[04:11] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Real-time Linux: a comprehensive guide @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/real-time-linux-whitepaper
[11:33] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: Live Mixing with PipeWire and Ardour/Harrison Mixbus @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJM-RdA7iZw
[11:33] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: Hands-on containerisation: chiseling .NET 8 applications with Ubuntu @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFaGZf-C_6o
[11:33] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: From Zero to Hero: HPC Edition @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snxjV9ZStdI


[00:37] <Grackle> Hi, I have a new driver for a realtek device, and I'd like to add it to the ubuntu repositories.
[00:38] <Grackle> It's an RTL8187SE. The driver was released (well, procured) yesterday. It's GPL'd. I made some modifications to compile it for the ubuntu hardy kernel
[00:39] <Grackle> It now works... so... yeah.
[00:39] <Grackle> I've never done any work in a linux distribution development process, much less ubuntu's
[00:39]  * Grackle is looking for some help and guidance
[00:49] <TheMuso> Grackle: I think it also wouldn't hurt sending an email to the kernel team mailing list<EMAIL_ADDRESS>so your message is seen.
[11:37] <stgraber> Looks like my custom dsdt isn't loaded on Intrepid, is it a known issue ?
[11:37] <stgraber>  /proc/acpi/dsdt doesn't match the one in /etc/initramfs-tools/DSDT.aml
[11:38] <stgraber> causing my fans to go crazy with Intrepid (that's something I changed in my custom DSDT)
[11:49] <stgraber> Filed bug 246222
[11:50] <stgraber> -ENOBOT :(
[11:52] <alex_joni> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/246222
[14:32] <noelferreira> to eliminate the keys getting stuck and key repeat bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/124406 - i disabled ACPI in my boot loader. However without ACPI my computer is always changing this brightness level (like every second). So now i can't complete work with or without ACPI. My system is completely unstable. This happens since i upgraded to hardy heron beta. Even if i change Gconf-editor in order not to automaticall
[14:32] <noelferreira> y change brigthness level  this happens. Please let me now a workaround for this. I used Ubuntu since 'always' and i don't want to change distro now. please let me now a workaround for this. thanks
[15:41] <Kano> hi BenC , rtg
[15:41] <Kano> rtg: still working on hardy?
[15:41] <rtg> Kano: yep
[15:42] <Kano> rtg: http://kanotix.com/files/kernel/unused-patches/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-2.6.24.uvcvideo.medion-e1210.patch
[15:42] <Kano> thats for hardy
[15:42] <Kano> this is the medium variant of the msi wind netbook
[15:42] <Kano> for the integrated webcam, needs a similar hack like all other hacks for some cards
[15:43] <Kano> [ 4348.883617] uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device BisonCam, NB Pro (5986:0141)
[15:43] <Kano> when you use it
[15:44] <Kano> Medion Akoya mini E1210 is it called
[15:45] <Kano> http://www.aldi-sued.de/de/html/offers/2827_7018.htm
[15:45] <Kano> boots only with hardy .1
[15:47] <rtg> Kano: how about sending a patch to akpm for the E1210? It should be in the uvc_ids[] array in drivers/media/video/uvc/uvc_driver.c
[15:48] <Kano> it is in that array, look at the patch
[15:49] <Kano> just an added entry with different id + comment
[16:13] <Kano> rtg: did you notice that uvcvideo is in 2.6.26-rc9?
[16:15] <rtg> Kano: See previous comment: ' It should be in the uvc_ids[] array in drivers/media/video/uvc/uvc_driver.'
[16:15] <rtg> Kano: that is the path in the kernel sources.
[16:15] <Kano> rtg: well that patch was for hardy lum
[16:16] <rtg> Kano: I realize that, but I also noticed when uvc was included in the main kernel.
[16:29] <lamont> rtg: btw, apt-get build-dep linux-source-2.6.26 fails on intrepid/sparc
[16:31] <Kano> rtg: do you know when rc9 will be merged?
[16:33] <rtg> lamont: whats missing? BenC has been doing the Intrepid stuff lately.
[16:33] <lamont> makekerneldump ish
[16:33]  * lamont doesn't have the error in front of him atm
[16:33] <rtg> Kano: when BenC gets to it. He  was on holiday this weekend.
[16:34] <lamont> E: Build-Depends dependency for linux cannot be satisfied because the package makedumpfile cannot be found
[16:34] <rtg> lamont: iirc, its waiting on a MIR.
[16:34] <Kano> lamont: wow you found that too ;) i had to fetch it from launchpad
[16:35] <lamont> rtg: universe is in the list though...
[16:38] <rtg> lamont: thats outside my area of expertise. we'll have to get BenC to comment.
[16:55] <BenC> lamont: makedumpfile was built on sparc it seems, and moved to main recently
[16:55] <BenC> lamont: oh wait, main linux package wont build on sparc anyway
[16:55] <BenC> it's not meant to
[16:55] <lamont> ah, ok
[17:32] <BenC> -rc9 is rebased and pushed
[17:32] <Kano> BenC: did you remove ubuntu/uvcvideo?
[17:33] <Kano> if not,please do
[18:14] <Kano> BenC: can you adopt this patch on your own: http://kanotix.com/files/kernel/unused-patches/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-2.6.24.uvcvideo.medion-e1210.patch
[18:14] <Kano> just a different -p option needed
[18:14] <Kano> in the right dir
[18:15] <BenC> "EE: 4181 symbols changed hash and weren't ignored"
[18:15] <BenC> rc8 to rc9...something core in the kernel must have changed
[18:15] <rtg> BenC: ABI bump time
[18:46] <zul> is it just me or this little weird in the server config file:
[18:46] <zul> CONFIG_XEN=y
[18:46] <zul> CONFIG_XEN_BLKDEV_FRONTEND=m
[18:46] <zul> CONFIG_XEN_NETDEV_FRONTEND=m
[21:33] <BenC> zul: you don't think people would use a xen guest as a server?
[21:34] <BenC> well, everything from lum is now in intrepid kernel, with the exception of lirc
[21:41] <zul> BenC: no I wasnt expecting it :)
[22:02] <Kano> hi, it seems you are adding now extra drivers. do you want to add gspca too and maybe the ralink draft-n drivers (rt2860/rt2870)
[22:03] <Kano> gspca should the easy
[22:09] <BenC> gspca is already there
[22:10] <Kano> hmm, will look again
[22:10] <BenC> ubuntu/misc/media/gspcav1/
[22:14] <mkrufky> BenC: did you have to patch au0828 / au8522 / xc5000 ?  afaik, there was only 1 xc5000 patch that didnt make it into 2.6.26
[22:25] <BenC> mkrufky: uh...what are those? :)
[22:26] <mkrufky> they're in hardy LUM
[22:26] <mkrufky> heh
[22:27] <mkrufky> if you didnt port them to the intrepid kernel, that's fine ////  i'll submit them again when i get around to it
[22:27] <mkrufky> BenC: ^^
[22:27] <mkrufky> BenC: so, those three are in the Hardy LUM ubuntu/media/au0828
[22:28] <mkrufky> BenC: and afaik, 2.6.26 will have the same versions, except missing 1 change on the xc5000
[22:28] <BenC> mkrufky: No, they must have showed up after I snapshot lum for intrepid
[22:28] <mkrufky> ah, that would explain it
[22:28] <mkrufky> so, i would say dont bother with the those three above....   if need be, i can port the missing change, but it shouldnt matter
[22:29] <mkrufky> and the other driver i added to LUM, sms1xxx -- that one i would also wait on merging to intrepid.  once sms1xxx gets into mainline, i'll send you a pull request
[22:43] <Kano> BenC: http://kanotix.com/files/kernel/kernel-update-pack-generic-next/source/2.6.26-uvc_driver-medion-e1210.patch
[22:43] <Kano> uvc patch for 2.6.26 and medion webcam
[22:44] <Kano> could you please add it
[22:44] <mkrufky> Kano: its added already
[22:44] <Kano> mkrufky: when?
[22:44] <mkrufky> now, seriously.....  if you just sent it to uvcvideo, it would have been done by now
[22:44] <mkrufky> and you wouldnt have had to ask a thousand times
[22:45] <mkrufky> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy-lum.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdca2d54267cf74787b8ff59b20a9c8fcfcca7d0
[22:45] <mkrufky> done
[22:45] <Kano> mkrufky: that patch is for intrepid
[22:45] <mkrufky> anyway, i am just a developer -- i dont represent ubuntu
[22:45] <Kano> of course same patch, just differnt file
[23:22] <Kano> BenC: gpsca is not enabled
[23:22] <Kano> 100%, just compiled
[23:22] <Kano> there is no module gspca
[23:32] <tormod> I saw prism2_usb just got back into Intrepid. Can you please update it, as per bug 245026?
[23:36] <Kano> tormod: you are the one with the xserver repo, right
[23:38] <tormod> Kano: yes
[23:39] <Kano> do you package the normal ones too?
[23:40] <tormod> no, that would be tjaalton (on #ubuntu-x)
[23:44] <Kano> BenC: do you want some more fimeware to add?
[23:44] <Kano> http://machts.net/Cinergy_HT_USB_XE/xc3028-v27.fw
[23:44] <Kano> http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/firmware/dvb-usb-dtt200u-01.fw
[23:44] <Kano> these are definitely missing
[23:46] <mkrufky> Kano: when you locate the distribution license for the xceive firmware, please send me a copy
[23:51] <Kano> no idea where to find, maybe ask terratec


[18:09] <jasono> Hi, new Project/Team on Launchpad. Members needed. https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-advertising


[07:24] <didrocks> good morning
[07:25] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> hey duflu
[08:40] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:42] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[08:42] <oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu, had a good week-end?
[08:43] <duflu> oSoMoN, it was a blur.  Yeah as James alludes it is actually cooler than usual here. Just not for most of the continent
[09:12] <duflu> Well, has been many days
[09:13] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke, Nafallo
[09:13] <jamesh> http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW6111.latest.shtml <- we've mostly been looking at low 30s or high 20s
[09:13] <duflu> The heatwave when from NW to SE, but we are SW
[09:14] <duflu> Morning Nafallo
[09:24] <duflu> Bah, anything I say will be subjective and out of date. This is happier news though jamesh, https://www.watercorporation.com.au/water-supply/rainfall-and-dams/dam-levels
[09:25] <Trevinho> morning!
[09:26] <duflu> Hi Trevinho
[09:45] <Laney> hey Trevinho, how's it going?
[09:56] <Trevinho> ah hey duflu and Laney...
[09:57] <Trevinho> all good, you?
[10:03] <Laney> pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
[10:17] <Trevinho> don't know if already asked, but anyone could publish this when has a second https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3596 (maybe would be better to do the direct upload as SRU people doesn't like ppa syncs)
[10:20] <seb128> Trevinho, do you know why the billeto diffs are empty recently (it is at least in this one and one other of the recent landing I landed for you)
[10:21] <Trevinho> nope, I've noticed that too though
[10:21] <Trevinho> sil2100: do you know that ^
[10:21] <Trevinho> ?
[10:21] <Trevinho> hi seb128 btw :)
[10:21] <seb128> hey trevinho :)
[10:21] <seb128> I can upload that SRU btw
[10:21] <seb128> we need it for bionic as well btw (unsure if that was already handled)
[10:22] <Trevinho> seb128: as far I know bionic wasn't affected.
[10:23] <seb128> trevinho, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1769383 was reported on bionic though and that's were most comments are coming from?
[10:24] <seb128> e.G https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1812407
[10:25] <seb128> Trevinho, SRU uploaded "old school diff" way so the queue has a proper diff to review and not a sync to make the SRU team more likely to review
[10:26] <Trevinho> seb128: thanks
[10:26] <seb128> np
[10:26] <Trevinho> seb128: ah ok I had a src ready for that too
[10:27] <seb128> k, please get it ready for sponsoring then :)
[10:27] <seb128> it's on the .2 importants bugs list
[10:27] <Trevinho> ah I had it ready but without that fix, then let me include it
[10:27] <Trevinho> 5 minutes..
[10:28] <seb128> k
[10:32] <seb128> Trevinho, I'm going for early lunch now so take your time, I look at the bionic one once I'm back
[10:32] <sil2100> Trevinho: uh oh, didn't know about this
[10:32] <sil2100> Let me investigate
[10:32] <Trevinho> seb128: I'm done if you want
[10:33] <seb128> trevinho, k, url? :)
[10:35] <Trevinho> seb128: https://cloud.trevi.me/index.php/s/WZ7YAspt3wWDbJN
[11:14] <willcooke> Trevinho, oops.  I just approved your targeting for bionic for #1809129
[11:14] <willcooke> I dont think I should have been so hasty
[11:14] <willcooke> It's a change in UX, and so I think we should talk about it some more
[11:14] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1809129
[11:15] <willcooke> Do we have any previous examples of where we made such a change?  FWIR, such things are generally not the done thing
[11:15] <Trevinho> willcooke: well, such UX changes have been done in the past in SRUs, until they don't really change text, or completely the way of acting, isn't it?
[11:15] <Trevinho> I mean in unity at least we were doing changes bigger than this in SRUs :)
[11:16] <willcooke> I think it might lead to confusion if people have learned the current way of doing it.
[11:16] <Trevinho> as I think it's not really changing any way of using the tool, just tuning a bit
[11:16] <willcooke> That said, personally, I think the new way is better
[11:16] <Trevinho> well, they will be confused anyway on next one
[11:16] <Trevinho> next LTS I mean
[11:17] <Trevinho> but honestly, I don't think it's something you do repeadly in a way that breaks any muscle memory
[11:17] <willcooke> sure, but that's a new version.  I think it's fine to expect things to be done differently in a new release, espeically when it's been that way for a couple of releases
[11:17] <Trevinho> I'd see if it was something like alt-tab behavior change, but...
[11:17] <willcooke> @ muscle memory, I disagree
[11:17] <willcooke> I have trained myself a bit
[11:17] <willcooke> and it took some getting used to
[11:18] <willcooke> I'll speak to mpt and see if he has any views
[11:18] <Trevinho> ok, let me know
[11:18] <willcooke> Trevinho, I'll cc you on the mail
[11:23] <andyrock> morning all!
[11:25] <Laney> willcooke: also accepting nominations like that means we end up with orpaned entries on -tracking - we had a case of that last week too (not sure if that was you mind)
[11:25]  * Laney 💓 process
[11:25] <willcooke> Laney, yeah, I didnt mean to click that
[11:25] <Laney> but yes, that kind of behaviour change is worth discussing more imho
[11:25] <Laney> think seb128 said that last time this one came up
[11:25] <willcooke> Laney, can I undo that?
[11:26] <Laney> there's a delete button but Incomplete might be ok too
[11:26] <willcooke> Can I just remove the Bionic target?
[11:26] <Laney> guess Trevinho can be assigned anyway :P
[11:26] <willcooke> I'd rather get back to the state where it was just nominated
[11:26] <willcooke> or waiting for approval or whatever it was
[11:26] <Laney> not sure you can re-nominate
[11:26] <Laney> try it?
[11:26] <Laney> or remove + incoming
[11:27] <Trevinho> willcooke: I've done that
[11:27] <Trevinho> removed + requested again
[11:27] <willcooke> Trevinho, nice one, thanks!
[11:27] <willcooke> sorry about that
[11:28] <willcooke> Trevinho, I've emailed mpt
[11:28] <willcooke> lets see what he says
[11:28] <willcooke> And even then, I think it's worth talking about a bit more with interested parties
[11:28] <willcooke> Trevinho, do you feel strongly that it should go in?
[11:29] <Trevinho> I've not that strong opinion, I've just added it since it was something I thought it was quite required
[11:29] <Trevinho> and didn't look like a big UX change to me not to be blocked
[12:21] <seb128> willcooke, trevinho, up to the SRU, I think behaviour changes in a SRU are an issue because it confuses some users and part of our corporate users expect stability/not having to deal with confused staff on a stable product, but that one is minor so could be ok
[12:22] <seb128> Trevinho, "next LTS" is a milestone where e.g corporate IT departement expect to have to do some training or such so changes are ok
[12:22] <Trevinho> yeah, sure, as said I would consider this such change quite minor, but...
[12:23] <Trevinho> not really strong opinioned on it
[12:24] <willcooke> seb128, I agree with you.  I'll let you know what mpt thinks.  And then I think we have enough input to make a decision
[12:25]  * willcooke -> lunch
[13:45] <marcustomlinson> willcooke, kenvandine: welcome back to winter :P
[13:46] <willcooke> hi marcustomlinson
[13:57] <jbicha> seb128: hi, could you demote totem-plugin-gromit and totem-plugin-zeitgeist to disco-proposed/universe. They are new binary packages and should let us kick zeitgeist out of main once it migrates out of proposed
[14:19] <seb128> jbicha, hey, sure, btw we have http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html so no need to manually nag people about those binary demotions
[14:19] <seb128> (unless it's urgent for some reason, but that doesn't seem the case here)
[14:23] <jbicha> ok, I guess it shows up on the update_excuses_by_team page which we do look at regularly too :)
[14:29] <seb128> right
[15:05] <tomreyn> is there any situation where, when using do-release-upgrade for 16.04 -> 18.04, xserver-xorg was installed initially, but you end up with xwayland? it is possible that no *ubuntu-desktop package was installed.
[15:06] <seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, we got some report on bionic from the keyboard layout indicator showing empty (no layout label), the warnings in those reports look like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/187 ... could be that one in 3.28/the coming SRU?
[15:06] <gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 187 in gnome-shell "keyboard: defer position-changed till we have a rect" [Merged]
[15:06] <Trevinho> seb128: I think I'm affected right now https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/n2Ku4dAD/image.png
[15:07] <seb128> right :)
[15:07] <seb128> trevinho, do you have those warning in your journal?
[15:07] <seb128> JS ERROR: Exception in callback for signal: position-changed: TypeError: this._rect is undefined
[15:07] <Trevinho> and... Ok, I can indeed backport it
[15:07] <Trevinho> let me check
[15:08] <Trevinho> mh, no
[15:08] <seb128> :(
[15:09] <seb128> well in any case that commit seems right/to make sense
[15:09] <Trevinho> the commit does, but don't know it will fix that specific thing yet
[15:10] <Trevinho> I mean I can backport it, but if then it doesn't fix that specific bug we'll not endup in getting verifications...
[15:10] <Trevinho> also because here it happens after some time
[15:11] <Trevinho> and... an alt+f2 fixes it :/
[15:11] <Trevinho> alt+f2 -> r
[15:11] <tomreyn> seb128: i've had this in my journal until i removed one of the keyboard locales (had english + german, now only german), which causes the locale chooser to no longer show on the panel. while i had both locales available, the chooser did show up correctly on the panel, though. I.e. i don't think this error is indicative of the current locale not showing oin the panel.
[15:12] <seb128> tomreyn, ok, thanks
[15:13] <seb128> Trevinho, right, well we can make the SRU verification to be what is the bug description upstream, "using doubleclick on titlebar of any window to maximize/minimize, check if there is a warning in the log"
[15:13] <seb128> if that's enough to trigger the warning
[15:13] <seb128> I need to reinstall bionic, I upgraded my main partition to disco and my test laptop is on cosmic
[15:15] <seb128> Laney, hey, is it useful to debug/report upstream glib 2.59 issues at this point or is there known problems with that version which it's better to wait to get fixed before wasting time investigating things that a known/being handled upstream already?
[15:16] <Laney> seb128: there's a few fixes upstream already, like some vala thing that ricot_z mentioned
[15:17] <Laney> if you want to try with a master build (e.g. jhbuild), do so, otherwise I'd wait until .1
[15:19] <seb128> Laney, I guess I'm going to wait for .1 if that's not in too long
[15:35] <seb128> Laney, reported https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/issues/1659 anyway, they can close if it it's fixed
[15:35] <gitbot> GNOME issue 1659 in glib "[2.59] gnome-keyring pkcs11/secret-store/test-secret-item.c test fails since update" [Opened]
[15:36] <Laney> k
[15:37] <seb128> deja-dup also fails to build
[15:37] <seb128> but that's vala so maybe it's the ricot_z issue
[15:41] <ricotz> seb128, Laney, the vala issue with glib 2.59.0 is a runtime problem concerning an GTask ABI change
[15:44] <seb128> ricotz, well, the deja-dup tests timeout for some reason
[15:44] <seb128> could be it
[15:45] <Laney> might want to delete this version from proposed
[15:45] <Laney> seems like it sucks a bit
[15:45] <ricotz> seb128, ah, ok, I thought it literally fails to build
[15:45] <ricotz> I/it
[15:45] <seb128> the package build fails on failing tests
[15:45] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I was syncing the same, I've at least 2 packages failing to build due to it and there is a stack of unhappy autopkgtests
[15:46] <seb128> might be good to investigate/upstream some of the issues first though
[15:47] <Laney> probably be more productive to do that with a more recent version
[15:48] <andyrock> seb128: Trevinho: I reproduce the bug too
[15:48] <andyrock> I've the following in the journal
[15:48] <seb128> Laney, k, should I delete it then and we try again once we get .1?
[15:48] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8UlAgY0c/
[15:48] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/WzS5d3hm/
[15:49] <seb128> andyrock, that warning seems like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/414
[15:49] <Laney> seb128: if you think that's a sensible thing to do
[15:49] <gitbot> GNOME issue 414 in gnome-shell "keyboard: _currentWindow can be null in FocusTracker" [Closed]
[15:49] <Laney> I mean might be worth trying those builds in a ppa without proposed
[15:49] <Laney> ... if they are failing for some other reason ...
[15:49] <seb128> well, I tried locally after downgrading glib and they work
[15:49] <seb128> and upgrading they fail
[15:50] <Laney> k, well if you're happy
[15:51] <seb128> yeah, let's do that
[15:51] <seb128> thx Laney
[15:52] <Laney> I'll try gnome-keyring in jhbuild, that one should be easy enough
[15:52] <seb128> thx
[15:53] <Laney> had my time today consumed with autopkgtest falling over in like 4 different ways
[15:58] <seb128> :(
[16:08] <Laney> AHHH YEAHHHH git bisect run
[16:10] <seb128> :)
[16:26] <Laney> git bisect run --help is an awful thing
[16:26] <Laney> it executes "--help"
[16:26] <Laney> which probably ruins your in progress bisect :<
[16:28] <seb128> :(
[17:46] <kenvandine> marcustomlinson: no kidding.  I'm in the mountains snowboarding now after leaving summer on Friday 😀
[17:47] <marcustomlinson> :)
[18:03] <willcooke> hey kenvandine
[18:04] <kenvandine> Hey willcooke
[18:05] <kenvandine> It's -21 with the wind chill here!
[18:05] <kenvandine> -21F that is
[18:05] <kenvandine> -9F actual
[18:05] <kenvandine> What a shock for my body 😀
[18:29] <willcooke> kenvandine, yowzer!
[18:40] <Trevinho> willcooke: mh mpt no answered yet, if you want we can prepare an upload without it, and in case we add
[18:41] <willcooke> Trevinho, yes please - don't upload to Bionic.  I don't think it's the right thing to do.  If anyone wants to argue strongly to do it, then we can discuss, but right now I think we have to leave B as it is.
[18:57] <Trevinho> willcooke: No, I meant, let's upload without not to waste time :)
[18:58] <willcooke> I'm not sure I follow you, "upload without" i.e. upload with out the Bionic part?
[18:58] <willcooke> Trevinho, ^
[18:58] <willcooke> you're saying you're going to upload only to Disco?
[18:58] <Trevinho> willcooke: yes :)
[18:58] <willcooke> Trevinho, got ya!  Sounds good, thanks!
[18:58] <Trevinho> :)
[19:12] <Trevinho> seb128: can you please pull https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+git/gnome-settings-daemon/+ref/ubuntu/bionic (with tags) in ubuntu-desktoP?
[19:12] <Trevinho> (it's just syncing with what the distro has)
[19:47] <willcooke> night all
[19:48] <seb128> Trevinho, k, I tried, let me know if I start getting along with git better :)
[20:13] <Trevinho> seb128: if you can upload, here I've pushed also the dock without that change
[20:13] <Trevinho> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3597/+packages
[20:15] <seb128> trevinho, I uploaded the one from this morning, is there an issue with it?
[20:18] <Trevinho> seb128: bionic?
[20:18] <Trevinho> the bionic one had that fix changing ux..
[20:19] <Trevinho> so might need to change version then, but I'm about to leave now 😢
[21:03] <seb128> Trevinho, right, well we said it's minor so I upload and let's see what the SRU team think, if they don't like it we reupload without


[00:00] <valorie> !es | [AdMiN]
[00:07] <hrocha> Hi
[00:08] <hrocha> somebody can help me to make a swap archive?
[00:11] <hrocha> somebody read me?
[00:20] <user|82819> hello
[02:30] <viewer|91293> can you consider Ubuntu 18.04
[02:31] <viewer|91293> I was told my Ubuntu 17.04 e.o.l
[02:33] <viewer|91293> i have kubuntu 17.04 and kde plasma 5.9.4 with my kubuntu install
[02:35] <viewer|91293> i was needing help changing my network workgroup name in kde or command prompt
 Hi
 Hi :)
[11:46] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:47] <diogenes_> hi
[11:48] <BluesKaj> hey
[12:38] <user|48873> how to enable root login on the login screen
[12:39] <Tm_T> user|48873: you don't
[12:39] <BluesKaj> this not debian
[12:39] <BluesKaj> is not
[12:39] <BluesKaj> Hi Tm_T , LTNS!
[12:45] <Tm_T> hi BluesKaj
[13:20] <usrshv> there is tolls for replace update manager (discover) in kubuntu? can i update kubuntu with update-notifier from ubuntu-mate?
[13:24] <usrshv>  there is tolls for replace update manager (discover) in kubuntu? can i update kubuntu with update-notifier from ubuntu-mate?
 How can I connect to WiFi network?
[13:46] <usrshv> click on notification, "network" (tray at bottom right).
 But network doesn't show wifi symbol
 Can I enable WiFi through cammands?
[13:49] <usrshv> did you see the checkboxes? is wifi enabled?
 That's what I'm saying I can see any option to enable wifi
 *I can't
 Sorry
[13:51] <usrshv> in upper left corner of "networks" si two checkboxes.. is left one checked?
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/wNglAKWQ/file_5899.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/57YzIt5K/file_5901.jpg
[13:53] <hateball> sanath, perhaps your wifi card has not had its drivers installed? or there is a physical kill switch for it?
 How to install drivers for WiFi card?
[13:54] <usrshv> try in terminal without quotas " nmcli g "
 I don't have any physical kill switch on keyboard
 Ok I'll try
[13:54] <usrshv> that will show is there wifi hardware present..
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/LzFfpgd1/file_5903.jpg
 It says state disconnected
[13:59] <usrshv> try " nmcli networking on " ?
[14:00] <usrshv> then " nmcli g " , maybe...
 @usrshv, Didn't work
[14:01] <usrshv> that worked before on ubuntu?
 I don't know I didn't had ubuntu
 I recently Installed kubuntu
[14:03] <usrshv> " nmcli radio all on " ?
[14:04] <usrshv> nmcli g still says "connectivity unknown" ?
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/XlPCD20E/file_5905.jpg
[14:08] <usrshv> ok, i simple user, so last ones: check in tray "airplane mode", then uncheck... https://irc-attachments.kde.org/wNglAKWQ/file_5899.jpg
[14:09] <usrshv> works?
 I have it unchecked from the beginning
[14:10] <usrshv> you need to see ! two ! checkboxes. just switch that one on and then off. Just maybe?
[14:11] <diogenes_> IrcsomeBot, what's the issue?
[14:12] <usrshv> diogenes [20:52] https://irc-attachments.kde.org/wNglAKWQ/file_5899.jpg that his issue
[14:12] <usrshv> https://irc-attachments.kde.org/XlPCD20E/file_5905.jpg and that
[14:15] <diogenes_> did it work in live usb session?
 Yes
[14:16] <diogenes_> IrcsomeBot, go to driver manager and see what driver your network card is using
[14:16] <diogenes_> and if it has an alternative driver for it
[14:18] <usrshv> Ircsomebot Alt + SPACE , type " sy " , press ENTER. driver manager in hardware section.
 Where is hardware section?
 I can't see it
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/VVTnG94H/file_5907.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/TedZ4EVF/file_5909.jpg
 Sorry
 I can see it
 😬
[14:21] <usrshv> scroll down to the bottom )
[14:22] <usrshv> double click on the titlebar, to maximize window. you also can customize settings of window manager later, to auto maximize.
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/07w10Iat/file_5911.jpg
 The box was unchecked, I checked it now
 Applying changes
[14:23] <diogenes_> apply cahges
[14:23] <diogenes_> yes
 Loading
[14:24] <diogenes_> also you can tick the micrococe intel too
[14:24] <diogenes_> reboot afterwards
 Yes I checked it too
[14:24] <usrshv> not do that
 Why?
[14:25] <usrshv> after recent updates, i never seen that checkbox (intel) ever again.
[14:27] <usrshv> first install broadcom, then reboot, then install additional drivers...
[14:28] <usrshv> Better, (of course if were network working) first update, only then look, if the proprietary drivers still availible (may glitch).
 It glitched😭
[14:31] <usrshv> How current state? drivers downloaded?
 Rebooting
[14:31] <usrshv> good luck!
 The screen is glitched
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/WtlSddvc/file_5913.jpg
[14:37] <usrshv> is network works, any way?
 No
[14:37] <diogenes_> IrcsomeBot, disable secureboot
 Do I need to disable UEFI secure boot?
[14:38] <usrshv> IcsomeBot yes and NO... time...
 ?
[14:39] <usrshv> I - disabled, but... you may be need to reinstall kubuntu. my UEFI not recognized installation, after secboot disabled.
[14:40] <usrshv> you know how to disable secureboot?
 Then what to do?
[14:41] <usrshv> try, you anyway can enable it later.
 @usrshv, No
[14:41] <usrshv> ?
 I don't know how to disable secure boot
[14:44] <usrshv> In my laptop, i need press and keep F2 when !! computer boots !!. to enter BIOS. see in Internet about that.. you may try delete key.
[14:45] <usrshv> If succesfull, you will see diffirent options there.. (in BIOS).
 Is it safe to do that?
[14:47] <usrshv> Yes, if before press anything in BIOS, you will read small text in it.
[14:47] <usrshv> First, search
[14:48] <usrshv> First, search in Internet "how enter BIOS" for you laptop model!
[14:48] <usrshv> And see screenshots, fear no.
[14:49] <usrshv> IrcsomeBot do you understend my runglish ) ?
 Yes😊
[15:42] <D0U91E> 18.04 released?
[15:42] <D0U91E> :(
[15:43] <genii> The 26th
[15:43] <usrshv> DOU91E yes, but not yet, as people at REACT OS says )
[15:46] <D0U91E> thanks guys
[15:46] <D0U91E> usrshv, I dont understand
[15:47] <genii> D0U91E: What version are you currently on?
[15:47] <usrshv> DOU91E joke. "It released, yes.   I agree!
 My problem didn't solve but still thank you guys for your awesome assistance.
[16:05] <usrshv> IcsomeBot do you disabled secureboot?
 I didn't enable it
[16:12] <usrshv> IcsomeBot  https://irc-attachments.kde.org/WtlSddvc/file_5913.jpg your screenshot, see? enabled by default. so you need disable that, as diogenes_ say?
[16:17] <usrshv> IrcsomeBot: [21:37] <diogenes_> IrcsomeBot, disable secureboot
[16:17] <usrshv> You not enabled it, but that vendor preset, maybe.
[16:25] <usrshv> IrcsomeBot what will you do, then?
[16:33] <acheronuk> usrshv: 'IrcsomeBot' is a telegraph to IRC bridge bot relaying messages, so it makes no sense to address it like that ;)
[16:33] <acheronuk> *telegram
[16:36] <usrshv> acheronuk | How bot determine, then, to whoam i adresses? Or that spread "incoming" messagers from there?
 <--- the name there in the <>
[16:39] <acheronuk> ^ me replying via telegram
[16:41] <usrshv> 99 bot over there, 99 bot of us \__(*L*)__/.. Take one down and pass around, 98 bots over there... )
[16:42] <usrshv> IrcsomeBot - are you are the <acheronuk>?
 My name is Sanath
 only when I'm replying via telegram
 and <acheronuk> company! what you gonna do with secureboot?
[16:49] <user|62362> Hello, when approx. will be 18.04 realese? hanks for advance
[16:50] <usrshv> user|62362 someone sayed, that 26th will... [22:43] <genii> The 26th
[16:51] <user|62362> thanks you, have a nice day/night )
[17:14] <usrshv> did someon know, how autoexit konsole?
[17:15] <diogenes_> usrshv, what do you mean?
 Type exit
[17:18] <usrshv> I mean " konsole -e cd /home/usrshv/tor-browser_en-US/Browser | exec ./start-tor-browser ", to konsole close itself after command executed. Thanks >> diogenes_ , SanathShetty!
[17:20] <usrshv> I need to go and fall in my bed. Good Luck, friends!
[17:22] <genii> Try --nofork
[18:04] <Guest4114> hi
[18:05] <Guest4114> does anyone installed kubuntu 17.10 on usb stick?
 Yes
 I did
[18:09] <Guest4114> the botmanager won't load by install any ideas?
[18:10] <jalcine> you have to give a bit more information than that, Guest4114
[18:10] <jalcine> like what do you see? what kind of log messages are showing for you?
[18:13] <Guest4114> kubuntu 17.10 try to make a new install amd64 bit
[18:14] <aboudreault> Hola
[18:14] <aboudreault> When is planned the GA of Kubuntu Bionic?
[18:16] <Guest4114> jalcine from the install gui is only error about the bootlader 2nd try I have ignored now stocks by the time server
[18:18] <jalcine> aboudreault: it might be the 26th
[18:18] <aboudreault> jalcine, awesome
[18:20] <Guest4114> is pending by the time no installation progress :(
[18:53] <BionicMac> aboudreault: Here ya go : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseSchedule
[18:53] <aboudreault> ha, didn't know it was on the main ubuntu site. good to know
[18:54] <jalcine> nice nick BionicMac haha
[19:03] <ktecho> Hi. Is there any way to get kde apps 18.04 released today for kubuntu 18.04? Maybe in backports?
[19:13] <acheronuk> ktecho: what is in 18.04 apps that you want? we will be building them once 18.10 development gets under way for that, but we are in freeze right now
[19:28] <ktecho> acheronuk: what is in? I've read the announcement and everything is quite nice. I like dolphin improvements. I like having kbackup. And some others that I read about but cannot remember just right now.
[19:28] <ktecho> acheronuk: I understand about the freeze and maybe fixing pending kubuntu bugs is more important :)
[19:29] <ktecho> Just asking if some automatic building stuff were being made or if there are plans to release that :)
[19:29] <acheronuk> I have been doing initial packaging for kbackup today, as we are in sorta limbo right now
[19:29] <ktecho> I would hate to wait for kubuntu 18.10 to have all of that :)
[19:30] <ktecho> acheronuk: yeah, I was looking for a backup app and maybe kbackup would suit my needs :)
[19:30] <acheronuk> all this stuff builds in our CI, but outside that we have to do manual builds. well, I have a few things to upstream git builds elsewhere, but only 5 or 6 packages of interest
[19:31] <acheronuk> let me add kbackup to that
[19:41] <ktecho> nice
[19:42] <acheronuk> ktecho: building in https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
[19:43] <acheronuk> I've not tried this myself yet! :P
[19:46] <ktecho> If I add that experimental PPA, all the packages are going to be updated to experimental, right?
[19:49] <acheronuk> just grab the .deb if you want
[19:50] <BionicMac> jalcine: Thanks!
[19:51] <acheronuk> seems to work: https://i.imgur.com/0Vck2XW.png
[19:51] <ktecho> acheronuk. Nice!! Will try after dinner!
[20:53] <Guest20255> hi now grub-efi-amd64-signed unabe to install in /target/ system won't start without it :(
[20:56] <Guest20255> any ideas
[21:28] <ktecho> acheronuk: it works, thanks!
[21:29] <acheronuk> kool :)


 You know that feeling..
[16:09] <elacheche> Any way.. We have 2 events two.. One to celebrate 11th birthday of a FOSS club, and the Other is the famous Software Freedom Day
[16:15] <elacheche> what about you Kilos ?
[16:17] <Kilos> im ok ty elacheche
[16:17] <h0912> thanks Kilos
[16:18] <h0912> but i use to pass here when i have ocasion
[16:19] <Kilos> good h0912 we have our second meeting here in 2 days time
[16:20] <Kilos> elacheche i hope you havent forgotten
[16:20] <h0912> ok  i will attend
[16:20] <Kilos> cool
[16:20] <h0912> time please ?
[16:21] <Kilos> 18.50 GMT
[16:21] <Kilos> i get mixed up with all the time zones
[16:22] <Kilos> so 20.30 african time
[16:22] <elacheche> Kilos, first time to hear about this! :o
[16:22] <elacheche> o_O Where I was x(
[16:22] <elacheche> Need to add that to my calender
[16:23] <Kilos> elacheche dont you see a topic bar in your irc client
[16:23] <Kilos> Next meeting: Wed, 26 August 2015 18:30 GMT Agenda: http://bit.ly/1MVaVSu
[16:24] <elacheche> Didn't read topics for months now :/
[16:25] <Kilos> ai!
[16:25] <elacheche> :(
[16:25] <elacheche> Kilos, you'll have a SFD in ZA? http://softwarefreedomday.org/
[16:26] <Kilos> yes
[16:26] <Kilos> the pro knows all about it
[16:26] <elacheche> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/SouthAfrica/Pretoria
[16:26] <elacheche> :)
[16:27]  * elacheche need to go
[20:39] <melodie> hi
[20:39] <melodie> salut


[15:18] <fxpester> hi all, how to debug datasource discovery ? `cloud-init -d init` not initializing it, can`t debug configdrive descovery
[15:19] <smoser> fxpester,
[15:20] <fxpester> hihi
[15:24] <fxpester> in 'normal' logs I can see  `Command: ['mount', '-o', 'ro,sync', '-t', 'auto', '/dev/sda1', '/tmp/tmpxamurqwn']`
[15:24] <fxpester> but can`t find a way to reproduce it
[16:11] <smoser> fxpester, possibly you dont have a module loaded at that point in boot that you need and gets loaded later ?
[16:11] <smoser> what kernel /distro is this ?
[16:11] <smoser> if you could post both /var/log/cloud-init.log and /var/log/cloud-init-output.log tha'td hhelp
[16:12] <smoser> and also a dmesg maybe
[16:25] <Tugz> hey all
[16:25] <Tugz> question: how do i know which modules cloud-init 0.7.5 supports? This is on cnetos 7 and im trying to use disk_setup and fs_setup without success :(
[16:27] <blackboxsw> hey Tugz, checking  /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg should list module names that are configured for your environment.
[16:28] <blackboxsw> look under cloud_init_modules, cloud_config_modules and cloud_final_modules sections for the complete list
[16:28] <blackboxsw> of enabled modules
[16:28] <blackboxsw> I'd expect - disk_setup listed under cloud_init_modules section
[16:29] <blackboxsw>  - growpart
[16:29] <blackboxsw>  - resizefs
[16:29] <blackboxsw>  - disk_setup
[16:29] <blackboxsw>  are on my ubuntu instance
[16:34] <rharper> Tugz: this may be related, https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1672833 , the tl;dr was that the disk_setup module wasn't included in the /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg in some older releases;
[16:34] <rharper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1672833/comments/4
[16:34] <rharper> hackery to fixup in that comment if that's the case for your cent7 image
[17:28] <Tugz> hey blackboxsw where is this section?
[17:30] <Tugz> oh its on the .cfg found it
[17:30] <Tugz> thanks
[17:30] <blackboxsw> Tugz: older releases of cloud-init may not have the specific key name, but yeah /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[17:30] <Tugz> how do i know if this version of cloud init supports the modules?
[17:35] <blackboxsw> if the module exists on the config modules directory for your version then it is "available" on your platform.  Modules are all named cc_*py:     'rpm -ql cloud-init | grep cc_'
[17:35] <blackboxsw> the module is then enabled only if it is listed in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[17:36] <blackboxsw> so different platforms/images can "disable" a module by not listing the named module in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[17:36] <blackboxsw> even if it is installed in /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/cloudinit/config/cc_*py
[17:37] <blackboxsw> as a note, we just talked about the potential of surfacing a cmdline utility to do this introspection on your behalf to easily report availability && enabled/disabled for given features/modules
[17:49] <Tugz> blackboxsw, thanks fo rthe valuable info. much appreciated
[17:49] <blackboxsw> no worries Tugz, happy hacking
[21:44] <blackboxsw> hrm looks like we had dupes in https://trello.com/c/CAjwe8LX/273-cloud-init-sru-zesty-xenial for https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1701097
[21:44] <blackboxsw> It see it twice in our SRU list
[21:55] <rharper> blackboxsw: well, we get one for free then
[21:56] <blackboxsw> yeah already at 70%. man long day
[21:56] <blackboxsw> verifications 'r us
[21:57]  * blackboxsw needs to get a branch up to include net-convert in "cloud-init  devel" at some point
[21:57] <blackboxsw> it'd assist with half of these
[21:57] <blackboxsw> too many other fish to fry at the moment
[22:01] <rharper> blackboxsw: heh
[22:01]  * rharper has PYTHONPATH=`pwd` ./tools/net-convert.py  in history
[22:01] <rharper> but, yeah, would be nice to have it in subcommands
[22:02] <rharper> also, s/network_data.json/json in the input format parameter
[22:10] <blackboxsw> smoser: I'll probably need an assist validating SRU bug #1638931
[22:10] <blackboxsw> as I have no aliyun acct


[03:48] <lexhider> have the konqueror menus been changed by a kubuntu patch?
[03:54] <lexhider> ok, seems to be kubuntu-default-settings
[01:14] <tvo> Riddell: http://johanneswilm.isasecret.com/TC1000/0032-fix_rotated_randr.diff
[02:05] <Riddell> tvo: thanks :)
[02:05] <tvo> Riddell: is it going in? :p
[02:06] <[tvo] > i'm testing compiling qt with that patch now actually, to test it..
[02:08] <Riddell> tvo: where did you get it from, why do you need it?
[02:09] <[tvo] > I need it to be able to use xrandr (or kde's gui for it) to rotate my screen
[02:09] <[tvo] > you can rotate my tft to portrait view
[02:09] <[tvo] > but kde doesn't adapt
[02:10] <[tvo] > ie. the bottom of the desktop is like on the middle of my screen in portrait view :)
[02:10] <[tvo] > and there's a invisible piece of desktop
[02:11] <tvo> got it from: http://johanneswilm.isasecret.com/TC1000/
[02:12] <tvo> "HOWTO: Gentoo GNU/Linux on Compaq TC1000"
[02:13] <tvo> btw [tvo]  == me on KDE 3.4.9
[02:17] <Riddell> tvo: the patch in qt-copy is quite different http://websvn.kde.org/branches/qt/3.3/qt-copy/patches/0032-fix_rotated_randr.diff?rev=439328&view=log
[02:20] <tvo> Riddell: hmm, didn't see that one..
[02:21] <pef> hello
[02:21] <Riddell> "The old qt-copy patch #0032 was wrong"  maybe yours is the old one
[02:21] <Riddell> tvo: could you test both
[02:21] <pef> can I use kdesu in the command entry in debian/menu ?
[02:21] <Riddell> pef: don't see why not (and I presume they don't have a better way to call it)
[02:22] <tvo> Riddell: yep, I'm building with this Gentoo patch now, in % it won't take much time to test the other patch too :)
[02:22] <pef> Riddell: ok, thanks :)
[02:23] <Riddell> pef: but not in .desktop files
[02:24] <pef> Riddell: mm, why ?
[02:24] <Riddell> use X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true
[02:25] <pef> I will take a look to how ethereal does :)
[02:26] <Riddell> it uses both X-KDE-SubstituteUID and gksu, weird
[02:27] <pef> Riddell: and no *su  in .desktop, should I correct it ?
[02:28] <Riddell> pef: what's in there at the momenty
[02:28] <Riddell> ?
[02:28] <pef> Riddell: /usr/bin/ethereal
[02:28] <Riddell> well it works so don't correct it
[02:29] <pef> Riddell: launching it from debian menu entry makes ethereal less usefull :/ (and gives error when trying to sniff)
[02:30] <Riddell> weird, etherreal has two .desktop files, both with X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true but only 1 with gksu
[02:32] <pef> Riddell: gtksu and X-KDESubsituteUID are in conflicts, no ? it only needs X-KDE.. no ?
[02:33] <Riddell> for KDE yes
[02:33] <pef> Riddell: no way to be gnome/kde compatible ?
[02:43] <Riddell> pef: doesn't seem to be any nice way to be.  you may need two .desktop files one using X-KDE-SubstituteUID and OnlyShowIn=KDE  and one using gksu and don't show in KDE
[02:44] <pef> ugly :/
[02:45] <Riddell> yes
[03:37] <author> moin
[04:05] <tvo> Riddell: should I release the new kio-locate version before 11th?
[04:05] <tvo> or does it not matter
[04:06] <Riddell> tvo: what's the disadvantage in that?
[04:06] <tvo> Riddell: that I should start packaging really soon :)
[04:07] <tvo> maybe without all intended bugfixes
[04:08] <tvo> Riddell: if it doesn't matter, it seems better to me to wait until I fixed the docs
[04:09] <Riddell> tvo: I need to ask mdz about moving that stuff to main, unless it's in main it doesn't really matter
[04:09] <tvo> Riddell: ok, thanks
[04:09] <tvo> Riddell: what about the modifications to about:konqueror?
[04:10] <tvo> they'll need to be in konqueror's package
[04:10] <Riddell> kdebase updates are waiting on xmkmf existing again
[04:11] <Riddell> tvo: what modification did you make?  got a screenshot?
[04:12] <tvo> Riddell: not yet, I'm more or less create a plan for what I'm going to change in which functions using which api etc.
[04:12] <tvo> I did not yet actually modify something..
[05:01] <Riddell> kubuntuforums.net  gosh
[06:05] <pef> Riddell: ping
[06:08] <Riddell> pef: hi
[06:08] <Riddell> tvo: any luck getting qt compiled?
[06:09] <pef> Riddell: hi, can you help me with a little packaging problem ?
[06:09] <Riddell> pef: I can try
[06:10] <venda> Riddell: http://lnix.net/~froud//deb/kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.4_all.deb + src in same folder
[06:10] <pef> Riddell: I use cdbs to package a kde apps, and I can't get rid off config.{sub,guess} from my diff.gz (dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa)
[06:10] <pef> i have them in $CURDIR and $CURDIR/admin
[06:12] <Riddell> pef: that's something MOTU have been discussing, I think cdbs should do clever things to save and restore those files though
[06:12] <Riddell> pef: but you can just add rm -f config.sub config.guess to the rules file
[06:13] <pef> Riddell: I've tried this, using clean:: and cleanbuildir:: tragets, but I always have theses files in the .diff file :/
[06:15] <pef> Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/n78SQR78.html am I wrong somewhere ?
[06:15] <Riddell> pef: have you tried it in a straight clean rule?  clean::  not clean/kvpnc::
[06:16] <allee> pef: the clean:: targe deletes the files properly but before the diff is done they are recreated.
[06:16] <pef> allee: that's funny :D
[06:16] <pef> ohh
[06:16] <allee> pef: Hack: remove them for the diff and unpack a fresh source.  At the first build the diff is not poluted :)
[06:17] <pef> i've found the source of the problem
[06:17] <pef> I'm not packaging a fresh apps, but correcting an already packaged one
[06:17] <pef> so in the .orig.tar.gz file theses files exists
[06:17] <allee> there a bug in b.d.o and a patch. (this one is used in KDE 'private' cdbs)
[06:18] <allee> pef: orig.tar?  Hah! unpack, remove garbage and rebuild orig.tar!
[06:18] <pef> allee: must I mention this to readme.debian ?
[06:19] <allee> I would add it to changelog.  but orig.tar is not holy ;)  But it never hurts to add a reminder for yourself to changelog
[06:21] <allee> when I want to check if someone working on a ubuntu deb:  check sid, check wnpp, check breezy, check REVU and then <what else>?
[06:22] <pef> itp ?
[06:22] <pef> check the homepage of the apps for home made packages ?
[06:27] <allee> pef: a home page, silly me. Too obvious.  thx
[06:28] <pef> it's ok for the config.{config,guess} files , thank you guys !
[06:28] <Riddell> pef: how did you fix it?
[06:28] <pef> Riddell: deleted from the orig.tar.gz file, and added an rm -f to clean:: on debian/rules
[06:29] <Riddell> hmm, deleteing those from .orig might not get past dholbach
[06:29] <allee> try a second build and check diff  (me, nervous, was there a fix in the meantime)
[06:31] <pef> configure: error: cannot run /bin/sh /mnt/stockage/dev/kubuntu/kvpnc/kvpnc-0.7.2/./admin/config.sub
[06:31] <pef> eheh
[06:31] <tvo> Riddell: yes, Qt+arts are done, now recompiling kdelibs+kdebase, ETA approx. 22:00 UTC+0200
[06:33] <allee> mv admin/config.guess.cdbs-orig  admin/config.guess in tar file (ditto for .sub)
[06:33] <pef> tomorrow, new packages for universe are still accepted ?
[06:33] <Riddell> pef: yes
[06:36] <pef> allee: I'm not sure to fully understand
[06:40] <allee> oh, oh! Isn't your problem that there are config.*.cdbs-orig and config.* files in diff (or tar) ??
[06:42] <pef> allee: I have config.{guess,sub} files in the .orig.tar.gz file, and I have them in my diff.gz ;)
[06:43] <allee> no *.cdbs-orig?  Argl, then forget what I told you  *shame on me*
[06:43] <allee> pef: sorry
[06:44] <pef> in the diff.gz I have the differences between the config.{guess,sub} files from the orig.tar.gz file and auto-generated files during the compilation
[06:44] <pef> allee: no problem
[06:46] <pef> mm
[06:46] <pef> I don't have them now :?
[06:52] <pef> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=335
[06:53] <allee> pef: pkging kvpnc?  Great!  WISH-TODO--
[06:54] <pef> allee: yep :) I'm just no sure about the Depends: and Suggest: for this package
[07:01] <allee> Have not played with it enough to help you here.  Btw.  s/vpn/VPN/ in description and use ..'VPN (virtual private network)' when first mentioned?  If freeswan is only linux 2.4 and ubuntu has only 2.6?
[07:01] <allee> pef: menu s|/usr/bin||g
[07:05] <pef> allee: FreeSWan is no longer maintained :/
[07:07] <pef> allee: should I leave this and add (unmaintained) or wipe the freeswan part ?
[07:07] <allee> desktop file: mv  instead of dh_install + rm  and rmdir applnk/Internet and applnk dirs
[07:08] <allee> freeswan in in breezy universe so mention (unmaintained) is the better choice.
[07:10] <allee> pef: why do you use debian native layout and not orig.tar + diff?  After all it's at least no kubuntu-native tarball ;)
[07:11] <pef> allee: easier to submit/review using revu ?
[07:13] <allee> really? I like to look at diffs and (interdiffs)
[07:13] <allee> pef: of course do whatever fits 'you' best
[07:14] <pef> :)
[07:31] <pef> allee: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=338 I hope I haven't missed one of your precious advices :)
[07:40] <allee> pef: s/precious advices/nit picking/
[07:41] <pef> that's how a package becomes really good
[07:45] <allee> pef: move unmaintained to freeswan (not linux 2.4 ;), s/vpn/VPN in short description too
[07:46] <allee> pef: changelog: mention why you did it.  What you did is a matter of interdiff, but the why is the thing that get lost easily
[07:47] <pef> allee: why I made all theses changes ?
[07:49] <allee> pef: no all:  but, e.g, why did you replace '|' with , in Suggests,  why you use optional instead of extra
[07:49] <pef> ok, so _every_ change
[07:51] <allee> no, no need to explain, e.g., why you added manpage :)  but maybe related the docbook2x and manpage (manpage don't need docbook2x but the original docbook version needs it)
[07:55] <allee> pef: just thoughts from own experience.  Not necessary applicaple to others
[07:57] <allee> pef did you do a grep --recursive -i copyright?
[07:59] <allee> desktop: No Categories enties, s/Comment/GenericName/
[08:01] <allee> pef: X-KDESubstituteUID?  kdesu is used.  Puzzeled
[08:01] <pef> allee: I'm fixing this (forget during the action)
[08:01] <pef> allee: can I use echo "foo" >> file in debian/rules ?
[08:02] <allee> pef: no, not idempotent.  Either clone+edit the desktop file or create a patch.
[08:03] <pef> ok, it's in my TODO list for tomorow morning :) I really have to go
[08:03] <allee> pef: Thx for your work!
[08:03] <pef> thanks for your help !
[08:04] <pef> bye !
[08:04] <allee> bye pef
[09:35] <jpatrick> I would like to volunteer to help Kubuntu. :)
[09:35] <allee> Riddell: noone working on wlassistant already?   Will it replace (ugly IMHO) kwifimanager?
[09:37] <jpatrick> there a .deb package for wlassistant
[09:38] <allee> The knoppix ones from http://wlassistant.sourceforge.net/? Or are there others?  Do you know how to get hands on deb sources?
[09:38] <allee> jpatrick hi!
[09:38] <jpatrick> It does not work here
[09:38] <jpatrick> allee hi!
[09:39] <jpatrick> it's says wlassistant: command not found
[09:39] <allee> Stan Vasilyev
[09:39] <allee> I've downloaded and extracted changelog and asked to
[09:39] <allee> Stan Vasilyev
[09:41] <allee> jpatrick: isn't it in /usr/bin/?
[09:42] <jpatrick> it is
[10:02] <jpatrick> so where do I start?
[10:03] <allee> what are you interests?  Pkging, doc, bug-fixing, ...?
[10:03] <jpatrick> I know a bit of C++, I think doc will do for now
[10:03] <jpatrick> maybe pkging if I knew how
[10:05] <allee> uniq_: ping? jpatrick in interested in doc
[10:06] <allee> jpatrick: pkging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide, check existing apps, ask on #ubuntu-motu, kde specific stuff here ...
[10:07] <jpatrick> ok
[10:07] <allee> jpatrick: welcome on board
[10:08] <jpatrick> thanks
[10:08] <jpatrick> So - I have thank a program and put it into a deb package?
[10:13] <allee> jpatrick: you need a tar ball tostart or easier an already existing deb pkg that you adapt for ubuntu
[10:14] <jpatrick> ok
[10:15] <jpatrick> I'm looking though the suggested packages
[10:16] <Riddell> (it already has packaging)
[10:18] <jpatrick> what about kConfigure?
[10:19] <Riddell> jpatrick: what's that?
[10:20] <jpatrick> 'Kconfigure simplifies compiling and installing software by providing a graphical interface.'
[10:20] <Riddell> if you find it useful then yes :)
[10:22] <allee> icecream does not interest me enough.  My kde packages are small enough for one cpu and a cup of tee ;)
[10:23] <Riddell> it becomes at lot more useful at akademy conferenes :)
[10:23] <Riddell> unsermake -p -j 50 is fun
[10:24] <allee> he, he!
[10:27] <jpatrick> I like icecream
[10:43] <tvo> Riddell: Qt Gentoo xrandr patch works fine here, now to test the simple patch..
[10:44] <Riddell> tvo: well done :)
[10:45] <Riddell> anyone want to make packages of 3.5 alpha?
[10:47] <jpatrick> I'm considering making one of the suggested icon theme
[10:47] <jpatrick> -s*
[10:48] <jpatrick> start off small :)
[10:49] <Riddell> which one?
[10:50] <jpatrick> Amaranth Altheae
[10:52] <jpatrick> just to start off
[10:53] <tvo> Riddell: did you read my fwd mail from slocate author?
[10:56] <Riddell> tvo: yes, not sure what to make of it
[10:56] <tvo> Riddell: he has pretty good arguments against it
[10:57] <tvo> I understood other people had requested/offered other solution, like a ultra fast update algo which only considers changes and doesn't make a database from scratch each time
[10:58] <tvo> IMO that solution wouldn't solve a thing. It would just reduce time it takes to run updatedb
[10:59] <Riddell> yes, that's what it sounds like
[11:04] <tvo> he has like 2 points:
[11:04] <tvo> 1) it's a daemon, if it's killed db is inconsistent
[11:04] <tvo> 2) need to batch changes for performance reasons
[11:05] <tvo> I had already thought of first part of 1) and 2), just not of db inconsistency
[11:05] <tvo> could be solved by still creating a fresh db every day/week
[11:07] <allee> Riddell: wlassistant is nice.  Unfortunately there are no translations :(  Rosetta? bug upstrean to think about kde-extragear?  Forget it for breezy?
[11:09] <Riddell> allee: many other programmes have minimal translations
[11:10] <Riddell> tvo: for 2) you just make sure you update only max every 60 seconds or so
[11:10] <Riddell> for 1) get a better database :)
[11:11] <tvo> yeah it shouldn't die of course :)
[11:11] <allee> 'k Well, I can (have to) do at least a german trans otherwise my familie kicks me.  I'll see wath the knoppix pkger answer and if there's some spare time othr weekend.
[11:11] <tvo> anyway, algorithmic it's a pretty tough job, certainly if it's to be done in plain C, like slocate
[11:15] <tvo> I think I could do it but I don't think I can guarantee a working product by 1st of september..
[11:16] <Riddell> it also have nothing to do with the origional KubuntuFileSearch :)
[11:16] <Riddell> but if you think there's a good chance of having something working at some point and you'd find it fun then go ahead
[11:17] <Riddell> have you looked at inotify APIs and stuff?
[11:18] <tvo> Riddell: yeah, but just a quick glance. Maybe I should try to get an inotify enabled kernel and play a bit with inotify first
[11:19] <Riddell> that would be the way to start
[11:19] <Riddell> by the way I'm away next week
[11:19] <tvo> it is kinda like the sort of interesting project which I may continue in my spare time when uni starts
[11:20] <tvo> ah ok, good to know, next week starts at monday? :)
[11:22] <Riddell> yes, away from monday
[11:47] <jpatrick> anyone know what the file extension for pascal?
[11:47] <jpatrick> sorry found it: .pp


[00:00] <nigel_nb> doctormo: need a favor
[00:00] <pleia2> cprofitt: yes, and people interested in education
[00:00] <nigel_nb> doctormo: need a template folder in there for new classes.  Preferably as a new folder.  Can you?
[00:01] <nigel_nb> doctormo: just the basic folders and one file of instructions.  If you want me to make it, can do
[00:01] <cprofitt> pleia2: what do you think of having a new forum area added?
[00:02] <pleia2> cprofitt: for educators or this project?
[00:02] <cprofitt> for educators
[00:02] <pleia2> forums aren't really my forte
[00:02] <pleia2> so I'm not sure :)
[00:03] <cprofitt> k
[00:03] <cprofitt> I think it hurts that there is not one.
[00:05] <cprofitt> To me it fits with your feeling on having the Ubuntu Women's forum area
[00:05] <cprofitt> do you know the process to have a new area created pleia2 ?
[00:07] <pleia2> cprofitt: not a clue, and they were cutting back on the number of forums (they actually shut down UW until I objected)
[00:07] <cprofitt> ah... well then it may be tough to get one.
[00:08] <cprofitt> By the way doctormo and pleia2 I want to publicly acknowledge what a great conribution you have both made to UCLP
[00:08] <pleia2> might talk to bodhi though, since he's an admin and all :)
[00:08] <cprofitt> it was fantastic tohave you both go to UDS and represent
[00:08] <pleia2> thanks cprofitt!
[00:08] <cprofitt> and the work on asciidoc has been fantastic
[00:08] <cprofitt> it shames me that my efforts have not been up to that measure.
[00:09] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Aye, we should chat about what you mean, I'm not sure.
[00:09] <doctormo> Thanks cprofitt, very kind of you to say, but I've been focusing a lot of my time on education this year, perhaps next I will be forced to get a real job and won't have as much time.
[00:10] <pleia2> doctormo: oh no, not a real job!
[00:10] <pleia2> :)
[00:10] <doctormo> Although various people are pushing me to go into education propperly.
[00:11] <cprofitt> Real jobs are a good way of staying alive... that is for sure.
[00:11] <cprofitt> doctormo: as in becoming a teacher?
[00:11] <doctormo> cprofitt: Of some description, not sure what level of students, but people have mooted that I might be good at it.
[00:12] <cprofitt> In the US that involves getting a BA - student teaching - then a masters
[00:12] <cprofitt> its a tough road
[00:12] <cprofitt> easier when you are not employed or married though I suspect
[00:12] <doctormo> i am married
[00:12] <cprofitt> I would have taken too big a cut in pay to do it...
[00:13] <cprofitt> well... then it becomes a bit more difficult -- kids?
[00:13] <cprofitt> sorry that I did not know you were married doctormo
[00:13] <doctormo> Although I suspect that traditional (i.e. kids) teaching might not be possible, as I couldn't teach windows.
[00:13] <cprofitt> you have not mentioned that -- at least not that I recall.
[00:13]  * pleia2 gets dragged off again
[00:13] <pleia2> doctormo: will you be around tomorrow morning?
[00:13] <cprofitt> doctormo: there are some schools that use FLOSS
[00:13] <doctormo> cprofitt: Did I not send you a picture of my wife in corsett?
[00:14] <cprofitt> doctormo: you sent me a picture of a lady in a corsett... not sure you specified wife
[00:14] <doctormo> pleia2: morning for US EST, should be.
[00:14] <pleia2> doctormo: ok, cool
[00:14] <cprofitt> what time pleia2 ?
[00:14] <pleia2> cprofitt: I will be around all morning est
[00:14] <cprofitt> -- did you need me on?
[00:14] <pleia2> just wanted to ask some questions about our format and scripts
[00:15] <pleia2> nigel and I went over a bunch this morning, was way helpful
[00:15]  * pleia2 phone &
[00:25] <doctormo> So... pleia2, cprofitt, BiosElement(not here) and nigel_nb: you might want to throttle me, but I want to modify things slightly in the structure. Thinking over about what's been said, I think it might be worth putting each of the sections into a single file, instead of having a directory for each one.
[00:26] <nigel_nb> oh no!
[00:26] <cprofitt> doctormo: sounds like what bioselement and I discussed the other night
[00:26] <doctormo> cprofitt: It could be, but if it's what BiosElement already has written out, then it might not be.
[00:27] <nigel_nb> doctormo: My personal opinion, do what you have to do and make it final soon.
[00:27] <cprofitt> no... I do not think it was what he had written out...
[00:27] <cprofitt> I think it might be best to stick with what we have for now though
[00:27] <doctormo> It depends on what perspective is put on the single file, the idea is to simply take our 4 files in the directory and concat them, leaving you with still a number of modular sections.
[00:28] <cprofitt> we need to stop changing the structure until we have time to truly test it
[00:28] <doctormo> cprofitt: That's true, but in this case it's changing it because of us trying it out.
[00:28] <cprofitt> ah -- what are you trying to compile your current content too?
[00:29] <cprofitt> link to the source asciidoc?
[00:29] <nigel_nb> doctormo: We need a deadline when everything with the format will be done, decided, and finalized.
[00:30] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: we do not need to finalize it...
[00:30] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Well, decided and finalised are further off that we think. That takes a vote I think.
[00:30] <cprofitt> but we need to have a deadline for an Alpha that is functional
[00:30] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: my course is heavily dependent on the structure
[00:30] <cprofitt> then we can use it to make PDF courses and Moodle courses and adjust from there
[00:30] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: when the structure changes, I have to modify the course accordingly
[00:30] <doctormo> But if I said that having all the scripts in place to render docbooks, pdfs, htmls should be in place by morning time. This small change included.
[00:31] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: I agree... your course is about the 'structure' correct?
[00:31] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: its about how to contribute
[00:31]  * cprofitt nods to nigel_nb
[00:31] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: I not only have to change the structure of my course, I have to change my course accordingly too, so it would be nice if we finalized it
[00:31] <nigel_nb> I dont mind these changes too much really
[00:32] <nigel_nb> but I want something finalized so that we can pace up course creation
[00:32] <doctormo> nigel_nb: How long are you online for this evening?
[00:32] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: until we utilize the first Alpha I am not sure we can finalize though
[00:32] <nigel_nb> doctormo: I'm off in an hour
[00:32] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: :(
[00:32] <cprofitt> we have to do at least one course end to end in all formats to see if we need adjustments
[00:33] <cprofitt> while we can all hope none are needed...
[00:33] <cprofitt> we can not truly say 'done' 'final' until we have put it to use
[00:33] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: by done I mean, ready for teaching others
[00:33] <doctormo> I agree
[00:34] <doctormo> nigel_nb: OK, lets make sure this works in the next hour before you go.
[00:34] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: doctormo's new scripts are almost on the mark, if everything works out, I can get my course ready soon
[00:34] <cprofitt> k
[00:34] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: now I just need to give a brush of the format which I'm glad I haven't started since we're tinkering with it now ;)
[00:34] <cprofitt> still need to test the transition to Moodle though
[00:35] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: that needs a dedicated set of people actually.  Because the quiz and stuff is going to be difficult
[00:37] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: well... the project needs to make sure that there is a working process
[00:37] <cprofitt> regardless of who does what parts
[00:37] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: yep :)
[00:38] <cprofitt> all I am leaving the door open too is that if changing the process slightly makes translation to / from Moodle eaier
[00:38] <cprofitt> that will need to be considered
[00:41] <cprofitt> would you agree with that doctormo pleia2 ?
[00:45] <doctormo> cprofitt: I would
[00:46] <cprofitt> cool :-)
[00:47] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Pushed a new banch, take a look at it's changes and tell me frankly what you think.
[00:47] <nigel_nb> doctormo: a new branch or updated trunk?
[00:48] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: nice picture by the way
[00:48] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: hehe, the one on your site?
[00:48] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: that was my testing of cheese ;)
[00:48] <cprofitt> yeah -- that is your; right?
[00:49] <doctormo> nigel_nb: updated trunk
[00:49] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: thats me :)
[00:49] <nigel_nb> doctormo: merging
[00:50] <cprofitt> Cool...
[00:52] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: I am happy to have 12 members to that site in under 24 hours
[00:52] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: we're a helpful crowd :)
[00:53] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: after joining bug squad I forgot how many sites (upstream bug trackers, etc) I've signed up and I get around 100 mails every 3 days...
[00:53] <cprofitt> I think you, John and I are the only people that are not educators
[00:54] <doctormo> cprofitt: I would have joined, but the registration process went and died.
[00:55] <cprofitt> lol
[00:55] <cprofitt> doctormo: are you running Windows?
[00:55]  * cprofitt runs and hides
[00:55] <nigel_nb> doctormo: not bad, need some time learning the new one though
[00:56] <doctormo> cprofitt: Besmitched.
[00:56]  * cprofitt flops on the floor like a trout out of water
[00:57] <doctormo> nigel_nb: It's simply a concatination of each of the asciidoc files with <== between each section, then the build script I'm about to commit, splits it out and puts it back into the directories we currently have.
[00:57] <doctormo> It's simply a way to move the directories to build only processes.
[00:57] <nigel_nb> doctormo: okay, once its ready, let me know so I can get my last section ready :)
[00:58] <doctormo> Sart getting it ready for the test :-)
[01:04] <nigel_nb> im off then guys
[01:04] <nigel_nb> sunday, time to get ready fer church :)
[01:06] <FFEMTcJ> 'night nigel_nb
[01:09] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Pushing rev18 with updated and tested scripts.
[01:15] <FFEMTcJ> my first blod post to planet just went up
[01:16] <doctormo> FFEMTcJ: What's a blod post? :-D
[01:16] <doctormo> Chris Johnston?
[01:17] <FFEMTcJ> yup
[01:17] <FFEMTcJ> blog.. whatever
[01:17] <FFEMTcJ> lol
[01:17] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: what is your wave account?
[01:24] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: I did not get that from you...
[01:24] <cprofitt> I dropped... sorry
[01:24] <cprofitt> want to add you to my wave
[01:25] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: he didnt answer
[01:25] <cprofitt> k
[01:25] <cprofitt> was not sure...
[01:28] <FFEMTcJ> id give you mine, but it wouldnt help :-P
[01:28] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: true...
[01:29] <cprofitt> unless you too join the Ubuntu Educators group... and want to be part of that wave
[01:30] <FFEMTcJ> I was actually gonna ask you about that.. I'm a little confused.. Its a group for teachers/instructors who use ubuntu?
[01:31] <cprofitt> it is a group for educators - teachers / edu administrators / edu support staff
[01:31] <cprofitt> who use Ubuntu and/or FLOSS
[01:31]  * FFEMTcJ doesnt fit any of that...
[01:32] <cprofitt> that was the angle that I originally approached UCLP when Vantrax and I were formulating creating UCLP
[01:32] <FFEMTcJ> ic
[01:33] <cprofitt> though more from the standpoint of creating Moodle courses that educators could use
[01:33] <cprofitt> to aide their transition to Ubuntu and FLOSS
[01:33] <cprofitt> the same courses would likely be usable by business unless they got curriculum specific
[01:34] <FFEMTcJ> gotcha
[01:40] <FFEMTcJ> pleia2: you arent around are you?
[01:40] <Pendulum> cprofitt: I'd actually be interested in that. my mum's a teacher and while where she teaches doesn't use Ubuntu (they're a MacOS school), I think they use moodle
[01:41] <cprofitt> Cool... what the link Pendulum
[01:41] <cprofitt> part of the transition process would likely be staying with OS X or Windows and using FLOSS
[01:41] <cprofitt> I meant do you want the link?
[01:41] <Pendulum> yes, please :)
[01:41] <cprofitt> http://ubuntuedu.ning.com/
[01:42] <cprofitt> let her and her fellow teacher know as well.
[01:42] <FFEMTcJ> Pendulum: we have 10 instructors, 9 hours and then the intro hour
[01:42] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: are we nailing down the schedule?
[01:42] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: id like to
[01:42] <Pendulum> yeah, I don't know that the school would ever switch (it's a prep school and students are actually required to own mac laptops), I know the current tech guy does OSS stuff and such
[01:42] <Pendulum> FFEMTcJ: nice :)
[01:43] <Pendulum> *but I know...
[01:44] <FFEMTcJ> Here is my thought:
[01:44] <FFEMTcJ> Switching * install at 1300
[01:44] <FFEMTcJ> 1400 equiv programs
[01:44] <cprofitt> Pendulum: required to own a mac?
[01:44] <cprofitt> ouch...
[01:45] <FFEMTcJ> 1500 finding help
[01:45] <FFEMTcJ> 1600 command line basics
[01:45] <FFEMTcJ> 1700 restricted drivers
[01:46] <FFEMTcJ> there is still a pgp course.. but other than that people didnt put what they wanna teach
[01:46] <cprofitt> what is the URL to our page again
[01:46] <cprofitt> for the Ubuntu day stuff...
[01:47] <FFEMTcJ> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam
[01:47] <cprofitt> danke
[01:47] <cprofitt> I see we added some later times
[01:47] <Pendulum> cprofitt: http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/story.php?itemID=11690 is the school
[01:48] <cprofitt> if that is possible I would be happy to move my section later if it was better.
[01:48] <cprofitt> I am GMT-5
[01:48] <cprofitt> and can do anything up until 04:00 UTC
[01:48] <FFEMTcJ> we stop at 2200 utc
[01:49] <Pendulum> One sec, I'm going to edit the wiki so all the times are UTC so I can look at it and actually parse it better ;)
[01:49] <cprofitt> k
[01:49] <cprofitt> someone added time up until 03:00 UTC
[01:49] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: I was thinking to do the courses if possible in an order that makes sense.. so install would be first.. and then eqiv programs, would be shortly there after
[01:49] <cprofitt> curious as to why we would end at 22:00UTC
[01:50] <FFEMTcJ> thats 10 hours
[01:50] <FFEMTcJ> 12-22
[01:50] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: yeah... only issue is at GMT-5 I can not really do things that early
[01:51] <cprofitt> yes, but 10 hours across a globe spanning 24 hours
[01:51] <FFEMTcJ> I understand that..
[01:51] <cprofitt> 22:00 UTC = 17:00 UTC-5 (EDT) or 13:00 UTC-8... etc
[01:51] <FFEMTcJ> right
[01:51] <cprofitt> so if you have instructors willing to go later -- why not?
[01:52] <cprofitt> 12:00 UTC would be very early for a person in California.
[01:52] <FFEMTcJ> right
[01:53] <Pendulum> btw, do we know who is doing the intro?
[01:53] <Pendulum> or is it going to be a collective thing from those of us organizing?
[01:53] <FFEMTcJ> Pendulum: I'm thinking collective
[01:53] <FFEMTcJ> pleia2: said she had some material for it.. but i was kindof thinkging collective
[01:55] <cprofitt> Pendulum: If Apple was a better 'corporate partner' with schools I may not choke on the idea of paying 2x the cost of their laptops
[01:55] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: going by tat thought tho (that 12utc is early for CA, then the course at 12 should be repeated at 22
[01:55] <Pendulum> FFEMTcJ: I see one problem with doing command line basics when you have it scheduled, which is that cprofitt signed up for that one and he's not available until later ;)
[01:55] <Pendulum> err.. not CL basics, equivalent programbs
[01:55] <Pendulum> *programs
[01:56] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: if we had enough instructors and could have multiple IRC rooms that would be a grand idea
[01:56] <FFEMTcJ> ya.. we are talking about that
[01:56] <FFEMTcJ> Pendulum: ^
[01:56] <Pendulum> I suspect some of the bits of getting extra instructors, etc. may be a "when we do this again" thing
[01:56] <cprofitt> its one of the things that plague a synchronous presentation of material on a global scale
[01:57] <cprofitt> Pendulum: +1
[01:57] <cprofitt> we have to build..
[01:57] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: thats what logs are for
[01:57] <cprofitt> the global time issue is what I like Moodle for... it allows Asynchronous courses
[01:57] <FFEMTcJ> UOW/UDS isnt 24 hours..
[01:57] <FFEMTcJ> right
[01:57] <Pendulum> oh, I think it'd be great if eventually it worked so we could do essentially a 24hr thing at some point
[01:57] <cprofitt> how many people attending UDS do so remotely?
[01:58] <Pendulum> cprofitt: both FFEMTcJ and I did :)
[01:58] <cprofitt> I did too...
[01:58] <FFEMTcJ> I would say a fair amount.. I dont know a number tho
[01:58] <FFEMTcJ> but all the chans seemed quite active
[01:58] <Pendulum> because I think a flaw in UOW is that it only works for certain time zones
[01:58] <cprofitt> and I would say remote attendance of live events are a bit different than all on-line events.
[01:58] <cprofitt> Pendulum: yep
[01:58] <Pendulum> and new users are less likely to go want to read logs
[01:59] <cprofitt> still having global time issues as an issue is a good thing
[01:59] <FFEMTcJ> Pendulum: the IMHO, UOW, there arent enough instructors to make it work for everywhere
[01:59] <cprofitt> UOW = ?
[01:59] <Pendulum> Ubuntu Open Week
[01:59] <cprofitt> ah...
[01:59] <cprofitt> they did extend UOW the time I did it...
[01:59] <cprofitt> but only by an hour I think
[02:00] <cprofitt> it would be great to have audio and screen casts (recorded) for some of the stuff...
[02:00] <cprofitt> new users could benefit a bit more from those than IRC logs...
[02:01] <cprofitt> due to that format keeping their interest a bit better... and providing some visuals.
[02:01] <Pendulum> yeah
[02:01] <cprofitt> but IRC logs are still useful.
[02:01] <FFEMTcJ> sounds like a beginner team project
[02:01] <Pendulum> *nods*
[02:01] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: very well could be.
[02:01] <cprofitt> though I am on the Security Team now... not EDU Focus group
[02:02]  * FFEMTcJ doesnt know how to do screencasts/etc
[02:02] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: my wave id is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:02] <FFEMTcJ> you can join two FGs
[02:02] <cprofitt> saj0577 is the man to contact for that.
[02:02] <FFEMTcJ> ;-)
[02:02] <FFEMTcJ> I think saj is gonna get kicked from his spot
[02:02] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: sorry I replied late, I was getting ready
[02:02] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: kicked?
[02:02] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: no problem
[02:02] <FFEMTcJ> removed..
[02:03] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: I have not seen him on, so he may be removed... or may step down.
[02:03] <FFEMTcJ> Sounds from what ive heard (looks from what ive seen?) like he is mia
[02:03] <cprofitt> I am sure bodhi will make the right call.
[02:03] <FFEMTcJ> I guess kicked was harsh
[02:03] <cprofitt> I should probably talk to bodhi about it...
[02:03] <cprofitt> we need someone in that slot.
[02:03] <FFEMTcJ> I need to speak to bodhi
[02:03] <nigel_nb> guys (and gals), later, probably 2morrow
[02:03] <FFEMTcJ> night nigel_nb
[02:04] <cprofitt> I stepped down and handed it to Vantrax -- who hnaded it to saj
[02:04] <cprofitt> nigh nigel_nb
[02:04] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: I wish I had the time to commit to something like that, however I know I don't for the next year
[02:04] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: I understand...
[02:04] <cprofitt> it is not an easy thing to make time for...
[02:04] <FFEMTcJ> I wont be able to participate as much as I do now.
[02:04] <cprofitt> I gave up computer gaming to do all the FOSS stuff I do
[02:05] <FFEMTcJ> I talked to one of my co-workers who is just completing the program I start in january.. he said it was the hardest year of his life
[02:05] <cprofitt> I am the lead contact for Lugor, President of the NY State LoCo, BT Council Member, BT Security FG lead, Fedora Ambassador...
[02:05] <Pendulum> FFEMTcJ: going for EMT-P?
[02:05] <cprofitt> I actually give several presentations a year too.
[02:05] <FFEMTcJ> already p
[02:05] <FFEMTcJ> RN
[02:05] <Pendulum> ah
[02:05] <Pendulum> ooh... fun :)
[02:05] <cprofitt> RN... nice FFEMTcJ
[02:05] <FFEMTcJ> Its a 1 year RN program tho.. vs the normal 2
[02:06] <cprofitt> Good luck with that.
[02:06] <FFEMTcJ> I wish the wife would let me get a new laptop thats smaller
[02:06] <Pendulum> yeah, I've heard of those programs (not known anyone whose done one), I can see how it'd kick you hard
[02:06] <FFEMTcJ> ty cprofitt
[02:06] <Pendulum> good luck :)
[02:06] <cprofitt> FFEMTcJ: they are not too expensive...
[02:06] <cprofitt> what size lappy do you have now?
[02:07] <FFEMTcJ> Pendulum: with my schedule of working every third day, and the RN schedule of clinicals tuesdays, labs thursdays, tests every other friday.. clinicals start an hour before i get off work, labs start 30 minutes after i get off work..
[02:07] <FFEMTcJ> I have a lot of schedule issues
[02:07] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: 17 wide
[02:07] <FFEMTcJ> i love it, but it isnt portable
[02:08] <Pendulum> FFEMTcJ: oof.
[02:08] <FFEMTcJ> enought
[02:08] <cprofitt> no, not at all...
[02:08] <cprofitt> would she let you get a Netbook for portability and keep the 17 for regular use?
[02:08] <cprofitt> use Ubuntu One to synch files?
[02:08] <FFEMTcJ> basically... im gonna have to pay people to work for me to make school work..
[02:09] <FFEMTcJ> cprofitt: no.. I'm gonna take prolly a 10k $$ hit next year atleast, just in lost wages.. plus having to pay people to cover my shifts
[02:09] <cprofitt> ouch... that hurts
[02:09] <FFEMTcJ> plus shes having a 7k surgery in jan
[02:09] <cprofitt> that would kill me
[02:09] <FFEMTcJ> the day school starts
[02:09] <cprofitt> I do not have any space for that kind of expense in my budget
[02:09] <FFEMTcJ> I dont either
[02:10] <FFEMTcJ> the first semester of school is 1200 for tuition, 800 for books
[02:10] <FFEMTcJ> so 2k right there
[02:10] <FFEMTcJ> we just have no breathing room
[02:10] <FFEMTcJ> right now
[02:10] <cprofitt> I can understand...
[02:10] <cprofitt> I have a +/- $20 a month budget right now
[02:11] <cprofitt> we are re-financing the house to get some more breathing room
[02:11] <FFEMTcJ> 1 day of overtime for me is $610.. I wish I could talk her into letting me work one day, and spending that $ on a computer.. but shed just say we need that money somewhere elese
[02:12] <FFEMTcJ> my house is already 5.75. it aint gonna get better enough to make it worth it for me
[02:12] <cprofitt> the rates today near me were 4.88 on 30yr and 4.60 on 20yr
[02:12] <cprofitt> I am locked in at 5.0 though
[02:12] <cprofitt> I was at 6.75
[02:13] <FFEMTcJ> she just started a gig in the evenings thats $75/hr for her.. but its not steady enough to count on
[02:13] <FFEMTcJ> thats still pretty good
[02:13] <cprofitt> yeah... a 1.75 drop will help... $150/month
[02:13] <FFEMTcJ> yup
[02:15] <cprofitt> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/apple-tablet/
[02:15] <FFEMTcJ> uggh,, I wish someone would put the new thunderbird on a ppa
[02:15] <cprofitt> think that is a photoshop or real?
[02:15] <FFEMTcJ> i hope photoshop
[02:17] <FFEMTcJ> bbiab.. need to call wife and tell her g'nite
[02:18] <cprofitt> k
[02:21] <Pendulum> whatever it is, it's not looking to me like something apple would put out (whether that
[02:21] <Pendulum> *that's that it's real and unfinished or a photoshop job)
[02:22] <cprofitt> yeah...
[02:22] <cprofitt> I would think they would include a keyboard...
[02:22] <cprofitt> though maybe not
[02:22] <Pendulum> possibly a keyboard, certainly not that many icons on a screen (too confusing), etc.
[02:22] <FFEMTcJ> away
[02:22] <FFEMTcJ> back
[02:22] <cprofitt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
[02:22] <cprofitt> that is a very good video to show Apple fans
[02:23] <FFEMTcJ> anyone know how to get me out of an ATT cell contract?
[02:23] <Pendulum> heh
[02:23] <Pendulum> most apple fans I know have seen it :)
[02:24] <cprofitt> yeah...
[02:24] <cprofitt> you guys seen the Supervillian cartoon?
[02:24] <cprofitt> http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54
[02:35] <cprofitt> to be honest... I used Vista print to make some generic cards for my being a FOSS advocate
[02:37] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090604?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=IMG_0347.JPG
[02:37] <cprofitt> that was a good event though...
[02:37] <cprofitt> we have been invited back and asked to do at least two additional presentations.
[02:48] <FFEMTcJ> whois
[02:48] <FFEMTcJ> uggh
[02:48] <FFEMTcJ> g'nite all
[02:50] <Pendulum> g'night FFEMTcJ
[10:19] <eskimo> hi
[15:24] <doctormo> pleia2: hello
[15:25] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Also if your about
[15:33] <FFEMTcJ> hey doc
[15:34] <doctormo> Hey FFEMTcJ
[15:35] <FFEMTcJ> how goes?
[15:38] <doctormo> well, happy I got all the builder scrpts fixed
[15:40] <FFEMTcJ> cool
[16:25] <nigel_nb> doctormo: great to know :)
[16:26] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Great, let me know that your book compiles correctly and I'll start on importing the ubuntu docs team's rendering scripts.
[16:26] <pleia2> hey
[16:26] <nigel_nb> doctormo: no time to check rite nw :(
[16:27] <nigel_nb> oh, hey pleia2
[16:33] <nigel_nb> doctormo: u'll be around at 2 am ur time?
[16:33] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Are you sure of my time? I'm at GMT currently.
[16:33] <nigel_nb> i'm sure
[16:33] <doctormo> pleia2: I needed to pass changes by you
[16:34] <pleia2> ok
[16:34] <nigel_nb> pleia2: now its individual files instead of folders
[16:34] <nigel_nb> each section is one file
[16:34] <pleia2> hooray for less cding
[16:35] <nigel_nb> yea, less messy
[16:35] <pleia2> which branch should I look at to see how this looks?
[16:37] <pleia2> ah, commandline-basics has it
[16:39] <doctormo> pleia2: Yes, so basically what I did was, I moved the mess into the scripts so the script splits it out into seperate files for building.
[16:40] <doctormo> pleia2: But writers shouldn't see them.
[16:41] <pleia2> okie
[16:42] <cprofitt> pleia2: this is what bioselement and I discussed a few days back -- it makes much more sense to me with the limited knowledge I have of asciidoc
[16:42] <pleia2> so, can we walk through a workflow for this?
[16:42]  * pleia2 nods
[16:42] <pleia2> so, I have a course I want to write, first I set up bzr and stuff
[16:42] <pleia2> I think if a course name, know the proper section
[16:42] <pleia2> then I run the template structure script thingy somewhere?
[16:44] <nigel_nb> yea, sorta
[16:44] <doctormo> pleia2: So you write each of these files out, then you run ./builder/build.sh [section-name] [class-name]
[16:44] <pleia2> each of what files?
[16:45] <nigel_nb> 01, 02,
[16:45] <pleia2> hmm
[16:46] <nigel_nb> pleia2: will be up around at 8 to 9 PM (your time)?
[16:46] <nigel_nb> I'll test it with my class then
[16:46] <pleia2> probably
[16:47] <nigel_nb> okay :)
[16:47] <nigel_nb> then you guys need to vote on this and I can finish my lesson off
[16:47] <pleia2> I am afraid I still don't understand though
[16:48]  * pleia2 reads build.sh
[16:48] <cprofitt> doctormo: if someone wants to pull 'sections' from course A, B, and C to make a new course... how will that work in your current system?
[16:48] <nigel_nb> pleia2: try
[16:48] <nigel_nb> pleia2: try running build on command line basics
[16:49] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: probably, copy it into a new folder and run the build scripts
[16:49] <pleia2> I am trying to figure out how we get the templates in place, not building yet
[16:49] <doctormo> cprofitt: It's a matter of recombining them, make some symbolic links and rebuild.
[16:49] <doctormo> pleia2: The script's templates or the human's templates?
[16:50] <pleia2> doctormo: human
[16:50] <pleia2> whatever makes the presentations directory, and the basic structure that we then edit
[16:50] <nigel_nb> doctormo: I think pleia2 is asking the same thing I asked you in the morning
[16:50] <nigel_nb> an empty template for others to build upon
[16:51] <pleia2> nothing about building yet :) I am talking about starting from the beginning, before we've written anything
[16:51] <nigel_nb> "build" as in start writing a new course
[16:51] <doctormo> pleia2: That's stage 2, getting things building and rendering was stage 1,
[16:52] <doctormo> Since nigel_nb could always make a course manually and pull out problems with the structure
[16:52] <pleia2> sorry, I thought build was generate the html file
[16:52] <doctormo> pleia2: build is generating the docbooks, the html is really only for testing.
[16:52] <pleia2> you're confusing me :(
[16:53] <doctormo> since translations will come in from docbook to html+pdf in the render stage.
[16:53] <pleia2> I have absolutely no content, I'm starting at the beginning, empty directory
[16:53] <pleia2> there is nothing to build, I haven't even written anything, I need a template
[16:54] <nigel_nb> a folder with the basic files
[16:54] <pleia2> that's what I need
[16:54] <pleia2> do we have a script to put these basic files in place? or do I have to copy them from somewhere?
[16:54] <doctormo> pleia2: Not written yet, please stand by.
[16:55] <pleia2> ok, that's all I was asking :)
[16:55] <nigel_nb> pleia2 & doctormo: you guys get things ready, I'm leavin fer work soon (i'm already late by 30 minutes), I'll catch you guys in 8 to 8.5 hours :)
[16:55] <pleia2> nigel_nb: ok, see you later :)
[22:20] <nigel_nb> pleia2: did u and doctormo get things done about empty template while I was away?
[22:25] <pleia2> that's doctormo's script, not sure
[22:27] <nigel_nb> hmm
[22:27] <nigel_nb> did u get time to review my new rev?
[22:30] <nigel_nb> um, pleia2 ?
[22:30] <nigel_nb> _marx_: hows the screencasts going?
[22:32] <popey> still cant download those files from rapidswitch nigel_nb :(
[22:32] <nigel_nb> popey: something must be wrong with that dumb host
[22:32] <nigel_nb> I'll get it to a new host today and give you the link
[22:32] <popey> "There are no more download slots available for free users right now. If you don't want to become a premium member, you might want to try again later."
[22:33] <nigel_nb> oh great :(
[22:33] <pleia2> nigel_nb: the 3 sections look good :) were you going to move it over to the new format so they are individual text files?
[22:33] <nigel_nb> popey: I'm at work right now, I'll be hom in around 2 and a half hours
[22:33] <nigel_nb> pleia2: you want me to?
[22:34] <nigel_nb> pleia2: right now, it converts well to pdf and html without issues
[22:34] <pleia2> nigel_nb: not my call, I guess we can wait until we're absolutely, totally, positively sure that's the way we're going :)
[22:34] <nigel_nb> pleia2: thats why I was hoping you and martin would make a decision today
[22:35] <pleia2> I didn't realize we were supposed to be deciding :)
[22:35] <_marx_> nigel_nb: better did 3 more takes today, blogging on our first UbuntuHour now and recovery from grandkids being in the house
[22:35] <popey> woot, finally getting them nigel_nb :)
[22:35] <nigel_nb> _marx_: oh great :)
[22:35]  * popey has been stabbing refresh :)
[22:35] <nigel_nb> popey: got them? poor F5 :P
[22:36] <nigel_nb> pleia2: I need to write about the format :(
[22:36] <nigel_nb> without a proper decision is there a point in writing?
[22:38] <pleia2> nigel_nb: sorry, I don't know what to tell you
[22:38] <nigel_nb> pleia2: I dont know what to do either, I'm totally stuck
[22:38] <pleia2> if doctormo is around now we can talk about it, I didn't realize we were supposed to get this all done in 8 hours
[22:38] <pleia2> (I don't think he realized you were expecting it either)
[22:38] <nigel_nb> I want to move ahead but unless we get a fix on this, the course would be redundant
[22:39] <doctormo> hello
[22:39] <nigel_nb> thats also probable, I moved from bazaar introduction to introduction to contributing
[22:39] <nigel_nb> oh hey, doctormo is here
[22:41] <nigel_nb> pleia2: I'm not putting you on spot (I was only hoping you guys would get it done)
[22:41] <doctormo> nigel_nb: OK, I will make the call, you can blame me if something goes wrong. But you should convert to and write about the format that we have right now, since a) we have builder scripts all working and b) render scripts are very close and c) init scripts are not far behind.
[22:42] <doctormo> nigel_nb: I take it your using a previous version of my scripts that generate from the seperate directories?
[22:42]  * nigel_nb hugs doctormo
[22:42] <nigel_nb> doctormo: yep, the separate directories
[22:42] <nigel_nb> doctormo: will take around 10 minutes to convert to new one, no issues
[22:43] <nigel_nb> doctormo: (as soon as I get home, another 2 hours to go)
[22:43] <pleia2> thanks guys :)
[22:43] <nigel_nb> okay, so we're getting this one fixed
[22:43]  * nigel_nb is jumping with joy (finally)
[22:43] <doctormo> nigel_nb: You should be able to convert it with some bash: `echo "<[22:44] <doctormo> pleia2: confirb that bash ooks sane right
[22:45]  * doctormo clears his throat/keyboard
[22:45] <doctormo> ahem
[22:45] <pleia2> hehe
[22:45] <pleia2> is ok, I can read typo!
[22:45] <doctormo> pleia2: Confirm for me that this bash line looks sane please.
[22:45] <pleia2> and yeah, that should be fine
[22:46] <nigel_nb> I cant wait to get home, but thanks to getting here 1 hour late, I've gotta stay till 6:15 am :(
[22:48] <nigel_nb> doctormo: if u and pleia2 are around then, you can check out the results :)
[22:48] <doctormo> nigel_nb: *hug* you'll get through it and then you can save yourself 10 ehole mins of work with my bash fu
[22:49] <doctormo> nigel_nb: I'll make sure I'm here, 1am right.
[22:49] <nigel_nb> doctormo: yep 1 am-ish,
[22:49] <nigel_nb> should be able to get there by then (some daredevil driving reqd)
[22:51] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Be as safe as you can be on the road, your no good to anyone wrapped around a cow.
[22:51] <_marx_> ditto
[22:51] <nigel_nb> haha, no cows and no traffic either
[22:51] <nigel_nb> at 6 a.m. on a monday I'm among the few vehicles on the road
[22:51] <doctormo> nigel_nb: These are vampire cows ;-D
[22:52] <nigel_nb> and I wear full gear anyway, helmet, jacket, gloves, shoes
[22:53] <doctormo> nigel_nb: And garlic?
[22:54] <nigel_nb> doctormo: hahaha
[22:54]  * _marx_ knows not jokes: silver bullets too?
[22:55] <pleia2> no no, silver bullets are for werewolves
[22:55] <_marx_> ohh
[22:55] <nigel_nb> pleia2: u haven't seen blade I guess
[22:55] <pleia2> blade was silly
[22:55] <nigel_nb> pleia2: dont tell me you belong to the twlight scheme of things
[22:55] <nigel_nb> in that case, I might fall in love with the cow :P
[22:55] <pleia2> nigel_nb: no, vampires don't sparkle either :)
[22:56] <nigel_nb> and give her a ride too, hehe
[22:56] <pleia2> I'm more of a buffy/forever knight/dracula vampire lore follower ;)
[22:57] <nigel_nb> pleia2: more mature, and more traditional
[22:58] <nigel_nb> ok, break time over, need to get back to work, catch you guys in 1 hour
[22:58] <nigel_nb> sorry,
[22:58] <nigel_nb> 2 hours
[22:58] <pleia2> later nigel :)
[22:58] <_marx_> new moon here
[22:59] <doctormo> pleia2: Into your josh sweden? I liked Firefly.
[23:00] <pleia2> doctormo: yeah, firefly was great :)
[23:00] <pleia2> I didn't watch buffy until just recently actually, after liking firefly so much I was talked into it
[23:00] <pleia2> "but buffy is just about teenages killing vampires, that's silly!"
[23:00] <pleia2> nah, it's good stuff :)
[23:00] <doctormo> I was so bummed that they cancled it, I don't know if I should be more angry at fox for being despicable political bastards or because they cancled firefly.
[23:01] <pleia2> hehe
[23:01] <pleia2> cancelled dollhouse too *sad*
[23:01] <doctormo> Buffy was good, my wife sat me down and made me watch all of the seasons.
[23:01] <pleia2> similar for me, it was a boyfriend who was like "no, you must watch these"
[23:12] <doctormo> My wife has a cultural re-emersion sessions, where I have to watch all this stuff, because I grew up under a rock.
[23:13] <pleia2> hehe
[23:25] <Pendulum> doctormo: my friends do that for me