[13:26] <caribou> Hello holmanb, I have just ran over an annoying issue with my last PR on DataSourceScaleway tied to Focal & Bionic :
[13:26] <caribou> In a few places in tests we check that the python minor version is >= 7 to use RequestsMock.assert_call_count() but I Have just found out
[13:26] <caribou> that this one is only available from Jammy onward.
[13:26] <caribou> So building deb pkgs on Focal or Bionic fails since unittests fail on this assert missing
[13:27] <caribou> Would it be feasible to fit a quick MR to change if sys.version_info.minor >= 7 for if sys.version_info.minor >= 10 so those asserts do not fail ?
[13:36] <caribou> This is bound to come up when pkgs are built for Focal & Bionic distro$
[14:02] <caribou> btw it is problematic on Focal only. The skip remains valid for bionic
[14:41] <holmanb> caribou: I'm not seeing the same issues with our daily builds, but if you are seeing an issue I'm guessing others might as well, and we should fix it, yes.
[14:44] <holmanb> caribou: If you want to propose a fix (including the unittest errors), I can review it.
[14:45] <holmanb> caribou: otherwise I can try to fix it, but more info to get a reproducer would be helpful for that
[14:48] <falcojr> caribou: do you have the latest code?
[14:48] <falcojr> Is it fixed with https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/2119 ?
[14:48] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 2119 in canonical/cloud-init "backport assert_call_count for old requests" [Merged]
[14:48] <holmanb> @falcojr: +1 good point, I forgot about that fix
[15:27] <caribou> Oh, I didn't know about this one, good catch !
[15:27] <caribou> and since I build on my own commit, I didn't get it; I'll build on the latest MAIN
[15:27] <caribou> thanks!


[00:11] <cjohnston> awesome!
[00:34] <zul> can someone tell me why python-oslo-config isnt in raring yet, it built fine for raring-proposed 4 hours ago?
[00:38] <jbicha> zul: it adds a new binary package which has to be manually approved first https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=0
[00:38] <zul> k thanks
[00:40] <jbicha> zul: since you're here, how do you want to handle the final comment of bug 1140613?
[00:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1140613 in python-warlock (Ubuntu) "Merge python-warlock 0.8.1-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140613
[00:40] <zul> jbicha: Its already been taking care of
[00:42] <jbicha> zul: oh I see, thanks
[00:49] <zul> can someone please approve python-oslo-config plrease?
[01:48] <infinity> cjwatson: Woo!
[01:50] <infinity> zul: What's the rationale for the oslo-config package rename?
[01:51] <zul> infinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oslo-config/+bug/1130196
[01:51] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1130196 in oslo-config "[MIR] oslo-config" [High,Fix released]
[01:51] <infinity> zul: Hrm.  I was going to check if there was some sort of python naming policy, but I guess there's precedence for the dot-notation in zope.* and z3c.*, etc.
[01:54] <zul> infinity:  cool thanks
[02:47] <xnox> infinity: cheers for the shibroken.
[09:37] <ara> hello! is a freeze happening today?
[09:39] <seb128> ara, hey, I guess so
[09:39] <seb128> ara, it would be logical to stick to the schedule until a decision on the next steps is taken
[09:40] <seb128> ara, it doesn't mean we will not change the freeze or other things in a week if a different path is decided
[09:41] <seb128> ara, well, that's my view on the situation, don't take it as an official statement ;-)
[09:41] <cjwatson> that's my understanding too
[09:41] <didrocks> FYI I warned the PS team this morning about it
[09:41] <Laney> indeed
[09:41] <Laney> we should be sure to announce it today
[09:41] <didrocks> so normally, we should be safe on their side
[09:42] <seb128> didrocks, good, I wonder if lars & charles had planned to land any indicator work this cycle, they didn't yet
[09:42] <seb128> didrocks, but let's take that to their channel
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: I think this is aborted by now, I don't see them landing that today ;)
[09:43] <didrocks> but yeah, let's talk with him once they are around (I sent the email to their manager about the freeze)
[09:48] <ara> seb128, thanks!
[09:48] <brendand> seb128, exactly what time is it at? we want to upload a package today so it would be good to know
[09:48] <Laney> normally 2100 UTC
[09:49] <ara> normally it is at 21:00 UTC
[09:49] <Laney> SNAP
[13:35] <tumbleweed> oops, themuso and I both sponsored the nvidia-cuda-toolkit SRU to quantal. queue reject -Q unapproved -s quantal-proposed 5297155 , please
[13:37] <infinity> I'm going to reject the one that didn't run update-maintainer.
[13:37] <tumbleweed> even better :)
[13:37] <tumbleweed> (and I'm impressed you diffed it that quickly)
[13:42] <ogra_> hmm, regarding the livefs buld logs it looks like we have a dead armhf builder again
[13:42] <ogra_> *build
[14:29] <ScottK> qscintilla2 is finally done.
[14:44] <infinity> ScottK: I see you gave up on the symbols file of doom.
[14:45] <ScottK> Fornow.
[14:45] <ScottK> I know how to fix it, I just didn't quit get it to work right.
[14:45] <ScottK> qiut/quite
[14:45] <ScottK> Meh.  I give.
[14:45] <infinity> Yeah, I gave it a short stab before I left for Hong Kong and threw my hands in the air cursing C++ symbols.
[14:46] <infinity> The answer would have been to hand-write it, in my case.
[14:47] <infinity> Basically, take a few examples from varying arches, see how it plays out, and then hand-craft a file that makes sense, since pkgkdesymbolsthingee wasn't doing me any favours.
[14:47] <infinity> It's probably high time someone broke that out of the KDE packaging tools.
[14:47] <infinity> And then made it less crap.
[14:49] <nigelb> 8
[14:49] <nigelb> (grr, sorry)
[14:49] <infinity> apw: Didn't you write a quick and dirty symbols parser/generator when you were grumping over some C++ symbols files?
[14:52] <ScottK> infinity: The actual problem is using not using the pkgkde-symbolshelper during the actual build (using it to generate the symbols file isn't - in this case - enough).
[14:53] <ScottK> The fact that the C++ stuff isn't included in dpkg-gensymbols (or whichever one it is) is unfortunate.
[15:07] <dobey> so are we in feature freeze?
[15:08] <Laney> 2100 UTC
[15:08] <dobey> so 13.04 is still on then?
[15:08] <Laney> yes, until we hear otherwise
[15:13] <ScottK> It's on until it's not.
[15:14] <shadeslayer> I have a new upstream release for KDE Telepathy that I
[15:14] <shadeslayer> er
[15:15] <shadeslayer> *That I'm packaging at the moment, and will probably upload in a day or two
[15:15] <shadeslayer> do I have to file a FFe?
[15:15] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ScottK ^
[15:24] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Yes.
[15:24] <shadeslayer> bah :(
[15:25] <ScottK> infinity: Is sagari stuck?  If I read the build log right, the "in progress" build finished a long time ago ...
[15:40] <xnox> ScottK: is that arm?
[15:40] <Laney> ppc
[15:40] <ScottK> xnox: powerpc
[15:40] <xnox> hm.
[15:41] <Laney> looks like it's shifted now
[15:41] <ScottK> So it did.
[15:51] <infinity> ScottK: It appears "stuck" sometimes because its bandwidth sucks, and the final uploading stage can take a while on large packages.
[15:51] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[15:51] <infinity> ScottK: It's the only buildd in Boston, and there are some network hiccups there that need solving. :P
[15:51] <ScottK> Oh. I had no idea.
[15:52] <infinity> That sounds like the sort of response you'd give to "my mother just died", not "there's a computer in Boston", but okay. ;)
[18:41]  * xnox ponders if stuff in -proposed at freeze will be let through or not ;-)
[18:42] <cjwatson> It will
[18:42] <xnox> ok good.
[20:22] <ScottK> infinity: qscintilla2 and friends just migrated, so that's off the list.
[20:38] <ScottK> slangasek, cjwatson, other release team members: Someone should announce feature freeze.
[20:39] <slangasek> ScottK: yes, I'm going to send out a mail
[20:39] <ScottK> slangasek: Great.
[20:39] <ScottK> Thanks.
[20:43]  * micahg is wrestling with the last few uploads, should be done in ~1.5 hours
[20:43] <micahg> if that's ok with the release team
[20:44] <ScottK> Depends on how fast slangasek writes his mail.
[20:45]  * micahg goes and uploads the thing he's least likely to get an exception for before 21:00
[21:04] <ogra_> ubuntu-armhf-nexus7 on celbalrai.buildd starting at 2013-03-07 21:03:47
[21:04] <ogra_> lockfile: Try praying, giving up on "/home/buildd/buildLiveCD.lock"
[21:04] <ogra_> infinity, ^^^ mind giving it a kick ?
[21:10] <stgraber> slangasek: just spotted a small problem with the packaging of upstart, I think I fixed it now but it'll take me an extra 5-10min to wait for the test build and post-build tests
[21:13] <slangasek> stgraber: ok.  I'll consider that "close enough" and worthy of an implicit FFe
[21:14] <slangasek> no need to incentivize people to upload broken things to avoid the FFe paperwork
[21:17] <stgraber> slangasek: uploaded. Now to hope it'll build on powerpc (only arch I couldn't testbuild)
[21:19] <xnox> Hmm... my ubiquity did not go as well =)
[21:19] <xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/133275922/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.ubiquity_2.13.13_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:19] <xnox> we have uninstalability in raring-release?
[21:21] <slangasek> packages are built against -proposed, not just against release (for reasons that are obvious if you think about it)
[21:22] <xnox> yeah, but there is no libsoup in proposed.
[21:22] <slangasek> yeah
[21:22] <xnox> ah, but something else, can be broken because of it. I see.
[21:22] <slangasek> but apt also doesn't bother telling you the real source of the uninstallability in such cases :)
[21:25]  * xnox will wait for ubiquity to be published in -proposed, and then i'll troubleshoot.
[21:25] <xnox> (src that is)
[21:25] <Laney> it's just skew with glib-networking
[21:26] <slangasek> which flavors are doing Beta1 next week?
[21:27] <xnox> Laney: oh, ok. Is it in progress? i see that my i386 built fine =)
[21:27] <Laney> sounds even more like skew then ;-)
[21:27] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib-networking/2.35.9-1
[22:04] <slangasek> ScottK: you commented earlier about qscintilla2... I currently see it in components-mismatches, is that a phantom or were you referring to something else?
[22:06] <ScottK> slangasek: I was referring to getting it out of proposed.
[22:06] <ScottK> It's been stuck there for quite some time.
[22:11] <ScottK> slangasek: libqsinctilla2-8 is NBS.  That's why it hit CM.
[22:12] <ScottK> And it looks like 2-9 needs to be put in Main.
[22:12] <slangasek> ok
[22:13] <slangasek> (done)
[22:19] <micahg> slangasek: Xubuntu is on board for beta 1
[22:19] <micahg> I have 2 more uploads to do before we're ready though
[22:21] <slangasek> ok
[23:08] <jbicha> micahg: I have the gimp 2.8.4 update ready, would you prefer that now or after Beta 1?
[23:10] <micahg> jbicha: now's fine if it's bug fix
[23:10] <micahg> actually, now's fine either way, just request FFe if you need it
[23:13] <jbicha> ok, Release Team, it builds, installs and runs here, can I get an IRC FFe for gimp 2.8.2>2.8.4?
[23:13] <jbicha> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/tree/NEWS?h=gimp-2-8
[23:15] <robert_ancell> As per slangasek's email. I'm here to beg to get lightdm 1.5.1 into raring as it's just missed feature freeze (lp:~robert-ancell/lightdm/ubuntu-1.5.1)
[23:17] <robert_ancell> While technically it's a major version bump over 1.4.x the changes are bugfixes, patches from Ubuntu upstreamed and new support for Qt5
[23:18] <xnox> infinity: doko will buy you beer if you accept https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=openssl
[23:19]  * xnox whoops didn't notice that doko is in the room.
[23:30] <ogra_> robert_ancell, you should upload in any case ... it will sit in the queue  for acceptance then
[23:30] <robert_ancell> ogra_, ok
[23:30] <ogra_> (so it doesnt get delayed even more)
[23:31] <ScottK> ogra_: No.  It won't.
[23:32] <ScottK> robert_ancell: ^^^
[23:32] <ScottK> The archive isn't frozen.
[23:32] <robert_ancell> ScottK, um, I just uploaded it - can you put a block on it?
[23:33] <ogra_> hmm, why isnt it frozen if we are in a freeze
[23:33] <ScottK> Yeah.  We can block the transition to the release pocket.
[23:33] <robert_ancell> ScottK, ta
[23:33] <ScottK> ogra_: We have never, ever, ever frozen the archive at feature freeze.  Why would you think we were now?
[23:33] <ScottK> robert_ancell: lightdm, right?
[23:33] <robert_ancell> ScottK, yes
[23:34] <ogra_> ScottK, we froze the queue in the past
[23:34] <cjwatson> Never for feature freeze.  ScottK is correct
[23:34] <ScottK> ogra_: Yes.  For final pre-release freeze and for Beta freezes.
[23:34] <ogra_> hm
[23:34] <ogra_> sorry for the misinfo then
[23:36] <Daviey> ogra_: As penance, maybe you could clarify this on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze :)
[23:36] <ScottK> Blocked.
[23:36]  * ScottK departs.
[23:39] <ogra_> Daviey, added a note
[23:44]  * ogra_ better goes to bed before causing more havoc


[00:33] <rick_h_> snap-l: ouch, I know my boss has issues where the mic only works if plugged in during boot
[00:39] <brousch> mic troubles?
[01:40] <jrwren> sounds like dbus is screwy
[01:49] <snap-l> Sommething
[01:50] <snap-l> seems that the hardware shows up, but not the mic device
[01:50] <snap-l> Not sure what the heck is going on
[01:50] <brousch> snap-l: sometimes it hides. i did a post on it a while ago
[01:51] <brousch> about half way down this http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2010/07/13/webcam-recording-using-vlc-on-linux/
[01:56] <_stink_> snap-l: i have something like that on lucid, too
[03:48] <greg-g> snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous
[12:21] <Wolfger> Heh... clusterbleep.net? Cute.
[12:34] <rick_h_> morning
[12:34] <Wolfger> party ;-)
[12:53] <rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/910/ top 5 xkcd ever
[12:54] <Wolfger> He should name the server Epidural...
[12:54] <Lledargo> lol, I totaly agree
[13:10] <brousch> snap-l: you've been replaced by an HTML5 app :( http://ow.ly/5eIjF
[13:13] <brousch> it does work better in FF
[13:24] <Wolfger> brousch: Are we going back to the days of "this site designed to be viewed with..."?
[13:25] <snap-l> greg-g: Need some context for that "22:47 < greg-g> snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous
[13:25] <snap-l> comment
[13:26] <brousch> Wolfger: did we ever really leave it?
[13:29] <Wolfger> brousch: I haven't seen one of those web buttons in years... Most sites at least make an attempt at supporting multiple browsers.
[13:30] <brousch> well google's guitar only worked in chrome yesterday. for drums you need FF
[13:30] <Lledargo> We were starting to get out of it. The major thing is browsers need to be developed in a manner that support a web design standard.
[13:31] <Wolfger> Google's guitar worked just fine on my FF browser
[13:31] <snap-l> brousch: I used Chrome, and got it working.
[13:31] <brousch> snap-l: the timing is off in chrome
[13:33] <snap-l> http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10100010101001110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001010101010101010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|140
[13:33] <snap-l> On mine it's worse under FF.
[13:34] <snap-l> Ah, for creating it works better under Chrome
[13:34] <snap-l> playback, it works better under FF.
[13:34] <brousch> i had no issues under FF with creation or playback
[13:34] <brousch> but i'm on osx
[13:35] <brousch> chrome playback is pretty much garbage for me
[13:35] <snap-l> No, playback works fine, just the | isn't recognized as a valid symbol for a link
[13:35] <snap-l> Well, you need to use a real OS for Chrome. ;)
[13:38] <snap-l> My name is Joey, webmaster of a number of sites and I'm currently working on promoting a number of sites you might find interesting.
[13:38] <snap-l> It concerns link exchange for our mutual benefit and long term improvement of both of our Google rankings.
[13:38] <snap-l> The purpose of my email is as follow; I am searching for sites such as openmetalcast.com to do business with because I think I can provide you with a great 3way link exchange proposal.
[13:38] <rick_h_> booh, 3 way
[13:39] <rick_h_> ooh that is
[13:39] <snap-l> Oh wow, can I get on your WebRing too?
[13:39] <snap-l> (fucking SEO spammers"
[13:41] <Wolfger> It's 90's internet all over again
[13:47] <brousch> http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10101011101010100000000000000000000000000100100000000000000000000000100000001000000000001000000010000000000000000000000000000000000100000001000101000100010001001000110000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|180
[13:47] <brousch> i could do this all day
[13:54] <brousch> hm, how would i record this? plug headphone jack into mic?
[14:07] <snap-l> brousch: You'd love Hydrogen
[14:07] <snap-l> or LMMS
[14:09] <brousch> those free?
[14:09] <snap-l> Yeah
[14:09] <brousch> are you trying to kill my whole weekend?
[14:10] <snap-l> I've also use MuSE and Rosegarden in the past, but I think LMMS is nicer, overall
[14:10] <snap-l> brousch: Muhahahaha
[14:10] <brousch> hydrogen looks nice
[14:10] <snap-l> Yeha, though it's only a drum machine
[14:10] <snap-l> but a very nice drum machine
[14:10] <Lledargo> It's not free, but FruityLoops is a nice program
[14:10] <snap-l> wish there was more integration to LMMS
[14:11] <brousch> wow, lmms looks nice too
[14:11] <snap-l> Lledargo: Not having used FruityLoops, LMMS (I'm told) is quite similar.
[14:11] <Wolfger> I liked the idea of using Rosegarden to compose music, but it never quite worked...
[14:11] <Lledargo> I have never used LMMS, but I can believe it
[14:11] <brousch> what's with this slick gui? i was expecting curses and command line
[14:11] <snap-l> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/
[14:12] <snap-l> brousch: It's my current go-to software for when I have a creative itch
[14:13] <brousch> i will pull out the old linux laptop and try it this weekend
[14:14] <Lledargo> snap-l: yeah, on their hompage LMMS says that it is an open source solution for FL studio(professional version of fruityloops)
[14:14] <snap-l> Lledargo: The only pro software I've used was Cakewalk back in the 1990s
[14:15] <snap-l> Everything else has been OSS
[14:15] <snap-l> So claims like "It's like FL" are taken with a grain of salt, like "OpenOffice replaces Microsoft Office"
[14:16] <Lledargo> think of it the other way round then, FL is a closed source solution to LMMS ;)
[14:17] <snap-l> Because there's one thing that I've learned from creative professionals; they love to abuse their tools to the point where nothing but the original will do
[14:17] <snap-l> Lledargo: WFM. ;)
[14:20] <snap-l> I think I'm going to title my MUG talk "So You've Got Natty: Successfully coping with Ubuntu's latest distribution".
[14:20] <brousch> nice
[14:22] <brousch> snap-l: i'm making you famous on the twitters
[14:23] <Milyardo> I think last time I tried LMMS it wasn't very useful without FL because it didn't come with any Sound Fonts, it was expected you'd import some from FL
[14:24] <brousch> well snap-l has more musical talent in his toenail clippings than i have in my whole body, so i think it'll be plenty powerful enough for me
[14:24] <snap-l> Um, sure.
[14:25] <snap-l> I just play drums. I have no concepts of harmony or melody.
[14:25] <brousch> lmms might be the key to getting my wife to switch to linux
[14:25] <brousch> i have no idea what the difference between harmony and melody are
[14:38] <jrwren> anyone know what happened to pam_env
[14:47]  * snap-l is getting back into bug reporting
[14:47] <rick_h_> good time :P
[14:47] <snap-l> Yeah, a thrill a minute.
[14:48] <rick_h_> working with non-linuxy people is so hard
[14:48] <rick_h_> "I can't change all that sql to lowercase, it'd take for ever!"
[14:48] <rick_h_> umm... guG
[14:48] <rick_h_> ?
[14:48] <brousch> snap-l: i'm gonna get that lmms and hydrogen working tonight. we're going to a graduation party for a kid whose into music and glee club and such so i think a bunch of his friends would like it
[14:49] <snap-l> Awesome!
[14:54] <snap-l> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that "Safely Remove Drive" wouldn't remove a drive that was currently having files copied to it
[14:57] <jrwren> you are wrong.
[14:57] <jrwren> at least in XP I think you are wrong.
[14:57] <jrwren> it would sync and unmount and the copy would fail.
[14:58] <Lledargo> I thought it stopped file transfer, not disallowed removing a drive that was doing file operations
[14:58] <Lledargo> oh, I was beat to it
[14:58] <jrwren> i haven't used "safely remove" in years :)
[15:02] <Wolfger> "safely remove" always fails for me if the drive is in use in any fashion
[15:02] <snap-l> I mean under a real OS. :)
[15:02] <snap-l> Ubuntu. ;)
[15:03] <Wolfger> Ubu-what?
[15:05] <Wolfger> Sit, Ubu, sit. Good OS.
[15:13] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0cII74YYs
[15:56] <rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation
[15:56] <rick_h_> ok, so we're entering laugh at people friday
[15:58] <Wolfger> \o/
[15:58] <snap-l> Seriously?
[15:59]  * Lledargo is laughing on the outside, but crying on the inside.
[15:59] <snap-l> I need 125 reputation so I can vote this into oblivion
[15:59] <Wolfger> ++
[16:03] <Wolfger> Hmm... Why do I no longer have an account?
[16:03] <Wolfger> I know I finally caved and got an account for AskUbuntu. I even accrued some rep
[16:04] <Wolfger> now it's saying no account at my e-mail address. :-(
[16:04] <snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation/6308219#6308219
[16:05] <snap-l> It's questions like those that make me fear for the future
[16:07] <snap-l> Unless you're reading data from a NFS share over a 28.8 modem from a server in BFE with 26 hops, and a latency of a microwave transmission to Mars, you're probably going to be fine.
[16:11] <rick_h_> but but but, think of the bits man!
[16:14] <Wolfger> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5659360/why-should-you-avoid-the-then-keyword-in-ruby
[16:15] <Wolfger> I would tend to agree...
[16:15] <Blazeix> is anyone familiar with page-rendering pipeline differences in IE9 vs chrome?
[16:15] <Wolfger> "then" is useless
[16:15]  * rick_h_ cries as he changes a user's password from gjC8kTNnP5 to Secret1
[16:16] <Blazeix> I have an app that does a full page refresh when navigating from page to page. IE9 seems to hide the fact that you're refreshing the page, since it does it so fast
[16:16] <Blazeix> chrome and ff show a nice big white page between page changes
[16:16] <rick_h_> just that IE9 is all hardware now
[16:16] <rick_h_> not sure on the actual pipeline/render changes
[16:17] <rick_h_> I think chrome/etc do hardware accelerated of bits
[16:17] <rick_h_> but I thought IE was moving all rendering to hardware?
[16:17] <Blazeix> maybe. i was wondering if it was a difference between IE9 rendering in a streaming fashion vs chrome waiting for all the content
[16:35] <snap-l> Huh... apparently my spamhaus config gor removed during my postfix upgrade
[16:35] <snap-l> Wondered why I had more spam coming through
[16:38] <snap-l> Thank you, whomever voted me up. :)
[16:50] <Wolfger> Maybe the iPad just sucks? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308784/app-store-screenshots-looks-blurry-on-ipad-whats-going-on
[16:56] <Wolfger> Hmm... Well, they spend more time coding than anything else.... ;-)  http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/82995/what-percentage-of-time-should-be-non-programming
[16:56] <Wolfger> (yes, I'm bored, why do you ask?)
[17:03] <snap-l> God, Programming.stachexchange is the worst for those navelgazing questions
[17:04] <snap-l> sorry, programmers.
[17:05] <snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/83038/qa-bugs-poor-programmers <- rick_h_, here you go.
[17:05] <rick_h_> I'm afraid to click ...
[17:05] <snap-l> I can hear the shotgun
[17:05]  * rick_h_ closes without reading any of the comments, the question was more than enough
[17:08] <Wolfger> snap-l: LOL. I was just reading that same one...
[17:09] <Wolfger> That question boiled down to "It's not my fault! Right?"
[18:17] <snap-l> Argh, JoDee just told me that Borders in Birmingham is closing
[18:17] <rick_h_> dum da dum dum!
[18:18] <brousch> thanks, rick_h_ now i have the dungeon music from mario3 in my head
[18:19] <snap-l> http://www.detnews.com/article/20110610/BIZ/106100340/1001/Borders-puts-local-stores-on-closing-list
[18:19] <snap-l> It's on notice, apparently.
[18:20] <snap-l> I hope it doesn't, but damnit, I'm getting sick of having my favorite stores close.
[18:24] <brousch> well maybe if you'd spent more money there ...
[18:26] <rick_h_> it's like church
[18:26] <rick_h_> what's the current tithe rate for a borders?
[18:27] <snap-l> I've been tithing my little ass off there.
[18:30] <jrwren> binbrain: python slots?
[18:30] <brousch> how do i distribute an app to iphone users without using the apple app store? is that even possible?
[18:30] <rick_h_> brousch: web!
[18:31] <snap-l> It's easy
[18:31] <snap-l> first everyone jailbreaks their phone
[18:31] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, way to limit the __dict__ of an object by declaring which attrib a python object will have
[18:31] <brousch> i have web, but camera integration would be better with native app
[18:31] <rick_h_> you can't then add/extend it
[18:31] <snap-l> then, they download your app, and figure out how to install
[18:31] <snap-l> voila, your app is now their #1 favorite.
[18:31] <rick_h_> but it can be about 4 or 5x memory improvement to go to a namedtuple under the hood vs a dict
[18:32] <brousch> this app is for barcampgr, so it's not like it needs to be available to the world
[18:32] <rick_h_> brousch: no side install without rooting
[18:32] <rick_h_> and doubt you'll have people rooting
[18:32] <brousch> that is so weak
[18:32] <rick_h_> no, "that is so apple"
[18:33] <brousch> i suppose if a couple other barcamps picked up the app, and i charged $2, i could make back the $99 fee
[18:34] <rick_h_> or get someone who's already paid the fee to submit it for you?
[18:34] <brousch> hm, yeah, maybe i can get someone from one of the local tech companies
[18:34] <brousch> good idea
[18:35] <binbrain> jrwren: special method __slots__ = ('var1', 'var2') allows you to limit class attributes to var1 and var2, its a performance optimizer, but often seen it used in as a way to make the class adhere as if it was limited by an interface
[18:36] <rick_h_> it's like private final or whatever
[18:36] <rick_h_> don't do it, one day someone will want/need to change things
[18:36] <binbrain> private?
[18:37] <krondor> brousch:  there's an sdk of some kind to do it, a lot of middleware phone managements solutions offer something for it.  I'm not sure how it functions maybe tied to the now defunct mobile me?
[18:37] <binbrain> I don't think it has an implications that are similar to private or final
[18:38] <brousch> krondor: i think there is some sort of enterprise app deployment thing, but it costs big $
[18:39] <binbrain> so basically, there is a developer here that likes to uses slots in all his classes. w.o any reason, ie, performance
[18:40] <krondor> brousch: no doubt
[18:44] <rick_h_> binbrain: just that it locks the class down
[18:45] <rick_h_> but yea, ugh for guys that just do that for fun
[18:46] <snap-l> Also, you have to keep submitting the $99 fee every year.
[18:50] <snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/06/dali-clock-no-longer-available-in-app-store-this-time-for-sure/
[18:54] <snap-l> I'm so glad I have a google Alert for "open metalcast"
[18:55] <snap-l> otherwise I'd miss out that Saginaw is having some metalcasting thing-a-ma-jobbie.
[18:56] <Wolfger> so informative
[18:59] <jrwren> so if i have python slots the runtime throws if I try to add a new attr that doesn't have a slot?
[19:00] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea
[19:00] <snap-l> Yay, got some CDs in the mail from one of the artists I've played on OMC.
[19:00] <jrwren> i would like that, I think :)
[19:01] <binbrain> jrwren: why
[19:01] <jrwren> its closer to static typing.
[19:01] <rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/338/
[19:02] <rick_h_> oop, did that wrong. bah I don't use it
[19:02] <jrwren> i know the attr is still dyn typed, but at least I have control over the shape of my objects.
[19:02] <snap-l> Again, it depends
[19:03] <binbrain> jrwren: I'm not sure what pretend static typing accomplishes though
[19:03] <snap-l> I can see where it would be useful to arbitrarily define variables against a class, but I can see where that might be a royal pain
[19:03] <rick_h_> feels warm/fuzzy
[19:03] <rick_h_> it's the python way
[19:03] <rick_h_> flexible
[19:04] <Wolfger> "pretend static typing"? That would be dynamic typing. That's extremely useful! :-)
[19:04] <snap-l> One way I could see it being useful is if someone did a dick-move on your class that you don't want them to do. ;)
[19:05] <binbrain> snap-l: lol
[19:10] <binbrain> snap-l: funny you put it like that, but that's in a way what it amounts to, "I don't trust the other developers so I'm going to control how the instances look like"
[19:10] <snap-l> Yeah, that's what I see as the reason for things like private, etc.
[19:11] <snap-l> sometimes justified, but more than often way too paranoid
[19:12] <binbrain> I have no problem with conventions like underscore in Python _private_var
[19:12]  * Wolfger ponders "more than often"
[19:14] <snap-l> binbrain: I don't either.  Or "Monty test".
[19:56] <Wolfger> circus test, even
[19:57] <brousch> flask is fun
[20:02] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha, I love it when the guy that doesn't want postgres because he's afraid of change goes "but but but...I neeed this very hard thing..."
 Next!"
[20:03] <snap-l> you know, I was reluctant to change to PostgreSQL
[20:03] <snap-l> it was just just different enough
[20:03] <snap-l> but I'm glad I made the switch. Now it feels like I have a real database on my machine
[20:03] <rick_h_> man, I just whipped our arrays on him.  They've corrupted the whole db twice in trying to dev the thing
[20:04] <snap-l> ugh
[20:05] <rick_h_> my boss is starting to get impressed and convinced so I'm starting to feel cracks in the anti-change postgres wall
[20:05] <snap-l> InnoDB is very fragile
[20:05] <snap-l> Not MongoDB fragile, but still fragine
[20:05] <snap-l> fragile, even
[20:05] <rick_h_> lol
[20:40] <jrwren> binbrain: it lets me fail faster, rather than keep running if something that was supposed to work isn't working.
[20:40] <jrwren> e.g. the fat fingered attr setter invokation
[20:47] <binbrain> I never have problems with fat fingering, I use pyflakes
[20:48] <binbrain> failure is quickly identified during test time
[20:48] <jrwren> what is that?
[20:48] <rick_h_> highlights vars that don't belong. Never used before, etc
[20:48] <jrwren> cool
[20:49] <rick_h_> helps with the typos since you say foo = barz and barz is highlighted as never init'd before
[20:50] <snap-l> Yeah, pyflakes is awesome.
[20:50] <snap-l> It catches a lot of dingbat mistakes.
[21:11] <snap-l> http://fukung.net/v/40275/c56601f86f88fd4d33082916056904f6.gif
[21:17] <devinheitmueller> rick_h_: do you have any idea what the topic is for next week's MUG?
[21:18] <devinheitmueller> nevermind.
[21:20] <greg-g> snap-l: sorry, was away most of today.