[00:23] <_mup_> ensemble/new-hook-semantics-5-docs r201 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:23] <_mup_> Addressed review points on formula doc
[06:03] <_mup_> ensemble/new-hook-semantics-5-docs r202 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:03] <_mup_> Better intro for formula section
[07:23] <_mup_> ensemble/yaml-state-node r192 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:23] <_mup_> read/write version of YAMLState
[08:59] <_mup_> ensemble/yaml-state-node r193 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:59] <_mup_> test multiple writes with and w/o reads
[10:24] <_mup_> ensemble/config-state-manager r196 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:24] <_mup_> new YAMLState api changes
[13:30] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r199 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:30] <_mup_> merge state-machine-enhancements [r=niemeyer][f=755062]
[13:30] <_mup_> Adds some additional capabilities to the statemachine used for workflows.
[13:30] <_mup_> Transition aliases, which allowing grouping and addressing of common
[13:30] <_mup_> transitions from different states. It also introduces success transition
[13:30] <_mup_> ids that a transition can use to effect an additional transition upon
[13:30] <_mup_> success.
[13:31] <niemeyer> hazmat: Morning!
[13:31] <TeTeT> kim0: hi, my query for the high level overview is primarily motivated by the questions and mis-conceptions I hear from the UEC students, especially when it comes to virtualization vs cloud computing
[13:31] <niemeyer> hazmat: Feeling better?
[13:31] <hazmat> niemeyer, a bit, more medications to start my day.
[13:31] <niemeyer> Hey, morning TeTeT, kim0
[13:31] <kim0> TeTeT: Yeah .. those believing "put your app on the cloud, and it'll scale like google" :)
[13:31] <kim0> niemeyer: hazmat TeTeT morning :) o/
[13:32] <TeTeT> kim0: think we should address this early on to make sure the scenario for use of ensemble is set right, e.g. expectation management from the start
[13:32] <TeTeT> hi niemeyer
[13:32] <TeTeT> morning hazmat
[13:32] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ouch.. Did you have that kind of issue often when you were a non-veg?
[13:32] <TeTeT> kim0: that, and 'oh, this isn't like vmware at all'
[13:32] <kim0> TeTeT: I agree, Would be awesome if you can start contributing to that too :)
[13:32] <kim0> it seems you hear lots of feedback
[13:33] <kim0> aw I can understand someone's disappointment comparing uec to vsphere
[13:33] <TeTeT> kim0: sure, I'll prepare something. I want to present UEC / ensemble / landscape to our key customer in Germany any time anyway
[13:33] <hazmat> niemeyer, indeed i did, bad allergies some seasons. mostly a factor of location afaict
[13:33] <kim0> Awesome
[13:33] <niemeyer> hazmat: Aw :(
[13:33] <TeTeT> kim0: so for that introduction I'd better come up with something written anyway, which we can then recycle for the docs, I hope
[13:34] <kim0> Absolutely .. sounds good
[13:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: I'll send good energy waves towards you then ;-)
[13:34] <hazmat> niemeyer, thanks :-)
[13:35] <kim0> oh can you do that
[13:35]  * kim0 points the antenna
[13:35] <niemeyer> kim0: ;-)
[13:36] <kim0> I just played with debug-log .. and love it .. except I want to split out text into columns per service unit
[13:36] <kim0> anyone has a magic one liner
[13:36] <niemeyer> kim0: I can certainly try, at least
[13:37] <kim0> if it'll take you more than a couple of mins, I might want to bang my head a bit at it
[13:37] <kim0> niemeyer: ideally .. the line order would be preserved by printing empty lines on columns of service units not executing anything
[13:38] <kim0> i.e. looking at the resulting text table .. you'd easily see the order of events triggering
[13:38] <niemeyer> kim0: No trivial one-liners that I can think of
[13:38]  * kim0 wonders if he spotted a missing unix kung foo tool
[13:39] <kim0> okie .. I'll take a shot then
[13:39] <kim0> probably needs some custom python
[13:41] <hazmat> kim0, there's also several filtering/inclusion options if you want to isolate a particular
[13:42] <hazmat> kim0, do you have an example of what sort of columnization you'd want to see?
[13:42] <kim0> hmm yeah .. those would be great too .. but I'm really more into looking at the big picture now .. just need a prettier big picture to look at :)
[13:42] <kim0> Yeah sure
[13:42] <kim0> cloumn per service uit
[13:42] <kim0> unit* like
[13:42] <kim0> mysql/0  | wordpress/0
[13:42] <kim0> joined | --
[13:42] <kim0> -- | starting db-relation-changed
[13:43] <kim0> something like that I guess would be great
[13:43] <kim0> of course should be tab aligned
[13:43] <kim0> any way .. I'll try it myself a bit
[13:43] <kim0> guess distributed logs weren't that popular 20 years ago :)
[13:44] <hazmat> yeah.. i think thats possible, but possibly we'll end up going very wide. the stdout of the hooks might also interrupt the visual flow
[13:45] <kim0> hazmat: yeah, which is another thing
[13:45] <kim0> currently we have no way to log at different levels from inside hooks right
[13:46] <hazmat> kim0, there is an ensemble-log command available to hooks, but i don't think we currently utilize it, we just capture stdout/stderr of hooks.. at a set log level
[13:46] <kim0> ah .. that'd be great
[13:46] <kim0> to use :)
[13:46] <kim0> wonder if I should add that to the examples/ formulas
[13:47] <hazmat> kim0, sounds good, probably we should also verify its working..
[13:47] <kim0> hazmat: if ensemble-log is used today, can we filter to only see its output and not stdout/stderr ?
[13:48] <hazmat> kim0, also i've noticed that install, start hooks aren't commonly reported, this is as per the async watches and creator thread on this list.. after we fix that up, we should be able to use logs to show people hook sequencing/interaction for a tutorial.
[13:48]  * hazmat checks on ensemble-log
[13:49] <kim0> hazmat: oh that's what I was doing (log sequencing for a tutorial) :) so it's not working now .. I see
[13:51] <hazmat> kim0, minus the install/start its correct
[13:51] <hazmat> looking at the log implementation, it looks like its broken to me
[13:52] <kim0> yummy
[13:52] <hazmat> hmm. maybe not.. the test looks correct
[13:53] <kim0> good then
[13:54] <kim0> can someone exaplin the workflow for editing (or creating new) formula ..
[13:54] <kim0> I suppose I deploy, and it breaks horribly
[13:54] <kim0> how do I fix, and try again
[13:55] <kim0> I hope I dont have to tear down everything for ever changed line
[13:55] <kim0> every*
[13:57] <hazmat> kim0, looks good actually re ensemble-log
[13:57] <kim0> hazmat: great :) thanks
[13:57] <kim0> I will start a branch with nice log messages
[14:17] <hazmat> kim0, we'll have two commands that can assist with this, ensemble formula-upgrade to replace a formula that's in place, and ensemble resolved to correct for any hook errors.
[14:18] <hazmat> kim0, also ensemble debug-hooks for interactive debugging.
[14:19] <kim0> yeah I guess debug-hooks helps with what I need .. will play with that too
[14:19] <hazmat> kim0, there's one missing piece to debug-hook that's still in review... i've kinda let it slide while i was working on upgrades.
[14:19] <hazmat> kim0, re ensemble resolved.. on a hook error, there's a change to an error workflow state within the unit agent (either at a unit or relation level, depending on the hook that fails).
[14:19] <hazmat> the ensemble resolved command will transition back to a known good state, optionally refiring the hook
[14:20] <kim0> hmm that sounds magical :)
[14:20] <hazmat> formula upgrades are only allowed from a unit that's running (ie. not in an error state).
[14:20] <kim0> we'll talk more about it in the meeting I guess
[15:49] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r233 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:49] <_mup_> upgrade unit agent tests, remove duplicate test, add some state assertions, clean up doc strings.
[15:50] <niemeyer> jimbaker: ping
[15:51] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk-merge r185 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:51] <_mup_> merge trunk
[15:53] <jimbaker> niemeyer, hi
[15:54] <niemeyer> jimbaker: nm, already providing a new review
[15:55] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sounds good, hopefully the reworked intro looks good
[15:55] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Actually, can you please roll back that big introduction you added?
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: It doesn't :(
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: There are several issues in there
[15:56] <jimbaker> niemeyer, introductions are always tough
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: and I'm afraid we're getting into a review loop
[15:56] <jimbaker> so it makes sense that it's problematic
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Can you please roll that back and address just the specific issues mentioned in the review?
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: So we can merge
[15:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Feel free to provide another change suggestion later on
[15:57] <jimbaker> everytime i look at the overall intro for ensemble, i think how much it needs to be reworked too
[15:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Some examples:
[15:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: We don't offer total ordering guarantees to the user
[15:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: It's not true that machines and service units have a 1-1 relationship
[15:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: None of the text in the first bullet point is about scalability
[15:57] <jimbaker> niemeyer, this makes sense
[15:58] <niemeyer> jimbaker: It's not true that every event in Ensemble is translated into a hook execution
[15:58] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Etc
[15:58] <niemeyer> jimbaker: I'd really like to merge the main changes which this branch was trying to implement at this point, which is fixing the hook documentation
[15:58] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Rather than stepping through that unrelated review which was introduced post-reviewing
[15:58] <jimbaker> it sounds like i still wasn't careful enough in the descriptions, despite my attempt to do so
[15:59] <jimbaker> so definitely needs another branch to make even more precise
[15:59] <jimbaker> or precise at all
[15:59] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Cool, feel free to push those into another branch
[15:59] <niemeyer> jimbaker: It feels like a good direction, but feels bad to have that in mid-review
[16:00] <jimbaker> ok, i will roll that back. should i simply remove the intro as a whole, just have it start at "this section describes how formulas..."
[16:00] <jimbaker> ?
[16:00] <niemeyer> jimbaker: No, put the version you had previously, and apply the review
[16:01] <niemeyer> jimbaker: There were very simple changes to do only
[16:01] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok, i guess i mixed up what you wanted. so you just wanted the one sentence removed, that's it?
[16:01] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yes
[16:06] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r235 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:06] <_mup_> doc work, from review comments
[16:08] <hazmat> niemeyer, on the formula-upgrade point 9, its seems the right solution then is to bypass the machine formula and just have the unit agent download directly to temp space and extract? there's a few other places where the unit agent pokes outside of its directory (for workflow state state files), and perhaps with on disk hook execution queue in the future.
[16:09] <niemeyer> hazmat: Workflow state should really be within its directory too
[16:10] <hazmat> niemeyer, i've been trying to segment the unit agent state files from the unit itself, ie outside of the unit. so we're saying we want to have all of these files within the unit?
[16:11] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hmm.. will the unit agent run within the unit?
[16:11] <niemeyer> hazmat: Once we have containers
[16:11] <hazmat> niemeyer, its outside the unit
[16:11] <_mup_> ensemble/new-hook-semantics-5-docs r203 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:11] <_mup_> Removed intro for incorporation into a future branch
[16:11] <hazmat> niemeyer, i was planning on using lxc-attach to execute hooks within the container
[16:11] <hazmat> it gave us additional separation from the container, and so i did the same with agent state files.
[16:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: It's not yet clear if that's a good idea or not
[16:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: In either case, units shouldn't be poking in the machine agent directory at least
[16:13] <hazmat> niemeyer, in that case we either have the machine agent download the formula or bypass the formula cache on the machine
[16:14] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, I think it should bypass
[16:14] <niemeyer> hazmat: We have no idea about what the machine agent is doing.. it might decide to clear that directory and remove the formula under our feet
[16:14] <hazmat> niemeyer, it does make the formula-cache on the machine stale.. but if we can live with that..
[16:14] <niemeyer> hazmat: It's as stale as the machine agent decides it to be
[16:14] <hazmat> true
[16:15] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good
[16:15] <niemeyer> hazmat: The point is that this directory is owned by a different process
[16:15] <niemeyer> hazmat: Also, what happens if two different units decide to download the same formula at the same time?
[16:15] <niemeyer> I'll head to lunch.. Ale is waiting
[16:15] <niemeyer> biab
[16:21] <jimbaker> niemeyer_lunch, i have pushed up the change. this removes the new intro and replaces it with the old intro, cutting the first two sentences (didn't seem to make sense to discuss service units at that point)
[16:22] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r236 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:22] <_mup_> download formula upgrade to temp directory.
[16:36]  * hazmat lunches
[16:47] <kim0> when using ensemble-log inside a formula .. do I log at DEBUG level ?
[16:48] <kim0> ensemble-log --log-level DEBUG "foo bar" ?
[16:48] <kim0> I hope to be able to get those messages with debug-log *without* getting stdout/stderr from hooks
[17:06] <kim0> niemeyer: Trying to add proper ensemble-log messages in the example formula .. any comment on ^
[17:07] <niemeyer> kim0: Hmm.. whether it's DEBUG or not depends on the nature of the message
[17:07] <kim0> niemeyer: if it's DEBUG, can I still separate it from stdout though
[17:07] <niemeyer> kim0: Yes, IIRC ensemble-log doesn't print to stdout
[17:08] <kim0> great .. so how do I get debug-log to filter out stdout/stderr
[17:09] <niemeyer> kim0: Hmmm.. I see what you want
[17:09] <niemeyer> hazmat: Do you recall which log-level stdout/err messages get logged as?
[17:12] <kim0> isn't DEBUG the lowest level .. i.e. I hope there's some other way to filter other than by log level?
[17:17] <niemeyer> kim0: Yes, it's the lowest/highest level (depending how one looks at it)
[17:17] <niemeyer> kim0: I don't think I really understand what is the problem you're facing, though
[17:34] <kim0> niemeyer: well I wanted to use ensemble-log from inside formulas, gather those log messages using debug-log, but do not wish them intermingled with stdout/stderr. If you tell me the way to do this, is to log at a loglevel != DEBUG, that's fine I guess .. was just wondering how to do it
[17:37] <niemeyer> kim0: Right, that's what you want to do it.. but what's the background on why you want to do it?
[17:37] <niemeyer> kim0: There's no reason for a hook to expose stdout/stderr besides for debugging/understanding purposes
[17:37] <_mup_> Bug #766241 was filed: Add dummy provider support for port authorization/revocation <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/766241 >
[17:48] <hazmat> niemeyer, debug
[18:02] <kim0> yeah .. it's just that "set -eux" is too noisy!
[18:08] <hazmat> kim0, you can also explicit exclude just the hook output
[18:08] <niemeyer> kim0: Hmmm.. we shouldn't be using x I think
[18:09] <kim0> hazmat: hmm how would I do htat
[18:09] <kim0> niemeyer: yeah I'd think so
[18:09] <hazmat> kim0, ensemble debug-log -x hook-output
[18:09] <kim0> hazmat: does that include stderr ?
[18:09] <hazmat> kim0, yes that's all hook output
[18:09] <kim0> hazmat: oh thanks
[18:09] <hazmat> kim0, checkout out some of the other options on debug-log --help
[18:11] <kim0> hazmat: help message doesn't really make it clear what "log channels" I can include/exclude
[18:12]  * hazmat nods
[18:12] <hazmat> it needs some more examples
[18:12] <hazmat> in the help message
[18:12] <hazmat> and perhaps at least a partial listing of log channels
[18:14] <jimbaker> kim0, set -x is definitely expedient, and it really makes it possible to see what's going on. but if i could just observe the relation settings change in the debug log, that would probably eliminate a lot of debugging statements
[18:16] <kim0> jimbaker: yeah, I'm just using ensemble-log at INFO level for now
[18:16] <jimbaker> hazmat, i think we should also add the relation settings info to ensemble status too, now that we have states there. we can always provide an options flag for what to show
[18:16] <kim0> jimbaker: are you saying, relation setting changes don't go to logs now
[18:16] <kim0> ah yeah
[18:17] <jimbaker> kim0, i don't believe they are otherwise observable. could be wrong :)
[18:17] <kim0> nah :)
[18:17] <hazmat> jimbaker, yeah. it would be nice to have a cli flag to enable that
[18:17] <jimbaker> kim0, but clearly the relation settings, along with the specific hooks firing, are the key to understanding what actually happens
[18:17] <hazmat> kim0, er.. that should be debug-log -x hook.output
[18:18] <kim0> oh ok
[18:18] <kim0> hazmat: indeed at least popular channels should be listed on the help message please
[18:19] <kim0> do we need a bug for showing relation-settings changes in logs .. or is someone on that
[18:20] <jimbaker> kim0, we need a bug for that and in status too i think
[18:20] <jimbaker> (so two bugs)
[18:20] <kim0> so "ensemble status" shows relation settings for every service unit, right?
[18:21] <jimbaker> kim0, it does not yet. but i think it should
[18:21] <kim0> yeah, I meant that's how you'd want it .. cool .. filing
[18:21] <jimbaker> the only consideration here is that there security issues
[18:21] <kim0> ah passwords and stuff
[18:21] <jimbaker> but i think these be addressed later to mask it out properly. any system auditing always has these issues from what i have seen in the past
[18:22] <kim0> hmm ok
[18:22] <jimbaker> not showing it in ensemble status is simply doing it by obscurity anyway
[18:23] <jimbaker> so the good thing about showing it in ensemble status sooner than later is to keep reminding ourselves of this problem ;)
[18:31] <jimbaker> kim0, you might be interested in this intro fragment, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/596140/ - it's not going into the branch lp:~jimbaker/ensemble/new-hook-semantics-5-docs because of its lack of precision is currently misleading
[18:32] <jimbaker> but there's some useful text in there that we may want to incorporate into the ensemble docs, after some more editing
[18:33] <kim0> jimbaker: thanks :)
[18:34] <jimbaker> kim0, re state diagrams - you should be aware of sdedit, if not already - see http://sdedit.sourceforge.net/example/index.html
[18:35] <jimbaker> there's integration with sphinx too
[18:35] <jimbaker> (much like the dot integration)
[18:36] <jimbaker> i could definitely see a script reading the debug log and producing this type of output
[18:37] <kim0> jimbaker: thanks useful info :)
[18:37] <jimbaker> (well not loops, but the example is just an indication of what can be done, if there's data to support it)
[18:41] <_mup_> Bug #766306 was filed: example formulas should use ensemble-log to log useful messages <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/766306 >
[18:41] <niemeyer> jimbaker:   Its purpose is to allow the formula to
[18:41] <niemeyer> 255	+    clean up established state
[18:41] <niemeyer> 256	+
[18:41] <niemeyer> 257	+    The service unit can then clean up any established state.
[18:42] <jimbaker> niemeyer, thanks
[18:43] <niemeyer> jimbaker: No problem, +1 with that
[18:43] <jimbaker> niemeyer, cool, i will get it merged in shortly!
[18:44] <kim0> why doesn't the bot here catch merge proposals :)
[18:44] <jimbaker> kim0, yeah, it's an annoying bug in our mup
[18:45]  * kim0 kicks _mup_
[18:46] <_mup_> Bug #766315 was filed: status should show relation settings <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/766315 >
[18:47] <niemeyer> kim0: Strange problem indeed
[18:48] <_mup_> Bug #766317 was filed: debug-log should show relation settings changes <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/766317 >
[18:48] <kim0> filed the two bugs
[18:54] <kim0> TeTeT: you might enjoy this text too http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/596140/
[18:55] <TeTeT> kim0: looks great :)
[18:55] <_mup_> ensemble/new-hook-semantics-5-docs r204 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:55] <_mup_> Fixed -relation-broken description
[19:07] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r200 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:07] <_mup_> merge new-hook-semantics-5-docs [r=niemeyer][f=756581]
[19:07] <_mup_> Updates the documentation of hooks with respect to the new hook
[19:07] <_mup_> semantic changes. Copy edits the formula section as a whole to clarify
[19:07] <_mup_> how hooks actually execute, and under what conditions.
[19:09] <jimbaker> cool, 200th revision on trunk
[19:11] <kim0> woohoo :)
[19:25] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r237 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:25] <_mup_> add utility workflow function to tell if a unit is running and its state.
[19:26] <hazmat> jimbaker, we're closing on 1k unit tests as well
[19:26] <hazmat> niemeyer, jimbaker, bcsaller standup?
[19:26] <jimbaker> hazmat, sounds good on all counts!
[19:26] <bcsaller> yeah
[19:26] <jimbaker> (so to speak :)
[19:26] <niemeyer> Yep, let's do it
[19:27] <hazmat> bcsaller, jimbaker skype?
[19:28] <bcsaller> I'm on
[19:28] <niemeyer> Up
[19:28] <hazmat> bcsaller, cool, false skype presence info
[19:44] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r238 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:44] <_mup_> clear upgrade before flag before retrieving service formula id, remove executor run lock acquisition when starting
[19:55] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r239 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:55] <_mup_> missing test for is_unit_running
[20:03] <_mup_> ensemble/yaml-state-node r194 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:03] <_mup_> simpler YAMLState
[20:03] <_mup_> reflecting the changes from review this version maintains less internal state
[20:03] <_mup_> additional test of multiple writes
[20:38] <niemeyer> hazmat: There are still many appearances of 'cli' in the file.. we should probably try to put acronyms in capitals in user documentation
[20:38] <hazmat> niemeyer, hmm.. i never considered the possiblity that acronoym would be unknown.
[20:38] <hazmat> fair enough re caps
[20:39] <niemeyer> hazmat: Uh.. I'm not saying it's unknown.. it's just an acronym
[20:39] <niemeyer> hazmat: same way that API is generally capitals
[20:39] <niemeyer> and AWS, etc
[20:44] <_mup_> ensemble/ensemble-resolved r240 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:44] <_mup_> ensemble resolved cli
[20:45] <niemeyer> hazmat: :-)
[20:45] <hazmat> niemeyer, doh. ;-)
[20:45] <niemeyer> hazmat: The branch looks good
[20:46] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. i still need to do an end to end test, but else it should be good.
[20:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: Was a bit overwhelming, and required some morning-level freshness, but mostly because there's a lot there.. was pretty straightforward
[20:47] <hazmat> niemeyer, cool. yeah it grew a bit bigger than i wanted in one branch, but it was getting hard to separate out
[20:48] <hazmat> niemeyer, fwiw, i'm planning on doing the resolved stuff much the same way
[20:48] <hazmat> unit_state.set_resolved_flag(retry).. unit_state.set_relation_resolved_flag(mapping)
[20:48] <hazmat> mapping being relation_state_id: retry_boolean
[20:49] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hmm
[20:49] <hazmat> and then watches on the agent for the unit, and a watch in the lifecycle for the relation
[20:49] <niemeyer> hazmat: Why do we need a flag on it?
[20:49] <hazmat> niemeyer, we don't, probably shouldn't have that in the name
[20:50] <hazmat> looks like i can deal with the ambiguous anonymous relations without issue here
[20:50] <niemeyer> hazmat: I mean.. isn't the fact we have an _error state already indicating a non-resolved state, and thus putting the unit back in running would be the action?
[20:50] <hazmat> niemeyer, i need to signal to the agent that it should take action
[20:51] <hazmat> the resolved stuff triggers the watch which triggers the agent to do some work
[20:51] <niemeyer> hazmat: Won't it notice you changing its state?
[20:51] <hazmat> the workflow transition even sans hook needs to take place on the agent
[20:52] <hazmat> niemeyer, no it is the owner of that data, directly changing the state, could be arbitrary, without the nesc. lifecycle invocations
[20:53] <hazmat> i could genericize it via the workflow state client
[20:53] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ok, sounds good
[20:53] <hazmat> to allow marking generic firing of transitions and recording that as intent to act upon
[20:53] <niemeyer> hazmat: Nah, your idea of a semantically rich request actually feels good
[20:54] <hazmat> niemeyer, cool
[20:54] <niemeyer> hazmat: Otherwise, you're right in that the agent can't do anything more intelligent with the request
[20:54] <niemeyer> hazmat: "Oh, I'm resolving, thus ..."
[20:55] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. or like oh.. my state is stopped now, what does that mean.. where was was i, this is not beautiful house ;-)
[20:55] <hazmat> ^my
[20:55] <niemeyer> hazmat: Right :-)
[21:03] <_mup_> ensemble/ensemble-resolved r241 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:03] <_mup_> add a is_relation_running workflow utility function.
[21:06] <_mup_> ensemble/yaml-state-node r195 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:06] <_mup_> merge trunk
[21:11] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r240 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:11] <_mup_> make sure the upgrade flag presence check is done before we clear the flag.
[21:11] <hazmat> niemeyer, any thoughts on the async watcher and creators stuff?
[21:11] <niemeyer> hazmat: Sorry, what's the context again?
[21:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ah, the email on the list
[21:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: I forgot to reply.. let me look at it again
[21:12] <hazmat> niemeyer, my mail to the list regarding usage patterns for watchers
[21:12] <hazmat> niemeyer, thanks
[21:12] <niemeyer> hazmat: Sorry about that
[21:12] <hazmat> i'm noticing a lot of tests i'm hacking in fire_transition("stop") to stop the background activity so the test doesn't fail because of the async work
[21:15] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r201 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:15] <_mup_> Merge yaml-state [r=niemeyer] [f=758583]
[21:15] <_mup_>
[21:15] <_mup_> Adds a reusable utility for managing access to Zookeeper nodes containing YAML serialized state. The YAMLState object proxies as a Python dict for normal operation. Prior to access instance.read() should be invoked and instance.write() will update the Zookeeper state.
[21:22] <niemeyer> hazmat: Replied
[21:22] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, that sucks
[21:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: I have an idea about a better system to make testing this easier
[21:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: That's the good news.. the bad news is that I don't know how to implement it yet
[21:31] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. i started poking adding something like this but it was getting a little complicated untop of all the work in the upgrade branch.. there's some subtly there.
[21:31] <hazmat> there where one or two tests that error'd out with the change, but i think i'd like to approach in a more systematic way.
[21:32] <niemeyer> hazmat: Like this what, more specifically?
[21:32] <hazmat> niemeyer, i added support to the unit lifecycle start, that it only fired after the unit relations watcher had fired once.
[21:32] <niemeyer> hazmat: I think we may come up with a simpler way to test that kind of logic altogether
[21:33] <niemeyer> hazmat: Which would get rid of all sleeps/waits/etc
[21:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: Higher bandwidth might be nice for that conversation, though
[21:34] <hazmat> niemeyer, agreed, let's do it for tomorrow's standup? or before the standup?
[21:35] <hazmat> i'm making good head way on 'resolved'
[21:35] <niemeyer> hazmat: Might be good to have it separated
[21:35] <niemeyer> hazmat: It may be pretty fast, but it could also take  abit
[21:35] <niemeyer> hazmat: Just as a heads up, when testing we're in control of both the reactor and the zookeeper deployment
[21:36] <niemeyer> hazmat: We should be able to figure if there's something pending to be executed, or if the system is stale for real
[21:37] <niemeyer> hazmat: No deferred calls in twisted's reactor after a ping roundtrip to zookeeper means the system is stale
[21:37] <niemeyer> hazmat: Nothing will happen
[21:37] <niemeyer> I think we can use that to solve those problems
[21:38] <hazmat> niemeyer, in general for sequencing it feels like it would be easier  for tests if the background activity was done after the method completed.
[21:38] <hazmat> at least in a steady state
[21:39] <niemeyer> hazmat: The background processing is always done after the method completed, so I don't see what you really mean
[21:39] <hazmat> inspecting the reactor for latent deferreds, and then doing something with that feels kinda of magical as well
[21:39] <hazmat> niemeyer, well the method could delay its return till the initial invocation of the watcher, at which point its in a steady state, minus any additional test induced state chagnes
[21:39] <niemeyer> hazmat: Well.. it is much less magical to me than arbitrarily saying the event has to happen in a given timeframe when in fact it doesn't
[21:40] <niemeyer> hazmat: The initial invocation of the method has no special meaning, as I pointed out in the list
[21:40] <niemeyer> hazmat: It can be empty, and then can have data 5 milliseconds later
[21:40] <hazmat> the event happens fairly quickly, just typically not before the test exits... part of the problem is arguably that we need to separate our tests a bit more, and not have tests which have relations that are being setup in the background.
[21:42] <hazmat> niemeyer, sure, it can, but the test is explicitly setting up a state, ideally the methods its invoking should be done/current with the state when complete. the test is the state driver/manipulator for changes.
[21:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, exactly.. that "ideally" is the problem.. there's no hard constraint about that
[21:44] <hazmat> a change in data  5ms seconds later in this case is one thats being done by the test, and the test should expect/test for that
[21:44] <hazmat> which is also arguably why the test shouldn't be subclassing something that sets up a relation if doesn't care about it.
[21:44] <niemeyer> hazmat: No questions about that.. doesn't affect the points though
[21:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: The problem is that, e.g., "creation relation" + "set watch on relation" will fire in one way
[21:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: but "set watch on relation" + "create relation" fires in a different way
[21:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: Our system was built in such a way that things work well in both cases
[21:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: Adding special behavior to the first time it fires fails in the second case.
[21:50] <hazmat> the system always reads the current state, and tries to match it. i agree adding semantics to the first invocation feels a bit iffy perhaps.. but the caller knows then that the async watch creator has completed to matching the current state when its done, and that makes some of the tests a bit easier.. i think its something we can solve in practice for a large set of the cases by having the test setup reflect only what the tes
[21:50] <hazmat> t needs.
[21:50] <hazmat> niemeyer, but the problem still exists beyond tests
[21:51] <hazmat> for example the debug-log and debug-hook stuff are setting up watches, and then going about their business, and some information/behavior is lost
[21:51] <hazmat> because by the time those watches have finished, the install and start methods have already executed
[21:51] <niemeyer> hazmat: It makes tests easier and unrealistic..  the first invocation has no special meaning.  It can have state or not, and it should correctly yield the same state with A+B or B+A
[21:52] <hazmat> niemeyer, a phone call would be better
[21:52] <niemeyer> hazmat: There are tons of things which right now simply work because of that
[21:52] <niemeyer> hazmat: Indeed, sorry.. I wanted to give a heads up about the idea and ended up taking your attention
[21:52] <hazmat> and they'll continue to work that way, but certain cases need to know that the async behavior matches the state before continuing
[21:53] <hazmat> no worries, we can discuss in more detail tomorrow
[21:55] <niemeyer> Cool
[21:57] <niemeyer> I'll push some personal stuff now.. want to get a new mgo release out tonight still.  I'm hoping that after some work over the following nights and on the weekend it should be ready to push the prototype needs.
[22:21] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-agent-formula-upgrade r241 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:21] <_mup_> a test was incorrectly setting up the workflow state.
[23:43] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r202 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:43] <_mup_> merge unit-agent-formula-ugprade [r=niemeyer][f=755062]
[23:43] <_mup_> This merge completes the upgrade-formula functionality for ensemble,
[23:43] <_mup_> by implementing the unit agent support for upgrading formulas and
[23:43] <_mup_> executing formula-upgrade hooks. It changes the unit workflow to add
[23:43] <_mup_> a new transition from the started state, that effects an upgrade on
[23:43] <_mup_> the unit. It also adds the notion of out-of-band hook execution on
[23:43] <_mup_> the hook executor for the formula-upgrade-hook to be invoked while
[23:43] <_mup_> the executor is stopped but still queuing new hook executions.
[23:45] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk-merge r186 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:45] <_mup_> merge trunk


[02:07] <Darkseg> Hello
[07:33] <lindol> Um.. Could we connect IPod on My Ubuntu Machine?
[07:34] <lindol> *we -> I
[14:24] <kristi> hello I am having some issues with hulu.com it says that I need to install the HAL package but i dont see the package in the software center


[06:07] <mborzecki> morning
[06:44] <zyga> Hello
[06:58] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[07:03] <zyga> Hey :-)
[07:03] <zyga> Thank you for the archlinux update
[07:05] <mborzecki> zyga: wa debian updated too?
[07:21] <zyga> Yes
[07:41] <mborzecki> heh go linters stopped working when i switched to 1.12
[08:08] <pstolowski> morning
[08:09] <zyga> Hey
[08:33] <mup> PR snapd#6487 closed: interfaces: add new intel-mei interface <Created by mvo5> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6487>
[08:33] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey hey
[08:38] <zyga> 2nd coffee
[08:49] <mup> PR snapd#6554 opened: interfaces/intel-mei: small follow up tweaks <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6554>
[09:01] <zyga> plan for this weekend:
[09:01] <zyga> sleeeeep
[09:01] <zyga> and bike ride
[09:01] <zyga> pedronis: we are all good on 2.37.4 so far
[09:02] <zyga> pedronis: I will work with cachio and mvo next week on ubuntu release and bug gardening
[09:03] <zyga> let's get back to branches and patches
[09:07] <mborzecki> heh, looks like master will be failing with arch due to go1.12 update
[09:08] <zyga> what's the status?
[09:10] <greyback> hi folks, can I get another pair of eyes on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6281 please? I've a jamie +1 already
[09:10] <zyga> certainly
[09:10] <mup> PR #6281: interfaces: add Multipass-support interface <Created by gerboland> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6281>
[09:10] <zyga> looking
[09:11] <mborzecki> zyga: i'll open a PR in a bit
[09:12] <zyga> greyback: I'm going through the review again
[09:12] <pstolowski> pedronis: hey, i'm addressing mvo's comment to #6322 re a new helper; what do you think about applyChanges for its name? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Ngv3yyR6qv/
[09:12] <mup> PR #6322: overlord/hookstate: apply pending transaction changes onto temporary configuration for snapctl get <Complex> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6322>
[09:12] <zyga> greyback: as a general comment please ensure that all questions are answered
[09:12] <zyga> greyback: even if the answer is +1 or done or "no longer applicable"
[09:12] <greyback> zyga: ah ok
[09:12] <zyga> this helps when there are multiple comments
[09:13] <zyga> it is easier to see the status this way
[09:13] <pedronis> pstolowski: looks ok, I would swap its arguments though
[09:13] <pstolowski> pedronis: ok
[09:16] <zyga> greyback: I'm sure it is fine, I'm sorry for asking for some responses or clarifications
[09:16] <zyga> greyback: it helps me since I was not involved with the review and design as deeply as Jamie was
[09:16] <greyback> zyga: not at all
[09:16] <greyback> happy to clarify anything I can
[09:17] <zyga> I will read the full diff enxt
[09:17] <zyga> *next
[09:27] <mup> PR snapd#6555 opened: tests/main/high-user-handling: fix the test for Go 1.12 <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6555>
[09:51] <pedronis> degville: thanks for looking at my new interface doc,  are you at the office? did John joined in the end or not?
[09:52] <degville> pedronis: yep, I'm in the office. John isn't here.
[09:56] <pedronis> degville: thx
[09:58] <zyga> greyback: done
[10:01] <zyga> pstolowski: hey, the description on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6552 has some unusual formatting, is that intentional?
[10:01] <mup> PR #6552: ifacestate/tests: fix/improve udev mon test <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6552>
[10:36] <mborzecki> can we land #6555 ?
[10:36] <mup> PR #6555: tests/main/high-user-handling: fix the test for Go 1.12 <Simple 😃> <⚠ Critical> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6555>
[10:36] <zyga> yes
[10:36] <zyga> lets
[10:36] <zyga> pedronis: ^
[10:42] <mborzecki> or pstolowski maybe ^^ ?
[10:48] <pedronis> merged
[10:49] <mup> PR snapd#6555 closed: tests/main/high-user-handling: fix the test for Go 1.12 <Simple 😃> <⚠ Critical> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6555>
[10:49] <mborzecki> pedronis: thanks!
[10:50] <pedronis> mborzecki: it was not clear from the descr that it was for a failing test though and not local to some people
[10:54] <zyga> mborzecki, pedronis: some idea on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6485#pullrequestreview-209527174
[10:54] <mup> PR #6485: interfaces/seccomp: regenerate changed profiles only <⛔ Blocked> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6485>
[10:55] <mborzecki> zyga: yeah, that's what we discussed with mvo
[10:55] <zyga> ah, that's great
[10:55] <zyga> I think it is an easy win for some performance
[10:55] <zyga> ah, I see now
[10:56] <zyga> +1 on that :)
[10:56] <zyga> pedronis: do you think you will have some time to look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6502 today?
[10:56] <mup> PR #6502: dirs,overlord/snapstate: add Soft and Hard refresh checks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6502>
[10:56] <mborzecki> zyga: another win would be not forking to run snap-seccomp, but that probably has more constraints
[10:56] <zyga> yeah
[10:56] <zyga> but that's more complex
[10:56] <zyga> I have some ideas
[10:56] <zyga> but not for a minor change
[10:57] <pedronis> zyga: not today,  monday, I prioritized a bit 2.38 stuff
[10:57] <zyga> sounds good, thank you
[10:57] <zyga> I'm going through reviews
[10:58] <pedronis> (and long outstanding store stuff)
[10:58] <zyga> understood
[11:17] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6482/files seems like a low hanging fruit
[11:17] <mup> PR #6482: [RFC] cmd/snap: make 'snap list' show disabled snaps dimmed <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6482>
[11:22] <pedronis> I'm very undecided about it
[11:23] <pedronis> atm
[11:23] <zyga> should we mark it as blocked?
[11:23] <pedronis> it's cute but then is another thing that we need to consistently everywhere
[11:25] <pedronis> I'm closing it for now with a comment
[11:26] <mup> PR snapd#6482 closed: [RFC] cmd/snap: make 'snap list' show disabled snaps dimmed <Created by chipaca> <Closed by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6482>
[11:41] <mup> PR snapd#6548 closed: release: snapd 2.37.4 <Created by mvo5> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6548>
[12:16] <mborzecki> Chipaca is off today, isn'the?
[12:16] <zyga> I think so
[12:16] <zyga> I think I should burn my holidays
[12:17] <mborzecki> pedronis: i've updated the snap connections branch
[12:20] <mborzecki> ok, now the bpf branch
[12:21] <mborzecki> there should be a button on github that'd allow merging master to a PR
[12:21] <zyga> yeah
[12:21] <zyga> or rebase
[12:23] <pedronis> mborzecki: I need to comment on the plan there (the bpf branch)
[12:24] <mborzecki> pedronis: ok
[12:27] <pedronis> mborzecki: done, asked a couple of questions on the plan
[12:35] <pedronis> mborzecki: oops, sorry I should have commented before,  we probably want printing the deprecation warning in a separate PR (to go with early 2.39, not 2.38)
[12:36] <mborzecki> pedronis: ok, i'll revert the patch then
[12:45] <pstolowski> zyga: thanks for looking at hotplug test PR!
[12:52] <zyga> the greengrass PR is complex
[12:52] <zyga> but almost done
[12:54] <pedronis> mborzecki: thanks for reverting that bit, feel free to propose a PR with just it
[12:58] <pstolowski> zyga: re hotplug test, is there a better way than 'test -w ...' than doesn't require real writes to serial port?
[12:58] <zyga> pstolowski: I doubt it
[12:58] <pstolowski> and that would fail on cgroup
[12:58] <zyga> pstolowski: maybe reverse the test
[12:58] <zyga> pstolowski: write when you expect it to fail
[12:58] <zyga> and look for faiure
[12:59] <zyga> *failure
[12:59] <zyga> *failure
[13:01] <pstolowski> zyga: would be better to test positive scenario as well. i think qemu serial port allows read/writes, need to investigate
[13:01] <zyga> I'm sure they do
[13:01] <zyga> perhaps the output goes to a file on the host?
[13:01] <mborzecki> off to pick up the kids
[13:01] <pstolowski> zyga: yeah i think you can redirect it wherever you want
[13:01] <mup> PR snapd#6556 opened: cmd/snap: hide 'interfaces' command, show deprecation notice <⛔ Blocked> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6556>
[13:31] <zyga> brb, tea time ahead of the standup
[13:57] <degville> pedronis / zyga: I'm not going to be able to make it to the standup - still in discussions n the office.
[13:58] <pedronis> degville: ok
[14:00] <zyga> degville: ack thank you
[14:02] <zyga> pedronis: are you able to attend the standup today?
[14:12] <zyga> mborzecki: please cherry pick the fix to 2.37 in case we need more releases, easier while we remember about the issue
[14:21] <mup> PR snapd#6557 opened: tests/main/high-user-handling: fix the test for Go 1.12 (2.37) <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6557>
[14:21] <mborzecki> zyga: ^^
[14:28] <zyga> thank you
[14:30] <zyga> mborzecki: I started looking at the selinux branch
[14:30] <zyga> I will review it carefully but I need to take the dog out first because it's very late already
[14:30] <zyga> mborzecki: I left a few comments
[14:30] <zyga> two small actions: cleanup functions please
[14:30] <zyga> I'll be back in 30-40 minutes
[14:30] <mborzecki> zyga: thanks, will take a look
[14:30] <zyga> pedronis: I didn't give my update but I was mainly doing reviews, forum and yesterday release work
[14:31] <zyga> pedronis: the issue with personal files is interesting, it's just a hidden assumption, I will have some more thoughts on the forum about that
[14:33] <pedronis> zyga: sorry
[14:33] <pedronis> zyga: thanks
[14:33] <pedronis> zyga: I created the card
[14:48]  * cachio afk
[15:04] <jdstrand> pedronis and zyga: responded to/addressed all feedback in https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6549, but please see my comments wrt 2.38
[15:04] <mup> PR #6549: apparmor: support AppArmor 2.13 <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6549>
[15:07] <pstolowski> mborzecki: do you have a moment? would be nice to land https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6552
[15:07] <mup> PR #6552: ifacestate/tests: fix/improve udev mon test <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6552>
[15:10] <mup> PR snapd#6281 closed: interfaces: add multipass-support interface <Created by gerboland> <Merged by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6281>
[15:23]  * mborzecki off to the swimming pool
[15:52] <mup> PR snapd#6552 closed: ifacestate/tests: fix/improve udev mon test <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6552>
[16:18] <zyga> I need to take a nap see you later
[16:24] <kyrofa> roadmr, I got a "Task 40048685-93b9-49b7-96b6-83dabd1d83bb failed" on a nextcloud snap (that's the error-- no review issues, just a job failure) that causes all other uploads to fail with  "Waiting for previous upload(s) to complete their review process".  I get it. But it shouldn't require manual intervention from the snap dev to get back up and running
[16:26] <roadmr> kyrofa: which manual intervention did you need to do?
[16:29] <roadmr> kyrofa: ah, "reject and remove from review queue" probably
[16:35] <kyrofa> Yeah, and re-spin all the builds that failed to upload
[18:12] <mup> PR core#103 opened: hooks: apt warning should return an error <Created by townsend2010> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/103>
[19:22]  * cachio EOW
[19:46] <lborda> hey I built a simple reproducer for a bug while trying to create a snap for cdk collector logs... have you ever experienced this issue ? https://github.com/lborda/snap-bug/issues/1
[20:02] <mup> PR snapd#6554 closed: interfaces/intel-mei: small follow up tweaks <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6554>
[20:13] <mup> PR snapd#6494 closed: interfaces/builtin/udev: add spec to disable udev + device cgroup <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6494>
[21:58] <mup> PR snapcraft#2493 opened: Specify default expiration time for export-login <Created by felicianotech> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2493>


[01:38] <cmaloney> Evening
[02:05] <rick_h_> party
[04:32] <greg-g> sleepy
[13:19] <cmaloney> MOrning
[15:43] <Scary_Guy> hey
[16:01] <cmaloney> How goes?
[16:03] <Scary_Guy> still fighting with nut, can't seem to make it connect but the ups might not be supported
[16:03] <Scary_Guy> dad's got the same one, had the same issues with the windows version of nut
[16:04] <Scary_Guy> the proprietary apc powerchute program runs fine though
[16:04] <Scary_Guy> sorry not nut, apcupsd
[16:07] <cmaloney> right
[16:07] <cmaloney> I got it working once
[16:07] <cmaloney> You might have to do some user perms with USB and apcuspd
[16:07] <cmaloney> I don't recall if it runs as root
[16:09] <Scary_Guy> no, the windows box was apcupsd, mine is nut.  also nut can run as its own user
[16:09] <Scary_Guy> they also recommend strong security since someone could send a shutdown command through it
[16:52] <cmaloney> brousch: pygame is getting a new release. ;)
[16:52] <brousch> What year is this?
[18:11] <shakes808> anyone know C# ASP.NET?
[18:11] <jrwren> not anymore.
[18:11] <shakes808> :|
[18:11] <shakes808> damn
[18:11] <jrwren> that knowledge has long left my brain.
[18:11] <jrwren> why?
[18:12] <shakes808> haha
[18:12] <shakes808> I am having an issue
[18:12] <shakes808> "Parser Error Message: Only Content controls are allowed directly in a content page that contains Content controls."
[18:12] <shakes808> site.master and the child page look good
[18:13] <shakes808> but get that with the code being
[18:13] <shakes808> Line 1:
[18:13] <shakes808> Line 2:
[18:13] <shakes808> Source File: /Default.aspx Line: 1
[18:13] <shakes808> :|
[18:14] <shakes808> been trying to figure this out all day :( getting irritated.  No one here knows or gives me the same advice that I have found in StackOverflow... which isn't working
[18:14] <shakes808> Figured someone in here is smarter than the average bear ;)
[18:16] <jrwren> shakes808: pastebin the Default.aspx?
[18:16] <jrwren> shakes808: also, ##csharp on this irc network is a wonderful place. Maybe  bit too chatty, but used to be full of good peeps.
[18:16] <shakes808> I posted in there but nothing yet :(
[18:17] <jrwren> shakes808: are you using visual studio? does the editor give any syntax errors?
[18:17] <shakes808> http://pastebin.com/Tvj3sqKP
[18:17] <shakes808> Yes VS 13
[18:19] <jrwren> shakes808: all microsoft ;]
[18:19] <jrwren> shakes808: err...  Is it actually committed to VCS that way?
[18:23] <jrwren> shakes808: ya know its ok to delete code, you can always pull it out of history, right?  ;]
[18:23] <shakes808> I took that out to try to see if it would work.  That is just some of the default stuff that loads in when creating a project.
[18:24] <shakes808> After I got it to work I was going to clean that up
[18:24] <jrwren> shakes808: can you hook up a debugger and get a stack trace?  i guess probably not becuase its on parse.
[18:25] <shakes808> I put breakpoints in at every page_load.  it is happening after compile and before rendering.
[18:25] <shakes808> only thing that I can see is the 500 server error because of the parse
[18:26] <jrwren> shakes808: i've no idea. that is a cool problem. content control isn't getting confused by id=body on the div and changing the <asp:Content ID="bodyContent" to <div id=body and they are colliding, are they?
[18:26] <shakes808> Shouldn't be.  that is default tags.
[18:26] <shakes808> those*
[18:27] <shakes808> I will mess with that and see if that changes anything
[18:28] <jrwren> shakes808: delete line 2 so that <asp:Content> is immediately after <%@ Page ?
[18:28] <shakes808> jrwren: same issue
[18:28] <jrwren> i dunno, i'm grasping at straws.
[18:28] <shakes808> thank you, but no change
[18:28] <shakes808> haha
[18:28] <shakes808> i know, i don't understand
[18:28] <shakes808> shouldn't be this difficult
[18:28] <shakes808> we should change our stack to node and python ;)
[18:29] <shakes808> and/or
[18:30] <cmaloney> http://www.peppercarrot.com/en/article379/episode-18-the-encounter <- I helped inspire this episode. ;)
[18:31] <jrwren> shakes808: i dunno... asp.net is pretty sweet. sounds like something stupid getting in your way
[18:40] <jrwren> shakes808: i just poked around MSDN... omg the docs for asp.net are TERRIBLE these days. They were much better 10yrs gao.
[18:41] <cmaloney> That's suprising
[18:46] <shakes808> jrwren: right?!  the csharp chat just responded.  "I don't see anything obviously wrong"   .... :| wouldn't be in there if it was something simple haha
[18:46] <jrwren> shakes808: i still think it is something stupid, like <%-- isn't commenting or end commenting correctly or something.
[18:47] <shakes808> alright, I will get rid of all that
[18:47] <shakes808> :| nope... :(
[18:49] <shakes808> jrwren: I guess I can try to remake it and see if I get a different result, but doubt it
[18:49] <jrwren> shakes808: line endings?  dos v. unix style?
[18:49] <shakes808> How do I check that in VS?
[18:49] <jrwren> shakes808: encoding?  asci v. utf8 v.?
[18:49] <jrwren> I dunno, know your editor :p
[18:49] <shakes808> haha
[18:50] <jrwren> if you copy and pasted something from somewhere, sometimes those can pull wrong line endings and paste tehm.
[18:50] <jrwren> read your source in a hex editor? :]
[18:50] <jrwren> i'm crazy enough to do that. I don't actually recommmend it.
[18:54] <shakes808> in the site.master it has the charset.  Changed it to ASCII and ANSI and nothing has changed :( same error
[18:54] <jrwren> does the UTF8 saved file have a BOM header?
[18:54] <jrwren> maybe there are hidden null characters?
[18:54] <jrwren> does the file XML parse?
[18:54] <jrwren> it is well formatted XML?
[18:54] <jrwren> maybe run through XML Lint
[18:55] <shakes808> I can see if I can find anything in a HEX editor
[19:02] <shakes808> I see this in front, but some special characters in front.  but i think that is the header of the file to denote the type of file?  It comes back like this when I copy it " using System.C "
[19:04] <shakes808> looks like an i with two dots then  >> followed by upside down ?
[19:05] <shakes808> Going to try to remake the project and add this stuff back in
[19:07] <jrwren> what hex values?  if it is 3 bytes, 0xEF,0xBB,0xBF  its the BOM
[19:08] <jrwren> adding stuff back in with copy and paste might just paste bad characters if it is bad characters causing the problem.
[19:08] <shakes808> it is the first three char
[19:08] <shakes808> alright, then I will retype it all out
[20:29] <shakes808> jrwren: so I just got done typing most of my code back in.  it had to be something to do with copy and pasting the code.  :|  wasted a day on copy and paste .... WTF!!!!
[20:31] <greg-g> welcome to computers
[20:31] <shakes808> greg-g: HAHA :( ;(
[20:32] <gamerchick02> bad time with computers right now?
[20:36] <shakes808> gamerchick02: spent the day trying to figure out what was going on with my web app when it would seem it was a copy and paste issue.  started a new proj and typed all the files out and it is working ..... :| X{
[20:36] <gamerchick02> oh ugh. that stuff happens.
[20:37] <jrwren> shakes808: beware pasting.
[20:37] <shakes808> haha
[20:37] <jrwren> shakes808: Imma claim that I helped.
[20:38] <shakes808> HAHA, well you did point me in that direction that copy and paste might be off.
[20:38] <shakes808> too bad I didn't find this sooner
[20:38] <shakes808>  :(
[20:39] <gamerchick02> well you found it now.
[20:39] <gamerchick02> i call that a success.
[20:39] <shakes808> and the other issue is that we are using VB and C#.  If we weren't compiling all the time and changing references and whatever else we need to do, this could have been a non issue.  :)
[20:40] <shakes808> nothing is consistent :|  Working on getting them there :)
[20:44] <gamerchick02> ooof that's a big job. good luck
[20:45] <shakes808> i know.  I am working on getting both of the dev teams in the same work flow right now and utilizing TFS a better way and a better release process... i have my work cut out for me.
[20:46] <gamerchick02> you do. wow.
[21:00] <shakes808> have a good weekend all
[21:04] <gamerchick02> you too!


[08:10] <Spads> Good morning all.  It seems the lubuntu.me site is down.  I realise it is still the small hours of the night where it is hosted, but perhaps someone has access to resurrect it?
[08:51] <guiverc> Thanks Spads, I hadn't noticed... We'll get to it when we can.
[08:51] <Spads> guiverc: 💪🦄
[15:05] <Guest59524> hello
[15:08] <bob_> bill
[18:55] <subash> hi. can anyone help me get stremio running in lubuntu. i am new to linux. thanks
[19:00] <wxl> subash: what the heck is stremio?
[19:01] <wxl> oh nevermind i googled it
[19:01] <wxl> (well, duckduckgo)
[19:01] <subash> its like netflix but you dont pay
[19:01] <wxl> so the unfortunate thing here is that it's not something that ubuntu provides, so ultimately the party responsible for support is stremio itself
[19:02] <wxl> however i can see they have a deb package you can install
[19:02] <wxl> i see they don't support 32 bit so if you have that you're in trouble
[19:02] <subash> yes. i did install it but it dosnt work
[19:02] <subash> FYI i am a newbie
[19:03] <subash> also i have lubuntu not ubuntu
[19:03] <wxl> do you know if you have a 32 or 64 bit setup?
[19:03] <wxl> lubuntu is ubuntu
[19:03] <subash> 64bit
[19:04] <wxl> are you sure that both your machine is 64 bit and the kernel you're running is 64 bit?
[19:04] <subash> i can type some thing in terminal and tell you what it says
[19:04] <wxl> uname -a
[19:05] <wxl> if you're running a 64 bit kernel you clearly have a 64 bit machine
[19:05] <subash> x86_64
[19:05] <wxl> ok so you're good there
[19:05] <wxl> what version of lubuntu you running?
[19:06] <subash> 14.1
[19:06] <wxl> that's kind of old
[19:06] <wxl> in fact, the correct word is "unsupported"
[19:06] <subash> would that be a problem
[19:07] <wxl> it certainly isn't going to help you XD
[19:07] <wxl> especially given that even ubuntu (which has longer support times than lubuntu) stopped standard support of it earlier this year
[19:07] <subash> what should i type in the terminal to update
[19:08] <wxl> well now there's a good question
[19:08] <wxl> *if* the upgrade path is supported, `sudo do-release-upgrade`
[19:09] <wxl> wait
[19:09] <subash> it says please install all updates before upgrade
[19:09] <wxl> you said 14.10 or 14.04????
[19:09] <wxl> if you said 14.10 that's even worse. that's been LONG unsupported.
[19:09] <subash> itsays 14.1
[19:09] <wxl> you need to upgrade to *at least* 18.04 to make it work
[19:10] <subash> seems like a lot of work. musht as well install new
[19:10] <subash> what would you say
[19:10] <wxl> that would certainly make life a lot easier, yes
[19:10] <wxl> personally, i'd suggest getting 19.10. the new stuff is the best :)
[19:11] <subash> i like lubuntu but is there anyting new now
[19:11] <wxl> also since streamio uses qt and the new versions of lubuntu use a desktop environment based on qt rather than gtk, you won't need to install a bunch of extra libraries
[19:11] <subash> i recently saw deepin
[19:11]  * wxl shrugs
[19:11] <subash> bad?
[19:11] <wxl> lubuntu works for me. i don't find a need to look elsewhere
[19:12] <subash> i understand. i too like simple and lightweight
[19:12] <wxl> yeah, that's nice. also "functional right out of the box" is helpful.
[19:13] <wxl> i mean arch is simple and lightweight......... but takes a fair amount of babysitting to get it set up the way you need it to be
[19:13] <subash> so should i get a bootablependrive and start installing
[19:13] <wxl> that would be the most reasonable solution, yes
[19:13] <subash> this is a i3 machine
[19:13] <subash> old
[19:13] <wxl> not *that* old :)
[19:14] <subash> well when compared to todays standard atleaset
[19:14] <subash> any advices before i start the deed
[19:15] <wxl> nope
[19:15] <subash> thanks my friend.


[03:55] <n3pla2000> Weird thing... I get an error report in lubuntu, but never a told whet it is. A pop up dialog asks if I want to report the error or cancel. Everything seems to work, however when copying files, I see no progress dialog, and vlc and some other program appear without window frames around them. No maximize, minimize, or exit buttons, title bar or left
[03:55] <n3pla2000> hand program logo. Can this be fixed?
[03:58] <wxl> n3pla2000: re: error tracker, whoopsie is weird at times but don't worry, it's aggregating data https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
[03:58] <wxl> n3pla2000: regarding other issues, which version of lubuntu?
[03:58] <n3pla2000> Also the error message appears at random times, not the same time I start vlc or other programs. Firefox, and others have window frames, including controls
[03:58] <wxl> could be background daemons
[03:59] <n3pla2000> wxl human or bot?
[03:59] <wxl> i'm a bot please don't think i'm intelligent
[03:59]  * wxl rolls his eyes so far in the back of his head they look forward
 wxl's a living being :P
 but details are important sooooooooo :P
[04:00] <wxl> oh come now don't give away my secrets
[04:01] <wxl> i'm gonna get an oscar for this caliber of acting
[04:01] <n3pla2000> how do I determine what the error is? has to be a log somewhere
[04:01] <wxl> you can try looking if anything is in /var/crash to start
 what wxl doesn't know is I control his thoughts as he's been assimilated into my collective :P  (Sorry I like to joke with wxl a bit, ignore me :P )
[04:04] <n3pla2000> see one for two no window controls around some programs in lubuntuprograms, and one I do not recognise... _usr_bin_mandb.6.crash
[04:05] <wxl> having a crash in the manual page database sounds exceptionally strange
[04:05] <wxl> what version of lubuntu do you have?
 @wxl [<wxl> having a crash in the manual page database sounds exceptionally strange], not too unusual if you have an OOM situation during installs, but it is definitely unusual.
[04:07] <wxl> there's always exceptions to the rule but that just smells bad to me
[04:08] <wxl> you usually have files in /var/crash that haven't been properly processed. you can run `ubuntu-bug /var/crash/_usr_bin_mandb.6.crash` to take care of that. then it will stop bugging you.
 i'm curious what other crashes are present there though
 since you indicate that there's other ones around some of the other lubuntu programs
[04:08] <n3pla2000> 18.04
[04:08] <wxl> ah the ancient version yay
[04:09] <wxl> what is the value of $XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP /
[04:14] <n3pla2000> typed ubuntu-bug command in and got a dialog that actually explained it was a mandb error. and was able to hit send. previously got error messages without explaination but could still send. can the lack of dialog boxes or file copies or the like of window frame work around some windows be caused by what ever crashed mandb?
[04:14] <n3pla2000> hold will get XDG_SESS....
[04:14] <wxl> unlikely
[04:15] <n3pla2000> Lubuntu
[04:16] <n3pla2000> only had three now have more: _usr_bin_deluge-gtk.1000.crash  _usr_bin_mandb.6.crash   _usr_bin_mandb.6.uploaded_usr_bin_gnome-mpv.1000.crash   _usr_bin_mandb.6.upload
 nah, actually, the mandb files indicate uploads.
[04:17] <n3pla2000> not worried about deluge aware of why it crashed
 which is not unusual for when you do the `ubuntu-bug` command on the crash file
[04:18] <n3pla2000> pretty sure why gnome-mpv cashedr
[04:18] <wxl> you can delete the mandb ones
[04:18] <wxl> what does /etc/alternatives/x-window-manager point to?
[04:20] <n3pla2000> no such file or directory
[04:21] <wxl> did you type that wrong, because that's pretty remarkable
[04:21] <n3pla2000> may be a problem with cd command
[04:22] <wxl> how long have you had this install?
[04:22] <n3pla2000> openbox
[04:24] <wxl> what theme name are you using if you do something like `grep -A 3 \<theme\> ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml`?
[04:24] <n3pla2000> week or two ubuntu and kubuntu was so slow I could listen to an entire song after selecting a program and still not have it appear on screen, chose lubuntu not machine is responsive
[04:25] <wxl> have you always had such problems?
[04:25] <wxl> i.e. the window decoration issues
[04:26] <n3pla2000> no window decoration problems in other "buntus" or suse, just slower than molasses in winter
[04:26] <wxl> i'm talking about since you started lubuntu
[04:27] <n3pla2000> Mikachu
[04:27] <wxl> ah ok so you are using some weird theme. you can ask whoever cursed you with that for support :)
[04:28] <n3pla2000> when I first used vlc it has window decorations, but some where along the lines they stopped
[04:28] <n3pla2000> Mikachu was pre-installed, and looked nice
[04:28] <n3pla2000> it looks nice around my browser right now
[04:29] <wxl> um
[04:29] <wxl> Lubuntu doesn't not preinstall Mikachu
[04:29] <n3pla2000> every program I am using right not has window decorations
[04:29] <n3pla2000> I did not install it
[04:29] <wxl> then what's the problem again?
[04:31] <wxl> Mikachu is an option, but we don't have it installed by default
[04:31] <wxl> i've never tested it so ymmv
[04:31] <n3pla2000> no window decorations around some programs, looks more like no windows around them. Means I can not move a program to another part of the screen
 alt+space
 and use the menu
[04:32] <wxl> you say every program you use has window decorations but then you say you don't?
 also can readd decorations that way hopefully
[04:32] <wxl> in any case i would restore the openbox configuration
[04:32] <wxl> the defaults are in /etc/xdg/openbox/rc.xml
[04:34] <n3pla2000> must right click application on the kicker to get menu, and it had no move feature. alt+space option did show move, but no window decorations
[04:35] <n3pla2000> ok I used alt+space to move the program vlc
[04:35] <n3pla2000> the window decorations were off the screen
[04:36] <n3pla2000> how do I keep them from going off screen like that
[04:36] <wxl> don't move them there?
[04:36] <n3pla2000> obviously NOT a window decoration problem after all
[04:36] <n3pla2000> did not move it there
[04:37] <n3pla2000> it appears that way when the program opens... that is why I though the window decorations were not workig
[04:37] <wxl> well the window decorations don't just separate from the window…
[04:38] <wxl> they're not a separate element. they're intricately tied to the window itself
[04:38] <n3pla2000> not but I have seen programs with out windows decorations before... happened when a gtk program opened and somethin was missing from gtk
[04:38] <wxl> perhaps we're having a misunderstanding? try a screenshot
[04:41] <n3pla2000> tried using keyboard to do screen shot, no result. may not have screen shot installed
[04:41] <wxl> use `scrot`
[04:42] <n3pla2000> scrot failed
[04:43] <n3pla2000> anyway problem is resolved. It is simple opening programs with the title bar off screen
[04:44] <n3pla2000> no window should be allowed to open partially off screen
[04:45] <wxl> i've certainy never seen one that does, but like i said, we might be talking about two different things
[04:45] <wxl> anyways, glad all is resolved. good night
[04:46] <n3pla2000> thanks guys... sometimes I think programmers forget some basic things, having a program open partly of fully off the screen is something that guarded against
[04:47] <n3pla2000> mine was opening with the title bar and decorations off screen and could only close it using the kicker / taskbar entyr
[04:48] <wxl> until you can show me a picture, i can't really help you any further
[04:48] <wxl> scros is the screenshot utility in lubuntu, which i know also works
[04:48] <wxl> scrot i mean
[04:48] <n3pla2000> I no longer need it. scrot did not work
[04:48] <wxl> it's quite possible given all the strange issues you're having that you have a bad install. if you didn't check the validity of your installation media, that may be the problem
[04:48] <wxl> you might have all sorts of problems lurking around
[04:49] <wxl> and furthermore the theme you're using is entirely untested by us, so there's that. you could easily restore the default configuration to determine whether or not that's the problem
[04:49] <n3pla2000> I burned it to a thumbdrive. same as I used to install other OSes and they work fine
[04:50] <n3pla2000> Yeah, musthave been tested by someone, came with my installation
[04:51] <wxl> that means nothing if you didn't check the installation media itself, i.e. ensure that you copied the exact right installation image and that there were no copy or download errors
[04:51] <wxl> if you didn't check, you simply cannot verify that you have a proper installation
[04:51] <wxl> i'm telling you the Lubuntu team has never tested that theme. we only ever tested the Lubuntu theme.
[04:51] <wxl> the rest come with openbox and openbox has been pretty much undeveloped for a long, long time
[04:58] <n3pla2000> Artwix-boxed, Bear2, Breeze-ob, Clearlooks, Clearlooks-3.4, Clearlooks-Olive, Lubuntu Arc, Lubuntu-dark-panel, Lubuntu-default, Lubuntu-small, Mikachu, Natura, Nightmare, Nightmare-01, Nightmare-02, Nightmare-03, Onyx, Onyx-Citrus, Orang, Syscrash are all listed in the Openbox Configuration Manaer
[04:58] <n3pla2000> Manager
[04:58] <wxl> yep, they come from openbox
[04:59] <wxl> and openbox hasn't been developed in a long time as i said
[04:59] <wxl> look at the versions.. they are all 3.6.1 https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openbox
[04:59] <n3pla2000> Please note Mikachu is in that list, I have NOT installed any additional themes, just selected one
[04:59] <wxl> and it's been that way for nearly half a decade https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/openbox/openbox_3.6.1-8/changelog
[05:00] <wxl> i have no reason to believe that theme isn't part of your problem
[05:00] <wxl> i also have no reason to believe that your installation isn't fundamentally broken
[05:02] <n3pla2000> so what is the PRESENT lubuntu
[05:02] <wxl> you're asking what version is openbox on now or are you asking the current version of lubuntu?
[05:02] <n3pla2000> version number
[05:02] <n3pla2000> Lubuntu
[05:03] <wxl> 19.10 with 20.04 soon on the way
[05:05] <n3pla2000> I would rather use KDE Plasma, but I let the installation choose what display manager to use since KDE is very heavy. Never used Openbox before, but Lubuntu is supposed to be light weight, so I assumed it would use a light weight display manager by defaul
[05:05] <n3pla2000> so 19.10 is present so 18.04 is not really that out dated
[05:06] <wxl> we stop supporting it early next year
[05:06] <n3pla2000> I chose 18.04 because I am using Kubuntu 18.04 on other machines
[05:06] <wxl> we're currently not using LXDE but LXQt
[05:06] <wxl> every single application is different
[05:07] <n3pla2000> is there an 18.04 version of LXQt
[05:07] <wxl> so i would refer to them as dramatically different and 18.04 outdated because LXDE is really lacking any good support. they haven't made any development at all in quite a long time
[05:07] <wxl> i would call LXQt in 18.04 as a little rough around the edges
[05:08] <n3pla2000> Great! never heard of LDQt when I looked for a light weigh alternative. I never get the latest version, usually 1 version back as often new versions need bug fixes more than older ones
[05:09] <wxl> yeah well in this case, the opposite is true
[05:10] <n3pla2000> just got a error: System Program Problem Detected Do you want to report the problem now? No details:
[05:10] <wxl> like i said, can't be sure you don't have a broken system
[05:11] <wxl> you are having some incredibly weird problems that seem to be difficult to explain in another way
[05:11] <n3pla2000> nothing seems to be malfunctioning before/during/after such a report
[05:14] <n3pla2000> gnome-mpv seem not to use window decorations... it has it's own close button, and is moveable without them
[05:16] <wxl> it sure does
[05:16] <n3pla2000> what can cause mandb to crash
[05:16] <wxl> a rather unsatisfactory large amount of gnome packages are like that
[05:16] <wxl> i've never seen such a problem before ever
[05:17] <n3pla2000> any guesses
[05:18] <wxl> here's the current bugs in it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/man-db
[05:18] <wxl> were you even using the manpages?
[05:19] <n3pla2000> no. not during reported crash, or even since booting up
[05:19] <wxl> then no idea
[05:21] <n3pla2000> tried man ls to see if it would list ls man page... worked fine
[05:22] <wxl> like i said, you are having fundamental problems that are inexplicable
[05:24] <n3pla2000> have a few kde and gnome specific programs installed... all work, prefer synaptic pkg manager
[05:25] <wxl> i wouldn't say that having *ANY* problem installed should cause man-db to have an issue UNLESS there's a fundamental problem in the manpage of a particular program
[05:26] <wxl> `mandb -d` might be instructive
[05:26] <wxl> also `mandb -t`
[05:31] <n3pla2000> "/usr/man" appears to be missing... what chown and chmod should it be set to
[05:33] <n3pla2000> mandb -t gives no report
[05:34] <wxl> that's no big deal
[05:34] <wxl> sounds normal to me
[05:34] <wxl> so who knows
[05:34] <n3pla2000> yeah but what about missing "/usr/man" directory
[05:36] <wxl> it's normal
[05:37] <n3pla2000> also reports: path directory /snap/bin is not in the config file
[05:37] <n3pla2000> needed? I do not yet have any snaps
[05:38] <wxl> nope
[05:38] <wxl> totally normal
[05:39] <n3pla2000> don't care for snaps prefer deb files, or other self installing machine files from vendors
[05:40] <n3pla2000> rpms aren't bad either pain to install of debian based systems, great on red hat/fedora
[05:42] <n3pla2000> Some one need to invent a pkg manager everyone can get behind, one that understands deb, rpm, snap...
[05:43] <n3pla2000> vlc is practically the defacto media player
[05:43] <wxl> well that's why so-called universal packages exist, i.e. snap, flatpak, appimage
[05:43] <wxl> in any case, this is offtopic. if you have no support needs but want to chat, see #lubuntu-offtopic
[05:45] <n3pla2000> yeah, not so universal... I like synaptic because it tells me everything and anything about the software, what it is doing... well I was thinking of going anyway... L8R
[22:44] <CamelRiderZ> hey guys is it recommeneded to use os-uninstaller to remove windows 10 ?
[22:44] <wxl> if you're trying to replace it with lubuntu, just use the installer to erase the disk and install lubuntu
[22:45] <CamelRiderZ> i already have lubuntu and win10
[22:45] <CamelRiderZ> i want to remove win10 without messing anything up
[22:46] <wxl> format the partition
[22:46] <CamelRiderZ> with gparted in a live usb ?
[22:46] <CamelRiderZ> wxl: do i need to make a boot repair after ?
[22:46] <wxl> assuming they're on the same target drive and that's the drive you're running on, you would need live media, yes
[22:47] <wxl> you installed lubuntu second?
[22:47] <CamelRiderZ> ye
[22:47] <wxl> and it boots to lubuntu by default?
[22:47] <CamelRiderZ> no
[22:48] <CamelRiderZ> i can see the grub
[22:48] <CamelRiderZ> to choose between win and lubuntu
[22:48] <wxl> and if you let it run, does it pick lubuntu?
[22:48] <CamelRiderZ> ye
[22:48] <wxl> ok then no boot repair required per se
[22:48] <wxl> but after you've rebooted into lubuntu you might want to `sudo update-grub` to get it to forget windows
[22:48] <CamelRiderZ> okay i still feel like am gonna mess something up
[22:48] <CamelRiderZ> gonna try now
[22:50] <wxl> ^ good advice
[23:02] <CamelRiderZ> wxl back,  i removed the C partition and there was two NTFS partions sizes 450 and 350m which i also deleted
[23:06] <CamelRiderZ> updated grub and it directly booted into lubuntu, is there anything else i need to do ?
[23:07] <wxl> nope you did it
[23:07] <CamelRiderZ> whew
[23:16] <lubuntu_> hey
[23:16] <wxl> ho
[23:16] <lubuntu_> wxl it is me ,camelrider again sorry
[23:17] <lubuntu_> after deleting the C Partition i am left with an unallocated space that i can't add to other partitions
[23:17] <lubuntu_> and it is above the partition table not inside it
[23:17] <wxl> pics?
[23:19] <lubuntu_> https://imagebin.ca/v/5BtyfAo22yAm
[23:22] <wxl> oh my crazy extended partitions
[23:22] <lubuntu_> ._.
[23:23] <wxl> so i think this will still work
[23:23] <wxl> but you should go backup everything
[23:23] <wxl> don't skip that
[23:23] <wxl> then go back to the live media and you should be able to resize the extended partition
[23:24] <lubuntu_> you think what will work
[23:24] <wxl> yeah
[23:24] <lubuntu_> no you didn't say anything
[23:24] <lubuntu_> i am in the live media , what will work ?
[23:24] <wxl> i know it will work with standard linux fs
[23:24] <lubuntu_> ?_?
[23:24] <wxl> first go backup everything
[23:24] <lubuntu_> do you mean i should create a new partition
[23:24] <lubuntu_> instead of resizing ?
[23:25] <wxl> i've done a lot of successful resizing but it runs the risk of losing data
[23:25] <lubuntu_> you don't understand , ican't resize
[23:25] <lubuntu_> when i try to resize any partion i can't
[23:26] <wxl> are any of them mounted?
[23:26] <lubuntu_> no i am in the live usb
[23:26] <wxl> (yes, that's the lock symbol)
[23:26] <wxl> unmount them
[23:26] <lubuntu_> wait what
 or did you use xfs which can't be shrunk
[23:27] <wxl> swaps automount
[23:27] <lubuntu_> they're all unmounted
[23:27] <wxl> so you have swap mounted and since you have some logical partition in your extended partition mounted, the extended partition is mounted
[23:27] <wxl> so there's no lock icon next to any of the partitions, right/
[23:27] <lubuntu_> only on swap
[23:27] <wxl> un mount it
[23:28] <lubuntu_> you mean swapoff ?
[23:28] <wxl> and unmount the extended partition if it doesn't do it when you unmount swap
[23:28] <wxl> yeah same diff :)
[23:29] <lubuntu_> lock is off now
[23:29] <lubuntu_> but i still can't resize
[23:29] <wxl> let's see the pic
[23:29] <lubuntu_> wait should i resize the entire extended thing ?
[23:30] <wxl> yes
[23:31] <lubuntu_> here is the pic
[23:31] <lubuntu_> https://imagebin.ca/v/5Bu272hr5Fgj
[23:36] <wxl> https://gparted.org/display-doc.php?name=moving-space-between-partitions
[23:38] <lubuntu_> i am extending right now
[23:38] <lubuntu_> but it is taking so long
[23:38] <wxl> yes, it does take a long time
[23:38] <wxl> don't ask me why :)
[23:38] <lubuntu_> they're literally moving the 72gb
[23:38] <lubuntu_> now i pray that i don't get a power outage
[23:39] <wxl> https://askubuntu.com/questions/177882/shrinking-file-system-taking-a-lot-of-time-is-this-normal
[23:39] <wxl> tl;dr defragging XD


[00:16] <bluesabre> hey guys
[00:27] <bluesabre> ochosi: xubuntu-artwork uploaded, thanks!
[07:38] <Luyin> hi guys, I'd like to contribute to the development of Xubuntu. I'm a total beginner at programming, but I might be of some use when it comes to writing FAQs, documentation and translation, and I can test packages and help finding bugs.
[07:43] <Noskcaj> Luyin, Welcome to the team
[07:43] <Luyin> thanks Noskcaj
[07:43] <Noskcaj> our head of QA (testing) should be around in an hour or two if that's what you want to get into
[07:45] <Noskcaj> You mentioned translation, what languages do you know?
[07:46] <Luyin> Noskcaj: english and german (and some probably unuseful stuff like latin and ancient greek ;)
[07:49] <Noskcaj> If you want to do translations, look at https://wiki.xfce.org/translations and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGermanTranslators
[07:50] <Noskcaj> and slickymaster is the documentation lead
[07:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: thanks a bunch!
[07:51] <Luyin> thanks for the info, Noskcaj, I'll look into it
[07:52] <Noskcaj> great
[07:52] <Noskcaj> evening elfy
[07:52] <elfy> hi Noskcaj
[07:53] <Noskcaj> Luyin, elfy is our QA lead, if it's testing you want to be involved in, talk to him
[07:53] <Luyin> hi elfy
[07:53] <elfy> hi Luyin
[07:55] <Luyin> elfy: I just said I'd like to contribute with translations (English, German), documentation, FAQ; testing packages, reporting bugs, and the like. I don't programme (except for some small perl scripts), but I thought I might be of some use
[07:56] <elfy> Luyin: yep I'd just read the backlog, docs and faq stuff ->slickymaster and knome
[07:56] <elfy> I don't programmer either ;)
[07:56] <Luyin> ok :)
[07:56] <elfy> as far as testing goes - we're constantly doing 2 things - image testing and package testing
[07:56] <elfy> do you have a launchpad account?
[07:57] <Luyin> elfy: yes I do
[07:57] <elfy> okey doke - and are you actually using 14.10 daily - or still using 14.04 ?
[07:58] <Luyin> elfy: I'm using 14.04 for productivity. But I can install 14.10 dailies in VMs
[07:58] <elfy> cool
[07:59] <Luyin> alternatively, I've got a spare laptop for playing around, but I'd like to stick witht the VMs as long as that's possible
[07:59] <elfy> so basically daily tests for images are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
[07:59] <elfy> and the package tests are at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases
[08:00] <elfy> so - install vm - pick a test run it- report the result on the relevant tracker and I'll be happy chappy :)
[08:01] <Luyin> all right :) I'll start this evening after work. looking forward to it!
[08:01] <elfy> join the dev m/l and also the LP testers group - most detail is on http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
[08:02] <elfy> you'll see calls from me when we're testing specific things - this week we'll be testing the beta image
[08:02] <elfy> that'll be important :)
[08:02] <elfy> Luyin: what timezone are you in?
[08:03] <Luyin> elfy: germany, Berlin
[08:04] <elfy> Luyin: nice - so I should be more or less about when you are if you need anything, other wise anyone should be able to help you :)
[08:04] <Luyin> elfy: ok great, thanks :)
[08:05] <brainwash> Luyin: welcome :)
[08:06] <brainwash> Luyin: I suggest that you also create an account for the Xfce bug tracker https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
[08:06] <brainwash> so you can create upstream bug reports or add comments to them
[08:06] <Luyin> thanks brainwash, I'll do that
[08:07] <elfy> morning brainwash
[08:07] <brainwash> hey elfy
[08:07] <Luyin> ok, a whole lot of new bookmarks to go through, hehe
[08:08] <elfy> :)
[08:33] <elfy> Unit193: so why is the mini iso looking for 3.16.0-6-generic instead of current
[08:34] <elfy> ochosi: yea, got an issue with the mini iso and kernel modules currently - all come to a standstill, I'll test the testcase against the trusty one - so we can get the tracker set up now at least
[08:37] <elfy> I'd got talk to cjwatson but he'll be having the day off like I am
[08:37] <elfy> hi slickymaster
[08:37] <elfy> work:p
[08:37] <slickymasterWork> hi elfy
[08:41] <elfy> left a message in -release for the time being
[08:42] <elfy> slickymasterWork: someone called Luyin is floating about wanting to get involved, europe timezone which helps, I've dealt with the QA side, but "I just said I'd like to contribute with translations (English, German), documentation, FAQ; testing packages, reporting bugs, and the like"
[08:42] <elfy> so keep an eye out :)
[08:43] <slickymasterWork> I will elfy. Was he about here, in the channel?
[08:43] <elfy> yep, still is :)
[08:43] <slickymasterWork> ok, thanks for the heads up elfy
[08:44]  * slickymasterWork is reading through the weekend logs
[08:44] <elfy> :)
[08:45] <ochosi> elfy: ok, thanks!
[08:45] <slickymasterWork> morning ochosi
[08:45] <ochosi> hey slickymasterWork
[08:46] <Luyin> slickymasterWork: I'm here ;)
[08:46] <slickymasterWork> Ihey there Luyin
[08:46] <Luyin> hi slickymasterWork
[08:47] <slickymasterWork> I ear you're willing to help us, do you have any questions/doubts I can help you with?
[08:48] <slickymasterWork> re: documentations, translations, etc
[08:48] <slickymasterWork> Luyin: ^^
[08:48] <Luyin> slickymasterWork: actually, at the moment, no. I got a lot of useful links to read which I'll do by the time I'm finished at work and I'm home, and then I'll see what's next ;)
[08:49] <slickymasterWork> great Luyin. In the meanwhile I'll provide you one other link you could start on -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate
[08:49] <slickymasterWork> do you already have a LP account, Luyin?
[08:50] <Luyin> slickymaster: yes, the email's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:50] <slickymasterWork> Luyin: every help is welcome, be it proof-reading spelling and grammar, checking consistency of formatting, checking consistency of language and style or writing glossary entries and adding entries to the index of the xubuntu documentation
[08:51] <slickymasterWork> just on last link Luyin -> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/support_documentation/
[08:51] <slickymasterWork> Luyin, if you have any doubts don't hesitate to ping me
[08:52] <Luyin> slickymasterWork: all right!
[08:52] <slickymasterWork> np Luyin. It's good to have you ~aboard
[08:57] <Luyin> thanks!
[08:58] <knome> hey Luyin
[08:59] <Luyin> hi knome
[08:59] <elfy> ochosi: damn thing is booting now ...
[08:59] <slickymasterWork> key knome
[08:59] <slickymasterWork> o/
[08:59] <slickymasterWork> s/key/hey
[08:59] <knome> key slickymasterWork, and hey too ;)
[08:59] <slickymasterWork> :)
[09:00] <knome> slickymasterWork, you're the key slickymasterWork of this team!
[09:00] <knome> no other slickymasterWork would do
[09:00] <slickymasterWork> only you to make laugh on a monday morning knome
[09:00] <slickymasterWork> + me
[09:01] <knome> good ;)
[09:01]  * knome cheers for no work mail in inbox
[09:01] <knome> now let's start mailing other people! :P
[09:01] <elfy> hi knome
[09:01] <knome> hey elfy :)
[09:05] <ochosi> elfy: wait, you make it sound like that's a bad thing...? :)
[09:06] <elfy> well yea - it's conspired to make me look dafter than I am :D
[09:06] <ochosi> hihi
[09:07] <ochosi> bbl
[09:07] <elfy> so - should have the test up and ready to roll soon - but I'll not be calling until beta 1 is done and dusted
[09:07] <elfy> cya later ochosi
[09:20] <brainwash> bluesabre: more and more people complain about the behavior change caused by the latest xfpm bug fix update in trusty
[09:20] <brainwash> which is bug 1349056
[09:22] <brainwash> xfpm has stopped to inhibit logind once again or sth like that
[09:25] <elfy> loads of updates for xubuntu website http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-250814-102355.php
[09:26] <brainwash> xubuntu website?!
[09:27] <elfy> yea - update mangler mangling again perhaps :)
[09:27] <brainwash> weird grouping of updates
[09:27] <elfy> indeed, first time I've seen it say anything about xubuntu website :)
[09:28] <brainwash> don't use this evil piece of software :>
[09:28] <elfy> I don't very often, I just let it pretend to be used - I am after all testing the dev version :D
[09:35] <bluesabre> brainwash: more and more people are basically following their own steps to fix the problem, instead of what we outline... they even that their xfconf settings for xfpm are incorrect.
[09:35] <bluesabre> it sounds like they are skipping the "Press Apply" step to me.
[09:36] <brainwash> ah, so it's just a misconfiguration
[09:36] <bluesabre> possibly
[09:36] <brainwash> and the default setup (clean install) should be OK
[09:36] <bluesabre> ochosi, can you and eric check it out?
[09:36] <bluesabre> yeah, default should work, we even had verified fixes from several users
[09:37] <bluesabre> or that they are having a bug at a different step, where the login screen is black
[09:37] <bluesabre> more and more, it sounds like X failing on VT switch
[09:38] <bluesabre> and I'd argue, that's not quite our fault
[09:39] <elfy> \o/ installing xubuntu minimal now
[09:41] <bluesabre> I'd suggest leaving a comment to run this command: xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s false
[09:41] <bluesabre> which toggles the setting when clicking apply off, apply on
[09:43] <brainwash> bluesabre: ok, will do
[09:43] <bluesabre> thanks
[09:49] <Unit193> elfy: Jump from Trusty to Utopic or something?
[09:51] <elfy> Unit193: not sure - but I go the mini again and it's installing, very odd - must have not got the new image when I thought I did
[09:52] <Unit193> Yeah not sure, when I tested it it worked fine. :/
[09:53] <elfy> who knows - anyway it's almost finished now, checking the testcase, will get that up for merge and sync shortly, balloons is going to sort the tracker for me, then we can call next week for it and move the damn things from to do/doing to done :)
[09:54] <Unit193> Thanks a ton, yeah that'll be nice.
[09:54] <Unit193> ochosi: ^ status.
[09:55] <Unit193> (Didn't get the link to the testcase before I tried it, but I could try it again.)
[09:56] <elfy> the updated one is only local - the pad one is wrong in places
[09:57] <Unit193> bluesabre: As to what to do, could wait and hold off for a new upstream release, or just go with http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt-offline/apt-offline.git/commit/?id=debf1ea478ec05bbfea4005156c1652af69ebd80 and upload, fixing Bug #1357217.
[09:57] <Unit193> elfy: Oh hrm, seem to missed them, sorry.
[09:57] <elfy> Unit193: s'ok :) that's why more than 2 eyes is good
[09:58] <bluesabre> Unit193: is apt-offline in the xubuntu packageset?
[09:59] <Unit193> Yes.
[09:59] <Unit193> But, haven't personally heard what upstream plans to do.
[09:59] <Unit193> (Commented because it's seeded, but broken thus useless right now.)
[10:02] <bluesabre> Sweet
[10:02] <bluesabre> Upstream might take a while, we can deliver an ubuntu patch for now
[10:04] <Unit193> OK, thanks.
[10:05] <Unit193> Think that's the only status update for now.
[10:07] <elfy> Unit193: ok - that's all done, mp done - just got to wait for balloons now
[10:07] <elfy> I'll grab him this afternoon
[10:07] <Unit193> Great.
[10:08] <bluesabre> Unit193: want to make the patched package and score a sponsored upload?
[10:08] <bluesabre> ;)
[10:10] <slickymasterWork> elfy, do you want me to comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1360353 ?
[10:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: It's native, nope. :D
[10:11] <elfy> slickymasterWork: you can if you like - though I assume you mean the mp
[10:11] <Unit193> Though I can of course, if you'd like.
[10:12] <elfy> slickymasterWork: it'd possibly be better if I can get it all synced so balloons can just deal with the tracker
[10:12] <knome> Unit193, that'd be great, on your way to per-package upload rights ;)
[10:12] <bluesabre> If you've got the time, otherwise remind me about it tonight/tomorrow
[10:12] <slickymasterWork> yes, I meant the MP, of course ;)
[10:14] <Unit193> knome: I'm not on my way, silly. :D
[10:15] <knome> Unit193, yeeees you are.
[10:22] <elfy> slickymasterWork: ta :)
[10:22] <slickymasterWork> np elfy
[10:28] <Unit193> bluesabre: I think https://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-offline_1.3.1ubuntu1.dsc looks right...
[10:47] <Unit193> bluesabre: menulibre is in the packageset.  Also, syncs are uploads.
[10:47] <bluesabre> hm
[10:48] <bluesabre> why did I get rejected then when I tried to push menulibre 2.0.5 for trusty for sru?
[10:49] <Unit193> You are packageset for Xubuntu Utopic+
[10:49] <bluesabre> I thought they enabled it for trusty as well
[10:49] <bluesabre> also, where do you view these stats?
[10:49] <bluesabre> I dig around a lot and think I get the right info
[10:50] <Unit193> Oh, that's been changed, yeah.  I see, thought you meant menulibre/utopic, it's still not in trusty, nevermind.
[10:51] <bluesabre> but yeah, is there a link with packageset info, or a command?
[10:53] <Unit193> mugshot and whiskermenu are both not in there.  ubuntu-upload-permission, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/
[10:54]  * bluesabre bookmarks
[10:54] <Unit193> Just bookmark/remember people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive for that matter.
[10:55] <bluesabre> nice
[10:55]  * elfy did too
[10:56] <Unit193> bluesabre: Ping you tonight with the link, or you'll remember?
[10:57] <bluesabre> I'll probably remember.
[10:58] <knome> heh, there's weird packages in the xubuntu packageset
[10:58] <knome> like elyxer
[10:58] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[10:58] <Unit193> OK, debdiff added too.
[10:58] <knome> bluesabre, break it break it!!
[10:58] <bluesabre> Unit193: should we use quilt with native packages?
[11:02] <Unit193> It's native, not quilt, so I'm going with no.  debian-installer and apt both also just make direct changes.  Also, IMO not quite as bad as it'd normally be, as I'm sure we'll sync the next release for V, right?
[11:03] <bluesabre> right
[11:03] <bluesabre> ok
[11:03] <bluesabre> I'll upload it when I get back tonight
[11:04] <bluesabre> going to see doctor who tonight in the theater
[11:04] <bluesabre> so, I'll be on late
[11:04] <elfy> do you want to know what happens before you go?
[11:04] <elfy> :p
[11:04] <bluesabre> nope
[11:04] <bluesabre> kthxbai
[11:04] <elfy> heh
[11:05] <Unit193> bluesabre: Have fun!  Dressing up?  Want me to tell you about the new doctor? :D
[11:05] <bluesabre> nah
[11:05] <knome> Unit193, bluesabre: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages
[11:05] <bluesabre> Some of our friends are dressing up, but we're still new to this whole thing :)
[11:06] <Unit193> That works, knome.
[11:06] <bluesabre> theres an extra space before  Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Codename
[11:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh please tell me Matt wasn't your fav?
[11:07] <knome> bluesabre, lol.
[11:07] <bluesabre> Unit193: so far, I like Matt best, 10 second, don't really care for 9
[11:07] <bluesabre> haven't watched any classic
[11:07] <Unit193> Geeez... :(
[11:07] <knome> bluesabre, can't see that in the moin markup :)
[11:08] <bluesabre> knome: the html parser is hallucinating
[11:08] <bluesabre> ;)
[11:08] <knome> yep.
[11:58] <brainwash> bluesabre: do we need a bug fix release for trusty to fix bug 1313838 ?
[12:00] <brainwash> is it sru worthy? there is a workaround to fix it manually
[12:15] <bluesabre> I didn't fix that with the latest version uploaded to trusty? I'll take a look later and SRU it in if needed.
[12:15] <bluesabre> heading out now, bbl
[12:33] <ochosi> bluesabre: check out what exactly?
[13:08] <Luyin> bbl
[20:56] <Unit193> xfce4-power-manager 1.3.2-1 landed in Debian experimental, nothing in the changelog of interest.
[21:00] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have pkg-xfce commit access?
[21:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: Bumped the xfpm packaging ver.
[21:54] <brainwash> skellat: can we close bug 1211933 ? I'm not familiar with this issue, but the report is still open and there does not seem to be any progress
[21:59] <skellat> brainwash: The problem isn't on our end but on Ubuntu Customization Kit's.  LP Bug 840094 is what caused the change that UCK doesn't expect that caused the bug.  Frankly we'd need to re-test with something recent to see if this is still happening.  Mark it Incomplete and it'll expire out in 60 days barring any further action.
[22:28] <Unit193> bluesabre: Erm, xfce4-power-manager-plugins depends on xfce4-panel, didn't you want to bundle all plugins into, well, the plugins package?
[22:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: Would you prefer to drop the dep, or xfce4-panel | lxpanel  it?


 well it is going well for stuff since libreoffice draw was a little sparse once it got added fairly late. At the point where I simply add the changes for each new version (re @tsimonq2: @lynorian How's the manual? :))
[02:15] <guiverc> tsimonq2, i just put a [brand] new disk in `hp prodesk 600 g3 sff (i5-7500, 8gb, nvidia geforce gt710 (gk208b))` so no OS installed; booted lubuntu mantic; switched sources to noble then `apt update; apt upgrade calamares` & let it upgrade what it wanted.. full disk install worked ; on reboot I got a secure-uefi error, but system booted & no warning/errors on 2nd boot
[02:47] <guiverc> second install (same box) manual & unable-to-resize partition failure; was filing bug report then aborted (will reboot & try again)
[03:40] <guiverc> repeated manual-partition install ; all good this time.. disk wasn't in same state at start (as a result of failure), but I don't see any (new pacakaging) installer issue, just failure to change size (i was increasing ESP from 300mb to 600mb in last install; reported as ~600 this time so no change made)
[03:48] <guiverc> waaaaah ... that 'new' install I want to keep is updating & reports itself as noble...  I didn't want a development install but lunar :(
[03:48] <guiverc> s/lunar/mantic ^
 Xubuntu  noble ISO arrived ..http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[04:52] <guiverc> wow !  @Leokolb
 I'm glad to hear it, let me know how I can help :) (re @lynorian: well it is going well for stuff since libreoffice draw was a little sparse once it got added fairly late. At the point where I simply add the changes for each new version)
 guiverc: ooooh I knew bumping two versions would do something, thanks for testing :)
 Finally :D (re @Leokolb: Xubuntu  noble ISO arrived ..http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/)
 @guiverc spelling correction - tks Chris!
[09:47] <guiverc> not a problem (it may not have been noticed on reports without correct tag)
 changed repos to noble and updating ...
[17:08] <tsimonq2> W: See /build/chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details (possibly the package libgnutls30:amd64 is at fault)
[17:08] <tsimonq2> Hm, looks like Noble's livefs FTBFS.
[17:08]  * tsimonq2 is at the airport
[17:08] <tsimonq2> I'll be boarding here soon.
 Have a good trip!!!
 Thanks :D
[20:23] <arraybolt3> *yawns*
 Ohai
[21:27] <arraybolt3> lo
 Hey from Detroit!
 Omw to Frankfurt soon
 Snow here in NY, it stayed all day.
 Enjoy your time @tsimonq2


[13:59] <jose> mhall119: is it possible to edit http://uds.ubuntu.com/agenda/, the recordings part, and point to ubuntuonair?
[13:59] <jose> plenaries have been hosted there in the past
[19:41] <mhall119> jose: they have? I thought we only put them on summit.u.c
[21:19] <jose> mhall119: last plenaries were at uonair