[00:10] <hggdh> OK, folks, sorry for the delay
[00:11] <hggdh> I will answer questions you may have about bugs -- mostly bug triaging, so please do ask them
[00:11] <hggdh> BTW, thanks go to pleia2 for tracking me down ;-)
[00:13] <hggdh> er.
[00:14] <hggdh> I do really welcome questions, so please *do* ask them.
[00:14] <hggdh> the channel is open -- I asked the mods to open it so that you all would be able to ask them questions
[00:16] <pleia2> hggdh: if I had some free time and wanted to get involved, where would I start?
[00:17] <hggdh> the best would be to join us on #ubuntu-bugs. It is very easy to help, and we do not require much:
[00:17] <hggdh> (1) interest in helping
[00:17] <hggdh> (2) interest in *learning* -- you do not need to know all about a programme/package to help, you can learn on the fly
[00:18] <hggdh> (3) very important is respect -- treat the people that open the bugs nicely. This does wonders to help *us*
[00:19] <hggdh> finally, reading http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs will allow you to find the way
[00:20] <hggdh> some people worry about how much time they will spend on triaging. There is *no* requirement. If one in every 1,000 Ubuntu users look at ONE bug
[00:20] <hggdh> per day... we will be sooo happy...
[00:29] <Pendulum> hggdh: just want to let you know that you are not forgotten, I'm just reading your link before I figure out if I have any questions :)
[00:29]  * hggdh waits...
[00:30] <hggdh> no hurry, no hurry ;-)
[00:34] <Pendulum> okay, I have a question!
[00:35] <Pendulum> I'm looking at the How to Triage page
[00:35] <hggdh> and?
[00:35] <Pendulum> and it's talking about starting with simple untriaged bugs. is that something that's going to be readily apparent (which are relatively simple bugs to start with) or more something that will require a bit more mentoring from someone on the bug squad?
[00:36] <hggdh> it is usually better for one to start by, er, browsing the NEW/INCOMPLETE bugs, looking for something understandable
[00:37] <hggdh> which is to say, something that the new triager can follow. Usually this is on a programme that is used by the triager
[00:38] <hggdh> there is no requirement -- in fact, I would rather suggest *not* to do -- to get the first bug and try to find out what it is about
[00:39] <hggdh> so: browse. Find something you can understand, or follow. Go from there -- and always, *ALWAYS* remember we are at #ubuntu-bugs to help you
[00:39] <hggdh> we don't bite. We don't yell. We *do* help :-)
[00:40] <pleia2> from the perspective of a package maintainer, would it be appropriate to ask the bugs team to help out on some bugs?
[00:40] <hggdh> yes, it would. This is usually done via the Bug Days, when a specific package is looked at.
[00:41] <pleia2> great :)
[00:41] <hggdh> Although I do not know how it went, just today a maintainer asked for a Bug Day for gnome-power-manager, for example
[00:41] <hggdh> of course, every day is a bug day for us...
[00:42] <pleia2> so is it typically maintainers who propose a day for their package?
[00:42] <hggdh> I would say half the times. We also propose them ourselves, based on some simple metrics
[00:43] <pleia2> so something like "wow, this important package has tons of bugs, let's work on it!"
[00:43] <hggdh> like "it looks like we need to pay attention on package X"
[00:43]  * pleia2 nods
[00:43] <hggdh> yes. Maybe because one of us also uses this package, and there are bugs bothering... (we are humans, after all)
[00:43] <pleia2> :)
[00:46] <hggdh> by the way, sometimes we are asked something like "I know C (or Haskell, or whatever). How can I help triage bugs?"
[00:46] <hggdh> well.
[00:47] <hggdh> *before* I can code a fix, I first have to understand what *is* the problem.
[00:48] <hggdh> It does not necessarily follow that all bugs are code issues, nor that all bugs need a developer-type person to fix it
[00:48] <hggdh> and this is perhaps very important: we have to be able to differentiate between cause and consequence
[00:49] <hggdh> for example, (a bit technical) a SEGV is usually a *consequence* of a bad memory usage
[00:50] <hggdh> for one to fix it, one has to find the real cause (following the -- bad -- example, where the memory was incorrectly overlaied/freed/whatever)
[00:50] <hggdh> in triaging, we are trying to identify the *causes*
[00:51] <hggdh> so we have to parse the reporter's language, looking for the real issue
[00:53] <hggdh> also -- sometimes we get a bug in a different language. The official language for bugs is English, BTW.
[00:53] <FreeFall_> Is there som kind of list when these Bug Days are?
[00:55] <hggdh> Bug Days usually happen every Thursday, and are announced on a series on mailing lists. Usually we do not project more than 2 weeks in the future
[00:55] <hggdh> and Thursday, I mean *your* Thurday, from 00:01 to 23:59. Anywhere is the world.
[00:56] <Pendulum> < Acar> Question: what will we need to report a bug?
[00:57] <hggdh> try to clearly explain your issue; always mention the Ubuntu version; if it is in a programme, you usually can click on Help/Report a Bug
[00:57] <hggdh> and -- please -- wait.
[00:58] <hggdh> We are few, doing triage, and there are a lot of bugs to be looked at.
[00:58] <hggdh> Or, better, come in and help us with the backlog ;-)
[00:59] <hggdh> there is an important difference between bugs and support
[00:59] <hggdh> we accept package/programme bugs -- i.e., the documentation is wrong, the results are wrong, it suddenly crashes
[01:00] <hggdh> we do not accept support requests -- e.g. "how do I connect to my internet provider"?
[01:02] <pleia2> thanks hggdh!
[01:02] <hggdh> welcome
[01:03] <Pendulum> thank you hggdh!
[05:26] <prakash_irc> hi there.. i just read that there was some session about python on this channel couple of days back..
[05:26] <prakash_irc> As i missed it, i would like to know if i can get any notes or video or audio of that session.
[05:26] <prakash_irc> Anybody knows about any site where i can find it?
[05:45] <lvfadeaway_> Im ready to learn! Somebody teach me something
[05:48] <ddecator> lvfadeaway_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom#Schedule
[06:01] <lvfadeaway_> i saw that schedule but that all looks pretty advanced. Where is the beginner course?
[06:01] <kermiac> lvfadeaway_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpportunisticDeveloperWeek/IntroToPythonForTotalBeginners
[06:03] <kermiac> lvfadeaway_: also http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[06:19] <enli1> The google calender schedule timing at http://is.gd/8rtIi is my local time or GMT?
[06:20] <enli1> nvm its UTC
[16:54] <enthdegree>
[16:56] <shadeslayer> manuelciosici: yes!
[16:56] <shadeslayer> :P
[17:01]  * shadeslayer gets notes in order
[17:01] <shadeslayer> apparently rowingolfer couldnt make it
[17:01] <shadeslayer> * Hi there , first of all thank you for attending this session and welcome to #ubuntu-classroom,lets see how many people we have here.Raise your hands and say hi! in #ubuntu-classroom-chat :D
[17:02] <shadeslayer> Ah nice we have a good turn out!
[17:03] <shadeslayer> * Ok,first a bit of intro about my self, Im Rohan Garg aka shadeslayer on the irc,im a 19 years old and live in Gurgaon,India.You can find out all about me at : www.identi.ca/shadeslayer and www.launchpad.net/~rohangarg
[17:05] <shadeslayer> ok before we begin i want all of you to register on launchpad and start making PGP keys
[17:05] <shadeslayer> !pgp
[17:07] <shadeslayer> ok heres the link : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey
[17:07] <shadeslayer> please follow the instructions there,upload your PGP keys to the ubuntu key server and sign the Ubuntu Code of conduct
[17:09] <shadeslayer> If you have any problems please say so in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:09] <shadeslayer> Ok here we go!
[17:10] <shadeslayer> * So what are PPA's basically?
[17:10] <shadeslayer> * PPA's are Personal Package Archives,which means you can upload all sorts of apps and launchpad builds the binaries for you!
[17:11] <shadeslayer> * You can accomplish that via pbuilder too ( more on that at the end of the class ),but LP ( launchpad ) goes a step further and gives you your own repository ( repo ),limited to 1GB,to publish your own packages!
[17:12] <shadeslayer> I really hope you guys have started on GPG keys ;)
[17:13] <shadeslayer> !binary | abhi_nav
[17:14] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: Apps are written in C++,Java ,etc, we need to convert them to binaries to run them as Computers just understand 0's and 1's
[17:15] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: The code is basically characters which have to be converted to 0's and 1's
[17:15] <ClassBot> abhi_nav asked: what is the difference between apps and binaries? what the binary is actually?
[17:15] <shadeslayer> ok thats done :)
[17:16] <ClassBot> abhi_nav asked: one which is published on lp is my public key. but where is my private kay? how to find it?
[17:16] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: you can list your keys with :  gpg --list-secret-keys
[17:17] <shadeslayer> * I think thats pretty amazing,dont you?
[17:18] <shadeslayer> * So just highlighting some of the amazing repos we have on LP are :
[17:18] <shadeslayer>     * Mozilla's Daily PPA : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa
[17:18] <shadeslayer>     * Chromium Daily PPA : https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
[17:18] <shadeslayer>     * Kubuntu Backports PPA : https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports
[17:18] <shadeslayer>     * Kubuntu Beta Backports PPA : https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/beta
[17:19] <ClassBot> abhi_nav asked: does this same as that of convertin a c program to hex when writing to ic?
[17:19] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: yes!
[17:19] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: its basicall Machine code..
[17:19] <shadeslayer> *basically
[17:20] <ClassBot> ben72 asked: what are ppa:s usually used for? bugfixes I've seen but what else? are the Ubuntu maintainers of every package using their own personal ppa:s for the packets they maintain?
[17:21] <shadeslayer> ben72: anything and everything,they can hold packages of the latest KDE versions,apps that are frequently used by the community,apps you have helped developed and want to provide to the ubuntu community
[17:22] <shadeslayer> * All of us use these repos on a day to day basis and over this session ill be teaching you how to use PPA's to provide users with more up to date packages
[17:23] <shadeslayer> * What i will NOT be covering are libraries and new packages,those are much more complex and have to be taken up at a later stage.
[17:23] <shadeslayer> As i have learnt over the past few weeks... very painfully :P
[17:23] <ClassBot> enthdegree asked: Can't PPAs be used for the spread of malicios packages?
[17:24] <shadeslayer> enthdegree: of course! As you will learn,your PPA page contains a explicit warning about this issue
[17:24] <shadeslayer> * So lets get started with the actual building of a package!
[17:25] <shadeslayer> * Oh and if you have a question just shout QUESTION : <Type your question here> : in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ;)
[17:25] <shadeslayer> * So first of all to upload to a PPA you need a LP account,make one quickly at : https://launchpad.net/+login
[17:26] <shadeslayer> Ill wait for a few mins before continuing :)
[17:28] <shadeslayer> ok cool
[17:28] <shadeslayer> * So after you do that you need to sign the ubuntu COC,which is needed to enable PPA's,in order to sign the COC you need to have a gpg key,you can read about making a gpg key here : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto : now upload your keys to the ubuntu key server : gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com <KEY-ID> : and download the coc and sign it and then upload it back ;)
[17:29] <shadeslayer> The signing part is achieved by : gpg --sign ubuntucoc
[17:29] <shadeslayer> where ubuntucoc is the Ubuntu Code of Conduct you downloaded
[17:30] <shadeslayer> You should be able to download the COC from your launchpad profile page
[17:32] <shadeslayer> A ssh key is not needed as LP operates on FTP
[17:34] <shadeslayer> OK it might take a while for the keyserver to accept your key
[17:34] <shadeslayer> Continuing....
[17:34] <shadeslayer> * Now install ubuntu-dev-tools with : sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools
[17:35] <shadeslayer> These are needed for packaging your source and uploading them
[17:35] <shadeslayer> Heres a better description : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevTools
[17:35] <ClassBot> abhi_nav asked: How to know is that ubuntu-dev tools are already installed?
[17:36] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: well if apt-get install will print out some thing like : ubuntu-dev-tools already instaled
[17:36] <shadeslayer> *installed
[17:38] <shadeslayer> Ok has everyone installed ubuntu-dev-tools ?
[17:41] <shadeslayer> Should i continue?
[17:43] <shadeslayer> * Ok now we need to authorize ubuntu-dev-tools to LP, open a terminal and type : manage-credentials create -c CONSUMER --level 2 : where CONSUMER is your LP id.
[17:44] <shadeslayer> for eg : * Ok now we need to authorize ubuntu-dev-tools to LP, open a terminal and type : manage-credentials create -c rohangarg --level 2 : where CONSUMER is your LP id.
[17:45] <shadeslayer> use the read ALl non private data option
[17:46] <ClassBot> ben72 asked: level of access? should I choose "Change anything" on the webpage?
[17:46] <shadeslayer> ben72: see my last line
[17:48] <shadeslayer> Dont forget to press Enter in the terminal after youre done
[17:49] <shadeslayer> * Now type : manage-credentials create -c ubuntu-dev-tools -l 2
[17:49] <shadeslayer> * That gives access to ubuntu-dev-tools to LP.
[17:49] <shadeslayer> * Again we will only give access to read non-private data
[17:49] <shadeslayer> * Now back to your home page.
[17:51] <shadeslayer> * Now click Create New PPA
[17:51] <shadeslayer> * Give the PPA a name and description!
[17:52] <shadeslayer> You should be able to do this only if your gpg key was accepted
[17:52] <shadeslayer> and the COC was accepted
[17:53] <shadeslayer> CAUTION : You cannot change your LP url after publishing packages to your LP
[17:54] <shadeslayer> for eg: my LP url was : www.launchpad.net/~rohan16garg and i got it changed to www.launchpad.net/~rohangarg
[17:54] <shadeslayer> Anyone having problems?
[17:55] <shadeslayer> ok Continuing
[17:55] <shadeslayer> * Now onto the exciting part,for my demo here ill be using a fairly simple package to build,something we all use everyday,usually everybody gives a presentation with deb helper,but i just thing thats a bit old school
[17:55] <shadeslayer>   So im going to package choqok a kde microbloging client
[17:56] <ClassBot> abhi_nav asked: I have gnome. so will thim e.g. kde package work for me?
[17:56] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: yes!
[17:57] <shadeslayer> abhi_nav: you will not be building the package locally but LP will build it for you!
[17:57] <shadeslayer> Speeding things up a bit
[17:57] <shadeslayer> * Now choqok is already in the repos so open a terminal and make a new directory in your home like this : mkdir my_dir_name : ill be using packaging as the dir name.
[17:57] <shadeslayer> * Now the official repositories dont always have the latest builds of packages and features users want are in SVN/GIT repositories and they generally dont want to compile from sources,so theyre in a fix.
[17:57] <shadeslayer> * The best workaround for K/X/Ubuntu users are PPA's which host loads of packages.
[17:58] <shadeslayer> * So lets get cracking on ours ;)
[17:59] <shadeslayer> Should i continue?
[17:59] <shadeslayer> * First of all we need to tell dput which uploads our packages where they are supposed to go,configure yours by reading this : https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading : and as a example here's my .dput.cf : http://paste.ubuntu.com/385120/
[18:00] <shadeslayer> * So all done?
[18:00] <shadeslayer> * Ok,now you need to enable source repositories in you apt sources,just do this via synaptic or kpackagekit and tick the checkbox : [ ] Sources : You will need to reload your sources.list after this
[18:01] <shadeslayer> ok were back ;)
[18:01] <shadeslayer> now i have only 40 mins left
[18:01] <shadeslayer> so ill speed it up
[18:02] <shadeslayer> * Now we need to export some options to our .bashrc,so open a terminal and type : nano .bashrc
[18:02] <shadeslayer> * Now add these lines to the end : export DEBFULLNAME='Your_name_here' and export DEBEMAIL='your_email_id_here'
[18:02] <shadeslayer> * Save the file using Ctrl+O and hit Ctrl+X and then y to exit
[18:02] <shadeslayer> * Now we need to load the options we specified using : source .bashrc
[18:03] <shadeslayer> heres a example : http://paste.ubuntu.com/385199/
[18:03] <shadeslayer> NOTE : you need just the debmail and debname
[18:04] <shadeslayer> Continuing....
[18:04] <shadeslayer> * Save the file using Ctrl+O and hit Ctrl+X and then y to exit
[18:04] <shadeslayer> * Now we need to load the options we specified using : source .bashrc
[18:04] <shadeslayer> * Now cd to the packaging folder with : cd packaging
[18:04] <shadeslayer> * Now since were working on choqok we need its debian/ folder for packaging,so do : apt-get source choqok
[18:04] <shadeslayer> * This downloads the orginal tarball and the choqok folder with the deian/ folder in it
[18:06] <shadeslayer> Done?
[18:10] <shadeslayer> Ill have to continue
[18:11] <shadeslayer> * Now open a file manager and go to ~/packaging/
[18:11] <shadeslayer> * Now enter the choqok folder there and copy the debian directory to ~/packaging
[18:11] <shadeslayer> * Now you can remove the choqok folder and all the other files in ~/packaging excpet the debian/ folder
[18:11] <shadeslayer> * Now Download the choqok sources from here : http://choqok.gnufolks.org/download/ to ~/packaging
[18:13] <shadeslayer> Done?
[18:14] <shadeslayer> Make some noise in chat! :P
[18:14] <shadeslayer> Ok im continuing
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * Untar the tarball by using : tar xvfz filename.tar.gz
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * Now rename the tarball to choqok_0.9.4.orig.tar.gz
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * Ubuntu packaging versions follow this criteria : packagename_version.orig.tar.gz
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * For GIT/SVN packages we use : packagename_version+gitdate.orig.tar.gz like : choqok_0.9.4+svn20100227.orig.tar.gz
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * Now change the name of the untarred folder to choqok-0.9.4
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * Again folders follow : packagename-version+svndate
[18:15] <shadeslayer> * The svndate part is optional,its used only if we are packaging svn checkouts or git clones
[18:21] <shadeslayer> In packaging names are the most important part!
[18:22] <shadeslayer> Make sure you get these absolutely correct
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * Now in the terminal cd to the choqok folder : cd ~/packaging/choqok-0.9.4
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * Now Since were building this for lucid initially and then backporting it to karmic,the first entry in debian/changelog should be a lucid entry
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * So run : dch -D lucid -v 0.9.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * What that command does is make the entry in debian/changelog and opens a debian/changelog in nano,with a * bullet for a description
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * These * represent any stuff you changed in the debian/ folder
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * Since this a new upstream release we write : * New Upstream Release
[18:22] <shadeslayer> * Close the editor with Ctrl+X
[18:25] <shadeslayer> The session is a bit slow so im just going on ;)
[18:25] <shadeslayer> * Now open the contro file with : nano debian/control
[18:25] <shadeslayer> * The control file lists the build deps of choqok,and other important info we need to build binaries
[18:25] <shadeslayer> * Now the latest Standards-Version is 3.8.4 not 3.8.1 so first of all we check if its compliant (it is) and we change it to 3.8.4
[18:25] <shadeslayer> * Next thing we change is the Home page url,it should read : http://choqok.gnufolks.org , so we change that
[18:25] <shadeslayer> * Everything else is fine as is
[18:27] <shadeslayer> ben72: yes,thats perfectly fine
[18:31] <ClassBot> ben72 asked: I get a warning for lucid I guess. is that ok?
[18:31] <ClassBot> ben72 asked: what is the Standards-Version btw?
[18:31] <shadeslayer> ben72: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Standards-Version
[18:32] <shadeslayer> * Now we need to document what we changed, so do : dch -a in the choqok-0.9.4 folder
[18:32] <shadeslayer> * This command opens up debian/changelog with another bullet, Type : Changed Homepage url to http://choqok.gnufolks.org after the bullet
[18:32] <shadeslayer> * Close nano with ctrl+X and type dch -a again
[18:32] <shadeslayer> * This will put another bullet in debian/changelog, after the Bullet type : Bumped standards version to 3.8.4
[18:32] <shadeslayer> * And were almost done!
[18:33] <shadeslayer> I use dch -a to just to put the bullets,you can just use nano debian/changelog to do it,but dch -a always does it correctly with equally spaced bullets
[18:34] <shadeslayer> * Any Questions uptill now?
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * OK good!
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * Now in the choqok-0.9.4 folder run this : debuild -S -sa
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * What this command does is that it makes 3 files : choqok_0.9.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz , choqok_0.9.4+svn20100223-0ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc , and choqok_0.9.4+svn20100223-0ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes in the packaging directory
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * Now cd to the packaging directory
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * Now were going to upload the choqok_0.9.4+svn20100223-0ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes which contains all the info about the changes we made
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * So we use : dput ppaname choqok_0.9.4+svn20100223-0ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes , where ppaname is the name of the ppa you configured in dput.cf
[18:35] <shadeslayer> * Thats it! Now your upload is in the LP build queue waiting to be built!
[18:40] <shadeslayer> Oh be sure to install cdbs and debhelper!
[18:42] <shadeslayer> I think i forgot to mention that you need to move the debian folder into the choqok folder
[18:50] <shadeslayer> [ Extra Hacks! ]
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * Now if your impatient like me,you can build your package in a few mins instead of waiting for LP builders to do their job.
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * Install pbuilder using : sudo apt-get install pbuilder
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * Creat a pbuilderrc  like this one : http://paste.ubuntu.com/385143/ : change the distro and the mirror to a local mirror to create the chroot quickly
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * Ok,now cd to ~/packaging and type : sudo pbuilder build choqok_0.9.4+svn20100223-0ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * This builds your package in a clean chroot,you can even use this to find out if youve missed out on Build deps for new packages ;)
[18:50] <shadeslayer> [ New Packages ]
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * New packages are a bit hard to package,since they have no debian/ dirs in them,you have to use dh_make -e <your_email_id_here> to create the debian/ folder and the stuff that goes inside it
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * For eg i packaged a brand new KDE app recorditnow in my PPA,and found that it required a unpackaged lib : libjoschy : for creating the package
[18:50] <shadeslayer> * So i had to first package the joschy libs and then recorditnow,and this took me a entire 3 days to figure out ;)
[18:51] <shadeslayer> * What i would suggest is package stuff already in the repos and then switch to new stuff!
[18:57] <shadeslayer> So  that wraps it up folks!
[18:57] <shadeslayer> I had a wonderful time
[18:58] <shadeslayer> Ill be answering questions in chat
[18:58] <shadeslayer> Also i forgot to mention that you also need pkg-kde-tools,so im sorry
[19:00] <shadeslayer> back to normal


[12:24] <Eruantalon> My problem is that my boot time goes up by 120 seconds(more or less) when no cable is present(laptop)
[12:24] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: If you need a more lightweight solution than NetworkManager, use ifplugd
[12:24] <wasabi> And what causes that to happen?
[12:26] <Eruantalon> wasabi, well bootchart tells me it hangs on dhclient-script which is called by ifup.. I gather that means that it is stuck waiting for network configuring data that never comes
[12:26] <Eruantalon> because of lack of link to the outside world
[12:26] <wasabi> Uh huh. So don't bring up network automatically using Debian tools.
[12:26] <wasabi> Remove 'auto' from /etc/network/interfaces
[12:27] <mbiebl> But only for eth*. You still want your loopback device setup ;-)
[12:28] <wasabi> Yes yes
[12:29] <Eruantalon> wasabi, And put what in its place (I gather that is the same thing as disabling roaming mode in networksettings?
[12:29] <wasabi> Use network manager.
[12:29] <wasabi> Completely bypasses that.
[12:29] <Eruantalon> OK.
[12:30] <Eruantalon> But is there a way to make sure that it still happens upon entering gnome?
[12:30] <Eruantalon> I'd like the roaming features, works great, just not while booting.
[12:30] <wasabi> Hmm?
[12:30] <wasabi> That's what network manager is for.
[12:31] <Eruantalon> Ok, Then tell me should roaming be on or off?
[12:32] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: What do you mean by "roaming mode", switching automatically between available wireless networks?
[12:32] <Eruantalon> mbiebl, yes. But it is not my expression it says that in network settings
[12:32] <wasabi> I don't even know what screen you are refering to.
[12:33] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: If you are using wireless, network-manager is indeed the best choice for you.
[12:33] <Eruantalon> Ok just to make sure that we are talking about the same thing... What network manager are you talking about?
[12:33] <mbiebl> Just make sure, you comment all all eth* entries in /etc/network/interfaces
[12:34] <wasabi> apt-get install network-manager-gnome
[12:34] <wasabi> The only one of all of the solutions named "network manager"
[12:34] <Eruantalon> and what command opens it?
[12:34] <wasabi> It adds itself to your session. Install it, log out, then back in.
[12:35] <Eruantalon> mbiebl, I am using both wireless and wired( because sometimes wireles is to slow)
[12:35] <wasabi> Or run "nm-applet"
[12:35] <mbiebl> Better: "nm-applet --sm-disable"
[12:35] <wasabi> What's sm-disable do?
[12:35] <Eruantalon> wasabi, Ok, That is the same thing as what i've already got
[12:35] <mbiebl> Otherwise you will have two nm-applet instances nextt time you log in.
[12:36] <wasabi> Eruantalon: Okay, and what's wrong with it?
[12:36] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: Have you read /usr/share/doc/network-manager/README.Debian?
[12:36] <Eruantalon> Well Nothing. It is the startup scritpt during boot that wants to start networking when there is no cable which is a problem
[12:36] <wasabi> Nope, it's not.
[12:37] <wasabi> It does not block boot.
[12:37] <wasabi> Again, Debian network infrastructure does that.
[12:37] <wasabi> Again, comment out the auto lines for eth* in /etc/network/interfaces
[12:37] <Eruantalon> wasabi, And put nothing instead?
[12:37] <mbiebl> yes.
[12:37] <wasabi> I'm about done with this.
[12:38] <Eruantalon> And that will make sure nothing network related is started until gnome is?
[12:38] <wasabi> No. It will not make sure of that.
[12:38] <Eruantalon> Thanks a bunch anyway
[12:38] <wasabi> It will not use Debian's network infrastructure to start dhclient and block on it. That is all it will do.
[12:38] <wasabi> If you have other pieces of software which block on the network, you'll need to fix those.
[12:38] <wasabi> Such as for instance mounting network file systems in fstab.
[12:38] <wasabi> Also, as soon as the network manager daemon is started, it goes off and starts dhclient, in the background.
[12:40] <Eruantalon> Well I've commented out the two auto's and I guess I will have to restart to see what happens. Thanks.
[12:40] <wasabi> Do not comment out auto lo
[12:40] <wasabi> As mbiebl said earlier.
[12:40] <Eruantalon> I haven't :-)
[12:41] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: please pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces
[12:41] <Eruantalon> ok two seconds
[12:42] <Eruantalon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32977/
[12:43] <Eruantalon> Ok?
[12:43] <wasabi> You have the wireless interfaces set to auto also.
[12:43] <wasabi> You'll want to disable them too.
[12:43] <wasabi> The idea is whatever you set to auto and dhcp results in dhclient being started at boot, and waiting.
[12:43] <Eruantalon> everything but lo ?
[12:44] <wasabi> Correct.
[12:44] <Eruantalon> thanks
[12:44] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: you can remove everything besides
[12:44] <mbiebl> auto lo
[12:44] <mbiebl> iface lo inet loopback
[12:45] <Eruantalon> without screwing anything up?
[12:45] <mbiebl> If you have NM, you are fine.
[12:46] <mbiebl> But this is getting mighty OT now.
[12:46] <Eruantalon> Well I don't know if I will be going back so I'll leave it be. Never know when I want to have network during again?
[12:46] <Eruantalon> mbiebl, Sorry, But I thought it was something upstart would be able to do simply-
[12:49] <Eruantalon> Thanks. That did the trick
[12:50] <mbiebl> Eruantalon: the main idea behind upstart is, that it is event based.
[12:50] <Eruantalon> yep
[12:50] <mbiebl> You still need sources, which generate these events.
[12:51] <mbiebl> NM could be such a source for network events.
[12:51] <Eruantalon> mbiebl, I just thought that upstart was the underlying thing that drove network manager
[12:52] <Eruantalon> Do you know then where I should go to file a bug about this problem then. I gather it is the startupscripts in ubuntu and not a bug in upstart itself
[12:52] <mbiebl> Well, upstart is mainly a event queue and dispatcher.
[12:52] <mbiebl> It has no knowledge about network and stuff.
[12:53] <mbiebl> That's what I meant, when I said these kind of events have to be feed into upstart from external sources.
[12:54] <Eruantalon> Hmm I gotta reboot to check something. It seems that network manager lost any information about my wireless card...
[12:04] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk, do you know if the ubuntu server guys are planning to have the whole of EBox packaged in gutsy? i tried out tribe3 the other day, and did an aptitude update/upgrade, but still only a few of the ebox modules are there
[01:10] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: no idea, sorry
[01:10] <Keybuk> I would imagine so
[01:11] <AlexExtreme> ok, thanks
[01:11] <AlexExtreme> also, one more Q: do you plan to get native upstart jobs into gutsy?
[01:11] <Keybuk> no


[07:00] <TheEagerPadawan> still having the same issues as yesterday - posted the whole story here to not overly spam the channel - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4wwXmYmJ9t/
[11:08] <gratuxri> hello together, by testing new Bionic Beaver I see, that for example fai and live-build packages are very very old. Can someone point me to discussion why this packages are not up to date with debian packages?
[11:13] <tjaalton> live-build seems practically forked at this point, and no-one that uses fai bothered to merge it in time?
[11:20] <gratuxri> You mean that packages were build from launchpad? What about importing debian packages to ubuntu? Maybe be I don't understand full process of releasing and importing packages from debian. Can you point me to this workflow?
[11:21] <tjaalton> live-build: version 3.0~a57-1ubuntu34
[11:22] <tjaalton> means that it has ubuntu changes on top of 3.0~a57-1
[11:22] <tjaalton> 34 uploads in fact
[11:22] <tjaalton> and fai has a diff too, apt-get changelog fai-client would show that
[11:22] <tjaalton> packages need to be merged by a person so that the changes are not lost
[11:29] <gratuxri> OK, I can look at it
[11:31] <tjaalton> too late for bionic
[11:37] <gratuxri> Yes, but maybe for next release ;)
[11:40] <tjaalton> sure
[11:45] <tjaalton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging has more info on that
[12:08] <gratuxri> Thank you
[14:05] <jbicha> doko: could you just remove the elementary source package? Debian bug 895221
[19:02] <cousteau> Who do I have to annoy to get a package upgraded?  Arduino is OLD
[19:07] <jbicha> cousteau: it's being worked on in Debian. See Debian bug 780706
[19:08] <cousteau> So just wait for it to FINALLY make it into Debian, and then wait for it being inherited by Ubuntu?
[19:08] <cousteau> Also that bug mentions an Arduino 1.5.x I've never seen in Ubuntu
[19:10] <rbasak> cousteau: you realise this package is maintained by volunteers, right?
[19:11] <cousteau> Also the last mail in that list makes me think that list is a bit abandoned
[19:12] <cousteau> rbasak: point being?  I can annoy the volunteers too :)
[19:13] <rbasak> I think they deserve a little more respect.
[19:13] <cousteau> (I've contributed to Arduino before and I wouldn't even mind contributing to Ubuntu if I could; if your point is that I'm not in a position to demand things I understand that)
[19:13] <cousteau> I didn't disrespect them
[19:15] <cousteau> I just stated that the version in the repos is near 5 years old, and then asked if I just had to wait for it making it into Debian (which has been an ongoing thing for ages so I'm a bit pessimistic about its latency)
[19:16] <cousteau> (also, I hope you realize "annoy" wasn't literal)
[19:21] <cousteau> OK, so sorry if I sounded rude, it wasn't my intention.
[19:22] <cousteau> So, am I to expect arduino-1.8.x eventually making it into the Ubuntu repos in the near future?  Because that would be nice.
[19:24] <rbasak> Some will need to prepare the new packaging. Usually that happens in Debian and Ubuntu will autosync once the new development release opens.
[19:25] <rbasak> It can be done in Ubuntu ahead of Debian, but that would still need someone to prepare the new packaging and that person might as well coordinate with the work going on in Debian.
[19:26] <cousteau> I see, so no point in doing this ahead of Debian; it would be redundant
[19:27] <rbasak> You could still help the Debian maintainers out
[19:27] <cousteau> (unless there were reasons to think Debian was taking an excessively long time)
[19:27] <cousteau> OK, thanks!
[19:28] <cousteau> Now I know who I have to annoy :) (metaphorically)
[19:32] <cousteau> And sorry again if I sounded too impatient; it's just that Arduino has been outdated on Ubuntu for a long time and was really hoping for that to get fixed soon.
[19:44] <cousteau> Gotta go.  Thanks, rbasak and jbicha!


[02:45] <tnks> ah man... so few people here.  Should I be asking questions about Ubuntu application packaging elsewhere?
[02:45] <tnks> Is IRC truly dead?
[02:46] <tnks> Elleo: don't suppose you're someone who is an approved Ubuntu packager?
[09:03] <Elleo> tnks: sorry, no; but this is definitely not the right channel for that, this is an old defunct channel for ubuntu phone app development, you might be better off asking in #ubuntu-devel


[01:00] <thumper> mwhudson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/branch-push-permission/+merge/19834 if you have a minute
[01:02]  * jpds would like https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jpds/launchpad/fix_517839 looked into, please.
[01:03]  * thumper looks
[01:03] <mwhudson> thumper: done
[01:03] <thumper> mwhudson: ta
[01:15]  * wgrant is making use of that in another branch, and it seems good.
[01:34] <thumper> wgrant: the county one?
[01:34] <wgrant> thumper: Yeah.
[01:35] <thumper> jpds: I have a few comments on the branch, just finishing some QA first
[01:35] <wgrant> He's probably asleep.
[09:56] <noodles775> intellectronica: mine's a really easy one :) https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/launchpad/499421-dont-grind-bm-to-a-halt/+merge/19846
[09:56] <noodles775> 50 lines.
[09:56] <intellectronica> noodles775: cool, i'll review it now
[09:56] <noodles775> Thanks intellectronica.
[10:01] <intellectronica> noodles775: r=me
[10:01] <noodles775> Ta.
[11:26] <gmb> intellectronica: I have a branch that's 105-lines over the limit due to a couple of bits of refactoring (i.e. some of that 905-lines is due to moving large blocks of code). Would you be able to review it?
[11:26] <intellectronica> gmb: sure, i'll review it
[11:26] <gmb> intellectronica: Thanks. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/filebug-polling-for-jobs-bug-513193/+merge/19859.
[11:28] <stub> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stub/launchpad/dbpolicy-syntax/+merge/19854 <- 210 lines of syntactic sugar and documentation
[12:11] <jtv> stub: I can review your branch after lunch
[12:11] <gmb> intellectronica: I'm going to grab some lunch; feel free to ping me and I'll respond to any questions when I get back.
[12:11] <intellectronica> gmb: ok. no surprises so far
[12:11] <gmb> Cool.
[12:11] <jtv> stub: and, typo in the doctest: "Much of our code does not know if the objects being retrieved are need"
[12:12] <stub> I'm going to do future doctests in lolspeak
[12:13] <jtv> stub: such as this?  "want to prove only accesses slave database resources"
[12:13] <jtv> (also a double "if" in that sentence)
[12:13] <stub> Go easy. I'm Australian.
[12:14] <jtv> heh.  Looks like a very good branch otherwise, so I wouldn't have thought there was any need to.
[12:14] <stub> Actually.... that last is technically correct I think (just clumsy and confusing)
[13:53] <noodles775> hi intellectronica, if and when you have time, this next branch is just a test-refactor, but is 700 lines:
[13:53] <noodles775> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/launchpad/ppa-privatisation-test-refactor3/+merge/19864
[13:54] <intellectronica> noodles775: sure. i'm just in the middle of gmb's 900 line branch review, and have stub's (smaller) branch after that, but will do yours after that.
[13:54] <noodles775> Thanks.
[14:47] <henninge> Oh, it's Monday!!!
[14:47] <henninge> Hi intellectronica ... ;)
[14:52]  * henninge was too slow
[15:02] <abentley> henninge, your code for creating parent directories recursively seems to overlap with Transport.create_prefix.
[15:02] <henninge> abentley: yes, I was wondering if that has been done elsewhere. I guess, I was too lazy to search ... ;-)
[15:02] <henninge> abentley: thanks for the hint, I'll use that.
[15:02] <abentley> henninge, interesting definition of lazy :-)
[15:03] <henninge> abentley: well, coding is fun, isn't it? ;)
[15:04] <abentley> henninge, isHidden looks like it will match on any path containing dots, such as foo/../bar
[15:04] <henninge> abentley: good point ...
[15:04] <henninge> abentley: I should apply normpath first, I guess.
[15:05] <abentley> henninge, sure.  Alternatively, you could use bzrlib.osutils.splitpath and ensure that none of the path elements began with .
[15:06] <henninge> abentley: or is ".." or "."
[15:06] <abentley> henninge, yeah.  Probably normpath is simpler.
[15:11] <abentley> henninge, with those changes I'd be happy with your branch.
[15:20] <henninge> abentley: cool, thank you! ;)
[15:24] <henninge> abentley: are you sure about create_prefix, though? It does not take a path. Maybe I don't understand "transport" correctly.
[15:25] <henninge> abentley: if I have a file "foo/bar/bla.pt", how do I create that and the two directories above it?
[15:25] <abentley> henninge, a transport represents a path.  So you create the transport for the path you want to exist and then call create_prefix.
[15:25] <abentley> henninge, t = get_transport('foo/bar/bla.pt'); t.create_prefix(); t.put_bytes('bla.pt', 'contents')
[15:26] <abentley> henninge, actually, the last would be just put_bytes('.', 'contents')
[15:26] <henninge> abentley: oh cool, thanks.
[15:29] <abentley> henninge, actually, I guess you're starting with a transport, so you'd do root_transport.clone('foo/bar/bla.pt')
[15:55] <henninge> abentley: put_bytes does not like '.', it seems. http://paste.ubuntu.com/381669/
[15:56]  * henninge tries to use basename, now.
[15:56] <abentley> henninge, looking.
[15:57] <henninge> abentley: the code snippet http://paste.ubuntu.com/381673/
[16:00] <abentley> henninge, that's irritating; it works with mkdir.
[16:07] <abentley> henninge, I suggest: https://pastebin.canonical.com/28208/
[16:09] <henninge> abentley: thanks. Only it is "create_prefix". ;) You might be confusing it with ensure_base.
[16:10] <abentley> henninge, okay, so ensure_base would probably be more appropriate.
[16:10] <abentley> henninge, actually, no.
[16:10] <henninge> abentley: no, I looked at the code and it's not recursive
[16:11] <henninge> or iterative ... ;)
[16:11] <abentley> henninge, ^
[16:11] <henninge> right ;)
[16:24] <gmb> intellectronica: What was the final outcome of your review of my branch? LP still says "pending" for your review and I haven't seen any emails about it.
[16:24] <intellectronica> gmb: really? it was r=me, and i definitely approved it in the ui
[16:25] <gmb> intellectronica: Hrm. Nothing showing on the mp at all. Can you re-approve it for the sake of seeing what happens?
[16:26] <intellectronica> gmb: yes, approved again now. don't know what happened
[16:26] <gmb> intellectronica: Thanks.
[16:41] <noodles775> hi henninge, I'll be leaving soon, just wondering if you had any questions about the MP?
[16:43] <abentley> BjornT, what's the status of lp:~bjornt/launchpad/form-overlay-render-by-default ?
[16:51] <henninge> noodles775: sorry, I did not get  very far...
[16:52] <henninge> noodles775: but no questions so far.
[16:57] <noodles775> OK, thanks henninge.
[17:09] <al-maisan> Hello there! I have a simple branch that fixes spurious test failures.
[17:09] <al-maisan> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~al-maisan/launchpad/fuzzy-test-525329/+merge/19885
[17:09] <al-maisan> 46 lines
[17:09] <al-maisan> anybody willing to review it?
[17:11] <al-maisan> abentley: could you please take a look?
[17:11] <abentley> al-maisan, sure.
[17:11] <al-maisan> thanks!
[17:15] <abentley> al-maisan, r=me
[17:15] <al-maisan> abentley: thank you very much!
[17:16] <abentley> al-maisan, it might be profitable to allow an external time source to be used, but that would probably take more re-engineering.
[17:17] <al-maisan> abentley: indeed.
[18:11] <mrevell> Hey, anyone want the easiest review evah? :) It's the what's new for 10.02 https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~matthew.revell/launchpad/whatsnew-10.02/+merge/19892
[18:20]  * jpds needs https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jpds/launchpad/fix_520469/+merge/19890 looking into. :)
[19:52] <jpds> thumper: I fixed the issues you found on https://code.launchpad.net/~jpds/launchpad/fix_517839/+merge/19774
[19:52] <thumper> jpds: cool
[19:55] <thumper> jpds: done
[19:56] <jpds> thumper: Can you please ec2land it for me? I don't have access to PQM.
[19:56] <thumper> jpds: yep
[19:57] <jpds> Awesome, thanks. :)
[21:15] <thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/no-none-subject/+merge/19902
[21:15] <thumper> very trivial
[21:18] <mwhudson> thumper: done
[21:31] <rockstar> abentley, do you have time for my trivial bug?
[21:51] <abentley> rockstar, looking
[21:54] <rockstar> abentley, actually, I think it might be better to just pass the bugbranch.bug.default_bugtask into the DeletionCallable.
[21:54] <rockstar> abentley, then I don't need the messy change to the tal.
[21:56] <abentley> rockstar, I agree.  Actually, I'm not sure we should still be displaying it, but that needs more thought.
[21:57] <rockstar> abentley, well, it's not doing any harm displaying it instead of the bug itself.
[21:58] <abentley> rockstar, I'm about to EOD.
[21:58] <rockstar> abentley, okay, I'll push this change so you can see it.
[21:58] <abentley> Cool.
[22:00] <thumper> mwhudson: ec2 land is complaining because you just approved without reviewing :)
[22:00] <mwhudson> thumper: must be a bug in the ui
[22:01] <mwhudson> :)
[22:01] <mwhudson> thumper: done now
[22:01] <thumper> mwhudson: ta
[22:01] <rockstar> abentley, just waiting for lp to figure out the branch has changes now...
[22:03] <rockstar> abentley, new diff there.
[22:05] <abentley> rockstar, r=me.  Maybe you should change "deleted-items" into "deletion-items" since they haven't been deleted yet.
[22:05] <rockstar> abentley, okay.  I'll do that.
[23:19] <thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/code-review-email-attachment-fix/+merge/19924 anyone?
[23:19]  * thumper heads out for coffee


[04:50] <d3n4riu5> ola
[18:36] <dsx> hello. 13.10 install party?
[18:36] <dsx> yes/no/third funny option
[18:43] <Ankman> anyine any recommendation for DSL internet in quebec?
[18:43] <Ankman> residential
[22:30] <cyphermox> yeah
[22:30] <cyphermox> Ankman: Teksavvy
[22:30] <cyphermox> dsx: yes, install party and release party, to be planned
[22:30] <cyphermox> dsx: if you want to plan it, feel free to propose stuff on the mailing list, that would be awesome!
[23:03] <Ankman> thanks


[00:04] <Compy> sheesh, no matter where I go, I can't get away from chalcedony!
[00:04] <chalcedony> lol
[00:05] <chalcedony> greetings dear Compy :)
[00:05] <Compy> yo
[00:05] <chalcedony> missed you around
[00:07] <Compy> yeah, I've been keeping super busy. How are you?
[00:09] <chalcedony> Compy, ok ty
[00:09] <chalcedony> just hanging around mostly
[00:30] <Vivekananda> hey there
[00:31] <Vivekananda> anyone here ?
[06:22] <kewel> hi lubuntu 12.04 piii1ghz 512mb -- did 'sudo apt-get install radiotray'.  I've got the RadioTray icon in my menu under sound/video but it does nothing.  anyone got any ideas?
[06:25] <kewel> hmm .. ran 'radiotray' at the cli and it mentions gnome a couple times.
[06:25] <kewel> not kewel
[06:25] <wxl> not sure what that is kewel
[06:25] <wxl> will check it
[06:26] <kewel> hi
[06:26] <kewel> it's supposed to be a lightweight internet radio client
[06:26] <wxl> strange
[06:26] <wxl> the only way to use it is through the tray?
[06:26] <kewel> pfff i dono!
[06:27] <kewel> i saw somescreen shots that were in ubuntu
[06:27] <kewel> but welp this isn't ubuntu ..
[06:27] <wxl> harumph
[06:27] <kewel> however when I *did* install radiotray-lubuntu!!
[06:27] <kewel> strike the when part
[06:27] <wxl> no, you installed radiotray
[06:27] <wxl> every screenshot i see shows a gnome system tray
[06:28] <wxl> which you don't have
[06:28] <kewel> I did 'sudo apt-get install radio-tray' but the packages it installed had lubuntu in their names
[06:28] <wxl> and widgets made for it are not compatible with lxpanel
[06:28] <kewel> aha
[06:28] <wxl> however nowhere does it make it clear that it's specifically gnome-related
[06:30] <kewel> welp, I'm just hoping to find a [*really*] lightweight internet radio prog
[06:30] <wxl> mpg123
[06:30] <wxl> can't get lighter
[06:30] <wxl> but it's cli only
[06:30] <wxl> and that assumes you only use mp3 stations
[06:30] <kewel> ehh.. I wouldn't mind, but this machine is used by other folks
[06:31] <kewel> in the past I used live365.com which is a streaming web page .. but on this old puter it's really slow at getting some sound to come out!
[06:31] <wxl> mplayer works, too
[06:31] <wxl> so does vlc
[06:31] <wxl> i'm sure audacity, aqualung, etc.
[06:31] <kewel> streaming stations?
[06:31] <wxl> almost everything will do the trick
[06:31] <kewel> shows how much I know about that
[06:32] <kewel> I tohught audacity was a sound editor .....
[06:32] <kewel> =P
[06:32] <wxl> oops
[06:32] <kewel> audacious perhaps?
[06:32] <wxl> not audacity
[06:32] <wxl> yep
[06:32] <kewel> werd
[06:32] <kewel> got that
[06:33] <kewel> open url
[06:33] <kewel> looking for sumpin a bit more user friendly
[06:33] <wxl> lightweight != user-friendly as a general rule
[06:33] <wxl> what is it that you want?
[06:33] <kewel> hahah
[06:34] <kewel> a helicopter to rdo
[06:34] <kewel> rdo
[06:34] <kewel> rio
[06:34] <kewel> point and click radio stations
[06:34] <wxl> miro maybe?
[06:34] <wxl> not sure if there's a linux version to be honest
[06:34] <wxl> but it's NOT light
[06:35] <wxl> yep there is one
[06:37] <kewel> then it prolly won't do.
[06:37] <kewel> just not enough stuff out there for lubuntu sometimes
[06:37] <wxl> but what i'm trying to tell you is that you can't have your cake and eat it too
[06:37] <wxl> there's lots of things about lubuntu that aren't user friendly
[06:37] <kewel> maybe best off trying out webbased stations
[06:37] <wxl> but they're light
[06:37] <kewel> zactally
[06:38] <wxl> but there's TONS of stuff available for lubuntu. cuz almost everything is
[06:38] <kewel> maybe I should be typing about lxde
[06:38] <kewel> wait that is the window man right?
[06:39] <wxl> what i'm telling you is everything that's available for ubuntu is available for lubuntu
[06:39] <kewel> got that
[06:39] <kewel> what am I thinking of
[06:39] <kewel> not gnome, not kde
[06:39] <kewel> but ....
[06:39] <wxl> yep, lxde
[06:39] <kewel> lxde?
[06:39] <wxl> if you want things that don't require gnome or kde there are STILL tons of things
[06:40] <wxl> many apps don't require any one of those, but run off of qt or gtk or other libs
[06:40] <kewel> lxde can use those libs too?
[06:41] <wxl> yep because they're not de specific
[06:41] <wxl> my guess is this will fix your problem: http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/
[06:41] <wxl> !info streamtuner
[06:41] <wxl> doh
[06:41] <wxl> ah
[06:41] <wxl> !info streamtuner2
[06:42] <wxl> …which, as an example, uses gtk
[06:46] <kewel> back
[06:47] <kewel> does it work with lubuntu?
[06:47] <wxl> apparently you're not paying attention :)
[06:47] <wxl> if it uses gtk or qt it works universally
[06:47] <wxl> this uses gtk
[06:48] <kewel> hmm
[06:48] <kewel> checking itout ...
[06:48] <kewel> is it as simple as an apt-get command?
[06:49] <wxl> they all are
[06:49] <kewel> not squeemish but tired. =/
[07:50] <kewel> wxl: you still around?
[07:58] <kewel> uh installing a deb package, and it tells me a newer version is found in the 'software channel'.  wth is that?!
[08:07] <kewel> !ubottu
[08:17] <wxl> kewel: sorry disappeared. sudo apt-get install streamtuner2
[08:17] <wxl> anywho off to bed
[08:20] <kewel> hey cool
[08:20] <kewel> just wanted to say I got streamtuner2 working and it's badass
[08:20] <kewel> tons of stations and launches audacious to the correct urls
[08:20] <kewel> =)
[08:20] <kewel> peace
[08:26] <kewel> oh and streamtuner2 isn't what I was really looking for.  but it is badass.
[08:26] <kewel> heh
[08:26] <kewel> dono if I can teach my housemates to use it is what I mean. =/
[08:26] <kewel> o wel.  peace
[12:51] <pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the Lubuntu download page
[12:51] <pjotr> Perhaps it's a good idea to present the LTS version as the primary eye-catching download option. Not as a semi-hidden option under "Previous releases". So that beginners with Lubuntu, will usually pick the LTS.
[12:51] <pjotr> Reason: as we know, starting with Raring, support for intermediate ("standard") releases will be halved to nine months.
[12:52] <pjotr> As Mark Shuttleworth said: "Our working assumption is that the latest interim release is used by folks who will be involved, even if tangentially, in the making of Ubuntu, and LTS releases will be used by those who purely consume it." http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1246
[12:52] <pjotr> What do you think?
[12:57] <Touhou11> I disagree, interim releases should still be usable for an "average" user and stable, otherwise they're pointless being called a release
[12:57] <Touhou11> Packages in LTS releases can be drastically out of date after a year or two
[12:58] <pjotr> The main issue here is support period, I think. It's not nice for a beginner to be forced to upgrade very quickly...
[12:58] <pjotr> key word is "forced"
[13:02] <Touhou11> It depends what level of support a user expects
[13:02] <pjotr> security updates
[13:02] <Touhou11> We could mimic the approch of this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
[13:03] <Touhou11> It makes it clear to the user they need to choose between long support or features
[13:07] <pjotr> Touhou11: that's an idea... Do you know who's in charge of that?
[13:08] <phillw> pjotr: lubuntu 12.04 will continue to receive security updates, however it is not an LTS in so far as the 'lubuntu specific' parts will receive updates.
[13:08] <phillw> it already has been discussed about having 14.04 as an LTS.
[13:10] <phillw> the rules actually state you need two 'normal' releases prior to your 1st LTS, 12.04 was our second 'normal' release, albeit that it will have security updates for things like the kernel for a longer period of time than is expected for a 'normal' release.
[13:14] <pjotr> phillw: I see... Yes, that complicates matters for now
[13:16] <pjotr> Nevertheless, for a beginner with Lubuntu, 12.04 will often be the better choice after April 25, I think
[13:17] <pjotr> Have you maybe an idea how that "fact" could be presented on the download page?
[13:25] <pjotr> for "fact", read "consideration". More suitable, I think. :-)
[13:29] <pjotr> it's not just new kernels you'll keep getting in 12.04, but also things like a new Firefox and a new Flash Player
[13:36] <Touhou11> pjotr: Flash player on Linux has been abandoned, so there won't be newer releases
[13:46] <pjotr> Touhou11: so it is, but the old Flash version does still get security updates (no feature updates, only security updates). Anyway, it was just an example...
[20:01] <grouver_> hi
[20:01] <grouver_> wxl, your here?
[20:01] <wxl> grouver_: what up
[20:01] <grouver_> You remember me from the wired internet problem?
[20:02] <wxl> yep
[20:02] <grouver_> It was the NIC it was broken or something. I replaced it and internet works now.
[20:02] <wxl> weird that it worked for a bit but not surprising
[20:02] <grouver_> But now i have a new problem. Horay.
[20:02] <wxl> goodie! probably an easie rone ;)
[20:02] <grouver_> wxl, my usb ports are not working.
[20:03] <grouver_> I tried different sticks. And they all do not light up if i plug them in in any port.
[20:03] <wxl> grouver_: first thing first, what is the result of lsusb ?
[20:03] <grouver_> I tried:  lsusb.  but it gives: unable to initialize libusb: -99
[20:03] <wxl> hm
[20:03] <wxl> is this quantal or raring?
[20:04] <grouver_> come again? :p
[20:04] <wxl> lsb_release -a
[20:05] <grouver_> No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID:	Ubuntu Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS Release:	12.04 Codename:	precise
[20:05] <wxl> precise
[20:05] <grouver_> wxl, didnt install the newest version yet fyi.
[20:05] <wxl> that's what i just figured out :)
[20:05] <grouver_> cocky me.. :p
[20:06] <wxl> well this is really curious.
[20:06] <grouver_> http://libusb.6.n5.nabble.com/lsusb-Get-quot-unable-to-initialize-libusb-99-quot-td5650506.html
[20:06] <wxl> what about lspci | grep -i usb?
[20:06] <wxl> cuz i think lsusb will give you the hubs but lspci should give you the controller itself
[20:06] <grouver_> i doesnt display anything.
[20:07] <grouver_> it*
[20:07] <wxl> what machine is this?
[20:07] <grouver_> wxl, a compaq i believe.  Let me check.
[20:07] <wxl> specifics please
[20:08] <grouver_> i dont really know. Is there a command to retrieve all hardware info?
[20:08] <wxl> well not that's going to give you info on the model name per se
[20:08] <wxl> you can get the cpu and all that
[20:08] <grouver_> oh know.. the case says: "Micromaxx"
[20:09] <grouver_> its a really old pc i can tell you that though.
[20:09] <grouver_> defenitly 10 years old at least.
[20:09] <wxl> not a laptop?
[20:09] <grouver_> no
[20:09] <wxl> yeah doesn't help
[20:10] <grouver_> its running an AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+
[20:10] <grouver_> so yeah its a old one lol.
[20:10] <wxl> it's a presario most likely
[20:10] <wxl> but could be one of many
[20:11] <grouver_> that cpu is made in 2002.
[20:11] <grouver_> anyways... arent the usb ports broken if the usb sticks doenst light up?
[20:12] <wxl> something is amiss for sure
[20:12] <grouver_> i mean it isnt about any driver or whatever then right? It doesnt even get power.
[20:12] <wxl> either drivers or hardware
[20:12] <grouver_> shoot.. i need them usb ports. :(
[20:13] <grouver_> got the model nr.
[20:13] <grouver_> hold on a sec.
[20:14] <grouver_> micromaxx pcmt6
[20:16] <wxl> that's just the mainboard, no/
[20:17] <grouver_> well the case says also Micromaxx at the front so.
[20:17] <wxl> google searches don't seem to suggest that's the model number of the computer
[20:17] <wxl> or anything to do with anything outside of the internal hardware
[20:20] <grouver_> well i cant find anything in the inside of the case either. :(
[20:21] <grouver_> Should I try the ubuntu channel. Maybe somebody over there knows a trick to know if its the driver or just a hardware problem?
[20:34] <holstein> grouver_: i usually just try different live CD's.. have you tried a knoppix live cd? have you tried seeing the usb hardware on a bios level?
[20:35] <holstein> the issue for me would be, i waste a bunch of time trying to make the USB hardware work when its actually broken
[20:36] <grouver_> holstein, since the NIC was broken to..  i think this may be the cause yes.  Iam asking at the ubuntu channel now.
[20:36] <grouver_> holsten, will try to take a look in to the bios yes. Good one.
[20:37] <holstein> grouver_: sure, but thats actually my point. if the hardware is bad, it'll be bad no matter what OS you are on.. the OS (any os) will just say "hardware not present" in whatever way it says that
[20:41] <grouver_> gonna reboot... will check bios. see you guys. thanks for the help.
[20:43] <holstein> grouver_: if my bios didnt boot usb...
[20:43] <holstein> i would burn a plop iso, and boot that.. see if the USB hardware presents its self, and can be booted
[20:44] <holstein> if i booted a plop CD and it didnt show any usb hardware, i would assume an issue with the hardware
[20:45] <grouver_> holstein, gonna take a peek now. Thanks. wxl, holstein.   Goodnight.
[20:51] <grouver_> holstein, wxl, fixed :D
[20:51] <grouver_> USB was disabled in the bios.
[20:51] <grouver_> So was the onboard lan connection.
[20:52] <grouver_> lol thats why the onboard connection didnt work wxl.
[20:52] <grouver_> anyways.. gotta go.  thanks.
[20:52] <holstein> grouver_: thats why i suggested checking the bios for the LAN issue before.. if the harware is off or broken, there is *nothing* *any* os can do to support the hardware
[20:53] <holstein> grouver_: cheers!


[01:58] <mhall119> Nothing_Much: forums++
[02:04] <Nothing_Much> mhall119: that's it?
[02:04] <Nothing_Much> that's not a bad thing, but I'm honestly loving it
[02:06] <mhall119> yeah, it's basically forums done well
[19:15] <DammitJim> what version of Ubuntu server LTS uses samba 3 instead of 4?
[19:18] <mhall119> DammitJim: no idea, why?
[19:19] <DammitJim> I am using power broker integration services to join a windows domain and now that I want to configure a samba share, samba 4 is not supported by power broker
[19:20] <mhall119> ah, I see
[19:20] <DammitJim> or do you have other suggestions on how to join a windows domain?
[19:21] <DammitJim> I'm setting up a file server to replace a windows file server
[19:21] <DammitJim> ya know... users have their own share that noone else can see and stuff
[19:21] <mhall119> "windows domain" + "linux" usually means samba
[19:21] <mhall119> but I don't know when the switch was made from 3 to 4
[19:22] <DammitJim> thanks