[04:01] <Corey> Enough of dmitry's "faulty keyboard" for one night.
[08:39] <DJones> Hmmh, scrollbac has been joining/quitting the channel multiple times for a number of days with multiple nicks, mostly guest****, just saw this 09:37 < guest4129> thunder12121 you can login from http://scrollback.io/
[08:39] <DJones> Sounds like scrollback.io is a web interface
[08:40] <DJones> With a very unstable connection
[08:43] <Tm_T> DJones: hmmm, kind of a webchat?
[08:44] <DJones> Looking at the website, it seems sort of, but not quite
[08:46] <DJones> Website also shows live history of whats going on the #ubuntu channel on its front page
[08:47] <DJones> I'm not sure how that sits with the public logging of the channel and the decisions made for IRCAnswers & IRSeek bots
[08:47] <DJones> Maybe something for the IRCC to think about
[08:49] <DJones> In a way, it possibly gives people a way round bans if they find out about it, in that it cloaks ip's to the scrollback.io's
[08:51] <Myrtti> I have been wondering about that
[08:52] <DJones> You just click on the live channel at the bottom and it auto joins you to #ubuntu
[08:52] <Myrtti> no I think it autojoins on page load
[08:52] <Myrtti> 8601 was mee
[08:53] <DJones> Just trying, only seemed to join when I clicked on the feed
[08:53] <DJones> 2334 was my join
[08:54] <DJones> I couldn't spot any specific contact details for the people running the website
[08:56] <DJones> Although looking at the nicks using the service, one is Aravind I'm sure I've seen that nick fairly regularly as a #u user
[08:56] <DJones> But could just be a coincidence
[08:58] <tomaw> hrm, that looks a bit nasty
[08:59] <tomaw> the scrollback feature is a bit iffy
[08:59] <Myrtti> realname ban might work
[08:59] <Myrtti> but don't know if something else should be done too
[08:59] <Myrtti> the lack of contact details is a bit nasty
[09:01] <tomaw> hostname ban is enough
[09:01] <DJones> Pretty much all the connections show Guest1234!~scrollbac@ec2 etc, or occasionally @x.x.x.x ip
[09:03] <DJones> Couldn't find any way to change the nick of the user joining
[09:11] <Myrtti> yeah, you can change it, it just disconnects then
[09:11] <Myrtti> I think the disconnects probably are a design feature of somekind
[09:13] <DJones> Looking at github page, the commits are done by aravind/harish/sankha93/mengwong The only nick that jumps out is aravind
[12:40] <Pici> really?
[12:40] <bazhang> bwhaha
[12:40] <bazhang> that is my second favorite after "seriously?"
[12:41] <bazhang> I watch *way* too much Supernatural
[12:41] <Pici> :D
[14:49] <bazhang> cinnamon is in the repos? yegads
[16:41] <genii-around> In universe, apparently
[16:42] <Myrtti> well atleast MATE isn't
[16:43] <Myrtti> (please, tell me it isn't)
[16:45] <genii-around> apt-cache search   tells me it isn't
[16:54] <LjL> i remember a time when what you had in your repositories wasn't a political statement
[16:55] <Myrtti> I have no big issue with cinnamon being there
[16:55] <Myrtti> mate makes me uneasy
[16:56] <genii-around> LjL: I dunno. Like, firefox vs iceweasel has been going on a long time.
[16:58] <LjL> genii-around: ah well, when legal issues get involved, sure
[16:58] <LjL> genii-around: also, pretty sure GNOME vs KDE was hot for quite some time, but i wouldn't know because i was using WindowMaker
[16:59] <genii-around> Heh :)
[16:59] <bazhang> MINT and their codecs for everything out of the box would not pass muster
[17:00] <LjL> muster?
[17:00] <bazhang> pass licensing issues examination
[17:01] <LjL> ah
[17:01] <bazhang> pass muster is a term from the military originally
[17:02] <LjL> the WP article says some drivers are not included due to licensing issues, so maybe they're not deaf to this issue
 Can you help me please. I forget my pass root
 then aight
[18:01] <DJones> What ip did lars connect from was it a .de address?
[18:02] <bazhang> * [Lars1] (~lars@pD9FFD8EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de): purple
[18:02] <bazhang> oh yeah
[18:02] <bazhang> the dip0.t
[18:03] <DJones> The problem lars looks to be t-dialin.net
[18:04] <bazhang> could well be
[18:04] <DJones> I'm sure I can remember another lars* nick from a .de host that was a coc compliant user
[18:05] <bazhang> perhaps he and his cousins/brothers/roommates/neighbors got an upgrade
[18:05] <DJones> From memory, I'm pretty sure it was a different user
[18:07] <DJones> Thats probably proven given that they have been connected longer that 10 seconds without causing a problem
[18:07] <bazhang> heh yeah
[18:37] <seronis> i've seen a number of people pointlessly get chewed out for doing nick changes for away status.  is anyone offering an alternative means of showing your status?  if not complaining is pointless as some people need the ability to show this information
[18:37] <seronis> and anyone NOT wanting to see it can configure their client to ignore it
[18:37] <jbroome> you don't
[18:38] <jbroome> You do /away lunch  and someone can /whois you and see the away msg
[18:38] <seronis> and.. people who dont want to see nick changes can hide them.   next ?
[18:38] <DJones> !away
[18:38] <seronis> its not being used in channels.. its being used in Freenode.   next?
[18:40] <DJones> seronis: One of the reasons in the Ubuntu channels is that if all 1600 users used it evry time they went away, it would add to the non support comments
[18:41] <seronis> if you dont want to see it,..  you HIDE it via your own client options.  your argument is the same as saying join/part msgs are spam and people should never join the channel (or leave once there)
[18:41] <DJones> If you hide joins/quits/parts as with most IRC clients, nick changes are still shown
[18:42] <jbroome> i'm not as irritated with nick changes for away as the horrible announce scripts
[18:42] <seronis> and?  someone who doesnt want to see them can still use a client that hides them.
[18:42] <seronis> jbroome:  i agree with that.  spam is spam.  a nick change is not spam
[18:42] <jbroome> next?
[18:43] <seronis> and to me its idiocy to chew people out for a single nickchange
[18:44] <seronis> which i've seen done several times the past month (all such incidents were polite.. but still idiotic)
[18:47] <DJones> Its not something that gets called that often, in general its more for the user changing nick half a dozen times in a few minutes, I don't think many people would call it for an occasional away/sleep nick change
[18:48] <DJones> Looking at my lastlog, I can only see it once in the last 24 hours
[18:48] <seronis> nope.  its been pointed out on the very first instance of use.  thus my annoyance at the policy.  if it was only enforced when reasonable (for spammed nick changes) it would be another issue
[18:48] <knome> i'm pretty sure seronis is speaking about me
[18:48] <seronis> and i also said each time i saw it it was never RUDE.
[18:49] <knome> tbh, i don't think there's much idea to enforce a rule after you've done it "several times"
[18:49] <knome> changing a nick does produce unneeded lines on the channel
[18:49] <seronis> it produces zero lines if you hide them
[18:49] <seronis> same as join/part msgs
[18:49] <knome> the fact that there is a designed /away feature only makes it more annoying
[18:50] <knome> seronis, i can't hide nick changes/join/part/quit if i'm opping a channel. i need to know what's going on.
[18:50] <seronis> knome:  but you can redirect them to a seperate window to view only as needed for OPing
[18:51] <seronis> i have all highlights redirected with a script like that and i've only been on here 3 weeks
[18:51] <knome> seronis, yes, or i can tell the user not to use awaynicks.
[18:51] <seronis> but there is no legitimate reason to tell them that
[18:51] <seronis> they are doing nothing wrong
[18:51] <jbroome> how is this still going
[18:52] <seronis> jbroome: rule lacks any intelligent purpose.  thats how
[18:52] <knome> seronis, they are noisy. the channel guidelines tell not to use public away messages (and that includes away nicks)
[18:52] <knome> seronis, you agree to the guidelines when you join the channel.
[18:53] <knome> seronis, if you aren't fine with them, you should not join the channels.
[18:53] <seronis> using nick changes has nothing to do with the channel.  it is allowed at the server level
[18:53] <seronis> a person is responsible for properly configuring their own client
[18:53] <knome> seronis, ok, this is leading nowhere. is there something else you need help with?
[18:55] <seronis> i'll stick with the ruling given by DJones.  Its something only meant to be enforced when its an issue of spam
[18:55] <knome> !guidelines | seronis
[18:56] <knome> seronis, if you are unhappy with the guidelines and/or the policy being enforced on any channel(s), you are free to leave the(se) channel(s).
[18:57] <seronis> and im also free to speak my mnind and get the policies changed when appropriate. =-)
[18:57] <seronis> which is why im in -here- mentioning this and not in #xubuntu
[18:57] <seronis> and 2 out of 3 OPs who spoke up seem to think that the guideline in this case is meant purely for issues of nick spam
[18:58] <knome> seronis, you can raise it to the IRCC council if you disagree
[18:58] <knome> *IRC council or IRCC
[19:04] <LjL> uhm, something can't be "allowed at the server level" meaning that channels *have to* allow it while you're in them.
[19:05] <LjL> there might be no "server level" rule about away nicks, but there is an Ubuntu rule, which is supposed to be respected while in Ubuntu channels.
[19:06] <seronis> LjL:  the people in question are not sending ANYTHING to the channel.  they are sending a command to the server.
[19:06] <seronis> if the server is sending you info you dont want to see its up to you to configure your client to hide it
[19:06] <seronis> its not MY responsibility to hide  join/part msgs on your client if you dont like them.  its your job
[19:06] <seronis> you can just as easily hide nick change messages
[19:07] <knome> seronis, it's your responsibility to respect the guidelines which you are agreeing on when joining the channel
[19:07] <Unit193> The same thing could be said about profanity, if you don't like it you can just as easily remove the message, or with trigger.pl change the word.
[19:07] <LjL> you're confusing technical matters with matters of policy i think, seronis
[19:07] <IdleOne> seronis: You do have a right to speak your mind. I heard a really great saying about peoples rights last week that made things very clear in my mind at least. I'll share it with you "Your right to swing a fist ends at the tip of my noes."
[19:08] <LjL> the fact that the protocol makes it so that away nicks don't technically "send anything" to the channel has nothing to do with what the rules about them are.
[19:08] <Myrtti> can't decide if typo or intentional
[19:08] <knome> Myrtti, :)
[19:09] <seronis> LjL: please logically explain the difference between having a rule against nick changes.. and having a rule against  join/part msgs ?
[19:10] <seronis> no hypotheticals.  no semmantics.  use a bit of logic and state reasonably why one is the fault of the user and one is the fault of the client
[19:10] <knome> seronis, join/part message is compulsory, using an away nick is optional.
[19:10] <seronis> false.  i cant  'not' send a join/part message when i enter or leave a channel
[19:10] <seronis> it is equally compulsory
[19:10] <IdleOne> seronis: join part message are sent to the client by the server, the client can disable those. nick changes are sent by the user via the server.
[19:11] <LjL> seronis, whether or not you send a quit message, a line gets sent and usually shown to the channel
[19:11] <LjL> there is no such thing as a join message that i know of
[19:11] <seronis> LjL:  and its the responsibility of the user to configure their own client to show or hide join/part msgs
[19:11] <seronis> same thing with nick changes
[19:11] <Myrtti> I sense a circular discussion where neither side is budging. I'll go get the popcorn.
[19:11] <seronis> Myrtti:  only real.  microwave stuff smells like cancer
[19:12] <IdleOne> wrong, it is the responsibility of the user to follow the guidelines set by the channel owners/ops
[19:12] <knome> i agree with Myrtti.
[19:12] <knome> seronis, if you really want to, raise this issue for the IRCC to decide.
[19:13] <knome> seronis, now, if you don't need further assistance, please leave this channel as we have a no-idle policy here.
[19:16] <seronis> no need to do that (yet).  i'll just bring the issue up here for discussion as the matter becomes relevant, aka when someone gets pointlessly chewed out for single uses of nick changes
[19:16] <seronis> also.. id prefer to idle.  and when i first /join'd in here i read  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines  which i assume is the rules for discussions in here.  there is no rule against idling
[19:17] <knome> seronis, yes there is. please read the topic.
[19:17] <Myrtti> actually
[19:17] <genii-around> /topic
[19:17] <LjL> seronis: the /topic of this channel is part of the rules.
[19:17] <jbroome> this isn't an idling channel
[19:17] <knome> seronis, also, this channel isn't really the right place to do that. if you think it's necessary to change the policy, contact the IRCC
[19:18] <knome> !appeal | seronis
[19:18] <IdleOne> You have brought it up here, and you were told what the ops position is. if you want to continue you need to contact the IRCC
[19:19] <knome> seronis, you've now had 40 minutes with several people in this channel (counting up to >100 minutes of people's time for your issue); if you think it's not fair that we ask you to leave now, please tell that to the IRCC too
[19:19] <knome> oops.
[19:19] <Myrtti> or join in #ubuntu-irc and continue the discussion there
[19:19] <Myrtti> or just not continue it.
[23:31] <bazhang> @mark #xubuntu xubuntu244<EMAIL_ADDRESS> foul language, abusive


[00:00] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[00:00] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
 Thanks! wxl
[00:01] <wxl> np
[00:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[00:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
 ^ What that does mean?
[00:03] <tsimonq2> They're wiki page updates.
[00:03] <wxl> it means @tsimonq2 is editing a wiki page
[00:03] <tsimonq2> https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/
[00:03] <tsimonq2> Everyone go review the text on that page ^
[00:04] <wxl> would be nice if that was a little more informative
[00:04] <tsimonq2> What do you think should be on there?
[00:04] <wxl> some of the links are messed up
[00:05] <tsimonq2> argh
[00:05] <tsimonq2> yeah
[00:05] <kc2bez> wxl which of these log files should I append to that bug report?
[00:05] <wxl> if your goal is correct, perhaps talking to other lubuntu developers is probably a good first start for sponsors before overall sponsors
[00:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[00:06] <wxl> ummmmmmmmm i'm not sure offhand :/
[00:06] <tsimonq2> wxl: k, links are fixed
[00:06] <wxl> does anyone here know what logs specifically log updates?
[00:06] <tsimonq2> Sure, I kinda get what you mean.
[00:06] <kc2bez> `dist-upgrade` ?
[00:07] <tsimonq2> wxl: Uff, hmm, /var/log/dpkg or /var/log/apt maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe?
[00:07] <wxl> no
[00:08] <wxl> oh
[00:08] <wxl> it is dist-upgrade apparently. weird
[00:08] <wxl> can you pastebin those?
[00:08] <kc2bez> yup, standby.
[00:08] <wxl> i'm thinking most likely are {apt,apt-term,history,main,term}.log
[00:09] <wxl> actually
[00:09] <wxl> grep them for "packages updated"
[00:10] <kc2bez> ok, hang on.
[00:11] <wxl> oops
[00:12] <wxl> wait
[00:12] <kc2bez> listening
[00:12] <wxl> i see i was interpreting things wrong
[00:12] <wxl> i probably want to see them anyways but grep for "installed packages"
[00:13] <kc2bez> ok, I will send them too
[00:13] <wxl> you can just pastebin for now
[00:17] <kc2bez> Here is apt-term http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/hMb7FB7xtk/
[00:19] <kc2bez> Apt.log http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/YgxWFpZdQs/
[00:21] <kc2bez> history http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/dbk486Pkjw/
[00:24] <kc2bez> main http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/JQdfJFYP9w/
[00:30] <wxl> guiverc: can you pastebin /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log from that `do-release-upgrade -p` you did for bug 179985 please?
[00:30] <wxl> ugh
[00:30] <wxl> bug 1799855
[00:35] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[00:35] <tsimonq2> wxl: How's that look? https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/
[00:36] <wxl> tsimonq2: `quilt` not quilt XD
[00:37] <wxl> working with upstream should be a requirement, i think
[00:37] <wxl> as well as git
[00:37] <tsimonq2> Well, it's basic understanding of doing vs detailed understanding of doing.
[00:37] <wxl> i know
[00:38] <wxl> otherwise good
[00:38] <tsimonq2> Yeah, on second thought you're right.
[00:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[00:40] <teward> *sits on wxl's computer*
[00:41] <teward> wxl: thanks for helping me do those tests :)
[00:42]  * wxl pushes the kitty off the keyboard
[00:54] <wxl> hey @tsimonq2 you deactivated me XD
[00:56] <tsimonq2> wxl: Yeah, that was intentional.
[00:56] <wxl> ok i'll take your word for it
[01:05] <tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2019-February/001319.html
[01:05] <tsimonq2> wxl, @HMollerCl, etc.: ^
[01:07] <wxl> @tsimonq2: lgtm. remind me if i need to be at that dmb meeting
[01:07] <tsimonq2> wxl: Please be there :)
[01:08] <tsimonq2> Monday, February 25th, 2019 at 19:00 UTC
[01:08] <guiverc> wxl, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nRRzM3NvXy/ for #1799855 (or whatever nbr it was)  `pastebinit /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log`  (though I re-typed what i input here in irc, so sorry if typos)
[01:08] <wxl> emphasis on word *REMiND*
[01:08] <tsimonq2> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntu+Developer+Membership+Board+Meeting&iso=20190225T19 for quick conversion
[01:08] <tsimonq2> mmmkau
[01:08] <tsimonq2> *mmmkay
[01:08] <wxl> guiverc: ugh that's the wrong one. hm. one sec
[01:09] <wxl> kc2bez: which file is this? https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/dbk486Pkjw/
[01:09] <teward> *still considers applying for coredev*
[01:10] <guiverc> wxl i can provide the pastebin on the lp bug if it'd help (i'll copy/paste for that instead of re-type)
[01:13] <wxl> guiverc: for now, that's not necessary
[01:13] <kc2bez> that is history wxl
[01:13] <wxl> guiverc: ^^ so could you redo, but for history.log?
[01:19] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[01:22] <guiverc> wxl - http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2HKxqNJpS6/
[01:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[01:32] <tsimonq2> Ooh, I almost forgot the DFSG, that's super important.
[01:32] <tsimonq2> wxl: ^^^^^
[01:39] <wxl> omg someone help me with regex
 (Document) https://telegram.lubuntu.me/k2YXgugn/file_6048.mp4
[01:39] <wxl> given something like the following:
[01:39] <wxl> Remove: lubuntu-artwork-18-04:amd64 (0.71.1), lubuntu-gtk-core:amd64 (0.94.1), lubuntu-gtk-desktop:amd64 (0.94.1), lubuntu-default-session:amd64 (0.54.2), libdns1100:amd64 (1:9.11.3+dfsg-1ubuntu1.3), fwupdate-signed:amd64 (1.18+10-3)
[01:39]  * tsimonq2 points at teward
[01:39] <wxl> i want to remove everything in the parentheses
[01:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: You know debhelper is written in Perl, right? XD
[01:40]  * teward was pointed at
[01:40] <teward> hm?
[01:40] <tsimonq2> teward: You're good at regex stuff
[01:40] <tsimonq2> (I assume)
[01:40] <teward> not really, i hate regex
[01:40] <teward> I mean
[01:40] <wxl> normally regex is greedy so you use a pattern like (.*) and it gobbles up everything from the first open to the last end paren
[01:40] <teward> ^ this
[01:40] <teward> wxl: so you *don't* want to get what's in the parentheses right?
[01:40] <wxl> supposedly ? is the lazy qualifier but i can't get it to work >:(
[01:41] <wxl> essentially i want package, package, package more or less
 yeah that's not what I'd use regex for 😐
 you trying to sed this?
[01:42] <wxl> yeah or vim
[01:42] <wxl> same difference
[01:42] <wxl> hold on i may have got it
[01:45] <wxl> nope
[01:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu Developers] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) :
[01:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: Thoughts on my "What's next?"  Will do.
[04:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL9b0859dfcf23: Add cut/copy/paste to lomath] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL9b0859dfcf23
[04:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALf4ff83d1515c: Add lomath undo/redo] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALf4ff83d1515c
[05:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL33e29d817400: Add Quassel Custom colors checkbox] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL33e29d817400
[05:20] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL9d86d5b34f9f: Add custom channel colors] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL9d86d5b34f9f
[18:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL1635b018cfa9: Add custom nick lists colors] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL1635b018cfa9
[18:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL8ce7a8298e60: Add nick selector] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL8ce7a8298e60
[19:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALf3fc13eadb65: Add style buttons to quassel] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALf3fc13eadb65
[19:15] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL9f1f24896a61: Add Quassel line wrapping checkbox] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL9f1f24896a61
[20:03] <tsimonq2> lynorian: I'm going to work on updating translations for the manual real quick.
[20:04] <tsimonq2> Then I'd like to talk to you about the multiple version number issue, because there's an easy solution.
[20:09] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL0565c01f88b7: Update translations.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL0565c01f88b7
[20:30] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rSEEDd6b4c5f685bb: added qapt-deb-installer] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rSEEDd6b4c5f685bb
[20:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rWELCOME9bd29fe95e6f: Samuel Banya: Adding Simon and Artem with their team member titles in the About…] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rWELCOME9bd29fe95e6f
 Congrats to @HMollerCl for getting commit access to our packaging :)
[20:38] <wxl> yay
 Thanks!
[20:57] <wxl> i'm sure you saw @tsimonq2 but https://anarc.at/software/debian-development/#further-work-and-remaining-issues
[20:58] <tsimonq2> Oh, I haven't seen this.
[21:24] <lynorian> tsimonq2: ack
[21:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALdc233394584c: Style apply changes button for muon] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALdc233394584c
[22:13] <Eickmeyer> Odd question: I'm trying to fork the Lubuntu plymouth theme (obvious fork of the Ubuntu plymouth theme) for Ubuntu Studio by merely replacing the Lubuntu logo with the Ubuntu Studio logo and changing the background to a dark gray (RGB 0.17 0.17 0.17), but it keeps crashing. Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.
[22:13] <Eickmeyer> I've tried changing the size of the logo (a png file) but I'm getting nowhere.
[22:14] <Eickmeyer> Reason for the change: our existing plymouth theme is long-in-the-tooth and doesn't scale well.
[22:15] <lynorian_> I don't know that much about it
[22:15] <Eickmeyer> My guess is the png is wrong somehow, since that's the only meaningful change.
[22:16] <lynorian_> I think a few days ago someone noticed ours was slightly off center not sure if it was ubuntu part was centered
[22:16] <Eickmeyer> lynorian_: not sure if you saw the first part of that, seems as if you've grown a tail.
[22:16] <lynorian_> Eickmeyer: this is bridged to telegram so I saw that and don't know what happened to my first quassel window
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> Haha, I get it. Happens.
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> I think someone fixed yours, though.
[22:17] <lynorian_> yes
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> Ours, well... smooshes. :P
[22:21] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL0f6d9a86609c: Add muon back and preview changes] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL0f6d9a86609c
[22:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALfe44041aefce: Add not on runner able to be used as a calculator] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALfe44041aefce
 @Eickmeyer [<Eickmeyer> Ours, well... smooshes. :P], Maybe @aptghetto or @JyotiGomes know, both have been playing with Plymouth logo
 @HMollerCl [Maybe @aptghetto or @JyotiGomes know, both have been playing with Plymouth logo], I'm hoping someone does! :)
 I don't exactly have anything to throw into a git repo just yet, but if needed I suppose I could put it in ubuntustudio-look.
[23:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL8f206c7f6481: Add mulitply /divide exponetate to lxqt-runner calculator] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL8f206c7f6481
[23:06] <kc2bez> Eickmeyer: It looks like Plymouth has a debug mode that logs to `var/log/plymouth-debug.log` by adding `plymouth:debug` . I haven't tested it so YMMV but hopefully it will help.
[23:07] <Eickmeyer> kc2bez: Kernel command line, I imagine?
[23:09] <kc2bez> That is what the docs indicate.
[23:20] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL9996b5df50c6: Add middle click titlebar to iconify] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL9996b5df50c6


[00:30] <valorie> ikonia: was bren being abusive in PM or something?
[00:30] <valorie> in ref. to #kubuntu
[00:30] <ikonia> yes and look at #ubuntu
[00:30] <ikonia> my client was lagging for some reason, so I made a bit of a mess of removing him
[00:31] <valorie> ah, I'm not in #ubuntu
[00:31] <valorie> too much noice, and I can't usually help anyway
[00:31] <ikonia> basically every other word was cunt
[00:31] <valorie> noise
[00:31] <valorie> oh yikes
[00:31] <ikonia> and for no reason
[00:31] <valorie> thank you then
[12:18] <k1l_> is there some known issue with this? <catopett> Set the -i on "#kubuntu-no"
[12:19] <Myrtti> 121724 <+Myrtti> speaking from my Ubuntu IRC experience, if there isn't enough traffic for a Ubuntu flavour channel on  the loco channel, they're forwarded to the #ubuntu-* channel and people can and should ask their  questions there
[12:19] <Myrtti> but apparently he gets kicked if he asks kubuntu questions there, which I find peculiar
[12:19] <k1l_> #kubuntu-no is forwarding to #ubuntu-no
[12:20] <Myrtti> 121946 < geirha> catopett: What? no, you don't
[12:20] <Myrtti> yes.
[12:20] <ikonia> that seems unlikley that he'd get kicked for that
[12:20] <Myrtti> indeed
[12:21] <k1l_> seems they are sorting some stuff in #ubuntu-no with ops etc.
[12:22] <Myrtti> case solved
[12:22] <Myrtti> :-P
[14:44] <Voyage> How can I check which version of a specific app is supported in a specific ubuntu version package manager (without installing that ubuntu version)?
[14:46] <ikonia> Voyage: you're in #ubuntu-ops as you're still banned in the ubuntu channels
[14:46] <ikonia> the ban won't be removed until you actually resolve the issue
[14:47] <hggdh> Voyage: anything we can do for you? If not, please part the channel.
[14:47] <Voyage> hggdh,  ya, I asked a question ^
[14:48] <ikonia> hggdh: I think he's probably still go me on ignore
[14:48] <ikonia> which is a small part of the problem
[14:48] <hggdh> k
[14:49] <Voyage> k means, you will answer?
[14:49] <hggdh> Voyage: you are in #ubuntu-ops, not in #ubuntu. Do you wish to discuss your ban?
[14:49] <Voyage> oh..
[14:49] <Voyage> If you want to discuss the ban? I have few minutes but not much..
[14:49] <hggdh> Voyage: I also strong suggest you to take ikonia off your ignore list. It is not a good option to ignore an ops
[14:50] <hggdh> Voyage: where/when/why were you banned?
[14:50] <ikonia> I suggest he comes back when he's not against the clock then
[14:50] <Voyage> I choose not to put off ikonia from my list. For the ban, I dont recall a proper reason.
[14:50] <ikonia> he's banned in multiple #ubuntu channels #ubuntu #kubuntu and maybe ubuntu-offtopic (but I'd have to check)
[14:53] <hggdh> Voyage: let me refresh your memory: you are banned from the #ubuntu and #kubuntu channels due to attitude and threats
[14:54] <Voyage> such as a citation?
[14:54] <hggdh> Voyage>       Someday I am going to meet this MattDarcy personally. Sooner or later. That will be a hard day.
[14:55] <ikonia> the bottom line is he's doing a "secret" project and doesn't share all the details so wastes people times with help requests, then hassles them for an answer, and basically annoys everyone in the channel with the attitude
[14:55] <hggdh> I am, frankly, starting to feel I am wasting my time. You already had a conversation about this earier on in this channel.
[14:55] <ikonia> when contfronted about this it turns to stupid comments rather than focus on the best way to get help
[14:56] <ikonia> the threats was just a childish backlash for being banned, I don't really care about that
[14:56] <ikonia> but I would like him to be able to use the channel and interact with people beyond people actually telling him to "shut up" because he is annoying people that much
 Voyage>       Someday I am going to meet this MattDarcy personally. Sooner or later. That will be a hard day. <-- this was AFTER the ban. I am asking citations BEFORE the ban
[14:57] <hggdh> Voyage: you also have a pattern of asking help and notgiving details when requested for
[14:57] <ikonia> he doesn't just to it in #ubuntu - but it's more of a problem in ubuntu as it's busy
[14:57] <Voyage> hggdh,  if you , in capacity of an op in ubuntu channel, thing that you are wasting your time. Please stop doing so.
[14:57] <hggdh> Voyage: please be aware that your actions before *and* after a ban affect your status
[14:57] <Voyage> one sec.
[14:57]  * Voyage types
 Voyage: you also have a pattern of asking help and notgiving details when requested for <-- this is personal percpective and not a reason to ban someone.
[14:59] <Voyage> ikonia,  is  a 'no one'. He has no place but a mere op who chats all day. Thats it. I dont want to waste my precious time on or about or on things related to him. I may sound rude here but thats a fact I badly said. If its upto ikonia, I dont want to be unbanned. I dont, now, even give that much importance to him to hate him. He just doesnt exists in my world.
[14:59] <Voyage> hggdh,  I would like to part this channel.
[14:59] <ikonia> then do it
[14:59] <ikonia> and stop trying to join
[14:59] <hggdh> Voyage: you are free to do so at any time
[15:00] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops voyage another voyage incident where he joins - but doesn't want to be unbanned
[15:00] <Voyage> and I will meet him
[15:00] <ikonia> sounds good
[15:00] <Voyage> I havent forgotten that
[15:01] <hggdh> oh boy
[15:01] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops voyage rejoined -ops just to make another threat for sport
[15:02] <hggdh> ikonia: sorry, I tried.
[15:02] <ikonia> zero reason to be sorry
[15:03] <hggdh> I find it weird that people will /ignore ops.


[16:32] <Darxus> Since I upgraded from Karmic to Lucid I'm getting no window manager on startup.  I believe I had been using compiz.  Starting one manually is easy, but what method of automatically starting a window manager will be least likely to cause me problems in the future?
[16:32] <Darxus> Just add compiz to startup applications?
[16:33] <Darxus> Changing my Appearance settings doesn't have a lasting affect, just starts the window manager once.
[16:47] <tjaalton> Darxus: not a problem in x, try asking on #ubuntu
[16:52] <Darxus> tjaalton: Ah, this channel is only for getting the server itself working?
[17:40] <tjaalton> Darxus: yes
[17:40] <tjaalton> not everything on top of it ;)
[17:45] <Darxus> Yeah, makes sense.
[17:45] <Darxus> Took me a year to get it working the first time, I can understand dedicating a channel to it :P
[17:45] <Darxus> Very glad things have gotten better since then :)


[02:20] <cjohnston> wow.. quiet in here
[02:24] <cprofitt> chirp
[02:24] <sagaci> cjohnston: make some noise
[02:25] <sagaci> cprofitt's in the spirit
[02:26] <cprofitt> ribbit
[02:27] <cjohnston> blah blah blah
[02:27] <cprofitt> thump, thump, bang, thump
[02:28] <sagaci> the leadership summit at uds-p, was that a one-off event?
[02:28] <cprofitt> sagaci: not sure...
[02:29] <cprofitt> I think there was a desire to do that more...
[02:29] <cprofitt> but not sure if it is carrying through
[02:29] <sagaci> I enjoyed listening in to a few of the sessions
[02:29] <cjohnston> sagaci: yes, people would like to have another one this uds
[02:29] <cprofitt> I think the conversation is worthwhile... as the community grows we have to have a plan to grow leadership.
[02:50] <cjohnston> bkerensa: I want cool free stuff :-/
[02:56] <cprofitt> I gotta get some sleep all...
[02:56] <cprofitt> have a good night
[02:56] <cjohnston> g'nite
[03:55] <komputes> I've updated my bug list for 12.04 LTS - Feel free to confirm bugs which affect you.
[03:55] <komputes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/komputes/TopBugs
[05:26] <bkerensa> ugh rhythmbox keeps freezing on startup
[06:26] <bkerensa> jcastro: I hope to get some guidance on deciphering all the info that clint passed for my charm from you sometime tomorrow :P
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <dpm> good morning all
[08:11] <dpm> morning dholbach
[08:11] <dholbach> hey dpm
[09:04] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:32] <Tejas> Hi All,
[09:32] <Tejas> I got error when i am installing a any application
[09:32] <Tejas> Error: Errors were encountered while processing:
[09:32] <Tejas> postfix
[09:32] <Tejas> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[09:32] <Tejas> Need Help!!
[09:33] <nigelb> Er, you should probably ask in #ubuntu
[09:33] <nigelb> that's the support channel.
[10:42] <cjohnston> mornin
[10:42] <sagaci> cjohnston: morning
[10:42] <cjohnston> hey
[10:42] <sagaci> are you going to uds?
[10:43] <cjohnston> yes
[10:44] <sagaci> I was hoping the precise cds would be available by then
[10:46] <cjohnston> they normally are
[10:47] <dpm> hi AlanBell, a while ago I asked for getting a bugbot back into #ubuntu-translators (at some point it seemed to die and never came back). I asked on #ubuntu-ops but I never got an answer, and then someone mentioned you might be able to help?
[10:48] <cjohnston> dpm: jpds
[10:48] <czajkowski> cjohnston: he's on hols
[10:48] <cjohnston> k.. I've always been told that jpds owns the bug bots
[10:48] <dpm> argh, pinged him already
[10:49] <dpm> nevermind
[10:49] <czajkowski> cjohnston: he owns them but others can do stuff as well
[10:50] <dpm> I can see some info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots but I cannot figure out who to talk to
[10:50] <cjohnston> when I asked jussi he said jpds.. that's all I know
[10:51] <dpm> brb
[10:54] <AlanBell> dpm: ask in #ubuntu-irc, it is normally jpds
[10:55] <czajkowski> AlanBell: and is there a back up plan for when he's not here
[10:56] <AlanBell> we were talking about moving them onto the ubottu server
[10:56] <AlanBell> jussi has sent ubottu into a few channels for bugbot purposes
[10:58] <czajkowski> AlanBell: can you arrange for that in the mean time as I know jpds is away this week on annual leave
[11:00] <czajkowski> team contacts and team owners will cause my head to explode one of the these days
[11:33] <head_victim> We have a city in our Loco that is holding a release party event the weekend before the actual release to coincide with school/university hours better. They're not able to link it to the global event because the date window starts on the release date. Is this something that could be widened to allow them to link to the global event or is there reasons for this?
[11:37] <czajkowski> head_victim: aye I can change the date for the release party
[11:37] <czajkowski> usually it;s the date of release onwards but can go before if needed
[11:38] <czajkowski> head_victim: what date?
[11:42] <head_victim> They're doing it the 21st
[11:43] <head_victim> http://is.gd/y1Ewmh
[11:43] <czajkowski> head_victim: altered it now
[11:43] <czajkowski> hope that helps
[11:43] <head_victim> Appreciated greatly.
[11:43] <head_victim> And it will add another event to the global count ;)
[11:45] <czajkowski> lol
[12:03] <cprofitt> head_victim: glad to see another launch party... still working on getting the details of New Yorks buttoned down.
[12:06] <head_victim> cprofitt: our loco is up to 2 so far and I'm hoping to get a couple more around the place.
[12:07] <cprofitt> nice work... I had three locations at one point, but a deployment by the Navy and relocation of another member has caused me to lose the organizers of those
[12:07] <cprofitt> trying to rebuild the organizer 'role' this LP
[12:07] <head_victim> Our loco (Australia) is so geographically diverse we need to try and do a few.
[12:07]  * cprofitt nods
[12:07] <sagaci> Yep under the umbrella event now
[12:07] <head_victim> Conversely we don't have enough active members to split the team up really all that well either.
[12:09] <sagaci> Its really only been head_victim in the past two yrs in regards to offline events
[12:09] <cprofitt> head_victim sagaci - yeah... it is difficult to build other organizers... many are willing to attend, but get nervous about organizing
[12:09] <head_victim> sagaci: we'll get there :) Once you string a few meetings together in the same vicinity people start to interact better.
[12:10] <cprofitt> +1 head_victim
[12:11] <head_victim> We're starting to throw in mid release tech get togethers this year as well in one of the locations. Just to keep people interacting but not overwhelming them with time commitments.
[12:11]  * cprofitt nods
[12:11] <cprofitt> in my area that is a bit of an issue... we have a large number of tech related groups
[12:12] <head_victim> Ah in mine, there is a couple but they are more social than anything and very hard to get into the social circles.
[12:12] <cprofitt> general CP user group, Python group, Perl group, Java group, Hackerspace, Linux User Group and the Ubuntu group
[12:12] <head_victim> So when you provide a positive atmosphere newer people are happier to come along.
[12:12] <cprofitt> oh... and a 2600 group
[12:18] <sagaci> How is the ubuntu group going
[12:31] <cprofitt> sagaci: right now it primarily does special events and helps augment existing groups
[12:31] <cprofitt> I did not want other groups to feel as though we were competing with them
[12:32] <cprofitt> Monthly we co-sponsor a Linux Workshop and I would say 90% of the folks that come for 'Linux Help' are Ubuntu users
[12:32] <cprofitt> so that works well
[12:32] <cprofitt> sagaci: is that what you meant?
[12:33] <sagaci> Yep
[12:33] <sagaci> Are you going to uds?
[12:33] <cprofitt> Yes, I will be at UDS
[12:34] <cprofitt> will you be there sagaci?
[12:34] <sagaci> Yepskies
[12:34] <cprofitt> cool.
[12:35] <sagaci> Cant wait. Its the epitome of any computery event
[12:36] <mhall119> sagaci: it's actually very different than a show/expo
[12:36] <cprofitt> yeah... its a work session for the community
[12:36] <cprofitt> lots of fun, but lots of work
[12:36] <sagaci> Yep I'm comparing it to linux.conf.au
[12:37] <sagaci> Being ubuntu centric rather than linux as a whole
[12:41] <cprofitt> sagaci: is this your first one?
[12:41] <sagaci> Yep
[12:42] <cprofitt> Very nice!!
[12:42] <sagaci> Should be awesome
[12:42] <cprofitt> just make sure you get enough sleep
[12:44] <mhall119> nobody gets enough sleep
[12:53] <jcastro> mhall119, hola
[12:53] <mhall119> hi jcastro
[12:54] <jcastro> bkerensa, hah I think he's being overley picky
[12:55] <jcastro> but it's all good, maybe today I'll have a chance to look at it and help out
[12:55] <s-fox> Good afternoon :-)
[12:55] <sagaci> Arvie
[12:56] <s-fox> sagaci,  south african ?
[12:56] <sagaci> Australian
[12:56] <s-fox> Ah ;)  :)
[12:56] <s-fox> How're you ?
[12:56] <sagaci> :)
[12:57] <sagaci> Not bad, what're you up to today
[12:59] <s-fox> sagaci,  not a great deal, just working on my new avatar for the ubuntu forums, want to see?
[13:00] <sagaci> Im on a mobile device so I'll wait til later
[13:00] <s-fox> Haha, probably wise :)
[13:00] <s-fox> You up to much today?
[13:02] <sagaci> Nah... about to head to bed
[14:50] <technoviking> jcastro: Got the SSO link on front page but it errors out
[14:50] <technoviking> need to get Stuart some logs will be IS about that
[14:51] <jcastro> ok
[14:52] <technoviking> We got project cool project that we are running on Ubuntu. It will scan tiff/jpg/png scans of paper ducuments and look for hidden/erased or text shadows and show them. Very CSI
[14:53] <technoviking> setup of a better server for it today
[15:58] <dholbach> dpm, you know who a hero is? asomething - he is just fantastic
[15:58] <dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/~andrewsomething/ubuntu-packaging-guide/i18n/+merge/97903
[15:58] <jo-erlend> alanBell: hey. I read about your quicklist-thing. Cool stuff. Why are you not in #ubuntu-app-devel? :)
[15:59] <dholbach> I'll play around with it some more - hopefully we can merge it and ask folks to translate it
[15:59] <dpm> dholbach, that's really awesome!
[16:00] <dpm> dholbach, I still haven't changed the frequency of updates of the guide. Let me do it in a few mins...
[16:00] <dholbach> dpm, and it looks like it was a royal pain in the ar.. to get it right
[16:01] <AlanBell> jo-erlend: um, because I don't do much app dev, I just got so frustrated at not being able to use my desktop I had to fix it!
[16:01] <jo-erlend> :)
[16:03] <AlanBell> jo-erlend: where did you read about it?
[16:03] <jo-erlend> AlanBell, I'd like my program to run subprocesses and then be able to switch between those windows. For instance, I open two instances of gnome-terminal and then my app switches between them for me. Will studying your code teach me how to do that?
[16:04] <AlanBell> possibly, not sure I understand the scenario though
[16:04] <jo-erlend> alanBell; omgubuntu is going to publish an article about it, I think. I got an rss feed from them, but they removed the page afterwards. However, it contained a link to theopensourcerer.com
[16:04] <AlanBell> ok, thought it might be that, it turned up in my rss feed from there too, but there is no article
[16:05] <jo-erlend> alanBell: well, I'm writing some stuff for Quickly. It uses Gedit for source, glade for ui design, bazaar for vcs, etc. I'd like a better way to switch between those windows.
[16:05] <AlanBell> oh I see, so you want to group a bunch of windows into a "task" or something and flick between them with ease
[16:06] <jo-erlend> right. So, for instance, if i have two open quickly projects at the same time, if I want to edit one of them, it'll switch to the right instance of gedit.
[16:06]  * AlanBell likes this plan
[16:06] <mhall119> so compiz used to have a plugin for grouping windows,not sure if that still works or not
[16:07] <jo-erlend> I do too. The prototype was awesome, so I started development today. But how to do the window management is an unknown. When I read your post, I thought it might be a good starting point.
[16:08] <jo-erlend> mhall119, that's not what I want to do. I want normal window handling, but I want to use the HUD so that entering "edit" will focus the GEdit instance for the currently active Quickly project.
[16:08] <mhall119> oh...
[16:09] <jo-erlend> this is not critical, but definitely something I want to have.
[16:16] <AlanBell> hmm, not sure the HUD will work like that
[16:16] <AlanBell> I have the group and tab compiz plugin, I have no idea what it does though
[16:25] <jo-erlend> alanBell; the HUD part is working flawlessly. That's why I simplified it to simply say that my app creates two instances of a program and I want my app to switch between them.
[16:26] <AlanBell> ok
[16:27] <jo-erlend> alanBell; is your thing able to distinguish between instances that way, or does it just list open windows without knowing anything more about it than the title?
[16:28] <jo-erlend> hmm. I think I'll go read it. It'll probably be useful :)
[16:31] <AlanBell> it is based on windows
[16:32] <AlanBell> run dfeet to see the dbus stuff
[16:32] <mhall119> jcastro: is OMG having problems with their rss/facebook linkage?
[16:32] <AlanBell> the documentation around unity is pretty rubbish, but once you understand dfeet it all becomes clear
[16:33] <AlanBell> jo-erlend: gedit /usr/bin/quicklists it is not that long :)
[16:34] <mhall119> AlanBell: dpm and I are both hard at work improving the state of Unity documentation
[16:34] <AlanBell> great
[16:35] <dpm> as we speak, literally :)
[16:38] <nigelb> mhall119, jcastro http://ploum.net/post/what-if-ubuntu-were-right
[16:38] <nigelb> You'll find it interesting.
[16:39] <mhall119> nigelb: you'll find I've already commented on it
[16:39] <nigelb> HA
[16:40] <jcastro> mhall119, what FB/rss linkage?
[16:40] <nigelb> mhall119: I think his point about being a Canonical project is that, Canonical controls development and direction.
[16:40] <nigelb> I'm not opposed. That's a great idea.
[16:40]  * jalcine clicks.
[16:41] <mhall119> jcastro: jo-erlend saw something from them on RSS that isn't on their site, and there's a post on FB about an article that isn't on their site
[16:41] <jcastro> oh, I've noticed he's been unpublishing sometimes
[16:41] <jcastro> he should be sorted in an hour or two when we redeploy
[16:41] <mhall119> nigelb: yeah, but even that isn't accurate (though it's much harder to get real metrics about)
[16:41] <jcastro> the stock charm gave him old wordpress so he's been forced to do some weird things
[16:41] <mhall119> ah, ok
[16:41] <jcastro> but the new charm is slick ootb
[16:42] <nigelb> mhall119: meh, I'm not talking about metrics. I'm talking about reality. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'd rather have Canonical controling the project tha it be a trollfest.
[16:43] <jcastro> canonical is driving the project, sure
[16:44] <mhall119> nigelb: there's a lot more community involvement in decisions than most people realize
[16:44] <jcastro> but designers in GNOME don't exactly let you do what you want either.
[16:44] <nigelb> jcastro: Yes, that's what I mean.
[16:44] <jalcine> don't exactly?
[16:44] <jcastro> it's not a company-specific thing
[16:44] <jcastro> both have design-driven goals
[16:44] <jalcine> more like "if it's not in my mind, it's not happening."
[16:44] <nigelb> Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
[16:44] <jcastro> right, I personally think it's a good thing
[16:45] <jcastro> but we're certainly not android
[16:45] <nigelb> We are better than android.
[16:45] <jalcine> Android has a different situation, no?
[16:45] <nigelb> And also better than the other extreme.
[16:45] <jcastro> sure, and no one really flames them
[16:45] <jcastro> everyone is like "OMG ASOP IS OUT, YES!"
[16:45] <jcastro> if we did it that way we'd get killed.
[16:46] <nigelb> lol
[16:46] <jcastro> either way, in unity even if you're Canonical you don't get what you want.
[16:46] <jcastro> Mark dug dodge but it tested poorly, so out it went.
[16:46] <nigelb> obviously.
[16:47] <mhall119> even if you're Mark you don't get what you want (dodge)
[16:47] <jcastro> right
[16:47] <mhall119> heh
[16:47] <nigelb> haha
[16:47] <jcastro> it's like if you're going to say we're all about testing, then that includes your favorite pet features
[16:47] <nigelb> What I'm trying to say is, this what I tell people who says Ubuntu should have used Gnome3.
[16:47] <nigelb> I tell them, "so redhat can screw them around on gnome?"
[16:47] <nigelb> that shuts most people up :)
[16:47] <jcastro> and though this is a hard pill for some people to swallow, it's really what everyone has been asking for on their desktop for the past 15 years.
[16:48] <mhall119> ^^ this
[16:48] <jcastro> "I want expert people doing real user studies so I don't have a crap desktop"
[16:48] <jcastro> some people are just losing the forest for the trees
[16:48] <nigelb> People who I know used Windows for ages, now like Ubuntu better.
[16:48] <jcastro> because when you want to do that you might lose things like focus follows mouse.
[16:49] <nigelb> aww, I liked that feature ;-)
[16:49] <jcastro> most people don't even care. My wife didn't notice unity at all
[16:49] <cprofitt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C2W_O9BX4g
[16:49] <nigelb> I keeping going to the speaker thing in mac and scroll. And the realize that it doesn't work on OS X.
[16:49] <jcastro> as far as she was concerned the firefox icon got bigger
[16:49] <jcastro> she still clicks on it and types "facebook"
[16:49] <jalcine> heh
[16:50] <jcastro> and for the experts well, I'll take the pepsi challenge on our keyboard shortcuts and multitasking features vs. 10.04 every day of the week.
[16:50] <cprofitt> You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need
[16:50] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/03/06/ubuntu-global-jam-we-came-we-saw-we-jammed/#comments <- jcastro: and then there's this
[16:50] <mhall119> by far the biggest hurdle Unity has is making people drop their bad-habits from other UIs
[16:51] <jo-erlend> alanBell: quite helpful! Thanks :)
[16:51] <nigelb> okay, back to work. I hve code to finish.
[16:51] <jalcine> mhall119: +1 on that.
[16:51] <jbicha> jcastro: I agree, GNOME Classic is a bit frustrating to use for multi-tasking
[16:51] <jcastro> snap-l, ctrl-alt-t
[16:51] <jalcine> if anything, it's upgrading the mental cycle of what a UI should be in order to promote affective computing.
[16:52] <jbicha> I have to use Classic occasionally to make sure it still works
[16:52] <jcastro> that guy is pumping his chest about the command line but using menus to get to it? I don't buy that.
[16:52] <snap-l> jcastro: Feel free to post on that. ;)
[16:52] <snap-l> I know he'll read it. ;)
[16:52] <pleia2> ctrl-alt-t <3
[16:52] <mhall119> snap-l: or tap super and type "term" to see all your terminal choices
[16:53] <mhall119> again, unlearning bad habits
[16:53] <AlanBell> dpm: mhall119: to be honest the documentation could consist of "please install d-feet, and connect to the session bus and look at com.canonical.*"
[16:53] <pleia2> (I've had that binding forever anyway)
[16:53] <jalcine> Lol
[16:53] <snap-l> mhall119: Trust me, UNity is not going to make this guy happy at all
[16:53] <mhall119> AlanBell: what is d-feet?
[16:53] <snap-l> he has a stack of 486s in his basement that at some point will get used.
[16:53] <cprofitt> cntl+alt+t = termial too
[16:53] <jcastro> pleia2, I am reasonably certain that binding has existed for all of ubuntu's existance
[16:53] <AlanBell> mhall119: it is a dbus browser
[16:53] <jcastro> since we got it from gnome!
[16:53] <pleia2> cprofitt: that's what we're referring to :)
[16:53] <mhall119> snap-l: dear god man
[16:53] <cprofitt> yep
[16:53] <mhall119> AlanBell: oh nice!
[16:53] <pleia2> jcastro: I never used gnome :x
[16:53] <snap-l> What, I don't know... hopefully for something other than heating. ;)
[16:54] <cprofitt> snap-l: just have him listen to the Rolling Stones... tell him they had it right
[16:54] <cprofitt> You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need
[16:54] <jcastro> snap-l, show him this: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2011/11/01/how-i-roll/
[16:54] <jalcine> Well, this guy can always, always hit Ctrl+Alt+F1 to F6
[16:54] <snap-l> jcastro: You have posting privs. ;)
[16:54] <jcastro> no way man, I'm still on the hook for ccsm haters, this one is all you.
[16:55] <AlanBell> I am watching you jcastro ;)
[16:55] <pleia2> lol
[16:55] <mhall119> jcastro: lol, old yahoo, those were the days
[16:55] <snap-l> jcastro: You're still on the hook for breaking wireless fwcutter
[16:55] <jcastro> AlanBell, you fixed the major issues, I have no problems.
[16:55]  * snap-l hides.
[16:55] <AlanBell> :)
[16:55] <jcastro> well I have problems with it, but at least now it's not so sucky.
[16:56] <jcastro> anyway, ctrl-alt-t gets me to where I need to go, since I am now server guy
[16:56] <jcastro> all unity flames go to mhall119 now
[16:56] <AlanBell> someone should do a little patch to it to allow it to start in an "only tinker with unity" mode
[16:56]  * mhall119 puts on his fire-suit
[16:57] <mhall119> bring it
[16:57] <AlanBell> then myunity can drift off into a comfortable retirement
[16:57] <jcastro> I think myunity is a fine tool for people who want to use it.
[16:58] <mhall119> jcastro: http://www.dmoz.org/ is even still around
[16:58] <jcastro> yeah I know it's written in basic or whatever
[16:58] <jcastro> but the guy is actually working on something to make lives easier for people
[16:58] <jcastro> so for that, thumbs up from me
[16:58] <mhall119> jcastro: we can't have that
[16:58] <jalcine> Hey wait
[16:58] <jalcine> In that article, about Ubuntu being right, they say "Unity is a pure Canonical project like Android is a pure Google project"
[16:58] <jalcine> Google bought Android and open-sourced it, didn't they?
[16:59] <mhall119> they bought it, not sure if it was open source previously or not
[16:59] <mhall119> either way, he meant the current state of things
[16:59] <jalcine> ah, okay.
[16:59]  * jalcine continues.
[17:01] <pleia2> now that I read an overwhelming number of ubuntu articles to prep for UWN I realize how widespread the belief that Canonical does everything is, at first I thought I should send corrections but apparently it tends to be intentional (even after correction, they won't change titles or conclusions drawn from incorrect facts)
[17:01] <jcastro> yes, I get that all the time
[17:01] <jcastro> "my bug fixed, thanks canonical!" "no, actually that was this guy over here."
[17:02] <pleia2> buncha liars and crooks in the press ;)
[17:02] <jalcine> propaganda in F/OSS?
[17:02] <jcastro> so a while back I went to this lug and spoke
[17:03] <jcastro> and I wanted to test my theory
[17:03] <jcastro> so I didn't tell them who I worked for
[17:03] <jcastro> I just said "ubuntu"
[17:03] <jcastro> and then I did a talk and stuff
[17:03] <jcastro> and watched how people reacted.
[17:03] <jcastro> and then at the end I was like "thanks everyone for coming! I'll leave my cards here up front if you have questions" or whatever
[17:04] <nigelb> troll :P
[17:04] <jcastro> and then one guy was like "omg I didn't know you worked for canonical I wouldn't have said all those things about blah blah sucking."
[17:04] <jcastro> it's like, thanks bro!
[17:04] <pleia2> lol
[17:04] <nigelb> hahaha
[17:04] <jalcine> lolol
[17:04] <jcastro> if it would have been volunteer time, then I'm fair game I guess. lol.
[17:04] <mhall119> jcastro: then there's the other group that would have whined *more* if they knew you were Canonical
[17:05] <s-fox> my lug sucks, lol
[17:05] <nigelb> To be fair, I expected people to think "wait, you're CAnonica? Drat, I wouldn't have been so nice to you then"
[17:06] <nigelb> I commented on this bug about taking a week to fix.
[17:06] <jcastro> mhall119, sometimes that happens to me.
[17:06] <nigelb> and the guy's like "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU CANONICAL PEOPLE!?!?1111"
[17:06] <jcastro> "oh hey so since you work at canonical I thought I'd bring this bug to your attention."
[17:06] <nigelb> "Er, I'm not Canonical" "oh sorry! Carry on!"
[17:06] <jcastro> I mean, what can I say to that other than "don't worry dude, my bugs are just as ignored as yours are."
[17:07] <nigelb> lol
[17:07] <nigelb> look at all the bugs you file about LP. :P
[17:07] <nigelb> I had to fix bugs I really wanted to see fixed myself. ;-)
[17:08] <nigelb> On a positive note, I'm glad I can do that.
[17:09] <jo-erlend> jcastro, hehe :)
[17:18] <bkerensa> nigelb: https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
[17:18] <nigelb> bkerensa: *cough* I'm co-admin.
[17:18] <bkerensa> ;-p
[17:18] <nigelb> This was before the times of not-canonical
[17:19] <jalcine> O.o
[17:19] <pleia2> the best part of ~not-canonical is "Former members" :)
[17:20] <czajkowski> lol
[17:20] <nigelb> hahaha
[17:20] <nigelb> pleia2++
[17:20]  * nigelb looks at popey and czajkowski
[17:20] <jbicha> nigelb: I had someone think I was canonical last week because the not-canonical logo looked too similar
[17:21] <nigelb> jbicha: haha
[17:22] <AlanBell> pleia2: we have also had people announce they are leaving canonical by joining it :)
[17:22] <nigelb> we did?
[17:22] <nigelb> who?
[17:22] <AlanBell> wendar
[17:22] <nigelb> ah
[17:23] <popey> i deliberated so hard about when to quit that team ☺
[17:23] <jalcine> Wow. Talk about transparency.
[17:24] <jcastro> popey, well it could be worse, you could have deleted it.
[17:24] <nigelb> haha
[17:24] <pleia2> lol
[17:24] <popey> :p
[17:26] <czajkowski> poor popey you're never gonna get away from that slagging are you
[17:27]  * czajkowski had to wait till pleia2 was asleep and AlanBell not online, very hard time to find a nice time in those time frame!
[17:27] <jcastro> I live vicariously through popey
[17:33] <czajkowski> just when I get the hang of LP a new issue comes up, and feel like a newbie again, LP is MASSIVE!
[17:36] <nigelb> czajkowski: I'm admin too ;-)
[17:36] <nigelb> So, you'll not find all 3 of us asleep.
[17:36] <dholbach> alright, I'm calling it a day - see you all tomorrow
[17:36] <czajkowski> aye
[17:36] <nigelb> g'nite dholbach!
[17:37] <dholbach> bye :)
[17:37] <mhall119> where's akgraner?  It's odd to not have her around
[17:44] <bkerensa> mhall119: LinaroLand :D
[17:52] <mhall119> what? they're not doing another connect right now are they?
[17:56] <jcastro> hah, SURPRISE developer summit!!!
[17:57] <jalcine> Lol
[18:03] <jcastro> popey, x220 kernel, I think I found it.
[18:03] <jcastro> but I need you to confirm if you can
[18:04] <popey> jcastro: i haven't had the issue for ages
[18:04] <popey> but sure, mine is idle at the moment, let me know what you need
[18:06] <jcastro> that would have been awesome to have said in the bug report.
[18:07] <jcastro> popey, stock precise kernel and you're not having the issue?
[18:07] <popey> jcastro: i haven't had the issue for ages because I'm wired dude
[18:07] <popey> if I had stuff to report, I would
[18:08] <jcastro> oh, so it might still be an issue for you you just don't know?
[18:08] <popey> yeah
[18:09] <popey> plus when I did get it, it was very intermittent
[18:09]  * popey reboots and unplugs wired
[18:10] <jcastro> yeah it takes me about 24 hours to test each kernel
[18:10] <jcastro> we know the latest upstream kernel fixes it
[18:10] <jcastro> we just need to know where in the process from precise kernel to pure-upstream that happened
[18:11] <popey> ok, mine is on 3.2.0-19-generic now, what do you want me to test on it?
[18:12] <czajkowski> 136 updates
[18:12] <czajkowski> oh joy
[18:12] <czajkowski> I did 84 last night
[18:12] <popey> \o/ fixes
[18:12] <czajkowski> wonder will it fix my power issue icon again
[18:12] <popey> wassup with it?
[18:12] <czajkowski> it seems to come and go these days 3 weeks working 1 week fecked
[18:13] <czajkowski> when it's unplugged and discharging it's not shwowing it correctly
[18:13] <czajkowski> shows me 2 hrs left
[18:13] <czajkowski> then empty really fast
[18:13] <czajkowski> where as before it was a lot more gradual
[18:15] <czajkowski> bbiab need to EOD report
[18:16] <jcastro> popey, the very last post he posts, has a link to the kernel I tested on
[18:16] <jcastro> install it, boot into it, put in the bug if the wireless sucks
[18:17] <jcastro> if it works awesome then just say that
[18:17] <jcastro> and then we'll keep going
[18:19] <cprofitt> jcastro: wish I could help, but I no longer have access to an X220 -- is it a certain model of Intel wireless or just the Lenovo?
[18:20] <jcastro> I think it's just the x220
[18:20] <jcastro> I am getting  somewhere, it's just the cycle takes so long
[18:33] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[19:22] <hggdh> cjohnston: ping
[19:23] <cjohnston> hggdh: pong
[20:04] <greg-g> LoCo Council meeting happening in #ubuntu-meeting
[20:32] <popey> haha mhall119 engaging with the troll
[20:34] <czajkowski> where!
[20:35] <jcastro> popey, URL
[20:35] <popey> G+
[20:36]  * nigelb goes to watch fireworks
[20:36] <popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/H7UvL3bUuue
[20:36] <jcastro> oh
[20:36] <jcastro> that guy
[20:36] <jcastro> shrug
[20:37] <nigelb> lol
[20:37] <czajkowski> which guy only see mhall119
[20:37] <czajkowski> dont see all 7 comments
[20:38] <nigelb> I'm guessing you were at some point sensible enough to block someone :-)
[20:38] <czajkowski> oh I've a few people bloked :)
[20:38] <czajkowski> got tired of their stuff blokcing up my stream
[20:38] <czajkowski> now I can enjoy :)
[20:39] <nigelb> hehe
[20:39] <popey> he's just so damned rude
[20:42] <snap-l> I think he's one of the reasons none of you hang out on identi.ca. ;)
[20:42] <snap-l> Which is unfortunate, because I think he canned his account there.
[20:42] <snap-l> http://identi.ca/fabsh
[20:42] <snap-l> Yep.
[20:42] <mhall119> I never hung out on identi.ca because it was like a deserted version of twitter, which I also don't hang out on
[20:43] <snap-l> It's only as deserted as you make it. ;)
[20:43] <mhall119> well like I said, I don't use twitter either, so...
[20:44] <snap-l> your loss. ;)
[20:46] <mhall119> what I lose in content I gain in time ;)
[20:46] <czajkowski> mhall119: multitask :)
[20:46] <snap-l> czajkowski: ++
[20:47] <cjohnston> I don't find much content on twitter thats different enough than whats on FB to bother with both.
[20:48] <mhall119> czajkowski: i *do* multi-task
[20:48] <cjohnston> and the only thing I can find good about g+ is hangouts :-/
[20:48] <mhall119> I need another core so I can properly multi-process rather than context switching all the time
[20:49] <snap-l> cjohnston: That's a no-brainer for me: I don't use Facebook
[20:49] <cjohnston> your loss ;-)
[20:49] <snap-l> cjohnston: Trust me, no loss
[20:49] <czajkowski> different tools I guess
[20:50] <cjohnston> yup
[20:50] <czajkowski> I stopped using identi.ca due to fab and bradly it just got too noisy
[20:50] <popey> meh, they all have their uses
[20:50] <czajkowski> twitter is fun
[20:50] <czajkowski> facebook I get to keep up with non oss folks
[20:50] <czajkowski> and G+ is good for hangouts and reading articles
[20:50] <czajkowski> and irc for all you charming folks!
[20:53] <snap-l> czajkowski: fab is gone
[20:54] <popey> identica is still full of lunatics
[20:54] <popey> always was
[20:54] <snap-l> popey: I resemble that remark. :)
[20:55] <nigelb> I first read, "I resent that remark"
[20:55] <nigelb> lol
[20:55] <snap-l> But yeah, that really makes me angry. Seemed like it wass a pecker-measuring contest for how FOSS you could be
[20:56] <snap-l> and in the end it killed it for lots of folks.
[20:56]  * snap-l is still holding out hope
[20:57] <mhall119> for me, Facebook is personal and G+ is work/community
[20:58] <greg-g> Just be careful who you follow, as with anywhere :)
[20:58] <greg-g> I mean, do you see me following snap-l on identi.ca? hecks no
[20:58] <popey> hah
[20:58] <jcastro> except with G+ you can have a "idiot" circle
[20:58] <jcastro> and to me, that is worth it right there
[20:58] <mhall119> mine is called "haters"
[20:58] <greg-g> why?
[20:58] <popey> I call it "gimps" but yeah
[20:59] <jcastro> mine is actually a combination of swears, but you get the idea.
[20:59] <greg-g> oh, just to call people names, yeah, THAT's the feature identi.ca lacks, passive aggressive hating ;)
[20:59] <popey> :D
[21:00] <jcastro> forums down for anyone right now?
[21:00] <popey> nope
[21:00] <jcastro> hmm, something wonky going on there
[21:00] <mhall119> jcastro: they banned you
[21:00] <snap-l> No, sadly they're still up. ;)
[21:00] <snap-l> jcastro: Wishful thinking, I suppose. ;)
[21:00] <mhall119> snap-l: don't say that too loudly around popey
[21:01] <popey> hahah snap-l
[21:02]  * snap-l wishes we could all just use Usenet and get it over with.
[21:02] <snap-l> NNTP-4-LYFE!
[21:03] <mhall119> who needs DNS when I can enter ever website I care about in my /etc/hosts file?
[21:04] <snap-l> mhall119: As long as it contains usenet.ubuntu.com, then yes. :)
[21:04] <greg-g> "/etc/hosts, the original bookmark"
[21:05] <snap-l> Yeah, I know, I'm an old fart who liked usenet
[21:06] <popey> I do love randomly writing text and via magic it turns out to be exactly 140 chars long
[21:06] <mhall119> and who needs wordpress when geocities lets you run your own webpage?
[21:06] <snap-l> Instead of having 500 forum accounts, I had one usenet account
[21:06] <popey> forums suck, everyone knows that
[21:06] <popey> [FACT]
[21:06] <snap-l> mhall119: Ah, different usecase
[21:07] <mhall119> snap-l: don't ruin my sarcasm with facts!
[21:07] <snap-l> mhall119: Dude, I haven't even taped up my glasses to rebuff that inaccuracy.
[21:17] <jalcine> Ever kick back too far in a wheelie chair in front of your computer and just fall?
[21:19] <mhall119> no, never
[21:19]  * mhall119 looks around
[23:28] <s-fox> Hello :)