[00:27] <belkinsa> Hey there, skellat.
[00:27] <skellat> Hello
[00:27] <belkinsa> How are you?
[00:27] <skellat> Trying to stay warm
[00:27] <skellat> I salted the driveway and there was a plow truck out
[00:27] <skellat> Thankfully we've **still** got salt for messes like this
[00:28] <belkinsa> That's good to hear.  Down here is wet but no snow.
[00:28] <skellat> Snow and Ice
[00:28] <skellat> March is almost over
[00:29] <skellat> Makes me miss living in the south Pacific
[00:29] <skellat> And Nevada
[00:40] <belkinsa> Meeting in less than 20 minutes.
[00:50] <belkinsa> Meeting in 10 minutes.
[00:55] <skellat> Will anybody show up for said meeting?
[00:55] <belkinsa> I hope so.
[00:56] <belkinsa> Meeting in less than 5 minutes.
[00:57] <skellat> https://twitter.com/UbuntuOhio/status/450002188916375552
[00:57] <jenni> [ Twitter / UbuntuOhio: There is a meeting tonight ... ] - https://j.mp/1rR8OGm
[00:57] <skellat><PHONE_NUMBER>16375552
[00:57] <skellat> Hmm, jenni doesn't read tweets anymore
[00:58] <belkinsa> I saw this used in another LoCo's meeting.
[00:58] <belkinsa> So the topic is set to what the topic is in the meeting.
[00:59] <skellat> belkinsa: Meetingology does that a lot in its various incarnations across the channels
[00:59] <belkinsa> I know, but we don't have that bot.
[00:59] <skellat> jrgifford unit193: PING
[01:00] <belkinsa> The meeting is starting!
[01:00] <skellat> Good evening everyone and welcome to the March 2014 meeting for Ubuntu Ohio
[01:00] <skellat> My name is Stephen Michael Kellat and I am the often absent Point of Contact/Leader for this LoCo Team
[01:01] <skellat> If you are here to attend tonight's meeting, please consult the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgendaMarch2014
[01:01] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgendaMarch2014 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1rR9n2U
[01:01] <skellat> We're going to pause now so that people can raise their hands or otherwise signify their attendance
[01:01]  * belkinsa is here!
[01:03]  * jrgifford raises hand
[01:04] <skellat> Is anybody else in attendance for tonight's meeting?  If so, please signify your attendance politely while the meeting proceeds tonight.
[01:04] <skellat> I am going to deviate briefly from the agenda to speak about a special topic.
[01:05] <skellat> There have been questions raised about "the death of the LoCo" in the abstract throughout the Ubuntu community.
[01:05] <skellat> In fact, this was even put forward as a topic for my partners on the Ubuntu UK Podcast to cover
[01:05] <skellat> From the LoCo Council perspective, we do have a strong core of teams in Europe
[01:05] <skellat> We have healthy teams in Asia
[01:06] <skellat> We even have teams in Africa that are excited about Ubuntu and where LoCos are thriving
[01:06] <skellat> The biggest problem comes down to the United States
[01:06] <jrgifford> and in the US, we're basically a barren wasteland
[01:06] <jrgifford> or we're highly dysfunctional.
[01:06] <belkinsa> Correct.
[01:06] <skellat> jrgifford: Pretty much dysfunctional
[01:06] <belkinsa> But why?
[01:06] <skellat> 3 LoCos have fallen into the direct ownership of the LoCo Council
[01:07] <skellat> All three within US states
[01:07] <skellat> For the most part this is a phenomenon we're seeing in the United States and not seeing elsewhere on Earth
[01:07]  * skellat notes that we don't have any major Ubuntu deployments in space while Debian is on the International Space Station
[01:08] <skellat> Much of this is a cultural shift in the United States alone
[01:08] <jrgifford> In a iPhone centric culture, I've had a very difficult time getting my non-technical peers involved with Ubuntu
[01:08] <skellat> LoCo Council over the past week was already working on plans to get around issues with Moroccan customs to get discs for 14.04 into Morocco for the LoCo there
[01:09] <skellat> We've been working to get the Kingdom of Spain's communities unified
[01:09] <skellat> The Venezuelan LoCo...
[01:09] <skellat> ...has been asking for lots and lots of stuff...
[01:09] <skellat> ...and we have had to tell them to slow down as resources are not infinite.
[01:11] <skellat> jrgifford: I'm tentatively agreeing that this is a cultural shift.  Not everybody wants to be a developer.  A key difference between the work of Canonical Community Team and the LoCo Council is that CCT assumes people want to become developers on a path of ever greater enlightenment while LoCo Council works on supporting communities across Earth.
[01:11] <jrgifford> eh, i wouldn't even say that it has to be "become a developer"
[01:12] <jrgifford> but (as I was discussing with someone yesterday) we are becoming a world where things just work, and we aren't curious about how to do things outside of that box.
[01:12] <jrgifford> anyway, i'm derailing the conversation.
[01:12] <skellat> By terms of analogy, we're in a period similar to the 1950s with automobiles.  You could be a gearhead who knows everything about how your car works and be fine-tuning it or be instead somebody simply looking for a simple sedan to just drive around and let somebody else worry about maintenance.
[01:14] <jrgifford> precisely.
[01:14]  * belkinsa nods
[01:14] <skellat> With this in mind, there is some minor discussion that has cropped up from time to time at LoCo Council about wiping the slate clean of having state teams in the United States and having a single national team that organized itself internally however it saw fit.
[01:15] <belkinsa> I don't see that possible.
[01:15] <skellat> It would be taking a page from Brazil, in this case
[01:15] <belkinsa> I mean it's against the nature of USA.
[01:15] <skellat> Brazil has a single national team on Launchpad but internally is sub-divided into state groups or smaller
[01:15] <belkinsa> Oh.  Maybe that could work that way.
[01:16] <skellat> I want to alert the Ohio community that this has come up for the fourth time or so in discussion at LoCo Council but has not yet come to a vote
[01:17] <skellat> Things may yet change but LoCo Council is actively committed to changing things up as needed including yelling at CCT
[01:17] <Unit193> Doesn't seem like a useful choice to me.
[01:18] <skellat> Unit193: I'm not the proposer.
[01:18] <skellat> I've tried to stomp on this but I  only have 1 vote
[01:19] <Unit193> Ones like CA seem to work for them, OH isn't very active, so would have to do different things than CA, trying to manage them the same wouldn't be useful.
[01:19] <belkinsa> If there is a vote about doing what Brazil is doing, I would say that I have my +1 on the idea.  But!  I would to see the plan first that you guys have.
[01:19] <Unit193> s/, t/.  T/
[01:19] <jenni> Unit193 meant to say: Ones like CA seem to work for them, OH isn't very active, so would have to do different things than CA.  Trying to manage them the same wouldn't be useful.
[01:20] <skellat> Thankfully nothing is that far along yet.  I just want to keep everybody in the loop.  California & Ohio are the strongest of the state teams in the US.
[01:20] <Unit193> That's not really a good sign I'd say, since all we do is pretty much OLF once a year.
[01:21] <skellat> No, it isn't.
[01:21] <skellat> I thank Unit193 for the segue into OLF 2014 discussion.
[01:21] <belkinsa> Ready, or no?
[01:21] <skellat> As noted in the agenda, we have a series of questions to discuss in the matter.
[01:22] <skellat> We're not going to repeat 2013 of OLF being coordinated by a single person
[01:22] <skellat> I lost too much sleep last year
[01:22] <skellat> Being a federal employee also restricts my availability in novel yet bizarre ways too
[01:22] <skellat> From the agenda: "1. Do we wish to engage with OLF at all after they hit us &  Canonical up for money in 2013 due to a budget shortfall on their part?   Will we need to raise funds to ensure our participation this year?  The  Canonical Community Team's Community Budget is neither vast nor  infinite to draw upon. "
[01:23] <skellat> I don't have any new details about OLF's budget.
[01:24] <skellat> They had a sponsor pull out on them last year unexpectedly which created the shortfall.
[01:24] <belkinsa> What is the budgets, OLF and CCTC's?
[01:24] <belkinsa> in numbers.
[01:25] <skellat> Canonical Community Team's budget isn't a figure officially available to me but it really isn't all that much.
[01:25] <belkinsa> Alright, just wondering.
[01:26] <skellat> Assume only tens of thousands
[01:26] <jrgifford> that's still a fair chunk of change.
[01:26] <jrgifford> however, we can't count on that
[01:26] <skellat> Bingo
[01:26] <jrgifford> soo..... my question is "how much do we want to do, if anything"?
[01:27] <skellat> Yeah
[01:27] <skellat> The sponsorship levels cost chart for OLF 2014 is shown here: http://ohiolinux.org/sponsorship
[01:27] <jenni> [ 2014 Sponsorship Opportunities | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rReBvv
[01:27] <skellat> And these are their only known sponsors so far: http://ohiolinux.org/sponsors
[01:27] <jenni> [ Sponsors | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rReFLS
[01:27] <skellat> That is to say, they've got web hosting & e-mail provided for...and that is all!
[01:28] <skellat> I feel confident we can come in at the $100 level for having a table again
[01:29] <jrgifford> yeah, i'm sure we can do that at least
[01:29] <belkinsa> +1
[01:29] <skellat> If they bump us up to $500 for the "Bronze" level then we either need CCT backing or we walk away
[01:29] <jrgifford> however, was ubucon a success or not last year?
[01:29] <skellat> jrgifford: What is your success metric?
[01:30] <jrgifford> skellat:  people came, showed interest
[01:30] <belkinsa> But how much?
[01:30] <jrgifford> i set low standards for "success", because you always need improvement
[01:30] <Darkwing> you have a link for your Ubucon schedule last year?
[01:30] <skellat> I didn't keep a good door count as I had too much stage management to do
[01:31] <Darkwing> We had quite a bit of success from it in California at SCALE when I was there.
[01:31] <jrgifford> Darkwing: SCALE is also a HUGE event
[01:31] <skellat> Darkwing: I'll have to dig it out of the e-mail archives since whatever was on OLF's web site got trashed in a total re-design
[01:31] <Darkwing> jrgifford: Oh trust me, I know.
[01:31]  * skellat notes that the e-mail archive dig might take a few hours
[01:31] <belkinsa> Darkwing, OLF is not really that huge as SCALE.
[01:31] <jrgifford> OLF is tiny compared to SCALE.
[01:31] <jrgifford> so... it's not really a fair comparision
[01:31] <Darkwing> Been to both. I'm in Fort Wayne, IN and I help put together a few SCALES.
[01:32] <jrgifford> i think ubucon for us might be worth passing over
[01:32] <Darkwing> No, but there can tips that might bleed over.
[01:32] <Darkwing> back when I was out ther.
[01:32] <Darkwing> *there
[01:33] <jrgifford> because while i'm sure we can get speakers, we might not be able to get people to come and watch
[01:33] <jrgifford> or we could do a half day of workshops
[01:33] <skellat> jrgifford: That's what I was worried about.  Outside myself and Jon Buckley speaking we couldn't generate a native roster of speakers.  System76 saved us with their people and connections as did Jorge Castro.
[01:33] <Darkwing> I'll do one.
[01:33] <jrgifford> skellat: jorge is almost native. Michigan. ;p
[01:33] <Darkwing> My focus is mostly KDE again.
[01:34] <skellat> jrgifford: Darkwing counts by that measure then
[01:34] <Unit193> Darkwing: \o/
[01:34] <Darkwing> Yes Unit193, I'm back LOL
[01:34] <skellat> Darkwing: I have no problem with that.  I'm part of Xubuntu Team.  Purity in usage of Unity is not required here.
[01:34] <Unit193> IN might as well be sisters with OH, they have the same weather.
[01:35] <Darkwing> Unit193: No kidding.
[01:35] <Unit193> Darkwing: Like the snow? :P
[01:35] <Darkwing> Unit193: It's not San Diego LOL
[01:35] <jrgifford> skellat, Darkwing - i'm more of a server guy lately
[01:35] <Darkwing> So, we have at least K, X and Server covered.
[01:35] <belkinsa> Seems os.
[01:35] <belkinsa> so*
[01:35] <Unit193> If you aren't counting talks, I'm in for X and server.
[01:36] <skellat> Darkwing: Which at our exhibition table was where a lot of our interest was anyhow.
[01:36] <jrgifford> spend my desktop time in microsoft land (ew), and my working end in server.
[01:36] <jrgifford> i could do a talk on the home server
[01:36] <Darkwing> Yeah, I was only there half a day last OLF but, your booth seemed to generate a lot of buzz.
[01:36] <jrgifford> could fill an hour or so with that.
[01:36] <Darkwing> I can toss Touch on my Nexus 7
[01:36] <jrgifford> "Linux for the Home Server, and why we should all have one in our basement"
[01:37] <Darkwing> ++
[01:37] <belkinsa> I was thinking the same is having Touch on one of the Nexuses
[01:37] <belkinsa> jrgifford, +1
[01:37] <jrgifford> by then i could probably have my nexus 4 back up and running
[01:37] <jrgifford> and put it on that
[01:37] <Darkwing> What we did for SCALE Ubucon... Intro to Ubuntu, Flavors and a couple of misc Hot to or why talks.
[01:37] <skellat> Restating the question again: "1. Do we wish to engage with OLF at all after they hit us &  Canonical up for money in 2013 due to a budget shortfall on their part?   Will we need to raise funds to ensure our participation this year?  The  Canonical Community Team's Community Budget is neither vast nor  infinite to draw upon. "  It looks we'll need to pass around the hat to get $100 but we can manage this.
[01:37] <belkinsa> And I have Nexus 7 2013
[01:38] <jrgifford> skellat: yes, we can pass the hat
[01:38] <Darkwing> I rely on Ingress too much to flip my Nexus 4
[01:38] <belkinsa> I agree.  Pass the hat.
[01:38] <Darkwing> I'll toss some $$ in the hat.
[01:38] <skellat> Next on the agenda: "2. Shall we present another UbuCon?  If yes, can we organically generate presentations from within the community this time? "
[01:38] <jrgifford> and if we need more than that, if i'm given a few weeks notice i can probably dig up a "corporate sponsor".
[01:38] <jrgifford> or two.
[01:38] <jrgifford> (to cover the shortfall)
[01:39] <Darkwing> jrgifford: What we did in Cali was sell T-Shirts
[01:39] <jrgifford> Darkwing: oh, i know a screen printer. we might be able to do that...
[01:39] <belkinsa> skellat, I guess we sort of talked about that.
[01:39] <Darkwing> The first year we did that, we took orders, made enough to provide each year after.
[01:39] <skellat> Do we want to shoot for UbuCon **or** submit workshops here: http://ohiolinux.org/content/call-presentations-now-open
[01:39] <jenni> [ Call for Presentations Now Open - UPDATED | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rRh1Ky
[01:40] <belkinsa> jrgifford, but the shirts need to be pre-srunk cotton.
[01:40] <jrgifford> belkinsa: if we want to investigate, i can talk to him
[01:40] <belkinsa> Sure.
[01:40] <skellat> belkinsa, jrgifford: I'm sure we could try Daffy Dan's in downtown Cleveland as they're a good vendor
[01:40] <belkinsa> Sure to that also.
[01:41] <jrgifford> skellat: we can investigate, if we want. sounds like we do, so i'll add that to my list
[01:41] <skellat> Are we going with an UbuCon or workshops or trying both?
[01:41] <jrgifford> dunno. we're kinda wandering in circles around that point.
[01:41] <belkinsa> Yeah, seems so.
[01:41] <skellat> Okay, we're parking that issue to come back to.
[01:41] <skellat> Next agenda item: "3. Shall we have a table in the exhibitors area?  Free tables are  basically gone after last year's proceedings.  Canonical only  distributes discs for the LTS so we'd have to generate our own  distribution copies of 14.10.  Canonical only distributes Ubuntu desktop  & server LTS discs but I am, of course, certainly biased in favor  of having a few copies of Xubuntu available at least. "
[01:42] <skellat> Table cost is $100.
[01:42] <skellat> Media for distribution is whatever we decide we want to do
[01:42] <skellat> People like freebies
[01:42] <jrgifford> ok
[01:42] <jrgifford> so do we want to investigate getting a bunch of ohio loco branded usb keys?
[01:43] <skellat> The only thing given out in 2013 was business cards & a lot of hot air from me evangelizing
[01:43] <belkinsa> Would LIVE USB sticks be an idea?
[01:43] <jrgifford> 1GB/2GB big, then we can put anything on it.
[01:43]  * skellat notes he can occasionally be heard in a pulpit preaching on some Sunday mornings
[01:43] <jrgifford> get a PCI card that does usb 2.0, a couple of extender cables, and then have all the ISOs on hand?
[01:43] <jrgifford> takes about 7 minutes to make a USB key, that is bootable.
[01:44] <jrgifford> using the good ol' dd.
[01:44] <skellat> jrgifford: We don't get power for free
[01:44] <jrgifford> skellat: how much for power?
[01:44] <skellat> Space will be limited
[01:44] <skellat> jrgifford: We'll need to ask
[01:44] <jrgifford> we'd need 2 plugs, or even someones laptop that has usb3 + a hub.
[01:44] <belkinsa> I have a 2.0 hub.
[01:45] <skellat> Space will be verily limited so we would want some collateral ready to hand out during rush periods
[01:45] <jrgifford> true
[01:45] <jrgifford> software wise, piece of cake.
[01:45] <Darkwing> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Promotional-OEM-swivel-usb-business-card_1492323694.html
[01:45] <jenni> [ Promotional Oem Swivel Usb Business Card - Buy Swivel Usb Business Card,Usb Business Card,Oem Swivel Usb Business Card Product on Alibaba.com ] - https://j.mp/1rRhPz2
[01:45] <belkinsa> Maybe have some pre-installed live USB of each favour?
[01:45] <belkinsa> Or that.
[01:45] <skellat> belkinsa: That's the idea
[01:46] <skellat> K,X,G,L,Mainline
[01:46] <skellat> No to Kylin
[01:46] <belkinsa> Mainline = Ubuntu?
[01:46] <skellat> Yes
[01:46] <belkinsa> Okay, just checking.
[01:48] <skellat> Okay, moving forward while keeping Darkwing's idea in mind.
[01:48] <skellat> From the agenda en bloc: "4. Way too early for a head count but we'll need to hope 6+ months notice is enough time for people to plan on coming. 5. Key signing...we're going to do one this time darn it! 6. What else would the community like to do at OLF 2014?  "
[01:49] <skellat> As to 4, we reach out to the community as best we can.
[01:49] <skellat> As to 5, would anybody like to put that forward as a Saturday workshop?
[01:49] <jrgifford> 4. yeah, true. 5. yes, please! 6. dunno. group photo? swap stories?
[01:49] <jrgifford> skellat: i'd be interested in doing that
[01:49] <jrgifford> (the key signing)
[01:50] <belkinsa> 4. I will come 5. sure, if not super early, 6.DOn't too.
[01:50] <belkinsa> Don't know*
[01:50] <belkinsa> super early= before 8 AM
[01:50] <skellat> jrgifford: Your mission will then be to navigate this and get it cleared by OLF as a scheduled session: http://ohiolinux.org/CFP
[01:50] <jenni> [ Call for Presentations | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rRiDnD
[01:51] <skellat> Okay
[01:51] <skellat> Unit193, any input oh hiding one?
[01:51] <Unit193> Nope.
[01:51] <skellat> Good enough.
[01:51] <skellat> Returning to the parking lot to pick up a stalled issue: "2. Shall we present another UbuCon?  If yes, can we organically generate presentations from within the community this time? "
[01:52] <jrgifford> i think the consensus is that we could probably organically do workshops
[01:52] <skellat> As to the UbuCon?
[01:52] <skellat> Let it lay or make the attempt?
[01:52]  * belkinsa nods to jrgifford
[01:53] <jrgifford> we've got at least one idea, perhaps another one on how to anonymize yourself on the internet could be appropriate.
[01:53] <jrgifford> skellat: for the ubucon
[01:53] <skellat> Okay
[01:53] <jrgifford> we could make an attempt, but it'd be a afternoon of workshops if we did it
[01:53] <jrgifford> i think Unit193 would be perfect to lead the anonymize yourself talk
[01:53] <skellat> Yes, yes indeed.
[01:53] <skellat> :-)
[01:53] <Unit193> >_>
[01:53] <jrgifford> lol ;p
[01:53] <belkinsa> lol
[01:54] <skellat> Okay
[01:54] <skellat> It sounds like we are in a good position
[01:54] <belkinsa> Seems so.
[01:55] <skellat> belkinsa: Could you please do a write-up on the meeting to post to your blog?
[01:55] <jrgifford> and we've got enough time that assuming the OLF folks don't need it finalized tomorrow, we could get enough people
[01:55] <belkinsa> skellat, sure.  On it but tomorrow.
[01:55] <skellat> jrgifford: They changed their minds on deadline thankfully so it isn't in 3 weeks now
[01:55] <skellat> Like it was as of yesterday
[01:55] <Unit193> How many talks are needed?
[01:55] <jrgifford> skellat: would they need the ubucon lineup finalized?
[01:56] <skellat> jrgifford: Not initially
[01:56] <jrgifford> like, i know confs in august that aren't going to have anything finalized until like, first of june at the earliest.
[01:56] <skellat> 60-90 days beforehand most likely
[01:56] <jrgifford> the CFP ends last week of may.
[01:56] <jrgifford> hoping to announce first of june, but even they admit it'll probably be mid june, if not july. :P
[01:57] <skellat> Yeah
[01:57] <skellat> Unit193: As to talks, 4-7 would be needed, depending on length
[01:57] <jrgifford> ok, so we have a little time to grow the talks from the community
[01:57] <jrgifford> fantastic
[01:58] <skellat> I had to do backup on one talk that went way too short and basically do stand-up improv
[01:58] <jrgifford> stand-up improv is always fun, but rarely productive.
[01:59] <skellat> When you need to not lose your audience before the next session and have to fill 40 minutes, you do what you must
[01:59] <Unit193> Well presuming the people that said they know the subject, you have 3 just from this meeting.  (KDE, Server, and Xfce.)
[01:59] <jrgifford> i know a canonical cloud guy in pittsburgh who might be interested
[01:59] <jrgifford> so we can reach out to people
[02:00] <jrgifford> we've got a little time to get it figured out
[02:00] <belkinsa> +1 for reaching out
[02:00] <skellat> The newly elected Colorado leader will likely be willing to make a repeat visit
[02:00] <jenni> oh baby
[02:00]  * skellat **SMACKS** jenni
[02:00] <skellat> Okay
[02:00] <skellat> Thank you belkinsa unit193 jrgifford for all that you do
[02:00] <Darkwing> We might be able to get someone to do an overview of Ubuntu...
[02:00] <belkinsa> Not a problem.
[02:01] <jrgifford> Darkwing: "Hello, and welcome to the whirlwind tour of the community, software, and squabbles."
[02:01] <Darkwing> LOL
[02:01] <Unit193> COolorado?
[02:01] <Darkwing> I'm a Kubuntu guy... Used to it.
[02:01] <jrgifford> "Disclaimer: I will offend a third, delight a third, and make 3 quarters of you very uncomfortable and happy with yourselves"
[02:01] <jrgifford> *next slide*
[02:01] <jrgifford> "And yes, I can math. 10."
[02:02] <jrgifford> *next slide* "Unity: Then, now, and gaming engines?"
[02:02] <jrgifford> ;p
[02:02] <belkinsa> lol
[02:02] <Darkwing> LOL
[02:02] <jrgifford> i couldn't do that with a straight face.
[02:03] <Darkwing> Open discussion... Mir vs Wayland. I'll go get some coffee.
[02:03] <skellat> Unit193: Yes, Emma Marshall of System76.  You do remember System76 is based in Colorado, right?
[02:03] <Unit193> Ah, that's who.
[02:03] <skellat> Okay
[02:03] <Unit193> Darkwing: Ahaha!
[02:03] <jrgifford> Darkwing: come back in a decade and we'll have a winner that is just as bad as X11.
[02:03] <Unit193> Nice.
[02:03] <belkinsa> skellat, end meeting?
[02:03]  * Unit193 played with Wayland just this week.
[02:03] <skellat> It sounds like we're done.  I need somebody to help belkinsa get her blog listed on planet.u.c
[02:04] <jrgifford> belkinsa: poke me tomorrow
[02:04] <skellat> belkinsa, please do a write-up as you see fit
[02:04] <jrgifford> i don't have anything tomorrow afternoon
[02:04] <jrgifford> so i can help with that
[02:04] <belkinsa> Sure tthing.
[02:04] <belkinsa> After 5, jrgifford?
[02:04] <jrgifford> sure
[02:04] <belkinsa> 5 PM*
[02:04] <belkinsa> Cool.
[02:04] <skellat> Chatter at work remains a furlough is likely any time after D-day on April 15th.  I'll get 5 days notice if I get furloughed.  Once that happens, I'll have a ton of time available for community affairs again.
[02:05] <skellat> So, goodnight belkinsa
[02:05] <skellat> Goodnight jrgifford
[02:05] <skellat> Goodnight Unit193
[02:05] <Unit193> G'night.
[02:05] <skellat> Goodnight Darkwing
[02:05] <belkinsa> Night all.  Thanks for the meeting.
[02:05] <jrgifford> Night skellat. Hang in there!
[02:05] <jrgifford> Thanks for coming all.
[02:05]  * skellat disappears
[02:05] <Darkwing> Night skellat
[02:05] <belkinsa> Indeed, hang in there.
[02:06] <jenni> oh baby
[02:06]  * Darkwing raises an eye to jenni
[02:06]  * jrgifford frowns at jenni
[02:07] <Unit193> Speaking of KDE, I haven't checked out 14.04 yet...
[02:07] <jrgifford> I should. I think my next non-windows back will be KDE.
[02:07] <jrgifford> Which will actually be my work desktop, hopefully.
[02:07] <jrgifford> *box, not back.
[02:08] <Unit193> I know what I like, and KDE isn't really it, but I don't exactly dislike KDE.
[02:08]  * Unit193 frowns at the download speed.
[02:09] <Unit193> Used to have a couple KDE people here.
[02:09] <Darkwing> I should pop 14.04 in a VM
[02:09] <Darkwing> I've been doing more python and web devel lately.
[02:10] <Darkwing> I am just getting back into the swing of FOSS again.
[02:10] <Darkwing> However, I am starting to miss parts of Unity.
[02:11] <Unit193> Unity I have no interest at all in, so won't be seeing 14.04 of that.
[02:11] <jrgifford> I use windows, I miss parts of unity. I go to Unity on my Netbook, I miss parts of windows workflow.
[02:11] <jrgifford> Unity comes close to my style. So does the windows keyboard shortcut system. But both miss enough that I'm unhappy.
[02:11] <jrgifford> :(
[02:11] <Unit193> Mmmm, couple windows things are slightly handy, yep.  I tend to miss more Xfce on Windows than the reverse, though.
[02:12] <jrgifford> It's equal for me.
[02:12] <jrgifford> One common thing is the ability to tile windows easily.
[02:13] <jrgifford> I need to do that (all my monitors), but nothing cuts it short of an actual tiling WM. Which I can't stand for other reasons.
[02:13] <Darkwing> I keep finding myself coming back to Kubuntu
[02:13] <Darkwing> *shrugs*
[02:13] <Darkwing> I managed 4 months off of KDE.
[02:15] <Unit193> And the swing of FOSS, can't say I'm technically ever fully there. :/
[02:16] <Darkwing> Well, I was back when I was doing a lot with Kubuntu, council and such.
[02:17] <Darkwing> But, I took a long vaca from that sort of thing.
[02:17] <Unit193> I'm quite involved with Xubuntu, but logs, bugs, mailing lists (well, sending to them), and the FSF really irk me.
[02:17] <Unit193> s/logs/public logs/
[02:17] <jenni> Unit193 meant to say: I'm quite involved with Xubuntu, but public logs, bugs, mailing lists (well, sending to them), and the FSF really irk me.
[02:19] <jrgifford> Hmm. Favorite OS just came to me.
[02:19] <jrgifford> Basically, boot to VM.
[02:19] <Darkwing> I got irked witht eh Mir vs Wayland war... (still am)
[02:20] <Unit193> I still think mir is more of a fad, a thing of the present, not the future.
[02:20] <jrgifford> Or more accurately, a hypervisor that makes each VM boot onto a different TTY. then I can switch at will. :p /end tangent
[02:20] <jrgifford> Mir is odd.
[02:20] <jrgifford> Dunno what to think yet.
[02:20] <Unit193> Hah. :P
[02:21] <jrgifford> I would pay for a license for that. Does that exist? Someone please tell me that exists. :p
[02:21] <Unit193> Darkwing: Is there much out there in terms of LoCos?
[02:22] <Darkwing> Unit193: Not in IN.
[02:22] <Unit193> Meh, family out there.
[02:22] <Darkwing> Not really a functional LUG in Fort Wayne either.
[02:23] <Unit193> Seems there's a functional one in Akron at least.
[02:23] <Darkwing> Was going to try something but, while my desktop is Kubuntu, my laptop is now a chromebook.
[02:26] <Darkwing> Plus, anymore, the wife and I spend most of our time in Ingress lol
[21:57] <belkinsa> jrgifford, ready?


[06:54] <inetpro> good morning
[07:42] <Squirm> ooooh, Pretoria tomorrow
[09:53] <charlvn> Squirm: what's happening in pretoria tomorrow?
[10:05] <superfly> morning
[10:05] <superfly> er, afternoon
[10:31] <charlvn> hi superfly
[10:39] <superfly> hey charlvn
[12:35] <zeref> ...
[12:37] <charlvn> hi zeref
[14:45] <zeref> finally finished programming project
[14:45] <zeref> :D
[16:20] <inetpro> zeref: well done
[16:20] <inetpro> zeref: have you submitted?
[16:57] <mazal> Evening all
[17:09] <smile> hi :p
[17:12] <Banlam> smile is always so happy :)
[17:12] <smile> yes :)
[17:12] <smile> it's hot :p
[17:12] <smile> outside :)
[17:12] <Banlam> really
[17:13] <Banlam> you're in belgium or somewhere?
[17:13] <Banlam> or am i getting people mixed ip?
[17:13] <Banlam> up*
[17:14] <smile> belgium :D
[17:14] <smile> :)
[17:15] <Banlam> is that a yes?
[17:22] <smile> Banlam: jap! :)
[17:22] <smile> :p
[17:22] <smile> Banlam: and you are from south africa :p
[17:23] <Banlam> I am yes
[17:24] <smile> ^^
[17:29] <smile> cool :)
[17:29] <smile> Banlam: in europe it's very hot atm
[17:29] <smile> there also? :p
[17:29] <Banlam> haha
[17:29] <Banlam> not really
[17:30] <Banlam> it doesn't get as cold as winters there
[17:30] <Banlam> but we don't consider it warm
[17:32] <smile> how "warm"? :p
[17:32] <smile> :)
[17:34] <Banlam> where I am it never drops below 0, if it drops below 5 I'll be surprised
[17:34] <Banlam> the weeks forecast is min 10 max 20 most days
[17:34] <Banlam> which is chilly
[17:34] <Banlam> but some warm clothes and one is comforable
[17:35] <smile> yes :)
[17:35]  * smile is jealous :p
[17:35] <Banlam> haha
[17:35] <smile> minus 5 is not unusual :p
[17:36] <smile> and in summer it's 23 - 32 :)
[17:39]  * Banlam likes the 'cold'
[17:44] <charlvn> hi all
[17:44] <highvoltage> howdy
[17:44] <inetpro> good evening
[17:44] <charlvn> hi highvoltage
[17:44] <charlvn> hi inetpro
[17:44] <inetpro> wb highvoltage
[17:45] <highvoltage> how are things?
[17:45] <charlvn> hi Banlam, smile
[17:45] <Banlam> gd evening
[17:45] <charlvn> highvoltage: good good, long time no speak to, yourself?
[17:45] <inetpro> highvoltage: cool in Pretoria and there?
[17:45] <highvoltage> charlvn: yep doing good thanks
[17:46] <highvoltage> inetpro: 27°C here
[17:46] <inetpro> yikes
[17:46] <inetpro> highvoltage: in Canada?
[17:46] <highvoltage> yeah. there is a few weeks of nice weather every year, at least :)
[17:47] <inetpro> nice to see #ubuntu-za gathering a few foreigners in here
[17:47] <inetpro> not that highvoltage is a foreigner of course
[17:48] <highvoltage> nah mars is a local planet
[17:48] <inetpro> :-)
[17:48] <charlvn> irc is teh international
[17:49] <inetpro> highvoltage: how's things going with edubuntu?
[17:49] <highvoltage> inetpro: taking on a lot of work for the next cycle, reviving the server part and also dabbling with tablets. 12.04 was a very good release.
[17:49] <inetpro> sounds good
[17:50] <inetpro> at least you still sound as passionate as ever
[17:51] <highvoltage> nah I just have no life :)
[17:51] <inetpro> haha
[17:52] <charlvn> live is for noobs
[17:52] <charlvn> *life
[17:52] <smile> charlvn: hi! :D
[17:52] <highvoltage> yeah
[17:52] <charlvn> live is not for noobs because irc is live
[17:53] <smile> inetpro: i'm not foreign :p i'm a belg! :p
[17:53] <inetpro> heh smile, you just keep smiling!
[17:53] <inetpro> :-)
[17:53] <smile> I will ;)
[17:53] <smile> :)
[17:54] <charlvn> smile: flemish, walloon or german?
[17:54] <inetpro> wallon?
[17:54] <inetpro> walloon*
[17:54] <smile> charlvn: flemish of course! :p
[17:55]  * smile spreekt Nederlands
[17:55] <smile> :p
[17:55] <charlvn> ah ok nee dat is goed dan :P
[17:55] <smile> :p
[17:55] <smile> charlvn: jij ook? :o
[17:55] <Kerbero> hey
[17:55] <Kerbero> english here
[17:55] <inetpro> first time ever that I heard about walloon
[17:55] <charlvn> inetpro: a walloon is a french-speaking belgian, they live in the southern parts of belgium
[17:55] <smile> Kerbero: jaja :p
[17:55] <Kerbero> :P
[17:55] <inetpro> charlvn: I just checked on wikipedia
[17:56] <inetpro> very interesting
[17:56] <inetpro> never to old to learn
[17:56] <smile> inetpro: so is Vlaams. :p
[17:56] <charlvn> smile: nee ik ben een nederlander ;)
[17:56] <smile> :p
[17:56] <Kerbero> *Flemmish
[17:57] <charlvn> Kerbero: wtfbbqktnxbye (does that qualify as english?)
[17:57] <inetpro> smile: as jy Vlaams praat dan verstaan jy waarskynlik ook Afrikaans
[17:57] <Kerbero> ja hy doen
[17:57] <Kerbero> ek praat baie afrikaans met hom
[17:57] <Kerbero> maar in #ubuntu-afr
[17:57] <Kerbero> waar dit hoort
[17:58] <inetpro> Kerbero: I've noticed that :-)
[17:58] <smile> inetpro: ja, ek verstaan afrikaans :p
[17:59] <charlvn> Kerbero: why is afrikaans not allowed in this #, it's an official language of south africa yes?
[17:59] <Kerbero> long story
[17:59] <Kerbero> not banned
[17:59] <Kerbero> but english is preffered here
[17:59] <charlvn> is xhosa or zulu allowed here?
[17:59] <smile> charlvn: if you can speak it ;)
[18:00] <Kerbero> i doubt it
[18:00] <Kerbero> lol
[18:00] <charlvn> or swetswana or venda etc
[18:00] <Kerbero> all 11?
[18:00] <charlvn> smile: lol i don't haha
[18:00] <Kerbero> north and south sotho?
[18:00] <inetpro> charlvn: nobody banned Afrikaans in here
[18:00] <charlvn> i wonder if it's possible to type bushmen language
[18:00] <Kerbero> ja
[18:00] <Kerbero> a lot o !'s and \'s
[18:01] <smile> :)
[18:01] <charlvn> lol
[18:01] <Kilos> good evening superfly smile and others
[18:01] <charlvn> hi Kilos
[18:01] <Kilos> lo charlvn
[18:01] <superfly> hi oom Kilos
[18:01] <Kerbero> example: http://www.mieliestronk.com/landwapen.html
[18:01] <inetpro> charlvn: but when there's a lot of chatter in Afrikaans it's better to move to the dedicated channel because not everyone can understand it in here
[18:01] <Kerbero> a lot of !'s and /'s
[18:02] <inetpro> all depends on the situation
[18:02] <charlvn> inetpro: it's a surprise people don't complain about the dutch in here... especially since it's not even a south african language :P
[18:02] <inetpro> hi Kilos
[18:02] <Kilos> hiya inetpro
[18:02] <Kerbero> lol
[18:02] <inetpro> wb superfly
[18:02] <superfly> thanks inetpro
[18:03] <smile> good evening Kilos
[18:03] <smile> no parlare espagnol? :p
[18:03] <Kilos> nein
[18:04] <Kerbero> nyen
[18:04] <inetpro> smile: heh!
[18:04] <Kerbero> *nyet
[18:04] <Kilos> aikona
[18:04] <Kerbero> haha
[18:04] <Kilos> you guys all well??
[18:05] <smile> Kilos: ;)
[18:05] <smile> I don't speak Spanish :)
[18:05] <Kerbero> <thumbs up>
[18:05] <Kilos> nice to see some action here and some joking and smiles
[18:05] <smile> well we should keep alive, Kilos
[18:06] <Kilos> smile normally i just see you say bye
[18:06] <Kilos> you had a good day today?
[18:06] <smile> yes :)
[18:06] <smile> Kilos: i know :p
[18:06] <Kilos> yay
[18:06] <smile> but i was busy today
[18:06] <smile> like always
[18:06] <smile> but now less busy then let's say, wednesday
[18:06] <smile> :p
[18:06] <Kilos> ah
[18:06] <smile> it was really hot today in europe :)
[18:06] <smile> a little bit too hot :p
[18:07] <smile> +- 32
[18:07] <smile> we are not used to it :p
[18:07] <Kilos> what do you call hot?
[18:07] <smile> (sorry, 23 :p )
[18:07] <Kilos> thats lekker not hot
[18:07] <Kerbero> dat is koud
[18:07] <Banlam> 32 is warm
[18:07] <Banlam> 40 is hot
[18:07] <Banlam> 23 is comfortable
[18:07] <Kerbero> bo 30 is eers warm
[18:07] <Kerbero> lol @ banlam
[18:07] <Kerbero> hot vs warm
[18:07]  * Banlam 's climate control in his car is set to 22
[18:07] <Banlam> hot is warmer than warm
[18:08] <Kilos> thats too cold
[18:08] <smile> Kerbero: dat is warm. :p
[18:08] <Banlam> 22 is delightful
[18:08] <Banlam> for shrots and a shirt
[18:08] <Kilos> and penguins
[18:08] <smile> Kerbero: koud is -5 ;)
[18:08] <Banlam> penguins \o/
[18:08] <Kerbero> banlam is shorts and a shirt is awesome
[18:08] <Kerbero> *in
[18:08] <Banlam> ;)
[18:09] <Kerbero> ;) back to you
[18:09] <Kilos> inetpro, en hoe gaan dit by jou
[18:09] <Kilos> hi barns
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:11]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[18:11] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[18:11] <Maaz> inetpro: Yessir
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz, with cremora
[18:11] <Maaz> Ah! At last someone with taste
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz, and milk
[18:11] <Maaz> Now you're talking
[18:12] <Kilos> Maaz, rusks please
[18:12] <Maaz> behind the calender on top of the fridge, but dont tell everyone Kilos
[18:12] <Kilos> doop n ouma doop n ouma
[18:12] <smile> Kilos: jy praat ook afrikaans :o
[18:12] <smile> ^^
[18:13] <Kilos> oh my i wondered what dictionary i had here
[18:13] <inetpro> has anyone ever tried using Ubuntu in Afrikaans?
[18:13] <Kerbero> no
[18:13] <Kerbero> has anyone ever tried using windows in afrikaans?
[18:13] <Kilos> there is no afrikaans for sudo
[18:14] <Kerbero> rhetorical question
[18:14] <smile> nee, Kerbero
[18:14] <Kerbero> sgdo
[18:14] <Kerbero> supergebruiker doen
[18:14] <inetpro> yikes
[18:14] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[18:14] <Kerbero> janee
[18:14] <charlvn> most people i know just use it in english, it's a pain to get used to a new language in menus etc even if you speak it
[18:15] <smile> ;)
[18:15] <inetpro> charlvn: I agree
[18:15] <charlvn> usually it's more of a pain than to just use it in english
[18:15] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and inetpro!
[18:15] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[18:15] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[18:15] <smile> Maaz: :D
[18:15] <Maaz> smile: Sorry...
[18:15] <charlvn> and full disclosure, i used to be involved with translate.org.za, i have nothing against software translation or anything
[18:15] <smile> Maaz: I want cookies! :D
[18:15] <Maaz> smile: What?
[18:15] <inetpro> I have a friend who uses the Afrikaans version of Firefox and Thunderbird
[18:15] <smile> cookies! :o
[18:15] <inetpro> on Windows
[18:15] <smile> inetpro: werk dit goed? :p
[18:15] <Kilos> shame poor guy inetpro
[18:16] <charlvn> as soon as you search for a proxy and have to go to "instaanbediener" you get lost
[18:16] <Kerbero> hehe
[18:16] <Kerbero> maak my koekies skoon
[18:16] <Kerbero> verwyder almal van hulle
[18:16] <inetpro> Kilos: he's still as happy as ever
[18:17] <inetpro> just not sure whether he's using the latest version
[18:17] <Kilos> he never knew any better i spose
[18:17] <Kilos> win7 is very heavy
[18:17] <Kilos> the iso is 3.3g
[18:19] <Kilos> inetpro, you have nearly a whole month to organise kid stuff to not interfere with next months meeting hey
[18:19] <inetpro> Kilos: hmm...
[18:19] <Kilos> hehe
[18:19] <inetpro> Kilos: when is the next date?
[18:20] <Kilos> sec
[18:20] <Kilos> 18th looks like
[18:20] <Kilos> 5 days before im 61
[18:20] <Kilos> whew ou donner
[18:22] <inetpro> highvoltage: can you op me again so I can change that topic, please
[18:23] <inetpro> or superfly, drubin, ...
[18:23] <Kilos> inetpro, why dont you stay opped instead of unopping after changing topic?
[18:24] <inetpro> Kilos: nah, better to stay out of the limelight
[18:24] <smile> inetpro: you will die.. ooit :p
[18:24] <Kilos> bangbroek
[18:24] <smile> haha! :p
[18:24] <inetpro> smile: hmm...
[18:25] <Banlam> plausible deniability
[18:25] <smile> inetpro: dat is waar he :)
[18:25] <superfly> inetpro: what do we need the topic changed to?
[18:26] <inetpro> - IRC meeting Mon, 21 May 19:30 SAST
[18:26] <inetpro> +IRC meeting Mon, 18 June 19:30 SAST
[18:26] <Kilos> hi conradvo
[18:27]  * smile knuffelt inetpro
[18:27] <Kilos> long time since we showed over 40 peeps here
[18:27] <inetpro> smile: wat het ek nou verkeerd gedoen?
[18:28] <charlvn> lol
[18:28] <charlvn> does inetpro know what knuffel means
[18:29] <charlvn> smile: it's a "druk" in afrikaans
[18:29] <Kilos> what does it mean and in what language
[18:29] <Banlam> haha
[18:29] <smile> inetpro: niets. :)
[18:29] <smile> ;)
[18:29] <Kilos> oh a hug?
[18:29] <charlvn> yes
[18:29] <smile> ja! :)
[18:29] <charlvn> in dutch it's a knuffel
[18:29] <smile> :D
[18:29] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[18:29] <inetpro> charlvn: yikes!
[18:29] <smile> inetpro: wat het jy gedink? ;)
[18:29] <Kilos> inetpro, s wife will hit him
[18:30] <charlvn> lol
[18:30] <inetpro> ek het gedink hy smile bedoel om my te knyp
[18:30] <Kilos> lmga
[18:30] <charlvn> hahahahaha this is classic
[18:31] <inetpro> s/hy//
[18:31] <smile> inetpro: nee, ek knyp jou nie! :)
[18:31] <charlvn> i always use this one to troll south africans with: http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/catinboxkevinsteeleflickerphoto.jpg
[18:31] <Kilos> smile why you hide your name
[18:31] <smile> how do you mean? :)
[18:32] <charlvn> recipe: take a photo of a cat in a box and ask a dutchman to describe what he sees
[18:32] <charlvn> then give his/her answer to a south african
[18:32] <charlvn> end: epic troll
[18:32] <Kerbero> lol nee
[18:32] <Kilos> in xchat if one right clicks the nicks on the right it shows who you are
[18:32] <Kerbero> 'n kat telery is beter
[18:32] <smile> hmm.. strange :p
[18:33] <smile> Kilos: check out www.hugsmile.eu to know who I am :)
[18:33] <smile> ^^
[18:33] <inetpro> charlvn: eh
[18:33] <Kerbero> cute
[18:33] <Kilos> naw i cant go browsing
[18:33] <inetpro> jy loop nou op dun ys
[18:33] <smile> good night everyone! :D
[18:33] <Kerbero> smile = st niklaas
[18:33] <Banlam> hugesmile
[18:33] <Kerbero> :P
[18:33] <smile> "Welcome on the site of Geoffrey De Belie! You can contact me here.
[18:33] <Banlam> ooh, a .eu domain
[18:33] <smile> I live in Belgium, in a town called Sint-Niklaas. I'm often on msn, wikipedia and irc (see also chatting in #hugsmile). I'm addicted to smileys. I have brown eyes and brown hair. You find more information about me on my public profile. It's also the place to look for pictures of me. I don't have pets anymore.
[18:33] <smile> Geoffrey De Belie "
[18:33] <smile> :p
[18:33] <smile> Banlam: yes, i'm proud eu member :)
[18:34] <smile> good night everyone, see ya :)
[18:34] <Kerbero> i'm not :(
[18:34] <Banlam> can anyone get a .eu?
[18:34] <charlvn> smile: yuck, you're proud of the .eu ?
[18:34] <charlvn> Banlam: nope, you have to live in the EU
[18:34] <Kerbero> hy is 'n belg, hulle regeer die EU
[18:34] <Kilos> night smile sleep tight
[18:34] <charlvn> lol i thought it was the bilderbergers
[18:34] <Kerbero> ...brussel
[18:34] <smile> charlvn: no, to be a member of the European Union :)
[18:35] <charlvn> yeah that's what i meant :)
[18:35] <smile> thank you, Kilos :)
[18:35] <inetpro> smile: lekker slaap
[18:35] <charlvn> anti-EU sentiment has been growing in a lot of countries
[18:35] <Kerbero> smile: do you onle have to give an address in the EU?
[18:35] <smile> I do think so :(
[18:35] <Kerbero> sophi nummer?
[18:35] <smile> Kerbero: but you can give a fake one ;)
[18:35] <smile> no. :p
[18:35] <Kerbero> i have a real one
[18:36] <Kerbero> real address
[18:36] <smile> oh :o
[18:36] <Banlam> or we can give smile's one :)
[18:36] <smile> well i really have to go now ;) good night ;)
[18:36] <Kerbero> lol
[18:36] <smile> yes, indeed :)
[18:36] <smile> ^^
[18:36] <Kerbero> i'm sure i do have a sophi number too
[18:36] <charlvn> Kerbero: sofi numbers are long gone, it's a BSN now and it's only for the netherlands, other countries don't have it
[18:36] <Kerbero> ok
[18:36] <Banlam> sofi numbers?
[18:36] <Banlam> id number?
[18:36] <Kerbero> yes
[18:36] <charlvn> and yes you need a real physical address, i don't think you need anything else
[18:36] <Kerbero> ok
[18:37] <Kerbero> i have a physical address in NL
[18:37] <charlvn> then you can register a .eu
[18:37] <Kilos> same as on aim you need a usa addy
[18:37] <Kerbero> yeah
[18:37] <charlvn> Banlam: a bsn is to the netheralands as an id number to south africa
[18:37] <charlvn> americans have social security numbers
[18:37] <Banlam> right
[18:37] <Kilos> but addies are easy to find but who would want an eu one?
[18:38] <charlvn> Kilos: yes exactly my question :)
[18:38] <Kerbero> spre.eu
[18:38] <Kilos> hehe
[18:38] <Kerbero> me.eu
[18:38] <charlvn> and yes you can most likely give up a fake address
[18:38] <charlvn> i don't think they verify everything
[18:38] <Kerbero> google verified my NL address \o/
[18:38] <Banlam> lol
[18:39] <Kilos> aol/aim didnt check i just gave the first usa addy i found
[18:39] <Banlam> apple thinks I live in Kenya
[18:39] <Kerbero> ... Liberty Isle, New York, USA
[18:39] <Banlam> all they check is the postal cod
[18:39] <Banlam> e
[18:39] <charlvn> yeah
[18:40] <Banlam> and kenya don't use postal codes :)
[18:40] <charlvn> hahahaha big surprise
[18:40] <Kilos> wow do they have post?
[18:40] <charlvn> that is strange though, it used to be an english colony
[18:41] <charlvn> that's a good question Kilos
[18:41]  * Banlam doesn't know
[18:41] <charlvn> the roads in the middle of nairobi are in such terrible shape, you need a bike to get around
[18:41] <Kerbero> how about kongo, ex belgian colony
[18:41] <Kerbero> we should ask smile
[18:41] <Kilos> hehe
[18:42] <charlvn> ok i need to bugger off, bbl all
[18:42] <Kilos> hi psydroid you well?
[18:42] <Kilos> we are getting peeps from all over
[18:43] <Kilos> i see our ruskies have left
[18:43] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[18:43] <Kilos> psydroid, studying hard?
[18:43] <psydroid> hi charlvn Kerbero Banlam
[18:44] <Kerbero> goedenavond
[18:44] <Banlam> hey psydroid
[18:44] <psydroid> Kilos, somewhat, I'm learning Python now
[18:44] <Kilos> from byteofpython psydroid
[18:44] <Banlam> needs moar brackets
[18:44] <Banlam> and semi-colons
[18:45] <Kilos> Banlam, more?
[18:45] <Banlam> yes
[18:45] <psydroid> Kilos, and you?
[18:45] <Banlam> but i wrote maor on purpose
[18:45] <Banlam> it has more heart
[18:45] <Banlam> moar*
[18:45] <psydroid> hehe
[18:45] <Kilos> psydroid, im parking off shivering
[18:45] <Kilos> its winter here
[18:46] <psydroid> oh, I completely forgot about that
[18:46] <Banlam> you forgot it's winter?
[18:46] <Kilos> he is in the netherlands
[18:46] <Kilos> lol
[18:47] <Kilos> its always winter there
[18:47] <Kilos> like the uk
[18:47] <psydroid> hehe
[18:47] <psydroid> it's actually a bit warmer now
[18:47] <Kerbero> altijd 11 steden tocht
[18:47] <Kerbero> :P
[18:47] <psydroid> since last week
[18:50] <Kilos> Banlam, what do you need more brackets for?
[18:50] <Kerbero> python
[18:50] <Kerbero> it has too little rackets
[18:50] <Kerbero> *few
[18:51] <Kerbero> w/e
[18:51] <Kerbero> min
[18:51] <Kerbero> geen
[18:51] <Kilos> set your keyboard to auto repaet and hold key down and you get lots
[18:51] <Kilos> ah
[18:51] <Kerbero> maar dan kla die compiler
[18:51] <Kilos> lol
[18:51] <bakuman> lol
[18:51] <superfly> Kerbero: whaddyamean it needs more brackets?
[18:51] <Kerbero> java/c vs python
[18:51] <Kilos> ha ha ha now you had it
[18:52] <Kerbero> "o i love all these brackets" vs "where has all my brackets gone?"
[18:52] <superfly> you can do all sorts of awesome things like: stuff = [{'moo': item.moo, 'bar': item.bar} for item in items]
[18:52] <Kerbero> jaja
[18:52] <Kerbero> for la in bla { ... }
[18:52] <Kerbero> vs
[18:53] <Kerbero> for la in bla:
...
[18:53] <Kerbero> that is why i like php
[18:54] <Kerbero> you can use both java/c brackets and your python brackets
[18:58] <superfly> urgh
[18:58] <superfly> PHP is a hammer with 2 claws
[18:59] <Kerbero> heh indeed
[18:59] <Kerbero> but easy to get something done
[19:00] <bakuman> aka BIG hammer?
[19:01] <Kilos> night guys, sleep tight
[19:02] <bakuman> nite nite
[19:02] <Kerbero> nag oom ki...
[19:12] <magespawn> howdy all
[19:16] <psydroid> hi magespawn
[19:16] <inetpro> magespawn: wb
[19:16] <magespawn> hey psydroid
[19:17] <psydroid> hi inetpro
[19:44] <superfly> hi magespawn
[19:45] <charlvn> hi all
[19:46] <magespawn> hey superfly
[20:40] <charlvn> nn all
[20:44] <Mezenir> oooh
[20:44] <Mezenir> late already
[20:45] <Mezenir> gnite
[21:08] <nuvolari> o/
[21:08] <Squirm> 0/
[21:08] <Squirm> I win
[21:15] <magespawn> night all
[22:49] <drubin> inetpro: Sorry I was out... we should get highvoltage to give you +O or something


[09:48] <diego11> hi all
[10:27] <tbnbuddha> hi. i think i crashed my package management. whenever i try to install something it end up with "ldconfig not found". Solutions i found via the web are all not working so far. anyone got a suggestion?
[10:27] <tbnbuddha> ls
[10:34] <leszek> tbnbuddha: please can you give a concrete detailed error message
[10:34] <leszek> or is it just ldconfig not found ?
[10:36] <tbnbuddha> i throws me just this error message
[10:37] <tbnbuddha> it
[10:39] <leszek> tbnbuddha: that sounds like a broken system. Is the package libc-bin installed ?
[10:41] <tbnbuddha> it is but when i try to reinstall it it says ldconfig is missing :)
[10:42] <tbnbuddha> the was also a message that a package is broken. did not not which one it was but i think it was libc6 or libc-bin, one of those
[10:44] <leszek> tbnbuddha: it seems libc-bin is broken as it contains ldconfig. Which version of Lubuntu ?
[10:45] <tbnbuddha> some kind of 14.xx
[10:45] <tbnbuddha> how can i check this?
[10:45] <tbnbuddha> i am a beginner on linux
[10:54] <leszek> tbnbuddha: lsb_release -r as terminal command should show you the version
[10:55] <tbnbuddha> 14.04
[11:01] <leszek> tbnbuddha: then download the correct package for your architecture 32bit (i386) 64bit (amd64) from here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty-updates/libc-bin
[11:01] <leszek> and install it by doube clicking on the deb file downloaded. That will hopefully bring back ldconfig which allows you to repair the rest of the system
[11:02] <tbnbuddha> ok i  will try that
[11:07] <tbnbuddha> the package manager told me thatz there is no "lintian" available and i should install it with apt-get. If i try that it says "ldconfig" not found
[11:08] <tbnbuddha> when i try to install the downloaded libc-bin package
[11:08] <tbnbuddha> isn't it an option to just open the package with a package manager and copy the ldconfig out of it?
[11:12] <leszek> tbnbuddha: can you force install it with dpkg --force-all -i /path/to/the/debfile.deb
[11:12] <tbnbuddha> i try that
[11:15] <tbnbuddha> he does it but ldconfig is still missing after that
[11:16] <tbnbuddha> when i try to install "make" after that for example with apt-get
[11:16] <tbnbuddha> or when i try to do "apt-get -f install"
[11:27] <leszek> tbnbuddha: hmm... /sbin/ldconfig does not exist ?
[11:27] <tbnbuddha> yep. it is  there
[11:27] <tbnbuddha> it is not there
[11:28] <tbnbuddha> sorry
[11:28] <tbnbuddha> i installed without i-net connection because wifi wasn't  detected automaticly
[11:29] <tbnbuddha> after i tried to install needed packages after it, it ended like this
[11:31] <tbnbuddha> in the evening i have a second pc when i am at home. then i can create a new usb stick to install it freshly. seems to complicated to fix this without
[11:32] <leszek> yeah needs some digging around what actually is broken overall
[11:34] <tbnbuddha> but lots of thanks you guys so far. i appreciate it


[01:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Woot, survived!
[01:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Still need to get my SSH key and whatnot in place, but I am reinstalled and restoring my data.
[01:20] <arraybolt3> And I am back in action with SSH!
[01:20] <arraybolt3> This turned out to be (thankfully!) easy.
[02:39] <tsimonq2> O
[02:39] <tsimonq2> I'll point out bug 1880418 as a good example of some low-hanging fruit.
[02:39] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 1880418 in lxqt-config (Ubuntu) "Secondary monitor config not working" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880418
[02:39] <tsimonq2> Just general UX cleanup, you can probably reproduce a dual-monitor setup with a VM
[02:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks doable easily enough.
[02:41] <arraybolt3[m]> I can do dual-monitors on baremetal hardware. (Multimonitors in a VM is actually a pain unless you're using VirtualBox and VirtualBox is a pain all on its own :P)
[02:41] <arraybolt3[m]> But I've got laptops with an HDMI port so no big deal there.
[02:42] <tsimonq2> Fair enough there. :)
[02:44]  * arraybolt3[m] gets my todo list restored onto the laptop
[21:43] <arraybolt3> Gonna have to wait for the Lubuntu ISO to be installable again - I can't install Guest Additions unless I can do a real install and I can't test multimonitors in a VM without Guest Additions. I was going to use bare metal but my secondary monitor is in use elsewhere.
[21:49] <arraybolt3> Actually, it's been almost two days since that bug was reported (with the lsb_release module missing). I may end up trying to figure out what's tangled in there at some point.
[22:17] <arraybolt3> Hmm. So I can actually run the erroring command (from lsb_release import get_distro_information) in a python3 terminal on Jammy and it works.If it fals on Lunar then I think we have our problem.
[22:17] <arraybolt3> In which case I'll probably file a bug against lsb_release.
 lsb_release recently had some changes if I remember the blur that went by either in IRC or email.
[22:29] <arraybolt3> Yeah, noticed that. Not sure on the details, I asked about it in #ubuntu-devel.
[22:29] <arraybolt3> I could probably dig it out of the backlog if it was necessary.
[22:29]  * arraybolt3 should at some point make a channel log and mailing list archive searcher
 Sometimes it goes by quick but Quassel and Thunderbird both have good search features.
[22:33] <arraybolt3> I can grep through WeeChat's logs come to think of it. And yeah, thunderbird's search works good but when you just finished deleting a whole ton of emails you thought you were done with and you know you can get back out of the archives...
[22:34] <arraybolt3> (I think the lsb_release stuff was on IRC though, not email.)
 Makes sense. That does narrow it down.
[22:38] <kc2bez> Um, the automirror module is part of cala-settings arraybolt3
[22:39] <kc2bez> No delta needed it is a Ubuntu only package.
[22:39] <arraybolt3> It isn't part of Calamares code?
[22:39] <kc2bez> No
[22:39] <kc2bez> It is a module we added.
[22:40] <arraybolt3> kc2bez: *Deep sigh of relief.* OK, thanks for checking that. I didn't remember that.
[22:41] <kc2bez> https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/calamares-settings-ubuntu/src/branch/ubuntu/lunar/common/modules/automirror/main.py
[22:41] <arraybolt3> I thought it was an internal routine in Calamares since Calamares has a ton of Python in it.
[22:42] <arraybolt3> :P
[22:42] <arraybolt3> OK, well that makes things a ton easier.
[22:42] <kc2bez> It does indeed.
[22:44] <kc2bez> I think jbicha's suggestion might work. Admittedly I haven't looked at that Python module but it might be the best option
[22:49] <kc2bez> Glancing ever so slightly it seems really close to what we currently have.


[23:13] <alexandre> but k3b retreive trakcs normally
[23:13] <secleinteer> adz21c: i guess just removing the packages and updating fixed the problem
[23:13] <secleinteer> adz21c: no kde4 for me until it's actually functional :P
[23:14] <Bauldrick> KsCD - Rythmbox - they all retrieve ok
[23:14] <adz21c> secleinteer: yea, i knew it was gonna be a choppy release but, more so than i expected
[23:14] <secleinteer> adz21c: yeah, i'm really disappointed, but as they said, it's not meant to be a final release
[23:14] <secleinteer> adz21c: thanks for your help
[23:14] <almakeloide> :(
[23:14] <adz21c> secleinteer: np
[23:15] <wesley> kde4 is working fine
[23:15] <hola> wesley: i ddn't find the disk maagement in kd4
[23:15] <ProblematiK> is there any way to make KDE look like Mac OS X?
[23:15] <wesley> just do it in you kde3 then wheres the problem
[23:16] <hola> wesley: i ddn't find the disk maagement in kd4
[23:16] <wesley> in kubuntu did kubuntu add it in kde3
[23:16] <AzAel> hahaha yakuake is stuffed in kde4
[23:16] <lemke> ProblematiK: haven'r find anything on google?
[23:17] <ProblematiK> lemke:  just AWN but its for gnome :T
[23:17] <ProblematiK> lemke:  ppl say its buggy on kde
[23:17] <inaety> how can i get flash in kde4-konqueror
[23:17] <kernco> The instructions at http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php don't seem to work.  I'm getting unmet dependency errors.
[23:18] <tcm_> kde4 need one another year until it will be a killer DE
[23:18] <khelll> how shall i write in ntfs drive?
[23:18] <lunar-raven> kde4 is already pretty cool if you ask me
[23:18] <LeAstrale> ntfs3g is the answer
[23:18] <AzAel> tcm_: less i rekon
[23:18] <LeAstrale> lunar-raven: yes it is
[23:18] <AzAel> how did ya go hunkennalle?
[23:18] <tcm_> it's not done if you ask me
[23:18] <lemke> ProblematiK: try "Baghira"
[23:19] <hunkennalle> i pressed f10 and got the boot menu up
[23:20] <hunkennalle> i changed the order so the cd/dvd drive booted first.... still nothing
[23:20] <lunar-raven> does anyone know what the easiest way to install the svn version of amarok? i got it compiled but its telling me there are no sound engines =[
[23:21] <AzAel> hunkennalle: did you verify the cd
[23:21] <nosrednaekim> lunar-raven: it doesn't even start?
[23:21] <hunkennalle> what is that?
[23:21] <lunar-raven> i get the splash..but then i get a message saying there is no sound engine found
[23:21] <lunar-raven> and then it closes
[23:21] <kernco> How do I install KDE4?
[23:22] <AzAel> well when burning OS cd's it sometimes help if you burn them at a slow speed as it improves compatability and also you can run a verify to make sure it has burnt properly
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> kernco: read the topic
[23:22] <specialbuddy> how do I get the taskbar working with kde4
[23:22] <hunkennalle> I just downloaded the iso and drag'n'dropped it to the cd
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> specialbuddy: whats wrong with it?
[23:22] <specialbuddy> it's not there
[23:22] <specialbuddy> it's missing
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> hunkennalle: I don't think that works..
[23:23] <specialbuddy> unless that's the way kde4 is
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> specialbuddy: no..lol, did you have any previous version of kde4 installed?
[23:23] <lunar-raven> that's strange..special
[23:23] <hunkennalle> how should i do it?
[23:23] <specialbuddy> no
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> hunkennalle: which program are you using?
[23:24] <lunar-raven> specialbuddy: did you try deleting your .kde4 folder? That would probably fix it.
[23:24] <hunkennalle> explorer? i dont know.. just dragd it to the folder that came up when i put the cd in
[23:24] <AzAel> hunkennalle: which burning program do you have?
[23:24] <specialbuddy> um
[23:24] <lunar-raven> it would be in your home directory (if you don't know).
[23:24] <Dr_willis_> look on the burnt cd.. If it has a single .iso file.. You burnt it wrong.
[23:24] <AzAel> hunkennalle: do you have nero or anything like that?
[23:25] <Dr_willis_> There are dozens of free .iso burning tools for windows.
[23:25] <Dr_willis_> I like 'burn at once'
[23:25] <cazevedo> Hi everyone... I have a funny problem with KDE. The desktop displays the contents of / as icons instead of /$HOME/Desktop. This with KDE 3.5.8 on a mainly Gutsy install.
[23:25] <specialbuddy> where is my kde4 folder
[23:25] <hunkennalle> not annything downloaded.. maybe something came with the computer
[23:25] <cazevedo> Anyone ever had this problem ?
[23:26] <lunar-raven> it's a hidden folder..so you could simply type (in whatever file browser you use) /home/[yourusername]/.kde4
[23:26] <hunkennalle> i found a software called "Sonic MyDVD"
[23:26] <lunar-raven> then delete the contents in it and restart kde4
[23:26] <sylvain_> !bsd
[23:26] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bsd - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:26] <sylvain_> !freebsd
[23:26] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about freebsd - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:26] <specialbuddy> well shouldn't I reinstall kde4base
[23:27] <sylvain_> Hi all, I am searching for an IRC canal about BSD (or FreeBSD), but I can't find it. Does anybody knows where I can ?
[23:27] <lunar-raven> you could.. I had the taskbar problem though, and deleted the kde4 folder and it fixed it. Deleting that folder gets rid of any kde4 settings that are set
[23:28] <lunar-raven> probably not needed to reinstall
[23:29] <jxn> kämpft noch jemand ausser mir momentan mit kwallet?
[23:29] <AzAel> hunkennalle: that might work but im not familiar with the program, you can download free programs for windows like "burn it once" or i like "cdburnerxp"
[23:29] <jxn> sorry, wrong channel.
[23:30] <AzAel> jxn: hehehe
[23:30] <hunkennalle> ok... on this program its got "Direct to disk" think thatll work?
[23:30] <AzAel> hunkennalle: no
[23:31] <inaety> has anyone gotten flash correctly working on kde4-konqueror?  i have it installed locally through the plugin adder and from nsplugins.  any ideas
[23:31] <hunkennalle> ok... so i just google burn it once and do that?
[23:31] <AzAel> hunkennalle: your looking for some like "burn disk image"
[23:31] <hunkennalle> ok
[23:32] <kyled185> so do the new kde4 packages automatically add a session in gdm/kdm?
[23:32] <AzAel> hunkennalle: try cdburnxp in google
[23:33] <AzAel> hunkennalle: i mean cdburnerxp
[23:33] <hunkennalle> ok
[23:33] <biovore> !kde4
[23:33] <ubotu> KDE 4 is the latest major release of the K Desktop Environment. - KDE 4.0 packages can be found at http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php - More information can be found at http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ and support in #kubuntu
[23:33] <nosredna_ekim> kyled185: yes
[23:33] <kyled185> okidokie thanks
[23:33] <greg-g> no .torrent for the kde4 live cd?
[23:33] <specialbuddy> lunar-raven, how do I delete that directory if it's not empty
[23:34] <hunkennalle> and then i burn the iso onto a disk through that?
[23:34] <adz21c> has anyone got kdm-kde4 to work properly? i only seem to get a console, i end up having to used kdm from kde3
[23:34] <Lars_G> stdin: Are you there?
[23:34] <lunar-raven> are you in the kde4 directory now specialbuddy?
[23:34] <lunar-raven> just highlight the folders in it, and press delete
[23:35] <nosredna_ekim> adz21c: yeah just use the kde3 one
[23:35] <e-uoaphys> hi guys when will gutsy get kde 4.0 released?
[23:35] <AzAel> hunkennalle: back in a moment im off to have a smoke, download and install cdburnxp and look through the menus for a burn image to disk sort of option sel;ect your kubuntu iso and hit burn
[23:35] <e-uoaphys> i am running RC2 but want to get the latest version :/
[23:35] <hunkennalle> thx
[23:35] <Lars_G> e-uoaphys: they already did?
[23:36] <Lars_G> e-uoaphys: check www.kubuntu.com
[23:36] <specialbuddy> lunar-raven, I did delete them but the come back
[23:36] <adz21c> nosredna_ekim: do you know what those kde4 packages in backport are? are they updates to the ppa?
[23:36] <nosredna_ekim> e-uoaphys: its in the PPA repositories right now
[23:36] <e-uoaphys> yea 4.0 is out but i can't find packages for it yet
[23:36] <specialbuddy> they are temp files
[23:36] <e-uoaphys> what does ppa mean?
[23:36] <Lars_G> e-uoaphys: read www.kubuntu.com
[23:36] <lunar-raven> specialbuddy: yeah thats ok. restart kde 4 now
[23:36] <lunar-raven> they will come back
[23:36] <lunar-raven> :)
[23:36] <e-uoaphys> ok thanks lars
[23:36] <nosredna_ekim> adz21c: don't use the backports right now
[23:36] <Odd-rationale> does kde 4.0 require any more resource than the previous?
[23:36] <greg-g> re-asking question: there is no torrent of the kubuntu kde4 livecd?
[23:36] <lunar-raven> odd: no..less from what I know
[23:36] <lunar-raven> odd: it seems pretty lightweight to me
[23:36] <nosredna_ekim> Odd-rationale: less in my case
[23:37] <Odd-rationale> Great! good to know.
[23:37] <adz21c> nosredna_ekim: ok, but what are they do you know? are they kubuntu transitioning kde4 from ppa to backports (but not finished) or what?
[23:37] <Lars_G> Yeah the kde guys tightened the code a little so it should be lighter. afaik
[23:37] <nosredna_ekim> adz21c: precisely... its taking a bit longer to put them in backpots
[23:37] <Lars_G> stdin: Anyhow, thank you sir, for getting 4.0 final packaged so quick. It's all I wanted to say
[23:37]  * Lars_G bows to stdin
[23:37] <adz21c> nosredna_ekim: fair play
[23:37] <lunar-raven> <3 stdin
[23:37] <e-uoaphys> hey guys, I have gutsy 7.10 Kubuntu installed on clean install, and network manager didn't automatically DHCP for me, found a lot of people complaining on it about on the forums. then went to Ubuntu 7.10 gutsy and its network tray icon works fine and DHCP was enabled fine, and never had a problem. Is there a known issue with the Kubuntu version of gutsy and the network manager icon? and if so, is there a fix for it?
[23:38] <khelll> how to run wmv files
[23:38] <nosredna_ekim> !w32codecs
[23:38] <ubotu> The Win32 codecs are available from the Medibuntu repositories (see « /msg ubotu medibuntu »), and for releases prior to Gutsy, also at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[23:38]  * genii sips a coffee
[23:39] <olex> hi, does anbody successfully installed kdepim-kde4?
[23:39] <nosredna_ekim> olex: I was using it previously... but not recently
[23:39] <e-uoaphys> in KDE4, is there a way to enable multiple desktops? The pannel doesn't have 4 virtual desktops default down there like KDE3 did... Thanks
[23:40] <olex> I'm unable to even install it :(
[23:40] <olex> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[23:40] <olex>   kdebase-runtime: Conflicts: kdebase-runtime-bin but 4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5~gutsy1~ppa3 is to be installed.
[23:40] <olex>   kdebase-runtime-bin: Depends: kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 (= 4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5~gutsy1~ppa3) but 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 is installed.
[23:40] <olex>                        Depends: kdebase-runtime-data (= 4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5~gutsy1~ppa3) but 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 is installed.
[23:40] <adz21c> e-uoaphys: does it not? its there for me
[23:40] <nosredna_ekim> e-uoaphys: yes, there is... ad the pager applet to the panel
[23:40] <nosredna_ekim> olex: uninstall all previous kde4 packages
[23:40] <e-uoaphys> nosrednaekim: is there a way to make it cube like Compiz?
[23:40] <olex> I just installed kde4-core today
[23:40] <e-uoaphys> or should I just install compiz on top of KWin?
[23:41] <olex> no rc used before
[23:41] <nosredna_ekim> e-uoaphys: yeah, you can replace kwin with compiz
[23:41] <e-uoaphys> olex: do an update
[23:41] <nosredna_ekim> olex: yeah, apt-get update and disable the backports repository
[23:41] <e-uoaphys> nosrednaekim: i read that KWin4 was supposed to support cube using plasma, is this true?
[23:41] <hola> nosredna_ekim: sorry, how is it possible to replace kwin with compiz? Where is the configuration starting file?
[23:41] <mboso> is kde4-core in the ofical repo, or do I have to add the ppa.launchpad one?
[23:42] <olex> nosredna_ekim: thx trying now
[23:42] <eljefe> why would you want to get rid of KWin?  cube isn't worth it, KWin rocks
[23:42] <wesley> cube sucks indeed
[23:42] <nosredna_ekim> e-uoaphys: not yet, but there is the equivalent of the wall plugin
[23:42] <e-uoaphys> well I just want a cube so I can have virtualbox in one facet of the cube and linux on the other
[23:42] <tekteen> nosredna_ekim: edit ~/.profile
[23:42] <nosredna_ekim> mboso: no you need the ppa one
[23:42] <nosredna_ekim> tekteen: eh?
[23:42] <e-uoaphys> eljefe: i used it in ubuntu to get 2 people at work to switch over to ubuntu from windows
[23:43] <hola> nosredna_ekim: sorry, how is it possible to replace kwin with compiz? Where is the configuration starting file?
[23:43] <wesley> the cube is nice but useles
[23:43] <e-uoaphys> once they sawt he cube with virtualbox+XP they were sold on it
[23:43] <tekteen> nosredna_ekim: add    export KDEWM='compiz'    to ~/.profile
[23:43] <nosredna_ekim> hola: just run "compiz --replace"from a run dialog
[23:43] <nosredna_ekim> tekteen: yeah..I know about that ;)
[23:43] <nosredna_ekim> tekteen: I like kwin4
[23:43] <sooki> okay, so i have xubuntu and i want to try out kde4, i can run kde apps but don't actually have kde installed, can i add the repo for kde4 and then do apt-get install kubuntu-desktop and be set? or do i need to do that first and remove the libs that aren't compatable and then upgrade the core like http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php says?
[23:43] <hola> nosredna_ekim: yes ok, but is starts however when dke start
[23:44] <tekteen> ok
[23:44] <e-uoaphys> what is xubuntu? xfce windowmanager with GNOME apps in the start menu?
[23:44] <tekteen> so why did you ask how to replace kwin?
[23:44] <nosredna_ekim> hola: ah yeas, then do what tekteen just said
[23:44] <tekteen> ok
[23:44] <sooki> ubuntu with xfce instead of gnome :P
[23:44] <nosredna_ekim> tekteen: I don't think I did
[23:44] <Dragnslcr> sooki- kubuntu-desktop would install KDE3. You'd have to install KDE4 separately afterwards
[23:44] <itsjustme> Hi, I have a sprint HTC touch smart phone and I'd like to use Kandy or a similar program with it.. Can someone help me configure kandy It doesn't see the phone?
[23:44] <tekteen> you were helping someone
[23:44] <specialbuddy> so how do I get the cool effects with kde4
[23:44] <BrightEyes`> hi.how can i export amarok for windows?
[23:44] <AzAel> dont forget to create a script that switches back to kwin if needed....like if you want to run 3d games etc
[23:45] <e-uoaphys> sooki: is xfce pretty sweet or something?
[23:45] <hola> nosredna_ekim: i missed the line
[23:45] <hola> nosredna_ekim: may yu repeat please
[23:45] <e-uoaphys> sooki: what are the default apps for xfce, kde apps or gnome apps?
[23:45] <AzAel> BrightEyes`: amarok is not availiable for windows yet
[23:45] <lunar-raven> specialbuddy: right click your window decoration and go to "configure window behavior". Then go to special effects
[23:45] <kyled185> BrightEyes`: windows support isn't available until version 2 comes out
[23:45] <lunar-raven> err.."Desktop Effects"
[23:45] <nosredna_ekim> hola: : add    export KDEWM='compiz'    to ~/.profile
[23:45] <sooki> i think gnome, e-uoaphys, it's very resource friendly
[23:46] <sooki> i'm not sure, i don't think it comes with much
[23:46] <nosredna_ekim> well, its a pain to build at least.
[23:46] <wesley> windows support why would you need that ?
[23:46] <e-uoaphys> you like GNOME APPS?
[23:46] <lunar-raven> can anyone tell me what directory kde4 is installed into?
[23:46] <sooki> i already had gnome and some kde apps installed so i'm not sure
[23:46] <e-uoaphys> i agree that synaptic is working less buggy than KDE's version of adept
[23:46] <nosredna_ekim> lunar-raven: /usr/lib/kde4
[23:46] <Pensador> hello
[23:46] <e-uoaphys> but what about evolution vs kde email, totally non-comparrison
[23:46] <kyled185> lunar-raven: /usr/lib/kde4
[23:46] <lunar-raven> thanks
[23:46] <AzAel> wesley: because amarok is the best jukebox type player on the planet why should we share it with the less privaledged
[23:47] <e-uoaphys> i suppose if you need an exchange calendar evolution is better
[23:47] <AzAel> shouldnt
[23:47] <hunkennalle> AzAel: I burned the iso with cdburnerxp with the lowest speed... now just restar??
[23:47] <e-uoaphys> why doesn't evolution just make a exchange wrapper so all open source projects can use its exchange connector, rather than making it exclusive to Evolution?
[23:47] <olex> nosredna_ekim: hmm still no go, disabled backports purged kde4-core and reinstalled again, while trying to install kdepim-kde4 got the same errors
[23:47] <tyone> hi guys
[23:47] <AzAel> hunkennalle: did you find the burn image option?
[23:47] <Pensador> Today I installed the packages kde4-runbase and kdebase-kde4 from the official Ubuntu repos, but I still don't have a KDE4 entry in the login manager
[23:47] <hunkennalle> yes
[23:47] <Pensador> What should I do?
[23:47] <e-uoaphys> Pensacola: that happened to me
[23:47] <hunkennalle> already burned it
[23:47] <tyone> any1 here mind helping a n00b wit ha littleproblem ?
[23:48] <e-uoaphys> stdin told me he swears it was supposed to be copied over to the right file
[23:48] <e-uoaphys> but on my system it didn't do it either
[23:48] <nosredna_ekim> olex: oh! well, kde4-pim isn't built yet for 4.0 those are old packages, don'tuse them
[23:48] <e-uoaphys> i had to manually edit the desktops file
[23:48] <AzAel> hunkennalle: are you putting kubuntu on the pc your on now or another one?
[23:48] <olex> nosredna_ekim: oops, thx for the info ;)
[23:48] <nosredna_ekim> Pensador: read the topic, the packages from the officail repositories are very old
[23:48] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: what is the problem?
[23:49] <tyone> installed kubuntu onto my ubuntu. installed wrong VGA driver. now machine boots up into command promt and not login screen anymore
[23:49] <tyone> needto re-install driver everytime i boot
[23:49] <nosredna_ekim> olex: the kde3 pim works fine on KDE3
[23:49] <hola> nosredna_ekim: this allows to start compiz at startup?
[23:49] <e-uoaphys> tyone: sorry man
[23:49] <nosredna_ekim> hola: yup
[23:49] <hunkennalle> same one, different drive... got windows on c: and a cleared d: drive where i was planing on instaling kubutu
[23:49] <e-uoaphys> hola: only if you select KDE from the login screen
[23:49] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: you have an nvidia?
[23:49] <e-uoaphys> if you go to GNOME on the login screen thenyou'sll get gnome
[23:49] <tyone> indeed
[23:49] <olex> nosredna_ekim: then why do I need ked4 :)
[23:49] <tyone> old nvidia
[23:49] <tyone> 420
[23:50] <nosredna_ekim> olex: cause its way cool :)
[23:50] <hola> nosredna_ekim: ok and to have no compiz starts
[23:50] <e-uoaphys> olex: it powns GNOME that is why
[23:50] <olex> nosredna_ekim: just thought it might be something new in kdepim-kde4
[23:50] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: and you need 3d acceleration?
[23:50] <tyone> i need the driver
[23:50] <nosredna_ekim> hola: what?
[23:50] <tyone> i install it
[23:50] <tyone> but it dont seem to save it
[23:50] <nosredna_ekim> olex: not really...
[23:50] <tyone> every time i boot i need to re-install it
[23:50] <e-uoaphys> tyone did you use the restricted drivers control pannel?
[23:50] <specialbuddy> how do I get the effects because I'm not seeing anything
[23:50] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: its probably not doing the correct thing with the kernel driver. how did you install it?
[23:51] <tyone> i have to close x
[23:51] <tyone> so i installed it from what looks like dos for lack of a better word
[23:51] <hunkennalle> AzAel?
[23:51] <nosredna_ekim> specialbuddy: they MAY not work for you. what card do you have?
[23:51] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: ah.. thats the wrong way :)
[23:51] <tyone> how then ?
[23:51] <tyone> i can im you dude ?
[23:51] <specialbuddy> nvidia
[23:51] <hola> nosredna_ekim: when i start kde compiz starts automatically even if no string is place in Autostart directory. I dont understand in which file is wrote that it has to be lunch at start-up
[23:51] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: install them with the restricted-manager.
[23:52] <AzAel> hunkennalle: sorry i was playing with kde 4
[23:52] <nosredna_ekim> hola: ah... well its cause it was started last time you logged in
[23:52] <e-uoaphys> tyone go to control pannel and find the retricted driver manager icon
[23:52] <hunkennalle> read at 00.49
[23:52] <tyone> it says its in use
[23:52] <specialbuddy> do I have to install nvidia drivers again
[23:52] <nosredna_ekim> e-uoaphys: tyone: is under "advanced"
[23:52] <tyone> i know where it is
[23:52] <nosredna_ekim> specialbuddy: does compiz work for you?
[23:52] <tyone> its has a green tick and says in use
[23:52] <AzAel> hunkennalle: ok your going to have some fun with partitioning
[23:52] <LeeJunFan> okay, I tried kde4 (had it working before) but now the session wont' start. It gives me a failsafe type login using kdm4
[23:53] <hunkennalle> how?
[23:53] <tyone> ok ima reboot
[23:53] <specialbuddy> compiz did work a long time ago
[23:53] <tyone> brb
[23:53] <e-uoaphys> specialbuddy: you should only have to do it once unless a new version of the video driver comes out
[23:53] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: hmm ok.
[23:53] <Pensador> In order to install KDE4 in Ubuntu Gutsy, as we speak, do we still need the PPA repos?
[23:53] <tyone> also
[23:53] <tyone> there isa console window open
[23:53] <nosredna_ekim> LeeJunFan: use he kde3 kdm
[23:53] <tyone> if i close it
[23:53] <AzAel> hunkennalle: just be very careful you dont accidentally overwrite your c drive
[23:53] <specialbuddy> well I don't have compiz on this now
[23:53] <tyone> my machine goes back into "dos" mode
[23:53] <nosredna_ekim> Pensador: yes
[23:53] <specialbuddy> what about kwin
[23:53] <Pensador> nosredna_ekim: thanks
[23:53] <tyone> what is dos mode called in linux ?
[23:53] <hunkennalle> how do i partion and what do i partion?
[23:53] <biovore> free dos.. :-P
[23:53] <tyone> no man
[23:54] <tyone> what do u call it ?
[23:54] <AzAel> hunkennalle: read carefully everything in the installer
[23:54] <tyone> dekstop is gui
[23:54] <tyone> console is console
[23:54] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: command line
[23:54] <biovore> you mean cli ?
[23:54] <biovore> bash shell
[23:54] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: or "bash"
[23:54] <tyone> command line
[23:54] <hunkennalle> so i just follow the instalation?
[23:54] <AzAel> i suggest you download virtual box first and give it a few trial runs
[23:54] <tyone> bash is black screen and white text?
[23:54] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: honestly, In MY opinion, it is best to install a brand new (or old used) second hard drive into your system to put linux on
[23:54] <e-uoaphys> that way you don't distrube your windows partition
[23:54] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: yep
[23:54] <biovore> yup.. you type stuff in it.. has a $ or # on the end of the prompt
[23:54] <tyone> cool
[23:54] <tyone> then my PC only boot into bash
[23:54] <e-uoaphys> unless you just don't care about losing your windows partition. then who cares
[23:54] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: bash is the program that you see
[23:54] <tyone> no longer login screen
[23:54] <biovore> console is just a graphical verision of it..
[23:55] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: which isn't cool ;)
[23:55] <tyone> nope
[23:55] <hunkennalle> well ive got an empty harddrive at 90 GB
[23:55] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: why do you need those drivers?
[23:55] <biovore> think of linux more like windows 3.11..  the graphics is just a application the runs on the OS..
[23:55] <specialbuddy> do I need to do something with kwin?
[23:55] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: is it desktop or laptop
[23:55] <hunkennalle> laptop
[23:55] <nosredna_ekim> specialbuddy: no.
[23:55] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: oh ic... well do you want to keep your windows partition intact?
[23:56] <e-uoaphys> or do you want to just wipe the system clean through and start fresh?
[23:56] <nosredna_ekim> specialbuddy: just righ click on the title bar ->configure windo behavior->desktop effects and enable them
[23:56] <AzAel> hunkennalle: if you want to test out kubuntu use a virtual machine like virtualbox it gives you the oportunity to learn about kubuntu without disturbing your current setup
[23:56] <specialbuddy> I did enable them
[23:56] <hunkennalle> what do you mean? if i want to keep windows? yes
[23:56] <andre> how do I open an application as root? (dolphin)
[23:56] <nosredna_ekim> specialbuddy: and.... hit apply?
[23:56] <nosredna_ekim> andre: kdesudo dolphin
[23:56] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: what I did was I wiped my system clean off, got rid of windows, instaled kubuntu, got it up and running, then installed virtualbox and then windows on top of that
[23:56] <tyone> so... machine boots to bach - install video driver - xinit - gnome-session -  ------------ i do that every boot. now when i get to my desktop, i have a console window, if i close it, i go back to bash !!!!!!! WTF~!
[23:56] <hunkennalle> how do i use virtualbox? download and then...
[23:56] <andre> nosredna_ekim: ty
[23:56] <specialbuddy> desktop effects right
[23:57] <e-uoaphys> then i had a fresh installo f windows inside virtualbox, and linux as my primary OS
[23:57] <AzAel> hunkennalle: virtualbox has a few guides on how to use it
[23:57] <hunkennalle> I cant do that do... got to instal it on this drive
[23:57] <hola> nosredna_ekim: when i start kde compiz starts automatically even if no string is place in Autostart directory. I dont understand in which file is wrote that it has to be lunch at start-up
[23:57] <hunkennalle> ok
[23:57] <e-uoaphys> you must be willing to screw up if you accidentally lose all your files, if you want to install linux on the hard drive  and repartition all your stuff
[23:57] <nosredna_ekim> tyone: ah! after installing the graphics driver run the command "/etc/init.d/gdm restart" instead of that other stuff
[23:57] <nosredna_ekim> hola: yeah, I don't know where that is either
[23:57] <cleaton> hi, i installed kde4.0, but it seems like i have messed up some setting. when i restarted the computer and logged in on kde4 i could see the splash and then the mouse, but everything else was black. i've tried completely remove everything in synaptic and reinstall, but still the same thing. is there some config files left that i could remove?
[23:58] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: first things first: Backup ALL of your important files if you have any, cos if you repartition, you could losei t all (you should backup your important stuff anyway)
[23:58] <lunar-raven> cleaton: i'd remove your .kde4 directory which is in your home folder (if you haven't)
[23:58] <hunkennalle> why cant i just instap it on my d drive?
[23:58] <hunkennalle> instal*
[23:58] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: how does your laptop have a c and d? is it all one physical drive?
[23:58] <AzAel> e-uoaphys: thats why im suggesting to hunkenelle that he try to install kubuntu under virtualbox in windows to see how it goes and to learn about the process
[23:59] <nosredna_ekim> AzAel: performace suffers with that though,especially on older hardware
[23:59] <hunkennalle> i dont know if its one or two drives.. how do you check that?
[23:59] <cleaton> lunar-raven, thanks, =) i'll try that
[23:59] <e-uoaphys> hunkennalle: must be 1 drive with 2 partitions, most laptops do not have dual hard drives
[23:59] <hunkennalle> ok¨
[23:59] <hunkennalle> so whats the problem with that


[05:53] <lifeless> mwhudson: fullermd: that delta module is -firmly- deprecated
[08:59] <poolie> jelmer, hello?
[09:39] <gnuoy> vila, could you give me a ping if you've got time to talk about RT#50151: setup pqm to resolve news conflicts for bzr
[09:39] <gnuoy> ?
[09:47] <vila> gnuoy: ping
[09:47] <vila> gnuoy: are you in budapest ?
[09:48] <gnuoy> vila, no, I'm afraid not
[09:48] <vila> k, no worries
[09:48] <vila> :)
[09:48] <gnuoy> I've got 2 relevant files, /srv/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org/pqm-config/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org.conf and /home/pqm/.bazaar/locations.conf
[09:48] <gnuoy> The /home/pqm/.bazaar/locations.conf has very little in it
[09:48] <gnuoy> https://pastebin.canonical.com/57866/
[09:49] <gnuoy> The main config is in /srv/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org/pqm-config/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org.conf...
[09:49] <vila> the former is probably irrelevant (or rather specific to pqm and unknown to bzr)
[09:50] <gnuoy> fwiw, it contains: https://pastebin.canonical.com/57867/
[09:50] <gnuoy> I assumed pqm.bazaar-vcs.org.conf was the relevant file
[09:52] <vila> for pqm yes
[09:52] <gnuoy> given those 2 files does the change need to go into /home/pqm/.bazaar/locations.conf then ?
[09:52] <vila> yup
[09:52] <gnuoy> vila, ok, thats simple then
[09:52] <gnuoy> :)
[09:53] <vila> my bet would be that {workdir} is relevant as the highest section name we want to use
[09:53] <vila> as in: that's probably below this dir that the merges occur
[09:54] <vila> gnuoy: moving to a new room...
[09:55] <gnuoy> vila, the chroot is under /srv/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org/chroot so is this what I need to add ?: https://pastebin.canonical.com/57868/
[09:57] <vila> I'll add home/pqm/pqm-workdir (without a final /)
[09:58] <vila> just to make sure it applies to bzr only (even if bzr is not mentioned there...)
[09:58] <AfC> What's the default branch for ancestor: ?
[10:01] <vila> AfC: ancestor: applies to a branch, I don't get what default you're after O_o
[10:01] <vila> I should be missing your context
[10:01] <AfC> vila: I just did
[10:01] <AfC> $ bzr diff -r ancestor:
[10:01] <AfC> vila: and it did something. I just don't know what branch it did it against.
[10:02] <vila> the current one in the directory you ran bzr diff
[10:02] <vila> bzr info should tell you
[10:02] <AfC> vila: bzr info says the usual useless information, like "parent" and "submit" like I'd know what the difference is
[10:03] <vila> submit_branch is probably relevant
[10:03] <AfC> vila: ie it doesn't mention "ancestor"
[10:03] <gnuoy> vila, so the entry should be https://pastebin.canonical.com/57869/ ?
[10:03] <vila> parent is where you branch from, submit is where you merge from
[10:04] <vila> so 'parent' should be more relevant than 'submit', sorry
[10:04] <AfC> vila: excellent.
[10:04] <AfC> vila: we are, regrettably, no closer to knowing what the definition of ancestor: is.
[10:05] <vila> gnuoy: yup, that sounds good
[10:05] <AfC> vila: [not your fault, just a lack of polish in bzr command line interface]
[10:06] <vila> AfC: I'm using submit: far more than ancestor: myself
[10:06] <AfC> vila: been using ancestor:/path/to/whatever for years.
[10:06] <AfC> vila: no one told me I wasn't supposed to use it.
[10:07] <vila> the subtle distinction between them is... not always clear to me
[10:07] <AfC> heh
[10:07] <vila> in most of the cases I know they give the same results
[10:07] <AfC> er. wait
[10:07] <AfC> vila: ancestor: is a calculation
[10:07] <AfC> vila: submit: is just a tip
[10:07] <AfC> right?
[10:08] <AfC> especially for branches that have far diverged
[10:08] <vila> well, 'ancestor' is where you came from, 'submit' is where you want to go
[10:08] <vila> so the resulting diff is often the same
[10:09] <AfC> ah, interesting
[10:09] <AfC> I thought submit was a location
[10:09] <AfC> in fact, it is something in bazaar.conf
[10:09] <AfC> whereas,
[10:10] <AfC> $ bzr help revisionspec
[10:10] <AfC> ...
[10:10] <AfC> submit:
[10:10] <AfC>         Selects a common ancestor with the submit branch.
[10:10] <AfC> ancestor:
[10:10] <AfC>         Selects a common ancestor with a second branch.
[10:10] <AfC> wtf
[10:10] <AfC> oh, right
[10:10] <vila> true, but as far as diff is concerned, they both provide a revision
[10:10] <AfC> the whacked out
[10:10] <AfC> difference between
[10:10] <AfC> :submit and -r submit:
[10:12] <vila> the former is a location, the later is the tip of this location (i.e. a revision)
[10:16] <vila> gnuoy: should I throw a test at pqm ?
[10:17] <gnuoy> vila, yes pls
[10:18] <vila> gnuoy: done, waiting for result
[10:20] <vila> gnuoy: tests didn't start so probably still failing :-/
[10:20] <vila> gnuoy: can find some log about the latest bzr pqm submission so we can check which dirs/branches were involved ?
[10:20] <vila> s/&/you/ somewhere ;)
[10:21] <blackarchon> hi all
[10:22] <blackarchon> i'm wondering what "qsubprocess --bencode ..." exactly does
[10:23] <gnuoy> vila, the log only seems to contain "Conflicts during merge: Text conflict in doc/en/release-notes/bzr-2.5.txt"
[10:23] <vila> gnuoy: right, that confirms we failed :)
[10:24] <vila> gnuoy: how about the .bzr.log file on the host (not the chroot) ?
[10:25] <gnuoy> vila, nothing in the past hour
[10:25] <vila> O_O
[10:26] <vila> gnuoy: can you paste some of it ?
[10:27] <gnuoy> vila, https://pastebin.canonical.com/57870/
[10:27] <vila> gnuoy: otherwise we have to revise some belief, so may be the merge occurs *in* the chroot ??
[10:29] <gnuoy> vila, I'm not sure how to determine that
[10:29] <vila> gnuoy: bzr version 2.1.4 !!!
[10:29] <gnuoy> vila, the date is old
[10:29] <vila> gnuoy: well, the .bzr.log in the chroot will give plenty of hints about what is done there
[10:30] <vila> gnuoy: or did you mean you don't know where to find this log file ?
[10:30] <gnuoy> vila, I assume its /srv/pqm.bazaar-vcs.org/chroot/home/pqm/.bzr.log
[10:31] <vila> sounds good
[10:32] <gnuoy> vila, https://pastebin.canonical.com/57871/
[10:33] <vila> ok, so only selftest runs there
[10:34] <vila> but your previous log paste is not good, it says 2011-10-10
[10:34] <gnuoy> yes, I saw that
[10:34] <vila> gnuoy: may be you looked in the old pqm host ?
[10:35] <gnuoy> nope
[10:36] <vila> gnuoy: I'm lost, but there should be a .bzr.log file containing more recent events
[10:43] <vila> gnuoy: may be you *could* look in the old pqm host ? ;-)
[10:43] <vila> gnuoy: (never underestimate silly ideas when all the smart ones fail ;)
[10:47] <gnuoy> vila, there is a bzr.log for the pqm user on the old host but I don't think its relevant, https://pastebin.canonical.com/57872/
[10:49] <vila> gnuoy: you're right, doesn't seem relevant for bzr
[10:50] <gnuoy> vila, I don't suppose this entry from the pqm logs is any help? https://pastebin.canonical.com/57873/
[10:52] <vila> gnuoy: hmm, there is a cwd mentioned there... that I never hear about, but that may indeed be the one we're after ?
[10:52] <vila> gnuoy: and it mentions bzr... (well, bazaar at least_
[10:52] <vila> )
[10:53] <vila> gnuoy: so if we can't find the .bzr.log file you may at least try it at the section name and do another test
[10:54] <vila> gnuoy: switching room again (with  a laptop mentioning low battery while being in charge for the last hour :-/)
[11:08] <niemeyer> Hello there!
[11:09] <niemeyer> We were just wondering what's the state of the multiple-branches-per-directory feature
[11:09] <niemeyer> Is that receiving any attention nowadays?
[11:10] <jelmer> niemeyer: hi
[11:10] <niemeyer> jelmer: Yo!
[11:10] <jelmer> niemeyer: yes, we've been working on that for 2.5
[11:10] <niemeyer> jelmer: Sweet!
[11:10] <jelmer> there is an experimental format named 'development-colo' in 2.5 that adds such support
[11:10] <jelmer> the plan is to eventually merge that support back into the 2a format (as it'd be backwards compatible)
[11:10] <niemeyer> jelmer: Is the experimental feature "experimentable" ATM? :-)
[11:11] <niemeyer> jelmer: Our workflows with Go ATM are a bit ugly and boring to deal with.. this would be quite a neat improvement
[11:11] <jelmer> niemeyer: it does work, but the UI isn't completely there yet
[11:12] <niemeyer> jelmer: What important pieces are missing?
[11:12] <jelmer> niemeyer: at the moment you still need to address colocated branches (as they're being named) by their full URL, rather than by short names as in e.g. git or mercurial
[11:12] <niemeyer> jelmer: If it's workable and won't eat our lunch, we can probably be guinea pigs for it
[11:12] <niemeyer> jelmer: Ok, but what about local use?
[11:12] <jelmer> niemeyer: so "bzr log file:,branch=foo" or "bzr log file:///home/jelmer/src/samba,branch=foo" rather than just "bzr log foo" if you're already in /home/jelmer/src/samba
[11:13] <niemeyer> jelmer: Ok, I could live with that
[11:13] <jelmer> niemeyer: I'm very interested to hear about anything else you run into
[11:14] <niemeyer> jelmer: How do I get started on it?
[11:14] <jelmer> niemeyer: the name we're using for it is co-located branches, the existing known bugs are here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bugs?field.tag=colocated
[11:14] <jelmer> niemeyer: upgrade to development-colo ('bzr upgrade --development-colo')
[11:15] <jelmer> niemeyer: you'd probably want to use the bzr daily builds if you do this, I think a fair number of fixes was made after beta 4
[11:15] <niemeyer> jelmer: Sounds good
[11:15] <jelmer> niemeyer: "bzr branches" will list the existing branches
[11:16] <niemeyer> jelmer: Ah, I've seen that one elsewhere ;).. sweet
[11:17] <niemeyer> jelmer: and to create / checkout new branches onto the existing tree?
[11:17] <niemeyer> jelmer: If there's documentation elsewhere, I'd be happy to read rather than pestering you :)
[11:19] <niemeyer> For those following at home, you'll want this: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bzr/daily
[11:20] <jelmer> niemeyer: I haven't gotten around to writing that yet unfortunately, mostly because there are still a few rough edges in the UI to fix up
[11:20] <jelmer> (you have been warned)
[11:20] <niemeyer> jelmer: :-)
[11:21] <jelmer> niemeyer: creating a new branch should be "bzr init file:,branch=bla" to create a branch named "bla"
[11:21] <jelmer> (eventually that'll be just "bzr init bla")
[11:28] <niemeyer> jelmer: Just so I understand the underlying model, why the file: prefix?
[11:31] <jelmer> niemeyer: mostly because of our internals
[11:31] <jelmer> niemeyer: we do want to support plain colocated branch names
[11:32] <niemeyer> jelmer: Yeah, I guessed that.. was just wondering what file: would cause to the internals so I can infer when to use it
[11:32] <jelmer> niemeyer: we use a , for path segment parameters, but that only works for URLs at the moment, not for local file paths
[11:33] <niemeyer> jelmer: Aha, gotcha, thanks
[11:34] <jelmer> (we didn't want to break people who had branches with comma's in their path)
[11:37] <niemeyer> jelmer: sensible
[11:37] <niemeyer> jelmer:
[11:38] <niemeyer> [niemeyer@gopher ~/a]% bzr branches
[11:38] <niemeyer> * (default)
[11:38] <niemeyer>   foo
[11:38] <niemeyer> jelmer: How to reference to that "default" branch
[11:38] <niemeyer> jelmer: Just trying to understand how to get started with a directory containing branches
[11:38] <jelmer> niemeyer: with no branch argument you'll get the default branch
[11:39] <niemeyer> jelmer: Hmm.. doesn't seem to work in this case..
[11:42] <niemeyer> Hmm.. it's not clear how to check an existing branch out either
[11:42] <niemeyer> If I use "bzr checkout file:,branch=foo", I get a real directory called ",branch=foo" in the current path
[11:44] <niemeyer> jelmer: ^
[11:46] <jelmer> niemeyer: sorry, at the platform rally atm.. was distracted for a bit
[11:46] <niemeyer> jelmer: Maybe we should talk live.. :-)
[11:46] <jelmer> niemeyer: ah, cool - didn't realize you were here too
[11:46] <niemeyer> jelmer: :)
[11:46] <jelmer> niemeyer: yeah, that might be easier
[11:46] <niemeyer> jelmer: The above history is good, though.. I plan to share it
[11:51] <niemeyer> jelmer: Yeah, I don't know how to switch a branch I'm afraid
[11:58] <jelmer> niemeyer: the setup is a bit tricky at the moment, I'll have a look at it later today and get back to you if that's okay
[12:59] <blackarchon> is there a recent manual on how to create a bzr install for windows?
[20:17] <mwhudson> lifeless: not so as you can tell, but ok


[03:58] <lamont> meh.  I wish the hardy ia64 kernel would actually mount the raid root device for me..
[03:58] <lamont> ah... iz missing scsi driver it would appear.
[04:27] <ripps> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but does anybody here know where I can find an Ubuntu repository for the new 2.6.25 kernels?
[04:35] <ripps> Hello?
[04:41] <ripps> Is this not the right place?
[04:47] <johanbr> ripps: Nowhere. At least as far as official repos go.
[04:50] <ripps> Okay, I guess I'll have to compile it using KernelCheck
[16:01] <osmosis> what is, /dev/mapper/loop0p1 ?
[22:14] <Aranel> In Ubuntu Hardy Kernel, CONFIG_NUMA = y or n ?
[22:18] <mjg59> y
[22:19] <Aranel> oh, can you say same thing for gutsy kernel?
[22:20] <Aranel> I found a problem with random segfaults and I think the reason is config_numa.
[22:21] <mjg59> Also y
[22:21] <mjg59> On AMD64 and ia64 only - i386 doesn't have it
[22:22] <Aranel> my system is i686
[22:23] <Aranel> and It occurs random segfaults since hardy upgrade.
[22:24] <Aranel> http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0401.2/1627.html
[22:24] <Aranel> its an old message but it says the problem is config_numa .
[22:56] <cheddarcheese> are there -mm patches in the ubuntu kernel?
[23:14] <Aranel> will you release a new kernel patch ? i heard -and i have too- crash/freezes in 8.04 . And I have a random segfault problem with new kernel.
[23:16] <BenC> cheddarcheese: no
[23:17] <BenC> Aranel: If you are running a 32-bit x86 kernel, there is no CONFIG_NUMA
[23:17] <BenC> Aranel: and unless you can provide us with a patch that fixes the problem, we can't reliably say whether it will get fixed or not
[23:18] <Aranel> i'm running a 32-bit x86_64 kernel but I have random segfaults. And I can find only a one document it says config_numa :/
[23:18] <Aranel> If I send you my dmesg log, can you find the real problem for me ? :)
[23:21] <mjg59> Aranel: 32-bit x86_64 kernel?
[23:22] <Aranel> uhh, i'm using 32-bit Ubuntu with hardy kernel. in uname -a it says i686.
[23:22] <Aranel> (this ixxx think is confusing :)
[23:22] <mjg59> Then you don't have CONFIG_NUMA
[23:22] <Aranel> hmm but I still have a problem  :)
[23:23] <Aranel> If I send you my dmesg, can you explain it for me ?
[23:23] <alex_joni> Aranel: you can easily check by looking in to /boot/config-'uname -r'
[23:23] <Aranel> I googled it but I cant find anything.


[23:40] <tmpRAOF> Hey, doko - why is the gccgo 4.9.2 sync in the Trusty unapproved queue? The only “bug” it seems to fix is enabling cgo on aarch64, and adding a feature seems a bit incongruous with a SRU :)
[23:53] <doko> tmpRAOF, it's a fix to enable that ...