[01:53] <dAndy> l
[02:16] <llODxCOll> testes
[03:56] <Xaero_Vincent> Is Ubuntu going to ever have a new search feature like Vista's instant search and MacOS X Spotlight? That would be really cool I think.
[03:56] <Xaero_Vincent> instant file searching as u type...
[03:57] <Xaero_Vincent> i hear the documentation search is going to be drastically faster in Dapper... so Im just wondering
[03:58] <ajmitch> this channel is only used for meetings, sorry
[01:01] <JaneW> hello
[01:01] <JaneW> Edubuntu Meeting goes check-in now
[01:01] <JaneW> s/goes/goers/
[01:02] <spacey> hi
[01:02] <JaneW> hi ogra, kjcole, jelkner, pips1_away, highvoltage, Yagisan, spacey
[01:02] <ogra> hi
[01:02] <JaneW> is flint joining us today?
[01:03] <JaneW> ok let's hit it
[01:03] <JaneW> jelkner: you here for long?
[01:03] <jelkner> 30 minutes
[01:03] <JaneW> can we start with tech, or do we need to start with docs?
[01:04] <jelkner> then students come
[01:04] <ogra> tech update: made flight 5 :) thats all
[01:04] <JaneW> ok docs first
[01:04] <kjcole> hi all
[01:04] <JaneW> ogra: you not getting off that lightly! :P
[01:04] <ogra> my ubuntu tasks are taking all my time currently ...
[01:04] <jelkner> things are moving forward with the cookbook
[01:04] <JaneW> jelkner: \o/
[01:04] <ogra> JaneW, i didnt do more :)
[01:04] <jelkner> and now we have an extra 6 weeks, yes?
[01:04] <JaneW> is the 6 weeks decided yet?
[01:05] <JaneW> I don't think so
[01:05] <ogra> jelkner, we're discussing a 6 week delay, if and only if we would do that, the doc deadline would move
[01:05] <JaneW> but I missed the TB last night
[01:05] <ogra> TB had nothing to decide
[01:05] <jelkner> i thought that was discussed yesterday
[01:05] <JaneW> there hasn;t been a definite call either way yet AFAIK
[01:05] <JaneW> jelkner: it was discussed
[01:05] <ogra> we made the proposal for a new schedule *if* we postpone
[01:05] <JaneW> at length
[01:05] <JaneW> the decision is still pending though
[01:06] <ogra> (we == TB in that case)
[01:06] <jelkner> for edubuntu that would be *great*
[01:06] <ogra> nope
[01:06] <ogra> not really
[01:06] <flint> JaneW, I will find out.
[01:06] <JaneW> it's a fairly strong possibility though
[01:06] <jelkner> yes, really
[01:06] <JaneW> we can not change our goals
[01:06] <ogra> edubuntu is ready and on track for releasing april 20th
[01:06] <jelkner> a june yearly release is what we need
[01:06] <JaneW> no new features will be accepted
[01:06] <ogra> there is nothing i can do anyway ...
[01:06] <jelkner> i understand
[01:06] <jelkner> but the june release date would be better for the future
[01:06] <JaneW> only exceptions for thing that were meant to be in anyway, like espresso and l10n
[01:07] <ogra> the freezes will stay (apart from ui freeze for polish) so there is not much edubuntu gains
[01:07] <JaneW> jelkner: it's a once of change
[01:07] <JaneW> s/of/off
[01:07] <JaneW> it would be back to April next year
[01:07] <ogra> and it will only this one release that will change it
[01:07] <jelkner> why?
[01:07] <ogra> the dapper+1 release will be back on schedule for oct
[01:07] <flint> this will give use time to make "dapper docs" :^)
[01:07] <JaneW> flint: yes it would
[01:07] <ogra> so in fact its very bad, since we wont likely get localdevices in oct either
[01:08] <jelkner> why april?
[01:08] <ogra> (time for dapper+1 is to short for big changes)
[01:08] <jelkner> for edubuntu, a june release is *much* better
[01:08] <JaneW> ok we can't argue whether it should or shouldn't happen - here. The town halls were held, and the TB and CC will weigh in and a decision will be made
[01:08] <ogra> jelkner, yes. but its ontly a one tier
[01:08] <JaneW> we will have to deal with it either way
[01:08] <ogra> and cripples the next release
[01:08] <ogra> *timer
[01:09] <Yagisan> jelkner: edubuntu is married to the ubuntu release. It can't get divorced.
[01:09] <spacey> can we get back to the cookbook stuff? :p
[01:09] <jelkner> i understand
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: unless you have time to start on it pre Dapper release? But I guess not, since you get sucked into ubuntu work?
[01:09] <ogra> from a ubuntu perspective its fine, from an edubuntu perspective i'm very unhappy
[01:09] <jelkner> so i was hoping this june thing would become permanent
[01:09] <ogra> JaneW, yep
[01:09] <JaneW> jelkner: well it won't - sorry
[01:09] <ogra> see my tech update above :)
[01:09] <JaneW> ok so back to the cookbook
[01:09] <JaneW> we MAY havenmore time
[01:09] <ogra> screensaver will draw my time the next weeks ..
[01:10] <JaneW> which will assist with completeing the cookbook
[01:10] <spacey> i think we need another call for more writers.
[01:10] <spacey> jelkner: that cookbook worksheet still has emty status columns.
[01:10] <JaneW> we can;t count on it until the decision is made though...
[01:10] <spacey> quite hard to determine what has to be done
[01:10] <JaneW> jelkner: you said it is going well...?
[01:10] <ogra> if we postpone, i might have spare time after april 20th ...
[01:10] <jelkner> yes, we have recipes on backup
[01:10] <flint> edubuntu may be married to ubuntu, but ubuntu is staying out late...  we do not know it may become permanent.
[01:11] <ogra> flint, it wont
[01:11] <ogra> we know
[01:11] <JaneW> jelkner: cookbook update please...
[01:11] <jelkner> and another one coming on content filtering
[01:11] <ogra> flint, instead dapper+1 will only have 4.5 months for development
[01:11] <jelkner> and one more on multimedia stuff in the works
[01:11] <ogra> and we'll have to cut down features a lot
[01:11] <spacey> jelkner: what software do you offer in the content filtering?
[01:12] <JaneW> jelkner: another what on content filtering? I don't follow?
[01:12] <jelkner> squid guard and dan's guardian
[01:12] <spacey> JaneW: cookbook part
[01:12] <JaneW> jelkner: oh recipes
[01:12] <jelkner> yes, recipes
[01:12] <JaneW> great, sounds good :)
[01:12] <spacey> but the basic ingredients are still not there
[01:12] <jelkner> spacey ?
[01:12] <JaneW> jelkner: is the end in sight yet? or is the task still monumental?
[01:12] <spacey> the basic stuff
[01:12] <spacey> of the cookbook
[01:12] <ogra> what is the backup one using ?
[01:12] <spacey> is missing
[01:13] <flint> spacey, yes, but the concept is there!
[01:13] <jelkner> JaneW: the "end" of a cookbook is *never* reached ;-)
[01:13] <spacey> its really fancy you write up stuff like content filtering but if you dont cover proper installation i think you miss your point
[01:13] <jelkner> we just keep collecting recipes as we go
[01:13] <JaneW> jelkner: that's encouraging ;)
[01:13] <JaneW> jelkner: sounds like a Harry Potter book :P
[01:13] <flint> ogra, i agree that mondo/mindi is a bit rough... but what are the alternatives?
[01:13] <jelkner> lol
[01:13] <JaneW> jelkner: but we get to a 'can be published' point at some stage I hope?
[01:14] <spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet <-- still empty
[01:14] <JaneW> spacey: good point
[01:14] <flint> JaneW, you knew I would get my HP licks into this eh?
[01:14] <jelkner> JaneW: me, too, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it
[01:14] <ogra> flint, jelkner, sivang is developing a backup tool that should hit universe these days and will be the official backup solution for dapper+1
[01:14] <ogra> please talk to him
[01:14] <JaneW> jelkner: I was just wondering if we know how far away that bridge is...?
[01:14] <JaneW> ogra: if mdz allows it in. It's a bit late.
[01:14] <ogra> JaneW, universe
[01:15] <JaneW> ogra: yup
[01:15] <flint> ogra, that is worth knowing, thanks.  got any info or a url beyond this?
[01:15] <ogra> mondo/mindi is nothing i like to have in the cookbook
[01:15] <jelkner> JaneW: as you can see from what ogra just said, we are writing a desciption of a moving target
[01:15] <ogra> it requires to compile kernel stuff and uses incompatible kernels
[01:15] <jelkner> i'm not so sure publication off the web is such a good idea
[01:15] <jelkner> things change too fast
[01:15] <ogra> nothing we should do to teachers
[01:15] <spacey> dapper doesn't change
[01:15] <jelkner> an on the web cookbook is more useful because it is easier to keep up to date
[01:16] <flint> ogra, one of the most unsettling things abou the cookbook, it that it is there for the users, and many parts will not please developers.
[01:16] <ogra> jelkner, moving target ? the backup spec was developed in motreal ...
[01:16] <spacey> flint: what part will not please developers?
[01:16] <jelkner> ogra: is that ready to go now?
[01:16] <JaneW> flint: I don't see that as a problem
[01:16] <ogra> flint, mondo/mindi is a high level administrator tool ... nothing for teachers/user
[01:16] <JaneW> I think the book is more for the users
[01:16] <jelkner> we can only write "recipes" for what works
[01:16] <ogra> jelkner, please talk to sivang
[01:17] <JaneW> devs know how to find and ask for info
[01:17] <JaneW> users don;t, so an compiled book for them to read is best for them
[01:17] <flint> ogra, I am on sivang, how do I dig him up?
[01:17] <jelkner> ogra: what is sivang's email?
[01:17] <ogra> flint, he is on IL time, usually in #ubuntu-devel
[01:17] <spacey> jelkner: i don't see any moving targets or stuff that doesn't work at all in the cookbookworksheet. but its still almost empty
[01:17] <kjcole> should we be writing the cookboook to specs?  was the backup spec in montreal targeted at dapper or dapper+1?
[01:18] <jelkner> spacey: than pick a recipe and write it! ;-)
[01:18] <spacey> jelkner: i did
[01:18] <jelkner> good
[01:18] <ogra> jelkner, flint<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:18] <jelkner> thanks!
[01:18] <spacey> but i can't write all
[01:18] <flint> excellent
[01:18] <jelkner> that's how the cookbook will get filled in
[01:18] <jelkner> spacey: indeed
[01:18] <jelkner> you can only do what you have time for
[01:18] <jelkner> this is a volunteer effort
[01:19] <JaneW> jelkner: agreed
[01:19] <jelkner> so we can only take what comes
[01:19] <spacey> kjcole, jelkner i remember last week you wanted to fill in the status column of the worksheet so we have a better understanding of the status and the work to be done
[01:19] <ogra> even if the tool isnt ready, please dont promote mondo/mindi as a default (its good to have it in a *very advanced* section thjough)
[01:19] <jelkner> spacey: yes, we couldn't meet last sunday
[01:19] <JaneW> jelkner: it would help to have the status column populated, can you do that?
[01:19] <flint> ogra, the nice thing abou this user cookbook framework is that ther is a plug-ability to it.  unplug one reciepe and plug in another...
[01:19] <spacey> jelkner: when that status stuff is there its easier to ask other people to contribute since its more clean what still needs to be done
[01:20] <jelkner> ogra: we feel some solution is better than none, even if it is not ideal
[01:20] <JaneW> jelkner: it would help for volunteers wanting to help to see where input is needed
[01:20] <jelkner> the cookbook is aimed at end users
[01:20] <kjcole> That's why the worksheet is there.
[01:20] <JaneW> jelkner: yes I agree
[01:20] <flint> when sivan has a receipe that works we put it in the cookbook.
[01:20] <jelkner> it could provide solutions that are not really ready for prime time, but which are essential to solviing folks problems in the present
[01:21] <JaneW> jelkner: can you and kjcole fill in the status? or send it to me in a mail and I can do it on the wiki...
[01:21] <jelkner> so it will change as better solutions come available
[01:21] <ogra> jelkner, flint, the default reciepe should be a good explanation to set up tar/cronjobs/cdrecord and some scripts ... please dont provide users with rocket science if they only need a bycicle
[01:21] <jelkner> kjcole: can we agree to do that this weekend?
[01:21] <ogra> i agree that mondo/mindi is a good thing for people who are unix admins since some years
[01:22] <jelkner> ogra: you don't need to fear that
[01:22] <ogra> great :)
[01:22] <kjcole> jelkner, sounds good
[01:22] <jelkner> one big advantage i have is that i'm not nearly smart enough for rocket science
[01:22] <JaneW> I would say the point of the cookbook is to 1) Help USERS to understand Edubuntu, and how it is set up and works and
[01:22] <jelkner> if i can understand, chances are most other people can too
[01:22] <JaneW> 2) to reduce the support requirements, but fullfilling point #1
[01:22] <ogra> JaneW, but since some of our users need to be the admins as well, it gets a bit blurry
[01:23] <pips1> hi
[01:23] <JaneW> ogra: true, but admins may not need it
[01:23] <ogra> so we should provide the easiest ways to achieve the tasks ...
[01:23] <JaneW> ogra: someone who KNOWS can always find the info elsewhere, so if the info is a bit beneither them it's ok
[01:23] <JaneW> we can't cater for everyone
[01:23] <ogra> yep
[01:24] <JaneW> ok, so with all that said, is it going ok jelkner and kjcole ?
[01:24] <jelkner> yes
[01:24] <jelkner> i think it is
[01:24] <JaneW> excellent! Thank-you :)
[01:25] <JaneW> I have faith that it's going to ROCK
[01:25] <jelkner> cya next week then, same time, same channel...
[01:25] <JaneW> thanks
[01:25] <JaneW> bye
[01:25] <Yagisan> kjcole: jelkner: need some docs on securing edubuntu ?
[01:25] <jelkner> Yagisan: how do you mean?
[01:26] <kjcole> Yagisan, if written with teachers in mind, sure.  Why not?  (Just keep the intended audience in  mind.  Many who may be a bit timid about Linux.)
[01:26] <Yagisan> jelkner: securing against malicious users etc. I can't find server security in your cookbook draft
[01:26] <ogra> jelkner, Yagisan is security cionsultant
[01:26] <spacey> Yagisan: i don't think the Edubuntu cookbook can go much further then setting proper limits.conf
[01:27] <JaneW> Yagisan: thanks for offer to help, can you and jelkner discuss in #e or the mailing list?
[01:27] <Yagisan> I can assist with basic documentation in that area
[01:27] <Yagisan> I'll be in #edubuntu If you'd like it
[01:27] <JaneW> Yagisan: any doc help would be greatfully accepted
[01:27] <flint> Yagisan, my deepest condolences on your profession of being a security consultant.  I have don this.
[01:27] <JaneW> gratefully too
[01:27] <jelkner> great, now i need to get ready for the arrival of the munchgins...
[01:28] <JaneW> ok, so flight 5 is out
[01:28] <JaneW> how's it looking?
[01:28] <flint> ogra, what is the url for flight 5?  I would like to test it.
[01:29] <pips1> flint, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
[01:29] <JaneW> ogra: did the announcement page get updated?
[01:29] <ogra> flint, the latest link to a dev release is always in the #edubuntu channel topic
[01:30] <ogra> JaneW, there were not enough noticeable changes imho, and Mithrandir already covered edubuntu in his announcement
[01:30] <flint> pips1, thanks, I just did not have it handy, Olli, I had a feeling you had it in the same place...
[01:30] <ogra> flint, if i release a flight i update the topic immediately
[01:30] <ogra> so safest is to look there
[01:30] <JaneW> ogra: I saw Mithrandir's announcement linked to edubuntu too
[01:30] <ogra> yep
[01:31] <flint> ogra, gotcha, and now i see it.
[01:31] <JaneW> ok
[01:31] <JaneW> ogra: so there aren't many changes
[01:31] <kjcole> flint also  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
[01:31] <JaneW> bug fixes?
[01:31] <pips1> ogra, re flight5, did you mainly fix that manual update ssh keys step, or where there other changes too?
[01:32] <ogra> JaneW, only small ones and the one that required you to run ltsp-update-sshkeys after install ....
[01:32] <ogra> so currently it should work as breezy did ...
[01:32] <ogra> wrt install
[01:32] <JaneW> ok
[01:32] <flint> ogra, do you think that will fix the login bug?
[01:32] <ogra> it does
[01:33] <JaneW> what else need to be done?
[01:33] <flint> ogra, excellent!!!
[01:33] <ogra> artwork
[01:33] <JaneW> are you more or less done with the dev now?
[01:33] <ogra> i need some days time to jump on the artwork
[01:33] <JaneW> you mentioned colours not working well...?
[01:33] <ogra> yes, only bugfixing ...
[01:33] <JaneW> ogra: cool, well done
[01:33] <ogra> they are still adjusted in ubuntu, lets see what comes out
[01:34] <pips1> ogra, are the bugfixes mainly stuff that can be seen in launchpad, or do you have a list of bugs of your own?
[01:34] <ogra> i get ltsp fixes from debian, our ltsp package was added to debian testing yesterday
[01:34] <ogra> thats very helpful ...
[01:34] <JaneW> ogra: ok, just keep an eye on it, cos breezy edubuntu looked good (even if a small minority doesn't think so), so we need to make sure we are distinctive
[01:35] <ogra> pips1, usually i encounter the bugs locally and fix them immediately :)
[01:35] <pips1> ic
[01:35] <ogra> pips1, there are only 2 or 3 user reported bugs in LP
[01:35] <ogra> (for ltsp)
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra: not sure if that is efficient or lazy ;)
[01:35] <JaneW> *joking*
[01:36] <pips1> JaneW, give that man a break!
[01:36] <ogra> JaneW, very efficient, but it misses out user bugs ... but unless i get reports i have nothing to fix
[01:36] <pips1> ah!
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: agreed
[01:36] <flint> ogra, how is malone working out on your end?
[01:36] <JaneW> pips1: I think he knows it was said in jest :)
[01:36] <ogra> so either ltsp is perfectly bugfree or users are shy :)
[01:36] <pips1> ok, sure :-)
[01:36] <ogra> flint, great using it daily
[01:36] <flint> ogra, or no one is testing...
[01:37] <flint> ogra, that is what I thought... no more bugzilla at all.
[01:37] <ogra> since bugzilla is nonexistent it would be hard to use it :)
[01:37] <JaneW> ogra: I think we must post more calls for testing on the mailing list
[01:38] <flint> It is out there, just not for this.
[01:38] <JaneW> speaking of which we need to discuss the mailing list name
[01:38] <ogra> lets just call it edubuntu ...
[01:38] <pips1> ogra, +1
[01:38] <JaneW> does everyone agree we should change the 'edubuntu-devel' list to 'edubuntu'
[01:38] <spacey> yup
[01:38] <JaneW> ok, so how does that happen?
[01:39] <JaneW> as per that mail to the list?
[01:39] <ogra> JaneW, jdub
[01:39] <ogra> he needs to create the new one ... then we need to subscribe everyone from -devl to it
[01:39] <JaneW> does everyone have to update their saved address only?
[01:39] <jdub> change or add a new list?
[01:39] <ogra> then we can delete -devel
[01:39] <ogra> jdub, name channge
[01:39] <jdub> would it be useful to keep devel for those discussions?
[01:40] <JaneW> jdub: the proposal is to change  'edubuntu-devel' list to 'edubuntu'
[01:40] <ogra> we want it to be edubuntu instead of edubuntu-devel
[01:40] <JaneW> since ppl are scared to post on 'devel'
[01:40] <spacey> and its not really a devel channel anyway :p
[01:40] <jdub> the rough standard we currently have would suggest edubuntu-users - how's that?
[01:40] <ogra> jdub, not really the terffic is low enough for both ...
[01:40] <JaneW> and it's an all purpose list as our community is small still
[01:40] <kjcole> +1 edubuntu-devel ->  edubuntu
[01:40] <ogra> jdub, it shall cover devel as well as users, so calling it -users might be confudsing
[01:41] <JaneW> jdub: we would splity into devel and users if the traffic grows enough to warrant it.
[01:41] <JaneW> ogra: you and I have the same speed-typing bug ;)
[01:41] <ogra> heh
[01:42] <JaneW> jdub: so what's the verdict?
[01:42] <pips1> I'd like to talk a bit about the website...
[01:42] <JaneW> pips1: yes, that's on my list
[01:43] <jdub> ok, can i suggest we create an edubuntu-users list, subscribe everyone to it, and you guys can carry out most discussion there, until you need to start pushing stuff over to -devel? i don't want to be doing things out of standard, particularly when it's going to change again (hopefully soon)
[01:43] <JaneW> jdub: ok, I can live with that
[01:43] <JaneW> ogra: ?^
[01:43] <ogra> hmm
[01:44] <ogra> does it really need to be -users ?
[01:44] <pips1> hmm too
[01:44] <ogra> ok, then i'd opt for having -users and -devel rather
[01:44] <JaneW> ++
[01:44] <ogra> even if it doesnt make sense with the amount of traffic
[01:45] <JaneW> ogra: we can push them to the same mail folder...
[01:45] <ogra> sure
[01:45] <jdub> ogra: by not doing -users, it means we're inconsistent now, and when you decide to split, it's far less likely that people would want to rename, so we'd be permanently inconsistent :)
[01:45] <spacey> you gonna subscribe everyone on both lists?
[01:45] <spacey> or move everyone to users
[01:45] <JaneW> spacey: hrm...
[01:45] <spacey> and let them subscribe to devel again?:P
[01:45] <JaneW> yup, move everyone to users and let ppl sub to devel if they want to...
[01:45] <jdub> (kubuntu had both lists to start too)
[01:45] <ogra> spacey, everyone to both and leave it up to them to unsubscribe from one ?
[01:46] <jdub> ogra: yeah, i think it's easier to do that
[01:46] <ogra> yep
[01:46] <spacey> yeah probably best
[01:46] <JaneW> I prefer my way, else well get dozens of 'take me off this list' mails
[01:46] <ogra> it will break mail filters though ..
[01:46] <spacey> they subscribed to devel anyway
[01:46] <spacey> :)
[01:46] <jdub> JaneW: oh, later on when e-d starts being used?
[01:46] <JaneW> whatever
[01:46] <ogra> can we postpone the decision ?
[01:47] <JaneW> jdub: we'll mail you :)
[01:47] <ogra> and ask on the list for the preferred methiod ?
[01:47] <jdub> heh, ok
[01:47] <JaneW> jdub: thanks for the input
[01:47] <pips1> ok
[01:47] <pips1> highvoltage is on the ball the design/theme
[01:48] <pips1> I am working on the content structure
[01:48] <pips1> the basic idea is that we want to be very inviting for non-geeks
[01:49] <pips1> I wrote up some ideas about the subject a while ago: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
[01:49] <JaneW> pips1: I saw what highvoltage had done yesterday, looking nice
[01:49] <JaneW> I agree with your idea
[01:49] <ogra> JaneW, have you also checkeed pips1s example setup ?
[01:50] <ogra> its very good
[01:50] <JaneW> it needs to be encouraging and non-threatening and very intuitive
[01:50] <pips1> drupal is a very flexible tool... there are many things you can do... but I would like to start it "small" and only grow as needed, instead of offering too much functionality to confuse user unnecessarily
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: briefly yes :)
[01:50] <JaneW> pips1: yes, agreed
[01:50] <pips1> one thing that's on my mind
[01:50] <pips1> newbies are very happy to use forums
[01:50] <JaneW> yes
[01:51] <JaneW> BUT
[01:51] <JaneW> they need moderation
[01:51] <pips1> I remember someone mentioned that they will create a new forum for edubuntu over at ubuntuforums
[01:51] <JaneW> and we can;t expect ogra to provide support there as well...
[01:51] <pips1> JaneW, yes, that's what I am getting at
[01:51] <spacey> hook it up to the mailinglist?
[01:51] <spacey> like they did with others
[01:51] <JaneW> ok, I'll back off ;)
[01:52] <ogra> JaneW, you wont get me reading/using a forum :)
[01:52] <JaneW> ogra: good :P
[01:52] <spacey> didn't they hook up ubuntu-users with a forum?
[01:53] <ogra> the prob is that people with only halfbrewed knowledge often give wrong help in forums (at least i see that in the ubuntu forums)
[01:53] <pips1> so I wonder: we could have a forum on the new edubuntu site, but keep the discussion on non-technical subjects, ie everything that has to do with the operating system, desktop, blablabla will be in the ubuntuforums, BUT we could have some "educational" topic on the edubuntu website forum, what do you think?
[01:53] <Yagisan> ogra: so polite
[01:53] <ogra> and that dves very seldom handg around in forums to fix that
[01:53] <spacey> say again? :)
[01:53] <ogra> Yagisan, yes, i'm biund to the CoC, you know :P
[01:53] <flint> ogra, one of the great un-answered issues is the idea of developoer-support before you can think about user-support...
[01:53] <ogra> *bound
[01:54] <ogra> flint, thats what edubuntu-devel was thought for
[01:54] <pips1> ?
[01:54] <ogra> on a sidenote and a bit OT, edubuntu was on german TV last week :) http://<IP_ADDRESS>/cebit.avi
[01:54] <JaneW> pips1: might be good for edu content discussions and curriculum stuff and sharing...
[01:54] <pips1> :-)
[01:55] <flint> ogra, I understand, did it work?  or do you have random people giving out bad advice on the edubuntu channels?
[01:55] <ogra> pips1, thats why we called it -devel first place
[01:55] <JaneW> pips1: did you see my comment?
[01:55] <pips1> JaneW, that's what i was thinking... but there are already other site that are very dedicated to educational topics too...
[01:55] <JaneW> pips1: and ppl can discuss the latest edu app they found etc
[01:55] <ogra> flint, i'm observing the ML and #edubuntu and #edubuntu-de very closely ... only if one slips through so ...
[01:55] <JaneW> pips1: yes but our users may not know them...
[01:56] <flint> ogra, you are like hercules at the gate.  but even you have to sleep.
[01:56] <flint> ogra, that is no solution.
[01:56] <ogra> sadly, yes
[01:56] <pips1> JaneW, yes, maybe that should be the focus on our "own" forum, what edu *apps* do they want to see in edubuntu...
[01:57] <flint> ogra, we need a command "apt-make ogra-clones"
[01:57] <JaneW> ogra: that's ubuntu not edubuntu :P
[01:57] <Mez> JaneW, surely it wouldnt be too hard to link to other forums regarding curriculum etc etc?
[01:57] <spacey> nice video fragment :)
[01:57] <ogra> :)
[01:57] <flint> spacey, where?
 on a sidenote and a bit OT, edubuntu was on german TV last week :) http://<IP_ADDRESS>/cebit.avi
[01:57] <spacey> german is so cute
[01:58] <ogra> i like when they say "response from schools is appreciated and expected" :)
[01:58] <pips1> Mez, yes, we just provide links to dedicated sites, and keep the stuff on our site relevant to Education + Edubuntu, that's what I was thinking
[01:58] <ogra> hehe
[01:58] <spacey> pips1: yeah thats great
[01:58] <spacey> pips1: no need to duplicate ubuntu stuff
[01:58] <ogra> Riddell, so where are the Kedubuntu people ... i want to drop kdeedu :)
[01:58] <Mez> Riddell, I was thinking that
[01:59] <Mez> lol - kedubuntu sounds like a headache waiting to happen
[01:59] <pips1> so, do people think that an integrated forum on the new edubuntu site is something we want?
[01:59] <spacey> pips1: you can always do it later
[01:59] <Seveas> Edkubuntu
[01:59] <ogra> pips1, nope, but its something users will like :)
[02:00] <JaneW> ah now that I have the WHOLE clip I see edubuntu ;)
[02:00] <ogra> i think our audience is pretty different from the general ubuntu forum users
[02:00] <flint> cebit is big time...
[02:00] <ogra> so i think it makes sense to have our own forum
[02:00] <kjcole> should be kid-ubuntu, and you could even  have a  superhero / cowboy  'Look!  It's Kid  Ubuntu!'
[02:00] <kjcole> ;-)
[02:00] <JaneW> or id oubuntu
[02:00] <pips1> ogra, right
[02:00] <spacey> ogra: which kind of end-users do you want to target it at. the endusers that deploy edubuntu or the end-end users who actually use it.
[02:01] <JaneW> kjcole: I like it!
[02:01] <ogra> the teachers ... the students ...
[02:01] <Mez> spacey - or the end-end-end users (the kids)
[02:01] <pips1> so ogra, would you mind checking in on our "own" forum then? against what you said before in general regarding forums? ;-)
[02:01] <spacey> ok thats great
[02:01] <spacey> so really no technical stuff then
[02:01] <spacey> besides some openoffice tips and tricks
[02:01] <ogra> spacey, support ...
[02:01] <spacey> and some tips for linux games
[02:01] <flint> JaneW, you neve liked my Harry Potter/ magic thing, i think you are playing kevin as your favorite...
[02:01] <spacey> :P
[02:01] <ogra> that will include tech stuff
[02:02] <spacey> ogra: but end-end users don't do that stuff
[02:02] <flint> spacey, I think they are receipes...
[02:02] <Mez> pips1, see /query
[02:02] <ogra> pips1, i'll have to fight me into it i guess
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: it was your handicapped duck I didn't like!
[02:02] <ogra> spacey, ?
[02:02] <spacey> ogra: the end users who use edubuntu daily dont do techinal stuff
[02:02] <flint> JaneW, that cut, very deep, my art rep is gone!
[02:02] <flint> \:^)
[02:03] <JaneW> ok our official time is up
[02:03] <spacey> the guy or girl who administrators the edubuntu machine does
[02:03] <ogra> spacey, but the teachers using it might have tech questions
[02:03] <pips1> sorry, guys, i need to run, I have a meeting!
[02:03] <flint> thanks all.
[02:03] <pips1> good input though, thanks!
[02:03] <JaneW> pips1: ok thanks, I think a small forum is good
[02:03] <ogra> spacey, and the students might rather have app related ones
[02:03] <JaneW> we still need to decide what to put in it though
[02:03] <flint> Yagisan, we might want to talk security. email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:03] <pips1> cu next wed
[02:03] <JaneW> ty
[02:03] <Mez> ogra: you have the people who set it up and admin it - the teachers and the pupils/students
[02:03] <ogra> ciao pips1 and thanks
[02:03] <spacey> ogra: hmm yeah and i forget you can also do desktop installs
[02:03] <JaneW> thanks everyone
[02:03] <Mez> what an annoying setup
[02:04] <ogra> spacey, yup
[02:04] <JaneW> and thanks for a better controlled discussion today
[02:04] <flint> sksk
[02:04] <Yagisan> flint: no worries. I'll add you to my contacts list
[02:04] <spacey> JaneW: i think it was still quite messy ;p
[02:04] <JaneW> less bickering and general disruption :)
[02:04] <JaneW> spacey: I agree
[02:04] <ogra> Mez, the first two are often the same
[02:04] <JaneW> I said LESS
[02:04] <JaneW> it;s a start
[02:04] <spacey> :D
[02:04] <Mez> ogra true :D
[02:04] <ogra> Mez, and are rather teachers then techs
[02:05] <Seveas> que?
[02:05] <JaneW> he knows how to keep tight control of a mob
[02:05] <spacey> JaneW: yeah he was spying on us anyway :P
[02:05] <Seveas> ah
[02:05] <JaneW> heh
[02:05] <Mez> ogra: thanks for fixing that bug up in xscreensaver btw -
[02:05] <Mez> it was nice for it to throw off an edubuntu presentation
[02:05] <ogra> which one ? i fixed a ton the last week :)
[02:05] <Mez> *sighs*
[02:05] <JaneW> Seveas: the edubuntu meetings are notoriously messy ;)
[02:05] <Mez> ogra: the planet feed one
[02:05] <ogra> ah
[02:05] <Mez> where "wave your bullshit wand with me"
[02:05] <ogra> thats not fixed yet :)
[02:05] <Mez> decided to scroll across my screen during a presentation
[02:05] <ogra> so be careful ...
[02:05] <Mez> :D
[02:05] <cusco> hi
[02:06] <cusco> how about the meeting?
[02:06] <cusco> is dapper being delayed?
[02:06] <ogra> Seveas, !!
[02:06] <Riddell>  /mode +b cusco
[02:06] <Seveas> cusco, that was yesterday - please see wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary
[02:07] <cusco> ok thanks
[02:07] <Seveas> ogra/Riddell - relax - he's the first oen today
[02:07] <cusco> sorry I was away
[02:07] <Seveas> one*
[02:07] <ogra> oki
[02:07] <ogra> and we are done anyway i think
[02:07] <Seveas> (nice type - oen is dutch for stupid person ;))
[02:07] <Kaja> 8D
[02:08] <spacey> ogra: where is that cebit.avi hosted? on a dsl line or?
[02:08] <ogra> nope, a vserver i own ...
[02:08] <ogra> my play adound box ... with free traffic
[02:08] <spacey> enough bandwith?
[02:08] <ogra> *around
[02:08] <spacey> wanted to blog about it for some extra exposure
[02:08] <ogra> dunno, i never stresstested it ...
[02:09] <spacey> but don't want to rape some box
[02:09] <spacey> :p
[02:09] <Riddell> ogra could put it on people.ubuntu.com
[02:09] <spacey> although i'm not that popular :p
[02:09] <ogra> go ahaead, worst case i'll put it on people.u.c
[02:09] <ogra> Riddell, its a good opportunity to test the vserver ;)+
[02:10] <spacey> in my dreams that my blog is that popular you can stresstest :p
[02:10] <ogra> so do we close ?
[02:10] <JaneW> yes
[02:10] <ogra> spacey, you are on planet, arent you ?
[02:10] <spacey> not yet
[02:10] <JaneW> yes
[02:10] <Seveas> he should be
[02:10] <spacey> need to poke jdub for that
[02:10] <JaneW> oh, I thought I saw you there?...
[02:10] <ogra> yes
[02:10] <ogra> spacey, DOIT !
[02:10] <Seveas> JaneW, he's on the dutch planet ;)
[02:10] <ogra> dutch planet ?
[02:10] <ogra> haha
[02:10] <spacey> planet ollanda
[02:11] <ogra> you are one of the smalles countries and have a planet ? :)
[02:11] <JaneW> spacey: ok, I def saw you somewhere, I must have been snooping around ;)
[02:11] <ogra> beware the dutch taking over the world :)
[02:11] <Seveas> ogra, planet.ubuntu-nl.org is sometimes more filled than planet.ubuntu.com
[02:12] <ogra> thats just because i never blog :)
[02:14] <jdub> puc is slow
[02:14] <jdub> need to encourage more members to join in the fun
[02:14] <jdub> like JaneW
[02:15] <ogra> yeah !
[02:16] <spacey> jdub: can you add my blog? :)
[02:17] <jdub> spacey: please email me the rss feed url and link to a hackergotchi if you have one
[02:17] <spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey
[02:17] <spacey> :)
[02:17] <spacey> ok
[02:17] <spacey> i'll find a poor soul to make a new hackergotchi first
[02:18] <spacey> :P
[02:18] <Seveas> spacey, treenaks is good at that
[02:18] <spacey> Seveas: sure? :P
[02:19] <JaneW> jdub: er do you actaully read my blog!?
[02:19] <JaneW> jdub: NSFW sometimes!
[02:19] <ogra> JaneW, *i* would .... if it would show up on planet
[02:20] <JaneW> yeah but I actually have to face you guys a few times a year...
[02:20] <JaneW> I;d prefer not to be dying of embarassment at the time
[02:24] <Mez> JaneW, lol - you should add it to planet :D I'm sure a few of us all say things on our blogs we regret
[02:24] <Mez> hence why I have a personal and a geeky blog
[02:24] <neuralis> JaneW: a bit of nsfw is exactly what planet needs. :)
[02:24] <Seveas> JaneW, what's the url of your blog?
[02:24] <Mez> neuralis, once xscreensaver is fixed ;)
[02:30] <Mez> Seveas, googling for it doesnt seem to work
[02:30] <Seveas> Mez, I found that out already
[02:30] <Seveas> JaneW, !
[02:31] <Mez> Seveas, though googling for it does list JaneW's Cellphone number
[02:32] <Seveas> rofl
[02:32] <Mez> JaneW, lol - seriously - google your name and the word "blog" and goto page 2
[02:32] <Mez> someone quoted an email in which you signed with your Cell # on the end
[02:32] <JaneW> er, is it safe?
[02:33] <JaneW> my mobile is at the end of every message I send, so it's ALL over
[02:33] <JaneW> on the mailing lists and in release announcements etc
[02:33] <Seveas> Jane 'JaneW' Weideman - The Project-Mistress with the Whip
[02:33] <Mez> lol
[02:33] <Seveas> but still no blog ur
[02:33] <Seveas> url even
[02:34] <Mez> I guess you're not going to enlighten us JaneW ?
[02:35] <JaneW> Mez: where's yours?
[02:35] <Seveas> JaneW, planet Ubuntu ;)
[02:35] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/
[02:35] <Mez> I'm on planet ubuntu :d
[02:35] <Mez> screen me?
[02:35] <Mez> o_O
[02:35] <Seveas> Mez, full cavityi search
[02:36] <Mez> JaneW, all I have to say is "end point of order" :P
[02:36] <JaneW> that whip page won;t open
[02:36] <JaneW> LOL
[02:36] <JaneW> Mez: yes I remeber that game BROKE me
[02:37] <Mez> JaneW, I believe it broke EVERYONE....
[02:37] <JaneW> 'also'!
[02:37] <Mez> yeah
[02:37] <Mez> that was insane
[02:37] <Mez> :D
[02:37] <ogra> JaneW, thats \sh's blog, might be he cant pay for his server anymore
[02:37] <JaneW> heh, ok
[02:37] <Mez> that reminds me
[02:38] <Seveas> @quote add * JaneW SO needs to bring a whip to the next gathering
[02:38] <neuralis> JaneW: +1.
[02:38] <ogra> i cant reach him, tried after his last entry ...
[02:38] <Mez> JaneW, that might even be reason for me to come to the next one :D
[02:38] <ogra> but seems he neither can pay his phone bill anymore
[02:38] <JaneW> ogra: should we be worried?
[02:39] <ogra> JaneW, i am a bit, yes
[02:39] <JaneW> ...
[02:40] <neuralis> JaneW: no changing the subject. we're still earnestly trying to coax the url of your blog out of you.
[02:41] <JaneW> neuralis: what kind of country is an educational institution?
[02:41] <neuralis> JaneW: in my case, one with a royally screwed up government :-D
[02:42] <JaneW> neuralis: Zimbabwe!
[02:43] <neuralis> JaneW: not quite, but most non-europeans have never heard of my country, so zimbabwe is close enough
[02:47] <spacey> so what country is it
[02:47] <spacey> could be any country
[02:48] <neuralis> originally croatia, though i'm in the US now
[02:48] <spacey> aha
[02:48] <spacey> i know that
[02:49] <ogra> neuralis, btw, i had a guy who wanted to run 20 servers and 750 clients on edubuntu with clustering, i pointed him to you, did he approach you ?
[02:49] <neuralis> ogra: nope, didn't hear from him
[02:49] <ogra> ah, sad
[02:49] <neuralis> he wouldn't be able to (easily) do it
[02:50] <neuralis> at least not until we release openssi packages for dapper, which might be a while longer
[02:50] <spacey> you can use a load balancer though
[02:51] <spacey> and spread the connections over servers
[02:51] <neuralis> sure, but that's usually very messy
[02:52] <neuralis> spacey: google my name, first hit, click talks, then look at the slides of the presentation i gave at ltsp by the seaway on clustering ltsp
[02:52] <neuralis> in practice, simple load balancing turns out to be a massive pain
[02:55] <spacey> neuralis: can't read that
[02:55] <spacey> its not english
[02:56] <spacey> spanish
[02:56] <neuralis> wrong url.. let me look it up for you
[02:56] <Seveas> spacey, learn spanish :
[02:57] <ogra> spacey, Seveas will translate for you :)
[02:57] <neuralis> oh, i think he googled my irc nick instead of my name
[02:58] <ogra> yeah, whois is a helpful tool :)
[02:58] <neuralis> spacey: anyway, here: http://hcs.harvard.edu/~krstic/11-2005-clustering-ltsp.pdf
[02:58] <spacey> actually i'm learning spanish
[02:58] <spacey> i'm quite sure i googled your irc nick
[02:59] <spacey> too bad i missed that talk on UBZ
[02:59] <neuralis> spacey: right, i said google my name. anyway, i found the url, it's above, so no worries.
[02:59] <spacey> whois is really difficult in gnomexchat
[02:59] <spacey> you need it type it :P
[03:00] <ogra> spacey, unless yu right click the name, no ?
[03:00] <neuralis> you have to be able to right click the nick and get a context menu
[03:00] <spacey> ogra: doesn't work
[03:00] <ogra> neuralis, xchat-gnome might be different
[03:00] <spacey> xchat had it really nice indeed
[03:00] <ogra> just use that then :)
[03:01] <ogra> neither is in the ubuntu-desktop package anymore
[03:01] <spacey> xchat gnome has it advantages
[03:01] <spacey> really?
[03:01] <ogra> i cant see any ...
[03:01] <ogra> apart from noisy notifications
[03:01] <Seveas> I tried chat-gnome - briefl
[03:01] <Seveas> y
[03:02] <ogra> we dont ship any chat program by default in dapper ... (apart from gaim)
[03:02] <Seveas> it's horrible :/
[03:02] <ogra> yep
[03:02] <Seveas> I understand the switch to gnome-screensaver much bett than the switch to xchat-gnome ;)
[03:03] <ogra> heh
[03:03] <ogra> me too, even if g-s-s is giving me the worst headaches evah
[03:04] <spacey> i can remember that openssi stuff from ubz
[03:04] <spacey> someone came up with that quite at lot
[03:05] <spacey> must have beeen neuralis :p
[03:05] <neuralis> spacey: i discussed it in the clustering meeting, yes
[03:05] <spacey> i remember it coming up quite a lot during BOFs
[03:06] <neuralis> really? i didn't hear it mentioned outside of clustering-bof
[03:07] <sivang> Seveas: would it be possible to add to the topic the current meeting that is going on for those who like to pop in and out occasionaly? :-)
[03:08] <ogra> there is no meeting...
[03:08] <ogra> we just keep the channel warm for the next one :)
[03:08] <Seveas> sivang, the channel is -t, anyone can add things to the topic
[03:09] <spacey> neuralis: ah you work on hybserv as well?
[03:09] <sivang> Seveas: k, thanks.
[03:09] <Seveas> I could get ubugtu to speak webcal and update the topic
[03:10] <Seveas> that would be fun
[03:10] <sivang> Seveas: tasty!
[03:10] <sivang> Seveas: frdige support webcam for it's events?
[03:10] <neuralis> spacey: yeah, in fact, hybserv's pretty exciting at the moment
[03:11] <spacey> neuralis: does it have ldap support yet? :P
[03:11] <spacey> neuralis: oh i see hybserv3 is completely in python? thats cute
[03:11] <Seveas> sivang, yes
[03:11] <Seveas> I have it in my evolution
[03:12] <neuralis> spacey: well, we've just begun the rewrite, but the goal is that when we write it, you'll be easily able to hook in something like ldap support, if that floated your boat
[03:12] <sivang> Seveas: is it easy to connect to from evo?
[03:13] <Seveas> yeah, just add the fridge webcal url to the calendar
[03:13] <spacey> neuralis: but i guess it will be a while before its finished?
[03:13] <neuralis> spacey: yes, we're still in super-early planning stages
[03:13] <Seveas> sivang, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10292
[03:15] <sivang> Seveas: cool, so http://fridge.ubuntu.com/webcal?
[03:15] <Seveas> ical
[03:15] <Seveas> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
[03:16] <sivang> okay, evo crashed when adding it
[03:17] <Seveas> rofl
[03:17] <Seveas> file bug
[03:17] <neuralis> sivang: it's wednesday. evo crashes on wednesdays. it's a feature.
[03:17] <Seveas> hahahahahahahahaha
[03:18] <Seveas> neuralis, you can't duck - it's not safe with the avian flu flying around
[03:18] <sivang> ogra: heh
[03:18] <neuralis> Seveas: i actually considered typing /me drakes, but i thought that would be way too nerdy even for this channel.
[03:18] <Seveas> no way
[03:18] <Seveas> my first response was - hey, you should drake, not duck
[03:19] <Seveas> but then I remembered the crap from ubuntu-devel this morning
[03:19] <neuralis> hah yeah
[03:19] <Chousuke> hmm.
[03:19] <highvoltage> hmmm... this channel is getting to warm
[03:20] <highvoltage> l8rs :)
[03:20] <sivang> Seveas: okay, it's working now. slick
[03:20] <sivang> Seveas: thanks for the tip
[03:24] <Seveas> @load Webcal
[03:24] <Seveas> @config list plugins
[03:24] <Seveas> sigh
[03:25] <Seveas> @load Webcal
[03:25] <Seveas> @config list plugins
[03:25] <Ubugtu> @Admin, @BanTracker, @Bugtracker, @Channel, @ChannelRelay, @Config, @DCC, @Exploitban, @Facrs, @Facts, @Fortune, @Mess, @Misc, @Owner, @Quote, @Quotes, @Seen, @User, @Webcal, and alwaysLoadImportant
[03:25] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.url http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
[03:25] <sivang> Seveas: what, is it ready? how did you load it with it so fast?
[03:25] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.url
[03:25] <Ubugtu> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
[03:26] <Seveas> sivang, what you just saw is the etent of its capabilites so far - loading a stub plugin and setting a config variable
[03:26] <sivang> Seveas: ah, I see. for that you already have biolerplate code?
[03:26] <Seveas> yeah, supybot is quite easy
[03:27] <sivang> Seveas: btw, could you do me a quick favor? see if you can sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso ?
[03:27] <Seveas> I just need to write the parser now and somehow find a timer
[03:27] <sivang> Seveas: or write a timer of your own
[03:27] <Seveas> where is test.iso?
[03:27] <sivang> Seveas: lemme put i online
[03:27] <Seveas> no, supybot has timers i think - just need to hook it up
[03:28] <Seveas> and make it non-intrusive
[03:29] <sivang> Seveas: muse.19inch.net/~sivan/test.iso
[03:29] <sivang> wget it or something and then attemp to loop back mount it. are you on dapper btw?
[03:29] <Seveas> yes
[03:30] <sivang> okay, let's see then
[03:30] <Seveas> dennis@mirage:~$ mount -o loop test.iso test_iso/
[03:30] <Seveas> mount: only root can do that
[03:30] <Seveas> dennis@mirage:~$ sudo mount -o loop test.iso test_iso
[03:30] <Seveas> Password:
[03:30] <Seveas> mount: Not a directory
[03:30] <Seveas> test_iso IS a directory..
[03:31] <sivang> yes it is
[03:32] <sivang> weird no?
[03:32] <Seveas> quite
[03:33] <sivang> do you know any other way to mount a loop back device through the 'mount' command?
[03:33] <Seveas> stat64("/sbin/mount.iso9660", 0xbfa08fcc) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[03:33] <Seveas> mount("/dev/loop0", "./test_iso", "iso9660", MS_POSIXACL|MS_ACTIVE|MS_NOUSER|0xec0000, 0x8074f38) = -1 ENOTDIR (Not a directory)
[03:34] <Seveas> not really
[03:36] <sivang> I also stracd it lik ethis, and it didn't make sense. maybe a glibc bug?
[03:37] <Seveas> I have really no idea
[03:39] <sivang> okay, I made it work. stupid me:
[03:39] <sivang> sudo mount test.iso ./test.iso -o loop
[03:39] <sivang> this is the correct form
[03:42] <sivang> oh no
[03:42] <sivang> it was not
[03:42] <Seveas> shouldn't matter
[03:42] <sivang> same dir problem again
[03:42] <sivang> yes , it shouldn't
[03:42] <sivang> but that way itworked
[03:42] <Seveas> the strace indicated that it took the correct paths
[03:42] <sivang> for some weird reason
[03:57] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[03:57] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[03:57] <Seveas> @load webcal
[03:59] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
[03:59] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic
[03:59] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
[03:59] <Seveas> good
[03:59] <Seveas> now on to phase 3: doing something useful
[04:07] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:07] <Seveas> @topic
[04:07] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[04:07] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:07] <Seveas> @topic
[04:07] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[04:08] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:08] <Seveas> @topic
[04:08] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[04:09] <Seveas> ah feck
[04:09] <Seveas> @quit
[04:11] <simira> huh
[04:14] <simira> what is the status of the delay-issue?
[04:14] <Seveas> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary
[04:15] <simira> what is IndLinux?
[04:15] <Seveas> Indian Linux distro
[04:15] <Seveas> @quit
[04:17] <simira> right...
[04:33] <Seveas> woohoo
[04:33] <Seveas> @topic
[04:33] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: (1 more message)
[04:33] <Seveas> now to hook that up
[04:36] <Seveas> @more
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Dapper Development Status Meeting
[04:36] <sivang> @topic
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: (1 more message)
[04:36] <sivang> coool
[04:36] <Seveas> @more sivang
[04:36] <sivang> @more
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Dapper Development Status Meeting
[04:37] <Seveas> I'm trimming it to the next 6 items on the agenda
[04:37] <sivang> yes, makes sense
[04:37] <Seveas> now to figure out how to update the topic
[04:37] <Seveas> (ie: retrieve current topic, and only change if different)
[04:39] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:39] <Seveas> @topic
[04:39] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting
[04:39] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board Meeting
[04:40] <Seveas> right, one step closer
[04:40] <Seveas> @topic
[04:40] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting
[04:40] <Ubugtu> bogus
[04:42] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:42] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:42] <Seveas> @load WebCal
[04:42] <Seveas> @topic
[04:42] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[04:42] <Seveas> @load WebCal
[04:42] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:42] <Seveas> @topic
[04:42] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[04:43] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:43] <Seveas> @topic
[04:43] <MarioMeyer> nice feature :P
[04:45] <Seveas> will be nicer
[04:47] <Fracture> a nice feature will be a command that allows showing that info in a specific timezone .. like @topic Australia/Brisbane ;)
[04:48] <Seveas> Fracture, very nice
[04:48] <Seveas> I'll add that
[04:49] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:49] <Fracture> :)
[04:49] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:49] <Seveas> Ubugtu, you creep
[04:50] <robotgeek> Seveas: having fun, eh
[04:50] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
 The topic of #ubuntu-meeting is managed by me and filled with the contents of http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical - please don't change manually
[04:50] <Seveas> he spits that in private msg
[04:51] <Seveas> ok, now to hook up a timer
[04:51] <sivang> Seveas: beware not to create a monser :) mUHHA
[04:51] <Seveas> sivang, if it goes out of control i'll send robotgeek to catch him
[04:52] <robotgeek> heh
[04:52] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[04:53] <Seveas> @topic
[04:53] <Seveas> @topic
[04:53] <Seveas> good
[04:53] <robotgeek> sweet
[04:53] <Seveas> it would be very annoying if it would change the topic to the same text over and over
[04:54] <robotgeek> heh, trigger bot maybe?
[04:55] <Seveas> I want to make it change the topic every n minutes if it needs to be changed
[04:55] <robotgeek> yeah, the would work reasonably well also.
[04:56] <sivang> Seveas: hheh
[04:56] <robotgeek> i came to find out when the super meeting would be CC + TB
[04:56] <sivang> Seveas: wow, we would have super bot!
[04:56] <sivang> robotgeek: when??
[04:57] <sivang> robotgeek: and who told you?
[04:57] <oRED> anybody has the dapper_flight5 .torrent to send me? the link in website is broken
[04:57] <robotgeek> sivang: i came to find that out
[04:57] <sivang> robotgeek: ah
[04:57] <sivang> heh
[04:57] <oRED> amd 64 dapper_flight5 .torrent ok
[04:57] <oRED> hehe
[04:58] <robotgeek> oRED: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-5
[04:58] <oRED> robotgeek its broken, the link for dapper 64 .torrent
[04:59] <robotgeek> oRED: what do you mean broken? it works for me
[04:59] <robotgeek> oRED: the torrent file, i.e
[05:00] <oRED> [robotgeek] : when try to download it, comes the iso file note the torrent file
[05:00] <oRED> [robotgeek] : when try to download it, comes the iso file not the torrent file
[05:01] <robotgeek> oRED: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-5/dapper-install-amd64.iso.torrent
[05:01] <oRED> robotgeek its broken
[05:02] <robotgeek> oRED: it downloads the torrent file for me, i don't know what you are talking about
[05:02] <oRED> robotgeek can you send the torrent for me?
[05:02] <oRED> it is about 50kb
[05:03] <robotgeek> oRED: are you saying that it doesn't download for you?
[05:04] <oRED> robotgeek sorry for my english
[05:04] <oRED> robotgeek i'm saying that it points to the .iso file
[05:05] <robotgeek> oRED: no, it doesn't
[05:05] <oRED> robotgeek it begins downloading the iso and not the torrent
[05:05] <robotgeek> oRED: no, it just downloads the torrent, no the iso.
[05:05] <oRED> robotgeek could you please download it for me and send me it
[05:06] <robotgeek> oRED: http://rapidshare.de/files/15572683/dapper-install-amd64.iso.torrent.html
[05:07] <oRED> robotgeek now it works! thanks a lot!!!
[05:08] <oRED> but as I said, this link before points to the .iso file
[05:08] <robotgeek> oRED: that is the point of a torrent file
[05:10] <oRED> [robotgeek] : but that link should point me the .torrent
[05:10] <oRED> so I could use my torrent client to download it
[05:10] <robotgeek> oRED: it does point to the torrent
[05:10] <oRED> not here
[05:11] <oRED> my firefox begins downloading the .iso
[05:11] <oRED> who haves 656mb
[05:11] <oRED> or something like
[05:13] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:13] <Seveas> moo
[05:14] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:14] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[05:15] <Seveas> moo
[05:15] <Seveas> @quit
[05:15] <Seveas> absolute madness
[05:18] <sivang> @more
[05:18] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:18] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:19] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:29] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:29] <Seveas> now to get the funkiness going
[05:34] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:34] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:34] <Seveas> @load WebCal
[05:34] <Seveas> @load WebCal
[05:34] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[05:35] <Seveas> @quit
[05:36] <Seveas> @topic
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[05:37] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:37] <Seveas> @topic
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[05:37] <xhaker> Hooch is crazy.. or should i say.. Ubungtu
[05:37] <Seveas> hehe
[05:37] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:38] <Seveas> @topic
[05:38] <Seveas> @topiv
[05:38] <Seveas> @topic
[05:39] <Seveas> now to find out how bad my code is
[05:39] <Seveas> very.
[05:39] <xhaker> Ubugtu is coded in which language?
[05:40] <Seveas> python
[05:40] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:41] <Seveas> gnaa
[05:41] <Seveas> can't get the timer part right
[05:42] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:42] <Seveas> grr
[05:43] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:43] <Seveas> interesting
[05:44] <Seveas> supybot gets wedged it seems
[05:45] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:45] <Seveas> mo
[05:46] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:46] <Seveas> nle
[05:47] <Seveas> odd, the crapy thing gets completely wedged :/
[05:47] <Seveas> @topic
[05:47] <Seveas> @topic
[05:58] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[05:58] <Seveas> @topic
[06:02] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[06:02] <Seveas> sivang --^
[06:04] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[06:29] <sivang> Seveas: where does it say the current meeting?
[06:30] <Seveas> That's not yet implemented
[06:30] <Seveas> it's not all that obvious either
[06:31] <Seveas> I'm thinking about a 5-min timer that sets the current meeting 10 minutes before the start and removes it 30 minutes past the end
[06:33] <Seveas> but first time to make dinner
[06:35] <MarioMeyer> :P Seveas is having some fun w/ his supybot today.. :P
[06:41] <dAndy> Seveas: using twisted?
[06:46] <Seveas> dAndy, yeah
[06:47] <Seveas> @config drivers.module
[06:47] <Ubugtu> twistedDrivers
[06:59] <sivang> Seveas: yes, I also made to prepare dinner
[06:59] <sivang> Seveas: cool, this makes much more sense that what I said
[07:02] <fstat> hello
[07:02] <fstat> can anyone help me with a little post-installation prob. I have?
[07:03] <Seveas> not in here - this is a meeting channel. #ubuntu is for support
[08:05] <sabdfl> Kamion: ping
[08:05] <sabdfl> mako: ping
[08:13] <Kamion> sabdfl: hi, here now
[08:15] <sabdfl> alrighty
[08:15] <sabdfl> Keybuk: ping
[08:15] <sabdfl> mjg59: ping
[08:15] <mjg59> sabdfl: Hi
[08:15] <mdz> ok
[08:15] <Keybuk> sabdfl: present
[08:15] <sabdfl> great, that's TB + CC sans mako, right?
[08:16] <Keybuk> elmo is here?
[08:16] <sabdfl> can we circle around and get final +1, -1 and dates views on the delay proposal?
[08:16] <sabdfl> elmo's *here*
[08:16] <mdz> elmo is here
[08:16] <sabdfl> tried to reach mako
[08:16] <Kamion> can we have a summary of the TB's provisional decisions from last night's meeting, please?
[08:16] <sabdfl> not much notice, but did try to reach him
[08:16] <Keybuk> last night at the TB we drew up:
[08:16] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
[08:17] <Keybuk> as requested on the agenda
[08:17] <mdz> I read over the log
[08:17] <Keybuk> this was a provisional schedule proposal based on a 6-week slip
[08:17] <mdz> and you were considering the same sorts of things that I was
[08:17] <mjg59> As far as the documentation freeze goes, we're keen on knowing what the doc team think
[08:17] <Keybuk> it moves BetaRelease to the April 20th date previously given to FinalRelease
[08:17] <Keybuk> (so 5 weeks until Beta)
[08:17] <sabdfl> looks good, beta goes back 4 week,s release 6
[08:17] <Keybuk> and places FinalRelease on June 1st
[08:18] <mdz> I'm happy with the slewed schedule as it stands
[08:18] <Keybuk> Beta goes back 5, Release 5
[08:18] <Kamion> I'm content with the slewed schedule
[08:18] <Keybuk> March has a cunning 5th week, just to surprise you <g>
[08:18] <elmo> Maybe May 31st would be better on a lame psychological level?
[08:18] <mdz> sneaky
[08:18] <sabdfl> good idea to get signoff on doc freeze from them, i don't think that affects anyone else
[08:18] <elmo> then it's 2006.05 rathenr than 2006.06
[08:18] <mdz> elmo is channeling silbs
[08:18] <sabdfl> elmo: mad s/6.05/6.06/run on the 31st...
[08:18] <Keybuk> elmo: May 31st would get timezone arguments about whether it was 05 or 06 depending on how much time it took to prepare -- at least declaring it 06 is safer
[08:19] <Kamion> May 30th would be an alternative
[08:19] <Keybuk> plus gives us a headache if it slips a day, as we'd have to sed the entire thing
[08:19] <Kamion> which is a Tuesday
[08:19] <Kamion> I think I prefer releasing later in the week though
[08:19] <Kamion> more concentrated time right beforehand for testing
[08:19] <sabdfl> thursday?
[08:20] <Kamion> 1st June's a Thursday
[08:20] <Kamion> Thu is fine by me, we've done that before and it leaves us a day of the work week in case it goes tits-up
[08:20] <mdz> thursday is what we have been doing and it works well
[08:20] <sabdfl> any other thoughts? or +1 -1 on 1 June 200*6*
[08:21] <mdz> +1
[08:21] <elmo> 0 because I'm still half channeling silbds
[08:21] <Keybuk> there's a question about what we do with the extra time;  I have an INBOX full of screaming demands for Network Manager 0.6 to support WPA -- is that the kind of thing that's valid or exempt for the extra time?
[08:22] <Keybuk> (my reason for not doing the update so far was simply "not enough time to test before release")
[08:22] <Kamion> +0; I'm still concerned about the Parkinson's Law effect that pushing the freeze back is demonstrably having (see Keybuk's question), but I'm mollified by (a) extra time to keep the troops in line (b) sane-sounding plans for a short dapper+1 release
[08:22] <sabdfl> Keybuk: we can discuss exceptions, i've discussed that one with mdz
[08:22] <mdz> and I mailed Keybuk earlier today about it
[08:23] <sabdfl> ok
[08:23] <Keybuk> the question's still valid though ... if I reword it slightly -- what will we use the extra time for?
[08:23] <sabdfl> on my list of please-pleases are X fallback for live cd install sanity, WPA, and [NM]
[08:23] <Keybuk> I wasn't aware that dapper was in a "bad state" of buggyness
[08:23] <sabdfl> that's IT
[08:23] <mdz> Keybuk: this was outlined in sabdfl's email proposing a delay
[08:24] <mdz> sabdfl: dude, you forgot localization
[08:24] <mjg59> We have the minor problem that X, well, doesn't work
[08:24] <sabdfl> i do't mind if WPA is done by community without NM
[08:24] <Seveas> (WPA+NM needs driver patches too)
[08:24] <Mithrandir> WPA in general does work without NM, though
[08:24] <Keybuk> are we likely to send people through the bug tracking system, with a "you must triage N bugs a day" kind of work?  or it is just "6 more weeks of whatever you're doing now?"
[08:24] <mdz> can we not have the WPA discussion right now?
[08:24] <Seveas> sorry
[08:25] <mdz> we're not here to debate new dapper features
[08:25] <sabdfl> lets just say "lots more bug work" than how it will happen, mdz's call
[08:25] <Kamion> I had a question last night which I'm not sure was answered
[08:25] <Kamion> (can't remember)
[08:25] <sabdfl> long day, kamion :-)
[08:25] <Kamion> are we planning to explicitly allocate developer time to trawling through parts of the bug system that they would not ordinarily visit (i.e. outside their usual package maintenance) to add general bug-fixing polish?
[08:26] <Kamion> we haven't really been doing that since warty/hoary or so, and I think it shows in some places
[08:26] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[08:26] <Kamion> ok, thanks, quick answer :)
[08:26] <sabdfl> TB call IMO
[08:26] <mjg59> That suits me. I'm going to have little time over the next few weeks (possibly months)
[08:26] <mdz> mjg59: we seem to have a number of interesting laptop-related bugs...
[08:27] <mdz> any other questions from TB or CC members?
[08:27] <mjg59> mdz: Yes. I'm entirely unable to keep on top of them right now.
[08:27] <Keybuk> from me, a 0 if it's just a 6 week delay;  a +1 if time and effort is deliberately spent to mine malone for bugs; and blow the dust off those that have sat unconfirmed for too long
[08:27] <OverCraft> hello
[08:27] <mjg59> I'm with keybuk on this
[08:27] <mdz> OverCraft: there is a meeting in progress
[08:28] <sabdfl> +1 on dedicated bug time
[08:28] <sabdfl> perhaps that shoudl go in the schedule?
[08:28] <Keybuk> a delay on its own pretty much balances for positives and negatives;  a delay to do something new like that would be a good thing I think
[08:28] <mjg59> Providing the time does actually go into ensuring that we have a better distribution, I'll go with that
[08:28] <sabdfl> 2 weeks, three weeks?
[08:28] <mjg59> Bug fixing time doesn't impact on the dates of the documentation freezes, right?
[08:29] <Kamion> bug fixing would have to respect freezes
[08:29] <mjg59> Leaving a bigger gap between doc freeze and release gives more time for translations
[08:29] <Kamion> if it gets into major documentable changes or string changes or UI changes or what have you, it'd be subject to those
[08:29] <mjg59> But I'd still like to hear more from the doc team and translaters
[08:29] <sabdfl> i think the "mark works on foundation business with cell phone and irc switched off so no new requests can be made" phase can be explicit in the schedule
[08:30] <Kamion> the current slewed schedule is the same as the old one in that regard, right?
[08:30] <mdz> I'd rather not debate the specifics of the release schedule; that's not TB+CC sort of material
[08:30] <sabdfl> +1 from me on the slewed schedule, with TB free to work out specifics
[08:30] <mdz> +1 exactly
[08:31] <mjg59> Ok
[08:31] <sabdfl> so we have:
[08:31] <sabdfl>   mdz +1
[08:31] <sabdfl>  keybuk +1
[08:31] <sabdfl>   mjg59 +1
[08:31] <sabdfl>  elmo 0
[08:31] <sabdfl>  sabdfl +1
[08:31] <sabdfl>  kamion +1
[08:31] <Kamion> (erm, +0
[08:31] <Kamion> )
[08:31] <sabdfl> some with caveats on dedicated cleanup and bug time
[08:31] <mdz> last I saw was +0 from Kamion
[08:31] <sabdfl> sorry, kamion +0
[08:31] <Kamion> but even so, that's 4/7, no negatives so far
[08:32] <sabdfl> anything we can do to tip the 0's in favour?
[08:32] <Kamion> my reading of mako's position last night was generally positive, though don't want to put words into his mouth
[08:32] <elmo> I'll de-channel and revote as +1
[08:32] <mdz> we can exorcise Jane from elmo
[08:32] <sabdfl> vague sounds of "...you all" waft in the air
[08:33] <Kamion> I can lean towards Keybuk's position on deliberately mining for bugs; my remaining concern is burnout due to extended crunch-mode for release
[08:33] <Keybuk> (says the guy buggering off to debconf for two of the weeks <g>)
[08:33] <Kamion> that was somewhat addressed last night, though; I think we'll need to acknowledge that we will get more like four weeks' extra work than six
[08:33] <Kamion> if that's acceptable, then +1
[08:34] <sabdfl> kamion: what about a long weekend (3 days) over debconf for everyone
[08:34] <sabdfl> dedicated R&R time
[08:34] <Kamion> we've done that before (warty preview release, right?) and it worked well
[08:35] <sabdfl> ok, let's do that
[08:35] <Kamion> hopefully we can make the beta release not take too much time and energy; we're getting better at these
[08:35] <Keybuk> when is debconf week?
[08:36] <sabdfl> ban * form #canonical and related channels
[08:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: May 14th-22nd
[08:36] <sabdfl> it would be better, sooner
[08:36] <sabdfl> folkswere aiming to peak mid-April
[08:36] <Kamion> how about shortly after the beta, then?
[08:36] <sabdfl> fine by me
[08:36] <sabdfl> after beta flood is handled
[08:37] <Kamion> right
[08:37] <sabdfl> distro team only?
[08:37] <Keybuk> April 14-16 ?  that means freeze, relax, fix bugs next week before Release
[08:37] <mdz_> that'd be the weekend after RC
[08:38] <mdz_> er, where RC would have been...
[08:38] <mdz_> probably the last pre-beta Flight that week
[08:38] <sabdfl> ok, can TB settle this?
[08:38] <sabdfl> kamion, do we get +1?
[08:38] <Kamion> I think I'm persuaded, yes
[08:38] <Kamion> +1
[08:39] <sabdfl> i've agreed to the time off for canonical distro team, up to TB to decide when that will have best effect
[08:39] <Kamion> 6/7, no mako
[08:39] <sabdfl> ok
[08:39] <elmo> shall I try channeling mako?
[08:39] <sabdfl> thank you! i'm very sorry not to have called the original schedule better, and i really appreciate your support on this
[08:39] <Kamion> elmo: go on, it'll be funny
[08:39] <sabdfl> Kamion: if you could only hear
[08:40] <Kamion> who'll put together the announcement? we should do that quickly, since the word will be getting out soon enough anyway
[08:40] <mdz_> sabdfl: I think I get to take credit for that error, actually
[08:40] <sabdfl> shared grief
[08:40] <sabdfl> ok, we know for next time we do an LS release
[08:40] <xhaker> LS?
[08:40] <sabdfl> i'll draft something up tomorrow and circle it round CC/TB?
[08:40] <sabdfl> "long support"
[08:40] <mdz_> ok
[08:40] <Kamion> xhaker: long-term support, or some such
[08:40] <mjg59> Ok
[08:40] <Keybuk> isn't LS the badge they put on the back of the cheap and nasty Ford Escorts? :)
[08:41] <sivang> lol
[08:41] <sabdfl> Keybuk: you'd know
[08:41] <Kamion> sabdfl: works for me
[08:41] <sabdfl> ok. well handled and thanks for the very good process
[08:41] <mdz_> good night, ubuntuland
[08:41] <sabdfl> we're there yet
[08:42] <sabdfl> Keybuk: ^^
[08:42] <Keybuk> ??
[08:42] <sabdfl> "are we there yet"-ster
[08:42] <sabdfl> night all
[08:42] <Keybuk> g'nite
[08:43] <ogra> mdz_, night
[08:43] <xhaker> sivang: you slacker, you dislike meetings?
[08:43] <Seveas> no, sivang wants to pla with Ubugtu :
[08:43] <sivang> hehe
[08:44] <Seveas> anyway, now the meeting is over I'll work on your feature request
[08:44] <sivang> xhaker: not at all, but I'm working in the background and it's hard to hack while trying to keep track :)
[08:44] <sivang> Seveas: yay!!
[08:44] <Seveas> unfortunately I have to test in here
[08:44] <sivang> Seveas: I owe you a beer when we meet
[08:45] <Seveas> hehe
[08:45] <xhaker> by the way call 6-10 (Edgy Eagle) - and say it like Zach Braff does on Scrubs
[08:45] <Seveas> Edgy Elephant
[08:45] <xhaker> Seveas: i want that ascii
[08:45] <Seveas> because it'll be heavy
[08:46] <xhaker> Edgy Elephant was my gf bet :(
[08:46] <spacey> is it that heavy weight?
[08:46] <Seveas> I'll merge my wikipage with names with the Ubuntu wiki soon
[08:46] <xhaker> bbl folks
[08:46] <spacey> my favourite is still wifebeater wombat
[08:47] <spacey> but i guess that one will never make it :p
[08:48] <zorba64> Edgy Emu?
[09:05] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[09:05] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:05] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[09:05] <Seveas> @reload WebCal
[09:05] <Seveas> @load WebCal
[09:05] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:06] <Seveas> @quit
[09:07] <Seveas> @webcal
[09:08] <Ubugtu> (webcal <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Webcal plugin. Use 'list Webcal' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Webcal' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's command to use.
[09:33] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:33] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:33] <Seveas> @topic
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:34] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:34] <Seveas> @topic
[09:34] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:35] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:35] <Seveas> @topic
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:39] <Stormx2> @list Webcal
[09:44] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:44] <Seveas> @topic
[09:44] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> Seveas: can we whine at you to test in an empty channel, or is that painful?
[09:47] <Seveas> yeah, then i'd have to shuffle lots f code around
[09:47] <Seveas> I've been testing the parts that don't require this channel elsewhere
[09:47] <Seveas> (you wouldn't want to see that place)
[09:48] <Mithrandir> heh, ok.
[09:48] <Seveas> there are some evil quirks in supybot
[09:50] <Bonzodog> supybot is fun...I have one in another channel
[09:50] <Seveas> it's quite nice
[09:51] <Bonzodog> I have a friend who wrote her own bot
[09:52] <Bonzodog> for IRC
[09:52] <Qball> her?
[09:52] <Qball> that doesn't often happen.
[09:52] <Bonzodog> yup, a female hardcore unix geek
[09:52] <Bonzodog> she uses a Sparc as her home computer
[09:52] <Qball> hmmmmm damn where can I find those.
[09:53] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:53] <Seveas> @topic
[09:53] <Qball> @reload gf-finder
[09:53] <Seveas> urgh
[09:53] <Seveas> bad...
[09:54] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:54] <Seveas> @topic
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:54] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:54] <Seveas> @topic
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:54] <Qball> @topic
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:54] <Qball> @topic
[09:54] <Qball> @topic
[09:54] <Qball> @topic
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:54] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:55] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:55] <Seveas> @topic
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:56] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:56] <Seveas> @topic
[09:56] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[09:57] <Seveas> aaaaaaaaargh stupid bot
[09:58] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[09:58] <Seveas> @topic
[09:58] <Seveas> nice
[09:58] <Seveas> very nice even
[09:59] <Seveas> Had to throw in a lambda
[09:59] <Seveas> Ubugtu, what the hell?
[10:00] <xhaker> it's autonomous now
[10:00] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.template
[10:00] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic
[10:00] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
[10:03] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[10:05] <Seveas> @topic
[10:05] <Seveas> weird
[10:05] <Seveas> it uses the SAME function to determine the new topic
[10:07] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[10:07] <Seveas> case sensitivity--
[10:18] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[10:34] <ubijtsa> Seveas: a lambda?


[10:02] <CIA-61> console-setup: cjwatson * r88 ubuntu/ (Keyboard/ckbcomp debian/changelog):
[10:02] <CIA-61> console-setup: Set plain or shifted PrintScreen key to generate VoidSymbol rather than
[10:02] <CIA-61> console-setup: Ctrl-backslash (LP: #279973).
[10:11] <CIA-61> console-setup: cjwatson * r89 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.28ubuntu4
[12:29] <cjwatson> kirkland: should bug 120375 still have hardy tasks open, given that it seems to have been addressed in bug 290885? (I'm trying to clean up the 8.04.2 bug list a bit)
[14:49] <kirkland> cjwatson: hi there, welcome back...  120375 should be done.  i'm closing it now.
[14:49] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
[14:50] <kirkland> cjwatson: the server guide documentation for hardy should be fixed though, as one needs to run grub-install manually on /dev/md0 to get the bootloader installed on both disks
[14:50] <cjwatson> server guide rather than installation guide?
[14:51] <cjwatson> I assume in the installer it Just Works
[14:51] <kirkland> cjwatson: correct
[14:51] <kirkland> cjwatson: only an issue on upgrades
[14:51] <cjwatson> ok, I've never touched the server guide myself :)
[14:51] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'll take care of it
[14:52] <kirkland> cjwatson: you might enjoy this ...  http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-mej0A6dVeU/SUXo_OoBNwI/AAAAAAAAALk/OgleC83i6_Q/s1600-h/ubuntu.png
[14:53] <kirkland> cjwatson: i created a new package, screen-profiles, with a couple of advanced screenrc profiles, and a "select-screen-profile" binary
[14:53] <cjwatson> yow, bright :)
[14:53] <kirkland> cjwatson: full blog post at http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/12/ubuntu-server-includes-window-manager.html
[14:53] <kirkland> cjwatson: if you've got any neat "screen hacks" you're willing to share, ping me at some point about them :-)
[14:54] <cjwatson> the only interesting thing in mine is:
[14:54] <cjwatson> bind d eval 'exec keychain --quiet --clear' detach
[14:54] <cjwatson> bind ^d eval 'exec keychain --quiet --clear' detach
[14:54] <kirkland> oh, that's a good one
[14:54] <cjwatson> i.e. clear cached ssh/gpg tokens on detach
[14:54] <kirkland> yeah, totally
[14:55] <cjwatson> keychain is pretty slow to start up though - I'd prefer a saner reimplementation if anyone had one
[15:11] <kirkland> cjwatson: it's a good idea, i'll add it to my list
[15:11] <kirkland> cjwatson: comments are flowing into that blog with some really good ideas
[20:36] <Ahmuck> hi.  i'm interested in discussing some installer enhancements for the user
[20:36] <Ahmuck> if anybody is interested in listening
[20:49] <evand> cjwatson: What are your thoughts on maximizing ubiquity by default, and on the Install Ubuntu option fullscreening it?  My reasoning is that in some places you benefit from more space but it isn't immediately apparent, such as the partitioning page and timezone map especially.
[20:49] <evand> I mentioned this a few times at UDS and people seemed to be positive towards the idea.
[20:50] <Ahmuck> mazimizing ?
[20:51] <Ahmuck> k, i'll repeat some of my questions here.  a unified installer for both the alternate and the gui based installs would be nice.  currently under the alternate, you enter info, it does it's thingy, and then you do more info entry.  the gui install only asks for info once and then completes the install
[20:52] <evand> can you elaborate on what you mean by unified?
[20:52] <Ahmuck> secondly, is there a way to get the install to check the repository for updates and install the updates rather than the cd while installing?  this would save having to do it later.  or at least as an option
[20:52] <Ahmuck> evand: the same
[20:52] <Ahmuck> so the install process is the same
[20:53] <Ahmuck> iirc, the alternate asks for x info in the beginning and y info towards the end
[20:54] <evand> Ahmuck: what information is it asking you after installing packages?
[20:55] <Ahmuck> hrm, i'd have to go through an install and screenshot it, but i'd be willing if i thought i could get the order changed
[20:55] <Ahmuck> or at least have someone look at it
[20:55] <evand> I'm just curious.  My understanding was that it's been a long long time since you had a stage two to the alternate CD
[20:55] <Ahmuck> er, consider looking at it?  let me get some screenshots togather
[20:56] <Ahmuck> evand: long time?  as in 8.04.1 ?
[20:56] <Ahmuck> hrm, let me do a test in a vm and see
[20:56] <evand> 8.04.1 is already out
[21:48] <cjwatson> evand: early on, Mark explicitly asked for it not to be maximised so that people would be encouraged to use facilities of the live CD as well. I think it would be fine to full-screen it in only-ubiquity mode, though
[21:49] <cjwatson> Ahmuck: yes, it does ask for some things later, and we have been gradually working on moving them back. However for a variety of reasons this will *not* consist of a "unified installer" (at least not significantly more than it does right now; they do share quite a bit of code)
[21:49] <evand> ok, noted
[21:50] <cjwatson> Ahmuck: checking the repository for updates is one of those things where we can't win; some people want it one way and some the other. Could you file a bug on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug to have it switchable, though? I think that would be a good idea.
[21:51] <chorn> I'm having an issue with kernelparms being ignored as bootcd/installer options.  Is that a question for here or in #ubuntu-kernel ?
[21:51] <cjwatson> chorn: depends which parameters
[21:51] <chorn> rootdelay
[21:51] <chorn> as long as i have rootdelay=360 or so it should work fine
[21:52] <chorn> but it's not having any effect
[21:53] <cjwatson> chorn: so, firstly, I assume you aren't talking about the server/alternate installer, whose initrd pays no attention to rootdelay
[21:53] <cjwatson> chorn: apart from that, rootdelay= appears to be parsed by initramfs-tools, using this code:
[21:54] <cjwatson>         rootdelay=*)
[21:54] <cjwatson>                 ROOTDELAY="${x#rootdelay=}"
[21:54] <cjwatson>                 case ${ROOTDELAY} in
[21:54] <cjwatson>                 *[![:digit:].]*)
[21:54] <cjwatson>                         ROOTDELAY=
[21:54] <cjwatson>                         ;;
[21:54] <cjwatson>                 esac
[21:54] <cjwatson>                 ;;
[21:54] <chorn> right, this is a stock 8.10 desktop
[21:54] <cjwatson> now, that code seems to do the right thing when I run it by hand
[21:55] <Ahmuck> recently someone asked me to try fedora, and the fedora installs very quickly.  it appears to "copy" the live cd over.  is there a way to speed up the ubuntu installer?
[21:55] <cjwatson> chorn: I would suggest booting with 'debug=console rootdelay=360' to see if the extra trace output clarifies anything
[21:55] <cjwatson> Ahmuck: that's exactly what the Ubuntu live CD installer does
[21:55] <chorn> something isn't quite right with it, i had a dapper server install working on it w/ just rootdelay as a tweak
[21:55] <cjwatson> Ahmuck: we can't do that with the alternate installer because that would remove precisely the flexibility that is the *point* of the alternate installer
[21:56] <Ahmuck> cjwatson: i haven't run test times yet
[21:56] <chorn> I have not tried debug=console!
[21:56] <Ahmuck> well, in the live cd, i was comparing install times
[21:56] <cjwatson> I haven't heard anyone else object to the speed of the Ubuntu live CD's installer, I must say
[21:57] <cjwatson> there can sometimes be problems if our kernel puts the CD drive into the wrong mode or something
[21:57] <cjwatson> chorn: make sure to put debug= before rootdelay= or else it won't debug the parsing of rootdelay= itself ...
[21:57] <Ahmuck> cjwatson: thx for the reply on the unified installation.  i assume the code is too different to allow for a more unified installer.  i was really looking at it from a user's perspective, and having them both ask the same questions at the same point in the install
[21:57] <chorn> done, waiting for busybox
[22:00] <cjwatson> Ahmuck: yeah, again we can't make them identical without removing some of the flexibility that the alternate installer needs to deliver
[22:00] <Ahmuck> ah, ok
[22:09] <cjwatson> there are some cases where we've avoided questions after copying packages (which, in the alternate installer, would go after the base system is installed or after bulk package installation - basically things that require software to be installed in the target system before they can even decide which questions to ask!) in the live CD installer simply by removing configurability
[22:10] <cjwatson> there are a lot of trade-offs involved ...
[22:10] <cjwatson> I'd like to pull the questions involved in configuring apt earlier, though
[22:10] <cjwatson> that's feasible, it's just that nobody's done the work yet
[22:11] <cjwatson> if you compare with warty you'll notice a fairly big difference in how early questions are asked ;-)
[22:17] <chorn> hrm
[22:18] <chorn> ROOTDELAY='300'
[22:18] <chorn> but it isn't actually doing it
[22:18] <chorn> i can put in rootdelay=2000 and it's the same
[22:18] <cjwatson> it should get passed as a timeout to usplash_write
[22:18] <cjwatson> and it should affect the loop timeout
[22:19] <cjwatson> try without the splash argument so that you can see better
[22:19] <chorn> i remove quiet and splash
[22:19] <cjwatson> you aren't using boot=<anything>?
[22:19] <chorn> nope
[22:19] <cjwatson> I'm looking at /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local here
[22:19] <cjwatson> you might want to do the same
[22:19]  * cjwatson goes to change baby
[22:19] <chorn> k!
[22:35] <chorn> odd, dmesg | more in busybox doesn't do anything
[22:38] <chorn> thanks for the help, i'm going to leave this until tomorrow
[22:40] <cjwatson> wow, my daughter is such a drama queen :)
[22:40] <cjwatson> right
[22:40] <cjwatson> you can try just 'debug' and then look in /tmp/initramfs.debug if you prefer that to a console dump
[22:41] <cjwatson> (don't ask me, I didn't design the parameters ...)
[22:41] <cjwatson> in 9.04 I moved it to /dev/.initramfs/initramfs.debug so that it can be available after boot if the system gets that far
[22:50] <chorn> I see "Begin: Mounting root filesystem... ..."
[22:50] <chorn> but i don't find that string in my current server's initramfs-tools
[22:51] <chorn> ah, it's in init
[22:53] <chorn> and i'm guessing /scripts/casper is only for the installer
[22:53] <chorn> my server only has casper-premount
[23:10] <cjwatson> oh, maybe scripts/casper doesn't implement rootdelay
[23:10] <cjwatson> yeah, apparently not
[23:29] <chorn> hrm
[23:29] <chorn> is there any reason it shouldn't?


[07:44] <zniavre> good morning
[07:44] <knome> morning
[08:05] <zniavre> is it thinkable (now we get rounded menus and all) to get text zone rounded too ?
[08:19] <thorwil> vish: to my understanding, in gtk there is only one set of states regarding how a button is rendered. that means prelight is exclusive, can't be combined with either on or off
[08:20] <vish> thorwil: yup , wasnt that what i said too   :)
[08:20] <vish> thorwil: something new needs to be done in murrine to differentiate the two forms of prelight
[08:21] <vish> meh , i dont expect Cimi would fix it though ;p
[08:21] <thorwil> vish: that would be the workaround. the real solution would be to get some sense into gtk
[08:22] <vish> thorwil: ha , even tougher to change something in gtk  ;)
[09:02] <knome> hey thorwil :) you going to come to london on Wed?
[11:33] <thorwil> http://cache1.emptees.com/images/118011/emptees_ninja.jpg
[17:36] <troy_s> thorwil: What's up Thor?
[17:37] <thorwil> troy_s: huge empty space with some free floating oranges. ice bears are dancing on them
[17:38] <troy_s> thorwil: Cool.
[17:38] <troy_s> thorwil: I'd sprinkle some blue in there.
[17:38] <thorwil> troy_s: that's amazing, as the empty space is actually dark blue
[17:38] <troy_s> thorwil: Any interesting news?
[17:38] <troy_s> thorwil: I'm pzyschic.
[17:38] <thorwil> troy_s: nope
[17:39] <troy_s> thorwil: Actually, there is an interesting new study. They gave Paracetum Inkscape and they cranked out a GNOME 3 theme.
[17:42]  * thorwil has to look up paracetum
[17:43] <thorwil> troy_s: 272 hits. misspelled such that google doesn't offer the right way?
[17:43] <troy_s> thorwil: LOL. Yes indeed. Bacteria.
[17:45] <thorwil> troy_s: bacteria do design by amoeba? ;)
[17:57] <thorwil> http://www.walkingdead.net/perl/euphemism
[18:00] <thorwil> troy_s: seems i decided to start my company in estonia/finland: http://www.thorwil.com/
[18:01] <troy_s> Oh what luck.
[18:01] <troy_s> thorwil: You are a building company.
[18:01] <troy_s> thorwil: How cool.
[18:01]  * thorwil goes hunting for dinner and hopes it won't move too much
[18:33] <thorwil> plop
[18:35] <thorwil> troy_s: i'm actually aware of that since years. i think it even used to show up on a google search, but i buried them
[18:43] <thorwil> Equiet: just saw over in gnome-design that there's an in-progress ruby-on-rails implementation of Mairin's design-hub-kinda-thing
[18:44] <Equiet> thorwil: I have already seen that.
[18:45] <Equiet> Hopefully, they will at least notice my proposal.
[19:13] <thorwil> http://www.uie.com/articles/critique/
[19:26] <kwwii> thorwil: nice
[19:35] <knome> hey kwwii ;)
[19:36] <kwwii> hi knome
[19:42] <thorwil> in a bit less than 20 minutes, there will be the EMEA membership board meeting in #ubuntu-meeting. guess who will be a topic :)
[20:22] <troy_s> thorwil: You get it?
[20:22] <knome> thorwil, ping! :)
[20:22] <knome> thorwil, i'll be there to cheer for you.
[20:23] <knome> troy_s, they're only just starting the meeting
[20:23] <thorwil> knome: cool, ty
[20:27] <knome> thorwil, congrats :)
[20:27] <thorwil> thanks, knome, troy_s
[20:27] <troy_s> Woop
[20:34] <knome> thorwil, Investigate the use of the Google App Engine to write a tool that helps with selecting wallpapers from the Flickr pool (Flickr itself lacks features that would make this a lot easier)
[20:34] <knome> thorwil, what would that mean?
[20:35] <thorwil> knome: last time we had several of the design team and 3 community members going through the submissions
[20:35] <thorwil> troy_s was one of them
[20:35] <knome> thorwil, yeah? so how should that be easier?
[20:35] <troy_s> thorwil: I was just cheering the result.
[20:36] <troy_s> thorwil: I am not an Ubuntu member and have no such aspirations. I am just happy to see you get something you desire.
[20:36] <thorwil> knome: to invite submissions to another flickr group. that was the shortlist
[20:36] <troy_s> thorwil: And uh yes... I doubt I shall be extended that role this time around :)
[20:37] <knome> thorwil, okay. wouldn't the flickr api make that readily possible?
[20:37] <thorwil> troy_s: i just called you a community member in that context :)
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: I actually have some seriously deep issues with the whole fscking contest crap anyways, and it is about time I focus on standing by them.
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: No - I know you know. I just wanted to be clear. :)
[20:37] <troy_s> Never fear... they shall continue.
[20:38] <thorwil> knome: what i wanted to explain: even building that shortlist required what is basically a hack
[20:38] <knome> thorwil, umh, okay
[20:38] <knome> thorwil, so you'd like to be able to...?
[20:38] <thorwil> knome: plus no possibility to search for license within the pool
[20:38] <troy_s> thorwil: The _proper_ approach that works for just about everyone with a browser would be to use montage.
[20:39] <knome> troy_s, i don't know about pools, but you can use http://compfight.com/ to search by license
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: As in explicitly bind all of them to a licence on pushing (Launchpad does this)
[20:39] <knome> thorwil, ^
[20:39] <knome> thorwil, probably if you search by the pool name, you'll get the pool results
[20:39] <thorwil> knome: simply marking of images to add them to the shortlist
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: And have a backend script run that pulls in the work, montages the results, and provides a SINGLE jpg image of the thumbnails that is easily viewable on the wiki.
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: No need for extra crap.
[20:39] <thorwil> knome: having the results of all participants collected an shown on a page
[20:39] <knome> thorwil, should the shortlist be something that would have to be on flickr?
[20:40] <troy_s> knome: Problem isn't license searching - it is providing of work with a license explicitly stated.
[20:40] <thorwil> knome: no
[20:40] <troy_s> knome: That _must_ be _forced_ at the very first click.
[20:40] <vish> damn it! i missed it :/  i wanted to -1 thorwil  ;p     stupid movie had me distracted..
[20:40] <troy_s> knome: Many don't get licenses and don't care.
[20:40] <thorwil> vish: heh, thanks nonetheless
[20:40] <vish> thorwil: yay , congrats , we both are back to back :D
[20:41] <troy_s> vish: How goes Manual?
[20:41] <vish> no pun intended ;)
[20:41] <vish> troy_s: its a bit on hold lately
[20:41] <knome> troy_s, yeah..
[20:42] <troy_s> vish: That's stinky.
[20:42] <troy_s> knome: First up, before _any_ evaluation, needs to be the highest level stop measure - license.
[20:42] <troy_s> knome: From there, you can bicker and wander aimlessly for empty terms such as 'professional', 'beautiful', 'ugly', etc.
[20:43] <knome> ;)
[20:44] <troy_s> knome: Although I'd probably suggest that a second level filter would be raw image quality in terms of pixel resolution. From there it gets into abstract things about quality of sensor (Yellow / Magenta spectrum dispersion off of the sensor micro-lenses or RGB dispersion off of the lens)
[20:44] <knome> troy_s, okay
[20:44] <troy_s> knome: But license is obviously the first blocker.
[20:44] <thorwil> knome: while i do see all the same issues troy_s mentions, i'm more willing to make the 70% solution happen instead of going all or nothing :)
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: As I was saying though - you can pretty much avoid all of that if someone figures out some sort of attachment system for bzr.
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Because I know for certain that explicit license issue is already present.
[20:45] <knome> thorwil, hehe, okay :)
[20:46] <thorwil> troy_s: yes and no. there could be much better infrastructure. but flickr is so widely known, it adds pull
[20:47] <troy_s> thorwil: Weigh it out. A web interface is all that is required. Seems to me that Flickr, for all of the upside, makes for chasing after people after-the-fact. No high resolution uploads, same issues of CC, etc.
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: But I doubt anyone has prioritised the _needs_ of such a system before they head out and start pushing pixels around showing off mock ups.
[20:48] <thorwil> troy_s: there's a lot in my head about that and it's almost all architecture, not layouts ;)
[20:49] <troy_s> thorwil: I would hope that anyone interested would be able to load a webpage.
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: I don't know exactly what Flickr brings to the table other than 'Oh I know Flickr'... maybe existing hobby photographers?
[20:50] <thorwil> troy_s: many people already having an account is quite a big thing
[20:51] <thorwil> troy_s: of course lowering the hurdles also means you see much that can't be serious
[20:53] <thorwil> troy_s: even if there's not a single photo in the pool where you'd say it is all that i should be, i still think the outcome of last round was one of the best things happening in ubuntu-artwork. don't forget that people seem to enjoy it
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Yeah I don't really know where I sit on that. It ultimately will distill down to the "Who is picking" and that really can make all of the contest rubbish moot when there is a much bigger issue at hand (not that the contest isn't entirely wtf are we doing)
[20:54] <thorwil> cue "this says more about the overall quality/expectations than about that set of photos" ;)
[20:55] <troy_s> thorwil: But realistically this has been tried so many times before. The showstopper was high up the foodchain.
[20:56] <thorwil> troy_s: please put on idea onto brainstorm: "remove the showstopper at the top of the foodchain"
[20:56] <troy_s> thorwil: It doesn't take a genius to realize that HEY there needs to be some sort of COLOUR in there.  It just adds a sense of diversity and it makes for at least an _option_ in there for those that aren't visually impaired.
[20:56] <troy_s> thorwil: Lol.
[20:59] <thorwil> tastf - troy appointed showstopper at the top of the foodchain
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: ?


[01:41] <paulorrrr> login live cd 10.04 please
[01:44] <tgm4883> paulorrrr, what?
[01:45] <paulorrrr> y not can star live cd login......
[01:45] <paulorrrr> what de login to start live cd
[01:49] <tgm4883> the live cd should automatically login
[01:49] <tgm4883> you are probably looking for #ubuntu anyway
[06:45] <ara> good morning!
[23:27] <czajkowski> c
[23:28] <jpds> d
[23:58] <iflema> e


[03:26] <enrico> ubuntulog: welcome!
[03:26] <enrico> ubuntulog: if you don't stay in the channel, how can I make the IRC report?
[04:02] <ChrisH> enrico: using irclog.workaround.org :)
[04:03] <Kinnison> ChrisH: but that's just a workaround; not a solution :-P
[04:03] <enrico> ChrisH: it's a bit cumbersome: I need to go there, pick the right amount of lines, paste in; ubuntulogs sends me a mail every day at midnight...
[04:04] <ChrisH> enrico: ic