[00:01] <m4v> ubuntu also got a lot more user friendly these few years, problems like compiling nvdia drivers or getting compiz to work aren't frequent anymore :P
[00:04] <persia> I guess I shouldn't have said "difficult" problems, but perhaps just uncommon ones.
[00:04] <persia> The idea being to demonstrate that someone knows the system really well, rather than just repeating advice seen elsewhere.
[00:04] <persia> It's not critical, but I grant extra weight to people providing support who seem to have that (and assume others do as well)
[00:08] <leche> persia: i updated my page but support is in german, i dont know if the council can see what we talk about
[00:09] <persia> EMEA council has at least some folk who read German
[00:11] <leche> good, so, now i need to get some people tell some stuff about me and then i will apply :)
[01:22] <GPenguin> for those who care to read my german mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-de/2010-March/019860.html
[03:37] <IdleOne> Can I request that everybody check the factoid for your respective languages and please include the " /join #ubuntu-** " so that new users have an easier time joining the channels. Thank you :-)
[03:38] <IdleOne> I think it will make it much easier for new users to Ubuntu and irc to find the help they need quicker
[03:41] <IdleOne> Oh and feel free to submit any edits for other languages also.
[07:17] <leche> this post on the mailinglist seems to be well done
[07:19] <MenZa> leche: Which one?
[07:19] <leche> MenZa: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-de/2010-March/019860.html
[07:20] <leche> (from GPenguin)
[07:20] <GPenguin> leche: you are not ironic?
[07:22] <leche> GPenguin: no, im not
[07:22] <leche> GPenguin: its written in a respectful language.
[07:22] <leche> why should i? seems to be a good start for a conversation
[07:23] <leche> waaaaaaaaaaay better than your last 2 attempts
[07:24] <leche> ( i say seems cause im in a hurry and and just overflew it)
[07:24] <leche> will read it completly later.
[07:24] <leche> bb
[07:27] <Myrtti> meh, google translate refuses that page
[07:27] <leche> :/
[07:28] <GPenguin> Myrtti: maybe its not properly formatted in html, it was all a quick hack
[07:29] <Myrtti> no, it just refuses
[07:29] <Myrtti> lessee if babelfish succeeds
[07:30] <GPenguin> when enough people care within the german community, then i can try to put an english version together as soon as i ran some errands
[07:31] <Myrtti> oh, but you seem to be building your own community. How disappointing. If you had presented your issue with the same eloquence here as you did in that email, perhaps the mediation last night would have actually succeeded better
[07:33] <Myrtti> building the community from the inside and fixing the problems usually works better than cutting the community in pieces.
[07:33] <Myrtti> oh well.
[07:35] <GPenguin> well, no. i am not forking the community
[07:36] <GPenguin> look at it as some kind of development team that is still launchpad'ing
[07:37] <GPenguin> i did that to avoid, that people on #ubuntu-de are afraid of my ideas. so i can tell them "nothing changes if you dont like"
[07:43] <MenZa> GPenguin: Definitely a step-up from your behaviour yesterday.   This discussion is over.
[08:32] <GPenguin> indeed, when people join teams for the sake of power and the ability to kick asses, then nobody can help but a community fork
[08:33] <MenZa> I already outlined yesterday that that is not the case.
[14:40] <Tm_T> jussi01: ^
[14:41] <Pici> vish: odd.  I'll throw you in the team then.
[14:42] <vish> Pici: ty :)
[14:42] <Pici> vish: All set.
[14:42] <vish> thanks all..
[14:43] <Pici> Thank you.
[18:35] <leche> hmm, some people say they dont get a message from locobot (that the channel is logged)
[18:35] <leche> any ideas?
[18:38] <Pici> leche: Are the locobots supposed to pm people?  For the regular channels we use an entrymsg to let people know that the channel is logged.
[18:39] <leche> i meant entrymsg, yes
[18:39] <Pici> in #ubuntu-de?
[18:39] <leche> yes
[18:39] <leche> i get the message
[18:41] <Pici> I got the message from the locobot, but the channel's entrymsg only has information about pasting and offtopic.
[18:42] <Pici> I wonder if people are not seeing the message because its a notice rather than a privmsg though,.
[18:43] <leche> yes, im asking myself the same, they say theyve looked at all those things
[18:44] <ninnnu> Do they get the entrymsgs?
[18:45] <ninnnu> Because they're notices, too..
[18:45] <Pici> Or you could try sending them a /notice with your own client to see if they get it
[18:47] <leche> he sees my /notice
[18:47] <leche> and the chanserv notice
[18:47] <leche> but not the locobot /notice :D
[18:48] <jussi01> heh
[18:48] <leche> well, we will put a hin into the topic
[18:48] <leche> hint though
[18:49] <leche> or to the entrymsg of chanserv


[02:00] <Thr0r> Hello! First of all I must say that I am very very happy and satisfied whith Kubuntu. The only thing I miss is the ability for Korganizer to use/connect to the Ubuntu notification system? I Have to use Orage - it's Ok but Korganizer is such a much better Calendar? Anyone? ..I have tried alot to get Korganizer to work properly..
[02:14] <Thr0r> Kernel: 5.3.0-53-generic x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.16.5
[02:14] <Thr0r>            Distro: Ubuntu 19.10 (Eoan Ermine)
[02:21] <Thr0r> 319 nicks logged in - and One op. No-one replies? Come on..
 yo
[04:19] <professor_mad_do> hello i just installed brave by snap now i dont have my mouse cursor theme over the brave browser how can i solved that?
[04:39] <jmv2> sherk is love
[04:40] <jmv2> sherk is life
[06:55] <user|94839> How to lock folder in kubuntu 20.04 os
[08:42] <NiroxSDV> Hello.
[08:42] <NiroxSDV> Kubuntu 20.04 on Thinkpad X260 does the fingerprint login work correctly. Up-to-date information on the forums could not find, tell me where to look?
 I just upgraded my main machine from Eoan to Fossa - and it wiped off Korganizer, Kaddressbook and Kmail! 🤬
 The installer marked them for upgrade! 😡
 That's sad :(
 What should you do now? Reinstall them manually!
 Yeah - it is just a hassle. That'll take me an hour probably! 😖
 I feel you
 Do you know a way to suspend the system by terminal? I use shutdown now to power off but I would like to use another command to suspend it
 Oh, sweet! Kmail is re-installed and is not wiped! 😌
 @Franzpow, No, sorry!
 Korg & Kadd all good too!  I had to re-install Cantata and will not connect to my library now despite correct path! ??
 I thought that the default player now is Elise
 @Franzpow, Yeah, but it is not featured enough and half the buttons are invisible under a dark theme. I love Cantata! It is refusing to connect to the directory though! Argh!
 Ok, I figured it out! The upgrade removed MPD as well! All good now!
[11:15] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[11:43] <IrcsomeBot1> HorseMiguel was added by: HorseMiguel
 Good morning!
 Thinkpad T495s with fresh install of Kubuntu 20.04
 If I try to boot without plugin the charger I get this
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Z24jzKjJ/file_29699.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Bqaz025w/file_29700.jpg
 A weird grey desktop, with everything working in behind
 If I boot plugged in, it launchs desktop perfectly, I can suspend and resume
 Any idea?
[11:46] <BluesKaj> battery becoming defective perhaps
 But laptop is about 2 months old
 And works perfectly under full load
 In kern.log, when this happens, I see a lot of amdgpu errors
 May 16 13:22:14 medusa kernel: [   31.199582] AMD-Vi: Event logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT device=05:00.0 domain=0x0000 address=0x39ca1b660 flags=0x0070] … May 16 13:22:15 medusa kernel: [   31.701216] [drm] Fence fallback timer expired on ring sdma0 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201329] gmc_v9_0_process_interrupt: 115001 callbacks suppressed … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201339] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0: [gfxhub0] re
[11:55] <IrcsomeBot1> page fault (src_id:0 ring:0 vmid:2 pasid:32769, for process Xorg pid 1358 thread Xorg:cs0 pid 1371) … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201345] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:   in page starting at address 0x0000800101a32000 from client 27 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201349] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0: VM_L2_PROTECTION_FAULT_STATUS:0x00201031 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201352] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:       MORE_FAULTS: 0x1 … Ma
[11:55] <IrcsomeBot1> 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201354] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:       WALKER_ERROR: 0x0 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201357] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:       PERMISSION_FAULTS: 0x3 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201359] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:       MAPPING_ERROR: 0x0 … May 16 13:22:19 medusa kernel: [   36.201361] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0:       RW: 0x0
[11:58] <BluesKaj> looks like a hardware problem with the battery not delivering power properly to the gpu or some such
[12:18] <BluesKaj> medusa kernel, what's that ?
 Medusa is hostname
 Rest is kern.log output
 @BluesKaj, Ok, I'll try to investigate this, thank you
 First I'll full charge battery, since I was always trying about 50% of charge
[12:23] <BluesKaj> 50% charge should still work properly
 Charged battery to 100%, and now boots up perfectly
[14:07] <BluesKaj> perhaps the battery charge sensor is giving inaccurate readings below a certain point
 @marco-parillo, Yeah
[22:21] <Xavi92> I did `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:saiarcot895/flightgear-edge` on focal, but `flightgear` package version `1:2020.2.0~14447+git85d2a15e3-0ubuntu1~ppa1~20.04.1 ` is not showing up on `apt list flightgear` even if listed here https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/ubuntu/flightgear-edge?field.series_filter=focal
[22:25] <piero> buonasera
[22:26] <Xavi92> Needless to say I did `sudo apt update` afterwards
[22:26] <oerheks> Xavi92, see description, unstable, so contact the maintainer? or use the stable ppa https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/flightgear
[22:28] <Xavi92> oerheks: does not show up either using `ppa:saiarcot895/flightgear`
[22:28] <oerheks> Xavi92, or if you want the edge version, see https://snapcraft.io/flightgear
[22:29] <oerheks> if it doen not show up, then there is something wrong on your side or the moirror..
[22:29] <oerheks> c/mirror


[06:04] <mistform> how do I get an SD card out of read-only?
[06:04] <mistform> I tried the slider on the adapter (I'm formatting microSD for raspberry pi)
[06:04] <mistform> it is still read-only
[08:06] <joegiampaoli> trying to hide "suspend" option. In Debian this is done by editing </usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.upower.policy> No such file in xubuntu...
[08:08] <joegiampaoli> I tried editing </usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.xfce.power.policy> without success
[12:58] <CrackedCracker> Hello. Could any of you help me find thunar's smb saved credentials?
[12:58] <CrackedCracker> I by accident put "remember forever" while browsing smb through thunar and now can't get rid of that login
[12:58] <CrackedCracker> It doesn't appear to be in ~/.config, and I can't find anything relevant to smb in /etc/ and /usr/share
[13:07] <flocculant> CrackedCracker: try using seahorse - you'll probably need to install it
[13:10] <CrackedCracker> flocculant: Thanks for the help
[13:10] <CrackedCracker> I was asking how to simply delete those saved already, can't see how seahorse would help me
[13:11] <CrackedCracker> Oh, wait, i see. I'll try now
[13:11] <flocculant> because thunar doesn't keep them afaik - it's all part of the gnome keyring - use seahorse to access them, find the one you need to delete and should be it
[13:13] <CrackedCracker> Thanks, sorry for that first reply, i am installing it now
[13:13] <CrackedCracker> flocculant: Yep, there it is. Thank you very much
[13:18] <flocculant> welcome :)
[13:52] <xubuntu80i> hey there
[14:04] <xubuntu18w> we currently have a 32 bit os and are looking for a 64 bit os plus grub for partitioning. don't know to much about all this still learning. can someone please help and also need to know if it can be loaded to a thumb drive since at the moment we do not have a working burner.
[14:08] <flocculant> xubuntu18w: yup - can be installed from usb. Grub is a bootloaded nothing to do with partitioning - https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/install-ubuntu-desktop
[14:09] <flocculant> you'd just see slightlydifferent things - xubuntu instead of ubuntu
[14:22] <xubuntu18w> Thank you flocculant .
[14:25] <xubuntu18w> do you know what size usb I will need to load it on
[14:32] <flocculant> xubuntu18w: iso is ~1.3Gb
[14:33] <flocculant> or a bit less
[14:34] <xubuntu18w> ok thank you.
[14:38] <flocculant> xubuntu18w: when installing and at the partition stage - Erase Disk and install - will do that exactly - ALL of the disk.
[14:39] <xubuntu18w> thank you, don't want to erase just partition. will be careful when selecting
[14:43] <flocculant> :)
[14:44] <flocculant> just warning before you come back later wondering where you're really important data that you don't backup is gone :D
[14:44] <flocculant> cos people do that stuff ;)
[22:15] <randy_> Hi there, I was wondering if someone could help me with an issue I am having?
[22:15] <randy_> Everytime I try to watch a YouTube video my mouse and keyboard stop working after about 5 seconds.


[10:48] <Keybuk> right, but that means you can safely remove libgconf2-4 as long as you don't remove gconf2
[10:48] <ogra> i try to update the metapackages and dont want to rip ports out...
[10:48] <lamont> ogra: see ~lamont/bin/fetchPackages on rookery... :-)
[10:48] <Keybuk> uh, no it doesn't
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: it looks cleared out no
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: now
[10:49] <lamont> ogra: that was my answer to the split world and its issues...
[10:49] <ogra> hmm, 404
[10:49] <lamont> ogra: ssh
[10:49] <ogra> oh, ok
[10:49] <Keybuk> duh
[10:49] <Keybuk> it's not A dep B dep C
[10:50] <Keybuk> it's A dep B dep C dep B dep C dep B...
[10:50] <lamont> neato!
[10:50] <Keybuk> libgconf2-4 depends on gconf2 which depends on libgconf2-4
[10:50] <lamont> so it has to pick one, and picks 'shoot libgsf-1'
[10:50] <Keybuk> so which one of those gets removed first is so random you can use it for high-level cryptography
[10:51] <Keybuk> and to answer the question, yes Depends should be installed at the point of prerm
[10:51] <lamont> Keybuk: OK.  not a dpkg bug.  you may go back to sleep.  seb128 fix libgsf-1 please.  kthxbye
[10:51] <Keybuk> libgsf-1 needs to depend libgconf2-4
[10:51] <seb128> yeah
[10:52] <Keybuk> hmm, yet again I'm considering adding a kettle to my office
[10:52] <Keybuk> this is bad
[10:53] <Kamion> mdz: certainly no backtrace or anything in cron.daily's output
[10:54] <Riddell> mdz: me and \sh would like to propose uploading amarok 1.3.2, it adds back alsasink which a lot of people have been missing
[10:55] <mdz> Kamion: elmo has unidled since I SMSed
[10:55] <mdz> perhaps he fixed it
[10:55] <mdz> Riddell: what else?
[10:55] <mdz> Riddell: a changelog via email would be best
[10:56] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[10:56] <\sh> Riddell: i'll send it to mdz
[10:58] <\sh> send
[10:58] <Riddell> \sh: thanks
[10:59] <\sh> mdz: add to the changelog of upstream -> added patch to make alsa the default gst output (JRiddel)
[10:59] <sivang> hmm, where is the device manager gone form the system menu..
[11:00] <mdz> \sh: er, so the patch and 1.3.2 are orthogonal?
[11:01] <\sh> mdz: sorry...I declared it not correctly: the patch from riddell is only ubuntu specific ( gst config file patch)
[11:02] <mdz> \sh: then what is the justification for 1.3.2, since presumably the patch applies just as well to 1.3.1?
[11:03] <crimsun> 1.3.2 finally fixes the gstreamer engine's alsasink
[11:03] <\sh> mdz: no...1.3.1 doesn't have alsaink
[11:03] <Riddell> mdz: alsalink was removed from 1.3.1 because of instability, it's been fixed up and put back in 1.3.2
[11:03] <Riddell> alsasink
[11:16] <lamont> ogra/riddell: thanks for the kdelibs fix
[11:17] <sivang> pitti: what do you think about workarounding #6224 by making g-c-m listen to hal event of new printer, and then restarting cups like we do it in the IPP browsing patch? (not ideal, but shoudl work)
[11:17] <ogra> lamont, me ??
[11:17] <lamont> whoever uploaded kdelis
[11:17] <lamont> libs even
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: that sounds hackish - we should not need to restart cups at all
[11:17] <\sh> can someone fix evolution, so it's responding _every_ time when I need it
[11:17] <\sh> just removed a search and it's not responding anymore...
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: and g-c-m is not dbus'ified, that would be intrusive
[11:18] <\sh> no crash...
[11:18] <sivang> pitti: noted
[11:18] <pitti> sivang: if at all, cups itself should be made hal-aware
[11:18] <pitti> sivang: then cups can call its printer initialization again, or so, without restarting completely
[11:19] <lamont> ogra: and Riddell was the one who uploaded kdelibs
[11:19] <Riddell> lamont: does it compile now?
[11:19] <pitti> sivang: but dbus is too heavy for the breezy version now; merely sending it a signal should be enough
[11:19] <lamont> yeah - just freed a metric ton of dep-waited stuff
[11:19] <Riddell> groovy
[11:19] <lamont> (which is to say, installed.)
[11:20] <Riddell> lamont: that's metric tonne :)
[11:20] <ogra> lamont, yup... i only touch kdeedu or scribus, no other QT apps get near me :)
[11:20] <lamont> Riddell: well, there are other more colorful terms for it.
[11:21] <lamont> 429 packages needs-build on hppa now.  thanks
[11:22] <Riddell> lamont: I'll try and keep an eye on that for what still fails, poke me if I don't
[11:23] <lamont> Riddell: ok.  remember that hppa isn't exactly release critical... nor does either hppa user use kde, AFAIK
[11:24] <Riddell> yep
[11:25] <lamont> Kamion: compressing now, should be semi-soonish for my grumbling
[11:28] <lamont> checking for gcc... no
[11:28] <lamont> hrm... gonna have to look at that one
[11:28] <Kamion> score
[11:28] <Kamion> PATH=/nonexistent ./configure
[11:28] <Keybuk> mdz: is debzilla actually working?  I added debXXXXXXX as the alias to a bug and never got the deb comments
[11:29] <lamont> Kamion: actually, um, apt-get install build-essential should do the trick.
[11:29] <mdz> Keybuk: no
[11:29] <mdz> httplib.BadStatusLine
[11:29] <Keybuk> ahh
[11:29] <mdz> when trying to talk to Bugzilla
[11:30] <Keybuk> which does remind me
[11:30] <Keybuk> elmo: bugzilla cert expires in a week or two
[11:30] <Keybuk> and $internal has already expired
[11:30] <mdz> I wonder what it's pissed off about
[11:30] <mdz> debzilla hasn't changed in ages
[11:31] <Keybuk> I'll take a look, if you want
[11:31] <mdz> did macquarie get upgraded or something?
[11:31] <mdz> Keybuk: if you could
[11:31] <mdz> I think I'm going to go lay down
[11:31] <Keybuk> hope you feel better soon
[11:31] <mdz> thanks
[11:31] <pitti> mdz: get well soon!
[11:32] <ogra> mdz, good decision, get well ...
[11:33] <Kamion> lamont: hey, that worked
[11:33] <Kamion> (royal)
[11:34] <Kamion> go figure
[11:34] <sivang> pitti: you mean sending a singal to cups / g-c-m ?
[11:34] <lamont> hrm... do we want new kubuntu livecd rootfs for ppc?
[11:34] <lamont> Kamion: ?
[11:34] <lamont> or should I kill that?
[11:35] <pitti> sivang: to cups, like a SIGHUP or so, which causes it to reload
[11:35] <sivang> pitti: sure then, but we need to make g-c-m aware of that a new printer was added, and then SIGHUP cupsd
[11:35] <Kamion> lamont: don't care personally, although Kubuntu's last powerpc livefs was likewise 20050920 which is a bit old
[11:36] <pitti> sivang: no, that should be done by a hotplug script, which also has the necessary privileges to signal cups (g-c-m can't)
[11:36] <Kamion> but if you'd rather have royal's cycles doing other things, that's fine too
[11:36] <Kamion> c'mon, kernel, BUILD
[11:38] <\sh> hmmm..when are the install cds ready with the new kernel upload? (especially the installer boot kernel)
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: it'll do another build in the near future
[11:38] <sivang> pitti: k, thanks, I'll check it out
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: which kernels are you waiting for?
[11:39] <pitti> sivang: that would rock; I think a hotplug script is relatively safe and unintrusive
[11:39] <pitti> ok, good night everybody
[11:40] <Kamion> lamont: 2.6.12-9.14, all arches. I've just newed amd64
[11:41] <Kamion> unfortunately my ADSL will cut out in a little over three hours, and it's very unlikely I'll be done before then
[11:41] <Kamion> cannae change the laws of physics
[11:42] <Keybuk> that's today
[11:42] <Keybuk> you mean -23
[11:42] <Kamion> Keybuk: thanks. it's late :-/
[11:42] <Kamion> ENOBRAIN
[11:43] <Keybuk> I suggest bed for you too
[11:43] <mvo> rather ESLEEPY :)
[11:43] <lamont> yep.  having a compiler definitely helps with building stuff
[11:43] <Keybuk> lamont: ya think? :p
[11:43] <\sh> Kamion: so .15 will hit the isos of -24? or late -23?
[11:43] <Kamion> \sh: .15? eh?
[11:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: we'll see ... at least I don't feel unwell
[11:43] <\sh> Kamion: new benc upload from today
[11:44] <Kamion> \sh: 'tis .14
[11:44] <sivang> lamont: you can enter OP codes instead no? :-D
[11:44] <\sh> should be .15?
[11:44] <lamont> sivang: not for everything.
[11:44] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~/queue/new$ sudo -u katie ~/katie/lisa linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-9.14_amd64.changes
[11:44] <Kamion> jackass disagrees with you :P
[11:44] <\sh>  2.6.12-9.14 ????
[11:44] <lamont> \sh: yes
[11:45] <Kamion> \sh: I'm not going to get into giving CD image publication schedules for pre-Colony experimentation; it'll be done when it's done
[11:45] <\sh> oh it's late
[11:45] <lamont> Kamion: binaries are all in the overrides, yes?
[11:45] <Kamion> the sooner the better ...
[11:45] <Kamion> lamont: no
[11:45] <lamont> ah, ok
[11:45] <lamont> who's still building, fwiw?
[11:46] <\sh> so i can get the sk98lin to test .. wow
[11:46] <Kamion> lamont: I've only seen amd64 uploaded so far
[11:48] <lamont> i386 is still building docs.
[11:48] <lamont> ppc is packaging debs
[11:48] <lamont> ia64 (should anyone care), is ~50 % done
[11:49] <ogra> lamont, what became of TBone (while you talk about ia64) ?
[11:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: anyway, I'm in bed, with laptop ;-)
[11:49] <Keybuk> ...
[11:50] <Kamion> wireless++
[11:50] <Kamion> 22:43 < Keybuk> I suggest bed for you too
[11:50] <Kamion> (in case that seemed overly random)
[11:50] <Keybuk> I saw a quote on bash.org the other day, "wireless means never having to say 'Going to the loo'"
[11:50] <Keybuk> and I thought of sabdfl
[11:51] <ogra> Keybuk, he has a wireless loo ?
[11:51] <sivang> \sh: what's that sk98lin ?
[11:52] <Keybuk> ogra: there's wireless signal in the loo of the Canonical office
[11:52] <Keybuk> and he uses it to great advantage :-/
[11:52] <ogra> heh, yes here too :)
[11:52] <sivang> Keybuk: what;s the loo' ?
[11:52] <ogra> whats wrong with that, you save a lot of newspaper space in your toilet :)
[11:53] <\sh> sivang: marvel yukon2 drivers ... (sky2 is the name of original linux drivers, sk98lin are the syskonnect drivers for this NIC)
[11:53] <sivang> uh ha
[11:53] <sivang> \sh: wireless NIC?
[11:53] <\sh> sivang: no..wired
[11:53] <sivang> ogra: true :)
[11:53] <\sh> sivang: but it means to me, that I can netboot the portege r200 without tweaking the installer initrd ;)
[11:53] <sivang> Keybuk: I wouldn't touch his kbd afterwards though :-D
[11:54] <sivang> \sh: :-)
[11:54] <sivang> \sh: use it as a thin client or plain net boot for fun?
[11:54] <\sh> and I can stop tweaking the modules dir of the running system
[11:54] <\sh> sivang: the r200 is a slim device without a cd/dvd drive ;)
[11:54] <sivang> \sh: cool
[11:55] <\sh> sivang: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/74-Ubuntu-Laptop-Testing.html
[11:55] <mvo> Kamion: todays daily i386-install looks good (just FYI)
[11:56] <Kamion> mvo: thanks
[11:56] <Kamion> sadly lots of testing will be invalidated by the kernel change
[11:56] <sivang> \sh: nice!
[11:58] <CarlFK> Kamion - how many hours till the changes are "up"?
[11:58] <Kamion> CarlFK: not answering questions of that form I'm afraid
[11:58] <\sh> Kamion: but as a positiv reaction: since august 05 breezy become mature and supports now more small little goddies then I ever expected in this short timeframe..kernel/laptop/installer-devels: your work was/is/will be fantastic
[11:58] <Kamion> it'll be ready when it's ready :-)
[11:59] <\sh> s/become/became/
[11:59] <Kamion> \sh: thanks :)
[11:59] <Kamion> ah, there's powerpc
[11:59] <CarlFK> ah - I thought you ment some changes had been made that were waiting for a cron job to post them to daily
[11:59] <lamont> dbus built.  /me hugs Riddell
[11:59] <\sh> Kamion: actually, I was quite surprised to see a running bluetooth stack on this canonical laptop..or that, after all discussions, the sk98lin driver finally made it into the kernel
[11:59] <\sh> Kamion: rock
[12:00] <Kamion> CarlFK: nah, they're working their way through build jobs
[12:00] <Kamion> CarlFK: cron.daily runs every 30 minutes, *:03 and *:33
[12:00] <Kamion> (that's on the archive maintenance machine)
[12:00] <CarlFK> thats not daily at all ;)
[12:00] <Kamion> indeed - it's daily in Debian, hence the naming
[12:01] <CarlFK> should be called breezy/asfastaswecan
[12:01] <Kamion> it'll be a while before stuff makes it to cdimage though, and my ADSL currently cuts out at 1am (two hours' time) so I'm kinda screwed


[08:10] <seb128> RAOF, bdmurray, SRUteam, could someone review the gnome-shell stack SRUs in the focal queue? it has several fixes for rough edges in the LTS desktop, the updates are not trivial but GNOME bugfixes ones, would be nice to see those accepted :-)
[10:48] <juliank> didrocks: i recently had this crazy idea - given that zsys snapshots the system before you upgrade stuff, why don't we just turn off some consistency features in apt and dpkg on such systems, as you can just reboot and revert if stuff fails
[10:48] <juliank> like all the fsync stuff
[11:59] <paride> rbasak, all good with the git-ubuntu build, right?
[12:02] <rbasak> paride: yes, thanks. I have a built snap, just sorting out the release announcement etc
[12:17] <didrocks> juliank: that would be excellent! The idea is also to offer offline upgrade in the long term, but meanwhile, this is a good improvements for our users
[12:20] <juliank> didrocks: Also makes me wonder if you want to setup boot so that if you have a crash during apt run, it automatically restores to the working state from before you ran apt
[12:21] <juliank> so that you get online upgrades but with an offline upgrade like feel if the machine resets during an upgrade
[12:21] <juliank> #safety
[12:22] <juliank> "Your system rebooted in the middle of package operations, do you want to continue with the possibly broken system or revert to the last known-good state?"
[12:27] <didrocks> juliank: good idea, something to file a bug against and see how we can instruct grub doing that. Just file it against the zsys github project so that we don’t forget about it
[12:27] <juliank> ack
[12:48] <Teduardo> Hello, does anyone have any idea why autoinstaller's default storage schema is to create a 100% VG on the first disk but then only use 1% of that VG for the filesystem?
[12:49] <Teduardo> I tried asking ubuntu-installer folks but I can't seem to get ahold of any of them.
[12:57] <ubusr> Is there any ETA on fixing ubuntu 18.04 and 16.04 "file/libmagic" packages to fix the ELF parsing bug ?
[12:59] <rbasak> Do you have a bug reference?
[13:00] <ubusr> nop
[13:00] <rbasak> Then presumably there is no ETA.
[13:00] <ubusr> :/  I can rereport it here if anyone is intrested
[13:00] <rbasak> If you want to track progress, I suggest that you find the existing bug there is one, or file one if there isn't.
[13:01] <ubusr> how can I track when the bug was introduced ?
[13:01] <ubusr> something likt git bisect, where I can rollback the file package till the bug stops ?
[13:01] <seb128> ubusr, is there a bug open about that issue? you mention it as it was a known problem
[13:02] <rbasak> ubusr: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+publishinghistory might be helpful, assuming the root cause was actually in that package.
[13:02] <ubusr> seb128: ahh, I typed it yesterday here :/ , not sure if there is an open bug, but in the last few month, the file program started truncating the interpreter path of ELF binaries in the output
[13:02] <ubusr> (atleast in docker environments)
[13:03] <rbasak> Please don't assume that mentioning a problem in this channel is sufficient. If there isn't a bug filed, you can't assume there will be any progress.
[13:03] <ubusr> would be glad if someone can do it, I hate keeping track of yet one more password leak :/
[13:03] <seb128> ubusr, I don't think you described enough what the issue is for anyone to be able to open a report for you
[13:03] <seb128> do you have a testcase?
[13:04] <rbasak> I'm against doing it. A bug report isn't the end of the story. If developers can't communicate with the people actually affected bugs can often stall.
[13:04] <ubusr> basically if you run docker (maybe regular one as well) ubuntu 18.04 and 16.04 and install the "file" package, and run file /bin/bash this si the output
[13:04] <rbasak> If you want it fixed, please at least file a complete bug report yourself.
[13:04] <ubusr>  /bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/l, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, BuildID[sha1]=12f73d7a8e226c663034529c8dd20efec22dde54, stripped
[13:05] <ubusr> you can see the interpreter is truncated there (/lib64/l) on ubuntu 20.04 docker it's not truncated, and I'm sure that about 6 month ago, it wasn't on 16.04 as well
[13:05] <ubusr> so somewhere along the line something changed in previous ubutnu versions
[13:09] <seb128> ubusr, there is already a report on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+bug/1835596
[13:11] <ubusr> hmm... 16 month ago it worked ok
[13:12] <cjwatson> Introduced as part of a security fix
[13:12] <cjwatson> E.g. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/414997700/file_1%3A5.25-2ubuntu1.1_1%3A5.25-2ubuntu1.2.diff.gz
[13:12] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/1:5.25-2ubuntu1.2
[13:12] <seb128> ah, cjwatson beat me to it
[13:13] <seb128> mdeslaur, ^ fyi
[13:13] <ubusr> nice, thanks for the info, will it ever be fixed :/  I had a script that dependend on the correct output
[13:14] <mdeslaur> thanks cjwatson seb128
[13:14] <seb128> ubusr, now that you raised it probably
[13:14] <mdeslaur> ubusr: yes, I'll handle it, I wasn't aware of it
[13:15] <ubusr> cool, thanks
[13:16] <ubusr> btw, how come in 20.04 it's ok ?
[13:16] <mdeslaur> thanks ubusr
[13:17] <cjwatson> I presume the regression was fixed upstream a bit later but that fix didn't make it back into security updates for older series
[13:19] <cjwatson> Hm
[13:19] <cjwatson> Or maybe a bad backport
[13:22] <cjwatson> Yep, bad backport
[13:22] <cjwatson> https://github.com/file/file/commit/9109a696f3289ba00eaa222fd432755ec4287e28 changed interp in that function from being a const char * to a char[]
[13:22] <cjwatson> Which changes what sizeof(interp) means
[13:23] <mdeslaur> yes, it's a bad backport
[13:23] <cjwatson> So the code was correct when committed to upstream file, but when backported it needed to be changed to um strlen(interp) + 1 or something
[13:34] <mdeslaur> ubusr: I'll publish the regression fix tomorrow or thursday
[13:35] <seb128> ubusr, thanks for raising the issue
[13:35] <seb128> mdeslaur, and thanks for taking on fixing it :)
[13:37] <mdeslaur> I broke it, I get to glue the pieces back together :)
[14:48] <rbasak> cpaelzer, waveform, ahasenack: FYI, I'm going to reimport and force push branches for u-boot, qemu, chrony, gpsd and squid soon. Previous bugs are fixed, so hopefully this will be the final time - take 2.
[14:48] <ahasenack> rbasak: ok
[14:48] <waveform> rbasak, no prob
[14:48] <ahasenack> sergiodj: ^ about squid
[14:50] <sergiodj> ahasenack: thanks
[15:34] <ubusr> seb128: if you want to see how I "found" the issue https://github.com/tzickel/docker-trim/issues/1
[15:35] <ubusr> took me time to understand that report was because ubuntu 16.04's file truncated it
[15:36] <ubusr> https://github.com/tzickel/docker-trim/blob/master/Dockerfile.get_instrumentation <-- is there a better way to get a static version of file to work ?
[15:53] <rbalint> ddstreet, i need to rewrite the ubuntu-groovy because the reverts are still needed, please rebase your branches if you have anything in flight
[15:54] <rbalint> ddstreet, i'm about to upload the queued fixes to groovy + the lxd tests to let them being srud and will try dropping the reverts again
[16:10] <ddstreet> rbalint ack thanks, i dont think i have anything outstanding for g but i'll rebase if so
[16:39] <rbasak> cpaelzer, ahasenack, sergiodj: reimports of squid, chrony and gpsd are cmoplete.
[16:39] <rbasak> u-boot and qemu are still going
[16:39] <ahasenack> ok
[16:40] <sergiodj> rbasak: thanks
[20:10] <rbasak> waveform: u-boot reimport is done


[01:43] <cjohnston> dieki: today is a US holiday so he may be off
[03:25] <MTecknology> cjohnston: the messed up thing is... it's not
[03:26] <MTecknology> cjohnston: the holiday is on sunday - but the US decides, "hey, we don't get time off if it's a sunday, that's not fair"
[04:24] <cjohnston> MTecknology: i dont disagree.. considering i work christmas day
[04:25] <cjohnston> but the US has decided that there are certain holidays that will be considered holidays, and if the day happens to be a weekend, a different day will be designated
[04:26] <MTecknology> which is nearly every one of them that falls on a weekend..
[14:28] <newz2000> hey all, I'm back
[14:28] <newz2000> had a wonderful holiday. ;-)
[14:31] <MTeck> newz2000: cool, mine had too much work
[14:32] <newz2000> MTeck: work = your job or work as in stuff you've been needing a weekend to do?
[14:32] <MTeck> job
[14:32] <newz2000> ah, bummer
[14:32] <newz2000> I know some postal carriers who hate long weekends. Apparently they get a big backlog to deal with.
[14:33] <newz2000> And I think they had Sat and Mon off, so it was a long long weekend
[14:54]  * popey gently tickles newz2000 with bug 585940
[14:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585940 in ubuntu-website "Text reads "not recommended" for 64-bit (affects: 41) (heat: 209)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585940
[14:55] <newz2000> popey: I will look at the bug again but I'm pretty sure that's a "won't fix." (for desktop)
[14:55] <popey> can you provide a rationale for that?
[14:56] <newz2000> I've asked around and heard confirmation that for many mainstream desktop users, 64b will not provide as user-friendly experience as 32b. Flash being cited as a major contributor to that issue.
[14:56] <newz2000> most recently confirmed by cjwatson, whose opinion I hold in high regard
[14:58] <popey> well, there's two issues
[14:58] <popey> one is whether we recommend 64-bit or not, the other is how we articulate that
[14:59] <popey> if one accepts the opinion of cjwatson then we need to frame it in a way that doesn't scare people off, which the current wording does
[15:00] <ilmari> newz2000: especially now that adobe have cancelled the 64bit flash beta
[15:07] <newz2000> dieki: thanks for the paste.u.c theme, I've emailed the person who manages that, but he's not on IRC today so maybe on holiday
[15:29] <MTeck> This is a little off topic - but my company released a revamped website - we got a >26,000% increase in traffic and basically handled it on 1GB RAM in stride.
[15:29] <newz2000> MTeck: what server-side technology did your website use?
[15:30] <MTeck> drupal
[15:30] <newz2000> that's impressive
[15:31] <MTeck> not that impressive really :P
[15:31] <newz2000> Drupal can be very ram hungry and can put a lot of strain on mysql w/ only 1G of ram
[15:31] <MTeck> our average was <20/day for a long time with the exclusion of a peak of 35
[15:32] <newz2000> ah
[15:32] <MTeck> I tweaked MySQL to cut its ram usage in half - no innodb support
[15:32] <MTeck> I took Apache out entirely which saved a lot
[15:32] <newz2000> MTeck: what did you use insteas of apache?
[15:32] <MTeck> nginx
[17:30] <philinux> Hi anyone active?
[17:37] <newz2000> hi philinux
[17:38] <philinux> Hi are you guys involved in maintaining ubuntu.com
[17:39] <newz2000> philinux: in various ways, yes
[17:40] <philinux> Ok I emailed the webmaster links regarding the message for 64 bit. Not recommended for daily desktop usage
[17:41] <philinux> Was wondering why the message.
[17:41] <newz2000> philinux: I'm<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is anything you've mentioned there diff than what is being discussed with bug 585940?
[17:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585940 in ubuntu-website "Text reads "not recommended" for 64-bit (affects: 41) (heat: 209)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585940
[17:41] <philinux> No I think I emailed before the bug report got made
[17:43] <newz2000> philinux: ubuntu.com is targeted at people who are not yet using ubuntu. Any case for 64b needs to identify how it will help these users by choosing it instead of 32b
[17:44] <philinux> Lots of new users have 64 bit machines and 4 gig memory and ask why they can only see 3gig. Comes up a lot on the forums.
[17:45] <newz2000> philinux: I'm going to bring this issue up with the people who chose that wording. Can you add your comments to that bug report so that I can give them one place to read up on it?
[17:45] <philinux> Do you know what the official explanation for the wording is?
[17:45] <newz2000> philinux: officially, we find typical users have a less functional system because of poor support for some drivers, flash and (at some point, maybe fixed now) java
[17:47] <philinux> Ah ok. Yes flash well 64 bit plugin now pulled I'm using the 32 bit. Java it's mainy applets I think
[17:48] <newz2000> I understand that there is a solution for the memory issue on 4GB systems. I can't remebmer what it is, maybe PAE?
[17:49] <philinux> That would be it. I think the problem people have is just the wording on the website. It could be better.
[17:49] <newz2000> I will talk to them about it.
[17:50] <philinux> Cheers, i'll post a comment on the bug report
[17:50] <newz2000> thanks philinux
[17:50] <philinux> Cheers
[17:54] <philinux> Bye for now
[18:22] <MTeck> so shaun___ might not be back for a while... I pointed him at some reading to understand the basics of Linux. I'm hoping that'll help him be able to follow the other hundreds of guides out there.
[21:08] <newz2000> well, that's good. Hope he makes progress


[01:38] <gsilvapt> Hello everyone. I need some help. Lets say I have this package I want to download via ssh (https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/konquest/?h=kubuntu_unstable). When running git clone ssh-link, the console uses a launchpad user that does not exist. What may I have poorly configured?
[01:39] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Here's what's in my .gitconfig
[01:39] <tsimonq2> [url<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:39] <tsimonq2>     insteadof = kubuntu:
[01:39] <tsimonq2> So I do this for example:
[01:39] <tsimonq2> git clone kubuntu:plasma-workspace
[01:40] <gsilvapt> My username in that option is correct, gsilvapt and not gsilva
[01:40] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: What's your LP URL?
[01:40] <gsilvapt> ~gsilvapt
[01:40] <gsilvapt> https://launchpad.net/~gsilvapt
[01:40] <gsilvapt> My launchpad id is gsilvapt and not gsilva
[01:40] <gsilvapt> I have no clue where LP is getting this id
[01:41] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Then what's it say in your .gitconfig?
[01:42] <gsilvapt> Regarding LP, I have these three options:
[01:42] <gsilvapt> [url<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:42] <gsilvapt>         insteadof = lp:
[01:42] <gsilvapt> [url<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:42] <gsilvapt>         insteadof = lpme:
[01:42] <gsilvapt> [url<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:42] <gsilvapt> 	insteadof = kp:
[01:42] <gsilvapt> And a global config name gsilvapt for GitHub. Nothing more
[01:42] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Is your SSH key added in Launchpad?
[01:42] <gsilvapt> Yes, just re-added the thing to be sure I didn't forget when I formated this machine
[01:43] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Run this command and pastebin the exact output please:
[01:43] <tsimonq2> $ git clone kp:plasma-workspace
[01:44] <gsilvapt> https://pastebin.com/aRGg4ugQ
[01:46] <gsilvapt> I sincerely have no clue where this got the gsilva. I previously had LP configured to gsilva (a long time ago), but then changed all of it to gsilvapt, precisely to match my GitHub's config
[01:46] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Then what's your issue? :)
[01:46] <tsimonq2> Try git clone kp:konquest
[01:46] <gsilvapt> When I try to clone repositories via ssh, launchpad uses LP IP gsilva and that, of course, returns errors and doesn't allow me to use ssh
[01:47] <gsilvapt> Same, no error because I'm not trying to use ssh
[01:48] <tsimonq2> ...huh?
[01:48] <tsimonq2> git+ssh is just that.
[01:48] <tsimonq2> Git over SSH.
[01:48] <tsimonq2> :)
[01:49] <gsilvapt> Right, I can't use git+ssh in LP
[01:49] <tsimonq2> Why not?
[01:50] <gsilvapt> because it uses a wrong id. gsilva, instead of gsilvapt
[01:51] <tsimonq2> Wait...
[01:51] <tsimonq2> I don't get what you're trying to say.
[01:51] <gsilvapt> If I try cloning git@github.com:snapcore/snapcraft.git via ssh, then I'll be fine
[01:51] <gsilvapt> but I use LP links, it doesn't work. gsilva != gsilvapt
[01:51] <gsilvapt> :P
[01:51] <tsimonq2> Bah
[01:52] <tsimonq2> Just edit ~/.ssh/config and add the following:
[01:52] <tsimonq2> Host git.launchpad.net
[01:52] <tsimonq2>         User tsimonq2
[01:52] <tsimonq2> And replace the spaces with a tab and tsimonq2 with your LP username
[01:52] <gsilvapt> I didn't have that file. Is that normal?
[01:53] <tsimonq2> Yep
[01:53] <gsilvapt> Okay, that worked! Thanks!
[01:54] <tsimonq2> You're welcome ;)
[01:54] <tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Have fun with Kubuntu packaging ;)
[01:54] <gsilvapt> Hehe, thanks :)
[22:28] <clivejo> Hi folks, would it be possible to get an increase to the size of our https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/stable PPA, it's reached 100%
[22:32] <clivejo> cjwatson: if you are about ^
[22:37] <cjwatson> clivejo: hm, ok - bumped a bit
[22:38] <clivejo> thanks :)


[22:30] <abbaZaba> I am having trouble with an upstart starting. It is supposed to initiate a VPN connection after a usb cell modem connects. It is not starting up on system boot, or ever
[22:30] <abbaZaba> http://pastebin.com/Yx1qsZt7
[22:30] <abbaZaba> when I type "start do-vpn" it connects fine
[22:31] <abbaZaba> why is not firing at system start, after ppp0 is established?
[22:31] <abbaZaba> it only fires when I manually start it
[22:32] <abbaZaba> actually that pastebin is slightly off: I did enclose the interface in parantheses
[22:32] <abbaZaba> http://pastebin.com/TaaX02CR
[22:44] <abbaZaba> ???


[00:12] <bac> hatch: you still around?
[00:12] <bac> or bcsaller?
[00:13] <bcsaller> I am
[00:13] <bcsaller> bac: whats up?
[00:13] <bac> bcsaller: hey i've got a problem where 'make check' when run by lbox fails 90% of the time.  makes it really hard to land branches
[00:14] <bac> bcsaller: that's the hell i'm stuck in now.  would you mind landing a branch for me?
[00:14] <bac> bcsaller: it is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bac/juju-gui/featured
[00:14] <bcsaller> yeah, you have the LGTM's and all?
[00:14] <bac> bcsaller: yep, it's ready to go
[00:14] <bcsaller> I'll give it a go
[00:15] <bac> between gjslint dumping core and this problem i've been poking at it for quite a while now
[00:15] <bac> bcsaller: thanks a bunch
[00:16] <bcsaller> The random port for make test-server sometimes means that it can timeout while loading the YUI code in debug mode, I've seen that once or twice, but mostly it works from the CLI which didn't interfere with lbox for me
[00:16] <bcsaller> trying make check now
[00:27] <bcsaller> bac: landed it
[00:28] <bac> thanks ben
[00:28] <bac> with that i'm outta here
[00:28]  * bac -> ich bin ein berliner
[00:45] <rick_h_> hatch: I'm going to have to introduce you to bzr mv
[01:06] <rick_h_> hatch: notes sent
[01:07] <rick_h_> hatch: looking good, lots of notpicking and a couple of bigger decisions to debate tomorrow
[01:21] <davecheney> hello, can anyone help me debug a gui problem ?
[01:22] <davecheney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6177888/
[01:22] <davecheney> run this script to create an environment
[01:22] <davecheney> then, using the gui, try to create a relation between p1 and w1
[01:22] <davecheney> then p1 and w2
[01:25] <rick_h_> davecheney: will give it a shot here in a sec
[01:25] <davecheney> thanks
[01:25] <davecheney> rick_h_: if you already have an enviroment running
[01:26] <rick_h_> davecheney: all good, will try with lxc
[01:26] <davecheney> the issue is you cannot create two relatoins from p1 to anything
[01:26] <davecheney> afte the first one
[01:26] <davecheney> all the remaining services are grey and will not accept a relation from p1
[01:32] <rick_h_> davecheney: so yea, I can confirm it but when I force the second relation via the cli it's a different type, website vs reverserproxy?
[01:33] <davecheney> that is just a label
[01:33] <davecheney> if you do
[01:33] <davecheney> add-relation w1 p1
[01:33] <rick_h_> well those are two different interfaces that haproxy supports
[01:33] <davecheney> or p1 w1
[01:33] <davecheney> it's just a label
[01:33] <davecheney> defined by the order of the relation
[01:33] <davecheney> they are both the http interface
[01:33] <rick_h_> davecheney: ah, ok cool
[01:34] <davecheney> so if you do p1 w1
[01:34] <davecheney> it's called reverse proxy
[01:34] <davecheney> if you do w1 p1 it's called website
[01:34] <davecheney> it would be good if the gui would say
[01:34] <davecheney> label:interface
[01:34] <davecheney> rather than just label
[01:34] <davecheney> for example when relating mediawiki
[01:34] <bcsaller> trunk should do that actually
[01:34] <davecheney> you have two mysel interfaces
[01:34] <rick_h_> davecheney: ok, do you mind filing a bug on it then? I'm guessing we don't have good logic for multiple targets for an interfaces, but then again mysql works fine with two services on one interface.
[01:34] <davecheney> db:mysql
[01:35] <davecheney> db_slave:mysql
[01:35] <davecheney> rick_h_: what title should I use for the bug ?
[01:36] <rick_h_> davecheney: so I'm testing the apache2 charm and the wordpress instances and apache2 provides three relation types
[01:36] <rick_h_> once i use one, the next time I try to relate, only two optinos are available.
[01:37] <rick_h_> I'm not an expert on juju relations, should it be completely possible to reuse the same relation type against many services?
[01:37] <rick_h_> davecheney: so the bug I'd go with "unable to relate multiple services with a single service on the same relation
[01:37] <rick_h_> or does that not make sense to other heads?
[01:37] <rick_h_> maybe with/to
[01:39] <davecheney> rick_h_: sounds like it
[01:40] <davecheney> afaik there is no limit on the number of peers of you can relate a service too
[01:40] <davecheney> lemmie ask hazmat
[01:40] <davecheney> hazmat: is there a limit to the number of relations to a service ?
[01:40] <rick_h_> thanks davecheney, let me know the bug # and I'll add it to the kanban under bugs to peek before I head to bed tonight
[01:40] <hazmat> davecheney, no
[01:41] <hazmat> davecheney, there is a notion of such in the charm metadata though
[01:41] <hazmat> its not acted upon
[01:41] <hazmat> also the gui solves once for requires
[01:41] <hazmat> effectively from a semantic perspective only provides  are unlimited as a relation endpoint
[01:42] <hazmat> peers are self established and effectively have a rel max count of 1
[01:42] <hazmat> s/self/auto
[01:43] <hazmat> they shouldn't appear in the gui as a valid rel target, but some display nesc for peer rel errors
[01:43] <davecheney> hazmat: i don't understand anything you just said
[01:43] <davecheney> can haproxy have more than one service related to it ?
[01:43] <hazmat> semantically no
[01:43] <hazmat> it requires http
[01:43] <davecheney> hazmat: i can do it with the cli
[01:44] <davecheney> and when I try the same, add-relation w2 p1 action in the gui
[01:44] <davecheney> from eithre p1 to w2
[01:44] <davecheney> or w2 to p1, it does not work, all the other services are greyed out
[01:44] <hazmat> hmm.. yeah.. it does look like it works for haproxy. for most services it doesn't
[01:45] <davecheney> hazmat: where is the bug ?
[01:45] <hazmat> ie. you can't relate wordpress to multiple mysql for examples logically
[01:45] <davecheney> the gui
[01:45] <davecheney> or the charm ?
[01:45] <hazmat> davecheney, the charm actually supports this, i'm talking about the way the gui auto solves the valid relation endpoints for drag targets (by ghosting non valid targets)
[01:45] <hazmat> their's some assumptions made beyond the base model
[01:46] <davecheney> hazmat: ok, rick_h_ , thanks will log a bug
[01:46] <hazmat> hence the phrase semantically
[01:46] <hazmat> because otherwise you get errors for the vast majority of requires dependencies uses
[01:46] <hazmat> which don't support multiples here
[01:47] <davecheney> hazmat: rick_h_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1233462
[01:47] <_mup_> Bug #1233462: gui does not allow multiple relations between wordpress and ha proxy <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233462>
[01:47] <davecheney> hazmat: but it works with mysql and wordpress
[01:47] <hazmat> davecheney, its only supported by the charm with explicit service config
[01:48] <davecheney> what is the difference ?
[01:48] <hazmat> davecheney, how
[01:48] <hazmat> davecheney, wordpress can only use one mysql db
[01:48] <hazmat> not multiples
[01:48] <davecheney> hazmat: ok, so is this a charm bug or a gui bug ?
[01:48] <hazmat> it only works for haproxy charm, because its specifically implemented via charm config
[01:48] <hazmat> davecheney, neither
[01:48] <davecheney> what is explicit service config ?
[01:48] <hazmat> charm config
[01:49] <hazmat> you have to configure the haproxy charm for this to work, relating to multiple upstream services
[01:49] <hazmat> otherwise its just broken
[01:49] <davecheney> hazmat: lets not get bogged down with what haproxy does when it gets that second relation
[01:49] <rick_h_> you know what, now that you say that this has come up before
[01:49] <davecheney> my issue is, i can do something on the cli that I can't do in the gui
[01:49] <hazmat> davecheney, why not? its perfectly relevant to the gui behavior here
[01:49] <hazmat> which is don't let me casually get a bunch of broken services
[01:50] <hazmat> by accidental relation creation
[01:50] <davecheney> hazmat: ok, please answer this
[01:50] <davecheney> how does the gui know ?
[01:50] <davecheney> where is the metadata that explains that ha proxy can only have one relation on the website:http relation ?
[01:50] <hazmat> davecheney, fufilled requirements ('requires') are considered satisified if they have an established relation
[01:50] <davecheney> sorry, reverseproxy:http relation
[01:51] <davecheney> hazmat: please don't talk charm speak to me
[01:51] <davecheney> i don't understand it
[01:51] <davecheney> speak plainly and use the words I use
[01:51] <davecheney> which are add-relatoin, gui and cli
[01:51] <hazmat> relation endpoints, are one of three types .. peer, client/require, server/provider
[01:51] <hazmat> peers are auto established on deploy, no need for add-relation
[01:52] <davecheney> ok
[01:52] <hazmat> client <-> server ... the gui will only do a client as a valid add-relation target, if doesn't have a another client-server relation
[01:52] <hazmat> servers can do unlimited clients
[01:52] <davecheney> what
[01:52] <davecheney> stop
[01:52] <davecheney> "he gui will only do a client as a valid add-relation target"
[01:52] <davecheney> please explains this bit
[01:52] <davecheney> i don't understand
[01:52]  * hazmat sighs
[01:53] <hazmat> g+?
[01:54] <hazmat> davecheney, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2e5dc0e9a9e103bfccc16a95c045b1a2ce449249?hl=en
[01:54] <rick_h_> hazmat: mind if I jump in to catch up?
[01:54] <hazmat> rick_h_, sure
[01:54] <davecheney> sorry, i don't ahve my teleconference kit with me
[01:54] <davecheney> i'm at a coworking space
[01:54] <davecheney> we can do this another time
[01:54] <davecheney> all i'm looking for is the magic bit of configuation in the charm that says 'i can have multiple relations'
[01:54] <davecheney> which i'm guessing is provides an requires
[01:54] <davecheney> requires is at most one
[01:54] <davecheney> provies is many
[01:55] <hazmat> nutshell yes
[01:56] <hazmat> davecheney, put another way the only charm that supports multiple requires relations that doesn't result in broken usage i  know of is haproxy
[01:56] <davecheney> provides:
[01:56] <davecheney>   website:
[01:56] <davecheney>     interface: http
[01:56] <davecheney> ^ from ha proxy
[01:56] <davecheney> ahh, but wordpress doens't have a requires
[01:57] <hazmat> yes.. both haproxy and wordpress provide http.. but haproxy has to require an upstream http.
[01:57] <hazmat> and even then haproxy requires explicit service configuration to be set for this usage to work
[02:02] <davecheney> provides: - The deployed service unit must have the given relations established with another service unit whose charm requires them for the service to work properly. See below for how to define a relation.
[02:02] <davecheney> requires: - The deployed service unit must have the given relations established with another service unit whose charm provides them for the service to work properly. See below for how to define a relation.
[02:03] <davecheney> from our docs
[02:03] <davecheney> brilliant ...
[02:04] <davecheney> hazmat: looking at the mysql charm
[02:04] <davecheney> it provides db:mysql to many clients
[02:05] <davecheney> and requires salve:mysql-oneway-replicatoin to many clients
[02:05] <davecheney> there is a limit: n field in the docs
[02:05] <davecheney> but it is not implemented
[02:05] <hazmat> requires: to one client
[02:05] <hazmat> er.. requires: to one provider
[02:06] <davecheney> hazmat: so you are saying i can only have one master and one slave ?
[02:06] <hazmat> no.. you can have several slaves
[02:06] <hazmat> you said it requires: x...
[02:07] <davecheney> so i can do juju deploy -n2 mysql slave
[02:07] <hazmat> all requires: are in common usage to one relation (which is implemented and constrained as such by the gui)
[02:07] <davecheney> the juju add-relation m1:slave slave:master
[02:07] <davecheney> sorry, terrible names ?
[02:07] <hazmat> number of units has nothing to do with relations
[02:07] <hazmat> number of services does
[02:07] <davecheney> aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[02:07] <davecheney> now I understand
[02:08] <davecheney> so i cannot do
[02:08] <davecheney> juju deploy mysql s1
[02:08] <davecheney> juju deploy mysql s2
[02:08] <davecheney> juju add-relation m1:slave s1
[02:08] <davecheney> juju add-relation m1:slave s2
[02:08] <davecheney> because that is what I *think* is happening with the haproxy example
[02:09] <hazmat> not quite
[02:09] <hazmat> juju add-relation m1:master s1:slave
[02:09] <hazmat> juju add-relation m1:master s2:slave
[02:10] <hazmat> the haproxy to not result in a something broken does
[02:10] <davecheney> rick_h_: that is the bug
[02:10] <davecheney> the name of the relation shuld be reverseproxy
[02:10] <davecheney> not website
[02:11] <hazmat> davecheney, that's a judgement call
[02:11] <hazmat> davecheney, we basically color / label the relations by the name of provider afaicr
[02:11] <hazmat> in the gui
[02:12] <hazmat> or is it the other way around.. don't remember.. i tried both ways.. one worked better for the majority
[02:12] <davecheney> right
[02:12] <davecheney> so it's wordpress, website:http <> haproxy reverseproxy:http
[02:16] <hatch> oh good you guys are discussing that bug
[02:16]  * hatch reads the backlog
[02:19] <hatch> I seem to remember this exact issue being brought up by someone else
[02:19] <hatch> I wonder if this can be better documented/illustrated somewhere
[02:20] <davecheney> hazmat: as I read it, wordpress provides website:http
[02:20] <davecheney> which means many services may require it
[02:20] <davecheney> is that correct ?
[02:22] <davecheney> hazmat: the short version is
[02:22] <davecheney> haproxy can only proxy one service
[02:22] <davecheney> the gui is doing the right thing
[02:22] <davecheney> the client is doing the wrong thing
[02:24] <hatch> I hope that's right, I spent a long time on those darn endpoint calculations :D
[02:24] <hatch> (in the gui)
[02:25] <hatch> unless of course that's not the case, then it was someone else :P
[02:25] <davecheney> LP1233462
[02:25] <davecheney> #1233462
[02:25] <_mup_> Bug #1233462: gui does not allow multiple relations between wordpress and ha proxy <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233462>
[02:25] <hatch> davecheney: not sure if you saw, but all of your previous bugs have been fixed and committed waiting for release
[02:26] <davecheney> hatch: nice
[02:26] <davecheney> thanks
[02:27] <davecheney> i look forward to consuming them
[02:28] <hatch> davecheney: ok I'm not the utmost expert in this field but as per your bug I would bet that the GUI is acting correctly
[02:28] <hatch> unless you have done some magic in the hook for the requires
[02:28] <hatch> so maybe the CLI allows you to do it because you 'might' want to do it??
[02:28] <davecheney> hatch: the gui only consumes metadata.yaml, right ?
[02:29] <hatch> the GUI gets it's metadata from charmworld
[02:29] <hatch> 'formatted' metadata
[02:29] <davecheney> hatch: my point is, nobody reads the hooks
[02:29] <davecheney> they are opaque
[02:30] <hatch> agreed
[02:30] <hatch> thenagain noone reads the source of any module they include into their system :D
[02:30] <davecheney> hatch: when I say noone, i mean the gui, the cli, etc
[02:30] <davecheney> their contents do not influcnce the gui endpoint calculations
[02:30] <hatch> correct
[02:31] <hatch> there would be no way they could
[02:31] <davecheney> 12:28 < hatch> unless you have done some magic in the hook for the requires
[02:31] <davecheney> ^ so this isn't possible
[02:31] <hatch> well you can write whatever you want in your hooks - so that might be why the CLI allows it
[02:31] <davecheney> hatch: in that case, the gui shuld allow this as well
[02:31] <davecheney> which sounds wrong
[02:32] <hatch> hmm
[02:32] <hatch> yeah I can't really disagree with that
[02:34] <hatch> guess that's not really up to me which one is doing it wrong :)
[02:37] <hatch> but looking at how, for example mysql has it's relations set up, I would hazard a guess that you are only ever supposed to have a single require per endpoint
[13:10] <gary_poster> The email! It doesn't stop! <whimpers>
[13:14] <rick_h_> gary_poster: we need an email protection program that mirrors the witness protection program
[13:14] <gary_poster> rick_h_, lol sounds good
[13:14] <rick_h_> you get sent away and you can't tell anyone where you went
[13:14] <gary_poster> as long as you don't have to deal with the subsequent fallout, +1 :-)
[13:28] <TheMue> gary_poster: i've commented in https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1224568 what's now reported in case of a hook error
[13:28] <_mup_> Bug #1224568: Improve hook error reporting <juju-core:In Progress by themue> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1224568>
[13:29] <TheMue> gary_poster: could you check if this is ok for you?
[13:29] <gary_poster> TheMue, awesome, thanks, yes!  looking
[13:30] <gary_poster> TheMue, could you include a concrete example there or in a pastebin?
[13:31] <gary_poster> TheMue, fwiw, it sounds perfect so far. :-)
[13:32] <TheMue> gary_poster: ok, will add it
[13:32] <gary_poster> thank yoU
[13:49] <rick_h_> luca__: for these images in the bundle token, are they centered, left align, right align? Say a bundle has 3 tokens, where do we want them?
[13:57] <hatch_> all-over-the-place!
[14:05] <TheMue> gary_poster: done
[14:05] <gary_poster> TheMue, ack and thanks!  on call, will review after call
[14:16] <hatch_> the power went out here last night - I remember when everything wasn't battery powered and that mattered :D
[14:17] <rick_h_> heh
[14:18] <rick_h_> yea, it's kind of cool how if you UPS up the internet gear you can keep going without power for a while
[14:18] <hatch> we are very close to the local switch, so I'm goign to assume that if we get a 'real' outage we would also lose internet
[14:19] <hatch> but I have no idea what's inside those big green boxes
[14:19] <hatch> :)
[14:22] <hatch> so...it's been a couple days since the finally of breaking bad...I hope people can stop talking about it now
[14:22] <hatch> :P
[14:27] <rick_h_> benji: got a sec to chat charm id in the bundle api response?
[14:28] <benji> rick_h_: sure
[14:28] <hatch> rick_h_: did you get a chance to read my responses to your comments?
[14:28] <rick_h_> hatch: little bit. I basically read "we'll talk tomorrow" and left it at that :)
[14:29] <hatch> haha ok cool, I'm trying to find out if there are icons for bundles
[14:29] <hatch> it doesn't look like it
[14:31] <hatch> the docs mention a 'has_icon' property but that's not retured
[14:36] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, sec otp
[14:43] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, got a sec if you want to chat then?
[14:44] <hatch> calling
[15:04] <rick_h_> benji: so I'm looking at that deployer file and I see that in the services list the key is db, and there's a 'charm' attribute in there that says mysql
[15:04] <rick_h_> benji: the rest don't have a charm name, but the key looks like the name
[15:04] <rick_h_> benji: is there any rule of thumb on this atm?
[15:05] <benji> rick_h_: I'm 80% sure that the key is the service name, not the charm name (e.g., "intranet" not "apache2")
[15:06] <rick_h_> benji: ok, so I should look to be adding a firm name attribute for our use then as it's a bit inconsistent in the deployer format of the api call
[15:08] <benji> rick_h_: +1
[15:09] <benji> rick_h_: I'm begining to think that the GUI-needed details should not be superimposed on the deployer data, but "beside" or "above" it in the data layout
[15:09] <benji> that way if an attribute is added to the deployer data we don't have to worry about key collisions
[15:10] <hatch_> so remember when I said a 'real' poweroutage
[15:10] <hatch_> lol
[15:10] <hatch_> ka-boooooom goes the transformer
[15:14] <rick_h_> benji: true, we used the idea of 'metadata' in the other api calls for things that might need to expand/be additional info. Maybe that idea makes sense here
[15:15] <rick_h_> benji: though that won't work with the current deployer stuff since it would nest the deployer info one level down into the object. Maybe a reserved 'metadata' keyword the deployer can promise to not use? Single key safety?
[15:15] <rick_h_> this of course assumes that the deployer ignores things it doesn't care about which I've not verified
[15:16] <benji> rick_h_: I think I'm -0 on a reserved keyword (for two main reasons: 1) from an information architecture view point it doesn't sit right, and 2) coordinating with other people is hard/irritating ;)
[15:17] <rick_h_> benji: yea, but then how were you thinking of making it 'above/below'?
[15:17] <rick_h_> benji: do you mean on the api call itself? I think we were in agreement for a api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki/details new call?
[15:17] <benji> for the search results use, its easy
[15:18] <benji> right for /detais we just either make a top-level object with two keys ("bundle" and "charm_details" perhaps)
[15:18] <rick_h_> gotcha, yea. So in that new call I'd probably do keys like 'deployer' 'metadata'
[15:19] <rick_h_> and anything in deployer is the same format you'd expect, and the metadata is the consistant "extra" we've had in other calls
[15:19] <rick_h_> the name kind of sucks in this case, but I'd rather keep that key consistant with the rest of the api
[15:20] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/2/charm/precise/apache2-2 like here where the doctype was part of metadata
[15:20]  * rick_h_ thought we used it elsewhere as well...
[15:23] <benji> rick_h_: yeah, I don't really like "metadata" in isolation there, but the consistency argument makes sense
[15:23] <rick_h_> benji: right
[15:30] <rick_h_> frankban: ping, got a sec?
[15:30] <frankban> rick_h_: sure
[15:31] <rick_h_> frankban: so, I think your fix is ok. It does the job, but it gets around the issue vs fixing the issue it appears
[15:31] <rick_h_> frankban: so when I test trunk, I minimize, reopen, the details are there but then get blanked
[15:31] <rick_h_> frankban: as if something stepped in and deleted it. This is very visible in IE because of the sloweless of it
[15:32] <frankban> rick_h_: yes, the sidebar.render() makes them disappear
[15:32] <rick_h_> frankban: your fix re-renders it, which seems pretty smooth in chrome (it deletes and rerenders quickly) but then in IE it's really noticable that it was there and then gone and then back again
[15:32] <rick_h_> frankban: so I'm wondering if the "best" fix isn't to try to get at the deletion vs rerendering?
[15:33] <frankban> rick_h_: it depends: I don't know why we are re-rendering the sidebar, and if the reason also applies to the details
[15:33] <rick_h_> frankban: k, looking through the code now. I know there was a bug around something there. Trying to recall.
[15:34] <frankban> rick_h_: thanks
[15:37] <rick_h_> frankban: https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/juju-gui/more-state-issues/+merge/182459 is the branch that did it. It was cleanup related. A couple of bugs are tied to it
[15:38]  * gary_poster goes for a quick walk.  back in time for call.
[15:38] <rick_h_> frankban: the second to last item in the MP description fit in there. We forced re-render because of an odd chain of paths where there's no ._sidebar instance but the viewmode didn't change. I'm trying to recall the path that hit that.
[15:39] <rick_h_> frankban: hangout?
[15:39] <frankban> rick_h_: sure
[15:41] <rick_h_> frankban: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c28ca959a840aa4051c5bdcd11f691bfe11d92c7?hl=en
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:55] <luca__> gary_poster: I'll get back to you tomorrow on the build relation thing, I want to think it over a bit
[15:55] <hatch> Makyo: the new Krewella cd 'Get Wet' is out, not sure if you're a fan? https://itunes.apple.com/ca/album/get-wet/id689472430
[15:55] <luca__> gary_poster: the solution we have in the pipe line is a button that appears on hover over the top of the service block, but the service block design has not be solved.
[15:57] <Makyo> hatch, not heard of them, but will take a look :)  While we're at it. Chibitech finally released an album instead of singles, if you're into chip stuff: http://chibitech.bandcamp.com/album/moenes-vol-1-the-idol-composers-groove /cc jcsackett
[15:57] <hatch> will have to take a look after the call
[15:58] <Makyo> Ofc
[15:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 2 :)
[16:26] <hatch> Makyo: my dogs hate your music
[16:26] <hatch> lol
[16:26] <Makyo> Hahahah
[16:27] <frankban> rick_h_: it seems the sidebar shows up before routeDirectCharmId is called
[16:28] <Makyo> hatch, currently stuck on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2f6UbMnlq4 though
[16:28] <rick_h_> frankban: yes, I'm looking now. I think the bug is in the cleanOldViews and the viewmode state change
[16:29] <rick_h_> frankban: when you go from minimized to sidebar the old sidebar is still there, even though _cleanOldViews should have run .destroy() on it
[16:29] <hatch> Makyo: slightly different than this version of The Fox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE
[16:29] <Makyo> Do I want to click this?  Will this make me want to strangle someone?
[16:29] <Makyo> Yep.
[16:30] <hatch> lol!
[16:30] <Makyo> C'mere hatch.  Stranglin' time.
[16:30] <hatch> what does the fox say? ding ding ding ding ding ding lol
[16:31] <Makyo> James got the woot shirt with that on it.  Sigh.
[16:32] <hatch> lol
[16:34] <rick_h_> frankban: so http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1026/ I think fixes it
[16:34] <rick_h_> frankban: the destroy is called in _cleanOldViews but it never removed the html. This causes the flicker effect when it's made visible again. Fixing the destroy fixes the flicker
[16:35] <hatch> Makyo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyzgeee2mg by the same guys
[16:35] <Makyo> That video is so ridiculous :P
[16:36] <hatch> lol
[16:36] <rick_h_> frankban: so this gets to the point that originally we kept the html around so that minimize/unminimized where instant user experiences
[16:36] <frankban> rick_h_: that's great! so we were seeing a ghost of the old sidebar
[16:36] <rick_h_> frankban: but then we ended up with invisible html holding events on the DOM that it should not have and started to clean it up
[16:37] <frankban> rick_h_: makes sense. and the updateVisible fix really shows its effects, right?
[16:39] <frankban> rick_h_: ok, bzr pushed the changes, if you want to do a quick final QA. I'll change the test as you suggested and then land the branch, ok?
[16:45] <rick_h_> frankban: rgr, looking now. Sorry for the delay, had someone at the door.
[16:46] <rick_h_> frankban: so one more thing then
[16:47] <rick_h_> frankban: rather than add the force flag, I think it would make sense for the _cleanOldViews to also remove this._details if it exists and the old viewmode we're removing is sidebar.
[16:47] <rick_h_> frankban: then we don't need the force bits at all?
[16:49] <frankban> rick_h_: makes sense, so in _shouldShowCharm, if we have a charmID but not a _details, we return true
[16:49] <frankban> (and we don't need force)
[16:49] <rick_h_> frankban: well the viewmode should have been changed though...I'm looking. It seems shouldShowCharm might be off?
[16:50] <rick_h_> frankban: so it should work the way it is right? If we have a charm id, and the viewmode changed (minimized to sidebar) then we should show the charm
[16:50] <rick_h_> we then call renderCharmDetails which checks "is there already a details rendered under this._details"
[16:50] <rick_h_> frankban: so if we clean up this._details in the _cleanOldViews then that check will work correctly and we'll be fine
[16:51] <frankban> rick_h_: ok, I'll check it tomorrow, and repropose
[16:51] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, sounds good. Sorry to run you through it all.
[16:51] <rick_h_> thanks for tracing it through
[16:52] <frankban> rick_h_: no worries: your solution is simple and clean, thanks for helping me
[17:24] <gary_poster> hey hatch, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1224568?
[17:24] <_mup_> Bug #1224568: Improve hook error reporting <juju-core:In Progress by themue> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1224568>
[17:24] <hatch> looking
[17:25] <hatch> gary_poster: odd that I have it 'affecting' me but I don't get the update emails
[17:25] <hatch> thanks for pointing it out
[17:26] <gary_poster> hatch, look for subscription information on right of bug
[17:26] <gary_poster> "You are not subscribed..."
[17:26] <gary_poster> click on link to change
[17:26] <hatch> weird, so what's the point of 'affects' ? haha
[17:28] <gary_poster> hatch, I think it was introduced as a way to reduce people adding "+1" comments
[17:28] <hatch> ohh
[17:29] <hatch> this is looking great
[17:29] <hatch> do that's going to be coming in 1.16?
[17:29] <hatch> so*
[17:31] <gary_poster> hatch yeah I think so
[17:31] <gary_poster> hatch, so he means all of those keys come in the unit state keys right?
[17:32] <hatch> just reading the diffs
[17:33] <hatch> ok yes so basically he added a new Data param which includes those keys
[17:33] <hatch> basically exactly what we asked for
[17:33] <gary_poster> hatch, so those keys are nested in "Data"?
[17:34] <hatch> right
[17:34] <gary_poster> cool.
[17:34] <hatch> yeah so we can modify the contents of Data all we want without stirring up a mess down the road
[17:34] <gary_poster> oic
[17:34] <bcsaller> we don't set status, core does
[17:35] <hatch> we have the keys to core's house
[17:35] <hatch> ;)
[17:36] <hatch> I can't seem to link to a line in the diff, but there is now a StatusData key
[17:36] <bcsaller> I've read the diff
[17:38] <hatch> the only question I have....is I see the data there for the errors
[17:39] <hatch> but I don't see how we can tell if it's an error
[17:39] <hatch> see comment #4 and #5 on the bug
[17:39] <hatch> oh nm
[17:39] <gary_poster> hatch, status, yeah?
[17:40] <hatch> yeah my brain has just been failing lately
[17:40] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:40] <hatch> err = u.SetStatus(params.StatusError, "lol borken", nil)
[17:40] <hatch> we should totally use those error messages
[17:40] <hatch> haha
[17:40] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:56] <benji> oh, the test server port changed; is the new port number random or fixed?
[17:57] <gary_poster> benji, random
[17:57] <benji> that's irritating
[17:58] <gary_poster> benji, I didn't love it but could work around it.  Ben introduced it to reduce people running tests of one branch when they are actually testing another/  what's your issue with it?
[17:59] <gary_poster> jujugui, charm review in https://codereview.appspot.com/14226043/
[17:59] <benji> I use browser and command-line history to recall previous test runs (i.e., ones with a "grep=" bit)
[18:00] <bcsaller> benji: it wouldn't be hard to optionally read the port from the shell env
[18:00] <benji> it's probably not worth the additional complexity
[18:00] <rick_h_> bcsaller: yea, maybe limit it to just lboxing vs all test runs?
[18:01] <bcsaller> its very little complexity
[18:01] <bcsaller> process.environ.JUJU_TEST_SERVER_PORT || 0 (not sure I have the spelling right on nodejs env access, just guessing)
[18:03] <hatch> +1 on checking if open
[18:03] <hatch> I ran into the issue described but just dealt with it :)
[18:05] <benji> Yeah, if we're not checking to see if the port is already in use, choosing a random one is worse than using a static one.
[18:05] <benji> If we are checking to see if the port is available, we could just default to the current (er, old) port number if it is available
[18:05] <gary_poster> Makyo, should I wait release on bug 1214821
[18:05] <_mup_> Bug #1214821: new units added to the canvas overlap old ones <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214821>
[18:05] <gary_poster> Makyo, IOW are you almost done?  Inclined to forge ahead
[18:05] <Makyo> gary_poster, don't wait up.  It's relatively small, but will involve a lot of QA on my end.
[18:05] <gary_poster> cool thanks Makyo
[18:29] <hatch> hey only 26errors after the refactor, not bad :)
[18:30] <rick_h_> hatch: :)
[18:41] <benji> jujugui: review up: https://codereview.appspot.com/14216044
[18:42] <hatch> benji: I'll take it
[18:42] <hatch> no qa notes?
[18:42] <hatch> or is this the 'unable to do' branch?
[18:43] <benji> hatch: well, you can do it, but it won't work :)
[18:43] <benji> you have to enable the charmworldv3 flag
[18:47] <hatch> benji: lol, so if I use the v3 flag It'll work?
[18:48] <benji> hatch: no: if you use the v3 flag (and search for "wiki") you will see some bundle tokens that if dragged to the canvas will generate an error
[18:48] <hatch> oh ok then
[18:48] <gary_poster> benji, you have a sec to review my charm branch? https://codereview.appspot.com/14226043/
[18:49] <benji> gary_poster: sure
[18:49] <gary_poster> thanks benji
[18:50] <hatch> benji: done
[19:03] <rick_h_> jujugui small review please https://codereview.appspot.com/14222044
[19:04] <hatch> is manage.jujucharms.com down?
[19:05] <hatch> it's giving me a 403 on my api requests
[19:05] <hatch> rick_h_: sure
[19:05] <rick_h_> hatch: nope, but the nav is messed up
[19:05] <hatch> who's responsible for manage?
[19:05] <rick_h_> hatch: us :)
[19:05] <rick_h_> hatch: what's the issue?
[19:06] <hatch> shit those guys are so unreliable!
[19:06] <hatch> OPTIONS https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/2/charm/precise/ceph-16 403 (Forbidden)
[19:06] <gary_poster> benji ^^^ is this the rollout
[19:07] <rick_h_> hatch: oh, https is down, http is responding to calls oops
[19:07]  * Makyo dogwalk, appt, etc.  Back at normal EoD, will work some after.
[19:07] <gary_poster> oh
[19:07] <rick_h_> I would guess rollout issue with apache there. It should be redirecting http to https
[19:07] <benji> gary_poster: jjo is actively working on the rollout
[19:07] <gary_poster> benji ack thanks
[19:07] <rick_h_> heh, well now it's down down
[19:08] <hatch> lol - ok well glad we are doing something on it
[19:08] <hatch> would have been awesome if there were some warning ;)
[19:08] <benji> that's what you get for complaining; the next time you get a time out
[19:08] <hatch> lol!
[19:08] <benji> :)
[19:14] <gary_poster> jujugui, I am doing release QA, so if you could hold off on landing that would be convenient.  :-)
[19:14] <rick_h_> gary_poster: rgr
[19:14] <gary_poster> thank you
[19:15] <hatch> rick_h_: done
[19:16] <rick_h_> hatch: thanks.
[19:16] <rick_h_> time to go get the boy and do flu shot time. Running away.
[19:16] <hatch> lataz
[19:16]  * hatch thought flu shots were for old people and babys
[19:17] <rick_h_> hatch: and husbands of doctors...
[19:17] <hatch> lol yeah good point I guess
[19:17] <hatch> haha
[19:17] <rick_h_> day care and doctors bring home lots of bugs for home-body people like me to fight off
[19:18] <hatch> yeah - I think that every time I go shopping I get sick
[19:18] <hatch> lol
[19:21] <benji> gary_poster: your branch looks good
[19:21] <gary_poster> Thanks benji
[19:22] <hatch> I'm going to grab some lunch while manage is spinning back up
[19:22] <gary_poster> jujugui, release notes.  comments corrections welcome.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6180930/
[19:22]  * hatch after he reads the release notes
[19:22]  * hatch still can't believe people turn off cookies
[19:23] <gary_poster> lol
[19:23] <hatch> gary_poster: lgtm
[19:23] <gary_poster> thanks hatch
[19:23] <benji> the most common lie in release notes: "soon"
[19:24] <bcsaller> lots of good fixes
[19:24] <hatch> soon is relative :)
[19:24] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:24] <gary_poster> yes, definitely agree bcsaller
[19:25] <benji> the notes look good to me
[19:28] <gary_poster> thanks benji
[19:28] <gary_poster> qa looks good to me.  found an issue, reported it, but not a showstopper.  proceeding with release.
[19:42] <benji> abentley and/or sinzui: can you join be and jjo in #webops?  The charmworld upgrade is going poorly and I have to leave for a doctors appointment in 20 minutes.
[20:09] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/352427/juju-gui-charm-api-did-not-respond
[20:10] <jcastro> anyone ever see this before?
[20:10] <jcastro> I've never even seen that error before this
[20:23] <rick_h_> jcastro: there was a deploy back at 19:07ish that had things down for a minute?
[20:23] <rick_h_> that's a hair under an hour ago and this post is showing about 31min ago?
[20:24] <rick_h_> jcastro: just a guess, but I'll bet it hit that as apache restarted and hatch hit the same thing in doing some testing. I'd just follow up if it's still an issue and if not then carry on.
[20:25] <hatch> jcastro: rick_h_ yes manage.jujucharms.com is down still
[20:25] <hatch> I'm not sure who's doing the work on it?
[20:26] <hatch> it's been down for quite a while now
[20:26] <rick_h_> hatch: oh, didn't notice it was still down :(
[20:26] <hatch> yeah now it's holding me up....who do I need to lend a hand to to get it back up?
[20:26] <rick_h_> benji: news from jjo? hatch maybe join #webops and see if there's news to follow up there
[20:27] <hatch> will do
[20:29] <hatch> jcastro: I can reply to that askubuntu post
[20:29] <hatch> I should create an account anyways
[20:29] <hatch> :D
[20:32] <hatch> jcastro: done http://askubuntu.com/questions/352427/juju-gui-charm-api-did-not-respond/352444#352444
[20:32] <_mup_> Bug #352444: Banshee.exe crashed with SIGSEGV <amd64> <apport-crash> <apport-failed-retrace> <banshee (Ubuntu):Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/352444>
[20:33] <hatch> I also subscribed to juju and gui tags so hopefully as new ones come up I can help with them
[20:42] <gary_poster> jujugui, release was made, but holding off on announcement till charmwoprld is back
[20:42] <gary_poster> benji, you landed in middle of release, but was ok :-P
[20:48] <benji> gary_poster: darn!  I was so focused on finishing before I had to go I messed up.
[20:48] <gary_poster> benji, np :-)
[20:48] <benji> I guess in an ideal world we would have a gate on that.
[20:48] <hatch> we do don't we?
[20:49] <hatch> because you release from your own machine
[20:49] <hatch> :)
[20:49] <gary_poster> benji, do I understand correctly that the deployment problem is that pyjuju/zookeeper fell over badly?
[20:49] <benji> gary_poster: that is at least part of it
[20:50] <hatch> it's times like this I'm glad I'm not in devops
[20:50] <hatch> er
[20:50] <hatch> sysops
[20:50] <gary_poster> oh, there's more benji?  I saw sinzui point out http://staging.jujucharms.com/heartbeat
[20:50] <gary_poster> is that an issue?
[20:50] <benji> gary_poster: that status is 25% better than it was when I left
[20:50] <gary_poster> benji, that's staging
[20:51] <benji> oh, darn
[20:51] <gary_poster> http://manage.jujucharms.com/heartbeat
[21:24]  * gary_poster needs to step away
[23:10] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:10] <hatch> ahoy!
[23:11] <hatch> you missed all the downtime this afternoon - came up just in time for you to be productive ;)
[23:13] <hatch> but a GUI release went out
[23:13] <hatch> so that's cool
[23:14] <huwshimi> :)
[23:16] <gary_poster> hey huwshimi.  yeah, "exciting" afternoon. ;-) Have a good day.
[23:17] <huwshimi> hehe
[23:21] <hatch> haha - so when manage went down I kept working on my branch - and it all still works
[23:21] <hatch> lol, yussss
[23:25] <hatch> man sometimes i get some super odd content requests on my blog...
[23:25] <hatch> and not just once either
[23:26] <hatch> like requests for php files, aspx files ?


[00:11] <dps> man, im liking the feel of the 20.04 desktop rn
[00:13] <dps> ik its just dailies, but still. if this is any hint at what we have to look forward to in the actual stable release, then i think the talk where people are saying stuff like "Ubuntu doesnt care about its desktop users  anymore" has no merit whatsoever
[00:15] <dps> as a new user to the Linux world (almost a year now and ive used many distros), this is what kind of a fresh desktop i want, and i believe that this is the desktop that (if pushed out into the open enough and marketing was strategically done) could bring in a whole new wave of users
[00:15] <dps> at any rate, thanks to the desktop devs. ill be sending my thanks soon, actually
[00:15] <dps> ;)
[02:03] <jamesh> robert_ancell: hi.  I was having a discussion about theme snap installation last night, and how it will probably require some background service in the desktop session to monitor changes
[02:04] <jamesh> robert_ancell: there was some questions about where to host the code for such a daemon since it will probably have to be written in C, and one option proposed was to ship it with snapd-glib.  Do you have any thoughts on that?
[02:23] <robert_ancell> jamesh, I would think it would make sense for it to be a separate project, but I'd have to look at more details on the service.
[02:27] <jamesh> robert_ancell: it would be a background service that monitors GtkSettings to watch GTK, icon, and sound theme names, and trigger installation of a snap if there are no installed snaps providing that theme, probably via snapd-glib
[02:28] <robert_ancell> Yeah, that definitely sounds like it should be a separate project. Why would it be part of snapd-glib?
[02:30] <jamesh> there was some concern about hosting it in the snapd repo itself due to the extra build dependencies, and that if it uses snapd-glib it might cause a dependency loop (even if just for testing)
[02:31] <jamesh> I guess the suggestion for snapd-glib was to make it easier to get the thing rolled out
[02:32] <robert_ancell> That's what it sounded like :)
[02:33] <robert_ancell> It sounds like a 'snap-desktop-support' project to me.
[02:33] <robert_ancell> That would contains any services that a desktop might require.
[02:35] <jamesh> that's probably a good idea.
[02:36] <jamesh> I think there was agreement that this can't easily be written in Go, and specifically can't easily be a subcommand of /usr/bin/snap
[02:59] <robert_ancell> jamesh, does it use dbus?
[03:00] <jamesh> robert_ancell: it would be using libgtk
[03:01] <robert_ancell> oh, yeah, that would be a pain in go.
[03:01] <jamesh> gtk_settings_get_default() and then get properties on that GtkSettings object plus notification of changes
[03:02] <jamesh> we want the current theme as GTK understands it, which means doing XSETTINGS on X11, dconf on Wayland, etc
[03:03] <jamesh> and Wimpress pointed out that e.g. Mate uses different gsettings keys to store the user's preferred themes
[03:03] <jamesh> so we can't ignore XSETTINGS
[06:38] <didrocks> good morning
[06:39] <jibel> hi didrocks
[06:41] <didrocks> salut jibel
[06:46] <fidencio> Search Results
[06:46] <fidencio> Web results
[06:47] <fidencio> arrrgh, middle button click :-/
[06:47] <fidencio> but, anyways, while still here ...
[06:47] <fidencio> ça va didrocks, jibel ...
[06:48] <didrocks> good morning fidencio :)
[07:13] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:13] <oSoMoN> and happy Friday!
[07:13] <didrocks> happy Friday oSoMoN :)
[07:14] <didrocks> jibel: and tests pass, easy one to merge if you may: https://github.com/ubuntu/zsys/pull/29 :)
[07:14] <gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 29 in zsys "Remove dead code in i18n which lower coverage" [Open]
[07:16] <jibel> didrocks, merged
[07:16] <didrocks> thx!
[07:17] <jibel> Hi fidencio
[07:37] <Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
[07:38] <Wimpress> FYI, I'm out of the office today. Have a good weekend and see you all next week :-)
[07:40] <jibel> Wimpress, hi and bye, enjoy your week end :)
[07:44] <didrocks> hey Wimpress :) see you next week!
[07:46] <dupondje> oSoMoN: why is Thunderbird still hanging in proposed? :)
[07:47] <dupondje> Seems like verified already
[07:49] <fidencio> didrocks: I know it would only bring more workload to your back, but ... I'd like to have you as part of libosinfo maintainers, specifically taking care of ubuntu stuff
[07:51] <fidencio> didrocks: the idea (which is still in a quite early stage) would be to have people involved with the distro applying/reviewing the patches without having to wait for me to come back from vacation / other stuff to review / apply patches
[07:51] <fidencio> didrocks: does that make sense? or is that something not desired in your opinion?
[07:53] <didrocks> fidencio: sure, as long as it's about watching/updating xml files for the ubuntu area, I think that's not that much additional work and I would be able to handle it.
[07:54] <fidencio> didrocks: yeah, it'd be for ubuntu *only*
[07:55] <fidencio> didrocks: I do believe that by taking such move and starting with you (from the really big distros) will make other distro maintainers okay to jump in and take care of their side as well (thinking mainly about opensuse here, for instance)
[07:55] <fidencio> didrocks: wjt, from endless, is already doing such for endlessos
[07:55] <fidencio> didrocks: he even wrote a script to entirely automate the addition of files
[07:55] <didrocks> fidencio: yeah, that makes sense that every distro takes their own part in this. I hope as well that it will help others to get motivated
[07:56] <didrocks> I would love to see that script if we can tweak it for ubuntu
[07:56] <fidencio> didrocks: https://gitlab.com/libosinfo/osinfo-db/blob/master/scripts/updates/endlessos.py
[07:56] <didrocks> thx! :)
[07:57] <fidencio> didrocks: thank you. And I really like how easy is to work with your guys! :-)
[07:58] <didrocks> fidencio: no worry! Thanks for reaching out :) I'll probably update the script/prepare for the LTS in January
[07:58] <didrocks> (end of year, tight deadlines I want to achieve before)
[08:08] <oSoMoN> good morning didrocks, Wimpress, jibel
[08:09] <oSoMoN> dupondje, it needs to be published by the security team, I'm guessing this should happen soon
[08:21] <didrocks> hey oSoMoN
[08:22] <didrocks> (well, hey again)
[08:24] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks (twice is better than none :))
[08:25] <didrocks> heh, indeed!
[08:25] <marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
[08:25] <oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson
[08:33] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
[08:36] <marcustomlinson> hi oSoMoN, didrocks
[09:49] <tjaalton> please don't mark sru bugs 'fix committed', that's reserved for the sru tools to set
[09:49] <tjaalton> 'in progress' seems better?
[16:27] <hellsworth> good late morning desktopers
[16:27] <marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
[16:27] <hellsworth> hey marcustomlinson
[16:27] <marcustomlinson> sorry I never got around to your cherrytree snap
[16:27] <hellsworth> no problem
[16:27] <hellsworth> it's super not urgent :)
[16:27] <hellsworth> and i can take a deeper look too, once i have time
[16:28] <marcustomlinson> it's on my todo - just keeps getting bumped :)
[16:28] <hellsworth> i've been hunting down a bug in snapcraft, found another bug and fixed it, and then had a solution dream last night
[16:28] <hellsworth> so maybe i'll finish my thing and get to look at cherrytree today :)
[16:28] <hellsworth> also it's great when solutions come in dreams :)
[16:28] <marcustomlinson> haha, indeed
[16:28] <hellsworth> and then i shoveled snow today
[16:28] <hellsworth> i'm quite proud of myself :)
[16:29] <hellsworth> and sore :)
[16:29] <hellsworth> lol ok time to do all the things!!
[16:29] <marcustomlinson> though solution dreams are not usually so refreshing
[16:29] <marcustomlinson> usually feel like crap the morning after from my brain being on overdrive
[16:29] <hellsworth> well yes that is where coffee can help make up though
[16:30] <marcustomlinson> hmm, that could be my problem. my wife switched the coffee for decaf
[16:30] <hellsworth> taht dream was in the night and then i got up at 5 to feed the baby and slept another 2 hours so i did get some good sleep
[16:30] <hellsworth> omg that's not right
[16:31] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
[16:31] <hellsworth> hi oSoMoN !
[16:32] <hellsworth> i'm having some friends over this evening where we're going to sample the beer you gave me (and some cured meats i brought back)
[16:32] <hellsworth> so cheers :)
[16:32] <oSoMoN> cheers!
[16:32] <hellsworth> i wish i would have bought more of that bandolera beer. it was so tasty
[17:41] <kenvandine> marcustomlinson: do you have any test snaps that use either of the build snaps and also use vala?
[17:44] <jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, I was looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/1778332/comments/5
[17:45] <jdstrand> kenvandine: I don't have a good place to put the access for this denial. I suggest your use system-files. let me try something
[17:51] <jdstrand> kenvandine: it is fixed with https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jG7CHKvFxF/
[17:51] <jdstrand> kenvandine: is this something you could request in the forum and fix in the snap?
[17:51] <kenvandine> jdstrand: sure
[18:07] <kenvandine> jdstrand: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/requesting-autoconnect-of-system-files-for-gnome-system-monitor/14280
[18:11] <jdstrand> kenvandine: responded, thanks!
[18:13] <kenvandine> jdstrand: once autoconnect is granted, does snapd autoconnect on refresh?
[18:29] <kenvandine> jdstrand: ok, built and in the review queue
[18:37] <marcustomlinson> kenvandine: gnome-calculator
[18:37] <marcustomlinson> https://code.launchpad.net/~marcustomlinson/+git/gnome-calculator
[18:40] <kenvandine> marcustomlinson: when i tried to use the build snap for gnome-2048 meson failed with "Compiler not found: valac"
[18:40] <marcustomlinson> kenvandine: can I see your yaml?
[18:40] <marcustomlinson> which build snap?
[18:43] <hellsworth> with the gnoem-3-34-1804-sdk?
[18:44] <kenvandine> gnome-3-32-1804
[18:45] <kenvandine> +-sdk
[18:45] <kenvandine> because gnome-3-32-1804 is autoconnected
[18:45] <marcustomlinson> sound like something may be missing from your build-environment
[18:46] <kenvandine> i'm comparing
[18:46] <kenvandine> i don't think i am
[18:46] <marcustomlinson> can I see your gnome-2048 yaml
[18:47] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:47] <kenvandine> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Yc6w6qShSz/
[18:48] <marcustomlinson> /snap/gnome-3-32-1804-sdk/nt/usr/lib/vala-current
[18:48] <marcustomlinson> '/nt'
[18:49] <hellsworth> marcustomlinson: you found that quick!
[18:50]  * kenvandine wonders where i got that form
[18:50] <marcustomlinson> current
[18:50] <marcustomlinson> -curre
[18:50] <marcustomlinson> but there's also $SNAPCRAFT_STAGE in your env
[18:51] <kenvandine> i dropped LDFLAGS and now it works :)
[18:52] <marcustomlinson> :)
[18:52] <hellsworth> why would that make it work though?
[18:53] <kenvandine> the LDFLAGS didn't include paths to what was in the build snap
[18:53] <hellsworth> both of those LDFLAGS are in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[18:53] <kenvandine> LDFLAGS are used at build time
[18:53] <kenvandine> LD_LIBRARY_PATH are for runtime
[18:54] <kenvandine> we need both though
[18:54] <marcustomlinson> you shouldn't need LDFLAGS if the pkgconfigs are correct
[18:54] <hellsworth> I SEE
[18:54] <hellsworth> oh caps
[18:56] <kenvandine> yeah, the danger of copy/paste :)
[18:56] <kenvandine> marcustomlinson: thanks!
[18:56] <marcustomlinson> np
[19:06] <hellsworth> how do i know what env vars i could use in the environment section?
[19:06] <hellsworth> like in gimp, i see that there is GIMP2_LOCALEDIR that is defined and used. how the heck would i know that GIMP2_LOCALEDIR is even an option to use?
[19:06] <kenvandine> reading the gimp source
[19:07] <kenvandine> i'd bet
[19:07] <hellsworth> hmm
[19:07] <kenvandine> that's a gimp specific env variable
[19:07] <hellsworth> right
[19:07] <hellsworth> ok i'll go take a look at the glimpse source to see if this is used or something similar
[19:07] <kenvandine> grep for LOCALEDIR
[19:07] <kenvandine> they might have just renamed it GLIMPSE_LOCALEDIR
[19:08] <kenvandine> but hopefully they made it smarter :)
[19:08] <hellsworth> it is apparently still GIMP2_LOCALEDIR
[19:08] <hellsworth> there's still quite a bit of rebranding that needs to be done
[19:08] <hellsworth> thanks kenvandine
[19:42] <oSoMoN> have a good week-end all!


[06:23] <Kilos> good morning nhaines  and everyone else
[06:26] <dholbach> good morning
[06:26] <Kilos> hi dholbach
[06:27] <dholbach> hi Kilos
[19:04] <mhall119> nhaines: jose: svij: Do you guys know which UbuCon was the first?
[19:04] <mhall119> or really, what order they were started?
[19:09] <pleia2> it's not well updated (none of the SCALE ones are there), but there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubucon which should have accurate historical ones at least
[19:32] <mhall119> thanks pleia2
[19:33] <mhall119> oh wow,more than I knew about :)
[21:30] <Leo_> Alguem online
[21:31] <Leo_> Pra tira duvidas sobre ubuntu
[21:31] <Leo_> Ola gente


[17:01] <fidencio> cyphermox: hey/ping
[17:03] <fidencio> cyphermox: tried here to perform an express installation on a livecd and, as recommended by you, passing "only-ubiquity automatic-ubiquity" to the command line
[17:04] <fidencio> it boots, but doesn't start the installer
[17:05] <fidencio> oh, it stopped and seems that I'm on ash. I can see (initramfs)
[17:05] <fidencio> the same preseed file that I'm using works properly for a server ISO
[17:08] <cyphermox> that shouldn't happen. even if the command-line is wrong you'd still get a live session or ubiquity on a desktop image, not just failing and dropping to the initramfs
[17:08] <cyphermox> any errors show up?
[17:10] <fidencio> nops, any obvious error.
[17:11] <fidencio> I'm trying with 15.10 live iso
[17:11] <fidencio> I know, maybe would be better to try with 16.04, but then it means adding support on something else on libosinf that I've been postponing :-)
[17:14] <cyphermox> it shouldn't be a big difference
[17:15] <cyphermox> clearly something is happening, but I don't know what. Maybe try removing only-ubiquity, and run ubiquity --automatic from the live session to see if at least that runs correctly?
[17:18] <fidencio> okay, let me give it a try
[17:31] <fidencio> cyphermox: yeah, uniquity --automatic works fine from a live session
[17:32] <fidencio> cyphermox: maybe a stupid question, does ubiquity understands debian-installer commands?
[17:32] <cyphermox> fidencio: ok, then does booting with just only-ubiquity work? that should get you the non-automatic, non-live (installer-only) session
[17:33] <cyphermox> fidencio: for the most part, yes, with some additions, and some features from d-i that we just don't expose (but you can still preseed)
[17:33] <cyphermox> that wouldn't get the installer to not start, though
[17:37] <fidencio> cyphermox: hmm. stops at busybox again
[17:37] <fidencio> cyphermox: any idea on how to check for some issue there?
[17:39] <cyphermox> I'm not sure, you should definitely see some error messages
[17:40] <cyphermox> maybe boot with verbose in case they're just hidden because of plymouth?
[17:40] <cyphermox> in any case, this means the issue isn't the preseed, but the environment itself
[17:41] <cyphermox> if you're netbooting; the paths for files tends to be different. It wouldn't cause it to work for live and not work for only-ubiquity though
[17:43] <fidencio> cyphermox: I'm not netbooting.
[17:43] <cyphermox> oh, I thought you were
[17:48] <fidencio> would it make any difference?
[17:52] <cyphermox> well, only if you did the paths wrong on tftp
[17:53] <cyphermox> fidencio: so, perhaps it's time to consider trying your preseeding with a 16.04 image?
[17:54] <fidencio> cyphermox: yeap, let me go for it. if it doesn't work I'll take as "preseed only server ISOs"
[17:58] <cyphermox> well, like I said, preseeding desktop installs is supposed to work too