[00:16] <Odd-rationale> AlexCONRAD: jockey i think...
[00:16] <AlexCONRAD> Odd-rationale: yes, thanks, someone pointed me that: jockey-gtk
[00:20] <Willeth> hey all, i'm using a toshiba gigabeat f40 DAP with rocbox installed, and it doesn't seem to want to mount under eeexubuntu - can anyone give me any pointers?
[00:51] <lsemple2> what is the command to start xfce ???
[01:01] <The_Kernel> Anyone buy those Dell laptops wit Ubuntu on 'em?
[01:01] <The_Kernel> zoredache didn't you say that you bought one?
[01:07] <zoredache> yes
[01:07] <zoredache> I have an inspiron 1505
[01:07] <The_Kernel> OK
[01:07] <The_Kernel> The one I plan to get
[01:08] <The_Kernel> or...rather...the 1525N is the one I'm getting
[01:56] <bullium> does the window manager allow you to change the keyboard shortcuts, or is it just a "view only" screen?
[01:57] <bullium> nevermind I got it :) just use the add function and add a custom theme
[01:57] <bullium> thanks anyway'
[02:03] <xTOGx> i just got xubuntu installed.  how do i get the gui to work?
[02:03] <xTOGx> i'm getting a -bash: startx: command not found
[02:04] <bullium> xTOGx, did the install complete without any errors?
[02:04] <xTOGx> it wouldn't do the software bit
[02:06] <xTOGx> is there a way i can finish that now?
[02:08] <bullium> was your network connection not detected during the install?
[02:11] <xTOGx> network connection went fine
[02:11] <xTOGx> i'm pretty sure it's connected now
[02:11] <xTOGx> not sure how to tell
[02:15] <bullium> type sudo ifconfig -a what is the output of that?
[02:19] <keeleyt83> i can log into xubuntu but the desktop doesn't appear to load. can anyone help?
[02:20] <keeleyt83> im running 8.04
[02:22] <bullium> keeleyt83, what kind of error do you get. what are the steps you are taking to see if the gui can be manually started?
[02:24] <keeleyt83> i dont get any error. whenever i login normally, the harddrive is spinning like its working but then it stops and nothing loads. the cursor is there but nothing else
[02:24] <keeleyt83> ive tried starting gnome-safe but the same thing
[02:24] <keeleyt83> im rather new to linux so i havent tried to start manually
[02:25] <bullium> tail /var/log/Xorg.0.log what is the output of that?
[02:26] <keeleyt83> k 1 sec
[02:28] <keeleyt83> says no such file or directory. i ran it as root from recovery mode, fyi
[02:29] <bullium> keeleyt83, oh ok, just whereis tail and see if it's on your system
[02:30] <bullium> your probably using busybox though right?
[02:30] <bullium> I mean it's a recovery console
[02:30] <keeleyt83> yeah im in the recovery console
[02:30] <bullium> so you'll have limited commands
[02:30] <bullium> just a second
[02:30] <keeleyt83> i think i have it
[02:30] <keeleyt83> usr/bin/tail
[02:31] <keeleyt83> and then the man
[02:32] <keeleyt83> i'd try the terminal-safe session but i get the same result as a default session
[02:35] <bullium> keeleyt83, sounds like it's having some issues with the video drivers or something...what kind of system/hardware
[02:36] <keeleyt83> sony vaio laptop. vgn-s360
[02:36] <keeleyt83> hmm it was fine until recently. ive been doing all the updates. nothing out of the ordinary
[02:37] <bullium> keeleyt83, oh so your system has been working?
[02:37] <keeleyt83> had been working :)
[02:37] <bullium> keeleyt83, this isn't a new install...sorry
[02:37] <keeleyt83> thats correct. np
[02:37] <bullium> so did you just do an update and reboot or something?
[02:39] <keeleyt83> i don't believe so. my wife was using it and she said no. she did say that she was running firefox (3, rc2) with a number of tabs open (no idea where she was) and that she didnt close ff before she shut down the machine (using the menu).
[02:39] <keeleyt83> that sounds pretty harmless though
[02:41] <bullium> keeleyt83, yeah I agree it seems very harmless...and this is a xubuntu machine wright
[02:42] <bullium> keeleyt83, I scrolled up u are no need to answer
[02:42] <keeleyt83> ok
[02:43] <bullium> let read your original post again to see if I don't get anymore ides...just a sec
[02:43] <keeleyt83> k
[02:44] <bullium> so you get the graphical login prompt?
[02:44] <keeleyt83> yes. and whenever i type in my username and password it starts to login
[02:45] <keeleyt83> then i get a solid light blue background, like i normally get for a few seconds before the background image comes in, but it just stops there
[02:45] <keeleyt83> the mouse cursor is there and responsive
[02:45] <bullium> ok, do you have more than one username setup on that maching?
[02:45] <bullium> machine
[02:45] <keeleyt83> no
[02:46] <keeleyt83> oh and it asks for my default keyring. thats the last thing it does
[02:46] <keeleyt83> nm-applet asks for it. normally does that
[02:47] <bullium> huh...seems like he desktop manager is loading all of the way but the panels are not...
[02:47] <keeleyt83> could be
[02:48] <keeleyt83> when i press c+a+del, it "locks" the desktop. don't know if thats helpful. all other keyboard stuff doesnt seem to work
[02:49] <bullium> if you hit CTRL+ALT+F2 do you get a chance to login?
[02:49] <keeleyt83> yes
[02:49] <keeleyt83> k i have a prompt
[02:49] <bullium> login and see if you can run top and see the panels process runnin
[02:50] <bullium> running
[02:50] <keeleyt83> i logged in but im in the terminal. how do i get to the gui?
[02:54] <bullium> i'm not sure if startx will work or not
[02:55] <keeleyt83> ill try it. i just did an apt-get update just in case. restarting now
[02:56] <keeleyt83> ooh. fatal server error: server is already running for display 0.
[02:58] <bullium> ok that means it's running...hit CTRL+ALT+F7 to go back to the running screen
[02:59] <keeleyt83> k
[02:59] <bullium> do you have the mouse and does it respond?
[03:00] <keeleyt83> i have the mouse but the same issue. for a second, the top of my screen looked messed up, like when you have bad video drivers or a bad resolution. but then it went away after 2 seconds
[03:03] <bullium> yeah, mine does that too...hit ALT+F2 do you get the run program?
[03:03] <keeleyt83> yes
[03:04] <keeleyt83> i can start mousepad
[03:04] <keeleyt83> thunar even
[03:04] <bullium> try xfce4-panel
[03:05] <keeleyt83> yah! its back
[03:05] <keeleyt83> no background though
[03:05] <keeleyt83> strange
[03:06] <bullium> I'm not sure off of the top of my head which app runs the background...
[03:06] <keeleyt83> i was playing with the panel about a week ago. nothing special, though. i just added some launchers for applications
[03:07] <keeleyt83> can i return it to its default settings so maybe it doesnt happen again?
[03:07] <bullium> I'm not sure we fixed it...we are just able to start it manually
[03:07] <keeleyt83> thats true
[03:08] <bullium> I'm not sure restoring it to default will fix it...if you don't have alot of customization you could restore it to defaults to see what happens
[03:08] <keeleyt83> ok
[03:09] <keeleyt83> how do i restore it to defaults?
[03:09] <bullium> lol I knew you were going to ask me...not sure...let me see if I can't figure it out
[03:10] <keeleyt83> k ill look too
[03:10] <zoredache> on quick way is to simply create a new account and copy your files over to the other account
[03:10] <zoredache> or copy all the config files from the new account back to the old one
[03:10] <bullium> keeleyt83, you may want to read up on file:///usr/share/xfce4/doc/C/xfce4-panel.html#panel-intro to see if you can figure out what steps are not working
[03:11] <keeleyt83> i just restarted my machine and the panel is back
[03:11] <bullium> keeleyt83, cool
[03:11] <keeleyt83> ive got it set to save the session for next startup, maybe thats what did it
[03:12] <bullium> thats possible...do you like that feature?
[03:13] <keeleyt83> lol i suppose. i hadn't really noticed it until now. i thought i had it set to start a new session each time.
[03:13] <bullium> I was just wondering
[03:14] <keeleyt83> np. i love xubuntu. wish i would have installed it on my desktop. very light and zippy.
[03:14] <keeleyt83> my wife's laptop really dogged it whenever i had ubuntu on there
[03:15] <bullium> keeleyt83, I really like it as well...runs very fast on this dell 1.2GHZ laptop with 512MB of ram
[03:15] <bullium> keeleyt83, yeah ubuntu is a heavier on system resources
[03:15] <keeleyt83> yeah. i like gnome but ive heard its kinda heavyweight
[03:16] <bullium> keeleyt83, I run it on newer hardware, but xubuntu is great for me...I'm a huge linux geek anymore
[03:17] <bullium> keeleyt83, freedom is a great thing
[03:18] <keeleyt83> i hear you. was a windows user until about november. id started using a lot more opensource stuff and was really digging it. now im running ubuntu on my home machines and just signed on as a jEdit developer :)
[03:20] <keeleyt83> hmm this is interesting. i just went to settings manager>desktop>allow xfce to manage the desktop, and now all my desktop icons and background are back
[03:21] <bullium> keeleyt83, so that must have been misconfigured or something...
[03:21] <keeleyt83> should xfce manage it by default?
[03:22] <bullium> I would think so...were is that setting and I'll tell you what mines set to
[03:22] <keeleyt83> settings manager>desktop
[03:22] <bullium> k
[03:23] <bullium> yeah mine is checked
[03:23] <keeleyt83> ah ok. ill have to watch for that.
[03:23] <keeleyt83> well i appreciate all your help, bullium. id like to see anyone get help like this for windows :)
[03:24] <bullium> that would be unchecked if you were running compiz-fusion or something...thats the desktop manager that lets you have the fancy desktop effects
[03:24] <keeleyt83> ah i c. i dont use any of those
[03:25] <bullium> keeleyt83, than I'd say thats what your issue was...
[03:25] <keeleyt83> alright. well thanks for all your help bullium.
[03:26] <bullium> keeleyt83, no problem on the help have a good night
[03:26] <keeleyt83> you too
[03:26] <bullium> yep
[03:47] <alan___> Hi, would anyone be willing to help me figure out a networking issue?
[03:48] <vidd> alan___, sure....ask away
[03:49] <alan___> So I type sudo smbmount //<IP_ADDRESS>/share sharemac/
[03:49] <alan___>  into my xbuntu machine and get, mount error 13 = Permission denied, what's that mean?
[03:50] <alan___> (the goal is to connect to my iMac from the lan connected xubuntu computer)
[03:50] <vidd> it would appear that your mac is not giving your xubuntu permission to access the file
[03:52] <alan___> Hmm, ok.  So I just double checked my preferences and windows file sharing is enabled.
[03:53] <alan___> And the usernames match up.  Why else would the mac deny access?
[03:53] <vidd> im not a smb expert....i ftp stuff inside my network
[03:55] <alan___> ok, thanks for your help.  I'll keep chugging along.
[03:55] <steven_> hey everyone
[03:55] <vidd> hello steven_
[03:56] <steven_> how can i monitor cpu temp in xubuntu?
[03:57] <steven_> ii'm stumped
[03:59] <vidd> have you searched through sysnaptic?
[04:00] <vidd> the "find" feature israther useful
[04:00] <steven_> off and on
[04:00] <steven_> i've used acpi -t
[04:00] <steven_> but
[04:00] <steven_> i want a panel app
[04:00] <steven_> any ideas?
[04:02] <vidd> nothing jumps to mind
[04:03] <duallain> this thread has someone asking the same question:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=636857
[04:03] <vidd> cpu temp was never really anything i cared about =]
[04:03] <steven_> yeah
[04:03] <steven_> well i use bittorrent
[04:03] <steven_> and it runs my cpu at 100%
[04:03] <steven_> for a while
[04:03] <steven_> and i want to monitor the temp
[04:03] <steven_> make sure fan is working and all
[04:04] <vidd> did you do a search in synaptic?
[04:05] <steven_> going
[04:05] <steven_> gonna try xfce-sensors-plugin
[04:05] <steven_> it seems to work
[04:06] <steven_> hey another question
[04:06] <vidd> yeah?
[04:06] <steven_> anyone in here have a tablet pc?
[04:06] <steven_> i think it's just you and me vidd lol
[04:07] <vidd> not for long....i need to hit the rack
[04:07] <steven_> yeah it'slate
[04:16] <Odd-rationale> steven_: i have a tablet, so does cody
[04:16] <steven_> cody does?
[04:16] <steven_> good!
[04:16] <steven_> is there a way to adjust pressure on tablet?
[04:17] <Odd-rationale> steven_: you might find some usefule things on this wiki page i wrote: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Tablet_PC
[04:17] <steven_> and i would like a onscreen keyboard to be present for graphical login
[04:17] <Odd-rationale> that in the wiki page ^
[04:17] <Odd-rationale> you need CellWriter, and a plain gdm theme.
[04:17] <Odd-rationale> see the last section...
[04:17] <steven_> i tried cellwriter
[04:18] <steven_> how long does it take to get it to recognize?
[04:18] <Odd-rationale> how long does what take?
[04:18] <steven_> to get cellwriter to recognize my handsriting?
[04:19] <steven_> i tried for a whike
[04:19] <steven_> *while
[04:19] <steven_> i gave up too soon i think
[04:19] <Odd-rationale> steven_: not long. you just need to write each letter once...
[04:19] <steven_> if ubuntu taught me anything, it's keep trying
[04:19] <steven_> LOL
[04:19] <Odd-rationale> but for gdm, you would want to use cellwriter as a keyboard
[04:20] <Odd-rationale> see the wiki page i posted. it is in there.
[04:20] <Odd-rationale> most should be the same for ubuntu.
[04:20] <steven_> okay thx
[04:20] <Odd-rationale> i gtg 2 zzz...
[04:21] <Odd-rationale> have fun!!
[04:32] <MrNaz> if i have a stalled application, how do i kill it, if i dont know the process name? ive got a stuck thunar session which i cant close, but ps aux |grep thunar   brings up nothing
[04:47] <steven_> thanks it worked perfectly
[05:25] <steven_> any ?'s
[05:26] <efpc2003> hi
[05:29] <steven_> what's goin on?
[09:56] <Trackilizer> Hi guys, need your help. Just installed xubuntu and so far its great. However Xubuntu doesn't automatically mount my Fat32 drive.
[09:59] <Trackilizer> The thing is the drive i want to mount doesn't show up in "/etc/fstab" but i know its there because i can access it as soon as i switch to gnome.
[10:01] <Myrtti> if it's not in /etc/fstab then it's not there
[10:02] <Myrtti> The automounting is a separate process from /etc/fstab
[10:02] <Myrtti> as you've noticed
[10:02] <Trackilizer> But it shows up when i use this command "sudo fdisk -l"
[10:02]  * Myrtti looks at her empty coffee mug
[10:02] <Trackilizer>   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
[10:02] <Trackilizer> /dev/sdb1   *           1       14596   117242338+   c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
[10:10] <ablomen> Trackilizer, sudo mkdir /media/fat <enter> sudo chown USERNAME:USERNAME /media/fat <enter> sudo nano /etc/fstab <enter> add the line: /dev/sdb1 /media/fat vfat defaults 0 0
[10:11] <ablomen> (replace USERNAME to your username on the computer)
[10:11] <ablomen> after that, save and exit, then you can mount it without rebooting with sudo mount /media/fat and the next time you boot it will be automagicly mounted
[10:12] <ablomen> Myrtti, i know the feeling
[10:12]  * ablomen runs to make new coffee
[10:16] <Trackilizer> Thanks a lot ablomen, that seemed to do the trick.
[10:16] <ablomen> np :)
[10:17] <Myrtti> though, I've got noauto,user
[10:18] <Trackilizer> Oh! i still can't write to the disk. Just read.
[10:18] <ablomen> Trackilizer, you did chown the dir?
[10:18] <Trackilizer> Yes
[10:19] <ablomen> Myrtti, yeah but that only means dont mount on mount -a and let the user be able to mount it
[10:19] <Myrtti> it also means it won't try to mount it on boot automatically
[10:19] <ablomen> yeah :)
[10:19] <Myrtti> ie. if the device is absent, as is the case often with usb sticks, external harddrives and so on
[10:20] <ablomen> Trackilizer, hmm and if you do ls -l /media/ does it say that your the owner?
[10:20] <Trackilizer> drwxr-xr-x 13 root root 32768 1970-01-01 01:00 fat
[10:21] <ablomen> heh ok so that didnt go right
[10:21] <ablomen> whats your username?
[10:21] <Trackilizer> erhard
[10:21] <ablomen> ok type: sudo chown erhard:erhard /media/fat
[10:22] <Trackilizer> chown: changing ownership of `/media/fat': Operation not permitted
[10:22] <ablomen> did you use sudo?
[10:22] <Trackilizer> Yes
[10:22] <ablomen> hmm
[10:23] <ablomen> ok try sudo umount /media/fat and then the last command again
[10:24] <Trackilizer> Yes, it worked. I assume i have to mount the drive again?
[10:24] <ablomen> yeah
[10:26] <Trackilizer> Still can't write, tried using nautilus but doesn't work either.
[10:26] <ablomen> hmm
[10:26] <ablomen> oh
[10:28] <ablomen> Myrtti, you know this?: would it be the that vfat doesnt have any rights-management stuff etc so linux just gives rights on the mount for the username that mounted it?
[10:28] <Myrtti> that might be it
[10:28] <ablomen> Trackilizer, try putting that noauto,user after defaults on the sdb1 line in fstab
[10:30] <Trackilizer> No, still can't write.
[10:30] <ablomen> so you get: /dev/sdb1 /media/fat vfat defaults,noauto,user 0 0
[10:30] <Trackilizer> Yes
[10:30] <ablomen> then unmount it (sudo unmount /media/fat)
[10:31] <ablomen> and then mount in again _without_ sudo (so just: mount /media/fat)
[10:32] <Trackilizer> YES! Thanks alot!! that did it! And it will automatically do this every time i boot?
[10:33] <Myrtti> Trackilizer: is this harddrive that you're mounting external or internal?
[10:33] <Trackilizer> internal
[10:33] <Myrtti> in that case... hold on
[10:34] <ablomen> well not on boot, but afaik when you click it in nautilus it should automaticly mount now, and otherwise you can add the mount /media/fat command in settings-manager->autostarted applications
[10:34] <Myrtti> first, replace noauto with just auto
[10:34] <ablomen> Myrtti, wouldnt it mount it as root again then? on boot..
[10:35] <Myrtti> hold on, reading man mount
[10:36] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[10:37] <Trackilizer> I just added the command to the autostarted applications, I'll reboot now and see how it goes. Thanks a lot guys.
[10:39] <ablomen> Myrtti, heh yeah its a big manpage
[11:09] <jarnos> Why do I have http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ in each new Firefox 3 window after last update?
[11:11] <Myrtti> jarnos: because that is the default homepage in firefox?
[11:12] <jarnos> Myrtti: I think I got empty page instead before the last update. (I had problems in quitting FF after the update even it was requested; I used System monitor eventually.)
[11:48] <jarnos> Myrtti: But I guess Google is paying for Mozilla foundation to get their search engine popped up in Firefox.
[11:48] <Myrtti> jarnos: infact, that's the main source of revenue for Mozilla
[11:51] <jarnos> Myrtti: I see. Shame that the page is not specifically made for xubuntu, but (gnome) ubuntu.
[11:52] <Myrtti> hm odd
[11:57] <ablomen> it should point you to a page on the local filesystem?
[11:58] <ablomen> (which is a xubuntu page)
[12:09] <Myrtti> it shoudl
[12:09] <Myrtti> perhaps they'd know more at #ubuntu-mozilla
[15:29] <Riotta> I wanna switch from xubuntu 32bit to 64bit is there any cons of such switch except flash and java ?
[15:29] <Riotta> you think that it's worth switching even if I have less than 4gb of ram
[15:29] <Riotta> and Linux is my only system
[15:30] <Rioting_pacifist> flash full screen worked fine under gutsy with kwin (not with compiz) under hardy it tears alot (both with kwin & compiz) im on an ATI system using accelerated drivers if its relevant
[15:31] <Riotta> tbh ati can be a problem itself Rioting_pacifist
[15:31] <Riotta> their drivers are getting better everyday but are generally buggy
[15:32] <Riotta> you could upgrade flash to 10beta
[15:32] <Riotta> and check if that help
[15:32] <Rioting_pacifist> no help, although i have noticed cpu usage drop a bit
[15:34] <Riotta> well the strategy with ati is wait for new drivers and update, update, update
[15:34] <Rioting_pacifist> ahh so its probably driver related?
[15:35] <Riotta> I think so
[15:35] <Riotta> maybe bug in randar operations in the dirvers
[16:39] <jarnos> Still about the Firefox home page: I made about:blank homepage in preferences and now everything is fine again.
[17:25] <persi> hello, xubuntu loaded without any bars
[17:25] <persi> reboot didnt help
[17:25] <persi> *cries*
[17:27] <TheSheep> persi: press alt+f2 and type 'xfce4-panel
[17:27] <TheSheep> '
[17:27] <AlexCONRAD> hi, is there a tool to show which package provides what ? instead of asking every time "which package contains nm-tool" ?
[17:27] <TheSheep> without the quoates
[17:27] <TheSheep> quotes
[17:28] <persi> thanks, it worked, what was wrong with it?
[17:28] <zoredache_> AlexCONRAD: http://packages.ubuntu.com/ has that information
[17:29] <Myrtti> AlexCONRAD: apt-file
[17:29] <TheSheep> persi: the panel must have crashed for some reason. it sometimes does that on low ram systems
[17:30] <persi> wow thats offensive, i have whole 256 megs!
[17:30] <persi> heh thanks
[17:32] <AlexCONRAD> Myrtti: great, thanks, that's a pain killer
[17:33] <AlexCONRAD> and thanks zoredache for this ressource
[17:33] <AlexCONRAD> its very helpful as well
[17:38] <AlexCONRAD> this apt-file search/find thing should really be included in the apt-get app IMO
[17:41] <zoredache> AlexCONRAD: I think a couple reasons why it is not is because the databases it creates for the file lists can get big.  And not many people really need that functionality.
[17:42] <AlexCONRAD> well, maybe at least the binaries
[17:42] <AlexCONRAD> well, I get your point anyway
[18:17] <AlexCONRAD> what do I need to install to have the screensaver buttun under the xfce settings manager ?
[18:19] <Odd-rationale> AlexCONRAD: xscreensaver, or gnome-screensaver
[18:19] <Odd-rationale> i think gnome-screensaver is preinstalled with xubuntu....
[18:20] <AlexCONRAD> Odd-rationale: yes, but i'm making a custom xubuntu from scratch, and trying to pin down which packages I need
[18:20] <AlexCONRAD> thanks, I'll have a look at these
[18:23] <Odd-rationale> AlexCONRAD: if you want lightwieght, go with xscreensaver
[18:24] <AlexCONRAD> it's mostly for 3D testing
[18:24] <AlexCONRAD> I actually won't install it on the CD
[18:24] <AlexCONRAD> but its has more or less complexe 3D stuff
[18:24] <AlexCONRAD> with my ATI card
[19:48] <kibibyte> hi
[19:49] <kibibyte> do you know any samba shares browser
[19:49] <kibibyte> for xubuntu
[19:50] <vinnl> kibibyte, this might help: http://www.google.com/search?q=xubuntu%20samba%20browsing
[19:50] <vinnl> There are some good solutions online I believe
[19:51] <kibibyte> ok
[19:51] <kibibyte> which one you use
[19:51] <vinnl> I don't use any, but I know others have
[19:51] <vinnl> (With success)
[19:52] <vinnl> Oh, and I thought there were plans to add native support for Xubuntu 8.10, but you'd have to ask cody-somerville
[19:53] <kibibyte> ok
[19:54] <Riotta> wow 64bit xubuntu is such painless I thought it gonna be more tricky to install flash and java and win-codecs
[19:54] <vinnl> Nice :)
[19:55] <kibibyte> i thought there is no flash for 64 bit
[19:55] <vinnl> There isn't
[19:55] <Riotta> it's working by wrapper program
[19:55] <vinnl> nspluginwrapper, right?
[19:55] <Riotta> but without any performance degadation
[19:55] <Riotta> yes
[19:55] <kibibyte> and whay about shockwave
[19:56] <vinnl> Hehe, bow to my infinite knowledge :)
[19:56] <Riotta> even it was installed automaticly when I installed flash-nonfree for my browser from repos
[19:56] <vinnl> kibibyte, that's not possible natively unfortunately :(
[19:56] <kibibyte> and whay about shockwave
[19:56] <kibibyte> ;/
[19:56] <vinnl> Though I believe you can do that with Wine, but I'm not sure
[19:57] <Riotta> I'm just amazed how switft is xubuntu 64 bit I remember some versions ago that there was reall pain to run 32 apps and stuff
[19:59] <zoredache> kibibyte: fusesmb is pretty easy to setup.  autofs is good, particularly with an executable mount map
[19:59] <kibibyte> ok
[20:09] <v0lksman> hey all....anyone know why the -19 revision of the kernel (in proposed) would kill sound?  I installed linux-headers and linux-image...should I have updated anything else?
[20:10] <gaurdro> do you have other updates?
[20:11] <gaurdro> on a side note,  how stable is -proposed?
[20:12] <Jeren> Greetings
[20:13] <Jeren> I just installed Xubuntu 8.04. I have correctly configured the network settings (identical to what I had on my Xubuntu 7.10 machine). I can ping and access local IPs but am unable to connect to internet sites. Any ideas why?
[20:14] <Riotta> ye
[20:14] <Riotta> edit resolv.conf with the same info as you have in other computer
[20:14] <Jeren> what is in that file?
[20:14] <Riotta> probably didn't catched dns
[20:14] <Riotta> servers
[20:14] <Jeren> I updated the DNS info in the Network manager thingy
[20:15] <Jeren> As well as the static IP info.
[20:15] <v0lksman> gaurdro: there are 76 other updates but I don't want them all...Just the kernel cause I heard it (and have confirmed it fixes suspend on my laptop)....
[20:15] <Jeren> By the way, I just installed 8.04 over 7.10, so I have no other resolv.conf file to compare it with
[20:15] <Riotta> network manager isn't so good for configuring it has it's flaws see if the file isnt empty
[20:15] <Jeren> One moment.
[20:15] <v0lksman> hrm..not sure what happened to that last line...
[20:16] <gaurdro> there's probably an alsa package that you need as well.
[20:17] <v0lksman> hrm...yeah actually I checked for Pulse updates but forgot that xcfe still uses alsa...will check...thanks!
[20:17] <Jeren> Riotta: resolv.conf has one line. "nameserver " and then its followed by our DNS IP
[20:17] <Willeth> does anyone here have experience using rockbox with xubuntu?
[20:17] <Riotta> well maybe reboot or restart your modem
[20:17] <Jeren> Other computers in the office are online fine
[20:17] <Jeren> Including the one I'm on now
[20:19] <Riotta> it should be fine I bet it didn't refresh dns entry somehow
[20:19] <Jeren> I just finished installation a few minutes ago. The DNS information should be fresh.
[20:20] <v0lksman> gaurdro: no updates to alsa in proposed...
[20:21] <Jeren> I doubt its a firewall issue, as I said I can already access local IP addresses with ease.
[20:22] <Riotta> I had once similar problem
[20:22] <Jeren> How did you resolve it?
[20:22] <Riotta> and I restarted modem and it worked fine then
[20:22] <Riotta> try rebooting maybe or it didn't helped ?
[20:22] <Jeren> I rebooted the system twice already.
[20:23] <Riotta> k
[20:23] <zoredache> Jeren: are you sure you got the default gateway set correctly?
[20:23] <Riotta> how you are connecting to the network ?
[20:23] <Riotta> by ethernet card ?
[20:24] <Jeren> The network information is correct, yes. The Static IP, Gateway, and Mask are all accurate.
[20:24] <Jeren> Yes
[20:24] <Riotta> you know the brand of that card ?
[20:24] <zoredache> have you tried doing a traceroute?
[20:25] <v0lksman> can you ping anything by IP offnet (IE out of your LAN)...?
[20:25] <Jeren> One sec
[20:25] <v0lksman> <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:25] <v0lksman> dats google... ;)
[20:25] <Jeren> The server's in the back end of the office
[20:25] <Jeren> I'll be right back
[20:26] <Jeren> That IP is unreachable.
[20:27] <Jeren> The brand of the card is... NetGear, I believe.
[20:27] <Jeren> Its worked fine for the past three months
[20:27] <zoredache> do a traceroute now instead of a ping to see where it is failing
[20:27] <zoredache> so 'mtr <IP_ADDRESS>'
[20:27] <Jeren> Same IP?
[20:27] <Jeren> Google's?
[20:27] <v0lksman> yep...that would do
[20:28] <zoredache> doesn't really matter... anything outside your network that is up and allows icmp will give useful results
[20:29] <Jeren> The "My Traceroute" screen comes up, but no data goes into the table.
[20:31] <v0lksman> can you try command line?  not sure what you are looking at....can you also try to ping you gateway while you are there....
[20:32] <zoredache> you said you staticly set your address?  Are you completely sure that nothing else on your network is using the same address?
[20:32] <TheSheep> use arping to find out
[20:32] <Jeren> Yes, I am.
[20:33] <Jeren> I'll give that a go.
[20:33] <v0lksman> brb...
[20:33] <Jeren> How can I do a traceroute without mtr, by the way?
[20:33] <TheSheep> Jeren: tracepath
[20:35] <Jeren> Thanks. brb
[20:37] <Jeren> Ok...
[20:37] <Jeren> Tracepath said "send failed"
[20:37] <v0lksman> sweet...got sound back..missed a couple kernel updates that were needed...
[20:37] <Jeren> Arping gave me a warning: "Interface is ignored: Operation not permitted"
[20:38] <v0lksman> were you able to ping your gateway?
[20:39] <TheSheep> Jeren: sudo
[20:41] <Jeren> One sec
[20:41] <Jeren> Pinging my gateway is fine
[20:43] <Jeren> Same response for Tracepath
[20:43] <Jeren> Arping, 50 probes sent, 0 responses
[20:44] <zoredache> can you tell us what your ip address/mask/gw is?
[20:44] <zoredache> feel free to say no if it isn't rfc1918 space
[20:45] <Jeren> Its nothing that'd breach security ;)
[20:46] <Jeren> Static ip: <IP_ADDRESS> / Mask: <IP_ADDRESS> / GW: <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:46] <xxTheSaintxx> Hello guys, My network is *Fucked* wireless people cannot connect to it
[20:46] <xxTheSaintxx> Just wondering if anyone knew what to do/
[20:46] <zoredache> so if you use the command 'route -n' do you see anything with a destination of '<IP_ADDRESS>'
[20:47] <xxTheSaintxx> im on windows atm
[20:47] <xxTheSaintxx> But i got a xubuntu lappy
[20:47] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: ping
[20:47] <xxTheSaintxx> but all wireless computers cannot connect
[20:47] <xxTheSaintxx> Thats why we got to use enthernet lead
[20:48] <TheSheep> xxTheSaintxx: looks like some trouble with the access point or beyound
[20:48] <xxTheSaintxx> How would ya fix that?
[20:48] <cody-somerville> The_Kernel, pong
[20:48] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, pong
[20:49] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: do you know if we have the sources of that xubuntu release image on the xobunut.org?
[20:49] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: the Czech guys who did the new theme asked for it
[20:50] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: I forgot to ask earlier
[20:50] <Jeren> zoredache: Nothing with a destination of <IP_ADDRESS>. The only entry is Destination <IP_ADDRESS>, with a gateway of <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:51] <zoredache> Jeren: that would indicate your default gateway didn't get set up properly...
[20:51] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, Not sure what you mean but I gotta jet.
[20:51] <zoredache> as a test try running the command 'route add default gw <IP_ADDRESS>' then try pinging something again
[20:51] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, please e-mail me
[20:51] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: ok, thanks
[20:54] <Jeren> Zoredache: Thanks. My box can actually be useful now <_< That seemed to fix it.
[20:55] <zoredache> Jeren: that 'fix' is only temporary.  It will be lost if/when you reboot or change your network config
[20:55] <v0lksman> it won't stick after a reboot though...you should take a peak at your /etc/network/interfaces and be 10000% sure your gateway is correct
[20:55] <Jeren> Alright
[20:55] <Jeren> I'll go do that now.
[20:55] <Jeren> One sec.
[21:00] <Jeren> Ok, I just went in and confirmed whats in /etc/network/interfaces. It looks accurate.
[21:26] <Riotta> hey guys
[21:26] <Riotta> I need help kinda
[21:26] <Nece228> we listen :D
[21:26] <Riotta> I installed xubuntu amd64 from scrach (ive been using (x)ubuntu 32bit for sometime only updating via update manager
[21:27] <Riotta> and I notice something
[21:27] <Riotta> which troubles me
[21:27] <Riotta> I notice that actually I had nothing to do with screen/keyboard/mouse configuration
[21:27] <Riotta> all were detected more than well
[21:27] <Riotta> even my mouse has all 8 buttons working
[21:27] <Riotta> in firefox etc
[21:28] <Riotta> but...
[21:28] <Riotta> what troubles me
[21:28] <zoredache> !enter
[21:28] <Riotta> where xubuntu store that info
[21:28] <zoredache> what do you mean where does it store it?  If you didn a clean install and wiped the drive it wasn't stored at all
[21:29] <Riotta> it would be obvious that xorg.conf will be the file I need but I entered it and it was kinda not configured not many options there if you see my old xorg.conf file
[21:29] <Nece228> mouse keyboard screen info are stored in xorg.conf
[21:29] <Riotta> it should be
[21:29] <zoredache> Riotta: xorg now auto-detects a lot of things
[21:29] <Nece228> you used xubuntu 7.10 before?
[21:29] <Riotta> but it's nothing there ok there is some things
[21:30] <TheSheep> recently a lot of defaults are just autodetected each time X starts, so they don't have to be put into xorg.conf anymore
[21:30] <Riotta> I used since 6.10
[21:30] <Riotta> updatet always
[21:30] <Nece228> that because 8.04 is LTS which means that it have new drivers
[21:30] <Riotta> via update-manager so I didn't notice any change if you know what I mean (sorry for enters)
[21:31] <Riotta> xorg.conf if you will view it it's almost empty (you know I used to edit alot this file in a past and I know those settings not set too many things)
[21:32] <Riotta> and I was thinking if ubuntu changed place for such things
[21:32] <Riotta> or something
[21:32] <Riotta> cause everything is configured but actually nowhere it's written, nowhere that I know
[21:33] <Nece228> bye
[21:33] <Riotta> cya
[21:48] <Jeren> Ok...
[21:49] <Jeren> So, while trying to install Webmin, my box froze. I restarted, and now I'm missing the task panels at the top and bottom of the screens. o.o
[21:51] <Jeren> How can I get them back?
[21:52] <Volkodav> another restart
[21:52] <Volkodav> windoze way
[21:52] <Jeren> Um
[21:52] <Jeren> Yea, tried three
[21:52] <Jeren> No luck.
[21:52] <Jeren> Anything else?
[21:52] <Volkodav> heh
[21:53] <Volkodav> uninstall webmin
[21:53] <Jeren> How?
[21:53] <Jeren> I don't even know if it installed
[21:53] <Volkodav> apt-get remove wemin --purge
[21:53] <Volkodav> webmin*
[21:53] <Jeren> One sec
[21:54] <Jeren> Yea, webmin package not installed.
[21:54] <Jeren> I think the package installer froze before it did anything.
[21:54] <Volkodav> so it was never installed
[21:54] <Jeren> Right
[21:55] <Volkodav> install from cli
[21:55] <Volkodav> it is better
[21:55] <Jeren> Instead of using the .deb on the site?
[21:55] <Volkodav> yeah - see if there is one in repos
[21:56] <Jeren> I'm more of a Windows user, so forgive me if I don't follow everything <_<
[21:56] <Volkodav> it's ok
[21:56] <Jeren> I'm familiar with apt
[21:56] <Jeren> if that's what you're referring to
[21:56] <Volkodav> sudo apt-cache search webmin
[21:57] <Jeren> ok
[21:58] <Jeren> And then?
[21:58] <Volkodav> do you see the webmin in the bunch?
[21:59] <Jeren> It didn't output anything when I typed that
[21:59] <Jeren> Just returned me to the command prompt
[21:59] <Volkodav> it should
[21:59] <Volkodav> open up the terminal
[21:59] <Jeren> Terminal window is up
[21:59] <Jeren> If it wasn't, I wouldn't know how to open another one
[22:00] <Volkodav> sudo apt-get update && apt-cache search webmin
[22:00] <Jeren> ok
[22:01] <Jeren> Went through the update completely, but again returns nothing for the cache search
[22:01] <Volkodav> you need to activate more repos in apt
[22:02] <Volkodav> looks like
[22:02] <Volkodav> open up add/remove
[22:02] <Jeren> And the best way of doing that would be...? <.<
[22:02] <Jeren> Um
[22:02] <Jeren> If I still have the task bars at the top and bottom of the screen, I would...
[22:02] <Volkodav> in Show what do you have?
[22:02] <Jeren> How do I get to that otherwise?
[22:03] <Volkodav> it should be in system
[22:03] <Volkodav> system==> add/remove
[22:03] <Volkodav> I believe
[22:04] <Volkodav> add remove programms
[22:04] <Jeren> As I've said
[22:04] <Jeren> The task bars are gone.
[22:04] <Jeren> I can't get to the menus
[22:04] <Volkodav> right click on the desktop
[22:04] <Jeren> Ok
[22:05] <Volkodav> do you get the menu?
[22:06] <Jeren> I get options to create a launcher, URL link, Folder, and "From Template", as well as a link to "Desktop Settings"
[22:06] <thinkmassive> how can I change the default dimensions for xfce4-terminal?
[22:07] <Volkodav> "Desktop Settings"
[22:07] <Jeren> ok
[22:08] <Volkodav> xfdesktop4<== run that from terminal
[22:08] <Jeren> I'm at Desktop Settings now
[22:09] <Volkodav> close that and run xfdesktop4 from terminal
[22:09] <Jeren> ok
[22:09] <Jeren> Command not found
[22:10] <Volkodav> sudo xfdesktop4
[22:11] <Jeren> Command not found
[22:11] <Volkodav> sudo xfwm4
[22:11] <Jeren> "Warning: Another window manager is already running"
[22:12] <Volkodav> so you need to kill the other one
[22:12] <Jeren> how?
[22:12] <Volkodav> sudo killall -9 xfdesktop4
[22:13] <Jeren> no process killed
[22:13] <Volkodav> sudo killall -9 xfwm4
[22:14] <Jeren> Ok, I just lost all my open windows
[22:14] <Jeren> And I'm looking at a blank desktop
[22:14] <Volkodav> that's ok
[22:14] <Volkodav> do sudo xfwm4
[22:14] <Jeren> where? My terminal windows are closed.
[22:14] <Jeren> How do I open one?
[22:14] <Volkodav> right click
[22:14] <Jeren> right click isn't working anymore
[22:15] <Volkodav> reboot and come back
[22:15] <Volkodav> I'll walk you trough
[22:15] <Jeren> Ok
[22:15] <Jeren> Rebooting it now
[22:15] <Jeren> One sec
[22:15] <Jeren> Its amazing how troublesome this all is... and I just installed it :\
[22:17] <thinkmassive> what about alt-f2 ?
[22:17] <Jeren> Ok, I'm back at the login screen
[22:17] <Volkodav> good
[22:17] <Volkodav> login
[22:17] <Volkodav> thinkmassive, what seems to be troublesome?
[22:18] <thinkmassive> nothing, I was just suggesting an alternative to rebooting
[22:18] <Volkodav> which is?
[22:18] <Jeren> [thinkmassive] what about alt-f2 ?
[22:18] <thinkmassive> doesn't really matter know
[22:18] <Jeren> Ok, I logged in
[22:18] <thinkmassive> I would like to know how to set the default dimensions of xfce4-terminal though
[22:19] <Volkodav> getting out of X - are you ready for it?
[22:19] <Jeren> My Firefox session restarted, but other than that, I have nothing
[22:19] <Jeren> Right click only works in the FF window. The rest of the background is some light blue
[22:19] <Volkodav> open up terminal
[22:19] <Jeren> Again, how?
[22:20] <Volkodav> it is in accessories
[22:20] <Jeren> Again
[22:20] <Jeren> I don't have any menus/taskbars
[22:20] <Jeren> and now I don't even have the typical desktop I had since installing this two hours ago
[22:21] <Volkodav> can you right click  on the desktop?
[22:21] <Jeren> nope
[22:21] <Jeren> I have absolutely nothing.
[22:21] <TheSheep> Jeren: press alt+f2, does a window come up?
[22:22] <Jeren> An input box, a check box for "Run in Terminal", and a Run button
[22:22] <Jeren> So, yes
[22:22] <TheSheep> Jeren: type 'xfce4-panel' in there
[22:22] <Volkodav> xfdesktop
[22:22] <TheSheep> without quotes, and press enter
[22:22] <Jeren> Ok, xfce4-panel just restored my top and bottom panels
[22:22] <TheSheep> then xfdesktop, yes
[22:22] <Jeren> And xfdesktop restored the rest
[22:23] <Volkodav> xfwm4
[22:23] <TheSheep> Volkodav: that's already runnin
[22:23] <TheSheep> Volkodav: that's what displays the run dialog :)
[22:23] <Jeren> Ok
[22:23] <Jeren> Now, what do I need to do with the repos again?
[22:24] <thinkmassive> TheSheep: do you know how to change the default dimensions of xfce4-terminal?
[22:24] <TheSheep> thinkmassive: sure, edit the config file in ~/.config/terminal
[22:25] <thinkmassive> awesome, thanks!
[22:26] <thinkmassive> that option is inconveniently missing from the gui preferences
[22:26] <Volkodav> heh
[22:26] <Volkodav> gui-eywey
[22:27] <TheSheep> thinkmassive: there are much more of them missing from the gui :)
[22:27] <Volkodav> there was no gui in the first place
[22:28] <thinkmassive> I noticed
[22:28] <Jeren> Volkodav, what do I need to do regarding the repos now?
[22:28] <thinkmassive> Volkodav: actually there was, hence the name xterm
[22:28] <Volkodav> I would activate all open source
[22:28] <Jeren> Under "Software Sources"?
[22:28] <Volkodav> thinkmassive, - think twice
[22:30] <thinkmassive> I prefer to do things right the first time
[22:30] <Volkodav> drop the button
[22:30] <Volkodav> see what else is available axcept supported apps
[22:31] <Jeren> Nothing is coming in for Third party apps
[22:31] <Jeren> Oh
[22:31] <Jeren> Open Source
[22:31] <Jeren> hang on
[22:31] <Volkodav> what about All available applicattions?
[22:31] <Jeren> No Webmin
[22:32] <Jeren> I'm afraid to try the .deb package again, for fear it'll freeze and cause this all over again
[22:32] <Volkodav> did you activate all available though?
[22:32] <Jeren> Activate what?
[22:32] <Jeren> I'm in the "All Available Applications" drop down
[22:32] <Volkodav> and there is no webmin comes up ?
[22:32] <Jeren> nope
[22:33] <Volkodav> link me to the deb package
[22:33] <Jeren> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/webadmin/webmin_1.420_all.deb
[22:33] <Volkodav> from the site
[22:33] <Jeren> link is on : http://www.webmin.com/download.html
[22:34] <Jeren> Question
[22:34] <Volkodav> 12
[22:34] <Jeren> windows that are opening up no longer appear in the middle but are locked to the top left of my desktop
[22:34] <Jeren> How can I fix that?
[22:34] <Volkodav> window behaviour
[22:34] <Volkodav> in settings
[22:35] <Jeren> "These settings cannot work with your current window manager (unknown)"
[22:35] <Jeren> What the hell?
[22:35]  * Jeren is getting more and more frustrated
[22:37] <Volkodav> did you untar webm in package ?
[22:38] <Jeren> I double clicked on the .deb package. The package thing came up. I then clicked on "Install Package", and thats when it froze.
[22:38] <Volkodav> well
[22:38] <Volkodav> my friend - it is a compressed package
[22:39] <Volkodav> you need to "unzip" it first
[22:39] <Jeren> If it needed to be decompressed, I'm sure it would've said something
[22:39] <Volkodav> in windoze it might
[22:39] <Jeren> It lists the included files in the package already as is, plus gives me the option to install it.
[22:39] <Volkodav> not on the bright side
[22:39] <Jeren> But I'm not running that on windows
[22:40] <Volkodav> yeah - you opened it in some sort of archive mode file like squezze or whatever
[22:40] <Jeren> I opened the .deb file with
[22:40] <Jeren> gdebi-gtk 0.3.8
[22:41] <Volkodav> you need to right click on that file and choose extract here
[22:41] <Volkodav> or similar
[22:41] <Jeren> You'd think it'd catch if it needs to be decompressed. I've had it catch package dependencies before.
[22:41] <Jeren> There is no extract option
[22:41] <Volkodav> then cd to the new folder directory and start install from there?
[22:42] <Volkodav> Am I making myself clear?
[22:42] <Jeren> I do believe so.
[22:42] <Jeren> Though how do you tell a compressed .deb from a noncompressed one?
[22:42] <Volkodav> I have this package here on my box as we speak
[22:42] <Jeren> I've taken package files and installed them straight before
[22:43] <Volkodav> and just extracted it
[22:43] <Volkodav> time to roll to install
[22:43] <Volkodav> I can show you the folder
[22:44] <Volkodav> what's the folder's name you start the install from?
[22:44] <Jeren> I just restarted the box and tried installing from the package directly. It seems to have worked this time.
[22:45] <Volkodav> well it's all good then!
[22:45] <Jeren> Thankfully
[22:45] <Volkodav> good luck with webmin
[22:45] <Jeren> though I wish things were good three hours ago when I finished installing Xubuntu >_<
[22:45] <Jeren> I'm getting nothing done at work today :(
[22:46] <Jeren> Now I just need to find a way to set up a VNC server and get FTP working on this thing
[22:47] <zoredache> why ftp?  sftp is 'secure', and extremely easy to setup
[22:48] <Volkodav> iinstall gftp
[22:48] <Volkodav> VNC is easy too
[22:48] <zoredache> vnc is also easy to setup.  Though I suggest tunneling that through ssh
[22:49] <Volkodav> zoredache, - Ace
[22:49] <Jeren> I'm just looking for ways of remotely working on this machine
[22:49] <Jeren> FTP or SFTP works for me, as long as I can transfer files
[22:49] <zoredache> so all you really should need to do is install openssh-server and x11vnc
[22:49] <Jeren> Ok
[22:50] <Jeren> hmm...
[22:50] <Volkodav> ftp suxorz since all passwords are transmitted in open
[22:50] <Jeren> "Unable to quit session. Quitting the session requires that Xfce's session manager (xfcer-session) is running, but it was not detected. Please quit Xfce via another means."
[22:50] <zoredache> ftp also sucks because it is far more difficult to get through firewalls
[22:50] <Jeren> Picky little bugger...
[22:50] <Volkodav> ssh is the way to go
[22:50] <Volkodav> ssh2
[22:51] <Volkodav> scp
[22:51] <Volkodav> no ftp
[22:51] <thinkmassive> sftp works just as well if all you need to do is transfer files
[22:51] <Jeren> How can I shutdown without the use of the Quit button? <.<
[22:51] <Jeren> Or do I just need to power it off?
[22:52] <zoredache> Jeren: in a terminal use the command 'shutdown -h now'
[22:52] <zoredache> err.. 'sudo shutdown -h now'
[22:52] <Jeren> thanks
[22:52] <Jeren> So, SFTP is recommended over FTP
[22:52] <djouallah> hi did wubi is included with xubuntu 8.04
[22:54] <zoredache> Jeren: there still are a few good reasons to use ftp.  Anonymous file repositories for example... For transfering things to your home computer though sftp/ssh is strongly reccomended at least by me..
[22:54] <thinkmassive> yes, sftp is ftp tunneled over ssh
[22:54] <Jeren> Well, this box is not going to be public.
[22:54] <thinkmassive> if it's connected to the internet then it's public
[22:54] <Jeren> It'll be testing and deploying some network monitoring software I'm working on. I just need file transfer access to upload files to the web server
[22:54] <thinkmassive> unless you have a good firewall on your perimeter
[22:55] <Jeren> meh
[22:55] <Jeren> How do I permanently fix XFce? :\
[22:57] <TheSheep> jasave the session when logging out
[22:57] <TheSheep> Jeren: ^
[22:57] <Jeren> I did. But when the computer restarted, it came up with the light blue background and no panels again.
[22:57] <Jeren> And the windows are still locked in the corner... Need to change that, too
[22:59] <Jeren> Meh
[22:59] <Jeren> Why does it matter what window manager I'm using? How can I be using more than XFCE? STupid thing...
[23:00] <Jeren> I just want to tweak some settings...


[01:56] <Azendale> I've been using Juju with MaaS for testing purposes. I accidentally destroyed the Juju client machine I was running without having run something like "juju destroy-environment" to clean up the machines in MaaS. Is there a way to reset all the machines in maas to no being claimed?
[01:56] <Azendale> I've tried going into the webui and stopping the machine and then deleting it (and then readding it) but when I try to connect a new juju client install to it, it says "ERROR environment is already bootstrapped"
[02:05] <roaksoax> Azendale: run juju destroy-environment
[02:09] <Azendale> Hm, tried that, it gives "ERROR gomaasapi: got error back from server: 409 CONFLICT"
[02:10] <Azendale> mind you, this is not the old juju client with the old .juju folder (which I accidentally got rid of before I should have)
[02:10] <Azendale> (I'm assuming that the juju client store all it's info in the .juju folder)
[02:11] <roaksoax> Azendale: seems like juju doesnt have access to the api
[02:11] <roaksoax> check whether you are using the correct api
[02:12] <roaksoax> or rm -rf ~/.juju/environments/
[02:13] <Azendale> ok, just checked, .juju/environments.yaml has the right API key. Removed the .juju/environments/ folder
[02:14] <Azendale> hm, same 409 CONFLICT error
[02:14] <Azendale> maybe I just rebuild the maas server (this is a testing setup after all)
[02:14] <roaksoax> uhmmm
[02:14] <roaksoax> i have no odea qhat might be wrong
[02:14] <roaksoax> sorry :-(
[02:15] <roaksoax> that ahould have fixed
[02:15] <Azendale> roaksoax: That's fine. Thanks for the help anyway. I appreciate it!
[02:15] <roaksoax> cause i experienced tbat this morning
[02:18] <roaksoax> Azendale: what version of maas are you using?
[02:19] <Azendale> roaksoax: I'm running it on 13.10
[02:19] <roaksoax> uhmm
[02:20] <roaksoax> im out of ideas
[02:20] <bigjools> Azendale: I know
[02:20] <bigjools> use maas-cli to list files and delete the provider file that juju left behind
[02:21] <Azendale> bigjools: ok, I'll give it a try
[02:22] <bigjools> let me know if that was the case
[02:22] <Azendale> bigjools: Ok, I will
[02:26] <bigjools> Azendale: what is the status of all your nodes?
[02:29] <Azendale> When I started having the problem with juju saying that the environment was already bootstrapped, I had 11 ready, and one allocated (by the old juju setup). I stopped that one (since I couldn't run juju destroy to get rid of it) and still had trouble
[02:29] <Azendale> so I deleted all the nodes and let them run through the discovery and then commissioning again
[02:29] <Azendale> bigjools: I see a 'provider-state' and 'bootstrap-verify' when I list the files. It lists them with relative URLs. I don't see any command to delete in the Maas API, do I just need to go to the right folder and rm them?
[02:30] <Azendale> bigjools: (I also see various tools files for various architectures and versions of ubunu)
[02:30] <bigjools> Azendale: maas-cli <profile> files delete filename=<name> IIRC
[02:31] <bigjools> tools are ok
[02:31] <bigjools> delete the other two
[02:31] <bigjools> Azendale: so were the nodes still commissioning when you did destroy-env?
[02:34] <Azendale> bigjools: I'm not quite sure how to answer. I only did destroy-env with a new juju config, not on the old one
[02:35] <bigjools> Azendale: ah - then that is definitely a known bug.  There's a fix waiting to get pushed out.
[02:35] <Azendale> bigjools: I think that is part of my problem, that I didn't "clean up" on the old config first
[02:35] <bigjools> you need t odelete those files
[02:35] <bigjools> well your original problem was deleting a node that was allocated
[02:36] <Azendale> bigjools: I tried the command syntax you suggested, but it still seems like the maas-cli command doesn't have it (gives an error, and only lists 'add', 'list', 'get-by-key', 'get')
[02:38] <bigjools> Azendale: my bad, it's
[02:38] <bigjools>  maas-cli <profile> file <filename> delete
[02:38] <bigjools> do help on file and it should say
[02:40] <Azendale> bigjools: ah, I see what I was missing. I was looking at the help for fileS
[02:40] <bigjools> yeah :)
[02:40] <bigjools> the cli is based around the api structure so it looks a bit odd sometimes
[02:42] <Azendale> bigjools: Ok, it looks like it worked to remove the files. I'll give juju a try now. Thanks! I feel like a learned a bit about under the hood so it's less of a black box for me
[02:42] <bigjools> cool
[02:47] <Azendale> bigjools: It appears to have worked. The bootstrap command returned sucessfully, and a machine has been allocated. Thanks again.
[02:47] <bigjools> np
[02:47] <bigjools> you at least found a new bug for us :)
[02:47] <Azendale> bigjools:  I've been working on this stuff for a few weeks (trying to get openstack going in a test environment), and have realized I need to learn to debug/troubleshoot instead of just starting over when I break something (which I seem to have a knack for doing)
[02:48] <bigjools> some things are a little fragile unfortunately but we're working on making debugging easier
[02:52] <Azendale> bigjools: I learned about juju debug hooks yesterday, and I have say that system is pretty nice combined with --retry. I had to ask to figure out that you had to run hooks/<name_of_hook> to get the hook to run in the terminal, but once I knew that that part was really nice actually
[04:04] <AskUbuntu> Reset MAAS after loosing Juju configuration? | http://askubuntu.com/q/364821


[10:44] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[15:19] <Chipaca> computer is freezing up every time the screen blanks :-(


 Whereas I have a working copy of Lineage OS 14.1 currently running on my Grouper (Asus 7-2012), can I add the git repo for that build as a local_manifest within .repo? If so, that will obviously allow me to build the Android ROM for my device, but then what?  … My question all along has been: … How do I get Ubuntu Touch from that? I've looked at several wikis (all of which are incomplete) and none of them explain how to get from a to z. They
[00:20] <tgBot> around or totally get something wrong.  … I'm new to this, so the confusion factor is pretty high for me.
 P.S. I wanted to say that I've totally appreciated all the help many of you have rendered. Just get me past this hurdle, and you'll make my week! From there, I can start building apps for UTouch (which I'd previously done and it was much easier) and test them on my running device.
 P.P.S. my apps weren't anything special but they worked.
[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #314: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/314/
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #977: SUCCESS in 1 min 48 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/977/
 @jsalatas, I know that it's related to security reasons but... Is it a good thing to make easier port devices? … Anyway John, if I'm correct, some days ago you said that there will be some news about yunit soon... what news?
 @j2g2rp, It's unlikely that the kernel itself will make it easier, but Teble certainly should.
 👍
 @UniversalSuperBox, The question is how this (the new kernel) would affect UT and/or Halium.  … Apparently I have no idea (yet) how UT/Halium works ;)
 @j2g2rp, I'm close to release yunit backports to 16.04 (LTS) with Qt 5.9.1 (also LTS). Hopefully during the weekend.
 After that I guess I guess its
 👍
 Cool!
 @jsalatas, wow, that are really good news! it's a great job 😁
 Someone here to help me a bit?
 Halium says to Create a new file called <VENDOR>_<CODENAME>.xml and open it in your favorite editor.
 so what should be it? asus_Z00L.xml or lineage_Z00L.xml?
[02:54] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Asus is the vendor
 @Vijay Kumar, Thank you
 Fwd from aayushgupta219: aayushgupta219@aosp-caf:~/halium$ lunch lineage_Z00L-userdebug … build/core/product_config.mk:249: * Can not locate config makefile for product "lineage_Z00L".  Stop. … Device Z00L not found. Attempting to retrieve device repository from LineageOS Github (http://github.com/LineageOS). … Found repository: android_device_asus_Z00L … Traceback (most recent call last): …   File "vendor/cm/build/tools/roomservice.p
[03:16] <tgBot> 263, in <module> …     default_revision = get_default_revision() …   File "vendor/cm/build/tools/roomservice.py", line 117, in get_default_revision …     return r.replace('refs/heads/', '').replace('refs/tags/', '') … AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'replace' … build/core/product_config.mk:249: * Can not locate config makefile for product "lineage_Z00L".  Stop. … build/core/product_config.mk:249: *** Can not locate config makefile
[03:16] <tgBot> "lineage_Z00L".  Stop.
[03:35] <tgBot> Kieran was added by: Kieran
[03:47] <tgBot> TitanX97 was added by: TitanX97
 this is 7 hundred! 😁
 Yayyy!
 :)
 Where is the source code for UBPorts?
 @TitanX97, Welcome 😁
 Want to compile it
 @Kieran, Welcome 😁
 @TitanX97, Afaik github
 @thepeter, Link to it please
 @thepeter, cheers
 But I don't have direct link rightaway, I am on the phone now
 @TitanX97, Most things seem to be here: https://github.com/ubports
 @Kieran, No Manifest file? 😭
 (Sticker, 360x512) https://irc.ubports.com/CLmu0Bvp/file_422.webp
 There is a Wiki! :)
 @TitanX97, Yep 😂
 @thepeter, Why there is no link to source tree lol?
 I love Ubuntu Touch
 We're not perfect (yet) but it's happening, U know
 Got it
 https://github.com/ubports/android
 I can help if you want :)
[04:05] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Yes we want help.
[04:07] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> But currently it seems there are no developers awake.
[04:08] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> https://ubports.com/
[04:10] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> There are ways for you to help on this page. You can Choose what you want to do.
 @TitanX97, A lot of effort is now put into halium I've heard that will be a great milestone
 I get 700 :) and good morning
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #120: SUCCESS in 1.2 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/120/
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #978: SUCCESS in 0.43 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/978/
 @Milan Korecky, Don't worry we are all at 1st possition here, since we are together boldly going where no man has gone before 🙂
 We already have CM-14.1
 We need to backport everything to Lollipop now
 Will do that tonight
 @TitanX97, 👍👍👍👍
 @wayneoutthere, Oh I almost forgot ... You have ain't seen nothing yet! 😂😂😂
[06:33] <tgBot> * DanChapman quietly drops this here https://open.uappexplorer.com/app/dekko2.dekkoproject
 @DanChapman, cooool :D
 WOAAAAAH looks pretty cool
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/FeBfXjZB/file_423.webp
 Just note it still has lots of bugs and you may find the multiwindow stuff to be a bit weird on phones
 Also it shouldn't interfere with any current installations of dekko from the canonical store
 I am thinking ... is it possible to get all the created apps texts into weblate? (suspecting they are not, U know) It would easy translating a lot 😜
 @TitanX97, Tonight? Good luck with this, in order to make a usable ports normally you need weeks ;)
 @DanChapman, What i'm interested in finding out about the most right now is if anyone has issues launching and what weird navigational issues they come across.
 Also some screenshots of Dekko in desktop mode on an m10 would be cool to see, if anyone has one 😊
 it take too many time to wakeup keyboard? (E4.5) . I had to lock-unlock phone to make the keyboard wakeup. If im correct, there was a similar problem with oxide when you open private mode. wasn't it?
 *700*!!!! I am IMPRESSED!!!
 @j2g2rp, Yeah i've noticed that. Refocusing the window is enough to wake it up for me.
 hum, i recieved a mail from google. They rejected the login
 https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en option 2
 we have to talk with them to whitelist dekko 😝
 @DanChapman, Good news, thanks a lot. I will try it...
 @j2g2rp, Will be fixed once i get using online accounts working again. They just want the oauth token instead of username/password.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/PsV0jjj0/file_424.mp4
 😆
 strange "Telegram Desktop was updated to version 1.1.23" but in changelog there is v 1.1.20 03.09.17 as newest
 @thepeter, Changelog is usually late by a few days
 Or it appears never
 They made a few updates these days, probably only bugfixes ^^
 okay, well  it looks like that
 @DanChapman, So we should uninstall old Dekko first an than install Dekko 2? Do we have also delete cache etc like purge or does normal uninstall is OK?
 @j2g2rp, +1 on Nexus 5
 @bastos777, they are different, you can have both
 @bastos777, You can have both installed side by side. I didn't want to force users to lose the old Dekko while the new one doesn't have equal features
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/m7jeRoL2/file_425.webp
 +1
[08:23] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #332: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/332/
[08:24] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #979: SUCCESS in 1 min 13 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/979/
 @DanChapman, Adding a mail I can't paste the passwd and e-mail so I should put it manually.
 @Cesar_Herrera, Not sure why that is as I just use the standard TextField from the uitk so it should work the same as other apps.
 @DanChapman, Perhaps I try later and it goes. With other apps was the same.
 @DanChapman, I reset the phone and it goes. Thanks.
 @andreasimonetti, its works thanks
 @DanChapman I can't configure the server IMAP/SMTP: I click on next, it takes a while but it doesn't say if there are errors... probably I'm doing something wrong, but idk where...
 @mymike00, Me the same with outlook
 yep, me too
 both outlook?
 mine is the school mail so it isn't `@outlook` but the webmail is on the microsoft site...
 ah office365 i presume then
 probably
 meh... outlook/office365/exchange is janky at best over imap. Let me test my outlook account again. I might need you to get me some logs...
 yep, no problem
 @mymike00 did you select the "Outlook" account during setup or just "IMAP"?
 outlook
 @Cesar_Herrera ^^ same question for you
 @mymike00 try using the IMAP account option.
 I will. thanks
 Outlook seems to kick Dekko out when it tries to authenticate the smtp credentials http://paste.ubuntu.com/25488825/
 Plus check the self-signed certificates mybe ;)
 Not for outlook.com 😊
 @mymike00 if that doesn't work then enable the file logger in `~/.config/dekko/dekkod.conf` to … ```[FileLog] … Enabled=1 … Path=/tmp/dekkod-log``` … Then restart Dekko and try and create the account again and send me /tmp/dekkod-log or add it to this issue https://gitlab.com/dekkoproject/dekko/issues/30
 @DanChapman, Yes. Outlook
 @Cesar_Herrera Could you try using the "IMAP" account option instead please
 I'll try
 thanks 😊
 @DanChapman, It finally goes, but after I put the servers it appeared a black screen checking than did not finist. I closed that and when I started Deko it appeared the emails.
 @Cesar_Herrera ok so your hitting the same issue i did now https://gitlab.com/dekkoproject/dekko/issues/30 where it fails to authenticate smtp but imap was fine. So you will receive emails but won't be able to send for now.
 @DanChapman, I can't send messages. When I see a received message it appears: "Contenido remoto bloqueado" and a green button to allow.
 Yes the default right now is to block all remote content. Stops tracking links and all that other crazy stuff folks put into emails.
 OK. Thanks
 https://www.emailprivacytester.com/ is a good way to test Dekko's privacy features when opening a message.
 @DanChapman Just giving Dekko 2 a try. Looks excellent. Thanks very much. Really keen to see how it develops.
 @BrisPete, 👍 It's still very desktop focused. But over the next few weeks it should become more usable on phablets
[10:36] <tgBot> julian2000nl was added by: julian2000nl
 Hi everyone!
 Hi @julian2000nl, welcome!
 @DanChapman, 👍
 @j2g2rp, just pulling down the top menu a but and going back to the app works for me. same issue as with the browser in private mode
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/TbtwR8dW/file_427.jpg
 @YougoChats, I wonder where this bug lies.
 @popeydc, sweet!
 @popeydc, Aw, they should have brought someone in looking like a mad scientist to say "IT'S ALIVE!"
 @j2g2rp, worked fine for me. perhaps because i have used dekko/online accounts before and already gave permission before
 Thanks @DanChapman :)
 @popeydc, Are they UBports shirts?
 Yes
 Jan is a giant!
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/SaUGh9f5/file_429.jpg
 More in the audience
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/CAJYvJpB/file_431.jpg
 @DanChapman, Hahahaha, talk to him about 55' TV's
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Bbz4sLVg/file_432.mp4
 @popeydc, Very exciting times
 @popeydc, great!!!
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/bYTDxdMU/file_434.jpg
 nice :)
 next year fosdem :)
 Oh already posted :)
 @arudy, The more the better ;)
 @DanChapman Dekko 2 configuration on FP2 15.04/rc is crashing after filling in account information. I tried 3 times over quite unstable H internet connection and than over wifi. Same result😒
 @bastos777, no problem on FP2 15.04 devel. something got fixed in devel?
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/bz14AW6R/file_436.jpg
 Nice demo!
[11:25] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @popeydc, How tall is Jan and who is with him is that mariogrip?
[11:26] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @popeydc, Is there any live feed of that?
 the slides are online?
[11:30] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @Krakakanok, Any links please?
[11:31] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @popeydc, Sorry but who are these guys?
[11:38] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Shouldn't ubucon make live presentations online .. it's information age ? What am I thinking wrong. People around world could see ( specially the people who are not able to go personally😔) it if they would make it online streamable...
 @Vijay Kumar, +1
 @bastos777, No idea what could be causing that. Please could you file an issue along with the app log file. https://gitlab.com/dekkoproject/ubuntu-ui-plugin/issues
 @Vijay Kumar, Maybe its a little bit too small to have this professional equipment. Its a lot of infra & resources that need to work towards that. You dont find always amateurs who can do this, and professionals will charge a lot
 @Vijay Kumar, +1
[11:52] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @Flohack, If not that much then just a feed of audio and/or along with the PPT could do. Then There is Facebook live. Though I don't know how good it might sound or work.
[12:14] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Hey @Flohack does ubport have an fb page? If not I think we should create one. Shouldn't  we?
 Oh sorry
[12:29] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> You were getting out of some kind of train .. 😁
[12:31] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Initially I thought my prayers has been answering ... And someone is posting the video from ubucon 😄
 @Vijay Kumar, Me amongst others ;-)
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/IWFQ4cuY/file_440.jpg
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/SbVp95AJ/file_441.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/7E0d6Wip/file_443.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/ak5gWeXj/file_445.jpg
[12:38] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Hey Frank ... Thank you 😁 thanks a lot
 @Flohack, We already have stable lineageOS 14.1 and I am part of the development group
 So it wouldnt be a problem
 @Fuchur777, When will UBPorts release stable version of source code?
 @TitanX97, Ota 2 you are hinting at?
 @Fuchur777, Others have said to me that UBPorts is unstable right now
 And it is based on CM 12.1
 Will the updated source code will be based on LOS 14.0 and LOS 14.1?
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #107: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/107/
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #980: SUCCESS in 51 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/980/
 @Vijay Kumar, And me as well!
 How serious are we to launch it???
 launch what?
 @TitanX97, It's not an Android ROM, per se. We run Android in a container and it handles driver support through libhybris.
 So we're segregated from a majority of Android bugs and security faults
 wait
 HOLY MOLY WE HIT 700!
 @wayneoutthere get over here and celebrate
 we had 701. someone left
 Did someone call me?
 ... oh wait.. they did.
 wait for it...
 .... wait for it...
 Launch a device
 Seven Hundred - By Wayne (Out There) … Seven Hundred, O' Seven Hundred, … How we have longed for thee, … As parched land with jagged thirst cracks, … As a man at war longing for peace. … Yea, Seven Hundred,  … Mayest thou be unto us,  … As we grow as a sunflower reaching towards the sun, … The seedling on the journey to Eight
 @hawk_is_here, No, we're not trying to launch a device right now.
 So what is the plan
 @hawk_is_here, write poetry
 If we still tread like Ubuntu did
 Then it's not really a push
 We must have a strategy
 about devices... what do you think about the new xiaomi mi a1, android one? What IF Xiaomi released kernel sources? :)
 If the question is "What if they release the source?" the answer is "they won't be friendly to developers, so no"
 Well I think if we can make the OS flash ready to any particular device
 Every device needs specific porting of Halium, much like an Android ROM
 But it's not exactly an Android ROM
 Which we can convince them to make post order basis
 Flash sale was a good show
 But for preparation of preloaded devices
 I think will not last for long
 But if we start preordering device
 Like book now
 We really don't want to spend time or money on launching a device.
 And then when we have 500 orders
 If you need an exhibit, look at any Kickstarter for hardware ever
 Never on time, never ship what they promised.
 Then the manufacturer has to just flash the device and parcel
 Yes
 @UniversalSuperBox, That's my point
 @UniversalSuperBox, I think you mean kickfarter...
 Maybe we'll find a hardware partner who wants to ship a phone with Ubuntu Touch again. But for now it's staying flash-only.
 Yes
 I'm not ruling your idea out, it's just not a goal for the very near future.
 For now
 We don't have a good reputation after the Ubuntu phone debacle
 So we cannot bargain over the additional feature other than the existing HW
 I don't think there was a debacle
 @UniversalSuperBox, I think you're in the right track. Let it gain more popularity. Let the app development mature, etc. Kind of like cm did...and then maybe.
 Once we can have an appreciable lead
 And I don't think we have a lot of bad reputation to shake off. The people who want to make a better phone platform are here.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Sir, … There are two ways of going forward...
 Ubuntu fans, more than half of them don't understand flashing
 The people who were full of vitrol against it are happy that Canonical dropped it. But they aren't happy about where Ubuntu is going now. So there's no winning, as expected.
 Leave the preparation procedure
 I think we should focus on the users now
 For the moment, I don't see the problem you're trying to solve.
 Ubuntu Touch isn't ready for "everyone" yet. So we don't have phones that "everyone" can buy with it preinstalled.
 What shall I say then sir
 My proposal would be to start thinking about the users who are not computer educated
 The usability of the phone...
 The convergence
 I see. What have you seen in our actions so far that you'd like us to change?
 My proposal would be focusing on the devices
 Where we can create the environment with one click flashing of the devices
 Like we prepare the Ubuntu flash drive to install on the system
 With an easy tool
 I work in telecom industry
 My company is huge
 We had Ubuntu OS as official OS for organization
 Almost 10K users
 But the OS was dropped because we don't had an proper Usability
 Try to understand my point
 Giving everything is really a good thought
 Untill the direction is right
 And the direction must be towards the Goal
 And I believe the Goal was always covering the mass
 I think we should ask people for which device they are targeting
 Highest no. Of vote shall be our target for one click flash
 Till time to find an HW manufacturer
 You make it sound so easy 😐
 We have the UBports Installer which works on Windows (with drivers installed), MacOS, or Linux.
 So that's your easy flash environment
 @hawk_is_here, It's pretty obvious, but we're just not ready for it. Not there yet. We're working on Halium 16.04 build.
 @vanyasem, Ok
 Halium is the closest we'll ever have to "All devices" and it still requires the Android source code and willing developers.
 We aren't actively targeting to get rid of Ubuntu Touch's usability.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yep, but again, it's on a roadmap and not ready at the moment
 Exactly. Things just haven't come together yet.
 We're working hard to get them there. Some of us are actually working too hard. :P
 Why do I get notifications of my own messages from Matrix? 😂
 We've got many from the team in Paris right now, meeting all kinds of developers and users.
 There's a TV with a Nexus 5 hooked up for convergence too.
 Can I add matrix bot here to route messages directly to my own matrix room? (And not to IRC, as I find it uncomfortable to use)
 So, I'm not saying that your points are incorrect @hawk_is_here. Just that I don't know what you want us to change to get better.
 @vanyasem, I'm talking about @tchncs_bot. We use it in our company (and it's used in Halium chat)
 @UniversalSuperBox, They are on the roadmap :) We just can't make them appear instantly by request
 But it creates a subpar experience for IRC users. :/
 I will route it my own private room. We can have both at the same time
 I just really hate using telegram for non-personal messaging and IRC is uncomfortable for me
 @hawk_is_here, To be clear: Nothing would be nicer than to just press on a button and generate an image which fits all Android devices. But not even CM or Lineageo can do that
 Simply bc there is no standardization. Ubuntu on a mobile phone is quite different form a PC
 It just has the same name lets say
 and it uses the arm compiled root filesystem where possible
 @UniversalSuperBox, We miss you here though...
 But then comes 5000 things that are customized
 And we can see for our list of 5 devices that for example on one the camera works, on the other it doesnt. We need to dig into each small problem, sometimes it takes weeks
 This group had became a lot active since last day.
 (Photo, 1080x819) https://irc.ubports.com/QR0w0qWt/file_447.jpg
 So until there is a standard for HAL its futile
 @Flohack, I'm talking about this sir
 @UniversalSuperBox, I gave you a shoutout in Russia on a conference about education and modern technology
 @vanyasem, There were lots of devs and users as well
 @hawk_is_here, You are talking about PC software. This aint gonna work in mobile world
 @aayushgupta219, It's Friday. Nobody works hard on Fridays
 @vanyasem, People in India do work.
 @vanyasem, Me still in the office
 @Flohack, Well Sir, … We should start thinking to work on this, I guess
 @hawk_is_here, Then be my guest. Please go to Samsung and tell them to open-source their drivers for example. Good luck with that
 The vendors have absolutely no interest in getting their devices unlocked
 This is the point, its a lock-in ecosystem where our hardware comes from
 So we can only scratch the surface and hope it works
 @aayushgupta219, Well, formally everybody does. But it fact most people are less concentrated and motivated to work
 @vanyasem, @UniversalSuperBox?
 And we have to add a lot of special treatment code for various chipsets. In the end, Halium and libhybris are working around driver issues from the vendors.  Good, isn´t it? But unfortunately, does *not* work for *every* phone on the planet
 No, but it works for all our supported devices.
 And that sounds like what is needed.
 I got the message, why we do not work for a simple installer that can flash everything ;)
 Yes
 It sounds like what we need
 @hawk_is_here, We have a very good reputation, since we take all our free time we have to save the project.
 Well sir it the motivation...
 @TitanX97, Who tells you this? UBports Ubuntu Touch is very stable in 15.04
 Let me see, what I can do to contribute...
 @vanyasem, Maybe route it to the Matrix Ubports group...^^
 @hawk_is_here, Whats your expertise?
 @hawk_is_here, This comes when all other problems are solved. Like get 16.04 working on all supported devices.
 @Flohack, Nothing comparable to you
 Let me figure out the device I have
 @hawk_is_here, Hey you dont even know my expertise ;)
 @aayushgupta219, and one guy in canada
 Btw how to flash a daily build?
 Or the only way would be to install stable and then switch channel to devel?
 @Flohack, I know mine Sir, not in development for very long time
 @vanyasem, Confused what is now installed?
 But the new that Ubuntu is dropping was a shocker
 @Flohack, I have 16.04 installed
 @aayushgupta219, oh wait, sorry he was Indian.
 Now trying to free my time and come back
 I wonder is there a way to flash devel  without flashing stable
 Hahaha
 Some free to inform me what does halium do with ubuntu touch?
 @vanyasem, you want to flash devel of what? 15.04?
 Yep
 sudo ubuntu-device-flash —server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch —device=xxyyzz \ … —channel=15.04/devel —bootstrap (probably needs to be wiped)
 smth like this 😆
 Is there a documentation on this somewhere?
 The installer will also let you do that
 Gimme my CLI!
 @vanyasem, Not a good one, but go to https://devices.ubports.com/ find your device, and scroll down to Install using sstem-image-server
 @Flohack, Ty, I'll take a took at this as I get home
 @wayneoutthere, Not funny
 @vanyasem, Not actually... We do work hard Mon-Fri. Generally Saturday & Sunday's are off...
 Titan, are you alright?
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yup... One of UBports dev. is an Indian
 :)
 hi
 @Sconio, hi
 Meizu pro 5 will be compatible with ubuntu 16.04
 ,,
 in futur
 I read yesterday
 confirm ?
 @Sconio, where did you read it ? =)
 wait .. 5min i find
 On the fence next to my building
 @vanyasem, It also stated хуй
 (jk)
 @Flohack, https://youtu.be/MGvo5sGEHmU?t=38m21s
 ^^
 https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/september-2-2017-ubports-community-update-69 gives 404: Page not found!
 @Flohack, I wonder why people think that uBports does not port to more phones because we don't want to do it, or because we are lazy, or because we love the few devices that are ported and don't want more
 @wagafo, I think a lot of it is just difficulty understanding the difference in complexity between Android/ARM/Mobile stuff over x86 stuff.
 @Schyken, Then we should document it better
 Or just write gibberish so it sounds smart
 😆
 Well, you get used to the ability to just kinda write an ISO to a USB and pop it in just about any PC, it's a bit difficult sometimes to understand why you can't do it with your phone.
 That's my thinking about it
 @Schyken, Anybody that used GNU+Linux with laptops for more than 6 years gets that
 @vanyasem, It's written everywhere, IMHO
 We should place a link on a supported devices page
 @vanyasem, Yeah, I can definitely see that.
 @vanyasem, People don't tend to do any research before complaining
 @vanyasem, It's also quite possible a fair bit haven't even been past the top of the landing page before doing so as well.
 Hmm, there's no browser/URL feature that can assign a link to a certain position of the page, is there?
 Like, ubuntu.com@xyz on the page?
 I doubt there's any feature like that, but it'd be damn cool IMHO
 You can achieve it with JS, I believe
 @vanyasem, Ah, I can see that
 My portfolio works that way
 It'd have to be supported in-site then
 https://domian.TLD/#something
 @Schyken, Yep
 @vanyasem, Lucky you! You get notifications at all with matrix on Ubuntu Touch? uMatriks?
 My Nexus 5 has a dead battery
 So I can't use it
 I use Nexus 5x with LineageOS
 And I have Riot from F-Droid as a Matrix client
 Sorry to disappoint you
 @vanyasem, Replaced it some days ago. Works good again. The battery is very cheap.
 I know, but I live in Moscow and it's hard to so anything here
 We don't have Amazon or Ebay, so I can't order it
 And the service center is 2 hours away
 I replaced it once in the past
 I will probably do so when I'll get more spare time
 Oh, too bad. But in case there will be some possibility, son't wait too long removing the dead battery. It gets very fat so you can't remove it anymore.
 @nfsprodriver, I got an old battery that could work still and could send it to you ;)
 @nfsprodriver, It's not completely dead, holds around 10-15 mins of charge
 Oh, that's better than my old one. The phone even died during charging.
 @koni_raid, thanks we'll look into it... at north american and european speed...
 @wayneoutthere, Wud?
 @vanyasem, well we don't work hard on Fridays it has been established...
 You found that offencive?
 @vanyasem, you clearly don't know me
 if you think i found that offensive
 go listen to some audio casts
 Oh, so you just agree with me then
 likely yes
 if it was funny i agree with you
 @Schyken, I can port Ubports myself... but the problem is it is based off CM-12.1
 Just the hardware compatibility
 and we have CM-14.1
 Mmh. You can do a Halium port
 @UniversalSuperBox, What exactly is Halium?
 I have one question...
 if we are facing problem to get the linux kernal
 how did we ported so many phones?
 @TitanX97, https://github.com/Halium/docs/blob/master/index.md
 @hawk_is_here, So many? We got 3 well working ports, and not even there everything is green. See our evergrowing bugtracker. Some of the hardware still does not work, see cameras, movie codecs, sound issues etc. Please do not give the people the impression that everything is easy and just a matter of work force. Most problems end in try-and-error scenarios, and take long time. There is no documentation out there, otherwise we would have followed it of
[16:46] <tgBot> course.
 OMG Bluetooth work for device Moto G 2014 after many patch and test, thanks god
 WHAT!?!?
 I think I'll need those patches if you can send them. :)
 @Walid, See @hawk_is_here what I mean? Walid is spending MONTHS on one device.
 @UniversalSuperBox, from here … https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/wily/+ref/flo
 and also backport kernel
 @Flohack, I was wondering in Ubuntu phone devices, they were showing a list of devices...
 Now I'm getting your point
 @neothethird how many stickers do you have on your laptop?
 @hawk_is_here, See https://devices.ubports.com/#/
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/tnbDqd7d/file_451.jpg Bluetooth Work
 @Walid, Seems we got a new port ;)
 (Sticker, 464x512) https://irc.ubports.com/VJbjBUfM/file_452.webp
 Whats missing?
 @Walid, that looks great!
 video records
 Ok they dont work on N5 either, so lets ship it ;)
 @Flohack, What would be the procedure to make the device as official port?
 We are thinking like this: First Walid will receive the invitation to bring his port to the experimental channel (I did this already). We are currently preparing this channel so that we can accept ports from the community. Then, we let hopefully some keen users test it. then we can see to move it to the production channels
 @Walid, nice work!  is this to celebrate 700?
 @wayneoutthere, Good idea every 100 users we release a new port 😆
 @wayneoutthere, No its Moto G 2014
 @Walid, What dpi ratio you have, you got 5 icons in a row!
 @Flohack, They do with a little workaraound 😜 (devel)
 @Flohack, finally! a roadmap!
 @Flohack, GRID_UNIT_PX=12 … QTWEBKIT_DPR=2.5
 @Walid, Wow 12 is smmmmmall
 how does it look like, isnt that to smmmall
 no like android
 @Walid, Looks really nice!! Good work buddy!
 @Vijay, thx
 @wayneoutthere, 😂
 (Sticker, 424x512) https://irc.ubports.com/2mYasYST/file_453.webp
 @Flohack, +1
 @Walid, Whats the native res of the Moto? 1280p?
 sr 1080p?
 5.0 in (130 mm) 1280x720 px (294 ppi) HD … Gorilla Glass 3
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(2nd_generation)
[17:48] <nerdboy> arr
[17:48] <nerdboy> can you guys perhaps steal more Gentpp patches?
[17:49] <nerdboy> seems like every other sync breaks the build...
 Mmmm could you explain
[17:52] <nerdboy> this time it's (old) e2fsprogs missing sysmacros and _GNU_SOURCE
 What are you trying to build?
[17:53] <nerdboy> if you just look, you might find some useful patches...
[17:54] <bedah> hi
[17:54]  * nerdboy slightly irritated at fixing extraneous broken stuff that should already be fixed
 Could you please actually explain the problem
 The problem might be that he is in the wrong channel
[17:56] <bedah> i got a nexus 7 2012, and i want linux on it. first question: am i right, here?
 @bedah, Yes you are right
[17:56]  * nerdboy building ubports/fp2 if anyone cares
[17:57]  * nerdboy also needs a minimum working distance between spouse and work area
 Well, our build server goes through the fp2 build every day without issues. Are you trying to build the Android compatibility layer or something else?
[17:58] <nerdboy> also last time i fixed similar and made pull request the PR was ignored/not checked before different patch made it redundant
 http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/
[17:59] <nerdboy> another few hours wasted...
 I'm going to be honest, you're wasting our time by not actually explaining the problem
 @nerdboy, You want to be productive and help us improve or you want to tell us that we dont do a good job?
[18:00] <nerdboy> that's what i was trying to do and got ignored
[18:00] <nerdboy> right now i'm testing another patch
[18:00] <bedah> hm. https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices nice and straigtforward :)
[18:00] <nerdboy> i can try another PR
[18:01] <nerdboy> and i thought i did just say what was broken
 What PR was that, do you have a link?
[18:01] <nerdboy> this time it's (old) e2fsprogs missing sysmacros and _GNU_SOURCE
 There are no requests on the FP2 repositories, open or closed.
 Well, the kernel has two but both of those developers are spoken for
[18:02] <nerdboy> so it fails linking with undefined references to itself
 @nerdboy, Please post link
[18:02] <nerdboy> am i not trying to be helpful?
 Yes, do you have a link to the pull request?
 I don't see anything in Gerrit either
[18:08] <nerdboy> oh, and one of the mkimage scripts is missing path to ./out/blah/make_ext4fs
[18:08] <nerdboy> i don't know the "right" place to fix that so i don't have patch yet
 @nerdboy, Yes but here in Telegram this information is not persistent. Please make some tickets for that. https://github.com/ubports/ubports-touch/issues
 The fairphone developers are not here right now so no one can comment
[18:10] <nerdboy> i'm kinda debugging kernel stuff for those guys already
[18:11] <nerdboy> which i'm behind on due to repeated other breakage
[18:12] <nerdboy> are you saying my pull request will always be ignored without an issue tied to it?
 @nerdboy, Sorry but I can only help you if you are willing to write issues on GH
 No. But neither did supply a link to your PR, how can I find out what´s with that
 PR or issues pls
[18:13] <nerdboy> that was a few months back before i got stalled waiting for a phone with uart wires
 So what can I do now?
 We can't look into what's going on without a log.
[18:16] <nerdboy> https://github.com/ubports/android_build/pull/2
[18:17] <nerdboy> apparently i closed it because overnight it got conflicted
[18:18] <nerdboy> right now, making an issue and then waiting is not an option for me
[18:19] <nerdboy> *maybe it never is
 @nerdboy, Well I am sorry but you opened it and closed it one day later. There is a small chance that probably someone else found the same mistake and fixed it and your PR was outdated. That does not mean we ignore you willingly
[18:19] <nerdboy> maybe make a comment then?
[18:19] <nerdboy> *in the PR
 We are all working on this project in our free time and there is not always someone waiting for PRs to process them
 Maybe the guy never saw the PR but instead just pushed changes
 There is no global alarm list for PRs, only if you subscribe to the project
[18:20]  * nerdboy has been developing Gentoo since 2003 "in free time"
[18:20] <nerdboy> i kinda know about that one
 I am not on this project for example
 Yes excuse our bad communication but I suggest you get a Telegram account, make a PR and then ping us here
[18:21] <nerdboy> so if i need to fix it and move on (to kernel debugging) what is the preferred process?
 Communication via Github was in early stages in June
[18:21] <nerdboy> wtf is telegram?
 lol
 http://telegram.org/
 this one
[18:22] <nerdboy> is there a ubports wiki page i missed?
 Wiki page for what?
[18:22] <nerdboy> 'cause i didn't see anything on that
[18:22] <nerdboy> telegram/bug report process whatever
 @nerdboy, There is no official process, I tell you what will work for you
[18:23] <nerdboy> if you (royal you) really want help then you need to make a bit more obvious/documented for old farts like me
 @nerdboy, Yes sigh. documentation is everything. Yet nobody wants to do it. Its like with all developers. We are still booting up this community. Currently lot of people work in parallel but it lacks synchronization
[18:25] <nerdboy> i'm not saying go write a gentoo dev manual, just a page with a few hints maybe
 I will get you in contact with some ppl of the FP2 team then you know whom to ping
[18:27] <nerdboy> i usually write that stuff but i don't know what to write for you guys, so...
[18:29] <nerdboy> i'm assuming telegram.org is not just a ubports thing, is there a group name or secret handshake i need to know?
[18:29] <nerdboy> (the password is swordfish)
 https://t.me/ubports
 thats it
 or drop me a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS> @Flohack, What mail sever do you run btw?
 @vanyasem, No idea ;) Im in Infra-Team 😆
 Anybody? 😂
 I use Yandex for domians and it's not self-hosted, so I don't trust it
 I use dovecot for my personal email
 @vanyasem, I dont trust my neighbour ;)
 I trust only myself. Most of my personal data is next to my couch
 The noise disturbs me from sleeping, but it's worth it
 lol
 It's Mail in a Box
 https://mailinabox.email/
 @UniversalSuperBox, Ty
 @UniversalSuperBox, That's the best kind of mail
 Far better then being scattered on the floor
 @PhoenixLandPirate, 😀
 @UniversalSuperBox, is this real?  i'm  a suckker for tech jokes, but if this is real this is highly cool...
 @wayneoutthere, Yeah, it's real
 @UniversalSuperBox, 👍👍👍
 dang... now i'm going to get lost on another cool thing.
[18:59]  * nerdboy uses postfix/courier-imap
[18:59] <nerdboy> on separate hosts, just because...
[19:00] <nerdboy> so technically also courier-esmptpd under imap
 nothing compares to qmail
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-EF60neguk
[19:14] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Is there already a gpg app for encryption on ubports?
 not that i'm aware of
 You can use the terminal for gpg... ^^
[19:31] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> So building an app around this shouldn't be the hardest
[19:32] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Hm
[19:32] <nerdboy> i think postfix makes better gateway
 @Andre Büsgen, What is this app going to encrypt?
[19:34] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Maybe it is possible to implement the gpg-app similar to openkeychain on android so apps could de- and encrypt data through it.
[19:34] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> This could bring gpg to apps like dekko
 @Andre Büsgen, Hard to imagine with the current hard confinement of apps, and the wont be able to interact easily.
[19:37] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Is it possible to let them communicate through temporary files?
 content-hub is the way to share data
 It's... special at times
[19:39] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Hm :/ but first I have to get my device up and running without problems
[19:39] <tgBot> <Callum Pearson> Is it possible to install the displaylink drivers? I've been using displaylink on my oneplus 5 with an Xbox one controller connected to play games and it would be amazing if we could get the same display out on Ubports.  http://www.displaylink.com/downloads/ubuntu
[19:43] <nerdboy> so it looks like HAVE_SYS_SYSMACROS_H is undefined *and* missing from the right header files
 Remember that you're on kernel 3.4
 @Callum Pearson, They might be x86-only
[19:55] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> When using clickable setup-lxd I get a connection refused error. Anyone experienced this error?
 @Andre Büsgen, To some extent yes this is possible. You could store data in temp and pass the location through content-hub or url-dispatcher to the receiving app. This isn't possible with snaps but click it is 😊
[20:10] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> So at least possible☺
[20:10] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Not beautiful but possible
 Yeah it's a rather wild form of ipc but yeah it's possible
 When is the stsble ota out?
 @prpleXist, This weekend is target ;)
 @Flohack, Any changes toward rc release?
 rc is released?
 since Mo
 Yes
 That release on Monday
 So yes its released ;) I dont get your question
 Between the release on Monday and the upcoming ota release
 No, its frozen. We got translation bugs and a small bug in the channel switcher
 But so far nothing critical
 Alright
 Thanks
 But since is UBUcon I am not sure what will happen 😆 maybe it was not the  best idea to select that weekend when all are out for fun ^^
 @Flohack, I didnt see you, are yoi coming?
[20:41]  * nerdboy wasn't kidding about stealing from gentoo
 @arudy, No sry didnt make it
[20:41] <nerdboy> we did steal debian social contract, so we are also fair game
 UBports does not steal anything
 Ok let me dring that unicorn (for true) beer for you :D
[20:42] <nerdboy> other devs (not me) spent a lot of time on process/other docs
 @arudy, meh :)
[20:42] <nerdboy> *award-winnings docs iirc
 @all does someone know where system-settings comes out as deb after build 😆
 This is the UbuCon cocktail :)
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/w8l4wyOj/file_455.jpg
 @nerdboy, Perfect. Let me hire you for documentation ;)
 @arudy, hehe what is inside
[20:43]  * nerdboy already has 18 customers, 3 kids, 5 cats, and a metric a**load of stuff to do
[20:44] <nerdboy> but if you're serious we cna try to fit it in...
[20:44] <nerdboy> i might actually know a technical writer who is available
[20:45] <nerdboy> or else he is in costa rica not working
 @Flohack, Pineapple, goyave, grenadine, and i think vodka
 @nerdboy, costa rica. flooded?
[20:46] <nerdboy> not sure
[20:46] <nerdboy> he used to work for linux foundation on yocto docs
[20:46] <nerdboy> they have docs almost as good as ours
[20:46] <nerdboy> bigger doesn't always equal better
 It would only make sense if he is interested in Ubuntu Touch and has a device, at least for the GUI stuff.
 Thanks!!! @DanChapman! https://open.uappexplorer.com/app/dekko2.dekkoproject
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #263: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/263/
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #981: SUCCESS in 1 min 2 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/981/
 @DanChapman, Did you get some?
[21:35] <nerdboy> you did ask me too, but he knows how to dig and document
[21:35] <nerdboy> because that's what he does
[21:37] <nerdboy> of course, foundation projects have more structure, etc
[21:38] <nerdboy> they have actual dev mtgs at least once a year (after elc normally)
 @UniversalSuperBox, OMG.....  I need a microHDMI connector to add to the zillion other cables…
 Nice work, guys https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/ubports-goes-ubucon-paris-71
 @Flohack, Hey!
 @BrisPete, 👍👍👍
 @UniversalSuperBox, As an apprentice to Dalton 😆
 @David_Gamiz_Jimenez, the keyboard is not displayed in Bq E4.5
[22:53] <tgBot> irhamni was added by: irhamni
 @irhamni, welcome muhammad!  Y
 Hi fellas I was looking to get a Nexus 5 I was thinking Amazon if so could you guys help me pick one out https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmobile&field-keywords=LG+Nexus+5
 for UBports and possibly plasma mobile
 Well I'm not a friend of Amazon, anyway you should look for one with an intact battery so you don't need to replace it. Maybe there are some stores of used devices with a good status.
 @nfsprodriver, The only reason I was thinking Amazon is I get a discount there lol my job. but true thanks I'll check out some local stores first.
 Well I menat online stores, but maybe...
 lol I live in Big City so maybe a little bit of both
 😊
 @wayneoutthere, Thanks
 And should I stay clear of the Nexus 5X
 Sorry I'm a bit lost when it comes to all this
 Well, the 5X doesn't run Ubuntu Touch yet
 And it's notorious for bootloops
 so
 👍
 N5 is the ultimate device for different OS support (Android, Lineage OS, Sailfish OS, UBports Touch, Plasma Mobile, Firefox OS...)
 👍 UBports and plasma mobile are the two main ones I want to test out
 Being that I run plasma 5
 Living in the u.s. is it going to be hard to get service
 Sorry for all these questions
 Do you have a GSM or CDMA carrier that the Nexus 5 supports
 yes
 Then no, slap in the SIM and you'll be good to go
 cool thanks
 Might need to set up the NAM, but that's normal
 NAM?
 Yeah, your carrier options
 Looks like I got a lot to read I don't want to go into this half-cocked lol
 It's actually called an APN


[23:49] <bigjools> roaksoax: on the offchance you are around, we have critical revisions in maas trunk that need to get into saucy.  SRU is probably ok if it's done immediately on release.
[23:51] <roaksoax> bigjools: i. not really ;) automated response
[23:51] <roaksoax> lol
[23:51] <bigjools> :)
[23:51] <roaksoax> bigjools: send me an email with the buglist
[23:51] <bigjools> will do
[23:51] <roaksoax> thanks
[23:52] <bigjools> on its way
[23:53] <bigjools> there's a packaging change as well
[23:53] <roaksoax> bigjools: cool thanks
[23:54] <bigjools> roaksoax: and thank you
[23:58] <roaksoax> bigjools: ill have to cherry pick btw
[23:58] <bigjools> roaksoax: ok
[23:58] <bigjools> let me check revs
[23:58] <roaksoax> ill take care of that so no worries :)
[23:58] <bigjools> roaksoax: ok there are more bugs
[23:59] <bigjools> will email