[04:05] <FourthDr> evening
[04:05] <FourthDr> anyone home?
[04:26] <imasios> hey, need some pointers for cross-compiling a bigger piece of software for aarch64 on ubuntu. am i in the right place? :)


[00:06] <SpamapS> hazmat: looking now
[00:08] <SpamapS> hazmat: looks like it is .. note that it won't be installed on anyone's system because the version is < than the one in 11.10
[00:08] <SpamapS> hazmat: 11.10 has 0.8.0-0ubuntu1 , the ppa has 0.8.0-0juju45~oneiric1 .. j < u
[00:09] <hazmat> bummer
[00:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: IMO its a good thing. :) This PPA shouldn't have anything more than you *need* to run juju.
[00:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: we probably need a dev PPA for stuff like that.
[00:12] <hazmat> SpamapS, its not a breaker yet, but it will be in future ppa revs of the juju
[00:15] <SpamapS> hazmat: at that point we will put the backport in the PPA.
[00:15] <hazmat> jimbaker, i'm wondering if it would be faster to just reset the groups on shutdown of ec2
[00:15] <hazmat> rather than playing the waiting game
[00:16] <jimbaker> hazmat, that does sound reasonable and equivalent
[00:16] <jimbaker> i think it was just an attempt to not create too much garbage
[00:17] <jimbaker> in terms of lots of security groups hanging around
[00:17] <jimbaker> hazmat, i'm pretty certain this is what was done in an earlier version, i don't know if that ever went through review
[00:18] <jimbaker> although the reset then was done at SG acquisition, so a bit different i guess
[00:18] <hazmat> hmm.. yeah
[00:18] <hazmat> jimbaker, group removal at shutdown almost never works for me
[00:18] <hazmat> it always gives up
[00:19] <hazmat> so i'm wondering if its worth the bother
[00:19] <jimbaker> hazmat, hmmm... it does tend to work for me, but i tend to just run the wordpress stack at most
[00:19] <hazmat> effectively.. i wait 30s.. and then.. 2011-12-08 19:14:20,668 ERROR Instance shutdown taking too long, could not delete groups juju-public-0
[00:19] <hazmat> and it moves on
[00:20] <jimbaker> yeah, and without ill effect, since it can just use those SGs anyway
[00:20] <hazmat> well it will try to delete them latter as  i recall
[00:20] <hazmat> and fail if can't delete them
[00:21] <hazmat> ie. if you try to bootstrap immediately
[00:21] <hazmat> resetting the security group means no waiting or errors
[00:21] <jimbaker> hazmat, that does sound like a valid diff approach then
[00:21] <hazmat> on bootstrap we can go ahead and clear out any detected garbage
[00:22] <hazmat> ugh..
[00:22] <hazmat> that sounds rather odd though.. but the reality is the sgs are still present, so its better than nothing
[00:26] <jimbaker> hazmat, it sounds reasonable to me. cleanup is supposed to solve the bounce problem seen in yes | juju destroy-environment && juju bootstrap - so if it doesn't, or not reliably, we need to revisit
[00:27] <hazmat> interesting that error kees saw only exhibits in the us-west-1 region
[00:27] <hazmat> the response from ec2 is different
[00:27] <hazmat> so txaws parsing goes awry
[00:27] <hazmat> when stringfing the error msg
[00:29] <_mup_> juju/provisioning-agent-bug-901901 r431 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:29] <_mup_> let the logging package format the exception
[00:29] <jimbaker> hazmat, that is very interesting
[00:43] <adam_g> is it possible to change default-image-id at deploy time?
[00:44] <fwereade_> hazmat, is it deliberate that there's no RelationWorkflow transition from error -> departed?
[00:44] <adam_g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/764414/  :|
[00:49] <hazmat> fwereade_, i believe it was, but in retrospect it seems reasonable that there should be one
[00:49] <fwereade_> hazmat, cool, cheers
[00:49] <hazmat> hmm
[00:51] <fwereade_> hazmat, even if we don't want to fire a departed hook I think we need to be able to make that transition
[00:52] <fwereade_> hazmat, I could be convinced either way on the fire-hook question
[01:08] <osadmin> Whenever I reboot my host juju reports it as stopped even though it is running. Anyone know how to fix this?
[01:10] <osadmin> Anyone, Whenever I reboot my host juju reports it as stopped even though it is running. Anyone know how to fix this?
[01:11] <hazmat> osadmin, having juju survive reboots is a work in progress atm, which provider are you using?
[01:11] <osadmin> hazmat, provider? not sure but I am running the most uptodate ubuntu server version
[01:12] <hazmat> osadmin, are you running juju services on ec2, or physical machines via orchestra, or local/lxc dev on a machine
[01:13] <osadmin> hazmat, running on physical machines via orchestra. hosts are running openstack
[01:17] <hazmat> osadmin, could you pastebin the output of juju status
[01:17] <hazmat> osadmin, at the moment, agents that juju launches aren't set to come back up on machine boot, its something thats being worked on though.
[01:18] <osadmin> hazmat, will do, and fyi here is the doco I followed to create the env
[01:18] <osadmin> hazmat, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ServerTeam/UbuntuCloudOrchestraJuju
[01:20] <osadmin> hazmat, http://pastebin.com/HuzfJqiq
[01:21] <osadmin> hazmat, is there anyway I can manually reset the agent status?
[01:22] <hazmat> osadmin, yes, its a little involved, but the command that launched the agent is in the cloud-init userdata
[01:23] <hazmat> osadmin, its the output of... sudo cat /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt
[01:24] <hazmat> er. its in the output of
[01:24] <osadmin> hazmat, that would be great as I am using "juju ssh" to access the hosts
[01:26] <osadmin> hazmat, ok I have logged into the host and am looking at that file now.
[01:28] <osadmin> hazmat, what do I do with this? Sorry (noob to this stuff)
[01:28] <hazmat> osadmin, hm.. that will start the machine agent.. but that won't start the unit agents..
[01:29] <hazmat> osadmin, so for example this is what i have my in output of that file.. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/764439/
[01:30] <hazmat> osadmin, the command to run the agent is embedded in there... for that output its this one.. JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid
[01:30] <hazmat> you'd just run that with a sudo prefix on the cli
[01:31] <hazmat> the machine will start reporting in, it looks like it will restart the unit agents, so that should do it
[01:32] <osadmin> hazmat, lost my irc for a moment, back now and will look over the pastebin
 osadmin, the command to run the agent is embedded in there... for that output its this one.. JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid
 you'd just run that with a sudo prefix on the cli
[01:33] <osadmin> hazmat, ok
[01:35] <hazmat> osadmin, fwiw i'd recommend running from the ppa, we keep it pretty stable, and when the restartable feature/bug fix lands, it will be there first, there's also some additional status output and fixes that are useful for orchestra usage.
[01:37] <osadmin> hazmat, getting errors I will paste what I did
[01:38] <osadmin> hazmat, http://pastebin.com/dr6BSMZe (added sudo to this command)
[01:38] <hazmat> osadmin, there's a trailing '] that shouldn't be there
[01:39] <osadmin> hazmat, oh, I removed that and got an error, will paste the error
[01:40] <osadmin> http://pastebin.com/CBAqj0gj
[01:40] <osadmin> hazmat, http://pastebin.com/CBAqj0gj
[01:46] <hazmat> osadmin, the full command should look like this..
[01:46] <hazmat>  JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid
[01:46] <hazmat> ie. it specifies environment variables
[01:46] <hazmat> the whole line needs to be used
[01:47] <osadmin> hazmat, I did the following was this wrong?  export JUJU_MACHINE_ID=4; export JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=oscc-01.itos.deakin.edu.au:2181
[01:48] <hazmat> osadmin, that should be fine
[01:48] <hazmat> osadmin, you can't use sudo then
[01:48] <hazmat> the shell environment won't persist through the sudo
[01:48] <hazmat> you'd have to use a root shell if your going to do it that way
[01:49] <osadmin> ok
[01:49] <osadmin> trying
[01:49] <osadmin> no errors
[01:50] <osadmin> hazmat, juju status has not changed however
[01:52] <osadmin> hazmat, I can now "juju ssh" into the host, I will recheck juju status again
[01:53] <osadmin> hazmat, status still says stopped
[01:54] <hazmat> osadmin, can you pastebin the machine agent log file /var/log/juju/machine-agent.log
[01:54] <osadmin> ok
[01:55] <hazmat> osadmin, there's a cli tool that makes that easier.. apt-get install pastebinit
[01:55] <hazmat> and then you can.. cat /var/log/juju/machine-agent.log | pastebinit
[01:55] <hazmat> and it will give you a url
[01:55] <osadmin> thx
[01:56] <hazmat> bcsaller, jimbaker could i get a +1 on this trivial.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/764452/
[01:57] <osadmin> hazmat, host may not be able to get out at this stage. May have to do it the old fashion way.
[02:00] <bcsaller> hazmat: lgtm
[02:00] <osadmin> hazmat, here is the tail of the file you requested http://pastebin.com/Z1QgvpEC
[02:06] <osadmin> hazmat, here is the whole log file. http://pastebin.com/u9SWwc5x
[02:06] <hazmat> hm..
[02:07] <hazmat> osadmin, could you paste log file at /var/lib/juju/units/nova-compute-1/charm.log
[02:08] <hazmat> osadmin, the machine agent looks like its running fine.. the charm.log will show the service unit agent log file
[02:08] <osadmin> hazmat, ok fyi: here is the juju status output. http://pastebin.com/qAhdTggJ
[02:09]  * hazmat nods
[02:11] <_mup_> juju/trunk r431 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:11] <_mup_> [trivial] provisioning agent fix, let the logging package format the exception [f=901901][r=bcsaller]
[02:12] <osadmin> hazmat: tail of the file for starters. http://pastebin.com/Ge63NQvg
[02:22] <osadmin> hazmat,whole of the requested log file is here: http://pastebin.com/9jChCVnS
[02:24] <osadmin> hazmat: 2nd try http://pastebin.com/iHfLuWUh
[02:27] <osadmin> hazmat, lol, grabbed to much with that last pastebin, u may have to scroll down a bit to see the contents of the log file
[02:47] <hazmat> osadmin, yeah.. that's not going to recover without some surgery.. your probably better off just removing the unit, terminating the machine, and adding a new unit
[02:48] <hazmat> ie. juju remove-unit nova-compute/1, juju terminate-machine 4, juju add-unit nova-compute
[02:53] <osadmin> hazmat, thanks. Will do but first, will doing this delete any apps from nova-comput/1?
[02:54] <hazmat> osadmin, it will
[02:54] <hazmat> well.. it probably will
[02:54] <osadmin> om
[02:54] <osadmin> ok
[02:54] <hazmat> i'm not sure if orchestra is going to reinstall the machine when its cleared out
[02:54] <hazmat> er.  shutdown
[02:55] <hazmat> for the next boot.. my understanding is atm it doesn't, so the data would still be there, but i wouldn't count on it
[02:55] <osadmin> I guess I could wait until the fix is released
[02:56] <osadmin> hazmat, d u think the fix will be a while away?
[02:57] <hazmat> osadmin, the fix won't help for an existing installation, there's a branch in review which implements it
[02:57] <hazmat> so not to far away
[02:57] <hazmat> probably another week or two
[02:58] <osadmin> hazmat, thats ok, I will be rebuilding this very soon. If timing is right, I will build with the fixed version. D u think release bfore xmas is poss?
[02:58] <osadmin> ok
[02:58] <osadmin> thanks
[02:58] <hazmat> osadmin, np
[02:59] <osadmin> hazmat, what d u use juju for mainly?
[08:05] <nijaba> Good morning
[08:30] <Sander^work> does juju work with vmware ?
[10:06] <nijaba> SpamapS: @ubuntucloud will republish your tweets, except if you tweets start either by "@ubuntucloud" or "RT" or "♺".  Hence why your tweet was not retweeted
[10:07] <nijaba> SpamapS: so move @ubuntucloud toward the end, and it will be retweeted
[11:01] <shafiqissani> how to deploy wordpress to a single instance
[11:02] <shafiqissani> i.e. bootstrap instance + mysql instance + wordpress instance all on the same instance
[11:05] <rog> shafiqissani: you can't do that currently.
[11:05] <shafiqissani> I see
[11:08] <fwereade> shafiqissani, some people have been bringing up single EC2 instances and running the local provider on just that one instance
[11:09] <fwereade> shafiqissani, so it's not *impossible*, but it is not a configuration we would recommend for production
[11:11] <shafiqissani> fwereade: I know it is not the optimal configuration but imagine it to be on the line of shared hosting
[11:12] <shafiqissani> fwereade: a site or service that does not require high availability and get very little traffic would a scenario for such a configuration
[11:12] <fwereade> shafiqissani, indeed, there are interesting possibilities when units can share machines, and we plan to do something about that -- but it's not on the current roadmap yet
[11:13] <shafiqissani> hm so the solution for now is an ec2 instance with all the deploys runnning on local configuration using lxc as base
[11:13] <shafiqissani> man virtualization inside of virtualization! ... is it just me or does that sound crazy :D
[11:14] <fwereade> shafiqissani, yep; that's the current one-machine solution
[11:14] <fwereade> shafiqissani, heh, I take your point, but juju isn't necessarily working with ec2 "machines": it could be working with real hardware managed by orchestra
[11:15] <shafiqissani> fwereade: right, the service level abstraction ... got it
[12:10] <nijaba> Has anyone used juju scp command successfully?
[12:17] <rog> nijaba: jimbaker's the one to ask about that :-)
[12:17] <nijaba> rog: actually his mail to the ml describing it is more useful than the help for the command.  Got it to work now!
[12:18] <rog> nijaba: cool!
[12:20] <hazmat> Sander^work, no re vmware virtualization, yes wrt to cloud foundry, rabbitmq, etc.
[12:22] <hazmat> nijaba, unfortunate.. it probably should be the help for the command
[12:23] <hazmat> nijaba, what's unclear about the output of juju scp -h
[12:32] <nijaba> hazmat: I think it just lacks an example.  or maybe the "[remote_host:]file1" should be "[remote_host:]sourcefile1" and  [remote_host:]file2 be [remote_host:]destfile1
[12:37] <nijaba> hazmat: also, what would be really cool, is to be able to use scp from a charm to the bootstrap machine.  This way I could put my some file on bootstrap and scp the files from it to the charm automagically
[12:40] <nijaba> hazmat: but I guess I am trying to work around bug 814974
[12:40] <_mup_> Bug #814974: config options need a "file" type <juju:Triaged by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814974 >
[12:52] <_mup_> Bug #902143 was filed: juju set <service_name> --filename does not work <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902143 >
[12:52] <hazmat> nijaba, indeed
[13:07] <koolhead11> marcoceppi: hey
[13:46] <hazmat> bcsaller, none of your branches show up on the kanban view
[13:52] <Sander^work> hazmat, Can juju install several wordpress installations to one apache and one mysql server?
[13:53] <fwereade> hazmat, UnitLifecycle._process_relation_changes has an interesting little dance where all removed relation workflows are explicitly stopped before any depart transitions are fired
[13:54] <hazmat> Sander^work, no, juju would model those as separate services, the wordpress charm is not done in a multi-tenant fashion
[13:54]  * hazmat puts on his dancing shoes
[13:54] <fwereade> hazmat, this seems to be intended to ensure that no other hook executions (from joined, say) can sneak in once we know that we're departing
[13:55] <hazmat> fwereade, interesting, indeed, thats seems quite correct
[13:55] <fwereade> hazmat, but I don't see how it can work; stop itself will yield
[13:56] <hazmat> fwereade, the logical flow to depart takes account the yield
[13:57] <fwereade> hazmat, sorry, don't follow, restate please
[13:57] <hazmat> fwereade, at the end of the stop, the scheduler is stopped, their maybe a hook execution that will happen before the depart, but the depart will be last
[13:59] <Sander^work> hazmat, so it's possible to create a new wordpress charm that can be deployed twince to one instance?
[14:00] <hazmat> fwereade, the concurrency on the yield isn't relevant in this context, because at the end of the stop method the scheduler which serves as a sync point is stopped, and concurrent notifications/executions go through the scheduler,  the depart directly schedules on the executioner, and it will be post any concurrent activity from the rel.
[14:00] <hazmat> Sander^work, juju doesn't do density outside of the local provider atm
[14:01] <hazmat> and the local provider isn't routable
[14:01] <fwereade> hazmat, ...if that's the case, why don't we just stop inside the do_depart method on workflow?
[14:01] <fwereade> hazmat, which we do in fact do
[14:02] <Sander^work> hazmat, what is a local provider?
[14:03] <fwereade> hazmat, I'm worrying we really shouldn't execute normal relation hooks at all once we know we've departed, because we can't be sure that all the relevant state still exists
[14:03] <hazmat> Sander^work, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html
[14:04] <hazmat> fwereade, moving stop to inside do_depart is fine, but i don't see how that changes what happens
[14:04] <hazmat> fwereade, we execute stop immediately after we're notified
[14:04] <fwereade> hazmat, but this may just be because I'm still a little bit unsure about (1) what state needs to exist to run a relation hook and (2) what state may or may not be suddenly cleared by client operations
[14:04] <hazmat> fwereade, and the zk structures are in place
[14:06] <fwereade> hazmat, if all the necessary zk structures will remain in place throughout all client operations, then there's no need for the dance, right?
[14:06] <hazmat> fwereade, the comment directly reasons why the dance is there
[14:07] <hazmat> to avoid things like.. modify after depart
[14:07] <Sander^work> hazmat, what do you mean by "do density" ?
[14:07] <hazmat> Sander^work, multiple units on a single 'machine'
[14:08] <fwereade> hazmat, you just said "fwereade, moving stop to inside do_depart is fine, but i don't see how that changes what happens"; I'm confused
[14:08] <Sander^work> hazmat, ah, ok. Is there any reason why it dosn't do density outside of the local provider?
[14:08] <fwereade> hazmat, either all we care about is stop-before-depart, in which case we can move it; or the little stop-everything-and-only-then-depart-everything dance is unnecessary
[14:09] <fwereade> hazmat, ...right?
[14:09] <fwereade> hazmat, sorry, scrambled something there
[14:13] <fwereade> hazmat, stepping back
[14:14] <fwereade> hazmat, (1) the only thing we care about is that no other relation hooks can fire once the relation-broken hook is has done so; agree?
[14:15] <fwereade> hazmat, (2) once we've called stop(), we can be sure that no other relation hooks will fire; agree?
[14:16] <hazmat> Sander^work, there's some work that will achieve density in a consenting adults fashion via unit placement/resource constraints, there's additional work being done to allow subordinate charms to live in a container with a parent/master charm for things like logging etc. The main reason for lack of density in a rigorous fashion, is that juju allows for dynamic port usage by a charm, and this is problematic when putting two independent cha
[14:16] <hazmat> rms with port conflicts on the same machine, a the conflict is undetectable apriori. there's some talk of using like a soft network overlay to alleviate that for density, but its not on the roadmap atm
[14:16] <fwereade> hazmat, (3) therefore, we can call lifecycle.stop() in workflow.do_depart(), and we can guarantee that from that point on no further hooks can be scheduled , so we're safe to just run lifecycle.depart(); agree?
[14:18] <hazmat> 1) yes, 2) yes, but one may be currently executing, 3) yes
[14:18] <fwereade> hazmat, and if you do agree with all the above, I don't understand the purpose of the dance, because it's just duplicating work already done in do_depart
[14:18] <hazmat> fwereade, the purpose of the dance is to immediately stop all broken hooks
[14:19] <hazmat> fwereade, if you do it in depart, your having exeuctions of a depart hooks, and more hooks for broken relations can be executing, as the rels are serially stopped.
[14:20] <hazmat> where as the dance ensures all rels that are broken are stopped, and then executes their individual depart hooks
[14:20] <hazmat> er. broken hooks via depart transition
[14:20] <Sander^work> hazmat, I whould like to see a diffrence on density when it comes to applications that uses another service's port. 2x Wordpress can easily be installed into one apache instance without any port issues.
[14:21] <hazmat> Sander^work, you could write a wordpress charm that encapsulated that capability, ie multi-tenant wordpress hosting in a single unit
[14:22] <fwereade_> hazmat, is that correct, or am I still missing something?
[14:23] <hazmat> fwereade, say i have 5 broken relations, the current dance ensures all 5 are stopped before executing any of their depart hooks
[14:24] <hazmat> fwereade, your suggesting that we go through each of the rels, stop it execute its broken hook, and then process the next
[14:24] <fwereade_> hazmat, what would be the negative consequences of failing to do so?
[14:25] <fwereade_> hazmat, really that we just go through each and fire the departed transition, and trust the transition to ensure the lifecycle is stopped
[14:25] <hazmat> fwereade, the problem is that may be events for those 5, that are happening and scheduling/executing hooks while your executing for the one.. ie your processing htem in serial
[14:25] <hazmat> which means your getting hook execution for those not processed, even though the rel is known to be broken
[14:26] <Sander^work> hazmat, Am I understanding it right?.. So I then can deploy wordpresse installs on demand into customer's directories for one fixed apache instance?
[14:27] <fwereade_> hazmat, ok, that's fine; but we can't be sure that won't happen anyway, can we? we yield several times in the course of stopping all those lifecycles, and the not-yet-stopped ones could still be scheduling hooks
[14:27] <hazmat> Sander^work, a charm can do whatever it wants to do on a machine, in this case you'd have to write the charm yourself
[14:27] <hazmat> the existing wordpress charm doesn't address that use case
[14:29] <fwereade_> hazmat, and if it's a situation we're already prepared to accept, I don't see that reducing its incidence is exceptionally important
[14:29] <hazmat> fwereade_, indeed its an optimistic guarantee not an absolute, if there is concurrent activity happening at that sec
[14:29] <Sander^work> hazmat, Ok. Do you know about any documents I should read to be able to write a charm like that?
[14:29] <fwereade_> hazmat, and the consequences of unjustified optimism could be, at worst, ..?
[14:29] <hazmat> fwereade_, the goal is minimizing hook execution for hooks known broken, waiting on a scheduler is minimal
[14:30] <hazmat> waiting on hook executions creates a large gap
[14:30] <fwereade_> hazmat, ok, thanks for clearing that up; the original comment seemed to me to be suggesting that the stop would prevent *any* extra hooks from slipping in
[14:34] <hazmat> fwereade_, we could probably offer a better guarantee of that, if we stopped the executor, but given that's a shared resource i felt more comfortable with minimizing the possibility.. and the reality is that there is the possibility that a rel hook is executing when we get the notification the rel is broken
[14:35] <hazmat> since the schedulers feed into the executor, stopping it there suffices
[14:35] <marcoceppi> koolhead11: hey
[14:35] <fwereade_> hazmat, yeah, I pondered stopping the executor, it wouldn't be a nice solution
[14:35] <hazmat> and the currently executing rel hook
[14:35] <hazmat> is always a possibility
[14:36] <fwereade_> hazmat, I must be missing something about the significance of a currently executing rel hook
[14:36] <hazmat> fwereade_, feel free to add to the comment about this
[14:36] <fwereade_> hazmat, I will :)
[14:38] <hazmat> Sander^work, well the general understanding of charms helps, but first just figuring out how you do it outside of charms is helpful
[14:39] <hazmat> Sander^work, http://askubuntu.com/questions/82683/what-juju-charm-hooks-are-available-and-what-does-each-one-do  http://askubuntu.com/questions/84656/where-can-i-find-the-logs-of-irc-charm-school
[14:44] <SpamapS> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_Redmine_with_MySQL_Thin_and_Redmine_on_Debian_Squeeze  ... looks like a charm to me. ;)
[14:45] <jimbaker> nijaba, sure, sounds like a good idea to augment juju scp (and other commands that need it) with more example-oriented help
[14:49] <SpamapS> jimbaker: we call that "man pages"
[14:49] <SpamapS> and you guys wanted me to make juju auto-generated which I've been looking into
[14:50] <SpamapS> err.. language.. not quite unthawed from sleep.. rrrrrr
[14:52] <TheMue> We don't have a kind of "juju retrieve-environment ..." to retrieve a somewhere else setup environment and merge it into the own one.
[14:54] <TheMue> The intention is that a 2nd new operator can easily extend  his environment to take over the administration of an environment.
[14:57] <Sander^work> hazmat, is it possible to write a charm that deploys eg. wordpress over an ftp connection?
[14:59] <SpamapS> TheMue: I think that would be brilliant
[14:59] <SpamapS> Sander^work: no, juju is built on the ability to own whole servers.
[15:00] <SpamapS> Sander^work: you could write a charm which deploys a webservice + ftp onto a machine which accepts wordpress uploads. ;)
[15:04] <TheMue> SpamapS: Aaargh, "bootstrap" has to be renamed! I allways do the same typo here. (smile)
[15:04] <Sander^work> SpamapS, Okay.. Is it possible to deploy a charm.. where an ldap database defines which uid/gid the files deployed is owned by?
[15:04] <SpamapS> Sander^work: certainly
[15:05] <SpamapS> Sander^work: things like system policy are hard right now.. dev work has just begun on a feature to separate system policy charms from servie charms.
[15:05] <SpamapS> service even
[15:07] <Sander^work> I'm using apache with an ldap module an mod_fcgid so every vhost get it's own uid.
[15:07] <SpamapS> Sander^work: yeah, that would be quite doable
[15:09] <Sander^work> Whould love to be able to deploy our whole architecture trough a set of charms :-)
[15:10] <SpamapS> TheMue: one thing to consider with the idea of retrieve-environment is that there is a desire, eventually, for environments.yaml to be limited to only facts that help you find and authenticate to the environment...
[15:10] <SpamapS> TheMue: any of the settings would be stored and managed inside ZK
[15:11] <SpamapS> Sander^work: we'd love for you to be able to do that too.
[15:12] <SpamapS> Sander^work: charms are just scripts in whatever language you want... so you can just duplicate whatever you have now into a charm. :)
[15:15] <TheMue> So the new admin only should get those facts. Once added his commands would use the ZK on the bootstrap instance, wouldn't they?
[15:15] <mchenetz> I tried asking this on the Vagrant chat, but i think everyone is asleep. :-) Has anyone tried to implement Juju in Vagrant? I would be interested in working on that if not.
[15:27] <TheMue> SpamapS: Where do I find the environment on the bootstrap instance? Only in ZK or does a file exists?
[15:39] <nijaba> SpamapS: rouncube charm now has https support
[15:42] <SpamapS> mchenetz: No but I figure its probably possible
[15:43] <SpamapS> mchenetz: the local provider is basically vagrant-like tho
[15:44] <mchenetz> Spamaps: hmmm I am just learning Juju… What is the local provider?
[15:44] <SpamapS> mchenetz: spins up 'machines' by way of LXC containers
[15:44] <SpamapS> mchenetz: instead of using EC2 or a hardware provisioning system
[15:45] <SpamapS> mchenetz: so its quite useful for testing things disconnected
[15:45] <mchenetz> hmmm, interesting. I will look into that. I still think it would be nice to integrate it into Vagrant as i use it a lot and it already has chef and puppet...
[15:45] <SpamapS> mchenetz: juju is more like vagrant than chef or puppet
[15:45] <mchenetz> Definitely… I do a lot of deployments in the cloud for some hugh customers… Juju is definitely going to be a big part of my future!
[15:46] <mchenetz> I watched the webinar yesterday and my head is spinning with ideas
[15:47] <SpamapS> mchenetz: so it wouldn't really make sense for vagrant to run juju at the same level as chef or puppet... juju doesn't have a DSL or a big library of configuration tools. Its just for coordinating and orchestrating these encapsulated services.
[15:47] <SpamapS> mchenetz: I was "Clint" from the webinar. :) any questions?
[15:47] <SpamapS> mchenetz: and thanks for watching!!
[15:48] <SpamapS> mchenetz: I'm quit interested to hear how your vagrant knowledge maps to juju.
[15:49] <mchenetz> hehe, i asked the security question the other day. I am mainly an enterprise security consultant. So, i am thinking about how i can create charms that would encompass some security vm's into the solution. I am thinking about creating some special firewall and ids modules that integrate with juju charms
[15:50] <mchenetz> I will definitely keep you informed on how Vagrant and juju map up. :-)
[15:50] <SpamapS> mchenetz: complex networking, thus far, has not been a part of the juju conversation.. but the colocation (or actually, subordination) work that is going on will enable that quite nicely.
[15:51] <SpamapS> mchenetz: note that the security model of juju is still evolving, I'd love to hear your input on how important it is. There are a few bugs tagged "security" that are sort of our second priority.
[15:51] <mchenetz> I would like to be able to say add-firewall port-80 relation or something to that effect and it will add a firewall and maybe some die monitoring too
[15:51] <mchenetz> not die… ids...
[15:52] <SpamapS> mchenetz: well in EC2 nothing is accessible from outside -> inside
[15:52] <SpamapS> mchenetz: we use the ec2 ingress firewall extensively
[15:52] <mchenetz> thats true… I am not just thinking ec2 though…
[15:52] <SpamapS> mchenetz: you could write a firewall subordinate charm and do exactly what you're talking about
[15:52] <mchenetz> thats what i am thinking about
[15:53] <SpamapS> mchenetz: subordinate charms are just charms that live inside the same container as other charms
[15:54] <mchenetz> yeah.. aim a little familiar with how the charm structure works now. I am quickly getting up to speed.
[15:54] <mchenetz> I would love to help out on the security side if you guys need any assistance
[15:58] <TheMue> Hmmm, funny, I can expose a wordpress w/o a mysql instance. I would have expected an error due to the not fulfilled requirement.
[16:00] <SpamapS> TheMue: the wordpress charm should not have any open port yet though
[16:00] <SpamapS> TheMue: open-port 80 should only happen after the db is configurd
[16:01] <SpamapS> TheMue: since the system is async.. its not an "error" .. you just don't get any open port
[16:04] <koolhead11> i am trying to deploy a charm and i need some assistance
[16:04] <koolhead11> i have moved the charm from /usr/share/doc/juju/oneiric directory
[16:04] <koolhead11> to my /home/juju directory
[16:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'm still really confused why docs needs to be a separate series and why we can't just agree that the docs dir under the trunk has a different policy. I'm *very* concerned now that the docs will get out of sync w/ trunk.
[16:05] <koolhead11> when am trying  juju deploy --repository=/home/atul/juju  local:mysql
[16:05] <TheMue> SpamapS: I understand, and I should have had a debug-log open. *gna*
[16:06] <koolhead11> ERROR Charm 'local:oneiric/mysql' not found in repository /home/atul/juju
[16:06] <SpamapS> TheMue: I don't necessarily think that having debug-log going all the time is a good idea ;)
[16:07] <SpamapS> koolhead11: you need the series in there
[16:07] <SpamapS> koolhead11: mkdir /home/atul/juju/oneiric
[16:07] <SpamapS> koolhead11: and move the charms into that dir
[16:07] <koolhead11> SpamapS: ok
[16:08] <TheMue> SpamapS: debug-hooks are better? I'm currently want to so what's going around.
[16:09] <koolhead11> so SpamapS my charm will be in /home/atul/juju/oneiric
[16:09] <SpamapS> TheMue: while developing and learning its probably a good idea.. I think though at some point we have to look at it as users of the charm, who won't necessarily be able to consume all of that data.
[16:09] <koolhead11> and i will deploy with
[16:09] <SpamapS> koolhead11: right
[16:09] <koolhead11> juju deploy --repository=/home/atul/juju  local:mysql
[16:09] <koolhead11> ok
[16:10] <SpamapS> koolhead11: that is necessary so that we can match the OS series with the charms for that OS
[16:10] <mchenetz> Where do i find information on using a local provider in Juju?
[16:11] <hazmat> SpamapS, let's give it a try, we can evaluate before 12.04 if its not worthwhile and move it back, but i'm hoping its still a benefit to getting doc contributions
[16:13] <SpamapS> hazmat: as long as we agree to actually put a version number on juju so the disconnected docs can be written to a specific version, it should work. I'm just not confident about that. ;)
[16:14] <hazmat> TheMue, there was a spec out for doing import / export of environments, but it ran afoul of want for a design of service groups aka stacks as a first class entity that was modeled and agreed upon.
[16:14] <hazmat> SpamapS, we call winners on that bet at uds ;-)
[16:15] <SpamapS> hazmat: we should maybe think about putting version strings in juju and having a release process now that we have, you know, users. ;)
[16:15] <hazmat> SpamapS, i should investigate read the docs some more. i know we tried moved on, but i believe it has support for multiple versions
[16:16] <TheMue> hazmat: thx for the info
[16:16] <_mup_> Bug #902219 was filed: config values of 0 are discarded <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902219 >
[16:16] <hazmat> SpamapS, sounds good, would you mind putting in  a bug for that?
[16:17] <mchenetz> Found the doc: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html, Doesn't survive reboots? That isn't good for my scenario as i stage development code in the local environment.
[16:20] <hazmat> mchenetz, it will survive reboots for 12.04, but no it doesn't survive reboots, or even hibernates at the moment.
[16:21] <hazmat> mchenetz, you'd also have to manually connect the bridge that the lxc containers are bound to allow external connectivity to them off the host.
[16:21] <hazmat> or port forward from the host
[16:22] <mchenetz> okay. good to know. can i make a charm for that. :-)
[16:23] <mchenetz> What i would like to do is give developers a local environment to develop in and then move the units to the cloud for test an production.
[16:23] <mchenetz> Which i think is the whole purpose of juju. Easily move and provision units.
[16:26] <SpamapS> hazmat: this feels like a blueprint, there are really 3 things that need to happen. 1- add versions to the juju --help, 2- ratify and agree to maintain a stable branch. 3- Setup a PPA that just has the latest stable release.
[16:26] <hazmat> mchenetz, well.. when you say move.. its not moving the data, you can develop/stage local and the copy the configuration/charms to a different cloud, but that doesn't sync data.. you'd need a separate charm/service for data syncing, right now.. juju environments do not bridge clouds.
[16:27] <hazmat> each environment is specific to a provider, but you can have multiple environments in a given provider.
[16:27] <SpamapS> mchenetz: for what you're talking about.. you'd just repeat the local deployment into the cloud
[16:27] <mchenetz> I was thinking that i can utilize charms that would say, install mysql, and apache, and then create the relations for multiple environments. As long as i create charms that have the glue code then it should work. Correct?
[16:28] <mchenetz> And again… I am still learning Juju… I learn very fast, but if it sounds like a stupid question it's just that i haven't learned it all yet. :-)
[16:29] <hazmat> mchenetz, yes the charms are meant to capture the configuration/best practices for a service in a provider independent fashion
[16:29] <SpamapS> mchenetz: eventually there's the idea that we'd be able to create a relationship between two environments .. but thats not done yet. ;)
[16:29] <hazmat> mcclurmc, so you could deploy the same mysql/apache/appserver setup in multiple environments
[16:29] <mchenetz> Spamaps… That sound awesome
[16:30] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: I eagerly await that idea :)
[16:30] <SpamapS> mchenetz: its already possible.. you can write a cloud-bridge charm that exchanges anything you need to exchange between the two envs.. and just use service configs to get them talking to eachother.
[16:30] <hazmat> and even then you need an underlying setup that syncs data
[16:31] <SpamapS> I bet I could get the mysql charm to expose config settings to allow external slaves/masters
[16:31] <hazmat> well maybe not it could just offer access, but wan connectivity solutions are better at a data tier
[16:31] <mchenetz> I don't mind creating, "glue" to connect disparate environments. I just need to know that limitations so that i implement things in the most efficient way.
[16:32] <hazmat> marcoceppi, mchenetz so the first cut at gluing disseparate environments is a proxy charm that will relay notifications to a remote endpoint
[16:32] <hazmat> you'd deploy a proxy service in each environment, bind it locally to the relations of interest, and then connect the proxy endpoints
[16:32] <hazmat> at least that's one option
[16:33] <SpamapS> I took a stab at making an 'othercloud' charm that would use the juju client to talk to another juju env but the lack of wildcard interfaces made it not work like I wanted.
[16:33]  * hazmat nods
[16:33] <hazmat> SpamapS, it would need support in the core, for basically assuming the interfaces of the proxy target
[16:33] <mchenetz> hazmat: that makes sense… To me, it sounds like i would use ssh to create a tunnel between the envirnments
[16:33] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  hazmat: I was under the impression that orchestra was preferred for stringing multiple clouds into one env?
[16:33] <SpamapS> really.. if you want cross-cloud cross-AZ .. you probably want to make conscious decisions about what crosses those boundaries.
[16:33] <mchenetz> Then just run commands locally and remotely
[16:33] <hazmat> mcclurmc, any secure transport would work
[16:34] <hazmat> whoops
[16:34] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: that wouldn't really work. ;)
[16:34] <hazmat> mchenetz, i was thinking zeromq with encrypted messages would do it
[16:34] <mchenetz> I haven't used that. I will definitely look into it
[16:34] <hazmat> but i'm very much thinking like an app developer ;-)
[16:34] <SpamapS> hazmat: yeah, thats when I gave up on it, when I realized unless I can make relations dynamic it just won't work.
[16:35] <mchenetz> It's interesting… I grew up as a hacker of code with bbs's in the early days and then became a network engineer. So, i think in terms of both code and network infrastructure. :-)
[16:35] <SpamapS> hazmat:  I think an ops guy would be fine with that as long as it was simple to understand and monitor.
[16:36] <SpamapS> mchenetz: WWIV vs. Telegard ... GO
[16:36] <mchenetz> hehe, i ran rbis originally and then WWIV, good old wayne bell
[16:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, so this go further into a notion of charms that juju distributes and core services, given things like we could offer additional syntax for cross-env relations
[16:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: yeah that would make sense.
[16:39]  * SpamapS prepares for an Ubuntu bug triage rampage today
[16:39] <mchenetz> To me, as long as you create the appropriate abstraction on the top level and the disparate environments have similar functionality then it really shouldn't matter what environment you are on...
[16:39] <marcoceppi> I guess I'm just confused about how to best tackle a scenario using Juju
[16:40] <mchenetz> there should be the idea of move-unit [enironment]
[16:40] <mchenetz> and again.. i don't know juju that much yet...
[16:41] <marcoceppi> I have three bare metal machines, lets say, each running an acceptable provider by Juju - I assume each would be it's own juju environment then?
[16:42] <marcoceppi> nevermind actually
[16:42] <hazmat> mchenetz, that assumes integrated volume management storage, even for just unit migration within an environment, and frankly at scale moving data across wans is a non transparent operation to QOS.
[16:43] <hazmat> its potentially a  huge impact on network resources, and a multi-day operation
[16:43] <mchenetz> hazmat: As long as the backend code accommodates the variables for that. Why would it matter? You can give the instructions for syncing code and throttling and so forth...
[16:44] <mchenetz> syncing db's and such...
[16:44] <mchenetz> It could say use-link [interface]  throttle [50%] of link or something like that
[16:45] <mchenetz> this is all conceptual
[16:45] <mchenetz> It could then set the proper qos tagging and such in the backend and setup the interface to use and maybe the timeframe
[16:46] <hazmat> mchenetz, move-unit is a generic capability to any service.. what a service/charm chooses to expose can be accomodated by something like a proxy without charm knowledge, or the functionality could be incorporated directly into a charm.
[16:46] <hazmat> mchenetz, more interesting though, juju right now is its infancy wrt to how it approaches networking.. i'm curious though what you would think of juju managing a soft overlay network that spanned machines
[16:47] <mchenetz> That would be very interesting. So, are you talking about creating a networking abstraction that would be unrelated to a single machine?
[16:48] <mchenetz> Can you elaborate on what you are thinking?
[16:49] <hazmat> mchenetz, yes.. this is a while out most likely.. but the notion of getting unit density on a machine, where each unit is an lxc container,  to be abstract to a provider, we need to establish a soft overlay net that we'd plug the lxc containers into, probably with something like openvswitch or just using openstack's quantum
[16:50] <hazmat> part of the problem is that we end up needing a bridge to reconnect the overlay, but the notion is for exposed services we would port forward
[16:50] <hazmat> it give us much better capabilties to expose in terms of setting up vlans etc
[16:51] <hazmat> but its also a pita
[16:51] <mchenetz> hmmm… interesting.. You could potentially keep the environments networked permanently through the virtual switch and then exchange data and move things where they need to be. I like it… It doesn't seem like it would take too much either.
[16:58] <mchenetz> I will definitely have more to contribute in the upcoming weeks as i learn juju. It's definitely a project i would like to be involved in.
[16:59] <mchenetz> I am just ingesting all of the knowledge right now. :-)
[17:02] <hazmat> mchenetz, awesome, probably the best way to get introduced to juju is to write a charm or have a look at some existing ones.. http://charms.kapilt.com
[17:02] <mchenetz> I am planning on writing many charms and looking at existing ones. ;-)
[17:04] <koolhead11> hazmat: revision  and config.yaml   are compulsary files to be with a charm
[17:04] <koolhead11> ?
[17:05] <koolhead11> i am learning writing juju with writing simplest charm which does things simply with apt-get isntall
[17:05] <koolhead11> *install
[17:06] <koolhead11> i moved mysql example in same directory and same part worked and charm got initialized
[17:09] <hazmat> koolhead11, config.yaml isn't, revision is
[17:10] <koolhead11> hazmat: i am using the existing mysql example
[17:10] <koolhead11> and i see a file with name revision there
[17:10] <koolhead11> notthing mentioned about same in config.yaml file
[17:11] <koolhead11> so i created both files accordingly and created hooks sub directory inside it
[17:12] <koolhead11> added options: {} in config.yaml file
[17:13] <koolhead11> i am just clueless while this thing is not working :(
[17:14] <hazmat> koolhead11, what do you mean by not working?
[17:14] <hazmat> can you deploy your charm?
[17:14] <koolhead11> hazmat: i get error in deploying charm i wrote
[17:17] <koolhead11> hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/765110/
[17:18] <koolhead11> i have created a directory inside example named "oneiric"
[17:18] <koolhead11> and put the charm for boa inside it
[17:18] <koolhead11> and executing juju deploy --repository=example local:boa
[17:18] <koolhead11> while my pwd is /home/atul
[17:18] <hazmat> koolhead11, the path to boa should be /home/atul/example/oneiric/boa
[17:19] <koolhead11> hazmat: that is where boa is
[17:19] <mchenetz> I see some charm developers are using augeas to create/modify configs. This seems interesting. I never heard of that tool
[17:19] <hazmat> that directory should contain the metadata.yaml file, if your using a recent ppa, and there's a syntax error in the charm, it should report it
[17:20] <koolhead11> i am using oneiric and installed default juju
[17:20] <hazmat> mchenetz, its a bit like a generic dom api for configuration, some folks prefer writing out the whole config, some prefer patching in place.
[17:20] <koolhead11> from repo rather PPA
[17:20] <hazmat> koolhead11, so you are using the ppa?
[17:21] <mchenetz> Is there a standard you guys like in terms of directories? I notice the .aug files are in the root instead of the hooks directory...
[17:21] <koolhead11> hazmat: i have not added any PPA manually, installed juju which came with default
[17:21] <koolhead11> with oneiric
[17:21] <mchenetz> I really should read the documentation. :-)
[17:22] <koolhead11> hazmat: /home/atul/example/oneiric/boa   its very much here
[17:22] <koolhead11> and also i have metadata.yaml file there
[17:23] <hazmat> koolhead11, then you probably have a yaml error
[17:24] <hazmat> koolhead11, the ppa version will detect and report yaml errors, the default version in oneiric just won't find the charm
[17:24] <koolhead11> then why the error log says error in path
[17:24] <koolhead11> hazmat: point me to PPA am upgrading juju from there
[17:26] <hazmat> koolhead11, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:juju/pkgs && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade juju
[17:26] <koolhead11> cool
[17:27] <SpamapS> koolhead11: can you push your charm up to a branch on launchpad?
[17:27] <koolhead11> SpamapS: sure once am home.
[17:29] <koolhead11> catch u guys in sometime
[17:29]  * koolhead11 rushes 4 home
[17:30] <nijaba> SpamapS: if you feel like reviewing a charm, feel free to take a look at my roundcube one ;)
[17:31] <SpamapS> nijaba: I have some other queues to tend to today (server bug triage and SRU's), but I won't be able to resist reviewing your charm all weekend. ;)
[17:31] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: did you already have a look at it?
[17:31] <nijaba> SpamapS: he did
[17:31] <SpamapS> Oh, so, what do you need me for? ;)
[17:32] <nijaba> SpamapS: to make it official? can't wait for your comments either, specially on the https handling
[17:32] <SpamapS> as the #4 contributor to lp:charm (see https://launchpad.net/charm) I'd say he's quite qualified to ack and promulgate it :)
[17:33] <fwereade__> I need to stop for a little while, back later
[17:33] <SpamapS> I've actually wanted roundcube for some time as I plan to replace my crappy hastymail solution with it. :)
[17:34] <nijaba> SpamapS: he said he would feel more confortable with you reviwing it first.  He might need some re-assurance :)
[17:34] <mchenetz> I know this is a matter of opinion but… I have been using Eucalyptus for a long time because it is API compliant with Amazon EC2. Is there any advantage to going over to openstack? Anything from a juju side?
[17:34] <SpamapS> nijaba: roger that. I'll take a loko between ubuntu bugs and SRU's ;)
[17:34] <nijaba> SpamapS: no hurrry. cheers
[17:34] <SpamapS> mchenetz: Euca is very expensive to scale up
[17:35] <mchenetz> spamaps: I always hear that
[17:35] <SpamapS> mchenetz: if you have a working euca solution with a narrow focus, probably best to just stick with it.
[17:35] <nijaba> mchenetz: and hard to make HA (if posisble)
[17:35] <mchenetz> I am definitely thinking about scalability for my customers. I think i am going to have to look at openstack...
[17:36] <mchenetz> I think i will keep my dev in Eucalyptus
[17:36] <nijaba> mchenetz: the fact that more and more provider are announcing public cloud based on OpenStack feel very re-assuring
[17:37] <SpamapS> mchenetz: OpenStack is also more loosely coupled.. I find that attractive.
[17:37] <mchenetz> I will definitely have to put it on my agenda to get familiar with Openstack...
[17:37] <SpamapS> robbiew: hey how did your BOF go?
[17:37] <mchenetz> Thanks for the comments
[17:37] <robbiew> SpamapS: was great..attendance was so-so...but the BoFs started at 8pm
[17:38] <robbiew> after dinner
[17:38] <robbiew> luckily mine was BEFORE Google's beer and "icecream" social
[17:38] <robbiew> :P
[17:38] <robbiew> we should definitely have a Charm School at the next year's
[17:38] <robbiew> TOTALLY our crowd here
[17:38] <robbiew> and next year will be in San Diego...not Boston.
[17:39] <mchenetz> Any plans on a east coast charm school? I live close to Philly and about an 1hr from NY
[17:39] <robbiew> mchenetz: jcastro is the man with the plan on Charm Schools...I would expect we'd have one though
[17:40] <robbiew> we'd prefer it to be tied to some sort of pre-existing event though....the ones on IRC are pretty good too ;)
[17:40] <mchenetz> I would have to get in touch with him. I don't think i saw one when i looked
[17:40] <mchenetz> There's irc ones?
[17:41] <SpamapS> robbiew: *w00t*
[17:41] <SpamapS> mchenetz: I'd hope we can co-locate a charm school with Surge
[17:42] <SpamapS> mchenetz: we plan to have a charm school every couple of months on IRC
[17:42] <mchenetz> SpamapS: cool…. sounds good
[17:43] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: Cool, wasn't sure if you wanted to a two person review or not :)
[17:44] <marcoceppi> nijaba: I'll take a look at the SSL implementation and promulgate it after lunch :)
[17:44] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: only if you feel like you aren't 100% sure its ok
[17:44] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: gotchya, cool
[17:47] <nijaba> marcoceppi: thanks :)
[17:55] <robbiew> SpamapS: I did a local deployment of ThinkUp to demo the LXC stuff...worked perfectly
[17:55] <robbiew> then I showed them a real ec2 deployment of the same thing...already running to compare
[17:55] <robbiew> then I blew both away...and then did a live hadoop ec2 deployment
[17:55] <robbiew> ran terrasort...and scaled it live
[17:55] <robbiew> BAM!
[17:56] <rog> i'm off for the weekend now. see y'all tuesday (i'm off monday)
[17:56] <robbiew> had ganglia setup with auto-refresh plugin for chrome browser
[17:56] <robbiew> everyone was really impressed...and they GOT it, b/c this crowd knows their shit
[17:57] <hazmat> robbiew, nice
[17:57] <hazmat> rog, cheers
[17:57] <nijaba> robbiew: impressive!
[17:57] <nijaba> welcome home, koolhead17 ;)
[17:57] <robbiew> then I told them I learned all this on Tuesday
[17:57] <robbiew> :)
[17:57] <koolhead17> hehe nijaba:)
[17:58] <robbiew> though I've obviously known HOW to do it for quite sometime...but never got my hands "dirty" until this week
[17:58] <nijaba> rog: have a good long we
[17:58] <robbiew> I've found juju to be a bit addictive...like, "what can I deploy now?"
[17:59] <nijaba> robbiew: tell me about it.  I'm finding myself asking what else can I charm :D
[18:00] <robbiew> this whole juju thing just *might* have legs
[18:01] <robbiew> lol
[18:01] <SpamapS> robbiew: \o/ .. sounds awesome
[18:02] <robbiew> SpamapS: yeah...LISA'12 is going on my "give them money and love" list for next year
[18:02] <SpamapS> robbiew: we should write a script that just deploys the entire charm store on t1.micro's and relates everything that can be related
[18:02] <SpamapS> Right now that would be like, 40 t1.micro's .. so it would cost about $1.
[18:02] <robbiew> lol
[18:02] <robbiew> one charm to rule them all!
[18:03] <SpamapS> juju deploy *
[18:03] <robbiew> oh man
[18:03] <robbiew> you'd have to script the relations though
[18:03] <robbiew> or just talking about deploying only
[18:04] <SpamapS> yeah
[18:04] <SpamapS> 1 haproxy would not actually be able to serve every website, unfortunately
[18:05] <robbiew> heh
[18:05] <marcoceppi> Juju was great, until I got my Amazon bill :P
[18:05] <SpamapS> haproxy is a "monogamous" charm.
[18:05] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: LOL!
[18:06] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: thsi is all an evil plan to get people to setup openstack clouds
[18:06] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: I'm seriously considering setting up an openstack cloud at my house
[18:11]  * koolhead17 searching 2 two mintues bzr guide
[18:12] <jelmer> koolhead17: how about 5 minutes? http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
[18:12] <koolhead17> jelmer: 3 mins is ok :) thanks
[18:13] <koolhead17> jelmer: am on LTS so all this command will work for it too. :)
[18:13] <mchenetz> SpamapS: I plan to have an Openstack server running at my house this weekend. ;-)
[18:14] <koolhead17> LTS lucid
[18:15] <robbiew> mchenetz: nice!
[18:15] <EvilBill> I'm itching for more info on deploying openstack with juju.
[18:15] <robbiew> fwiw, we're making sure openstack is easily deployable from the installer in 12.04
[18:15] <robbiew> EvilBill: talk to adam_g :)
[18:16] <EvilBill> I will. Played with juju about three weeks ago when I was between gigs, dug it a lot, but curious as to why the bootstrap node can't co-exist with where the juju client is running.
[18:16] <EvilBill> or maybe I'm just conceptually missing something.
[18:17] <EvilBill> I was trying to multitask between spending time with the family and learning something new, and I think I didn't do either thing very well.
[18:17] <robbiew> family? what's that?
[18:17] <EvilBill> lol
[18:19] <SpamapS> EvilBill: the bootstrap is really just ZooKeeper + the provisioning agent. It can't live with the client because clients can come and go (laptops.. workstations, etc)
[18:19] <EvilBill> OK, well, what I did was setup an orchestra server and had it working with two other machines at home with wake-on-lan, etc.
[18:19] <EvilBill> so Orchestra would rev up a bare-metal box on command
[18:20] <EvilBill> tied that into juju, and when I'd do a juju bootstrap, a machine would turn on and go install and become the bootstrap node
[18:20] <SpamapS> EvilBill: You *can* make the bootstrap node a VM on the orchestra server
[18:20] <EvilBill> but it sounds like a full machine JUST for bootstrapping seems silly.
[18:20] <EvilBill> That's what I didn't get around to playing with or figuring out
[18:20] <SpamapS> EvilBill: we even talked about having that be the default at one point.
[18:21] <SpamapS> EvilBill: its fairly simple to provision VMs in cobbler just like regular machines.
[18:21] <EvilBill> ok, so that begs the next question, what's the preferred VM framework?
[18:22] <EvilBill> my orchestra machine is an old laptop with a Core Duo, so it's not 64-bit capable.
[18:22] <EvilBill> which means I don't think it'll run KVM.
[18:24] <marcoceppi> I'd like to get a public openstack cloud open for charm testing and development against, but I feel that might be something for next year
[18:30] <SpamapS> EvilBill: 'kvm-ok' will tell you that
[18:31] <SpamapS> EvilBill: you *could*, in theory, have it provision an LXC container, but you'd have to figure out how to run the "late_command" bit to get juju to start its agents.
[18:31] <SpamapS> EvilBill: it might also be possible to simply have the cobbler machine register *itself* as a cobbler system, and then do the same thing.
[18:32] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: we've talked about having an openstack cloud which we make available to ubuntu members who want to work on bugs/testing
[18:32] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: I think it's a cool idea
[18:33] <marcoceppi> Limit it to charm-contributors even
[18:33] <marcoceppi> ?
[18:35] <koolhead17> EvilBill: i think there is a wiki which spells charm magic 4 openstack deployment allready!! :D
[18:35] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I'd like to see it open to even those who are not interested in juju.
[18:36] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: so would this just be a free cloud for anyone to play in?
[18:36] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I think we'd require ubuntu membership and have a limited number of seats available
[18:36] <marcoceppi> I see
[18:38] <adam_g> http://wiki.openstack.org/FreeCloud
[18:38] <adam_g> ^^ not sure what the status of that is ATM, tho
[18:47] <koolhead17> SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~koolhead17/charm/oneiric/boa/trunk
[18:47] <koolhead17> hope you will not laugh, as it has notthing magical
[18:47] <koolhead17> made it to understand juju better :)
[18:49] <SpamapS> adam_g: *nice* I didn't know it had even been written down like that. :)
[18:57] <SpamapS> koolhead17: thats fine. It should work.. its not clear at all to me why its not working. :-/
[18:58] <koolhead17> SpamapS: hehe. i would love to see if someone tests it on AWS
[18:58] <koolhead17> i have no idea why i was getting the error i mentioned earlier on LXC
[18:59] <koolhead17> i created a directory name example/oneiric/boa*
[18:59] <koolhead17> and repository = /home/atul/example
[18:59] <koolhead17> :P
[19:00] <koolhead17> i moved mysql charm from the examples directory to that path it worked but not the boa one
[19:05] <SpamapS> koolhead17: ls -l /home/atul/example/oneiric
[19:06] <koolhead17> it will have boa and mysql directory )
[19:06] <koolhead17> SpamapS: am home now siir!!
[19:07] <SpamapS> koolhead17: so.. um, you can't test at home, but you can't push to bzr at work? :-/
[19:07] <SpamapS> koolhead17: you should be using the local provider at home
[19:08] <koolhead17> SpamapS: i tried juju formula writing on LXC at work, synced it to my home computer and then pushed it to bzr once i came home
[19:09] <koolhead17> i will install Oneiric tomorrow
[19:09] <koolhead17> its been in list for ages, :D
[19:09]  * koolhead17 is addicted to LTS
[19:24] <SpamapS> koolhead17: yeah, LXC isn't quite usable in 10.04 unfortunately
[19:24] <koolhead17> SpamapS: honestly am waiting 4 precious b4 i can format my poor lappy, that is why i do all charming stuff in office :P
[19:25] <koolhead17> 2 GB baby
[19:27] <mpl> niemeyer: I think I've got something going for zk + ssh. but it's still very messy so I'm gonna clean it up before showing it to you guys.
[19:27] <niemeyer> mpl: Ohh, sweet
[19:28] <mpl> gonna go home, dinner, and rest a bit first though. ttyl
[20:25] <marcoceppi> I can't find config-changed anywhere in the hooks documentation
[20:29] <hazmat> marcoceppi, yeah.. that's a problem.. its in a separate document on service config
[20:30] <hazmat> i just started to pull the docs into a separate branch to hopefully facilitate making them easier to contribute to.. there at the bzr branch lp:juju/docs
[20:31] <marcoceppi> Ah, cool - thanks for the heads up hazmat
[20:31] <hazmat> marcoceppi, re the config-hook docs atm https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/drafts/service-config.html#creating-charms
[20:39] <marcoceppi> After a charm is reviewed and deemed needs more work, should I just remove the new-charm tag?
[20:44] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r431 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:44] <_mup_> Refactored
[20:46] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r432 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:46] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[20:47] <nijaba> marcoceppi: just put the bug bag to state incomplete
[20:49] <nijaba> marcoceppi: once the problem are addressed, the requester will put it back to state "fix-comited"
[20:53]  * nijaba takes off. Have fun
[20:54] <EvilBill> SpamapS: Coming back after a lengthy meeting… you could get cobbler to register itself? Hm, that's an idea, but I wouldn't want it to try to PXE boot itself...
[21:07] <koolhead17> bye nijaba
[21:40] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r433 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:40] <_mup_> Simplify by keeping public keys in ProviderMachine itself
[21:41] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r434 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:41] <_mup_> Refactored bootstrap
[22:12] <_mup_> juju/ssh-known_hosts r435 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:12] <_mup_> Fix error handling for refactored bootstrap
[23:26] <_mup_> Bug #902384 was filed: Service units get stuck in debug mode. <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902384 >
[23:43] <SpamapS> EvilBill: no you wouldn't pxeboot it .. you'd just run the final "late command" that juju sticks into the pre-seed


[12:38] <xubu> how can i get a list of my usb devices and thier uris
[12:43] <vidd> lsusb
[12:54] <axelm7> hello, I am installing xubuntu 7.0.4 right now. I have checked that the CD media is ok, and after starting the installation, it says /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off. Then it takes me to a busybox prompt and does not continue.
[12:54] <axelm7> what should I try next? install in safe text mode?
[12:55] <axelm7> on the bottom of the screen it says (initramfs) and I get a prompt there
[01:03] <axelm7> now I get a kernel panic :(
[01:10] <axelm7> my installation has aborted
[01:11] <axelm7> it says "checking file systems" [FAILED]
[01:11] <axelm7> __tzfile_read: Assertion 'num_types == 1' failed
[01:12] <axelm7> an then the installer goes into maintenance mode and i get a bash prompt
[01:12] <axelm7> wtf is wrong?
[01:12] <axelm7> do i have to start with noacpi nousb or something like that?
[01:13] <vidd> try acpi=off
[01:13] <axelm7> where should I put that? on the grub command line?
[01:14] <vidd> didi the install complete? or is this while trying to install?
[01:14] <axelm7> while it was trying to start in safe graphics mode
[01:15] <axelm7> i did not reach the part where it gives me the option to install
[01:16] <vidd> then restart the installer....hit [esc[ then type  live acpi=off if using the live
[01:16] <axelm7> now I am starting again, but I pressed F6 and added acpi=off to the boot options
[01:17] <axelm7> it is trying to read from the floppy drive all the time
[01:17] <vidd> live cd?
[01:17] <axelm7> crap, failed again, busybox prompt
[01:17] <axelm7> livecd
[01:18] <axelm7> i am downloading alternate cd just in case
[01:18] <vidd> how much ram?
[01:18] <axelm7> 128
[01:18] <axelm7> i'll try the escape key
[01:19] <vidd> im not sure you can run the live cd with that little ram
[01:19] <axelm7> ok, now it is booting in text mode
[01:19] <silvertip257> is there a channel I should join to talk to any devs ?
[01:20] <vidd> #xubuntu-devel
[01:20] <silvertip257> ok thanks
[01:20] <axelm7> damn, graphics mode again, how do I get it to boot in text mode ONLY
[01:21] <vidd> you DONT
[01:21] <vidd> its a live cd...not the altcd
[01:21] <silvertip257> ;)
[01:22] <axelm7> aborted again. any other boot command I should try? live acpi=off...
[01:22] <silvertip257> vidd:  are you a dev?
[01:22] <vidd> no...throw that live cd in the trash
[01:22] <vidd> silvertip257, no
[01:22] <vidd> you need the alt
[01:22] <silvertip257> vidd:  ok ... seems like no one is there
[01:22] <axelm7> I'll keep it just in case ;)
[01:23] <axelm7> but i will burn the alt cd and try again
[01:23] <silvertip257> axelm7:  burn it at a slow speed -- as slow as 4x if you can!!!
[01:23] <silvertip257> ?
[01:23] <vidd> *iso
[01:23] <silvertip257> oh
[01:23] <silvertip257> what's that?
[01:24] <vidd> gets everything off the internet
[01:24] <silvertip257> oh netinstall ?
[01:24] <vidd> the image is <10  meg
[01:24] <silvertip257> xubuntu has one ?
[01:24] <silvertip257> do the rest ?
[01:25] <silvertip257> vidd ^^
[01:25] <vidd> it is agnostic...will install xubuntu, ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, LAMP, DNS, and minimal
[01:25] <silvertip257> where did ya get it?
[01:26] <vidd> you can dig it up in the archives...or just get it from my downloads page http://www.vidd.us/downloads
[01:27] <silvertip257> who made it? ;)
[01:27] <vidd> ubunti did
[01:27] <silvertip257> did you mean to put an "i" there?
[01:27] <vidd> no
[01:27] <silvertip257> k
[01:28] <axelm7> silvertip, the media is fine, it is passing the media check
[01:28] <silvertip257> ok good axel
[01:28] <silvertip257> vidd:  in the archives?
[01:29] <silvertip257> how come they dont make it obvious to people?  I have never found it or heard of it
[01:29] <vidd> yeah... archives.ubuntu.com
[01:29] <vidd> who knows? i think it is the best thing ever
[01:29] <silvertip257> yes I agree
[01:30] <vidd> i even dug up the gutsy version
[01:30] <silvertip257> vidd: idk where to look
[01:31] <silvertip257> no "s" by the way
[01:33] <vidd> did you look @ my page?
[01:34] <silvertip257> but I wanna know where it <originally> came from ;P
[01:35] <axelm7> crap, I hate old obsolete hardware. The RAM on this machine is probably bad, or the IDE controller or the IDE cable. I am getting all sorts of weird errors
[01:35] <vidd> silvertip257, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[01:36] <silvertip257> thank you very much - interesting
[01:37] <silvertip257> ah nice I'm going to book mark that - neato, too bad it doesn't seem more obvious from the ubuntu page
[01:38] <vidd> and gutsy.....http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[01:40] <silvertip257> yep similar dir path
[01:41] <vidd> i will be periodically updating the image on my page as updates are made
[01:41] <silvertip257> cool
[01:42] <vidd> with the mini, the kernel version on the disk must match what is in the repo's...otherwise it wont install
[01:48] <axelm7> found the problem :) the cd reader was bad. I put another CD reader and it is booting now :)
[01:51] <axelm7> it takes FOREVER to boot on this machine from the livecd
[01:51] <vidd> that is because it has to load the entire os in ram
[01:51] <axelm7> lol, it is such a lame pc, i am doing this only because it's my father in law's pc. I would have torched this pc otherwise
[01:52] <axelm7> a nice bucket of kerosene and a match
[01:52] <vidd> it would be a decent server
[01:52] <axelm7> just to make sure nobody else is tortured with this garbage
[01:53] <axelm7> i use a p2 333 384mb 80gb as a server here at home
[01:53] <axelm7> a p1 is just too old
[01:53] <vidd> all depends on what your using it for
[01:54] <vidd> i can make an 80-386 into a halfway decent printer server!
[01:54] <axelm7> openbsd on this machine would work fine as a router
[01:54] <silvertip257> you've got a P1 still ?
[01:54] <silvertip257> me 2
[01:54] <axelm7> a garbage hand me down pc
[01:54] <silvertip257> a couple if the 2nd one still works ;)
[01:54] <silvertip257> same here
[01:55] <silvertip257> only thing I could run on it was DSL / puppy
[01:55] <axelm7> i also have a p2 333, an athlon xp 2.5 and a inspiron 1200 laptop with 1.25 GB RAM
[01:55] <silvertip257> nice
[01:55] <silvertip257> I wanna build one soon - a desktop
[01:56] <axelm7> I haven't bought dual core yet for home. I have one at the office and I don't notice that much difference for what I do
[01:56] <silvertip257> is it your own business ?
[01:56] <axelm7> i am a partner there
[01:56] <silvertip257> ah
[01:57] <vidd> what kind of business?
[01:57] <axelm7> fuel retail automation software+hardware+consulting
[01:57] <silvertip257> I'm trying to learn how to make custom live cds ... anyone wanna help ;) ... (w/o UCK / Reconstructor)
[01:57] <axelm7> basically controlling fuel at a service station
[01:58] <axelm7> point of sale, payment, credit card transactions, etc
[01:58] <silvertip257> using what kinda software?
[01:58] <axelm7> the customer is using VeriFone Sapphire software
[01:59] <axelm7> plus some stuff written by me
[01:59] <axelm7> c++ on embedded SOC
[02:00] <silvertip257> ah
[02:01] <axelm7> silvertip, what do u d
[02:01] <axelm7> o
[02:02] <silvertip257> lol I'm still a student
[02:02] <silvertip257> but I'm working for a credit union doing helpdesk / pcsupport
[02:03] <axelm7> can u believe the live cd is still booting
[02:03] <axelm7> it's been 45 mins
[02:03] <silvertip257> can anyone direct me 2 someone who knows how to make custom live cds?
[02:03] <vidd> dont surprise me at all
[02:04] <silvertip257> on a P1 you deserve it!  try dsl or puppy maybe ;)
[02:04] <axelm7> i hope that once i install it on the hd it boots faster
[02:04] <vidd> axelm7, i WOULD  be surprised if the live cd completed booting
[02:04] <silvertip257> not by much man
[02:04] <silvertip257> from my personal experience
[02:04] <axelm7> the user does not speak english, dsl is not an option
[02:05] <axelm7> and he is not computer savy, so forget dsl
[02:05] <silvertip257> it's a big pain on my p1 w/ decent amnt of ram for the time period
[02:05] <silvertip257> ok
[02:05] <silvertip257> dsl isn't that bad ;)
[02:05] <silvertip257> but you've got a pt
[02:05] <axelm7> this pc was booting xp sp2 in under 5 mins
[02:05] <vidd> im telling you....the alt cd is the way to go with that pc
[02:06] <axelm7> firefox2 and ie7 were working pretty well, so was windows live messenger
[02:06] <silvertip257> wow axelm7 ... did you hack it that bad?
[02:06] <silvertip257> are you sure ... P1 ?
[02:06] <axelm7> yup, killed all the useless services
[02:06] <silvertip257> how much ram -- what specs ?
[02:06] <silvertip257> oh
[02:06] <axelm7> 128 MB
[02:06] <silvertip257> same as the one i've got
[02:06] <axelm7> 8 gn hd
[02:07] <axelm7> 8 GB HD
[02:07] <silvertip257> less on the one 've got
[02:07] <silvertip257> vidd:  do you know how to use "tar" correctly?
[02:07] <axelm7> configured the ADSL to act as router so i got rid of the pppoe part
[02:07] <silvertip257> will you check a phrase for me?
[02:07] <vidd> sure
[02:07] <silvertip257> ok
[02:08] <silvertip257> vidd:  " tar -zcvfp /mnt/sda1/debian/deb4.0_netinst-base.tar.gz . " ... something can't be right though
[02:08] <axelm7> vidd, why do you say the alt cd will boot faster? will the installation from altcd be different then if i install from the live cd?
[02:08] <silvertip257> installation will be no different
[02:08] <silvertip257> final OS I mean
[02:09] <vidd> right on the web site: To run the Desktop CD (LiveCD + Install CD), you need 128 MB RAM to run or 192 MB RAM to install
[02:09] <silvertip257> vidd:  my current dir is a partition I mounted w/ my deb OS - /mnt/hda5
[02:09] <vidd> trying to untar?
[02:10] <silvertip257> no create an archive & compress a lil
[02:10] <silvertip257> am I using the wrong parameter ... z ? ... I forget ugh
[02:10] <vidd> did you man tar ?
[02:11] <silvertip257> yes
[02:11] <silvertip257> but looked & nothign
[02:11] <vidd> axelm7, you dont have enough ram to  run the live cd
[02:11] <silvertip257> vidd:  it says my path-to-tarfile doesn't exist ...
[02:12] <axelm7> vidd, I am waiting for the alt cd to finish downloading. Meanwhile I will let the live CD to continue booting
[02:12] <axelm7> bye guys, I am going to have dinner (Spanish seafood)
[02:12] <vidd> silvertip257, did you use tab-completion to get the path to file?
[02:12] <axelm7> thanks
[02:12] <silvertip257> yes vidd ... i love that !
[02:15] <silvertip257> vidd:  umm ... tell me if I understand it correctly
[02:15] <vidd> one minute
[02:16] <silvertip257> ok
[02:18] <vidd> tar -cvvf NameForFile.tar /path/to/file (or replace /file with /directory/)
[02:21] <vidd> silvertip257, that work for ya?
[02:21] <silvertip257> no - well that's what I'm doing
[02:22] <silvertip257> tar-file /dir/to/be/backedup
[02:23] <vidd> tar -options fileName /dir/to/be/backedUp/
[02:25] <silvertip257> yes
[02:25] <vidd> you need the "/" at the end if it is a directory you are trying to zip
[02:26] <vidd> if it is a file, then no "/" at the end
[02:26] <silvertip257> ok
[02:26] <silvertip257> but if I make a dir my current one then I use a period right?
[02:26] <vidd> no
[02:27] <silvertip257> what?!
[02:27] <silvertip257> hmm - can't remember how I did it in my big script a few months ago
[02:28] <vidd> lets say you want to compress /home/vidd/directory/
[02:28] <silvertip257> ok
[02:28] <vidd> you can  cd to /home/vidd.....
[02:29] <vidd> then tar -cvvf directory.tar directory/
[02:30] <vidd> or... tar -cvvf directory.tar /home/vidd/directory/
[02:30] <silvertip257> oh hmm
[02:30] <silvertip257> I read somewhere you always have a "." at the end for some reason
[02:30] <vidd> for a script...yeah
[02:31] <silvertip257> hmm
[02:31] <silvertip257> ok
[02:31] <silvertip257> dur that's why maybe
[02:31] <vidd> but that is dependent on the scripting language
[02:31] <silvertip257> lemme try some small dir
[02:35] <vidd> survey says?
[02:36] <silvertip257> vidd:  why does it say - Cannot stat:  No such file or directory ?
[02:36] <silvertip257> it's referring to my tar file I wanna create
[02:37] <vidd> paste the command you typed
[02:37] <silvertip257> ok
[02:37] <silvertip257> tar -zcvfp /mnt/sda1/debian/test.tar.gz /mnt/hda5/bin/
[02:38] <silvertip257> it's the "/mnt/sda1/debian/test.tar.gz" that is getting the msg
[02:39] <vidd> tar cannot make a .tar.gz file
[02:39] <silvertip257> vidd how come?
[02:40] <silvertip257> vidd:  here's my ref for this stuff - just found my bookmark:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem/TAR
[02:40] <vidd> the .gz comes from running gzip on the tar file
[02:40] <silvertip257> yes
[02:41] <vidd> you might want to cd to /mnt/sda1/debian
[02:42] <vidd> then run sudo tar -cvvf test.tar /mnt/hda5/bin
[02:42] <silvertip257> ok
[02:42] <vidd> you need sudo because there are root owned files in /bin
[02:42] <vidd> then run sudo tar -cvvf test.tar /mnt/hda5/bin/
[02:43] <vidd> dont forget the / at the end!
[02:43] <silvertip257> nothing in that dir now ..
[02:43] <silvertip257> wasn't before either
[02:43] <vidd> nothing in the /bin/ dir?
[02:43] <silvertip257> no
[02:43] <silvertip257> nothing in the /mnt/sda1/debian (backup dir)
[02:43] <vidd> no WONDER you are having issues!
[02:44] <vidd> oh
[02:44] <silvertip257> huh?
[02:44] <vidd> does the directory exist?
[02:44] <silvertip257> yes
[02:44] <silvertip257> i have my ext drive mounted & that dir is on it
[02:44] <vidd> ok...cd to the dir where you want the tar to end up...
[02:44] <silvertip257> ok i'm there
[02:45] <vidd> run sudo tar -cvvf test.tar /mnt/hda5/bin/
[02:45] <silvertip257> yup that' swhat i'm doing ... i will try once mroe
[02:45] <silvertip257> *more
[02:45] <silvertip257> why cvvf ?
[02:45] <silvertip257> instead of -zcvfp ?
[02:45] <vidd> those are the options i always use, and it never fails
[02:46] <silvertip257> oh
[02:46] <vidd> i dont know what -z and -p are for
[02:46] <vidd> but i know you need 2 v's
[02:46] <silvertip257> cannot stat the test file
[02:46] <silvertip257> test.tar.gz
[02:47] <silvertip257> vidd:  z is for gzip compression and p is to preserve permissions
[02:47] <vidd> are you still putting .gz at the end?
[02:47] <silvertip257> yes
[02:47] <vidd> the -z is for UNtar'ing
[02:47] <silvertip257> ooops
[02:47] <silvertip257> no X is
[02:48] <vidd> lose the -z
[02:48] <silvertip257> but maybe since it's giving me that error ...
[02:48] <vidd> and the .gz
[02:48] <silvertip257> z - compress the backup file with 'gzip' to make it smaller
[02:49] <vidd> better to just run gzip on if after it actually works
[02:49] <silvertip257> will try w/o it
[02:49] <silvertip257> no luck
[02:49] <vidd> are you including the sudo?
[02:50] <silvertip257> I'm root
[02:50] <silvertip257> !
[02:50] <silvertip257> well I sudo-ed
[02:50] <vidd> do you have write permissions on the drive you are righting to?
[02:51] <silvertip257> how do I check that?
[02:51] <silvertip257> I'm root though ..
[02:52] <vidd> but if  /mnt/sda1/debian/ is read only...it dont matter WHO you are...GOD cant write on a read-only file system
[02:52] <silvertip257> ughh
[02:52] <silvertip257> ok how do I check that? / change it?
[02:53] <vidd> open it in thunar (or your file manager of choice) and check it's permissions
[02:53] <silvertip257> ok
[02:54] <vidd> if it is mounted in RO, you need to UMOUNT it and re mount it in RW mode
[02:55] <silvertip257> ok eerrrr RO
[02:55] <silvertip257> f-ck d-mmit
[02:56] <vidd> so it's read only?
[02:56] <silvertip257> vidd:  thank you for being so patient and not yet killing me for that
[02:57] <silvertip257> will now try it
[02:57] <vidd> so maybe your options will work!
[02:57] <vidd> its just different from my method
[02:58] <silvertip257> i hope so ... >:O
[02:58] <silvertip257> well the light on my ext-drive is flashing, so it must be writing
[02:59] <vidd> that is promising
[03:00] <silvertip257> but it did it the last time on one of the methods..
[03:00] <vidd> yeah...but it didnt fail yet
[03:01] <vidd> THAT is what is promising!
[03:01] <silvertip257> right
[03:19] <vidd> silvertip257, did it take?
[03:19] <silvertip257> still working
[03:19] <silvertip257> ;)
[03:19] <silvertip257> but no error
[03:20] <vidd> then with that...good night
[03:29] <silvertip257> looks like yes vidd
[03:29] <silvertip257> lemme run the -t param on it
[03:29] <silvertip257> let's look it up first ;)
[03:39] <silvertip257> vidd:  do you inventory your tar files with -t at all ?
[03:42] <silvertip257> nvm ... i'm out later
[03:53] <rand> is there a boot floppy image for machines that can't boot a CD ?
[04:02] <elite101> hey im going to install xubuntu 7.10 anything i should be concerned about?
[10:54] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: you're here?
[10:58] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: no
[10:58] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: I'm here
[10:58] <hyper_ch> you're the rTorrent pro right?
[10:58] <TheSheep> no
[10:58] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: I thought you're using it
[10:59] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: well yes, from time to time
[10:59] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: but I don't play with it
[10:59] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: oh ok... I just had a small look at it and a few questions still remain unanswered :) I thought you may help
[11:00] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: if not me, then maybe someone else
[11:00] <TheSheep> !ask | hyper_ch
[11:00] <ubotu> hyper_ch: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[11:00] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: :) anyway, I just added for testing reasons a torrent that I share...
[11:00] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: I didn't start downloading but then exited rTorrent... restarted it... but it was not listed anymore... why so?
[11:01] <hyper_ch> question2:  is there a way to select only certain files from the torrent to download and not all of them?
[11:01] <hyper_ch> question3: can you create new torrents with rtorrent - if so, how?
[11:02] <hyper_ch> question4: is there a way to say where the files should be saved to? Like not all into the same directory?
[11:03] <Gabz> is there a smaller browsers than firefox... it loads too slow for xubuntu ?
[11:04] <hyper_ch> Gabz: epiphany
[11:04] <hyper_ch> kazehakase
[11:04] <hyper_ch> lynx (command line)
[11:05] <Gabz> lynx hmm something with a gui still would be nice
[11:05] <hyper_ch> the other two are gui
[11:05] <TheSheep> Gabz: opra, dillo
[11:05] <TheSheep> Gabz: opera I mean
[11:06] <hyper_ch> Gabz: open synaptic and search for "browser" and you will be presented quite a few
[11:06] <hyper_ch> maybe even swiftfox?
[11:06] <Gabz> yeah but since i was after something small i figured i would ask to so i have a better starting point
[11:07] <Gabz> i'll have to install acouple and see which loads fastests
[11:07] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: I don't know the answers, I know you can download single files with rtorrent for sure, but never tried, I think you can change the place where the file is going to be saved, but don't know how either. You can configure the default saving directory in the config file.
[11:08] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: yeah, saw that about the default saving directory :) btw, where are the .torrent files being stored?
[11:08] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: oh... stupid question... I was jus thinking of ktorrent again ;)
[11:09] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: I'm sure their website has some docs
[11:09] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: I'll have a look at it :)
[11:10] <hyper_ch> so, I need to put now stuff into boxes :(
[11:10] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: moving, eh?
[11:11] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: yeah
[11:11] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: moving sux... but the new appartment is great ;)
[11:12] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: gotta run for the bus, see you tomorrow
[11:12] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: good luck with moving
[11:13] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: thx and cya
[11:38] <axelm7> hi, I have just finished installing xubuntu 7.04. What is the best graphical package manager? I am not used to Debian style distributions, since I am a Fedora user.
[11:41] <Evergete> axelm7, synaptic, imho
[11:41] <hyper_ch> axelm7: synaptic it is... but the command line is very simple to and allows you to write auto-downlaod and install script
[11:42] <hyper_ch> axelm7: that makes a reinstall quite quick ;)
[11:44] <axelm7> this pc is for my father in law, updates have to be automatic and package installs have to be graphical
[11:45] <Evergete> the easiest way (for dummies, i think) is to go to system > add remove, is more semplified than synaptic
[11:46] <axelm7> I have to say that on this old pc with 128 MB RAM, xp sp2 runs faster than xubuntu. I have not disactivated the unnecessary services yet, maybe that's my prob
[11:56] <axelm7> I activated compositing just to see what would happen and now the system locks up when it boots. Numlock is not working, ctrl alt backspace is not working. Is there a safe mode?
[12:59] <axelm7> ok, after about an hour of using xubuntu 7.04 on a very low end machine, I have to say that xp sp2 runs much faster on this hardware
[01:01] <axelm7> I can see firefox-bin using 45% cpu and xfce-taskmanager using 16-24%. These are constant values
[01:04] <hyper_ch> axelm7: just install a few things on xp and it will crawl
[01:07] <axelm7> I am not defending xp at all, I am just giving my feedback
[01:07] <axelm7> this same machine was running xp with ie7 and firefox. www surfing was reasonable. on xubuntu it is not
[01:08] <axelm7> I don't know if adobe flash plugin is eating way too much cpu
[01:09] <axelm7> xfce-taskmanager is always at 20-50% cpu. what is this process? a message dispatcher in xfce?
[01:09] <hyper_ch> axelm7: I'm just saying if you install the same amount of stuff that you get with xubuntu then xp is slower ;)
[01:09] <axelm7> maybe I can reduce the amount of eye candy (?) to make screen rendering faster
[01:10] <hyper_ch> axelm7: man xfce-taskmanager
[01:11] <axelm7> lol, xfce-taskmanager is the task that is showing me how much cpu each process is consuming.
[01:12] <OculusAquilae> hi
[01:12] <hyper_ch> axelm7: I would use  "top" or "htop"
[01:13] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: hiho, did it work with the theme/style?
[01:13] <hyper_ch> g'day Jesta
[01:13] <axelm7> X is eating up to 50% CPU. I guess that copying bytes for the frame buffer is slow
[01:13] <Jesta> hey
[01:14] <hyper_ch> Jesta: Adelaide?
[01:14] <Jesta> melbourne
[01:14] <hyper_ch> Jesta: iieeeks
[01:14] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: now I know what you wanted to describe :)
[01:14] <hyper_ch> Victorians... ;)
[01:14] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: but it is a different error
[01:14] <Jesta> :P
[01:15] <hyper_ch> Jesta: who won footy this year?
[01:15] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: file:///media/disk/error_ooo.png -- I meant the windeco, not the style
[01:15] <OculusAquilae> sorry
[01:15] <hyper_ch> Jesta: unfortunately I can't receive any here ;(
[01:15] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: file:///media/disk/error_ooo.png
[01:15] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: http://oculusaquilae.de/xubuntu/error_ooo.png -- damn copy and paste
[01:15] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: well, hmm.... no clue then... when you said missing icons this happened to me once because I lacked an installed style
[01:15] <Jesta> hyper_ch: afl?
[01:16] <hyper_ch> Jesta: yeah
[01:16] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: thanks anyway
[01:16] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: just open a document
[01:16] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: then the stuff appears
[01:16] <Jesta> hyper_ch: not finished yet, but looks like geelong will finish on top and possibly go all the way
[01:17] <hyper_ch> Jesta: thx :)  /me misses Vegemite
[01:17] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: look at the decoration, I is the same with any opened document
[01:17] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: what do you mean by decoration?
[01:17] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: the bar on top of the window
[01:18] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: what about them?
[01:18] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: and the frame around it
[01:18] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: ah... hmmm... no clue
[01:18] <OculusAquilae> i don't have this error in abiword, but this can't print in landscape mode
[01:18] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: I thought you had a OOo problem
[01:19] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: it is only with OOo, not with gimp, firefox, abiword or any other program
[01:20] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: strange... you're on Gutsy?
[01:20] <OculusAquilae> no, it's feisty
[01:20] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: strange... maybe remove OOo completely with a purge and reinstallit
[01:22] <OculusAquilae> hyper_ch: hm, it was from the beginning of my installation and I think  the problem is the window manager, but I will try this next time
[01:22] <hyper_ch> OculusAquilae: no clue :(
[01:23] <OculusAquilae> maybe I'll replace both with koffice
[01:23] <hyper_ch> OOo is great
[01:24] <OculusAquilae> but slow on this machine, 466 MHz Celeron and 128MB RAM
[01:26] <OculusAquilae> Another problem: Some translations are missing.  I configure my services myself
[01:37] <hyper_ch> Jesta: ah :) but then... I still wonder how one can watch cricket... even worse if there's test runs...
[01:37] <axelm7> hyper_ch: oh... I see
[01:38] <Jesta> hyper_ch: we put ourselves through the pain for the good of the country ;-)
[01:38] <hyper_ch> axelm7: but making a cron is simple
[01:38] <hyper_ch> Jesta: lol ;) vegemite, real bbqs and footy is what I miss terribly here
[01:39] <hyper_ch> Jesta: and of course some australian cuties ;)
[01:39] <Jesta> hyper_ch: I feel your pain.....;-)
[01:40] <hyper_ch> Jesta: how comes victorians have that snobby accent? ;)
[01:41] <Jesta> hyper_ch: to make ourselves seem better then the /shudder sydneysiders :P
[01:42] <hyper_ch> Jesta: ;)
[01:42] <hyper_ch> Jesta: that's a good response
[01:42] <Jesta> hyper_ch: you wouldn't have got something half as good out of someone from any other city :P
[01:43] <Jesta> hyper_ch: specially hobart
[01:43] <hyper_ch> Jesta: damn, I miss Australia ;(
[01:44] <Jesta> hyper_ch: who doesn't - even people who haven't been here I reckon :P
[01:44] <Jesta> hyper_ch: /national pride
[01:45] <hyper_ch> no pasties at lunch here
[01:45] <Jesta> I thinking of building a file server, would xubuntu be good for this type of thing?
[01:45] <Jesta> I'm*
[01:46] <hyper_ch> I tend to go for a server still to use debian
[01:46] <hyper_ch> and no gui
[01:47] <Jesta> I was only thinking xubuntu because of the linux fileserver article I read on bit-tech.net
[01:47] <Jesta> in which they used xubuntu
[01:47] <hyper_ch> Jesta: well, first of all, if you want to operate a server you don't need a gui
[01:47] <hyper_ch> Jesta: a gui is a waste of resources ;)
[01:48] <hyper_ch> Jesta: and then, debian and ubuntu are quite similar... ubuntu is an offspring from debian and debian is known to provide rock-stable software
[01:48] <hyper_ch> Jesta: hence my preference for debian over ubuntu as server
[01:49] <hyper_ch> Jesta: but then, you say you want a "fileserver"... what do you want it do to exactely?
[01:50] <Jesta> hyper_ch: It would be headless, so I would remote admin it - but basiclly, it would have a partition for each user would would backup/save their stuff to it. It would then have partitions that everyone can access eg Music, Setup Files, Movies etc. The users would all be using windows
[01:50] <Jesta> for each user *who
[01:50] <hyper_ch> Jesta: sounds like a job for samba
[01:51] <Jesta> hyper_ch: thats what I was thinking
[01:51] <hyper_ch> Jesta: and you don't need a gui for it... so xubuntu has no server edition... only ubuntu does... can you point out that article for me?
[01:52] <Jesta> hyper_ch: part one http://www.bit-tech.net/bits/2007/06/05/build_your_own_server/1
[01:52] <Jesta> hyper_ch: part two http://www.bit-tech.net/bits/2007/07/24/build_your_own_better_server/2
[01:54] <hyper_ch> Jesta: you don't need xubuntu
[01:55] <hyper_ch> I'd use the debian install or ubuntu server install
[01:55] <hyper_ch> Jesta: I'm out for a little while but then I'm back
[01:55] <Jesta> hyper_ch: ok
[02:40] <axelm7> hi, what package do I need if I want to play mp3 files?
[02:40] <axelm7> this is a fresh install of xubuntu 7.04
[02:54] <hyper_ch> Jesta: still here?
[02:55] <hyper_ch> !restricted | axelm7
[02:55] <ubotu> axelm7: For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[03:16] <Jesta> hyper_ch: sorry, wasn't watching :P
[03:17] <hyper_ch> so, decided on whether you want to do a gui install or server install?
[03:17] <Jesta> probably go with ubuntu server
[03:17] <Jesta> just gotta read up on it now ;)
[03:19] <hyper_ch> Jesta: it's not a big difference... but still I'd go for debian... so did you already download a ubuntu server cd?
[03:19] <hyper_ch> Jesta: and by the way, you want the whole computer to dedicate as file server right? And if so, how many harddisks do you have in there?
[03:19] <Jesta> not yet, dosen't matter anyway because my ISP mirrors almost every big distro
[03:20] <Jesta> at the moment I only have one, but should be picking up a few more soon
[03:21] <hyper_ch> Jesta: how big is the current one?
[03:21] <hyper_ch> and you do have two different computers, right? the one that will be the file server and anoter one?
[03:22] <Jesta> just an 80gb drive at the moment, its an old computer so will need to get more - and 5 computers will acess it
[03:22] <hyper_ch> Jesta: how much ram?
[03:23] <Jesta> 384
[03:23] <Jesta> i think
[03:24] <Jesta> its something weird like that
[03:24] <hyper_ch> Jesta: could be... then I would suggest the following partitioning
[03:24] <hyper_ch> 1 GB swap partition
[03:24] <evge> Is there any way to use keyboard shortcut to switch keyboard layout ?
[03:24] <hyper_ch> 4 GB root partition ("/") Ext3
[03:25] <hyper_ch> rest home partition ("/home") Ext3
[03:25] <hyper_ch> evge: hmmm, sure you could setup that somehow.... worst case would be to make a shortcut that runs a shell script
[03:25] <Jesta> alright, thanks for your help, I'll try debian as well :D
[03:26] <Jesta> I'm off to bed now, later everyone
[03:26] <hyper_ch> Jesta: well, ubuntu server is fine... just debian has been proven to be rock-stable as a server
[03:26] <hyper_ch> Jesta: when you install the server, just don't select anything additional... make it as minmal as possible
[03:26] <hyper_ch> oh well
[03:46] <axelm7> question, is there a dyndns package in the ubuntu distro?
[03:53] <hyper_ch> axelm7: apt-cache search dyndns
[03:54] <boarder-winterma> hello i have a maybe simple probblem but i am too stupid to solve it :/ i exited my xfce-4 tray and want it back hwo to do this?
[04:04] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: what did you exit exactely?
[04:04] <axelm7> apparently what makes this pc so slow is font anti aliasing and hinting, but if I disable it the fonts are horrible
[04:05] <boarder-winterma> i think i exited the program in the top right corner in the taskbar
[04:05] <boarder-winterma> or i think so ...
[04:05] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: hmmm, you ahve any unsaved work still open?
[04:05] <boarder-winterma> no
[04:06] <boarder-winterma> but i already restarted and the error keeps
[04:06] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: oh... so   ctrl-alt-backspace doesn't help ;(
[04:06] <boarder-winterma> no
[04:06] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: can you make a screen shot and put it online? I have no clue what exactely you have closed
[04:06] <boarder-winterma> unfortunately
[04:08] <boarder-winterma> if i push x in amarok the amaroksymbol should gi in tray ... yesterday it was then in taskbar where i could push on it and amarok rearrived but today if i minimize amarok the symbol is not there...
[04:10] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: hmmm, you could try to create a new user, login as that one... and then copy his xfce config files to your current user
[04:10] <boarder-winterma> oO
[04:10] <boarder-winterma> how to do this?
[04:10] <hyper_ch> you still have the applications menu?
[04:12] <boarder-winterma> yes
[04:12] <boarder-winterma> only the tray is missing
[04:12] <boarder-winterma> little icon
[04:12] <boarder-winterma> right top corner
[04:12] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: I dunno what you mean with tray
[04:12] <hyper_ch> boarder-winterma: ah, the system tray
[04:13] <boarder-winterma> yeah
[04:13] <hyper_ch> right-click on the bar
[04:13] <hyper_ch> select "add new item"
[04:13] <hyper_ch> and then select system tray
[04:13] <boarder-winterma> ugh i need the german word for system tay :/
[04:15] <hyper_ch> das weisse, schwarz umrandete "i"
[04:16] <boarder-winterma> aha i got it :)
[04:16] <boarder-winterma> thank you
[04:16] <boarder-winterma> it is back :)
[04:16] <boarder-winterma> now i have to put it in the top right corner ;)
[04:16] <hyper_ch> right-click it and select "move"
[04:17] <boarder-winterma> thanks it workd
[04:17] <boarder-winterma> it is back :)
[04:50] <silvertip257> anyone awake?
[04:51] <zials> o.o
[04:51] <silvertip257> heh
[04:51] <silvertip257> when I run my tar command it fails because of previous errors (none of which it lists)
[04:52] <silvertip257> wait
[04:52] <silvertip257> it can't stat the tar file I wanna create
[04:59] <vidd> hello silvertip257
[04:59] <vidd> so all that work last night ended in failure?
[05:05] <silvertip257> vidd:  idk ... it seemed to work
[05:05] <silvertip257> but now it's shiaaty again
[05:06] <silvertip257> running off live cds to back it up
[05:08] <vidd> remember to make sure you have write access where you are trying to save the data
[05:09] <vidd> or...save the tar files right on your desktop and then move them to the destination directory using thunar or the mv command
[05:10] <vidd> (or cp to make sure it is successful, then rm the files after confirmation)
[05:19] <silvertip257> well I got it vidd :: I'm a dumba$5
[05:19] <silvertip257> vidd:  the -p option is only for restoring it --- I was confused ..
[05:20] <silvertip257> ty for all your help vidd
[05:20] <silvertip257> later
[06:42] <Ochi> Hello everyone
[06:43] <Ochi> I've got a problem with a xubuntu Feisty installation on a RAID-1. Fsck seems to try to check not only the RAID devices but also individual partitions which are the RAID members. Is anyone else experiencing issues with RAID installations?
[06:46] <Ochi> ...which obviously fails if those partitions are already part of a started RAID. In general I dislike checkfs checking the individual partitions and not the RAID as a whole ^^
[06:55] <DaBeowulf> What's the easiest and most lightweight solution to play XviD decoded avi files in xubuntu?
[06:56] <Ochi> Have you tried VLC?
[07:03] <DaBeowulf> !info VLC
[07:03] <ubotu> vlc: multimedia player and streamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.6.release-0ubuntu4 (feisty), package size 1131 kB, installed size 3192 kB
[07:04] <DaBeowulf> Thanks I'll check that.
[07:31] <neclimdul> i was trying xubuntu as an option for an old 440cdx laptop i had laying around.  when its shows a bunch of Buffer I/O errors and then like 10min later it stops on an odd shell.
[07:31] <neclimdul> anyone have any pointers for getting the installer running?
[07:34] <vidd> neclimdul, live or alt cd?
[07:34] <neclimdul> checking
[07:35] <neclimdul> xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
[07:35] <vidd> so that is the live cd
[07:37] <neclimdul> oh....
[07:38] <megaproxy> herro
[07:38] <neclimdul> vidd: is that going to be a problem post install with xubuntu?
[07:39] <vidd> no
[07:39] <megaproxy> is there a way to install xubuntu over the net, and in windows
[07:39] <megaproxy> i dont have a cd burner...
[07:40] <vidd> megaproxy, not that i know of
[07:40] <megaproxy> damnit
[07:40] <megaproxy> >.<
[07:40] <megaproxy> how about downloading and moutning it in a thing like deamontools
[07:40] <megaproxy> can you install it that way? or do i need to do the full shading and format n shiddy
[07:40] <vidd> but there is a method to install using usb
[07:41] <megaproxy> usb?
[07:41] <megaproxy> my only usb drive is 258 :(
[07:41] <vidd> and?
[07:41] <megaproxy> how big is the instal.?
[07:41] <vidd> i think like 10 meg
[07:41] <megaproxy> :OL
[07:41] <megaproxy> wtf?
[07:41] <megaproxy> 10mb for a OS?
[07:42] <vidd> no...for the net installer
[07:42] <megaproxy> OH
[07:42] <megaproxy> i get ya
[07:42] <megaproxy> so if i dl that
[07:42] <megaproxy> then boot the installer?
[07:42] <megaproxy> it will dl it and install?
[07:42] <vidd> yep
[07:42] <neclimdul> DSL is 50M :P linux gets small.
[07:42] <megaproxy> sweet!
[07:42] <megaproxy> how do i do that then?
[07:42] <vidd> IDK...i just know it is an option
[07:43] <megaproxy> hmm
[07:44] <megaproxy> RAM: Used: 224/256MB
[07:44] <megaproxy> gdgd
[07:48] <BFTD> hallo!
[08:52] <BlackDiamonds> Guys, if I use (K)(X)(U)buntu is it possible for me to have the latest and greatest software ?
[08:53] <BlackDiamonds> like if a new version of AmaroK is released today when would I be able to expect it in the repos ?
[08:56] <BlackDiamonds> ubuntu
[09:44] <foreman> hey
[09:44] <hyper_ch> no
[09:45] <rokra> someone know a packages to modify tcp headers?
[09:45] <hyper_ch> why should one want to do that?
[09:46] <rokra> to check a spoof on my internal network
[09:47] <hyper_ch> rokra: no clue
[09:47] <foreman> i've been trying to install xubuntu on a couple of old g3 imacs, resorted to the alternate install cd, and it's been freezing at 85%
[09:47] <foreman> when it gets to installing the xubuntu desktop
[09:48] <hyper_ch> can ubuntu be installed there?  This is a support channel, not a general guidance channel.   I know how to use XFCE. I know how to use unix.


[19:16] <DK_> hi guys, i have a question regarding 17.10: ive had issues on all tested ubuntu versions with my lenovo trackpad, it felt as if the pointer was moving on a rather coarse grid (maybe 2mm on the screen). is this a known problem and is there a chance for it being resolved in upcoming releases? so far i am using ubuntu budgie 16.04 and really liking it, keep up the good work
[19:54] <DK_> no one around?


[08:01] <lewq[m]> oh hey, found you guys after the "netsplit" that was Canonical's Slack getting disconnected from the Container Solutions slack. (this is Luke Marsden)
[08:01] <lewq[m]> knkski, Rui Vasconcelos greetings
[08:04] <lewq[m]> John Meinel: I tried `juju bootstrap --agent-version=2.9-rc6`, and `-rc5`, and `-rc4`, and they all broke in various ways. I don't think that bootstrapping an old agent with a new client works. Is there really no way to install a previous version of a snap? And any news about that fix for the errors i was seeing in minikube? (screenshots if you scroll up)
[14:44] <ruivasconcelos[7> 👋
[14:47] <ruivasconcelos[7> hey guys!
[14:48] <ruivasconcelos[7> Happy to be connected again to the info :) How are we doing?


[01:14] <jyo> Looks like I'm late: http://sietch-tabr.tumblr.com/post/26700299043/thunderbirds-future-from-the-inside
[01:14] <darthrobot> Title: [Thunderbird's future from the inside | NaN]