[00:35] <TechieElf> anyone here know how to customize boot.img to recognize the partitions of my device?
[01:16] <Crimson_Rogue> Hello. I'm getting errors when I try to compile ubuntu-touch. Could someone tell me what's wrong please?
[01:16] <Crimson_Rogue> http://pastebin.com/zvjpJYyZ
[02:20] <nixm> hello
[02:20] <nixm> im looking for a tablet that would work with ubuntu 13
[02:21] <nixm> that i could load the current ubuntu onto it and use linux video editing tools like openshot on the field for video production work
[02:21] <nixm> any suggestions
[02:21] <nixm> andriod 4.1 tablet
[02:21] <nixm> ?
[02:34] <RobbyF> none that i'm aware of
[02:34] <RobbyF> or wait, I think there is a dell tablet that will work with ubuntu
[02:46] <nixm> RobbyF so nothing particular popular on the floor right now that i could pick up tomorrow and format the drive and install ubuntu
[02:47] <RobbyF> nothing I've seen.
[02:47] <RobbyF> maybe others have
[02:49] <nixm> RobbyF thanks :)
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <Mirv> dholbach: click 0.4.12 for saucy/raring/quantal/precise in SDK PPA. I copied 0.4.11 to ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/experimental in case some problem is found that I didn't see in the quick smoke test.
[08:10] <Mirv> and morning
[08:10] <dholbach> Mirv, awesome
[08:10] <dholbach> :)
[08:12] <dholbach> Mirv, jppiiroi1en had started some work integrating the click-reviewers-tools into the SDK, so I added the c-r-t daily builds to the staging ppa - do you think it'd make sense to copy them over to the release ppa every now and then? or is the package not really used yet?
[08:13] <Mirv> dholbach: better ask bzoltan1, I don't really know
[08:14] <Mirv> good to have daily builds anyhow somewhere, and yes manual copy of a smoketested one is probably better than straight build in the release ppa
[08:17] <dholbach> Mirv, it doesn't change very often and it's been very stable
[08:19] <dholbach> Mirv, but yeah, I'll ask bzoltan1
[08:47] <bzoltan1> dholbach:  I am here
[08:47] <dholbach> bzoltan1, so yeah - like I said above... I'm not sure if the integration of click-reviewers-tools ever landed officially in the SDK
[08:48] <dholbach> so I'm not sure how much sense it makes to copy the package from staging to release ppa
[08:51] <bzoltan1> dholbach:  let me check it
[09:26] <Mirv> dholbach: it's in the SDK, but I don't know if it works without manually setting the path to "/usr" in setting (which I seem to have, which probably means it worked with that setting found by experimentation)
[09:26] <Mirv> so, sure it's more WIP
[09:41] <dholbach> Mirv, ok, gotcha
[09:53] <pitti> tvoss_, kalikiana_, jibel: meeting in 7 mins?
[09:53] <tvoss_> pitti, yup
[09:54] <jibel> pitti, yes
[10:35] <_randomcpp> is there any api (ready or planned) to access ubuntu camera?
[10:49] <pitti> kalikiana_, tvoss_: I updated my notes on http://pad.ubuntu.com/sensors-testing FYI
[10:49] <tvoss_> pitti, thanks :)
[10:50] <pitti> kalikiana_, tvoss_: finally some administrative stuff: I'd like to transform this into work items; is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-sensor-service still relevant, or should I just stuff it into my "catch-all" https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-t-upstream-test-development ?
[10:50] <tvoss_> pitti, I would think the work items fit better into the testing bp
[10:51] <pitti> tvoss_: WFM; just wanted to know if you want to track it someplace else
[10:51] <tvoss_> pitti, nope, all good :)
[11:03] <pitti> tvoss_: ok, added
[11:10] <t1mp> does someone have suggestions on how to revive a galaxy nexus that seems dead?
[11:11] <t1mp> I just had it charge for 24h with two different chargers and cables, but the device does nothing. screen off and no vibrations
[11:11] <t1mp> I tried holding all the buttons for 20s
[11:11] <t1mp> adb doesn't see it.
[11:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:11] <t1mp> and when I plug it into my computer, the kernel doesn't even see that something happens
[11:11] <t1mp> davmor2: good morning to you too
[11:12] <davmor2> t1mp: did you remove the battery and put it back in again?
[11:13] <t1mp> davmor2: yes
[11:14] <davmor2> t1mp: daft question you didn't have the lead plugged in at the time though right?
[11:15] <t1mp> I think not
[11:15] <t1mp> but I'll try again to be sure.
[11:18] <t1mp> wow.
[11:18] <t1mp> davmor2: I removed the battery before, but now I kept it out for a minute or so before I put it back.
[11:18] <t1mp> at least the screen works (says Google)
[11:18] <t1mp> whee :)
[11:19] <t1mp> and my kernel sees a usb device when I connect it :)
[11:21] <davmor2> t1mp: yeah if you leave the lead in the phone still gets power so remains in the locked state
[11:21] <davmor2> I found that one out the hard way too, so you are not alone :)
[11:23] <t1mp> davmor2: the lead was out when I tried previously
[11:23] <t1mp> davmor2: but I always took out the battery for a second before putting it back.
[11:23] <t1mp> davmor2: leaving it out for a few minutes helps :)
[11:23] <t1mp> thanks :)
[11:35] <janimo> ogra_, rsalveti do you know if which one is the nexus 4 kernel tree? The branches on kernel.ubuntu.com seem to be 6 months old
[11:42] <ogra_> janimo, should be tagged mako ... beyond that you have to ask the kernel team
[11:51] <xnox> janimo: ubuntu-trusty should have branches, mako should be one of them.
[11:51] <janimo> xnox, thanks, found it
[12:38] <rsalveti> janimo: yeah, they are all branches of the ubuntu-trusty tree now
[12:57] <TechieElf> Any porters here? I need someone to help me customize my boot.img so it can read my device's partition table
[13:00] <TechieElf> Hashcode, you're definitely experienced, would you happen to know how?
[13:51] <popey> pete-woods: could you please look at bug 1253593 ?
[13:52] <popey> I'm at 4 days...
[13:52] <popey>  3989 alan      20   0 2095m 467m 1764 S   5.3  5.9 108:53.05 hud-service
[13:52] <pete-woods> popey: wow, that's pretty awful
[13:55] <pete-woods> popey: there's already something in the plan for this, a significant rework of the HUD service
[13:55] <TechieElf> can anyone explain to me what exactly the problem is with my boot loop? I have the last_kmsg in a paste
[13:55] <pete-woods> as it's about as water tight as a sieve at the moment
[13:56] <TechieElf> http://pastebin.com/8ZQLixZv
[14:01] <Blackwizard> Hi.. I want to buy a tablet and I would like to install ubuntu on it...
[14:01] <TechieElf> Blackwizard: The Nexus 7 or B&N Nook Tablet would be a good choice
[14:01] <Blackwizard> do you have any suggestion for me?
[14:03] <Blackwizard> is it supported on nexus 7 completely?
[14:04] <TechieElf> Blackwizard: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArLs7UPtu-hJdDZDNWliMmV1YUJ3Zk1pQlpDdGp4VFE&usp=sharing#gid=0 read there for what is and is not working
[14:04] <TechieElf> Blackwizard, the B&N Nook Tablet seems to be fully supported: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/acclaim
[14:11] <Blackwizard_> Do you have any other suggestion to buy a tablet that support ubuntu touch?
[14:12] <frecel> popey: hi
[14:12] <popey> yo
[14:12] <Blackwizard_> anybody test ubuntu touch on tablet?
[14:12] <frecel> what version of ubuntu are you running on your phone?
[14:12] <popey> Blackwizard_: currently we support the nexus 7 and nexus 10
[14:13] <popey> frecel: i have two phones...
[14:13] <Blackwizard_> full supported?
[14:14] <popey> frecel: running image #32 on one, and #37 on the other
[14:14] <popey> basically one is running the devel channel and the other is running the devel-proposed
[14:14] <popey> Blackwizard_: depends what you mean by "fully supported"
[14:15] <frecel> I'm running 13.10 (just followed this http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/install) and I'm having a ton of issues with it
[14:16] <frecel> and I'm wondering if there is something more stable out there
[14:16] <popey> Blackwizard_: we only support the 2012 nexus 7 not the 2013 one at the moment
[14:16] <frecel> and before you ask, yes, I will submit bug reports once I have time to sit down and replicate everything
[14:16] <popey> hah
[14:16] <popey> you know me so well
[14:17] <popey> well, 13.10 is a bit old now
[14:17] <popey> we've built about 30 newer images than that since then
[14:19] <Blackwizard_> popey: any other suggestion to buy a tablet supports ubuntu touch?
[14:19] <frecel> the most annoying issue I'm having is that the audio playback stops when the music player is running in the background or when I turn off the screen
[14:20] <popey> Blackwizard_: currently, as I said, Nexus 7 (2012) and Nexus 10.
[14:20] <popey> frecel: thats fixed
[14:20] <frecel> awesome
[14:20] <frecel> so where do I find a newer image to flash my phone with?
[14:25] <JamesTait> In the Time & Date panel in System Settings, I see the correct time, but the incorrect time zone (BST instead of GMT).  Anyone else in Europe/London timezone seeing the same?
[14:25] <Blackwizard_> I want to buy nexus 2013 but I want be sure that supports ubuntu
[14:26] <frecel> Blackwizard_: you just have to bug popey about it every day until they start supporting it
[14:26] <popey> frecel: phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel=trusty
[14:27] <popey> JamesTait: mine says Etc\UTC
[14:27] <Blackwizard_> I should pay for supportin ubuntu touch...
[14:27] <popey> JamesTait: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-11-29-142737.png
[14:27] <Blackwizard_> what about other models?
[14:28] <popey> !devices | Blackwizard_
[14:28] <frecel> what? you can take screenshots too?
[14:28] <JamesTait> popey, sorry, I didn't explain that well.
[14:28] <frecel> that 13.10 image is waaaaay behind
[14:29] <JamesTait> popey, where you have Etc/UTC..UTC+0 I have Europe/London..UTC+0
[14:29] <JamesTait> popey, at the bottom of the screen, where you have $date_time UTC, I have $date_time BST.
[14:29] <popey> JamesTait: i probably never set that on this phone
[14:29] <popey> lemme check the other one
[14:30] <popey> yes
[14:30] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-11-29-142959.png
[14:30] <popey> thats the other one which is my main phone
[14:30] <JamesTait> Right, not just me then.
[14:30] <popey> bug time
[14:30] <JamesTait> Indeed. :)
[14:30] <JamesTait> popey, are you raising it or shall I?
[14:30] <popey> feel free
[14:31]  * popey is debugging an overheating laptop
[14:31] <JamesTait> I'll let you know the lp#
[14:31] <popey> ta
[14:31] <popey> add the above screenshot if you like
[14:32] <frecel> also, you may want to know that it has begun... http://polishedperspective.com/
[14:32] <JamesTait> popey, yeah, it does a far better job of describing the problem than I did. :-P
[14:33] <popey> frecel: nice
[14:34] <frecel> I will have to talk you into doing a hangout one day so I have something to post when I don't feel like writing
[14:36] <frecel> popey: Gotta go it a free breakfast at the company meeting now, thanks for helping me out with this
[14:38] <JamesTait> popey, lp#1256341
[14:38] <JamesTait> Oh, no bot in here.
[14:38] <Laney> bug #1256341
[14:39] <JamesTait> Ah, different syntax. Thanks Laney. ::)
[14:40] <Laney> wtf
[14:40] <Laney> that has to be a Qt bug
[14:42] <Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/view/head:/plugins/time-date/PageComponent.qml#L80
[14:42] <Laney> that is the code to display the time there
[14:42] <JamesTait> No idea. I leave the smart people to figure that stuff out, I just break stuff. :)
[14:43] <Laney> one sec
[15:03] <Laney> there we go
[15:03] <Laney> u-s-s is innocent of all charges
[15:06] <cwayne_> cjwatson, hey, any chance https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1253855 is on your radar?  it's currently blocking account-plugins as clicks
[15:07] <JamesTait> Laney, because...?  Qt bug?
[15:07] <JamesTait> Or human bug? ;)
[15:08] <Laney> JamesTait: Qt :P
[15:14] <cjwatson> cwayne_: I'm working on urgent GRUB bugs this week and probably a portion of next
[15:14] <cjwatson> cwayne_: It's on my radar, yes, but no further advanced than the last two times you asked about it :-)
[15:28] <Laney> can I link lp bugs to qt upstream bugs?
[15:29] <seb128> Laney, I don't think so
[15:29] <Laney> nod
[15:30] <seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/157488
[15:32] <Laney> ack
[15:33] <Laney> just commented with the url then
[15:41] <seb128> Cimi, can you top approve https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10/+merge/196920 ?
[15:49] <seb128> Cimi, thanks
[16:22] <Saviq> ogra_, hey, you ever got to how Ursinha lost her upstart session?
[16:23] <Saviq> ogra_, I think I just had the same, and there was a /usr/bin/init .crash file
[16:23] <Ursinha> Saviq, no, xnox guided me through collecting info and filed a bug
[16:23] <Ursinha> let me find it
[16:23] <Saviq> Ursinha, I *think* it might stem from upstart crashing
[16:24] <alex____> hello
[16:24] <alex____> i want to install ubuntu "mobile"
[16:24] <alex____> my phone is java
[16:24] <Ursinha> Saviq, bug 1255569
[16:25] <xnox> Saviq: Ursinha didn't have a crash file. If you have one, please attach it to bug 1255569
[16:25] <Saviq> xnox, right, not any more ;(
[16:25] <xnox> *sigh* how did you get there? =)
[16:25] <alex____> oh :(
[16:25] <Saviq> alex____, devices Ubuntu can be installed on are listed here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[16:25] <xnox> Saviq: as in the crash?
[16:26] <Saviq> xnox, a lot of unity8 ap tests
[16:26] <Saviq> xnox, will be doing more of that
[16:26] <xnox> Saviq: if there are any init crash files please copy/store them =)
[16:27] <alex____> tank`s
[16:27] <alex____> i waiting for this
[16:27] <Saviq> xnox, yeah, was too trigger-happy on rm /var/crash/* :/
[16:27] <Saviq> xnox, was too late when I noticed it
[16:28] <Saviq> and connected the dots
[16:51] <WebbyIT> Ehi rsalveti :-) Shall I use some of your photos of emulator on G+ for an article for Ubuntu Italy website? :-)
[16:53] <ogra_> WebbyIT, he is gone until monday ...
[16:54] <WebbyIT> ogra_, ok, thanks, so I have to find another source
[16:54] <ogra_> WebbyIT, feel free to use http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/edge-emu-landscape.png or http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/edge-emu.png
[16:54] <ogra_> (this is effectively how it will look soon by default as well)
[16:55] <WebbyIT> wow, thanks :)
[16:55] <ogra_> (probably with views of the sides added to provide volume and power buttons
[17:35] <cwayne_> ogra_, is there a way to emulate the power button in the emulator today?
[17:36] <ogra_> i think there si a key combo ... but given that powerd is forcefully enabled when gennerating the emulator image (since it breaks stuff) ... not sure what you want to do with it
[17:36] <ogra_> s/si/is/
[17:37] <cwayne_> ogra_, i wanted to test adding infographic sources, which is ont he lockscreen, which is shown when you poweron the phone
[17:38] <ogra_> cwayne_, seems ot be F7 according to http://developer.android.com/tools/help/emulator.html
[17:41] <cwayne_> ogra_, thanks
[17:49] <lops> good morning
[17:50] <lops> i'm having problems connecting a nexus 7 to and enterprise wifi (eduroam). does anybody have any tips on this?
[17:50] <lops> the nexus 7 is running ubuntu phone of course
[17:52] <ogra_> lops, do you happen to have an ubuntu laptop in the same wlan ? if so you can install phablet-tools on it and use phablet-network to copy the wlan config over USB
[17:52] <lops> thanks! I do have that :)
[17:59] <lops> ogra_, my wlan profiles were not copied to the tablet :/
[18:23] <cwayne_> mardy, heya, any progress on getting u-s-s-o-a looking for qml-plugins in a <click-id> dir?
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r>   YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r> WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,                       WARNING
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r> WARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r>  YOU MAYWATCHED
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r> YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[18:26] <zhbfvuvabar87r>    YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[18:28] <cwayne_> lolwut
[18:37] <lops> you can watch me any time
[18:37] <lops> wink. wink.
[19:10] <lops> anyone had any luck with wpa-eap in ubuntu touch?
[19:27] <sergiusens> lops, doesn't eap require certs and such to be installed on the device as well?
[19:28] <sergiusens> lops, I think the network manager profile would have an entry pointing to them
[19:28] <sergiusens> lops, just make sure they're on the device as well
[19:28] <lops> the GUI doesn't do anything. i copied the configs from my laptop to the phone
[19:29] <davmor2> hey guys will side stage be available on grouper?
[19:29] <sergiusens> davmor2, I am almost 99.999% sure it won't
[19:29] <sergiusens> davmor2, not enough room for a stage
[19:29] <sergiusens> lops, I wouldn't mind with the GUI
[19:30] <sergiusens> lops, you copied the configs, but did you copy the keys?
[19:30] <lops> hm, where can i find them?
[19:30] <davmor2> sergiusens: that's what I thought then I held my phone across it's width and it looked doable at that point hence asking :)
[19:31] <lops> sergiusens, the phone will connct to  open networks (guest network), so that could be it
[19:31] <sergiusens> lops, look in the config you said you copied, should be in there
[19:31] <mardy> cwayne_: nope, I've been busy on other stuff
[19:33] <lops> sergiusens, no keys, only configs and my login
[19:34] <sergiusens> lops, eap has many extensions
[19:34] <sergiusens> lops, if you know how to manually connect from the desktop; you can most likely do the same from the device
[19:34] <sergiusens> lops, I'm no eap expert btw
[19:35] <lops> sergiusens, thanks for the help
[19:35] <sergiusens> lops, but your config should look similar to https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1215767#p1215767
[19:35] <sergiusens> with entries such as ca-cert=
[19:35] <sergiusens> those need to be on the device
[19:41] <lops> sergiusens, was that password obfuscated? should my password be in plaintext like that?
[19:43] <gr72> Hey guys, I'm trying to install Touch on my samsung galaxy tab 10.1. I'm trying to unlock my tablet by using the fastboot eom unlock, but when I do fasboot devices, my tab isn't seen. But it is seen by adb. Any help? (sys - Arch)
[19:43] <sergiusens> lops, it's read only by root
[19:43] <lops> sergiusens, thx, i'll try that
[20:04] <jacekn> hello. Is ther any way to go back to previous screen other that using bottom edge swipe and tapping "back"? I find it a bit slow to use
[20:05] <jacekn> and it is inconsistent - when I go back to the main screen of an app there is no more "back", I would expect it to be there and take me to the home screen
[20:18] <TechieElf> Can someone help me with a boot loop? I've been at it for days now
[20:21] <TechieElf> Look, I know I'm not an accredited member of the Ubuntu Touch community, but I do need help. Can someone please spare me 5 minutes of their time to help solve this boot loop problem?
[20:29] <Beldar> TechieElf, If someone is on and feels they know generally they will help.
[20:29] <Beldar> details are the key here though
[20:31] <TechieElf> Beldar: Well, between IRC and the mailing list I've cried my little heart out with details. I have the last_kmsg and it seems that the partitions aren't successfully mounting, followed by a kernel panic.
[20:35] <TechieElf> Beldar, I blame the unfinished porting guide because in the TODO there is "Describe how to customize boot.img for the partitions of the device" which is exactly my issue
[20:36] <Beldar> TechieElf, it is a development, and customizing that is a bit of a stretch, in the end with linux you have to know what your doing.
[20:36] <Beldar> learning by failure is par for course. ;)
[20:37] <TechieElf> I'm (clearly) not an experience linux user, but I haven't had a problem porting until now. This pesky boot loop is the bane of my existence.
[20:37] <TechieElf> experienced*
[20:57] <dobey> TechieElf: for one thing, it's the weekend already in europe time zones, and a holiday weekend in the US. many people are just not around today, and likely won't be for the rest of the weekend. begging isn't going to change that :)
[20:59] <TechieElf> dobey: I'm in the US and (not so) surprisingly, not as many people as you would think actually spend the whole weekend celebrating Thanksgiving/Black Friday sales shopping. I also have been at IRC and spamming the mailing list all week with this problem :p
[21:00] <dobey> TechieElf: spamming doesn't help either. it will only make people want to filter you to /dev/null :)
[21:02] <TechieElf> dobey: I know, but sadly not a soul on this IRC or following the mailing list has replied to me outside of the past few minutes. Sadly, I know exactly how to fix the problem I just need to know how to find the file that I need to change..
[21:03] <dobey> i don't know
[21:03] <dobey> i do know that most all the people who i have to ping for my current issues, are offline due to aforementioned time zones and holidays
[21:05] <TechieElf> I am experiencing the same problem, but I've been here since 12:00 PM ET on Wednesday and no one has been available that knows how to help me. I guess I'm on my own.. again.
[21:10] <dobey> jacekn: no, that is the toolbar for the app, not a general system thing.
[21:11] <jacekn> dobey: hmmm OK it seems very inconsistent
[21:12] <dobey> i don't think it's inconsistent. it is a bit inconvenient though
[21:12] <jacekn> another inconsistency is with settings. For example terminal app has settings link at the top in the header. Shorts app has some options in the bottom toolbar
[21:13] <dobey> jacekn: file bugs then if you think so. irc is not the best place to discuss it
[21:13] <jacekn> dobey: it is inconsistent from the user perspective, if swipe from the bottom + tap on back button works in the app I (user) expect same behavior all the way through. But I understand what you say about system vs app
[21:13] <dobey> it does go all the way through the app. once you are at the top of the app there is no more back to go back to
[21:13] <jacekn> dobey: yes I am going to (added note to one already). Just not sure what the best plast is to report this UI things
[21:14] <dobey> jacekn: in launchpad against the apps
[21:14] <jacekn> they are not strictly speaking bugs, more of my personal thoughts
[21:14] <dobey> ui bugs are bugs


[01:09] <HFSPLUS> is it useless for hfsplus to go to #ubuntu?
[01:09] <HFSPLUS> i asked question yes i asked a question
[01:09] <HFSPLUS> i use
[01:09] <HFSPLUS> ubuntu
[01:10] <k1l> HFSPLUS: you are banned there. stay away from that channel
[01:11] <HFSPLUS> k1l, ok
[01:11] <HFSPLUS> when will i be unbanned
[01:11] <HFSPLUS> am i banned from ubuntuforums
[01:11] <HFSPLUS> yes or no
[01:12] <k1l> HFSPLUS: if you ask me: never! since you spoiled all trust that you will behave according to the code of conduct and the guidelines.
[01:12] <k1l> i dont know about ubuntuforums.
[01:12] <HFSPLUS> heres the technical part
[01:13] <HFSPLUS> i can change my ip address and change everything about my ident and user name and you would never know its me
[01:13] <HFSPLUS> but christ commands me to spread the gospel
[01:13] <HFSPLUS> so yah HFSPLUS IS PERMABANNED
[01:13] <HFSPLUS> i love my homies
[01:13] <HFSPLUS> ban me
[01:14] <HFSPLUS> heres a classic bazhang
[01:14] <k1l> HFSPLUS: pro-tip: if you want support from a community dont get annoying breaking the guidelines all the time
[01:14] <HFSPLUS> I WILL NOT LEAVE THIS ROOM UNTIL I AM BANNED I WILL WAIT HERE ALL NIGHT UNTIL TOMORROW UNTIL I AM BANNED
[01:16] <IdleOne> Hadn't he quit trolling?
[01:17] <rww> yes
[01:17] <IdleOne> He's doing a great job
[01:18] <IdleOne> interesting, I got a PM from him
[01:19] <IdleOne> s/interesting,//
[13:50] <k1l_> T0rch: hi, can we help you?
[13:54] <T0rch> hello k1l_, i was just wondering why there was no op in #ubuntu and they sent me here, i guess it's just for important people, so im going :)
[14:14]  * Pici feels important
[14:16] <k1l> set -r again
[14:29] <Pici> until niko stops doing stupid things (*wink*) I think we'll keep it set +r
[14:30]  * niko feels targeted
[15:18] <ikonia> T0rch: hey there
[21:24] <k1l> another troll form irccloud
[21:24] <k1l> *from
[21:28] <genii> k1l: Still manually going through the quiets?
[21:28] <k1l> i am done
[21:29]  * genii sips and ponders
[21:29] <k1l> quites in #ubuntu were in sync yesterday. bans should, too besides there is some missmatch between BT and ban list.
[21:30] <k1l> well, thinking about it i could imagine where the missmatch comes from. some bans were doubled when the freenode server reowned some bans after a netsplit.
[21:35] <k1l> and i think some ops got confused on @clearban. that only wipes the ban out of BT but not out of the channel
[21:37] <k1l> that was the irccloud guy
[21:38] <ikonia> yes
 because cholby has infinity IPs?
[23:34] <k1l> i thought it was just a regular troll just raging but no, its cholby


[03:47] <Madpilot> anyone here?
[03:48] <HrdwrBoB> vaguely
[03:48] <Madpilot> that's about how I'm here, too... ;)
[06:36] <Burgundavia> hello
[06:36] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: hi
[06:36] <Burgundavia> did you see the draft I threw up
[06:36] <Burgundavia> very rough
[06:36] <jsgotangco> let me check
[06:37] <jsgotangco> svn?
[06:37] <Burgundavia> no wiki
[06:37] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[06:37] <Madpilot> the draft quickguide? looks OK
[06:37] <jsgotangco> QuickTour?
[06:38] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:38] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: check RecentChanges, I added a bunch of search-engine-bait pages to Restricted
[06:39] <Burgundavia> cool
[06:39] <Burgundavia> thanks
[06:39] <Burgundavia> make rm a disambig
[06:39] <jsgotangco> hehe I LIKE IT
[06:40] <jsgotangco> marketing types will be happy with it
[06:41] <Madpilot> it's a good brochure page
[09:16] <Madpilot> anyone awake over here?
[09:16] <jsgotangco> zzz
[09:17] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:17] <jsgotangco> you can always holler Burgundavia he rarely sleeps
[09:18] <Burgundavia> hey
[09:19] <Burgundavia> check out quicktour right now
[09:19] <highvoltage> hi Madpilot.
[09:19] <highvoltage> i got up very early this morning.
[09:20] <jsgotangco> QuickTourDraft?
[09:20] <Madpilot> it's what, 0500 in South Africa? 0600?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:20] <highvoltage> it's 09:20 now.
[09:20] <highvoltage> i woke up at 4:25
[09:21] <highvoltage> which is about 5 hours ago :)
[09:21] <highvoltage> feels like it's time for lunch already...
[09:21] <Madpilot> hmm, I'd thought RSA was behind Zulu/UTM. nevermind!
[09:21] <highvoltage> nope, GMT+2. we're with the germans :)
[09:22] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: you can probably ask mpt's opinion on they layout
[09:22] <jsgotangco> it looks like a chessboard to me
[09:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:23] <Burgundavia> hopefully I can tweak it to be better spaced
[09:23] <Madpilot> it's ironic that you have to go back to table-layout hacks in wikis - no nice CSS layouts there!
[09:23] <Madpilot> how very 1990s...
[09:23] <jsgotangco> if its possible to simulate a mediawiki style picture box/caption, it could probably work
[09:23] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, I cannot see on this page how he turn off the border --> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
[09:24] <jsgotangco> although it would entail very serious css/xslt play on the source
[09:24] <jsgotangco> if its bound to be sourced anyways
[09:24] <Burgundavia> I am almost created this page as a subpage of my wikipedia user page
[09:24] <Burgundavia> s/am almost/almost
[09:25] <jsgotangco> since docbook is not presentation-centic as a format
[09:25] <Madpilot> "border=0" works on both CSS & tables.
[09:25] <Madpilot> but I haven't looked at the source of either page
[09:26] <Burgundavia> gah
[09:26] <Burgundavia> leave it as is
[09:26] <jsgotangco> i would suggest adding power tools/usage though
[09:26] <Burgundavia> I need to mention the services and about me
[09:26] <Burgundavia> and then play with the order
[09:27] <jsgotangco> the power stuff should be at the end
[09:27] <highvoltage> Madpilot: the table hacks on wikis suck :(
[09:27] <jsgotangco> the showstoppers at the top
[09:27] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:27] <Burgundavia> I am going to move the laptop support stuff to the top
[09:27] <Burgundavia> or near it, I should say
[09:27] <jsgotangco> yep
[09:27] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:28] <jsgotangco> is beagle to be included?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> no idea yet
[09:28] <jsgotangco> last i heard it was in danger of being not included
[09:28] <Burgundavia> it is
[09:28] <Burgundavia> should I mention menu-editing?
[09:28] <jsgotangco> nasty deps?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> no, not mature enough
[09:28] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:28] <jsgotangco> smeg is ubuntu-specific so yeah why not
[09:29] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:29] <jsgotangco> should give credit to Amaranth for that
[09:29] <jsgotangco> he worked so hard for that app
[09:30] <Madpilot> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html <-- this is an odd mix of tables & CSS
[09:30] <Burgundavia> it looks good
[09:30] <Burgundavia> the tables should probably be divs
[09:30] <Madpilot> he floats the images, but uses table cells to enforce the rest of the layout
[09:30] <jsgotangco> it works though
[09:30] <Madpilot> yeah, it does work. Pure CSS would be a bit better, but I'm a purist... :)
[09:31] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: its also a good idea to have different image sizes, although all of them should be a rectangle
[09:31] <Burgundavia> probably
[09:33] <jsgotangco> hmmm does A9 toolbar look evil to you?
[09:33] <Burgundavia> a9?
[09:34] <jsgotangco> the amazon search engine
[09:34] <jsgotangco> i like it because i can show a wikipedia result at the same time
[09:34] <jsgotangco> nice sample of AJAX cleverness
[09:34] <Burgundavia> my bloody left mouse button is dying
[09:35] <Madpilot> switch to a left-handed mouse layout, then left button = right button, therefore used slightly less!
[09:35] <Burgundavia> right, I mean left
[09:35] <Burgundavia> ;)
[09:36] <Madpilot> then get a job, so you can buy a new mouse...
[09:36] <Burgundavia> ouch
[09:36] <Burgundavia> we have from the 25th of august to the 8th of sept to take all screenshots
[09:36] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:36] <jsgotangco> pressure mounts
[09:37] <Burgundavia> and one month to finish writing
[09:37] <Madpilot> that's going to be a busy week...
[09:37] <jsgotangco> we are very much behind
[09:37] <Burgundavia> don't think so
[09:37] <jsgotangco> well ok im very much behind on cookbook
[09:37] <Burgundavia> well, you did just start
[09:37] <jsgotangco> i dont think userguide is shippable
[09:37] <Burgundavia> nope
[09:38] <Burgundavia> any kde stuff shippable?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> the faqguide is
[09:38] <jsgotangco> so we end  up with quicktour and faqguide
[09:38] <Burgundavia> then we ship the faqguide as default yelp homepage
[09:38] <Madpilot> how do you upload a pic to the U wiki? I want to stick a terminal window screenie in BasicCommands
[09:38] <Burgundavia> more actions drop down
[09:38] <jsgotangco> kde no idea it seemed to have lost steam when i turned over kubuntu quickguide
[09:39] <Burgundavia> and froud vanished into thin air
[09:39] <Burgundavia> although he is writing a book about ubuntu
[09:39] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: "More Actions - Attachments"?
[09:39] <jsgotangco> but i think quick tour and faqguide are good enough
[09:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, yes
[09:39] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:40] <Madpilot> thanks. now I need to reset my desktop to default for the screenshot...
[09:40] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, xnest
[09:40] <Madpilot> x-what?
[09:40] <Burgundavia> install xnest
[09:40] <Burgundavia> then create another user
[09:41] <Burgundavia> and login with them in xnest
[09:41] <jsgotangco> in a deeper thought, the next focus is harness existing docs and have them seen approriately instead of writing more docs
[09:41] <Burgundavia> to be honest, after people graduate fromt eh faq, they are likely to know how to google
[09:41] <Madpilot> gack. easier just to switch Gnome's themes briefly! interesting thought, tho
[09:41] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: right
[09:41] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, if you are going to be taking more screenshots, it is worth it
[09:42] <jsgotangco> its quite easy but can take time
[09:42] <Madpilot> just one terminal one right now... xnest can wait
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Microsoft buys in Wal-Mart talent <-- that sums up the current state of MS right there
[09:44] <Burgundavia> The Ubuntu Express installer that is being developed (and hopefully will
[09:44] <Burgundavia> be the default Breezy installer) includes such functionality.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu and any derived distro will be able to define a collection of
[09:44] <Burgundavia> images to be shown during the 15 minutes (aprox) of installation. This
[09:44] <Burgundavia> can be a combination of a GNOME tour (KDE tour for Kubuntu) plus
[09:44] <Burgundavia> highlights of the main applications that are being installed.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> sorry for the flood
[09:45] <Burgundavia> we need to plan for this
[09:45] <jsgotangco> ojeda's email?
[09:45] <jsgotangco> oh installer
[09:45] <Burgundavia> to ubuntu-devel from Quim gil
[09:46] <Madpilot> XP does something similar, doesn't it?
[09:46] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:46] <Madpilot> last time we installed XP, I seem to recall we went out for beer while it was grinding away...
[09:46] <Burgundavia> do we want that stuff to be the quick tour?
[09:46] <Burgundavia> that is about 15 minutes of stuff I have
[09:47] <Burgundavia> 45 secs each
[09:48] <Burgundavia> mentioned our effort in that thread
[09:48] <jsgotangco> i think its only applicable in an installer guide instead of a quick tour
[09:49] <Burgundavia> our quick tour?
[09:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:49] <Burgundavia> not really
[09:49] <Burgundavia> makes a good marketing webpage as well
[09:49] <Burgundavia> ala the davyd thing and that other one
[09:49] <jsgotangco> but your quicktour can only bee seen once installed
[09:50] <jsgotangco> unless you publish it on a page
[09:50] <jsgotangco> or a pdf
[09:50] <Burgundavia> I intend to
[09:50] <jsgotangco> its useful in a brochure though
[09:50] <Burgundavia> and each distinct section could go in that installer
[09:50] <Burgundavia> not perfect, but good enough for breezy
[09:51] <jsgotangco> would it be nice on 1st boot the quick tour opens
[09:51] <Burgundavia> that would be nice
[09:51] <Burgundavia> maybe hack the upgrader to show the same thing?
[09:52] <jsgotangco> good idea i totally forgot about upgrade paths
[09:52] <Burgundavia> don't know if it is doable at this late stage
[09:52] <Madpilot> which Help page has the images stuff?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> attachment:YourImage.png
[09:53] <Burgundavia> that adds it
[09:53] <Burgundavia> images are specific to one page, unlike mediawiki
[09:53] <Madpilot> got that - what about formatting and stuff? float:right;border:0 and all that?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> HelpOnTables
[09:54] <Madpilot> thanks
[09:58] <Madpilot> dog, what a *hack* wiki markup is. can't we just use normal XHTML/CSS tags? please?
[09:58] <Burgundavia> mediawiki markup is quite nice
[09:58] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:58] <Madpilot> I'd be done this image insertion already if I could use real markup!
[09:58] <jsgotangco> although moin can be simpler
[09:58] <Burgundavia> much less hacky
[09:59] <Madpilot> is the only way to float:right with an image to stick it into a table?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> you can probably go back to zwiki hell though
[09:59] <Madpilot> I can't see how I associate the attachment:image bit with actual markup...
[09:59] <Burgundavia> no idea
[09:59] <Burgundavia> you need to wrap the attachment in a table
[09:59] <Burgundavia> and then style that
[09:59] <Madpilot> you're kidding? what a horrible hack
[10:00] <jsgotangco> its the wikiwiki way
[10:00] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:00] <Burgundavia> no, it is the moin way
[10:00] <jsgotangco> oh right
[10:00] <jsgotangco> mediawiki has nicer image sytling
[10:00] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, speak of the devil, sean returns
[10:00] <jsgotangco> styling
[10:00] <jsgotangco> wa?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, check you inbox
[10:01] <Madpilot> bah. styling later. there's a screenshot here now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicCommands
[10:01] <jsgotangco> he's fixing the userguide
[10:01] <jsgotangco> kde userguide
[10:08] <Burgundavia> hey
[10:08] <jdub> ahr
[10:08] <jsgotangco> aye
[10:08] <jdub> dudes, i am excited :)
[10:08] <jdub> this is so much what the quickguide should be :-)
[10:08] <jsgotangco> desktop showstoppers
[10:09] <jsgotangco> yeah total rewrite
[10:09] <Burgundavia> the idea had been percolating through my head since we talked jdub
[10:10] <jsgotangco> i got convinced further when Burgundavia showed me the linuxguy.biz link
[10:10] <Burgundavia> I was lucky that jsgotangco bought into the idea
[10:10] <jdub> who is linuxguy.biz?
[10:11] <Burgundavia> http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
[10:11] <Burgundavia> he sells ubuntu to non-techies
[10:11] <Burgundavia> our parents, sisters, brothers, etc.
[10:11] <jdub> yeah, 'cos that page is rad
[10:11] <jdub> so for the tour, "intuitive interface" is a bit too generic
[10:11] <Burgundavia> I would buy ubuntu if I saw that page
[10:12] <jdub> perhaps it would be good to split up the tour into two parts
[10:12] <Burgundavia> "clear menus"
[10:12] <jdub> 1. general ubuntu benefits (probably ongoing)
[10:12] <Burgundavia> ubuntu in general and new in breezy?
[10:12] <jsgotangco> basic/advanced?
[10:12] <jdub> 2. new release benefits (changing with each release)
[10:12] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:13] <jdub> so 1. would include "easy software update"
[10:13] <Burgundavia> it sort of is, but I haven't really fleshed that out
[10:13] <jsgotangco> 2. can also serve as a changelog / whats new page?
[10:13] <Madpilot> Hmmm. General Ubuntu Benefits: 1. Free. 2. Free. 3. Have we mentioned that it's Free?  ;)
[10:13] <Madpilot> sorry, I'll go back to Minesweeper now...
[10:13] <jdub> Madpilot: yes, the "ubuntu commitment" could be one whole page
[10:14] <jdub> and that's definitely ubuntu-benefit-ongoing :-)
[10:14] <jdub> Burgundavia: perhaps writing out the list of benefits would be a good start
[10:14] <jdub> just as simple bullet points
[10:15] <jsgotangco> hmm lycoris did something similar like this before
[10:15] <jdub> we could start with BreezyGoals
[10:16] <jdub> - edubuntu -> not really an ubuntu user benefit
[10:16] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:16] <jsgotangco> Bluetooth support
[10:16] <jdub> + laptopmission -> "ubuntu works great on your laptop hardware!"
[10:17] <jdub> - oeminstaller -> not really an ubuntu user benefit
[10:17] <jdub> + thinclientintegration -> "run thin clients out of the box! <see documentation>"
[10:17] <Burgundavia> added to the list of Todo
[10:17] <Burgundavia> further stuff?
[10:17] <Burgundavia> jdub, I had thought of moving the latop stuff to a prominent section
[10:17] <Burgundavia> but am unsure about features that might not make it (nm and gnome-power)
[10:18] <jdub> +/- launchpadintegration -> hrm, could be pimped as user benefit, contribute to ubuntu, etc
[10:18] <jdub> + audiocdburning -> serpentine is a good feature in general
[10:18] <jdub> - audioinfrastructure -> not really a user benefit ("huh? sound works? well, ah, great... i guess")
[10:18] <Burgundavia> might be worth a one liner
[10:19] <jdub> + bluetoothsupport -> ubuntu talks to your phone
[10:19] <jdub> Burgundavia: not really, it rarely pays to talk about expectations as benefits ;)
[10:19] <Burgundavia> is that going to make it?
[10:19] <jdub> dunno
[10:19] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:20] <Burgundavia> I am in a bind, because of the stuff that might not make it
[10:20] <jdub> yeah
[10:20] <jdub> work with janew on that
[10:20] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:20] <jdub> will be good for pressure ;)
[10:20] <jdub> anyway, so goals page is a good place to start for 2nd group stuff
[10:20] <jdub> the new gnome features can also be helpful
[10:21] <jdub> improved file management is a good one from 2.12
[10:21] <Burgundavia> I cribbed quite heavily from davyds excellent stuff
[10:21] <Burgundavia> gnome should promote his work more
[10:21] <jdub> quite a few of linuxguy ones fit into the 1st group
[10:21] <jdub> for instance, gaim should always be in there as a user benefit
[10:22] <jdub> "talk to ALL your friends in one easy to use interface"
[10:22] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:22] <jdub> OOo is a good one
[10:22] <Burgundavia> already there
[10:22] <jdub> a page about GNOME in general
[10:22] <Burgundavia> "the power of gnome"?
[10:22] <jdub> good ones already about software management and installation
[10:23] <jdub> Burgundavia: perhaps push the usability, accessibility and i18n benefits
[10:23] <Burgundavia> glad niran didn't go awol on that
[10:23] <jsgotangco> automatic updateds and stuff
[10:23] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:23] <Burgundavia> "built on the highly usable and powerful Gnome desktop?"
[10:23] <jsgotangco> mednu editing?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> s/?"/'?
[10:23] <jdub> also flagging some of these things as available for windows *right off the live cd* would be cool
[10:23] <jdub> Burgundavia: powerful doesn't mean anything, easier not to say it :)
[10:24] <jdub> see www.gnome.org/about/
[10:24] <jdub> jsgotangco: hard to sell expectation as a benefit :)
[10:25] <Burgundavia> for LanguagePackRoadmap, there is a gui tool now, no?
[10:25] <jdub> yeah
[10:25] <jdub> haven't seen it yet though
[10:25] <jdub> oh, here we go
[10:25] <jdub> oof
[10:25] <jdub> ouch
[10:26] <Burgundavia> pda, soundevents and printing went nowhere?
[10:26] <jdub> have you been in touch with linuxguy?
[10:27] <Burgundavia> nope
[10:27] <jdub> ok
[10:27] <jdub> emailing now
[10:28] <Burgundavia> what about?
[10:28] <jdub> hi, love your page, want to help out in ubuntu/gnome?
[10:28] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:29] <Burgundavia> jdub, language-selector is already there
[10:29] <jdub> yeah, i just looked at it (oof, ouch above)
[10:32] <jsgotangco> hmm what about photoalbums and stuff
[10:32] <jsgotangco> like plugging in a digicam
[10:33] <jdub> jsgotangco: a 'just works' hardware angle?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:33] <jsgotangco> usb sticks, wlan sticks, etc
[10:34] <Burgundavia> is mono a feature?
[10:34] <Burgundavia> oo2?
[10:34] <Burgundavia> sure
[10:34] <jdub> OOo is, in general -> "complete office suite, compatible with common document formats"
[10:34] <jdub> mono isn't, really
[10:34] <jsgotangco> powe user/developer benefits?
[10:35] <jdub> jsgotangco: probably best to avoid those, unless they're deeply, deeply cool
[10:35] <Burgundavia> has SystemUpgradeTool gone anywhere?
[10:36] <jsgotangco> these are mostly desktop showcases at the moment
[10:38] <Burgundavia> I have added our notes to the ToDo section at the bottom
[10:40] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, ironically, there is a thread on -devel about dropping the workspace switcher
[10:40] <Madpilot> you mean the virtual desktop thingie?
[10:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:41] <HrdwrBoB> I used to use workspaces - I now use windowshade mode more
[10:41] <Burgundavia> just for the default desktop, you can still add it after
[10:41] <Madpilot> coolest new computer trick going, IMO, and they're going to drop it?
[10:41] <HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: I think that's a good idea
[10:41] <Madpilot> ah, OK, provided it's still available to switch on...
[10:41] <Burgundavia> there are some discoverablity issues
[10:41] <Burgundavia> and generaly usablity "where has my program gone" ones
[10:41] <Madpilot> "discoverability" means "what the heck is this?"
[10:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:42] <HrdwrBoB> but I have some odd views.. like home as desktop :)
[10:42] <Madpilot> yeah, I can see that. I still like it, tho
[10:42] <Madpilot> HrdwrBoB: we've argued about that already tonight...
[10:42] <Madpilot> ;)
[10:42] <HrdwrBoB> yeah :P
[10:43] <HrdwrBoB> see http://evolvedoo.sourceforge.net/abstract/#2 for another take on it
[10:44] <Madpilot> interesting - I'm still not convinced that it needs doing...
[10:45] <HrdwrBoB> it doesn't NEED doing - it's just my opinion that it's better (in that it Makes More Sense) but eh
[10:45] <HrdwrBoB> of more interesting note is that if you mouse over an mp3, it starts previewing and when you delete it with the delete key it keeps playing
[10:46] <Madpilot> now that's an entertaining bug... heh
[10:46] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, jdub I have to crash. Feel free to add more stuff to the todo/ the page itself or fire an email to the list.
[10:46] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:46] <jsgotangco> see you later
[10:55] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: awake?
[11:35] <mdke> yes :)
[11:35] <mdke> morning
[11:36] <jsgotangco> you've been quiet lately :)
[11:36] <jsgotangco> its unnatural
[11:37] <mdke> jsgotangco, as I said, I'm at the computer less so I'm quieter on irc
[11:37] <mdke> but I'm still checking it and emails
[11:39] <mdke> is there a meeting tomorrow?
[11:39] <jsgotangco> gf still around?
[11:39] <mdke> jsgotangco, yes
[11:39] <mdke> we're both looking for jobs
[11:39] <jsgotangco> oh god i totally forgot about it
[11:39] <mdke> and I'm looking for a house
[11:39] <mdke> hence the quiet :)
[11:41] <jsgotangco> what you think of the new direction of Quick Tour?
[11:42] <mdke> i think it will be a good document
[11:42] <mdke> i don't see why it should replace the quickguide
[11:42] <mdke> it's totally different
[11:42] <mdke> why not make them both?
[11:43] <jsgotangco> time
[11:44] <mdke> but the quickguide is already done no?
[11:44] <jsgotangco> needs thorough editing though
[11:45] <mdke> ah
[11:45] <mdke> what about the relationship between quick tour and about ubuntu?
[11:45] <mdke> the former is to some extent a subset of the latter
[11:46] <jsgotangco> if you scrollback it can probably be included in benefit 3
[11:47] <mdke> what is that?
[11:54] <mdke> brb
[12:25] <jsgotangco> night
[04:05] <mgalvin> hi all
[04:08] <mpt> hello mgalvin
[04:08] <mgalvin> hey mpt
[04:09] <mdke> hiya
[04:10] <mdke> mgalvin, did you get anywhere with packaging ubuntu-doc?
[04:12] <mgalvin> mdke: hi, i looked at it quickly a while ago and saw that some work was done on it, i didn't get a chance to build a working package... if we need/are ready for one i can jump back into it and get it built
[04:13] <mdke> i dunno if we are ready for one now, but I was just wondering about it
[04:14] <mdke> we have some time between string freeze and release so it can be sorted out then probably
[04:14] <mdke> we need to consider l10n too
[04:15] <mgalvin> ok, i will take a look at it again soon anyway so that when we need it, it will be ready
[04:28] <jjesse> morning
[04:29] <mgalvin> morning jjesse
[04:29] <jjesse> is it afternoon for you? :)
[04:29] <mgalvin> 10:30am here in NY :)
[04:30] <jjesse> same for here in mi
[04:30] <jjesse> i never remember what time zones people are in
[04:31] <mgalvin> wow, two people in the same time zone, who would have thought (for this team anyway ;)
[04:31] <jjesse> grin especially a US time zone
[11:44] <Burgundavia> ouch, openoffice, X and bunch of smaller stuff. 160mb to download
[11:56] <cat> hey does ubunto have a handbook like fbsd?
[11:56] <Burgundavia> what sort of handbook?
[11:56] <cat> well ubuntus
[11:57] <Burgundavia> targeted at what audience?


[07:25] <emgent> @schedule rome
[07:25] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 14 Mar 21:00: MOTU | 14 Mar 22:00: REVU Coordination | 19 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team
[10:59] <spaww> hi all
[10:59] <spaww> anybody have a comparation for SERVERS with red hat and ubuntu ?
[11:00] <spaww> i need to justify the utilization of ubuntu on my servers
[11:01] <spaww> no one ?
[11:01] <Keybuk> spaww: this channel is only used for meetings
[11:02] <Keybuk> spaww: try #ubuntu
[11:05] <spaww> ok tkz
[13:49] <pitti> hi
[13:50] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[13:50] <ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Mar 07:00: MOTU | 15 Mar 08:00: REVU Coordination | 20 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 27 Mar 08:00: Server Team
[13:50] <Hobbsee> ouch
[13:53] <zul> @schedule montreal
[13:53] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Mar 16:00: MOTU | 14 Mar 17:00: REVU Coordination | 19 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 17:00: Server Team
[13:53] <zul> thaaats better
[13:57]  * mvo waves
[13:57] <pedro_> hello hello!
[13:58] <Keybuk> fridge has forgotten our meeting again
[14:01] <seele> no Desktop meeting?  or did I get the time wrong?
[14:02] <pitti> seele: should happen right now
[14:02] <Keybuk> indeed
[14:03] <Keybuk> we're just waiting for the boss
[14:03] <Keybuk> oh, wait, that's me
[14:03] <mvo> the boss-boss ?
[14:03] <mvo> aha
[14:03] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-03-13
[14:04] <Keybuk> I didn't see any agenda items in the reports today
[14:04] <Keybuk> did I miss any?
[14:04] <kwwii> btw, I am here but I might be away shortly if my son starts puking again
[14:05] <tedg> This is precisely the reason video chat should never catch on....
[14:05] <kwwii> ;-)
[14:05] <Keybuk> nothing added to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingPage this week either
[14:05] <Keybuk> (hint) :p
[14:06] <seele> if there are no agenda items can i ask a question about the Desktop Experiences Templates?
[14:06] <pitti> *shrug* didn't find anything interesting to add
[14:07] <Keybuk> seele: of course, what is your question?
[14:07] <seele> What exactly are the goals of those pages?  i.e. what kind of content goes in to them?
[14:07] <seele> when i figure heard of them, i thought it would be a collection of user research information
[14:07] <seele> but they just look like use cases (not use scenarios which are tied to user research information)
[14:08] <seele> *should* they contain more user research, or did i misunderstand their purpose?
[14:08] <Keybuk> seele: a bit of everything at the moment; we're still working out what to put in them
[14:08] <Keybuk> the person you want to talk to is mpt, he'll be owning those in a few months
[14:08] <seele> ok
[14:08] <seele> documenting user research is very important, and that would be the place to put it
[14:08] <Keybuk> indeed
[14:08] <Keybuk> feel free to start work on them if it interests you :)
[14:09] <Keybuk> any contribution is valuable
[14:09] <seele> to document user groups and profiles for each of the experiences would help all related applications to those experiences
[14:09] <seele> ok, i just didnt want to start editing pages that dont belong to me
[14:09] <Keybuk> they're on the wiki precisely so anyone can edit them :-)
[14:09] <Keybuk> ok
[14:10] <Keybuk> pitti: thanks for chairing the meeting and giving out the report last week
[14:10] <pitti> you're welcome
[14:10] <pitti> btw, does http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html ever get updated automatically?
[14:10] <pitti> it looks pretty much the same like last week
[14:10] <tedg> seele: Also look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences/Current
[14:10] <Keybuk> and thanks for the extensive review of that URL
[14:10] <pitti> and e. g. I untagged 131976 last week
[14:10] <Keybuk> pedro_: do you know the answer to Martin's question?
[14:11] <seele> tedg: yes, i've read the ones that exist for hardy
[14:11] <Keybuk> they were certainly touched today
[14:11] <kwwii> pitti: you went through that many bugs?
[14:11] <pitti> it's not that many
[14:11] <pedro_> pitti: AFAIK it's, will talk with ogasawara about that
[14:12] <tedg> That's actually an interesting question, the out-of-diskspace thing, does the fact that it works on reboot close the bug?
[14:12] <Keybuk> mvo: there's a few on that list that seem to be yours
[14:12] <pitti> tedg: I'd say yes; thanks for testing
[14:12] <tedg> It would be nicer if GDM handled it, but I'd say at some level it's fixed.
[14:12] <mvo> Keybuk: yeah, I attacked some already, but there are still quite a few left
[14:12] <seb128> doh
[14:12] <mvo> Keybuk: espceially the compiz one with the screensaver is difficult, I was never able to reproduce it
[14:12] <Keybuk> mvo: I mean that aren't assigned to you
[14:12] <pitti> tedg: so the 1 MB /tmp tmpfs helped? it's not necessary to have free space on ~?
[14:12] <seb128> nobody pinged me?
[14:13] <mvo> Keybuk: oh, sorry
[14:13] <Keybuk> seb128: how odd, I thought you were here :)
[14:13] <seb128> sorry for being late I was working and not looking at the clock
[14:13] <kwwii> seb128: must not be important enough ;-)
[14:13] <Keybuk> mvo: just two, actually
[14:13] <seb128> mvo: speaking about what?
[14:13] <Keybuk> if we can't replicate the bugs, they should be marked Incomplete and de-tagged
[14:13] <tedg> pitti: No, it wasn't.  I was surprised also, I was expecting to have to do a minimal terminal login.
[14:13]  * mvo nods
[14:13] <Keybuk> especially if nobody in this team can replicate them
[14:15] <Keybuk> pitti & tedg: thanks for your work on gnome power manager so far
[14:15] <mvo> Keybuk: I think I didn't assign myself to all compiz bugs as I had kind of hoped that macslow would be able to help here
[14:15] <Keybuk> today is a *real* improvement for me
[14:15] <Keybuk> mvo: sometimes they just need a quick review, and unassign/untag
[14:15] <seb128> Keybuk: we got a new gpm uploaded?
[14:15] <mvo> ok, I will do that today
[14:15] <tedg> kwwii: I didn't follow up, are you cool with the screensaver stuff?
[14:16] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm using the one out of ted's archive I think
[14:16] <seb128> ah ok
[14:16] <Keybuk> (which will obviously need sponsoring)
[14:16] <Keybuk> and a UVF exception, I guess
[14:16] <seb128> I've that on my todo since the backlight changes on ac are one of the thing really annoying on hardy
[14:16]  * Keybuk tries to work out whether GNOME Power Manager comes under the GNOME UVF exception :p
[14:17] <seb128> well, I'm not sure we want to change to this event based logic now and without upstream agreeing
[14:17] <seb128> but that's really a meeting thing
[14:17] <seb128> tedg: I need to speak to you about that ;-)
[14:17] <Keybuk> ah, no, I'm actually using current hardy
[14:17] <tedg> seb128: Richard has commented on the list, and he seems relatively happy with it.
[14:17] <Keybuk> I was using ted's on the other laptop
[14:17] <seb128> tedg: ah ok, I'm not on the list
[14:17] <tedg> seb128: One change to get rid of the 5% buffer I put in.
[14:17] <Keybuk> so both seem good to me
[14:18] <kwwii> tedg: I haven't taken care of it yet, as I wanted to get the normal artwork in on time :-)
[14:18] <seb128> I try to get a reply from him on the bugzilla bug for some weeks
[14:18] <kwwii> tedg: I'll look into it and see what I can screw up on my own before annoying you with questions
[14:18] <tedg> seb128: It seems you can get one reply if you post a message to the mailing list ;)
[14:18] <seb128> maybe with some luck Keybuk will fix the udev dell bug too before beta *g* ;-)
[14:18] <Keybuk> there's a dell bug?
[14:19] <seb128> not dell, iwl3945
[14:19] <Keybuk> yeah, it will be
[14:19] <Keybuk> there's several degress of hackery to fix it
[14:19] <seb128> the 30 seconds delay on boot thing
[14:19] <Keybuk> sadly some of them break other devices
[14:20] <Keybuk> ok, any other business today?
[14:21] <seb128> Keybuk: do we know who is going to fosscamp? I still didn't book
[14:21] <Keybuk> anyone who would like to go, can go
[14:21] <seb128> I mean from upstream
[14:22] <Keybuk> err, let me check
[14:22] <Keybuk> UDSIntrepid/Sponsorships on s3cr3t wiki
[14:23] <Keybuk> should have Accepted next to them if they've replied
[14:23] <seele> you know.. the date of FOSSCamp isnt on the website
[14:23] <seb128> ok, will look to that and book quickly, I don't want to get claire unhappy ;-)
[14:23] <Keybuk> seele: yes it is ...
[14:23] <Keybuk> http://www.fosscamp.org/
[14:23] <Keybuk> Fri 16th / Sat 17th May 2008 - Corinthia Towers Hotel, Prague, Czech Republic
[14:24] <seele> oh the home page
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: anything we need/should discuss wrt. session startup speed?
[14:24] <seb128> pitti: FIXIT
[14:24] <seb128> pitti: I've talked to vuntz about it
[14:24]  * seele was looking at the other three pages
[14:24] <Keybuk> mdz spotted one
[14:25] <ogra_cmpc> throw out all applets and autostart progs
[14:25] <Keybuk> we start both gvfsd and gnome-vfs-daemon
[14:25] <seb128> the best we can do probably right now is to add a StartupDelay= to the autostart desktop
[14:25] <seb128> make gnome-session understand and apply the delay
[14:25] <seb128> remove deskbar
[14:25] <seb128> and disable tracker
[14:25] <Keybuk> what about the gnome-systems-tool evil?
[14:25] <seb128> mvo: how is nautilus-share going? ;-)
[14:25] <ogra_cmpc> couldnt the printer applet be started by hal ?
[14:26] <mvo> seb128: its fine, uploaded and ready - ftbfs because of glibc madness though
[14:26] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't get the issue there and garnacho (upstream) has no real idea of what is going on there
[14:26] <mvo> seb128: I will make the update-notifier change to run apt-check later today
[14:26] <seb128> need debugging by somebody getting the slowness
[14:26] <seb128> mvo: good
[14:26] <Keybuk> ok, I'll see what's happening there
[14:26] <seb128> anybody has an opinion about deskbar?
[14:26] <seb128> I think we should remove it
[14:26]  * Keybuk removed deskbar from his session quite a while ago
[14:26] <seb128> we will stop tracker by TB decision
[14:26] <kwwii> remove it
[14:27] <ogra_cmpc> ++
[14:27] <seb128> it doesn't understand firefox3 bookmarks
[14:27] <seb128> and I think it' taking login speed for no real win without those
[14:28] <pitti> seb128: deskbar seems to be quite broken ATM to me
[14:28] <seb128> Keybuk: gvfs and gnome-vfs is an issue of not having the world ported to gvfs yet, not easy to fix
[14:28] <pitti> I'd rather fix it, since it's cute, but people can still enable it if they want to
[14:28] <seb128> pitti: ok, let's remove it from the default profiles and fix the issues
[14:33] <Keybuk> ok, we seem to have reached a conclusion
[14:33] <Keybuk> thanks everyone
[14:34] <pitti> thanks all
[14:34] <seb128> thanks
[22:09] <ubuntu-geek> afternoon matthew
[22:09] <forumsmatthew> hey u-g
[22:09] <LaRoza> Hello everyone
[22:09] <ubuntu-geek> hey laroza
[22:09] <forumsmatthew> hi there
[22:09] <LaRoza> Hello, it is my first time, so be gentle :)
[22:09] <forumsmatthew> always
[22:10] <forumsmatthew> you aren't richbarna, are you? lol
[22:10] <ubuntu-geek> lol
[22:10] <LaRoza> How did you know? I lied, I accepted and reported myself :)
[22:11] <forumsmatthew> I think Mike is sick
[22:11] <forumsmatthew> is jdong available
[22:11] <ubuntu-geek> cool lets do this
[22:11] <forumsmatthew> all set
[22:12] <forumsmatthew> I'm pinging jdong to see if he is around
[22:12] <forumsmatthew> no response
[22:13] <LaRoza> Hope he's alright
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> he's probably just busy
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> MIT and all that
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> I bet he's doing something fun like building a flying robot for class
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> with laser eyes
[22:13] <ubuntu-geek> Cool well our agenda is pretty light
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> yeah
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> two forum requests is all I see
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> are
[22:14] <LaRoza> Speaking of which...
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> give it to us, girl!
[22:14] <LaRoza> I would like to have a Web Development Forum setup in the Development and Programming section
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> proposal
[22:14] <LaRoza> For those who think it isn't related to Ubuntu see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=723598
[22:15] <ubuntu-geek> We've discussed that in the past and declined it. But its worth reconsidering.
[22:15] <LaRoza> For server issues, or programming issues there are forums, but Web Development is more.
[22:15] <LaRoza> Even me, I use Windows for web development and that is my only use of Windows, so it is specific to the OS.
[22:16] <LaRoza> Some think it is art, server, programming, or other material. It would make sense to have a place for web related content. It is programming, art, and design, but there is a unique mix of elements
[22:16] <LaRoza> That make the OS being used important.
[22:17] <LaRoza> Development & Programming has several forums, one for generic Programming, so the specific field of web development would not be out of place, especially since there are many Ubuntu related issues and questions to be asked
[22:18]  * LaRoza looks for something
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> my only hesitation, and it isn't a big one, is the sheer number of forums we have, but as a subforum of Development & Programming, I might go for it
[22:18] <LaRoza> Here is a part of the community opinion: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=585863
[22:19] <forumsmatthew> I can see the specific use case, and it would likely get more use than some of our current forums
[22:19] <LaRoza> The Art and Design, Programming Talk, Cafe, General Help, and random other forums get posts that would be perfect for a Web Development forum
[22:19] <LaRoza> So many begin with "I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but..."
[22:20] <ubuntu-geek> Catching up reading..
[22:20] <LaRoza> Plus, I am a web developer and only happen to see such threads by accident. It is difficult for me to help with my favourite aspect of computer
[22:20] <forumsmatthew> I hate it when work interferes with my online life
[22:20] <forumsmatthew> :)
[22:21] <ubuntu-geek> my msg's arent working atm
[22:21] <LaRoza> ubuntu-geek: The above poll has a joined thread, that wasn't there before. So there is a gap in time and content
[22:21] <ubuntu-geek> i need to register with the nickserv :) weee
[22:21] <forumsmatthew> gotcha, u-g
[22:21] <LaRoza> maybe ug is nickbarna?
[22:21] <LaRoza> richbarna*
[22:22] <ubuntu-geek> shhh
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> lol
[22:22] <ubuntu-geek> well i dont remember my password
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> Hey, look at me! I'm trolling myself!!!
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> I think it is *******
[22:22] <LaRoza> Happens to us all ubuntu-geek
[22:22] <LaRoza> No, that is mine
[22:22] <ubuntu-geek> anyways, matthew yes i think what you is fine
[22:23] <forumsmatthew> Okay, via msg
[22:23] <ubuntu-geek> Yep
[22:24] <forumsmatthew> done
[22:25] <ubuntu-geek> I've always kind of thought the Programming Talk forum http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 was a good general forum for any type of development talk. We could make it more clear. I think one we implement tags/prefixes our somewhat limited forums will blosum with new options.
[22:26] <LaRoza> I did offer the solution as renaming Programming Talk to "Programming and Web Development"
[22:29] <ubuntu-geek> matthew thoughts?  My first thought would be to keep the name the same but revamp the description.
[22:30] <LaRoza> I think that would be slightly confusing. As most web developers don't consider themselves programmers.
[22:30] <LaRoza> They seem to be either attracted to Art and Design, or Programming Talk.
[22:31] <LaRoza> But writing CSS is neither "art" or "programming".
[22:33] <LaRoza> He has been kidnapped!
[22:34] <ubuntugeek> :) ok i had my nick wrong..
[22:34] <ubuntugeek> Sorry about that
[22:35] <ubuntugeek> Matthew?
[22:35] <ubuntugeek> welcome back
[22:35] <LaRoza> Everyone is leaving...
[22:35] <forumsmatthew_> thanks, what happened?
[22:36] <Technoviking> sorry
[22:36] <Technoviking> just woke up
[22:36] <ubuntugeek> No worries mike we started about 20 mins ago
[22:36] <ubuntugeek> You should go back to bed :)
[22:36] <LaRoza> Technoviking is mike?
[22:36] <forumsmatthew_> are you feeling okay, Mike
[22:36] <Technoviking> better
[22:37] <ubuntugeek> Glad to hear it.
[22:37] <ubuntugeek> We are having connection issues
[22:37] <LaRoza> They are...
[22:37] <Technoviking> sorry I missed the meeting
[22:37] <LaRoza> you just missed the Web Development subforum proposal
[22:37] <forumsmatthew_> aaagh, I can't stay logged in tonight
[22:38] <forumsmatthew_> sorry if you didn't get my PMs LaRoza
[22:38] <LaRoza> Use Opera...
[22:38] <forumsmatthew_> now I can't send them from this nick
[22:38] <forumsmatthew_> local ISP probably
[22:38] <forumsmatthew_> anyone remember how to kill a zombie login?
[22:39] <LaRoza> I did it once, but forget how.
[22:39] <forumsmatthew_> yeah, me too. Where's pricey?
[22:40] <Technoviking> forumsmatthew: you have to shoot the zombie login in the brain
[22:40] <forumsmatthew_> braiiins!!
[22:40] <forumsmatthew_> It's 10:40 p.m. here...
[22:40] <LaRoza> 1840 here
[22:40] <forumsmatthew_> did we finalize the proposal for the web development thing?
[22:40] <Technoviking> +1 for me on a web development forum
[22:41] <LaRoza> Yes, make it now
[22:41] <ubuntugeek> OK so.. on the web development forum. My suggestion is we modify the programming description and leave the name. when we upgrade to 3.7 we can implement prefixes which will help define the area
[22:41] <LaRoza> Would changing the name be too difficult?
[22:41] <forumsmatthew_> I commented on that, but I don't think anyone saw it...so, again, I agree. With the new tagging feature in 3.7 this will be easier
[22:42] <LaRoza> What is the "tagging" feature?
[22:42] <forumsmatthew_> you can add "tags" to posts, telling people what the main idea is, then the tags are searchable as well as indexed
[22:42] <forumsmatthew_> it should make stuff a lot easier to find
[22:42] <ubuntugeek> CSS, php, asp, etc etc
[22:42] <LaRoza> Like a title...
[22:43] <forumsmatthew_> only better
[22:43] <ubuntugeek> kubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu etc etc
[22:43] <LaRoza> Or is a predefined title/tag
[22:43] <forumsmatthew> finally, I'm me again
[22:43] <LaRoza> Prove it
[22:43] <Technoviking> sounds good to me ubuntugeek
[22:43] <LaRoza> About the tag thing, are they visible?
[22:44] <LaRoza> Like the [SOLVED] things?
[22:44] <ubuntugeek> Yes they are visable
[22:44] <ubuntugeek> They will be displayed by the thread topic someplace
[22:44] <forumsmatthew> I'll find the link for the vbulletin 3.7 new features for you to check out
[22:44] <LaRoza> Cool, that is a good feature
[22:45] <forumsmatthew> here it is, post #3 http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249460
[22:45] <ubuntugeek> Yep it'll help us merge and clean up some forums
[22:45] <ubuntugeek> and make it easier for users to find information
[22:45] <LaRoza> That is cool. Look forward to it
[22:45] <ubuntugeek> Good deal.
[22:45] <LaRoza> Are the tags predefined, or user set? Or both
[22:46] <ubuntugeek> predefined
[22:46] <ubuntugeek> We'll probably ask for input
[22:46] <LaRoza> Each forum would have their own?
[22:46] <LaRoza> Cut that out Matthew.
[22:47] <forumsmatthew> back again
[22:47] <ubuntugeek> Yes, some might not have them it depends
[22:47] <LaRoza> Cool
[22:47] <LaRoza> Can't wait.
[22:47] <ubuntugeek> Shall we discuss the second topic really quick? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=720483
[22:47] <forumsmatthew> yeah
[22:48] <ubuntugeek> I'm not really sure how this would fit in. It seems sorta general
[22:48] <LaRoza> I really don't think it is needed...IMO
[22:49] <forumsmatthew> I can see the benefit, but it is a small one, and I am against forum proliferation in general
[22:49] <LaRoza> Are there a lot of questions on the subject?
[22:49] <LaRoza> From what I followed, there isn't. (Not like Web Dev which has many such threads)
[22:50] <Technoviking> in 3.7 we could have a "Enterprise" tag
[22:50] <ubuntugeek> I haven't seen many.
[22:50] <forumsmatthew> no, but it could be argued that is because people don't know where to ask...although I would tend not to agree with that
[22:50] <LaRoza> No, they would ask
[22:50] <LaRoza> Just like those lost in Web Dev
[22:50] <forumsmatthew> enterprise tag: going where no tag has gone before
[22:50] <LaRoza> lol
[22:51] <forumsmatthew> I'm going to stick my neck out and say this was worth discussing, but I don't think it is something we need to do
[22:51] <ubuntugeek> Mike, thats a good idea I would be ok with that.
[22:51] <forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, Mike, I agree
[22:52] <LaRoza> I don't, just to be difficult
[22:52] <forumsmatthew> +1 on enterprise tag, -1 on new forum
[22:52] <LaRoza> (actually, I do)
[22:52] <ubuntugeek> But I think having a forum at this point wouldn't be beneficial the topic is pretty broad and the questions asked there would probably fit in another category.
[22:52] <ubuntugeek> +1 on tag, -1 forum
[22:53] <Technoviking> +1 on tag, -1 for new forum
[22:53] <forumsmatthew> cool, we all agree
[22:53] <ubuntugeek> Great!
[22:54] <forumsmatthew> Pink forums and purple ponies for April first?
[22:54] <ubuntugeek> You know it
[22:54] <ubuntugeek> And maybe something extra too
[22:55] <forumsmatthew> unicorns!! Please!?
[22:55] <LaRoza> Cthulhu, please?
[22:55] <ubuntugeek> hah
[22:55] <Technoviking> Cthulhu unicorns
[22:55] <forumsmatthew> with fairy wings
[22:55] <ubuntugeek> Well guys I hate to wrap this up when the fun is just starting but my wife isnt feeling so well and needs me. Does anyone have anything else  to discuss?
[22:56] <LaRoza> None for me
[22:56] <forumsmatthew> I propose that ubuntugeek leave and take care of his wife
[22:56] <Technoviking> http://sunfox.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/ubuntu-hello-cthulhu.png
[22:56] <forumsmatthew> and I will go get some sleep
[22:56] <ubuntugeek> Talk to you all later..
[22:56] <LaRoza> I will go back on UF...
[22:56] <LaRoza> See you.
[22:56] <forumsmatthew> Technoviking, that is hysterical!
[22:56] <Technoviking> and I will chase the nyquil dragon
[22:56] <LaRoza> Did anyone actually succeed in seeing this whole room from start to finish besides me?
[22:57] <forumsmatthew> not here. could you give me a log?
[22:57] <Technoviking> nite
[22:57] <LaRoza> How?
[22:57] <LaRoza> Besides copying and pasting...
[22:58] <forumsmatthew> copy/paste in the staff forum or via pm, I'll clean it up for official posting
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> see you guys later
[22:59] <LaRoza> Done, except for this sentence.
[22:59] <LaRoza> See you
[22:59] <forumsmatthew> goodnight, all!
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> Mike feel better
[22:59] <forumsmatthew> and thank you!
[22:59] <forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, +1
[22:59] <LaRoza> All of you get good clients and stay connected!


[17:48] <fannagoganna> Hi, getting an error when I am using gunicorn to start a flask webapp, it looks like my user environment is not getting properly imported, Traceback (most recent call last):
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 473, in spawn_worker
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     worker.init_process()
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/workers/base.py", line 100, in init_process
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     self.wsgi = self.app.wsgi()
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 115, in wsgi
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     self.callable = self.load()
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/app/wsgiapp.py", line 33, in load
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     return util.import_app(self.app_uri)
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/util.py", line 362, in import_app
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     __import__(module)
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/mnt/software/sources/tanim_flask_app/app/__init__.py", line 54, in <module>
[17:48] <fannagoganna>     from app import models, views, views_google, views_mendeley
[17:48] <fannagoganna>   File "/mnt/software/sources/tanim_flask_app/app/views_mendeley.py", line 9, in <module>
[17:49] <fannagoganna> Sorry for the spam, let me try again
[17:49] <fannagoganna> Traceback (most recent call last):
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 473, in spawn_worker
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     worker.init_process()
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/workers/base.py", line 100, in init_process
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     self.wsgi = self.app.wsgi()
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 115, in wsgi
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     self.callable = self.load()
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/app/wsgiapp.py", line 33, in load
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     return util.import_app(self.app_uri)
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gunicorn/util.py", line 362, in import_app
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     __import__(module)
[17:49] <fannagoganna>   File "/mnt/software/sources/tanim_flask_app/app/__init__.py", line 54, in <module>
[17:49] <fannagoganna>     from app import models, views, views_google, views_mendeley
[17:49] <fannagoganna> Hi, getting an error when I am using gunicorn to start a flask webapp, it looks like my user environment is not getting properly imported, Traceback (most recent call last):
[17:50] <fannagoganna> here is the link, http://pastebin.ca/3177390
[17:55] <fannagoganna> I found a workaround on my Linux Mint 17.2 box, by running "sudo apt-get install python-requests-oauthlib," although I don't know why gunicorn launched with upstart could not see my user installed python packages.


[14:07] <BUGabundo1> {"remaining_hits":0,"hourly_limit":100,"reset_time":"Tue Apr 14 13:10:34 +0000 2009","reset_time_in_seconds":1239714634}
[14:07] <gnomefreak> at install helps :)
[14:08] <BUGabundo1> hum ?
[14:08] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo1: had to install curl i was using apt-get curl :(
[14:08] <gnomefreak> i get same output
[14:12] <gnomefreak>  i get this feeling im forgetting something
[14:14] <asac> hjmf: cu
[14:18] <gnomefreak> oh crap
[14:18] <gnomefreak> im using 0.8
[14:19] <asac> heh
[14:19] <asac> thats a solid release
[14:19] <gnomefreak> forgot to enable the gwibber repos solid but still twitter is broken ;)
[14:20] <gnomefreak> ok updating to daily now. I will screw with it more when i get home this afternoon. I still have to figure out where i went wrong in SM
[14:21] <asac> gnomefreak: use the gwibber team ppa
[14:21] <gnomefreak> i am
[14:21] <gnomefreak> i think
[14:21] <asac> well that has 0.9.2
[14:21] <asac> and not 0.8
[14:22] <gnomefreak> nope daily im using i dont have team repos i dont think
[14:23] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo1: what version do you have installed
[14:24] <gnomefreak> from your april 12th comment you are not current
[14:24] <gnomefreak> 1.0.2~bzr294-0ubuntu1~daily1 is up to date daily
[14:24] <gnomefreak> dch -r
[14:24] <gnomefreak> damnit
[14:27] <gnomefreak> ok im gone i have to leave in a gfew minutes and havent started to get ready yet
[14:28] <BUGabundo1> gnomefreak: 1.0.2~bzr294-0ubuntu1~daily1
[14:29] <fta2> asac, saw your merge request, good i didn't push that 0.9.2 to universe ;)
[14:33] <asac> fta2: hehe ;)
[14:33] <asac> i dont think we want to bump for jaunty
[14:34] <asac> thats karmic. gwibber folks were just too late
[14:42] <fta2> asac, hmm, does twitter work in jaunty? (0.8.*)
[14:42] <BUGabundo1> fta define work!
[14:43] <fta2> donno, i'm not using twitter at all but people seem too be complaining about broken twibber with gwibber from universe
[14:43] <fta2> -too+to
[14:44] <BUGabundo1> daily ppa is working me, other then the 400 errors due to throtelling
[14:44] <BUGabundo1> some users are getting caught on GKD, but I didn't, don't know why
[15:06] <jcastro> fta2: twitter changed something, there is a patch in trunk that fixes it
[15:22] <asac> not sure what is supposed to be broken, but 0.9.2 works here with twitter
[15:22] <asac> and 0.8 as well iirc
[15:22] <asac> let me downgrade again
[15:33] <BUGabundo1> can I just copy my urlclassifier3.sqlite from one profile to the other?
[15:33] <BUGabundo1> I created a new 3.6 profile, but miss my 3.5 history
[15:48] <asac> BUGabundo1: given that the new profile is new and risk of losing things is low, just copy it
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> okay
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> will do, when I close both
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> anything else? places.sqlite, maybe?
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> I used xmarks (ex-foxmarks) to import bookmarks and pass
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> but history didn't came
[15:50] <asac> BUGabundo1: places.sqlite
[15:50] <asac> yes
[15:50] <asac> thats where the bookmarks and history are
[15:51] <BUGabundo1> isn't it urlclass?
[16:49] <asac> BUGabundo1: is there a bug for twitter/gwibber open?
[16:51] <BUGabundo1> which one?
[16:51] <BUGabundo1> there are so many
[16:53] <asac> BUGabundo1: nevermind
[16:53] <asac> ;)
[16:54] <BUGabundo1> asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/360468 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/359885
[16:54] <BUGabundo1> this are the most active right now
[17:09] <BUGabundo1> asac: what is "martion source" ?
[17:11] <asac> martian?
[17:11] <BUGabundo1> yes
[17:11] <BUGabundo1> typo
[17:11] <BUGabundo1> on #ubuntu+1
[17:11] <BUGabundo1> user is getting that on the syslogs
[17:12] <asac> BUGabundo1: if you say something comes from martian source it means (afaik) that something happens magically without knowing the source
[17:12] <BUGabundo1> ahh
[17:12] <asac> BUGabundo1: for PCI events?
[17:12] <BUGabundo1> NM I think
[17:12] <asac> BUGabundo1: please paste syslog. cannot find it on the other channel that quick
[17:12] <BUGabundo1> he rebooted to 8.10 to check
[17:13] <asac> only place i think to remember that message was interrupts
[17:13] <asac> martian means that there are interrupts the kernel cannot associate with anything (e.g. buggy bios)
[17:14] <BUGabundo1> asac: read "hwm" comments on +1
[17:15] <asac> yeah
[17:15] <BUGabundo1>  hmw: how can i share a internet connection (hsdpa) with other pcs on my lan? my usually working script (route, forwarding, iptables, dhcpd) wont work with ubuntu. Syslog reports "martian source". This is my "router" script: http://pastebin.com/f22c41762
[17:15] <asac> unlikely to be martian source
[17:15] <asac> anyway. that script looks not-compatible with anything NM wants
[17:15] <asac> nm automatically sets up the iptables rules
[17:15] <asac> so better not do anything manually
[17:16] <BUGabundo1> can't wait to see if nm0.8 has an easy way to share wireless networks via other connections
[17:16] <BUGabundo1> and not default to wired as 0.7 does
[17:16] <BUGabundo1> "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/log_martians          # Log packets with impossible addresses"
[17:21] <asac> BUGabundo1: heh right
[17:21] <asac> thats a firewall rule
[17:22] <asac> yeah. i would think its his router script
[17:22] <asac> he should dump that in the river
[17:22] <asac> or not use NM
[17:30] <BUGabundo1> ehh
[17:37] <bdmurray> asac: Is there any chance of getting bug 359382 fixed?
[17:49] <armin76> sigh...
[18:03] <asac> bdmurray: kind of late
[18:04] <asac> bdmurray: let me check
[18:04] <bdmurray> asac: so maybe talking to somone about a redirect is best?
[18:05] <asac> bdmurray: redirect would also cure all the old releases
[18:05] <asac> so i think its a good idea to do that in anycase
[18:09] <fta2> asac, is it still possible to send fixes to universe? i introduced a regression in ia32-libs :( bug 360870
[18:10] <asac> fta2: keep the change minimal, attach planned debdiff and subscribe motu-release to get an ack
[18:11] <asac> fta2: also set bug to in progress, assign to you and bump importance to something != undecided ;)
[18:12] <fta2> k
[18:35] <BUGabundo1> fta isn't 3.5 be in universe??
[18:37] <asac> BUGabundo1: it is
[18:37] <BUGabundo1>         500 ftp://archive.ubuntu.com jaunty/universe Packages
[18:37] <BUGabundo1> there it is
[18:37] <BUGabundo1> the other day I didn't find it :(
[18:43] <BUGabundo1> fta just got a bunch of new user for 3.5 on +1 eheh
[18:43] <BUGabundo1> I still wonder where you got those stats of users for ff and chrome
[18:45] <asac> BUGabundo1: popcon
[18:45] <asac> popcon.ubuntu.com
[18:47] <asac> fta2: fyi: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.1.jaunty + https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.1.jaunty
[18:52] <BUGabundo1> ahh
[18:54] <hjmf> I'm back
 hjmf: can you also port the patch for the other branches we have?
[18:54] <hjmf> asac: I'm going to do it right now.
[18:54] <hjmf> If I do remember right first I have to branch those branches
[18:54] <hjmf> merge
[18:54] <hjmf> change things
[18:55] <hjmf> commit
[18:55] <hjmf> and finally push?
[18:55] <hjmf> ? right
[18:56] <asac> hjmf: 1. pull branch; 2. change and edit changelog; 3. debcommit; bzr push lp:~USERID/project/lpBUGID
[18:56] <hjmf> hmmm, things changed a bit...
[18:56] <asac> then you request a merge by going to that branch on LP and clicking "request merge"
[18:56] <asac> hjmf: hehe. yeah. debcommit is quite nice ;)
[18:57] <hjmf> any manual? never mind I'll search for it :-)
[18:57] <asac> hjmf: its just debcommit
[18:57] <hjmf> OK
[18:57] <asac> hjmf: or debcommit -e if you want to edit the suggested commit msg
[18:58] <asac> hjmf: if you commit it in two steps (e.g. first, just change the pluginreg.dat fix) and second: cleanup), we can cherry pick the change to the stable branches
[18:58] <asac> (only relevant for firefox-3.0.head and maybe firefox-3.1.head)
[18:59] <hjmf> no problem, I'll do in two steps
[18:59] <asac> hjmf: look in changelog how to give you credits in an existing changelog
[18:59] <asac> if you dont know ;)
[18:59] <asac> like [ ... ]
[19:00] <hjmf> Maybe that's the only thing that seems to be as I remember
[19:00] <asac> :-P
[19:01] <hjmf> :-)
[19:05] <asac> fta2: didnt you say you had daily bzr branches somewhere?
[19:06] <asac> e.g. so one can just branch and work on build failures
[19:06] <asac> getting right orig and stuff from ppa
[19:06] <asac> ah cool. found them
[19:08] <asac> fta2: hmm. maybe we can keep only one commit on top of what we have in .head on that branch?
[19:08] <asac> that would make it easy to just pull that, fix it and push to .head
[19:08] <asac> without getting many commits
[19:10]  * hjmf is off for a while
[19:28] <BUGabundo1> fta or asac when will 3.6 be renamed Namoroka ?
[19:29] <asac> as soon as there is a branch for it upstream
[19:31] <BUGabundo1> ok
[19:31] <BUGabundo1> nice to know
[19:35] <fta> BUGabundo1, it's unlikely to happen before 3.5 final gets released. minefield means trunk and will always means trunk
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> ok
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> so its not like debian sid
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> or jaunty
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> stupid question: why not just call it TRUNK?
[19:40] <asac> sounds too harmless
[19:40] <asac> minefield describes it best ;)
[19:40] <BUGabundo1> eheh
[19:40] <BUGabundo1> time to go
[19:43] <fta> asac, what about gwibber & rev50?
[19:43] <fta> lack of context
[19:44] <asac> fta: cutting a stable branch for jaunty
[19:44] <asac> fta: kenvadine backported two patches ... he landed them now on top of revision 50
[19:45] <asac> so we can get it in (either directly or as SRU)
[19:45] <asac> fta: he will probably request a merge soon. i wanted to poke it a bit more
[19:45] <asac_the_bumber> !info sqlite jaunty
[19:45] <asac_the_bumber> !info sqlite3 jaunty
[19:45] <asac_the_bumber> !info sqlite3 koala
[19:45] <asac> fta: will you create that "stable maintenance" branch ?
[19:45] <asac> (so he has a merge target)
[19:45] <asac_the_bumber> bah
[19:45] <asac> like gwibber.jaunty
[19:46] <asac_the_bumber> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux sparc64; en-US; rv:1.9.2a1pre) Gecko/20090414 Gentoo Firefox/3.6a1pre
[19:46] <asac> asac_the_bumber: jackalope is also not a known branch  ;)
[19:46] <asac> asac_the_bumber: it will be "karmic"
[19:46] <asac_the_bumber> asac: update sqlite to 3.6.13!
[19:46] <asac> fta: so similar to what i did to all mozillateam branches (all i remembered ;))
[19:47] <asac> all main branches
[19:47] <asac> asac_the_bumber: not for jaunty
[19:47] <asac_the_bumber> why not?
[19:47] <asac> 3.6.10 is rocking the boat here ;)
[19:47] <asac> asac_the_bumber: we are in deep freeze
[19:47] <asac_the_bumber> that version has unaligned acceses
[19:47] <asac> alto, alto ;)
[19:48] <asac_the_bumber> bumb quick
[19:48] <asac> asac_the_bumber: hppa doesnt justify a deep freeze breach combinined with new upstream exception ;)
[19:48] <asac_the_bumber> its not hppa :P
[19:48] <asac> even sparc and hppa combined ;)
[19:48] <asac> asac_the_bumber: does it fix arm?
[19:48] <asac> thats the only supported arch ;)
[19:48] <asac> (but first we need a crash report i guess ;))
[19:48] <asac_the_bumber> hah
[19:49] <asac_the_bumber> well, i'm just trying now with 3.6.13, which should be fixed
[19:50] <asac> asac_the_bumber: so is sqlite also compiled with no-align-error?
[19:50] <asac_the_bumber> i'll find out if there's something that needs to be done on trunk
[19:51] <asac_the_bumber> asac: i have no clue
[20:12] <fta> asac, if you do a new 3.0, please remember the build-system...
[20:13] <asac> fta: yeah. i hope i have time to get that in this round :(
[20:13] <asac> i have a huge backport backlog :(
[20:14] <fta> it's in ff3.head already, just cherry pick it
[20:14] <asac> but i saw the build failure
[20:15] <asac> fta: its not a single commit, but more spread over like 6 commits
[20:15] <asac> revno: 285
[20:15] <asac> revno: 286
[20:15] <asac> revno: 323
[20:15] <asac> revno: 325
[20:15] <asac> revno: 326
[20:15] <asac> think thats all
[20:15] <asac> lets check ;)
[20:16] <fta> really? i don't remember
[20:16] <asac> ;)
[20:18] <asac> i will see how far i get ;)
[20:22] <asac> fta: you want to be subscribed to the jaunty 1.9.1 and 3.1 branches?
[20:22] <asac> should be pretty low traffic ;)
[20:22] <asac> (otherwise we are doing something wrong)
[20:45] <fta> do you mean for bugs? or commits?
[20:46] <asac> fta: commits
[20:46] <fta> ok for commits
[20:47] <asac> done
[22:36] <hjmf> asac: are you around
[22:36] <hjmf> asac: ?
[22:36] <hjmf> asac: how can I check which is the current version of a package
[22:37] <hjmf> I'm going to edit the changelog to reflect the changes made in the apport hook
[22:37] <hjmf> asac: I mean: firefox-3.0 (3.0.8+nobinonly-0ubuntu4) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
[22:42] <hjmf> for example, in the ppa repos the last build of firefox-3.1 is the version 3.5~b4~hg20090414r24561+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1
[22:44] <hjmf> ... and for jaunty the last one for firefox-3.0 is 3.0.8+nobinonly-0ubuntu3...
[22:45] <hjmf> it is just that I want to be sure to put the right number.
[22:46] <hjmf> asac: I'll do the debcommit && push when I get this thing clear :)
[23:44] <asac> hjmf: so we work on .head branches only
[23:45] <asac> hjmf: we bump changelog version either when we release or when the patches need to be adjusted
[23:45] <asac> so for stable products like firefox-3.0 we only commit stuff for new releases usually
[23:45] <hjmf> asac: so...
[23:45] <hjmf> asac: I've left the version number intact in the 3.0 changelog
[23:46] <asac> hjmf: right. if on .head branch is UNRELEASED you dont need to change that
[23:46] <hjmf> good
[23:46] <asac> just add the new changelog entries and done
[23:46] <hjmf> asac:  I've just send the merge proposals for 3.0.head
[23:47] <hjmf> one for the bug and another for the little refactoring
[23:47] <asac> hjmf: ok so you named the branch thje same as the .head branch. its better to name it like the topic
[23:47] <asac> e.g. lpXXXX_apport_hooko improvements
[23:47] <asac> otherwise you need to delete your branch for the next contribution and so on
[23:48] <asac> not a problem. just ahint for best practices
[23:48] <hjmf> asac: I see
[23:48] <hjmf> I'm trying to learn :)
[23:49] <hjmf> so this will be better: bzr push lp:~hmontoliu/firefox/firefox-3.1.apport_hook
[23:49] <asac> hjmf: so when you submit a single branch you only need a single merge request. e.g. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hmontoliu/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/+merge/5545 now has both commits so the other wasnt necessary
[23:49] <asac> hjmf: yeah. except that without lp bug id you can only create one branch for apport_hoook ;)
[23:50] <asac> hjmf: oh the other was ment to be ffox 3.1
[23:51] <hjmf> asac:  ?
[23:51] <asac> hjmf: you submitted the wrong branch ;) (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hmontoliu/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/+merge/5543 -> you requested to merge 3.0.head into that)
[23:51] <hjmf> I need a manual :-(
[23:52] <asac> hjmf: so https://code.launchpad.net/~hmontoliu/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/+merge/5545 is good
[23:52] <hjmf> something beter than this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0809/MozillaTeam :-P
[23:52] <asac> hjmf: you did your change on top of 3.0.head
[23:52] <asac> and submitted that as a merge request
[23:52] <asac> thats good
[23:52] <hjmf> yes, I thought so
[23:53] <hjmf> in both cases,
[23:53] <asac> however, the other merge request: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hmontoliu/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/+merge/5543
[23:53] <asac> you changed on top of firefox-3.0.head and asked to merge that branch into our firefox-3.1.head
[23:53] <asac> the right way would have been to do the change on top of firefox-3.1.head and ask that to be merged into firefox-3.1.head
[23:53] <asac> makes sense?
[23:54] <asac> hjmf: ok merged the 5545 merge request
[23:54] <asac> err approved ;)
[23:54] <hjmf> hmm makes sense  I select the default "Merge into:  	 lp:firefox" but in the second proposal I noticed that it was pointing to 3.1 so I changed to 3.0
[23:55] <hjmf> I thought it was a mistake in the second proposal
[23:55] <hjmf> but the wrong one was the first
[23:55] <asac> hjmf: yeah
[23:55] <hjmf> asac: I see...
[23:55] <asac> hjmf: i think we have 3.1 as current development focus for the firefox project
[23:55] <asac> so thats probably suggested by default
[23:56] <hjmf> thanks to point that
[23:56] <hjmf> asac: back to the version number, in the changelogs of 3.1 where can I check for the current version
[23:57] <hjmf> in the ppa repo?
[23:57] <asac> hjmf: look how the changelog loks now in mozillateam .head branch
[23:57] <asac> hjmf: thats how i ment it ;)
[23:58] <asac> Committed revision 394.
[23:58] <asac> hjmf: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.head/revision/394/debian/changelog
[23:59] <asac> hjmf: the current version is whatever is currently on top with UNRELEASED
[23:59] <asac> (re 3.1)