[01:07] <geofft> #ubuntu-devel is probably a better channel to find folks
[01:08] <SleepyJeremy> ah ok
[01:09] <SleepyJeremy> I tried that before, kept being pushed into #ubuntu-touch which nobody is ever watching
[13:54] <zyga> hi
[13:55] <zyga> brendand: so you're leading this one as well>?
[13:55] <roadmr> hey!
[13:55] <brendand> zyga, indeed
[13:56] <brendand> seems this is starting in 3 mins
[13:57] <brendand> brb
[13:57] <zyga> brendand: ok, paste the hangout link when ready
[13:57] <roadmr> do we know who'll be helping us with the hangout and stuff?
[13:57] <bdmurray> I will
[13:57] <zyga-uds> bdmurray:thanks
[13:58] <roadmr> bdmurray: thanks! good morning!
[13:59] <spineau> Could someone paste the hangout url again?
[13:59] <spineau> please
[13:59] <brendand> bdmurray, paste the link here
[13:59] <roadmr> spineau: I don't think we have it yet
[14:00] <bdmurray> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da2?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:00] <spineau> roadmr: ok, I'm not late then :)
[14:09] <bladernr`> whats the link to the BP?
[14:10] <roadmr> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/certify-planning/+spec/foundations-1305-checkbox-release-process
[14:10] <bladernr`> thanks
[14:20] <jeffreyc> yes, CE QA is really happy with current process
[14:20] <bladernr`> can you join the hangout jeffreyc
[14:20] <bladernr`> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da2?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:43] <ara> hello
[14:44] <roadmr> ara: hi!
[14:44] <roadmr> ara: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da2
[14:45] <ara> roadmr, I will stay on IRC, for the 10 minutes that lasts
[14:45] <ara> but thanks :)
[14:45] <roadmr> ara: ok :)
[14:51] <ara> zyga, a schedule
[14:51] <ara> zyga, and when
[14:56] <spideyman> can I vote that we only put changes/bug fix note about checkbox core into the changelog? Remove the cruft of job and individual script updates?
[14:57] <ara> spideyman, that would never be accepted in Ubuntu
[14:58] <spideyman> meh...then we probably need to decouple them from checkbox.
[14:58] <ara> spideyman, yes, that I agree :)
[14:59] <cjwatson> You can still summarise changes in Ubuntu though; they don't have to be commit-level or anything
[15:00] <cjwatson> Or you could treat it as an upstream tarball, where we frequently have changes only in upstream changelogs/NEWS files or whatever and don't repeat them in debian/changelog
[15:00] <cjwatson> Various possibilities
[15:01] <roadmr> cjwatson: thanks!
[15:01] <zyga-uds> indeed, thanks
[15:02] <zyga> ara: what did you mean by 'a schedule and when'?
[15:02] <roadmr> ara: do you know how to go about scheduling another session for tomorrow?
[15:02] <cjwatson> starting up hangout now
[15:02] <cjwatson> roadmr: ask a suitable track lead
[15:02] <cjwatson> (may or may not be space)
[15:02] <roadmr> cjwatson: oh ok thanks :)
[15:03] <Riddell> afternoon
[15:03] <brendand> running sessions is tiring :)
[15:04] <cjwatson> Kubuntu/UEFI/LTS hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6f16a08fd55e3e6db336ef84515052124bef0e8f?authuser=1&hl=en-GB
[15:04] <ara> zyga, I meant scheduling the work to be done
[15:04] <zyga> ara: scheduling the packaging changes? ok
[15:05] <cjwatson> (should I expect Kubuntu folks in the hangout?   I can provide a pretty picture with a backdrop, but can't speak out loud.
[15:08] <xnox> =)
[15:08] <xnox> (unless I move elsewhere)
[15:08] <xnox> I'd rather chat on irc.
[15:09] <apw> cjwatson, i can see it
[15:09] <xnox> \o/
[15:09] <Riddell> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/05/09/breakouts-uefi
[15:10] <xnox> cjwatson: Riddell: isn't this more about SB, rather than just UEFI.
[15:10] <skellat> Any of you have working cameras?
[15:10] <cjwatson> I have mine turned off
[15:11] <cjwatson> I mean if you *really* want to see my ugly mug :P
[15:12] <Riddell> mine doesn't seem to work today
[15:12] <Riddell> xnox: about SB?
[15:13] <bubbly193> no camera here
[15:13] <bubbly193> unless it decides to work
[15:14] <xnox> well, reading the blog post, it is a bit confusing as to what happened there. i only ever always had a single efi partition =/
[15:14] <apw> b 43
[15:15] <cjwatson> Bug 1167622
[15:15] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167622
[15:15] <cjwatson> That bug seems to be the root cause of the Kubuntu failure here
[15:15] <cjwatson> I'm not sure why it didn't break Ubuntu as well
[15:15] <cjwatson> Could be related to Kubuntu not using a signed kernel, I suppose, which would mean it would be booted slightly differently
[15:16] <apw> cjwatson, we would indeed boot rather differently if we are not using a signed kernel
[15:17] <apw> bug 1178294
[15:17] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1178294 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install fails with Kubuntu 13.04 on UEFI system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178294
[15:18] <cjwatson> apw: can you comment on 1167622?  would that cause the precise symptom in 1178294?
[15:18] <cjwatson> the failure there seems to be "bricks system" rather than "causes set_variable to fail"
[15:18] <apw> May 9 16:52:54 kubuntu ubiquity: Can't access efivars filesystem at /sys/firmware/efi/efivars, aborting
[15:19] <apw> that implies we did not have any access to the efivars at all, perhaps as a result of the mode
[15:19] <apw> ie not being booted into via the efi entry point
[15:20] <apw> on the '50% full' issue for nvram there have been some re-re-re-fixing in the handling of sizes
[15:22] <cking> bug 1167622 gets an efi "EFI_OUT_OF_RESOURCES" error, so it looks like there is not enough free EFI NVRAM free
[15:22] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167622
[15:23] <apw> cking, that might be one of those corner cases the later kernels have worked round, where the firmware lies in some of the size responses
[15:23] <cking> yep, or just lame firmware that can't be worked around, hard to tell
[15:23] <apw> indeed
[15:28] <cjwatson> damn, lost my connection
[15:28]  * cjwatson attempts to reconnect but isn't hopeful
[15:29]  * cking notes any EFI status<PHONE_NUMBER>000009 means there isn't enough variable space, but we are at the mercy of the EFI run time services so who knows why it really failed
[15:29] <apw> cjwatson, i think kernel concurs with your position, that we should get kubuntu using the signed kerenl and then review the remaining issues, the rest ought to be common to ubuntu as well
[15:29] <apw> Riddell, is it you who has the list of bugs found during the install, those should be in the pad
[15:31] <xnox> cjwatson: you did well =)
[15:31] <stgraber> cjwatson: looks good, same URL
[15:31] <Riddell> apw: I filed bug 1178294 for not working on my uefi/sb machine, is that what you mean?
[15:31] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1178294 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install fails with Kubuntu 13.04 on UEFI system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178294
[15:31]  * cjwatson tries to find apachelogger's bug
[15:33] <cjwatson> he said on 2013-05-02 that he was going to file one
[15:33] <apw> bug 1167622
[15:33] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167622
[15:36] <cjwatson> bug 1171099 - but on reflection it appears unrelated
[15:36] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1171099 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu Saucy) "kubuntu - plymouth not shown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171099 - Assigned to Harald Sitter (apachelogger)
[15:36] <cjwatson> sorry for derailing, I was triggering mentally on "grub" and "kubuntu" :)
[15:38] <cjwatson> apw,cking: would one of you be a sensible kernel contact if there are still outstanding bugs?
[15:38] <apw> cjwatson, yeap poke me
[15:38] <cjwatson> definitely looks like the first step is "get saucy into gear and try it"
[15:38] <cjwatson> ok
[15:39] <apw> yep concur, i should have kit to test it with as well, at least a bit
[15:39] <cking> apw, as long as you don't brick it
[15:40] <apw> cking, i am sure i will
[15:41] <apw> cjwatson, there was a bug somewhere with all the changes connected to it i think, at least all the packages
[15:42] <cjwatson> Yeah, I remember that, though I fear it was incomplete
[15:42] <cjwatson> I'll hunt it down
[15:45] <cjwatson> Riddell: is there a blueprint for this, btw?  just asking 'cos if so it would decrease the chance of work items getting lost
[15:46] <Riddell> cjwatson: nope, shall I make one?
[15:46] <cjwatson> if you would that'd be great
[15:52] <Riddell> cjwatson: voila https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-kubuntu
[15:53] <cjwatson> ta
[15:55] <cjwatson> done the seed bits for saucy at least - precise will take more work
[15:55] <cjwatson> and probably ought to make sure first that it works in saucy, anyway
[16:02] <lool> hey
[16:03]  * pitti waves
[16:03]  * ogasawara waves
[16:03] <ogasawara> not sure if bdmurray or cjwatson is starting up our session
[16:04] <cjwatson> ogasawara: bdmurray
[16:04] <bdmurray> ogasawara: I should be just a moment
[16:04] <ogasawara> ack, thanks
[16:04] <cjwatson> we had a brief mix-up
[16:05] <ogasawara> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/d9954311986ea36d3861625cd022d9dc8db2c213?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:05] <ogasawara> lool, mfisch, sforshee ^^
[16:06] <ogasawara> pitti: ^^ if you feel inclined
[16:07] <apw> ogasawara, are we live yet ?
[16:07] <ogra_> doesnt look like
[16:07] <ogasawara> just starting
[16:08] <apw> not seeing it yet
[16:09]  * ogra_ sees ...
[16:10] <ppisati> video stutters here...
[16:10] <ogra_> it didnt here until you said that !
[16:10] <ppisati> LOL :)
[16:11] <ogra_> :)
[16:12] <sforshee> http://goo.gl/KMlMv
[16:12] <mfisch> system power policy doc: http://goo.gl/KMlMv
[16:15] <rickspencer3> I like the mental model that it's a constant battle between the power manager trying to reduce power and apps trying to keep it
[16:16] <rickspencer3> so app authors have to do work to fight against the power manager
[16:16] <mfisch> right, via curated APIs
[16:16] <ogra_> yeah the api should help them
[16:18] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:18] <rickspencer3> app authors have to wage battle against the power manager, but only through the api
[16:18] <rickspencer3> that means the power manager will have the deck stacked in its gavor
[16:18] <ogra_> tvyou are
[16:18] <rickspencer3> favor*
[16:20] <achiang> maybe google i/o is melting the internet now
[16:20] <mfisch> seth's video always freezes ;)
[16:21] <brendand> QUESTION: at what level will these inhibitors be 'switched on' as it were, such that all the responsibility doesn't lie with each individual app?
[16:21] <pitti> sforshee: yeah, I think I have like a 10 second lag, sorry
[16:21] <ogra_> funny conversation
[16:21] <brendand> e.g. why have each app that could play music switch it on, when the audio subsystem (pulse?) will know this anyway?
[16:22] <ogra_> brendand, well, tha ypi will switchi it on
[16:22] <ogra_> *the api
[16:22] <achiang> brendand: the responsibility is *below* the app level
[16:22] <achiang> brendand: the API backend will manage this on behalf of the apps
[16:22] <ogra_> i.e. your app plays music ... the api knows that and tells pulse about it
[16:22] <ogra_> and pulse inhibits
[16:22] <mfisch> brendand: the app calls playBackgroundMusic() and then the audio service/pulse tells power manager "dont suspend"
[16:23] <brendand> it seems that it should be inhibited at the lowest level possible that makes sense
[16:24] <mfisch> brendand: what do you mean?
[16:24] <achiang> brendand: the whole point of hiding it behind the API is precisely to inhibit at the level that makes sense
[16:24] <ogra_> pitti, it think we also want to live that stuff on a system level, not a session one ... logind could be our channel for conversation i guess though
[16:26] <pitti> ogra_: yes, I agree; you can query them at a system level, but they are still tied to a particular session/seat
[16:26] <pitti> (powerd wouldn't need to care about which particular session, of course)
[16:26] <ogra_> right
[16:26] <brendand> mfisch, i guess my question is answered. that was just a general observation
[16:27] <mfisch> ogra_: thats what we envisioned, logind is out path to match sessions and seats
[16:27] <ogra_> yeah
[16:27] <mfisch> sessions may request a display state and we need to map that to a physical display (seat) which in turn is managed by a system compositor
[16:27] <ogra_> did you guys look into teh existing powerd already
[16:27] <ogra_> ?
[16:28] <mfisch> ogra_: yes, we are currently coding some enhancements onto it to prove out the concepts
[16:28] <ogra_> awesome :)
[16:28] <brendand> question the second: how fine grained can the hardware control be? can it switch e.g. everything off but the wifi chip, or even vice versa?
[16:28] <ogra_> the kernel can ...
[16:28] <mfisch> brendand: we plan that PM only manages screen power and system power (suspend), but not, for example, low power wifi states
[16:28] <ogra_> so the question is how much use do we make of it
[16:29] <mfisch> if the wifi chip supports some low power mode, for example, the wifi stack deals with that
[16:29] <ogra_> (over time)
[16:29] <brendand> mfisch, that's true
[16:29] <cking> the devil is in the unexpected detail, so we need to start somewhere
[16:29] <mfisch> agreed
[16:30] <mfisch> just from starting to implement some stuff I've run into several questions about how the API would work
[16:30] <ogra_> he is currently doing it himself
[16:30] <ogra_> since he wrote the initial version
[16:31] <apw> ogasawara, damn straight
[16:31] <ogra_> sforshee, about time !
[16:32] <ogra_> kernels are boring ... userspace has all the excitiment
[16:32] <mfisch> Chicken: you've got me until friday ;)
[16:33] <brendand> mfisch, actually what i meant was that say the only thing that is happening on the system is a file download. what is the most efficient power state that can be reached?
[16:33] <sforshee> ogra_, I like kernels ;-)
[16:33] <ogra_> :)
[16:34] <mfisch> brendand: it depends on the system, realistically probably screen off but not suspended, however, if you had a system where you could download a file without the system CPU, then it would work like this
[16:34] <mfisch> (these are made-up API calls), app calls downloadBackgroundFile()
[16:34] <pitti> aren't ARM processors more flexible in that regard?
[16:34] <mfisch> then download manager decides whether the system should suspend or not
[16:34] <ogra_> a lot
[16:34] <mfisch> right
[16:34] <pitti> i. e. that they already shut down units which aren't necessary for a particular task?
[16:35] <ogra_> depends
[16:35] <sforshee> pitti, yes to some degree
[16:35] <lool> it's a whole system really
[16:35] <lool> on a single chip
[16:35]  * pitti really liked the OLPC which could display a static image with shutting down the CPU and GPU :)
[16:35] <ogra_> i.e. if the kernel (and HW) supports the interactive governor you can do very intresting things on that level
[16:35] <rfowler> QUESTION: when suspending the device via power button you should still be able to access a device via adb correct?
[16:35] <ogra_> very finegrained too
[16:36] <rfowler> because the nexus 10 doesn't
[16:36] <mfisch> rfowler: I thought on Android there's a wakelock held when you're using adb that prevents suspend
[16:36] <pitti> ogra_: can you run an ARM CPU at hilariously slow speeds? like 500 kHz or so?
[16:36] <sforshee> rfowler, yes, in that case the system should turn off the screen but not suspend
[16:36] <sforshee> rfowler, we don't have all the infrastructure in place yet ;-)
[16:36] <ogra_> pitti, heh, never tried below 200MHz
[16:36] <ogra_> pitti, i suppose it might work though
[16:37] <sforshee> mfisch, the nexus 10 kernel doesn
[16:37] <sforshee> doesn't have the same wakelock infrastructure as past android devices
[16:37] <mfisch> ah the n4 seemed to
[16:37] <mfisch> I dont have a n10
[16:37] <sforshee> n4 still uses the old android wakelock model
[16:37] <rfowler> thanks
[18:01]  * cjwatson gets back to the hangout creation dance
[18:02] <cjwatson> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB
[18:05] <cjwatson> anyone else joining the hangout?  It's rather quieter than I expected :)
[18:05] <cjwatson> rickspencer3: ^-
[18:05] <cjohnston> is it just you cjwatson ? ;-)
[18:06] <cjwatson> And stgraber
[18:06] <rickspencer3> hi cjwatson I'd be happy to join
[18:06] <rickspencer3> cjwatson, I don't know that I can contribute much technical, thouhg
[18:07] <cjwatson> Fair enough, thanks
[18:07] <cjwatson> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB
[18:09] <pumpichank> sorry, could someone please repost the hangout url?
[18:09] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB
[18:09] <pumpichank> thanks
[18:14] <xnox> stgraber++
[18:14] <pumpichank> let's call it "sid" <wink>
[18:16] <apw> cjwatson, would we be able to upload to this new name, i am assuming not
[18:17] <stgraber> apw: no
[18:17] <stgraber> well, that's what Rick brought up, but the current plan is a simple symlink at the archive level
[18:17] <stgraber> LP wouldn't be aware of that
[18:19]  * xnox ideally wishes _all_ uploads to be phased in the devel release =)
[18:24] <balloons> the current qa community folks would be happy to run this :-)
[18:25] <cjwatson> apw: Rick brought it up and I hadn't thought about it; it's easy enough to do
[18:26] <cjwatson> stgraber: I was planning to have LP create the symlink, though (in the publisher)
[18:26] <cjwatson> pumpichank: iron rule: no name clashes with Debian :)
[18:26] <cjohnston> In the session before lunch we discussed how to display key performance indicators on the QA Dashboard that could be  helpful of people trying to decide to update
[18:27] <xnox> the bit that is missing, is the pop-up: 'wanna see the next ubuntu's wallpaper?' =)))))
[18:27] <xnox> cjohnston: KPI is an indicator, using a devel release should be more playful & impulsive. I think. If one looks at stability indicators, precise will always win.
[18:28] <chiluk`> I think the other fear is fear of hardware being killed by the development version...
[18:28] <cjohnston> xnox: sure, however if people are asking on IRC if they should update, that would give them something to look at
[18:29] <balloons> if they are asking to update or not, odds are they aren't good candidates :-)
[18:30] <xnox> I am somewhere between cjohnston & balloons, closer to balloons stance I think =)
[18:31] <cjohnston> I haven't switched yet, but I've thought about it.. partially due to time... but it would still be nice to see if today is looking ok before doing it
[18:31] <balloons> it is fair to ask/check if something is totally borked before upgrading.. but in general, your running the devel release for a specific reason. We hope your running it to help ubuntu itself out by testing, hacking, developing, whatever
[18:31] <cjohnston> that's what I'm getting at
[18:32] <balloons> cjohnston, however, I've never done such a thing.. If an upgrade fails, I file a bug
[18:32] <balloons> wait and try again ;-)
[18:33] <cjohnston> If you can look and see that its going to break and there is already a bug, why try
[18:34] <chiluk`> can't we get statistics like that by monitoring accesses to the development repos?
[18:34] <balloons> cjohnston, if there was a known issue, I would be more inclined to try :-)
[18:35] <balloons> it's about setting expectations for the release. I don't think anything has to really changed on that front. If your running -devel release things may break
[18:35] <balloons> it's all part of the experience, and to the extent you have an issue, report it, workaround it and move on
[18:37] <pumpichank> omgomega
[18:37]  * xnox .o0(now we just need a 7 grade scale of neo-users)
[18:38] <lool> "dev"
[18:38] <chiluk`> tip++
[18:39] <balloons> you could still call it rolling :-)
[18:39] <xnox> where is the marketing department when you need them? =))))
[18:39] <pumpichank> good thing there's no possibility of bikeshedding the name
[18:39] <pumpichank> rickroll
[18:39] <xnox> "fresh"?
[18:40] <xnox> let's call it "tumble weed".
[18:40] <balloons> preview?
[18:40] <xnox> warty?
[18:40] <TheMuso> lol
[18:40] <cjohnston> nonameyet
[18:40] <xnox> adjective and an animal? to put into lsb-release os / etc?
[18:41] <balloons> +1 nonamyet
[18:41] <chiluk`> rolling does already have a bunch of publicity out there.
[18:42] <cjohnston> nonameyet because Mark hasn't picked an animal
[18:42] <cjohnston> heh
[18:42] <plars> voyager
[18:42] <pumpichank> rolling is not bad
[18:43] <balloons> honestly rolling probably communicates things simply, without requiring more explanation
[18:43]  * apw suggests bikeshed
[18:43] <lool> +1
[18:43] <cjwatson> phk </obscure>
[18:44] <apw> lool, no no no, he wants one we cannot have without blowing LP up
[18:44] <lool> :-)
[18:44] <chiluk`> just blog about it
[18:44] <lool> plus it's probably (tm) google
[18:51] <chiluk`> that would be help those who are afraid to move early in the development release as well.
[18:53] <Laney> anything else here?
[18:53] <rickspencer3> thanks cjwatson
[18:53] <rickspencer3> I <3 "rolling" ;)
[18:53] <cjwatson> thanks everyone
[18:54] <chiluk`> rolling roadrunner  ...... acme flashbacks
[18:54] <cjwatson> rickspencer3: I'll drop this into the blueprint whiteboard/WIs, so maybe just edit there when I'm done rather than fighting with etherpad
[18:54] <balloons> rick rolling rash roadrunner
[18:54] <balloons> release
[18:54] <balloons> :-p
[18:54] <apw> rickspencer3, it hought you loved the rolling release, hiding it seems odd
[18:56] <cjwatson> ah, "export as plain text" from the pad => less unpleasant way to get it into blueprints
[18:56] <cjwatson> rickspencer3: all in the bp now
[18:56] <rickspencer3> cjwatson, ok, I'll pop my notes in there then
[19:01] <knome> hello
[19:02] <knome> who's running the hangout?
[19:02] <bdmurray> I am
[19:03] <knome> i suppose i'd like to join that one :)
[19:03] <knome> defining want in the "should" sense ;9
[19:04] <knome> elfy, o/
[19:04] <bdmurray> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ef55fe3b04e56166a89aa6c2a748602a149da165?authuser=0&hl=en
[19:04] <elfy> knome: yep - I'm here
[19:04] <elfy> more or less
[19:05] <knome> :)
[19:05] <knome> oodie
[19:05] <knome> +g too (not g+)
[19:08] <xnox> is the feed live?
[19:08] <elfy> it's very quiet :p
[19:08] <elfy> xnox: not that I can see
[19:08] <apw> xnox, not here
[19:08] <bdmurray> just started it
[19:09] <plars> hear no evil, see no evil... not live yet
[19:09] <apw> bdmurray, there is a heck of a lag from the originators timezone to ones a ways away
[19:09] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[19:09] <plars> ah, there it is
[19:09] <bdmurray> apw: are you suggesting I move?
[19:09] <balloons> ahh video :-)
[19:10] <apw> bdmurray, it is the obvious solution :)
[19:11] <xnox> cjwatson: there are bits on the pad to discuss =)
[19:12] <cjwatson> those were things I said
[19:13] <balloons> lol.. yes, milestones seem to be pretty good drivers for flavors
[19:13] <cjwatson> balloons: what was your sense of testing of earlier milestones?
[19:14] <xnox> cjwatson: i see =) lag.
[19:15] <balloons> in comparison to ubuntu, they were pretty tame. However, I do echo stgraber here. Flavors like kubuntu and lubuntu got there work done as part of having milestones; they seemed to like having that 'hard date' in which work needed to be complete
[19:15]  * elfy is listening - I'd agree with what knome has said
[19:22] <xnox> in-dash payments.
[19:22] <xnox> was the other one, i think.
[19:27] <balloons> a2 and a3 being so close meant most flavors looking at it weren't going to do one of them :-)
[19:28] <cjwatson> yeah, I think that was among the reasons we deleted a3 from raring
[19:28]  * cjwatson harks back to the days of 7 alphas
[19:28] <knome> the proposed changes sound fine to me
[19:29] <knome> not me!
[19:29] <knome> way to go, mute all the community people >;)
[19:29] <balloons> +1 on making milestones ~= monthly cadence
[19:29] <cjwatson> :-P
[19:29] <cjwatson> unmute yourselves if you want to talk :)
[19:29] <knome> nah
[19:29]  * cjwatson is muted too
[19:30] <balloons> lol.. good practice so background noise of your cat doesn't pop in :-)
[19:30] <knome> oh, one can't see who's muted or not. interesting
[19:30] <knome> cat pooping in?
[19:30] <knome> i was told i type really loudly
[19:31] <balloons> will ff be moved back again?
[19:31] <balloons> I know there was still some drama even with it moved so far back into the cycle
[19:32] <cjwatson> you're the first person who's expressed a desire to move it back :)
[19:32] <cjwatson> want to expand?  as stgraber was saying, for once it seems to have been sort of successful
[19:33] <cjwatson> in that we didn't actually have too many major disruptive changes after FF
[19:33] <knome> depends on the release team i suppose
[19:33] <balloons> cjwatson, I think I confused everyone.. aka.. it's week 17, will it be week 20 in saucy like raring or no?
[19:34] <balloons> I speaking of feature freeze ^^
[19:34] <cjwatson> right, yeah, like we said there are a bunch of changes we made in raring that don't seem to have been mirrored into saucy
[19:34] <balloons> ok.. right, excellent
[19:34] <cjwatson> basically because there was an incredibly unwise decision several releases ago to create a bunch of release schedules in advance
[19:34] <cjwatson> so now we have to keep remembering to mirror changes ...
[19:35] <cjwatson> Adam took an action to push things over
[19:35] <balloons> lol.. you try and make less work for yourself, and boom
[19:36] <elfy> tring to remember last time that worked for me
[19:39] <balloons> mm.. adam, that's the point of cadence testing
[19:43] <balloons> fyi, if your curious of stats for raring; http://<IP_ADDRESS>/ scroll down to the "Raring Image Testers" and "Raring Image Results"
[19:43] <balloons> you can see the spikes are the milestones
[19:44] <balloons> the later milestones had much more traction than the early milestones
[19:48] <knome> adam should use xfce ;)
[19:48] <balloons> use google dns :-p
[19:51] <knome> can you also mail the flavor devel lists?


[01:24] <poncha|work> hi. can anyone please help figuring out why i am banned from #ubuntu-ru ?
[01:26] <nalioth> poncha|work: you want /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-ru list
[01:29] <poncha|work> got it ;) thanks. will try to contact these people
[01:30] <poncha|work> nalioth, btw you have access ;)
[01:30] <poncha|work> they have *@freenode/staff/* in access list
[01:31] <nalioth> poncha|work: ok
[01:35] <poncha|work> apart from freenode staff members and bazhang who has special access in there, none of the people having access are even online
[01:35] <poncha|work> need to try in more conventional hours for russia probably ;)
[01:35] <nalioth> poncha|work: did you /whois each person?
[01:36] <nalioth> poncha|work: the access list doesn't show user activity, just channel activity involving changes to the list
[01:37] <poncha|work> yep
[01:37] <poncha|work> got no such nick on all but bazhang
[01:38] <poncha|work> oh, actually i found [green] is online too, but he is probably asleep too cause i've  tried to reach him on one of his other channels and no answer ;\0
[01:42] <poncha|work> hm. if i send a memo to all ops of #ubuntu-ru ... and *@staff is listed there - all staff will get this memo ??? :S
[01:42] <poncha|work> (i mean /memoserv sendops)
[01:44] <LjL> oof, i didn't even know of sendops.
[01:51] <poncha|work> me neither, just read memoserv help ;)
[18:32] <ubot2> In #ubuntu-se, Kim^J said: !syn is <reply>ack
[18:41] <Nafallo> he is wrong! it's syn/ack surely!
[19:50] <tsimpson> nalioth: if you're about "<jml> could ubot3` please leave the #launchpad-dev channel?"
[19:50] <tsimpson> asked 3 hours ago in -bots...
[19:51] <jml> hello
[19:52] <jml> can the owner of ubot3` please remove it from #launchpad-dev? It gets into bug quoting matches with mup.
[19:52] <nalioth> patience, please
[19:52] <jml> nalioth, thanks :)


[02:40] <dgroos> I've got a question, simple I hope, about using ldap with fat clients.
[02:41] <dgroos> If I make my ltsp server an ldap client to my school districts active directory server...
[02:42] <dgroos> …when a student logs on for the first time to one of my clients (via AD authentication) will it create a home folder for this new user?
[02:43] <dgroos> I'm hoping this because that way I won't have to add new students to the class room ltsp servers.  Since they will have already been added to the school district's AD servers.
[03:16] <dgroos> ok
[03:17] <dgroos> night.
[13:04] <dgroos> Good Morning!
[17:25] <shnatsel> hi everyone
[17:26] <shnatsel> It's just me dreaming or Edubuntu has some kind of system that allows installing only those OS components which the user chooses in ubiquity?
[17:34] <alkisg> shnatsel: you mean something different than the package manager, e.g. synaptic, software center etc?
[17:37] <shnatsel> alkisg: quoting http://edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release : Edubuntu 11.04 ships with a classic Ubuntu desktop by default. Unity is available in both its 2D and 3D versions for these who want to test this new user interface as an option in the installer.
[17:37] <shnatsel> alkisg: quoting http://edubuntu.org/news/11.04-release : Edubuntu 11.04 ships with a classic Ubuntu desktop by default. Unity is available in both its 2D and 3D versions for these who want to test this new user interface as an option in the installer.
[17:38] <shnatsel> sorry dupe
[17:58] <stgraber> shnatsel: yep, I implemented a basic package manager in the graphical installer
[17:58] <alkisg> shnatsel: the desktop environment is a package, yes
[17:58] <stgraber> so you can easily opt-out of some packages and choose to switch between unity and regular gnome
[17:58] <stgraber> LTSP is also an installer option
[17:58] <shnatsel> Awesome!
[17:59] <shnatsel> Are there any docs on configuring this? Ubuntu Studio seems to need this system too.
[18:01] <stgraber> it's nothing too fancy, just an installer component they'd need to ship and change the first few lines so that it shows the right package list
[18:01] <stgraber> might need to split the packages into more meta packages if not already done too and make sure they are Recommends instead of Depends so removing one doesn't remove them all
[18:04] <shnatsel> well, I always follow those rules in elementary, not sure about ubuntu studio guys... but they seem to have enough different metapackages for that.
[18:05] <shnatsel> so, where can I get one and what exactly to change? (btw; why don't you migrate this to dconf or at least config files? changing source code doesn't make sense...)
[18:10] <stgraber> well, changing the source code is usually fine as it's a derivative specifc installer component that's shipped by edubuntu-live, having a configuration file or dconf for that would just make it weird
[18:10] <stgraber> as ubiquity currently doesn't have any configuration
[18:10] <stgraber> and can't use dconf as it can be run in standalone mode
[18:11] <stgraber> the file in question is edubuntu-packages.py in the edubuntu-live package
[18:11] <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/680779/ is the current content
[18:12] <stgraber> if more official derivatives start using it, I'd probably just move it to ubiquity itself (as I've got commit rights there too)
[18:23] <shnatsel> stgraber: so, to use it in ubuntu studio, the devs will have to customize these lines:
[18:23] <shnatsel>         src_pkg = "edubuntu-meta"
[18:23] <shnatsel>         meta_blacklist = ['edubuntu-server','edubuntu-desktop-kde']
[18:23] <shnatsel>         package_blacklist = ['unity-2d']
[18:23] <shnatsel>         relation_blacklist = ['Depends']
[18:23] <shnatsel> right?
[18:24] <stgraber> yep
[18:24] <shnatsel> ehhh... so, what is what? o_O
[18:24] <stgraber> and also the BEFORE and AFTER flags, quite possibly the translation strings too and import the po template into their package (so they get the installer translated)
[18:31] <shnatsel> so, how do I add or remove packages to/from the list? What do src_pkg, meta_blacklist, package_blacklist and relation_blacklist mean?
[18:33] <stgraber> it's taking src_pkg, looking at the binary packages built from it
[18:34] <stgraber> ignoring these that are in meta_blacklist
[18:34] <stgraber> and then looking for the Depends of each of the remaining meta packages, hiding anything that's listed in package_blacklist
[18:35] <stgraber> and also hiding any package that's a Depend as removing them would remove the whole meta package
[18:56] <shnatsel> stgraber: thanks a lot! I'll try to make a doc out of this convo, I'll drop you a link if I do


[00:02] <sharky> what video chip,drivers,cables are you using?
[00:04] <charlie-tca> rustx_: actually, Ubuntu should support dual monitors, Xubuntu does not, though
[00:04] <charlie-tca> The developers of Xfce do not consider that a priority
[01:56] <raevol> ok, i am a bit frustrated here
[01:56] <raevol> i run VLC and chromium at the same time
[01:56] <raevol> and something is happening that's causing VLC to lose sound
[01:56] <raevol> that's all i know for sure
[01:56] <raevol> what i am assuming is that something is running in chromium that is borking pulse audio, and vlc is losing access to it
[01:56] <raevol> possibly flas
[01:56] <raevol> flash*
[01:57] <raevol> could anyone help me trouble shoot this? it's unnerving
[01:58] <scott--> which version of vlc?
[01:58] <raevol> 1.1.4
[01:58] <scott--> gonna see if I can replicate your error
[01:58] <raevol> ok
[01:58] <raevol> this happened to me with gmail and facebook opening in different tabs
[01:59] <raevol> and i am only guess it's flash causing it, i recently stopped using adblock because of its need for escalated permission
[02:16] <scott--> heyo, I've tried several combos with no audio failure
[02:16] <raevol> hmm
[02:17] <raevol> it happens to me pretty randomly, that's why it's so aggrivating
[06:20] <TheSarge> Hello
[10:17] <StockHunter> who wants to help a total n00b? i changed my resolution to a setting thats too high for my laptop and now can't see anything when i log in. could someone help me through resetting it to default in term?
[10:26] <moetunes> StockHunter:  did you chande the resolution in an xorg.conf file?
[10:26] <moetunes> change*
[10:26] <StockHunter> no it was through xcfe GUI
[10:27] <moetunes> I don't know if that writes to xorg.conf - does   ls /etc/X11   show an xorg.conf?
[10:28] <StockHunter> no suck file of directory
[10:28] <StockHunter> such*
[10:28] <StockHunter> or*
[10:29] <moetunes> does   ls /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d   show much??
[10:29] <StockHunter> "No such file or directory"
[10:30] <StockHunter> er, "cannot access /etc/x11/xorg/conf.d: No such file or directory"
[10:30] <moetunes> spelt it wrog
[10:30] <moetunes> *wrong
[10:30] <moetunes>  ls /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
[10:30] <moetunes> might be easier to grep the log
[10:31] <StockHunter> er, "cannot access /etc/x11/xorg.conf.d: No such file or directory"
[10:31] <moetunes> grep config /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[10:32] <StockHunter> "grep: /var/log/xorg.0.log: No such file or directory
[10:32] <moetunes> capital X
[10:32] <StockHunter> bingo
[10:33] <StockHunter> now what am i looking for?
[10:33] <moetunes> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"   or similar
[10:33] <moetunes> this   ^^ bit
[10:34] <StockHunter> ok, it's "Using config directory: '/usr/lib/x11/xorg.conf.d'"
[10:35] <moetunes> it should name a file as well as a dir
[10:36] <StockHunter> i don't see a file just that ^
[10:36] <moetunes> or it might be something that is in startup for xfce - try moving ~/.config/xfce4 to ~/.config/xfce4.bak
[10:37] <moetunes> then   sudo gdm restart
[10:37] <StockHunter> how?
[10:37] <StockHunter> how do i move it?
[10:37] <moetunes> from the terminal do   mv -v ~/.config/xfce4 to ~/.config/xfce4.bak
[10:37] <moetunes> from the terminal do   mv -v ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.bak
[10:39] <StockHunter> ok looks like it moved it but my reboot command said: failed to acquire org.gnome.displaymanager
[10:39] <StockHunter> could not acquire name: bailing out
[10:40] <moetunes> where did it say this?
[10:41] <StockHunter> after i typed "sudo gdm restart" then my password
[10:41] <moetunes> k
[10:41] <moetunes> does the log give an error ?
[10:41] <StockHunter> ?
[10:42] <moetunes> the X log is /var/log/Xorg.0.log - it will tell if errors out and why - use   less /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[10:43] <moetunes> to read it
[10:43] <StockHunter> k, 1 sec my batterie went dead i'm booting back up with it plugged in
[10:46] <StockHunter> doesn't seem to be any errors
[10:47] <StockHunter> it's working now!
[10:47] <StockHunter> the manual reboot worked
[10:48] <StockHunter> i got my screen back :)
[10:48] <moetunes> woot!
[10:49] <StockHunter> you are awesome :D
[10:50] <moetunes> seems moving the config for xfce4 did the trick then
[10:50] <StockHunter> yeah
[10:50] <moetunes> :]
[10:50] <StockHunter> lol ok, the xfce way of increasing the pointer speed doesn't seem to be working
[10:52] <moetunes> I've never bothered with the mouse settings - you could try and access xset directley
[10:52] <moetunes> man xset
[10:53] <StockHunter> na, it's not that bad, i'm just used to uber fast
[10:53] <StockHunter> i'm not gonna push my luck any more tonight :)
[10:53] <moetunes> heh
[10:58] <StockHunter> thank you so much for your help! i'm gonna head off IRC now
[13:44] <Thermi> <3 XFCE
[13:44] <Thermi> :>
[14:47] <djogli> hi, can anyone help me with adding little script to sudoers, thats only way i know, since it has to start after X with sudo rights
[14:47] <djogli> xubuntu 10.04
[14:48] <djogli> i tried, it takes just one line, but terminal still asks for password
[15:06] <moetunes> djogli:  what was the line you used?
[15:06] <djogli> 1 sec ill tell you
[15:07] <djogli> moetunes, djordje ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/bin/kbd_fix
[15:08] <djogli> kbd_fix is bash script that turns off one key on keyboard
[15:09] <moetunes> where in the file is the line? start middle or end?
[15:10] <djogli> kbd_fix is file
[15:10] <djogli> oh
[15:10] <djogli> in middle
[15:10] <moetunes> try it at the end
[15:10] <djogli> under user privilage specification
[15:12] <moetunes> something after that line might be changing things again
[15:12] <djogli> but its pretty much empty file, just comments
[15:13] <djogli> do i need to restart
[15:13] <djogli> xubuntu
[15:13] <moetunes> I think just logout
[15:13] <djogli> so i can try it in terminal
[15:14] <moetunes> depends how you start the script
[15:14] <djogli> it seems to work in terminal
[15:14] <djogli> i mean its executed
[15:14] <moetunes> so the script should work then hopefully
[15:14] <djogli> it sends error, which is normal since X is not on that one.
[15:15] <moetunes> k :]
[15:15] <djogli> thanks moetunes :)
[15:15] <moetunes> np :]
[15:48] <thevishy> how do I add CPU frequency selector to the task bar
[16:48] <nicofs> short question: what app should I use to watch tv (digital/analogue)?
[16:51] <moetunes> I like me-tv
[16:52] <rasgarath> how can i customize places?
[16:53] <rasgarath> like adding more menus beside Documents, Downloads etc.
[16:53] <nicofs> moetunes: it can't detect my device...
[16:53] <moetunes> oh
[17:01] <nicofs> how can I get my tv-stick to work (cinergy hybrid xe)?
[17:47] <charlie-tca> !mythbuntu | nicofs
[17:48] <charlie-tca> It is for tv watching, too
[17:48] <charlie-tca> You can just add the apps used by mythbuntu to Xubuntu
[17:49] <nicofs> charlie-tca: I don't need standalone... just a tv application that works...
[17:59] <charlie-tca> Just check out the apps they use.
[17:59]  * Besogon dowloading google OS
[18:18] <charding> Is there a way to find out what version of software is available in my repos using apt-get or apt-*?
[18:39] <charlie-tca> yes, you can use apt-cache policy PACKAGE
[18:39] <alexneb> seria posible instalar xubuntu en un amd k6 de 64mb???
[18:39] <charlie-tca> charding: ^ ^ for you
[18:40] <charlie-tca> alexneb: english, please
[18:40] <charlie-tca> I think the answer is yes, alexneb
[18:40] <alexneb> sorry
[18:41] <alexneb> is installed one xubuntu in one amd k6 64 mb ram???
[18:41] <alexneb> my ingkish is dead
[18:41] <alexneb> .P
[18:41] <charlie-tca> I think if you have 64mb memory, you can install using the alternate image cd. It won't run if you use a GUI, though. You need at least 192MB ram for things to work
[18:42] <alexneb> ok
[18:42] <alexneb> thanks
[18:42] <alexneb> :)
[18:42] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[18:44] <charding> charlie-tca: thanks
[18:45] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:57] <mnemoc> hi, in 10.10, is it possible to use xfwm4 as decorator for compiz or tell gtk-window-decorator to use the same theme xfwm uses?
[20:58] <mnemoc> can i avoid using emerld?
[20:58] <Sysi> if you can get it working, yes
[20:59] <Sysi> i didn't, see compiz setti.gs
[20:59] <mnemoc> :)
[21:00] <mnemoc> everything I try, comnm
[21:00] <mnemoc> err
[21:00] <mnemoc> everything I try, compiz --replace end giving me not window borders :<
[21:01] <Sysi> then not, you need to find or create similar theme
[21:04] <mnemoc> do you know one? ... this Bluebird is so clean and confortable...
[21:05] <Sysi> i hate compiz/things needed for it :P
[21:07] <Sysi> i liked radial-emerald, its a bit more glossy
[21:41] <oranges13> wow there's alot of people in here O_O
[21:42] <mark76> Ssh. We're having a sleep in ;)
[21:42] <oranges13> lol
[21:47] <oranges13> So I tried Lubuntu, and I gotta say its nice looking and fast but it doesn't come with as much out of the box :-/
[21:59] <charlie-tca> hmm, I am glad they did try lubuntu
[22:23] <zygomatik> hi
[22:23] <zygomatik> i need help with the grub shell
[22:23] <zygomatik> i'm trying to recover from a root fs kernel panic
[22:23] <mark76> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imF8TnXcdhU


[00:10] <spiv> thomi: is it a stacked branch where the stacked-on branch has moved, or something?  It's basically saying part of the history isn't there anymore, which shouldn't happen in a self-contained repo.
[00:11] <spiv> But perhaps could happen if it depends on other repo for some of the history (i.e. is stacked).
[00:11] <spiv> Perhaps see if you can find a likely repo with that revision in it.
[00:11] <thomi> hmmmm..
[00:13] <fullermd> That sounds like it's the _current_ rev that's a ghost, which is Really Marfed Up.
[00:14] <thomi> the repo isn't anything special, I don't think.
[03:39]  * bambams began reading bzrinit.com after the author's blog post enraged him.
[03:39] <bambams> And now I just don't know what to think.
[04:12] <wgrant> thomi: If it's a package branch, that's probably https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/888615
[04:13] <thomi> wgrant: it's a charm branch. Same problem I guess?
[04:13] <wgrant> thomi: Likely.
[04:14] <thomi> *sigh*
[04:14] <wgrant> thomi: There's a workaround in the bug.
[04:14] <wgrant> Comment #3
[04:14] <thomi> it's not a huge deal, just yet another papercut in my day :D


[04:05] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: big fail from my side. I am doing my best to crash autojack/studio controls on 20.10 but I am not having much success so far. I will keep trying but for now I'd call this good news 😄
[18:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Mauro Gaspari: And that's the thing: I don't know how these people are crashing it. On a clean install, it runs perfectly.  I might have to backport the newest version of Jack.
[23:41] <MauroGaspari[m]> <Eickmeyer[m] "Mauro Gaspari: And that's the th"> I agree. I have 2 installs on hardware and one more on VM and I find it really stable. The only issures i have noticed myself are that it seems jack does not like log off and re log, or sleep too much. But even then, it did not crash on me. Just could not auto start. It is simply a matter to go in studio controls and restart jack.
[23:43] <MauroGaspari[m]> But well, it could be hardware related or Frankenstein builds with other software we don't know about. In my early JACK days, i messed my system by fiddling with too many of those jack management apps on arch and had to wipe the system clean to recover.