[12:37] <jenda> @now
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 13 2006, 22:37:29 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 8 hours 22 minutes
[01:03] <jenda> @now
[01:03] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 13 2006, 23:03:46 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 7 hours 56 minutes
[03:06] <Burgundavia> hello everybody
[03:06] <johnlittle> Hi
[03:07] <Hobbsee> hey Burgundavia
[03:07] <Hobbsee> @now sydney
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 14 2006, 11:07:08 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 5 hours 52 minutes
[03:07] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 14 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 00:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 22:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 22 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Sep 06:00: Technical Board
[03:07] <Hobbsee> hmmm.
[03:07] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: we are meeting about the UWN
[03:07] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: cool, sorry, didnt know.  i'll shut up :P
[03:08] <nixternal_> hiya Burgundavia
[03:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: oor Burgundavia failed to add it to fridge
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Riddell: true that.
[03:09] <Burgundavia> Riddell: the latter
[03:10] <poningru> sorry what was the gobby server?
[03:10] <Burgundavia> ok, gobby session up
[03:10] <jsgotangco> wow UWN meeting neat-o
[03:10] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue14  has the IP
[03:11] <Burgundavia> I had an agenda and then I left it at work
[03:11] <Burgundavia> so here goes:
[03:11] <Burgundavia> the first thing I would like to raise is that of ending out plain text
[03:12] <Burgundavia> sending rather
[03:13] <Riddell> we do send out plain text
[03:13] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: i am going to do the additons for Kubuntu, unless of course Riddell beats me to it
[03:13] <Burgundavia> we have had several requests
[03:13] <Riddell> nixternal_: go ahead
[03:14] <nixternal_> no problem..i am adding the stuff from the knot 3 report anyways ;)
[03:14] <poningru> Burgundavia: request for?
[03:14] <Burgundavia> thoughts on process?
[03:15] <poningru> I thought we already sent it out in plain text
[03:15] <Burgundavia> we stopped last week
[03:15] <Riddell> what happened last week?
[03:15] <Riddell> nixternal_: screenshot of old and new gamma setup screen http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/gamma.png
[03:16] <jsgotangco> WHOA
[03:16] <poningru> nice
[03:16] <Riddell> oh, just a pointer to the wiki page
[03:16] <nixternal_> thx Riddell !
[03:17] <adamant1988> ok, here I am... gosh you people need to keep me informed better
[03:17] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: it will go back to the wiki in a few hours
[03:17] <nixternal_> ok..cool
[03:17] <Burgundavia> so, back to the first question
[03:18] <jenda> Could someone please pastebin the log of the meeting so far?
[03:18] <nixternal_> i might get on here in a second
[03:18] <Riddell> Burgundavia: sending out the text rather than a link is much preferable, a link should be included of course for added image goodness
[03:18] <Burgundavia> the issue is processing it to nice looking text
[03:18] <jenda> Riddell: +1
[03:18] <Burgundavia> currently we have some moinism that I would like to remove
[03:18] <Riddell> the wiki text already looks decent
[03:18] <jenda> Burgundavia: that's ten minutes work apiece, I think
[03:18] <Riddell> editing it for sanity isn't too hard before sending
[03:19] <jenda> Or we could even set up an automatic parser.
[03:19] <Burgundavia> can somebody add how to do it on the the /Release page?
[03:19] <Burgundavia> I just need somebody to either create a process or do it
[03:19] <poningru> auto parser?
[03:19] <poningru> oh
[03:20] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: i can do the "text" portion if need be
[03:20] <Burgundavia> a volunteer? jenda? Riddell?
[03:20] <nixternal_> it is easy, plus kmail doesn't screw it up
[03:20] <Burgundavia> ok, nixternal_ you are one
[03:20] <Burgundavia> s/one/on/
[03:20] <nixternal_> kool
[03:20] <Riddell> copy, paste.  easy
[03:20] <nixternal_> yup Riddell  ;)
[03:20] <Burgundavia> I want to get rid of some of the moinisms at the same time
[03:20] <nixternal_> kmail controls at 76 i think..so it is safe for all clients
[03:20] <jenda> Burgundavia: at three AM, I can't, but if it's still open tomorrow, I'll hop on it.
[03:21] <Burgundavia> ok, we have volunteers for that
[03:21] <Burgundavia> next topic: thoughts on the current layout?
[03:22] <jenda> I like it.
[03:22] <Burgundavia> I want to break out the Distro specific stuff (Ubuntu, K, Edu) into the more general news, as I did with Riddell's stuff last week
[03:22] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: i like the current layout...my favorite of course was the layout that mgalvin did..however you have gotten close to emulating it..so i think it is good
[03:22] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: how was mgalvins different?
[03:22] <jenda> a link, perhaps?
[03:22] <nixternal_> well, if the template hasn't changed, it is still there
[03:23] <nixternal_> the ones prior to 13 i believe, were just quick news blobs, which was cool...however, i think the new layout allows for "more" information to get out
[03:23] <Burgundavia> the template has been signifcantly edited, but his old versions are there
[03:23] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:23] <nixternal_> no biggy..this layout is good...the layout in between was ey
[03:24] <Burgundavia> any other feedback on the current layout
[03:24] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:24] <adamant1988> can I get a link?
[03:24] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue6
[03:24] <Burgundavia> that is an old version
[03:24] <adamant1988> sorry, I've been so focused on my local efforts I haven't been involved with much in the team -_-
[03:24] <Rinchen> The one you have in Gobby is ok
[03:24] <nixternal_> ok..well right now we are UWN specific, so on-topic from this point on...
[03:25] <Burgundavia> ok, plase provide feedback as needed ot hte marketing team
[03:25] <Burgundavia> next topic
[03:25] <Burgundavia> different people responsible for different pieces
[03:25] <poningru> actually one quick point
[03:25] <adamant1988> query about the newsletter... it's actually a newsletter right? like we send it out?
[03:25] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: yes, to ubuntu-news
[03:25] <nixternal_> yes adamant1988
[03:25] <Burgundavia> poningru: go
[03:26] <poningru> I think the stuff for security updates, new bug fixes etc.
[03:26] <poningru> should go in the end
[03:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:26] <nixternal_> well security updates are pretty important
[03:26] <adamant1988> ok... put the boring stuff smack dab in the front.
[03:26] <Burgundavia> the LTS stuff?
[03:26] <adamant1988> more people will actually read it there.
[03:26] <poningru> well after the in the press stuff atleast
[03:26] <nixternal_> usually between releases though, there aren't that many "security" releases if i am in the right state of mind heree
[03:27] <Burgundavia> so, move the LTS stuff to after the in the press stuff
[03:27] <jsgotangco> we can put very critical bugs and stuff at the top just in case but we can put them generally near the end
[03:27] <jenda> we don't _want_ people to read boring stuff.
[03:27] <poningru> Burgundavia: yeah thats what I was thinking
[03:27] <Burgundavia> and the security stuff?
[03:27] <nixternal_> jenda: unless you are hardcore, the security stuff is boring ;)
[03:27] <jenda> The technical things that the average user does not even understand should be at the bottom.
[03:27] <Riddell> I was about to say what poningru said
[03:27] <jsgotangco> we add *very* ciritical stuff at the top similar to our xorg experience
[03:27] <jenda> nixternal: it is, but don't judge my hard-core-ness ;)
[03:28] <jsgotangco> but those come far between
[03:28] <nixternal_> jsgotangco: +1
[03:28] <nixternal_> jenda: haha
[03:28] <poningru> yeah what jsgotangco said sounds good
[03:28] <Burgundavia> so move the security and updates to below in the press?
[03:28] <jenda> Yes
[03:28] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:28] <Burgundavia> poningru: can you make the edit to the template and 14?
[03:29] <Riddell> shouldn't we list new packages in dapper-updates too?
[03:29] <Burgundavia> next point: people doing stuff, assign or not?
[03:29] <Burgundavia> Riddell: we do
[03:29] <Burgundavia> or at least, we should be
[03:30] <Burgundavia> do people feel that the current method of everybody editing everything works, or should we impose a bit more structure on it?
[03:30] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: i say we get people who want to help out and assign..in the past the "hey the marketing team has the UWN now, you can contribute" hasn't worked so good
[03:30] <jenda> Burgundavia: that would make sense if we can make sure there is always a person who knows the stuff in question - ie. a person who watches security updates anyway is a good bet - OTOH, I"m not sure if we can do that for every section.
[03:30] <adamant1988> perhaps there should be a section on community involvement?
[03:30] <nixternal_> but the current team has been doing an amazing job at the same time
[03:30] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: yes, good idea
[03:31] <adamant1988> interesting projects that are happening, ways to help out, etc.
[03:31] <jsgotangco> well i would say anyone diving in is a good thing, making contribution easier for new comers, but I think there should be at least 1 editorial contact who always oversees the stuff generally
[03:31] <jenda> adamant1988: +1
[03:31] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: that would be me, currently
[03:31] <john_little> Lost my net..back
[03:31] <Burgundavia> I have deliberately avoiding taking any title, however
[03:31] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: that's fine, it doesnt need one i think, just someone looking over would be fine
[03:32] <jsgotangco> (title that is)
[03:32] <adamant1988> That way you can emphasis community involvement and spirit through the news letter.
[03:32] <Burgundavia> if I say I am the "Release Manager", does that work?
[03:32] <Rinchen> it does.
[03:32] <Burgundavia> that avoids the whole "chief editor" stuff
[03:32] <Riddell> I don't see what's wrong with chief editor
[03:32] <adamant1988> Burgundavia: are you in charge of everything?
[03:33] <Riddell> so long as you reliably take care of it each week (i.e. send it out or make sure someone else it sending it out)
[03:33] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: mostly
[03:33] <adamant1988> Burgundavia: then your title should reflect that.
[03:33] <adamant1988> :)
[03:33] <Burgundavia> I want to make certain I am "stepping above myself" in this
[03:33] <nixternal_> i think we can rely on Burgundavia taking care of it...he isn't going anywhere ;)
[03:34] <adamant1988> Burgundavia: every good organization and project needs a "go to man"
[03:34] <jenda> I do ;) But any name has the same problem. Let's just leave it at the good old meritocratic self, that whoever is at the time the person who takes care we have a UWN every now and then be the person who sends it out and thus checks it as the last... currently Corey... does that work?
[03:34] <Burgundavia> johnlittle: you have been very active, thoughts?
[03:34] <adamant1988> surely.
[03:34] <john_little> I'm afraid I missed the discussion. Lost connectivity.
[03:35] <Burgundavia> john_little: we were discussing roles
[03:35] <john_little> But you've been the guy getting UWN done so some kind of official maintainer/editor status is fine with me
[03:35] <Burgundavia> we started off with general roles, but it quickly got to me and whether I should take a formal title (I am mixed on this)
[03:36] <john_little> Its a product and a product generally needs a lead
[03:36] <poningru> lets make it official
[03:36] <jenda> I think it is irrelevant to the UWN itself, and we might want to go back to the dilemma if we should assign roles to the sections of UWN
[03:36] <Burgundavia> ok, other roles
[03:37] <Burgundavia> yes, that
[03:37] <Burgundavia> I wouldn't mind if people said "I want to the primary editor of X"
[03:37] <poningru> that actually sounds good but I think we should have people covering different sections of the community instead of the different sections of the UWN
[03:38] <jenda> hmm
[03:38] <Burgundavia> ok, that works
[03:38] <poningru> ofcourse for things like bugs/ new apps in edgy it would have to be that one person
[03:38] <nixternal_> haha Riddell ;)
[03:38] <nixternal_> thanks!
[03:38] <nixternal_> promotions come quick around here
[03:38] <jenda> While Riddell himself rises to the rank of 'Supreme'
[03:38] <jenda> ;)
[03:39] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: i can help out with the security and bug stuff as well, since that is another part of my life i guess you could say
[03:39] <Burgundavia> ok, that is good
[03:39] <Burgundavia> Xubuntu? Edubuntu?
[03:39] <jsgotangco> no please no
[03:39] <nixternal_> haha
[03:39] <jsgotangco> im too busy at the moment with non-technical edubuntu work here
[03:39] <Burgundavia> would somebody mind creating a /Contacts page to list all these people?
[03:39] <nixternal_> one of these days I will be concentrating a heck of lot more on Edubuntu
[03:39] <poningru> sure
[03:40] <Burgundavia> lets leave the Xubuntu and Edubuntu stuff empty for now
[03:40] <Burgundavia> press coverage?
[03:40] <Burgundavia> john_little: you have done well on this, do you mind being the person that people contact about that?
[03:40] <Riddell> someone who subscribed to google alerts
[03:40] <john_little> I can do that
[03:40] <nixternal_> just so everyone knows..even though I am considered the "Kubuntu" guy as well as Riddell, please feel free to input information as well..we may hack it a little, but if it is relevant, i am sure it will stay
[03:40] <nixternal_> john_little: +1 for press stuff
[03:41] <Burgundavia> absolutely, I want to be clear that these roles don't preclude anybody else editing
[03:42] <nixternal_> we are more/less PoCs
[03:42] <Burgundavia> further thoughts on this topic?
[03:42] <jenda> of course - these are only the people who are held guilty if the section is blank at release time..
[03:42] <Burgundavia> heh
[03:43] <john_little> Just the we probably need to reach out to the Edubuntu/Xubuntu folks and see if they want a point person for UWN
[03:43] <nixternal_> hey...how about adding a riddle or hacker game to each release?
[03:43] <nixternal_> see if people can crack it each week
[03:43] <jsgotangco> those teams are too small and busy at the moment to have point persons
[03:43] <adamant1988> sudoku!
[03:43] <nixternal_> haha
[03:43] <nixternal_> ya..sudoku is my train game
[03:43] <adamant1988> I vote for sudokus
[03:44] <john_little> its just a few minutes of work each week. Can't hurt to ask.
[03:44] <jenda> I don't think we need a sudoku in there, really...
[03:44] <adamant1988> jenda: I was kidding :P
[03:44] <jenda> ;)
[03:44] <jenda> good
[03:44] <nixternal_> i wasn't ;)
[03:44] <nixternal_> haha
[03:44] <adamant1988> Not about the community section though.
[03:44] <Burgundavia> ok, any further serious topics
[03:44] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:45] <nixternal_> release days, and the latest time to have it complete?
[03:45] <adamant1988> I think that would be nice to have, I would like to tell people where they can help get involved.
[03:45] <poningru> arr?
[03:45] <nixternal_> adamant1988: that is everywhere already
[03:45] <john_little> Burgundavia: Are you going to edit the wiki to reflect this new structure?
[03:45] <nixternal_> we don't need to do old work over and over and oever and over again
[03:45] <adamant1988> nixternal_: so? condense it and put it in one place
[03:45] <Burgundavia> john_little: the new people, yes
[03:46] <nixternal_> adamant1988: that horse is dead, quit beating it ;)
[03:46] <adamant1988> I'mt alking about all kinds of projects, not just marketing team stuff
[03:46] <Burgundavia> somebody needs to create a /Contacts
[03:46] <nixternal_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Contacts ?
[03:46] <poningru> Burgundavia: sorry working on it
[03:46] <poningru> mom called
[03:46] <nixternal_> kool..thanks poningru
[03:46] <Burgundavia> poningru: thanks for everything
[03:47] <john_little> poningru: never apologize for actually doing something :)
[03:47] <Burgundavia> ok, shall we wrap up this worldwind meeting and get some hacking on the UWN done?
[03:47] <nixternal_> hey Burgundavia what are the release days?
[03:47] <nixternal_> saturday or sunday?
[03:47] <Burgundavia> Saturday, 7am UTC currently (which is midnight my time)
[03:47] <Burgundavia> make that Sunday, 7am UTC
[03:47] <nixternal_> we need to have a set schedule..just in case something comes up with anyone..we can say, here it is set in stone
[03:48] <Burgundavia> unless the wiki dies... grumble
[03:48] <nixternal_> haha ya
[03:48] <nixternal_> cool
[03:48] <nixternal_> if the wiki dies in the future, maybe we can fire up a quick gobby session, or suffer through a pastebin
[03:48] <Rinchen> A reliable release date and quick punt to the Fridge gives everyone the perception that UWN has it's act together.
[03:48] <Burgundavia> gobby it will be
[03:48] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:49] <nixternal_> does canonical still have their servers up for gobby?
[03:49] <john_little> I say we name nixternal wiki maintainer so when it dies we can blame him
[03:49] <poningru> Burgundavia: sorry what was your official title again?
[03:49] <poningru> Burgundavia: Chief Editor?
[03:49] <nixternal_> im sick of maintaining the wiki
[03:49] <Burgundavia> Chief Editor was what I think everybody agreed on
[03:49] <nixternal_> is he going with a title?
[03:49] <nixternal_> ok..kool
[03:49] <jenda> darn, there goes the Marketing Team's wiki guy...
[03:49] <Burgundavia> yes, I will take the title
[03:50] <nixternal_> aye aye chief
[03:50] <nixternal_> ;p
[03:50] <john_little> another bullet on ye olde resume
[03:50] <Rinchen> +1 on Nixternal (if I get to vote) :-)
[03:50] <nixternal_> whoa...+1 for what?
[03:51] <Rinchen> that you get the title and the blame :-)
[03:51] <john_little> being the wiki blame guy
[03:51] <nixternal_> don't vote me any more..i have a doc freeze to contend with tonight
[03:51] <Burgundavia> ok, if we are done, lets move back to -marketing
[03:51] <Riddell> nixternal_: what's the freeze?
[03:52] <Burgundavia> last piece, I need somebody to write up the results of the meeting for the mailing list
[03:52] <Burgundavia> normally I would do it myself, but I am triple-booked tonight
[03:52] <nixternal_> doc team has a freeze within 24 hours
[03:52] <nixternal_> i have to finish release notes and knot 3
[03:52] <jenda> everyone seems to be busy...
[03:52] <Rinchen> Give me 2 hours Nix and I'll be free to help you if you want it
[03:52] <jenda> I'll do it then, Burgundavia
[03:53] <Burgundavia> jenda: thanks
[03:53] <nixternal_> thx Rinchen, in 2 hours i will be home as well
[03:53] <jenda> But give me the entire log - I came at 1:15
[03:53] <Burgundavia> thank you everybody for coming out
[03:53] <Riddell> nixternal_: for all edgy docs
[03:53] <Riddell> ?
[03:53] <Burgundavia> the UWN rocks thanks to all of you!
[03:53] <nixternal_> yes Riddell
[03:53] <Burgundavia> now move off the channel
[03:53] <nixternal_> haha
[03:53] <jenda> Thank you for setting a meeting time we could all make it to ;)
[03:54] <Rinchen> :-)
[03:54] <Riddell> 5 hours until distro meeting, time to snooze
[03:54] <poningru> aww
[03:55] <nixternal_> g'nite Riddell
[03:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:31] <imbrandon> @schedule us/central
[07:31] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 14 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 09:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 07:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board
[07:32] <imbrandon> @schedule
[07:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Sep 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 14:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 12:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 20:00: Technical Board
[07:54] <mdz> @schedule US/Pacific
[07:54] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 14 Sep 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 07:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 05:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 05:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 13:00: Technical Board
[08:05] <Hobbsee> hey mdz.  another hour.
[08:06] <nixternal> zzZzzZzZ
[08:06] <nixternal> but i wanna watch ;)
[08:06] <kwwii> etc != utc, or?
[08:08] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[08:08] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 14 Sep 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 09:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 07:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board
[08:08] <nixternal> ^^ where kwwii should be ;)
[08:08] <kwwii> hehe...no doubt
[08:08] <nixternal> 18 Sep 09:00: LoCo
[08:08] <nixternal> I hope Ubuntu Chicago isn't expected at that one
[08:08] <nixternal> oh wait..we will be there..that is 09:00 our time ;)
[08:11] <fabbione> @schedule Rome
[08:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 14 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Sep 16:00: LoCo | 19 Sep 14:00: Community Council | 20 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 21 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board
[08:11] <kwwii> hi fabbione
[08:12] <fabbione> lo
[08:49] <Keybuk> *yawns&
[08:54] <pitti> hi
[08:57] <mdz> morning
[08:57] <fschoep> Good morning
[08:57] <fabbione> morning
[08:57] <mvo> good morning
[08:58] <heno> morning
[08:58] <pitti> mvo: get well soon!
[08:58] <Kamion> morning
[08:59] <mdz> ping -b
[08:59] <mvo> thanks pitti!
[08:59] <pitti> mdz: 'no such option' :(
[08:59] <Riddell> hi
[09:00] <fabbione> pitti: use the other ping :)
[09:00] <fabbione> pitti: -b -> broadcast
[09:01] <pitti> fabbione: I guessed so :)
[09:01] <mdz> doko,sfllaw,BenC,ogra: ping
[09:01] <kwwii> hi Riddell
[09:01] <pitti> fabbione: I use fping for the more 37117 stuff
[09:01] <fabbione> BenC is not online afaict
[09:02] <fabbione> doko is at OOOCon? or something
[09:02] <mdz> I spoke to doko today and he said he would be here
[09:02] <pitti> ogra is flying to the US today
[09:02] <pitti> to LTSP conf
[09:02] <doko> fabbione: still online
[09:03] <sfllaw> mdz: Pong.
[09:03] <rodarvus> good morning
[09:03] <mdz> missing BenC
[09:04] <mdz> seb128: will you start us off this morning?
[09:04] <seb128> Done:
[09:04] <seb128> - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
[09:04] <seb128> - bug day
[09:04] <seb128> - caugth up with desktop-list mails lag
[09:04] <seb128> - VAC
[09:04] <seb128> - desktop CD testing
[09:04] <seb128> .
[09:04] <seb128> To do:
[09:04] <seb128> - keep triaging bugs and fix some of them too
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: your Karma will hit 10M very soon, I guess :)
[09:04] <mdz> seb128: do you feel older?
[09:05] <seb128> mdz: no, I feel wiser though :p
[09:05] <dholbach> haha
[09:05] <seb128> ;)
[09:05] <seb128> pitti: right ;)
[09:05] <mdz> seb128: did you test whether your usplash problem is fixed?
[09:05] <seb128> pitti: I'm first now, waouh :p
[09:06] <seb128> mdz: yep, works fine now, I let mjg59 know when I tried
[09:06] <mdz> ok, cool, thanks
[09:06] <seb128> np
[09:06] <mdz> infinity: next?
[09:06] <infinity> Done
[09:06] <infinity>  * Assisted with the Knot-3 release (ongoing), including archive admin tasks and chasing up a mess of related soyuz issues.
[09:06] <infinity>  * General liasing with Team Soyuz regarding bugs affecting distro recently/currently.
[09:06] <infinity>  * General buildd mangling and processing.
[09:06] <infinity>  * Bootstrapped fpc for MOTU.
[09:06] <infinity>  * Finished stacked-livefs, but didn't roll it out in production for fear of hiseously breaking the knot-3 release with the (inevitable) bugs.  Will roll it out for dailies after knot-3 is out.
[09:07] <infinity> To do
[09:07] <infinity>  * Roll out stacked-livefs
[09:07] <infinity>  * Get ddeb exports working with pitti
[09:07] <infinity>  * Lots of bug triaging and fixing
[09:07] <infinity> Err, "other random faff" in the "done" section, like a php5 upstream bump, etc.
[09:07] <mdz> infinity: did you do the seed changes for larger-livefs?
[09:07] <pitti> infinity: oh, cool, you did the PHP merge? thanks
[09:07] <infinity> mdz: No, haven't done the new seed, though I can commit it later.
[09:08] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, it's in queue/unapproved, waiting for knot-3 to fly.
[09:08] <pitti> \o/
[09:08] <mdz> infinity: have you and Kamion worked out what changes need to be made there?
[09:08] <Mithrandir> infinity: (psst, it's flights that flew, knots are tied, or something.)
[09:08] <infinity> Mithrandir: Thpt.
[09:08] <sfllaw> Not another knot joke.
[09:09] <Keybuk> They're totally knot funny at this time in the morning
[09:09] <infinity> mdz: Should be a straightforward additoin to the structure to place it above live.
[09:09] <infinity> mdz: I'll test with germinate to make sure I'm not on crack, of course, and pass it by Colin before I blow up the world.
[09:10] <mdz> infinity: ok, that's well behind schedule now, please make sure that it lands immediately after knot-3
[09:10] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[09:10] <mdz> doko: next
[09:11] <doko> status:
[09:11] <doko>  - edgy-toolchain: implemented
[09:11] <doko>  - edgy-toolchain+1: no status change, opening of edgy+1 needed,
[09:11] <doko>    test rebuilds of the archive needed.
[09:11] <doko>  - python-roadmap: beta available, need to go over the list of
[09:11] <doko>    application packages in main.
[09:11] <doko>  - python2.5: beta available, extension packages are built for
[09:11] <doko>    2.4 and 2.5, rc2 in the archive; needs an update for the final
[09:11] <doko>    2.5 release. will not be the default python in edgy.
[09:11] <doko>  - java-roadmap: good progress, classpath-0.92 based gcj in the
[09:11] <doko>    archive, packages providing jni bindings built natively, built
[09:11] <doko>    the core java packages as native (-gcj) packages.
[09:11] <doko>  - openoffice.org-l10n: delayed
[09:11] <doko> this week:
[09:11] <doko>  - java: ia32-libs updates, fixed issues with the 32bit gcj.
[09:11] <doko>  - openoffice.org: 2.0.4 rc1 updates, native amd64 packages,
[09:11] <doko>    provide test packages for all architectures. look at glibc/kernel
[09:11] <doko>    build problems on sparc, build failures on standard edgy (OOo
[09:11] <doko>    currently only builds in the data center and on the buildd's),
[09:11] <doko>    not in a new edgy installation.
[09:11] <doko>  - other: OOoCon, looking at python2.5 related build bugs.
[09:11] <doko> next week:
[09:11] <doko>  - openoffice.org updates?
[09:12] <doko>  - OOo bug triage
[09:12] <doko>  - hplip update, demanded by several users (sync from debian).
[09:12] <mdz> doko: has the oo.o event been useful?
[09:12] <fabbione> doko: OOo builds here. it might specfic to faure the problem.
[09:12] <doko> mdz: yes, I'll summarize on warthogs.
[09:13] <mdz> doko: 2.0.4rc1 is running well here
[09:13] <doko> fabbione: so let's use standard kernels in the data center (did you build until you had the .deb's?)
[09:13] <mdz> doko: do you know if printing in oo.o is in shape for edgy?  it would be a good idea to talk with tkamppeter
[09:14] <fabbione> doko: yes full build. afaik sparc uses standard kernels at the DC. it might be a race condition on smp code specific for that cpu
[09:14] <doko> mdz: last week when I checked on i386, yes. I can test printing tomorrow again
[09:14] <fabbione> doko: anyway we will dig that out.. just upload.. the buildd have UP kernel anyway
[09:15] <Keybuk> fabbione: elmo using a standard kernel?  that'll be the day <g>
[09:15] <mdz> doko: if there are any open printing bugs, be sure to subscribe ubuntu-printing
[09:15] <mdz> then he'll see them
[09:15] <fabbione> Keybuk: at least faure does.
[09:15] <mdz> is this build failure new with rc1?
[09:15] <doko> mdz: I'm part of the printing group
[09:15] <doko> mdz: sparc?
[09:15] <mdz> doko: sure, but that's the list that tkamppeter is using
[09:16] <doko> the other one: the same as in dapper, sometimes to reproduce on the buildd's, sometimes not (maybe infinity remembers)
[09:16] <doko> mdz: yes, same list
[09:16] <mdz> doko: my point is that he will look at the printing-related bugs if that team is subscribed, and if not, he won't see them
[09:17] <mdz> doko: the build failure is only sparc?
[09:17] <doko> mdz: you can see all printing related reports in the package view.
[09:17] <mdz> doko: hmm? I do not understand what you mean
[09:18] <doko> there are two build failures: apparently the sparc specific one can only be reproduced on faure, the other one can be reproduced on a standard edgy setup, but not on the buildd's and in the data center
[09:18] <pitti> doko: you mean https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-printing/+packagebugs ?
[09:18] <doko> mdz: I mean https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-printing/+packagebugs
[09:19] <mdz> doko: that only shows packages where ubuntu-printing is a bug contact
[09:19] <pitti> OO.o is not a bug contact of u-printing
[09:19] <mdz> doko: whereas there are open printing bugs filed against oo.o
[09:20] <doko> mdz: so you do want the printing group a subscribe of all OOo printing bug reports?
[09:20] <mdz> doko: yes, all printing-related bug reports regardless of the package
[09:20] <mdz> so that till and other printing team members see them
[09:20] <doko> ok, doing that today or tomorrow
[09:21] <mdz> doko: thank you.  is there a schedule for python 2.5 final?
[09:21] <doko> mdz: Sep 18
[09:21] <mdz> oh good, soon
[09:21] <pitti> doko: please not
[09:22] <pitti> doko: oh, wait, please do
[09:22] <mdz> pitti: hmm? :-)
[09:22] <pitti> doko: (I thought you meant making u-printing a bug contact of OO.o)
[09:22] <mdz> doko: I will be sending an email about opening edgy+1, should go out tomorrow
[09:22] <doko> pitti: sure, if you will work on OOo reports ,p
[09:22] <Keybuk> f*censored* f*gagged*! :p
[09:23] <doko> mdz: we currently don't have a posisbility of doing throw-away builds?
[09:23] <Keybuk> (though I prefer funky, which Mark changed the name to in the screenshots :p)
[09:23] <mdz> doko: we'll find a way
[09:23] <mdz> Keybuk: I will attempt to hold that discussion without addressing that particular question
[09:24] <mdz> doko: ok, thanks
[09:24] <mdz> iwj: next
[09:24] <iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: A couple of examples deployed, one (well, one source, many binaries) in the default install.  Need to go through and change more packages.
[09:24] <iwj> suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Deployed.
[09:24] <iwj> automated-testing-deployment: No change since last report.
[09:24] <iwj> firefox beta 2 merge: Done except for a quick final test and upload.
[09:24] <iwj> todo: bugfixing, automated-testing-deployment, add some more Breakses.
[09:25] <mdz> iwj,mvo: are any of the existing breaks test cases exercised by the dist-upgrade test?
[09:25] <iwj> mdz: I need a UVF exception for firefox ...
[09:25] <iwj> mdz: The m-f-l-all should be exercised by it.
[09:26] <doko> mdz: what was the decision / further steps about OOo?
[09:26] <iwj> That is, breezy's packages match the breaks in dapper's m-f-l-all.
[09:26] <mdz> I'm not sure which set of packages the dist-upgrader starts with; if it gets language-support-en then that's certainly there
[09:26] <mdz> doko: what's the question?
[09:26] <mvo> mdz: the problem with hte breaks on upgrade is that the upgrader needs to use a new dpkg/apt to pre-caclulate the upgrade to see if it will work
[09:26] <Kamion> iwj: s/breezy/dapper; s/in dapper/in edgy/ ?
[09:26] <iwj> Sorry, yes.
[09:26] <mdz> mvo: doesn't the dist-upgrader handle that?
[09:27] <doko> mdz: upload to edgy? upload to edgy with the native amd64 packages as a default?
[09:27] <mdz> doko: if the build failure is new in this version, that needs to be fixed first
[09:27] <mdz> doko: regarding amd64, wasn't it only yesterday that you asked for testing?  was there any feedback?  how well do they work for you?
[09:27] <mvo> mdz: it could install apt/dpkg early, but to make it possible to undo the upgrade fully, we would have to downgrade apt again (or LD_PRELOAD it or something)
[09:28] <mdz> doko: do you feel that it's clearly solid enough for a feature freeze exception?
[09:28] <iwj> mvo: I had the impression you'd done that, or at least decided to and it was easy ...
[09:29] <mdz> mvo: so long as the apt upgrade succeeds, I don't think it's necessary to try to downgrade it if a later step fails
[09:29] <mdz> the system should still be consistent
[09:30] <infinity> An apt upgrade will mean a libc and libstdc++ upgrade, though.
[09:30] <doko> mdz: I'll recheck the printing first. the build failure is the same I do see with 2.0.3 in edgy.
[09:30] <infinity> Among other things.
[09:30] <iwj> We could build the new apt against dapper if that would help.
[09:30] <mdz> iwj: regarding firefox and UVF, yes, we're committed and more or less have to push ahead with it
[09:30] <mvo> what infinity said, and pressing cacncel won't undo all the stuff anymore
[09:31] <iwj> mdz: Right, that's what I thought, but I wanted the formal go-ahead.  Thanks.
[09:31] <mdz> I've exchanged email with Mike Schroepfer at mozilla and he feels there's a reasonable chance that they'll make it in time for us to release with final
[09:31] <iwj> mdz: I'll believe it when I see it.
[09:31] <mdz> they should roll an RC soon, so at worst we should have that
[09:31] <mdz> iwj: one thing, we need to change the Bon Echo branding to Firefox
[09:31] <iwj> mdz: The problem with the dist-upgrader is that it purports to show you what it's going to do before it does anything.
[09:32] <mdz> apparently all of the betas and RCs can be called firefox 2
[09:32] <iwj> mdz: I would like some feedback from upstream before I do that.
[09:32] <iwj> Oh, really.
[09:32] <mdz> iwj: I'll forward you the email from schrep
[09:32] <iwj> I'm not sure where to frob it, either.  It seems quite pervasive.
[09:32] <iwj> email> Thanks.
[09:32] <mdz> they must have a knob somewhere
[09:33] <iwj> I'll see if I can find it.
[09:33] <mdz> we can ask if it's not obvious
[09:33] <iwj> Mmm.
[09:33] <iwj> Can we get back to this dist-upgrader thing ?  It doesn't seem settled.
[09:34] <mdz> iwj: how much of automated-testing-deployment is you and how much will be sysadmin, do you reckon?
[09:34] <mdz> either the dist-upgrader can accomodate breaks in this upgrade, or it can't.  if it can't, we presumably can't use breaks in edgy
[09:34] <iwj> I'm going to deploy it on a machine here first and when that's sorted and working for a month or two then elmo won't look at me like I'm mad when I say I want him to install it.
[09:35] <lifeless> mad, muahah.
[09:35] <lifeless> *sorry*
[09:35] <iwj> mdz: In general it seems to be that because the dist-upgrader wants to show the user what it's going to do, it needs to do one of:
[09:35] <mdz> iwj: sounds like deferral to edgy+1 then
[09:35] <iwj> 1. partially commit by upgrading apt
[09:35] <mvo> I would like to try a solution that involves downloading a new apt, unpacking it and using LD_* magic to use the new code. I think being able to cancel without any permant changes on the system is important
[09:35] <iwj> 2. LD_PRELOAD
[09:35] <iwj> 3. Use algorithms from the previous release.
[09:36] <mdz> I think you and mvo should follow up on this together after the meeting; I can chime in if needed before I crash
[09:36] <Mithrandir> mvo: that sounds almost as crackful as just using LVM snapshots and rolling back if the upgrade fails, else commit it.
[09:36] <iwj> mdz: OK.
[09:36] <mdz> iwj: thanks
[09:36] <pitti> btw, wrt firefox, many other big distros upgrade their stables from 1.0.x to 1.5.x; so Debian and we are pretty much alone now when it comes to security patch backporting :( so we still have a problem
[09:36] <lifeless> Mithrandir: I didn't think LVM snapshots had rollback yet
[09:36] <lifeless> just snapshot and point in time access
[09:36] <pitti> iwj: I think we have to re-consider upgrading breezy to 1.5 again :/
[09:36] <mdz> zul: hi?
[09:36] <zul> mdz: hi
[09:36] <iwj> pitti: Hmmmm.
[09:37] <fabbione> lifeless: you just mount the other snapshot to roll back
[09:37] <lifeless> fabbione: ah, *duh me*
[09:37] <pitti> iwj: I'd give up on hoary, it's EOLed in a month anyway; but we have to do sth. about breezy
[09:37] <mdz> zul: would you like to present an update?
[09:37] <zul> sure
[09:37] <mvo> Mithrandir: that would be interessting anyway (if feasible at all)
[09:37] <zul> tis week: xen bug fixing, kernel security updates, bug triaging
[09:37] <fabbione> mvo: that's something elmo and I discussed at UDU and it's not possible
[09:38] <zul> next week: xen bug fixing, update wiki, bug triagin
[09:38] <mdz> zul: wiki?
[09:38] <iwj> pitti: I don't know if dapper's source builds on breezy but it might not be so far off.
[09:38] <zul> yeah i renamed the xen kernels so they are more in line with the edgy kernels
[09:38] <mvo> fabbione: ok
[09:39] <Mithrandir> zul: we need to app a suffix to the version or something so we won't end up with a conflict with the regular kernel packages over /lib/modules.
[09:39] <Mithrandir> s/app/add/
[09:39] <mdz> zul: do you have a wiki page which explains how to get up and running with the xen packages?
[09:39] <fabbione> Mithrandir: uh why? xen is at .16 and we are at .17
[09:40] <mdz> fabbione: sheer luck ;-)
[09:40] <zul> mdz: yes just need to update it reflecting the changes
[09:40] <Mithrandir> fabbione: for now, yes.  What happens when we're suddenly both at .18 or .19?
[09:40] <mdz> zul: are you going to make me hunt for it? :-)
[09:40] <fabbione> mdz: the day we can ship from the same source, we can merge into one kernel.. problem goes away
[09:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ^^
[09:40] <mdz> fabbione: we will see
[09:40] <zul> mdz: no of course not ;)
[09:40] <fabbione> the only reason why we did never merge is because xen is always behind
[09:41] <mdz> zul: is it XenOnEdgy?
[09:41] <zul> yes
[09:41] <mdz> ok
[09:41] <mdz> thanks
[09:41] <mdz> dholbach: next
[09:41] <dholbach> Done:
[09:41] <dholbach>     * HUG DAY
[09:41] <dholbach>     * Bug Triage
[09:41] <dholbach>     * Started Telepathy Team
[09:41] <dholbach> TODO:
[09:41] <dholbach>     * more Bug Triage
[09:41] <dholbach>     * another REVU DAY (next week)
[09:41] <dholbach>     * start apt-get.org reviewing
[09:41] <dholbach>     * more work on art-builder
[09:41] <dholbach>     * more Telepathy
[09:42] <mdz> dholbach: has anyone stepped up to do real work on telepathy?
[09:42] <mdz> dholbach: how far along is art-builder?  I've received inquiries
[09:42] <dholbach> mdz: we have 3 people working quite actively on packaging (apart from me), they're doing good work and they're going to be good MOTUs
[09:43] <mdz> cool!
[09:43] <dholbach> mdz: i'll put more effort into it today and tomorrow and on the WE - next week I should have something presentable
[09:43] <mdz> dholbach: ok, thanks
[09:43] <mdz> heno: next
[09:43] <dholbach> de rien
[09:44] <heno> Done:
[09:44] <heno> * Assistive technology desktop integration for Edgy -- patches prepared with Chris Jones for gnome-at-preferences and Orca -- BLOCKED - these need review and inclusion by a core dev
[09:44] <heno> * onBoard: Ready for inclusion in main and the CD -- BLOCKED -- needs review and inclusion by a core dev
[09:44] <heno> * ubiquity: Working with upstream and Chris on making an Orca script for Ubiquity to make it more suitable for screen reader use
[09:44] <heno> * Meetings with ACE and ComputerAid charities to talk about a11y collaborations.
[09:44] <heno> * Completed the OpenCD v4.0
[09:44] <heno> To Do:
[09:44] <heno> * Testing Live CD a11y, esp. with ubiquity-Orca script
[09:44] <heno> * Holiday / Move to Oslo
[09:44] <heno> * REQUEST: Could everyone here please run Edgy with AT-SPI switched on for just 20 minutes or so? There is a crash bug (#56452) that we are having a tough time getting a good backtrace on. Many users are seeing it, but it has not yet appeared for any core devs. Thanks!
[09:44] <mdz> heno: those patches sound like they probably need a FF exception, too; please email
[09:44] <Mithrandir> heno: when's the housewarming party? :-)
[09:44] <mdz> heno: are there new winfoss tarballs accompanying opencd 4.0?
[09:45] <heno> mdz: yes, that's why I was getting a bit worried, will do
[09:45] <dholbach> heno: I tried to get a backtrace from at-spi-registryd for quite a while, I'm sorry I was not successful yet. :-/
[09:45] <heno> Mithrandir: weekend after next I guess :)
[09:45] <Mithrandir> heno: woo. :-)
[09:45] <heno> mdz: I'll do those afterwards with fresher packages
[09:45] <mdz> heno: good luck with your move; keep me informed if your schedule changes
[09:45] <Kamion> heno: that's the "start up orca from /usr/bin/ubiquity" thing? I'll try to remember to do that in the next upload
[09:46] <heno> looking to use FF 2 for example
[09:46] <mdz> heno: thanks
[09:46] <heno> mdz: thanks!
[09:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: next
[09:46] <Mithrandir> * misc: Knot 3 release (ongoing), some bug fixing, played a bit with Xen.
[09:46] <Mithrandir> * blocked on: nothing
[09:46] <pitti> heno: is that 'enable assistive technologies' (freely translated) in System->Settings?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> * next week: X bugs
[09:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: anything special on the hit list for knot 3?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> (argh, network)
[09:46] <heno> Kamion: it's more of a fix on the Orca side, I'll email you a summary
[09:47] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: the upstart update should be in now
[09:47] <heno> pitti: yes
[09:47] <Keybuk> at least, the binaries built and didn't show up in unapproved
[09:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: we've had a series of problems, but I think they're all fixed now.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I hope they were in an hour ago too?
[09:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: are the daily heath checks useful?
[09:47] <Kamion> heno: ok, thanks
[09:47] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: about 9 hours ago
[09:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: they're not good enough yet; I need to work with Colin on reordering the information there, I think.
[09:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: did you figure what causes that mono looking for the config at the wrong place?
[09:48] <Kamion> I do need to apply suggestions from mdz
[09:48] <Kamion> on the health checks, to make them less noisy for the release team
[09:48] <mdz> I think I sent an email last week or so
[09:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: unionfs/kernel bug, I think; I filed a bug on launchpad-integration about the same problem.
[09:48] <mdz> but email is sort of a blur
[09:48] <Kamion> you did, I just haven't applied the suggestion yet
[09:49] <Mithrandir> seb128: I _can_ work around it in casper, but it's not ideal and might cause pain for Colin
[09:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've seen the lpi one
[09:49] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's the one
[09:49] <mdz> ok, thanks  Mithrandir
[09:49] <mdz> pitti: next
[09:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: #ubuntu-devel, but what's the candidate casper workaround?
[09:49] <pitti> Done:
[09:49] <pitti>  * security updates: X.org/libxfont, mailman, coordination for kernel
[09:49] <pitti>  * finished cups 1.2.3 merge & upstream version upgrade
[09:49] <pitti>  * gnutls12->13 transition: done everything but gutenprint; this package was merged by tkamppeter, to be uploaded after knot-3
[09:49] <pitti>  * caught up on my overflowing bugs inbox
[09:49] <pitti>  * fixed high-profile langpack-o-matic bug, new edgy langpacks; BLOCKED: dapper needs an urgent update, too, we need *-updates back
[09:49] <pitti>  * started bug fixing in various packages (mainly hal and apport)
[09:49] <pitti>  * CD testing
[09:49] <pitti> Todo:
[09:49] <pitti>  * more CD testing
[09:49] <pitti>  * more security updates
[09:49] <pitti>  * collect low-hanging fruits out of the bug firehose and fix them
[09:49] <pitti>  * care for php 5.1.6 and mysql merges if infinity's workload is too high
[09:49] <pitti>  * apt-get-debug-symbols: provide ddebs on people.u.c, BLOCKED: buildds need to export them first
[09:50] <mdz> pitti: how is till's learning of packaging coming along?
[09:50] <pitti> mdz: after a few rounds of discussion the gutenprint merge now looks fine
[09:50] <pitti> I taught him about a few specifics, otherwise it's going well AFAICS
[09:50] <mdz> pitti: updates can start to be considered again after the new policy and procedures are finalized and published; it's due Friday
[09:50] <pitti> the merge took a while, naturally
[09:50] <pitti> ah, thanks for the update heads-up
[09:51] <mvo_> sorry, network
[09:51] <mdz> pitti: what's the nature of the blockage regarding ddebs?
[09:51] <infinity> mdz: pitti and I just need a quick meeting and deployment day, scheduled for early next week.
[09:51] <mdz> ok
[09:51] <mdz> round tuits
[09:51] <pitti> mdz: the buildds need to use the translation tarball magic to http-export ddebs
[09:51] <infinity> Always with the round tuits.
[09:51] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[09:52] <mdz> fschoep: next?
[09:52] <fschoep> Done:
[09:52] <fschoep>  * usplash-artwork: contact Seveas to get a basic design in
[09:52] <fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: get approval from sabdfl
[09:52] <fschoep> Ongoing:
[09:52] <fschoep>  * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction
[09:52] <fschoep>  * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs
[09:52] <fschoep>  * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds
[09:52] <fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave today
[09:52] <fschoep>  * theme-teams: (try to) package their work
[09:52] <mdz> fschoep: how has the artwork drop at feature freeze been received?
[09:52] <fschoep> mdz: mixed reactions really
[09:52] <mdz> reactions usually are ;-)
[09:52] <fschoep> mdz: most important thing is that sabdfl isn't happy yet
[09:52] <fschoep> mdz: and he's my client ;)
[09:53] <mdz> the opinions of the rest of the world count as well, though
[09:53] <Keybuk> fschoep: if you cause last minute artwork changes ... we know where you live <g>
[09:53] <fschoep> mdz: I wanted to gauge public opinion with Knot 3
[09:53] <fschoep> Keybuk: great, you're all invited since it's bound to happen
[09:53] <mdz> if sabdfl is the *only* one who is pleased, we haven't done the best job ;-)
[09:53] <mdz> fschoep: get something into the knot 3 release announcement?
[09:53] <fschoep> mdz: Uh, didn't pay attention yet, can I still get something in?
[09:54] <dholbach> fschoep: ask Burgundavia
[09:54] <mdz> fschoep: yes, coordinate with Mithrandir
[09:54] <fschoep> OK, great - I'll do that
[09:54] <dholbach> oh, well...
[09:54] <mdz> fschoep: it's not out yet but sounds close
[09:54] <mdz> fschoep: thanks
[09:54] <mdz> mvo_: next
[09:54] <fschoep> mdz: thanks
[09:54] <Mithrandir> fschoep: from my officemates I've had numerous comments along the lines of "wow, that's edgy"?  (for the gdm screen), so that's good.
[09:54] <mvo_> Did:
[09:54] <mvo_> - added popcon/ddtp to UWN make sure the new features get popular
[09:54] <mvo_> - Bugtriage
[09:54] <mvo_> - Bugfixing (g-a-i, apt, u-m, vmware-player, ...)
[09:54] <mvo_> - Google SoC/apt-sync
[09:54] <mvo_> - Fix performance regression in aptitude/synaptic
[09:54] <mvo_> - comand-not-found spec database updated
[09:54] <mvo_> - ddtp description database updated, added more scripts to automate it
[09:54] <mvo_> - improved auto-dist-upgrader testing script, ran it (we do not look good :/)
[09:55] <mvo_> Will do:
[09:55] <mvo_> - bugs
[09:55] <mvo_> - more "frontend" work for the auto-dist-upgrade tester, make it a real package and encourage users to run it to simulate a dist-upgrade
[09:55] <mvo_> - investigate what to do with the dist-upgrader and early upgrading of apt
[09:55] <Kamion> pitti: they're ok but a bit too lengthy
[09:55] <fschoep> Mithrandir: GDM is one of sabdfl (and the whole martketing dept's) worst nightmares so it's bound to change ;)
[09:55] <Keybuk> THE GLOW WAS IMPORTANT! </jdub>  ?
[09:55] <mdz> mvo_: do you know if the hostid in popularity-contest is used for anything important?  if so, we might have some work to do
[09:56] <Kamion> yeah, pre-knot-3 ubiquity wasn't reconfiguring it
[09:56] <mvo_> mdz: I don't know, sorry. but I can check it out
[09:56] <mdz> mvo_: I like the idea of user testing of the upgrader
[09:56] <Kamion> now, this does mean that at least there was a different one for every livefs build ;-)
[09:56] <mvo_> mdz: do you have privacy concerns about the hostid?
[09:56] <mdz> mvo_: no, it's just as Kamion says
[09:57] <mdz> it's not as unique as it should be
[09:57] <mdz> so we should check if that's affecting the stats
[09:57] <Kamion> unfortunately there isn't just one hostid that we can check for and forcibly reconfigure
[09:57] <Kamion> there are lots
[09:57] <Kamion> however, perhaps we should collate a list of the most common ones and forcibly reconfigure them in an upgrade
[09:57] <Kamion> popularity-contest already does this for certain hostids
[09:57] <mdz> Kamion: we could upload popcon nowish and have all upgrades from earlier versions reconfigure
[09:57] <mdz> it does? how interesting
[09:57] <Burgundavia> fschoep, Keybuk: the darkness of the current gdm is my primary concern
[09:58] <mdz> anyway, time is short
[09:58] <mdz> mvo_: thanks
[09:58] <mdz> Keybuk: next
[09:58] <fschoep> Burgundavia: I got the memo ;)
[09:58] <Keybuk> Done:
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Bug fix upload of upstart
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Debugged hang on sparc and ppc64
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * BootMessageLogging: implemented
[09:58] <Keybuk> To do:
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Seed upstart-logd, update ubuntu-minimal
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Fix "quiet" bug
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Add output to checkfs and checkroot for when the disks get checked, and cryptdisk for password
[09:58] <Keybuk>  * Teardown Part Deux
[09:58] <mdz> Keybuk: my boot messages aren't logged
[09:58] <mdz> potpal:[~]  cat /var/log/boot
[09:58] <mdz> (Nothing has been logged yet.)
[09:59] <infinity> mdz: Known bug, I annoyed him about it earlier.
[09:59] <Keybuk> mdz: right, I didn't get a chance to seed the required package before the ice queen descended on the distro
[09:59] <infinity> mdz: The logger is missing from the seeds.
[09:59] <pitti> ('me too')
[09:59] <mdz> ok
[09:59] <mdz> Keybuk: upstart bug list seems pretty tame
[09:59] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, I rock
[09:59] <mdz> Keybuk: almost...too quiet
[09:59] <Keybuk> the worst bug we had was the ppc64/sparc one
[10:00] <infinity> I guess I should statr filing bugs.
[10:00] <mdz> Keybuk: good press too
[10:00] <zul> Keybuk: is the "quiet" bug something that the quiet grub patch caused?
[10:00] <Keybuk> fwict, it largely just works for everyone
[10:00] <Keybuk> zul: no, just my bad spelling
[10:00] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[10:00] <zul> Keybuk: ah ok
[10:00] <Keybuk> it works if you boot with "quite" :p
[10:00] <mdz> fabbione: next
[10:00] <fabbione> Done
[10:00] <fabbione>  * Catchup after all this time away has been priority.
[10:00] <fabbione>  * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: completed. we are in bug fixing mode. Only one/two GFS2 bugs left to fix and one bug in the resource manager that must be fixed before release. Considerting to add a set of NFS kernel/userland patches to handle properly NSF exports failovers.
[10:00] <fabbione>  * pkgsum.u.c is up and running. the client is in the archive but still need testing.
[10:00] <fabbione>  * edgy-sparc: not much done other than bug fixing. edgy did introduce a set of weird bugs that are slowly being worked out. Problem is that they are all in chain. silo that doesn't boot .17 with bigger initrd, lvm segfaulting etc... work in userland has been generally more difficult than usual.
[10:00] <fabbione> To do
[10:00] <fabbione>  * Fix root on raid (dapper -> edgy regression).
[10:00] <fabbione>  * Start test install of edgy on sparc.
[10:00] <fabbione>  * Bug fixing in general.
[10:01] <mdz> fabbione: please add pkgsum to the list for UWN so that it's featured in an upcoming issue
[10:01] <fabbione> mdz: once it's tested i will do it
[10:01] <mdz> fabbione: the point is to get testing for it ;-)
[10:01] <fabbione> mdz: also the udeb is still in universe and to be useful it needs to be on CD
[10:02] <fabbione> mdz: it's not easy to test without CD first and i was waiting knot-3 to get it there in a daily
[10:02] <mdz> fabbione: could you send me email with details of the outstanding sparc issues? no time to discuss right now
[10:02] <fabbione> mdz: sure.
[10:02] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: next
[10:03] <Kamion> Done:
[10:03] <Kamion>   sane-installer-keyboard: Mopped up a couple of loose ends, but surprisingly I'm not seeing too many issues here. The biggest ones I've noticed are that UK keyboards aren't detected properly, which I've punted to smurfix for the time being, and some problems with preseeding. We might get some more bugs coming in here after Knot 3.
[10:03] <Kamion>   usplash: Fixed up bogl backend so that usplash works on powerpc, at least for me and (more urgently) kwwii. I've had to stop working on this for the time being though - see Blocked.
[10:03] <Kamion>   misc: SoC review (project successful, need to tidy up a few loose ends but I expect to merge it for Edgy+1). Some cdebconf/debconf enhancements which will help us clean up a lot of total madness down the line. A bunch of ubiquity bug-fixing work.
[10:03] <Kamion> Blocked:
[10:03] <Kamion>   usplash: Bug 60183 is effectively preventing me from doing much more on usplash for the time being.
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60183 in linux-source-2.6.17 "oops while running usplash" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60183
[10:03] <Kamion> To do:
[10:03] <Kamion>   ubiquity: Get the bug list under something resembling control, and knock off more of the frequently-reported issues: I have concrete plans for several of them.
[10:03] <Kamion>   usplash: Work on tasksel enhancements needed to make resolution detection on fresh (d-i) install work properly. I've cleared the general idea here with joeyh.
[10:03] <mdz> 60183 -> eek
[10:04] <Kamion> I have no idea what's calling vfs_unlink; usplash doesn't call unlink itself
[10:04] <Kamion> but it's entirely consistent, the trace is basically the same every time and I can reproduce more or less at will
[10:04] <mdz> anyone else able to confirm it?
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: has the point release reduced the ubiquity bug torrent?
[10:05] <Kamion> it is possible that my local usplash modifications make it more likely to crash; it is one of those bugs with the annoying property that, the more you try to debug something else, the harder your system wedges
[10:05] <fabbione> Kamion: i will test usplash as soon as i get my PB back
[10:06] <Kamion> mdz: I've more or less stopped keeping up with my incoming bug folder, so I don't have an accurate idea, but my impression from dealing with the web UI is that the flow of duplicates is reducing and I'm starting to be able to find interesting problems again
[10:06] <mdz> here's hoping
[10:06] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[10:06] <mdz> sfllaw: next
[10:06] <sfllaw> Done:
[10:06] <sfllaw>  * Absurd amounts of e-mail
[10:06] <sfllaw>  * Bug triage
[10:06] <sfllaw>  * Hug day
[10:06] <sfllaw>  * E-mailed about interns
[10:06] <sfllaw> To do:
[10:06] <sfllaw>  * Bug triage
[10:06] <mdz> sfllaw: was the bug day forwarding theme successful?
[10:06] <sfllaw> mdz: Marginally so.
[10:06] <mdz> sfllaw: how is the bug count?
[10:07] <sfllaw> Sorry for the delay.  Ubuntu machine just died.
[10:07] <mdz> I'd like to hear about the forwarding experiment in more detail sometime after the meeting, email is fine
[10:08] <mdz> if that approach wasn't entirely successful, maybe we need to try others
[10:08] <sfllaw> BugDays seem more like people do what they're comfortable with days.
[10:08] <sfllaw> Maybe we want something targetted at a particular interest
[10:08] <sfllaw> And then ask if people would like to forward stuff.
[10:08] <mdz> sfllaw: do we still have a request pending for graphs of bug count data from LP?
[10:09] <sfllaw> We have graphs.  They're just not useful.
[10:09] <sfllaw> They're on cricket.
[10:09] <sfllaw> Raw numbers are better.
[10:09] <mdz> right, the ones I saw were awfully uninteresting
[10:09] <mdz> I thought we asked for adjustments
[10:09] <sfllaw> We went down from 72 unforwarded bugs to 66.
[10:09] <seb128> a bug triager mailed the bugsquad list, he has worked on some plots for number of bugs, etc but he needs a place where he could place it ... do we have something like that?
[10:09] <sfllaw> However, we did have lots of bugs closed, as is normal for a BugDay.
[10:10] <mdz> seb128: supermirror? :-)
[10:10] <sfllaw> seb128: He's doing that by sampling Malone, isn't he?
[10:10] <sfllaw> Wouldn't getting the raw data out of the database be better?
[10:10] <iwj> sfllaw: ITYM scraping.
[10:10] <seb128> sfllaw: I've not looked at what he's doing, he just wrote saying he needs "to use wget,
[10:10] <seb128> python and gnuplot, in addition to a server to serve the pages. Its
[10:10] <seb128> just a few pages, and the plots are not huge (like < 4K each)."
[10:10] <mdz> sfllaw: let's continue with the weekly stats presented here then
[10:11] <sfllaw> OK.  Who controls the Malone DB?
[10:11] <seb128> sfllaw: could you give him a reply if you think it should be done differently so he doesn't waste time neither feel ignored?
[10:11] <mdz> seb128: he can generate the graphs locally and upload to the supermirror
[10:11] <sfllaw> Can we get them to run a cronjob there that spits out the right numbers?
[10:11] <fabbione> sfllaw: #launchpad
[10:11] <sfllaw> OK.
[10:11] <fabbione> sfllaw: probably stub
[10:11] <sfllaw> Will ask there.
[10:11] <mdz> sfllaw: email the LP list asking for a DBA, I believe there's more than one
[10:11] <seb128> mdz: the point is that he has no "locally" connected to internet all the time
[10:11] <mdz> or at least a backup, so best to ask the list
[10:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: how can one store web-accessible files on the supermirror?  Checking them into bzr, but can you get them out as a web page of some sorts?
[10:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: you can just sftp things to the supermirror I think
[10:13] <mdz> sfllaw: thanks
[10:13] <mdz> kwwii: next
[10:13] <kwwii> done:
[10:13] <kwwii> changed from yellow-purple to blue-purple for knot3
[10:13] <kwwii> worked on kubuntu banner, program guide, etc. for akademy
[10:13] <kwwii> made first usplash version and got it running on my machine (thanks to Seveas for help making the theme and Kamion for getting it running on my machine so I can test it)
[10:13] <kwwii> worked on several ideas for usplash animations
[10:13] <kwwii> todo:
[10:13] <kwwii> create wiki page with all updated/final artwork
[10:13] <kwwii> finish usplash
[10:13] <kwwii> finish tweaking any yellow-purple odds and ends
[10:13] <kwwii> polish, polish, polish
[10:13] <mdz> kwwii: how has the feedback been on your side?
[10:13] <kwwii> mdz: very good actually
[10:13] <Keybuk> kwwii: you'll go blind if you keep polishing it
[10:13] <kwwii> the yellow-purple kinda freaked out a few people
[10:14] <kwwii> wax on, wax off
[10:14] <mdz> kwwii: probably a good idea to solicit it explicitly in the knot-3 announcement as we discussed with fschoep
[10:14] <kwwii> mdz: there is a page ready with stuff for kubuntu
[10:14] <fschoep> mdz: kwwii / Riddell did a good job for that on Knot 2 with screenshots and all
[10:14] <Kamion> kwwii: paint the fence
[10:14] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot3/Kubuntu
[10:14] <mdz> cool, thanks
[10:14] <mdz> Riddell: next
[10:15] <Riddell> done:
[10:15] <Riddell>     koffice 1.6 beta
[10:15] <Riddell>     KDE ubiquity up to date with GTK frontend
[10:15] <Riddell>     knot 3 testing
[10:15] <Riddell> blocked: ruby on ppc
[10:15] <Riddell> todo:
[10:15] <Riddell>     knot 3 release today
[10:15] <Riddell>     further KDE ubiquity changes now needed
[10:15] <Riddell>    bugfixes bugfixes
[10:15] <mdz> Riddell: same ruby problem as last week?
[10:15] <mdz> no change?
[10:15] <Riddell> yes
[10:16] <Riddell> it compiles for me, just not in the buildds
[10:16] <mdz> grr
[10:16] <infinity> 64-bit issue, like we once had tith mono?
[10:16] <infinity> s/tith/with/
[10:16] <infinity> And we appear to have with fpc (just stumbled on it today)
[10:16] <pitti> Riddell: does it work/break on davis?
[10:16] <Riddell> pitti: I've not tried
[10:16] <mdz> Riddell: please do
[10:16] <Riddell> oko
[10:17] <mdz> thanks
[10:17] <mdz> rodarvus: here?
[10:17] <rodarvus> yes
[10:17] <rodarvus> Done: (very short week, I'm sorry)
[10:17] <rodarvus> - bug triage (mostly for video drivers)
[10:17] <rodarvus> - X.Org driver bugfixing catchup for Knot 3, X.Org server fixes (mostly ready, waiting for main to be unfrozen)
[10:17] <rodarvus> - Some (little) OLPC work
[10:17] <rodarvus> To do:
[10:17] <rodarvus> - more bug triage & bug fixing
[10:17] <rodarvus> - write down OLPC plans to Wiki
[10:18] <mdz> rodarvus: looking forward to testing that ATI bugfix
[10:18] <mdz> rodarvus: let's catch up for a few minutes after the meeting
[10:18] <rodarvus> mdz, sure, it will be uploaded in a few minutes
[10:18] <rodarvus> *nods*
[10:18] <mdz> we're already over time
[10:18] <mdz> anything else before we adjourn?
[10:18] <mdz> done
[10:18] <mdz> thanks, all
[10:18] <zul> mdz: can i bug you later?
[10:18] <pitti> thanks everyone
[10:18] <sfllaw> Night.
[10:19] <mdz> zul: I'll be up for a bit
[10:19] <mvo> thanks
[10:19] <zul> mdz: i was thinking later today
[10:19] <mdz> zul: after I've slept then
[10:19] <zul> yep same here
[10:20] <zul> mdz: ttyl then
[03:01] <digitalmouse> greetings programs!  don't mind me- just listening in...
[07:12] <simira> dholbach: I'll definitely follow up on your movie recommendations. It's awhile since I saw Nausicaa, but I really liked it.
[07:12] <dholbach> simira: Oh, it's great - I really love it
[07:14] <simira> dholbach: I am very fond of some kinds of anime movies, like this one, Chihiro, and a few others
[07:14] <dholbach> simira: you can watch all the Ghibli movies - they're all good :)
[07:14] <simira> dholbach: I'll definitely have a look
[07:15] <simira> (*sigh* I really have too much cash to be looking at dvd's now...)
[07:17] <simira> I saw "The living castle" as well
[07:17] <dholbach> I saw it in an open air cinema quite recently - it's lovely
[07:18] <dholbach> Miyazaki's son made a movie too, it's been released in Japan, but I couldn't find it anywhere - so I guess we'll need to wait for a release
[07:19] <GNAM> lupin and conan rulez, movies not.
[07:20] <simira> are there any english ghibli-site with a list of films or somehing...? ghibli.jp wanted me to get flash...
[07:20] <simira> found it :)
[07:21] <dholbach> GNAM: conan?
[07:21] <dholbach> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki
[07:21] <simira> dholbach: I have Totoro lying about, lend from a friend. Is it worth seeing?
[07:21] <GNAM> Perhaps his most famous TV work was directing Future Boy Conan
[07:21] <dholbach> simira: It's very nice, although you have to get used to a story that evolves quite slow :-)
[07:22] <dholbach> GNAM: oh I didn't know that one
[07:22] <GNAM> that's impossible
[07:22] <dholbach> hehe :)
[07:28] <dholbach> GNAM: I'll watch out for it
[08:11] <highvoltage> 33
[11:11] <szyszeja> hi
[11:12] <szyszeja> where can i use ubuntu`repository?
[11:12] <szyszeja> on xubuntu
[11:16] <digitalmouse> not sure what you are asking szys
[11:20] <szyszeja> digitalmouse: hi
[11:20] <szyszeja> im new on xubuntu
[11:21] <szyszeja> n i speak english like a dog....
[11:21] <szyszeja> i want to configure my sources.list
[11:22] <szyszeja> can i use ubuntus`srepository
[11:22] <szyszeja> i wanna play mp3 .. avi..
[11:25] <szyszeja> digitalmouse:
[11:34] <alef-null> szyszeja: this isn't a support channel. maybe you should try it on #xubuntu or #xubuntu-es or #ubuntu


[08:48] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:49] <elfy> morning lordievader :)
[08:50] <lordievader> Hey elfy, how are you?
[08:51] <elfy> good thanks - just pottering about for a bit - you?
[08:52] <lordievader> Waking up, decided to see if I can get vino into xrdp.
[11:56] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all


[09:13] <czajkowski> ebel: brat!
[09:13] <ebel> :P
[09:13] <ebel> I was gonna leave just then anyway. :()
[09:14] <ebel> :)
[09:14] <czajkowski> heheh
[09:14] <ebel> Couldn't resist making an it crowd / bluffball jokes
[09:17] <slashtom> i bet she has a pony on munster
[09:19] <ebel> they were actually talking about rugby. tis odd. on #gaygeeks the conversation this morning has mostly been bout unicode.....
[09:20] <czajkowski> LOL
[10:24] <czajkowski> airurando: tdr112 ubuntu membership..........
[10:25] <airurando> indeed
[10:25] <airurando> I'll see how tdr112 gets on.
[10:26] <czajkowski> I'm warning ye both
[10:26] <czajkowski> get them wiki pages up and sent to the ML for some testimonials
[10:26] <tdr112> ya i forgot about that i must do it
[10:26] <czajkowski> indeed
[10:26] <czajkowski> you must


[20:18] <tedge> Hi, I'm the upstream developer of PikoPixel, a free open-source application for drawing & editing pixel-art:
[20:19] <tedge> http://twilightedge.com/mac/pikopixel
[20:19] <tedge> PikoPixel is available in the Debian & Ubuntu repositories (thanks to tarzeau_):
[20:19] <tedge> https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/amd64/pikopixel.app
[20:19] <tedge> Here's a couple examples of artists using PikoPixel on Linux:
[20:19] <tedge> https://www.instagram.com/p/BlgFRBTAf4q/
[20:20] <tedge> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KFI8xm1fd8
[20:20] <tedge> PikoPixel would be a useful tool to include with Ubuntu Studio. How can it be submitted for consideration?
[20:36] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: ^


[05:12] <Mikaela> *!*@*/freenode/staff/* (you forgot the asterisk after @)
[07:07] <dax> *!*@freenode/staff/*
[07:07] <LowLifePerv> *!*@freenode/staff-emeritus/*
[07:08] <dax> psh, shouldn't trust staff-emeritus
[07:08] <dax> emerituses? emeriti? idk
[07:08] <dax> yeah, emeriti
[07:10] <LowLifePerv> haha
[07:10] <LowLifePerv> octopi
[18:18] <nhandler> I know I'm a bit late, but as dax said, the preferred entry is *!*@freenode/staff/* .
[18:19] <Fuchs> ...
[20:52] <totopalma> Hi, could you please re-enable the clock with this nick? my profile on launchpad is https://launchpad.net/~palma-salvatore
[20:54] <nhandler> totopalma: Did you old account expire or something?
[20:58] <totopalma> nhandler, yes, i have register this nick now
[21:01] <Unit193> totopalma: Sending you a message via LP, if you don't mind?
[21:02] <totopalma> ok :)
[21:04] <Unit193> nhandler: Cloaky please?
[21:04] <Unit193> ubuntu/member/totopalma looks about great.
[21:04] <totopalma> thanks :)
[21:05] <Unit193> nhandler: Thanks!
[21:05] <nhandler> Unit193, totopalma: Done :)


[07:01] <diplo> Morning all
[07:18] <MooDoo> #ubuntuspotting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwklfIbSAgA
[08:35] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:36] <foobarry> any idea how to find out what is using a module? lsmod says 1 thing is using it, mmfs26               1833577  1
[08:36] <foobarry> cannot remove the module cleanly as something is using it
[08:40] <popey> foobarry: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/448999/is-there-a-way-to-figure-out-what-is-using-a-linux-kernel-module ?
[08:41] <foobarry> heh i was on that page
[08:41] <foobarry> --force is scary with gpfs
[08:41] <foobarry> trying to fathom the language in the second answer
[08:43] <TwistedLucidity> popey: So I checked that minidlna thing and it was installed for...no reason whatsoever. Laptop has been upgraded from 14.04...so could have been just about anything I guess.
[08:44] <TwistedLucidity> Actually looks like a useful enough wee thing, just needs a bit more control (which can probably be configured I assume)
[08:45] <popey> hah
[08:45] <foobarry> ah, my colleague noticed autofs was loading stuff. restarted autofs and was able to shutdown gpfs
[08:50] <foobarry> anyone use pocket or instapaper?
[08:51] <foobarry> i have evernote for permanent stuff. wondering if i'd benefit from pocket too for tablet/kobo reading on the train
[08:53] <popey> i use pocket just for collecting news for the podcast
[08:53] <popey> i never use evernote plugins, just use that for text
[08:53] <popey> tried the evernote browser plugin and found it too intrusive
[08:54] <foobarry> i turned off the searchy stuff
[08:58] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I keep meaning to install Wallabag (a F/OSS alternative to Pocket)
[09:04] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Go Skateboarding Day! 😃
[09:08] <TwistedLucidity> Remember to wear your pads & helmet
[09:12] <JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, I make a point of doing that daily anyway, it can be a dangerous business in software development. 😝
[09:13] <TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: The best form of defence is attack, I have a big stick
[09:13] <TwistedLucidity> 1.75m of solid oak as it happens.
[09:15] <JamesTait> I have 14.6cm of cherry wood?
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> Got some impact grade hickory here as well.
[09:44] <foobarry> i have my old brand-X skateboard inthe loft
[12:22] <foobarry> any comments on https://solus-project.com/2016/06/20/solus-1-2-shannon-released/ ctrl-f optimizations
[13:14] <diplo> as ub whether I'll use it foobarry ?
[13:14] <diplo> in*
[13:15] <diplo> I like the look of solus, I use Budgie as my WM, not sure I'd use it as my desktop OS, but may give it a go in the future, I use my desktop as my dev machine so I need something I know for now :)
[13:15] <foobarry> over how they get the speed improvements
[13:16] <foobarry> and if they legitimately amke desktop faster at expense of 1% use case havnig worse experience
[13:22] <ali1234> they are using processor specific optimizations. so the 1% don't have a worse experience. it doesn't work for them at all
[13:22] <foobarry> unclear what is affected
[13:22] <foobarry> they don't say.
[13:22] <foobarry> elementary are 64-bit onl;y, so i wonder if they are doing it too
[13:23] <ali1234> no
[13:23] <ali1234> it has nothing to do with being 64 bit only
[13:23] <foobarry> its like the FAST compiler option etc?
[13:24] <ali1234> i dunno. but it can't be anything to do with 64 bit
[13:24] <ali1234> because all 64 bit distros are 64 bit only
[13:24] <ali1234> because 64 bit code can't run on a 32 bit processor, ever
[13:24] <foobarry> we use intel compiler on the cluster and AMD nodes aren't working because it needs similar cpu to what it was compiled on, unless you use more broad options
[13:25] <foobarry> i know that, but there is a mentality that says "lets focus on newer hardware", that fits with ditching 32 bit too
[13:25] <ali1234> eh, no
[13:25] <ali1234> intel compiler targets intel extensions regardless of what system you run it on
[13:26] <ali1234> yes, but dropping 32 bit support does not make your 64 bit binaries run any faster
[13:26] <ali1234> it's like saying your distro runs faster because you don't compile it for ARM
[13:27] <foobarry> intel had to drop the intel specific stuff due to a court case i thought
[13:28] <ali1234>  find that almost as unlikely as the idea that a compiler generates different code based on the system you run it on, rather than say, command line switches
[13:28] <diplo> Well ikey works for Intel and works on the intel os project which I cna't remember the nsame of
[13:28] <diplo> name*
[13:29] <diplo> https://clearlinux.org/
[13:29] <diplo> thnk that's it
[13:29] <foobarry> yep
[13:30] <ali1234> i remember there was a scandal about the intel compiler generating sub-optimal code paths for AMD chips
[13:30] <ali1234> but that's a bit different
[13:30] <foobarry> heh
[13:30] <foobarry> evil intel
[13:31] <ali1234> what this will be is targeting specific CPU extensions that aren't available on all 64 bit processors
[13:32] <ali1234> and possibly using the intel compiler to do that
[13:32] <ali1234> or maybe just writing the assembly code
[13:32] <diplo> Probably yeah, debated about trying it on my optiplex but pretty sure its too old :)
[13:32] <ali1234> or even just picking the right compile flags
[13:32] <ali1234> this is the same thing that they did with meego
[13:33] <ali1234> it required a cpu extension that wasn't available on any AMD chip at the time
[13:47]  * popey notes the guy who runs solus works for intel
[13:47] <popey> also, I'm not sure those graphs are all of the graphs in the set
[13:48] <popey> http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1606039-HA-1606036KH29 yes, some other graphs have them level
[13:48] <popey> or even solus being slower
[13:48] <popey> lies, damn lies and benchmarks :)
[13:49] <daftykins> eww Mint
[13:51] <ali1234> does anyone really even use XZ compression?
[13:51] <foobarry> the slower ones are not much slower...more data required.
[13:52] <foobarry> xz, yes they do
[13:53] <popey> It makes for a good press release, which is fine of course.
[13:53] <foobarry> xz is supposed to be better than bz2
[13:53] <ali1234> yeah but it's like 10x slower
[13:53] <foobarry> no
[13:53] <ali1234> and 5% better compression
[13:54] <foobarry> imagine you have lots of genome data
[13:54] <foobarry> they would take many terbaytes
[13:54] <ali1234> i have a very large dataset... it's over 2TB decompressed
[13:54] <foobarry> decompression time for xz is alltgedly faster
[13:54] <ali1234> it took a couple of days to bzip it all
[13:54] <ali1234> xz would have taken months
[13:55] <foobarry> HPC
[13:55] <foobarry> which is where you would find the genome data
[13:55] <foobarry> also if you store public datasets for consumption
[13:55] <ali1234> HPC where you have gigabit links between each node?
[13:55] <foobarry> then a one time long compress for faster decompress and lower size is gotta be a benefit
[13:56] <foobarry> or infiniband
[13:56] <ali1234> xz is so slow that it takes longer to compress data than it does to upload it on my broadband which has like 50kB upload speed
[13:57] <foobarry> actually bzip compresses genome sequences better than xz, but there are other cases where it is better
[13:57] <ali1234> also decompressing isn't faster either... its much slower than bzip
[13:57] <foobarry> [citation needed]
[13:57] <ali1234> i tested it myself
[13:58] <foobarry> depends on the dataset
[14:39] <foobarry> tried pocket on https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing but it doesn't play nice
[14:39] <foobarry> might have to stick to everscrote
[14:49] <awilkins> ali1234, genetic data compression?
[14:50] <awilkins> Main problem is the dictionary size of normal compression programs AFAICT
[14:50] <awilkins> ali1234, I've got some links somewhere
[14:50] <awilkins> http://sun.aei.polsl.pl/REFRESH/index.php?page=projects&project=gdc&subpage=about
[14:51] <awilkins> It also does differential compression (because genomes are so similar)
[14:51] <awilkins> I had this notion that you could just compress a reference genome and only punt around the compressed differentials
[14:51] <foobarry> maybe ali1234 was trying xz level 9
[14:52] <awilkins> Never got around to implementing that but it should be able to copy a full human genome across a T1 line in less than 15s after compression
[14:58] <daftykins> what's 1.544Mb in this day and age :)
[16:38] <awilkins> More than a floppy
[16:40]  * zmoylan-pi waits for the box of 2.88mb floppies to double in value...
[17:14] <damien> does anyone know how to delete an empty folder in ubuntu?
[17:14] <lopta> damien: Have you tried from the command line?
[17:15] <damien> no what should i do
[17:16] <lopta> Does it not go away if you drag it to the rubbish bin?
[17:16] <damien> no it does not
[17:17] <lopta> Is it a folder that you created?
[17:17] <damien> it was a game actually i went to uninstall it as it did not work, now there is an empty folder left
[17:19] <popey> click on it and press delete?
[17:19] <lopta> damien: Where is the folder?
[17:20] <damien> it is in other
[17:20]  * lopta doesn't know where "other" is.
[17:20] <damien> other is in the launcher menu
[17:21]  * lopta shrugs
[17:21] <lopta> Sounds like an Ubuntu-specific (or at least Linux-specific) thing.
[17:21] <lopta> Sorry I'm not able to help.
[17:21] <damien> I thought as much
[17:21] <popey> i dont actually understand where you're talking about
[17:22] <lopta> popey: I was about to suggest that you might know ;-)
[17:23] <damien> popey: do ypou have any idea how to remove an empty folder in ubuntu?
[17:26] <brobostigon> rm -r
[17:27] <damien> is that all
[17:27] <brobostigon> and the folder name,
[17:28] <damien> it is saying that it doesnt exist
[17:28] <brobostigon> does ls show it?
[17:28] <diddledan_> brobostigon: you should specify with a variable name and a suffixed / after the variable so that unsuspecting copy pastas unwittingly, but amusingly, destroy their system
[17:29] <brobostigon> diddledan_: true, yes, sorry.
[17:29] <damien> no
[17:29] <diddledan_> something like "-rf $moo/"
[17:29] <diddledan_> :-p
[17:30] <czajkowski> popey: you about ?
[17:30] <damien> diddle dan that did not work either
[17:32] <m0nkey_> Yeah diddledan_ you suck :-P
[17:33] <damien> lol
[17:35] <daftykins> buuuurn!
[17:35] <damien> he said aww chucks
[17:48] <damien> aww chucks im speechless
[17:50] <damien> im sure things should be a doddle with diddledan
[17:52] <damien> :-)
[17:57] <popey> czajkowski: hello
[18:17] <diddledan_> m0nkey_: I try
[18:23] <popey> diddledan_: please, do NOT do that.
[18:24] <diddledan_> popey: that's why I also neutered my utterance to be non-copy-pastable
[18:25] <popey> plenty of people don't copy paste but type what they see, especially if they're on a second computer fixing the first
[18:25] <popey> so please, don't
[18:26] <daftykins> hmm that minsky character is bouncing in this channel too
[18:26] <zmoylan-pi>
[18:26] <daftykins> ban o'clock
[18:28] <diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I feel your presence but I can't hear you
[18:28]  * diddledan_ bops daftykins
[18:28]  * daftykins is bopped
[18:28]  * zmoylan-pi mimes person stuck in a box...
[18:29]  * daftykins seals the box airtight and watches how zmoylan-pi mimes it
[18:29] <daftykins> 8D
[18:29] <diddledan_> yey @ silly oversights on government sites: http://cl.ly/2k0X2Y2w2O0o/o
[18:29] <diddledan_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:30] <daftykins> :>
[18:30] <daftykins> well you don't think anyone is gonna fix that right?
[18:30]  * zmoylan-pi mimes opening backpack and extracting battery powered angle grinder to make air holes
[18:33]  * diddledan_ stabs the box again (that zmoylan-pi is miming being inside)
[18:33] <diddledan_> this is a magic trick, right? the one where I stab the box with 15 swords and you stay alive?
[18:34]  * zmoylan-pi nips out to the chemist using the escape tunnel from the box
[18:34] <daftykins> oh dear the mime has gone quiet
[18:34] <daftykins> :D
[18:34] <diddledan_> I'd be more worried if the mime was noisy
[18:34] <diddledan_> mimes are supposed to be quiet aren't they?
[18:35] <zmoylan-pi> everybody laughs when you mention you prepare an escape tunnel... they're the people you add to the list of 'not allowed in my escaoe tunnel'... :-P
[18:35] <daftykins> diddledan_: http://goo.gl/teY5
[18:36] <diddledan_> oh
[18:36] <diddledan_> aren't jokes always funnier when someone explains it in minute detail?
[18:36] <zmoylan-pi> they're funny when you explain them with a 2 hour powerpoint presentation
[18:36] <zmoylan-pi> AND a laser pointer
[18:37] <diddledan_> powerpoint. please.  :-P
[18:43] <diddledan_> perhaps the IrCOPs need informing over in #freenode?
[18:44] <zmoylan-pi> and my unfeasibly large nerf collection...
[18:44] <diddledan_> I've got my bopping thing
[18:44]  * diddledan_ bops daftykins
[18:44] <daftykins> skippity beep-bop and Christopher Reeves ~
[18:45] <daftykins> that was a line in some Eminem i believe
[18:45] <czajkowski> popey: can you help me figure out libre office before I go grey please :)
[18:45] <czajkowski> popey: open up libre office
[18:46] <czajkowski> and do you see a left hand pane where you can add slides underneath each other
[18:46] <czajkowski> and then to the right you see the slide
[18:46] <czajkowski> what is the name of the left hand panel, mine is gone and trying to readd it
[18:49] <daftykins> must be something like thumbnails/outline ?
[18:51] <zmoylan-pi> it's just called slides...
[18:52] <zmoylan-pi> or side pane?
[18:52] <zmoylan-pi> slide pane rather
[18:52] <zmoylan-pi> View, Slide Pane
[18:55] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/1j1WYasa8UC?pid=6298721254376402514&oid=102921374554385564572
[18:55] <czajkowski> so I got view slide pane in there
[18:56] <czajkowski> but it's just showing blanks and the slides to my right are not blank
[18:56] <czajkowski> :(
[18:56] <czajkowski>  libre office why do you hate me so
[18:59] <daftykins> YOLD!
[18:59] <daftykins> that's pretty weird
[18:59] <czajkowski> I'm not old :(
[19:01] <daftykins> haha that's not what that means
[19:03] <czajkowski> what does it mean so ?
[19:04] <daftykins> year of the Linux desktop! my little tease line :)
[19:04] <czajkowski> ah gotcha
[19:04] <czajkowski> which is in fact OLD ! :)
[19:04] <czajkowski> slides should do it
[19:04] <daftykins> the phrase? :)
[19:04] <czajkowski> yet cannot for the life of me make it display
[19:04] <daftykins> maybe you have to close and re-open for some unknown reason o0
[19:04] <czajkowski> aye
[19:07] <czajkowski> daftykins: oh for the love of jack daniels!
[19:07] <czajkowski> https://goo.gl/photos/AsoZeidjsjxhe1uU7
[19:07] <czajkowski> so closing and reopening kinda fixed it
[19:07] <czajkowski> now if I could just the side pane to dock!
[19:08] <daftykins> :D
[19:08] <daftykins> i just Windows'd your problem
[19:08] <zmoylan-pi> now you just need to move it around till it snaps in... i think...
[19:09] <czajkowski> narp
[19:09] <czajkowski> grumble
[19:09] <foobarry> my system utterly locks up during i/o copy from usb->local disk
[19:09] <foobarry> need to find the cpu scheduler to stop that
[19:43] <bittin> you should not work when you are tired and deppresive almost made something wrong but brain woke up and helped me in last second :P
[20:25] <foobarry> didn't help me, just did a bad
[20:25] <daftykins> :<
[20:34] <zmoylan-pi> may all your recoverys be little ones...
[20:34] <foobarry> also, i've been doing a dd for 25mins
[20:35] <foobarry> surely there's a problem
[20:35] <foobarry> only 4gb
[20:35] <zmoylan-pi> sounds... wrong...
[20:35] <foobarry> ah, just as i do a strace, it finished
[20:35] <daftykins> forget a blocksize parameter to speed it up?
[20:35] <daftykins> heh
[20:36] <foobarry> maybe that woke up
[20:39] <foobarry> my dog keeps eating feathers
[20:41] <zmoylan-pi> can smell the bird from the feathers so has a nibble
[20:41] <foobarry> had to extract it from the back of his mouth
[20:42] <foobarry> like sticking a head in a croc mouth
[20:42] <zmoylan-pi> dogs jaws aren't as strong as crocs
[20:44] <xnox> finished watching the #BBCDebate....
[20:45] <xnox> oh i hope we will remain
[20:45] <xnox> =(
[20:45] <lopta> hello xnox
[21:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[21:30] <daftykins> lo