[01:56] <guiverc> completed read thru Bashing-om , I didn't like "detailed with much detail" that I didn't like saturday.. but I'm blank on fix anyway & petty.
[01:57] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah - looks odd --- lemme have a try :)
[02:04] <Bashing-om> guiverc: How about short,sweet, and to the point as: "many details are provided" ?
[02:05] <guiverc> yep... works for me :)
[02:08] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: What does the future of AI hold in store? @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/future-of-ai-2023
[02:08] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om , looks good
[02:11] <Bashing-om> \o/
[15:32] <krytarik> Bashing-om, guiverc: I think prefixing "Weekly status #306" with "LXD" in the meeting reports section would be a good idea.. >_<
[20:16] <Bashing-om> uwn: Pulling "WIP" and making the one edit for - #306" with "LXD" - will start the push soonest.
[20:37] <Bashing-om> UWN: M/L is away - Doing the Forums posting next.
[20:49] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forums post done; Doing the Re-direxts next.
[20:55] <Bashing-om> UWN: Re-directs done - doing the Discourse post next.
[21:07] <Bashing-om> UWN: Discourse post done - Next up is a Mastodon Blog :D
[22:20] <Bashing-om> UWN: Blogged Mastodon - pending now is release to the other Social Media.
[22:48] <guiverc> yeah sorry.. was completing my askubu peruse... will go get a drink & start uwn
[22:48]  * guiverc had forgotten it was tuesday morn on sitting here post-feed
[22:56] <Bashing-om> guiverc: :D Awaiting your go to continue.
[22:58]  * guiverc checking fridge post now.. didn't close shutters on this room last night so terrible glare... haven't yet shut them so trying to squint & read...
[22:59] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Moar Coffee !
[22:59] <guiverc> fixing link to testing.netplan
[22:59] <guiverc> other articles of interest maybe too
[23:00]  * guiverc was forced up out of chair to shut shutters...
[23:02]  * Bashing-om up from the keyboard to make moar coffee :P
[23:04] <guiverc> I'll just remove link to "Other Articles of Interest" ... I don't see anything except the 'heading' on wiki page within "In this issue"
[23:04] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Did I screw something up ?
[23:05] <guiverc> we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue796#Other_Articles_of_Interest   but I don't see what it pointed to on wiki
[23:06] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Looking ^ :(
[23:07] <guiverc> maybe a heading without anything underneath it?   of no consequence anyway; script just generated a link which went nowhere  (you'll see itat top of wiki in the "In this Issue" only
[23:07] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/07/17/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-796/
[23:08] <guiverc> if you find reason for it being there, please let me know as I removed that line from fridge  (as I couldn't find reason/link correct link for it)
[23:08] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Uh Huh - on the bad link - I be making adjustments.
[23:10] <guiverc> tweeted uwn 796
[23:11]  * guiverc says AAARGH... mewe has changed...
[23:14] <guiverc> posted uwn to telegram, (reddit, mewe)
[23:15]  * guiverc still without working mobile phone (thus happier too!) so no fb.
[23:17] <Bashing-om> Fridge: Spot check and all workie.
[23:17] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om
[23:18] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Clear now to wipe our evidence - and move on?
[23:18] <guiverc> yep. scrub away thank you Bashing-om
[23:18] <Bashing-om> doing ^
[23:25] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om (removal of line on wiki - other articles of interest)
[23:35] <Bashing-om> guiverc: No idea what transpired that there was that "other articles of interest" straggleing // We got over it :D
[23:36] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do issue797 - off and running :D
[23:37] <guiverc> I doubt people reading wiki would notice.. on fridge my checks catch it & as in this case where I can't find reason for it being there. I remove it.. no big deal
[23:44] <Bashing-om> I be away for a spell - outside chore to attend to.


[00:04] <Roo79x> hi all is there a way to have single instance in mousepad?
[00:12] <xubuntu32w> Hi. I'm doing an upgrade from 14.04 to 14.10 in xubuntu and it's asking me if I want to 'replace the customized configuration file '/etc/mime.types'? With choosing either "keep" or "replace." I'm not sure what to do.
[00:13] <xubuntu32w> I feel like I should choose "keep" but I've Googled around and a few people have chosen "replace" instead.
[00:14] <xubuntu32w> I'm a total newbie and don't want to wreck things by choosing the wrong thing. Thanks.
[00:16] <xubuntu32w> anybody?
[00:16] <knome> xubuntu32w, have you change a lot of mime type associations?
[00:17] <knome> either option will work and not "wreck" anything
[00:17] <xubuntu32w> I'm sure I've changed things but I don't even know what mime means. The "details" show like 20-30 "differences."
[00:17] <knome> mime types mean the default applications associated to each file type
[00:18] <xubuntu32w> okay. So since there are quite a few "differences" would it be wise to choose "keep"?
[00:18] <knome> probably
[00:19] <xubuntu32w> Okay. Thanks very much, knome. I really appreciate it.
[00:19] <knome> you're welcome, and enjoy
[01:12] <mijk> hi, I can't seem to write to the debugfs folder
[01:13] <mijk> even using sudio -s
[01:13] <mijk> or sudo -9
[01:13] <mijk> sudo -i
[01:14] <mijk> I'm trying to set up vgaswitcheroo
[01:36] <roo79x> hello everyone how are you? I would like to know if there is a way to get mousepad to run in single instance mode? so if mousepad is open and I open another file mousepad opens the second file in a new tad instead of a new window. Thanks
[01:58] <roo79x> hello everyone how are you? I would like to know if there is a way to get mousepad to run in single instance mode? so if mousepad is open and I open another file mousepad opens the second file in a new tad instead of a new window. Thanks
[03:08] <squeegily> Hey.. fun question, but: how can I get hardware acceleration working in VLC with Intel GMA500?
[03:08] <squeegily> I want to watch my anime (720p H.264 MKVs) on this laptop (an Acer Aspire One, AO751h)
[03:09] <squeegily> I already tried enabling VA-API in settings
[03:10] <squeegily> Yes I know I should be using actually supported hardware but I got this from a friend for free
[03:10] <squeegily> It's running Xubunntu 14.04
[03:11] <holstein> squeegily: it doesnt matter why you want it, you just need to check the 3d driver support for linux, and, if you have 3d support, you have 3d
[03:12] <squeegily> There is no 3D support
[03:12] <squeegily> I just need 2D support for H.264 decoding
[03:12] <holstein> squeegily: then, you wont get what you are seeking
[03:12] <squeegily> According to the Arch Wiki, this card has excellent 2D support for HD H.264 video decoding
[03:12] <holstein> squeegily: you should be able to play the file, and, you will be getting 2d support
[03:12] <holstein> squeegily: sure.., try jut playing the content
[03:13] <squeegily> I tried that. It can't keep up
[03:13] <holstein> squeegily: 2d means, you *wont* get 3d support
[03:13] <squeegily> I don't care about 3D support
[03:13] <holstein> squeegily: right.. its a lot for that device to handle
[03:13] <squeegily> I don't have any games, even Minecraft
[03:14] <squeegily> There is literally nothing on here that needs 3D support, and I never mentioned that I need 3D support. I just need to figure out why this 2D 720p H.264 video can't be decoded in read-time.
[03:14] <holstein> squeegily: sure, but what you are asking about is similar, requiring driver support... intel typically supports linux well, and then are welcome to provide you a 3d driver
[03:14] <roo79x> hello everyone how are you? I would like to know if there is a way to  get mousepad to run in single instance mode? so if mousepad is open and I  open another file mousepad opens the second file in a new tad instead  of a new window. Thanks
[03:14] <holstein> squeegily: you meantion you want hardware acceleration
[03:14] <squeegily> holstein: Why do you bring up 3D at all
[03:14] <holstein> squeegily: that will require the driver
[03:14] <holstein> squeegily: if you dont have the driver support, you dont get hardware acceleration, hence, why  you are asking about 2d support.. which, you have, but, its laggy, as i would expect
[03:15] <squeegily> Is there any way to play 720p video on this?
[03:15] <holstein> squeegily: nothing about xubuntu/ubuntu/linux is prventing that
[03:16] <holstein> squeegily: if you dont have "good" driver support, the answer may be no.. or, not up to your quality expectation
[03:16] <squeegily> I came here for troubleshooting help..  What I need is H.264 decoding
[03:18] <holstein> squeegily: there is *nothing* xubuntu is doing to prevent intel from faciliating you playing that content, and having a nice driver.. and, they usually do
[03:18] <squeegily> This is the bag of fun that is the gma500 though
[03:18] <holstein> squeegily: you have h.254 decoding.. what you want is "better" performance
[03:18] <holstein> squeegily: i had one of those chips, and i passed it on ASAP..
[03:18] <squeegily> What I want is to be 100% sure the GPU is doing it
[03:19] <squeegily> Because I'm pretty sure that if this chip can play 1080p video, like the Arch Wiki says, it should definitely by able to do this
[03:19] <squeegily> So I'm suspecting no GPU support
[03:19] <holstein> squeegily: did you run a supported operating system on the hardware? you should be able to look at the intel site, and see what drivers they provide, likely for windows, and try the content in windows with the driver that intel promises supports the hardware
[03:20] <holstein> squeegily: no doubt, that content *will* play on something like a raspberry pi.. but the driver support is there for linux
[03:20] <squeegily> This chip was abandoned by intel
[03:20] <squeegily> Leaving it in the domain of the OS maintainers as far as I can tell
[03:21] <holstein> squeegily: they promised support for it for windows, and released a driver for it
[03:21] <holstein> squeegily: sure, but its not something that linux is allowed to address..
[03:21] <squeegily> What isn't something that Linux is allowed to address?
[03:22] <holstein> squeegily: driver support for that hardware.. *all* of linux is completely open, if intel wanted to provide support for it, and address the issue you are having they can
[03:22] <holstein> linux is not preventing that.. or breaking it.. but, there can be little linux can do to address, or faciliate support.. you just cant force things to work like that
[03:23] <holstein> though, i realize, since i actually had that chip, and abandonded it myself, i realize that it can be frustrating
[03:23] <squeegily> I'll try VLC on Windows with this then
[03:23] <squeegily> If it doesn't play there, I'll just chalk it up to not-enough-powar
[03:23] <holstein> that would likely work as promised
[03:24] <holstein> well, as i stated above, we *know* its enough power.. phones, and low powered arm tablets play that content... the pi i mentioned
[03:24] <holstein> the deal is and was for me, when i had that chip, the driver support
[03:25] <holstein> i mean, linux is capable of playing that content, devices with lower specs than that are capable of playing that content, and that device is well known to have been not well supported in linux by intel..
[03:26] <squeegily> So if it plays on Windows, but not on Linux.. who should I go to
[03:26] <squeegily> I'm about to reboot
[03:26] <squeegily> If it doesn't work on Windows, I'll give up
[03:26] <holstein> squeegily: ideally, you would be able to ask intel for a driver that would faciltate the same performance in linux as in windows.. they didnt promise that, though
[03:26] <squeegily> If it DOES work on Windows, which channel should I complain to
[03:26] <squeegily> so to speak
[03:27] <holstein> squeegily: you can ask intel, or the creators of the hardware.. but, there is nothing "broken" to complain about
[03:27] <squeegily> Fine then. What's the term for video not playing.
[03:27] <holstein> squeegily: they never promised "wipe windows and run whatever OS you choose and enjoy complete support of all the hardware to its fullest capacity", you know?
[03:27] <squeegily> Yes
[03:27] <squeegily> That's what IRC and other support channels are for
[03:28] <squeegily> To help approach full capacity
[03:28] <holstein> sure.. but we cant make tyhem give you a driver ;)
[03:28] <holstein> squeegily: we try, believe me.. we ask.. the upstream linux community asks..
[03:29] <squeegily> I'm not asking for a driver from Intel. They're a faceless corporation who doesn't give two farts about Linux
[03:29] <holstein> squeegily: they actually factually support much of the hardware they create in linux
[03:29] <squeegily> What I am saying is that if it doesn't work on Linux
[03:29] <squeegily> I need to go to the Linux-specific support channels
[03:29] <holstein> squeegily: linux is 100% open.. *any* one can support it
[03:30] <squeegily> Your point?
[03:30] <holstein> squeegily: intel can support it.. you can.. i can.. any one making hardware can support it.. if they dont, and didnt promise to, they may not, and some, like the chip i had, and you still have, can "fall through the cracks"
[03:31] <squeegily> I am saying that I wanted to use this laptop for playing the videos. I cannot play the videos on Xubuntu. So I came to the Xubuntu support channel.
[03:31] <squeegily> Don't waste time blaming Intel; they're useless. What I need is help with this OS
[03:31] <squeegily> This OS on this chip
[03:31] <holstein> squeegily: sure, and you *can* play some videos.. but, without proper driver support, you will likely not be happy with the performance
[03:31] <holstein> squeegily: this OS is not preventing anything from playing there
[03:31] <squeegily> So long story short: Intel doesn't support Linux, so oh well
[03:32] <holstein> intel actually does.. and supports linux on most chips..
[03:32] <squeegily> holstein: but not on this one and who cares about the others
[03:32] <holstein> squeegily: i do, and it is just a fact, is all
[03:32] <holstein> i know it can be frustrating.. it was for me with that chip..
[03:33] <squeegily> Yes, and I'm coming here to get solutions, not to hear about how intel doesn't support it
[03:33] <holstein> cool.. enjoy your time here, and try #ubuntu since this is a larger driver issue not relating to xubuntu or xfce, you may get "better" support
[03:34] <holstein> its just unfortunately relevant that there is not a 3d driver for the hardware available..
[03:34] <squeegily> Relevant?
[03:35] <holstein> correct.. relevant in that, there just is no driver to do what you are trying to do.. no support for it
[03:35] <holstein> i know, for me, i just passed that netbook on, and aquired others..
[03:35] <squeegily> What I'm trying to do has nothing to do with 3D though so I fail to see how it's relevant
[03:36] <holstein> squeegily: its the GPU driver, thats why its relevant
[03:36] <squeegily> But 3D is entirely irrelevant here
[03:36] <squeegily> In every sense
[03:36] <holstein> hardware acceleratation is what you want..
[03:36] <squeegily> yes, but not 3d
[03:36] <holstein> that *requires* the driver..
[03:36] <squeegily> Just a 2D driver
[03:37] <holstein> squeegily: you *have* the 2d driver
[03:37] <squeegily> And it's not decoding like it should
[03:37] <holstein> squeegily: you are enjoying the 3d driver right now..
[03:37] <squeegily> How so?
[03:37] <holstein> squeegily: it doesnt do hardware acceleration like you are trying to do..
[03:37] <holstein> squeegily: you are enjoying the 2d driver**
[03:37] <holstein> not the 3d... that was a typ
[03:37] <squeegily> This chip is specifically listed to be able to decode H.264 video at 1080p
[03:37] <holstein> typo*
[03:38] <holstein> squeegily: at intel?
[03:38] <squeegily> At the Arch Wiki
[03:38] <squeegily> Which is Linux
[03:38] <squeegily> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/poulsbo
[03:38] <holstein> squeegily: sure.. anything relevant there would be relevant here
[03:39] <squeegily> It's the same gma500 driver
[03:39] <squeegily> So it is
[03:39] <holstein> squeegily: and, they list "tricks".. try them
[03:40] <holstein> squeegily: you are using mplayer?.. you state using vlc.. the guide you link suggests mplayer..
[03:41] <holstein> specifically https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/poulsbo#Poor_video_performance
[03:42] <squeegily> But that's not working either
[03:42] <squeegily> Mplayer lags just as much
[03:43] <squeegily> Even with 4 threads and frame dropping
[03:43] <holstein> sure.. i know, as i stated before, when i had that chip, i personally just gave up on it.. these days, when i can get better supported hardware so easily, i dont fuss much
[03:43] <squeegily> Except I am poor
[03:44] <squeegily> I have nothing to eat
[03:44] <squeegily> I spent all my savings on a charging cable
[03:44] <squeegily> kidding
[03:44] <holstein> squeegily: sure.. i have several supported machines that i got for free.. but, if you cant eat, why not just watch some lower res videos ;)
[03:45] <squeegily> Because it's a pain in the azz to recode them when this chip, properly accelADD_PARAMETERS='--quirk-vbemode-restore'Kerating, should play them O
[03:45] <squeegily> Wow that message messed up
[03:45] <squeegily> Because it's a pain in the azz to recode them when this chip, with proper acceleration, should play it
[03:46] <holstein> sure.. and, as we stated, you *dont* have proper acceleration.. that is known. the link you gave states that, i know it from having the chip in the past, and you are experiencing that as well, and the creator of the hardware didnt promise it
[03:46] <squeegily> We *do* have proper acceleration for 2D H.264 decoding
[03:47] <holstein> squeegily: sure.. you are trying the svn version of mplayer?
[03:47] <holstein> and, is https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xf86-video-modesetting-git/ compatible with the linux kernel you are using? have you tried it?
[03:48] <holstein> squeegily: there are 6 steps here.. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/poulsbo#Poor_video_performance have you tried them all?
[03:49] <holstein> i dont know anything about that guide, or documenatation, or what kernels are supported by what it references, so, i cant promise you it will work.. what i *can* promise you is, you will spend a lot of time hassling with this chip and accept some compromise
[03:50] <holstein> either, spending a lot of time forcing something mediocre to happen with it, compromising a lot of your time, or, compromise your expectations, and play lower resolution video
[07:11] <JesseDhammu> hello
[07:12] <JesseDhammu> i have installed teamviewer in my xubuntu 12.4 yesterday ,, and today there were some system updates notifications...
[07:13] <bazhang> did you follow them
[07:13] <JesseDhammu> so i updated and upgraded the system .. but after that i am not able to startup.. the boot screen shows "starting Teamviewer daemon starting" and it just hans up there .. it dosent go beyond that screen
[07:13] <JesseDhammu> how to resolve that issue
[07:13] <JesseDhammu> cos i have a database installed on that ...
[07:14] <bazhang> !info teamviewer
[07:15] <JesseDhammu> how do i resolve this issue ..?
[07:15] <bazhang> how was teamviewer installed
[07:15] <JesseDhammu> i downloaded the package from the official website and just doubleclicked to installed it .. .
[07:16] <bazhang> sounds like it was caused your issues
[07:17] <JesseDhammu> see i restarted the sever, now its showing *stopping system V runlevel compatibility [OK]
[07:17] <JesseDhammu> *starting TeamViewer remote contorl daemon [OK]
[07:17] <JesseDhammu> and now its just freezed there ..
[07:17] <JesseDhammu> its not going further ..
[07:17] <JesseDhammu> plz help
[07:22] <JesseDhammu> if i boot in recovery mode and run dpkg would it work ..??
[07:25] <bazhang> remove it?
[07:32] <JesseDhammu> how do i do that ..?
[09:06] <roo79x> hello everyone how are you? I would like to know if there is a way to  get mousepad to run in single instance mode? so if mousepad is open and I  open another file mousepad opens the second file in a new tab instead  of a new window.
[09:42] <roo79x> well this place is a hive of activity???
[09:44] <cfhowlett> roo79x, ask you ubuntu questions
[09:47] <roo79x> I did half an hour ago and I'm still waiting, even for an acknowledgement.
[09:48] <cfhowlett> roo79x, could be that folks are enjoying their xmas holiday (gasp) away from IRC.
[09:48] <roo79x> but it's ok the friendly people over at #xfce are actually helpful..
[09:50] <roo79x> cfhowlett: then why bother being on here? (gasp) it's a help channel right? why be on here if they can't be bothered helping
[09:51] <cfhowlett> roo79x, indeed
[09:54]  * roo79x note to self "Don't bother trying to get help on #xubuntu... it's full of lurkers
[10:36] <xubuntu831> Hi all. i have a problem whis suspend mode. My notebook can't show me desktop after exit from suspend mode/
[10:37] <xubuntu831> can You help me&
[10:37] <xubuntu831> ?
[10:38] <cfhowlett> xubuntu831, ask #ubuntu ... more eyes
[14:20] <xubuntu092> How can i deinstall apps
[14:22] <oew> open Ubuntu Software Center, search for the application you want to remove, higlight it and click Remove
[14:25] <xubuntu092> But if it is not  listed?
[14:26] <wolf1> can u use a terminal xubuntu092 ?
[14:28] <xubuntu092> what do i have to input to do that? this is my first linux
[14:29] <brainwash> !uninstall
[14:30] <wolf1> ctrl + alt + t
[14:31] <xubuntu092> It worked. Thanks
[14:32] <wolf1> ?
[17:54] <Eldunar> Hello, i have some problems with xubuntu 14.10. 1) each time when i log in to desktop its colours are mixed ( some parts of wallpaper and font is painted in red/pink) 2nd i can not get play on linux database application. 3rd is that: previously it was fglrx now ubuntu switched it on its own to xorg and do not want to switch again to fglrx.4rd is that i can not update my system via apt-get
[17:56] <holstein> Eldunar: you mean, xubuntu switched on its own to xorg in stead ot fglrx? but, thats not right either
[17:56] <Eldunar> yeah i do not know why
[17:56] <holstein> Eldunar: you are trying to say, you installed the proprietary driver? you you feel that, xubuntu automatically swtiched back to the open one?
[17:57] <holstein> Eldunar: anyways, i suggest not worrying about "why" what did what, and just see what *is* running, and make whatever you want to happen, happen
[17:57] <holstein> Eldunar: what driver are you using?
[17:57] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/23238/how-can-i-find-what-video-driver-is-in-use-on-my-system
[17:57] <Eldunar> i used the propertiary one for a week but when i logged in desktop was mixed and i saw taht xubuntu is using xorg not
[17:57] <Eldunar> now its xorg
[17:57] <holstein> !xorg
[17:58] <Eldunar> xserver-xorg-video-ati
[17:58] <holstein> Eldunar: xorg is *not* the driver.. it would be in use with the propriatary driver..
[17:58] <holstein> Eldunar: so, use the link i gave, look and see what driver you are using, and share here.. please..
[17:58] <holstein> !paste | Eldunar
[18:00] <Eldunar> http://pastebin.com/M2WQCDdN
[18:03] <holstein> Eldunar: so, you *are* using, as you can read there, the radeon driver..
[18:03] <Eldunar> sorry thats not it
[18:04] <holstein> Eldunar: now, the question is, why is your screen different colors, and without seeing it, i can tell you a few reasons why it may do that.. bad hardware.. bad GPU card, or monitor.. that can cause that.. you can test that with a live ISO
[18:04] <holstein> Eldunar: if the screen is "Fine and dandy" in a live iso, then, the problem is with your install somewhere
[18:04] <Eldunar> http://pastebin.com/80s6c9bV
[18:05] <Eldunar> after relog its fine. and in windows 7 its also fine
[18:05] <holstein> Eldunar: so, if its "Fine" in windows, then the hardware is likely just fine.. what do you mean by "after relog"?
[18:06] <holstein> seems like what you have is dual GPU
[18:06] <Eldunar> not i have not its PC.
[18:06] <Eldunar> relog i mean
[18:06] <Eldunar> log out
[18:06] <Eldunar> and log in
[18:06] <Eldunar> without restart
[18:06] <holstein> Eldunar: sure, what does that mean?
[18:06] <Eldunar> here is radeon 6850
[18:06] <holstein> Eldunar: you mean, you boot, and your graphics are "bad"? then, you logout and back in, and they are "fine" ?
[18:07] <Eldunar> yeah
[18:07] <holstein> Eldunar: from your link.. description:    Intel Graphics
[18:07] <holstein> Eldunar: intel is not amd.. ati
[18:07] <holstein> Eldunar: so, from what i see, you dont need the amd driver..
[18:09] <Eldunar> whats weird. here is Intel i5 CPU and ati radeon 6850 so I HAVE have ati driver
[18:09] <holstein> Eldunar: im not saying, you didnt install the driver, what im saying is, you dont have the hardware
[18:09] <holstein> Eldunar: the link you give states intel graphics, which could mean you have dual GPU.
[18:10] <holstein> Eldunar: what im trying to determine is, what you did, and why?
[18:10] <holstein> Eldunar: can you start there? what did you install? and why? and when were the graphics OK? from the live iso? was the graphics fine then? then, you installed, and all was well? then, you added a driver somehow and broke things?
[18:10] <Eldunar> everything worked fine untill last restart. before i done that i made some projects in blender and i installed PlayonLinux
[18:11] <holstein> Eldunar: ok.. describe your installation of "playoninux".. did you add a PPA? what exactly did you do?
[18:12] <Eldunar> thats in software center
[18:13] <holstein> Eldunar: ok.. so, what are you saying to me, friend?
[18:14] <holstein> Eldunar: you opened the software center? searched for "playonlinux" ? and what? *exactly*
[18:15] <Eldunar> i want to say that : PlayonLinux is in software center. i marked it in software center pressed install and voila, no errors, no warnings just new software aeared in menu. But now i have broken apt-get / software center i can not uninstall it or even other software
[18:16] <Eldunar> is there some way to reinsal or return to previous value apt-get ?
[18:16] <Eldunar> or sth llike that?
[18:17] <Eldunar> E:Write error - write (28: No space left on device), E:IO Error saving source cache, E:The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. ( one of errors which gave me software center)
[18:18] <cfhowlett> Eldunar, you can recreate your software sources ... http://repogen.simplylinux.ch/index.php
[18:19] <holstein> Eldunar: how about this, friend.. open a terminal, and run "sudo apt-get update" and share errors.. share the entire output in a pastebin, please
[18:20] <Eldunar> it stucked : http://pastebin.com/kdykf5CD in place where u see
[18:20] <holstein> Eldunar: what does "it stucked" mean?
[18:21] <Eldunar> just nothig. it says that dowloading headers and nothing happened for 15 min
[18:21] <Eldunar> !!
[18:21] <Eldunar> ~~
[18:22] <holstein> Eldunar: friend, please close *everything*... software center, other terminal.. leave *only* this windows open
[18:22] <holstein> Eldunar: then please open a terminal, right now, and run this command.. "sudo apt-get update" and share the entire output in a pastebin..
[18:22] <Eldunar> ok
[18:23] <drc> "E:Write error - write (28: No space left on device)" tells me that his device/drive is full.
[18:23] <holstein> could be ^ that would cause issue as well
[18:24] <cfhowlett> could be ... :)
[18:25] <drc> Eitherway, it's a problem that needs to be solved :)
[18:26] <holstein> sure.. unless it already has been, or that message is from who knows where
[18:29] <Eldunar> after recreating sources.list its apear to be fine
[18:29] <Eldunar> ill check it by relog
[18:30] <akis> hi all. since yesterday my brand's new laptop HP-14-r107nv with 14.04.1 on it functions keys worked perfectly. F1-F12 worked pressing them simultaneously with FN key and wireless on/off key (f12) nad sound on/off key (f6) and inc/decrease sound (f7&f8) where also worked properly. today f1-f12 work without need to press simultaneously FN key and all other functions are not working. On bios was enabled direct function of f1-f12 (without FN) but x
[18:30] <akis> ubuntu asked for FN and although i tried to disable it (=fn+f1-f12 needed) nothing changed. any idea on this issue?
[18:31] <holstein> Eldunar: check it by opening just a terminal, and running "sudo apt-get update"
[18:31] <holstein> that wont fix a hard drive space issue, if you have one
[18:33] <HassanCehef> akis, how do the FN keys behave on Windows, if you have windows available on your computer?
[18:34] <akis> i dont have windows on the machine, only OS is xubuntu.
[18:35] <HassanCehef> I'd try to enable and disable the option
[18:35] <HassanCehef> The latest Xubuntu bugs a lot I think :(
[18:35] <akis> everything was workink perfectly till yersteday.
[18:36] <holstein> akis: try as another user.. try with the live iso.. try looking for and applying all upgrades.. try booting the older kernel, if you took a kernel update yesterday
[18:37] <HassanCehef> I have issues with the sound, Chromium crashes at startup, and i had to reinstall everything because I had an issue with FF : it would be so slow, slowing the whole machine.
[18:37] <holstein> !bug | HassanCehef
[18:37] <akis> my system is update. i didnt took any new kernel yesterday.
[18:37] <holstein> HassanCehef: i would look at my GPU drivers for the ff slowness, but without details i can only guess..
[18:38] <holstein> akis: but, you are implying that yesterday, something changed.. what changed?
[18:38] <HassanCehef> holstein, actually I think it was a hard drive issue.
[18:38] <HassanCehef> but sure I also have issues with my GPU. Dual gpu intel-ati
[18:38] <holstein> HassanCehef: cool.. then, if it is, lets not FUDD about xubuntu bugs.. file, and help us make it the best it can be
[18:39] <HassanCehef> I never managed to use fglrx :D
[18:39] <HassanCehef> well, the Chromium & pulseaudio issues, I have them since 14.04 and on a fresh install.
[18:41] <HassanCehef> But i'll definitely send sth for pulseaudio :)
[18:41] <akis> holstein: these are the latest updates http://pbrd.co/1H2K0Sl
[18:42] <xangua> did you try to reset keyboard shorcuts configuration?
[18:45] <akis> xangua: n. i just gave some new shortcuts after i read an advise on net and i made sound on/off/dec/increase to be working. but later worked without any shortcuts! and still wifi on/off doesnt work and i dont any command to arrange a shortcut.
[18:52] <akis> why although fn function was disabled through bios xubuntu earlier asked for fn to be f1-f12 functioned and now doesnt asked any more (and that is the reason i think dont the other functions on/off etc work) and although i enable the function of fn through bios to be working with f1-f12 xubuntu doesnt accept it?
[19:24] <akis>  why although fn function was disabled through bios xubuntu earlier asked for fn to be f1-f12 functioned and now doesnt asked any more (and that is the reason i think dont the other functions on/off etc work) and although i enable the function of fn through bios to be working with f1-f12 xubuntu doesnt accept it?
[19:40] <CoreSaint> this is crazy with the services in ubuntu
[19:41] <CoreSaint> there is so much mixing and matching it is insane
[19:45] <CoreSaint> is there a manual that describes how to manage the system but not through gui's
[19:47] <brainwash> what do you want to manage exactly?
[19:50] <CoreSaint> i want to know exactly what services are set to start at boot and how to disable the ones i dont want.... it seems like there are two init systems melted together
[19:50] <CoreSaint> one being dead project "upstart"
[20:00] <brainwash> CoreSaint: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
[20:03] <CoreSaint> brainwash, thank you...
[20:04] <brainwash> not really a xubuntu specific question
[20:04] <brainwash>  / problem
[20:05] <brainwash> also, you could disable a service by removing the according package
[20:08] <CoreSaint> sure but you don't always want to remove the package, although i am not sure why almost every distro by default is running avahi
[20:08] <CoreSaint> it is really usless service for most people
[20:08] <CoreSaint> useless*
[20:15] <brainwash> you can set up a minimal installation and then only install the software you really want/need
[20:15] <brainwash> so, do you have any xubuntu specific questions?
[20:23] <CoreSaint> i don't think i have one at the moment... i am just trying to get the feel for distro overall, just looking for a home for my main Desktop... i do like it overall, i guess i just need to learn to do thing differently then in others distros
[20:24] <CoreSaint> i am also tempted to try out Mint as everyone seem to like it so much
[20:25] <CoreSaint> i've been running Debian Jessie for a past few weeks, and i really liked it...
[22:17] <bjorn_> hi, is there a keyboard shortcut to lock the screen?
[22:18] <bjorn_> reason for asking is that i cant lock the screen from the "menu" (padlock) and don't understand why
[23:07] <Wlsonjl3> i have a .msi file for a game i want to play, is there a way to run it in xubuntu?
[23:07] <knome> Wlsonjl3, depends on the game
[23:07] <Wlsonjl3> pokemon uraniun
[23:07] <Wlsonjl3> uranium*
[23:09] <knome> doesn't look like that
[23:09] <Wlsonjl3> i can't then?
[23:09] <Wlsonjl3> is there a way to run it at all?
[23:09] <knome> that's what i said
[23:10] <knome> you can try with wine, but the developers don't promise that it works
[23:10] <Wlsonjl3> how do i do that?
[23:10] <knome> !wine | Wlsonjl3
[23:11] <Wlsonjl3> oh okay, thank you Knome
[23:11] <knome> good luck


[00:02] <compdoc> the only one I knew was so bad ass he beat me up and stole my gf
[00:11] <stanford_AI> compdoc, sad to hear that :/ - should i stay away from them?
[00:11] <compdoc> only if your gf is good looking
[02:51] <misterpink> Is there anyway to backup Ubuntu server and "reload" it similar to restoring a snapshot of a VM?
[02:52] <misterpink> Or is rsync the way to go?
[03:04] <Jakethepython1> Hello Room i was wondering if anyone else has had troubleinstalling SAMBA
[03:37] <fishcooker> is it safe to trim the memory availability to 2Giga RAM only if i have this usage http://vpaste.net/1lSSY ?
[08:01] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:09] <seyeongkim> somebody can sponsor this issue for SRU? https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1298061
[09:20] <cpaelzer> jamespage: coreycb: ^^ ?
[09:48] <cpaelzer> rbasak: I've used color-words often enough today that I wanted to thank you to make me aware of it
[09:51] <rbasak> You're welcome :-)
[10:56] <davmor2> hey guys quick question on uvtool is there a way I can connect to port 80 to test the nextcloud snap is running correctly from the host, I tried with the ip address and it failed so I'm assuming it needs some port forwarding
[10:57] <rbasak> davmor2: where is the port 80 listener running? In the guest, as a snap? And from where are you trying to connect?
[10:58] <davmor2> rbasak: so install 14.04 image in uvtool, connected to it via uvt-kvm ssh install the relevant bits to install snapd in the guest and install nextcloud now I would like to connect to it from the host browser rather than using a text browser in the guest
[11:00] <rbasak> davmor2: uvtool shouldn't be interfering with that at all, assuming default network settings. Test using nc or something.
[11:00] <davmor2> rbasak: basically I'm testing 14.04 snapd install and need to ensure the nextcloud snap is running as expected
[11:00] <rbasak> davmor2: is the snap really listening on the guest's "outside" NIC interface?
[11:02] <davmor2> rbasak: yeah that is a potential issue but it works in kvm where I manually set 8080 to point to port 80 on guest.  So I think it does
[11:03] <rbasak> davmor2: "echo yes|nc -l 5555" in the guest, and then "nc <ip> 5555" on the host.
[11:03] <rbasak> davmor2: and then remove the snap and try it with 80.
[11:04] <rbasak> davmor2: also check the guest IP as viewed from the host is correct. "uvt-kvm ip <name>" will give you that.
[11:20] <adrian_1908> I installed PHP7 on my 16.04 VPS and it seems that the php-fpm implementation was chosen. Has this become the default when not specified otherwise?
[11:55] <davmor2> rbasak: hmm can't connect locally either I'll kill it and try again pre-snapd install incase that is breaking something thanks for the tips
[12:00] <rbasak> adrian_1908: yes.
[12:01] <rbasak> davmor2: you're welcome. I'm curious to know what the problem turns out to be.
[12:01] <adrian_1908> rbasak: ok, thanks. (not complaining, just expected otherwise)
[12:02] <rbasak> adrian_1908: OOI, why did you expect otherwise? I believe the default comes from Ondrej, the main Debian PHP maintainer. I'm not sure of his reasoning - perhaps what's used most widely or what is recommended upstream?
[12:03] <davmor2> rbasak: the installation of snapd pulls in lost starting at systemd and working it's way up so it might be that kvm isn't taking it so lightly, if it fails again I'll try on hardware and see if it fails there too
[12:12] <adrian_1908> I think it used to be more common/popular to run PHP as an Apache module (Last time I used PHP, it was version 5). I assumed this was the conservative choice to this date. The current default seems to be a superior option, so that's great.
[12:41] <coreycb> seyeongkim, cpaelzer, i'll take a look at that nova sru
[13:00] <davmor2> rbasak: now it works perfectly I think some setting must of got screwed up somehow :)
[13:01] <rbasak> davmor2: OK. Thanks for reporting back :)
[13:05] <coreycb> jamespage, ocata b2 is ready to promote
[13:16] <coreycb> zul, backported panko to ocata-staging
[13:19] <jamespage> coreycb, awesome!
[13:19] <jamespage> coreycb, working that now
[13:19] <jamespage> staging->proposed
[13:20] <coreycb> jamespage, thanks
[13:20] <jamespage> coreycb, its on the list
[13:20] <jamespage> panko
[13:20] <coreycb> jamespage, ok thanks
[13:33] <zul> coreycb:coolio
[13:51] <zul> coreycb: ahaha.....pypi.debian.net is down
[14:40] <coreycb> cpaelzer, hi, you don't happen to have a liberty patch for qemu machine type issue do you?
[14:43] <cpaelzer> coreycb: sorry, no
[14:47] <coreycb> cpaelzer, just looking at your xenial diff from your ppa.  is the delta shown for debian/patches/ubuntu/define-ubuntu-machine-types.patch everything you had to patch for xenial?
[14:48] <coreycb> cpaelzer, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/293383980/qemu_1%3A2.5+dfsg-5ubuntu10_1%3A2.5+dfsg-5ubuntu10.7~ppa1.diff.gz
[15:00] <cpaelzer> coreycb: that has a lot of noise, especially since some types were missing IIRC
[15:00] <cpaelzer> coreycb: the TL;DR of the change is
[15:00] <cpaelzer> -+    pc_i440fx_machine_options(m);
[15:00] <cpaelzer> ++    pc_i440fx_2_0_machine_options(m);
[15:00] <cpaelzer> and similar
[15:00] <cpaelzer> coreycb: the rest is work around to make it behave, e.g. it had double defaults and more extra issues
[15:01] <cpaelzer> coreycb: for liberty if otherwise ok you mainly have to translate that diff above
[15:01] <cpaelzer> coreycb: since that was before a rewrite it likely comes down to some COMPAT structs
[15:01] <cpaelzer> coreycb: but that was so "before my time" that I can't tell for sure
[15:02] <cpaelzer> The Makros like DEFINE_I440FX_MACHINE modularize a lot what the old definitions were like
[15:03] <coreycb> cpaelzer, ok i'll take a look.  the code seems to be quite a bit different at first glance in 2.3 vs 2.5.
[15:04] <cpaelzer> yes it does
[15:04] <cpaelzer> there were two rewrites of this
[15:04] <cpaelzer> and to make it worse - different archs do it differently
[15:07] <cpaelzer> coreycb: I'll ping you once I have a qemu 2.8 to test and will refresh the ppa for the bug - if until then we have a ppa fix for Liberty we can try to go along a fully fixed upgrade path
[15:15] <teward> is someone able to update the server team work page for me to mark the nginx merges as blocked or similar?  there's an fPIE/fPIC problem that causes explosive build failures, and unrelated build failure cases when not building fPIE/fPIC that break the ability to merge.
[15:16] <teward> and since i had to reinstall my OS I lost the link for the work blueprint... :p;
[15:23] <alibama> i’ve got a server that’s shooting out spam… i’m running maldet to see if there are open scripts, but i suspect it’s somehow going through a drupal install… just not sure, and not entirely sure where to begin…. any advice on this?
[15:46] <alibama> i’m going through and updating everything, checking all the applications… any other ideas?
[15:58] <dasjoe> Disable local mail servers
[17:15] <blueking> I have ubuntu server.. with dual nic intel I210AT that supports vlan tagging...  much work to put in lacp + vlan tagging ?
[17:57] <genii> !vlan
[17:57] <genii> Hm
[17:57] <genii> blueking: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/vlan seems to have pretty comprehensive instructions
[19:38] <blueking> just wonder, dual NIC onboard.. using lacp + vlan are possibly yes ?
[19:40] <sarnold> I'm 90% sure I've seen that documented somewhere before
[19:43] <blueking> and vlan 100 and vlan 200 have routing activaded on router... if add vlan 100 and 200 on pc ubuntu..   there are switch between pc and router.. when a pc on vlan 100 request a file from pc-ubuntu  it doesn't go through router but only switch.. and same to pc on vlan 200 request same file on pc-ubuntu.. ?
[19:44] <blueking> like watching movies +++
[19:48] <blueking> hmm  ubuntu have no support for lacp/link aggregation ?
[19:49] <qman__> it most certainly does
[19:49] <qman__> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBonding
[19:49] <blueking> ok  wiki ubuntu said nothing about it :P
[19:51] <qman__> to combine bonding, bridging, and/or vlan, you just do them together, keeping in mind that bonding happens at the lowest level, then bridging, then vlans
[19:52] <qman__> so you'd have your physical interfaces part of a bond0 interface, and then a bond0.x interface for the vlan
[19:55] <blueking> don't need bridge ?
[19:56] <qman__> if you're bridging, that goes in between, bond0, br0 bridging bond0, br0.x for vlan
[19:58] <blueking> what's point of bridging ?
[19:58] <qman__> if you need to bridge to other interfaces
[19:59] <qman__> my use case, and a common one, is for a VM host, needing to bridge VMs to the bond
[19:59] <blueking> not many uses to that on a pc setup.. mostly on switches and routers ?
[20:00] <qman__> mostly for virtual hosts (both servers and PCs in lab scenarios) and stuff that requires very high availability
[20:01] <blueking> never used vm before
[20:01] <blueking> no clue about it :P
[20:02] <blueking> my goal are to reduce load on router
[20:05] <sarnold> do you have evidence that your router is actually suffering under some kind of load?
[20:05] <blueking> router have 8 ports.. define a 'vlan' subnet on each interface (no port trunking of vlans on one interface)   give each subnet vlan ID on switch  the router supports 8Gbps
[20:05] <blueking> no switch chip on router
[20:06] <blueking> and it would need 3 layer  switch to switch at vlan level I've been told
[20:06] <qman__> if you're not already running separate vlans, they aren't going to do anything for you here, the purpose of a vlan is network segregation, not performance
[20:07] <blueking> software switching on routing reduces performance on router...
[20:08] <blueking> on router
[20:08] <blueking> reason for vlan's are limit kids access to net by time
[20:08] <blueking> and have a guest zone
[20:11] <blueking> if bonding + vlan on fileserver means  pc's on diff vlans can go straight to fileserver and not beeing routed through router ?
[20:12] <sarnold> you might want to sketch a diagram of your network
[20:19] <qman__> you would only configure vlans on the ubuntu server if the ubuntu server is connected to a trunked port
[20:50] <mwhahaha> hey folks, it seems that there has been an update in which /etc/default/libvirt-bin is no longer being shipped in packaging. is this expected? (/etc/default/libvirtd seems to be the spot now)
[21:02] <mwhahaha> so if anyone cares, it seems to be the alignment with the debian package (libvirt 2.5.0-3ubuntu1~cloud0). the old service name libvirt-bin has an alias but the default file is now /etc/default/libvirtd
[21:54] <dannf> hey smoser - do you have plans to SRU LP: #1640519 back? I can prepare an upload if you prefer
[21:59] <smoser> dannf, i think we'd just grab zesty and pull it back.
[22:00] <dannf> smoser: *nod*
[22:04] <smoser> i'll talk to rharper tomorrow and we can look at that.
[22:04] <smoser> dch would look like http://paste.ubuntu.com/23818780/
[22:05] <smoser> which is all tests or bug fixes so unless there is something else we want in, i think we can proably do that tomorrow.
[22:05] <dannf> smoser: cool, thanks!
[22:07] <smoser> dannf, youc ould help by writing an SRU template on that bug
[22:07] <dannf> smoser: will do
[22:34] <shygirl> any one seeing my messages?
[22:34] <shygirl> Oh nvm
[22:34] <shygirl> hihi
[22:35] <shygirl> Is this for ubuntu vps (using ubuntu 16.04 OS) as well?
[22:35] <dasjoe> Most probably, yes
[22:35] <shygirl> I have some weird processes i don't know about
[22:35] <shygirl> And never seen before
[22:36] <shygirl> what's these http://i.imgur.com/mqOhY0H.png :~ ps -x
[22:38] <dasjoe> Most are related to your block devices
[22:38] <shygirl> block devices?
[22:38] <sarnold> kpsmoused?
[22:39] <shygirl> I've never seen them before until i ran a command and mess up my whole permission system
[22:39] <sarnold> huh look at that I've got a kpsmoused on my laptop
[22:40] <shygirl> http://i.imgur.com/szge7Yn.png
[22:40] <dasjoe> shygirl: your disk(s), storage devices
[22:40] <shygirl> so why are they showing there
[22:40] <shygirl> it wasn't like that before
[22:41] <shygirl> how to fix
[22:41] <shygirl> .
[22:41] <sarnold> that's normal
[22:41] <shygirl> should i close them?
[22:41] <shygirl> er.. kill?
[22:41] <sarnold> no, and since those are kernel threads, you probably couldn't even if you tried
[22:41] <shygirl> I'm looking for a special process
[22:42] <shygirl> is there a way to search?
[22:42] <sarnold> pgrep has many, but I'm too lazy to learn it, I just use ps auxw | grep ...
[22:42] <shygirl> also, how do i fix my permissions system?
[22:42] <shygirl> I can even do "apt-get" without root now
[22:43] <sarnold> it depends upon what's broken. btw apt-get on its own doesn't require privileges to run it, but you'll need privileges to use e.g. apt-get update or apt-get upgrade
[22:44] <shygirl> i usually need sudo to do it
[22:44] <shygirl> now, it runs without promptng sudo
[22:44] <shygirl> because of a command i ran b4
[22:44] <shygirl> need to revert changes
[22:45] <shygirl> .


[00:04] <malkauns> lol
[06:26] <xtalmath> Hi, I am programming a graphics application in opengl, I recently upgraded to 12.04. Now all pure black pixels become transparent for _some_ kinds of graphics applications, for now I only see flash videos.
[06:26] <xtalmath> I am running the proprietary nvidia driver.
[06:27] <xtalmath> does the nvidia driver treat flash applications specially different from other applications?
[06:28] <xtalmath> the operating system / driver should not permit flash to draw in other applications windows
[06:30] <xtalmath> I would like to isolate the specific function calls that render to "whatever the name is" of the buffer that is drawn before/underneath applications whose black pixels are treated as transparent
[06:34] <xtalmath> btw a while back I came here for vsync issues which I finally resolved, in case anyone care how I did so
[06:36] <xtalmath> I am not entirely sure which of the following 2 steps solved it: installed gnome-session-fallback (everything was much lighter/faster,...), then sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults -s gnome-fallback
[06:37] <xtalmath> which was step 1 then I did sudo nvidia-xconfig --no-composite, after wich tearing was gone...
[06:37] <xtalmath> but both before and after these operations black was transparent for at least flash video's
[06:39] <xtalmath> also, as I said I was programming in opengl, I did a quick test: drew a black background with a colored primitive on top. without flash it worked as expected. with flash video running the youtube video was visible where my application should display black.
[06:40] <xtalmath> then I ran 2 instances (call them gl1 and gl2) of my application at the same time to see if gl1's primitive was visible in gl2's black area or vice versa, but only the youtube video showed through...
[06:42] <xtalmath> => there is a specific buffer (I guess in Nvidia's driver or card) which can get rendered too, and all pure black on the final image of the traditional graphics stack is replaced with pixels from this specific buffer...
[06:42] <xtalmath> so disabling flash to render to it or similar does not seem the right solution, the OS/driver combo should simply not allow one application to draw in anothers area...
[13:40] <TheLordOfTime> hiya peoples.  anyone willing to try and confirm this?  LP Bug 1046150
[13:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1046150 in nginx "nginx segfaults when a try_files directive is used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046150
[13:40] <TheLordOfTime> i've tried to confirm and cannot.
[18:59] <dj_ryan> http://pastebin.com/4XxdNRS6
[18:59] <dj_ryan> gnome-settings-daemon crashes when dmenu runs
[19:57] <pathogenesis> test
[19:58] <pathogenesis> hello
[20:00] <pathogenesis> so what
[20:10] <s9iper1> yes pathogenesis ?
[22:11] <arudil> hi. does anyone know about a bug that mountpoints of external devices are not removed on shutdown?


[05:51]  * conyoo good morning o_O
[07:15] <fgimenez> good morning
[08:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Yellow Pig Day! 😃
[09:22] <mvo> ogra_: I think we are getting somewhere https://github.com/mvo5/uboot-env-go might be simpler for us than fw_setenv/printenv and we can use it directly, but I will stop on that for now and wait how the rest of the uboot env work goes
[09:28] <ogra_> mvo, yeah, i'm fiddlin with a snap currently to have the needed bits (and i also did a new checkout of the latest uboot before producing the new binary)
[09:32] <mvo> ogra_: nice
[10:23] <ogra_> mvo, wget http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/bootloader/beagleblack_1.9_all.snap && sudo ubuntu-device-flash core --channel=edge --oem beagleblack_1.9_all.snap --developer-mode -o bbb.img 15.04 ... then dd it ...
[10:24] <ogra_> it has all env vars inside the uboot.env and ships an empty uEnv.txt (i think snappy still checks for that file to determine if we boot uboot)
[10:24] <ogra_> boots fine for me
[10:26] <ogra_> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11892121/ is the content of my input file for uboot.env
[10:28] <ogra_> (note there is nothing from snapy-system.txt in it yet)
[10:39] <mvo> ogra_: hm, we need that snappy-system.txt in there too, no?
[10:39] <ogra_> yes, and the stamp
[10:40] <mvo> ogra_: yeah, uEnv.txt is currently needed, my branch fixes that (or will)
[10:40] <ogra_> but that requires changes to udf
[10:40] <mvo> aha, is that writing it?
[10:40] <ogra_> i think so ... sergiusens should know
[10:40] <mvo> so udf would basilcy have to take the uboot.env and append the new bits from the oem snap (?)
[10:40] <mvo> out uboot.env with all the default config
[10:41] <mvo> if so I add a task for that to the card
[10:41] <ogra_> well, the above is only the basic bit, with that we should have a good image to do the further work
[10:41] <mvo> ok
[10:41] <mvo> so the uboot.env will just load the snappy-system.txt (?)
[10:41] <ogra_> i guess we *could* just put the snappy-system.txt content inside uboot.env at the snap level
[10:41] <mvo> I guess thats fine, we may even keep that if its just reading from that file, i.e. as long as we keep the system_ab and stuff out
[10:42] <ogra_> i would like to get rid of all these scattered single files ...
[10:42] <mvo> the important part is that the uEnv.txt needs to no longer take the stamp into account and instead a new trail boot var
[10:42] <mvo> yeah, agreed
[10:42] <ogra_> the question is, do we want  that for 15.04
[10:42] <ogra_> or do we just want the very basic bits for 15.04 to not risk stability
[10:43] <mvo> thats a good question, my gut feeling is yes, the amount of churn is already pretty substancial, so best to have 15.04 and 16.04 in sync
[10:43] <ogra_> (whouch would mean only snappy_ab and the stamp inside the env
[10:43] <ogra_> ok, then we need udf involvement i thinnk
[10:44] <ogra_> and either write the snappy-system.txt content to the uboot.env directly ... or have the file content in the snap (not sure why we dont have that currently, there might be a reason)
[10:46] <mvo> I guess the reason is to keep snappy-system.txt bits small
[10:46] <ogra_> i'm a little curious what happens to the env settings that come from ATAGs ... once we call "saveenv" they will be stored in uboot.env
[10:47] <ogra_> (MAC address and the like ... nothing that chnages anyway, but i wonder if uboot will get alon with them being already set)
[10:47] <mvo> ATAGs?
[10:48] <ogra_> well, or values from the dtb ... not sure, but there are like 10 vars set by default even without any environment
[10:48] <mvo> aha
[10:48] <mvo> ok
[10:48] <ogra_> and saveenv during the boot will save them in uboot.env
[10:49] <ogra_> (and i dont thin there is something where you can only save a single var change to the environment, afaik it is all or nothing)+
[10:49] <sergiusens> mvo: ogra_ that is automatic already (if the file is listed)
[10:49] <ogra_> sergiusens, "that" ?
[10:49] <sergiusens> ogra_: uboot.env copy from udf
[10:50] <ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, thats not the issue
[10:50] <ogra_> sergiusens, we need to feed the content of snappy-system.txt into uboot.env
[10:50] <ogra_> and afaik thats created by udf, no ?
[10:50] <sergiusens> ogra_: yes
[10:51] <ogra_> so it needs to learn about that ... or we move snappy-system.txt content directly into the snap
[10:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: you should be able to override it by adding it to the gadget (and that would be supported in uprgades for rolling at least)
[10:51] <ogra_> (meaning directly into uboot.env at creation time)
[10:52] <ogra_> so i could ship an empty file ... and in parallel push the content into uboot.env
[10:52] <ogra_> hmm
[10:52] <ogra_> sounds doable
[10:54] <sergiusens> ogra_: this might put some stress in mvo's work into doing the right thing (TM) inside snappy on upgrades, but he's smart ;-)
[10:54] <ogra_> yeah, snappy needs to modify uboot.env
[10:54] <ogra_> instead of the txt files
[10:54] <ogra_> hrm
[10:55] <sergiusens> ogra_: right, but it needs to save the snappy-system.txt values before overwritting it, that's all
[10:55] <ogra_> and we need to completely re-write the whole logic of the snappy_boot command
[10:56] <ogra_> sergiusens, we can just have "snappy_stamp_last", "snappy_ab_last" and "snappy_mode_last" vars if we need that
[10:56] <ogra_> and have snappy store the values inside uboot.env too
[10:57] <ogra_> i want to get rid of all additional files
[10:57] <ogra_> at least for rolling (not sure we fcan for 15.04)
[11:01] <mvo> ogra_: do we need to change it all? grub is also doing it with a single env, it seems we can copy that behavior for now. and yes +1 for snappy_ab_last etc
[11:01] <mvo> ogra_: thats going to be needed anyway for the os/kernel snap work
[11:02] <mvo> ogra_, sergiusens: sound I need to write some uenv merge code, let me do that
[11:05] <ogra_> mvo, whats "it" ?
[11:05] <ogra_> do you mean snappy_boot ?
[11:05] <ogra_> we need to et rid of the fatwrite call in it at least ... and also change the testing for snappy_stamp ... since it wont be a file but a variable value now
[11:06] <mvo> ogra_: right, there is a snappy_trial_boot env in grub, one sec and I give you the details
[11:09] <mvo> ogra_: ok, so grub works like this: on boot grub itself sets snappy_trial_boot=1 and the boot-sucesss command in snappy clears that
[11:09] <mvo> ogra_: we could simply do the same for uboot now, right? my branch for snappy implements this cleaning in uboot now too
[11:09] <ogra_> yeah
[11:10] <ogra_> i'm just preparing a snap with merged snappy-systerm-txt (and an empty .txt file)
[11:10] <mvo> silly question, whats the canonical location for uEnv.txt?
[11:10] <mvo> ogra_: coool!
[11:10] <ogra_> (still using the old snappy_boot command though)
[11:11] <mvo> ok
[11:11]  * ogra_ wishes for faster dd
[11:17] <ogra_> *twiddle*
[11:17] <ogra_> yay, seems to boot
[11:21] <ogra_> bah
[11:21] <ogra_> sergiusens, udf doesnt seem to respect the empty snappy-system.txt file ...
[11:21] <ogra_> i still have content in it
[11:23] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11892317/
[11:23] <ogra_> sergiusens, ^^^
[11:25]  * ogra_ empties it manually ... crosses fingers and reboots
[11:25] <ogra_> looks like it boots
[11:26] <sergiusens> ogra_: k
[11:26] <ogra_> geez !
[11:26] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ cat /boot/uboot/snappy-system.txt
[11:26] <ogra_> snappy_mode=regular
[11:26] <ogra_> snappy_ab=a
[11:26] <ogra_> still writes to it somewhere
[11:26] <sergiusens> ogra_: you need a new snappy which mvo is taking care of I gues
[11:26] <sergiusens> s
[11:27] <ogra_> ah, it writes that file after boot ?
[11:27] <sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, with the snappy-boot task
[11:27] <ogra_> k
[11:27] <sergiusens> or snappy booted
[11:27] <ogra_> well, but udf needs fixing too
[11:28] <sergiusens> ogra_: yes; but it is going to be hard to fix as we need to support older images too :-/
[11:28] <sergiusens> ogra_: that use that snappy logic
[11:28] <ogra_> well, just make it not create the snappy-system.txt file if the snap ships it
[11:29] <ogra_> that would be anough
[11:29] <ogra_> *enouh
[11:29] <ogra_> bah !
[11:29] <sergiusens> ogra_: right, but think of 15.04 and creating older images which still use the older snappy logic
[11:30] <ogra_> i only think of 15.04 here
[11:30] <sergiusens> ogra_: 15.04 rev 1 then
[11:30] <ogra_> right
[11:30] <ogra_> but there the snaps dont ship snappy-system.txt at all
[11:30] <ogra_> so that should be safe
[11:31]  * ogra_ would really like to know why he only gets the colored "OK" output every second boot
[11:31] <sergiusens> ogra_: right, but if we replace it from u-d-f and the old snappy logic is in place, rollbacks and upgrades would be broken
[11:32] <ogra_> hmm
[11:34] <mvo> where is the cannical uEnv.txt location? do we have that in git somewhere?
[11:34] <ogra_> in the snap
[11:34] <ogra_> (snappy-hub i think... )
[11:35]  * ogra_ hacks the loading of snappy-system.txt out of uboot.env ... lets see if it gets along, then the content wont matter
[11:36] <ogra_> and more dd fun ...
[11:37] <mvo> ogra_: try godd - it has a progress bar :)
[11:37] <ogra_> mvo, and that makes it faster ?
[11:37] <ogra_> :P
[11:37] <mvo> ogra_: weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel
[11:37] <ogra_> :D
[11:38] <mvo> ogra_: do you want me to build you a snappy with boot-success that uses snappy_trial_boot?
[11:38] <ogra_> well, if that can write to uboot.env already
[11:39] <mvo> it can using fw_setenv, but I can make you a better (native) version I think that does not need /etc/fw_env.config
[11:40] <ogra_> with your ned code ? yeah
[11:40] <ogra_> *new
[11:40] <mvo> yep
[11:42] <mvo> ogra_: eh, sorry, I mean, whats the canonical location of snappy-system.txt ? i.e. the file that implements the actual logic?
[11:42] <ogra_> mvo, on disk it is /boot/uboot/snappy-system.txt ... in udf i dont know
[11:42] <ogra_> if this dd ever finishes i'll know if we can boot completely without it
[11:43] <mvo> ogra_: right, udf was the bit that I was looking for, thanks! i.e. in what version control system it is
[11:43] <mvo> thanks!
[11:43]  * sergiusens celebrates an exit status 2 on snappy install
[11:43] <ogra_> looks good !
[11:43] <mvo> sergiusens: you were on fire yesterday? so many branches
[11:43] <ogra_> (the boot i mean)
[11:44] <sergiusens> mvo: well none are really ready for review, I just got scared that I'd lose my laptop somehow and have to redo stuff :-P
[11:44] <mvo> lol
[11:47] <ogra_> i updated http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/bootloader/beagleblack_1.9_all.snap ... snappy-system.txt shouldnt be used at all anymore with that
[11:47] <ogra_> (now we have snappy_stamp left)
[11:48] <mvo> near
[11:48] <mvo> neat
[11:48] <mvo> !
[11:48] <ogra_> so we shouldnt need changes to udf
[11:48] <ogra_> (it is just ugly that the file sticks around but wont do harm)
[11:48]  * ogra_ notes it might be time for some breakfast
[11:48] <ogra_> :P
[11:49] <ogra_> brb
[11:50] <ogra_> bah, crap, forgot the meerting ... no food for me then
[11:54] <mvo> ogra_: highly untested, but http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/snappy will use /boot/uboot/uboot.env  to set snappy_ab, snappy_mode and snappy_trial_boot
[11:56] <ogra_> mvo, i assujme i replace /usr/bin/snappy with that ?
[11:58] <mvo> ogra_: yes
[11:58] <ogra_> [FAILED] Failed to start Notify bootloader that boot was successful.
[11:58] <ogra_> [FAILED] Failed to start Run snappy firstboot setup.
[11:58] <ogra_> [FAILED] Failed to start Run snappy compatibility hooks.
[11:58] <mvo> ogra_: uh, thats the amd64 build
[11:58] <mvo> ogra_: I need to give you the arm build of course
[11:58] <ogra_> lovely :P
[11:58] <ogra_> at least we know it still boots to a prompt even with broken snappy binary :P
[11:59] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/datengrab/rpi/uboot/bbb$ file snappy
[11:59] <ogra_> snappy: ELF 64-bit LSB  executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=faa20b2d15c5c16533f51239a2a517f78db36dd6, not stripped
[11:59] <ogra_> heh, yeah
[12:02] <mvo> ogra_: armhf version is upload
[12:02] <mvo> ogra_: armhf version is uploading
[12:02] <ogra_> cool
[12:03] <mvo> ogra_: try http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/snappy_armhf
[12:07] <ogra_> mvo, looks good, no failures this time
[12:08] <mvo> ogra_: cool, will a binary that can dump the env help?
[12:08] <mvo> ogra_: to verify that it works?
[12:08] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ cat /boot/uboot/snappy-system.txt
[12:08] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$
[12:08] <ogra_> and it didnt write to the file :)
[12:08] <ogra_> yeah, that might help
[12:09] <ogra_> i guess to test the whole update/rollback stuff i need to build a -1 image
[12:09] <ogra_> (and even then i'm not sure i can actually update)
[12:10] <mvo> ogra_: http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/uboot-env-armhf
[12:10] <mvo> ogra_: that uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env print
[12:10] <mvo> ogra_: hopefully works
[12:13] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env print|wc -l
[12:13] <ogra_> 70
[12:13] <ogra_> mvo, looks good
[12:14] <mvo> ogra_: does the content look ok too? i.e. snappy_boot_trial is cleared (if you set it already)?
[12:14] <ogra_> not sure a regular user should be able to run this :)
[12:14] <mvo> ogra_: and try is set back to regular?
[12:14] <mvo> ogra_: heh :)
[12:15] <ogra_> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11892475/
[12:17] <mvo> ogra_: that looks good can you try "uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env set snappy_mode=try", then reboot, then see if the boot sets it to "snappy_mode=regular" after the boot?
[12:17] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ sudo ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env set snapy_mode=try
[12:17] <ogra_> panic: runtime error: index out of rang
[12:17] <mvo> ups, sorry
[12:18] <mvo> ogra_: that looks good can you try "uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env set snappy_mode try"
[12:18] <mvo> has to be two args
[12:18] <ogra_> doesnt work :(
[12:18] <mvo> same error?
[12:18] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ sudo ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env set snapy_mode try
[12:18] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env print|grep ^snappy_mode
[12:18] <ogra_> snappy_mode=regular
[12:18] <ogra_> no error ...
[12:18] <mvo> uh
[12:18] <ogra_> oh
[12:18] <ogra_> bah
[12:19]  * ogra_ tries without typo
[12:19] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ sudo ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env set snappy_mode try
[12:19] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env print|grep ^snappy_mode
[12:19] <ogra_> snappy_mode=try
[12:19] <mvo> :)
[12:19] <ogra_> works without PEBKAC
[12:19] <ogra_> ;)
[12:19] <mvo> puhhh, I was scared for a minute
[13:30] <kyrofa> kgunn, another change we might want to consider making for Ubuntu Personal: Disable the automatic reboot
[13:31] <kyrofa> kgunn, just make the power button red or something
[13:34] <kgunn> kyrofa: sorry...automatic reboot ?
[13:34] <kyrofa> kgunn, yeah, Ubuntu Core seems to be configured to automatically update and reboot. Which makes a certain amount of sense for embedded devices
[13:35] <kyrofa> kgunn, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes for Ubuntu Personal (which still seems to be configured that way)
[13:36] <kgunn> seb128: ^ not sure who we'd talk to...i mean i guess this is based on our touch update technology, and it doesn't autoupdate/reboot afaik
[13:38] <seb128> kgunn, kyrofa, does it really make more sense for an embedded device? depends what the device is doing
[13:38] <kyrofa> kgunn, yeah, heads up-- first few times you fire up the VM and try to ssh in only to see "snappy autopilot triggered a reboot to boot into an up to date system" or "Going down for a reboot" it catches you a bit by surprise :P
[13:38] <seb128> if that's your car engine control you don't want it to reboot while you are driving :p
[13:38] <kyrofa> seb128, oh it certainly depends!
[13:39] <kyrofa> seb128, but I can see it making sense for a router or something. Keep it up-to-date and secure
[13:40] <kyrofa> seb128, if it was up to me, I'd definitely not make it the default on anything
[13:40] <kyrofa> seb128, but it seems to be that way on Ubuntu Core, at least for the time being
[13:40] <kyrofa> seb128, wait... maybe that's an edge thing?
[13:40] <seb128> kyrofa, even a router, it might be on a critical infrastructure that should get package cut even for 10 secondes
[13:40] <seb128> unsure
[13:41] <kyrofa> kgunn, seb128: This may be a non-issue if it's only on edge. sergiusens can answer for sure
[13:43] <kyrofa> seb128, agreed on the auto-updates. Tough to make that case
[13:43] <seb128> yeah
[13:44] <seb128> how can we turn it off? do you know?
[13:45] <sergiusens> kgunn: kyrofa seb128 I'd discuss the issue with the architecture team
[13:45] <sergiusens> snappy config ubuntu-core config_with_ap_disabled
[13:46] <seb128> do we have a way to ship a different default config on the image?
[13:46] <seb128> or a standard place in livecd-rootfs or such to call that
[13:48] <mterry> mvo, I know you're busy today, but if you have time, I have some snapcraft branches I'd love some action on
[13:48] <sergiusens> seb128: create your own gadget snap
[13:48] <sergiusens> seb128: and have u-d-f pull that in instead of generic-amd64
[13:48] <seb128> just for that?
[13:49] <seb128> hum
[13:49] <seb128> that sounds like more work that the change is worth
[13:49] <seb128> kyrofa, kgunn ^
[13:49] <kyrofa> seb128, hum indeed
[13:49] <sergiusens> gadget snaps are exactly for that, configs
[13:50] <kyrofa> seb128, depends on what's in generic-amd64 though. Might not be too bad
[13:50] <sergiusens> seb128: I bet you will diverge more (e.g.; seed in some preinstalled snaps)
[13:50] <kyrofa> seb128, yeah, we may need to do that eventually anyway
[13:50] <seb128> sergiusens, that's probably true yeah
[13:51] <sergiusens> seb128: the gadget snap is like the custom tarball on the phone
[13:51] <sergiusens> except that it is declared and not just overlayed
[13:52] <seb128> sergiusens, yeah, those are things I didn't look at so far and I've no clue about
[13:52] <seb128> so I guess it's a good time to learn about them ;-)
[13:52] <sergiusens> seb128: don't look too deep though, ricmm is redefining it all
[13:53] <seb128> k
[13:53] <sergiusens> seb128: some things may move back to the kernel snap (as we had it before)
[13:56] <tedg> mterry, So, did you have thoughts about editing the package.yaml in snapcraft?
[13:56] <tedg> mterry, It seems like something we're gonna need, and probably in a generic way.
[13:58] <mterry> tedg, how do you mean editing?
[13:58] <tedg> mterry, For instance having a plugin add a binary
[13:59] <tedg> mterry, But also adding the architecture
[14:00] <mterry> tedg, oh... I guess I imagined the user would explicitly add binaries and such they wanted -- it's hard to do automatically.  There's caps and maybe calling the binary something different, etc
[14:01] <tedg> mterry, So Chipaca was thinking that the QML plugin would get the QML file, and then add a binary for it that was the execution of qmlscene.
[14:01] <tedg> mterry, I think that's a reasonable use case, and there'll probably be others. For instance if a plugin added tools.
[14:01] <rsalveti> ogra_: so to test if you get the fs corruption or not try image 3 from alpha
[14:02] <rsalveti> and update/rollback to image 5
[14:02] <ogra_> rsalveti, right, not completely done yet
[14:02] <ogra_> wget http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/bootloader/beagleblack_1.9_all.snap && sudo ubuntu-device-flash core --channel=edge --oem beagleblack_1.9_all.snap --developer-mode -o bbb.img 15.04 ... then dd it ...
[14:03] <ogra_> that gets you a setup which doesnt use snappy-system.txt anymore ... but we still need to re-work snappy_boot to remove the fatwrite and need to integrate mvos snappy changes
[14:03] <rsalveti> did we land the snappy changes from mvo?
[14:03] <ogra_> not yet
[14:03] <rsalveti> right
[14:03] <rsalveti> and udf changes as well
[14:03] <ogra_> i only managed to do an initial test before he left ... we'll work on it more once he returns
[14:04] <ogra_> udf changes arent needed
[14:04] <ogra_> only cosmetic
[14:04] <rsalveti> but might be good to manually test it with the alpha release, to know if all the work we did will indeed not cause the fs corruption we had
[14:04] <ogra_> (teh file will be created but not used by anything)
[14:04] <mterry> tedg, so for that use case, we'd want an assemble_fixes() step or something?
[14:04] <ogra_> right, once we have all bits ready i'll test alpha
[14:05] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, or perhaps the "snap_file()" command would pass the current YAML as an object.
[14:06] <tedg> mterry, So then everyone would update it and it gets written out once.
[14:06] <mterry> tedg, well there's more they might want to edit, like the apparmor stuff maybe?   But for sure the yaml object is 99% case
[14:07] <mterry> tedg, I don't think it semantically fits with snap_files(), but it is the same step
[14:07] <mterry> tedg, edit_package()?
[14:07] <mterry> tedg, we also might want to version our plugin interface, btw
[14:09] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, I guess I figured it was the "final step" or perhaps with assemble.
[14:09] <tedg> mterry, Sure, but let's wait until we have plugins that aren't in tree.
[14:10] <mterry> tedg, no, snap_files() is actually called on 'snap' step, not 'assemble' one
[14:10] <tedg> mterry, Yes, I was more suggesting where it might edit the packaging.
[14:11] <mterry> tedg, ah.  Well so far we only copy the metadata into place during assemble.  But maybe we should actually do that during snap...
[14:12] <mterry> tedg, maybe all the bits in assemble should really be in snap, so the user can muck with everything in its final position/state
[14:12] <mterry> tedg, then assemble is truly just a snappy build call
[14:13] <elopio> good morning.
[14:14]  * mterry waves at elopio
[14:16] <nuclearbob> is there a bug somewhere about gpio/i2c support that I can follow?
[14:17] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, that makes sense to me.
[14:18] <elopio> nuclearbob: there is not.
[14:19] <elopio> nuclearbob: only a mailing list thread and the promise by ogra_ that he will let us know when it's ready. You can file one.
[14:19] <ogra_> well, and it is a broader thin ...
[14:19] <ogra_> *thing
[14:19] <nuclearbob> ogra_: if subscribing to the list is the best thing to do, I can do that
[14:19] <ogra_> the bugs is "adding support for overlay devicetree files" ...
[14:19] <nuclearbob> elopio: thanks
[14:19] <nuclearbob> oh
[14:19] <nuclearbob> that does sound broader
[14:20] <ogra_> it is ... and rather complex, since we look for a generic way and the boards function differently
[14:20] <elopio> on my beaglebone I saw the /dev/i2c-0
[14:20] <elopio> I'll play with that :)
[14:20] <ogra_> i will have overlay support in the next rpi image (via manual hacks) but not yet on the beaglebone
[14:22] <nuclearbob> okay, the rpi is what I'm looking for since I've got the orange matchbox
[14:30] <ogra_> rsalveti, gah
[14:31] <ogra_> so now i definitely know that fatwrite even messes up the uboot.env file
[14:31] <ogra_> (BeagleBoneBlack)ubuntu@localhost:~$ ./uboot-env-armhf /boot/uboot/uboot.env print|grep ^snappy_mode
[14:31] <ogra_> 2015/07/17 14:29:29 readUbootEnv failed for /boot/uboot/uboot.env: bad CRC:<PHONE_NUMBER> != 861698245
[14:31]  * ogra_ forgot to take the fatwrite out before reboot
[14:40] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/datengrab/rpi/uboot/bbb$ ls /media/ogra/system-boot/a/
[14:40] <ogra_> DTBS  HARDWA~1.YAM  INITRD.IMG  VMLINUZ
[14:40] <ogra_> rsalveti, btw, that looks like the root cause of our corruption ^^^^
[14:40] <ogra_> 8+3 ...
[14:41] <ogra_> (after fatwrite )
[14:48] <rsalveti> ogra_: sorry, what is the root cause?
[14:49] <rsalveti> so fatwrite even when writing to a known file is already enough to cause the issue
[14:49] <ogra_> rsalveti, seems the driver used by fatwrite doesnt support long filenames
[14:49] <rsalveti> it actually does
[14:49] <rsalveti> that's a consequence of fsck.vfat I believe
[14:49] <ogra_> so the a and b directory content names get rewritten
[14:49] <ogra_> oh, ok
[14:49] <rsalveti> that doesn't happen all the time
[14:50] <rsalveti> sometimes it stays fine, but fsck creates a FSCK0000.REC file
[14:50] <tedg> Chipaca, so getting those modules added means my snap is now 190 MB
[14:50] <ogra_> lovely
[14:50] <ogra_> should we perhaps kick it out ?
[14:50] <rsalveti> ogra_: so it looks like a combination of fatwrite + fsck
[14:51] <Chipaca> tedg: hah
[14:51] <Chipaca> tedg: I win, then
[14:51] <Chipaca> tedg: you're copying too much stuff
[14:51] <tedg> Chipaca, I have fonts ;-)
[14:51] <rsalveti> so basically we got back to the initial issue
[14:51] <rsalveti> and might need some fatwrite debugging
[14:51] <ogra_> well, as expected ...
[14:52] <ogra_> as i said, i forgot to take out the fatwrite stuff before rebooting
[14:52] <ogra_> i just find it interesting that it even kills the blob if used like we did
[14:52] <ogra_> (this wont happen once we're done)
[14:52] <Chipaca> tedg: 70MB of fonts?
[14:53] <tedg> Chipaca, You can never have too many emoji
[14:55] <sergiusens> Chipaca: tedg put it in a squash
[14:55] <Chipaca> tedg: 👹
[14:55] <ogra_> +1
[14:56] <ogra_> squash as squash can !
[14:56] <Chipaca> also � with a � of �
[14:56]  * ogra_ wonders whyt kinds of fonts you all use ... i only get broken chars here
[14:57] <sergiusens> ogra_: it's on purpose ;-)
[14:57] <Chipaca> ogra_: symbola + quivira cover most of the fun stuff
[14:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: oh rly?
[14:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I thought this was a squashing pun :-P
[14:57] <Chipaca> fonts are already compressed, fwiw
[15:03] <Chipaca> ogra_: you just reminded me of my first 3d accelerator
[15:03] <Chipaca> ogra_: :)
[15:03] <ogra_> haha !
[15:03] <ogra_> oh yeah, and the fun to get the dirver up
[15:33] <elopio> fgimenez: ugh, that 91 tests depends on the 90 test. Are you ok if I just remove both?
[15:33] <fgimenez> elopio, sure
[15:33] <elopio> 91 in this case will just do a fake update, which we already have. And the 15.04_to_rolling branch fully replaces 91.
[15:35] <fgimenez> elopio, yes, it's already covered
[15:40] <fgimenez> elopio, i'm preparing a branch with the changes to main.go and the template
[15:41] <elopio> fgimenez: not sure what you are talking about, but bring it on!
[15:41] <fgimenez> elopio, :) for removing the includeShell code, i'll push it shortly
[15:41] <elopio> fgimenez: I confirm that the RC test fails to reboot on latest rolling edge.
[15:42] <mvo> ogra_: is there anything I need to do? i.e. are you blocked on me currently?
[15:42] <fgimenez> elopio, yep i'll report it
[15:42] <elopio> fgimenez: oh, good. Thanks for mentioning it, I was about to do the same. I give you the honors :)
[15:42] <ogra_> mvo, well, land your stuff ... nothing beyond that ... i'll try to get the script bits done before EOD today ... the rest on monday then
[15:43] <mvo> ogra_: ok
[15:46] <fgimenez> elopio, :) thanks, done
[15:48] <ogra_> mvo, so when turning snappy_stamp into a boolean we should be fine i guess ? starting with snappy_stamp=0 ... having the boot script set it to 1 (instead of touching the file) ... who sets it back to 0 ? (whi was responsible for deleting it from disk )
[15:49] <mvo> ogra_: yeah, its snappy_trial_boot=1 in grub, would be good to just mimick that
[15:49] <elopio> fgimenez: what do you think of moving all the tests to the tests directory?
[15:50] <mvo> ogra_: so grub itself sets snappy_trial_boot=1 i in its environment on boot and then the boot-script clears that value
[15:50] <elopio> if we have one single package, the filtering is easier.
[15:50] <ogra_> mvo, for rolling for sure ... would we want to do that switch in 15.04 though ?
[15:50] <ogra_> (reanming the var and all)
[15:51] <mvo> ogra_: hm, good question, my gut feeling is yes, its a bigger change but at least its the same code path as grub and 16.04. and it will be different in any case from the previous version so the more uniform the better I would say
[15:51] <fgimenez> elopio, mm at first we grouped them by the image they needed, hence the 'latest', 'update' packages, which translate to different binaries, i'm not sure if it's applicable yet?
[15:52] <ogra_> mvo, ok
[15:52] <sergiusens> mvo: ogra_ just convert the 0-1 into a counter
[15:52] <elopio> fgimenez: oh, right. You'll have to read the 15.04_to_rolling first for this to make sense.
[15:52] <ogra_> sergiusens, err
[15:52] <elopio> we'll talk about it on monday.
[15:52] <sergiusens> or is math not doeable in u-boot?
[15:52] <fgimenez> elopio, ah ok
[15:52] <ogra_> it is but that makes everything more complex
[15:53] <sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, but we get counter failover which makes mvo happy ;-)
[15:53] <ogra_> if test $snappy_stamp = 1; then ...
[15:53] <sergiusens> not for 15.04 though
[15:53] <ogra_> thats pretty trivial to add
[15:53] <mvo> sergiusens, Chipaca: if one of you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/snappy/snappy-bootsuccess-env/+merge/264981 - that would be very cool, that would unblock ogra_
[15:53]  * Chipaca looks
[15:54] <sergiusens> mvo: not enough cleanup
[15:54] <sergiusens> :-P
[15:54] <mvo> sergiusens: followup branch ;)
[15:54]  * sergiusens jokes
[15:54] <sergiusens> mvo: oh, lol
[15:55] <mvo> sergiusens: but totally agreed, there is so much more we can do now
[15:55] <ogra_> dont ask me about go ... looks fine to me but that means nothing :P
[15:55] <elopio> fgimenez: if you just leave a return at the end of a function, it will find the values it has to return?
[15:55] <fgimenez> elopio, if they are named in the signature yes
[15:56] <elopio> that is impressive.
[15:56] <mvo> it does, but some people dislike this style
[15:57] <fgimenez> elopio, coming from other languages a find it wonderful, yep :) anyway in this case it comes from the gocheck api, not sure if we have another options here
[15:58] <Chipaca> elopio: also confusing, so don't do it* :)
[15:58] <mvo> ogra_: I get some quick dinner, let me know if you need anything I will get to it when I return
[15:58] <Chipaca> * unless you have good reason to ;)
[15:58]  * elopio wants to approve this so much...
[15:58] <ogra_> mvo, yeah, i dont think so ... will need to fiddle with the snappy_boot cmd now
[15:58] <ogra_> (and i need some food myself)
[15:58] <sergiusens> mvo: added questions
[15:58] <elopio> fgimenez: I'll leave you the +1, you do the top approve when you update the return.
[16:00] <Chipaca> mvo: lgtm, but sergio beat me to it :)
[16:00] <sergiusens> mvo: elopio fgimenez boilerplate returns are ok if the function is small; but you shouldn't name vars if it only adds cruft and no meaning (e.g.; name these (string, string, string, error) but maybe not these (string, error))
[16:02] <elopio> sergiusens: so better to keep the signature short than to use a bare return, that makes sense.
[16:03] <sergiusens> elopio: go vet catches most of these btw
[16:04] <fgimenez> sergiusens, ok, thanks, for implementing a custom checker here https://code.launchpad.net/~fgimenez/snappy/test-writable-paths/+merge/265110 i've seen this http://godoc.org/gopkg.in/check.v1#Checker, perhaps the interface can be satisfied without naming the return values?
[16:04] <elopio> sergiusens: it seemed happy with the bare return version.
[16:04] <sergiusens> elopio: fgimenez https://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#named-results
[16:05] <sergiusens> fgimenez: you don't need to name the return vals to satisfy an interface iirc
[16:05] <sergiusens> fgimenez: elopio in any case, if it makes the code simpler and faster to read, it's a +1 to whatever ;-)
[16:05] <fgimenez> sergiusens, or just "return result, error" as elopio mentioned? having them already defined seems to be handy
[16:06] <kgunn> hey so, on a rolling core image, i do snappy search mir, i see it...then sudo snappy install mir  fails to install "snappy package not found"
[16:06] <elopio> sergiusens: yes, that link basically says the opposite of what you said :)
[16:06] <kgunn> what's up with that ^ ?
[16:07] <elopio> kgunn: do you have the ens3 iface up?
[16:07] <kgunn> yes
[16:07] <kgunn> without it, i couldn't see results in search
[16:07] <elopio> let me kill my instance and try.
[16:07] <sergiusens> kgunn: didn't we have this conversation already? :-P
[16:07] <elopio> it might need to add the origin.
[16:08] <sergiusens> kgunn: there is no 'mir' package https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/package/mir
[16:08] <elopio> or that :)
[16:08] <sergiusens> kgunn: https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=mir does say there isa mir.mvp-demo with no alias
[16:09] <sergiusens> which is not ok for a framework
[16:09] <sergiusens> kgunn: I'd ask the store guys
[16:09] <elopio> sergiusens: how do you add an alias ?
[16:09]  * sergiusens pokes at nessita and beuno
[16:09] <kgunn> all news to me
[16:09] <sergiusens> elopio: by being a store admin
[16:09] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1474658
[16:09] <kgunn> all i know is search returns "mir" and you can't install it
[16:09] <elopio> kgunn: sergiusens: so it's the same bug ^
[16:10] <sergiusens> elopio: so someone must of fiddled with the store database :-/
[16:10] <elopio> either the search should return the origin, or it should be installed without an origin.
[16:10] <sergiusens> elopio: yeah, https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=hello-dbus-fwk no alias there
[16:10] <sergiusens> elopio: no, frameworks without origin aren't allowed
[16:11] <sergiusens> elopio: so the proper client solution is to not show them in the search results until they have an alias
[16:11] <elopio> sergiusens: I mean that snappy install could append the origin to the name you pass. Just a suggestion, not saying it's good.
[16:11] <elopio> sergiusens: ok, I like that too.
[16:13] <elopio> fgimenez: so, I'd say "return result, error", because Chipaca finds it confusing. I was confused too when I read it. Handy, but maybe too fancy.
[16:14]  * Chipaca is the receptacle of the truth, and as such, if he finds something confusing it is only because it *is* confusing
[16:14] <elopio> no need to state the obvious :)
[16:14] <elopio> sergiusens: can you give the the credentials for the snappy-tarmac user?
[16:15] <kgunn> bbiab
[16:16] <sergiusens> elopio: let me add your ssh keys
[16:17] <fgimenez> elopio, ok done, much clearer now :)
[16:18] <fgimenez> nice weekend everyone o/
[16:38] <sergiusens> elopio: extending https://tour.golang.org/basics/7
[17:05] <elopio> beuno: ev: is this something you will be supporting? https://launchpad.net/snappy-proposed-image-builder
[17:06] <ev> elopio: no, that's legacy
[17:07] <ev> elopio: CI works in images; it does not handle creating them. A service can be created for composing an image given some snaps, but the CI architecture won't know about its internals
[17:08] <elopio> ev: ack. utlemming: what can we do to start a canonistack machine with the latest rolling edge?
[17:10] <utlemming> elopio: rolling edge will be created sometime automatically and then published to Canonistack. One the build appears, you would launch it like you would any other Openstack instance
[17:11] <elopio> utlemming: good. Is there an easy way to know the name of the latest image? Or do we have to grep for ubuntu-core and sort the date?
[17:23] <ogra_> mvo, ok, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/bootloader/beagleblack_1.9_all.snapshould now have workign logic ... it uses snappy_trial_boot as boolean (0/1) instead of the snappy-stamp.txt file ...
[17:24] <mvo> ogra_: neat! where is the source for that? I would love to have a look
[17:25] <ogra_> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11893726/ ... thats the input file used for uboot.env
[17:27] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11893737/ has the steps i used
[17:28] <ogra_> (beyond re-packing the .snap)
[17:30] <mvo> ogra_: neat!
[17:30] <mvo> sergiusens: thanks for your excellent feedback, I'm fixing now
[17:30] <ogra_> with that we're ready for end to end testing on monday i think
[17:31] <sergiusens> mvo: no worries, it only popped into my mind in retrospect of the grub work
[17:31] <sergiusens> to avoid writing as much as possible :-)
[17:31] <mvo> sergiusens: :)
[17:46] <nessita> sergiusens, needing an alias?
[17:47] <tedg> Uhg, I'm missing a variable somewhere.
[17:48] <tedg> Chipaca, Did you ever get "qmlscene: could not find a Qt installation of ''"
[17:48] <beuno> '' has been known to be hard to find
[17:49] <tedg> I tried dividing by zero, but that didn't help.
[17:52] <ogra_> hmm, telegram is dead on both of my phones
[17:57] <tedg> ogra_, Thumbnailer issue, apparently they dropped the C++ lib
[17:57] <ogra_> uuuh
[17:57] <ogra_> oh, yeah http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/vivid/20150717.changes
[17:58]  * ogra_ notes libsnappy1 in there :D
[17:58] <ogra_> secretly sneaking into the phone :)
[18:00] <kenvandine> plotting to take over the world
[18:03] <ogra_> :D
[18:13] <nessita> sergiusens, elopio, the store will not se any alias automatically, so if you need specific packages with alias, you should email Martin and me for us to set manually
[18:14] <sergiusens> nessita: beuno it's aliases that WERE there and AREN'T anymore ;-)
[18:17] <nessita> sergiusens, yeah? I would say "impossible", but tell me more :-)
[18:17] <nessita> sergiusens, I personally never ever set an alias for mir
[18:17] <sergiusens> nessita: at least hello-dbus-fwk had an alias
[18:17] <nessita> perhaps beuno did, but lately he ask me to set alias
[18:18] <beuno> I sometimes in my sleep change things to mess up sergiusens, yes
[18:18] <sergiusens> nessita not sure about mir, all I know is that I told the people asking about it that it needs an alias
[18:18] <sergiusens> beuno: lol
[18:18] <nessita> sergiusens, what alias had hello-dbus-fwk set?
[18:19] <sergiusens> nessita: aliased to hello-dbus-fwk
[18:19] <nessita> sergiusens, and who setthe alias? (I didn't)
[18:19] <sergiusens> nessita: I thought 'alias' is a gimmick, we always want it to be 'package_name'
[18:19] <sergiusens> nessita: I have no idea! It worked, now it doesn't
[18:19] <sergiusens> that's all I know
[18:20] <sergiusens> nessita: and elopio reported a bug, I just saw it had no alias
[18:20] <sergiusens> nessita: maybe we can just set it for hello-dbus-fwk and drink some scotch to forget this ever happened :-P
[18:20] <nessita> sergiusens, so the only alias we have set are: generic-i386, generic-amd64
[18:21] <sergiusens> nessita: what about webdm?
[18:21] <nessita> sergiusens, we could do that, but I would like to know that the alias setting process is understood
[18:21] <sergiusens> nessita: that did have an alias and made the arrangements to set it
[18:21] <sergiusens> heh, yeah, webdm does have an alias
[18:22]  * sergiusens wipes the sweat off his forehead
[18:23] <nessita> as a summary: alias is set by hand by either beuno or matiasb or me, and we don't remove it unless explicitely asked for, and there is no automatic process to set one
[18:23] <sergiusens> nessita: wrt the process, beuno promised me that oem and framework snaps would get auto aliased when getting approved into the store (he didn't say when though)
[18:23] <beuno> sergiusens, FWIW, we're working on allowing al reviewers to set aliases
[18:23] <beuno> like yourself
[18:23] <sergiusens> beuno: great
[18:23] <beuno> which we'll follow at some point with some automation
[18:23] <beuno> but at least expand the group who can set it significantly
[18:24] <sergiusens> beuno: great, because fwk and oem can't be forked
[18:25] <mvo> Chipaca: libxkbcommon is uploaded to wily, I clone the repo for a pull-request now, lets see what upstream says
[18:25] <sergiusens> nessita: in any case, I didn't ask for hello-dbus-fwk to be aliased, did not approve it into the store nor did I push it; I only noticed it is a framework and it is missing an alias :-)
[18:27]  * sergiusens checks to see who approved hello-dbus-fwk and mir
[18:29] <sergiusens> jdstrand: I see you approved hello-dbus-fwk into the store, did you ask any of the store guys to create an alias for it?
[18:29] <sergiusens> jdstrand: ditto for mir. Bringing it up as they need to be aliased and it's not automatic
[18:30] <jdstrand> sergiusens: I did not
[18:30] <jdstrand> sergiusens: on either
[18:30] <jdstrand> oh, I didn't realize that
[18:30] <jdstrand> so, we must request that all new frameworks must have an alias?
[18:31] <sergiusens> jdstrand: yes, it's all related to them not being able to have forks
[18:31] <jdstrand> shouldn't the store just do that for us automatically?
[18:31] <sergiusens> jdstrand: they have a task open (mentioned ^^)
[18:31] <jdstrand> ok
[18:32] <jdstrand> and yes, I understnad that frameworks can't have forks-- I just didn't realize we had to do the manual request
[18:32] <jdstrand> but glad to hear that is being addressed too
[19:06] <mvo> Chipaca: just fyi https://github.com/xkbcommon/libxkbcommon/pull/25
[19:34] <tedg> jdstrand, I want to give my app access to /run/mir_socket, I don't see a cap for that, so do I just need to override for now?
[19:44] <carif_> just confirming: if I were to install Ubuntu Core, I would get the same bits as Snappy Ubuntu core, but I'm using the debian packaging system, not snappy
[19:45] <carif_> also, the file layout will be somewhat different because snappy operates a little differently. So I have /apps/**, I can have multiple versions installed, one of them being current and I can revert back to some prior version if I so choose
[19:47] <carif_> the phone is somewhat different in that I run images on a device, say a nexus 4/7/10 and I use adb to push the images to the device and then ubuntu-device-flash to update it
[19:48] <tedg> The phone and snappy are both image based, and ubuntu-core is basically the same, there are minor differences in the packages installed.
[19:48] <jdstrand> tedg: there should be a mir_client policy group provided by the mir framework
[19:48] <jdstrand> tedg: depend on the mir framework, then use mir_client
[19:49] <tedg> Ah, it's in /var
[19:49] <tedg> jdstrand, Thanks :-)
[19:49] <jdstrand> np
[19:49] <carif_> those packages are called "clicks" but clicks have been renamed to "snaps"
[19:49] <carif_> tedg, ^^^ tar baby
[19:50] <jdstrand> tedg: fyi, 'snappy-security list -V ubuntu-core' will show you what policy is available currently on the system
[19:50] <carif_> will the phone eventually install its apps in /apps? etc?
[19:51] <tedg> jdstrand, Oh, that's good to know. I just used "find" :-)
[19:51] <jdstrand> find will work too :)
[19:51] <tedg> carif_, Yes, in time phone applications will be snaps and the phone will be based on Snappy.
[19:51] <carif_> tedg, ty
[19:52] <tedg> jdstrand, Not if you start it in /usr …
[19:53] <jdstrand> hehe, no
[19:55] <carif_> tedg, when that transition happens will the phone utilities like ubuntu-device-flash be deprecated? So I will (say) snapp-remote a snap onto the phone?
[19:56]  * carif_ isn't sure he's asking the question correctly
[19:56] <tedg> carif_, No you can still use u-d-f to flash a phone from a raw state. But like it upgrades itself today, the snappy version will do the same.
[19:56] <tedg> carif_, You could use snappy remote to upgrade/install a snap as well if you wanted. More an additional feature.
[20:00] <carif_> vg, last question, in addition to finding snaps at the Ubuntu store, can I have my snappy device (kvm, etc) look for snaps on a local website? rather than using snap-remote to push a snap, I've like to do 'snappy install mikey' and have it find the snap on some local website
[20:00] <carif_> tedg, ^^^ ... then I'll let you get back to work
[20:02] <tedg> carif_, We're not going to support that out of the box, we want to do a lot with the store that isn't just "download a file" to make the updates smarter and faster. It's open source, and your device, and all that, but we'd really like people to put things in the store.
[20:03] <tedg> Clearly you could write a shell script to do it if you wanted pretty easily.
[20:03] <carif_> tedg, thanks dude
[20:03] <tedg> There's also a ton of work going into the store so that you can have private stores and things like that.
[20:21] <tedg> kgunn, I have Mir snap1, but I don't think that has the seccomp with the socketpair() in it, is there a more up-to-date snap?
[20:24] <kgunn> tedg: i'm just now uploading actually
[20:24] <rsalveti> tedg: mind giving a hand with some reviews? https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/core/+activereviews is quite a big list
[20:25] <kgunn> tedg: but, yes y;day (i think) i took that change in from jamie
[20:25] <tedg> kgunn, Upload faster! ;-)
[20:26] <tedg> rsalveti, Sure, I'll give them a try. Still feel a bit like the student though :-)
[20:26] <kgunn> tedg: actually...i just cancelled, gonna pull fresh and rebuild to make darn sure it's the right one
[20:26] <rsalveti> tedg: :-)
[21:10] <kgunn> rsalveti: so who is Mr. snappy store ?
[21:10] <rsalveti> beuno: ^
[21:10] <rsalveti> he's the store itself
[21:10] <kgunn> lol
[21:11] <beuno> I cp software into people's phone on demand
[21:11] <kgunn> so i've got a new mir snap....and i altered the version to be "1.1" from "snap1"...so dropping the "snap"
[21:11] <kgunn> and it no likie
[21:11] <tedg> Because we love beuno we wrote snappy-remote to make his life easier.
[21:11] <beuno> kgunn, it uses debian rules for versioning (for now)
[21:11] <tedg> No more hand copying
[21:12] <kgunn> ug, so i have to live with snap in the version string?
[21:12] <beuno> you just want me out of a job
[21:12] <beuno> kgunn, not really, you just need to make it newer from a debian versioning POV
[21:12] <beuno> not sure what a character to integer path is
[21:14] <beuno> kgunn, that will change in the next month or two
[21:14] <kgunn> k, for now will just live with "snap" there....
[21:15] <beuno> you'll be able to throw whatever you want as a version, and it'll do updates based on internal revision numbers
[21:15] <beuno> but not yet, because phones use that to figure out if it's newer or not
[21:55] <carif_> how long does it take for ubuntu-device-flash to update a device? And do I need need to "approve" the update on the device itself or is it just an adp think on my laptop?


[15:07] <bardyr> Hardy is starting to move now :D
[15:08] <Tm_T> moving out of the window?
[15:09] <bardyr> nope, but updates are coming in regularly and update-manager knows what hardy is
[15:10] <nanonyme> iinteresting
[15:10] <bardyr> now i just need my new kernel
[15:11] <nanonyme> i hadn't noticed the next round had started. going to be interesting since bcm43xx didn't yet make stable enough state for gutsy for me
[15:11] <Pici> Okay, I'll upgrade all my production systems then
[15:11] <bardyr> nanonyme, bcm43xx is dropped
[15:11] <nanonyme> hmm?
[15:11] <nanonyme> why?
[15:11] <bardyr> nanonyme, say hello to b4, or whats its called,
[15:11] <nanonyme> oh, confusing
[15:11] <bardyr> nanonyme, just merged in the 2.6.24 kernel
[15:12] <bardyr> it should be much better then bcm43xx
[15:12] <nanonyme> ah, cool. i was already shocked that i'd lose the support altogether. i have ppc laptop so ndiswrapper wasn't a choice at any point
[15:13] <bardyr> does ndiswrapper not support ppc?
[15:14] <bardyr> and the bcm43xx seemed to work in feisty
[15:14] <nanonyme> ndiswrapper requires an x86-based cpu
[15:15] <nanonyme> yeah, well. bcm43xx "worked" for me. it seemed to scan everything nice and fine but couldn't join networks
[15:16] <nanonyme> anyway, bbl. will upgrade my laptop at home to hardy. i only use it for watching movies and remote control for a server anyway :)
[15:16] <nanonyme> off from work ->
[17:27] <nanonyme> hmm, now that i'm at home i'm a bit afraid of trying hardy
[17:27] <bardyr> heh
[17:27] <nanonyme> maybe i could install it in a chroot?
[17:27] <bardyr> nanonyme, im running it on a production machine ;)
[17:28] <nanonyme> yeah, but there's always the risk that stuff like X stops working altogether
[17:28] <bardyr> yes
[17:28] <bardyr> and it will probably do
[17:28] <nanonyme> heh
[17:33] <nanonyme> anyway, in a chroot it would probably be safe
[17:33] <nanonyme> except
[17:34] <nanonyme> just remembered the kernel thing....
[17:35] <nanonyme> i mean, i can rmmod and insmod whenever i want to but there would be problems with drivers :/
[17:35] <nanonyme> erm, because of the kernel version difference
[17:35] <nanonyme> (possibly)
[17:55] <nanonyme> hmm
[17:56] <nanonyme> the fact that xorg-server-video-ati is not installable frightened me enough that i decided against trying out hardy at least outside a chroot...
[18:03] <hydrogen> thats probably a good thing.
[18:04] <_Shade_> hi there
[18:05] <_Shade_> how's hardy doing by the way? :)
[18:13] <crdlb> exactly how you'd expect a pre-alpha to work :)
[18:13] <_Shade_> crdlb: yeah, yeah... still long way to go
[20:16] <savvas> doesn anyone have the link for the hardy goals?
[20:37] <bardyr> !info linux-image-generic
[20:37] <ubotu> linux-image-generic: Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>.21 (gutsy), package size 24 kB, installed size 52 kB