[12:49] <sakrecoer_> cfhowlett: knome: i understand. i'll experiment a little with the the sandbox on zequence server see what sexyness we can achieve with what is :)
[12:50] <sakrecoer_> i was thinking about creating a jekyll template matching knome's template, just for depoloying feature-showcase. but given the publication (aka uploadrights and comapny) it is too complicated
[12:51] <sakrecoer_> too complicated to use, not to create template.
[12:51] <sakrecoer_> i'm not sure i'm ready to take the traffic and the responsability that comes with it using a subdomain
[12:53] <sakrecoer_> so i wont even ask my IProv. he sure has other fish to fry
[14:48] <sakrecoer_> now that rhe 14.04.4 is in releases at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/ shoulnd't we update the website?
[15:01] <cfhowlett> yep
[17:45] <zequence> sakrecoer_: Yes, you are right. A few links need to be updated there, and an announcement would be good too
[18:20] <OvenWerks> zequence: people are looking for the download button on our web page to point to 14.04.4 instead of .3
[18:20] <OvenWerks> zequence: Oh you are already talking about that ... :)  sorry.
[18:27] <zequence> Ok, all updated
[18:27] <zequence> Not doing an announcement. Not that big of a deal, but if someone wants to, be my guest


[03:30] <newz2000> hi, soon we'll be updating the new look of www.ubuntu.com
[03:31] <newz2000> jono thought we should make some effort to get fridge updated with the new look close too
[03:31] <newz2000> s/close//
[03:38] <newz2000> jenda: are you the contact for the fridge website?
[08:59] <jenda> newz2000: nope
[08:59] <jenda> I never even touched it :)
[08:59] <newz2000> ok, couldn't remember who I talked to a while back
[08:59] <newz2000> do you know who is?


[00:00] <SineDeviance> i only have about 15 running processes now
[00:00] <SineDeviance> i have killed all else
[00:01] <David-A> top or htop or "ps -aux | sort -k4" can you see what use the most?
[00:02] <SineDeviance> ps -aux | sort -k4
[00:02] <SineDeviance> er .. lol brb
[00:02] <SineDeviance> irssi is using the most @ 0.9%
[00:03] <SineDeviance> David-A: thats what i was saying. the numbers just dont add up.
[00:03] <SineDeviance> you think it could be a kernel bug?
[00:03] <pteague> how much ram do you have?
[00:03] <SineDeviance> 512 meg
[00:03] <SineDeviance> so this is using roughly over half my ram
[00:03] <SineDeviance> ... for absolutely nothing
[00:04] <SineDeviance> maybe i should reinstall again
[00:04] <knome> SineDeviance, for running the system
[00:04] <knome> SineDeviance, the minimum requirements are not 0MB for a reason ;)
[00:05] <SineDeviance> knome: i know the system shouldn't use 300 megs of ram just to run a text interface.
[00:05] <SineDeviance> should be closer to 100 megs
[00:05] <SineDeviance> my server is running crunchbang 9.04.1 in text mode and is only using about 150 megs of ram, thats with apache/mysql and such running.
[00:06] <SineDeviance> i am going to try a different kernel i think
[00:06] <knome> SineDeviance, i suppose there is still some more services running in xubuntu
[00:06] <knome> SineDeviance, though you are right that 300 is somewhat much, but still :)
[00:06] <SineDeviance> knome: i killed all of those processes
[00:07] <SineDeviance> there is nothing except irssi and htop running on the system in userland now. and i killed most of the root threads. there is no gui-related stuff running.
[00:07] <SineDeviance> including all the kernel threads, i show about 30 processes in htop
[00:07] <knome> SineDeviance, the kernels are not optimized, eg. they have stuff you don't really need
[00:07] <SineDeviance> er 70, sorry
[00:07] <pteague> you're also running various hardware modules... if you really want to run lightweight you should look at compiling things yourself & using uclibc i think it is? been a while since i did floppy based firewalls
[00:08] <SineDeviance> guys, none of this explains why it was only using 200 megs running xfce4 at idle yesterday and now it's using 400 megs
[00:08] <knome> pteague, have you tried looking at alsamixer (re: audio)
[00:08] <SineDeviance> something has changed
[00:08] <knome> SineDeviance, you probably did some updates?
[00:09] <SineDeviance> knome: i installed two packages. openoffice was one of them, and openttd was the other.
[00:09] <pteague> knome, yeah, it's only showing front mic, surround, center, lfe, side, & mic as being muted, everything else (including front) is not muted
[00:09] <SineDeviance> those programs aren't even running so that doesnt mean anything
[00:09] <SineDeviance> this is for all intents and purposes a fresh install
[00:09] <pteague> wtf? hold on... i just changed something & suddenly heard sound \o/
[00:10] <pteague> knome, yep, that was it... surround... which apparently didn't matter before now suddenly matters
[00:10] <SineDeviance> even after i did a full apt-get upgrade of the system and rebooted, it was only using ~200 megs of ram
[00:11] <knome> pteague, please, do not use even non-family-friendly abbreviations :)
[00:11] <pteague> fudge is yummy
[00:12] <SineDeviance> brb
[00:12] <David-A> pteague: do you have one of those new computers with 5 or 6 colored audio plugs at the back? i mean is surround settings mattered?
[00:14] <SineDeviance> woah
[00:14] <SineDeviance> i just rebooted the system and like magic it's only using 142 megs of ram
[00:14] <knome> on my audigy 2 platinum ex, i have to turn up "analog mix" to hear *anything*
[00:14] <pteague> David-A, yes i do, but i've not changed any of my mute settings for a while which is why i'm somewhat dumbfounded... i think pulseaudio must have been doing something & then crashed... & then the updates i downloaded today before my reboot must have either changed the mute settings or changed how they worked
[00:22] <David-A> pteague: good it works no. i am no fan of pulseaudio. i think it tries to be smart. fun on ubuntu: open alsamixer in terminal, change volume in panel, watch master and pcm in terminal.
[00:23] <knome> David-A, best fun on ubuntu: do not use a gui mixer
[00:24] <pteague> i'm hoping that it was pulse audio that was causing my volume to be insanely low... i couldn't hear low voices in movies... had to play them on the other box & pipe the sound in via line-in (i'm too lazy to move the headphone jack around between boxes)
[00:25] <David-A> :)
[00:27] <pteague> now that i'm looking at the mixers... i'm noticing that surround isn't on my xfce mixer which means it didn't have any affect on anything before... i went through & mute/unmuted the various channels & removed the "useless" channels from my mixer
[00:29] <SineDeviance> David-A, my system is fine now. dunno what happened. maybe a memory leak in the kernel?
[00:42] <pteague> SineDeviance, you just needed to wait until i was able to resolve my issue before yours would auto-resolve ;)
[00:42] <SineDeviance> maybe so :D
[01:02] <David-A> hat dot-files to keep, or to skip, when moving from xubuntu to fedora? (a list of dot-file-names, or a program to produce such a list)
[01:02] <David-A> hat->what
[01:08] <pteague> David-A, in ~ ?
[01:10] <David-A> pteague: yes, dot-files and dot-dirs. I have made a list of what I THINK i want to keep, but i am not sure, so i would like a definite list by somone or from a program.
[01:12] <pteague> should be able to keep all of them depending on versions
[01:12] <neozen> meaning..... a mapping from .files/dirs to applications which created them....... name should be understandable
[01:13] <pteague> may also depend on what packages are available... i.e. if you've got some plugin on 1 that isn't available on the other it might cause a problem depending on how the program is set up
[01:13] <David-A> pteague: fedora choked on a complete copy of home, and looked strange on a big subset.
[01:13] <neozen> ahhhh
[01:13] <pteague> David-A, how different were the versions?
[01:13] <neozen> David-A: choked how exactly?
[01:14] <David-A> xubuntu 9.04 -> fedora 13 xfce
[01:15] <pteague> no, versions of the software... i.e. there's a difference between subversion 1.4 & 1.6
[01:15] <David-A> neozen: choked, login fails and comes back to login screen. nothing in .xsessionerrors (could be some locale not installed yet)
[01:17] <neozen> David-A: ....bad times..... strange that login would completely fail
[01:18] <neozen> David-A: *seems strange
[01:18] <knome> good night and good luck with all the problems
[01:18] <David-A> pteague: currently there is about 58 dot-files on my keep-list. i am sure a lot of them has new versions in fedora 13 compared to xubuntu 9.04
[01:18] <pteague> i know i had problems with my kde config files between i think it was hardy & intrepid
[01:19] <pteague> xfce only had some slight issues between jaunty & koala i think it was
[01:19] <neozen> ....well... if they're newer.... they should be able to process / update older format of config files..... AFAIK that's best practice when you change your config file / DTS
[01:19] <David-A> has (pl) -> have
[04:03] <Chaorain> I:m looking to join a wireless network. I can:t find the button
[04:04] <Raggs> on the panel to the left of the clock?
[04:05] <Chaorain> uh I don:t see any panel. I:m running Mythbuntu which uses xfce if that makes a difference
[04:06] <Raggs> i dont know how similar the too are
[04:06] <Raggs> two
[04:10] <Chaorain> oh wow, its there but the theme makes it impossible to see
[04:10] <Raggs> glad it is there
[04:17] <pteague> Chaorain, you figure it out?
[07:26] <GonardFreeman> hi people)
[07:27] <GonardFreeman> any body know, is there some "xubuntu-panel" command , like gnome-panel?
[07:28] <bazhang> !panels
[07:29] <GonardFreeman> thx
[07:29] <GonardFreeman> desappear
[07:29] <GonardFreeman> disappear)
[08:12] <danjac> Hi, having a problem with my Xubuntu 10.04 install on Acer Aspire One. Was working perfectly before, but latest upgrade seems to have broken CouchDB. After reboot it immediately uses up all memory, so I have to kill it. Is there good reason to keep CouchDB on my install, or can I safely remove it ?
[08:14] <well_laid_lawn> !info couchdb
[08:14] <well_laid_lawn> seems it might be ok to remove - just check what has to go with it
[08:17] <danjac> Might be safer to remove from startup programs until bug is fixed.
[08:27] <danjac> this looks like this bug: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1498474
[08:32] <danjac> also this: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/05/lucid-dream-ars-reviews-ubuntu-1004.ars/9
[08:32] <danjac> it could be that Gwibber needs to be removed as well.
[08:36] <danjac> OK, couch and gwibber removed, works fine. Don't understand why Canonical don't just use SQLite for desktop storage.
[08:55] <err_sql> hi. anybody here?
[08:56] <err_sql> i have a xubuntu 6.06 installed on an imac g3, and i can't install 3 mobile broadband
[09:07] <Sysi> !6.06 | err_sql
[09:10] <bazhang> that maybe should be !ppc
[09:11] <Sysi> also
[09:11] <bazhang> err_sql, any reason not to try the much more recent builds of ah he quit
[09:13] <Sysi> g3 is low-end
[09:14] <bazhang> err_sql, any reason not to use a much more recent version of xubuntu? perhaps a more recent kernel would have support for that
[09:15] <Sysi> 6.06 repos are mostly down, and it has old kernel and networkmanager
[09:19] <bazhang> thats an ancient kernel
[09:19] <Sysi> ancient OS :p
[09:52] <mtrg> Hi, how to position my 2nd monitor?
[09:54] <bazhang> mtrg, using xrandr?
[09:57] <mtrg> bazhang: any GUI?
[09:58] <bazhang> mtrg, does xrandr have a gui? is that your question? have you read the wiki for it?
[09:58] <bazhang> !xrandr
[10:06] <mtrg> news
[10:07] <mtrg> X.org is complicated
[10:07] <mtrg> ARandR worked great -- thanks
[10:08] <mtrg> how to make my track pointer faster?
[10:08] <mtrg> more sensitive
[11:57] <slow-motion> hi
[12:18] <mtrg> what is the window manager xubntu uses?
[12:18] <TheSheep> xfwm4
[12:20] <mtrg> TheSheep: I want to use a theme that happens to use metacity WM -- should I replace xfwm4?
[12:21] <TheSheep> use it on ubuntu
[12:21] <mtrg> ubuntu uses metacity wm?
[12:21] <TheSheep> yes
[12:21] <mtrg> why shouldn't I use it on xfce -- just replacing xfwm4
[12:22] <TheSheep> because xfwm4 is part of xfce
[12:22] <mtrg> that's weird then..
[12:22] <mtrg> http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php/The+Days+of+Grays?content=122249
[12:23] <mtrg> that's it
[12:23] <Sysi> you lose xfce features if you use metacity
[12:23] <TheSheep> that's a gtk theme, not window manager theme
[12:23] <Sysi> xfce/xfwm
[12:23] <TheSheep> you don't need a specific window manager to use it
[12:23] <mtrg> i know
[12:23] <mtrg> but there, it says "metacity theme included"
[12:23] <Sysi> you can find nice looking xfwm theme
[12:28] <mtrg> so then that must be an xfwm theme
[12:29] <mtrg> is there any xfwm theme named metacity
[12:29] <Sysi> what
[12:29] <mtrg> ignore
[12:29] <mtrg> where should xfwm themes be placed?
[12:30] <Sysi> ~/.themes/
[12:30] <Sysi> you need to create that hidden folder yourself
[12:30] <mtrg> yeah, did it works
[12:30] <mtrg> well, it then seems that guy wants me to use metacity
[13:29] <mtrg> great
[13:30] <mtrg> xubuntu is fine distro
[13:30] <mtrg> only because it's bloated with apps so I can test them
[13:30] <mtrg> i'll go to gentoo when i know what's there and what i need :D
[17:02] <slow-motion> bye
[17:53] <sealive> hi from Germany -> got a Quest about connecting a Xbuntu Hardy via ethernet to share the internet connection of a lucid Desktow with wlan access
[18:05] <sealive> someone can help me please ?
[18:06] <likemindead> You want to set up an adhoc network?
[18:06] <sealive> yes
[18:07] <likemindead> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/creating-an-adhoc-host-with-ubuntu.html
[18:07] <likemindead> More: http://duckduckgo.com/?q=adhoc+Ubuntu
[18:08] <sealive> issue a lucid i386 has www access thru a wlan . a xbuntu is connectet to the lucid via eth cable and can ping it
[18:08] <sealive> i did http://pastebin.com/2ZJg1MV9 on the lucid
[18:09] <sealive> likemindead: no this is not a adhok sorry iam german
[18:11] <bazhang> !ics
[18:11] <likemindead> I'm sorry, I'm not sure what it is you're trying to do, sealive.
[18:12] <likemindead> Ah! Try ics I suppose! ;-] (Thanks, bazhang.)
[18:12] <sealive> likemindead: ok thanks
[18:13] <sealive> YES you got it !
[18:13] <sealive> http://pastebin.com/2ZJg1MV9 this is my lucid setup that is the -s ip for shoudent this be 0.1
[18:16] <sealive> i do not now why but it works
[18:16] <sealive> so by
[19:18] <GonardFreeman> hillo to all
[19:19] <GonardFreeman> who knows, how to install theme with extention .tar.gz?
[19:20] <Sysi> right click → extract here
[19:21] <Sysi> create (hidden) folder named .themes to your home folder
[19:21] <Sysi> and copy it to there
[19:23] <GonardFreeman> thx
[20:09] <PrebenR> why isn't thuar the default program when one choose "open container folder" in firefox download? I tired of closing easytag
[20:12] <shawn1> I have a question about the minimum system requirements of ubuntu
[20:12] <shawn1> I'm trying to run it on the following system and it fails
[20:12] <PrebenR> yes
[20:13] <shawn1> Intel Celeron (Covington) Processor 266Mhz/66Mhz FSB, 3 GB Hard Drive, and 256MB of RAM
[20:14] <PrebenR> better try : damn small linux, puppy linux or tiny core linux
[20:15] <PrebenR> ubuntu would run extremely slow on it
[20:15] <PrebenR> or you could try arch linux
[20:15] <PrebenR> latter is advanced, but you will learn a lot
[20:16] <PrebenR> HTH
[20:17] <PrebenR> I would recommend you start with puppy linux
[20:32] <shawn1> o.o
[23:20] <ecc> how do you span across multiple monitors? ubuntu desktop works fine but xubuntu won't let me
[23:21] <Kangarooo> hello what about alpha 1 ? cant download from xubuntu
[23:22] <Raggs> Kangarooo,  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/maverick/alpha-2/
[23:22] <Raggs> alpha2 though
[23:23] <Tuna-Fish2> without pulseaudio and with 2 alsa sound devices, how can I choose which one I want to play something back to?
[23:23] <Kangarooo> ah ok so the newer the better i want to try that 10.10 but in website that link then is wrong
[23:23] <Kangarooo> alpha1 link doesnt work. or it should be maybe better removed and new info posted
[23:24] <Sysi> daily works ~always
[23:25] <Sysi> i installed it via netinstall, grub install failed so i installed LILO, now i was able to install grub from booted system
[23:25] <ecc> right now the image is mirrored on both  monitors, i just want to use each separate
[23:26] <Sysi> xrandr
[23:26] <Sysi> !xrandr
[23:26] <Sysi> !info arandr
[23:31] <ecc> lots of options trying to find the one to split the two
[23:33] <Sysi> usually --left/right-of
[23:33] <ecc> xrandr --output FOO --right-of BAR
[23:33] <Kangarooo> when i put xubuntu cd in comp in xubuntu then where to look to see witch date release it is?
[23:35] <ecc> thanks


[00:07] <GrueMaster> bdmurray: I can confirm it here on today's daily preinstalled arm images using oem-config (computer name: 1 - Ok).
[09:28] <jamespage> jibel: working on verifying those lucid kickstart fixes now
[12:13] <jamespage> jibel: struggling....
[12:13] <jamespage> I get wierd behaviour for bug 708548
[12:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 708548 in kickseed (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "kickstart not removing logical volume data (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708548
[12:29] <mvo> jibel: that failure during the upgrade, where dpkg --configure dpkg is run and that causes the upgade to fail - what profile was that again? I'm trying to find the log now
[12:45] <jibel> mvo, it was lucid deskup bug 927993
[12:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 927993 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) (and 1 other project) "distribution upgrade from lucid to precise failed with : package dpkg is already installed and configured (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927993
[12:46] <jibel> this run failed https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-upgrade-lucid-desktop/14/ARCH=amd64,LTS=lts,PROFILE=ubuntu,label=upgrade-test/
[12:46] <mvo> thanks jibel
[12:46] <jibel> and its working since then
[12:51] <jamespage> jibel: I'm going to have to call time on verifying those two bugs
[12:52] <jamespage> I've spent 4 hours so far and I don't know whether its the hardware I'm using or the kickstart but I've struggle to re-produce either the previous behaviour or verify the fixes
[12:53] <jibel> jamespage, thanks for looking into it.
[12:53] <jibel> Daviey, ^
[12:54] <jibel> Daviey, debian-installer-utils is verified and the 2 kickstart/iscsi won't be without a reply from the OR
[12:56] <Daviey> jibel: sorry, OR?
[12:56] <jibel> Daviey, Original Reporter
[12:56] <Daviey> ah
[12:56] <Daviey> jibel: have the bug number to hand?
[12:57] <jibel> bug 708548 bug 810068
[12:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 708548 in kickseed (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "kickstart not removing logical volume data (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708548
[12:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 810068 in partman-iscsi (Ubuntu Natty) (and 7 other projects) "kickstart iscsi option broken (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810068
[12:58] <jibel> Daviey, our automated test use preseeding but don't cover partman-iscsi, we can't guarantee there is no regression.
[13:00] <jibel> Daviey, apart from these 2 unverified SRU, automated are running for a week now without a failure
[13:00] <jibel> and I did a manual smoketest of desktop, alternate, server and netboot
[13:00] <jibel> Daviey, they all looks good.
[13:01] <Daviey> jibel: can we take this to -release?
[13:02] <jibel> Daviey, -release, what do you mean ?
[13:03] <jibel> Daviey, oh #ubuntu-release :)
[13:04] <jibel> I was in -proposed, -updates and was thinking of the release pocket
[13:05] <Daviey> heh
[13:05] <Daviey>  sudo apt-get remove --purge jibel
[13:06] <Daviey>  sudo apt-get install -t lucid-release jibel
[15:30] <skaet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/929384
[15:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 929384 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "nvidia drivers broken by the recent libc update (affects: 16) (dups: 17) (heat: 164)" [High,Confirmed]
[15:30] <skaet> Anyone testing with daily images and NVIDIA hardware - please hold off on upgrades until ^^ is resolved.
[16:30] <jibel> jamespage, thanks again for your help.
[16:31] <jamespage> jibel, np
[16:31] <jibel> jamespage, re iscsi testing, do you have anything we could move to the lab for automated testing ?
[16:31] <jibel> or any script available I could have a look at and figure how to automate it ?
[16:31] <jamespage> jibel: nothing automated - it was on my TODO for this release prior to the freeze we agreed for usit
[16:31] <jamespage> have a script tho
[16:33] <jamespage> jibel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/835400/
[16:33] <jamespage> and apt-get install tgt
[16:34] <jamespage> note that its transient - if you restart tgt you have to reconfigure
[16:34] <jamespage> my thinking was that we could run this on the hosts that run ISO testing
[16:34] <jamespage> it can expose to the kvm's over the bridge and could be setup for each individual test case (and throw away afterwards)
[16:34] <jamespage> thats how I use it anyway
[16:35] <jamespage> oh - and you have to grab the initrd from the resulting installs....
[16:36] <jamespage> jibel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/835403/
[19:05] <valdur55> Hello, i am using lubuntu 12.04 alpha2 live-cd and i can't open http with xdg-open.  Sample: xdg-open http://lubuntu.net


[00:00] <lifeless> jono: is the broken run running lucid ?
[00:00] <jono> lifeless, no, on Precise
[00:00] <jono> but I think I sourced the issue
[00:01] <jono> I have a loop which runs any outstanding scripts and it was running it again after the first script had started
[00:01] <jono> when changed the loop to wait enough time for the script to complete, it worked fine
[00:19] <jono> lifeless, so it looks like I am still getting this SSLError about the read timing out
[00:24] <poolie> jono, this is from a launchpadlib script?
[00:24] <poolie> do you have a proxy?
[00:24] <jono> poolie, yes, in a lplib script, and no proxy
[00:25] <jono> sometimes it runs fine, sometimes I get the SSLError
[00:25] <poolie> ...
[00:25] <poolie> hm
[00:25] <poolie> mtu problem perhaps?
[00:25] <poolie> please pastebin the traceback?
[00:25] <lifeless> jono: butfirst, make a new gpgkey (don't!, I'm teasing)
[00:26] <jono> lifeless, lol
[00:26] <jono> poolie, one sec
[00:27] <jono> poolie, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/845199/
[00:27] <poolie> hm, it's failing when starting to read the request
[00:28] <poolie> it's possible it's timing out on the server
[00:28] <poolie> i wonder if you have old code that's connecting to edge.l.n?
[00:29] <jono> I only wrote this yesterday
[00:29] <jono> I don't think it talks to edge
[00:31] <poolie> i would probably try getting a packet capture next, i guess
[00:31] <poolie> do you know how to do that in tcpdump or wireshark?
[00:33] <jono> poolie, sorry, no
[00:33] <poolie> ok
[00:33] <poolie> btw are you jono bacon or some other jono? :)
[00:33] <poolie> ...
[00:34] <poolie> ok try
[00:34] <poolie> sudo tcpdump -i eth0 -p ip net <IP_ADDRESS>/24 and tcp port 443 -w /tmp/lp.dump
[00:34] <poolie> (you might need to install it)
[00:34] <poolie> then put that file somewhere
[00:34] <jono> poolie, jono bacon
[00:35] <poolie> you're intentionally running the .py~ version?
[00:35] <jono> no, that is a backup file, but it is the same
[00:35] <jono> let me double check
[00:36] <jono> poolie, I am on wireless, is that wlan0 ?
[00:36] <poolie> oh right
[00:36] <poolie> hm
[00:36] <poolie> there is another thing you can do which is
[00:36] <poolie> maybe a bit easier
[00:37] <poolie> in your script, before you import launchpadlib
[00:37] <poolie> insert
[00:37] <poolie> import httplib2;httplib2.debuglevel = 2
[00:40] <jono> ok I just ran it and it worked
[00:40] <jono> will run a few more times until the problem happens
[00:41] <poolie> that may help and be easier
[00:42] <poolie> getting a capture when it does occur could be helpful
[00:42] <poolie> in telling whether it's a client, server or network error
[00:42] <poolie> :l
[00:42] <jono> got it
[00:42] <jono> want me to pastebin it?
[00:42] <StevenK> That sounds good
[00:43] <poolie> yep
[00:43] <jono> ok, here is the output from the script first: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/845209/
[00:44] <jono> what should I do with the dump file?
[00:45] <poolie> put it on chinstrap or something
[00:45] <jono> http://jonobacon.org/files/lp.dump
[00:49] <poolie> :/
[00:49] <poolie> there's nothing obvious to me
[00:50] <poolie> what is different between the machine where it works and where it doesn't?
[00:51] <jono> poolie, same machine
[00:51] <jono> although I have tried it on two machines also
[00:51] <jono> it seems to happen randomly
[00:51] <poolie> oh ok
[00:51] <jono> which would suggest it is a server issue
[00:51] <poolie> yeah i guess it is
[00:56] <poolie> jono,  i guess you should write your app to just catch the exception and retry
[00:56] <jono> thanks poolie
[00:56] <lifeless> mmmm
[00:56] <jono> poolie, do I need to file a bug about this?
[00:56]  * lifeless suspects another client side SSL bug
[00:56] <lifeless> like the last one that had some bzr users in a tizzy
[00:57] <lifeless> are we using openssl or gnutls ? There was a gnutls issue recently IIRC
[01:01] <poolie> that has different symptoms
[01:01] <poolie> it's possible it's the same bug
[01:02] <poolie> actually that seems unlikely but it's possible it's a similar bug, or a reflection of a similar deep problem
[01:02] <poolie> jono it would be worth filing a bug
[01:02] <poolie> even if we don't know what the target should be :)
[01:03] <poolie> what would be awesome is if you can write a program that just loops until it fails
[01:03] <poolie> then we can try it on different clients, or a developer can reproduce it
[01:03] <jono> sure, will see what I can do
[01:03] <poolie> mm it would be interesting too to know whether it's always the same url or set of urls
[01:03] <poolie> which would perhaps indicate an lp fault
[01:07] <poolie> jono, i don't think this is the problem but, after you write that script, it would be a bit interesting to see if
[01:07] <poolie> sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.tcp_mtu_probing=1
[01:07] <poolie> fixes it
[08:11] <benonsoftware> czajkowski: Thank you very much for your response
[08:11] <czajkowski> benonsoftware: no promblem
[08:11] <czajkowski> *problem
[08:12]  * benonsoftware is proberly going to stay up tonight reading each license :P
[09:13] <mrevell> Hallo
[09:20] <danhg> Hallo mrevell
[09:21] <mrevell> Hey there danhg
[09:21] <danhg> How's Yam Yam Land?
[09:22] <mrevell> Pretty good. How's Barthelona?
[09:35] <nyuszika7h> Hi, is it possible to remove an OpenPGP key from my Launchpad account (not only deactivate)?
[09:35] <nyuszika7h> I lost that key and I generated a new one.
[09:36]  * benonsoftware has lost keys many times :P
[09:39] <czajkowski> nyuszika7h: you should be able to remove it yourself there on your lp ac
[09:40] <nyuszika7h> czajkowski: I can only deactivate it
[09:40] <czajkowski> nyuszika7h: and your lp ac is ?
[09:40] <nyuszika7h> czajkowski: ~nyuszika7h
[09:41] <nyuszika7h> Key that I deactivated is 2048R/6A9D469C
[09:41] <odony> czajkowski: hi Laura, I have a question about batch validation of translations import when you have a minute (I'll wait in line ;-))
[09:42] <czajkowski> nyuszika7h: let me look
[09:42] <nyuszika7h> Ok
[09:44] <maxb> You can't fully remove keys. This is apparently by design
[09:44] <czajkowski> nyuszika7h: if you upload the new one you can replace it
[09:44] <nyuszika7h> czajkowski: I already uploaded the new one.
[09:44] <benonsoftware> czajkowski: I'm just wondering why does launchpad not remove things like that, or let a normal user do it? (I'll hope in line :P)
[09:44] <maxb> Then again, there's little need to remove keys
[09:44] <nyuszika7h> I also signed the Ubuntu Code of Conduct with the new key, and removed the old signature.
[09:44] <nyuszika7h> s/removed/deactivated/
[09:45] <maxb> nyuszika7h: Is there a reason deactivating the old key is not good enough?
[09:46] <nyuszika7h> maxb: I lost it, and I can't get it from anywhere because I don't have any backups of it.
[09:46] <maxb> right. so deactivate it, which you've already done
[09:47] <czajkowski> nyuszika7h: which is enough
[09:47] <czajkowski> odony: how can I help
[09:47] <nyuszika7h> Ok
[09:48] <odony> czajkowski: we've just branched off a new trunk->stable branch for our project and created a new series for it, then enable bidi auto-sync of translations on it, in order to preserver our trunk translations
[09:48] <maxb> The only reason you might need a key removed entirely was if you wanted to move it to a different Launchpad identity
[09:48] <odony> czajkowski: so the initial import has run, but it filled the translation queue with hundreds of PO files that we have to validate one by one (confirm language auto-detection and translation domain)
[09:48] <maxb> And if that was the case, you're stuck, because it's not possible (without raw SQL, which the admins now refuse to do)
[09:49] <odony> czajkowski: the thing is, all those PO files were already approved and reviewed in out trunk, but now we have to do it all again manually.... is there any way to speed this up?
[09:49] <czajkowski> odony: i'm about to find out from jtv
[09:49]  * jtv reads backlog
[09:50] <jtv> maxb, odony: There should be no need whatsoever to approve PO files manually.
[09:50] <odony> jtv: perhaps it is because our PO layout is not 100% standard?
[09:50] <maxb> I'm not part of the PO conversation, I'm only a part of the PHP conversation
[09:51] <maxb> *PGP
[09:51] <jtv> The layout makes all the difference, yes.
[09:51] <jtv> The standard layout is:
[09:51] <jtv> Each PO file in the same directory as its template,
[09:51] <odony> jtv: e.g. our main branch has about 200 translation domains and this is the layout:   /domain/i18n/xx.po
[09:51] <jtv> and named after the language code.
[09:51] <jtv> That in itself should be fine,
[09:52] <jtv> as long as the template is /domain/i18n/yyyy.pot
[09:52] <jtv> I used yyyy; bad example.  I mean "your domain name"
[09:52] <odony> jtv: and the templates are  /domain/i18n/domain.pot
[09:52] <jtv> not "4-digit year" :-)
[09:52] <jtv> Then that should work.
[09:58] <odony> jtv: actually I'm not too sure what happened, some of the PO files are stuck in the queue in Needs Review state, but the translations seem to have been imported because the same domain appears partially translated in the statistics for that series
[10:01] <lool> Hey
[10:01] <lool> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/92966336/autotools-dev_20110511.1_20120210.1.diff.gz says "A required database is unavailable. See http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus for maintenance and outage notifications."
[10:01] <lool> and no messages from launchpadstatus in a month
[10:02] <wgrant> lool: 1000-1005 UTC is an outage window
[10:02] <odony> lool: it's back
[10:02] <wgrant> It's back now
[10:02] <wgrant> Was down for 86 seconds.
[10:02] <lool> should the link be changed though?  or should a bot be setup to announce it on launchpadstatus?
[10:04] <odony> jtv: I guess I should first wait a few hours, our templates list is complete in the series but only the first few ones have a non-zero count of translations - I imagine this means the import is still in progress
[10:04] <odony> jtv: https://translations.launchpad.net/openobject-addons/6.1/+templates
[10:04] <jtv> odony: sorry for the delay; also in a phone call
[10:05] <odony> jtv: np, take your time :)
[10:06] <jtv> odony: the existing translations don't necessarily prove that imports happened.  By default, it shares translations from other series for the same project/template/language.
[10:06] <jtv> odony: the imports normally shouldn't take very long.  Scheduling is round-robin, so you'd see one of your files being imported, then a few minutes of imports for other projects, then one of yours again.
[10:07] <odony> jtv: ok... didn't know translations were shared between series
[10:07] <jtv> odony: I don't think that happened when you started using Launchpad Translations.  :)
[10:08] <jtv> But now, if a string is in 2 series (same template), translate one and it'll be instantly translated in the other series as well.
[10:09] <odony> jtv: sounds good, and actually explains an issue we had where our trunk translations started to bleed onto our previous 6.0 stable series.. causing bugs in the process ;-)  (because we use special PO comments for internal purposes, and their format had changed)
[10:10] <odony> jtv: that's actually weird.... I mean the msgid would be the same in the 2 series, but the comments were not... so I assume it should be using the one from the right series when exporting the actual PO, shouldn't it?
[10:10] <odony> jtv: s/the one/the ones/  (meaning the comments)
[10:18] <jtv> odony: off the phone.  :)
[10:19] <odony> jtv: :)
[10:19] <jtv> odony: we never really anticipated the comments being so significant, really; I think the comment will be whatever was imported most recently.
[10:22] <odony> jtv: ok, that would indeed have been our trunk comments... I understand better. Anyway we worked around it and it was really no big deal
[10:22] <odony> jtv: so, assuming the translation count basically comes from other series, we still have hundreds of PO sitting in the import queue and waiting to be manually reviewed... what can we do about them? ignore them because they're in fact identical to the translations that are shared?
[10:22] <odony> jtv: e.g. https://translations.launchpad.net/openerp-web/6.1/+imports?field.filter_status=NEEDS_REVIEW&field.filter_extension=all
[10:22]  * jtv has a look
[10:24] <jtv> I'll just go through a bunch of checkboxes now, things that _might_ be blocking automatic approval.  May take a while.
[10:24] <jtv> The paths look OK; there's a template in the same directory.
[10:24] <odony> jtv: thanks... the openerp-web project has a different layout from what I mentioned with a leading /addons dir, but the problem looks similar in our main openobject-addons project  https://translations.launchpad.net/openobject-addons/6.1/+imports?field.filter_status=NEEDS_REVIEW&field.filter_extension=all
[10:25] <jtv> There are also no weird elements in the path that might confuse things.
[10:25] <odony> jtv: normally the naming of the po files is also standard
[10:25] <jtv> Yes, the names look fine.
[10:25] <jtv> (I'll just stick with the openerp-web one for now; it's easy to spread oneself too thin with so complex a piece of software.)
[10:26] <odony> jtv: sure
[10:26] <jtv> Now let me see if there's really just one template in that directory.  Maybe there's too and the queue gardener can't choose.
[10:26] <odony> ok
[10:28] <jtv> Nope; no competing templates.
[10:28] <jtv> There's one matching template, and it's active.
[10:28] <odony> alright
[10:32] <jtv> odony: sorry, X crash.  The disadvantage of alpha-testing operating systems.
[10:32] <odony> odony: np ;-)
[10:32] <odony> err s/odony/jtv d'oh
[10:32] <jtv> Talking to yourself?  :)  Now, I haven't seen any reason why these uploads would not be approved.  So I'll have to dig a little deeper.  I'm going to dive into the log files.
[10:34] <odony> jtv: thanks a lot for taking the time to look.. I'm willing to try and automate the approval of the imports using lplib if that works, but I'd love to understand the inner working of the import system better as well
[10:34] <jtv> Sensible; this should be automatic.
[10:35] <jtv> Nothing remarkable in the logs either.  :(
[10:35] <odony> hmm
[10:36] <jtv> That's an older log file though; I'm getting an update.
[10:38] <odony> meanwhile the importing of our main templates is almost half done
[10:38] <odony> this beast is huge apparently ;-)
[10:41] <jtv> odony: I suppose!  It also depends on what else is going on the queue.  You can see the global import queue at https://translations.launchpad.net/+imports
[10:42] <jtv> There's a backlog of 502 approved entries, which need importing.  That can happen with large batches of uploads.
[10:43] <odony> jtv: interesting :)
[10:43] <jtv> There's a massive backlog of "needs review" entries though.
[10:44] <jtv> The queue gardener loops over all of those, oldest to newest, so it could simply be that it's slow at the moment.
[10:44] <odony> jtv: funny thing that the oldest ones in Needs Review seem to be one of ours
[10:45] <jtv> Yes — never approved because they had unwanted country/region codes in their filenames.
[10:45] <jtv> Deleting a bunch of those might speed things up for everyone.  :)
[10:45] <odony> jtv: yes, I should definitely be doing that
[10:48] <odony> jtv: the CC code in the PO name isn't bad, is it? if we have local variations of some languages that's the correct name, isn't it?  e.g. es.PO for Spanish and es_CR.po for Costa Rican Spanish
[10:50] <jtv> It's not “bad” in the sense of technically incorrect, but it is “bad” in the sense of inconvenient.  Since you _generally_ won't want such regional variations (because it fragments your translation effort, and because it overlaps with the region-less language codes) those variations are considered inactive.
[10:50] <jtv> So translations won't be approved for them by default.
[10:51] <odony> jtv: I see... the thing is, our community insists that these languages need specific variations, and they make merge proposals with these variations
[10:51] <jtv> You *can* approve them manually if you're sure that's what you want, and once you've done that, a later upload with the exact same path will be approved automatically.
[10:51] <jtv> But that does mean that you need to approve them.
[10:51] <jtv> Custom language codes _may_ help you get around this.
[10:52] <jtv> It's a bit embarrassing because I wrote them myself; I don't remember whether they do.
[10:52] <odony> jtv: :D
[10:52] <jtv> It may be possible to create a custom language to map, say, es_CR to Costa-Rican Spanish (which, yes, is just a duplicate of the normal mapping) and the queue gardener may then understand that you do want that language.
[10:53] <jtv> Although generally what we've seen is that even the Spanish translators manage to keep their language unified.
[10:53] <odony> jtv: good to know, might try that, but indeed we should try to avoid it
[10:54] <odony> jtv: Actually we have a special way to handle translations:   when a user decides to use the Costa Rican translations for instance, we will still load all missing ones from the es.po, which is a kind of "translation inheritance"
[10:54] <odony> jtv: I don't suppose there is any such notion in Launchpad
[10:54] <jtv> Not dynamically; not in the same way we share translations between series.
[10:54] <jtv> We do, however, have the “Using <other language> as a guide” option in the UI.
[10:55] <jtv> So if you translate to es_CR, you can pick Spanish there and you'll get the Spanish translations as automatic suggestions.
[10:55] <jtv> In most cases I suspect the translator can just click on the right one.
[10:55] <odony> jtv: indeed, but as it doesn't actually share them, translators would still need to do them one by one
[10:56] <jtv> What we've found sometimes with large communities is that you get people treating these more subtle distinctions between languages as a license to re-word everything.
[10:56] <odony> jtv: given that we have 14k+ terms to translate, they usually prefer to duplicate the es.po files in a merge proposal, and then work from there
[10:57] <odony> license to re-word everything indeed... that might be the case for us too... though I think there are cases where they do really need to change a few words..
[10:57] <jtv> I suppose it makes sense; theoretically you could also leave most strings untranslated and have the user's system fall back to the "mother language" at runtime, but then we don't have any way of tracking which ones have been reviewed.
[10:57] <odony> specific legal and accounting terms for example....
[10:57] <jtv> Yes, you guys are just about the only project I've seen that really needs that, and handles it well.
[10:57] <odony> jtv: yes that's what we do too, but then the statistics and reviews are all wrong on LP ;)
[10:58] <jtv> Your situation is a bit unusual in that it's relatively rare for open-source projects to interact quite so much with real-world things that depend on countries.
[10:59] <jtv> Laws and taxes, for instance.
[10:59] <odony> jtv: true... we're certainly quite specific in that fashion
[11:00] <jtv> For other projects, I would say those differences are basically cosmetic (with the exceptions of pt_BR/pt and the two main versions of written Chinese).
[11:00] <odony> jtv: I would imagine so, indeed
[11:01] <jtv> You've got a bunch of localization projects that really are for countries.  Which is good and proper, but sometimes a bit confusing because so many other people register their own projects just to translate somebody else's project to a new language!
[11:01] <odony> but for us, even Belgium French has a few noticeable differences from France French in accounting terminology, making some features unsuited for the other country without the proper translation care
[11:01] <odony> yes, it can be quite confusing
[11:02] <jtv> Yes, I've seen the uploads (and spent many hours approving them :)
[11:02] <odony> :-/
[11:02] <jtv> Don't worry about it.  We want your project to run smoothly, although we're limited in what we can do in terms of engineering because it's such an isolated use-case.  I'd definitely give the custom language codes a try.
[11:03] <odony> do you know if launchpadlib would let me manage the translation imports programmatically?
[11:03] <odony> I've seen something about import queue items in the API ref, but not sure I can alter anything from there
[11:03] <jtv> I believe the Ubuntu folks have been doing something like that.  Let me have a look at the code.
[11:03] <odony> jtv: thanks!
[11:05] <jtv> odony: ah, I'm being silly.  The UI has an ajax-y little pop-up status selector on the import queue entries.
[11:05] <jtv> You get those too, right?
[11:05] <jtv> Those use the very same API, from your account.  So yes, you can do that.  :)
[11:06] <odony> jtv: yes I see them for our own import items
[11:07] <odony> jtv: so it means that's automatically exposed via launchpadlib? great!
[11:07] <jtv> Yes.  But you still shouldn't _need_ to, so it'd be nice if we could figure out why it's not happening automatically.
[11:08] <odony> jtv: sure :-)  But I can at least clean up past years of old imports without having to ask anyone to click through thousands of Needs Review items
[11:08] <jtv> \o/
[11:09] <odony> jtv: :D
[11:10] <jtv> The code for this is massively convoluted; you can see it in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/files/head:/lib/lp/translations/model/translationimportqueue.py (may need a reload)
[11:10] <odony> jtv: is there anything I can do to help find out why the gardener would not automatically process our PO files? like upload some test POs or something?
[11:11] <jtv> No need, thanks.  It would probably introduce more unknowns, making it easy to miss the real problem.
[11:11] <jtv> At the moment the queue gardener is taking more than an hour to run, and one run this morning failed.  Still, I'd expect some progress by now.
[11:12] <jtv> (The failure may simply have been because it got interrupted by an upgrade.)
[11:13] <odony> thanks for the link to the code!
[11:15] <odony> jtv: looking at _attemptToApprove() it looks like the Needs Review status is not permanent but only the initial one?  or is it permanent if the "No import target selected yet." message is displayed?
[11:16] <odony> jtv: anyway, don't let me bother you with questions about the code.. sorry ;)
[11:24] <jtv> odony: you put your finger on one of the most essential aspects of the whole thing.  Needs Review is the initial status, and it's up to the gardener to come up with something more definite later.
[11:28] <odony> jtv: aah, so I can't really know if a given (recent) import is permanently stuck in Needs Review or simply waiting for some gardener love... can I?
[11:29] <jtv> odony: exactly!  Even if we could decide it that moment, a human action could change everything.
[11:29] <jtv> That's why the gardener just keeps trying.
[11:32] <aboudreault> could you push a build before a little bit in the queue? just wondering :/
[11:33] <aboudreault> Would have like to get the package build and published for 8HAM.... for a client.. but look like the system is busy :(
[11:33] <odony> jtv: so cleaning up our Needs Review mess in the global queue would really help everyeone... but at the same time a single human action (or import queue patch) could automatically fix them all too... cool :)
[11:34] <jtv> odony: from a server's perspective, it's all one big mess, typical of us biological meatbags.  But yes, the code is pretty smart in some ways even if it's convoluted in others.
[11:35] <odony> jtv: sounds familiar ;)
[11:35] <jtv> :)
[11:39] <aboudreault> damn.. it has been push from Start in 2 hours to 3 hours. hehe
[11:41] <jtv> odony: I'll need to step out for a bit now, and unfortunately I don't have a lot more time to look into the non-approval mystery.  One thing I do note from the logs is that because of the interruption it's _possible_ (the information is a bit sketchy) that the gardener simply hasn't gotten around to your uploads yet.
[11:43] <odony> jtv: that could make sense.. and your explanation for the forced approval of all country-specific PO files reminded me that it is usually only country-specific files that I see sitting in the queue
[11:43] <jtv> Yeah, those are just a bit more difficult because of what we discussed.
[11:44] <odony> jtv: so it could simply be that we should just wait until the normal translations are imported, and I will handle myself the country-specific ones
[11:44] <odony> jtv: thank you very much for your help and kindness!
[11:44] <jtv> No need to keep the one waiting for the other; they are decoupled.  I'd try the custom language codes.
[11:44] <jtv> Best of luck, I've always enjoyed watching your project in action!
[11:44] <odony> jtv: thanks :)
[11:45] <odony> jtv: I will be sure to try the custom codes too
[11:58] <jtv> odony: only back in for a few seconds, but: there's been progress!
[11:58] <jtv> The gardener just completed a full run.
[11:58]  * jtv is out again
[12:52] <rindolf> Hi all.
[12:52] <rindolf> How do I checkout lp:inkscape using http:// or https:// ?
[13:07] <rindolf> Anyone?
[13:08] <wgrant> rindolf: lp: will use HTTP by default, unless you've run bzr lp-login
[13:08] <bigjools> rindolf: if you have no launchpad id configured, bzr branch lp:inkscape will DTRT
[13:08] <wgrant> Otherwise you can use the direct HTTP URL: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk
[13:29] <odony> jtv: yay, our intuition was correct, and indeed now we only have 23 Needs Review left in openerp-web series 6.1, all of them are country-specific, so I'll try custom language codes to fix it now :)
[13:30] <jtv> odony: wasn't an intuition — I was pointing out that it was possible, and I merely had no other guesses left.  :)
[13:31] <odony> jtv: hehe
[16:44] <elopio> Hello.
[16:45] <elopio> is there a way to receive bug mail on a different email address?
[16:53] <mgz> yes, click on the yellow warning icon next to 'Email' on your user page
[16:54] <mgz> that will take you to /~yourname/+editemails where you can add another address and pick what subscriptions go where
[17:00] <elopio> mgz, I can add an email, but all notifications will go there, the ones from answers and code.
[17:01] <elopio> the idea is just to filter the bug mail to a different address.
[17:01] <mgz> yeah, I don't think you can split email about bugs from email about code reviews.
[17:03] <elopio> webm0nk3y ^^^^
[17:04] <elopio> webm0nk3y: I would go with an email filter that forwards and deletes bug mail.
[17:04] <webm0nk3y> elopio: what I did was set my default email as the only i wanted to get bugs and then change all my subscriptions to go to a different email
[17:04] <webm0nk3y> elopio: you can't really control bug email specifically
[17:05] <webm0nk3y> Hi launcpad team, the email I sent to everyone was sent when i clicked on a 'contact administrators of this list to request a change." I did not send it to the entire list.
[17:05] <webm0nk3y> s/launcpad/launchpad
[17:05] <webm0nk3y> czajkowski: ^^
[17:07] <elopio> webm0nk3y: how did you do that first thing?
[17:07] <elopio> "set my default email as the only i wanted to get bugs"
[17:07] <webm0nk3y> elopio: I have 5 emails registed in launchpad
[17:07] <webm0nk3y> elopio: I change my default contact email to be the one i want bugs to go to
[17:08] <elopio> webm0nk3y: ah, ok. But you'll also get answers notifications and other stuff.
[17:09] <webm0nk3y> elopio: yep... a sad side effect
[17:10] <elopio> webm0nk3y: or a nice feature request :)
[19:17] <zyga> hi
[19:18] <zyga> I think something is wrong with launchpad merge proposals
[19:18] <zyga> anyone interested looking at my merge request to see if I'm not missing something obvious?
[19:23] <zyga> er, false alarm, wrong project, wrong brnach


[15:29] <eamonnmr> Anyone running Steam or Lutrus on Lubuntu? Does that work or do I need to install Gnome
 eanmonnmr I've seen several videos on youtube of people doing it, /me haven't done it
[20:26] <Guest_6> Greetings.
[20:26] <Guest_6> Does anyone have experience with VLC crashing Lubuntu?
[20:27] <wxl> which version?
[20:27] <Guest_6> 18.04
[20:28] <wxl> old huh :/
[20:28] <Guest_6> I installed using synaptic package manager, completely uninstalled and installed via terminal.  Same crash result.
[20:29] <Guest_6> 18.04.3 LTS
[20:30] <wxl> so you're just opening vlc on its own and not opening a particular file?
[20:30] <Guest_6> yes
[20:30] <wxl> i see no bugs here (limited to those tagged with bionic) that include such a description
[20:30] <wxl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_com
[20:30] <wxl> menter=&field.subscriber=&field.tag=bionic&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.upstream_target=&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.
[20:30] <wxl> used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on
[20:31] <wxl> omg
[20:31] <Guest_6> It will use up the entire swap file, crash, with the error message that is has run out of memory
[20:31] <wxl> launchpad i hate you XD
[20:32] <wxl> https://v.gd/tLekNk
[20:32] <wxl> i've not heard of anyone having problems with newer versions, either. might be better to go with a newer version anyways.
[20:33] <wxl> is there a crash report in /var/crash?
[20:33] <wxl> do you get any output when running in terminal?
[20:33] <Guest_6> running vlc from terminal gives an error and goes on to say it is ignoring it
[20:34] <wxl> which error?
[20:34] <Guest_6> where is that logged?
[20:34] <wxl> it's not necessarily logged. the output itself may be the only indication of the error.
[20:34] <Guest_6> ah
[20:35] <Guest_6> well if I start it up I will have to wait about 5 minutes for it to crash before I can back to you
[20:35] <wxl> it takes 5 minutes to crash? with you just sitting there idling?
[20:35] <Guest_6> yes, watching a solid HD light
[20:35] <wxl> are you limited on memory?
[20:35] <Guest_6> no
[20:36] <Guest_6> on boot I only use ~300m
[20:36] <Guest_6> out of 1.5Gb
[20:37] <Guest_6> HTOP reveals that it slowly uses all the RAM and then the swap
[20:38] <wxl> yeah it's weird that i can't find any similar bug report
[20:38] <Guest_6> I'll run it to get the crash msg.  brb in about 5 minutes
[20:38] <wxl> ok
[20:50] <Guest_6> (vlc:2555) dbind-warning** <IP_ADDRESS>7:  Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown:  The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files  Qapplication:  invalid style override passed, ignoring it.
[20:50] <Guest_6> that was the error in terminal
[20:51] <wxl> yeah sadly that's not that big of a deal
[20:51] <Guest_6> After about 5 minutes I get vlc terminates because of memory
[20:51] <wxl> is there an error in /var/crash?
[20:51] <Guest_6> let me look
[20:51] <wxl> s/error/report/
[20:52] <Guest_6> uh...yeah.  Its huge.  How do I post that here?
[20:53] <wxl> !pastebinit
[20:53] <wxl> but
[20:53] <wxl> there may be some private memory information in there
[20:53] <wxl> so you might not want to
[20:54] <wxl> you can file a bug with it though that will set it to private
[20:54] <Guest_6> This is a fairly fresh install
[20:55] <Guest_6> I don't see anything upon first glance that would compromise this PC
[20:55] <wxl> you could do `ubuntu-bug /var/crash/filename`
[20:58] <Guest_6> installing pastebin
[21:02] <Guest_6> Here is what I got using your last suggestion:
[21:02] <Guest_6> (apport-gtk:1776): dbind-WARNING **: 16:00:11.861: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service filesGtk-Message: 16:00:14.441: GtkDialog mapped without a transient parent. This is discourage
[21:02] <Guest_6> and....
[21:03] <Guest_6> the vlc memory error even though I have rebooted and not started vlc
[21:03] <Guest_6> I've used VLC for years without a problem.  This is out of left field for me.
[21:04] <Guest_6> why would the "ubuntu-bug" command cause the same memory error as the starting vlc?
[21:11] <Guest_6> Thank you for your time
[21:11] <Guest_6> I will be back after I play around with it a bit more tomorrow.


[12:33] <jronnblom> mralpahbet: try disabling tcp segementation offload on the host that is running vmware. Had a problem with very slow net performance and tso off did cure the problem. At longshot but... ethtool -K eth0 tso off
[12:33] <jronnblom> might also test with  ethtool -K eth0 tx off and ethtool -K eth0 sg off but that was'nt needed for me
[01:37] <mralphabet> jronnblom: I get "Cannot set device tcp segmentation offload settings: Operation not supported"
[01:37] <mralphabet> from your first command
[01:40] <mralphabet> I get Operation not supported from all three commands
[03:53] <oren> hi all. i am new to Ubuntu. just installed the desktop.
[03:54] <oren> does anyone uses the server?
[03:57] <oren> what is the most used server in production environment?
[03:57] <oren> i assume that it's some kind of linux. but which one?
[03:57] <owen1> hi all. is there anyone here?
[03:59] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Yes, N/A, N/A, yes.
[04:10] <owen1> what do u mean N/A?
[12:04] <jronnblom> mralphabet: I suppose your hardware doesn't support tcp segementation offload then. I have used this on broadcom and intel nics
[12:08] <jronnblom> and also on my nvidia nic
[12:09] <jronnblom>  ethtool -k eth0 should give you some info about the current state of among other things the tso


[22:57] <xreal> I friend gave me his 7-year-old Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro notebook. It's running Windows XP, but I want to run Lubuntu on it. After inserting the stable x86-CD, it just hangs with the Lubuntu logo on it... Do I need an older version or some drivers?


[02:03] <ZorroDaCat> hi guys
[02:06] <ZorroDaCat> I was wondering how I can help your project.  But this time of day only Asia/Australia/NZ is online :)
[02:42] <ZorroDaCat> ok thanks
[02:42] <ZorroDaCat> np
[02:43] <duflu> ZorroDaCat: You are free to dive into the code and start hacking ideas. Although we would also appreciate some work on tidying up and triaging the bug backlog bugs.launchpad.net/mir
[02:44] <duflu> ZorroDaCat: http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/index.html
[02:44] <ZorroDaCat> im from Montreal...GMT-5 (NYC time) .... Thanks I'll check that out and come back
[02:45] <duflu> Nice place. The team was there for a meeting last year
[02:49] <ZorroDaCat> Should I use the latest 17.04 (Zesty Zapus) to get in sync with all you guys..?? Yeah cool place..but still winter here...
[02:51] <duflu> ZorroDaCat: Yes the unwritten rule is Unity8/Mir development is only active on the current Ubuntu development series. So 17.04 right now
[02:51] <duflu> Although lp:mir does build and run fine in 16.04 still
[02:53] <duflu> And probably 16.10(?). However being neighter LTS nor the bleeding edge 16.10 gets ignored. Which some may find surprising given its the current stable release
[02:53] <duflu> neither :)
[02:53] <duflu> it's
[02:53]  * duflu stops correcting his spelling
[02:54] <ZorroDaCat> ok i need to reinstall my box anyway...was trying KDE5 on Mint 18  (16.04-based)...will switch to pure ubuntu...and follow the rules
[02:59] <ZorroDaCat> do you think it's going to be a display server war with Wayland like beta/VHS back in the days ?
[03:00] <duflu> I don't think it's really a war. People will choose Ubuntu or Fedora or something else. The display server they get is just a consequence of that. So nothing is really new
[03:01] <ZorroDaCat> I see.. but what about nVidia/AMD supporting one or the other in proprietary drivers?
[03:02] <duflu> I think we'll have 100% coverage within a year. You will be able to use any driver with any display server
[03:02] <ZorroDaCat> Wow impressive....I guess both will follow Mir since the most popular distros are all based on ubuntu....
[03:03] <duflu> I don't think Ubuntu actually has that much influence on Nvidia. They are a very big company. However they are slowly working toward interfaces that will allow everyone to play together
[03:04] <duflu> In Mir we're lookin at supporting the proprietary Nvidia driver this year
[03:04] <duflu> It's in progress
[03:05] <duflu> And actually much of the code is already started. You can find it in the source tree as src/platforms/eglstream-kms/
[03:10] <ZorroDaCat> okay.... im just thinking outloud :) intel seems to contribute more and more code the last few years with <intel graphics for linux> initiative
[03:11] <ZorroDaCat> i mean for intel graphics of course
[03:13] <duflu> Certainly Intel is a very big open source contributor. But they have to be if they want to sell hardware
[03:13] <ZorroDaCat> im not a gamer but im thinking about getting a new intel cpu with integrated graphics...i only got an old amd quad core (kabini:low power APU) at the moment...with a gt710 nv card..
[03:14] <ZorroDaCat> yeah
[03:14] <duflu> ZorroDaCat: The nouveau driver is a problem right now for Mir/Unity8. If you can avoid using it please do.
[03:15] <ZorroDaCat> ok i could use the builtin radeon from the APU....np...
[03:15] <duflu> Yeah I think the open source radeon driver is much more solid
[03:17] <ZorroDaCat> i also got my wifes mid-2012 macbook air with intel graphics...but I've never tried linux on it...dunno if she would be happy that I partition/dual boot her laptop , eh LOL :)
[03:19] <ZorroDaCat> btw who makes the best desktop PCs right now for ubuntu...system76?
[03:23] <ZorroDaCat> ok going to bed.....good morning to all of you...thanks again duflu
[03:24] <duflu> ZorroDaCat: Laptops are personal choice :) Later...
[03:25] <duflu> also a personal choice
[03:59] <duflu> RAOF: Can I assume we stopped using connector_id because it's not unique?
[03:59] <duflu> Have I asked this already? Don't remember
[04:00] <RAOF> duflu: I'm not entirely sure whether it's unique or not (it probably is).
[04:00] <RAOF> I stopped using connector_id because it's easier to pass in a drmModeConnectorUPtr.
[04:01]  * duflu wonders where those numbers come from. Maybe dev nodes?
[04:02] <RAOF> They're drm identifiers.
[04:02] <RAOF> They mostly get assigned by drm core when the driver says “and I've got an output”.
[07:52] <hikiko> hello :)
[07:52] <hikiko> alan_g, and other mir people, I dist-upgraded and ran miral-shell and received a segfault, here's the bt:
[07:52] <hikiko> https://pastebin.com/print/CqEL9vZT
[07:53] <hikiko> any ideas if I am missing some package, or what this could be?
[07:54] <hikiko> maybe it's normal to see this when I am not root?
[08:02]  * alan_g looks
[08:06] <alan_g> hikiko: it isn't normal. Are you using miral-shell from the archive or a local build?
[08:06] <hikiko> alan_g, from the repository but when I am root it's fine
[08:06] <hikiko> I am also running on a schroot
[08:07] <hikiko> I don't know if that's relevant
[08:07] <alan_g> what's the commandline?
[08:07] <hikiko> just miral-shell
[08:07] <hikiko> without parameters
[08:10] <alan_g> what is the console output
[08:10] <alan_g> ?
[08:12] <hikiko> https://pastebin.com/raw/vmXKAwZh
[08:12] <hikiko> alan_g, ^
[08:15] <alan_g> hikiko: that looks like a failure to open the X socket - but I don't see how that leads to the backtrace
[08:16] <hikiko> no idea either
[08:16] <alan_g> But then I don't use schroot much
[08:16] <hikiko> alan_g, it shouldn't be schroot
[08:16] <hikiko> because I could start miral-shell before
[08:17] <hikiko> with the same settings
[08:17] <alan_g> Can you start a normal X11 app? Say gedit?
[08:18] <hikiko> yes alan_g
[08:19] <hikiko> everything else is working
[08:23] <alan_g> Does mir_demo_server fail the same way?
[08:23] <hikiko> let me check
[08:24] <hikiko> alan_g, how can I run mir_demo_server?
[08:24] <hikiko> do I need to build mir?
[08:24] <hikiko> or it's somewhere installed?
[08:24] <alan_g> sudo apt install mir-demos && mir_demo_server
[08:25] <hikiko> yes
[08:25] <hikiko> exactly the same message
[08:26] <hikiko> https://pastebin.com/hBxnjgKY <- alan_g mir_demo_server message
[08:27] <alan_g> thanks for confirming that.
[08:28] <alan_g> I don't have a quick solution - can you log a bug (including the schroot setup)?
[08:28] <alan_g> Sorry.
[08:29] <alan_g> The bug should be against Mir.
[08:29] <hikiko> no problem alan_g :) I ll log it in a while, thanks a lot!
[08:29] <hikiko> yes, it's obviously not miral
[08:57] <hikiko> here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1677523
[09:05] <alan_g> hikiko: thanks
[09:15] <hikiko> yw
[10:25] <alan_g> WTF?! I just updated zesty and miral-shell now crashes on startup
[10:25] <alan_g> Server supports 2 of 10 surface pixel formats. Using format: 3
[10:25] <alan_g> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::range_error'
[10:25] <alan_g>   what():  wstring_convert::from_bytes
[10:31] <alan_g> Oh, it's std::wstring_convert<std::codecvt_utf16<wchar_t>>
[10:59] <hikiko> alan_g, yes
[10:59] <hikiko> same here
[10:59] <hikiko> and I have this error:
[10:59] <hikiko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/miral/+bug/1658159
[10:59] <hikiko> although
[11:00] <hikiko> dmz is installed
[11:18] <alan_g> hikiko: I'm working on a fix, but miral-kiosk and 'miral-shell --window-manager tiling' will work in the meantime
[11:18] <hikiko> let me try
[11:19] <hikiko> mmm no
[11:19] <hikiko> alan_g, miral-shell --window-manager tiling doesn't work
[11:19] <hikiko> same error
[11:20] <alan_g> I'm talking about the std::wstring_convert<> error
[11:24] <hikiko> oh ok
[11:25] <hikiko> I'll try to get a look at the other one alan_g it shouldn't happen, I have your fix here
[11:26] <hikiko> maybe I can collect more info if I build mir
[14:20]  * alan_g finds C++ locales and facets less confusing now than at the start of the day. (But still thinks it is too hard.)
[15:01] <bregma> there's a very good reason C++ locales and their facets are rarely used in production code
[19:33] <camako> tjaalton, will X+O be getting the new Mesa as well?
[19:35] <tjaalton> camako: you mean X+Y? yes, but not necessarily the new mir patches
[19:35] <tjaalton> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/ubuntu/updates doesn't have it
[19:35] <camako> tjaalton, xenial+overlay
[19:36] <tjaalton> I don't know
[19:36] <camako> hmm we use that in CI
[19:36] <tjaalton> what's an overlay?
[19:36] <tjaalton> in this context
[19:36] <camako> just the overlay PPA
[19:37] <tjaalton> still a mystery to me :)
[19:37] <tjaalton> this will end up in xenial-updates
[19:37] <camako> tjaalton, ok forget the overlay part :-)
[19:37] <tjaalton> with whatever mir related you need
[19:37] <camako> so it'll be in xenial, correct?
[19:38] <tjaalton> right now it's still using the old patch because the new mir isn't there
[19:38] <tjaalton> yes
[19:38] <tjaalton> some time after zesty is released
[19:38] <camako> Ah ok
[19:38] <camako> thanks
[19:39] <camako> tjaalton, why the dependence on zesty?
[19:39] <camako> just curious
[19:39] <tjaalton> I just want it to be on a release first
[19:40] <tjaalton> and since it's kinda part of the backport stack, just not renamed anymore
[19:45] <tjaalton> actually, there is some pressure to push mesa to -updates earlier
[19:46] <camako> ok


[00:13] <sdh> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Tesco_Every_little_helps
[00:19] <Vadi> Hi all. Just wondering, are there any signature banners available that promote ubuntu?
[01:12] <Vadi> Anyone know?
[09:41] <juliux> katkin_, thanks a lot for the pens
[09:42] <katkin_> juliux: no worries at all - how was Ubucon?
[09:42] <juliux> great
[09:42] <juliux> we had more then 300 visitors
[09:43] <juliux> and we had talks where the room was too small
[09:44] <katkin_> juliux: wow thats fantastic
[09:44] <juliux> i was very impressed by the cleaning up yesterday
[09:45] <juliux> we announced after the last talk that we need some hands
[09:45] <juliux> and in around 15min were more then 50 tabels and alle networcabeld back in the right rooms
[09:46] <juliux> so after 1h was everything in the cars and the rooms were cleaned
[09:48] <juliux> now i have to get the last things from my car to my flat;)
[10:00] <juliux> http://gallery.verwayen.com/ubucon_2007?page=1 <--- there are fotos from the first day and the social event at saturday evening
[10:42] <katkin_> the photos look great and it's so nice to hear that everyone mucked in to help out with the cleaning :)
[11:37] <juliux> katkin_, it looks good that we will have an ubucon next year again;)
[11:38] <katkin_> juliux: excellent news :)
[11:39] <juliux> if there is an ubucon then after the weekend from the .10 release


[18:37] <BobJonkman1> Hi y'all: Just a reminder that the LoCo Council Meeting is in 1.5 hours in the #ubuntu-meeting channel...  If you're available, please pop in to support the ReApproval for Ubuntu-ca
[19:20] <dscassel> BobJonkman1: Are you still unavailable for this?
[20:04] <bregma> the time is nigh
[20:15] <dscassel> The adventure continues!
[20:29] <dscassel> Thanks for the help, bregma :)
[20:51] <bregma> so, now we wait....
[20:54] <SergioMeneses> hi everybody!
[20:57] <BobJonkman1> Hi dscassel bregma; I'm back now.
[20:58] <BobJonkman1> What's this "bug" that was mentioned on #ubuntu-meeting?
[20:58] <BobJonkman1> (and hi to SergioMeneses too - sorry 'bout that!)
[20:58] <bregma> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-locoteams/+bug/1075848
[20:59] <BobJonkman1> ???
[21:01] <bregma> it's a private bug, the bot does not have access
[21:01] <SergioMeneses> BobJonkman1, it is a private bug, that is the reason why lubotu1 can not find it
[21:01] <BobJonkman1> OK, I'll log in and have a look
[21:02] <SergioMeneses> btw, I'm working on it right now (that is the reason of my presence here)
[21:03] <BobJonkman1> Thanx!
[21:03] <BobJonkman1> Yes, I can see it now.
[21:03] <SergioMeneses> BobJonkman1, ;)
[22:01] <asaun> anyone here in Sarnia, Ontario?
[22:03] <dscassel> asaun: Don't think any of our usual regulars are fron Sarnia.
[22:03] <dscassel> That I know of...
[22:03] <dscassel> Closest are probably us in Waterloo.
[22:03] <asaun> dscassel: okay thanks. Thinking of starting a LUG in the area
[22:04] <asaun> cool thanks
[22:04] <dscassel> You totally should!
[22:04] <asaun> i would do a LoCo but Sarnia is small-ish so I think a general LUG would be better
[22:05] <dscassel> If you want advice, I'd join the Ubuntu Canada mailing list and ask around. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ca
[22:05] <dscassel> And KWLUG is friendly too. http://kwlug.org/
[22:05] <dscassel> Ubuntu Canada is largely a subgroup of KWLUG.  You can be both!
[22:05] <asaun> awesome. thanks for the tips!
[22:06] <dscassel> Er, Ubuntu Waterloo, that is.
[22:06] <dscassel> Ubuntu Canada is all us folks on the mailing list and IRC. :)
[22:15] <asaun> cool
[23:01] <asaun> take care


[00:13] <babbageclunk> wallyworld, axw: review please? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7010
[00:14] <wallyworld> ok
[00:16] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: thanks - ended up being a bit stupid
[00:16] <wallyworld> a one liner
[00:17] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: lgtm
[00:17] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yup - the better fix is lots of lines across 3 packages
[00:18] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: thanks
[00:18] <wallyworld> for 2.1 this is fine IMO
[00:30] <axw> babbageclunk: is that change safe for concurrent AddCharmWithAuthorization calls? will two calls to repo.Get end up getting the same bundle, and one will remove it from underneath the other?
[01:19] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: during cloud-init, the proxy settings are only used to write out to ~ubuntu/.juju-proxy
[01:19] <wallyworld> menn0: yeah, that's what i feared
[01:19] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: which is dumb anyway
[01:19] <axw> menn0: no, we do also set them for the cloud-init scripts
[01:19] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: the proxy settings aren't used in any other way
[01:19] <axw> menn0: see `exportedProxyEnv := w.icfg.ProxySettings.AsScriptEnvironment()`
[01:20] <axw> menn0: in cloudconfig/userdata_unix.go
[01:20] <axw> err, userdatacfg_unix.go
[01:20] <menn0> axw: you're right. I missed that the proxy settings were executed
[01:22] <menn0> axw, wallyworld: so the one thing we should fix is that the proxy settings should probably be written out to the global profile (which affects all users) instead of just the ubuntu user
[01:22] <menn0> axw, wallyworld: do you agree?
[01:22] <axw> menn0: seems reasonable
[01:22] <wallyworld> i think so
[01:22] <wallyworld> i wonder why we restricted to ~ubuntu in the first place
[01:22] <menn0> axw, wallyworld: which is fine except maybe for the manual provider
[01:23] <babbageclunk> axw: ugh, you're right. Ok, I'll have to go for the more invasive way.
[01:23] <babbageclunk> axw: thanks though! Luckily the merge failed.
[01:24] <axw> menn0: if you manually provision, you're handing over the reins. I think it's fine to do that. ideally we would be able to undo on agent uninstall tho
[01:24] <axw> babbageclunk: nps
[01:24] <menn0> axw: yep... which should be doable
[01:24] <menn0> wallyworld, axw: it looks like we don't bother with the proxy settings on windows
[01:25]  * menn0 files some bugs
[02:22] <axw> wallyworld babbageclunk: I'm going to be out both standups tomorrow and thursday (dentist, then school assembly)
[02:22] <wallyworld> no worries
[02:30] <axw> wallyworld: seems you were right, LXD talks to the source directly
[02:30] <wallyworld> axw: it was a guess rather than being right :-)
[02:30] <axw> wallyworld: but the client does need to connect to the source and the LXD as well
[02:31] <axw> wallyworld: so I think it's that initial bit where it's trying to get the info that's going to be the problem
[02:31] <wallyworld> right, and that's something we can fix at our end
[02:31] <wallyworld> albeit a bit hackish perhaps
[02:40] <thumper> well... bollocks, and more bollocks
[02:41] <thumper> somehow in my massive pile of changes, I seem to have broken some of the macaroon stuff
[02:41] <thumper> seems that what used to end up having a successful post to /auth/discharge, now gets:
[02:41] <thumper> cannot get discharge from \"https://localhost:35994/auth\": cannot acquire discharge: cannot http POST to \"https://localhost:35994/auth/discharge\": Post https://localhost:35994/auth/discharge: x509: certificate signed by unknown authority
[02:42] <thumper> since this is a test... the tlsConfig should be set to use the CA cert... I think
[02:42] <thumper> but this is in the http bakery code...
[02:42] <thumper> so NIF
[02:42] <thumper> NFI
[02:42]  * thumper diggs through the code changes to see if I have inadvertantly deleted something important
[02:44] <thumper> hmm...
[02:44]  * thumper thinks some...
[02:45] <thumper> hmm.... I have a cunning plan
[02:45] <thumper> hopefully not too cunning...
[02:46] <thumper> gah...
[02:47] <thumper> I think this is another "localhost" != "<IP_ADDRESS>" issue with the bakery apiHost
[02:53]  * thumper stretches his brain
[03:22] <thumper> this may or may not work...
[03:22] <thumper> I'm hoping it will
[03:22] <thumper> it'll save a lot of pain
[03:24] <thumper> yay, that fixed the macaroon issue
[03:24] <thumper> phew
[03:24] <thumper> now for the others...
[03:24] <thumper> I may be able to revert some of these other shitty changes I have done
[03:24] <thumper> reduce the diff size
[03:24] <thumper> hazaah
[03:38]  * thumper afk for a bit -- kid pickup
[04:22]  * thumper-afk headdesks
[04:22] <thumper-afk> oh
[04:22] <thumper> FFS
[04:22]  * thumper takes a deep breath
[04:23] <thumper> was trying to work out why the mutex values I added weren'
[04:23] <thumper> weren't stopping concurrent writes
[04:23] <thumper> then I noticed the reciever wasn't a pointer
[04:23] <thumper> so every method call got its own mutex
[04:23] <thumper> awesome
[04:25] <anastasiamac> nice :( what area r u in?
[04:28] <thumper> rpc/jsoncodec
[04:28] <thumper> it was my doing though, adding the mutex
[04:28] <thumper> because gorilla/websocket has checks for concurrent writes / reads
[04:53] <blahdeblah> thumper: still around?
[04:54] <thumper> kinda
[04:54] <thumper> whazzup
[04:54] <thumper> ?
[04:54] <blahdeblah> remember the "mad-hack" you guided me through when we had missing txn-revnos?
[04:54] <thumper> ah... yeah
[04:55] <blahdeblah> It's just happened to me for the 3rd time in a different environment, with the same charm.
[04:55] <blahdeblah> Wondering if it's worth logging a bug
[04:55] <blahdeblah> (given that it's 1.25.x)
[04:56] <thumper> really? that is kinda batshit crazy
[04:56] <blahdeblah> IKR!
[04:57] <thumper> have you been doing any juju upgrades?
[04:57] <blahdeblah> this is 1.25.6 and has been for quite a while
[04:57] <thumper> hmm...
[04:58] <thumper> is it an environment that is resistent to upgrading?
[04:58] <blahdeblah> Well, between 1.25.7 and 1.25.9, we were quite resistent to upgrading... ;-)
[04:59] <blahdeblah> I don't have a problem with upgrading to 1.25.10, but is that going to fix anything?
[05:00] <thumper> not sure...
[05:00] <thumper> I'd have to go look at the 1.25.6 codebase
[05:01] <thumper> blahdeblah: file a bug with as much info as you have, and I'll take a look to diagnose tomorrow
[05:01] <thumper> it is possible that 1.25.10 will fix, but it probably makes sense to look
[05:01] <thumper> if I can't find a good answer, at least we can write that on the bug
[05:01] <blahdeblah> thumper: I kept detailed notes about what we did and last time just stepped through and fixed it
[05:01] <thumper> assign to me too
[05:02] <blahdeblah> So I'm happy to go through again and do the same; or would you prefer I left it until we can dive in further?
[05:10] <thumper> blahdeblah: no, don't wait to fix
[05:10] <thumper> I'll just be reading code
[05:11]  * thumper thrashes his computer some more with a full test run
[05:11] <thumper> babbageclunk, menn0: I found a way around the whole "localhost" != "<IP_ADDRESS>" issue
[05:11] <thumper> much cleaner
[05:11] <thumper> thank god
[05:15] <blahdeblah> thumper: OK - thanks
[05:33] <wallyworld> jam: if you get a chance, i'd appreciate a look at the IngressNetworksForRelation() API implementation in https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7012. For now I just get state.AllIPAddresses() and filter multicast and loopback. I also filter out IPv6 and AWS didn't like it when updating the security groups
[05:38] <jam> wallyworld: looking
[05:38] <wallyworld> thanks
[05:40] <thumper> hey y'all, got a groovey review: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7013
[05:40] <thumper> although babbageclunk did say he'd take it
[05:41] <thumper> given that it is huge
[05:41] <wallyworld> not thaaaaaat big
[05:42]  * thumper is done
[05:43] <thumper> laters folks
[05:54] <mup> Bug #1666396 opened: Missing txn-revnos in mongodb leads to missing status updates <canonical-is> <juju-core:New for thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666396>
[06:53] <axw> anastasiamac: would you please review https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7014?
[06:53] <anastasiamac> axw: in a sec but will :D
[07:01] <jam> axw: "the proxy should reject attempts to connect to its own lxdbr0 address"
[07:01] <jam> axw: I'm not sure that should be "the proxy should"
[07:02] <axw> jam: it should :)  what isn't clear?
[07:02] <axw> jam: the idea is to show that no_proxy is working
[07:02] <jam> axw: so you said the host's IP address on lxdbr0 is <IP_ADDRESS>, and then you set the proxy as <IP_ADDRESS> if the proxy is rejecting attempts to connect to that address
[07:03] <axw> jam: I did also test without no_proxy to show that it *does* fail
[07:03] <jam> then nothing can talk to the proxy
[07:03] <axw> jam: specifically, it should reject attempts to connect to <IP_ADDRESS> *through* the proxy
[07:03] <axw> I'll reword
[07:03] <jam> axw: k, that could be spelled a bit clearer
[07:04] <jam> cause I'm pretty sure you're connecting *to* the proxy via that IP :)
[07:16] <jam> axw: ugh, just spent 10 minutes searching for the right version, cause we have "github.com/juju/juju/utils/proxy" *and* "github.cqm/juju/utils/proxy"
[07:16] <axw> jam: heh yeah :/
[07:17] <jam> axw: we should probably update that code to support CIDR notation
[07:18] <jam> I see a fair bit of stuff that plays games with the strings instead of using net.SplitHostPort, etc.
[07:19] <jam> axw: hasPort() => strings.LastIndex(':') > strings.LastIndex(']')
[07:19] <axw> jam: would be nice, but I don't think $no_proxy supports CIDR normally?
[07:19] <jam> seems ... fishy
[07:20] <axw> jam: it does a bit. I think it was lifted from net/http
[07:20] <jam> axw: yeah, looking at docs it seems it is intended to support domain suffixes instead of IP prefxies
[07:20] <jam> prefixes
[07:38] <wallyworld> axw: your PR relies on having env vars for proxies to use in the CLI command. and uses model config for the agent related stuff. IIANM. Is that an issue that these 2 sources could be out of sync?
[07:57] <menn0> axw, jam: the fishy string monkeying in the net/http proxy handling code has been fixed in recent versions of the Go stdlib
[07:58] <jam> menn0: sounds like we should update our fork
[07:59] <jam> wallyworld: I'm somewhat ok with that. "What are the PROXY settings *of my laptop* is not the same as what are the PROXY settings for my cloud"
[07:59] <menn0> jam: our fork in gh/juju/juju/utils/proxy does the right thing I believe
[07:59] <jam> menn0: hasPort still does strings.Find
[07:59] <jam> sorry strings.LastIndex
[08:00] <menn0> jam: ok right. well in Go 1.6 it's much worse :)
[08:00] <wallyworld> jam: yeah, that does make sense, but it can lead to confusion for local lxd cloud where everything runs on same host
[08:00] <menn0> jam: the code looks like current master
[08:00] <menn0> (Go master)
[08:00] <menn0> I believe
[08:01] <jam> menn0: net.http.ResetCachedEnvironment()
[08:01] <jam> seems to be a thing
[08:02] <menn0> jam: only in an export_test.go
[08:02] <jam> yeah
[08:02] <jam> I just tracked that down
[08:02] <jam> blah
[08:02] <menn0> hence all the trickery
[08:02] <jam> menn0: one of those "if its useful in tests, it would *probably* be useful in production for other people"
[08:03] <menn0> jam: indeed :)
[08:03] <jam> nobody would ever change proxy settings on the fly, right?
[08:10] <axw> wallyworld: that's existing behaviour, didn't want to muck with it right now
[08:10] <wallyworld> no worries, it does make sense that that's what it needs to be
[08:10] <axw> wallyworld: i.e. we previously would have honoured $http_proxy in the client, but not used http-proxy from --config in the client
[08:11] <wallyworld> we should make sure doc is clear
[08:11] <wallyworld> and maybe print a message if there are differences when using local provider or something? maybe that's overkill
[08:20] <axw> jam: thanks for the review
[08:21] <axw> wallyworld: we could print out what proxy settings are detected, might be useful. but not in this PR
[11:51] <perrito666> does anyone know if tim replicated https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1634178 ?
[11:51] <mup> Bug #1634178: login doesn't prompt password <ci> <intermittent-failure> <jujuqa> <login> <juju:In Progress by thumper> <juju 2.0:Won't Fix> <juju 2.1:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634178>
[11:57] <wallyworld> jam: thanks for review, i've replied to comments etc. i'll take another look, but I could not see subnets being populated from the provider at all - the provider (the aws one I looked at) seemed to populate only the ipadresses collection
[11:58] <jam> wallyworld: the provider isn't populating subnets, that's the discussion I had with you
[11:58] <jam> wallyworld: the ipaddresses is only being populated in 2.1 by the JUju machiner watching the local ip devices
[11:58] <wallyworld> jam: oh, i thought we said maas and aws did (via their NetworkInterface implementation
[11:58] <jam> wallyworld: but you're missing a bunch of the information, like all the subnets that will be used in the next add-unit
[11:59] <jam> wallyworld: they aren't?
[11:59] <jam> aws and MAAS should be
[11:59] <wallyworld> not that i saw - i traced the code and it all seemed to point to ipaddresses being poulated
[11:59] <wallyworld> i'll need to look again
[11:59] <wallyworld> i started using AllSubnets() and it never seemed to get populatred
[11:59] <jam> wallyworld: all of the "juju deploy --bind space" stuff requires subnets to have values
[11:59] <wallyworld> hence i looked at the code and saw ipaddresses
[12:00] <wallyworld> ok, i'll take another look
[12:00] <wallyworld> i may have misread something
[12:09] <wallyworld> jam: i'm looking at the discover spaces worker. that seems to want to update the subnets collection, right?
[12:10] <jam> wallyworld: yeah
[12:10] <wallyworld> jam: but aws provider does not support spaces discovery
[12:10] <wallyworld> so maybe it's only maas that will have subnets collection populated
[12:11] <jam> wallyworld: so for AWS, you do manual "juju add-space" and "juju add-subnet" if you want to use "juju deploy --bind", because we don't know what subnet is in what space if you don't tell us.
[12:11] <wallyworld> jam: right, so that screws up the firewaller and cmr
[12:11] <wallyworld> we want cmr to work without adding spaces
[12:11] <wallyworld> without requiring spaces
[12:12] <jam> wallyworld: so update the discovery mechanic to record subnets without requiring spaces
[12:12] <jam> wallyworld: its still *far* better
[12:12] <jam> else you run into "what machines have I actually deployed so far"
[12:12] <jam> instead of "what subnets could be in use as soon as I add-unit"
[12:12] <wallyworld> right, i didn't didn;t think i needed to do that as i thought aws provider populated its stuff
[12:12] <wallyworld> i'm just seeing a lot of this code for the first time
[12:12] <wallyworld> not sure what's there already
[12:12] <jam> wallyworld: to be fair, *it should have*
[12:13] <jam> wallyworld: (I only saw concrete code a few months ago as well)
[12:13] <wallyworld> and i'm getting my head across the model etc
[12:13] <jam> wallyworld: well, I'm pretty solid on how things "should" be, and loosely aware of how things *are*. :)
[12:13] <wallyworld> ok, so i'll rework the PR to use subnets; the fallabck to <IP_ADDRESS>/0 will work, and then i'll need to add stuff to the providers
[12:14] <wallyworld> everything is awesome
[12:14] <wallyworld> "how things are" is interesting, a fair bit to do still
[12:14] <wallyworld> it seems
[12:17] <jam> indeed
[12:17] <wallyworld> jam: so would it be reasonable to modify the discover spaces worker to say that is the provder doesn't support spaces discovery, just ask it for all subnets (if it supports that which i think aws does) and whack those in the subnets collection? my fear is that subnets appear to have a space name attribute and that if we record subnets with a blank space name, things will screw up later
[12:21] <jam> wallyworld: we're currently treating "" as the "unknown" space elsewher, I think its fine
[12:24] <wallyworld> jam: ok, i'll see how it goes. i'll look to land this PR after changing t subnets; do a followup which adds the subnet listener to the worker so that as subnets are added async the ingress rules are updated; start fixing the proivders starting with aws to populate subnets info. i wasn't budgeting to that that last bit, nor updating the other providers; hopefully it won't all blow out too much
[13:40] <rogpeppe1> does anyone have strong feelings about removing colors from vanilla loggo and putting them into a separate package under utils?
[13:41] <rogpeppe1> we've had problems with all our services producing unparsable logs because of the default behaviour
[13:41] <rogpeppe> and i don't think it's right that a low level logging package should be pulling a bunch of special dependencies for that purpose
[13:43] <perrito666> as long as you dont break juju default behavior
[13:43] <rogpeppe> without colors, loggo has no external dependencies. with them, it depends on 6 large external repositories
[13:43] <rogpeppe> perrito666: we'll change juju to use the colour writer
[13:44] <rogpeppe> perrito666: its behaviour won't change until the loggo dep is updated in juju
[13:44] <perrito666> rogpeppe: wel without colors I would not use juju logger :p so they make sense to me
[13:44] <perrito666> rogpeppe: I dont have objections then
[13:44] <rogpeppe> jam, wallyworld: ^ ?
[13:45] <perrito666> rogpeppe: I would feel better if you enlisted the opinion of thumper since he implemented the colour fancines
[13:45]  * perrito666 wrote color in brit english just for rogpeppe
[13:46] <rogpeppe> perrito666: ok, i'll post a mail to the list
[13:46] <wallyworld> rogpeppe: yeah, best tto ask thumper; i do see you have a point though
[13:46] <rogpeppe> perrito666: i never see thumper in my time zone
[13:47] <perrito666> rogpeppe: yes, he seems to be in the exact oposite, would you like for me to ping him so he answers your mail promptly?
[13:47] <rogpeppe> perrito666: please
[13:47] <perrito666> rogpeppe: noted
[13:47] <rogpeppe> perrito666: ta
[13:47] <rogpeppe> perrito666: i'm sure he'll see my mail to the list anyway
[13:47] <perrito666> rogpeppe: certainly just making sure he answers asap
[14:02] <rogpeppe> perrito666: i've sent a message to the list
[14:02] <perrito666> rogpeppe: tx, I added an item to my todo to talk to thumper as soon as he says good mornig
[14:03] <rogpeppe> perrito666: thanks!
[15:16] <perrito666> jam: ping me if you are back around
[18:55] <cmars> all right, i forget, if i'm going to propose a PR into juju, what should I clone off of / propose merging with? master? develop? staging? whaaa?
[18:55] <perrito666> cmars: hard question
[18:55] <cmars> lol
[18:56] <perrito666> I believe it would be safe to branch staging and propose into develop
[18:56] <cmars> perrito666, ok, thanks!
[18:57] <perrito666> cmars: although you might want to ask someone else too, I can never recall if staging is up to date with 2.1
[18:57] <perrito666> sinzui: ?
[18:58] <sinzui> perrito666: cmars, for the last 10 days, staging and master have been getting develops blesses. staging is testing the bless develop got a few hours ago.
[18:59] <sinzui> perrito666: cmars staging/master is NEVER a stable branch. 2.1 and 2.0 are their own histories...
[18:59] <sinzui> which makes you wonder about the intent to always release off og master
[19:01] <cmars> hmm
[19:01] <cmars> i'll start with staging and cherrypick it wherever it needs to go
[19:57] <babbageclunk> morning!
[19:58] <perrito666> babbageclunk: morning
[20:10] <babbageclunk> perrito666: feel like a fairly easy review? https://github.com/juju/charmrepo/pull/110
[20:13] <thumper> well.... shit
[20:17] <perrito666> thumper: ah, one of those mornings
[20:17] <perrito666> thumper: btw, there is a rogpeppe mail that is pretty much just for you
[20:17] <perrito666> babbageclunk: if you can hold until I return from the supermarket ill gladly review that
[20:19] <perrito666> also if any of you is very familiar with how juju handled tools in 1.25 there is someone needing help in the private channel :)
[20:19] <babbageclunk> perrito666: dude, if you don't want to just say so. ;)
[20:19] <babbageclunk> thumper: feel like a fairly easy review? https://github.com/juju/charmrepo/pull/110
[20:20] <thumper> perrito666: saw it
[20:20] <thumper> babbageclunk: how about a call, you can explain you change, and I need a teddy bear
[20:26] <babbageclunk> ok
[20:26] <babbageclunk> thumper: ^
[20:26] <thumper> babbageclunk: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/lol-wat
[20:43] <perrito666> back
[21:53] <wallyworld> menn0: re bug 1666660 - normally we remove the primary document (the model) before any satellite documents. I assume that will be the focus of your fix?
[21:53] <mup> Bug #1666660: list-models sometimes errors after a migration (before model has been removed) <ci> <model-migration> <juju:New for menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666660>
[22:06] <menn0> wallyworld: I'm not working on that at the moment and haven't got a specific solution in mind
[22:07] <wallyworld> menn0: no worries, was just curious based on the description
[22:07] <menn0> wallyworld: looking at removeAllModelDocs, it removes the model doc last
[22:07] <menn0> wallyworld: which will be the problem
[22:07] <wallyworld> yep
[22:07] <menn0> wallyworld: at the point it's called the model is marked Dead
[22:08] <menn0> wallyworld: I suspect that model listing and lookup should avoid Dead models
[22:08] <wallyworld> we've had similar issues in the past with other entity->subordinate object relationships
[22:08] <wallyworld> yay mgo txns and not being atomic
[22:09] <wallyworld> "txns"
[22:09] <menn0> wallyworld: understood
[22:09] <menn0> wallyworld: in this case I think it makes sense for removeAllModelDocs to remove the model last
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: in case it fails, leaving the model doc behind makes it possible to retry
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: I think GetModel should ignore Dead models
[23:13] <blahdeblah> thumper-dogwalk: Did https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1666396 make sense?  Please let me know if you need any further information.
[23:13] <mup> Bug #1666396: Missing txn-revnos in mongodb leads to missing status updates <canonical-is> <juju-core:New for thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666396>


[02:54] <Oxxy> hi! can someone help me on my problem .. i just cant make my soundcard work.. i dont get any sound :S
[02:54] <Oxxy> i have ubutnu 7,04 and conexant high definition audio sound card included on my toshiba satellite p105 s9337 laptop
[02:55] <jrib> Oxxy: #ubuntu is a better place for support, this channel is rarely active
[02:56] <Oxxy> im trying also there, but no help :S. i mean.. some help but still not working :S
[02:57] <jrib> Oxxy: have you been given the !sound factoid?  That might have some info
[03:04] <Oxxy> wut? sorry im a complete noob, what do i have to do?
[03:08] <nalioth> !sound
[03:08] <ubotu> If you're having problems with sound, first ensure ALSA is selected, by double clicking on the volume control, then File -> Change Device (ALSA Mixer). If that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=DmixPlugin - For playing audio files, see !Players and !MP3
[03:09] <Oxxy> ok.. ill try
[03:09] <Oxxy> thx
[03:09] <Oxxy> woh.. i dont have even a sound icon :S:S:S:S
[03:09] <Oxxy> thats not good i guess.....
[03:09] <Oxxy> i had one... sometime :S
[03:10] <nalioth> that's not a problem, the panel can be manipulated to add/remove icons
[03:10] <Oxxy> oh.. and how do i add the sound icon there?
[03:11] <nalioth> right click the panel
[03:11] <Oxxy> oh i already added it
[03:11] <Oxxy> now i double click and...?
[03:12] <nalioth> double click or right click the sound icon
[03:12] <Oxxy> ok
[03:12] <nalioth> i'm not really good with sound
[03:12] <Oxxy> its ok
[03:12] <Oxxy> if u know anything that could work.. please lets try it
[03:15] <Oxxy> hmm i have the alsa mixer selected.. but still no sound :S
[03:27] <Jordan_U> nalioth, asoundconf list didn't show anything for him when I asked him to run it
[03:28] <Jordan_U> Oxxy, Sorry about that, I was helping other people and forgot about you :)